# Is heavy alcohol drinking "ALWAYS" Bad.....????



## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

I won't be deceptive......the key word is "ALWAYS". Is the heavy consumption of alcohol always bad for the human body.....? And as it seems to pee people off if I don't answer my question urgently. My answer is NOT always.


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

Always? who knows? Heavy drinking IMO would be. To me heavy drinking would be HAVING to have the drink every day.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2012)

Heavy drinking seems to be a great deal less destructive on the body than heavy smoking or heavy eating.


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

zong said:


> Heavy drinking seems to be a great deal less destructive on the body than heavy smoking or heavy eating.


Maybe in your opinion but I don't think anything to excess is good for the body. I don't like the thought that brain cells die from drinking. Maybe being a blonde I need as many brain cells as I can get LOL. I also would never date a smoker.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2012)

My God. I cannot believe that anybody actually believes that old wives tale "brain cells die from drinking" Here, I'll only send you to one link, but the whole concept is as valid as warts from toads. Ridiculous.

Does Drinking Alcohol Kill Brain Cells?


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

Of course, years of alcohol abuse can cause serious neurological damage, including Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome. Harm can be done to message-carrying dendrites on neurons in the cerebellum, a part of the brain involved in learning and physical coordination. But even in such extreme cases, there&#8217;s a lack of evidence that alcohol kills brain cells. 


Z most facts or non facts are believed according to what the person does with their life. If you enjoy acholic beverages then you are going to be more biased to them then not. Neither lifestyle may be wrong or right for each person that lives it.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

zong said:


> Heavy drinking seems to be a great deal less destructive on the body than heavy smoking or heavy eating.



That is my opinion also.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2012)

starjj said:


> Of course, years of alcohol abuse can cause serious neurological damage, including Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome. Harm can be done to message-carrying dendrites on neurons in the cerebellum, a part of the brain involved in learning and physical coordination.* But even in such extreme cases, thereâs a lack of evidence that alcohol kills brain cells. *
> 
> 
> Z most facts or non facts are believed according to what the person does with their life. If you enjoy acholic beverages then you are going to be more biased to them then not. Neither lifestyle may be wrong or right for each person that lives it.


Even though you ignore the main part of the article, the part that you choose to quote also states the bolded. The actual fact is, alcohol does not kill brain cells. It's not a matter of belief, as you say. It is scientific fact. There is not now, nor has there ever been any evidence that remotely backs the "alcohol kills brain cells" nonsense. Go on and continue believing something with no remote possibility of being true though. The benefits of being a realist is that I don't need irrational statements to back my opinions. If it's an opinion, I can state it as such without dragging out unfounded superstitions.


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## glazed (Aug 19, 2006)

...

I can only answer this question for my own Self.

Yes, heavy drinking is always bad.

I do not drink often ... And when I do, three is my limit.

I am a light weight.

I do not need, or want, alcohol to have fun or relax.

Don't think I am a stick-in-the-mud or a fuddy-duddy because I am far from it.

...


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

SD and Z I already knew what you opinion would be. I am not against having a drink but like I said I rarely do drink. I don't know why people get upset because they choose to live their life their way. Discrediting anothers opinion because it is not what you believe doesn't make much sense to me. I am sure there are tons of articles saying that heavy drinking is bad however what service does it do bringing them up. I never said anyone was a bad person because they drink daily.


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

Geez Z if you want to argue pick on someone that wants to argue back. It would be nice to come here and state this is my opinion and not have someone jump down you throat because they see things differently then you.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2012)

Theres not any doubt that there are articles that say drinking is bad. What you said, and what I took issue with is the completely unfounded "alcohol kills brain cells" statement. You did say this, you know. And that alone is what I took issue with. Of course you have the right to an opinion, but everybody knows that the "alcohol kills brain cells" argument is invalid. 



starjj said:


> .....I don't like the thought that brain cells die from drinking...............


