# Rude behavior.



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

The incident I am about to relate happened the Sunday before last. I have waited to mention it, because I wanted to see if I might be in some kind of trouble.

There is a small Cafe in the town where I pick up my mail. The woman who runs it cooks some of the best grub I have ever gotten on the outside of. Every Sunday she puts on a big feed. It costs $15.00 for all you can eat. She serves this meal on those big stainless steel trays, like the ones we ate on at the mess hall when I was in the Army.

There are five waitresses who work there on Sundays, and it is all they can do to keep up. Three of the waitresses are young girls, 14,15, and 16 years old. Working there is part of their Home Schooling. She pays them something, and they split the tips. She is teaching them to cook, how to keep books, and generally how to run your own business.

People drive from all around to get together with friends, eat, and listen to live music. The Volunteer Fire Department has a small band, they put on shows then pass the hat, to help raise funds for the Department.

The dining area is always packed, and this day was no different. I was standing out of the way near a side door, waiting for my to-go order. When I heard a commotion. The fourteen year old waitress, who by the way is cuter than a speckled pup sitting on a new saddle blanket. Was passing through the dining room with one of the trays in one hand, and a pitcher if iced tea in the other.

Some middle aged tourist, mumbled something to his buddies and patted her on the rump. She never hesitated, she set the pitcher down on the nearest table, then bent that stainless steel tray over his head. An old rancher was sitting at a near by table, and he saw the whole thing. (I got the details from him afterwards).

This old man probably in his seventies, I don't know for sure how old he is, but I am sixty five and he is older than me. He jumped up and grabbed this fella by the back of his collar and his left arm. When I saw the old man jump up, I started forward. Took me about three strides to get to them. I grabbed the guy by the seat of his pants and his right arm. I looked over at the rancher and asked, "what are we doing"? "Were throwing this rude SOB out of here" he said. "Good enough" I replied. So we took this feller outside and proceeded to rake the gravel parking lot with his face.

I can't speak for everybody else around here. But us old farts, we don't tolerate rude behavior.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Ya'll sure are nice out west in tourist country. You get your ass kicked around these parts for that behavior.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

You did good.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Hiro said:


> Ya'll sure are nice out west in tourist country. You get your ass kicked around these parts for that behavior.


There are five steps from the walk way, up to the porch. I don't remember him touching any of them. We were starting to cut the second furrow across the parking lot with his nose, when that waitress came out on the porch with a large paper bag in her hand. She hollered at me, "excuse me mister, your dinner is ready". I thanked the lady, took the bag, got in my truck and went home.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Middle aged men should not be touching 14 year old girls and I doubt if he’s going to be too eager to mention anything about it.


----------



## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

Nope. You done did good.


----------



## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

muleskinner2 said:


> The incident I am about to relate happened the Sunday before last. I have waited to mention it, because I wanted to see if I might be in some kind of trouble.
> 
> There is a small Cafe in the town where I pick up my mail. The woman who runs it cooks some of the best grub I have ever gotten on the outside of. Every Sunday she puts on a big feed. It costs $15.00 for all you can eat. She serves this meal on those big stainless steel trays, like the ones we ate on at the mess hall when I was in the Army.
> 
> ...


We must be Kinfolk, I already know that we’re both Hoodlums 😉


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Good you and the other guy stepped in to back up the young gal. Good deal she bent that tray…..


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Kiamichi Kid said:


> I already know that we’re both Hoodlums 😉


I suspected as much, but didn't want to say anything.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Redlands Okie said:


> Good you and the other guy stepped in to back up the young gal. Good deal she bent that tray…..


When I grabbed that guy by the seat of his pants, I was backing up the old man. I didn't know about what he had done until we were outside.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Pedophiles get whatever butt whooping comes their way. Kudos to the girl for not putting up with such behavior. Thank you for backing up the gentleman that taught the groper a lesson.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Danaus29 said:


> Thank you for backing up the gentleman that taught the groper a lesson.


I don't think he really needed any help. When he was flying choppers out of Saigon in 71, they didn't give him a bronze star, and a purple heart for his charm and good looks.


