# Minimum Breeding Age



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I had the rare pleasure of listening to someone express dismay because they lost a 'mare and foal' through the night and as always, they were fully prepared to blame Ma Nature for this atrocity. 

Further discussion led me to discover that the aforementioned dummy's mare was actually a rising 2 year old. Somewhere in the back of my head, I keep thinking she was born in late May/early June, which makes her awful young, in my opinion.

I fully understand that fillies are bred younger than that but I've never in my life considered breeding anything that young and prefer not to breed until I have a well trained proven horse. 

Without getting into a debate about breeding, I'm curious as to when you feel a filly is physically mature enough to breed.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Since I won't even start a horse until they are 3, I won't breed one until they have earned some form of worth under saddle and have proven to be of value, excellent conformation, and of sound mind with a good temperament. The youngest I have bred a mare was at 7, and that was only because my older mare wasn't able to conceive and I had already paid a lot of money on stud fees, breeding cost, etc.so not wanting to lose that stallion I bred my younger mare (she would have been my second choice anyway, I wanted her older though).


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I consider 3 years as the minimum age to breed a mare and that only if the mare is 'mature' at that age ... mentally as well as physically. The warmbloods are a little slower to mature than many breeds, so I often do wait for another year and breed at 4.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I don't breed until I have a proven horse but this gal wasn't even halter broke so I think the situation would have been tough to resolve even if someone was checking on her.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

aoconnor1 said:


> Since I won't even start a horse until they are 3, I won't breed one until they have earned some form of worth under saddle and have proven to be of value, excellent conformation, and of sound mind with a good temperament.


IMO, this is the ONLY way to do it. Why breed something that isn't tested? Why breed a mare at 3 before she has even done anything to show she's worthy of being bred? Same with stallions. There needs to be a *reason* to breed, not just because one has girl parts and one has boy parts.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

MDKatie said:


> IMO, this is the ONLY way to do it. Why breed something that isn't tested? Why breed a mare at 3 before she has even done anything to show she's worthy of being bred? Same with stallions. There needs to be a *reason* to breed, not just because one has girl parts and one has boy parts.


This isn't an issue of just having boy parts and girl parts, this is more a matter of someone trying to prove to the world that all you have to do to be a big time breeder is just read the Western Horeseman and buy a few grade horses and 'breed up.'


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## CountryMom22 (Nov 27, 2014)

I would never breed before 4 or 5 years. What's the point in breeding an unproven animal? Also, if the horse is still growing/developing, growing a foal and then feeding one is going to take away from her growing to her full potential. 

It's too bad the filly and foal paid the price for human stupidity. Things like this make me crazy!


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## malinda (May 12, 2002)

So, that filly was only coming 2 this year - which means she was bred before she even turned a year old. I don't think they physically can conceive any younger than that, and it's certainly not regularly done.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

malinda said:


> So, that filly was only coming 2 this year - which means she was bred before she even turned a year old. I don't think they physically can conceive any younger than that, and it's certainly not regularly done.



I've never done it but then again, I wean and geld before these things happen.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

When breeding a common (Well, she's special to me.) mare to whatever stud (no matter the breed, confirmation or projected result) that is close by, I believe one should wait at least until the mare is 30. JMHO.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

haypoint said:


> When breeding a common (Well, she's special to me.) mare to whatever stud (no matter the breed, confirmation or projected result) that is close by, I believe one should wait at least until the mare is 30. JMHO.


When one's ex decides that dairy farmer from Saskatchewan is sufficient experience to become a breeder of grade horses and leaves a filly die from a breach delivery, I'm thinking that a good vet with a sharp knife is a great all around solution :rotfl:


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Shoot, they don't even breed the heifers until they are almost 15 to 18 months old here, on the best dairy farms! Breeding too early is too hard on the heifer, so you easily can lose her delivering, and there goes all your money and time invested. You want her delivering after her second birthday.

