# fyi



## Dahc (Feb 14, 2006)

I have not read anything on this section of the forum so I don't know what kind of info is out there. I was privey to a private conversation about diabetes and weightloss and thought I would cut and paste it here. I hope it helps someone. Most of this stuff is known, it's just not all in one place.




> Name deleted said:
> 
> 
> > if you would be willing to share it I would like more info on the diet you refferred to in the thread that Ken has going on shtf for him and his right now , I am trying to lose weight and fighting for every pound i drop to drop and stay off last time i was on a scale i was 285 lbs. so would love to be able to break under the 200 lb mark thanks in advance for any answer.
> ...


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Thank you, dahc, for some sound, basic info that I think can benefit a lot of us who struggle with our weight. I just had my thyroid checked...it's fine, unfortunately, lol. I'd have loved to be able to pop a daily Synthroid and have my weight go back to where it was when I was 20! Okay, I'd really rather be healthy and not need a med, but when you are really struggling to lose every pound a quick fix sounds pretty good.

So, 5-6 small meals a day, heavy on the fiberous vegies, balanced with adequate protein in the form of lean meat or nuts/legumes/seeds, no processed foods or refined grains. I think I'd add in 3 servings of low fat dairy products a day, especially for women. A good multivitamin with minerals wouldn't hurt, especially if you are following a moderate or low calorie diet, just to make sure you are not missing something.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Out of curiousity I went to half.com and amazon.com and did a keywords search on diabetes diet. Half.com had 308 hits. Amazon 937. Many are cookbooks though rather than on controlling diabetes through diet, per se.

Three of four BILs have/had (one has died) diabetes. One who died was overweight and had a very questionable diet as he could go through a loaf of white bread and jar of mayo quickly. One is overweight I suspect a lot due to both he and my sister working and eating out a lot. I hope after they retire next summer he can work on weight. One isn't particularly overweight, but does seem to have a high sugar (soda) diet.

I have had several people tell me sodas are OK today since it says corn syrup or fuitose rather than sugar. I refer to it as drinking poison a little bit at a time.

There seems to be a continuing debate whether being overweight encourages diabetes or the other way around.


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## Dahc (Feb 14, 2006)

Ken Scharabok said:


> Out of curiousity I went to half.com and amazon.com and did a keywords search on diabetes diet. Half.com had 308 hits. Amazon 937. Many are cookbooks though rather than on controlling diabetes through diet, per se.
> 
> Three of four BILs have/had (one has died) diabetes. One who died was overweight and had a very questionable diet as he could go through a loaf of white bread and jar of mayo quickly. One is overweight I suspect a lot due to both he and my sister working and eating out a lot. I hope after they retire next summer he can work on weight. One isn't particularly overweight, but does seem to have a high sugar (soda) diet.
> 
> ...


Sodas are not ok. They are nothing but sugar water. Don't listen to those people... even if they have some kind of degree. A person like that could kill a diabetic real quick.

I think they are both inter-related (overweight and diabetes). The info I posted on what insulin is and does says it all. A peron who is overweight runs the risk of becoming diabetic because they don't cycle fat on and off. It's the same fat cells that get loaded with sugars over and over. Eventually, they will become insulin resistant and be diagnosed with diabetes because the fat cells wont respond to insulin anymore. The diabetic has the exact opposite problem but can have that problem too. The fat cells become full and the insulin cannot do what it's supposed to. Therefore the excess insulin and sugars within the body cause the body to start producing fat cells because that's where the sugar is stored. It is the bodies natural way of dealing with sugars. 

Insulin directs the sugars to the fat cells and causes them to open up and take the sugar. When there are no fat cells left to put the sugar in, you have to make more or the body will be damaged by the excess sugar. This is where neuropathy and a lot of other painful complications come from. Sugar damage.

I think they are directly related but neither is a prerequisite for the other. At the same time, having either problem go unchecked, the other is likely to happen. A person can be overweight and never get diabetes and a person can have diabetes but never be overweight but neither of these is the main stream. Most diabetics are overweight and most overweight people become diabetics to whatever extent. I think for me, the bottom line here is that excess sugars are squarly to blame for both problems and the sugars aren't just sugar, they are carbs that breakdown quickly like the white rice, potatoes and processed grains.

