# WARNING: "Day of Action" in Atlanta This Weekend



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

http://www.dayofactionmovement.org/

*SATURDAY, APRIL 23RD PROMISES TO BE A BIG DAY AS BLACKS NATIONALLY AND WORLDWIDE TAKE TO THE STREETS TO JOIN THE INTERNATIONAL TIDE AND STRUGGLE OF REVOLUTION AND CHANGE THAT IS SWEEPING THE PLANET. On the âThe National Day of Action and Unity,â SATURDAY, APRIL 23RD, we will rally, march, demonstrate, protest, educate and confront injustices like never before in over 60 cities. These cities and nations include: New York, NY; South Africa (Azania); Washington, DC; Atlanta, GA; Chicago, IL; Gambia, Africa; Norfolk, VA,; London UK; St. Louis, MO; France; Baton Rouge, LA; Nashville, TN; Lebanon, TN; Newark, NJ; Philadelphia, PA; Atlanta, GA; Dallas, TX; Lakeland, FL; Athens, GA; Guyana-South America; Charlotte, NC; San Antonio, TX; Detroit, MI, Trenton NJ, Milwaukee, WI; Hartford, Ct; Selma, AL: Oakland, CA; Houston, TX; Charleston, WV; Morgantown, WV, Birmingham, AL, Tampa, FL, Wilmington, NC; Baltimore, MD; Harrisburg, PA; Milwaukee, WI; tTrenton, NJ; jjJacksonville, FL; Chicago, IL; Louisvillek, KY; Watts, CA; Los Angeles, CA; Raleigh, NC; Columbia, SC ; Augusta GA; Tampa, FL, Selma AL, St. Petersburg , FL; Irvington , NJ; Brooklyn, NY; and many more. *

This was mostly just rhetoric until this past Sunday when a gang of teenagers boarded a MARTA train in Atlanta and beat the heck out of two other passengers while chanting New Black Panther rhetoric.

Today is a good day to buy ammo.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

I was going to post this yesterday but decided against it because, as you said, it just sounded like so much rhetoric. I'd not heard about the beating in Atlanta.

The only part that bothered me was this portion on their 'News Center' page:


> WE ARE FURTHERMORE OFFENDED THAT THE MISSISSIPPI TEA PARTY CHOSE THE DATE OF APRIL 23RD, WHICH IS OUR NATIONAL-INTERNATIONAL DAY OF UNITY, WHERE WE ARE HOLDING OVER 60 RALLIES IN AMERICA AND WORLD WIDE.
> 
> THEREFORE ,ON THIS DAY OF ACTION ON APRIL 23RD, IN SOUTHHAVEN MISSISSIPPI, WE ARE SENDING SOLDIERS, SOME OF WHOM WILL BE LEGALLY AND CONSTITUTIONALLY BEARING ARMS, ACCORDING TO THE SECOND AMENDMENT, TO DEFEND AND PROTECT OUR FAMILY IN THE NATION OF ISLAM. THE NATION OF ISLAM DOES NOT CARRY WEAPONS. THE MISSISSIPPI TEA PARTY IS WELL ARMED AND MAKING THREATS.
> 
> WE ARE WARNING THE TEA PARTY THAT IF ANY HARM COME TO ONE NOI MUSLIM, OR OTHER BLACK PERSON, THERE WILL BE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES FROM OUR MOVEMENT.


I will admit, some of the things coming out of the MI Tea Party are provocative. I'd hate to see this turn violent.


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## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

You forgot to post the rest of the page. 

What strikes me is that if you turn a few words from 'Black" to "Taxpayer" it sounds like a Tea Party Rally. 


The April 23rd Day of Action is supported by Students and Youth, membership of the of Black Church,The Ordinary peoples society, the New Black Panther Party, Nation of Islam, National Black United Front, National Action Network, Moorish Science Temple of America, Rainbow Push Coalition, 100 Black men inc, NAACP, Malcolm x grassroots movement ,A. Philip Randolph Institute,Afro-American Hist. & Genealogical Soc. Inc,Black Women's Network,Blacks In Government,Congressional Black Caucus Foundation Inc,Harvard Black Law Students Association,Nat'l. Alliance of Black School Educators,Nat'l. Assn. of Black Journalists,Natl. Juneteenth Observance Foundation,The Organization of Black Airline Pilots Inc,Nat'l. Coalition-Blacks for Reparations in Am,A. Philip Randolph Institute



Our people proclaim that there are serious problems that exist within our communities and nations that if left unaddressed will continue to plague Black people all over the world. While America bombs Libya our condition is deteriorating at home and is left largely ignored. Africa and the problems in our Motherland are blatantly ignored by the world, the U.S. Government and even us.

âThe National Day of Action and Unityâ will bring to attention the plight of so many who are uneducated, exploited, behind prison walls, disunited , in poor health, homeless, victims of police brutality, pimped by crooked politicians, tortured, falsely accused, under developed, morally perverse, apathetic, addicted to drugs and alcohol, victims of harsh budget cuts and genocide. Special attention will be given to victims of neo-colonialism, corrupt governments, imperialism, Zionism, capitalism and inadequate concern for the Diaspora of Africa. The injustice of Oscar Grant and the plight of political prisoners and the wrongfully accused from Black and indigenous nations will be a key rallying point. Please read enclosed complete April 23rd Day of Action and Unity Mission Statement.â

THE DAY OF ACTION AND UNITY ORGANIZERS ARE ALSO CALLING FOR A BUY BLACK ONLY CAMPAIGN AND A BOYCOTT OF ALL NON-BLACK BUSINESSES FOR THE WEEKEND OF APRIL 23RD.

To the Authorities, donât worry about who is organizing it. This is organized by the people and for the people. This is organized by a new younger leadership un-approved by our former slave or colonial master. We are grassroots activists, youths, residents, union members, community residents, spiritual people, revolutionaries and freedom fighters who have decided to take a stand together April 23rd. The call of Dr. Malik Zulu Shabazz has resonated with the disillusioned all over the earth. 
Historically knowing the odds against we have no choice but to take action in a manner. Our position on this is to remain silent, stagnant and on the sidelines is no longer an option.

April 23rd, 2011 we are taking vigilantly to the streets, police stations, projects, courthouses, State Capitols, houses of racists, morgues, jails and anywhere our people can be found and the fight can be found for justice! We will rattle the enemy and those who are asleep to show and prove the world we are wide-awake!
Our demands are immediate and non-negotiable
BLACK POWER AND ALL POWER TO THE PEOPLE


The rest of the website has locations for the rally. I know the place in St.Louis is a teeny tiny park in the middle of a black neighborhood. I doubt more than 200 people standing shoulder to shoulder could fit in there.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

ughhh- Harrisburg- and Philly here in Pa- why does that not surprise me?


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

What I haven't quite figured out yet is, exactly what _are_ their 'demands'?


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

"Special attention will be given to victims of neo-colonialism, corrupt governments, imperialism, Zionism, capitalism and inadequate concern for the Diaspora of Africa."

Um this doesn't sound like any tax payer that I know....unless I'm just reading that completely wrong.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Txsteader said:

What I haven't quite figured out yet is, exactly what are their 'demands'

**********************************************************************************************
That all the white devils give them what they 'deserve'. Depending on how you look at that, they'll get it.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Not in the mood for any liberal nonsense about this, and I'm sure Angie isn't going to let this turn into a political thread.

Suffice it to say that this news coming to my email box warranted a trip to the store to buy a few more boxes of ammo.


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

I don't care what color they are, it's the tone of the writing.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

whiskeylivewire said:


> I don't care what color they are, it's the tone of the writing.


The New Black Panther is a pretty scary group. Those were the guys outside of a polling station in 2008 with batons. They've been recently emboldened by the charges being dropped against them for that and other crimes.

You should consider them in the same threat category as MS-13 (West Coast) or the Zetas (South Texas). There's a small core of very radical revolutionaries surrounded by a lot of misguided opportunists.


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

Ernie said:


> The New Black Panther is a pretty scary group. Those were the guys outside of a polling station in 2008 with batons. They've been recently emboldened by the charges being dropped against them for that and other crimes.
> 
> You should consider them in the same threat category as MS-13 (West Coast) or the Zetas (South Texas). There's a small core of very radical revolutionaries surrounded by a lot of misguided opportunists.


I have a feeling that as it gets worse, more groups like this will form. People who are hungry and scared will always turn to someone who they think is stronger and a leader. Sadly, they sometimes pick the wrong person to follow.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Ernie said:


> The New Black Panther is a pretty scary group. Those were the guys outside of a polling station in 2008 with batons. They've been recently emboldened by the charges being dropped against them for that and other crimes.
> 
> You should consider them in the same threat category as MS-13 (West Coast) or the Zetas (South Texas). There's a small core of very radical revolutionaries surrounded by a lot of misguided opportunists.


 I went to school with one of the folks at the polling station. These guys aren't stable if this one fella is any example.
I also went to school with a lot of kids raised under 'The Nation'. The only thing they want to be rid of white people. That's not a joke, they simply hate white people. It's not even a religious thing ( though they hid behind Islam as cover) it's no different than the KKK or Neo Nazis.
The difference is we haven't been allowed to speak against them or we're all racist. 

To the folks in those areas named, or areas near... Be prepared. It's likely this doesn't amount to much, but...


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Shouldn't this thread have been started in the political forum?


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

If you look at it as an anarchy situation then it's perfect for here. Ernie was giving me a brief summary of the group but it wasn't meant to be a "political" talking point.


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## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

I remeber the riots in the 70's and having the schools hosed down by the fire dept. It was scary but faded. But with today being so able to quickly communicate a fire can well take off like a serious wildfire.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

KnowOneSpecial said:


> victims of harsh budget cuts and genocide.


You just can't make this stuff up! :hysterical:ound:


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## bigfoot2you (Oct 3, 2007)

OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!! :fussin: Isn't there ENOUGH mess going on right now without this crap? :grump:

I QUIT!!!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Dutchie said:


> Shouldn't this thread have been started in the political forum?


Not necessarily. Here because it's a warning of possible rough action in parts of the country. And what to do to be safe if it does get rough.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

AngieM2 said:


> Not necessarily. Here because it's a warning of possible rough action in parts of the country. And what to do to be safe if it does get rough.


confronting with armed response would be a sure way to escalate . Though thats no doubt what some are hoping for 

as any parent knows tantrums are best dealt with by ignoring the screaming and foot stomping , takes the air right out of the sails when they dont get any attention


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

So........stay out of the cities? Make sure we are prepared for civil disobedience?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> So........stay out of the cities? Make sure we are prepared for civil disobedience?


Well, the first one may be unavoidable to some of you. So if you must, be watchful, wary, and prepared.

As to the second, that's a given always.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Indiana is not on the list.....should I exhale?


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

Txsteader said:


> What I haven't quite figured out yet is, exactly what _are_ their 'demands'?


From the Mission Statement page:

"Therefore, our demand is an immediate, non-negotiable demand for Power, Human Rights, Freedom, Justice, Equality and Self Determination for Black Peoples. Our demand is for a Nation and world of our own, with Africa as our Free and Independent motherland. All of the above must be achieved by any means necessary.

All forms of enemy imposed and self- imposed oppression be identified, attacked and neutralized at once."

They want their own country? :shrug:

It's good to have advanced knowledge this is going on. Be prepared to either avoid those area's or be able to protect yourself if needed and unable to avoid.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

PyroDon said:


> confronting with armed response would be a sure way to escalate . Though thats no doubt what some are hoping for
> 
> as any parent knows tantrums are best dealt with by ignoring the screaming and foot stomping , takes the air right out of the sails when they dont get any attention


 And sometimes you have to slap a butt and send a kid to his room...

Riots or violence will not be tolerated...


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Deleted.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Methinks this situation could be a tad bit worse than a temper tantrum. I really could care less what a person looks like. Do not get that sense from the literature from that group, think looks are real important.
That is just plain scarey. Hatred and anger combine into evil, and that formula is colorblind.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

InvalidID said:


> And sometimes you have to slap a butt and send a kid to his room...
> 
> Riots or violence will not be tolerated...


More often than not riots start when some idiot throws a punch against a peaceful demonstrator or the authorities get over zealous .
personally Id be far more worried that some idiot would throw gas on the candle in hopes of starting some kind of race war .
what screams set up to me is all the so called "officials" and agencies who are supposedly in support


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## AR Cattails (Dec 22, 2005)

tab said:


> Methinks this situation could be a tad bit worse than a temper tantrum. I really could care less what a person looks like. Do not get that sense from the literature from that group, think looks are real important.
> That is just plain scarey. Hatred and anger combine into evil, and that formula is colorblind.


I agree. This is scary. I don't expect anything around where I live but I am going to send this article to people I know to make sure that they are aware of the dangers of this Saturday and to be prepared. 

Thanks for letting us know, Ernie.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Indiana is not on the list.....should I exhale?


I wouldn't. I work a step away from Chicago  I drive to work through Gary...(pretty much the murder capital of the US  ) so these areas are violent anyway, it would be like taking a match to gasoline if something were to go down. I'm glad I will be home that day.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

time said:


> From the Mission Statement page:
> 
> "Therefore, our demand is an immediate, non-negotiable demand for Power, Human Rights, Freedom, Justice, Equality and Self Determination for Black Peoples. Our demand is for a Nation and world of our own, with Africa as our Free and Independent motherland. All of the above must be achieved by any means necessary.
> 
> ...


Not only a country, they want to WORLD. :smack


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

To me, (this is just me) it's not "scary", it just "IS".

Be aware of it and go about your day. If you're in THAT area, have a heightened awareness. It's just news. What we chose to do with the news is what will steer this ship.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

NickieL said:


> I wouldn't. I work a step away from Chicago  I drive to work through Gary...(pretty much the murder capital of the US  ) so these areas are violent anyway, it would be like taking a match to gasoline if something were to go down. I'm glad I will be home that day.


