# Best lamb for carcas quality



## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Does anyone know or have info on lambs that have good car as quality that we can raise for meat? 

We mainly raise Columbia sheep and have been very pleased with the quality and size of these animals!

However, we need to supplement and add to the flock and have few options currently.

We could purchase several 
Cheviots
And also
Jacobs

Anyone know or raise either of those breeds? What is the meat quality of them? How big do you let them grow to?

What weights would you butcher these at?

Any other helpful ideas?


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Carcas


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Cheviots are small, kind of high strung. Very hardy, good mothers. North Country Cheviots are bigger. Jacobs sheep are more like medium size goats. Suffolks are a good meat breed, good size and meaty....James


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

So do you think these are a breed we could use to get some lamb meat for sale from. Just starting up and would like some decent meat to sell


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Pic shows both breeds

Above is a better pic of Jacobs
Need to get at least one as our breeder needs a companion


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

jwal10 said:


> Suffolks are a good meat breed, good size and meaty.


I agree! We run Suffolks and I can tell you this is true, they are very meaty and very hearty. You better be planning a large meal (Fiesta) if you're going to slaughter an adult Suffolk and plan to eat it in one meal.


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## DragonFlyFarm (Oct 12, 2012)

I raise Jacobs and a couple Jacob/BFL crosses. I try to slaughter at a year, but have gone as long as two years. We've eaten a 1 1/2 year old ram, 2 year old wethers and 1 year old wethers. Our current ram is 2 - 2 1/2 years old and is going into the freezer in the next month or so. They get field to graze and orchard grass hay along with the random tree clippings and garden bits and pieces. Hanging weights are 60-70 pounds. Other than the larger cuts, we have not noticed a difference in flavor. Cooked up some shoulder chops the other day, my mom thought we were eating steak.


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

DragonFlyFarm said:


> I raise Jacobs and a couple Jacob/BFL crosses. I try to slaughter at a year, but have gone as long as two years. We've eaten a 1 1/2 year old ram, 2 year old wethers and 1 year old wethers. Our current ram is 2 - 2 1/2 years old and is going into the freezer in the next month or so. They get field to graze and orchard grass hay along with the random tree clippings and garden bits and pieces. Hanging weights are 60-70 pounds. Other than the larger cuts, we have not noticed a difference in flavor. Cooked up some shoulder chops the other day, my mom thought we were eating steak.


Aww, I love it, your mom thinking it was steak! :lonergr: We do love lamb,and I can see how if cooked like a steak it seems like one!

Very nice photo of your animals! The way the look has grown on me, they are very attractive in their own way!

We did purchase the 4 of them, as we couldn't find much else for our purposes currently and they are very healthy as is animals. Plus, I have read they are very hardy.

While the cut out on them won't be like our Columbias, we do hope they can get along with them as pen-companions to our breeders.

Is the disposition of the Jacobs calm, so far as yours have been?

On the animals you have butchered over a year, did you notice any difference in the flavor of the meat?

All who have advised us on the right time to butcher the lambs is always before one year of age, or else it becomes mutton flavored/or too strong tasting for our and/or most American's liking! Is that what you or others have found with the Jacobs or other breeds of lambs? Or is it after 2 years of age? 

Or do they need to be castrated or banded to not be heavily flavored?

Thank you for the photos and replies!

Our Suffolks that we have raised, overall had great carcass quality. We did butcher one who was over one year of age and he tasted great!


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

The people that only know lamb from Easter lamb want young lambs as those are 6-9 months old. People that like more flavor like older LAMBS, then you have people like in Australia that like mutton. Some of the flavor comes from lanolin, hair sheep don't have it, more like goat meat. There again some people only like young goat, some like more flavor. Many people think that older hair sheep tastes more like young lamb, different but more the same. Some people are used to venison, they think older goat tastes more like venison. One person loves what you have, others think it stinks....James


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Very happy with our Texel ram breeding Rideau Dorset crosses, suffolks, and the few polypay crosses. Can have a nice carcass butchering light or heavy on the types we've used.


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Lambs and sheep are fascinating to me! I just love them! So much to learn and do with the sheep!

Currently drying two lamb hides, a suffolk, and a polypay or similar cross(unsure as he was purchased from auction). Also one boer goat cross fur. 

Read about making lanolin, don't think that is on the agenda!

Several people in the region are interested in some of the wool...one even bought a processing machine! Hmm...would be interesting to observe how that works!?

Mainly, the farm is raising them for the meat! He has had a few processed and decent results. Winter gain seems challenging for the lambs. This winter we hope to feed them better now that we know more!

We got the 4 Jacobs, I am anxious to see how they adjust and progress!


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## DragonFlyFarm (Oct 12, 2012)

Odie congrats on your new sheep! For the most part my Jacobs have been pretty laid back - only a couple are really friendly, the rest just like me because I bring food twice a day. After lambing season I will be sending a couple of the girls to the freezer, either because I don't like their fleece quality or personalities. I've spun their fleeces but have never processed a hide. Interested to hear how yours turn out! I have not noticed a difference in the flavor of a 2 year old animal or a one year old, but as Jwal stated each person is different. Vinnie (the ram pictured above) is the oldest and largest animal we will have processed to date. I will let you know how he tastes....I figure if he tastes strong I will be making alot of stew and sausage.


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

DragonFlyFarm said:


> Odie congrats on your new sheep! For the most part my Jacobs have been pretty laid back - only a couple are really friendly, the rest just like me because I bring food twice a day. After lambing season I will be sending a couple of the girls to the freezer, either because I don't like their fleece quality or personalities. I've spun their fleeces but have never processed a hide. Interested to hear how yours turn out! I have not noticed a difference in the flavor of a 2 year old animal or a one year old, but as Jwal stated each person is different. Vinnie (the ram pictured above) is the oldest and largest animal we will have processed to date. I will let you know how he tastes....I figure if he tastes strong I will be making alot of stew and sausage.


Vinnie looks pretty large! Any idea how much he weighs? We have been told that the sausages, jerky, salami type sausages are very well liked and also sell best! Not sure if we will do that, but haven't ruled anything out.

Spinning, wow, that just blows us away!:nanner: We have seen that done, but that likely is way in the future, if ever., seems like we have a Great deal to learn!

I am very excited about the hides I am trying, but not sure how they will turn out. All the trials are on auction animals, that are not the highest of quality...obviously! However, we felt trying these is quite low risk.

It is a process, as is all of this!:walk:


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

Jacobs are little guys, if you want carcass you want to pick up Suffolk or Dorset or Hampshire crosses. I saw a pen of otherwise decent Jacobs lambs go really cheap at the last sale, well finished but small.

Also stay far away from any of the hair breeds, I have been told personally by several processors that they are NOT interested in hair sheep, bad carcass, bad dressing percentage. They still buy them but at serious dockage, i.e. last sale wool lambs went $1.90-2.10 and hair lambs went $1.40-1.60. Ouch.

We are happy breeding our CDN Arcott x Dorset flock to my big long Dorset and stocky well muscled NCC rams. Planning to pick up a Hamp ram next year as they have great length and that is one of my favorite things in a lamb.

Suffolks have the "champion" carcass but respond much better to grain feeding than to pasture. Having access to cheap grain can make or break Suffolks.

We are now looking to pick up a dispersal of Rambouillets to add to the flock. They have a good carcass but are slow growers. However they gain well on nothing but grass and are tough and hardy, a good fit for our range based system.


