# Wyoming same sex marriages legal today.



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/wyoming-prepares-legalize-sex-marriage-26336559

And there are churches that will perform the ceremonies.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Guess I just don't see the importance of this issue, marry who you want. It's a contract and if a church or church's approve why get your knickers in a knot, don't go there.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Another in your face moment brought on by the gay community.why is that psi important to have it precast around the world? This is your face has got to stop. I'm gay loo at me I am special ,bull feathers. Letsa get in front of all the cameras and loss, and let the world know we are better we now control the country and can control your way of doing business and control your way of speech and control the rest of the 85% of the USA that was ONCE a Christ Like Country. We can even have disney close the park JUST FOR US. WOW we got the power now.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

arabian knight said:


> Another in your face moment brought on by the gay community.why is that psi important to have it precast around the world? This is your face has got to stop. I'm gay loo at me I am special ,bull feathers. Letsa get in front of all the cameras and loss, and let the world know we are better we now control the country and can control your way of doing business and control your way of speech and control the rest of the 85% of the USA that was ONCE a Christ Like Country. We can even have disney close the park JUST FOR US. WOW we got the power now.


I see heterosexual people getting in front of the cameras every day saying how bad same sex marriage. Equal rights to say it is. Free speech whether you like it or not. The only difference is you get beat up less these days for being gay.


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

May they have peace and happiness.


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

Will they allow outdoor weddings on Brokeback Mountain?


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

MichaelK! said:


> Will they allow outdoor weddings on Brokeback Mountain?


 .............LOL , I can't wait to see an all gay Rodeo.........pink cowboy hats , pink boots , etc . Maybe they'll have an 'All Nekkid' roping contest ! , fordy:banana:


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

You know, I like everyone here but this gay-bashing thing gets old. Do any of you have a friend who is gay? How about a daughter or son who is? They. Are. People. Just like you and I. Some want to get married, some don't - just like straight couples. I feel that if two consenting people are in a committed relationship and want to seal the deal, so be it.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

.............Those who don't accept the tennets of the gay movement will continue to express themselves , and those who want to 'Stop' alternative opinions will continue to call those opinions as Gay bashing , homophobes , etc . I have no plans to change my opinion , regardless of how politically , Incorrect I may be . , fordy


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

p.s. the cowgirls I know, all prefer purple.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

arabian knight said:


> Another in your face moment brought on by the gay community.why is that psi important to have it precast around the world? This is your face has got to stop. I'm gay loo at me I am special ,bull feathers. Letsa get in front of all the cameras and loss, and let the world know we are better we now control the country and can control your way of doing business and control your way of speech and control the rest of the 85% of the USA that was ONCE a Christ Like Country. We can even have disney close the park JUST FOR US. WOW we got the power now.


I have heard it said that one of the reasons Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed was that it was not only the acts of depravity but the total acceptance of it :runforhills: Whether one wants to take the Bible as fact or not it still remains a fact that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed as it has been found and excavated :angel: Also all these things that are happening were predicted to happen are coming to pass with seaming great hurry .Just look at the countries in the East .Israel is totally surrounded and when they defend their self who now is there to take their side ? 

I say God has lifted his protection from this country and Christians are now in the crosshairs to be come extent .Better chose your side wisely :runforhills:


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## harvestmoon1964 (Apr 24, 2014)

fordy said:


> .............LOL , I can't wait to see an all gay Rodeo.........pink cowboy hats , pink boots , etc . Maybe they'll have an 'All Nekkid' roping contest ! , fordy:banana:


Apparently you've never heard of "Tough Enough to Wear Pink"? I have a friend who's a pro bulldogger and his son is a bronc rider. They wear pink in support of breast cancer research. Double dawg dare you to repeat this to them.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

harvestmoon1964 said:


> Apparently you've never heard of "Tough Enough to Wear Pink"? I have a friend who's a pro bulldogger and his son is a bronc rider. They wear pink in support of breast cancer research. Double dawg dare you to repeat this to them.


 ..............My reference was specific............had nothing to do with any other issue that has adopted pink as a color for whatever their cause maybe ! , fordy


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## RubyJane (Apr 23, 2014)

fordy said:


> ..............My reference was specific............had nothing to do with any other issue that has adopted pink as a color for whatever their cause maybe ! , fordy


Why would you associate the color pink with being gay then?


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

http://www.igra.com/ Hmm. Who knew? "Each rodeo has 13 events, ten you&#8217;ll find at most standard rodeos (bull riding, chute-dogging, breakaway roping, barrel racing, etc) and three playful &#8220;camp&#8221; events that give IGRA a fun and unique flare you won&#8217;t find anywhere else. You don&#8217;t have to be gay to compete in the gay rodeo &#8212; IGRA rodeos are open to everyone &#8212; gay, straight, cowboys and city-folk alike. But unlike traditional rodeos, IGRA encourages both women and men to compete in all 13 events &#8212; so in the IGRA you get to see, for instance, women bull riding and men barrel racing. IGRA promotes amateur participation in its rodeos partly by the &#8220;rodeo schools&#8221; it hosts throughout the year so novices can learn first-hand how to rodeo."

I'd go watch it. I don't care who you are, it's not for the weak!

Fordy, you just missed the Ft Worth event October 16 - 19.


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## harvestmoon1964 (Apr 24, 2014)

IMO, this is a triumph given this is the state where the Matthew Shepherd murder happened. Hopefully people in Wyoming are more evolved and more tolerant of people who are different from themselves.


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

Leave pink out of this. I hate pink and hate pink camo even more but, my husband and sons like pink and it looks great on them. Ps. the shirts are from King George himself.  Cowboys like pink too.


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## tiffnzacsmom (Jan 26, 2006)

It will be news until everyone can marry the person that they love. 

As for Soddham and Gomorrah they were destroyed for being inhospitable to guests.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

tiffnzacsmom said:


> As for Soddham and Gomorrah they were destroyed for being inhospitable to guests.


Please show me, book, chapter and verse where it says that.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

http://liberalpreacher.blogspot.com/2006/03/why-god-really-destroyed-sodom-and.html

I don't have my Bible in front of me but this link sums it up? (as you can see, lots of discussion and comments below it as well). I do remember hearing about this before... the issue is in the words and what certain words mean/meant and our interpretation of them... you know, the great apostasy and all that..

(eta, the link states Genesis 19: 4-13).


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

............I define 'Intolerance' by 3 levels of Intensity , (1) those like myself who completely disagree with gay marrige because it distorts traditional marriage and what it stands for ! I will never embarras(sp) a gay person by name calling or berate them , as long as they don't get in my face . Live and let live . (2) Those who participate in antigay protests and employ confrontational public strategies to thwart public gay demonstrations , but never use physical violence against members of the gay community . They get awfully close to the line but don't cross it . (3)Those who exact physical violence on gays and other such groups they hate and cannot accept their movement in any way . Examples would be the KKK , Nazis , etc .
.............Basically , No.1 , is passive acceptance which is where a large percentage of the populas is headed and will become the dominant attitude with the passage of time . , fordy


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Jax-mom said:


> http://liberalpreacher.blogspot.com/2006/03/why-god-really-destroyed-sodom-and.html
> 
> I don't have my Bible in front of me but this link sums it up? (as you can see, lots of discussion and comments below it as well). I do remember hearing about this before... the issue is in the words and what certain words mean/meant and our interpretation of them... you know, the great apostasy and all that..
> 
> (eta, the link states Genesis 19: 4-13).


Here ya go. Just read it in Gen 18 and 19 and see if you can tell me that these cities were destroyed because they did not welcome strangers.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genisis%2018,%2019&version=NIV

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genisis+18,+19&version=KJV


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

fordy said:


> .............LOL , I can't wait to see an all gay Rodeo.........pink cowboy hats , pink boots , etc . Maybe they'll have an 'All Nekkid' roping contest ! , fordy:banana:


The gay rodeos I have been to don't have those things. And those boys are actually darn good rodeo riders.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

painterswife said:


> http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/wyoming-prepares-legalize-sex-marriage-26336559
> 
> And there are churches that will perform the ceremonies.


Way to go Wyoming!!


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Hey possum belly- I posted it as a courtesy only. Let's just say I'm not going there. . My Bible knowledge is sorely lacking. I just thought it was an interesting link to supplement the Bible.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Jax-mom said:


> . My Bible knowledge is sorely lacking. I just thought it was an interesting link to supplement the Bible.


That is obvious. Read and study the Bible for yourself. Don't take my word or anyone's word for what it says. There are all sorts of supplements out there but God's Word is true and will explain itself.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wow. And that was rude.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Possum Belly said:


> Here ya go. Just read it in Gen 18 and 19 and see if you can tell me that these cities were destroyed because they did not welcome strangers.
> 
> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genisis%2018,%2019&version=NIV
> 
> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genisis+18,+19&version=KJV


Looks to me like they gave those men a really big welcome to me :angel:


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## harvestmoon1964 (Apr 24, 2014)

fordy said:


> ............I define 'Intolerance' by 3 levels of Intensity , (1) those like myself who completely disagree with gay marrige because it distorts traditional marriage and what it stands for ! I will never embarras(sp) a gay person by name calling or berate them , as long as they don't get in my face . Live and let live . (2) Those who participate in antigay protests and employ confrontational public strategies to thwart public gay demonstrations , but never use physical violence against members of the gay community . They get awfully close to the line but don't cross it . (3)Those who exact physical violence on gays and other such groups they hate and cannot accept their movement in any way . Examples would be the KKK , Nazis , etc .
> .............Basically , No.1 , is passive acceptance which is where a large percentage of the populas is headed and will become the dominant attitude with the passage of time . , fordy


There is also ACTIVE acceptance by straight people which I, myself try to portray. I vote, donate and try to live accepting people who are different than I am, as long as it's not hurting others and between consenting adults. 

My own personal belief is that heteros have done the most damage to the institution of marriage. If gay folks love someone enough to make that commitment before society and God..more power to them. We need loving commitments in this society. Not people forcing less freedom on everyone else because of their own religious beliefs.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

harvestmoon1964 said:


> There is also ACTIVE acceptance by straight people which I, myself try to portray. I vote, donate and try to live accepting people who are different than I am, as long as it's not hurting others and between consenting adults.
> 
> My own personal belief is that heteros have done the most damage to the institution of marriage. If gay folks love someone enough to make that commitment before society and God..more power to them. We need loving commitments in this society. Not people forcing less freedom on everyone else because of their own religious beliefs.


I'll give them points there it takes guts to make such a commitment before God


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

harvestmoon1964 said:


> There is also ACTIVE acceptance by straight people which I, myself try to portray. I vote, donate and try to live accepting people who are different than I am, as long as it's not hurting others and between consenting adults.
> 
> My own personal belief is that heteros have done the most damage to the institution of marriage. If gay folks love someone enough to make that commitment before society and God..more power to them. We need loving commitments in this society. Not people forcing less freedom on everyone else because of their own religious beliefs.


