# growing 90% of your own food support group



## crwilson (Feb 9, 2005)

I am very interested in producing about 90% of my food this summer, and perhaps supplying about 75% of my winter food until next spring, when I can begin the process anew. I would just like to know if anyone else on here is interested in doing this. I know some of you already achieve this and beyond so would love to hear from you. We could support each other and help each other with our goals through communications on this website, check for holes in each others plans "make sure there are no obvious neccessities left out" etc. 

We could compile a food list with amounts that we can strive for, I know these are available on various websites but may need some tweaking for our tastes and growing conditions and what we have available, I currently have no fruit production except a small amount of grapes, so I wont reach my 90% fruit for another 4 or 5 years at least. 

Anyways I thought there would probably be several of you interested so let me know and what your ideas are.


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## Homesteader (Jul 13, 2002)

It's a good idea! I wonder if you could break it down into areas. Poultry, fruits, vegetables, herbs, beef, pork. Like for us, it's just the 2 of us, so if I figure we eat a whole chicken per week, I need 52 chickens, as an example.


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

That is my DESIRE... it is going to take awhile to get there though. I LOVE gardening but its in sand and its not very umm fruitful. I am buying 10 acres this year though with better soil. I won't be able to tackle it right away and turn it into a garden there but I will be able to take the heavy soil and clay from there and swap it with my sand for gardening today... and plant my fruit trees etc there to get established for food "tomorrow" I would love to be self sufficient in food except for a few things like tea, coffee and flour


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## donnam (Sep 27, 2005)

My suggestion would be to keep track of what you are eating now. A list of what you buy that you could eventually produce yourself would be a good starting point. If you garden, can you grow the herbs you use? Can you put a few tomato and pepper plants in flower beds as a supplement? After many years I know that we need one hog every year and a steer every 2 years. I can 65-75 quarts of green beans and the same with tomatoes each year. We have a few left each year but that's fine. Then I work on jams and sauces and the other things we like. Look at your grocery lists and register receipts and see what you can do where you are now. You don't necessarily need alot of land to get alot of experience. Good luck.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

I'm planning the same long term. Growing up we did about 50% of our food year round, that is all the garden veggies, but we bought meats, grains, and dairy.

I think the selections and amounts will vary greatly between families. There are differences in what grows well near you, what your family likes to eat, special dietary needs, etc... For example, I'm on a low carbohydrate diet, so I could buy all the grain I use, but I'm going to need a decent meat and high fiber veggie supply. A vegetarian family is going to need to do a lot of beans and grains to make up complete proteins.

If I wasn't going crazy with details on the farm purchase right now, I'd be spending a lot of time this winter looking at seed catalogs, hatchery catalogs, and breeder directories. Then I'd lay out my schedule of what needs indoor starting, planting, cultivating, harvesting, etc when, then my garden map. The schedule is important so you don't end up needing to slaughter two dozen chickens on the same weekend you need to can tomato sauce.

My mother kept really good records. She'd record each year how much seed she planted, how many transplants she put out, how much she harvested, which canned goods she made from it, and how much was left over at the next harvest time. From these records she was able to make a real good estimate of how much seed to plant each year and what to can from the produce. I plan to try this as well.


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## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

Great idea, Your right this takes a lot of tweaking  I ended up one year with so many green beans that my neighbors didnt even want any more. Their fist words to me became no more beans ound:


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

This is a great goal and I would be interested in following it.
BTW You can have a great amount of fruit this year if you plant berries now. Strawberries will produce for you this year, brambles will too although not at full tilt. Same with blueberries.


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## bassmaster17327 (Apr 6, 2011)

That is my goal but I rent garden space and it is only 20x60, I am not sure how much I could produce in that space. Last years garden was disapointing except for peppers. I raise rabbits for meat but most of them get sold and I keep a few chickens for eggs but I dont get ay eggs in the winter.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

I am headed in that direction. Now that we've moved to the farm, I need to expand the garden here, since I've lost one. We planted fruit trees, and will continue to plant. 

I want to build a pit greenhouse this summer. Hopefully, we can have lettuce in the winter. 

I buy my flour at the health food store. Other than that, we can raise at least 90% of our food. We have beef, duck, and chicken in the freezer now. We have honey from the hives. Going to re-vamp the strawberry beds this spring. I want to can more tomatoes, beans, and corn this summer. Onions! We go through a ton of onions, and the ones we grow are so much better. Will be putting up pumpkins again this year. 

When the cows come fresh, I'll raise pork. 

Looking for an old freezer to use as a root celler for the potatoes and onions.


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## Vydra (Jul 18, 2011)

I would also be interested in following this thread, although I would just be here to learn and support everyone.  
My own garden space currently is restricted to a small apartment balcony. Last year I managed to have a nice little herb garden and some marigolds. That was my first ever attempt at growing anything, so I felt pretty good about it even though it was so small. This year I hope to improve and expand with the herbs and try adding some veggies. We will see how it goes; fingers crossed! Haha


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Fascinating video:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCmTJkZy0rM[/ame]


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Books:

http://www.amazon.com/Mini-Farming-...-1&keywords=grow+vegetables+on+a+quarter+acre


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

I really like the title of this thread - I think the "support" aspect is really important.

For me, I like to envision growing/harvesting most of our food (based on calories AND nutrients as opposed to bulk weight), but I will be quite happy if 90+% percent of our food is from local sources. Local would mean the Rogue River Valley, in my case.

I have planted a pretty large diversity of trees/bushes/vines/herbs/annuals/groundcovers/tubers to cover different needs.

Oil: olive, hazelnut, walnut, yellowhorn, sunflower
Starch: chestnuts, potatoes, corn, sorghum, amaranth, sunchokes
Fresh fruit: many berries, early apples, pears, figs, peaches, cherries, figs, plums, pomegranate, etc...
Fruit for root cellar storage: late apples and pears
Fruit for freezing: berries
Fruit for drying: plums, figs, mulberries, jujubes, apples, pears, persimmons
Fruit for canning: berries, apples, pears, peaches
Fruit for fermenting: grapes, apples, berries, etc
Livestock feed: potatoes, corn, sunflowers, comfrey, autumn olives, black locust, mulberries and other excess/damaged fruit

My plantings here in Oregon are only 2 years old and have already started to give us some yield from many crops. With cooperation from the weather and diligence on our part, yields will get better each year. Those plants that do well without much in the way of needing extra care for diseases, pests, fertility or irrigation will be amplified through propagation.

I expect barter to be a large part of achieving our goal of food resiliency.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

So how do you figure what a percentage of your food is?


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

I believe we'd like to participate. Our goal is to grow at least 75% of our food this year. It could easily be more, but just as easily be less. 

Fruits will be short because we are just getting the orchard started and only have 1 peach tree and some strawberries right now. 

But I am expanding the garden, we will be getting a calf if not 2 within the next month ( they wont be ready this year , I know ), a couple of hogs for the Fall and we have fryers almost ready for the freezer now and will start some more in a couple months. Eggs are not a problem.

Anyway, count Karla and myself in and we will see how it all goes.


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## tentance (Aug 16, 2012)

Always trying to be more self sufficient and work with our strange climate!! This spring will be :
cowpeas, sorghum, tomatoes (maybe), more sweet potatoes, peppers (maybe), blackberries. 
with 2/10s of an acre we can never really be self sufficient when it comes to food, but that doesn't mean we won't try to work something out. i can't wait to hear what y'all are growing on where you live.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Callieslamb said:


> So how do you figure what a percentage of your food is?


Good question. You could count by mass, by calorie, by item... I don't think though that the exact numbers are that important. When I say 90%, I mean I only want to buy salt, sugar, spices, and the occasional treat. I don't want my daily meat, veggie, or dairy products to come from a store. I'm a long way off from dairy, but meat and veggie I think we can do within the next couple years.


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## Maverick_mg (Mar 11, 2010)

I'm in. We already grow for our winter veggie needs. This year I have been experimenting with 4 season growing and so far it has been working out well. I will continue to work on season extension. We have also started a root cellar as a means for storage.


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## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

Maverick_mg said:


> I'm in. We already grow for our winter veggie needs. This year I have been experimenting with 4 season growing and so far it has been working out well. I will continue to work on season extension. We have also started a root cellar as a means for storage.


Marerick - you spill the beans on what your doing and I will tell you what Ive learned. I got tomatoes all the way to Christmas! But my summer squash I planted in Sept in the greenhouse never flowered. I added lights and a solar set up for them. Moved my chickens into the greenhouse to increase the CO2 levels too. Definatly need help with getting my plants to flower. I can get really nice looking plants, but zip friut. BTW Im in Michigan too.


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## Bob Huntress (Dec 17, 2012)

Because so many different plants require such a varying scale of soils, and because no one person is even able to maintain the various plants and livestock, I have been trying to assemble a cooperative where each grows and produces a variety of crops and products and trade with each other. This way each is able to maximize their crops and livestock, while getting close to the 75% of their whole food supply.


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

I do not know about 90% but maybe 75%.
But I can always hope.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I'm in.


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

I am in. I think we probably are already at 75%, but would like more. We do fall short in the fruit department since our apple trees kicked the bucket, but we are planting berries this year and possibly more trees. We already have pears, figs and hopefully bananas. Our muscadines are just starting to produce and so we don't get too many of those, but more every year. 95% of our meat and veggies we grow and raise. Blessings, Kat


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## hmsteader71 (Mar 16, 2006)

I am definitely interested and will follow this.


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## Big Dave (Feb 5, 2006)

Where to start? Who is growing what? What is the climate and or Micro climate you find your growing area in? How are you watering? I am looking into leeks this season and finishing my hoophouse. I am definatly following this if I can find it again.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

ooooOOooOooOoOoooo
good thread! I'll be watching this one.
The problem I have here is that no one is really doing this and I need a mentor in grow veg and fruit.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm with Dave, post up in the right where you live,it really makes a diffrence for us to learn what others have to deal with as far as weather,seasons,soil,even the salt air matters.


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

Yep, you need to include at least the state where you live for the info to be beneficial to each other.


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## crwilson (Feb 9, 2005)

Ok I live in Central Nova Scotia near the tip of the Bay of Fundy. My growing area is listed as 5b however we see temps at -20F a few times through the winter and often get late frosts in june had a killing frost on june 24th two years ago. 
For me my 90% goal is a goal Iwould really like to reach, I will not be dissapointed at say 75% because thats a whole lot better than where I am now. I will be buying things like oil sugar salt etc, and some treats and going out for dinner on special occasions so just day to day I would like almost all of my real food to be homegrown, and I really want to cut out all the garbage in my diet that isnt real food. 
I am more of a planner and day dreamer than an actual doer, so by starting this post I hope to finally kick my butt in gear and fulfill some of my goals that homesteadingtoday has helped me dreamup in the last 8 years. Ive been planning so much since I joined here but am disappointed in my lack of progess I always say I will do this next year haha.

I will of course have to buy such things as animal feed this year because I have none stored up but would like to really start growing my own this year. I am not counting that as going against the 90% because I will be raising the chickens and hens myself, and either free ranging them or in a chicken tractor. 

Im really going to concentrate on food that stores well such as beans, peas, squash, turnips, cabbage, and of course tomatoes because of how much they can be usend in and processed into delicious meals, for me I love homemade tomato soup, and will probably make gallons. 
For now I garden at my parents place which is about 8 miles away, as I own a condo with my wife, and it only has a tiny back yard however my parents gave me 14 acres on the same road they live on , I may do most of my gardening and farming there this year it is currently all pasture. 

Here is a link to some gardening I did two and three years ago I have no pictures from this past year. http://postimage.org/gallery/6264kotq/


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

tailwagging said:


> The problem I have here is that no one is really doing this and I need a mentor in grow veg and fruit.


Check to see if your local cooperative extension has a master gardener program. They often have classes available to the public, and a help line.


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## crwilson (Feb 9, 2005)

I found this food storage calculator online, not sure how accuarte it is and obviously some things are left out http://www.thefoodguys.com/foodcalc.html . I have no affiliation with the lds church, just this is a neat calculator to help guide us.


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## Maverick_mg (Mar 11, 2010)

janetn said:


> Marerick - you spill the beans on what your doing and I will tell you what Ive learned. I got tomatoes all the way to Christmas! But my summer squash I planted in Sept in the greenhouse never flowered. I added lights and a solar set up for them. Moved my chickens into the greenhouse to increase the CO2 levels too. Definatly need help with getting my plants to flower. I can get really nice looking plants, but zip friut. BTW Im in Michigan too.


We are using Eliot Colman's methods. We are growing in raised beds in a high tunnel. We planted radishes, carrots, bak choy, turnips, kale, swill chard and beets. When it gets too cold a frost cover gets put on top of the beds and this, so far, seems to keep the temp in the beds above freezing. So stuffs growing, it's just really slow. As for flowering, we are having a similar issue in the main greenhouse that we sometimes heat to a whopping 38ish, just so the hoses don't freeze.
I picked green house verities so I wouldn't have to worry about pollination, but we are having difficulty setting flowers. The peas I planted end of September just now flowered. But it's not a lot of flowers and there is no rhyme or reason for how they are flowering. I think it may be a nutrition issue, as they are growing well and large. I keep meaning to check the nitrogen levels but haven't had time yet.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Flowering can be related to daylight hours. Check to see if those are long day or short night plants. If short night plants, a short lighting period in the middle of the night may help blooming. If long day, you'll need longer lighting periods to extend the day after dusk.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

crwilson said:


> I found this food storage calculator online, not sure how accuarte it is and obviously some things are left out http://www.thefoodguys.com/foodcalc.html . I have no affiliation with the lds church, just this is a neat calculator to help guide us.


I would be miserable on that diet. I'd shrink the grains, legumes, sugars, and processed oils, up the veggies, add sizable quantities of butter and lard, and of course, add meat.

LDS is coming from a prepper mentality, I'm coming from a high quality affordable food mentality, I've got no problem with keeping a freezer full of meat as part of my plan. Also, I have the space to grow meats humanely, so I don't see why I shouldn't.


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## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

dlskidmore said:


> Flowering can be related to daylight hours. Check to see if those are long day or short night plants. If short night plants, a short lighting period in the middle of the night may help blooming. If long day, you'll need longer lighting periods to extend the day after dusk.


 I did put light in to extend daylight hours [red and blue] Didnt know a thing about short day verses long day plants. Where would this info be? On the seed package???

Already Ive learned something from this group


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## Homesteader (Jul 13, 2002)

janetn I know there are short and long day onions, but can't recall what other plants are like that. Update, here's a nice link:

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/gardening/what-are-short-day-and-long-day-plants


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## crwilson (Feb 9, 2005)

dlskidmore said:


> I would be miserable on that diet. I'd shrink the grains, legumes, sugars, and processed oils, up the veggies, add sizable quantities of butter and lard, and of course, add meat.
> 
> LDS is coming from a prepper mentality, I'm coming from a high quality affordable food mentality, I've got no problem with keeping a freezer full of meat as part of my plan. Also, I have the space to grow meats humanely, so I don't see why I shouldn't.


I was only using that as a basic idea of how much food one would actually need to grow to get near the 90%. Just so people could see in pounds how much food we actually eat in the run of a year "more so myself because I didnt really have an idea". I will also deff. be adding much more meat to my diet as well which will be home raised. I also dont plan on consuming that much sugar or processed oils. Thanks for bringing that to my attention


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## Vickie44 (Jul 27, 2010)

I am probably around 75% ,I love looking in the pantry and seeing mostly home canned items. I am very interested in extended growing seasons, root cellaring and smoking / curing meats for preservation. Put a pig in the freezer this year and am in on beef but would like to increase my skills as far as being independent of freezer. Should be fun to discuss and keep track of


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## crwilson (Feb 9, 2005)

In the summer and fall I like to juice some of my extra vegetables, does anyone know if you can freeze it or can it? I think this would be something good to have on hand im sure its possible especially if you have tomatoes in it etc, but i wonder about like fruit and berry juice and kale etc.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

There is a book, Preserving Food without Freezing and Canning. Good for other techniques.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

crwilson said:


> In the summer and fall I like to juice some of my extra vegetables, does anyone know if you can freeze it or can it? I think this would be something good to have on hand im sure its possible especially if you have tomatoes in it etc, but i wonder about like fruit and berry juice and kale etc.


Yes, I cann a verson of V8 juice.If you want to add other veggies you can. The thing is ,you will have to make sure your juice is still acidic or sweet enough that water bath canning is enough. If it's not,you will have to pressure cann it. I make plenty of Concord grape juice,very easy. Fill a quart jar with 1 cup of grapes,1/3 cup sugar and fill with boiling water,seal. Done this way with pie cherrys is the best juice I've ever had. A new one for me,was white grape and pear juice. I did not like the 2 diffrent kinds of white grapes I planted, good for Dry Wine, which I'm not crazy about makeing. The grapes themselves are not very sweet,so alot of sugar is needed to make wine. This year,I'm makeing rasins out of them. I figure dryed,they will condense the bit of sugar and flavor that they did have.


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## Treewhisper (Nov 24, 2010)

"So how do you figure what percentage of your food is at 75 or 90% self sufficiency?" I simply look at my food bill! 

Forget calories, LDS calculators, etc....i look at before and after spending. Once everything has been put up, canned, dried, cured, frozen etc then i compare my grocery bill. When the only things i have to buy is coffee, personal hygiene stuff and chocolate (gotta keep the little woman happy) then i know ok my food bill has now dropped by so much percent.

I believe strongly in bartering. I trade chicken, eggs, rabbit and honey for pork, beef, lamb and fish. Even though i dont have the space to grow large animals i still consider this as being self sufficient.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

dlskidmore said:


> Check to see if your local cooperative extension has a master gardener program. They often have classes available to the public, and a help line.


We did. we are "MGs" but it was mostly geared at flower and pretty trees growers and only 2 hours of veg and 2 of how to spray your fruit trees
none on hoop house and the like.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

tailwagging said:


> We did. we are "MGs" but it was mostly geared at flower and pretty trees growers and only 2 hours of veg and 2 of how to spray your fruit trees
> none on hoop house and the like.


If you can grow flowers, you can grow veggies. You just need to learn about more pests that only affect certain plants. 40% of what you need to know is on the back of a seed packet. 40% is general good gardening practices like soil improvements and watering schedules. You're mostly there...


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

The hardest part of calculating food usage by anything but budget is the measuring. I can buy a 5 lb sack of potatoes 10x a year, and know I've got 50 lbs per year, but harvesting one row in a moderate year, I might not have a clue how many pounds that is, and mine have a bit more dirt on them so they weigh heavy anyway...


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

We are in zone 8, central Alabama. We grow biodynamically with deep beds wide enough to reach the middle from each side. We never buy vegetables from the grocery but have bought corn when our corn crop failed from the farmer's market. We don't eat much corn so didn't have to buy a lot. Typically a grocery store trip for us is for the following things: olive oil, coconut oil, coffee, tea, sugar, flour, spices, and some fruit. We are definitely short in the fruit department. We had two apple trees, but they were ancient and finally died. We have pears, figs, muscadines and strawberries. We typically get our blackberries and blueberries from a u-pick farm nearby. We used to have wild blackberries, but since we have had goats for several years most of those are gone. Most of our meat comes from the farm. I buy a couple turkeys a year from the store and a couple of chickens from the store. We raise rabbits, goats and pigs. When we replace laying hens the old ones become stew meat. We also hunt so venison is typically our beef, unless I trade some pork for steaks. Looking this year to raise more to feed the livestock.


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

dlskidmore said:


> The hardest part of calculating food usage by anything but budget is the measuring. I can buy a 5 lb sack of potatoes 10x a year, and know I've got 50 lbs per year, but harvesting one row in a moderate year, I might not have a clue how many pounds that is, and mine have a bit more dirt on them so they weigh heavy anyway...


Five pounds of taters would always fit in the same sack. So ya could estimate that way for volume.

I do wonder what that caculator was talking about? Sure seems ridiculously low on some and very high on others.

I am still a rank beginner having no idea what I am doing yet. I do know I need to be much better at watering though.


