# Kiko Goats



## seanmn (Jan 10, 2006)

Ok I think I posted a similar thread some time ago, but am now thinking more seriously about adding kiko goats to my place. I would be very interested in hearing from people who have them as there really aren't any in my neck of the woods....what are the pros and cons of the breed? are they about as big as boers? The kiko bucks looks like they sure do have impressive looking horns...


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

the sad thing is you cant eat horns, Kiko body type is not the same as Boer, Boer is built for Meat better than a kiko, the kiko is too narrow and is spread more up and down than out and around like a boer, 

the kiko has good qualitys in regards to being wild and able to do everything by them self, if you just want to turn some does out on some mountanous scruffy land and just harvest some kids once or twice a year they are great, they are in the same catagory as Good Spanish stock, rangy hearty animals that are for the most part dissease resistant as much as a goat can be. but compairing a Kiko to a Boer is like compairing a Brama or Long horn to an Angus, yes you will get meat, and yes there will be more meat than on say a dairy or a pygme but if you really want to produce meat you need at least a Boer Buck to put on thoughs rangy does to help make thair fraim better for holding meat.


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## PygmyLover (Oct 12, 2006)

Kiko are just about parasite free! They are tough goats and can withstand a lot! When crossed with Boer goats they make great meat goats. Boer goats tend to me more susceptable to parasites and sickness and when you cross them with Kikos you get the best of both worlds.

But I disagree with them being not desirable as PB kikos, they do make good meat goats as PB.

just my 2 cents.


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## Faithful Heart (Jan 28, 2006)

I think I've read that a Kiko buck will get to be about 180 pounds. About like a spanish. Where as a Boar buck will get up to about 300 pounds. When you mix the boar and kiko, you get some good from both. A larger goat, with lighter bones, so more meat "they say" on a market weight kiko/boar vs. straight boar. The mix will add bulk (from the boar), but add parisite resistance and less hoof trimming (from the kiko). Kikos are smallish, somewhat stout, tough on the range, have slightly smaller & pointier hooves. Their hooves also seem to me to be tougher vs. a boars, that seem wide and soft in comparision. 

I have personally wanted an all kiko herd in the past, but am leaning more and more to a kiko/boar mix herd. We currently have one 75%boar/25%kiko doeling to start with. Our one young buck is probably just some "spanish mix", but could possibly be a kiko mix..... crossing fingers on that one.  (He's better looking than the spanish I see in these parts.) As we get more goats, since we can't afford high end straight kiko, the kiko/boar will probably be the path we take. My 6 month old buck has not needed any hoof trimming, but I touch-up my doelings hooves at the begining of every month. Also, I've only wormed my buck ONCE, and I can't even say he actually NEEDED it. But I know my doeling needed it twice, and I'm thinking it's about time I give her another one.

Some other nice things I hear about Kikos (or the kiko/boar) is that they do wonderful birthing by themselves. I hear it's because they have smaller babies. Also hear they have triplets more often than a boar. My doeling was a triplet.


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## papaw (Jan 21, 2005)

How bout a Boer over Kiko? I see lots of folks talk about the Kiko does and a Boer buck, but I was wondering about the reverse ....


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## Faithful Heart (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd imagine you'd get the same thing. Only thing is, it's sorta easier and less expensive to buy lots of boar does...... then one expensive kiko buck. If you were gonna go with pure on each side. Kikos are still rather expensive. Plus, many of the folks that are switching to the kiko/boar mix ALREADY have a herd of boars. So all THEY gotta do is buy one good kiko buck.

I can get an ok boar doe around here for about $150, but a kiko doe (that I'd have to travel far and wide to get) would cost me about $250 for an ok one.


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## papaw (Jan 21, 2005)

I guess the price and the herd one has would be a factor, but we are starting from scratch. My cousin uses a Kiko buck over Boer/Nubian does. He has less trouble and large meat goats .... I was thinking about this mix. Any thoughts????


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## PygmyLover (Oct 12, 2006)

yes I have heard of the mix as well.