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

I didn't see nothin'. Shoulda hooked Scooter up to his ankles and drag him around for a while.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

At least two people will never forget that. And, I bet one of them will not molest a young girl again. 

BTW - Why did you think you might be in trouble?


----------



## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

Hiro said:


> Ya'll sure are nice out west in tourist country. You get your ass kicked around these parts for that behavior.


I'm in the same part of the country as you. Around here I see offenses all the time that are not dealt with in a manner that teaches a lesson. It's my opinion that is why wrong behavior flourishes. 

He put his hands on an 14-year-old girl.

The girl, muleskinner, and the rancher acted right. Maybe now he will think twice before violating another one.


----------



## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Sounds like a tall tale, but I'm behind the concept.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

As it happened inside the restaurant, it was up to the owner to take action. I would then have backed her up as necessary. Vigilante justice should never be the 1st option unless there is no other option.


----------



## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

My favorite part is when she dumped the pan on him. 
Also how you guys stepped up for her.
Dude was a creep.


----------



## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

wr said:


> Middle aged men should not be touching 14 year old girls and I doubt if he’s going to be too eager to mention anything about it.


No one should be touching anyone else (without permission). It would have wound up poorly for him around here. I know a couple that would do a little more than that, and THEN tell the police that the person "fell down the stairs" when they got there to hall the perp away.


----------



## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

reckon what the dudes buddies thought about all that?


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> As it happened inside the restaurant, it was up to the owner to take action. I would then have backed her up as necessary. Vigilante justice should never be the 1st option unless there is no other option.


Sexual abuse of a child should be everbodies call to action. If the slug was that blatant in a public place no telling how he behaves in private.


----------



## maddmatt (Mar 29, 2009)

I've long said that the biggest cause of ill manners is that too many folks ain't had their butt whooped recent enough.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

no really said:


> Sexual abuse of a child should be everbodies call to action. If the slug was that blatant in a public place no telling how he behaves in private.


He was in a place of business and the owner (or manager or the girl) was the only one that had the legal right to deal with the situation. The guy could have sued the owner for any physical injuries he received from the restaurant's patrons.

I have no problem with them telling the guy to get out of the restaurant, and I understand the sentiment, but their actions could have led to legal trouble for the owner. That's why I said I would back up the owner, but I would not initiate a physical confrontation on my own as a restaurant customer.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> He was in a place of business and the owner (or manager or the girl) was the only one that had the legal right to deal with the situation. The guy could have sued the owner for any physical injuries he received from the restaurant's patrons.
> 
> I have no problem with them telling the guy to get out of the restaurant, and I understand the sentiment, but their actions could have led to legal trouble for the owner. That's why I said I would back up the owner, but I would not initiate a physical confrontation on my own as a restaurant customer.


And that attitude is why the criminal population is growing. The slug sexually assaulted a child.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

whiterock said:


> reckon what the dudes buddies thought about all that?


They were all pretty busy wiping chicken and dumplings off their faces.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

wr said:


> Middle aged men should not be touching 14 year old girls and I doubt if he’s going to be too eager to mention anything about it.


Part of the problem is she looks like she might be 19 or 20 years old.


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> He was in a place of business and the owner (or manager or the girl) was the only one that had the legal right to deal with the situation. The guy could have sued the owner for any physical injuries he received from the restaurant's patrons.
> 
> I have no problem with them telling the guy to get out of the restaurant, and I understand the sentiment, but their actions could have led to legal trouble for the owner. That's why I said I would back up the owner, but I would not initiate a physical confrontation on my own as a restaurant customer.


There are some times when legalities need to be disregarded and instant justice must prevail, and this incident was one of them. 

The blatant stranger sexually man-handled a child in a public place in front of witnesses. 

That is the type of incident that can make other people present put self-control on the back burner and turn into a lynch mob and the guy is lucky that only 3 people reacted, and quite mildly the way they did, and that he wasn't seriously injured or killed.

Although I don't feel comfortable about the miscreant's face being made to connect with the gravel outside and get dragged across it I know if I had been that 14 year old girl I would have definitely wanted to knock the guy down so I could put the boots to both of his offending hands and break them. Legalities bedamned.