 ..............Active acceptance means you(generic) have completed the philosophical process of full acceptance and have 'arrived' at the final destination . For many , many objectors , the journey isn't yet complete.......because full acceptance takes time and it cannot be rushed , that is why 'in your face' gay attitudes are very ineffective , in my opinion , and accomplish very little in changing hearts and minds . 
..............And , some heteros are very poor diplomats for conventional marriage and exhibit the worst facets of human nature that destroy families and leave very deep scars on innocent children who spend a lifetime trying to figure out what happened . , fordy


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

Jax-mom said:


> Wow. And that was rude.


Not rude at all. PB was just stating the truth.

And notice PB posted actual Scripture, not a progressive twisting it.


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

Dutchie said:


> Way to go Wyoming!!


More like judicial activism. Wonder what the people of Wyoming think about it.


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

tiffnzacsmom said:


> It will be news until everyone can marry the person that they love.
> 
> As for Soddham and Gomorrah they were destroyed for being inhospitable to guests.


Hmm, including your 40 year old neighbor who wants to marry your 10 year old daughter?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

my3boys said:


> More like judicial activism. Wonder what the people of Wyoming think about it.


Did you notice. I live in Wyoming.


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

Jax-mom said:


> http://liberalpreacher.blogspot.com/2006/03/why-god-really-destroyed-sodom-and.html
> 
> I don't have my Bible in front of me but this link sums it up? (as you can see, lots of discussion and comments below it as well). I do remember hearing about this before... the issue is in the words and what certain words mean/meant and our interpretation of them... you know, the great apostasy and all that..
> 
> (eta, the link states Genesis 19: 4-13).


"Liberal preacher" is more about spouting the progressive agenda than preaching the truth of God's word.


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Did you notice. I live in Wyoming.


Doesn't mean you represent the majority opinion there. 

Even if you did, it is still the acceptance of perversion, an unnatural act God calls an abomination.


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

Sawmill Jim said:


> I have heard it said that one of the reasons Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed was that it was not only the acts of depravity but the total acceptance of it :runforhills: Whether one wants to take the Bible as fact or not it still remains a fact that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed as it has been found and excavated :angel: Also all these things that are happening were predicted to happen are coming to pass with seaming great hurry .Just look at the countries in the East .Israel is totally surrounded and when they defend their self who now is there to take their side ?
> 
> I say God has lifted his protection from this country and Christians are now in the crosshairs to be come extent .Better chose your side wisely :runforhills:


The further we get from God, the more He will continue to lift His hand of protection, that is for sure. And it's going to get a whole lot worse.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

I simply did a search and posted one of the first links I found. I did not originally bring up the topic. Did I say I agreed with the point of view? Did I say I agreed with the link? I even admitted the Bible isn't my strong point. The more I read the more questions I have. 

I believe in a God who is tolerant and loves all. I do not judge which is why I love my friends, gay and straight.

I'm straight but not narrow.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Sodom and Gomorrah: They wanted to _rape_ Lot's guests. That has no more to do with homosexuality than prison rapes do. (And is just as heinous a crime).



> 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom&#8212;both young and old&#8212;surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, &#8220;Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.&#8221; 6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, &#8220;No, my friends. Don&#8217;t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don&#8217;t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.&#8221;


(Though I've never understood why Lot gets a pass for offering his young daughters to the mob)

But that sure doesn't look consensual to me!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Wasnt it Wyoming that started that womens right to vote nonsense too?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

my3boys said:


> Doesn't mean you represent the majority opinion there.
> 
> Even if you did, it is still the acceptance of perversion, an unnatural act God calls an abomination.


Lots of straight people doing lots of things that others think are perverted. I don't need a God to tell me what is right or wrong and God does not make our laws.


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

my3boys said:


> Not rude at all. PB was just stating the truth.
> 
> And notice PB posted actual Scripture, not a progressive twisting it.



I didn't read it as rude either because I have seen what he is talking about. There are articles and websites all over the place that twist the scriptures and mangle them beyond recognition. I have read some articles that folks posted on this forum to try and prove some point about Christians acting contrary to the Bible, and it is scary the level of deception that is being spread as "gospel". I think people who read their Bible and understand it as a whole don't often fall for those things, but I can see new Christians, or people who are non believers falling for it hook, line, and sinker. But I suppose we were warned...

* 2 Peter 2:1New International Version (NIV)*

*False Teachers and Their Destruction*

2 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought themâbringing swift destruction on themselves.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Wasnt it Wyoming that started that womens right to vote nonsense too?


Yeah. And that was against God too, along with letting the :gossip:******** get the vote.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

ErinP said:


> Yeah. And that was against God too, along with letting the :gossip:******** get the vote.


Show me!


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Show you what? 


Are you saying you didn't KNOW that the Bible was used as the platform for most of the discrimination laws in the US's (not-so-distant) past?
Shoot, there are even a few religious institutions (Bob Jones University springs immediately to mind) who didn't allow inter-racial dating until_ just the last decade or so_, because of their interpretation of the Bible!

People have long disagreed on interpretation, and the false-prophet argument is _always_ the favorite to show the contradictory opinions why they're wrong! lol


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

We need to send all little boys to spend lots of time with priests so they can teach them gay is bad


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## cedarvalley (Feb 28, 2012)

haley1 said:


> We need to send all little boys to spend lots of time with priests so they can teach them gay is bad


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

Jax-mom said:


> I believe in a God who is tolerant and loves all. I do not judge which is why I love my friends, gay and straight.
> 
> I'm straight but not narrow.


I can't speak for anyone but me really. But I wanted to address those couple of sentences and I hope you will hear my heart in my clumsy and rambling response.

God does love all - straight, gay, murderer, thief, liar, addict, pedophile, and even the folks who have decided they don't believe He exists at all. He loves them enough to lay down His life for them. But He was also very clear with some instructions about what things are acceptable and what things are not. 

Your screen name says "mom" so I assume you have kids. When they do something wrong do you stop loving them? I am certain your love is deeper than their infractions. Do you try to teach them what is acceptable and expect them to do better next time? I am sure you do. 

He loves all of us, even in our sin. The Bible is exceedingly clear on that. But He also expects us to be about the business of walking away from the sinful things in our lives. Nobody's sin is any worse than anyone else's sin. It is just that some sins are more outwardly visible and get more media attention. But for the record, God expects adulterers to stop cheating, He expects liars to stop lying, He expects thieves to stop stealing, He expects people to turn away from porn, etc. We don't get to simply say, "well He hasn't struck me with lightening yet, so He must not have been serious about that particular rule".

To say something is a sin is not judging, it is simply stating that something is against God's law. If we are in a car and you are driving too fast and I tell you that you are speeding, it does not mean I hate you. In fact, it probably means I care about you enough to try to prevent you from getting into trouble or danger.

Only one of us was ever truly "narrow" :gaptooth:. You are not expected to walk the path perfectly. But you are expected to admit when you fall off and make the effort to get back on. And you are absolutely loved during the entire process.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

haley1 said:


> We need to send all little boys to spend lots of time with priests so they can teach them gay is bad





cedarvalley said:


>


I assure you, you will not find me defending any kind of pervert. I don't care what they call themselves or how they dress or what denomination they claim to be. IMO, jail is too good for *anyone* that molests children. The ones that would defend or protect these monsters are just as guilty and deserve the same punishment.


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## cedarvalley (Feb 28, 2012)

paradox said:


> I can't speak for anyone but me really. But I wanted to address those couple of sentences and I hope you will hear my heart in my clumsy and rambling response.
> 
> God does love all - straight, gay, murderer, thief, liar, addict, pedophile, and even the folks who have decided they don't believe He exists at all. He loves them enough to lay down His life for them. But He was also very clear with some instructions about what things are acceptable and what things are not.
> 
> ...











Jesus faced a mob that was eager to execute a woman caught in adultery. He put a stop to it with a simple challenge: anyone who has no sin in their life should step forward and throw the first stone. That sentence is often cited as a reminder to avoid judging others when there are faults in your own life that need to be addressed.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

A neat way to get around Wyoming and federal inheritance taxes....Marry your father!


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Paradox, thank you for your well thought out response, I appreciate it. And it makes sense. 

For the record though, jack is my dog. I don't think he's gay but I'd love him just the same. . Also, straightbutnotnarrow is an organization I'm interested in but it rings true for my life as well.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

LOL

Anybody know what modern word comes from Sodom and what it means?

It interesting that all of the bible era homosexuality and general heterosexual "depravity", was conveniently contained in two cities. Level the cities - problem solved - for a couple thousand years, anyway.  





Sawmill Jim said:


> I say God has lifted his protection from this country and Christians are now in the crosshairs to be come extent .Better chose your side wisely :runforhills:


Speaking of the modern word for sodom, maybe many Christians whould be woried about being in the crosshairs, too, but for different reasons.

_Cafeteria Christianity_ never goes out of style.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=christian+lifestyple+swingers


> A devout Christian couple from Florida are championing an unusual evangelism technique &#8211; swinging.


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## cedarvalley (Feb 28, 2012)

plowjockey said:


> LOL
> 
> Anybody know what modern word comes from Sodom and what it means?
> 
> ...


Ok, LOL, that's just weird. Christian swingers, I guess if you need a way to justify the lifestyle your living.:kiss:


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

painterswife said:


> I don't need a God to tell me what is right or wrong and God does not make our laws.


You know not the folly of what you're saying. Although fallen, even satan and demons acknowledge laws and boundaries that God has established and tremble.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wow. Nothing like that ever happens when I go to Home Depot.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

plowjockey said:


> LOL
> 
> Anybody know what modern word comes from Sodom and what it means?
> 
> ...


Anyone that would refer to them as Christian has been gave over to a reprobate mind .

New International Version
Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Anyone that would refer to them as Christian has been gave over to a reprobate mind .
> 
> New International Version
> Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.


There are lots of folks claiming to be Christian who throw the Bible completely out the window. They may believe in "a god" but they don't believe in "the God".


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

Paradox, you make some very fine points. 
I was once asked why i go to such and such place to church. "Don't you know that church is full of sinners and hypocrites. " I answered, "Well, I am one of those sinners. That's why I go to church. As far as the hypocrites, I'd rather go to church with a hypocrite than go to hell with one." 
Just because I believe God does not approve of homosexuality does not mean that I "hate" people or am a "homophobe." 
I guess they are going to do what they want and making everyone else accept it makes them feel better about their sin.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

nosedirt said:


> "
> I guess they are going to do what they want and making everyone else accept it makes them feel better about their sin.


They are not asking you to accept it. Just keep out of their lives.

