# Is Ray Rice Guilty of Domestic Violence?



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I'm having trouble understanding how this is domestic violence. Please enlighten me.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

MoonRiver said:


> I'm having trouble understanding how this is domestic violence. Please enlighten me.


How would it not be ? :hair Please enlighten me. :hobbyhors


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

I can't say without knowing WHY he hit her. I've never hit a woman in my life but I have seen women behave in such a way they really deserved to be smacked by someone. I haven't seen one news show about this that mentioned women also assault men quite frequently. Men can be jerks but women can too. Why should a man tolerate something from a woman that he wouldn't tolerate from a man? Either the sexes are equal or they aren't.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Too bad the video of him dragging his unconscious wife out of the elevator was not available on this site:
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/women...e-video-sheds-light-domestic-violence-n200266

Yes, knocking her unconscious was domestic violence. Hitting her in anger was domestic violence.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

poppy said:


> I can't say without knowing WHY he hit her. I've never hit a woman in my life but I have seen women behave in such a way they really deserved to be smacked by someone. I haven't seen one news show about this that mentioned women also assault men quite frequently. Men can be jerks but women can too. Why should a man tolerate something from a woman that he wouldn't tolerate from a man? Either the sexes are equal or they aren't.



Because I feel I deserve equal pay for equal work does not mean I feel I deserve to be knocked unconscious by someone who claims to love me enough to want to marry me.


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

I don't know.
It looks to me like mutual combat.
Normally I would say a man should not hit a woman.
However some women are an equal match.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Video is on this site:
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/0...hen-fiancee-in-new-video-from-tmz-106886.html
He hits her in the face just after the elevator door closes then backs away. She moves toward him and he hits her in the face again, this time knocks her out. She is still holding something (purse?) in her right hand. If she had moved to hit him she would have dropped the object in her hand.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

MJsLady said:


> I don't know.
> It looks to me like mutual combat.
> Normally I would say a man should not hit a woman.
> However some women are an equal match.


In this country most times the winner of a fight is charged with DV :hobbyhors He didn't grab her and start whispering sweet nothings in her ear to calm her down .:nono::nono: He cold cocked her :huh:


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

One of, if not the worst, woopins I ever took was from a GIRL. Sixth grade, she was bent out of shape because my kickball team was well.... Kick... 

Old Man Butterworth seen Rachael a floggin' on me, I in defensive mode. He grabbed her off, thank goodness, before it ruined my good looks. I sailed through that year, and many there after. 

I knew the right thing to do, even in the sixth grade.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

> Either the sexes are equal or they aren't.


If he hit a man the way he hit her, it would be an assault/battery just the same...just wouldn't be "domestic violence." That little distinction is questionable. I don't think it should matter if you're in a relationship with the victim or not. That doesn't make it any worse or better.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Danaus29 said:


> Video is on this site:
> http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/0...hen-fiancee-in-new-video-from-tmz-106886.html
> He hits her in the face just after the elevator door closes then backs away. She moves toward him and he hits her in the face again, this time knocks her out. She is still holding something (purse?) in her right hand. If she had moved to hit him she would have dropped the object in her hand.


But we still don't know why he hit her. What did she do before they got on the elevator? I've seen no reports of him hitting former girlfriends. Why did she marry him the next day?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

jtbrandt said:


> If he hit a man the way he hit her, it would be an assault/battery just the same...just wouldn't be "domestic violence." That little distinction is questionable. I don't think it should matter if you're in a relationship with the victim or not. That doesn't make it any worse or better.


Good point. Why the domestic violence label in the first place? If you hit someone, you should be charged with assault and go to trial to try and prove you had a valid reason like self defense. If I go into a bar and am a jerk, there is a high probability someone will put me in my place. Why should the same not apply to a couple in a relationship?


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

I think the reason that the O.P. questions whether it "qualifies"
as domestic violence-vs-assault, is that neither party were 
married to the other at the time of the alleged attack.

It should be noted, that *MOST* states however, cover this
little problem, if there is a living together situation present.....
in which case, it generally falls under the domestic violence statute.

Since I don't keep track of most sports figures and certainly don't
pay attention to how they keep house, I didn't feel qualified to 
partake in this poll. Granted I could have voted: I don't know,
but that didn't quite fit the category of: I don't care.

If she's stupid enough to marry him *AFTER *what he did to her.....
then they certainly deserve each other. Why inflict that misery on the rest of us?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

poppy said:


> But we still don't know why he hit her. What did she do before they got on the elevator?


Does it really matter what she did before they got on the elevator? Is there any reason ever to hit a person you supposedly love? If she did something so horribly vile that she deserved to be punched in the face, why did HE go through with the wedding? 

Why did she? He's got money, well, he had money. Some people don't care about anything else.

As for no other reports of domestic violence by his former girlfriends, maybe they were smarter and got out of the relationship.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

poppy said:


> But we still don't know why he hit her. What did she do before they got on the elevator? I've seen no reports of him hitting former girlfriends. Why did she marry him the next day?



What do you feel justifies knocking a woman out cold?


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

poppy said:


> But we still don't know why he hit her. What did she do before they got on the elevator? I've seen no reports of him hitting former girlfriends. Why did she marry him the next day?


 Why does it matter? No one should do what he did. Period. Knock her out? How can a person even think he maybe in the right to do what he did.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

poppy said:


> If I go into a bar and am a jerk, there is a high probability someone will put me in my place. Why should the same not apply to a couple in a relationship?


Depends on what you mean by being a jerk. My idea of someone being a jerk might make me WANT to punch them, but it wouldn't make it legally justified for me to ACTUALLY punch them, nor socially acceptable in most circumstances. If they are doing more than being a jerk and actually presenting a threat to me or someone else, that's another story.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

wr said:


> What do you feel justifies knocking a woman out cold?


Or knocking a man out cold?


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## hawgsquatch (May 11, 2014)

In my state DV means there was a sexual relationship at some point or that the people involved have children in common. It is a misdemeanor if there is no visible injury and a felony with any visible injury. This was definitely a felony case from what I saw.

Just getting arrested for DV in my state means you will never own a firearm again and will be ineligible for state licenses in childcare, law enforcement, and nursing I believe.

DV laws can be some of the hardest to enforce because often with no injury visible it is a "he said she said" scenario. Because of this some people have learned that when they can no longer deal with a partner a quick phone call and a false accusation will lead to an immediate mandatory arrest. Officers no longer have discretion and must arrest on any complaint.

What I saw on the video was felony assault with intent to cause great bodily injury, Felony DV with injury, felony kidnapping with the intent to cause further bodily injury, And failure to report a crime. 

This guy should not have done what he did, period. However, we live in a society that allows personal liberty. She forgave him and she accepted his amends whatever they were. He was dealt with criminally and from what we know he is abiding by the terms of the courts decisions.

