# opinions please, on drum carders



## JDog1222

For those of you that own drum carders or have used MANY, what are you favorite kind, what do you like about them, and if you could buy any one you would like (for personal use) which one would it be, and why.

Thanks, my anniversary is coming up :happy: and I got the go ahead!


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## hercsmama

:clap: How awsome is that!
I'm just going to keep an eye on this thread for future reference, never used one in my life, yet!


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## JDog1222

Yea, I didn't think I would like or need one, until I used one! :happy2:
I'd say if you don't plan on buying one, you better never try using one! :bored:


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## carellama

The Strauch Finest. It is chain driven and does everything that I need it to do. I do not do the chunky artsy batts. If you do this than the mad bat"r. What a great gift~


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## frazzlehead

You know what? I have one and I do use it ... but I am finding that I lean more towards my combs these days. Dunno why.

Big nasty pointy poky English combs (I have a set of Louet minis, but I'm borrowing a friend's big ol' mean ones to test them out). 

I get MUCH cleaner fibre. The top that comes off the combs is just beautiful for spinning, and the short bits that are left behind card up quickly into rolags on my hand carders (though I could run them through the drum carder in a hot hurry too, now that I think about it).

I think it depends an awful lot on what you plan to do with it.

My friend does mostly alpaca, and for her, the motorized Pat Green and Fancy Kitty are marvellous - the alpaca comes off those so smoothly aligned it is like spinning from commercially prepared top, it's just amazing. Wool comes out quite nice too, but you need to have really VM-free wool going in for a drum carder to do a nice job ... otherwise the VM just gets spread around through the wool! In Canada, we have to feed hay so much of the year that a lot of VM is pretty much inevitable (another friend from NZ was just shocked to see the VM in what Canadians called 'clean wool' ... of course if you can pasture all year, it's easy to keep it clean!). We can't often coat them either as the wool will felt, so ... we just use well designed feeders and comb out the VM. 

For blending, though, you can't beat a drum carder. Love it for that. Fast and amazing and awesome.

Do pay attention to the fibre you'll be processing though. I can't do anything with alpaca on mine - I have medium teeth and it just doesn't work well. Doing wool on the fine carder that works awesome for the alpaca works - but it takes forEVER. So, think it through.

So many options! So much fibre!

Hmm, I might need to go comb something now.


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## JDog1222

LOL, FH, you might need to go card something now! CRACK ME UP!

Well, I thought I might run into some of this, I don't know enough about all the types of fiber there are yet! I just started spinning last year. Never touched wool before then! 

I just want it for personal use and I'll proly be using all types of fiber. What type of teeth on the carder will work best for all types of fiber?


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## frazzlehead

Seriously, get a set of minicombs first and try them. 

I think you might be surprised at what they can do and how fast they actually are. At less than 1/3 the price of a drum carder, they are a good way to see what works for you, too - and then if you do decide to go whole hog into a drum carder, you could pick one that works for, say, wool ... and then reserve your minicombs for alpaca. That's what I am doing - I have an entire 2 lbs of prize winning alpaca fleece to prep and spin and knit, on commission, and I'm doing all the prep with either my minicombs (or perhaps the big nasty English ones - haven't decided yet). I could use my friend's electric carder, which is perfect for alpaca, but I've used it before and I know that it takes me 20 minutes to do one 20 gram batt on that machine - and I can comb more than that amount in 20 minutes by hand. 

Hmm, I should measure.

Okay I'm gonna go get the scale and my combs and a timer. Back in 20.


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## frazzlehead

Ok, experiment done.

I weighed out 20 grams of fibre, which is how much I usually do in a batt on my friend's electric carder (alpaca - wool is different). I was able to comb it out in about 15 minutes - and I know, from experience, that it takes me longer to do that on the drum carder (it is a motorized one, too - so I just stand there and feed the fibre in: but it has to go through twice, especially if I'm blending in other fibres).