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## seanmn (Jan 10, 2006)

Do they produce more meat than dairy goats?


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## papaw (Jan 21, 2005)

I've been told that they do. The body is longer and carries more weight. The kiko / boer / nubian mixes that I've seen are really big goats. Now all that may come with a healthy feed bill too .... I don't know bout that.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

kiko produces more meat than a dairy but not as much as a good Boer, a good boer is built like a TANK, a pure bred buck can reach 375lb's and keep growing in two or three years, they are built for Meat, but they are also more of an open country goat, they were developed on the plains of Africa, where as the Kiko was bred and developed in the mountans of NewZealand and both have retained much of the chericteristics that needed in both habbitats, Kiko were deveoped from the wild feral stock that had been running loose for generations in the wild lands with no human interfearance and no feed aditions, thats why they are so lean and narrow built, they have a healthy robust system and browsing method compaird to normal goats but dont have the frame to really bulk up, that would just be unpractical for a monster of a goat to be jumping from rock to rock up in the mounts
the Boer was developed in the open with CLOSE human contact and intervention and was able to develop the large frame, and added meat that comes with human protection and feeding, 

if all your able to do is put some does out on pasture and let them get all their diet from that i would get Kiko does and maybe some Boer/Spanish does, and put the best Boer Buck on them you can get, 
if you REALLY REALLY feel the need to use the Kiko blood and are able to do more of an intensive regimen with your goats then you could do the Boer does with a Kiko buck, but you would be takeing a step back though, why not use a Boer buck to keep going forward if you already have the Boer or %boer does.


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## papaw (Jan 21, 2005)

KSALguy said:


> kiko produces more meat than a dairy but not as much as a good Boer, a good boer is built like a TANK, a pure bred buck can reach 375lb's and keep growing in two or three years, they are built for Meat, but they are also more of an open country goat, they were developed on the plains of Africa, where as the Kiko was bred and developed in the mountans of NewZealand and both have retained much of the chericteristics that needed in both habbitats, Kiko were deveoped from the wild feral stock that had been running loose for generations in the wild lands with no human interfearance and no feed aditions, thats why they are so lean and narrow built, they have a healthy robust system and browsing method compaird to normal goats but dont have the frame to really bulk up, that would just be unpractical for a monster of a goat to be jumping from rock to rock up in the mounts
> the Boer was developed in the open with CLOSE human contact and intervention and was able to develop the large frame, and added meat that comes with human protection and feeding,
> 
> if all your able to do is put some does out on pasture and let them get all their diet from that i would get Kiko does and maybe some Boer/Spanish does, and put the best Boer Buck on them you can get,
> if you REALLY REALLY feel the need to use the Kiko blood and are able to do more of an intensive regimen with your goats then you could do the Boer does with a Kiko buck, but you would be takeing a step back though, why not use a Boer buck to keep going forward if you already have the Boer or %boer does.


I notice you're in South Alabama. The land is very different there than in Northeast Alabama. Here, many Boer ranches I have seen have so many rocks and cedar trees along the sides of mountains, it's like the New Zealand area where the Kikos were developed. There are also clean pastures where the Boer is at home. 

Is it smart to develope a herd that compliments your land? A few years ago, there were many pure Boer herds here, but now I see more and more crosses ..... compromise between amount of meat and the amount of work to get it to market. 

These are just some thoughts from listening to several growers ....I haven't started yet and am learning. Thanks for the help.....


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## PygmyLover (Oct 12, 2006)

yes you dont want to be working against yourself! If mixes work in your area then that is what you want to get.

