# woods utility rifle



## GREENCOUNTYPETE

from the model 7 upgraded thread I got thinking about the statement of how many of us like short light quick handling rifles/guns , for some that is definitely the Rem Model 7

I spend a lot of time thinking about use what some might call philosophy of use.

generally for me shots are not that far most all under 130 yards although I would like to be able to confidently take a 200 yard shot if one would present the opportunity. I can confidently take 200 yards shots on targets just game at that distance has really never presented it's self.

adequately powerful that I can get an exit wound and take whatever shot presents.
overall length 40 inches or less
magazine capacity 5 or more
weight under 8 pounds

for some a shotgun may fill this , what I find in shotguns is that it just doesn't seem to make sense to me that there are so many 18 inch guns that won't take a choke tube and the 26 inch guns are the exact same price or less and do take a choke tube. that just seems sort of foolish to not make the shorter guns with interchangeable choke tubes.
why is it that a maverick 88 12ga 28 inch vent rib barrel with accu-choke is 189.99 but the 18.5 inch cylinder barrel 199.99 seriously the only difference is the barrel and the 18 inch cost more , really, why? and you can get the combo for 219.99 with both barrels (academy prices)
looking at velocity comparisons you loose about 100 fps going with a barrel that is 18-20 inches compared to a 26 inch barrel 

mossberg even makes a Model 500 20 and 24 inch barrel with choke tube that they sell as turkey guns these should be offered on a lot more than turkey guns 

I believe a lot of what made the Model 94 so popular is that it connected with users making shots to 100-150 possible , but being really effective on most everything at the much more common distances off 25-75 yards for msot game , not to much for recoil , fit in a 38 inch long package with the 20 inch barrel and was quick to the shoulder, quick follow up shots and reliable , it also lasted and fits in the under 8 pounds weighing 7.5# from the factory. 

the model 7 comes in just under 40 inches and at a bare weight of 6.5# in a number of cartridges that can certainly get the job done to 200 yards and then some.

what fits this category for you ?

what defines utility rifle for you ?

what are your characteristics , length , weight , caliber?


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## alleyyooper

I carried a Model 94 Wiunchester in 30-30 for years, hunted woods some cedar swamp and field with it.
Around about 1968 my hunting partner and I sat down and talked of going to Ont. Canada to hunt moose. At that time you could buy the tag and do a slef hunt over the counter.
So despite knowing many a Canadain had harvested a moose with a 30-30 in a model 94 or a marlin 336 I decided I wanted more power.

A winchester Model 100 fit what I had in mind till I started shooting it. As soon as I started shooting it I became dissatisfied with it. I'm a reloader and was not at all happy searching for my brass in grass, snow and leaves.
When My brothers blew in to well over 140 pieces I had enough and got rid of it.

Oh I got another 308 but a bolt action model 700 Remington, started my affair with Remingtons 700.
Still hung on to my 30-30 how ever as my cedar swamp rifle and got to be knowen in the famly as Al's sluming rifle because it went hunting in the rain, wet sticky snow and down in the cedar swamp.

I picked up a Winchester 94 in 32 winchester special which had a peep sight.
Was for me a lot better in the swamp because that peep sight allowed more light in around the sight so could get on target quicker.

I hunted with 4 rifles till the mid 1990's, 2 Remington 700's a 243 and a 308, 2 winchester model 94's 30-30 and 32 winchester special.

Eyes really could not use buck horn sights worth a hoot so wanted a scoped short rifle, talkiing to my hunting partner and a wife eves dropping heard me say I wanted a 7mm08 with a Pentex light seeker scope.

While i was up at deer camp along about 1994 she went and bought me a new Remington 700(ya she knew the 700 is my favorite action.) in 7mm08.
Was my christmas gife that year but finally I let it out I was really wanting a cedar swamp rifle, short and quick to the shoulder and eye.
Cedar swamp at deer camp is so thick I carried pruneing shears to cut paths thru it rather than crawl in spots.

Later in the spring the Model 7 Remington in 7mm08 with a Pentex light seeker scope became my new cedar swamp rifle. Short quick deadly from 8 steps to 300 yards across cranberry bogs.
Works great for me.


