# Was the punch justified?



## SteveD(TX) (May 14, 2002)

The cop in this video is taking lots of heat for punching the girl who was interfering with the arrest of a girl who was stopped for jaywalking, then got beligerent. IMHO, they both should have been tazed.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9w9AfptGGQ&feature=player_embedded[/ame]


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

I feel for that officer, trying to arrest a woman without getting himself into trouble for "inappropriate touching" and then a second woman jumps in and interferes and shoves the officer. Lucky they didn't try to strip his gun. And the crowd was hostile too - bet he was wondering where the heck his back up was.


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## TJN66 (Aug 29, 2004)

She should be lucky that all he did was hit her. A tazer or pepper spray would have been much much worse. And if he felt in fear for his life even pulling his gun. Guess she should not have been interfering.


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

TJN66 said:


> She should be lucky that all he did was hit her. _ A tazer or pepper spray would have been much much worse_. And if he felt in fear for his life even pulling his gun. Guess she should not have been interfering.


Not really. I've been punched,peppered and tased.
Tase me first, then pepper then punch.

A taser is only 5 seconds initially, then if you do not comply you ride it till you comply.
Pepper stings a bit but,when you comply, you wash it off with GoJo. Does leave a bit of residule effect.
A punch, you can feel it for days or weeks depending where you get hit..


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Absolutely justified.

No doubt he will be labeled as a "rogue cop".


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## TJN66 (Aug 29, 2004)

Just Cliff said:


> Not really. I've been punched,peppered and tased.
> Tase me first, then pepper then punch.
> 
> A taser is only 5 seconds initially, then if you do not comply you ride it till you comply.
> ...


Ahh...didnt know that. Thanks for the info.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Oh.. that cop needs a refresher course in how to apprehend and subdue a person.
That was just pitiful.
Surely he should be able to quickly and easily overpower a woman.
He needs to hit the gym and redo his academy classes.
That was just embarrassing.


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## HorseGirl31 (Apr 7, 2010)

Sheesh! She shoulda known better than to interfere. Really?


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

chickenista said:


> Oh.. that cop needs a refresher course in how to apprehend and subdue a person.
> That was just pitiful.
> Surely he should be able to quickly and easily overpower a woman.
> He needs to hit the gym and redo his academy classes.
> That was just embarrassing.


This is exactly what I thought. He also needs training in command presence. With proper command presence he could have controlled that situation from the start. I also never saw him once communicate on his radio. Very dangerous. He should have kept in contact with dispatch. 

He is obviously a rookie. He is lucky he was dealing with a couple of divas and not real criminals.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

chickenista said:


> Oh.. that cop needs a refresher course in how to apprehend and subdue a person.
> That was just pitiful.
> Surely he should be able to quickly and easily overpower a woman.
> He needs to hit the gym and redo his academy classes.
> That was just embarrassing.


It sure didn't take long for the "rogue cop" to come out. Did you watch the video closely?

The officer was already trying to subdue an overly agressive suspect. 

So he is supposed to wrestle two suspects at the same time? That's a great way to get his service weapon pulled from him, or get a knife in the back.

Overpower a woman? Is this 1956? 

Women are soldiers. Women are Marines. Women are Cops. Women can kick, punch, scratch and stab, as well as most men, better than many.

This is a perfect example of making a perpetrator into a victim, which is what is truely embarrasing.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Punching a belligerent person who acts like an animal is fine by me. Both of those women should be jailed for assault. Nasty animals deserve cages.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

i think the cop lost control of that one for sure. you won't hear me say it often, but he was probably justified in hitting the second subject. personally, i would have used a club. then again, i would probably have had the initial subject on the ground long before the second subject interfered. it wouldn't have required smashing her into the ground or anything, but simply taking her down and eliminating her mobility would have let him cuff her.

as to being afraid to do this or that because he may have been afraid of the ramifications...it goes with the job. if you want to be a cop, do it well, use justifiable force and deal with the consequences. it is the numbnuts like the ones who repeatedly beat and kicked the guy who flew out of his vehicle, or the ones who tase people over and over without just cuffing them and carting them away that i have a problem with. 

if a person thinks they can physically interfere with a cop who is trying to cuff a subject, they probably should be ready to get hit, clubbed, sprayed, tased or shot.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

plowjockey said:


> It sure didn't take long for the "rogue cop" to come out. Did you watch the video closely?
> 
> The officer was already trying to subdue an overly agressive suspect.
> 
> ...


Nope. I don't buy it.
Yes, women are strong and women go into the military etc.. but not this woman.
He should have had her cuffed in a manner of seconds and without brutality. She got more bruises from wrestling around with this guy for all that time than if he had grabbed her arms in a quick and professional manner.
Watch it again.. there were about a hundred times when she could have grabbed his gun so easily. Heck.. she was even behind him once or twice.
That possibility endangers the woman, the other woman, the cop and all the bystanders and cars driving by.
If he had been paying attention in class none of this would ahve happened.
And the second woman was only in there for a brief moment and she popped up long after the first woman should have been cuffed.
Most of the time it was one on one.
I bet he gets in trouble, but not for punching the woman, but for reckless endangerment and bad procedure.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

I hope he broke her jaw and she sips her dinner for a month. 

Anybody stop to think about what could have happened, had the cop lost his weapon in a struggle with two females and we suddenly had one dead cop? Or dead civilian?


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

chickenista said:


> Oh.. that cop needs a refresher course in how to apprehend and subdue a person.
> That was just pitiful.
> Surely he should be able to quickly and easily overpower a woman.
> He needs to hit the gym and redo his academy classes.
> That was just embarrassing.


That's what I thought. You don't play slaps with a female suspect for 5 minutes; you subdue them and apprehend them as quickly as possible with as little use of force as possible - and if you DO have to use it, you use it judiciously, with the same aim. Looked to me all he did was punch the girl so he could continue playing slaps. LOL

And it's not hard to do that; all he had to do was get her on the ground, and she could have been pretty much completely subdued within maybe 10 seconds. He chose to prolong it.

This being said...can you see him radioing for backup? "Yeah, Seattle 1 to HQ...I got a couple female jaywalkers here kicking my butt..I punched one of 'em but I'm still having a problem with the other one...request backup..."

:gaptooth:


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Those were stupid women. And you know what, it doesn't matter that they were women. There was no excuse for their ignorant behaviour.

Yeah, he was justified for popping that big strong hefty girl in the jaw. She's lucky he didn't slug her harder than he did. I would have if I was in his situation.

I think he was trying to control the smaller girl without causing her any physical harm. That's how it looked to me. She was a squirmy little thing and took advantage of his hesitation to hurt her. I didn't think he was firm enough with her, so no, he didn't really handle her very well. He should have called dispatch and have gotten his handcuffs out and ready and had her cuffed right after she got pugnacious and started resisting him.

My sympathy is all with the cop in this instance.

.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

After she shoved and slapped him , punching her out was justified to quickly space her back out of his face to take control of her and cuff her.

She should be glad he didn't snap his asp baton on her.


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## Gregg Alexander (Feb 18, 2007)

The cop took control of the subject. She is lucky a punch is all she got. Both women were resenting arrest. Cuff and stuff Dan O!!!
When will people learn when the cops say to do something DO IT!!


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

I don't buy that because they were women he could have taken better control. Those women were OUT OF CONTROL. Over reacting to a jay walking charge or it probably wouldn't have been much of anything IF they hadn't been freaking out. 

What we DON'T know is how he handled and talked to them BEFORE they freaked out. Was he nasty and combative in his attitute and the way he addressed them?

Still I think he was justified in his actions from what you can see in the video. She was a big woman who was not going to calm down.

Spare me the woman card. I wonder if this would have been a big of a deal if the officer was black or the women were white. White on black confortations DO get a bigger reaction.

And no I am not a man.


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## Steve L. (Feb 23, 2004)

Kung said:


> You don't play slaps with a female suspect for 5 minutes...


 Sorry Kung, but total elapsed time from the start of the video to the punch was 30 seconds. The 'slaps' started at about 10 seconds.


> And it's not hard to do that; all he had to do was get her on the ground, and she could have been pretty much completely subdued within maybe 10 seconds. He chose to prolong it.


:ashamed:


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## lilmizlayla (Aug 28, 2008)

he should have peppered sprayed them..No..he was NOT justified in punching her in the face. But thats typical of the types we have policing our streets. Doesnt surprise me a bit. 

I hope this guy is single..or else his wife/gf will have to learn how to duck when he gets upset


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

Completely justified.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

lilmizlayla said:


> he should have peppered sprayed them..No..he was NOT justified in punching her in the face. But thats typical of the types we have policing our streets. Doesnt surprise me a bit.
> 
> I hope this guy is single..or else his wife/gf will have to learn how to duck when he gets upset


I dunno...it appears to me it takes an awful lot to get the man upset...


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Steve L. said:


> Sorry Kung, but total elapsed time from the start of the video to the punch was 30 seconds. The 'slaps' started at about 10 seconds.
> :ashamed:


The videos that I have watched on it are 2:28. 
That is a small eternity.
It is long enough for someone to drown etc...
And sure too long to be wrestling with someone if you are a trained police officer.


