# HT Spinning class - Exercise 2



## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

OK, for those of you who ALREADY know all about your wheel, here's a bit from Section A:

Getting to know your sheep, their wool, and how to spin it!

Things to do:
Read about the history of spinning, sheep, and wool.
Know it's, chemical, physical structure ( of wool that is), and it's characteristics.
List some non-clothing uses for wool.

I'm just going to go to the web and type in a few words from each of these and read about them. The WB actually tells us to use OTHER resources besides this book. SO, REALLY everyone w/out the WB, your not missing much, we are just paying for the college credit. WE are doing exactly what you are, looking online and in other books.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Would it maybe be helpful for those who have specific breeds or lots of knowledge of breed characteristics to chime in here? Those with experience with various fleeces?


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Hey there was a good article in the last SpinOff, if anyone has it or can get a copy to read! All about spinning for twist, and it talked about different kinds of fiber.

The Fleece and Fiber Sourcebook is also truly amazing.

Later, when I have more energy, I'll come back and give you my spiel on how "all wool is wool" the same way "all human hair is human hair". Think Frazzlehead Celtic curls vs. Scandanavian strick straight vs. afro. Trust me, this is relevant.

More later.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

ABSOLUTELY, MW, but I DO feel a little guilty.......you guys are making this class WAY too easy, spoon feeding us like this! :grin: :kiss: :grouphug:

I'm not quite ready for this section yet, just put it up for those of you who are. Anyone who is ready for another can PM me when they want another one to go up. You ladies can post what you like and we can read the whole thing when we get here! :happy:


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Lucky you WIHH!

Frazzle you forgot to mention those of us with baby fine hair  Wish I had the Irish gene that gave me Frazzle type hair. I'm sure you see it as a curse but....


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I have the book and LOVE it. There are way too many breeds of sheep and I want to try them all. 

I read in a magazine that I picked up today that wool is contructed like flower pots that are stacked inside each other. If you brush down one direction it's smooth, the other is rough and prickly. When I spun combed top it was easy to tell which direction to draft.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

MW, I'm Irish, and have wavy way to thick hair! The individual shafts are thin, but there is a whole lot of it! Wish I got the frazzlehead gene too!

Callieslamb, human hair is pretty much constructed the same way. I know with our hair, if you comb agaimst the growth, it gets fluffy and full. Does it work the same with animal fiber? Or must you go with the growth for.combing and carding?


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Go brush the dog or cat backwards and they get fluffy too. I think all hair is constructed about the same way. Those 'barbs" are what make the wool grip to other strands and causes it to felt. Those are also what they strip away or glue down to make a "super wash" wool.

Hercsmama, I'd even like to have your hair. Mine is pretty blah. I didn't get those Irish genes, darn it.


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

JDog1222 said:


> Getting to know your sheep, their wool, and how to spin it!
> 
> Things to do:
> Read about the history of spinning, sheep, and wool.
> ...


So JDog - are we supposed to write a report, and should it be typed or hand-written? I haven't gotten my workbook (actually haven't heard from them since I registered Tuesday, so I think it'll be a while until I get it). Just curious how it works - love all the aspects of this too. It really makes you think about EVERYTHING!!

frazzle - I subscribed to SpinOff this summer, but have felt that it's 'over' me and am really intimidated by it! I think that might be one of my goals for TdeF - pick something from SpinOff and try it! (Can't wait for "All wool is wool")

Callie - that description using flower pots is great! It really helps to visualize how the scales lay.

The Fleece and Fiber Sourcebook is really amazing - to get your copy signed WIHH? Wow - how cool is THAT????? :rock:


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Deb Robson is coming to Olds this summer. Just sayin'. If any of you wanted an excuse to come ahem: *besides* my charming company of course) there you go. Also Stephanie Gaustad. And Donna Druchunas. Yeah. Wow, eh?

Okay, all wool is wool.

All wool is wool just like all hair is hair. But the same way we can't use the same tools and expect the same results from different kinds of human hair, we can't use the same tools and expect the same results from different kinds of wool.










That's my sister on the right, who actually is the one with the Master's degree (I helped edit her papers and told her all I wanted in return was a chance to wear The Hat at her graduation, which is what this picture is about: that's me in the hat.) Her hair is stick straight. She can use a fine toothed comb.