My brother replaces his blowen up Winchester model 100 in 308 with a Remington 760 (?) carbine in 308. Now that is a short package well thought out caliber package for cedar swamp hunting except like the auto loader brass goes where it wants if you don't make up some sort of catcher.

Still it is ideal, short and quick to the shoulder and good for ranges across soy bean fields or cranberry marshes.

I still like my model 7 in 7mm08 however.
My Remington 870 Slugger is very nice short quick to the shoulder and in 20ga light recoil. Today if I were going up to deer camp and planed on any cedar swamp hunting I would only change the scope from the dusk to dawn Bushnell to a Pentex light seeker.


 Al


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## justascout1

Steyr Scout rifle


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## Fishindude

If I'm just out for a romp in the woods, it's usually a Ruger 77, .22 rimfire that goes along with me.
Not much around here you can't kill with it out to about 75 yards.


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## GTX63

A utility gun to me is one I can throw in the truck or atv or pull from behind the shop door for predators. That can range from my 10/22s to a mini 14.
And all around hunt gun for me is an 870 with combo barrels, though I vary from a 270 to ARs to others.
I prefer a shorter gun I can get thru brush or swing in a hallway.
I occasionally have a Winchester Model 97 that I'll take out and long guns just seem a little too awkward for me.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

no doubt the 760 carbine was an excellent package , that is one you never see on the used rack.

I have the 742 the semi auto in 30-06 however with the 22 inch barrel purchased it when I was 14 Remington got the handling of that rifle very right , the magazine is so-so and the internals of the semi autos unfortunately eat themselves in the 30-06 which is what they made the most of. the 308 and carbine length 18 inch barrel is another one you hardly ever find on the used rack.I took my buck with it this year , I wish I had the 18 but I manage with the 22 inch barrel still a quick to shoulder gun , I run a 2-7x32 Vortex scope. a compromise on length but one of my go to hunting guns now.
I downloaded 30-06 to 308 velocities and think I have found the solution to the 30-06 eating the receiver with the bolt lugs. it is a fast shooter now with less recoil also the 165 gr bullet is still doing it's job putting down deer. with my reloads the brass is about 5 feet in-front of my right toe , it used to be about 15-20 feet away.
I can live with a few pieces of lost brass when hunting , but I dislike loosing it at the range.

a truly ideal gun would be 
sub 40 inches 
sub 8 pounds loaded
308 win
semi auto
magazine size of 5 option for more
with great handling controls and trigger 
if it could also come at a price of 500 out the door before optics it should be a seller.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

the mini 14 is certainly a very utilitarian rifle , until you get to deer or greater size game , then the mini 30 takes the lead
but if deer season is closed the 223 is a very utilitarian round.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

justascout1 said:


> Steyr Scout rifle


yes , cooper was definitely on to something with that.

with a lack of really good semi autos in the field and the utility , durability and simplicity of the bolt action it makes a very logical compromise on shot time to have all the rest , the scout or even just low powered optic mounted with generous eye relief makes a very handy gun.

the price of more than 1500 before optic makes it a little much for an every day toss it in the truck and go gun.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

some Lever rifles that fit my definition of utility gun.
sub 40 inch , sub 8 pound , 5 round or larger mag, very common available ammo at a reasonable price , under 500 for the bare rifle , has parts available and can be maintained.

Win model 94 30-30 
38 inches for 20 inch barrel or shorter for the trapper 16.6 inch barrel
7.5 pounds (factory avg weight)
6+1 less for the trapper model
your going to have to look used to find one under $500

Marlin model 336 
38.5 inches for 20 inch barrel , shorter for the 16.5 inch model
mine is 7 pounds 15.9 ounces but is carrying after market front sight , rear peep sight , a stock sleeve and 8 rounds of 170gr ammo and a sling so it is under 8 pounds just barely headed out the door to the truck. 
6+1 less on the short barrel model
499.99 at the store new yesterday when I looked 
used about 400 depending on year and condition

Mossberg 464
38.5 inches 
6.7 pounds (factory avg)
6+1 rounds 
priced about $450 new


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## justascout1

If I was restricted to only one long arm and not a semi, I’d be ok with just the Steyr, backed up with a handgun. It does everything well, not great, but good enough. It’s light, ergonomic and comfortable. Quick handling with awesome eye relief and accurate to 1 MOA as long as I do my job out to 600-700 yards.


