# Thinking of starting up my old piano business... could use input



## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Greetings,

I have been doing some planning and scheming on how to get a business going. I don't feel like I can earn a living with a garden, at least not without a year or two to get it going. And even when I do, I may not feel like working hard enough to bring in the income I'd like to perhaps put towards paying off potential real estate loans.

I haven't found the place yet, at least not for sure. I'm just about to start negotiations on one I think but I'm not sure whether the deal will fly or not. Jury is still out on that one.

Regardless, I am considering restarting an old business. Once upon a time, I was a piano tuner, repairer, rebuilder and even refinisher. There's not a lot I didn't do. Even moved a few but not too anxious to open that can of worms again. 

The reason I'm giving it serious consideration is because it's unique enough that there are very few people doing it in the area I'm wanting to settle and also, I already have the skills and most of the tools and supplies I'd be needing to start right back up again. I've done a little tuning here and there for the last 10 to 15 years or so I've been away from the business but have not done it as a business since the early 2000s.

I think it may have some potential to be a nice part time occupation with control over how many of my hours are input and when, with the potential for the income approaching what a fulltime wage earner might earn in this area. (Minimum wage is only $7.25/hr, I think. A tuning runs close to $100 a pop.)

I realize that I have a limited market and that I'm not going to be busy every day. I don't really want to be. I'll likely have busy times of the year (probably between about the beginning of November until about mid December). And other times of the year (like January & February) when there won't likely be much going on at all. Been there, done that, I know what to expect.

One of the things I could use some input on is advertising. How does one advertise these days? In the old days, back when I first started out, the biggie was getting your display ad in the Yellow Pages. Ok, that was then. But I got to thinking, when was the last time I used a phone book? It's pushing a decade since I cracked the cover on one. Do they still print them? I think it's about 20% of the population doesn't even have a land line anymore. For that matter, a person could certainly use even a prepaid cell phone as a business line and have a "local" number, complete with voice mail, cheap.

Does a person need a website? I kind of remember having one in some of my last piano endeavors but at the time (probably around 15 years ago) it was more of a novelty than a necessity. I suspect these days, I really do need a website. But that begs the question, how do you get local people to your website? I am probably going to have an area of about 75 miles or so that I'll be willing to go in any direction. In internet terms, that's tiny. But it's about as far as I'm wanting to go with rare exception. 

I do remember that there was a weekly newspaper that was in my local area back then, a "Penny Saver" or "Thrifty Nickel" type paper that was a pretty decent place to advertise as people did read it. It wasn't necessarily cheap to advertise there but it did pay for itself back then. I don't know how good one of these might do in this area. 

I am well aware of word of mouth being a good thing. I already have a little of that going and I haven't even officially started anything yet. I just think I need a little more than that to have anything much beyond a hobby that happens to make a little cash on the side, at least to get me started.

Anybody have any ideas? It may be similar enough to some other businesses that some things would be the same. 

Whatcha think? Have any thoughts that might be useful? I'm interested!

Thanks!


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## Waiting Falcon (Nov 25, 2010)

Here tuners are far apart, good ones even further.
Churches have pianos, colleges for sure, the old uprights can 
be beautiful when restored and some are used just as decorations.
If you are good at it..I say go for it.
The last piano tuner I had, was decent , by no means exceptional, 
and drove 70 miles to my house. He usually tried to tune 3 a day 
and had a circuit , if he was going to be in my area and had an 
empty slot he would call me.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

I don't know a thing about the piano business.

While I would be the last person to know, I would think that Facebook could be your best option.

Of course, you don't want to annoy people with too many posts, but gentle reminders, often given through tech tips, interesting trivia, along with specials that you might offer, are generally welcome to anyone's FB feed.

I have had some friends who thought they needed to post something every day, advertising a business that I'll never use, will quickly get them unfriended on my FB.

For instance, there was a guy selling very overpriced, low quality antiques on my FB feed...every single day...that guy got unfriended in less than a week's time.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Thanks for the input!

I'm not generally one to toot my own horn but if I had to put myself realistically into the pack of tuners out there, I'd probably make it into about the top 15 to 20 percent, at least as far as quality goes. Am I fast? Heck no!! LOL!! Most tuners brag that they can do a good job of tuning in an hour. I never could do that even when I tuned most every day. A REALLY good tuning used to take me something closer to 2 hours. I'm not the type to name names but in the past, I've wound up with customers who were previously visited by the "one hour wonders" that just weren't happy with the work of Mr. Speedy. Hey, if they can really do it, my hat is off to them. I have yet to experience one of those 1 hour tunings that -I- would be happy with. (I also play the piano and I'm kinda fussy, especially on pianos that are capable of sounding really good.) So, am I any good at it? I would say, "yes". 

