# A MUCH better option than the Harbor Frieght 45 watt Solar kit



## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

There is a lot of interest in the HF kit but it isnt the best of quality,so I wanted to put in a kit you can order that IS really good quality. If it scares you and you go HF thats OK too,Ive re-assessed my opinion on that because if it gets you moving on solar at all,then its a good thing,but you CAN do much better at same cost.

The parts I outline below should actually last 25 years,is expandable,and much better bang for your bucks.

This is the Harbor Freight,179.00 dollars,45 watts, and 2 light bulbs.Inverter in pic NOT included.A charge controller thats known as complete total junk that WILL fail and soon
http://www.harborfreight.com/45-watt-solar-panel-kit-90599.html









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Instead look at these.The panels are the same that the State of Ca. uses on the roadside emergency phone boxes,and the controller is amongst the BEST in the world,I have em,they are GREAT and hugely reliable,robust and larger capacity than what HF is unloading on you.

4 10watt monocrystalline panels for 100 bucks,25 bucks a piece....
http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=1405











And a 10 amp Morningstar controller for 42 bucks which is world class quality

http://www.ecodirect.com/Morningstar-SS-10-12V-10-Amp-12-Volt-p/morningstar-sunsaver-ss-10-12v.htm









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If you want even better Morningstar controller this one has several settings for turning off and on 12 volt lights or whatever,its 80 dollars
http://www.ecodirect.com/Morningsta...-12-Volt-p/morningstar-sunlight-sl-10l-12.htm

MorningStar SL-10L-12V Detailed Description:

The MorningStar SunLight controllers combine the features of the SunSaver controllers (including LVD) with an adjustable automatic lighting control circuit. This allows you to connect a DC light and have it come on at dusk for a set period of time or dusk-to-dawn. It's 10 position rotary switch lets you choose exactly how your DC light will operate.

Morningstar&#8217;s advanced SunLight solar lighting controller combines the SunSaver design with a microcontroller for automatic lighting control functions.

This is waaaay better than the Harbor Freight system,can be expanded up to about 160 watts total.Get your own components and get better thats not a beginners medium quality but usable/expandable A1 quality.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I am the idiot trying to learn I need a good book or a writen source to learn more about solar. I am really interested in learning. keep the info going . Now are your currently using solar and how are do you use this stuff. I want solar well pump.


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## Jakk (Aug 14, 2008)

Do you know of a reliable source for those panels other than Sun Electric? I bought my 200 watt panels from them and I am less than thrilled with their customer service and quality.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Thank you for the information. I've been considering buying the Harbor Freight cheap-o system just to get started experimenting with solar. I think it's on sale for $150 this month, but for the same money I'd rather go with something that works well and will last. Thanks again!


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> I am the idiot trying to learn I need a good book or a writen source to learn more about solar. I am really interested in learning. keep the info going . Now are your currently using solar and how are do you use this stuff. I want solar well pump.


Yes,I have several small 100 to 400 watt solar systems going.

The alt energy forum has the info you seek.

A brief explanation on hooking up a tiny system like the 40 watter.

Each panel has a + and a - screw. From each panel run a wire from the plus (positve) to the next panels +,when all are connected do the same on the - (negative) lugs.

Now from the last panel connected run a positive wire and a negative wire to the controller and screw em in where it says solar. Where it says battery you run a pos and neg wire and hook it to your battery.You would add an automotive fuse on your positive wires but for now dont worry about it.

So now you have the panels hooked to the controller which regulates the voltage charging the battery.And from the controller the wires to the battery so it can be charged.

From this point run whatever 12 volt item you want from battery.

Want to run 120 volt items then you need an inverter. They come in sizes from 50 watts up to thousands of watts,for this tiny system you would use something like this that connects to the battery posts,the ones with little clamps to connect to battery are easiest but again,no biggie,we are talking theory and whats involved.If you ever go this way the Alt Energy forum guys will walk you through it,its SIMPLE,remember that,simple.REALLY simple if you have ANY mechanical ability at all.

Something like this....19 dollars
http://www.google.com/products/cata...=X&ei=FknETePuOZD4sAOTyeTrAQ&ved=0CH4Q8wIwAw#









This shows how to get the connections for your 120 volt power from a 12 volt battery,,of course a tiny system like we are talking is only suitable for running items that dont exceed a couple hundred watts of 120 volt power.Wouldnt run that microwave with this little system.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

I checked out the link, but all I could see was the pallet price is $2.50/Watt. Am I missing something?


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Nothing wrong with starting with the HF kit as it is super simple to plug together.But if you can screw in your own wires instead of plugging them together,there are better options than HF.

