# Heading to Missouri



## ARich77

Hi ya'll!
My family of seven are packing up and heading to Missouri. We have a travel trailer we are staying in until we can find a piece of land (10 acres at least)with or without a home. I really like the northeast part of missouri. I want to be able to do gardening, and I have been reading anything south of the Missouri river is all rocky soil. My family wants to live the off the grid lifestyle. We are looking for a piece of land for about 20 to 30, 000. I would love to hear what anyone has to offer, homesteading advice, land forsale, whatever.  I would so much appreciate anything! We also would like to be next to a Mennonite Community. We are heading out in a few weeks. We are very excited about this new adventure! Thanks!
Amanda


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## dickenkv

We have a nice piece of property in Franklin County. About 20 acres with access to the river. Two fields and some woods. Low land in flood plane, but about 4 acres atop the hill is buildable. See the link for info.

http://www.cbgundaker.com/property/details/106884/MLS-14001657/0-Mill-Rock-Road-Gerald-MO-63037.aspx?SearchID=3359800&RowNum=1&StateID=31&RegionID=0&IsRegularPS=True&IsSold=False


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## DenMacII

Hi Amanda, 
We looked at both areas before deciding southern MO was a better option for us. We did like some of the properties in the Amish communities outside of Kirksville, but found the climate and property values better in the Ozarks. 
Yes, there are areas more rocky than others, but you can also build soil over time. From what I researched, the growing season in the Ozarks is about 30-45 days longer than in the northern part of the state. Adding a greenhouse can allow you to grow year round.
There are a lot of Amish and Mennonites in this region, too. We've met many, and purchased our wood burning cook stove from an Amish merchant. There are good homeschooling groups, and lots of agricultural and homesteading activities in the area, too.
Let me know if you would like to look around Douglas County. I'd be happy to share more with you, and help you get the lay of the land around here.
Best of luck to you!!!


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## dndweeks

My family and I are looking for Missouri property as well, however, we're looking in the Ozarks area. We currently live in Central Illinois and while the soil in northern MO is probably more like the soil here, some raised beds and a good compost pile will soon turn rocky soil into good garden soil.


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## ARich77

Thank You so much for your replies! I am going to look into what you all have said. Where are the Ozarks? Is that in Douglas County? Is it pretty rural in Douglas County?


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## ARich77

Den MacII I would love to hear more about Douglas County. So that is were you are living? I would love to hear more about the agricultural and homesteading activities they do there. We are wanting to find at least 10 acres of land. We are hoping to find a decent price. Somewhere around 1,000 an acre. Is that close to the price range in Douglas County? How do the Job prospects look? My husband is in the carpet trade, so I am sure there is not much need for that there. But he is a hard worker. So there are Mennonite Communities in Douglas County? I would love to hear all you have to say about it. Just go crazy!  Thank you so much!! 
Also do you know anything about Dent county? We found an Amish built Cabin on a piece of property out there that we are interested in. Do you know of any amish or Mennonite properties for sale with smaller homes? What ever info you have, would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
Amanda


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## MO_cows

Welcome to Missouri! I would strongly encourage you to visit the different regions of the state before you decide where to settle. My travels around the state show there are 3 basic zones. North, middle and south. South includes the Mo. part of the Ozarks.


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## Karenrbw

Welcome to Missouri. 

I wish you the best of luck finding your dream place. I think you might have a problem finding anything near $1000 an acre. We are in NE Missouri (not far from Bowling Green) and land is running over $3000 an acre. It is also difficult to find smaller, but not tiny pieces of land. There are frequent auctions for 80 acre plots of land, but not an awful lot in the 15-20 acre range.
There is an Amish community in the Bowling Green/Curryville area.


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## hickerbillywife

Your story sounds very much like ours. Family of 9. We left central IL last summer and settled in Texas county. 
It seemed like it took forever to find our place but we couldn't be happier.
I became obsessed with looking at property online and still do it when I get bored. 
Lands of America is a good place to search. You need to check the realtors actual 
website cause they can be outdated at times but it gives you a good idea of the prices of land and homes in different areas. Good Luck


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## piccololily

This is just the question I wanted to ask! We are fed up with Central WI winters, and high property cost/high taxes. I've lived here 40 years, but have been dreaming of moving to MO every few years for the last 15! 

My questions are--is it all that it seems to be? Is this just a crazy dream where the grass is always greener somewhere else? We are not new to homesteading, but are limited to what we can do on our small parcel (can't afford to buy bigger here!!!) and relatively short growing season. Talk to me about the weather! We are sitting here in March under several feet of snow and frigid temps. Last year we didn't get the gardens planted until nearly June because of cold. And we can expect frost to hard kill most everything by mid to late Sept., give or take, and cold frames do barely anything to help. 

We are a homeschooling family of 11, and really enjoy our large close-knit HS community and church family here...would it be worth leaving? Could I expect to find that here somewhere? I understand the HS laws are great in MO as well. 

Can you all give me the good, bad, and ugly about this beautiful state? We would not be going off grid, but would want property large enough for a big house and outbuildings, land to grow all our own veggies and raise all our meat, and my sons are crazy about hunting and trapping. I am experienced in improving soil, so that is not too much of a concern. 

Should I be asking these questions in the general homesteading board? Thanks!


