# Flighty customers, ARRRGGHHH



## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

I need to vent about this.

I build custom solar dehydrators, rabbit hutches and chicken coops/ chicken tractors.
Always all new material, unless it is something odd that I have laying around, and then I charge 50-75% of new cost, if that is ammenable to the customer.

I have had 3 people contact me about projects in the past 3 weeks. I work up a BoM (Bill of Material) and price it out. Then add in my labor ($20/hr) for how long I think it will take (and I am usually low on the labor cost, considering it takes time to get the materials).

All three have backed out, saying "I can do it cheaper myself".:grit:

Well, duh. It seems like they want me to build it for free and take a loss on the materials. And then deliver it to them for free too.:grit:

AAARRRRGGGHHHH!

Now back to your regularly scheduled forum


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## lharvey (Jul 1, 2003)

Riverdale..

Welcome to my world.

I was asked for a quote to build a website. I gave the guy a rough quote. He said "I can have my grandson do it cheaper" I said well help yourself.

Almost two months later he called back and wanted a quote again. I recognized his voice and what he was asking. I said "I thought you were going to have your grandson build it" 

"Yea he did but it looks terrible." he finally admitted.

"Sorry dude, I can't help you now. I'm all booked up and should be able to get to you in about 2011":happy:

My grandfather always said, "Id rather not work then work for free"

Hold your ground and somebody will recognize the value of your services.

:L


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## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

For many years I made Shaker reproduction furniture as well as shelves, plate racks, etc. I was at a show way back in '90 and an old guy and his wife walked up and the wife was looking at one of the pieces. She was interested and was going to buy it until the old man says "A guy could make that" and made her move on. I'm willing to bet the woman never did get one a guy could make. Everybody wants something for nothing. So now it's a running joke between the wife and I when we see wood items anywhere. Except in my case, I could make it. I've been thinking about making things again, but with the price of materials these days people would balk at the finished price. 

Nomad


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Frustrating isn't it? The same stuff happens to me!


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## pinemead (Jan 18, 2003)

This happens to everybody that sells anything at some point in time. I know the quality and value of my products. I won't lower my prices to get a sale. I had one woman who said she could buy it cheaper at (named). I said "Yes, you can, and at $4.00 a gallon of gas, it will only cost you $12.00 to get there and $12.00 to get back. Her product is $1.00 less than mine." I lost the sale, but that's ok. Sometimes you have to stand your ground.

Could you do a drawing, parts list, and labor cost for a standard product? Then you could hand it to a customer and say "Alterations to this plan may increase or decrease the costs. Let me know when you are ready to build and we can discuss any changes you want." That way, you're not wasting your time to bid out a project for nothing. Those who are really interested will come back.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

pinemead said:


> Could you do a drawing, parts list, and labor cost for a standard product? Then you could hand it to a customer and say "Alterations to this plan may increase or decrease the costs. Let me know when you are ready to build and we can discuss any changes you want." That way, you're not wasting your time to bid out a project for nothing. Those who are really interested will come back.


I have a general list for what I consider standard hutches and tractors. The only thing I need to do is call every couple weeks to update my price list.

The whole thing is when I was a general contractor. One lady asked for a bid on a garage. Nothing elaborate. She got really ticked when she saw the price, and she said, "Well, I can buy a kit for $xxx". 
I replied "Have fun putting it up and screeding the concrete"
"What do you mean?"
"Do you work for free? I don't, and neither do my subs. They have families that need to eat, too".

Last time I went past there, there was still no garage, 10 years later


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## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

My husband did a portable welding job for a man ( he has a truck and goes to job sites ). It took him about 15 minutes of actual welding.
He charged the man 25$. The man had a hissy fit. He actually yelled "It was only 15 minutes!!!" 

My husband said "15 minutes and 20 years experience" He ended up telling the man to forget about paying but to never call him again.

My husband is the best in our area and I know this man has had many problems with the other welders.
You get what you pay for!!


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

A friend of mine does mobile welding.

He charges a minimum of $50 for a stop. He does weld AL and SS, along with cast iron. A LOT of people can't arc weld those 3, so no one complains about his price.

