# ID or you're going to jail !!!



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

This might get long winded. Tuesday was family work day on the farm. While my brother and I were working on the fences my bil was leveling out the 2500ft driveway. Future zombie from across the road tore down 3 of the mailboxes. We meet with a deputy and he picks up the zombie,we dont press charges we repaired the posts.The deputy was cool with us armed. We go back to my house for a cold one and heard on the scanner suspect in custody.I look out the window and see blue light everywhere at the end of the driveway. Someone ont the scanner says he messed up some mailboxes so we ride up there. Our mailboxes were fine we stayed about 100 ft from the paved road. A State trooper walks down to us and says he wants our Ids.If you dont live here you're leaving if dont show them you're going to jail.DB and BIL just handed them over. I told him he wasnt getting mine and he was on private property. He got ticked and said leave or you get a ride and walked off. LATER I found out there was a double murder next county over and it tied up 25 to 30 leo cars to catch the suspect on a Harley at the driveway.Was I in the wrong????????


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

It's a tough one. On the one hand, you were not legally obligated to show him your ID. On the other hand, showing it to him proves to him you are in fact the property owner and likely improves his attitude a great deal. People lie to cops all the time. You can stand there and tell him it is your property, but if you are reluctant to prove it he probably thinks you are lying.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Yes. And obstructive for no good reason. You didn't even ask what was happening. I know it is fashionable to hate all cops but he was trying to do his duty which included securing the area.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Unless you are in the country illegally, you'll need to show an ID
Maybe the rest of us will get some amnesty someday


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

Having been in the officer's shoes, albeit not at a murder investigation, it can be very distracting to have people milling about while you are trying to do your job. Many states have a vaguely worded law that says one cannot interfere with an officer in the conduct of his duties. If the officer can articulate why your presence was interfering, any charges that result could stick. Even if they don't and you were arrested, it's near impossible to sue for false arrest unless it was an act that would shock the conscience of normal people. 

In similar cases, I asked bystanders to stay at a specific distance where I felt I was safe and could react to any interference they might intend to cause. That way, I could say that I was not restricting their freedoms, but simply slightly limiting them in the interest of their safety and mine.

Another point is that your presence could have unknowingly caused evidence to be destroyed or compromised. How would you like to be the defendant and find out that a bystander picked up the evidence that exonerated you because the police didn't limit anyone's presence?


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> Yes. And obstructive for no good reason. You didn't even ask what was happening. I know it is fashionable to hate all cops but he was trying to do his duty which included securing the area.


Hey he started off on the wrong foot. I knew the suspect was in custody. We dont just drive around scanner chasing. I had a right to be on my own land. There was no way I could get there after him unless I dropped out of the sky..... I get along very well with all the local LEO. He was a Trooper from the next county. He had the attitude when he walked down and talked down to us..........


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

So instead of co-operating you showed pointless attitude as well. Your right but not purposeful or helpful in any way.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

whodunit said:


> Having been in the officer's shoes, albeit not at a murder investigation, it can be very distracting to have people milling about while you are trying to do your job. Many states have a vaguely worded law that says one cannot interfere with an officer in the conduct of his duties. If the officer can articulate why your presence was interfering, any charges that result could stick. Even if they don't and you were arrested, it's near impossible to sue for false arrest unless it was an act that would shock the conscience of normal people.
> 
> In similar cases, I asked bystanders to stay at a specific distance where I felt I was safe and could react to any interference they might intend to cause. That way, I could say that I was not restricting their freedoms, but simply slightly limiting them in the interest of their safety and mine.
> 
> Another point is that your presence could have unknowingly caused evidence to be destroyed or compromised. How would you like to be the defendant and find out that a bystander picked up the evidence that exonerated you because the police didn't limit anyone's presence?


We never got out of the truck and we were about 100 ft from the pavement.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm not sure why you wouldn't show your ID. You knew you had a right to be there, he didn't. 
What's the harm in showing you are who you say you are?


