# PANIC/ANXIETY attacks



## partndn

Well, I just lost an incredibly long post and had to start over. 

Please help my sister in law.
Here is the best I can tell you about her:
52 yo
Drinker, no
Smoker, yes
Drugs, never (except adivan before dental visits)
Even Tylenol and Advil hardly ever
Vicks vapor rub is her most used remedy LOL
Sleeps pretty normal, with occasional trouble like what is normal for lots of people.
Naturally stopped periods about 2 years ago
Not over or under weight.
Hemachromatosis (body absorbs too much iron, hereditary disease) kept in check with phlebotomy when necessary.
No herbals or supplements on a regular basis.

Last 2-3 months begun experiencing awful feelings in "spells" described as panic/anxiety. Scared to go grocery shopping, not comfortable keeping the 3yo dgd by herself, all sorts of normal life interruptions due to these spells. The worst is the awful panic/fear when spells hit, and then anticipating the spells when not having them. Ugh!

Family doc tested lots of stuff. BP is very high during spells. He has hoped to avoid BP medication by getting rid of spells. But can't identify what would be causing them.

No real changes concerning stress in any elevated level have happened in her life recently. Matter of fact, the last year was financially better than the previous 3, which were struggles, just like most Americans these days. She started a business selling handmade items and going to craft shows. While it is hard work, she says it's enjoyable and happy the income has helped them. So..cannot identify any stressors anytime in the last 3 months or even longer to blame with this.

Doc finally asks her to try Zoloft. Generally resistant to pharma stuff, she agreed, saying if he told her to eat dog food, she would do it. That's how desperate she feels to get relief.

Reaction was not pleasant. Took half normal dose Zoloft for about 3 days. 
Felt like she was floating above the bed, sensation of having to "reach down" to touch the bed. Made her uncomfortable, but she did go to sleep.
Body felt hot/burning sensation.

Doc said change to Paxil. Half normal dose for only 2 days
Burning body sensation became ON FIRE sensation.
Felt "zombie-ish" 
And vomit, vomit, vomit, vomit.
Ate only saltine crackers and part of a peanut butter cracker.
Took no more med, except hi power nausea med.
Still vomit. Getting over that after couple days of no med.

Doc says take nothing and let everything get out of system, which could take couple weeks.
Next doc visit March 4. Don't know exactly what he will do, but mentioned Buspar. Supposed to treat anxiety without some of the addictions that other drugs have. ?? 

In searching the forum I found stuff about serotonin (doc think is probably low) as well as melatonin. But all threads were more related to insomnia, not so much panic/anxiety.

What can people do in these severe situations? hoping not to become a zombie 24 hours a day for the rest of their life? I feel so terrible for her. I can't describe the torturesome way she seems to be feeling.

Help? please. Thank you.
I have a feeling with the severity here, she may have to find a drug at least short term. I don't know. 
Many years ago, I was given Librium. I was able to take it when things got bad and it really helped take the edge away. It did not make me drowsy at all, NO side effects of any kind. I was able to continue work and whatever else during a real trying time of my life. I was prescribed 50 capsules, and could take 3 a day. I never used a bottle of 50 in a year. I never hear anyone mention this drug. Not sure why. (possibly, it's cheap and there's no money to be made <sarc>). Any opinions on that drug?

Any herbals, exercise, acupuncture, anything someone has found to be a huge help in this situation? I am just hoping someone here at least can interpret my whacky, but best effort attempt to tell you what she is feeling.


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## Belldandy

Please bear in mind this is just my opinion from personal experience. 

IF these are just panic attacks...You CAN talk yourself out of panic attacks. It's not easy but you can tell youself that, no matter how awful it feels, it will go away, and it won't kill you.

Given this lady's age, I suspect the cause of the attacks is hormonal changes. BTDT. 

I would stay away from everything like Zoloft, Paxil, because often it has the opposite effect. Librium reacts differently in different people but that and Meprobamate are among the mildest tranquilizers.

Exercise will help. Even walking around. Cutting back on caffeine will help, and caffeine is in soft drinks and teas, too. Make sure to drink plenty of water.

I hope this has been useful. Any questions? And best of luck to your SIL.


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## Rosepath

A friend, youngish in age, had horrible panic attacks/heart racing episodes for several months. Turns out she had a sort of double dose of hormones thru birth control and meds, and when that got out of the system they stopped.
Is she taking anything for menopause, like hormone replacement? And somewhere I read that there are hormones in some innocent-seeming foods and substances we run into daily. Try googling Weston A. Price foundation for some info in general that may help shed some light.
I hope she finds relief soon, my friend was a basket case during the episodes, it was so traumatizing and she was having uncontrolled fear of dying from her heart racing so fast, poor girl.