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## DragonFlyFarm (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm guessing Vinnie is about 200 pounds, he goes away in a couple months, I will let you know what his hanging weight is. I started with Jacobs because of my spinning. I was looking for something hearty, good mothering instincts, heritage breed, nice fleece and good meat. That and I really like the way they look  I give the girls some corn late gestation but other than that they are raised on field when its available and orchard grass & alfalfa when it's not. They lamb in the field and are good mammas. I don't know if I would call them little, but they are definitely smaller than your standard meat breeds. I would love to hear how your hide project is going, and give spinning a try! It's fun and I find raising, shearing, processing and spinning my own animals to be very satisfying. Rectifier Rambouillets produce a wonderful spinning fleece and they are big! Wrinkly though, how are they to shear?


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Rectifier said:


> Jacobs are little guys, if you want carcass you want to pick up Suffolk or Dorset or Hampshire crosses. I saw a pen of otherwise decent Jacobs lambs go really cheap at the last sale, well finished but small.
> 
> Also stay far away from any of the hair breeds, I have been told personally by several processors that they are NOT interested in hair sheep, bad carcass, bad dressing percentage. They still buy them but at serious dockage, i.e. last sale wool lambs went $1.90-2.10 and hair lambs went $1.40-1.60. Ouch.
> 
> ...


Interesting, we have raised a few suffolk and chose to go heavy on grain as we wanted and needed to finish them off, due to weather and location where we raise them. We were very pleased with Suffolk! 

Interesting as the hair sheep had a short span of popularity at auctions here, but it seems like that has passed! 

We had a mix of odd lambs this spring as we had few good choices for purchase. Suffolks were by far the best of those we had.

We actually bought the Jacobs as we couldnt find any other young males to live with our male breeder. Also, the Jacobs appealed to me as they are a special lamb and have gorgeous wool!

Our heart and soul are our Columbias-they do grow well and have been great for us so far. They also have good wool-even though I don't know what to do with it


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

DragonFlyFarm said:


> I'm guessing Vinnie is about 200 pounds, he goes away in a couple months, I will let you know what his hanging weight is. I started with Jacobs because of my spinning. I was looking for something hearty, good mothering instincts, heritage breed, nice fleece and good meat. That and I really like the way they look  I give the girls some corn late gestation but other than that they are raised on field when its available and orchard grass & alfalfa when it's not. They lamb in the field and are good mammas. I don't know if I would call them little, but they are definitely smaller than your standard meat breeds. I would love to hear how your hide project is going, and give spinning a try! It's fun and I find raising, shearing, processing and spinning my own animals to be very satisfying. Rectifier Rambouillets produce a wonderful spinning fleece and they are big! Wrinkly though, how are they to shear?


How are they to shear? Hmm...well, you must have some experience shearing! We have made attempts, but have learned, we need to learn more and/or practice more /with some instruction preferably to get better at this! Much more difficult than it looks! I have noticed often, people advertising for people to shear their animals! So, thinking it is an art, or needs training to become good at it!

Your Vinnie is very large looking in the photo! Ours do seem hardy and sturdy, and seem calm and easygoing! Shy, though, but all lambs are it seems. Still, hoping one or all can stay on with our breeder who of course is bigger, as he is a purebred Columbia. He is pretty calm as well, but the other Columbia he is staying with is more of a bully.

I will keep you posted on the hide situation. So far, just have the Suffolk, and some type of Suffolk/cross, and one goat hide that are salted and drying out for processing. I do hope to do at least one of the Jacobs, as they are supposed to be one of the very best to do that I am aware of.

We just attended a sheep and wool festival, and went to the shepherding classes. However, we did walk by the spinners, and all of the other products that come from sheep and were totally blown away! Some had hides for sale of course, but tons of other products as well!


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

Interestingly Katahdins often top purebred shows and sales but do poorly at large market lamb sales where buyers are looking to fill big orders. I find the disconnect between the breeders and the processors odd, as if the lamb dresses poorly and produces no wool, how can it win best of show?

Dragonfly, I don't know how Rambouillet are to shear but that's not my problem  I once thought about learning to shear, but I am simply not going to shear 100+ head, I'll leave it to the professionals.

What I am going to have to do is skirt the Rambouillet wool properly and handle it better. Our Arcotts produce a definitely "utility grade" fleece, which is so low value I just ram it in the bag complete and jump on it with my dirty boots. I'm going to build a skirting table and hire a shearing crew with a hydraulic packer next year to make sure the Rambouillet wool is properly utilized.


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Dragon fly 
I had read this online in respect to the Jacobs, -& find this info to be pleasing! "They provide a lean carcass with little external fat, with a high yield of meat compared to more improved breeds."

Also, find it cool that the Bible references the spotted sheep and that they supposedly tried selective. Breeding to get the spots, & Jacob did just that-as is one theory in how the Jacobs got their name!&#55357;&#56842;


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Rectifier said:


> Interestingly Katahdins often top purebred shows and sales but do poorly at large market lamb sales where buyers are looking to fill big orders. I find the disconnect between the breeders and the processors odd, as if the lamb dresses poorly and produces no wool, how can it win best of show?
> 
> Dragonfly, I don't know how Rambouillet are to shear but that's not my problem  I once thought about learning to shear, but I am simply not going to shear 100+ head, I'll leave it to the professionals.
> 
> What I am going to have to do is skirt the Rambouillet wool properly and handle it better. Our Arcotts produce a definitely "utility grade" fleece, which is so low value I just ram it in the bag complete and jump on it with my dirty boots. I'm going to build a skirting table and hire a shearing crew with a hydraulic packer next year to make sure the Rambouillet wool is properly utilized.


Good points-& I hear what you are saying!!! I cannot imagine having to shear so many! ! We first round thought 3 was too many!!!! Haha! You can get off the floor now from laughing so hard!&#128516; 

But seriously, glad to
Hear you may too attempt to do something with this extra commodity that these beautiful animals produce! Sheep really do warm my heart, & I love all of them!

They offer a once a year shearing class that I am considering getting into this winter or next, as it is difficult to get someone to shear here! I just hope I can manage the animal myself, as ours would all far outweigh me! Except the new Jacobs who are between 38-55 pounds currently. I have already been taken for a ride with one of our Columbias who is a 6 month old lamb, mind you, but weighs in at 145 pounds already! So she has some heft to her and is very strong when frightened!

I do find the markets fascinating-& in no way have them figur d out! Not many sheep in much of Wisconsin , & at auctions locally there may be none or a couple dozen?!? Sometimes there is great interest and other times not! Sthnic buyers at times and then poof-! None!


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## DragonFlyFarm (Oct 12, 2012)

Colombia is a Lincoln/Rambouillet cross, yes? There should be a handspinner market for their wool. Handspinners definitely love the Rambouillet. If either of you have the time or inclination to sell individual fleeces. I don't know how many fleeces you all have, but if they are clean and skirted well they would go fast at $10-15.00 per pound. Rectifier 100+ head? Holy cow you've got some sheep! The most I've ever had was 20 sheep and 3 angora goats. Those angoras are pretty wrinkly too, always super careful when they get sheared.


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

$10-15/lb would be amazing as our Arcott wool currently gets us $0.50/lb. It's scarcely worth removing from the sheep. Is that pricing for direct sales of individual fleeces?

Yep, we are a "real" sheep farm, though still on the small side for a commercial operation. If we pick up these Rambouillet we will be at 120 head, about halfway to our goal of 300. Sheep markets are good here and we have made good profits off of lamb sales.

