# Is this discrimination?



## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

A barber refused to cut woman's hair. He was fined for gender discrimination. What is your take? 

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/09/08/barbershop-fined-for-refusing-to-cut-womans-hair/


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yes, it is on the surface. If she asked for a trim or the kind of haircut he normally gives a man then it is discrimination. If she expected him to cut her hair differently the he normally does then no it would not be discrimination.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Discrimination.......naw.

Stupid.........yeah.

Give her a haircut.

Don't worry, it will grow out.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Poor guy. Seems like he wants to do the right thing. If I were him Id do a woman's hair as long as she understands that he doesn't have all the bells and whistles she might want and its pretty basic service. Then the ball is in her court.


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

basketti said:


> Poor guy. Seems like he wants to do the right thing. .


That's kind of how I feel. It also makes me wonder if she went there just to make a point.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Nope not at all especially when he said he does nOT have the right equipment to do women hair. Just another person trying to SHOVE her way into a MENS only Barbershop. MEN only haircuts. Go somewhere else it IS your choice in the matter. Why in the world TRY to go into a MENS only Barbershop unless there is a underlying alternative? LOL


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

We are going to see much more of this type of foolishness. People are going to pile on, some for money, some to wield power over others. It is a sickness in our culture.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

If he doesn't cut her hair, she sues him.
If he cuts it and she doesn't like how it turns out, she sues him.
What a screwed up country we are getting to be.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

FarmerKat said:


> That's kind of how I feel. It also makes me wonder if she went there just to make a point.


Yeah...it seems like that might be the case. It would be nice if people could just stop being jerks.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Actually lots of females use the barber when they have simple haircuts. It is cheaper and most barbers have been in business in the same locations for years and are reliable.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

She's just being a pill. I bet there is another place she could get her hair cut within walking distance. She just wanted to disrupt the "male enclave" of this barber shop. 

Kinda like a "big and tall" man getting Victoria's Secret in trouble because they didn't carry a bustier in his size. 

Why waste our time and resources over silly stuff?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

arabian knight said:


> Nope not at all especially when he said he does nOT have the right equipment to do women hair. Just another person trying to SHOVE her way into a MENS only Barbershop. MEN only haircuts. Go somewhere else it IS your choice in the matter. Why in the world TRY to go into a MENS only Barbershop unless there is a underlying alternative? LOL


I actually our local barber to trim my hair a couple time simply because his shop was the only shop in town who was willing to help me in when I was on crutches and he was very honest about what he could and couldn't do. He could trim but no drying, styling, highlights etc. He requested I call when I was parked and he and one of his clients helped me across the ice into his shop and back to my car, unlike the salons I called who were too busy to offer any help at all.

The barber in the article seems to have taken the fine fairly reasonably but in this case, I really don't feel it is gender discrimination at all because he wouldn't have the proper equipment to provide the implied service she was requesting.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

basketti said:


> Yeah...it seems like that might be the case. It would be nice if people could just stop being jerks.


Yeppers, that would be nice, but what are the odds? Have you read many of the threads here in GC? There is even a rule about being nice and look at all the bitterness and hatred that bubbles up in nearly every thread at some point!


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## TMTex (Apr 5, 2013)

Sorry, but reading the full story makes it look exactly like discrimination to me. If he's thinking women need "champagne and mimosas" to have their hair cut, he's pretty much out there.

I took my wife to "Sports Cuts", which is a "gentlemen's hair salon" and fully expected them to cut her hair and they would have until she said she wanted to go somewhere else. I wasn't trying anything on. I was just getting a haircut and figured she could do the same.

Compounding the issue, his attitude shows who he is when he says he wants to open another discriminatory shop and exclude men. 

He got off pretty light if you ask me. He was fined and not sued. A lawsuit would have been a lot more than $750, even if he didn't "lose".


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

He doesn't sound off his rocker, at least based on that article. Who knows what the whole truth looks like. But, it sounds like he's offering services that cater to a certain demographic. Not even just all men, but certain men who want an upscale male spa like experience for barber services. 

Sounds like he says he wants to do the same thing for a women's service salon. For certain women who wantban upscale female spa like experience for salon services.

I'd almost say that what's the difference creating a private type experience for personal grooming services. It's not uncommon for salons to offer lots of services including wax hair removal. That can be pretty private depending on where the waxing is done on the body. He might be making a good business decision by offering customers a gender limited environment for their comfort.

But, then I may be behind the times in saying that, lol. I just read about a school in San Fran (?), well somewhere in California that is doing away with gender specific bathrooms. Apparently having boy, girl, and unspecified wasn't good enough, so they're planning to make all the bathrooms go "ally mcbeal" style in the near future, so no one is segregated into ANY gender group. YIKES!


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

It sounds like this barber shop is going for more than a place to get a hair cut. He is going for a certain "men only" theme. I imagine there are some guys who would not like his shop (maybe not many, but some). Just like many women would enjoy going to a women-only place that serves free mimosas but maybe not all. 

Where we used to live they opened a new kids' hair salon. It was more than just a place to get a hair cut, it was a place for kids to play, have a good time and get a hair cut. They had only kid size chairs, etc. Would it be unreasonable for them to refuse an adult haircut? Would that be age discrimination? 

I think that a business should be able to cater to a certain clientele. I can also see where a barber who has never cut a woman's hair may simply not feel he has the skills to do that.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

TMTex said:


> Sorry, but reading the full story makes it look exactly like discrimination to me. If he's thinking women need "champagne and mimosas" to have their hair cut, he's pretty much out there.
> 
> I took my wife to "Sports Cuts", which is a "gentlemen's hair salon" and fully expected them to cut her hair and they would have until she said she wanted to go somewhere else. I wasn't trying anything on. I was just getting a haircut and figured she could do the same.
> 
> ...


I didn't think the idea of opening a women's shop was discriminatory but more of a verbal shortcut. There are hair salon/day spas that offer very much the service he mentioned although those I'm familiar with offer mimosas and lattes while customers get manicures, pedicures, trims, highlights, lowlights, dye jobs, eyebrows arched, etc. They do accept any gender of client but they do cater to women.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Yes, but seriously,

*Any* woman is going to let a barber cut her hair? It would be fun to hear the complaints afterwards - provided it was not my spouse. 

It sounds like a setup. Guys can't even hang out in their own _guy_ place any more.

No wonder the divorce rate is 60% and climbing.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Had a woman who ran a beauty shop cut my hair once.... She warned me ahead of time that I should find someone else as she had no experience with cutting white folks hair. Dummy me, I learned the hard way, she was sweet about it though, wouldn't take a dime for that "haircut".


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Yeppers, that would be nice, but what are the odds? Have you read many of the threads here in GC? There is even a rule about being nice and look at all the bitterness and hatred that bubbles up in nearly every thread at some point!



I don't feel any bitterness or hatred for anyone here. 
Lol I rather like you all. 
Sometimes I do feel like if I could just explain things better people would understand and I get frustrated that I can't.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

plowjockey said:


> Yes, but seriously,
> 
> *Any* woman is going to let a barber cut her hair? It would be fun to hear the complaints afterwards - provided it was not my spouse.
> 
> ...


we shoulda seen this coming when they let girls in the boy scouts!


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Of course it's discriminatory. It used to be good to be discriminating. The word has be hijacked into meaning something bad. 

The world is now made for the carpers of the world. There is no pettiness too small that it can not find someone to make a big deal out of it to the detriment of all.

So now there will be unisex barbershops with unisex bathrooms full of people dressed in unisex clothing, making unisex mistakes and telling unisex jokes if they can find a topic not offending someone there.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> *I don't feel any bitterness or hatred for anyone here. *
> Lol I rather like you all.
> Sometimes I do feel like if I could just explain things better people would understand and I get frustrated that I can't.


Me neither, but some of our members do seem to enjoy snipping and sniping with each other.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Salons use to be just for women. Men now spend as much time in them as women. Now then men think it is a problem if women want a haircut in a barbrshop. Poor men.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

I don't get the problem here.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

plowjockey said:


> Yes, but seriously,
> 
> *Any* woman is going to let a barber cut her hair? It would be fun to hear the complaints afterwards - provided it was not my spouse.
> 
> ...


As I stated, I needed a haircut while I was on crutches (which was way longer than temporary) and I actually enjoyed my barber shop experience and it was your small town kinda barbershop not the metrosexual kind. 

To be quite honest, I preferred listening to politics, cattle prices, crop yields and such over who Jane is doing, how trashy Alice looks in that awful green sweater and how chubby Donna has gotten. 

To be fair, I did call in and ask if they could possibly help me because of their location and shop layout (both salons are second floor, stairs only locations) and gave them the option to decline my request and the rules were explained pretty clearly but if they had declined, I sure wouldn't have been upset in any way.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Me neither, but some of our members do seem to enjoy snipping and sniping with each other.


Ah- I feel the love........


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

When I was a kid, men went to barber shops and women and children went to beauty salons. A boy thought it was a great thing and it meant he was a "big boy" when he was old enough to visit the barber shop. 

I too think it's just a woman wanting to shove her way in where she isn't welcome. Sorry ladies, but men gotta have their own little "hen parties".


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Danaus29 said:


> When I was a kid, men went to barber shops and women and children went to beauty salons. A boy thought it was a great thing and it meant he was a "big boy" when he was old enough to visit the barber shop.
> 
> I too think it's just a woman wanting to shove her way in where she isn't welcome. Sorry ladies, but men gotta have their own little "hen parties".


But, but but..... lack of welcome is the whole ball of discrimination wax. Too bad you can't pick and chose which groups you will allow to be discriminated against or not.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

But the difference is that women can easily chase a man out by talking about cycles and bodily functions. No man I know is going to set and listen to that conversation. Men just don't have the same privilege.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Danaus29 said:


> But the difference is that women can easily chase a man out by talking about cycles and bodily functions. No man I know is going to set and listen to that conversation. Men just don't have the same privilege.


Of course they do- bodily finction noises, boob jokes, women's sex appeal or lack of it, etc are male versions of the same thing. You've just never been on the other side of the partition.


