# Homeless



## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

This week I met a lady who is homeless. She has been living out of her car and camping along a stream since May. The state took her children, and docked her paycheck to the point she lost her home. But this isn't really about why she was out there, but about how she survived. 

She found a remote stream in the national forest. Then she set up camp site with a large tent, propane for cooking and heat. She cooked from scratch, used fresh produce, canned goods, powdered milk. The few things she needed to cool, she kept in the stream. She boiled water for drinking. She said she would have liked a fire but was warned that it would be illegal. Her costs were $200 a month for gas and propane. She used recycled 5 gallon buckets for storage, water and in the stream. Everything she owns is in a Scout. She looked healthy. 

However, it all fell apart with an early blizzard that left her stranded. 

If you found it neccessary to live this life, how would you prepare for winter survival. Her plan is to now head to NM wher it will be warmer. The down side is that here she was saving money to get her kids back, if she leaves the state she loses the kids. 

Could you do winter camping if you needed to? Surviving the summer in the woods along a flowing stream is one thing, surviving winter, quite another. If you found yourself homeless, could you survive and how would you do it?


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Doesn't she qualify for any kind of public housing, welfare or food stamps? I applaud her survivalist nature, but she can only live like that for so long. Especially without a fire, and winter coming on. Even if she drives to a warmer place, how will she continue to buy supplies?


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

I'd get a wood burning tent stove and a heavy canvass tent if I had to stay in the woods during the winter.


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2008)

Isn't there a homeless mission she could stay at?


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2008)

Am I the only one wondering why she lost her children in the first place?


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

I doubt she will get them back. She refuses to take meds and until she does they won't be allowed to live with her, for good reason. It is very sad. Yes, she has other options, but can't live with people (mentally). On her own she does very well. She has a small amount of income from some writing she does, enough to survive and she is happy. 

But the point & thing that hit me, was if any of us had to do this (& in this economy who is to say we won't?) are you ready, do you have a plan to survive?


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## ailsaek (Feb 7, 2007)

My plan involves the fact that I _can_ live with people. DH & I have already figured that if we lost the house, we'd go live with his parents for a while.


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2008)

Cheryl in SD said:


> But the point & thing that hit me, was if any of us had to do this (& in this economy who is to say we won't?) are you ready, do you have a plan to survive?


I've been homeless more than once. Never had a plan, but survived.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

................I can't comment on her kids or mental state , But , what she does need to do , is to erect a supporting structure of 2 x4 's or 2 x 6 's on the inside of her tent to remove those inevitable "sags" that a canvas structure will have due to rain or snow ! Maybe you could instruct her so she can derive a conceptual basis for supporting her tent everytime she has to move and re establish her camp . , fordy


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

ladycat said:


> Am I the only one wondering why she lost her children in the first place?



...............Bipolar ? , fordy


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

We can live with people, too, and have campers if that isn't an option.

Fordy, good idea on the supports. Thanks.


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## Mrs Katzenchix (Aug 19, 2005)

I would like to know where to buy a heavy canvas tent & wood burning stove for a tent. how much would they cost? 

We have some camping gear -- an inexpensive 3 room tent (bought it 4 years ago but haven't had a chance to camp out so we don't know how good it will be), propane stove, camp shower, & misc. other stuff. But we don't have much that will be good for cold weather camping. I now plan to buy 2 Mr. Buddy propane heaters for use when TSHF as well as to supplement our home heating during winter, if needed. 

Lately I've felt an urgency to prepare for the possibility of living wo heat for an indefinite period. I've followed this board for awhile & wanted to do more serious prepping, but we have had so many financial burdens over the past 2 years, our plans have fallen by the wayside. But with all that is happening & the outlook for the future, I am trying to get things going again with food & other preps. 

