# Puppy died



## dranger1108 (Aug 7, 2010)

I sold a couple of puppies to a neighbor down the street 8 days ago, and just found out that one of the puppies died. They said that he had worms and that is what killed him. I had wormed the mama and didn't notice any worms or bloated belly in the puppies when I had sold them. I'm going to talk to them tomorrow, and see what is going on. There was a third puppy that I sold to another person and will call her to and see how her puppy is doing and warn her to worm her puppy? Anything that could kill a small breed puppy in such a short time? He was the biggest one out of the litter and seemed to being good.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

How old are the puppies? What breed are they? There are a lot of things that could kill a small breed puppy in a few days, yes, so get more information. I'm sure you are very upset, its a bummer.


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## dranger1108 (Aug 7, 2010)

they were 7 weeks old and eating canned food, and had their first set of shots.


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## Mattemma (Jan 1, 2013)

Are pups supposed to nurse till 8 weeks? I know in rabbits being with mom is such a big deal.Not only immunity through milk,but protection via gut.Bacteria goes nuts in the gut and it can kill.Food change and stress can add to that.

Vaccines can kill.We have compensation programs(NVICP) set up to cover injury/death,so I think vacine issues is a possibility in all groups.

Is the neighbor asking for a refund? Regardless, I would ask for the pup so a vet can do a autopsy(whatever it is called for animals) to look for worms/cause of death.

I think it is a good idea to worm all pups.That wormer can kill too though! Again, I would want the pup's body back.It will help answer some questions.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Was the puppy wormed before it went to it's new home? Most puppies need worming at least once, or even twice before 8 weeks. I wormed mine at about 4 weeks old and even though they looked very healthy they had worms.


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## Honorine (Feb 27, 2006)

If you only wormed the mother once thats not good enough. If you don't have a good worming protocal in place with your dogs puppies should be wormed every two weeks, starting at two weeks old, and you worm their mother at the same time. Mother should also be wormed prior to breeding and during pregnancy. So an eight week old puppy should have been wormed 4 times, thats enough to break the worms life cycle and keep the puppy from having a heavy wormload. Some may disagree with that but if the worm status of your adult dogs is unknown its the one way to make certain the puppies are as worm clear as they can be. Small breed puppy? Are you talking Chihuahua or Yorkie? Seven weeks is too young for them to go to a new home. Smaller breeds need more time, at least 8 to 10, the really little ones often 12 weeks and up before going to their new home, and then theres hypoglycemia. I'd get the puppy back, get a necropsy done. If it was wormload, and you just sold the puppy to them a few days ago and you only wormed the mother well then its on you. If your going to breed and sell dogs you need to follow a worm and disease management program, and stand behind your pups if something goes wrong. Could a small breed puppy that was not wormed have died from wormload? Absolutely. I also would call others and tell them to take the pups to the VET for worming, because if they do just worm the pups themselves and they have a heavy wormload it could cause an intestinal impaction. That can kill a puppy too.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Did they yake this puppy yo a vet or is that just what they are speculating killed it? I doubt worms killed the puppy. My guess would be parvo or another virus did and the vaccine was probably not effective since only one was done and at 7 weeks.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

dranger1108 said:


> I sold a couple of puppies to a neighbor down the street 8 days ago, and just found out that one of the puppies died.


Did you keep one of the litter? And if so, is it ok?
I am a firm believer that most "puppy problems" come with the lack of good care they get after leaving home not before. If you worm the puppy, care for the puppy well at your home, then the death is the neighbor's fault. And, honestly, if they had him 8 days, he should have been wormed there. I worm any animal that comes into my home the same day it arrives, plus it gets a parvo vaccine. After 8 days that puppy should have been vet checked and updated on worming and vaccines.
I would assume that coccidia killed it or else just lack of care.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I also wanted to mention that you worm puppies long before 7wks. I worm at 2wk with Pyrantal Pamoate, 4wks with PPM, 6 wk PPM, and then again before they go out with ivermectin once.


