# Shooting about 20 minutes from me...



## Roadking

Ambush at State Police Barracks. Mostly a media blackout, but 2 officers wounded, one dead so far. Radio silence.
How would you respond? No info forth coming.
Apparently shooters laid in wait for shift change. No description of vehicle or shooters. Last word was they were headed in our direction. Helicopters and cruisers everywhere.
Its getting crazier by the day.
And we're headed out to a youth shooting competition in about 20 minutes.
http://wnep.com/2014/09/13/breaking-news-incident-at-state-police-barracks-in-blooming-grove/
Now the police are being targeted. What next?

Matt


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## BlueRose

How was the shooting contest? I hope they catch the ones who ambushed the police officers. It really gets scary when it happens and even scarier the close it is to you.

Hope you and yours are okay.


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## Ohio dreamer

How would I respond. Likely I would stay home, locked the door and hunkered down (likely with a side arm on my hip....and I DON'T carry normally, but I'm not going to allow myself to become a victim. We had an similar event not to far from here last year. A family was wiped out). I doubt I would go to the shooting competition. I would respond that way because of the media blackout.....I wouldn't feel comfortable driving out into "who knows what". Now if I had a good handle on what was going on via media, scanners, etc I might respond differently, but with no info...I'd stay home.

Do update us on how you day went!


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## puddlejumper007

i would not be driving to a shooting competion with guns in my car....you get pulled over and there you go.....


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## Jim-mi

Lock the doors. . .hunker down . . .and it wont be a hunting knife on my hip.

You can only hope that how ever they escaped, that they are far from you.

. . . ."Where does it go from here" . . . . . .The question of the year.....


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## Sawmill Jim

Well may not be the case there but here and in some other areas there is no other recourse for out of control Cops or other politicians . Here the Cops can wright the laws on the spot and the judge will enforce them . I have expected this type of action for a long time Hold on it is going to get worse .


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## Harry Chickpea

"Its getting crazier by the day.
And we're headed out to a youth shooting competition in about 20 minutes."

I've often been irritated by youth, but never gone quite that far.


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## Conhntr

Ohio dreamer said:


> How would I respond. Likely I would stay home, locked the door and hunkered down (likely with a side arm on my hip...!


Uh if i rwhere in a "hunker down situation" id be grabbing a rifle or maybe shotgun not a handgun.


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## Ernie

Why do any of you feel threatened? The perpetrator chose a target and set up a complicated ambush at a police station, against armed targets. They then (thus far) successfully evaded.

It's not some random shooter targeting civilians. 

If anything, you should feel threatened by the police response to this ... setting up roadblocks and approaching every car with a dozen automatic weapons drawn.


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## anniew

And more irony...there is/was scheduled a gun show down the interstate in Matamoras PA today.
Matt, I used to live on that very road where the barracks is located...Route 402...about a mile from the shooting.


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## AngieM2

I hope it all works out and no others are shot at or hurt. Cop or civilian.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

makes me think of the guy shooting police in Munckton Mew Brunswick this summer , lady watched and videoed the guy shoot the the one cop , he was only interested in shooting cops apparently got 3 injured 2 more before they caught up with him

because of the police it isn't a good idea to go out and because you never know who is getting desperate stay home relax , I don't know about you but by bed time all my doors are locked anyway , it is just good SOP to lock doors once your in for the evening we had a guy opening the front door once he started asking if someone I had never heard of before was here like he just had a mix up in houses , they make it look like they are opening the screen door to knock but I don't like that knock stay outside I can talk through the screen door.

the remote door bell on the gate stopped working but I did like that while it worked very few people used it however they walked right past and knocked any way


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## Sawmill Jim

AngieM2 said:


> I hope it all works out and no others are shot at or hurt. Cop or civilian.


Cops arn't civilians :hobbyhors


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## RWeThereYet

Ernie said:


> Why do any of you feel threatened? The perpetrator chose a target and set up a complicated ambush at a police station, against armed targets. They then (thus far) successfully evaded.
> 
> It's not some random shooter targeting civilians.
> 
> If anything, you should feel threatened by the police response to this ... setting up roadblocks and approaching every car with a dozen automatic weapons drawn.


When I heard about this on the radio, I wonder if it was something personal.


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## Ernie

RWeThereYet said:


> When I heard about this on the radio, I wonder if it was something personal.


It usually turns out to be something like that, and also usually turns out to be another cop who is the shooter.


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## Roadking

Shooter on the loose still as of this morning.

Oldest scored a 168 out of 200; not bad for his first competition. 22 cal bolt, open sites...could use scope as well...high score was 192.

It was sponsored by one of our state reps, and the ranger officers were all police. Emergency response vehicle was set up (last year it was the SWAT Truck) with generators running and making coffee and cookies.
150 kids, cold and rainy on the mountain, but not a single frown to be seen.
Have no issue with carrying rifle to a shoot...it was unloaded in a case, breach open, and invitation in hand. Was carrying my side are in a shoulder holster (Ruger P-85, 9mm) with no concerns.

Search is still active.

Matt


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Roadking said:


> Shooter on the loose still as of this morning.
> 
> Oldest scored a 168 out of 200; not bad for his first competition. 22 cal bolt, open sites...could use scope as well...high score was 192.
> 
> It was sponsored by one of our state reps, and the ranger officers were all police. Emergency response vehicle was set up (last year it was the SWAT Truck) with generators running and making coffee and cookies.
> 150 kids, cold and rainy on the mountain, but not a single frown to be seen.
> Have no issue with carrying rifle to a shoot...it was unloaded in a case, breach open, and invitation in hand. Was carrying my side are in a shoulder holster (Ruger P-85, 9mm) with no concerns.
> 
> Search is still active.
> 
> Matt


glad to hear the shoot went well , I guess i missed that part on my first read 

and for whatever reason I was thinking it was already night fall , I suppose because that is when i read it 

yeah middle of the day I would have just gone to the event.


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## Jim-mi

Ernie said why worry to some responses. My response was as if I were at Matt's location and not here in Michigan.
How many times have we heard of the bad guys wanting / needing a different set of wheels for their get away. . . .and that they have invaded some very unfortunate homeowners for shelter--food--wheels......usually with very dire happenings.
Please post updates on this happening . . . .

Kudo's to you Matt for doing your part to making that youngster into a responsible gun person.


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## BlueRose

Congrats to the young shooters.


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## AngieM2

Matt that's great your son did so well. I'm impressed.

Bad that the shooter is still on the loose. Nice to know you're ready, just in case.


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## Fennick

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> and for whatever reason *I was thinking it was already night fall , I suppose because that is when i read it*
> 
> yeah middle of the day I would have just gone to the event.


You aren't alone in your confusion about the time. I was reading here when the original post was posted and it was posted after midnight. The time indicated on the post also says that it's posted in the middle of the night. 

So I also was curious and confused about why anyone would be _"headed out to a youth shooting competition in about 20 minutes"_ and were leaving in the wee hours of the dead of night.


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## Ernie

Fennick said:


> So I also was curious and confused about why anyone would be _"headed out to a youth shooting competition in about 20 minutes"_ and were leaving in the wee hours of the dead of night.


It's much harder to find them during the day when they're ensconced in their burrows and dens playing video games. Spotlighting at night is really the best means.


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## Ernie

Notice how this story is getting no play in the mainstream media? Not on CNN, not on the radio, etc.

Someone killed one cop and wounded others and got away. This is nationwide manhunt material, but there's almost no news about it at all.

Why do you think that is?

My suspicion is that the Pennsylvania State Police know who did it and it's one of their own.


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## RWeThereYet

Ernie said:


> Notice how this story is getting no play in the mainstream media? Not on CNN, not on the radio, etc.
> 
> Someone killed one cop and wounded others and got away. This is nationwide manhunt material, but there's almost no news about it at all.
> 
> Why do you think that is?
> 
> My suspicion is that the Pennsylvania State Police know who did it and it's one of their own.


It was on the local radio news (NY police is helping in the search).
But absolutely no details as to why.


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## Roadking

Injured officer is now conscious and talking to investigators...still no details to the general public.

Matt


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## Ohio dreamer

Ernie said:


> Notice how this story is getting no play in the mainstream media? Not on CNN, not on the radio, etc.


It's on the news here - local and national feeds. No details, though. 
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Ohio dreamer

Conhntr said:


> Uh if i rwhere in a "hunker down situation" id be grabbing a rifle or maybe shotgun not a handgun.


With a handgun I can still go about my day. A rifle or shotgun in my hand prevents me from doing my daily chores. For me "hunker'ed down" means being at home....not sitting around hiding waiting for XYZ. If I lived in an area where they were police helicopters over head in a search, cops at every turn in a search, etc....I'd just not "go out" but hang home and continue on with what ever needed done. Splitting wood, cooking, caning, cleaning, etc....all things I need 2 hands to do. 
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Jim-mi

Got to agree with your "hunkered down" ideas. . . . . certainly not trying to hide in the closet.


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## Ohio dreamer

Jim-mi said:


> Got to agree with your "hunkered down" ideas. . . . . certainly not trying to hide in the closet.


Only thing that will get me to "hide in a closet" is a tornado. 
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Becka03

my cousin is a State Trooper- he said it was one of his classmates that was killed


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## RWeThereYet

Ohio dreamer said:


> With a handgun I can still go about my day. A rifle or shotgun in my hand prevents me from doing my daily chores. For me "hunker'ed down" means being at home....not sitting around hiding waiting for XYZ. If I lived in an area where they were police helicopters over head in a search, cops at every turn in a search, etc....I'd just not "go out" but hang home and continue on with what ever needed done. Splitting wood, cooking, caning, cleaning, etc....all things I need 2 hands to do.
> http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


I would be inclined to do the same, livestock need watering regardless of what is going on in the news or the weather.
But I look at the response in Boston after that incident. Urban area, going about your day with yard work, carrying a handgun on your hip will likely get a bad response even if you are weeding the garden and common sense says this is NOT a threat.
Out in the sticks/rural area, I dunno, I could see it go either way, as the locals would be the best sources of info, and just about everyone has a fire arm of some sort. 
But there is the over reaction factor due to the militarization of the police forces as of late.
If it were in my area, I cannot be held hostage in my home as things need getting done. But I will be vigilant.


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## Ernie

RWeThereYet said:


> I would be inclined to do the same, livestock need watering regardless of what is going on in the news or the weather.
> But I look at the response in Boston after that incident. Urban area, going about your day with yard work, carrying a handgun on your hip will likely get a bad response even if you are weeding the garden and common sense says this is NOT a threat.
> Out in the sticks/rural area, I dunno, I could see it go either way, as the locals would be the best sources of info, and just about everyone has a fire arm of some sort.
> But there is the over reaction factor due to the militarization of the police forces as of late.
> If it were in my area, I cannot be held hostage in my home as things need getting done. But I will be vigilant.


This guy is your biggest threat. He killed a lawful concealed carrier. And there's millions more just like him. Think it's just the low-brain cops? Not at all. Even the Chicago police superintendent threatened to have his cops shoot people who conceal carry.

Or what about the guy who was just recently killed in a Walmart by two cops who shot him in the back without so much as speaking to him. Why? Because some concerned citizen called in that they saw a "black man with a rifle" in the Walmart. The unfortunate victim happened to have picked up a BB gun in one of the toy aisles and was talking on his cellphone while he carried it to the checkout.

The irony? Open carry is legal in that state. Had the man been carrying a REAL rifle the police would not have even had the right to stop and question him, much less gun him down in cold blood.


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## RWeThereYet

Ernie said:


> This guy is your biggest threat. He killed a lawful concealed carrier. And there's millions more just like him. Think it's just the low-brain cops? Not at all. Even the Chicago police superintendent threatened to have his cops shoot people who conceal carry.
> 
> Or what about the guy who was just recently killed in a Walmart by two cops who shot him in the back without so much as speaking to him. Why? Because some concerned citizen called in that they saw a "black man with a rifle" in the Walmart. The unfortunate victim happened to have picked up a BB gun in one of the toy aisles and was talking on his cellphone while he carried it to the checkout.
> 
> The irony? Open carry is legal in that state. Had the man been carrying a REAL rifle the police would not have even had the right to stop and question him, much less gun him down in cold blood.


LOL! (@ the pic)
Sad but true state of affairs in the US.
Our county sheriffs are pretty good and level headed. State troopers can go either way. The city cops look a lot like the guy in your pic . . . same attitude.


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## Ernie

Or remember this unfortunate pair of ladies? They happened to be riding in a truck during the Dorner manhunt out in LA, where the police were hunting for one of their own who had "gone rogue". 

The truck wasn't the same color, make or model, and had two Hispanic women riding in it instead of a large, burly black man ... but that didn't stop the cops from firing a hundred or so rounds into the back of it when one of the women made the frightening move of throwing out a newspaper while they completed their newspaper route.


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## RWeThereYet

Ernie said:


> Or remember this unfortunate pair of ladies? They happened to be riding in a truck during the Dorner manhunt out in LA, where the police were hunting for one of their own who had "gone rogue".
> 
> The truck wasn't the same color, make or model, and had two Hispanic women riding in it instead of a large, burly black man ... but that didn't stop the cops from firing a hundred or so rounds into the back of it when one of the women made the frightening move of throwing out a newspaper while they completed their newspaper route.


If the military had the ROE the police do, we would of won the war in Afghanistan . . . in less than 3 years.


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## Ernie

One hopes the military has better aim though. Notice the amount of bullets which just went into the tailgate of the truck. I remember when this article first came out and they were criticized for their lack of discretion. As many rounds went down the street and into people's houses as went into the vehicle. Their response was that it's often difficult to control your weapon and protect yourself from return fire at the same time.

Must have been embarassing when it was discovered that the two women in that truck were armed only with rolled up newspapers.


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## Harry Chickpea

Maybe the cops were afraid of the power of the press.


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## Becka03

There is going to be a press conference at 2 today- they have a person in custody


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## Ernie

Becka03 said:


> There is going to be a press conference at 2 today- they have a person in custody


Got a link? I'm anxious to see the details.


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## Becka03

I will have to look- I follow the local news channel on FB- and saw they posted there would be one


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## Becka03

Here ya go:

http://www.wearecentralpa.com/story.../CuJGupsBRUiSdY2GXBtxGQ#.VBh_qTtvmrc.facebook


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## Ohio dreamer

Can't find any news conferences, but I did find this update.

http://6abc.com/news/suspect-named-in-pa-trooper-shootings/308234/


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## Ernie

Some confusion here ...

It took them four days to find a jeep with evidence in it left near the barracks? What evidence did they find linking him? A 308 shell? 

They charged him with 5 counts of murder? Who else did he murder? Some of those charges sound kind of ludicrous. "Possession of an instrument used in a crime". Heh. Really?

So this criminal mastermind who apparently left all the evidence in the jeep parked nearby is still on the run and eluding them. He's not in custody. 

"Survivalist training" and "expressed desire to commit mass murder". Interesting meme they're building there.

They don't have anything yet that would stick, unless they're hiding something. They would have to prove the jeep was used in the shooting, but since there are no witnesses who saw it there that's difficult. He could just say he abandoned it in the woods (which isn't a crime). Did they find a rifle in the jeep? Or 308 shells? Again, they'd have to prove he pulled the trigger. If they found the rifle that fired the killing shots in the jeep, he could still claim he'd left his rifle in the jeep when he abandoned it. A good lawyer would have enough reasonable doubt there to get him off on any charges they could pile on.

I'm betting they don't bring him in alive though. They'll burn him like Dorner and call him the shooter forever, whether he was or not. The Crypteia is on the move!


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## Ernie

More info surfacing about what they found in the jeep ... from another article:

"Inside, police found evidence, specifically shell casings, that matched casings found at Blooming Grove. They also found Frein's social security card, military equipment and rifle cases."

Slight correction from earlier. The police didn't find the jeep ... some other person found the jeep and reported it to them. Apparently 2 miles through the woods was further away from the barracks than the police were going to search.

Social security card. Heh. Yeah, that's pretty awesome. I'm sure that any dangerous survivalist makes sure he takes his social security card along and leaves it at the scene with spent brass and rifle cases.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

seriously who carries a social security card I needed it 17 years ago to gain employment , and not since it sits in my important papers file with the marriage certificate that hasn't seen the light of day in 15 years nor does any one care about.

this stinks so much it is like an episode of some cop show on tv where the guy is being set up


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## Ernie

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> seriously who carries a social security card I needed it 17 years ago to gain employment , and not since it sits in my important papers file with the marriage certificate that hasn't seen the light of day in 15 years nor does any one care about.
> 
> this stinks so much it is like an episode of some cop show on tv where the guy is being set up


Yep. It would be hilarious except that the police are going to kill that guy. He'll never get a day in court. He'll die and then only the "official story" will be the one that gets played over and over again.

Dangerous survivalist nut guns down police officers. 

That's the meme being created. But why?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Ernie said:


> Yep. It would be hilarious except that the police are going to kill that guy. He'll never get a day in court. He'll die and then only the "official story" will be the one that gets played over and over again.
> 
> Dangerous survivalist nut guns down police officers.
> 
> That's the meme being created. *But why*?


well i could say that there was a conspiracy a corruption something like that and the guy shot was about to report it , disclose it , 

this sounds really far fetched , until you hear the story about the FBI agent being threatened because she was uncovering the truth about LA county sheriffs deputies abuse and gang like activity on the 3rd floor of the LA county jail , you just can't hardly write stuff this wild , the harassment was getting to the point that the FBI was going to move their agent into protective custody in their own office to keep her from ending up in county jail on a trumped up charge.

If you have the gumption to threaten an FBI agent who is recording your every word , your some special kind of thinking your above it all


think that is just LA , NYC had a guy recording inconsistencies in crime reporting and the written vs unwritten policy of the NYPD , he didn't think it was right to constantly harass the public to assert control he instead talked with people on his beat got to know them and they told him who the real problems were. , well they took steps to discredit him and finally took him into custody and stuck him in a very out of the way phyc ward for 3-4 days till his dad finally found where he was , and got him release as the hospital was holding him on no charges ,because "they were told to " because the guy was "displaying irrational behavior and they labeled him as a danger to himself "

so seeing that these tactics didn't work why not shoot the guy after you have detained the guy your setting up for it because he is a "survivalist" and has made threats , no one will miss him as he normally goes days without contacting any one 

if they don't have a big shoot out and burn him up , he is very likely to be found dead of self inflicted gun shot wound , the perfect patsy 

think it can't happen . LA county sheriff's department intentionally lost the FBI's informant for days transferring him from place to place inside the jail at least on paper always taking the maximum amount of time to record the change so that when the change was recorded he was moved again to cover up that any time any one talked back to a deputy the unwritten rule was he had to go to the hospital from the beating they gave him.



there are lots of good cops but there are enough bad ones that these things do happen

whom ever shot these troopers it is not good , and very sad, but i hope they can get real answers and not just a open and shut with some very strange coincidences and a bunch of dead who can't talk.