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

lilmizlayla said:


> he should have peppered sprayed them..No..he was NOT justified in punching her in the face. But thats typical of the types we have policing our streets. Doesnt surprise me a bit.
> 
> I hope this guy is single..or else his wife/gf will have to learn how to duck when he gets upset


So your saying that it's typical that police beat women/wives/girlfriends when they get upset? I have been married 24 years next month and never hit my wife. None of my friends have ever hit their wives. I do know some police that have but I know a heck of a lot of other who do.
We used to have a female judge here that felt like you Layla. She thought all men were bad and if mearly accused by any woman of assault she would find them guilty. She is now a legal clerk working for an attorney. Not a judge,lawyer or even paralegal. A good lesson about stereotyping.


As far a I know there are only two that frequent this forum that actually know what they are talking about when it comes to this situation. 
One is me and the other has not chimed in yet. You can Monday morning quarter back all day long but in the end if you have never been in that situation, never done that job and were not there you have not got a clue.

Yes... his suspect control might have been better within the first few seconds. He second guessed himself. It happens with younger officers now more than it used to. If you don't know why, think back of all the times you have heard an officer in the news for something that he did "wrong"

Look at the difference in the majority of the opinions on this thread then, look at the national media coverage/opinion. There is a big difference. I'm glad to see that most on here support his decision for the most part.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

Pretty much a no win situation for the officer - a quick take down by a white man on a black woman would have garnered him just as much trouble as what he ended up with. And given the crowd might have gotten even more people interfering in the arrest. 

Apparently that particular spot has a pedestrian bridge in place for people to cross because the jay walking in that area has been a big problem causing accidents and property damage. 

The angst seems to be about the officers actions, but I think the women are the ones to blame, they refused to comply, got mouthy and then physically interfered. One of the news reports had a woman saying "what if this was your child, would you want your child getting punched?" I thought about that question - and all I see in it is enforcing the "victim" mentality and excusing bad behavior. If my children ever went against their raising and acted like those girls did then I would expect them to suffer the natural consequences. Compared to getting shot or beaten a single punch is a pretty mild consequence.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

I suspect that the punch will be ruled justifiable, since she clearly interfered with police business. However, this cop needs to look for another line of work. He isn't very good at dealing with situations like that. I think there is no question that his actions made a bad situation worse.

If I was his superior I would judge the punch justifiable, yet fire him for the inability to handle the situation calmly & effectively.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Justified, with a whole list of bad mistakes.

1. No use of command presence. He should have used an authoritative tone to control both the woman and the crowd.

2. No communication. He should have been on the radio making other officers aware of the situation.

3. Lousy situational awareness. He paid no attention to the people crowded around him. Any one of those people could have gotten ahold of his gun or cold cocked him.

4. Lousy technique. He should have had that woman in an arm bar and on the ground within 3 seconds.

5. I do not think he took the situation serious. If he had, and he had the proper training, he would have handled it differently. If these were gang bangers would he have spent 5 minutes playing patty-cake?


Should he be fired? No, not based on this one incident. He is probably a rookie, and was unsure of himself. Hopefully he learns from this, and maybe refreshes himself on basic police procedures and tactics.


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

plowjockey said:


> It sure didn't take long for the "rogue cop" to come out. Did you watch the video closely?
> 
> The officer was already trying to subdue an overly agressive suspect.
> 
> ...



Thank you. Things can turn so quickly and protecting his life is much more important. 

I want to know where his back up was as well. 

The crowd was rowdy, he was obviously out numbered and she was acting like an animal. She had *no* right to put her hands on him and he has every right to protect himself from her.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

tinknal said:


> Justified, with a whole list of bad mistakes.


Yes. The point is that criminal behavior is one thing, while proper behavior on the job is another. Just because his actions don't constitute criminal behavior doesn't mean that the department still wants him on the force.

That's a good point about him being a rookie. If he's still in training then that needs to be taken into consideration. From his actions he could very well be a rookie.


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## jbowyer01 (Aug 4, 2008)

I watched this on HLN this morning it was stated that this is not the first arrest for these two. I agree the policce officer should have handled it better, but if it were my kid acting out that way to a cop they'd be thankful if the punch was all they got after I got through with them. The one girls legal guardian was upset that the cop hit the kid, what about the kid resisting arrest and hitting a cop???? I just dont understand people these days.


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## jefferson (Nov 11, 2004)

It is very seldom these days that I get to say "Yea cop" but this one is justified. That said, I do think he should have thrown the punch sooner.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

While I was at lunch it was on the TV in the break room, the consensus was that she was lucky that was all she got, that the cop showed a lot of restraint and I sure agree.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

I will admitt that I did not read all the post on here, but I just saw this clip on the news and came here to see if there was a thread already...

Here is my question: Why should this woman be treated any better than if she were a man? If this would have been a video of a man pushing and clawing at a police officer, I doubt whether anyone would be having this discusion. (even if the man pushing the cop was the same size as the offending woman.)

I heard the gaurdian of the woman who got popped on the news just a few seconds ago... What ever happened to personal accountability??? She was going on-and-on about how no matter what this girl did, he had no right to put his hands on her... Eh???

...and as for women being weaker and one not needing as much force to be taken down: When my DH was deployed to Iraq one of his soldiers got pounced on by a "lady"... It took 2 other soldiers to pry her off of the original soldier, and that was AFTER she had stabbed soldier #1 with a screwdriver.

Personally, I say that if you want to start something, you better be ready for ANYTHING.

JMO...


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

chickenista said:


> Oh.. that cop needs a refresher course in how to apprehend and subdue a person.
> That was just pitiful.
> Surely he should be able to quickly and easily overpower a woman.
> He needs to hit the gym and redo his academy classes.
> That was just embarrassing.


The cop needs no such refresher course. He had his hands full with the girl who was refusing to comply. The second girl laid hands on him in an affort to interfere with him doing his job. She could easily have grabbed his gun and shot him, which is why I am amazed he didn't shoot HER. Never ever get so close behind a cop that you can grab his gun!

Do you think that there is a reason that resisting arrest is a criminal offense? People get hurt during struggles, and cops have an obligation to ensure that the person injured isn't them!

Chickenista, you clearly have more law enforcement experinece than the rest of us. Why don't you tell us how YOU would subdue an *angry mob*, which is the situation this cop wound up in. Seriously, you want to pass judgement, so lets hear some of your pearls of wisdom.


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

I can't watch the video, but I've read several posts, which are all typical of these types of situations- people who weren't there, have never been in such situations, diminishing the aggressor's behavior, all wanting to make armchair decisions that potentially could take away someone's livelihood and affect his future employment.

If someone is intent on doing wrong, interfering or resisting, no amount of "command presence" will change that. I always found it amazing that anyone would physically resist a police officer who typically is armed with sometimes TWO firearms, a chemical weapon, an impact weapon, and possibly an electronic weapon and knows how to use them all. What does THAT tell you about someone's state of mind when they are actively resisting? If they aren't afraid of being shot, why would they be afraid of "command presence"?


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

One problem is probably the officer had too much training. But it was politically correct treatment training. He had a female minority to deal with and this probably had him thinking more about the correct departmental procedures for the treatment of such an individual. If he had use an appropriate amount of force, arm bar to the ground, leg across the back of the neck to cuff her he'd be toss to the PC lions such as Sharpton and Jackson.

I also saw the clip of the guardian on HLN. Here's my thoughts. This criminal has no parents. . .surprise, surprise. When she said the criminal was "a good girl" I wonder what tape she had been watching. I don't think a "good girl" would have stepped in and smacked a cop. When she said something about it could be my daughter or son and what would I think about that. I thought if one of my kids laid hands on a cop for something like that I'd hope they'd be sitting in jail after their hospital visit.


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## DAVID In Wisconsin (Dec 3, 2002)

She's nuts. Acting like a wild woman. He should have turned the cameras off and beat her half to death.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

DAVID In Wisconsin said:


> She's nuts. Acting like a wild woman. *He should have turned the cameras off and beat her half to death*.


Look at the video again and pay attention to the crowd. The video was shot on a bystander's cel phone camera. There were several other people with cel phone cameras all capturing the same event. The cop had no control over turning off any cameras.

Your comment about how he should have beat her half to death is very offensive troll-talk. :flame:

.


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## Mooselover (May 4, 2009)

i think it takes a pretty brazen person to put their hands on a cop. 

looks like she recovered pretty quickly from that punch. if it had been me, i'd been on the ground, laid out flat. maybe she's been in a few fights and knows how to handle a punch?


imho, these are little punk wanna-be's. if they got a problem for being confronted by a cop for jay-walking, there's much more trouble ahead for them in the future. 

also...did anyone see a gun in that video? go back and look. it was brought up last night on 97.3 kiro's ron and don show. it's about the time the cop has her pinned on the hood. the guy is walking on the right of the screen.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Steve L. said:


> Sorry Kung, but total elapsed time from the start of the video to the punch was 30 seconds. The 'slaps' started at about 10 seconds.


Sorry yourself, but the video CONTINUED on for another minute or so with the cop STILL not having handcuffed the suspect, wrestling 'hand-to-hand' with her and so on.

That's my point - I think that he could have handled him via hand-to-hand combat techniques (i.e., 'takedown') better, but regardless, my point is that he let it go on for a few minutes. THAT is where he messed up. Yes, he got the other girl off his back but CONTINUED to wrestle with the first one. The entire reason (IMHO) for getting the second girl off his back was SO THAT he could subdue her, which he didn't for another few minutes.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Mooselover said:


> *i think it takes a pretty brazen person to put their hands on a cop. *
> looks like she recovered pretty quickly from that punch. if it had been me, i'd been on the ground, laid out flat. maybe she's been in a few fights and knows how to handle a punch?
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, but..