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## grandma12703

We are transplants to Missouri. We spent a few years in Douglas county in a little cabin and loved it. We used solar electricity (3 125 watt solar panels and an 8 battery bank). It ran our lights, small television, small appliances. We had a propane refrigerator and a water catchment system. We also hauled water. We used a composting toilet and a gravity fed shower connected from our catchment that we ran through a propane instant water heater. Basically we had NO bills except replacing a battery or two after the first year. It was a great little community near Vanzant. There was a neat little store for things we had to run and pick up and then Mountain Grove was only about 15 miles away. There are several community picnic's in the summer that are some good old fashion fun for the whole family. We both worked in West Plains. (Our family is all grown so it is just he two of us) WP is a pretty nice size city with everything you would need. I do want to caution though that sometimes it takes awhile for finding a job if you aren't from the area but just keep trying it will happen.

My Dh was offered a supervisors job with the state so we had to move. We are now in central Missouri. We like it here as well but it is a lot different. We now live in a large home (more than we need) but the barn and roping arena's sold us on it. We do now have BILLS. Eventually after retirement I hope we can go back to the woods and back away from all of the Bills. The savings account sure went the right direction a lot faster. We have only been here since Oct. so we are not sure about summertime yet but are looking forward to it.

Our only regret is that we didn't do this when our children were young and let them experience it with us. They visit often and love it as well so maybe someday they will venture this way as well.


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## piccololily

Ah yes, a job...  Hubby is a master electrician with his own very small business. I imagine it would be hard to continue that at first, as he would not be known in MO. He is not entirely opposed to working for someone else, though he hasn't done that in almost 10 years. The hard part of moving would be the risk of finding a good job, but not the right property...vice/versa. That is the scary part.


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## Pony

Yup, the Ozarks are Douglas County... and bits of Wright... and Ozark... and ... 

We're on the plateau here. We love it. 

Yup, pretty rural.


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## big rockpile

Ok just wondering why do you want in Mennonite or Amish community? Unless you already belong to them. We lived in Old Order Horse and Buggy Mennonite Community for 20 years, found the only two ways we could sell any Produce or Goods was deal through the Mennonites or haul many miles out of the area. We got along with them fine and still do but this is something to take into consideration.

My Sister has had Amish move in around them and the hate them, for several valid reasons.

Just has its own set of problems moving in with them.

big rockpile


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## ARich77

Mmm... big rockpile, that is a valid reason not to live next to them. I never really thought about that.. I was just wanting to live next to them thinking that they would be great to have as neighbors. But any neighbor can be helpful!  I am new at this homesteading thing. I have experience in gardening and raising animals, but I have never had to live without power, toilet, etc. I want to live next to people who I can count on helping me figure things out if I can't  Thanks for the heads up.


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## DenMacII

Big Rockpile has a point. We are near Amish and Mennonite communities, and I have used them as resources on several occasions. 

I wouldn't buy a horse from one - cause the only reason they would sell it is if if can't or won't do the job for them anymore. We did buy our wood cook stove new from an Amish merchant - the price was good, and it was our only source of heat this past winter. Plus we cooked most of our meal on it - including baking in the oven. 

We looked at Amish properties when were first looked in Missouri three years ago. One question you need to ask is "Why are they moving?" If the farm was a real good farm someone from their community would have never let it get on the open market. One area had many Amish farms for sale - turns out many from that community were moving out of the area.


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## JLMissouri

I think Missouri is one of the greatest states and has some big advantages to anyone wanting to work towards greater self sufficiency. No place is perfect, not even Missouri. There are some bad areas, mainly around the big cities. On average the further south you go in Missouri the more hilly and rocky it becomes. The land also gets cheaper because it cannot be used for conventional agriculture. 

The cheapest land in Missouri is in the south and far north. I love southern Missouri, but I ended up in northern Missouri because I wanted good dirt. There are locations with excellent farm ground throughout the state, but on average the best farm ground is in north half of Missouri and along the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers.

The largest Amish population is probably Jamesport in North Missouri. There is a pretty heavy concentration of Amish in my area. The northern end of Missouri has the highest concentration of Amish. Mennonites are different than Amish. Most orders of Mennonites can drive cars and they often have public utilities. They can dress similar, but there is a big difference, they are 50-100 years ahead of Amish. Here is a good site explaining the differences: http://www.jamesportmissouri.org/jca_018.htm 

I don't think you will find very good land if any for $1,000 an acre. Good farm ground has started to rise in price and even hilly ground has increased in price. The smaller the piece of property the more you will usually pay per acre. It is easier and cheaper in the long run to buy good ground than to try and improve poor ground.

Good luck on your move and welcome to Missouri


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## Pony

Speaking of rocks and dirt, we have had great results in using raised beds. In fact, most folks around here have gone that route - though there are some who have built fantastic soil right on the ground.

There's a fella over near Seymour who delivers amended and tested topsoil for a very reasonable price. The dirt is from a lake bed. The lake was one of those that sort of made itself when the railroad went through more than 100 years ago, and the railroad used it for refilling the water tanks on their steam engines. 

Back in the 70's-80's, the railroad drained the lake due to liability issues, sold the land, and this fella has been "mining" the fantastic soil since the late 80's. Wonderful, rich, chem-free soil, with NO ROCKS. Man, I'm lovin' this stuff as we build new beds. 