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## BlackFeather

We had an American Indian shoot state troopers a few years ago just south of Buffalo. The guy was considered a hero by some locals. Which calls into question what did the state troopers do to tick so many people off. They finally got him and I don't know what happened to him. I suspect revolution will come to this country some day, and if the police are not on the side of the people but on the side of the federal government they will be hunted. It is sad to say but what I foresee is any one working for or on the side of the federal government will targeted, right down to the janitor that cleans in a federal building. It will be called giving aid and support to the enemy. After all how do you fight a government far away in Washington? You have to destroy their infrastructure, cars, computers, and sadly enough, employees. I don't look forward to this since any civil/ revolutionary war will weaken us and as Sun Tzu said when you have war too close to home, once your weak, others will come in and try to conquer you. I fear this shooting of police is just a shadow of the future, a future which is no go for anyone.


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## Roadking

Well, still on the loose, and at around 6:30, wife sent me an update of gunfire in Cresco, about 10 miles away (our scanner, no link). That would be en route to his residence in Canadensis. A straight line from the shooting to his home.
http://wnep.com/2014/09/16/state-police-name-suspect-in-trooper-slaying/
http://wnep.com/2014/09/16/reports-zeroing-in-on-suspect/
http://wnep.com/tag/trooper-shooting/

Matt


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## Roadking

Schools closed today around the area with gunman still on the loose.

http://wnep.com/weather/school-closing/

Matt


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## AngieM2

Dang Matt. I hope you are carrying, and everyone stays safe and the shooter is captured very soon. Like last night.


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## Roadking

I use AAAT Security...Armed At All Times...LOL! Appreciate the concern.
According to what has been said (I have a friend LEO who is giving me what he can, and it is little) the guy got the cops he wanted, and is hoping for a mass shooting.
Current location (as best they can figure) is a 16,000 acre forest/park. If he IS a survivalist, he will be hard to flush out.
Kinda seeing the movie Rambo unfolding, unfortunately. Maybe his mass shooting will be any first responder he comes across.
Hoping for the best, but carrying on with daily life. I'm off today, so working in the shop with the usual hardware available.

Matt


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## AngieM2

Matt, have you ever read Chuck's book "Bulletproof"? Seems as your mind set is what Chuck has talked about in that book.


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## Roadking

No, I've not. Guess I should put it on my list. Paperback or online? Thanks.
BTW, I have no delusions of being bullet proof, just aware and prepared to do whatever I can to safeguard my family. I will also not live in fear because of some goof ball on the loose with delusions of grandeur, instead, go on with my daily life to the best of my abilities.

Matt


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## AngieM2

http://www.amazon.com/Bulletproof-The-Making-Invincible-Mind/dp/1590523989

Kindle or Paperback.

I think you'd like it. Part of it mentions him going on about life during the Washington sniper. That's when he still lived in that area before moving to WVa.


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## partndn

Ok, I feel a lil bit off track. 

Is the guy they are now said to be after.. the same guy as left the Jeep, etc? or do we know that :huh:


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## Jim-mi

could I have a show of hands of those of you that have .308 shell casings in your home or vehicle . .????????

Indeed.........


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## Roadking

Appears it was the dad's jeep that the guy was using. Seems to still be the main suspect.
As to .308 casings in home/vehicle...reloader? I have .308 cases in my shop for the time when I get to reloading. BTW...I have an alibi. My .308 hasn't been fired in about 12 years.

Matt


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## Roadking

Seems a .308 and AK-47 are missing from the parents' house.

Matt


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## Jim-mi

Didn't see anything in those links saying anything about recovered bullets to prove what weapon was used..??
Which is why my question about ".308 casings" . . .since it is such a common round...


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## Sawmill Jim

Roadking said:


> Appears it was the dad's jeep that the guy was using. Seems to still be the main suspect.
> As to .308 casings in home/vehicle...reloader? I have .308 cases in my shop for the time when I get to reloading. BTW...I have an alibi. My .308 hasn't been fired in about 12 years.
> 
> Matt


That is ok they will fire it for you or just bring a gun to fit their needs :hobbyhors


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## Roadking

Currently police are now converging on the power lines by Hawley...about 15 miles north of us. 
http://wnep.com/2014/09/17/troopers-continue-search/
Went from 7 miles south to 15 miles north. Guess, if it's correct, and the proper suspect both times, he managed to get hold of a vehicle. If they don't get him soon, looks like another day off from school...like we don't get enough with the snow as it is...
Back to trimming the hedges and mowing the grass.

Matt


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## unregistered353870

Jim-mi said:


> Didn't see anything in those links saying anything about recovered bullets to prove what weapon was used..??
> Which is why my question about ".308 casings" . . .since it is such a common round...


At one of the press conferences, the police spokesman said the casings from the scene have matching tool marks from casings found in the suspect's bedroom. I'm assuming they mean the marks the extractor makes. I don't know how precise that science is. Supposedly, it can be like fingerprints, but I have doubts whether the results are that conclusive. They can't do any comparison of bullets until they get the gun so they can fire one from it.


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## Roadking

Midnight, and still no one in custody. Kiddos are not going to school tomorrow, whether they cancel the school day or not. Sick day...in so many ways.

Matt


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## AngieM2

Have they found him yet?


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## Roadking

Still on the loose. Funeral for the trooper is today at 10 am.
School was cancelled for safety concerns.

Matt


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## Jim-mi

A while back a State trouper was downed on a traffic stop. (up here in my area)
The funeral was a monster . . .
Cops from all over the country came . . . . 
The media carried on and on and on about how good a guy he was . . 
A street was renamed for him.
People carried on and on . . .


And yet during that time other very very good folks died . . . . They were just as good and or much better than that trouper . . . . .
Of course not a word in the media........

Part of the effort to glamorize and put on a pedistal all the uniforms out there and make martial law seem like the proper thing to do.......

Of course, the taking of a life is a decided NO NO
I am sure we will never get an answer from the trigger puller as to . . Why . . . .


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I probably have 308 casings in my truck and I don't even own a 308 never have , but I clean out the brass buckets at the range and a few times they have tipped over , I pick them up but fine one from time to time still rolling around.


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## Roadking

Neighbor has a trooper friend. Just texted her saying get inside NOW and stay there! Well they told me, and couldn't understand why I kept working on my smaller garage. He wants police and a mass shooting. He's not likely to cruise/walk the street and pick off one by one.
They ran back home and locked themselves in with a few kitchen knives as defense...sad.
I finished up with the material I had and am now making pizza for the family. 
Suddenly, a lot of cruisers and unmarked cars. might be an interesting night. $175k reward currently.
He was spotted near Cove Haven earlier today...I'm usually there 3 times a week doing HVAC...I was home today. 
Looks like he's on his way to real close to home.

Matt

BTW, home made pizza with extra garlic and pepperoni. Sorry, warped sense of humor as usual. Not really concerned for self, but family and friends that don't have a clue. Hopefully some good news soon.


----------



## AngieM2

Just keep carrying, and eyes open. Enjoy your pizza.


----------



## Roadking

Choppers and cruisers abound. For some reason, I think its a false positive...too much light and siren and presence. Time will tell.
And, yup, I'm prepared Just in case. About to go sit on the porch and enjoy a beverage and watch the happenings.

Matt​


----------



## Roadking

Tomorrow night's football game postponed already...won't know about school until 5:30 am...unless he's caught or shot, I'm seeing another day off for kiddos. 
Lucky me, tho...I get to go to Cove Haven in the morning...where he was sighted earlier. Ahhh, fun abounds...NOT!

Matt


----------



## Roadking

School closed again.
The shooter is now the FBI's #2 most wanted. http://wnep.com/2014/09/19/accused-killer-ranked-2-on-fbis-mosted-wanted-list/
Believed to still be In the area. Choppers and cruisers all night, still now as well.
Making the police look bad, IMO. 
Believed to be in Barret township...great, I have to go thru there in about 2 hours for a repair job...fun, fun, fun.

Matt


----------



## AngieM2

Keep your eyes open. And if you were sitting on your front porch and watching, seems you have your own reality show without the obvious idiots.


----------



## Roadking

Oh, there's plenty of idiots alright...But I do like to people watch. And reality is much better than TV, IMO.
Headed out shortly. Will report when I get back.

Matt


----------



## Becka03

Please stay safe!


----------



## Forerunner

Sounds like the Boston incident.

They want to make sure the people _feel_ the fear.

I don't believe they are after the real shooter, and I don't believe the real shooter poses any threat to society, whatsoever.

Agenda-based policing and media work surely do muddy the waters.


----------



## Ernie

Yep, and a concentrated propaganda attempt to make sure the public thinks that an attack on the cops is the same as an attack on them.

Has this person killed anyone else? Nope. He's probably had a dozen opportunities, but he hasn't.

Closing the schools is a deliberate attempt to inconvenience the parents and garner public support through fear.


----------



## Sawmill Jim

What I have noticed no one wants to bring up is the fact many police departments and courts seem to be above the law . Many times we have talked about there being a ballot box and when all else fails there is another box .:bow:

So was this a specify target for a presumed reason, then TPTB just hype everything up as has been said for the fear factor . Just food for thought .Take as an example when cops have strip searched women on the side of a road then the cops most times are put on paid leave . So could this be the first shot fired in what we have been saying is going to be coming when all other options have been exhausted .

Just food for thought :thumb:


----------



## Ernie

Right. There is a distinct possibility that the specific cops committed some abuse against this man or his family or someone he cares about, and that he sought specific and targeted retribution.

They do not have any real evidence on him. Shell casings and a stuck jeep are not evidence, and neither is a sniper manual. Even if they recover the rifle it's not great evidence. He could claim he left it in the jeep and someone else used it. 

They've got to put him at the scene pulling the trigger.

Since they can't do that at this point, they're just going to kill him. Then there will only be one side of the story.


----------



## Sawmill Jim

Ernie said:


> Right. There is a distinct possibility that the specific cops committed some abuse against this man or his family or someone he cares about, and that he sought specific and targeted retribution.
> 
> They do not have any real evidence on him. Shell casings and a stuck jeep are not evidence, and neither is a sniper manual. Even if they recover the rifle it's not great evidence. He could claim he left it in the jeep and someone else used it.
> 
> They've got to put him at the scene pulling the trigger.
> 
> Since they can't do that at this point, they're just going to kill him. Then there will only be one side of the story.


Yep notice in post #61 I hinted at the cops care not for the law most in this area are on a power trip . Thing gets me as long as it is the poor folks being pushed around no one cases one bit . It takes lots of cash to fight City Hall :thumb:


----------



## Jim-mi

The "real shooter" would have planned an escape rout and not dumped a jeep into the water,
The "real shooter" has got to be well aware of heat seeking--thermo imaging ---helicopters etc. etc etc.
So why on earth would he try to hide in the woods, reasonably close by his big hit.?
The "real shooter" is more likely far away.......

The cops badly need a very dead patsy . . .
.But all those jack boots will play their games . . .striking untold amounts of 'fear' into the close by sheeple.

Gotta hope some innocent home owner doesn't get gunned down by an overzealous Rambo jack boot......


----------



## Sawmill Jim

Jim-mi said:


> The "real shooter" would have planned an escape rout and not dumped a jeep into the water,
> The "real shooter" has got to be well aware of heat seeking--thermo imaging ---helicopters etc. etc etc.
> So why on earth would he try to hide in the woods, reasonably close by his big hit.?
> The "real shooter" is more likely far away.......
> 
> The cops badly need a very dead patsy . . .
> .But all those jack boots will play their games . . .striking untold amounts of 'fear' into the close by sheeple.
> 
> Gotta hope some innocent home owner doesn't get gunned down by an overzealous Rambo jack boot......


Yep I wouldn't want to sit on my porch and shoot horse flies with a BB gun in that area for sure :buds:


----------



## Forerunner

Sawmill Jim said:


> Just food for thought :thumb:


Set me a plate at the table....and I'll likely be having dessert.


----------



## 7thswan

The other day, maybe monday. I was out picking raspberrys,saw off in the distance a Chopper-it saw me the same time. Came right over to check me out. I do not know if it was Military or what but instantly I was worried if they were looking for a escapee or something,maybe looking for pot. Bugged me,not knowing if it would be safer for me to go inside and lock up. I did stay outside and continue picking, the Chopper came back again ,I know they could see my bucket of berries,but how many "cops" know about Golden Rasperrys? Gets one thinking.


----------



## Roadking

Back from the area...lots of cops and black SUVs. Seems the folks are not intimidated by the LEOs...more like agitated.
As has been mentioned by others, I get the feeling this is posturizing for the sake of ego...maybe because the mid terms are coming up and this area always votes...never mind...wrong forum for that stream of thought.
I seriously think the guy is in a ditch some where; had a helper that turned on him (hence the S S card left in the vehicle...Really?). Said helper didn't like the rest of the plan and is home getting his jollies watching the escapades. Who knows?
IF he is still alive, he won't be from what I've been seeing, and past events country wide.
BTW...I do sit on my porch and shoot the moths with an old Red Ryder BB gun...with a side arm and rifle near by.
At 10:30, it will be a week to the day. If something is going to happen, I'd guess it will be soon...There are 3 shopping centers within 10 miles (all Mount Pocono), and Friday night is when all the weekenders are coming up to see the foliage change. If a mass shooting is coming, I think it will be tonight...otherwise, I go by the assumption that he is now at ambient temperature.

Will keep you posted.

Matt


----------



## belladulcinea

I have a friend who live around there somewhere and she posted this on her facebook. Is this the same place as you are Roadking?

PER PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE, ALL RESIDENTS OF BARRETT AND PRICE TOWNSHIPS SHOULD SHELTER IN PLACE. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME AND STAY AWAY FROM WINDOWS.
Sent by ReadyNotifyMonroe


----------



## Ernie

belladulcinea said:


> I have a friend who live around there somewhere and she posted this on her facebook. Is this the same place as you are Roadking?
> 
> PER PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE, ALL RESIDENTS OF BARRETT AND PRICE TOWNSHIPS SHOULD SHELTER IN PLACE. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME AND STAY AWAY FROM WINDOWS.
> Sent by ReadyNotifyMonroe


Does it bother any of the locals there that they are being terrorized ... by the police?


----------



## TRellis

Ernie said:


> Does it bother any of the locals there that they are being terrorized ... by the police?


My guess would be that the transplants that moved to the Poconos from NY city and New Jersey are terrorized, but from what I am hearing from my local friends that still live in the area, they could not care less and it is nothing more than a speed bump.

There are others that live in that area that I would be more afraid of/concerned about than the guy the cops are looking for. There are some pretty scary enclaves way back in the woods. 

There are so many hunting cabins in the Poconos I would not be surprised if they find he has been hiding out in one of them. If they do not find him in the near future they may find signs of him in early to mid November. That is when the hunting clubs and cabin leasers show up to cut and split wood for deer season for guns.

TRellis


----------



## Becka03

this was in my FB feed from the local news:


> 911 dispatch in Monroe County reportedly confirms that shots fired in the search for Eric Frein. Residents have been told to stay in their homes. We'll have the latest on WTAJ News at 11


----------



## belladulcinea

I think they do realize they are in more danger from unbridled anxiety and shooting from the cops than the guy on the run.


----------



## Roadking

Yup, that's the current news. I think it's the police that are more terrified than the locals. Very few folks I know are sheltering in place, just those that get their views from reality shows. Life goes on for most folks I deal with, and our eyes and ears are open. We have a good network of people up here that watch out for each other.

Matt

ETA...I'm more concerned with the dang bear...last night, he knocked over our chicken tractor and shredded a trash can. The nerve!


----------



## Jim-mi

Oh you do have a problem . . . . .lol . . .If the 44 barks too drop the "freezer" bear and the wrong person hears . . . . .the jackboots will be all over you like flies on stink.


----------



## Roadking

I don't need a $10,000 fine for bear killing...but tired of righting the chicken coop/tractor.

Matt


----------



## Roadking

A lot of chatter on the scanner... plus wife found the Monroe Sherrifs dispatch app...lots of cars being called into line of sight position. Nothing new on the news, and many of the calls are "21 me"...which to my limited knowledge is call on phone, don't want folks knowing whats happening.
2 Cruisers just flew by me house in the direction of last suspected location. They are tightening the drag net, it seems.
Well, back to splitting wood in the back yard.
Oh, and a chopper as well. Who needs cable TV?

Matt


----------



## TRellis

I would hate it if I were still living in the Poconos right now. The cops are searching though many of the back wood areas that I bow hunted. I am sure that the police are not allowing anyone in those areas to scout for the upcoming bow season.

TRellis


----------



## Sawmill Jim

TRellis said:


> I would hate it if I were still living in the Poconos right now. The cops are searching though many of the back wood areas that I bow hunted. I am sure that the police are not allowing anyone in those areas to scout for the upcoming bow season.
> 
> TRellis


That is another of my pet peeves let the cops start hunting one person and they take control of a hundred square miles . gre: Lots of cops I know couldn't find their but with both hands ,they just want to strut around and show off . If a car were to back fire they would probably cause a cloud burst from all the holes in the sky and injure ten (civilians er suspects) as they like to refer to the people that pays them :hammer::run: 

Tell em you are a bounty hunter and to get out of your way :thumb:


----------



## Roadking

Listening to the sheriffs department live...looks like earlier was a no go...

http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/7527/web

Pretty much making making folks have little faith in the police.

Wood split, dinner had, time for a movie.

Matt


----------



## Jim-mi

LOL . . .I poped on that link and listened for a couple minutes . . . . ."Control what is the ETA of our replacements" "We are about to run out of gas" . . . . .
Think about all the gasoline wasted. . . . chasing the shadow in the woods..

Gonna be way too much tension from all these hours of the jack boots finger on the trigger . . .and nothing yet to shoot........


----------



## Roadking

Give them time Jim-mi...unfortunately. It would be funny if it wasn't real life Keystone Cops.

Matt

PS yeah, the out of gas one had me seriously wondering what our tax dollars do...