Manygoatsnmore:
We didn't switch to low-fat dairy. We still use vit D milk and eat yogurt that's not made from skim milk or anything like that. For someone who is only fighting a weight problem that may be a good idea but I would limit dairy anyway so it may not be necessary to go skim. What's really, really important here is that you speed up your metabolism with the several smaller meals while getting the nutrition you need. If you get the nutrition you need, your body will not be hungry after you eat. My wife use to eat 2 and 3 big plates of food and she would really scarf them down. It was stuff like pasta and white rice that would fill her up but not give her the nutrients she needed. Then she would eat to much of either and she would gain more weight. A viscous circle. You eat but you're hungry so you eat more and get fat, continue eating the same stuff and it happens all over again, over and over. I have before and after pics of my wife but I should probably speak to her before I post any of the "before's". lol. Now, she can eat that one apple and peanut butter I spoke of and be full for a couple of hours.

If anything, I would recommend goat's milk over cow's milk. Cow's milk takes almost 9 hours to digest and half of it is rotted by the time our bodies digest it. Goat's milk takes 30 minutes to digest and has more nutrients. I dare say that most diagnoses of lactose intollerance are not true. I believe, and I am no doctor, but I believe that that rotten milk is the cause of the flatulence and allergic reactions in most of those folks. Also, your stomach determines what you have eaten by itself and then releases it's own digestive mix to suit whatever it is that needs to be digested. Some stuff isn't meant to go together like milk and beef. The scriptures say not to eat milk and red meat together. If you do eat them together, your stomach produces a digestive mix for one or the other, not both. That means that one or the other is going to rot while the other gets digested. Yuck.

Don't forget the exercise. It enables your body to burn sugar and fat but since you don't give your body anything to replace it with, you lose weight. You don't have to kill yourself, just raise your heart rate for 30 minutes straight to burn calories and longer to burn sugars.


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

Dahc, would you mind posting some examples (with portion sizes) of the several small meals that she eats? And if the portion sizes where different at the very beginning? I have a problem with portion control. I eat WAY too much food each meal, and it seems like I am hungry not too long after. I am allergic to wheat so I don't eat pasta, but I do eat tortilla chips in place of bread. Also, did y'all have problems when you started eating all those veggies? I do. Just last night I had a cornmeal crust pizza with one whole yellow pepper, one med red onion, cheese, grount turkey and corn meal as the crust. Man did I pay for the peppers and onions that night. Or I love cabbage, but it does not love me! Any suggestions for easing into eating that way? Thanks in advance, and thank you for posting this information.
God bless you and yours
Deb


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2006)

Let me jump in here if nobody minds.

Simple summary of a diet that will let you lose weight:

ZERO sugar
ZERO sugar substitutes (except saccharine or stevia)
ZERO white rice
ZERO degerminated cornmeal
ZERO white flour
ZERO white potatoes
ZERO soft drinks or other sugary drinks
ZERO high-fructose corn syrup (more info below)
ZERO transfats.

Get LOTS of high fiber foods. That means whole grains and vegetables. Limit the fruit due to high sugar content. Raw nuts are good for snacking, as is plain popcorn.

You know you are getting enough fiber if you have 2 to 3 easy bowel movements daily. If your diet is low in fiber, go ahead and take benefiber or metamucil for a while to get the process rolling. This will cleanse your system and allow your body to start assimilating nutrients. Live culture yogurt also helps a lot.

Now, about high-fructose corn syrup. Read labels and don't consume anything at all that has this ingredient. You will be shocked to find it in everything from pickles to bread. Even 100% whole wheat bread has it!

Research strongly suggests high-fructose corn syrup is a very major factor contributing to obesity, heart disease, and diabetes. There is an epidemic of type 2 diabetes among children as young as 4 yo in this country.

High-fructose corn syrup is NOT the same stuff labelled corn syrup at the grocery store.

Read how it's made:
http://www.westonaprice.org/motherlinda/cornsyrup.html

Read these to see why it's bad for you:
http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfood/highfructose.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A8003-2003Mar10?language=printer
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2004/02/18/FDGS24VKMH1.DTL


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

ladycat said:


> You know you are getting enough fiber if you have 2 to 3 easy bowel movements daily.


Wow...it's nice to hear someone else say this for a change. When I tell folks that, they look at me like I have three heads. Our friend's doctor told him it was perfectly normal to go once or twice a WEEK. I say it might be normal in America, but it's certainly not healthy!

This is a great thread with lots of very useful info...I hope many folks read it, not just the ones trying to lose weight.


