# Electric Vehicle?



## bpmahagan (Mar 19, 2021)

Now that we are running the house on solar it seems to make sense to consider an electric vehicle. In our case, Walmart is about 8 miles away and Home Depot / Lowes is about 25 miles. For trips that don't require my truck to haul stuff, a car that wouldn't require gas, antifreeze or oil changes seems like it might be a good idea. Please feel free to comment on any of the results of my research below.

As much as it seems like this would be available, being able to charge the EV batteries from your home charge controller is not possible today. That means you will convert the DC from your solar panels and batteries to AC with your home inverter and the EV will then convert it back to DC to charge the car's batteries. Interestingly, at least in two cases that I've seen the electric motors that power an EV are AC so the electricity will go through an onboard inverter to power the motor(s). Now there's efficiency. There is a "DC Fast Charge" capability on many EVs but it's not something your home charge controller can handle (400 - 1000v).

What about heat and air conditioning? Where we live this is a requirement. A brief comment on one of the websites I was reading mentioned the impact of a heater on the range of an EV, something I hadn't thought about. After more research I found some tests had been done, by AAA and Car and Driver if memory serves. The impact ranged from 19 - 41% reduction in range. Have an EV with a claimed range of 100 miles on a fully charged battery, if it's cold outside and you chose to be comfortable while you drive and you may only get 59 miles before your battery is dead. Some EVs have moved away from resistance heating and are incorporating heat pumps. This, in theory, should decrease the power used and therefore get you closer to the claimed mileage. Air conditioning does not impact the miles you can drive as much as heat, but it does still reduce the distance you can travel between charges.

The Nissan Leaf, according to something I read, is using a heat pump but the improvement wasn't as much as the test driver expected. As an aside, when looking at replacement battery prices, the Leaf's batteries seem very expensive.

A radio show in DFW that covers all things automotive will help you select and buy a vehicle. I asked for their opinion on an EV and here are their reviews on the two they recommend.

2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E Premium Review | CarProUSA 
2021 VW ID.4 All-Electric SUV | CarProUSA 

And here is a link to a Car and Driver review of the Tesla Model 3. There are links within the article to other EVs they have reviewed.








2023 Tesla Model 3 Review, Pricing, and Specs


With a near-ideal blend of performance, driving range, and accessible pricing, the 2023 Tesla Model 3 is an electric vehicle that lives up to the hype.




www.caranddriver.com





That's all I have for now. The cars are expensive but with truly no fuel cost (as long as we have enough sun) perhaps it's a wise investment if the SHTF. Looking froward to comments.

Brian


----------



## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

I drive a hybrid. It uses a heatpump for heating and cooling. We recharge it from our household solar power system.

As more people install recharging stations I hope to be able to recharge everywhere that we go.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

EVs are niche vehicles at best.

We can end the argument right now for your particular case if you can get by with just your truck (ie- you don't really need a second vehicle.)--- Cost of new EV Mustang in the range of $30,000+. (Tesla 3 $42,000+)..Price of gas $3/gal and the truck gets 15mpg..You drive to Walmart 1/wk and HomeDepot 1/month and a little more- total 150 miles per month, using 10 gal of gas =$30 /m...You'd have to drive your EV with "free fuel" for 1000 months just to break even on the capital outlay, not counting the VERY expensive battery changes every 2-6 yrs.

By the time your EV has "paid for itself," your solar installation will have reached half its useful life expectancy and you'll need to be saving to shell out another $20,000+ to replace it...All done to save ~$150/m in gas & grid payments, in trade for the unreliability of solar power and an unpredictable driving range....