----------



## terri9630

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> seriously who carries a social security card I needed it 17 years ago to gain employment , and not since it sits in my important papers file with the marriage certificate that hasn't seen the light of day in 15 years nor does any one care about.
> 
> this stinks so much it is like an episode of some cop show on tv where the guy is being set up


You'd be surprised at how many people carry it. One of my neighbors at our last place had her social security card, DL and a copy of her birth certificate in a purse she carried everywhere. It's not uncommon for that to happen around here either for some reason.


----------



## Ernie

terri9630 said:


> You'd be surprised at how many people carry it. One of my neighbors at our last place had her social security card, DL and a copy of her birth certificate in a purse she carried everywhere. It's not uncommon for that to happen around here either for some reason.


Did she ever leave them in her getaway vehicle?


----------



## terri9630

Ernie said:


> Did she ever leave them in her getaway vehicle?


Yep. She was a gas pump thief and one of the worst neighbors we ever had.


----------



## Roadking

Still on the loose, and reports of him in town. School open tomorrow, but our kids are not going in. Almost looks like using kids as bait. E-mail said all absences will be excused...Dang straight. Until he's locked up or at ambient temperature, our kids are not going in. Busses and schools are easy targets. Presently, 3 miles away...near town.
Police lost him again.

Matt


----------



## Roadking

School day started, our kids home. Hoping for everyones' safety.

Matt


----------



## BlueRose

Are you able to be home with the kids today? Do you have target practice planned for them?


----------



## Roadking

We are going into Dickson City to get karate gear and hopefully, some .22 ammo.
Target practice...check. Outdoor (50 ft) and indoor (25 ft) ranges at house. Think we'll do the indoor today, we were doing out door yesterday. Just the pellet rifles...usually gun fire is ignored around here, but recently, a blast get the full attention of the police, and understandably so.
Hope they get him soon. Pictures for school are Wednesday.

Matt


----------



## AngieM2

Seems to me 10 or so decent tracker, hunters, snipers would be more effective than all this shotgun approach to peopling the search. 

I believe in sneaky and lethal (if necessary).


----------



## Roadking

I agree...recruit some local hunters...but it's not like we are all not watching for him, just not supposed to go after him. You know, for our own safety.
I for one think a few of our good old boys would have had him neutralized some time ago, and if he shows up on the wrong property, he will find out quickly how trespassers are dealt with.

Matt


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE

terri9630 said:


> Yep. She was a gas pump thief and one of the worst neighbors we ever had.


so this is a behavior of the criminal element , thats why I don't understand 

If I lived near a border and was concerned with needing to prove who I was maybe I would , If I was ready to never return home again maybe I would


----------



## Jim-mi

Lots of hours since an up date...................


----------



## Roadking

All quiet...left Boy Scout meeting at 8...4 state troopers hauling butt out of town to the north, I-84...no light, but flying fast. No news reports, scanner quiet. Guessing they are letting him have some time to reflect (sarcasm) on the situation. Sending oldest to school tomorrow...at the top of the lake, about a 25 minute drive on the bus.
If he's still not in custody, youngest stays home (shooter is, at last report, in that area).
I'm off again tomorrow, so the 3 boxes of 22LR I picked up today will allow for some extra target practice tomorrow.
And my new game camera and red dot sights can be fine tuned. As well as the new shotgun...another Mossberg 500 in 20 for the kiddos.
Been a full day. Sorry for the delay jim-mi...LOL!

Matt


----------



## Jim-mi

It did make the local cbs news at 11p.
stock type footage . . . .camo dressed jackboots . . . .standing around.
Coverage . . . about 19 seconds...

Be well Matt and family..............


----------



## AngieM2

What's this morning's update, Matt?


----------



## Roadking

Sent oldest to school...its at the top of the lake, away from the area. Youngest staying home as the elementary school is at the bottom of route 447...where the manhunt is focused...near Sportsmen Dr., about 6 miles or so away.
No after school activities, including Cub Scouts.
I'm setting up the rifle range so we can be in the shop shooting out so we are not in the open in cases the guy is nearby...still just .177 pellet.
Scanner has been unusually quiet, news still nothing really.
State police cruisers are zipping thru on occasion, but no disturbances in our daily life.
Game camera saw nothing last night but our one outdoor cat.

Matt


----------



## Ernie

There's some questions as to why the police haven't dredged the pond in which the jeep was found.


----------



## Becka03

no updates Roadking?


----------



## handymama

Whatever happened to putting together a posse and riding out?


----------



## Roadking

Home now...nothing that I've heard, except from folks that can't be quoted;
1) AK47 "type" rifle recovered...news did put that out.
2) 2 .308 rifles, one scoped, one open sight recovered in the woods. 1 at a burned out camp fire, one as a suspect fled on foot.
3) FBI, BATFE, State, local police, Lancaster county Sheriff's K-9 unit in town, an armoured...almost looks like a bobcat skidsteer...is about (it will get stuck or flip if they head into the woods).
IMHO, he's either dead or seriously hunkered down. Guessing he has more fire arms than originally thought (original report was 1 .308 and 1 AK "Type" rifle). If alive, I think he's planning to get the police as nervous as possible, then strike...most likely at one of the several staging areas as he has an issue with Law Enforcement (as do a lot of the residents in the area...LEO looking like fools...possibly intentional on this guys part).
Troopers are zipping by in both directions outside our house (we are not under a shelter in place order...and if we were, we'd ignore it...BTW.)
Our school is open, sheriff's car and 2 state trooper cars (3 men in each) are in the elementary school parking lot.
Scanner quiet.
As a positive, guy I work with had me stop at his place on the way home...to give a bullet trap to my boys...Got to get a picture. This will pen up more practice time for us.
Plus I found a source for 22LR ammo...bricks at old prices and no limits...going back tomorrow...LOL!
Anyone in the area...be aware.

Matt


----------



## Roadking

BTW, the terrain, as I have seen it on hikes...guy could be 5 feet from you, and you'd never know. Lots of laurel, vehicles are pretty useless.
ATF and FBI are not allowing locals to do a posse type attempt.
Officer friend mentioned that there were 6 silent drones...(electric, maybe) up last evening...nada.

Matt

P.S. Make the reward to dead or alive and he'd by done by morning...just saying.


----------



## Ernie

Roadking said:


> BTW, the terrain, as I have seen it on hikes...guy could be 5 feet from you, and you'd never know. Lots of laurel, vehicles are pretty useless.
> ATF and FBI are not allowing locals to do a posse type attempt.
> Officer friend mentioned that there were 6 silent drones...(electric, maybe) up last evening...nada.
> 
> Matt
> 
> P.S. Make the reward to dead or alive and he'd by done by morning...just saying.


Which would be murder. No evidence at all that he did it. None. 

I'm surprised some of you are so gung-ho to get this guy when you know so little about this.


----------



## unregistered353870

I've been wondering if he has a phone on him that he can be checking the news about the search...obviously they're not giving many details, but it would help him a little. It would have to be a phone not connected to his name or with the GPS disabled.

Also been thinking since yesterday that he might have killed himself by now. The reports are not very clear on the timeline of all these times the police have supposedly been "close" to him.


----------



## Roadking

And what would you do Ernie? If it was close to home and you felt your family's safety were in danger?
Personally, I'm not about to go hunt him down, but if someone is trying to get into my home, with my family in it...yes, I will respond. As I would if someone was trying to get into my shop...or skulking around in the woods with a rifle, on my property out of any hunting season. Would you?
To me, that would make them suspect. I'd attempt to engage them and dis arm...if not, I'd rather not go there...be it him or some meth head...but hope I would be able to do what is necessary to defend my family.

Just my $0.03...adjusted for inflation.

Matt

BTW...I'm living it Ernie.


----------



## Jim-mi

Got to agree with Ernie . . . .So many here have already tried and convicted a person they know nothing about----except-- from the statements from the jackboots...
It is a shame that this guy will Never get to utter a word in a court of law.
He will be murdered on sight. Then the jackboots will make up what ever BS they want . . . . . and case closed........

Truth be damed


----------



## Roadking

See post above...I'm no Bernie Goetz...vigilante. But if they come after my family, I will do my best to defend them...not planning on hitting the woods. Some are, however. I can't and won't speak for them.

Matt


----------



## AngieM2

Well, I never thought I'd see the passivist here and chiding about how some would go after what appears to be the bad guy.

I've seen suggestions of how to get him, but not killing him on sight. 

I am sadly disappointed in the views of a few here, that warm fuzzy feeling is usually found in other sections of the forum. 

Matt, and those living it. Do what you have to to get the guy if he's around your area. 

Honestly, I'm totally flabbergasted.


----------



## unregistered353870

I haven't judged him guilty, but I haven't decided he's a hero, soon-to-be martyr, or victim of the "jackboot cops" either. That pre-judging can go both ways.


----------



## Jim-mi

You kinda got two things going there. Absolutely no question about a stranger on your homestead . . and taking -any- steps necessary to protect yourself and family.........

Second is this chasing of a shadow . . . .so many questions about this case do not make sense. 
And of course the cops desperately need a patsy to blame.


----------



## Roadking

I just want him in custody to take that aspect (him being the shooter) resolved. I'm not convinced he is/was alone in his endeavors. Just a feeling. But I would like as many pieces to the puzzle as possible.
Game camera and CCTV (the only live TV we've had for 9 plus years) are set, as is security alarms.
I'll be danged if I'll let anything happen to my family or neighbors. So be it.

Matt

PS...this is S&EP, isn't it. Situational awareness is being tested.


----------



## unregistered353870

I hope they capture him alive, too...that will eliminate at least some of the conspiracy theories. But I really expect him to be dead, either at his own hand or by the police. I don't think they will murder him, though. Just a gut feeling. Wouldn't put it past cops most anywhere, but in this case I don't see it happening.


----------



## Roadking

Again, an un documented source...friend of mine, could be butterscotch. Apparently his brother and he are polar opposites and don't get along...for years. Could said brother have set this up? If so, why didn't he come in at first news to refute the situation? As jtbrandt mentions, lots of theories.
I still believe he had an accomplice that didn't like the idea of a mass shooting and that the suspect is in a ditch somewhere while his buddy is laughing at the police. I would like to know for sure.
BTW, both friend and the suspect are long time if not life time residents of the area. I'm a transplant of only 9 years...I'll never be a local.

Matt

Sirens suddenly...if anything I'll get back...dang, it's late.


----------



## Jim-mi

With this amount of time and hype/tension etc. I have my doughts that any one of those boots will have enough restraint from not jerking the trigger if the guy so much as bats an eye.

Hopefully this thread will get a person or two too rethink about their own security and take steps accordingly


----------



## Roadking

One can hope.

Matt


----------



## Roadking

Sirens went towards 84...must be a wreck.

Matt


----------



## AngieM2

How's it going this morning, Matt?


----------



## Ernie

Roadking said:


> And what would you do Ernie? If it was close to home and you felt your family's safety were in danger?
> Personally, I'm not about to go hunt him down, but if someone is trying to get into my home, with my family in it...yes, I will respond. As I would if someone was trying to get into my shop...or skulking around in the woods with a rifle, on my property out of any hunting season. Would you?
> To me, that would make them suspect. I'd attempt to engage them and dis arm...if not, I'd rather not go there...be it him or some meth head...but hope I would be able to do what is necessary to defend my family.
> 
> Just my $0.03...adjusted for inflation.
> 
> Matt
> 
> BTW...I'm living it Ernie.


Defending your family is one thing and you would do what you need to do.

But what you were saying earlier is that the government should put a reward on this man's head and let the good old boys go out and hunt him.

That's not justice. 

And the evidence against him is FLIMSY. Very flimsy.


----------



## Ernie

Roadking said:


> PS...this is S&EP, isn't it. Situational awareness is being tested.


Part of S&EP is being smart, and I don't think you are doing so.

Are you at any higher risk of being shot by some criminal than you have been in the past? No.

Are you at any higher risk of being shot by hyper-paranoid cops? YES.

Are you piling on to blame someone that the media is currently villifying as a "survivalist"? YES.

Are you naively buying the government's version of the story without any evidence of your own to judge? YES.

Frankly, I think the guy is dead. I think someone else killed those cops and then left the evidence behind to frame him. Only an idiot would leave shell casings and his IDENTIFICATION behind, and an idiot wouldn't have been able to set up and stage such a well-planned assassination.

And I think it has something to do with the rumors about the cop who was actually shot. There is word out that he filed a report briefly before he was killed with internal affairs, pointing to a large and organized corruption ring within the state police. Serpico, anyone?


----------



## Jim-mi

Statement by a cop; "That this was planed long ago"
That would include a full tank of fuel so that he was shortly 'far away'
Not dumping your escape vehicle in the water . . . .to be found with your very own paper work and placing you in a specific area.....
Serpico . . indeed

Something stinks..........


----------



## Sawmill Jim

Jim-mi said:


> Statement by a cop; "That this was planed long ago"
> That would include a full tank of fuel so that he was shortly 'far away'
> Not dumping your escape vehicle in the water . . . .to be found with your very own paper work and placing you in a specific area.....
> Serpico . . indeed
> 
> Something stinks..........


Yep this just didn't pass the smell test from the get go :sing:


----------



## Roadking

Just the same old same old so far today...choppers and cruisers. Scanner is pretty dead, nothing on local news.
On the plus side, found a place for 22LR ammo at good prices.
BTW The reward for info is $175,000. Can't imagine what the overtime is costing.

Matt


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Roadking said:


> Just the same old same old so far today...choppers and cruisers. Scanner is pretty dead, nothing on local news.
> On the plus side, found a place for 22LR ammo at good prices.
> BTW The reward for info is $175,000. Can't imagine what the overtime is costing.
> 
> Matt



175,000 for info I got some info , he is in a office building in North brook ILL , he has changed his look slightly with the cost cutters middle management hair cut , glasses , a button up shirt , khaki pants , and will say his name is James but he looks just like your guy can I have my 175,000 now


----------



## unregistered353870

Supposedly they keep spotting him, so I guess maybe he's not dead yet...not sure I trust the abilities of the spotters, though. Roadking, any idea how big of an area they think they have him confined to?

ETA: Seems the last sighting was over 24 hours ago so he could be dead...this timeline is hard to follow.


----------



## Jim-mi

Local news just showed a pix of the Jeep . . . .No it was not in the "water"......as said before.
It could have been in perhaps a "boggy" area...........

Pray tell; Why would a survivalist even attempt to drive through a boggy area . .???
Makes no sense for a person thinking for a "long time" . . . . to pop a cop.........


----------



## Roadking

Actually, I get more news here than from my scanner and local coverage.
Scanner quiet, news = nada. I have friends from Colorado giving me updates. Not really knowing whats going on besides a lot of vehicles in the area.
If they spotted him...why haven't they caught him?
Local news and info is being squelched or shut off.
Life goes on, but would like an end to the situation.

Matt


----------



## Roadking

Sightings claimed. Cigarette packs and diapers found in search area. If it is him, he's not doing a very good job presently at concealing himself. Fatiqued, perhaps...or baiting?

Matt
PS. Home today due to rain...being on a roof repairing a HVAC in thunderstorms in the Poconos isn't a productive prospect.


----------



## AngieM2

Glad the weather is causing a rest/down day for you.


----------



## handymama

Diapers? Adult ones?


----------



## 7thswan

handymama said:


> Diapers? Adult ones?


Ya, they say he is staying put in one place for long periods of time. He is also smokeing some sort of forigen cigeretts. I wounder if they could be used by tracking dogs to locate him.


----------



## handymama

He oughta be easy to track if he's puffing away and wetting himself lol


----------



## Ernie

7thswan said:


> Ya, they say he is staying put in one place for long periods of time. He is also smokeing some sort of forigen cigeretts. I wounder if they could be used by tracking dogs to locate him.


A dirty diaper could. 

Their failure to find him is either gross incompetence, or further evidence he isn't around.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I may never understand adult diaper use by those whom can control their functions , diging a small hole and defecating in it I understand but if your going to go in a diaper won't you have a bigger clean up issue than if you had just gone in a bag , bucket , hole

it has been about 7 years since i changed a diaper but those were baby poops and still took several wipes to clean it up


----------



## Ernie

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I may never understand adult diaper use by those whom can control their functions , diging a small hole and defecating in it I understand but if your going to go in a diaper won't you have a bigger clean up issue than if you had just gone in a bag , bucket , hole
> 
> it has been about 7 years since i changed a diaper but those were baby poops and still took several wipes to clean it up


Or a bathtub or shower.

The only way I can think it would work is if he's hiding out in the woods during the day and staying in a cabin at night with running water.

I also don't know that the diapers are his. Or the cigarettes. The article said the cigs are Eastern European?

I believe there is a large contingent of mushroom pickers who live up in those mountains, largely from Eastern Europe. The police might be tracking someone's incontinent granny.


----------



## unregistered353870

Roadking said:


> Sightings claimed. Cigarette packs and diapers found in search area. If it is him, he's not doing a very good job presently at concealing himself. Fatiqued, perhaps...or baiting?


The police think he is toying with them by getting close enough to be seen and then slipping away before they can get to him. Also possibly probing for weaknesses in the perimeter so he can find a place to slip through.



Ernie said:


> Their failure to find him is either gross incompetence, or further evidence he isn't around.


I don't doubt the role of incompetence, but I'd bet they're also scared to close in on him (which arguably could be incompetence, too). Even if there is some big conspiracy and he is just a patsy, most of the cops wouldn't be aware of that and are going on the official story. Supposedly they have been given the authority (by whom, I have no idea) to shoot him, but haven't been able to positively identify him.



Ernie said:


> The article said the cigs are Eastern European?


They say he likes Serbian cigs because he was into Cold War re-enactment...I can't really figure out what that entails, since there wasn't all that much action to re-enact.


----------



## Ernie

At last count, they were closing in on over a million dollars of overtime. So yeah, I don't know that the cops have any real interest in putting a stop to that money train.


----------



## 7thswan

Yes,how does one get seen, then not be found. Sounds like that one action movie, where the creature blended in with the trees until it bled. Had those dreadlocks.


----------



## handymama

Predator! Lol


----------



## unregistered353870

7thswan said:


> Yes,how does one get seen, then not be found. Sounds like that one action movie, where the creature blended in with the trees until it bled. Had those dreadlocks.


I'm guessing they see him for a hundred yards or so but don't go after him until they get their armored vehicle there, which gives him a lot of time to be long gone before they even approach where they saw him.


----------



## Ernie

jtbrandt said:


> I'm guessing they see him for a hundred yards or so but don't go after him until they get their armored vehicle there, which gives him a lot of time to be long gone before they even approach where they saw him.


Their "armored vehicle" is a skid loader painted black with a metal box on it.


----------



## unregistered353870

Ernie said:


> Their "armored vehicle" is a skid loader painted black with a metal box on it.


