# Home defense shotgun



## littlebitfarm (Mar 21, 2005)

I'm looking for a pump shotgun with a short barrel to keep handy in the house. I'm considering a Mossberg Maverick 88 like this one 

http://www.maverickarms.com/pages/88security.htm 

Any one have an opinion on this gun??

Thanks,

Kathie


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

It is a lower cost version of the mossberg 500 they use the same barrel , but a different trigger group , and forearm , don't drill and tap the receiver 

they go bang reliably but lack the refinements of the higher cost 500 they also lack the huge parts availability of the 500 , and possibly the warranty 

you can find used model 500 shotguns most everywhere , they are one of the most common shotguns around that and the Remington 870 make up possibly half of all pump shotguns in use 

I would look for a used 500 in good shape first , then if you can't find one get the 88 a used 500 should go for about the same money maybe even a touch less then you get the availability of parts and aftermarket parts.

about 5 years ago you could get a 500 with the standard 26 inch barrel and wood stock for 167.99 at walmart


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## littlebitfarm (Mar 21, 2005)

Thank you!


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## Halfway (Nov 22, 2010)

That model Mossberg is an EXCELLENT home D weapon!

We sleep very soundly!


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## jamesdaclark (Aug 2, 2012)

I just bought a mossberg 500 combo last week for 319.00. It came with two barrels, field and short security. So far I love it.


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## littlebitfarm (Mar 21, 2005)

jamesdaclark said:


> I just bought a mossberg 500 combo last week for 319.00. It came with two barrels, field and short security. So far I love it.


Did you get it online? Link?

Kathie


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## wildcat6 (Apr 5, 2011)

I've heard it is pretty good shotgun. As stated earlier it is a little cheaper made version of the Mossberg 500. I imagine it is a good value for the money. You might be able to find a used Moss 500 for the same price point or if you can afford a few more bucks the Remington 870 might be a better choice.


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## liddledoggie (Feb 6, 2007)

i own a maverick 88 and a mossberg 500. both work fine but the safety on the 88 is harder to use. for home defense i would choose the mossberg because the safty is much easier to use. joe


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I was at wally world today the 88 was selling for 199 , the NEF pardner pump (basicaly the 88 of the 870) was selling for 179 , an actual 870 was selling for 299 and I think the 500 was selling for 239 

going off memory on all of them but you may want to check it out 
the pardner pump isn't a bad copy of the 870 parts are not interchangeable but mag tube extenders are available NEF is owned by the same company that owns Remington

the thing about the 500 and the 88 is the barrels have different length attachment points based on the number of rounds the mag tube holds 

the 870 has the same barrel sharable between all models of the same gauge making the purchase of a second barrel about as easy as it can get , the part that attaches the barrel to the mag tube is a tube that slides over the mag tube so rounds can go tight thru it and into a mag tube extender

so if you decide to take it hunting you can remove the mag tube extender and not have to carry all that extra when your restricted to 3 rounds any way for ducks and such


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## littlebitfarm (Mar 21, 2005)

I did pull up WallyWorld's website to see what they had. My only concern is I know WallyWorld has a history of getting manufacturers to downgrade their product to sell cheap. I don't know enough about the guns to know the difference.

2 local WallyWorlds don't sell guns. So I have to go about 45 minutes to the next one. IL has a waiting period so I would have to drive back. 

Here are my choices at that store:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Remington-870-Express-Tactical-Shotgun-12ga/17654659 


http://www.walmart.com/ip/H-R-Pardner-Pump-Protector-Shotgun-12ga/19235966

Opinions?

Kathie


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

either will do what your asking , the Remington has more parts barrels and accessories available 

check local dealers also 

I am not aware of Remington or NEF/H&R , or Mossberg making a lesser grade product for walmart other than to possibly sell the gun with 3 choke tubes at a conventional dealer and only one at wallys , or to orger them with a lower grade of wood , but since they are all ready synthetic i don't think it will be , but mechanically they should be the same.
I like to support local dealers when ever i can , figure in 45 minutes of gas x4 for there ,back ,there and back and a 40 dollar mark up at the local store is break even 10 more for keeping it local and 50 dollars more is fairly reasonable , look at the package see if it comes with choke tubes or any extras the bog box store doesn't if it is the same ask if the local dealer will do wally worlds price , if not ask if he will do wallys + what gas would cost if not add 10 more dollars then if he won't deal think about what your time is worth if it don't all ad up to please you go else were.


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## littlebitfarm (Mar 21, 2005)

I would love to support a local dealer. There really isn't one. I talked to the local pawn shop guy that deals a little bit. He has a Savage 320 that he priced to me for $350 including tax on Monday. I checked it out Friday (my first day off) and he then priced it at $400 plus tax. Wasn't happy with that.

Other local guy that does a little dealing is impossible to get hold of and apparently too busy to mess with returning my messages. Been trying to get hold of him for 3 weeks. 

I hate doing the extra driving but not a lot of local choices.