YIKES GARY!
This is the first I have heard of this......which is not surprising, because I watch zero tv / listen to the radio, hardly ever.....and read the paper....never.
Being out in the boonies is such....such a blessing.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

yup, gary. I'm trying to find work closser to me, i've been putting in resumes. I hope to hear something soon. If there was some kind of disaster and I had to make my way home by foot, I would not want to have to walk through Gary!


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

NickieL said:


> yup, gary. I'm trying to find work closser to me, i've been putting in resumes. I hope to hear something soon. If there was some kind of disaster and I had to make my way home by foot, I would not want to have to walk through Gary!


Even if there wasn't a disaster, I wouldn't want to walk through Gary.

A bicycle might be your best friend to carry in your car.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

NickieL said:


> yup, gary. I'm trying to find work closser to me, i've been putting in resumes. I hope to hear something soon. If there was some kind of disaster and I had to make my way home by foot, I would not want to have to walk through Gary!


There would be no walking.......:grin:
Be safe!


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

> we are taking vigilantly to the streets, police stations, projects, courthouses, State Capitols, houses of racists, *morgues*, jails and anywhere our people can be found


Okay, not to make light of this but ..... morgues? Why would they go to morgues?

.


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## NewGround (Dec 19, 2010)

Best to keep your powder dry (assuming you have powder) let them (and anyone else) show themselves for who they are. This is part of a planned event so don't fall into their trap. As always be vigilant, self defense is a right if cornered but don't go purposely walking into a corner...


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

I'll be in Tampa Saturday, I'll keep's ya posted...


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

We ain't seen the worst of it, yet.

http://yarnbombing.com/


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

InvalidID said:


> I also went to school with a lot of kids raised under 'The Nation'. The only thing they want to be rid of white people. That's not a joke, they simply hate white people. It's not even a religious thing ( though they hid behind Islam as cover) it's no different than the KKK or Neo Nazis.


In the beginning, the Nation of Islam was more about black pride first and empowerment/self-sufficiency second rather than the teachings of the Quoran. In fact, to other sects of Muslims, the ways of the Nation aren't really recognized as being Islamic. When NOI was founded, African-American men were still being lynched for having the audacity to look at a white woman, so the emphasis was placed on building up the esteem of downtrodden men to get them to the point where they could become empowered to change their destiny.

The Nation is changing...Today their ideas have sort of seen a reversal. They are now more about empowerment/self-sufficiency first and then black pride. I think that it is a sign of the times. African Americans actually do have outlets to learn about their history, now. It wasn't like that 70 years ago.

Similar to the way that HT preaches self-sufficiency, The Nation preaches a cultural self-sufficiency that requires higher education in the form of college, internet research, books, learning from others, etc...Members are encouraged to learn as much as they can about the things that interest them and to parlay those interests into businesses that can sustain the African American community.

While HT teaches people to become self-sufficient by growing your own food, the Nation teaches black people to make their urban communities self sufficient by operating businesses that keep the earned dollars within the community rather than sending them out to other other more affluent areas. As a result, there are many businesses run by Nation members that would never be seen in a white neighborhood because culturally, those business ideas might not hold the broader appeal. In my neighborhood, we have a bakery that makes bean pies. I don't like pie in any form, but if I wanted one, I could not get one from any white owned bakery. It is a cultural thing.

When it comes to providing security, the Nation of Islam is superb. Many Nation sects are in the business of providing security. Some years ago, there was a 60 Minute piece about their work in Cabrini Green. It was quite enlightening. In my city, they get alot of contracts for large concert venues due to their professionalism and the courtesy that they show to the patrons. They perform their duties in suits with bowties and that serves as a reminder to them to stay above the fray. They don't use weapons in their endeavors because they don't need to. 

While there was a lot of anti-white rhetoric from the Nation during the 60's and 70's... Today the Nation just wants to be able to build a viable society in which they are able to provide for their own needs. There has been alot of disinvestment in the black communities by whites, the members of the Nation want to be able to provide the neighborhoods with infill businesses to create jobs and opportunities.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> So........stay out of the cities? Make sure we are prepared for civil disobedience?


SOP for texican, regardless of the situation.

You can never have too much ammunition...

I have stocked quite a few magic bullets... they are completely race neutral. Take what's mine, and they don't care if your white, tan, brown, black, or yellow.

Any hyphenated group, in America, that's dissatisfied with their condition here, should have an all expenses paid repatriation to their original homeland.

If a lot of folks who are unhappy with their lot, would ponder why they are in the condition they are, and do it from a political standpoint, they might see 'change' is relatively easy... just vote differently...


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

TheMartianChick - thank you for the well presented, thoughtful post about this.
Angie


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

AngieM2 said:


> TheMartianChick - thank you for the well presented, thoughtful post about this.
> Angie


You're welcome!


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

MartianChick, ditto what Angie said - that was an excellent post, thanks for posting that. :goodjob:





Oggie said:


> We ain't seen the worst of it, yet.
> 
> http://yarnbombing.com/


Oh, gosh, Oggie, now you've gone and let one of Vancouver's peace cats out of the yarn bag. :teehee:

.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

I live about an hour from Atlanta. I hope if there is trouble, it will stay there and not spill over to surrounding towns.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I hope everyone stays peaceful. It is a right of this country to rally peacefully. I have no beef with anyone who wishes to do so. Just keep the violence out of it, it cheepens the cause big time.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> "Therefore, *our demand *is an immediate, non-negotiable demand for Power, Human Rights, Freedom, Justice, Equality and Self Determination for Black Peoples. Our demand is for a Nation and *world of our own*, with Africa as our Free and Independent motherland. All of the above must be achieved *by any means necessary*.


They can have my part of the world...if they can *take* it


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

Ugh we are maybe 20 miles outside of Atlanta, and there has been a surge in violence here since we have been living here(almost 3 years). It really is bad enough here without them stirring the racial pot. There's no work here as it is and we've gained thousands of new residents from other states looking for work here too. All we need is more violence to add to our troubles right? What I don't understand is why is this just a black thing when we are ALL Americans and ALL in this together? They act like it is just the black community that is hurting but it is all of us. Together we stand, divided we fall still rings true today. We are all in trouble as a country, as for boycotting businesses I guess they'd be ----ed if we did the same. I will definately NOT be in Atlanta this weekend!


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## jerrwhy (Jan 12, 2010)

Meh! They're having a rally in Jacksonville this weekend and frankly I'm not terribly worried about. They'll be some guy with on a microphone whining and crying about how bad his life is and that something must be done about it by someone other than himself. Meh!


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> YIKES GARY!
> This is the first I have heard of this......which is not surprising, because I watch zero tv / listen to the radio, hardly ever.....and read the paper....never.
> Being out in the boonies is such....such a blessing.


I do all those things and this is the first I heard of it too. My guess is that this is all wishful thinking and you will hear nothing more of it.


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## michelleIL (Aug 29, 2004)

I looked on cnn and there was nothing there, so it might be more talk than anything!


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## Trixters_muse (Jan 29, 2008)

That meeting site here in Jacksonville is 10 minutes away from me....Lovely

Hopefully it won't get nasty. As fate would have it, I will be on the other side of town attending a family gathering.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Oggie said:


> We ain't seen the worst of it, yet.
> 
> http://yarnbombing.com/


:lookout:


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I used to live in Howell Michigan. The KKK was a biggie there, we would have to put up with their protests all the time at the Courthouse. There would be Police snipers of top of all the buildings, huge amounts of fencing brought in and I have no clue how many Police officers. These protesters had to be protected from the regular people, because the KKK would try to incite violence. One year the Police would not let anyone within eyesight of the courthouse area while the KKK was there. So basically -noone showed up, the KKK didn't get what they want - and no more protests since.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

I live in Utah....I think its safe for me to go out and about tomorrow.....


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

bluemoonluck said:


> I live in Utah....I think its safe for me to go out and about tomorrow.....


Yeah, Utah isn't known as a New Black Panther stronghold. Watch out for a Mormon "Day of Rage" though.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Ernie said:


> Yeah, Utah isn't known as a New Black Panther stronghold. Watch out for a Mormon "Day of Rage" though.


Maybe the Kill the Caffeine Infidels Rally?


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

ladybug said:


> What I don't understand is why is this just a black thing when we are ALL Americans and ALL in this together? They act like it is just the black community that is hurting but it is all of us. Together we stand, divided we fall still rings true today. We are all in trouble as a country, as for boycotting businesses I guess they'd be ----ed if we did the same. I will definately NOT be in Atlanta this weekend!


The black community feels that there are certain issues that are largely ignored by the media and the politicians. While there are many issues that are shared by all Americans, there are others that are never addressed because they are not perceived to affect whites. Some may even be issues that whites WOULD be willing to support, but they don't know about them.

My husband is raging about one such issue this morning. When black children go missing or are murdered, there is very little tv coverage. He's been scanning the news all morning to find a news story about a missing black girl who has been found dead. This is probably one of the best publicized cases about a black teen and yet the story hasn't gotten much tv coverage since her body was discovered.

This is an example of an issue that I believe that white people could probably get behind, but I believe that many don't realize that it occurs or understand how common the issue is in the black community.

When black parents report missing children, the police tend to take the reports and then assume that the child must be a runaway or hooked on drugs. The child's history doesn't seem to matter...straight A's, honor society, star athlete, etc...Very little effort is made to find them in many jurisdictions and this isn't something that only occurs in the North or the South...It happens everywhere.

Here is an article about the case:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...ield-new-leads/2011/04/22/AFbCl0OE_story.html


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Ernie said:


> Yeah, Utah isn't known as a New Black Panther stronghold. Watch out for a Mormon "Day of Rage" though.


<snort> yeah, that's a real crazy day....... :smiley-laughing013:



seedspreader said:


> Maybe the Kill the Caffeine Infidels Rally?


Nah, my (very) LDS boss just sighs patiently and shakes his head when I pop the top on my 4th Diet Coke of the day.... he only really gets his panties in a wad when I work on Sunday's (sometimes I have to do some weekend comp time to catch up on my paperwork).

Seriously, Utah is about as white-bread as they come. I was asking one of our co-workers a question yesterday about the upcoming diversity training, and she said "I'm a white Mormon pregnant female who lives in Utah...of course I need diversity training!"

Our biggest problem in all honesty is "undocumented" (ie ILLEGAL) workers. We have a booming hispanic population, and lots of places are only hiring bilingual workers anymore.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

TMC, the media ignores anything that doesn't fit their agenda. A black child missing is ignored unless they can find that a white man did it. Preferably a wealthy businessman or a Christian.

The media is not anyone's friend, black or white.


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## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

They'd riot if they got the same treatment as whites. They'd lose out on the stuff they get because of their race. I'm also curious why some of the cities were listed multiple times unless there's multiple events in each city


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Ernie said:


> TMC, the media ignores anything that doesn't fit their agenda. A black child missing is ignored unless they can find that a white man did it. Preferably a wealthy businessman or a Christian.
> 
> The media is not anyone's friend, black or white.


My husband wholeheartedly agrees with you on that, Ernie!


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Usingmyrights said:


> They'd riot if they got the same treatment as whites. They'd lose out on the stuff they get because of their race. I'm also curious why some of the cities were listed multiple times unless there's multiple events in each city


I can't think of anything that I've ever received as a result of being black, except a hard time! I've always had to perform better than everyone else in order to be perceived as half as good. There have been times when people assumed that I was the beneficiary of some sort of Affirmative Action type of program, but I have not.

As a child, I often performed in piano competitions. People assumed that I somehow arrived there as a result of an inner-city youth program! I was not raised in a city and my parents paid good money for my musical education. Once I had performed, I was given grudging respect.

When I won a competitive scholarship to a business college, many assumed incorrectly that my test had been graded on a curve, somehow. The truth was that I received a perfect score.

When I call ahead to make an appointment at a professional office, my reputation and credentials usually precede me. When I arrive, some people are particularly surprised by my ethnicity. For that reason, there aren't that many photos of me on the internet. I don't want doors to be closed to me before I have a chance to demonstrate my worth to an organization.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I used to work with this woman. She was stunningly beautiful and very large breasted. I remember the first time I met her. I was sitting at a table with a bunch of other engineers and she was new to our team. When she left, the other engineers launched in on how they "knew why she got hired" and other sexist comments. I was sort of confused. I'd never witnessed that sort of chauvinism before. 

I'm ashamed to admit that the only defense I put up on her behalf was to point out that she had to pass the same tests they did to get the job, and that all of us had went through the same phone interviews. Any appearance was simply not seen until after the hiring decision had been made. 

Racial prejudice is sort of the same way, I guess. I'm sort of naive when it comes to those things. I expect that others have the same level of non-concern that I have and it always shocks me when I see it, especially when others see my white skin and assume that I share their viewpoints.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> YIKES GARY!
> This is the first I have heard of this......which is not surprising, because I watch zero tv / listen to the radio, hardly ever.....and read the paper....never.
> Being out in the boonies is such....such a blessing.


I don't think this will be in the media, at least pre event, because of the rhetoric. MM won't want to fuel the fire.

The verbage for the event is confrontational and antagonistic. If this was meant to get the word out about certain issues, it will not work. People will veiw it in the same vein as the KKK and simply ignore it and hope it goes away. Jerry Springer might be interested.

The "Demands" are unrealistic.

If the Nation of Islam supports this event, they lose credibility with me.

The million man march gained media attention pre-event, during and after. This will gain none unless there is violence.