Missouri is a grand state. With raised beds and built up soil, the MOzarks are even better, IMO.


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## JohnP

We lived in S Central MO in Douglas County in fact, for two years and I never could make any money. We finally headed North a bit and no problem. We're in Crawford now which is right above Dent. As one man from Douglas County told me, If you're not 5th or 6th generation, you're an outsider. I would agree with bouncing around a bit. If you're used to being able to get anything you need within an hour, then it might get old living way out there. 
There's no 911 service in lots of places including most if not all of Douglas Co. Even here, we had a neighbor crash his dirt bike on the gravel road. Took over half an hour for the ambulance, half an hour on site and only one person seemed to have a clue, rest were kids with blank looks, then half an hour for it to get back to catch the air lift to St Louis which is a half hour flight so basically two hours to get any real treatment. He didn't make it.

One area I spent some time in and liked was up towards Lebanon. More of a rolling topography. Anywhere near I-44 is going to be handier to get things that might not be available in your particular small town. 

I wasn't trying to be down on Douglas Co. I still like it there and if we were retiring we would have stayed but there just ain't much going on unless you're a cattle farmer or trying to hide from someone. I can stick a spade in the 12" of silt here. It was pick axe only down south.


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## grandma12703

We lived in Douglas county for 2 years. It took a few months to find work but when we did it was good work with a good wage for both of us. I loved the secludedness of our cabin so I guess it is whatever you are looking for. I guess after being in Wyoming for several years 20-30 minutes to town seems like nothing.  In Wyo. we were living on a place that the state provides for its state workers like maintenance, highway patrol, etc. in the red desert. It was an hour to town and nothing in between. You definately learned to be sufficient especially in the winter. Don't get me wrong we thought it was beautiful. 

We moved with my DH job and now live in central MO which we also love but it is different for sure. 

MO is just a good state with good people and a lot to do especially if you like good old type country things.


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## hickerbillywife

Pony would you be able to give more info on the guy in Seymour with the topsoil
I am in desperate need of some as my strawberries have arrived and I need to 
get them in the ground. We are in Texas county so it might be too far but 
I'd like to get an estimate for some Thanks


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## Pony

hickerbillywife said:


> Pony would you be able to give more info on the guy in Seymour with the topsoil
> I am in desperate need of some as my strawberries have arrived and I need to
> get them in the ground. We are in Texas county so it might be too far but
> I'd like to get an estimate for some Thanks


His name is Randy Jenkins, and the business is Cedar Gap Top Soil. 

Here's his FB page:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cedar-Gap-Topsoil-LLC/163974560295489

And if you're not on FB, his number is (417) 935-2877

It cost us about $190 for the soil and 25 mile delivery. He's a good guy. I saw a complaint against him on Rip-Off Report, but it was obviously a miscommunication, not a rip-off. 

ANYhow. That's my story. I'm stickin' to it.


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## Fetherhd

http://homesteadcrossinginc.com/ they have some nice pieces of land here.


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## JohnP

Fetherhd said:


> http://homesteadcrossinginc.com/ they have some nice pieces of land here.


aka star lake investments, aka pine river properties and probably a few others. Sells mostly on ebay. Umm. He's a very personable guy.


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## tarbe

Pony said:


> His name is Randy Jenkins, and the business is Cedar Gap Top Soil.
> 
> Here's his FB page:
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cedar-Gap-Topsoil-LLC/163974560295489
> 
> And if you're not on FB, his number is (417) 935-2877
> 
> It cost us about $190 for the soil and 25 mile delivery. He's a good guy. I saw a complaint against him on Rip-Off Report, but it was obviously a miscommunication, not a rip-off.
> 
> ANYhow. That's my story. I'm stickin' to it.


I drove past them last week on the way to Romance. Was wondering if it made sense to stop in and ask them about delivery down in Ozark County.

Thanks for the tip!


Tim


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## hickerbillywife

He brought me a load of topsoil last night. Cost a little more than it did you, about a hundred dollars more, but he said it was 60 miles each way. Anyway got my strawberries in the ground today. So I am happy. 
Thanks again for sharing Pony


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## obleo+6

We love living in the Ozarks...we were in Hartville for a few years and then moved down in to Ozark Co...nestled in two borders of Mark Twain Nat'l forest. Yeppers...rockier than all get out but my property taxes were only 179.00 for 27 acres...I can afford the dirt to be hauled in for my raised beds with taxes like that! Takes a bit to get to shopping but we make our lists and go every two weeks, everything is between 30 mins and a hour away...but no biggie.

We got neighbors and know them but we can't see 'em...makes us all happy...they know we're there for them and visa versa, Really great people even if you don't know them. If you need something, ask someone at the bank, or the groc store or any business and they'll be more than happy to help or know someone who will.

Lived in many different states in my long life and loved that we found this place and settled here for the remainder of our years.


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## hickerbillywife

That's a great point about the property taxes here in Missouri. We moved from IL so we are very pleased with the low taxes here. In IL we were paying in one month what we pay for the entire year here. I think I can justify getting another load of topsoil now that I think of it that way.