For the NFL to suddenly change the penalty after the tape surfaced made it look like they were playing catch up. Why don't players who commit felonies get ejected from the sport forever. Their names should never be mentioned again in any context. They should disappear and their million dollar hissy fits might get curtailed just a bit.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Here's why I asked (in random order):


I hate special victim laws. Either it is a crime to hit someone or it isn't.
If this was 2 guys out drinking together, it would not be DV
It was adjudicated and he was not charged with DV
Is there ever a case when a man is justified in hitting a woman? (I think yes, but only in self defense or extreme provocation)
We don't know what her part was
I did watch the video and couldn't see clearly who had done what
I thought domestic violence was a *pattern* of violence
The last point is the key point that bothers me. (I think some states have changed the definition so it is dv at the 1st occurrence). If this is the first and only time he has hit her, I question whether it meets the definition of domestic violence. 

I think, although I'm not sure, that the idea behind domestic violence is that the woman is in a permanent relationship, usually marriage, in which she feels trapped and unable to leave the relationship even under the threat of violence. That doesn't appear to be the case here. There was nothing forcing Janay to remain in this relationship - not marriage, not children, etc.



> Rice's wife, a source said, made a moving and apparently convincing case to Goodell ... that the incident in the hotel elevator was a one-time event, and nothing physical had happened in their relationship before or since. more


I definitely think it is criminal and the law dropped the ball, but I'm still not convinced this is domestic violence. I think calling it dv is most likely agenda driven and is actually being used to generate an attack on football. 

Who gains by defining this as domestic violence as opposed to aggravated assault, which is what the charge was? Does Janay? Does society as a whole? Do women in general? Or maybe a group like NOW?


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Moon, what do you define as extreme provocation? I can't come up with any provocation that would justify a man punching a woman in the face. And for it to be self defense, she must present a real danger, like she's a judo champ, much larger than him, she has a weapon, etc. 

But I am with you on special victim laws. Battery is battery and it should not make a difference if you are different races or if you have sex with the person.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I heard she spit at him.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

DEKE01 said:


> Moon, what do you define as extreme provocation? I can't come up with any provocation that would justify a man punching a woman in the face. And for it to be self defense, she must present a real danger, like she's a judo champ, much larger than him, she has a weapon, etc.


I believe if someone hits someone else, they shouldn't expect the other person not to hit them back.

That does not mean that I think men should hit women, but that violence begets violence. A women should not hit a man and then think the man won't hit her in return. A woman has no more right to hit a man, than a man does a woman.

I believe in equality!



> fighting words n. words intentionally directed toward another person which are so nasty and full of malice as to cause the hearer to suffer emotional distress or incite him/her to immediately retaliate physically (hit, stab, shoot, etc.) While such words are not an excuse or defense for a retaliatory assault and battery, if they are threatening they can form the basis for a lawsuit for assault. source


If a man does this to a woman, it is called domestic violence. What is it called if a woman does it to a man?

While provocation doesn't give someone the legal right to hit the other person, it may explain why it took place. If a woman intentionally incites a man to immediately retaliate physically, she shouldn't be surprised if it happens.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

He shouldn't have gotten so mad but she cursed at him and spit on him multiple times. And he didn't punch her. He slapped the snot out of her and she feel hitting her head on the railing. That's what knocked her out. Oh and she was drunk as well. But so was he just not as drunk as her. Men should never hit a woman even when they deserve it many times over. We all know a few of them.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I had to vote "I dont know"... I have yet to see any video that is very clear what actually happened. From what I have seen she charged towards him and fell to the floor, he then tried to get her up and out of the elevator. I do not know if he even hit her, have no idea how much she or he had to drink, if anything. I do know that a person who is drunk can go out pretty easily, often all by themselves without anyone hitting them at all. Some of ya'll must be watching different videos than I am if you see him hit her, once or twice? Or her spitting on him. :shrug:


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Domestic Violence is not gender specific. It only describes relationship violence. It is an offence in it's own because violence in the family was often swept under the rug by other family members and law enforcement.

"In 1910, the U. S. Supreme Court ruled that a wife had no cause for action on an assault and battery charge against her husband because it "would open the doors of the courts to accusations of all sorts of one spouse against the other and bring into public notice complaints for assault, slander and libel."

As recently as 1977, the California Penal Code stated that wives charging husbands with criminal assault and battery must suffer more injuries than commonly needed for charges of battery.

Today, women have the ability to obtain protection orders through the court. However, in almost half of our states, the police are not empowered to enforce these orders, nor is there any penalty for the men who violate them.

In Vermont, violation of a protection order became a crime with the passage of a law to that effect in 1990. Police officers are authorized to enforce orders, and the law outlines penalties for violations."

http://www.womensafe.net/home/index...torical-laws-that-supported-domestic-violence


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## Trainwrek (Aug 23, 2014)

I don't believe in hitting ANYONE unless you have to defend yourself or a loved one. Whether a man or a woman, I don't get physical unless they do first or if I think I am in danger of imminent attack. 

Then I hit really hard, repeatedly.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

poppy said:


> I can't say without knowing WHY he hit her. I've never hit a woman in my life but I have seen women behave in such a way they really deserved to be smacked by someone. I haven't seen one news show about this that mentioned women also assault men quite frequently. Men can be jerks but women can too. Why should a man tolerate something from a woman that he wouldn't tolerate from a man? Either the sexes are equal or they aren't.


I have trouble with a thought that men are PHYSICALLY equal to women. Not to mention a nfl player.
I have trouble w/anyone thinking it is ok for a physically overpowering male striking a smaller human, let alone female.
I would condone a male hitting a female if the odds were made even...as in the weaker having a weapon & using it.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

poppy said:


> But we still don't know why he hit her. What did she do before they got on the elevator? I've seen no reports of him hitting former girlfriends. Why did she marry him the next day?


There's no evidence she was holding a gun or knife on him...we can see the images...IF she had a weapon, she did not have it when she was hit. Why does it matter if he hit women b4? He's doing it NOW.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

7thswan said:


> I heard she spit at him.


Then he shoulda spit back.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Tricky Grama said:


> There's no evidence she was holding a gun or knife on him...we can see the images...IF she had a weapon, she did not have it when she was hit. Why does it matter if he hit women b4? He's doing it NOW.


But one of my questions is "Is it domestic violence if there is no pattern of abuse or is it just assault"?

And he's not "doing" it now. He did it once.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Tricky Grama said:


> Then he shoulda spit back.


Where is that rule written? To me it seems unreasonable to think the other person will respond with the same level of force. If someone starts a fight, it seems to me the obvious thing to do is with respond with greater force, run away, or try to diffuse the situation. Equal retaliation is just going to prolong the situation making it harder for either side to back down.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

The progressive group Ultraviolet had banners flown over 3 football stadiums on Sunday saying #GoodellMustGo. They plan to do the same for the NFL Monday night game. 

Who is ultraviolet?