----------



## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

doc- said:


> EVs are niche vehicles at best.
> 
> We can end the argument right now for your particular case if you can get by with just your truck (ie- you don't really need a second vehicle.)--- Cost of new EV Mustang in the range of $30,000+. (Tesla 3 $42,000+)..Price of gas $3/gal and the truck gets 15mpg..You drive to Walmart 1/wk and HomeDepot 1/month and a little more- total 150 miles per month, using 10 gal of gas =$30 /m...You'd have to drive your EV with "free fuel" for 1000 months just to break even on the capital outlay, not counting the VERY expensive battery changes every 2-6 yrs.
> 
> By the time your EV has "paid for itself," your solar installation will have reached half its useful life expectancy and you'll need to be saving to shell out another $20,000+ to replace it...All done to save ~$150/m in gas & grid payments, in trade for the unreliability of solar power and an unpredictable driving range....


Why would anyone change the $2500 battery every 2-6 years? That is silly.

I have a neighbor whose farm has been on solar power since the 1980s. Who is feeding you lies about the life expectancy of solar?

Reliability. Dude your post is full of holes. The power grid in my area is unreliable. For the first 15 years that I lived here the power grid NEVER provided power for a single calendar month continuous. They are not capable of providing power for an entire month, they can not do it. They have not been able to do that one feat. We went to solar power because it is reliable.


----------



## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Have fun with that. I have a hybrid, and hate it. I don't want a vehicle that you need a degree in rocket science or electrical engineering to understand. I actually bought a truck just so I could get rid of my stupid hybrid. EV's by their very nature become obsolete after maybe a dozen years at the most.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Re: "Lies"-- take your choice of several million articles on useful life of solar panels-- solar panel detrioration over tie - Bing 

I'll concede a compromise on battery life-- useful life is determined by number of re-charge cycles, not a calendar....Faster charging means shorter life. Discharging them below ~50% also speeds deterioration, so the range may be 300 miles on one charge, but you're hurting the battery if you go more than 150 miles on one charge. Battery life is 100-200,000 miles, depending on how far you discharge it regularly and how fast you regularly recharge it.

My math in the other post was based on buying a second car vs not buying one....If you must have a 2nd car, then base the math on gasoline costs saved vs difference in price of EV vs conventional car--The EV equipped equivalently to an ICE getting 30mpg still costs $10-20,000 more--That'll still take 100-200,000 miles of driving to pay for itself.

But you don't have to believe me...Consult Dr. Festinger about your decision.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

bpmahagan said:


> That's all I have for now. The cars are expensive but with truly no fuel cost (as long as we have enough sun) perhaps it's a wise investment if the SHTF. Looking froward to comments.
> Brian


I believe there is a place for EVs. Not everywhere and not for everyone, ever. My only other thought is on the above quote. If things truly go south and in a very bad way, an EV will not get you far enough. An EV would be considered an asset, by everyone who sees you. 
I would have more faith in a UTV.


----------



## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

It takes a 40 lb battery to equal the power in 6 ounces of gasoline. EV's do not decrease pollution but increase it. Solar panels, batteries and other hardware have a shelf life. Too many places in the country where solar panels will not work because of snowfall etc. 2nd vehicle for backup? that means more insurance and taxes.


----------



## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Seems that the hybrid vehicle might be best for your needs. It makes use of the wasted braking energy. And even though the hybrid battery does wear out, for your limited use, it would serve you for many years.


----------



## bpmahagan (Mar 19, 2021)

A few more bits of information...

We are still finishing our house and at the same time maintaining a rent house, raising chickens and turkeys as well as expanding other areas of interest. Trust me, there are more trips to Home Depot than one a month. But, this isn't solely about economics. If the country stayed as it was today, or better yet, go back to the way it was in 2019, I wouldn't seriously consider an EV based on the economics. 

In my mind, there are some indications the country is moving in a direction that calls for considering more that just economics. The liberal agenda of those in education has taught more and more of our young people to believe that socialism and even communism is better than capitalism. Those beliefs line up well with the democratic party today. And just to make sure the democrats can stay in power they have opened the borders and offer free everything to those that come across. And of course will offer the right to vote to all residents, whether citizens or not. If they can't get that through they'll just grant citizenship to all. Guess who they'll vote for.

