# CL. I flagged this one so I'll [email protected] before it disappears



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

*11yr old gelding- priced to go home today! BROKE - $200 (verndale/staples)*

Emails checked hourly or better.
Needs desensitizing/tuneup (not ridden all winter). Shorter guy, sweet guy. Great in the herd. Needs his own person. No test rides. Price reflects this.
Upon inquiring include phone #. Will be home all day, so hook up your trailer! Good home, in a dedicated & knowledgeable home a must. He needs to gain alittle weight- hooves/dewormed last month. Cheap 4H prospect. 
No tirekickers- he is priced to find a home!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Step right up and buy a pig in a poke! 

I wouldn't put a leg over that horse on a double dog dare.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Sounds like he has a close relative of an old ranch gelding we used to have. Most of our saddle horses were turned out all winter and a lot of ranch horses will buck the first ride in the spring. This particular one was always the last one we rode ... we KNEW he'd blow up at least once on that first ride in the spring. Eventually my Dad (once he was in his late 50s) would loan him to the neighbors for spring calving. He'd come back a couple of months later and be fine the rest of the summer.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrHXJVQnGPM[/ame]


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

well, that sounds a lot like the add we placed to move our three registered horses.

We sold all three for $500 total, been pasture pets for 8 years and it was time we realized they were going to waste in our pasture. We knew they needed work and would not let someone test ride them - basically selling them as unbroke.

And yes, our add got flagged, but luckily we already had a buyer lined up so it didn't matter. And the horses went to a guy with lots of experience that ran a youth camp. He had staff trained that could work with the horses - and after a few months sent us an email saying he was very happy as with some work, all three were doing fine.

We sold them cheap, and made sure they went to someone that had the ability to deal with them, and enough experience to have no delusions about what he was buying.


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## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

No test rides? Why not? No way no how, IMO. I bet you they wouldn't tolerate a vet check, either. For that price and no test rides allowed, I guarantee you there is something wrong with that horse aside from not being ridden in awhile, mental, physical, or both.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

With the drought and shortage of hay, many folks sold livestock they couldn't feed. Same for horses, except there isn't much of a market for horses. When you are out of hay and the only buyers want kid broke horses, you take what you can get. 

When you price a horse for a quick sale and then they start asking for the stuff you get with a $2000 horse, that's when you tell them to leave. How much BS do they have to put up with for $200.? 
An 11 year old, short skinny, green broke horse won't attract many. If you have hay, grain and time, this might be a good deal.


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## JPiantedosi (Apr 23, 2012)

I dont see a problem with the ad.... If your uncomfortable or dont want the horses dont go look at them, but in my opinion they were as honest as they had to be.

Jim


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Buying a horse without a test ride is like buying a car without listening to it run imo. If the car doesn't run it's worth scrap price and the ad says the horse is small and thin so $200 may be high for meat price. 

4H prospect? Not _my_ kid.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

The 4H prospect was the scary part for me. No test rides, needs a tuneup, but good for a 4H prospect. Hopefully some kid's parents will approach with caution!


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I don't understand why you flagged the ad? I see nothing wrong with the ad that breaks any of CL rules.. 

You are only supposed to flag a CL because it breaks CL rules, not because you don't agree with it or don't like it..

You have no idea how P.O'd I get when people flag one of my ads, just because maybe they are selling something similar I am, or they don't like my price or wording... 

LIVE AND LET LIVE!


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I have to agree, nothing wrong with the ad, sounds quite honest for a change. I can understand them not wanting test rides on a horse that hasn't been ridden all winter and probably pretty green, there is a liability to having folks ride your horse. If you bought this horse and they continued to be honest, you'd have a good idea what you were getting. As for a 4-H'er, I suppose it depends on the kid, but I would have passed for my kids.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

For $200 for a horse I advertised as being out all winter and in need of a tuneup and desensitizing, I would not be willing for a test ride on my property either. This is probably a horse that without a good horseman riding, would blow up and buck. No matter how it was advertised, with the litigious society we deal with today, the chances of the potential buyer suing me because they got bucked off a horse I told them was likely to buck would be something I would not risk. And you can be sure that the bill of sale (of which I would keep a copy) would state that the horse required an experienced horseman and had been known to buck.

I will say I'd probably not have suggested the horse as a 4H project unless I knew the horse well and knew he'd be fine after a few rides.


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## hilarybennett (Mar 4, 2013)

I'd have messaged the seller and suggested they remove the 4H reference, but not flag their ad. That horse needs a new home worse than the seller needs it gone, really. Let him sell.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I flagged the ad because the seller made implications that the horse had at least some training but refuses to let the buyer confirm if this is so. If not actually dishonest it at least smacks of dishonesty.

It would be like selling a car and saying it runs and drives but you will not be allowed to start it and you must tow it from the property.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

tinknal said:


> I flagged the ad because the seller made implications that the horse had at least some training but refuses to let the buyer confirm if this is so. If not actually dishonest it at least smacks of dishonesty.
> 
> It would be like selling a car and saying it runs and drives but you will not be allowed to start it and you must tow it from the property.


I have seen several ads for tractors, trucks and cars described like this:" Ran fine when parked several years ago. Engine not set up. No battery and did not try to start. Will need fresh fuel. Bring a trailer. $200". That seems simple enough for me. 

Only difference is that there are fewer vehicles that haven't been started in a few years than there are horses that haven't been ridden in a few years.