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

Honorine said:


> If you only wormed the mother once thats not good enough. If you don't have a good worming protocal in place with your dogs puppies should be wormed every two weeks, starting at two weeks old, and you worm their mother at the same time. Mother should also be wormed prior to breeding and during pregnancy. So an eight week old puppy should have been wormed 4 times, thats enough to break the worms life cycle and keep the puppy from having a heavy wormload. Some may disagree with that but if the worm status of your adult dogs is unknown its the one way to make certain the puppies are as worm clear as they can be. Small breed puppy? Are you talking Chihuahua or Yorkie? Seven weeks is too young for them to go to a new home. Smaller breeds need more time, at least 8 to 10, the really little ones often 12 weeks and up before going to their new home, and then theres hypoglycemia. I'd get the puppy back, get a necropsy done. If it was wormload, and you just sold the puppy to them a few days ago and you only wormed the mother well then its on you. If your going to breed and sell dogs you need to follow a worm and disease management program, and stand behind your pups if something goes wrong. Could a small breed puppy that was not wormed have died from wormload? Absolutely. I also would call others and tell them to take the pups to the VET for worming, because if they do just worm the pups themselves and they have a heavy wormload it could cause an intestinal impaction. That can kill a puppy too.



This. I start worming at 4 weeks and worm weekly until they leave for new homes. 

If it was parvo, you would know it because they die a bloody, shrunken mess. I know because it went thru my place 2 years back.

I would bet a dollar to a donut it was worms. They will look healthy until nearly too late. I had it happen to me with a Black Mouth Cur pup given me. Exactly as you describe and the worm infestation was so bad we couldnt save her. I had wormed her once when she came home, but it was too little too late


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

Am I the only person who has never had worms in my dogs? I have never wormed any dog or puppy I own, never wormed a litter, nothing. I have never had a dog test positive for worms, and I have litters tested at their 8 week exam.

Do those of you who worm all the time know that you do indeed have worms, or do you do it as a precaution? It just boggles my mind hearing about so many worms, since for some reason I have never had a single worm in so many years. Just trying to figure this out.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Did the new owners take their dogs to the vet? I've never bred dogs so don't have any knowledgeable advice to give about that but I would suggest offering to pay for vet visit and worming for their remaining puppy. I would also suggest offering them either their money back on the dead dog or first pick of the next litter. A good name is vitally important when breeding any animal. Oh, as part of any future sales contract, I would require buyers to take pups to the vet within 24 to 48 hours. 

I am so sorry your puppy died. I agree that you should warn the other puppy owner and maybe offer to pay for vet worming as worming needs to be done carefully. If a very young puppy is wormed too harshly it can die. I would worm any of your remaining pups. I also agree that pups should stay with their mama for at least eight to ten weeks. They learn important social lessons (like biting another being isn't a good idea) during those first few weeks. We have had several litters of barn kittens. Our last litter of two disappeared at about six weeks. Their mama was terribly and painfully engorged. Those kittens had started eating some dry food but were not fully able to eat a dry diet. I think babies should be capable of eating dry food when they leave.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Haven said:


> Am I the only person who has never had worms in my dogs? I have never wormed any dog or puppy I own, never wormed a litter, nothing. I have never had a dog test positive for worms, and I have litters tested at their 8 week exam.
> 
> Do those of you who worm all the time know that you do indeed have worms, or do you do it as a precaution? It just boggles my mind hearing about so many worms, since for some reason I have never had a single worm in so many years. Just trying to figure this out.


My dogs pick up all sorts of gross stuff at dog shows. I usually take one dog (whoever has been at the most shows lately) to the vet and get a fecal run - if one has worms, I assume that they were nice and shared with everyone else, so I'll deworm everyone. I've also seen tapeworm eggs in their stool during show season before, so that has to be addressed.

If you give your dogs monthly Rx heartworm meds, most of them also include a dewormer. I use OTC ivermectin so my dogs don't get that added bonus.... just means I have to do a little more observation and pay for a fecal here and there.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

I have NEVER had a puppy that didn't come with little intestinal parasites; it is almost par for the course for some reason. Haven, you are very lucky!