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

As far as where we are located, that would be West of San Antonio, TX and on the extreme Northern edge of the Chihuahuan Desert. My rainfall ranges from a couple of inches to 40 plus.

As far as planning, we figure how much of something we would eat in one meal and package accordingly. The we figuire how often we would eat that item and try to put up that amount and some extra .

Chickens we raise 25 at a time and start a new batch to come off before we eat up the last batch.

A hog a year but it could be 3 in 2 years. Like I said earlier, we are going to raise a steer, but that wont be in the freezer for a year plus.


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

Does bartering count?
I have milk cheese and yogurt but no honey. My friend has honey but no milk.

We grow all our veggies, Buy zero milk, cheese, yogurt. We butcher our own chickens and beef. We have butchered a few hogs but have not in a few years. 
have some blueberries, lots of blackberries and a few apple, pear and peach trees, some are very young.

This season we will work to grow a small patch each of oats, wheat and barley.
Planted them last year. They came up nice ,I am sure the deer loved them.


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## Tana Mc (May 10, 2002)

We have been working towards this for many years but.... life gets in the way sometimes--jobs, babies, moves, illness and currently a horrendous drought.

I think that 90% would be very ambitious for us but after thinking about it, I am really not sure how much we already produce ourselves. I have the same question as Steph---- does bartering count? 

Currently we raise almost all of our milk, meat and eggs plus a big chunk of our veggies. I have strawberries, black berries producing but lack of water made the yields less than impressive. There are young apple, peach, and pear trees started, figs, grape vines and blue berry bushes as well. 

I milk both goats and cows and make cheese when I can fit it in. We hunt and process our own deer. We do have a large pond to fish but I am not a big fan of eating them. 

My husband manages a large farm as his day job and part of our payment is beef and pork. 

I used to get wheat straight from the combine when our neighbors harvested but we moved so I lost that source. 

I think more than anything, I am going to make a conscious effort to do more but just as important--- keep track of it so I have more than a general idea of what we are producing.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

dlskidmore said:


> If you can grow flowers, you can grow veggies. You just need to learn about more pests that only affect certain plants. 40% of what you need to know is on the back of a seed packet. 40% is general good gardening practices like soil improvements and watering schedules. You're mostly there...


What I need is to find out what heritage cultivars work best HERE and when to plant.
when to start in hoop. when to take out to transplant.......
local stuff.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

This photo is from Spring 2012

The top two rows, I want to add (2) beds at the end of each row, and the third row, I want to add 1 more bed, make a total of 20--10x3 raised beds.
To the left, of the last row.....there is about the same amount of space fenced in that you can't see as the raised beds are in. 
I also have extra fencing and posts to make the garden area larger if I want.

The main thing I grow and can are tomatoes. Last year was a total bust (drought and depression) so I didn't get one jar filled. This year I want to attack this like a lion!!

I don't know what to do.
I am not sure how to get the "most" out of what I have.
I am going to start composting this year...
I would LOVE to grow 75% of our food....ultimately 100%

I sure would love some ideas.
I am in Zone 5 Central Indiana.
There is NO wind break for this garden.
It is 100% sunshine from about 9am on.
It only gets sunrise shade.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

this is the closest to a mentor that I can get here. so that is where I started.
they also have these books for other states.
http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Carolin...2&sr=1-12&keywords=Vegetable+Gardening+Guides


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> This photo is from Spring 2012
> 
> I don't know what to do.
> I am not sure how to get the "most" out of what I have.
> ...


Beautiful garden! 

It looks like you have more than enough sun, which is great. 

I would start planting around the edges (fenceline). Grapes, hardy kiwis, runner beans, limas, passionflower, hops, vetch etc... At the base of the fence, I would plant comfrey and herbs like dill, fennel, savory, etc....

If it is possible to add a second row of fencing outside the other, you can create a "moat" to run chickens or ducks. The birds may help reduce any insect issues and can make easy use of any garden waste.

I would also plant nitrogen fixing shrubs that can be kept small, such as goumi and siberian pea shrub. Autumn olive works well for us, but can be invasive in your part of the country. If it is already in your area, it probably can't hurt to have improved varieties. 

If possible, I would put the grass to use by bagging extra cuttings and using it for mulch or compost. If the woods in the background are available to you, the leaves, branches and rotten logs all can bring more organic matter into the garden to help you withstand drought.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

tailwagging said:


> What I need is to find out what heritage cultivars work best HERE and when to plant.
> when to start in hoop. when to take out to transplant.......
> local stuff.


Do you know your last frost date? Around here (western NY) it's memorial day.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> ...
> I am not sure how to get the "most" out of what I have.
> ...
> I sure would love some ideas.


I would take out the grass between the beds and put in either slow breakdown mulch like wood chips, or a living mulch like clover that will add nitrogen to the soil instead of using it. Some of your plants put down roots below the level of your raised beds and share nutrients with your pathways.

It looks like a very easy to use layout for a hand-tool garden.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

steff bugielski said:


> Does bartering count?


We're just in this for fun, so it counts if you want it to!  Personally, I wouldn't count it, because buying stuff at the store is an advanced form of bartering, so everybody that works for a living already barters their labor for cash, and cash for 100% of their food.

Is your goal to grow it yourself?
Is your goal to get your food locally?
Is your goal to get your food from the second economy and not use cash?
Is your goal to get food raised in the way you want it to be raised?
Is your goal to save money/resources?

The percentage is just a qualitative indicator of how close you are to the intrinsic goal. If the food you got meets the intrinsic goal, it counts as part of your goal percentage.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

dlskidmore said:


> Do you know your last frost date? Around here (western NY) it's memorial day.


average here is April 15

first frost Oct 1


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## siletz (Oct 5, 2010)

This is our goal as well. Each year we make an effort to produce more of our food - both people food and animal feed. Each year we also try to plant a new perennial food source, like fruit trees, berries, nuts, etc. As far as food production, one of the best things we've invested in is a greenhouse. It keeps us in fresh greens all winter and helps us grow warm loving plants like peppers and cukes in the summer.


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## PrairieBelle22 (Nov 17, 2006)

East central Oklahoma. Zone 7
I'm in and so love this thread. DH and I set a goal of raising most of our own food this year. We currently raise grassfed longhorn beef, chickens for eggs, and garden. This year DH is more on board with the garden and we are increasing its size. We just planted some fruit trees and vines this passed fall we also will be starting our beekeeping efforts this year. 

Everyone's preferred diet varies so your choices and quantities will vary. We made a menu and went from there. We excluded things that we would have to buy , like salmon, and replaced it with catfish or bass, etc. We set a goal to learn how to make things like pasta. We plan to build a solar dehydrator this year and to learn how to cure hams and such.

So much to do!

Belle


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## Vickie44 (Jul 27, 2010)

Last nights dinner was Pork chops ( raised here ) , Corn pudding ( my canned corn and eggs , milk and cream from farm down the road ) and my canned applesauce. My goal would be my own stuff but I am ok with local and bartered for .


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## Vickie44 (Jul 27, 2010)

Laura love your garden . Heres mine.


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## crwilson (Feb 9, 2005)

I have never raised chickens myself before but have helped with my brothers and my dads, is it easier to raise more at once and put them in the freezer or raise smaller amounts multiple times a year? space is not a problem so raising a large amount is doable in that sense. Would just like to hear suggestions from a few people who have done it both ways. I will probably start off with 25-30 just to learn with. Also is weather a problem for anyone, is it easier to raise chicks in the early spring vs later summer etc.
Thanks Rick


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## Wm.Mike (Aug 25, 2012)

Check out www.backyardchickens.com. Great info on raising meat birds and for eggs.


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

It appears to me we have plenty interested in this, so, how are we going to proceed ?

We will be planting stuff in the garden this weekend and will continue for the next 3 months. Will also be butchering fryers starting this weekend. Milk and yogurt will start probably April. And we are getting eggs aplenty right now.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

tailwagging said:


> average here is April 15
> 
> first frost Oct 1


So rule of tumb, if it's green you can plant a little before that, if it's a fruit you want to wait after that. So your peas, your broccoli, etc are slightly frost tolerant, but your tomatoes and peppers need to be frost free. If you're planting seed directly you can afford to bet this is an early year and replant if necessary, if you're buying transplants you want to wait or use a row cover to protect them from a surprise late frost. The seed packet will often tell you to plant after all risk of frost is gone, and to start seed indoors x weeks before that date. In my climate, hoop houses are not warm enough for germination, but they can help when the seedlings in the house get too big, and it's starting to warm up outside anyway. You can look up germination temperatures for each variety you are planting and get a soil thermometer if you don't have local advice on timing of planting. The type of hoop house and sun exposure will affect the temp of the soil inside.


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## Seeria (Jul 21, 2006)

Love this idea. Maybe next year I'll be able to join in as this year I'm buying land so won't have time to get things planted. Luck everyone!


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## HilltopDaisy (Feb 26, 2003)

BobbyB said:


> It appears to me we have plenty interested in this, so, how are we going to proceed ?
> 
> We will be planting stuff in the garden this weekend and will continue for the next 3 months. Will also be butchering fryers starting this weekend. Milk and yogurt will start probably April. And we are getting eggs aplenty right now.


I'm so envious! I have to wait 3 months to plant so much as a seed in a pot!

Well, why not. I certainly can try to grow a higher percentage of what I eat, but I think it will require an awful lot of discipline on my part. I'm getting a bit lazy in my old age. I'm looking forward to following this thread, seems it will challenge me to work towards being a better gardener/homesteader.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

BobbyB said:


> It appears to me we have plenty interested in this, so, how are we going to proceed ?


On my part, I intend to proceed slowly. 

I'm guessing some people will want to post more often about their progress than others. I'll probably put specific projects/problems in their own threads but try to give a year plan and year result post here.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I love this idea! Weve thought about this sort of thing for a long time. Im for sure in. But it will be a challenge since we are moving this year. My plans for gardening this coming year are very limited. Does buying form your neighbor count? We buy our raw honey from a local beekeeper and when my goats are dry, we get raw milk on a cow share from a local farmer also.

I think I am going to go make a list now.


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

dlskidmore said:


> On my part, I intend to proceed slowly.
> 
> I'm guessing some people will want to post more often about their progress than others. I'll probably put specific projects/problems in their own threads but try to give a year plan and year result post here.


I guess I should have asked about posting. Do we want a community thread to post our lists and what we are doing to get there, individual threads for the same or what.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

dlskidmore said:


> So rule of tumb, if it's green you can plant a little before that, if it's a fruit you want to wait after that. So your peas, your broccoli, etc are slightly frost tolerant, but your tomatoes and peppers need to be frost free. If you're planting seed directly you can afford to bet this is an early year and replant if necessary, if you're buying transplants you want to wait or use a row cover to protect them from a surprise late frost. The seed packet will often tell you to plant after all risk of frost is gone, and to start seed indoors x weeks before that date. In my climate, hoop houses are not warm enough for germination, but they can help when the seedlings in the house get too big, and it's starting to warm up outside anyway. You can look up germination temperatures for each variety you are planting and get a soil thermometer if you don't have local advice on timing of planting. The type of hoop house and sun exposure will affect the temp of the soil inside.


Thank you.
already got a soil thermometer =)


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## Big Dave (Feb 5, 2006)

So I am planning on what to grow as we speak. Four I know of square foot gardens for the kitchen. I want to plant okra and leeks for the cash crop, but that is another project. I am growing in a soiless medium(wood chips) with Llama poo and LC1. Still planning on what to plant in the square foot gardens. I am doing also 4 square foot herb gardens. I want to be self sufficient and get past break even point.


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

This year we are making more areas to increase the growing area of the garden. I am moving slow growing things like carrots and beets to raised beds which will be on the concrete around the pond which is in the center of the garden. Last year we raised peanuts and I am not sure if we will do that again. They took forever to grow, took up a good deal of space, and I didn't really know whether they were ready for harvest or not and some had already started making new plants. I think this year we are growing spring oats where we grew peanuts this year. We are making a new area for corn and will also grow pumpkins in with the corn. We plan on growing more sweet potatoes this year and have started working on a huegulkultur bed underneath a pine tree for herbs and possibly strawberries. Even though it is under a pine it gets plenty of sun because of the direction of the rising sun. We have another un-used area in the garden that we are fencing off and plan to run the pigs through this spring and then put in long bio-dynamic beds for a cool season grain in the fall. Most of our goal is to grow more to be able to feed the livestock and grow more variety than we have. We are also going to be planting berry bushes this spring to increase our fruit potential as we are sorely lacking in that area. We will start planting in a couple of weeks and right now we are just making sure that all the mulched areas are well covered so that we don't have to worry about that while planting. Blessings, Kat


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

Whisperwindkat said:


> This year we are making more areas to increase the growing area of the garden. I am moving slow growing things like carrots and beets to raised beds which will be on the concrete around the pond which is in the center of the garden. Last year we raised peanuts and I am not sure if we will do that again. They took forever to grow, took up a good deal of space, and I didn't really know whether they were ready for harvest or not and some had already started making new plants. I think this year we are growing spring oats where we grew peanuts this year. *We are making a new area for corn and will also grow pumpkins in with the corn.* We plan on growing more sweet potatoes this year and have started working on a huegulkultur bed underneath a pine tree for herbs and possibly strawberries. Even though it is under a pine it gets plenty of sun because of the direction of the rising sun. We have another un-used area in the garden that we are fencing off and plan to run the pigs through this spring and then put in long bio-dynamic beds for a cool season grain in the fall. Most of our goal is to grow more to be able to feed the livestock and grow more variety than we have. We are also going to be planting berry bushes this spring to increase our fruit potential as we are sorely lacking in that area. We will start planting in a couple of weeks and right now we are just making sure that all the mulched areas are well covered so that we don't have to worry about that while planting. Blessings, Kat


That is similar to some of what I am doing. I want to plant a bunch of corn. SO to utilize all the area, I am going with the 3 sisters planting. Pole beans along with winter squash and pumpkins.


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## PrairieBelle22 (Nov 17, 2006)

Good discussions! 

I have been slowly changing my family's diet to include only what we can grow ourselves. Anyone else do anything like that? I found we eat healthier and better when we do that.

Also we should name ourselves here. Something like this:

The 90% club
Or
The Food Sovereignty Support group
Or
Something so if we start a companion thread we can do a shout out in the subject line. just a thought.

Belle


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

I think you all are on to something. When I was trying to loose weight I felt the best way to go was a buddy.
It keeps you motivated and there is always a new idea or way to remedy a problem.

Maybe we can handle it like the singles forum.

I would love to see pics of every one's garden, a list of what each is growing for that season. That would lead to discussions about the individual varieties as well as any problems or failures.
As this grows, next year there will be incentive to increase each ones harvest.


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## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

Somebody iis going to have to tell me in very very simple steps how to post pictures eep: 

This is a great idea and its really garnered a lot of interest. 

For the name I vote for the 90%ers.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I can give everyone a little hint on "LDS" food calculators. They weren't meant as a guide for daily food calories. The original calculators put out by the church were meant as a guide to preserve life ONLY. Today, the LDS church doesn't not "put out" a food calculator. All the foods recommended on the original calculators were staples meant for long-term storage. Easily picked up and moved. Perhaps in case the church members had to pick up a leave before the mobs came or something? They aren't good for calculating what percent of your diet you are producing yourself.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

PrairieBelle22 said:


> Also we should name ourselves here. Something like this:
> 
> The 90% club
> Or
> ...


Perhaps we can each start a thread logging our individual efforts, and post a link to our individual threads here in the group thread?


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## canadiangirl (Jul 25, 2004)

I used to be up around 75% but backed off due to time constraints over the last 2 years. I am aiming to be up around 75% again this year. Hi crwilson- I'm pretty close to you I think- I'm on 7 acres in the Falmouth area : ) I do my chickens all at once and get the later delivery dates (June)from the feed store since we often get chilly temps till then and also the gardens are going during their growth period and the weeds are more appreciated : ) 
My big concentration this year is on my hoop house going in so there will be more Fall/Winter items.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I'm listening to podcasts and reading about permaculture. Are any of the folks here interested in hugulkultur and plantings that aren't in rows?


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I'm listening to podcasts and reading about permaculture. Are any of the folks here interested in hugulkultur and plantings that aren't in rows?


Here are a couple links to hugelkultur posts on my blog:
http://wellheeledhills.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/hugelkultur-beds-part-i/

http://wellheeledhills.wordpress.com/2011/04/08/hugelkultur-part-2/

After establishing the orchard, we've moved on to the kitchen garden beds. Each bed is excavated down ~12 inches, then backfilled with a layer of wood chips up to 6 inches thick. Rotted wood, leaf mould and our gravel/clay loam soil is sifted and the fine material is used to bring the level back up above ground 3-4 inches on average. The beds were mostly planted in legumes for the first few months of growth. Since then, greens, beets, herbs and other plants have done quite well. 

I thought I had a post on the blog regarding the establishment of the garden beds, but I don't see it. have to fix that.


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## sherry in Maine (Nov 22, 2007)

I will join in... last year planted stuff I knew would grow, plus a couple of extra 'fun' things that I wanted to just try to see if I could grow in Maine.I want to moniter this thread, and learn, too.

There were super epidemics (right word? dont know) of one kind of pest after another. Fought them by natural home remedies, store stuff and chemical stuff. Get rid of one pest, another would show up.
The two things I had initial success with were 2 sets of seedlings that popped up in the compost pile . . . . I planted them in the garden, and they did well,while all the others were being eaten by bugs. Then when the bugs finished everything else, they came for thse 2 things (I didn't know what the seedlings were, just knew I'd eaten them sometime that winter and tossed the seeds into the pile) but I got a few good hubbard squash and cantelope (!) from them before they yielded to the bugs.) I talked to a lady from the coop and she said 'do you know why those 2 succeeded? Because they grew in the compost pile; you seeded the others before the ground was warm enough' I am sure she was right; this time, I will use a soil thermometer.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Maybe the mod can make the '90% club' a sub forum up there with market gardening. Mod?


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Are any of the folks here interested in hugulkultur and plantings that aren't in rows?


I've read a bit about it. Hugulkultur seems like a promising technique if you're working with hand tools anyway. I'm not sure though that I could handle that much garden with only hand tools. Perhaps if I had a prodigious supply of mulch...

As for other non-row planting, I tried square foot gardening once, but you really do have to make up a rich artificial soil to plant that densely. In normal garden loam the plants need more space.


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I'm listening to podcasts and reading about permaculture. Are any of the folks here interested in hugulkultur and plantings that aren't in rows?


This drought has got me plenty interested. I am also considering swales and or some combination. Plenty dead wood available. I have access to a large valume of wood chips and saw dust from horse stall cleanings. I seperate out some for use as chicken bedding.


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## PrairieBelle22 (Nov 17, 2006)

crwilson said:


> I have never raised chickens myself before but have helped with my brothers and my dads, is it easier to raise more at once and put them in the freezer or raise smaller amounts multiple times a year? space is not a problem so raising a large amount is doable in that sense. Would just like to hear suggestions from a few people who have done it both ways. I will probably start off with 25-30 just to learn with. Also is weather a problem for anyone, is it easier to raise chicks in the early spring vs later summer etc.
> Thanks Rick


Several years ago I ordered 100 of the heavy breed chicks from one of the nurseries. We butchered quite a few of them and kept some for laying purposes. It was hard work butchering and putting away that many roos but we made it through. I don't think I would want to process 50-60 at one time again. Maybe 10-20 would be ok though.

The cool temps in the spring is a problem if you do not have a way of keeping the chicks warm. They absolutely must stay dry and warm. I hatched out a couple dozen this past summer when it was hotter'n blue blazes and they all did fine. The temps don't matter too much to me because I just regulate the temperature in their cage.

I am planning to set off more heavy breeds this spring. Probably Rhode Island Reds and Barred Rocks. I had some lovely Black Austrolorps last year but sold every last one of them. :sob:

Belle


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I'm listening to podcasts and reading about permaculture. Are any of the folks here interested in hugulkultur and plantings that aren't in rows?


