# Backup Heat Source- 100 pound propane tank?



## Simpler Times (Nov 4, 2002)

We heat with wood. That means when we have to leave for over a day we come home to an ice cold house. Electric space heaters aren't an option. We are considering getting a ventless 10,000 btu propane wall heater and attaching it through the wall to a 100 gal propane tank for a cost of less than $200. Harbor Freight has the heaters for around $50 (with coupon) and WalMart.com has the tanks for about $120.00. U-Haul says they will fill the tank for around $60. If my calculations are correct that set up would provide up around 7 days and nights of back up heat. Except in an emergency we would never be gone over a couple of days when we would need to rely on the backup heat. I know it wouldn't heat the entire house but I think it would heat at least one room/possibly two rooms so they would be livable when we returned, the pipes wouldn't freeze, houseplants wouldn't die, etc. Does anyone have any insight on this approach? We have a truck but how difficult would it be to transport the tank etc? Would it have to be transported upright or could it be secured in the truck bed on its side? We are in the backwoods so code etc isn't a concern except I don't want to blow up the house obviously or kill us with a gas leak. If we went the traditional route of buying/renting a large tank the costs would be too much for right now. They won't deliver less than 200 gallons and that would be around $500 for the gas alone. Like I said, this is really just an occasional need so a huge upfront cost isn't justified.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

We just installed a 10,000 BTU heater in an insulated 8x8 chicken house. On low it is almost too hot. A 40 pound cylinder (10 gallons) lasted about a week. Of course, it has been real cold with the highs not reaching 32F.

Transporting the cylinder is no big deal. Fill it, tilt it into the truck bed, slide her in. Strap it to keep it from moving around too much.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

My dad heated a 1600 sqft house with a 30,000 BTU. I think a room or two would be no problem.

Might want to get a carbon monoxide alarm, though....


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

It would help to know where you live, or what you consider 'cold'.

Here we need a furnace of 100,000btu rating, so a 10,000 wall unit would be about like using a candle.... Today it finally got up to a high of 21 degrees - felt nice.

Obviously, you are in a warmer climate.

I suspect it will work for you, however, ventless heaters are against code for use in a dwelling. You have to decide what that means to you - insurance not paying, how fussy your county inspectors get, and so on.

--->Paul


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## VERN in IL (Nov 30, 2008)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> Transporting the cylinder is no big deal. Fill it, tilt it into the truck bed, slide her in. Strap it to keep it from moving around too much.






> Can I just throw them in the back of my pickup truck?
> You must secure tanks on a flat surface or in racks, and in an upright position in such a way as to minimize movement to each other or the vehicle. Cylinders shall be determined to be leak free before loading into vehicle. NFPA 58 6-2.2.6.
> 
> *A safety note for you: Propane cylinders of the DoT design must be transported and stored in an upright position so the pressure relief device will function properly. Laying the cylinder on its side in the trunk of your car is a potentially very dangerous situation.*


......


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## Horse Fork Farm (Jan 3, 2006)

Thats the setup we used all last winter here. Our heater was a wall mount with 5 radiants in it. A 100# tank lasted close to 2 weeks of normal use here in WV. We had 2 hundred pound tanks-one in use and the other always full and waiting. We also kept a couple of small tanks full at all times so I could change it myself if my husband was at work when it ran out. Even the small tank ran about 3-4 days. This year the wood stove is back up and running and the propane is for emergencies only! Its really no problem though to use the 100# tanks for the entire winter heating season. Kathy


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## mdharris68 (Sep 28, 2006)

rambler said:


> however, ventless heaters are against code for use in a dwelling. --->Paul


Can you specify what "code" you are reffering too please?


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## ThreeRivers (Nov 26, 2008)

We have one of the five brick ones that hang on the wall. We use about two hundred pound tanks a month when its really cold. But most months it will last almost all month. Our heater has the thermostat on it so it will come on and off and not just burn continuously like I have seen some do. We gave something 150 for the heater. We heat about 1300 sq feet with it. We have two other bedrooms we keep closed off and the laundry room as well. I think it would heat those as well will not much more effort though. 

Carbon monoxide tester is desired. Also make sure your heater is like mine. It will shut off if oxygen levels drop too low. Its worth the extra money(less than 100 more) for the oxygen shut off and the thermostat control.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

> Can you specify what "code" you are reffering too please?