On the subject of economics, how are we going to pay for all these free things the democrats are giving? We'll just print more money. Making the dollars you have worth less and less. 

I don't believe all the things I've mentioned here are going to happen but I'll bet some of it does. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. I think it will be better to have useful things than cash in the bank. Or under the mattress.

GTX63, I'm not sure what you mean by an EV won't get me far enough. I'm on 40 acres surrounded by the piney woods of East Texas. I have what I need to survive here, I'm not bugging out.

Brian


----------



## bpmahagan (Mar 19, 2021)

Forgot to add this to my previous post. While I'm disappointed in the liberal bias of the BBC, there are some interesting points in this article. 









Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think


The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.



www.bbc.com


----------



## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

MichaelZ said:


> Seems that the hybrid vehicle might be best for your needs. It makes use of the wasted braking energy. And even though the hybrid battery does wear out, for your limited use, it would serve you for many years.


Yes and no. Hybrids are better in that you don't have to wait hours for it to recharge (in a SHTF scenario, can you really afford to stand around all day waiting for your car to charge?) But they are still highly specialized pieces of machinery. There are electric components and sensors EVERYWHERE and often a failure in one system leads to a chain reaction rendering your car useless. 

For instance, my hybrid car has had some air conditioner issues. Replaced the compressor, little bit better but still some problems. Unfortunately, some wit over in Japan decided that they would design the battery cooling system to use the air conditioning system (and it was 109 here yesterday) so that when the air conditioner doesnt work the battery doesn't get cooled. Hello, transmission problems! After dealing with this intermittent transmission stuff and air conditioning bs for a year, I just bought a truck. One that is older than my car, so I can understand how it works, and be able to diagnose/fix things myself. My car is 14 years old and that hybrid battery has gotta be on its way south anyway. In a SHTF scenario, where will you find or design all these specialized sensors and electronic components? Unless you are able to manufacture sensitive electronics, I will argue that a hybrid OR an EV are poor choices in SHTF scenario. In internal combustion vehicles, many of the parts can still be machined if it breaks, and fuel systems can be retrofitted to use different kinds of gas. In short, the technology is too specialized and experimental to serve us well in a bad situation.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

bpmahagan said:


> A few more bits of information...
> 
> We are still finishing our house and at the same time maintaining a rent house, raising chickens and turkeys as well as expanding other areas of interest. Trust me, there are more trips to Home Depot than one a month. But, this isn't solely about economics. If the country stayed as it was today, or better yet, go back to the way it was in 2019, I wouldn't seriously consider an EV based on the economics.
> 
> ...


I like your point of view, but--

There are three ways to deal with a SHTF situation-- If you are the biggest, strongest & best equipped, you can try to fight back, but there's gunna be more of them than you. This is probably an unsuccessful plan.

You can run away-- EV or ICE, how far can you go?..and you'll probably just run into more of them when you get there. Not a good option....BTW- Sure, you can recharge your EV with your solar cells, but where you gunna go in a SHTF situation and you're trying to escape (leaving your solar installation behind)?

That leaves ability to hide as the best survival plan. No need for a car.

The best fit niche for the EV is use as a commercial, urban delivery truck-- vehicle used only 8 hrs or so a day (plenty of time to re-charge), not many miles driven but frequent stops where idling of an ICE would be inefficient, or as a suburban/urban commuter car where a commuter is stuck in rush hour traffic for an hour or two every day often just sitting there in traffic with engine running but going nowhere.


----------



## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

My folks have two Priuses, Priusi?

Anyway, one is 11 years old. Same brakes, same batteries, no maintenence, but oil and tires. 180,000 miles.

The dealer said in the 10 or 12 years he's been selling them, they have only replaced 2 batteries.

Anecdotal, but still.


----------



## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Well, if you want to see which cars last, go to Cuba and take a look around.