Odie those sorts of markets are a nightmare for someone trying to turn a profit. I would not bring my lambs anywhere near a sale that only has a dozen head as the prices fluctuate so heavily depending on the buyers. The small flock shepherd is best with direct sales, and with a larger flock it is worth it to truck your lambs to a large seasonal sale. Every fall we haul most of our lambs to a presort sale that moves ~3000 head, this ensures that all the big buyers are there and nobody steals our lambs for lack of bidders.


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

Personally I am LOVING my Katahdins. No shearing to deal with, sweet friendly personality and a great eating lamb. Mine were weighing in at about 75 pounds by three months and I just processed one at 114 that is tasting mighty fine. 

I would say they have good carcass quality as well. What do you say?

At 3 months.











At 5 months.


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Yours look very nice and healthy! They seem very alert and happy! 

I know the guys in our family would much prefer a lamb like yours, as the whole process of having wool to the issue of shearing them, having them sheared, when to shear,...!?! It boggles their minds and I know they strongly dislike the wool issues!!! So,...in saying that, it has mainly been me who has tried to advocate for the positive aspects of the wool , through trying to learn what to do with it and learning more about all of it!

We have raised one like yours and he was a seeet lamb! He was from auction, so certainly fell in the not the greatest background (it was a tough season this last one in getting any quality or quantity of lambs, for us...). I have yet to learn what his hanging weight was, and am guessing it will be around 50 pounds.


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

Before the Katahdins we had a Painted Desert sheep. Talk about polar opposite behavior. He was raised gently and handled frequently from being a baby by my D1 and he was still as wild and crazy as a deer. You could barely even get close when he needed medical attention. He was awful.

The Katahdins are in your hip pocket. Even our ram is a pleasant fellow. I know I have found the perfect breed for us.


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## DragonFlyFarm (Oct 12, 2012)

Rectifier, that is direct pricing for individual fleeces. It may be too much of a pain in the tush for you, but handspinners are willing to pay for a good fleece. Burrs and second cuts are big no no's. Are you on facebook? There are several groups for selling fleece. Take a peek at "raw fleece for sale" and "raw wool for sale"


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

The wife is the farm's "social media manager" lol. I just farm and talk BS on old fashioned forums 

Our sheep are range so they get crud in their fleece, but we don't have many plants that produce burrs on our pastures. I'll have to look into it. Another issue is that we are in Canada, which impacts shipping costs and market access pretty heavily.

Farmfresh, I don't mean to insult Katahdins as a breed. They are ideal for someone who wants to raise a few sheep as you don't have to hassle with trying to find someone willing to shear. I'm just passing on what I have been told by the processors, at a _commercial scale_ their carcass is not considered desirable and they do take a significant penalty at the sale. Even if you call a processor and want to ship a load direct, they will buy at one price for wool lambs and another for hair lambs. But if you are going to butcher them yourself or sell farm gate or ethnic market - they may indeed be a perfect fit!


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

That is exactly my plan of action. Most of what I produce will probably be consumed by the family or sold as replacement ewes to someone locally. I am not going to be a commercial producer, so those big lot prices don't effect me.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Rectifier said:


> The wife is the farm's "social media manager" lol. I just farm and talk BS on old fashioned forums
> 
> Our sheep are range so they get crud in their fleece, but we don't have many plants that produce burrs on our pastures. I'll have to look into it. Another issue is that we are in Canada, which impacts shipping costs and market access pretty heavily.
> 
> Farmfresh, I don't mean to insult Katahdins as a breed. They are ideal for someone who wants to raise a few sheep as you don't have to hassle with trying to find someone willing to shear. I'm just passing on what I have been told by the processors, at a _commercial scale_ their carcass is not considered desirable and they do take a significant penalty at the sale. Even if you call a processor and want to ship a load direct, they will buy at one price for wool lambs and another for hair lambs. But if you are going to butcher them yourself or sell farm gate or ethnic market - they may indeed be a perfect fit!


I can't speak to the Canadian lamb market. But, the largest US markets do not have anything resembling a 'penalty' for hair sheep going for feeder/slaughter channels. Graded feeder sales go off condition and appearance, not wool vs. hair.

Speaking on a personal preference, hair sheep taste much better to me than wool breeds, particularly as they get older. But, others prefer wool sheep flavor, I am sure.


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

Interesting. In Canada they are always sold separately, and wool sheep always go higher. Here's a randomly selected auction report from this week:

http://www.beaverhillauctions.com/reports-view.asp?id=97&page=1

and here is the results from our big fall pre-sort:
http://www.sksheep.com/documents/SLS Sale 20160924.pdf

Sungold meats pricing grid, deduct 0.20 from base price for hair sheep: http://www.sungoldmeats.com/files/3114/5704/1672/2016_January_1_Revised_Grid_Terms_Example_Sheet.pdf

It's definitely a thing here in Canada, as I said I have asked processors why they take dockage and they simply don't like them. I actually looked into them, to save the effort of shearing and such - but decided to stick with the wool for better cold tolerance and saleability. 

I am one of those who like the taste of wool sheep FWIW.


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

I wonder if they have a market for fleece on hides? If they were also getting paid for the wooly skins as a fleece on hide and they had no such secondary income from hair sheep, perhaps that is the difference?? Or can a wool on hide go for lanolin production??


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## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

odieclark said:


> Dragon fly
> I had read this online in respect to the Jacobs, -& find this info to be pleasing! "They provide a lean carcass with little external fat, with a high yield of meat compared to more improved breeds."
> 
> Also, find it cool that the Bible references the spotted sheep and that they supposedly tried selective. Breeding to get the spots, & Jacob did just that-as is one theory in how the Jacobs got their name!&#65533;&#65533;


 Jacobs are a modern breed created strictly for ornamental reasons, for the interesting horns and the colorful markings. The resemblance to the sheep that are described in that story book is simply coincidental. As an ornamental they have not been selected for carcass quality or rate of gain, nor for wool quality. Any sheep can be eaten and any wool can be spun, but it takes a lot of selective breeding for those traits, which has been done for many other breeds but not the Jacob.



Farmfresh said:


> Before the Katahdins we had a Painted Desert sheep. Talk about polar opposite behavior. He was raised gently and handled frequently from being a baby by my D1 and he was still as wild and crazy as a deer. You could barely even get close when he needed medical attention. He was awful.
> 
> The Katahdins are in your hip pocket. Even our ram is a pleasant fellow. I know I have found the perfect breed for us.


This is a good example of why educating yourself about breed histories would help you to chose a breed which would better meet your goals. As a breed created with recent wild Mouflon influence, of course the Painted Desert and other Horned Hair sheep breeds are wild in temperament. They were developed to grow an impressive set of horns, to use on game hunting ranches, but as a domestic breed are not subject to the same permit requirements as wild species. Your animal was not awful, it was behaving normally for the breed, in a manner for which it was developed. It was a poor choice for your situation. Katahdins have a purely domesticated background, and so of course are more amenable to being worked.


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## DragonFlyFarm (Oct 12, 2012)

Agriculture, do you need a hug?


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

We did very little research when we bought the Painted Desert sheep. All I really knew was that he was a hair sheep. We bought him because he was a little beauty and the price was right. Definitely a case of being led by the heart strings instead of the brain. 










He also was a pretty gamey tasting fellow. I am not sure if they all are or if it was just due to his circumstances. ??? He was wethered young, because his original purpose that he served very well indeed, was to be a companion animal for an old pony that had lost her herd mate. She LOVED her baby! 



