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## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> I can't think of anything that I've ever received as a result of being black, except a hard time! I've always had to perform better than everyone else in order to be perceived as half as good. There have been times when people assumed that I was the beneficiary of some sort of Affirmative Action type of program, but I have not.
> 
> As a child, I often performed in piano competitions. People assumed that I somehow arrived there as a result of an inner-city youth program! I was not raised in a city and my parents paid good money for my musical education. Once I had performed, I was given grudging respect.
> 
> ...


That statement wasn't meant to say that all blacks are that way, because they are not. There's good and bad in every race. From my experience its usually the ones who feel entitled that throw these big rallies and such. I've experienced firsthand were being black made a difference on receiving government aid or not. There's nothing wrong with equality, but if you ask me the government didn't get it right on this one.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Ernie said:


> Racial prejudice is sort of the same way, I guess. I'm sort of naive when it comes to those things. I expect that others have the same level of non-concern that I have and it always shocks me when I see it, especially when others see my white skin and assume that I share their viewpoints.


I was raised to respect everyone and to not make assumptions about people. I'm not perfect, though... There are times when black people expect me to feel a certain way about race and they are genuinely surprised if I express a differing view. 

I believe that my views were shaped by where I was raised and by (usually) being the only racial diversity in a room. I don't assume that a comment being made is racist... I sort of have a "decision tree" that I use before coming to that conclusion. I'm more likely to assume that someone dislikes me as a person before even entertaining the thought that they are a racist, when a comment appears to be borderline! I try to discern the intent of the person. 

When a topic relating to an -ism comes up, it is generally a teachable moment. Both parties involved can usually learn something from the exchange.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

time said:


> The million man march gained media attention pre-event, during and after. This will gain none unless there is violence.


I agree...


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

TheMartianChick said:


> I can't think of anything that I've ever received as a result of being black, except a hard time! I've always had to perform better than everyone else in order to be perceived as half as good. There have been times when people assumed that I was the beneficiary of some sort of Affirmative Action type of program, but I have not.
> 
> As a child, I often performed in piano competitions. People assumed that I somehow arrived there as a result of an inner-city youth program! I was not raised in a city and my parents paid good money for my musical education. Once I had performed, I was given grudging respect.
> 
> ...


You know, I see both sides of this issue.

On the one hand, I am personally friends with people of color who have had the same experiences as TMC above.... they are smart, work hard, but fight people's assumptions every step of the way. 

On the other hand, I have seen people of color who use the "race card" at every opportunity. I've been told that we had to hire candidates who were less qualified because our department wasn't "diverse" enough, and we passed over highly qualified white people to hire much less qualified blacks for the sake of image. Some places have a policy that at least a certain % of people you interview for an open position must be black or hispanic, and I've worked in places that were short staffed for a while because we couldn't find enough minorities to interivew to meet the % requirement so we couldn't hire the candidate we had chosen :hair

I have a daughter that I adopted from India, and a lot of people assume she's black or biracial by looking at her. I have told her the same thing I tell my bio DD: that what they accomplishe in life will depend on what they learn and what they know, not the color of their skin, and that the sky is the limit for anyone who has a great education and a great work ethic to back it up. I really hope that I'm not lying to them......


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

TheMartianChick said:


> I was raised to respect everyone and to not make assumptions about people. I'm not perfect, though... There are times when black people expect me to feel a certain way about race and they are genuinely surprised if I express a differing view.
> 
> I believe that my views were shaped by where I was raised and by (usually) being the only racial diversity in a room. I don't assume that a comment being made is racist... I sort of have a "decision tree" that I use before coming to that conclusion. I'm more likely to assume that someone dislikes me as a person before even entertaining the thought that they are a racist, when a comment appears to be borderline! I try to discern the intent of the person.
> 
> When a topic relating to an -ism comes up, it is generally a teachable moment. Both parties involved can usually learn something from the exchange.


I like you.  You seem very thoughtful and respectful.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

TMC - thank you for helping to me to understand more.
I am very glad this is turning into a fruitful conversation. (at least in general).

And I have found that there are people that are people and have dark skin.
and there are some people that flaunt and use the dark skin (for the conversation here).

I do believe that there are news covered (not worthy, or leaders, just news covered) people on each side of this issue that are the flash points and the 'sterotypes' that make it difficult for those that are just people that happen to wear a different skin color, as in wearing different eye color or hair color. And in this, there is a HUGE difference and problem for all of us. It keeps us more divided.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Usingmyrights said:


> That statement wasn't meant to say that all blacks are that way, because they are not. There's good and bad in every race. From my experience its usually the ones who feel entitled that throw these big rallies and such. I've experienced firsthand were being black made a difference on receiving government aid or not. There's nothing wrong with equality, but if you ask me the government didn't get it right on this one.


Actually, the ones who throw the rallies are often the ones who don't believe in entitlements. They don't need them. Instead, they have created a cushy business niche for themselves as leaders of social justice. They create events to rally the people but never actually follow through on the action that is needed to effect change. They don't speak for the people...They speak to the people and then fly off to their next speaking engagement. 

Curing cancer and curing social injustice will probably never occur... There is no money to be made in either. There is much money to be made in the fight against both, however.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Thank you, NickieL & Angie!

I believe that there is a need for an honest dialogue about all of the -isms in America. If we avoid addressing them, we will never understand the point of view of the opposing side. We don't have to agree on everything, but it is good to know how the other side came to form their opinions.


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## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

TMC - Maybe our differing views of the rallies and such is part of a regional thing. It could be that its more of a heated issue here in the southeast due to there are still families here that only have to go 3 or 4 generations back to the slave days. Understandable haterd at the time was passed down generation to generation and didn't change with the times. As far entitlements I don't agree with them. However if something is trying to do something with their lives and its there for them to use I don't blame them for taking advantage of it. I didn't agree with the first time home buyers credit, but I did take advantage of it because it wouldn't be wise of me to pass up the oppritunity. I do however feel strongly agaisnt those who are nothing more than leeches on the system regardless of color.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> Actually, the ones who throw the rallies are often the ones who don't believe in entitlements. They don't need them. Instead, they have created a cushy business niche for themselves as leaders of social justice. They create events to rally the people but never actually follow through on the action that is needed to effect change. They don't speak for the people...They speak to the people and then fly off to their next speaking engagement.
> 
> Curing cancer and curing social injustice will probably never occur... There is no money to be made in either. There is much money to be made in the fight against both, however.


 I'm with you here. There will always be people on either side of the 'fight' stirring up trouble for personal gain. It's the nature of the beast I suppose.

I have to disagree with your take on The Nation though. Just because someones public mission statement says one thing doesn't mean it's how it goes. I've read Altria's mission statement and I can see no where it says to hook young kids on tobacco, form a life long addict and kill them... 
I went to school in the 90s in South Jersey. There were quite a few folks that were raised on the beliefs of The Nation. Most of them simply didn't like white people. 
I also learned that The Nation teaches that Allah (God) came to Earth in the body of W.D. Fard in the 1930s (I did have to google the name, I had forgotten) and all his teaching are 'divine'.
Louis Farrakhan has stated, "White people are potential humansâ¦they havenât evolved yet." This seems racist to me. 
And the teachings of The Nation:

"The Blackman is the original man. From him came all brown, yellow, red, and white people. By using a special method of birth control law, the Blackman was able to produce the white race. This method of birth control was developed by a Black scientist known as Yakub, who envisioned making and teaching a nation of people who would be diametrically opposed to the Original People. A Race of people who would one day rule the original people and the earth for a period of 6,000 years. Yakub promised his followers that he would graft a nation from his own people, and he would teach them how to rule his people, through a system of tricks and lies whereby they use deceit to divide and conquer, and break the unity of the darker people, put one brother against another, and then act as mediators and rule both sides." -Elijah Muhammad

That sounds like a cult to me. No less crazy then Scientology or the KKK. But that's only an opinion, and you know what they say about those.

I will admit my bias. I've never been to a meeting of The Nation. I have seen Farrakhan speak once years ago and he wasn't the nicest fella, though during that speech he didn't come off as a racist. All I can speak to with personal experience is the people I've known, who it is quite possible, use The Nation as a cover for their own poor behavior. 
Even if that is the case, there are enough of them to make me want to steer clear of any events they hold.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> Thank you, NickieL & Angie!
> 
> I believe that there is a need for an honest dialogue about all of the -isms in America. If we avoid addressing them, we will never understand the point of view of the opposing side. We don't have to agree on everything, but it is good to know how the other side came to form their opinions.



We could start a thread on this for sure! I think we've reached a point in history, a kind of sticking point really, where we've fallen into the same trap we fall into for everything. Each side his it's point of view and instead of cleaning our respective houses, we all try to defend our view...
Everything becomes us and them,and it must be a zero sum game... Not productive in the least. It'll take another generation or so before we can move forward from where we are. I think 1 generation can only change so much before personal biases and even personal history clouds judgment.

Maybe I'm over thinking it. More coffee for me!


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Usingmyrights said:


> TMC - Maybe our differing views of the rallies and such is part of a regional thing. It could be that its more of a heated issue here in the southeast due to there are still families here that only have to go 3 or 4 generations back to the slave days. Understandable haterd at the time was passed down generation to generation and didn't change with the times. As far entitlements I don't agree with them. However if something is trying to do something with their lives and its there for them to use I don't blame them for taking advantage of it. I didn't agree with the first time home buyers credit, but I did take advantage of it because it wouldn't be wise of me to pass up the oppritunity. I do however feel strongly agaisnt those who are nothing more than leeches on the system regardless of color.


I think that we agree on a lot here... If there are going to be programs that are supposed to assist people through hard times, then they should be used to help them to stand on their own two feet. But at some point, they do have to stand up. I don't believe that capable folks should have to be taken care of and coddled on the public dime forever. In a perfect world, there'd be programs in place as a safety net and no one around who actually needs to utilize the programs.

In regards to the differing viewpoints... I think that we all bring our baggage to the discussion of any of the -isms. As such, we all look at them differently. Some argue that the Confederate flag is a symbol of slavery, while others feel that it is symbolic of a particular period in history and have great feelings of pride because their forefathers were compelled to fight for what they believed in. 

Neither viewpoint is wrong...They just don't seem to work well together. The presence of the flag offends one side and the absence of the flag offends the other. Blacks don't want their history to be whitewashed or left out of textbooks and many southerners don't want thier history to be dirtied in textbooks and made to be only about the issue of slavery. There are very few things in life that are black or white. Most are in shades of gray.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

TheMartianChick said:


> The black community feels that there are certain issues that are largely ignored by the media and the politicians. While there are many issues that are shared by all Americans, there are others that are never addressed because they are not perceived to affect whites. Some may even be issues that whites WOULD be willing to support, but they don't know about them.
> 
> My husband is raging about one such issue this morning. When black children go missing or are murdered, there is very little tv coverage. He's been scanning the news all morning to find a news story about a missing black girl who has been found dead. This is probably one of the best publicized cases about a black teen and yet the story hasn't gotten much tv coverage since her body was discovered.


You ever think there might just be an economic factor here? Remember TV, newspapers, magazines and even websites live and die (no pun intended) on the number of people who see the stories in/on them. It could be the fact a story on a missing non-white doesn't generate as many 'hits'. The question you must ask is why are people not interested in reading these stories.

I pose the following. Because, as a group, non-white groups are seen (rightly or wrongly) as a much larger percentage of the perpetrators as well as victims of violent crimes a violent crime by or on a member of those groups is considered "nothing unusual". Take race out of it and think about traffic accidents. When there is a car wreck, it MIGHT make the local TV news (in a small market) if someone is killed and maybe in the local paper in the 'police round up'. But if there is an accident involving a school bus it stands a chance of becoming national news and almost surely will if there are major injuries or deaths.




TheMartianChick said:


> This is an example of an issue that I believe that white people could probably get behind, but I believe that many don't realize that it occurs or understand how common the issue is in the black community.
> 
> When black parents report missing children, the police tend to take the reports and then assume that the child must be a runaway or hooked on drugs. The child's history doesn't seem to matter...straight A's, honor society, star athlete, etc...Very little effort is made to find them in many jurisdictions and this isn't something that only occurs in the North or the South...It happens everywhere.
> 
> ...


There are many, many cases where the missing person is lily white as well. Unless there is enough evidence to raise it to an Amber Alert you never hear about it.

Goto the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children and see how many of them you have heard major news stories about, no matter what color they are.

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PublicHomeServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

TheMartianChick said:


> I can't think of anything that I've ever received as a result of being black, except a hard time! I've always had to perform better than everyone else in order to be perceived as half as good. There have been times when people assumed that I was the beneficiary of some sort of Affirmative Action type of program, but I have not.
> 
> As a child, I often performed in piano competitions. People assumed that I somehow arrived there as a result of an inner-city youth program! I was not raised in a city and my parents paid good money for my musical education. Once I had performed, I was given grudging respect.
> 
> ...


I know a lot of blacks who are just like you. They work their butts off to get where they are but are upset they are not seen as 'being worthy' of their achievements. You ever wonder why this happened? Could it be the fact the government does require schools to give "a hand" to blacks? Could it be the fact companies are so afraid of lawsuits they tend to look at having a "proper racial mix" in their employees? Could it be because there is a far percentage of blacks in jobs which they were NOT the most qualified for due to AA or the threat of lawsuits? 

If you want to move to GC or the mod will allow it here we could get into the damage to the black community AA has done.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

Funny Ive been asking many folks of color if they had heard anything about this for the last two days . None of them have a clue what its all about and didnt even know anything was going on . I expect this to show up on snopes as a hoax rather quickly .
should be getting emails back from the NAACP and others listed either confirming or denying soon .