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## TMTex (Apr 5, 2013)

wr said:


> I didn't think the idea of opening a women's shop was discriminatory but more of a verbal shortcut. There are hair salon/day spas that offer very much the service he mentioned although those I'm familiar with offer mimosas and lattes while customers get manicures, pedicures, trims, highlights, lowlights, dye jobs, eyebrows arched, etc. They do accept any gender of client but they do cater to women.


The shops you're talking about accept any gender, but cater to women. 

But he didn't say he wanted to open a women's shop. He said he wanted to open a shop where men weren't allowed. He was fined for refusing service based on gender. Exclusion based on gender is one of the definitions of discrimination. It seems pretty clear cut to me.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

where I want to said:


> But, but but..... lack of welcome is the whole ball of discrimination wax. *Too bad you can't pick and chose which groups you will allow to be discriminated against* or not.


You'd like to be able to choose?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

where I want to said:


> Of course they do- bodily finction noises, boob jokes, women's sex appeal or lack of it, etc are male versions of the same thing. You've just never been on the other side of the partition.


You got me there. No, I've never been in a barber shop.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

wr said:


> As I stated, I needed a haircut while I was on crutches (which was way longer than temporary) and I actually enjoyed my barber shop experience and it was your small town kinda barbershop not the metrosexual kind.
> 
> To be quite honest, I preferred listening to politics, cattle prices, crop yields and such over who Jane is doing, how trashy Alice looks in that awful green sweater and how chubby Donna has gotten.
> 
> To be fair, I did call in and ask if they could possibly help me because of their location and shop layout (both salons are second floor, stairs only locations) and gave them the option to decline my request and the rules were explained pretty clearly but if they had declined, I sure wouldn't have been upset in any way.


Fair enough and that was very good of them, but I believe, that - in general, men really sometimes want their own place, where they can be men - at least for a little while.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Considering that the barber was fined by the same state board that certified and licensed him , apparently the board concluded that he was qualified and bonded to serve the woman and refusing to do so was discrimination.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Trixie said:


> I don't get the problem here.


I don't either. I have been to the barber shot and had my hair cut by a man. I took my husband to a salon today and a woman cut his hair.
He and I went together to a barber shop in Key West and we both had our hair cut by the same man.
Most hair cutting places around here are unisex.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

plowjockey said:


> Fair enough and that was very good of them, but I believe, that - in general, men really sometimes want their own place, where they can be men - at least for a little while.


I wouldn't make it a habit of it because you're right, the guys were gracious enough to accommodate me when I had a challenge but I don't think they truly value a gal in their zone while they get a trim and a shave anymore than women would enjoy a man in their zone when they're getting a facial and waxing. 

I've worked most of my life in male dominated industries and I firmly believe that there are enough natural differences between genders that space and comfort zones are essential which is kinda harsh because the barber gave me a better haircut.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

This woman booked appointments for her boyfriend and herself. Just like many couples book appointments to get manicures and pedicures together. She asked for a hair cut commonly given to men. Where better to go for a man style haircut than a place that cuts men's hair. She went to the experts. She was told the shop didn't have the right equipment to cut her hair. What were they lacking? Clippers, scissors, combs? She was there, she wanted her hair cut, she was told no because she's a woman. It was illegal discrimination. 

Should she have made a case out of it. Probably not, but I wasn't there and we've only heard the shop's version of how polite they were to her. Maybe both sides can learn something.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Of course the start of barbershops where is where you would go and get healthy by getting some blood drained out "Blood Letting". LOL


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

double double


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

OY VEY
If he HAD cut her hair, and it was not 'perfect' she would have sued for a bad hair cut.

All the pot stirrers are NOW looking for their 15 min of fame.
THEY are LOOKING for someone to 'offend / discriminate'

This is gonna come back to bite us.

Years ago, in a town I used to live , the TORNADO sirens would go off when a Tornado WARNING was issues. 
*A warning* means there is one on the ground, seek shelter RIGHT NOW.
Well, 'the leaders' of this town thought "we should sound the siren when they issue a watch so people will pay attention'.......
THEN they thought "hey, let's sound the TORNADO siren when a severe thunderstorm warning is issued so that people will pay attention".

From April to October that siren was going off ALL THE TIME. 
After 1 season of the constant screaming siren people stopped paying attention to it all together.
Schools quit 'moving children to the safe place' when the siren went off because it was going off when the skies were blue.....

That community was VERY LUCKY that a "Joplin" type tornado didn't come tearing thru; the casualties would have been unfathomable.
A new mayor was elected, and the Tornado siren went back to going off ONLY when a Warning was issued......

My point?

These fools are gonna 'cry wolf' so many times, that when TRUE REAL discrimination happens.........no one cares. Nothing will be done.......


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

She did not sue, she did not go on TV. She reported someone for discrimination. Accusing her of wanting her 15 minutes of fame is crappy.

She might have not even have known that he would get a fine.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

http://consumerist.com/2015/09/08/p...ershop-fined-for-refusing-to-cut-womans-hair/

SHE made the appointment ON LINE, which is CLEAR on the type of shop this is:

http://www.mybarbiere.com/

I CALL BS she knew what she was doing..........


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> http://consumerist.com/2015/09/08/p...ershop-fined-for-refusing-to-cut-womans-hair/
> 
> SHE made the appointment ON LINE, which is CLEAR on the type of shop this is:
> 
> ...


You can call whatever you wish. You can ascribe whatever motives to the woman you wish. Her motive doesn't change the facts. She was turned away from a business operating as a public accomodation based on her sex. That's an illegal act of discrimination. If it makes you feel better, superior, more self righteous or whatever by judging the motives of a woman you don't know, haven't met, and only know through the limited facts presented in this story, so be it. It doesn't change the answer to the question asked, though. Care to answer that? Was it discrimination?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

mmoetc said:


> You can call whatever you wish. You can ascribe whatever motives to the woman you wish. Her motive doesn't change the facts. She was turned away from a business operating as a public accomodation based on her sex. That's an illegal act of discrimination. If it makes you feel better, superior, more self righteous or whatever by judging the motives of a woman you don't know, haven't met, and only know through the limited facts presented in this story, so be it. It doesn't change the answer to the question asked, though. Care to answer that? Was it discrimination?


No, it's a gentleman's salon. She is not a man.
If she had been a man, and he was refused service, then yes, that would have been discrimination.

Do you take your son to your OBGYN for a prostate check? Uh, no. 
An OBGYN is a doctor for females.
Is that Dr. discriminating because he / she does NOT have the tools OR skills to do prostate checks?
His / her website, door, business model is CLEARLY for women.
Attention hoes. We are a society of attention hoes. 

Oy.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

She did not want a prostate exam. She wanted a "fade" a haircut that barbershop specializes in.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> No, it's a gentleman's salon. She is not a man.
> If she had been a man, and he was refused service, then yes, that would have been discrimination.
> 
> Do you take your son to your OBGYN for a prostate check? Uh, no.
> ...


A man could be denied service for many reasons. Being a man isn't one of them. This woman wasn't denied because the shop was incapable of cutting her hair in the man's style she requested. The stylist stated that she didn't cut women's hair. Not that she couldn't, but that she didn't. What tool for this type of cut would be specialized for women's hair that wouldn't also be used on men's hair for giving the exact same style of cut?

An ob/gyn should be just as capable as any doctor of performing routine things like blood pressure checks and general health analysis that require no specialized tools or knowledge. I wouldn't expect them to be knowledgable about prostates as it is outside their normal field. Asking for a man's fade haircut doesn't seem to be outside the normal field of a man's salon. In fact , if I wanted one done well it would be exactly the type of place I would seek out. A place that has expertise. Maybe she just wanted a really good, probably overpriced, haircut.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> She did not want a prostate exam. She wanted a "fade" a haircut that barbershop specializes in.


Did I miss something? Did she ask for that haircut, can't find anything about the type requested.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> Did I miss something? Did she ask for that haircut, can't find anything about the type requested.


The link in post #45.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

no really said:


> Did I miss something? Did she ask for that haircut, can't find anything about the type requested.


Yes, she made an appointment ON LINE where it clearly says men only.
The barber OFFERED TO PAY FOR HER CUT elsewhere because he was not set up for women.
She filed suit.
ATTENTION HOE


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

They also have a female barber. That throws out all those, "we need a female free zone so we can be men" arguments.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> She did not want a prostate exam. She wanted a "fade" a haircut that barbershop specializes in.


FOR MEN
The barber OFFERED TO PAY for her haircut at the salon OF HER CHOICE.
She chose to file suit and make a small business owner pay a 750.00 fine and GET HER NAME on TV / Facebook, etc.
ATTENTION HOE


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Yes, she made an appointment ON LINE where it clearly says men only.
> The barber OFFERED TO PAY FOR HER CUT elsewhere because he was not set up for women.
> She filed suit.
> ATTENTION HOE


It does not say men only. He is as set up for women as he is for men. Same hair cut, nothing different asked for. She did not go to the papers she did not sue. If that is seeking attention then you are seeking attention by calling her a hoe.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> They also have a female barber. That throws out all those, "we need a female free zone so we can be men" arguments.


She WORKS there, not get's her hair CUT there......apple, this is an orange.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> The link in post #45.


Thanks have no idea what a fade is, but that is irrelevant LOL.. Not much in the way of fancy haircuts around here.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> It does not say men only. He is as set up for women as he is for men. Same hair cut, nothing different asked for. She did not go to the papers she did not sue. If that is seeking attention then you are seeking attention by calling her a hoe.


Just wait, in less than 5 days, she will be in the paper, on face book, on the news (oh wait, she already is; saw the report this morning), on talk radio, etc.

I'm saying; people who scream discrimination over and over and over are going to find out, the hard way, when TRUE discrimination happens, NO ONE WILL LISTEN


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> She WORKS there, not get's her hair CUT there......apple, this is an orange.