I heard a Black male Detroit Cop (6'3" 240lbs), call a radio show this morning, while this very topic was being discussed. Apparently this type of behavior by women, is is very common, at least on his beat.

Very often it's a domestic call, usually made by the woman. The officer attempts to cuff the man, the woman changes her mind and goes after the officer. These women are not the least bit hesitant to bring it on.

When the Detroit cop was asked if it was rare to have to punch a woman, to protect the officer from harm, the Officer just chuckled and stated "you need to do what you need to do", to make the situation safe.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Surprise . . *the* punch was on the CBS evening 'news' (katie couric) show
I only have 'over the air' tv--no cable.
thats why I was watching that most wonderful UNbiased channel.

must have been "a slow news day" for cbs to use that as a time filler.

any way it sure was good for a big chuckle.


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

Good point about the mob, CT. Had he not taken control of the situation who knows how the mob would have reacted. If they thought he wasn't one to resist they could have easily turned on him. 

Again-why didn't he have someone to back him up?


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

"You don't play slaps with a female suspect for 5 minutes..."

He wasn't playing slaps with a female suspect. He was attempting to subdue ONE female suspect when one or two MORE females decided to jump in and physically attack him. He was dealing with 2 or 3 people at one time. He could have drawn his pistol and made the odds a bit more even.

"I have been married 24 years next month and never hit my wife."

If you want to compare your situation to the cop's, then has your wife ever jumped on you and shoved you while you were dealing with one or two other women? In that situation I consider the punch justified, not to mention a pretty good shot. 
If a woman(or a man) wants to "duke it out" with the cops she shouldn't complain about getting a shot to the chops.:nono:


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

FourDeuce said:


> "You don't play slaps with a female suspect for 5 minutes..."
> 
> He wasn't playing slaps with a female suspect. He was attempting to subdue ONE female suspect when one or two MORE females decided to jump in and physically attack him. He was dealing with 2 or 3 people at one time. He could have drawn his pistol and made the odds a bit more even.


First, there were only two main ones involved.

SECOND, and most importantly (I've said this already but will say this again), his main objective was to subdue the first female. Obviously in order to do THAT he had to, uhm, 'neutralize' the second one.

Of course, the topic of debate is whether or not his method of doing so was 'acceptable'; but regardless, he DID neutralize her. At the very least, due to the actions of himself and others (such as the one guy in the blue shirt, I believe it was), after decking the one girl, he had only the 'main suspect' to deal with.

Now, HERE is my problem...

Once he *DID* 'neutralize' the second girl (the 'interference'), the ONLY thing he really HAD to deal with was the original suspect. All he had to do was subdue/neutralize her - take her down to the ground or put her hands behind her back.

He did NOT do that. He kept tangling with her, literally hand to hand, etc. I'm no cop but even I know how to subdue someone at least my size or slightly larger who does not know 'takedown' techniques; and I'm fairly sure that cop's been taught more than I have...yet he didn't utilize those.

For what reason, I'm not sure...but he simply failed to do so.


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## suzfromWi (Jun 1, 2002)

Kung said:


> Sorry yourself, but the video CONTINUED on for another minute or so with the cop STILL not having handcuffed the suspect, wrestling 'hand-to-hand' with her and so on.
> 
> That's my point - I think that he could have handled him via hand-to-hand combat techniques (i.e., 'takedown') better, but regardless, my point is that he let it go on for a few minutes. THAT is where he messed up. Yes, he got the other girl off his back but CONTINUED to wrestle with the first one. The entire reason (IMHO) for getting the second girl off his back was SO THAT he could subdue her, which he didn't for another few minutes.


This is how I feel also. I dont really care about the girl getting punched, she was being aggressive to a police officer. I care that this young cop didnt know how to get control of the situation. He could have been attacked by any of the onlookers. He looked like a newby at it, and I think thats all it took for the situation to escalate. More training for this young officer IS warrented and thats what hes getting now....These kids have no respect for the officers at all. No upbringing...I hope they get a huge fine and jail time...


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## lilmizlayla (Aug 28, 2008)

Just Cliff said:


> So your saying that it's typical that police beat women/wives/girlfriends when they get upset? I have been married 24 years next month and never hit my wife. None of my friends have ever hit their wives. I do know some police that have but I know a heck of a lot of other who do.
> We used to have a female judge here that felt like you Layla. She thought all men were bad and if mearly accused by any woman of assault she would find them guilty. She is now a legal clerk working for an attorney. Not a judge,lawyer or even paralegal. A good lesson about stereotyping.
> 
> 
> ...


yet you are taking up for him? 
I dont have to be an officer to know that a punch in the face to subdue an assailant....a woman....is completely unjustifiable.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

Justified. Also this was a case of J walking, so it might have originally been a case of writing up a fine or citation, by the women's attitude wouldn't be surprised if they tried to just brush off the cop and walk away. The situation went weird as it should have been routine and harmless if those female dogs didn't cop such an attitude.



> I dont have to be an officer to know that a punch in the face to subdue an assailant....a woman....is completely unjustifiable.


Pure bull manure. If a woman slaps me in the face because I did something stupid that is one thing. If I get slapped in the face for enforcing local law she is getting struck back.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

lilmizlayla said:


> yet you are taking up for him?
> I dont have to be an officer to know that a punch in the face to subdue an assailant....a woman....is completely unjustifiable.


The punch was not meant for nor was it used to subdue the woman, it was meant to and DID stop her assault on him. If you watch the video you will see it did subdue her because after he punched her she stopped her attempts to prevent him from arresting the first woman.

Let me ask you this; what should he have done?


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

lilmizlayla said:


> he should have peppered sprayed them..No..he was NOT justified in punching her in the face. But thats typical of the types we have policing our streets. Doesnt surprise me a bit.
> 
> I hope this guy is single..or else his wife/gf will have to learn how to duck when he gets upset


Agree. He should have used pepper spray or even tazed her. I'd have no problem with either given her attitude.
Hitting a woman in the face with a fist just seems so brutal.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

I'd like to point out something here.

People keep talking about what's justifiable and right and all that...and I'd like to point out that all of that is fairly IRRELEVANT. In the middle of an arrest people are going to have their sensibilities offended.

The job of a cop is NOT to avoid offending sensibilities. 

Let's be blunt - in this situation he was kinda screwed. No matter WHAT he did, most people are thinking "Jaywalking? Gimme a break."

Then the second girl jumps into it; and the cop has several options:

- radio for backup
- tase her (bro)
- pepper spray
- punch

There are other options but those are the main one. Now, our sensibilities dictate that the first and third options are the least 'offensive.'

However, that's from OUR point of view. From the COP'S point of view, he's got a mission - to uphold the law. As it applies to this situation his mission was to subdue the first subject. Unfortunately to do THAT he had to subdue the second subject.

In this case, the first option is a no-go. He'd have still had to detain them until backup arrived. The second....well, I think there'd have been an even bigger outcry.

The third option might have worked but you KNOW people would still have griped and complained - "Was all that REALLY necessary for jaywalking? Poor girl..."

My point is that it's very simple:

- regardless of the magnitude of the law, the law was broken
- regardless of their gender, they WERE resisting the cop
- regardless of her gender, the woman WAS interfering with a 'police operation'

and therefore the cop had to do SOMETHING. Sure there might have been better options, but there WAS no 'good' option in this case. HOWEVER, with the exception of the wrestling the cop continued to exhibit with the first subject, I think he handled it fairly well. He 'neutralized' the interference and did so quickly, and that was what he needed to do.

To be even more blunt, as much as we're complaining about the cop's 'overuse of force', I'm not sure if many note that the woman was still easily on her feet after the punch....so maybe this cop was a bit more smart and judicious in his use of force than he is being given credit for.


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

However anyone see's it here, right or wrong. There is now a person just like all of you that has most likely lost his career. He may not loose his job over it but mentally recovering from the scrutiny will be difficult if not impossible. 
Think about how you have felt when only a few people disect your every action. This guy has millions doing it and is very aware of it.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

Cliff said:


> Agree. He should have used pepper spray or even tazed her. I'd have no problem with either given her attitude.
> Hitting a woman in the face with a fist just seems so brutal.


Really???

Anyone, male or female, who wants to tangle better be prepped for the eventual outcome of that action.

As a woman, if I jumped on a dude and started fighting, I would expect for the guy to use whatever force he needed to get me off of him. There is NO way I would ever start a fist fight with a man and then complain if I got the worst of it.


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## hillbillly (Jun 28, 2009)

jaywalking ?? or harassment ? i suspect the selective enforcement of a petty offense on young blacks is a big part of why they resisted and why the crowd was hostile. a pair of middle-aged white women carrying bibles would never be cited for jaywalking. just saying.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

hillbillly said:


> jaywalking ?? or harassment ? i suspect the selective enforcement of a petty offense on young blacks is a big part of why they resisted and why the crowd was hostile. a pair of middle-aged white women carrying bibles would never be cited for jaywalking. just saying.


Your right about if they were carrying babies they wouldn't be charged with only jaywalking. Jaywalking in front of an officer with a child in hand or tow would result in an additional charge of endangering the welfare of a child in most police jurisdictions.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

lilmizlayla said:


> yet you are taking up for him?
> I dont have to be an officer to know that a punch in the face to subdue an assailant....a woman....is completely unjustifiable.


I see, women criminals get a free pass.................

That must be in your NOW manual.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

Not just a simple jaywalk. That area has a lot of traffic and jay walking caused so many issues that they built a pedestrian overpass. The area is well signed - they knew they were breaking the law the minute they stepped off the curb.