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## partndn

Belldandy thank you!
I am totally a believe in the power of our mind and its use with our health. I do know that each of us has different levels of strength in using that. Not sure she would rate on the strength scale, ya know?
She has certainly tried lots of prayer, which I also believe in. Prayer itself can change how your body is feeling.

I also believe she needs exercise. She is not a lazy person, just does not get what you call exercise. In the house a lot.. due to the crafting business work, sitting almost all the time. 

She does drink caffeine every day. No coffee, but soft drinks and tea, not much water. (yikes I am guilty of this myself) Cutting caffeine OUT is a bad idea, but cutting BACK could be a great start.

The doc does not seem to be looking at menopausal/hormonal things. Maybe need another opinion.

Glad you recognize Librium. It sure was a friend to me when i needed it. LOL I'm going to see if she will ask him about it, at least. I really do think money is involved in it being kind of ignored these days. And my discipline when I had it would mean that each prescription would make less than 20 bucks for some drug company over a lifetime. Ha! Like you said, everybody is different with reactions. Mine was positive.


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## partndn

Rosepath, thank you. 
Tough to see people go through this, right?

She takes nothing for menopause or HRT. I do know what you mean about food for sure. She is certainly willing to go hormone free food if necessary. They have had desires to eat all organic, hormone free and tried several things, but never really developed a long term streak.
She enjoys lots of different foods. Her hubby is real meat and taters guy, neglecting veggies and raw stuff. He'll suck it up if he has to for her.


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## BlueRose

I suffer from PTSD anxiety and panic attacks are par for course. My doctor has me taking melatonin. He also wants me to stop all caffeine (have not been able to do that)lol. The melatonin has really helped me. I also do alot of self talk.

Good Luck to her. Give her a hug and let her know you are there for her.


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## okiemom

What may have triggered it in the first place?? I know that seeming innocent things have triggered attacks in my own world and some have been very obvious. 

Hormones have also paid a huge part. There are apps on phones like "pink pad" that can help monitor moods and frequency that may help find a pattern and can lead to resolution. the triggers are what's important. avoid triggers and avoid attacks. 

Also attack mitigation helps as well. Yoga, meditation, exercise... anything that will take the mind somewhere else for a bit is good.


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## gjensen

I have not read all of the posts. I skimmed through them and there is some good ideas. 

Yes hormones can do this to someone. There is a number of physical things that can. She has not developed a mental problem at this point in her life. 

Anxiety is poorly understood by doctors and over diagnosed. 

SSRIs and SSNIs have been helpful for some, but they are over used. They inhibit the re uptake of epinephrine and or serotonin. 

Anxiety at this point in her life is a symptom. The focus needs to by why she is experiencing this. 

She needs her Thyroid and Para thyroid checked. It would not hurt to check Serotonin, but I seriously doubt it is a cause. 

She should have her adrenal function checked. The high blood pressure in these attacks is from a surge of epinephrine/norepinephrine. This constricts the blood vessels (peripheral resistance) and speeds the heart rate up. This is what puts our body in the fight or fight mode. I am pretty certain that this is what she is experiencing, but the cause needs to be known. There is a number of possibilities. 

I suspect that she is experiencing some other symptom that she is making light of or overlooking. A lot of us tend to do that. Identifying what that other thing is could be helpful. 

What needs to be figured out is what is causing the adrenal glands to release too much in these spells.

Typically high blood pressure is treated with beta blockers, but for someone with normal blood pressure typically gets too low of blood pressure. And they will not deal with the issue directly. What will is a drug called clonidine. It is often tolerated better by people with normal blood pressure, and it deals with the issue more directly. 

Clonidine if well tolerated has a better chance of success than the SSRIs or SSNIs that she has tried. Beta blockers is probably not a good idea. 

What she does not want to do is allow a doctor to treat the symptom and allow an underlying problem go undiagnosed longer than what is needed. These kind of things are difficult to pin down as it is.

I would say she needs to see an Endocrinologist first. And tease out of her what else is new, or has been lingering for a while. 

I bet Clonidine will temper these spells. 

But of course, all of this should be discussed with a good doctor. She can bring these things up and ask these questions.

I do not think these are panic attacks that she will be able to talk herself out of. I think they are the kind that you ride out.


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## partndn

She says she can't figure what would trigger. Could be she is holding something in, but not conciously. She has been so desperate and miserable to try to figure this, I believe she's done her best to identify stressors, with no success... so far.

Gjenson, they thyroid and stuff has been checked, far as what a normal doc does anyway. No abnormalities.

A medical friend of mine also suggested it might be time to see an endocrinologist.

I will look up clonidine. Don't know that one. Thanks!


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## gjensen

partndn said:


> She says she can't figure what would trigger. Could be she is holding something in, but not conciously. She has been so desperate and miserable to try to figure this, I believe she's done her best to identify stressors, with no success... so far.
> 
> Gjenson, they thyroid and stuff has been checked, far as what a normal doc does anyway. No abnormalities.
> 
> A medical friend of mine also suggested it might be time to see an endocrinologist.
> 
> I will look up clonidine. Don't know that one. Thanks!