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## Space Cowboy (Apr 26, 2008)

TripleD, I have had interactions with good leo and bad. You were on your private land. He had NO business telling you to do anything. Unfortunately he could have took you to jail and held you for 72 hrs (just to be an SOB). I am currently living in a county where the LEOs are pretty decent. But my Homestead is in a county where the CO sheriff and I hate each other. You have to decide what is wrong and what is right and make a stand if thats what you have to do.

SC


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

TripleD said:


> This might get long winded. Tuesday was family work day on the farm. While my brother and I were working on the fences my bil was leveling out the 2500ft driveway. Future zombie from across the road tore down 3 of the mailboxes. We meet with a deputy and he picks up the zombie,we dont press charges we repaired the posts.The deputy was cool with us armed. We go back to my house for a cold one and heard on the scanner suspect in custody.I look out the window and see blue light everywhere at the end of the driveway. Someone ont the scanner says he messed up some mailboxes so we ride up there. Our mailboxes were fine we stayed about 100 ft from the paved road. A State trooper walks down to us and says he wants our Ids.If you dont live here you're leaving if dont show them you're going to jail.DB and BIL just handed them over. I told him he wasnt getting mine and he was on private property. He got ticked and said leave or you get a ride and walked off. LATER I found out there was a double murder next county over and it tied up 25 to 30 leo cars to catch the suspect on a Harley at the driveway.Was I in the wrong????????


No, you was not in the wrong.

The officer had no reasonable suspicion to detain you. You are not even required to carry ID.

Two thumbs up. :thumb::thumb:


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

TripleD - you asked a question and I gave my opinon and I know you don't like my answer. As I see it the cop looked at your DB and BIL's identification, was satisfied that they were not involved or a threat and forgot about them. You on the other hand are now filed away in his UTJ (unco-operative or troublemaker or jerk) file - a special memory file all cops - and people who work with the public - have. You do have the right to do as you did but was it the right thing to do? IMO- no. You don't have to flex your muscles for everything. Pick your battles.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

His UTJ file ok. I'll take the un-co-operative part of that cause the other 2 dont apply . Good thing he didnt see my ID then now he doesent know my name.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

TripleD said:


> His UTJ file ok. I'll take the un-co-operative part of that cause the other 2 dont apply . Good thing he didnt see my ID then now he doesent know my name.


But he knows your face. I much prefer to stay under the radar and be just a blur.


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## TroyT (Jun 24, 2008)

Laws very from state to state. Some states do have laws requiring you to identify yourself, but that can be done verbally - Hiibel v. 6th Judicial District Court or Nevada. 

That being said there is no legal requirement to carry ID unless you are operating a vehicle on a public road, somewhere they serve alcohol and depending on the state carrying a concealed weapon. For an LEO to detain you, there must be a reason, Terry v Ohio. Otherwise it's a consensual stop and you can just leave. You should ask however, "Am I being detained or am I free to go?" If you are not being detained - go.

So check in your state to be safe.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

What if you are a native born American and you simply _have_ no ID, say, as a matter of conviction in that man was not born to be numbered nor categorized.... ?

Should the political climate devolve to such a state that such obvious threats to mankind simply be shot on sight ?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

i can't answer for other states but in Wisconsin it has been to court and we have a ruling and the city that pushed it got sued and lost 

IN WISCONSIN YOU ONLY NEED AN ID IF: you are driving a car/truck on a public roadway or carrying concealed off your property or private property where you do have the owners permission. 

or i suppose trying to enter the secure area of an airport 

we even had 5 guys carrying open before we had concealed carry when it was open carry only get detained at a Culver's while eating dinner at an outside table 3 produced id 2 refused to provide ID it takes longer but you are under no obligation to do so.

so you must provide id as required when participating in licensed activities.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

If you want to make it a matter of principle, that's fine.

Me, I'd rather pick my battles for when it matters. Since I like to have the LEOs sweep up the criminals, I try to stay out of their way and let them do their job.

I also think it is obnoxious (and not very smart) to pull an attitude with law enforcement. If you are going to stand on your rights, be very polite about it.

As far as I know you are legally obligated to identify yourself in every state in this country. You are perhaps not required to show picture ID, but you are required to identify yourself and if you refuse, the officer can take you in and hold you until you have been identified.


