# Pasture grass ID



## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

Can someone help me identify this grass. It's a pale green with a burgundy seed head, then it opens up and the burgundy color goes.








[/IMG]








[/IMG]

The second pic is when the seed head is tight, then it opens up like in the first pic.

Thanks,
Carol K


----------



## Plowpoint (May 2, 2012)

It looks like Orchard Grass to me.

It really is hard to tell grass from a picture, but based on the color, and then based on the picture where the Timothy in the background is shorter in height then the grass in question; coupled with its long slender stem and early seeding; and adding in that you are located in New York...I would say that it is Orchard Grass.

If it is, you are very fortunate. As dairy/sheep farmers we sow our new hay fields, or fields in crop rotation from corn to grass fields, into a high percentage of orchard grass. It grows extremely fast in the cooler seasons of Spring and Fall, has a really high protein content level when harvested before it seeds out, has an extremely high yield (tonnage per acre) and is highly palatable to the sheep and cows. It can also take heavy trampling from grazing cows, sheep and horses, can be used as a "green manure" crop, and is even used in wildlife plots for quail, deer and turkey. We use it primarily because we do not feed our animals hay, but feed haylage, chopped up hay that is put into a huge clamp and ensiled for the winter. This it excels at.

Did I say this was a great type of grass? 

It has its limitations, and like alfalfa, it is not all that winter hardy. For that reason we would never plant an entire field of it, but rather mix it with alfalfa, reed canary grass, timothy and clover which spreads out the winter-kill risk, and gets some nitrogen fixation through those types of grass types...something Orchard Grass does not do. It also grows in "tuffs" or clumps which can make mowing with underpowered mowers a bit tough. 

I cannot say this enough, it is an excellent type of grass that excels at rotational grazing, particularly in the cooler states, and is an excellent feed, IF you harvest it early since it grows so fast, and seeds out quickly, if you can do that, then you get excellent palatbility for your livestock, and high protein levels. BUT, harvest it like regular hay which is later in the year, and you get stemmy grass which produces low protein, and sheep and cows just do not like it.

Still the pros far outweigh the cons. I love this type of grass.


----------



## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

I don't think this is orchard grass. It looks more like a fescue type to me. Check here:

Pasture Grasses Identified

If you have an agricultural extension agent, that person could certainly tell you. Or perhaps send a sample to Cornell?


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Two things it isn't! It is not orchard grass and it is not fescue.


----------



## Chixarecute (Nov 19, 2004)

IIRC, some of the main identifiers for grasses are:

stem - smooth or hairy?
hooks (ligules) where the blade separates from the stem?
shape of stem? round - if triangle, it is a sedge
Root system? sod (like blue grass) or bunch grass
seed head

There's probably more that I've forgotten. Here's a pic of orchard grass:

PLANTS Profile for Dactylis glomerata (orchardgrass) | USDA PLANTS


----------



## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Thanks for the helpful site in IDing grasses.

There are the photos further down of Canary Grass that are reddish, and also the Redtop grass, that could be what is shown. I guess you will have to pull the whole stem, to check the other ID points to narrow the name down.

We are having problems locally with Johnsongrass, which can contain high nitrate numbers when dried. It seems to be seeding quite actively around here.


----------



## Plowpoint (May 2, 2012)

I would not rule out Orchard Grass just yet.

If you do a Bing Image Search of Orchard Grass and there are a few photos like the ones the original poster has shown. I also went out this morning and took a few pictures of one of my fields and the Orchard Grass I have growing within it, and it looks identical.

Orchard Grass gets confused a lot with Reed Canary Grass which is very similar. I once had an agronomist walking through the very field my picture was taken in, point to some Orchard Grass and call it Reed Canary Grass. He is a very smart man, but this field is crop rotated every 7 years from corn to hay ground, and then back, so in that short amount of time there would not be time for Reed Canary Grass to take over. We would never put Reed Canary Grass in any of our sown grass fields because it is an evasive grass species here in the Northeast, so the grass in my photo anyway, is what we planted; it is indeed Orchard Grass.

Orchard Grass | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


----------



## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

I'm not too good at identifying grasses and plants from photos but looks very similar to Yorkshire Fog? Would need to see a better picture of the leaf.

Cheers,
Ronnie


----------



## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

it's not orchard or canary, if you have an agronomist confusing the 2 he is not very smart at all


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

This would be my best guess.
http://extension.entm.purdue.edu/caps/pestInfo/pics/big/reedCanaryGrass.jpg


----------



## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

I also think it looks a bit like Reed Canary but we'd need to see more of the whole plant.


----------



## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Looks like Johnson grass to me.


----------



## Karen in Alabam (Jul 21, 2010)

Wow, looking at all the choices of what that grass can be, I wonder if there is any hope of me figuring out one grass from another. I know they look different (3 years ago I would have said grass is grass), but I don't know one from another.


