# Interesting thought...



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I am curious.

Why do I see SO many more 'titles/comments/posts/stories' about men being unfaithful to their wives? 
I can't tell you the last time I saw a post, title, entry, etc. about an unfaithful wife?

Is that because men keep this closer to their chest? 
Is it a 'man pride' thing, that they don't want to let anyone know it happened?
Is it a 'woman blab' thing that we seem to be more open and want to talk about it?
(I don't mean the terms, "man pride" and "woman blab" as derogetory)

What do you think?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Could it be because when a man cheats on his wife it is his fault, and when a woman cheats on her husband, it is STILL his fault?


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2013)

I've never met a married woman who has said that she has had an affair.
I've also never met a married man who has said that he has had an affair.

Don't know anyone IRL who had a cheating spouse..

Perhaps Moonriver has a point though..it does seem to be the prevailing thought in movies/plays etc.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Cheating is subjective.

As i dtated in another post, my ex chested on me with a woman. She also ran up a bunch of credit card dept, in my name, that i was not aware of. Maybe both were my fault, in a backhanded way, because i allowed it. 

A local farmer just had to sell his farm, and almost everything he owned, because of dept his wife ran up. Would it have been better if she had slept with someone?

I know several men, who have stayed with their wifes, after afairs. In one case, several affairs. I had a good friend who supported his wife through an affair, only to find out she had slept with another man, who was also married. My buddy drove his truck into a bridge and took from the world a good man, and a father of three. I dont know if it was suicide, or accident, but he is still dead.

Bad people, do bad things.

But,

I am not sure if the act of sleeping with someone else is any worse then any other form of lying in a relationship.


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

A lie is a lie and it doesn't matter if a man does it or a women does it, it is still a lie. And in my honest opinion there is nothing worse then a lie, and even a tiny little lie is still a lie. If you cannot tell then truth in tiny little things how can I trust someone in the big things. I need to have trust for a relationship to work. Yep, been on that rodeo before as well and have no desire to go back.


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## tambo (Mar 28, 2003)

My coworker is dating a married man that treats her (coworker) like crap. Why she puts up with it I will never know. I have a married man at work that lets me know daily if I want to go there he wants to. I won't ever go there not because I think I'm to good ,I don't want to sell my soul to the devil. There are just as many married women at work doing the samething. They come to work bragging about it. My first husband cheated on me with a girl 10 yrs my senior because she could drink more than he could. He told my cousin that. He would've kept us both it I hadn't caught him. His friend was a cheater too. He told me he wanted one kinda girl in his bed and the kind his wife was in his home. I think you have it in you to cheat or you don't. I believe there are people that make mistakes but after the first time it's a choice.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

I think many cheaters are insecure, in some way. They are often people that are personality plus, but it's a false image.

Both my nephew and a good friend of mine's wives cheated on them, while they were deployed in Iraq. My friend's wife said the guy's (yes guys) told her she was pretty, and she needed to hear that. My buddy often told her she was pretty, but he wasnt around to tell her.

I have also known guys who even after marriage and being old enough to know better, just couldnt turn down the offer of a willing woman.

Maybe i am full of bologna, too!


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I wonder tho, IF a man told his wife she was beautiful enough to try to keep her, that, IF she wasnt all that hot in to him, might think, Well. if dum cluck thinks im all that hot, surely some other guy s think so too, and would leave him
WHEREAS
If she was insecure with herself, her emotions HER LOOKS, and the guy didnt much say anything to end that, that she might think, Im lucky, I guess that I snagged and shagged this snoock. Doubt if anybody else would have me at this age now.


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## bstuart29 (Jul 11, 2006)

I wonder if some of it may be a woman may hide it better or if a guy's wife cheats on him he is embarrassed and blames himself some for it.


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## maverickxxx (Jan 25, 2011)

Women aren't any different then men in that area. An sometimes it's both the man an the woman into freaky things. A lot of this is why I don't go out to bars. Another reason is somehow some random person will feel it is there job to tell me all there problems while I'm trying to relax an have a few drinks. As I do appreciate the fact that someone can look at me an say that person looks like they could keep a secret or be a good listener or a lot of fun I don't want to take part in those shanagins.


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

maverickxxx said:


> Women aren't any different then men in that area. An sometimes it's both the man an the woman into freaky things. A lot of this is why I don't go out to bars. Another reason is somehow some random person will feel it is there job to tell me all there problems while I'm trying to relax an have a few drinks. As I do appreciate the fact that someone can look at me an say that person looks like they could keep a secret or be a good listener or a lot of fun I don't want to take part in those shanagins.


This is where I know I am weird but I am okay with my being weird this way. If you are married you have no business being in a bar unless you are with your husband or wife and it is someplace you both want to be. Still it is in the not sure if it is a good idea category. You are just asking for something to happen. I have seen it to many times when I was dancing with a group of people. Ended up all of them divorcing and getting married to each other. Out of the entire group I was the only one that didn't hook up. It was not a good thing in my opinion.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

I will agree, its not a good idea for married folks to hang out in bars, without each other. Only bad can happen, eventually. A girls no out, or boys watchin the game occasionally isnt a problem, but eventually there will be someone who doesnt care about a ring, and it may be the ones wearing them.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Hmmmmmm

I guess what I was asking is this: Why do you see more posts where it is the woman talking about her cheating man? 
I rarely, if ever, see a post by a man, talking about his cheating woman...

