# Irish Slaves



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The Irish slave trade began when 30,000 Irish prisoners were sold as slaves to the New World. The King James I Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.

Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.

From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.

During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.

Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. They’ll come up with terms like “Indentured Servants” to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle.

As an example, the African slave trade was just beginning during this same period. It is well recorded that African slaves, not tainted with the stain of the hated Catholic theology and more expensive to purchase, were often treated far better than their Irish counterparts.

African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (50 Sterling). Irish slaves came cheap (no more than 5 Sterling). If a planter whipped or branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. A death was a monetary setback, but far cheaper than killing a more expensive African. The English masters quickly began breeding the Irish women for both their own personal pleasure and for greater profit. Children of slaves were themselves slaves, which increased the size of the master’s free workforce. Even if an Irish woman somehow obtained her freedom, her kids would remain slaves of her master. Thus, Irish moms, even with this new found emancipation, would seldom abandon their kids and would remain in servitude.

In time, the English thought of a better way to use these women (in many cases, girls as young as 12) to increase their market share: The settlers began to breed Irish women and girls with African men to produce slaves with a distinct complexion. These new “mulatto” slaves brought a higher price than Irish livestock and, likewise, enabled the settlers to save money rather than purchase new African slaves. This practice of interbreeding Irish females with African men went on for several decades and was so widespread that, in 1681, legislation was passed “forbidding the practice of mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of producing slaves for sale.” In short, it was stopped only because it interfered with the profits of a large slave transport company.

England continued to ship tens of thousands of Irish slaves for more than a century. Records state that, after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands of Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia. There were horrible abuses of both African and Irish captives. One British ship even dumped 1,302 slaves into the Atlantic Ocean so that the crew would have plenty of food to eat.

There is little question that the Irish experienced the horrors of slavery as much (if not more in the 17th Century) as the Africans did. There is, also, very little question that those brown, tanned faces you witness in your travels to the West Indies are very likely a combination of African and Irish ancestry. In 1839, Britain finally decided on its own to end its participation in Satan’s highway to hell and stopped transporting slaves. While their decision did not stop pirates from doing what they desired, the new law slowly concluded THIS chapter of nightmarish Irish misery.

But, if anyone, black or white, believes that slavery was only an African experience, then they’ve got it completely wrong.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Given the chance would people today repeat their horrid past?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Of course they would. Without history in it's true form, people by nature will repeat themselves. They always do.
We are no different in our nature than our ancestors, other than we have more history to refer to. 
Well, we did anyway.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Now that I know what the Irish have been thru, I'm heading out to the machine shed to top off some old beer bottles and find my brick in a pantyhose.
I'm gonna protest my way thru Target all the way to the 70" screens.
Reparation checks can be made out to me personally; just put "White Guilt" in the "For" section.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Knowing how the Irish can't keep a glass out of their hands, we'll need a good spokesman.
Someone to inform the public of their early mistreatment, incarceration and the need for justice.
I think any good German or Asian with a grasp of the dialect would do a tip top job.
Make sure we know how our O' Harrahs vote before we let them stagger up on stage.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I tried.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

and don't you dare give up.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SRSLADE said:


> I tried.


Did you misspell "I tired"?


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

GTX63 said:


> Now that I know what the Irish have been thru, I'm heading out to the machine shed to top off some old beer bottles and find my brick in a pantyhose.
> I'm gonna protest my way thru Target all the way to the 70" screens.
> Reparation checks can be made out to me personally; just put "White Guilt" in the "For" section.



I have reparations coming from everyone. My brother sent in his DNA sample at the behest of his middle child and I am owed from everyone. I'll just wait at my mailbox......

No, I owe everyone, too. This all gets so complicated.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Checks and money orders matter.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

The South was populated with non anglo Celts from the early 17 to 18th century. Decedents of these Celts held a multi generational grudge with Anglo's from southern England, who settled the North Eastern states of the US. This played a major roll in the lead up to the Civil war. So, in the irony of ironies, Slavery actually may have played a major roll in the war from both directions.


----------



## brosil (Dec 15, 2003)

You might like the book To Hell Or Barbados by *Sean O’Callaghan .*


----------



## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth

geo


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> I tried.


It's difficult to be _*THAT*_ offensive, to set new lows virtually every day...
I have no idea how they do it.
Has to be heads full of acid & worms...


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Ease up on the English, they were occupied, pillaged, and enslaved by group after group until they are nothing but an amalgamation of slaves and offspring of conquering rapists. Anglicans, Saxons, Bretons, Celts, Picts, fought with each other for centuries until they pretty much all formed a conglomerate, then they got hit by the Norse, and later the Romans. Their later fascination with slavery probably resulted from having been enslaved by civilization after civilization until they learned all the best tricks and tools.

