# Have to decide how committed I am to this



## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

I want to homestead for a variety of reasons: satisfaction, health, values, environment, etc. I'm also one of those folks who think things are going to change, and a lot. 

For a variety of reasons, we are feeling that this house (which we do love) is a trap. There is not enough sun to grow more than a token amount of part-shade plants (we abut forest). The home is heated by oil. Solar panels are a laugh (see comment above - even my houseplants all died from lack of sun here). 

We have found a specific county in a specific state where we could buy a few acres and actually carry a smaller mortgage than we do now (and our mortgage is already very modest). It was scary making the decision to list the house and move to this location (which has a lot of things we like, but also some drawbacks, like it's cold - yup, I need expertise and tools for extending the seasons. Still, I can extend the seasons easier than I can make sun appear on my current property). So my husband and I talked and talked and talked and we both agreed to take the plunge, to sell the house, buy some land, and learn how to produce for ourselves. (The job is portable, so that part is thankfully not a concern other than the fact, of course, that we can't count on keeping the job indefinitely given the economy - but that's one of the reasons moving is a good idea, to reduce our debt and increase our options). 

But... there is zero interest in the house. I knew in this market it would take many months to sell, but we have not gotten one single phone call much less given a showing much less had a somewhat interested buyer. We talked and agreed we'd be ok walking away from the house breaking even. So we reduced the price to just a couple thousand over break-even (so we had a teeny bit of room to negotiate since a lot of people are unwilling to pay the asking price no matter what). No interest. Sure, we could lower the price by $2,000 more, but at this point I don't think it's going to make a whit of a difference.

So the question is - how committed are we to this?

We really do not like debt (we have the mortgage and student loan debt that we really regret and are trying to pay down quicker, but thankfully no other). I am very hesitant to take on extra debt to get out from under this house. I am starting to think that the house would sell for about $10k less than we owe on it (and even then, it would take months and months to sell). That's based on looking at the comps in this area. Taking on $10k of debt to move when we don't have to (we're making payments fine, job not asking us to move, etc) makes zero sense.

And yet. And yet. If it were just a pipe dream and I wanted to play homesteader, I'd tell myself tough luck. But there are two time factors that are in play, and I'm nervous.

One is that I believe we're headed for serious economic problems. We have no options in this house to produce for ourselves at all. I'm not kidding myself and thinking I can get a few acres and, boom, be indepedent of the system, not at all. But it gives us more options, more wiggle room. If we can produce 1/4 of our own food (and on a smaller mortgage to boot), we're that much better off. I don't believe we have years and years, either - our income is from a non-essential service and I think the company I work for has its days numbered. And given the rate of inflation and the fact that we have not had a raise in years (thus we make less every year) and the fact that our income is low enough that our savings is, I'm sorry to say, pathetic (not from any disinterest in being frugal, though - frugality is definitely a value we hold, we had been making do on a very modest income), we will be in a really bad spot when the company folds (note I said "when" not "if"). Jobs in this area (and probably everywhere) are scarce as hen's teeth. 

We're considering renting out our home. In theory that would allow us to move and reduce our mortgage payments (having the rent cover the current mortgage plus a little extra for maintenance on this home, and then just paying the new, smaller mortgage). But of course renting is a risky business and we could be left holding the bag on two mortgages. Which, believe it or not we could theoretically afford if we stick to a certain price range, a really really low price range that will buy is a few acres and a really crappy ancient mobile home. But still, wow, that's scary to think. Even scarier to think of tenants not only not paying their rent (and having to wait months to evict them) but also them destroying our home (which I hear is common - and I've seen it with my own eyes, too). 

We've never rented and we don't know what we're in for. We'd be a 4 hour drive away, which means that managing the property could take a great deal of gasoline and time unless we hire a management company, which I'm not sure we can really trust. 