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

In my opinion, when someone has a defensive, emotional reaction when someone else suggests they _may, possibly_ drink more than is good for whatever reason, it's probably a problem.

Just my opinion of course.

If I were involved with a woman that had that reaction, I'd most likely bail. Been there, done that, not doing it again. YMMV.


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

OK Z you win does that make you feel like a better man now. I hope so then you can quit beating a dead brain cell or horse as it may be and now you have your cheering section to back you up. I guess it is OK for some to have opinions on here and not others.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2012)

Is HEAVY alcohol consumption ALWAYS bad?

Yes..,

ALCOHOL'S DAMAGING EFFECTS ON THE BRAIN


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## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

Drinking is no different than gambling, porn, or video gaming. This where "a matter of degrees" is the operative concept. It depends what one does with them. All the above only become harmful when _abused_, and although there are clinical definitions for abuse, it is a term that is bandied about and _abused_ in it's own right.

Say that a person calls themselves an animal husbandman.They hold on to too many animals when they should be selling some or butchering some. They pay too much for feed and upkeep and fall into financial ruin. They have mismanaged their activity and, from the point of view of an extemely frugal, careful person, could be said to have abused the farms financial viability.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Starjj, I have NOT challenged you.


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## Jaclynne (May 14, 2002)

Well, its always bad for me if I'm the one doing the heavy drinking. And it always bad for me the one with me is doing the heavy drinking.

Jackie


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## foaly (Jan 14, 2008)

I don't think it matters how many brain cells you have if you bleed to death from esophageal varices or collapse and die due to alcohol-induced seizures. Happened to my alcoholic father who drank from the time he was 16 years old until he collapsed and died in his bathroom at age 64, seizing and bleeding profusely from his mouth. Watching that happen wasn't for the faint of heart. Too bad I didn't video tape the whole event. It might prevent someone else from ending up that way.

His death certificate listed cause of death as gastrointestinal hemorrhage and seizure as complications of alcoholism. Didn't mention the status of his brain cells. Didn't much matter though, did it? 

Long term alcohol use is a slow suicide.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

Another thought. I haven't seen where alcohol improved anyones life, especially when used more than sparingly. I have seen many lives ruined by it, even in what some would call moderate degrees of use.

Having said that, I used to drink a beer or a glass of wine before going to bed because it helped my back to relax and allow me to sleep better. I went weeks without sleeping well, for several years. My back was wacked from a wreck with a drunk driver. Time and various treatments has helped heal the back to a degree, tho I still hesitate to use anything, from asprin, to beer or a glass of wine, regularly for medicinal purposes. I trashed my stomach from taking all sort of over the counter pain meds in the first years after the wreck. I suspect most that drink regularly aren't doing it to relieve pain in their back, but I could be mistaken.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

OK, People. The original post was: " Is the heavy consumption of alcohol always bad for the human body.....? 

Was not about if it is bad for any other reason.

Shortly I am going to tell you about one of my best friends.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Heavy drinking scares me, so I'd have to say "bad". ALWAYS heavy? Then, yes, ALWAYS bad.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Heavy drinking is hard on the body. But smoking is more deadly in a quicker fashion than alcohol.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I cant remember somebody on drugs killing somebody in a traffic accident, though Im positive it has happened. Ive heard of many crashes where one driver was drunk


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

as i mentioned in a previous thread. i do have a glass of wine with my meal every night. i dont think that's excessive and if by chance i dont happen to have any i dont crave it. my friend on the other hand can't go anywhere to visit any hour of the day or night unless she brings her wine box. i had to stop her from bringing it here.she would consume the whole thing in record time. (i do believe i heard the homeowner can be charged if they have an accident) 

she started bringing what i thought was a large bottle of coke but found out it was filled with rum. i would think she is close to being an alcoholic. she also has many problems.diabetic etc. i would say this is not a good thing. i wont be in a car where she is the driver.~Georgia.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

newfieannie said:


> ... my friend on the other hand can't go anywhere to visit any hour of the day or night unless she brings her wine box. i had to stop her from bringing it here.she would consume the whole thing in record time.... she started bringing what i thought was a large bottle of coke but found out it was filled with rum. *i would think she is close to being an alcoholic.* she also has many problems.diabetic etc....~Georgia.