As for sunelec never bought from them but the guys at alt energy forum have and are over all pleased with the super prices.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Hmmmm....this page says minimum order is 2?

http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_p...escription=1&keyword=UPG+Solar+Panel+10+Watts


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

I had thought about the Harbor Freight panels, but husband says they're junk, that the silicon surface is very thin, or something to that effect--that the surface that catches the light is thin and won't last.

FWIW, I know very little about solar, but I think I'm going to have to learn pretty darn soon. Had to laugh---now the last picture, I CAN understand!!

Husband has extensive electrician experience, which is good.

He's about to start scrounging up parts for a small wind generator.

Thank you for posting this topic!


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Jakk said:


> Do you know of a reliable source for those panels other than Sun Electric? I bought my 200 watt panels from them and I am less than thrilled with their customer service and quality.


Can you tell us more about that,I sure want to know,I know others have been pleased with them so your story would be much appreciated.

And for the happy folks,your stories too?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Thank you the dots conected for me. Now I have a better understanding. This is great becasue our siduation is that we have the cash to do this and it is a long term asset goal that will reduce the need to spend cash thus increase the pool of money for property taxes in the future.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Julia,I agree with your hubby 100%.

The little panels I show are monocrystalline,meaning they have thick individual solar cells.12-14% power output per size,VERY good number.

Its the oldest tech,the most proven tech for durability,and the most power output for size of cell.They used em on satellites in space and they held up.

The downside is cost.They cost more to make so usually cost a little more to buy.

They are my favorite panel pick by far.

I also have some multicrystalline,they are the shiny blue panels you see,next best choice and also very robust.Fine quality with a name brand panel.

The HF,Im not sure exactly what they are,but they appear to be these and I wouldnt buy these at present,no track record and durability unknown,though have seen some very early power loss rates on some...
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http://www.solarpanelcenter.net/Types-of-Solar-Panels.php

-Amorphous Silicon Panels &#8211; Amorphous silicon panels have the lowest electricity return rate of any type of solar panels. Traditionally amorphous silicon solar panels have an electricity return rate of between 5%-6%. That&#8217;s because these panels aren&#8217;t made with crystalline silicon. They are composed of a piece of semi conductive metal, like copper, with a thin silicon film over the top that is attached to some metal pieces.

These panels are very cheap to produce but when you&#8217;re buying solar panels for home use you need to consider the long term efficiency of the type of panel that you&#8217;re buying. Unfortunately, though cheap to begin with they do not produce much energy, therefore amorphous silicon panels are not going to be cost effective in the long run.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

If you want to see my trucks 320 watt system its at solar gary's site.

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/PV/TruckPV/TruckPV.htm

Dont let it scare you if you are a total newbie to the idea,stick to the simple one we are discussing.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

How a small system hooks up,click on the pictures to enlarge

First thing to do is hook the 2 panels together.Wire the positive to the positive of each panel together and add a pigtail wire to go to the charge controller.Same story with the negative wires.Im using 12 ga wire because its such a short run to controller

CLICK TO ENLARGE PICTURES






Flip the panels over....We are using the 2 panels on the left (180 watts total of 12 volt panels),the 3 on the right and above will be used on a different system to charge the battery bank that powers the house during power outages






Run wires through wall...




And mount the Charge Controller.This doodad controls panel output to get maximum charge rate from panels while avoiding overcharging battery




Now make wires to run from battery to charge controller




Oops,forgot to wire inverter to battery.This device changes the 12 volt DC battery power to 120 volt AC household power

Connect those battery wires then run them up to the Charge Controller




Now Connect the wires from the panels to the Charge controller.One should be ideally black (The 2 wires on left) But I have a lot more red wire so red it is.I did mark the end of the negative wire with black zip ties to tell it apart.Also note there should be a fuse in both the panel and battery circuit,I will add later as I didnt have handy.Regular 20 amp automobile type fuse is fine.




There we have it,all hooked up and devices plugged into the inverter receiving 120 volt AC power




Running a fan,a CF Light bulb and a string of LED lights in the 'barn'


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Added 20 amp fuses to battery line and solar panel line as its a 20 amp 12 volt Morningstar Charge controller...

The 2 wires on the left are coming from the solar panels.The 2 wires in the middle go to the batteries.The 2 wires on right go back outside and power the porch light as this controller has the optional light control circuit.




6 Deka batteries and small inverter,6 more Dekas coming hopefully....




Inspected and passed by 'Code Enforcement' aka dog...




.............


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

I use the small system for barn power,and outdoor light

My Latest project,all from Thrift Store parts so dirt cheap.I have no idea cost,last basket was 28 dollars and included 2 of the 35 watt tractor lights and the bracket.

I bent the bracket into a shape I liked...

