# can lamanchas and dwarf nigerians live together?



## knuckledragger (Jun 6, 2007)

My wife wants Dwarf Nigerians. I am leaning towards LaManchas. Can the two peacefully coexist in the same pasture?


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## emanuelcs34 (Dec 5, 2007)

I have ND and one nubian, they live together with no problems.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

Yes they can, although LaManchas can have ear envy, lol. I have Nigerians, Nubians, LaManchas, Mini Nubian and Mini Mancha. The minis are the full size dairy goat bred to a Nigerian buck. Big and small they get along.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I have (currently) 1 Alpine, 1 Mini-Alpine, 2 LaManchas, 1 Mini-Mancha, and 1 LaMancha/Saanen cross living more or less peacefully in the same pasture.

Yes, the LaManchas sometimes bite ears on other goats.


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## wintrrwolf (Sep 29, 2009)

Saanen, nubian, mini-saanen's, and nigerian dwarf...they all co-exist well. My herd Queen bites the ears of anyone not quick enough to do as she says...maybe I should get a munchie just to throw Sugar for a loop.


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## spiritrider (Nov 14, 2009)

My peeve.
Too many short goats!!!

Around here it seems that people who keep all sorts of goats and let them breed are downsizing the grade goat population.
Ya buy what looks like a standard kid and it never gets past knee high!

Please be responsible. I know they're cute and easier to handle.
Little goat nuggets.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

Why is breeding minis irresponsible? I sell them as minis, I tell them they will be a medium size goat and etc. My market leans more towards Nigies and minis. Lots of people do not want a huge goat who eats a lot. So they get 2 or 3 Nigies or mini goats who eat less and take up less room. 

Yes they are also easier for kids to handle and use in goat shows and etc. There is a mini breed registry and etc etc. I also never mix a bunch of breeds together. I use a full size, purebred dairy doe ( Nubian or LaMancha in my case) and breed her to a purebred Nigie buck. First generation minis. I do not "mutt" them up and sell them as something they are not. So I guess I do not see why I should stop breeding them, or how I am irresponsible.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

I have small and large goats sharing a pasture before with no problems. 

Thai, I would love to breed 1st generation mini-manchas when we get more room. I think they may great goats for people.


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## Jay27 (Jan 11, 2010)

I have alpines and nigerians... just make sure there are plenty of shelters so everyone can get out of the weather. My alpines like standing in the door and not letting anyone else in... except for this years kids who just walk UNDER the alpines.


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## spiritrider (Nov 14, 2009)

If you were capable of seeing it you wouldn't be doing it!
Keep your goat (puppy) mill going.
Cause irrepairable damage to the goat gene pool.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

spiritrider you are way out of line. There are fanciers of all types and judgeing but the 400 or so pure bred goats at my small time local show I do not believe any breed is going to be compromised, if anything it will make the pure breds more valuable.
No one here is housing their goats in small cages forcing them to have little after litter in sub par conditions. No goats are being killed in shelters by thousands.
You live in prime puppy mill state, do something there and keep that anti breeding crap off this forum. We raise livestock not pets, learn the difference, we raise what sells just like those do who treat dogs like livestock which is wrong, at least there are ethical options of doing something with the leftovers or culls where as dogs their is not.
When we have a goat finders like we do for dogs and cats on petfinder then maybe I can see your point, granted their are goats on petfinder from time to time but those are posted by foolish people who want them to be pets and not livestock.

If you have a problem finding a pure bred quality goat then maybe you should get off here and go visit the ADGA or AGS website and find a real breeder not like the one you bought from lazily with out doing research and obviously got screwed.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

Sorry op, I have 2 Nubians, 1 Saanen , 1 boer, and 12 nigerians all living peacefully with my first nigerian doe as the herd boss


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

Cannon_Farms said:


> spiritrider you are way out of line. There are fanciers of all types and judgeing but the 400 or so pure bred goats at my small time local show I do not believe any breed is going to be compromised, if anything it will make the pure breds more valuable.
> No one here is housing their goats in small cages forcing them to have little after litter in sub par conditions. No goats are being killed in shelters by thousands.
> You live in prime puppy mill state, do something there and keep that anti breeding crap off this forum. We raise livestock not pets, learn the difference, we raise what sells just like those do who treat dogs like livestock which is wrong, at least there are ethical options of doing something with the leftovers or culls where as dogs their is not.
> When we have a goat finders like we do for dogs and cats on petfinder then maybe I can see your point, granted their are goats on petfinder from time to time but those are posted by foolish people who want them to be pets and not livestock.
> ...