Can you imagine using a comb in my hair? Yeah. I end up looking like Alice from Dilbert when I brush my hair, even if I just run my fingers through it for awhile. Why? Because I destroy the lock structure. 

My sister's hair has no crimp. No lock structure. Very smooth. Her hair is like alpaca fiber, or like some of the very low crimp very high lustre longwools. Wool like that spins up beautifully if you get it all lined up together in rows - combed top - very shiny and smooth.

My hair has crimp, but not as much crimp as someone with African hair - the really sproingy kind. Mine's like a medium crimp wool, your average middle of the road fleece. You can keep it in the lock, maybe, though the lock structure is fairly easily messed up, you can comb it - though it'll be a bit frizzier than the low crimp stuff even combed - and you can card it all higgeldy piggeldy and spin that (woolen, traps lots of air and is very poofy).

My Ghanian friends have SUPER HIGH CRIMP in their hair. Can't comb it. Pull on a lock and tug it out of the afro and it will stick out the rest of the day - you just unsprung the coil (it's really fun to do, I have to admit). Now high crimp like this - you twist it on itself and it's gonna stay twisted. It really wants to grab hold of it's neighbour, right?

The point is that each type of fibre needs different tools to prepare it, and will give you different results when you spin it. There's no one size fits all fibre prep method any more than there is a one size fits all hair processing method that will work for my sister, me, and my Ghanian friend.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

hercsmama said:


> ...............
> Callieslamb, human hair is pretty much constructed the same way. I know with our hair, if you comb agaimst the growth, it gets fluffy and full. Does it work the same with animal fiber? Or must you go with the growth for.combing and carding?


In my humble beginner's opinion.....with carding, the direction doesn't matter as much since the fibers aren't all going in the same direction exactly, but are overlapped, etc. With combing - where everything is all lined up straight and even....it would make a big difference to me. I noticed this while spinning combed top. For me the combed top drafts much differently and if you try to do it backwards to how the fiber is constructed- you fight it all the time.


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

frazzle I LOVE your hair! It's gorgeous! *sigh* mine's just flat, brown, blah... we get what we get 

So this morning, I researched different fleece breeds, and figured out the differences between Fine, Medium, and Coarse wool (some people throw in 2 more categories - Longwool and Down wool; although many Longwools are also Coarse). 

It was really hard to find a list of breeds under each category! I see why we have to cite sources now for the Master Spinner program too. I'm trying to figure out which breeds I'd like to use for the 10-breed Fleece Study. 

Here's what I've got so far: 

*FINE BREED (17-22 microns)*

Merino
Rambouillet
Cormo
Boorola Merino
Debouillet
Cormo

*MEDIUM BREEDS (22-30 microns)*

Romney
Coopworth
Corriedale
Jacob
Falkland
Cheviot (also Down breed)
Columbia
Perendale
Southdown
Shetland
Blue-Faced Leicester
Targhee
Finn
Tunis
Polworth

*COARSE BREEDS (32-36 microns)*

Lincoln Longwool
Wensleydale (longwool)
Border Leicester (longwool)
Coopworth (longwool)
Leicester Longwool 
Navajo Churro
Romney

Some of the *Down wools* (didn't complete this list yet)

Dorset
Cheviot
Suffolk

A few of the websites I used were: 
http://www.joyofhandspinning.com/wool.shtml

http://www.spin-knit-dye.com/wool-breeds.html

http://www.sheepusa.org/user_files/file_715.pdf

Now to pick!  I'd like a few from each category to compare. There's so many more out there - I haven't even looked that the Sheep & Fiber Sourcebook yet :stars: No wonder this program takes a year to complete!


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Southdown is one of the Down breeds, too. All the English traditional breeds tend to be down types as do commercial meat breeds (except Katahdin which are hair sheep).

Down wool is very sproingy and makes great sock yarn. Worsted laceweight? Not so much.

Columbia and Hampshire would be down sheep as well.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

Callieslamb said:


> In my humble beginner's opinion.....with carding, the direction doesn't matter as much since the fibers aren't all going in the same direction exactly, but are overlapped, etc. With combing - where everything is all lined up straight and even....it would make a big difference to me. I noticed this while spinning combed top. For me the combed top drafts much differently and if you try to do it backwards to how the fiber is constructed- you fight it all the time.