Sorry this is so long, but this is just a lot for us to wrap our minds around and I hoped there might be some input from the homesteading community. I sure do wish we sold a couple of years ago, hindsight is 20-20 as they say. And my crystal ball is on the blink.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

One thing for you to consider that I don't see mentioned is have you "chatted" with a bank concerning qualifying for a loan IF you do not sell your present home and only rent it out? Most usually Banks will not lend on bare land and VERY few will lend on brand new mobiles, much less older ones. You really need to get prequalified for $$ for a new place using the parameters of renting your present home and THAT will tell you which way you can move. BTDT myself years ago - bought acerage on owner contract, whenit was paid off, thenpurchased a 20 year old mobile on a mortgage carried by the mobile company. Having been a bank loan officer for several years AND a realtor for longer than a few - buying land and mobiles are a whole nother ballgame than buying a stick built home on a lot.


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

We have been prequalified (not actually preapproved, just pre-qual) by a bank for up to a certain amount, which would buy us a bit of land and an older mobile home, without selling our present home. About the mobile home, maybe I'm using outdated terminology and perhaps I should be saying "pre-fab" - the bank we talked to was willing to loan on one as long as it's on a slab (permanent foundation). As for the age of the mobile homes in our price range, that could be a problem for the loan. 

Honestly, I would prefer to live in a very small cabin (350 square feet would be fine) than a mobile home. Unfortunately, while they exist in that area, they are not as common. I assume that would be more do-able from the bank's point of view (they would assume we were being idiots and getting a vacation home in this economy, I guess). 

Obviously we'd talk more to the bank before making drastic moves but my challenge now is to figure out how committed I am, and also just what makes sense. Like I said, more debt is counterintuitive to me, yet I am extremely uncomfortable just assuming everything will be hunky dory. It's like being stuck on the train track, and not being sure if it's a live track. Maybe a train will come along and maybe it won't, but it's a little freaky to just sit there and wait without trying to get unstuck.


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

Several decades ago I had the pleasure of meeting a real genius. He was an odd professor type who was doing an appraisal on a home I was selling. In reality he was in the business as a sideline, and finishing his doctorate in economics. His thesis was based on proving a very simple point. His theory, IMHO it is about as debatable as gravity, but a lot of folks don't quite get it, including my wife. His statement was this, If a home is listed for sale, it WILL be sold in the first six months IF two requirements have been met. #1 it has been effectively marketed. #2 is has been properly priced. It's really that simple. Recently, my wife and I each had a home to sell as executors of our mother's estates. Both are in the same town, on the same street. Both have been flipped, with new kitchens, baths and interior finishes. Both were listed within a few months of each other, with the same realtor. Mine sold in five weeks with a minor bidding war in the end. Her's has not seen an offer in the first five months of the contract. It's all about price. You put a fair number on it, based on CURRENT market value and it sells. My wife will be sitting on her family home until she learns the difference between current market value and her delusional concept of " I'm not giving it away!" One other thing, buyers are typically NOT like the folks that inhabit this site, they are often lazy, have stupidly high expectations, and do not, will not, or can not do a darn thing to the house they are buying. They want it cheap, move in condition and trouble free. They also do not waste time with overpriced properties. Add anything more than a few percent to your asking price and it's going to be real quiet until you get back down to reality.


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

I completely understand about the price. 

But of course it's not greed that makes me hesitate before lowering the price to below what we owe on it, though. I think it's common sense. Maybe it's actually the route I need to take, but stopping to think about it is wise, I think. I need to be _convinced _before taking on additional debt to get out of this house.

To owe $10k just to sell it - I am trying to wrap my head around it. Especially given that we are not foreclosing, making payments just fine, have no external pressures to move (job, family). 

Yikes, I just reread your last sentence. I wonder if this is really a good community. I need to get back to reality? Are you seriously saying that I'm being unreal by doing some soul searching before taking on additional debt for nothing but the ability to walk away from a house we are paying for just fine?

I'm going to give this community one more chance but, wow, not an auspicious start.


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## mountainwmn (Sep 11, 2009)

Right now prices are low. Very low. I just bought a place for about half of what it sold for 3 years ago. Is it listed through a realtor? If not, maybe you should consider that. A realtor will get it shown more, and tell you if your price is off base. Before renting, I would consider offering it rent to own. You may get a little better tenant, since they are looking long term. You also may get a little more cash each month, since part goes for rent and part towards the purchase price.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Have you considered buying an investment property close by? One where you could have a bit of a garden and set a camper. I don't know what your zoning regs are like but that is a possibility if there are no regs against it and the new property is close enough to allow frequent visits.


