# Pretty good $120 pistol



## ergo (Aug 15, 2017)

Phoenix Arms HP22. The 5" barreled variant groups about 2" at 25 yds, so it's adequate for pests around the farm. With the 3" barrel in place, the gun is less than 6.5" long, about like a .38 snub, and it weighs just 20 ozs. So the 5" version weighs a couple of ozs more, and is the length of a 1911 gov't model.

The thumb safety of the HP22 is made of pot metal, so dont trust it. Just use your thumb to cock and un-cock the hammer. I found the rear sight to be non-reliable about staying where I "adjusted" it, so I used LocTite on it. There's YouTube vids about altering it to disengage the more egregious "safety" bs that's designed into it. The barrel interchange system is so solid/self adjusting, that it's a stroke of genius!

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=phoenix+arms+hp22+modifications


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I looked at those as a trap line gun , they looked interesting I though it might be more accurate than my 1950s revolver that I used which is just plan sloppy and minute of beer can at 30 feet but I never did buy one.

instead I picked up a little youth 22 rifle for 50 dollars used , so that I can take shots of opportunity on squirrel or whatever else looks tasty much further , I will give the little rifle a try for a while and see how I like it.

it's hard to want to spend much time skinning a 2 dollar **** so if I go back to a pistol I might well just use a 38 , with my own cast bullets it costs nearly the same as 22 ammo to reload it and the brass never runs off on me


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## ergo (Aug 15, 2017)

a trapped critter is best pinned down with a stick, held in place with your feet/body weight, and then a wire garrote used on his neck. I'd never bother to lug around a rifle for that. Most of the year, game animals are not legal to shoot, anyway, including a whole lot of the legal trapping season. The OP was more for those who dont already have a gun, or at least, not a pistol. The 5" barrel is not hard to cut to 4" and thread for a sound suppressor, either.  If you go at it right, the OAL of the package is just 10". If you know to hold-shut the slide with your off hand thumb as you fire, it can be quieter than a fart. 

If you use CB caps in the un-suppressed 5" variant, the firing signature wont be noticed at more than 1/4 mile, on a cold, silent night, on open flat terrain, no wind. Under normal conditions, wooded hills, a bit damp, warm temps, a bit of wind, the distance will be halved. Much of the time, on small game, one rd of CB .22 ammo suffices. I've taken several squirrels with it, quite a few rabbits and pigeons, even a starling or 2 has made the mistake of letting me sneak in to 10m or less. Baiting them makes it easy, if you're inside of a building, firing out of the window.  Anyone can hit with a rifle, so doing so hasn't interested me since my teens.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

ergo said:


> The 5" barrel is not hard to cut to 4" and thread for a sound suppressor, either.


Yeah, because everyone wants a suppressed $120 .22 pistol.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

a sound suppressor is a 200 dollar tax stamp to keep within the law with perhaps the exception of Kansas which is still being decided in the courts. and not available at all in several states.

if noise signature is a concern CCI quiet ammo works well inside or to 25 yards for rabbits and squirrel on head and neck shots but not good out at 50 yards at least with the brick I am working on about 1 in 7 rounds seems to have a increased drop so while 6 of 7 rounds are predictable on average 1 is not and will fall off a rabbit head and neck size target beyond 25 yards , while at 25 yards this only represents about a 1/2-3/4 inch distortion of the the group at 50 it is about 3 inches.
on 50 rounds I would have a group going at about an inch from the bench at 50 yards , then have a round drop about 3 inches keep shooting , holding my group and have another round fall down overlapping the first to go 3 inches low so while they seem consistent you have no way of knowing if your going to get a low round or not , while most of them are not enough are that the hit is a bit of a gamble.

I like to eat rabbit and squirrel but they are not part of our trapping , our trapping season however runs at the same time as rabbit season and most of squirrel season

the small youth rifle while heavier than a pistol , it represents just more than 1/3 of the cost while giving better opportunity shots , when loaded with regular hi-velocity small game ammo a 50 or 70 yard rabbit would be doable.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> a sound suppressor is a 200 dollar tax stamp to keep within the law with perhaps the exception of Kansas which is still being decided in the courts. and not available at all in several states.
> 
> if noise signature is a concern CCI quiet ammo works well inside or to 25 yards for rabbits and squirrel on head and neck shots but not good out at 50 yards at least with the brick I am working on about 1 in 7 rounds seems to have a increased drop so while 6 of 7 rounds are predictable on average 1 is not and will fall off a rabbit head and neck size target beyond 25 yards , while at 25 yards this only represents about a 1/2-3/4 inch distortion of the the group at 50 it is about 3 inches.
> on 50 rounds I would have a group going at about an inch from the bench at 50 yards , then have a round drop about 3 inches keep shooting , holding my group and have another round fall down overlapping the first to go 3 inches low so while they seem consistent you have no way of knowing if your going to get a low round or not , while most of them are not enough are that the hit is a bit of a gamble.
> ...


What's going on in Kansas?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> What's going on in Kansas?