 I would want to go with the endocrinologist first to. Unfortunately it easy for doctors to dismiss these things as anxiety when they do not know what it is. Don't be surprised to see that response. 

Clonidine is a blood pressure medication, because it can moderate it. It does it by calming sympathetic outflow through the CNS (central nervous system). As a result it does moderate the release from the adrenal glands.
It has a few off label uses because of this. It has been used for anxiety, ADHD, drug withdrawals, and some neurological disorders. 

Please understand that I am making no recommendations. I am no doctor.

So that you know, I have a condition that causes these surges. They are no fun. That is why I responded. 
My condition causes a laundry list of symptoms that she would be talking about if she had what I did, so I am not implying a connection. 

I just am intimately familiar with that individual symptom and the nature of it. I went a long time with no one being able to tell me why, and heard the anxiety word quite a few times. 

One of the hang ups with stuff like this is that they come in episodes. It is hard for a doctor to get evidence of it when the patient is not experiencing it. It would not be hard for them to check her catecholamine levels when she does have an episode. 
If she is having them frequently, it would not hurt to get a 24 hr urine test. 

I do not remember but I wondered if she gets these most often active and standing, or soon after? Those levels naturally go up when we stand upright. They constrict the blood vessels and help moderate gravities effect on blood. A normal response is a slight increase in heart rate, and mild vasoconstriction. 

If her blood pressure gets high, how high? Pulse pressure? Heart rate? I was wondering if her pulse pressure narrowed.


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## Whisperwindkat

I lived with terrible panic attacks for years. It cost me my job, almost cost me my marriage, and was probably close to costing me my life. I know the feelings well when those "spells" hit...heart pounding out of your chest, can't catch your breath, adrenaline pumping like you are facing down an angry grizzly bear. It would take me sometimes over and hour to make the 20 minute drive to work. Tried all those antidepressants and they didn't work one bit and in many cases made matters worse. Then they gave me some Xanax, best stuff ever. I had the lowest dose and when I felt an attack I could take one. Usually one was enough, but there was a time with a really bad attack at work that I took another after the first had no affect. Didn't have to take it all the time, just when I needed it. It worked immediately, no waiting around. I suppose since I was on the lowest dose that it didn't have any major zombie affects. Just this sensation of calm and relaxation. Kinda like you would feel at the end of a hard day sinking into a nice warm bubble bath. Now, the drawback is that doctors are hesitant to prescribe it anymore because it is addictive (if you let it) and it is one of the hottest street drugs out there. It is worth a try, it saved my life. I had no problems not taking it when I didn't need it. Blessings, Kat


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## Whisperwindkat

Oh, I agree with GJensen. Don't know why I didn't remember all that. Make sure that she had a free T-3 and free T-4 test, not just a TSH. Also, and adrenal saliva test is best for checking adrenal cortisol levels. She might have to pay for that one herself as most insurance companies don't want to pay for that one. The blood test is not accurate for cortisol levels. It turned out that my underlying cause of the panic attacks was stress coupled with the fact that I had a partial thyroidectomy and was hypothyroid. Doctors kept telling me I was fine though, but all they were testing was my TSH and wouldn't do the adrenal salive test either. Once I started getting my thyroid and adrenals healthy, the panic attacks stopped. Blessings, Kat


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## MichaelZ

When my mom was about 79 she started getting these. They gave her some harsh meds and from that time on her mind was pretty much gone. And that was the last of the mom I knew as I no longer could have any type of normal conversation with her. She then got dementia which progressively worsened to her death at age 95. What helped my mom was getting outside in the sunshine and working in the garden - this did more for her than the drugs. She would snap out of these attacks by summer, but get them again the next winter. I can't say for sure that the drugs caused my mom to mentally go downhill, but I know these prescription drugs, especially when used in an ongoing manner, can have some bad side effects. Check out every possible non-drug solution you can, including a lot of prayer. I wish you the best.


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## Belldandy

partndn said:


> Belldandy thank you!
> I am totally a believe in the power of our mind and its use with our health. I do know that each of us has different levels of strength in using that. Not sure she would rate on the strength scale, ya know?
> She has certainly tried lots of prayer, which I also believe in. Prayer itself can change how your body is feeling.
> 
> I also believe she needs exercise. She is not a lazy person, just does not get what you call exercise. In the house a lot.. due to the crafting business work, sitting almost all the time.
> 
> She does drink caffeine every day. No coffee, but soft drinks and tea, not much water. (yikes I am guilty of this myself) Cutting caffeine OUT is a bad idea, but cutting BACK could be a great start.
> 
> The doc does not seem to be looking at menopausal/hormonal things. Maybe need another opinion.
> 
> Glad you recognize Librium. It sure was a friend to me when i needed it. LOL I'm going to see if she will ask him about it, at least. I really do think money is involved in it being kind of ignored these days. And my discipline when I had it would mean that each prescription would make less than 20 bucks for some drug company over a lifetime. Ha! Like you said, everybody is different with reactions. Mine was positive.