Both my folks & DH's have passed & we can't count on grown kids or siblings to help in a SHF scenario, so we are on our own. (In fact, everyone will be looking to _us_ to help them which is even more scary) I pray that we will be able to keep our home in the coming years, but if the worst happened, I would like to have some emergency fallback. Like cold weather camping gear just in case.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

fordy said:


> ................I can't comment on her kids or mental state , But , what she does need to do , is to erect a supporting structure of 2 x4 's or 2 x 6 's on the inside of her tent to remove those inevitable "sags" that a canvas structure will have due to rain or snow ! Maybe you could instruct her so she can derive a conceptual basis for supporting her tent everytime she has to move and re establish her camp . , fordy


If she's in a national forest, I'm sure there are rules against building anything, just like she can't have a fire. If she's seen as a permanent squatter they will run her off, too. Most parks have rules about how many days you can camp. The only way to get around those rules is to move your camp every so many days. And even then if you're obviously living there the rangers will make you leave.


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

Mrs Katzenchix, Have you thought about getting a small camper? We found an old pickup camper in the paper for free and often see older pull campers for less than $500. We have both now & are getting them ready to go. If need be we can load them up & "move" very quickly. One would be sleeping quarters the other living quarters. Our tents would be storage areas. We tried it a couple years ago and it is very comfortable that way. You could pack it, ready to move out in just a few minutes. 

I did suggest that the gal find a camper for winter. We have lived in campers twice in our married live and found them to be very comfortable.


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

Mrs Katzenchix said:


> I would like to know where to buy a heavy canvas tent & wood burning stove for a tent. how much would they cost?
> .


 you should try a Tee Pee indian style, no stove, hole in the top for the smoke to go out. Fire in the middle of the floor, tri pod to hold the dutch oven. I would have it made out of the heavy vinal that in they use to cover boats or for truck tarps, they are tough. I would just want it made out of camo colors and so the floor was 12' across and 12 ft high.. I'd cut the poles out of what ever wood was where i was camping.

put some dirt around the inside to keep water from comming in.


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## Horns Bach (Mar 11, 2008)

I knew a lady in the SW U.S. that survived winter in a cave, back on remote forest service land, and she basically "hibernated", sleeping most of the time. Only had to trek out a bit to restock food supply. But she didn't need much food due to her inactivity "hibernation".
Amazing Lady. Don't know what ever happened to her though.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Mrs Katzenchix said:


> I would like to know where to buy a heavy canvas tent & wood burning stove for a tent. how much would they cost?
> 
> We have some camping gear -- an inexpensive 3 room tent (bought it 4 years ago but haven't had a chance to camp out so we don't know how good it will be), propane stove, camp shower, & misc. other stuff. But we don't have much that will be good for cold weather camping. I now plan to buy 2 Mr. Buddy propane heaters for use when TSHF as well as to supplement our home heating during winter, if needed.
> 
> ...


If I'm not mistaking it, the four dog are made for tents.

http://www.fourdog.com/index.html


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

Sonshine said:


> If I'm not mistaking it, the four dog are made for tents.
> 
> http://www.fourdog.com/index.html



Those are great! I didn't look to see what else was on their site. Thanks for the link.


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## Mrs Katzenchix (Aug 19, 2005)

That's a good idea Cheryl. I will start watching Craigslist & the like for campers. But they would definitely have to be dirt cheap (or free) before we will be able to buy them. 

Stranger--the teepee sounds awesome, but it also sounds a bit too difficult for DH & I to construct when the time came. Maybe if I saw some plans/instructions. 

BTW I think this is a really timely topic. The homeless lady Cheryl posted about is a unique circumstance & I wish her well, but I fear there will be many more homeless in the near future, if the country goes into a real depression. (I'm thinking of the new photos of tent cities I've seen recently.) The post yesterday in this forum about Gerald Celente really got my attention & DH. I remember seeing a report about him & his group years ago & they were talking about his accuracy in forecasting trends. With him predicting a depression greater than that of the 30s, basically TEOFTWAWKI in the US, it is the most serious warning I've seen yet of what is to come. At the very least, it has kicked me into gear about starting to prep.


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## palani (Jun 12, 2005)

ladycat said:


> Am I the only one wondering why she lost her children in the first place?


Marriage license invites the state to participate in the fruits of the marriage. A birth certificate (make note of the area where the mother signs as informer to the state) seals the deal. Under parens patriae the state is within their 'rights'.

The prep work to avoid this situation needed to have started 15-20 years ago.