We just built our first huegulkultur bed and have plans for more. The main portion of our garden is deep beds (bio-dynamics). We saved a ton of watering this past year. We will never go back to row gardening. The pathways are heavily mulched so very little weeding to do and what few grow in the bio-dynamic beds are super easy to pull out. I can weed most of the garden in about 30 minutes every few days with just my hands. I have never worked so little to have produced so much. Once the beds are established they are easy to maintain. Blessings, Kat


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

We have raised beds here in Texas and in my summer garden in Missouri, and I'm interested in planting diverse crops together rather than monoculture.

I have one small Hugulkulture bed in Missouri that I just put in over the summer. It should do better this spring. 

The permaculture concept that is catching my interest in long term plantings of food bearing plants in a more natural setting. No rows.


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## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

Count me in. I'm already beginning to feel accountable to all of you, thinking about doing a better job of weeding, etc. It will also encourage me to do a better job of weighing produce and keeping better records in general. 

Think I need to figure out how to make seed pots from newspaper tomorrow!


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## crwilson (Feb 9, 2005)

I use alot of newspaper pots to start my seeds, I use a large tall glass for forming them works well.


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## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

Thx, sounds better than sending some unknown person/co $25 for those cute little wooden things! Do you just twist it at the botom? fold and tape? fold and hope it stays together?


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## crwilson (Feb 9, 2005)

I take one sheet of newspaper and lay it out like the paper is just one page not open, and then I fold about one inch legthwise along the side that you cant open, this will be the top of the pot and this one inch gives the top extra strength. 

so then i lay the paper flat and place the glass along the edge with the 1" fold make sure that a inch or two of the glass is sticking out past the paper because this is how you will pull it out of the pot, this has to also be the end of the glass with a bottom. Now just spin the glass on down the paper rolling it around the glass until you get to the end. now simply ram all the paper that is hanging down past the open edge of the glass up into the empty end. 

Your pot is now finished no taping or anything is necesarry, sometimes I jam a wooden stick or something down into the pot to get the bottom flat.

It also helps to have a long glass that is mostly the same size at the top as the bottom


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Has anyone here made their own soil blocks for starting seedlings?


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

This is a great thread. Super excited to see what everyone does this year. I think this should definitely be it's own sub forum. I would really like to incorporate permanent beds this year. I am saving cardboard like a mad person to make sheet mulching.

I have been doing deep bedding in my barn this winter so I will have a lot of "stuff" to spread. I have a question on mulching with animal bedding if anyone can answer....

Some folks are of the belief that animal bedding still is too rich in manure and will "burn" anything planted in it... I have that putting down animal bedding is good and it will all compost down into the soil. 

I am rather confused. I had thought about spreading down the bedding (mix of cow, goat and chicken bedding) directly on top of the soil, layering down several layers of cardboard to smother out weeds, then putting down compost as a "seed bed" then layering old hay/straw for the top. Will that work? Will 2-3 inches of compost be enough to start seeds in? I want to do this beginning of march so it will have about 6 weeks to work down before any broccoli/cabbage/etc gets planted into it.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I have done cardboard and composted animal manure to start new beds for years, along with reducing weeds around shrubs and berries.
But I have always done it by putting cardboard directly on the ground, then a 6 inch or more layer of composted horse manure, with baked crushed eggshells and a small bit of ashes from my pellet stove and finally a 3-4 inch thick layer of mulch (in my case usually redwood bark) on top 
I have always done it in the fall because it takes that long to decompose the cardboard and make the worms happy. For suprressing weeds, it doesn't seem to matter when so I usually do it in the spring.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Hannah90 said:


> Some folks are of the belief that animal bedding still is too rich in manure and will "burn" anything planted in it... I have that putting down animal bedding is good and it will all compost down into the soil.


Depends on the animal and the type of bedding, but in general I don't think you'll have much problem as long as you don't plant directly in it. I've heard great things about using raw uncomposted manure in a layer under the topsoil to heat up the soil for early spring planting. The article was very old, they used glass bells and cold frames to hold the heat. My folks always used cut up milk jugs to keep seedlings warm, but they blow away on my property. I'd like to give row covers a try with that method.

P.S. Also meant to say my father also used it as top dressing to good effect after the seedlings were established.


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## Maverick_mg (Mar 11, 2010)

K.B. said:


> Has anyone here made their own soil blocks for starting seedlings?


I soil block. I love it for starting and transplant or " potting up" new seedlings. It's a little bit labor intensive in the beginning to mix the soil and form the blocks. But I have had very good germination and no transplant issues using the blocks. I don't see myself potting in plastic anymore.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Maverick_mg said:


> I soil block. I love it for starting and transplant or " potting up" new seedlings. It's a little bit labor intensive in the beginning to mix the soil and form the blocks. But I have had very good germination and no transplant issues using the blocks. I don't see myself potting in plastic anymore.


Great to hear - thank you! Do you have a home made blocker or like one that you purchased?

I'm thinking of asking my son to work on a setup as a spring woodworking project...


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

I found out I dont have to work tomorrow when I clocked out this evening so,

Saturday morning, build the 8 x 8 green house and get my starts in it and be ready to plant more in a week.

Saturday afternoon, expand our garden from 80 x 50 to about 110 x 110. The initial ground breaking will be done with a tractor and then the tiller will be brought into play.

Sunday, butcher at least half of the 25 broilers we have ready to go to the freezer. 

Next weekend there is a fruit and nut tree seminar at one of the better nurseries in San Antonio. Karla and I are going to attend that and then buy the fruit trees the girls gave me a voucher for for Christmas. 

That should keep us busy til the weekend after all that when I am going to a bee keeping seminar. 

As more daylight becomes available in the evenings, things will really pick up around here and the weekends will be pretty full as well.


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## sdnapier (Aug 13, 2010)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Fascinating video:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCmTJkZy0rM


I love them and what they are doing. What an example to follow. I ended up in Pasadena this past year and stopped by their place. Very nice people


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## sdnapier (Aug 13, 2010)

Vydra said:


> I would also be interested in following this thread, although I would just be here to learn and support everyone.
> My own garden space currently is restricted to a small apartment balcony. Last year I managed to have a nice little herb garden and some marigolds. That was my first ever attempt at growing anything, so I felt pretty good about it even though it was so small. This year I hope to improve and expand with the herbs and try adding some veggies. We will see how it goes; fingers crossed! Haha


That is awesome!!! Maybe you could do a little vertical gardening this year in addition. Up is sometimes the best way to go. Good luck


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## sdnapier (Aug 13, 2010)

This is a great thread and I want to see everyone's pictures!!!


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## Forest (Oct 14, 2010)

This is a great thread! I'll join, although I definitely won't be able to do 90% given time and space constraints... but this will be a motivation to grow and use more of our own stuff. Maybe as a start I could figure out how much of our food I'm actually growing??? Looking forward to seeing garden pictures, too!


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

crwilson said:


> I take one sheet of newspaper and lay it out like the paper is just one page not open, and then I fold about one inch legthwise along the side that you cant open, this will be the top of the pot and this one inch gives the top extra strength.
> 
> so then i lay the paper flat and place the glass along the edge with the 1" fold make sure that a inch or two of the glass is sticking out past the paper because this is how you will pull it out of the pot, this has to also be the end of the glass with a bottom. Now just spin the glass on down the paper rolling it around the glass until you get to the end. now simply ram all the paper that is hanging down past the open edge of the glass up into the empty end.
> 
> ...


 I used a veggie can.

I am going potless this year. 

Saturate potting mix to paste. (Use only fines)

Fill container. 

Press out water. 

Turn upside down and tap it out. 

Place in a rimmed cookie sheet. Get at garage sale. Fill tray with water.

DO NOT LET THEM DRY OUT AFTER SEED PLANTING.

They hold together very well. They do not crumble. Simply do not handle till planting.


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

K.B. said:


> Has anyone here made their own soil blocks for starting seedlings?


Yes I made test blocks last year after the season got started. they hold up well.

Make your own potting soil too!

Use steril soil and potting mix.

Make a solar cooker to sterilize soil. Not necessary unless you are going to sell plant starts. People do not like weeds. Some can not tell a weed from a veggie plant.


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

Hannah90 said:


> This is a great thread. Super excited to see what everyone does this year. I think this should definitely be it's own sub forum. I would really like to incorporate permanent beds this year. I am saving cardboard like a mad person to make sheet mulching.
> 
> I have been doing deep bedding in my barn this winter so I will have a lot of "stuff" to spread. I have a question on mulching with animal bedding if anyone can answer....
> 
> ...


Cardboard works great to keep out weeds. It does not let water through very well. I killed the weeds but had to spot water the plants individually. I did not like the effect.


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## PrairieBelle22 (Nov 17, 2006)

I took a big step toward completing my little greenhouse. DD and I replaced many of the broken panes but I am going to have to have more panes cut. Tomorrow I will start working on the ground beds and start working on a heat source. I will need to start broccoli seeds very soon. This little greenhouse has lots of possibilities for extending my growing season! I will take a picture tomorrow and try to upload it.

Also I am going to take a look at my menu guide and work on my 90% plan. I gotta have a plan.

Belle


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## crwilson (Feb 9, 2005)

sounds like your putting in alot of hard work prairiebelle , ive been trying to figure out how much I will have to grow in pounds and then figure out how much space in foot rows that will take then seed amount needed. Also researching crops online that I have never grown such as grains.


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## Maverick_mg (Mar 11, 2010)

I bought my soil blocking tools from Johnny's. As for next years plan, well I've been putting it off. That right now is the only downside to 4 season growing, no down time. I'm still planting and cutting and ordering seeds to keep up. 
We are moving to our own farm, no more renting, so I have to start over with the garden beds again. I am working on setting up one or two of my own high tunnels so I don't have to rent those ether. But I have a lot of planing to get through. I have to figure out where the market garden will go so that I know where the high tunnels will go. To do that I need to figure out where I will have people park, cause we are moving to an orchard and thinking about doing weddings and u-pick, so I need parking. I've got so much to think about to set this up that my brain hurts, lol, and I'm running out of time. I have til the end of the month to figure it out. Alright! That did it, now I won't be able to fall asleep. Lol


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

am1too said:


> Yes I made test blocks last year after the season got started. they hold up well.
> 
> Make your own potting soil too!
> 
> ...


Glad to hear the soil blocks worked for you. Mine won't be for commercial purposes, so no need to sterilize them. 

I'm interested in using them to get a jump start on transplants to fill gaps in the annual beds after things are harvested.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Maybe it would be a better idea to till the bedding into the beds I want to make, get the plants in, establish drip hose system, then lay the cardboard around it. I hadn't thought about the watering issue.


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

Hannah90 said:


> This is a great thread. Super excited to see what everyone does this year. I think this should definitely be it's own sub forum. I would really like to incorporate permanent beds this year. I am saving cardboard like a mad person to make sheet mulching.
> 
> I have been doing deep bedding in my barn this winter so I will have a lot of "stuff" to spread. I have a question on mulching with animal bedding if anyone can answer....
> 
> ...


In the spring/late winter I always mix in my goat and rabbit bedding with the soil in the beds. I have great results. I prefer to mix for several reasons. 1 it does warm the soil faster and 2 I feel that more of the good stuff is locked in the soil and 3. It makes it easier to plant. In the fall I top all beds that are being taken out of use until spring with a generous layer which is broken down by January planting. I have made new beds by doing as you have said above and never had a problem.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

So what is one thing you've never grown before that you REALLY want to add? For me it's grains. Well, grains besides corn  Like every small homestead, I don't have a combine or a planter... so, oats are a little intimidating. I need to find some kind of roller so I can plant them like they need to be. Also, I have no idea how much to plant. I would mostly be growing them for chicken feed and supplemental for goats in heavy lactation. Some for the house too! Wheat is also on my list. The big part... how to keep the birds away?


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

Hannah90 said:


> So what is one thing you've never grown before that you REALLY want to add? For me it's grains. Well, grains besides corn  Like every small homestead, I don't have a combine or a planter... so, oats are a little intimidating. I need to find some kind of roller so I can plant them like they need to be. Also, I have no idea how much to plant. I would mostly be growing them for chicken feed and supplemental for goats in heavy lactation. Some for the house too! Wheat is also on my list. The big part... how to keep the birds away?


You can get spring hulless oats that have no hull, so that saves the headache of hulling oats. We grew a small patch two years ago, but forgot that the ******* lawnmower(horse) could reach over the garden fence. The oats were not too far away from harvest and he enjoyed them immensely. Harvested what was left with a weedeater to feed the goats. As far as how much to grow, I couldn't really tell you. There is a book called "Growing Grains on a small acreage" that is supposed to be great. We started with a small plot, about 15 ft. wide and 60 feet long. Just so we could get an idea of what hand processing is like. We did that with wheat and tried to with the hulless oats. We are growing a bigger plot of regular oats this year since it will strictly be for livestock feed. Blessings, Kat


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

A WEEDEATER! Oh my gosh, why didn't I think of that. Modern day scythe! Anyway, how did you actually plant to oats? I see everyone saying they need to be rolled in. You didn't have any trouble with birds?


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Oh, forgot to say. I read about half of that book. I wanted to finish it, but had to return it to the library. It had a lot of good info, but I like hearing other people's experiences.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Hannah90 said:


> So what is one thing you've never grown before that you REALLY want to add?


Pinto beans. In general our diet is pretty low carb and does not have a lot of beans, but I love making my own re-fried beans as a treat. Dry beans also keep very well and might be a good early spring food when the winter squashes and root veggies are past their prime.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Oh, beans are a staple here. I have a hard time finding just "pinto" beans from the heirloom seed companies. Everything is "similar" or a "cousin to" same for kidney beans. Black beans and green beans galore though


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

Hannah90 said:


> So what is one thing you've never grown before that you REALLY want to add? For me it's grains. Well, grains besides corn  *Like every small homestead, I don't have a combine or a planter*... so, oats are a little intimidating. I need to find some kind of roller so I can plant them like they need to be. Also, I have no idea how much to plant. I would mostly be growing them for chicken feed and supplemental for goats in heavy lactation. Some for the house too! Wheat is also on my list. The big part... how to keep the birds away?


Planters are every where. I have this one that works well

http://www.earthway.com/products/hand-spreaders/2750-nylon-bag-seederspreader

Small broadcast seeders come in different sizes, designs, carry, push or pull.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

When I plant a cover crop, I use the tiller.

I till, scatter the seeds, adjust the depth of the tiller to shallow, and till them under.

Some of the seeds will be on top and be lost, but most will be buried and they grow well.


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## kittyjo (Feb 10, 2005)

I used the LDS food storage calculator to get an idea of how much to store and folow the rule of storing what you eat and eat what you store in the way of food rotation oldest out first it can get overwhelming at times as it is only the two of us but I also can expect our kids to come here if they need help


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

We are fortunate that we can have stuff coming form the garden almost year around. That helps tremendously.

As far as figuring food, we have a different approach.

Stuff like blackeyed peas, green beans, corn, etc, is frozen in 1 lb packages. 1 pound will make a meal for Karla, myself and the 3 kids. Then, 52 weeks in a year equals 52 lbs of each. Thats minimum. We shoot for half again that much if not double. 

With potatoes and onions, its more of a storage problem. I'm working on that, but in the mean time, I will plant more and pick through them as the months go by . We are shooting for about 600 bulb onions ( we eat nearly an onion a day anyway ), and 400 plus pounds of red and white potatoes. 

We havent really sat down and figured canned tomatoes and such, but when the time comes, we'll can or freeze all we can and see what it looks like. 

Just put a hog in the freezer, have chickens, ducks and turkeys to go into the freezer. Eggs daily with more pullets coming along to fill in the gaps when the older hens slow down during molt. 

The goats will kid about April, and then Karla will start the milking and yogurt, cheese and such. 

It will be a work in progress here and then adjustments can be made next year, but that is always the case.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

This is a great thread. Thanks for starting it; and I would 2nd the suggestion to create a separate forum for this and the idea of each of us starting our own personal blog in that forum with a link to the this main thread.

Attempting to be self-sufficient in the growing of our own foods is what I've strived for since we first purchased this land and set up living quarters on it back in 1995. The first thing I did was test the soil and give it what the ag dept said it needed to grow what I wanted on it.

I started with grass seed (New Zealand seed that is endophyte free) for pasture land for a small herd of dairy goats. (The dairy goats being for both milk and meat needs.) And I sprayed the rest of the acreage with cover crops (winter rye, lespedeza, hairy vetch & winter oats) that got tilled under each year.

Then I purchased chickens, geese and guineas...also for meat/eggs & tick control. (The geese are "weeders", which means they forage for their food all year around, as do the guineas; so our major food bill for the fowl was for laying pellets & cracked corn.)

Learning what is growing wild on these 6 acres has benefitted us a lot because, not only do we have fresh greens all year around, we also have some medicinal plants I'm learning to make use of.

All the bedding each late fall and/or early spring gets raked into the garden area to which they are all adjacent. The one thing I did NOT do well is composting. Though I have a huge composter that is easy to stir (just push the lever around and around several times daily and give it a little water), I've never been adequate in creating good compost in it...not yet! So this year I'm creating a 3-part area inside my veggie area for composting "on the ground". This will be a neat experience!

Then, after constructing all housing for the animals and fowl, tools & gardening supplies, I put up fencing around a large garden/orchard area and planted fruit trees (pears, persimmons, cherries, plums, currants), bushes (elderberry, goji, rugosa roses, blueberries) & vinyard (blackberry, raspberry, seedless grapes & muscadines). Also have a couple of Sugar Maples growing. Learning how to care for these was a pain in the xxx. (I'm a city gal born and bred with a country heart and no country experience; so I've learned to do what needs done on our homestead by doing and making every mistake in the book.) 

Next came the vegetable garden with basics we use a lot of, i.e. snaps, corn, asparagus, squash, peas, okra, tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers & a variety of melons. The herbal garden is something I just started experimenting with last year with mint, garlic, nettle, calendula, & oregano; and I've ordered 50 strawberry plants that should be showing up pretty soon.

This year I'm putting in a deep (2-1/2 ft above ground) bed for root crops (carrots, Irish potatoes, beets & onions...no sweet potatoes here because the soil for them needs to be more alkaline I believe.). I've already got the top soil off, which left a 2 ft hole (6' x 30'). I am putting in 4x4 all along one side then will put all our fallen tree limbs, old wood from the destruction of an old house we've been working on for years & the trunks of various trees David cut down. Then I'll put some goat bedding over all this and return the top soil (mixed with chicken manure). Of course the remaining 4x4s will be around the entire parameter by this time and some horizontal boards running all around for me to sit on while working the bed. (The working area of this bed will be 5' x 30' and I can easily work it from all sides; and the length of the 4x4s around it will permit me some options as to shade or even trellis if I want for some reason down the road...maybe running beans to feed the soil nitrogen.) At the end of this raised bed I have a huge Bocking 14 Comfrey plant that is pulling up nutrients for all around it. (I suspect this will be my only raised bed for this new year as it has taken a lot out of me to create it. However, root crops were about the only basic foods we did not grow ourselves; so it will save a bit of cash.)

I believe we are at least 75% self-sufficient foodwise now. If I can get a pond excavated I won't have to purchase sea food either, which will up this percentage.

My work room (14' x 18' in a corner of the barn that is under our loft) will be emptied this year and I will set up all my food processing tools in there, i.e. canner, dehydrator & juicer. Am also considering an area of this space for wine-making tools.

Up between the front gate and the state road is an area about 50-60 ft wide where I will use some of what I've taken off the old shack to create a road-side stand where select produce can be sold and/or given away. (The sign is going to read, "Take what you need. Pay what you can. And a little money box will be placed up there for customer convenience. I'm not going to worry about any type of theft.)

David is working on the herbal aspect more than I as he is creating extracts that are very, very strong and strictly organic. He worked a great deal with Passion Flowers this year and is hoping to set up a way to sell these for a little extra income. (A couple of drops of this extract will help me sleep like a baby all night long...and a glass of Passion Flower tincture thru the day will keep my nerves from jumping all over me....and best of all it is not habit forming nor with any negative side effects.)