 I'd say she crossed that line some time ago.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

If you have to have a drink you may drink too much...I can have a drink every day of the week for one or two weeks and not have one for a week or two. I don't have to have a drink, but I enjoy one every now and then.

Most of the time I know my limit, I hate being hungover so I very rarely drink to that point...


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

The point was/is are there people for whom heavy, very heavy drinking does not seem to hurt their body.


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

Sourdough said:


> The point was/is are there people for whom heavy, very heavy drinking does not seem to hurt their body.


Hopefully for all you that don't respect another person's opinion this is my last post on the subject. Does not seem is the key wording. There are those that think it does not but it may they are just functioning Ok so it would be more likely they think it doesn't. Sure there are those that it SEEMS not to hurt their bodies. Same with smoking. I know many many smokers that because they are fine functioning people some of who regularly excerise and show no side effects at this time SEEM to be OK. Years from now when they can't breathe or have lung cancer it would SEEM they were not. Have fun!


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## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

Sourdough said:


> The point was/is are there people for whom heavy, very heavy drinking does not seem to hurt their body.


Of course! Duh~~ We've all heard about the old lady who smoked all her life and she's 90 something. Or that in Europe, back in the day, they drank wine with meals because the water was not safe - even the children. Whether those are true or urban myths is moot. 7.? billion souls on this rock! Unique, extreme, or uncommonly common; people run the gamut.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

There may in fact be, but it could take a long time to find out, in the same amount of time, it could be doing serious damage to their body.

Damage to the body isnt the only detrimental effect. Alcohol can seriously affect people lives without neccesarily resulting in body damage, so, what difference or advantage do they realize if their liver isn't ruined, but their relationships are, they've lost their license, and/or perhaps been responsible for ruining other peoples lives, including those close to them?

I'm pretty sure the guy that hit me couldn't care less. The police said he'd done similar things on several occasions before my experience with him. His body may (or may not) be fine. His life is a trainwreck, as is the lives of others hes come into contact with. I have no idea about his family.


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## rxkeith (Apr 13, 2009)

chronic heavy alcohol consumption will always end up badly for someone, if not the drinker than for someone associated with him/her.

always

enough bad things can happen from occasional heavy drinking to make it not be a good thing to do. 
heavy drinking is always a bad idea.

always


keith


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Well, this was an educational thread. Clearly people can not follow instructions, even if the instructions are repeated and repeated.


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

This thread reminds me of those wise words I heard in 1962 from a great statesman, Mr. Soggy Sweat. It goes;

"My friends, 

"I had not intended to discuss this controversial subject at this particular time. However, I want you to know that I do not shun controversy. On the contrary, I will take a stand on any issue at any time, regardless of how fraught with controversy it might be. You have asked me how I feel about whiskey. All right, here is how I feel about whiskey. 

"If when you say whiskey you mean the devil's brew, the poison scourge, the bloody monster, that defiles innocence, dethrones reason, destroys the home, creates misery and poverty, yea, literally takes the bread from the mouths of little children; if you mean the evil drink that topples the Christian man and woman from the pinnacle of righteous, gracious living into the bottomless pit of degradation, and despair, and shame and helplessness, and hopelessness, then certainly I am against it. 

"But; 

"If when you say whiskey you mean the oil of conversation, the philosophic wine, the ale that is consumed when good fellows get together, that puts a song in their hearts and laughter on their lips, and the warm glow of contentment in their eyes; if you mean Christmas cheer; if you mean the stimulating drink that puts the spring in the old gentleman's step on a frosty, crispy morning; if you mean the drink which enables a man to magnify his joy, and his happiness, and to forget, if only for a little while, life's great tragedies, and heartaches, and sorrows; if you mean that drink, the sale of which pours into our treasuries untold millions of dollars, which are used to provide tender care for our little crippled children, our blind, our deaf, our dumb, our pitiful aged and infirm; to build highways and hospitals and schools, then certainly I am for it. 