On the positive side, if the kid needs any medical work done you get the state to foot the bill. This might take a little underhanded manipulating but has been known to happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parens_patriae


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## 4sam (Jun 8, 2006)

Mrs. Katzenchix...I do historical re-enacting with my DH and DS. We ordered a wall tent from Idaho Canvas. Great quality and was a good price. Won the lodge off ebay for $375. Make sure you get a stove pipe hole when ordering so you can put a stove in there. Once you have a fire going it is nice and toasty and dry. http://idahocanvas.com/id46.htm


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

I've thought about getting a camper for my pickup, but decided against it because it's my only vehicle; I don't want to drive the truck with a camper on it all the time, and am not sure I'd be able to get it off and back on by myself. So the other thought is a cheap used travel trailer. 

We are somewhat prepared for winter camping. I'd love to have a canvas tent, but they are very heavy, too heavy for my goats to carry, I think. If you have pack-horses, or are absolutely certain that you'll never need to camp far from your vehicle, then a canvas tent would be a good choice. Otherwise, you need to learn how to make shelters of some kind, or locate a good cave.

Kathleen


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## magnolia2017 (Dec 5, 2005)

http://www.pantherprimitives.com

Ths company is 50-75 miles away from me, yet I had no idea they existed until I ran across their catalog at the dentist's office. A little pricey but they do make tents to order.

As for living through the winter in a homeless situation, I think it could be done with the proper know-how and preparations. Many of you say that you could live with relatives as could we, but stop and think about those who have no family or friends nearby.

Maggie


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Mom_of_Four said:


> If she's in a national forest, I'm sure there are rules against building anything, just like she can't have a fire. If she's seen as a permanent squatter they will run her off, too. Most parks have rules about how many days you can camp. The only way to get around those rules is to move your camp every so many days. And even then if you're obviously living there the rangers will make you leave.


Correct, Fordy...
You can only camp for 14 days, without having to pack up and move along... Every land management agency... BLM, USFS, USFWS [NPS would have ticketed her the very first day... absolutely no squattin' on NPS land, or even 'thinking' about it...] has a limit on stays. Squatting is verboten.

I feel for the lady, but I dislike squatters on public land... the area gets trashed and sanitation becomes a big big issue.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

I've had to deal with mentally ill friends. My mistake was trying to help them out as did all the neighbors. People offering food $20 here and there, a place to roost from time to time actually hurts them. Some mentally ill are very clean, charismatic and a hoot to hang around with! They easily charm strangers into helping them out with groceries and tools and gear, to the point where they think they are alright on their own.

The average cycle of the mentally ill from the time the court tells them to take their meds to the time they realize they have lost friends, family, home, possessions and self-respect is about 10 years. Then they finally say to themselves, "Maybe I am sick? Maybe taking the meds is not a bad idea after all?"

Bipolar disorder usually hits people in the 20s and 30s, mostly women. By the time they realize they have a problem, they are in the 40s and early 50s. Still young enough to start life anew.




Cheryl in SD said:


> I doubt she will get them back. She refuses to take meds and until she does they won't be allowed to live with her, for good reason. It is very sad. Yes, she has other options, but can't live with people (mentally). On her own she does very well. She has a small amount of income from some writing she does, enough to survive and she is happy.
> 
> But the point & thing that hit me, was if any of us had to do this (& in this economy who is to say we won't?) are you ready, do you have a plan to survive?


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

She was hiding from the Forest Service officers, that's for sure. I told her about the free sites. Every summer there are two or three people that move from one free site to another as you can only camp in them for 14 days. They make a circut and do well. If she were to do that, she would have fire & an outhouse.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

Cheryl in SD said:


> She was hiding from the Forest Service officers, that's for sure. I told her about the free sites. Every summer there are two or three people that move from one free site to another as you can only camp in them for 14 days. They make a circut and do well. If she were to do that, she would have fire & an outhouse.


..............If this lady befriends the forest service personnel , keeps a clean camp , obeys their requests , eventually , she will find them cutting her aLOT of slack ! 
..............What she should really do is start working in the campgrounds , then , she can camp there , in her tent and not have to move . It'll probably take her a year to work her way into the system but long term , it would really solve a lot of her problems associated with her living accommodations and having to move every two weeks . , fordy


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

You have a lot of god ideas Fordy. If she lets me I will pass them on.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

I've contemplated this as a worst-case scenario. I don't anticipate being without work as I'm very experienced in a field that there's basically always work for, and I can write and do web dev on the side. However, I have medical issues that could end up eating up my entire average monthly check if I ever lose health insurance (or end up with health insurance that doesn't cover preexisting, i.e., I change jobs.) It could come down to paying for meds or paying for mortgage, worst case scenario.