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## bignugly (Jul 13, 2011)

MO_cows said:


> It's a tough one. On the one hand, you were not legally obligated to show him your ID. On the other hand, showing it to him proves to him you are in fact the property owner and likely improves his attitude a great deal. People lie to cops all the time. You can stand there and tell him it is your property, but if you are reluctant to prove it he probably thinks you are lying.


The problem is cops lie to people too! Most have an arrogant attitude without cause also.


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

Were you wrong? I don't know. 
What I do know is that now a deputy from the next county with an attitude has a reason to remember your face. 

I know here there are several sheriffs with tudes I would prefer not to tangle with. They have chips on their shoulders they are looking to dump on some one.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

> As far as I know you are legally obligated to identify yourself in every state in this country.


Only 24 states have some form of that law, and only 5 specifically state that you must provide identification. To the OP, you did nothing wrong, but maybe not the smartest way to handle it. Probably best to pick your battles. I know how it is dealing with jerk cops, though. I might have done the same thing if I was annoyed by his tone.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Forerunner said:


> What if you are a native born American and you simply _have_ no ID, say, as a matter of conviction in that man was not born to be numbered nor categorized.... ?


Identification is an often misunderstood word. Most people think it means some sort of paperwork or card. It doesn't. A name and date of birth or address should suffice. As far as I know, it has yet to be tested whether your full legal name is required, or if possibly a nickname (or even symbol) would be enough.


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## machinistmike (Oct 16, 2011)

yes you were wrong in how you chose to handle yourself. Grow up and stop making it about you all the time. That attitude is a very quick way to empty your wallet fighting the law in courts. Some people have more money than brains I guess. You were rubber necking, mind your business and let those guys get a scumbag off the streets for you.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

while I did clearly state that it is not legally necessary to identify 

learning to deescalate the situation with something like a "whoa buddy I am Pete this is my brother Fred my cousin chuck and this is my drive way and that (point at house) is my house we were just out here doing some work and went in for a break looked out her saw all the lights looks like you have it under control" you have then identified yourself as the land owner of the parcel he is standing on given your first name and nothing much else and the cop can then understand why your there.

the cop is trying to quickly put together who is good , bad , and tensions are high if there are that many police there


now in contrast the 5 men i was talking about in the example i gave hadn't just walked into a crime scene or up to an arrest , they were minding their business eating dinner when 8 squad cars pulled up , they had studied the law knew it and where absolutely going to make a point of the illegitimate arrest, one of the 5 had recently won a judgment for exactly that not providing photo id , they were, are political activists for the open carry movement.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Do you have a drivers license? In Arkansas you must either provide to any police officer or have proof of your name and date of birth or they will hold you to find out in jail if necessary. It only take a few minuets for them to verify the name and date of birth by radio.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> TripleD - you asked a question and I gave my opinon and I know you don't like my answer. As I see it the cop looked at your DB and BIL's identification, was satisfied that they were not involved or a threat and forgot about them. You on the other hand are now filed away in his UTJ (unco-operative or troublemaker or jerk) file - a special memory file all cops - and people who work with the public - have. You do have the right to do as you did but was it the right thing to do? IMO- no. You don't have to flex your muscles for everything. Pick your battles.


Translate;

Big brother knows whats best for. Do not think for yourself and do as your told.

Thinking for yourself and retaining your rights is dangerous to the establishement and will be noted in your "file".


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

Most of you know this is an S&EP forum. Right? On a homesteading site?

For a group that supposedly wants little government involvement on their homesteads, speaks of 'defending their preps' and generally wishes to be self sufficient, a whole bunch sure are willing to lay down and do what their told when big brother comes calling.

How in the world are people going to be prepared to challenge an authority figure if you've never done it? If you won't hold your ground now, chances are you won't do it in a bind either. It you don't insist on keeping your rights now, you don't have any.

I strongly suggest everyone learn to challenge authority when it's called for.