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

InvalidID said:


> I went to school in the 90s in South Jersey. There were quite a few folks that were raised on the beliefs of The Nation. Most of them simply didn't like white people.
> I also learned that The Nation teaches that Allah (God) came to Earth in the body of W.D. Fard in the 1930s (I did have to google the name, I had forgotten) and all his teaching are 'divine'.
> Louis Farrakhan has stated, "White people are potential humansâ¦they havenât evolved yet." This seems racist to me.
> And the teachings of The Nation:
> ...


A lot of the rhetoric of the Nation has changed over the years. In regards to the students that you knew...They were likely influenced by some of the old teachings which they would have received through their parents. Some of the 60's and 70's stuff was anti-white due to a lot of the racially motivated cop beatings, dogs being sicced on people, etc...

The piece that you posted about W.D. Fard is exactly what I was referencing when I mentioned that most Muslims would not even recognize the practices/beliefs of the Nation as being Islamic. The idea of God coming down to earth and walking around in the personage of anyone is considered to be blasphemous. The interesting thing about Fard is that his appearance was very "white". He did not look like a black man at all.

Elijah Muhammad received his understanding of the religion directly from Fard, so in that sense, he (Elijah) was the Moses of the religion. I find it interesting that the Nation evolved (devolved?) into anti-white speak since Fard appeared to be white and preached about the significance of the black man.

The story of Yakub and the black man being the original man is really not much different from many of the other stories in other holy books. You either believe or you don't. Some people would argue that there is some seemingly unbelieveable stuff in the book of Revelations, too!

Louis Farakkhan is a fabulous violinist...but he is a racist. If he had said that humans hadn't yet evolved yet, I could agree. It has always seemed crazy to me that there could be racism among people of the same race! 

In the black community, there is racism based upon skin color. Lighter skinned women are deemed to be more attractive and are subsequently treated better. After slavery and well into the 80's, a black high society emerged. These were the well-to-do blacks who became doctors and held black tie affairs and coming out parties for their daughters.

In order to gain entry into these social clubs, you had to pass the paper bag test. If your skin was lighter than a brown paper luch bag, then you were deemed to be acceptable membership.

In the book 'The Good Earth' by Pearl Buck. In it, they mention that to the Chinese, lighter skin is considered a sign of being well-bred. Darker skin was a sign of being the decendent of farmers and was undesirable.

The other night, I was watching a PBS special about race in Haiti and the Dominican Republic. These two countries occupy the same island and yet one 'whitens' their drawings and statues of historical figures to make them appear to be more closely aligned with a European descent.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I expect this to show up on snopes as a hoax rather quickly .


If it's a "hoax" , it's been going on for a long time already.

http://www.google.com/search?q="Day...ALJG4twfC-_2JDA&start=10&sa=N&biw=999&bih=505


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

PyroDon said:


> Funny Ive been asking many folks of color if they had heard anything about this for the last two days . None of them have a clue what its all about and didnt even know anything was going on . I expect this to show up on snopes as a hoax rather quickly .
> should be getting emails back from the NAACP and others listed either confirming or denying soon .


It is funny that you should mention this... I know of someone who is quite active in the local National Action Network and is more than a passing acquaintance of Rev. Sharpton. Usually when something like this is held...he goes running! I spoke to him at 11am and he didn't mention anything about this. The first that I heard of this was in this topic at HT. Also, these events usually involve a lot of ministers. Today is Good Friday and Sunday is Easter. Most ministers are tending to their own flocks this weekend, I would think.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> It is funny that you should mention this... I know of someone who is quite active in the local National Action Network and is more than a passing acquaintance of Rev. Sharpton. Usually when something like this is held...he goes running! I spoke to him at 11am and he didn't mention anything about this. The first that I heard of this was in this topic at HT. Also, these events usually involve a lot of ministers. Today is Good Friday and Sunday is Easter. Most ministers are tending to their own flocks this weekend, I would think.


 The site was cheaply done and a lot of what was said seemed... odd I'll say.
It's entirely possible someone is just looking to stir up trouble. People are edgy these days, wouldn't take a whole lot.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

watcher said:


> I know a lot of blacks who are just like you. They work their butts off to get where they are but are upset they are not seen as 'being worthy' of their achievements. You ever wonder why this happened? Could it be the fact the government does require schools to give "a hand" to blacks? Could it be the fact companies are so afraid of lawsuits they tend to look at having a "proper racial mix" in their employees? Could it be because there is a far percentage of blacks in jobs which they were NOT the most qualified for due to AA or the threat of lawsuits?
> 
> If you want to move to GC or the mod will allow it here we could get into the damage to the black community AA has done.



If you want to discuss it here, I'm okay with it on this thread or a new thread.
The smart aleck comments will be deleted as soon as I find them.
A thoughtful discussion can help bridge differences and impressions and settings of expectations for the future of us all.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

AngieM2 said:


> If you want to discuss it here, I'm okay with it on this thread or a new thread.
> The smart aleck comments will be deleted as soon as I find them.
> A thoughtful discussion can help bridge differences and impressions and settings of expectations for the future of us all.


I'll play nice. Let's see how it goes here before deciding to move it to a new thread.

With that said. . .


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Watcher-
I do think that economics play a part, but I don't think that it is wholly to blame for the problem. Here is an article that explains more about why the black community feels the way that it does about the missing persons issue:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/17/earlyshow/living/main702549.shtml


Your example of an accident involving a school bus is a good one to ponder. Thinking back to some of the coverage relating to bus crashes that I've seen, it seems that kids on a bus are sort of a "cross-over" item. They appeal to the masses and in the photos that are shown, you really can't tell anything about the ethnicity of the children, you just see the crumpled vehicle.

Lots of people have kids and I think that we tend to start thinking about how fortunate we are that ours are okay. It is easy to have empathy for a grieving mother or father because next time, it could easily be our own child taken in a school bus accident. 

Your example does make me wonder what my very first thought is when I see something like that on the news...Do I imagine a bus full of white kids, black kids, or do I envision a busload of diverse kids? I'm really not sure as to what my answer to that would be. Should the skin color of the children matter? No, it shouldn't... I just wonder how my mind perceives that particular event.

You are correct about the perception that people of color proportionally commit more crimes. The media seems to be a bit more focused on black crime then on those committed by other groups. Other than the stories about crime, there are very few stories about minorities. As a people, minorities are very much attuned to this because it has been our reality.

Can you imagine turning on a tv and flipping the channels and seeing nothing but Japanese faces? There might be a hundred channels on cable television and not a one has an actor that looks like you. You open every magazine on the rack at the drugstore and all of the content is geared towards someone who does not look like you. That was essentially my reality growing up. Of course, I lived in a rural environment and we didn't have cable. We only had 3local channels.

This is the reason that channels like BET were created. I remember discovering BET when I moved to the city at the age of 18. It wasn't a trashy channel then. They had thought-provoking programming for all ages and late at night, they showed black classic cinema. Old restored black films that time had almost forgotten. There were music video shows and other things that were reflective of the young black culture at that time. Prior to that...black music videos weren't shown on MTV unless the songs crossed over to the pop charts.

Edited to add: Because of where we lived, there were no black radio stations, either. The only R&B music I got to hear was if I bought a cassette or album sight unseen! Once I got a bit older, there was one weekly radio show that did play some black music. As a result, I have a really eclectic and diverse collection of favorites that spans just about all genres of music.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

watcher said:


> I know a lot of blacks who are just like you. They work their butts off to get where they are but are upset they are not seen as 'being worthy' of their achievements. You ever wonder why this happened? Could it be the fact the government does require schools to give "a hand" to blacks? Could it be the fact companies are so afraid of lawsuits they tend to look at having a "proper racial mix" in their employees? Could it be because there is a far percentage of blacks in jobs which they were NOT the most qualified for due to AA or the threat of lawsuits?


I do believe that jobs should be given to the best person suited for the job. This means that no one should be given a position that they are unqualified for. In many parts of the country, minorities were shut out of jobs. Many of the trade unions refused to allow people of color into their training programs. IN my area, you cannot become certified as a steamfitter, if you aren't allowed into the union-run training program. Affirmative Action-type initiatives would force those training programs to save a few spots for the minorities as a way of righting a historical wrong. At the end of that training, there shouldn't be much difference in the skill level of those students and they should be equally qualified for the job.

In theory, the workforce should be reflective of the community, but if it isn't, there should be an effort made to ensure that the playing field is level. I don't believe that this should be a long-term solution as the various industries come close to meeting the goal of being reflective of the community, then I think that the program can go away. I don't think that ALL industries have to reach this goal at the same time...Rather, I believe that as each industry achieves the goal then the "special initiatives" should go away.

I do think that a lot of employers are afraid of lawsuits, so they rush to fill up the slots with people who may or may not be qualified. Sometimes, they don't really look too hard for qualified minorities and that does a disservice to qualified minorites everywhere by creating the stereotype that our work is inferior.

I think that there are a fair number of people of all ethnicities in positions for which they are unqualified for. I don't see it as a minority thing. I worked for the state for a year and a half. I left my job because I knew that I couldn't move up through promotions because I didn't have enough seniority. Some of the people in supervisory positions had seniority but no management skills.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

TheMartianChick said:


> I can't think of anything that I've ever received as a result of being black, except a hard time! I've always had to perform better than everyone else in order to be perceived as half as good. There have been times when people assumed that I was the beneficiary of some sort of Affirmative Action type of program, but I have not.
> 
> As a child, I often performed in piano competitions. People assumed that I somehow arrived there as a result of an inner-city youth program! I was not raised in a city and my parents paid good money for my musical education. Once I had performed, I was given grudging respect.
> 
> ...


I don't know which side of the aisle you are on in the affirmative action (AA) discussion you are on but here's my view. And be warned, I'm a hard headed opinionated type. AA has done more to damage and keep the black community, as a whole, beaten down to second class citizenship than the Klan ever could have dreamed of.

Through AA there's not just a small segment of the white population telling blacks they are not equal to whites; there's the federal government, state government, local government, community groups and so called "black leaders" are telling them this. When you tell someone over and over and over they are "under privileged" and can only "succeed" with the help of others they soon start agreeing and stop trying to improve themselves. 

When you add into that all the welfare give a ways (which IMO were specifically designed to make it near impossible to free yourself from) you have a system which is almost guaranteed to make people into dependents which have no drive nor ability to improve themselves. 

We have bred a culture which views itself as being less than others, a culture where trying to improve yourself is viewed as 'abandoning your roots', a culture which feels it is entitled to be given stuff because its members can never make it in society. Such a culture will always be filled with second class citizens because they think they can never be anything else. Its much like the caste system in India; I was born this way and this is all I'll ever be so there's no need even trying. 

Now once you have a culture which thinks that way why are you surprised that other cultures see them that way?

It angers me to no end to see this. King's dream is dead, buried and is being. . .well let's say spat upon by the very people who use his image and dream to kill it. His dream was not to have blacks viewed as a bunch of low life losers who aren't smart enough to make it w/o the help of whites and/or the government. His dream wasn't that the government nor companies look at a black person and say "Well he's black therefore he can't get a good job by himself so we need to 'help' him". King's dream was to have a society where a man was judged on character, his ability, his drive and desire. Today, as you have discovered, you are not judged that way. You are first and foremost judged on the color of your skin. And this is because we are told we must to make sure things are "fair".

There are a few of us out here who are still working on making the dream a reality but we see it more and more as a lost cause.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> A lot of the rhetoric of the Nation has changed over the years. In regards to the students that you knew...They were likely influenced by some of the old teachings which they would have received through their parents. Some of the 60's and 70's stuff was anti-white due to a lot of the racially motivated cop beatings, dogs being sicced on people, etc...
> 
> The piece that you posted about W.D. Fard is exactly what I was referencing when I mentioned that most Muslims would not even recognize the practices/beliefs of the Nation as being Islamic. The idea of God coming down to earth and walking around in the personage of anyone is considered to be blasphemous. The interesting thing about Fard is that his appearance was very "white". He did not look like a black man at all.
> 
> Elijah Muhammad received his understanding of the religion directly from Fard, so in that sense, he (Elijah) was the Moses of the religion. I find it interesting that the Nation evolved (devolved?) into anti-white speak since Fard appeared to be white and preached about the significance of the black man.


 Perhaps the rumors that Elijah killed him are true? Power corrupts and all that?
Or perhaps he really did end up in Pakistan? Mysteries of history.



TheMartianChick said:


> The story of Yakub and the black man being the original man is really not much different from many of the other stories in other holy books. You either believe or you don't. Some people would argue that there is some seemingly unbelieveable stuff in the book of Revelations, too!


 Those stories are thousands of years old though. You have to admit there is a difference between what was written down thousands of years ago and what some (white?) guy said in the 30s. A guy that thought he was god no less.
Regardless, I agree that in all things religion, you either accept it or you don't. Faith is that magical thing that can lead you to salvation, or can be opium for the masses. Perspective.



TheMartianChick said:


> Louis Farakkhan is a fabulous violinist...but he is a racist. If he had said that humans hadn't yet evolved yet, I could agree. It has always seemed crazy to me that there could be racism among people of the same race!


 Mussolini played the violin as well. When discussing his politics I wouldn't see fit to bring it up though. That's not a jab, I'm just sayin.



TheMartianChick said:


> In the black community, there is racism based upon skin color. Lighter skinned women are deemed to be more attractive and are subsequently treated better. After slavery and well into the 80's, a black high society emerged. These were the well-to-do blacks who became doctors and held black tie affairs and coming out parties for their daughters.
> 
> In order to gain entry into these social clubs, you had to pass the paper bag test. If your skin was lighter than a brown paper luch bag, then you were deemed to be acceptable membership.