I hadn't thought about Facebook. That's a good idea!


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## Goat Servant (Oct 26, 2007)

I like what Clovis suggested about tech tips & interesting trivia.
In addition I would like to hear a piano before it was tuned & after.
Mine would be a perfect example.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

One idea for your FB posts is to offer information:

"Here is a Kimball Upright model. The Kimball company was/is based in ____ and was started by Jim Kimball in ____. The upright models were extremely popular in _____ and are known for their deep ___________ sounds...."

Or:

"Did you know that ____________ wrote the famous song ___________ on a ___________ model piano? This artist loved the rich sounds of.... We tune all types of pianos, any make or model...Call us today...We travel!!!!!"

There are 10 billion angles you could use, from people much better at this than I am. Personally, I like these type of advertisements better than the "in-your-face-buy-from-us" advertisements.


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## unregistered358895 (Jul 15, 2013)

I own 3 very different businesses, so I think I can help. You are right about the yellow pages, no one uses them so save your money.

First, I would visit or at least mail a flyer with your rates and territory to every music supply store in your area. Visiting is always better as you can chat up the manager/owner and show them that you are the kind of person that they want to refer their customers to.

Then, I would do the same thing for every church and school in your area. Schedule an appointment to meet with their music director and offer a "Free Piano Inspection". You don't even have to fix anything, this is simply a chance for you to get inside of their piano to see first hand what they have and what kind of condition its in. If you really want to impress them though, do a quick clean or something. Then at the end, send them a typed review of your visit, citing any recommended repairs along with an estimate.

Finally, put up a couple of ads on your local Craigslist. Put an ad in the wanted section for pianos to restore, put an ad in the services section soliciting tuning & repair, and put an ad up with a rotating stock of extra parts and pieces you may have up for sale. Craigslist has driven more business to us than any paid advertising we have ever done.

Finally, every time you do a job, have a postcard sized paper for your customer to fill out. On the front, have a simple review of services/comments. On the back, have a form where they can list the names and phone numbers of people they know who might need your services. Tell your customer thst you will call these people. These referral cards are worth their weight in gold. Every time business is slow, find the cards with positive comments and start calling the people listed on the back. These "warm calls" will fill your schede with minimal effort.

If you do all of this, in time you will have more work than you can handle. None of these will cost you more than time, gas and paper.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

I would be all keyed up. Do you know why you left the business?

Best luck.


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## unregistered358895 (Jul 15, 2013)

On the note of Facebook, it is a great tool and we use it for all of our businesses as well. You do have to be aware though that Facebook filters are constantly changing. It used to be that when we'd post something, 50% of our contacts would see it. Right now though, we are lucky if 15% see it. It is a very handy tool for customers who are actively looking for you, but not really a great ad tool unless you are paying for Facebook ads (which we tried several times, but the craigslist ads generate 10x the traffic).


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Lots of great thoughts and suggestions! Thanks very much, especially Timberrr for taking the time to write all that out.

Bret, you ask a good question, why did I leave the business?

There were several things that happened. I had a successful piano business in Pennsylvania pre Y2k. But... as fate would have it, a divorce occurred and I met someone new, that happened to live near New Orleans, LA. She had a better job as well as kids in school. I needed a change and so I moved. (Happily married for 14 years this coming March!!)

The business did not translate well to my new location. And just about the time I had gotten it going again, we had that little Hurricane Katrina that came rolling through. Made a real mess of things and gave me a LOT of work to do putting our home back together again. That moved us into an rv and we pretty much decided that we just didn't want to live there anymore. Needless to say, the piano business pretty much ended for me at that point.

That was 9 years ago and we're still floating around in an rv. My wife's good job has ended and she's now able to draw her retirement from there. It's not enough to live well on but we could survive on that if we had to, barely. We've done some seasonal work for Amazon in Kentucky. It's a decent gig but only lasts maybe 3 months of the year. It's pretty hard on a body physically, though, and we really would like not to do this anymore. (Tonight is our last night for this season!!) 

To be honest, tuning is probably my least favorite part of the business. What I really love is the rebuilding end of things. New pinblocks, new soundboards, new bridges, those kinds of things. It's some pretty intricate and exacting woodworking and I enjoy that part of it. There is a pretty limited market for that kind of thing, though. Tuning is much quicker and more of a "bread and butter" kind of thing. The heavy work is like the "dessert". 