Nita Chaudhary (Co-founder) - former National Campaigns and Organizing Director at *MoveOn.org* Political Action.
Shaunna Thomas (Co-founder) - former Executive Director of the P Street Project, a 501c4 nonprofit dedicated to *organizing progressive members of Congress*.
Kat Barr (Chief of Staff) - former Campaign Director at *MoveOn.org*.
So this is confirming my suspicion that this is about politics and the Nov elections, not concern for Janay. This is the Democrat's War on Women strategy being played out 7 weeks before the November elections by progressive organizations like NOW and Ultraviolet. And the media has swallowed it whole.

And here's the kicker. Roger Goodell's father was a Republican Congressman and Senator from NY. That will be how they tie this back to the Republican Party.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Tricky Grama said:


> Then he shoulda spit back.


 Ya for sure. That is what happens in the movies. Somebody spits on you and you spit back. No big deal. But that does not give him the right to throw a punch hard enough to knock to her cold, or even hit her AT ALL~! I really can't believe what some have said on here. Is this back to the middle ages? Or back in Cave Man days?


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Again he didn't punch her he slapped her. Being drunk she fell and hit her head on the railing. That knocked her out. Not saying it's right but he didn't punch her.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> But one of my questions is "Is it domestic violence if there is no pattern of abuse or is it just assault"?
> 
> And he's not "doing" it now. He did it once.


I think it is fairly standard that assault is the threat of violent physical force, battery is the use of that force. 

Arguing whether it is domestic violence or just plain battery is like arguing if it was a punch or a slap that was forceful enough to knock her down and out. It just doesn't matter. It was wrong. It was illegal. If the woman had been a man, it would still be wrong and illegal.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

DEKE01 said:


> I think it is fairly standard that assault is the threat of violent physical force, battery is the use of that force.
> 
> Arguing whether it is domestic violence or just plain battery is like arguing if it was a punch or a slap that was forceful enough to knock her down and out. It just doesn't matter. It was wrong. It was illegal. If the woman had been a man, it would still be wrong and illegal.


It makes a lot of difference. Domestic violence usually carries more severe penalties and consequences.

I used assault because that is the crime he was charged with (aggravated assault).


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I don't like when people imply she's a bad person for marrying someone who was abusive to her, or that she was just doing it out of greed. The things she said in her statement scream "battered woman syndrome" to me. People with battered woman syndrome were usually abused as children and take abuse as a matter of course. They've been treated like crap all of their lives and they just assume that's how relationships go. They're attracted to abusive people because that's the type of people they're more comfortable around due to being raised around abusers since birth.

I'm not saying every woman who lets a man beat her comes from abusive parents but it's extremely common. She can't help her mindset. She's clearly got some major emotional problems if she's willing to stay with him, regardless of how much money he makes.

He's a very big, strong, muscular football player and he punched her in the face. I don't care what she did to him - he went WAY over the top.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Ok, several posters here keep insisting that he "punched her in the face" or other similar statements. Does anyone have a link that shows this "punch"? I have yet to see one that shows his fist hitting her face. All I have seen is his arm coming up, and her falling to the floor. Dont get me wrong here, I aint saying it didnt happen.... its just that I have not seen that particular piece of video and I think it makes a tremendous difference. If he was merely blocking her spitting.. (which I havent seen either) or protecting his face or something of a defensive nature... thats an entirely different thing... IF he punched her as so many say... then that of course is something else altogether. Sooooo, anyone got a link that actually shows what happened? just to satisfy my own mind here?


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I saw the video on TV.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Google it. Whether a slap or a punch it was hard enough to knock her flat. Really does not matter how his hand was when he hit her.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> It makes a lot of difference. Domestic violence usually carries more severe penalties and consequences.
> 
> I used assault because that is the crime he was charged with (aggravated assault).


If he was still facing criminal charges, it might make a difference. But that is over and done. He got a slap on the wrist. The DA didn't do his job very well, probably because he was a bit star struck. Which is exactly why so many of these top level athletes think they can get away with so much.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Ok, several posters here keep insisting that he "punched her in the face" or other similar statements. Does anyone have a link that shows this "punch"? I have yet to see one that shows his fist hitting her face. All I have seen is his arm coming up, and her falling to the floor. Dont get me wrong here, I aint saying it didnt happen.... its just that I have not seen that particular piece of video and I think it makes a tremendous difference. If he was merely blocking her spitting.. (which I havent seen either) or protecting his face or something of a defensive nature... thats an entirely different thing... IF he punched her as so many say... then that of course is something else altogether. Sooooo, anyone got a link that actually shows what happened? just to satisfy my own mind here?


He reportedly told Goodell that he did indeed hit her... and of course promised to never do it again. :nono:


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

ok, I have googled, and it was even posted here a minute ago, and I watched it at least 20 more times.... I cant seem to find one frame of his hand striking her? :shrug: The best I can find is her charging towards him, his arm moves up and she does her dive to the floor hitting her head on the way down. If I were on a jury, I would have to vote "insufficient evidence". :shrug: 

and thanks to whoever posted it for me, for whatever reason its gone again now.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Again he didn't punch her he slapped her. Being drunk she fell and hit her head on the railing. That knocked her out. Not saying it's right but he didn't punch her.


It is my understanding they were both intoxicated, not just her.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

DEKE01 said:


> He reportedly told Goodell that he did indeed hit her... and of course promised to never do it again. :nono:


Ok, if he did indeed tell someone he hit her... thats different, but based soley on the video.... I couldnt say one way or the other.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wr said:


> It is my understanding they were both intoxicated, not just her.


being drunk is rarely an excuse.... but it does sometimes explain a lot.


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## Nate_in_IN (Apr 5, 2013)

Seeing as how I'm only 1 of 2 that voted 'NO' I would like a chance to explain my reasoning.

Mr. Rice was charged with Aggravated Assault and Domestic Abuse for the incident. A Grand Jury indicted him but * the charges were dropped*. He was never given a trial, he was never found guilty so I cannot say he is. The videos I have seen certainly show a despicable act which I would hope would be more than enough evidence to convict a person of those charges, but a New Jersey prosecutor saw things differently. I can only assume the prosecutor was aware of more information than I am to come to this conclusion.

For everyone who is being so very critical of the NFL please be causeful what you ask for. Why are we demanding more of an employer than we are of our justice system? Aggravated Assault and Domestic Abuse is a criminal matter. For a long time we have believed in due process where a defendant is afforded many rights and the burden is on the prosecution to make the case in order to deprive someone of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These fail-safes are built into the legal system. Having public pressure placed upon an employer as a means of punishing someone we feel is guilty of a crime is not the proper method to establish.

What I see in the videos certainly incites anger and emotion. However if I want to know why Mr. Rice wasn't punished earlier (aside from the 2 game suspension) I would ask the prosecutor why the case was dropped when this video evidence existed and the charges carried a 2-5 year jail sentence.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

DEKE01 said:


> If he was still facing criminal charges, it might make a difference. But that is over and done. He got a slap on the wrist. The DA didn't do his job very well, probably because he was a bit star struck. Which is exactly why so many of these top level athletes think they can get away with so much.