TheMartianChick said:


> In the book 'The Good Earth' by Pearl Buck. In it, they mention that to the Chinese, lighter skin is considered a sign of being well-bred. Darker skin was a sign of being the decendent of farmers and was undesirable.
> 
> The other night, I was watching a PBS special about race in Haiti and the Dominican Republic. These two countries occupy the same island and yet one 'whitens' their drawings and statues of historical figures to make them appear to be more closely aligned with a European descent.


Interesting facts no doubt. I don't know how it's relevant to the conversation at hand, or even how it relates to NOI being racist or not though. Again, not a jab, I'm just asking.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

From the NOI website.



> What The Muslims Want
> 
> This is the question asked most frequently by both the whites and the blacks. The answers to this question I shall state as simply as possible.
> 
> ...


That's peaceful???

http://www.noi.org/about_beliefs_and_wants.shtml

Nation of Islam is racist. Pure and simple... the only folks who would debate it are racists too. Just like the white people who debate that the KKK isn't racist.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Watcher, very good way to put it. Kind of the same way I feel about equal rights. I felt very strongly that it never should be about race or gender. I still feel that way. I still see a person first. It is not how the system works, starting with education. I see women marketed more than ever, not what I envisioned as a teenager. The worst ones are women themselves, the media images are distorted and gross. Race images are not any better. Someone who flaunts the gangsta image and f this and n that makes me ill. Seems to sell "music". Hate is a message perpetuated in music. Not that it is new because the heavy metal bands did their share and then some. Disrespect to women in the lyrics, too.
I may be naive but I have always believed that coming from Adam and Eve made the world a large brother and sister hood. And that was before hood meant something like neighborhood. It saddens me to see such hatred on any level.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

InvalidID said:


> Mussolini played the violin as well. When discussing his politics I wouldn't see fit to bring it up though. That's not a jab, I'm just sayin.


I'm sorry if I wasn't clearer about the violin playing...It is essentially the only thing that I can wholeheartedly endorse about Farakkhan.

My point about the various types of racism is that there is not just a division between, different ethnic groups of people. There are divisions within the same ethnic group. It always struck me as being nonsensical that black folks who had been oppressed due to their skin color would in turn due the same to members of the same group. If you experienced the sting of racism, wouldn't you want to NOT engage in that hurtful behavior? It never made sense to me that blacks did that to other blacks.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> I'm sorry if I wasn't clearer about the violin playing...It is essentially the only thing that I can wholeheartedly endorse about Farakkhan.
> 
> My point about the various types of racism is that there is not just a division between, different ethnic groups of people. There are divisions within the same ethnic group. It always struck me as being nonsensical that black folks who had been oppressed due to their skin color would in turn due the same to members of the same group. If you experienced the sting of racism, wouldn't you want to NOT engage in that hurtful behavior? It never made sense to me that blacks did that to other blacks.


 Ahh, got it.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

TheMartianChick said:


> I'm sorry if I wasn't clearer about the violin playing...It is essentially the only thing that I can wholeheartedly endorse about Farakkhan.
> 
> My point about the various types of racism is that there is not just a division between, different ethnic groups of people. There are divisions within the same ethnic group. It always struck me as being nonsensical that black folks who had been oppressed due to their skin color would in turn due the same to members of the same group. If you experienced the sting of racism, wouldn't you want to NOT engage in that hurtful behavior? It never made sense to me that blacks did that to other blacks.


agreed. I found it interesting that the NOI is against interracial marriage.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

PyroDon said:


> Funny Ive been asking many folks of color if they had heard anything about this for the last two days . None of them have a clue what its all about and didnt even know anything was going on . I expect this to show up on snopes as a hoax rather quickly .
> should be getting emails back from the NAACP and others listed either confirming or denying soon .


Actually, it's on the NBPP home page. If you type 'newblackpanther.com' in the address bar, it reverts to that dayofaction address.

http://www.dayofactionmovement.org/

I found nothing on the NAACP, NOI or Congressional Black Caucus Foundation websites, however. Makes you wonder if they're actually supporting this rally.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

It's on this one too:

http://www.cbpm.org/nbpp.html

And here:

www.newblackpanther.com


That's a good hoax if you can fool the one's supposedly putting it on


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

watcher said:


> I don't know which side of the aisle you are on in the affirmative action (AA) discussion you are on but here's my view. And be warned, I'm a hard headed opinionated type. AA has done more to damage and keep the black community, as a whole, beaten down to second class citizenship than the Klan ever could have dreamed of.
> 
> *I believe that something needed to be put in place in order to level the playing field. I do not believe that it should remain in place once equal opportunities are available.*
> 
> ...


My answers are in bold above.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

seedspreader said:


> From the NOI website.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In the course of my work, I have met quite a few members. If I agreed with their religion, then I'd join...It just isn't my cup of tea.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

seedspreader said:


> agreed. I found it interesting that the NOI is against interracial marriage.


Yeah... I always thought that made no sense myself...Elijah Muhammad listened to a man who appeared to be white. The man told him that God had a special plan for blacks and that the races should be kept separate...Hmmm... Unless someone just came over from Africa yesterday, they are probably not 100% black. That would mean that God's special plan might not include an exemption for black Americans since 99.9% of us have some white heritage.

Edited to add: If you talk to some of the members, they don't believe that there is anything wrong with interracial marriage. I guess it is like any other religion in the sense that people sometimes pick and choose the tenets that they are going to abide by.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

TheMartianChick said:


> My answers are in bold above.





> I would like to believe that Dr. King's dream has been deferred. I truly hope that it isn't dead. As I mentioned earlier, the current crop of leaders are not leading the black community...they are (dare I say it?) pimping the community.


It needs to be said. The problem is, whether coming from blacks or whites, whoever says it is attacked (verbally) for saying it. It's quite sad because what's happening is so blatantly obvious.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's on this one too:
> 
> http://www.cbpm.org/nbpp.html
> 
> ...


That is really weird...if there was one going on in my city, I'd probably ride by just to see who bothered to show up. If this isn't a hoax, then it sure looks like they forgot to send out the memo...


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> In the course of my work, I have met quite a few members. If I agreed with their religion, then I'd join...It just isn't my cup of tea.


 I think the point is you were defending them by saying the message has changed and he's pointing out it hasn't. It leads to tensions between races when someone defends a racist group as not being racist.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

watcher said:


> I don't know which side of the aisle you are on in the affirmative action (AA) discussion you are on but here's my view. And be warned, I'm a hard headed opinionated type. AA has done more to damage and keep the black community, as a whole, beaten down to second class citizenship than the Klan ever could have dreamed of.
> 
> Through AA there's not just a small segment of the white population telling blacks they are not equal to whites; there's the federal government, state government, local government, community groups and so called "black leaders" are telling them this. When you tell someone over and over and over they are "under privileged" and can only "succeed" with the help of others they soon start agreeing and stop trying to improve themselves.
> 
> ...


ADD to that, Planned Parenthood is set up in poor black neighborhoods, and is funded and designed to 'keep the population' under control.

Watcher.....I totally agree.
I sit back and see that slavery is alive and well today.....it's just not physical bondage like the past. It's the tearing down of the mind, the heart, and the will of a man (or woman) that is black. It's enslaving them to the pathetic hand out by the Master (that'd be the government) just enough to exist, but never any more. To promise them this and lie to them about that......and because they are under the Master's thumb, they can do nothing.

Then you get a group of......devils.........that 'convert' them, thereby tricking them once again.

Some of the greatest Gospel Hymns were songs of the slaves. Deep was their Faith in Almighty God. And today, those......devils.......seek to rip them away from God and convert them to hate, anger, revenge.......

I hate this happening. To anyone. I hate it...it breaks my heart to see people get fooled, used, abused.....I hate it.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> ADD to that, Planned Parenthood is set up in poor black neighborhoods, and is funded and designed to 'keep the population' under control.
> 
> Watcher.....I totally agree.
> *I sit back and see that slavery is alive and well today.....it's just not physical bondage like the past. It's the tearing down of the mind, the heart, and the will of a man (or woman) that is black. It's enslaving them to the pathetic hand out by the Master (that'd be the government) just enough to exist, but never any more. To promise them this and lie to them about that......and because they are under the Master's thumb, they can do nothing.*
> ...




I think that the portion in bold is a bit short sighted. The _master_ doesn't discriminate, he _enslaves_ people regardless of color or creed. Anyone that will fall into the trap is trapped. Saying it's a system designed to ensnare blacks is... racist.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

InvalidID said:


> I think that the portion in bold is a bit short sighted. The _master_ doesn't discriminate, he _enslaves_ people regardless of color or creed. Anyone that will fall into the trap is trapped. *Saying it's a system designed to ensnare blacks is... racist.*


I know, right!


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

I agree with Watcher, for the most part AA does not need to exist now and cheapens the achievements of people of other races. My grandmother married a very dark native Hawaiian man and lived in a white middle class neighborhood. Back in the early 60s that was quite the shocker (a tall white mostly Norwegian woman with short dark dude). There were folks who avoided them or didn't treat my mother real well. However I've never heard my grandfather utter one word about white folks keeping him down. He just did what ever it was he needed to do. He could have relied AA I'm sure but instead relied on himself.

Too many black folks I've met dwell on the fact that they are black. I've been around a few black folks that constantly remind you that they are black (like it totally isn't obvious by looking at them). Constantly comparing themselves to white folks, talking about black this and black that. I don't care, neither do most people of other races either. I have friends of other races and they don't constantly go around mentioning their race. 

I remember ridding on a bus in Minneapolis watching a young black college student come onto the bus. There was a group of very rowdy young black folk in the back who hassled everyone who came onto the bus including this kid. The first thing that came out of those thugs mouths was how this kid was "acting white". Excuse me, since when is trying to better yourself considered a white only thing? That attitude is what is keeping the black man down now.

Regarding crime and black faces on TV, it really depends where you are from. Here in mostly white rural Wisconsin 90 percent of the time I see white people plastered on the local news and in the paper. Most large cities have large black populations. Most of the black population in those cities is poor. Poor people commit more crime. Why don't we see more black children on national TV when they go missing is probably for the same reason why we don't see poor white children on TV when they go missing. No one cares about poor people of any race.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

InvalidID said:


> I think the point is you were defending them by saying the message has changed and he's pointing out it hasn't. It leads to tensions between races when someone defends a racist group as not being racist.


As with any religious congregation, the message is often interpreted differently in the various houses of worship. From the local branch members, I've never heard that particular type of rhetoric. 

I also think that the verbiage of the website is misleading because it implies that all Muslims share their beliefs, when those are only NOI tenets.

When I entered into this conversation about NOI, it was originally in response to your comments about them hating white people and wanting to be rid of them. The ones that I know seem rather ambivalent about whites and just want to be left alone to prosper by themselves. I was not defending them. I was merely stating my experience. 

I mentioned the piece about their security services because the original post mentioned the fact that they would be handling security. They have a good reputation for doing well in that arena. Like any sect of any religion, each group does things a bit differently. The website is put together by the National group. As I stated before, I do feel that Farakkhan is a racist and he has proven it many times.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Then you get a group of......devils.........that 'convert' them, thereby tricking them once again.
> 
> Some of the greatest Gospel Hymns were songs of the slaves. Deep was their Faith in Almighty God. And today, those......devils.......seek to rip them away from God and convert them to hate, anger, revenge.......
> 
> I hate this happening. To anyone. I hate it...it breaks my heart to see people get fooled, used, abused.....I hate it.


Christianity can be a touchy subject among black people, as well. Christianity was also used to justify keeping slaves in the position of being indentured. There were religions being practiced in Africa at the time the slave trade began in the Americas. 

They were forced to convert to Christianity, but it was illegal for a slave to be taught to read. Their biblical teachings came from someone else telling them what was in the Bible and often telling them misinformation to keep them in servitude. They would be told that God wanted them to obey the plantation master and the slave master. On some of the more benevolent plantations, they were told that they were like children that the master looked after and that they needed regular correction.

The plantation owners didn't convert them to Christianity to save the slaves souls, so much as to keep the heathen religious practices from being performed on their land. There were fears that there would be retribution against their own families if they allowed heathen religions to be practiced on their land. 

Slaves had a deep and abiding faith in Christianity because they were no longer allowed to practice their original faiths. They weren't allowed to speak their native languages. Their family ties were broken. They were not allowed to marry without permission of their owner. They were bred on demand and there was little hope of a better life or freedom until death claimed them. At that point, the only thing that they could pray for was that they would be blessed with entry into heaven. Christianity was essentially the only thing that they were allowed to have. 

I say all of that not to re-hash slavery but to explain that once slavery was outlawed, some blacks turned their backs on Christianity when they were presented with an alternative, especially one that focused on telling them that they had value or worth. Wrong or right, they felt that the religion of Christianity was not a gift, but a instrument of control.

There were a few offshoots of Islam that sort of sprang up within the black community after 1900. Moorish Science Temple is another example. Both seemed to convey the message of black nationalism or black empowerment as a part of the teaching.


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

TMC, have you ever read Zora Neale Hurston's, "How it feels to be colored me?" I know it's a thread drift and I only ask because some of what you said reminds me of what she wrote. We read her in my Am Lit II class. I really enjoyed it.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

tab said:


> Watcher, very good way to put it. Kind of the same way I feel about equal rights. I felt very strongly that it never should be about race or gender. I still feel that way. I still see a person first. It is not how the system works, starting with education. I see women marketed more than ever, not what I envisioned as a teenager. The worst ones are women themselves, the media images are distorted and gross. Race images are not any better. Someone who flaunts the gangsta image and f this and n that makes me ill. Seems to sell "music". Hate is a message perpetuated in music. Not that it is new because the heavy metal bands did their share and then some. Disrespect to women in the lyrics, too.
> I may be naive but I have always believed that coming from Adam and Eve made the world a large brother and sister hood. And that was before hood meant something like neighborhood. It saddens me to see such hatred on any level.


