# Power to the Homestead



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

I) Alternatives do not provide "free energy for the rest of your life." They require maintenance & repair periodically. Batteries ($1000s ) every few years...Who pays for replacement of the system when a storm blows it away or crushes it?..Advocates always conveniently forget to include* Lost Investment Potential* in the calculation--Had you gone with grid power, you could have taken the $20K you spent on the alt system and invested it, earning an average of 5-10% each year. (That's $1-2,000--covers the monthly cost of grid juice and no worry about repairs, maintenance or replacement.)....Make that $30K+ if you include back-up. See (B) below.

B] This is a "belt AND suspenders" plan-- Why double your cost with a big genny set-up for only occasional use?-- If you're going to shell out the capital, use it. Forget the alt.

Advocates of alt power replacing the conventional grid always forget to include that cost of building and maintaining the back-up energy sources when they claim alt energy is cheaper than conventional.

Of course, you could cut cost considerably by conserving. That could apply for alt or conventional...Try living for a month with an Amish family to see if you like it.


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## Jealous Gypsy Homestead (Apr 22, 2020)

I have something to add. Watch out for solar companies like ecoworthy. They sent us a defective controller, so we double checked wiring etc. 3 weeks later they replaced it. The second one doesn't work either i even hired an electrician thinking it was us, but no. Hubby emailed support who said thats impossible. I told them that the electrician confirmed, they called my hubby a liar.Than they stopped responding just ignored us. I had to troll their social media for them to answer 2 weeks later telling me its out of warranty now go buy a new one. My kit costs thousands. I might have togo to court, we orderedi n may and still no electricity.... check bbb.org prior to any solar purchase these days, too much aggravation. Heres their complaint page Eco-Worthy Solar Technology Co. Ltd | Better Business Bureau® Profile


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

There are more articles coming, where I've had to put in a service on the homestead, because there is literally _nobody_ out in the rural areas to provide the service for us. 

DOC- makes some points that might warrant follow-up articles, such as:

*stay on-grid, or go off-grid?* In our case, as hinted at in the article, we were faced with two numbers ... a $30k ante to the power company, before any other costs, or a $12k ante for materials, and done. On the homestead, and according to my wife, my labor is "free". We believe that any other costs after those two biggies go into the "wash" column, where they are roughly the same over time. What isn't the same? We are "free" of ever-increasing electricity bills with endless add-on fees. This is priceless, to us.
*why "go big" on the genny?* We found that our power needs exceeded the little gennies every single day, and continue to do so to this day. Homesteads mean _many projects_, ongoing effort, lots of power.
*maintenance, backups?* We are indeed, our own utility service, and have to do these things. Just as someone might want a "backup" to the power grid (which, as we all know, never goes down), in the form of a standby generator, we also have backups, in the form of alternative generation if the big genny goes down. I think that makes it a wash between the two types of grids. It's definitely an attribute of homestead living, in rural areas, where you always want alternatives for any given scenario vs. hard stop down.
*on conservation.* we noticed something with homestead life; overall, consumption goes down. For example, in the city, we used 1000's of gallons of water per month, and we paid for it twice (once coming in as potable water, once going out as sewage). On the homestead, we use 500 gallons per month, and we pay a fraction of the cost for it, and we only pay once. I'll call this "PIY (provide it yourself) means you use less; PFY (provided for you) means you use more."
More comments from everyone means more articles are needed! Luckily, they pay me by the word on this forum ... right? Forum folks?


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

JGH, I couldn't agree more ... watch out for "service companies" who want to do the system for you; there's good ones and bad ones. We were left with ... DIY, from start to finish (the homestead effect, starts off with duct tape or baling wire). In the old days, you didn't build an onsite utility service. Now you can!


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

My case could be titled "power to the homestead on a budget". I started with raw land. My property is a mile from the nearest power pole. It's big bucks for the power company to run a line in. I started with the 3000 watt generator I had on hand because I bought it for Y2K so I could run the furnace in the house in the city if the power went down. Cost at this point zero. It has run all the tools I needed to build a barn and run the half horse power well pump I put on the driven well. Cost for the well and pump about $350. I had all the tools for construction already except the airless paint sprayer. Cost for it $200. 

Next electricity source was a solar system. I have two 100 watt panels, a PWM controller, and a marine deep cycle battery. I had the battery on hand for the boat so cost was $250 for solar. This little solar system provides lights in the camper and runs the 12 volt DC TV for a few hours a day. It also powers a DC transfer pump for the water system. Cost $80. I bought a 275 gallon tote for $50. I fill it with the well pump when the genny is running. The transfer pump takes water from the tote and supplies the shower and sink. I bought 8 feet of counter top, a deep double bowl stainless sink and a Moen faucet from the Re-use Center for $30. There is a battery ignited, propane fired, on demand hot water heater, cost $150, in the system so I have hot showers and hot water for washing dishes on demand without fireing up the genny. 