I wonder why that is.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> Could it be because when a man cheats on his wife it is his fault, and when a woman cheats on her husband, it is STILL his fault?


"As she draws in a deep breath, fire in her eyes, and anger on her lips.........."

Moon, please know I am not blasting you, the person, I am blasting the notion:

"when a ___ cheats on his/her spouse, it is the ____ fault, and when a ____ cheats on his/her spouse its STILL ____ fault."

This is so much bull spit, you could fertilize the entire continent of Africa.

IMHO, and let me be as clear as I can:
Cheating, is a CHOICE.
I DON'T CARE if you BEAT your wife.......if she cheats it's HER CHOICE.
I DON'T CARE if your wife quits giving you quality time in bed.........if you cheat, it's YOUR CHOICE.

NO ONE NO ONE NO ONE NO ONE NO ONE NO ONE can 'cause you to, make you, drive you to" cheat.
Cheaters, choose, cheating, period.

If you don't like being beaten? 
Leave. 
Find a friend, relative, shelter. 
Defend yourself, and eliminate the threat if you must. 
Tell a preacher, teacher, counselor, neighbor, a 1-800 number. 
Call the police, a lawyer, the mafia.
YOU HAVE SO MANY OPTIONS to deal with the issue. 
TO say "oh I cheated because he beat me" is bull bull bull.

If you don't like her running up the credit cards, not putting out, being a slob, etc? 
Leave. 
Close the accounts down. 
Get into counseling. 
Involve a friend, relative, preacher, teacher, neighbor. 
Call a 1-800 help line. 
Call a lawyer, move out, put everything she's bought on ebay to make the money to pay the cards.....
YOU HAVE SO MANY OPTIONS to deal with the issue.
TO say "oh I cheated because my wife was such a jerk" is bull bull bull bull

Cheating is a CHOICE. Period.

:soap:


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

I do think guys are embarrased to,admit a wife cheats. Guts all secretly think they are porn,stars, snd if their eife cheats......

Problem is, cheating has little to do with sex.....


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

mickm said:


> I will agree, its not a good idea for married folks to hang out in bars, without each other. Only bad can happen, eventually. A girls no out, or boys watchin the game occasionally isnt a problem, but eventually there will be someone who doesnt care about a ring, and it may be the ones wearing them.


I disagree. A bar is only a building holding a business.

If a person wants to cheat, they will find a way to do it, even if it is in a place of worship.

I've been in plenty of bars in my life alone while married and never had men approach me for anything but conversation....it's an attitude!


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Yea, telk it yo someone who buys it.

Booze causes no ill effects, too. Give me a break...


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

For what its worth, i wouldnt want my spouse in church, either.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

mickm said:


> I do think guys are embarrased to,admit a wife cheats. Guts all secretly think they are porn,stars, snd if their eife cheats......
> 
> *Problem is, cheating has little to do with sex....*.


That is an interesting comment!
What do you think is the main reason men cheat, and what do you think is the main reason women cheat?


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Ok

Men that cheat, cheat because they can. Power

Women, i think it often is drivin by attention.

However, that wasnt what i met by my previous statement. Usually the one,wrong move is,well before the infidelity. Lying etc.....


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> That is an interesting comment!
> What do you think is the main reason men cheat, and what do you think is the main reason women cheat?


I think that people, both men and women, cheat for the same reasons, but multiple ones!

That rush of excitement of realizing that a member of the opposite sex finds us attractive!

Attraction to the unknown.

Boredom with the spouse.

Lack of real communication with the spouse.

The list goes on....


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I think that men that cheat, at one point in their married lives never gave cheating a thought. BUT, after say 3 to 5yrs the marriage is haveing problems of any sort, and he has had time to start realizeing that other women are looking favorably at him. Thwey may have been since he said I DO, but, being first in love, then in trying to make a good liveing, and haveing a family he hadnt had time to pay attention to it. Now tho, after say 5 yrs, he should have had a good living, the kids dont keep him up at night, makeing him sleeply and abliv ious to many things going around him, AND, the marrage has lost its luster, he does notice it.
At first, it seems polite to acknowledge the women loking at him, with a look back, and a nod, It sooner or later becomes an interesting avenue to explore. The women lookikng at him, on the street, or in the mall, dont dress like his wife now does, isnt shaped like his wife now is, dosent wear her haair like his wife now does, if she even has much, and seems nothing remotely like his wife. AND, they seem so much more friendly than when he WAS dateing his wife to be.
C ourse, ole Devil is working in his mind telling him ways to try to make something happen, ways to keep it from being found out, finageling, schemeing, plotting, ect.

Funny thing is, Many of these ladies, come from homes in the same condition s his. BUT, they have realized, to get a replacement for the guy they once felt held the moon and srtars of her life in his heart, She DOES have to dress sharpeer, She Does have to have an appealing shape, She does have to wear her hair which, since she has been at this longer than him, looking, has lety it grow. She DOES have to sometimes wear makeup. She likely has kids, same as his wife, and shes still, maybe liveing with her husband, just looking for his replacement.

