# we had a set back!!! :(



## jolly rabbit (Apr 30, 2012)

(before i start this, they have never been together unsupervised) 

so our Anatolian pup, 13 months old was doing so well with our young goat, he is very protective, watchful, stays next to the pen(even though he could leave). we have "supervised visits" everyday and of course correction, he wants to play or a little nippy when he gets excite, we tell him no and he leaves the goat alone and lays down or plays with us. we the other day, my wife and I happened to be at work at the same time and the goat got out and i guess got a little roughed up by the pup, few teeth marks and lots of slobber (no real injuries). I feel like we have taken a huge step back, because his behavior went uncorrected for about 6 hours and who knows what that poor goat went through. we have since the goat escaped by bouncing of one corner of the fence to hop over the corresponding side (stupid goat) this happened 2 days in a row. so sad. we are trying to work out the kinks.


----------



## purplequeenvt (Mar 3, 2013)

Why is he not able to live with the goats full time by now? Sounds like he needs more mental stimulation and training. 

My female Pyr was full time, unsupervised with the sheep by the time she was 5 months old (she's now 16 months old) and my male has been with sheep full time since he was born.


----------



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I'm, also, wondering what a 13 month old LGD is doing "outside" the goat pen. Is that dog new to your place? How old was it when it arrived at your place? What was it doing prior to your getting it?

An LGD unsocialized at that age has missed out on a lot it needs to know to be with your goat(s). And it does sound as though it has a lot of energy that is not being used. Does it have a job while it is not with the goats?

I do realize your dog is still in puppy stage wanting to play and has a lot of energy. I doubt your LGD was trying to hurt your goat, just needed something to play with. Does he have a friend to play with?


----------



## jolly rabbit (Apr 30, 2012)

everywhere I have read, your dog cannot be fully trusted to be alone with livestock until 1.5 years or more (he is our only lgd, no other dog to learn from. he has nobody except us and the goat. our plans did not work out with our living situation so we make do with what we have. 1/2 of an acre vs the 6 we were supposed to live on. socializing is slow going because of life curcumstances, he was not with goats until age 16 weeks, then we had a mean buck that like to head butt him and now we have a friendly weather. like i said working out the kinks, any suggestions?


----------



## Mrs_Lewis (May 15, 2014)

I'm a bit confused, is there only one goat?

It is correct that young dogs can't be trusted to act responsibly at all times.
Accidents happen, don't view it as a huge setback, you don't need that mental block.
I do hope he wasn't corrected 6 hours after fact, not meaning to offend, merely asking to make sure we have the full picture.
6-16 weeks is the best time for socialization, yours were within that. 
As for the headbutting buck, I don't know how the puppy responded to the buck being "mean" as you put it, so I cannot comment on that.

Where does the dog sleep?
How long and how frequent are the supervised visits?
What other training are you currently doing with him?

There's help to be had here absolutely, but I also suggest contacting the LGD association or the AS club for additional reassurance.


----------



## jolly rabbit (Apr 30, 2012)

yes one goat, I know it is not ideal, but that is the way it is.
no he was not corrected at all, because we were not there to see it, just the after affects. I was always taught growing up not to punish or correct a dog unless caught in the act, otherwise they won't know what they did wrong.
he responded well to the buck, was a little nippy but we stopped that, now with the 9 week old wether, who is playful it is hard to correct them all the time. THEY BOTH WANT TO PLAY!!! LOL.
the dog sleeps next to the pen, they lay next to each other through the fence typically or with in about 15 feet of the pen. 
visits are everyday, about 20 minutes in the morning during feeding and 45 mins in the afternoon. I work full time and have 8 units in college. time is a rare commodity. my wife and I do basic training with him, here, sit, lay, paw (for cutting nails) and off. we will next be tackling stay. he is eager to please but slow to learn.

thanks for taking time to help out, it is appreciated.