"This is my stand. I will not retreat from it. I will not compromise.

(....and that goes for coffee, straight-up as well.)


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## Mooselover (May 4, 2009)

Sourdough said:


> The point was/is are there people for whom heavy, very heavy drinking does not seem to hurt their body.



my story...for what's worth

i have a very dear friend who i love very, very much. she's been drinks a fifth of tequila every night (and has been for over 20+yrs), has a very stressful job and relationship, and refuses to stop layering her foods with salt. at present she can barely walk without holding on to a wall or surface to guide her, as she is very unsteady. she's also been having stomach problems (she doesn't eat much..although when she does eat, she does eat somewhat healthy). WE (the people who love her VERY much), don't know how to help(?).


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Beer belly? Not a healthy look....


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

If you have to drink, be functional. Do not get a DUI, do not drive drunk. Have friends and family and interact with them. Maintain a job. Arrive sober and work hard. If any health related issues start to rear their ugly head, you went too long, too hard, and need a break.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

I have a very dear friend and his wife. He started drinking at 14/15 y/o and by 18 he was working as a block layer and drinking very heavy every day. From the time he was 20 y/o till today he has never ever drank less than 32 oz. of whiskey per day. during the 70's and 80's he drank a measured quart of whiskey and a pint of schnapps, something called a snowshoe.

He is now retired from his masonry business, and has switched to scotch, but still drinks a measured quart every night, he starts around 4M.

After (51) years of this his wife demanded he get physical, a full physical not just a pilots medical exam. He was 71 y/o and the young doctor could not believe he drank that much for 51 years, his wife made it clear to the doctor that he has never drank less than a measured quart of whiskey or scotch.

The doctor said your in great shape even for a 30 y/o (Remember he has been laying block 9 or 10 hours a day for 50+ years). The doctor said I want to do some blood tests, my friend said, "do all of them". The doctor said that it would cast over $800.00 my friend say just do it. So he went home quit drinking at 10:45 that night, fasted 12 hours and was at the doctors office at 12:noon to test everything that comes out of ones body.

We all joked about all the things they would find wrong. Turns out he had nothing wrong, and his wife simple could not believe it.

We all get the camera up the butt thing every three years, guess who is the only one who has never had a pulp removed. He just turned 74 y/o still drinks a measured 32 oz. of scotch and a few beers everyday. He looks like he is 49 or 50 y/o. His wife just giggles in disbelief every time the subject comes up. She is a good woman......and he is a good friend.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

zong said:


> Heavy drinking seems to be a great deal less destructive on the body than heavy smoking or heavy eating.


You wouldnt say that if you worked where I have.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

zong said:


> My God. I cannot believe that anybody actually believes that old wives tale "brain cells die from drinking" Here, I'll only send you to one link, but the whole concept is as valid as warts from toads. Ridiculous.
> 
> Does Drinking Alcohol Kill Brain Cells?


Sorry Mr Z but I have seen heavy drinkers after their brains have been pickled, in the hospital.


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## celticfalcon (Jan 7, 2005)

i drink everyday.sometimes it might be a beer or a capt and diet.byt its in the evening.on the weekends,ill drink during the football games.now im 48 yrs young and been consumming since HS on the football team(i know,we were underage,but different times),and did stupid things.i cant say i dont get pie eyed anymore,but i dont do like i used too.my ex was a closet drinker,and i was on 3rd shift.its partialy my fault.id get home at 7am and have a few beers.it was my nighttime.id go to bed and she would drink.at 4-5 pm she would be feelin no pain.as of health,my last physical,all liver enzymes were good and 100% healthy,whith the exceptions of my VA disabilities.my SC disabilities have nothing to do with alcohol.