Now, 5 minutes less isn't much - and the finished product is different than what I'd get off the carder. Not necessarily better or worse - I didn't diz it off (I can spin from the poof I get off the combs, same as I can spin off the batt from the carder, plus I hate trying to diz alpaca in this dry weather).

So, probably six of one half a dozen of the other.

What I like best about my combs, I think, is that I can just pick them up and do a bit of fibre, then put them down. With the carder, it's a big production to set it up and use it (or go to my friend's house, she has a whole studio!).

Now - back to your original question. What would work on everything?

The answer to that is "nothing". There is no one size fits all fibre tool. So you really do need to take some time to find out what kind of fibre you like best.

Personally, I like wool WAY better than alpaca - but I do some alpaca processing. If I need to do a lot, I'll get my friend to help me.  But for small quantities, I like my combs. For wool, I am dealing with stuff that has VM in it, stuff that is probably varying lengths, etc - and the big giant evil English combs ROCK for that. I get clean nice wool without having to sit there and painstakingly sort the fleece first ... just comb it. The nasty stuff stays behind. I can then pick through the leftovers and if it's fairly clean I can card it (by hand or in the drum carder) or felt with it or make dog beds or whatever. The stuff that came off the front ... oh yeah, that's a dream to spin. 

After about four years of various attempts at fibre prep and some recent classes I've taken, I have come to the conclusion that there is simply no substitute for time spent by human hands on the raw fibre. You get to choose where you put that time in: 

- you can sit and pick and sort your fleeces, then wash and dry and drum card and pull out the remaining VM as you spin;
- you can do a quick ferment/wash/toss to ditch the worst of the junk then comb - which will do the job of sorting and picking out VM to a large extent though it'll leave a pile of waste behind, what you have to spin is top notch and clean, and what's left can be dealt with however you want;
- you can do a quick and dirty wash/pick/sort and then card (by hand or by machine) and then pick out a LOT of VM and short second cuts and so on as you spin;


Whatever you do, if you want nice even fibre for spinning you need to get the VM out, sort so that the fibres are all about the same length, and get the fibres aligned somehow or other. 

I have come to the conclusion that for me (and this is just for me) combs are the way to do first two things and possibly the third. I actually do a lot of woolen spinning and prefer a woolen prep to a worsted, so I can totally see myself combing the fibres then using the drum carder to blend the combed 'top' back into woolen prep (and probably blending in some other fibres for sparkle and colour and adventure).

So yeah, I'm not really helping, am I?


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## Marchwind

I agree with Carellama. I have a Staunch (I thought it was a finest but it isn't) and I love, love it! I can card any and everything on it. 

I also have a set of mini combs. Took a class with Carol Rhodes on combing fibers. I can't say I'm wholly impressed. Granted I've never used he big ones and I'm oh so tempted to buy a set. But I don't think I like spinning combed fibers. I like my fibers carded, messy, not aligned. I spin bunny fluff from a handful and don't try to spin the smoothest finest yarn I can spin. I like disorganization, I like chaos in my fibers. But I am tempted, intrigued, by those sharp pointy claws


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## frazzlehead

March, I was like you, too.

Then I used the BIG COMBS on some less-than-ideal wool.

Oh yeah. 

oooooooooooooooh yeah.

You don't have to diz it off the combs and make top - I pull the whole poofy bit off and just spin from that, or put the poofy bits in a bucket and then card 'em to make 'em woolen. But the way it sorts out the short bits and the VM? Can't beat that with a stick, I tell ya!


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## MullersLaneFarm

I like my Patrick Green "Deb's Deluxe" but I haven't used it for about 9 months .......


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## Forerunner

J.....I think we need Frazzle to join our local fiber guild.




I'll have to agree with Cyndi for now. I really like my Patrick Green, "Deb's Deluxe", as well. I use it every chance I get. :teehee:
I'm hoping to replace it with a "Fancy Kitty Little Tom" before we make our next trip north....... :whistlin:

I need to try a set of them fancy English combs, it appears.
They look like they might serve dual purpose as a home defense weapon, as well.