I don't like or agree with smokers but I don't tell them to stop.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

nosedirt said:


> I guess they are going to do what they want and making everyone else accept it makes them feel better about their sin.


Just remember, it wasn't that long ago that people used the Bible to tell us mixed marriages (and even schools) were a sin, slavery was acceptable, and pressuring people into weekly church attendance was the way to win souls to Christ. 


Just because _you_ interpret the Bible one way doesn't mean it's how everyone interprets it. 
Abolitionists and slave holders were both absolutely positive theirs was the correct version. :shrug:


Nor does anyone really care what you do or don't accept. They just want the same protections, access and rights that everyone else has.
I get to put a family picture on my desk without fear of being fired, the same should be true for my gay co-worker.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> They are not asking you to accept it. Just keep out of their lives.
> 
> *I don't like or agree with smokers but I don't tell them to stop.*


And I thank you for that... the world could use more people like yourself.


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

Erin, I was taught from the Bible that ALL people have a soul and that God loves everyone, regardless of color. My interpretation doesn't matter. Your interpretation doesn't matter. It's God's interpretation that we all will be judged by when the time comes. We all need to be ready.


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

Painterswife,
I am not in their life. They are the ones marching in the "pride" parades. God will judge.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

ErinP said:


> Just remember, it wasn't that long ago that people used the Bible to tell us mixed marriages (and even schools) were a sin, slavery was acceptable, and pressuring people into weekly church attendance was the way to win souls to Christ.
> 
> 
> Just because _you_ interpret the Bible one way doesn't mean it's how everyone interprets it.
> ...


There in lies some of the problems reading a scripture that needs no interpretation and putting a interpretation to it :runforhills: 

Corinthians 6:9English Standard Version (ESV)

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,*

See not hard at all :angel:*


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Sawmill Jim said:


> There in lies some of the problems reading a scripture that needs no interpretation and putting a interpretation to it :runforhills:
> 
> Corinthians 6:9English Standard Version (ESV)
> 
> ...


*

Where does it say you get to interfere in someone else's life?*


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

painterswife said:


> Where does it say you get to interfere in someone else's life?


Could you be more clear .Were you asking about interfering with baking cakes selling goods or services to who the owner chooses to sell to . Or the idea everyone should use the same restroom in public . Or who to photograph . Far be it for Christians to interfere with the agenda of evil and prolong the destruction of this once great nation 

Title: GOD'S IMMEDIATE PLANS FOR AMERICA -- PART 1 -- THE UNGODLY
Subtitle: Biblical prophecy DOES make it quite clear what God's plans for this country are in the immediate time period just ahead. Do not believe that America is not mentioned in Scripture. We are mentioned, and not pleasantly.

The New World Order is coming! Are you ready? Once you understand what this New World Order really is, and how it is being gradually implemented, you will be able to see it progressing in your daily news!!

Learn how to protect yourself, your loved ones!

Stand by for insights so startling you will never look at the news the same way again.

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1306.cfm


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Ok Sawmill, I clicked on the article... what a great rant! Havent heard anything comparing to that since my Granny made me listen to her fire and brimstone preacher as a little kid. Rather amusing at best, but overall a total waste of not only bandwidth, but my time. Heres the deal, if the good ol USA is scheduled to be destroyed in its entirety, what possible difference is it going to make if we set aside our bigotry for a few moments before we are all wiped out anyway? We are obviously going to be destroyed according to this wack job... is keeping homosexuals from marrying going to magically change the prophesy? I didnt find an option 2.... all I read was that we are doomed.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

nosedirt said:


> Erin, I was taught from the Bible that ALL people have a soul and that God loves everyone, regardless of color. My interpretation doesn't matter. Your interpretation doesn't matter. It's God's interpretation that we all will be judged by when the time comes. We all need to be ready.


I agree. 
But none of this has anything whatsoever with denying equal rights to entire classes of people in this country. 



Sawmill Jim said:


> Corinthians 6:9English Standard Version (ESV)
> 
> 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,*
> 
> See not hard at all :angel:*


*
My point exactly. People were just as positive about the Bible's support of slavery or condemnation of mixed marriages. 

Paul also writes that men shouldn't marry, women shouldn't braid their hair, and no one should wear jewelry of any sort. 
And yet all of those people get to marry whomever they want&#8230; :shrug:


Who are you to judge someone else's servant? 
More importantly, what business is it of [yours] to judge those outside the church?


ETA: Given the choice between judgement and grace, I try to err on the side of grace. I figure God can handle the judgement part. 
Love covers a multitude of sins and this world is too cold and ugly as it is. When facing my own judgement, I'd rather He tell me I was too soft on others than too harsh.*


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

Erin,
I don't know anyone that uses the Bible to support slavery. I know I don't use the Bible to support slavery. What has that got to do with the topic? Using your logic...someone stabbed and killed someone else with a knife, therefore a knife cannot be used to cut a steak to eat, or a knife can't be used for what a knife was intended for, to cut.
That has nothing to do with the fact that the Bible directly states that homosexuality is wrong. You and I may disagree on some point here and there that the Bible is not so clear on. But God spells out very clearly what he thinks of homosexuality. It is sin, it is wrong. It is not natural and is perverted.
Leviticus 18:22 
Leviticus 20:13
Romans 1:26-28
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
1 Timothy 1:10
There's more but this should give you the idea. If you cannot accept what is said, you are not rejecting me and my think so, you are rejecting God. Now let's understand that this is just one sin of many that people commit. God dislikes adultery, drunkenness, idol worshipers and so on. I do believe that many folks give this sin more credence than others. If I am a liar and a cheat, I will be condemned the same as a homosexual. He won't be sitting in a hotter corner of hell or neither will I. We both will be there for not repenting and following God's word.
As far as discrimination...Maybe I should sue the NBA for discriminating against me. They refuse to let me play basketball because I am old, short, fat, and have no talent. If the sinner feels discriminated against, there is a solution. Repent and sin no more. 
I find it puzzling that such a small part of the population expect everyone else to accept their deviant behavior. Why can't they just accept my belief in God?
I hope my thoughts on this are accepted in the kind way I have tried to present it.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> I don't know anyone that uses the Bible to support slavery. I know I don't use the Bible to support slavery. What has that got to do with the topic?


Not anymore. That's my point.
But a 100+ years ago, it was _precisely_ the support for slavery, and later merely Black subjugation. Shoot, the Klan is STILL a "Christian organization." 
Seriously. Look it up.

To homosexuality, it's not an issue for me. I'm not gay. 
Are you? Is your church going to be doing gay weddings? If not, why does it even matter what the Bible has to say on the subject? 

Who are you to judge someone else's servant? 
More importantly, what business is it of [yours] to judge those outside the church?


And what does _any_ of this have to do with constitutional rights? (Because that's really the only thing the state of Wyoming cared about when passing this)


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

Erin,
Let's assume the speed limit is 55 mph. I am in my car going 55 mph. You fly past me like I'm sitting still. Can I decide that you are speeding or say, I can't judge her. I can make an observation based on what the law says. Now a patrolman pulls you over and sends you to the court. There, you will be judged and told what your punishment will be.

I'm not judging. I'm simply stating what God has already said. I prefer not to argue with Him. If you can't accept it, you must take that up with Him. You and I both know what the Bible says. I am not involving myself in these people's lives. They are the ones who have decided to "come out" and exclaim to the world that they are living a sinful life. They do so in order to convince us that their way is right and God's way is wrong. "Hey, look at me and what I'm doing. No. it's not sinful. God won't punish you." Sounds like the serpent in the garden. But that does not change what the bible says.

Back to your other point, the Bible does not condemn slavery. The Bible does not praise slavery. It does mention people who were slaves. To use the Bible to uphold slavery would be an incorrect use of the bible. To try to say that others used the Bible incorrectly therefore sin is okay, is still wrong. Not a good argument.

Once again, I try to present this in the kindest way I know. Did you read the verses I listed? Can we agree that God says homosexuality is wrong, against nature, is a perversion? Whether we agree or not, nothing changes what God has said. And yes, it does matter what God says. His word is what we all will be judged by when that time comes.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

I know my Bible backwards and forwards, nosedirt. I repeat: I'm not gay. It's not an issue for me. 
Are you? Is that why this is such a big deal for you?
Laws in the US are determined by the Constitution, not the Bible. (Which is good, because I sure don't want to _have_ to go to church on Saturday&#8230;And I like being allowed to wear pants.)


Also, since you missed it the first couple of times, I'll repeat this too: 

Who are you to judge someone else's servant? 
More importantly, what business is it of [yours] to judge those outside the church?


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

I just answered that.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Ah. I've misunderstood you, then. 
I thought you were trying to argue _against_ equal rights by citing the Bible. I thought you were saying you thought this discrimination was _OK_&#8230;
Kind of like the speed limit only applies to people with curly hair&#8230;everyone else gets a free pass. 

No worries.


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

Erin,
Well if we don't agree maybe we can at least smile a little. I don't have curly hair so maybe that's why I always get the book thrown at me with those speeding tickets. haha

I don't think the Bible says a whole lot about discrimination except that we should shun evil and accept God's word as righteousness. 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree because i refuse to go against God's word. If he says homosexuality is wrong, who am I or you to disagree with that.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Ok Sawmill, I clicked on the article... what a great rant! Havent heard anything comparing to that since my Granny made me listen to her fire and brimstone preacher as a little kid. Rather amusing at best, but overall a total waste of not only bandwidth, but my time. Heres the deal, if the good ol USA is scheduled to be destroyed in its entirety, what possible difference is it going to make if we set aside our bigotry for a few moments before we are all wiped out anyway? We are obviously going to be destroyed according to this wack job... is keeping homosexuals from marrying going to magically change the prophesy? I didnt find an option 2.... all I read was that we are doomed.


Look at the history of the nations that have refused to follow Gods ways . Even the Jews were scattered for hundreds of years ,those being his chosen people ,how much better do you think this country is going to do .

The Bible says the bigotry as you call it is pure evil .Last time God got really sad for making man there were only eight people saved . Other than the Bible there are over 250 accounts of a global flood . Even Napoleon said people will believe anything as long as it isn't wrote in the Bible .

Option 2 when ones time is up where do they want to be forever .
Mark 8:36King James Version (KJV)

36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

nosedirt said:


> Painterswife,
> I am not in their life. They are the ones marching in the "pride" parades. God will judge.


Then don't go to the parade. I haven't been to a St. Patricks day parade in years.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

I was curious so I looked something up in this link here: http://www.freedomtomarry.org/states/ I couldn't remember how many states it was legal in.

_"In 32 states - AK, AZ, CA, CO, CT, DE, HI, ID, IA, IL, IN, ME, MD, MA, MN, NC, NH, NJ, NM, NV, NY, OK, OR, PA, RI, UT, VA, VT, WA, WV, WI, and WY, plus Washington, D.C. - same-sex couples have the freedom to marry. In an additional three states - KS, MT, and SC - federal appellate rulings have set a binding precedent in favor of the freedom to marry, meaning the path is cleared for the freedom to marry there.