Did you read the earlier comments where the whole point of a men's salon was to get away from women? Her working there along with the female masseuses would prove that wrong.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> It does not say men only. He is as set up for women as he is for men. Same hair cut, nothing different asked for. She did not go to the papers she did not sue. If that is seeking attention then you are seeking attention by calling her a hoe.


http://www.mybarbiere.com/

ON the main page: BARBIERE IS A HIGH END GENTLEMENS BARBER SHOP.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Just wait, in less than 5 days, she will be in the paper, on face book, on the news (oh wait, she already is; saw the report this morning), on talk radio, etc.
> 
> I'm saying; people who scream discrimination over and over and over are going to find out, the hard way, when TRUE discrimination happens, NO ONE WILL LISTEN


It is so nice of you to be judge and jury without any evidence. Maybe it was the Barber who is pushing this in the news so he can get his 5 minutes of fame.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> http://www.mybarbiere.com/
> 
> ON the main page: BARBIERE IS A HIGH END GENTLEMENS BARBER SHOP.


Where does it say no women or men only?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> Did you read the earlier comments where the whole point of a men's salon was to get away from women? Her working there along with the female masseuses would prove that wrong.


Stay on point.
SHE KNEW it was a barbershop that was for MALE CLIENTS, exclusively, and she INTENTIONALLY scheduled an appointment to cause a media firestorm.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The facts are she wanted a men's cut and she went to a place that specializes in it at a very decent price. They discriminated by refusing to provide the same service that they would provide to men.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Stay on point.
> SHE KNEW it was a barbershop that was for MALE CLIENTS, exclusively, and she INTENTIONALLY scheduled an appointment to cause a media firestorm.


I get you are trying to prove your theory of the facts but you are failing.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Even though technically, the incident could be wedged with a shoehorn into the category of discrimination, no harm was done to this woman and calling the authorities to "investigate" did a lot more harm overall than her moment of "discrimination". Taxpayer resources were wasted investigating. The proprietor offered to buy her a haircut at another establishment. She was not harmed or mistreated, she just didn't get her way. The ruling and fine sets her up to file a civil suit and transfer some of the barber's money to her pocket, which I suspect is her base motivation in all of this. 

This is the equivalent of one kid whining because the other kid got a bigger cookie. That's discrimination, too, but not the kind to waste taxpayer resources over.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> FOR MEN
> The barber OFFERED TO PAY for her haircut at the salon OF HER CHOICE.
> She chose to file suit and make a small business owner pay a 750.00 fine and GET HER NAME on TV / Facebook, etc.
> ATTENTION HOE


She was there, she had an appointment, they had the ability to cut her hair in a style they did often and well. She was denied survice because she was a woman. Illegal discrimination or not? A question you still haven't answered.

As for who is craving attention. I see the shop's name in the story. I see the owner interviewed. I see comments by the stylist in question. I see no mention of the woman being interviewed and marching in front of cameras. Isn't it hard to get attention if you choose to stay out of the limelight? Who's really whoring themselves for attention here? Maybe the owner who's getting lots of free publicity for his $750.


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## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

So if I take a viagra and walk into a woman's salon demanding a bikini wax, what happens? If they refuse to work on me is that discrimination? LOL


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> Where does it say no women or men only?


You just made my point.
There are people in this world that look for butthurt, seek out a place to cry discrimination, get their 15 min of fame.

Clinton asked for a definition of "sex".
Really Bill, did you miss the sex ed class in 4th grade? 
Really Bill, are you not a married man w/ a kid?

When you go to a restaurant w/ no kids menu, 1 high chair and 1 booster seat (because the law requires it) GOOD CHANCES ARE, they are not a 'kid friendly restaurant. SO CHOOSE from the 10 gazilion other places to eat.
No.......in 2015, just whine and cry "discrimination" and you will get your face on TV and Social Media; you may win money for doing nothing more than being a whiny entitled spoiled brat.

Oy


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Oldshep said:


> So if I take a viagra and walk into a woman's salon demanding a bikini wax, what happens? If they refuse to work on me is that discrimination? LOL


IF they DO work on you is that sexual harrassment?


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

mmoetc said:


> She was there, she had an appointment, they had the ability to cut her hair in a style they did often and well. She was denied survice because she was a woman. Illegal discrimination or not? A question you still haven't answered.
> 
> As for who is craving attention. I see the shop's name in the story. I see the owner interviewed. I see comments by the stylist in question. I see no mention of the woman being interviewed and marching in front of cameras. Isn't it hard to get attention if you choose to stay out of the limelight? Who's really whoring themselves for attention here? Maybe the owner who's getting lots of free publicity for his $750.


Are you man enough to make a public apology when SHE DOES come out and make her media splash in the next week?

Not discrimination.
Not illegal.
Nope. Not one bit.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Stay on point.
> SHE KNEW it was a barbershop that was for MALE CLIENTS, exclusively, and she INTENTIONALLY scheduled an appointment to cause a media firestorm.


Or maybe she wanted a nice day with her boyfriend where they could get their hair cut side by side. Maybe she wanted the cut the shop specialized in. Maybe you could show where she brought this to the media's attention. Msybevyou could prove any of the derogatory things you've claimed to know about this woman. Maybe you could answer the simple question asked.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The Barber shop is putting the womens name out there in all their interviews. Not her. She reported them for discrimination. She did not go to the news. She has declined to comment but they are spreading her name.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Are you man enough to make a public apology when SHE DOES come out and make her media splash in the next week?
> 
> Not discrimination.
> Not illegal.
> Nope. Not one bit.


Sure. I've admitted before when I've been wrong. I've stated more than once on other issues that if more facts come to light I'm willing to modify my stance on something. Now, what's the statute of limitations on her filing suit? If I come back a month from now and no lawsuit has been filed will I only be told- just wait. 6 months? A year? 5 years? Or will next week really suffice. When will you admit you're wrong about this woman?


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## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

Just a few reverse examples to put things in perspective, if you answer yes to one but no to the other then you have some prejudices;

1. Christian baker refuses to bake wedding cake for gay couple...discrimination?

1a Black baker refuses to bake cake for KKK themed wedding...discrimination?

2 Barber at mens barber shop refuses to cut woman's hair...discrimination?
2a Salon refuses to do bikini wax on a man....discrimination?

If you answered "Yes" to one but "no" to the other, then you are racially/sexually/ religiously prejudiced and have serious flaws in your logic and/or morality.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Oldshep said:


> Just a few reverse examples to put things in perspective, if you answer yes to one but no to the other then you have some prejudices;
> 
> 1. Christian baker refuses to bake wedding cake for gay couple...discrimination?
> 
> ...


Or maybe there are just flaws in your question.


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## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

painterswife said:


> Or maybe there are just flaws in your question.


No flaws. equal and opposite scenarios.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> Or maybe there are just flaws in your question.


Only because it doesn't match your opinion or agenda........

I am ALL about open mindedness......but don't open your mind so much your brain falls out. At least that's what I have been told......


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> The Barber shop is putting the womens name out there in all their interviews. Not her. She reported them for discrimination. She did not go to the news. She has declined to comment but they are spreading her name.


wait for it..........


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Only because it doesn't match your opinion or agenda........
> 
> I am ALL about open mindedness......but don't open your mind so much your brain falls out. At least that's what I have been told......


That would be your opinion.


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## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

Just for the record, I answer "YES" to all those scenarios. They are ALL forms of discrimination and everybody should have the right to discriminate for any reason. We all do.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

This is one of those things I kinda just shake my head and wonder about. 

Maybe she should volunteer at a woman's shelter and realize how trivial her complaints are. 

Discrimination or not, the judge decided, the fine was minimal. The shop owner has to change his business model to suit present day litigious society. 

Get the feeling no matter what you do or how hard you try everyone is breaking a law.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> This is one of those things I kinda just shake my head and wonder about.
> 
> Maybe she should volunteer at a woman's shelter and realize how trivial her complaints are.
> 
> ...


She did what she thought was right. Maybe she thought he would just get a slap on the wrist. We don't know her motivation or what she thought the outcome would be. It may not be how you would handle it but judging her without knowing her mindset as harshly as some have is overstepping in the opposite direction.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Oldshep said:


> Just a few reverse examples to put things in perspective, if you answer yes to one but no to the other then you have some prejudices;
> 
> 1. Christian baker refuses to bake wedding cake for gay couple...discrimination?
> 
> ...


The answer is that they're all discrimination but not all neccessarily illegal. A lot depends on circumstance. I don't know how many times in answer to how many queries I must state this before it's believed. Discrimination is not illegal in this country. Certain discriminatory acts are illegal. Businesses and individuals discriminate openly and legally in this country every single day.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

painterswife said:


> They also have a female barber. That throws out all those, "we need a female free zone so we can be men" arguments.


 So What if the shop does.

When the person was on line what do you think this meant anyway?



> Barbiere is a *high end Gentleman's Barber Shop *located in the heart of Washington Pennsylvania


 You dern right she KNEW just what the heck she was doing and going to do. Period.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

He should have given her a high and tight, Sargent Carter, Marine corps, flat top.
Then she wouldn't be back bother him anymore.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

arabian knight said:


> So What if the shop does.
> 
> When the person was on line what do you think this meant anyway?
> 
> ...


There seem to be a lot of "gentleman's clubs" in certain areas. I've heard tell of women going in to enjoy the entertainment offered. Where better to get a gentleman's hair cut than in a establishment that specializes in them? A pet groomer?


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## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

mmoetc said:


> The answer is that they're all discrimination but not all neccessarily illegal. A lot depends on circumstance. I don't know how many times in answer to how many queries I must state this before it's believed. Discrimination is not illegal in this country. Certain discriminatory acts are illegal. Businesses and individuals discriminate openly and legally in this country every single day.


Exactly my point. So why are some types discrimination OK and others are not? If the law allows for me to be discriminated against as a white man, but doesn't allow for equal and opposite discrimination of a black man than that amounts to institutionalized racism.


Those engaging in this racism, or condoning it are racists. During segregation, those engaging in it were perfectly within their legal rights.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Oldshep said:


> Exactly my point. So why are some types discrimination OK and others are not? If the law allows for me to be discriminated against as a white man, but doesn't allow for equal and opposite discrimination of a black man than that amounts to institutionalized racism.


Show me the law you're talking about and I'll discuss it. I know of no such laws that make such a distinction and without a valid premise your entire argument fails. It's illegal to discriminate in public accomodations based on race, religion, national origin and sex. In some places, not all, sexual orientation is included. Differing laws don't exist for blacks and whites. The law, as it should, applies to all. 