Yeah, I saw that. They call it "The Rook." The article I read said it cost around $245,000...if that's true, they got screwed big time. But there are also some of those MRAP-looking vehicles cruising around the area.

ETA: Here's the manufacturer webpage for The Rook:http://www.ringpower.com/division-landing/tactical-home...not too impressive.


----------



## Roadking

That little bobcat, or rook, doesn't stand a chance in this terrain. It will roll most likely.

Matt


----------



## TRellis

Roadking said:


> That little bobcat, or rook, doesn't stand a chance in this terrain. It will roll most likely.
> 
> Matt


Exactly what I was thinking!!!

At 6.5' wide it will have enough problems trying to avoid the trees and mountain laurels. And if that is not enough then it will have to avoid all of the rocks, of which there are many. Cross-country movement with that vehicle will be very slow at best.

If you want to avoid that thing just stay off of the fire trails because that is its only means of quick movement.

TRellis


----------



## Jim-mi

Can you tell me how absolutely difficult it would be to plant all this stuff......
The found AK47 . . or what ever . . . .
Soiled diapers . . . . . 
Cig buts . . . . . 
A Jeep . . . . . . with papers . . . . .

The shadow they sometimes see . . . . . .One of their own planting this stuff . . . .
And they can't/don;t/wont shoot or chase the shadow . . . . 
giving the "plantee" time to fade away . . . . . . . . .

And if in fact he is a "trained survivalist" he is going to leave all this stuff to be found . ??

it still stinks..............


----------



## Roadking

Could be. But it is day 13...maybe he's losing it?
No shots fired as of yet.
13 days at home, no problem. 13 days in the woods, possibly losing access to some stash...maybe reality setting into his little world. Maybe all a conspiracy.
FLIR not doing to well in the dense foliage, and the reported 1000 or so officers not finding much but diapers and cig packs.
Doubting the truth will actually come out.
Friend had a neat idea...get forestry to do a controlled fire line burn around the 5 mile search area and wait.

Matt


----------



## TRellis

Roadking said:


> Friend had a neat idea...get forestry to do a controlled fire line burn around the 5 mile search area and wait.
> 
> Matt


Hmmmm... Not to rain on your fire, bit this is what immediately comes to my mind.

1. If they lose control of the fire and homes burn there will be many lawsuits. Remember when the cops dropped an incendiary device on that house in Philly way back when. Several houses caught fire and several people died. Oooops! Around here they do "controlled" burns all of the time and they usually (seemingly about 75% of the time) lose control of the fire and wind up burning several thousand acres for a week or two or three. The lawsuits would come from homeowners, hunters, resorts, etc.

2. In order to control the fire someone would have to be right there with fire axes and fire retardant, paying attention to the fire and not paying attention to the ticked-off individual with a weapon. More lawsuits possible.

3. The local, state and national eco-friendly organizations would have a cow!!! And then more lawsuits.

4. If they find his charred remains then his family will have the grounds for a huge lawsuit. "The police just intentionally killed him!" Amnesty International will get involved, Putin will make some snide comments and ISIS will probably post a Youtube video with something to say about American barbarity.

It sounds like a good idea in some ways, but I am of the mind that its practicality is lacking.

Just saying....

TRellis


----------



## unregistered353870

Now hearing about rumors of an affair between the officer who survived and the wife of the shooter's brother. The police say there's no truth to the rumor, but say the shooter may have believed it to be true. Doesn't really make sense to me, since that officer was not the initial target. He was shot while attempting to help the first one who was shot.


----------



## AngieM2

What's the news today?


----------



## Roadking

Status quo...they claim to be closing in, but have been saying that since day 3.

Matt


----------



## 7thswan

RK, do they have tracking dogs working?


----------



## Roadking

Yes. Even a K9 unit from Lancaster County.
Focus now on the abandoned Buck Hill Inn.

Matt


----------



## Roadking

Recent news article...21 minutes ago...
http://wnep.com/2014/09/26/search-for-frein-focused-in-barrett-township/

What bothers me most is the quote..."with all the state police, we feel safer than ever"...

Yeah, paramilitary lining the streets always are a comfort...right? :facepalm:

Matt


----------



## AngieM2

Uh, oh.

Now ABC news is calling him a 'survivalist'.


----------



## Jim-mi

Well ---if---in fact he actually is in the area then yes he is a survivor in that he has evaded all those jackboots all this while.......

So what will the BS story be if in fact he never has been in this area and is "far away"

Pray tell what is the price tag thus far . . . . . . ??

One glaring lesson for all of us is that we must all be first rate do-it-ourselfers when it comes to our own home's security....

Pity those who have the attitude they are "safer" with so many 'boots' around.........


----------



## Roadking

Been saying survivalist since day one in the local news...self trained no less...Found manuals in his folks house.
Really smelling stinky...more and more each day.

Matt


----------



## Ernie

Roadking said:


> Been saying survivalist since day one in the local news...self trained no less...Found manuals in his folks house.
> Really smelling stinky...more and more each day.
> 
> Matt


Wouldn't it have been too bad if they'd followed your suggestions and let the good old boys hunt him, or burned down the forest to kill him?

My point is, to some of us, the story stank from day one. Now there's rumors of a love triangle between the officers who were shot? 

I said at the beginning that the cops were behind it. Wait and see.


----------



## unregistered353870

> I said at the beginning that the cops were behind it. Wait and see.


Problem is, if that's true, we probably will never see it.


----------



## Ernie

jtbrandt said:


> Problem is, if that's true, we probably will never see it.


You might. I don't think it's all the cops behind it ... but rather just one or maybe a small number.

However they have a tendency to protect themselves, and if they shoot this fellow then the story dies with him.

If he's not already dead. Funny how they ain't dredged the pond where they found his jeep.


----------



## unregistered353870

Yeah, that's why I really hope they can capture him alive. It won't answer all the questions, but at least some. I think the police are thinking along the same lines. They seem to want to get him alive if they can. But that's just my gut feeling from what I've seen.

The only picture I saw of the pond made it look really shallow, like maybe 2 feet deep, and filled with cat tails or some other vegetation. Do you think his body might be there, or something else?


----------



## Ernie

jtbrandt said:


> Yeah, that's why I really hope they can capture him alive. It won't answer all the questions, but at least some. I think the police are thinking along the same lines. They seem to want to get him alive if they can. But that's just my gut feeling from what I've seen.
> 
> The only picture I saw of the pond made it look really shallow, like maybe 2 feet deep, and filled with cat tails or some other vegetation. Do you think his body might be there, or something else?


I dunno. I thought I remembered reading that it had a deeper part.

My suspicion is that the guy is already dead. Whoever set him up put a bullet in his head and buried him deep somewhere.


----------



## Jim-mi

They sure have put a lot of effort into building a profile against this guy . . . .Already tried and convicted . . . .So that a dead body is all they need to close the case . . .
I would not bet a penny against this guy ever being in custody . .Alive . . . . . .

This so well could be one of those where the truth Never comes out . . . To the public.


----------



## 7thswan

They just want to make preppers look crazy. Let him be in the spotlight ,ramp things up then kill him.


----------



## Roadking

The stink I refer to is that they haven't got him yet. I'm thinking he was a bit more than self trained. It looks like it is just a big old game to him.
Nothing new today so far.

Matt


----------



## unregistered353870

Ernie said:


> I dunno. I thought I remembered reading that it had a deeper part.
> 
> My suspicion is that the guy is already dead. Whoever set him up put a bullet in his head and buried him deep somewhere.


Could have a deeper part that the pictures don't show. Interesting suspicion. I tend to think he was still alive at least 3-4 days ago, but not sure about now.


----------



## unregistered353870

7thswan said:


> They just want to make preppers look crazy. Let him be in the spotlight ,ramp things up then kill him.


I don't dispute that that's a motive, but some preppers ARE crazy. This could be a case of one who is. Or maybe not.


----------



## Roadking

Believing he is more than "self taught". Rumors of a love triangle, but they have been dispelled. Seems more like he is simply enjoying taunting them... and, I believe, setting a very nasty trap for them. His re-enactments seem to have taken him to a new "reality", IMO.
Not much news/progress.* IF* he's trying to make them look bad, he's doing a pretty good job...*IF* it's him, and *IF* he not dead in a ditch somewhere.
I still like the idea of the controlled burn...that way, whomever has been sighted and slipping away will be put into a bottle neck situation and hopefully restrained so then some answers can emerge.

Matt


----------



## unregistered353870

It's interesting that the police are speaking to him through the media. That implies they believe he has access to TV or internet...so either in a home/cabin or he has a smart phone on him. Seems a phone would be trackable somehow. Probably a lot more complicated than it seems to me, though.

Also interesting to me is that one story said he was driving away after the shooting when he accidentally drove into the pond. One, that seems strange because it looked to me like the Jeep could easily get out of where it was, assuming it's 4x4 which most Jeeps are. Also, if he was planning to make his getaway by driving, it doesn't make sense that he would be so prepared for the hike home through the woods. Perhaps just as a backup, but it's fishy.


----------



## unregistered353870

Just saw a story that he called his parents on day six and that helped the police narrow in on him. And the police think he might have a radio to listen to the news about himself, which explains why they speak directly to him in the news conferences.


----------



## Roadking

Yup, here's the link...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/09/2...s-away-location-police-say/?intcmp=latestnews
They state that they are being cautious when they do spot him, believing he may be carrying pipe bombs, and also believe he still has a rifle.
Phone call was a single ring to folks house...could have been a code, our he could have thought..."whoops, they can track this". OR not a "whoops"..."I'm getting bored because they are in the wrong place".
It's becoming tedious.

Matt


----------



## Forerunner

They're not speaking to him.

They are spoon feeding a very gullible public.


----------



## unregistered353870

I don't think so...but I suppose the gullible usually don't think they're gullible...how can I know if I am? Sure, the government lies, but not everything they say is a lie.


----------



## Ernie

jtbrandt said:


> I don't think so...but I suppose the gullible usually don't think they're gullible...how can I know if I am? Sure, the government lies, but not everything they say is a lie.


I would be hard pressed to find one thing the government says that ISN'T a lie, or at least isn't a twisted truth in their own self interest.

On the topic of the phone call they supposedly tracked him with ... it was a cellphone.

He's been out hiding in the woods with a diaper on for over a week and a half now and was able to keep his cellphone charged?

My cellphone won't hold a charge that long. Will yours? 

Think he found a tree out there with a 110 plug? Think he had help and has been staying somewhere with electricity? Or do you think perhaps there was no phone call at all?


----------



## unregistered353870

My phone will hold enough of a charge for weeks if it's turned off.

Healthy skepticism is good, but I don't see much reason to doubt the phone call happened. What do they gain by making up a phone call? Keeping the public convinced he's still alive, I suppose. But the phone call wasn't really necessary for that. Most people already believed it before they released that information...and it was more than a week after the call supposedly happened. Telling me he called on day six isn't a good way to convince me he's still alive on day 14 or 15.

Anyway, you could be completely right about the whole thing. I have some questions about things that seem fishy about it all, but not enough to draw any conclusions about it all being a set-up. It just seems that if it was a grand conspiracy, it would be better executed. But maybe that's part of the fake-out.


----------



## Roadking

Not much in the media...no confirmed sightings this week is this mornings headline.
What is odd is the 6 state trooper vehicles that just hauled tail pipe past my house...SIX in a fast line. Nothing on the scanner 'tho.
Elementary school has s Honesdale PD SUV in the front, 2 officers in the school.
Youngest went back to school today.

Matt


----------



## Becka03

I heard on the radio this morning that they believe he has the entire area they think he is in- boobytrapped?


----------



## Ernie

Becka03 said:


> I heard on the radio this morning that they believe he has the entire area they think he is in- boobytrapped?


A cop runs into a tree in the middle of the night and calls it a boobytrap. 

Seriously, if this dude learned all of his awesome sniping, escape and evasion, booby-trapping, living off the land skills on his own ... then we're a bunch of pikers just pretending to be survivalists with our cans of beans.


----------



## Becka03

Ernie said:


> A cop runs into a tree in the middle of the night and calls it a boobytrap.
> 
> Seriously, if this dude learned all of his awesome sniping, escape and evasion, booby-trapping, living off the land skills on his own ... then we're a bunch of pikers just pretending to be survivalists with our cans of beans.


I am a piker I am sure of it LOL

Here is a link for a story in our local news:
http://www.wearecentralpa.com/story.../4Gu7n1bqCkObnnrCTzYK0A#.VClrmEQJL8g.facebook


----------



## Jim-mi

Boy did that link cause problems on my puter.......had a very hard time backing out of it . . and it never loaded.

This "guy" must have an amazing backpack.Lots of pipe bombs, never ending supply of fancy cigs, shelter, food, water, diapers, rifle, bullets, cell phone with solar recharger, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.................

All on his back . . . . . . . . .???????????????

Super Amazing..................


----------



## handymama

Must be Doras big brother.


----------



## Becka03

Jim-mi said:


> Boy did that link cause problems on my puter.......had a very hard time backing out of it . . and it never loaded.
> 
> This "guy" must have an amazing backpack.Lots of pipe bombs, never ending supply of fancy cigs, shelter, food, water, diapers, rifle, bullets, cell phone with solar recharger, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.................
> 
> All on his back . . . . . . . . .???????????????
> 
> Super Amazing..................



I am sorry- I clicked it in my own post- and it takes me to our local news website?


----------



## Ernie

Jim-mi said:


> Boy did that link cause problems on my puter.......had a very hard time backing out of it . . and it never loaded.
> 
> This "guy" must have an amazing backpack.Lots of pipe bombs, never ending supply of fancy cigs, shelter, food, water, diapers, rifle, bullets, cell phone with solar recharger, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.................
> 
> All on his back . . . . . . . . .???????????????
> 
> Super Amazing..................


At this point ... how is Bear Grylls NOT a suspect?

If this guy survives, he needs his own television show. I'd watch it.


----------



## unregistered353870

Jim-mi said:


> Boy did that link cause problems on my puter.......had a very hard time backing out of it . . and it never loaded.
> 
> This "guy" must have an amazing backpack.Lots of pipe bombs, never ending supply of fancy cigs, shelter, food, water, diapers, rifle, bullets, cell phone with solar recharger, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.................
> 
> All on his back . . . . . . . . .???????????????
> 
> Super Amazing..................


He could have cached all those things ahead of time. But that takes away from the theory that he was trying to make his getaway in the Jeep when he unintentionally drove it into the pond. I'm not sure if that was an official police theory or one made up by the media.


----------



## light rain

If you have the right equipment you can recharge cellphones without hooking up to the grid. We bought them as presents one year and they came in handy.


----------



## unregistered353870

To indulge the conspiracy angle a little bit, this would make more sense to me than the call not having happened: Frein is dead, but the guy that killed him made the call with Frein's phone to make the police think he was still alive. That would actually explain why the caller didn't let the call go through. If Frein's family answered the phone, they would know it wasn't his voice. The real killer could make the call while driving nearby (ETA: or standing guard nearby if it's a cop) and then pop the battery out of the phone and be long gone very quickly.

I do believe the police have spotted him alive, though. Just a gut feeling. I don't think they would admit that he was toying with them if he weren't...it hurts their ego. But it's been a while since any reported sightings that I'm aware of.


----------



## Becka03

Ernie said:


> At this point ... how is Bear Grylls NOT a suspect?
> 
> If this guy survives, he needs his own television show. I'd watch it.



OMGosh- LOL I literally laughed outloud


----------



## Roadking

Police claim sightings will no longer be publicized...and a confirmed "flash - bang" device discharged.
Search stays in the same "general" area, despite the headline.
http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-eric-frein-search-shifts-20140929-story.html

Matt


----------



## Roadking

It also has triggered a scam; calls requesting monetary help to support the search effort, which has been announced by the police that it does not, and will not happen.
Some folks can't resists a chance to deceive and profit from a disaster...sad.

Matt


----------



## Roadking

This will make it interesting...
http://wnep.com/2014/09/29/game-commission-allowing-hunting-in-search-areas/
Archery season open on October 3rd.
Matt


----------



## BlueRose

Even with the hunters wearing orange, I hope there is no accidents. I am glad you and your family have been able to stay safe.


----------



## unregistered353870

Sounds like they're hoping a hunter will stumble upon him, since they're pretty helpless on their own. If Frein gets wind of this, he might decide to kill a hunter to take their blaze orange and maybe their car keys after finding out where they parked.


----------



## Roadking

Maybe use the hunters to drive him out?
Your thought crossed my mind as well jtbrandt.

Matt


----------



## 7thswan

Never know, the pTB might cancel hunting season. For their own good ,you know.


----------



## Ernie

jtbrandt said:


> Sounds like they're hoping a hunter will stumble upon him, since they're pretty helpless on their own. If Frein gets wind of this, he might decide to kill a hunter to take their blaze orange and maybe their car keys after finding out where they parked.


Assuming Frein is the guilty party and still alive ...

Clearly he's not a murderer of the public and of no threat to them. He's undoubtedly had dozens upon dozens of opportunities to shoot someone else. In fact, he's probably had plenty of opportunities to shoot ANOTHER COP and didn't.

He targeted those cops for a specific reason. At this point, the only reason any of you think he is a threat to the public is because the police (always a threat to the public) are telling you so.

BREAK YOUR CONDITIONING.


----------



## unregistered353870

He may not WANT to kill non-police, but that doesn't mean we can be sure he won't do it if he gets desperate. It's a heck of lot smarter (for those actually in the area) to assume that he might be dangerous than to conclude that he definitely isn't. This is a survival forum, isn't it?

Burying your head in the sand and ignoring a potential threat is a great way to get yourself killed. Of course, this won't affect most of us so directly, but Roadking is right there in the midst of it. If Frein knocked on his door, it would be absolutely stupid to invite him in for a cup of coffee because he "isn't a threat to the public."

I could just as easily tell you to break your conditioning...yours just happens to lead you to believe the government is the only enemy. It's not true. There are bad people out there who are not part of the government, and even some who hate it as much as you do. The enemy of your enemy is NOT necessarily your friend.

Anyway, so much for not announcing their sightings of him...they said today that they saw him yesterday. And they say they found two pipe bombs in the area.


----------



## Jim-mi

Ya I saw those "pipes" on the news . . . . .

Yet another easy too "plant" item.......

Had to chuckle as the boot speaking head read his plead to the guy to give up.


