# .22 handgun. not happy with accuracy



## mooman (May 19, 2008)

Well I got the .22 Ruger Mark III target pistol I was saving for. I want to know what kind of groups I should expect at 15 yards. I'm a little disappointed with either myself or the gun at this point. Maybe I'm expecting to much? Have put about 60 rounds (Winchester bulk) through it. 

Also, I was thinking of throwing on a cheap red dot scope once I become proficient with the iron sights. Maybe a BSA. Any recommendations or opinions on red dots for pistols?


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

Here is a site that should help answer your question.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508221


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## dkhern (Nov 30, 2012)

at 15 yd id expect 1" or less off a bench by an experienced shooter. if not try different ammo. some guns shoot different ammo vastly differently


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Put the gun in a rest, or on a sandbag and give it a try. At 15 yards on a rest, you should be able to keep the holes touching with a nice gun... 

There is an issue with those Mark III's that would keep me from buying one.. 

Notice in this video how the bolt bounces... I don't know, but to me, that could create some accuracy issues.. Either maybe from the added bounce, or maybe since the new round it chambered is being pushed in and out of the chamber, possibly deforming the slug... I have never seen a bolt bounce around like this on another gun... 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LzGv369biw[/ame]


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

I have a ruger mark II and have never seen it bounce. Of course I have never seen it in slow motion. Very interesting video.
I will do some checking on another rimfire site.


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

Practice. My Mark II is quite accurate. Bolt bounce happens after bullet has left the muzzle so no big deal.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

True, but then the new round is bouncing back and forth in the chamber, and I can't believe that isn't distorting the lead of the new round..


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

Once the round is chambered the bullet can't be damaged by anything the bolt does. The round, the chamber and the bolt are in alignment anyway so the bullet itself shouldn't be damaged no matter how many times it bounces.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

Here are a few responses from another rimfire site


http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4639313#post4639313


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

I have a Ruger Mark 1. It's is really accurate but the brand of ammo and how clean it is make a huge difference in accuracy.

One time I bought a few boxes of the "match" ammo from Midway, Ely I believe the brand and it made 50% tighter groups. Federal 22 shells shoot the best in mine even more than some of the other more expensive.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

like others said about an inch from a bench with sand bags

try several ammo's , i know hard to find any right now , they can be very ammo specific 

but if your over 2 inches at 15 yards it's probably a human problem , it is a lot harder , takes more skill to shoot pistol than rifle well at least at 22 distances.

most people squeeze the hole hand when they squeeze the trigger , this makes only a small difference on a rifle because your other hand is holding the rifle steady , but on a pistol , it is huge , the longer or heavier the trigger travel and pull the more work you need to move the trigger finger independent from the rest of your hand


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## Bentley (Jul 10, 2008)

I have a benelli neos model U-22 with iron sights. It's a neat little gun, but is not the quality of the Ruger.
My Neos will shoot a 1" group shooting offhand, standing from 12 yards. I have not shot it from a bench rest yet. Not sure where your skill level is, but using the proper grip is paramount to accuracy

B


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

I have a Ruger MkIII 22/45. It's the only gun I've ever seen that will come close to matching my FILs High Standard Supermatic. With good ammo, on a good day, I'd expect groups of an inch or under at 15 yards. Anything bigger is likely me or ammo the gun doesn't like. It's not the gun.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

25 yards used to be the standard distance for pistol shooting, and how most groups were compared. Most decent 22 pistols should shoot 1 1/2" groups with ammo they like* at that distance, some will do better . The bullseye shooters shoot at 50 yards also, and can do some remarkable shooting at 50 yards.

* "ammo they like" doesnt mean what's cheapest, it means testing a variety of ammo and seeing what groups best under ideal conditions. Two identical guns may shoot a particular brand or type ammo entirely differently. It's very individual, though better target grade ammo often shoots better in general.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Are you focusing on the front sight or the target?
I don't mean to question your experience, but that seems to be the hardest part for new pistol shooters. If the target is in focus when the hammer drops, you WILL miss (or at least not hit as close to center as you intended). Grip, stance, and follow-through all affect accuracy, but don't seem to have as much effect as proper focus. 

It takes practice to achieve as muscle memory, but your focus procedure needs to be:
1 - focus on the target, where you want to hit it.
2 - bring the gun up into alignment with the target and your eye.
3 - let the target go fuzzy, and make the front sight become sharp.
4 - send the round.
5 - hold position a moment. 
6 - Rinse and repeat.

At first, shifting focus to your front sight will feel weird, but it will become natural in time. I find that when I do not shoot pistol for a while, I have to remind myself.

A red dot will simplfy shooting the pistol, but it will make it more cumbersome. I keep a well used MkII in a clip-on holster in a kitchen drawer and it pretty much goes everywhere on the property that I do. If I had an optic on it, I would likely enjoy carrying it less.