Mon


----------



## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

Most of those have crappy Russian drive trains in them now.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Replacing EV Batteries: Your Costs Will Vary | PluginCars.com 
Battery capacity starts showing deterioration around 40,000 miles so your Range Anxiety gets progressively worse....Cost to replace Nissan bat pak $9-18,000; Tesla 3 $16,000. It Costs Nearly $16,000 to Replace a Tesla Model 3 Battery Pack (thedrive.com)


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> My folks have two Priuses, Priusi?
> 
> Anyway, one is 11 years old. Same brakes, same batteries, no maintenence, but oil and tires. 180,000 miles.
> 
> ...


That sounds like great longevity on the batteries, but I don't see much interest in the private sector on a Prius that age with original batteries. That sort of leaves the options as drive it until the breaker falls out or trade it in on another vehicle and roll the cost rather than eat it.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Using an electric vehicle might sound like a good idea, until you figure in all of the factors. For instance the demand for electricity to charge the batteries will increase the overall demand, so they will have to build more power plants. The demand for batteries will increase, so they will have to mine more of the ingredients to make the batteries. The feeling of "I am doing something to save the world", will be through the roof. The actual savings of natural resources, not so much. 

Anyone who wants to use less of our natural resources, should plan their shopping trips better. And use less gas or diesel, this would actually help.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I don't think California can keep the lights on for their citizen's homes now; do they think they can handle the load of every one of them owning an electric car in 10 years?


----------



## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

GTX63 said:


> That sounds like great longevity on the batteries, but I don't see much interest in the private sector on a Prius that age with original batteries. That sort of leaves the options as drive it until the breaker falls out or trade it in on another vehicle and roll the cost rather than eat it.


Depends on where you love. Around here all the ex California's want them for thier kids.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> I don't think California can keep the lights on for their citizen's homes now; do they think they can handle the load of every one of them owning an electric car in 10 years?


That's what I said in the thread from last year. 

EV's might be good for city commutes but they won't work for people living in remote areas that have to travel 50+ miles one way to get to a grocery store. And they won't work for people who drive long distances to work. Traveling by car to vacation or visit relatives in another state would also be difficult in an EV. Those would be possible in a hybrid but Joe wants everyone to use only EV's.


----------



## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Danaus29 said:


> That's what I said in the thread from last year.
> 
> EV's might be good for city commutes but they won't work for people living in remote areas that have to travel 50+ miles one way to get to a grocery store. And they won't work for people who drive long distances to work. Traveling by car to vacation or visit relatives in another state would also be difficult in an EV. Those would be possible in a hybrid but Joe wants everyone to use only EV's.


EVs are not practical in emergency situations. Gotta take your toddler to the emergency room? No problem, just gotta wait 6 hours for my car to charge while he bleeds out🙄


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Your SHTF isn't everyone else's SHTF and if the S does HTF it doubtfully will be the way anyone imagined. But, you figured out what works for you the way others did for them. Good job.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

If the S hit the fan, I won't have to worry about a commute to work.

But it must be nice to live in an area where the sun shines with no cloud cover in the winter. I think we had all of 3 sunny days in January.


----------



## bpmahagan (Mar 19, 2021)

RJ2019 said:


> EVs are not practical in emergency situations. Gotta take your toddler to the emergency room? No problem, just gotta wait 6 hours for my car to charge while he bleeds out🙄



Do you leave your current vehicle in the driveway with the fuel gauge on E and only put fuel in it when you need to go somewhere? Probably not. Why would you do that just because you changed to an EV?

I've not been a proponent of EV's in general, for many of the same reasons mentioned in this thread. I consider it now only because I have solar power and and it would be a secondary vehicle for now but has me well positioned in the event the SHTF along the lines of how Steve_S described it, oil and gas not available. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Steve_S said:


> Rather than complain about what Others are doing, why not get creative and do it yourself & bring it to market at a reasonable price. Complaining is much easier than doing it though, so the lazy rule.


You obviously have absolutely no concept of the logistics of solar power & EVs--China has total control of our access to solar panels and the rare earths required to make batteries for EVs....That makes the former control of our oil supply by Arab countries a relatively minor problem, comparatively speaking...