(Thankfully, I have a BF and supportive family, so this is improbable. But ...) 

But, worst case -- I'd get the smallest bumper pull trailer I could find, I figure, and a shell for my pickup. Store life's necessities in the pickup (you know, a couple thousand books and a spare change of clothes) and live out of the trailer. Move as necessary. Hopefully find some place secure and cheap or free to park the trailer, use the truck to commute to whatever job I could find. If I can't find other work, as long as I have a laptop and air card I can make enough to cover groceries, and there's assistance programs that would cover the meds if my income was low enough. 

The advantage to a trailer is that it's quickly portable and more storm resistant than a tent. It's also safer to heat and has a potty that doesn't involve squatting on poison ivy, getting mosquito bites in odd places, or slipping in a fresh cow patty at two AM. Plus, a trailer has a lock on it -- while the lock's pretty flimsy, at least someone breaking in would make enough noise to wake my dogs. *grin*


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

If you have a trailer, look up the web site 'workkampers" or some spelling like that. It's where you bid for being park hosts and hostess for a period of time. I have two aunts/uncles doing this this year. One just went to a new place as a winter time caretaker type of job. They get paid an negotiated amount and a space for the camper and electricity/etc.

Angie


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## rickd203 (Sep 11, 2005)

Winter used to be one of my favorite times to go camping so I did learn a few things about staying alive in winter outdoors. 

Tents are almost impossible to keep warm so we rarely took them winter camping. When we found a good spot to camp we would make something called a wigwam or wickiup. We made our first wigwam when we were about 10 y.o. so is isn't that hard to make. Since you are using natural materials from the surrounding area, it is naturally camouflaged. A good solid wigwam only takes 3-4 hrs to put up and can last several years. The best way I found is to cover the frame with burlap before adding grass, leaves, bark, twigs, moss, sod, etc. 6-10" of covering will keep you toasty warm on even the coldest nights with a small firepit. A small propane heater on low also works.


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## pistolsmom (Mar 19, 2005)

Met a guy once who lived in his van. He had a 82 dodge with a bed in the back. Pulled a small storage trailer behind it. He slept alot at rest stops and truck stops. Had a small propane grill he could cook on and a small propane heater he could warm up the van with. Kept his clothes, tools, cooler, and such in the trailer. Even had a lawn chair in there so he could set outside his van when the weather was decent.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

>..."refuses to take meds" . . . 

Ah yes . .you will take your meds and become a walking zombie . . . . . . .

So what is she supost to be taking meds for..?


I will admit tho that I know nothing about bipolar, meds, etc. etc.
I'm big time against those magic pills for anything and everything.


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Jim-mi said:


> I will admit tho that I know nothing about bipolar, meds, etc. etc.
> I'm big time against those magic pills for anything and everything.


There are times when they are necessary to lead a normal existence.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

Cheryl in SD said:


> I doubt she will get them back. She refuses to take meds and until she does they won't be allowed to live with her, for good reason. It is very sad. Yes, she has other options, but can't live with people (mentally). On her own she does very well. She has a small amount of income from some writing she does, enough to survive and she is happy.
> 
> But the point & thing that hit me, was if any of us had to do this (& in this economy who is to say we won't?) are you ready, do you have a plan to survive?



Actually, what amazes me is that no one has hurt her yet. She must be hiding pretty well.




Camping out like this, finding food - that's one thing.

Keeping safe from wild animals and humans - totally different issue.





Make no mistake - women who live by themselves do get killed.

Up in the mountains in NY, there used to be a woman who lived in the woods -she wrote a bunch of books about her country lifestyle.

She got murdered.



Then again, that can happen anywhere. Except in Texas, I suppose.