According to the prosecutor, it was either probation or the diversion program.



> Atlantic County Prosecutor Jim McClain has defended Rice's entry into the diversion program and told The Press of Atlantic City that Rice likely wouldn't have faced jail time if he had gone to trial on third-degree aggravated assault charges.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/prosecutor-defends-ray-rice-investigation-132247708--nfl.html


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Nate, I'm totally with you as far as the role of the employer, the NFL and Ravens. As an employer, I can't be expected to investigate and "prosecute" every employee that gets accused of a crime having nothing to do with work. I generally have to wait until a trial verdict and then react accordingly. Especially when the crime is not relevant to my business, I really need to stay out of it. If the employee is a check writing accountant and is accused of theft, that's different. 

AFA the court case, I just went and read a bit which says you are mostly right. I thought he had been convicted but that's wrong. The charges weren't exactly dropped, but he was accepted into a pretrial intervention program and given a year probation. If he stays clean, the charges will be dropped. Had the DA and Judge done a proper job and not accepted the pretrial intervention deal, Rice would have been convicted. Then the NFL would have grounds for a violation of the moral turpitude clause of the contract and suspended him without fear of union action or a lawsuit.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> According to the prosecutor, it was either probation or the diversion program.
> 
> http://sports.yahoo.com/news/prosecutor-defends-ray-rice-investigation-132247708--nfl.html


Yep, I think I just read the same article. Regardless, the domestic violence vs battery charge debate is moot.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

My understanding from one news show I watched about it is that charges were dropped because she did not want to prosecute. So it really disappoints me that so m any people are making her out to be a bad person. In the video I saw it looked like he punched her. How else could she have hit her head so hard that she was knocked out? A young healthy person does not get knocked out just from the force of a fall. And if it was just from a fall he would have acted at least a tad bit concerned instead of angrily dragging her limp body out of the elevator without even checking to see if the woman carrying his baby was breathing.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbwTMJroTbI[/ame]

Watch this - he clearly punches her HARD in the face. Her head goes flying back so hard that her hair flies up in front of her face.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

fffarmergirl said:


> My understanding from one news show I watched about it is that charges were dropped because she did not want to prosecute. So it really disappoints me that so m any people are making her out to be a bad person. In the video I saw it looked like he punched her. *How else could she have hit her head so hard that she was knocked out?* A young healthy person does not get knocked out just from the force of a fall. And if it was just from a fall he would have acted at least a tad bit concerned instead of angrily dragging her limp body out of the elevator without even checking to see if the woman carrying his baby was breathing.


The amount of alcohol consumed prior to the "fall" will have direct affects on how much it takes to knock one out. It is my understanding that she had had more than enough to drink.... particularly carrying a baby... that it wouldnt take much to push her over the edge of unconsciousness. Just falling against the side of the elevator might have been more than sufficient blow to put her lights out for a while.

As to the hair flying into her face, I have seen that lots of times. It doesnt take much for a girl to turn her head and flip hair everywhere. Again, since he may have told someone that he hit her... that would change things quite a bit.... but the video itself is quite unclear as to what actually transpired. Did you happen to notice at about the nine or ten second mark in the video where she slapped him? this was out in the hallway prior to them getting in the elevator. Based solely on the video it would appear that he may have just brought a hand up in order to block another slap, she may have "thought" he was going to hit her, turned away quickly, lost her balance due to the alcohol and fell, striking her head. I wasnt there, so really dont know. I didnt hear him tell anyone he struck her either, that part "has been reported". For whatever reason she went ahead and married the guy either way.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

She was walking pretty well before she got on the elevator.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

fffarmergirl said:


> She was walking pretty well before she got on the elevator.


Well enough to slap him before they got on the elevator.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> The amount of alcohol consumed prior to the "fall" will have direct affects on how much it takes to knock one out. It is my understanding that she had had more than enough to drink.... particularly carrying a baby... that it wouldnt take much to push her over the edge of unconsciousness. Just falling against the side of the elevator might have been more than sufficient blow to put her lights out for a while.


I'm really shocked by your attitude. In fact if I've had to edit my comments lest my post get deleted by the mods. It is sickening. 

Let's say she was falling down stupid drunk, drunk enough to give her child fetal alcohol syndrome. What on earth does that have to do with the fact that Ray Rice struck her? All the blame and guilt is on his shoulders and his alone. Nothing else matters, not that she might have spit on him, not that some think she was stupid to marry him later, not that she may have been drunk. He committed a crime and should have received a greater punishment from the law. If he had been sent to jail for a year, the NFL actions or non actions would be moot.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

He may have got greater punishment if domestic violence didn't have so many protections built in. If the abused woman doesn't have the courage to press charges, or if she has forgiven the man and loves him and doesn't want him punished, he's not going to get punished.

Did you read or hear her statement? She's accusing the press of ruining the life of the man she loves. She defends him and puts herself as much to blame as him by accusing the press of ruining _their_ lives not just his. She forgave him even before he hit her.

And yes - she did slap him. We don't know why she slapped him - but that doesn't justify him cold cocking her.

And YES - she did marry him. That absolutely does not mean he's not abusive. Women marry abusive men all the time. We all know that. Women marry men who have tried to kill them. They think they can't do any better. They think they deserve it. It comes from being verbally and emotionally abused for many years by other people prior to meeting an abusive man. If you've never been abused and don't understand that, well - congratulations on being born into a nice family.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

DEKE01 said:


> I'm really shocked by your attitude. In fact if I've had to edit my comments lest my post get deleted by the mods. It is sickening.
> 
> Let's say she was falling down stupid drunk, drunk enough to give her child fetal alcohol syndrome. What on earth does that have to do with the fact that Ray Rice struck her? All the blame and guilt is on his shoulders and his alone. Nothing else matters, not that she might have spit on him, not that some think she was stupid to marry him later, not that she may have been drunk. He committed a crime and should have received a greater punishment from the law. If he had been sent to jail for a year, the NFL actions or non actions would be moot.


I dont have an "attitude" one way or the other on this one because I havent yet seen anything to indicate he actually struck the woman. He "might have" isnt enough for me to make a judgement call either way. I havent seen his hand strike her and I havent heard his "confession". :shrug: It is obvious the woman hit the floor, its obvious that they were both in the elevator, but the video somehow leaves out the "crushing blow". All I have seen is his arm coming up, havent seen his hand yet and have watched it dozens of times trying to see that part. Then someone "reports" that rice told him he struck her. Sorry, but before I send someone to jail I am going to have to have some better "proof". At this point, havent seen it. I dont have any opinion one way or the other until I do.


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## Nate_in_IN (Apr 5, 2013)

fffarmergirl said:


> He may have got greater punishment if domestic violence didn't have so many protections built in. If the abused woman doesn't have the courage to press charges, or if she has forgiven the man and loves him and doesn't want him punished, he's not going to get punished.