Funnerier thing is, IF women realized that they needed to pay attention to themselves, theyed find out that there men still payed attention to them also.

VERY FEW women who are married work overtime. Most men do IF they can get overtime. AFTER My first Divorce, I always worked overtime IF I coluld get it, AND at one time had 2 jobs.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

FarmboyBill said:


> I think that men that cheat, at one point in their married lives never gave cheating a thought. BUT, after say 3 to 5yrs the marriage is haveing problems of any sort, and he has had time to start realizeing that other women are looking favorably at him. Thwey may have been since he said I DO, but, being first in love, then in trying to make a good liveing, and haveing a family he hadnt had time to pay attention to it. Now tho, after say 5 yrs, he should have had a good living, the kids dont keep him up at night, makeing him sleeply and abliv ious to many things going around him, AND, the marrage has lost its luster, he does notice it.
> At first, it seems polite to acknowledge the women loking at him, with a look back, and a nod, It sooner or later becomes an interesting avenue to explore. The women lookikng at him, on the street, or in the mall, dont dress like his wife now does, isnt shaped like his wife now is, dosent wear her haair like his wife now does, if she even has much, and seems nothing remotely like his wife. AND, they seem so much more friendly than when he WAS dateing his wife to be.
> C ourse, ole Devil is working in his mind telling him ways to try to make something happen, ways to keep it from being found out, finageling, schemeing, plotting, ect.
> 
> ...


And, it's sad that SOME men become out-of-shape, sloppy, unshaven, arm-pit scratching bums after they are married awhile!


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Were you and I married?????????? lol

Ill tell you what. IF the first and especially the 3rd had kept themselves up, Ida quit scratching alls in my overhalls. The last had been a prostie, and I well knew that she could do better than me anytime she wanted to. She had the experience, she had the bod , and the mental experience to fly off to another anytime she felt the need.
BUT she was preg, and got heavy, and it never went down. I got to where I didnt care, other than to go to work, and farm. She quit being something I was proud of, was scared of loseing, something I thought about during the day at work, and couldnt wait to get home after work to be with her.
Say it all you want, BUT I Firmly believe that when a woman lets herself go, shes sooner or later letting her spouse go also.
Why do you think that m,en look at other women? Is it cause they look at the men, maybe smile at them. NO. If we ALL went around nekked, and a man was walking down the street, or in the mall, and a woman looked at him and smiled. It wouldnt faze him NEAR as much as it does when a woman is dressed.
Same with the VS gals. If they walked down the runway nekked, some of them would be revolting. BUT, with SOME, not all, of the clothes they wear, they look stunning, provocative and desirious.
When i got married the last time, My X had me wrapped around her left nipple all the time, I knew that, and I hated that. I felt like I had been emasculated, and my soul duty was to be at Xs beck and call. I also knew I couldnt help it, or help myself. That was the way it was, and I didnt want to change it. That was for around 6 mos to a year.
I esspecially hated it and her cause she convinenced me to sell the 40 and move into town.
In town, I had nothing much to do, and I had got too much time on my hands. i didnt care after awhile to hurry home. Didnt care to spend hours setting in a house, wztching TV, then going to bed, just to do it all over in the morning.
Yes, men are slobs. no doubt to it. But, come to think on it, Show me a tv show where a mans a slob and his wife is sexey.


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## bstuart29 (Jul 11, 2006)

Ardie/WI said:


> I disagree. A bar is only a building holding a business.
> 
> If a person wants to cheat, they will find a way to do it, even if it is in a place of worship.
> 
> I've been in plenty of bars in my life alone while married and never had men approach me for anything but conversation....it's an attitude!


 
I think what Mick is saying and I agree don't put yourself in situations where you might be tempted and when consuming alcohol ya could be tempted even more. Cheating is still a willful act but why even take the chance you might be tempted and add in for women your drink could be spiked with some drug when ya not looking. If ya married going out to a bar with some friends is ok but if it's just you not a good idea in my opinion.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Well, when I asked my EX why he cheated, he said it was for the challenge. You know, you get the thrill of the chase sort of thing.

Others would say that it involves a lack of character. 

When I worked for Airborne/DHL, there were several women who were, shall we say, commitment challenged. One went through three fellows that I know about in the building. When she flew to Texas to visit her son in boot camp, she managed to pick up another bootie there. She was so angry when she found out that one was married! I thought it was hilarious! :rotfl: Here she was, shacked up with a former supervisor, (yes that cost him his job) sleeping with the night steward, (to help keep her job) and finally, nailing the terminal manager. She was a busy girl. 
Another female was divorced and became involved with a lesbian for awhile. They were open about it. I didn't have a problem with it, but it caused pain to the one, when the other eventually left her and married a male employee. I was assured that the girls "kept in touch," though. I have a problem with that. 

Then there was the female driver who would tell you she was happily married, when in point of fact, she traded sexual favors for vicodin. 

One of the few women besides myself who was faithful, was a lesbian lady. She and her partner built a house together right before the big implosion. 