.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

pistolsmom said:


> Met a guy once who lived in his van. He had a 82 dodge with a bed in the back. Pulled a small storage trailer behind it. He slept alot at rest stops and truck stops. Had a small propane grill he could cook on and a small propane heater he could warm up the van with. Kept his clothes, tools, cooler, and such in the trailer. Even had a lawn chair in there so he could set outside his van when the weather was decent.



There's this book out, by some African American who lived in cars for 10 years.

One of these days, I plan on buying his book (I think it's like $30 on Amazon).


.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

ladycat said:


> I've been homeless more than once. Never had a plan, but survived.


I really really would like you to start a thread on talk about your experiences.

I don't have anything that comes close to this.




I've been a submariner, been to Europe, been to Israel, sold cars, been a waiter, met Debbie Gibson...

...but I've never been homeless. I guarantee you your experiences trump mine.



Would you be willing to write about your experiences? (start a new thread please...)


.


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Chuck-prime said:


> Except in Texas, I suppose.


Huh? 
.


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Chuck-prime said:


> I really really would like you to start a thread on talk about your experiences.
> 
> I don't have anything that comes close to this.
> 
> ...


I don't know. If I did, I wouldn't give much detail. Lots of painful memories involved.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

ladycat - if you feel like giving an over view of how you survived, please feel free to do so. If it hurts to remember, we'll understand.

Angie


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

ladycat said:


> Huh?
> .


Women from Texas know how to shoot - that's what I've heard, though (not personal experience)...

.


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

AngieM2 said:


> ladycat - if you feel like giving an over view of how you survived, please feel free to do so.


I'm thinking about it...


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

Jim-mi said:


> >..."refuses to take meds" . . .
> 
> Ah yes . .you will take your meds and become a walking zombie . . . . . . .
> 
> ...


She hears audible voices telling her to do things. The meds would stop the voices, so she won't take them.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

ladycat said:


> I don't know. If I did, I wouldn't give much detail. Lots of painful memories involved.


Okay.

But was it out in the country or city?

.


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Jim-mi said:


> >..."refuses to take meds" . . .
> 
> Ah yes . .you will take your meds and become a walking zombie . . . . . . .
> 
> ...





Cheryl in SD said:


> She hears audible voices telling her to do things. The meds would stop the voices, so she won't take them.


This I will go ahead and comment on. I was on psychotropic drugs for many years. From childhood well into adulthood. I was on more than off.

The problem was probably partly heredity and no doubt largely triggered by extremely severe childhood abuse.

I forget some of the labels applied to me, but I had fugue states (a sort of amnesia in which I became a different personality and did crazy wild things I didn't remember), periods of psychosis, and other psychiatric disorders.

I'm not on meds now due to extreme will-power, but it's a minute by minute, often almost overwhelming struggle.

Believe me, if I hadn't been on meds and receiving intense psychotherapy, I would have been locked up in a rubber room long ago, if I hadn't committed suicide first.

There ARE situations in which meds are very necessary to function in society.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

My daughter and I were homeless for a few months after my marriage broke up. I've talked about it some here on HT, but maybe not so much on this forum. We had an advantage in that DD is mentally handicapped and gets SSI, so we did have some income, plenty to live on as long as we didn't have any bills. We spent four months traveling from the East Coast to the West Coast and back again, camping, and visiting/staying with family members. We had a small pickup with a flatbed; we'd built a 6' X 6' plywood box on the flatbed, and I put two 2' wide pipe-and-canvas cots in the box, three feet off the floor. This gave us room to stash quite a bit of stuff under the cots, and in the aisle between them. The roof was made of bent electrical conduit with canvas stretched over it -- I painted the canvas with exterior house paint, hoping it would help waterproof it. I don't know if it did much good, as when it rained hard, anything touching the canvas did get wet. But the canvas roof was still in excellent condition a year and ten thousand miles later. 

Some of our gear rode on the cots during the day; it was a bit inconvenient to constantly have to move things around (empty the cots to go to bed, then load stuff back onto them in order to find clean clothes, food, etc., in the morning). But it really wasn't bad, and I decided that we could live in very little more space than that box! 