Yeah, that. You obviously need to do a lot more research.


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## spiritrider (Nov 14, 2009)

I never said I bought from a slob breeder. And my background and education are in live stock breeding.
There are few puppy mills in Arkansas. 
I do think I will leave here HST. I think you all are mostly backyard pet keepers. And newbs.
SO LONG


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

Cool! Considering most of us have show champions or goats well on their way or many homesteaders happy with the goats we breed, do you really think we care about your insults.
Try and have a happy thanksgiving you just gave me a bit of humor for mine.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

the great ARK is second in the states for puppy mills, I think you have more than a few, of which we (my rescue group) has pulled hundreds of dogs from.


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## DWH Farm (Sep 1, 2010)

spiritrider said:


> Ya buy what looks like a standard kid and it never gets past knee high!


Sounds like part of your problem is that you dont know what you are buying?? If you are going to buy from auctions that is a risk you are going to take (one of many really). If you are not buying from auctions look at the parents.. Should be fairly obvious from that.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Spiritrider I am curious: what do you have against mini's? 

I am not zoned for goats, but because I want one I have given it some thought for if things ever change. Two dairy goats might give as much as 2 gallons a day, which is more milk than we could use. Two minis might be more practical for us, if things change. And the babies would be more saleable to people who just want pets.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Good bye!


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Do you think s/he's really gone? 

HEY!

EVERYONE!

*HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!​*


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

Happy Thanksgiving back at ya Pony!!

I think just to make sure that the troll stays gone, we should not feed it.


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## waygr00vy (Aug 7, 2005)

I have Nubians and ND's together. They get along fine but I do have issues when feeding. My ND's need a lot less grain than the nubians so without seperating them, my ND's tend to get a bit plump while my nubians tend to be a little thinner than I like. I recently seperated them to put more weight on. Its not a problem when they are in milk b/c you grain them on the milkstand.


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## Kshobbit (May 14, 2002)

I feel really sorry for Spiritrider. I have been raising dairygoats since 1976 so not a newbie to the homesteading life. I raise full size goats, used to be Nubians and Boers, but now have LaManchas, all full sized. I remember when Nigerian Dwarf goats appeared on the scene. They are really amazing goats and I have thought about getting some too. The plus side to the ND's size is more homesteaders on small plots of land can have a goat or two or three. They are easier for the ladies to handle. I quit raising Boers when my favorite buck demolished a cattle panel! He was just playing too. Dwarf goats have a place on the homestead. I thought this forum was here so us old (er) homesteaders could help the newbies. :soap:


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

I am not even going to bother to defend myself. I could careless what Spiritrider thinks. Those of you who "know" me, know how I raise my goats.

Hopefully he/she is gone for good  

I hope everyone had a Happy Thanksgiving. I am off to tend my goat mill goats, darn things won't stay in their tiny cages lol.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Well, I'm a newbie and not ashamed to admit it. This forum has been very helpful to me learning about my two wethers, even though seems to be full of goat enablers


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Goat enablers? Here? Say it isn't so! (looks sideways at Thai)

My herd currently has four goats (Oooh! I am well on my way to being a goat mill!) consisting of 1 Nubian doe, 2 Mini does, and 1 ND buck.

I can get, somewhat, where spiritrider is coming from. My Minis were sold to me as *Nigerians*...and at the time, I didn't know enough about either NDs or Pygmies to know the difference. They were *obviously* smaller than the standards I was accustomed to seeing. The seller seemed to be a qualified goat person who happily showed me paperwork on their tests and shots, gave references, etc., etc., but as it turned out, she was just as ignorant about those goats as I was at the time.....

(Not that it matters. I am keeping my Mini girls forever and every, amen.)

So, I can see how someone who might have gotten gyped in the same way, expecting one thing and getting another, might be just a widdle bit testy about the situation and taking out that frustration on others that she feels are doing the same thing as the person who gyped her.