Her work is similar to mine. I have to remind myself to get up and move AND get fresh air, lol.

As for levels of strength, mine's a zero. As long as you know for sure it's a panic attack, you can talk yourself through it. It's important SIL gets the best diagnosis.


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## gjensen

MichaelZ said:


> When my mom was about 79 she started getting these. They gave her some harsh meds and from that time on her mind was pretty much gone. And that was the last of the mom I knew as I no longer could have any type of normal conversation with her. She then got dementia which progressively worsened to her death at age 95. What helped my mom was getting outside in the sunshine and working in the garden - this did more for her than the drugs. She would snap out of these attacks by summer, but get them again the next winter. I can't say for sure that the drugs caused my mom to mentally go downhill, but I know these prescription drugs, especially when used in an ongoing manner, can have some bad side effects. Check out every possible non-drug solution you can, including a lot of prayer. I wish you the best.


Sunshine boosts Serotonin levels. Especially if you can get it soon after waking up. Early morning sun, is a mood booster for anyone.


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## gjensen

Whisperwindkat said:


> Oh, I agree with GJensen. Don't know why I didn't remember all that. Make sure that she had a free T-3 and free T-4 test, not just a TSH. Also, and adrenal saliva test is best for checking adrenal cortisol levels. She might have to pay for that one herself as most insurance companies don't want to pay for that one. The blood test is not accurate for cortisol levels. It turned out that my underlying cause of the panic attacks was stress coupled with the fact that I had a partial thyroidectomy and was hypothyroid. Doctors kept telling me I was fine though, but all they were testing was my TSH and wouldn't do the adrenal salive test either. Once I started getting my thyroid and adrenals healthy, the panic attacks stopped. Blessings, Kat


 A blood test is pretty accurate for cortisol levels. The problem is that it is just a glimpse in time. It says nothing about what is going on throughout the day. These levels naturally fluctuate. Higher upright, and lower supine, etc. A 24 hr urine test is a good clue, because it gets the day's average. 

In my case, the best way to see what is happening for me is to do a blood test supine and after being upright for 10 minutes.
Supine my levels are normal. After being upright for a while, my levels are abnormally high. There is a natural rise when you stand, but my increase is unnaturally high. 
Saliva tests are good, but they have the same problem as the single blood test though a little more accurate.


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## CuriousWanderer

I used to suffer from panic attacks from my PTSD. I agree that Xanax is pretty good. I took the lowest dosage when I felt an attack coming on. Once I felt I was better able to control them(and myself) I stopped taking prescription drugs and started taking passion flower capsules instead. Now I don't need anything and rarely have attacks at all. I got the passion flower at my local health food store.


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## gjensen

If I decided and everything is ruled out, that they were classic panic attacks, I would go the natural route. 

With my condition, you can end up prescribed a number of things. There is no cure, and it is only symptom management. 
I only take one prescription medication though I do take a couple natural alternatives. My case is not well managed yet, but I have it managed better than it was before.


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## Whisperwindkat

gjensen said:


> A blood test is pretty accurate for cortisol levels. The problem is that it is just a glimpse in time. It says nothing about what is going on throughout the day. These levels naturally fluctuate. Higher upright, and lower supine, etc. A 24 hr urine test is a good clue, because it gets the day's average.
> 
> In my case, the best way to see what is happening for me is to do a blood test supine and after being upright for 10 minutes.
> Supine my levels are normal. After being upright for a while, my levels are abnormally high. There is a natural rise when you stand, but my increase is unnaturally high.
> Saliva tests are good, but they have the same problem as the single blood test though a little more accurate.


 Like you said the blood test is one look, while a 24 hour saliva test takes 4 measurements in a 24 hour period. A blood test also doesn't distinguish between bound and unbound cortisol. If adrenal health were dependant on a one time blood test that was taken at that too high moment even though the rest of the day one might be too low then the doctor wouldn't even consider adrenal fatigue. If adrenal fatigue is present, but not treated when thyroid treatment is begun then that could send the adrenals crashing even further leading to even worse health than before. A urine test is an average which tells you nothing. You could be average throughout the day or you could have a couple of too highs with several too lows and it still shows up as a "normal", but large fluctuations (see-sawing back and forth) are not normal. I know that my thyroid health could not be treated until my sluggish adrenals were addressed because it would have sent them crashing even harder than they already were. I was one of those see-sawing back and forth during the day people. Sorry to disagree, but for many of us it is important to get the most accurate picture that we can of what is going on and not many doctors are going to let you stay in their office over a 24 hour period to draw blood multiple times during the day. Blessings, Kat


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## Maura

I didn't read the other answers, short on time. Reflexology can help her. There is the foot rub, but other things to do also. She should go to a reflexologist and see if that helps.