While traveling, we slept at rest areas and truck stops, and never had the slightest problem with anyone. We did have a large dog along; my only weapon was a length of steel pipe. I knew we'd be passing through some states with bad gun laws, so chose not to even carry a gun with us. If we ever have to repeat the experience, we'll avoid the bad states and carry a weapon. We were not, however, frequenting cities other than to pass through on the freeways, nor did we spend much time camping in isolated areas. We always camped where there were other people around to help if need be. I like to be isolated, but it isn't wise for females on their own. 

I hope we never have to do it again, but if we do, we will probably at least attempt to go back to Alaska, where family members have property we could camp on (and they would be nearby). We know what it takes to survive the winters there, and are prepared to do so. But it takes quite a bit of money to get into Canada, and a passport (for each of us). If we were too broke to manage that, then we'd camp in the National Forests around here, rotating as necessary. I haven't quite figured out the logistics, because I have absolutely no intention of giving up my livestock (they feed us; supplemented with what we could forage, we'd survive even if we weren't able to buy any food). Probably a canopy on the back of the pickup for us to live in, plus a stock trailer fitted out for the animals. If we didn't even have money for gas (or if gas wasn't available) then the packsaddles go on the goats, and we live in the tent, moving as necessary. In that situation, I would be looking for good people to band together with for mutual protection. I do have two large dogs now, although one of them is past middle age in dog years. 

We had a Coleman propane camp stove along on our four-month camping trip, a brand new one. But we didn't cook anything on it -- there was a leak in the tubing somewhere, and when I tried to light it flames erupted almost clear back to the propane tank (a cylinder). We tried it a couple of times with the same result, and gave it up as a bad idea. TEST YOUR EQUIPMENT BEFORE YOU NEED IT!! I would far rather depend on a small wood-burning stove, such as a hobo stove -- these will burn just about anything flammable, including twists of dry grass. But sometimes you can't have any open fire safely or legally. So I now have a parabolic solar cooker, and will be making one of the solar ovens, as well. If it's raining and the solar cookers won't work, the little wood stove should be safe to use (but keep some dry fuel stored for it). 

Kathleen


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## Kazahleenah (Nov 3, 2004)

ladycat said:


> I've been homeless more than once. Never had a plan, but survived.


 So have I. A couple times with 2 small children. I wouldn't call them "hard memories"... just tough ones. We made it OK and that's all that matters to me. :sing:


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## prairiedog (Jan 18, 2007)

where does she get the 200 a month?


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## TexasArtist (May 4, 2003)

stranger said:


> I would have it made out of the heavy vinal that in they use to cover boats or for truck tarps, they are tough. .


they are strong BUT they aren't fire retardent. After the heat builds up enough there is a possibility of being warm in a whole new way!! Also some of those heavy tarps the companies will put an oil on them.


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

She does some writing for magazines & actually supports herself.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

The reason I would go for a tent rather than a camper is that you can get to many camping spots with a 4WD vehicle but not if you are pulling a trailer or even with a pickup camper.

Canvas is probably a bit harder to erect than the nylon tents, but it is quite a bit more comfortable and can last longer. Daughter and I lived in a tent for over 6 months once. We went thru two nylon tents as they don't hold up well.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

That's a good plan for survival. But that's not livin'.

I've a similar backup plan in case I'm not able to pay the mortgages on all three of the homes I own. (I have contingencies for contingencies).

My job is doing well for now. I suppose a good backup would be to get married to a woman who also has a nice job. We can then count on each other.

I do believe that is known as a family support base.




Cygnet said:


> I've contemplated this as a worst-case scenario. I don't anticipate being without work as I'm very experienced in a field that there's basically always work for, and I can write and do web dev on the side. However, I have medical issues that could end up eating up my entire average monthly check if I ever lose health insurance (or end up with health insurance that doesn't cover preexisting, i.e., I change jobs.) It could come down to paying for meds or paying for mortgage, worst case scenario.
> 
> (Thankfully, I have a BF and supportive family, so this is improbable. But ...)
> 
> ...


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## rickd203 (Sep 11, 2005)

Here's a couple photos using (mostly) what nature provides. Some of these are really cozy and I would be very comfortable living in them. 










This is the basic framework










This one is covered with reeds.










This is a three season burlap covered wigwan. By adding grass, leaves, etc. it is good for winter living.