----------



## Mrs_Lewis (May 15, 2014)

Glad to hear there was no belated correction.
I would suggest "heel" before tackling stay, him having to focus on you and look to you for direction makes transitioning into stay easier. It is also a useful tool to keep him calm and relaxed before visitation.

It tends to be easier to train LGDs with older livestock, but like you said it is what it is, so with that in mind I don't think there's much you can do differently at this point in time. 

Allowing them as much time as you can together and keep training him and try to provide varied exercise, he's too young to pull but any activity you can think of really. Can do some tracking, he likely won't be great at it, but that's beside the point.
The objective is to counter frustration from lack of purpose.

I realize that it may seem a tall order to find time to stimulate the dog outside the goat visits you're already struggling to fit in, but with the wether being so young it may be some time before you feel comfortable leaving them unsupervised.

Try to have fun! Worrying and second guessing makes it an awful lot like a chore.
Best of luck.


----------



## jolly rabbit (Apr 30, 2012)

thanks a bunch, we have had a tough go of it honestly, I received what i believe some bad information when we got into the lgd venture, I was told to leave the dog alone, don't play with it, only keep it around the goats. and i feel it has been a struggle, finally we just said we would try our way, he is a love bug, watches and stays with the goat, but also loves his play time in the yard with us. i was told too pretty much turn him into a robot and it didn't work out well. now that we have done some training and the here game (my wife and I on each side of the yard with treats taking turns calling him and giving him commands) he is doing alot better. thanks for the advice i will keep everybody updated. I also appreciate not being judged, we tried to do it right just didn't work out, but we are strong and will work through it.


----------



## ONG2 (Sep 22, 2010)

I suspect both the goat and the dog would be happier if there was another goat.


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Yea, your goat needs a couple of more goats.


----------



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Jolly with an attitude like yours and such willingness to learn and accept constructive criticisms, you can only win...which means, of course, your LGD and your gota will win as well.

I totally agree with others, you need at least one more goat. If it were I, the 2nd goat would be a bit older (like a yearling at least). 

I do understand your making do with what you have and I commend you for your efforts. As mentioned above, your LGD needs some way of using up its energy; and with your only having 1 acre, it probably needs to be some type of agility course simply because that would take up less space. (Your dog ...and goat... would probably love such a thing.) It is a simple matter of your dog learning NOT to use its teeth on your goat; and that will take lots of "together time".


----------



## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

When I was doing research, what feels like decades ago, a lot of people had hiding spots for both young pups and young charges to escape to. I'd think if your goat is small enough you could do that so he can escape the dog if needed.


----------



## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Also with you all sharing the 1 acre (or half acre?) the dog can see you closely, and its a bit artificial to "leave him alone" in that kind of proximity, I think that old school style was more suited to a herd or flock ranging out on acreage with at least a couple of LGDs to band together...

Him and the goat I am guessing are looking to socialize with You guys! Its their nature (dog and goat) they are herd animals-- our wether is super friendly too, next time we go camping he will make a great pack wether as he just wants to do whatever we do...


----------



## Traci Ann (Jun 27, 2005)

Okay, just my 2 cents, but we raise and breed LGDs. I have never told anyone to leave the dog/pup without companionship. We have our goats in a paddock with mama and babies from day one. We spend time with pups, but usually our mama goat does a fine job when she is done. I want my pups well associated with the livestock before they head to their new surroundings. 

We have had ALL sorts of people who buy. Some place pups in from day one with their livestock, others make a paddock and separate until they get to know each other. In the past we even had a one winged goose in with our pups, for his protection, and the pups learning curve. He was an older, at times a bit hostile  kind of goose, and if the pups came after him, he bit them! Taught them to not play with winged things. Sadly Goose Goose passed last winter so we need to get another to raise with our pups.

Young pups, much like young boys, need to burn off stream. As you stated, likely they were playing.

Hoping it goes better and you all can get a bit more land and add some to your crew.


----------