I have a friend in AR who started with boers and now is adding Kikos - she really loves them.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

kiko does would be good for your area, i am actually from Kansas and have not been able to get goats again in ALabama yet,

i would get some Kiko does and a Boer buck, percent does would be good too,


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## Faithful Heart (Jan 28, 2006)

Everything KSALguy brings up is important. It's a balance..... between what land you have, time you want to invest in management, how much meat you want/expect. Alot of various factors that I personally need to consider in my plans too. I think the goal many have been trying to reach with the kiko/boar cross is: 
1) A goat that can range off nearly any land, but maybe even land that's too wild for many other creatures.
2) One that needs little or less management. Less hoof trimming. Less worming. Less help with kidding.
3) Getting goats to a market weight, AND with as little cost as possible. Yes an adult boar will get much bigger. But it's just been found in trials that a kiko has more meat at market weight because of the smaller bone structure. But the cross is prefered apparently because adding boar in gives bulk faster. The kiko/boar might take just a bit longer (than it would a boar) to get to market weight, but with less management, and will have more meat on the lighter bones.

Yes, I'd agree that a boar is quite the meat goat. And even with kiko owners, they'll agree that a boar is a larger & meatier goat. But there's a cost for that quick bulk too..... more management, in wormings and hoof care mostly.

And KSAL is right...... the best start (if you wanted the cross) would be kiko does and a great boar buck. The does wouldn't need much management. Basiclly it would just be the buck you'd have to slightly pamper with the hooves and wormings. If you want big babies fast, and don't mind the added work, then by all means stick to a boar. Both the boar and the kiko are impressive in their own ways.

In a nut shell..... if you were to compare a just weaned or market age goat, a boar would give you more meat but with more management & a kiko less meat but less management. A kiko/boar mix apparently doesn't take much longer to get to market weight, but with less management and more meat for the same size goat. A straight kiko would take the longest to get to market weight, but with nearly no management needed. So it's a matter of what you want, and how you want to get to that end. The best of all is apparently in the 5/8 boar 3/8 kiko. (If you notice, the boar is the higher percent. Meat is the goal. But that bit of kiko makes reaching that goal easier.)


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## homebirtha (Feb 19, 2004)

Faithful Heart said:


> I think I've read that a Kiko buck will get to be about 180 pounds. About like a spanish. Where as a Boar buck will get up to about 300 pounds.


Ummm, not the Kiko's I've seen. We looked at Kiko's in the area and the bucks were closer to 250-300 lbs. They were every bit as big as the Boer buck. Now these were from EXCELLENT stock. They were second generation from the original imports from New Zealand. Gorgeous animals, and very tanklike. Oh, here's a pic: http://www.manyrocksfarm.com/boer.html. This was taken awhile before we saw him and he's much bigger and beefier now. So big that we decided Kiko's weren't for us. lol.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the Kiko does are supposed to be very esay birthers and good mothers. The kids are usually up and around and very vigorous right from birth, where Boers tend to have more problems getting started. Basically, Kiko's are much lower maintenance. However Boers tend to be more docile and easy to handle.


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## seanmn (Jan 10, 2006)

2 reasons I wanted to give the kikos a try are 1. I have some scrubby land that only a goat would love and 2. up here in my neck of the woods meat goats is still new...were getting alot of boers and I have some along with some dairy does, so I would wanted kikos with papers to try and sell some for breeding stock.....I've noticed that my dairy crosses 1/2's and 3/4's seem to get to market size about as fast my purebred boers


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## billygoatridge (Feb 12, 2004)

We used a 50% boer 50%kiko buck last fall, and I'll have to say I liked the kids much better than out of a pure boer buck. They weren't as wide but they have a deeper and longer frame to put the meat on. So at 3 months of age there wasn't much difference weight wise. And normally we try not to have late spring or summer kids because they never do worth a darn but accidents happen. The June kids we had with the kiko in them did just about as well as the winter kids.


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## Faithful Heart (Jan 28, 2006)

As I headed off to work last night I had this thread on my mind. I dream of having kikos, or kiko crosses.... so this chat is right up my alley.  

I think if I had my way..... I'd have some 50/50 does, and a 75%boar25%kiko buck. This combo would give the Genemaster babies that is talked of so much. My husband would like to have full kikos. I have to say though, that I am draw to the idea of the "genemasters" (5/8 boar & 3/8 kiko). 

I'd love to try them all though and see what I liked best. If I had a million dollars.