Somehow I missed your comments earlier Tab, but they are spot on!


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> Christianity can be a touchy subject among black people, as well. Christianity was also used to justify keeping slaves in the position of being indentured. There were religions being practiced in Africa at the time the slave trade began in the Americas.
> 
> They were forced to convert to Christianity, but it was illegal for a slave to be taught to read. Their biblical teachings came from someone else telling them what was in the Bible and often telling them misinformation to keep them in servitude. They would be told that God wanted them to obey the plantation master and the slave master. On some of the more benevolent plantations, they were told that they were like children that the master looked after and that they needed regular correction.
> 
> ...


 This very thing still happens all over the world today. Although now it tends to be Muslim extremists. It is none the less a wide spread problem. It's also why I don't hold ill will towards all 'terrorists' but only the educated. 
If a person has learned since birth that God wants them to kill and die, and they have no way of learning anything different how can you blame them? You will never 'fix' them, but you can't really blame them either.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

whiskeylivewire said:


> TMC, have you ever read Zora Neale Hurston's, "How it feels to be colored me?" I know it's a thread drift and I only ask because some of what you said reminds me of what she wrote. We read her in my Am Lit II class. I really enjoyed it.


That is one that I missed...I did just look it up online:

http://grammar.about.com/od/60essays/a/theireyesessay.htm

Thank you for pointing me in that direction!


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

TheMartianChick said:


> That is one that I missed...I did just look it up online:
> 
> http://grammar.about.com/od/60essays/a/theireyesessay.htm
> 
> Thank you for pointing me in that direction!


Your welcome! She was in the same module as Langston Hughes and I've always liked him...he was born in a town about an hour from me.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

InvalidID said:


> This very thing still happens all over the world today. Although now it tends to be Muslim extremists. It is none the less a wide spread problem. It's also why I don't hold ill will towards all 'terrorists' but only the educated.
> If a person has learned since birth that God wants them to kill and die, and they have no way of learning anything different how can you blame them? You will never 'fix' them, but you can't really blame them either.


I guess that I'm not so generous when it comes to terrorists, InvalidID... I've often wondered: *Would jihadists/suicide bombers would kill themselves for God if they felt that they would receive no heavenly reward for doing so?*

To me, the true test of doing something righteous is to do it for no other reason than that it was the right thing to do. I believe that a suicide bomber is someone who is willing to trade the large-scale murder of humans for immeasurable personal gain in heaven. They are unwilling to wait to receive a reward for a lifetime of good (hard) works and they want to cut to the head of the heavenly line at the expense of the people that they murder. I just cannot see it any other way.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

whiskeylivewire said:


> Your welcome! She was in the same module as Langston Hughes and I've always liked him...he was born in a town about an hour from me.


I was fortunate enough to get to tour his brownstone in NYC several years ago while attending a housing conference. A Dream Deferred is my favorite of his poems. In fact, I think I used that phrase earlier in regards to Dr. King's dream.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> I guess that I'm not so generous when it comes to terrorists, InvalidID... I've often wondered: *Would jihadists/suicide bombers would kill themselves for God if they felt that they would receive no heavenly reward for doing so?*
> 
> To me, the true test of doing something righteous is to do it for no other reason than that it was the right thing to do. I believe that a suicide bomber is someone who is willing to trade the large-scale murder of humans for immeasurable personal gain in heaven. They are unwilling to wait to receive a reward for a lifetime of good (hard) works and they want to cut to the head of the heavenly line at the expense of the people that they murder. I just cannot see it any other way.


 I *try* to see things through others eyes when i can. In this case I picture someone that's been told since birth this was the highest calling. There was no more honorable thing in gods eyes than this one thing. Of course they do it.
Add to that they live in abject squalor and are taught it's the enemies fault. The enemy killed your parents. The enemy keeps food from you and your loved ones. The enemy seeks to suppress and enslave you.
All this they are taught and have no way to learn otherwise. They are brainwashed, programmed even, with no way of undoing it because they have no education. Can not read what others think, only that of what they are told.

The minute you learn to read all that goes out the window though.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

deleted after reading the whole thread...not really on topic anymore!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

TheMartianChick said:


> Christianity can be a touchy subject among black people, as well. Christianity was also used to justify keeping slaves in the position of being indentured. There were religions being practiced in Africa at the time the slave trade began in the Americas.
> 
> They were forced to convert to Christianity, but it was illegal for a slave to be taught to read. Their biblical teachings came from someone else telling them what was in the Bible and often telling them misinformation to keep them in servitude. They would be told that God wanted them to obey the plantation master and the slave master. On some of the more benevolent plantations, they were told that they were like children that the master looked after and that they needed regular correction.
> 
> ...


I have never heard this before? 
But, if what you say is true, then it makes it twice as bad as I described in the first place, if anyone manipulated the Word of God to 'control' people...
How horrible. 
That is NOT from God....Misusing His Name, is a huge 'no no'.

For me, at the end of the day, this is a trick of the devils, that works, oh so well.....It's sad. I hope none of the fears expressed in this thread come to pass today, that it was all a bunch of whoo ha.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I wonder if the NOI tells blacks that it was Muslim slave traders who originally sold them into slavery?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

tinknal said:


> I wonder if the NOI tells blacks that it was Muslim slave traders who originally sold them into slavery?


Curious.....I don't know the facts, so I am asking:

Is the big reason why some stores sell goods labeled "fair trade"......is because the 'muslim' nations enslave young black children to pick the fields, and process in their factories, in Africa?
I remember hearing somewhere that slavery is alive and well in Africa, today, and it is at the hands of the 'muslim' ran governments???

Also, another question:

Is it true, that over in Somolia, Ruwanda, and other places, it is the muslim government that is going in and slaughtering christians, by the thousands.....and this too, is a 'black on black' crime?


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

TheMartianChick said:


> I believe that something needed to be put in place in order to level the playing field. I do not believe that it should remain in place once equal opportunities are available.


Do you make a field level by tilting it the other way? Think about it this way. You go to a piano competition and you are told because one time in the past one of your teacher's pupils cheated (I don't know how you cheat in a piano competitions but work with me here) so to "level the playing field" for the other people in the competition YOU are going to have your score automatically reduced by 10%.




TheMartianChick said:


> I agree that the Social Service system is broken. I want it to be there to catch folks when they fall, but there should be a incentive for getting oneself off of the dole. I do not believe in generational welfare and feel that being able to stay home with your children is a privilege and not a right. If a welfare mom has a baby, then she should be expected to go get a job. If she cannot find one then her check should be contingent upon her doing so many hours of community service type work. I don't believe that they should be allowed to stay home. We have a program in NY called JobsPlus that operates in this fashion. I usually have a couple of volunteers from it in my office throughout the week.


I tend to be a bit hard core. I think the government should only take money from your pocket and give it to people who have supplied a good or service to the government. The money the government takes from you is meant to be used for the common good, not for the good of an individual. I have yet to have anyone point out to me just where in the Constitution the federal government has the authority to do this.




TheMartianChick said:


> Because it isn't the entire culture that thinks that way...There are other schools of thought that do not receive the media attention. If other cultures are basing their views on what they see in the media, then it is no wonder that they feel the way that they do.


There are always groups in any culture which don't follow the conventional ways. But as a whole you know its true. Look at "black" music, "black" entertainment and "black" neighborhoods as a whole. 




TheMartianChick said:


> I would like to believe that Dr. King's dream has been deferred. I truly hope that it isn't dead. As I mentioned earlier, the current crop of leaders are not leading the black community...they are (dare I say it?) pimping the community. When King was killed, no one stepped up to the plate to continue to fight for a level playing field.


Ever fill out a government form? Did you notice how one of the first questions is "What is your race?" Have you notice how the government tracts and the media reports stuff by race? The "black crime rate", the "black unemployment" the number of "black births", etc. The dream is dead because now every government in the US from the feds down to the smallest township tracks people based on their race and uses race to set "standards".




TheMartianChick said:


> I am not judged by the color of my skin because there is any law on the books that says that should be. I am judged by my pigmentation because there are still people in the world who hold tightly to stereotypes about people of color and struggle to see anything beyond the melanin in my skin.


Don't fool yourself, you are judged by the color of your skin, as well as by your sexual organs, by the government based on the laws on the books. Go apply for a small business loan. Because you are black you get "preferences", because you are female you get "preferences". Go take a test for a firefighting job, by law the standards for you are lower and if by chance the "right number" people who passed the test are not "minority" the test is usually tossed out as being "racist".

But it worse than you think. Why do people stereotype you? I see two reasons. 1) Because the stereotype holds. Look at your own dealings with many of the people with your own skin color. How many of them do fit the stereotypes you are being judged by?

2) Those stereotypes are being supported if not actually driven by the government and the laws it passed. If there were no AA then when people saw you they would have no reason to think "Well she's not really qualified she's just here because of AA."


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

InvalidID said:


> I think that the portion in bold is a bit short sighted. The _master_ doesn't discriminate, he _enslaves_ people regardless of color or creed. Anyone that will fall into the trap is trapped. Saying it's a system designed to ensnare blacks is... racist.


Go back and explore the history of the system. Its like gun control, it started as racist only later in its history has it expanded to cover others.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Curious.....I don't know the facts, so I am asking:
> 
> Is the big reason why some stores sell goods labeled "fair trade"......is because the 'muslim' nations enslave young black children to pick the fields, and process in their factories, in Africa?
> I remember hearing somewhere that slavery is alive and well in Africa, today, and it is at the hands of the 'muslim' ran governments???
> ...


I think that the connection is tenuous at best. A lot of the fair trade goods come from South America, and the issue there is large plantations who hire peasants and treat them like crap. That said, there are still Arab slave traders plying their trade in Africa.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

tinknal said:


> I wonder if the NOI tells blacks that it was Muslim slave traders who originally sold them into slavery?


Most of the slave trade was because of tribal feuds and was the black on black crime of its day.Warring tribes were more than willing to sell off their enemies to slavers. It was a lucrative way for them to profit from the spoils of war. For every male slave that was sold, that was one less warrior that had to be battled later. For every female slave sold, you were eliminating an entire line from rearing up against you.

I believe that they do teach that the traders were black, but I cannot be certain that they teach that they were also Muslim. I would assume that if they do, then the concensus is that those weren't "good" Muslims as far as following the teachings.

NOI teaches the importance of reading history and their members are always studying history in the public libraries and college libraries. I got my first NOI client as a referral from the public library. There is only one sect of NOI in my city, so I assume that the other clients came by word of mouth from that first man.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Curious.....I don't know the facts, so I am asking:
> 
> Is the big reason why some stores sell goods labeled "fair trade"......is because the 'muslim' nations enslave young black children to pick the fields, and process in their factories, in Africa?
> I remember hearing somewhere that slavery is alive and well in Africa, today, and it is at the hands of the 'muslim' ran governments???
> ...


As another poster mentioned, Fair Trade refers to the practices that the raw materials were acquired and ensures that the workers were treated fairly. It can be applied to goods that come from any country. Nuts, sugar cotton, coffee, chocolate, etc...are items that are often labeled as Fair Trade because there are so many exploitative practices for the acquisition of them around the world.

Many of the issues that are happening in Africa are as a result of warring tribal factions. Although each country has a national government, there are still people who identify with their tribes. Those tribal affiliations usually are found among the more nomadic people. Those tribes are being systematically wiped out by the people who tend not to be nomadic. That is a general statement because I don't feel that I know enough about certain African nations to give you any detail. Since you mentioned Somalia, I do know that the majority of Somalis are Muslim. Again, they are split between a few different sects, so they wo not all have the exact same interpretation of the Quoran. According to Wikipedia, the majority are of the Sunni sect, with the Shia's in the minority. They also mention a few other sects that I am completely unfamiliar with.

In Rwanda, the war was between the hutu and the tutsi people. Those terms refer to social classes according to Wikipedia. I did find this quote in Wikipedia:



> The Roman Catholic Church affirms that genocide took place but argues that those who took part in it did so without the permission of the Church.[24] The Marian apparition, known as Our Lady of Kibeho, was seen in 1982. The Virgin Mary was said to have shown three visionaries a future blood bath and called for prayer and repentance. In 2001 the diocese approved the vision as "worthy of belief", indicating the Catholic Church's attitude regarding the Massacres. Reports indicate the percentage of Muslims in Rwanda has doubled since the genocide due to Muslim sheltering and protection of Tutsis and to Hutus' during the genocide.[25]
> 
> Though religious factors were not prominent (the event was ethnically motivated), in its 1999 report Human Rights Watch faulted a number of religious authorities in Rwanda, including Roman Catholic, Anglican, and other Protestants for failing to condemn the genocide directly - though that accusation was belied over time.[26] Some in its religious hierarchy have been brought to trial for their participation by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda and convicted.[24] Bishop Misago was accused of corruption and complicity in the genocide, but he was cleared of all charges in 2000.[27] Others Catholic and Protestant clergy, however, gave their lives to protect Tutsis from slaughter.[26] The majority of Rwandans, and Tutsis in particular, are Catholic, so shared religion did not prevent genocide.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

http://www.clarionledger.com/articl...cancels-protest-Southaven-Nation-Islam-center

At least part of this may have been intended to cause the MI tea party to back down. Looks like that part worked.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

watcher said:


> Do you make a field level by tilting it the other way? Think about it this way. You go to a piano competition and you are told because one time in the past one of your teacher's pupils cheated (I don't know how you cheat in a piano competitions but work with me here) so to "level the playing field" for the other people in the competition YOU are going to have your score automatically reduced by 10%.
> 
> *The problem is that you cannot reach into the minds of others and expunge the values that caused the unfair treatment to occur in the first place. You can level the playing field by changing the laws, but the laws will still be circumvented by people who don't respect them. That will give the minority person some legal recourse, but it doesn't mean that they will actually gain access to the same benefits in a timely manner. AA reserves a spot at the table to ensure that some of the historically disenfranchised folks get an opportunity.*
> 
> ...


