# Rabbit hides rotting in salt/acid pickle!



## n9viw (Jan 30, 2005)

Hey all, hope you can help! Recently, I've had two batches of hides go bad, close to 20 hides! There's fur slip, there's stinky solution, there's friable (easily torn, like wet newspaper easy) hide, etc.

I use the IslandGems tanning solution: 1 lb salt per 1 gallon water and 4 oz battery acid, and typically mix up 2 gallons at a time. I have had success with it in the past, but for some reason the last couple batches just haven't worked out. Following the IG method, I simply pull the hides and freeze them, then WITHOUT fleshing or washing, thaw them and put them into solution. As I said, no problems up until recently.

After doing some research, I think I can track it down to a couple causes, and I'd appreciate some feedback on the following thoughts:

1) I have not washed the hides in anything prior to freezing or adding to solution. I don't know how tough bacteria is to kill, or how prevalent it is in the average hide. What's the best stuff to wash in? Dish detergent? Borax? Vinegar? Bleach? How much, and for how long?

2) In one of the most recent failed batches I put several 'green' (fresh, unfrozen) hides. Is there something to the freezing that prevents rotting? I've read it's good to break up the fibers a bit and make it easier to flesh, but other than that, is it absolutely necessary? If so, how do you freeze huge hides like deer and cow?

3) Following the IG method, I do NOT flesh the hides before putting them in solution, but rather after two weeks of them in solution. Well, my most recent batch didn't even make it a week before deteriorating, and I lost close to 10 hides, to fur slip and/or hide separation. And they STANK, oh lord! I had to wash my hands a dozen times before they stopped reeking of the hides I took out. Should I be fleshing them prior to freezing, or at least prior to solution? What's the best method, without tearing the hide? Can o worms, sorry... what's a GOOD method, what works for you?

4) I've been putting in upwards of a dozen hides in 2 gallons of solution... something tells me maybe I'm overloading the solution. Should I make more solution, or put fewer hides in, or should the solution be able to handle it?

Looking forward to getting some help, I'm losing these things hand over fist here!

Thanks,
Nick


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> how do you freeze huge hides like deer and cow?


You salt them, and then fold them with the skin sides touching, but I doubt freezing is really necessary


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

There was a discussion of tanning hides on another list recently and someone mentioned that temperatures of 70 degrees and over could cause a problem.

I've not done any tanning for years ... and what little I did years ago was in Montana in the fall, so warm temperatures were definitely not a problem so I don't know if that could be one of the issues or not. It was just mentioned as something to be aware of ...


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## n9viw (Jan 30, 2005)

@SFM: Would you happen to have a link to that other discussion? It would be much appreciated, particularly if I can keep the hides from the next set (due up for camp in 2 weeks) from following the same problem!

@Bearfootfarm: I've tried salting the hides, and it's a messy and time-consuming process... I had several that were still 'sweating' after four days! I finally broke down and rinsed them, then froze them. I imagine salting is about the only thing one CAN do with a large hide, unless you have access to a meat locker or similar.

Thanks for the replies, I'm hoping some others might jump in here with definitive commentary on what I'm (obviously) doing wrong! 

Nick


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

I was a taxidermist before I became physically disabled.

First hides should be fleshed and scraped! Then frozen without salt! They will last indefinitely frozen as long as they dont freezer burn.

Go to Van ***** Taxidermy supply website and buy a good, safe pickling solution!! They also have instructions there on how to properly do hides.
No need for such nasty things as battery acid!

With proper fleshing, pickling and tanning you can have garment quality hides with hair on or off.


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## Kyah (Oct 29, 2007)

Hi n9viw, 
It sounds like a pickle problem for sure. I tried a few different methods this winter, and in the end I sent away for a tanning kit. I ordered the one that was most environmentally friendly and gives a washable hide. It comes with a small bottle of pickling acid. It worked really well, and was very easy to use. 

Fur slipping usually happens because the pickle's ph is off, (must be quite low to work) or the fur was improperly handled/frozen before pickling. It can also be caused by improper neutralization. 

Here's a few things I learned: 
Allow the raw pelt to cool before freezing. Lay it out and allow all the heat to dissapate before freezing it. I didn't flesh mine before I froze them, and they can be _insanely_ hard to flesh that way. I left mine in the pickle for 2 days, fleshed, then returned to the pickle for another 24 hours or so. 