We wont even mention the ridiculously complicated, expensive and ecologically counterproductive infrastructure that would be needed to go with an all electric transportation system.

But it's pleasant to dream impossible dreams. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

Joey is really screwing the pooch with his big solar plans. 
He is really pushing it and the demies are eating it up , the thing that he is not talking about is we the people are going to have to pay for it . 
We can barely run our grid now. 
People don’t even have enough power in there house to charge a car how about 3 cars
Then we won’t be able to go any where . 
Joey is spewing solar money just like o nana did ? 
This is a big wet dream .


----------



## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Wellbuilt said:


> Joey is really screwing the pooch with his big solar plans.
> He is really pushing it and the demies are eating it up , the thing that he is not talking about is we the people are going to have to pay for it .
> We can barely run our grid now.
> People don’t even have enough power in there house to charge a car how about 3 cars
> ...


Single-source power production on a large scale is always a bad idea. Solar does have its place, but only when and where the sun is shining often. The much larger problem here is energy storage. I think that ignoring the resources used and environmental damage caused to produce the solar equipment is short sighted as well. So called renewable energy is a good idea on the whole, but touting it as a fix for the world's problems is stupid.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Steve_S said:


> View attachment 97454
> 
> 
> And Ford produced & did what in 2021 ?
> ...


Ford also once gave us the Edsel.


----------



## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

RJ2019 said:


> Single-source power production on a large scale is always a bad idea. Solar does have its place, but only when and where the sun is shining often. The much larger problem here is energy storage. I think that ignoring the resources used and environmental damage caused to produce the solar equipment is short sighted as well. So called renewable energy is a good idea on the whole, but touting it as a fix for the world's problems is stupid.


 I’m off grid and live on solar , I’m in a cold snowy area , and come the day after thanks giving it like some on turned off the sun and it is dark for 6 weeks . 
I start getting some power around January 18 or so , then the snow kill production . 
i don’t know what the answer is but, it’s just silly to burn fuel to make electricity to power cars.


----------



## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Wellbuilt said:


> I’m off grid and live on solar , I’m in a cold snowy area , and come the day after thanks giving it like some on turned off the sun and it is dark for 6 weeks .
> I start getting some power around January 18 or so , then the snow kill production .
> i don’t know what the answer is but, it’s just silly to burn fuel to make electricity to power cars.


I won't argue that one.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Steve_S said:


> So many are Defending Petro Powered Vehicles and the Industry (which is harming everyone, no exceptions or exclusions)....



??? Please present some actual scientific data to support that contention.

The facts would lead a thinking person to conclude the opposite..... The human condition has been greatly enhanced by the use of fossil fuels-- every thing from the mere convenience to the powering of our industry so we no longer have to live a 1760 lifestyle to improved health benefits (how many of us retire and move _north_?) to increased ag production, not only via mechanization, but also artificial fertilizer made with the energy intensive Haber-Bosch process, but also "air fertilization"-- higher atm [co2]. 

Do you realize that photosynthesis would stop if [co2] fell below 160ppm? We're rising (due manly to the out-gassing of co2 from warmer oceans, a NATURAL process). We're at 415ppm now, but the planet's average [co2] over the last several hundred million yrs is 2000ppm. Life didn't perish at hose levels. It flourished.

It's refreshing to read Wellbuilt's honesty in his recent post. Most people (not in the sun belt) who have selected solar when grid is readily available have deceived themselves and refuse to admit it. Those who use solar because they're too far off grid know the short-comings.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Steve_S said:


> 100% Offgrid SOLAR here, Far North past Algonquin Park and No Problem - sure December & January are tricky but a bit of over panelling and not a problem, panels are CHEAP. IF I have to run my genset to charge, *8 hours genset time = 4 Days of Stored Energy* *and THAT runs my house.*


So I guess a nuclear winter sort of puts you in the crapper too, lol.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

doc- said:


> ??? Please present some actual scientific data to support that contention.


