# Selecting a Rifle or Two



## dltasig7 (Feb 5, 2015)

I'm going to purchase a rifle or two in the near future when I move to an area where it's legal to hunt with one. I have some specific topics I will take into account below. Maybe it's the wrong order to decide on a caliber before a rifle? Hopefully your recommendations will narrow down the field.


I have no pre-conceived idea about or love for a particular caliber. I hunt deer and bear (currently with bow or 12 ga.) When I move to VT, maybe moose? I'll also be hunting coyotes/coys.
I'm a traditionalist, and would not consider an AR platform gun or anything synthetic stocked. I'm also prefer open sights to a scope. (If/when I were to get a black powder rifle, it would be a Hawken .50 cal.)
I'm not opposed to buying a used rifle. (Both my Ithaca shotguns were pre-enjoyed.) I'm not hung up on a rifle manufacturer, and budget is an issue that may eliminate the two guns below.
I like the Winchester Model 94. (I just like lever action guns, probably due to my love of westerns and Civil War movies.)
I also like Remington 700's. To me, they "look like" a rifle.
If I never bought another rifle, this would give me two caliber options. If I _could_ afford a third rifle, some I've talked to say that .234 is nice all around.
Maybe this should have topped the list, but I'm most concerned about ammo *availability.* If availability made a rifle purchase more expensive, then so-be-it. (I'm not opposed to learning how to re-load, but would rather not calm this supply fear that way.)
It would be cool if one of the rifles took the same ammo as a future revolver purchase.
Anything else I should consider?
Your feedback is GREATLY appreciated!


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Hard to beat the Remington 700 BDL or ADL with walnut stock and blued finish. A .270, .308 or 30-06 will easily handle all of the large game you've mentioned and ammo will be readily available. You will never be able to appreciate the full capabilities of a nice rifle like this without a scope, however if you are dead set on no scope, you should at least install a quality adjustable peep sight.

If you are wanting to shoot coyotes just for fun, the above rifle will do the trick. If your intent is to harvest the fur it will do too much damage. A smaller caliber such as a .223 would be much better and could also be purchased in the Remington 700 platform.

Hang on to your 12ga, and get yourself a good .22 rimfire if you don't already have one and all bases should be covered.


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## dltasig7 (Feb 5, 2015)

Fishindude said:


> Hard to beat the Remington 700 BDL or ADL with walnut stock and blued finish. A .270, .308 or 30-06 will easily handle all of the large game you've mentioned and ammo will be readily available. You will never be able to appreciate the full capabilities of a nice rifle like this without a scope, however if you are dead set on no scope, you should at least install a quality adjustable peep sight.
> 
> If you are wanting to shoot coyotes just for fun, the above rifle will do the trick. If your intent is to harvest the fur it will do too much damage. A smaller caliber such as a .223 would be much better and could also be purchased in the Remington 700 platform.
> 
> Hang on to your 12ga, and get yourself a good .22 rimfire if you don't already have one and all bases should be covered.



Thanks Fishindude! I have a Ruger 10/22! I wish I'd inherited my dad's Remington .22 pump! In my NY woods or in VT, it's very unlikely that one would get a clean, _safe_ shot with a rifle past 100 yards due to vegetation and trees (unless it's across a field.) but I'll keep an open mind to the scope. Is there another rifle and/or caliber that would go in a revolver too? .45? Is that readily available?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

A 308 will do everything you want a rifle to do, and the 30 cal gives you a wide range of bullet weights.

My second choice would be a 7mm/08.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Coyotes, deer and Bear can be hunted with success with a 243. Bullet weights from 70 to 100 grain. I reload for my Remington 700 243 85gr HPBT Serra game king bullets.
With the right bullet you can sew the smallish hole in a Coyote shot with a 243 and sell the hides. I also inherited my dads Rugar 77 tang saftey in 243. My brother owns a Winchester Model 70 in 243.

As for the Winchester 94 you don't have a bunch of choices as for caliber, 30-30 32 winchester special and the 307.
A Marlin 336 you can get the 35 Remington, 45 70 a big bore works well on moose.

