# Did you hear the last one.



## greenboy (Sep 5, 2005)

This guy is producing Hydrogen from see water technically is "burning" the see water, if this is true no more oil for us from the rich fat oil producing countries. It's not wanderful news...


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

The big proplem is that it takes more energy to seperate the water into oxygen and hydrogen than it produces.


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## greenboy (Sep 5, 2005)

do you have and web site okr book? or info where I could check this? Please let me know.


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

Here's some open discusion on the subject..

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/11/can-saltwater-be-burned-as-fuel/


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

greenboy said:


> do you have and web site okr book? or info where I could check this? Please let me know.


1st and 2nd Laws of thermodynamics

A Blackle search will bring up plenty of reading for you


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## greenboy (Sep 5, 2005)

which they are...




wy_white_wolf said:


> 1st and 2nd Laws of thermodynamics
> 
> A Blackle search will bring up plenty of reading for you


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

greenboy said:


> which they are...


deleted


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

There is also another problem..

The government isn't going to let you make your own fuel without paying taxes, which ups the cost per gallon for the maker..

They have been busting those using their own bio-diesel for fuel taxes from what I've been reading.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

videos worth watching...

stan meyers and hydrogen production

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jcy3JbGjQwo[/ame]

stan meyers project explained

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqfiAXIs3Xc&mode=related&search=[/ame]

what stan meyers project has become

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXo7CVFI5Sk[/ame]


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## greenboy (Sep 5, 2005)

yes I think you got a very good point is not like getting a cup of sea water and put them in the gas tank. But I hope is going to be easier and less pollution than now....


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

no one watched the videos?


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

MELOC said:


> no one watched the videos?


My speakers broke, so I dont watch videos anymore


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Yes, I've seen the videos many times.

If the claim they make in the second video is correct that they can produce 100 percent more power than the consume, why (in the 3rd video) do they need solar, wind, or grid power to sustain the process? They are nothing more than commercials for the company.

IMHO, Hydrogen would be a good substitute battery. We could run cars about like we do now without the limitations tha electric vehicles have. Gas stations would be replaced with hydrogen stations where each had it's own little hydrogen generator so shipping of it would not be required.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

this website states what i was alluding to...thsi technology is being suppressed.

http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/Xogen.htm

yes, the last video i linked is an add for the company, but it shows the move toward waste water treatment and how the focus if no longer on power generation alone.

as to why the new system needs power, who knows? a dumbing down of the process? of course, it is probably because the world is flat and the laws of thermodynamics cannot be broken.


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## Michael Kawalek (Jun 21, 2007)

All these posts have a common theme, and that is some magical new source of energy is going to suddenly appear that's going to solve all our problems. It doesn't matter if it's cold fusion, 100% solar panels, or burning seawater, because it's not going to happen. Americans are in denial that the extravegant SUV/MacMansion lifestyle we live can last forever! We Americans have to give up the idea of the cheap energy birthright and recognize that as oil resources become more and more scarce, costs are going to go up and we all will become more impoverished. We must learn to conserve now. Get rid of your bloated SUV, turn off the air conditioner, and learn how to cook a meal faster with less meat. It's either that or sending our sons and daughters off to die in some foreign desert because that's were the last of the oil is. It's time now to give up your useless fantasies and support alternative energy systems, reduce consumption, and learn to live with less. It's either that or not living at all!


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## greenboy (Sep 5, 2005)

Well I do believe in something I believe in America optimism. I believe in the perseverance of the american people. And I do agree we should learn to spend less and probably the SUV has to go but I don't see the future so dark. 
Because life like you describe is not paradise either. I see it all the time, the Amish with their buggies and horses, with their home made clothing, not electric power no Prada, no givenchy, no running water, of course no AC. no pets. no even flowers because that cost money. Work, work ,work. And let me tell you buddy is not fun, and their suicidal rate is sky high. Well maybe you are right, and we are going to spend the rest of our time on this earth after a big a... mule plowing the fields, and milking daisy in the barn and making the miss pregnant every year. Or maybe somebody in the future maybe my grandchild will put some sea water in his his flying saucer's tank and fly all the way to Burma( sorry Myanmar) to have breakfast with his date. What do you think?