Again, thanks for starting this thread and I am looking forward to learning from what others are doing to become more and more self-sufficient.


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

Hannah90 said:


> Oh, beans are a staple here. I have a hard time finding just "pinto" beans from the heirloom seed companies. Everything is "similar" or a "cousin to" same for kidney beans. Black beans and green beans galore though


On the beans I just bought a package for m the grocery store. They did fine.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

motdaugrnds said:


> (The sign is going to read, "Take what you need. Pay what you can. And a little money box will be placed up there for customer convenience. I'm not going to worry about any type of theft.)


Around here, it's rather common practice to have a roadside stand with no signage besides maybe "CORN" or "PRODUCE", and a little mayo jar or some such. The customer decides what to pay and leaves it in the jar, if necessary helping themselves to change.

I'm planning to donate a lot of produce my first year until I can get a profitable outlet going next year. I'll have to look up town codes about produce stands.


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## PrairieBelle22 (Nov 17, 2006)

crwilson said:


> sounds like your putting in alot of hard work prairiebelle , ive been trying to figure out how much I will have to grow in pounds and then figure out how much space in foot rows that will take then seed amount needed. Also researching crops online that I have never grown such as grains.


A lot of work, yes, for sure. Regarding quantities, I found a fact sheet from the extension service that told how many row feet needed per person for each crop item listed. That was a big help in planning.

I decided to try to raise some meat chickens this year. I have a good start on Barred Rocks and Rhode Island Reds stock so I am going to start setting off some eggs early this spring. DH and I strategized the chicken yard additions and laid out plans for at least 1 chicken tractor! So glad he's on board with this! Anyone else eat the meat of these two breeds? They are awesome layers for sure, and sweet friendly birds.



Hannah90 said:


> So what is one thing you've never grown before that you REALLY want to add? For me it's grains. Well, grains besides corn  Like every small homestead, I don't have a combine or a planter... so, oats are a little intimidating. I need to find some kind of roller so I can plant them like they need to be. Also, I have no idea how much to plant. I would mostly be growing them for chicken feed and supplemental for goats in heavy lactation. Some for the house too! Wheat is also on my list. The big part... how to keep the birds away?


Kale! I actually planted some this fall but then got sick and couldn't get out and water and take care of it so I didn't get a harvest. But I've heard that Kale is so very good for you so I want to grow and eat some!

Belle


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Hannah90 said:


> Oh, beans are a staple here. I have a hard time finding just "pinto" beans from the heirloom seed companies. Everything is "similar" or a "cousin to" same for kidney beans. Black beans and green beans galore though


http://www.heirloomseeds.com/beans.htm
http://www.localharvest.org/pinto-bean-seed-C6666
http://www.mypatriotsupply.com/Pinto_Heirloom_Bush_Bean_Survival_Seeds_p/pinto.htm


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## sdnapier (Aug 13, 2010)

Hannah90 said:


> A WEEDEATER! Oh my gosh, why didn't I think of that. Modern day scythe! Anyway, how did you actually plant to oats? I see everyone saying they need to be rolled in. You didn't have any trouble with birds?


I just scatter mine on the ground. Didn't cover the seeds at all. Rain came, oats grew. This is my first time growing them so it will be interesting to see how much I really get. Good luck with yours


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

Hannah90 said:


> A WEEDEATER! Oh my gosh, why didn't I think of that. Modern day scythe! Anyway, how did you actually plant to oats? I see everyone saying they need to be rolled in. You didn't have any trouble with birds?


I broadcast the seen on loose soil, lightly raked over it and tamped it with my hoe. Then put a light layer of old hay on top and watered. I don't have too many bird issues in my garden because between me, the dogs and the cats, along with the ducks outside birds tend to stay away for the most part. One thing I have found when i broadcast pasture seed though is to do it in the rain, a hard rain is best. It somewhat drives the seed into the soil and at least gets it dirty and the songbirds tend to leave it alone for the most part. Yes, it really works. I lost 100lbs of rye seed one fall as the birds swooped on the pasture and cleaned up every stitch I put out. Anytime I put out seed in the rain on the pastures the birds leave it alone.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

dlskidmore said:


> http://www.heirloomseeds.com/beans.htm
> http://www.localharvest.org/pinto-bean-seed-C6666
> http://www.mypatriotsupply.com/Pinto_Heirloom_Bush_Bean_Survival_Seeds_p/pinto.htm


OH MAN! Thanks so much for these links! :happy:


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

So, ya'll planting oats... how do you dry it? Do you thresh it? If you use the stalks for straw, how do you store that? I would like to plant enough to use the heads for food and the stalks for bedding/mulch. That's probably a lot... but I can probably employ some free labor i.e family


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I bought a book by Jackie Clay: she says she puts the grain in a child's swimming pool, puts on new sneakers, and walks on it to thresh the grain out.


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

Those of you talking about growing oats for food and feed, have you studied how to dehull the oats you grow? Critters can handle the hulls but, not so much in the kitchen. 

In can be done for food use but there is extra work involved before you can do anything else with it.

Unless, you grow hull less oats.


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## PrairieBelle22 (Nov 17, 2006)

We have robins! I always heard that once robins reappear, that spring is right around the corner. Then right after we see the robins we have a winter weather blast of freezing rain and snow pellets. But the forcase is calling for 50 degrees again by Thursday. I am eager for spring. This 90% challenge has me enthused for the growing season.

Belle


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

My green house is finished. I have a bunch of plants I was starting inside in it now. Still some shelves and another table to go, but it is 100% usable right now.


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

Hannah90 said:


> So, ya'll planting oats... how do you dry it? Do you thresh it? If you use the stalks for straw, how do you store that? I would like to plant enough to use the heads for food and the stalks for bedding/mulch. That's probably a lot... but I can probably employ some free labor i.e family


If you grow regular oats then you will need to thresh. My oat patch was hull-less oats. The horse ate most of them but I did get a handful or two out of the patch that I saved for seed. I simply snipped the heads off and laid them on the dining room table for about a week. Seeds easily separated. The stalks I used for bedding in the goat barn. I didn't have much from my little plot. If I had had more I would have stored in the feed room on a pallet. My feed room has good air circulation.


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## Vickie44 (Jul 27, 2010)

When I look in pantry and rootcellar I have tons of stuff from here or very nearby . Flour , olive ( well ,any ) oil and citrus is a problem . I would love to grow and process wheat .

I have to go to work , 1 hr commute each way and five days a week with a second job on Saturday so my time is limited. I think extending the growing season with green house and cold frames would serve me best .

Had venison stew this weekend , eveything was from here except the wheat and yeast in the bread that went with it . Peppers , snow peas carrots , potatoes,tomatos , rosemary . It seems to help me realize what I need by looking at what gets consumed


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## Tabitha (Apr 10, 2006)

crwilson said:


> I am very interested in producing about 90% of my food this summer, and perhaps supplying about 75% of my winter food until next spring, when I can begin the process anew. I would just like to know if anyone else on here is interested in doing this. I know some of you already achieve this and beyond so would love to hear from you. We could support each other and help each other with our goals through communications on this website, check for holes in each others plans "make sure there are no obvious neccessities left out" etc.
> 
> We could compile a food list with amounts that we can strive for, I know these are available on various websites but may need some tweaking for our tastes and growing conditions and what we have available, I currently have no fruit production except a small amount of grapes, so I wont reach my 90% fruit for another 4 or 5 years at least.
> 
> Anyways I thought there would probably be several of you interested so let me know and what your ideas are.



How much experience in food production do you have? 
How is your soil? What kind of fertilizer are you using? Do you have to buy it year after year? 
We have not bought animal products in years, but we have to buy hay and feed in winter. 
We also live in Ky. We just ate the last of the lettuce out of the cold frame. If we had to grow 90% of our food we would starve. We have worked very hard to improve our soil. Don't mean to sound discouraging.
good luck


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## PrairieBelle22 (Nov 17, 2006)

Woo-hoo! Just saw DH in town and he had us an incubator! I am soo happy. I can set off 42 eggs at one time. I used one just like this one last year on loan from a friend and liked it a lot. I plan to use some of these for meat, some for layers and some to sell. I made some good cash last year selling trios . 2 hens and a roo for 35.00. 

Belle


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Exciting prairiebelle! I was ELATED to find 4 perfect little pullet eggs this morning. These red sexlink girls were born september 5th 2012. I have 6, and 4 clearly have started up! No wonder they were making such a fuss this morning! 

I need to get my onions started ASAP or I won't be getting any this year unless I buy sets. I really want to see if I can get them started from seed. Last year I planted sets and only about 25% made anything worth pulling up. I assume I couldn't get enough water to them. Also, my dad dictated how to plant them, and I think they were planted way too close together.


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## siletz (Oct 5, 2010)

Here's a pic of our second greenhouse. Our cats shredded the plastic on our first hoophouse greenhouse, so my husband decided to start from scratch with something sturdier. A greenhouse is the best place to be on a cold winter day and has kept us in lettuce, kale, and such all winter. I think it is a key to growing more of what we eat.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Siletz,

That is beautiful! How did you build that? It looks to be right off the side of your home? Do you know how much it cost? My dad and I have been looking at pre-fab greenhouses, which can be quite pricey, but this looks fantastic. Is that window to monitor the temp?


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

Very nice, we are considering the same type of set-up.


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## siletz (Oct 5, 2010)

Hannah90 said:


> Siletz,
> 
> That is beautiful! How did you build that? It looks to be right off the side of your home? Do you know how much it cost? My dad and I have been looking at pre-fab greenhouses, which can be quite pricey, but this looks fantastic. Is that window to monitor the temp?


I have a very handy husband, and am very thankful he could build this for me, as it saved a great deal on the cost. We didn't buy the materials at one time, because we first tried to fix our old hoophouse, but make it "cat-proof", but here's my best guess. The plastic panels are a fiberglass panel we got from Home Depot that are for porch roofs and such and cost about $250. He has less than $100 in the wood and misc. We picked up the window for free and the door is an old screen door we found for $5 at a garage sale. It's about 8' x 18' and is on one end of my garden in the backyard.

If we lived in a place with a warmer summer, I think we'd want more vents, but we just open up the window and screendoor to let the air go through. We took off the gutter just above it on our house and connected it with joist hangers to the house. He poured a small cement footing, then bolted the walls to that. We can get quite windy over the winter, and this feels very solid. The kits always seem so expensive, and this one feels more heavy duty than the ones I have seen store-bought. If your dad is handy, I'd encourage you to build your own.


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## Homesteader (Jul 13, 2002)

siletz that is just wonderful! If you can, hang some pots from where the "roof" meets the house there, you could add a lot of growing space without interfering with the ground crops.

Big brownie points to your hubby! Please show us pics when there are plants in there...


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

I built mine Saturday. Not quite as big as siletz' ( I really like yours ) at 8 x 8, but I built it mostly for starting my plants. I built mine of the South wall of my shop to save on some materials and to give protection from the North winds. 

But I did build it so I can detach it from the shop, move it and add on later. I have a bunch of pepper plants that I was starting in the shop in it now.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Do you have that on concrete or anything, Bobby? I just want a green house to start plants, and maybe have one container tomato and some container lettuces in the winter.


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

Hannah90 said:


> Do you have that on concrete or anything, Bobby? I just want a green house to start plants, and maybe have one container tomato and some container lettuces in the winter.


No concrete. I used treated lumber for the bottom plates and just scraped the ground level. I have some cinder squares I am going to put in to have the benches sit on and then I am going to spread gravel over the rest on the inside.

Karla and I talked about lettuce and a tomato or 2 and I think we'll either hang those or do something running along a wall like steps.

I have a tad over $300 in it as it sits. For another $60, I could have made it free standing with 4 fiberglass walls. But , like I said earlier, I want to move it and double the size in a year or 2.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

It's spring in Western NY. I've started posting about my garden on my blog.

http://my-health-experiment.blogspot.com/2013/03/week-1.html

Actually not my first garden post, but a bit of a switch of focus.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Bumped, since someone was looking for it.


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## countrygal (Feb 14, 2010)

We are hoping to someday grow ALL our own food.

What with GMOs, pesticides, not knowing exactly what could be in the food (ex.: horse in beef), etc., we are anxious to grow all our food and the food for our animals.

This is going to be our second summer on this current property, so we are basically starting from scratch, too.

It seems to be taking sooooooooo long to get to where we want to be.

We are paying as we go, too, using cash, and living on a fixed income.

I know I need to be patient, but...

This year we are expanding the garden area, working slowly on getting solar power, hoping to build a new barn, and hoping to start a decent orchard. Meanwhile the equipment breaks down, the weather is bad, etc. Life is full of challenges, isn't it?

Good luck to you all.

Countrygal


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## DragonFlyFarm (Oct 12, 2012)

Oooohhh Great Thread! I'm in Northern California, Zone 9B. We purchased an old, old, house on 5 acres one year ago. Came with apple, peach, Asian pear and plum trees as well as established artichoke and asparagus plants. I am growing peas, soya beans, dragon tongue beans, two types of zucchini, spaghetti & butternut squash, tomatoes, beets, hot and bell peppers. We have Jacob sheep in the field (fiber and meat) -- got two ewe lambs on the ground this month. Hope to add chickens this year. My goal is all heritage/heirloom animals and produce. I have very sandy soil and have been using the horse manure as fast as they produce it. The biggest problem I have right now is gophers...lord do I hate those critters. My garden is limited to raised beds and buried cages. Such a pain. I was wondering what you all do to keep your gardens safe?


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## Waiting2Retire (Jan 14, 2013)

I like this thread, and will be following it along, taking notes on different aspects. I wont be able to contribute for many years, but one day when I can have my land, I will be more prepared


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

janetn said:


> Marerick - you spill the beans on what your doing and I will tell you what Ive learned. I got tomatoes all the way to Christmas! But my summer squash I planted in Sept in the greenhouse never flowered. I added lights and a solar set up for them. Moved my chickens into the greenhouse to increase the CO2 levels too. Definatly need help with getting my plants to flower. I can get really nice looking plants, but zip friut. BTW Im in Michigan too.


I may be wrong, but I believe squash needs to be polinated. I had some summer squash (crook neck) in my greenhouse that flowered well, there was also a couple of bees that got in and were working on them.  One year I had a lot of blossoms on my squash, but no fruit. When trying to figure out what went wrong I was told that squash has to have a male and female plant to produce. Don't know if that's true, but that was the only time I had problems with my squash.


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## countrygal (Feb 14, 2010)

What I did for gophers, was to put empty plastic bottles upside down on metal fence posts driven into the ground.

For deer I put Irish Spring soap on the posts.

They seemed to work for me.

countrygal


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

So selling some of your food to buy other food doesn't count? Would it be counted as barter?


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## DragonFlyFarm (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for the suggestion Countrygal. I'm assuming they do not like the noise/vibration ? I'll give it a shot!


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

It's been a rough spring so far. Planted the broccoli plants, then got blasted with three straight days of rain causing flooding, and today we got snow. I am trying to keep everything alive until I can finally get it all planted. I will lose most of the broccoli, unfortunately. 

I NEED a green house next year if I am to be successful starting all these seeds here. Just no place good to get them set out. Too much wind. Birds, DOGS. GR!


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Sonshine said:


> I may be wrong, but I believe squash needs to be polinated. I had some summer squash (crook neck) in my greenhouse that flowered well, there was also a couple of bees that got in and were working on them.  One year I had a lot of blossoms on my squash, but no fruit. When trying to figure out what went wrong I was told that squash has to have a male and female plant to produce. Don't know if that's true, but that was the only time I had problems with my squash.


You can get plenty of fruit from one squash plant. Each plant has male and female flowers. The female flower will have a tiny squash fruit at the base and the male flower will not have this. Take a male flower and pull off the petals. Then rub the pollen into one or two or the female flowers and you will get fruit even if you have no bees. Only the female flowers that are pollinated will produce. The others will shrivel up and the tiny fruit will drop off.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

snowcap said:


> So selling some of your food to buy other food doesn't count? Would it be counted as barter?


You decide what counts for you. Society prospers when people specialize and trade, but too much specialization and trading sticks most of us in factory or desk jobs and the rest inside giant tractor cabs.


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## ronbre (Apr 26, 2009)

I hope someday to be producing 90 % of my family food, but we went the way of food forest or edible forest gardening and so put in a lot of fruit and nut trees, many of which are babies and many of which will be newly planted each year as I can afford to put them in. We lost our fruit buds last year, but hope to have a lot of our trees bearing this year. Got our first pears and hazelnuts and medlar last year though even with the frosts. We don't produce any domestic food meats or eggs as of yet. You can see my plant lists on my blog (below) although many of them aren't bearing yet. The chestnut and hickory are still tiny trees and the walnuts are a few years from bearing I would suppose. Each year I add about a dozen trees and some shrubs, vines, perennials and always add annuals, many new ones each year.
got a brand new metal on metal canner this year and a victoria strainer to make putting up foods easier..I did notice you were planning on juices, a juicer or strainer makes it easier but yes you can easily put up juice and you can use fruit leathers if you have a drier pulpier juice, Maybe strain off the liquidy stuff for juice or jell and then dry the pulpier stuff


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## SimplerTimez (Jan 20, 2008)

This is a fantastic thread. While I'm losing my land right now, I hope to be back on land in the future and the information and feedback here is wonderful.
Count me in as a wanna-be lurker until back on plantable ground 

~ST


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

dlskidmore said:


> You decide what counts for you. Society prospers when people specialize and trade, but too much specialization and trading sticks most of us in factory or desk jobs and the rest inside giant tractor cabs.


What? So you guys aren't including the back yard gardeners in this?

I have gotten to the point where I grow about 70% of our food on 1/10th of an acre. But I have to grow some cash crops to buy Basic dry goods and some of our meat.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

snowcap said:


> What? So you guys aren't including the back yard gardeners in this?


I said no such thing.

It's not realistic to grow 100% of your own food, unless you live close to ocean/salt mine to get salt to preserve with, and our modern pallets are also fond of more variety than any single climate garden can provide. (Hence the 90% target.) We're all going to do some bartering, whether that's food for food, food for cash for food, labor for cash for food... Lumber for food?... Even those that grow 90% of their food probably did something besides growing food to get the down-payment/first month's rent on that land. What "counts" as growing your own food is up to each individual There's no judge and jury here.


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## Bob Huntress (Dec 17, 2012)

countrygal said:


> We are hoping to someday grow ALL our own food....
> 
> Countrygal


May I be bluntly honest? A lot of foods don't grow as well in small quantities, such as corn. It works much better to grow the things that you grow best in higher numbers and trade with others who homestead for other products. In the end, you will still end up buying things, but that can be greatly reduced. I use to think that I could grow everything I need, but that isn't as realistic as greatly reducing my needs. That's just my input, however.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

snowcap said:


> What? So you guys aren't including the back yard gardeners in this?
> 
> I have gotten to the point where I grow about 70% of our food on 1/10th of an acre. But I have to grow some cash crops to buy Basic dry goods and some of our meat.


You don't HAVE to grow 90 % but we can exchange ideas that get us there on a realistic level. My Dh won't give up certian things even tho I can grow/make them for him. He likes his certian kind of Ketsup and will only drink a certian kind of OJ,and he drinks alot of it,ect. If it came real nessassary he would have to change to homemade and grape/cherry/apple/ect juice(homemade). I'm not so picky, but I made a mistake in only eating sea salt for many years,now I'm dealing with a Thyroid problem and Have to deal with getting Iodine and selinium(defeciant in the soil here). So , do what you can and we'll all learn from each other to reach our goals.


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## Vydra (Jul 18, 2011)

Vydra said:


> I would also be interested in following this thread, although I would just be here to learn and support everyone.
> My own garden space currently is restricted to a small apartment balcony. Last year I managed to have a nice little herb garden and some marigolds. That was my first ever attempt at growing anything, so I felt pretty good about it even though it was so small. This year I hope to improve and expand with the herbs and try adding some veggies. We will see how it goes; fingers crossed! Haha


Update:
Despite the crazy weather changes last month, I started my balcony garden. Currently in my herb containers I am growing peppermint, sweet basil, thyme, oregano, marjoram and catnip. I would like to add a few more herbs, but haven't decided what yet. Any suggestions? 