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## Cabin Fever

For me a woods utility rifle would be something that is lightweight, something that I would carry into the woods or a canoe for any occasion (even just a hike by foot or snowshoe), and something I wouldn't mind getting dinged up or wet. 

For me, an old Savage Model 24 would do in .22lr over 20 gauge.


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## Bearfootfarm

Cabin Fever said:


> For me, an old Savage Model 24 would do in .22lr over 20 gauge.


I had one of those when I was much younger and it was a lot of fun when just wandering in the woods. 

Someone stole it though, and I never replaced it.


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## Cabin Fever

Bearfootfarm said:


> I had one of those when I was much younger and it was a lot of fun when just wandering in the woods.
> 
> Someone stole it though, and I never replaced it.


I've been looking for one and can't seem to find a decent one.


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## Bearfootfarm

Cabin Fever said:


> I've been looking for one and can't seem to find a decent one.


All those Model 24 variations cost an arm and a leg now too.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

often a shotgun is my go too utility gun
low cost.
really inside 50 yards there isn't to much you can't do with a shotgun.
it would be nice to have a 20 or 24 inch barrel rifled sights and a choke tube.

the nice part about many shotguns is they can be apart and dried out in a few minutes.

Al my slumming gun is a 12 ga rain , snow , all day drizzel . shots will likely be close were the foster slugs work well

the Improved cylinder 24 inch smooth bore slug barrel shoots foster slugs very well and does decent with shot also , I din't have it with when deer hunting but I had a pheasant walk up to withing about 10 feet of me , then when I moved at the bird it took flight , slipping a shell in would have been a bird on the table.


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## JJ Grandits

Always wanted a model 24 in .22mag over 20ga. Figured that would be the perfect survival/woods gun.

My number one woods/ utility firearm is my old Ithica 37.
20" cylinder bore with Remington rifle sights on it. With 48 years experience with it I can count on it better than my best friends.
That gun, my Western model 49 bowie knife, and my old Black Locust hiking stick ( with probably over a hundred coats of linseed oil on it) have together had many adventures over the years. Many a night alone in the woods they have given me great comfort.
If you add my bastardized fly rod with the ultra light spinning reel duct taped to it, I could not think of four things I would rather be buried with.


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## alleyyooper

I suppose it all depends on what you want to do in the woods? Where you live and the legal aspect and all that.

I posted above thinking deer hunting but for just wandering in the woods and shooting a squirrel or rabbit or just shooting a tree a attacking stray dog or a coyote is awful hard to beat my Rugar single six with the 22Mag cylinder installed.

The 22LR cylinder installed is a very nice can killer, be it pork N beans with honey can, or a little 10oz tomato soup can.
Still will take out squirrels, rabbit, ***** and slow into every thing pussom.

If you think you may incounter a freezer deer a 357 Rugar black hawk is also a handy quick pointing fire arm.

But as I said I took it to mean for deer hunting.

I much perfur my Rugar 77- 220 swift for coyoytes with wind speed under 15 MPH. the Remington 700 in 243 for wind over 15 MPH.

 Al


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

it can mean anything , deer hunting , coyote , squirrel ect 

in thinking utility I was thinking of an it can do nearly everything from deer to coyote , hogs if you have them , bear if your worried about them,a kills what needs killing gun.
even though deer season is just a few weeks of the year in many places something that could legally kill deer was in my thoughts
it does depend on the location and laws , in the south deer season is months long , but the deer are also small typically.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

a shotgun definitely can fill the role and often is the least expensive option
one of the issues with shotguns is length , while the chronograph results don't show a huge loss between a 20 and 26 inch barrel the number of 20 inch barrels with a choke other than improved cylinder is pathetically small and largely limited to turkey specialty guns and youth guns.

I have to admit I seriously considered several times buying a 20ga 870 youth 21 inch vent rib barrel then mounting a replacement butt stock.
it seemed sort of ridiculous to pay for a new gun then pay for a new stock to make what I wanted , because it seemed so few 24 and shorter barrel shotguns exist in anything but a youth gun.
then I happened into very well priced Mossberg's to fill my want well enough I got the 2 guns for just a touch more than what the rem youth 20 ga and new stock would have cost me.

shotguns are definitely a compromise on range and I don't reload for them there is not great savings to reload for them any more so it is all purchased ammo.