 No idea what it is for Paul in MN but in Ontario it'd be CSA B140. Can't reference it more as I don't have a copy here.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

mdharris68 said:


> Can you specify what "code" you are reffering too please?


I'd assume he's talking about the local building codes, or the gas codes..such as this:
_ANSI Z21 11.2 Standard and National Fuel Gas Code revised in 1994 to permit wall mounted installations of vent-free gas heaters of 10,000 Btu or less in bedrooms and 6,000 Btu or less in Bathrooms. As always check local codes.._

We put a ventless wall heater in our "cabin" (an 11x24 insulated room in our Pole Barn) and it works exceptionally well. Even in subzero weather, on the lowest setting it will keep the place 50degrees, 20# tank lasts 4 days (ish) depending on the amount of wind we get.


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## mdharris68 (Sep 28, 2006)

I guess my point was not understood. Where I live, there is an electrical code and plumbing code as well as a gas pipe fitters code, but there is no mechanical code. These ventless heaters are kind of in a grey area. It appears that they fall in the Fuel gas code area. To say they are against code is a blanket statement that just isn't true. I think the proper response would be, "check your local codes to see if they are permitted." Wisconsin Ann's reference to the national code shows just the opposite. But my intention is not to drift to a different topic, so I'll clam it up.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Our propane installer said do NOT use ventless for primary heat. NOTHING burns 100% clean, I don't care what the salesman says.

Direct vent is available and easy to install.

It's better than killing yourself with fumes.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

An aspect to be considered is whether or not your homeowner's insurance would cover a fire if traced back to such a heater. State Farm told me if the fire were traced to a kerocene heater they wouldn't pay anything.

How you handle the bottle may depend on what your refiller is willing to accept. I use a 100 pound tank (which is only about 11 gallons of propane) in the shop to run my forge. When empty I lay it flat in the back of my pickup and tie it off so it doesn't go sliding around. Same for return trip back home.

Locally it cost $85 to have a 100 pound tank refilled. I have a state sales tax exemption since I am using it in a manufacturing process. For someone else cost would be about $94.

I also have oxygen and acetylene bottles refilled. Here the local swap-out place won't load them in the pickup.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Rose said:


> Our propane installer said do NOT use ventless for primary heat. NOTHING burns 100% clean, I don't care what the salesman says.
> 
> Direct vent is available and easy to install.
> 
> It's better than killing yourself with fumes.


I used to be a firefighter, and I was taught something similar. However, I'm also a chemical engineer (by both degree and trade). Therefore, when considering a furnace for my cabin I decided to look at the facts.

The fact is that propane burns very clean. While there is some carbon monoxide found in propane combustion gasses, it's not enough to create dangerous levels for humans. When a CO alarm is also used, you can be sure that the CO level is safe.

However, with an unvented furnace you need to follow a few rules.


Allow at least 50 cubic feet of volume for each 1,000 btu/hour of furnace heating capacity.
Do not place the furnace in a space that can be isolated with a door, such as a bedroom or bathroom, unless that room has the minimum 50 cubic feet for each 1,000 btu/hour of furnace heating capacity.
Be sure that your furnace is equipped with an Oxygen Depletion Sensor (ODS) that will shut-off the furnace if the oxygen level in the room drops below 18%.
Use a CO alarm.
Really, if you think about it you'll realize that a propane range is unvented and puts out about as much heat as a wall furnace when the oven & burners are in use cooking a large meal. Certainly, no one is afraid to use a range that's putting out the same combustion gasses that a wall furnace would.

I use an unvented 20,000 btu/hour wall heater to heat my cabin. The CO alarm has never sounded, and I've found the unvented wall heater to be entirely satisfactory for primary use. I certainly would have no problem recommending one for back-up use.

I'm not surprised that your propane installer told you that, but I suspect that he has had limited training in this area and has not researched the facts independently. He was probably repeating information that had heard, which probably had the confidence level of rumors, superstition, and wives tales.

The more you learn about it the better you'll feel about it.


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## Marie04 (Mar 3, 2008)

That's a good point about propane gas ranges. We had one of those when we first got married 37 years ago, and it was just a little apartment size stove. We kept two tanks outside, one in use and one as a spare. Many years later we bought a rental house, and one of them had one of these heaters as a backup in a porch area. My husband removed it from that house when he remodeled, but we have it in another unit as a backup. My husband is no expert except having done most things himself all his life, and he thinks they are very nice, clean, and do the job well. Better to have some kind of backup than all the losses of no heat. Getting a detector would be a good idea too. Both the heater and the detector would mean peace of mind, in my opinion, from what I've observed.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Simpler Times said:


> Harbor Freight has the heaters for around $50 (with coupon) and WalMart.com has the tanks for about $120.00. U-Haul says they will fill the tank for around $60.


