# Barn cats...how to deal with them?



## dbarjacres (Feb 2, 2004)

For the last few yrs we've only had 2 outside cats, the old hag spayed mama cat, and a neutered male that she beats the tar out of, so he isn't around the buildings much. We've become overrun with mice last summer. So, we got 3, 3 month old kittens late October. They poop EVERYWHERE. They have a litterbox, but they poop under the porch (the dogs have discovered that), they poop in the calf hutches that the goats can go in, they poop in the bedding the goats lay in. I can't even let the house dogs in the pasture anymore, as they look for it right aways. ick. 

My other concern is, can't animals get something from cats? 

These are really nice healthy kittens, but I'm disliking them more every day (and I love cats, have 2 in the house). I hate to rehome them and then think how much more the mouse population will grow.


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

You could make them a sandbox..regular size kid's sandbox.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Yes this needs to stop if you breed the goats.
I had several miscarriages and even a still birth the first year I bred my goats, then found stray cats using the hay as a litterbox. Probably gave them toxoplasmosis. They usually breed normal after they clear the toxo.


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## Crazy Farmgirl (Oct 21, 2012)

............one bullet at a time!!

Sorry you asked! I despise cats an everyone seems to get lead poisoning here! People drop off their unwanted one out here all the time.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Gosh I have 4-5 outdoor cats and never notice their poop anywhere! Maybe my dogs are scarfing it down before I even notice ...eee-gads


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## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

the cats we have are old and when they are gone, that's it. for mice, nothing beats a rat terrier dog, or patterdale or some other vermin hunter. the cats here love to spray (they're all fixed too!) allll over my feed sacks, so how fun that is, grab a bag of feed and your hands reek all day long. 

can't think of a single way to keep them from doing what's a natural thing, tho.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

It's strange that there is so much poop. I've got 9 cats out here and almost never see any. Are they not burying it? I'll second the sandbox suggestion.
Where do your older cats go? 
As far as the dogs - it's what dogs do, if it wasn't cat poo, it's horse, cow, goat, sheep, chicken, etc. It's just in a dog's nature. They don't seem to go for it as much when fed raw.

Toxoplasmosis is everywhere in the soil. I'm sure it's nice to point a finger at something when you have losses, but the ever-so-slightly increased risk of ever-present toxoplasmosis there might be to barn animals from having cats around is nothing at all compared to the far more real dangers of rodent borne diseases. In fact, the reason cats so often carry toxoplasmosis is they catch it from ... rodents. Seriously, look it up.

CrazyFarmGirl, really? You're sorry she asked? We're all sorry you answered. So not liking cats gives you the right to be nasty to anyone who dares ask a cat question? Your response was unnecessary and uncalled for.


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## wintrrwolf (Sep 29, 2009)

Well since they have the freedom to roam where ever they have learned that they can "go" where ever. Since they are kittens even at 3, 4, 5 months of age keep them contained in an area that will have their food and the litterbox, when they are out playing watch them like you would any baby when you catch them pee'ing or poo'ing where you don't want, spray them (water bottle, spray gun, ect...) 
I wish I had done something similar with my 5 month old kitty when we first moved here unfortunately a coyote found her to be a nice little snack.
I have a 15 yr old spayed female cat that specializes in killing snakes and sparrows, and my 2 yr old male cat has never sprayed anything inappropriately, here my DM doesn't allow the cats in the house...guess where all the freaking mice are....


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## dozedotz (Dec 12, 2012)

Funny, Wintrrwolf!! That is where the freaking mice are is absolutely correct! Give me the cats over the rodents any old time. Our cats are fantastic mouse hunters and keep the grain room and the hay barn in great shape. However, we have had some cats in the past that could not seem to learn where was the appropriate place for toileting (or whatever is the scientific name for it). They were eliminated by us. Sorry. My barn, my rules.