Even the lever action Savage 99 will give you a choice up to 284, 308, 358 win. and the 375.

I can see a Hawkins BP rifle but would not limit my self to a 50 cal, plenty of used ones on the market in 54 cal.

I also would keep a open mind on a scope for when your eyes start going south and you start wearing glasses. I have a peep sight on My T/C hawkins that still works for arounf 50 yard shots.
a Lyman # 2 peep site also works for the Win. 94 in 32 Special.

Any thing over 50 yards I will not take the shot unless I am equiped with a scope.
My Remington Model 7 is equiped with a Pentex light seeker 2x7. works well.
My Remington 870 Slugger shot gun wears a Bushnell 2x5 dusk to dawn. both work well at over 100 yards.

 Al


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## crehberg (Mar 16, 2008)

dltasig7 said:


> Thanks Fishindude! I have a Ruger 10/22! I wish I'd inherited my dad's Remington .22 pump! In my NY woods or in VT, it's very unlikely that one would get a clean, _safe_ shot with a rifle past 100 yards due to vegetation and trees (unless it's across a field.) but I'll keep an open mind to the scope. Is there another rifle and/or caliber that would go in a revolver too? .45? Is that readily available?


Personally, I like the Henry Big Boy

https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/big-boy/

Available in 44 mag, 357, and even 45 Colt. Never had the chance to own one, but have shot them before (thank goodness for friends with money). Keep an eye open, around here you can often find one after Christmas where someone has decided to "upgrade" to a semi auto.


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## oceantoad (May 21, 2009)

I have Rossi lever actions in 357, 44, and 45LC. have never shot a critter with one, have other stuff for that. Have the stainless 357 for coyotes or dogs. Would use it our small deer down here, not sure about your big deer. Extra barrel length does give it more umph. All are pistol calibers. Someone out there has more knowledge on the pistol calibers in a long gun.


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## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

My personal favorite is a REM 700 bdl synthetic stock 270 cal 150 gr bullet with handloads it puts 5 shot groups at 150 yards that you can cover with a dime and it will take down any large game in the US.Factory ammo is easy to find and it has almost no recoil so you wont flinch at the shot.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

I can only speak to my own experience. I picked 30-06 caliber because of the availability and versatility of ammo. You can get loads with 110 grain bullets for prairie dogs all the way up to 220 grain for grizzlies (and mother-in-laws). You can buy ammo at any hardware. 

I mostly shoot 165 gr. BTSP bullets hand loaded a bit less than max. You can find the most accurate cartridge for your rifle, especially if you hand load. This cartridge kicks about the same as my 12 ga. 870 with 3 inch shells.

I bought a Remington 7400 semiauto with plastic stock and forearm because it was cheap. It's functional but not very pretty. When I was feeling flush I found a Browning A-bolt Medallion in a pawn shop for $500. 
https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/rifles/a-bolt/current-production/a-bolt-medallion.html
This is a beautiful gun with a high gloss black walnut stock, rosewood caps on the grip and fore end, blued metal, and engraving. It is also extremely accurate, the best of both worlds.

Be certain whatever you buy has a way to mount a scope. You may get to an age where you can't use open sights.

It would be cool to have a rifle that used the same rounds as my 357 but I'm not sure what I'd use it for.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

if your looking for a one does it all reasonably well 308 and done.

we could go on an on about 308 vs 30-06 but at a hunting range of 250 yards or less the difference is less than the width of your finger in trajectory and so close in energy that nothing will notice.

don't worry about different loads for different critters , pick a 165gr or 180gr load that your gun shoots well and learn it either will take white tail or black bear , maybe lean 180 for moose. again trajectory is a minor difference at a range of 0-250 yards

if you later get into varmint hunting then you will probably want a more fur friendly round but if you just want them dead 308 will do just fine.

bolt action sounds like your speed I would mount a rear peep site if your not much of a fan of optics it extends the sight radius Williams makes some good options. also a nice front sight post I have some with the globe covered front post that I like the sight picture of.