----------



## Roadking

Yup, sightings, pipe bombs and other unspecified evidence found.
http://wnep.com/2014/09/30/more-evidence-pipe-bombs-left-behind-by-frein/

And I am just as concerned about the police as I am of the shooter. They've been out there searching for 18 days...19 starting now, with nothing to show. I'm sure they must be getting a tad impatient by now...Good point jtbrandt (types while drinking a cup of tea...LOL!)

Matt

PS I'm guessing the deer have been pretty much run out of the area, and the only hunters that will be there will not be focusing on venison...just my thoughts.


----------



## AngieM2

Today is the first time I've seen it on Good Morning America's national news.


----------



## Roadking

I believe he is now #1 on the FBI's wanted list...forget where I heard it.

Matt

And I have to pass thru Cresco today...adding time for the drive and delays.


----------



## AngieM2

Stay aware.


----------



## Jim-mi

. . ."Eric . . Our troopers resolve is very strong" . . . . .

And what would scare me is that the troopers trigger fingers have gotten Very itchy-twitchy...........

I question the safety of any "hunter" in the area even in full orange.......

After all this while of toting those "pipe B's" around he just "leaves" a couple to taunt the boots . . . . . .How convenient .........


----------



## Forerunner

Ernie said:


> Assuming Frein is the guilty party and still alive ...
> 
> Clearly he's not a murderer of the public and of no threat to them. He's undoubtedly had dozens upon dozens of opportunities to shoot someone else. In fact, he's probably had plenty of opportunities to shoot ANOTHER COP and didn't.
> 
> He targeted those cops for a specific reason. At this point, the only reason any of you think he is a threat to the public is because the police (always a threat to the public) are telling you so.
> 
> BREAK YOUR CONDITIONING.


Preach it, Brother.


----------



## Forerunner

Bit of a difference between building a shrine for the guy and simply not buying the hype.



jtbrandt said:


> He may not WANT to kill non-police, but that doesn't mean we can be sure he won't do it if he gets desperate. It's a heck of lot smarter (for those actually in the area) to assume that he might be dangerous than to conclude that he definitely isn't. This is a survival forum, isn't it?
> 
> Burying your head in the sand and ignoring a potential threat is a great way to get yourself killed. Of course, this won't affect most of us so directly, but Roadking is right there in the midst of it. If Frein knocked on his door, it would be absolutely stupid to invite him in for a cup of coffee because he "isn't a threat to the public."
> 
> I could just as easily tell you to break your conditioning...yours just happens to lead you to believe the government is the only enemy. It's not true. There are bad people out there who are not part of the government, and even some who hate it as much as you do. The enemy of your enemy is NOT necessarily your friend.
> 
> Anyway, so much for not announcing their sightings of him...they said today that they saw him yesterday. And they say they found two pipe bombs in the area.


----------



## TripleD

I have been reading this thread since day one. He's either not there or the leo's have the worst tracking dogs in the country.


----------



## beaglebiz

TripleD said:


> I have been reading this thread since day one. He's either not there or the leo's have the worst tracking dogs in the country.


I have been thinking the same thing. I cant imagine a dog would not have been able to track him over this 18 day period. I dont live too far from Roadking.


----------



## Ernie

beaglebiz said:


> I have been thinking the same thing. I cant imagine a dog would not have been able to track him over this 18 day period. I dont live too far from Roadking.


It means he isn't moving around. If you don't move around, you don't leave tracks for dogs to follow.

It's E&E 101. If you're being tracked, you go to ground and wait it out, if possible. If he has supplies cached, or some third-party is helping him, then he can wait this out FOR YEARS. Sit at home and read about himself on the internet.

I still think he may be dead. I think this is a conspiracy limited to maybe 1 or 2 other people. Some cop or several cops had an internal beef with the guy who got shot and killed and set him up to be the patsy.

Regardless, there's no solid evidence he did it at all. Finding a jeep, some ID, and some shell casings (one of the most common calibers in the world) is no evidence at all. And if he did decide to run for it, then more power to him. That's no evidence of guilt either. The Supreme Court even ruled that fleeing arrest is not evidence of guilt.

If Frein is alive, then he may very well be sipping Mai Tai's on a beach somewhere with DB Cooper.


----------



## Roadking

No biggie time wise. About every 100 feet or so was an armed (to the teeth) LEO. Saw 4 choppers (PA and NY), cruisers, armored vehicles (again, both PA and NY), Lots of unidentified vehicles, Marshals, etc. but they didn't even give me a second look.
Very little traffic as well.
IF he is still there, I'm guessing he found a cave to hole up in.
Game Commission has changed their minds...the search area is not to be hunted.

Matt


----------



## BlueRose

Glad everyone up in that area are staying safe.


----------



## unregistered353870

Forerunner said:


> Bit of a difference between building a shrine for the guy and simply not buying the hype.


There certainly is. I know which side of that I am. I'm not buying the hype, but I'm also not stretching my imagination to its limits to come up with an explanation for what's happening in PA right now. Sometimes the "bad guy" really is a bad guy (even if the police are also bad guys). In this case, he may or may not be.

Yes, the police lie. A lot. I think they have lied several times during this manhunt. It is also unfair to convict the guy in the court of public opinion. But none of that changes the potential threat. Even an innocent guy on the run might be pushed to desperate measures. I think it's silly to declare that he is no threat to the public. He might not be, but as far as I know, none of us here knows him and can make that judgment of his character.


----------



## Jim-mi

Just as well cancel the hunt.......

Any sane person capable to thinking would not want to be out in that area with all those paranoid jack boots.

ka-ching . .ka-ching goes the money for this charade.......

How will they spin it if the head jack boot finally says "Guess he ain't here" . . . .???????


----------



## unregistered353870

I've been wondering that myself. At what point will they give up? This can't go on indefinitely. Eric Rudolph was in the "wilderness" for five years before they got him by sheer luck. But they also weren't ever within 100 yards of him during their searches, as the police in this case keep claiming they are.


----------



## light rain

Seems like the truth is a hard reality for lots of folks these days...


----------



## Roadking

Day 20, and the circus continues...especially when this is the breaking news in the manhunt...
http://wnep.com/2014/10/01/two-troopers-flown-to-hospital-after-falling-from-tree-stand/

Matt


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## AngieM2

I almost wonder if the fellow is in the police hunting for himself. Since so many extras are around, why couldn't he dress the part of out of area cop, and hunt for himself?


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## Roadking

With all the talk of conspiracies, on the web, and around the towns...some think the killer may be among them...all sorts of different non local forces. Perhaps we'll never know.
Hunting season suspended in 7 townships.
Search moved 4 miles or so south, near Alpine mountain ski area...away from me...for now.
As I said, daily life goes on for us, but it's putting a hurt on tourism...lots of folk come up to see the foliage turn.

Matt


----------



## Ernie

AngieM2 said:


> I almost wonder if the fellow is in the police hunting for himself. Since so many extras are around, why couldn't he dress the part of out of area cop, and hunt for himself?


What would possibly be the point to that?

Think it through.

If he did it, then clearly he only had a beef with those specific cops that were shot, or maybe the one that was killed. So now that he accomplished his goal, his next goal would be to make a successful withdrawal. That would have been best accomplished immediately, before his face was plastered all over the news. A person who planned this for years would have made sure they had the means to leave the area and a new identity waiting for them across the border.

If he DIDN'T do it, then he would have been behind the curve when his picture flashed up on the news. No preparation at all, but it doesn't take a genius to figure that 5,000 cops wanting to murder you for retribution, and a general public advocating that the forest be burned down around your heads ... you've got to get somewhere else safe. So he's going to go to ground at a trusted friend's place, an abandoned place, or get out of the area. Reenactors are a big club. He might have shown up at someone's door in the middle of the night in Idaho, or Quebec. Or Detroit for that matter. Nobody is looking for him in Detroit.

He isn't a Batman villain. This isn't the Joker they're looking for. Hide and blend in with the cops? Probably the ONLY people who see this guy's face every day are cops in their morning briefing. I could eat breakfast with him at the cafe in town and not recognize him. 

This is all going on the assumption that he's still alive. The weird info that has come out so far about the police involved makes me suspect he's not. Everything from a filed police report on corruption within the force (filed by the cop who was killed) to a bizarre love triangle.


----------



## Roadking

Running with your previous idea Ernie, that Frein was set up and is dead in the woods somewhere, and whomever did that is getting the jollies messing with LE...since they wouldn't be looking for said person.
Some folks thrive on teasing their opponents...what could be a better situation?
Again, all theory, no backing.

Matt


----------



## Ernie

Roadking said:


> Running with your previous idea Ernie, that Frein was set up and is dead in the woods somewhere, and whomever did that is getting the jollies messing with LE...since they wouldn't be looking for said person.
> Some folks thrive on teasing their opponents...what could be a better situation?
> Again, all theory, no backing.
> 
> Matt


Yeah, but if it were me doing that teasing ... I'd be calling in sightings and such and watching the police jump through hoops. Impersonating a police officer is a serious crime that could land you in prison all on its own. 

But I'm (relatively) sane and looking at it from a sane risk/reward perspective.


----------



## Jim-mi

. . . "Sane" . . . . .
Thats why I sure wouldn't want to be hunting in that area . . . .

Because; After this amount of time, I highly question the "sanity" of all those jack boots.
I don't want to be around to tempt them.

Just hope and pray for the safety of Matt & family and all the local folks from any knee-jerk reaction from all those "sane???" jack-boots.


----------



## Roadking

Okay...search is now 4 miles north of original...where 390 meets I84...as well as the 4 miles south of original...a much larger search area.
Around 1000 LEOs "are closing in" as the choppers keep changing direction past our place.
More vehicles...marked and "unmarked" (funny they thing they blend in, IMO) Hauling this way and that...Isn't it law that if en route and exceeding speed limit, light need to be on? If so, they aren't playing by the rules.
Might be an interesting night...until I go to sleep, that is.
Getting monotonous while still being disturbing. Seems like tips are tossing the search this way and that...LE really doesn't have a clue, IMO.

Matt


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## AngieM2

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10202895457043625&fref=nfhttps://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10202895457043625&fref=nf


is this how many cops are out there along some of the roads?


Well, it's a video on Facebook that is of cops parked within sight of each other along the road.


----------



## unregistered353870

Roadking said:


> Getting monotonous while still being disturbing. Seems like tips are tossing the search this way and that...LE really doesn't have a clue, IMO.
> 
> Matt


Yeah, it sure seems like if they ever did have him confined, they don't anymore. I would like to know more about how sure they are of the supposed sightings of him. The eyes can play tricks on you if you're looking hard enough.


----------



## Roadking

When I went thru the other day, about every 100 feet an armed LEO. Pockets of vehicles. Looks like they recently set up a mobile cell tower...a sting ray I believe they call it. I dont' "do" facebook, even tho my account is still there...i'm getting a lot of info personally and from PAFOA dot com...Pennsylvania fire Arms owners...about 3400 posts on this...many closer to the scene than I am.
And yes, I'd say 1000 is appropriate. Local LE not being informed of operations...they get their info from face book, e-mail, etc...(friend is in local LE...cant give official info, but what other LEOs are "saying"...he's exhausted, by the way).

Chopper just went by...heading south. Cruisers went by...heading north. I'm going to bed. Hope to have some info tomorrow...the eve of hunting season.

It's, sadly, becoming part of normal life...acknowledge and keep going on. They haven't caused me or mine any problems, but can see where they could easily overstep their bounds. Not a good call on their part in these parts. Closing hunting and trapping season for 7 townships is not going over very well...go figure.

Matt

And for the skeptic on board...complacency does not exist around this household. I expect full compliance on their part if it goes that way.


----------



## unregistered353870

Sources "close to the investigation" are now saying the diapers they found may not be related to the case at all. The official police spokesman refuses to discuss the DNA. Not surprised by that. They probably jumped the gun on this "evidence" and are now hoping people will forget about it.


----------



## Ernie

jtbrandt said:


> Sources "close to the investigation" are now saying the diapers they found may not be related to the case at all. The official police spokesman refuses to discuss the DNA. Not surprised by that. They probably jumped the gun on this "evidence" and are now hoping people will forget about it.


How many points did I win for calling that one a few pages back?


----------



## unregistered353870

Ernie said:


> How many points did I win for calling that one a few pages back?


I never was sold on the diaper thing because it doesn't make sense to me to do that, but you get some points for calling it. Still remains to be seen, but I won't be surprised if they never mention the diapers again.

You'll really get some points if somehow it comes out that a cop was the real murderer.


----------



## Ernie

jtbrandt said:


> I never was sold on the diaper thing because it doesn't make sense to me to do that, but you get some points for calling it. Still remains to be seen, but I won't be surprised if they never mention the diapers again.
> 
> You'll really get some points if somehow it comes out that a cop was the real murderer.


Unlikely we'd ever know that. They haven't even looked at that possibility.


----------



## unregistered353870

Ernie said:


> Unlikely we'd ever know that. They haven't even looked at that possibility.


I agree. That's why I hope Frein turns up alive. At least then we might hear his side of the story. If he admits to doing it on his own, that will mean something, though there are false confessions too.


----------



## Roadking

Day 22, a "camp site" was found...the picture looks completely staged...also too clean for 21 days in use.

http://wnep.com/2014/10/03/state-police-list-new-details-in-search-for-eric-frein/

And they are almost giving the go ahead for individuals to go vigilante...

"Now state police say if a hunter encounters Frein in the woods elsewhere they should try to call 911.
But if that&#8217;s not possible, &#8220;In Pennsylvania if someone has reason to believe their life is in imminent danger, they have the ability and the right to protect themselves.&#8221;"

Looks to me like the police want this over...wether the guy is guilty or not.

Matt


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## Ernie

Roadking said:


> But if thatâs not possible, âIn Pennsylvania if someone has reason to believe their life is in imminent danger, they have the ability and the right to protect themselves.â"


INCLUDING Frein.

If he's innocent and hiding in the woods and a hunter finds him and points a gun at him, Frein has every right to kill that hunter.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Ernie said:


> INCLUDING Frein.
> 
> If he's innocent and hiding in the woods and a hunter finds him and points a gun at him, Frein has every right to kill that hunter.



I think the police would tell you that if your the #2 most wanted person on the FBI most wanted list that you have the right to surrender and or maybe call you lawyer and arranged for a surrender but that the way they see it is you have no rights till yo surrender and they read you your rights 

but arguing your god given rights with a goverment devoted to taking them is really just a waste of time if you happen to be "wanted dead or alive"


----------



## Ernie

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I think the police would tell you that if your the #2 most wanted person on the FBI most wanted list that you have the right to surrender and or maybe call you lawyer and arranged for a surrender but that the way they see it is you have no rights till yo surrender and they read you your rights
> 
> but arguing your god given rights with a goverment devoted to taking them is really just a waste of time if you happen to be "wanted dead or alive"


Agreed. But remember the case of John Bad Elk.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/177/529/case.html

Basically, if a COP pointed his gun at Frein and intended to shoot to kill in an unjust way (as they often do) then Frein is legally justified to kill the cop.

From an ethics perspective, I definitely follow the quote of "someone tries to kill you then you try to kill them right back". I don't care if they have a badge from the state or out of a Cracker-Jack box.

But from a legal standpoint, might makes right. They have the most guns, the most people, the media, the courts, and the prisons. So government does whatever government wants to do.


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## unregistered353870

Roadking said:


> Day 22, a "camp site" was found...the picture looks completely staged...also too clean for 21 days in use.
> 
> http://wnep.com/2014/10/03/state-police-list-new-details-in-search-for-eric-frein/
> 
> And they are almost giving the go ahead for individuals to go vigilante...
> 
> "Now state police say *if a hunter encounters Frein in the woods elsewhere* they should try to call 911.
> But if thatâs not possible, âIn Pennsylvania if someone has reason to believe their life is in imminent danger, they have the ability and the right to protect themselves.â"
> 
> Looks to me like the police want this over...wether the guy is guilty or not.
> 
> Matt


Sounds like they're also admitting they have no confidence that he's in the area where they're looking for him.


----------



## unregistered353870

Ernie said:


> INCLUDING Frein.
> 
> If he's innocent and hiding in the woods and a hunter finds him and points a gun at him, Frein has every right to kill that hunter.


That's where this gets very dicey. I'd stay out of the woods just to avoid the conundrum.

This is assuming it's public land. On private property it becomes more clear.


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## Ernie

jtbrandt said:


> That's where this gets very dicey. I'd stay out of the woods just to avoid the conundrum.
> 
> This is assuming it's public land. On private property it becomes more clear.


On private property the law does not necessarily default to the landowner. You can't just shoot anyone who comes on your property and if I point a gun at a stranger who just happens to have gotten lost and crossed a fenceline without knowing it then he has the right to defend himself, even if he's in the wrong spot.

I don't think Frein would have a chance in court though if he shot anyone from this point. It's not likely he'd have a jury of Ernie up there willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## unregistered353870

Ernie said:


> On private property the law does not necessarily default to the landowner. You can't just shoot anyone who comes on your property and if I point a gun at a stranger who just happens to have gotten lost and crossed a fenceline without knowing it then he has the right to defend himself, even if he's in the wrong spot.
> 
> I don't think Frein would have a chance in court though if he shot anyone from this point. It's not likely he'd have a jury of Ernie up there willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.


Yeah, the private property would make it more clear, but not completely clear. It changes the dynamic of the interaction, since the trespasser has no right to be there, even if it's accidental trespass.

I like to think it would be extremely difficult to convict anyone of any crime with me on the jury, but I'm the type the prosecutors know to avoid during jury selection. I've been called for jury duty twice, and didn't overtly show my bias against the prosecution, but I think they can sense it. Didn't get selected for a jury either time.



Ernie said:


> Agreed. But remember the case of John Bad Elk.
> 
> https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/177/529/case.html


I've been reading up on the John Bad Elk case because I wasn't familiar with it. The situation in PA is very different, because there is a warrant for Frein's arrest. That doesn't mean the police can shoot him on sight, but they are authorized to use the force necessary to bring him into custody.


----------



## Ernie

jtbrandt said:


> I've been reading up on the John Bad Elk case because I wasn't familiar with it. The situation in PA is very different, because there is a warrant for Frein's arrest. That doesn't mean the police can shoot him on sight, but they are authorized to use the force necessary to bring him into custody.


Which means they WILL shoot him on sight.


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## unregistered353870

Won't surprise me too much if they do, but won't surprise me if they don't either. If it's true that they've seen him within 100 yards several times, they probably could have shot him by now. I'm not really convinced of their sightings though.


----------



## Jim-mi

Matt I hope that you don't go hunting. Cause if they have unleashed the hunters then there is bound to be an element of dumb-dumbs who think that if they shoot "that nasty dude Eric" they will have their 15 minutes in the spot light....they will have itchy trigger fingers.........
Some very innocent people could well be...... BIG HURT......