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## tarbe

hickerbillywife said:


> He brought me a load of topsoil last night. Cost a little more than it did you, about a hundred dollars more, but he said it was 60 miles each way. Anyway got my strawberries in the ground today. So I am happy.
> Thanks again for sharing Pony


Sweeeet.

Our place is 50 miles from Seymour, so now I know about how much a load will cost.

How many yards does he put in a load, any idea?

thanks,

Tim


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## hickerbillywife

I believe he told my husband it was 11 yards. He said 4ft wide by 100 ft long and 8 inches deep.


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## ARich77

Hello everyone! I am here to give an update on our adventure! We left a week an a half ago. We have visited Macon county. I was so grateful to the sweet couple who let us park our trialer on their property and made us yummy food.  we stayed in macon for only a few days. After driving around we new that wasn't the place for us. It was beautiful! The people there are so sweet! We went and looked at an amish home forsale and the owner was so He took out his big wagon and horses and threw some hay on the wagon and gave my children and I a 45 min wagon ride around his property. It was an amazing piece of property!

I was glad we had gone.to macon county first because it gave me something to compare Douglas county to. Douglas county is a heaven on earth to me! I know it is home for us. The people here have been wonderful! I think that has been my most favorite part is making new friends. I am amazed at the generousity of so many people. My husband has already received a few days of work from a man. This same man has introduced him to men hiring. I think that with my husbands determination and hard work he wont have a problem finding a job here. We have our eyes on a piece of property here already, but it has no water source other then a seasonal creek. The home on it also is not livable, but we are willing to live in our trailer while we fix it up. 

I will admit this has been a hard week an half. My emotions have been all over the place  but I am persevering! I am determined to make this work! This still is one of the hardest things I have ever done. I have left all my family and husbands family Iin Utah and I am living in a 150 sq ft trailer with 5 children. I know it sounds totally crazy and at times I feel like I am going to go crazy. But am so gratful for the patience i am learning. 

I will try and keep you updated on what happens next. You will have to excuse and mistakes in this post as I am typing this all up on my phone. Thank you all for your replies and advice.


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## Cyngbaeld

Make yourself a large pond where the creek runs. You can use it for irrigating (not that you'll need to do much) and for livestock. Get some cisterns set up to catch rain water. Get a Sawyer gravity water filter. You shouldn't need any other water source. A simple cistern can be made with hay/straw bales and a large tarp to hold the run off from your house roof. I looked into a well on my new property and it was going to cost as much as a 1200sf barn and I can catch a lot of water off that barn roof so that is the route I'm going.


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## fritz

hello there.. in southcentral/southwest mo here, I would highly recommend the area.


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## fritz

Douglas/Ozark counties are more rugged, less interference by the overreach of gov. While gardening is a challenge, you can build up soil or do what I am doing and converting alot to SFG raised beds they did very well last year.


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## fritz

Pony said:


> Speaking of rocks and dirt, we have had great results in using raised beds. In fact, most folks around here have gone that route - though there are some who have built fantastic soil right on the ground.
> 
> There's a fella over near Seymour who delivers amended and tested topsoil for a very reasonable price. The dirt is from a lake bed. The lake was one of those that sort of made itself when the railroad went through more than 100 years ago, and the railroad used it for refilling the water tanks on their steam engines.
> 
> Back in the 70's-80's, the railroad drained the lake due to liability issues, sold the land, and this fella has been "mining" the fantastic soil since the late 80's. Wonderful, rich, chem-free soil, with NO ROCKS. Man, I'm lovin' this stuff as we build new beds.
> 
> Missouri is a grand state. With raised beds and built up soil, the MOzarks are even better, IMO.



Randy is a great guy, you can get a pickup truck load as well, like I do. but can't say enough about the quality of his garden soil (you have to tell him this is what you want he has two types). I need to get some more this year, we are only about 15 miles from him. 

I started investing in SFG raised beds last year, with alot of micro irrigation, we use as much rainwater as possible for animals and garden use. Can not say enough about how much better it is. I would like to play with some of the other methods, but get the book Square Foot Gardening, it works well if you follow the method.


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## KentuckyDreamer

This thread has me ready to take a road trip to Missouri. I have been spending HOURS upon hours on the internet searching for a place in Ohio or Kentucky. 

We need a place with good soil ( or close to the resources discussed here ) with limited restrictions, ability to have two homes on the place, and great water supply.

We would love a mixture of wooded and open space. Goal is to have a barn, chicken coop, pasture.

My thoughts on an Amish farm is the soil is up and ready for planting. I would love to know the major down side to living next to the Amish. In Ohio we have issues with puppy mills.


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## davidj

We moved to southwestern Missouri from east central Illinois in 2008. We love it here and won't leave short of God putting a big sign in the sky telling us to do so. However, it's not heaven on earth. While there's patches of decent soil, you will find it's almost entirely filled with rocks. Even if you don't see them on top, when you stick a shovel or a t-post in the ground you'll hit them. You'll also find a lot of red clay in areas too. The soil is not nearly as sandy or fertile as in Illinois, but with some animals around, you can amend it. Then there's the ever-present ticks in the spring and summer. Seed ticks are so small that you can hardly see them. Right now I'm taking lunch break from cutting a path through the woods to put up fence for a couple head of cattle, so the hard work aspect of life here is very present on my mind. 