My answers are in bold above...


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Ernie said:


> http://www.clarionledger.com/articl...cancels-protest-Southaven-Nation-Islam-center
> 
> At least part of this may have been intended to cause the MI tea party to back down. Looks like that part worked.


You know, for the world, I don't understand why the tea party would be protesting the NOI???

Whether political or religious reasons, I would think their time and money would be better spent getting their ideas OUT vs. protesting someone else's.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Ernie said:


> http://www.clarionledger.com/articl...cancels-protest-Southaven-Nation-Islam-center
> 
> At least part of this may have been intended to cause the MI tea party to back down. Looks like that part worked.


It does appear that you are correct, Ernie! I haven't heard any other mention of it.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

seedspreader said:


> You know, for the world, I don't understand why the tea party would be protesting the NOI???
> 
> Whether political or religious reasons, I would think their time and money would be better spent getting their ideas OUT vs. protesting someone else's.


Because they get led around by the nose the same as others.

Thing to keep in mind is that it's not the "tea party". It's a Mississippi branch of the tea party. They're less organized as a group than the Future Farmer's of America.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

seedspreader said:


> You know, for the world, I don't understand why the tea party would be protesting the NOI???
> 
> Whether political or religious reasons, I would think their time and money would be better spent getting their ideas OUT vs. protesting someone else's.


I remember when I asked some questions about the Tea Party before on HT, I was told that each group is separate and unaffiliated. Someone in the MI Tea Party must have thought this was a good idea and others agreed with them. You are correct, it doesn't fit with the principles of the Tea Party.(I did pay attention all of those months ago, TrickyGrandma!)


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

watcher said:


> Go back and explore the history of the system. Its like gun control,* it started as racist only later in its history has it expanded to cover others.*


 Which supports my claims. It is what it is today, regardless of what it was.

Although, I'm curious about your ideas that AA and EOE are in fact traps as well. I look forward to reading more.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

TheMartianChick said:


> The problem is that you cannot reach into the minds of others and expunge the values that caused the unfair treatment to occur in the first place. You can level the playing field by changing the laws, but the laws will still be circumvented by people who don't respect them. That will give the minority person some legal recourse, but it doesn't mean that they will actually gain access to the same benefits in a timely manner. AA reserves a spot at the table to ensure that some of the historically disenfranchised folks get an opportunity.


So you think discriminating against A in favor of B is going to make A view B as equal and cause A to respect B? Or do you think it just might make A think the only reason B has her job is because of her color and automatically have no respect for her?

OTOH, if you make the law demand equal treatment of both groups, i.e. make ALL discrimination illegal, then when A sees B he has no reason to assume she is there for any other reason than her ability.




TheMartianChick said:


> I understand your position... I just believe that we as individuals should have safety nets in place, but that the government should also have something in place to assist when there is a genuine need.


Would you think it fair if some one came to your house and forced you to give them money so they could buy food for the guy down the street (and take a few dollars for himself to cover his expenses of course)? It is not the government's job to help an individual.




TheMartianChick said:


> In my office, I track race and other data on an intake form. It is good information to have as it allows me to tailor our programming to the populations that we serve. I could ignore the fact that our city has seen an influx of people from Bosnia, Somalia and the Sudan over the years. I was able to ignore their presence from a statistical standpoint because they weren't in the neighborhoods that my agency traditionally serves. Now, they are moving in, so it makes sense for me to allocate a certain portion of my budget towards providing opportunities to them.


Sounds like you work for the government, do you? Doesn't matter, are you saying that people of different races need different treatment? If so how does that fit into King's dream?




TheMartianChick said:


> Very few of the people that I deal with fit the common stereotypes about black people. While I do know some folks who like to dress in the latest fashions and buy expensive things, they work for a living and it is not up to me to tell them how they should spend their money. I deal with college graduates, business professionals, members of the clergy, professors, contractors, politicians, bureaucrats, the media, volunteers, college students, etc...
> 
> The ones who do (kind of) fit the stereotype are high school dropouts. Our agency also operates a GED program that teaches the kids a trade at the same time. In order to be in the program, the kids have to have family support and must live in the home. The slots for the program are highly competitive and the kids have to be motivated to learn or we don't take them. We have people of all colors in our program. Being highschool dropouts makes the black kids fit a certain stereotype. The fact that they have decided to make education a priority and are striving to gain an education causes them to not quite fit the stereotype, in my opinion.


Do you think you are dealing with the norm? My wife went to a private school, then into one of top 10 engineering schools and after graduation into the US then into the Army as an officer. Needless to say, that even after all my discussions with her, she was shocked at the people she had to deal with. Why because she had spent almost her entire life around very intelligent people and had came to assume that was what the real world was like. That was what she viewed as the norm. After a few years in the real world she came to realize her view of the world was way off.

What's the real world norm for blacks? I don't know. I've dealt with the entire spectrum. From ones who have laughed at me and told me they could make more money sitting at home drawing their government check than working for me to ones who own horses which are worth more than any two houses near me combined.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

watcher said:


> So you think discriminating against A in favor of B is going to make A view B as equal and cause A to respect B? Or do you think it just might make A think the only reason B has her job is because of her color and automatically have no respect for her?
> 
> *The examples that I've given involve access to training. If you are locked out of training opportunities, then you can never be qualified for that type of position. As I stated before... I am not in favor of long term AA type programming. In the time since AA was enacted, I'm not certain that all people have access to every type of educational opportunity. Even with AA, there are other ways to discriminate.*
> 
> ...


My answers are in bold above...


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## AR Cattails (Dec 22, 2005)

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/chawnkweli

This is a live feed off their website.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

all, after taking a look at the link I can see this becoming pretty hot.

'since I cannot watch it closely foe a bit, I'm temp closing it and will check things out later about reopening it.

Angie

hours later:
I'm back - I've looked some at the link, not as bad as I thought it looked on the little computer I was checking it out on.
You have to understand - this is not usual format and type of topic for this forum. I'm leaving it and allowing it, as having a decent conversation and talking to each other and not just snips and snipes at each other.

I have reopened this thread, and PM'd TheMartianChick to let her know that the thread is open if she wishes to continue discussing things.

So, regular folks, I know - not usual here - rest of the threads will be as usual.

Angie


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

TMC you have a wonderful gift for explaining both sides of an issue, I wish that everyone was able to communicate together as well as you do with others; we are after all created the same and yet wonderfully different. As for the missing child all children should recieve the same coverage regardless of age, race, ect... A child is a child and the media should be covering it the same no matter what-I hope they find her safe and sound! My oldest daughter is biracial and has experienced some issues with other kids. What a great world it would be if everyone could learn to get along with each other and work together as one.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> As with any religious congregation, the message is often interpreted differently in the various houses of worship. From the local branch members, I've never heard that particular type of rhetoric.
> 
> *See, rhetoric or no the organization is racist. If I joined the KKK and said to you: 'I'm not a racist, I just need a place that supports white working class men.' I'd hope you would call me on that. Join the Klan, you're a Klansman and that's all there is too it. Join NOI and you are supporting their cause, which is racist.*
> 
> ...


 I did like you, mines in bold.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

TMC. You discuss with Watcher fairness and opportunity. This isn't a race issue, this is an ideological difference. You think the government SHOULD tell people who they have to hire, most of us don't.
We (I'm not speaking for EVERYONE of course) think when the government interferes with people lives and business they almost always do more harm than good. EOE and AA are prime examples.
We tend to think people should vote with their wallets. If a company doesn't like blacks and won't hire them, blacks (and anyone that is offended) simply shouldn't buy products from them. Either the company will fail, change it's mind, or prosper. All fine.

If you make laws based on race, religion, sexual orientation.... All you do is pit one group against another. It makes the problem worse instead of better.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Its early Sunday morning and the only news item I can find on the day of action, is a rally in Jacksonville FL, it said only 100 people showed up.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Its early Sunday morning and the only news item I can find on the day of action, is a rally in Jacksonville FL, it said only 100 people showed up.


Guess it turned out to be a covert action 

At least no one got hurt


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

I certainly enjoyed the Day of Unity! Nothin like a bunch of folks getting together and shooting and fighting with one another. They all United outside the ER to see who would die first. No one did. One got shipped out to a trauma center and another one took one in the foot. Of course that was over and above all the drunken family fights. Ah yes... A day of Unity...


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Nothing.
Nothing happened.
I can't find one story on the local or national news.
I can't find a story on the internet.
There is nothing in my Sunday paper......

This is why I do not get all wound around the axles. I simply cannot live my day to day life in fear......

I am so glad nothing happened.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Shygal said:


> Its early Sunday morning and the only news item I can find on the day of action, is a rally in Jacksonville FL, it said only 100 people showed up.


LOL, and that's the one Shabazz attended. Sort of embarrassing, huh?

What if you staged a protest and nobody showed up? :huh:


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Txsteader said:


> LOL, and that's the one Shabazz attended. Sort of embarrassing, huh?
> 
> What if you staged a protest and nobody showed up? :huh:


Just before this thread was closed yesterday, I was reminded of a line from the movie Forrest Gump:

'Sorry I messed up your Black Panther Party.'


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

InvalidID said:


> TMC. You discuss with Watcher fairness and opportunity. This isn't a race issue, this is an ideological difference. You think the government SHOULD tell people who they have to hire, most of us don't.
> We (I'm not speaking for EVERYONE of course) think when the government interferes with people lives and business they almost always do more harm than good. EOE and AA are prime examples.
> We tend to think people should vote with their wallets. If a company doesn't like blacks and won't hire them, blacks (and anyone that is offended) simply shouldn't buy products from them. Either the company will fail, change it's mind, or prosper. All fine.
> 
> If you make laws based on race, religion, sexual orientation.... All you do is pit one group against another. It makes the problem worse instead of better.


I'll be back later to discuss the other issues that you brought up, but I wanted to touch on this one...

If the people that are in control of the businesses, jobs, etc...refuse to hire minorities or women, then it is hard for anyone to vote with their dollars. This is not as big of an issue in modern times or in cities where more than one place may sell the items that you need. In rural areas, there often aren't many options at all. If you have a vehicle you can possibly travel someplace else in order to procure your goods. If you don't... what then? It is difficult to vote with your dollars when you aren't allowed to earn any.

(I've got to get ready for Easter at my parent's house...)


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

themartianchick said:


> just before this thread was closed yesterday, i was reminded of a line from the movie forrest gump:
> 
> 'sorry i messed up your black panther party.'


lol, yes!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Shygal said:


> Its early Sunday morning and the only news item I can find on the day of action, is a rally in Jacksonville FL, it said only 100 people showed up.


I'm sure there are a lot of disappointed Black Panthers today. Apparently their target audience is hard to rouse.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

TheMartianChick said:


> Just before this thread was closed yesterday, I was reminded of a line from the movie Forrest Gump:
> 
> 'Sorry I messed up your Black Panther Party.'


I thought of that too :happy0035:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UvkhvCh4HE[/ame]

The revolutionaries showed up, but it seems like they had a hard time getting anyone else to listen to them. In this youtube video you can hear some of the incendiary speaking and the usual "Black Power" chants. The only audience the radicals could seem to draw was a small group of kids, and apparently that because they handed out candy.

NBP lost a lot of face from this. That Shabazz character in Jacksonville got the usual draw. I think there's about 100 folks who follow him around as his entourage.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

TheMartianChick said:


> Just before this thread was closed yesterday, I was reminded of a line from the movie Forrest Gump:
> 
> 'Sorry I messed up your Black Panther Party.'


 Good one.


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## MollysMom (Apr 20, 2010)

So it fizzled? Cool! LOL!


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## puddlejumper007 (Jan 12, 2008)

so glad it fizzled, i most of the blacks think they are nuts....


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

How many times will someone cry "wolf" before we realize that the actual number of wolves is vastly overstated?


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Most of the wolves are wearing sheepskins.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Oggie said:


> How many times will someone cry "wolf" before we realize that the actual number of wolves is vastly overstated?


If I worried about what all the wastes of bandwidth had to say over whether not issuing a valid warning then I'd be ... well ... I'd be just like the wastes of bandwidth. All noise.

By the time y'all realize I'm right then the naysayers will be cowering in their closets with urine down the front of their pants, or dead by the very events they like to mock me for bringing to your attention.

Some people may appreciate posts by someone who has their ear to the wind, even if they don't always pan out. For folks like Oggie, this is just fun and games. Laugh it up.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Who needs Zombies when we have lovely HT members snipping at each other so well?


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

AngieM2 said:


> Who needs Zombies when we have lovely HT members snipping at each other so well?


 It's like an average family. We may fight among ourselves when times a fat, but we pull together when it counts... I think.

Though I suppose there are a few I'd feed to the zombies if it came down to it... HA!


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## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

Its one thing to be upset over slavery etc... but to blame every thing on something that happened a century ago is ridiculous! In my opinion "white" people in government giving in to this nonsense is nothing more than perpetuating the problem. Only thing is that no one is willing to take a stand and tell them to stop frittering away their opportunities.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

Ernie said:


> If I worried about what all the wastes of bandwidth had to say over whether not issuing a valid warning then I'd be ... well ... I'd be just like the wastes of bandwidth. All noise.
> 
> *By the time y'all realize I'm right* then the naysayers will be cowering in their closets with urine down the front of their pants, or dead by the very events they like to mock me for bringing to your attention.
> 
> Some people may appreciate posts by someone who has their ear to the wind, even if they don't always pan out. For folks like Oggie, this is just fun and games. Laugh it up.