For my veggie goal...I planted 3 smaller pots with butter crunch lettuce (1 per pot), but if I manage to take good care of them, I expect the pots will eventually be too small.  So far I am getting enough lettuce for 2-3 sandwiches a week. I am trying my luck with a cherry tomato plant as well. It seems to be doing well despite the temperature fluctuations.

Lastly, I have several marigolds, snapdragons and roses. I know flowers don't count towards the food goal of this thread, but this is still a learning experience for me, so any plant that I can keep alive is an ego boost haha!


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

It's that time of year again folks! I'm actually scaling back my plans this year for the family garden, but I'm putting in rows of mangel beets for my sheep.


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

DragonFlyFarm said:


> Oooohhh Great Thread! I'm in Northern California, Zone 9B. We purchased an old, old, house on 5 acres one year ago. Came with apple, peach, Asian pear and plum trees as well as established artichoke and asparagus plants. I am growing peas, soya beans, dragon tongue beans, two types of zucchini, spaghetti & butternut squash, tomatoes, beets, hot and bell peppers. We have Jacob sheep in the field (fiber and meat) -- got two ewe lambs on the ground this month. Hope to add chickens this year. My goal is all heritage/heirloom animals and produce. I have very sandy soil and have been using the horse manure as fast as they produce it. The biggest problem I have right now is gophers...lord do I hate those critters. My garden is limited to raised beds and buried cages. Such a pain. I was wondering what you all do to keep your gardens safe?


May I suggest dog poo liquefied in urine poured in their runs. Got rid of some of mine.


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## Vosey (Dec 8, 2012)

am1too said:


> May I suggest dog poo liquefied in urine poured in their runs. Got rid of some of mine.


Great idea we could actually easily do! I've been having DH pee down their holes, but I've got a 1 acre back yard full of dog poo  Can't be any worse than the dandelion fermentation project going on in a 5 gallon bucket....smells about the same.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

bassmaster17327 said:


> That is my goal but I rent garden space and it is only 20x60, I am not sure how much I could produce in that space. Last years garden was disapointing except for peppers. I raise rabbits for meat but most of them get sold and I keep a few chickens for eggs but I dont get ay eggs in the winter.


I am in central pa- literally smack in the middle - Centre county- where abouts are you? South Central says closer to Philly to me- but I am geography challenged-


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

I will be following this thread. Although I would love to produce 90% or more of my own food, realistically, I am nowhere near that.
This year the garden is right at half acre. I have cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, beets, oniins, cucumbers, melons, pumpkins, zucchini, green beans, peas, sweet corn, tomatoes, and peppers.
I am also growing several rows of another corn, white Truckers favorite, i grew it last year and we didn't like it at all, but it grew well and the chickens loved it. I also have several long rows of sunflowers growing. There again, makes good chicken feed.
I have Apple trees, pear, peach, and a plum tree. The fruit trees were planted this year. I have easy access to black walnuts and hickory nuts.
Early this year I made 4.5 gallons of maple syrup.
Our property is lined with wild blackberry and black raspberry. I do have a handful of thornless blackberries growing as well.
I raise pigs and chickens and turkeys for meat, I also keep a flock of laying hens for eggs.
I hunt deer for meat, and this year I will once again, start keeping meat rabbits.
Future plans for our property include multitudes of asparagus, grapes, strawberries, and a calf or two, and my wife wants to get a trio of goats. If/when we get goats again, I plan on two nubian does and a boer buck.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> I will be following this thread. Although I would love to produce 90% or more of my own food, realistically, I am nowhere near that.
> This year the garden is right at half acre. I have cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, beets, oniins, cucumbers, melons, pumpkins, zucchini, green beans, peas, sweet corn, tomatoes, and peppers.


You're way ahead of me! Sounds like you're moving in the right direction.


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## Rustaholic (Dec 1, 2007)

Wow, This is a great topic I will be watching.
Everything we do here has to start with soil rebuilding.


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## Vosey (Dec 8, 2012)

We also had a 50% thread a little while ago for those of us who were nowhere near 90%  

I think we can do 90% of our veggies, at least if the winter squash cooperates and our winter garden doesn't get crushed by below normal temps. But there's no way we're growing all our meat or our grains. And not oils or sugar. 

But I'm super happy with doing most of our veggies, eggs and getting grains and meats in bulk and from people I know if possible. I have a co-worker starting a meat chicken business, friends who are about ready to sell their first cows, a local farm with pastured pigs. And life is good and the more food I put up for the future and the less I buy at the grocery store the better.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Our veggies are the main thing, I still have quite a bit of green beans from last year, we are out of corn and tomato sauce from last year. Still have a fair amount of salsa and a lot of pickles. I didn't grow any potatoes last year and my peas and carrots were a failure.
I also still have a couple jars of kraut.
I need to review my notes from last year so I will know how much I did of each item, so i can guestimate how much more I need to do this year.
I forgot, I am also out of applesauce, Apple butter, and almost out of blackberry jam, but still have many jars of Apple jelly and raspberry jam.
I am down to one package of chicken in the freezer from last year, but my first batch of meat birds are about 2 weeks away from butcher, so I cut that one close.
If i remember correctly, we canned something like 260 jars last year; that's pickles, jams, veggies, tomato product, etc. As well as froze a lot of green beans and 6 dozen ears of corn and a lot of bell peppers.
Our goal this year is no less than 500 jars, but also will be canning more meat. With 2 of my pigs destined for my freezer, freezer space will be at a premium.


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## Twobottom (Sep 29, 2013)

We grow alot of our food. I dont know what percentage. Most of what we eat that we dont grow is more out of choice than necessity. I certainly can live on my home grown food but the diet gets monotonous...potato and eggs, swiss chard, beans, chicken, lamb, tomato etc. Its great but sometimes you want something different.


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## Brickhouse1 (Oct 30, 2013)

This is a great thread! We're not even on our land yet (hopefully within a year) but want to join. I have so many questions. My first goal is to produce 50% of what we consume, then increase from there. I'm a newbie (just a couple of seasons of experience in small gardening), so I don't know how long it'll take to achieve my first goal. 

We are a family of 4. We eat broccoli about 3x/wk. I was thinking I start seeds every week (about 10 each week) for about 4-5 weeks so that there's a succession harvest (is that even a term??). When they're ready, eat fresh the harvest and freeze the excess for that week. Is that how it's done or do you start/plant everything at once?


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

I don't take the percentage too seriously, we just want to keep increasing.


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## Vosey (Dec 8, 2012)

Brickhouse1 said:


> This is a great thread! We're not even on our land yet (hopefully within a year) but want to join. I have so many questions. My first goal is to produce 50% of what we consume, then increase from there. I'm a newbie (just a couple of seasons of experience in small gardening), so I don't know how long it'll take to achieve my first goal.
> 
> We are a family of 4. We eat broccoli about 3x/wk. I was thinking I start seeds every week (about 10 each week) for about 4-5 weeks so that there's a succession harvest (is that even a term??). When they're ready, eat fresh the harvest and freeze the excess for that week. Is that how it's done or do you start/plant everything at once?


How you plant depends so much on where you live. I would think that a lot of Texas is too hot in the summer for broccoli and it would be a fall/winter vegetable. The key thing is finding out what grows well in your area and then finding out by trial and error what you're good at growing! When you're growing much of your own food you'll start eating more with the seasons, and I bet you'll have more variety than broccoli 3x a week!


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## LonelyNorthwind (Mar 6, 2010)

I am so so lucky to be where wild meat, fish, seafood, berries and greens are so plentiful. I have bought none of the above for years. Chickens are spendy to raise up here so I stick to a dozen for eating & 4 for laying. I have a garden scattered all over the place in boats, raised beds, tires and anything else I can put dirt in.
I buy dry goods in bulk a couple times a year from Azure and send money for butter, cheese & fresh fruit with anyone headed south to Costco. 
It can be a month before I go to town and even then I don't buy much food.

The thing is, I'm on S.S., teach part-time in winter and have all the time in the world to make living a full-time job instead of having a full-time job to make a living.....did that make sense?


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

Well I'm hoping to get more into this. I've planted a vegetable garden every single year but have not harvested pretty much anything from them. Something always goes wrong. This year I'm taking a much more intense look at what I'm doing, I've moved the garden and I'm taking steps to make it a successful one. I bought grape vines and will be planting them as soon as they arrive. I am concerned about them. My husband thinks I'm stupid. You see we have oil drilling. Sure, the nearest rig is a mile away right now but we have felt the effects. We've really felt them. The ground animals are fleeing the ground vibrations caused by the drilling. Where are they fleeing to? Why our property of course. We have had an EXPLOSION of them. It's getting rather desperate here actually. They've been very busy the last few years killing everything we put in the ground. I've lifted trees out of the ground because their roots had been eaten clean off. I just spent the weekend cutting down all of our dead trees. They like to burrow around the roots and if they aren't eating them they are damaging them. We've tried poison and so on with no success. We have hundreds of them I believe. So I'm going to plant the grapes and I'm going to pray they leave them alone but I don't have too much hope. Ground animals and rabbit populations have kept me from being successful.


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## Twobottom (Sep 29, 2013)

Brickhouse1 said:


> This is a great thread! We're not even on our land yet (hopefully within a year) but want to join. I have so many questions. My first goal is to produce 50% of what we consume, then increase from there. I'm a newbie (just a couple of seasons of experience in small gardening), so I don't know how long it'll take to achieve my first goal.
> 
> We are a family of 4. We eat broccoli about 3x/wk. I was thinking I start seeds every week (about 10 each week) for about 4-5 weeks so that there's a succession harvest (is that even a term??). When they're ready, eat fresh the harvest and freeze the excess for that week. Is that how it's done or do you start/plant everything at once?


I usually plant about half my garden, then I'll plant the other half about a month later. We're up in the northeast so we dont get as long a growing season as you do. Its really two big harvests and then alot of time spent canning or freezing for winter consumption.


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## urban gleaner (Jan 23, 2014)

LittleRedHen said:


> That is my DESIRE... it is going to take awhile to get there though. I LOVE gardening but its in sand and its not very umm fruitful. I am buying 10 acres this year though with better soil. I won't be able to tackle it right away and turn it into a garden there but I will be able to take the heavy soil and clay from there and swap it with my sand for gardening today... and plant my fruit trees etc there to get established for food "tomorrow" I would love to be self sufficient in food except for a few things like tea, coffee and flour



I know this is an old post, but for those of you who it will be awhile before you actually move out to your place, trading off room and board for work-if there is a spot that is/can be made livable year round, can give you a jump start on getting your place up and productive. Someone with references that can be CHECKED. Check permaculture forums for them.


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## vixcottage (Feb 12, 2013)

I have grown or harvested more than 90% of food in the past. My former husband and I grew all of our own food and harvested meat and fish. We lived in the Shenandoah Mountains of Virginia. Stores were only frquented maybe once per month for toilet paper or soap products. Only 1 roll of paper towels per year. Everything was used and reused. We had all of our fruit from trees and berry bushes. We used raised beds for our vegetables. We had canned food always more than 1 year ahead. We also dehydrated fruits and vegetables. Made our own sausage, smoked different meats and had a great set up. We also had our own milk from goats. When we divorced I have never been able to regain that degree of self sufficiency.


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

vixcottage said:


> I have grown or harvested more than 90% of food in the past. My former husband and I grew all of our own food and harvested meat and fish. We lived in the Shenandoah Mountains of Virginia. Stores were only frquented maybe once per month for toilet paper or soap products. Only 1 roll of paper towels per year. Everything was used and reused. We had all of our fruit from trees and berry bushes. We used raised beds for our vegetables. We had canned food always more than 1 year ahead. We also dehydrated fruits and vegetables. Made our own sausage, smoked different meats and had a great set up. We also had our own milk from goats. When we divorced I have never been able to regain that degree of self sufficiency.


I do believe certain areas allow for this to be done a bit easier than others. 

Regular rains are a huge plus and cold weather to help with butchering and preserving meat is another. Both of which or in short supply here, but we do the best we can.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

Alright, here's a question for the ones that go above and beyond the main group of 'gardeners' so to speak. 

There seems to be a point where most people can get to without many problems but gets stuck. Like us, we raise a nice sized garden with all the fixings. Potatoes, beans (green and dried), corn, tomatoes, peppers, squash, and so on.. Meats are mainly covered like beef, chicken, deer, rabbits, fish and so on.. we have loads of wild blackberries, some strawberries, and raspberries.. and in this field, we need a little work. We also have pear, grapes, wild mullberries, pawpaws, walnuts, hickory, and one huge pecan tree.. I also understand the orchard could be added to.. We have fresh eggs year round, and a Holstein heifer just about old enough to breed. 

Now, with that all said, for a family of 5, we are still nowhere near the 75% range. My question is, what is the single most important thing other than the above mentioned things that has helped you over the hurdles and on to self sufficient homesteading?


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

kycountry said:


> Alright, here's a question for the ones that go above and beyond the main group of 'gardeners' so to speak.
> 
> There seems to be a point where most people can get to without many problems but gets stuck. Like us, we raise a nice sized garden with all the fixings. Potatoes, beans (green and dried), corn, tomatoes, peppers, squash, and so on.. Meats are mainly covered like beef, chicken, deer, rabbits, fish and so on.. we have loads of wild blackberries, some strawberries, and raspberries.. and in this field, we need a little work. We also have pear, grapes, wild mullberries, pawpaws, walnuts, hickory, and one huge pecan tree.. I also understand the orchard could be added to.. We have fresh eggs year round, and a Holstein heifer just about old enough to breed.
> 
> Now, with that all said, for a family of 5, we are still nowhere near the 75% range. My question is, what is the single most important thing other than the above mentioned things that has helped you over the hurdles and on to self sufficient homesteading?


Look close at what you do buy and then figure out if you can grow some of that and if growing it is cost effective. That's what we do. Karla will say, " you know , we sure use a lot of so and so " And I start looking into growing whatever that may be or growing it and being able to process it down to the needed product.

For us, flour, sugar and juice is bought. Our orchard is not old enough to produce and our steer is not big enough to butcher, so we do buy beef. But from here on there will be a steer in the pipeline to be butchered when the previous one runs out. Pork is in the freezer and a shoat will be butchering size when we get close to eating up that one. 

There are 7 of us.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

kycountry said:


> Now, with that all said, for a family of 5, we are still nowhere near the 75% range. My question is, what is the single most important thing other than the above mentioned things that has helped you over the hurdles and on to self sufficient homesteading?


That sounds like just about everything to me, are you lacking in quantity, or is your menu not in line with your bounty? 

One thing I suggest, is rendering lard and tallow, and doing away with vegetable oils and store margarine. If you don't fry much you can make original margarine (not the modern trans fatty recipe) from tallow and milk.

I'm still working my way up. I still buy in most of my meat, but I never buy cooking oil any more.


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## Vosey (Dec 8, 2012)

kycountry, I also wondered about the "menu not in line with your bounty" (beautiful wording by the way!). And BobbyB's advice is excellent. 

Now that we grow such a huge garden I have no desire to eat any veggie from the store. For instance, we won't be eating potatoes until they start coming in in July. I have a few jars left from last year, but too few to eat them now. I haven't had a fresh tomato since October nor a fresh cucumber since summer. It wasn't perfect this year, I did buy some veggies this winter and a 25 lb bag of potatoes, but we're getting there. Every year should get better. But it is easier for 2 than 5! 

And we do buy meat, dairy and grains.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

dlskidmore said:


> That sounds like just about everything to me, are you lacking in quantity, or is your menu not in line with your bounty?
> 
> One thing I suggest, is rendering lard and tallow, and doing away with vegetable oils and store margarine. If you don't fry much you can make original margarine (not the modern trans fatty recipe) from tallow and milk.
> 
> I'm still working my way up. I still buy in most of my meat, but I never buy cooking oil any more.


There were a few things that didn't last through the winter like corn, potatoes, and squash. We will have left over beans and pretty much everything else. But, yes, we stick to the menu of our bounty 99% of the time..

Our biggest expenses are flour, oil, sugar, and grains like rice, oats, and so on. In the winter, we do buy slicing tomatoes, and a few fresh veggies. After that, it's animal feeds, and usually some form of lunch meat for those quick meals when we're in hay or working cattle..


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Your menu is your limiting factor. (Not that I'm being judgemental, I'm not at 90% either.) Grains are optional in the diet if you have enough animal proteins. Oil can be replaced with butter/tallow/lard. Sugar is necessary for preserving, but as a sweetener you could use honey or maple. I grew up on mostly frozen veggies, as we did garden a large percentage of our diet. Fruits we mostly canned. We didn't do animals and we did have a heavy grain diet, so we were nowhere near 90% (although you'd think it if looking at our stores around October, the purchased goods shelves had more turnover, I think only a third of my plate at each meal was home grown.)

If you are really interested in harvesting your own grains on a small scale, I recommend Scythe Supply bookstore: http://www.scythesupply.com/books.html I have "The Scythe Book" which has a good share of the needed info on harvesting grains.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

kycountry said:


> After that, it's animal feeds, and usually some form of lunch meat for those quick meals when we're in hay or working cattle..


Which kinds of animals? I daydream of someday having a worm/fly farm or a cow in milk to handle the protein needs of pigs and chickens, but for now I'm still planning purchased grains. I'm working on growing more of my own feed for my sheep. Last year our hay was not good enough and I had to supplement with beet pulp. This year I'm trying to grow my own fodder beets.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

dlskidmore said:


> Your menu is your limiting factor. (Not that I'm being judgemental, I'm not at 90% either.) Grains are optional in the diet if you have enough animal proteins. Oil can be replaced with butter/tallow/lard. Sugar is necessary for preserving, but as a sweetener you could use honey or maple. I grew up on mostly frozen veggies, as we did garden a large percentage of our diet. Fruits we mostly canned. We didn't do animals and we did have a heavy grain diet, so we were nowhere near 90% (although you'd think it if looking at our stores around October, the purchased goods shelves had more turnover, I think only a third of my plate at each meal was home grown.)
> 
> If you are really interested in harvesting your own grains on a small scale, I recommend Scythe Supply bookstore: http://www.scythesupply.com/books.html I have "The Scythe Book" which has a good share of the needed info on harvesting grains.


I understand that we could live without rice, Mac&cheese and other stuff. But when you have 2 teens, you better find something to stick to their ribs or they'd eat a side of beef a week!

We also have bees for honey.. waiting on the heifer to freshen up before we get another hog..

And if you plan on having a tractor with a pto, google the Alice chamber all crop combine.. after owning one, you will never hand thrash grains again.. at auctions, you can get them fairly cheap.

That or another type combine will be the next thing I add.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

dlskidmore said:


> Which kinds of animals? I daydream of someday having a worm/fly farm or a cow in milk to handle the protein needs of pigs and chickens, but for now I'm still planning purchased grains. I'm working on growing more of my own feed for my sheep. Last year our hay was not good enough and I had to supplement with beet pulp. This year I'm trying to grow my own fodder beets.


right now we are at about 55 head of beef counting cows and calves, 90 chickens of various ages, 3 rabbits, 5 pheasants, 3 **** hounds, 4 horses, 6 bobwhite quail and I think that's it for now..

The beef cows and horses don't count on my homesteading feed bill, that's my job for income.. but comes in handy when it's time to get some beef..


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

kycountry said:


> I understand that we could live without rice, Mac&cheese and other stuff. But when you have 2 teens, you better find something to stick to their ribs or they'd eat a side of beef a week!


Yeah, really not worth growing cardboard boxes if that's your goal.


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## Rustaholic (Dec 1, 2007)

Keep it coming Folks.
I am really liking this.
The one thing I will suggest to anyone that is looking to buy a new piece of land to grow on is to have a soil sample or ten of them checked before you put your name on the line. The first Spring after I built this house a very old guy stopped by and told us how when he was a teen he was working for the farmer that grew potatoes here and never put anything back into the soil. That man so loved our earth that it was all he could do to tell me that and he very solemnly said, "This land is played out."