Homeschooling is very easy with a lot of resources from orchestra, dances (Contra style), coops, etc. Restrictions are pretty much non-existent outside the cities. 

Like was said though, there's no place that's perfect. We ended up in northern Polk County, north of Springfield. We've still got our first place in Dallas County for sale. It's 5br 3ba on 12 acres, mostly fenced with a pond and a few sheds. Taxes are around $350/yr. Asking $125,000.


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## big rockpile

David your place in Dallas County must be South County because our Taxes weren't even $100 a year.

My Mom had a place in Northern Green County I was surprised she had dirt compared to where we lived in Dallas County.

Oh being Amish Farm don't really mean good soil and yes they raise Dogs for money in Missouri. They are not Pets.

big rockpile


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## Pony

KentuckyDreamer said:


> This thread has me ready to take a road trip to Missouri. I have been spending HOURS upon hours on the internet searching for a place in Ohio or Kentucky.
> 
> We need a place with good soil ( or close to the resources discussed here ) with limited restrictions, ability to have two homes on the place, and great water supply.
> 
> We would love a mixture of wooded and open space. Goal is to have a barn, chicken coop, pasture.
> 
> My thoughts on an Amish farm is the soil is up and ready for planting. I would love to know the major down side to living next to the Amish. In Ohio we have issues with puppy mills.


We're having our Spring Fling on May 31. You're welcome to come camp if you'd like. We'll be doing some canning (going to drag out the wood cookstove) and some other demonstrations (scything, and who knows what else?) 

Our soil is in the process of being built up. Like Fritz said, it's rocky here. BUT the soil has nutrients. Lots of folks are grass farmers and raise beeves. 

RE: Amish, well... people are people. Some of them use chemicals in their soil, some not so much. Lots of them shop at Walmart, and they have the same foibles as the rest of us. 

The romantic mystique surrounding them is mostly just hype and marketing. They are clannish, keep to themselves, will gladly take your money, but do not necessarily deliver higher quality than any Englishers.


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## Pony

Oh, and as Nick just pointed out, they talk behind the English's backs all the time. I speak a little German so I can make out some of what they're saying.

We've been burned by their "quality" work, and know more about some really crummy stuff they have done to each other and how they've abused their animals than we really care to know.


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## fritz

fritz said:


> Randy is a great guy, you can get a pickup truck load as well, like I do. but can't say enough about the quality of his garden soil (you have to tell him this is what you want he has two types). I need to get some more this year, we are only about 15 miles from him.
> 
> I started investing in SFG raised beds last year, with alot of micro irrigation, we use as much rainwater as possible for animals and garden use. Can not say enough about how much better it is. I would like to play with some of the other methods, but get the book Square Foot Gardening, it works well if you follow the method.


Yes he is, we are not very far from him, after the heavy rain night before last, will have to wait a little bit to get some more soil but I need to.

I have Mel's 2nd book and yes it works. A few things that I have found, I found chicken manure at MFA over in Ozark by the bag and I raise rabbits so new mixes will have both those types of manure as additional compost in the compost mix. Also, leaf mold when I can get enough of it raked up from in the timber. Then I do add additional rice hulls, tested this last year with some having rice hulls and some not and really like the one with the best. 

one thing since all we have is a slope, no flat ground to speak of here, is instead of making the boxes 2 x 6 deep all around, on the low side and sides I am now using 2x8 and 2x6 on the back, to get a more even level. and switching more to 2x8 depth, but that is just a preference.

That book and the book Carrots Love Tomatoes are my invaluable references, I try to do as much companion planting as possible. planting the white icicle radishes next to zucchini, squash did seem to help combat bugs, except those darn stink bugs... this year so far it seems flea beetles thrived the winter ... but tell you what so far everythign planted is doing outstanding, this is the first year I've had really nice spinach, mustard and kale growing... !


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## fritz

Pony said:


> We're having our Spring Fling on May 31. You're welcome to come camp if you'd like. We'll be doing some canning (going to drag out the wood cookstove) and some other demonstrations (scything, and who knows what else?)
> 
> Our soil is in the process of being built up. Like Fritz said, it's rocky here. BUT the soil has nutrients. Lots of folks are grass farmers and raise beeves.
> 
> RE: Amish, well... people are people. Some of them use chemicals in their soil, some not so much. Lots of them shop at Walmart, and they have the same foibles as the rest of us.
> 
> The romantic mystique surrounding them is mostly just hype and marketing. They are clannish, keep to themselves, will gladly take your money, but do not necessarily deliver higher quality than any Englishers.


Do you know of anybody that has bees??? I'm wanting to restart my hives... 

we use a menonite garage up in seymour that I cannot say enough good things about, also Byler supply is a great place to shop (garage is next door) as is Shetlers and Missouri Wind and Solar.

Looking for an outstanding seed supplier, check out Morgan County Seeds up in Barnett. we switched our garden seed partially last year over to them and have been thrilled with the seed accuracy and quality. this year almost everything came from them, and a few from Johnnys.


