# Out driving the horses yesterday



## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

Had some friends come up yesterday so we hitched the horses and took a drive. Went around the block, about 10 miles. Weather was beautiful and we stopped for a picnic lunch. The horses enjoyed it too and were still up in the lines at the finish.


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## d'vash (Apr 25, 2013)

Spectacular!


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## galfriend (Nov 19, 2004)

WOW!!! What a view! Beautiful horses!
Thanks for sharing for those of us just frothing at the bits to be doing something like this


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Oh, that looks like fun! And what beautiful scenery! I'd much rather be doing that. Instead, I've been discing, discing, discing, discing with the team. Oh gosh my back is NOT happy about bouncing all over that pasture. I foolishly let the latrines build up the last couple of years and now there's nothing for it but to disk the heck out of them and then re-seed. The real kicker is that I bought a new wagon last week and haven't even gotten to take it out yet! The plan is that late next week, after I'm done renovating this pasture, we will take the new wagon a few miles down the road and strip our friend's apple trees. Then we will have a cider pressing party. If I am not laid up from riding this bucking disc, that is!


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## Jupiter (Dec 30, 2012)

That is so cool!


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Oh my goosh... what fun! And what a great road to drive on!!


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## Susan Mary (May 8, 2004)

Doesn't get any better than that!


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## coonhunter (Sep 7, 2013)

Great pictures and fine looking horses.


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## plowhand (Aug 14, 2005)

I second that.....motion carried! Sure is pretty country!


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

Beautiful team and location! 

We are getting our first team in the spring. I am learning all I can now, and I have a question....is it normal/acceptable for the tongue to be that far forward? I have seen all sorts of photos and totally get that it's position varies with size of horses. I'm just curious about this, as this photo is the first time I've seen it that far, and I am curious if there is any risk or downside to that? I honestly am not criticizing nor do I mean any offense. I am just trying to get an eye for adjustments.


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

I think I am ready to move. Beautiful. I can practically hear the clip-clop. That has to be the best way to see the country side.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

Redgate - you are right it is long for the horses. It is the common length for draft horses. The tongue had the hardware on the front when I bought it and I just have never got around to shortening it. I bought the one ton Pioneer gear and built the box for it.

When I first bought the team I kept them at an Amish friend's farm. He used them too and so when I bought the harness I had the tugs made longer to fit the poles on the Amish equipment. Glad you said something, now maybe I will get around to shortening the tongue. Have already shortened some of the other ones.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Gorgeous!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Makes me miss WI so much!! Beautiful pictures!


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks, Rod44, I was just curious. We are looking at pioneer. I love their stuff, just wish it wasn't all so expensive. I am totally in love with their new buckboard, though a bit small for a big team, it is so perfect for what we need around our farm. Maybe we should do the gear and build a similar one....


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## Cashs Cowgirl (Jan 26, 2006)

What a lovely day and a pretty team


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Awesome!


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

What a great way to spend a day!


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

If you kink the team as far to one side as the steering linkage will allow, how much room do you really have between the end of the evener and the wagon box? And if one horse gets a bit ahead of the other while you are turned that sharp, are you going to get the end of the evener hung up under the wagon deck if the tongue is shorter? It this was a buggy, then I'd say the pole was a bit long, but the physics can be a bit different with a rubber auto-tired wagon gear.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

I don't think I would move the double tree back any. On my other rigs I just cut 10 - 12 inches off of the end of the pole and thus hook them back shorter. I already shortened the tugs by about that much, just haven't got around to the poles. Other than looks, it doesn't really matter.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Oh, I guess I'm confused. You'd cut off the tip of the pole? Or the heel of the pole? I thought you were talking about cutting off the heel of the pole, to pull the evener closer to the wagon.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Did you have to add more links to the heel chains to get them to reach to the evener? I'm looking at the angle of the hames and traces and it looks like when the horses are in draft - actively pulling - the angle should be just right. Doesn't look like the evener needs to be moved or the traces shortened or anything.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Since the tongue is tapered, if you cut off the tip of the pole and re-installed the tongue cap, would it fit the slightly-larger new tip of the pole? And would you still be able to fit your neck yoke ring over the end of the pole? When I make a pole, I start with a standard milled 4x4 (3.5" x 3.5" actual) that tapers to...... I think 2.5" x 2.5" at the tip. Some of my neck yoke rings fit a little close on that size, but they all fit.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

No. I would cut off the front and be able to move the horses back closer to the wagon. Then it would look more to scale. Don't want the double trees any closer to the wagon for good clearance.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

I really think the pole length on the wagon is fine. If you aren't moving the evener/doubletree, those ponies are correctly positioned. Pole should reach the nose tip when animal is resting, like them standing by the gate. Shortening that pole, is likely to allow the yoke to come off when they move forward, especially if you don't have them snuggly fitted with tight traces and pole straps. Length also gives ponies more leverage to manage the wagon load weight.

