# Can Anyone Explain This To Me?



## dndweeks (Jan 17, 2013)

The property we've been considering just got more interesting, but I'm not sure if it's in a good way or bad way.

Originally the seller was selling 6.3 acres and then changed it to 5 acres. We looked at the property as 5 acres, but after looking at it told the realtor we would only consider it if the seller added the 1.3 acres back. There is a large grove of trees on the property that we love, but trees take up land and getting the 1.3 acres back was important for the additional space. The realtor talked to the seller and the seller agreed to add the 1.3 acres back. In addition, the seller owns 3 more acres connected to this property and said he was going to think about selling that as well. 

This morning I got an email from the realtor saying the seller will sell us the entire 9.3 acres, but here is what I don't get. The 5 acres was being sold at $6980 per acre and the 6.3 acres is being sold at $7127 per acre. If we buy the full 9.3 acres the price jumps to $9032 per acre.

Why does more land equal more per acre?

Granted, we can certainly put in an offer that is much lower, but I'm trying to understand the big price difference. Can anyone explain this to me?


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## Gianni (Dec 9, 2009)

The seller values the ground @ different rates for production would be my guess.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Sounds too me like the seller is off their rocker... I'd also wonder how all of that land is titled and described in the title/titles.......


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

All in all, wooded land sells for more than bare land.


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## dndweeks (Jan 17, 2013)

Gray Wolf said:


> All in all, wooded land sells for more than bare land.


However, the additional 3 acres he wants to sell us has no trees on it. For a matter-of-fact, the majority of the trees are on the 5 acres which is the lowest price per acre. Getting the additional 1.3 acres would give us the rest of the trees, plus some land. Also, only a tiny portion of the 3 acres has been farmed. It's nothing but grass.


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## dndweeks (Jan 17, 2013)

simi-steading said:


> Sounds too me like the seller is off their rocker... I'd also wonder how all of that land is titled and described in the title/titles.......


I agree that the seller is off his rocker on this. He's selling land that has been either corn or soybeans for less than he's selling land that has had nothing on it at all. We're still waiting to get some questions answered on the property and I think I'll add a request for a title description to my list of questions. 

We're not motivated enough buyers to pay over $2000 more per acre.


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## farmer9989 (Apr 22, 2008)

He him self probably paid more for the last 3 acres or wanted to keep it .
the way it came about you are buying each parcel individually.
so the price per acre isn't the way he priced it.


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## dndweeks (Jan 17, 2013)

farmer9989 said:


> He him self probably paid more for the last 3 acres or wanted to keep it .
> the way it came about you are buying each parcel individually.
> so the price per acre isn't the way he priced it.


What's confusing to me is that he listed the entire 11.3 acres is September. It didn't sell so he sold 5 acres at the south end of the property which left 6.3 acres and that was the listing we found. By the time we went to go look at it he had decided it would be easier to just sell another 5 acres and since that would only leave 1.3 acres he would just keep that. We didn't ask for the 3 acres, we just asked for the 1.3 acres to be added back as it was in the listing when we found it. He just decided to sell the additional 3 acres and probably thinks this is a good opportunity to make even more money. He sold the first 5 acres at $6980 per acre which has a fence line of trees on 3 sides. The rest of that 5 acres is farm land, just like the 6.3 acres we've been thinking of buying. I can understand him wanting to jack up the price if we had asked for all 9.3 acres, but we didn't ask for anything other than what was in the original listing that we inquired about.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

around here the acres that touch the road, go for about $4K more than land on the interior of a large property. That may account for it, if the additional land is road frontage.


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## nostawmama (Dec 29, 2011)

IMO- He thinks you want it bad enough to buy all of it, and he wants to make more money on it.

The logic states that you get a better deal per acre buying more land but, personally I would be willing to pay more per acre for a bigger parcel because that is what I find desirable. I would have to get a really good deal per acre to settle for less land than what I would like, but would be okay paying higher per acre to get a good sized parcel.


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## dndweeks (Jan 17, 2013)

AngieM2 said:


> around here the acres that touch the road, go for about $4K more than land on the interior of a large property. That may account for it, if the additional land is road frontage.


This property is zoned AG but on the outskirts of a small town. The last street in town runs the entire length of the property. The difference could be that there is easier access to the property from the 3 acres, but we would be paying over $35,000 more to get the additional 3 acres and it won't cost us that much to gain easy access from the street to the rest of the property. However, that is a good point and is probably one reason the seller wants to up the price so much.