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## fritz

Pony said:


> We're having our Spring Fling on May 31. You're welcome to come camp if you'd like. We'll be doing some canning (going to drag out the wood cookstove) and some other demonstrations (scything, and who knows what else?)
> 
> Our soil is in the process of being built up. Like Fritz said, it's rocky here. BUT the soil has nutrients. Lots of folks are grass farmers and raise beeves.
> 
> RE: Amish, well... people are people. Some of them use chemicals in their soil, some not so much. Lots of them shop at Walmart, and they have the same foibles as the rest of us.
> 
> The romantic mystique surrounding them is mostly just hype and marketing. They are clannish, keep to themselves, will gladly take your money, but do not necessarily deliver higher quality than any Englishers.


I grew up around amish up in illinazi all my life. 

The one thing we were told about Amish & Menonites around here is you can pretty much trust the menonites but you can and will be taken by many of the amish, not all but I have followed this advice from a local in that community.


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## Pony

fritz said:


> Do you know of anybody that has bees??? I'm wanting to restart my hives...


If you go to the Ace Hardware in Mtn Grove, talk to Anton, the manager. He will be able to hook you up with bees.


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## o&itw

Cyngbaeld said:


> Make yourself a large pond where the creek runs. You can use it for irrigating (not that you'll need to do much) and for livestock. Get some cisterns set up to catch rain water. Get a Sawyer gravity water filter. You shouldn't need any other water source. A simple cistern can be made with hay/straw bales and a large tarp to hold the run off from your house roof. I looked into a well on my new property and it was going to cost as much as a 1200sf barn and I can catch a lot of water off that barn roof so that is the route I'm going.


 
It is illegal in almost everyplace to dam a running creek. Just sayin' 

I grew up with a cistern... works OK in the winter and the spring, but not so well in the summer. Southern Missouri had decent rainfall, but it tends to be dry in most of Missouri in the late summer months. Also, digging a cistern in the rocky/gravely soils of southern Missouri wouldn't be easy and might be hard to seal unless one bricked it. It is not like other places that have 10 or 20 feet of clay soils that will hold water. In some places ponds will not hold water unless clay is hauled in to line them.

I love Missouri (came from Illinois and have lived in Michigan, Missippi, Montana, and Washington) but things one gets used to in other areas are not always the same here and one has to adapt. The underlying rock in most of southern Missouri is limestone, and it does not erode to produce a soil. When the rock particles become fine enough for the sand and silt needed, they simply disolve. There, however, are small pockets of good soil here and there, usually in draws or creek bottoms. The first thing you want to do when checking out a property is to take a shovel and try to dig a spadefull where you might want to garden. It may be great, but in most places it is gravel. 

Don't be decieved by what a place looks like in spring or early summer. The "gravel" is quite fertile, and the fields will look great then, however, by the end of August in many places everything is brown. The problem is not so much fertility or rainfall, but it is mostly due to the soils being so well drained that they dry out in a couple of weeks. 

In some places you will find "red gritty clay" which is like rubber when wet and concrete when dry. This is actually not so bad for a garden. when ammended with lots of organic material it will loosen up and be fine. Any kind of organic material is OK. There are lots of small sawmills in the area producing pallets, ties, staves, etc. While sawdust isn't the best amendment, if one mixes nitrogen with it, it will do. Many of these sawmills peel the bark from these trees before they saw them. Before it became popular for mulch, it could be hauled away for free, It is a terrific soil amendment, though it takes a couple of years to really rot down well. I have an asparagus bed that was made from 10" to 12" of ground bark with 4 or 5 inches of soil on top of it. I let it set for about 2 years and then planted asparagus, and it has worked exceptionaly.


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## simi-steading

My head is spinning here thinking about what the OP has said... 

Just some of my rambling thoughts... Not sure if the OP has moved yet? or left for MO?

My first thought is, even if you find land for sale, it could be an easy three months before all the paperwork is done, the closing made, and being able to take possession. 

Next thought is.. what about jobs? If you don't have any lined up, are you sure the area you are looking at has jobs available in the field you need to look in?

Do you have enough money saved up that you can get by until you do find jobs? 

As far as living near Mennonites, remember, you aren't one of them.. you are an outsider.. While they can be friendly, it's not in their best interest to take time to teach you what you don't know.. 

Have you looked at land prices where you plan to buy? 20-30K usually doesn't buy much.

If you buy undeveloped land, do you have the tools you will need? Or will you have to spend a ton of money to acquire them?

Do you have the money to drill a well and put in a septic? You may not be able to build on land without water or a septic, depending on regulations in the county you are looking at... 

I can keep on thinking of a whole lot of stuff, ,and only because me and my wife are about to quit our jobs to move to our farm we bought the end of 2012... 

Just for fast info, we bought our place, and it had a well and septic, and a house, but the house was in bad repair.. We've spent the last year taking trips every chance we got to work on the house and clean up the land.. So far, we have spent an easy 3 times the amount we had originally planned on... 
Materials aren't getting any cheaper... FAR from it.. .

We've spent a ton of money on tools I had a lot of tools, but have had to buy a lot more, especially things like chain saws and trimmers and mowers... We had some, but not enough.. 

We've dropped a lot of money into getting the water as clean as possible out of the well.. Be sure to know what the water is like in your area. What will it cost to treat it if need be?

I know you say you want to live off the grid, but I don't know very many people that could make that jump... I know people with a whole lot of skills, but to make that jump is more than a person ever imagines.. 

Shows like Little House on the Prairie sure make the off grid lifestyle look pretty romantic, but the reality of it is anything but.. 