A ratio of 3 insults=1 fact +/- with originality the variable.


----------



## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

Steve my panels are at 42o and the snow dosent melt off unless the temps are above 20 o 
Its cold up here so 20 o is a heat wave .
last year I had 10 weeks of snow cover and ran the Honda a couple hours a day and used 5 gallons of fuel a week . 
my solar panels are in the snow between the chimney and vent pipe btw the vent is 3’ tall 
and the pic is a typical day in the winter soooo not much sun to soak up .
The roof was covered for 10 weeks and even if the snow slid off 
I get lake effect snow over night every night so by the time the sun comes up and melts the snow it’s 130 or 200 pm and the sun is starting to go down ☹ So not much power any way 
With 4500 watts of solar I can get in from 2 to 400 watts all daylong if the panels are clear . 
I’m adding 4500 watts next year so then I could get 4 to 800 watts and that is enough to keep me charged .😁
this time of year I have gobs of power my roof is glowing and in charged by 10 or 11with a 3 hour absorb .


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

doc- said:


> EVs are niche vehicles at best.
> 
> We can end the argument right now for your particular case if you can get by with just your truck (ie- you don't really need a second vehicle.)--- Cost of new EV Mustang in the range of $30,000+. (Tesla 3 $42,000+)..Price of gas $3/gal and the truck gets 15mpg..You drive to Walmart 1/wk and HomeDepot 1/month and a little more- total 150 miles per month, using 10 gal of gas =$30 /m...You'd have to drive your EV with "free fuel" for 1000 months just to break even on the capital outlay, not counting the VERY expensive battery changes every 2-6 yrs.
> 
> By the time your EV has "paid for itself," your solar installation will have reached half its useful life expectancy and you'll need to be saving to shell out another $20,000+ to replace it...All done to save ~$150/m in gas & grid payments, in trade for the unreliability of solar power and an unpredictable driving range....





Steve_S said:


> Some funny, some weird and some dingdong comments... Ohhh boy, the work is full of entertainment isn't it, too bad the Daily Soaps went off the air, they corralled a bunch to the box.
> 
> For the Preppers & SHTF gang.
> IF SHTF do you think Oil & Gas drilling & refineries will continue to operate & provide fuel ? (have you seen MadMax?)
> ...


My electricity bill is high now and i unplug things not in use. Cant even think what charging would cost everynight. Sure cant afford to put in solar ever. Or buy a new car. Its all down to the haves and the havenots. Im guessing the governments will give the poor a dispensation . cause i sure dont think they will buy my car and solar roof. Tax rebates dont help people too poor to pay federal tax.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Forcast said:


> My electricity bill is high now and i unplug things not in use. Cant even think what charging would cost everynight. Sure cant afford to put in solar ever. Or buy a new car. Its all down to the haves and the havenots. Im guessing the governments will give the poor a dispensation . cause i sure dont think they will buy my car and solar roof. Tax rebates dont help people too poor to pay federal tax.


Put in a solar panel, plug in the car and charge it overnight for free!


----------



## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Evons hubby said:


> Put in a solar panel, plug in the car and charge it overnight for free!


If it was that easy we'd all be doing it. Where I live you have to get special permits to even put in an EV charging station....which is $$$$
You have to have a dedicated line for it or something, I guess. Don't know much about using a regular type wall plug in to charge a car, I think you can do it but that it takes FOREVER to charge the car


----------



## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

well sorry to see you go , I’ll talk to you else where 👍


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

RJ2019 said:


> If it was that easy we'd all be doing it. Where I live you have to get special permits to even put in an EV charging station....which is $$$$
> You have to have a dedicated line for it or something, I guess. Don't know much about using a regular type wall plug in to charge a car, I think you can do it but that it takes FOREVER to charge the car


Especially at night.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

How well does freezing rain slide off solar panels? In the past 5 years there have been several days at a stretch where I was actually frozen out of my car which was encased in ice, freezing rain.

