# Rubble trench foundation



## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

Normaly there is a concreat grade beam poured on top of these things but I dont want to pay around 1500 bucks localy for enough to do my house. I have spoken with many others people on other forums and they have told me that tires packed with gravel will be just as good if not better. I have done a lot of resreach on this and feel that they are right. Just wondering if anyone here has done it. Gravel is 11.50 a ton for 57's and concreate is 98 a cubic yard so big pric difference. Also I have lots of old tires and most shops around here will let you have them since they normaly have to pay 2 buck each to get rid of them. Free is not good but great.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

What kind of house are you building? I'd not hesitate to build an entire wall out of tires... usually they're packed with dirt, not gravel. 

Are you thinking about digging a trench and filling it with tires, and then gravel? or just tires lined up and packed with gravel.

If your building a home on top of a line of tires, packed with gravel, I'd want to have some termite proof material... dirt, rock, cob... for the walls. Any wood would be a free feeding zone for termites.

Foundations are my weakness... some of the stuff is just too intensive for one person to handle. And, without a strong perfect foundation, everything else is suspect. If this is to be your one and only home, I'd dollar up and get something tried and true for the foundation. If it fails, tearing down a house to replace it would be troublesome. Fixing an experimental window or other above grade project is just a matter of fixing that one problem, and not affecting the entire home.

I tried to cut corners building my first house... and have paid for it ever since. Next home will have a bombproof foundation, with diddly for tiny varmints to chew on... or through...:grin:

Of course, you could be the pioneer in the field, so to speak.


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

I haven't done a foundation, but did build a root cellar out of tires packed with dirt. It was free, it was sturdy, rock solid and I will _never_ do that again. The amount of work is unbelievable! And wear and tear on the body. Since I'm somewhat ambidexterous, I used both hands, trading off. Both arms below the elbow went numb after a couple weeks of this. They did get better, but it comes and goes still. It's very discouraging how many wheelbarrow loads of dirt one stinkin' tire will hold!


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

I would build a foundation in sections with concrete as I had the money. Just make sure you leave the rebar protruding enough to get the right overlap. The foundation is something I'd spend extra money on to make sure I never ever ever had a problem especially if you're going to be laying concrete block.

It would be worth it to me even if I had to pay more per yard if I couldn't buy the minimum number of yards. I've seen way too many problems with foundations even those built by folks who supposedly knew what they were doing. Tell the driver you want the slump 4" or less to get the best strength. If you're working it by yourself ask the concrete plant how much Delvo would cost. Delvo will retard setup and give you more time to place the concrete without losing strength.

If the concrete looks like runny slop (soup) as it goes in, you're getting crap. Add as little water as possible.


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## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

The rubble trench I know is a very strong and good foundation I could place my earthbag stemwall right on it if I wasn't slightly worried that some water may get there and cause a little swelling since my dirt fill is heavy in clay. Heck maybe better to just mix a little sand in there and be done.

The tires word hold the earth bags of the rubble, pack them with gravel so they don't hold water then place my cordwood on top of a double course of bags. The roof and floor will be on post and beam. As far as the packing being hard work I can get a air tamper if need be. I have done the resreach to know the idea works and is in use. Other forums have been going on about it so I was just seeing if anyone here had done it.

One of the few buildings to servive the 1950's(I think that was the decade have to recheck my materails) Tokoy eartherquack was built on a rubble trench. Many of the buildings of actient Rome were too. Even some of those still standing. Some new sky scrapers are even sitting a version of rubble trench and rubber. The trench moves less during siesmic events and unlike todays concreat does not ever rot. and since they are usally wider then a normale concreat footer spend the weight out a little more.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Nothing wrong with rubble trench though it wont meet any current building codes. The problems I've seen with them on older buildings is that people cheaped out. A foot wide, six inch deep trench of gravel isnt going to cut it. 

I helped with a rubble footed building some years ago, we made four foot deep, four foot wide trenches, filled them with junk field stone, then built fieldstone rock walls starting on top of the rubble about foot below grade. No cracks after lot years now. It works. Its super cheap. Your back will hurt unless you are mechanized. Should say it will also depend on your soil structure. Have tough old red clay here, those rocks arent going anywhere.


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## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

I am not going plum cheap HermitJohn and Ithank you for the info. I just done a jar soil test of the house site, cause my land has a couple of soil structures on it, for my earthbag part and turns out almost pure red clay with sharp rock so like you said don't feel that the rock will move. The frost line around here is about 18 inch so I am going down to 24 inch deep and 3foot wide. Going to use junk field stone as the bottom layer of rubble then use some 57 size gravel tamper as I comeup in the trench plus it will use the french drain system to move any water that may get in there. Which should be very little since there will be a 6 foot porch all the way around the house other then the back which will have a larger deck.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

I helped hand dig a footing for a home when I was a kid and wondered if we would ever get it done. Then, we spend the entire summer carrying loose stones to fill it back up. It was 2' wide and averaged 3' deep and still holds a 36X50 3-story "A" frame today without any problems whatsoever. The excavation for the foundation was in gray colored clay soil from the surface to the bottom and is holding up quite well. 

For the uncle I helped do it, money wasn't the issue. He wanted something that was more flexible in clay that expands and contracts with moisture levels.


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## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

Francismilker do you know if your uncle placed a drainage pipe in the bottom of the trench befor filling with rock?


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

countryboy84 said:


> Francismilker do you know if your uncle placed a drainage pipe in the bottom of the trench befor filling with rock?


If you Google Superior wall precast foundation, you will find a product that is common in this area and sits on a rubble trench. From talking to inspectors and other builders, It appears that failures are not uncommon and are primarily due to poor compaction and a lack of drainage. There are also more complicated issues of dewatering in expansive soils and silt migration in others, but that gets a little more complex. AS a minimum,here is heavy frost country, I would want an effective drainage system starting at the bottom of the trench.


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## jonathan bair (Dec 28, 2010)

being a concrete contractor, and having done many foundations, I will say that is time verses money. Once the ditch is dug, rebar in place, step downs if any, you pour. A foundation of 150 feet can be dug (machine), formed and rebar, tamped, and poured in 2 days. Wait 2 more days, and start laying block. A footer 150 linear feet, is about 7.5 yards, or 726 bucks. five courses of block plus mortar-$1000, For 1800 bucks, you are rock solid, and absolutely flat and level.
How long will it take to grade those tires flat, and fill them with gravel? its time versus money. If you dont have the money, take the time and do it with tires. If you dont have the time, spend the bucks and be on your way.
Either way, good luck. let us know how it goes.


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## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

jonathan thanks for reply. and I have way more time then money. Been keeping on with the resreach on this and know my approach now for sure. as soon as I get enough of the larger stones for the bottom part of the trench I will start digging. It has taken us 5 years to get to the this piont and now I can't wait.


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