A note to spiritrider: I know you are reading this under some nick or another, because you are human, and we humans just can't stand not knowing what other people are saying about us.  IF you were attempting to insult others here by inferring everyone here is ignorant and inexperienced, you missed your mark if only because if YOU were experienced and knowledgeable, you would never have gotten taken by someone selling minis as standard sized goats...you would have been able to see the difference right off.

If you were attempting to insult people here by comparing them to backyard dog breeders and puppy mills, you missed the mark again by a long shot. You are assuming that because NDs and Minis are smaller, they are pets rather than livestock.....and those of us here that are (at least now) experienced, know differently...as do the millions of those little goats in Africa, where, guess what, the ND originated.

Calling anyone here a goat (puppy) mill is just as ludicrous as calling a Piedmontese breeder a cattle (puppy) mill. People that are breeding and selling to the pet industry don't swap recipes for BBQ. 

Anyone want a recipe for roasted Fido? No? How about Tamales a' la Fluffy? No?  Isn't anyone here adventuresome enough for dog and cat recipes? I mean, I see recipes for goat sausage here, and all sorts of stuff....wait, you mean that dogs and cats *aren't livestock*??

At any rate, spiritrider, when you come back to the HT forums, and especially this forum, under another nick and a different account (because you have been so ill-mannered, impolite and ill-bred that you have alienated everyone and have to start over), please have enough primate skills to exhibit learning behavior, and don't stick your foot in it so much next time.

I can understand why and how you might feel justified in your anger towards those who go for the smaller breeds.... but that doesn't excuse acting like a jerk.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

Caliann :bow: You said it all and you said perfectly.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

if some one gets ripped its their own fault for not learning more before taking the plunge, a great deal of us learn the hard way. And whos to say that person fed and medicated properly and the goats are not small because of worms or coccidia or being fed improperly


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## Kshobbit (May 14, 2002)

Perhaps if spiritrider had come to the forum prior to buying the goats he/she would have been given some good advice by all of us "goatmill" folks. The first two goats I bought were stunted, but so sweet. Their first year had been spent on a chain, expected to eat the weeds out of the front yard, then bred too small. Their babies were actually my first mini's but that phrase had not been invented yet. I didn't know squat about goats at that time but have learned lots since then. I am so glad I did not let that experience sour me on goats.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

~grinz~ We have ALL gotten taken in one way or another when we were new to goats, or even new to a specific breed or practice!

I was a second-in-line to get taken by a pretty, blue-eyed boy....a lady bought him to add those blue eyes to her herd, and then sold him to me....

NEITHER of us realized that he was a wether, and not a buck, because neither of us had seen the aftermath of a burdizzo castration before....he just looked like he had small balls.....

We all get learning curves. Sometimes it is our ability to trust that gets hit...the buyer that swears they will pay the the remainder of the purchase price on payday, the seller that swears that lump is a vaccination site.... We have an entire world like that, not just goats.

And going to a place where some knowledgeable folks are happy to give advise (and get it sometimes, too!) is an invaluable resource.

I don't think spiritrider has goats right now. :shrug: Can any of you that either *currently* have goats or are expecting to GET goats in the near future imagine just stalking off of a GOAT forum because you are miffed at what people are breeding? No matter HOW snarky some of my goat forums can get, or how slow a couple of them are, and even some are academically far above MY head, I cannot imagine just stalking off of ANY of them.

I do, after all, still NEED the information they can provide, if not now, then some time in the future. Getting miffy and "I'm taking my ball and going home!" would be cutting off my nose to spite my neighbor. What if some crisis happens and I lose my mind and can't remember the dosage for Penn G or LA200? What if all three of my does decide to give birth in the SAME hour, all of them with quads and all having some trouble or another?

Then I'd be stuck crying for help to people I have been all snobbish and nasty to, AND wondering if anyone is going to answer my crisis because I have been all snobbish and nasty.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

CaliannG said:


> Goat enablers? Here? Say it isn't so! (looks sideways at Thai)


Hey why are you looking at me sideways?  lol Of course I am an enabler, I admit it right under my avatar lol. 