----------



## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

I'm pretty sure it's canary but it's hard to tell from the pics. How tall does it grow? Is the area it grows pretty wet?


----------



## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

LOl I'm glad I'm not the only one confused. 
I will get some more pics of the leaves. The field it is in was seeded to timothy last year, and this stuff has come up out of nowhere. However it seems to be in other areas also. I am on clay soil so it is quite wet at times. 
My first thought when searching was that it was canary grass, but could that seed have laid dormant that long? The more I look around the place the more I see of it. I will get pics of the leaves and maybe try and dig a plant up.
The seed head is very dark burgundy or purple in color and the leaves are almost a blue green.

Thanks for all the ideas.


----------



## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

yorkshire fog grass pictures - Bing Images


----------



## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

I just put more pics on photobucket.
Pictures by MidhillDexters - Photobucket

Looking at the pics from Topside and seeing Ronney mentioned it, I am off to read up on it, but sure does look similar.

Carol K


----------



## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

Well it sure looks and reads like it, I'm not happy! It sure looks invasive.

Carol K


----------



## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

My goats and cattle won't eat it, sure is pretty though...Topside


----------



## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

Topside have you tried to get rid of it at all? Any ideas? Anyone?

Carol K


----------



## Plowpoint (May 2, 2012)

To answer your question, grass seed will stay dormant in the soil for 50 years.

20 years ago when the paper industry was booming here in Maine, we converted some marginal and small fields into planted tree plantations. Then the computer systems hit and no one uses paper anymore. Now we are clearing those plantations back into forests. To get fields again, all we have to do is cut the trees. As soon as that dormant grass seed gets sun, it pops back up into pasture with grass that was sown down by my Grandfather in the 1970's. We know this because it is non-native grass types.


----------



## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Improve the quality of your soil and your problem will go away, providing it's yorkshire fog. The fog grows in moderately poor soil. The few patches of it that I have die off once air temperatures warm up. It's a spring growing grass. I'm sure your have been researching too. Topside.


----------



## Plowpoint (May 2, 2012)

It does not look like Yorkshire Fog to me. I have some of that too in places and in looking at the pictures again and again, it appears the Yorkshire Fog has grain that is much finer then the original poster's picture. Yorkshire Fog also looks much shorter then what is pictured.


----------



## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Ok plowpoint, so what type grass is it? And please do me a favor, it's not orchard grass....Topside


----------



## nosqrls (Jun 9, 2012)

That sounds like Johnson grass.
Johnsongrass


----------



## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Have to laugh at this thread. Clear as mud! I will say it is not Johnson grass. There's my contribution.


----------



## Plowpoint (May 2, 2012)

topside1 said:


> Ok plowpoint, so what type grass is it? And please do me a favor, it's not orchard grass....Topside


I would say it is Reed Canary Grass.


----------



## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Plowpoint, Yorkshire Fog is capable of growing up to 30" in height if left ungrazed and allowed to go to seed. 

I have small patches of this in wet areas and the cattle love it in the young stage and up until it starts to go to seed. After that they ignore it as they do most grasses that go to seed. If the ground dries out enough I will take the tractor and slasher in and mow it which will allow other grasses to come up through it. Left alone it becomes very clumpy.

I like to see it it hay and funnily enough the cows will pull a biscuit of hay apart to get at the Fog. There was a time when Yorkshire Fog was deliberately planted here as a meadow grass - and I can sort of see the reasoning behind this. On well fertilised and limed soil it would have been an annual or perennial grass, would have been grazed to control and when turned into hay, made very good hay. I guess that having to live with and control Kykuyu grass, I can be tolerant of other grasses that need the same sort of hard control.

Cheers,
Ronnie


----------



## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

We call that Blue Stem 'round these parts.
It's usually a later grass, so maybe a cooler-version relative?


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Plowpoint said:


> To answer your question, grass seed will stay dormant in the soil for 50 years.
> 
> 20 years ago when the paper industry was booming here in Maine, we converted some marginal and small fields into planted tree plantations. Then the computer systems hit and no one uses paper anymore. Now we are clearing those plantations back into forests. To get fields again, all we have to do is cut the trees. As soon as that dormant grass seed gets sun, it pops back up into pasture with grass that was sown down by my Grandfather in the 1970's. We know this because it is non-native grass types.


i'm amazed at the viability of weed seeds.
I plowed up a field that had been in timothy and other grasses for 50 years. I corrected the fertility and Ph. Planted a pure stand of alfalfa. The next spring, Yellow Rocket/Wild Mustard covered the field, nearly choking out the Alfalfa.
In the hay barn, chaff had laid there for 50 years. I thought I could use it to loosen the clay soil in my garden. As soon as the soil warmed up, I had a thick carpet of pure thistles. Live and learn.

Right now there is a new grass/weed that is popping up. Looks like timothy, but bigger, somewhat wider leaves. The head is like timothy, but not as smooth. Goes to seed before 1st cutting, so making hay just scatters the seeds. Livestock don't like it very well.

