# Update - Klutzy Pyr Mama



## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

I'm "bussing" puppies! The remaining three survivors now live in a laundry basket in the house. I take them out to mama every three hours, or when they start raising a ruckus. She's always happy to see them, lets them nurse, and cleans them well. We may get through this yet. They are now 5 days old.

Thanks to those who offered their support and invaluable advice.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

I guess I missed the start of this thread....you don't say what you mean by klutzy...? How did you lose the other pups? If she is laying on them, build (like many breeders do) a big whelping box, 6x6ft, with plastic pvc pipe on the inside, making a 'lip' that the pups can go under and get away from mamma if she rolls on them. It should be about 6" or so from the side, like an edge within the box. This way, she can't roll on them if they get under it and on the sides, it's a protective place for pups to sleep. That is my arguement for not letting moms whelp out in the brush or under rocks or just anywhere in a barn. They can roll on pups. Its not being clumsy either it just happens.

Is that what happened, did she roll on them? I would make a whelping box for next time, before I kept the pups away from her that much. What the mother imprints onto the babies in the few weeks of life is invaluable and can't be replicated by humans.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Thanks for your input, Goatress. Could you help me understand better? I don't see how the pups can get away from mama, and into the protected area once she plops down on them. 

The initial problem was spelled out in another thread titled "Pls Help! Pyrenees lying on puppies!" (Here is the post so you don't have to go look it up.)

Please don't flame me or blame me; I'm doing everything I know to do to help this litter survive.

Scenario: Two-year-old Great Pyrenees, first time mother. Litter of ten gorgeous pups born on March 29th. As of this afternoon, 4 PM, THREE PUPPIES are still alive! Mama just plunks herself down and smothers whoever is in the way of her bulk.

I've tried dividing up the litter, leaving half with her, and bringing half into the house, then switching every three hours or so. Mama has no problem with this. She feeds them and is very attentive to them, licking them and cleaning them well. She just isn't paying attention to where and how she lies down! PLUNK! Another dead pup!

I've been extremely vigilant, checking on her every three hours, round the clock, sometimes making a just-in-time rescue, and sometimes removing a suffocated DEAD pup.

Is there ANYTHING to help this situation? I have the remaining three 4-day-old pups in the house at the moment. Maybe I can just take them out to mama every few hours for feeding? Or might it be better to bottle-feed the remaining pups?

For what it's worth, mama has a clean, private location - a kidding pen within the goats' pen.

Any advice or help would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

No blaming or flaming here ma'am, I feel your frustration! She is young, first time, it can happen.....it's happened to many of us!!!! You can fix it....so hang in there....
Can someone you know or hubby or ??? knock together a box, even 5' x 5' would do with sides about a foot high. And within the box make bars out of pvc pipe or wood, giving pups the edges of the box to lay by which they'll like to do.....but momma can't, because the bar going along the side, but about 6 inches out, prevents her from getting to the edge of the box. I'm scrambling to get a photo of my whelping box uploaded now so I can show you an example. You'll see immediately what I mean. So stay tuned, let me get a pic up and loaded...be right back..in fact I'll even start another thread called whelping box for lgds....lol!


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

Google whelping box plans pictures - tons of available info!

http://www.mcemn.com/WB-WhelpingBox.html


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## jersey girl (Nov 21, 2005)

The whelping box sounds like a farrowing crate for hogs, just bigger. That is a great idea I never thought of. Thanks for the info.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

jersey girl said:


> The whelping box sounds like a farrowing crate for hogs, just bigger. That is a great idea I never thought of. Thanks for the info.


Got to this thread late ... yes, whelping box. I had this problem with some of my Rottweilers and my friend, who raised Saint Bernards always had issues with puppies getting laid on.

She usually sat with the ***** until she was through whelping, as they will lay on them as they get up and down whelping. With some, she did keep the pups separate especially for the first few days, would take them to the mother to nurse and be cleaned but would not leave them in with her, even with a whelping box. I can't remember now just how long this went on, I suppose it depended some on the mother and once the pups were a little more active as well, it wasn't as likely to happen.

But she always used one of the whelping boxes ... as you say, similar to a farrowing crate.


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