A deliberate choice was made to break the law, and then they failed to obey a lawful order to stop and the situation escalated. I don't care what color or gender they were - they broke the law and then escalated the situation by their actions. They alone are responsible for what happened.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

hillbillly said:


> jaywalking ?? or harassment ? i suspect the selective enforcement of a petty offense on young blacks is a big part of why they resisted and why the crowd was hostile. a pair of middle-aged white women carrying bibles would never be cited for jaywalking. just saying.


I read that this occurred outside a high school, 15 feet from an overhead walkway. So either the city, or the school went to great expense to provide an overhead walkway so that the students WOULDN'T jay walk there. Obviously this was a very big problem in the past. It is likely that the police department set the officer there on a regular basis because they are trying to make the area safer. Heaven forbid, if someone gets hit while jaywalking, the community would be up in arms. So the question remains, if there was a walkway, why would these people be jaywalking? *Because the policeman was there and they wanted to rub his face in it.*He was already ticketing someone else for jaywalking when this group decided to jaywalk.

I raised my kids in Orange County California, and was in front of area schools many many times when school was letting out. I got frustrated at the ones who would step from the curb (nowhere near a crosswalk) in front of traffic without looking, because they knew that it was the fault of the driver if they were hit, so there were many times when I had to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting them. Often a police car would be there, and low and behold, nobody jaywalked! I need to add that the jaywalkers were the exception, rather than the rule.

I made a mistake once trying to get to a Los Angeles business, and wound up in an inner city neighborhood at the time a high school let out. I spent 20 minutes at an intersection as thousands upon thousands of students poured out of the school and proceeded through a crosswalk at a traffic light. The light was red (for me) when I pulled up to it, and went through many many cycles of green, yellow, red before the wave of humanity in the crosswalk finally subsided so I could proceed. 

I guess color does matter, because in Orange County, the race makeup of the kids at the schools my kids attended was nearly even white and hispanic, with fewer blacks and asians and other groups. If the kids got out of hand the problem was dealt with as soon as it happened.

The students at the high school that let out that I described above in inner city Los Angeles were at least 90% black, with the rest mosty hispanic, and a handful of whites. The kids made no pretense of obeying the traffic light, with the exception of one nerdy little white kid that did stop when his light was red while the rest of the kids moved on. He looked at me and made a little wave. Soon his light turned green and he was off. It was funny in context. There were no adults there trying to make any semblance of order. No teachers or school officials or police. They clearly didn't care. If they ever do try, you will see L. A. Police officers outnumbered and fighting with lawbreakers, just like the video we all watched of the Seattle officer.


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

hillbillly said:


> jaywalking ?? or harassment ? i suspect the selective enforcement of a petty offense on young blacks is a big part of why they resisted and why the crowd was hostile. a pair of middle-aged white women carrying bibles would never be cited for jaywalking. just saying.


Yes, But I don't think a pair of middle aged women toting bibles would have assaulted a police officer either!


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

ladybug said:


> Yes, But I don't think a pair of middle aged women toting bibles would have assaulted a police officer either!


Touche!


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## jerzeygurl (Jan 21, 2005)

watcher said:


> One problem is probably the officer had too much training. But it was politically correct treatment training. He had a female minority to deal with and this probably had him thinking more about the correct departmental procedures for the treatment of such an individual. If he had use an appropriate amount of force, arm bar to the ground, leg across the back of the neck to cuff her he'd be toss to the PC lions such as Sharpton and Jackson.
> 
> I also saw the clip of the guardian on HLN. Here's my thoughts. This criminal has no parents. . .surprise, surprise. When she said the criminal was "a good girl" I wonder what tape she had been watching. I don't think a "good girl" would have stepped in and smacked a cop. When she said something about it could be my daughter or son and what would I think about that. I thought if one of my kids laid hands on a cop for something like that I'd hope they'd be sitting in jail after their hospital visit.


all very good points...

the police force is being neutered as we watch and complain about crime escalating. Like a lion with its teeth pulled YES its sad to watch. It was painful to watch him treat her with kid gloves, and her KNOW she could keep resisting.

I wonder, if the audience can be brought up on accessory charges for instigating and supporting the girls' actions. THERE is precedence for such.

AND YES if that was my child, i would be on national television apologising, once i over came the shame.


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## hillbillly (Jun 28, 2009)

ladybug said:


> Yes, But I don't think a pair of middle aged women toting bibles would have assaulted a police officer either!


maybe at an anti-abortion rally. 
besides the officer was assaulting them,
they didnt just walk up and hit a cop.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

hillbillly said:


> maybe at an anti-abortion rally.
> besides the officer was assaulting them,
> they didnt just walk up and hit a cop.


I would like to think you are kidding. Unfortunately, I know you aren't. The cop was detaining them. The one in the black shirt was bound and determined that she wasn't going to comply with a lawful order. He was trying to restrain her. Then the one in the pink shirt (a VERY BIG girl, bigger than the officer) stepped in and assaulted him. If the girl in the black shirt had simply done as she was asked, there would have been no problem. Once she committed herself, and escalated the action (and her violations), anything that happened to her was her fault. If she had just shut up and let the officer talk, he may have let her off with a warning. the worst that would have happened would have been a ticket with a fine, and since she intentionally jay walked in front of a police man, she deserved it.

She added resisting arrest. Why? Couldn't she control her mouth or her actions?

When the big girl in the pink shirt stepped in, she started her violations by assaulting an officer. She grabbed him and then pushed him. This caused him to let go of the first girl. If you watch the whole tape, she was being held back by another guy, and afterwards, he had to hold her back again.

No criminals would ever be apprehended if it was "OK" to merely walk away when told to stay by a police officer.

If a police man tries to pull you over to give you a ticket, is it OK to just ignore him and drive away? Why do you think it is OK when you are on foot?

You seem to think that there should be special leniency afforded the girls BECAUSE they are black, and apparently the girls thought so too. Lets hold everybody accountable regardless of their color.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

jerzeygurl said:


> all very good points...
> 
> the police force is being neutered as we watch and complain about crime escalating. Like a lion with its teeth pulled YES its sad to watch. It was painful to watch him treat her with kid gloves, and her KNOW she could keep resisting.
> 
> ...


I was actually impressed that one guy was actually trying to hold back the criminal who took the fist the face. She had to physically pull out of his hold to attack the LEO.


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

Just Cliff said:


> *As far a I know there are only two that frequent this forum that actually
> know what they are talking about when it comes to this situation.* One is me and *the other has
> not chimed in yet.* You can Monday morning quarter back all day long but in the end if you have never
> been in that situation, never done that job and were not there you have not got a clue.
> ...


******************************************************
Oh, I know that there are others on HT who are or have been in law enforcement......
but most have gone on. The reason that I have been late in putting in my $.02 cents 
worth is 2-fold. The first is because it is rather interesting to see what the arm chair 
quarterbacks have to say......so it pays to sit back and wait for those 'pearls of wisdom' 
to spew forth. The second, is because it really doesn't matter what those of us who 
have 'been there, done that' have to say......the quarter backs have already assessed 
the situation and in their minds, their answers are the only one's that matter and they 
will *NEVER *heed whatever anyone else has to say on it. The only reason 
that I care to comment, is not to convince the first group, but perhaps the rest 
who haven't yet come to a conclusion. 

We all know that the 'reason' that he initiated the stop on the girl(s) was for j-walking. 
I'm not going to get into whether that is a valid reason to make contact....
suffice to say it's on the books and he has sworn an oath to uphold the law......all the laws, 
not just the p.c. ones. In this case, p.c. could mean publicly challenged.....but I digress. 

The first thing that we notice when the tape starts, is that there is a disturbance 
involving a uniformed officer, next to a marked patrol car and two loud and obnoxious 
females who are resisting the officer's attempts to detain and arrest at least one of them. 
There is also a gathering crowd of irate 'citizens' with camera phones who are closing 
in and taunting him. That's all we know and that's *ALL* we need to know at 
this point. Shame on anyone who hinders or otherwise gets physical with the officer 
while in the performance of his duty. The girl who shoved him and pulled on his arms 
to affect the other girls' attempts at escape deserved exactly what she got. 
He used the force necessary to *STOP* her from further interfering. There 
are those who 'suggested' that he use pepper spray or he should have tazed her, 
but in running the video over and over again, I failed to see that he carried either 
on his person. He did have the option of hitting her or prodding her with his ASP 
or expandable baton, but that might have been perceived by the gathering crowd 
as 'excessive' as well. There are those who have chimed in that he should have 
taken her down to the ground, so as to have better control of her and then cuffed 
and stuffed her. All well and good when it's one on one......but with that gathering 
crowd (none of whom it appeared, wished him well) it was in his best interests 
to stay on his feet and stay focused on the task at hand. One wonders where 
his backup was, or if he even called for it earlier. Sometimes backup is on the 
other side of the world when the stuff hits the fan.....other times it's on the wrong 
side of a 10 foot chain link fence, topped with concertina wire and they still can't 
get there fast enough.