I think many are at a disadvantage, having to earn a living right off the bat. I'm not so concerned about making $50k my first year and $75k to $100k from there on out. I don't want to work that hard at this. Honestly, if I made $10k a year at this, it would be a huge success to me. I'm not looking for a new career, just something to supplement the income a bit until more of the retirement funds come online several years from now. At that point, I doubt I'd want to do any more than maybe just take care of a few of my "cream of the crop" favorite customers and maybe do a few shop projects just because I can and because I like to. 

I don't know if that answers your question or not but it was a good one! The business kind of got ended for me due to circumstances beyond my control. But life is changing again and I am thinking there may be a potential for this to be at least a part of what keeps our household a little better off financially than it might be without. I don't have to go back to school. I don't have a huge learning curve. I don't need tools that require financing. It's a limited market, I know, but I still think there's enough room for me especially considering my expectations.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Timberr, I especially like the idea of getting in contact with churches and schools. I've always been more fond of the "institutional" settings to work in anyway. 

As for music stores, there aren't any in the area. None. I haven't decided whether that could be a venture worth looking at in the future or not. I suspect it would be marginal at best. These days, if people want top quality anything, it's 2 days away with Amazon Prime for small stuff (like guitar strings, clarinet reeds, etc) and I doubt I'd sell enough large items (like grand pianos) to make a traditional storefront worthwhile. 

I hadn't thought of Craigslist either, but that sounds like a good place to be. 

You've given me a lot of ideas! Thanks again!!


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## unregistered358895 (Jul 15, 2013)

You are welcome. I have spent a lot of time and money marketing our businesses, and I like to help others miss out on all of the costly frills if I can!


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

I think you are doing the right thing by reopening. 

In our area, there are very few piano tuners. The last one our church used, the old guy has since died, so I'm not sure who they get anymore. 

Yellow pages are dead. I would get some flyers / pamplets made and send to every church, school, college, nursing home and music store in the area.

To reach the piano players in their homes - take out some cheap ads in your local penny saver paper / horse trader paper, etc. (Probably wouldn't hurt to take out an ad every so often in the local paper as well.)

And to get started and to get word of mouth going, you could offer to tune your local nursing home's pianos free of charge the first time.

My friend who has a piano in his home gets it tuned every 6 months or so. Once you are up and running, offer a discount for the people who want you to come every so often.

I'm guessing once you are up and running, you will have more work than you will know what to do with! Good luck!


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## Waiting Falcon (Nov 25, 2010)

If you really rather refinish/ rework the pianos... I am sure there are people who have the grands , upright or flat that need work but they may be further apart. I know I would rather have a reworked upright any day than the spinets or later model pianos. 

When I have needed a tuner, I called several of the local churches to see who they used and if they were satisfied...the bigger churches can have 30 pianos or more if they have one for each classroom.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Thanks for the ideas and the encouragement!!

A lot of the old tradesmen are dying off. And the dynamics of the business have changed as some pretty decent electronic keyboards have come into more common use. Still, there is nothing quite like the real thing, especially for accomplished piano players, both in sound and in feel. 

The rebuilding part of piano work has become pretty competitive with a fair number of the remaining seasoned tradesmen having taken up some pretty high end work, and doing their work very effectively. That said, profit margins there can be quite a bit less than one might think. As a for instance, I've seen rebuilders pay close to $10k for just a broken down old case of a grand piano because it said "Steinway" on it. Wasn't even playable. It was a carcass only. That's all they wanted. Just the replacement soundboard panel, a piece of very special spruce that's about the size of the largest part of the lid on a grand piano and maybe a little less than 3/8" thick can run in excess of $1k. That's just the piece of wood, raw, blank. The block of wood that holds the tuning pins, the hard maple that the bridges are carefully carved from, the hammers, the dampers, the strings, action parts... can add up to another $2k to $3k (+!) without going nearly as overboard as one might think. And then the cabinet will need refinished. Most are mahogany but most piano folks like a closed grain with a very smooth, sometimes mirror, sometimes satin finish, but usually no open pores at all. A person can put in a lot of man hours there, too, and finishes can get pretty expensive these days. Some of the more environmentally friendly water based finishes aren't as easy to work with as the old world lacquers were. And a person can have hundreds of man hours turning that old piece of junk piano into something that will rival (or even surpass) the highest quality pianos on display in any showroom. At that point, they might have a $25k or $30k (or more) piano... but consider how many people have that much to spend on a piano and you see how limited the market can be. Sometimes, people will have something like a family heirloom that they want restored or rebuild. But those are getting pretty rare when they find out the price tags associated with really good work.