although you should look thru a good 2-7x32 scope Nikon and vortex have decent ones as does leopold 2-7 power is so handy leave it on 2x it helps with light gathering for low light shots and can get your range out to 250 yards easy enough I have taken my 2-7x32 to 420 yards easy enough on targets I don't shoot game that far

if you can get a threaded muzzle , do, with my 308 and 180 BTSP load I can watch the impact through the scope the muzzle brake takes about 50-60% of the recoil out.
my 308 is putting easily deer, bear or moose power down range and it doesn't beat me up much less recoil than my 12ga with slugs.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

270 is my preferred long distance round, but honestly, I haven't heard any here that wouldn't do a satisfactory job.
Thing is, the minutia can be talked about for as long as folks like, but most of the fingers typing and the eyes reading these posts are well past the days where they'll make much difference with one cartridge over the other.


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

I've shot a .270 for 50 years with good luck. Longest recorded kill was 650 yrds. For a brush gun I use my Marlin 30-30.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

The .308 or 30-06. Both will meet your needs for big game.

The .243 for the rest. I can hunt flies with 85 gr. BTHP. It' incredible accuracy really requires a scope in order to shine.


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## Esteban29304 (Apr 29, 2003)

I like the 30-06 for bigger game, & .243 for others, too. I recently took a Coyote with a powerful pellet rifle.

As far as lever action , I like a Marlin 336 , better than a Winchester 94. I don't care for 30-30 caliber & would rather have .35, even though amo is harder to find.


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

How about a Mosin 7.62 X 54? Cheap to own. cheap surplus ammo and accurate to 600 yards.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Never saw a Mosin that did not fire moment of barn door.


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## Grafton County Couple (Sep 20, 2018)

Good luck with your search.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Not a fan of most lever guns for hunting, although the are "cool" if you like cowboy movies, etc. Most of them are pretty short range weapons and not very accurate.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Fishindude said:


> Not a fan of most lever guns for hunting, although the are "cool" if you like cowboy movies, etc. Most of them are pretty* short range weapons* and not very accurate.


That's all one needs if hunting in wooded areas.
With good loads and lots of practice they are capable of making clean kills out to 200 yards, although most are best at 100 or less, depending on the size of the game.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Fishindude said:


> Not a fan of most lever guns for hunting, although the are "cool" if you like cowboy movies, etc. Most of them are pretty short range weapons and not very accurate.


My son barrowed a Marlin 336 30/30 from a friend. Had a 3x9 scope on it and with 170gr. federals it was butt smoking accurate. I shot at dots the size of a nickle and he was hitting them at 100yds.
Very, very impressed.


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

Fishindude said:


> Not a fan of most lever guns for hunting, although the are "cool" if you like cowboy movies, etc. Most of them are pretty short range weapons and not very accurate.


I also disagree. I've dropped more deer over the years with my old Marlin rifle than anything else. With the right loads or reloads you can reach out. Open sights make for faster shooting with practice. I've even shown people how to bark a squirrel with it. Shoot an inch under him and the concussion will kill him without losing any meat.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

What's your terrain look like?

Cool part about my Army career (besides the pension) is that I got to deer hunt across the country. One thing I learned is that terrain dictates, and that every rifle set-up (gun & optic) is a compromise when it's out of it's habitat. I now have a rack of big game rifles....

East coast where I grew up, lever actions & pumps work well.
KS where I am now, it's wooded to 400+ yards across farm fields
West coast up around WA it was wooded to clear cuts

I could mitigate the effects some by reloading a decent bonded bullet for woods hunting with a HV round, but it still had the potential to waste a chitload of meat depending on the hit. Last 3 deer I've killed here (western KS) two were just shy of 300y and the 3rd was a little under 400y. Nostalgia is great, but toting a 30-30 in open country is optimistic.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

A few of mine shot with my Marlin 336 in .30-30 caliber. Its a great lightweight rifle (and caliber) for hunting in timber and brush.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

My sister had a Savage model 99D in 308. when she passed a nephew got it. very accrite and the 308 worked as well in it as a bolt rifle did.