I don't think this is the case. This is a criminal case not a civil one. The State is the one who prosecute not the person who received the abuse. Now I'm sure there may be a civil suit filed which would require the abused to press charges. Specifically in this case the charges were filed and a grand jury indicted him. He was due to stand trial but for a deal worked with the prosecutor.



fffarmergirl said:


> Did you read or hear her statement? She's accusing the press of ruining the life of the man she loves. She defends him and puts herself as much to blame as him by accusing the press of ruining _their_ lives not just his. She forgave him even before he hit her.


I can agree with her in much of this statement. The Press and the publicity of this event has had a drastic impact on both of their lives. As far as forgiving him before he hit her, how do you know that? How do you know it wasn't during one of their counselling sessions that she was able to forgive him?



fffarmergirl said:


> And yes - she did slap him. We don't know why she slapped him - but that doesn't justify him cold cocking her.


Of course it doesn't justify aggravated assault. Of course it does mean she is guilty of the same crime. And in fact she was arrested for it.



fffarmergirl said:


> And YES - she did marry him. That absolutely does not mean he's not abusive. Women marry abusive men all the time. We all know that. Women marry men who have tried to kill them. They think they can't do any better. They think they deserve it. It comes from being verbally and emotionally abused for many years by other people prior to meeting an abusive man. If you've never been abused and don't understand that, well - congratulations on being born into a nice family.


I'm sure all that you wrote in this paragraph has been true in other cases. It may be true in this case. The problem I have with it is how do you know? What evidence do you have that Mr. Rice has been abusive before or since this incident? Last I checked a woman of consenting age is generally free to pursue and marry whomever she wants. the fact here is this was Mr. Rice's first arrest for aggravated assault. That fact, along with Mrs. Rice's desires / testimony probably played a good deal into the decision of the prosecutor not to take the case to court.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

fffarmergirl said:


> He may have got greater punishment if domestic violence didn't have so many protections built in. If the abused woman doesn't have the courage to press charges, or if she has forgiven the man and loves him and doesn't want him punished, he's not going to get punished.
> 
> Did you read or hear her statement? She's accusing the press of ruining the life of the man she loves. She defends him and puts herself as much to blame as him by accusing the press of ruining _their_ lives not just his. She forgave him even before he hit her.
> 
> ...


I understand abuse, what I dont understand is how anyone can pretend to KNOW beyond a reasonable doubt that any abuse took place, just by viewing this video. When there are two quite plausible explanations for what we actually see... one proving abuse, the other being a simple defensive maneuver (raising an arm to prevent being slapped.... again) then there is reasonable doubt as to his hitting her. Based on that alone... one must vote to acquit. That being said, if other evidence is presented, that proved he did strike her, then that of course changes everything.

One thing I will agree with Mrs. Rice about though.... the press is surely making a mess of both their lives... over essentially nothing.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

DEKE01 said:


> I'm really shocked by your attitude. In fact if I've had to edit my comments lest my post get deleted by the mods. It is sickening.
> 
> Let's say she was falling down stupid drunk, drunk enough to give her child fetal alcohol syndrome. What on earth does that have to do with the fact that Ray Rice struck her? All the blame and guilt is on his shoulders and his alone. Nothing else matters, not that she might have spit on him, not that some think she was stupid to marry him later, not that she may have been drunk. He committed a crime and should have received a greater punishment from the law. If he had been sent to jail for a year, the NFL actions or non actions would be moot.


In the video, she hit him first.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

That's what everyone is missing. I have been so mad at my wife before I wanted to smack the tar out of her when she use to drink. But I didn't. Who knows if this woman hadn't abused this man for a long time and he just snapped? We don't know.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

For one thing, most often there is not just one hit in a relationship. For another, no matter how many stupid cop shows having women physically deck a male opponent, it does not happen in real life 99.9999% of the time. For another, if the prohibition against hitting a woman was not so pronounced in our culture, it would deteriorate into the sort of places where all kinds of brutality against women is constant. And that makes a violent place for all.

Neither of the participants in that ugly video come out covered in nobility. But the bottom line is that he has the strength to easily kill her with a single blow while she could not defend herself successfully. That power needs to used judiciously as an obligation. Simply because there is no other alternative available than self control.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I don't know if there's evidence he's been abusive before - but he was clearly abusive in that video and then she turned around and defended him, made excuses for him. Made it everybody's fault but his own that his life has been "ruined" because people found out about what he did. CLASSIC battered woman syndrome.

It's bad enough that she chooses to accept such abuse but it really gets me that people are attacking her when she's not the one going after him. She's defending the man that hit her, and she has people on the sidelines saying she's a bad person, that she's lying about the abuse when she's not even the one who accused him, implying she's a gold digger etc. etc. What did she do to deserve this? And who knows what he may have said or done to her before we see her slap him - but there's a difference between a woman slapping a great big hunk of muscle and the powerful football player who's been trained to hit people knocking her out cold. 

It happens all the time - a woman accepts abuse from the people in her life then she gets attacked for it by people who have no idea what the home situation was.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

He has already Admitted to the NFL commissioner that he did indeed hit her, whether or not it was a very hard slap or a punch or a hit, he already has admitted to that fact he did hit her. Which did render her out on the floor as he had to Drag her out of the elevator.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

fffarmergirl said:


> but there's a difference between a woman slapping a great big hunk of muscle and the powerful football player who's been trained to hit people knocking her out cold.


Under the law, there shouldn't be any difference, except possibly in the seriousness of the charge. Under the law, she is just as guilty as he is.

Would a jury or even a judge give a lighter sentence to a woman? Probably.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

fffarmergirl said:


> - but he was clearly abusive in that video
> 
> there's a difference between a woman slapping a great big hunk of muscle and the powerful football player who's been trained to hit people knocking her out cold.


Again the video isnt all that clear... he may have simple been protecting his face from another slap... maybe not, but its really NOT CLEAR.

as to the size of the dog in the fight... I dont think the law places much emphasis on that part. Would it have been any different if she had been the larger of the two? or if he was accused of striking another football player? I am pretty sure when things get physical its called assault..... period. Slapping him (which is clearly visible in this video) was, or at least should have been, every bit the same charge as him striking her... if he actually did.


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## Nate_in_IN (Apr 5, 2013)

Here is an interesting perspective on the NFL side of things.

If the NFL is to investigate and suspend / ban players based on their off field behavior the case can be made that players with off field issues constitute an increased burden on the company. This would mean they will have a decreased value in the NFL due to the increase in burden. A decrease in value will be reflected in a reduction in salary.

This will set in place a system whereby teams will attempt to determine the "risk" posed by players. Care to guess what traits will be used to determine those considered high risk?

I think it much better to avoid any kind of an employer run kangaroo court and just have things managed in criminal court.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

These sorts of intrusive work rules are one of the main reasons why I don't play in the NFL.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> Where is that rule written? To me it seems unreasonable to think the other person will respond with the same level of force. If someone starts a fight, it seems to me the obvious thing to do is with respond with greater force, run away, or try to diffuse the situation. Equal retaliation is just going to prolong the situation making it harder for either side to back down.