A few years ago, I bought my son a work horse. He got too busy to break him. Then lost interest. I offered to get the horse broke for him. Son accepted. But after the horse was at the Amish farm a couple weeks, my son decides he doesn't want the horse. So, I get the Coggins test and interstate health papers and sign him up at a big Draft Horse Auction. 
Well, the Amish hitched him a couple times, but got too busy to work him. I had to sell him as green broke. Nothing wrong with him, just needed more "tune up". That was 9 months ago. I'll bet an Amish child is driving him and three more on a spring toothed harrow right now. 4H project? Sort of.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

tinknal said:


> I flagged the ad because the seller made implications that the horse had at least some training but refuses to let the buyer confirm if this is so. If not actually dishonest it at least smacks of dishonesty.
> 
> It would be like selling a car and saying it runs and drives but you will not be allowed to start it and you must tow it from the property.


Go buy a motorcycle.. You'll be real lucky to find anyone that will let you take it for a ride before you hand them the cash and they hand you they title... Go to a dealer and I can promise you that you can't ride it first... They won't even put fuel in it and start it.. 

I think you were in the wrong to flag that ad... It's a buyer beware world... That wasn't a deceptive ad... You might this so, but according to CL terms, it's a totally legit ad.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

IMO also there was no need to flag it either. So 4H is mention. after some "tuning up" who knows the horse maybe a great 4H prospect.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

I don't see anything wrong with the ad.

They would very likely allow you to try the horse out if you sound like you know what you are doing and you are a serious buyer,

In some areas, lots of people go around "testing" horses out so that they can have a free horse back ride and they have no intention of ever buying a horse. This behavior is really common.

Tinknal, seriously, shame on you. The horse obviously needs a home and people like you are going to force the seller to dump that poor animal at the auction yard if they can't get an ad run.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

oregon woodsmok said:


> I don't see anything wrong with the ad.
> 
> They would very likely allow you to try the horse out if you sound like you know what you are doing and you are a serious buyer,
> 
> ...


An 11 yo gelding that can't get sold for $200 probably belongs in a kill pen.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

tinknal said:


> An 11 yo gelding that can't get sold for $200 probably belongs in a kill pen.


Maybe it can't get sold because people that don't know a thing about the horse flag the ad because they don' like the way it's worded..... 

Really???? So then maybe we should put down people when they hit 40?

You're the one that broke CL rules.. not the seller..


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I wouldn't have flagged the post (I didn't even notice that Tinknal said he did) but I doubt it mattered much since even at $200 it's unlikely that the seller's phone was ringing off the hook. 

The red flags on this ad *Needs desensitizing/tuneup (not ridden all winter). Needs his own person. No test rides. Price reflects this.
Good home, in a dedicated & knowledgeable home a must. He needs to gain alittle weight- hooves/dewormed last month. Cheap 4H prospect.* tell me there is something wrong with the horse. 

Even decent horses are cheap now and a bit more shopping could find one that can actually be ridden to see it's level of training. This is the type of horse that is common in kill pens- if the owner wanted to sell him to a good home they would need to put a little time on him and get him going smoothly under saddle before advertising him for sale.


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## malinda (May 12, 2002)

I also don't see why someone would flag this post. The horse world is full of people who own horses but hardly ever ride them. This horse may be good, he may be rotten. An experienced rider/trainer can choose for themselves - probably after seeing the owners handle him.

At least the asking price is somewhat reasonable (not like $2000), and they probably would take less if a buyer who showed some horsemanship skills made an offer.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

I have 6 horses, 4 of them are broke, two have never had a saddle on their back. The 4 that are broke (2 mares and 2 geldings(one was my breeding stallion) The two geldings were previously shown in the walking horse circuit, the two mares were broodmares. The unbroke are both mares 1 used for a broodmare and the other just a lawn ornament. I raised all of them except 1 from a baby and I got her as a coming 2 yr old. Ages range from 5 to 14

I don't ride and DH hasn't rode in years....but it doesn't mean these horses deserve to go to the "kill pen" These are well bred, good horses with great minds. I have taken care of my stallion since the day he was born until I gelded him at 9 years old he is now 11. And I am a woman..lol They have just been lawn ornaments for a long time as least 6 yrs or more.

I would love to give a couple of the mares to a good home for free only because it is getting harder physically to take care of all them and they still have a lot of good years left.

But things like this is why I continue to keep all of them because of the mentality that some have...

edited to add, I gave away to a couple in NY about 4 or 5 yrs ago a mare that was 5 yrs old never been broke, had never left the property until the day she left with them.... within 6 month they strated trail riding her all over the US bitless and shoeless. They absolutely love her~ You dont have to have an experience horse ......what you have to have is a rider who is experienced. And even sometimes those who are experience riders/trainers dont have a clue~


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I live in the real world where for $1000 (or less if I really look) I can buy a decently broke trail horse- why would I pay anything for a horse that I have to either send out for training or go through the bother of working myself? 

If you want to make absolutely certain your horse is well taken care of don't sell it.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> I live in the real world where for $1000 (or less if I really look) I can buy a decently broke trail horse- why would I pay anything for a horse that I have to either send out for training or go through the bother of working myself?
> 
> If you want to make absolutely certain your horse is well taken care of don't sell it.


Good for you....not everyone wants a broke trail horse, some like a challenge, some like to start them themselves and just like with my mares...there are those that still like to breed. I have sold through the years and I have given away through the years...what difference does it make. 

I have seen the best broke trail horse turn into a nightmare when changed to different locations/owners. 

If the person who did the ad wants to list it the way he did(and it is not breaking any rules).....what the heck difference does it make to anyone but those who answer the ad and the person selling. That is what is wrong with the people in this country now days...people cant mind their own business...always worrying or critizing what someone else is doing or not doing...


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

countryfied2011 said:


> Good for you....not everyone wants a broke trail horse, some like a challenge, some like to start them themselves and just like with my mares...there are those that still like to breed. I have sold through the years and I have given away through the years...what difference does it make.
> 
> I have seen the best broke trail horse turn into a nightmare when changed to different locations/owners.
> 
> If the person who did the ad wants to list it the way he did(and it is not breaking any rules).....what the heck difference does it make to anyone but those who answer the ad and the person selling. That is what is wrong with the people in this country now days...people cant mind their own business...always worrying or critizing what someone else is doing or not doing...