The ability to legally discriminate equally applies to all. There are establishments across this land that don't allow people in who meet all variety of protected classes. There are racist establishments, both black and white and probably others, religous bias, anti whatever country you choose to name and places that legally exclude both women and men and those that don't allow gays. All perfectly legally. What they cannot do is pretend to be open to the public and then operate this way. They don't get to define public. Public includes everyone. It doesn't make any of this moral or immoral , right or wrong. You can judge those things for yourself. All the law does is make them legal or illegal.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

I didn't realize men's hair and women's hair was different, especially when the female client is wanting a "men's" haircut. Did she have long hair and want it buzzed off? What if a man had long hair and wanted it buzzed off? Because one is female he couldn't do it? I doubt he'd turn away a man with long hair. 

This makes no sense. It doesn't have anything to do with genitals, and those suggesting a bikini wax or GYN visit being the same are seriously off base. 

We should just go back to the early 1800's when women and black people (and other minorities) were treated like trash with no rights. That's a much better idea.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Fishindude said:


> He should have given her a high and tight, Sargent Carter, Marine corps, flat top.
> Then she wouldn't be back bother him anymore.


I'm pretty sure that's exactly what she asked for.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Isn't ANYTHING sacred anymore? this is getting WAY out of this world that their can't be such things that ONLY allow one gender to enter and take part. This is getting beyond ridiculous that EVERYTHING including bathrooms HAVE to now be multi-gendered. Stupid these PC groups are getting these days.~!


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

arabian knight said:


> Isn't ANYTHING sacred anymore? this is getting WAY out of this world that their can't be such things that ONLY allow one gender to enter and take part. This is getting beyond ridiculous that EVERYTHING including bathrooms HAVE to now be multi-gendered. Stupid these PC groups are getting these days.~!


I never thought of a haircut as a sacrament. I suppose there must be some religion where it is.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

painterswife said:


> She did what she thought was right. Maybe she thought he would just get a slap on the wrist. We don't know her motivation or what she thought the outcome would be. It may not be how you would handle it but judging her without knowing her mindset as harshly as some have is overstepping in the opposite direction.


You don't know her mindset either, and yet you are going just as far overboard in defending her. 

"She did what she thought was right" - that is pure speculation. We have no idea what she was thinking or what her motivations were.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MO_cows said:


> You don't know her mindset either, and yet you are going just as far overboard in defending her.
> 
> "She did what she thought was right" - that is pure speculation. We have no idea what she was thinking or what her motivations were.


Okay how about I modify that with "Maybe" she did what she thought was right. At least I did not call her a hoe.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

MDKatie said:


> I didn't realize men's hair and women's hair was different, especially when the female client is wanting a "men's" haircut. Did she have long hair and want it buzzed off? What if a man had long hair and wanted it buzzed off? Because one is female he couldn't do it? I doubt he'd turn away a man with long hair.
> 
> This makes no sense. It doesn't have anything to do with genitals, and those suggesting a bikini wax or GYN visit being the same are seriously off base.
> 
> We should just go back to the early 1800's when women and black people (and other minorities) were treated like trash with no rights. That's a much better idea.


Why yes, it does have to do with genitalia. Because it is no surprise that biology can't be sued, educated, legislated or protested out of existence. People can be trained into thinking fantasically only up to a certain point when reality intrudes.

The over dramatic stating of the issues not withstanding, men and women behave differently in many ways in groups of the same and different sexes. Many of these conventions between the sexes are fairly arbitrary and can be changed by will but the basic desire to form seperate groups and escape from these conventional controls is present universally. It frees people from having worry about the tensions created by inherent differences.

Simply having different genitalia, with their corresponding issues, drives and goals, seperates people at times to share information and duties. And to form bonds with the same sex that might very well be inhibited by natural competition in mixed groups.

The point should be to change the conventions- what, when and where- that are misused to exclude one group from benefits but not expecting to break into these useful groups at whim. 

That reminds me that I have to talk to my doctor's staff about them including different magazines other than golf and investing journals in the waiting room.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

mmoetc said:


> I never thought of a haircut as a sacrament. I suppose there must be some religion where it is.


 My goodness there is another meaning for that phrase because a religious one.
*
It means that like you really have nothing of your own, that any old person can just go trampling over everything* Including a MENS Barbershop when some person other then male wants to no demands to get a haircut.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

There ought to be a de minimus tolerance for small business.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

where I want to said:


> Why yes, it does have to do with genitalia. Because it is no surprise that biology can't be sued, educated, legislated or protested out of existence. People can be trained into thinking fantasically only up to a certain point when reality intrudes.
> 
> The over dramatic stating of the issues not withstanding, men and women behave differently in many ways in groups of the same and different sexes. Many of these conventions between the sexes are fairly arbitrary and can be changed by will but the basic desire to form seperate groups and escape from these conventional controls is present universally. It frees people from having worry about the tensions created by inherent differences.
> 
> ...


If your genitals are involved in your haircuts, you may want to find a new barber. 

One haircut (the very rare female haircut) would not harm his precious bonding time with other men.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

MDKatie said:


> If your genitals are involved in your haircuts, you may want to find a new barber.
> 
> One haircut (the very rare female haircut) would not harm his precious bonding time with other men.


Since you think that the difference between men and women does not involve genitalia, you might want to take a biology course. Misdirected sarcasm is not making a point. You know the issue I was discussing had nothing to do with your remark, which was only made because it was thought to be clever rather than correct.

And you also know, or should know, there was no expectation of suing over a one time incident. It's goal is to change all future transactions.

One snark derves another- but it's a silly way to debate. Good for late night tv monologs though.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> IF they DO work on you is that sexual harrassment?


When they rip off the first wax layer, the Viagra will have no effect anymore


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

where I want to said:


> Since you think that the difference between men and women does not involve genitalia, you might want to take a biology course. Misdirected sarcasm is not making a point. You know the issue I was discussing had nothing to do with your remark, which was only made because it was thought to be clever rather than correct.
> 
> And you also know, or should know, there was no expectation of suing over a one time incident. It's goal is to change all future transactions.
> 
> One snark derves another- but it's a silly way to debate. Good for late night tv monologs though.


And YOU know what I meant when I said genitalia isn't involved in this case. The woman wanted a haircut that is popular with men. There was no reason her genitalia has any bearing on the haircut, which is the topic here. Barber said he was not set up for cutting women's hair. She wanted the same kind of haircut he already did. 

Nobody said he had to change his entire business model to include women's haircuts. 

And yes, the goal of discrimination suits or complaints is to put and end to discrimination.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Oldshep said:


> No flaws. equal and opposite scenarios.


No, they were all different scenarios, with differing details and different rules.



> 1. Christian baker refuses to bake wedding cake for gay couple...discrimination?
> 
> 1a Black baker refuses to bake cake for KKK themed wedding...discrimination?
> 
> ...


We all know the first was discrimination.

The second is a fantasy unless you have documentation it's ever really happened, although most bakers regardless of race would (and legally could) refuse a cake with a theme promoting a "hate group"

The third also seems to be "discrimination" since the only reason given for not providing the service was the customer's gender.

Number 4 is also a silly fantasy for *normal* males, although I suspect it's been done and just not talked about. 
(I'd prefer to not even THINK about something that painful)

There's no reason to think the answers should all be the same, since *all* cases depend on exact details.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

MDKatie said:


> And YOU know what I meant when I said genitalia isn't involved in this case. The woman wanted a haircut that is popular with men. There was no reason her genitalia has any bearing on the haircut, which is the topic here. Barber said he was not set up for cutting women's hair. She wanted the same kind of haircut he already did.
> 
> Nobody said he had to change his entire business model to include women's haircuts.
> 
> And yes, the goal of discrimination suits or complaints is to put and end to discrimination.


But with respect for the individual's right for self direction. 
Of course I knew what you meant. That is how I knew it was clever rather than to any point.
The issue for me includes the wants of the businessman as well as the wants of patron. He wanted an exclusively male environment, and probably intends it should be a place that intrinically could make many women uncomfortable in order to be more comfortable for men.
That can be a source of disadvantage to women. But it is not an unreasonable or unusual desire. Anymore than it is for women to feel more relaxed in an exclusively female enviroment. It can be a selling point.
I want to examine and think about the idea if it is possible to have a reasonable compromise. 
Snark puts a halt to that process. Which seems to be its goal. Toshut down different ideas from expression.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> No, they were all different scenarios, with differing details and different rules.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually manscaping and complete bikini area hair removal (for men) is a lot more prevalent than you think. The smart ones foes electrolysis these days. Females as well. Bikini waxing over many years is actually not so good for your skin and not something that ages well.

I know not something you ever wanted to know but I am all for educating the masses.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

where I want to said:


> But with respect for the individual's right for self direction.
> Of course I knew what you meant. That is how I knew it was clever rather than to any point.
> The issue for me includes the wants of the businessman as well as the wants of patron. *He wanted an exclusively male environment, and probably intends it should be a place that intrinically could make many women uncomfortable in order to be more comfortable for men.*
> That can be a source of disadvantage to women. But it is not an unreasonable or unusual desire. Anymore than it is for women to feel more relaxed in an exclusively female enviroment. It can be a selling point.
> ...


If he wanted that he would not have a female barber and female masseuses.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Actually manscaping and complete bikini area hair removal (for men) is a lot more prevalent than you think. The smart ones foes electrolysis these days. Females as well. Bikini waxing over many years is actually not so good for your skin and not something that ages well.
> 
> I know *not something you ever wanted to know* but I am all for educating the masses.




I've long known females do it, but I seldom think of *any* male genitalia that isn't my own, and I don't wear Speedos


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

I'd have no problem cutting her hair after telling her I am not a beautician if she seemed like a good gal just wanting her hair cut back. If she seemed like someone just looking to make trouble, I would make her sign a statement acknowledging that I told her I am not a beautician and no little to nothing about cutting women's hair. Then I would proceed to give her one of those "angry Lesbian" haircuts.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Does anyone else feel like they are rubbing their face on concrete at a high rate of speed???

Slamming your head on the Hoover Dam trying to knock it down?