Many times in my life, I've seen the otherwise calm individuals say the dumbest things when police are overbearing. They've never challenged people of authority and have no idea what their rights are. They think they do. but all of them forget the simplest one, keep your mouth shut. They fall apart. They say everything but what they should.

I've been asserting my rights for quite awhile. I've never been arrested for it. It still makes me a tad nervous. Not nearly as nervous as the first time though. I "practice" every time I get pulled over or otherwise come in contact with police. The key is to know your rights, and remain calm.

Most people are not used to challenging authority and calm goes out the window.

Again, I highly recommend learning how to assert your rights. It may be too late when you need them if you can't remain calm.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

I know this would not help in this particular case (because the law was from another county), but one of the first things I plan to do when I move to Ozark county is introduce myself to the County Sheriff and all several of his deputies...maybe even take them to lunch!! I want them to know me, and that I am one of the good guys.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Well since OPSEC is out the window on this it's easy to figure out where I live.... I really dont worry about that . If it takes 25 to 30 Fine upstanding officers and 1 that doesnt know what the rules are thats fine.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

We work with state troopers, plus local LE officers in our firearms business. If asked, even it it were on our property, we'd show ID if they didn't know us personally. 

We'd consider that a courtesy for some people who have a really tough job that's getting tougher every day. They put their lives in the line, so at least we can show them some respect.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Part 2... MOM was well informed of the situation and couldnt get to her house. She is almost 70. She went to the local burger place and saw 4 Troopers there and had to ask if they were on such & such rd earlier. They said yes we were there. She asked if 1 of them had said ID or you're going to jail?? 1 dropped his head and said it was me. She reminded him this wasn't them this wasn't Nazi Germany or the former USSR yet!!!


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

So, suppose I jump into the passenger seat of my truck with my husband driving, I am on my property and I am required to show id, that I left at home on my property. We have leos try that on occasion in Oklahoma but not often. You were not wrong and I totally agree with time.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

julieq said:


> We work with state troopers, plus local LE officers in our firearms business. If asked, even it it were on our property, we'd show ID if they didn't know us personally.
> 
> We'd consider that a courtesy for some people who have a really tough job that's getting tougher every day. They put their lives in the line, so at least we can show them some respect.


I try to work with all LEO but when they walk thru a double 16 ft gate that is open and demand ID I made my choice.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

TripleD said:


> I try to work with all LEO but when they walk thru a double 16 ft gate that is open and demand ID I made my choice.


Yes, you did. It's a fine line. I'd rather end things pleasantly in case I need them out here someday, YKWIM? I want the local guys on my side, which is exactly where they're at.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

julieq said:


> Yes, you did. It's a fine line. I'd rather end things pleasantly in case I need them out here someday, YKWIM? I want the local guys on my side, which is exactly where they're at.


Ok . You lost me on the YKWIM???? And if anyone out the can tell me how to start a new paragraph I know you will like that cause I dont have a clue:grin:


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

TripleD said:


> Ok . You lost me on the YKWIM???? And if anyone out the can tell me how to start a new paragraph I know you will like that cause I dont have a clue:grin:


You Know What I Mean. YKWIM

Hit the enter button twice to start new paragraph


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

YKWIM = You know what I mean?

OK, I've started a new paragraph here. Idaho is where Ruby Ridge happened. If you don't know what Ruby Ridge was about, Google it. If the feds come in and want to arrest me or serve a search warrant, whatever, they have to notify the local sheriff AND obtain his consent. If he and his deputies know us and like us (which they do), we're a lot better off, YKWIM? 

As far as what happened earlier today, think about what these guys are going through for a minute. They need to know who people are who are approaching the scene. They may be gruff about it, but it's part of securing the area. The fastest way to get someone in a better mood, LE or anyone else, is to be friendly and courteous. 

I'm not saying you weren't within your rights, but in my mind you just lost a chance to make a friendly acquaintance with one of your local LE personnel. Just my opinion.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

machinistmike said:


> yes you were wrong in how you chose to handle yourself. Grow up and stop making it about you all the time. That attitude is a very quick way to empty your wallet fighting the law in courts. Some people have more money than brains I guess. You were rubber necking, mind your business and let those guys get a scumbag off the streets for you.