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## chris30523 (Jun 11, 2005)

I have boer kiko crosses and love them.My full blood boers have more parasite problems.I have a 75% kiko-boer buck and he is a sweetheart.He does have some awsome horns though.I also have a fullblood boer buck.Some of my does are boer kiko crosses and I bred them with the boer buck this year we had some great babies.They are meaty and very healthy.Also the kids from the kiko/boer cross buck to the full blood boers.The full blood boer kids I have lost 3 out of 7 to illness and worms .On the money side I got just about 1.00 a lb for all of them and I feed and worm them the same although my boer does are getting a bit fluffy on alfalfa pellets and hay.


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## papaw (Jan 21, 2005)

This is a very good thread. Thanks for all the info .... 

Why or why not use some Nubian in the mix? Would it not add somemore structure to the frame as well as the mothering aspects and if the milk is used ....more butter fat?


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

We have gone to a mix and love it. We tried some PB Boer and they were high maintenence. the worming was horrible. slowly we have been able to select for ease of care. I like the boer/nubian cross. 75%/25% I good. 50/50 is rather all bone and no meat. 

I have been looking at adding kiko in the mix but don't know. I need a new buck. ours is rather small and I believe could throw bigger weight gain kids, not birth wieght. 

Around here people bred and sold boers and paid no attention to culling for qualities like hardiness. Okla. is very humid and different from the dry Africian suvanna. They don't do as well here. It took me awhile to understand where we were having problems. the boers that look great around here are intensivly managed and are sold for breeding stock. 

We have meat goats and can't spent the time fussing and vetting pampered goats. Crosses will always (almost) have the upper hand on ease of care. 

Bottome line try and see what does best for you. KEY: What is your market??????? 

REcords are vital if you are performing breeding trials. It is tiring and labor intesive but you will find out if you really are getting a better product.


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## papaw (Jan 21, 2005)

Thanks for the info. Why did you use the Nubian cross instead of the Kiko in the first place? The Nubian/Boers that I've seen are large and seem to have a lot of meat on their bones .... I thought to mix the Kiko for hardiness and maybe less worming and hoof care. 

After reading a little more, I'm thinking I don't need the Nubian at all .... I know it's a learning process and no matter how much we read about it ... the learning will come from the doing ... but ... I'd like to spend the money up front as best as I can. 

Boer/ Kiko does and Boer buck? 

We don't plan to pamper these animals. They're a product, not pets. SO ... hardiness is very important. As much meat as soon as possible .... that's the goal anyway.


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

In oklahoma kiko goats are hard to find and very expensive. Nubians are very abundant and were mixed w/ boers from the very begining. It was what we had. Nubians give more milk but also more bone. we had tall boer goats. 

Kiko goats are still $300+ for a grade goat. $500+ for PB. Good proven boer meat goat (meat goat trials) PB not show are $400+


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## papaw (Jan 21, 2005)

OK ... so if cost weren't a factor ... the Kiko / Boer mix would be the mix of choice?


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## Faithful Heart (Jan 28, 2006)

papaw said:


> OK ... so if cost weren't a factor ... the Kiko / Boer mix would be the mix of choice?


Well, if cost was not a factor (including cost for travel to pick-up or have goats delivered), I would personally go with some sort of kiko/boar. Many choices with all of it.
1) pure kiko does & pure boar buck ... or vice versa (both registered) = 50/50 babies (American BoKi babies)
2) registered fullblood kiko buck & registered BoKi doe = 75% Kiko / 25% Boar (American MeatMaker babies)
3) registered fullblood boar buck & registered BoKi doe = 75% Boar / 25% Kiko (International MeatMaker babies)
4) 75% Boar/ 25% Kiko (doe or buck) & 50/50 goat (doe or buck) = 5/8 Boar & 3/8 Kiko (Texas GeneMaster babies)

Have I confused you yet?  

So if cost is not an issue.... why not get the buck you want (and don't forget to consider that kikos are a touch WILD.... a boar buck might be easier to handle), and maybe both some boar does & some kiko does?


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## JAS (Oct 15, 2003)

Hi Seanmn from South Dakota. 