When it came time to put the pony down (she was in her mid 30's) the sheep was about 5 which probably added to the gameyness even being a wether. Still we turned him into a nice bunch of ground burger and made good use of his meat.


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## Pinehollow (Oct 15, 2013)

I disagree, Jacobs fleeces have come a long way in spin quality. I have Jacobs and I love spinning their fleece. Is it best quality wool, maybe not, but it is improving!


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## wingdwolf56 (Oct 17, 2016)

Thanks for your posts Farmfresh! We are planning to start with 3 Katahdins next year. We definitely want hair sheep as we can't find anyone who sheers sheep anywhere near our area. I'm glad to hear the meat is good. I grew up on lamb and really miss being able to have it regularly. I have also heard they have good personalities. How good mothers are they? Most folks around here raise goats and say that sheep aren't good mothers and that we should be prepared to bottle feed newborns. Well, I guess we shall find out more next year...that is if I get the fence and shelter finished this winter!


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

The ones I have had are all EXCELLENT mothers. 

Only one time have I ever had a problem and it was with a first time mother. She had a very full milk bag, which was probably tender and did not want her new lamb to nurse at first. I caught her milked her out a bit and held her still to give the lamb a chance to suck. Once she figured out that the lamb was helping her engorged bag and not hurting her she accepted him fully and by the time his twin was born she was mothering with the best of them. 

Katahdins are also very milky sheep. They seem to really provide for those lambs. I have no doubts that they could be milked for cheese as well if you desired too. 

I think it is always in everyone's best interest to keep a close eye on things from labor into the first week or so. Every animal is different. Keeping the mothers penned in a lambing jug or small corral with their new babies for a couple of days at first, before turning them out with the flock, just makes things that much smoother.


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## wingdwolf56 (Oct 17, 2016)

Thanks again! I'm sure that I'll be posting next year for more advise!


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## Jreed (Dec 24, 2014)

I personally would not ever buy a cheviot unless I needed to practice my skills with my deer rifle ... those buggers are wild and jump. I would never buy a back belly barbados or a california red either .... personally I love jackobs but they are tiny tiny tiny, great flavor but no real carcass weight at all. Unless the jackobs have 2 hours the 4 horn ones carry a messed up eye lid gene and the hors are fragile and always breaking off and bleeding everywhere. 

If you want a cross bred sheep go with a large type Dorset or Dorper both same type of sheep and good mothers, hardy with some size but not Columbia sized


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## billinwv (Sep 27, 2013)

I just put four 6 mo. old intact kathadin lambs in the freezer (slow year for registered stock sales). All were about 150lbs. Hanging weights 68-78 pounds and only lost about 20% in final processing. All graded prime, I feed grain. Very tender and flavorful meat. I had corriedales before and gave up on them when it cost more to shear them than the wool was worth. Their meat was very good, but took longer to get a nice finish on.


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

Jreed said:


> I personally would not ever buy a cheviot unless I needed to practice my skills with my deer rifle ... those buggers are wild and jump.


Chevy's can be flighty but I've never had any issues with mine. Compared to my Arcotts, my Cheviot ram and his lambs have been tame and easily contained. It's easy to tell which lambs are his, they look like jackrabbits with their upright ears! Pure Arcotts, those are jumpy pests.

Dorset and Dorper are quite different sheep, one is wool and the other is hair! Both will breed out of season though, which is why I keep my Dorset percentage down. I like to leave my rams in until we turn them out for summer grazing.


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Wow! Jumping sheep! 

I didn't know that. I thought just the goats were the ones to jump too much!?!&#55357;&#56832;&#55357;&#56336;&#55357;&#56832;


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Rectifier said:


> $10-15/lb would be amazing as our Arcott wool currently gets us $0.50/lb. It's scarcely worth removing from the sheep. Is that pricing for direct sales of individual fleeces?
> 
> Yes, selling a fleece that is a finished product. We saw them for sale at a sheep and wool festival for $100-150, or so! Various breeds, but yes very expensive! Also the raw product, spinners, yarn, dye, items made from wool,....etc. plus, lanolin, meat, anything with a lamb on it, or from the byproducts of sheep!
> 
> ...


You are correct in what you say! We have seen this as buyers at the sale barns/auction house! Bidders are crazy sometimes, and if we have to go up against a family who wants an animal or several for their children...well, they bid high! That is a dream for the seller, but not the buyer. Usually in the spring are the parents and kids at the auction though, as they want an animal(s) for the fair...raise it and show it!


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Rectifier said:


> The wife is the farm's "social media manager" lol. I just farm and talk BS on old fashioned forums
> 
> Our sheep are range so they get crud in their fleece, but we don't have many plants that produce burrs on our pastures. I'll have to look into it. Another issue is that we are in Canada, which impacts shipping costs and market access pretty heavily.
> 
> Farmfresh, I don't mean to insult Katahdins as a breed. They are ideal for someone who wants to raise a few sheep as you don't have to hassle with trying to find someone willing to shear. I'm just passing on what I have been told by the processors, at a _commercial scale_ their carcass is not considered desirable and they do take a significant penalty at the sale. Even if you call a processor and want to ship a load direct, they will buy at one price for wool lambs and another for hair lambs. But if you are going to butcher them yourself or sell farm gate or ethnic market - they may indeed be a perfect fit!


Very interesting and catching up on this topic and forum!

It has been very interesting in Wisconsin, as in watching the prices here it seems the wool breeds sell for a higher price at auction and are often more desired. I find this a bit odd though, as I don't believe all who buy them actually do anything with the wool or total fleece though, but obviously I don't know that for fact either. Plus, I don't have time to view every auction result, but have seen it to be a pattern in those I have followed up on and also in some we attended.

Sometimes I think wool or no wool is trendy as well. Seems many think they want the wool breeds, but here many seem to be searching for someone to shear for them. Shearers are difficult to find.


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Jreed said:


> I personally would not ever buy a cheviot unless I needed to practice my skills with my deer rifle ... those buggers are wild and jump. I would never buy a back belly barbados or a california red either .... personally I love jackobs but they are tiny tiny tiny, great flavor but no real carcass weight at all. Unless the jackobs have 2 hours the 4 horn ones carry a messed up eye lid gene and the hors are fragile and always breaking off and bleeding everywhere.
> 
> If you want a cross bred sheep go with a large type Dorset or Dorper both same type of sheep and good mothers, hardy with some size but not Columbia sized


Good points.

Our Jacob's are adorable, and are getting less shy. Very tiny little guys that we got, in hopes one of them can be a companion for our Columbia who is our breeder. They have yet been allowed to be together, so we hope they like one another's compan. Our breeder has been a content large animal, only time will tell! 

I love the way they look!


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## manolito (Apr 7, 2013)

I have enjoyed the thread. I raise forty to fifty head of Black Bottom or Barbedos so I don't know anything about wool sheep. 

How do you pay to have them sheared by the head? If not to personal what does it cost to have wool sheep sheared? 

Seems there is a breed of sheep for any need from cute to resale to freezer.

Living in snow country and out with predator animals I have been happy with the haired sheep. Then again I wonder what I am missing without fleece sheep. 

Any comments would be appreciated. In 2003 I left cattle and started a small herd of sheep to keep me busy and active. I was lucky in finding a small market in South West Asian cultures that take what I don't consume.

Thanks again for the education.