Click to enlarge pics,lower resolution pics so dialup friendly



Run wires through wall to Charge Controller timer circuit,they are the 2 wires on Right.See,solar even loves* me*,wires are an upside down heart,LOL!...2 left wires to solar panels,2 middle wires to battery,2 right wires to light,Durn simple isnt it?






All wired up...




It works! All set up to run 3 hours after dark and 1 hour before Dawn.That Morningstar Controller is fine!




Im sure Mrs will paint it up real cute,but pretty cool light,eh? I went out at night and it lights the whole backyard,Nice! And on free sun power,gotta love it!


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

mightybooboo said:


> Hmmmm....this page says minimum order is 2?
> 
> http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_p...escription=1&keyword=UPG+Solar+Panel+10+Watts


Thanks! I tried to find it myself, but I failed.


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## Jakk (Aug 14, 2008)

Mightybooboo....
I bought a 200 watt panel from Sun Electric and it came with a burn spot on the panel. I called the company and they basically told me it's fine, not an issue. Hooked up the panel, it didn't work. I called them back and they said to me "What do you want from me, it doesn't work, you must have hooked it up wrong." Umm, no.. I called you when I first got it, before taking it off the pallet, and told you there was a burn spot. It did not happen because I hooked it up improperly. 

I get back on the phone, got the run around from one person to another. They put me through to the shipping department and finally argue with them enough that they agree to send me another panel, at their cost. 

Waited and waited, no panel. Several calls later, they finally ship the replacement panel. I opened it up IN THE DRIVEWAY, infront of the delivery guy, and guess what... a burn spot on the panel! I told him to take it back, I don't want it. He wouldn't put it back on the truck and told me I had to call the company to have them ship it back, or I would have to pay for the shipping.


I called Sun Electric back again and they get nasty with me. I told them they can call the delivery company to verify that I opened it in front of them and it was damaged. Then they tell me to ship it back to them, at my expense. I wrote a letter to the head of the company, got no response. I wrote again, and CC'd every person listed on their website. Finally got an email response and was again told to ship it back at my expense. They refused to pick up the two damaged panels and refused to send me a properly working panel. I refused to pay to truck ship the two damaged panels. 

So I cut my losses and now I have two panels that are burnt and do not charge anything. I am very unhappy with the company. I could not believe they sent me a second panel without checking to see if it was damaged or not.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Wow Jakk,thats mighty poor dealings!

Let me get back on some different panel options,doesnt have to be 10 watters....Could be a single 40 or 60 watt,let me update later with that option.


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## debbiekatiesmom (Feb 24, 2009)

this is just what i was needing to learn about! had been considering hf panel, too! any and all info you can give would be fantastic! thanks. step by step for dummies like me! do they have a book "solar power for dummies" out??


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## machinist (Aug 3, 2010)

Link: http://www.amazon.com/Solar-Power-Your-Dummies-Garden/dp/0470596783

I just Googled it. I have no idea what is in it, but it does exist. 

Soon you will want something like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Photovoltaics...ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304733210&sr=1-1-spell I do have this one, and love it. VERY good info, and all you need if you have even a little background in electrical stuff. Any modestly good electrical hobyist could take this book and run with the idea to build a complete system. 

I'd suggest the "package deal" with both titles plus another one. Good stuff, IMHO.

FWIW: I have bought from sunelec twice, and got good stuff, great prices, fast service, no problem. I'm really glad I did NOT have a problem with it, based on info in this thread. 

Another supplier that has been around a long time, with an excellent reputation AFAIK, is http://www.windsun.com/ I have bought from them several times with complete satisfaction. They also sponsor a discussion forum to help beginners solve problems. Good people, IMHO.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Another option is to buy quality brand used panels,since they last 25 years and more.Most all my panels are used bought on craigslist which is a great source of panels,just search keyword... solar panel

Dont be afraid of used panels,they have a lot going for them and you can find some real deals on craigslist if you will spend some time looking,they are spotty and can go fast so lots of searching required

This example is a Siemens 50 watt panel on eBay,delivered price of 145 dollars.Hook it to the morningstar and you are good to go

http://cgi.ebay.com/50-watt-siemens...376?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b1f01e88










I have 2 of those,you can see one in this pic
Click to enlarge




Or this,even better panel at 90 watts for about 260 shipped or so...This panel is better if you are going to expand system as it has a higher voltage that will match to other panels better than the 50 watt one.

You would have twice the HF output/system for about 300 dollars,and real top quality items.

http://cgi.ebay.com/90-watt-siemens...868?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aaae4716c


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Craigslist examples from my neck of the woods...2.15 per watt,I have a bunch of these,GREAT panels

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ele/2364088649.html

This is 1200 watts for 1500.00 dollars,thats 1.25 a watt!!! DIRT cheap!
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/mat/2364085723.html

85 watts for 140 dollars...1.65 a watt.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bfs/2358224158.html

You get the idea......