In an additional 8 states, judges have issued rulings in favor of the freedom to marry, with many of these rulings now stayed as they proceed to appellate courts: In AR, FL, KY, MI, and TX, judges have struck down marriage bans, and in LA, OH and TN, judges have issued more limited pro-marriage rulings. In MO, the marriages of same-sex couples legally performed in other states are respected"_


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

Sawmill Jim said:


> There in lies some of the problems reading a scripture that needs no interpretation and putting a interpretation to it :runforhills:
> 
> Corinthians 6:9*English Standard Version* (ESV)
> 
> ...


*
How many versions are there? Obviously some interpretation was needed somewhere to create multiple versions.*


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

Let's not confuse a "translation" of the Bible and the thought of "interpretation." Regardless of which translation you use, the Bible still condemns homosexuality. 

Thou shalt not commit vs You will not commit.

Either way, the message is the same. God condemns sin. He condemns sexual perversion. He calls homosexuality a sexual perversion. He condemns homosexuality.

Why are we looking to give "rights" to those who commit sexual perversion. That makes us perverted as well even if we are not committing the act that is perverted. Also, let's quit hiding the sin with a different name. Homosexuals are just that, homosexuals. They are not gay. That word is a diversion from what they are actually doing which is committing homosexuality which is condemned by God.

God said it. I believe it. That settles it.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

nosedirt said:


> Let's not confuse a "translation" of the Bible and the thought of "interpretation." Regardless of which translation you use, the Bible still condemns homosexuality.
> 
> Thou shalt not commit vs You will not commit.
> 
> ...


You get to decide what is acceptable sex practices for you, not your fellow Americans. As long as they are consenting adults willing engaging in an activity, it is not your business to prohibit it.

Then there is the point that marriage is not about sex it is about a relationship.


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

No, I think God gets to decide. Our only decision is whether or not we want to follow God.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

nosedirt said:


> No, I think God gets to decide. Our only decision is whether or not we want to follow God.


God may decide for you. He does not decide for me because he does not exist for me..


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

Well then, you have made your decision. I also have chosen. Joshua 24:15


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

nosedirt said:


> Well then, you have made your decision. I also have chosen. Joshua 24:15


Isn't that great! Each person gets to decide for themselves. The constitution says so.


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

I am a supporter of the constitution. I gave a few years of my life to support the constitution. But I also understand that just because the constitution allows a certain thing does not make that certain thing right. 
I hope you are not offended that I will pray that your heart will be opened. The ultimate goal is to reach heaven. God will be the judge that makes that decision. Once again, Joshua 24:15

I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree on this particular matter.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

nosedirt said:


> I am a supporter of the constitution. I gave a few years of my life to support the constitution. But I also understand that just because the constitution allows a certain thing does not make that certain thing right.
> I hope you are not offended that I will pray that your heart will be opened. The ultimate goal is to reach heaven. God will be the judge that makes that decision. Once again, Joshua 24:15
> 
> I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree on this particular matter.


I am not offended with you praying for me. I am secure in the knowledge that if there is a God, I have lived my life in a way that he would be happy with even though I don't believe in him.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

painterswife said:


> I am not offended with you praying for me. I am secure in the knowledge that if there is a God, I have lived my life in a way that he would be happy with even though I don't believe in him.
> 
> An't it great to be in a country that lets one have a choice .Many places now if you don't bow to Allah they just lop your head off . Some of us know that as far as the God of Abraham goes that God also gives us a choice and the results of the wrong one .
> 
> ...


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

Still trying to wrap my head around why people are so threatened by people being gay...

I"m not a Christian so "Because God said so" just doesn't cut it for me. For something to be frowned on or considered a "sin" it has to have a victim and/or a negative impact on society. What negative impact could two men or two women in a loving relationship have on anyone's life?

If two men or two women being together is "not natural" does that mean a heterosexual couple in their own bedroom have to refrain from any physical contact other than the missionary position because anything else is not natural?

I'm not gay but my sister is and I interact socially a fair bit with the gay community and for the life of me, I can't see any difference in them other than they happen to be attracted to people of their own gender. The only impact it's had on me is that I uncontrollably dance like an idiot whenever YMCA comes on... I guess I'm doomed!


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

I don't believe anyone in this thread said they feel threatened by homosexuals. I believe in God and His word. So yes, God saying it is so is good enough for me. 

Your definition of sin is incorrect. Sin does not have to have a "victim" unless you count the one sinning as a victim of Satan. Sin is going against God's will. Sin separates us from God so anything that separates us from God is sin. Rather simple concept for those who wish to understand.

It is not too difficult to understand what is not natural about homosexuality. I will not spell it out for you on this thread. I believe you should be old enough to figure that out yourself.

As far as being doomed, I don't think dancing to YMCA is what will doom you.(unless you are that bad of a dancer) You doom yourself when you refuse to accept God. 

Once again, this is not my word but it is from the Bible, God's word. Your issue is not with me, it is with God. I do pray that you will be open minded and study the Bible so you too can understand God's wishes for you.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

> If two men or two women being together is "not natural" does that mean a heterosexual couple in their own bedroom have to refrain from any physical contact other than the missionary position because anything else is not natural?


The missionary position is quite unnatural...not many animals in nature use it....


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## msscamp (Sep 8, 2014)

harvestmoon1964 said:


> IMO, this is a triumph given this is the state where the Matthew Shepherd murder happened. Hopefully people in Wyoming are more evolved and more tolerant of people who are different from themselves.


How very tolerant of you! 2 people - TWO - killed Matthew Shepard, yet you condemn the entire state and every person who lives in it. How about practicing what you preach? Better yet, how about just not commenting.


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2014)

Maybe this is the away to thin the world without a flood, that was promised not to occur again. Without procreation your favorite "victim" group of the decade will die off. Live and let live, only he will judge, not you or I. 

But I guess artificially concieved life will satisfy the victims also...hmmmm


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## Cabanaboy1313 (Oct 15, 2014)

It amazes me how intolerant the Righteous are. But what is more enlightening is how Atheist, Gays, and Socialist follow the teachings of Christ better than Christians.


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

Cabana,
From what do you base you opinion?

Not all who call themselves "Christians" are Christians. I own a Honda. Calling it a Corvette might make me feel better about it but it won't make my Honda go any faster. Besides, my Honda goes fast enough. lol

I am a Christian but that doesn't mean I always act like a Christian. Someone asked me why I go to church three times a week, wasn't that an awful lot? I responded, "Well don't you think I need it? People sometimes expect Christians to be perfect. No human is perfect. But Jesus our example is. I make mistakes all the time but I ask God to forgive me and I move on, trying not to make the same mistake again. Sometimes that's real difficult. The reason Christians fail and sin is simple. Satan is after Christians. He is not after the rest of the world, he already has them.

Many liberally minded folks complain that Christians are not tolerant. Well, we sure do tolerate an awful lot from the world. But I find that it is those who are from the liberal camp who are the most intolerant. If I wanted a cake made and the shop where I went said they don't make cakes for Christians, I would find a different shop. But some people can't accept that if they live a sinful and deviant lifestyle, that I really don't want to bake them a cake and celebrate their sinful attitude. So, they sue me and try to ruin my business. That is very intolerant.

God is the one we need to consider. He has set forth in His word certain commandments that he expects us to follow. He will be very intolerant on the Day of Judgement with those who have mocked him and refused His teachings.


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## Cabanaboy1313 (Oct 15, 2014)

ND 
It is just too easy for Christians to "sin" (Make Mistakes" as you said) and just ask forgiveness or be born again and all is forgiven. But If a Buddhist lives a moral life till he or she dies all is lost because they are already had by Satan. Well if I can't get into heaven I don't want to get in. If there is a God I believe he loves the babies dying in Africa of starvation better than some Christian with a McMansion that goes to church on Sunday. We in the USA have a chance to change the world but instead some worry too much about if two guys get married.


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## Lady89 (Feb 22, 2014)

good for Wyoming!


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

Cabana,
Why can't you get into Heaven? Study the bible, follow it's principles and God's instruction and you can go to Heaven. The Buddhists have the same option to follow God. Everyone has the ability to follow God. Many choose not to. I don't want to say that a Buddhist will go to Hell, God will do the judging. I do know that God teaches us that there are certain things he expects us to do to go to Heaven. I hope that you will choose to study at least to find out more. Many people don't like religion simply because they have been misinformed. Too many people take the word of the "pastor" instead of looking for the answers themselves. I wish you the best should you take on this endeavor.


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## Cabanaboy1313 (Oct 15, 2014)

20+ states to go. 
Gay marriage is the future. As interracial marriage was, as was ending child labor, as was women being able to vote, as was ending slavery.

taking the opposite side of the above proved to be on the wrong side of history...

I will take the liberal, progressive, socialist, democrat, over a conservative, regressive, fascist, republican any day.


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## Cabanaboy1313 (Oct 15, 2014)

ND you were the one who said Satan was after the Christians, because Satan already has the rest of the world.


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

Cabana,
Interesting choice. Do you realize that it was the Republican party that pushed for abolishing slavery. The Democrat party was the party of the KKK. Abolishing slavery was considered a "progressive" idea in 1860 as many countries still were holding to slavery. Some countries did not make slavery illegal until the last 30 or 40 years. Conservative, so called, are not fascist. Please don't get me wrong, I do not hold to the Republican party but I do think it's important that you base your choices on fact.

We cannot compare interracial marriage and homosexual marriage. Interracial marriage is just that. People of two different races getting married. There is no where in the New Testament that God condemns that. To compare equality of the races to homosexual marriage is demeaning to those races involved. There is nothing sinful about one's race or marrying another race. However, God is very plain when he states that homosexuality is sinful and He does not approve.

See, the goal of the "liberal, progressive, socialist, democrat" is not to make this country better, it is simply to get people to accept their sinful and unGodly lifestyle. 

The only way that slavery is in any way equal to homosexuals, is the slave in 1860 was enslaved to another man. The homosexual is enslaved to Satan.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Has anyone here ever been to a wedding between two people of the same sex? Just curious.


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

nosedirt said:


> I don't believe anyone in this thread said they feel threatened by homosexuals. I believe in God and His word. So yes, God saying it is so is good enough for me.
> 
> Your definition of sin is incorrect. Sin does not have to have a "victim" unless you count the one sinning as a victim of Satan. Sin is going against God's will. Sin separates us from God so anything that separates us from God is sin. Rather simple concept for those who wish to understand.
> 
> ...