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## Mickie3 (Aug 28, 2010)

Something isn't clear here, why is the worth of the house (determined by market) lower than amount owed? Are you in an area that housing prices have fallen in? How much have they fallen, if so? What is the likelihood that conditions will change with respect to real property in the short-term? 

If you really want to sell the property, you are going to have to have to get in line with the comps for your area. One of the first things a buyer gets from their realtor (if using one, or many other sources, if not) when they want to make an offer on a piece of property is a comp analysis. Why? With all the crud that has happened in the real estate market, a bank is not going to loan more on a house than it is worth, they are now trying to protect themselves. Also, if a house is priced higher than the market, why would anyone who has looked at the market want to waste their time looking at it? Window shoppers are maybe the only ones, real buyers are not going to waste their time when there are others available.

The reality that was mentioned above (and apparently you are offended by?) is that no matter how badly you want it, if you price a property above what the market price is, it is not going to sell and you will not be able to get on with your life. If I have a house that buyers are willing to pay 100,000 for and I want 500,000, its *not* going to sell, no matter what I want.


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## DennisNYS (Jan 17, 2008)

I have to agree with the above statement.
I do not believe the comment TiogaCounty made re. a 'reality check' was an insult directed at anyone. 
Just a general statement of fact. :thumb:


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Looks like you need to stay put until it sells. Why would you want to take on extra debt now. You feel you fell into a trap, why make it worse. Don't fall into another. How would you do any of this if you do loose the job? Start working on what you can. Sounds like you bought a house on a shaded lot, can you cut several trees and let in enough sun for a small garden? You can do a lot on a small property. Start small where you are, start cutting expences. Save up, get out of debt. Buy the property you really want, build the cabin you want and move there when you can. Just my thoughts. Don't make changes because you feel trapped in a bad economy, just to then make things worse. You are worrying about things that might happen, put yourself in as good a place as you can using what you have. Now is not the time to do something you know nothing about, you could put yourself at risk....James


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

What about raised garden beds??it'd be alot cheaper to cut to trees and build some big raised rows for gardening? Just a thought, plus that would solve your solar power issue


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## thestartupman (Jul 25, 2010)

eyes wide open, I completly understand the thoughts you are having. My situation is very simular in some ways, and yet different in others. I am also torn between the deep gut feeling that I need to get ready for harder times that are coming. I have a steady job making above average income, but feel the end to my employment is near. I belive they are going to move the place, or sell it. My home is not worth less than I owe, but is worth far less than it was a few years ago. 

I am also looking to move away to another state (TN, or MO), and the part that gives me the most turmoil is that both of our children are grown, and we have one granddaughter, and another granchild on the way. I have talked over the situation with the wife over and over. I worry more about her, and how she will be away from the kids. 

I have often wondered how commited we were to this move, but the decision has been made. I excepted a buy-out from my employeer, and my fianl date has been set. There is no way to turn back now. All the legal documents have been signed, and I can never work for this employer, or its parent company again. 

We have decided that we will cut the price as much as we have to get the place sold. We are doing nothing drastic at this time because we have until March 31 before the last day of work, but we are ready. 

The one thing I would suggest that you might want to do would be to put an add on Craigslist, for a housing swap. It sounds like you are not going to move too far from where you currently live, and you may find someone that is wanting to move back to the city life, that lives in the area you are looking to move too. It might help both of you to get out of your current situation. Good Luck


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

I have to say, I'm really confused by many of the responses. Maybe I wrote too much in my post trying to explain, and it got skimmed over and some assumptions were made.

I am fully, absolutely, completely aware that I need to lower the price if I want to sell it. No-one needs to lecture me about market values. I am not stuck on the house having to sell for X amount, or having to have whatever amount of profit. So we can set that aside.

The question is not "why is my house not selling?" The question is, "given the market is not supporting my asking price of a break-even, should I take on more debt to sell at less than what I owe on it or just stay put?"

So I don't need any lectures about how I need to get back to reality and know that the market and not what I owe on the house is what's important when selling. I know. Yet I would be an idiot to simply go off the deep end and lower my asking price to below what I owe on it without giving this some deep thought. And that's what I was here to do.

