# Snuffles with rabbits?!?! Help?!



## Donkeygirl (May 13, 2012)

*Okay, so I bought a new rabbit...she got snuffles and spread it to my herd. My herd being very healthy, are fine and got over it without medication. My questions are...how long till snuffle goes away in like grass and cages? I have them in a little shed and they all graze in grass all day and go into there shed at night. So, the snuffle bunny was in the grass grazing...how do I disinfect the grass or how long should I wait? And the shed? How to disinfect a wood shed?
Also, I heard once a rabbit gets snuffles, they will always have snuffles and spread it to weaker rabbits.....is this true? Does this mean I can never put my now healthy rabbits with other rabbits?!?!
Advice?!
Thanks in advance!!! Please help?!*


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## KEW_Farms (Nov 25, 2011)

Pardon my ignorance, but what are snuffles?


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Snuffles is an upper respiratory infection. It is accompanied by white snot, sneezing, crusty paws. It also is the same bacteria that contributes to wry neck and conjunctivitis (weepy eye). Snuffles is ultra contagious and there is no cure. You can SUPRESS the snuffles bacteria, but you cannot kill it.

The actual name is pasturella. Kind of stupid that you seemingly cannot kill a bacteria, but it is what it is. 

OP, if you truly had herd wide snuffles and have taken measures to supress the bacteria, just be aware, that your animals are now carriers. Any stressful event, and could be something as simple as a terrible storm or having babies, could encourage the bacteria to resurface. 

Snuffles is so contagoius, if I have snuffles appear, which happens occasionally, unless the animal is pregnant, I put it down. If or some reason I cannot, it goes into immediate quarantine, and I put it down at the earliest possible time. 

I am very careful in those cases to feed that animal last, sanitize my hands, and use different equipment. A rabbit sneeze in a direct line can travel 6 feet. Equipment that housed snuffles animals can be washed and sanitized and left in direct sun for a week. Snuffles lives where it is moist, but cannot survive very long on dry metal sitting in the sun.

Whenever you buy a new rabbit, you should keep it in quarantine for 30 days. It can take a week or two to show up, post purchase.


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## freeb (Jul 25, 2009)

snuffles never goes away, sorry


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## littlequail (Aug 5, 2011)

cull, but to be Blunt "kill" is the word i would use...had a Small outbreak with a buck..I caged him up and moved him out far away from everyone else.....but it was to late by the next day it already got to my doe... both had to be Killed... and the doe was my favorite rabbit i ever had  brings back Horrible memories...Never had a out break again.


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## Donkeygirl (May 13, 2012)

Thanks everyone. This helped. I have a very small herd. But are you saying that I should kill my whole herd? Because I was getting new rabbits this week and of course I am not going to put them any where near the snuffle rabbits but, to be safe I should kill my whole herd?  Drat. 

Also, can you eat rabbits with snuffles or...?


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## Pat Lamar (Jun 19, 2002)

There are two trains of thought regarding Pasteurella Multocida. The most common and logical is that ALL rabbits harbor P. Multocida... it just lays dormant and doesn't become evident until the rabbit is stressed. One can buy Pasteurella-free rabbits from a laboratory, but they would need to be kept in stringent laboratory-type sanitation (sterile) in order to remain Pasteurella free. Contact with other rabbits destroys the Pasteurella-free status.

Pasteurella is deemed "incurable" because it is made up of a variety of bacteria, and which can vary from rabbit to rabbit. Each individual bacteria would need to be identified and treated, thus making the task pretty close to impossible and horrendously expensive. The "symptoms" can be treated, but not cured. 

Pat Lamar


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## KEW_Farms (Nov 25, 2011)

How do you differentiate snuffles from anything else? The reason I am asking is because, when I received my buck and doe from our local breader the doe had some yellow-greenish snot and was sneezing a lot. I see come up now and again, but I haven't really seen it spread to the other rabbits. Also, when they do get snuffles, do you have to sanitize the cages, if so...how?