This a museum disply of an inside layout.




























This one has a stone fireplace. It is a reproduction from Plymouth Plantation 
in MA.


Heres a couple websites:

http://www.nativetech.org/wigwam/construction.html

http://www.nativetech.org/wigwam/construction.html


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

My DH and I do a lot of winter camping....and without campers either, the real strap on a pack and hike into the wilderness type away from cars. I wouldn't want to have to live like that. can get pretty miserable.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Something that anyone with a little cash could do right now as a prep, if there's any chance at all of you losing your home in the future (whether because you can't pay the mortgage, or because you can't pay the property taxes), is buy a little piece of cheap land. They do exist -- you can look at eBay, and find some, but that's probably not the best place to actually purchase (if anyone here has bought land off eBay, maybe they could chime in). Get cheap land for cash in an area with no building regulations, or very few, and with no or extremely low property taxes, and you will at least have a place of your own where you can camp in case you do lose your home. There you would be able to make improvements to your shelter (hard to do that if you are hiding in the National Forests), have a garden (can't do that in the National Forests), and even have some livestock if you have room (can't do that in the National Forests, either). Go together with family and friends, and split a larger piece of land between you, and you'll have neighbors you know and can trust.

Kathleen


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2008)

BlueJuniperFarm said:


> Something that anyone with a little cash could do right now as a prep, if there's any chance at all of you losing your home in the future (whether because you can't pay the mortgage, or because you can't pay the property taxes), is buy a little piece of cheap land. They do exist -- you can look at eBay, and find some, but that's probably not the best place to actually purchase (if anyone here has bought land off eBay, maybe they could chime in). Get cheap land for cash in an area with no building regulations, or very few, and with no or extremely low property taxes, and you will at least have a place of your own where you can camp in case you do lose your home. There you would be able to make improvements to your shelter (hard to do that if you are hiding in the National Forests), have a garden (can't do that in the National Forests), and even have some livestock if you have room (can't do that in the National Forests, either). Go together with family and friends, and split a larger piece of land between you, and you'll have neighbors you know and can trust.
> 
> Kathleen


That is such a good idea!


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

BlueJuniperFarm said:


> My daughter and I were homeless for a few months after my marriage broke up. I've talked about it some here on HT, but maybe not so much on this forum. We had an advantage in that DD is mentally handicapped and gets SSI, so we did have some income, plenty to live on as long as we didn't have any bills. We spent four months traveling from the East Coast to the West Coast and back again, camping, and visiting/staying with family members. We had a small pickup with a flatbed; we'd built a 6' X 6' plywood box on the flatbed, and I put two 2' wide pipe-and-canvas cots in the box, three feet off the floor. This gave us room to stash quite a bit of stuff under the cots, and in the aisle between them. The roof was made of bent electrical conduit with canvas stretched over it -- I painted the canvas with exterior house paint, hoping it would help waterproof it. I don't know if it did much good, as when it rained hard, anything touching the canvas did get wet. But the canvas roof was still in excellent condition a year and ten thousand miles later.
> 
> Some of our gear rode on the cots during the day; it was a bit inconvenient to constantly have to move things around (empty the cots to go to bed, then load stuff back onto them in order to find clean clothes, food, etc., in the morning). But it really wasn't bad, and I decided that we could live in very little more space than that box!
> 
> ...




This must have been some experience! Wish I could travel like this (but I'd have to loose my job first, which I don't want to do)...

.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

The problem with living in the 'real' boonies -- which is what cheap land on Ebay generally means -- is there's no WORK. Or if you can find work, it's minimum wage or part time. There's a reason that land's cheap! If you ever want to claw your way back up out of homelessness, you need a job. 

IMHO, parking for the night in Wal-mart parking lots, or in the back yard of friends, or paying a few hundred a month for a space in a trailer park, in a city, while you lived out of a camper, would be preferable to living on a bare patch of land in a tent somewhere with no or minimal or minimum wage work in the area. You have a chance to claw your way back up if you're somewhere that you can find work for a decent wage.