I sure hope those who despise petro powered vehicles never need to use one during a medical emergency or to get their solar panels delivered to their door.

Like it or not, most of the US is not set up to run off solar, wind or hydro power or even a combination of those plus nuclear energy. 

Trees need CO2. They take in that CO2 and release oxygen.


----------



## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

Freezing rain is not so bad, the sun will go thru the ice to the black panels and melt off and slide off .
The snow in my pic is a problem , the sun can’t reach the panels and below 20o the panels don’t melt off . 
I can rake the snow off the panels but once there is ice on the glass with a couple feet of snow the sun can’t get thru so it’s really stuck on .
Last year I did not get much snow so we had power all year .


----------



## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Wellbuilt said:


> Freezing rain is not so bad, the sun will go thru the ice to the black panels and melt off and slide off .
> The snow in my pic is a problem , the sun can’t reach the panels and below 20o the panels don’t melt off .
> I can rake the snow off the panels but once there is ice on the glass with a couple feet of snow the sun can’t get thru so it’s really stuck on .
> Last year I did not get much snow so we had power all year .


I've lived off the grid on solar before. Not a bad way to do it, but I live in a considerably sunnier climate. My problem was the opposite, running generator to power air conditioner in the summer instead of wrecking the batteries trying to run it on the system. I had a relatively small system, nothing to scoff at but not capable of running large loads such an an EV charging unit. The idea is cool, but the size of the system needed I think is overlooked, as is the impact of production of the solar components themselves. 
I still hate my hybrid and i am still unconvinced an EV would perform any better. I hope to be proven wrong in time.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

When I was frozen out of my car there was no sunshine for several days. The lack of sunshine is why I was frozen out of my car for several days. This past winter we had snow, freezing rain, ice pellets and more snow. It didn't melt off a black car for a week. 

Hubby was able to use his car because it was warm enough from his commute to melt the freezing rain from the windows. I could have scraped the mess off my car but I didn't have to go anywhere so I didn't bother.


----------



## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

One simple Ground Mount.
Deep Northern Ontario Canada.
Note the 3-1/2' space from the bottom edge of panel to grade level. Allows the snow & ice to slide off without building up & creating a Dam to hold it in place. In fact if anyone watches snow ice shedding off panels, they will see the long falling tail that hangs off the end, it actually helps to "pull" the ice/snow off the panels. If that is impeded in any way (like damming up by a side roof or so), the panels will not be able to shed the stuff.

EV Charging at home can be done with a Standard 120V/15-20A Socket - That is Level ONE , the slowest, commonly used on Hybrids because their batteries are so small. Many people extend their Dryer Circuit (240V/30-50A) to an EV Charger, while some just add the 240V/##A circuit to their panel and run it to the garage or post.

Better Info on Charging options, types & costs: 
Electric Vehicle Charging: Types, Time, Cost and Savings | Union of Concerned Scientists (ucsusa.org) 










Proper Solar Design & Implementation for a Northern Climate dictates that you allocate for Snow Shedding in volume to allow the system to perform properly. There should be no obstructions or anything to create dams. Panels should be no higher than 6" from the Peak of a roof and no less that 6-8" from the Eave Edge bottom. A general unwritten rule is to allow for a minimum of 1' / 12" drop space for each level of panel to allow for enough space to prevent damming.