The poor native Americans got the short end of the stick. When Lincoln freed the slaves, they no longer had any value as a resource, so we just genocided most of what was left of them. South of the border Mexico was selling Yaqui Indians to sugar plantations into the early 1900s, at least the ones they didn't round up and lock in a building and incinerate. Too bad they are just not quite dark enough to matter.


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

barnbilder said:


> Ease up on the English, they were occupied, pillaged, and enslaved by group after group until they are nothing but an amalgamation of slaves and offspring of conquering rapists. Anglicans, Saxons, Bretons, Celts, Picts, fought with each other for centuries until they pretty much all formed a conglomerate, then they got hit by the Norse, and later the Romans. Their later fascination with slavery probably resulted from having been enslaved by civilization after civilization until they learned all the best tricks and tools.
> 
> The poor native Americans got the short end of the stick. When Lincoln freed the slaves, they no longer had any value as a resource, so we just genocided most of what was left of them. South of the border Mexico was selling Yaqui Indians to sugar plantations into the early 1900s, at least the ones they didn't round up and lock in a building and incinerate. Too bad they are just not quite dark enough to matter.


Not that it will change the narrative of rapist offspring, which has been repeated for generations,
Recent DNA studies suggest that only about 10% show invader influence.
There is a good BBC documentary on Amazon that covers that particular subject.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

geo in mi said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth
> 
> geo


"Some books have used the term "slaves" for captive Irish people forced from their homes in Ireland and shipped overseas, against their will," Glad to know that there is a difference between forcing someone from their home, against their will, to provide labor, with very little chance of doing anything besides dying at some point during that process, -and actual real slavery.

The only thing more dispicable than wikipedia, is the sick people that use wikipedia as a platform to spread their hatred and divisiveness, as you have done here.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

JeepHammer said:


> Not that it will change the narrative of rapist offspring, which has been repeated for generations,
> Recent DNA studies suggest that only about 10% show invader influence.
> There is a good BBC documentary on Amazon that covers that particular subject.


10% is a pretty big number. I've seen entire economies shut down for a debatable 5% of the population. Have also seen cities on fire for 13% of the population.


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

barnbilder said:


> 10% is a pretty big number. I've seen entire economies shut down for a debatable 5% of the population. Have also seen cities on fire for 13% of the population.


Do you have references for those "Cities On Fire"?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The only thing more despicable is .... never mind.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The only thing more despicable is .... never mind.


Go ahead, spit it out.

Keeping it bottled up will dim your zen


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

LOL 

I started that sentence and realized that I had caught MYSELF in it. 

It’s ok. I did find it amusing to call something that exists on the Internet as 00011001s the most despicable when riots and looting are occurring. 

Back to coffee on the deck.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I started that sentence and realized that I had caught MYSELF in it.


If only we all had the heightened sense of awareness of yourself. But then, doesn't contradiction of self define us as human?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The difference is the self awareness part; without it then the term is called hypocrisy.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> The difference is the self awareness part; without it then the term is called hypocrisy.


Without question.

So is the pursuit of self awareness single purpose to lessen hypocrisy, or to simply recognize it in our self?

To compound the conundrum, the least self aware among us seem to be the most confident and content.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

No, self awareness is not a single minded matter.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> To compound the conundrum, the least self aware among us seem to be the most confident and content.


I would disagree. I've known many folks without a clue who were angry and dissatisfied.
Like eating peas and carrots with a fork, some do it naturally and with others, they have to get tired of making a mess before they get better.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

barnbilder said:


> Ease up on the English, they were occupied, pillaged, and enslaved by group after group until they are nothing but an amalgamation of slaves and offspring of conquering rapists. Anglicans, Saxons, Bretons, Celts, Picts, fought with each other for centuries until they pretty much all formed a conglomerate, then they got hit by the Norse, and later the Romans. Their later fascination with slavery probably resulted from having been enslaved by civilization after civilization until they learned all the best tricks and tools.
> 
> The poor native Americans got the short end of the stick. When Lincoln freed the slaves, they no longer had any value as a resource, so we just genocided most of what was left of them. South of the border Mexico was selling Yaqui Indians to sugar plantations into the early 1900s, at least the ones they didn't round up and lock in a building and incinerate. Too bad they are just not quite dark enough to matter.


They actually are dark enough if they are mostly pure but it's not the right hemisphere. My father used to speak a little Yaqui it whatever they call the language. It was before my time but he had a crew of about 30 of them that escaped Mexico. I saw pictures but never have met one in person.


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

HDRider said:


> Without question.
> 
> So is the pursuit of self awareness single purpose to lessen hypocrisy, or to simply recognize it in our self?
> 
> To compound the conundrum, the least self aware among us seem to be the most confident and content.


"An unexamined life isn't worth living" kind of thing?

Its only useful if you make corrections...