I've participated in these threads before so I"m not going to go into my long and colorful history with Christianity. I do have a pretty good working knowledge of the Bible although it's been a long time since I really studied it since I haven't followed that path for about 30 years now. There has been a lot of irreversible damage done to my family because of the directions of a Christian cult we once belonged to. You have to do better then "God said so" and just blindly following along just because you're told to.

You don't have to actually say that something is a threat. If you condemn something it's because it is a threat to you in some way. Otherwise it is of no consequence to you and you wouldn't care about it one way or another. People being gay has no negative effect on your life and gay people are no threat to themselves so why the big deal?


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

Jax-mom said:


> Has anyone here ever been to a wedding between two people of the same sex? Just curious.


My sister married her partner a few years ago and it was just like a regular wedding. My sister's partner wore a suit and my sister wore a wedding dress. 

My Parents are Christian and when my sister came out to them my Dad said he was disappointed and it hurt my sister terribly. However, my Parents accepted my sister with love and compassion and accepted my sister's partner into our family. My Dad walked my sister down the aisle and the wedding went along like any other wedding, the vows, dinner, speeches, dancing, etc. There were many guests there who I was pleasantly surprised to see there as some of them were older and more conservative but who did not judge them and wished nothing but love and happiness for the new couple.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

^ Yup. We went to the wedding of a good friend (I've posted about it in the past). We walked in at the back and I was astonished to see so many grey heads. It brought tears to my eyes. Even my father came. I know he doesn't understand..nor does he necessarily agree, but he supports and loves her, so he put that aside to help them celebrate their special day. It was completely like any other wedding except there were two women exchanging vows. No long-drawn out kisses (I even don't like PDA from M/F couples) or anything weird. 

They had been together for a long time, I think 15+ years and to see them finally standing there making a commitment to each other was a wonderful thing. You could see a giant weight lifted off their shoulders. These are two of the nicest people I know..hardworking and just real people who would give you the shirt off their backs. They go to church. They work. They work outside. They argue and fight then go watch movies, just like any other couple does.

I've only been to that one wedding. The other friends I have who are gay are not the marrying kind, let's just say that... But neither am I, at least not at this point.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

p.s. I have known this friend since we were 5. She always wore pants. Even in my earliest memories, before I even knew what homosexuality was...I knew. She was the go-to friend when I wanted to play cowboys and indians. God made her that way and He loves her simply as she is, as do I.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> p.s. I have known this friend since we were 5. She always wore pants. Even in my earliest memories, before I even knew what homosexuality was...I knew.


Anyone old enough to have watched a generation of kids grow up knows that you can usually tell which ones will be gay long before they hit puberty.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

I remember she came over once and I tried to get her to play Barbies. She always had to be Ken. Once I made her be Barbie and she got mad and went into the bathroom and cut off Barbie's hair off. Then her Barbie had all sorts of exciting adventures like climbing on ropes and parachuting off my playhouse..while I only wanted to pretend Barbie was pregnant by stuffing a little ball down her dress.

I hid my Malibu Barbie after that day - lol. I still have both of them, butch Barbie and the other one.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Jax-mom said:


> Has anyone here ever been to a wedding between two people of the same sex? Just curious.


Yep. Been to couple. One civil ceremony held in farm field, one reformed Jewish held in a Temple. I'm waiting on my DD's best friend and significant other to set a date. Hoping to go to San Diego for the party.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Truckinguy said:


> People being gay has no negative effect on your life and gay people are no threat to themselves so why the big deal?


Some folks just like to meddle.


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

I just feel that if two souls love and care for each other enough to want to commit their lives to each other, regardless of what parts they have on the outside, shouldn't we encourage that? There are enough nasty things going on in this world, you would think we would be looking for more ways to add love and stability and look on the side of compassion and inclusiveness instead of judgement and marginalization.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Jax-mom said:


> Has anyone here ever been to a wedding between two people of the same sex? Just curious.


No I have not. I have also avoided other human activities that are against my faith and strong understanding of negatives.

I have missed out of driving drunk, the weather under ground, lynchings, boxing matches, group
sex orgies, shootouts, gang bang events, hazings the war on women, crack house looting .

Yet, I still find fulfilment in my life. Odd huh.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Truckinguy said:


> I just feel that if two souls love and care for each other enough to want to commit their lives to each other, regardless of what parts they have on the outside, shouldn't we encourage that? There are enough nasty things going on in this world, you would think we would be looking for more ways to add love and stability and look on the side of compassion and inclusiveness instead of judgement and marginalization.


If Muslims find a homosexual and beheaded should we show acceptance to them?

I mean let's all get along right. 

Really because there is more frustration over people who's faith is to encourage heterosexual practices than for for faiths that kill for their beliefs. I am not doing any activity other than peacefully standing true to my core beliefs.


Why not address those doing violence. Beheading, mutations, raping beatings ...trust me I will not harm a person for who they love. Muslims do. Put your energy and put out a wild fire rather than blow out the candles on a birthday cake.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

I applaud you for avoiding things that contradict your faith.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Thanks but can you accept that my faith means NOT to lead someone to sin. Muslims kill. Why not focus energy in gaining support in limiting the killing of homosexuals to zero verses the constant attracts to alter Christians who not bake cakes to celebrate what the believe to be sin.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Thanks but can you accept that my faith means NOT to lead someone to sin. Muslims kill. Why not focus energy in gaining support in limiting the killing of homosexuals to zero verses the constant attracts to alter Christians who not bake cakes to celebrate what the believe to be sin.


You can counsel all those that wish to listen. You can not however force your religion and its laws on them. 

We accept what your faith means to you. It does not mean the same to others. Can you accept that?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I do that is why I work using words not force. When a business does not want my business due to my life style I go where I am accepted and do business there. Can you do that ?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

So, are Muslims more a threat to homosexuals than Christian cake maker's? Or are the pastry chefs easy targets?


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

kasilofhome said:


> I do that is why I work using words not force. When a business does not want my business due to my life style I go where I am accepted and do business there. Can you do that ?


I thought I read somewhere - wish I could find it, that at that chapel that was coming under fire, the couple who had originally wished to be married, had just decided to go elsewhere.. There is a huge gay-friendly 'world' I guess you could call it, with information about gay-friendly businesses/hotels, etc...places where they are accepted.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> I do that is why I work using words not force. When a business does not want my business due to my life style I go where I am accepted and do business there. Can you do that ?


Your personal life is yours but sorry I don't believe anyone is free to not adhere to our laws with regards to our constitution. If you feel those laws are unjust then you fight to have them changed or you face the consequences. Business in this country has laws.


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## Cabanaboy1313 (Oct 15, 2014)

NB,
I don't want to usurp this thread, but I hope you understand the history of the Democratic and Republican parties. Originally the Republicans were the Progressives in the north. By the end of the civil rights movement the two parties switched ideologies.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Your personal life is yours but sorry I don't believe anyone is free to not adhere to our laws with regards to our constitution. If you feel those laws are unjust then you fight to have them changed or you face the consequences. Business in this country has laws.


My state constitution still stands as one man and one woman. As for the US constitution ....remember your words as there truly is a foundation in it that supports my alaskan state constitution.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> My state constitution still stands as one man and one woman. As for the US constitution ....remember your words as there truly is a foundation in it that supports my alaskan state constitution.


Please feel free to educate me with exactly where you think I am going wrong.
I believe that your State constitution in regards to same sex marriage has lost in court because it is part of the US constitution and the law on discrimination has been upheld. Your state would not be allowed to discriminate against women or someone because of race as well, no matter how many times you put it in your constitution.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Well, the battle is not over. Our state has not bowed out it remains a case for the highest court to weigh in on. I know news travels slowly but our gov Sean Parnell is dealing with this I amount others wish him luck in his reelection.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

I appreciate everyone's posts. I always like hearing an opposing viewpoint to mine because it's nice to know and try to understand both sides to a story....but I know this is just something we will disagree on no matter what..kind of reminds me of a tug-o-war.

Take care everyone and have a good weekend. I'm off to battle leaves.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> I do that is why I work using words not force. When a business does not want my business due to my life style I go where I am accepted and do business there. Can you do that ?


Isn't it great that you live in a country that grants you the freedom to give money in exchange for goods and services to whomever you wish? That's the same freedom of action everyone should have, no?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

No, not all business with to meet the wants and needs of gun toting smokers... but that is life Heck I do note shop in kenai much due to the banning of vaping....the mayor also tried to ban birthday candles in public restaurants and offices. That she did not get.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> No, not all business with to meet the wants and needs of gun toting smokers... but that is life Heck I do note shop in kenai much due to the banning of vaping....the mayor also tried to ban birthday candles in public restaurants and offices. That she did not get.


But it's your choice whether to enter those businesses or not. The same choice others deserve to be able to make.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I must meet the wants of my behavior or choices I can not be as I am.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

So why is it ok to ban camping and gun carrying but to ban homosexual behavior not. They are life style choices.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> I must meet the wants of my behavior or choices I can not be as I am.


Sure you can. You can choose to put your cigarette out before entering an establishment that doesn't allow smoking. You can leave your gun behind if your going to an establishment that doesn't allow them. Exactly what behavior can a gay person not partake of in an establishment to be banned? You see, it is perfectly valid to not let you do certain things, it's not valid to not let you be certain things.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> So why is it ok to ban camping and gun carrying but to ban homosexual behavior not. They are life style choices.


You do not choose your sexual orientation.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

painterswife said:


> You do not choose your sexual orientation.


Given that sexual orientation, like most human behaviors, encompasses a wide spectrum it is possible that some people can choose to be gay. It's not really germane to whether you can ban someone from a business, though. Even if someone chooses to be gay you can't ban them from your business any more than you can ban someone who chooses to worship Christ. You can ban them from engaging in sexual acts just as you can ban the Christian for prostheletizing. You just can't ban them for existing.


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## susang (Sep 28, 2014)

:runforhills: or not. Not all religions who believe in God are Christian. Christian believe in Jesus Christ, nothing new in this statement. Not all who believe in God believe in the Bible as the book they follow. Isn't the Bible, Torah, Koran a guide for living for this life. Maybe some rely on other books or documents as guides for living. 
I am Agnostic and a Humanist, I choose not to judge others for their actions or beliefs. I choose to have compassion for all. I may not appreciate or understand the actions of others but they are the only one who has to face their soul on the day they die. By soul I mean moral compass, sense of right and wrong, inner spirituality...
I do not pick and choose from books or documents to support my soul. If two/three/four or more consenting adults want to join in a union of love, who are any of us to tell them it is wrong. I am not God and I'm pretty sure none of you are. For any of us that want to judge it is not our job, if one believes in God it is his job. I believe in a higher power and it is the power alone who judges my actions.
What religion, belief system, faith... gives anyone the right to poke fun of another religion (the Pope defending pedophiles). Aren't we adults this thread may have been doomed for controversy, but a discussion might be nice also.
There is so much controversy in this world isn't it possible love is love if only for a moment, all any of us have is this moment.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

mmoetc said:


> Given that sexual orientation, like most human behaviors, encompasses a wide spectrum it is possible that some people can choose to be gay. It's not really germane to whether you can ban someone from a business, though. Even if someone chooses to be gay you can't ban them from your business any more than you can ban someone who chooses to worship Christ. You can ban them from engaging in sexual acts just as you can ban the Christian for prostheletizing. You just can't ban them for existing.


