# When to expose LGD Pups to small stock?



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

I have some puppies out of my working Pyr mix by the Akita next door (believe me, it wasn't MY choice in the breeding, or her escaping to go on a moonlit date.)
I understand Akita blood is not the most ideal for being around stock, but the father dog has visited our farm before and was nicely indifferent about my animals, so I've got hope that they may turn out well for farm guardians. Especially since they have a lot of bark in them, and they are really good sized. 

They've been raised in the house, and I've just started letting them out of the whelping box to toddle around the house and get socialized. They're not even on food yet. 

I'd like to get them exposed to poultry and goats at the proper time so they get desensitized to them rather than want to play with them (and end up hurting them-- which can happen even with pure LGD dogs with great work genetics, but pups are pups and they don't know the chicken can't play like a dog.) 
If someone with experience in this area has suggestions on proper age (and training methods) I'd really appreciate it. We have a major deficit of working LGD in our area and they've got great prospects if I can take notes on behavior and place them in well matched homes.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

You have until they are 16 weeks old to expose them to new friends and accept them as such.

So, you can have them outside, around the house and let them see songbirds, trees, leaves falling, normal stuff. A puppy's onset of fear begins from the sixth to eighth week. So, I'd let them see the goats and poultry just prior to six weeks, but make sure there is no way they can get to each other so that they do not have a bad association with them. You then want easy associations with people and other pets, cars, grass, and so on, which you are doing now. 

If you can bring them outside and they are investigating, it is a good time to put them in the back seat of a car for a few minutes at a time. Around six weeks old you can begin directing them by pointing (point at food dish, for instance, point at door to go outside, etc.) By eight weeks you can work on sit (sit before dinner, everybody sit before dinner, sit at doors,...). you can can expose them everyday to the goats and poultry if that is convenient for you. Expose, not interact with. They can see the animals but not chase them. This is where a good sit comes in, because you should be able to tell a puppy sit and have him sit instead of getting pecked. It might even be a good idea to take a couple of puppies to a friend with horses so they can be exposed to horses, ditto with sheep. Keeping in mind that the people who first developed LGD's kept the humans, dogs, livestock, and puppies in close proximity, you can't really be wrong by a day or two, and you can't really overexpose them. But, you need to supervise.

Most people put some sheep or goats in a pen and have a hole big enough for the puppy to get through, but not livestock. This way, the puppy can escape them by running into a small room or a barn. The puppy would be fed in his room or the barn, not with the sheep. This way, he does not compete with them for his food. You don't have to do this immediately, especially since you have exposed the puppies to goats and poultry, this is more what you'd do with a puppy who is no longer with his littermates and big enough to sleep on his own.

Given that you have a trained guardian in the form of their mother, you can play it by ear allowing one puppy at a time with its mother in with the goats. By sixteen weeks, you may be seeing typical hunting behavior, such as stalking and pouncing. LGD's have their hunting instincts kick in later than other dogs, and some of them never develop hunting instincts. Because their hunting instincts kick in later, they have already established that goats are their friends and they won't hunt them.

Some people do not do anything except put a puppy in a barn with the livestock and let nature take its course. I think it is important that a large breed puppy stay with its mother for at least twelve weeks, and that a human be able to interact with the dog and follow basic commands. It will also be easier for you to rehome them if they know sit, stay, and come, and to come to a whistle. It will be easier if they can ride in a car.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Sorry long winded. I'm sure others will have other things to say.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Well, as usual Maura has great information. It sounds as though you're attempting to prepare your pups for new homes; and I admire your making that effort. You've got your hands full with a full litter!


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Also note that all is not lost even after 16 weeks-- in our case we had chickens but didnt get goats til our pup was 18 weeks old (along with 2 adult dogs that have never lived with goats either, which didnt help)-- he along with the others initially alarm barked at them-- but we put them in a pen with an enclosed side (to give them hiding space) and now after 2 weeks the alarm barking has stopped and I can even let the goats out to graze and Pup has learned not to chase them and ignore them so he can keep his freedom ( I redirected him and put him on leash if he showed interest in chasing etc....
I know this is goats vs chickens, but just wanted to give you feedback. He has been out with the chickens since 8 weeks, he does very occasionally chase them for a few feet(he is a puppy, but nothing more then that- he plays alot with the big dogs)....


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## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Thanks Maura, thats the perfect advice I needed!


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Don't LGD breeders move mom outside at 2wks and they live full time back with the stock?
Mom should be stopping them from very early on and if you wait until 16wks, they will be hyper, fully mobile and very hard for mom to even attempt to control them. 
My Doberman puppy went out to meet his new family at 7wks, my LGD has been keeping him from bothering them. If I would of let him out now at 12wks, he would of been more crazy to chase the unknown animals.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

We aren't saying wait until 16 weeks. We are saying that because of the way the puppy brain develops, you need to expose them to livestock prior to 16 weeks.


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