# Low line growth rates



## main_man (Jul 3, 2011)

Looking at running a small herd of low lines or percentage low line cattle as a sideline project. Wondering if anyone has any first hand experience or info on actual growth/weight rates etc compared to that quoted, what can be expected in terms of finishing time. As a second point anyone had any good low line crosses with other breeds??


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

NDSU has used Lowlines in their research herd, still do as far as I know. Should be a lot of info. on their web site. Also the ALR has their publication archived on their web site. www.usa-lowline.org


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## chronic66 (Feb 19, 2005)

I have an 17 month old black heifer bred to a lowline bull. Due the end of November. I too, want this to be the start of a little herd.


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

I ran a Lowline bull on Mainline Angus for several years. Lowline are simply just Angus that were selected for smaller frames. There is also a lot of variation within Lowlines. My bull was big...about 1600 lbs in his prime. He was a Doc Holiday son and was very calm even in old age. 

Anyway, the resulting crosses were typically stocky, fast growing, and thrifty. These crosses usually ended up being frame size 2 or 3....occasionally 4. Many of these crosses are now brood cows and they are much calmer than their Mainline dams.

On the other hand, I've seen Lowlines that are very small...Smaller than I would want to base my operation on. Make sure you get Lowline stock that meets your size needs.


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

In general when you talk about gain rates they are usually divided into 2 categories; Before weaning and after weaning.
A general rule of thumb with most breeds is that a commercial brood cow should wean over 50% of her weight at 270 days with normal inputs (grass, mineral, and water). That usually isn't hard, for most breeds and crosses, to achieve.
Where you start to see differences is after weaning. You can commonly see 1.3 lbs per/day, and I have seen some animals that gained 3.7 lbs. per/day. (Utah State University tests) The later is unusual. The input costs made it unfeasible to try to get rates that high. 
2.7 lbs. per day is good # to achieve in the finishing pen.
There is one other hurdle that you are going to have to cross. That is the smaller market share when you sell. If you are personally using your calves you may come out better. You will need lots of marketing and education, of your clients, to move your product.


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

CIW said:


> There is one other hurdle that you are going to have to cross. That is the smaller market share when you sell. If you are personally using your calves you may come out better. You will need lots of marketing and education, of your clients, to move your product.


This is a good point. The OP doesn't say what his goals are. With a lowline x, he will be able to raise more head per acre and will more than likely be dealing with calmer animals...However, if he is selling at auction raising more head/acre will be, at least in part, gobbled up by lower sale weight and/or discounting for smaller frame. I know agmantoo selects for a smaller frame size to maximize carrying capacity per acre, but he is selling calves/feeders not finished cattle.

If, however like me, the OP is direct marketing beef in whole, halves or quarters, a lower hanging weight for some or all animals might be desirable. I finish the majority of my cattle on grass alone at 26 or so months of age, and with these crosses I am still around 1000 lbs live weight most of the time.


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

Gravytrain,
Does the additional time that you are feeding your cattle cancel out the added carrying capacity that you get using lowlines?
I was looking at the NDSU website where they say they averaged $.92 on the steers in their study. That seems quite low, even in 2004/2006. Over those years, calves that I raised were around $1.06. My average included heifers which would lower the average #s a bit.
Please understand, I'm not saying that a person shouldn't use lowline genetics. I'm sure there is a place for them.
(Opinion) I can think of one off the top of my head. They would probably excel as a second year cross onto larger structured cattle like charolais or simmental, bringing their bone size down and their yield on the hook, up.
I was unable to find any specific #'s to support that though. 
There doesn't seem to be much of a market here for me to sell calves under 1100 lbs. It seems to go the other way. People are looking for 1270 to 1320 lbs.
I only sell live animals. I usually complete the transaction when I unload the animal at the butcher. When I divide the carcass I don't get paid for my time, certifications and the advertising that I have to put in to get it sold.


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

CIW said:


> Does the additional time that you are feeding your cattle cancel out the added carrying capacity that you get using lowlines?