I clearly stated I wouldn't have flagged the ad. When someone posts an ad on a public site I believe they can expect opinion... I gave mine. 

".....what the heck difference does it make to anyone but those who answer the ad and the person selling. That is what is wrong with the people in this country now days...people cant mind their own business...always worrying or critizing what someone else is doing or not doing..." Why are you criticizing my post/opinion? Isn't that the same thing you're chastising me for?


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

> ".....what the heck difference does it make to anyone but those who answer the ad and the person selling. That is what is wrong with the people in this country now days...people cant mind their own business...always worrying or critizing what someone else is doing or not doing..." Why are you criticizing my post/opinion? Isn't that the same thing you're chastising me for?


It was a general statement...not geared to you specifically..sorry~I thought skipping a line from the rest of the context would clarify my posting.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

> An 11 yo gelding that can't get sold for $200 probably belongs in a kill pen.


I have thought about this statement all day and the fact that the seller was tagged.....so I just have to respond again...:grin:

Tinknal, have you seen the horse in person to pass judgement on it? 

Did it ever occur to you or anyone else that just maybe someone might be looking for a horse to be a companion to another horse or any type of livestock and not want to put the dollars into a lawn ornament or companion as far as the buying price. That they might not care if they test drive it or whether it was 4H proof. The fact of the matter is by you flagging, you took away another person's individual right to decide for themselves, because you decided you knew what is best for someone else or that someone else was dishonest(have you ever met the person?). And you also took away the prospect of the horse living out his days in the life of leisure.

Just maybe the person only wanted the cost farrier/worming etc thats why they were charging 200.00. For the life of me i dont understand why people think if something is free or cheap there is a motive behind it.. 

By the way....I had a criteria when I sold horses or gave them away...and if the rider or purchaser didn't meet my criteria I wouldnt let my horses go. They had to at least spend a few days with my horses and I had to spend a couple of days with the person. I dont just let my horses go to anyone....so it works both ways. I have seen some owners/riders that needed to go to the kill pen in my 15 yrs of owning


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## Fetherhd (Aug 16, 2012)

tinknal said:


> An 11 yo gelding that can't get sold for $200 probably belongs in a kill pen.


You have got to be kidding me...both of my horses were FREE because the people could not sell them due to the economy. One was an unbroke 18 month old filly...one was a WELL trained broke REGISTERED paint mare NEITHER belonged in a kill pen because they were CHEAP. Without having seen the horse you cannot make that assumption. Seems to me that the fellow was pretty honest about the horse in his ad.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Fetherhd said:


> You have got to be kidding me...both of my horses were FREE because the people could not sell them due to the economy. One was an unbroke 18 month old filly...one was a WELL trained broke REGISTERED paint mare NEITHER belonged in a kill pen because they were CHEAP. Without having seen the horse you cannot make that assumption. Seems to me that the fellow was pretty honest about the horse in his ad.


And I didn't say your horses belonged in a kill pen. You assume much. Totally apples/oranges situation.

Nothing better than an unbroke horse, it means it hasn't been screwed up. Nothing worse than a "broke" horse who's owner won't prove it.

A $200 horse is the most expensive horse in the world if it puts you in the hospital, or worse. I've seen too much. Too many little girls killed by bad horses. Too many people crippled. Until you have bought as many horses out of kill pens and rehabbed them and sold them into loving homes as I have you really can say nothing worthy of my attention on this subject.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

> A $200 horse is the most expensive horse in the world if it puts you in the hospital, or worse. I've seen too much. Too many little girls killed by bad horses. Too many people crippled.


And a good broke horse cant? Whatever...


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

countryfied2011 said:


> And a good broke horse cant? Whatever...


Which horse is more _likely_ to hurt you- an untrained or a well trained horse? There are no absolutes with horses and anyone with even a little experience knows it. 

No one is saying kill pen horses are "bad" and it may not be their "fault" but they are there for a reason. Some will work out and become productive horses others will not.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

> Which horse is more likely to hurt you- an untrained or a well trained horse? There are no absolutes with horses and anyone with even a little experience knows it.



I hear more stories from people who get hurt on their broke horse than I do of those that got hurt from an untrained horse...as a matter of fact didn't someone just get thrown twice I think the other day on this board..? 

At least with an untrained horse you know what to expect...one that is supposedly broke to ride....you have no idea how the owner trained it or what he did to it before you took your test ride..you get it home and bam you have a disaster waiting to happen. How many of you got a horse home only to realize it wasnt exactly has you had it expected it to be and you had to do some round pening, retrain it..

No sense going around in circles...we all feel differently about the subject--to each to their own. I still think Tinknal was wrong..lol

Night~


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

countryfied2011 said:


> I hear more stories from people who get hurt on their broke horse than I do of those that got hurt from an untrained horse...as a matter of fact didn't someone just get thrown twice I think the other day on this board..?
> 
> At least with an untrained horse you know what to expect...one that is supposedly broke to ride....you have no idea how the owner trained it or what he did to it before you took your test ride..you get it home and bam you have a disaster waiting to happen. How many of you got a horse home only to realize it wasnt exactly has you had it expected it to be and you had to do some round pening, retrain it..
> 
> ...


You really believe you're more likely to get hurt with a well trained horse? Really? Well, OK then...