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## Songbird

I had panic attacks/anxiety for many years. Nothing helped until I slowly weaned off all caffeine and then they were gone - for good! Simple cure that I wish I would have known about years before....and I am very calm overall without caffeine in my life now.


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## doingitmyself

All of the symptoms you described in the OP are also symptoms of excessive Yang energy. Excessive Yang energy is not a diagnosis or a disease but a natural build up of male energies, and for a woman to experience this is, well, just awful. 

Google Yin energy increasing therapies, and find a good Chinese Medicine Dr. The Chinese medical model does not deal with disease as Western does. Instead of drugs Chinese suggests herbs, and very specific stretches and exercises to increase or decrease the different types of energies that the body needs to stay balanced.

Its interesting after the long post that you acknowledge the likely treatments and protocol in the last sentence of your post. I'm not judging at all, as that is the western medical model mindset to think like that.

Disclaimer

I am not a Doctor of Chinese Medicine, I am a life long student and practitioner of the art. Also, she may get benefits from Massage Therapy if she can find one competent in the art of Acupressure. If she can find a legit practitioner or Reiki at a level 3 or Master/Instructor status that could be hugely helpful as well. The practitioner you would be looking for will not accept payment for the sessions however would suggest a donation instead to a local worthy charity. 

If you would like to talk more please PM me. I hope you both find what you are looking for.


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## Mr_IC

I've been dealing with panic attacks for the last three years since I was 35. I regularly see a psychiatrist for pharmaceutical management, and I also see a therapist for learning how to manage them as well as prevent them by addressing issues that cause them. In my case and other people's cases that I've talked to, although all panic attacks are caused by the same hormones (i.e. adrenaline), they don't all have the same trigger. Sometimes, there is an outside worry that triggers the panic attack. Those are the ones I can talk myself through. Other times there is no outside trigger, just a chemical imbalance on the inside. Those are the frustrating ones that persist regardless of the methods I use to try to talk through them. I've been prescribed Celexa, Buspar, and recently, Efexor. They all help a lot. I prefer to go natural first, and in fact went to a naturopath originally. However, I needed more than what she could do and finally saw the psychiatrist. What I would like to suggest you look into is an amino acid called L-Theanine. I found out about it from a friend with panic attacks. It acts on the dopamine. When I've been at my worst, I took 200mg 3x a day. Now I take it only twice a day. Even with all the meds, I still have some (less overwhelming) bouts of anxiety occasionally. However, I've noticed on repeated occasions that when I've forgotten the L-Theanine for 2 or 3 days, the attacks get severe until I get back on it. It's relatively natural, and widely available. 

I hope she finds what she needs. Living with panic attacks is miserable and my heart really goes out to her.

Isaac


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## Convoy

Just wanted to add a potassium deficiency is sometimes confused with panic attacks. This happened to my sister since she went to the same hospital and they told they were panic attacks, then she went to another one where they tested her potassium levels. At that point they told her they didn't know how she was alive since her levels were equivalent to someone who is deceased.

Other then that it might help to avoid all stimulants (yes that includes coffee, cigarettes, and artificial sugars). Also exercise and a diet extremely high in greens might also help.


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## Cookie2

My own experience associated with panic attacks was hormonal. Some of the worst ones I had were during infertility treatment where they gave me a medication to stimulate ovulation and caused me severe emotional reactions. It was also difficult to keep 'sane' when I went into surgical menopause. As a matter of fact, that was over 10 years ago and I still have some menopausal symptoms.

I agree with the Chinese medical advice that her problem may be too much male hormone and not enough female hormone. I use a progesterone cream made from wild yam that helps. I also use 80 mg of black cohash.

Additionally, talk therapy helps. There are ways to mentally manage anxiety attacks, decreasing their severity and eventually helping to eliminate them.

Good luck whatever she does. I hope something helps.


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## PricklyThistle

I have the unfortunate distinction of being a self taught expert in anxiety attacks. I think I have experienced them about as bad as it can ever get. Not half and hour or and hour but almost constant ones that could last at peaks 48 hours and linger for a week. I have PTSD but it doesn't require any trigger I could consciously tell you about to start an attack. 

I don't take meds, not even aspirin. Never see doctors, never see therapists. I took B complex (natural source, not fake) and Valerian root at night for calmer sleeping but by far the most helpful thing was faith. Maybe not everyone wants to hear that, but when I trusted God more than me or anyone else, those attacks stopped for good. 

I know those supplements I used helped and I have no doubt that finding out about them in the first place was miraculous. I went from being in a state of panic that was nearly constant and bad enough to actually make my adrenals ache to knowing that I would be fine even when the feeling starts to creep in and it subsides.