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## lexa (Mar 30, 2012)

Your puppies should have been wormed couple times while at your care. If mother had worms at any time there is a high chance that they are in the environment and pups will pick them up. She could also have picked them up herself after being dewormed and introduced them to pups through milk. Unfortunately, it happens often that sellers do not follow the worming protocol and don't know that puppies have worms when they sell them. 
So, yes please call the new owners of other puppies that you sold and tell them about worms.


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## SilverFlame819 (Aug 24, 2010)

I don't think I've ever dewormed a puppy before, and I've never had a worm issue with any of my dogs.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Joshie said:


> A good name is vitally important when breeding any animal..



I think that boat has sailed. Letting puppies go at seven weeks, not knowing if they have worms, no vet exam. Even if they were an oops litter, just some basic precautions and care.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

Must be luck I guess. I suppose living in the north with hard winters helps.

Still wondering if you guys all have worms confirmed with fecal floats, or just worm all the time as a precaution.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I had a friend that lived near Denver, she didn't have worm problems (which she checked) due to the extreme climate. I know that I showed dogs for years and have done fecals to confirm it, when they travel like that to areas where other dogs are, they just get internal parasites. I didn't do so many vaccines, but was aggressive with the worming protocols to do my best to send them off parasite free. Knowing we have a problem with whip worm, I included Panacur in my protocol - the eggs are very persistent - I will always expect to have whip worms in my dogs. 

I also find that many people that claim no worm problems do NOT do regular fecals, many parasite loads are well tolerated by the dogs and not obvious in the condition of the dog. However, when the ***** is bred, any roundworms that have encysted in her muscle tissue will become active and either go directly into the pups, or through her milk. If the puppies are aggressively wormed they won't have the encysted parasites and their puppies will be less problematic. This must be done when they are nursing, the life cycle must be broken at that time to avoid passing them forward. 

As for the OP and her problem. I agree that 7 weeks is awfully young for a small breed puppy. I used to keep my Silky Terriers until they were about 10 weeks unless the buyer was very knowledgeable. Even then I found they did better overall and were more able to handle stress, etc. When I sold my puppies, I always did a contract spelling out the buyer's responsibilities and mine too, so they knew what to expect. I would warrant a puppy for anything for the first week, IF they took it to the vet within 48 hours for a check up, after that for any genetic health problem that interfered with it's ability to perform the function they purchased it for. If it was to be a pet and had a crippling genetic problem, I would take it back and refund most of their money or replace it (spelled out in detail). The buyer was responsible for basic health care, worming, quality feed, etc. I was NOT responsible for problems caused by the care of the puppy after I sold it - for instance I was contacted by a buyer of an English Setter puppy who was lame in the shoulders, saying it was OCD by their vet. However it had not been x-rayed, so I took the pup and got him x-rayed. Turns out the tips of his shoulder joints were BROKEN, probably by overuse as they'd taken him running against my specific recommendations (not to take them running until they are at least a year old). Although I paid for the x-ray, they agreed to take him back and treat him. Turned out ok, they had him for many years.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

At the vet clinic where I work we deworm all dogs/cats/puppies/kittens when they get their shots without doing a fecal.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Haven said:


> Still wondering if you guys all have worms confirmed with fecal floats, or just worm all the time as a precaution.


You just worm. When you take the puppies to the vet at 2days, they give you wormer for so many wormings until weaning. Then when you take them in at 6 and 8wks for shots they worm again with either PPM or sometimes heartguard or interceptor, etc depending on their size.
And every month you give heartworm prevention which is wormer. It's normal preventative care for your dog.


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

I recently rescued a stray dog that had puppies. I dewormed the mother the day the puppies were born and again 10 days later. I kinda forgot I was supposed to deworm the puppies at 2 weeks (my first litter ever!)so they got dewormed at 3 weeks. I know the momma likes to clean up after the puppies and I didnt want her eating the worms, so I dewormed them all and kept them in the bathtub over night. The next morning the bottom of my tub was literally covered in worms.. Like hundreds! I couldnt believe it. I really couldnt. The puppies were fat, happy, healthy, nice coats, good weight. I cant even imagine how bad the worms have to be before you can actually tell they have worms. I dewormed them every 10 days from then on until they were adopted out at 8 weeks. I asked a vet tech friend about it and she said that worms are passed onto puppies before they are born. A puppy is born with worms when the mother has worms! I had no idea. She said you can do an autopsy on a newborn puppy and find its belly full of worms. yuck! 