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## JJ Grandits

If I was living in an area full of open spaces a rifle would be the ticket. But here is WNY cover is pretty thick. Even with a cylinder bore it fits my needs. With slugs it is absolute dead nuts at 50 yds. It has taken more deer, rabbit, squirrel, grouse and woodcock than I can count. If the poop hits the fan #4 buckshot speaks with extreme authority.

Taught my children three rules to live by,
3) Never pay retail
2) Never argue with an idiot
1) ALWAYS grab the shotgun


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## alleyyooper

For me rather than by a youth model and a new longer adult stock for a shot gun and wanting a short barreled one I would shop for a used 870 take it to a smith bet the barrel cut off and tapped to except remchokes.

Or by the home defence model with the open choke short barrel and get it tapped to except remchokes.

We on occation use a shot gun for shooting coyotes. The coyotes have to be a real problem in a area where homes are close to gether and we can't set up some place draw them to a area we can use a rifle.
We use our tighest chokes usually improved full or full, coyote buster ammo or #4 buck shot.
We don't even think of selling the hides way more sewing than it is worth.

 Al


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## Cornhusker

If I'm just wandering around the tree row or not too far into the hills, I'll carry a shotgun, especially this time of year.
If I'm thinking I want to shoot a pheasant, I'll generally take my Model 1100 20 gauge. If I'm just checking cameras or whatnot, I'll take my 20 inch Mossberg 500 and some buckshot.
If I go out in the hills, I'll take a rifle, usually an AR-15 or a 94 in 30-30.
We don't really have woods where I live.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

alleyyooper said:


> For me rather than by a youth model and a new longer adult stock for a shot gun and wanting a short barreled one I would shop for a used 870 take it to a smith bet the barrel cut off and tapped to except remchokes.
> 
> Or by the home defence model with the open choke short barrel and get it tapped to except remchokes.
> 
> We on occation use a shot gun for shooting coyotes. The coyotes have to be a real problem in a area where homes are close to gether and we can't set up some place draw them to a area we can use a rifle.
> We use our tighest chokes usually improved full or full, coyote buster ammo or #4 buck shot.
> We don't even think of selling the hides way more sewing than it is worth.
> 
> Al


you make a good point , I generally thought the youth model with the stock would cost less than the adult with a barrel cut and choke.
if you can buy used or already have the gun then barrel cut and choke makes a lot more sense.

I may be strange but I also found the iron sights on the smooth bore slug barrel very useful when shooting clay.
I have another shotgun that has not a rear sight but sort of a valley contour to the receiver I know if I have the bead centered over that and just above it I am all lined up


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Cornhusker said:


> If I'm just wandering around the tree row or not too far into the hills, I'll carry a shotgun, especially this time of year.
> If I'm thinking I want to shoot a pheasant, I'll generally take my Model 1100 20 gauge. If I'm just checking cameras or whatnot, I'll take my 20 inch Mossberg 500 and some buckshot.
> If I go out in the hills, I'll take a rifle, usually an AR-15 or a 94 in 30-30.
> We don't really have woods where I live.


if the 20 inch 500 had a modified choke how likely would you be to take it more often with some shot and buckshot?
3 of the 4 guns you normally use fit the sub 40 inch even if that hadn't been a thought , just that they were handy.
the 1100 20 is probably light enough and easy to carry that it makes up for the few inches of more barrel.

the woods , the hills close enough , I said woods because it typically limits the range visible and adds brush and limbs and such to catch on.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I called a local gun smith , but they don't thread chokes. I was talking with the gun shop guy who answered the phone and talked about why all the short 18 and 20 inch barrels come cylinder only security models , when for the same price a 28 inch barrel comes with choke tubes.
at across the room distances it hardly makes a difference but why not be able to change out the chokes and use the same gun for coyote , clay , and a variety of game. 
some people thing they need the spread but don't realize at across the room distance it doesn't spread enough to not have to aim like it's a rifle a big pattern at 15 feet is still smaller than your fist. at the longest I could get across my house 30 feet it would still be sub 6 inches max spread.
like I told the store guy why wouldn't I want to able to load my HD gun up with buck shot and a dead coyote choke this is an extra full specifically for tight patterns out far.

my go to shot gun for bird shot or buck shot is a M500 28 inch barrel I almost all ways run a full choke most of the time I am bird hunting it is with kids and I let them shoot first , then clean up if it doesn't go down.
it is light enough that I just live with the length.