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## hilarybennett (Mar 4, 2013)

padding the corners for people you presume ignorant is not a good enough reason to flag someone's ad that does not violate terms of use for craigslist. OP, did you ever contact the ad poster themselves, express your concern, and suggest different wording? Flagging is for the faint of heart, especially for someone that did not violate TOS


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> You really believe you're more likely to get hurt with a well trained horse? Really? Well, OK then...



"Well trained" is in the eye of the beholder and according to experience of the rider...and besides you changed my wording to fit your belief...i didnt say that. I said I have heard more stories...

But whatever..not going to argue with you. Peace Out~

Edited to add IP, all my were untrained at one time....I raised them :icecream:


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> No one is saying kill pen horses are "bad" and it may not be their "fault" but they are there for a reason. Some will work out and become productive horses others will not.


Oh how true! I've seen both ends of that spectrum, from rock solid horses with minor man-made problems to stone cold killers. The worst was one with a similar owners to the one in the OP. Beautiful QH/TB that the owner said was trained to death but ran through the ring loose. Never again, some horses are just poorly trained, this one wanted to kill you.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

countryfied2011 said:


> "Well trained" is in the eye of the beholder and according to experience of the rider...and besides you changed my wording to fit your belief...i didnt say that. I said I have heard more stories...
> 
> But whatever..not going to argue with you. Peace Out~
> 
> Edited to add IP, all my were untrained at one time....I raised them :icecream:


It was a direct quote of your post I never touched it. 

There is a VAST difference between raising your own and taking in a untrained or ill trained horse from an auction kill pen or a CL ad you do realize that, right?

You've heard stories and I've been there.  From age 12 on I worked for a woman that bought her hack line horses mostly out of the kill pen at a local auction and from local newspaper ads. This was in the mid 70s, she'd point out a horse and one of the kids would wade through the horses and get hands on the horse she pointed to most times that was enough to know that it had been at least handled, wouldn't try to attack (some will) and we'd check for obvious illness/injury. If the horse seemed decent, and you were feeling brave that day, you'd hop on bareback and without a bridle just to see what happened. Based on the outcome she'd either buy it or it went to Canada. There are probably child labor or safety laws against that now but I learned how to judge a horse's temperament and training from a distance. 

On a separate note, and if I may ask- how old are you?


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

First off the ad never said anything about a WELL trained horse...it said BROKE...that can be anything from being broke to lead,,, to broke to ride..."Broke" is a matter of perception..meaning what is broke to one, may not be broke to another person. Somehow you have turned the whole thing into a Well Trained Horse. 

I really don't care what your experience is it is irrelevant to the ad...and I have no opinion about a kill-pen one way or the other...OTOH, I did disagreed on Tinknal's statement saying the horse needed *to go just based on reading an ad..that is my opinion*, which you state previously it is a public site

I gave my opinions...and I am not going to continue to defend to you how I feel....I don't have to and it is a waste of time

So I will agree to disagree and leave it at that..

As far as my age, I am 57, I have bred and raised,show, sold , gave away and whatever else I wanted to do with walking horses for 15 yrs....that too is insignificant to the original post..

Have a great day~


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## Fetherhd (Aug 16, 2012)

tinknal said:


> And I didn't say your horses belonged in a kill pen. You assume much. Totally apples/oranges situation.
> 
> Nothing better than an unbroke horse, it means it hasn't been screwed up. Nothing worse than a "broke" horse who's owner won't prove it.
> 
> A $200 horse is the most expensive horse in the world if it puts you in the hospital, or worse. I've seen too much. Too many little girls killed by bad horses. Too many people crippled. Until you have bought as many horses out of kill pens and rehabbed them and sold them into loving homes as I have you really can say nothing worthy of my attention on this subject.


Yes and the point that I am making is that YOU had no right to make the buyers/sellers decision for them by arbitrarily flagging the ad. YOU did not go and see the horse...YOU did not directly talk to the seller. I have had many horses in my life...some were free...some were very expensive...some had ads just like this...to make the statement that the horse belongs in the kill pen just because he has a low price tag...and because he is not what YOU think a horse should be...is a bit arrogant. AND to assume you know how many horses I have and a have not had is supremely arrogant. Get off of your high horse! There are probably many experienced horse people that could take this horse and in a few months make a decent animal out of him. If they get hurt in the process well. That is their choice...not yours...there was nothing wrong with that ad.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Dang. There are some wound up people over a flagged ad that was never actually deleted and didn't have anything to do with them to begin with. I checked just now and it's still there. 

Horses are cheap for a reason- lack of training, price/scarcity of feed, the economy, the slaughter ban, all of the above is often true as well. 

When a person posts an ad on Craigslist, Dreamhorse, Equine.com etc. they are opening themselves and their stock to judgment and/or criticism- that's just the way it is in the real world.


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## Kazahleenah (Nov 3, 2004)

Did I miss something? Why flag this? Would you rather he be kept at a place that can't afford to feed him properly and apparently has no time to ride him? I can even kind of understand the no test ride bit. If he's prone to be spunky, and someone got hurt, these days they could end up owning that seller's whole farm. 

Guess I'm just not so.... quick to raise a stink. Don't like the terms? Then don't buy the horse. Easy peasy. :shrug:


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I'm not sure if the ad should have been flagged or not but I will say that the tinknal is consisten in his belief. He has always been emphatic about equine safety and he has always been pretty clear on his thoughts about horses being potentially dangerous. I feel much the same way and really don't feel that a horse that needs a refresher and groceries is a good candidate for a kid and by suggesting that the horse is a 4H prospect may lead an uninformed buyer to believe that it is perfectly safe and sane. 

We have had members drop by from time to time asking what to do with the sold as sane psychotic mess they bought without trying it out and I can't think of any of them that ended well.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

tinknal said:


> I flagged the ad because the seller made implications that the horse had at least some training but refuses to let the buyer confirm if this is so. If not actually dishonest it at least smacks of dishonesty.