I did not choose to be heterosexual and I am sure I could not choose to be gay. Yes, you can choose to learn to like certain sexual acts. I don't think though that is the same as choosing to be oriented a certain way. Of course there is a percentage of the population that is oriented both ways.

I don't see being gay or straight about the sex acts you engaged in. It is about what gender makes you feel complete in a relationship.

I know that I am not expressing myself perfectly in this regards but I hope what I mean comes through.


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## susang (Sep 28, 2014)

painterswife said:


> I did not choose to be heterosexual and I am sure I could not choose to be gay. Yes, you can choose to learn to like certain sexual acts. I don't think though that is the same as choosing to be oriented a certain way. Of course there is a percentage of the population that is oriented both ways.
> 
> I don't see being gay or straight about the sex acts you engaged in. It is about what gender makes you feel complete in a relationship.
> 
> I know that I am not expressing myself perfectly in this regards but I hope what I mean comes through.


I understand, the sexual act whatever it is for one is not the marriage. It is how two people treat each other over the span of their relationship.
This story is anecdotal but true: My grandmother a very devote Catholic did not want to marry, none the less one day my grandfather showed up at the door. My great grandfather said 'this is your future husband'. They were married and had four children, although my grandmother believed sex was only for procreation and no other reason. Yet she loved my grandfather cared for him as she had learned. When he was dying she cared for him until his last breath. This is what I think love is it is in your heart and your soul, not your eyes or 'nether regions'. We have this love for whomever our heart tells us, our soul guides us.
Many mature humans will tell you getting old is not for the weak. Growing old together is hard work it is caring for and being part of the other even when they don't remember you, when the bathroom is seconds too far, when help is needed for the simple task of putting on socks, this is love. Who am I to deny anyone, who are any of us to deny the possibility of this kind of love.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

painterswife said:


> I did not choose to be heterosexual and I am sure I could not choose to be gay. Yes, you can choose to learn to like certain sexual acts. I don't think though that is the same as choosing to be oriented a certain way. Of course there is a percentage of the population that is oriented both ways.
> 
> I don't see being gay or straight about the sex acts you engaged in. It is about what gender makes you feel complete in a relationship.
> 
> I know that I am not expressing myself perfectly in this regards but I hope what I mean comes through.


No, you expressed yourself fine. It my opinion that human sexuality runs the gamut from those who are only attracted to the opposite sex to those who are only attracted to members of the same sex. For them it is not a choice. But somewhere on the spectrum between those two extremes are folks who could go either way. For them, it may be a choice as to what lifestyle to follow depending upon who, with what plumbing, steals their heart. Regardless, it is no reason for them to be deprived of basic human rights and dignity.


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

kasilofhome said:


> If Muslims find a homosexual and beheaded should we show acceptance to them?
> 
> I mean let's all get along right.
> 
> ...


You are harming people for who they love by not extending them the same rights and benefits enjoyed by everyone. You are harming people for who they love by telling them that what they do is somehow wrong when all they want to do is love each other. You don't have to wage physical violence against someone to hurt them.

I don't know why you would expect me to get along with a Muslim who beheads a homosexual. I would never accept the actions of a bigoted murderer. I condemn all violent acts against anyone, anytime for any reason except in self defense. I defend anyone's right to love whoever they wish as long as they are consenting adults.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Cabanaboy1313 said:


> NB,
> I don't want to usurp this thread, but I hope you understand the history of the Democratic and Republican parties. Originally the Republicans were the Progressives in the north. By the end of the civil rights movement the two parties switched ideologies.


Many understand this but will still deny it's existence. 

After all it was the Democrats who started the Klu klux Klan.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Is there a proven DNA difference between heterosexuals and those who practice homosexuality. Not hypothesis but true genetic deviation. See one has control of their sexuality. It is a choice.... just as drinking smoking and stealing is a choice. One certainly live with out drinking and smoking or sex. I know that in today's world one demands everything possible that they find pleasurable even if it harms them, belongs to some one eels who earned, to the point that anyone who does not like or accept them for any reason yet does NOT miss there them must do as they say or accept being bullied.

The homosexuals and their supports could support business that welcome them but no they our out to destroy business that do not want to support activities that go against their faith.

People simply want to be able to conduct business and their lives without being victims of abusive behavior for rejecting behaviors that are sinful in their faith. 

Why is it not a hate crime to destroy businesses that do not want to support the homosexual celebrations.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Love who you want. I expect the right and freedom to support who I love...God.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> *Is there a proven DNA difference between heterosexuals and those who practice homosexuality.  Not hypothesis but true genetic deviation. See one has control of their sexuality. It is a choice.... just as drinking smoking and stealing is a choice.* One certainly live with out drinking and smoking or sex. I know that in today's world one demands everything possible that they find pleasurable even if it harms them, belongs to some one eels who earned, to the point that anyone who does not like or accept them for any reason yet does NOT miss there them must do as they say or accept being bullied.
> 
> The homosexuals and their supports could support business that welcome them but no they our out to destroy business that do not want to support activities that go against their faith.
> 
> ...


Prove to me there is a God who said homosexuality is bad. You can't! Now you have no basis to deny same sex marriage.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> Is there a proven DNA difference between heterosexuals and those who practice homosexuality. Not hypothesis but true genetic deviation. See one has control of their sexuality. It is a choice.... just as drinking smoking and stealing is a choice. One certainly live with out drinking and smoking or sex. I know that in today's world one demands everything possible that they find pleasurable even if it harms them, belongs to some one eels who earned, to the point that anyone who does not like or accept them for any reason yet does NOT miss there them must do as they say or accept being bullied.
> 
> The homosexuals and their supports could support business that welcome them but no they our out to destroy business that do not want to support activities that go against their faith.
> 
> ...


If people were having some sort of "homosexual celebration" inside a business that business could conceivably ask the participants to cease and desist or leave the business. Quite a different thing than just walking in and expecting the same service as anyone else.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

To be involved with a crim is also a crime of accessory.....to aid in a sin is in many faith ...leading the to temptations....which is a sin.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> To be involved with a crim is also a crime of accessory.....to aid in a sin is in many faith ...leading the to temptations....which is a sin.


I guess then no one can sell guns, knives or anything that could be used in the committing of a crime. Can't sell lumber because someone might use it to build a gay person's home.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

No, simple refuse to make a cake as there are other cake maker's will be able to meet their needs better. Just like I shop in soldiers vs kenai A's I can vape there.


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

> I believe in God and His word. So yes, God saying it is so is good enough for me.





> God said it. I believe it. That settles it.


I think this is really the big issue for me. To just blindly do something that you're told solely because you've been told to without any reason is a very dangerous thing. I have a sister and many relatives who I haven't laid eyes on in 30 years because they were told that, since some of us didn't accept the church's teachings and left, we were evil and should be shunned based on 2 Timothy 2 which talks about separating from evil.

I have a lot of respect for people who have an actual conviction that something is wrong based on fact and likely personal experience ie, murder, fraud, rape, bearing false witness, etc are wrong because they have a victim, cause grief and trauma for those close to the victim and are detrimental to society in general. I"m shoulder to shoulder with you on all that. However, to condemn something for no other reason than you were told to is, at the very least, disturbing and is the basis for religious extremism.

Muslims want to kill me because I"m not Muslim. Why? What harm have I done to them? What threat am I to them? Obviously I"m not but they have been taught that I am and will blindly charge forward and try to kill me just because they have been told to. If they met me and actually found out about me for themselves they would find that I"m just a regular guy, very hospitable and open minded and am absolutely no harm to them. If they pulled the religious shroud from their hearts I"m sure we, as human beings, would get along just fine.

People should sit down with gay people over a beer or dinner and try to get to know them. I'm sure they would find that they are just like everyone else.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Deal with cause I do not have the obligation to please you or anyone else. Nor do I loose sleep over, feel guilty or dirty.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Deal with cause I do not have the obligation to please you or anyone else. Nor do I loose sleep over, feel guilty or dirty.


Why then are you asking others to live by your rules? You are if you make laws that don't allow them to do the same things as you ( marry) Maybe you should just do what you are asking others to do, deal with it.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

kasilofhome said:


> My state constitution still stands as one man and one woman. As for the US constitution ....remember your words as there truly is a foundation in it that supports my alaskan state constitution.


I looked up your states constitution and found no reference whatsoever as to "one man, woman", perhaps you could bring forward the part that I overlooked. 

I did however find the 1972 amendment guaranteeing equal rights to its citizens regardless of their race, religion or sex.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I looked up your states constitution and found no reference whatsoever as to "one man, woman", perhaps you could bring forward the part that I overlooked.
> 
> I did however find the 1972 amendment guaranteeing equal rights to its citizens regardless of their race, religion or sex.


It is there. They voted on it in 1998.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

#25 of the alaskan state constitution. So look again it was voted in with over eighty percent support in 1998.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> #25 of the alaskan state constitution. So look again it was voted in with over eighty percent support in 1998.


80% of those that voted not 80% of those who could vote..


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

painterswife said:


> 80% of those that voted not 80% of those who could vote..


80% of the registered voters who freely choose to vote. No one had to walk by which Panthers to vote. The polls were opened to all regions. Voters. Are we now to force people to vote?.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

kasilofhome said:


> 80% of the registered voters who freely choose to vote. No one had to walk by Panthers of any color to vote. The polls were opened to all regions. Voters. Are we now to force people to vote?.



Also note there was no rioting or looting after the vote.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> 80% of the registered voters who freely choose to vote. No one had to walk by which Panthers to vote. The polls were opened to all regions. Voters. Are we now to force people to vote?.


I was clarifying the numbers only. Nothing more nothing less.


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## tlrnnp67 (Nov 5, 2006)

Attorney General Holder Announces Federal Government to Recognize Same-Sex Married Couples in Six Additional States

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attor...rnment-recognize-same-sex-married-couples-six


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

tlrnnp67 said:


> Attorney General Holder Announces Federal Government to Recognize Same-Sex Married Couples in Six Additional States
> 
> http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attor...rnment-recognize-same-sex-married-couples-six


Well that was fast and furious.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

kasilofhome said:


> Well that was fast and furious.


Well on a brighter note all these things that are taking place is no surprise to some . We know how it is going to end and it an't going to be pretty . At the most man only lives on earth a 120 years compared to eternity that is not even a blink of ones eye .:runforhills:


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

kasilofhome said:


> #25 of the alaskan state constitution. So look again it was voted in with over eighty percent support in 1998.