The men were about the same, if not worse. Some were good, some were bad, and some just came to work so they could hunt.


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## maverickxxx (Jan 25, 2011)

Well Laura if u want the answer on why u don't hear about men talking about it is we don't talk about our feelings. But I'm sure u have heard that before. I don't think ull ever here me say I just needed to get that off my chest I feel better now. For my opinion if u wanted to see if there was something eating at a Man U could check out his wrk load an whats accomplished. Least that's for me. But that's situational to. If u already have two years worth of firewood cut split n stacked n he's out sun up till sun down working on next ten years worth something is on his mind. Specially if he has a cheating spouse.


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## doodlemom (Apr 4, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> Could it be because when a man cheats on his wife it is his fault, and when a woman cheats on her husband, it is STILL his fault?


Yes I had a female friend who explained it to me that way. I just nod with the poker face and not say anything, but think to myself there's no excuse. I distance myself from that too as when you see the "loyal" wife in action you reflect on the value as a friend.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

bstuart29 said:


> I think what Mick is saying and I agree don't put yourself in situations where you might be tempted and when consuming alcohol ya could be tempted even more. Cheating is still a willful act but why even take the chance you might be tempted and add in for women your drink could be spiked with some drug when ya not looking. If ya married going out to a bar with some friends is ok but if it's just you not a good idea in my opinion.


My word! If you're THAT easily tempted, don't go to the grocery store either!


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Ardie/WI said:


> My word! If you're THAT easily tempted, don't go to the grocery store either!


If alcohol doesnt change your state of mind, why is drunk driving illegal?

your trying to tell an eskimo about ice, here.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

When partners are unavailable for emotional intimacy or unable to achieve emotional intimacy, they will look for it elsewhere and go for the next best thing, sex. I think we hear about more male cheaters because men have a harder time with emotional intimacy than women. They desire it, but they can't quite fully articulate the need.

I think women fear their husbands having an emotional affair more than they do a sexual encounter.

Then there are the people who cannot leave a relationship until they have another one established. They cheat their way from one relationship to the next. Both men and women do this.

Then there are the couples who thrive on Drama and Jealousy. They may not actually have sex with others, but they sure like to make their partner think it's in the works. These insecure people are thoroughly validated by the idea somebody else wants their mate, and the other is validated by the public display of jealousy and possessiveness of their mate. Their make up sex must be good because they'll play the game often.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

FarmboyBill said:


> I think that men that cheat, at one point in their married lives never gave cheating a thought. BUT, after say 3 to 5yrs the marriage is haveing problems of any sort, and he has had time to start realizeing that other women are looking favorably at him. Thwey may have been since he said I DO, but, being first in love, then in trying to make a good liveing, and haveing a family he hadnt had time to pay attention to it. Now tho, after say 5 yrs, he should have had a good living, the kids dont keep him up at night, makeing him sleeply and abliv ious to many things going around him, AND, the marrage has lost its luster, he does notice it.


What I am hearing you say is this: A man is so shallow and uncommitted to his wife and family, the first time the dishes are not done, and a cute skirt looks at him......his mind forgets he is married.

*If* that is what you are saying, if I was a man, I'd be offended.
Not all men are horny shallow pigs.



> At first, it seems polite to acknowledge the women loking at him, with a look back, and a nod, It sooner or later becomes an interesting avenue to explore. The women lookikng at him, on the street, or in the mall, dont dress like his wife now does, isnt shaped like his wife now is, dosent wear her haair like his wife now does, if she even has much, and seems nothing remotely like his wife. AND, they seem so much more friendly than when he WAS dateing his wife to be.


What I am hearing you say is this: If a woman in not Donna Reed by day and Linda Lovelace at night, rockin' the barbie bod, and just gushes over her man day and night, he will look else where.

*If* that is what you are saying, if I was a man, them would be fighting words.
Again, not all men are shallow pigs.



> C ourse, ole Devil is working in his mind telling him ways to try to make something happen, ways to keep it from being found out, finageling, schemeing, plotting, ect.


For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
For every 'devil' on the left shoulder, there is an 'angel' on the right.
Again.....I truly really believe, there is more to men than their bedroom appetite.



> Funny thing is, Many of these ladies, come from homes in the same condition s his. BUT, they have realized, to get a replacement for the guy they once felt held the moon and srtars of her life in his heart, She DOES have to dress sharpeer, She Does have to have an appealing shape, She does have to wear her hair which, since she has been at this longer than him, looking, has lety it grow. She DOES have to sometimes wear makeup. She likely has kids, same as his wife, and shes still, maybe liveing with her husband, just looking for his replacement.
> 
> Funnerier thing is, IF women realized that they needed to pay attention to themselves, they'ed find out that there men still payed attention to them also.