How does this violate CL's terms of service? It may well be impossible for the seller to prove the horse had some training. What if the seller did it himself? What if a friend did some training but doesn't want to be bothered? What if the trainer moved out of the area or died? Proving a horse has received some training can be difficult in some situations.

The seller sounds pretty honest to me. Basically he's saying, "Buyer beware."


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Joshie said:


> How does this violate CL's terms of service? It may well be impossible for the seller to prove the horse had some training. What if the seller did it himself? What if a friend did some training but doesn't want to be bothered? What if the trainer moved out of the area or died?* Proving a horse has received some training can be difficult in some situations.*


Bolding mine. It's actually very simple to prove a horse has training- you _ride_ it or at least watch it being rode. If the owner was worried about liability why didn't he offer to ride it to prove training? 

The owner should have actually put some time on the horse under saddle so it had a snowball's chance of being sold to a decent home. If the horse even had some basic training it wouldn't have taken long to give it a tune up.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

The owner is offering it at a very low price to try to sell it as is. Kind of like selling a car as is rather than doing any repairs. Maybe he doesn't have the time or knowledge to tune up the horse. For all you know, he is screening people who are interested to make sure he doesn't go to the wrong person. 

I also don't see where he violated any CL terms of use. He did not lie as far as you know. If you are worried about people buying it, post a warning on horse buying rather than flagging a post so the guy can't sell the horse.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Why pay for an untrained/barely trained as-is horse when people are *giving* them away? 

This is the type of ad that is followed by: "If this horse isn't sold by XX it will be taken to the sale." Where said horse will end up in the kill pen because it can't be ridden in the ring.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I just saw this Want Ad on our local horse board.




> I am looking for cheap or unwanted horses must have reg papers please to easy for somone to lie about age of horse unless you can prove age halter broke green broke or something that* just needs a refresher course * nothing thats really old please just* looking for a couple project horses for the summer*.+++ +++ ++++ please send pic


 So There ARE some that WANT to get horses like was in the CL ad. And to flag something like that that people actually Want is not really the best thing to do IMO.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

arabian knight said:


> I just saw this Want Ad on our local horse board.
> 
> So There ARE some that WANT to get horses like was in the CL ad. And to flag something like that that people actually Want is not really the best thing to do IMO.


Sigh. I guess I'm not making myself understood so I'll just give up. 

That ad you indicated AK- they just might be gathering a load to take to Canada. Just sayin'.  It's done around here all the time because it's just a 3-4 hour drive to the border. Plus "unwanted" is a euphemism for free.


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## Elsbet (Apr 2, 2009)

Our horse was a free CL find with similar issues in the post- we felt thrilled to find a horse like this. She's a good girl for what we wanted. We don't ride her much. We are working with her to carry pannier baskets, pull light loads, etc. She's a good girl, but a little too spunky to let my daughter ride off lead until after she's been worked for a while. We were not offered the option of a test ride- they were concerned about the fact she hadn't been ridden in quite some time. (She's a very tall Shetland mix, her family outgrew her) She likes to brush people off her back, and buck a little, but she's content to work and knows some verbal commands for working in harness. She's had training- it was obvious when we looked at her- she stands well for farrier work, isn't a biter or a kicker, and is just a great little buddy to have around (she and my husband have developed a sweet bond). There are so many different needs and uses for horses, and too many out there in bad situations where people can't afford them anymore. I've seen some that people have been desperately trying to sell, and can't. They end up half starved as the people trying to sell them are making decisions between feeding their kids and paying their mortgage, and caring for the horse. 
I like second chances for everyone.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Ya really. 
And just look at all those people that adopt a wild Mustang and train them in less then 100 days to compete in a horse show, once a year this is done, then the horse goes up for auction.~!


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> Bolding mine. It's actually very simple to prove a horse has training- you _ride_ it or at least watch it being rode. If the owner was worried about liability why didn't he offer to ride it to prove training?
> 
> The owner should have actually put some time on the horse under saddle so it had a snowball's chance of being sold to a decent home. If the horse even had some basic training it wouldn't have taken long to give it a tune up.


Maybe the owner cannot ride, is pregnant, injured, or the horse hasn't been ridden in such a long time the owner is no longer comfortable riding it. What if a previous owner had the horse trained? 

For example, we've kept our neighbor's horse at our place since Joshie's companion died. He's a very well trained former rodeo horse. Even so, he kind of scares me. There's nothing wrong with him and we've never had even a tiny bit of a problem but I wouldn't get up and ride him in front of a prospective buyer. Joshie is DD's horse. If we decided to sell Josh and a prospective buyer came when she was at school I would ride him. I don't go fast on any horse and wouldn't be willing to demonstrate that. Joshua is perfectly capable and well trained but I don't go fast. I don't like it and I won't do it.

A friend of mine purchased a horse at auction to train and sell. The horse hated my friend and she couldn't get on it. My friend's friend got the horse to rideable condition. The horse never let my friend get very near her. She never was able to ride the mare and wasn't always dependable with her friend. When my friend took the mare back to auction, her friend was able to ride standing on the mare all day. The mare was sold and put into a breeding program as soon as she got to her new home. 

It can be difficult to prove training in some circumstances and sometimes it can appear a horse is better trained than it is. 




Irish Pixie said:


> Sigh. I guess I'm not making myself understood so I'll just give up.
> 
> That ad you indicated AK- they just might be gathering a load to take to Canada. Just sayin'.  It's done around here all the time because it's just a 3-4 hour drive to the border. Plus "unwanted" is a euphemism for free.


I missed the mention of AK on Arabian's ad. Just because some people might take horses to Canada it doesn't mean that they all are. Maybe the person with the ad wants to train horses to prevent them from going to some place like Canada. Why does a horse need registration papers to be sent to slaughter?

