# Guard against snakes?



## Undeaddiva (May 28, 2017)

I apologize if this is hidden somewhere in the archives!!!
Any suggestions for getting snakes out of bird (chickens, ducks, geese eventually) pens and nests, and rabbits etc? I know cats can do a fair job, some terriers too though im sure they want to go after the birds and bunnies if not watched and trained. 
Our farm was all but abandoned for almost 3 years so the populations of many species have taken up residence. The black snakes (locally called Cow suckers) dont bother me in the bottom barn as they keep out rodents and wont bother horses, sheep and goats. On the hilltop where our house and birds will be I am concerned about losses and safety of our children (6 and 3).
My question is this. How do i discourage all "bad" snakes on my hilltop (get them out and keep them out) and not push the black snakes out of our lower barn and paddocks? Theres about 9 or 10 acres between the 2 structures, and its all paddock and new growth forest (cedars that we plan to clear a lot of)
Thanks in advance!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Plastic mesh "deer netting" loosely rolled and laid along the walls will entangle snakes, allowing them to be moved or killed.

There are no guardian animals that will really help unless you can find a Mongoose.


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

Thank you BFF! I like that "deer net" idea. Here's some photos and commentary about it. I will be buying some at Amazon soon.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/deer-netting-works-great-for-snakes.346915/

I noticed that different types have different sized holes. I will need the biggest! These rattlesnakes are humongous.



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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Gonna check Amazon right now! Thanks BFF!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

CajunSunshine said:


> I will need the biggest!


I wouldn't go too big.
If they can get their head and the first third of the body through it should work.
They will try to force their way in, and will get stuck, and they won't be able to reverse because the mesh will catch on the back edge of the scales.

You may have to use some barriers to keep the birds out of it too.

Be VERY careful with any venomous snakes since they won't be happy.


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## SueBee (May 28, 2010)

I just saw a posting about using a minnow trap to catch snakes. Do a search and you will find several good sites for information. Good luck, we just found a baby copperhead in the garden it was dispatched with a knife.


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## Undeaddiva (May 28, 2017)

Thanks! 
I'm bringing in cats, when the farm was my parents they had no issues with snakes on the top of the hill because my mother also ran a cat rescue. With numerous cats we never saw a snake one. I'd willingly release snakes caught in the mesh if they were black snakes or non venomous. Copperhead and water mocs can move out please and thanks!


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## ridgerunner1965 (Apr 13, 2013)

i used to have lots of copperheads here.actually killed 4 of them in the crappy trailer i lived in before building my house.

i found once i cleared off a lot over the overgrown brush and mowed wider areas around the house and buildings.,got a cat that kills tons of rodents and cleaned up anything laying on the ground like old lumber and barn tin,i rarely see them now.

before i was killing maybe 4 or 5 coppers a year,now maybe 1 every 3 to 5 years or so.

i have a huge black snake that lives in one of my sheds.i dont bother him but he will startle me once in awhile.


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## chaossmurf (Jan 6, 2017)

the blacksnakes should do a number on the smaller snakes & a good hot frypan works wonders on the larger snakes
as for the netting idea --is suggest a couple diferent sizes larger on the outter edges then progressively smaller on inside ---that way the bigger ones don't just get ****-ed away by not being able to get themselves stuck  ---youl catch more that way & ya can always release the blacksnakes & fry the rest ----chickens will also eat snake & ya don't need to cook it --just kill it & toss it in  ---heck when we were kids one of the neighbors cats got eaten by our chickens ----no idea how that happened but can y imagine how embarrassed that cat musta been in heaven telling the other cats how he died 
yeah chickens killed me ---so what happened the 2nd time ..they caught me again----so what happened the 3rd time ....they caught me again --etc etc etc


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

I like the different sized netting idea.

As far as the frypan goes, the only snake that will go in mine is the rattlesnake which is good eating! The rest, not so much. Too fishy and muddy for my palate. No amount of Cajunizing will salvage that kind of nasty.