Well I didnt see your post til now. I am very grown up and I see the about me all the time Quote ! Im pretty much sure I have more brains than money but rubber necking is not what I was doing !!! Sir I was on my own family property. THAT WAS MY BUSINESS!!!!!!!


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

DH (dear husband) wanted to add his two cents also. He said he'd hand over his ID, no problem, and he'd give out his business card (firearms business) and offer his services.

Then, he could show business cards from our local Sheriff, Sheriffs in surrounding counties, Idaho State Police, local police department personnel from various cities, ATF, FBI, Border Patrol (DHS), Secret Service, DEA and the State Department. All people he knows personally, from just being the friendly kinda guy he is!


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Part 3 . BIL spoke with the senior Trooper today in this county. He explained what went down. The Trooper flat said the younger Trooper from the next county was in the wrong and could not come on private property in that way.....


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Thanks Time and julieq. It took me three days to put this on here.I know LEO has a tuff time on their jobs. It could have started out better. Going back to ID or you're heading to jail... I think I had some real good feedback here for the most part. I talked with a retired LEO and he said it was handled wrong . He said if the young trooper was alone and needed help he would have had three well capable men to back him up if needed. He knows each of personally.........


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

TripleD said:


> Thanks Time and julieq. It took me three days to put this on here.I know LEO has a tuff time on their jobs. It could have started out better. Going back to ID or you're heading to jail... I think I had some real good feedback here for the most part. I talked with a retired LEO and he said it was handled wrong . He said if the young trooper was alone and needed help he would have had three well capable men to back him up if needed. He knows each of personally.........


TripleD, we're trying to save you some pain and perhaps a nice set of striped PJ's in the future. 

It matters not one iota whether that LE official was right or wrong, you and yours have now thoroughly embarrassed him. Have you ever made a mistake? If a friend makes a mistake, do you cover them or thoroughly embarrass them? We all make mistakes, but unfortunately LE guys make one mistake and get themselves killed all the time. They err on the side of caution and sometimes that comes off in a gruff manner. You caught him in a stressful situation and made it worse.

What if, you had to make a 911 call and this guy was the first responder?! What if you and your neighbor had a beef and he had to choose between the two of you? 

The wise man (woman) chooses his (her) battle. 

I manage a website for free for a local LE/government competition shooting team. I know what stress these guys are under, yet I know them personally and what great family men they are and how little pay they receive for the jobs they do to protect the public. I respect them so very much and am so proud to be able to help them out in a small measure. One of them recently emailed me and said, "If you guys ever need anything, just let us know!" It was his way of saying thank you. 

If I can encourage you, please develop working relationships with your local LE officials. You may really need their help someday.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Hey he started off on the wrong foot. *I knew the suspect was in custody*.


You knew *A *suspect was in custody.
You *DIDN'T* know if there were MORE suspects still at large.

I think he made a reasonable request since YOU went to where HE was


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Im officer x-an- x ,who are you.would you mind identifying your self, could you please show me proof...thank you! 
seem most folks don't like some one else making threats, but will make exceptions.

Yes he could of handled it better, the trooper that is.

More then not I would rather deal with them then some a!se hat local!

its called professionalism!


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

I should add this.

have not been here long just less then a decade.

where I was before was a urban township with police department.

the few times dealing with them, I requested the state troops.
why what yocal dip stick was pushing was not correct!

Same goes here time to time, but its sheriffs.

I find our state boys very professional in their jobs!
not pressing som political Agenda!

Watch the dismay on you local cops when you request state police!

though if you really are in the wrong bad choice!


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

Old Vet said:


> Do you have a drivers license? *In Arkansas *you must either provide to any police officer or have proof of your name and date of birth or they will hold you to find out in jail if necessary. It only take a few minuets for them to verify the name and date of birth by radio.


