# Tail Docking Question?



## BobDFL (Jul 7, 2006)

My first and only wool ewe to lamb just had twins. Here are some pics:

Mom and the twins:









Kensie (the little girl):










And PokerFace (the mom's name is Lady BaBa):










I know I need to dock their tails and I'm a bit confused.

The breeder I got the ewe and the ram from docks very close to the body but everything I'm reading online and what my Ag Agent has found says to dock at the end of the claudial fins of the tail. 

Also the breeder uses a Burdizzo and knife to remove the tails, whereas I see that the common practice is to use banding. 

I'd like to know what you guys are doing.

Thanks in advance.


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## purplequeenvt (Mar 3, 2013)

We use the elastrator bands. It's easy, inexpensive, and there is no blood. I don't like long docks, but I also don't like the super short ones either. I dock just beyond (towards the body) the caudal fold. Usually the first spot between vertebrae past the caudal fold.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I band. It's less traumatic on me. I leave enough tail for them to wag. I hurt for those ewes with no tails.


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## Laurie J (Mar 9, 2005)

We also band. It hurts for a bit, then turns numb, and in a short time the lambs are running around happy. The tails fall off in 2-3 weeks. Below is a picture of where we band. The practice of leaving no tail is just asking for prolapse in the future.


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## ErikaMay (Feb 28, 2013)

Docking right next to the body is a thing that people do for show animals or in australia to make shearing faster, but its not good for the animal itself. Their tails have important muscles attached to them and without a tail to lift when they do their business the muscles atrophy. This can lead to prolapses. 

I look at wild sheep: where did nature put the tail on big horned sheep? It ends just below the anus or vagina. So that is where I dock. I use bands. It hurts for about 30 minutes and then they are back to bouncing around. I don't like the idea of an open wound right where theres alot of poop. Its also nice because if you screw up and put it in the wrong place you can cut the band off and try again. Plus....you get a few more weeks of watching those adorable tails wag.


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## zephyrcreek (Mar 30, 2012)

We band leaving enough tail to cover the anus and vagina. I read a recent article that listed medical reasons against docking close to the body.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

We use bands, but we only band the ewe lambs since the rams are all going down the road. I don't get real short. I just want to avoid nasty tail issues, not for looks.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

I had a ewe that was docked by the farm we bought her from. They docked to much off and and a result she prolapsed with her first lambing. The vet couldn't save her and was mad that people are so foolish. Her ram lambs were a week early but survived. So if you dock, dock long! Cover the pooch. To short causes muscle damage that can result in severe prolapses in ewes. You want a stub.

I personally do not dock my lambs. No reason for us. We dont sell our sheep and we have only a few so it no problem to shear their tails when we shear them, which we do ourselves. We have had long tailed sheep for 6 years and never had a problem with it.


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## ErikaMay (Feb 28, 2013)

just banded my lambs yesterday! The only one who seemed bothered by any pain was the ram lamb (they seem to be more sensitive, last year the ram lambs were crying and the girls were ok). The two ewes were like, "whatever. MOOOOM! GIVE ME MILK!"

I definitely recommend banding. Less blood, less pain.


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## hastyreply (Nov 10, 2012)

Watch Mike Rowe's video it's funny and thought provoking. 
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-udsIV4Hmc[/ame]


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## RovingAcres (Mar 3, 2013)

hastyreply said:


> Watch Mike Rowe's video it's funny and thought provoking.


That's an excellent video, I love Mike Rowe.

I think everyone should do what they're comfortable with but there's no scientific evidence that banding is "more humane" or "less traumatic". Personally, I use a double crush emasculator to dock. It puts pressure on one side and cuts on the other so there is barely any blood at all. 

Cutting is harder for me emotionally than banding, but I personally feel like its easier for my sheep. I use the cut tail stump to take a blood sample for scrapie codon testing for the breed club that asks for it and the lamb bounces off no worse for wear. Never had an issue with infection or excessive blood loss.


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## farmallmom (Mar 14, 2013)

We don't dock, but I've personally done the burdizzo/knife method as a teenager. I always left them a bit long.
We use an elastrator to castrate, thought it's more because it's easier for us. I don't know that it really is more humane for the animals, but it certainly seems to be. (hoping that makes sense). 
I would certainly try it, it's easier if you are not super experienced. You can cut it off and redo it if you don't like the spot it is in.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

I would second the idea of leaving a bit of length on the tail when docking, though not too much because it can collect dirt. I saw a LOT of prolapses in show lambs without tails in 4-H, cut too short, kids ALWAYS having to fuss with it. I also heard of ewe loss because after prolapse lambing, they couldn't be bred back. Ewe didn't die, but useless in a flock. So it wasted the sheep, poor price at the sale barn after only one productive year for you.

However, with banding or cutting, you want to consider your location, weather and insect activity when you do tail removal.

Banding up here in the Northern States usually takes place in early spring, late winter, when it is cold. No bugs to cause infection at that time. 

Down further South, winter is breaking or gone. OP has a Florida location, when they just don't get cold, always have bugs. So the idea of tail cutting as the removal method, could be faster, cleaner, to get the dead tissue off and away from the animal for health reasons. Banded tails CAN take a while to fall off, with dead tissue a huge attraction to flies and infection, nasty things.


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## BobDFL (Jul 7, 2006)

Had the vet come out and do it, since I didn't have the tools and I was only going to have 2 that would need it this year (the rest are hair sheep that I don't dock). 

He used the Emasculator and cut the tailes off. He also left them long (relatively) because of the increase in the chance of prolapse or delivering early (which is what I think happened with my girl since ethe babies were so small).

The little girl is doing fine but the little boy is just not thriving like his sister. I started trying to give him a bottle this morning to see if I can build him up.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

BobDFL said:


> Had the vet come out and do it, since I didn't have the tools and I was only going to have 2 that would need it this year (the rest are hair sheep that I don't dock).
> 
> He used the Emasculator and cut the tailes off. He also left them long (relatively) because of the increase in the chance of prolapse or delivering early (which is what I think happened with my girl since ethe babies were so small).
> 
> The little girl is doing fine but the little boy is just not thriving like his sister. I started trying to give him a bottle this morning to see if I can build him up.


That is a good idea, mom may just not have enough milk for both which could cause her to be partial to one or the other.


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## BobDFL (Jul 7, 2006)

He didn't like it to much, he only drank about 1 oz, but I'm going to try again in a little bit, and then again later, and then before bed.

If I have to, I'll give him 4+ a day until he starts looking better.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I never docked tails. Look at the lamb's tail. You'll notice that there is a leather streak on the underside. Some breeds have longer leather, some shorter. This protects the tail from building up manure on the underside. My Black Welsh Mountain sheep had 2/3 length of their tail leathered. So, anyway, don't be afraid of docking long.


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