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## chaossmurf (Jan 6, 2017)

heheheh well I didnt say ya had to eat them all --eat what ya like & let the chickens have the rest & the ones to small to fry


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

Undeaddiva said:


> I apologize if this is hidden somewhere in the archives!!!
> Any suggestions for getting snakes out of bird (chickens, ducks, geese eventually) pens and nests, and rabbits etc? I know cats can do a fair job, some terriers too though im sure they want to go after the birds and bunnies if not watched and trained.
> Our farm was all but abandoned for almost 3 years so the populations of many species have taken up residence. The black snakes (locally called Cow suckers) dont bother me in the bottom barn as they keep out rodents and wont bother horses, sheep and goats. On the hilltop where our house and birds will be I am concerned about losses and safety of our children (6 and 3).
> My question is this. How do i discourage all "bad" snakes on my hilltop (get them out and keep them out) and not push the black snakes out of our lower barn and paddocks? Theres about 9 or 10 acres between the 2 structures, and its all paddock and new growth forest (cedars that we plan to clear a lot of)
> Thanks in advance!


IDK about keeping only certain snakes around. I do reccommend turkeys for snake control, but they don't discriminate between species.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Undeaddiva said:


> I'd willingly release snakes caught in the mesh if they were *black snakes* or non venomous


If you have poultry or rabbits, Rat Snakes can be a problem.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I know the rolled netting works as I've seen too many snake skeletons as well as skins in some I've got stored in the garden shed.

I, too have been giving some thought to snakes. There are a few very large black rat snakes here that I leave alone. They climb a lot. I've also seen other types with the only poisonous one being the copperhead; and it apparently prefers to stay low to the ground. (I'm pretty sure I had a den of snakes surviving the winters under my large chest freezer, which is kept in the barn because several of the copperheads appeared to have come from that direction. However, I closed up all around the bottom one winter after pouring about a cup of gasolene under this freezer. Have not seen a copperhead since.)

Been thinking though....if I could afford it....I'ld go around the parameter fencing (outside part) and put up a 2+ ft of treated plywood. Since copperheads apparently don't climb, that might just keep them out. At this time I'm relying on "Blacky" (what I named all the wonderful 6' long black rat snakes) and my Heavenly Father to keep those bad snakes off the place. And have not seen one now for over 3 yrs.


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## J-W_Vic (Feb 25, 2017)

Deer mesh is good -good advice about that but word of warning, don't wear buttons or anything that it will catch on
Diamond mesh is good.... will keep everything out.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

motdaugrnds said:


> However, I closed up all around the bottom one winter after pouring about a cup of gasolene under this freezer. Have not seen a copperhead since.)


Pouring flammable liquids around electric motors can have tragic results.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Yes Bearfootfarm. I am aware of that. This particular freezer is a very large one, sits on top of cinder blocks and the wiring is located in the back. Placed old towels to block all the back as well as the bottom of the other 3 sides. So no worry....


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## Undeaddiva (May 28, 2017)

I read some things about filling milk jugs with water and mothballs and venting the top to let the smell escape. This seems like an okay idea if proper judgement is used with placement of said jugs. Anyone tried it? If it works Im sure adjustments could be made to place a sturdier version around the house or coops without fear of spillage or, gawd forbid, something drinking it.
Thoughts?


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## Undeaddiva (May 28, 2017)

ShannonR said:


> IDK about keeping only certain snakes around. I do reccommend turkeys for snake control, but they don't discriminate between species.


I wont bring in domestic turkey, the property has a pretty healthy population of wild ones and i dont want to risk an escapee breeding into the local population (plus they are so tastey and i dont hafta worry about caring for them!) But I have considered Pilgrim geese and guineas!


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Undeaddiva said:


> I read some things about filling milk jugs with water and mothballs and venting the top to let the smell escape. This seems like an okay idea if proper judgement is used with placement of said jugs. Anyone tried it? If it works Im sure adjustments could be made to place a sturdier version around the house or coops without fear of spillage or, gawd forbid, something drinking it.
> Thoughts?


Mothballs will keep many snakes away, the only problem would be you have the smell of mothballs around.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Snakes don't have a sense of smell like ours, so I really don't think mothballs will have any effect on them.