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## prairiedog (Jan 18, 2007)

We really like our rat snake for mice control


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

nevermind


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## dbarjacres (Feb 2, 2004)

Wow what a range of answers...shoot them to I'm stupid to get them and apparently irresponsible. We got males so we can neuter them. We've done our other male cats ourselves. Let me guess you'll call yhe authorities for that? Outside cats breed like rats. We had 3 very nice neutered boys and 2 of them disappeared in 2010. Which was odd as one never left the barn.

We have never had the pooping all over before. I'm sorry but working and having animals to take care of I certainly don't have time to follow 3 outside cats around with a spray bottle. 

I really want to keep them. DH and I play with them daily and they all know their names.

I don't mind the dogs eating goat poop but cat poo is just nasty. 

So the toxo is just if they potty in feed? That problem I don't have.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Honestly, this often happens in the winter. It's too cold for the poor kittehs to go outside and get their paws wet in the snow if they don't have to.

Either supply ample litterboxes, or feed them outside - preferably far away from where you don't want them pooing/peeing so they HAVE to go outside anyways. Then, they should be less likely to just veg around in the non-snowy areas and poo/pee there. They also just plain can't dig in the wintertime, so if they can find anything not frozen, that's where they'll choose to potty. Once one starts using a spot, it smells like a toilet so they all will.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Dbarjacres, sometimes you just have to ignore folks who aren't trying to help. Don't let it get to you.

Livestock are far, far more likely to get toxo from the soil, or from rodent or sparrow droppings, then from cats. That's where cats get it from themselves.

Where are the older cats going? Is there any bullying of the kittens from the older cats? Is it buried?
If it is not buried, then it may well be the older cats marking territory to put these young upstarts in their place. If the kittens are not going where the older cats are going, there is a reason. Are the kittens learning from the older cats, or hiding from them?
Why is there so much poop? 3 kittens can only go so much. Are we sure it's them? Could they have digestive troubles (not burying could also be a sign of this) ?
These answers may help solve your problem.
Mygoats also has a point. Either way, creating a spot for them to go will help.

As far as the dogs- yes. Dogs are nasty. You can't blame the animal that poops for the fact that dogs eat it. And I promise you they'll hunt it out and dig it up. Don't get me wrong, I love dogs, have a bunch - but when one finds a particularly fresh horse pile to roll in, or a nice dead squirrel or something, I don't get mad at the horse or the squirrel. It's what dogs do, and why Leave It is my most favoriteist command ever.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Toxoplasmosis from cat feces is a real threat to pregnant goats. Yes rodents and birds spread it as well but cats are an ideal host and they can spread many more oocysts then other critters do.
The cats pooping where goats bed down or on hay is a very good way to lose pregnancies, wethers you like cats or not.


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## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

It might be better to rehome these cats and try again in the spring. Over the years, I have encountered a few cats who didn't graduate kittengarten with the required "burying poop" credits. Maybe some mama cats aren't so great in the home schooling department. Make sure to get kittens that already know how to bury!

I cannot have barn cats anymore as our new LGDs kill cats. I bought a half dozen of those no-touch snap traps in November and in about two weeks had wiped out the mouse population in the garage and the barn. Not sure I want barn cats anymore! They usually end up moving into the house in their old age anyway. My last barn cat is currently asleep on my bed. He'll be 17 in a couple months.

Anita from Idaho
Dan-Ani Pygmy Goats
www.gndt.net/dan-ani


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Lasergrl, cats are a common vector for toxo in _humans_. 

Humans are rather unlikely to take dust baths and then groom ourselves with our mouths, sleep on the ground, eat off the dirt, drink water that sparrows pooped in and eat hay and grain that rodents have been on. Or accidentally ingest bird and rodent droppings in any way.
We _are_ however, likely to clean a kitty litter box, making cats and gardening likely exposures for humans

To keep toxo from our livestock, first worry about all the little critters infesting the barn that the cats are catching it from (mice and sparrows who are pooping in your feed) and then know that it's quite likely that your livestock were exposed anyway, as it is only the most common parasite on earth, and present in the soil pretty much everywhere.

