# Does anyone have experience with an outdoor forced air furnace?



## FyredUp

I have been tossing around a couple of ideas that involve either an out door forced air furnace like this: http://www.charmaster.com/embers.html or this indoor fireplace/furnace to help heat my home.

Let me give you a little history. I looked into the outdoor boiler and in my mind the cost to buy one, and install it, is simply too much to bring me back a payback over a reasonable amount of time. So much so that it would be more logical to simply install a high efficiency propane furnace. While that is a viable solution to my heating in both cost and efficiency it does not offer a fuel source that I can "manufacture" myself like wood.

This led me to look at an outdoor forced air furnace. This one from Charmaster operates very similar to many boilers in that the draft controls the fire and closes down when heat isn't called for and opens up to increase the fire during calls for heat. Payback for me would be just over 3 years.

The fireplace based furnace seems to me to be perhaps even a better choice because even when there is no power I could use it to heat at least part of my home to keep us safe and warm. Pay back for this one would be similar, at current fuel prices about 3 1/2 years.

So I guess what I am looking for is anyone with personal experience with an outdoor forced air furnace and then especially with the Charmaster brand out door furnaces and fireplace/furnace.

Thanks for your help.


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## Mickie3

Just looked at their site and only thing I can think of that would be needed is that you would need to really insulate the ductwork that runs to and from the furnace. Also, there is no efficiency listed, as the Feds don't regulate it for outdoor heaters, so take the "I got 27 times as much heat with the same wood", etc. with a boatload of salt.


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## free-2-b-me

This what we have http://www.outsidewoodheater.com/id1.html
Certainly not as efficient as what you are considering . It was what we could afford at the time . This unit does use way more wood than I expected . The model you are considering is very much like the add on we used to have in our old house . They are much more efficient . 
We live in a mobile home now and the lil house heater keeps us nice and toasty . 
With all the new regulations coming with outside wood stoves if we were to replace what we have I will take our wood burning back inside .


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## FyredUp

I looked at that and I just don't see it being able to heat my 2 story house. 

My house is newly sided with 1/2 inch polystyrene insulation behind it, new high energy efficiency windows, and new energy efficient doors. I have decreased my fuel oil use by roughly half by making those changes.

I like the idea of an outdoor furnace for a reduction in smoke and mess in the house. As weel as th fact that my youngest son has asthma.

i have stated that for me, at my age the payback time for an outdoor boiler is just too long to make it practical. The cost of the CharMaster outdoor forced air furnce gives me a little over 3 years for payback.

I thank you for your idea and I haven't discounted it entirely. I am seriously thinking about on for heating my shop. Cheap, easy installation, and the ability to heat my shop with wood, including scrap wood from my woodworking shop.


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## Ross

I like the look of the fireplace/furnace, a very neat concpet. PSG is the wood furnace I'm most familiar with and they make a version called the Caddy, which has a glass door. Not as nice as the charmaster though. PSG does have a better than average heat exchanger which is why I chose it (A PSG4000) when we started. Price for the Charmaster is excellent!


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## Mickie3

free-2-b-me said:


> With all the new regulations coming with outside wood stoves if we were to replace what we have I will take our wood burning back inside .


Hasn't NY almost outlawed using the outdoor furnaces? Seems that I read something about there being a law passed to limit them and eventually get rid of them entirely. (Used to live in Niagara county and still try to keep up there some.) 

I was talking to the builder we are using and he is recommending that we use an indoor furnace as they are higher efficiency as they have been redesigned to meet EPA standards. I am wanting to use wood as back up for a GSHP so we are prepared in case of outage as will be in very rural area and really have my doubts about the utility company.


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## free-2-b-me

They haven't outlawed the use of them . They have come up with use regulations . One being having the stack 18-20 feet . The type of things that can be burned in them is another . No paper , cardboard , painted or glued items . Just clean wood . 
I believe they want to totally ban their use by 2021 . This is why I said that if I need to replace my heat source I will bring it back to something within the house . The newer wood stoves are much more efficient and have many more options . I only see that getting better in the next few years . Saving my pennies for it !!!!


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## PastTense

Here are a couple forums where you can probably find more experts:
http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/
http://www.arboristsite.com/forumdisplay.php?f=55


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## Stephen in SOKY

I have no basement, but I really miss the wood fired FA furnace I had in the basement at my last house. Consequently I'm considering the U.S. Stove 1600 EF as it burns coal as well as wood. I simply can't justify $10K + for an outside boiler, nor do I wish to feed one at the rate that actual users report, so an outside FA unit seems to be my only choice. I'll certainly be keeping my indoor wood/coal stove, but I really want to move the main heating source outside and tie it into my present central system for better heat distribution.


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## free-2-b-me

Here is what we are facing right now in NY
http://thedailystar.com/localnews/x2036086119/State-board-approves-regulation-of-wood-boilers


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## Mickie3

> Here is what we are facing right now in NY
> http://thedailystar.com/localnews/x2...f-wood-boilers
> Reply With Quote


That seems reasonably unoffensive at first blush, not burning treated wood, having exhaust stack minimum heights (can see this in more densely populated areas, not a blanket regulation for all locations), etc. but am wondering what they are planning on next. That is what makes me worry about legislation like this, when I have seen what has been done in the name of "public safety" in other areas (think smokers, whether you personally smoke or not.) What was in the regulation that failed to get passed, this time, that is?