 Aint that the truth. I was working on a mechanized tie gang for frisco out of Springfield Mo. umpteen years ago and evidently their was a skirmish at a local truck stop over night.
We all wake up the next morning being surrounded by cop cars. And it was friday, Go home day. I wasn't so co-operative as some of the others,, I was young and had an attitude. Long hair and beard,, looked like jesus, or Charles mansfield, depending on your view.
I made them wait a couple hours in the hot sun,, of course the sweltering heat inside the camp cars we lived in wasn't exactly cool.
Then, finally I saundered out ther,, showed my license and went home for the week-end. I was also the last one to get to go home.
I've mellowed over the years,, but I can relate to the OPoster.
GH


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

time said:


> Translate;
> 
> Big brother knows whats best for. Do not think for yourself and do as your told.
> 
> Thinking for yourself and retaining your rights is dangerous to the establishement and will be noted in your "file".


You also wrote : For a group that supposedly wants little government involvement on their homesteads, speaks of 'defending their preps' and generally wishes to be self sufficient, a whole bunch sure are willing to lay down and do what their told when big brother comes calling.



Nonsense. I for one know my rights as I am sure most of the posters here do as well and I more than stand up for them. If challenged I never back down. I am not foolish however and do not draw unnecessary attention to myself. When I make a stand it is for real not because a cop is not diplomatic enough to flatter my ego. Challenging a cop when you don't even know what is going on is also rather pointless. Why would you poke the bear? Just so you can huff and puff? To impress who? Cops make mistakes and sometimes they are on edge. And when that happens how many times does a simple situation get out of hand? 

For people who want to be independent and not have government interference it is vital to stay under the radar. I have always had excellent relations with my neighbours - three of whom are cops - and they have no idea (or interest or concern) in what I am up to.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

julieq said:


> TripleD, we're trying to save you some pain and perhaps a nice set of striped PJ's in the future.
> 
> *It matters not one iota whether that LE official was right or wrong*, you and yours have now thoroughly embarrassed him. Have you ever made a mistake? If a friend makes a mistake, do you cover them or thoroughly embarrass them? We all make mistakes, but unfortunately LE guys make one mistake and get themselves killed all the time. They err on the side of caution and sometimes that comes off in a gruff manner. You caught him in a stressful situation and made it worse.
> 
> ...


It matters not one iota whether LE was right or wrong?

:smack


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## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

If you were on your own property, 100 feet from the public road..... then yes you were technically in the right. 
And I probably would of reacted the same (it's in my nature). 

But I am also able to emphasize..... just because someone (or a group of people) are standing 100 feet off the public road does NOT mean they actually live there and are not part of the suspects they are trying to apprehend. 

All criminals and most suspects would lie. What are the leo's supposed to do? 

(given I don't know the exact specifics of the situation)


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

gilberte said:


> deleted snotty comment was here


I'm almost 50 we all just happen to live on family land. Might be a good thing since this is SE&P :hair By the way I called her because she couldn't get down the driveway. Thanks for you're attiude.


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

If the trooper who did this really is a professional he will accept what he did was wrong and move on, any less is on him not tripleD. He's received a lesson in how not to be a bully and it seems that a lot of law enforcement people are beginning to need that it seems. I think tripleD's mom showed something that people now don't have and that's spunk!


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

You need to check what your state law says. Some states you are required to give them your ID if they ask for it (it's an arrestable offense) and other states your not required to do so, but there are consequence if you've broken the law and don't.

bob


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

N.C is not a stop and ID state. If you are driving on a public road yes you are required to show ID but passengers are not required unless there is Probable Cause


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

It is amazing how many here say "Be a good boy and kiss the cops backside"


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

time said:


> Most of you know this is an S&EP forum. Right? On a homesteading site?
> 
> For a group that supposedly wants little government involvement on their homesteads, speaks of 'defending their preps' and generally wishes to be self sufficient, a whole bunch sure are willing to lay down and do what their told when big brother comes calling.
> 
> ...


Since there was a murder in the area, I think I would have let the authorities make sure they got all the bad guys. Let LEO do their jobs. IMO that's not giving in to big brother, but expecting LEO to do the jobs they get paid for.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

TripleD said:


> I try to work with all LEO but when they walk thru a double 16 ft gate that is open and demand ID I made my choice.