Am I better off or worse off if I take on additional debt to get out of a house where I can't do for myself and get some land where I can? I don't think this is a no-brainer question. There are some very good arguments for both sides, and ultimately the answer depends on the future. There are scenarios where I could look back and say "if I knew what I know now, I would have done anything I could to get out of this house, even taking on more debt." There are scenarios where I could realize I put myself in a very bad position by putting myself into more debt, and the advantage of the land did not make it worth it.

Someone asked how I could owe more on a house than I could sell it for. I'm not sure if that was a serious question, but I think there has been a great deal of discussion in this country about our very serious housing crisis. We have been living in a housing bubble and it popped. My husband and I married and bought our home a few years before the bubble popped. In case you are ready to blame us for making a poor decision, we happened to be at the point in our lives when we married and saved a down payment for our house then. If you bought your home 20 years ago, good for you, but this is the age we happen to be. I will also share personal information and tell you how much we bought our home for: $85,000. We were approved for up to $110,000. We were not reckless or stupid, we bought what we could comfortably afford. 

We can still afford it, as I stated. But when we bought the house, we had no knowledge of or interest in homesteading. We did not grow up on a farm. Our parents shopped in grocery stores and did not make anything for themselves. This is the life we've lived, and we have come a long way by learning new ways.

This seems like a very judgemental forum, and that's too bad. I was very excited when I found this place and hoped to find a good community of thoughtful, supportive homesteaders. 

So, in case I'm not clear, are people here giving me the advice to take on extra debt and lower the price to a sellable point, because I really would be better off doing that than staying put? Is that what you're saying? If so, can you explain more of your thought process other than just "I need to face reality"?


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

I have reread all the answers, and realized that the responses of only three posters have hit a sour note (or perhaps they were indeed trying to be helpful but none have really read my posts). I wanted to tell the others I appreciate their suggestions and ideas.

Rent to own is something that I also considered, to sweeten the pot. 

Raised garden beds unfortunately won't solve the sun problem here, unless I raise them to about 20 feet in height. I appreciate the idea, though - of course you couldn't know the lay of my yard. 

James, I have to agree with your position that extra debt is another trap. If we lose the job, and we probably will, we could be in really bad shape.

I don't own the trees that would need to be cut, but my husband and I discussed talking to the neighbors about it. They might be willing to allow us to cut their trees. In fact they might actually appreciate it (we are all hurting for sun in our neighborhood, due to mountain forest directly above us).

Investment property nearby is also something we are seriously discussing. That would likely be a 1 acre wooded plot. We can install a wood stove here and manage a stand of trees remotely (10 miles away or fewer). If we open up a clearing, we can also add a small orchard.

There is a community garden plot nearby. It's not as nice as having your own land outside your own door, but it's an option and I think I will take it.

Thanks for your thoughts.


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

So if ur neighbors agreed to cutting trees, you couldn't do raised beds? I say make what you have the most economical and self sustaining, keep ur house for sal, when the time is right u will sell without going into more debt. The more work you do on your house, the more likely u are to break even ;we are in the process of scoping out our homestead land, planning to buy in spring  it is hard to know when to rush and when to be patient. But the good Lord is in control of all!


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## Nature_Lover (Feb 6, 2005)

A friend has his house on the market. He wasn't getting any potential buyers, they just weren't interested.

He offered a $2,000 bonus to any buyer's agent that reached a closing.

People are walking through his house every Sunday now.
It's just a matter of time (and quantity) before he'll get an offer he can afford to take.

Buyer's agents are showing that house to everyone, even those folks that they haven't signed on with yet, knowing that someone is going to get much more than just their 2%.

If I were you, I'd put the price back up to where it was before, and offer half the difference as a buyer's agent bonus.

You'd still have room to negotiate at the end, and walk away without a loss.
Good Luck!


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

I wonder if you could stay put til the house sells, but get a loan to buy the land? You could always put a structure there later. Or put a cheapo mobile home on it and rent that out while you wait for the house to sell.


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## Deb862 (Jun 22, 2005)

You asked why your house might not be selling and after reading your info, I think you answered your own question...."no sunlight". If this is a serious detraction to you, you can bet that it is also a serious detraction to just about everyone else also. I know we are currently looking to purchase a home and that would definitely be something that would automatically rule the property out at ANY price, even if I was looking for a home in town. 