Cat fan or not, toxo isn't exactly news, just the past couple of generations as people are more removed from the soil, folks were more likely to not be exposed to it until late in life. Cats in barns are not a new development.


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

dbarjacres, just a thought here..so much poop and so few cats..are you sure that the poop belongs to them? Could it be **** scat instead?


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## dbarjacres (Feb 2, 2004)

No ***** around here, one skunk that's hibernating under the hay barn (darn thing refuses to go into the live trap).

I will add an extra litter box, maybe that will help. They bury their poo in the shavings, the ground outside is frozen (duh, I didn't think of that). I'll try adding another larger litter box.


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

I wouldn't let anybody pregnant drink any raw milk till those cats are older.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+2134&aid=770


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Toxoplasmosis is a concern, no matter what species. Though as stated, cats in barns is not new. Heck, I qualify for most of the risk factors and probably have T. gondii.  



> Recent epidemiologic studies have identified the following risk factors for T. gondii infection: owning cats (5); being in proximity to seropositive cats in farming areas (6); cleaning the cat litter box (7); eating raw or undercooked pork, mutton, lamb, beef, or mincemeat products (5â8); gardening (6); having contact with soil (8); eating raw or unwashed vegetables or fruits (5); eating raw vegetables outside the home (5); washing kitchen knives infrequently (7); having poor hand hygiene (5); and traveling outside of Europe, the United States, and Canada (8). However, owning a cat was not shown to be a risk factor for T. gondii infection in two studies of pregnant women (8, 9) or in a study of persons infected with human immunodeficiency virus (10). Protective factors include adhering to a meat-free diet (11), living at a high altitude or in an arid climate (12, 13), and living in a climate with frequent freezing and thawing (14). Outbreaks of toxoplasmosis have been attributed to ingestion of raw or undercooked ground beef, lamb, pork, or venison (15â20); _*consumption of unpasteurized goat's milk *_(21); and exposure to contaminated water (22, 23), soil (24), or aerosolized soil (25).


from: http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/154/4/357.full

I probably have T. gondii... considering I qualify for MOST of those risk factors, haha. 

Toxoplasmosis matures and is excreted in an infectious form from felines as a primary host, though it can be transmitted by eating infected meat and milk. 

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/9/11/03-0098_article.htm

MOST animals will not have serious issues, just like MOST people don't have serious issues. I would bet many goats are already infected. Many people already are too. The risk to the fetus is when a person aquires infection during pregnancy. In some populations HUGE numbers of people are infected. And, studies shows it may affect behavior of infected animals and humans. Fascinating infection. 

http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketsc...brain-parasite-that-influences-human-culture/


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

dbarjacres said:


> the ground outside is frozen (duh, I didn't think of that)


That will absolutely do it. Our barn cats poop in the barn only when the ground is frozen or covered in snow. Then - watch out - anywhere with loose material is fair game. Not their first choice, but better than trying to bury poop in snow. There's a big plastic tray you can get at the big-box home improvement stores like Lowes and Home Depot that is sold for mixing mortar. Makes an ideal large litter box for the frozen season. I fill it with compost, dirt, forest floor, etc. Anything dry and loose without too many large chunks. Might make for a two-person chore when the time comes to empty it. I wait till the weekend when DH is home and we carry it out into the woods and dump it.


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## Crazy Farmgirl (Oct 21, 2012)

Otter said:


> CrazyFarmGirl, really? You're sorry she asked? We're all sorry you answered. So not liking cats gives you the right to be nasty to anyone who dares ask a cat question? Your response was unnecessary and uncalled for.


Really?? So only opinions that are agreed with by all are allowed? I was not nasty to anyone, the question was asked "how to deal with them" I gave my opinion, based on my own experience and research that is how I deal with them?? I did offer an apology knowing that it is not a commonly accepted practice, I just missed some punctuation so obviously it was misconstrued.