Sweet FBB, I am living proof this is enough bull spit to fertilize all of Asia.
At 23 years of age, I was 5'7" and 120lbs. 
Today, after having 3 babies in 4 years?
I am 5'7" and 125 lbs.
I have a black cocktail dress (size 4) that I have had for 17 years, and yeah, it still fits. 
I can rock a pair of stilettos like it's my job. I still get carded for cigarettes and alcohol. 
My dh NEVER heard the word no. Big screen tv? I worked extra shifts. IF he wanted to go racing, I worked extra shifts. 
If he wanted to go to an amusement park (a place that short circuits me), I worked extra shifts, and we went. 
The house is always clean, picked up. Dinner is ready, and it's not 'delivery or reservations'. It's home cooked meals. 
I learned how to drywall, cause he didn't want to do it. 
I volunteered at the race track to make the money so my kid could play hockey. 90 hours, in 6 days. He would not help. He didn't have any dinner for me when I got home, heck he didn't even clean up the mess he made all over the house for the 13 hours I was gone, working in the hot sun.....
I garden, can, clip coupons. I shop for myself at good will while his clothes come from Eddie Bauer. 
His truck has full coverage insurance, my car has PLPD.......and I could go on and on and on.
I NEVER complained about money. We never fought.
I tried FOR YEARS to talk to him "what's up, can I help, what can I do" and all I ever heard was "nothings wrong".
Lies, lies, lies.
I raised, homeschooled and have 3 AMAZING children in college......while he was watching sports on tv or doing whatever his "activity for himself' was. 

So um, yeah......
Some guys are just dirtbags, and it has nothing to do with 'how a woman looks'.



> VERY FEW women who are married work overtime. Most men do IF they can get overtime. AFTER My first Divorce, I always worked overtime IF I coluld get it, AND at one time had 2 jobs.


Hmmmmmmmm
I held two jobs PLUS a third job May-Sept (for 6 years).
Someone had to pay for 'his fun'.

I firmly believe there are good honest committed men out there.
I know temptation is everywhere.
Those who succumb to temptation, reveal their true character, which isn't worth two cents waiting on change........and it has nothing NOTHING to do with the other person (man or woman).

:soap:


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

I definitely cant wear a size 4 cocktail dress, but i can sheetrock a wall!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I can sheet rock a wall IN a size 4 cocktail dress!!!!


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I can sheet rock a wall IN a size 4 cocktail dress!!!!



I bet you can! :viking:


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

mickm said:


> If alcohol doesnt change your state of mind, why is drunk driving illegal?
> 
> your trying to tell an eskimo about ice, here.


I'm not certain what you're talking about to be honest.

If a person cannot control the amount of alcohol they consume, they flat out shouldn't drink it! 

And, I'm not certain what drinking alcohol has to do with cheating. IMHO, if a person uses too much alcohol as an excuse for poor behavior, they really wanted to do that behavior in the first place.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Laura, IF I said that ALL women were like in my above post. im sorry, I didnt mean that. I MENT that MOST women were like that. 
Ill bet IFFN there were any men around while you were doin your sheet rocking in a #4 dress, You wouldnt have to do it long lol


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

When I was in the Navy I saw a lot of cheating spouses, both male and female: guys who took up with prostitutes or easy women while on deployment or in liberty ports; women cheating on their husbands while their husbands were on deployment (these were generally known as 'West Pac Widows'). I saw a lot of pain inflicted and suffered by all parties concerned. I never really understood the why of any of it.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Laura said:


> When partners are unavailable for emotional intimacy or unable to achieve emotional intimacy, they will look for it elsewhere and go for the next best thing, sex. I think we hear about more male cheaters because men have a harder time with emotional intimacy than women. They desire it, but they can't quite fully articulate the need.
> 
> I think women fear their husbands having an emotional affair more than they do a sexual encounter.
> 
> ...


I see what you are saying!!

Here's what I think:

Women need to feel secure, loved, cherished, important. They want to 'complete'.
They love to know that they are heard and taken seriously.

Men want to be respected, honored, cherished, loved through their "own interpertation" of their shortcomings (don't make enough $, can't fix the car, etc.) Men don't want to hear a lot of jibber jabber, they don't want to have deep emotional discussions where we compare and contrast childhood baggage and today's issues.

When they come home from a long day at work, or in from a long day in the yard / farm......a good meal, a warm smile from a wife that is genuinely happy to see his face. Let him talk about his day, or let him eat. He needs a woman that can 'read him'. 
Sometimes a shoulder rub, and a kiss on the cheek and a 'you're an amazing man' whispered in his ear (and it has to be genuine and from the heart) is enough fuel for his soul to get him to the moon and back. It assures him that he is loved, honored, cherished, appreciated, respected, admired, and needed.

Women disconnect from men because they are either uncommitted hussy's or they are seeking that security and deep connecting love that is missing in her life. 
Either way, shame on her for stepping out. Either fix what you got, or can it THEN move on.

Men disconnect from women because they don't feel respected, needed, or like a man. 
When women demean men, talk to them like they are children, roll their eyes, etc they say "you are insignifigant, and useless" (well except for the pay check part) and men will step out looking for that missing piece. 
Shame on him for stepping out. Either fix what you got, or can it THEN move on.

Sometimes, the man didn't do anything wrong. The cheatin' woman was a puke.
Sometimes, the women didn't do anything wrong. The cheatin' man was a puke.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I see what you are saying!!
> 
> Here's what I think:
> 
> ...