Yes, I'm paying about $60 to fill a 100# tank. I was paying closer to $80, but propane has come down. A 100# tank will hold about 23 gallons. I can handle it just fine when it's empty, but the guy who fills it helps me slide it up into my SUV. I can side it out by myself when it's full without a problem.

I got a 100# tank last year at Home Depot for $89, but this year they are $129. I think that's outrageous, but hopefully tank prices will come back down again soon.

My cabin is small, about 400 sq ft, but a 100# tank lasts me about two weeks. I can't imagine your burning a 100# tank in a week, particularly when using a wood stove along with it.

I don't know what kind of heater you can get for $50. A satisfactory heater with a thermostat will typically cost about $100 to $150 (delivered). They are available in 10K, 20K, and 30K btu/hour models, all at about the same price. Here's an example, although it's overpriced.

http://cgi.ebay.com/20-000-BTU-Propane-Blue-Flame-Wall-Heater-w-Thermost_W0QQitemZ220320961373

I think you'll find the thermostatically controlled ventless propane furnace to be a nice addition to your home. In the event of your wood stove fire getting low at night, the thermostat will come on and keep your home comfortable.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Marie04 said:


> We kept two tanks outside, one in use and one as a spare.


Oh yes, I almost forgot. If you have a lot of pilots in your house like I do you'll want to switch to your backup propane tank automatically. You can do that with an RV regulator. You can get those at any local RV supply store for around $45 (plus hoses, which are $10 to $15 each). It will look like this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mars...5fRVQ5fTrailerQ5fCamperQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Note that it has a colored indicator on the right side. It's red now, but at that angle you can see a little green. Here's how it works.

If you start with two full tanks it doesn't matter which way the handle is turned. Let's say we start with two full tanks and the handle turned towards the left tank, as in the photo. The indicator will be green, indicating that the left tank is full, and the regulator will draw from the left tank. When the left tank goes empty the regulator will 1) automatically start drawing from the right tank, and 2) the indicator will pop to 1/2 red & 1/2 green, indicating that the tank that the handle is pointing towards is empty but the other tank has gas. When that happens you turn the handle to the right (indicator will pop to green) and remove the left tank to refill it. After replacing the left tank with a full one, the left tank will become the backup, and the process repeats in reverse.

That way the pilots always stay lit.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Who has an unvented gas or propane range??? Ours most certainly are vented. Range hoods... way cool invention. :happy:

I understand all the safety precautions, and if that's the way you want to go, good on you. 

The instructions also tell you about having adequate air exchange, etc., which means that it is using the oxygen in your room/house. 

I just won't do it for me or my family or the folks in my rental properties. It's so much easier and safer to err on the side of caution.

It's amusing that people get killed on a regular basis by generators when the power is out, but other blithely put unvented propane in their homes.:viking:


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

I paid $200 for the 10,000 BTU heaters I installed. They come equipped with the ODS (oxygen depletion sensor). And let me tell you, it was a bear getting it to stay lit. Luckily the dog house and chicken house are kinda experimental. You need 10 sq inch to fresh air near the burner. I used a 1 1/2 bit to poke some holes in the wall. I put PVC pipe in the hole to keep the insulation from blocking the inlet. Of course, you may not want to do this in your house! 

Yes, as Ken said, lay the cylinder flat in your truck. I had to laugh by you quoting the NFPA for "proper transport." I deal with that crap everyday and it gets tiresome. Now, if you are a trucker or local hauler, then the cylinders must be handled as such. But Mr. Consumer can just throw it in the back and be done with it.


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## Marie04 (Mar 3, 2008)

I wonder if RVs normally have these regulators on the propane tanks.. Someone told us to keep one tank off because if they switch over automatically you might run out, not knowing that the tanks switched.. I'll have to ask hubby about this option, or if the regulator has the colored indicators...


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> I paid $200 for the 10,000 BTU heaters I installed. They come equipped with the ODS (oxygen depletion sensor). And let me tell you, it was a bear getting it to stay lit.