I have on SEVERAL occasions had financial loss due to feral cats (which most "barn cats" are) including severe allergic reaction, toxoplasmosis, lepto, bovine TB and large quantities of feed lost due to being used as a cats litter box!! Due some research cats can and DO spread diseases and worms and are vermin! I'm sorry that is not a "politically correct" answer but it most certainly is a true statement. Unless all the cats that have access to your farm are routinely vaccinated and wormed and kept out of livestock areas and feed then they most certainly are a biosecurity hazard and a real threat to yourself, your family and your animals health. If you don't agree that is your prerogative just as it is mine to choose to eliminate this threat in an attempt to keep my farm and family healthy! I am also well within my legal rights to do so, even encouraged by the state inspectors and vet who routinely come here ensure that I am doing all I can to keep my farm verified by them as "TB Free"


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## akane (Jul 19, 2011)

Cats are considered a bigger pest than rodents around here. Farmers train their dogs to kill them or shoot them. Better to use mouse traps and if you absolutely have to poison than add cats who are just trouble and bring in diseases.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

CrazyFarmGirl, it's hardly an unpopular opinion around here. You are sure to find plenty of others who "despise" cats with you and are all too glad to murder some poor domestic creature who had no choice about being dumped on your road.

If you apologized in your first post - it's because you knew you were wrong. That's why people apologize (notice that I am not) 
If you bothered to read more then the title, then you knew the OP was looking for solutions to a behavioral problem and you "advice" was unwarranted. 
And if you didn't read more then the title, and thought you'd just jump in with a lead poisoning joke - then you were looking for validation. People generally look for validation when they're feeling guilt or uncertainty.

Trying to justify yourself with strawman arguments after the fact doesn't help your case any.
As a matter of fact, like many of the folks here, my barn cats ARE wormed and vaccinated, as are my dogs (a deadly predator, as attested to by many, many threads here - I don't just wantonly kill those either)
I have never, nor has google search found for me, any massive disease outbreak traced back to cats. Many to rodents, and even sparrows, but not cats. I'm sure it feels good to point the finger at something that isn't you and your management after a bovine TB outbreak, but the numbers don't really back that up. I'm also wondering just how you definitively traced toxo and leptospirosis back to cats as well.
http://www.cdc.gov/leptospirosis/


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## Crazy Farmgirl (Oct 21, 2012)

Otter said:


> CrazyFarmGirl, it's hardly an unpopular opinion around here. You are sure to find plenty of others who "despise" cats with you and are all too glad to murder some poor domestic creature who had no choice about being dumped on your road.
> 
> If you apologized in your first post - it's because you knew you were wrong. That's why people apologize (notice that I am not)
> If you bothered to read more then the title, then you knew the OP was looking for solutions to a behavioral problem and you "advice" was unwarranted.
> ...


Well obviously we have VERY different ideas about this and we will just have to agree to disagree!

Lepto is a bacterial infection that can be tested for and that is what was done and how the vet came to that conclusion. 

I did not have a TB outbreak, never said I did, I happen to live in a portion of MI that has had confirmed TB positive cattle and deer herds (which was traced back to deer that were imported from MN) therefore we are heavily tested, inspected and regulated by the state. Please don't assume what you don't know! 

I'm not sorry for my opinion and certainly don't think I am wrong, I am however sorry that more people don't understand or like the thought of it. I did read the original post there was no mention of "behavior modification advice" again your assumptions are wrong. 

Again you can decide to handle them how ever you choose as can I and I would appreciate that you not make erroneous assumption about myself or other people and how we manage OUR farms. If you do properly care for your cats and keep them to your farm that is great and that's your choice, it is NOT the norm here and therefore we have to take steps to protect ourselves.

Again we just don't agree, that's fine. Your assumptions and lack of facts in your attack of MY decisions and practices are what is uncalled for!


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

It is okay to dislike cats. It is also okay to dislike dogs, parrots, horses, cows, and goats.

But if you dislike horses, you don't go on a thread where someone is asking for advice to correct behavioral problems in horses and tell people that on your place, all horses are good for is stew.