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## greenmcdonalds (Oct 30, 2006)

I can tell u about heavy drinking on my life. My mom was married 8 times, ask why, she married all heavy drinkers. Some was mean, some cheated when drinking, others just started to add other drinks because the buzz was quicker, the body was immune to just the beer. My first boyfriend at 12 started drinking, now at 50 he is going to die soon. His liver is breaking down, he has brought on alcohol shakes. Remember seeing the old guys that hang at the bar, working cleaning the bar for thier drinks ? The ones I know , loose bowel movements from all the drinking and other things I won't say. I work as a nurse, and seen mostly everything in the 26yrs. Another thing that heavy drinking does is age u. Not good for women. Some men that I thought was in the 80's , was only in the 60's. Everybody is not same. Alcohol does rob u of the b vit. please take a muti v. if u drink heavy. Sue


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## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

I had an enlarged liver at 19 years old...along with other physical problems directly related to heavy drinking. I have not had a drink in over 30 years and my liver is fine.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Sourdough said:


> I won't be deceptive......the key word is "ALWAYS". Is the heavy consumption of alcohol always bad for the human body.....? And as it seems to pee people off if I don't answer my question urgently. My answer is NOT always.


Yes.
Always.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Sourdough you never should use absolutes like always and never, they always cause confusion and never get the answer you are always looking for.


Really though, any question with an "always" is pretty much a no unless you are asking if people always die or not.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2012)

I skimmed the top 150 articles that came up on google when I put in "does alcohol kill brain cells" Real articles, not mad magazine or something like that. So, all these medical schools are misinformed and all those scientists who did the multi-year studies are too. OR. alcohol does not kill brain cells.
On the other hand, I knew someone who died as a result of a botched colonoscopy At a major university hospital. So, I suppose I could say "going to university hospitals will kill you" or "colonoscopies are murder" But, since I tend to look up everything, I do see that many people survive a colonoscopy. Just not people who lived here. And many people go to university hospitals and survive. Just not many who live here. 

At any rate, I have to accept the hundreds and thousands of articles, all stating that alcohol does not kill brain cells(as opposed to the zero that say it does) as factual. If anyone considers fact to be argumentative, that don't bother me. Petulance is childish.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

Drinking in moderation seens to have some health benefits.

I've not seen anything good from constant heavy drinking, or even constant drinking. Arguing about if the damage is caused by dead brain cells or not is rather a red herring. Somebody google the mechanics of Wet Brain. I've seen first hand the physical ravages of heavy drinking, people die from it,"Alcoholism" listed as the cause of death. It's a gruesome way to die.

Alcohol is an effective painkiller. I believe folks should reach in and deal with their source of pain instead of killing themselves along with their pain.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2012)

E. coli and C. dif is also a gruesome way to die. As is gangrene. As is an automobile accident. Actually, there aren't a whole lot of happy ways to die.


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

Yeah, how about that Ebola virus....yuck.


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## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

Can't really say if it's bad the human body (or should I say A human body--cause some people can knock back a fifth and live to 100), but I will say this. It can be harmful to those around that heavy drinker--physically and emotionally. 

For me it's emotional. Last spring I checked my cousin into a rehab center. He did really well. Picked him up after 2 weeks. Things were going good for him. Stressful, but he would reach out to me because he knew I wasn't going to judge him but I would give him hell. Picked him up for Thanksgiving dinner (he lost his license for 10 years), and he was wearing quite a bit more cologne than he usually does. He's slipped. He admitted it to me. Just beer he says, no hard stuff. It saddens me because in my family it's not just siblings that are cradle-to-grave; cousins are too. I'm afraid his grave will come too soon.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

Do people purposely seek out and imbibe e. coli, c. dif and ebola for the long, slow painful death? I think not.

Why the red herrings, Guys?