I would definitely expend more rounds before I would write the pistol off. I've owned a dozen or more Mk I/II/IIIs over the years, and worked on literally hundreds. I've never found one that did not shoot respectably. Even the thin, tapered barrel models that were popular in the I series shot, almost always, as well as the heavy barrel "target" models. It's a good platform and you will be very happy with it, if you do it the service of practicing with it.


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

Yeah, that's a fine weapon you've got, and about as time-proven a design as you'll find for a .22 handgun. I suppose it's possible you got one with an issue, but it's very unlikely.
You've gotten solid advice from the others....try a wide variety of ammo from a bench and bags. My 22/45 target model likes cheap-o Federal bulk and CCI mini-mags. For a little more $, groups shrink with standard-velocity Remington green tag.
Mine has to be clean as a whistle to shoot anywhere near it's potential, as in, bore cleaned after a coupla' magazines. No need for a field stripping here, just a squirt of Gun Scrubber and a once through with a bore snake.
I doubt the bolt movement is creating the accuracy problem, but you can check it out to eliminate the possibility....just fire it so it chambers a round, then carefully remove the round and inspect the bullet for distortion/gouging.


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

If you could find one of the rock solid handgun rests you lock a pistol into, you could truly determine if the gun is having issues. When they are locked up solid, they basically should put a bullet nearly thru the same hole shot after shot. There is no movement of the guns or sights ...just slight harmonics of the barrel from ignition changing the point of impact.
if the gun has issues .... you'll get flyers.
If it is not the gun ... you'll also get flyers ....
Ohio Rusty ><>

I know I'm paranoid ...... but am I paranoid _*enough*_ ?? ??


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

I have owned a few of the mark 1 and 2 and have never had a problem that was not induced by me.

That's the pistol that finally made me a fine ( at least in my own mind) pistol shot. Before my dominant eye was damaged, I was shooting running bunnies and things like wood chips thrown into the air with about a 75% success on the chips and better on the bunnies if they were reasonably near.

I found that the squeeze was the problem AND answer for me, and some others I taught. I agree, it's the finger, not the hand, and the speed that the finger travels after the beginning of the squeeze should not vary until the "pop". Entire squeeze should not take more than a second at the outside. The original sights treated me fine after I figured the whole thing out and before the eye injury.

I found that the left hand over the right needed to apply a tight grip while the right concerned itself with the trigger.

All this is just the "world of pistols, according to me" and may not apply to most other folks. This is a hard time for making a good hand with a pistol, because of the cost and scarcity of ammo, but I suggest that taking a lot of care with each shot will teach much more than shooting 50 rounds at each session.

One other thing. For me, in a hurry-up situation, I line up the sights while moving DOWN on the target, not up. Works much better for me, but of course, YMMV.......Joe


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

joebill said:


> I found that the left hand over the right needed to apply a tight grip while the right concerned itself with the trigger.


That is solid advice. Your off-hand should always provide the grip and "drive" the gun from target to target. Your strong hand is better able to put a controlled squeeze on the trigger if it doesn't have a death grip on the gun. 

(Assuming a right-handed shooter) Your left hand is the steering wheel, and your right hand is the gas pedal. Just like driving a car - you _grip_ the steering wheel and _touch_ the gas pedal.


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## Glade Runner (Aug 1, 2013)

You might try some Federal AutoMatch. It works for me in my Ruger.


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

With my MK I, I usually get less that 2 inch 5 shot groups standing at 15 yds. Mine is not picky about ammo and 3 out of 5 will usually enlarge the initial hole from a rest. Never seen a MK that was not pretty accurate.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Most firearms from a major manufacturer will shoot better than most shooters can take advantage of.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Sixty rounds? Good grief, you haven't even warmed up yet!

Mon


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## keyhole (Dec 2, 2008)

Did you buy this weapon for home defense or for some other reason?


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## credee (Aug 17, 2013)

have someone swiss load it for you, turning their backs, so you can't tell if they chambered a rd when they cycled the slide. Have them watch to see if the front sight twitches, or if you blink your eyes. 

Brace your back/neck on a tree, etc, have feet spread shoulder width or more apart, feet flat on the ground. Apply pressure to your wrists with the insides of your knees. Focus on the front sight. Sight picture must be very clear. Tell yourself that the gun is empty (sometimes it will be, when your friend swiss loads it) Control that trigger. Press it as carefully as you'd take a sliver of glass from your infant's eye, if you want real accuracy.

Have just the pad of your finger centered on the trigger. Rugers badly need an overtravel screw. Brownell's Supply sells the Clark steel trigger with a screw, or any smith can add one to your current trigger. I have use the sitting braced position to testfire a dozen such Rugers. Unless the muzzle crown is damaged, it should group 1" at 25 yds, center to center of the widest apart of 5 hits on the target, with decent ammo.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

Never heard the term "swiss load" before but I have used that with people many times. Shows that it is them rather than the rifle. We used to do that back in my high school days (50 years ago). Makes you a better shooter.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

In my personal opinion Learn to shoot from the hip and work at 2 inch groups at 50 feet , For homesteading/protection using whatever ammo you have this would be a goal , any thing else would be target shooting and a waste of time and money especially when ammo is so high if shooting paper targets will feed you go for it , Otherwise it's a waste! also those semi auto pistols are pretty but for general use as a homesteader you will be better served using a good revolver !