And if someone is asking for tips on how to correct behavioral problems in their dogs, you don't tell them that a sharp knife or a fast bullet will do the trick, no matter HOW many problems with their neighbor's dogs that you have had.

And Otter is correct in this....there have been no known disease outbreaks in which cats were the host or the carrier that have effected anything except other cats. Cats actually make pretty poor hosts of both virus and bacteria that are transmittable to other species. 

Anyone who wishes to say otherwise, I invite to share a link of any disease outbreak in livestock or humans that the main vector or source was found to be cats. Please cite a source. Notice I said "disease outbreak", meaning more than one animal had to have been infected. 

~smiles~ And yes, I have looked for studies and scientific articles that observed a single disease outbreak cause by cats that was spread to anything but other cats. If I can't find one, I seriously doubt anyone else is going to have an easy search either.

Cat haters, this is a race! First one to find me a scientific study or scientific article showing the observation of a disease outbreak that effects animals or humans OTHER than cats, but is, nonetheless, hosted or sourced from cats, wins!

On your mark, get set, GO!

Good luck!


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## lordoftheweeds (Dec 27, 2012)

CaliannG said:


> First one to find me a scientific study or scientific article showing the observation of a disease outbreak that effects animals or humans OTHER than cats, but is, nonetheless, hosted or sourced from cats, wins!
> 
> On your mark, get set, GO!
> 
> Good luck!


I have it on good authority that cats are deadly to mice, rats and slow moving birds and rabbits.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

http://www.messybeast.com/zoonoses.htm

I actually breed cats, and have 8 right now. That doesnt mean I enjoy stray cats running around, or any cats defacating in animal feed or where other animals are likely to ingest something.

Stray cats are not welcome here. I dont need felv/fiv/parasite infected feral critters messing around here.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Although I agree that stray cats can be a problem, and no one wants their pets infected FeLV, I have to say that the link you provided does not show any disease outbreaks, or even possible disease outbreaks, in which the original, or even main, host, is cats.

Ringworm: Not *even* specific to cats. I have had two cases in my life: One I got from my dog and once from the gym. Cats actually have to pick up the fungus from their environment, which could be anything. 

Conjunctivitis: Caused by many things in many different animals.

Pasteurella: Is everywhere, including places that no cat has ever tread before.

Salmonella: Same as Pasteurella.

Bartonella: Carried by fleas. In fact, a flea could bite a rat that lives in your walls, then bit you and infect you with the disease... while your cat remains perfectly un-touched.

Helicobacter pylori: Recent research (late 1990's, with more studies having upheld the conclusions) has found that this is not a bacterium that originated in cats and was passed to humans. Instead, it originated in humans, with the human as the host, about 60,000 years ago, and only recently became zoonotic, and WE passed it to the *cats*. NOT the other way around.

Toxoplasmosis: Your article (which, by the way, is NOT a scientific study OR a published, scientific article, so it does NOT meet the criteria in this race) says is clearing in the first sentence on the subject: "Cats acquire Toxoplasma infection by _ingesting infected prey_." This disease does not originate with cats and cats are not even the main host. They are simply one of the MANY species that can catch or spread this disease.

Your article even said that "...less than 1% of infected cats actually shed oocysts." It seems that humans are more to blame for the spread of this disease than cats!

Tuberculosis: According to JOURNAL OF CLINICAL MICROBIOLOGY, Apr. 1996, p. 933&#8211;938, Assessment of Genetic Markers for Species Differentiation within
the Mycobacterium tuberculosis Complex :

"_M. tuberculosis_ causes tuberculosis in humans, but infection has also been recorded in pet dogs and cats (1, 37) and other animals in contact with
infected humans."

In other words, we give the disease to them, they do not give it to us.

Furthermore, in the same, published study:

"_M. microti_, the vole or dassie bacillus, causes tuberculosis in small rodents (11, 36, 43), and although it has been reported to cause infection in a cat and pigs (24) and in a llama (31), it is not considered to be an human pathogen."

