# Banding horns photo tutorial



## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

Cookie has figured out how to use her horns to pry the gate apart and pop welds on wire fence. We're supposed to have 2 weeks of cold weather and I'll be home to keep an eye on her so the horns got banded today. I figured I would document my process for posterity.

Ideally you would have one of these. It's a wood burning pen with a sharp edge that works great for cutting and consequently making a nice clean, deep groove at the base of the horn in a much shorter amount of time than using a file. Plug it in and let it get hot enough to touch a piece of wood and make a mark.









I like to shave away the hair at the base of the horns so I can see exactly where to burn the groove. Cookie is not cooperative with her head so I had to tie her head to the head gate. Make the groove deeper at the back and front because that's where the band is most likely to roll upward.









This is user preference, but I like to do the front and back first. Once they realize what you're doing they get rowdier as you go and doing the sides is relatively easy so I save them for last. You can sort of see where the groove is in this picture. Notice that it is down in the hairline. This is another reason I prefer the pen. It cauterizes as you go. The farther down you can get, the less chance of scurs. Using a file down in the hair would make them bleed.









Again user preference. I find it easier to get up on the stand and straddle the goat. That way I can use my legs to pull their shoulders back so I can pin their head firmly against the head gate for minimum movement.









Be careful. It hurts when they manage to pinch your arm between their horn and the head gate. Doing the back of their horns would be much easier with a helper to hold their head. No worries, it doesn't look like this now.









Roll the band down into the groove. Double check to make sure it is seated in there firmly by trying to roll it back up. If it rolls out of the groove easily you need to make it deeper otherwise the goat will probably get it off by rubbing it on things. My grooves are about 1/4 in deep at the front and back.









Endure dirty looks from the goat. Give them their favorite treat (Cookie likes Cheetos and fishy crackers) and tell them what a good goat they are and how wonderful it will be to be allowed in with all the hornless goats. They do after all have better food and sleeping accommodations according to the goat.


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## gunsmithgirl (Sep 28, 2003)

I hope yours turns out better than mine did. i have never banded before and last year my disbudding iron died....has a saanen wether that I tried the banding on. Stinking horns fell off and grew right back in. Good thing he was a meat goat and freezer bound anyhow because I would've been too embarrassed to sell him...

Hoping yours goes better than my experiment did!


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

I have banded the horns of 6 goats, 3 of which were mine, and the scurs of a friend's buck. There are scurs, but they are thick and blunt--like the entire horn was sanded down against their head. The ones I did 3 years ago don't even break the skin, so they look hornless, and feel hornless except they have a bumpier head than a goat that was disbudded correctly. The trick is to get underneath the base of the horn where the keratin stops. You can feel it. On some goats it is a very slight bump, on others it is really obvious. On some it is right below the hairline and others down even further. 

Cold also makes a difference. Cold horns have less blood so they grow slower allowing the band to roll underneath the base faster than it can grow. I wouldn't even think about starting this if it was going to be hot, but our crazy Wyoming weather has been around or below 30*F. If it does get hot again, I plan to tape some little elcheapo ice packs to her horns to keep them cool.


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

I promised an update....I was spraying Blue Kote on her horns trying not to touch them, but she butted my arm and knocked one loose.

This is why disbudding is preferable. There is about as much blood as a bad nosebleed. Doing this in the fall when I had planned to probably would have resulted in less blood but like I said, she was being destructive of my fences with them.

The wound looks good. There is flesh and bone covering her sinus cavity (I'm not positive, but I think surgical dehorning or sawing them off leaves a soft spot) and the hole the blood is coming from is only the size of a grain of rice and should scab over easily.


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

And from the front so you can see what her horn is doing


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

After dinner I had my husband help me hold her and put some cayenne pepper on it. It helps stop bleeding and speeds healing, so I out it on all wounds no matter the species. She ended up throwing her horn at him. LOL. It looks even better this evening. All the blood that was running down her ear earlier today was dried and she just had a little blob of fresh blood. It should be scabbed over by tomorrow.

I didn't take a picture of this because holding her and applying the powder without touching her other horn (that is probably almost ready to come loose too) required 3 hands holding her head while sitting on her. She is STRONG! I didn't want to put her in the stand because I would rather not knock the other horn loose if I can help it.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

I just banded a pygmy doe a couple of days ago. I have done quite a few & always had good luck with them. Only once did I have one knock it loose before it should have. It turned out OK anyway.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Great tutorial Squeaky. Thank you


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

The other one fell off on Friday. Cookie let me handle her today and even got on the stand without throwing a big tantrum so her dislike of me was clearly related to the headache she probably had. I definitely won't be banding horns in summer ever again unless it's really needed. The cold must have had an analgesic effect for the others I did. They weren't head shy until 3-7 days before their horns came off.