I'm reminded of a situation from my past, in which I was dispatched to a disturbance 
involved a drunken female at run-down subsidized federal housing project at the very 
end of evening shift. By myself......everyone else had already returned to the station......
graveyard shift was still in muster and getting their assignments for the shift change. 
I made contact with this large (and I mean large in the fact that while she wasn't tall, 
she was nearly as wide as she was high!) and about 25 yrs old. She was loud and 
obnoxious and swearing like a sailor. I told her to go back into her apartment and go 
to sleep. She told me what I could do with it and other parts of my anatomy.....
finally a 'friend' stated that she would help get her inside and put her to bed. 
I thought that was the end of it and returned to my unit and was about to leave, 
when the drunk suddenly appeared out of the darkness and started telling what else 
she would be doing to me since I was 'running away from her!" Figured, okay, 
this is a no-brainer......she was given the opportunity to a free pass home and she 
is now back and still causing trouble. Got out of the patrol car and started to 
approach her and then, as soon as I told her she was under arrest for public intoxication, 
the fight was on. She actually outweighed me and I was 185#, but her center 
of gravity was well below mine and I could NOT get her off her feet no matter 
what I tried to do. Leg sweeps meant nothing against those elephant like legs......
she would not go down and I could not get control of her arms either. This went on 
for at least 2-3 minutes and I did manage to get on my hand-held and radioed 
for assistance. Incompetence comes in many forms, and our department's civilian 
dispatchers were no exception. He apparently checked the log and noticed that 3233 
was out at those apartments and figured he'd have 3233 check by and assist 3233. 
And that's exactly what he did!!! He sent me to back up *ME*! 
The clickity-clack of radio's being keyed by other officers didn't exactly help my situation, 
but when it finally cleared......it was indeed welcome to hear that at least 2 other units 
were enroute to assist me. In the meantime, I stepped it up a notch in the force 
needed to get her under control. I began bouncing her off various parked cars 
nearby and eventually she grew tired of her ribs getting banged up and fell down. 
By the time the cavalry arrived, she was handcuffed and was approximately half-way 
into the back of the patrol unit......but I was spent. We needed all of us to pick her 
up and drag her across so we could shut the doors and get her to jail......I was beat.....
used up and worn out. I fought her non-stop for approximately 10 minutes and I never 
would have believed that she had the strength that she had. Found out later, 
that she'd put her live-in boyfriend in the hospital earlier that evening......
having beaten the living crap out of him; he ended up with a broken jaw and right arm. 


So I don't fault that officer in his 'restraint' in just popping her once in the snout.....



P.S. Congratulations Just Cliff on 24 yrs of wedded bliss. 
I just finished 16 and haven't smacked mine yet, either!


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Wags said:


> Not just a simple jaywalk. That area has a lot of traffic and jay walking caused so many issues that they built a pedestrian overpass. The area is well signed - they knew they were breaking the law the minute they stepped off the curb.
> 
> A deliberate choice was made to break the law, and then they failed to obey a lawful order to stop and the situation escalated. I don't care what color or gender they were - they broke the law and then escalated the situation by their actions. They alone are responsible for what happened.


Exactly my point...jaywalking is a crime for a reason; and too many people are worried about the sociocultural aspects here and not even considering the LEGAL aspects - as in, she was wrong to BREAK the law, wrong to evade/antagonize the cop, etc.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

ladybug said:


> Yes, But I don't think a pair of middle aged women toting bibles would have assaulted a police officer either!


Years ago Madalyn Murray O'Hair was charged with 32 counts of assault on 16 police officers in one incident, and she was in her 50s or 60s at the time.ound:
The charges were later dropped.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

While I was stationed in Germany we were given a tour and some short classes by the BundesGrenzSchutze, the German Border Police, who we often patrolled the border with. Those guys dealt with riots often, and they were very good at the job. They had some VERY effective techniques for handling rowdy people, but the big difference between them and American police forces is that the concept of police brutality is almost non-existant in Germany(no laws about it, anyway). They showed their techniques for handling rowdy protestors(there were a LOT of protests going on in Germany then). They had one technique where the cop grabbed the person by the hand(just the thumb) and twisted it around and down. You could see that it would be very painful, and most people will go down to the ground before their thumb breaks.
Another technique they demonstrated was grabbing a person by the head, with one hand on the chin and the other on top of the head, then "bulldogging" the person down to the ground by twisting their head around forcefully. Either the person goes down or their head comes off.:hysterical:


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I`m sorry, she got what she needed, don`t mess with an officer when he is doing his job. I don`t care if she is black,white,brown,yellow or purple. Never mess with an officer, unless what he is doing is illeagal .>Thanks Marc


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

springvalley said:


> I`m sorry, she got what she needed, don`t mess with an officer when he is doing his job. I don`t care if she is black,white,brown,yellow or purple. Never mess with an officer, unless what he is doing is illeagal .>Thanks Marc


Heard a good one this morning about an old saying, about assulting a State Patrol Officer. 

"Touch the Gray - you're gonna pay!"


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I worked in a prison with violent felons for 28 years. We make snap decissions all the time based on what we think is best at the time. Then when a situation gets out of hand, evolves in a way we had no way of expecting, we get juudged after the fact for not knowing how it would turn out. It is true hindsight is 20-20. 

If someone had snatched his Glock and shot him, people would be critical that he didn't react strong enough. If he used a tazer and she had a heart attack, people would be condeming that action. If he tried to wrestle with her and she broke an arm or his arm was broken, then hindsight would say he should have used pepper spray. 

Then there is the segment of society that condems the police no matter what.

Everyone looks like a Rookie to the general public. Most fights we see are in movies with miles of tape on the cutting room floor. Even good street fighters look silly when compared to a World Champion boxer.


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## Mooselover (May 4, 2009)

officier didn't have a tazer....budget cuts!!!


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

From another article about this incident:
_
Seattle police are conducting an internal investigation into the incident, but Metz has said the women bear much of the responsibility for resisting arrest.


Levias was arrested and booked into the King County Jail for obstructing a police officer. The 17-year-old was handcuffed and booked into the Youth Services Center for investigation of felony assault.

According to court records, Levias had previously been arrested for assaulting a police officer while resisting arrest last year at a youth center where she was a resident at the time. *The documents say that Levias kicked a King County Sheriff's deputy in the stomach during the confrontation at the Ruth Dykeman Center in Burien, Wash., about 15 miles south of Seattle.*_

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20008037-504083.html

So it seems that this girl is very comfortable in using violence against police officers. She will be punched again, tazed, pepper sprayed and possibly shot before her walk on this planet is over.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

Whoo! I just looked up the Ruth Dykeman Center to see why this girl may have been living there, as mentioned in my previous post and found this:

_In 1921, Judge King Dykeman saw many young women who needed support outside the home but there were no appropriate services for them. To address this problem, he founded Ruth School for Girls, which later became Ruth Dykeman Children's Center. Originally, the agency was located in Seattle&#8217;s Ravenna district but moved to its present eight and a half acre campus on the shore of Lake Burien in 1931.* Over the next 60 years, the agency slowly expanded its residential programs to serve boys and girls, ages 6 to seventeen, with serious behavioral, emotional and psychological disturbances. This is the same population being served today in the Behavioral Rehabilitation Services program. *_So it would seem that this troubled young woman has a long history of resorting to violence.

http://www.ruthdykeman.org/about/


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## fetch33 (Jan 15, 2010)

I don't think he hit her hard enough. Those that defy the authority of the police should be held accountable. Should have tasered them both.


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## hillbillly (Jun 28, 2009)

a cop that abuses his authority and harasses then assaults his victims deserves no respect all all. the city should install a video camera there to monitor activity as there is no doubt at all that some cops are bad cops. thats why there are Internal Affairs units and cities and states are compelled to pay damages for bad behavior from cops





i


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

hillbillly said:


> a cop that abuses his authority and harasses then assaults his victims deserves no respect all all. the city should install a video camera there to monitor activity as there is no doubt at all that some cops are bad cops. thats why there are Internal Affairs units and cities and states are compelled to pay damages for bad behavior from cops
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are either completely unreasonable, or you didn't watch the whole 2+ minute video. The girl that got punched assaulted the police officer before she was punched. She wasn't the one he was trying to arrest. She assaulted the officer by grabbing him and pushing him. There are no circumstances where that is OK.

Here is the whole video. http://www.lepak.tv/index.php?page=videos&section=view&vid_id=108741


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## hillbillly (Jun 28, 2009)

that girl was defending her friend .


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

She was interfering with an arrest. She was assaulting a police officer for at least the second time in her young life. How many times have you assaulted a police officer?

I am 51 years old, grew up in Seattle and around that very same police department, and I have NEVER assaulted a police officer.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

hillbillly said:


> maybe at an anti-abortion rally.
> besides the officer was assaulting them,
> they didnt just walk up and hit a cop.


LOL! Are you serious?

Although actually I do agree with you...they didn't just walk up and hit a cop.

They walked up, fussed @ him, wrestled around, resisted being detained, AND hit the cop.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

hillbillly said:


> that girl was defending her friend .


And by doing so she was IMPEDING the police. Regardless of what we feel about whether it was 'right' or not to hit the girl, it is UNDENIABLE that

- they BOTH jaywalked (against the law)
- the cop DID have a right to detain them
- they DID resist him, and
- her 'friend' DID interfere.

Furthermore, as you evidently have not read, this is NOT the first time the girl(s) have dealt with cops. And yet this is somehow the cop's fault? I'd agree with what Tator said - you either are being completely unreasonable OR haven't seen the video, *OR* read the stories about this girl.


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## hillbillly (Jun 28, 2009)

Common Tator said:


> She was interfering with an arrest. She was assaulting a police officer for at least the second time in her young life. How many times have you assaulted a police officer?
> 
> I am 51 years old, grew up in Seattle and around that very same police department, and I have NEVER assaulted a police officer.