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## Michael Kawalek (Jun 21, 2007)

I wouldn't choose breakfast in Rangoon. The service in Kuala Lumpur is much better! I have to agree that I don't want to live like the Amish, but I don't think that we will have to either. America consumes such vast resources to support a lifestyle! It goes beyond pure necessity! Think of all the trees that get cut down to build those 4000sqft houses, all the gas used to push your SUV down the road, and all the electricity used to cool that oversided house. We'll still have our cars, and electricity, and toys, but they will all be much more expensive. People will have to make sacrifices. The less thoughtfull ones will be demanding that the government "DO SOMETHING"! They will never realize that they themselves the consummers are the ones that ultimately dictate the cost of the necessities they want to buy. We could drasticly cut gas consumption if we just got rid of our SUV's and drove a small car with a stick-shift, reduce the air con, and just slow down from 80mph on the highway. It seems to me that Americans will only learn to conserve gas once it get to 10$/gallon, or electricity at 2$/kwh, or water a 1$/gallon. We'll still have cars, they'll just be small, efficient cars. We'll still have electricity, but we won't be about to afford to run an air con. We'll still have water, but we won't be able to fill a swimming pool or a vast lawn. I'm sorry, but I think that anyone that thinks the magical solutions are just around the corner is a fool, and you are in for a nasty surprise. Try reading Kunstler's book "The Long Emergency". He gives a realistic vision of America in a post-oil era. His vision is darker than what I really expect, but then again, it might be rosier! As for me, well, I'm designing our homestead with renewable energy in mind, alternative sources of water like rain catchments, and am slowly trading in our vehicles for smaller ones that can run on alternative fuels like E85 and biodiesel. My solution to rising energy, fuel, and water prices is to be self-sufficient and to produce my own. As for you, well.....


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## daytrader (May 8, 2005)

If gasoline went up 1 buck a gallon right now this second. It would not bur even a small slow down on the economy. Folks would cry how the extra cost are going to make them loose their home and such.

That would only be about 15 bucks a week extra on adverages for the normal driver. Not a real big deal. 

1 less case of beer or 3 12 packs of soda a week. Is all it would set ya back.

We should not in this country have to adjust anything we do. As long as we are paying for it. If you want to change THEN YOU CHANGE the way you consume. I will keep consuming and adjusting for my happiness.

I am a green energy nut, JUST GET FED UP with folks that think everyone needs to do something. You do somthing and quit wanting others to copy you. Let them be.

I used to like the solar. I have a grid tie system. I like wind, but the small units seem like a huge waste. The large units are very high priced and could power much more then I could ever use.

I purchased land to set up a not for profit 3 acre solar site. I didn't run with the idea as I think there will be much better panels available soon.
I have been looking at water and fuel now. I have no new ideas or anything, but feel this is the area. Ethonal from corn is not the answer.

We can have all the power we could want. Just clean water seems at times to be a source of concern in some areas. I like water desalination. I think it is worth it and can not under stand why more is not being done.

I also find Nuke power to be the cheapest cleanest way to go. No one wants it in thier back yard. So put many of these plants in areas were the folks are not al. Like say in the desert?


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## GoddessKristie (Jun 18, 2007)

Michael Kawalek said:


> All these posts have a common theme, and that is some magical new source of energy is going to suddenly appear that's going to solve all our problems. It doesn't matter if it's cold fusion, 100% solar panels, or burning seawater, because it's not going to happen. Americans are in denial that the extravegant SUV/MacMansion lifestyle we live can last forever! We Americans have to give up the idea of the cheap energy birthright and recognize that as oil resources become more and more scarce, costs are going to go up and we all will become more impoverished. We must learn to conserve now. Get rid of your bloated SUV, turn off the air conditioner, and learn how to cook a meal faster with less meat. It's either that or sending our sons and daughters off to die in some foreign desert because that's were the last of the oil is. It's time now to give up your useless fantasies and support alternative energy systems, reduce consumption, and learn to live with less. It's either that or not living at all!


I could not have said this better. As a young family it's frustrating to see our best friends driving huge vehicles building huge houses on tiny lots in crowded communities (which is 1/2 the reason they need such a big house-nowhere to go outside so they have to have room inside to roam) and complaining that they don't have any money left to put anything in them. The annual energy costs for those items alone is staggaring, but to think of all the energy that went into those items too is really sad. Meanwhile we drive decent sized cars that do their job with less fuel and have a home that is very relevant to our needs and we even had money to fill it with nice furniture! I try not to be preachy, I just hope we can live by example. I hope someday they'll notice and take a hint.


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