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

In our area I expect to pay $5-10/hd for shearing depending on who I call, how far they have to come from, how big the crew is, how busy the season is, whether he is supplying equipment like a shearing specific chute + hydraulic packer or if I'm wrangling sheep myself and stomping wool into a bag.

I know that's a wide range but there are a lot of variables. I have typically paid around $7/hd for a flock of ~75-100


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

So take that out one more level if you will please. 

How do you market your wool and what is the price range that you get from it these days? 

I have heard that people typically pay more for the shearing than they get for the wool. Is that true?


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## CelestielAcres (Sep 16, 2016)

Hiro said:


> I can't speak to the Canadian lamb market. But, the largest US markets do not have anything resembling a 'penalty' for hair sheep going for feeder/slaughter channels. Graded feeder sales go off condition and appearance, not wool vs. hair.
> 
> Speaking on a personal preference, hair sheep taste much better to me than wool breeds, particularly as they get older. But, others prefer wool sheep flavor, I am sure.


Never had trouble selling my hair sheep lambs for butcher in the fall right off the farm. Most rave about the carcass and we are purely grass fed. We also enjoy eating them along with no shearing, docking needed. Hair sheep have been a great investment now for over 5 years. 

I know others who love the fiber from wool sheep...I however do not.


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## AchesonAcres (Dec 27, 2015)

Reading your thread Odie, and I'm curious about processing hides! Do you slaughter on your farm? Did you have any previous experience preserving hides? Or, are you a YouTuber like me? LOL What do you plan to do with them? I love to pick brains-- thanks for indulging me:nanner:


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

AchesonAcres said:


> Reading your thread Odie, and I'm curious about processing hides! Do you slaughter on your farm? Did you have any previous experience preserving hides? Or, are you a YouTuber like me? LOL What do you plan to do with them? I love to pick brains-- thanks for indulging me:nanner:


Aww thanks! What really got my curiosity up was after attending a Wisconsin sheep and wool festival this past year with our one son, and seeing all of the fiber available at this sheep fest! Our son who is starting his own farm,(with our assistance) and I attended to learn more about being a, "Shepherd," by taking Shepherding 101 courses over a 3 day period. Also our other younger son, and I raised 4 one year and 12 this last season, at another Location closer to where we live, in WI. Anyhow, I found myself and our entire family loved lamb! The meat turned out to be fantastic, much to our unknown surprise! The younger son and I had went to the auction barn to get goats, and as even less folks raise goats in the area, found only a few lambs available for sale at the auction! Well, as kids go, wasn't going to return home without any animals....decided let's get some sheep! So, we got lucky and won 3 Columbia breed sheep and one suffolk! That began our adventure! Also, we were so lucky in the lambs we won, as they come from an amazing family and we're very healthy animals! So Lucky!!! Coming from auction!!!

So, we learned so much at the shepherds classes, met great farmers and teacher, and saw so much! They presented all info on sheep from feed rations, crops to grow, lambing, selling,.... 

After seeing all the wool for sale at this fest, from hides to mittens, yarn, spinning wheels, and etc...! We felt and learned there is a huge market for this biproduct of our scrumptious meat flock! Should we consider not throwing it away? After all, two of the sources we have purchased great closed herd stock from raises them for show, basically and their fleece &#128017; quality is A+ and they always seem to be winning awards! &#127942;&#127942;&#127942;

Plus, I loved many of the hides they had for sale, from $80 and up! Ours have and would continue to go into the trash, basically!&#129300;

Shearing-much more difficult than you tube makes it seem! Processing-we have tried two different processors so far-both did well, one is USDA certified,...

The hides are still in a frozen status, as many roadblocks have entered life these days! My hope and plan is to get back to them when my hands can tolerate the weather once again! Days at around or below freezing, is just too cold for me,...! Coupled with other avenues of life! Hoping they maintain the status they were in, as some friends who have tanned other animals hides and furs have assured me they should be ok?!? We will see!&#128536;&#129300;&#128536;&#128016;I even did one goat fur! Hmm.... I am hoping at least one of them will be satisfactory to keep and take to a farmers market someday, and have as a starting point and conversation piece! Perhaps it can generate some interest in future hides!?!

Also trying to understand the process of what to do with the wool we have saved from earlier shearing-in bags....

So much to learn!


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## AchesonAcres (Dec 27, 2015)

:happy: Reading your post, it could be a summary of our adventure! Ha! We are new to the world of sheep as well, got in as a 4H project for our kids. Turns out, much like you, we really like raising sheep/lambs! From the breeding (although this year has started out rocky), to the showing/fair/4H, to the eating!  

Currently, we have 2 suffolk ewes, and a breeding pair of Finnsheep. Again, like you, we are exploring what to do with the fleece!! The Finnsheep have fleece that is supposedly good for hand spinning, although my brief try with a drop spindle was a bust. I haven't ruled out spinning, just trying to justify a spinning wheel when I've never tried one before..... My plan is to actually try washing/combing/carding a fleece this spring to see if it's a process that I will actually DO on a regular basis. If doing it by hand is too much time/effort I might look into sending the fleeces out to be processed, we'll see. 

I hope you update when you get back to your frozen hides, I'm DYING of curiosity--and hoping to get some tips from you!! Did you process the sheep on your farm or send it to a slaughter house? I haven't asked our butcher if he will save hides or not. We've considered processing ourselves, the hubbs is pretty good with deer.....

In March my hubby and I are attending a 1 day workshop, probably similar to the one you described only shorter. It's put on by Michigan State University and I'm SO excited!! I love learning about raising sheep and goats, and being able to talk to others who have "been there, done that".

Keep this threat updated, can't wait to hear about your results!! :happy2:


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Don't store the wool for very long in plastic bags, it breaks the fiber strands. IF I shear 1-20, I get $10.00, up to 100 or more $5.00 ea. Depends on set up, if you catch and take care of the wool. I can shear 100 a day IF that is all I do. I don't like wool sheep meat except for a little young Easter lamb. Hair sheep don't have lanolin, that is what flavors wool sheep meat, the flavor I don't like, but can be kept to a minimum if very careful when butchering. What little lean meat we eat, we just use goat meat since I have to have goat milk and venison. Wife and DS do like lamb a couple times a year, chops and Easter dinner once in a while....James


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## manolito (Apr 7, 2013)

jwal10 thanks for the input now don't laugh to hard. If I was to get a few wool sheep to try them out and I have clippers if I use a spacer and don't cut as close to the hide do I stand a chance of not cutting the hide. 

I spend enough time sewing things up as it is cutting the sheep on top of the other ways they find to rip and tear it seems a waste. I have no desire to keep the wool so cutting it several times would not be a problem. 

Just asking to try and decide if I want to try a couple of wook sheep.

Thanks
Bill


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Corded electric clippers? Never heard of a spacer. They do make a comb that leaves more wool. 

http://www.hornershearing.com/acatalog/longhorn-alpaca-standard.html 

Get the ones that the teeth don't flare out and the teeth are closer together, but you want wool combs, hair are hard to get through wool, teeth being so close together. Wide gaps make it easier to cut the sheep. Old worn down combs can be quite thin if you sharpen them a lot making it easier to cut the sheep too. Best thing is to stretch the portion of the sheep you are shearing to pull and flatten the skin. There are some good U-tube videos of how to do that. Just don't buy wrinkle neck sheep, Finn, Corriedale or crosses there of. Hide the ears, teats and other parts behind your hand, out of the way when shearing near them....James


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I always sent my hides out to be processed, lots of work to get to finished if for full fleece wool rugs....James


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

First time my brother sheared a sheep he made a zipper right up the jugular. Took some quick sewing to fix her up. Little cuts on wool sheep don't hurt much other than the pain o the sheep. Heals very quickly with all the lanolin....James


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Haha! Love the lanolin dislike James, and your honest and expertise assessments! 