I know people who drank heavily for years set it down and walk away with no lasting ill effects. Other cannot do it. They choose alcohol induced dementia as their most important relationship and forsake all others.

The differences are in the individuals' personal constitutions and genetic predispositions.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2012)

Emotionally, heck yeah. People that are unstable go insane when drinking. Even someone as hardened to life as I am gets uncontrollably maudlin after more than 4 beers. 3 or 4 shots of pure liquor, I'd be calling strangers on the phone talking about my childhood and stuff. There is especially a correlation between heavy drinking and physical violence. And generalized stupidity, too. How's this for a prelude for a disaster: "Here, hold my beer and watch this"


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

I too have a dear friend who cannot handle his liquor. Every year or two his wife calls and he has flew the coup. So its time to call out the old crew to go looking for him. His wife allows no alcohol in the house so he knows he must disappear for a couple of days in order to get wasted as he wants to be. 

So after a day and a half of searching all the deer camps and cheap motels, we gave up and then he called me to just contact someone that he was okay. I got the phone number off caller ID after he hung up and so we went after him down on Pensacola Beach where he was checked into the swankiest place he could find. There he was, sitting in the bar at a table with a crew of folks half his age, with his head down on the table, out of it, running a tab for all his new found friends. We hauled his butt outta there and back to the house. He's now off to "camp" for a couple of weeks to dry out, sober up, and cry for all his problems which if taken in context, are just trivial persuit. The only good thing about his binges are that he won't drive and drink so he's stuck where ever he decides to drink. A huge burden on a really nice family. He's ten years younger than me, looks and acts ten years older, and his hands shake for days after he has had a drink.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2012)

I have friends that have serious alcohol dependencies, drug dependencies, so on. Everybody around them has the choice whether or not to let that person get a deathgrip on their life. Even in families, it's possible to set boundaries. Everybody has to live the life they make for themselves. It boils down to this: If "Joe" let someone's behavior break 'Joe" down, Joe is responsible, because Joe is the one that allowed it. At some point, self preservation should have kicked in, and Joe is responsible for not listening. 
On the other hand, if Joe has a couple of drinks and notices that those drinks aren't getting somebody else drunk, and he likes the fact that the booze isn't cheating on him and he decides that's the way he wants to finish out his life, that too is his choice. And everybody around him makes the choice of whether or not they'll allow Joe's drinking to upset them or not.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

True, but still it causes pain when someone you care about makes those choices. You can detach emotionally, but its not the norm, most people care about their spouses and family. It's abusing the relatiosnhip for someone to make those choices to put their famly through that. My sympaties are with the family, not the individuals "right" to ruin their life and the lives of their families before they devlop those hardened emotions regarding their loved ones "choices".


So, I'm curious about the point of this thread. It was about the "body only", all other comments were not desired. So, does that one friend (or a few) that doesnt seem to be harmed by heavy alcohol use make it OK for others to drink, and be able to rationalize that its OK for "Joe", so it's possible that it's OK for me? I don't know, I'm asking. "Rationalizing" isn't rational thinking, it's looking for an excuse or reason for something to try to make it OK.

OK, so for most people, heavy drinking contributes to health problems, and often to death directly related to drinking. For some, it does not. So the answer that was sought in this thread is "no". How does that help anyone?


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2012)