Kathie


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## 3legdonkey (Sep 18, 2011)

Just for a little bit of fun I thought I would post the Kel Tec KSG. 
http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/shotguns/ksg/ 
Probably a bit out of the price range you are looking for at $800 but it is the next shotgun on my list... Grin.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

The average person can shoot a 20 faster than a 12. At social distances, the 20 does just as good a job...yes, the 12 is better at longer ranges, but it's hard to plead self-defense for a thirty yard shot.

I've always liked the 870 Youth:

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/rem...-chmbr-choke-laminate-wood-stock-p-84833.html

It's very light at 6 pounds, it has a 3" chamber (allowing you to approximate some 12 gauge loads), a short barrell and screw-in chokes. With a more open choke, it's a good home defense or rabbit gun. With a turkey choke screwed in and 3" magnum lead shot, it'll roll squirrels at 50 yards.

The downside is that the buttstock is a bit short for a grown man, the short barrell (21") makes it a little whippy and since it is built on the LW receiver, rather than the standard receiver, only LW barrells fit.


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## jamesdaclark (Aug 2, 2012)

littlebitfarm said:


> Did you get it online? Link?
> 
> Kathie


No, I got it locally from a Big5 sporting goods store.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Jolly wrote,
_The average person can shoot a 20 faster than a 12. At social distances, the 20 does just as good a job...yes, the 12 is better at longer ranges, but it's hard to plead self-defense for a thirty yard shot.
_
I have to disagree. A pump shotgun takes the same amount of time to work the action reguardless of the guage. Maybe Jolly meant that the lighter weight 20 points faster than a 12. If so it's not by much. 

A 12 can shoot a heavier shot charge (more pellets) than a 20 if we are talking about the maximum load each is capable of. There are many loads available for each guage. Both guages have the same maximum muzzel velocity. This means a target hit by a 12 guage load will be hit by more pellets than the same target hit by a 20 guage load at the same distance but they have the same leathal range. Both are relativily short range weapons. Shot will slow down enough that it won't be leathal much beyond 80 yards and slugs are not accurate much beyond that range. Either is good at close ranges. 

I would happily claim self defense for a 30 yard shot if the opponent was armed with any kind of gun. 

Keep in mind, for home defense, the shot charge doesn't spread out much over the normal distance across a room so the shot charge will go through walls and may injure someone you didn't intend to shoot.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Nimrod said:


> Jolly wrote,
> _The average person can shoot a 20 faster than a 12. At social distances, the 20 does just as good a job...yes, the 12 is better at longer ranges, but it's hard to plead self-defense for a thirty yard shot.
> _
> I have to disagree. A pump shotgun takes the same amount of time to work the action reguardless of the guage. Maybe Jolly meant that the lighter weight 20 points faster than a 12. If so it's not by much.
> ...


In a home defense situation being able to shoulder your gun isn't always possible. A 12 gauge fired from the hip is going to be considerably less controllable than a 20 gauge. At in-home ranges, the 20 will do plenty of damage with heavy loads.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I very much like the 870 youth in 20 ga with the 21 inch barrel and it is on my list to get one of these for each of the kids as they take hunter safety and are ready for a deer gun 

as for slugs they are accurate and effective past 80 yards , with a basic modified choke bird barrel with just a bead I would sight in on a dinner sized paper plate and have no problem keeping all the rounds on that plate at 100 yards , with a scope my group with the same gun put all of them on a desert plate at 100 yards that is easily minute of deer 
with a rifled slug barrel and a proper slug and load 150-200 yard accuracy of a desert plate sized group is possible the major difference between a 440gr 1oz slug that is 72 caliber for 12 ga vs a 30 cal 150-180 gr bullet is wind resistance , drag , and drop the 72 cal 440gr projectile will usually find its way to the dirt when fired from shoulder height around 3-400 yards where a 30 caliber projectile fired from shoulder high will go 1000 yards to drop the same distance ballistic coefficient plays into this as does initial velocity , but the new sabotted slugs making the projectile only 58 cal and exiting the bore at velocities of 1900 fps with higher ballistic coefficient as opposed to the typical slug velocities of 1600 fps with a very low ballistic coefficeint the slug doesn't slow down nearly as fast 

a typicall 12 ga 72 caliber slugs slow down to sub sonic around 100 yards when fired at 1600 fps the shape and drag caused the slug to slow down very fast compared to a typical rifle bullet 
by using a smaller diameter bullet sabotted to fill the bore accuracy is gained out to 200 yards and trajectory closer to a 45-70 or 58 caliber muzzle loader are achieved during the civil war 58caliber conical projectiles were used at 2-300 yards , but with the increased range of these new slugs one must be even more careful of what is behind their target

as for effectiveness a slug 12 or 20 still passes clean thru a deer even at 100 -125 yards even though it has slowed to a speed of 900 fps , I haven't shot them at any greater distance.