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## MNMamaBear

If everything checks out as 'normal' by her regular doctor, and thyroid, hormones, etc checks out OK, she can also try St. John's Wort (in tea form is the best, I think). It's a mild-to-moderate antidepressant and isn't known to cause a lot of side effects. For occasional nervousness or anxiety, valerian root tea is also worth a try. Chamomile also has calming effects. 
And as you and others have suggested, exercise, fresh air, meditation. I also strongly, strongly would recommend that she quit smoking although that can be very difficult and she probably shouldn't undertake that until these attacks are under control. Best of luck to her, hope she feels better soon!


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## Melesine

I started experiencing panic attacks recently and having off and on anxiety with no known cause. I think mine are perimenopause related. Went to the Dr and had an EKG and full lab work including thyroid, blood sugar, potassium, liver, kidneys and even cardiac enzymes. Everything is normal. They gave me a rx for SSRi which I haven't taken so far. I started taking L theanine 200 mg once a day which is an amino acid from green tea and drinking a tea with passion flower and chamomile. I did notice a marked improvement in my anxiety within about hour using them. I also started relaxation and breathing exercises, meditating, listening to uplifting music, reciting mantras and affirmations. This is stuff I used to do years ago and just what immediately came to mind when I thought about trying to overcome my anxiety. 

It's been 2 weeks and I'm so much better. I only took the supplement for about a week because I stopped feeling anxious and no more racing heart. If I feel anxious again I'll go ahead and take the supplement and drink the tea again. I think the affirmations and mantras have provided the main benefit.


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## gjensen

It is important to understand that anxiety and panic attacks are two different things. 

It is also helpful to know whether there are mental or emotional issues that need to be resolved, or if they are purely chemically induced. Often they are. 

Things that help figure it out is when are they happening and what precedes them. 

In other words, our cortisol levels are highest in the morning. 

Women are more vulnerable to them, because of the additional hormone challenges that could be had. 

My issue is a combination of things. I have a neurological disorder that gives me higher than normal standing norepinephrine levels. Coupled with higher than normal morning cortisol levels and an overly sympathetic nervous system, I am set up for panic attacks. I am rational, before during, and after. There is no thought process or talking myself out of it. Both neurologically and chemically induced panic attacks. 

If they are panic attacks that are chemically induced, normally you will urinate a lot afterwards, and have a shaking spell that concludes the event. This is your bodies way of ridding itself of the excess adrenalin. You will not generally have this with anxiety attacks.

Any number of problems with the endocrine system can be a cause. Neurological issues can be a cause. Any shift in the hormone balance from pregnancy, post pardum, menopause, adolescence etc. can be a cause. Stress, whether on the surface or under can be an underlying issue. Dealing with it most effectively, is getting at the root cause.

These are sometimes a symptom and not primary.


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## Bret F

I agree with the posts to see an endocrinologist.

I am generally "laid back". I started to have anxiety attacks and found it was associated with my thyroid.


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## partndn

Shoot! I have neglected checking back here and missed several posts. :facepalm: This time of year, I have to put in way too many work hours.

Things are not a bit better y'all. Matter of fact, I believe worse.

She cannot live without adivan. She went to gastrointestinal specialist, had endoscopy, and he found nothing but normal. He did suggest buspar, and she took that for a week with no trouble, taking it only at night. Adivan during the day.
Then the 2nd week, she was supposed to up the buspar frequency to morning and night, but that didn't go well. So no more buspar.
Gastro doc was all in favor of trying accupuncture. Yay for that encouragement.

Appt to try the accupuncture is tomorrow. She had an appt previously, bout a month ago, but didn't go because it was a "bad day."

I'm stumped. I'm gonna change the description of these from "attacks" to just 24/7 condition. She has lost 25 pounds. She thinks everything she eats will make her feel sick, so she feels like a great accomplishment if she takes a bite of anything besides applesauce or a saltine. GP on Monday this week really pushed a psych visit.

Easter Sunday first time I've really seen her in a while. Familly dinner and stuff. She had a scarf wrapped around her head. I said what are you doing? She said "well I don't need to get an ear infection on top of everything else." It's like this has invoked a sort of hypochondriac mindset. That's just one example of a bunch of comments like that. Every moment of her day is consumed with thinking of this condition. 

I think she has defeated herself in her own mind. She has a pshychiatrist appt Thursday. I dunno. Maybe she DOES need that. At first, I thought no, but now.. I'm at a loss. 

I appreciate everybody's comments and suggestions, and I feel for you all who have had to struggle with this. 

I wish I had a more encouraging update. I will try to check back here after her appts this week and post if anything is changing.


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## Belldandy

Oh dear..sounds less like simple panic attacks....thanks for the update, and please let us know how the doctor visit goes.


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## Delion

Right off the top, I must say I don't have the time to read all the posts, so not sure if this was covered. 