And for those saying climate has something to do with it..no. It doesnt. I have never rescued a dog that didnt poop out piles of worms after deworming (round worms and tape worms) and I live in canada where the temp regularly gets to -40 in the winter. 

For the record I have never seen worms come out of a dog until the dog was dewormed. All dogs appear to be fine...deworm them just incase and they will have a few days of poops that are more worms than poop. Please dont ever assume your dog doesnt have worms just because you have never seen worms. And a heavy worm load will 100% kill a puppy. Like right now.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

mekasmom said:


> You just worm. When you take the puppies to the vet at 2days, they give you wormer for so many wormings until weaning. Then when you take them in at 6 and 8wks for shots they worm again with either PPM or sometimes heartguard or interceptor, etc depending on their size.
> And every month you give heartworm prevention which is wormer. It's normal preventative care for your dog.


Mine dont go to the vet till their 8 week exam. I do dew claws myself. I dont vaccinate before 8 weeks either.

As for the OP. A puppy that young could of gone hypoglycemic if it was not being fed frequently enough once it left the dam.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

I suspect it has more to do where the pup is living at. Desert/dry climates have a less tendency to be full of worms compared to say....the south...East Texas is full of all types of worms and viruses that won't go away due to the moist climate.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I'm sorry I wasn't so clear about my friend in Denver - she was very careful to worm her pups and be sure her breeding stock was free of the encysted worms that travel into the puppies. She is a nurse and checks things very carefully. It wasn't just climate, that just helped a lot, being both dry, very high altitude and cold in the winter.


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## dbarjacres (Feb 2, 2004)

BlueMoonLuck, why do you say ivermectin only kills HW? Many people use that regularly to deworm their dogs. Should get most worms but tapes and whips.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

dbarjacres said:


> BlueMoonLuck, why do you say ivermectin only kills HW? Many people use that regularly to deworm their dogs. Should get most worms but tapes and whips.


No, she said it does *not* get heartworm so has to treat for that separately.


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## dbarjacres (Feb 2, 2004)

SFM, I re-read it, and I'm still taking it she's saying she uses ivermectin, thus not using a heartworm product, most of which have dewormer as well.

?


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

I read that the same way as dbarjacres did. Bluemoon uses ivermectin for hw and then uses a dewormer.

Ivermectin is the main ingredient in hw medicine. The prescription stuff uses a very small dose. Used at recommended dosage, the otc ivermectin will not only get hw but most other internal parasites. Safeguard is what I use to get what ivermectin doesn't.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Haven said:


> Mine dont go to the vet till their 8 week exam. I do dew claws myself. I dont vaccinate before 8 weeks either.


I always take Mom/puppies into the vet within 48hrs to make sure she has passed everything ok, and have everyone checked and dewclaws done. Sometimes I have a sonogram done at that time if there is any question about any retained material. It just depends on the amount of discharge and if she might have retained something.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

dbarjacres said:


> BlueMoonLuck, why do you say ivermectin only kills HW? Many people use that regularly to deworm their dogs. Should get most worms but tapes and whips.





SFM in KY said:


> No, she said it does *not* get heartworm so has to treat for that separately.


This is what I said:



bluemoonluck said:


> If you give your dogs monthly Rx heartworm meds, most of them also include a dewormer. I use OTC ivermectin so my dogs don't get that added bonus.... just means I have to do a little more observation and pay for a fecal here and there.


If you give your dogs Rx HEARTGUARD, it is a combo of Ivermectin and Pyrantel Pamoate. I don't bother with the expensive Rx stuff, so I just give the OTC Ivermectin and OTC Pyrantel Pamoate separately.