I personally think you made the wrong choice, There was a murder for goodness sakes. I can understand the officer wanting ID in this case. For those that can't, well, I don't know what else to say.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

TripleD said:


> Well I didnt see your post til now. I am very grown up and I see the about me all the time Quote ! Im pretty much sure I have more brains than money but rubber necking is not what I was doing !!! Sir I was on my own family property. THAT WAS MY BUSINESS!!!!!!!


May I ask how old you are? Yes, it was your business, but don't you understand that when a murder happens in the vicinity that LE has to take certain percautions to make it safer for everyone? There's better ways to handle it than trying to show your bravo by refusing to show ID.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Post # 51 I answered it. If the gates were closed could he just climb over them? The murder was 20 miles away. Suspect is on a Harley chased 20 miles and was in custody.


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

Wow, 

You are sure getting a tounge lashing from a couple of folks who apparantly are believe anyone should comply with any demand or request that LEO makes, no matter if it is legal or not. Just thought I would tell you think you did the right thing (LEGAL THING to an IMPROPER DEMAND/ORDER). I would have done the same thing. I don't much cotten to demands. Know your constitutional Rights and defend them!


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Jim-mi said:


> It is amazing how many here say "Be a good boy and kiss the cops backside"


I agree, but I also think it's good to use a little personal diplomacy when dealing with someone who has the power (however wrong it is) to make your life miserable.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Why to people jump to generalizations? I don't think anyone has said we should all jump to every request and surrender our rights. The comments have been that it is wise to use common sense, judge each situation on its merits, not antagonize a situation and pick your battles. It may feel macho and hembra at the time but you should ask yourself what it actually gains you.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

OP knows who he is, but the police don't. The police just had a high risk arrest of a dangerous suspect after a dangerous high speed chase.

For all the officer knew at the time, suspect could have been rushing home and OP might have been his family coming out to render aid. Didn't OP say he was walking around his farm armed?

I don't think the LEO was out of line.

Whether OP was in the wrong or not depends upon how he addressed the officer and how he refused. If he was polite but firm, then he was within his rights. If he pulled an attitude (which is often what happens when people are standing on their rights) then he was being foolish. Perhaps not in the wrong, but not being very smart, either.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

It is you jumping to the front of the bus with all your aspirations about this case.

It is you claiming that any one who does not keel down to a LEO is "not good".


Got news for ya emdeengee, you are the one stiring the pot hear...............


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Jim-mi said:


> It is you jumping to the front of the bus with all your aspirations about this case.
> 
> It is you claiming that any one who does not keel down to a LEO is "not good".
> 
> ...


Nonsense. I never said that "any one who does not keel down to a LEO is "not good". That is your interpretation and it is faulty.

I clearly answered the question the OP posed with my opinion. The OP (according to his post) did not even know what was going on before he got on his high horse. The cop obviously let his stress (or maybe just his excitement) over rule his manners and procedure but co-operation would have been simple and sensible. Not everything in life is an affront to your honour and rights and certainly not worth the kind of conflict (and complete waste of time) that can result.


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## bbigcnote (Mar 13, 2011)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> i can't answer for other states but in Wisconsin it has been to court and we have a ruling and the city that pushed it got sued and lost
> 
> IN WISCONSIN YOU ONLY NEED AN ID IF: you are driving a car/truck on a public roadway or carrying concealed off your property or private property where you do have the owners permission.
> 
> ...


man i love culvers.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

time said:


> We do know. They chased a guy on a motorcycle for 20 miles. I would hope that they could see if the motorcycle had a passenger. It did not. The cop was not looking for other suspects.
> 
> Your inserting a bunch of "what if's". There are no what if's.


And what if the motorcyclist was meeting someone down that road? as another poster proposed. Whatever the end result of who and what was involved the cops were securing the area and interested in who was there as part of their investigation and arrest. That is actually one of the reasons they film and photograph those who are around a crime scene - because the bad guys and their accomplices often return to the scene of the crime. dum de dum. Just the facts, ma'am.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

TripleD said:


> Was I in the wrong????????