I would if one crossed the line and unjustifiably put his hands on me or my family. The law still reads Innocent until convicted by a jury - not a cop delivering street justice. I am 52 years old and never once have I even heard of anyone calling jaywalking a crime but if it is a crime then I guess we better start building more juvenile detention centers to hold the millions of kids that jaywalk. There is no state or federal jaywalking law, its just a city ordinance like a parking ticket. Now can anyone show me a video of a white kid being arrested for jaywalking ? This is racist selective enforcement of a minor city ordinance, not even a jail-able offense just a fine . I hope her parents sue the city which then fires the cop. Cops need to learn the limits of their authority and leave their bigotry at home.


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## hillbillly (Jun 28, 2009)

Kung said:


> .... I'd agree with what Tator said - you either are being completely unreasonable OR haven't seen the video, *OR* read the stories about this girl.


As satisfying as it must be to respond to rational argument with personal attacks like you and others have done, I will not lower myself to respond in kind. But allow me to give assurances that I do indeed know how to read and did so. I also know how to reason, and have done so. The fact that I arrived at a different conclusion does not prove any defect in me, its just the American way. You should appreciate that freedom even when the other guy disagrees with you instead of disparaging them.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

hillbillly said:


> As satisfying as it must be to respond to rational argument with personal attacks like you and others have done, I will not lower myself to respond in kind.


It's not a personal attack; I was being serious. I've spoken to military police, civilian police, other security types about this very situation and ALL of them essentially agree that while the specific 'type' of force used might have been questionable, he was sort of limited in the scope of his response; and given the situation and the limitations there's not much different he COULD have done. This means that you either didn't see the video (which evidently is wrong) or you were being 'unreasonable.' Considering that the aforementioned types disagree with you, I lean towards the second. :shrug:



> fact that I arrived at a different conclusion does not prove any defect in me, its just the American way. You should appreciate that freedom even when the other guy disagrees with you instead of disparaging them.


Oh, I do appreciate the freedom. It's not your simple disagreement that had my concern; it's placing the blame on the cop for 'abusing/harassing/assaulting' when literally EVERYONE in a position of authority where police tactics and policy are concerned has said that the cop wasn't really doing anything wrong (other than failing to bring the girl under control sooner).


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

hillbillly said:


> I would if one crossed the line and unjustifiably put his hands on me or my family.


You aren't qualified to decide if an officer "unjustifiably" puts hands on your family member. You have demonstrated that with your posts. You refuse to acknowledge ANY wrongdoing on the part of the girls, and keep throwing racism in where it has no place.

That is why domestic calls are so deadly for police officers. Someone decides they are above the law and decide to assault the police.

There are proper ways of dealing with this. Assaulting a police officer isn't one of them.


hillbillly said:


> The law still reads Innocent until convicted by a jury - not a cop delivering street justice. I am 52 years old and never once have I even heard of anyone calling jaywalking a crime but if it is a crime then I guess we better start building more juvenile detention centers to hold the millions of kids that jaywalk. There is no state or federal jaywalking law, its just a city ordinance like a parking ticket.


Jaywalking laws are there to protect pedestrians from being hit on the street.

The girls knew jaywalking was a ticketing offense when they did it in front of a police officer, who was already ticketing someone else for jaywalking. They were refusing to stick around for the ticket. Instead, they escalated the problem by resisting the lawful order of the officer to stick around to be ticketed. That is when the violence started, and that is when they increased what would have been a fine to pay and went straight to jail time and a criminal record (or I should say more of a criminal record, since these girls are repeat offenders.

There is a very good chance that hey would have been warned without a ticket if they had stopped when told and been respectful.



hillbillly said:


> Now can anyone show me a video of a white kid being arrested for jaywalking ? This is racist selective enforcement of a minor city ordinance, not even a jail-able offense just a fine . I hope her parents sue the city which then fires the cop. Cops need to learn the limits of their authority and leave their bigotry at home.


There are exceptions, of course, but most white kids either would have used the crosswalk or pedestrian overpass that was provided. If he officer tried to stop them, they probably would have stopped.

And here is another difference. As a mother, if it was one of my kids on the news for being punched after assaulting a police officer, you wouldn't find me on TV saying what a good kid they were. When my kids were young, I told them that if they ever got arrested and I had reason to believe they were guilty, they would have to hire their own attorney, pay for him and post their own bail, because I wasn't going to risk their fathers and my retirement so that they could sow their wild oats. They both looked horrified at the time, but it worked. The kids grew to adulthood without ever getting into trouble with the law.

If you watch the video, you see one or more young black men who have a better grasp of the situation, and reality than the young women. There was one young man holding back the one that got punched for as long as he could. She finally broke away from him so she could assault the officer and get a face full of knuckles. Had she heeded his warning, she would have just been another bystander, or at worst, been ticketed.

Most blacks are also better citizens and would have stopped when told and accepted their ticket or warning. These girls believed themselves to be above the law, and were going to do what they were going to do and weren't going to let any one or any thing get in their way.


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## sirquack (Feb 18, 2009)

Kung said:


> First, there were only two main ones involved.
> 
> SECOND, and most importantly (I've said this already but will say this again), his main objective was to subdue the first female. Obviously in order to do THAT he had to, uhm, 'neutralize' the second one.
> 
> ...


Sorry I am late to the party, I have a few friends and some family members that are in law enforcement and our discussions were all pretty similar. The punch to the chops of the gal solved her interference, she walked away, so the punch served the intention of getting her out of the mix. 
The friends and family all said the officer was in a difficult situation because as others have mentioned, there were no less the 3-5 cell phones recording his every move. He also likely did not want to take the suspect down, as was evidenced by the fact that he had her pinned against the car to finally cuff her. Had he taken her down, with him also going to the ground, he would have been in a much more difficult position to defend himself had others decided to get involved. Most police officers are told to not go to the ground with a suspect unless you have back up, or the area is secure. In this case that does not appear to be the situation. 
And several people have mentioned he had not called for back up, I am guessing he had already done that before the video started rolling. And he is not likely to call for more back up while dealing with the resisting female with both hands. 
What amazes me, as we can see here with human nature, all of the camera's are now immediately out when the cops are "harrassing" someone, but when a fight occurs or even a shooting, no one seems to have seen anything. That I find to be a major load of bull excrement.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

sirquack said:


> Sorry I am late to the party, I have a few friends and some family members that are in law enforcement and our discussions were all pretty similar. The punch to the chops of the gal solved her interference, she walked away, so the punch served the intention of getting her out of the mix.


Exactly. Yeah, it might not be the most 'orthodox' method, but as I mentioned before, and as others have noticed, she WAS walking around later in the video - having to be restrained by the guy in the blue shirt - so either the cop wasn't too strong, OR did hit her but exercised some restraint with the strength of the blow.



> Had he taken her down, with him also going to the ground, he would have been in a much more difficult position to defend himself had others decided to get involved. Most police officers are told to not go to the ground with a suspect unless you have back up, or the area is secure. In this case that does not appear to be the situation.


Hrm...now that I was NOT aware of, although it makes sense and explains a lot. Although I'm sure that he could still have 'neutralized' her (spun her around quickly, put her in a half/full Nelson, etc.) without taking her to the ground.



> And several people have mentioned he had not called for back up, I am guessing he had already done that before the video started rolling. And he is not likely to call for more back up while dealing with the resisting female with both hands.


Most cops in our area will call for backup before they even exit the car; so that makes sense as well. Even for a standard traffic stop, one cop will pull up, radio for backup, and then get out of the car ONLY when the second car arrives.

@ Common Tator: I agree completely with your statement about being wrong and arrested. My father was the same way. If I was in the wrong, he would usually tell me that being detained in jail would be nothing compared to what happened when I got home.  I mean, my father loves me, but by the same token, blood means nothing when I'm flat out in the wrong.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

hillbillly said:


> I would if one crossed the line and unjustifiably put his hands on me or my family. The law still reads Innocent until convicted by a jury - not a cop delivering street justice. I am 52 years old and never once have I even heard of anyone calling jaywalking a crime but if it is a crime then I guess we better start building more juvenile detention centers to hold the millions of kids that jaywalk. There is no state or federal jaywalking law, its just a city ordinance like a parking ticket. Now can anyone show me a video of a white kid being arrested for jaywalking ? This is racist selective enforcement of a minor city ordinance, not even a jail-able offense just a fine . I hope her parents sue the city which then fires the cop. Cops need to learn the limits of their authority and leave their bigotry at home.


I don't have a video for you, but in Elmhurst, IL, in 2005 my idoit (white, male, 16 year old) cousin got arrested for riding his bicycle on the sidewalk.

It is against the laws of that town. He knew it, but he never got busted for it, so he kept doing it. He got stopped by a cop, the cop told him he couldn't ride on the sidewalk and my idiot cousin got all mouthy.

He told the cop to do some nasty things to his sister and get a life, it was a stupid law and he wasn't going to listen to a "pig"... Yeah, my cousin is an IDIOT.

So, the cop told him to get off the bike and come to the cop car, idiot cousin tried to peddle off, so the cop tossed his tush to the ground and arrested him. GOOD FOR THE COP!

What the cop did to him was NOTHING compared to what he got from my aunt & uncle. The cop even told my uncle that idiot would have not even gotten a ticket had he just moved the bike to the road.

So, YES, white kids get arrested for acting stupid, just like everyone else.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

hillbillly said:


> that girl was defending her friend .


Exactly what was she defending her friend from?? 

