# 1 or 2 a little help making deciding



## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Ok, I posted here a while back when I got my first LGD see the thread.
New Pig LGD, Anatolian cross
As I explained I intend for the dog to guard my pigs. Maybe 15 or so sows (all having piglets at some time) and more than likely broke up into 2 herds, but on the same 20 acre property. The property will be a mixture of woods/pasture and some is steep and rocky, so yes, it is difficult terrain. I figure I could make some way for the dog to travel between pastures by making small wooden ramps, if you will, so she can cross fence lines, but to steep for a pig. 
At any rate. I got 1 because not having LGD before I was afraid 2 would buddy up and pay no attention to the pigs. She has been with the pigs for about 2 months now and seems to be quite content to stay with them. They are all in a much smaller area now, but I intend to move them to the 20 acres in the next several months. 
So what is my question??
Well many replied to my first post and said I should get a litter mate to her and have 2 dogs, not just one for that many animals and 20 acres??? So, I took that advice and looked around. Now I have found a male about her same age for sale. Her litter mate was no longer available. The dogs I have found, a female is not available. I am not wanting to start a puppy mill, so I am thinking I can get her fixed, if I get another that is a male, or I could put her up when she comes in heat? Either way, we could control breeding, does not seem like a big issue. I guess my big question is, is 2 really better. I do not want to have dogs, just for the sake of having dogs. So does everyone really agree? I should have 2 for the scenario listed above?? Would it be reasonable to expect 2 dogs on the same 20 acre property to guard 2 separate herds?? or will they buddy up and just stay together with one group and ignore the other group??


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

Absolutely get a second one. They work much better in pairs, not to mention the fact that with two, they stand a much better chance of being able to handle an attack of multiple predators.
You want them together with the herd,or at least able to run to each others defense in a split second.
I have Pyrs, male and female. We fixed our Male, as they are litter mates, and we do eventually want puppies.
I don't know too much about Anatolians, but with Pyrs I can tell you that two females will fight for dominance, well before two males will. So a male/female combination is best.
When our Maggie has her pups next year, we will be keeping back 2 pups for ourselves, and they will be a male and a female. they'll be a separate working team from their mom and uncle, in an entirely different pasture.

On a side note, you will need to keep them apart when she goes into heat for awhile. It is best to wait until they are about 18 months, to 2 years old to spay or neuter, depending of course on which one has it done....


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Don&#8217;t you also have mules as a line of defense? This changes the picture because you are not solely dependent on the dog(s). I would train the first puppy and wait until next year to get a second. This will give you time to find what you really want. It will give you time to see what weaknesses your first dog has and balance the second dog either in buying or in training. A giant breed isn&#8217;t finished growing until about 3 years, which is a long time to wait when you have male around. You might also find an adult trained dog in that time, though most of them are bonded to sheep.

Keep in mind that in eight years you will be looking for a puppy or young dog to replace your current one/two either because of age or death.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Maura,
This was indeed my first thought when I got the LGD that I have now. Not sure if I really needed it, but it cannot hurt anything and will probably take care of some small pest such as ***** and possums? There are also some neighborhood dogs, but it is unlikely they will make it past the mules to get to the inner pens, but just in case, nice to have the dog. 
What made me consider 2 ?? Well, opinions on here of course got me to researching it more. But also a new discovery that we have at least 1 black bear in the area. We are still busy building fence and preparing the little 20 acre piece for the livestock and recently found fresh bear sign on the property. This got me to really thinking about 2. I know 2 dogs will not kill a bear, but if the bear did decide to visit my pigs. One dog would act as a distraction for the other and I am sure the possibility of losing a single dog would be reduced greatly. I can assure you my mules would want no part of a bear and would let it pass with a wide berth.
I have also been reading many other sights and it just seems no one in the LGD community is recommending 1, everyone is recommending 2 or more for various reasons. The argument I read most recently was the most convincing for me. Pointing to the fact that when you have 2 dogs they will actually play and fight each other and become better fighters, just as children who are raised in a multi-child home. This makes sense to me. below is a link to the article

http://www.lgdnevada.com/How_Many_LGD_s_to_Run_.html


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

First, you have mules. They will form a united front and appear more threatening than they are. Second, you are protecting pigs, not sheep. And a few pigs, not a hundred or a thousand. Third, you have GP, not Anatolian. While GP have been known to fight predators, they mainly bark. They have a very very low prey instinct. Also, you don&#8217;t want your dogs fighting with a bear, even multiple dogs will be badly injured or killed. You want to get to know your dog&#8217;s bark and pick up a gun if you suspect a bear.