I guess that depends on what you want to be remembered for.

Personally I'd rather be remembered for being friendly, courteous and cooperative with law enforcement instead of copping an attitude and being mulish and obstructive for no good reason.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Paumon said:


> I guess that depends on what you want to be remembered for.
> 
> Personally I'd rather be remembered for being friendly, courteous and cooperative with law enforcement instead of copping an attitude and being mulish and obstructive for no good reason.


your only obstructive if you interfere. or are truly guilty and refuse to cooperate event then we have the fifth amendment.

I like my cops like I like my doctors with a good bed side manner, bully me guess what picked the wrong one. show some decency perhaps.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

since I've only been glancing at this thread between various things at work, etc - I missed the use of the frequent use of a representation of words that are not allowed on HT. Then one of you use it to show it could be used to refer to the OP.

This is a warning I hope you all will pay attention to. Do not use it, and especially do not refer to another member in that manner, no matter how clever with the wording you think you are being.

Every post with that in it has been deleted. I debated a long time about using infractions for inappropriate language and insulting another member - but if I did that seems one of the posters may have become banned. I'd rather not do that.

So, I have chosen to post this public warning and hope they watch their postings - even in the heat of the moment of stating their beliefs.

Angie


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

My apologies to all.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> Nonsense. I never said that "any one who does not keel down to a LEO is "not good". That is your interpretation and it is faulty.
> 
> I clearly answered the question the OP posed with my opinion. The OP (according to his post) did not even know what was going on before he got on his high horse. The cop obviously let his stress (or maybe just his excitement) over rule his manners and procedure but co-operation would have been simple and sensible. Not everything in life is an affront to your honour and rights and certainly not worth the kind of conflict (and complete waste of time) that can result.


I thank you for your thoughts ,but I have to disagree about me being getting on my high horse! If it didnt come on the scanner about the mail boxes being torn down we wouldn't have gone back up the driveway.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> *If *it didnt come on the scanner about the mail boxes being torn down we wouldn't have gone back up the driveway.


*IF *you hadn't *approached* he wouldn't have asked for an ID.

"IF's" go both ways


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

The IF's of this thread are getting beyond silly.

If a frog had wings it would not bump it's bottom.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I too would just as well be remembered as a friendly dude. 
But it is the LEO's attitude that prevails-----you are assumed Guilty . . . . . .

At 6;30 pm (daylight) I was driving to a football game in another town.
I rounded a curve and coming at me was a BIG SUV cop car.
I watched in the mirror as he made a U turn.
My speed was just a tad under the speed limit.
He came up and really tailgated me (no more than a car length)
I went through a very small village . . A tad below the speed limit . . . .
He tailgated me for at least 5 miles.......in a very intimidating manner.....
Finally in the small town where the game was, he pulled off at a very full parking lot of a bar.

So what the devil was his "attitude" for intimidating me for that amount of time ??????

I am grateful he didn't stop me because I would have had a VERY hard time being **nice** to him........

He started this in counter "assuming me guilty" . . . .WHY . . . ???????????

The cops bring this negative attitude toward them, by their negative attitude toward us citizens.............

Pray tell, How can you be *friendly* with them when they are so very negative toward us . . . . . . .????????????????????????????


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

"Every nation honors it's live conformists and it's dead troublemakers." Mignon McLaughlin

I love that quote. :grin:


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

You did nothing wrong, in fact, this country needs about 30 million more like you. You were on your OWN PROPERTY you do not need to carry your government tags on your ear like some ---- cow. Officer was trespassing and had no right to set foot on your property, much less demand identification from you.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> Why to people jump to generalizations? I don't think anyone has said we should all jump to every request and surrender our rights. The comments have been that it is wise to use common sense, judge each situation on its merits, not antagonize a situation and pick your battles. It may feel macho and hembra at the time but you should ask yourself what it actually gains you.


I don't think we should EVER surrender our rights and it gains us everything to assert them at every opportunity. There's a battle going on for your rights, every time a citizen asserts his in the face of "authority" a blow is struck.

I commend the OP for his courage and patriotism.


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