Laura, iffen I acted like that when DH came home, he'd take me to the nearest psychiatric ward! :teehee:


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

Ardie/WI said:


> Laura, iffen I acted like that when DH came home, he'd take me to the nearest psychiatric ward! :teehee:


 You gotta say it like you really mean it.

And sometimes no matter what, it will never be enough.


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## bstuart29 (Jul 11, 2006)

Ardie/WI said:


> My word! If you're THAT easily tempted, don't go to the grocery store either!


You really miss the point it doesn't mean every guy will be tempted and cheat on his wife or gf ut especially alcohol involved you could do something stupid or a woman could just claim you did. Id compare it to be a christian you don't put yourself in risky situations or day about going to bad neighborhoods, It doesn't mean ya do something or something will occur but if ya stay away you know it can't occur for sure. This also will give your lady(wife, gf) piece of mind, even if she trusts you completely sometimes those feelings creep into her mind. Would I be tempted myself if I was in a bar no I don't think so but so that my lady didn't have anything to worry about I'd stay away unless she wanted to go to the bar then I'd go with her.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Laura said:


> You gotta say it like you really mean it.
> 
> And sometimes no matter what, it will never be enough.


I guess I had a short attention span when it came to men most of my life until I met DH He is my third DH. Been together 35 years.

To be honest, I didn't make a lot of nice-nice with him even in the beginning. 

It was like I had a sign on that said, "This it it! Take it or leave it because there will be another truck in the driveway in a week if you leave!".

It didn't help that every Saturday both my ex and an old boyfriend stopped in for a visit. Old BF was married. Ex was picking up our kids. I guess it kept him on his toes.

Laura, if it is never enough for a man, he isn't the right man!


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## bajiay (Apr 8, 2008)

Laura,
My husband told me over the weekend that it was because I had been sick for so long. (leukemia, gallbladder) And because our daughter had been sick for so long as well. (brain tumor, neurological and endocrine issues) HE felt he was being put on the back burner even though I still gave him sex. Well, what you said earlier about all the stuff you did for your hubby is about like how our marriage has been, EVEN when I was dying from leukemia! My hubby has done about as much as yours did to help as well. 

That's ok because I am healthy now. Will graduate from pre-med in December. Daughter's health has vastly improved and she is graduating two years early in May. Us girls are ready to start a new chapter in our lives! Good riddance!


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## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I can sheet rock a wall IN a size 4 cocktail dress!!!!


Hope it's not the dress you started the thread about in the Sewing Forum. That was just too dang pretty to muss up.


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## no1cowboy (May 2, 2004)

I had a similar experience my wife and I were doing great worked together cleaned and cooked together but when I got sick and could no longer work for a living she stepped out. and then got out.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I can sheet rock a wall IN a size 4 cocktail dress!!!!


Now your just braggin!


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Ardie/WI said:


> I'm not certain what you're talking about to be honest.
> 
> If a person cannot control the amount of alcohol they consume, they flat out shouldn't drink it!
> 
> And, I'm not certain what drinking alcohol has to do with cheating. IMHO, if a person uses too much alcohol as an excuse for poor behavior, they really wanted to do that behavior in the first place.


I am swying alcohol impedes judgement. Heck its not me saying it, its every law enforcment agency, in our nation.

I am also saying that there is two reasons people go to bars alone, on,a regular basis, they have a drinking problem and are social drinkers, or they are looking to hook up.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Dang Mick, when your right, U tend to stay that way.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

I can honestly say that I've done things under the influence of alcohol that I wouldn't have done otherwise. (never while I was married or otherwise committed, however - never had that much to drink).

Now, you may fairly argue that I never did anything under the influence of alcohol that that I didn't "want" to do otherwise. I will counter, though, that normally, I can weigh and balance what I want at the moment against the big picture and behave accordingly. Some lessons are learned the hard way.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

FarmboyBill said:


> Dang Mick, when your right, U tend to stay that way.


Heck, when i am wrong i stay that way, too! 

I have irish alzheimers, i never forget anything.


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Just saw this and had to post, sorry but it is my humor for the day...


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## bstuart29 (Jul 11, 2006)

NoClue said:


> I can honestly say that I've done things under the influence of alcohol that I wouldn't have done otherwise. (never while I was married or otherwise committed, however - never had that much to drink).


Like sheertrock a wall in a size 4 cocktail dress?:grin:


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

NoClue said:


> I can honestly say that I've done things under the influence of alcohol that I wouldn't have done otherwise. (never while I was married or otherwise committed, however - never had that much to drink).
> 
> Now, you may fairly argue that I never did anything under the influence of alcohol that that I didn't "want" to do otherwise. I will counter, though, that normally, I can weigh and balance what I want at the moment against the big picture and behave accordingly. Some lessons are learned the hard way.


 I'm pretty sure it was the alcohol that made me puke. I didn't want to, honest. There is no weighing and balancing a choice on that.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> When they come home from a long day at work, or in from a long day in the yard / farm......a good meal, a warm smile from a wife that is genuinely happy to see his face. Let him talk about his day, or let him eat. He needs a woman that can 'read him'.
> Sometimes a shoulder rub, and a kiss on the cheek and a 'you're an amazing man' whispered in his ear (and it has to be genuine and from the heart) is enough fuel for his soul to get him to the moon and back. It assures him that he is loved, honored, cherished, appreciated, respected, admired, and needed.