They want to be able to ignore Federal law for NFA items produced totally in their state and not "affecting *interstate* commerce".


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They want to be able to ignore Federal law for NFA items produced totally in their state and not "affecting *interstate* commerce".


they are testing it as a states rights issue, since the goverment taxes it based on it being interstate commerce , personally I would be all in favor of you can build your own but never sell it if it would make is so I didn't have to pay a 200 dollar tax one every one.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

I like that idea. States did it with pot why not suppressors and SBRs. Thanks for the info.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> I like that idea. States did it with pot why not suppressors and SBRs. Thanks for the info.


exactly if you can legalize an Illegal substance and grow , refine and sell it in state it would only make sence it should hold for Arms , Arms are constitutionally protected and drugs are not.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Y'all know you are talking about a warned over Jennings or Raven..... Right?
Quote>
Phoenix Arms is a firearms manufacturer established in 1992. A predecessor company owned by George Jennings, Raven Arms, burned down in 1991, after which Jennings retired and sold his designs to Phoenix. Wikipedia
Quote<


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

yes part of why I never got around to trying one , you know what they say about quality , when you buy quality you only cry once.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> yes part of why I never got around to trying one , you know what they say about quality , when you buy quality you only cry once.


That ain't no lie!


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Had a Sporting goods store was going out of business 1980's.
Bought a Jennings .22 lr for like $40 bucks.....
Was my hunting tuck in pocket gun..Illegal in several way.......But I had it anyway. 
Wisconsin CC new laws made a of of people legal..

Anyway.....actually shot pretty good, wasn't much for sights...was a "point your finger and fire", pistol.
Next door to my "Place"...was a dump in the ravine...most all farms have or had one....so bottle shooting was kinda fun....But now wish I hadn't done it....

Then I bought that parcel....and now have a ravine full of broken glass, that I have been cleaning up.....LOL
Oh well...


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> That ain't no lie!


for a 22 pistol I went with a Ruger MKIII 22/45 target and run a Vortex Venom micro dot and we shoot it out to 100 meters regularly for 22 pistol silhouettes , I could take it on the trap line and I may in good weather but the little bolt gun is much easier to clean if I get it soaking wet , already nothing to look at , low cost , my son can use it for opportunity hunting (have to be 18 to hunt with a pistol in WI) 

half my trapping is in a city park by permit and I can not use a gun at all so I am familiar with other ways to dispatch.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I bought my DD a Jennings auto 22 or 25. It always jammed. Gunsmith said to expect that from them.


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## catalekid (Jan 23, 2011)

Firearms are like most things in life. You get exactly what you pay for. That being said, sometimes $120 is all a person can afford for a handgun.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

catalekid said:


> Firearms are like most things in life. You get exactly what you pay for. That being said, sometimes $120 is all a person can afford for a handgun.


yes sometimes it is , then a used Hi-point may be the way to go so you can send it in and have them go over it with their clean and warranty policy.

but you can sure get a whole lot more gun if you can get 200 dollars together 

new LCP for 199 are available , as are Taurus PT111 , and SCCY CPX-2, Diamond back DB9


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

I sold several Jennings 22 pistols back in the day. Keep them clean, use a bit of Rem oil, and stick with CCI Stingers. For what they were, they were serviceable firearms for the money paid. IIRC, I used to get about $65 for one.

Still talking pot metal, but for just a few dollars more, the Intratek 25 was a better pistol than the Jennings. Don't think I ever had one of those come back.


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## Lookin4GoodLife (Oct 14, 2013)

hunter63 said:


> Then I bought that parcel....and now have a ravine full of broken glass, that I have been cleaning up.....LOL
> Oh well...


Live and learn.  I have two of these Phoenix pistols and I love them. That being said, yeah, they're cheap pieces of cr**. I've had the pin holding the extractor fall out of one of them several times and the last time I lost the extractor, so I've got to order some parts. Yep, I should have done something about it when I put it back. They also have a reputation for the frame cracking which is one of the reasons they recommend standard velocity ammo. Supposedly they do a good job of honoring their warranties, even if it might take a while. Yeah, the safeties are funky and I don't use them, but I don't carry the pistols around, we just use them for plinking on the range. I like them, but I will get them both in good working order and sell them as I bought them in my "experimental stage".


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> for a 22 pistol I went with a Ruger MKIII 22/45 target and run a Vortex Venom micro dot and we shoot it out to 100 meters regularly for 22 pistol silhouettes , I could take it on the trap line and I may in good weather but the little bolt gun is much easier to clean if I get it soaking wet , already nothing to look at , low cost , my son can use it for opportunity hunting (have to be 18 to hunt with a pistol in WI)
> 
> half my trapping is in a city park by permit and I can not use a gun at all so I am familiar with other ways to dispatch.


LOL...Just saw this......I gonna guess you have just described a pistol that is 5 times more money...but goes bang the in same way....

Of course that where the comparison stops.......
I would not toss that piece in the river....but wouldn't hesitate to toss that Phoenix Arms HP22.

Just saying.....