You know, like being a racists to making corrections,
Or being a young Republican, then expanding your knowledge & experience and making corrections for sins of the past.

I'm ALL for that...


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

JeepHammer said:


> "An unexamined life isn't worth living" kind of thing?
> 
> Its only useful if you make corrections...
> 
> ...


I was never a racist, anti LGBTQ+, or a bigot, but I was once a Republican. I expanded my knowledge, and grew up. I was hardcore, so there is hope for everyone.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> I was never a racist, anti LGBTQ+, or a bigot, but I was once a Republican.


So you bought into the Democrat tactic of using hatred and bigotry as tools to further their agenda? Can't beat em, join em kind of thing?


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Farmerga said:


> So you bought into the Democrat tactic of using hatred and bigotry as tools to further their agenda? Can't beat em, join em kind of thing?


Nope, not at all. I found much less hate and anger when I left the ideology of the right side of the platform. I felt better about myself as a human being too. In fact I still do. 

Please don't spin my words into something you want them to say. Thank you in advance.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> The Irish slave trade began when 30,000 Irish prisoners were sold as slaves to the New World. The King James I Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.
> 
> Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.
> 
> ...


You do realize that the book cited in the OP has already been debunked by actual historians, right?

The “Irish slave trade” is a myth.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Maybe white guilt is a myth.

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> I found much less hate and anger when I left the ideology of the right side of the platform.


I had the opposite experience.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

SLFarmMI said:


> The “Irish slave trade” is a myth.


More likely an inconvenient truth.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Farmerga said:


> I had the opposite experience.


I'm truly sorry.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm truly sorry.


I am sure.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Farmerga said:


> More likely an inconvenient truth.


Not any kind of truth, inconvenient or otherwise. The Irish were not slaves.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Yeah, I think you probably should hit your edit button on that one.
Just about every race or country has had some sort or version, even the Emerald isle.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I left the CONS party when I had heard enough racist jokes to make my skin crawl and it made me want to puke.
I realized how narrow minded that party is.
The libs have their faults but a working stiff can get an education and get help doing it.


----------



## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Nope, not at all. I found much less hate and anger when I left the ideology of the right side of the platform. I felt better about myself as a human being too. In fact I still do.
> 
> Please don't spin my words into something you want them to say. Thank you in advance.


you have an interesting way of spinning your own words into a tortured dislike of yourself.

I say that matter of fact, no hidden message, don’t want you to change, be yourself. It’s all fine.

it’s just become comical to me, you end most of your messages these days with the same line, and it is your own words that make the spin, as I see it, not those debating with you.

it’s like you are trying so hard to justify your own thoughts to yourself!

im trying to just read, and not add too much here. Everyone is nuts, myself included, and I just smile and nod a lot, doesn’t pay to say much any more.

these days if I see a statue or painting or banner, I want to shred it, blow it up, or tear it down, I’m offended by everything and everyone.

hopefully that gets me out on the leading edge of cool?

Paul


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

SRSLADE said:


> I left the CONS party when I had heard enough racist jokes to make my skin crawl and it made me want to puke.
> I realized how narrow minded that party is.
> The libs have their faults but a working stiff can get an education and get help doing it.


I'm not a member of either party, it's a very freeing place. Was a democrat when younger since most Hispanics were, that's changing. The two parties IMHO are past their use by date, to much entrenched control.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

no really said:


> I'm not a member of either party, it's a very freeing place. Was a democrat when younger since most Hispanics were, that's changing. The two parties IMHO are past their use by date, to much entrenched control.


Absolutely. Unfortunately, we still have too many people in this country that think it has to be an either-or choice. This is how we end up with Biden vs Trump and how we will end up with an awful President regardless of which one wins.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> Absolutely. Unfortunately, we still have too many people in this country that think it has to be an either-or choice. This is how we end up with Biden vs Trump and how we will end up with an awful President regardless of which one wins.


I'm forty years old and don't remember a time voting that I was at all satisfied with the candidates. I don't appreciate having to hold my nose to vote.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

no really said:


> I'm forty years old and don't remember a time voting that I was at all satisfied with the candidates. I don't appreciate having to hold my nose to vote.


I think things would be better if third party candidates had a fair chance to get their voices heard. Unfortunately as long as the Ds and Rs control access to the debate stage, that will not happen. 

I also think we need to change the way we run campaigns and elections. It is ridiculous that the primaries are spread out over months. I’d rather see 6 weeks of campaigning, primaries on one day, 6 weeks of campaigning between the candidates chosen in the primaries and then the general election on one day. That’s plenty of time for voters to research the candidates and make a choice. But that will never happen. Too much money to be made the way we do it now.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> I think things would be better if third party candidates had a fair chance to get their voices heard. Unfortunately as long as the Ds and Rs control access to the debate stage, that will not happen.
> 
> I also think we need to change the way we run campaigns and elections. It is ridiculous that the primaries are spread out over months. I’d rather see 6 weeks of campaigning, primaries on one day, 6 weeks of campaigning between the candidates chosen in the primaries and then the general election on one day. That’s plenty of time for voters to research the candidates and make a choice. But that will never happen. Too much money to be made the way we do it now.