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## Pat Lamar (Jun 19, 2002)

Yellow-greenish and/or a white goopy discharge is Pasteurella. A clear discharge is most likely just allergies.

Scrub the cages with bleach water (1 part bleach to 10 parts or less of water) and allow to sun dry.

Pat Lamar


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## KEW_Farms (Nov 25, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback Pat! I've had my rabbits for a year and a half not but haven't noticed anything wrong with any of them. How do I know if I should be concerned? I'll send the breeder an e-mail as well, as I brought the runny crusty nose of the one rabbit to his attention. This is a little frustrating since we just had our first litter.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

Pat Lamar said:


> There are two trains of thought regarding Pasteurella Multocida. The most common and logical is that ALL rabbits harbor P. Multocida... it just lays dormant and doesn't become evident until the rabbit is stressed. One can buy Pasteurella-free rabbits from a laboratory, but they would need to be kept in stringent laboratory-type sanitation (sterile) in order to remain Pasteurella free. Contact with other rabbits destroys the Pasteurella-free status.
> 
> Pasteurella is deemed "incurable" because it is made up of a variety of bacteria, and which can vary from rabbit to rabbit. Each individual bacteria would need to be identified and treated, thus making the task pretty close to impossible and horrendously expensive. The "symptoms" can be treated, but not cured.
> 
> Pat Lamar


dang, I really need to heed the advice to quarantine new rabbits...


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## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

I burn my cags reguraly, to keep hair collection on cages down, trying to prevent earmites and such does this keep the cages clean enough or do I also need to bleach and sun dry?


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

If you have a goodly number and they all 'got better', it may not be Pasteurella. One would assume the weaker get worse or keep symptoms and the stronger get better... but for them to all get better seems unlikely with such a contagious, hard to treat disease. Usually animals keep snotty noses/eyes and eventually develop large bodily abscesses as well. 

When I had Pasteurella like symptoms in my herd, I talked to my vet. He told me to not sell anything, but if I wanted to keep something back to keep it isolated and see if it does get better. I kept 3 does, and all of them got better. They went into my breeding program no problem. If it was Pasteurella, I'm breeding in strong genetics able to fight it off. 

I torched the growout pen that the symptomatic buns were in, and sprayed down with a veterinary disinfectant at least twice. I let it set in the sun for a while, too. Pasteurella is fastidious, and doesn't live long outside of the body, especially in dry conditions. 

The only way to know for sure is to do a nasal swab of a symptomatic animal and get it cultured. It's rather costly for your average backyard breeder.


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## Pat Lamar (Jun 19, 2002)

mygoat said:


> If you have a goodly number and they all 'got better', it may not be Pasteurella.


Sorry, mygoat, but I do have to disagree with this statement. Remember... Pasteurella becomes evident when the animal is under stress. When it calms down, the symptoms will disappear and not reappear until it is stressed, again. If a strange dog upset the entire rabbitry, they would likely "all get better" after the dog was removed. Of course, there are more serious incidences resulting in abcesses, etc., and mostly depending upon the individual rabbits' hardiness and immune system.. or lack of. Persistant culling on health problems will result in a hardy and disease-resistant herd.

Pat Lamar


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## snowbunny_num33 (May 11, 2012)

Pat has good solid advice regarding this disease. I also use a mixture 1 part hydrogen peroxide to three parts water and spray my cages down... also culling strictly. It seem it is always my best show quality animals that come down with it and it is a bear to get rid of. I have found that some particular antibiotics have completely cleared it (no reoccurance even under stress for the last two years) in two particular animals but I don't recommend antibiotic use as it leads to resistance if you don't closely adhere to all particularities and there are too many different strains. Just better to cull immediately. There are other non-pasturella bacteria that causes snuffles/pneumonia as well but that is the main one.