That said, tuning is like haircuts... just about everyone who gets one is gonna need another one at some point, probably not that far in the future. Might not make a huge amount of money but a small steady supply of c-notes ain't bad either. Bread & butter.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Don't forget the colleges and universities.

In our area, within a two hour drive, there are a ton of small colleges. I'm sure that it has changed, but when I was in college, there was a piano in the lobby of every dorm, plus those in the chapel, theatre, and some lecture halls.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

I also wonder if you looked into Google advertising.

If I needed a piano tuner, I would do a search my iPhone for "piano tuner in __________, Indiana."

I know absolutely nothing about it, but am told that you can advertise fairly inexpensively, but again, I know nothing about this.


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## unregistered358895 (Jul 15, 2013)

We don't pay for Google Advertising. We just make sure that our address (or at least the city, state) and our phone number are posted multiple places on our website and on Yelp (free). You can register your business name and address in a specific category on Google for Free. It won't pop up as an advertiser on the top of the page, but we do show up on the front page of search results every time.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

clovis said:


> I also wonder if you looked into Google advertising.
> 
> If I needed a piano tuner, I would do a search my iPhone for "piano tuner in __________, Indiana."
> 
> I know absolutely nothing about it, but am told that you can advertise fairly inexpensively, but again, I know nothing about this.


Get a Google Plus Page. It is free. Get a Google Plus account for yourself first, then add a page for the business.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/pages/create

Very few people use Google Plus as a social platform, but Google maps links over to Google Plus, and many people shop for local services with Google maps. I don't know where the iPhone map app gets business data from, that is worth looking in to. 

Facebook is worthwhile because it's free and some people will share your interesting facts, cool pictures, or sale notices, but they are changing policies in January that will make the free advertising less effective. I don't plan to change how I use Facebook with the new policies, I have enough free and low cost outlets.

I suggest you also look for regional music discussion groups. They may have policies about how much you can advertise, but you might at least be able to put a byline with a link to your facebook or google plus page. An occasional intelligent/helpful post will help people think of you.

I have a website with some information for my customers, but 99% of the time I just use some of the fancy software to make it easier to post to Google+ and Facebook. I can put an article on my website and it automatically shows up on both social platforms. (There are a lot of technical steps to setting that up, and I do have fees to keep it going.) I also use the website as a place to send people at the end of an e-mail to read more about us.

One benefit of a website with good software is it keeps history well. Facebook lets old stuff get lost in the crowd, and you can't search for your old post about {xyz} when someone asks about it.

I recomend wordpress.com if you want a free website. It could be worthwhile just to have a basic page describing what you do, and showing some before/after pictures of a few jobs you are proud of. If you like the software and want to do more with it than the free platform will let you, it is easy to migrate wordpress data to another server. Expect to pay at least $45 per year if you want a full featured website. A technical friend can install WordPress and some minor customizations in about a day. Professionals might charge you $1000 for the same service.

As far as more personal advertising, sending letters to piano teachers might be helpful. Piano teachers that go to student homes know where many of the neglected instruments are and might recommend you if parents claim to have trouble getting a tuner.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

About marketing:

I have spent most of my adult life self employed, mostly in sales.

Nearly every sales and business book that I've ever read suggests that you should use your best customers to get referrals to three other businesses, and use that network to further your business. 

I never had much luck with that, but I did learn to ask the question: "Who else should I be calling on?" On occasion, I picked up some pretty good leads and ideas. "Smith Trucking uses those five part forms...have you called on them?" they would say.

In your business, you might ask if they know anyone you should be contacting. Music people seem to know each other, and tend to run in tight circles. In short, a person serious enough to ask someone to drive 70 miles and drop a C-note on a piano tuning surely knows the piano gal at church, and Cathy that lives two blocks over, plus the owner of the restaurant that has an old upright that needs tuning too.

I always made a point of asking, and sometimes, it paid off in spades. Sometimes it was so good that it was like living in high cotton.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

If you start a Facebook page, don't use the 'small business' page option.
FB has a new thing that business pages have to pay to be seen.
It has already happened to me and mine.
No one sees my page.. not even the ones that follow it.
They want $5 a day to reach about 40 people.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

So do it as a blog page maybe....


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Mine gets seen without paying. You need to start with your circle of friends subscribing to the page, then post things they will "Like" or share. As mentioned before that may change next month.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

You might want to contact maid services and cleaning companies and offer a reward for any new customer referred by them.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Any updates???