My dad had a winchester model 88 in 284 very accrite rifle and the bolt lock up was as solid as a bolt action. It was sold in 308 also 358 and 243.

Scopes were mounted on both useing factory drill and tapped holes.

 Al


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Chuck R. said:


> *East coast* where I grew up, lever actions & pumps work well.
> KS where I am now, it's wooded to 400+ yards across farm fields


We have swamps where you're lucky to see 100 feet, and open Soybean and Wheat fields that are *miles* across. There's something for everyone and every method of hunting.


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

Somewhere I have a handloaded box of 30-30. Warmed up to 2600FPS with a 115 grain bullet. Flat out shooter to 200 yards plus. I once dropped a deer at around 250 yards running. The guy I was with said it was not possible even though he stood there and watched me. Open sights. I've also missed easy shots with a scope.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> We have swamps where you're lucky to see 100 feet, and open Soybean and Wheat fields that are *miles* across. *There's something for everyone and every method of hunting*.


Very, very, true, which is why I always hesitate to recommend a rifle/caliber and how i ended up with a rack full of guns. 

Last few years I've been hunting western KS, chasing mulies. Terrain is slightly different than here in eastern KS and more importantly we predominately spot and stalk. On average been hiking in 1/2-1 mile. I used a .300 win this past season to take a 5x4, due to breaking my .270W. Do not want to end up carrying that rifle around again. My normal deer rifle is a Steyr Mannlicher Professional model with a 2.2-9x steel Swarovski scope, very accurate, but pretty heavy combination. 

So now I'm putting together a lightweight combo. Ordered a Leupold VX-6HD 2-12X last night and am looking hard at a Tikka T3X Superlite. Scope comes in at 16.8 oz, rifle at 5.8 lbs, so i should be able to keep the loaded combo to just under 7lbs.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

That Tikka should be a fun toy.
I like light weight rifles for walking around.
A couple of my favorite models are a Browning Micro Medallion and a Remington Model 7.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

I've got a couple MOD7s, .260REM and a .350Mag.

Really are very good rifles. My only dislikes are the mag lengths as they inhibit seating bullets out. Not really a deal breaker and the MOD 7 would be my choice for a woods gun (the .350 excels at this). I'm ordering a new stock for the .260 next month as i think I can eek more out of it accuracy wise, and the factory molded stock sucks. My .350 on the other hand is a custom shop model with the full mannlicher stock and is a suprisngly accurate gun:










I've read a lot of Tikka reviews, especially when it comes to accuracy. I think it's a great combination of accuracy & lightweight that will be tough to beat without a significantly higher cash outlay. So we'll see......


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

Chuck R. said:


> I've got a couple MOD7s, .260REM and a .350Mag.
> 
> Really are very good rifles. My only dislikes are the mag lengths as they inhibit seating bullets out. Not really a deal breaker and the MOD 7 would be my choice for a woods gun (the .350 excels at this). I'm ordering a new stock for the .260 next month as i think I can eek more out of it accuracy wise, and the factory molded stock sucks. My .350 on the other hand is a custom shop model with the full mannlicher stock and is a suprisngly accurate gun:
> 
> ...


Chuck,

Take a look at the Weatherby Vanguard Series 2. It has a two stage match trigger and is guaranteed sub MOA with premium ammo. Mine is sweet.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

diamondtim said:


> It has a two stage match trigger and is guaranteed sub MOA with premium ammo.


Most rifles sold today will do sub MOA once you find the right loads.
Weatherby gives a "guarantee" but the rest have been as capable for about 40 years now.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

My son bought my nephews Weatherby Vanguard 2.
The more I am around that rifle the more I am impressed.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

The best thing about Weatherby are the Weatherby cartridges. They are all smoking hot, high speed rounds.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

diamondtim said:


> Chuck,
> 
> Take a look at the Weatherby Vanguard Series 2. It has a two stage match trigger and is guaranteed sub MOA with premium ammo. Mine is sweet.


