# What do you do about frozen water?



## freedomfrom4 (Jul 27, 2009)

So it is still above freezing acording to the wether people but not according to the rabbits water system. What do you do for water in the winter? Tonight I will put a bowl of water in each rabbits cage I guess. My water setup during the summer was a 5 gallon bucket with about 6 feet total of pvc pipe going to the cages.Has anyone tried dropping one of the deicers in there water bucket? Do you think the water will just freeze on down in the pvc pipe? My hubby was wondering about running heat tape the length of the pipe.
Any thoughts?
When I just had a few rabbits I never had a problem with thier waters freezing very often.


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## Old Swampgirl (Sep 28, 2008)

I used to go out with a bucket of warm water & made sure each rabbit had some liquid water twice a day. They will learn to come drink after a couple of times. They may not eat as well, because they won't eat if they are thirsty. Hopefully this won't be long. don't know where you're located. Watch for split pvc pipe or tubing due to the freeze.


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## Bamboorabbit (Jan 22, 2009)

freedomfrom4 said:


> What do you do about frozen water?



Live somewhere where water does not freeze lol


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

There are lots of old threads on this subject. Here's one from a couple of weeks ago, just in case you missed it.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=332050


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

have 2 dishes per rabbit, switch them out and bring the frozen ones in to thaw. use warm water 2-4 times a day.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

It's so darned cold here, I've switched tactics this year.

I take out a 5 gallon bucket of hot water. Start at one end of the cages, collecting all the frozen water dishes. By the time I've collected the last one, the first one in is defrosted. I then fill the bowls with the now warm water (the cold bowls plus the ice make it drinking temp) and start watering the rabbits.

Usually, I wait around b/c some cages will finish off their water and want seconds (multiple rabbits in the cage). 

Only do it twice a day regularly, and they figure out that they'd better drink up. But if it's been really really COLD (like yesterday and today), I make an extra trip outside.


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## Bonnie L (May 11, 2002)

rose2005 said:


> I bought heated rabbit waterers last year that worked just fine. The bottle on the side of the cage thing. You re-filled them from the top and the drinking spout did not freeze.
> 
> We dont have any rabbits right now, but I thought I would share that.
> 
> ...


Oh man! I want those! But I don't have the money right now. :Bawling:


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

I have rather large pens - In the past we used chicken waterers on heated bases but that gets messy to deal with in the winter. 

So this year we are trying something different. So far it's only gotten down to about 10F and things are working fine. We'll see how it works when we get -10F degree weather (or colder). 

There are four larger pens side by side. So I cut a hole between the pens and put in a small shelf (the top board is attached to the wall also).

We bought small water nipples from Bass Supply and got two square horse buckets - the type that hang over a gate rail. Installed two nipples in each side of the bucket so each pen has two. 

Here is one side of the bucket. 










And the other side.









This pen has kits in it so I put a small platform under the unit so the kits could reach. They are almost big enough for me to remove it now. Being high up keeps the rabbits from pushing hay and bedding against the nipples. 

Though it is hard to see - the top board is attached in such a way that the bucket is physically unable to slide all the way through the opening. It is very easy to lift the buck out to rinse or add water. We have a board that we use to block the opening between the pens when we take the bucket out - though I'm sure the bucks would love having a door into the doe's pens. 

To keep things from freezing, we put a small heater in there. This is designed for bird baths and has more than one thermostat to keep it around 50F. It is not the type that just heats no matter what. It is also safe to use in a plastic bucket. They cost about $25. 










We've had to pretty warm until this week, but it has barely gotten above freezing the last few days, and much colder at night. So far this is keeping the water warm enough to keep the nipples from freezing up. 

We have one of the heated bottles shown above for the small cages pens (used when we need to keep a rabbit separate). The only problem we had with that was at one time we had a rabbit that thought it was fun to play with and would empty the water out in an hour- and leave a wet freezing mess on the floor. 

Cathy


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## Bamboorabbit (Jan 22, 2009)

Very inventive and resourceful. Seems well thought out and looks like it works like a charm.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Excellent system, Cathy! And great pictures too. 

I may be worrying about nothing, but is it possible for an adventurous young bun to hop onto the wooden lid and chew the cord to the heater? I'd be happier to see it protected by a section of PVC conduit. 

*But it is a great system!* :goodjob:

~ Maggie (paid-up member of the *Belt and Suspenders Club*.)


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## o&itw (Dec 19, 2008)

I agree, for indoor colony it would seem to be ideal. 

