# New Ruger PCC!



## Chuck R.

https://www.ruger.com/products/pcCarbine/models.html

I saw a sneak preview of this yesterday, then it was quickly taken down,,,,,apparently the website beat Ruger out with the news.

I think it will do well, especially since they added the magwell for Glock magazines, that was a stroke of genius from a compatibility strong point as it allows commonality for the Glock guys AND a reliable 33 round magazine. 

I hope it does catch one because it would be nice to see more affordable PCCs available. Time might be right as they're now allowed in IDPA and USPSA matches. 

Chuck


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## Bearfootfarm

They've tried lots of times to build a reliable pistol caliber carbine, and most attempts have been failures. Maybe this one will be the charm.

It's certainly not going to win any beauty contests.


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## Cabin Fever

My pistol caliber carbine is very reliable.


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## Jolly

I think they built a few of these...


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## Chuck R.

From what I've read the Ruger Police Carbine was a decent success:

http://www.alloutdoor.com/2015/02/11/review-ruger-pc9-carbine/

but was hampered by a lack of high capacity magazines. This new PCC appears to be an update, with the magazine issue fixed (Glock 33 round) and take down feature added. They're actiully going for $900 + on Gunbroker.

https://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=ruger+police+carbine

So we'll see. It's already gaining quite a bit of interest on other gun boards.

CF,

I've got a Thompson M1 (Semi) that initially was anything but reliable. 2 trips back and it now functions well enough with 230 grain ball. Honestly I don't shoot it much, something about a 10+ lb 45ACP carbine doesn't excite me. I've got a Colt AR6951 in 9mm that I use the chitload out of for a trainer and shoot in matches:










Chuck


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## Bearfootfarm

Jolly said:


> I think they built a few of these...


Sturm-Ruger wasn't in business until 1949.
They never built any of those for the Govt, and that's really not a "pistol caliber carbine".

The 30 Carbine was developed as a rifle round before it was chambered in any handguns.

https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=54


> Production required massive efforts and the M1 was manufactured by Inland Division (General Motors), Winchester Repeating Arms, Irwin-Pederson, Saginaw Steering Gear Division (General Motors), Underwood Elliot Fisher, National Postal Meter, Quality Hardware Mfg Corporation, International Business Machines, Standard Products, Rock-Ola Mfg Corporation and Commercial Controls Corporation. Inland Division managed 2,632,097 examples alone, making it the largest manufacturer of the M1 Carbine. Additional post-war production was added through the Japanese Howa concern under US supervision during rebuilding.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I think the price point around 350 would be a hole lot nicer , take down doesn't mean much to me

I always thought a PC9 would have been nice but just about the time I was getting around to one when it was discontinued

I hope Ruger isn't to late and to high priced to get int he pistol carbine market

When I can build a Glock mag Palmetto state armory for around 550 it is hard to be looking at a 900 dollar Ruger


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## Bearfootfarm

Chuck R. said:


> From what I've read the Ruger Police Carbine was a decent success:


They discontinued them in 2007 for lack of demand.
Maybe this incarnation will be different, but if it is I'll be surprised.

It's too expensive compared to AR styles that can be converted to lots of other cartridges by switching the uppers.


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## 1OldBear

Frankly, the 'space gun' appearance leaves me cold. As does the pistol caliber carbine. What's the point? I you want to shoot a pistol caliber, buy a pistol. If you want a light carbine get one of those damned useless .223 AR's. I carried one for 29 years and if I never see another it will be too damned soon. POS mouse gun.


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## Chuck R.

Like many things, timing is everything and it seems like there's more interest in PCCs these days. Like I said in my 1st post, two popular action shooting games just allowed them for regular matches. For some folks, a big plus is it's "not an AR", especially for those in non-AR friendly locations. For m, the AR9 makes sense because I use it for a trainer to the point I've shot it in a couple carbine classes, others aren't looking for a PCC for that purpose. If you look at some of the other PCCs out there, the $649.00 MSRP is not out of line.

SIG MPX $1100-1200+
CZ Skorpion $999.00
Colt AR6951 $950-1100
Beretta CX4 Storm $800.00
KelTec Sub 2000 $400-500
Hi Point $340.00-$370.00
PSA AR9 $600

Plus, it will probably go for around the mid $500 mark. 

Chuck


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## Chuck R.

1OldBear said:


> Frankly, the 'space gun' appearance leaves me cold. As does the pistol caliber carbine. What's the point? I you want to shoot a pistol caliber, buy a pistol. If you want a light carbine get one of those damned useless .223 AR's. I carried one for 29 years and if I never see another it will be too damned soon. POS mouse gun.


PCC benefits:

Cheaper to shoot than 5.56/.223, I can reload 9mm at a rate of around 600 and hr
Can use indoors at most ranges
Doesn't screw up my AR500 targets at CQB distances
Generally increased performance over pistol in same caliber

Chuck


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

in my thinking about building a 9mm carbine , and already having a 300blackout , shooting indoors is the major benefit of the 9mm 

ammunition cost weighs in some ,but less especially if the coated or plated bullets work out as I expect


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## Chuck R.