Anyone ever boil up the hides to obtain lanolin? I understand you get little from the process! Lanolin is an amazing little product though, but tasting it...I can admit saying I have thought of your comment often when eating lamb!&#55357;&#56832;&#55357;&#56832;&#55357;&#56832;&#55357;&#56832;&#55357;&#56337;&#55357;&#56337;&#55357;&#56337;&#55357;&#56832;&#55357;&#56832;&#55357;&#56832;&#55357;&#56832;. But, I still love our wool sheep! I likely would love any lamb though, as they are sweet! The goats are endearing and their meat is amazing as well! Very healthy, compared to most meats...as far as less of some of the stuff we need to cut down on! 

Mainly, wanted to say we do have ours processed, and the main butcher we use requires we pick up the hides, hooves, and heads the day or day after they butcher. So, it is not an option, we must pick up the hides! I requested the separate the head from the hide, and they have been great in not damaging the hides! They do have an inspector onsite. 

Great to do yourself, but if we sell the meat we must have the inspector.


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## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

It would be worth 10 bucks to watch someone try to shear my blackbelly ram


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

Almost every shearer I know counts rams as 2x, lol. It's worth the money and gets exciting some years :grin:

We put all the wool into large canvas bags as the Canada Co-operative Wool Growers specify. Then all of our local sheep farmers bring them to the drop-off point and pitch in to load the semi on "loading day".

The CCWG then takes the wool God knows where and doesn't pay us for it forever. We still haven't seen a check for last year's wool. Can't say it's the best system but it's easy and gets us approximately enough money to cover the shearing.


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

Rectifier are you paid by the pound for the wool? How much per pound and how much wool is on each sheep dollar wise? If you only make enough to just cover the shearing it sounds like a whole lot of work for little gain. 

I think I am even happier now with my hair sheep. 

Also, where we are there are very few sheep unless it is a few here and there at local homesteads. I am afraid that any wool we ever produced we would have to market ourselves without a Co-op to help. 

BTW, Jwal10 is very accurate about the lanolin flavoring the meat. Compared to eating a wooly our Katahdins taste almost like beef.


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

By the pound. 30-50c/lb for Arcott cross wool, supposedly $2+ for Rambouillet wool, but we have yet to sell any Rambo wool as we just added them to the flock this fall. The Rambo wool would be worth it but the Arcott wool is I guess worth about $10/hd.

You almost definitely would have to market your wool yourself. Or, find a use for it, depending on flock size. There are many old farmsteads here with an attic full of wool for insulation. There are pioneer style wool products you can make without carding/spinning/knitting, like felted socks or boot liners. These are tough and incredibly warm. You can also make a very warm coat that looks like a woolly sheepdog by pulling locks of raw wool through burlap or similar.

Finally you can get a mill to custom process it as far as you like, then sell or use that product. Roving or wool is much easier to move than raw fleece. As we have too many sheep to mess with this sort of stuff, we just let the Co-op pretty much dispose of it for us other than a couple pounds to play around with.

Anyways, we don't do wool sheep for the wool, we do it mostly for winter hardiness, a little bit for the carcass premium, and a little bit for not having 120 sheep worth of shed wooly garbage blowing around the pasture. It was -30 last night with awful wind, but this didn't concern my wool sheep much with their heavy coats. Most actually had their forelegs untucked, which means they have heat to spare.

I like beef and that's why I eat it, just as much as I enjoy the flavour of wool sheep, venison and moose meat. Not everything has to taste like beef!


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

DragonFlyFarm said:


> Odie congrats on your new sheep! For the most part my Jacobs have been pretty laid back - only a couple are really friendly, the rest just like me because I bring food twice a day. After lambing season I will be sending a couple of the girls to the freezer, either because I don't like their fleece quality or personalities. I've spun their fleeces but have never processed a hide. Interested to hear how yours turn out! I have not noticed a difference in the flavor of a 2 year old animal or a one year old, but as Jwal stated each person is different. Vinnie (the ram pictured above) is the oldest and largest animal we will have processed to date. I will let you know how he tastes....I figure if he tastes strong I will be making alot of stew and sausage.


When do you slaughter?

Rereading this thread, as I feel I missed a few posts-at least in comprehension &#128526;&#128512;&#128512;&#128017;

And, should have corrected a few of my postings, as I see a few errors in them...!

Like, dislike James? What????

Sorry about the autocorrect and/or misword usage!

I need to check back on some of our local auctions here, along with local or near local sales of sheep. The auctions and sales over the past few years here that we attended and have been aware of(which mind you have been few and sporadic, at best-so not sure if this is the norm here), but we have seen that hair sheep have been less coveted and have garnered less money. Again, small sample and little experience with the sheep.

We did have a few hair sheep, but we raised them for lambs and meat, so nothing bred or long term at all, but they were sweet mannered lambs and friendly.

Just wanted to add on our Jacobs sheep-(which likely is a silly experiment and purchase overall), but our 4 boys LOVE POPCORN &#127871;!!!! Seriously love it! They will run to me for popcorn!!! &#127871;&#128017;&#127871;&#128017;&#127871;&#127871;&#127871;&#128017;&#128526;&#127871;

Two questions
-When/how often do you shear your wool sheep?
-When do you shear your wool ewes who are bred?

We are in Wisconsin-and it has been moderately cool out. 

Love reading all the experiences you are all sharing here!


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

For those wool-curious I have just set up with the crew for this year's shearing, for a flat rate of $5/hd, double for rams. This is for a flock of 120. I consider this to be quite a good deal, and if the Rambouillet wool turns out to be of value, we will actually turn a profit on the wool this year. Maybe I can use it to buy a bundle of posts or something.

Didn't realise you had questions there Odie, or I would have replied earlier!

- We shear once a year in late winter/early spring. 

- We have tended to shear soon after lambing, to avoid cold stress and issues with handling pregnant ewes. However many other local producers have assured us that shearing before lambing has never caused them any issues, improves the scheduling and helps prevent wool tag sucking (so frustrating!). So, we are shearing a week or so before lambing this year to try it out.


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Well, my/our hides are still in the deep freezer...but in saying that, warmer weather is approaching and time to get off and done what I want with them soon! I do intend to take them to a processor that is about a 3 hour drive away, reputable and as reasonable as any in the region. Also, I won't leave them with them if they feel they aren't worth it or the quality that would produce a satisfactory product. These 3 hides I have, two lambs and one goat, aren't overly special or unique. I don't intend to pay for any of them, if they feel they would be sub par, if you know what i mean! However, I do have more work to do on them and hope to get them presentable and processed.

However, as I reread most of this thread I wonder if some of what works in these colder and more wet climates doesn't always work on the open and more dry states, like some of you assumably have? Like, Kansas for instance, I would assume is much warmer and dryer than Canada, Northern California(which has been very wet-I hear), or Wisconsin?

When I was with our wool sheep earlier this winter, our Columbia ewes were very wooly and somewhat wet! They love being outside and the snow doesn't seem to bother them! The goats, on the other hand do not tolerate the snow or rain well at all! They dislike being wet, and wetness seems to cause goats more problems. It seemed to me that the big wool sheep, like the Columbia breed sheep are just warm with their coats on! 