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## Stephen in SOKY

With the Phase III regulations soon taking effect on all wood burning appliances at the Federal level we might all want to consider purchasing sooner rather than later.


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## chrisl

I have experience with both. I prefer the wood boiler of the force air on many levels. 
1. Less wood and wasted heat. I always hated open the window in the dead of winter because the house was 90 deg. 
2. We retain more moisture in our house, less trips to Dr. for sinus infections etc.
3. Power saving heating our domestic hot water.
4. And with the tax credit they are more affordable

We use a Schaver wood boiler, with a heat exchanger in the existing propane furnace and absolutely love wouldn't have anything else.

www.outdoorwoodfurnaceboiler.com

Chris


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## Valleyguy

We currently have a 10 year old Central Boiler brand of outdoor boiler. It is certainly a love/hate situation. 

Good:
It burns wood that I would never put into an indoor wood stove. This is good for cleaning up the woods. 

It is also the closest thing to having central heating as I can think of. We have infloor heat and when it is cold, you push the little "up" button on the thermostat. In the evening, we push the little "down" button. Works great. The down side is I have to go outside to feed the hungry firebox. 

No wood/insect/critters in the house.

Heats the domestic hot water, no need for propane/oil/gas/electric.

Bad:
Uses a lot of wood.

Real Bad:
We are off the grid and those pumps are definitely consumers of electricity.:grit:

We have lived with an indoor wood stove and now this OWB. The biggest positive to the OWB is the domestic hot water heating is included! When I get around to incorporating a solar hot water heating system this will be less of a plus for the OWB though. Tough choice, real tough choice.


Rick
_Website _ www.Power-Talk.net
_Forum_ http://forum.power-talk.net/


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## FyredUp

I received a call from a sales rep at CharMaster in response to my request for info. I have to say it was a very low key, low pressure call and I had to chuckle when the sales guy said "I don't care whether you are looking to buy now or in 3 years, if you have questions give me a call." We talked for a few minutes about their products, mostly centering on the fireplace/forced air furnace combo. My wife and I really like the look of this, the ambiance of a fireplace and the efficiency of whole house heat. 

To be brutaly honest in my situation, where my wife works rotating overnight 12 hour shifts and I work rotating 24 hours shifts, the wood heat would never be the sole source of heat anyways because there are days when neither one of us is home at all. I see it as a way of cutting heating costs AND in the event that SHTF and fuel oil is not available I can still heat my home. Also, I am within 3 years or so of retirement and then it could be the main source of heat for my house.


As for the outdoor boiler...I looked into it and to set up a Central Boiler just to heat my house was going to cost me $12K. Hot water was an additional cost, as was adding my polebarn. I was looking at well over $15K for that. I can install the fireplace/forced air furnace in my house, add another CharMaster outdoor wood furnace for my shop and still end up at around HALF the cost of the boiler. Payback is MUCH faster with the CharMaster than the boiler.

I am not saying that the boiler is a bad idea IF you have explored your options and you determine it is best for you and your situation. For me the initial cost of purchase and set-up couldn't be justified in my situation.


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## Valleyguy

FryedUp,

I was thinking strictly outdoor wood _boiler_, completely overlooked the outdoor furnace. And yes, the Central Boiler is very expensive but in our case it was already installed. 

Curious if you can toss marginal wood in a unit like the CharMaster? 

Rick
*Homepage*: www.power-talk.net
*Forum*: forum.power-talk.net/


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## FyredUp

Valleyguy said:


> FryedUp,
> 
> I was thinking strictly outdoor wood _boiler_, completely overlooked the outdoor furnace. And yes, the Central Boiler is very expensive but in our case it was already installed.
> 
> Curious if you can toss marginal wood in a unit like the CharMaster?
> 
> Rick
> *Homepage*: www.power-talk.net
> *Forum*: forum.power-talk.net/


What do you consider marginal wood?

Don


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## Valleyguy

FyredUp said:


> What do you consider marginal wood?
> 
> Don


We have birch, aspen/cottonwood and spruce. The larger cottonwood is great for milling into non-structural pieces but some of it is well, marginal. Hollow in the middle or been on the ground for a while. The problem is I get too excited and take cottonwood and birch that has been on the ground a bit too long...... 

It burns in the outdoor boiler but I am sure the Btu's are rather low considering the water that needs to be driven off. Fortunately over the last 5 years since we have been full time wood burners, my standards on what I will take have gone up. Just yesterday I was laughing at myself as I was walking past some scroungy stuff that I would have harvested last year. 200 wooded acres and I am scrounging. Oh well, I am a frugal guy I guess.

As a side note, we are doing quite a bit of building around here and so far we haven't gotten ahead of the curve on the firewood supply. I am cutting this winters wood, basically today. Fortunately we have a good supply of firewood on the stump aka standing beetle kill spruce.