.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

no really said:


> And that attitude is why the criminal population is growing. The slug sexually assaulted a child.


Why not call the police then? Someone could have gotten his license #. He could have been detained until the police arrived. There were other, better options than acting like it is still the 1950s.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> Why not call the police then?


I think the point was made, people in the community know who and what the person is.


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

muleskinner2 said:


> Part of the problem is she looks like she might be 19 or 20 years old.


Her looks and her age is not a problem and it's no excuse for anybody to manhandle or otherwise take liberties with another person. The only person that has a real problem is the man who took liberties with her.

.


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> Why not call the police then?


Why call them?

.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Paumon said:


> Why call them?
> 
> .


Because if he is a child molester the law needs to deal with him.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Paumon said:


> Her looks and her age is not a problem and it's no excuse for anybody to manhandle or otherwise take liberties with another person. The only person that has a real problem is the man who took liberties with her.
> 
> .


He paid for his mistake.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> Because if he is a child molester the law needs to deal with him.


There is no indication that he might be a child molester. He patted a waitress who looks like she is 19 or 20, and he paid for his behavior.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> Why not call the police then?


Because they are an hour away, and it was dinner time.


----------



## maddmatt (Mar 29, 2009)

Paumon said:


> There are some times when legalities need to be disregarded and instant justice must prevail, and this incident was one of them.
> 
> The blatant stranger sexually man-handled a child in a public place in front of witnesses.
> 
> ...


From past experience, a good course of action for a young man messing around with a relative far to young for his is as follows.

Step 1: Grab a few Brutish brother in laws and “politely” invite the the young man to set between them in the truck.

Step 2: Drive him 10 or 12 miles up on an old abandoned reclaimed strip job with no cell service.

Step 3: Remove the young man from the truck and “politely” ask for his boots.

Step 4: Drive home. He longer he walks barefooted the longer he has to think about things. The longer he thinks, the more he realizes that he’s lucky that shoes are all it cost them.

The only justice you’ll find in life will be that you get yourself. The “justice system” is designed to protect the criminals from us, not us from them


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Paumon said:


> Her looks and her age is not a problem and it's no excuse for anybody to manhandle or otherwise take liberties with another person. The only person that has a real problem is the man who took liberties with her.
> 
> .


I never said that it was an excuse, but it was the reason. Two different things.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> He could have been detained until the police arrived


Detained for what? What laws did he break? Stupid in public, isn't a felony.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> He was in a place of business and the owner (or manager or the girl) was the only one that had the legal right to deal with the situation.


Calm down Karen, he won't do it again.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

HDRider said:


> BTW - Why did you think you might be in trouble?


Because there is always some busybody with a cell phone camera.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> Vigilante justice should never be the 1st option unless there is no other option.


In my experience, vigilante justice is the closest thing to real justice you will ever see. I worked in the criminal justice system for over twenty years, and I have no faith in it at all.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

muleskinner2 said:


> Calm down Karen, he won't do it again.


I was just explaining why I would have handled it differently. My concern was that if he was injured and took legal action, the owner of the restaurant would have been sued.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

muleskinner2 said:


> In my experience, vigilante justice is the closest thing to real justice you will ever see. I worked in the criminal justice system for over twenty years, and I have no faith in it at all.


I don't have as much faith in it as I used to have, but the alternative is anarchy.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> I was just explaining why I would have handled it differently. My concern was that if he was injured and took legal action, the owner of the restaurant would have been sued.


The man would be a bigger fool if he did that. The young lady could file a sexual assault charge against him. She should report it.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

MoonRiver said:


> As it happened inside the restaurant, it was up to the owner to take action. I would then have backed her up as necessary. Vigilante justice should never be the 1st option unless there is no other option.


I guess your state laws are different. Unwanted touching here is considered assault. Ohio appreciates people who step in to stop assaults.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

po boy said:


> The young lady could file a sexual assault charge against him. She should report it.