Right now I have a garden area I am bringing back to life and this year I will get the acre out back cleared off and worked up.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

kycountry said:


> Alright, here's a question for the ones that go above and beyond the main group of 'gardeners' so to speak.
> 
> There seems to be a point where most people can get to without many problems but gets stuck. Like us, we raise a nice sized garden with all the fixings. Potatoes, beans (green and dried), corn, tomatoes, peppers, squash, and so on.. Meats are mainly covered like beef, chicken, deer, rabbits, fish and so on.. we have loads of wild blackberries, some strawberries, and raspberries.. and in this field, we need a little work. We also have pear, grapes, wild mullberries, pawpaws, walnuts, hickory, and one huge pecan tree.. I also understand the orchard could be added to.. We have fresh eggs year round, and a Holstein heifer just about old enough to breed.
> 
> Now, with that all said, for a family of 5, we are still nowhere near the 75% range. My question is, what is the single most important thing other than the above mentioned things that has helped you over the hurdles and on to self sufficient homesteading?


For us, it was getting the children graduated and out of the house. :cowboy:

We were a family of 6 until the children flew the coop. We just kept on adding. The meat (rabbit, beef, pork, chicken, duck, turkey) was easy. The fruit trees (apple, pear, peach, plum, cherry) were easy. The vegetable garden was the tricky part.

Grow what you eat. Find out who grows what you don't grown and barter.

Now that the children are out of the house, I actually grow a more variety, but I still supply not only our own 90% but a goodly percentage of my chldren via canned goods.


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## Homesteader333 (Apr 29, 2014)

I wish that I could grow so much of my own food.. Sadly we only have a small orchard and a small vegetable garden. We are raising some chickens for eggs and if they go broody we will let them hatch the chicks and when they are grown eat them. I think we would come at about 5% of our food. I have bigger dreams for the future!


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Homesteader333, 
You may not be 90% yet, but at least you are doing some, and that's a step in the right direction.
Once you get to the point that what you are going now becomes second nature, add one more. In other words, expand the garden, get rabbits, add more chickens, etc.


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## gweny (Feb 10, 2014)

I would love to grow 90%! I'm just guessing for now what our needs are. Next year I'm hoping to add 2 more large beds and hopefully that will be enough to do it? This year I'm trying out different methods to conserve space and effort. My potato tower is a smashing success already. I hope to have 4 of them next year. I don't have a cellar to store them though so I plan to leave them in the ground and dig up as needed. Even in the coldest months we usually get a decent thaw or two so I think it's doable. If not I will just have to look at building a mini-cellar. I just got chickens this year and plans for rabbits next year. I'm on a tight budget so I've got annual garden expansion projects planned out for the next decade lol! I did however get the last of my fruit trees started this year. I may still add more but the basics are covered. Also starting a mini vineyard next year. It will be at least 5 years till I make it to 90% but I'm chugging along in that direction.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

One thing my mother did to keep our bounty in line with our menu was to keep good records. Every year she would note how many plants she started, how many were planned in the garden, how many quarts/pints/pounds were put up (she did not record fresh usage as that was less measured) and then she would record how many were left over from last year. She could look through her records and see if this was just a poor yielding year or if we increased our usage of something and adjust how much we planted next year.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

dlskidmore said:


> Yeah, really not worth growing cardboard boxes if that's your goal.


Not sure how you meant this....

But no, we haven't planted any cardboard lately.. we use it mainly to start fires with.. We already grow a couple acres of veggies.. Do I leave the noodles in the box? And which end goes up? :hrm:

With beef being my main income, slaughtering 3 more head a year. In this market is $4500 out of our pocket to pay farm payments and so on.. 

When the kids leave, I can feed myself with a shotgun, hoe, and my ol' **** hound.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm keeping track this year of everything I put up. I've done it before,but just the canning. So far just on asparagus- frozen. I still have pickled asp. from last year. I can buy white potatoes for 50lbs-7$. Tho I have always grown them ,this year some of the space is going for more sweet potatoes. Makeing dog food is now a biggie for me, 3 large dogs. SP are very good for them. My newish huge chopping block will be put in use to chop and freeze everything from chard to pumpkins just for the pups.Rice is one thing I have to buy for them, and I use far more rice than flour or sugar. I've used honey for canning instead of sugar, and make maple syrup, which can be used instead of sugar also. Just saying that it seems we have to change up things as we go along , for all kinds of reasons. Even our pups deserve the best food we can provide.


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## siletz (Oct 5, 2010)

gweny said:


> My potato tower is a smashing success already. I hope to have 4 of them next year. I don't have a cellar to store them though so I plan to leave them in the ground and dig up as needed. Even in the coldest months we usually get a decent thaw or two so I think it's doable. If not I will just have to look at building a mini-cellar.


Potatoes don't want to freeze even if they thaw later they will not be good. When I lived in a mobile home with no good storage, I put them in boxes with a few air holes in the back laundry room. If you keep them dark and as cool as possible they will last for months. Just find the coolest place in your house and give it a try.


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

gweny said:


> I would love to grow 90%! I'm just guessing for now what our needs are. Next year I'm hoping to add 2 more large beds and hopefully that will be enough to do it? This year I'm trying out different methods to conserve space and effort. My potato tower is a smashing success already. I hope to have 4 of them next year. I don't have a cellar to store them though so I plan to leave them in the ground and dig up as needed. Even in the coldest months we usually get a decent thaw or two so I think it's doable. If not I will just have to look at building a mini-cellar. I just got chickens this year and plans for rabbits next year. I'm on a tight budget so I've got annual garden expansion projects planned out for the next decade lol! I did however get the last of my fruit trees started this year. I may still add more but the basics are covered. Also starting a mini vineyard next year. It will be at least 5 years till I make it to 90% but I'm chugging along in that direction.


Google trash can root cellars. I've also seen people use broken fridge/freezers and coolers as root cellars. Look into it!


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

So the one thing that kills me about this is money. I have grand plans for everything. Getting bees, goats, cows, big gardens, etc. Money always stops everything. Currently putting away a little every month for the big purchases. By next year the bees and goats should be funded. However that'll stop if we buy the land next to us. At least it will put it all off by a year. I hate the money aspect of this so much!


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

kycountry said:


> Not sure how you meant this....
> 
> But no, we haven't planted any cardboard lately..


I'm meant if boxed mac and cheese is a priority for you, it is not worth growing. (Nothing is impossible, but many things are not worthwhile.)


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

crazyfarm said:


> So the one thing that kills me about this is money.


Seed is very cheap compared to return. Livestock double quickly with regular breeding although a major initial expense. The fence for that livestock though is crazy expensive. I just spent 9k on my sheep pasture. Now that will produce more sheep than I can eat, but I need to have the livestock pay their way. I expect to make good on the expense over ten years and have the fence last another 20 with some repairs. (Installer claimed 50 years, but I'm a pessimist.)


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

crazyfarm said:


> So the one thing that kills me about this is money. I have grand plans for everything. Getting bees, goats, cows, big gardens, etc. Money always stops everything. Currently putting away a little every month for the big purchases. By next year the bees and goats should be funded. However that'll stop if we buy the land next to us. At least it will put it all off by a year. I hate the money aspect of this so much!


Won't need much $ if you start looking now for things you will need- USED. I have Thousands of canning jars -from garage sales, auctions, and have only has 1 new canner -from a wedding gift when I was 18.I bouth 5 bucks worth of stuff at a sale onceand the guy threw in the canner for free,holds 9 quarts or 18 pints. I chose to buy old stuff-it lasts longer and is built for hand use. Also keep looking on net sites such as craigs list for used fenceing, building supplies, ect. Even the free stuff. Arround here, most things are used. Some things ofcourse are new, such as the heavy gauge wire we put up for the cattle.I've bought a 100 ft. roll of special rabbit wire for the bottom of my rabbit cages, because raise Angora rabbits and they get clogged with fiber so I have to burn the fiber off and that ruins the wire faster. Little things like that you learn over time, but the 20+ years I've had them-I still have a good part of that expensive roll. 3 of the 4 greenhouses I've built-made from mostly recycled goods. Dh just got me a used chipper/ leaf vacume for makeing the mulch we usally have to buy for the garden paths. It just needs the blades fliped over to the sharp side. Maybe the guy that sold it -cheep- didn't know that. Save that $ for the things you can't find, used.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

7thswan said:


> Won't need much $ if you start looking now for things you will need- USED. .


But don't get used goats. They go up in price as they are used... <G>


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Pony said:


> But don't get used goats. They go up in price as they are used... <G>


I also advise against free rams, especially if you see the former owner socially.

*stupid stupid stupid*


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

dlskidmore said:


> Seed is very cheap compared to return. Livestock double quickly with regular breeding although a major initial expense. The fence for that livestock though is crazy expensive. I just spent 9k on my sheep pasture. Now that will produce more sheep than I can eat, but I need to have the livestock pay their way. I expect to make good on the expense over ten years and have the fence last another 20 with some repairs. (Installer claimed 50 years, but I'm a pessimist.)


I have a very difficult time convincing my husband that the return is worth the initial expense. I just spent $100 on grape vines. They're planted and will be well worth their price when they produce. My husband still about died. I'd love to start an orchard but convincing the man will be all but impossible. Plus my projects outnumber my means. lol


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

7thswan said:


> Won't need much $ if you start looking now for things you will need- USED. I have Thousands of canning jars -from garage sales, auctions, and have only has 1 new canner -from a wedding gift when I was 18.I bouth 5 bucks worth of stuff at a sale onceand the guy threw in the canner for free,holds 9 quarts or 18 pints. I chose to buy old stuff-it lasts longer and is built for hand use. Also keep looking on net sites such as craigs list for used fenceing, building supplies, ect. Even the free stuff. Arround here, most things are used. Some things ofcourse are new, such as the heavy gauge wire we put up for the cattle.I've bought a 100 ft. roll of special rabbit wire for the bottom of my rabbit cages, because raise Angora rabbits and they get clogged with fiber so I have to burn the fiber off and that ruins the wire faster. Little things like that you learn over time, but the 20+ years I've had them-I still have a good part of that expensive roll. 3 of the 4 greenhouses I've built-made from mostly recycled goods. Dh just got me a used chipper/ leaf vacume for makeing the mulch we usally have to buy for the garden paths. It just needs the blades fliped over to the sharp side. Maybe the guy that sold it -cheep- didn't know that. Save that $ for the things you can't find, used.


Craigslist is a great tool in many areas. Unfortunately I live in the least populated state in the union. So there really isn't much. Pretty much everything I want I'm having to get elsewhere, out of state, online, etc.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

crazyfarm said:


> I'd love to start an orchard but convincing the man will be all but impossible. Plus my projects outnumber my means. lol


Get him to set a budget, or a tit for tat system where money he spends on tools becomes your budget for the garden. Then stick to the budget so he can't complain.

Another thing to do is have a small roadside stand and try to pay for next year's garden out of this year's profits. Start small with a pumpkin patch or the like. One packet of seed goes a long way. 

Sometimes though when doing the math you do need to consider use. Do you already spend that much on grapes? Will you be able to save all that or will you still end up buying them when they are out of season and have too much in season?


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## COWS (Dec 23, 2012)

Used fencing, except for Steel T posts, is not worth the effort. Hopefully the op lives in an area where trees that will make fence posts grow naturally. I only know about what grows here for posts, which is red cedar and black locust. Keep an eye out for used power poles.

Used T posts should be no more than half new price, IMO. Lots of people want more. Example: 5 foot used tposts have been advertised in SC for $3 each. I think that's too high and 5 feet is too short for most uses. I visualized cutting posts into 1 foot sections and welding them on to the 5 foot posts, but lack of need and the $3 price stopped me.

Re the 50 year lifetime for a fence, maybe in a dry climate, but not in wetter parts of the country.

cows


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

dlskidmore said:


> Get him to set a budget, or a tit for tat system where money he spends on tools becomes your budget for the garden. Then stick to the budget so he can't complain.
> 
> Another thing to do is have a small roadside stand and try to pay for next year's garden out of this year's profits. Start small with a pumpkin patch or the like. One packet of seed goes a long way.
> 
> Sometimes though when doing the math you do need to consider use.  Do you already spend that much on grapes? Will you be able to save all that or will you still end up buying them when they are out of season and have too much in season?


I would if he spent. He's not a spender. lol He hoards money like a dragon hoards gold.

As far as how much we spend on grapes, pretty much nothing. I have a strict grocery budget that doesn't allow for a lot of expensive fruits. Since we have kids I want to provide better food and growing it myself seems the most sustainable option.


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

COWS said:


> Used fencing, except for Steel T posts, is not worth the effort. Hopefully the op lives in an area where trees that will make fence posts grow naturally. I only know about what grows here for posts, which is red cedar and black locust. Keep an eye out for used power poles.
> 
> Used T posts should be no more than half new price, IMO. Lots of people want more. Example: 5 foot used tposts have been advertised in SC for $3 each. I think that's too high and 5 feet is too short for most uses. I visualized cutting posts into 1 foot sections and welding them on to the 5 foot posts, but lack of need and the $3 price stopped me.
> 
> ...


Trees don't really grow out in the country where I live without extensive babying. Even then I lose a lot of them in my fence line every year. It's the wind...it kills. Drought doesn't help.


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## Rustaholic (Dec 1, 2007)

dlskidmore said:


> Get him to set a budget, or a tit for tat system where money he spends on tools becomes your budget for the garden. Then stick to the budget so he can't complain.
> 
> Another thing to do is have a small roadside stand and try to pay for next year's garden out of this year's profits. Start small with a pumpkin patch or the like. One packet of seed goes a long way.
> 
> Sometimes though when doing the math you do need to consider use. Do you already spend that much on grapes? Will you be able to save all that or will you still end up buying them when they are out of season and have too much in season?


I can see the value there. I go through $6 in 100% pure grape juice per week.
Spending $100 to eventually save $312 per year is a no-brainer.


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## urban gleaner (Jan 23, 2014)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> This photo is from Spring 2012
> 
> The top two rows, I want to add (2) beds at the end of each row, and the third row, I want to add 1 more bed, make a total of 20--10x3 raised beds.
> To the left, of the last row.....there is about the same amount of space fenced in that you can't see as the raised beds are in.
> ...



How strong are your winds and from what direction? Make an alley on the outside of your fence-double fence-on the sides the wind comes from, and esplanier fruit or nut trees on the outside fence. Make your alley wide enough that you can easily walk down it and get to each tree as it grows.


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## urban gleaner (Jan 23, 2014)

Marilyn said:


> Count me in. I'm already beginning to feel accountable to all of you, thinking about doing a better job of weeding, etc. It will also encourage me to do a better job of weighing produce and keeping better records in general.
> 
> Think I need to figure out how to make seed pots from newspaper tomorrow!



I think all print businesses use soy inks now, but you might want to check-including color inks. If it's not soy based inks, dont use them.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

COWS said:


> Re the 50 year lifetime for a fence, maybe in a dry climate, but not in wetter parts of the country.


Yeah, I suspect the posts at the top of the hill will last 30 years, and the ones at the bottom of the hill will need replacing every 10-15.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

crazyfarm said:


> Since we have kids I want to provide better food and growing it myself seems the most sustainable option.


You're between a rock and a hard place. All you can do is ask him for a budget he won't complain about, and pray carefully about how to spend it.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

urban gleaner said:


> esplanier fruit or nut trees on the outside fence


Quicker but less satisfying in the long run, you could do a willow coppice there. Some places grow willow for fuel, but it has a low energy density compared to other woods. Others coppice for willow withes for weaving and living structures.


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## ChickenChic (May 21, 2014)

I love this post... since we bought our house/property a few months ago we have made some raised beds. We are up to 13 chickens... although I'm sure some are roosters, so they will wind up in the freezer. We are building a second barn for a couple of dairy goats. We will be building a shelter and installing fencing for a few pigs for us and a friends family. Right now we buy our raw milk from another dairy farm on our road and meat from another farm about 30 minutes away...

The goal is to be more self sufficient. I don't know what percentage we will achieve. 

I have started a variety of tomatoes, eggplant, sweet and hot peppers, squash, watermelons, pumpkins, radish, lettuces,carrots, and a variety of herbs...

I also planted baby pecan, peach, cherry trees, and one grape vine so far... plus we have a lot of raspberry bushes in the back of our property. 

I love canning and baking and I've been making all our bread. 

My son uses a ton of ketchup, so I'm going to try to make and can our own from our tomatoes this summer. I will can jam and whatever I can from the garden. 

This is our first year, so I hope to increase every coming year...

We are in Northwest Connecticut. Zone 6.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

ChicChic, sounds like you are well on your way. Just work your garden this year and while doing so, start planning next years garden. Add more chickens, meat birds and more layers. Sell excess eggs, can more veggies, etc, etc.


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## gweny (Feb 10, 2014)

crazyfarm said:


> Google trash can root cellars. I've also seen people use broken fridge/freezers and coolers as root cellars. Look into it!


I will, thanks!


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

............


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

well produceing my own food has become just part of the routine here . after getting canning and the beef cow pork chickens, massive gardens and dairy goat established and more fruit trees growing . the trick is to just keep adding more of the things you like to the homestead honey bees ' sourgum kane , . I will admit to spending cash at the feed store and on junk food .but I really would not have to leave the farm for months if I didn't need fuel for the tractor( and a junk food habit) .I always try to grow to much that way if something goes wrong I may still have enough, if they go well I can sell or give away extras .remember canning and freezeing are a big part of not only gardening but animal husbandry as well


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## Rustaholic (Dec 1, 2007)

arnie said:


> well produceing my own food has become just part of the routine here . after getting canning and the beef cow pork chickens, massive gardens and dairy goat established and more fruit trees growing . the trick is to just keep adding more of the things you like to the homestead honey bees ' sourgum kane , . I will admit to spending cash at the feed store and on junk food .but I really would not have to leave the farm for months if I didn't need fuel for the tractor( and a junk food habit) .I always try to grow to much that way if something goes wrong I may still have enough, if they go well I can sell or give away extras .remember canning and freezeing are a big part of not only gardening but animal husbandry as well


Arnie, Will you please show us a more complete picture of that goat milker?
And, Why not have two of them going?


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

Rustaholic said:


> Arnie, Will you please show us a more complete picture of that goat milker?
> And, Why not have two of them going?


I am pretty sure that is a fruit jar hand milker. This image isn't mine.. it's from the web.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

yes that is a fruit jar milker they work with a hand powered vacume pump ; just look at "milkers" on ebay and lots will pop up some even have battery powered pumps . and also yes I could use two or even add a T and another teat cup( which is actually a big syrindge without the plundger ). but the way i'm doing it works fine I get to spend a few more mins. quiet time with the goat .I did adapt my oranganal milker up from a quart jar to a half gallon to not have to switch jars mid milking . 
I hand milked a gentile giant brown swiss cow for years ,and with plenty of pasture and hay here; this was a great system raiseing her angus cross calf every year filled the freezer and a pig grew really well on the extra milk as well . But I lost her to old age it seems last spring . the shock of the prices "BROKE TO HAND MILK " dairy cows are bringing along with me not really needing that much milk led me to try a dairy goat even though I do have to keep her in the barn with my old fenceing .I find that she doesn't eat that much . and I still have a angus cow to raise a calf for beef on pasture . though I am still in the market for a milk cow and will likely raise a dairy heifer calf because with so much grass and hay this is my least expencive with less labor option for milk . till then the goat is fitting in well and the milker along with the wooden stand saves my back


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

gweny said:


> I will, thanks!


I got to thinking that Ruth Stout simply put a straw bale on top of her root veggies while they were still in the ground. Not sure how cold her area got though....


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## siletz (Oct 5, 2010)

crazyfarm said:


> As far as how much we spend on grapes, pretty much nothing. I have a strict grocery budget that doesn't allow for a lot of expensive fruits. Since we have kids I want to provide better food and growing it myself seems the most sustainable option.