So I guess marginal wood to me is green or wet, half rotted wood. But the trusty Central Boiler burns it! You guys with real hardwood have it good:bow: 

Rick
*Homepage*: www.power-talk.net
*Forum*: forum.power-talk.net/


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## FyredUp

Valleyguy said:


> We have birch, aspen/cottonwood and spruce. The larger cottonwood is great for milling into non-structural pieces but some of it is well, marginal. Hollow in the middle or been on the ground for a while. The problem is I get too excited and take cottonwood and birch that has been on the ground a bit too long......
> 
> It burns in the outdoor boiler but I am sure the Btu's are rather low considering the water that needs to be driven off. Fortunately over the last 5 years since we have been full time wood burners, my standards on what I will take have gone up. Just yesterday I was laughing at myself as I was walking past some scroungy stuff that I would have harvested last year. 200 wooded acres and I am scrounging. Oh well, I am a frugal guy I guess.
> 
> As a side note, we are doing quite a bit of building around here and so far we haven't gotten ahead of the curve on the firewood supply. I am cutting this winters wood, basically today. Fortunately we have a good supply of firewood on the stump aka standing beetle kill spruce.
> 
> So I guess marginal wood to me is green or wet, half rotted wood. But the trusty Central Boiler burns it! You guys with real hardwood have it good:bow:
> 
> Rick
> *Homepage*: www.power-talk.net
> *Forum*: forum.power-talk.net/



I have enough wood sitting right now that I wouldn't have to burn anything green or wet. And I just throw the half rotted stuff either on my burn pile or set it aside for camp fires.

I have quite a mix of wood in my pile, Maple, oak, various pine, box elder, black walnut, and some just garbage trees that I don't even know what they are that I cut down. My feeling has always been free wood is free heat. Even if it burns faster or doesn't produce the same BTU's. What else would I do with it? Just toss it on my brush pile and waste it when I burned it up?

I probably have 6 or 8 cords that are ready to burn and another probably 20 trees that need to either be trimmed or dropped completely. I also have 4 HUGE old Maples that need to be trimmed for their own health and I am figuring maybe a cord or 2 out of that, maybe more. There is a lot to be trimmed.

Don


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## Valleyguy

Don,

I just have to say..maple,oak, black walnut. I cannot even imagine what a dream that would be like to burn. I feel like I am doing good when I get into my little stash of dry birch when we get into the single digits on the thermometer.

And I am with you on the "free wood is free heat". If I am going to go to the trouble to move it, I want to do something useful with it. Plus we are burning scraps all summer just for domestic hot water (free hot water, except for the labor involved of dragging in branches). Of course lighting a fire here isn't that bad of a job since our summertime high temps are typically below 80Â°.

Curious, it sounds like the CharMaster is similar in operation to an OWB. Load it up and let it run, based on an indoor thermostat, the damper opens and closes to regulate the burn? I like the "fire and forget" aspect of the Central Boiler when we are in town for the day. I suppose if that is the case with a CharMaster then you could leave the house unattended for a day (burning the hardwood that you have :thumb. 

Rick
*Homepage*: www.power-talk.net
*Forum*: forum.power-talk.net/


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## FyredUp

Valleyguy said:


> Don,
> 
> I just have to say..maple,oak, black walnut. I cannot even imagine what a dream that would be like to burn. I feel like I am doing good when I get into my little stash of dry birch when we get into the single digits on the thermometer.
> 
> And I am with you on the "free wood is free heat". If I am going to go to the trouble to move it, I want to do something useful with it. Plus we are burning scraps all summer just for domestic hot water (free hot water, except for the labor involved of dragging in branches). Of course lighting a fire here isn't that bad of a job since our summertime high temps are typically below 80Â°.
> 
> Curious, it sounds like the CharMaster is similar in operation to an OWB. Load it up and let it run, based on an indoor thermostat, the damper opens and closes to regulate the burn? I like the "fire and forget" aspect of the Central Boiler when we are in town for the day. I suppose if that is the case with a CharMaster then you could leave the house unattended for a day (burning the hardwood that you have :thumb.
> 
> Rick
> *Homepage*: www.power-talk.net
> *Forum*: forum.power-talk.net/


Rick,

I will tell you the best wood EVER for getting a fire going is a couple year old dried out Weeping Willow. Once it is dry a chunk a couple feet long and 6 or 8 inches across is light as paper. It ignites quickly, burns fairly hot, and is just perfect for getting the other wood you are trying to burn going. By itself it isn't worth a darn because it burns up too fast.

What I liked about the CharMaster was the ability for it to throttle itself down when I didn't need heat instead of the wood just burning up and being wasted. Very similar to a OWB system. That could save me money even if I wasn't home to feed it at times. But like I said previously, I will keep my fuel oil furnace hooked up as a back up incase my wife, kids, or myslef are unable to feed the wood furnace.

Don


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## Liberty's Ledge

Always looking out to protect us from ourselves or effectively regulate us into poverty. 

Don the proper quote should read:
The world is divided amongst 2 kinds of people. Those that DO and those who take advantage of them.


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