I really want to laugh at this whole thread, but I just shake my head because there are more and more folks out there that cannot see the elephant in the hall closet, they are living in.
Cannot see the forest for the trees.
Cannot find their backside w/ both hands in their back pockets.
This is what society has become.

No wonder us oldsters want to head for the hills and stay away from the general population.......

If a GENTLEMEN'S BARBER SHOP refused service to a black MAN because he was black? Discrimination.
Refused service to a gay MAN because he was gay? Discrimination.
Refused service to a white MAN because he was white? Discrimination.
A woman, wanting a man hair cut? 
NOT discrimination.

If my OBGYN (that's a lady doctor, for lady parts) refused service to a WOMAN because she was black, gay, white? DISCRIMINATION.
A man, with all his man parts, wanting an exam?
NOT discrimination.

One more time for the..........you know who you are..........
Proverbs 26:4


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Does anyone else feel like they are rubbing their face on concrete at a high rate of speed???
> 
> Slamming your head on the Hoover Dam trying to knock it down?
> 
> ...


I am an oldster. I don't agree with you. I have been hearing that old refrain, it's not like it use to be. What has society become my whole life. What as waste of time.

This society is getting better every single day. We don't need discrimination and people fighting against it is a good thing.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Whatever you say baby doll...


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Whatever you say baby doll...


Is that all you got? Is that your version of bless your heart? How nice of you.


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## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

What I can see from so many of these unfortunate comments is that there is a new kind of extreme prejudice effecting American society today. The white christian is the new *****. The "liberal" is the new bigot. And these "anti-discrimination/civil rights/affirmative action laws" are, ironically, the new segregation.

In nearly 100 years of battling hate, ignorance, and prejudice we've learned nothing. We've only reversed the roles. Shame on us.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Yes, she made an appointment ON LINE where it clearly says men only.
> The barber OFFERED TO PAY FOR HER CUT elsewhere because he was not set up for women.
> She filed suit.
> ATTENTION HOE


I read their website and I didn't see men only anywhere. I can see how she could make an appointment there thinking it sounded like a cool experience for her and her boyfriend. I don't think she was wrong for booking the appointment. Since she wanted a hairstyle they were perfectly capable of cutting they should have done it and moved on. 

Not set up for women is just BS. A fade is a fade. There isn't any difference between the men's version and the women's.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Oldshep said:


> So if I take a viagra and walk into a woman's salon demanding a bikini wax, what happens? If they refuse to work on me is that discrimination? LOL


No they will probably just have you arrested for indecent exposure.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Male fade: 










Female fade:


----------



## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Fishindude said:


> He should have given her a high and tight, Sargent Carter, Marine corps, flat top.
> Then she wouldn't be back bother him anymore.


Or the special of the day a Mohawk :hysterical: ound:

Anyone that want's to make someone cut their hair that don't want to deserves what they get


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Or the special of the day a Mohawk :hysterical: ound:
> 
> Anyone that want's to make someone cut their hair that don't want to deserves what they get


Kinda like cussing out your waitress before she delivers your food........


----------



## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

mmoetc said:


> She was there, she had an appointment, they had the ability to cut her hair in a style they did often and well. She was denied survice because she was a woman. Illegal discrimination or not? A question you still haven't answered.
> 
> As for who is craving attention. I see the shop's name in the story. I see the owner interviewed. I see comments by the stylist in question. I see no mention of the woman being interviewed and marching in front of cameras. Isn't it hard to get attention if you choose to stay out of the limelight? Who's really whoring themselves for attention here? Maybe the owner who's getting lots of free publicity for his $750.


The failure of the lack of the woman to be a part of the interview with the shop owner


Is that discrimination too?


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Laura, perhaps it is you who clearly does not understand what discrimination is. It is not discrimination to refuse a service which you do not provide, like a gyn does NOT provide "service" for men because men do not have vaginas. Can you understand that? Both men AND women have hair (newsflash) and therefore refusal to provide a "fade" haircut which the barber DOES provide simply because the customer is a woman IS discrimination. Get it? 

Want me to repeat it? Refusing to provide a service that you DO provide because of gender, race, sexuality, religion, etc IS DISCRIMINATION. Not providing a service that you DON'T provide is NOT discrimination because you do not provide that service. Simple really. It's a shame folks can't understand that concept. 



Oldshep said:


> In nearly 100 years of battling hate, ignorance, and prejudice we've learned nothing. We've only reversed the roles. Shame on us.


It's sad that when minority groups make strides in equality, some see that as a threat.


----------



## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Kinda like cussing out your waitress before she delivers your food........


Yep some folks are just stupid .Someone in this area ask for a fade no telling what they would get . Some the barber shops here have two ways cutting men hair .Those two ways are long as they can find it and short as they can get it :hysterical:


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

> Refusing to provide a service that you DO provide because of gender, race, sexuality, religion, etc IS DISCRIMINATION. Not providing a service that you DON'T provide is NOT discrimination because you do not provide that service. Simple really. It's a shame folks can't understand that concept.


Well you know what sweetie, in the world today boys are no longer boys and girls are no longer girls.
Even looking under their skirt, you still have NO idea what's going on.....
Boys identify as girls, with full boy parts.
Girls identify as boys, with full girl parts.
Transgenders have all kinds of parts, and you have to ask 'who they are' because it depends on where they are in the process and WHAT THEY IDENTIFY as.
You're so hip to the modern times, you should know this.......





> It's sad that when minority groups make strides in equality, some see that as a threat.


In light of the world as we know it in 2015, WHAT IF, that man "identifies" as a woman, and his hiney hole IN HIS MIND IS his vagina?
They let boys, who identify as girls, with all boy parts, use ladies restrooms, locker rooms, etc.

Would it be discrimination if the man IDENTIFIES as a woman??? If the OBGYN says sorry, you're not a girl, yet he IDENTIFIES as one, and well in this wacked up world, that's called discrimination......

Yikes.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> In light of the world as we know it in 2015, WHAT IF, that man "identifies" as a woman, and his hiney hole IN HIS MIND IS his vagina?
> 
> They let boys, who identify as girls, with all boy parts, use ladies restrooms, locker rooms, etc.
> 
> Would it be discrimination if the man IDENTIFIES as a woman???


I would think that they would go to the doctor who knows their parts best no matter how they self identify. Just as the women tried to get a haircut at a place that does "FADES" for a living.

PS I think the word you were looking for is rectum.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Yep some folks are just stupid .Someone in this area ask for a fade no telling what they would get . Some the barber shops here have two ways cutting men hair .Those two ways are long as they can find it and short as they can get it :hysterical:


Right?
I don't expect a hair cut from a barber, and I don't think you shop for your skivies at Victoria's Secret.....maybe we should sue them for not selling men's blanco (it won't let me type the word "white" with a "y" on it???) tighty's??


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> *I would think that they would go to the doctor who knows their parts best no matter how they self identify*. Just as the women tried to get a haircut at a place that does "FADES" for a living.
> 
> PS I think the word you were looking for is rectum.



BUT if HE identifies as a woman, in his mind and heart, HE is A WOMAN, and expects to be treated like one, and thereby goes to an OBGYN for his 'check up".....is it discrimination for that OBGYN to turn him away????

That's a pretty clear question.........


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Right?
> I don't expect a hair cut from a barber, and I don't think you shop for your skivies at Victoria's Secret.....maybe we should sue them for not selling men's blanco (it won't let me type the word "white" with a "y" on it???) tighty's??


She wanted the same haircut they would give a man. What logical reason did they have for not providing the exact same service they give to men?


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

> Originally Posted by *painterswife*
> *I would think that they would go to the doctor who knows their parts best no matter how they self identify*. Just as the women tried to get a haircut at a place that does "FADES" for a living.


BUT if HE identifies as a woman, in his mind and heart, HE is A WOMAN, and expects to be treated like one, and thereby goes to an OBGYN for his 'check up".....is it discrimination for that OBGYN to turn him away????

That's a pretty clear question.........


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> BUT if HE identifies as a woman, in his mind and heart, HE is A WOMAN, and expects to be treated like one, and thereby goes to an OBGYN for his 'check up".....is it discrimination for that OBGYN to turn him away????
> 
> That's a pretty clear question.........


Does that doctor provide rectal exams instead of vagina exams? Not the same service, not discrimination to not provide it. i believe you know that. Why you feel like offering up ridiculous scenarios, I can not imagine.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> Does that doctor provide rectum exams instead of vagina exams? Not the same service, not discrimination to not provide it. i believe you know that. Why you feel like offering up ridiculous scenarios, I can not imagine.


Yes, the OBGYN does check a woman's rectum as part of her annual exam. 
It's only part of the exam.....as she has "other parts" that are the MAIN reason for a woman's annual exam.

So one more time......
*
If a man, identifies himself as female, and treats his rectum as his vagina, and in his mind HAS A VAGINA, and goes to an OBGYN because in his mind he is a woman and identifies as one.......and the OBGYN refuses service is that discrimination????*

Hello? Is this thing on?


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Patchouli said:


> So are you going for the 2 wrongs make a right here? Because you are obviously getting very worked up and kinda rude yourself.


No but 2 lefts make a right......

No one will answer my pretty simple question: they call names, belittle, etc (funny, I didn't see where you jumped in and denounced, my bad I must have missed that post).......

Can someone answer the simple question?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Yes, the OBGYN does check a woman's rectum as part of her annual exam.
> It's only part of the exam.....as she has "other parts" that are the MAIN reason for a woman's annual exam.
> 
> So one more time......
> ...


I see you are having fun with those wacked out scenarios. I bet the gynecologist will have no problem treating him if she or he has the expertise. He might soon have the proper plumbing for the full exam.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Yes, the OBGYN does check a woman's rectum as part of her annual exam.
> It's only part of the exam.....as she has "other parts" that are the MAIN reason for a woman's annual exam.
> 
> So one more time......
> ...



Um that is not how it works. Wow. :help:


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> No but 2 lefts make a right......
> 
> No one will answer my pretty simple question: they call names, belittle, etc (funny, I didn't see where you jumped in and denounced, my bad I must have missed that post).......
> 
> Can someone answer the simple question?