Money is the key to the whole thing.


----------



## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

barnbilder said:


> "Some books have used the term "slaves" for captive Irish people forced from their homes in Ireland and shipped overseas, against their will," Glad to know that there is a difference between forcing someone from their home, against their will, to provide labor, with very little chance of doing anything besides dying at some point during that process, -and actual real slavery.
> 
> The only thing more dispicable than wikipedia, is the sick people that use wikipedia as a platform to spread their hatred and divisiveness, as you have done here.


Perhaps this will be more to your liking:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/irish-slaves-early-america/

BTW, the only thing I spread was a PBJ sandwich for my lunch.

geo


----------



## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> If only we all had the heightened sense of awareness of yourself. But then, doesn't contradiction of self define us as human?


A heightened sense of awareness comes with practice.
And how lucky we are, we have a constant opportunity to practice.
Watching where our minds go.
Don't believe everything you think, right?

Also, GTX - where are you finding pantyhose that can hold a brick ? No way, I call bs


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

History rather than Snopes. 


“Historical accounts make it clear that when they raided coastal towns from the British Isles to the Iberian Peninsula, the Vikings took thousands of men, women and children captive, and held or sold them as slaves—or thralls, as they were called in Old Norse. According to one estimate, slaves might have comprised as much as 10 percent of the population of Viking-era Scandinavia.”


“Many of these slaves came from the British Isles and Eastern Europe. In one historical account of Viking-era slavery, an early-medieval Irish chronicle known as The Annals of Ulster, described a Viking raid near Dublin in A.D. 821, in which “they carried off a great number of women into captivity.””

There is more detail here: https://www.history.com/news/viking-slavery-raids-evidence


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Moors took slaves at least once. 

https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/...nvaded-west-cork-and-carried-off-irish-slaves

White slaves taken from Iceland, Portugal, etc.

https://www.ironbarkresources.com/slaves/whiteslaves07.htm


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Not any kind of truth, inconvenient or otherwise. The Irish were not slaves.


Ill have to let my relatives know that our family history has been rewritten, and that they weren't really slaves at all. They were given the opportunity to work for free, live in squalor, eat whatever they could find because they were free. Are you or your descendants Irish? Mine are, i know our history too.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

rambler said:


> you have an interesting way of spinning your own words into a tortured dislike of yourself.
> 
> I say that matter of fact, no hidden message, don’t want you to change, be yourself. It’s all fine.
> 
> ...


So true!


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Slavery has been a part of human life on all continents and during all times. Slaves were part of the spoils of war and also a huge business.

The ancient slave trade routes that crossed the Mediterranean since antiquity granted the arrival of African slaves to Europe and Ottoman territories. Coastal inhabitants of Spain, North Africa, Italy and Palestine were also often captured during the frequent pirate raids and later sold as slaves. Ships and boats of various dimensions could easily become the prey of pirates and corsairs, which led to many Englishmen, and Dutchmen being captured and sold into slavery.

The difference is that these were barbaric and uncivilized times. When slaves were brought to the Americas European empires claimed to be the greatest civilizations ever built with immense culture like no other and of course the great Christian religion to guide them. And yet they profited from the horrific enslavement of both Africans and the Indigenous peoples of the Americas. If we can't do better today with the racism bred into our societies by slavery then we are no better than those Europeans, Moors, Assyrians, Jews, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans etc who claim to be the best of humanity.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I don't see any slaves in the US at this time, unless you take into consideration the sex traffickers. 

When some present day slave holders in the US are identified, I'll get in line to help end the problem


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

JeffreyD said:


> Ill have to let my relatives know that our family history has been rewritten, and that they weren't really slaves at all. They were given the opportunity to work for free, live in squalor, eat whatever they could find because they were free. Are you or your descendants Irish? Mine are, i know our history too.


Perhaps you and your relatives should learn the difference between indentured servants and slaves.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JeepHammer said:


> It's difficult to be THAT offensive, to set *new lows virtually every day*...
> I have no idea how they do it.


Some make it look quite easy.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JeepHammer said:


> Do you have *references* for those "Cities On Fire"?


Have you found the one about Trump steering the hurricane?


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> I was never a racist, anti LGBTQ+, or a bigot, but I was once a Republican. I expanded my knowledge, and grew up. I was hardcore, so there is hope for everyone.


When people ask why I don't believe in religion, I have to tell the truth,
I've read the bible, had 4 years of comparative religion, was indoctrinated by the catholic church.