Heck, that's how *I* like to be treated when I get home from work!!!

Apparently I'm Ward Cleaver ... in a black cocktail dress ( though not a size 4 ... oh heck no!) ound:


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Ward didnt wear a size 4, either


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Ward was a dude ... he didn't have to worry about keeping his schoolgirl figure!


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Seriously, though ... most surveys I've read indicate fewer women cheat than men. I'd have to guess that most married women are less interested in casual one-night-stands than are men. We probably evolved that way, since woman have much more at stake in any sexual encounter (i.e., the possibility of pregnancy). 

I think the stakes may be higher for women in other ways, too. For instance, a woman who is financially dependent upon her mate may hesitate to cheat out of fear of being caught and proverbially killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. Similarly, a dependent woman may be reluctant to complain about her husband's infidelities. I'm pretty sure that my mother wasn't thrilled about my father's habit of spending every Friday night at the booby bar, but she wasn't really in a position to do anything about it.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

bstuart29 said:


> Like sheertrock a wall in a size 4 cocktail dress?:grin:


Different lesson


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Tommyice said:


> Hope it's not the dress you started the thread about in the Sewing Forum. That was just too dang pretty to muss up.


The one in the sewing forum is the style I am in love with now.
The cocktail dress has about 1 yard of fabric, where the one in the sewing forum has 5-6 yards of material.
The cocktail dress has a deep "V" cut in the back, and if I bend over, well, it's a "full moon"!!!:shocked:


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

mickm said:


> I am swying alcohol impedes judgement. Heck its not me saying it, its every law enforcment agency, in our nation.
> 
> I am also saying that there is two reasons people go to bars alone, on,a regular basis, they have a drinking problem and are social drinkers, or they are looking to hook up.


I guess the bars that I went to alone were a lot different than the ones you did! Maybe it's a "'Wisconsin thing".

Even when married, I went to a bar alone without even thinking about cheating. I am/was a very independent woman. I wasn't "hit on" often, probably because of my attitude and, if I was, I quite often ended up having a nice conversation with the guy!


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

willow_girl said:


> Seriously, though ... most surveys I've read indicate fewer women cheat than men. I'd have to guess that most married women are less interested in casual one-night-stands than are men. We probably evolved that way, since woman have much more at stake in any sexual encounter (i.e., the possibility of pregnancy).
> 
> I think the stakes may be higher for women in other ways, too. For instance, a woman who is financially dependent upon her mate may hesitate to cheat out of fear of being caught and proverbially killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. Similarly, a dependent woman may be reluctant to complain about her husband's infidelities. I'm pretty sure that my mother wasn't thrilled about my father's habit of spending every Friday night at the booby bar, but she wasn't really in a position to do anything about it.


Is this where the expression, "make it a double" originated?


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

BOOBY BAR LOL lol. Is that what there called there? lol.
Was she like what was said on Big Bang Theory. She dont care where I drive to, just so long as I park it in her garage lol.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

mickm said:


> I am swying alcohol impedes judgement. Heck its not me saying it, its every law enforcment agency, in our nation.
> 
> I am also saying that there is two reasons people go to bars alone, on,a regular basis, they have a drinking problem and are social drinkers, or they are looking to hook up.


That may be true for you and the people of your area, but it's not true for me.

The bar is the only place in town open in the evening. I drive my DD to town for her stuff, like dump her off at church, and I go to the bar to kill time rather than make two trips to town. I drink short shots of 30 proof in 24 oz sodas. I get to talk logging and fishing and hunting, meet new people, catch up with friends, play pool, dance with Indians, sit with the other women when they're there, razz or assist the bouncer who is a friend, or watch TV. 

At no time has my presence there been interpretted as a "drinking problem" or I'm there to get laid.

The alternative would be to go to a man's house and watch TV. I'd rather my car be seen at the bar with a full parking lot than parked in front of a guy's house, especially since I am not interested in townie men any more than I'm interested in alcoholic men.

Truth is, I've been groped more in churches than I have in bars. I'm glad Baptists stay out of them.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Laura, 

I'm pretty sure that you might find a Baptist if you checked, lol.

The deal with cheaters is that they don't care if their legal partner is hurt. The sex is only one part of cheating. The lies and detachment from their primary relationship is the real biggie. 

And Bill, I worked 60 hour weeks and never cheated on my cheater. It's a matter of principles. Either you have them or you don't.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Ardie, WIllow......I sent you a pm


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Honestly, i was just shattered by ex cheatting on me. I couldnt have seen it coming, or how i felt about it.

I am not going to say i never lookex st another woman, but i certainly had no desire to dleep with them. What was strange was how my ex made a big deal about women talking to me.

A cheater stesls domething from you, and makes you question everything they told you. My ex has spologised for her actions, but i still dont think dhe underdtands the dsmage she did. Maybe i sm unique. I never hated her, i hsted myself. It took timr to get where i coild gorgive her, and forgive myself.