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## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

If I bought the system you first showed with the 4 10watt monocrystalline panels for 100 bucks, the 10 amp controller, what could I power with that? Im guessing you would hook up more than one battery correct? Like the box fan you have pictured, if I bought that system with one battery, could I run that fan 24 hours and a light or would I need to add a battery bank? Im afraid Im not very knowledgable electronic wise but Im really wanting to get into solar. Would like to have a small system out in the barn for a couple of lights and a fan, and a larger one here at the house independant of the grid so if the power goes out, Id have lights, be able to plug in a radio and such. I know I wont be able to run anything to cook with or anything else that is designed to heat, but trying to figure out what I can do on certain setups. Any help is appreciated.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Need the solar guys to explain what is usable with what setups.

Lets say you had 40 watts,and get 4 honest hours of light a day.Thats 160 watt hours.You lose at least 25% in storage and conversion losses so 120 watt hours a day.In reality probably even less.But lets just use 120 as the number under ideal conditions and keep it simple.

You could run a 120 watt bulb for an hour,or a 40 watt for 3 hours,or a 20 watt for 6 hours.

Thats not much power being generated with 40 watts of panels.

If you use it for backup rarely you could do like mine,160 watts powering 6 batteries.When I need the power there I have a good amt stored,and can take a week(s) to recharge it again.

Need the solar guys to really break down battery capacities and what they will do.

Im just addressing the HF kit and that small system,and as I showed,it doesnt do much.

But get this,a 4 watt LED bulb would be good for 30 hours,a 6 watt is good for 20 hours of what you could generate in a day,thats pretty good light,my 6 watt lights my bedroom pretty decent.You could get 4 of the 4 watts each running 7 hours a day,thats not bad at all.And if using 12 volt LED lights/radio and not losing power with the 120 volt inverter the return is even better.

For lights/radio,that little system does have potential for keeping you out of the dark and in the news.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

As for not being knowledgeable,just get your feet wet with the 40 watt setup and believe me,you will get that knowledge really fast,it gels quickly.

I really like the small system for just that reason,its a SUPER learning tool.And it will light up the dark,and believe me,the first time you see your light running from free solar power,it will blow your mind.Right now its abstract,seeing it in person with YOUR light,its astounding.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

cmcon=7 writes.....

Here are some solarex 53w panels for $100, these will beat the pants off of those cheap hf amorphous, and they are 1/3 the size, I bought 8 75w panels from him last year.

http://www.abneysolarelectrix.com/for_sale.pdf
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Thats a good price,I have some of them(big surprise). I bought at 2 dollars a watt from a local guy....They are GREAT panels,thanks cmcon!

One of these panels,the morningstar controller,WAAAAAY better than the HF kit! And better than my original post with 4 of the 10 watt panels,rather deal with one than 4 panels,thats even better yet.

Some of mine as purchased,see they havent been used in years,all the better!
click to enlarge


All cleaned up


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Funny you should ask! I just checked a 'Photovoltaics for Dummies' book out of the library a couple of days ago!! Ask at your library and see if they have it, or can get it.

Kathleen

ETA: This was for a poster above who was wishing there was a solar for dummies book!


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## machinist (Aug 3, 2010)

I don't think anyone mentioned it, but panels are made in several voltages! I have seen 18 volt and twenty four volt panels, and there may be others. For a beginner, I would suggest you stick with twelve volt stuff: panels, charge controller, and batteries. 

Read up on the subject and you will learn the value of other voltages, but there is a lot ot know to make use of them. Twelve volts is much simpler to use for a beginner.


FWIW: I have a system with 18 volt panels wired in series-parallel to get 36 volts so my transmission wires don't have to be so big. This feeds an MPPT charge controller that can handle 36 volts and efficiently make it into twelve volts for storage.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

The panels being discussed are 12 volt panels but in reality put out 16-22 volts depending on how measured.Dont sweat it,thats the charge controllers job to deliver what the battery needs,a 12 volt battery actually charges around 14.2 volts.

You can worry about voltages after youve done your first small system,dont need to worry about it right now when pretty much any panel under 110 watts or so is a '12 volt' panel.

You start getting into NEW panels greater than 170 watts or so,voltage will matter in regards to the type of charge controller you will need,they are MOSTLY lower voltage panels,a few are actually high voltage,and these panels require MPPT (special higher priced) controllers.

Not an issue for our low watt systems we are discussing,voltage will be at least 16-17 volts and the morningstar inexpensive charge controller will be plenty happy with such a panel.


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