But this winter my dh age 67 started experiencing panic attacks just out of the blue. He felt the walls closing in on him and couldn't sleep. It was crazy as this was just out of the blue. It was on this forum I read about someone who ran out of vitamine D, and had changes that were unexplained, but vitamine D put him back on the rails. So we tried it, and in 4 days I had my husband back and in his right mind. I was quite amazed. Maybe it's something this simple.


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## partndn

UPDATE

Today's accupuncture first visit went fantastic!! :thumb: He said he treated for adrenal, anxiety, stomach, stress, etc.

She came out totally positive. Said her stomach pain went away sometime during the treatment. They guy who administered it said he is convinced adrenal malfunction. The main thing was he "believed" her. Made her feel so hopeful. Her plan is to continue these for 6 weeks.

Psych appt first visit tomorrow. :spinsmiley: I'm not a fan and don't have a lot of expectation. but she's carrying through with what GP recommended for now and see how it goes.

Her vitamin D was 9, which i'm told is really bad low. She is taking some, but trying not to overload too many supplements due to her stomach being so sensative. 

I was at a low, myself, in how to even encourage her. After today, even I was lifted because she had real positive things to say. :sing:


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## HomeOnTheFarm

I just now came across this thread. So very happy that there is a positive post about her!

I didn't see it in any of the other posts, so figure I'd add 2c to the pot...

I had anxiety attacks a number of years ago. Pinned down the problem, all good (high stress issues). A few years ago, however, I experienced several attacks out of the blue (panic attacks, not stress related) over a 24 hour period. My cousin heard about it and contacted me to help; her husband had frequent panic attacks for years before discovering that chronic ear infections were to blame (yay naturopath!). What the hooie, I treated my attacks the same way I treat ear infections: swallowing and major jaw-movement for immediate aid, garlic/olive oil in the canal itself. Within 24 hours, no more attacks. Came to find out that there was a major head cold making the rounds in our community at that time. 

I don't know if it would help, seeing that she is a smoker, I wondered if it could be ear-related. I certainly hope that her continued accupuncture treatments solve the problem!


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## DianeKidman

There are so many good answers in here! As a lifelong "panicker," I can tell you that meditation and diet are huge! I drink green smoothies every day (1 - 3 quarts of the stuff) and having lots of dark leafy greens in my diet that way is energizing and helps tremendously. But the #1, absolutely best way I've found to totally knock out the panic is neurofeedback. This is different than biofeedback, and in my mind is far superior. It involves going to a neurofeedback clinic (not easy to find, unfortunately, but well worth the hunt), having them hook you up to the machine, then laying back and listening to music for about an hour. No, the machine doesn't hurt, and it's very relaxing. The woman I worked with had me check my breathing several times a day. We discovered that my childhood asthma had never gone away! In fact, the asthma was still horrible. Much of my panic was stemming from my inability to breathe properly. My body recognized this, although I did not. The neurofeedback "realigned" my brainwaves. I'm not a neurofeedback specialist, but there are many good websites on the topic. As for the asthma, I now live in the desert, and the green smoothies have done wonderful things for reversing the issues, as have (more recently) drinking lots of water. 

If you're looking for a neurofeedback specialist in your area, Psychology Today online has a search engine for finding them near you. Good luck to your sister-in-law! I wish her all the best.


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## MoonRiver

Inflammation is always a thing to look at with any disease. Going on a diet to reduce inflammation might help. I'm also guessing she might have a wheat/gluten problem.

The big problem I'm guessing is hormone related. She has either too much or too little of one or more hormones. The thing with hormones is they cascade - in other words, one hormone depends on an adequate supply of another hormone. She really should have a full lab done. The problem is there are very few doctors that will do the tests and then know what they mean if they do have them done.

I would take a look at Suzanne Summers books for hormone info.

And I came across the below article when I was looking for something else, but it sounds like a lab your sister should have done.



> *From Dr. Jennifer Landa:*
> Anxiety during perimenopause is a very common issue. All too commonly it is treated by primary care doctors, psychiatrists and even gynecologist using SSRI medications like Zoloft or Prozac. But, alas, as I am fond of saying, these women DO NOT have a Zoloft deficiency. It is more likely that they have a progesterone deficiency.
> In a normally cycling woman, the hormones estrogen and progesterone exist in perfect harmony, rising and falling at set times in a womanâs cycle to control her bleeding but also to keep her feeling her best. Around age 30, but many times even younger, progesterone levels start to fall. The problem begins here because progesterone is a womanâs calming hormone.
> Without progesterone women may begin to feel more overwhelmed and easily stressed. In many women, this leads to anxiety issues, including tension headaches, palpitations, digestive issues and more - and in some cases, even full blown panic disorder. healthline


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## Jlynnp

For years my husband had attacks which were attributed to panic attacks. He could feel them coming but nothing worked. Two and a half years ago he had his knee replaced. I was sitting in his room and he told me he was having a panic attack. About that time a couple nurses came in and asked if he were ok, he explained what he believed was happening. Within seconds another lady literally runs into his room demanding to know how he was doing, well it seems he was in AFib. Within less than 3 minutes he was on a stretcher and out of the room with 14 medical personnel following him. He went in to AFib 3 more times before they would release him from the hospital. They put him on a monitor for a month and decided to do an Ablation which has more or less cured the problem. 