I can tell Cookie is feeling better. I walked her around front to visit her wether friends and she was all too happy to let them know that she was still their queen. I'm going to give it another week or so before I wash her head. I'll post a finished picture when she's all healed up.


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

And just because she looks so pretty now that the shave I gave her has grown out a bit


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Because of your excellent cataloging of this venture I am no longer afraid to say yes to a good goat just because the previous owner failed to disbud. I think I could do this.

Thanks for posting!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2014)

CraterCove said:


> Because of your excellent cataloging of this venture I am no longer afraid to say yes to a good goat just because the previous owner failed to disbud. I think I could do this.
> 
> Thanks for posting!


That's the spirit! Just because you don't like horns and someone else does, doesn't mean you can't still like their animals and consider one for your own herd. You would just renovate their head:goodjob:

Same animal, different look.


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## mrs whodunit (Feb 3, 2012)

I have banded numerous goats during my years. Its always worked well.

Never used a wood pen, have used a chainsaw file to put in a couple of groves to hold the band.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Grooves in horn or grooves below the skin level? I seem to recall someone using a carpet knife or something to make a shallow cut below the skin level on horns, which the band was placed in. It didn't bleed that much at all, and the band stayed in place really well as it 'sunk in' to the skin and may have been just painful enough for them to try rubbing the bands off.


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

Squeaky McMurdo said:


> The trick is to get underneath the base of the horn where the keratin stops. You can feel it. On some goats it is a very slight bump, on others it is really obvious. On some it is right below the hairline and others down even further.


Cookie's wasn't very far below her hairline. It looks like Boer goats' are much farther down. I think I know the person you are referring to. They have a website showing how they do their Boer goats. I tried the carpet knife thing with Lily but she screamed bloody murder and I couldn't get the band down that far, so I abandoned that idea. I used a chainsaw file on her and Cocoa and didn't get down as far as I would have liked. I came up with the wood pen idea when I did an 8 week NDG doeling. All I had to do was draw a line around her horns which only took a few minutes and I figured that the faster I could make a groove the less traumatizing it would be.


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## punchiepal (Oct 11, 2008)

How old is Cookie? We have a couple of "horned ones" remain from the pre-disbudding days. hummmm


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## mrs whodunit (Feb 3, 2012)

mygoat said:


> Grooves in horn or grooves below the skin level? I seem to recall someone using a carpet knife or something to make a shallow cut below the skin level on horns, which the band was placed in. It didn't bleed that much at all, and the band stayed in place really well as it 'sunk in' to the skin and may have been just painful enough for them to try rubbing the bands off.


I put a groove in right at where the horn goes into skin.
If it a young goat often time the horn is soft enough down at skin level I dont need a grove.


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

punchiepal said:


> How old is Cookie? We have a couple of "horned ones" remain from the pre-disbudding days. hummmm


I'm not sure. The wethers she came with are a year old so I figure she is somewhere in that ballpark. Looking at the Fiasco Farms teeth age chart and attempting to look in her mouth it looks like she is about 2.


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## punchiepal (Oct 11, 2008)

Humm older than my girls. The 6yo is ok but at least 1 of the 2 4yo's...I would like to get rid of hers.


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

Finished picture as promised. She has been healed for a while now. She's still a bit head shy but not as much. She'll except a scratch behind the ears and under her chin, but doesn't like it when I use both hands or touch her poll. She jumps up in the stand just fine though so I don't think it is that big of an issue.


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## gonetothegoatz (Sep 14, 2015)

How many days does it usually take for horns that are about the size of your thumb to fall off?


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

You did a great job explaining how to do the job, and I thank you!


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

I have found that it takes about a month no matter how big the horns. The smaller the horns, the smaller the blood vessel that runs through it, the less bleeding.

I now sing the praises of the wood burning pen to make the groove for this. I can get the band down a lot farther and Cookie has no scurs at all over a year later.


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

Hiya goat friends. Bumping this up for someone that asked. :rock:


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## WildernesFamily (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks for this, I have one goat who is a terror with her horns against the disbudded does.


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