I might set my truck up for emergency hydralic repair (on site) (I have a lot of hydralic experience). Since I am in a Ag area, it might fly...

I need to get a good feel of the price range, tho.....


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## pinemead (Jan 18, 2003)

Riverdale said:


> I have a general list for what I consider standard hutches and tractors. The only thing I need to do is call every couple weeks to update my price list.:


Maybe you could include a list with estimated prices and note that the customer will pay _current_ materials prices. Just trying to save you some time - I know how much time contractors spend doing estimates for nothing.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

pinemead said:


> Maybe you could include a list with estimated prices and note that the customer will pay _current_ materials prices. Just trying to save you some time - I know how much time contractors spend doing estimates for nothing.


So basically this one is $xx for labor + the cost of this list of materials? Might work.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Once in a while, I like to just mess with people. When they say they could do it theirself cheaper, then I sorta throw this out in a real friendly and nice way:

"Really? Well you know, this is really a time consuming thing for me, and if you would be willing, maybe I could subcontract you to do the project, and then we might both make a profit, eh?" 

They look funny, but it's fun to see what they say in response.


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## How Do I (Feb 11, 2008)

partndn said:


> "Really? Well you know, this is really a time consuming thing for me, and if you would be willing, maybe I could subcontract you to do the project, and then we might both make a profit, eh?"


I bet that turns their thinker on


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

riverdale its tuff here in michigan lots of folks are just coming to relize that.
I put my coop design up in a few spots for local sale. its a nice coop medium 
size with a lot of time saving features, I offered it for 1,200 delivered (within 50 miles) and ready to go. I also a offer (additional) for a run. I also offered it unpainted or you pick up priceing, I know folks want to save a few bucks and many would be able to do those things. well long story short yes they want it for free. the price for the unpainted and U PIC UP was 900 I have about 400 in materials (thats bargin shopping), then theres the wear and tear on tools plus my time wich working by my lonesome (wich always takes longer) a good 4-5 days. even if I had someone helping they want to be paid to so labor would still be the same ,so the labor isnt to steep of a mark up,I could build it faster but Im not going to kill myself. Ive always been told labor is 3 x material wich would be 1200 just for the basic coop with out paint and delivery. I thought it was a good value and a decent investment and Im not doing anything else Im also not greedy but I do need to get paid or its not in my interest to do anything.
Maybe I'll give it another shot with a few different designs and price ranges only problem is you need you prototype or mockup so you know what it entails in labor and material and have something the customer can see.
Im not too much into custom but if I where it would be hourly on my time (what ever that works out to) and material ( no mark up on that) but Ive had problems there also once your done they want to bicker about the total and not pay in full. thats why I like this is it and it cost this if you dont like it sorry to here that I hope you find what your looking for, have a wonderfull day. wish you luck


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## Colorado (Aug 19, 2005)

I was making dolls to sell at craftshows. I worked in public place and this woman comes in and says she will come help me one day to make dolls and copy off my pattern. She has lot of old panty hose to make some dolls. I tell she could not help me and the dolls I made were not pantry hose. Pattern was not for panty hose, and she wants to know what then. Doll material you buy by the yard. I told where they sold patterns. One day she comes in and orders two dolls, one for sure and one maybe. When by such a date few month . She wanted free pattern and me to show her how and she colds do for free. She comes back and asks if I had them ready before that and I said I could bring them any time she wanted. She had no money. I never expected her to buy one even. 

You find all kinds of people out there. I had a friend help me get the dolls better (she offered) and I helped her a little and plus she needed more ideas for dressing dolls as she was selling and I got her a book for helping me.


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## lorian (Sep 4, 2005)

I find that people who want to "borrow" design ideas usually don't have the ability to carry it out. It takes a lot to make a business and as a previous craft shop owner I have a lot of respect for true designers.
What REALLY burns me though are professional design thieves. Large gift corps. hire people to go to craft shows, buy pieces, then take them to China to be copied (with minor changes of course). I think people are waking up to the cheapness of Chinese junk and are , once again, seeking out quality handmade stuff.


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