I've heard that ODS can be a problem at high altitudes. They don't recommend them for altitudes above 4500 feet. I'm at 5170 and didn't have a problem. You may be at too high of an altitude for ODS to be practical.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

I used a 20,000 BTU vent-less propane heater last year with a 100 pound tank. It was very expensive and it didn't heat the house worth a darn. But then this was in 10 to 20 below temps in a drafty mobile home. Another thing was there was a lot of moisture in the air. I blocked off most of the house and the condensation in the cold areas froze making it look like the inside of a McDonalds walk-in freezer. I wasn't very impressed, and it isn't getting used this winter. Instead I think a waste oil burner would give off much more heat, be cheaper to run, and there is no carbon monoxide to worry about. There are plenty of plans out there on the internet for non-electric radiant waste oil heaters.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Rose said:


> It's amusing that people get killed on a regular basis by generators when the power is out, but other blithely put unvented propane in their homes.:viking:


Big difference. Last winter I had difficulty starting my generator, so I rolled in up into the cabin to warm it up. After a few hours it started right up for me, but before I could get it turned off the CO alarm started sounding. It doesn't take long (perhaps 20 seconds) for a 6 1/2 HP generator to create dangerous levels of CO in a cabin.

While the problem is still with CO, comparing generator exhaust gasses to propane furnace gasses isn't valid. If the propane flame is adjusted to be blue, as it should be, there's almost no CO at all being produced (normally about 1 ppm, depending on flame quality).


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

The declare in the documentation WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE SAFE FOR USE INDOORS. 

Shop heaters are not safe in the house.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> The declare in the documentation WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE SAFE FOR USE INDOORS.
> 
> Shop heaters are not safe in the house.


Like one of these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/REDDY-HEATER-HD15G-HEAT-DEMON-Propane-Heater-NEW_W0QQitemZ150317546599

Yes, those are not safe to use indoors. I don't know that the combustion gasses are unsafe, but the tank itself isn't safe to be stored indoors.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Perfect combustion is not assured in that burner.

It is also a severe fire hazard. 

And, as you stated, having a 20 lb propane bomb in the house is not recommended.


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## Pink_Carnation (Apr 21, 2006)

A difference that you should note on propane stoves versus a heater is the length of time is is likely to run. As well as all the stoves I've seen would say not to use them for heat because of a build up of fumes.

When it is cold without power you might not have very much air exchange and that can cause even more build up than they expect.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> Perfect combustion is not assured in that burner.


I suspect that the combustion is satisfactory. It's a lot like the Mr. Heater flame, and that's for home use.

http://www.mrheater.com/productdetails_extended.asp?catid=41&id=24

I use one of those to warm the bathroom on cold mornings.


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## mdharris68 (Sep 28, 2006)

Nevada said:


> I used to be a firefighter, and I was taught something similar. However, I'm also a chemical engineer (by both degree and trade). Therefore, when considering a furnace for my cabin I decided to look at the facts.
> 
> The fact is that propane burns very clean. While there is some carbon monoxide found in propane combustion gasses, it's not enough to create dangerous levels for humans. When a CO alarm is also used, you can be sure that the CO level is safe.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the list dealing with the oxygen requirements, and the oxygen depletion sensor. I was trying to find that info but couldn't come up with it. 

Anyhow, I have installed a few ventless heaters for customers that asked me to, but once again, I don't recommend them, especially to anyone that isn't sharp enough to follow all of the guidelines and keep them clean and well maintained. And most if not all were for back up use during power outages.
As a side note, I have a commercial oven in my house that I had to replace the thermocouple on the other day, and I cleaned the burner and pilot. So after I did this, I turned on the oven and checked the CO level coming out the back vent, and it was at 93 ppm. (I have a single gas anylizer for CO that I use for work.) So I checked my gas dryer, and it was at 0 ppm CO level. My water heater was at 34 ppm. I am trying to figure out how my dryer runs so clean.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pink_Carnation said:


> A difference that you should note on propane stoves versus a heater is the length of time is is likely to run. As well as all the stoves I've seen would say not to use them for heat because of a build up of fumes.
> 
> When it is cold without power you might not have very much air exchange and that can cause even more build up than they expect.


We get down to -10 a few times each year here and the CO alarm has never been set off by the furnace.

