# Single dog or duo



## PakistaniFarmer (Aug 22, 2011)

Which work better for a goat farm with some rabbits and chicken ?
Any suggestion. Goats are mostly intensive and allowed to graze some times


----------



## RJMAcres (Sep 9, 2009)

Depends on the predator load you have.
At our place, multiple dogs works better then a single by far.


----------



## PakistaniFarmer (Aug 22, 2011)

no predator may be thieves


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

2 is better then one. I wish I had 4.


----------



## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

How much land will they be protecting?


----------



## PakistaniFarmer (Aug 22, 2011)

over all would be 25 acre non fence

and can i have 2 females and a male or what


----------



## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

The land not being fenced is the problem. 25 acres isn't a very large area and the dogs will likely roam. They may decide that the area they partol is several times that large, leaving your land and roaming onto other people's land.


----------



## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Fowler said:


> 2 is better then one. I wish I had 4.


Two are happier than one too. That way they have a friend to play with. It also helps to prevent them from trying to play with the stock.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

mekasmom said:


> Two are happier than one too. That way they have a friend to play with. It also helps to prevent them from trying to play with the stock.



True so True.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> over all would be 25 acre* non fence*


It won't matter how many dogs you have because they won't stay there, and neither will the goats


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It won't matter how many dogs you have because they won't stay there, and neither will the goats


This is a very true and honest statement.


----------



## PakistaniFarmer (Aug 22, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It won't matter how many dogs you have because they won't stay there, and neither will the goats


What to do ? Fence an acre ? if yes then put dogs in the fence or out ?


----------



## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

If you want to graze the 25 acres, then fencing an acre to confine the dogs in won't do any good. You need to fence whatever you plan to graze.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Fencing is the biggest cost for your investment of small animals, the dogs must be within the fence with your livestock, the fence is to keep your livestock and dogs in, the dogs are to keep preditors out. Start small, fence off a couple of acres and build from there. Also start small with what ever you are going to raise. The more room you need the more fencing you will need.


----------



## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

25 acres is easy to fence.. use field fencing, several rows of hot wire, barbed wire and or a combination of all of them. this will help keep the predators out, the livestock in, and the dogs from roaming. Hot wire is amazing! these dogs will roam!!!! they are big and scary to outsiders.. the lawsuits will cost you everything if a dog attacks. the fence is to keep the dogs home!!!! why have dogs if not to protect what is at home? you will want to keep the goats in too! if they are out roaming then yes people will steal them and shoot the dog! fence, fence, fence! if all you can afford at first is a 1/4 acre then so be it! I would start with fencing around my home, barn, chickens and rabbits and an area for the goats.

I recommend 1 dog and when the dog is no less then 18 months old consider a second dog. I let the dog grow to around 3 years old before I personally bring in another dog.

Why? I want the dog trained for _____________ fill in the blank. If I have two puppies, they bond to each other and not to me, my family, the goats, the chickens, the sheep, the farm, the pasture, or ______________... again fill in the blank.

Now once the first dog has matured, knows its job... I can bring in a puppy and the now adult dog will help me train the new puppy.

I recommend opposite sex dogs. If you get two same sex, have at least one fixed, better to have both fixed. If only one is fixed then you have the one not fixed still aggressive toward the one fixed. Opposite sex fixed or not still have 'tiffs' but are over quickly and are only little tiffs.

If both dogs are intact, you have to be prepared to remove the female to a kennel while in heat. Building a kennel isn't hard and honestly, a good idea! Make it so you can add to it later on when you need to put the dogs up for what ever reason. If you are ever watchful, she only needs to be kenneled for a couple of weeks. 

If you have not been around LGD's, get 1 and be sure the breeder has temperament tested the puppy so you get the personality of the dog that fits the kind of job he/she will be expected to do. I do not recommend a highly aggressive dog for a first time owner, I also do not recommend a shy personality for a first time owner. Middle of the road personality, calm, kind of lazy is a good personality for a family that is looking for an all around farm dog that will protect everything inside the fence!

HTH


----------



## RJMAcres (Sep 9, 2009)

PakistaniFarmer said:


> no predator may be thieves


No fence ?
Could the stock be wandering off on their own ?

Dogs probably won't stay where they are supposed to without fence.

if 2 legged thieves, armed guard 24X7 would be best.


----------



## PakistaniFarmer (Aug 22, 2011)

BarbadosSheep said:


> If you want to graze the 25 acres, then fencing an acre to confine the dogs in won't do any good. You need to fence whatever you plan to graze.


I told u that we are grazing only occasionally not regularly so goats would be going outside when we harvest any crop to eat weeds and leftover


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

You can use portable electric fencing to contain the goats when they are outside their regular pen. One acre isn't very much room for a dog.


----------



## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

do you currently live in Pakistan? I have family in Lahore


----------



## PakistaniFarmer (Aug 22, 2011)

westbrook said:


> do you currently live in Pakistan? I have family in Lahore


Yes near multan


----------



## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

are you looking at the Vikhan or another breed?

it had not occurred to me that you were actually in Pakistan. Some of the information isn't going to make sense.