I don't know what your simple question actually is? I must have missed it.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Contrary to popular belief, larger bolder type doesn't make nonsense sensible



> (it won't let me type the word "white" with a "y" on it???)


That term is used as a racial slur
Next time use more "e's" on the end for phonetic effect


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Contrary to popular belief, larger bolder type doesn't make nonsense sensible
> 
> 
> That term is used as a racial slur
> Next time use more "e's" on the end for phonetic effect


Are you for real? That's considered a 'racial slur'????

Is Honk Key still a slur too?


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Oh my gosh, thank you so much!
You have TOTALLY answered my question! You guys, rock!!!:rock:


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Well that was bizarre......


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> No but 2 lefts make a right......
> 
> No one will answer my pretty simple question: they call names, belittle, etc (funny, I didn't see where you jumped in and denounced, my bad I must have missed that post).......
> 
> Can someone answer the simple question?


Sure. The simple answer to your simple question is no. A doctor, nor anyone else, can be expected to do the impossible. It is simply not possible to do a full gynecological exam on a male patient. It's not discrimination for a doctor to explain this and refer the patient to someone who can help them. It's simply good medicine.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

mmoetc said:


> Sure. The simple answer to your simple question is no. A doctor, nor anyone else, can be expected to do the impossible. It is simply not possible to do a full gynecological exam on a male patient. It's not discrimination for a doctor to explain this and *refer the patient to someone who can help them.* It's simply good medicine.


Kinda like offering to pay for a hair cut in a salon that caters to women hair?
Ok. Thanks!


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Kinda like offering to pay for a hair cut in a salon that caters to women hair?
> Ok. Thanks!


No it would be like asking for a hair cut if you had no hair but believed you did.


----------



## TMTex (Apr 5, 2013)

This is getting entertaining. A beer or two more and it'll be hilarious.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

TMTex said:


> This is getting entertaining. A beer or two more and it'll be hilarious.


And a big bowl of popcorn as the liberals continue to blast away nonsense once again on here. LOL


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

arabian knight said:


> And a big bowl of popcorn as the liberals continue to blast away nonsense once again on here. LOL


Labelling again. That is such a wonderful way to try to make a point.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Yes, the OBGYN does check a woman's rectum as part of her annual exam.
> It's only part of the exam.....as she has "other parts" that are the MAIN reason for a woman's annual exam.
> 
> So one more time......
> ...


It seems to me that no doctor can actually perform a cervical screening on someone that has no cervix so it would not be discriminating to refuse to perform an examination on parts that aren't there.

I haven't read of this happening but I'd be interested in this is becoming a trend.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Kinda like offering to pay for a hair cut in a salon that caters to women hair?
> Ok. Thanks!


I live in a fairly small town. One barbershop which is seldom open and whose sole proprietor and I have clashed heads more than once. The other option for getting my hair cut is the local beauty salon. They cater to the women in town. They provide many and sundry services to attract them. One of the nice ladies working there always finds time to cut my hair and take my money when I need shorn. I've never seem them reach for the men's only clippers, scissors or combs. Life isn't nearly as complicated as some wish to make it.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Well you know what sweetie, in the world today boys are no longer boys and girls are no longer girls.
> Even looking under their skirt, you still have NO idea what's going on.....
> Boys identify as girls, with full boy parts.
> Girls identify as boys, with full girl parts.
> ...


You know what, "sweetie" (gag me)? That has no bearing on getting a haircut or many other services offered, unless the service directly deals with sex organs.


In light of the world as we know it in 2015, WHAT IF, that man "identifies" as a woman, and his hiney hole IN HIS MIND IS his vagina?
They let boys, who identify as girls, with all boy parts, use ladies restrooms, locker rooms, etc.



> Would it be discrimination if the man IDENTIFIES as a woman??? If the OBGYN says sorry, you're not a girl, yet he IDENTIFIES as one, and well in this wacked up world, that's called discrimination......
> 
> Yikes.





Laura Zone 10 said:


> Yes, the OBGYN does check a woman's rectum as part of her annual exam.
> It's only part of the exam.....as she has "other parts" that are the MAIN reason for a woman's annual exam.
> 
> So one more time......
> ...


Oh good grief! Your argument is irrelevant and makes NO sense, yet you keep repeating it as if WE are the crazy ones. :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:  :doh:


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I just checked back in and was really wondering how the subject got from hair cuts to vaginas?

To me it is a whole lot of silliness.:yawn:


----------



## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

gapeach said:


> I just checked back in and was really wondering how the subject got from hair cuts to vaginas?
> 
> To me it is a whole lot of silliness.:yawn:


Would you expect anything more on here? The left always makes excuses for something that is so straight forward it should be a non story unless there was a alternative motive behind this. Which there is from the left they just can't Leave enough alone with stuff it seems these days. Talk about the Real 1984 here where everyone is the same, all automatons.
The same all that matters to them. Well that is not going to cut it, not in the USA.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

arabian knight said:


> Would you expect anything more on here? The left always makes excuses for something that is so straight forward it should be a non story unless there was a alternative motive behind this. Which there is from the left they just can't Leave enough alone with stuff it seems these days.


LEFT, LEFT, LEFT. I don't think you can post without blaming something on the left. Labeling is your go to post.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Are you for real? That's considered a 'racial slur'????
> 
> Is Honk Key still a slur too?


There's a way to find out
Honky
******

Edited to add:

Elton John will be pleased


----------



## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

MDKatie said:


> It's sad that when minority groups make strides in equality, some see that as a threat.


It is not a minority achieving equality that is the rock bottom issue. It's the insistence that everyone else change what is defined as equality to suit their perceptions that is really offensive.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Laura Zone 10 View Post
> No but *2 lefts make a right*......


Two lefts make a reverse 180
THREE lefts make a right


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> There's a way to find out
> Honky
> ******
> 
> ...


That is so odd. White E is a slur, but honky is not.
Can you say cracker? Cause I know that's a slur; silly, but supposedly a slur.
Country?
Cause that's a slur too.
*******?
Hillbilly?
Hill Jack?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Two lefts make a reverse 180
> THREE lefts make a right


I wasn't much for book learnin' tee hee.
That was the 'come back' in the country when I was a kid: 2 wrongs don't make a right, but 2 lefts do.:hysterical:


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> That was the 'come back' in the country when I was a kid: 2 wrongs don't make a right, but 2 lefts do.


I'm pretty sure you just misunderstood.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Oldshep said:


> What I can see from so many of these unfortunate comments is that there is a new kind of extreme prejudice effecting American society today. The white christian is the new *****. The "liberal" is the new bigot. And these "anti-discrimination/civil rights/affirmative action laws" are, ironically, the new segregation.
> 
> In nearly 100 years of battling hate, ignorance, and prejudice we've learned nothing. We've only reversed the roles. Shame on us.


What freedom has the "new *****" lost? Can they still walk into any restaurant they choose and be served? If they step on a bus or other public transportation can they choose where they wish to sit? Can they check into any hotel or motel they can afford? If they go to a movie can they sit where they please? Can they vote in elections without having to pass a "literacy" test? Can they purchase a house in any neighborhood they can afford? I'm pretty sure they can still do all of these things. The only thing that has changed is many people who couldn't do these things and many more now can.

Freedom isn't a finite resource. It doesn't exist as a zero sum game. Giving more people freedom doesn't diminish your freedom, it enhances everyone's. Allowing everyone to walk through an open door and avail themselves of the goods and services freely offered harms no one. If you don't wish to freely offer, close the door and open it to only those you wish. You're still free to do that.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Are you man enough to make a public apology when SHE DOES come out and make her media splash in the next week?
> 
> Not discrimination.
> Not illegal.
> Nope. Not one bit.


It's "next week". No lawsuit. No interviews. No media splash. I'm sure I'll read a reply about how it's early in the week and "just wait". Or maybe I'll hear nothing at all. But I'm patient and persistent.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

mmoetc said:


> What freedom has the "new *****" lost? Can they still walk into any restaurant they choose and be served? If they step on a bus or other public transportation can they choose where they wish to sit? Can they check into any hotel or motel they can afford? If they go to a movie can they sit where they please? Can they vote in elections without having to pass a "literacy" test? Can they purchase a house in any neighborhood they can afford? I'm pretty sure they can still do all of these things. The only thing that has changed is many people who couldn't do these things and many more now can.
> 
> Freedom isn't a finite resource. It doesn't exist as a zero sum game. Giving more people freedom doesn't diminish your freedom, it enhances everyone's. Allowing everyone to walk through an open door and avail themselves of the goods and services freely offered harms no one. If you don't wish to freely offer, close the door and open it to only those you wish. You're still free to do that.


Well, instead of a literary test to vote.. DNA tests to date ....now, to teach the next generation just who's playing it straight. 

Seems that it kinda is fraud to masquerade as one sex you're not.

Over the counter DNA test that use hair samples... or something easy to get or classifying it as fraud to socially seek out dating persons how are heterosexual to form intimate relationships..


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Why when a woman wanted a simple haircut do some have to make it about the sex act? Sex on the brain?


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

When a person Goes into a barbershop that calls itself a Gentleman's Barbershop and that person is Not A Male they have more on their mind then just getting a haircut~! They want to shove things into the face of this barbershop to open it to all sexes. Well this is a Private Business that states right on their website A Gentleman's Shop. Stay Out if not a male simple as that.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I think the best thing she should have asked was can you cut my hair or do you cut women's hair. Over a year ago that's what I asked the ( black barber) . I asked can you cut my hair because I knew he didn't cut white people's hair. The best hair cut in over 20 years . I still go there....


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

arabian knight said:


> When a person Goes into a barbershop that calls itself a Gentleman's Barbershop and that person is Not A Male they have more on their mind then just getting a haircut~! They want to shove things into the face of this barbershop to open it to all sexes. Well this is a Private Business that states right on their website A Gentleman's Shop. Stay Out if not a male simple as that.


Well that would be your opinion. Not that it counts with regards to anyone else or the laws.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> Well, instead of a literary test to vote.. DNA tests to date ....now, to teach the next generation just who's playing it straight.
> 
> Seems that it kinda is fraud to masquerade as one sex you're not.
> 
> Over the counter DNA test that use hair samples... or something easy to get or classifying it as fraud to socially seek out dating persons how are heterosexual to form intimate relationships..