I got aluminum crocks this year, that are heavy and won't break, They are pricy, but I may try to get a few more at a time so I can simply switch crocks every day. I really don't have time to warm them up enough to dump out the ice, but I guess I will be stuck doing that until I get enough to switch them. 

It is not ideal. Rabbits will not eat much when they have no water, so the crocks work only till the water freezes, which may be only a few hours on very cold nights.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

That grey part of the cord is actually flexible metal casing. They would have to reach up and get hold of the black part before they could chew anything. 

When we used the heated bases, DH made a stand for the base to sit on that did have a 2' tall PVC pipe sticking up for the cord to run through. He is well aware of the damage a rodent (usually mice) can do to electrical wires. All our outbuildings have wire run in conduit now.

I'm very fortunate to have a DH that is handy with stuff like that (he's fixing my car today) and he's fortunate to have a wife that loves to grow/raise/cook our own food. 

Cathy


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Macybaby said:


> That grey part of the cord is actually flexible metal casing. They would have to reach up and get hold of the black part before they could chew anything.
> 
> When we used the heated bases, DH made a stand for the base to sit on that did have a 2' tall PVC pipe sticking up for the cord to run through. He is well aware of the damage a rodent (usually mice) can do to electrical wires. All our outbuildings have wire run in conduit now.
> 
> ...


Great! I'm glad you have taken care of that potential problem. :goodjob:

Sounds like you and DH make a great team!


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## Willowynd (Mar 27, 2005)

You can use heat tape on the pvc pipes. Just make sure the rabbits cannot reach the heat tape. If you have a stock water heater in your bucket, that is also a key. I want so bad to get a system in place like that, but this summer was spent building on to the rabbitry.


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## mamato3 (Nov 1, 2008)

im in that predicament right know. We are behind on getting our water system winterized. we have a 55 gallon plastic barrel and pvc pipes our barrel has a heater in it and has not froze our lines have so we need to go shopping and buy somthing for them i want to open the shut of valve alittle and insulate the lines with those foam wrap things and cardboard to hopefully keep buns from chewing the foam hubby wants heat tape here is our setup scroll down to inside veiw
http://randtrabbitry.com/Rabbitry.html


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## Tracy (May 2, 2002)

Heat tape makes a huge difference as other said don't let the rabbits be able to chew on it. The insulated Styrofoam over the PC lines will help also. Again don't let the rabbits get to it.
We just plug our heat tape in yesterday. This will keep the lines from freezing. The nipple valves will freeze if extremely cold but we will take a portable propane heater and turn it on for a hour or so and this will thaw the nipple valves.

For people that don't have automatic water but have electric go to tractor supply and buy your self a heated water bucket like this http://www.tractorsupply.com/livestock/livestock-equipment/stock-tanks-accessories/stock-tank-heaters/allied-precision-heated-bucket-16-gal--2170851

Fill it up and plug it in. You will always have thawed water. You can toss your water bottles in there to thaw and then fill them up once thawed or use the water to thaw crocks. This is the easiest and less labor intensive way of doing water in the winter IMO


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I was thinking about making a circulated automatic watering system. All you'd need is an in-line pump, circular piping system, and a water de-icer for the bucket. That way, water is kept moving through the piping constantly. For a small setup in areas that don't get too terribly cold, pipe heat tape might not be necessary. I'd probably wrap mine with the heat tape, however, just because it's so danged cold. Once I feel like embarking on a project, I think I'll give it a try, but for now I do the plastic tupperware idea.


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

they lick ice like a popsicles in the wild, they can do it in the rabbit hutch. I also make sure they can drink a few times a day.


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## Maplesugars (Jan 23, 2008)

My water bottles just started freezing a few days ago, I am in Kentucky. So far I have just used small crocks and I refill them 3x a day with warm water. This is working well , though my rabbitry is small right now with just 12 holes.


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## Terry W (Mar 10, 2006)

I have been keeping two five gallon buckets of water by the wood stove, and carrying them out twice a day. My buns drink when I arrive with the goods.... top everything off before I leave the area, refill the buckets, and haul them back to the stove.


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## jhuebner (Mar 29, 2009)

We use electric heated 1 gal water bowls for our Flemish Giants outside. Even in -20 Iowa they stay open...

Inside we have a wood pellet stove. We have it at ~40 all the winter... on worst days it takes 1 bag. Compared to frozen water bottles or cutting wood (and the broken arm that followed) ... it works wonderfully! 

that's our world, yours may be different... good luck! 