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## Katherine in KY

Frazzle just about said it all! I have a Strauch Finest that I wouldn't be without. I blend almost everything I spin, either adding silk/mohair/alpaca to wool or color blending. That's what I use the carder for. I usually hand comb (with a dog comb or flick card) all the fibers before I put them through the drum carder. Yes, it's time-comsuming, but it really makes a difference. I just finished 20 oz. of BFL/silk that I blended and spun long draw--it just flew out of my hands because it was well-prepared. I also have big Indigo Hound combs that I'm only just starting to use. They are a whole lot quicker for getting VM out of fibers than using the dog comb, but the fibers have to be long enough to charge the comb. I also find them heavy after a while, but I have a feeling I'm going to be using them more and more. As for types of drum carders. we have an alpaca breeder in our guild who as a newbie bought a Louet jr. carder -- coarse tines-- and she produces beautiful alpaca batts on it! I've never felt the need for a motorized carder because by the time I get to carding it's a joy to be abe to crank, but if you have a huge amount I can see where the motor would be nice. If I were buying another I'd consider the wider Strauch just because I tend to load it to the edges (not advised), and then you get wool in the chain. I don't think you can go wrong with the Strauch.


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## JDog1222

O you fiber buddies are wonderful!!! :grouphug:
I understand just what all of you are saying! Each fiber needs it OWN set of tools! :smack I'm thinking it may be better to buy a couple smaller drum carders instead of on BIG one, like two for the price of one! 

OK, combs are on my list now too. :bouncy:
WTH, if your gonna do it, you may as well do it all the way, Right? Otherwise you won't know what you missed, RIGHT? :lock:

Hmmm, wonder if I should just travel the world first and try all you guys drum carders first, see how I like um! LOL

SO, I'm off to look up COMBS now! :goodjob:


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## Marchwind

JDog I don't think you need more than one drum carder, you just need to get the right one. I think if you go with either a Strauch or a Pat Greene you can't do to wrong.


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## PKBoo

JDog1222 said:


> Each fiber needs it OWN set of tools! :smack


Exactly! 

I got a Stauch Finest last year, and absolutely LOVE it!! I had tried a few other drum carders (I looked at them for TWO years before I made a decision). I wouldn't be without it - love it! 

HOWEVER - just like others have said, I was trying to process some fine fibers and the drum carder just wasn't doing the trick. So after reviewing (and WIHH's input :clap: ) I got the Valkyrie Extra Fine combs. LOVE them too!

And now I wouldn't be without those either! So yeah, ya' need both haha! 
Then you can do anything you want to do :dance:


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## hercsmama

I just got off the phone with my hubby, he said no to a drum carder:grump:, but I can get some combs and hand carders!:bouncy: So yeah for me!!


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## InHisName

I have 2 drumcarders, and use them both for different things. One is the fancy kitty- not the big tom, the medium one- and do not like that one so much, because the tines are shorter, closer together, and it is harder to do art yarn batts. The 2nd is an older jr clemes and clemes, which doesn't do as much, but has longer tines, farther apart,and better for for art yarn batts.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FANCY-KITTY...457?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cfbab9c99
The fancy kitty one- even though it is wider, it holds about as much fiber as the smaller ones, because the tines are shorter. I also bought this without the brush, and use a wall paper brush I had to press the fiber in, works great, and saved quite a bit on the carder. 


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cleme-Cleme...632?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6f5bd9a0
This is the one that does great art yarn batts- purchased 2nd hand after putting a listing on a buy sell trade local forum for $100 less than this one is going for- you might try finding a second hand one, then you can get combs and a carder 

I have never used commercial roving, so wondering if that is something that you need to take into account- are you going to be processing from the fleece, or roving more? 

Frazzlehead gave some great info about the time factor- it will be spent in fiber prep- so we get to decide where. 

I have a question for Frazzlehead- about Icelandic and the big combs (use Indigo Hound here), then carding for woolen.... do you do this with Icelandic? I have been combing the Icelandic on big combs, but wondering if putting the tog and thel together after combing the ends open and vm out, that a nice lopi yarn could be produced. 