Of course, some say that anything will sell if the price is right and this is true; however, the price that someone is willing to pay for a home with little sunlight will probably be much, much lower than you can or are willing to go.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Hey, think outside the box a little! How about 'borrowing' land? Do any friends, neighbors or family members have a big, green swath of lawn they'd be willing to let you turn into a garden in exchange for a share of the produce? What about running an ad on Craigslist offering to caretake an elderly or handicapped person's yard in exchange for a garden plot? If you're close to town, can you rent a plot in a community garden, or start one up on a vacant piece of land loaned by the city? Maybe a nursing home, adult foster care or domestic violence shelter would let you cultivate a plot -- the residents might enjoy seeing the garden growing.

Drive around your area, look for some suitable land, and ASK! Keep knocking on doors until someone says yes.


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

Deb862 said:


> You asked why your house might not be selling and after reading your info, I think you answered your own question...."no sunlight".


Could you point me to where I asked this? I can't find this, but this might explain all the confusing answers I've gotten.

The house isn't selling because of the sunlight issue; no-one has even seen it. It's because our asking price (which is our break-even point) is higher than the market right now. This wasn't a question I had. I started this thread because I had the answer to that question, and wanted to figure out how desperate I was to sell (thus, if I was willing to shoulder additional debt to bring the asking price down to the market level).

To the poster who asked why I couldn't do the raised beds since the neighbors agreed to allow us to cut the trees - hopefully we can, now. This was brand new information, information I did not have until maybe an hour before I mentioned that was a possibility. Though I don't know why they have to be raised beds; I know they have certain advantages (in fact I have two right now) but I'd prefer to actually work the ground if I can.

Well, anyway, my husband and I came to a decision on the question I posed in this thread. We decided that not only is it irreponsible for us to take on more debt to move, that's it's actually impossible. The amount we'd lose wouldn't so much be a debt (a loan we have to repay) but a liability we'd have to pay immediately and out of pocket. I'm sorry to say we simply don't have that cash. So we've realized it's not an option, period.

And we felt it was much too risky to try to rent while taking on additional mortgage debt. If we feel urgent because we think things are going to change for the worse (an economic depression, for example), then renting is surely a bad idea. If the tenants stop paying (and even in good times, that's a very realistic risk), that will cost us much more than we could realistically be saving by harvesting some of our own food and our own firewood. 

So, we have made our decision. We're staying here and will be working on increasing our security in this house. Cutting a few trees to the west to open up at least some afternoon sunlight. Saving up and installing a wood stove and an acre of wood (as well as tools to harvest) so we're not entirely dependent on oil heat. (Of course we'll start right away with the neighbor's trees - we can season that wood while we save up for the stove). Renting a plot in the community garden, and planning my gardens so I grow more shaded plants (lettuce and other greens, broccoli, herbs, etc.) here at the house, and the sun lovers (eggplant, corn, tomatoes, peppers, etc.) at the community garden. 

My husband will build a root cellar in our basement. We already buy our produce from local farms, so we can also purchase certain things in bulk as they are harvested, and put them by in the cellar, in cans, or dried. (I need canning equipment, but I do have drying equipment already). We already have a small compost operation, but just bought some chicken wire yesterday so we can have two big bins as well. We can consider buying a year's worth of grains from a farm about an hour away, next year (have to save up). We'd get wheat berries, dried legumes and other things in the package for a few hundred dollars. 

I may sound silly, like we're saving up for the zombies to come, but honestly I'd enjoy doing all this even for "nothing." I think we benefit just from learning about this stuff, living a life that is more "real" and thus being more grateful for what we have and what is so easy in this world. Also, I believe that we would ultimately save money overall, and if we're frugal that's always a good thing, it gives us more options. We have a 5 year old daughter, and I'd love to equip her with more knowledge than we were given when we grew up, plus with the values of frugality (which my parents and my husband's father did NOT embrace at all). 