Here, the hair breed of sheep have not been very good sellers at the auctions or on the sites online. People just don't seem to want them. I don't know if this is because of their smaller overall size, or because of no wool, or because of climate...or if it is something unrelated? Or perhaps, it is just random that I have noticed these prices? I do know that the 4-H kids, and FFA kids have liked them sometimes, and the kids have driven the prices up on them at times, along with some of the ethnic buyers when they are around...but, otherwise not.

Another interesting situation I have encountered was meeting and being invited by a meat processor to tour their facilities nearby! At a local fundraising event, I met one of the owners and he invited me/our family to view some of their family farms that are raising multiple types of animals along with the meat processing, .... One of the things he brought up was his llamas and alpacas...and why do they raise them? Well, FIBER!!!! In the US there is just NOT enough FIBER for sale! WOW, :walk: that was Nearly MUSIC to my EARS!!!! More FIBER is being demanded???? Really? Perhaps I shouldn't :nana:share that bit of information, but apparently it is a reality! 

Also, the Llamas, for guarding their livestock. Llamas have been very effective he said, though a guard dog or two wouldn't hurt and are being investigated as well. Wolves, and coyotes are plentiful in Wisconsin, and so are some wild cats/large cats! Ugh! So, they are breeding the llamas and alpacas, for protection and fiber. He even admitted to not really understanding the whole fiber industry...which just made me laugh...as I don't either, but...trying to learn!!! 

Thanks 4 sharing everyone! Our Jacobs are healthy & slowly growing, and they are so cute...:cow:, still love popcorn, and I do plan to harvest their hides in time!


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

We shear twice a year here. Have to get them in and set up, sheep go through the stress, pay for tagging, might as well shear. Also they bring a lot less water in, in their wool. We jug for 2 days, anything more than a single, singles if we had room, may get kicked out the next day. Shots, docking and castration, then out. Just me but I think hair sheep is more like goat meat or young venison when all the sinew is removed....James


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

Interesting James, climate really does change entire operations. By tagging do you mean what we call "crutching"? You're not talking about ear tagging I assume. So in Oregon you shear more to keep your sheep from getting soggy. Here we shear less to keep our sheep warm (it's rare we get a cold rain, it's almost always snow, which blows off the top of a thick coat of wool) so we crutch but do not remove any back wool.

I was talking to a guy today who came from eastern Europe, where they would keep sheep indoors in the winter to protect them from the cold rains and mucky ground. Here we keep them outdoors on the frozen ground to protect them from diseases of confinement. So while it's fun to talk and compare, a lot of practices really don't transfer between climates.


I just got last year's wool check and pricing grid. I got $0.35/lb for my wool, almost entirely in the category of "Chaffy/burry/stained" with a note that it was "chaffy". Would have been $0.60 if the domestic wool was clean and skirted. $2.00-2.40 for good wool from "range sheep" aka Merino/Rambo, but it must be clean and skirted or it still will go for $0.35. I guess we are skirting our fleece this year!

It's time for bed but if anyone is interested, I can scan and post the grid sometime. I don't think it's confidential in any way.


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Rectifier said:


> Interesting James, climate really does change entire operations. By tagging do you mean what we call "crutching"? You're not talking about ear tagging I assume. So in Oregon you shear more to keep your sheep from getting soggy. Here we shear less to keep our sheep warm (it's rare we get a cold rain, it's almost always snow, which blows off the top of a thick coat of wool) so we crutch but do not remove any back wool.
> 
> I was talking to a guy today who came from eastern Europe, where they would keep sheep indoors in the winter to protect them from the cold rains and mucky ground. Here we keep them outdoors on the frozen ground to protect them from diseases of confinement. So while it's fun to talk and compare, a lot of practices really don't transfer between climates.
> 
> ...


Well, I can see skirting fleece is where the money is! .35cents, gee, that is a big ouch!

I agree, different regions, different animals, and even different ways to achieve the same or similar result...every farmer has a different way of doing things-perhaps!?


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

This is the goat skin I have been working on! Not sure if it will be worth having the processor complete it or not? Taking it in Monday morning for an assessment before leaving it with them! I als hope to finish working on getting the remainder of the flesh off of it along with one or both of the lamb skins I have salted and waiting.... it is finally warm enough outside that my hands can tolerate working on them, so hopefully at least one of them will have some value!

This one has that neck thing on it, which likely will be a problem!? The photos give you a clue, perhaps on what I refer too. Also, how much I have yet to get off? Does this look like what you have?


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

One photo shows the 3, 2 lamb one goat


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

I dropped off the hides for them to be completed! They said the salting was good and the fleshing well done! So now they will be done in 3-4 months -I can't wait! It will seem like forever!


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

For goodness sake, if you already did the fleshing (which is the hardest part) and the salting you should have gone ahead and done the tanning as well. At that point the tanning is just soaking the skin for various times in a couple of different solutions. I get my tanning supplies from an online company called VanDykes.


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Farmfresh said:


> For goodness sake, if you already did the fleshing (which is the hardest part) and the salting you should have gone ahead and done the tanning as well. At that point the tanning is just soaking the skin for various times in a couple of different solutions. I get my tanning supplies from an online company called VanDykes.


Oh, so funny! I hear what you are saying, but the timing of them didn't really allow me to do that. We are in the process of living in a temporary place, as we have had some construction/remodeling done to what will now be our permanent residence, or I may have considered doing it myself. I hope these turn out decent, as I surely would consider doing it myself if we find a use for the hides this way. I think they are and can be so beautiful, and certainly if I could do the entire process myself, would make it more worthwhile then to actually sell them! Perhaps a way to get a little extra money for the farm, from a source we haven't seriously considered...which was part to my thought process all along.

Being warmer temperatures now, I can see this could be more of a possibility.....


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Rectifier said:


> For those wool-curious I have just set up with the crew for this year's shearing, for a flat rate of $5/hd, double for rams. This is for a flock of 120. I consider this to be quite a good deal, and if the Rambouillet wool turns out to be of value, we will actually turn a profit on the wool this year. Maybe I can use it to buy a bundle of posts or something.
> 
> Didn't realise you had questions there Odie, or I would have replied earlier!
> 
> ...


So, how did it go? Have they lambed yet?

We just got done shearing 10 ewes and one ram. Wow! We have a ton of Columbia wool! Our rams bag is 19 pounds of raw wool./less the belly and leg wool. Others are mainly around 11 or 12, one was 9 and one was 15.. We are considering several options on the wool, and have interest in it already. Just need to sort it all out and figure out what we want to do now, and investigate options for future shearing 

Do you or anyone else sell raw wool, or process your own wool?

I do currently have a Jacob lamb/hide salted....Can't wait for this one, it is gorgeous!


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

Once they are dried and well salted they can hold for quite some time without spoiling. If you have space you can also freeze them until you have more time. Either way tanning hides is a fun process and one that I highly recommend. If I can do it... any one can.


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

odieclark said:


> So, how did it go? Have they lambed yet?


It went as bad as bad could be I suppose.