I see what you're saying, and all I can do in defense is to relate incidents from my own life, which is the only reality I have.
The most damaging choice I ever saw was the choice to trust the Hospital transplant team who recommended my wife take the tests for a kidney transplant. Although I studied up on it, pointed out the average waiting time, the average life expectancy of the transplanted kidney, as opposed to continuing dialysis, she chose to believe the medical industry because, according to her, "they're doctors. They have my best interest at heart" 
So, in my reality, when your wife trusts the medical industry, they perforate her colon, send her out of the hospital repeatedly, before the E. coli is cleared up, and on and on and on. Eventually she dies, as you have to be the one to sign papers to take her off life support, while other people that stand by to watch the final phase rub vicks vaporub under their nose to hide the smell of gangrene and death. Everybody in her family suffered tremendously for those 9 months. As did everybody in my family. As did Me, myself. And mostly, her. 
All for making the choice to trust medical professionals about kidney transplants. 
This is why everybody's reality is different. 
In my reality, the above described happened 100% of the time. Not once in 10,000. Every time. Because it came up once, in my life, and that was the result. So, to me, that was the worst choice I've ever seen. I know that to the people whose lives have been damaged by alcoholism, that may be the worst choice they've known in their life. 
Everybody sees things from their own reality.


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## tentance (Aug 16, 2012)

YES. heavy drinking is always bad for the body. you just may not be able to see it immediately due to the persons overall health state.

alcohol does kill brain cells. look up "organic brain syndrome." also what earlier poster has said about the cerebellum is incorrect. 

contrary to what someone earlier wrote, there is A LOT of evidence that heavy, chronic drinking has deleterious effects on the nervous system. binge and blackout drinking is much worse for your body than one or two every day.

and always remember, every other drink should be water.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

Zong, I feel for your loss. Nothing anyone can say makes it any better or easier.

I see your point from that perspective. I'm not sure it can be compared to the alcohol question. Nobody died because they chose to believe that heavy drinking was bad and chose not to do it. I can see where you question the medical profession, tho there's a lot of evidence that the risks and damage is real regarding heavy alcohol use.


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## tentance (Aug 16, 2012)

also can only respond with evidence from my own life.
average lifespan of a dialysis patient in the US - 5 years.
average lifespan of a transplanted kidney - 10 years.
5 or 10+5...because if new kidney fails you can still dialyze. choice is clear to me.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

I bought a logger/cowboy/Indian/biker bar when I was 23 years old. I got a heck of a deal because the owners were losing it due to their alcoholism and inabiltiy to stay open past 6 on Saturday nights. For me to have a license, I had to go to alcohol class. It was very educational.

I also knew owning a bar successfully meant I needed to end my yearlong buzz-on. I talked with my friends who'd withdrew from our party circuit and joined AA. They assured me I was not an alcoholic, the difference being when I puked, I quit for a few months. I cared. When they puked, they kept drinking. They did not care. That's the difference between social drinking and addiction.

I always had way more fun sober behind the bar than I did drinking on the other side. I can let an alcoholic destroy himself, but my my job was also to protect society and families from it. It was important I not let those drunks blow their entire unemployment checks on booze and not let them drive drunk. I loved their wives and kids.

I still have serious drinking rules for myself, and the truth is I have a blast being sober at parties while everybody else is having their version of a good time.

Those who are bent on destroying themselves will always find a way.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2012)

tentance said:


> also can only respond with evidence from my own life.
> average lifespan of a dialysis patient in the US - 5 years.
> average lifespan of a transplanted kidney - 10 years.
> 5 or 10+5...because if new kidney fails you can still dialyze. choice is clear to me.


 Average perforation rate from colonoscopy.....1 in 1,000. Oddly enough, the number of colonoscopies needed to prevent one case of cancer is 1250. So, the risks are bigger that you will get damaged than saved. And, of course, the rate here, in this household, is one death for every colonoscopy. Different realities. I also went to all the local hemodialysis clinics around. The average person there had been waiting 8.5 years for a kidney.


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## billooo2 (Nov 23, 2004)

Sourdough said:


> The point was/is are there people for whom heavy, very heavy drinking does not seem to hurt their body.


Sounds like my brother........heavy drinker............for years he told me that
his doctor was amazed at how much he drank, but there was nothing wrong with him.

Then a couple years ago, he landed in the hospital with pancreatitis. The doctors told him that his pancreas was destroyed by all the drinking. He was now giving himself insulin shots because his pancreas could not produce insulin. The doctors said that the pancreas may heal to some extent if he stopped drinking.