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

a fair question ,I should explain a new Ruger is just a touch less than 3x a new phoenix , but I think you are getting a LOT more gun and more options , really a lot of options , the Ruger MK family is probably the most customized 22 pistol in existence if there is a sport that uses 22lr pistols you can bet that someone is shooting a MK series in that. 

if your sole need for a gun is to go bang , a lot will do that for you.
I had a 22 that as sloppy an old as it is still went bang every time , the ejector handle is busted off , the grips epoxied from the inside and in order to get it working when I got it 22 years ago I had to have a smith make a small part for it , I didn't pay much for it , less than a Pheniox and I enjoyed shooting it.
but it had limitations 

all over the trapping forum guys debate trap line guns , a lot will say the 159 dollar heritage arms single action is good enough and reasonable cost after all your using it at a few feet
others will point out that if you buy the ruger single six you will have spend twice the coin but you won't regret it they have carried theirs for 30 years of trapping and can use it to take small game animals of opportunity. but maybe more importantly if they break something on that gun one phone call and the part is in the mail.

buying a cheap gun vs a gun of good value 

a cheap gun goes bang , it does it for some length of time or number of rounds and your mileage may vary but then one day it stops , and it is generally done , basically a throw away 

but if you buy a gun of good value , it may cost more up front , but you can do more with it , you can get parts , and you can get accessories , if it is of great popularity , and great value you can get parts to make that gun do anything you could want it to do within the limitations of the round. 
ergonomics are important , they help to let you enjoy the gun and shoot to your potential 


who is out more the guy who spends 120 dollars on a gun then has to pay a smith if he can find one who will work on them to do a trigger job , no one has ever asked for a trigger job on said gun so the smith has to make the fixture for it and 2 hundred later has a 320 dollar gun that is worth 50-75 

or the guy who buys the more expensive Ruger MKIII at 345.00 and puts an 8 dollar MKII hammer bushing in it to clean up the trigger , he has the option of about 7 different drop in triggers if he want to take it further , sights by several companies , the ability to mount optics and a barrel that will allow him to shoot pistol silhouettes at 100 meters . and if he decides he wants to try something else can list it for sale for 300 and have 3 Ben Franklin in his hand a few days later 


I think if you look back the OP lists a number of modification he did to make it shoot the way he wanted , I removed my gun from the box cleaned it , lubed it and started shooting on par with the OPs gun.


when people ask me what to buy with any number of items from appliances , to power tools , chain saws , tractors , I tell them to go parts shopping , if they ask about a handgun I often say go holster and parts shopping. what are parts and service worth?


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

I guess you missed the..... LOL....part.
Was not a put down.
Just that there is no comparison.

Have a couple stock Ruger's Mrk III and a 22/45.....


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

i saw the LOL part but I guess I felt like others who didn't know the difference might benefit form the explanation.


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## randyt (Aug 16, 2017)

I use a stevens tip-up in 22 lr for a trapline gun, didn't realize there were other options LOL


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

They're not $120, but Taurus has been running some very good rebates on very serviciable handguns. Might want to do a little checking...


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Jolly said:


> They're not $120, but Taurus has been running some very good rebates on very serviciable handguns. Might want to do a little checking...


I have seen those sales with mail in rebate a 38spl for 159 dollars plus what ever fees you need to pay to pick it up


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

Just asked my wife about going from .380 to .22?

It wasn't nice what she said.

big rockpile


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

with the number of duds I have been experiencing my self and as an instructor with 22 lately I would not want to switch from center-fire to rim fire just from a reliability issue not even talking energy and penitration.

when you start watching 5000 rounds a day go down range and dealing with the clearly struck rimfires that didn't go off , I was estimating 1 in 650 this spring and after my last appleseed I am thinking 1 in every 325 maybe worse and across several different brands and a dozen rifles and that is forgetting about the guns that seem to be ammo picky

when it is just practice I typically turn then 90 degreese and put them back in the magazine and 50% of the time the do go , but half don't even on a second strike.

when someone is shooting for a qualifying score in a timed relay I try and grab them a fresh round and put it in their spare mag so that if they have the time they can load it and the duds go in the dud box

everyone who can should be trying to get into proven self defense rounds if police are not carrying it you might want to ask yourself why you are


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I have seen those sales with mail in rebate a 38spl for 159 dollars plus what ever fees you need to pay to pick it up


Or, if you don't want the rebate and prefer a single-stack, concealable 9, $183 shipped.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...rus+Pistols/Taurus+709FS+PT709+Slim+7+1+9mm+3


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

With suppressors having been brought up, it should be interesting to see what happens if the NFA sees the Supreme Court again. It was tested once in the 1930s. The short version is that an itinerant moonshiner was charged for possession of a short-barreled shotgun. The federal court system held that he was not guilty by virtue of the law being an unconstitutional infringement on his rights. The final appeal to the FDR-packed Supreme Court found the government appealing the overturn of the original conviction and the judgment against the law itself against the defendant in absentia after he was dead, which is why we still have this aberrant law.


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