I am thinking If I can find a place to thread chokes , my 870 20 inch barrel is going in first , it is nothing spectacular , pattern is big and slug accuracy is so-so it basically has no where to go but get better.
this was an old police gun it is sound but it could use a choke to make it more useful.


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## Bearfootfarm

You can get Benelli's with 21" barrels and screw in chokes.


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## muleskinner2

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I believe a lot of what made the Model 94 so popular is that it connected with users making shots to 100-150 possible , but being really effective on most everything at the much more common distances off 25-75 yards for msot game , not to much for recoil , fit in a 38 inch long package with the 20 inch barrel and was quick to the shoulder, quick follow up shots and reliable , it also lasted and fits in the under 8 pounds weighing 7.5# from the factory.


Don't underestimate the 30-30. I carry an old Marlin 336 in my truck, and routinely kill coyotes at two hundred yards. It is fitted with a set of Skinner peep sights.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Bearfootfarm said:


> You can get Benelli's with 21" barrels and screw in chokes.


it seems no longer in the Nova https://www.benelliusa.com/nova-pump-field-shotgun 24 and 28 seem the only options for the 12 ga nova

I can get a 20" in the Mossberg turkey it is 2 models in a line up of 20 models of Mossberg 500 12 ga.
the deer turkey combo has a 24 inch barrel.
there are a 11 of 20 with 12 ga cyclinder bore. 

I was looking at some numbers , the box o truth guys did some velocity testing with a 36 , 26 and 20 inch 12 ga and 3 types of ammo a hunting load of #6 , a load of buck shot and a slug running the numbers the 20 inch barrel appears to have very consistently 90-91% of the 36 inch barrels velocity and 95-96% of the 26 inch barrels velocity.

https://www.theboxotruth.com/barrel-length-shotgun-affect-velocity/

for 95% velocity of the most common 26-28 inch barrel it would seem there should be a lot more 18-20s around with choke tubes just in case manufacturers are listening.

confidence in a gun is familiarity with a gun , across the room shot patters matter none they are all to small to worry about , but the ability to use that gun for meaningful practice on game and clay would be good training.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

muleskinner2 said:


> Don't underestimate the 30-30. I carry an old Marlin 336 in my truck, and routinely kill coyotes at two hundred yards. It is fitted with a set of Skinner peep sights.


it will definitely get there and no doubt it will kill with a hit.
not sure it is a moose , bear or elk gun at 200 like it can be as shorter distance.


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## Bearfootfarm

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> it seems no longer in the Nova


Mine's an M1S90, but things may have changed since then.
Often the barrels have to be swaged to make room for the chokes.

I find longer barrels easier for wingshooting, but once you get used to the short ones they can be as accurate too. I don't worry much about velocities at shotgun distances.

I did see an interesting video last night about a double ball load that was pretty accurate from a smooth bore barrel, but that's sort of a different topic.


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## muleskinner2

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> it will definitely get there and no doubt it will kill with a hit.
> not sure it is a moose , bear or elk gun at 200 like it can be as shorter distance.


I have never shot a moose with a 30-30, but I have killed three of them with a .44 magnum at fifty to sixty yards. And one with a .222 Remington, at twenty five yards. If a man can't get within one hundred yards of a moose or elk, he isn't much of a hunter.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

bearfoot , maybe another thread , I am on a reloading forum also , there is a guy in the shotgun reloading forum that is a missionary in south america. in the Amazon , he developed a simple round ball load , it is very simple they basically melt and pour the round ball out of the shot they dumped from the shot shells they have available to them then they place the ball back in the wad on a couple of cards and fold the crimp back down, it is one of the only things they found to penetrate Big problem alligators.
shotguns and shot are about the only available arms and ammo in the area.