Propane combustion gasses normally have about 1 ppm CO, but it's said that there are no negative health effects with concentrations up to 70 ppm. The CO alarm will sound at 50 ppm.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Info from a propane gas company:

http://www.permagas.com/article_Ventless_Heaters_feb_2005.htm

"Yes, a propane heater without a chimney or vent is legal, but it may be dangerous. A ventless heater uses oxygen from inside your room to support its combustion, and can produce carbon monoxide in return."

From another source:

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-ventless-gas-fireplaces.htm

"Several states within the United States, as well as other countries, have completely outlawed ventless gas fireplaces because of health concerns. Canada, Massachusetts, and California don't allow people to install these types of heaters because of their potential to build up carbon monoxide, deplete oxygen, and lead to unconsciousness or even suffocation. Check with your local building code before purchasing one of these appliances.

A milder health hazard offers another disadvantage to this choice. Ventless gas fireplaces lead to an increase in the room's humidity. Burning gas or propane creates water vapor that can build up in a room and possibly lead to mold and mildew growth. If most forms of mold aren't truly dangerous, they will certainly increase allergies and could spoil fabric, photographs, and books."

From a heater seller's website:

http://www.alsheating.com/PropaneHeater.htm

"Very Important Notice:
Please do NOT call if you are looking for an UN-VENTED propane heater as that is NO different than going into your garage, shutting all the doors, starting your car and then laying down for a very long and permanent sleep - Good Luck!"


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

mdharris68 said:


> I am trying to figure out how my dryer runs so clean.


It's possible that the combustion gasses don't vent out the dryer vent. They could vent into the room.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Rose said:


> From your first link:
> 
> Carbon monoxide is an odorless, tasteless gas and you may not know it is there until after it puts you to sleep. How much carbon monoxide is too much? 200 parts per million (ppm) can make you sleepy, 800 ppm can make you unconscious within 2 hours, and dead within 3 hours.


But if the alarm warns you if there's 50 ppm, and the alarm never goes off, then who cares what it does at 200 ppm?



Rose said:


> Ventless heaters are required to have an oxygen sensor to detect a lack of oxygen, but they only work at the heater, not where you are sitting.


What on earth are they talking about?!


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## artificer (Feb 26, 2007)

An option that negates the entire safety isuue is the direct vent propane heater. Same no power thermostat. Same use of propane for backup heating. Only problem is that they cost about $450 vs the $100 for the ventless thermostat controlled heater. Those are the prices at the local Menards in Wisconsin. (I missed out on the $299 sale on the direct vent version)

As for them not heating much... they are only 10,000 15,000 or 20,000 btu/hr. Its not fair to compare them with a 75,000btu heater.

The ventless heater we purchased said it wasn't intended as the primary heat. The installation instructions also mentioned the amount of openings needed to supply cumbustion air. They also put water into the air, so the more you use it, the more water. In winter, a certain amount is helpfull. After that you get frosted windows, and other less desireable stuff.

If I had the money, I'd get the direct vent heater. You lose some efficiency, but don't have the safety concerns.

Michael


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

artificer said:


> An option that negates the entire safety isuue is the direct vent propane heater. Same no power thermostat. Same use of propane for backup heating. Only problem is that they cost about $450 vs the $100 for the ventless thermostat controlled heater.


Actually, there are sometimes opportunities for vented propane heaters. There is a crew of guys around here who disappear old mobile homes for a living. The come across them sometimes. But as you said, you lose 20% of your heat up the flue when you vent.


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

I have used ventless 30,000 btu wall mounts for years in different houses and am not writing this from the hereafter. I think the scare on ventless heaters rates right up there with banning raw milk from the farm. Similar to New Jersey outlawing eggs that the yolk wasn't fully cooked.

PURE NONSENSE!


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## Simpler Times (Nov 4, 2002)

Thanks for everyone's input...esp about the expected burn time for a 100 pound tank, how the tanks can be/are commonly transported, and reassurance that others have used similar setups. I intend to use caution as to the safety issues. As I stated in my original post, the set up is intended for use to keep the house above freezing during times we are away from home. Wood provides our primary heat.