At best you might make a case for misdemeanor assault. Against a tourist passing through, it isn't worth the time and trouble.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> He was in a place of business and the owner (or manager or the girl) was the only one that had the legal right to deal with the situation. The guy could have sued the owner for any physical injuries he received from the restaurant's patrons.
> 
> I have no problem with them telling the guy to get out of the restaurant, and I understand the sentiment, but their actions could have led to legal trouble for the owner. That's why I said I would back up the owner, but I would not initiate a physical confrontation on my own as a restaurant customer.


There is legal and illegal, and there is right and wrong. The two almost never have anything to do with each other.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Danaus29 said:


> I guess your state laws are different. Unwanted touching here is considered assault. Ohio appreciates people who step in to stop assaults.


If it was assault, it was already over when she whacked him with the tray.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> If it was assault, it was already over when she whacked him with the tray.


So?


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> As it happened inside the restaurant, it was up to the owner to take action. I would then have backed her up as necessary. Vigilante justice should never be the 1st option unless there is no other option.


Bull


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> If it was assault, it was already over when she whacked him with the tray.


More bull


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

MoonRiver said:


> If it was assault, it was already over when she whacked him with the tray.


2 men tossing him in the street kept him from doing something else to the waitress. Butt gropers don't like to take "NO" for an answer. The threat wasn't over until the groper was removed from the situation and no longer capable of retaliating against the waitress.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

“(I got the details from him afterwards).”

“I looked over at the rancher and asked, "what are we doing"?”

Muleskinner joined in on the assault of a person based on what exactly? He saw something happening and joined in without knowing why is what I get from his account of what happened.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

doozie said:


> “(I got the details from him afterwards).”
> 
> Muleskinner joined in on the assault of a person based on what exactly? He saw something happening and joined in without knowing why is what I get from his account of what happened.


That is exactly what I did. Sometimes you have to make choices in a split second. My reaction was based upon my training, and experience. I have made life or death decisions in even less time. You see a situation, assess the situation, decide upon a course of action, and act. All of this can be done in tenths of a second. It takes practice, but it can be done.

I am not always right, but I am always certain.

I saw two people who I know. In an altercation with someone I don't know. This led me to believe that they were justified in their actions. Elapsed time approx: 3 tenths of a second.

Time wasted getting to where I could help them: Approx: 6 or 8 tenths of a second. I am not as fast as I once was.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

homesteadforty said:


> More bull


No indication the behavior continued.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Danaus29 said:


> 2 men tossing him in the street kept him from doing something else to the waitress. Butt gropers don't like to take "NO" for an answer. The threat wasn't over until the groper was removed from the situation and no longer capable of retaliating against the waitress.


I bet once she hit him over the head with the tray, it was over. There is no way he would have continued that kind of behavior once he was the center of attention.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

muleskinner2 said:


> That is exactly what I did. Sometimes you have to make choices in a split second. My reaction was based upon my training, and experience. I have made life or death decisions in even less time. You see a situation, assess the situation, decide upon a course of action, and act. All of this can be done in tenths of a second. It takes practice, but it can be done.
> 
> I am not always right, but I am always certain.


“I have waited to mention it, because I wanted to see if I might be in some kind of trouble.”

Hmmmm….

All that aside, the girl should have reported her assault, get his behavior on record.


----------



## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Sounds right out of Lonesome Dove or Secondhand Lions.
Regardless .... good story with happy ending.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Like everything else, two sides develop, two differing opinions emerge.

You did good Mule. If more people did good, there would be less bad.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> I bet once she hit him over the head with the tray, it was over. There is no way he would have continued that kind of behavior once he was the center of attention.


You are probably right. But sometimes you just have to go with what feels good.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Fishindude said:


> Sounds right out of Lonesome Dove or Secondhand Lions.
> Regardless .... good story with happy ending.


If I related the times where I got my butt handed to me, would that make you feel any better. There are plenty of them, but I don't talk about them.

The only time I lie about something, is when I am trying to spare someone's feelings. I don't like any of you enough, to lie to you.


----------



## link30240 (Aug 22, 2021)

MoonRiver said:


> I was just explaining why I would have handled it differently. My concern was that if he was injured and took legal action, the owner of the restaurant would have been sued.