I was being fascetious (?) but if he had just spit back betcha he'd still be playing in the nfl. & if he'd diffused the situation he'd prolly be playing too.
It's called domestic violence b/c wife-beating got a bad rap.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

"The law". I'm not talking about the law, here. Laws are made by politicians. There IS a difference, whether the almighty law says there is one or not. Politicians are the last people who should be qualified to judge right vs wrong. 

Neither one of them was right but people should not be attacking her. She has been through enough.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> In the video, she hit him first.


It does not matter. 

She does not have the means to hurt him with a punch or a slap.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

I really didn't need to see the 2nd vid but it does scream what were ya thinkin' when he was only given a slap on the wrist.
Another part of the vid I couldn't get past was the way he drug her off the floor to drag her out of the elevator...the door shut b4 he could get her out so he just DROPS HER! Picks her up again, lops her out, kinda kicks her foot, grabs a shoe, is really irritated that he can't get her outta the way.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Nate_in_IN said:


> Here is an interesting perspective on the NFL side of things.
> 
> If the NFL is to investigate and suspend / ban players based on their off field behavior the case can be made that players with off field issues constitute an increased burden on the company. This would mean they will have a decreased value in the NFL due to the increase in burden. A decrease in value will be reflected in a reduction in salary.
> 
> ...


I agree that sports organizations set up rules for things like performance enhancing drugs or cheating during the game or betting against your team, effectively throwing the game. But, IMHO, the NFL or NBA has no business judging what players do in their own time. If the Criminal Justice system sends them to prison for a year, they won't need the NFL to suspend them for a year, it is done.
Once we head down the slippery slope of expecting athletes to be role models, I don't see how it ends well. What is there to stop a person from setting up an athlete, just to harm the franchise? 
Beautiful woman/ Crazy woman. We've seen the two go together so many times, I'm starting to see a pattern. Athletes that have a lifetime of being special, not needing to do their school work, not needing to follow the rules. Then we see some gorgeous babe that has been treated special all her life. Demanding, self centered, a life time of admiration from everyone. Then she hooks up with a big, powerful aggressive athlete that has no limits to his excesses. 
No guy should ever hit a woman. But I have seen women that do everything to push their husband's buttons, instigate fights, provoke them relentlessly. I guess the video shows that he hit her and she moved back for a moment. There is the key moment. She could have stood there. But instead, she charged him and his reaction was to slug her. I don't know about you, but if I was having an argument with a big, angry, drunk man, in an elevator, that already hit me once, I wouldn't charge him again.

For thousands of years, human genetics that survived were from the most aggressive males and the most submissive women. Ah, but that's a discussion for another time.........


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

fffarmergirl said:


> "The law". I'm not talking about the law, here. Laws are made by politicians. There IS a difference, whether the almighty law says there is one or not. Politicians are the last people who should be qualified to judge right vs wrong.
> 
> Neither one of them was right but people should not be attacking her. She has been through enough.


I am so very sorry, I was just trying to explain my reasoning behind an "I dont know" answer to what sounded like a legal charge. As to picking on her, I dont recall doing that... I already have a wife and dont want Mrs. Rice trying to marry me tomorrow! I hear she has a history of marrying the men that pick on her!


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

I really didn't need to see the 2nd vid but it does scream what were ya thinkin' when he was only given a slap on the wrist.
Another part of the vid I couldn't get past was the way he drug her off the floor to drag her out of the elevator...the door shut b4 he could get her out so he just DROPS HER! Picks her up again, lops her out, kinda kicks her foot, grabs a shoe, is really irritated that he can't get her outta the way.
Sorry for the double post!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Tricky Grama said:


> I really didn't end to see the 2nd vid but it does scream what were ya thinkin' when he was only given a slap on the wrist.
> Another part of the vid I couldn't get past was the way he drug her off the floor to drag her out of the elevator...the door shut b4 he could get her out so he just DROPS HER! Picks her up again, lops her out, kinda kicks her foot, grabs a shoe, is really irritated that he can't get her outta the way.


Yeah, Drunks dealing with other drunks is kinda funny to watch sometimes. Bless his heart, he DID try to help her though.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Right after hearing all the nfl hubbub, when did they see the2nd vid, yadayada, I heard a Dr. Edwards (?) from Berkeley on 1 of the sports talk shows! Wow!
He had a lot of stats & a lot of ranting about wife beating.
More women DIED in the period that we were at war w/Iraq & afg'stan from beatings at the hand of S.O.s-men-than the # of casualties in the wars. Chew on that for a while, this country has got to change culture, or resolve, or awareness, or something!


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Turns out the question evoked a lot more emotion than I anticipated. It reminds me a little of Ferguson.


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

See I didn't see him hit her. 
I saw them get into the elevator.
He steps away from her, she charges him.
I never saw him strike her. Maybe he did and I just don't see it.
If as is stated she was drunk, wearing heels, her stumbling and knocking herself out is plausible. 
If he did it to her, he needs jail time.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

> One thing I will agree with Mrs. Rice about though.... the press is surely making a mess of both their lives... over essentially nothing.


As is everybody.

I didn't vote because it's is none of my business, since I did not witness it, personally.

This is between Ray Rice and his wife.

This is between Ray Rice and the law.

For the rest of us, it's just blood sport, IMO.


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## michael ark (Dec 11, 2013)

Spitting on someone is also assault and yes some women are abusive to their larger stronger man because they know the law will be on their side no matter what happens.
I was even told by the police i would be better off if i retreated from my fathers house if ex broke in and tried to assault or poison me again.She killed one dog and i had to physically stop her from strangling the other.Some people out there are crazy got the dr.note and medication to prove it.So dont judge him to harsh cause you havent walked in his shoes and we dont know the whole story.
P.s She was sheriff's daughter and i had to move so she would not be able to stalk me anymore.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

michael ark said:


> Spitting on someone is also assault and yes some women are abusive to their larger stronger man because they know the law will be on their side no matter what happens.
> I was even told by the police i would be better off if i retreated from my fathers house if ex broke in and tried to assault or poison me again.She killed one dog and i had to physically stop her from strangling the other.Some people out there are crazy got the dr.note and medication to prove it.So dont judge him to harsh cause you havent walked in his shoes and we dont know the whole story.
> P.s She was sheriff's daughter and i had to move so she would not be able to stalk me anymore.


Death by spit? Death by blunt force trauma? Not exactly equal. 
He cold cocked her. Even for spitting, that is not acceptible. Even less so if she is crazy. And he chose to accompany her, she did not ambuse him in some dark alley.


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## michael ark (Dec 11, 2013)

Where did i say spit will kill you? I was saying she committed 2 counts of assault by the law. When did she die did i miss something?:huh:


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

MJsLady said:


> See I didn't see him hit her.
> I saw them get into the elevator.
> He steps away from her, she charges him.
> I never saw him strike her. Maybe he did and I just don't see it.
> ...


and when he completes the Court's orders, he has completed his debt to society and should go back to work. What he does off the field is not the business of NFL or any of the rest of us onlookers. 