My point was, if you're giving the Rx versions of heartworm preventative, you are not just taking care of heartworms - they also eliminate other internal parasites, so you're deworming your dogs monthly.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

bluemoonluck said:


> My point was, if you're giving the Rx versions of heartworm preventative, you are not just taking care of heartworms - they also eliminate other internal parasites, so you're deworming your dogs monthly.


Except tapeworm. You would still have to treat for those intermittently and whipworms depending on whom you ask. If you just keep the dogs flea free you can prevent most tapeworms though. I still use prazi 2x a year anyway just to be safe.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Otc heartworm meds don't really have enough pyrantel to treat rounds and hooks. That why the label says "controls" them instead. Just enough to get the easy to kill ones. I suspect we are creating resistance by having the low dose pyrantel in the pill.
Even with trifexis which is supposed to treat rounds and hooks, I still see tons of dogs with positive fecals even on it for a year. There just isn't enough in them and being every 4 weeks it doesn't break the life cycle.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

You could just read the label. It will tell you what it kills (or "controls") I use black walnut hull tincture for heartworm. It also kills other internal parasites. I also bring my dogs in once a year for a heartworm and fecal check.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Ivermectin is a good heartworm preventative. If your dog already has heartworm, Ivermectin will kill the dog. Iver is also good for mange mites and other external parasites. 

It has been my experience that all puppies are born with roundworms and you have to worm. As far as adults go, we fecal once a year. SOmetimes we have to worm, and sometimes we dont, but we live on a farm and our dogs like to taste poop. Thats worm infestation waiting to happen.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

lasergrl said:


> Otc heartworm meds don't really have enough pyrantel to treat rounds and hooks.


It also has ivermectin in the product. ANd that also kills round worms, hook worms and other worms that PPM won't touch.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> If your dog already has heartworm, Ivermectin will kill the dog.


Not true. I know a lot of people, vet techs included, believe this, but it is not true. Ivermectin is used to lighten the load before treatment with immiticide. And, in some cases, it is used to kill heartworms over a long term time in dogs where immiticide can not be afforded.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?h...worm+positive+dogs&btnG=&as_sdt=1,14&as_sdtp=


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

As the owner of a Collie, I want to remind people that many Collies and related breeds have a mutation that makes Ivermectin (and many other drugs) dangerous to them at normal doses. If you have a Collie, Border Collie, Australian Shepherd or related dog, it may be worthwhile to get the genetic test done to be sure what you are dealing with. My girl has one copy of the mutation, her breeder told me that is as difficult as two copies, to be very careful and gave me a list of drugs not to use on her. 

You can get the test done at Washington State University, its a cheek swab, simple and painless. It wasn't expensive (sorry don't remember how much it was, the breeder got a litter discount). They will mail you a kit with swabs and you mail it back. Easy and can save the life of your pet. I'm glad to know to be careful with her.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

mekasmom said:


> It also has ivermectin in the product. ANd that also kills round worms, hook worms and other worms that PPM won't touch.


 
The amount of ivermectin in heartgard is also way way low. It takes a much higher dose to touch internal parasites other then heartworms.
The amount needed to actually kill heartworm microfillaria is so low, they are a much easier to kill parasite at that stage. Now if you were giving the ivermectin in the doses used to treat demodex then you would definately be getting the buggers.


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## WstTxLady (Mar 14, 2009)

ok i noticed the OP hasnt ever responded back so i dont know whats up now...not all the story is there really


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

mekasmom said:


> Not true. I know a lot of people, vet techs included, believe this, but it is not true. Ivermectin is used to lighten the load before treatment with immiticide. And, in some cases, it is used to kill heartworms over a long term time in dogs where immiticide can not be afforded.
> http://scholar.google.com/scholar?h...worm+positive+dogs&btnG=&as_sdt=1,14&as_sdtp=


Interesting. I was always told of that by my vet when I was showing dogs alto, but he was pretty old school.