Just thought I would put my 2 cents in.

I got a 50/50 Kiko/Boer buck this summer. He was beautiful and very mild mannered. I had high hopes! But, unfortunately, I lost him about a month ago. He is the first goat I lost due to parasites (we think--vet said anemia). He went down fast. The vet mentioned that a lot of sheep were dieing from worms at that time due to the wet weather. I have a herd of Boer/dairy mixes.

The reason I wanted to try Kikos is what I had read on the internet, not the most reliable source. This is what I found:
1. They are very hardy.
2. They are born small but grow fast (my buckling at 3 months was huge, larger than my other bucklings at that age).
3. They butcher out at higher ratios than Boers (meat versus bone, hide...) though they weigh less.
4. Great mothers, easy births.

Some of the reason I did not run out and get some:
1. I was told that in this area, the price is better for Boer goats and that some buyers were not excited about the kikos.
2. The cost.
3. My location - few Kiko around and I did not feel like acclimating some after spending $$$$.

But anyways, I thought I would tell you where I got my Kiko/Boer buckling. I bought him from a couple near Jackson MN. If you are interested in contacting them, PM me and I will get you their email. I know they bought their Kiko bucks for about $750 to $800 each and were asking similar prices on their purebreds. I got my little guy for $150, which I was very happy with.


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## papaw (Jan 21, 2005)

Faithful Heart said:


> Well, if cost was not a factor (including cost for travel to pick-up or have goats delivered), I would personally go with some sort of kiko/boar. Many choices with all of it.
> 1) pure kiko does & pure boar buck ... or vice versa (both registered) = 50/50 babies (American BoKi babies)
> 2) registered fullblood kiko buck & registered BoKi doe = 75% Kiko / 25% Boar (American MeatMaker babies)
> 3) registered fullblood boar buck & registered BoKi doe = 75% Boar / 25% Kiko (International MeatMaker babies)
> ...


Not confused on the % or papers for registered goats, but I am confused on the WHY of it ????? I will be selling MEAT goats at a sale ... not registered breeding stock. 

A friend has Registered full blood Boer and South African Boers .... lots of money up front and lots of money in up keep. They DO sell high as breeding stock, but those he decides to sell for meat at so much a pound sell just like the goats another friend has that are Spanish/Kiko/Boer mixes ...

The mixed goats are less trouble, have fewer worm problems, fewer hoof problems and eat better in a poor pasture. They'll eat about anything where the SA Boers are somewhat picky and are fed high dollar mixed feed. The mixed goats seem to be better breeders and better mothers. One friend has $50 to $80 in a goat, keeps it awhile and sells it for $100 to $120 .... all he has, he sells .... The other has several hunderd to a couple thousand in his breeding stock and usually gets $200 to $400 for the off spring .... when he finds a buyer. 

At the sale barn, the buyers are looking for meat on the hoof .... not papers .... So why should a meat producer get a high maintenance expensive goat when a Heinze 57 goat will bring just as much at the sale?

Still trying to learn, so I may ask silly questions.....


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## Faithful Heart (Jan 28, 2006)

papaw said:


> At the sale barn, the buyers are looking for meat on the hoof .... not papers .... So why should a meat producer get a high maintenance expensive goat when a Heinze 57 goat will bring just as much at the sale?


I've often wondered about this too, but never have asked anyone. My guess has just been that maybe the people that spend lots of money on papered goats, and spend even more money registering the babies, aren't taking theirs to the sale barn. :shrug: Or they only end up sending the major culls that don't sell to the sale barn...... at what they consider a loss (which it might be).

Only reason I personally would ever have registered adult goats, is to sell registerable babies. But at this point we have no intention of doing anything like that. Our only goal right now is for meat, and maybe one day milk. I also know that any ol' goat will sell just as fast..... papers or not. Maybe not for as much, but if I have goats that are "easy keepers", then very little cost goes into raising some babies yearly.

I just brought up the % thing to talk about what the kiko/boar mixes could be... if you started with registered stock, and wanted to register the babies.