Sometimes a man has to be a man consequences be damned. If more people stood up and did what was right when the opportunity presented itself maybe the world would be a better place now! Too many are content to look the other way because it dont concern them. Thats a problem whether you see it or not!


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> No indication the behavior continued.


No indication it had stopped either... until Muleskinner and Friends made sure.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Fishindude said:


> Sounds right out of Lonesome Dove or Secondhand Lions.
> Regardless .... good story with happy ending.


Fictional stories are often derived from actual events. I have led a pretty sheltered life. My great granddad on my fathers side, left home when he was twelve. He hopped a train and rode north into Northern Michigan. His first job was packing firewood, and hauling water for the cook, at a logging camp. When he was fourteen he went to Detroit. Lived in a rented room with nine other men, and worked loading and unloading freight trains.

Then he heard about someone finding gold, in a place called the Yukon. He actually found some, not a lot but some. He went back to Detroit and bought into a laundry. His son, my granddad grew up pressing shirts, and working the front counter. Then the depression hit, and they lost it all. They moved to a farm one of my uncles had bought up north, near Gaylord Michigan.

They loaded every thing into a freight car and rode to Gaylord. Logged, farmed, ran a grocery store in Elmira Mi, bought and sold land. Came out of the Depression owning three farms free and clear.

Three days after I graduated from High School, I was on a Ranch in Brazil. I came home for a while when I was 24 years old. By that time I had been in South America, South East Asia, and Rhodesia. I had been in the Army, slogged through jungles, climbed mountains, and floated down rivers. Made love to many women, and killed my first man. I stayed on the move until I was 32 years old. Cowboy, mule packer, hunting guide, tower rigger, truck driver, Deputy Sheriff, National Guard and Army Reserve.

I have prospected for gold in West Africa, and driven school bus at a Trading Post in Alaska. I have hunted dangerous game, and dangerous men, terrorists, bandits, and smugglers. My wife wanted me to have a real job, so I found something nice and safe where I could be home every night, and became a Deputy Sheriff for the second time.

I am sixty five now, a little slower, and a little wiser. I have scars from teeth, hooves, claws, knives, wire, rocks, rope, and bullets. And before I leave this little mud ball hurtling through space, I hope to have a few more.


I have met a lot of men, and a few women, who have led very adventuress lives. I worked with a pilot who flew in the Bay of Pigs Invasion. I knew a Pan Am Stewardess who smuggled diamonds for twenty years. They had some real adventures, I am just getting started.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

MoonRiver said:


> He was in a place of business and the owner (or manager or the girl) was the only one that had the legal right to deal with the situation. The guy could have sued the owner for any physical injuries he received from the restaurant's patrons.
> 
> I have no problem with them telling the guy to get out of the restaurant, and I understand the sentiment, but their actions could have led to legal trouble for the owner. That's why I said I would back up the owner, but I would not initiate a physical confrontation on my own as a restaurant customer.



Support the owner but not willing to stand up on your own? Hmm. 

Lots of ways to view this issue. One thing for sure, the handsy guy will be a bit more careful about laying hands on someone else in front of witness again. 

Owner / manager could be sued for any reason, regardless of action or inaction. Owner being held responsible for customers actions? So which actions, the guy being handsy or the guys putting him out, or for not doing anything, or for allowing it to happen? Which are worth being sued over?


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

MoonRiver said:


> Why not call the police then? Someone could have gotten his license #. He could have been detained until the police arrived. There were other, better options than acting like it is still the 1950s.


Sounds like a california or oregan big city solution, we all know how that has been working out. The police can handle it if and when they show up.


----------



## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

MoonRiver said:


> I bet once she hit him over the head with the tray, it was over. There is no way he would have continued that kind of behavior once he was the center of attention.


The fact that you have repeatedly defended this creep raises some questions, and concerns.


----------



## cannonfoddertfc (Dec 20, 2020)

Three types of folks in this world:

Wolves that prey on the sheep.
Sheep that cry for the help of the sheepdog instead of standing up to the wolf.
Sheepdogs that take a stand against the wolf and protect the sheep.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

RJ2019 said:


> MoonRiver said:
> 
> 
> > I bet once she hit him over the head with the tray, it was over. There is no way he would have continued that kind of behavior once he was the center of attention.
> ...