JLH


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## sacredbough (Nov 30, 2009)

i am having this problem too now in downeast maine. waterers are freezing only an hour or 2 after i bring them outside from being in the house!

my rabbits have only ever had the bottle system w/ the little ball at the end of the spout that they lick (sorry i don't know the terminology here). dumb question....if i switch to crocks (which i assume are just small ceramic bowls?? pls clue me in if i'm wrong) will they know to drink from those instead? 

i really hate the idea of them going w/o water but i'm not sure what else to do... i had read putting socks over the bottles can help and i'm sure it does but i know we're colder than that. how terrible would it be if i took their waterers away at night when they will definitely freeze, and just monitor during the day?

also i had read that warm/hot water actually freezes faster than cold.... bc the molecules are moving faster.... i'm no science whiz but thought i'd pass it along. maybe someone here knows for sure?

going back to crocks... do you weight them down, raise them, or otherwise secure them so the bunnies don't tip them over, or get in them or poop in them? 

thanks!
katie in maine


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## freedomfrom4 (Jul 27, 2009)

They will figure out how to drink.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

This is a cut-and-paste from another thread, so apologies to those who have heard it all before. I thought Sacredbough and other new members may benefit from it. I should mention that some people have had problems with their rabbits destroying these containers, but it has worked well for me. Giving the buns a branch with bark on it from a bunny-safe tree when you install the containers may help distract them. Apple, pear, hard maple, sycamore, poplar, elm and willow are all good. 

In summer, I like straight-sided heavy crocks for water, but last winter we switched to an inexpensive alternative. I bought a couple of packages of dollar store food containers, the cube-shaped ones that hold about 2 cups and are meant for use in the freezer. They cost 4/$1 at Dollarama. A larger size could be used if your rabbits are "big drinkers".

I take one container and punch two pairs of holes just down from the rim. I push a piece of sturdy wire through each pair from the inside and wire this container to the cage. It must sit reasonably level on the floor of the cage. This is the holder and keeps the water container in place. A second container is filled with water and placed in the holder. They nest nicely. When changing the water, even when frozen, it is a breeze to unmould the ice in the container in a bucket of warm water and refill it at the same time.

This system worked great for us. Patches, our late matriarch, was the only one that required any "disciplinary action". She hated changes and would fling things when she was displeased. A couple of plastic clips to anchor the container to the holder solved this problem and was only needed for a few days. We had no problem with rabbits chewing the containers and only one breakage, when my son tried to knock the ice out instead of unmoulding it. Most of the containers can be used again this winter.


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## Skykomish (May 28, 2008)

I heard about adding sugar to outdoor cats water because it takes longer to freeze and gives them a boost. Can this be done with rabbits?


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Skykomish said:


> I heard about adding sugar to outdoor cats water because it takes longer to freeze and gives them a boost. Can this be done with rabbits?


I don't think this is a particularly good idea for cats or rabbits on a regular basis. They don't need those empty carbs; their bodies are not meant to cope with them.


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## nic8407 (Aug 2, 2009)

I use a system similar to what Cathy said. But my rabbits are in wire cages. I have a gravity feed system from a 5 gal bucket, it's filled by a pipe through a float valve. Then at the bottom I have a small fountain type submersible pump that connects directly thru the exit port. From the bucket it feeds a 1/2" pvc pipe routed by all the cages externaly with watering nipples for each cage. the pipe then returns to the top of the bucket. When it's not cold the water gravity feeds right thru the pump (it doesn't have to be on) and provides water. When it's 35 deg or below the pump kicks on and starts recirculating the water. This works well until it gets really cold. Soon I will add a heater like Cathys that will also kick on with the pump and keep the water in the bucket and lines from freezing. Even if my supply lines to the bucket freeze (I'm working on that) the 5 gallons in the bucket will stay thawed for the supply line (which won't freeze because of the pump). If I can't keep the supply line from freezing then the worst I have to do is pour water into the bucket when it's low. I have 3 adults and whatever kits there might be, water should last me a few days at least, which is all I need here in central CA. Works well.


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

What I'm doing now is giving water bottles to the does with kits and the idiot rabbits that can't seem to stop flipping their dishes as soon as I give them one. :stars: I have two bottles for each of those, so I bring out thawed bottles and bring in the frozen ones to sit by the heat register. Everyone else has dishes that get filled twice a day. 

I go to the thrift store and stock up on likely plastic dishes. I have some with Corelle bowls, but the plastic are better, as they have a little flex to them and I can get any ice out more easily.

Someday, when I'm rich, I'd like to have an automatic system with heat tape - not this year!