There is a small hill in the middle of the 3 acres and I just keep thinking how nice it would be to put goats there. They would have so much fun with that hill. Just not $35,000 more fun:yuck:


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

Ahhhh. Development potential to subdivide it into "x" number of building lots if the town annexes your side of the street. Street, and probably utilities, already somewhat installed would make it a cheap project to do. Not buying raw land - buying future lots.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Where we bought land in WV, tillable cleared land is worth about twice what wooded land is...


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## dndweeks (Jan 17, 2013)

Gray Wolf said:


> Ahhhh. Development potential to subdivide it into "x" number of building lots if the town annexes your side of the street. Street, and probably utilities, already somewhat installed would make it a cheap project to do. Not buying raw land - buying future lots.


The entire 9.3 acres has access to city water, phone, cable, natural gas and electric. We have to pay to have lines run to connect, but it's available so technically the entire 9.3 acres could be developed if the town annexed that side of the road. 

I've sent a note to the realtor asking for the title description of the property. It's all connected and I am assuming it's all zoned AG, but need to have that information confirmed. 

There are a lot of really good things about the entire property and it has tons of potential, but we haven't had all our questions answered. This additional 3 acres really could make or break the deal for us at this point. Right now I feel like the seller is taking full advantage of a potential sale to make as much money as he possibly can off the deal. Most people invest in property with the hope that it will be worth more down the road, so I can't say I blame him for wanting to make a good profit off the land. However, we want the property to build our homestead with chickens, goats, garden, orchard, etc. We plan to stay there and leave it to our kids when we're gone. For us it's a lifestyle investment. We don't want to spend so much on property that it takes us twice as long to build our homestead. We have said several times that we wish we would have done this years ago, but life dealt us a hand of cards that didn't allow us to play the homesteading game until now. Not that $9032 per acre is necessarily a bad deal in some areas, but when it jumps from $6980 per acree to $9032 per acre, that's a pretty big difference. 

For now we'll have to see if we can get all our questions answered and then decide if we make an offer on this property or continue looking.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

It's entirely possible that the seller isn't _thinking _about this at all, he's doing a combination of _feeling _about what the price should be, and throwing out round numbers.

5 acres @ $6,890 is $34.9K
6.3 acres @ $ is $44.9K
9 acres @ $ is $84K

Roughly speaking, those are round numbers, and he's probably not really thinking in terms of 'per acre', but more of the round numbers, and maybe a little bit about how he's got your attention on the hook.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

I'd say that you give him a much lower offer -- say 55K for the 9.3 acres. That's 5K for each acre, rounded down instead of up. It's not much below the original per-acre price, and if presented to him in per acre terms, rather than as a total amount, there's a better chance that you'll get closer to it, I think.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

I would not give him the time of day.

The seller is extremely greedy. He does not demonstrate any "need" to sell the property. So at best he is not motivated.

The Realtor is also extremely greedy. Since the numbers keep changing it would seem that there is no "written" listing. Just a conversation. Most if not all states require a "written" listing, for a very good reason. A seller who keeps changing prices will also get a deal started and then attempt to change the commission terms with the Realtor, almost every time. 

Greed trumps need, and honesty almost all of the time.

If it were me: I would just shut up, and walk away. If I had a comment at all it would be that there are millions of acres of property for sale in my state. I need to get started looking for one that I like. Good bye.

The greedy seller, and the greedy Realtor can learn together that 100% of nothing is still nothing (less expenses).


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## dndweeks (Jan 17, 2013)

Narshalla said:


> It's entirely possible that the seller isn't _thinking _about this at all, he's doing a combination of _feeling _about what the price should be, and throwing out round numbers.
> 
> 5 acres @ $6,890 is $34.9K
> 6.3 acres @ $ is $44.9K
> ...


You may be absolutely right.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

What do you want to pay to own this land. Make an offer. When you become the owner of this intersting parcel you will then be the one that establishes the new price. Value is different and often not related to the purchase price.

I see lots of Ag land within the magic 5 mile circle of town that is offered at $10K per acre with only a sign. It is not listed with a realtor. The public/market has decided over the last year or two that it is over priced and thus over valued in as much as it has not been sold. I think that the price and value will come togehter and this example property will be sold eventually. I have seen this price at auctions for much larger parcels.

I too would make an offer that was comfortable to me, and expect that I might need to adjust a little. 

You could pay $10K per acre and the seller could still think that they could have gotten more and be sorry. You could pay less and think that you could have gotten it for less and still be sorry. 

Don't be too hard on the realtor. They have had it pretty tough too for a few years. A 6 to 10 % commisson on this sale, which may have to be split, it is not going to make or break them, nor is it the buyer or seller. The realtor has vehicles to pay for, gas to buy, groceries, medicines, insurance, clothes, rent or mortage, taxes, homesteads...