Just good herdsmanship!

If the filly got in in with the stallion or a colt at such a young age, they have abortion shots for that problem. You just have to give them ASAP to get the foal gone on young animals. 

You FIX the problem that allowed the young filly to get bred by improving fences, stalls, so it doesn't happen again. 

We keep our colts entire until they are a year old on the calendar, to get them closing knees early, "stunt" their growth in height a little. We want height kept UNDER 17H, with the late gelding working best for this. We don't feed to make them grow fast, they mature at their own speed, takes about 7 years to be fully grown up. Ours are pretty mentally immature until they get MUCH older, not stallion-like or really talking to the girls at all. We have EXCELLENT fences, colts are turned out with the geldings who keep them in line, civil, socialized, play hard with them to tire colts out. We have not had an issue with colts trying to get in with the mares or fillies to breed them.

Just stupid all the way around for that young filly.


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## HorsesNGoats (Feb 5, 2015)

I wouldn't breed under the age of 5. That makes them 6 when they foal. I'd rather wait to 6 to breed though. That gives time to train them for the discipline you want, without them being shown or ran much if you contest or jump&#128523;&#128523;


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## TheFarmerMommy (Mar 21, 2014)

I think what happens in a lot of cases is that the owner is afraid of the horse but doesn't want to loose money. I live in an area with a huge churn of OTTB. I can't count the number of ads I see for mares that aren't saddle broke, have iffy ground manners based on the innuendo, and poor conformation. And they're still "great hunter prospect or broodmare"


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I can assure you that this person is afraid of his horses. He loves to tell the world how much of a cowboy he is but when it comes time to go to work, he mounts his Japanese Quarter Horse while the 4 legged models stand in the pasture.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

I agree with SFMinKY.
Yes, at that point, you are breeding on temperament, conformation and bloodlines, and those should _definitely_ be there. 
Yes, performance is still unproven, but a huge amount of that is training. I can make 90% of horses totally bomb-proof, that doesn't mean that temperamentally, that horse is a good candidate for breeding - they're not going to pass on what they are taught, but what they are born with, and after living with a youngster for 3-4 years, I have a pretty good handle on just what they're bringing to the table.

But mainly, the issues that can arise with older maidens is the deciding factor for me. mares who have their first foal at or after the age of 7 are more prone to issues than a mare who was bred at 4. And not just their first foal, but with every pregnancy.

So if I think that the mare has something to offer as a broodie _at all_, I'd like to make that decision sooner rather than later, even if I don't breed her again for 12 years until after her show career is older. 

Actually, I think that's a pretty good idea all around, to have a foal, then go on to show. Not only her performance, but then also the performance of the "child of her youth" will tell you if she's better off retiring as a broodmare or perhaps just to a less stressful riding/working career. As we all know, some stellar performers can't reproduce that, and some less stellar ones will consistently have offspring who outshine them.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Otter said:


> I agree with SFMinKY.
> Yes, at that point, you are breeding on temperament, conformation and bloodlines, and those should _definitely_ be there.
> Yes, performance is still unproven, but a huge amount of that is training. I can make 90% of horses totally bomb-proof, that doesn't mean that temperamentally, that horse is a good candidate for breeding - they're not going to pass on what they are taught, but what they are born with, and after living with a youngster for 3-4 years, I have a pretty good handle on just what they're bringing to the table.
> 
> ...


I can see your point but this was not the case. This is a grade mare bred to a grade stud they didn't find time to have cut and in as many months as they knew this, they also didn't find time to abort the filly and for as many months as they also knew the filly was bred and going to foal, nobody found the time to check on her so she didn't die out in a pasture trying to deliver a breech foal. There is no way on earth there was going to be any time in the future in which the foal would have been shown or proven in any way. 