When they ask why I'm not a 'Conservative' I have to tell the truth,
I was a 'Young Republican'.

When they ask why I thump on the extremists, I have to tell the truth,
I spent 16 years in the Marines, 14 deployed to countries where extremists/hard line governments created civil war & genocide.

When they ask why I wear a 'Leftist' face mask, I tell the truth,
I don't want to be seriously sick or die because of a virus.

The list is long, but the folks with two extra brain cells to rub together will get the point.
Extremists can't see past their viewpoints, so they ALWAYS miss the point...


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> I left the CONS party when I had heard enough racist jokes to make my skin crawl and it made me want to puke.
> I realized how narrow minded that party is.
> The libs have their faults but a working stiff can get an education and get help doing it.


What I've experienced,
One thing about 'Conservatism' is you can never go "Too Low" and you never make a mistake (you'll admit to) because you have been too lazy to try anything new, do anything.
It's easier to be lazy, then point out the fails from the people trying to get something done, make things better...
Noting to add but racists jokes/actions, hypocrisy and obstructionism.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Moors took slaves at least once.
> 
> https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/...nvaded-west-cork-and-carried-off-irish-slaves
> 
> ...


I have read several articles about Baltimore and most of the citizens were captured. During that period most people moved away from the coast to avoid capture. More than 1.2 million whites were slaves in North Africa. 

Estimates for African slaves brought to the US range from 388,000 to just under 500,000.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> The Irish were not slaves.


That's the spin from some.
It's still not factual.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SLFarmMI said:


> Absolutely. Unfortunately, we still have too many people in this country that think it has to be an either-or choice. This is how we end up with Biden vs Trump and how we will end up with an awful President regardless of which one wins.


I don't like either candidate, but at this time we have three choices- write in/don't vote/vote 3rd party (same thing), or the two candidates. I know which two I won't do, so I'm left with the least vomit inducing.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I thought we were talking about Irish slaves in America? That's been debunked, it never happened. Indentured servitude? Yes. Slavery? No.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> I think things would be better if third party candidates had *a fair chance to get their voices heard*.


They have as much "chance" as anyone else.
What they don't have is support.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...eme-repeats-discredited-article-idUSKBN23Q1LQ

"A lengthy post relating to Irish people and slavery has been widely reposted and shared on Facebook. The text is from a widely discredited 2008 article."

*"VERDICT*
False. Facebook posts purporting to describe the origins of “Irish slavery” are a rehash of a 2008 article consisting of numerous false claims."


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

po boy said:


> I have read several articles about Baltimore and most of the citizens were captured. During that period most people moved away from the coast to avoid capture. More than 1.2 million whites were slaves in North Africa.
> 
> Estimates for African slaves brought to the US range from 388,000 to just under 500,000.


Sources? 

I knew about the North Africa slave trade in Europeans, part of the Marine Corps history stopping pirates & slavers.
("... To the shores of Tripoli...")

I know about the Colonial Navy/Marines stopping the open slave trade from Africa, and the Constellation task force, the first US Navy global patrol...
("To The shores of Tripoli"...)

Everyone that's taken time to study ANY history of African slaves to America know the 'Official' number of slaves is so grossly low it's about worthless,

African slaves were sold as 'Caribbean' for over 75 years after importation of African slaves was outlawed, no secret there, so it negates any 'Official' numbers people attempt to use, so I was wondering about the sources of your numbers...

I'm no expert, but the numbers of African to America slaves are about 3 times what you posted, and I'm always interested in history.


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

painterswife said:


> https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...eme-repeats-discredited-article-idUSKBN23Q1LQ
> 
> "A lengthy post relating to Irish people and slavery has been widely reposted and shared on Facebook. The text is from a widely discredited 2008 article."
> 
> ...


Now, you know you'll take a beating for fact checking a facebag 'MEME' (even though it was a lie)...
You are just supposed to mindlessly consume the memes!


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The most comprehensive analysis of shipping records over the course of the slave trade is the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, edited by professors David Eltis and David Richardson. (While the editors are careful to say that all of their figures are estimates, I believe that they are the best estimates that we have, the proverbial “gold standard” in the field of the study of the slave trade.) Between 1525 and 1866, in the entire history of the slave trade to the New World, according to the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, 12.5 _million_ Africans were shipped to the New World. 10.7 million survived the dreaded Middle Passage, disembarking in North America, the Caribbean and South America.

And how many of these 10.7 million Africans were shipped directly to North America? _Only about 388,000. _That’s right: a tiny percentage.

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-am...oss/history/how-many-slaves-landed-in-the-us/


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

The shipping of criminals to other parts of the world doesn't make them slaves.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

JeepHammer said:


> Sources?
> 
> I knew about the North Africa slave trade in Europeans, part of the Marine Corps history stopping pirates & slavers.
> ("... To the shores of Tripoli...")
> ...