Another tool not mentioned is a picker. It is great if you have a lot of vm wool that needs to be opened up before carding. 

If you go to the Ravelry fiber prep group and search drum carder, you will get lots of great feeback on this topic. 

http://www.ravelry.com/discuss/search#sort=&q=debs deluxe&w=set%3Ayour-boards
Here are some posts regarding the Deb's Delux and Strauch finest and others.....


Keep us posted!


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## Forerunner

hercsmama said:


> I just got off the phone with my hubby, he said no to a drum carder:grump:, but I can get some combs and hand carders!:bouncy: So yeah for me!!


:indif:

I'm sure glad I don't have to consult _my_ husband in re these types of decisions...... :heh:


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## hercsmama

ound::hysterical:
To be honest I normally don't. But we are in the middle of trying to relocate, and that takes money. So we made a deal that if either of us wanted to spend more than 100.00 on something. not HS related, we had to talk about it first. Keeps us both in check as to overspending right now.:thumb:


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## Forerunner

Well, for what it's worth, I wish I could _afford_ a Little Tom drum, right now. :grit:

Gunna have to put down my knitting needles and go bust more rocks soon, I reckon. :sob:


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## InHisName

hercsmama said:


> I just got off the phone with my hubby, he said no to a drum carder:grump:, but I can get some combs and hand carders!:bouncy: So yeah for me!!


What a great hubby! So glad for you....


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## frazzlehead

InHisName said:


> have a question for Frazzlehead- about Icelandic and the big combs (use Indigo Hound here), then carding for woolen.... do you do this with Icelandic? I have been combing the Icelandic on big combs, but wondering if putting the tog and thel together after combing the ends open and vm out, that a nice lopi yarn could be produced.


I have only just borrowed the big combs - but I've done Icelandic on my minis before. I don't normally separate out the tog & thel, and just comb the two together into a pouffy thing and spin from that. I think what you suggest (combing to get the fibres sorted & cleaned up, then carding into a batt) would make awesome lopi. I'll have to try it.

Good point about the picker: I have used my friends' picker as well - works really well to knock some of the VM out of alpaca, believe it or not, and to open up washed-but-still-stuck-together stuff like the Down breed fleeces. However ... even after picking, I still don't get the fleece into the nice open fibre I want for most spinning with the drum carder - I still have little lumpy bits where it didn't want to open up, etc. You really need a *lot* of time on the prep to get the wool ready to go through the carder, I now believe.

I should also say that in my shed right now is a GIANT industrial carding machine. This also belongs to my friend (she has a whole studio of fibre gear, but had nowhere for this one to live so it is here) - now, it is FAST ... and I think that with alpaca, which is very open to start with and doesn't need anywhere near as much prep to get it ready, it just goes like the wind making batts and roving. With wool, though, the wool has to be very open before it can successfully go through ... very clean, no VM, no sticky spots, all the tips open - more, even, than what one pass through the picker can do. 

So, I can stand at the picker and run the fleece through two or three times, pick the VM out by hand, and THEN put it through the carder ... or I can sit comfortably in my chair and comb a bit at a shot. 

I do think I will use the Monster Carder (as we call it) for blending - after I've done small batches of fibre cleaning/sorting/prepping with combs and by hand, then I'll take all the interesting stuff and pile it together and run it through the big machine.

You're gonna spend the time somewhere, like we've said. I used to think it didn't matter so much and I'd clean it up when spinning ... but now that I'm more into production spinning with my big wheel (long draw, fine yarns) I see that I'd rather put the time into prep BEFORE I get to the wheel. Get nicer yarn that way.

But, had you told me this even two years ago I'd not have believed you. It's something I really had to see with my own eyes.


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## Forerunner

*in hushed tones*

Frazzle even has a Monster Carder sitting in the shed out back........ 


:bow:


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## MullersLaneFarm

Forerunner said:


> I'll have to agree with Cyndi for now. I really like my Patrick Green, "Deb's Deluxe", as well. I use it every chance I get. :teehee:
> 
> I need to try a set of them fancy English combs, it appears.