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## Dahc (Feb 14, 2006)

Hears The Water said:


> Dahc, would you mind posting some examples (with portion sizes) of the several small meals that she eats? And if the portion sizes where different at the very beginning? I have a problem with portion control. I eat WAY too much food each meal, and it seems like I am hungry not too long after. I am allergic to wheat so I don't eat pasta, but I do eat tortilla chips in place of bread. Also, did y'all have problems when you started eating all those veggies? I do. Just last night I had a cornmeal crust pizza with one whole yellow pepper, one med red onion, cheese, grount turkey and corn meal as the crust. Man did I pay for the peppers and onions that night. Or I love cabbage, but it does not love me! Any suggestions for easing into eating that way? Thanks in advance, and thank you for posting this information.
> God bless you and yours
> Deb


In the beginning we already ate a lot of vegi's anyway. What I did was just make the same size meals and have something in the frige for an in-between snack. Unfortunately, there was no trick involved to make it easy because I put it in action during a health crisis she was having. We had been having problems with her health already and she got off-track and started buying breads and stuff again and her sugar freaked out. Once she got serious about it and started eating like she was supposed to, her sugars went back to the level they were at before. Still high but back where they were.

Please don't take offense to this but your diet is terrible. You should never eat another tortilla chip again as long as you live. No other potato chips or anything like that either. Corn is sugar. You gotta have sugar to make alcohol and corn is a preferred crop for alcohol because it has lots of sugar. Potatoes too. You don't need corn or potatoes at all. They're not necessary. sweet potatoes by the way are good, not bad like regular potatoes.

I think (my opinion) is that it's going to be a matter of rationing your own meals and if you get hungry, you just have to tell yourself that you will eat again in 2 or 3 hours and that's that. Put your foot down and walk away from the kitchen. I get the feeling you may eat a bit more than you what you think you should be eating. Your stomach is plyable and will stretch a little when it gets more than it can hold comfortably. It just keeps getting larger each time you do it, but it will shrink if you do the opposite. Unfortunately, that may mean you might be hungry after a few meals but it's something you have to do. It wont reverse itself and surgeries that staple or remove part of the stomach have resulted in a lot of fatalities. You just have to stop eating so much at one time.

Maybe you could try just doing the 3 cups thing like in the original post. Make 2 cups of each, brocolli, cabbage and lean white meat, but only give yourself 1 cup of each. When you're doing eating it, sit for about 10 minutes then see how full you feel. If you feel half full then get the rest. That's 6 cups of food which should be enough if you eat the right stuff. No corn chips. Brocolli, cabbage and lean white meat. Figure out what it takes you to feel just under full and start there but remember that your going to work down from there to get to around 2-3 cups or less, 5-6 times a day.

You guts are acting up with the cabbage and onions most likely because your digestion is out of whack from the foods you eat now. Digestion is a whole nother area but is really important too. When you eat the cabbage or onions or both, try something like beano before you eat those for a while. It has digestive enzymes in it that allow food to digest properly. The gas is from poor digestion. The food is not being disolved by what the stomach has released and is fermenting. Gases are let off in the fermentation process and wallah! Poots and burps. When Manygoatsnmore suggested dairy products daily, it was most likely because dairy products have some of these enzymes in them naturally. Yogurt is awesome for getting good bacteria in and pushing bad bacteria out. Yogurt was an aquired taste for me, I wasn't raised with any yogurt. lol. They have flavors though and I like that chocolate cherry stuff. You should have some yogurt every day too. Definitely use low-fat/low-sugar yogurt. 

If you want to make a basic list of what you eat now and send it to me in a pm, I can help you get the bad stuff out and give suggestions on some good stuff to replace it with or you can put it here. Just remember the exercise, 2:1 ratio and 5-6 meals a day to begin with and don't eat the stuff that's already been pointed out as bad. You don't have to have the cabbage if you don't want it. There's a lot of stuff you can replace it with. Beets, greenbeans...etc... Even just a leaf lettuce salad with tomato and any other stuff you like. Get a low fat dressing but try and go easy on it because "low-fat" could mean anything.

Pat Robertson has an awesome program that CBN will give you free. I suggest that because there's a lot of good stuff in his diet that will help a sweet tooth without as much sugar and he has good meal ideas too. I don't like a lot of stuff he has in there but the nutrient content is superior to anything else out there.

Let me know if I didn't answer something or gave you more questions.