The killing shot was determined to at 200 yards.......

. . . . . ."But I would swear on a stack of bibles that it was Eric F" . . . . . . . . .

Very bad move by the jackboots........


----------



## Roadking

I don't hunt, but do enjoy venison...lots of friend hunt and bring me care packages...half for us, half for my jerky.
Nope, I just keep my daily routine...some work, some play...some whatever.
Surprised, and pleased, that there have been no (reported) shootings. Guessing the LEOs from out of state were advised that this is an open carry (and will issue CCL) commonwealth, and armed citizens are the norm.
Fire in the fireplace, game cameras on, no noise from helicopters...might be a good night's rest.

Matt


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## unregistered353870

Just read they drained the pond where his Jeep was found. I guess this was Thursday or Friday, but wasn't widely reported. I wonder if they're looking for something specific or just trying to keep busy to look like they're making progress.


----------



## Roadking

Nothing in the local media about the pond...but not surprised...I get more info from the U.K. and a local board than the "news" around here.
There was a mention of a positive ID on a trail cam...not media...local LEO...no pics seen by me, or him...just scuttle butt.

Matt


----------



## unregistered353870

The police also said in their news conference Friday that they aren't 100% sure that any of their sightings were actually Frein. I had a feeling they were stretching the truth at least a little on that. Now they are saying they have a high level of confidence that some of the sightings were him.


----------



## Roadking

Personally, I think they don't have a clue, but after "hunting" for three weeks, they can't save face and will continue. Sad, but I doubt the truth will ever come out.

Matt


----------



## Roadking

More "sightings" and police "rushing to the search area" from the local media, but folks I know over there are calling it bunk. This afternoon, the police were facing (and pointing the search lights) the west side of 447, when for the past 22 days they were working the east side of the road.
Either they are completely clueless or he just might be getting closer to me...oh well, another day in paradise...which is where I will be going tomorrow or Tuesday...paradise township.

Matt


----------



## AngieM2

Heck of a good game of hide and seek.


----------



## Ernie

AngieM2 said:


> Heck of a good game of hide and seek.


----------



## Becka03

this is getting ridiculous-


----------



## unregistered353870

"Sources" are reporting police found a letter written by Frein detailing how he shot the troopers. Police are refusing to comment on it. Sounds shady, like it would be awfully convenient to have a written confession before the suspect ends up dead. But it all depends on whether they can prove he wrote that letter, if it even exists.

ETA: Police are now acknowledging they found a handwritten note that they believe was written by Frein.


----------



## AngieM2

This really is starting to smell like the cleaning of a fish 3 days later.


----------



## Jim-mi

It had that stench many many days ago . . . . . . .lol

Good thought jtbrandt. . . . . . A piece of "evidence" never to be seen by the public . . .but the boots "claim" it to be a hot item . . . . .
want to dispute them . . .????
Heard on the news last night that "they" found 90 rounds of .308 ammo that he "left behind" . . . .WOW

I would bet my last wooden nickle that....
Going on behind very closed doors; . . .Exit strategy . . how to save face . . .


----------



## Roadking

Also, 10 dirty gun patches at a friends apartment...
Love the fact that they tell CNN, and not local media (to cover their backs maybe as most info comes from quite a distance anymore).
IF he's here, heck of a hide and seeker.
IF he's not, LEO looks bad.
IF he's dead in a ditch or in secret custody (tin foil)...we'll probably never know.
None of this lessens the police presence in the area...currently (last I heard), they are searching properties in Swiftwater...about 10 minutes or so south of original location...but plenty of "unmarked" and marked vehicles out and about.
Perhaps, LE should just shut up, shut down, and in a week, dancing with the stars will be the headline again and they won't lose face...except locally. We have pretty good memories.

Matt

ETA...for what it's worth, local report of the CNN story...
http://wnep.com/2014/10/06/search-warrants-and-letters-give-more-details-on-frein-investigation/
Pretty much throwing a bone when locals getting annoyed with the circus..."Look, a new shiny piece of info...(that we found a while ago...or made up)" Yes, I am a skeptic. But a skeptic that will wait until I'm sure my family is safe before I get too comfortable.

BTW, my friend who is local LE informed me that what little he knows can't be shared any more...? I know the guy, for some time now. He said it almost apologetically...almost like he wanted to say something else, but decided better not to. Makes for some interesting thoughts.


----------



## AngieM2

While reading Matt's last post, it crossed my mind. "What are they really looking for". I've been reading too many spy, or emp and afterwards type of books.

But this is sure sounding somewhat like Clive Cussler, Tom Clancy, or some such thing. 
Yep, now I wonder if the are canvasing the area for pot, or other more dangerous stuff/people than the one that they have been talking about so much.

Why not?


----------



## Roadking

Local LE knows little and is saying less.
They seem to be the outer perimitter while FBI, ATF, Marshalls, and whatever other agencies are around work the inside perimitter...That was the last bit of info I was begrudgingly given.
Clive Cussler...I'm currently holding a copy of "The Sea Hunters"...great writing, and good for the adventurer, as well as his fiction works.
That was weird timing, BTW.

Matt


----------



## Ernie

jtbrandt said:


> "Sources" are reporting police found a letter written by Frein detailing how he shot the troopers. Police are refusing to comment on it. Sounds shady, like it would be awfully convenient to have a written confession before the suspect ends up dead. But it all depends on whether they can prove he wrote that letter, if it even exists.
> 
> ETA: Police are now acknowledging they found a handwritten note that they believe was written by Frein.


Was it tucked inside a dirty diaper?


----------



## unregistered353870

Police are still officially refusing to confirm the note/letter, but the sources are supposedly high level state law enforcement. Anonymous sources, so it could just be BS.


----------



## Ernie

jtbrandt said:


> Police are still officially refusing to confirm the note/letter, but the sources are supposedly high level state law enforcement. Anonymous sources, so it could just be BS.


Sort of like all that brand-new camping equipment and ramen noodles they found?


----------



## unregistered353870

Ernie said:


> Sort of like all that brand-new camping equipment and ramen noodles they found?


Not sure what you're getting at. Didn't the police officials release those pictures?


----------



## scooter

The picture of the ramen noodles and camping gear looked staged.


----------



## Ernie

scooter said:


> The picture of the ramen noodles and camping gear looked staged.


They at least took the price tags off.


----------



## unregistered353870

Oh, I understand now. But the letter is different, since rather than presenting it to the media to help their "case" they are refusing to acknowledge it even exists.


----------



## Forerunner

Ah, yes.......the old "refuse to acknowledge that it even exists" ploy.

That one usually manages to convince even the most hardened of scoffers......but alas, the curtain grows thinner by the minute, everywhere.


----------



## unregistered353870

Essentially, no matter what the police say (or don't say) people are going to believe whatever they want to believe. If the police say they have evidence, they're lying. If they won't confirm the existence of certain evidence, that's a double fake-out to convince people they do have it.

If the police announced today that they cleared Eric Frein as a suspect, a lot of people who have been thinking he's an innocent patsy would immediately jump to the other side and say he's guilty as sin. Believing something is false because the police say it is about the same as believing something is true because the police say it. Neither is a reasonable approach.


----------



## Forerunner

That is the nature of a consistant tangled web of lies.

Eventually, credibility is lost.


----------



## unregistered353870

That's why it's important to really think about things to determine what makes sense and what has the ring of truth. Just listening to what the government says and assuming the opposite is true will probably make you right about 75% of the time, but wrong when they do occasionally tell the truth. It does happen...sometimes the truth is more advantageous to them than lies.


----------



## Forerunner

There is more than one lesson in the story of the boy who cried wolf .


----------



## unregistered353870

They've now released excerpts from the note. Very strange.


----------



## Roadking

Claim they found a handwritten journal at a campsite...last week. In a rock crevice with remains of a campfire and blanket.
Awaiting handwriting authentication.
http://wnep.com/2014/10/08/freins-handwritten-journal-on-attack-revealed/


Matt


----------



## Roadking

Border patrol now using a Blackhawk heli and flying treetop level, along with, 6 that I've seen, state police helis. NY, NJ, PA, and now DE troopers, FBI, Marshals, BATFE, and so on...wish I had a lunch truck.
Halloween cancelled, parade postponed for Barret Township...it was to be their 50th.

Matt


----------



## Forerunner

I hope they have an heroic finale written into the script.

There is no other way for the expense, effort and charadary to be justified.


----------



## AngieM2

Halloween canceled? it's 21 days out. That is STUPID. Not saying a good bit of the rest of that circus is not also stupid.

Sorry, Roadking, but at least you have ring side seats at the circus happening up there.


----------



## Jim-mi

The "Heroic Finale" is too include a very dead body . . . . . 
If in fact it is Eric F out there his side of the event will NEVER be told........

And the jack boots will be thumping their collective chests saying "See we gots our man"


----------



## AngieM2

I wonder, if he were smart, if he could write his side down and make a couple of copies.

Then mail to at least two or more newspapers or tv stations. Or a reporter direct. Or a lawyer he may think is reasonable honorable.

At least if something happens to him. There may be a chance of his side getting out.


----------



## unregistered353870

The retired FBI agent who was in charge of the Eric Rudolph manhunt said recently in an interview that he doubts the supposed sightings of Frein and thinks the searchers need to look outside the woods. Of course I'd take his advice with a grain of salt, since his five years of looking never turned up his target. But he may see them making the same mistakes he made but didn't realize it at the time.

Cancelling Halloween is really stupid. Sounds like they don't have much confidence that they're close to finding him. Or they just want to amp up the drama of their manhunt.


----------



## Ernie

jtbrandt said:


> Cancelling Halloween is really stupid. Sounds like they don't have much confidence that they're close to finding him. Or they just want to amp up the drama of their manhunt.


Think about it.

They must secretly believe that either the public supports him, or is even hiding him. Therefore they want to inflict as much misery and suffering on the public as they can in order to get someone to give up Frein.


----------



## kycountry

I'm sorry for the families involved in this, but this is getting weird... 

Seems google does have the answer to everything..

He googles "how to evade a man hunt" and has lasted over 3 weeks and they still have no clue where he is.. 1000+ to 1 is his odds, seems an ol' boy that knows his surroundings still out trump 1000 jack boots with all the training and book smarts, just lacking common sense to use it..


----------



## Sawmill Jim

I bet he has bruises on his fingers where some cop stepped on him :bored:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2BpfGAUy_Q[/ame]


----------



## unregistered353870

Ernie said:


> Think about it.
> 
> They must secretly believe that either the public supports him, or is even hiding him. Therefore they want to inflict as much misery and suffering on the public as they can in order to get someone to give up Frein.


That's quite a stretch. More likely they're just trying (poorly) to make it look like they're doing something to protect the public, since the public is probably losing confidence in their abilities.

The public absolutely doesn't support Frein and the police know that. Even though the cops are bumbling idiots causing people a lot of inconvenience, the general public will always side with cops over cop-killers...and yes, I guarantee the vast majority of the public in that area believes Frein is a cop-killer, right or wrong.

Cancelling Halloween is laughable when looked at as a way to inflict misery and suffering on the public. It's a minor annoyance. If a person was hiding Frein, would they be so uncommitted as to turn him in because they can't go trick or treating?


----------



## Jim-mi

I would support anybody until they have been able to have their say in a court of their peers . . . . . .

And not a biased kangeroo court. 

The way things have gone thus far with all the jackboots fabrications and antics, tell me where could a person such as Eric F EVER get a fair unbiased trial.......

It wont happen

Dead bodies are not very articulate........


----------



## Helena

I don't understand some of these comments. This man killed another man.. a State Trooper for no reason.. NONE..Even if he thought he had a reason...


----------



## Ernie

Jim-mi said:


> I would support anybody until they have been able to have their say in a court of their peers . . . . . .
> 
> And not a biased kangeroo court.
> 
> The way things have gone thus far with all the jackboots fabrications and antics, tell me where could a person such as Eric F EVER get a fair unbiased trial.......
> 
> It wont happen
> 
> Dead bodies are not very articulate........


That's not the way cops (and the government thinks). If you're not for them, you're against them.

Anyone who shows less than 100% solidarity to their claims is supporting Frein.


----------



## Forerunner

Helena said:


> I don't understand some of these comments. This man killed another man.. a State Trooper for no reason.. NONE..Even if he thought he had a reason...


None of your assumptions have been proven in a court of law, like it or not.


----------



## Jim-mi

Helena . .Do you know for a absolute fact that he, Eric F, was the trigger puller . . .???

You are falling right in with what the jackboots have fed you . . . . . .

Have the jackboots been 100% truthful in this event . . ????


----------



## beaglebiz

Helena...we dont know if he committed the crime. To be truthful, it appears he may have been set up. Im convinced he is going to turn up dead, maybe even murdered by the one that set him up or will be killed by an overzealous law enforcement officer with an itchy trigger finger. If that happens, we will never know the truth.


----------



## unregistered353870

Helena said:


> I don't understand some of these comments. This man killed another man.. a State Trooper for no reason.. NONE..Even if he thought he had a reason...


This post demonstrates exactly what I was talking about in my last post. There are lot more people who think this than think Frein is a patsy. That's why the police still have the support of the vast majority of the public. Helena represents normal people. You guys are aware that you're not normal, right? Few of us here in S&EP are normal, but some of us are even less normal. No offense intended...in fact, I think it's probably a compliment.


----------



## kycountry

Sawmill Jim said:


> I bet he has bruises on his fingers where some cop stepped on him :bored:


You wouldn't believe how easy it is to trick the human eye using burlap and your surroundings...

BUT a GOOD track dog would have him bayed up in less than 2 days if in fact he is in that 5 square miles....


----------



## unregistered353870

kycountry said:


> You wouldn't believe how easy it is to trick the human eye using burlap and your surroundings...
> 
> BUT a GOOD track dog would have him bayed up in less than 2 days if in fact he is in that 5 square miles....


True, but the police probably don't have good tracking dogs. They spend most of their dog money on the drug war, and a lot of those dogs are just trained to indicate in order to give the police probable cause where it doesn't really exist.


----------



## Sawmill Jim

kycountry said:


> You wouldn't believe how easy it is to trick the human eye using burlap and your surroundings...
> 
> BUT a GOOD track dog would have him bayed up in less than 2 days if in fact he is in that 5 square miles....


Bet that is why they canceled trick or treat, they are afraid if he is still around he could just blend in with a few goblins and leave town :hobbyhors They got way to many cops around to start with . Be a better idea to with draw from the area ,wait till the end of the year and let the IRS go after him for no health insurance :heh:


----------



## kycountry

I really don't get it... I don't think they want to catch him....

All they have to do is google 

"how to catch a man that knows how to evade a man hunt"
or
"where is Eric F."

:bored:


----------



## beaglebiz

Jtbrandt.. They are using borrowed dogs in addition to their own. The pa state police have the resources of the FBI at their disposal.


----------



## kycountry

beaglebiz said:


> Jtbrandt.. They are using borrowed dogs in addition to their own. The pa state police have the resources of the FBI at their disposal.


well, on the bright side, it's good to know they don't have any good dogs either... :yawn:


----------



## Roadking

No new info, just more of the same.

Matt


----------



## unregistered353870

I would guess federal dogs are probably mostly trained for explosives. For good tracking dogs they probably have to hire in an outside handler and dogs, which they seem unwilling to do. They could also bring in a human tracker like Tom Brown, but probably don't want to admit they don't know what they're doing.


----------



## Forerunner

Tom Brown would take one short look at the jackboot-plowed landscape, turn around and walk off muttering unmentionable derogatories about institutionalized idiots.


----------



## unregistered353870

Forerunner said:


> Tom Brown would take one short look at the jackboot-plowed landscape, turn around and walk off muttering unmentionable derogatories about institutionalized idiots.


I actually mentioned him because I saw an interview with him where he said they should have called him. I assume that means he was willing to help. He might have even reached out to them and offered his services, but I wasn't clear on that from the part of the interview I saw.


----------



## kycountry

jtbrandt said:


> I actually mentioned him because I saw an interview with him where he said they should have called him. I assume that means he was willing to help. He might have even reached out to them and offered his services, but I wasn't clear on that from the part of the interview I saw.


I think what they were implying in the post above yours is NO tracker on earth could actually track one mans activity after 1000 police officers has been wading through the area he would have to track him through..


----------



## unregistered353870

That makes sense. I think the interview I saw was about two weeks into the hunt, but he was probably saying they should have brought him in at the beginning. He's supposedly one of the best in the world. Maybe he could still help. I don't know. I am definitely not a good tracker. I only track cows, and my horses do most of the work of finding them.


----------



## Roadking

Friend who is a LEO in the area told me last night that they are no longer involved in the search. Feds told them to pack it in and go back to their jurisdiction. 
Main search area is the same, but frequently, they will rush 2 to 4 miles away...Don't really think they have a clue. 
So basically the feds are running the show and calling the shots. 
Media quiet.
Yesterday, 40 at night, 55 day. Today, 50 this morning, going to 70...rain...making the leaves wet. Leaves falling pretty quickly.

Matt


----------



## unregistered353870

I have to admit that I believed them early on when they said they were close...yeah, I'm a sucker....


----------



## Roadking

Just found out that they extended the school a week to compensate for the earlier shut down...allowing for snow days again.

Matt


----------



## AngieM2

Sorry that the circus keeps going on. 

It was interesting to hear what my Dad thought of this, he's believing all the media is feeding.


----------



## Jim-mi

Which is a huge part of this country's problems . . .Folks taking the medias spewings as the gospel truth .....

Has there been much of a reduction in the observed J boots on the ground . .?
Other that the pull out of the "local" LEO's

Any reason to believe this is part of a "quiet with draw" . . . .??


----------



## Ernie

Jim-mi said:


> Which is a huge part of this country's problems . . .Folks taking the medias spewings as the gospel truth .....
> 
> Has there been much of a reduction in the observed J boots on the ground . .?
> Other that the pull out of the "local" LEO's
> 
> Any reason to believe this is part of a "quiet with draw" . . . .??


I can't remember the quote or even who said it ... but it was very accurate.

It pointed out the problems with teaching people to read but yet not teaching them to actually think.

It's why we are in the situation we are in now. The government's educational model made everyone smart enough to read the propaganda, turn on their televisions, internet, and radio, and to work the machines at their jobs ... but yet not bright enough to actually go out into the world and recognize the big lies.