I hear ya! It's not always easy to figure out where it's all coming from. One thing that has worked for me is to start with the vegetable garden and add one long term investment (orchard) item each year. That way you can baby it the first year and get it off to a good start. By far, a vegetable garden gives you the quickest return on your investment. We save so much money each year by growing it ourselves and the bonus is that I know where it came from and how it was grown. If you have the room, potatoes (or sweet potatoes if you are in a hot climate) are a great crop that can keep you well fed through the winter. Stagger your plantings to get a longer fresh harvest and learn how to can if you don't already. Be careful when taking on animals as well. Economically they do not always pay for themselves depending on how much food you need to buy for them.


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

siletz said:


> I hear ya! It's not always easy to figure out where it's all coming from. One thing that has worked for me is to start with the vegetable garden and add one long term investment (orchard) item each year. That way you can baby it the first year and get it off to a good start. By far, a vegetable garden gives you the quickest return on your investment. We save so much money each year by growing it ourselves and the bonus is that I know where it came from and how it was grown. If you have the room, potatoes (or sweet potatoes if you are in a hot climate) are a great crop that can keep you well fed through the winter. Stagger your plantings to get a longer fresh harvest and learn how to can if you don't already. Be careful when taking on animals as well. Economically they do not always pay for themselves depending on how much food you need to buy for them.


I have a modest veggie garden going this year. We will see what happens with it. I do hope to set up a full orchard. Been doing my research on what grows here. So far I've bought the grapes and got strawberry and raspberry starts for free from other people. So that's 3 long term projects for us. I'm babying the grapes the most. I have big dreams for them! I'm sure when my husband is eating all our fresh food he'll appreciate the expense a bit more! I'm really quite anxious to get my tree orchard in though. Fresh apples and such are such a dream! We will just see if my grape protection works. If it does then we might be able to plant some trees that survive.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Oh, I forgot the biggest change we made this year to increase our food production. Hubby normally does not take much interest in the farm, but I've occasionally bought farm fresh eggs which he likes, so he asked me if we could get chickens. They are in our brooder now.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

:croc:


crazyfarm said:


> I got to thinking that Ruth Stout simply put a straw bale on top of her root veggies while they were still in the ground. Not sure how cold her area got though....


a root cellar is a great addition to a homestead we built ours by digging into a steeper hillside and burying three sides but potatoes will keep from 1 harvest to the next and canned goods kept from freezing . along with many other things apples cabbage .it was a good investment :happy2:


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

arnie said:


> :croc:
> 
> a root cellar is a great addition to a homestead we built ours by digging into a steeper hillside and burying three sides but potatoes will keep from 1 harvest to the next and canned goods kept from freezing . along with many other things apples cabbage .it was a good investment :happy2:


I have super flat land. lol I'd have to build a hill first! I would love to build a root cellar though. It's just be a rather big undertaking for us.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

:nanner:


crazyfarm said:


> I have super flat land. lol I'd have to build a hill first! I would love to build a root cellar though. It's just be a rather big undertaking for us.


level land has so many advantages not having to worry about tipping the tiller or tractor over come to mind  .I have read that god made these rocky steep hills so poor people could afford land though .


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

arnie said:


> :nanner:
> 
> level land has so many advantages not having to worry about tipping the tiller or tractor over come to mind  .I have read that god made these rocky steep hills so poor people could afford land though .


That's so funny since it's the rich people that have built on the few hills we have. They get to look over the city from their superior perch. 

You have beautiful land!

This is ours front and back:


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Hilly land rich land near the city, poor land out where I live. The hill land also tends to be smaller lots.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

I grow things in what we call patches or spots level enough to cultivate I have my 1 acre garden in front of my house near the barn yard to grow things like sweet corn that need protection from the raccon and deer as do my chickens and rabbits and honey bees need protection as every varmit from skunks to bears like the easy meals offered up on a homestead .this job falls on my faithful Mt. cur dogs who allow no varmits near . then tomatoes peas cucumbers that the chickens love but arn't bothered by deer or **** much are grown farther from home in another patch . most old homesteads were built in hallars or small vallys between the ridges as is mine ,this way the spring water can be piped in with gravity power there is a spring fed creek also so watering the livestock is not a problem I also have a gasoline powered pump to water the garden with if need be .


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

arnie said:


> I grow things in what we call patches or spots level enough to cultivate I have my 1 acre garden in front of my house near the barn yard to grow things like sweet corn that need protection from the raccon and deer as do my chickens and rabbits and honey bees need protection as every varmit from skunks to bears like the easy meals offered up on a homestead .this job falls on my faithful Mt. cur dogs who allow no varmits near . then tomatoes peas cucumbers that the chickens love but arn't bothered by deer or **** much are grown farther from home in another patch . most old homesteads were built in hallars or small vallys between the ridges as is mine ,this way the spring water can be piped in with gravity power there is a spring fed creek also so watering the livestock is not a problem I also have a gasoline powered pump to water the garden with if need be .


I love it! Just tell me that pig isn't in your house.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

crazyfarm said:


> I love it! Just tell me that pig isn't in your house.


What would be wrong with that?? LOL.. grandpa always said 'if it's clean enough for the skillet, it's clean enough to eat from the table'.

But I'm not sure that's what he meant.. lol


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Arnie, in the last pic, is that sorghum?

I'm looking at it on my phone so the pic is small, I cant tell if it is sorghum or sweet corn.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

you got it Dixie bee ; we were cutting kane to make mallases ANd crazyfarm no that friendly pig was an excape artist refuseing to stay in her lot just hung around the farm yard like a dog she was mooching potato chips from my cousin at the picnic table during the stir off ;till I put her back in her lot . her talent at sliping through the fence even with electric led to her trip to the butcher a couple months earlir than planed for extra tender pork .one thing about those cute little pigs they grow into pushy obnoxisous hogs extreamly intelligent by bribeing them to follow you back into the pen with food;you actulay train them that excapeing leads to a treat and they discover its fun to play with the calves in pasture steal chicken food and root for worms under the rabbit cages .though I also was at fault for treating her like a pet talking to her as she followed the tractor to feed the cows and laphing as she bathed in the creek . the first pic is the old kane mill made by catanogga plow company in 1917 still works like new but we riged it up to run off the tractor hydrolics instead of the horse and in the next pic i'm skimmimg the mallases at the evaporator pan and furnace ; all which we have along with a giant picnic table under a a shed we built with treesand poles blown over on the farm tat spring ,and the tin roof came from a old (some say haunted) house someone tore down near here the tin cost us 50 $ so that and the nails was the only expence . the next is the rabbit shed built in the shade of some big trees next to the creek was ms.porkys favorite hangout while on the loose . that last pic is of blackberry dumplings and homemade ice cream ; letting mother nature help us out in growing part of our food for us can be a big help ;and add some tasty viriaty to our table last year was a great season for wild vitamin loaded berrys, as well as tame fruits


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## Rustaholic (Dec 1, 2007)

arnie said:


> yes that is a fruit jar milker they work with a hand powered vacume pump ; just look at "milkers" on ebay and lots will pop up some even have battery powered pumps . and also yes I could use two or even add a T and another teat cup( which is actually a big syrindge without the plundger ). but the way i'm doing it works fine I get to spend a few more mins. quiet time with the goat .I did adapt my oranganal milker up from a quart jar to a half gallon to not have to switch jars mid milking .
> I hand milked a gentile giant brown swiss cow for years ,and with plenty of pasture and hay here; this was a great system raiseing her angus cross calf every year filled the freezer and a pig grew really well on the extra milk as well . But I lost her to old age it seems last spring . the shock of the prices "BROKE TO HAND MILK " dairy cows are bringing along with me not really needing that much milk led me to try a dairy goat even though I do have to keep her in the barn with my old fenceing .I find that she doesn't eat that much . and I still have a angus cow to raise a calf for beef on pasture . though I am still in the market for a milk cow and will likely raise a dairy heifer calf because with so much grass and hay this is my least expencive with less labor option for milk . till then the goat is fitting in well and the milker along with the wooden stand saves my back


Thank you both for the replies. If you are going to hand pump that vacuum pump why not just hand milk the goat? I have a very nice small electric pump and when I can get a milk goat I will make a milker like this with the pump. I will use a gallon jar and two lines. I will wait until I find the goat to go after the teat cups so I know what size I need. The milk goat I had years ago was a French Alpine and that large syringe never would have fit her udders.


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## Rustaholic (Dec 1, 2007)

crazyfarm said:


> That's so funny since it's the rich people that have built on the few hills we have. They get to look over the city from their superior perch.
> 
> You have beautiful land!
> 
> This is ours front and back:


That is funny Crazyfarm. Back around 1992 I was working for Town & Country Cedar Homes near Petoskey, Michigan and still had my CDL so I got to drive a company truck to Missouri to drop a load off and go to my cousin's wedding. The drop off was for the John & Trudy Valentine house across the Missouri River from my cousin's place. 
Trudy's parents practically owned Anheuser-Busch brewing company.
They bought property high up a huge valley then bought all the land they could see from their property. The only place they couldn't buy was a farm owned by an old man that did not need or want their money. They just paid for an option so they got it from the estate when that old farmer died.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Pony said:


> But don't get used goats. They go up in price as they are used... <G>


Someone round here has an ad in CL asking for free used critters-I suppose they do quite well.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

Rustaholic said:


> Thank you both for the replies. If you are going to hand pump that vacuum pump why not just hand milk the goat? I have a very nice small electric pump and when I can get a milk goat I will make a milker like this with the pump. I will use a gallon jar and two lines. I will wait until I find the goat to go after the teat cups so I know what size I need. The milk goat I had years ago was a French Alpine and that large syringe never would have fit her udders.


:hysterical:you don't have to constantly squeeze the pump ;just enough to create a vacume then only to keep things flowing . for an old timer with a bad back it saves lots of bend over time , the closed jar also avoids any hair bugs or a foot from contaminateing your milk , I milked a cow by hand for many years spent milking time with my head pressed to her side for 15 mins. twice a day hot cold wet and dry , and now enjoy brushing her or filling her hay manger instead of hand milking :cowboy:


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Arnie, I love the pics of your place. How much land do you have and of that, how much is devoted to gardening?


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

thanks theres a few hundred acres .mostly wooded hillsides with one garden being almost an acre and two more about 1/4 acre the cane patch may be over an acre . there is one mile of dirt farm road to get to the state road and my first neighbor, one reason not to get excited ifthe pig gets out of its pen . and why the cur dogs are needed to keep the varmits away . I sure don't have to worry about a chicken getting run over by a car  .


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

love the pics arnie....i can tell we are neighbors from the pics...lots of vertical land.

love them mt.curs.


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## Rustaholic (Dec 1, 2007)

arnie said:


> :hysterical:you don't have to constantly squeeze the pump ;just enough to create a vacume then only to keep things flowing . for an old timer with a bad back it saves lots of bend over time , the closed jar also avoids any hair bugs or a foot from contaminateing your milk , I milked a cow by hand for many years spent milking time with my head pressed to her side for 15 mins. twice a day hot cold wet and dry , and now enjoy brushing her or filling her hay manger instead of hand milking :cowboy:


I didn't figure you had to constantly keep pumping it. That is because you have the vacuum gauge that tells you when it needs more pumping.
One of the main reasons I like that system is the closed jar. I do see it even more out of kicking range though. When I make mine I will use a vacuum gauge and switch to turn the pump on and off. The vacuum pump will be under the stand in a box. The jar will have a pocket to set it in on the side of the stand. When I had my milk goat I had a milk stand similar to yours but I always used a stool to sit on. I sold that nice stand when I sold the goats.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

with the early spring hatched chicks soon to reach fryer size , cucumbers starting to climb, the potatoes and tomatoes blooming away . are you ancious to start bringing stuff straight from the garden to table yet .


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

i am ready to start making refrigerator pickles and i need to make a batch of 14 day or what many call icicle pickles....they are great.

i like to load the refrigerator down with refrigerator pickles late in season so i can eat as far into winter as i can.

this year i am going to drop in a hill here and there along to try and keep them coming.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

We had about 2-2.5 inches of rain yesterday, so today I waded through the mud of my gardens.
Tomatoes are blooming, have a few peppers forming, cucumbers are trying to produce, cabbage looks great, pea pods are starting to fill out.
Now I just need to do more weeding around my green beans.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

We also had rain,finaly. Dragging hoses thru the gardens has gotten old. It has been unusally dry here, the grass looks like it's july.Cammomile is ready to harvest. The hoophouse is done, except for the 5 Purple Royality Rasperrys I planted in there that I got from the county sale. They will go in one of the new raised beds I built daybefore yesterday-to be filled with rabbit manure and cleanings from the chicken coop. 3 bakeing sheets filled with blanched asparagus are frozen in the freezer,they will be bagged and vac sealed today.One of my French Copper Marans is setting and in a seperate coop a Lavendar Orpington is setting.Angora rabbits need shearing real soon and the bottles will be going in the freezer for the upcomeing heat waves.The do list is very long in the spring.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

Rain here also . I had to move the pig ;now a big shoat I should say from its little pen to the big lot I, been getting broicokli lettice n green onions from the garden and added a few more tomato plants while attempting to hoe weeds in the cane yesterday hope4ing to extend the season with some late planting . this seems to be a good start to the growing season things are comeing along well . my gardens tend to do better in dryer seasons than when it rains a lot (like last year) I can water every thing with the pump and hoses from the creek though it is added labor . all this rain this week was welcomed by the pasture grass and cow it seemed to green up over night .


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## Grandmotherbear (May 15, 2002)

I have 5 - 18 gallon pots planted to arrowhead wapato, and 3 to narrow leafed wapato- come autumn we'll see how we like the taste of the tubers. The narrowleafs tubers are the size of garbanzo beans so I am going to treat them like beans. I also discovered a source for the edible-rooted lotus- the owner suggested I would do better growing them in children's wading pools than in 18 gallon pots. I'll get fresh rootstock in the fall. I am going to send to the trash the plastic pots are breaking away from 12-15 years of use and repurpose these larger tubs as small raised beds. This is the last year dealing with 2-3 inch lotus roots in stir fry!!

Stinkbugs are laying eggs in the cowpeas. Seem to be less of them this year. Last year I didn't do much in the way of a summer crop because I had a 6 month case of bursitis that hit the end of June. When I tried to do extensive summer gardening in the past I wound up with a bumper crop of insect pests that also ravaged the fall/winter gardens. Guess I will have to plan an every-other-fallow-summer rotation.
So far the rain is 6 inches above normal. All the tomatoes are cracking and i'm quite sure if I tried to dig any sweet potatoes they'de be cracked also. The fig tree seems to like it tho.
Collards starting to wilt in the heat and whenever the bushes dry out I try to pick more pigeon peas. Those pigeon peas LOVE this climate! (and are so much better than storebought!)


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Grandmotherbear, my Sis sent me some Malarbar spinach from Fl. she growes it there. Grows like crazy, it's a vine, and flowers so she easly gets seeds. It takes a bit to start growing here, but once it gets hot out-get out of the way! I'll always grow it, it's very prolific.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

some of my brokoli is doing great forming nice darkgreen solid chunks others are sprouting up and booming ; and my cabbage -a couple plants look like lace where the bugs have eatin away on them while others go untuched ; I was trying to avoid it but I went down the row a dusted with seiven ,I gave the tomatoesa shot while I was at it / darned them bugs


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

Some one told me that they could buy taters cheaper than they could grow them. I bought 8 pounds of seed for less than a buck a pound, watered usually once a week for 2 hours with a soaker hose and picked up more than 80 pounds of taters including Yukon gold. That's bout a dime a pound. They taste much better too!


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

I'm in but i'm cheating as i'v been growing my own for 6 years now I plant much more than I could eat can lots ; once you get the routineand housing built for the meat animals you got it made .I now have a beef cow that has a calf every year for the freezer . and a big pig lot to grow my hog, in I hatch my own chickens .raise rabbits and am now milking a goat.it sounds like a lot but the daily livestock care can be done in about an hour includeing milking . of course some days are devoted to making hay plowing and planting or canning . but that's not really that bad the garden usally takes only a few hours a week . I am so very lucky to have a cannery in our county for residents to use at a very low cost. so when there isa bumper crop of corn or apples we can use all there equipment and cookers to make big jobs easy . they even have all the tools of a butcher shop to make your own sausage and steaks .though I send my own beef n hog to slaughter house the option is there to save cash . you can use your own jars or purchase tin cans at cost . today was a big day for me in the garden as I got my first big red tomato of the year .


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

arnie said:


> I'm in but i'm cheating as i'v been growing my own for 6 years now I plant much more than I could eat can lots ; once you get the routineand housing built for the meat animals you got it made .I now have a beef cow that has a calf every year for the freezer . and a big pig lot to grow my hog, in I hatch my own chickens .raise rabbits and am now milking a goat.it sounds like a lot but the daily livestock care can be done in about an hour includeing milking . of course some days are devoted to making hay plowing and planting or canning . but that's not really that bad the garden usally takes only a few hours a week . I am so very lucky to have a cannery in our county for residents to use at a very low cost. so when there isa bumper crop of corn or apples we can use all there equipment and cookers to make big jobs easy . they even have all the tools of a butcher shop to make your own sausage and steaks .though I send my own beef n hog to slaughter house the option is there to save cash . you can use your own jars or purchase tin cans at cost . today was a big day for me in the garden as I got my first big red tomato of the year .


Hey that's neat. I'd love to hear more about the cannery deal. I'd love to see if we could get one in my county.


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## bigjon (Oct 2, 2013)

we're probly at 50% with atwo acre garden,tomatos/peppers/potatos/cukes/winter squashes(4)kinds,added strawberries-rhubarb-dill and horseradish.the cold got my peach and apple trees!time to replant!between freezing and canning last fall we're down to 5assorted quart jars left&2qts of chili sauce/2qts of pickles!


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Big john, you sound like you are about on par with me. We are down to a dozen or so jars of jelly and jam, and a few pints of pickles, few pints of salsa, and 3 or 4 pints of tomato juice, and maybe 3 or 4 quarts of green beans. We ran out of about everything else one to two months ago, but that just shows us how much we need to increase production this year.
But, this year I have already done one batch, I think 8 jars, of raspberry jam, 4 gallons of maple syrup, 7 pints of beets and one pint of banana peppers. Will start picking green beans tomorrow.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

getting a few tomatoes and the sweet corn is taller than I . I too may be canning beans next weekend as they' only need to fill out some more


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Nice maters!
Mine are growing, but doubt any will be ripe for a few weeks.


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## Twobottom (Sep 29, 2013)

Way to go Arnie. I'm doing likewise. You have a great climate down there and good land from what I can tell. Looks like you are hard at work.


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## Tea_mama (Nov 7, 2012)

I've been looking over this post for the past few hours, longing to be at 90% produced. We are far from it, but trying our hardest. Unfortunately, "life" has a way of keeping us from those dreams at this point. We have two teenagers and a baby girl who consume a lot of food. Both DH and I work full time and it's a challenge trying to keep the balance. We bought just under 25 acres in Northern Ca two years ago. We have a few trees going, a small garden and hope to have chickens and a pig in the spring. We have cows on the pasture, though they aren't ours. For now, our neighbor leases the pasture and in exchange, we get a beef out of the deal. I try to make as much as I can (bread, english muffins, jam, sauces, etc) but it's challenging. I see all of these farms achieving what I hope we can soon enough. I'm hoping that in a few years, I will be teaching in a classroom and that will allow for my DH to be free to run the farm and help to raise our own food (and cut down on childcare!). 