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

I guess we are lucky here. We use a 20,000 btu ventless propane heater for back up and have never had a problem. When we first installed it we used it for one month as a test to see how much fuel it would use. A 100 lb tank lasted 29 days and it was cold but not brrr cold. Temps were in the 20s at night. So far this year we have used about 30 lbs. Ours has an o2 sensor and will shut off if it runs low. We heat with wood and coal and use the heater for night use if we don't get up and keep the wood heat going. The old wood heater sure felt good this week with temps down to 6 and 8 at night. good luck with your heat. Sam


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

I have friends using various sizes of the Cozy heater, which is available in direct vent, outside combustion air models http://www.cozyheaters.com/products.php up to 40,000BTUs. Some models use no electricity at all, and they are popular with off-grid electrical systems.

No matter how safe an unvented gas heater is, a vented one would be safer, and one using outside air for cumbustion is safer yet.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

From another expert:

http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hovfsci.htm


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

WisJim said:


> No matter how safe an unvented gas heater is, a vented one would be safer, and one using outside air for cumbustion is safer yet.


How is using outside air for combustion in a vented furnace any safer than using room air? It can't create an oxygen shortage, since there is no way for the furnace to selectively reject nonflammable constituents back into the room.

It's my understanding that furnaces are sometimes equipped with an outside air intake port to make the house more comfortable. If combustion air is drawn from the room, cold outside air has to be drawn through exterior walls into the living space, which creates cold areas near corners.


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## Farmsteader (Nov 7, 2008)

IDee 100% we eat Ranch eggs, Milk Cows for Whole milk ,(Natural), and have used Ventless Heaters for 7+ years as primary Heat Source, yes in Winter we crack a window , we stay toasty and Safe ,maybe with Doggy door as well supplies plenty of Fresh air. In a power outage many of our neighbors wish they had our Ventless Heaters . We do maintain them, keep them dusted .clean and watch for Blue flame, it gets other colors like orange or Yellow constantly that is, shut them off , clean and fire right back up with clean blue flame,keep in mind the color can vary some, but just remember how the flame looks when brand new . All heaters have to be maintained ,not an issue with just one type heater but all. Our tank ofcourse is outdoors, we have decent insulation, this is important . Have a Toasty Safe Winter,


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Who has an unvented gas or propane range???


We do, as do lots of other people, especially in older houses.

We also have an unvented gas heater designed to look like a "fireplace/woodstove", and another radiant type.

Used PROPERLY they are perfectly safe


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## cmtigger (Aug 19, 2011)

WisJim said:


> I have friends using various sizes of the Cozy heater, which is available in direct vent, outside combustion air models http://www.cozyheaters.com/products.php up to 40,000BTUs. Some models use no electricity at all, and they are popular with off-grid electrical systems.


This is what I have, it is one of the models with a blower, so it does use electric, but it "works" when the power is out. It just is a propane hog without the blower.

I've put in a wood fireplace insert to hopefully spend less for heat this winter.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

I lived with a ventless propane heater as my primary heat source for 3 winters in northern Nevada. We had a handful of sub-zero nights each year, but we stayed warm. I got mine at eBay for about $125 delivered. It worked a lot better than our previous Kerosene heater because the propane heater had a thermostat, and our clothes didn't smell of kerosene fumes.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I use ventless heaters...
But usually at least one door is wide open... and usually several, and at least a handful of windows.

I'd not want to rely 100% on ventless heaters, and have an airtight house.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

texican said:


> I use ventless heaters...
> But usually at least one door is wide open... and usually several, and at least a handful of windows.
> 
> I'd not want to rely 100% on ventless heaters, and have an airtight house.


That's what the CO detector is for. You don't want to go ventless without one. But honestly, leaving a door wide open in sub-zero weather isn't really an option.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Zombie thread!


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

jennigrey said:


> Zombie thread!


Yes that is for sure but you wouldn't get me to live in a house with one of those. Ventless one that is. Period.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

arabian knight said:


> Yes that is for sure but you wouldn't get me to live in a house with one of those. Ventless one that is. Period.


Do you know something specific about ventless heaters that makes you not want to be around one?


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## Ramblin Wreck (Jun 10, 2005)

I use a propane wall furnace as supplemental heat in my bathroom, and it has worked very well. As for the tank, if you could possibly get home delivery, it might be worth your while to find/buy a good, used 250 gallon tank (maybe Craig's List). That way you could avoid hauling the tank, and I believe you might get a better price on the propane (but with propane it's somewhat difficult for me to compare gallons to pounds and figure out how I'm coming out price wise...but I do know that filling small grill bottles is much higher on average than my big tank.)

Good luck and stay warm this Winter.


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