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## scpankow (Mar 31, 2011)

snowbunny_num33 said:


> Pat has good solid advice regarding this disease. I also use a mixture 1 part hydrogen peroxide to three parts water and spray my cages down... also culling strictly. It seem it is always my best show quality animals that come down with it and it is a bear to get rid of. I have found that some particular antibiotics have completely cleared it (no reoccurance even under stress for the last two years) in two particular animals but I don't recommend antibiotic use as it leads to resistance if you don't closely adhere to all particularities and there are too many different strains. Just better to cull immediately. There are other non-pasturella bacteria that causes snuffles/pneumonia as well but that is the main one.


Hydrogen peroxide is not a good disinfectant. Vinegar would work better, or bleach or Vanodine.

Ok, couple of clarifications....

*Pasteurella Multocida* is the bacteria
*"Pasteurellosis"* is the disease
*"snuffles" *should mean pasteurellosis, but many people use it for any upper respiratory issue they see. This could be bordatella (an easily treatable infection) or allergies. 
There is not a CURE for pasteurellosis besides death. ABX can be used, but it only suppresses the symptoms since the bacteria continue to live in the nasal passages and sinus cavities where there is little blood supply and so the ABX does not get there. Any kits kept from a mom with pasteurella would need to be isolated until they reach breeding age and are bred and kindle. The stress of kindling can trigger a latent infection to spring to life. 

I lost 24 rabbits to P. Multocida...my whole herd...one at a time while I "treated" and tried to develop a resistant herd....they all came down with it, one by one. Even the kits all developed symptoms by 12wks. Since then, I don't play around with it. If have white snot, you are gone. If you sneeze and I cannot readily identify why, you are isolated until either culled or returned to the herd. All new rabbits are isolated for 4wks minimum.


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## Petra (Jul 31, 2010)

Hi,
One of my does seems to have a case of snuffles.
She had been in a cage separate from the other bunnies, but in a tower situation. When she developed the snotty nose and weepy eye I took her out of it and inside.We are in winter now, and I figured "commonsense" would suggest that not having to waste energy to keep warm might help her body to recover. She's lively, doesn't want to stay in the container, her condition seems to go up and down. 
Having read the other comments I assume that the rest of the girls will have it too, but as they are happy and not bothered about anything it hasn't shown.
The young ones are 11 wks and I'm intending to keep them for another4-6 weeks, depending on their weight gain.

And now the big question:
If they don't show any symptoms of being ill by then, will they be safe to eat?

TIA


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Snuffles doesn't not affect the edibility of the meat.


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## Falls-Acre (May 13, 2009)

Pasturella, the primary cause of 'snuffles' is widespread, highly contagious, and nearly always result in the death of the animal afflicted. They don't die from the bacteria, they die from either suffocation (blocked nostrils from excessive dried snot) or from pneumonia. Generally, once full symptoms have become apparent, there is very little that can be done to save them. If you know your herd has been exposed, I would recommend euthanizing the original carrier, then isolate any who so much as sneeze. Look for dried stuff on the paws (from wiping their nose). That's usually a better indicator than sneezing. Though excess sneezing would also trouble me.

Rabbits can and do live long lives carrying this bacteria, and in truth many of your animals probably already carry some of it with them. An epidemic can occur when their immune system is compromised, usually by a stressful environment (excessively filthy surroundings, etc). The disease can be forced into remission, but it will shorten the lifespan of the animal.

Be aware, there is another bacteria called Bordetella that sometimes emulates the symptoms of snuffles, but can be quite successfully treated with antibiotics. When facing a herd-wide eruption of full-blown snuffles symptoms, I strongly recommend consulting a veterinarian, who can titer your animals and help you eradicate the disease, hopefully with minimal losses.


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## redneckswife (May 2, 2013)

Disagree that the illness can be in remission. Your animal will always have snuffles..just the symptoms are being treated, so it's a mask. The animal will never be cured...just asymptomatic. 

But agree with most of what Falls-Acre says. Especially to check the front legs...

Pregnancy can even be considered stress to a rabbit that is a carrier, I would cull if I strongly believe I had this issue...it's better than losing a hole herd.


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