The form that cats can catch from THEIR environment is not a form that is considered to be zoonotic. It isn't even a form that one's goats or cows can catch!

And actually, I dare you to find a case of a cat with TB in this country in the last 50 years.  

Rotaviruses: Not considered infections to humans from cats.

Rabies: Oh yes! Cats can give you rabies! So can every other mammal on the planet and some reptiles!

Feline Leukaemia: They have tried to find a cat-human link with FeLV and any number of human ailments and cancers since the 1960's. In 50 years of studies upon studies trying to find a link, NONE has been found. Not one. Feline Leukaemia does not pass in any way, shape, form or fashion to humans in any sort of normal cat-to-human relationship. (They HAVE managed it in a lab, by injecting the FeLV matter into other species cells, in petri dish, in carefully controlled conditions in the perfect environment...and found that that is the ONLY way to make it happen.)

So that one is out of the running as well.

FIV: Again, no cases of it ever being transmitted to humans, and only one case of it being transmitted to a primate (monkeys) in lab conditions where they injected the stuff.

Chlamydia psittaci: Cats and humans get it from birds. Stay away from birds.

Cowpox: Really? They list cowpox? The same virus that they used to vaccinate us with to prevent smallpox? Do they not realize that there is a reason it is called COWpox?

Coronaviruses: Cats are not a vector for human transmissions of Coronaviruses. Civets, which are NOT felines, *are*.

H5N1: Cats can catch it from eating infected birds. As can dogs, raccoons, or really anything that eats an infected bird. Cats aren't special in that, and they are no more a vector in transmission than any other carnivore or omnivore.

Spongiform Encephalitis: Cats can get it from eating infected beef. The only way they can transfer it to humans though, is if you eat an infected cat. Keep kitty tamales off the menu!

Anything else? Is that the best ya got?


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Why does it matter to you that cats have to be the main source? Why have a source at all if you can help it? Why does it have to be an outbreak? Once is enough.
Rodents can be controlled by many other means then cats.

Felines are the main host. Other animals are intermediate hosts. It is shed in feline stool. That is how oocysts are released. The toxo is asexual in other species.
http://www.stanford.edu/class/humbio103/ParaSites2006/Toxoplasmosis/lifecycle.html


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Because not one of the things that humans can get on that list that *can* be transmitted by cats is something that can't ALSO be transmitted by dogs. And birds.

How much ammo are you willing to go through?

It matters that cats be the MAIN source because that's the only way to make it reasonable to eliminate them. Otherwise, it is like being diabetic and saying, "I need to eliminate sugars from my diet, so I am going to eliminate dairy products, because they contain lactose. But I am not going to even think about getting rid of that pantry full of Little Debbie Snack Cakes!"

Unless something is the MAIN source of the problem, it is a waste of time, effort, and resources to eliminate it that COULD be spent eliminating, oh, the ACTUAL main source of the problem?

Now, once you have gotten rid of the MAIN vectors...sure, start concentrating on the secondary vectors with their 1%-3% chance of infecting you. But before you worry about those, concentrate on the stuff that has the 40%-50% chance of infecting you.

Unless, of course, you get some sort of kick out of harming and killing certain kinds of animals. If so, please keep yourself far away from me!


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Correct me then about the toxo life cycle. Rodents and birds do not pass infective oocysts in their feces like cats do. The cats are infected from ingesting the bird or rat, not its feces in the environment. The cat is the species that passes the infective form in large numbers.
I never said to shoot or harm a cat btw. I have trapped and taken to humane society though.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

That is very true. But the problem again comes in eradication of this ONE problem that is generally not very noteworthy.

The definitive host IS felines. ALL felines. From Fluffy who is sitting in your lap, to the neighborhood bobcat, to the Lions in the zoo and the cougars that are slowly coming back into their native ranges. Ocelots down here can incubate it.