Just went through my local craigslist. Didn't find anything less than $500. The most expensive horse cost $4500. He is a fancy APHA stud being sold by somebody getting out of breeding. This boy is 11 years old and had 90 days put on him as a two year old.






Irish Pixie said:


> Why pay for an untrained/barely trained as-is horse when people are *giving* them away?
> 
> This is the type of ad that is followed by: "If this horse isn't sold by XX it will be taken to the sale." Where said horse will end up in the kill pen because it can't be ridden in the ring.



Horses aren't being given away everywhere. The only free horse I've seen was a beautiful, well bred mare who could never be bred or ridden due to an injury. I've seen plenty of grade youngsters offered in the $800 range. I don't know that they're selling but I do know they're being offered for that. 

I've never seen an ad saying that if a horse hasn't been sold by a certain date it'll be taken to a sale. I'm not sure that going to a sale is all that terrible a thing in our area. I'd think it'd be way too expensive to transport them to Canada or Mexico from central IL.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Sigh. Each time I try to get out they suck me back in... 

Joshie- do you think the owner has a cousin, a brother, a good friend that could ride the horse? Someone, anyone that could show the horse has some kind of training? If I truly wanted a horse to go to a good home I'd either put some time on it or have someone do it. Don't you think that would be a good idea? 

Free horses in Illinois: 

http://www.equine.com/horses-for-sale/search-results.html?ltid=0&state_ids=13&region_ids=13&free=1

http://www.equinenow.com/browse-ssf-Illinois-tlf-free.htm

http://www.horseclicks.com/illinois/C/horses-for-sale?sstr=free (not all are free on this link)

Not to mention at least a dozen rescues come on the search "Illinois free horse" on Google. I suggest opening your search to include surrounding states and you'll find even more. Plus just asking around at the local feed store will offer leads to free horses as well. I'm offered them at least every couple of months. 

The AK was short for "Arabian Knight" I believe he's in WI which is near the border. And I see the ads with "will send to sale ALL the time" being near a couple auctions that the kill buyers frequent. I guess it's to make people feel bad.

Seeing how the ad is still up the seller still has the horse or hasn't taken down the ad- either way his phone isn't ringing off the hook. So I'm assuming (I know the old adage) I'm not the only one that thought the horse was resistible. 

I just don't buy the idea that every horse is something special. There are horses that need to go to slaughter (or be put down) due to soundness/sickness, lack of training, and behavioral issues among other things. There is simply a glut of horses and they have to go somewhere... My daughters understood when they were 10 so it's just not that hard to understand.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Elsbet said:


> Our horse was a free CL find with similar issues in the post- we felt thrilled to find a horse like this. She's a good girl for what we wanted. We don't ride her much. We are working with her to carry pannier baskets, pull light loads, etc. She's a good girl, but a little too spunky to let my daughter ride off lead until after she's been worked for a while. We were not offered the option of a test ride- they were concerned about the fact she hadn't been ridden in quite some time. (She's a very tall Shetland mix, her family outgrew her) She likes to brush people off her back, and buck a little, but she's content to work and knows some verbal commands for working in harness. She's had training- it was obvious when we looked at her- she stands well for farrier work, isn't a biter or a kicker, and is just a great little buddy to have around (she and my husband have developed a sweet bond). There are so many different needs and uses for horses, and too many out there in bad situations where people can't afford them anymore. I've seen some that people have been desperately trying to sell, and can't. They end up half starved as the people trying to sell them are making decisions between feeding their kids and paying their mortgage, and caring for the horse.
> I like second chances for everyone.


I'm truly glad she is what you needed but there's a reason she was free, correct? I'm glad you were able to give her a second chance too.

If the slaughter ban had never been put in place we wouldn't have the horrible neglect that we do now. The unwanted horses need to go somewhere...


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Interestingly enough, this whole arguement is over nothing more than opinions and opinions are like armpits. Everybody has them. 

In relationship to the intial discussion, tinknal is pretty firm on his opinion that unproven horses should not be sold as trained and I'm sure a person can come up with some incidents where people have found good deals or untrained horses that suited them, the reality is that every horse owner will agree that the best way to buy a horse is to try it out and see if it suits your needs..


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## malinda (May 12, 2002)

Irish Pixie,

I don't live too far from Arabian Knight (north central WI) and the Canadian border is still about 8 hours away from us. I have not heard of anyone local who is making trips to Canadian slaughter houses.

I agree that a seller should prove the horse is rideable if they tell you it is trained. Otherwise it is worth the "unbroke" price.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I don't want to rain on anybody's parade but not that many horses are shipped up here for slaughter. 

For starters, slaughter prices aren't that high right now and the industry offer any rewards or bonuses for hauling great distances and even if the rather low slaughter prices weren't an issue, they're still live animals being shipped into the country and moving live animals across the Canadian or US border is an expensive, time consuming pain in the back pockets and the problem compounds as the size of the load increases because they inspectors reject the load not the single animal.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I know there are still kill buyers running at least once a week from New Holland, PA (they still have a decent sized weekly auction) and that's a 7 hour drive to Niagara Falls, NY.

Added: Granted that's much lower than it's been in past years- I personally knew 4 people that ran trailers to Canada just in my area.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> Why pay for an untrained/barely trained as-is horse when people are *giving* them away?
> 
> This is the type of ad that is followed by: "If this horse isn't sold by XX it will be taken to the sale." Where said horse will end up in the kill pen because it can't be ridden in the ring.


Neither of your arguments makes it a flaggable posting. It's really none of your business how much or little he asks or if he will or won't allow it to be ridden at his place. And if he is the type to take the horse to a sale if it doesn't sell, how is flagging the ad going to help the horse?