Actually, it’s a question that answers itself, like a self-licking ice cream cone: the butt-squeezer was clearly a Russian.

The next post will be explaining how it was Mr. Skinner’s fault that the creep had no choice but to grab the girl’s butt, that Skinner’s corrective action was a wanton “escalation” of the situation, and that the girl should just give in and have sex with the creep and be thankful for an expedient end to the whole thing.

…oh, and a social media post has surfaced of her jr. high yearbook with her holding a folder on which she drew a picture of an eagle, so she’s obviously a Nazi.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Rude behavior can happen any where. Even in this thread ……..


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

link30240 said:


> Sometimes a man has to be a man consequences be damned. If more people stood up and did what was right when the opportunity presented itself maybe the world would be a better place now! Too many are content to look the other way because it dont concern them. Thats a problem whether you see it or not!


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

RJ2019 said:


> The fact that you have repeatedly defended this creep raises some questions, and concerns.


Please show me just one time I defended the guy.

Saying I would take a different approach than "proceeded to rake the gravel parking lot with his face" is a far cry from defending the creep. I'm surprised so many are condoning violence as the solution.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

If the story is accurate, then likely the guy went back to his wife or girlfriend, who asked him what happened to him. He probably would have responded with some sort of half assed lie at a minimum.
However, his buddies at the table know what happened, the cafe staff and all of the customers know what happened, and that story will travel well.
If the guy wanted to sue as vengeance over an ass beating he deserved, then let him go up and tell his side of the story.
Sometimes modern tact and technique are called for, other times medieval. This time a little taste of the 1950s seems fit.


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> Please show me just one time I defended the guy.


Which one???



> Saying I would take a different approach than "proceeded to rake the gravel parking lot with his face" is a far cry from defending the creep. I'm surprised so many are condoning violence as the solution.


Yes, we all should know that violence is only acceptable when you're invading another country.

Sorry, wrong thread... but it fits for either.


----------



## Liza007 (Mar 12, 2020)

muleskinner2 said:


> The incident I am about to relate happened the Sunday before last. I have waited to mention it, because I wanted to see if I might be in some kind of trouble.
> 
> There is a small Cafe in the town where I pick up my mail. The woman who runs it cooks some of the best grub I have ever gotten on the outside of. Every Sunday she puts on a big feed. It costs $15.00 for all you can eat. She serves this meal on those big stainless steel trays, like the ones we ate on at the mess hall when I was in the Army.
> 
> ...


Done with the crap and the exploitation of the kids. Well done. Nest time, kick him in the nuts so he thinks twice about groping a child


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

muleskinner2 said:


> Part of the problem is she looks like she might be 19 or 20 years old.


It's really not a problem because it's still unacceptable to paw female servers regardless of their age.


----------



## Kelly Craig (Oct 10, 2021)

Sexual assault OF A MINOR by any other name. . . .



wr said:


> Middle aged men should not be touching 14 year old girls and I doubt if he’s going to be too eager to mention anything about it.


----------



## Kelly Craig (Oct 10, 2021)

Therein lies the problem - too many think government agents ("the government") will take care of a problem. They either do not understand or do not know police, as said by the courts, and regarding the Public Duty Doctrine, owe a duty to everyone, therefore to no one in particular. 

Cops do not have to respond to complaints, UNLESS they give indication they will, or take custody of the individual, in which case a duty does develop.

Anyway, common sense goes out the window when government "is here to help." You see things like this plea bargained away. You hear things like, "the wheels of justice turn slow." Or just look up a bit of history on Hilly and this current administration. When done with that, see how many rapists, murders and other scum of society were let free long before they should have been.



no really said:


> Sexual abuse of a child should be everybody's call to action. If the slug was that blatant in a public place no telling how he behaves in private.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Kelly Craig said:


> Sexual assault OF A MINOR by any other name. . . .


That was pretty much my point too. The guy is also an opportunistic weasel in the sense that he carefully selected his victim, who was working her first job and unlikely to make much of a fuss, lest she alienate a customer or anger her employer. 