_Every single feline in the world from the tiny, miniature Margay cat to the largest tiger is a host for it._

But, here is the trick: They ONLY pass the oocysts when they are FIRST infected. So even a cat that HAS it is only passing the oocyst for that first week of infection, and then their immune system takes care of it.

So saying that the cat is passing the infectious form is "large numbers" is misleading. Only recently infected cats are passing it *at all*. 

If Fluffy got infected last month, she isn't passing oocysts...and what is more, she won't. No matter how many times she misses the litter box.

Guess what else spreads the oocysts, sometimes from up to 2 miles away?

Flies.

Yes, that is correct, flies can and do pick up oocysts from a cat pile in a garden a mile away from you, and can drop it right on your sandwich, in your horse's feed bucket, in your goat's water, or any number of places. It might not even have been oocysts deposited by a domestic cat....a bobcat could have pooped in the forest and the flies found it.

In fact, that is the HUGE vector in how it infects sheep, pigs, and cows....all animals that, prior to commercial slaughter, are kept in a commercial feed lot which often have tons and tons of..........

Flies.

Flies which land on poo, fly long distances carried by the wind, and crawl all over your animals and their feed.

So go ahead and make sure no strange cats EVER come on your property......but I would advice that you don't consider yourself or your animals safe from toxoplasmosis by doing so.

Me, I am not going to worry about it.

Although there IS one feral cat that comes on this property that I would LOVE to get in my rifle sites. I call him "Lucky" because he is lucky that I haven't gotten a clear shot at him. He's smart enough to avoid the live traps....but he beats the heck out of MY cats and I get tired of treating the resultant scratches, scrapes, and nicked ears. Even on my spayed queens.

That, however, is a individual situation. I dislike th idea of shooting most critters, unless they are a direct threat to my livestock. He's just managed to make himself special in this case.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Well I am going to do my due diligence to not allow cats to poop in my animals feed. If that makes me paranoid then so be it. I guess I just don't think poop on the hay is a good thing. Toxo or not. That's what this post is about. Not eradicating toxo as we know it. Not really sure how it became a game of defending the cat poop as an OK thing being all over.
Guess I'm crazy. I think carnivore poop is gross  I play with it all day at work.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Lasergrl, no one is saying to encourage or even allow cats to poop in the feed. And I didn't even see it mentioned in the OP, just that they are going in the bedding.
What we_ are_ saying is that even if they were, then _kill them, kill them now_, is hardly an appropriate response.

We're also saying that as far as spreaders of disease go, cats are pretty low man on the totem pole, and prevent far more problems then they cause, (any history buffs remember the black plague? anyone?) as they have an incredibly small likelihood of passing on any disease at all, except as you pointed out, to other cats.



Crazy Farmgirl said:


> I have on SEVERAL occasions had financial loss due to feral cats (which most "barn cats" are) including severe allergic reaction, toxoplasmosis, lepto, bovine TB





Crazy Farmgirl said:


> I did not have a TB outbreak, never said I did,
> Please don't assume what you don't know!


I didn't assume anything. You said you've experienced loss from TB due to cats.
If you've never had TB in your herd, then I'm not sure just how you've had financial loss due to it.
If you'd like to explain how both the above statements are true, I'd be interested to hear it.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

But cats are the main host and spreader of toxo. Due to the lifecycle cats are the only animals that actually spread it in the environment through the feces. That is the point of I'm trying to get across. The other sources such as rats and birds the muscle tissue must be ingested to squire disease. So to me that would mean cats are by far the largest and most meaningfull vector for this disease.
I don't think its fair to deny that in defense on the cat.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

And cats don't get or spread lepto and if they do its incredibly rare.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

its an open forum. anyone can post their opinions and methods. even if its not agreed with.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

I have only shot one cat on my farm. It was a GIANT feral thing. Weighed about 30 lbs. It was sculking around my young meat chick's pen. Dog's went to investigate and the thing ATTACKED my pit bull, ripping off the end of her ear. It was clearly sick, and I was scared it had rabies, so I shot it on the spot. Would I shoot miscreant poopers? Probably not. I'm not a huge fan of cats, but I have considered getting some because the mice problem in my barn is more than my jack russell mutt can cover. Seeing all this info about cat poo is actually quite comforting. I refused to get cats up until now BECAUSE of the whole "cat poo kills your animals" threat.