 Good to know! That it makes a difference makes sense, but as my "humble beginner" status, is way more humble than yours, I'm glad I asked!
PKBoo. that list is great! I notice Shetland in the medium group, makes me happy!


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Some of the breeds I would suggest, and this is just me. Shetland, Romney, Cheviot, Polwarth, Navajo, Icelandic, Lincoln is always nice, Ramo is nice. I stay away from Cormo and I have never spun pure Merino to my knowledge.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

Here's a stupid question, Callieslamb mentions that drafting in the oppisite direction from the way combed top is constructed is a fight. If I'm getting my fiber (so far all combed, and carded top) from the internet, how can I tell which way that is?
Normally the ones I have recieved, are fairly compacted from packing and shipping. So I really need to torture them a bit to even be able to draft at all. Is there a secret method of being able to "see" the direction?


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

You just have to try from both end and see. One way will be a lot easier than the other. Sorry that's the best answer I have for you.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

hercsmama said:


> Here's a stupid question, Callieslamb mentions that drafting in the oppisite direction from the way combed top is constructed is a fight. If I'm getting my fiber (so far all combed, and carded top) from the internet, how can I tell which way that is?
> Normally the ones I have recieved, are fairly compacted from packing and shipping. So I really need to torture them a bit to even be able to draft at all. Is there a secret method of being able to "see" the direction?


My fleeces have tips - where the ends of the wool have kind of stuck together. When I pull on a tip, the lock comes free from the fleece. Does that make sense? The tip that is stuck together is the end and the flat edge is where it was cut. I've seen some line their locks up perfectly (in the same direction) to wash them. I found that with my fleeces, I can pick out the tips even after it's washed. The locks still stay together. Even if I tease them apart a bit to wash, I can still tell the two ends apart. I have finns with very crimpy fleeces so I'm not sure if this works with all fleeces.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

PKBoo said:


> ............It was really hard to find a list of breeds under each category! I see why we have to cite sources now for the Master Spinner program too. I'm trying to figure out which breeds I'd like to use for the 10-breed Fleece Study. .........


How much do you need? I can send you finn - but it's very close to your BLF x shetland. Do you need purebred for your exercises or does it only matter that you have some from each category? I have a friend with a suffolk that she shears but I do not know what condition the fleece is in. I'd just send you mine and I'm sure the suffolk would be free too. Or do you want it already washed and in rovings? I don't shear until March 10th.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

For the homework to send in you need: 
One complete fleece, you sort it into 6 sections, display a lock from each section, spin a 2-ply/10yrd skein from each section, and write a paper on handle and appearance of each section.

Also, A4, collect wool from 10 diff breeds, provide notes, photo, lock of raw fleece, 10yrd skein of worsted and of woollen, and swatch 2"x2".

Then a 10yrd skein of wool, in the grease, dip-washed, washed, and scoured. AND write about it! 

Then 10yrd. skeins of teased wool and also flick carded wool. 

I have NO idea how much wool this is going to take! :shrug: We better go ask the ladies on Ravelry! I'd say one whole fleece, then however much it will take to get the skeins made plus the 2x2 swatch. The thinner you spin, I guess the less you need. I don't see where it says what wt. to spin the yarn. That will be in section C, I think, under spinning principles. I'm thinking now........maybe I better read the WHOLE WB before I do ANYTHING to turn in! C3 tells how to make a skein (I better make sure I'm doing it the way THEY want me to :happy2, and C4 is about spinning ERRORS, :shocked: I didn't know there was a RIGHT and WRONG, more like what works for you! I may get a CHECK-MARK if they don't like my spinning! :happy2: WOW, and C5 is about LAP SPINNING, can't wait to read THAT! Woo Hoo, I think today I'll try to get through the WHOLE WB! OK, that proly WON'T happen, I'd like to clean the house too! LOL


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## InHisName (Jan 26, 2006)

PKBoo said:


> frazzle I LOVE your hair! It's gorgeous! *sigh* mine's just flat, brown, blah... we get what we get
> 
> So this morning, I researched different fleece breeds, and figured out the differences between Fine, Medium, and Coarse wool (some people throw in 2 more categories - Longwool and Down wool; although many Longwools are also Coarse).
> 
> ...