----------



## Roadking

Looks like about 300 on duty at any given time; 12 hour shifts, 1 to 2 days off.
Still plenty of out of state and in state trooper vehicles on the road. At least 1 black hawk heli (buzzed my place) and 2 to 4 police helis. Haven't been thru the serch area in a few days, but friends say it's sporadic...sometime hum vees and 20 to 40 trooper vehicles...sometimes...nada.
Reports of a trooper escort of a surveillance company (can't remember the name) a few days ago...rumors of them rigging the woods with cameras and audio.
Reported sightings are from trail cameras...not so much eye witnesses.
The longer it goes on, the odder it seems to be. No shots have been fired...at least not heard from by anyone I know.
Buddy and I said to heck with it...sighted in a few rifles at his place. He's closer than I am...within 5 minutes there were 3 trooper vehicles checking us out...they didn't even get out of their cars...just left. Guess they saw our shooting bench and decided they were in the wrong place... LOL!
My guess is either:
1: Holed up in one of the many caves
2: Already dead, not the shooter, but a patsy
3: Been long gone
4: About 6 out of 10 properties in that area are vacant...most have basements...might have risked hiding out in one of them that he had stocked
5: He's a danged good player of hide and seek

No matter which one it is, the Law is looking completely foolish...wether he is doing it, or this is a cover up fro something...really hard to tell, even with direct, not from the media, intel.

Life goes on...plus it was a good excuse to try buddy's new AR...LOL!

Matt


----------



## GoldenCityMuse

Wow, read this whole thread and am amazed. I think this story surpasses even the incompetance of the CDC w/ Ebola.

Earlier someone mentioned the police 'evidence' that Frein is the shooter.

Sorry to say, but after reading several stories from the innocence PRoject of falsely accused people being freed after years due to REAL evidence, I really do not trust most police info. Eyewitness evidence is some of the worst, and should not be relied upon. Physical evidence is much better. Except of course when the police lab fakes the report.


----------



## Roadking

Just now...gun fire close by. No Biggie, but a rather large explosion just occurred. At 1 am, the quarry in closed...guess I'm awake now. Blast was within 1/2 mile by the sound.

Matt

I'm about 1/4 mile outside the hunting restriction zone. Added...radio went nuts...static, muffled voices, silence...morse code, silence, and now nothing but dots and dashes. Maybe the end game is close. 
At 1 AM???
Radio ramping up again, and more gunfire. 

Matt


----------



## Roadking

I heard it on scanner, wife was listening on a web feed...
http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/7527/web

They were a bit different as I was listening to state police etc., and she was on county, but they bounced back and forth, and seemed pretty interested (read "concerned").

Matt


----------



## BlueRose

dang it cant get the link to work here.

Matt are you and your family okay?


----------



## Roadking

No new info, but a bigger presence here than usual. Scanner went quiet at 3. LEO friend told me that they probably went to cell phones and land lines.
Friend in the search area said the presence is larger, and they are checking vacant houses near the outer perimeter...looking in windows, not entering.

Thanks for asking BlueRose...we're okay.

Matt


----------



## unregistered353870

This could be simply an innocent reasonable measure, or it could be a dangerous jump. I don't know how the bill is worded, but the concern is that perhaps they could catch him and then conveniently "forget" to terminate the emergency declaration and use this authority for unrelated nefarious purposes in the future.



> A bill headed to Gov. Tom Corbett's desk would give police officers from other states the power to arrest alleged cop killer Eric Frien if they track him down within Pennsylvania borders.
> 
> According to a report on pennlive.com, the state Senate on Thursday unanimously passed a bill that would extend the arrest powers to out-of-state officers when the governor has declared an emergency and it would remain in effect until the disaster emergency declaration is terminated.


http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2014/10/eric_frein_manhunt_lawmakers_a.html


----------



## Jim-mi

Spose they were using flash-bang hardware in a "cave" . . ??

The supposed pipe things would not make the kind of noise you mentioned......


----------



## unregistered353870

I don't know...they looked to be larger than a hand grenade, and those are pretty dang loud.


----------



## beaglebiz

yesterdays local news (wnep)showed a man with a vacation house, with suspected blood drips on his porch. Im going to take a wild guess and say if it was blood, and frein's, the area would have been taped off and not allowed to be trampled on.

the second scrap of anything interesting was the state trooper saying "there is a perimeter, and nothing can get through the perimeter, and they are confident he is within. why dont they tighten it up a bit every hour. I dont understand why they are staying in the same spot, and not closing the circle. Unless, of course, its like Christmas to them for all the overtime standing neatly next to the squad car.


----------



## Jim-mi

. . "Standing neatly next to the squad car" . . . . . .

Ka-ching . .ka-ching. . . ka-ching . . . . .

bend over Joe Tax payer............


----------



## Roadking

If I understood my friend correctly, their pension is based on their highest monthly payroll... This has been a GOOD month for them in that respect.

Matt


----------



## light rain

But if the police weren't out there and the criminal, whoever they are, took a hostage or harmed someone, then there would be screaming about the donut eaters not doing their jobs. Puts LEO between a rock and a hard place... :flame:


----------



## beaglebiz

light rain said:


> But if the police weren't out there and the criminal, whoever they are, took a hostage or harmed someone, then there would be screaming about the donut eaters not doing their jobs. Puts LEO between a rock and a hard place... :flame:


why dont they close the circle? Its been a month for goodness sake...
one woman was on the news...she put a porta potty on her front lawn because they (police)were using her property as a toilet!


----------



## light rain

I don't know why they don't close the circle. But I am glad that none of my family are law officers. Apparently the bad guys hate them and the good guys also... A thankless, dangerous job.


----------



## lemonthyme7

Now saying there might have been a sighting near Swiftwater about 8 miles from where they had been searching.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/18/justice/pennsylvania-trooper-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


----------



## beaglebiz

light rain said:


> I don't know why they don't close the circle. But I am glad that none of my family are law officers. Apparently the bad guys hate them and the good guys also... A thankless, dangerous job.


Funny you should say that. my last experience with law enforcement involved me, a middle aged mom/boy scout leader driving my own boys plus an extra home from our boyscout meeting. I came down a mountain after dropping off a boy that literally lives on top of the mountain. The road is very steep and winds down. you cant go much faster than 15 mph. At the base of the road, there is a stop sign, and I turned lright here after stopping, seeing a car's lights very far away on the left, traveling towards me. I make the turn and within seconds, the other car was directly on my tail (still had my own children in the car)..his headlights flooding my car with light and scaring me. he tailgated me like this until we got to the corner, about 2 miles away. I turned left and I was happy to see he turned right. I go home, still a bit shaken up by the tailgater...and my house phone rings. Turns out it was a PA state policeman that did this to me, accused me of not stopping (there was no way he could see if I did or didnt (I most certainly did)...he was just in a rage because he thought he could drive unimpeded as fast as he wanted to, and I made my turn knowing there was a safe amount of distance had he been traveling at a normal rate of speed.)

I dont know what he was trying to prove, he might live out this way, and the way he turned off the road means he must have traveled to the state police barracks that is only about a mile from here, and looked up my license plate number. I denied not stopping at the stop sign, and he phone demeanor became more aggressive, like he was in a steroid or testosterone fueled rant. I informed him I was a boy scout mother driving my kids home from scouts and he was crazy for even considering that i didnt stop. He got even angrier, and told me to expect a summons in the mail . I never got the summons, and I have to say, I have been pretty turned off by the PA stateys. Bullies, as far as I am concerned.


----------



## light rain

If you have had multiple bad experiences and none have them have been your fault I can see where your outlook comes from. It would be justified. I will say that telling a cop he is crazy is usually not gonna help the situation... :umno:


----------



## beaglebiz

light rain said:


> If you have had multiple bad experiences and none have them have been your fault I can see where your outlook comes from. It would be justified. I will say that telling a cop he is crazy is usually not gonna help the situation... :umno:


I was shocked, bewildered and not even sure I was speaking to the police. It seemed like a very bad prank. It kind of popped out of my mouth. 

Lucky for me, I have not been repeatedly harassed, but once was enough for me.

The only point I am trying to make is sometimes there is a reason why folks dont like them.


----------



## Jim-mi

Their stand up reputation precedes them........


----------



## Roadking

Yesterday, a "credible" witness reported sighting him near Swiftwater...8 or 9 miles south of the "perimeter...Yup, he's cornered in the woods of PA...maybe.
Sanofi (vaccine manufacture), mount airy casion (golf course, at least) and school grounds on lock down as of last I heard (8pm last night)...b-day party for kiddo, so haven't been on line...plus the dang bear is back and took out trash cans and flipped my chicken tractor. Again. About a 300 pounder.

Matt


----------



## BlueRose

How many chickens did you loose? Glad your kiddo was able to have his/her birthday party.


----------



## Roadking

None...I over built this one after a bear trashed the last one and got them all.

Got scrambled eggs 'tho...LOL!

Matt


----------



## Sawmill Jim

Roadking said:


> None...I over built this one after a bear trashed the last one and got them all.
> 
> Got scrambled eggs 'tho...LOL!
> 
> Matt


You should get you a good switch and go out there and give that bear a good thrashing :angel:

A good video of the thrashing would be good too


----------



## Roadking

Game camera now set up. If I get a good show, I'll pass it on.

Local LEO friend was camping this weekend, and when I picked our oldest up asked if I heard any news. Told him about the Swiftwater situation...he just smacked his head and, for the first time I can recall, belched out a stream of profanities...
Cornered my hind quarters...Here, maybe, but NO CLUE as to where he is.
BTW...getting tired of the bears that are rousted from their caves roaming my yard.
Local ( as it is) is off the case.

Matt


----------



## Roadking

Blood discovered at a Cresco residence tested negative for Frein...another goose chase.

Matt


----------



## unregistered353870

Roadking said:


> Blood discovered at a Cresco residence tested negative for Frein...another goose chase.
> 
> Matt


Did they say if they determined whether it's human blood?


----------



## Roadking

1 sample from an exterior porch was human blood, one sample (different house) from enclosed porch was not blood...human or animal, but didn't say what it was.

Matt


----------



## Jim-mi

On the tv news here; . . . . .a person (man?)---with a rifle---- and mud on his face . . was spotted . . . . . . .

sounds like 100% positive ID of Eric.......................WOW

Who would ever go into the woods with a long gun at this time of the year . . . ???
sarc......


----------



## Sawmill Jim

Roadking said:


> 1 sample from an exterior porch was human blood, one sample (different house) from enclosed porch was not blood...human or animal, but didn't say what it was.
> 
> Matt


Think they are hunting Bigfoot too :hobbyhors


----------



## Roadking

Oh boy...looks like the cops are getting jumpy...

http://www.poconorecord.com/article/20141020/NEWS/141029919

Demand the name and agency of this Rambo.

And it's not like the citizen's life wasn't enough of a struggle...now this?

Matt


----------



## kycountry

Roadking said:


> Oh boy...looks like the cops are getting jumpy...
> 
> http://www.poconorecord.com/article/20141020/NEWS/141029919
> 
> Demand the name and agency of this Rambo.
> 
> And it's not like the citizen's life wasn't enough of a struggle...now this?
> 
> Matt


And they wonder why people doesn't trust the law.... Until they start pointing out and charging these "Rambo" cops with criminal charges, people will have motives to take aggressive actions against them..


----------



## AngieM2

I don't usually go for the lawsuit path, but this guy seems to have cause with that unidentified Rambo-guy. I hope someone finds that fellow and consequences significant to be remembered happen to him.


----------



## Jim-mi

Hope and pray that Mr. Tully survives . . . . . . .

Yes he certainly could use some compensation for all this harassment .......


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE

have you put an electric fence charger and some wire around the chicken tractor , real shame you can't be eating bear when it tries for your chickens


----------



## Roadking

This afternoon I plan to. Had to go pick up a 8'x16' Florida room a buddy removed from a construction site...new attached greenhouse!

Matt


----------



## unregistered353870

Roadking said:


> Oh boy...looks like the cops are getting jumpy...
> 
> http://www.poconorecord.com/article/20141020/NEWS/141029919
> 
> Demand the name and agency of this Rambo.
> 
> And it's not like the citizen's life wasn't enough of a struggle...now this?
> 
> Matt


If I had to guess, that cop was ATF...some of the worst out there. I hope the victim is able to find out who the cop was and sue him and his agency.

With as many cops as they have there sitting around doing nothing, they could drive the guy to work and back every day until this is over. It would make their job easier and help him out, while really not costing anything.


----------



## Forerunner

Good thoughts, but not their cup of tea.


----------



## unregistered353870

I'm sure some of those cops are really nice guys who would give you the shirt off their backs, but when in a group of other cops they turn into jerks with the "us vs. them" mindset. And some of them are probably nice guys even around all those other jerks, but have to follow orders...and those who are nice tend not to get into positions of giving orders in that line of work. One would think making their job easier and safer would make it worth it even to the jerks, but the fact that it would also help some lowly citizen probably trumps the self-benefit.


----------



## Forerunner

Any good cop, the very moment he sees corruption or abuse of office in his peers, and does nothing, at that point and ever thereafter becomes a bad cop.

Doesn't leave much wiggle room.


----------



## unregistered353870

Oh, I agree 100% on that one...but I also believe there are a lot of bad cops that are still nice guys. Even some of the worst will run into a burning building with no fire gear (in polyester pants...worst possible thing to wear in a fire...it melts and sticks to the skin and burns horribly) to save a stranger. I've seen that happen with my own eyes. It really starts to mess with your mind when you witness someone you know to be evil acting in such a selfless way...of course you could argue that there might be selfish motivations, but the risk was very real nonetheless.


----------



## Roadking

From what I'm hearing, a fund has raised about $6000 for the guy they roughed up, and two dealerships are offering to get him a car...not sure if a rental or to own, but this small town really stepped up. Nice to see now a days.

Matt


----------



## Sawmill Jim

Roadking said:


> From what I'm hearing, a fund has raised about $6000 for the guy they roughed up, and two dealerships are offering to get him a car...not sure if a rental or to own, but this small town really stepped up. Nice to see now a days.
> 
> Matt


Hope the car he gets don't look like one the alleged shooter may of ever drove or it could look like Swiss cheese if that bunch could hit it :drum:


----------



## newfieannie

last I saw it a few hours ago it was close to 11000. wouldn't be surprised it would go sky high. ~Georgia.


----------



## Roadking

I heard there was a website tracking it, but don't know the addy. Getting updates from another board I frequent.
Thanks for the heads up.

Matt


----------



## Roadking

Well, now they are investigating a Porsche that was stolen and recovered in NY, searching down by rte 611 & I-80, and now west of 380...Tobyhanna for those that are familiar with the area.
I'm convinced they have no clue where he is, but are in so deep, they have to keep it up for show, and hope to get lucky.
Yup, their 5 mile secured perimeter worked well. Had him cornered in a circle. Very little activity in the original search area.

Matt


----------



## Sawmill Jim

Roadking said:


> Well, now they are investigating a Porsche that was stolen and recovered in NY, searching down by rte 611 & I-80, and now west of 380...Tobyhanna for those that are familiar with the area.
> I'm convinced they have no clue where he is, but are in so deep, they have to keep it up for show, and hope to get lucky.
> Yup, their 5 mile secured perimeter worked well. Had him cornered in a circle. Very little activity in the original search area.
> 
> Matt


Looks like time is drawing nigh for closing up your doughnut shop :runforhills:


----------



## BlueRose

Matt how are you and your family doing this weekend? Have the (officers) decided that they are in the wrong place yet?


----------



## unregistered353870

They say he didn't steal the Porsche, but don't say how they ruled him out.


----------



## Sawmill Jim

jtbrandt said:


> They say he didn't steal the Porsche, but don't say how they ruled him out.


Because he wasn't setting in it cleaning his 308 :angel:


----------



## Roadking

Same old same old BlueRose...we just go on with life, no change to our routine...heck, buddy's kid took a doe yesterday morning just outside the "no hunting" area.
And, no, they haven't admitted to not having a clue yet.

Matt


----------



## scooter

News today is they found more blood by a chicken coop and they are testing it, it's probably blood from another animal.

MANHUNT IN PA.
Search for accused cop killer turns up more blood


----------



## Roadking

Well, I was outside all day today...if he's still around, he's got to be suffering from the elements.
No updates on the new blood yet.

Matt


----------



## Ceilismom

Roadking said:


> Well, I was outside all day today...if he's still around, he's got to be suffering from the elements.
> No updates on the new blood yet.
> 
> Matt


I don't suppose you were outside butchering chickens next to your coop by any chance?


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## Roadking

Nope, a cub scout popcorn fund raiser. Chickens still laying...adding a light source tomorrow...

Matt


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## kycountry

Roadking said:


> Nope, a cub scout popcorn fund raiser. Chickens still laying...adding a light source tomorrow...
> 
> Matt


should have done a donuts stand with all the po po's running around..


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## Roadking

Now testing a weather balloon type surveilance device. Good week to try it...NOT...windy as all get out this week.
Keystone Cops, indeed.
http://wnep.com/2014/10/26/new-tool-to-help-police-in-manhunt/
Some of the comments are funny. Folks are getting fed up.

Matt


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## Jim-mi

With heat sensors / motion detectors that ballon should keep the boots busy chasing fox, feral cats, dogs. . . . . 
Can't close the doughnut shop yet . . . .the boots gotta be loving those fat pay checks.

That link also had a piece about Mr.J Tully being constantly stopped . . . . Any words about the "fund" that was being collected for him. . .?? . . .how come he is not in that "car" yet . .??


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## Roadking

That story is no longer covered. I've been trying to find out some more, but nothing forthcoming.
Wonder how long until someone takes a shot at it and they blame it on Frein?

Matt


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## Jim-mi

I've got a mountain bike that I would donate to Mr. Tully........
Why hasn't somebody in the area stepped up to the plate on this . . ???
Perhaps Mr. Tully has other (unreported) problems . .but you got to give the guy a bunch of credit for walking the distance for a job...........


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## Roadking

Last I heard, people have been giving him a lift, the fund was at around $13000, and haven't heard more about the car.

Matt


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## Roadking

Guess they plan on being there a while...porta potty has been delivered to the balloon site...:smack
Oh, and the balloon on load from Ohio...costs $180,000. What a waste. Techs from Ohio are assisting, and PSP is paying for the helium.

http://wnep.com/2014/10/27/balloon-latest-spectacle-in-search-for-frein/

This is getting embarrassing.
And to note: if I was the victim, would such expense be put out to find my killer? I think not.

Matt


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## Jim-mi

You can bet the ranch on that fact........


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## unregistered353870

Roadking said:


> This is getting embarrassing.
> *And to note: if I was the victim, would such expense be put out to find my killer? I think not.*
> 
> Matt


Excellent point.