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> in my thinking about building a 9mm carbine , and already having a 300blackout , shooting indoors is the major benefit of the 9mm
> 
> ammunition cost weighs in some ,but less especially if the coated or plated bullets work out as I expect


GPC,

They'll work, I've run 147 grain coated and plated in mine without a hitch and the 147 coated was a RNFP design. Same load I shoot for IDPA. I've also run 115 & 124 RNs. Biggest thing is selecting whether you want Glock Mags or Colt, a lot of the lowers for Glock mags won't have a last round bolt hold open.

Another big plus for the PCC, cheap to free brass, no case lube and no trimming....

I've been looking at building one out of Quarter Circle 10 parts in 357SIG, then build another upper in .40 or 10mm. All 3 share the same bolt and lower.

Chuck


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I was actually thinking the cost of reloading 300 BLK currently my cost is about 40 cents a round using a 110 Vmax but it shoots MOA at 200 yards but my bullet cost is a big part of that.

I found some plated 150gr bullets cutting my per round cost to right about 20 cents

I run the CFE-BLK powder the pressure is very low for the round

the plated bullets state they must be kept below 1950fps not difficult since 1940fps is the listed velocity for book max with CFE-BLK looking at a starting charge and a 150 gr bullet it lists 1810fps and 26Kpsi my 110gr vmax load shows a book pressure or 28Kpsi and brass does not seem to be growing , I need more time and I need to keep checking case length but it is looking promising that my cut down from free to me 223 brass will be able to be loaded almost as fast as pistol ammo and last as long.

I definitely have more labor in it but justifying a 600 dollar gun to save 8 cents difference in the cost between my 9mm and and 300blk per round cost if the plated work well . would take 7500 rounds and I just am not shooting carbine that much right now.

as a real world tool for applications beyond practice or competition the 300 has a lot going for it , supersonic rounds that have 30-30 like stopping power at 100 yards and shoot well enough to 200 but start dropping quickly after that
heavy subsonics
300 feeds great in standard AR lowers and uppers with only a barrel difference , all the controls and mags are identical no special bolt cuts need to need made , no specialized lower so it holds the cost down on building one as well as keeping all the parts mil spec for greater interchangeability. last round hold open something a lot of pistol caliber carbines don't have.

If I had more carbine games , or took PC classes it would justify it but right now , not so much


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## Bearfootfarm

Cabin Fever said:


> My pistol caliber carbine is very reliable.


Mine is too.
Marlin 1894s 44 Magnum:


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## Southern Forest

The M1 Carbine wasn't intended to be an offensive arm, but rather a defensive arm exactly in line with the pistol caliber carbine. Yeah, it's more powerful than a .357, but it comes nowhere near the power of a 7.62x39. We keep one (a cool Saginaw Steering Gear marked Inland) for my 9 year old daughter. She's pretty good with it. My son uses a Mini-14GB and I keep an LRB M14 (they all are relatively common in their manual of arms). For just ranging about the homestead, though, a lever-action Western Field in 30-30 does it for me.

To me, the 30 carbine is a great little "hot pistol" round. However, I wouldn't mind a nice .45acp version of said rifle. This Ruger looks useful, but it has an aesthetic that doesn't appeal to me.


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## Texaspredatorhu

I have a ruger 44 carbine that I got from dad when I was a kid. Great rifle for pigs in the brush!


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I was watching a video review of these this morning , the glock mag is last round bolt hold open 
it does really look like ruger did their homework and put the features everyone was looking for into one gun 

if they can get the street price down around 500 i think they will sell very well


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## Chuck R.

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I was watching a video review of these this morning , the glock mag is last round bolt hold open
> it does really look like ruger did their homework and put the features everyone was looking for into one gun
> 
> if they can get the street price down around 500 i think they will sell very well


Yup, and to top it off I just got a flyer from CDNN today that listed Glock 33 rd mags for $12.99 and a 50 rd Drum for $49.99.

If guys can get over the whole "Looks too tactical" thing, it's a neat little carbine. 

Chuck


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## Texaspredatorhu

I think it needs some wood furniture!


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## Chuck R.

Texaspredatorhu said:


> I think it needs some wood furniture!


Spray Paint???

Chuck


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Texaspredatorhu said:


> I think it needs some wood furniture!


give Boyds a few months


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## wills

The 1873 Winchester worked well in 1873, and it appears production has resumed The shooter does not have to remove the magazine to reload.


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## wills

https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/1873.jpg


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## Texaspredatorhu

wills said:


> The 1873 Winchester worked well in 1873, and it appears production has resumed The shooter does not have to remove the magazine to reload.


They have been building them again for awhile now


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## 1OldBear

If I have to have a lever gun I'll take a Winchester M95 or a BLR. I have this affection for 30/06.


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## Dutch 106

I have a 1899 Rossi in 357 mag that is extremely handy. Or the pair of 300blk a pistol and a rifle. I cast a 230 grain lee bullet then powder coat. they work well.


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