I'm not trying to talk the OP out of a dream.. .but I sure would hate to see it become a nightmare... I'd look long and hard into local ordinances before you think you can just buy land and start living there off grid.. Many places don't like you to be self reliant, and have tons of rules to make sure you aren't..


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## ceresone

I wondered the same thing--till Pony said who it was. My SIL hauled dirt for my raised beds from him. Excellent!


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## Blackwolfe

o&itw said:


> It is illegal in almost everyplace to dam a running creek. Just sayin'
> 
> I grew up with a cistern... works OK in the winter and the spring, but not so well in the summer. Southern Missouri had decent rainfall, but it tends to be dry in most of Missouri in the late summer months. Also, digging a cistern in the rocky/gravely soils of southern Missouri wouldn't be easy and might be hard to seal unless one bricked it. It is not like other places that have 10 or 20 feet of clay soils that will hold water. In some places ponds will not hold water unless clay is hauled in to line them.
> 
> I love Missouri (came from Illinois and have lived in Michigan, Missippi, Montana, and Washington) but things one gets used to in other areas are not always the same here and one has to adapt. The underlying rock in most of southern Missouri is limestone, and it does not erode to produce a soil. When the rock particles become fine enough for the sand and silt needed, they simply disolve. There, however, are small pockets of good soil here and there, usually in draws or creek bottoms. The first thing you want to do when checking out a property is to take a shovel and try to dig a spadefull where you might want to garden. It may be great, but in most places it is gravel.
> 
> Don't be decieved by what a place looks like in spring or early summer. The "gravel" is quite fertile, and the fields will look great then, however, by the end of August in many places everything is brown. The problem is not so much fertility or rainfall, but it is mostly due to the soils being so well drained that they dry out in a couple of weeks.
> 
> In some places you will find "red gritty clay" which is like rubber when wet and concrete when dry. This is actually not so bad for a garden. when ammended with lots of organic material it will loosen up and be fine. Any kind of organic material is OK. There are lots of small sawmills in the area producing pallets, ties, staves, etc. While sawdust isn't the best amendment, if one mixes nitrogen with it, it will do. Many of these sawmills peel the bark from these trees before they saw them. Before it became popular for mulch, it could be hauled away for free, It is a terrific soil amendment, though it takes a couple of years to really rot down well. I have an asparagus bed that was made from 10" to 12" of ground bark with 4 or 5 inches of soil on top of it. I let it set for about 2 years and then planted asparagus, and it has worked exceptionaly.


If it is a seasonal creek then more than likely that it does not have much flow, and if the creek head originates on your property, and no one downstream relies on the occasional flow, then you can create a pond with it.

And if the creak does not originate on the property, and the size of the pond does not back up water onto someone else's property, and someone downstream does need a continues flow while it is in season, then you can still dam it up to create a pond, you can do this by 2 ways, 25-30 yds. above where you want the pond to start dig a diversionary by pass trench down to below where you will build the dam, then only divert a 1/4 of the low into your pond and 3/4 through the trench then, when you build the dam make sure you put in a spillway, so once the pond is full you can re-divert the full flow back into its channel then those downstream should never notice a difference. 2nd way is a reverse of the first way, build your pond to the side of the creek channel, dig a trench big enough to hold all the flow of the creek but only divert 1/4 flow into the pond until full then fill in the old creek bed and make sure the overflow from the dam is directed back to the channel downstream from the pond

As for it being a seasonal creek, does that mean it only flows during 1 specific season, or does it flow when ever it rains hard and/or snow melts, before you build the dam do some research and if the creek has a flow for half to 3/4 of the year then you can incorporate a MicroHydro system to the dam and generate free power for the place, combine that with a soar system and it could be enough for you to be completely Off Grid.

One more note, if you will be raising livestock or using non-organic pest, weed, and fertilizers on the place make sure you know what and who is downstream as you may have to build a settling pond or marsh to keep the chemicals from flowing downstream.


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## badlander

We have been in northeastern MO for 5 years and love it.

Land prices under 2000 an acre, friendly people in a town that is half the size of the town we moved from in IL. (Word of caution. People in MO really worry about Illinoisans moving across the river and bringing their 'way of thinking' with them so leave it behind you and be prepared to adopt a 'southern mindset' when you move here)

Another word of advice about the Amish/Mennonites. You will not be one of them. They will treat you 'neighborly' but they do not embrace you as equals. You will be English. They will be in heaven, you won't so many believe that they can treat you however they want and not encounter you in the next life. Don't get me wrong. They are hard working, God fearing folks but their life style is distinctively different from a non-Amish way of life.

Otherwise, welcome to Missouri! I hope you fall in love with the state and the people here the way we have.


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## ClubMike

I moved to Missouri several years ago. I love it here, I started out renting a place as I did not want to buy too quick. I finally found a cheap place in the country sitting on 2 acres. (Lawrence county) Sure it needed fixing up, but the price was right. Go live your dream, if it does not work out at least you tried. never say never, lots of people take chances and it works fine. Of course you could fall flat on your face, who cares, at least you tried.

Go for it, I also say to all the people thinking about coming to Missouri to live to, come on down 

For all you city folk, please read " Starting a new life in rural America" by Ragnar Benson. I highly recommend this book for newbys, it helped me.