I've looked at them, nice rifle, but a little on the heavy side @ 7.4lbs for what I'm looking for. IF I break the 7lb mark I've going to go ahead and get a Nosler M48 Liberty. Trying to stay at 6-6.5 range, which is why I'm looking hard at the Tikka's.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Range is, to me the biggest factor.
I shot a lot of deer at 100 yards, mostly while on the run, with a Marlin 336,35 caliber.
I had a Ruger 44 Carbine that could knock a big hole in a deer at 50 yards.
But for long range shots, they suck.
For those long range shots, I bought a Browning Medallion, with the BOSS on the barrel end. It is a 7MM Mag and has a Leopold 9 to 12 scope. Handy on a field edge, but unwieldy in wooded shoot on the fly situations. Plus that BOSS reduces recoil by blowing the noise back at me. But I won't shoot beyond 250 yards.
I have a friend that has a bolt action pistol with custom 30.06 bullets and a nice scope. I was able to make a nice 3 inch group at 200 yards.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Fishindude said:


> The best thing about Weatherby are the Weatherby cartridges. They are all smoking hot, high speed rounds.


Vanguards come in standard cartridges.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

Fishindude said:


> The best thing about Weatherby are the Weatherby cartridges. They are all smoking hot, high speed rounds.


I've already got a .300W, and an 8x68S (European 8mm Mag) in addition to the .350 (not really a mag, more of a compact .35Whelen). IF I was going to go for another magnum, I'd look hard at one of the newer ones based on the .404 case. You get to skip the useless belt, and use brass at that diameter. .404 jeffery base is .545 and the .375 H&H (Weatherby parent case) base is .513, but the .375 H&H belt is .534, so you've got some wasted diameter with the .375 based cases due to the belts.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Chuck R. said:


> ... IF I was going to go for another magnum, I'd look hard at one of the newer ones based on the .404 case. You get to skip the useless belt, and use brass at that diameter. .404 jeffery base is .545 and the .375 H&H (Weatherby parent case) base is .513, but the .375 H&H belt is .534, so you've got some wasted diameter with the .375 based cases due to the belts.


This x100. 

Belted magnums are silly. That said, I’m so invested in .300 WM that it’s my default magnum cartridge. The belt does nothing for you except stunt case capacity, and it doesn’t really simplify headspace measurement like it’s supposed to. Any decent rifle builder is going to check both shoulder and belt, and most production reamers even have separate belt cutters. 


When I was building rifles full time, I had no problem trying any new chamber that came along, but my sensibilities have changed over the years, and I won’t really consider a new cartridge unless I’m willing to stock 5-10k rounds for it- that has me mostly running type-classified cartridges now. 

I’ve got two 338LMs and a 338 Norma, and a couple k rounds of each, but I don’t have a lot of use for either. I’ve been watching the Lapua/Norma wars to see which would take history, and sell out of the other, but it’s looking more and more like PRC may swoop in and steal the .30 thunder. If it does, I don’t think a .338 PRC will be too far behind.


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

I've gotta say im sad your held to a couple of rifles....every man NEEDS several...
BUT if i were in your shoes...id say a good 22lr, and a Rem 70p ADL/BDL, chambered in 30/06 with 3 quick disconnect scopes sighted in with 55gr Accelerators, one sxope for 150gr, 1 scoe for 225gr, ill leave the actual bullet debate for later ... remember alot of small shops, hardware stores ect carry 06 ammo


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

Chuck R. said:


> I've looked at them, nice rifle, but a little on the heavy side @ 7.4lbs for what I'm looking for. IF I break the 7lb mark I've going to go ahead and get a Nosler M48 Liberty. Trying to stay at 6-6.5 range, which is why I'm looking hard at the Tikka's.


Those Finns know how to build a rifle.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

for a light rifle , the Kimber 84M sure feels nice in hand , I have never fired one but definitely a nice light rifle to carry much shoot when needed.

worth looking into 

I would go with a threaded muzzle , add a muzzle brake a bit more noise for 50% less recoil , it adds options and protects the crown


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