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## muleskinner2

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> bearfoot , maybe another thread , I am on a reloading forum also , there is a guy in the shotgun reloading forum that is a missionary in south america. in the Amazon , he developed a simple round ball load , it is very simple they basically melt and pour the round ball out of the shot they dumped from the shot shells they have available to them then they place the ball back in the wad on a couple of cards and fold the crimp back down, it is one of the only things they found to penetrate Big problem alligators.
> shotguns and shot are about the only available arms and ammo in the area.


In Liberia, West Africa I saw village hunters do the same thing. They were all using Brazilin made single shot .12 gauges. The ivory poachers used them. They would stalk up to ten or fifteen feet of the Elephant, and shoot them behind the foreleg through the heart. The Elephant would run straight ahead for fifty yards or do and pile up.


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## alleyyooper

Contact Briley -1103-20-gauge-automatic-and-pump-choke-installation.aspx 
But I think cheaper to find a local gun smith.

Call Williams gun sight company and talk to them
800-530-9028

 Al


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I will check around , with the bryley prices it would be less expensive to order a new gun

I am very good at JJGrandits 3rd rule never pay retail the 870 I would put a choke in the barrel I only paid 125 dollars for so I think it will stay how it is.
I will check Williams tomorrow but I was thinking it was something that could be done for 100 dollars and a 20 dollar choke tube not almost 300

I looked at the tooling about 160 for the reamer , 160 for the tap and 16 dollars a bushing


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## markt1

I have a Stoeger double barrel coach shotgun with a 20" barrel in 20 gauge. Rio makes a #1 buckshot shell for it.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

markt1 said:


> I have a Stoeger double barrel coach shotgun with a 20" barrel in 20 gauge. Rio makes a #1 buckshot shell for it.


my neighbor keeps a side by side a Baikal it has a huge trigger guard which is a big part of why he likes so he can hunt with what ever gloves he is wearing and not need a glove with a small finger. he runs an IC and a full choke in the barrels it's a fairly short gun. Down side is he says Russian steel rusts overnight so you have to be very diligent about wiping it down every time he comes home , it might look strange but it might be the perfect candidate for a cericoat or duricoat but he is cheaper than I am so he just oils it. I just gave him the end of a can of Hornady one shot cleaner and lube to try on it , it has 168 hours of keeping bare metal from rusting in a multi day rain test so hopefully no more rust to scrub off.


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## alleyyooper

I always thought Briley's was expencive my self and would not buy any thing they have for sale. But they do include 3 choke tubes with the service.
The toold to do it your self are 160.00 at brownells.

This company will do a barrel for $100.00.
http://www.comp-n-choke.com/product/BRLTHRD.html

125.00 at this company.
http://www.colonialchokeandtool.com/choke-tube-installation-service/

Have you thought of a poly choke? Below is a 20ga model.












I have a old Western Field (Noble MFG.) 16ga with a poly choke and learned how to use it and love it.
Still use it for ducks and phesants today.

 Al


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## JJ Grandits

When I was 14 years old I saved up enough money to buy my first shotgun. It was a Mossberg model 52K 20 ga. three shot bolt action with a polychoke. Bought it at K Mart for $42. Ugly as sin but I loved that gun. I could work that bolt faster than some guys could work a pumpgun.
The polychoke was a great idea that never caught on. Lets face it, it looks like a pig on roller skates.

My son has it now. It doesn't see any action, but after 50 years it still works perfectly. The only downside was that it could not throw a slug for crap.
Might just take it out for rabbit again. For something that ugly it handled real fast.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

i have a poly and a C-lect choke 

the Mossbergs mostly came from the factory with the C-lect choke but it looked very very similar to a poly choke just there version of it.

I know some say they don't work as well but it worked for me.

never tried a slug from the C-lect choke , I hunted one that had had a C-lect choke one of my very first years hunting , it was missing some parts in the choke , story was a cousin shot a slug through it without opening the choke.


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## alleyyooper

In the 1960's in this area was hard to find a person that didn't have a poly choke on there shot gun or a cutts compersator.
The cutts was not as pouplar it seemed except on Winchesters as they were factory installed. They also required different cleaning I've been told.

 Al


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