This source shows 388,000 and several quotes the same thing. My bookmarks are screwed up but I think it was History.com reported just under 500K.

These numbers appear to be right as there were less than 4 million slaves in the 1850 or 60 census. I'll have to dig that up


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> Slavery has been *a part of human life on all continents and during all times*. Slaves were part of the spoils of war and also a huge business.


Yes it has.
But it's not here and now, so all the "protests" are fake.
They are more political in nature.
Everyone knows that, even if they don't want to admit it to themselves.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The woke high priestess of racism - Robin J. DiAngelo is an American academic, lecturer, and author working in the fields of critical discourse analysis and whiteness studies


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JeepHammer said:


> *Extremists* can't see past their viewpoints, so they ALWAYS miss the point...


Yes "they" always miss the point.
They think "they" doesn't include "them".


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's the spin from some.
> It's still not factual.


It is absolutely factual no matter how desperately you wish it not to be so. The claims put forth by the OP have been debunked.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> *"VERDICT*
> False. Facebook posts purporting to describe the origins of “Irish slavery” are a rehash of a 2008 article consisting of numerous false claims."


Only an idiot would get their history lessons from Facebook.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> It is absolutely factual no matter how desperately you wish it not to be so. The claims put forth by the OP *have been debunked*.


Yes, I realize you will repeat that ad nauseam.

It won't change the reality that there have been slaves of all races all over the world since humans evolved.

The blacks here don't deserve any special treatment because of it now.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Yes, I realize you will repeat that ad nauseam.
> 
> It won't change the reality that there have been slaves of all races all over the world since humans evolved.
> 
> The blacks here don't deserve any special treatment because of it now.


What did the OP claim? Was it this:



HDRider said:


> The Irish slave trade began when 30,000 Irish prisoners were sold as *slaves to the New World*. I snipped for brevity


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Put into modern terminology, Cromwells’ combined strategies of killings, *selling Irish people into slavery* and transplantations were a *full scale ethnic cleansing of Ireland*.
https://www.enjoy-irish-culture.com/cromwell-in-ireland.html

Historian Liam Hogan has spent the last *six years *debunking the Irish slave myth.
https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-irish-were-not-slaves


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

This all starting to sound like whitesplaining to wash away guilt for slavery.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SRSLADE said:


> This all starting to sound like whitesplaining to wash away guilt for slavery.


Did someone here own slaves?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> What did the OP claim? Was it this:


Yes, you copied and pasted correctly



> HDRider said: ↑
> The Irish slave trade began when 30,000 Irish prisoners were sold as *slaves to the New World*. I snipped for brevity


It *doesn't* say this:



Irish Pixie said:


> I thought we were talking about Irish slaves *in America*?


"America" was not the sole subject.

There is also not a word about voting or political parties, or virtue signaling individuals here but some still keep trying to work those topics into every thread also.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

SRSLADE said:


> This all starting to sound like whitesplaining to wash away guilt for slavery.


It's history.
Slavery of anyone is wrong and it has gone on since the beginning of time, including today.
I have no guilt to wash away,


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> "America" was not the sole subject.


I do appreciate the creative response. Thank you. It's still wrong, but thank you nevertheless.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Yes, I realize you will repeat that ad nauseam.
> 
> It won't change the reality that there have been slaves of all races all over the world since humans evolved.
> 
> The blacks here don't deserve any special treatment because of it now.


It won’t change the reality that the “but the Irish were slaves too” mantra is bunk. It won’t change the reality that the information presented in the OP has been examined and discredited. It won’t change the reality that you apparently can’t abide it when misinformation is challenged.


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

HDRider said:


> The most comprehensive analysis of shipping records over the course of the slave trade is the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, edited by professors David Eltis and David Richardson. (While the editors are careful to say that all of their figures are estimates, I believe that they are the best estimates that we have, the proverbial “gold standard” in the field of the study of the slave trade.) Between 1525 and 1866, in the entire history of the slave trade to the New World, according to the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, 12.5 _million_ Africans were shipped to the New World. 10.7 million survived the dreaded Middle Passage, disembarking in North America, the Caribbean and South America.
> 
> And how many of these 10.7 million Africans were shipped directly to North America? _Only about 388,000. _That’s right: a tiny percentage.
> 
> https://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-am...oss/history/how-many-slaves-landed-in-the-us/


It's at least a somewhat credible source, but you missed two VERY BIG points...

1. The United States didn't exist until 1783 when the revolutionary war was finally won.
Aside from popular belief, the 'Leftist', 'Socialist', 'Revolutionary', NEWLY BORN government couldn't do much about what the 'Previous Adminstration' (British) did.