----------



## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

RJ , I’ve design my house in a way I don’t need A/C at all . 
I have a garage on my south side to block the sun with a solar array on the roof above . 
And there is a 10’ porch all the way around . 
My walls have r40 9” thick with r60 in the ceilings .
There is a concrete slab with radiant heat loops and 2 “ or more of Dow board . 
my place stays 65o all summer on the first floor . 
If I run 2 ceiling fans on both floors I can balance the temp @ 70o .
It was 90o yesterday and I had some windows open to warn the place up so we don’t have to sit wearing blankets 🤗

Steve S , that’s a good looking mount , but in my area we can’t do any thing like that . 
They want a structural engineer to design the mounts And those guy use Sch 40 or 80 pipe
Hooked to the center of the earth 😳 . 
We have to put a 6 foot security fence around the panels So the mount has to be above the fence . 
Im going to build a wood shed and put a array on top when the price of every thing comes down but I’ll still have to rake snow off the top☹
I have high winds I’m on a Mountain peak so What ever I do it has to be beefy


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

My house is at the top of a south facing hill. A couple spots in my yard get sun for about 6 to 8 hours a day. The surrounding trees shade most of the house and the yard, even in the winter. I have trouble siting solar path lights so they get enough sun to charge their batteries.

I have sun at the garden site, on another lot. The only place that gets good sun exposure is the garden. To get a good place to set solar panels I would have to buy another place and move.


----------



## Big_John (Dec 1, 2021)

New guy here.... just joined. 

I was faced with a very tough EV choice with our recent move. We moved to a tiny little, rural town for the wife's job. We honestly live 2 minutes from her office. Every now and then, she walks to work, but when we have a 20 degree morning, she drives. We both drive diesels and everyone knows, tiny short trips in diesels is the kiss of death... you don't do it. So I had to come up with a solution.... 

I really wanted an EV.... thought it would be perfect in our situation. Every vehicle I showed the wife, she would remark.... that is ugly and I'm not driving that thing. (My gal is a mountain girl, who loves the outdoors and likes a rugged lifestyle.) I ended up finding a spotless, awesome condition, high mileage FJ Cruiser that was driven by a lady for highway, work commuting its whole life. High mileage, but it is in phenomenal shape..... It is her short-tripper.

Still though, we will be putting a full solar system on our property that we are developing.... I just think it would be very cool to have a full EV. Honestly, I wish there was a small pickup........



.................


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

6 months later and the closest ev charging station is still 20 miles away. The closest gas station is less than 1 mile away.

KBB says it takes about 10 hours to charge ev batteries enough to travel 50 miles using a standard electrical outlet.



https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/how-long-does-take-charge-electric-car/


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

There are several infrastructure problems (time of charging, lack of re-charging stations, etc) associated with EVs, but, if EVs become more popular, those problems will be solved...BUT-- given the problems with range, charging toomes, and most importantly-- capital costs of EVs ($10-50,000 more expoensive than comparable ICE vehicles), the less you drive a car, the less sense it makes to go with the EV if fuel savings is your goal.

Eg- for Big John's wife driving 2 miles a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year, a car that gets 20mpg @ $3/gal would only spend $75 /yr on gas. If the EV costs $10Gs more, then she'd have to drive that EV for 133 yrs to break even on fuel savings....I don't know his wife, but I don't think she can do that.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

In Ohio you'll pay $100 more a year to register that ev. Hybrids cost $75 more than a gas or diesel vehicle. If you don't drive a lot, your savings just flew out the window.

ICE vehicles do develop problems if they aren't driven enough to warm the drive train every once in a while. Short trips are hard on them.


----------



## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Danaus29 said:


> In Ohio you'll pay $100 more a year to register that ev. .......


I suspect other states have similar cost and I am sure that will increase as more and more electric cars hit the road. Someone has to pay for the road and until recently electric got a free ride.


----------



## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> My folks have two Priuses, Priusi?
> 
> Anyway, one is 11 years old. Same brakes, same batteries, no maintenence, but oil and tires. 180,000 miles.
> 
> ...


I have a Prius and love it. We bought it used 4-5 years ago, 139,000 miles at the time. I paid cash, the price was low. It's now 190,000 and we've only done basic maintenance. I had a bad rust spot on one door, so rather than fix I bought another door from the junk yard for $95. I haven't had to replace the battery yet.


----------



## HappyinETx (Apr 28, 2021)

Evons hubby said:


> Put in a solar panel, plug in the car and charge it overnight for free!


If only it were that easy.


----------

