# Fish tails caused by something other than copper?



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Please discuss:

Have you read any info about the fish tail syndrome on goats (the tail tip goes bald) being caused by something other than copper deficiency? I absolutely *know* that mine are NOT copper deficient, but two goats have fish tails.

Needing brainstorming help!


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

Could it just be a combination of coat clipping and shedding?

When I clipped Cocoa in June she didn't have a fish tail, but then she shed out in July and it *looks* like she has a fish tail, but I highly doubt it actually is.


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## CJBegins (Nov 20, 2009)

Alice, my doe that developed "fish tail" actually had mites on the tip of her tail and lower legs. It filled back in after I got the mites under control.


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## dozedotz (Dec 12, 2012)

Earlier this summer or late spring there was a comment on this forum to that effect...can't remember who made it...about fish tail being caused by something else rather than lack of copper. I wondered about it then. I have two that are developing fish tails...the rest are not...all treated the same meds and food wise. I think I will treat for mites (haven't honestly seen any...maybe too small). Cylence? or is that just for lice?
Ivormectin? What say you?


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

I have been asking and looking for quite a while. I have 1 goat that has fishtail and if she's copper deficient, than she's got issues. She looks good otherwise, color, soft coat. Gets replamin weekly and has a high copper mineral. Haven't really found any good answers, though.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

I remember reading that the same symptoms of deficiency can be the same if toxic levels are reached


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I have goats that no matter if I give copper 2x per year or 3x per year, the fish tail does not go away. I stopped worrying about it because at the end of the day, fish tails do NOT affect their health or their productivity. Most people that worry about bleached hair coats from copper are wrong, IMO. 99% of the time if you look at the hair root, the newly grown hair is shiny and nice... but the TIPS are bleached. If it was copper, it would be bleached from the ROOT down, as it is affecting the synthesis of pigment AS THE HAIR GROWS. 

My alpines, which tend to have shaggier haircoats than my boers, turn brown and rough coated. When shaved, they are slick and shiny. During the winter, most of my goats have a coarser haircoat, and they get sleek and shiny in the summer. This is NORMAL. 

Me, I bolus 2x per year for the animals in production, pre-breeding and pre-kidding. For the pets, they do just fine on the loose minerals alone.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Zinc seems to be an issue too. In trying to fignure out one goat's skin issues, the mineral panel showed a low level of zinc. The doctor got a bolus for me that had a zinc, cobalt and selenium formula but nothing else. It didn't do anything for her skin issues, which turned out to be mange, but eliminated her fishtail.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

A good friend of mine who has spent a lot of time researching goats and their care (and I've never felt goats with better haircoat than hers) says zinc is usually low in thier diets and minerals. I would bet the rough haircoats are often zinc related, I agree.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Zinc and iodine are the two items I was wondering about.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

I have fish tails on two of mine and they get Replamin Plus like clock work. I'm stumped!


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## punchiepal (Oct 11, 2008)

I had a saanen that was zinc deficient. She would blow her whole coat in the middle of January. A few crushed zinc from Walmart seemed to do the trick.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

If your water is high in iron then it doesn't matter if you bolus, loose minerals or just the replamin some of it still isn't absorbed by the goat because Iron blocks the absorbtion of some things like copper.

I have a couple that I've noticed lately the hair is thin at the ends of their tails, not fish tails yet but still thinner than normal. They have good loose minerals & Replamin Plus weekly. I too think I need a source of Zinc & would love to find a cobalt block around to let them lick on a couple cays every few weeks but so far no one sells them locally.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Powdered cobalt supplement:

http://www.jollygerman.com/livestock/cobaltsulfate.shtml


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

What about kelp?


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I've been wondering about a different situation. (I know our water/soil is low in iron; so this is not causing deficiencies.) None of my goats ever had a fish tail...for years...until after I started feeding them BOSS. Now most of them show problems with their tails thinning; and I know they don't have mites. My guess is that the BOSS is inhibiting their intake/use of the copper (maybe even zinc) they get in their loose minerals. 

The loose minerals I have always used is "Golden Blend" from Hoeggers; and it contains a good balance of calcium to phosphorus, selenium:vit E with small amounts of zinc and copper, the copper being 1500 PPM. As mentioned above, this mineral is what I used for years, during which time I saw no evidence of problems in their tails. The only thing I changed awhile back was to introduce them to BOSS; so I'm just guessing this has something to do with the fishtails I'm seeing now as my water/soil contents have not changed.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Didn't read all the responses, but I understood fish tails could be worms too.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Never have heard that. Do you have a link?


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

Alice, are the two you are having trouble with darker than the others? Perhaps you've already considered it, but I read a while back that dark goats need more cooper than do other goats because it takes more copper to make the dark pigment (or something like that).


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

That would make sense!


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## coso (Feb 24, 2004)

Mine do this in the summer. I think it has to do with them laying on the packed dirt, or in the barn on the plywood floor and switching at flies !! They end up beating the hair off the end of their tails.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Never have heard that. Do you have a link?


Read it here in the past couple months. As I recall the idea was the worms caused a general poor condition and loss of hair at the tip was a sign of that. I;m still new to the copper idea and am reading up on it.


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