Ok, thanks, I found it this time.... it is there, but it also contradicts several other provisions in you constitution. So how about looking at the US Constitution.... Pay particular attention to article six paragraph 2.... oh here... I will bring it forward to save your time. 

"This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, *anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.*"

(bolding mine)


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Now look at the US constitution article one section 10 clause 1

Marriage IS a contract.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

kasilofhome said:


> #25 of the alaskan state constitution. So look again it was voted in with over eighty percent support in 1998.


Which is why the founding fathers of our once great nation opted to create a republic ruled by law rather than a democracy where the majority gets to dictate to the minorities when it comes to their rights. Even your good state Constitution recognizes that the basic rights of each and every citizen is to be protected.... from all governments and other citizens. Majority rule has a nasty habit of defiling those rights.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

kasilofhome said:


> Now look at the US constitution article one section 10 clause 1
> 
> Marriage IS a contract.


Yes it is, I will not quarrel with you on that point. But, if one citizen has the right to enter into a contract.... do not all other citizens have the same right to enter into thier own contracts? What makes your contract any more valid than someone elses? I have entered into many contracts during my lifetime, with all sorts of folks from all walks of life. What does that have to do with this issue?


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Jax-mom said:


> Has anyone here ever been to a wedding between two people of the same sex? Just curious.


Yep. Three, actually.

I guess I simply don't understand why this is an issue.
Legally speaking, people are guaranteed equal protections and rights under the constitution. Morally speaking, if something is against God, I have no doubt He will take care of it. 
Til then, I'm called upon to love others as Christ first loved me. 
And He didn't tell me I had to be fixed before He loved me. He just did it.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

kasilofhome said:


> So why is it ok to ban camping and gun carrying but to ban homosexual behavior not. They are life style choices.


If you've ever known a gay adolescent in extremely rural America, you would never believe it's a choice. No kid would EVER choose to put themselves in that position.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

kasilofhome said:


> So why is it ok to ban camping and gun carrying but to ban homosexual behavior not. They are life style choices.


It is NOT ok to ban camping or gun carrying, or smoking or having a beer or (name your vice here) Thats the whole thing in a nutshell. When 51 percent get to make the rules we end up with just such nonsense. This is exactly why everyone should be allowed to do what ever they please as long as they are not stepping on the next fellers toes.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Now look at the US constitution article one section 10 clause 1
> 
> Marriage IS a contract.


The Contract Clause prohibits states from enacting any law that retroactively impairs contract rights. 

Someone else's same sex marriage impacts your marriage contract how? In my opinion you won't get past the first round of court using that as a legal stick. You can prove no harm to your marriage by the allowing of ANYONE else's marriage contract.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Retro


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

There is legal grounds that this nullifies marriages prior to that ruling class action


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Think of gun law changes...where once legal then became illegal...


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Retro


You might want to say more than a part of a word. Otherwise we will have to assume what you mean and we might get it wrong.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> There is legal grounds that this nullifies marriages prior to that ruling class action


How? Where are those legal grounds? Care to share.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Think of gun law changes...where once legal then became illegal...


Nothing became illegal. If it did you might have a case.

Well maybe a law that was not allowed in the first place but no contract have been nullified.


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

Question? Gangsters and such in prison, if they sodimize someone else in the shower are they gay?
Have a nice day


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

My marriage agreement....contract was and still is for one man one woman... as is my state constitution. That was a term of the contract. That and only that was what I agreed to. In a min if I purchased and entered into a contract to own a condo that limited age as in a retirement home under how rules and at some date in the future the president of how and his friends on the board changed the terms to allow the residents to have minor children living there permanently has my contract been impacted.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

First couple got married here in the little town of Berkeley Springs WV and its front page of our once a week news paper.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

haley1 said:


> Question? Gangsters and such in prison, if they sodimize someone else in the shower are they gay?
> Have a nice day


What difference would it make ...heterosexual women can and do get raped as do homosexual women. The same would hold true to males of all sexual ilk.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> My marriage agreement....contract was and still is for one man one woman... as is my state constitution. That was a term of the contract. That and only that was what I agreed to. In a min if I purchased and entered into a contract to own a condo that limited age as in a retirement home under how rules and at some date in the future the president of how and his friends on the board changed the terms to allow the residents to have minor children living there permanently has my contract been impacted.


That is the most crazy comparison I have ever heard. Did you want to get married to someone of the same sex and agreed to a heterosexual marriage when you did not want to? I will add this. Allowing one purchaser to have minor children and disallowing others is giving benefit to one that the other does not have. You can get married to a same sex partner if you want. You are not being denied that opportunity.

How does some else getting married now to a same sex spouse actually change your marriage contract?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I see heterosexual people getting in front of the cameras every day saying how bad same sex marriage. Equal rights to say it is. Free speech whether you like it or not. The only difference is you get beat up less these days for being gay.


Every day???


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> How does some else getting married now to a same sex spouse actually change your marriage contract?


It doesnt.... It sounds to me like some folks in Alaska are grasping at straws in an effort to meddle in someone elses affairs.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I entered into a contract that clearly supported my support of one man one woman in know way would I want to show support for heterosexuals Marriage nor do I wish to show support still today for homosexual marriages. Being that I paid a fee.... consideration..and I have lived up to the terms of the contract I no longer have the same contract terms I agreed to. As such I will be seeking relief for the breach of the contract to the full extent I can.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> I entered into a contract that clearly supported my support of one man one woman in know way would I want to show support for heterosexuals Marriage nor do I wish to show support still today for homosexual marriages. Being that I paid a fee.... consideration..and I have lived up to the terms of the contract I no longer have the same contract terms I agreed to. As such I will be seeking relief for the breach of the contract to the full extent I can.


You entered into a contract for yourself. You have no legal right to dictate the terms of another couples contract. The state of Alaska has no right to deny same sex couple the same contract.

Your contract terms have not changed one iota. Good luck on proving harm. The same sex couples already proved they were harmed by not being able to have access to marriage contracts.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Three party contract in marriage. That is the factual reality. Harmed yes, I am now a member of an institution that no longer is congruent with my faith.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

kasilofhome said:


> Three party contract in marriage. That is the factual reality. Harmed yes, I am now a member of an institution that no longer is congruent with my faith.


Your contract is with your spouse, and possibly the state. It isnt changed in anyway whatsoever when the state opted to enter into "other" contracts with other people... or by the state recognizing others contracts. I do hope you are not investing a lot of money in pursuit of any litigation as I see it a losing proposition in the end. In my state one has to show actual damages in order to have a successful lawsuit. They are also not allowed to collect legal fees from the guilty party in the event they win their case.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Three party contract in marriage. That is the factual reality. Harmed yes, I am now a member of an institution that no longer is congruent with my faith.


 How would a lawsuit make you whole? That is what you are suing for. 

The State of Alaska entered into a contract with you that you and they believed to be legal at the time. It has since been proven to be illegal. Therefore if you ever really had a contract that could decree what other marriages are, your contract is now illegal.

To make you whole you can either dissolve your marriage or you can deny others the opportunity to get married to the spouse of their choice.

It has already gone through a court of law with many verdicts that you have no standing in someone else's marriage and that Alaska never had the right to make that contract with you. 

What do you expect the outcome to be?


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

kasilofhome said:


> My marriage agreement....contract was and still is for one man one woman... as is my state constitution. That was a term of the contract. That and only that was what I agreed to.


I like you, kasilof, but I really can't understand your position on this, and I've read a lot of your explanations. I don't see how your marriage contract has changed since your state's gay marriage ban was overturned.

Are you still married to your husband? Your marriage didn't dissolve when this happened, did it?

Is your husband still a man and are you still a woman? You didn't turn into a same sex couple when this happened, did you?

Out of curiosity, when did you get married?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Three party contract in marriage. That is the factual reality. Harmed yes, I am now a member of an institution that no longer is congruent with my faith.


I am curious are you getting divorced now because of this? That is if you don't win your court case.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

painterswife said:


> I am curious are you getting divorced now because of this? That is if you don't win your court case.


Good question...that's what I am wondering too. It would certainly get her out of this institution that is not congruent with her faith. Probably a lot cheaper than the lawsuit, too.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

jtbrandt said:


> Good question...that's what I am wondering too. It would certainly get her out of this institution that is not congruent with her faith. Probably a lot cheaper than the lawsuit, too.


In reality the State would probably grant her an annulment if she wished it. There is no way that Alaska or she can win this now. There are already same sex marriages and all those laws and amendments are on their side not hers. ( at least the legal ones)


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

The bigger question is how can she be sure that all of the other marriages in the state prior to the legalization of same sex marriages were congruent with her faith. How can others be sure that her marriage was congruent with their faith? Can Catholics claim some special harm because divorced people were allowed to marry? According to her logic has anyone in Alaska ever been legally married?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

mmoetc said:


> The bigger question is how can she be sure that all of the other marriages in the state prior to the legalization of same sex marriages were congruent with her faith. How can others be sure that her marriage was congruent with their faith? Can Catholics claim some special harm because divorced people were allowed to marry? According to her logic has anyone in Alaska ever been legally married?


I agree, the logic is beyond me. The only thing that can make her whole is to annul her marriage. Nothing is ever going to win the case she thinks she has.

Maybe she should try and sue Alaska as they entered into an illegal contract with her. She can get an annulment and claim damages.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

jtbrandt said:


> I like you, kasilof, but I really can't understand your position on this, and I've read a lot of your explanations. I don't see how your marriage contract has changed since your state's gay marriage ban was overturned.
> 
> Are you still married to your husband? Your marriage didn't dissolve when this happened, did it?
> 
> ...


Thank you. The terms changed and now that marriage is NOT ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN, and I never wanted that , I never agreed to that , there was no clause that allowed for such a change, due to have even more back up that I truly understood the paperwork there is the state constitution, and I am on the record having voted for that, I was vocal about it when it went on the ballot, and the contract is currently in effect, there IS precedential case law and prior court understanding of the US constitution.


This has not one bit of hateful Ness to homosexuals but I do not accept the changes to the term marriage. This personally impacts me. How I define myself ...hey sort the same deal that got us here. To simply do not wish to be lumped in an institution that show support for a sin in my faith. 

I can be assured that I with full knowledge of the contract fully understood and accepted to those terms and that the respected my faith. Now, events have happened and that clearly is not the case. 

I am against an annulment solution as I have kept to the terms place in the agreement from the state and governments. How a court resolves this .... I do not know the future. What do you stand for. What is important to you. When life gets hard do you fold. Is your faith blowing in the wind. 