I don't feed the additional time because they are Lowline crosses. I do this because I direct market well marbled grass finished beef from Lowline x cattle as well as fullblood mainline Angus...although the Lowline crosses seem to produce a superior grass finished carcass over regular Angus.



> I was looking at the NDSU website where they say they averaged $.92 on the steers in their study. That seems quite low, even in 2004/2006. Over those years, calves that I raised were around $1.06. My average included heifers which would lower the average #s a bit.


I can't really speak much to this as this isn't the way I market my cattle. I would not be surprised to see smaller animals taking a hit at auction. I get a premium price for my grass finished beef ($6/lb hw last year), but I have to feed hay for an additional winter. Calving season is in April/May and I take advantage of the spring flush to finish 2 year olds and process in late June or early July. I have a 2 year waiting list for new customers strictly from word of mouth...and I don't live near any population center. Lots of folks around me market freezer beef for $2-3/lb.

I do sell a few grain finished animals out of a different farm to customers that don't want to pay the premium of grass finished and I do finish those animals at around 18 months in Oct/Nov.



> Please understand, I'm not saying that a person shouldn't use lowline genetics. I'm sure there is a place for them.
> (Opinion) I can think of one off the top of my head. They would probably excel as a second year cross onto larger structured cattle like charolais or simmental, bringing their bone size down and their yield on the hook, up.
> I was unable to find any specific #'s to support that though.
> There doesn't seem to be much of a market here for me to sell calves under 1100 lbs. It seems to go the other way. People are looking for 1270 to 1320 lbs.
> I only sell live animals. I usually complete the transaction when I unload the animal at the butcher. When I divide the carcass I don't get paid for my time, certifications and the advertising that I have to put in to get it sold.


Lowline crosses have worked well for me to reduce frame size and produce a quality carcass on forage alone. These replacement brood cows don't need nearly as much winter feed and wean calves nearly as large as the fullblood Angus do. Take into account total profitability not just the sale price...the smaller framed brood cows might drive more to the bottom line depending on your operation.

http://beefmagazine.com/business/0301-growth-characteristics-important

http://www.pharocattle.com/philosophies.htm


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

A few random thoughts.

I have had just a couple cows over the years, including some lowline crosses. Have noticed lowlines of others that appeared fat. Especially on good pasture. I had a lowline/Jersey cow that for 11 months a year, I kept her calf on her and I milked her, and she never lost condition with just a pint of grain daily. So I figured straight lowline cows would get fat on good pasture without milking alot.

Which is one reason I went to smaller frame standard cattle - frame 2 or so. Pharo Cattle has smaller frame bulls that are very easy calving.
Serious grass fed beef producer I've read likes frame 3 to 4. Of course, smaller has advantages for small acreages. I've had people though tell me my 2 frame heifers are miniature. Small enough for me. Also gives me more options for breeding - more quality bulls available in standard sizes.

Also seems niche breeders less informed on quality issues like udders and feet. I had a daughter check out a big name lowline herd and udders were bad.

I can see using lowline on standard sized first calf heifers, but to consistently breed standard cattle with lowline, seems you are wasting potential. Big cows that eat more, having smaller calves is like hauling your groceries with a semi. People tend to forget about how much their cows are eating. I would rather breed smaller cows to a larger frame bull that is calving ease.

I have also become not a fan of black cattle due to more heat stress. Cattle are naturally hot and black doesn't help. So the heifers I have are white (British White X 1/4 lowline). I bred them to Beral of Wye black angus bull and got a couple steer calves that are really stout. Not to mention everyone thinks they're neat to look at.


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## main_man (Jul 3, 2011)

Firstly, thanks for the replies and info - all greatly appreciated. 
The operation would be on a smaller acerage (approx 60 acres) to start with and as has been pointed out having a small frame size animal would allow for increased carrying capacity. I'm thinking of a forage based system with out feeding extra grain etc, to rotationally graze the pasture in terms of managing the herd and forage. 
Like with anything you produce the key is to have a market ready. My initial thoughts were finishing the cattle to sell meat direct or to a local butcher/retailer who would pay a slight premium for the beef. 
Another option down the line could be to produce animals for the sale barn by crossing a percentage lowline with a more mainstream bull - aim being to get a decent animal that will finish well , hence be attractive to buyers. That's potentially way down the line of course. 
A key objective would be to select the right type of animal/cow to suit the system of course and as has pointed out there is much variation within breeds as against breeds! 
Interesting read from the links posted def 'food for thought'.