They smell things by flicking their tongues to pick up odor molecules and then transfer them to a "Jacobson's organ" inside the mouth. 
If they don't want to smell something, they don't have to.



> *Vomeronasal organ*
> The vomeronasal organ (VNO), or the Jacobson's organ, is an auxiliary olfactory sense organ that is found in many animals. It lies close to the vomer and nasal bones. It was discovered by Frederik Ruysch prior to 1732 and later by Ludwig Jacobson in 1813. This organ is the sense organ involved in the flehmen response in mammals.





> *Jacobson organ in snakes*
> Withdrawing the tongue back into its mouth, the tips are inserted into the Jacobson's organ, and the snake's brain decodes the information. It's a 'sensory organ'. It basically takes the form of two 'pockets' in the roof of the snakes mouth. When the snake flicks out its tongue, microscopic scent particles stick to it.


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

The lady in this National Geographic video is named Sunshine, but I swear, y'all, this is NOT me. I would NOT have taken that snake down to the bridge; I would have turned it loose on my property, f'sure. Those black snake are our friends because they eat the things that are NOT our friends.


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ouserelease&utm_campaign=Content&sf86917300=1


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

You're correct, they don't have a sense of smell, but the 'taste' sense of mothballs will repel them. I've used it to keep Southern Black Racers away from my patio (we had a number of them at my property when I lived in FL). Unfortunately the smell of mothballs tended to keep me away from the patio also.
Didn't mind them on the property, just didn't want them next to the house (or inside through the patio door)


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

CajunSunshine said:


> Those black snake are our friends because they eat the things that are NOT our friends.


Here they are the ones that eat the most eggs and would kill my pigeons.

I saw one once that climbed an oak tree and took a baby Blue Jay out of a nest.
When the parents mobbed him, he dropped out of the tree with the bird in his mouth and carried it across the yard and under a barn.


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

Well then, a black snake wouldn't be your friend, but it is my friend.

Fortunately wild birds and their eggs are not their favorite food. (I'm sorry about your pigeons being easy meals for snakes in your area.) I am sure that the resident black snake has learned that because captive pigeons taste wonderful, so the wild birds on the property are on the menu. I also suspect your property must not have an abundance of the black snake's preferred food:

http://www.snake-removal.com/blackratsnake.html



> Black rat snakes normally eat any kind of rodent that is smaller than they are. This usually consists of small lizards, baby mice and small frogs. Older and larger black rat snakes will eat larger rodents, as well as consume other kinds of mammals. This may include chipmunks, moles and a large variety of mice and rats. *Sometimes, a black rat snake, if desperate, will eat bird eggs.*


The following article gives more important reasons why black snakes are our friends:

(from http://www.livingalongsidewildlife.com/2009/12/this-is-why-you-should-never-kill.html)

A picture is worth a thousand words:


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## Christopher McClung (May 1, 2017)

So I am not sure if you mentioned how bad the snake problem is but deer netting will just kill the snakes. If you start getting rid of all the snakes then you will be left with a rodent problem. I do have to kill the occasional snake from time to time, but I try not to. I have 7 acres and i find that my roosters will chase off snakes if not right out kill them. We have so many moles and mice that I really don't want to just eliminate them. Rat poison will kill your chickens more than a snake will. 
After saying all that have you tried mothballs. I have a few scattered around my brooder shed. I don't worry about the large birds. I brood 400 chicks a month from Feb thru Sept., and in 4 years have only lost 1 chick to a snake. Once a snake gets a taste they will keep coming back, so at that point the snake must die..LOL 
Snakes are the sharks of land animals, and that is a crying shame. They have such an important place in the farm/homestead ecosystem.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

It would be better to put rat poison into your farm/home ecosystem than moth balls. Moth balls have no real effectiveness on snakes, they will crawl right through them. They might give them cataracts and liver failure and kill them slowly, but drive them away, no.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Well, I noticed mouse droppings in my outside shop/storage/office/whatever building, so I caught a fair sized black snake and put him in there. 

Maybe you could sell your snakes to people who have mouse problems!!