Every time someone says a panic attack now I cannot help but wonder how many have AFib and do not know it.


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## farmmaid

I was tested for Addison's and sure enough, that is what I have. A good endrocrinologist will save her!


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## partndn

I've missed some more replies. Glad I noticed here.

I am sad to tell you she is not good at all. 

She only stuck with accupuncture for about 3 visits. 
She continued therapist but didn't feel like much was being gained.
Continued psychiatrist for as long as they felt useful (wasn't useful at all).

Christmas was terrible. She sat like a mouth breathing science study. Lasted only about 45 minutes and then went to bed. Bed has become her retreat, several times a day. Supper must be at 5:30 so she can be in bed at 6. Same thing a few days before at her mom's holiday get together. She didn't speak to anyone, just sat, and waited for the first possible moment to say let's go.

She has seen endocrinologist. They found nothing to indicate anything. MRI of brain, no findings of disease. Extesive testing of all kinds has not revealed any "Aha!" discoveries at all.

Several of us are concerned she is incredibly addicted to ativan now. She will not go without it. But her husband says, according to the doctor, the amount she is taking is like a baby aspirin. He compared that here dose is several times smaller than "most" people. I dunno. I see that it is very clearly supposed to be a SHORT term drug, and they have not been able to find any other medicine that she can take. 

The other drug she is taking is very serious, like for schizo's or something. She is not nuts. It's the biggest mystery and frustration and so disheartening.

There is talk of putting her in a hospital and I'm scared to death. They could get her off some of the drugs safely, but I don't have confidence that's what they would strive for. I think they will replace one drug with another unsuccessfully and end up labeling her some sort of whacko.

I think it is time to find a naturopath or homeopath to get serious with. That's all that's left they haven't tried.

There have been a couple brighter days, but not enough to give lasting encouragement. For example, Christmas was so bad, but New Years Eve she went to her daughters, had half a steak and a baked potato. (that's a lot for her) and acted like she was glad to be there. So weird! Most of the time she won't leave the house for more than an hour. Gotta get to bed, etc.

sigh......... We need prayer yall, and I will try to keep updated here. Thank you for all the input and your experiences.


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## VA Susan

partndn,
So sad to read all this. I read your first post again and it made me so angry at the medical establishment for their irresponsible use of drugs. Now she is addicted to a drug. Her story reminds me of a book I read called _Good Mood Bad Mood_ by Dr. Charles Hodges. He is a Christian and is a medical doctor.
http://www.amazon.com/Good-Mood-Bad-Depression-Disorder/dp/1936908506

He practices medicine in Indianapolis, Indiana. I don't recall him dealing with panic disorder in the book but the stories of some of his patients sure sound a lot like your sister in law's experiences with doctors over-prescribing drugs that cause more problems than the original problem.
I wish she could see Dr. Hodges. 
Do you or she have a pastor who could talk to her? I will pray for her. Hoping and praying that God will send her help. That pill may be small like a baby aspirin but it is highly addictive. Shame on the doctor. He is a drug pusher.


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## InHisName

As a 52 year old, had some of the same issues. Went to Dr, and they just rather run around things - My problem, which has been mentioned here- progesterone deficiency. Read the book, What your dr may not tell you about Menopause by DR Lee- It helped so much! Also, magnesium- have her take a good magnesium and Vitamin D, also Dead Sea salts with Geranium essential oil, and lavender. Liver Detox- (TCM) Dandelion tea, etc- would help. Make sure she finds a progesterone cream that has progesterone in it, many on Amazon. 
For a quick relief, Skullcap tea, with oatstraw and lemon balm. We have so many things in our environment that are estrogenic- plastics, carpets, cleaners- the list goes on for miles, and many women naturally become estrogen dominant at this age. Please get that book, or go to Dr Lee's web site. She is fortunate to have you help- when we feel SO bad, we can't think clearly- and need someone to help. Bless you-


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## motherhenshow

If she is not sensetive to ragweed, I would recommend lots of chamomile tea. Valerian root is great for anxiety-use it. Also, melatonin at night. I would start with these items and a good multi-vitamin and see what happens. Some people need additional support with extra vit d, calcium, magnesium, b vitamins.


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## Laura Zone 5

http://www.serotune.com/blogs/articles/2660472-foods-that-naturally-increase-serotonin

This has a list of foods that naturally raise the serotonin.


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