We sheared at -5, and the day after shearing the temperature dropped from the predicted -5 to -25, and it then didn't rise above -20 for 2 weeks, with terrible winds and often snow. We boarded up every hole in the barn against the wind, closed up the doors, but there was no defense against the cold other than to feed vast quantities of hay (consumption doubled at least) and carry pails upon pails of grain. A thin ewe died the next day and several others went into pregnancy toxemia. The cold stress brought on early lambing and lambs dropped premature and weak into arctic conditions. We had 12 dead lambs the first day after shearing and every day more went into the pile. This was 2 weeks before the first lamb was scheduled to drop.

A lamb had approximately 5 minutes after birth before it went into hypothermia and half an hour before it died. Constant vigilance was required, with towel drying and hairdryer of every lamb, and stomach tubing or suckling on every one as an unfed lamb would expire in about an hour. I built a second lamb warmer and there was never a time without a lamb on both warmers, with a peak of 6 hypothermic lambs together in a pile. 

After 2 weeks of 24 hour shifts with someone always working steady in the barn, nearly a hundred stomach tubings of powdered colostrum, and a dozen bottle lambs on 2 pails of milk replacer, we managed to salvage 110% from a flock that usually lambs at 180%. We also have a lot of lambs with stumpy ears. Thank God I had a well equipped, organized and heated shed in the barn to work out of and plenty of experience with saving lambs or we would have quite believably lost every lamb.

By the time it was over my energy was completely sapped and I had taken on a sort of permanent chill from living in that awful cold. One morning after coming in from 20 hours in the cold I drank a liter of hot chocolate, a mug of hot tea and a glass of whiskey, and still could not stop the shivering. I foolishly did not check to see if I had myself fallen into hypothermia, but in bed under a heated blanket cranked to the max, I managed to survive to the next day.

Never again.


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## DragonFlyFarm (Oct 12, 2012)

OMFG Rectifier how horrible...I am so sorry you went through this. I can't imagine the level of mental and physical exhaustion you pushed through to save your lambs. Hugs to you


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Oh my rectifier., I have read your post several times and just feel so bad! What a trying stretch! We are SO Sorry-so incredibly amazing all you did to get through it! Truly commendable all that you did to try and save all you could, including yourself!

Thanks for sharing, even though it was not a positive experience---I learned from your post! Certainly to try not lambing in the cold of winter!


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## WadeFisher (Sep 26, 2013)

As to the original post topic:*Best lamb for carcas quality*.

I think feeding has as much to do with it as breeding.
I have Katahdins and sell most at the auction. And yes hair sheep are docked a little at "New Holland PA" market, though it is not much anymore. The gap seems to be narrowing. Well finished Katahdins will sell right with wool types. I've even had my Katahdins as 75lbs fat lambs hit the high of the day at a more local auction.
That being said; I want to have a terminal cross that would produce even better carcases. This seems to lean toward a wool type.
The whole shearing thing is not what I want to mess with and the expense and time of doing it does not offset the .10 -.15 offset in price at the market. But I am making meat lambs so if it is something that I would have to do then I would. 
So far the lambs that I have sold direct for freezer meat have all had FANTASTIC feedback. I myself learned to eat lamb that were wool type. I prefer lamb from hair type. I hear ALOT of remarks like this. So as we get more direct sales from having a more acceptable meat flavor I think we will see the hair type will equal or surpass the wool type in the not-so-distant future.
I do not have a picture of a hanging carcass but I do have a shot of some chops from my last one.









So.... where this is all leading to is that;
I am thinking about using a Texel as a terminal cross ram.
https://www.usatexels.org/
Here is there blurb.
_Our Mission
To Become the #1 Efficient Terminal Sire Breed in the United States
Originating from the Netherlands early in the nineteenth century, Texel sheep have proved time and time again to be at the top if not the winner in many carcass contests throughout the country. Known for the superior meat quality and naturally lean fat content, Texel sheep are a superb choice for quality lamb on the dinner table._

All of this is just my thoughts on the topic. We have 100 ewes currently. All of them Katahdins. We breed all season long to make the most from our facilities and to target more times through the year when the demand spikes. Luckily I am only 2 hours from New Holland PA auction. They sell 1000's a week with buyers from all over.
Here is a link to view the New Holland Auction prices
https://agmarketnews.com/livestock-markets/new-holland-pa/
You will see that the hair sheep don't have much gap anymore as they become an accepted type.


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## WadeFisher (Sep 26, 2013)

Here is a snapshot of New Holland PA auction showing not only is the gap between Hair and Wool closing. Several of the average prices for Hair were MORE, yes MORE than wool. This is from
_New Holland, PA Mon May 08, 2017 USDA Agricultural Market News

New Holland Sales Stables - New Holland, PA 
Sheep and Goat Weighted Average for Monday, May 08, 2017_








Traditions are hard to break. But time will tell.
BUT this now allows us, in our area, to choose breeds a little easier by taking one more piece out of the puzzle.


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## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

Those look like some good prices for the sellers. That's per head and not per 100 weight right?


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## WadeFisher (Sep 26, 2013)

mustangglp said:


> Those look like some good prices for the sellers. That's per head and not per 100 weight right?


Sorry, Hundred Weight prices at this auction.
If that were per head I'd put all my money in sheep....


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## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

Here they sell cattle by the 100 weight and Sheep or lambs by the head.


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

Still those are good hundredweight prices though a lot of those are pretty light lambs by Western standards. We usually send them 90-110lbs. Prices are a lot better in the East than out here in the West and always have been... but by the time you pay for trucking it comes out even. We need more slaughterhouses out here and lamb eaters.

I like your thinking WadeFisher as for too long there has been that hair/wool split in the industry. Your chops look great and I too hate shearing, though in my weather it is worth it to have the wool on in the winter. I'm glad for the hair sheep producers that the market is finally starting to balance out, at least where you are.


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## WadeFisher (Sep 26, 2013)

Here is what my pure Katahdins look like when fattening them up.


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## WadeFisher (Sep 26, 2013)

Rectifier said:


> Still those are good hundredweight prices though a lot of those are pretty light lambs by Western standards. We usually send them 90-110lbs. Prices are a lot better in the East than out here in the West and always have been... but by the time you pay for trucking it comes out even. We need more slaughterhouses out here and lamb eaters.
> 
> I like your thinking WadeFisher as for too long there has been that hair/wool split in the industry. Your chops look great and I too hate shearing, though in my weather it is worth it to have the wool on in the winter. I'm glad for the hair sheep producers that the market is finally starting to balance out, at least where you are.


The weight is dictated by the current market and season holidays to get best pricing. Finding out what the buyer wants and when has been part of my learning curve.

Hair Sheep do get a winter coat as thick as needed to keep them outside in PA or Maine (where they were developed) winters without shelter. They shed it in the spring.


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Wade, how heavy to the hair sheep get? I see the breed of hair sheep gaining popularity for sure, though sometimes here it is still the wool usually gets higher prices. Maybe that is changing or will change, due to no one wants or is able to shear the wool sheep.


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## manolito (Apr 7, 2013)

So many things go into the final product it is hard to say taste,snow,feed,and care of meat once butchered. I have developed a customer base that buys live animals and I save the trip to the auction and for me that is 160 mile round trip. I found a wheat seed producer who is organic and sells his seed at .10 cents per pound. I buy a couple thousand pounds of seed and use it for supplemental feed on my sheep. Several customers use my facilities to butcher and package their animals on a fee based rent. 
The one big problem I have is my wife of 45 years has a family that has tried to populate the earth single handedly and they are sure it costs nothing to raise Barbados sheep. Negates any profit possible but in honest talk I love the family and enjoy the giving process. 
Another year another challenge or two. Keep safe and enjoy the day.


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