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## Willowynd (Mar 27, 2005)

OK I am going to chime in here. First Haven, if you have NEVER had worms in any pup or dog- how do you know? Have you had fecals done? Dogs can carry a worm load up to a certain number and be fine....exceed that number and they are ill. Worms live in soil...even in the northeast. Just because you have never had worms does not mean you never will. I was able to eradicate round worms in my pups by worming moms for several generations during pregnancy at the right time....but one ***** I missed the window and low and behold we had worms in pups. Round worms encyst in ***** puppies only to awaken during pregnancy to infect the puppies. makes- worm and keep them away from wormy areas (meaning ground outside for the most part) and you are good to go. Spayed bitches the same. Other dogs can stray on to your property and infect the soil with worms instantly. You can take fido to vet, park, regular walks and he steps on grass with worm eggs...licks paws later...infected. Sniffs poo then licks nose...infected. I never had whip worms in all the years I raised and bred collies...ever. I sent an adult ***** from my final litter to a new home and she had whips. I offered to pay for the worming and instructed them to confine her potty area where they could block access later to prevent it from getting in all thier soil. Meanwhile, I now know I need to worm my dogs regualrly for whips as it will be there forever. Where did they come from? Who knows...stray dog? My shoes carrying home eggs or a visitors? Point is worms of some type are gnerally present in all soil. Unless you do fecals regularly, you will not know for sure until worm load gets bad. 

OP...Pups need to be wormed every 2 weeks from birth to 12 weeks. I normally kept pups for 12 weeks for that reason as well as socialization and training. No pup should leave before 8 weeks. The reason is they need to learn to be a dog...they learn social skills from thier mom and litter mates. They may not need her 24/7 but they do need her and thier mates for periods of time each day so they can develop thier temperament to its full potential. They should be vet checked before they leave at a minimum and some states require it. Small breeds really should not leave till at least 10 weeks. They can have issues if not fed properly as a pup with blood sugars. I never knew a tiny breed show breeder that let thier pups go under 10 weeks....some keep them even longer. Breeding right is an expense...a large one. Breeding is not a place for you to cut corners with quality food, health care or health testing or placing pups early.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

This is the best post of the entire thread!:thumb::thumb:



Willowynd said:


> OK I am going to chime in here. First Haven, if you have NEVER had worms in any pup or dog- how do you know? Have you had fecals done? Dogs can carry a worm load up to a certain number and be fine....exceed that number and they are ill. Worms live in soil...even in the northeast. Just because you have never had worms does not mean you never will. I was able to eradicate round worms in my pups by worming moms for several generations during pregnancy at the right time....but one ***** I missed the window and low and behold we had worms in pups. Round worms encyst in ***** puppies only to awaken during pregnancy to infect the puppies. makes- worm and keep them away from wormy areas (meaning ground outside for the most part) and you are good to go. Spayed bitches the same. Other dogs can stray on to your property and infect the soil with worms instantly. You can take fido to vet, park, regular walks and he steps on grass with worm eggs...licks paws later...infected. Sniffs poo then licks nose...infected. I never had whip worms in all the years I raised and bred collies...ever. I sent an adult ***** from my final litter to a new home and she had whips. I offered to pay for the worming and instructed them to confine her potty area where they could block access later to prevent it from getting in all thier soil. Meanwhile, I now know I need to worm my dogs regualrly for whips as it will be there forever. Where did they come from? Who knows...stray dog? My shoes carrying home eggs or a visitors? Point is worms of some type are gnerally present in all soil. Unless you do fecals regularly, you will not know for sure until worm load gets bad.
> 
> OP...Pups need to be wormed every 2 weeks from birth to 12 weeks. I normally kept pups for 12 weeks for that reason as well as socialization and training. No pup should leave before 8 weeks. The reason is they need to learn to be a dog...they learn social skills from thier mom and litter mates. They may not need her 24/7 but they do need her and thier mates for periods of time each day so they can develop thier temperament to its full potential. They should be vet checked before they leave at a minimum and some states require it. Small breeds really should not leave till at least 10 weeks. They can have issues if not fed properly as a pup with blood sugars. I never knew a tiny breed show breeder that let thier pups go under 10 weeks....some keep them even longer. Breeding right is an expense...a large one. Breeding is not a place for you to cut corners with quality food, health care or health testing or placing pups early.