If you are seeking role models you'd better get your nose out of professional sports. They aren't there.


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## BlueRose (Mar 7, 2013)

Cycle of Abuse. I want to tell you two stories.

1) a police officer raised that you dont hit a woman. Married wife beats the heck out of him and the kids. One day he comes home after a really bad day late by 20 minutes his wife grapes his gun they struggle gun goes off. Neither one of them are hurt nor the 3 children in the house. Neighbors call the police. Officer was arrested and charged with dv. Lost his career, children and is spending 18 months in jail. Even with the children and others testifying on his behalf. The reason he was staying; he wanted to see his children grow up.

2) My story: grew up with verbal abuse and sexual abuse. 18 maaried to get out of the house. Problem my new husband enjoyed hurting me in ways that no one should be. Ran away to my family for help. They sent me back it was my fault. He finally divorced me and gave me to his cousin for a debt. No I did not try to run where would I have gone? My ex, his cousin, and 2 others was selling drugs. Police came to me and asked me to work a sting I said yes. Before the raid it leaked that I was turning evidence. I was taken across state lines, shot 3 times, beaten with fist, bat, tire iron thrown from a bridge. I survived. Did I learn my lesson, no 5 years later I married another abuser. This time I had friends who got me to a womans shelter. Been free since 2010.

On average a woman will leave an abusive situation 7 times before she stays gone for good.

Children of abuse go different ways; some stay victims, some become abusers, the lucky ones break free and have a good life.

As far as the NFL is concern, Rice was punished by the court and by them. It is over. What good can a special investigation do? Nothing. It is over. I am sure Ms Rice knows she can get help if this is a regular thing. I hope they get counseling and have a very good healthy marriage that last for many years.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

haypoint said:


> and when he completes the Court's orders, he has completed his debt to society and should go back to work. What he does off the field is not the business of NFL or any of the rest of us onlookers.
> 
> If you are seeking role models you'd better get your nose out of professional sports. They aren't there.


basically I agree with that. I see bunches of people saying the NFL should get out front of DV and ban players. Really? Are we going to do the same in the entertainment industry? I don't see lots of people trying to ban Woody Allen, Pee Wee Herman, or Roman Polanski for having sex with teens, or Charlie Sheen and numerous rappers for wife beating.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I find it interesting that we seem to hold our football players to incredibly higher standards than we do our elected officials. A ball player strikes his bride to be... maybe, and is fired and career ruined... a president commits adultery and its all good. We just redefine the word "sex" and everything goes on like nothing ever happened. Go figure.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

BlueRose said:


> On average a woman will leave an abusive situation 7 times before she stays gone for good.


What I take from this statement, is that on average women aint nearly as bright as I always gave them credit for being.


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

Are you asking if it is violence or domestic? It certainly isn't a 'fair fight', he isn't in danger of his life. She is up in his grill a little, but that's about it. So... it _is_ violence (unwarranted at that). Is it not domestic because they are not at home? Is it not domestic because the legal definition is a _pattern_ of control exercised improperly and this was a single event?

R

P.S. And BlueRose... wow, just wow. I'm sorry! :Bawling:


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

haypoint said:


> and when he completes the Court's orders, he has completed his debt to society and should go back to work. What he does off the field is not the business of NFL or any of the rest of us onlookers.
> 
> If you are seeking role models you'd better get your nose out of professional sports. They aren't there.



Indeed


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## BlueRose (Mar 7, 2013)

YH see if you can understand this you are a young child you are told you are no good you cant do anything without you superiors ok and then 9 times out of 10 your beaten or locked up or something of yours is destroyed or killed. You are in a new relationship everything is wonderful you get married and slowly your SO starts to say you dont love me everytime you make plans to see your friends, everytime your family calls your SO is right there telling you that you need to get off the phone. Before you realize what is going on your friends arent calling anymore your family and friends stop coming to see you. One day you open your eyes and realize you are alone. Just you and your SO no friends no family. SO has control over everything you do.
I am not saying that being with your SO all the time is bad but not even being able to go to the outhouse by yourselve is bad.

Abuse is something alot of people dont even realize is happening. I see happy families with happy parents I dont think how wonderful it is my first thought is what is behind that smile.

Yes YH I am in counseling and I have a hard time making good choices. I hope you never have a family member in an abusive situation.

I always said that once I was out I wouldnt go back 3 marriages later I pray this time if I ever decide to take the chance again I am smart enough to find a wonderful SO


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## BlueRose (Mar 7, 2013)

WoM everyday I get stronger thank you for the tears. The more people I can help to understand or reach is worth the pain I went through and still.


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## handymama (Aug 22, 2014)

BlueRose, all I'm gonna say is I've been there and I love you for being brave enough to admit to what happened. Because somehow most people always turn it into it was your fault and you should have done xyz.


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

fffarmergirl said:


> I don't like when people imply she's a bad person for marrying someone who was abusive to her, or that she was just doing it out of greed. The things she said in her statement scream "battered woman syndrome" to me. People with battered woman syndrome were usually abused as children and take abuse as a matter of course. They've been treated like crap all of their lives and they just assume that's how relationships go. They're attracted to abusive people because that's the type of people they're more comfortable around due to being raised around abusers since birth.
> 
> I'm not saying every woman who lets a man beat her comes from abusive parents but it's extremely common. *She can't help her mindset.* She's clearly got some major emotional problems if she's willing to stay with him, regardless of how much money he makes.
> 
> He's a very big, strong, muscular football player and he punched her in the face. I don't care what she did to him - he went WAY over the top.



So we can excuse the behavior of women based on their past. Why can't we excuse Ray Rice's behavior? Maybe he is suffering from Battered Male Syndrome!

Studies have shown women to commit nearly as much physical abuse as men. And likely they are better at verbal and emotional abuse. Of course, we don't care about that. You can say anything you want, to the point of driving someone to suicide, and no problem.

By the way, I see a lot of shows on which women hit men, and apparently that is considered funny.

Really, we don't care much about domestic violence. We only care if men are doing it. So this is part of the war against men.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Actually, stats say different. Men go to the ER w/average of $300 bill (I don't know what ER you get out with only 300but that's what an expert said...) women have ave bill of $1200. FarFAR more women DIE from DV than do men, more women died from DV here during Iraq & afghan wars than did soldiers.


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

Tricky Grama said:


> ... more women died from [domestic violence] here during Iraq & Afghan wars than did soldiers.


If this is an accurate statistic, this should be made into an internet meme and circulated (I believe it to be accurate). 1,300 deaths a year in the U.S. due to domestic violence. We can assume that the vast majority of these are female. Since 2001 there have been 2,344 U.S. military fatalities in Operation Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan). Operation Iraqi Freedom has recorded 4,486 since 2003. Fatalities in both operations have been decreasing recently (the same cannot be said for domestic violence victims).