Being the US 'Far Leftist' government declared importation of African slaves illegal,
African slaves were being imported, and falsified documents saying they were 'Caribbean'...
Not 'New' slaves, but simply transferred from Caribbean colonies to the US.
No secret here, MANY books, documented cases/trials, and for the history challenged, some recent movies...

The problem was so bad the newly formed, and deeply in debt US government launched a punitive expedition to the African coast and patrolled the 'Middle Passage' to *Try* and stop African slavery to the US.
(US Marine Corps beat that one into us)

So, from Sept. 1783 to 1865 when the 'Civil' war ended.
No excuses, the fledgling US government did try to cut the snakes head off at the source across the Atlantic, and then tried to put a stop to slavery world wide.
Credit, and blame, where each is due...

2. When anyone writes _*ONLY*_ attached to any number but zero (0) when talking about slavery (or rape, murder, etc),
It's a direct insult to the pain and suffering ANY slave (forced labor with no rights) went through, AND THEIR DECENDANTS.

-----------

By no means, under any circumstances was (or is) slavery justified.
But the US can't be held responsible for "500 years" of slavery since the US is only 237 years old. (1783 to 2020)

I'm always amazed how many people that rant about "500 years of slavery" aren't aware the US launched several punitive expeditions, even when they couldn't afford the ships or men on Constellation task force,
Or the 1st Barbary War (circa 1805),
On through, pretty well ending piracy/large scale slavery in the early 1900s.

*It's disrespectful to the service members that fought and died to stop slavery entirely.*

It's not like the US gave slavery a wink & nod, although it took until 1865 (end of 'Civil' war) to clean it's own house, I won't white wash that transgression,
But the US ACTIVELY took the issue of ending slavery to the rest of the world...

Now, piracy is back,
Supported by China in the China Sea,
Somali pirates in the Gulf Of Aden, etc.
And in case you haven't been watching ISIS type groups, slavery is back...

When I see the posts discounting the pain and suffering, and usually by a vocal few self professed 'Conservatives',
I'm wondering when the Leftists, Socalist, Revolutionary types will rise up yet again and bring the hammer down those that want to "Bring Back The Good Old Days"...
I'm thinking the British from 1812-1814 raised the white flag,
The Confederacy from 1861-1865 both wanted to 'Make America Like It Was',
Neither went very well for them.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> I do appreciate the creative response. Thank you. It's still wrong, but thank you nevertheless.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

po boy said:


> It's history.
> Slavery of anyone is wrong and it has gone on since the beginning of time, including today.
> I have no guilt to wash away,


This guilt thing seems to be spreading. Maybe they should run a ticker on CNN next to the Wuflu from dui/shooting/suicide body counts.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> This guilt thing seems to be spreading. Maybe they should run a ticker on CNN next to the Wuflu from dui/shooting/suicide body counts.


Or people here On HT who like posting about death counts could include the ticker for the other deaths in their signature line next to the Covid body count .


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Keeping body counts under the guise of caring about people is akin to calling yourself a car salesman everytime you trade your Buick for another model.

It's ok to feel like one needs to "do something" and it's ok to say "XYZ" isn't their bag, but the dishonesty is pretty obvious.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> It won’t change the reality that the “but the Irish were slaves too” mantra is bunk. It won’t change the reality that the information presented in the OP has been examined and discredited. It won’t change the reality that you apparently can’t abide it when misinformation is challenged.


So, just to be clear, you are saying no Irish people were ever slaves? Or they have been, just not as described by the OP's literature?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)




----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> I left the CONS party when I had heard enough racist jokes to make my skin crawl and it made me want to puke.
> I realized how narrow minded that party is.
> The libs have their faults but a working stiff can get an education and get help doing it.


You should meet a few Democrat politicians and see what jokes they have. It's disgusting.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

mreynolds said:


> You should meet a few Democrat politicians and see what jokes they have. It's disgusting.


They even offer to moonwalk in blackface for you, I have heard.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The only explanation can be that Mr. Northrup must be a right wing extremist disguised as a Democrat.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

GTX63 said:


> The only explanation can be that Mr. Northrup must be a right wing extremist disguised as a Democrat.
> View attachment 88582


Is that the PM of Canada on the left?


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Hiro said:


> So, just to be clear, you are saying no Irish people were ever slaves? Or they have been, just not as described by the OP's literature?


The Irish were never slaves in the “New World” as was claimed in the OP. It is a myth.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Just another tidbit...

https://www.historynet.com/were-the-irish-slaves.htm

A slave by any other name would smell as sour.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I suppose there is something noble for dying on one's own hill...I suppose.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> It won’t change the reality that the “but the Irish were slaves too” mantra is bunk. It won’t change the reality that the information presented in the OP has been examined and discredited. It won’t change the reality that you apparently can’t abide it when misinformation is challenged.