By the way, I disagree with the post upstream that you need 4 wheel drive to camp in a national forest. Depends on where you're at, I guess, but here in Arizona there's large amounts of public land accessible to 2 wheel drive vehicles. The only time you might have an issue is during late May/June when they sometimes close the forests due to fire danger. My truck doesn't have 4 wheel drive and there are tons of options for camping.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Jim-mi said:


> >..."refuses to take meds" . . .
> Ah yes . .you will take your meds and become a walking zombie . . . . . . .
> So what is she supost to be taking meds for..?
> I will admit tho that I know nothing about bipolar, meds, etc. etc.
> I'm big time against those magic pills for anything and everything.


Meds are not to make you a zombie. You're mistaking that with being drugged.

The medications prescribed for folks with bi-polar or schitzoaffective disorder are to balance their brain chemistry so they do not go to extremes.

ie. A bipolar person who is on a high cycle may not like their neighbors cat meowing at night. Solution: I'll go over to my neighbors house and douse it with gasoline to make my point! Then she'll keep that stupid cat quiet! With the szhitzoaffective dissorder, she may hear voices that tell her "Hey! That's a great idea! All your neighbors will applaude you for it! You are a genius! Go for it! President Obama just gave the nod on TV that it's OK, Remember? He was smiling for you!"

By taking the proper meds, they come to a conclusion that doing such a thing is not a socially acceptable thing to do. Maybe I'll just talk to her about keeping the cat inside instead.

A bipolar person on a low cycle may have lost her library card. "Oh my, life is not worth living! I'm worthless. Let me smother my child to death and take a whole bottle of sleeping pills tonight." And the voices say. You are pathetic! Cand even hold a library card! You should be shot!

Chances are the woman living in the park is fine when she is on a high. She thinks she's superwoman and can do this indefinitely. But I gaurantee she will eventually hit a low.

The body tries to protect itself. When on a high, all neurons are firing at high speed. The brain risks burning out. So the body shifts gears and goes into a low, or causes the person to "self-medicate" with alcohol, or marijuana, or whatever depressant is onhand to get down from the high.

Taking meds at the proper dosage level ensures that your chemistry stays at a stable reasonable state.

Unfortunately, it takes a while for doctors to find that level and bipolar folks do not like the idea of being kept in a hospital for months and given the wrong dosages which may make them too depressed, nauseous, or even normal. After all when you're on a high, you feel great! No one can stop you.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2008)

BillHoo, that's a pretty good explanation.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

It seems that people who have this kind of problem suffer more in the wintertime when the days are shorter. An observer might benefit from paying attention to this.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Chuck-prime said:


> Women from Texas know how to shoot - that's what I've heard, though (not personal experience)...
> 
> .


Women from a lot of places know how to shoot. But I guess it's to our advantage that some of you don't think so......


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

BillHoo said:


> Meds are not to make you a zombie. You're mistaking that with being drugged.
> 
> The medications prescribed for folks with bi-polar or schitzoaffective disorder are to balance their brain chemistry so they do not go to extremes.
> 
> ...




I don't know enough about this bipolar stuff (that's my qualifier), but are you saying that the chemistry in a person's brain _neutralizes their conscience, neutralizes their understanding of what is right and wrong?_


.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Chuck-prime said:


> I don't know enough about this bipolar stuff (that's my qualifier), but are you saying that the chemistry in a person's brain _neutralizes their conscience, neutralizes their understanding of what is right and wrong?_
> 
> 
> .


Are you being serious or are you going to use his answer to make a point? 

Just curious before I consider answering it.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2008)

Chuck-prime said:


> I don't know enough about this bipolar stuff (that's my qualifier), but are you saying that the chemistry in a person's brain _neutralizes their conscience, neutralizes their understanding of what is right and wrong?_


In a way it does. It's terribly difficult to explain to someone who hasn't experienced it.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2008)

Chuck-prime said:


> I don't know enough about this bipolar stuff (that's my qualifier), but are you saying that the chemistry in a person's brain _neutralizes their conscience, neutralizes their understanding of what is right and wrong?_


Here's one way to put it. It's an altered state of conciousness. 

Have you ever been real drunk or high and did something stupid so that the next day you said to yourself, I did WHAT? 

If you have experienced that, you've had the merest taste of it. Except it's a thousand times more extreme and happens all on it's own without drugs or alcohol.


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