So making it so that people no longer have to hide their sexuality or risk losing jobs, property, health and even life itself is such an inconvenience to your finding the love of your life that you would go back to preventing others from the same? Once again, depriving others of their rights doesn't make your rights stronger, only weaker. I fell in love with my wife long before I explored her naughty bits. Not that those naughty bits weren't important but I find those who focus only on that part of a relationship miss a lot.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

arabian knight said:


> When a person Goes into a barbershop that calls itself a Gentleman's Barbershop and that person is Not A Male they have more on their mind then just getting a haircut~! They want to shove things into the face of this barbershop to open it to all sexes. Well this is a Private Business that states right on their website A Gentleman's Shop. Stay Out if not a male simple as that.


If the owner of the business wanted to be only open to men he should have set his business model as such. He has that right. He opened his business as a public accommodation and to his chagrin the public walked in in the form of this woman. She has that right.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

mmoetc said:


> If the owner of the business wanted to be only open to men he should have set his business model as such. He has that right. He opened his business as a public accommodation and to his chagrin the public walked in in the form of this woman. She has that right.


She might have the right, but if she had any wisdom or judgement, she wouldn't exercise it. 

The barber built his business catering to male clientele. This lady decides she wants a fad haircut, which she may well only get the one time and change styles after that, yet she is perfectly willing to risk the barber losing his steady clientele in order for her to have it. His bread and butter is repeat clients who like the atmosphere he created, some of whom might not come back if they are in there at the same time as Ms. I Have Rights and think the place is going to the "hens". 

She is the equivalent of the young punk ******* boys who were in the news awhile back because they liked to stroll in to family restaurants carrying all kinds of intimidating firepower, just because "they had the right".


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MO_cows said:


> She might have the right, but if she had any wisdom or judgement, she wouldn't exercise it.
> 
> The barber built his business catering to male clientele. This lady decides she wants a fad haircut, which she may well only get the one time and change styles after that, yet she is perfectly willing to risk the barber losing his steady clientele in order for her to have it. His bread and butter is repeat clients who like the atmosphere he created, some of whom might not come back if they are in there at the same time as Ms. I Have Rights and think the place is going to the "hens".
> 
> She is the equivalent of the young punk ******* boys who were in the news awhile back because they liked to stroll in to family restaurants carrying all kinds of intimidating firepower, just because "they had the right".


Not a fad haircut. My best friend ( female) had one in the 70's in high school. She was ahead of her time and the boys were like bees to honey because of her hair cut. It became a bit of a thing back then for girls. I think it has been called the fade since the fifties in certain areas of the country.


----------



## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

mmoetc said:


> So making it so that people no longer have to hide their sexuality or risk losing jobs, property, health and even life itself is such an inconvenience to your finding the love of your life that you would go back to preventing others from the same? Once again, depriving others of their rights doesn't make your rights stronger, only weaker. I fell in love with my wife long before I explored her naughty bits. Not that those naughty bits weren't important but I find those who focus only on that part of a relationship miss a lot.


Falsely portraying your DNA... (can't say male and female pc. Cops might find that confining) to get what you want with out caring for others who would not be interested in you do to wanting only a heterosexual relationship is emotional cruelty that is totally self centered selfishness.

This is a place to voice opinions and I have one and I will take the rejection but not the bully bull. Everyone has their thought on every subject don't like mine so what their are others you will.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Falsely portraying your DNA... (can't say male and female pc. Cops might find that confining) to get what you want with out caring for others who would not be interested in you do to wanting only a heterosexual relationship is emotional cruelty that is totally self centered selfishness.
> 
> This is a place to voice opinions and I have one and I will take the rejection but not the bully bull. Everyone has their thought on every subject don't like mine so what their are others you will.


Some say they can tell a man from a women, even children can so they say. 

Why does anyone have to tell you what sex they are? Maybe you have to be responsible for asking if you don't know. You should not make assumptions based on clothes or hair or makeup. Now if you ask and they lie then that is fraud and another story all together.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

painterswife said:


> Not a fad haircut. My best friend ( female) had one in the 70's in high school. She was ahead of her time and the boys were like bees to honey because of her hair cut. It became a bit of a thing back then for girls. I think it has been called the fade since the fifties in certain areas of the country.


Well if it's that common of a haircut then there should be plenty of places she could get one done who already cater to women. 

Around here in the 70's, the style was almost no haircuts. Everybody grew their hair long, wild and free.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Have you any doubt I would ask?... I believe I have been quite able to ask questions.

Something like ...where you born with a penis... or did you shop around for it. Might become a new ice breaker question.


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## TMTex (Apr 5, 2013)

MO_cows said:


> Around here in the 70's, the style was almost no haircuts. Everybody grew their hair long, wild and free.


That was me. Well, until '78. I decided to have mine cut before going into the military. That way, it wasn't so much of a shock.

I probably saved my parents dozens of dollars in haircuts.

<edit> And bellbottoms. Can't forget those. </edit>


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MO_cows said:


> Well if it's that common of a haircut then there should be plenty of places she could get one done who already cater to women.
> 
> Around here in the 70's, the style was almost no haircuts. Everybody grew their hair long, wild and free.


She went to a barber. Then as now it is a cut that more barbers do then beauty salons. Just as a women's salon does more perms.

It was the 70's and that radical haircut for a girl was very enticing to the boys that saw mostly long hair.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

mmoetc said:


> So making it so that people no longer have to hide their sexuality or risk losing jobs, property, health and even life itself is such an inconvenience to your finding the love of your life that you would go back to preventing others from the same? Once again, depriving others of their rights doesn't make your rights stronger, only weaker. I fell in love with my wife long before I explored her naughty bits. Not that those naughty bits weren't important but I find those who focus only on that part of a relationship miss a lot.


I know what you mean, but wonder why you called it 'naughty bits'?


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Trixie said:


> I know what you mean, but wonder why you called it 'naughty bits'?


Why not? There are many terms I could have used, some more serious and clinical, but they might have conveyed a seriousness I didn't feel the person I responded to deserves. I have some friends from Ireland who introduced me to the term and in my head I always hear it with that accent. It's delightful.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> Falsely portraying your DNA... (can't say male and female pc. Cops might find that confining) to get what you want with out caring for others who would not be interested in you do to wanting only a heterosexual relationship is emotional cruelty that is totally self centered selfishness.
> 
> This is a place to voice opinions and I have one and I will take the rejection but not the bully bull. Everyone has their thought on every subject don't like mine so what their are others you will.


There are already many laws in the books dealing with the various ways people misrepresent themselves to others. I understand it happens quite often on things like internet dating sights. There's really nothing new under the sun in interpersonal relations. It's been written about, sung and filmed. Check out the "Crying Game" or listen to some classic Kinks.

But none of that answers the question you supposedly tried to address. What rights have you lost because those same right were finally expanded to include others, as they should have all along? 

Voice any opinion you like. I won't bully you into not expressing what you feel or think. I might voice my opinion on how ill thought out or ridiculous those thoughts are and I won't be bullied by your passive agressive( in my opinion) tactics to bully me.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

MO_cows said:


> She might have the right, but if she had any wisdom or judgement, she wouldn't exercise it.
> 
> The barber built his business catering to male clientele. This lady decides she wants a fad haircut, which she may well only get the one time and change styles after that, yet she is perfectly willing to risk the barber losing his steady clientele in order for her to have it. His bread and butter is repeat clients who like the atmosphere he created, some of whom might not come back if they are in there at the same time as Ms. I Have Rights and think the place is going to the "hens".
> 
> She is the equivalent of the young punk ******* boys who were in the news awhile back because they liked to stroll in to family restaurants carrying all kinds of intimidating firepower, just because "they had the right".


You're free to judge this woman's motives without knowing her or hearing her side of the story. I can't disprove your rationale but neither can you prove it. She could just as easily have been trying to simply have a nice day with her boyfriend where they shared the experience of high end haircuts. The owner may not have been as pleasant as he described himself thus ruining that experience. The owner may have been the one to see an opportunity to garner some free publicity and approached the press to tell his own story and attract more business. Lots of maybes from both of us. Only one fact. It was a discriminatory act.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

where I want to said:


> Of course it's discriminatory. It used to be good to be discriminating. The word has be hijacked into meaning something bad.
> 
> The world is now made for the carpers of the world. There is no pettiness too small that it can not find someone to make a big deal out of it to the detriment of all.
> 
> So now there will be unisex barbershops with unisex bathrooms full of people dressed in unisex clothing, making unisex mistakes and telling unisex jokes if they can find a topic not offending someone there.


Yup, & no one will be able to say: "he or she" anymore. Hurtful, ya know.

I fear the days of celebrating the difference of the sexes is long gone.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Trixie said:


> I know what you mean, but wonder why you called it 'naughty bits'?


 It makes me curious as I have heard it before, just what is so naughty about those bits?


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> It makes me curious as I have heard it before, just what is so naughty about those bits?


For some naughty is perjorative. If youre doing it right naughty can be a lot of fun. Of course, that's just my opinion.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Tricky Grama said:


> Yup, & no one will be able to say: "he or she" anymore. Hurtful, ya know.
> 
> I fear the days of celebrating the difference of the sexes is long gone.


I thinks it's a good thing we get to celebrate even more differences. Share the fun. How does it diminish you sharing what you wish if others get to share what they want? There's plenty of cake to go around.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

painterswife said:


> LEFT, LEFT, LEFT. I don't think you can post without blaming something on the left. Labeling is your go to post.


I know you don't like the "left" & "Right" terms. Just wanted to say that its not the conservatives HERE on HT who've dreamed these up. They are acceptable terms, used in the media. 

IIRC, this was a point of yours when you started the thread a while back about trying to get along. You didn't want those terms used? I don't mind if you correct me on this, that is the way I remember it & I could be wrong. 

But the terms are used mostly instead of Democrat & Republican. Usually more adceptable than D & R b/c many do not like to be identified as D or R b/c they feel they are more conservative than R, for instance.