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I have an old piano. I had a guy look at you (like you he does refinishing and rebuilding). He said it is every bit as good as a Steinway and has been in the proper climate for a piano. I cannot put the money into it. You can have it. Take pictures. Before and after, for your portfolio. Give it a good home.

I think if you had a refurbished piano and took it somewhere busy, like an indoor shopping mall, you&#8217;d get a great start. Call a mall and offer to play the piano in the court for a minimal fee. People can talk to your wife while you play (or you can get a student to come in for a few bucks and play). Hand out 1/2 sheets (high gloss) with a description of what you do. Go to any local music stores and do the same thing. I&#8217;m sure a music store would let you put up an advertisement for your services. A music store can be the first place a person calls when looking for a tuner or refurbisher.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

clovis said:


> Any updates???


Yup. Was within a few days of making a start and then promptly fell down a set of steps on the ice and busted up one leg pretty badly. That was a little over two weeks ago.

Spent two days in the hospital and will spend another couple of months healing enough to be able to walk again.

Unfortunately, the piano business is on hold while I heal.

Thanks for thinking of me!


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Wow...sorry to hear that!!!! Hope you heal up soon!

Are you still thinking about the tuning business? 

Lower gas prices, since you would be traveling, will be a blessing for you, at least while they last.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

BTW, and FWIW, there are two brothers around our area that are in the piano business, and they have a pretty impressive business.

If there is a buck to be made with pianos, these guys are doing it. Tuning, repair, moving, buying, selling, trading, etc. Need a player for a party? Yep, they do that. Lessons? They do that too. Sometimes they are the broker for lessons, and get a small cut of each lesson you take with a teacher that they recommend. 

Mostly, though, these guys appear to make their best money buying and selling used pianos. They tend to buy from those who don't want a piano and sell to those who do. They have pianos for every pocket book, from $200 junkers to grand pianos.

I know that it all sounds like a basic business, but the way they do it is just brilliant. They are "out of the box" thinkers and doers.

My favorite story is that they started selling used pianos in an indoor flea market where we used to be set up. They were selling used pianos there, and met up with a teacher who wanted to give lessons, but had no piano or a place to work. They let her set up shop right there, in their booth. I think they told me they got $2 for each lesson that she gave. The real beauty is that the music filled the air, and would draw some pretty large crowds in the flea market. 

I'm telling ya, to look at those guys, you would never guess that they would be so sharp in business, but they had it going on. Super friendly folks with a very keen eye towards business and making money.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

clovis said:


> Wow...sorry to hear that!!!! Hope you heal up soon!
> 
> Are you still thinking about the tuning business?
> 
> Lower gas prices, since you would be traveling, will be a blessing for you, at least while they last.


Thanks, Clovis,

Yes, still thinking about the tuning biz. But with knowing I won't be able to walk decently for a while, it kind of took the wind out of those sails for the time being. Until I'm able to navigate things like rough ground and stairs pretty easily, I doubt I'll do much with tuning. My guess is that by the early summer, I should feel more comfortable getting around. Knowing that just about -nobody- gets a piano tuned in the middle of the summer, though, it'll be a slow start. Should pick up as we go into fall as school starts back up and the various musical stuff starts again. Oct, Nov and Dec are probably the busiest parts of the year with the holidays, Christmas parties, church programs, etc. 

Life happens. Hopefully, there will be no more of this kind of stuff (breaking bones).

I'm actually more bummed out about not being able to do much in the gardening area. I had hoped to have found a piece of dirt to play in and be growing stuff early. Doesn't look like that's gonna happen. Maybe something a little later in the year. Hope so, I love the home grown veggies.


Brian


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

You can plant beans any time. Sorry about the broken leg. Get better.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Maura said:


> You can plant beans any time. Sorry about the broken leg. Get better.


Yup, I like beans. 

I was thinking about it, though, and there are a lot of crops that I like that can be grown in the fall. (English) peas are a little tricky with the timing sometimes. But things like broccoli and cabbage do fine. Brussels sprouts seem to do best in fall from what I hear. Carrots become extra sweet if they are kept going even into winter. So if I can't do anything early, all is not lost. 

I'm also not planning on returning to our seasonal Amazon gig this fall either which means I won't have to put everything else in life on hold starting in about September. 

Thanks for the well wishes. I appreciate the good thoughts.




Brian


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

I thought of you tonight.

I found a book entitled "Learn to tune your own piano" or something like that, copyright 1960.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

All the best.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Clovis, it's not as hard as one might think. But there are some basic skills a person can learn that help a lot. It's more tedious than difficult.


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