So Police Officers can't put people under arrest anymore? The Officer was trying to cuff the woman, which, at least for now they are still legally empowered to do. The woman was resisting arrest, which is, at least for now, is illegal.

This is just another example of making the perpetrators into the victims.



> cop that abuses his authority and harasses then assaults his victims deserves no respect all all. the city should install a video camera there to monitor activity as there is no doubt at all that some cops are bad cops. thats why there are Internal Affairs units and cities and states are compelled to pay damages for bad behavior from cops


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

lilmizlayla said:


> yet you are taking up for him?
> I dont have to be an officer to know that a punch in the face to subdue an assailant....a woman....is completely unjustifiable.


Sound's about right.

Women want, demand and deserve equality, but for some women, continuing to play the "victim card", will assist them in getting the upper hand.

Besides, the old saying, "never hit a lady", one should have to be behaving like a lady, in order to gain that respect.

Google "girls fighting" and view how, it went from "ladies", to a generation of violent female savages.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

hillbillly said:


> As satisfying as it must be to respond to rational argument with personal attacks like you and others have done, I will not lower myself to respond in kind. But allow me to give assurances that I do indeed know how to read and did so.


Who attacked you? Do you have skin thick enough to handle GC?

I would like to know what rational argument you have made? It is impossible to have a rational argument with someone who refuses to acknowledge facts. You refuse to acknowledge that the girls did anything wrong. 

Your premise, that said fair maidens were lawfully minding their own business when the big bad cop punched one in her dainty snout for no reason at all (other than their skin color), really insults our intelligence. Those of us who watched the video and read the articles know different. We know that the girls already have rap sheets, one includes assaulting a police officer a year ago while she was living in a *facility for serious behavioral, emotional and psychological disturbances.* How many people did she beat up in order to have a court of law send her to that facility? Were they kids? Were they elderly?



hillbillly said:


> I also know how to reason, and have done so. The fact that I arrived at a different conclusion does not prove any defect in me, its just the American way. You should appreciate that freedom even when the other guy disagrees with you instead of disparaging them.


I respect your freedom of speech. I disagree with you on every point you have made in this thread, and there will be no common ground until you acknowledge the facts of the case.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

plowjockey said:


> Sound's about right.
> 
> Women want, demand and deserve equality, but for some women, continuing to play the "victim card", will assist them in getting the upper hand.
> 
> ...


I agree with you, clear up to the last line. We are still raising ladies. But not all little girls grow up to be ladies. We are still raising gentlemen. Not all little boys grow up to be gentlemen.

Look at our troops. We are still raising fine young men and women.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

plowjockey said:


> Sound's about right.
> 
> Women want, demand and deserve equality, but for some women, continuing to play the "victim card", will assist them in getting the upper hand.
> 
> Besides, the old saying, "never hit a lady", one should have to be behaving like a lady, in order to gain that respect.


Agreed. I'll be honest and say that, given my upbringing, I'm STILL not sure that I could have done what he did - it's simply ingrained to treat women with respect (regardless of whether they deserve it LOL).

HOWEVER, PJ has a point. One would think that equality would mean equality in all areas, period.

Besides, have you compared the size of the cop to the girls? Suspect 1 is same size, maybe slightly smaller. Suspect 2, however, is easily bigger than the cop. LOL


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Common Tator said:


> I agree with you, clear up to the last line. We are still raising ladies. But not all little girls grow up to be ladies. We are still raising gentlemen. Not all little boys grow up to be gentlemen.
> 
> Look at our troops. We are still raising fine young men and women.


Very true, but how nice would it be, if we could get nearly everybody on board?

Starting with our own kids, is a great place to start.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Kung said:


> Agreed. I'll be honest and say that, given my upbringing, *I'm STILL not sure that I could have done what he did *- it's simply ingrained to treat women with respect (regardless of whether they deserve it LOL).
> 
> HOWEVER, PJ has a point. One would think that equality would mean equality in all areas, period.
> 
> Besides, have you compared the size of the cop to the girls? Suspect 1 is same size, maybe slightly smaller. Suspect 2, however, is easily bigger than the cop. LOL


Same here, but some cops deal with very violent women, on a regular basis. 

They may certainly see things differently.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

plowjockey said:


> Same here, but some cops deal with very violent women, on a regular basis.
> 
> They may certainly see things differently.


Oh, of course. Suffice to say that I don't exactly deal with the female dregs of society on a regular basis. If I did, I'm sure my opinion would change in a hot minute.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

hillbillly said:


> I would if one crossed the line and unjustifiably put his hands on me or my family. The law still reads Innocent until convicted by a jury - not a cop delivering street justice. I am 52 years old and never once have I even heard of anyone calling jaywalking a crime but if it is a crime then I guess we better start building more juvenile detention centers to hold the millions of kids that jaywalk. There is no state or federal jaywalking law, its just a city ordinance like a parking ticket. Now can anyone show me a video of a white kid being arrested for jaywalking ? This is racist selective enforcement of a minor city ordinance, not even a jail-able offense just a fine . I hope her parents sue the city which then fires the cop. Cops need to learn the limits of their authority and leave their bigotry at home.


You are free to do that but you must be willing to take the consequences of your actions. This criminal took an action she had to know was stupid as well as illegal and she got some consequences. She will face more when she is put on trial for assault on a police officer.


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## hillbillly (Jun 28, 2009)

oh gimme a break. i'd gladly bet a dollar that each and everyone on their high horses taking about the 'criminal' act of crossing a street has done the 'crime' several times in their own life. and that bit about how 'most white kids would have obeyed the law' is purely racist, Q.E.D. As for her being in a facility for emotionly disturbed children - that just makes that cop even worse assuming he knew that he was punching a juvenile with mental issues. I guess she and her friends are lucky to even be alive after jaywalking. LOL


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

hillbillly said:


> and that bit about how 'most white kids would have obeyed the law' is purely racist, Q.E.D. As for her being in a facility for emotionly disturbed children - that just makes that cop even worse assuming he knew that he was punching a juvenile with mental issues. LOL


Well, seeing that the one he punched is as big as a grown man,and bigger than him, he probably assumed she was an adult. She does look much older than her age in the tape. If they had identified her as being in her 20's or 30's, I would have believed it, because she looks older.


Common Tator said:


> Most blacks are also better citizens and would have stopped when told and accepted their ticket or warning. These girls believed themselves to be above the law, and were going to do what they were going to do and weren't going to let any one or any thing get in their way.


See, here's the thing. You waded into the swamp otherwise known as General Chat, and then complained that it is full of alligators. To tell the truth, there are periods of time I don't visit here because it is a little too intense for me, and other times I have to speak up. But I understand what it is. You need to understand what it is too.

You whined that we were making personal attacks upon your delicate sensibilities when in fact, we were TRYING to have a rational discussion. As I have said, this is impossible because you refuse to acknowledge the facts of this case.

However, calling me a racist IS a personal attack, and so I challenge you to prove it, or apologize and cease and desist from name calling. If you want to see a racist, look through this thread and see who it is that consistently insists that the girls should have never been stopped because of their race. That person is YOU.

_"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. " - Dr Martin Luther King_

Look at the content of the two girl's character. Look at their actions. Look at their speech (which has been edited on the tape as racist slurs were being hurled at the white cop). Look at how they react to authority. I don't care what color their skin is. I care what their actions are.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Good post. I don't even bother responding to accusations of being racist, actually, because I *KNOW* better and don't need to prove it. My friends - a good mixture of black, white, and latino, with an asian or two - KNOW me and I don't have to prove it to them.


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## poorboy (Apr 15, 2006)

She shoved a cop an resisted..Got what could be expected from such actions..


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

Common Tator said:


> Well, seeing that the one he punched is as big as a grown man,and bigger than him, he probably assumed she was an adult. She does look much older than her age in the tape. If they had identified her as being in her 20's or 30's, I would have believed it, because she looks older.
> 
> 
> See, here's the thing. You waded into the swamp otherwise known as General Chat, and then complained that it is full of alligators. To tell the truth, there are periods of time I don't visit here because it is a little too intense for me, and other times I have to speak up. But I understand what it is. You need to understand what it is too.
> ...


******************************************
The round and the *WIN* go to CommonTatar. She proved her points......
while hillbillly presented statements as 'fact' which was not in evidence, from the information 
that was shown. Clearly we now know who the 'racist' is. I'd rather debate someone 
on the level playing field of reason, rather than the rolling ups and downs of a racist 
who changes with the wind; they have already lost whatever fight they're in, they 
just don't know it yet. And sadly, they probably never will.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

> oh gimme a break. i'd gladly bet a dollar that each and everyone on their high horses taking about the 'criminal' act of crossing a street has done the 'crime' several times in their own life.


Seriously? Yeah everyone j walks, but not everyone does it in an area with traffic heavy enough to warrant a police officer to be there to discourage it. J walking after hours in an empty town is one thing, j walking in broad day light in a metropolis with heavy commuter traffic is a little different. And if these hussies couldn't respect a cop I doubt they respect motorists either.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

hillbillly said:


> oh gimme a break. i'd gladly bet a dollar that each and everyone on their high horses taking about the 'criminal' act of crossing a street has done the 'crime' several times in their own life. and that bit about how 'most white kids would have obeyed the law' is purely racist, Q.E.D. As for her being in a facility for emotionly disturbed children - that just makes that cop even worse assuming he knew that he was punching a juvenile with mental issues.
> 
> *I see no reason to assume that. Nothing in the video suggests that she spent time in a mental facility or that the cop was aware of that(other than her irrational assault on the cop).*
> 
> I guess she and her friends are lucky to even be alive after jaywalking. LOL


Funny how you try to connect her jaywalking with her possible death without even mentioning ANY activity going on between them. You did watch the video where 2 or 3 girls got involved in assaulting the cop, didn't you? If you watched another video that might explain your "missing" their assault on the cop. Anybody watching the video I watched should have been able to clearly see at least 2(maybe 3) people assaulting one cop.
What happened in the video you watched after the cop tried to detain the jaywalker? What actions were done by the people?:hrm:


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

tinknal said:


> He is obviously a rookie. He is lucky he was dealing with a couple of divas and not real criminals.


