# too old to have puppies?



## mtnmenagerie

i've got a 7 year old australian shepard that has never had puppies. i've always intended on breeding her and keeping one of her pups... but have i waited too long? i'm worried that now she's too old to be a first time mommy?

she is very healthy and active...
what do ya'll think??


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## pancho

I once had a female that never came into heat until she was 7 years old. After the first time she came in heat every 6 months. We bred her a couple of times and she did great. She lived to be 18 years old. It will really depend on the dog.


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## TheBiscuitQueen

Talk to your vet. Our vet says at 7 they are technically seniors. I do not breed dogs, however so have no personal experience with that.


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## Maura

Contact a breeder of Aussies. For many dogs, seven is just too old, even if they have had puppies before. There is an optimum age to have one's first pregnancy, in humans it is between the ages of 19 and 22. It has to do with the flexibility of the pelvis and other factors. Just because the ***** is in good health does not mean she should be bred, considering that this would be her first litter.


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## Honorine

Nope, wouldn't do it, not worth losing a beloved pet. Most breeders stop breeding at 6 or 7 years old, I've been stopping at 5. At her age a first time pregnancy might be really rough, if she's able to conceive. Every time she went thru a heat and wasn't bred her uterus 'aged', increasing her chances of pyometra and possibly decreasing her chances of fertilization. I won't tell you what you should do, but only what I would do, and thats spay her and look for a puppy of her lines. I've had a situation where my fav girl just couldn't carry to term after her first litter, I bought her half sister, they have the same mother, and whose sire is my fav girls half brother. It was as close as I could get.


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## Rogo

=== There is an optimum age to have one's first pregnancy, in humans it is between the ages of 19 and 22. === 


Not a good comparison. Women a lot older today are having their first child! )


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## mtnmenagerie

thank you all for your replies. it's the collective pool of knowledge that i appreciate on HT. i suppose i have waited too long... really, i thought that from the beginning, i was just hoping someone would change my mind  i always just thought that i would wait for the "right" time to have puppies - but it is DEFINATELY not worth the loss of my girl :gromit: too bad...
lol, but i do have to say ~ when i read womens prime time is 19 to 22, i was like "yipes!! i've waited too late??? it over! it's ALL OVER!!!" hehehe

thanks again


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## Maura

Rogo said:


> === There is an optimum age to have one's first pregnancy, in humans it is between the ages of 19 and 22. ===
> 
> 
> Not a good comparison. Women a lot older today are having their first child! )



I didn't say it wasn't possible to have a first pregnancy at 40, I said the "optimum" age, because of the condition of a woman's body. Pelvic flexibility is very important during delivery. And, a lot of women hit menopause in their early to mid thirties, making it impossible to have a child at age 40. My grandmother was 49 when she had my mother, but it was her ninth child, not her first.


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## Willowynd

At 7 years for a first pregnancy, it is not advised no matter how healthy. First you may have difficulty even getting her pregnant because of the effect of seasons alone on her uterus. Second, even if she does get pregnant, chances are good she does not have many eggs left...you would probably be looking at only 1 or 2 pup litter. That may neccessitate a c-section- especially if pups are large or she just does not have the muscle tone to effectively deliver a litter. No matter how healthy- by 7 yo muscle tone is decreasing especially if those muscles have not been recently used (ie whelped a litter in the last couple years). Personally, I have only once considered breeding a 7 yo and she had whelped once previously, but we were never able to catch her in season before she turned 8, so she was spayed. The oldest I have bred was 6 years old (close to 7) and she had a singleton- and needed a c-section as she went into inertia. It would have to be a special circumstance for me to breed a ***** that was close to 7 again. Just so much to go through for one or 2 puppies- for both the ***** and me.


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## Rogo

'Spose it can go both ways. I know of 10 and 15 year old horses who were bred the first time without problems. They went on to breed into their 20's. All uneventful.


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## Willowynd

Pancho, I am not doubting you, but I cannot imagine a bitches repro system taking 7 years to go into action. Silent seasons however are common and easily missed. The swelling is very little and just looks like they may be thinking about coming in plus they usually have so little or no discharge. I had a girl like that, never did catch her in season myself...but my male did once...in the middle of a surprise snow storm while running up to the house. One mating 8 puppies. Good breeding, just I was not even aware she was in season...I kept a daughter and thank goodness she did not follow in her mom's footsteps. 


pancho said:


> I once had a female that never came into heat until she was 7 years old. After the first time she came in heat every 6 months. We bred her a couple of times and she did great. She lived to be 18 years old. It will really depend on the dog.