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## Willowynd (Mar 27, 2005)

Ivermectin will kill heartworm over a period of time...it is called the slow kill methoed. You use heartgard monthly and cycle it with doxycline for a better result. Heartworm will be killed in 6 mo to 2 yrs. That said, the damage the heartworms do will also continue until they are killed. It is an option I used on 3 dogs many years ago when I had some come down with it while on the daily meds. Vet opted for it as he felt immiticide would be more harmful to a collie as they are sensitive to meds. One ***** was clear in 6 mo, another took a year and the moderately affected boy who was symptomatic took 2 yrs.
Yes, the amount of ivermectin in heartguard is NOT enough to kill other worms. That is why they have the heartgard plus which contains pyrantel too for rounds and hooks. Neither med will kill whips. For that you need panacur.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

GrannyCarol said:


> You can get the test done at Washington State University, its a cheek swab, simple and painless. It wasn't expensive (sorry don't remember how much it was, the breeder got a litter discount). They will mail you a kit with swabs and you mail it back. Easy and can save the life of your pet. I'm glad to know to be careful with her.



I can't find this test on their website...what it called or can you help me find it?


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Ivermectin can be used to kill adult heartworms, but it kills them slowly and gradually. When a dog I adopted came with heartworms, my vet offered this method, but my fear was that an adult heartworm would die while the dog was running around, lodge in the lungs, and cause a pulmonary embolism which would kill him. This is the reason why you are supposed to keep the dog quiet and calm during heartworm treatment--you don't want their heart rate to go up and start flushing big hunks of worm through the circulatory system. At least during the traditional treatment, you know WHEN the worms are dying and breaking up, and you can take measures to keep the dog quiet and calm. Believe me, it wasn't easy keeping a 130 lb. Akbash Dog quiet and calm for three months--it seemed like forever that he had to be crated/kenneled and we both hated it, but to me, the alternative would have been worse.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

There's a link on this page:

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/


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## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

Dogs (and other animals) can often appear entirely healthy with a huge wormload until a major stress pushes things over the edge. Weaning (especially weaning early) can absolutely be this stress. The puppy could have appeared healthy while it was in your care, but if it was never wormed or vetted, and weaned at 7 weeks, it is plausible that it died 8 days later from a massive wormload. 

I agree you should offer them a refund and call the other buyers to warn them.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

GrannyCarol said:


> There's a link on this page:
> 
> http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/


thanks Grannycarol!


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

JasoninMN said:


> Did they yake this puppy yo a vet or is that just what they are speculating killed it? I doubt worms killed the puppy. My guess would be parvo or another virus did and the vaccine was probably not effective since only one was done and at 7 weeks.


Would this affect say only one in a litter and not the others?


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

If a pup has Parvo, chances are they all in the litter do. They get the yellow poop storm, then walk in it mom cleaning up injests it.
Pups should be wormed at 2-4-6-8-10-12-16-20-24 weeks. Then every 3 months for a regular preventive program.
When you go to lots of shows/competitions the dogs are subject to a higher concentration of possibles _(think of NYC for dog worms) _
I alternate monthly use of Pro Wormer 2 and invermectin. _(yes ivermec kills heart worms, not the dog, but it is only $7.00 cant make any money on that)_
I highly recommend people check this book out. Every puppy that leaves here goes to their new home with a copy at my expense. 
http://www.oldcountryvet.com/


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Haven said:


> Must be luck I guess. I suppose living in the north with hard winters helps.
> 
> Still wondering if you guys all have worms confirmed with fecal floats, or just worm all the time as a precaution.


We never had worms eather, when our Angel got sick, first thing they did was check his blood. His hemagloben had issues,so they checked for worms -Hopeing that he had just worms. He had none ,never figured out what was wrong with him. Then Sasha came up sick, they didn't check for worms, later they checked and she had whips, but passed because of cancer after 3 treatments for whips(and she was clean). No worms in our Shady, I wormed anyway. No worms in our new Kally, wormed anyway.


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