Even if he did think she was older, he still had no right to paw a woman without consent. Female servers are not public property for men to sexually assault anytime they feel like it. 

I'm not a big fan of the metoo movement but I am female and have found myself in similar situations over the years and it's damned uncomfortable.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

wr said:


> It's really not a problem because it's still unacceptable to paw female servers regardless of their age.


It isn't an excuse, but it is part of the reason. She doesn't look like a minor, and she was doing a job that minors typically don't do. It is unacceptable, and in a perfect world it would never happen. But we don't live in a perfect world. By the way, the age of consent in New Mexico is 14 years old. 

I am not trying to defend this guy, just pointing out facts.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

muleskinner2 said:


> It isn't an excuse, but it is part of the reason. She doesn't look like a minor, and she was doing a job that minors typically don't do. It is unacceptable, and in a perfect world it would never happen. But we don't live in a perfect world. By the way, the age of consent in New Mexico is 14 years old.
> 
> I am not trying to defend this guy, just pointing out facts.


That's all true but she didn't give consent to be pawed or patted and would only be relevant if she had pressed charges. 

Just because one works as a server does not give any unwritten or magical consent to be sexually harrassed.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

wr said:


> That's all true but she didn't give consent to be pawed or patted and would only be relevant if she had pressed charges.
> 
> Just because one works as a server does not give any unwritten or magical consent to be sexually harrassed.


I never said it did. And I took direct action to stop it. But that doesn't change anything. If you swim in the deep blue sea, you will encounter sharks. The alternative is to stay in the kiddy pool.


----------



## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> He was in a place of business and the owner (or manager or the girl) was the only one that had the legal right to deal with the situation. The guy could have sued the owner for any physical injuries he received from the restaurant's patrons.
> 
> I have no problem with them telling the guy to get out of the restaurant, and I understand the sentiment, but their actions could have led to legal trouble for the owner. That's why I said I would back up the owner, but I would not initiate a physical confrontation on my own as a restaurant customer.


A man committed criminal assault against a juvenile, so everyone should have looked the other way?


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

mamagoose said:


> A man committed criminal assault against a juvenile, so everyone should have looked the other way?


 There were five or six younger men in that dining room, and two old men stepped up. I am sixty five, and the other old man is over seventy. We were the only two who didn't look the other way.


----------



## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

HDRider said:


> Like everything else, two sides develop, two differing opinions emerge.
> 
> You did good Mule. If more people did good, there would be less bad.


Amen. And thanks from those of us who have been assaulted (many times over). One guy did end up in a court martial in a case against another woman where I was called to testify as to a report I had made against him. I'd never met the other woman or even heard about the case until my SSgt gave me papers to be at the JAG building. "All genders" (as humans are called today) need to keep their hands to themselves.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

mamagoose said:


> A man committed criminal assault against a juvenile, so everyone should have looked the other way?


Please tell me what I said that you arrived at that conclusion? I'm getting real tired of people making things up. I never said or suggested people should look the other way.

The waitress hit him over the head with a tray. Everyone in the restaurant is looking at him. The owner of the restaurant is responsible for the safety of the customers and especially the staff. In this case, even more so as the girl was working there as part of her homeschooling. The owner, supervisor, or senior waitress should have been out there handling the situation.

What I said was I would back up the owner if it was needed, but it was her legal responsibility to act. That's what I would have done. Other people could handle it as they saw fit.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

muleskinner2 said:


> There were five or six younger men in that dining room, and two old men stepped up. I am sixty five, and the other old man is over seventy. We were the only two who didn't look the other way.


I have a great deal of respect for anyone who doesn't look away when a young woman is being sexually harrassed.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

MoonRiver said:


> Please tell me what I said that you arrived at that conclusion? I'm getting real tired of people making things up. I never said or suggested people should look the other way.
> 
> The waitress hit him over the head with a tray. Everyone in the restaurant is looking at him. The owner of the restaurant is responsible for the safety of the customers and especially the staff. In this case, even more so as the girl was working there as part of her homeschooling. The owner, supervisor, or senior waitress should have been out there handling the situation.
> 
> What I said was I would back up the owner if it was needed, but it was her legal responsibility to act. That's what I would have done.  Other people could handle it as they saw fit.