Married shortly after the constitution of the state clarified A Term of marriage.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Thank you. The terms changed and now that marriage is NOT ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN, and I never wanted that , I never agreed to that , there was no clause that allowed for such a change, due to have even more back up that I truly understood the paperwork there is the state constitution, and I am on the record having voted for that, I was vocal about it when it went on the ballot, and the contract is currently in effect, there IS precedential case law and prior court understanding of the US constitution.
> 
> 
> This has not one bit of hateful Ness to homosexuals but I do not accept the changes to the term marriage. This personally impacts me. How I define myself ...hey sort the same deal that got us here. To simply do not wish to be lumped in an institution that show support for a sin in my faith.
> ...


You have an individual contract. Your contract has no clause that allows you to limit someone else's contract.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I can have an individual condo in a HOA complex for retire persons only and should child be allowed to live there I have standing.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Redefining a word in a contract often breaches the contract. The word marriage is in my contract refute that.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> I can have an individual condo in a HOA complex for retire persons only and should child be allowed to live there I have standing.


Yes, you can. That does not mean you can impose your marriage contract on anyone else. Just as if you got a business licence. The state can change the rules of new business licences but they can't change yours until your licence expires. They can however change the terms for all new ones. This goes for drivers licences, hunting licences etc.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Redefining a word in a contract often breaches the contract. The word marriage is in my contract refute that.


Then you can annul your contract. You can not however change or decree the terms of other's contracts.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Then you can annul your contract. You can not however change or decree the terms of other's contracts.


Like what happen to me can't happen. Pardon me but since I doubt you are licensed to practice law in Alaska I will stick with my legal counsel advise.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

My license expires at the death of my husband or I. The change does impact me. Should I be quiet and meek. If so why.

See I am


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

My license expires at the death of my husband or I. The change does impact me. Should I be quiet and meek. If so why.

See I am Christian and a proud heterosexual.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Like what happen to me can't happen. Pardon me but since I doubt you are licensed to practice law in Alaska I will stick with my legal counsel advise.


Being licensed as a lawyer in Alaska did not stop the lawyers from losing their on same sex marriage. I never asked to be your legal counsel either.

You did however enter this discussion on Wyoming and give reasons and statements that you had a legal case. I and others have shared our *opinions* on why we think you will lose.

You have yet to offer ( in my opinion) a case that can be won. You are grasping at straws and trying to makes ties to others contracts that you have no legal standing to do.

Read some of the cases on same sex marriage that were thrown out of court. They had no legal standing in anyone marriage but there own. They could prove no harm to their own marriage by someone else getting a same sex marriage licence.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> My license expires at the death of my husband or I. The change does impact me. Should I be quiet and meek. If so why.
> 
> See I am Christian and a proud heterosexual.


You have often said the Government should not be involved in marriage. So why are you fighting so hard to find a way to stop others who don't believe as you do? Why not just let them have their government registered marriage and you can have your church sanctioned one.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

In as much as this is an active and on going event for which I wish for to be successful not all information is yet to be pubic. I wish to give hope to those who truly are concerned about what impact this does have. 

There are solutions much is on hold for a few weeks. At which point things will be reassessed to as to the next course of action.

I am doing this because I stand for something. I would rather have tried and lost than never have stood for what I believe...yes, there are easier paths but my understanding as to where those paths lead guide me not to willing choose then.
I wish no harm to any homosexuals and I know personal many... my faith does not believe in collective salvation ...I have some connection, having been actively involved with Sirius and this as major concern to me. To do nothing when one can is also sin in my faith a sin of ommission. I only live my life as I see fit I refuse to conform to that which I oppose.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> In as much as this is an active and on going event for which I wish for to be successful not all information is yet to be pubic. I wish to give hope to those who truly are concerned about what impact this does have.
> 
> There are solutions much is on hold for a few weeks. At which point things will be reassessed to as to the next course of action.
> 
> ...


What will you do if you are not successful?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

kasilofhome said:


> Thanks but can you accept that my faith means NOT to lead someone to sin. Muslims kill. Why not focus energy in gaining support in limiting the killing of homosexuals to zero verses the constant attracts to alter Christians who not bake cakes to celebrate what the believe to be sin.



How many homosexuals have been beheaded by Muslims in the US?


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> Thank you. The terms changed and now that marriage is NOT ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN, and I never wanted that , I never agreed to that , there was no clause that allowed for such a change, due to have even more back up that I truly understood the paperwork there is the state constitution, and I am on the record having voted for that, I was vocal about it when it went on the ballot, and the contract is currently in effect, there IS precedential case law and prior court understanding of the US constitution.
> 
> 
> This has not one bit of hateful Ness to homosexuals but I do not accept the changes to the term marriage. This personally impacts me. How I define myself ...hey sort the same deal that got us here. To simply do not wish to be lumped in an institution that show support for a sin in my faith.
> ...


And what of those people who entered into marriage before the amendment? Were their contracts nullified by the change? 

Good for you for standing up for what you believe in. I just hope you're not paying that lawyer too much.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> To do nothing when one can is also sin in my faith a sin of ommission.


Do you go around badgering heterosexual couples who are contemplating divorce? Especially if they lack Biblical grounds for such? Because I have it on good authority that your God hates divorce. 

Why not start there, instead of with gay people? It seems there might be more fruit in preserving an existing marriage, especially one containing children.

I've noticed that people with Biblical arguments against gay marriage hardly ever bat an eyelash at all the heterosexuals merrily fornicating, shacking up and/or divorcing spouses of whom they've grown weary, in direct violation of 'God's word.' Why is gay 'sinfulness' such an issue, but straight misbehavior ... not so much?


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

kasilofhome said:


> Married shortly after the constitution of the state clarified A Term of marriage.


Thank you for your explanation. I still don't really "get" it, but I understand a little better where you're coming from. Another question for you...did you wait to get married until after the constitution was amended, or was that just a coincidence?


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## bigjon (Oct 2, 2013)

this topic should be under politics or cattle because theres a whole lotta (edited) being thrown.hetro or gay,u do not have to throw it in my face. your sexuality is your private business-please keep it private.gay folk want to be just like anybody else.i accept that.but do u have to be so loud about it? my neice has a saying that I just love:not my circus-not my monkeys.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

bigjon said:


> this topic should be under politics or cattle because theres a whole lotta (edited) being thrown.hetro or gay,u do not have to throw it in my face. your sexuality is your private business-please keep it private.gay folk want to be just like anybody else.i accept that.but do u have to be so loud about it? my neice has a saying that I just love:not my circus-not my monkeys.


Lots of heterosexual are just as load about it but of course that is okay because your used to it.

Women have been just as loud about getting their rights and celebrating not being second class citizens.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Do you go around badgering heterosexual couples who are contemplating divorce? Especially if they lack Biblical grounds for such? Because I have it on good authority that your God hates divorce.
> 
> Why not start there, instead of with gay people? It seems there might be more fruit in preserving an existing marriage, especially one containing children.
> 
> I've noticed that people with Biblical arguments against gay marriage hardly ever bat an eyelash at all the heterosexuals merrily fornicating, shacking up and/or divorcing spouses of whom they've grown weary, in direct violation of 'God's word.' Why is gay 'sinfulness' such an issue, but straight misbehavior ... not so much?


A lot of assumptions here. A lot of expecting me to do what prioritise my values to other persons values. Here is a thought you pick your battles and I will deal with mine. The path I choose is mine to make. Many will offer distractions, oh my I people may not like what I am doing,well so what. I do not like what others have done and they sleep well.

Homosexual includes males and females that is the correct word to use. In my faith that is unforgivable. So questions of that ilk are like why deal with cancer as the common cold impacts more people. 

I am glad to see that many of the church groups my son belongs to..ok all of them openly discuss that public display of affection of an intimate nature is front on as it is unnecessary and not something to partake in.

I had the pleasure of being taken out to brunch by a group of high school student seeking to get school dances cleaned up. The want the chaperones to be parents and the want more of them. Oh, half of the kids were class officers on the schools student government. The complained about the music....as one said...if we get detention for saying the words in the songs why are they allowed at dances. Their issue is that the adult leader of the student gov...run the dances and likes this as kid should burn off steam. The grinding causes many to sit around and watch the freak show ....Their words. 

They are told that some like it as it is and that is all that matters. These kids want to dance many of them belong to the dance club at school. 

It is a new school to us and many parents were outside as this year unlike other years only teachers chaperones were allowed.

See sexually expression does not have to be a public show. Many of the kids were datingcouples that took me out. Everyone of the kids have good paying jobs two have started their own business, my kid had the lowest gpa of the group. This group will most likely be in the future of the financially well off.....a and demonized for their success. Values do make a difference.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Yes, I do agree that PDA is not necessary.

I know about 10 people who are gay. Most of them you couldn't tell by looking at them what their orientation was. 2 of them (living in SF) were the 'loud and proud' types..more flamboyant. 

But anyway, the majority of them aren't the 'in your face' type. I don't like to see people making out in public - call me a prude, but it goes for both gay and straight. 

Oh, kasilofhome, that's an interesting point..I agree if they're not allowed to say certain words, they shouldn't be able to play the music. Most songs have a "clean" version that would most likely work just as well (though most of the kids will silently insert the offending word).


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

bigjon said:


> this topic should be under politics or cattle because theres a whole lotta bull---- being thrown.hetro or gay,u do not have to throw it in my face. your sexuality is your private business-please keep it private.gay folk want to be just like anybody else.i accept that.but do u have to be so loud about it? my neice has a saying that I just love:not my circus-not my monkeys.


I feel the same way about that, but that's really got nothing to do with this topic. Demanding equal treatment under the law is not throwing their sexuality in our faces.

And gay marriage would probably reduce those public displays of affection...who's more likely to be inappropriate in public...married people or or unmarried? Obviously unmarried. So let the gays get married and you'll see less of it.



kasilofhome said:


> I had the pleasure of being taken out to brunch by a group of high school student seeking to get school dances cleaned up. The want the chaperones to be parents and the want more of them. Oh, half of the kids were class officers on the schools student government. The complained about the music....as one said...if we get detention for saying the words in the songs why are they allowed at dances. Their issue is that the adult leader of the student gov...run the dances and likes this as kid should burn off steam. The grinding causes many to sit around and watch the freak show ....Their words.
> 
> They are told that some like it as it is and that is all that matters. These kids want to dance many of them belong to the dance club at school.
> 
> It is a new school to us and many parents were outside as this year unlike other years only teachers chaperones were allowed.


Sounds like you might have some pervert teachers who are enjoying the show...there should definitely be parents there.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

There is a scene cut from the Divine Secrets of the YaYa Sisterhood movie (you can see it at the end of the vhs)

A woman gets in the face of a mean, spiteful, nasty nun that runs a (forced)convent for (uppity, too pretty) girls ("to save their souls")----

"When Jesus Christ finds out he's married to you he's gonna want a divorce!"


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