I do feel empowered with my shift in thinking - previously we felt we could do nothing in this house. Now I think we do have options here. Some are expensive - the wood stove and the acre of land will require a good amount of savings - but I think it's still cheaper and certainly less risky than dumping this house for less than we owe on it (and we'd be sure to save up and pay cash rather than take on more debt for it). I think the wood stove and lot will be a sure investment, because I don't see how oil isn't going to continue to go up and up (I think it's supposed to increase by 17% this year alone, is what I've heard). (BTW, I know oil heat is not common throughout the US, but it's the most common heat in our neck of the woods and has been for decades, so it's not so strange). In any case, we'll just have a lot more options.

I do know we can only take about a 1/2 cord of wood off our acre if we're trying to do it sustainably, but it's a start - we can maybe buy another acre later, or look up the legality of scrounging for fresh deadwood in our local forests, or work out a deal with a landowner with a lot of wood in the area, or many other options.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

You came here with a mind set and the conversation opened up possabilities for you. It is all good and we know you are open to learn. Start small and do things that don't cost a lot. I would not buy an acre for wood, much cheaper to find and use what is available. If the right plot comes along be ready for that, save up for your dreams. Get out in your community and start using and finding what resources are available. If SHTF happens, working together will be the strength you need until you do learn what is needed. Good luck and happy homesteading wherever you are....James


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Well where are my manners. Welcome and I hope you have more questions and are able to use this forum in the future. Let us know how it goes in your adventures. I hope you find what you are looking for, keep your dreams alive but don't get discouraged if it takes a while. It is good you are thinking about your future and your daughters future. Happy homesteading and enjoy what you have and will have. Good things come to those who work for it....James


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

Thank you for the welcome, James. And it's nice to be wished lucked in homesteading, though I don't think I can really qualify! I guess I'll remain a homesteader-wannabe and gardener  And maybe in a few years once I've actually cut a chicken's throat I'll graduate to Homesteader Lite!


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## Willowdale (Mar 19, 2007)

Welcome, Eyes Wide  I don't post often here but read a lot and find the forum extremely helpful. I imagine you will too. 

Now, take what I say for what it's worth, which is the free advice of someone you've never met and know nothing about...

Real estate is aweful now, but will get worse later. The problem with forclosures that is finally hitting the fan will make it even harder to get loans and sell property. It may also force the presently not good economy down further. That would say, if you really want to move, do it while you can and *if* you can, but first thing is to establish a serious bottom line of how much loss you are willing to and can afford to take. Make sure you don't get yourself in a panic or fire sale mentality. You don't want to be in a situation where your financial decisions only work out well if society disintegrates. Some folks have gone into big debt to "prepare" and have instead ruined themselves. Consider what would happen to your income if the economy gets worse, and don't back yourself into a corner where you can lose your new place if you hit a significant setback -- homelessness is much worse, prep-wise, than a place without sun exposure!

I have a farm I love, but I spent enough fixing it up that I'd be in trouble if I ended up out of work. I'm focusing now on making my situation more secure. I love my farm, and I definitely have a lot of comfort knowing I have a place for my kids and their families to retreat if times got worse for them, but I don't like having to depend on my income from outside work.

I recommend brainstorming ways to make your present place more sustainable. You can raise chickens without sun, and rabbits. Look up permaculture and food forest gardening for edibles that can thrive in your shade (there are way more than you think!). Look for a place where you can garden on someone else's land, as someone suggested above, possibly on a friend or acquaintance's property in exchange for a share of the produce. You might even be able to keep the chickens there, if there's local ordinance against them.

In my opinion the real estate market is *not* going to improve anytime soon, unfortunately.


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

Raised beds for the simple fact that if you have trees causing shade problems, you will probably have a ton of root issues! I feel like you don't appreciate the well meaning help we've offered ;(


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

mamaof3peas said:


> Raised beds for the simple fact that if you have trees causing shade problems, you will probably have a ton of root issues! I feel like you don't appreciate the well meaning help we've offered ;(


Oh, I see - you're thinking about roots. Actually, not only did I appreciate the advice, I even said so in so many words in a prior post 



> I appreciate the idea, though - of course you couldn't know the lay of my yard.


And further to the above - that you couldn't possibly know the lay of my yard - that's why I didn't know what you meant about raised beds since you didn't mention roots (I thought you were suggesting raising them out of the shade, but I just couldn't figure it out). The trees are not next to the area I wish to cultivate. I am situated on the side of a mountain. So the trees are maybe 30 feet away, up 2 terrace levels. They are a somewhat mature stand of maples, not redwoods or anything like that - yet because their roots are 25 feet higher than my (very small, 0.1 acre) backyard, they tower over it and block out all but the most midsummer sun. Hopefully that makes sense. Roots are not a concern, just the shade.