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Because of pressure from varmints I must keep my birds in.

I also have a fence around my yard, which is good because my terrier is really keen on snakes, and if it were not for the fence he would go and seek them out, because he has gotten rid of all of the snakes in my yard. The down side of a terrier is that they WILL go hunting elsewhere: their prey drive Is too keen for them to stay home once the snakes are gone.


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## Lady89 (Feb 22, 2014)

The 2 things i found that keeps snakes at bay are rat dogs or ornery (preferably large) cats. The dog will need a LOT of training to not bother the chickens or rabbits. The cat should not try to go after adult chickens or rabbits they are to big, but can not be trusted with babies. If the chicks are in a brooder with a top or with mama this should not be a problem. i am also assuming that the rabbits are in hunches the cat can not get in.

I don't know if there is a way to only drive off some of the snakes. If it were me i would get a group of semi-wild cats. Lock them in a barn for a few days so they know were home is, feed well so they learn to like you, then let them drive off the snakes and take over the job of rodent control. With 9 or 10 acres if you feed the cats in the hill barn they may not feel the need to go down to the other barn, some cats wander far and wide and others stay close to home. Don't forget to spay and neuter or you will soon be over run.

i would also be shooting or as others have suggested taping snakes, cats are vary good at killing baby snakes and scaring off bigger snake but truly huge snakes are not put off by them at all.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Guineas. I used to have copperheads around our house every summer. I started raising Guineas and haven't had a snake since. I did kill a copperhead in one of my barn stalls last week though, so I know they are still aruond the perimeter buildings on the ranch. The barn is about 100 yards from the house, and just this week now my Guineas are hanging out down there, which means they are finding food. Might be a few less snakes at the barn


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## JoshuaM (Jul 8, 2014)

We don't have many venomous snakes in Canada (Mississauga Rattlesnakes, but they only have a small range) but our best snake killer on the farm is a 25 year old Appaloosa mare, she's the boss mare in the herd of 20 and she will attack and stomp to death any snake she sees, Horses are also extremely resistant to snake venom, I've heard many types of antivenom employ horses by injecting them with venom and then spinning off blood plasma as the horses blood is able to neutralize the venom


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I've lived on this 6 acres since 1995 and all this time have seen about five (5) "copperheads". Two were grown and trying to snuggle under the chicken house door IN THE DEAD OF WINTER (How they got there is still a mystery.). Two were crawling across the barn floor one "summer". One was coming down the drive from an old fallen shack up by the state road. [David killed all five of them.] 

All this time I've had guineas as well as large black rat snakes. Now whether or not guineas and "Blacky" (All have same name and are now considered part of the family here.) kill/eat copperheads I don't know as I've not seen them do so. (I read somewhere that black snakes are "social" and will den up with copperheads. Being mid-winter and having an idea as to where the "den" might be, I stopped the area up and poured 1/2 cup of gasoline in there. Have not seen a copperhead since. Have seen Blacky as they love to live in my loft snuggling midst the baled hay. Last winter saw three...yes 3...large skins that had been shed in the loft.)

Blacky does cause problems here, i.e. will eat eggs and even small fowl. I also think he tried to eat my grown Indian Runner (duck) recently who had been trying to nest IN THE GARDEN. Thus, I "snake proof" the brooder as one would "baby proof" a house. And I'm comfortable with Blacky's eating eggs. (My guineas free-range and lay dozens of eggs...for both human consumption as well as Blacky.) I've decided keeping Blacky around is worth the loss of eggs, though I do get disturbed when he harms my fowl....

[Recently saw Blacky (at least 6 ft long and a good 2" diameter) stretched out crawling across the barn floor with 3 baby goats standing around watching him. Not once did he try to harm them and he was quite beautiful. I also saw Blacky crawling out of the loft while I was up there working with the hay. It was obvious he was full of eggs (nest up there had been disturbed). He was so pretty crawling across the beam from the loft to the shed. He decided to sleep for days in the area of the rafters right above the door to the milking area. A bit nerve wrecking but we tolerated each other for quite awhile. LOL]


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