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## hengal (Mar 7, 2005)

This is a great thread with GOOD information. I just wanted to add what has been successful for me, and the information you have given DAHC is very good, and its true.  My doctor put me on Glucophage for "pre-diabetes". Well, I hated that, but I've literally done it to myself with this weight gain.
I think it is so much more about portion control (as well as what you eat) than I think everyone realizes. Here is a typical day's menu for me:

*Breakfast:*

3 boiled egg whites
1/2 grapefruit

*Mid Morning:*

3 oz. chicken breast
1/2 c green beans

*Lunch:*

3 oz. chicken breast
1/2 C brown rice

*Mid afternoon*

2 oz tuna salad (miracle whip free/chopped celery)
1 cup salad

*Dinner:*

Broiled fish
Steamed broccoli
Salad

*PM snack: * 


I left pm snack blank because I usually am not hungry and don't get it in before bed. I am eating it seems all day, which keeps the metabolism charged up. Anyway, this has really helped me with portion control and yes....it is amazing how well my "plumbing" works! I also try to drink 96 oz of water. The first time I started eating this way I lost 8 pounds in the first week, 5 in the second. I also started biking on my stationary bike - starting with 2 miles a day. I find the weight comes off much easier when I move, especially since I am behind a desk all day. Also if I get in the mood for a pop I drink a Diet Rite (not in place of my water though) - no caffiene, no sodium, made w/splenda)

Anymore I look at sugar as a poison. I feel so bad after eating sweets its not funny... headaches, lethargic, moody. Its unbelievable what some things can do to your body. 
Anyway, thats just my experience. The glycemic index of foods definitely plays a big role in weight loss. I feel so much better now that I am not eating all those processed foods. 

God did not make our bodies to eat these sorts of things....but to eat foods in their natural state. People in biblical times did not suffer from heart disease, obesity, diabetes. They walked practically everywhere they wanted to go. Our bodies were not meant to be sedentary. Keeping these things in the forefront of my mind helps me alot.


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## Dahc (Feb 14, 2006)

mammabooh said:


> Wow...it's nice to hear someone else say this for a change. When I tell folks that, they look at me like I have three heads. Our friend's doctor told him it was perfectly normal to go once or twice a WEEK. I say it might be normal in America, but it's certainly not healthy!
> 
> This is a great thread with lots of very useful info...I hope many folks read it, not just the ones trying to lose weight.


LOL! Three heads!

I also heard that you know when you have a good digestive tract if you can drink beet juice and your next stool is purple... lol. Nasty. But it came from a very knowledgeable nutritionist...

Hengal: Your post is better than mine because it's the concept put into application and proven correct. My wife's word would go further than mine because she's the one who dropped 120lbs in less than a year. I never said a negative word about her weight because I knew how much it hurt her inside even with nothing said. If anyone reads this thread and you are overweight, just try it. You have nothing to lose, no one's selling anything. This will work for you so do it.

I keep forgeting to ask my wife about her before and after pics. I think tomorrow I'll just post them.


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

Thanks for the ideas and the information guys. Please keep me in your thoughts and prayers. I know I need to do better. I am all my kids have left and I finally want to be healthy again. I want to live. It is almost habit to eat like I do. There was a time when I didn't eat any sugar, or corn syrup. I did eat honey, but I had eliminated most refined foods from my diet. I need to go back to that. I went for almost two years no sugar. 

The articles on the high fructose corn syrup where eye openers. WOW! One of the symptoms of PCOS (Poly-Cystic Ovarian Syndrome) is that our monthly cycles stop when we eat a lot of sugar. Now that makes a lot more sense to me. 

I have another reason to want to loose weight....and I will tell y'all. In fact you guys will be the first ones on this board to hear this....*grin*. I have a boyfriend. There I said it. I have a boyfriend and he is pretty up front about wanting to have children. While I am not yet sure that he is the one for me, it brought up something else for me. If I where to re-marry I might want to have more children, and I certainly cannot do that like this. 

Dahc, I will try your suggestion. I don't need to post what I eat, because I KNOW what I am doing wrong. Too big of portions, too much ketsup, too many tortilla chips or potatoes. Not enough whole foods, fresh veggies and brown rice. I have a weakness for a "crunch" that comes from chips of some kind. I need to find some kind of a good substitute for this. 

BTW, how can I tell if my cornmeal is degerminated? I just bought a 50 lb bag of medium grind, organic corn meal.... I know it is a no no, but now I am curious. Speaking of corn meal.. do y'all feel that since corn turns to sugar in the blood so quickly, that it can be addictive like sugar or HFCS? I admit to having a terrible time going without corn or potatoes of some kind at each meal. 
Sorry this is all kind of scattered, but I do appreceate any and all help. 
God bless you and yours
Deb


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2006)

Hears The Water said:


> BTW, how can I tell if my cornmeal is degerminated? I just bought a 50 lb bag of medium grind, organic corn meal....


 If it's organic, it will be whole grain unless otherwise specified. So you're ok with that one.


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## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

Wow! Thanks for the info!


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2008)

Bumping so it won't get pruned. LOTS of good info in this topic.


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