Would you like to try Jacob? I have a soft Jacob- do not know micron count, but he is from a fiber herd, and is being sheared on the 27th, and you guys who are going through this course are welcome to try it. Send me a pm. Can also send Icelandic, but their fleece will not be as nice as the fall fleece....no charge, this is in exchange of the education you are sharing with us all


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

Thanks Callie and InHisName! I really appreciate it! It does need to be raw, since we have to wash it different ways, then spin it different ways too. This whole program should take a year, so we'll be at this for a while 

JDog - here's my thinking about how much raw wool we'll need (based on how I spin - anybody PLEASE jump in here with input! Plus I think it would be a great idea to ask the group on Ravelry too!)

I carded and spun 25 yards sport weight this weekend, and it weighed 0.5 oz. That seems to be my default spinning, and that's the weight I'll probably end up spinning for the samples. I did not knit the swatch, but I'm assuming it'll take half of the skein? 

So if it's raw wool, once you wash and flick card, you lose maybe half of it? So for each skein, we would need 1 ounce. Does that sound reasonable? 




JDog1222 said:


> For the homework to send in you need:
> One complete fleece, you sort it into 6 sections, display a lock from each section, spin a 2-ply/10yrd skein from each section, and write a paper on handle and appearance of each section. *we'll each have to get our own full fleece for this exercise. I plan on using our BFL ram for this one*
> 
> *This is the exercise that I'm trying to figure out how many ounces from each we'll need*:Also, A4, collect wool from 10 diff breeds, provide notes, photo, lock of raw fleece, 10yrd skein of worsted and of woollen, and swatch 2"x2".*so TWO skeins here (plus some raw locks)*
> ...


So the MAXIMUM number of skeins would be 8 - minimum would be 5 if we only have to include a skein in the grease (not dip-washed, washed, and scoured)

So if 1 25-yd skein needs 1 ounce raw fleece, then we would need minimum 5 ounces or maximum 8 ounces. Does any of this make sense, or am I just rambling?? :stars:


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

O it makes sense, but we're only on section A, we still need wool for dying.....AND spinning!  
Yes, for the washing process you need a skein for each one, FOUR skeins is RIGHT! 
The 10 diff breeds will require 20 skeins, just to be turned in. One for each breed spun worsted and one from each breed spun woollen!  :happy2: Then whatever it takes for the swatch on top of that! Plus a lock, in the grease! 
Flick and teased, yes, two skeins.
Six skeins for the fleece, one from each of the six sections! 
How many skeins is that? Looks like 36! NO BACKING OUT NOW! :nono:


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Yes...times 10 sheep ....it doesn't seem like much, but gathering it up will be a chore. Do you have a spinning-type store where you can buy fleeces? There's one in MI. She has a WHOLE wall of bags of different fleeces to choose from. Unwashed or ready to spin.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

LOL Callie, I'm still sitting here thinking what in the heck have I gotten myself into! :shrug:
DH came home today and said he found a fiber store about 30min from us in Peoria IL. I think I'm gonna go check it out sometime soon. 

I think I want my fleece to be Cormo, does anyone have this type?


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

JDog1222 said:


> O it makes sense, but we're only on section A, we still need wool for dying.....AND spinning!
> Yes, for the washing process you need a skein for each one, FOUR skeins is RIGHT!
> The 10 diff breeds will require 20 skeins, just to be turned in. One for each breed spun worsted and one from each breed spun woollen!  :happy2: Then whatever it takes for the swatch on top of that! Plus a lock, in the grease!
> Flick and teased, yes, two skeins.
> ...


Hahaha - no worries - I PAID! No backing out! :run:

So for the 10 different breeds, we only need 2 skeins per breed? That's the exercise I'm trying to figure out. For the dyeing and 6 sections of one sheep, I can use my own fleeces - it was the 10 different breeds that I was worried about. 

I thought we had to do in the grease, dip-washed, washed, and scoured for EACH BREED :shocked: That's what I was getting a little nervous about :stars: 

*jumping up and down in a huddle, arms thrown around each other* WE CAN DO THIS! eep:


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

You can get breed samplers, too.

You may want to ping an email to Flannelberry at Flannelberry Fibre - she has done L1 (and L2) and may have the fibre to get you a breed sampler ... or know where you can get one.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

I think PKBoo and JDog just need to make a trip to Michigan to go to the shop here. Callie already said she could put you up and we could make a group trip out of it. JDog doesn't FR have family up this way? maybe squeeze I'm into the group too.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

MW, I had already planned on going up your way the next time my Mom and her Sister go to visit OUR family graves. It was going to be a surprise! :heh: I have LOTS of family there. I just donât like to leave my lil farm, so I donât really know them. I only know them from when they came here, which wasnât much. BUT, now that I know and want to meet some of you ladies, I was going to go this year!!! My mom ALWAYS asks me to go, so it will make her happy too. 