I saw a lady about a year after my divorce, wjo readily admitted to cheating on her ex with numerous men. She seemed to feel justified in her action, since he worked a lot, and gave her little attention. O couldnt get past it. She didnt leave him because he offered financial security.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

She did eventually leave him of course, after he lost his job. Another action, she saw no problem with.

I dont know what else to say, excrpt people do terrible, and wonderful things.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

mickm said:


> A cheater steals something from you, and makes you question everything they told you. My ex has apologised for her actions, but i still dont think she underdstands the damage she did. Maybe i am unique. I never hated her, i hated myself. It took time to get where i could forgive her, and forgive myself.


They steal your hopes, dreams and security.
They steal a part of your soul.
They don't understand, or care about the damage. 
They 'minimalize' it and turn it around and try to make YOU feel bad.
They become indignant, irritated, and hateful when you have days where you are consumed by depression.
They don't comprehend the damage because they don't care.

Then the worst?
You turn on yourself. 
"how could I be so blind, how could I be so stupid, how did I not see this"
"how could i have been so ignorant to believe them".
"what is wrong with me"
"what did I do to make them do this, what can I do better"
"this MUST be my fault"

This is worse than the offense, in my opinion.

We isolate, insulate, or we try to please them to 'earn' their love.
How stupid. It will never be enough.

There is a special corner in a real hot place for cheaters that don't repent.
Of this, I am sure.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> BOOBY BAR LOL lol. Is that what there called there? lol.


Not really, but I didn't think I could get away with using the 'T' word here.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

willow_girl said:


> Not really, but I didn't think I could get away with using the 'T' word here.


We call 'em "shake joints". HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Ardie, WIllow......I sent you a pm


:dance: :bow: :nanner: :banana:


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Laura said:


> That may be true for you and the people of your area, but it's not true for me.
> 
> The bar is the only place in town open in the evening. I drive my DD to town for her stuff, like dump her off at church, and I go to the bar to kill time rather than make two trips to town. I drink short shots of 30 proof in 24 oz sodas. I get to talk logging and fishing and hunting, meet new people, catch up with friends, play pool, dance with Indians, sit with the other women when they're there, razz or assist the bouncer who is a friend, or watch TV.
> 
> ...




I can certainly see how a bar can be a "community center" . I will aldo say i was talking in general terms. Whats genarslly true, is not what is always true. I am shocked that folks in a bar, dont think other fks in a bar, have a drinking problem. I, personally wouldnt give a spit what folks thought of me, but i dont care for tv. I would probably find a quite spot, and read a book.

I will agree with ya, churches are dangerous places. Really similar places, just drunk on different things.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

People have problems no matter where you go. Just because somebody has a drinking problem, doesn't mean it has to be my problem. At least in the bar it's controlled. It's a little tougher to deal with the drunks who show up at the bonfires.

Now the weather is warming up, other activities will start up. Our winter social lives were seriously curtailed when the 3 story community arts center burned where we had music and dancing, and the owners of the coffee house died and the place closed. 

One of my social venues I find particularly emotionally draining is a fish camp inhabited by rehab graduates. Yes, they are friends and very nice people. I am always invited to their gatherings. I always take a big cobbler and help with the kitchen, cooking and clean up work. The only topics these people can discuss fully are their addictions, their issues with their substance and their triggers. They are like Cub Scouts and Brownies when it comes to being adults, though. It's verbatim right out of their handbook as they struggle to apply it to real life.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Heck, that's how *I* like to be treated when I get home from work!!!
> 
> Apparently I'm Ward Cleaver ... in a black cocktail dress ( though not a size 4 ... oh heck no!) ound:


Somehow I have never quite pictured you anything like Ward Cleaver!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Judy in IN said:


> Laura,
> 
> I'm pretty sure that you might find a Baptist if you checked, lol.


I gotta go along with that... I have always heard that anytime you find four baptists congregated, check around, you will find a fifth somewhere. My experience living for 30 sum odd years here in the bible belt has confirmed that many times over!


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Laura said:


> People have problems no matter where you go. Just because somebody has a drinking problem, doesn't mean it has to be my problem. At least in the bar it's controlled. It's a little tougher to deal with the drunks who show up at the bonfires.
> 
> Now the weather is warming up, other activities will start up. Our winter social lives were seriously curtailed when the 3 story community arts center burned where we had music and dancing, and the owners of the coffee house died and the place closed.
> 
> One of my social venues I find particularly emotionally draining is a fish camp inhabited by rehab graduates. Yes, they are friends and very nice people. I am always invited to their gatherings. I always take a big cobbler and help with the kitchen, cooking and clean up work. The only topics these people can discuss fully are their addictions, their issues with their substance and their triggers. They are like Cub Scouts and Brownies when it comes to being adults, though. It's verbatim right out of their handbook as they struggle to apply it to real life.


Oh, i am sure thsts right!

The only thing worse the drunks and druggies, is a group of drunks and druggies, that dont use anymore! Lol

Smalk towns alk have their challenges. Most of kansas is dying for similar reasons.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Mick, I checked recently, and theres fewer residents in Doniphan Co than there was at Statehood in 1860, tho most of the towns have way more residents then back then.

Thinkin I might have already stated this. If so, sorry.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Yea, small towns are dying everywhere!


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