I don't know what variety you have, but if livestock don't like it, it is a weed and you must make every effort to cut it before seeds mature and kill the plants. Then keep after it for years to come. 

I believe there are counties in Iowa that have actuall made it illegal to have Johnson grass on your property. Those folks are serious about getting rid of invasive weeds.


----------



## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

sammyd said:


> it's not orchard or canary, if you have an agronomist confusing the 2 he is not very smart at all


You, topside, and agmantoo are right, in that it is NOT orchard grass.
I sow orchard grass every year in my hay field for the horse hay. I don't go to that expense for my cattle or goat hay.
I chimed in because, maybe if a _4th_ person states _definitively_ that it's NOT orchard grass, it will be ruled out.
It doesn't take an agronomist to read the word Orchard Grass on the seed bag.


----------



## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

Reed Canary looks greener, what I have is more bluish green, quite pale. I saw someone describe Yorkshire Fog as being a grey color, what I have could pass as a pale grey.
Who knew grass could be this hard to ID.

Carol K


----------



## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Local growing conditions can influence color to some degree, with various minerals in the soils. Also photos can have color alterations in going thru the camera, so exact matching colors might not be true colors from plant to photo.

I would go more with the descriptions of the stems, matching those details, in finding the correct grass name. That first site was quite clear on the differences with great illustrations for each variety of grass. Have you tried to match the live plant to those illustration points? 

A common grass in New Zealand just seems far-fetched as a grass found in the USA. Very different growing conditions, and probably Fog would be an expensive choice to get imported, when many other local grass varieties were cheaper, more successful and more available in Carol's home area.

Heck, grasses good in Michigan, won't do well in the Mid-States heat! Western States grasses don't do well in Michigan because they need a much more intense light, higher lumens, that we never see in Michigan.


----------



## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

Hi Carol,

I bet you could send your photos (or a real sample) to these people and have an answer quickly:

Cornell Cooperative Extension 
5435A County Road 48 
Belmont, NY 14813 
Phone: 585-268-7644 
Fax: 585-268-5939 
Executive Director: Dianne Baker 
[email protected] 
http://cce.cornell.edu/allegany_cattaraugus


----------



## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

G. Seddon said:


> Hi Carol,
> 
> I bet you could send your photos (or a real sample) to these people and have an answer quickly:
> 
> ...


Or just carry a sample to the local Cooperative Ext. :shrug:


----------



## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

EasyDay said:


> Or just carry a sample to the local Cooperative Ext. :shrug:


EasyDay, that *is* her local cooperative extension office.


----------



## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

Hi Gail,
thanks for the info. I may see if they have anyone that comes out this way that could stop by and take a look at it. Right now I am mowing it down, but it grows pretty aggressively it seems and comes back up quick.

Carol


----------



## fitz (Jan 7, 2010)

topside1 said:


> yorkshire fog grass pictures - Bing Images


My comment does nothing to help the OP, but your post may have helped me.
The grass looks like what the older guys (80 years+) around me call Bob Mills grass. They always said an old farmer by that name brought the stuff into this area years ago. I still see it around in small amounts. My cattle don't graze it real well but do go after it in hay.


fitz


----------



## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

goodhors said:


> A common grass in New Zealand just seems far-fetched as a grass found in the USA. Very different growing conditions, and probably Fog would be an expensive choice to get imported, when many other local grass varieties were cheaper, more successful and more available in Carol's home area.


Excuse me, but exactly where did I say that this was a common grass in NZ? I said nothing of the sort, what I did say that at one time it had been deliberately planted here as a meadow grass. That doesn't mean that it's common and in fact, it is now rarely seen other than in small patches such as I have. It has been superceded by better grasses - which isn't to say that Fog doesn't have it's uses if one has it.

Also, don't run away with the idea that growing conditions in *some* parts of the States are too different to those in NZ - they aren't.

And Fitz, you have confirmed what I have found - cattle will graze it but not right down as they will other grasses but love it in hay. If I had another lifetime to experiment, I have often thought I wouldn't mind sowing Fog in a hay paddock to see what the results would be. I suspect rather good. However, I've never gone down that track as I don't make hay off our own farm as we are Kykuyu based and Kykuyu makes lousy hay.

Cheers,
Ronnie


----------



## avrugu (Jan 17, 2012)

Hi, I took these pics of a few things growing in my pasture and was wondering if anyone knew what they are. 

Pictures didn't come out great and after reading the thread I realize it's difficult to identify like this. Will take better ones next time. Field is mowed now. 




Pretty sure this is milk weed. Is it beneficial for cows? I plan to get some in the pasture when I have the money. 
















No idea about this
















this is what's in there mostly. reed canary or fescue? does fescue get the burgundy color or just reed?

















this is the same as above just not as far along I'm pretty sure


















not too much of this in there. meadow or smooth bromegrass maybe? 












thanks in advance


----------