I used to be a city folk, (Chicago) I do not miss the traffic at all. Taxes are cheap here, I pay about 280 bucks a year. I am within 20 miles of Springfield just in case I need to go to the "big city" for shopping.

It really pays off to get along with your neighbors down here, at least it has for me. It had a rocky start, then I read the book. Everything is just fine now.


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## Pony

ClubMike said:


> I used to be a city folk, (Chicago) I do not miss the traffic at all. Taxes are cheap here, I pay about 280 bucks a year. I am within 20 miles of Springfield just in case I need to go to the "big city" for shopping.


Hey! I used to be a Chicago City Person, too! 

Are you a Cubs or Sox fan? (that's my way of asking if you were on the North or South Side.)


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## Fetherhd

We picked up a piece of land in southern Missouri and YES...we do have rocks. BUT gardening can be done in raised beds(the people above us on the hill have a GORGEOUS raised garden and a lovely orchard... and being in the ozarks means we are a little cooler in the hot months. Here is the fellow we purchased our 14 acres from on land contract.... http://homesteadcrossinginc.com/listings/web-category/missouri/
Just in case you might want to check what he has out. We LOVE our piece of gnarly mountain land.


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## Fetherhd

ClubMike said:


> I moved to Missouri several years ago. I love it here, I started out renting a place as I did not want to buy too quick. I finally found a cheap place in the country sitting on 2 acres. (Lawrence county) Sure it needed fixing up, but the price was right. Go live your dream, if it does not work out at least you tried. never say never, lots of people take chances and it works fine. Of course you could fall flat on your face, who cares, at least you tried.
> 
> Go for it, I also say to all the people thinking about coming to Missouri to live to, come on down
> 
> For all you city folk, please read " Starting a new life in rural America" by Ragnar Benson. I highly recommend this book for newbys, it helped me.
> 
> I used to be a city folk, (Chicago) I do not miss the traffic at all. Taxes are cheap here, I pay about 280 bucks a year. I am within 20 miles of Springfield just in case I need to go to the "big city" for shopping.
> 
> It really pays off to get along with your neighbors down here, at least it has for me. It had a rocky start, then I read the book. Everything is just fine now.


HEY ClubMike...we are just an hour south of Springfield near Willow Springs...:happy:...we is practically NEIGHBORS!!


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## Fetherhd

Pony said:


> If you go to the Ace Hardware in Mtn Grove, talk to Anton, the manager. He will be able to hook you up with bees.


HEY Pony...we are located near Willow Springs...Mountain Grove is a short hop from there! It be a smmaalll world!!


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## Pony

Fetherhd said:


> HEY Pony...we are located near Willow Springs...Mountain Grove is a short hop from there! It be a smmaalll world!!


We're not in MG. 

We're in Macomb. 

I know where WS is, though. Nehimama is close to there, and I had some patients there when I worked hospice.

Hey! If you're so close, why didn't you come to the Spring Fling? Hmph! :catfight:

:grin:


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## Fetherhd

hickerbillywife said:


> Your story sounds very much like ours. Family of 9. We left central IL last summer and settled in Texas county.
> It seemed like it took forever to find our place but we couldn't be happier.
> I became obsessed with looking at property online and still do it when I get bored.
> Lands of America is a good place to search. You need to check the realtors actual
> website cause they can be outdated at times but it gives you a good idea of the prices of land and homes in different areas. Good Luck


HEY there....WE are in Texas County!!


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## Fetherhd

Pony said:


> We're not in MG.
> 
> We're in Macomb.
> 
> I know where WS is, though. Nehimama is close to there, and I had some patients there when I worked hospice.
> 
> Hey! If you're so close, why didn't you come to the Spring Fling? Hmph! :catfight:
> 
> :grin:


I WOULD have...but we left our ridge on the 27th to come to godforsaken WYOMING...to pack out our rental house and shut it down. Wont be home til about the eleventh of June....WILL PLAN ON IT next spring if I is invited! :gaptooth:


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## Pony

Fetherhd said:


> I WOULD have...but we left our ridge on the 27th to come to godforsaken WYOMING...to pack out our rental house and shut it down. Wont be home til about the eleventh of June....WILL PLAN ON IT next spring if I is invited! :gaptooth:


You're welcome any time - don't have to wait for a gathering. We are hoping to do one this Fall, but either way, you contact us if you're going to be in our neck of the woods!


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## Fetherhd

Pony said:


> You're welcome any time - don't have to wait for a gathering. We are hoping to do one this Fall, but either way, you contact us if you're going to be in our neck of the woods!


I will certainly do that as soon as we get home...would love to meet you and see your little bit of paradise!!
:thumb:


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## ClubMike

Fetherhd said:


> HEY ClubMike...we are just an hour south of Springfield near Willow Springs...:happy:...we is practically NEIGHBORS!!



Make sure you check out the big piney river, it is a great slow moving river, I used to own land in Texas county. Out in the woods outside of Licking. I miss the old place.


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## big rockpile

Fetherhd said:


> HEY ClubMike...we are just an hour south of Springfield near Willow Springs...:happy:...we is practically NEIGHBORS!!



 Last I looked Willow Springs is East of Springfield? Lawrence County is West of Springfield.



big rockpile


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