Does anyone know of any good resources for finding out how much of each veggie/fruit we need to grow to maintain our family? For example, if we eat green beans 2x per week and each serving is 1/2 cup (but there are 5 in our family-two of which eat twice what I do), that is 3.5 cups/meal so 7 cups/week.....7X52=364 cups of green beans...but I have no idea how many plants that is! I'm new to this! I know most will end up canned, but I LOVE fresh green beans so much more and want to utilize as much as possible (oops, I seem to have veered off subject). Anyway, any resource that helps give an approximate yield/plant would be helpful


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## Twobottom (Sep 29, 2013)

Tea_mama said:


> I've been looking over this post for the past few hours, longing to be at 90% produced. We are far from it, but trying our hardest. Unfortunately, "life" has a way of keeping us from those dreams at this point. We have two teenagers and a baby girl who consume a lot of food. Both DH and I work full time and it's a challenge trying to keep the balance. We bought just under 25 acres in Northern Ca two years ago. We have a few trees going, a small garden and hope to have chickens and a pig in the spring. We have cows on the pasture, though they aren't ours. For now, our neighbor leases the pasture and in exchange, we get a beef out of the deal. I try to make as much as I can (bread, english muffins, jam, sauces, etc) but it's challenging. I see all of these farms achieving what I hope we can soon enough. I'm hoping that in a few years, I will be teaching in a classroom and that will allow for my DH to be free to run the farm and help to raise our own food (and cut down on childcare!).
> 
> Does anyone know of any good resources for finding out how much of each veggie/fruit we need to grow to maintain our family? For example, if we eat green beans 2x per week and each serving is 1/2 cup (but there are 5 in our family-two of which eat twice what I do), that is 3.5 cups/meal so 7 cups/week.....7X52=364 cups of green beans...but I have no idea how many plants that is! I'm new to this! I know most will end up canned, but I LOVE fresh green beans so much more and want to utilize as much as possible (oops, I seem to have veered off subject). Anyway, any resource that helps give an approximate yield/plant would be helpful


It's so hard to calculate nutritional needs per plant per serving etc. The variation between individual plants is huge and each year is different. I've just come to the conclusion that I need about 1/3 of an acre to basically cover all my vegetables for the year. I know we will go through some lambs, chickens, eggs and rabbit this year but have no idea how much. I'm still not at the 90% mark, and wont be until our cow freshens and some other things come through.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Tea_mama said:


> Does anyone know of any good resources for finding out how much of each veggie/fruit we need to grow to maintain our family? For example, if we eat green beans 2x per week and each serving is 1/2 cup (but there are 5 in our family-two of which eat twice what I do), that is 3.5 cups/meal so 7 cups/week.....7X52=364 cups of green beans...but I have no idea how many plants that is! I'm new to this! I know most will end up canned, but I LOVE fresh green beans so much more and want to utilize as much as possible (oops, I seem to have veered off subject). Anyway, any resource that helps give an approximate yield/plant would be helpful


Here are a couple of places to start:

http://www.harvesttotable.com/2011/06/vegetable_crop_yields_plants_p/

http://www.harvesttotable.com/2011/06/estimating_yields_of_vegetable/

and, last but not least, MEN:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/food-self-sufficiency-zm0z12onzkon.aspx

It's all trial and error. You're further ahead than you were a few years ago, and in a couple of years, you'll be even further along the path.

Good luck!


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## Tea_mama (Nov 7, 2012)

Awesome, thank you both so much! From what I have gathered, record keeping is vital to being successful - that is, tracking what and where and how much. Obviously there is room for variation based on things out of our control (weather, water, etc), but I'm hoping to find a rhythm...just wasn't sure where to start!


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

I wish I could remember who made it, but floating around the house is a little slide-thingy guide that shows you how much to plant and when. You can set it for your own USDA zone. 

If I remember (ha!) I will look for it tonight.


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

Tea_mama said:


> I've been looking over this post for the past few hours, longing to be at 90% produced. We are far from it, but trying our hardest. Unfortunately, "life" has a way of keeping us from those dreams at this point. We have two teenagers and a baby girl who consume a lot of food. Both DH and I work full time and it's a challenge trying to keep the balance. We bought just under 25 acres in Northern Ca two years ago. We have a few trees going, a small garden and hope to have chickens and a pig in the spring. We have cows on the pasture, though they aren't ours. For now, our neighbor leases the pasture and in exchange, we get a beef out of the deal. I try to make as much as I can (bread, english muffins, jam, sauces, etc) but it's challenging. I see all of these farms achieving what I hope we can soon enough. I'm hoping that in a few years, I will be teaching in a classroom and that will allow for my DH to be free to run the farm and help to raise our own food (and cut down on childcare!).
> 
> Does anyone know of any good resources for finding out how much of each veggie/fruit we need to grow to maintain our family? For example, if we eat green beans 2x per week and each serving is 1/2 cup (but there are 5 in our family-two of which eat twice what I do), that is 3.5 cups/meal so 7 cups/week.....7X52=364 cups of green beans...but I have no idea how many plants that is! I'm new to this! I know most will end up canned, but I LOVE fresh green beans so much more and want to utilize as much as possible (oops, I seem to have veered off subject). Anyway, any resource that helps give an approximate yield/plant would be helpful


Plant yield has way to many variables and even from year to year at the same location. Books at the library might help you to know about what to expect with perfect conditions. For Green beans I'd count how many cans of them you use a week for the year. You'll need that many canned green beans. Be aware that different types yield different amounts and have different tastes. I usually buy blue lake at the store but I didn't do good with them here at least yet. Other varieties have better taste and yield. So I'm gonna venture into the unknown.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

As far as green beans, I plant Top Crop. I have 15, 28 foot rows. Been picking for about a week now, on average I can pick about a 5 gallon bucket full per day.
So far, I have canned 35 quarts and frozen probably 6 or 7 quarts.
Hope that helps.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

We plant tender green and yellow wax bush beans. 2 rows of each. We can in pints, about 100 a year. 60 green, 40 wax, that is about the difference in production between them. We have 36 left. I like to plant more than enough so we get more cans per picking. When we have the canning done then I start pulling and feeding to the animals. But I continue to pick for the animals and fresh for us, too....James


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

jwal10 said:


> We plant tender green and yellow wax bush beans. 2 rows of each. We can in pints, about 100 a year. 60 green, 40 wax, that is about the difference in production between them. We have 36 left. I like to plant more than enough so we get more cans per picking. When we have the canning done then I start pulling and feeding to the animals. But I continue to pick for the animals and fresh for us, too....James


Now that sounds very smart. I like it!


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Couldn't find that calculator last night, but did find this resource on Johnny's Seeds. 

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/t-interactivetools.aspx


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

WAIT! LOOK! I found it!!!

http://cdmplanning.hypermart.net/


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

canned peaches today


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Arnie those look wonderful.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> Arnie those look wonderful.


there would of been a few more jars but those white ones were extra perfect and to hard to resist eating right out of hand and driping all over my shirt ig:


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

arnie said:


> there would of been a few more jars but those white ones were extra perfect and to hard to resist eating right out of hand and driping all over my shirt ig:


If you ain't got sweet sticky juices dripping from your beard, the peaches ain't ripe enough. Hope I can find a good deal on some peaches this year so I can can some.

Hopefully within a couple years my trees will be producing.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Pony said:


> WAIT! LOOK! I found it!!!
> 
> http://cdmplanning.hypermart.net/


I ordered one, came today.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

1/2 runner beans, pork , cornbread ,sweet corn, matos ,cucombers all home grown supper tonight .ground my own corn ,n wheat for the bread only the salt and bakeing soda were bought .


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

I canned up blackberrys yesterday picked on the farm growing wild . they are a "Super food" loaded with vitamins and taste great they will spark up a dull meal this winter and help keep you healthy


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Arnie, do you have a large family to eat all that produce and canned vegetables? That is one problem I had when growing a large garden, it was just myself and my son at home and with just two of us, we didn't need a large garden, but on the other hand, planting a small garden just didn't seem right 

when my son left for college, I practically quit having a garden as I had to keep the place running and work. Now I garden in containers while my husband and I look at land, but again, only 2 people, one of which does not eat vegetables unless in a salad, seems like a big garden is just too much for two people. But I do miss canning and still have all my canning gear and my wood cookstove that I used some to make jellies, jams and pickles on. Love your pics and the cane syrup reminds me of living with my granny and she always had cane syrup (ribbon cane, she called it) and biscuits. Good eating!


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## Homesteader (Jul 13, 2002)

Okay for this year, 100% of: potatoes, peppers, dill, onions. Carrots are not harvested yet so I just don't know what percentage of those we'll end up with.

Tomatoes this year no, just a little leftover from fresh eating. Last year though, I put up probably a two year supply of sauce, so I think we're okay there.

Beans are iffy, as I keep getting lots of growth, but not many beans. Tried a bunch of different varieties and made the mistake of not planting enough of the tried and trues, which for us are the yellow wax beans. But the bean patch may still surprise me.

Cucumbers, struggled and had three re-plantings so harvest is not in on that yet.

Peas - we at them all fresh so that's a no - wait til next year! Asparagus is a huge harvest but we don't like it canned. I have not tried freezing it though, or dehydrating it either so while I think it's a years' supply in the garden, we end up giving a lot of it away. Next year maybe I can get it dehydrated. Good for soups and stews.

Eggs: 100%


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

although I have a huge amount of family and generations of kin . its just me on the farm yet I grow lots of stuff giving away much more than I use . like yousay who could plant less than 100 tomato plants 
but its better to hae way to much to share than not have enough last year the cows got in my corn but with the cellar loaded it was not the end of the world .and one way of getting your city living loved ones to visit is to get em hooked on apple butter and home made sausage :run::run:


sidepasser said:


> Arnie, do you have a large family to eat all that produce and canned vegetables? That is one problem I had when growing a large garden, it was just myself and my son at home and with just two of us, we didn't need a large garden, but on the other hand, planting a small garden just didn't seem right
> 
> when my son left for college, I practically quit having a garden as I had to keep the place running and work. Now I garden in containers while my husband and I look at land, but again, only 2 people, one of which does not eat vegetables unless in a salad, seems like a big garden is just too much for two people. But I do miss canning and still have all my canning gear and my wood cookstove that I used some to make jellies, jams and pickles on. Love your pics and the cane syrup reminds me of living with my granny and she always had cane syrup (ribbon cane, she called it) and biscuits. Good eating!


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## idigbeets (Sep 3, 2011)

You don't have mice issues w/ all those taters on the basement floor?


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

no that is my root cellar its buried on 3 sides in a hillside with tight wire under the roofing I only dumped them from the wheel barell on the floor temerarly till I got time to go through and kinda sort them into the wooden bins, with this years potatoes already ready to eat there are still lots of very edible ones in the bin on the yet to do list is building a smoke house on top of the cellar which is why the temp roofing


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

arnie said:


> I canned up blackberrys yesterday picked on the farm growing wild . they are a "Super food" loaded with vitamins and taste great they will spark up a dull meal this winter and help keep you healthy


Did you can those blackberries with syrup, or just crushed berries?


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

I made a light syrup about 3/4 cup of sugar to a quart of water , after I filled the jars with berrys it took about 1/2 pint per jar to cover them . then I used the hot water bath method to can. I let them boil for 30 mins. as it was late and I had 3 canners going at once (my 21 quart pressure canners minues the weight and not locking the lid on ) I just turned off the heat and left them alone all night removeing them in the morning evert jar sealed perfictly


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## vancom (May 5, 2006)

arnie said:


> I canned up blackberrys yesterday picked on the farm growing wild . they are a "Super food" loaded with vitamins and taste great they will spark up a dull meal this winter and help keep you healthy



we picked our, too! I was amazed at the amounts...we froze a bunch and made jam, too. what a gift-there for the pick'n!


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

arnie said:


> I made a light syrup about 3/4 cup of sugar to a quart of water , after I filled the jars with berrys it took about 1/2 pint per jar to cover them . then I used the hot water bath method to can. I let them boil for 30 mins. as it was late and I had 3 canners going at once (my 21 quart pressure canners minues the weight and not locking the lid on ) I just turned off the heat and left them alone all night removeing them in the morning evert jar sealed perfictly


Thanks.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Arnie, I have to say, I am absolutely amazed and impressed by all of your root growing and preserving. I strive to one day be as sufficient as you.


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## AprilM (Jul 23, 2008)

arnie said:


> no that is my root cellar its buried on 3 sides in a hillside with tight wire under the roofing I only dumped them from the wheel barell on the floor temerarly till I got time to go through and kinda sort them into the wooden bins, with this years potatoes already ready to eat there are still lots of very edible ones in the bin on the yet to do list is building a smoke house on top of the cellar which is why the temp roofing


Do you insulate your roof? If so, is the insulation on top of the wire or underneath? We love our cellar, but after a few years are having mice problems.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

the 1/4 inch hardwate cloth wire is on top of the insulation under the temporary tin roof the celing is 1inch foil faced stirefoam and fiber glass between the raftors . I think I may remove the fiberglass when I build the smoke house on top and use stirefoam between the raftors and i'm trying to figure out a better ventilation system as now I get a lot of condenceation and dampness .which the potatoes love but causes rust on the canned goods


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

heres a mallases cake with home grown apple butter ,butter and mallasses . Home grown foods can be fun too .


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

roma tomatos; cukes for pickles , and sweet peppers these are on the gotta can tommarow list


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Just beautiful, Arnie.

Well in the spirit of producing 90% of our food, I was finally able to pick a couple tomatoes tonight, more are trying to turn red, and at dinner tonight, we opened the last jar of last years salsa.
And I now highly doubt i will buy any pickles of any sort or pickle relish for at least 1-1/2 years.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

Now you'v got it in the cellar and if something go's wrong and the crop fails next year you are covered ; summer Rambo apples are here now any body wanna come over n help make apple butter ?


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## Cali Bassman (Mar 7, 2014)

Where does everyone get thier seeds?


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Cali Bassman said:


> Where does everyone get thier seeds?


I like to support my local seed company (http://www.harrisseeds.com/) but I've gotten some from http://www.johnnyseeds.com/ http://www.seedsavers.org/ and https://www.mainepotatolady.com/

I feel that the local company will offer the best varieties for my area, and it supports my local economy, but sometimes I want things they don't carry.


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## Vosey (Dec 8, 2012)

I also try to buy Oregon seeds, this year we did many from a local farm and the rest from Territorial Seed, which is a big seed company. I will say that the germination rates and overall success with growing is better with the Territorial Seed. But the local farm seeds are all heirlooms and they are more susceptible to disease and pests so it's certainly not the fault of the local far. 

Do a search in the Garden & Plant Propagation forum, lots of discussions last winter about seeds.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

canned more peaches , blackberrys . pickles dill and sweet bread n butter


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Cali Bassman said:


> Where does everyone get thier seeds?


Local place that's not so well-known: 

http://whiteharvestseed.comand 

Another local place that's pretty well-known: 

http://www.rareseeds.com/


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## Cali Bassman (Mar 7, 2014)

Pony
Thanks for the info.
I'll be moving by West Plains next Summer, that's exactly what I was Looking for


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

I canned up 139 quarts of sweet corn at the local community cannery I used the tin cans so I could save my glass jars for home use in my outdoor kitchen ; which is great for summer canning except the bottle baby likes to hang out with me ( her mama) also now I have to add a coat of cooking oil to each of those cans and let them dry a couple days before putting them in the cellar to keep them from rusting . itsa good idea to rub some oil on your other canning jars of goodies lids also to help prevent rust if you don't think you will use them up to soon


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Arnie, I wanna come live on your farm.


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## harmon (Jun 15, 2013)

http://www.wikihow.com/Extract-Oil-from-Walnuts

Is this how you plan to make your walnut oil? I have more walnut trees than I can count but getting to the nuts is so hard I am about to sell the trees. 

Also what olive trees did you get to grow in Oregon?






K.B. said:


> I really like the title of this thread - I think the "support" aspect is really important.
> 
> For me, I like to envision growing/harvesting most of our food (based on calories AND nutrients as opposed to bulk weight), but I will be quite happy if 90+% percent of our food is from local sources. Local would mean the Rogue River Valley, in my case.
> 
> ...


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

tomatoes


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

harmon said:


> http://www.wikihow.com/Extract-Oil-from-Walnuts
> 
> Is this how you plan to make your walnut oil? I have more walnut trees than I can count but getting to the nuts is so hard I am about to sell the trees.
> 
> Also what olive trees did you get to grow in Oregon?


I think that this would be more practical:


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## mwilken03 (Oct 13, 2013)

Subscribed to this thread for sure! Me and my wife have already started planning for doing this and this helps alot!


Sent from my iPhone using Homesteading Today


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

with all the rain lately it was a chalang but we made a runoff sourgum mallases this week . now thers 30 quarts and 24 pints of sweet stuff full of vitamins and in my cellar


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

and heres the hog loaded up and off to the butcher gonn be "eatin high on the hog " soon


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## hmsteader71 (Mar 16, 2006)

Arnie-I am envious.


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## Grandmotherbear (May 15, 2002)

I'll never make the 90%, living on 2 city sized lots- 1 at the lake, 1 at the city, but I was rereading the archives from Daily Journal from CSF forum and had forgotten how much food we got from gardens back in 2006-2009. Basically we were buying milk bread and eggs (city regs forbid keeping any farm animals or poultry) I'm trying to get my garden pots cleared of the 7-9 feet tall weeds and get a traditional garden planted- so far I've seeded parsnips, peas, turnips, beets, crosnes, Irish taters and cukes, and bought maters, peppers, herbs, broccoli and cauliflowers. Got to get my green beans and yardlong beans in also. Summer is our fallow period a d I'm just gonna give up, I think, on the tropical vegies. Even the winged beans mainly bear in the shortend days. The rains (over a foot above normal) exploded all my sweet taters but I'll just keep the vines going till next spring. I think a good goal to aim for myself is dairy, bread and meat from the store and everything else from garden. I am going to try to track down okari and panama nuts, and maybe some oyster nuts too. I have a Pachira nut tree but it's only 3 years old and hasn't set any fruit yet.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

So I'm doing my planning for next year's garden, and thinking that my most out of control food spending is holiday dinners, and maybe it would be an attainable intermediate step to plan to grow 90% of next year's Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners. I'd have to get around to canning more of the fruit I already grow. Several of the crops I use for Thanksgiving (carrots, parsnip, winter squash, pumpkin) are also sheep fodder varieties, so they're already on the list of things to plant anyway. I'm considering if I want lamb or chicken, or if I need to convince hubby to let me add turkeys this year. (Unfortunate that there is a minimum order on turkeys, easier to contemplate doing 2 of our own than trying to sell turkey.) If lamb, then I'd need to schedule an early butcher. If I do the lamb early I can even render my own tallow for pie making. (I should have beef tallow left over, but I didn't grow it myself.) I'd end up buying sugar, flour, milk products, nuts, maybe a box of jello...


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## Homesteader1 (Oct 19, 2011)

Am I missing something?? I did not see any family sizes. How many are in your families. After homesteading for years I might can help in some way. How many are working the homesteads? Someone mentioned bartering great tool to use especially in this coming year and beyond.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

I have a family of 4, but I also grow a lot of produce to sell, and supply my dad with some pork, most of his produce, and supply him and my siblings with jams and jellies. I also supply about 4 or 5 families with eggs.
How many work our place? Well, 4 of us. Me full time, my wife some, and our kids help.

I might add, I wish I had Arnies property and set up, it would make the 90% goal so much easier.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

dlskidmore said:


> (Unfortunate that there is a minimum order on turkeys, easier to contemplate doing 2 of our own than trying to sell turkey.)


Perhaps I am mistaken, because some combos come with only 2 turkeys and several other species of bird. The combo makes me feel too ambitious though. TurGoDucken anyone?


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## Homesteader1 (Oct 19, 2011)

Going to be a great year. Best wishes to all.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

apples are doing good this season so lets make apple butter , heres a few of the 60 pints I put up the other day ;this is prably enough to last me years ,if I didn't give it away to every one  ,but finding things when they are in season is a good way to save even if you don't have an orchard or tree ;while at the cannery people were talking of buying apples for 17$ a bushel


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Pretty looking sauce there Arnie ! I love apples in about every way, shape and form.

Our hoop house is doing well. Wife picked nearly the last of the tomatoes yesterday. The green beans are about a week away from the first picking, probably get a bushel off them before they are done.




















The lettuce, spinach, broccoli, peas and cabbage are all doing well.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

In case anyone wants to add cold cuts to their home processed food repertoire: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vajH_PNoSc0[/ame]


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Pate for a smoother cold cut: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyg_QoVV2Fg[/ame]


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