What are you farming and what kind of goats, chickens and rabbits do you have? I am especially interested in the type of rabbits you are raising. 

asa lama lakum


----------



## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

PakistaniFarmer said:


> I told u that we are grazing only occasionally not regularly so goats would be going outside when we harvest any crop to eat weeds and leftover


so during the times the goats are allowed to graze, will the dogs be with them? If so.....fencing is a must to keep the dogs with the goats. they WILL roam. that's just what they do.


----------



## PakistaniFarmer (Aug 22, 2011)

I am planning to make one goat operation. with some rabbits and chickens 
I would get some dogs but i am not sure how much would be enough 
Goats breed would be beetal and teddy 


westbrook said:


> are you looking at the Vikhan or another breed?
> 
> it had not occurred to me that you were actually in Pakistan. Some of the information isn't going to make sense.
> 
> ...


----------



## Faithful (Jul 15, 2011)

I agree with fencing first or the goats and dog or dogs will roam, I like more than one dog so they can work as a team.


----------



## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

this is the goat I want! http://lahore.olx.com.pk/goat-bakra-saan-iid-280276564

PF- both breeds are nice looking


----------



## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

westbrook said:


> this is the goat I want! http://lahore.olx.com.pk/goat-bakra-saan-iid-280276564
> 
> PF- both breeds are nice looking


That looks like a Nubian on some serious steriods lol. 

I have no clue what kind of fence is available there. You could get the underground dog fence that zaps them if they try to leave the area. 
If there is no road or neighbors close by I guess you can try to train the dog to know it's boundaries, but you would still need to fence it while training it. My neighbor never fenced his, he never ran away but he did chase my car on the driveway, he was an Anatolian. 
25 acres is not small for one or even two guardian dogs. 

What dog breeds do you have there? I would only get a dog of a true LGD breed to protect them. If one is not available near you then I would get a guard dog fenced off from the livestock, fenced so that any thieves would have to get into his pen and cross it to get to the animals


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

So to get this straight the job is protecting livestock from theft in Pakistan? What do your neighbors use there?


----------



## PakistaniFarmer (Aug 22, 2011)

There is no proper goat farm in my vicinity



Ross said:


> So to get this straight the job is protecting livestock from theft in Pakistan? What do your neighbors use there?


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

PakistaniFarmer said:


> There is no proper goat farm in my vicinity


Theft is theft you're dealing with Pakistan law regarding protection against such. What do others in Pakistan use? 

Here using a guard dog to protect property is a bit hazzardous legally. I think most lgd's here are meant to protect against wild animal predation not theft as such.


----------



## PakistaniFarmer (Aug 22, 2011)

Here people have a few goats or cattle so petty theft are some time happen the idea is dos will bark and make watchman attentive.



Ross said:


> Theft is theft you're dealing with Pakistan law regarding protection against such. What do others in Pakistan use?
> 
> Here using a guard dog to protect property is a bit hazzardous legally. I think most lgd's here are meant to protect against wild animal predation not theft as such.


----------



## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

Livestock Guardian in Pakistan ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikhan_Sheepdog

which is grouped into the Molosser class

http://www.molosserdogs.com/news.php

check out the category of breeds.. very interesting.

there are no photos of the Vikhan breen also called Chitral Watchdog

Pakistan also has a kennel club http://www.kcp.com.pk/



Pakistani Farmer - Which dog breed are you looking at to protect your farm?


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Maybe you don't need a livestock guardian, but a good watchdog. Many dogs will stay close to home and bark if there are intruders.


----------



## PakistaniFarmer (Aug 22, 2011)

May be . But I want a dog which dont harm goats and hunt chicken 



Maura said:


> Maybe you don't need a livestock guardian, but a good watchdog. Many dogs will stay close to home and bark if there are intruders.


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

So you're in Pakistan now looking to import or in America looking to return with a dog? Have you checked out the import rules? We've shipped dogs (and we don't anymore) to the middle east before and it got its quirks, its fairly straight forward, but there will be regulations, like import permits, vacination or quarentine requirements and sometimes fees or duties.


----------



## PakistaniFarmer (Aug 22, 2011)

my question was simple. I want to have a dog who would be interacting with goats and chicken and may be rabbits ...


----------



## OJ Rallye (Aug 4, 2005)

I try to have at least 2 GSDs. If I lose one, I still have one.
We did lose one just recently. We got Brodie from the humane society about 10 years ago. They said they thought he was 4-5 years old. After having him a bit, I thought he was older. Miah is 4 or 5 now. I'll start looking for another in the near future.


----------



## OJ Rallye (Aug 4, 2005)

PakistaniFarmer said:


> May be . But I want a dog which dont harm goats and hunt chicken


We got Miah when she was 4 months old. While learning she did hurt a couple of our birds. Now she has learned not to. Just minutes ago, I saw Miah trying to help my wife herd the ducks in.


----------



## saanengirl (Apr 7, 2009)

The most important thing is to have a dog that is raised with livestock and trained not to hurt them. You can either purchase a trained dog, or purchase a puppy and train it yourself. The best way to train a puppy is to have a mature trained dog to help you.


----------