That reminded me of the saying 'even a broken clock is right twice a day'.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Ernie said:


> If I worried about what all the wastes of bandwidth had to say over whether not issuing a valid warning then I'd be ... well ... I'd be just like the wastes of bandwidth. All noise.
> 
> By the time y'all realize I'm right then the naysayers will be cowering in their closets with urine down the front of their pants, or dead by the very events they like to mock me for bringing to your attention.
> 
> Some people may appreciate posts by someone who has their ear to the wind, even if they don't always pan out. For folks like Oggie, this is just fun and games. Laugh it up.


I'm glad you post information like this. Even though nothing happened, one day it will. It's nice to know that people are watching out for us.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Ernie said:


> If I worried about what all the wastes of bandwidth had to say over whether not issuing a valid warning then I'd be ... well ... I'd be just like the wastes of bandwidth. All noise.
> 
> By the time y'all realize I'm right then the naysayers will be cowering in their closets with urine down the front of their pants, or dead by the very events they like to mock me for bringing to your attention.
> 
> Some people may appreciate posts by someone who has their ear to the wind, even if they don't always pan out. For folks like Oggie, this is just fun and games. Laugh it up.


At some point in time, it's important to begin to make realistic evaluations of the threats to survival that actually exist.

That way, reaction to those threats can be prioritized.

When everything is viewed as a threat, and the importance of those threats is raised to a way of life, the perception of everything that happens becomes a self-perpetuating theological system.

The sad truth is that those sorts of people are probably a bigger threat to my safety than some ineffective and impotent &#8220;Black Power&#8221; rally.

But, I&#8217;m also fully aware that those sorts of hyper, vigilant , even paranoid &#8220;survivalists&#8221; are still far less a threat to my family&#8217;s security than tornadoes, ice storms, pandemic, random street crime or flaming pumas.

I guess that one difference between you and I might be that, when I waste a bit of bandwidth, I am usually cognizant that is what I am doing.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

When I get up I want to find out what is going on that may impact my life and daily events. 
I get the weather
I come here and check Survial & General & Political and turn on KSRM at 9am my time for Sound off.

If I listen to what is out there with out seeking news I would be limited to what is avalidable to be spoonfed to me. I was not invited to the "Wedding" but I know what kind of cake will be served. Yeah that really going to impact me. 

I like all views and news posted as I can do my own searched to learn more but with out everyone posting news and events I would really be in the dark. I am a big girl and I can think for myself but I save so much time in being educated by the posters here about different subjects. So much news is really out there. So, Thanks to everyone who post.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

kasilofhome said:


> When I get up I want to find out what is going on that may impact my life and daily events.
> I get the weather
> I come here and check Survial & General & Political and turn on KSRM at 9am my time for Sound off.
> 
> ...


Very well said.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

I agree, nice post Koh.


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

I am glad you posted! But for a different reason, I'm glad it didn't happen the way it was being proposed. What that means for the future I don't know but now it seems that people of all color have better things to do than go to rallies like those.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

I'm glad you posted it too. When there is the threat of massive (according to them), violent protests from a group of thugs like the NBP, I'd like to know beforehand. So, thanks Ernie.

Not only that, but because I was made aware of it before it, it only makes it funnier that the dullards couldn't get their "unity" of the ground. HAHAHAHA


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

I don't think it is bad advice to stay away when some rabble rousing malcontents are planning a demonstration, and race has absolutely nothing to do with it. There are violent groups of all races with causes that they wish to demonstrate about and they all hope for some sort of violence so they can get themselves into the news.

Unless you are a reporter, or in the National Guard, avoid places where you know there is going to be trouble.

This one fizzled out. The next one might not. If entitlements get cut back, there might very well be some violent demonstrations. I have no wish to be attacked by demonstrators nor tear gassed by the police because I was standing in the wrong spot.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Ernie said:


> If I worried about what all the wastes of bandwidth had to say over whether not issuing a valid warning then I'd be ... well ... I'd be just like the wastes of bandwidth. All noise.
> 
> By the time y'all realize I'm right then the naysayers will be cowering in their closets with urine down the front of their pants, or dead by the very events they like to mock me for bringing to your attention.
> 
> Some people may appreciate posts by someone who has their ear to the wind, even if they don't always pan out. For folks like Oggie, this is just fun and games. Laugh it up.


I appreciate the information.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

TheMartianChick said:


> The examples that I've given involve access to training. If you are locked out of training opportunities, then you can never be qualified for that type of position. As I stated before... I am not in favor of long term AA type programming. In the time since AA was enacted, I'm not certain that all people have access to every type of educational opportunity. Even with AA, there are other ways to discriminate.


And you have made one of my points. If a person wants to discriminate he is going to do it. The AA laws just lead to what we have now, blacks being told they are second class citizens and being viewed as getting the job BECAUSE of their skin color.




TheMartianChick said:


> When A sees B, he should assume that she is there because she can do the job... period. If she fails and falls flat on her face, then she should be replaced by someone who can do the job.


Why should A make that assumption when there is a fair chance that B *did* get the job because of the fact she was "helped" based to the color of her skin due to the law?




TheMartianChick said:


> I understand your feelings on this issue...I just don't agree with them. I believe that there should be disability to cover those who are physically unable to work. I do believe that there should be programs like WIC to provide healthy foods to supplement children. I just don't believe that all of the folks on those programs should actually be receiving those benefits.


I believe everyone should follow the teachings of Christ. Would you have a problem with the government using the law to force everyone to become Christians? Or might you point out that the US Constitution (USC) does not give that power to the government? What's the difference in that and the government using the threat of force to take money from you to give directly to someone else seeing as how the USC does not give them that authority either? 




TheMartianChick said:


> While my intake form specifies race, it is actually the culture associated with the various races that helps me to determine what additional services we need to provide. If I chose not to collect that information, it makes it more difficult to write grants because some private grants are geared towards addressing particular populations or particular issues that affect people.


As far as it fitting with Dr. King's dream...it helps me to provide appropriate programming for my clients. I don't discriminate against anyone who walks through the door.

His dream wasn't to have a world where it was illegal to discriminate against someone based on their race. His dream was we would reach a point were we didn't automatically judge people base on their color and we would treat all people the same, in government and in the private sector. When you use race to make it easier to get "private grants are geared towards addressing particular populations or particular issues that affect people" you are not doing that. I can understand needing to know and track how many people only speaks French so you can allocate resources to help them integrate themselves into society, but do you really need to know what percentage of those people are oriental, black, white or other?




TheMartianChick said:


> I do believe that I am dealing with the norm... My office is located in a low to moderate income census tract. The neighborhood is a mix of 45% black, 26% Hispanic and 29% white. It provides a pretty good cross section of people. If anything, my upbringing would lead me to feel that the neighborhood and the people that I work with are far worse then they actually are.


You are dealing with YOUR norm, just as my wife was dealing with her norm when she was surrounded by very intelligent people. People automatically view things based on what's around them and view that as normal. But the fact can be what you view as normal isn't. 




TheMartianChick said:


> I think that your own statement here is the key...There is a spectrum in the black real world and it runs from the lowest of the low-income on up to the heights of millionaires. When I was a kid, the tv show Good Times was sooo embarrassing to me. I couldn't relate to it. We weren't allowed to use slang, so even my diction was a world apart from what was being depicted on the screen. We'd never been down to the welfare office. My white friends who watched it, would ask if my family was anything like what was portrayed. When the Cosby show came out, I was able to relate.


But today which do you thing the larger percentage of blacks can relate to? Having an intact family with two college educated parents or living in a home with a single parent who may have a high school diploma? IOW, which would be the norm?




TheMartianChick said:


> I think that the problem is in not seeing each person as an individual. While I have run into a few folks over the years who were mired in generational welfare, I have also seen that some people don't know how to get out. If they express an interest, then I can help them to create a blueprint out of poverty. I have also seen the ones who (seemingly) have no intention of getting off the system. This is why I say that the system is broken.


The system was set up to make it next to impossible to get out. If you were getting $600 of government support and got a job making $300 you lost ALL of you support. IOW, if you took a job you were going to have to survive on half of what you were getting. That is the system which hooked them.

I say the system is not only broken but is unconstitutional and therefore illegal.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Whew! There have been a lot of posts since my last one and I will attempt to answer some of them now and others later in the day. I had a nasty migraine yesterday and though I tried to read the comments, my head was killing me...


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Ernie said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UvkhvCh4HE
> 
> The revolutionaries showed up, but it seems like they had a hard time getting anyone else to listen to them. In this youtube video you can hear some of the incendiary speaking and the usual "Black Power" chants. The only audience the radicals could seem to draw was a small group of kids, and apparently that because they handed out candy.
> 
> NBP lost a lot of face from this. That Shabazz character in Jacksonville got the usual draw. I think there's about 100 folks who follow him around as his entourage.


I think that this is indicative of most extremists in America...only the most radical of folks will come out to support them in a rally and the rest of us sit back and shake our heads at how misguided they are...


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Astrid said:


> Its one thing to be upset over slavery etc... but to blame every thing on something that happened a century ago is ridiculous! In my opinion "white" people in government giving in to this nonsense is nothing more than perpetuating the problem. Only thing is that no one is willing to take a stand and tell them to stop frittering away their opportunities.


To blame everything that happens (or doesn't happen) on slavery doesn't make sense, but there was a long-term impact on the generations that followed. Once the slaves were freed, they still weren't viewed as being equal citizens. They still didn't have the same rights. There were Jim Crow laws, poll tests to keep them from voting,etc.. They weren't allowed to buy property in certain areas and were often lynched or beaten for simple "offenses" like looking at a white woman. 

These things made it difficult for people to even attempt to move forward. I think it was around twelve or thirteen years ago, my family took our first vacation to Florida. Some of the relatives (in their 60's and 70's) were afraid that something would happen to us because we were staying in what they considered to be a "white" area...Those relatives wanted us to make sure that we didn't go out after dark. We were staying in Treasure Island, for goodness sake. Those lessons learned at an early age can be awfully hard to shake off and can cause you to not be able to correctly discern between opportunities and genuine threats.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

kasilofhome said:


> When I get up I want to find out what is going on that may impact my life and daily events.
> I get the weather
> I come here and check Survial & General & Political and turn on KSRM at 9am my time for Sound off.
> 
> ...


That is sort of how I use HT... There are some days when I just don't have time to check the news. When I do have time to check, it is usually not news that is being aired. While I may know every detail about the royal wedding, I still haven't figured out if it is going to rain today. Even with cable, there is no news and far too many commercials.

I gain a lot of information here and believe that it is due to the geographic diversity that we have here. I can generally figure out the weather based upon what the folks in Ohio report.

If there was ever a major attack/news event, or whatever... I would probably come here to get a quick and broad overview of what was going on. This would enable me to make determinations about the scale and scope of the event. I would still have the tv or radio on, but sometimes it is nice to get the view from the street.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> To blame everything that happens (or doesn't happen) on slavery doesn't make sense, but there was a long-term impact on the generations that followed. Once the slaves were freed, they still weren't viewed as being equal citizens. They still didn't have the same rights. There were Jim Crow laws, poll tests to keep them from voting,etc.. They weren't allowed to buy property in certain areas and were often lynched or beaten for simple "offenses" like looking at a white woman.
> 
> These things made it difficult for people to even attempt to move forward. I think it was around twelve or thirteen years ago, my family took our first vacation to Florida. Some of the relatives (in their 60's and 70's) were afraid that something would happen to us because we were staying in what they considered to be a "white" area...Those relatives wanted us to make sure that we didn't go out after dark. We were staying in Treasure Island, for goodness sake. Those lessons learned at an early age can be awfully hard to shake off and can cause you to not be able to correctly discern between opportunities and genuine threats.


And I am scared to go into "black" areas after dark. Actually it's not even that I'm scared. I would never dream of going to the NE part of town during any part of the day.

It boils down to this...of all the black people in this country, the ones who are _actually_ descended from slaves would not be here at all if Africans didn't kidnap and sell each other to Muslim slave traders, who in turn sold slaves everywhere, not just the U.S. (America always being slammed as the Great Satan of Slavery is yet another distortion of history, for another thread)

Would those same descendants prefer that none of that happened at all, and they were all born in Africa? 

Sometimes the price paid by our ancestors is quite steep. We can appreciate their sacrifices and honor their memory by taking advantage of the opportunities that were gained.

There is very little compassion left in America for any group of people who decade after decade continue to be victims.

Stephen Hawking is a quadraplegic. Ray Charles was blind. We have soldiers today who are coming home from stupid wars who have lost limbs, and they continue to take care of their families. People of all walks of life have all sorts of physical and mental disabilites, and yet in spite of that are successful. 

When I see an able bodied person taking tax money or using "programs" funded by taxpayers because life is just unfair, my brain just about catches on fire.

Nothing is fair. Geez how I despise that word. It is an excuse. 

Everyone has choices. Stay in school. Move. Get a better job. Get married before you have kids. STAY married. Go to church. Teach your children how to read, how to be responsible.

IF I choose to help someone or donate money to a charity, that is up to me. However, when government steals my money in order to "level the playing field", that generates a lot of animosity.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

Txsteader said:


> What I haven't quite figured out yet is, exactly what _are_ their 'demands'?


More money.. From those who have any.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

TheMartianChick said:


> Whew! There have been a lot of posts since my last one and I will attempt to answer some of them now and others later in the day. I had a nasty migraine yesterday and though I tried to read the comments, my head was killing me...


That happens, don't worry about it. Just answer me and let the others go


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## Patt (May 18, 2003)

Oggie said:


> At some point in time, it's important to begin to make realistic evaluations of the threats to survival that actually exist.
> 
> That way, reaction to those threats can be prioritized.
> 
> ...


Brillant post! :thumb:


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