Well, the young 'lady' that got punched had charges of 2nd degree ROBBERY dropped and is under abeyance for AUTO THEFT. She 'apologized' to the officer because if she did not she might wind up in prison for the AUTO THEFT. Not Divas, thugs and hoodlums.

She deserved it.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Prismseed said:


> Seriously? Yeah everyone j walks, but not everyone does it in an area with traffic heavy enough to warrant a police officer to be there to discourage it. J walking after hours in an empty town is one thing, j walking in broad day light in a metropolis with heavy commuter traffic is a little different. And if these hussies couldn't respect a cop I doubt they respect motorists either.



The SCHOOL asked for a police presence to deter 'j-walking'

btw, I don't j walk and neither do my kids. Of course we don't spend much time in town, either.


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## HOTW (Jul 3, 2007)

Justified and she learned to back off she didn't interfere after that. The big issue here is the girl was resisiting srrest and the crowd(large percentage of black people) were being passive aggressive. The officer was trying to not use undue force to arrest the girl and trying to get her to place her hands behind her back so he could cuff her. Th epeople should have just told her to calm down and do as the cop said. Would the situation been different if the cop was black? Probably.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

These folks create lots of jobs if it weren't for those people the economy would of already crashed . She'll get another chance to get slugged or shot . Want to bet on it :cowboy:


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Sawmill Jim, I know you are being funny, but when I worked in a prison, there were plenty of felons that believed that their actions really helped creeate jobs and improve the economy. I think that if we could have shipped all the prisoners away, closed the prisons, reduced the police forces due to fewer criminals, we could either improve education, help attract businesses or simply reduce the tax burden, we could have a much stronger economy.

What a disapointment for the cell phone cameramen. Just think how valuable those clips would be if she'd gotten his gun and shot him or if he'd taken her to the ground and everyone piled on with random kicks to the cop's head.

"Don't punch a lady." Who saw any lady?
Give her a shot of pepper spray and she runs off blindly into the crowd or into the highway. Give her the tazer and the crowd rushes the cop. Sort of hard to get the Glock out when you've got your hands full of broad and tazer.

Leasons learned: You can get national attention if you resist the cops with plenty of simpothetic bystanders around. Pay attention to the restraint training the Academy gave you, you might need it someday. Police Departments do not send their best officers to patrol a school's J walking complaint.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Haypoint yep you got me :bow: But just think of the paper alone that is processed into records of crooks the transporting those good chains they ware someone made all this stuff even the striped outfits some got orange :shrug:

I know a kid started at 10 is now getting close to 18 is never out more than two weeks . I guess some think it is better than welfare he gets three meals a day no rent ,upkeep every thing furnished even doctors . Even got him a driver for his transportation an a guard for his house to keep him home and safe .

And when they do kick off the county will plant them more lumber wasted and some fool will say what a good guy he was :nono:


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

hillbillly said:


> oh gimme a break. i'd gladly bet a dollar that each and everyone on their high horses taking about the 'criminal' act of crossing a street has done the 'crime' several times in their own life.


You'd win the dollar....however, I've ALSO had a cop wave me over to talk to him (2 times, in fact) and *BOTH* times I walked over and respectfully listened to him and admitted I was in the wrong.



> and that bit about how 'most white kids would have obeyed the law' is purely racist, Q.E.D.


You obviously missed the point where someone else said that most BLACKS would have obeyed the law as well.



> As for her being in a facility for emotionly disturbed children - that just makes that cop even worse assuming he knew that he was punching a juvenile with mental issues.


Ah, so now cops are required to somehow know the history of each person before interfacing with them? That's ridiculous.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Ah, so now cops are required to somehow know the history of each person before interfacing with them? That's ridiculous.

Yep someone J walking in front of a cop the cop would have to think they were either nuts or coming after him :duel: In the case of being mental their keeper should been there . And if i was the cop i would charge the parents with neglect if you want to play the crazy card . Some people are just plain mean . I am sure some here would take up for Ma Barker too :clap::clap:


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## lilmizlayla (Aug 28, 2008)

Prismseed said:


> Seriously? Yeah everyone j walks, but not everyone does it in an area with traffic heavy enough to warrant a police officer to be there to discourage it. J walking after hours in an empty town is one thing, j walking in broad day light in a metropolis with heavy commuter traffic is a little different. And if these hussies couldn't respect a cop I doubt they respect motorists either.


wrong. i did it FOUR freaking times in front of a courthouse..in front of a State boy just this past thursday. 

I dont have time to wait for a dang light. 

he just smiled and waved. 

I still say punching a woman in the face is inexcusable and unjustified .


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

wrong. i did it FOUR freaking times in front of a courthouse..in front of a State boy just this past thursday. 

I dont have time to wait for a dang light.

Lots of things you can do lots of times . But one time to many you may wind up being a hood ordainment or the wrong cop :smiley-laughing013: If you live you may learn and a woman or anyone breaking one law may very well not respect anything at all . Cops have a family too they want to go home of a night too.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

lilmizlayla said:


> I still say punching a woman in the face is inexcusable and unjustified .


And you will probably be saying that right up until some young thing kicks your butt to kingdom come! 

Back in 80's when I was at the police academy I was the smallest cadet in my class, (5'4" - 125lbs) but having grown up as a farm girl with only male cousins to play with I could easily beat the snot out of a lot of guys. My physical tactics instructor used me to "knock the cocky outta" a few of the guys who thought that subduing a female suspect would be a piece of cake.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Riverdale said:


> Well, the young 'lady' that got punched had charges of 2nd degree ROBBERY dropped and is under abeyance for AUTO THEFT. She 'apologized' to the officer because if she did not she might wind up in prison for the AUTO THEFT. Not Divas, thugs and hoodlums.
> 
> She deserved it.


Oh I agree she deserved it. My point is that if he had dealt with a couple of guys willing to go toe to toe with him in the same manner that he dealt with those girls he would have been in a world of hurt.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

lilmizlayla said:


> wrong. i did it FOUR freaking times in front of a courthouse..in front of a State boy just this past thursday.
> 
> I dont have time to wait for a dang light.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely amazing! You tout an organization (NOW) that advocates for women to be treated as equals in society, and when a woman *THUG* gets treated like a male thug you whine and cry.

BTW they are not thugs because they J-walked, they are thugs because they acted like spoiled entitled brats when challenged for their behavior.

If the Trooper had stopped you for your J-walking would you have behaved like them? If so you would have deserved a clout in the snout.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

lilmizlayla said:


> wrong. i did it FOUR freaking times in front of a courthouse..in front of a State boy just this past thursday.


Well aren't you a bad motor scooter. :gaptooth:

Just because one can successfully not only disregard a standing law, but flout it to the authorities who are supposed to uphold the law, doesn't mean it's right.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

The point everyone has missed time and time again is the fact that before he smacked her she was trying to prevent him from arresting the other woman. AFTER he smacked her she left him alone to do his job. In the clip you can even see her standing several feet away from the action. So the point is the blow to the face did exactly what the LEO wanted and needed it to do, it stopped her from interfering.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Actually, I pointed that out several times. I ALSO pointed out the fact that if she's standing around AFTER the punch...then it must not have hurt that much...and just maybe the cop DID exercise a judicious use of force.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

watcher said:


> The point everyone has missed time and time again is the fact that before he smacked her she was trying to prevent him from arresting the other woman. AFTER he smacked her she left him alone to do his job. In the clip you can even see her standing several feet away from the action. So the point is the blow to the face did exactly what the LEO wanted and needed it to do, it stopped her from interfering.


I'm reminded of the old joke about the old man trying to teach a mule something. A guy walks by and sees an old man trying to teach a mule to do something. The old guy has a piece of 2X4 in his hand, and the passerby asks him what he's doing. He said, "I'm trying to teach this mule something."
The passerby asks him, "What's the 2X4 for?", and the old man replies, "First you gotta get his attention." :bash:
From the video I saw, it sure looked like the cop got her attention pretty quick, and got her hands off him, too.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Perhaps in your town, cops allow you to J walk. Seems the nearby school had called ther cops with a problem with J walkers. So this cop gets assigned to the area to make things safer and while he stands there, she J walks.

A friend that has to drive past an inner-city school, told me how the students cross in front of cars and defy you to do anything. They think it is cool to hold up traffic. Perhaps this is the same situation.

Glad I don't live there, because I'd be packing a super sqirter filled with ammonia and likely get myself into trouble.


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## farmerbrian (Aug 29, 2009)

Only thing this cop can be accused of is using TOO MUCH self restraint. 2:27+ is a long time to be struggling with someone in the midst of a hostile crowd. 

Yes it took him too long to cuff the girl. It put him in a dangerous situation. If that went on long enough the mob mentality would have took over in the crowd. He obviously had it in him to use more force when the other girl got in his face, so he must have had his reasons for being so gentle with the first girl.


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