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## WC44 (Apr 6, 2016)

What is the best way to market lowlines? Direct sell or breed to percentage where you reduce cost bc of grass feeding and try to have some decent size where u don't take a big hit? Or sell as weaned? Other options? I am looking at starting my herd next year. Originally was thinking Lowline, been looking at other options, but keep coming back to Lowline. Possibly by angus heifers and AI Lowline. Just curious at my options for selling


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

WC44 said:


> What is the best way to market lowlines? Direct sell or breed to percentage where you reduce cost bc of grass feeding and try to have some decent size where u don't take a big hit? Or sell as weaned? Other options? I am looking at starting my herd next year. Originally was thinking Lowline, been looking at other options, but keep coming back to Lowline. Possibly by angus heifers and AI Lowline. Just curious at my options for selling


It's important to remember that Lowlines are simply smaller frame size Angus. They may range from slightly smaller than Angus to significantly smaller. 

If your goal is to reduce the frame size of commercial Angus heifers and breed in docility...then keeping the next generation of heifers for brood cows with frame scores of 3 or 4 makes sense. You should end up with a more thrifty, easy keeping cow, which will require less inputs and make you more money.

However, as has been explained previously, running large framed Angus cows with a Lowline bull (or AI'd to a Lowline bull) to produce a slightly smaller calf (or perhaps a much smaller feeder or finisher) year after year makes no economic sense. You'd be better off direct marketing purebred Lowline or running Lowline cows with a low birth weight mainline Angus (or other breed) bull.


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## WC44 (Apr 6, 2016)

What if you work it where ur keep your cows at 50% Lowline? Small enough to ease with calving but not tiny to get docked for size? Still grass feeding all the way through with no grain


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

WC44 said:


> What if you work it where ur keep your cows at 50% Lowline? Small enough to ease with calving but not tiny to get docked for size? Still grass feeding all the way through with no grain


That's basically where I am at. Of my 48 brood cows, I'm down to 5 full blood mainline Angus. Of those, only 2 are frame score 6/7...the others are 4/5. The rest are 1/2 Lowline 1/2 mainline Angus except for a few that are 1/2 Lowline 1/4 Angus 1/4 Sim or Devon or Tarentaise. Average size of the crosses is frame 3. They now run with a 1/2 Angus 3/8 Lowline 1/8 Tarentaise bull plus an unrelated 1/2 Angus 1/2 Lowline cleanup bull.

It depends what your goals are and what your market is. If you are direct marketing beef... I don't see the downside of a variety of sizes of finishers. If you are selling feeder calves or finished cattle I would select for replacement heifers on the larger size (say, frame size 4) of the crosses that are thrifty and have good conformation. Sell or eat the ones that don't cut the mustard.

Minimize inputs first...then think of how you can maximize outputs.

If you haven't already, read the rotational grazing sticky. I've gleaned some very good ideas from that thread over the years.


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

These are ribeyes from grass fed 1/2 lowline Butchered at 22 months. Also fed alfalfa (chaffhaye) for 6 weeks.
WE sell to the public 1/4 or 1/2's. I like the smaller portions and it is more affordable for some people to buy a 1/4 that is only in the 100lb range.
We really like the temperment of the lowline cross. The smaller size is also easier on the fences. 
Another large angus cow will go to the auction after we wean her calf. Looking forward to our whole herd being smaller and gentler.


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

Like the size of lowline cross


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## WC44 (Apr 6, 2016)

Those 1/2 lowlines look good. I'm really thinking that's the route I will go when I get my herd going next year


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## WC44 (Apr 6, 2016)

Hey Alaska, at what age do you breed your 1/2 blood Lowline heifers?