If someone groped your wife or your daughter would you want her to stand up alone to one member of a group of men that may or may not have taken action against her? Would you want her to face off alone against a group of men while someone went running for the management? People have gotten stupid lately and no one knows where it would have gone if those good men had not interfered on her behalf.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

MoonRiver said:


> Please tell me what I said that you arrived at that conclusion? I'm getting real tired of people making things up. I never said or suggested people should look the other way.
> 
> The waitress hit him over the head with a tray. Everyone in the restaurant is looking at him. The owner of the restaurant is responsible for the safety of the customers and especially the staff. In this case, even more so as the girl was working there as part of her homeschooling. The owner, supervisor, or senior waitress should have been out there handling the situation.
> 
> What I said was I would back up the owner if it was needed, but it was her legal responsibility to act. That's what I would have done. Other people could handle it as they saw fit.




“What I said was I would back up the owner if it was needed, but it was her legal responsibility to act. That's what I would have done.” 

Thats a fair enough decision on your part. 



“Other people could handle it as they saw fit.”

They did, thankfully.


----------



## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Part of the problem is she looks like she might be 19 or 20 years old.


I wish waitresses of all ages would do the same when harassed, sadly they would lose tips and jobs. We need a little more vagina dentae (vaginas with teeth- assaulters/ harassers/ rapists afraid they might get killed or injured if they attack a woman) in the world. Bystanders who reinforce a woman's protests- or protest/ act even when the 'victim' does not- are a great help.


----------



## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

MoonRiver said:


> I bet once she hit him over the head with the tray, it was over. There is no way he would have continued that kind of behavior once he was the center of attention.


He still needed the punishment of being removed from the dining facility.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

@Jenn, you brought up a point I didn't consider. In most places a waitress would be in danger of losing her job if she retaliated against a groper. Waitresses have to put up with a lot of stuff that should be considered unreasonable but they have to suffer in silence if they want to kerp their jobs.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> Please tell me what I said that you arrived at that conclusion? I'm getting real tired of people making things up. I never said or suggested people should look the other way.
> 
> The waitress hit him over the head with a tray. Everyone in the restaurant is looking at him. The owner of the restaurant is responsible for the safety of the customers and especially the staff. In this case, even more so as the girl was working there as part of her homeschooling. The owner, supervisor, or senior waitress should have been out there handling the situation.
> 
> What I said was I would back up the owner if it was needed, but it was her legal responsibility to act. That's what I would have done. Other people could handle it as they saw fit.


I don’t think anyone is the slightest bit shocked by what you said _you_ would do. We’re just expressing our gratitude that the room wasn’t filled with a bunch of MoonRivers.

You’re correct that the girl reacted immediately and appropriately, but her reaction also changed the calculus of the situation, and she deserved for any and every adult immediately at hand and worth a damn, man or woman, to step in to her defense and get between her and the creep she just clobbered.

The creep’s initial action was an assault, but not one that would have injured her. Her (justified) reaction was one that could have injured him. This may have embarrassed him sufficiently to immediately defuse the situation, or the embarrassment may have caused him to violently lash out at her.

At that point, it wouldn’t matter if the owner was two tables over, talking to guests, the chief of police was at a table in the corner, the attorney general of the United States was up front paying his bill, the Dallas SWAT was lined up waiting their turn for the bathroom, and DevGru was crowded around the salad bar, if you were an adult, and nearer the situation than the aforementioned, and you chose not to act, _immediately_, you’re a disgrace and should be ashamed of yourself.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I don’t think anyone is the slightest bit shocked by what you said _you_ would do. We’re just expressing our gratitude that the room wasn’t filled with a bunch of MoonRivers.
> 
> You’re correct that the girl reacted immediately and appropriately, but her reaction also changed the calculus of the situation, and she deserved for any and every adult immediately at hand and worth a damn, man or woman, to step in to her defense and get between her and the creep she just clobbered.
> 
> ...


----------