The propane system runs the hot water heater and an old propane refrigerator I had salvaged out of an old camper. I did buy a 100 pound tank that cost $100. I own the 250 gallon propane tank at my house and have the valve and hose to fill small tanks up to 100 pounds. I bring the 100 pound tank home when it needs filling and fill it from the big tank. It costs me $20 to fill it. I had the opportunity to splurge on a propane dryer for $20 from the Re-use Center so I bought this luxury. 

This is my current set up. I only use it in the summer but I'm almost ready to make a small apartment in the barn and move over there. The original plan was to build the barn then a cabin then move but I got too ambitious building the barn and ran out of funds. When I do move over there I am going to have to put in a bigger solar system because there is not as much sunlight in the summer so not as much battery charging and more use for lights. 

I didn't spend thousands on the propane fired, whole house, remote start genny. I didn't spend big bucks on a fancy solar system. Because of this I was able to build a barn which I needed instead of a shed while having most of the comforts of home. The next project is an outhouse. I have put it off because of the county rules and the cost for permits. I'm tired of pooping in a cat hole.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

Nimrod ... that's a fine barn!

We'll "bookend" these two approaches to getting power to the homestead. "All in", and "Minimalist by design", or something similar.

In my case, a family of four, three of the guilty parties wouldn't really understand why all the power they could ever consume isn't there when they flip a switch. They would laugh outright at any kind of electricity "budget or planning, times of operation", and such. They do, however, understand who to point a finger at ...

I've never seen so many hair dryers, electric curlers, kitchen mixers heavier than I am, and so on ... not to mention 100-amp microwave ovens and other high-draw appliances. Where _is_ that propane microwave oven? My "all in" system powers everything ... rarely does "the finger" come my way now, at least for electricity.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Thanks, 50 (if I may call you by your first name) for not taking offense at my response. I was pointing out things that the strong advocates of alternatives often forget.

To me, there's only two reasons to consider alt energy generation-- (1) as i your case, you're so far off grid that the capital expense of establishing it rivals the cost of alt. You may as well spend the money on the system that will give you "free energy" after the initial expense, and (B) for energy independence. This may be an important consideration when the welfare checks stop coming in the mail and society breaks down. Five yrs ago, people thought I was nuts for mentioning that. Today I seem wiser to them.

You point about the big vs small genny is well taken. If your system goes down for an extended period, your life style won't have to change. I guess it's like caching food-- you don't need much if you're only planning on one big snowstorm preventing you from getting to the store for two days. If you're planning on six months of civil war, you need a ware house full....Of course, in SHTF situation, you'll have trouble getting the fuel...Looked into wood gas DIY tech? Backyard Wood Powered Generator - Renewable Energy - MOTHER EARTH NEWS 

I purchased a PV system to run my well pump "just in case." I haven't got around to installing it yet. A relatively small unit, it doesn't add significantly to my costs of running the pump over 20 yrs but gives me security for a vital resource.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

DOC- ... this Mother Earth system seems the most complete gasifier system to date, and within our grasp to build. Nice!

One more item for the master plan ...


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## Esteban29304 (Apr 29, 2003)

A person needs to check EVERYTHING before they delve into living off grid ! Right up front, that would not work out for me.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

Esteban29304 ... did I miss anything in my article? Do you have some checklist items that I don't discuss, or that are required in your community? Or is my list too exhausting (too large, for say, small cabins)?

I've been pondering a way to package up a "small" version of what my article discusses, as in ... still "all-in", but a small version of everything, scaled down to a specific target. We are building a "tiny home" for our daughter(s), one of whom is reaching launch stage. As this isn't near our main home, I either stretch several hundred feet of extension cords, or consider a small separate system for that TH.

So, small propane tanks, small genny, small 12v (possibly 24v) system (panels, battery, inverter/mppt), all sized to go in/near a portable shed, and close enough to reasonably hook into the TH.


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## Jealous Gypsy Homestead (Apr 22, 2020)

We use a genny too for the time being its working well 




50ShadesOfDirt said:


> There are more articles coming, where I've had to put in a service on the homestead, because there is literally _nobody_ out in the rural areas to provide the service for us.
> 
> DOC- makes some points that might warrant follow-up articles, such as:
> 
> ...


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## Esteban29304 (Apr 29, 2003)

I wasn't knocking your ideas, just making a statement that I think is true. Prices, building codes, weather are just a few factors in living off grid. Where I live, the electricity is not expensive, but propane is.


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## Jealous Gypsy Homestead (Apr 22, 2020)

Esteban29304 said:


> I wasn't knocking your ideas, just making a statement that I think is true. Prices, building codes, weather are just a few factors in living off grid. Where I live, the electricity is not expensive, but propane is.


Oh no worries at all,you're completely right. Didnt take it as such. Every homestead is unique with different needs.


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