Same way w/liberal & conservative. Seems some here have a problem being called 'liberal'. Then don't be one. 
Mostly its why I say conservative & non-conservative.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

And so is MSN ( Mass Media Networks ) which is ALL of the left leaning progressive liberal media outlets on TV and Radio.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> I know you don't like the "left" & "Right" terms. Just wanted to say that its not the conservatives HERE on HT who've dreamed these up. They are acceptable terms, used in the media.
> 
> IIRC, this was a point of yours when you started the thread a while back about trying to get along. You didn't want those terms used? I don't mind if you correct me on this, that is the way I remember it & I could be wrong.
> 
> ...


What I don't like is the need to tar everyone that may have different politics with the same brush in a negative manner. Start treating people as individuals because we don't automatically take a stance on every single situation the same way. Just as not all republicans are pro lifers.

Stop labelling and blaming in on someone else because they started it.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Well when a person is wrong they ARE wrong and WILL be called on it. Simple as that. tit for tat.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Think about your response... did you just prove the point in your reply?
> 
> Something to think about.


I made my point, how about you think about that.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> Think about your response... did you just prove the point in your reply?
> 
> Something to think about.


Doesn't she have the right to express her opinion without someone trying to bully her into silence?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

mmoetc said:


> Doesn't she have the right to express her opinion without someone trying to bully her into silence?


Don't worry about it. She made her point by liking that picture that again labels and stereotypes groups.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Still, the question, that you do not have to answer personally, others are free to validate or not.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

painterswife said:


> I made my point, how about you think about that.


My response should clearly show that I thought about your reply.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

painterswife said:


> What I don't like is the need to tar everyone that may have different politics with the same brush in a negative manner. Start treating people as individuals because we don't automatically take a stance on every single situation the same way. Just as not all republicans are pro lifers.
> 
> Stop labelling and blaming in on someone else because they started it.


TO TREAT EVERYONE AS AN INDIVIDUAL ON THIS FORUM DOES LEAN TOWARDS MAKING MAKING COMMENTS WHICH WOULD BE PERSON .... WHICH COULD BE INTERPRETED ( just or or not) as a personal attack..

I hope that that you (the collective you) see that possibility.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> TO TREAT EVERYONE AS AN INDIVIDUAL ON THIS FORUM DOES LEAN TOWARDS MAKING MAKING COMMENTS WHICH WOULD BE PERSON .... WHICH COULD BE INTERPRETED ( just or or not) as a personal attack..
> 
> I hope that that you (the collective you) see that possibility.


This is one of those posts that I just don't understand. Maybe you would like to help me out by explaining what you mean.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> TO TREAT EVERYONE AS AN INDIVIDUAL ON THIS FORUM DOES LEAN TOWARDS MAKING MAKING COMMENTS WHICH WOULD BE PERSON .... WHICH COULD BE INTERPRETED ( just or or not) as a personal attack..
> 
> I hope that that you (the collective you) see that possibility.


If some cannot see that criticizing their ideas and opinions is different than criticizing them for holding such ideas and opinions it is not the fault of those doing the criticizing. Defend your thoughts. Defend your opinions. Don't be defensive.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

mmoetc said:


> If some cannot see that criticizing their ideas and opinions is different than criticizing them for holding such ideas and opinions it is not the fault of those doing the criticizing. Defend your thoughts. Defend your opinions. Don't be defensive.


Is she saying that I am making a personal attack because I criticized the picture he posted?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Is she saying that I am making a personal attack because I criticized the picture he posted?


It could be taken that way, I just thought your comment to be a bit snippy, not really a personal attack. I also thought the picture was somewhat amusing.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> It could be taken that way, I just thought your comment to be a bit snippy, not really a personal attack. I also thought the picture was somewhat amusing.


I can agree with snippy. I am very tired of the bashing of left and right as a way to put down other HT members because they disagree with their politics. AK posts that kind of stuff all the time. It is done with purpose to belittle and put down other members in my opinion. It is very asinine.

I am attacking his posts. I have no clue what he is like as a person. I would appreciate if he would stop attacking Liberal HT members by posting this crap.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> I can agree with snippy. I am very tired of the bashing of left and right as a way to put down other HT members because they disagree with their politics. AK posts that kind of stuff all the time. It is done with purpose to belittle and put down other members in my opinion. It is very asinine.
> 
> I am attacking his posts. I have no clue what he is like as a person. I would appreciate if he would stop attacking Liberal HT members by posting this crap that he is perfectly aware are liberal.


A lot of folks take their politics and religion way too seriously, probably the reason most know better than to discuss either of them in a pub. There is something to be said for the anonymity of the Internet..... It's much easier to be bold from a safe distance.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

No, I did not find you personally attracted me I was replying to your post with an explanation as to why some may make collective statements about a groups with out pointing to an individual .


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I doubt that, there seems to be a more than ample supply as of late.


Yes, I can see that.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

arabian knight said:


> Well when a person is wrong they ARE wrong and WILL be called on it. Simple as that. *tit for tat*.


I'm not showing you any tats, and you stole that phrase from Kasilofhome


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Are you man enough to make a public apology when SHE DOES come out and make her media splash in the next week?
> 
> Not discrimination.
> Not illegal.
> Nope. Not one bit.


Well, the next week is all but over and no media splash and no lawsuit have been forthcoming. I'll keep checking and in the unlikely event I'm proven wrong I'll stand up and admit it. Can you?


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

And I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what rights they've lost because others have gained their rightful ones.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

painterswife said:


> What I don't like is the need to tar everyone that may have different politics with the same brush in a negative manner. Start treating people as individuals because we don't automatically take a stance on every single situation the same way. Just as not all republicans are pro lifers.
> 
> Stop labelling and blaming in on someone else because they started it.


So do you think its ok for some to state the stupidity of conservatives? Why is that not the same?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> So do you think its ok for some to state the stupidity of conservatives? Why is that not the same?


Did you read my post? Did I say it was all right?


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Did you read my post? Did I say it was all right?


Its just that I never see you jumping on posters who say rude/mean/insulting things about those on the right.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> Its just that I never see you jumping on posters who say rude/mean/insulting things about those on the right.


Did you read my post here. I said I want it to stop on both sides. Does that mean you want it to stop on both sides?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Did you read my post here. I said I want it to stop on both sides. Does that mean you want it to stop on both sides?


I don't have a side, but there is no need for anyone to be taking cheap shots as far as I am concerned.:buds:


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I don't have a side, but there is no need for anyone to be taking cheap shots as far as I am concerned.:buds:


I have no problem with anyone taking shots at my opinion. When they have to call all people of a certain poltical leaning, names and assign them all the same opinions, I do have a problem.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> I have no problem with anyone taking shots at my opinion. When they have to call all people of a certain poltical leaning, names and assign them all the same opinions, I do have a problem.


Yeppers, taking those kind of shots are really unnecessary. Not only that they tend to undermine the posters own credibility which makes whatever point they are trying to make weaker.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Are you man enough to make a public apology when SHE DOES come out and make her media splash in the next week?
> 
> Not discrimination.
> Not illegal.
> Nope. Not one bit.


Almost two weeks now. Still no law suit. Still no media splash. Still no evidence this young woman is anything you accused her of. When will you "man up"?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Tell you what: YOU ARE RIGHT...........she didn't make a scene (or there was something wrong w/ her that the media would not publish her scene)

Now you can lean back in your chair in front of your computer, and beat your chest like tarzan and fill yourself with yourself.
Go ahead......look in the mirror that is located close to the computer; talk to it like you do; tell it how smart and wonderful you are, how you are superior on the internet, and how inferior everyone else is.....go ahead, pucker up your lips and kiss yourself........you are such a smart boy!!!!


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Tell you what: YOU ARE RIGHT...........she didn't make a scene (or there was something wrong w/ her that the media would not publish her scene)
> 
> Now you can lean back in your chair in front of your computer, and beat your chest like tarzan and fill yourself with yourself.
> Go ahead......look in the mirror that is located close to the computer; talk to it like you do; tell it how smart and wonderful you are, how you are superior on the internet, and how inferior everyone else is.....go ahead, pucker up your lips and kiss yourself........you are such a smart boy!!!!


You asked if I'd be man enough to admit if I were wrong. I could still be proven so and will make a statement, without qualification, that I am. I've done it before. It may happen again. There's no shame in being wrong. No one's perfect.

There is shame in challenging and holding others to standards one isn't willing to uphold themself. Challenge me to be man enough and expect to be held to the same. Call me what you will. I'm man enough to take it.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

painterswife said:


> It was the 70's and that radical haircut for a girl was very enticing to the boys that saw mostly long hair.



Um NO !
I was there (the70s) and it wasn't that way most guys have always enjoyed long hair. 

But most schools have that girl with the short hair. She attracted some guys because of her rebel attitude and some because she was fun. 

Another thing to keep in mind is that if 1% of the guys in a school of 5000 find it attractive and there are ten girls with the short haircut that's five guys per girl double or triple that for the guys that are attracted to her fun and rebel ways and you have her "flocks"


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> Um NO !
> I was there (the70s) and it wasn't that way most guys have always enjoyed long hair.
> 
> But most schools have that girl with the short hair. She attracted some guys because of her rebel attitude and some because she was fun.
> ...


You think short hair and a fade are the same thing? I had short hair at the time. Not the same thing at all.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> You think short hair and a fade are the same thing? I had short hair at the time. Not the same thing at all.


Hair is never what attracted me to a woman.
A pretty smile, honest eyes, nice laugh, built like a woman, that's what got my attention.
As long as her hair was clean, the style never really mattered.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> Hair is never what attracted me to a woman.
> A pretty smile, honest eyes, nice laugh, built like a woman, that's what got my attention.
> As long as her hair was clean, the style never really mattered.


I don't think it was the hair. I think it was the willingness to go against the trends. Be different. Back then it was very different.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I don't think it was the hair. I think it was the willingness to go against the trends. Be different. Back then it was very different.


I remember the 70s
We all tried to be different, just like everybody else.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I was a rebel... I really said no to drugs...what a rebel... Not


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## tamarackreg (Mar 13, 2006)

Sounds like the $9.95 "Tuesday is Mens Day" haircuts I get at a salon on the way home from work might soon be a thing of the past......


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I've always preferred long hair on a woman. Don't care much for those short haired looks at all.


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