You may see shorter poles, but they are not helpful to working animals with weight behind them.

We do Combined Driving, use short poles with a fixed yoke on the end, breast collar harness. But nothing can come off while horses are working like with a farm pole and yoke that slides on the tip end.

I would leave things alone on your present set-up, not moving the evener, or shortening the pole. Ponies are a bit forward in position, but you don't want things to bind up on tight turns, so you can't move anything closer to the vehicle, possibly causing problems in the future turns.

Cute ponies, looks like a great day to be out and about in a wagon. Lucky you!


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

More can come of the pole for overall looks. Just drop a couple more links and the noses will still be at the front of the pole. The front of the pole has a safety snap for the neck yoke ring and I also put a safety strap on it. No coming off. That load on a light wagon is no problem for the horses leverage wise. It is really all about looks just as in combined driving. Pull the pin on your pole and extend it out another foot and see how it looks and how much more room they need to maneuver.

http://s716.photobucket.com/user/chochocookie/media/DSC04271.jpg.html


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Have to disagree with you on short poles for Combined Driving being short for looks only. With the turns, spacing of Hazard parts, short pole, with fixed yoke end, lets you turn shorter, than pole set-ups you have in your photos. No tip forward of the yoke at all.

Harness systems are not the same either, because animals are not doing the same kind of work.

One of those "even though the parts LOOK similar, they don't work the same" things. I have used working horses in heavy Draft harness, long draft poles, as well as the Combined Driving horse set-ups, so I am VERY familiar with the good and bad features of both kinds of harness and vehicles. The ponies to the wagonette, do have their nose longer than the shortened pole end. Your choice, but to me, not the best set up for that vehicle.

That stuff counts, could get you in trouble doing Marathon in a CDE. Fixed yoke, on shorter metal pole, removes the issues of a loose ring yoke or a chance of getting pole tip hung up on a post or fence. Trust me, we have done a LOT of changing of poles and yokes with the Pairs over the years, to get things right when we use them. Here is our Pair at a competition last June, with the short pole and fixed neck yoke on it. They are wearing Yankee breeching, because we find it much more effective than the around the rump style breeching, in controlling the vehicle.

http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/goodhors1/media/DSCN1905_zps5f34bfce.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Again, your wagon, pole and ponies. Do what you like with them if you think pole end is too long. I was sharing historic knowledge in fitting animals and equipment, my own experiences, for why no change was needed.


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

Wow! The closer we get to getting our team, the more nervous I become. Fitting and adjusting seems to complex compared to saddle horses! It also seems there is a reason for every way of adjusting. Sorry to hijack such a pleasant thread Rod44, but this is fascinating, and highly educational for me!!


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Forgot to add, with the Combined Driving, we are using self-supporting, short poles, so equines carry no pole weight on the breast collars. There is an adjustable spring inside the part attaching to the carriage, so pole holds itself up in the air, not the horses. Pole and fixed yoke end stays up in the air when horses are not even close!

Draft and a number of light carriage use a dropped pole or tongue, which is carried by the yoke as shown in the original post. This is why the slide-on yoke usually has a longer pole end sticking out, and the safety straps to prevent the yoke coming off to drop the pole end on the ground (a very BAD thing to happen!).


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

I pass a thin chain through the "stop" on the pole guard and then around the ring on the neck yoke and clip it shut. That way, should something break or come loose on the traces end of the harness, the neck yoke won't just slip off the end of the tongue and pole-vault the wagon. I know a guy who did that in a forecart, at speed. He got pretty damaged. So I always "mouse" my neck yoke onto my tongue. Just takes a few extra seconds and it can save your bacon.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

On a buggy, where the butt of the team pole is at about gaskin height, you can hitch closer. On a wagon where the butt of the team pole is down lower - say, mid-cannon - you can't hitch as close. The length of stride is longer, the lower down you are.


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