See?
I knew you'd repeat yourself.



SLFarmMI said:


> The Irish were never slaves in the “New World” as was claimed in the OP. It is a *myth*.


Repeating it still?
Maybe the myth is the myth.


----------



## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

JeepHammer said:


> It's at least a somewhat credible source, but you missed two VERY BIG points...
> 
> 1. The United States didn't exist until 1783 when the revolutionary war was finally won.
> Aside from popular belief, the 'Leftist', 'Socialist', 'Revolutionary', NEWLY BORN government couldn't do much about what the 'Previous Adminstration' (British) did.
> ...



Interesting.

mostly the Conservative party brought about the end, or the idea of the end, to slavery.

mostly, the liberal side of the country supported slavery until the bitter end.

even today, the liberal side of the country supports illegal alien immigration, which is obviously slavery, or indentured servitude, whatever words class it up to your liking. Mexicans and other poor folk come in over the border, and have to work in fear and undocumented and hiding and keep in the shadows, not a real resident.

basically, a slave, they have no rights. Just the way the liberal party likes it.

and the more liberal folk encourage and support such nonsense. Recreation of the slave trade. Come do our dirty work, but we won’t count you.

shame on them.

Irish, blacks, Mexicans. It’s all slavery, or whatever fancy words you want to call it. Work and use people without accounting for them.

obviously you will need to deny this, but when the computer goes off and the lights go out, and in the quiet of our own souls, we will all know the truth of this.

no, I won’t let conservatives off entirely either. While they often worked to end the practice, they have a rather pragmatic desire to do cost analysis of the whole deal and see if it makes acceptable financial sense. 

But liberals, they have always loved having their slaves. Even today they are out promoting the idea, under new labels and trickery.

Or, you can believe what you wrote. Which is incredibly naive.

Paul


----------



## Twp.Tom (Dec 29, 2010)

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/i...x0DzmwutaLG0VvrKMx-l1tolU4QhUMhXD-NAlx2qMbL78
Snopes, and Wikipedia are wrong?


----------



## rohitrand (Jun 23, 2020)

Twp.Tom said:


> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/i...x0DzmwutaLG0VvrKMx-l1tolU4QhUMhXD-NAlx2qMbL78
> Snopes, and Wikipedia are wrong?


truth has been spoken


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

JeepHammer said:


> *African slaves were sold as 'Caribbean' for over 75 years after importation of African slaves was outlawed, no secret there, so it negates any 'Official' numbers people attempt to use, so I was wondering about the sources of your numbers...*
> 
> I'm no expert, but the numbers of African to America slaves are about 3 times what you posted, and I'm always interested in history.


Please provide a source for the bold c0ntent.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> See?
> I knew you'd repeat yourself.
> 
> 
> ...


See? I knew you’d post, adding nothing to the discussion. Go find the primary sources proving that the Irish were slaves in the New World and post them here. You can’t because they don’t exist. Instead, you’ll do what you always do—trolling every thread on the board, posting as if you are an expert on all things and then, when you have nothing to add to the discussion, posting one of your favorite lines. You are incredibly predictable.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Your using semantics when honesty would be the proper tool.
But good luck with that wherever you go.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> See? I knew you’d post, adding nothing to the discussion. Go find the primary sources proving that the Irish were slaves in the New World and post them here. *You can’t because they don’t exist.* Instead, you’ll do what you always do—trolling every thread on the board, posting as if you are an expert on all things and then, when you have nothing to add to the discussion, posting one of your favorite lines. You are incredibly predictable.


Like some Confederate monuments? 
History is being erased.
Maybe that's happened before.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Like some Confederate monuments?


Are you unclear what “primary source” means? Wondering what strange mental gymnastics you did that led you to believe that Confederate statues have anything to do with fictional Irish slavery.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> *Are you unclear *what “primary source” means? Wondering what strange mental gymnastics you did that led you to believe that Confederate statues have anything to do with fictional Irish slavery.


I'm sorry you don't understand, even though it was already explained.
I'm clear you'll just keep repeating yourself though.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I'm sorry you don't understand, even though it was already explained.
> I'm clear you'll just keep repeating yourself though.


There’s the pathetic response that I expect from you along with one of your oft repeated lines.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

This is all a smoke and mirrors game so we don't think about todays problems.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> There’s the pathetic response that I expect from you along with one of your oft repeated lines.


You said that before too. 
This is my stop.
I'm getting off.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You said that before too.
> This is my stop.
> I'm getting off.
> View attachment 88598


As expected, you can’t support your claims and just can’t admit it.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SRSLADE said:


> This is all a smoke and mirrors game so we don't think about todays problems.


And...so you are tied to a chair and forced to view HT? 
You probably need some fresh air don't you?


----------