So, roughly 450 a year for Iraqi Freedom, 200 a year for Enduring Freedom on average. 1,300 a year for domestic violence... the math works. Let's make people aware.

R

P.S. I'd like to make one more point: these statistics do not include women / men who have committed suicide due to hopelessness. Failed relationships are a leading cause of suicide with domestic violence as one contributing factor. In addition, these statistics do not count lives destroyed as a result of emotional, mental, and spiritual abuse... and those numbers are staggering. Leaving someone alive is sometimes far more cruel than killing them. Violence - from one human to another - is epidemic today in our world. There is untold pain out there... the question is, will we stand in the gap for those who cannot - through inability or history - protect themselves?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

BlueRose said:


> YH see if you can understand this you are a young child you are told you are no good you cant do anything without you superiors ok and then 9 times out of 10 your beaten or locked up or something of yours is destroyed or killed. You are in a new relationship everything is wonderful you get married and slowly your SO starts to say you dont love me everytime you make plans to see your friends, everytime your family calls your SO is right there telling you that you need to get off the phone. Before you realize what is going on your friends arent calling anymore your family and friends stop coming to see you. One day you open your eyes and realize you are alone. Just you and your SO no friends no family. SO has control over everything you do.


This sound pretty familiar. It pretty much describes my life up until I divorced my first wife. My older brothers life too, cept that poor rascal's first wife wont even let him get a divorce.


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## BlueRose (Mar 7, 2013)

Alot of people are surprised when they hear that divorce is not a given in some states if one says I dont want a divorce the divorce is not granted. I was lucky after telling me for years that he would not allow me a divorce he signed the papers. As he said that he did not want his good name smeared.

I was prepared with witnesses and dr reports. This time.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

This isn't even about Ray Rice's wife.

This is about people's need to be vindictive, towards a celebrity. If this was Joe Schlub, taking a swing at his girlfriend, this thread would never be taking place.

He just has to be knocked down from his "pedestal". Many don't know or even care, how the event transpired, whether it was a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence, or if it happens every week. His wife says people should butt out, but who cares what she thinks?

Ray Rice, just has to bleed. Ruin his career. Destroy what may be now a happy family. Who cares?

He just has to bleed.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

plowjockey said:


> This isn't even about Ray Rice's wife.
> 
> This is about people's need to be vindictive, towards a celebrity. If this was Joe Schlub, taking a swing at his girlfriend, this thread would never be taking place.
> 
> ...


Does not matter how or why it happened. Does not matter if it is my next door neighbor or a sports star. What he did was wrong in ever way that counts.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

plowjockey said:


> This isn't even about Ray Rice's wife.
> 
> This is about people's need to be vindictive, towards a celebrity. If this was Joe Schlub, taking a swing at his girlfriend, this thread would never be taking place.
> 
> ...


While I'll agree that as a society we love to see the rich and famous fall and suffer the reason we wouldn't have heard of this if it had been Joe Schlub is that Joe Schlub wouldn't have gotten the diversionary program that Ray Rice did. According to a story I saw ( and I don't remember the exact numbers) of 30,000+ domestic violence cases in New Jersey last year only about 300 people were granted this program and none of those cases had the level of violence exhibited in this one.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

DEKE01 said:


> basically I agree with that. I see bunches of people saying the NFL should get out front of DV and ban players. Really? Are we going to do the same in the entertainment industry? I don't see lots of people trying to ban Woody Allen, Pee Wee Herman, or Roman Polanski for having sex with teens, or Charlie Sheen and numerous rappers for wife beating.


Thing of it is, nfl hires, entertainment industry? Guess WE are the hirers? If MGM wants to fire for some reason, yep, but comparing an actual employer to the industry as a whole is not a comparison.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2014/09/federal_judge_mark_fuller_acce.html

Do we have the same standard of outrage for Federal Judges?


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Tricky Grama said:


> Thing of it is, nfl hires, entertainment industry? Guess WE are the hirers? If MGM wants to fire for some reason, yep, but comparing an actual employer to the industry as a whole is not a comparison.


But the movie studios, the distributors, the theatres, etc are all hiring those actors in one way or another. The NFL is an easier target than a distributor that the general public only sees as a name flashed on the screen at the beginning of a movie, but if we are going to demand entertainment companies (and that's what the NFL is) police, prosecute, and punish more rigidly the cops and courts, let's be consistent if we are really sincere.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

mmoetc said:


> http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2014/09/federal_judge_mark_fuller_acce.html
> 
> Do we have the same standard of outrage for Federal Judges?


No, we don't. The outrage should be greater for a judge. Congress should impeach and toss that judge ASAP.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

plowjockey said:


> This isn't even about Ray Rice's wife.
> 
> This is about people's need to be vindictive, towards a celebrity. If this was Joe Schlub, taking a swing at his girlfriend, this thread would never be taking place.
> 
> ...


Yep, nobody likes to see others being successful. Its not just celebrities either... look at all the hatred for businesses that become successful... GE, Wal-mart, Merc, Monsanto etc.... everyone loves to hate success... I think its mostly just jealousy and envy.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Yep, nobody likes to see others being successful. Its not just celebrities either... look at all the hatred for businesses that become successful... GE, Wal-mart, Merc, Monsanto etc.... everyone loves to hate success... I think its mostly just jealousy and envy.


I hate to see anyone hit or injury another person. Trying to pigeon hole the anyone that thinks that he did something wrong is just as bad as what you are accusing them of.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Yep, nobody likes to see others being successful. Its not just celebrities either... look at all the hatred for businesses that become successful... GE, Wal-mart, Merc, Monsanto etc.... everyone loves to hate success... I think its mostly just jealousy and envy.


The only thing America loves more than seeing the mighty fall is a good redemption story. Maybe Mr Rice can hire Michael Vick's PR team.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I do not have all the facts where everyone else got it I do not know.
See there are more facts than just a vid clip. And some I.perceives

Then there is the validity of the law and it's application in this case

Then toss in the situation

So I am not able to condemn.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Was it "domestic violence"? I have already voted "I dont know" but after some reflection on the whole thing I would now have to say NO. It does not fit the definition right up front... even if he did hit her, this is a one time event, in order to be domestic violence it would have to not only be more than one event... I think they call it a pattern of violence or something like that. Even then I am pretty sure to be considered domestic violence it would need to happen between husband and wife... which they werent... and this took place in an elevator.... not at home. Just to clarify my position a bit, a man should never need to hit a woman. There are usually other, much better ways to keep a woman in her place.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

painterswife said:


> Does not matter how or why it happened. Does not matter if it is my next door neighbor or a sports star. What he did was wrong in ever way that counts.


Nobody said it was right. It's the public blood sport I have a problem with.

People desperately want to see a celebrity bleed and it really doesn't matter why. If it was Average Joe, we would pay him no mind, unless we knew him personally.


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