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## Milk n' Honey (Aug 14, 2005)

This is true but it is certainly nice to have a little of both so that you can cater to both ends of the spectrum. You have to admit that getting $400 for a goat sounds pretty good. What if you just had, say, 10 registered does and the rest were not registered? Then you could sell breeding stock and use your unregistered stock for meat. Obviously, the largest quanitity of bucklings will end up going for meat...registered or not. I know nothing about Kikos other than they have some super cool horns!! I find this topic very interesting!! I have yet to try my first hunk of goat meat too!! I will be reserving a few kids for our freezer this spring so we'll see!! A lady near me eats only goat meat but she waits until they are just over a year to butcher. I've heard that the meat isn't as good when you do that. Hmmmmm.....not to change the subject.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

Milk n' Honey said:


> This is true but it is certainly nice to have a little of both so that you can cater to both ends of the spectrum. You have to admit that getting $400 for a goat sounds pretty good. What if you just had, say, 10 registered does and the rest were not registered? Then you could sell breeding stock and use your unregistered stock for meat. Obviously, the largest quanitity of bucklings will end up going for meat...registered or not. I know nothing about Kikos other than they have some super cool horns!! I find this topic very interesting!! I have yet to try my first hunk of goat meat too!! I will be reserving a few kids for our freezer this spring so we'll see!! A lady near me eats only goat meat but she waits until they are just over a year to butcher. I've heard that the meat isn't as good when you do that. Hmmmmm.....not to change the subject.


Papaw here,
The Mexicans at work seem to like the meat of the 3 to 4 month olds the best. They grill or BBQ it usually, but I wonder about the roasts and ground meat .... seems the goat would need to be just a little larger to get a good roast or enough to make buger .... 
My friend with the "higher end" goats sells most of his for meat at the $100 price range. Yes, every once and awhile, he will luck out and sell a registered animal, but usually, he sells for meat and just gets the per pound price .... for me, it seems that he will never recoupe his investment. His children do show some and win a little money .... that's the only advantage that I can see. My other friend with the mixed bloods sells his in the $100 price range and has almost nothing invested in them .... he makes some money with his goats.


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## papaw (Jan 21, 2005)

This could be anothet thread, but this discussion has taken us here ...

I was hoping to hear from some on the registered goat issue. If one is in the meat goat business, why have registered goats, other than the original stock for hear genetics? 

I can see if a kid were to seem to be exceptional, the value of THAT kid would be increased by being able to have papers on IT, but if you only had a couple a year .... would it be worth the effort?


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## homebirtha (Feb 19, 2004)

papaw said:


> Not confused on the % or papers for registered goats, but I am confused on the WHY of it ????? I will be selling MEAT goats at a sale ... not registered breeding stock. ..


I think you're exactly right. For YOUR situation, registered goats don't make as much sense. If you're not getting into selling breeding stock, you don't need papers. You just need hearty, good-producing goats who have kids who put meat on quickly. Selling breeding stock at a sale barn would be pretty foolish. It just depends on what you want to do. 

However, with Kikos, they're still pretty hard to find. So I think there are buyers for breeding stock, at those higher prices. And if you want to sell your kids for $300 or $400, they need to have papers. It's all in what you want to do with your own herd.


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## Milk n' Honey (Aug 14, 2005)

I also believe that you almost need to have a website and maybe even go to a couple of goat shows a year, in order to get the higher prices. People need to know your bloodlines well and it helps if they've heard of YOU or your farm. If all you want is goats for meat and don't care about ever selling breeding stock, don't waste your money on high dollar goats. You should be able to locate some good stock that pack meat on fast without spending the big money on the well known names and registration papers. I'd still want to be sure of what I am buying and the person I am buying from. Your success, going either route, can depend on it greatly.


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## Milk n' Honey (Aug 14, 2005)

Here is a link to an article on Kiko goats that was written by a breeder in Southern Indiana. Their phone number is listed at the bottom....in case anyone is interested in calling them. Here's the link...

http://www.kikogoats.info/articles/luton.html


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