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## Elsbet (Apr 2, 2009)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm truly glad she is what you needed but there's a reason she was free, correct? I'm glad you were able to give her a second chance too.
> 
> If the slaughter ban had never been put in place we wouldn't have the horrible neglect that we do now. The unwanted horses need to go somewhere...


Exactly. Her problem was she is short, saucy, needs to work, and hasn't been ridden in ages. 
I agree 100% about the slaughter ban. I'm pro-slaughter, which makes a lot of people think I'm mean and coldhearted. In truth, I'm made sick when I see horses that look like toast racks going to rescues around here. It would be better if they had been sold for slaughter then to be left in poor conditions. I got kind of mad when I saw a CL ad the other day for a horse for sale. Pretty little stud, but he wasn't of any particular breed I could make out and none was listed- just light boned and tiny. The people stated that they "bought him to breed to their mare." Once the job was done "We don't need him anymore." He's up for about $100. Sucky reason to BUY a horse. If my mare gets bred, it will be to a *chosen* Vanner to work up some nice small work horses for the farm- we'd like to imprint foals at birth to build super solid trust for a working team, and we've got something very specific we want in a horse. But I don't need to buy a Vanner stud to have her bred to one. $500 cover on non-Vanner mares locally. Ok- that was an OT rabbit trail. I apologize.

Basically, what I'm saying is the opportunity for second chances are pretty sweet when they come along. So even though I get mad at some posts I see on CL, there are often hidden treasures in there, and are pretty fun to find. So I don't flag (usually- I do flag when people are trying to sell 4 week old puppies TODAY... argh). Besides, as in the case I mentioned above, I figure that poor stud deserves a better home than he has, if they want to just get rid of him after breeding.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Irish, I didn't say there weren't any free horses in IL. I said I hadn't seen any advertised locally, especially on craigslist. I don't have anybody to come ride my horses to show they have had training. DH doesn't ride, our horse trainer lives an hour away, and the rodeo guy next door is never home. 

There is always a reason to sell a horse at a certain price or to give one away. Somebody I met online gave me a horse after we'd known each other for a couple of years. To this day, we have never met in person. Anyway, she gave me a breeding stock APHA. She purchased him in utero. He was four or five when I got him. Her reasons for giving him to me for free had not one thing to do with him. She gave him to me because: she was laid off, she lives in KY and nobody seemed to want a Paint, she knew we wanted another horse, she wanted to keep her other horses, and she didn't like anybody who had expressed any interest in him.

I don't see that the ad suggests the horse has had much training. They say it hasn't been ridden in a while and needs a tuneup and desensitizing. I don't see any threats to sell it at auction or anything inappropriate. I surely don't see any reason to report the post.

CL must think the ad is OK since it's still there. 

http://stcloud.craigslist.org/grd/3700340388.html


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

I bet they would probably just give the horse away to the right people but they put a low price on it to keep it from going to slaughter.

People around here pick up horses for free and sell them to slaughter and make a profit.

You really never know anyone's true intentions until you ask them and find out before you judge them...


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Joshie said:


> Irish, I didn't say there weren't any free horses in IL. I said I hadn't seen any advertised locally, especially on craigslist. I don't have anybody to come ride my horses to show they have had training. DH doesn't ride, our horse trainer lives an hour away, and the rodeo guy next door is never home.
> 
> There is always a reason to sell a horse at a certain price or to give one away. Somebody I met online gave me a horse after we'd known each other for a couple of years. To this day, we have never met in person. Anyway, she gave me a breeding stock APHA. She purchased him in utero. He was four or five when I got him. Her reasons for giving him to me for free had not one thing to do with him. She gave him to me because: she was laid off, she lives in KY and nobody seemed to want a Paint, she knew we wanted another horse, she wanted to keep her other horses, and she didn't like anybody who had expressed any interest in him.
> 
> ...


Sigh. *First I said I wouldn't have flagged the ad and never indicated that I agreed that it should have been. *I do understand why Tinknal felt the need to flag it. Second I've said all along that this should have been a free horse. Third I said prior "Seeing how the ad is still up the seller still has the horse or hasn't taken down the ad- either way his phone isn't ringing off the hook. So I'm assuming (I know the old adage) I'm not the only one that thought the horse was resistible." Fourth If you read carefully I indicated that an ad such as the one that Tinknal pointed out on Craigslist would be followed by a "sending to the sale by XX if not sold ad" *IN MY AREA*. 

I hope I made my points perfectly clear for everyone this time.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

DaniR1968 said:


> Neither of your arguments makes it a flaggable posting. It's really none of your business how much or little he asks or if he will or won't allow it to be ridden at his place. And if he is the type to take the horse to a sale if it doesn't sell, how is flagging the ad going to help the horse?


Please point out the post where I said the ad should be flagged.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

shanzone2001 said:


> I bet they would probably just give the horse away to the right people but they put a low price on it to keep it from going to slaughter.
> 
> People around here pick up horses for free and sell them to slaughter and make a profit.
> 
> You really never know anyone's true intentions until you ask them and find out before you judge them...


I'm glad there are people willing to make a profit by shipping unwanted horses- more horses shipped means less neglect. It will be easier and more profitable once more processing plants open in the US.


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## hilarybennett (Mar 4, 2013)

This whole thread makes me sad on many levels.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

hilarybennett said:


> This whole thread makes me sad on many levels.


Why is that?