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

Oh! Now tht makes perfect sense! Thanks!


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

EWO,
Welcome to the forum. And yes, you are a homesteader. Around here, it's a state of mind, a preparedness, perspective, a desire to be as self sufficient as possible. I'd say you qualify!


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

Thanks, mamaof3peas!

And thanks for the welcome, Madame.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Actually it's pretty easy to owe more on your house than what it's worth (don't remember who made the comment). Property values have dropped drastically in many areas. Right now I owe more for my house than it's worth due to the drop in home values around the state (and the fact I have a home equity loan on it).


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

Eyes Wide Open said:


> I have to say, I'm really confused by many of the responses. Maybe I wrote too much in my post trying to explain, and it got skimmed over and some assumptions were made.
> 
> I am fully, absolutely, completely aware that I need to lower the price if I want to sell it. No-one needs to lecture me about market values. I am not stuck on the house having to sell for X amount, or having to have whatever amount of profit. So we can set that aside.
> 
> The question is not "why is my house not selling?" The question is, "given the market is not supporting my asking price of a break-even, should I take on more debt to sell at less than what I owe on it or just stay put?"


If you really don't want the debt or can't afford it, you should stay put or rent it out.


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## Forest (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi EWO, from another newbie.
I can't really give you too much advice on the house issue- it sounds as if you have come to a decision that works for your situation already. 

But I did want to give you an enthusiastic thumbs up for the community garden idea. I live smack dab in the city and will need to for as long as I work (and I do like my work). I have a 400 sqft plot in a community garden and I highly recommend it. Not only will you, with careful planning and intensive gardening practices, be able to grow all the veggies you need at least for the summer. On top of that, you gather practical experience with gardening, which gives you the peace of mind to KNOW that you can grow your own. And the best thing of all is the "community" in community garden. We have met the nicest folks there. Some have very different gardening philosophies, but others have given us great advice.

So, too look at it from a "prepper" viewpoint: you are building skills and knowledge. Skills that will be with you wherever you go, and can't be taken away from you.


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

eyes wide open, I just got back to this thread, and looked for the first time since I wrote my response and read yours. Please don't be offended by my thoughts on real estate values. First, I'm a guy and I see things without a hint of anything but the cold reality of the moment. Second, I am a builder and still putting two kids through college and packing cash away for retirement in this depression, so I have been through a lot of ugliness in this R.E. crash and I'm still standing. My response is nothing personal, just facts that you are clearly aware of. I hope you find a solution to this, and end up happy with whatever you decide. Good luck.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Welcome. I say that if you wait until the timing is perfect, you will never make the leap. Go for it! I agree that the economy is is a bad place and getting worse, so I completely understand your desire to be on your own land. 
By the way, cutting a chicken's neck is not bad...if I can do it, anyone can!!!


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

Tioga - thanks.

Shanzone - I've not cut a chicken's neck but I've seen it done and I lived. (The chicken didn't).


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

if you have to cut a chickens throat to be a homesteader I will never b one. I am such a weenie I give my birds away cuz I can't do it.
Shame onm e:>)
EWO welcome to the forum. Tons of information and support here. I think you came up with a good solution. I do not think I would accrue more debt right now. Security to me is getting our debt down. We waited 16 years to find our land and still are not living there. As much as I would love to the timingis off...and timing I think is everything. Keep your goals in mind and take babysteps to getting there. Eventually it will happen.


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## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

welcome! i think you have come to a sound decision. adding debt when you can 'make do' IS homesteading mindset!! as gramma said...use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without!' well, you're making do. 

sometimes a post can sound harsh here, but i found its often a simple mix up in reading words vs. hearing them spoke. often that person isn't meaning anything harsh, just putting out the facts, as they see them. most are offering their best knowledge and some if it has been a HUGE help for me. 

a comm. garden space will be good, not only getting produce now, but you will gain all sorts of knowledge that when/if you get to your dreamland, you'll be better knowing where/how to do things there from the start.


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