I&#8217;m not saying don&#8217;t get a second dog. But, two puppies aren&#8217;t going to protect your pigs from very much. You could get a grown dog as your second dog, but you aren&#8217;t likely to find one that is bonded to pigs. If you wait, you will have a half grown dog that is still a puppy but loves his pigs and either also guards the other animals or at least tolerates them. 

If you get a dog that is bonded to one or two of your other livestock species this may work for you because he will bark at any intruder in order to protect his buddies, and this will protect the pigs.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I know what she looks like. I also know what her dam and sire was. The dam was all Anatolian, not a hint of GP in her. The father was the mix. I do not expect them to fight a bear. I do know from Hog hunting, though, a single dog is a dead dog in many cases. They run around and bark and know they cannot take on a boar, but if the boar ever gets the upper hand and gets them down, they are as good as dead without another dog to distract the boar long enough for them to escape. 
I do really appreciate the info and opinions though, different perspectives is always good to think about. The 2nd dog I was considering is with goats and chickens now. My kids have goats and at some time in the future they may share the pasture with the pigs, in order to help with weeds and such?? 
I am not crazy about getting an grown dog, just as I am not crazy about buying a grown mule. I know some people probably do sell good adult dogs, but it has been my experience with other animals, no one sells their best, after they spend time training. I would never sell my best mule or my best pig. I would however, sell a colt or a piglet, that may would, grow up to be just as good! I have found most others I have dealt with to be the same. I think you may get a good dog from someone, but never a Real good dog from someone, they are keeping that one.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

Muleman, I agree, I would never sell my two. 
Now when Miss Maggie has her pups, we will be keeping two, and you know we will keep what we perceive at the time, to be the best two. 
I'd really go with a pup, use another form of protection for now, and let the dogs be together. 
In a bad situation, the mules can distract, while the dogs tend to business.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

You're getting great information (as is usual in this forum); and your situation is somewhat unique in that, if I remember correctly, your pigs are inside another pen inside your acreage and your mules are in the outer pen. 

You know your mules and should they let that bear in past their area so as to get near your pigs, the one dog you have now would alert you. (I really doubt your one dog would try and take on a bear. OMG my Karakachan would; but she would be foolish to do so.) If your "inner" pen where your pigs are is the 20 acres, then I still think you need 2 LGDs in there. And I would get them both similar in age. (I'm also quite biased in that I have no doubt a pup needs another "dog" to learn to play fight with. So this is something you really need to consider.) They could not kill the bear could at least keep each other from getting killed while you had time to get out there with your gun.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I put off the idea of 2 at least for now. She was doing fine and seemed content until the last few weeks. I moved all of my mules to the new property, but it is not quite ready for the pigs (need more fencing) I enlarged the area the pigs was in here at home and there are quite a few more fences and gates and such. Once I let them into the larger area, she has decided she wants to leave and play with our other dog out in the yard more. She has grown physically so now she can climb better and has managed to find her way through some of the bigger openings in the gates and dug under a low spot in the fence. I have since zip tied a stick top her collar and she is staying in for now. I am a bit disappointed as she seemed content with her pigs before. She still is quite social with them and plays with them, but seems to get bored? Anyway, I have put off getting another, until I am sure she is trained properly to stay where she is needed. I am not sure having two at this point would not make the matter worse?


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

All of the dogs need to get along. Just because she wants to hang with the other dog doesn&#8217;t mean she won&#8217;t protect the pigs. When you are out and about let her out to scout around and play with the other dog.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Funny thing is she still does not run out the gate when we go in to feed or when we go out. She mulls around and is interested in what we are doing and what the pigs are doing (to the point she will eat very little) this is when we feed her, when we feed the pigs, most times the pigs finish up her feed as she is too busy doing other stuff. She does not attempt to get out of the pig pasture until we are gone and most times when we are inside (we are outside most of the day) Our Retriever will go in the pig pen sometimes when we feed, but she is old and really does not seem to happy with the idea of the young dog jumping all over her (too old to play much anymore). I still want to get another one. I think I will just wait a bit till this one is over the puppy stage and settles down a bit maybe??


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