Of course, if I did get cats, they probably WOULD kill my chickens. Everything is after MY chickens. They must be mighty tasty. 

Jenn,

Keep the cats. Make a mondo litter box as suggested and see if it works. 


Since we're on the subject of interanimal diseases..... can chickens pooing on hay, fed to goats/cows be harmful?


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

Hey Hannah..I've got some barn cats that need a new home. I simply have too many.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Where are you in Iowa? I'm in the SE corner. I COULD get some from my neighbor, but they don't spay/neuter/vaccinate. Their cats are like little walking in bred biological weapons. Wayyyy back in the day, I adopted one. Her mom ran away from the litter. That cat was evil. Demented. I blame it on the in breeding :gaptooth:


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

Between Muscatine and Burlington.

Ours are not vaccinated. They are all fat and sassy..think the goat milk can be praised for that!


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Oh hey neighbor! I'll have to think on it. That's another vet bill for fixing kitties. If you still have them in spring let me know. I can't afford another heated water fixture right now.


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

I own 4 cats and truly love them. But I don't have any barn cats.

Although I'm probably already exposed to toxo since I had a cat about 20 years ago that went blind due to it, I still would not drink raw milk from anybody who had a bunch of young barn cats running around their barn.

Also had a friend who when he was living in another country went blind in one eye due to toxo.

Normally it's not a big deal but anybody who is milking should seriously be conscious of it.

I recently bought some hay from people with a bunch of young barn cats. Not only did I wash my hands and clothes and boots when I got home from getting the hay, I also took the top layer of hay the cats had been running around on off, and only took the layers that had other hay over them.:rock:


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

:shrug: I have found dried bobcat poop in the center of a round-bale before. Had it tested at the TAMU lab because I wanted to see if it had contaminated the hay before feeding it. (This was in the middle of the drought; that bale of hay cost me $170! I wasn't about to toss it unless there was GOOD reason to do so!)

Made me wonder how much bobcat, or even domestic cat, poop had been flung through the mower to be distributed throughout bales of hay I had bought through the years. That made me realize that toxoplasmosis oocysts are kind of like so many other things that can cause problems, they can be distributed in hay without your knowledge, flies can carry them about for miles just to deposit them on a single pellet of feed they land on, _the dang things are inescapable._

So I made a firm decision not to worry about a problem that I can't do anything to prevent short of sealing myself and my animals into an airtight biodome. If the problem arises, I will treat it and deal with it...but I can't keep the flies from visiting my neighbor's yards, or the wooded areas where the bobcats are.


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## Hexe (Mar 8, 2007)

Dealing with barn cats: Instead of getting kittens that still need to be trained to use a litterbox and spayed to keep from reproducing, I went to the Humane Society and asked if they had cats they'd like to donate for barn duty. Found out they actually have a program for "Barn Buddies". These are grown, spayed/neutered and vaccinated cats that for various reasons aren't making it as pets. They may be just way to shy and run and hide all the time, they may have too much prey drive, etc. They GAVE me two of them. I crated them in the barn for about a week and then turned them loose. One of them wandered off six weeks later, but the other cat stayed and has done a great job. I feed her twice a day just to keep an eye on her. She was in the shelter since she was a kitten, for THREE years, since she runs when she sees humans. Uses a litterbox and keeps ALL rodents out of there. Every once in a while I see her outside, sunning. Perfect for my barn.

P.S. You know the cat is doing a good job when I spilled some grain back in October and now in January it's still there...


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

Yeah I'd be much less nervous introducing an adult cat than a kitten since newly infected ones are the ones that shed the cysts most often.


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