if you are a smaller person or recoil sensitive 20ga is a good choice , as for is one faster shooting than the other, recovery from recoil may be faster ,I would expect that a 20 heavy load and a 12 light load would handle from the operators side with very similar feel and speed , it is just that the 12 is capable of a bigger payload but with it comes bigger recoil

to dispel the myth of you don't need to aim with a shotgun because the patterns spreads so large , the most you can expect a shotgun pattern even with a unchoked / cylinder bore is about 6 inches at 21 feet , depending on the load most of the shot is actually still with the shot cup at that distance 

the smaller the shot the less likely it is to penetrate , this is good and bad , you want penetration to stop bad guys and you don't want penetration of walls , you pick the middle you want to go big enough to penetrate a bad guy at out to 21 feet but small enough that anything making it thru a wall is hopefully less than lethal or doesn't go thru 2 or 3 walls , but walls in modern houses are very thin and won't stop much 
#4 buck shot is the preference of many police departments for this reason , although many do opt for larger like #1 or 00 remember smaller the number larger the shot is in diameter like wire gauge either will be lethal if the person is standing just behind 2 sheets of dry wall but are less likely to find their way to neighbors house.


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

liddledoggie said:


> i own a maverick 88 and a mossberg 500. both work fine but the safety on the 88 is harder to use. for home defense i would choose the mossberg because the safty is much easier to use. joe


Another difference...It use to be that the Maverick 88, only had one bar going from the pump-forearm to the action. And the Mossberg 500 has 2 bars going to the action, making it stronger.
Is that still the way of things?? If so, the Maverick would not be as strong or as sturdy as the 500. But, I don't know if they still make Mavericks that way.

I had a Maverick several years ago. and that was the case. So I through it in on a trade I was making to a guy, who didn't mind. He was trading it off in a week or two.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

they now have 2 bars , but they are molded into the forearm and unlike the 500 so the forearm for the 88 is different


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## BACOG (May 17, 2012)

Shifting gears a bit but here is my ultimate defense shotgun. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/02/12/atis-new-12-gauge-ar-15-patterned-shotgun/


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## 3legdonkey (Sep 18, 2011)

BACOG said:


> Shifting gears a bit but here is my ultimate defense shotgun. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/02/12/atis-new-12-gauge-ar-15-patterned-shotgun/


Shotguns are generally a bit dirtier than rifles. For this reason I have gone with the AK shotgun platform vs the AR as the AK is better able to withstand the dirt and grime from shotgun shells.

In either case having a magazine to house your shells is great! Here is a picture of the AK shotgun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saiga-12


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## littlebitfarm (Mar 21, 2005)

Pawn shop guy looked around and decided his price was off. I can get the Savage 320 for $300. No driving, no fuss, no muss!

Kathie


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

he is still a bit high but getting much closer , ask him what he charges for transfers 

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/37_973/Savage-Stevens/


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## littlebitfarm (Mar 21, 2005)

He does transfers for $25. I think I will go ahead and grab it from him. I can have it my hands before my crazy state (Illinois) enacts any more laws. Is either a 6 + 1 or 7 + 1 with ghost ring sights. 

Thanks for all the info about 12 ga vs 20 ga and the different shot sizes. 

Kathie


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Nimrod said:


> Jolly wrote,
> _The average person can shoot a 20 faster than a 12. At social distances, the 20 does just as good a job...yes, the 12 is better at longer ranges, but it's hard to plead self-defense for a thirty yard shot._
> 
> I have to disagree. A pump shotgun takes the same amount of time to work the action reguardless of the guage. Maybe Jolly meant that the lighter weight 20 points faster than a 12. If so it's not by much.
> ...


A few opinions:

1. Why do I say 20's are faster than 12's. Multiple reasons...20's usually point faster than 12's. 20's generally don't recoil as hard as 12's, bringing that bead back on target quicker...I know it's comparing apples to kumquats, since the Franchi Affinity is not a pump, but I have no problem busting cans as fast as I can pull the trigger...I can't do that with my Browning 12.

2. I don't load buckshot for home defense. A 1 ounce load of #6, center mass, at room distances tends to kill things graveyard dead. And the prosecuting attorney can't talk about previous intent when discussing birdshot, plus, I don't have to worry as much about over penetration. I've cut up my fair share of dead people in my day and even a .410 at room ranges is nothing you want to get hit with...check out Hickok's youtube video of the Taurus Judge and what it will do at 15 feet.

3. Speaking of attorneys, in Louisiana we are a Castle Doctrine state. In fact, we extend the definition of "castle" to adjoing property such as the yard surrounding the house. But...I've been told by two concealed carry instructors and the local district attorney, that the magic number is 15 feet. Further than 15 feet, the law starts looking at whether you are attempting to get yourself out of trouble or pursuing a gunfight.

Just my opinion, YMMV....


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

No matter what make or gauge you choose-PRACTICE slamming pump back-in a high stress situation many people short-stroke-which means round does not chamber..I bought my wife a nice little Mossberg 20ga semiauto,fires anything as fast as you pull trigger.


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