My upset is probably less related to minimum breeding age and more related to stupidity at this stage. One quick call to a vet and we wouldn't be having this discussion.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

wr said:


> I can see your point but this was not the case. This is a grade mare bred to a grade stud they didn't find time to have cut and in as many months as they knew this, they also didn't find time to abort the filly and for as many months as they also knew the filly was bred and going to foal, nobody found the time to check on her so she didn't die out in a pasture trying to deliver a breech foal. There is no way on earth there was going to be any time in the future in which the foal would have been shown or proven in any way.
> 
> My upset is probably less related to minimum breeding age and more related to stupidity at this stage. One quick call to a vet and we wouldn't be having this discussion.


Oh, I 110% agree with you on the case you wrote about! That is horrific and completely and totally the owner's fault. I don't care how poor you are, a couple of shots of lute cost $5. It's not the best option, but is certainly better than agonizing death.

I was contributing to the drifted discussion of when the best time actually is. And one thing we call all agree on is physical maturity. I was just surprised at all the folks who would wait until a mare was well into her career. Breeding an older maiden isn't as risky as breeding a poor little baby, but it's a heck of a lot riskier than many here think. If a mare hasn't had a foal before she's 8 or 9, I'd think of her as a non-breedable animal, like a gelding, rather than risk her.

I don't have time right now, but interested folks should look up the vet studies on older maidens. I have a mare here I'd really like a foal out of, but if life doesn't settle so that I can take her to the _exactly right_ stallion this year or next, I will give up on the idea for the rest of her life rather than risk her. 
Not that it _couldn't_ be done, but I don't need the foal that bad that I'd chance it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Otter said:


> Oh, I 110% agree with you on the case you wrote about! That is horrific and completely and totally the owner's fault. I don't care how poor you are, a couple of shots of lute cost $5. It's not the best option, but is certainly better than agonizing death.
> 
> I was contributing to the drifted discussion of when the best time actually is. And one thing we call all agree on is physical maturity. I was just surprised at all the folks who would wait until a mare was well into her career. Breeding an older maiden isn't as risky as breeding a poor little baby, but it's a heck of a lot riskier than many here think. If a mare hasn't had a foal before she's 8 or 9, I'd think of her as a non-breedable animal, like a gelding, rather than risk her.
> 
> ...


This isn't even a money issue, he's got plenty of that so there is no excuse and since he's synchronized heifers for AI and he's called me before with questions and knows I would have answered honestly. He has a hired man, who also has a strong horse background and I'm stunned that he didn't mention the filly needed to be checked through the night or maybe he did and nobody followed through.


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## CountryMom22 (Nov 27, 2014)

As usual, the animal pays the price for human .... neglect/laziness/disinterest/ ignorance/miscommunication. Take your pick, the animal still loses.


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## 1sttimemom (Mar 1, 2005)

This discussion is obviously not really about what is an appropriate age for breeding a young mare. It is sad that these people didn't provide better care for this preggo filly. People make breeding decisions all the time that I don't agree with & I'm sure I have made decisions that other people don't agree with. There is no way to have any control over what others are doing for breeding plans (or lack thereof).


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Otter said:


> Breeding an older maiden isn't as risky as breeding a poor little baby, but it's a heck of a lot riskier than many here think. If a mare hasn't had a foal before she's 8 or 9, I'd think of her as a non-breedable animal, like a gelding, rather than risk her.


Now this is something we will have to agree to disagree on. There may be vet studies that show a higher percentage of problems associated with older maiden mares, but it has not been my personal experience and wonder if the vet information may be skewed because the older maiden mares they see are the ones that have issues conceiving in the first place, which can be an indication of possible problems.

The very first mare I ever owned was 18 when she foaled for the first time, not a planned breeding, she went for a visit with the neighbor's stud on her own. No issues at all and she went on to produce 4 more foals with no problems.

I've bred a number of maiden mares in their teens that were retired performance or working horses and have not had any issues, though I take the usual precautions I would take with any maiden mare and I avoid mares that require veterinary intervention to get in foal.


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