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## o&itw (Dec 19, 2008)

That's my big objection to the plastic crocks that are being sold. The "old time" crocks were quite heavy. The rabbits could push them around the cage with some effort, but could not easily tip one. I have some "soup cups" that I sometimes use in an emergency. They are too light, but one can tie the handles to the wire. This year I invested in some aluminum crocks, I am not crazy about metal crocks, but they are heavy, and they won't bust in a hard freeze. They do start freezing a bit faster... but only 15 0r 20 minutes before the ceramic ones start skiming over.

My biggest concern over the automatic waters, is not the waterers themselves, but my tendancy to "over rely" on automatic things. I am concerned that if something went wrong with the system, I might not notice it for a couple of days. The other problem is that I don't want water dripping, and I have seen a lot of automatic waterers that do...I think that might be a lot more of a problem here with all the calcium we have in our well water.

Oh yeah, and the third part is, the time it takes to change water is probaly what limits me from getting more rabbits, Lord knows how many rabbits I would have without the constraint


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

> Someday, when I'm rich, I'd like to have an automatic system with heat tape - not this year!


Someday, when I'm rich, I'd like to have a nice heated and air conditioned rabbit barn with an indoor cage wash area and separate butcher room, adjoining greenhouse to grow year round food for them and rows and rows of cages with hundreds of bunnies..... (sigh) there I go dreamin' again .... gotta stop that :nono:!


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

Truckinguy said:


> Someday, when I'm rich, I'd like to have a nice heated and air conditioned rabbit barn with an indoor cage wash area and separate butcher room, adjoining greenhouse to grow year round food for them and rows and rows of cages with hundreds of bunnies..... (sigh) there I go dreamin' again .... gotta stop that :nono:!


Wow, you do dream big, don't you?


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## o&itw (Dec 19, 2008)

Truckinguy said:


> Someday, when I'm rich, I'd like to have a nice heated and air conditioned rabbit barn with an indoor cage wash area and separate butcher room, adjoining greenhouse to grow year round food for them and rows and rows of cages with hundreds of bunnies..... (sigh) there I go dreamin' again .... gotta stop that :nono:!



You forgot "stainless steel" cages


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

o&itw said:


> You forgot "stainless steel" cages


I've got a couple of those - used to work on a mink farm and there were some spare pieces lyin' around.  Yes, I had permission to take them!


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

> Wow, you do dream big, don't you?


Ha, might as well or what's the point? It would also include my own hockey arena so I could play any time I want to....

Back on subject, though, my garage is insulated pretty well and there can be as much as 18 degrees difference between inside and outside temperatures. I mostly have problems when it's really windy and the wind finds it's way in under the eaves. Otherwise, I think the water bottles only froze about a dozen times last winter. My solution this year is to have a second set of bottles and just swap them out at feeding time.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Wow, Truckinguy, you have a sweet set-up. Not having to go outside to tend the rabbits and not having to deal with frozen water every day in winter. 

I love your big dream. I dream along those lines too, but on a much smaller scale. I'd love to have the heated greenhouse and a proper area with running water and a stainless steel counter top, some cupboard space etc. Air conditioning I could do without because of our lake breezes but lots of double glazed well-fitting windows on east and west sides would be nice and a good exhaust fan. And not hundreds of rabbits... maybe just a few dozen. And I tell you, soon as I win the lottery, I'm gonna have it!


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## hillbillly (Jun 28, 2009)

rose2005 said:


> I bought heated rabbit waterers last year that worked just fine. The bottle on the side of the cage thing. You re-filled them from the top and the drinking spout did not freeze.
> 
> We dont have any rabbits right now, but I thought I would share that.
> 
> ...


we are using those too, great value.


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

I know this an old thread, but what the heck!  Before we moved, I had my rabbits set up in 4 x 10 pens in the barn. I got one of those big buckets for horse feed, or whatever. They hold 10-20 or so. I drilled holes in the bottom and top of the side and ran PVC pipe from the bottom, along all the pens and back in the top. A recirculating system. I put those little brass nipple valves in, one per pen and I covered the pipes in pipe insulation, that sort of stayed. In the bucket, I had a stock tank heater, one of the small ones that goes up 50 gal. I also had a small pump. The bucket stuff was plugged in to one of those thermo cubes so it only came on when the temp hit 40. Never had a problem with it, unless the power went out. The nipples would freeze, but the rabbits would always chew on them until they got them to work. The pipes never froze. The bucket worked fine as a gravity feed system when it was warm enough that the pump/heater wouldn't kick on. This would be easily adaptable to cage setups as well.


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## Devoville (Mar 23, 2009)

Up here we just drill a hole and start fishing.....:hysterical:


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