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## pancho

Willowynd said:


> Pancho, I am not doubting you, but I cannot imagine a bitches repro system taking 7 years to go into action. Silent seasons however are common and easily missed. The swelling is very little and just looks like they may be thinking about coming in plus they usually have so little or no discharge. I had a girl like that, never did catch her in season myself...but my male did once...in the middle of a surprise snow storm while running up to the house. One mating 8 puppies. Good breeding, just I was not even aware she was in season...I kept a daughter and thank goodness she did not follow in her mom's footsteps.


We lived out in the country and had several dogs, both males and females. Our dogs all ran free. I am pretty sure the males who slept, ate, and played with her would have known if she was even in a silent heat. We never saw any indication and the male dogs never acted like she was in heat. It came as quite a surprise when she came into heat after 7 years.
She was the runt of the litter and really wasn't expected to live. She had a couple of litters, we even kept some of her pups. If I remember right she had 8 pups the first litter and 6 the last litter. The oldest finally died just like his mother, of old age in his sleep.
I now have a female who is 3 years old and never has come into heat. I am waiting for the first heat before I get her spayed. Been waiting for over a year as I expected her to come into heat around 2.


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## NightmareRanch

I have Salukis and Afghans and it is not at all uncommon for a ***** to have a first litter at age six or seven, especially for a performance dog. My oldest Afghan had her first litter at age seven, eight puppies on a single breeding, no problems. She had another litter at age nine, six puppies, no problems. How old is too old is dependent on so many factors, breed, general health, lines, etc. that one really cannot say when the cut off is. I would expect a ***** from healthy, long-lived lines, that has had a good diet all her life, minimal exposure to chemicals, should have a long reproductive life.

Jess


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## cozyhollow-gal

mtnmenagerie said:


> i've got a 7 year old australian shepard that has never had puppies.... but have i waited too long? i'm worried that now she's too old to be a first time mommy?
> she is very healthy and active...
> what do ya'll think??


I have raised dogs for many years. managed a kennel and became VET, Nurse, Dog Chef, delivered many a pup. Walk the floor every 2 hours all nite long. Also had the pleasure of Showing some of my dogs, attending obedience classes and many Dog shows. I still raise puppies on a small scale.
***So, in my experience I have found out that after 5 yrs it becomes risky and at 7 years if she is has never had puppies, I wouldn't risk it. 
Perhaps you could just get another Aussie puppy and let her help you train it. A older dog can be a big help with a new pup, (if friendly with other dogs) She has maturity and savvy, and some of it will rub off on the pup.  The pup will pick up some traits from your older Aussie, just like her own pups would .  
The best to you..and your Pet....Patsy


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## Willowynd

Was the males sterile? Was she a dominant *****? Is it possible she was bred and you missed it, but she did not get pregnant or absorbed them?



pancho said:


> We lived out in the country and had several dogs, both males and females. Our dogs all ran free. I am pretty sure the males who slept, ate, and played with her would have known if she was even in a silent heat. We never saw any indication and the male dogs never acted like she was in heat. It came as quite a surprise when she came into heat after 7 years.
> She was the runt of the litter and really wasn't expected to live. She had a couple of litters, we even kept some of her pups. If I remember right she had 8 pups the first litter and 6 the last litter. The oldest finally died just like his mother, of old age in his sleep.
> I now have a female who is 3 years old and never has come into heat. I am waiting for the first heat before I get her spayed. Been waiting for over a year as I expected her to come into heat around 2.


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## pancho

Willowynd said:


> Was the males sterile? Was she a dominant *****? Is it possible she was bred and you missed it, but she did not get pregnant or absorbed them?


There was more than a single male, probably dozens. I don't think all were sterile. We never saw a male even act interested in her. I was one of 8 kids. The dog was with us constantly, we would have noticed if a male ever bred her. She stayed outside and we didn't even have a yard fence. I also hunted with her ever chance I could and ran her with many other dogs.
She just never came into heat until she was 7 years old. We lived at the edge of a small town. Everyone had dogs and no one penned them up. Had a neighbor with over 30 dogs. My uncle down the road always had at least a dozen. We had anywhere from 2 to 20.
When she turned 7 years old she came into heat. We let her breed and she had quite a few pups, can't remember the number but they were all healthy. She used to jump up on the well house to get away from them when she was weaning them. She came into heat every 6 months after that. It was my job to put her up to keep her from being bred again. About a year later my grandmothers dog tore down a door and bred her. Again, quite a few pups and all were very healthy. She quit coming into heat at probably 12 but lived until she was 18 when she died in her sleep.


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