You can get fur slip from thawing too. For example if you try to thaw the pelts in warm or hot water. (Ask me how I know, lol) Thawing in cold water works ok, though. 

Yes, temperature is important too. I've not tried the battery acid pickle though, so I'm not sure what the optimum temp should be. 

Good luck to you. It sure can be challenging for sure, but hang in there, it'll get easier. =)

Kyah

Edited to add: Yes, try to make sure there is sufficient pickle for the amount of skins in the container. Don't want em' too crowded in there.


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## arachyd (Feb 1, 2009)

Here's another plug for Van *****. It's a good company and I've been using their products for many years. I'd say you are definitely overloading your solution. Put in too many and the acid pickle may not stay acid enough for as long as needed. The skins also need to be able to float loosely not bunched up. Wherever you have folds of skin touching bacteria can build up because it is protected from exposure to the acid. You don't mention stirring but it is essential to stir the hides regularly to avoid any folds getting insufficient exposure to the acid pickle. Fleshing both before the acid pickle and after (to get any bits loosened by the acid) is a very important step in the process as even a tiny bit of meat or fat can shield bacteria.


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## n9viw (Jan 30, 2005)

Thank you all for responding. Part of the reason I decided to go with the salt-acid pickle is because I already had everything I needed. Also, I'd tried it a couple times, and it worked just fine, but I only had maybe five or six hides in each time. And no, I didn't stir- IslandGems says SPECIFICALLY to NOT stir, but everyone else has said to stir, so stir I will!

I'll have to get a hygrometer to measure the pH, so I can check that. I haven't seen conclusive info on what sort of pH I'm looking for, particularly for this method, so it'll have to be trial and error. I will, however, be sure to make enough solution to keep everything floaty!

Pony! just said we could at least try some form of store-bought pickle. I don't want to dye the hides, so I don't think an actual TANNING solution is what I want. I'm intrigued by having a washable hide, though- that'd be nice should we make pillow covers or something, we could wipe them with a wet cloth and not worry about them. So, if you have a favorite that won't discolor rabbit hides, I'm all ears! (eyes, whatever)

Thanks again,
Nick


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## arachyd (Feb 1, 2009)

Stir gently. You want to expose the entire hide to the acid pickle, not knock the hair loose. Not all tans change the color. Alum tanning leaves a nice, bright white skin color.


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## Kyah (Oct 29, 2007)

I will, however, be sure to make enough solution to keep everything floaty!

If the hides were exposed to air, they would go bad too. Did you use something to weigh them down in the bucket?


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## jil101ca (Jul 2, 2007)

I have never use battery acid, I use salt/alum. I only put 2/3 hides per gallon at a time. I have fleshed before and during the pickle process. The only time I had hair slip was when it was warm out. Less hides, some gentle stirring and keep in a cool place should sovle the problem.


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## arachyd (Feb 1, 2009)

You can weight them down but where the pressure is the hide may not plump up well. You would have to faithfully reposition the weight often so it doesn't block exposure to the acid pickle at the point it touches the hide for very long. I let mine float but I try to keep the hair side up so the flesh side is always in the solution. The flesh side is where most of the acid pickle is drawn into the hide but it is important for the skin/hair side to be pickled too..


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## strictlyagamble (Jun 22, 2009)

i have been a taxidermist since the 80's if you want to do this at home, you cant beat a kit available at most taxidermist supply companies, whether it be a LUTAN-F kit,or any newer method of tanning. the chemicals are less dangerouse to the environment and yourself. my 8 year old tanned a skin for a class project using a EZ-100 kit by Bruce Rittel and it still looks like a garment tanned skin he is now 22,start with a kit rabbit skins are small in comparrison to most taxidermy projects, you will get quite a few pounds of skin out of a kit.either of these are quality kits. easy instructions, be sure to buy litmus paper also and you are good to go.I would use the EZ-100 kit myself, after you get experience buy your ingredients individually to save cost. but you cant go wrong if you start out with fresh skins that have been double salted after fleshing! check out wasco supply they are a newbie friendly company.. goodluck


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