If you are close to making an offer, someone else is on the way too. That's just how it is.

I promise that when you buy it you will want to sell it for as much as the market will say that it is worth. Or the market could be someone else. I hope you will both do good and enjoy it all the time that you have it.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

He is asking$34,900 for 5 acres, $10,000. for 1.3 acres and $39.079. for the 3 acres. 
If you do not buy it all, can he divide what is left into lots? Would you buy this property knowing you may have a subdivision as a neighbor?


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## dndweeks (Jan 17, 2013)

haypoint said:


> He is asking$34,900 for 5 acres, $10,000. for 1.3 acres and $39.079. for the 3 acres.
> If you do not buy it all, can he divide what is left into lots? Would you buy this property knowing you may have a subdivision as a neighbor?


We've discussed all the possibilities of what he would do with this property if we don't buy it. 

I really believe the seller is taking full advantage of our interest in the property and feels like he has an opportunity to get a lot of extra cash out of the deal. Hubby and I are going to discuss it more tonight, but we're leaning heavily toward walking away and will keep looking until we find something better.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

dndweeks said:


> We've discussed all the possibilities of what he would do with this property if we don't buy it.
> 
> I really believe the seller is taking full advantage of our interest in the property and feels like he has an opportunity to get a lot of extra cash out of the deal. Hubby and I are going to discuss it more tonight, but we're leaning heavily toward walking away and will keep looking until we find something better.


Aside from the seller, it sounds like a decent property. Before you walk away, make an offer -- say, 45K. It's low, true, but this is a goose and gander thing, so why not.

If he accepts, well, you won. If not, keep looking until the end of July or so, and then offer him 40K. If you get accused of jerking him around, well -- pot, meet kettle.


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## dndweeks (Jan 17, 2013)

You've all given me a lot of things to consider about this property. Then last night I discovered the additional 3 acres are zoned sub, not AG. That's not what we were lead to believe. We could probably get the zoning changed, but this situation, along with some other things, have made us decide to step away from this property and continue searching.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm kinda wondering though if he starts splitting this stuff up, will he be land locking parcels, and make you add a right of way on your property for who ever buys the other parcels if you don't buy it all?


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## dndweeks (Jan 17, 2013)

simi-steading said:


> I'm kinda wondering though if he starts splitting this stuff up, will he be land locking parcels, and make you add a right of way on your property for who ever buys the other parcels if you don't buy it all?


We would pretty much be required to purchase the entire property to avoid this type of thing as well. 

While having 9.3 acres isn't a bad thing at all, this feels like we're being forced into buying the entire thing for a higher per acre price. My gut was telling me that we needed to walk away and as fate would have it, hubby now has a potential job opportunity that would allow him to work primarily from home. If he gets the job, we could live anywhere we choose which would allow us to expand our search criteria to states other than Illinois. So were going to walk away for now, hope that things work out with the new job and then look property that is less than $80,000.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

You laid your cards on the table....you let the seller know the extra acreage is important to you.

That is why the price went up.

Nothing sinister. Just normal market reaction to demand.


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## dndweeks (Jan 17, 2013)

tarbe said:


> You laid your cards on the table....you let the seller know the extra acreage is important to you.
> 
> That is why the price went up.
> 
> Nothing sinister. Just normal market reaction to demand.


You are absolutely right. The 6.3 acres was important to us and that's why we inquired about it to begin with. The seller removed 1.3 acres, but we didn't know that until the day before we went to look at the property. Even though we didn't ask for the additional 3 acres, I have no doubt that telling the seller we wouldn't consider the property without the additional 1.3 acres being added back as it was listed, was enough to make him consider and then eventually offer us the additional 3 acres.

I'm also bothered by the fact that the listing still hasn't been changed. It's still listed as 6.3 acres - not 5 acres and not 9.3 acres. Sinister or not, there is something that just doesn't feel right about this to me and if it doesn't feel right, it's time to walk away and keep looking.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

It's ok to trust your feelings. Sometimes you have to push past your feelings a little and temper them with outside expertise. You are close. You can make an offer with your terms and conditions. Good luck.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

I would be concerned about property that can be so easily divided, especially close to town. I'd be afraid of getting a bunch of new neighbors.


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## stickinthemud (Sep 10, 2003)

I don't know how things work in Illinois, but around here property taxes are a major concern. The more you pay for your property, the more you will pay forever & ever. The current owner is probably paying per-lot prices for the non-ag-zoned property & just wants to get what they're 'worth'. He may even suspect you are planning to develop the entire property & wants to get in on the $$$.


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