Yes, FR also has family there, but I donât know where. 

My family is from Kalamazoo, I think. Iâll talk to my mom and see were my grandparents are buried. I know it kinda sounds funny I donât know all this stuff, but heck, I donât even know where either of my two brothers live! :shrug:


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Hey!! Don't you guys go without me. The Spinning Loft kind of near me - more near Marchie - is doing a fiber study class soon. It filled up almost overnight, it seemed. They have a website that you can order different fleeces from also. 

But if you need a place to lay your head, I've got it. I'm an hour short of K-zoo. And I can DRIVE again!!! I'll be in K-zoo sometime this weekend or next week to pick up some honey and my fleeces and maybe a bull calf!!!!


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Don't go without me either!!! Save me a place in the car, Jillian!


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

LOL, Callie, you crack me up "a bull calf"! :hysterical:
I'm needing a male turkey, PRONTO! I thought a coyote got my pet turkey, then she just shows up, out of the blue, yesterday. THEN.....we LOST her again today. I LOOKED and LOOKED and LOOKED for her. Finally, I turned over an old dog house AND THERE SHE WAS, ON A NEST, FULL of EGGS! BUT.......we don't have a BOY turkey! :smack All this work on her part, for NOTHING! Poor Nurkey Girl, :sob: I'm such a BAD owner!


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

Poor little "I wish I was a" turkey Momma. :sob: Now y'all are going to eat her children on top of it all! I know when I go get my hens eggs, they just sorta look at me like really? I just tell them to say good bye to Harry the omelette!:grin:
So, guess what came in the mail the other day? I got the winter issue of Spin Off magazine! It's awesome!!!! It is an entire issue on getting to know your fiber, and how to spin it, how coincidental is that?:nanner:
Needless to say, I've been a bit busy the last few days and haven't had the chance to sit down and really read it, but I'm excited!!:grin:


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Well, at least I didn't say I was taking my car to get the calf.....I also need to deliver some greenhouse panels to Blackwillowfarm....but that would involve the trailer and that I don't want to do....with all the driveways and backing and turning....nope...not gonna happen. It's soooo lovely to drive again. I can even wear a shoe - as long as it's 2 sizes too big. Sinus surgery next week. Lovely. 

I picked up the Spin-off magazine yesteday that everyone else has been talking about - spinning to the crimp. They changed the place where they display Spin-Off at JoAnn's. ARG!!! Loved, loved, loved the article. Beth from The Spinning Loft wrote it. So did we decide when we were going? We can do some great fleece studies there.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Callie I'm up for a trip any time, next month might be the best. I'm off work from the 8th to the 12th I think.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Yokey dokey....anyone else? Do we want to hit them up for a class/demo/help or just browse? I can't go the 10th- which is, of course, Saturday. My shearers come that day. Someone pick a day and we'll take a trip.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I'll be with ya'll in spirit. :sob:


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

I think I'd like to go and browse but if you want to take a class. I've never even looked at her web site, maybe I should do that. I'm free from the 8th thru the 12th during the week mightbe better anyway, but I don't know how busy she is.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Hey the Yarn Harlot, Stephanie Pearl McPhee, is coming in May. Not firm date set. Also Kathryn Alexander in April.


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

There's got to be a wonderful yarn store between PA and the midwest where all of you are, so we could meet in the middle! :buds:


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

NO...I don't have time for a CLASS either....but an informal....'could ya please help me, Lady...scheduled in.....maybe. Kind of close and personal like. 

PKboo - It's quite a ways to the middle! But surely somewhere in Toledo?


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

JDog1222 said:


> I'm needing a male turkey, PRONTO!


Might have this worked out. I have an extra jake (hatched last spring) and could use another hen. Swap out even?



Forerunner said:


> :sob:


Kwitcher sobbing until after I show up for my turkey trade ... you will be missing one drum carder if I make the trip down there. :stars:


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Hmm...... Likely I'll be missing a handful of assorted items upon your departure, if you are able to make the trip. :bouncy:


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