Trade you a set of Viking Combs for the Deb's Deluxe



(yeah, I'll want them back too some day)



> I see that I'd rather put the time into prep BEFORE I get to the wheel. Get nicer yarn that way.


Yup, I learned the hard way also. If I'm starting with a raw fleece, I can spend a day or two picking out vm, sorting by staple length, color or fineness before it even hits the first wash.


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## JDog1222

OK, this is the one he says he has picked out. What you all think? 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCP-Triple-...713?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256b1f0021


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## Mrs. Homesteader

It has been on my wish list for a long time. I need to find more fiber time before I buy anything more. I am thrilled for you though, JDog.


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## InHisName

before I spent that kind of money, I would want to find a review. I googled it, but did not find much. Could not find it at all on Ravelry.... If you have that kind of budget for a carder, wouldn't you want to go with one that has been proven and has great feedback? Maybe it does a great job though- could you call the manufacturer and talk to them about it?


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## JDog1222

I know what yr saying IHN. That's just the one DH picked out. I'll let him have some fun, then......................I get what I want! :heh:


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## Chaty

Nice carder and man is that alot of money! I just wish I had the money to get it but like IHN said...what type does your friend have???Check into that type also. I dont know I just use my hand combs myself...Good luck and CONGRATS!!


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## Marchwind

Are you sold on the fact that you need a motor driven one? The hand crank ones are not that difficult.


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## JDog1222

No, I'm not sold on the motor........SOMETIMES DH tends to OVER DO things!


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## MullersLaneFarm

Chaty said:


> ...what type does your friend have???


Her friend (Forerunner) has my Patrick Green 'Deb's Deluxe' :croc:

A triple drum is top of the line.

Just make sure you have at least 112 tpi on that large drum to handle fiber with a fine hand.


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## JDog1222

I think DH is considering my bum shoulder with the electric function. :teehee:


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## Cabin Fever

JDog1222 said:


> I think DH is considering my bum shoulder with the electric function. :teehee:


thats sweet - maybe he can figger out a way to hook it up to your treadmill! :grin:


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## Forerunner

*stepping out quietly, in the calm before the storm*


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## JDog1222

That's a TERRIFIC idea, CF, Least until FR gets a water wheel going!:whistlin:

Wouldn't one of THESE be NICE! :bored:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J5njCbTNb8[/ame]


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## JDog1222

OK, I got this for making ART yarn and carding Alpaca. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cleme-Cleme...632?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6f5bd9a0
Now, I'm on the lookout for one with FINE/med teeth for wool or cotton, not sure. Guess I'll try a few then sell the ones I don't like......................RIGHT! :teehee:


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## Marchwind

Wouldn't a carder for "art yarn" be coarser than one for Alpaca? I would think you would want a fine one for Alpaca and finer wools, and a coarser one to make "art yarn". But that's me.

You will need a drive band for that one. One of those rubberized ones should work.


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## JDog1222

IDK, I just REALLY wanted that thing! 
Yea, I've looked at drive bands, but I'm thinking maybe of making some wooden gears and converting it to chain drive. :shrug:


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## Forerunner

I can't believe it !! 


She _did_ haul off and by that scrawny little thing.....the teeth look like a troll having a bad hair day!! 

Aaaaaaah!

:run:


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## JDog1222

ART YARN, baby, ART YARN!


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## Forerunner

:run:


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## JDog1222

NOW, ya got me hooked on sweaters! STOP IT, already, would ya! :grumble: :hair :nono:


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## Forerunner

What's that have to do with drum carders ?

Stay OT, already, wouldjuh? :bored:


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## hercsmama

You know, those sweaters done in ART YARN would be a pretty awesome sight to behold.......just sayin.......:goodjob:


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## JDog1222

Oh, YEAH....Hercs, now ya talkn, think of one with fancy beads in the cable.....shivers down my spine! 

FR, it's MY thread..........mimics my personality! :happy2: :kissy:


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