And that balloon is ridiculous...I could sell them a better one for half the price and still be ripping them off by a WIDE margin.


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## AngieM2

A kids RC helicopter with camera. Not as costly.


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## Sawmill Jim

jtbrandt said:


> Excellent point.
> 
> And that balloon is ridiculous...I could sell them a better one for half the price and still be ripping them off by a WIDE margin.


By the time every poleytishen get their cut everything get high priced


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## Jim-mi

Money is no object..............

Bend over Joe Public........................


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

this came up in another discussion , and the consensus was send in a dog 

I figured why not send in 10 with tracking collars when they stop in the same place on the gps screen go find out if he is in a tree 

at least it should get things moving.


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## Sawmill Jim

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> this came up in another discussion , and the consensus was send in a dog
> 
> I figured why not send in 10 with tracking collars when they stop in the same place on the gps screen go find out if he is in a tree
> 
> at least it should get things moving.


I bet the whole area is so contaminated those dogs couldn't even track Roadkings bear that hangs out on his back porch :runforhills:


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## Roadking

Day 47. At 3 am, friend posted on another forum, shots fired. She is in Canadensis. LEO swarmed the area. Nothing came of it.
Raining and a high of 57 today...can't work on my attached greenhouse today. Calling for snow on Saturday...temps dropping through out the week.
The guy is either dead or long gone.
Oh, and the bear has apparently wandered to greener pastures...nothing disturbed, and nothing on the game cameras. Made an omlet last night instead of scrambled...LOL!

Matt


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## Forerunner

Maybe they don't use dogs because the overtime pay and conditioning of the public is the priority, perhaps not in that order......


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## Roadking

The claim has been made that they don't want to jeopardize the dogs life, considering that the suspect has killed before...REALLY?
I've seen where they send dogs into much more hostile situations with greater risk.
Think forerunner tags it well. Claiming it is ONLY $1.1 MILLION per week... Sheesh!

Guess it's a good thing I didn't put this in "Current Events"...

Matt


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## kycountry

Why would they want to use dogs?? Seems the LEO's are doing a dang good job of chasing their own tails without them.. Also, What happened to the drones the U.S. has circling above?? 

I do not see this guy wanting to stay in that area unless he's on a couch somewhere watching the news.. If I had the time he had to plan out all this, I'd be on a beach somewhere drinking margaritas watching the sunset... Now that's survival at it's best! :happy2:


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## scooter

Have they ever disclosed the results of the latest blood found?


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## Roadking

No word on the blood scooter.

Matt


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## Jim-mi

With all those J boots peeing in the woods the dogs would be useless anyway . . .lol


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## Roadking

You have got to be kidding me???!!!
http://wnep.com/2014/10/29/search-balloon-a-bust/
The balloon experiment has folded already. Surprised it wasn't shot down.
I'm feeling embarrassed FOR them.

Matt

BTW: How can DCNR do deer population studies using thermal imaging, yet our LEOs can't locate 1 guy? Is it maybe because he's not there?
Pathetic.


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## Jim-mi

LOL . . on the "talk back 16" clip . . . . . a woman said something about a porta poti and------a Duncan Doughnuts out there-----------

sounds about right . . .fatten up the J boots while they are "working" so hard...........

Ka-ching . . Ka-ching


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

come on I know they are not trained tracking dogs but every pound in America is full of put bulls and **** hounds , put tracking collars on 200 of them and lets see what it does

it has to be more interesting than the balloon


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## cast iron

> The balloon is no longer helping with the search according to a PSP spokesman. They say terrain too rugged...


Amateurs. Clearly they need to use a 4-wheel drive balloon if the terrain is too rugged.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Roadking said:


> BTW: How can DCNR do deer population studies using thermal imaging, yet our LEOs can't locate 1 guy? Is it maybe because he's not there?
> Pathetic.



because the DNR has no problem counting bear , deer , large ***** , coyotes, compost piles and any other warm spot as a deer even if they wait till the dead of winter and run the image then fly over with a helicopter and chase some deer around to determine they were only 75% right they just take 25% off for adjusted calculations and call it good 

probably much harder when you have to look at those warm spots and say yup that ones a guy not a bear.

that and of course why would you stick around for this if you had any option of leaving


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## Roadking

Wayne02 said:


> Amateurs. Clearly they need to use a 4-wheel drive balloon if the terrain is too rugged.


I need to lean my screen and keyboard after that one! :rotfl:

Matt


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## Sawmill Jim

Roadking said:


> No word on the blood scooter.
> 
> Matt


Say your bear is missing :drum:


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## unregistered353870

ABC News reporting he's been captured alive. I wonder if Halloween is un-cancelled....


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## scooter

Pa. Police: Man Wanted in Trooper Ambush is Captured


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## TRellis

Hmmmm!!!

Two weeks left in archery season, no one has been really moving in some of my favorite hunting spots this season...

Roadtrip!!!

I wonder if they will quickly lift the ban in Porter and Price Townships???

TRellis


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## unregistered353870

CNN saying he was in an airport hangar in Tannersville...on the map that looks to be about 10 miles south of Canadensis where they had been looking for him.


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## newfieannie

I'm surprised he was taken alive. figured he'd go out shooting or kill himself. ~Georgia


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## unregistered353870

newfieannie said:


> I'm surprised he was taken alive. figured he'd go out shooting or kill himself. ~Georgia


Me too...but I'm glad it ended this way. It should shut down one set of conspiracy theories. Probably will open another box of them, though. At least with him alive we can eventually hear his side of the story.


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## TRellis

jtbrandt said:


> CNN saying he was in an airport hangar in Tannersville...on the map that looks to be about 10 miles south of Canadensis where they had been looking for him.


I just checked CNN and they are saying that it was Pocono Mountains Municipal Airport where he was caught. That is in Mt. Pocono, just a stone throw from his old high school where he was supposedly seen about a week or so ago. Just a few miles from his home.

TRellis


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## BlueRose

This just came over the news feed on my computer. I wonder what his story is and if we hear it.


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## TRellis

jtbrandt said:


> It should shut down one set of conspiracy theories.


How much would you like to bet on that one??? The old conspiracy theories will just morph into something that parallels the new reality.




jtbrandt said:


> Probably will open another box of them, though.


Probably?!?!?! You act as if you have doubts about that.




jtbrandt said:


> At least with him alive we can eventually hear his side of the story.


Well, we can only hope for as much, but....

I think he will be assassinated, ala Jack Ruby, while being moved from one jail cell to another!!! At least that is the conspiracy theory that I am shamelessly starting. 

Packing my hunting gear, waiting for the "all clear".

TRellis


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## Roadking

Details still coming in...some say Buck Hill, some Tannersville, some Mt. Pocono...either way, glad he was captured and better yet alive.
I really thought he was either long gone, or long dead.
This should bring sanity back to some of the locals.

Matt


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## Jim-mi

Hope and pray that he lives to have a reasonable day in a court of his peers......
Course we know everything is stacked against him from the git go........


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## Roadking

Placed in the slain trooper's hand cuffs for the ride back to the scene of the crime, Blooming Grove, for the booking.
Didn't see it ending this way.

Matt


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## unregistered353870

Jim-mi said:


> Hope and pray that he lives to have a reasonable day in a court of his peers......
> Course we know everything is stacked against him from the git go........


I fully expect him to live to face trial...if they wanted to kill him they had a perfect chance a couple hours ago...of course they're saying it was U.S. Marshals, not state/local police. Anyway, I think he'll live. Getting a fair trial might be another story. Where can they find a jury that doesn't have a strong bias against him at this point? This is where I switch over to reasonable doubt. I hope justice is done, whatever that may be.


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## Becka03

I am just hoping they reinstate Halloween trick or treat for the area- 
Sorry that is my fav holiday- as a parent- it is a staple for me!


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## unregistered353870

Sounds like they caught him away from his guns, which may be the only reason it ended without shots fired. I wonder if that was luck or if they surrounded the hangar and waited patiently for him to leave it.


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## unregistered65598

By putting him in the dead troopers handcuffs, he's already been tried.


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## Jim-mi

And the point was made "brought back in the trooper's squad car"

Yup . . . tried and convicted 

Just ---where--- could they go for an unbiased jury . . . . . .?????????????


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## Roadking

Doesn't look like a jury will be needed...

Looks like he confessed, but did not enter a plea.

http://6abc.com/news/source-eric-frein-confessed-to-killing-pa-trooper/373904/

Matt


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## scooter

Looking at the pictures, I find it surprising that his hair isn't longer and his sideburns look well trimmed, not like someone living in the bush that long.


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## Jim-mi

And no lacky "attorney" was at his side.................


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## 7thswan

I heard it cost 10 million to get this guy.


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## light rain

That's a lot of money but at least there may be justice for the 2 LEO and their families. If nobody likes this, oh well... You all will be cursing the police right up to the time they pull you out of your burning vehicles...


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## kycountry

light rain said:


> That's a lot of money but at least there may be justice for the 2 LEO and their families. If nobody likes this, oh well... You all will be cursing the police right up to the time they pull you out of your burning vehicles...


Around here, it seems they want to stand back and pee on you.. even if your car isn't on fire.. :bdh:


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## Roadking

I'm not cursing the police themselves; rather the higher ups who "ran" the response. Handled rather ineptly if you ask me. 48 days and 10+ million dollars for 1 man? 

Matt


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## unregistered353870

One thing I've noticed is that every time the state police guy is asked about the blood on Frein's nose and forehead in the arrest pictures, he says it happened before they caught him and not during the capture. Apparently the U.S. Marshal who actually arrested him didn't get the memo on that, since he pretty much admits he inflicted those injuries on Frein.

From the NY Times :


> Asked by reporters about a bruise above Mr. Freinâs left eye and a bloody abrasion on his nose, Colonel Bivens said the injuries occurred âat some point during his flight,â not during his capture.
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/01/us/eric-frein-suspect-in-killing-of-pennsylvania-state-trooper-appears-in-court.html


From Roadking's link:


> Photos showed him to have a cut on his nose and bruises on his face.
> 
> Malkowski says that happened as he secured Frein on an asphalt runway.
> 
> "Sometimes when we take people in to custody, we have to take drastic measures, especially when he killed a fellow officer. We weren't messing around, we meant business," said Malkowski.


Also, the confession seems to have gone away. The original story has been changed from that being the main story to just one line in the story. And all the other stories about the confession just point back to that one. I wonder if it's true.


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## Roadking

Buddy of mine is a higher up local LEO and told me today that the injuries were there prior to the apprehension, but became a bit bigger because of the take down they used. He wasn't there, but friends of his were, and they seem to be trustworthy.
Just the grape vine talk here.

Matt


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## Jim-mi

Unfortunately I don't think 'we' will ever hear the truth . . . .

"officers lined the walls of the court room" . . . . . . for One restrained man . . . .

The boots got their patsy. . . .

Let the Kangaroo court begin.............


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## unregistered353870

It's one thing to have an open mind, but quite another to declare the suspect a patsy without seeing any of the evidence. That is almost as bad as the people who assume he's guilty.

I suspect some people won't accept that he's guilty even if he testifies in open court that he is and you see it with your own eyes and hear it with your own ears. And some will accept that he did it but will say it was justified whether any good reason is ever given or not.


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## Forerunner

The jaded state that many Americans have come to realize does not manifest itself in uniform fashion.


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## unregistered353870

They are saying Frein had a laptop with him and was reading about the manhunt online while he was hiding.


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## Forerunner

Must be true.


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## beaglebiz

It has been stated on the news there was power in the airplane hangar and found his laptop and other items. I wonder if we will ever have the real story


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## unregistered353870

Forerunner said:


> Must be true.


Maybe, maybe not...no reason to either accept it or question it...I don't see how it has much if any bearing on the case anyway...just thought it was interesting.


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## Roadking

Yup, claiming laptop and 2 thumb drives. Had internet access via unsecured Wi-Fi.
That would have helped him avoid capture.
I'd just like to know the facts of what really happened.

Matt


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## TRellis

So ......

Matt,

Now that Frein has been taken into custody and if his lawyers cannot get a change of venue, what do you think your chances are of being called for jury duty? And do you think of yourself as being a member of a tainted jury pool?

The two times that I moved out of Pike county, just days before leaving I received jury notifications. They could never get the timing right.

TRellis


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## Jim-mi

For that matter will he ever get a court appointed attorney with smarts enough to tie his own shoe laces..??


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## Roadking

I seriously doubt I'd be a viable candidate for the trial...but considering how this has played out, anything is possible.
Been called for jury duty 2 times in Bucks County, and one federal...for some reason, I didn't get picked...wonder why...

Matt


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## beaglebiz

I have a sneaking suspicion this will not be brought to trial due to suicide, murder or an insanity plea. If it does make it, I would bet this is probably going to be a death penalty case. I would not/could not sit on a death case.


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## light rain

If I really was convinced a man or woman took someone's life, intentionally, I could. I would maybe think about it for the rest of my life, but isn't this what the military and LEO deal with everyday? Put a murderer in jail for so many years at hundreds of thousands of dollars while their victims are gone, ridiculous.


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## unregistered353870

The look-alike got his car finally...a 2007 Subaru Outback.


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## Sawmill Jim

light rain said:


> If I really was convinced a man or woman took someone's life, intentionally, I could. I would maybe think about it for the rest of my life, but isn't this what the military and LEO deal with everyday? Put a murderer in jail for so many years at hundreds of thousands of dollars while their victims are gone, ridiculous.


Well i'v heard it said there are just some folks that needed killing :facepalm:


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## Roadking

Yup, they site raised 27,000 dollars. The dealership didn't give him any breaks tho...Kelley Blue Book and NADA guides list it as $9589 (averaged between the two). The leftover to be for maintenance, according to Tully.
http://wnep.com/2014/11/12/frein-look-alike-gets-car-from-community-donations/
"The community heard of Tully&#8217;s troubles and responded in a big way, donating more than $24,000 dollars through the online site Go Fund Me."
...
"He chose a practical 2007 used Subaru Outback with four-wheel drive and about 102,000 miles, costing a grand total of just under $10,000."

Some of the comments make me sick...jealousy over someone getting a boost up and all.

Matt


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## Roadking

Now 2 charges of terrorism...think they are over playing their hand.

http://wnep.com/2014/11/13/frein-charged-with-terrorism/

Not many details.

Matt


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## TRellis

Roadking said:


> The dealership didn't give him any breaks tho...Kelley Blue Book and NADA guides list it as $9589 (averaged between the two).
> 
> Matt



Did you really expect Halterman's to do something for someone else?

In '05 I decided that it was finally time to retire my '96 VW Jetta. Mileage was a hair over 425,000 and it still had the original clutch. I was looking at purchasing a new Jetta and went to Halterman's VW. The salesman commented on how "cherry" my Jetta looked and suggested that I should make a commercial of some type publicly proclaiming the benefits of owning a VW.

I said, "Sure!!! How much are you going to pay me for doing this?"

He responded by saying that I should pay for the commercial. 

Sorry buddy. I bought a Honda across the street.

TRellis


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## unregistered353870

The first official word I've seen of Frein's supposed confession:


> 28. After an extensive search and manhunt the DEFENDANT was taken into custody on 10/30/14 by members of the United States Marshalls Service at the Birchwood Pocono Airpark, in Pocono Twp., Monroe County, PA. After being taken into custody the DEFENDANT was transported to the PSP Blooming Grove Station and he was interviewed by affiants CLARK and MULVEY on 10/30/14 into 10/31/14. Prior to the interview affiant CLARK read the DEFENDANT his Miranda Rights and the DEFENDANT acknowledged them and agreed to cooperate with CLARK and MULVEY. During the interview the DEFENDANT related the following: He wanted to make a change (in government) and that voting was insufficient to do so, because there was no one worth voting for. He also acknowledged that he shot Troopers because he wanted to make a change (in government) and that the murder of the Trooper was an assassination. The DEFENDANT further acknowledged taking action (shooting the Troopers) to wake people up, because it was all he could do.


I'm guessing they have this interview on video, and from the way he cooperated with them he probably won't be denying it anyway. He'll probably still go to trial.

From reading the criminal complaint, it sounds like his intent to influence the policy and conduct of government are what's behind the terrorism charges. I don't understand how he thought that was going to work, but it should be interesting to hear his side of it eventually. I do expect that we will, since it seems to be his goal to wake people up.


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## Roadking

Total cost...just over $11,000,000.

http://wnep.com/2014/11/14/cost-of-frein-manhunt-11million/

Matt


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## light rain

Roadking, that is an awful lot of taxpayer money! What could have been done differently? How can you apprehend a murderer that has no qualms about killing an innocent person and that is very well schooled in living off the land? How can this be handled more efficiently and economically???


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## BlueRose

That is a lot of money that will never be used for other things. Was it worth it? What would of happened if they had just waited him out. He would have came out of the woods sooner or later.


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## unregistered353870

I don't think waiting for him to come out on his own would be a good idea (at least not at first) but I would think a lot fewer personnel could have found him in the same amount of time or less. Kind of a "work smart, not hard" approach. A quarter million would be the upper limit of what it should have cost.


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## light rain

BlueRose, I think you need to ask the widow of the LEO killed "was it worth it"?. If it was your husband, son or brother or child, would it be worth it?


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## Roadking

light rain said:


> Roadking, that is an awful lot of taxpayer money! What could have been done differently? How can you apprehend a murderer that has no qualms about killing an innocent person and that is very well schooled in living off the land? How can this be handled more efficiently and economically???


I said from the beginning...turn the dogs loose. A pack of trained tracking dogs could have cornered him and ended this quickly. And before anyone goes off on "but the dog could have gotten hurt", dogs are sent into much more dangerous situations on a regular basis.

Matt

PS; I'm not buying the number. They were claiming it was costing over a million dollars a day...over 40 days, but now it's only $11,000,000... must be the new math.


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## light rain

You might be right, Roadking. If that (trained tracking dogs) would have solved the manhunt quicker and more efficiently there should be discussion on why that didn't happen. Taxpayers have a right to give input when it is their money funding the whole shebang. There will be a similar situation somewhere in our country at sometime. Hopefully, besides the innocent resident getting a car he so badly needed I hope that some good comes from this.


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## unregistered353870

> They were claiming it was costing over a million dollars a day


I kept seeing claims of over a million a week, which would make 11 million plausible. I can't imagine how they could possibly spend a million a day, but it is government, so who knows....


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## BlueRose

light rain.. I just went back and reread what I wrote and how I worded it :ashamed:. I did not mean it that way....:ashamed::facepalm:


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