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## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

I guess I should have specified in my first reply that no way no how would* I * ever go to look at this horse, just like I wouldn't buy a car without test driving it, and just take someone's word that "it ran fine last year". I did that once too and my $300 car ended up costing me over $4000 before it could pass inspection. Doesn't mean that horse should end up in a kill pen or that it's a dangerous horse, the add just makes it sound fishy. After having worked 6 months for a very shady horse sales barn and seeing some of the bull$*** that comes out of some people's mouths when they are trying to sell horses, when I see an add like this I immediately think dishonest seller. But maybe that is my misjudgement, maybe this seller is better than that. I've just seen people outright lie about horses to sell them, and saying that a horse is a good 4h prospect but no test rides allowed is a red flag for me. I have been misled, and seen others misled too many times to fall for a cheap price tag without fully evaluating the horse, under saddle and on the ground, physically and mentally, before loading it onto a trailer and taking it away. 

I think it's unlikely that a horse like this will sell to a knowledgeable horse person with the experience to reschool him. From my experience, it's more likely that a 4h mom who doesn't know the first thing about horses will buy him for her 12 year old girl thinking she is making a dream come true. And it makes me cringe to see a knowledgable but dishonest seller allow that to happen, knowing darn well that it's dangerous and not a good match. 

Again, maybe this seller is not like that, maybe this is bad judgement on my part. I've just seen it happen too many times, and I wish it didn't.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

TroutRiver said:


> I guess I should have specified in my first reply that no way no how would* I *ever go to look at this horse, just like I wouldn't buy a car without test driving it, and just take someone's word that "it ran fine last year". I did that once too and my $300 car ended up costing my over $4000 before it could pass inspection. Doesn't mean that horse should end up in a kill pen or that it's a dangerous horse, the add just makes it sound fishy. After having worked 6 months for a very shady horse sales barn and seeing some of the bull$*** that comes out of some people's mouths when they are trying to sell horses, when I see an add like this I immediately think dishonest seller. But maybe that is my misjudgement, maybe this seller is better than that. I've just seen people outright lie about horses to sell them, and saying that a horse is a good 4h prospect but no test rides allowed is a red flag for me. I have been misled, and seen others misled too many times to fall for a cheap price tag without fully evaluating the horse, under saddle and on the ground, physically and mentally, before loading it onto a trailer and taking it away.
> 
> I think it's unlikely that a horse like this will sell to a knowledgeable horse person with the experience to reschool him. From my experience, it's more likely that a 4h mom who doesn't know the first thing about horses will buy him for her 12 year old girl thinking she is making a dream come true. And it makes me cringe to see a knowledgable but dishonest seller allow that to happen, knowing darn well that it's dangerous and not a good match.
> 
> Again, maybe this seller is not like that, maybe this is bad judgement on my part. I've just seen it happen too many times, and I wish it didn't.


This pretty much sums up my experience as well- sad but very true and it happens all the time.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

hilarybennett said:


> This whole thread makes me sad on many levels.


Then you probably want to limit your time on this board, the goat board and definitely GC or you'll be very sad a lot. People who are passionate about their interests frequently argue and have dust ups. Try the Chronicle board for a good comparison. We will all seem very peace and love by comparison.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

TroutRiver said:


> I . From my experience, it's more likely that a 4h mom who doesn't know the first thing about horses will buy him for her 12 year old girl thinking she is making a dream come true.


Nobody has seen this horse. Everybody is just making up all sorts of wild stuff about it and has no idea. Maybe the horse is difficult, maybe the horse was started as a 2 year old and then put out in the pasture for a couple of years, but is perfectly nice natured.

There is no way to even guess without going out to the farm, putting a halter on the horse and getting hands on it.

If some 4H mom buys an questionable $200 horse sight unseen, with no knowledge about horses, then that is Darwinism at work. Maybe that mom is too stupid to be allowed to reproduce.

By the way, I have sold a very nice horse that was started a s a 2 year old and then turned out to pasture to a 4H kid. The horse was extremely kind-natured, loved the company of people, was very aware of where his feet were, had a history of adjusting his body to prevent his rider from falling. The child was able to convince me that she was pretty darn knowledgeable. It was love at first sight and I had no qualms at all about the child getting hurt.

The horse had been well started with 2 years of proper ground work and then I injured a hip and could not ride after the horse had half a dozen saddles.

So, Tinknel and some of the others of you would not permit me to advertise that horse? He should have gone to slaughter because my hip went out and I couldn't finish him?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I've bought and sold a lot of horses over the years and certain words always stand out to me. 'Needs a tune-up' usually means, 'I can't handle the horse but maybe you can.' 'Prospect' actually means the horse doesn't know anything but with a bit of time and money, somebody might be able to turn into a good horse and generally, when someone mentions that their horse is suitable for 4H, they are implying that the horse is safe and sane enough for a young rider and not expected to cause any problems.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/grd/3726485984.html


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

haypoint said:


> http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/grd/3726485984.html


Contrast this ad with the original in this thread. This owner is trying to sell started green broke horses and detailed what was and is being done with them plus provided a picture; the first one was trying to sell a what? started? green broke? what? that you'd have to take on faith was broke, no picture, no detail on training. Same price- based on the ads only which horses would you be interested in seeing? Based on the ads alone which seller do you feel is more honest?


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

People are giving away horses right and left up here. In fact, I'm getting a free one soon! I wouldn't take her if it weren't for the fact that my friend has been trimming her feet for many years and knows her owner well and can confirm that she's a good, dead broke trail horse. I'm boarding her with my friend and her daughter is going to start giving me lessons on her as soon as she gets here. Her daughter is getting another horse for free from the same person - one that has been used for barrel racing.

The owner developed health problems and she can't ride the horses and she doesn't want them going to waste.

You can't judge a horse by the price a person puts on it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I've thought about the orignal ad and something that does bother me is that $200 don't have to be $200 horses and it all comes down to marketing. 

If people would take decent pictures and word their ads so they accurately describe the horse they're selling and do a little proof reading, they can honestly get a horse sold for decent money in a poor economy.


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