He stayed with me for a few weeks about a year ago. He would start drinking at 9-10 AM every day.....I could not keep track of how much beer, but he needed to buy a fifth of whiskey every other day.......and he is still on the daily insulin shots.

Just because the damage does not show up in blood tests does not mean that damage to the body is not happening. Sometimes the tests do not show damage until the damage is so severe that an organ is severely impaired.

For example, if one smokes one pack/day......it takes approximately 20 years before the damage starts showing up in pulmonary function tests. By that, time, there is a LOT of damage to the lungs!!!


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2012)

Shygal said:


> Sorry Mr Z but I have seen heavy drinkers after their brains have been pickled, in the hospital.


and I'll ditto that..does heavy alcohol cause brain DAMAGE? of course it does..
does it KILL brain cells..not directly..but it sure does alter how those brain cells function..semantics..kill/alter function..whatever..the result is the same..severely decreased brain function..


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2012)

Sourdough said:


> I have a very dear friend and his wife. He started drinking at 14/15 y/o and by 18 he was working as a block layer and drinking very heavy every day. From the time he was 20 y/o till today he has never ever drank less than 32 oz. of whiskey per day. during the 70's and 80's he drank a measured quart of whiskey and a pint of schnapps, something called a snowshoe.
> 
> He is now retired from his masonry business, and has switched to scotch, but still drinks a measured quart every night, he starts around 4M.
> 
> ...




and my maternal grandmother smoked three..that's 3 packs of CAMELS unfiltered for over 60 YEARS..no COPD,..no heart attack.. no lung cancer..she died at age 98 ...
Does her story prove somehow that heavy smoking isn't "always" bad for you?
Not to me..the overwhelming evidence to the contrary is worth more than an exception to the rule..perhaps if she hadn't smoked, she'd have lived to be 110..?


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## didaho (Jan 22, 2008)

I have cared for a few people that got dementia from alcohol. They were addicts to alcohol.
Here is a note on WEBMD.com

Dementia is the loss of mental functions such as thinking, memory, and reasoning that is severe enough to interfere with a person's daily functioning. Dementia is not a disease itself, but rather a group of symptoms that are caused by various diseases or conditions. Symptoms can also include changes in personality, mood, and behavior. In some cases, the dementia can be treated and cured because the cause is treatable. Examples of this include dementia caused by substance abuse (illicit drugs and alcohol), combinations of prescription medications, and hormone or vitamin imbalances. In some cases, although the person may appear to have dementia, a severe depression can be causing the symptoms. This is known as pseudo-dementia (false dementia) and is highly treatable. In most cases, however, true dementia cannot be cured.

Dementia develops when the parts of the brain that are involved with learning, memory, decision-making, and language are affected by one or more of a variety of infections or diseases. The most common cause of dementia is Alzheimer's disease, but there are as many as 50 other known causes. Most of these causes are very rare.

Recommended Related to Alzheimer's
Sundowning
Sundowning, or sundown syndrome, affects some people who have Alzheimer's disease and dementia. People with dementia who "sundown" experience periods of increased confusion and agitation as the sun goes down -- and sometimes through the night. Sundowning may prevent people with dementia from sleeping well. It may also make them more likely to wander. Sundowning is a common cause of caregiver burnout.
Read the Sundowning article > >
Because some causes of dementia can be cured or partially treated, it is very important that your doctor is thorough when making the diagnosis, so as not to miss potentially treatable conditions. The frequency of "treatable" causes of dementia is believed to be about 20%.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

As far as I'm concerned, yes, heavy drinking is bad. I will not deal with heavy drinkers, period. And as for a partner, even more so. Along with all the hassles of having a drunk around, man parts don't work right when the owner's a perpetual drunk. Also, intelligent conversation with a rational individual is essential in my book.


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## doodlemom (Apr 4, 2006)

I think that bread pic Zong posted is breathing:happy2:







]


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