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

One person's waste is another persons hobby. I'll decide what I am wasting you decide what you are. .:happy:


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

Home defense against paper target invasions ?:run:


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

:rotfl:


Grumpy old man said:


> Home defense against paper target invasions ?:run:


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

You bet. I can shoot them in the eye at 100 yards!!! Guns are fun to shoot. You could go a lifetime without shooting one if you only shot home invaders!!


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

rod44 said:


> You bet. I can shoot them in the eye at 100 yards!!! Guns are fun to shoot. You could go a lifetime without shooting one if you only shot home invaders!!


Been shooting my whole life "grumpy old man " But the cost of ammo is still crazy around here and almost impossible to find , I have found good deals using armslist and slickguns :shocked:


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

Ammo hard to find here too. Especially when you figure out what kind of ammo your rifle prefers and you are limited to that one. My 10/22 like Remington Goldens and my Savage Mark II like CCI mini mags. Switch ammo and they shoot patterns instead of groups.:grump:


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## credee (Aug 17, 2013)

when it's about defense, the range is 10 ft, and you rarely have to fire at all, much less hit anyone, misses change a lot of minds! a pair of swiftly placed stinger 22's in the chest, work wonders, and beat 1 9mm to the gut, i'd say, most of the time, if the 9mm rd is ball military crud. .22 's are easier to use well, more likely to be there (if you get a pocket model like the HP22. and cost about 1/3rd as much money as the 9mm gun. spend that $200 savings on ammo and a bit of coaching and that .HP22 can do a fine job for you.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

All I have to do is RACK my 12 pump once and it will make the neighbors move away ! :bouncy:


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## credee (Aug 17, 2013)

that's a nice theory, but many people have no idea what that sound is. Others are too crazed, doped up, drunk, etc, to care.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

...and that sound might tell the armed home invader exactly which comer you're hiding around while you still have no idea where he is. 

People have been making that same tired statement about the sound of a pump shotgun being cycled forever. Personally, if there is someone within hearing distance that I want to know that I have a gun, I'd prefer to already have a round in the chamber- I'll just inform them verbally if I care for them to know.

It's just like the superhero gunslingers in the movies who chase the bad guy for 5 miles then, when they realize that they have him cornered, rack their shotgun/pistol for dramatic effect- and nothing comes out!!! They were carrying an unloaded gun for that whole chase scene!!! 

A gun with a loaded magazine and nothing in the chamber is just something for the CSIs to pick up off the floor so they can trace the outline of the dead homeowner.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> ...and that sound might tell the armed home invader exactly which comer you're hiding around while you still have no idea where he is.
> 
> People have been making that same tired statement about the sound of a pump shotgun being cycled forever. Personally, if there is someone within hearing distance that I want to know that I have a gun, I'd prefer to already have a round in the chamber- I'll just inform them verbally if I care for them to know.
> 
> ...



Don't take everything so serious gunmonkey ?


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## credee (Aug 17, 2013)

are you wearing ear and eye protection? I bet you are flinching. that Ruger .22 should make most, if not all of its shots touch each other, or hit a dime, at 15 yds. I'd have a friend video me, then look to see if I was batting my eyes or jerking the trigger. I'd also have him turn his back to me for each shot, with my .22, cycle the bolt, holding the mag catch so it doesn't click, and hand the gun to me, so that I'd not know if its chamber was loaded or not. watch your front sight carefully, to see if it twitches on the drysnaps.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

Credee - that is the way we got over flinching when I was younger. Let someone else load or not load it and then get the big HA HA if you flinched on an empty chamber. I'm really good now (at 69) at keeping my eye open. Can even see the egg blow up from the ,22 bullet when I hit it at 100 yards.


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## credee (Aug 17, 2013)

yes, with proper practice, and a trigger job, that Ruger (or a Browning bucmark, highstandard,etc, will group 1.5" at 50 yds, with it's favorite ammo. Cooper scoped a tapered barrel, 6.7" Ruger .22 auto, back in the day, and used to hit eggs at 100 yds, often enough to impress anyone. you never really "get over" a flinch, but you can reduce the severity and % of the time it occcurs.  best to wear ear and eye protection right from the start and always (even when hunting) and never let the gun hurt you. Experiency pain when you shoot QUICKLY drives a flinch into a PERMANENT 'groove" in your brain, subconscious levels. So also, be careful where you put your hands, etc. I've been burned by the flashgap of revolvers, and hurt by the slide's movment on autos, hammer pinch on old 1911's, etc.


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