I will continue to do what I do and breed what I want to breed. Don't like it? Don't buy it.
This time Nibbles the giant Nubian better be pregnant with my short blue eyed Nigie. He and I have practically stood on our heads trying to get him to "reach". Want to crank out more of those minis, get them to the pet stores in time for the holidays, we goat mill people time it out for that reason, lol. 

Signed,
Thaiblue backyard mill breeder of cock-a-cheewnie-poodle-doos aka mini goats :grin: just in time for the Holidays, so get your designer puppy goats now for only $799 plus tax  lol


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

If cross-breeding makes us all backyard goat mill breeders, what about Nubians?

I mean, they are not all THAT old a breed, and they came about by out-crossing English goats with those of Middle Eastern and African origins. Does that mean that Nubians are the ultimate Goat Equivalent of a Cock-a-Doodle-Chuggle-Poo?

Unlike dogs (and to a lesser extent, cats) and horses, "showing" goats and having "purebred" goats is a VERY new thing. Our OLDEST goat registry is the ADGA, established in 1904. The IDGR came about in 1924, with the AGS following in 1937. So, basically, the farthest anyone can trace their goats back is 106 years. The King Charles Spaniel that I had as a child could trace his pedigree back at least twice that far as a distinct breed. The Friesian that I used to drive when I was a carriage driver could trace her pedigree back SEVERAL centuries.

The first herd book registry published in this country was in 1914. 
The British Goat Registry wasn't started until 1879.

Seriously, someone complaining about the "pure lines" of goats being "corrupted" by irresponsible breeders cannot have much of a clue about livestock. Ranchers corrupt "pure lines" of livestock all the time. Cattle ranchers around here will toss a Brahma or a Longhorn bull into their pasture if they start getting unacceptable disease losses. If calves start looking puny, they will toss an Angus or Beefmaster bull in there. Etc., etc.

Currently, they are "beefing up" the herds with Piedmontese...which doubles their meat production and miniaturizes them at the same time.

In cattle, smaller breeds have been developed with the small producer in mind: Miniature Herefords, Miniature Jerseys. Dexter Cattle became popular for their small size. Yet no one is accusing Miniature Hereford breeders of being "cattle mills" or breeding for the pet industry.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Heck, I thought I had enough experience NOT to get taken when I bought my Snubian. She has a scarred udder, blown teats, and a nasty disposition.

I DID realize she had bad hooves, but I figured I could fix those.

ANYhow, let's get on with the fun of goaties, and if Spiritrider wants to come back and play nice, of course s/he will be more than welcome.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

CaliannG said:


> If cross-breeding makes us all backyard goat mill breeders, what about Nubians?
> 
> I mean, they are not all THAT old a breed, and they came about by out-crossing English goats with those of Middle Eastern and African origins. Does that mean that Nubians are the ultimate Goat Equivalent of a Cock-a-Doodle-Chuggle-Poo?


Hey, there, now waitaminit!

I got me BLUE papers on my gal! That's IMPORTANT! The bluer the papers, the louder the Nubian. LOL!:nana:


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Is THAT the secret? So if I make sure that the papers are printed on, say green or pink paper, the Nubian will be quiet?

See, if I had ONLY known that, I wouldn't be heralded every time I stepped out of the door!

(DH says if the goats did NOT scream bloody murder every time they saw him, he'd think they didn't love him anymore.)


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## GoldenWood Farm (May 31, 2003)

You guys crack me up . I was going to say if you want mutts look at the LaManchas. They are the true mutt LOL. They came from Oregon where I was born and raised and are the truest of mutts (which is why I love them!) and they even have them funny looking ears.:rock:.

To the OP in regards to your questions I have found in my herd that nigerians and LaManchas get along great, so great that if you even TRIED to tell my Nigerian buck and my LaMancha buck they couldn't be together they might turn mutinous. Those two are little tweedle dee and tweedle dumb . But so far I have never had problems with the smaller goats being with the larger ones. I have mini LaManchas running with them also and everyone is happy. 

Those little ones have some BIG attitudes going for them and I figured with them being so short they could just go under whoever chases them. Funny little side story about that actually. My at the time yearling LaNubian doe Rhaps was always being terrorized by Rosie our Mini LaMancha. Rhaps never did figure out that if she just stopped running Rosie would go right on underneath her legs and never know it ound:. Funniest thing ever to see!

Justine


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