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

12 or more months.. I think the closer to 20 months the better. Be careful we are new to ranching. There are a lot more expierenced people on this site than myself. 
I did a fair amount of research before we decided on going in the lowline direction but are happy we did.
we are not making money at this point. but we are eating well and next year we may even make some money if our next draught does not start any time soon.


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## WC44 (Apr 6, 2016)

Thanks Alaska. How long u been in lowlines? I'm looking at going that route next spring. Size wise, how do your 1/2 lowlines compare to regular angus?


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

We have had our 3/4 bull for five years now and have also picked up a couple of 3/4 heifers two years ago. One of the heifers had a calf 2 months ago and the other will drop any day. Still in the learning stages of ranching. Which is one of the reasons we decided on down sizing the size of our animals. 
We like the size of the cuts of meat also. And people are not so sticker shocked when the hear the price of a 1/4.


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## WC44 (Apr 6, 2016)

What do you sell your meat for, if you don't mind me asking


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

$4.50lb hanging weight.


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## Blueridgeviews (May 3, 2015)

Alaska, 
Do you finish them on alfalfa, or just add some in? And did you see the alfalfa make any difference?

We just got our first low lines. This is our first experience with cattle so we wanted small, managable, and safe temperaments. We are starting with four purebred but unregistered stocker steers, and if all goes well, my husband wants to get breeding stock next year -- leaning toward the Reds because of the heat here in VA.

These lowlines are so sweet and gentle! I am sold on their temperaments. The only experience they had with humans was to be castrated, ear tagged and trailered. Not fun! But they warmed up to us right away, very curious about us, and we are giving them a little grain each day to get them so we can handle them.

Already some neighbor's and one restaurant is interested in buying the meat next year. We haven't even advertised any, just word of mouth about lowline meat.
We haven't tasted any yet, is it as tender and tasty as everyone says?
Thanks


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

WE give them all the hay they can eat the last three months and start adding in rations of Chaffhaye, a bagged alfalfa product that has some molasses mixed in with it the last two months. We start slowly and start upping the rations. It seems to perk up the appetite no matter the time of year. As you can see from the pics very nice marbleing and we are way happy with taste. We actually cut back after the first year, more fat than we preferred.


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## Blueridgeviews (May 3, 2015)

So technically with the alfalfa product are they still considered "grass fed" and not grain finished since the molasses isn't a grain?


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

_ dont worry about the label. We tell people what we feed._


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## Blueridgeviews (May 3, 2015)

Thanks for the detail on the alfalfa Chaffhay. So if we have customers who want grass fed beef, I am assuming that still qualifies as grass fed. Is it the alfalfa or the molasses that is creating the extra fat marbling?


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## Blueridgeviews (May 3, 2015)

Wow, the Chaffhaye looks great! Just what our health-conscious customers would want. Do you buy it in bulk or discounted price?
Thanks
http://www.newcountryorganics.com/s...ture-in-a-bag-100-hay-replacement-50-lbs.html


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

WE have a small herd so we do not buy it at bulk. But I might add just buying from the local feed store at $ 12 a bale it goes at least twice as far as a bale of hay. And there is little or no waste. I think the taste really spurs there appetite.

Here is Thunder 3/4 bull calf born this morning


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## Blueridgeviews (May 3, 2015)

Congratulations! Hope he lives up to his name.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Did chaffaye ever verify whether or not they were using GMO free alfalfa? I know a guy that was looking into using that, but was trying to stay within the gmo free label.


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## pfettig77 (Oct 14, 2014)

It is not, says their website:

http://chaffhaye.com/about/verified-non-gmo-alfalfa/

My question is how much better is it than a bale of dairy quality alfalfa?


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

pfettig77 said:


> It is not, says their website:
> 
> http://chaffhaye.com/about/verified-non-gmo-alfalfa/
> 
> My question is how much better is it than a bale of dairy quality alfalfa?


 I saw a lot less waste with the chaffhaye. Fed in a trough the cattle lick every bit up. With dry baled alfalfa a lot more hit the ground and it penciled out to be cheaper and easier to feed the chaffhaye.


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