# Flemish/NZ mix



## dunroven (Dec 6, 2004)

Okay, I haven't heard of this, but a person who bought some rabbits from me was told by a friend that Flemish and NZ won't breed. Anyone have any experience with this?


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## TerriA (Oct 14, 2004)

I haven't heard of this but here is one possibility of problems...

If the rabbit is too fat, it is VERY hard to breed.. and if the genetics tends more towards NZW type and they have been feeding it like a Flemish, then it very well could be too fat. 

How old is it? Too old and it would be harder to breed for the first time, too.

I am a bit confused by your question... Are you asking if a NZW can breed to a Flemish? I'd think if the doe was the Flemish and the buck NZW it is "possible" (but WHY???? I don't understand crossing these...) :shrug: 

Are you asking if a cross can be bred to a cross, then I would say yes. IF they are in proper condition, etc etc..

Terri


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## Pat Lamar (Jun 19, 2002)

There are still lots of people who will cross breed New Zealand Whites with Flemish Giants with the mistaken belief that this is how to "raise rabbits for meat." So, those crosses are still very common and which should answer your question. It could be that the person making that statement simply misunderstood, as in "Flemish and New Zealand *SHOULDN'T* be bred to each other" instead of "WON'T breed." Ahh, the power of the notorious grapevine, eh?

Pat Lamar
President
Professional Rabbit Meat Association
http://www.prma.org/
Chairperson, ARBA Commercial Department Committee


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

any rabbit can breed with any rabbit as long as one is male and one is female, some crosses SHOULDNT be done like crossing a NewZealand buck onto a Dwarf doe, as the kits would be too big and likely kill the doe in delivery but it still can happen. 

Flemish grow out and Mature too slow to be profitable in a Meat Production line, but yes they can breed with a NewZealand


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## dunroven (Dec 6, 2004)

No my question was can they physically breed and reproduce, and yes, it woud be nz buck, flemish doe. No Pat, the question wasn't should they breed, the gentleman was told that they weren't capable of crossing. I haven't crossed any of mine, but I have heard of people (or at least I thought I had), that had done this just because of as you said, raising meat rabbits, or, one time I heard of wanting to get the colors mixed, just for themselves, no other reason, not for show or anything, but we moved from that area and I lost touch with them. So it's just a question of physically are they able. Looks like I got that answer. I was told that when they breed this way, that the flemish (because of longer body style) can carry more babies than can the NZ. Again, I haven't tried it, but what's your opinion on this? I know the bone/meat ratio isn't as good as NZ, but that aside, say a person doesn't care about length of time to get the rabbit there, is this a truism or a "falsism?" LOL


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## Pat Lamar (Jun 19, 2002)

Yes, it is physically possible both ways... NZ buck to FL doe, and FL buck to NZ doe. The size difference isn't as dramatic as FL to ND, so there's no problem, there. It's actually arguable as to whether or not the kits would be too large, even in a situation like the FL to ND cross. Some claim that the kits simply "adjust" to the size provided within the female and are born "normal" sized as with any other breeding. However, with FL buck x ND doe, artificle insemination would be needed... the FL's weight, alone, would kill her!  

(I must be having a bad day... FL is French Lop!!! Sorry, folks... I meant FG.)

Now, I'll use myself as an example of the kits "adjusting" to the size of the female for birth: I'm 4'11" short and the father of my children was 6'3" tall. My firstborne, a girl, is the smallest of all my children at 4'9" short and she weighed 6 lbs. 10 oz. at birth. A year later, my son was born and weighed 6 lbs. 11 oz. at birth. Today, he is over 6' tall, even though there was only one ounce difference at birth. The height genetics kicked in after birth.

Pat Lamar


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## tbishop (Nov 24, 2004)

Pat! I didn't know you were a little person!! Good for you!!  

Tim B.


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## Pat Lamar (Jun 19, 2002)

How funny, Tim! I really don't think I had anything to do with how small I am, though, but thanks for the kudos, anyway, heheheh.  

Pat Lamar


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## doodlemom (Apr 4, 2006)

How the altex was created from flemish bucks to cal does & champagne d' argent does and down the line generations then recrossing using a NZ instead of a champagne d' argent as the first cross doe to get a terminal sire in the end or substituting a giant chinchilla instead of a flemish giant ( although the color would probably be wrong.) Any been there done thats?


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## doodlemom (Apr 4, 2006)

I just remembered substituting NZW has been done with the result of "less growthy fryers" I'm wondering about giant chinchilla intead of flemish giant and that's the path I'm gonna pursue anyway as I find flemish giants-wellll kinda ugly


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

in Goats if you breed a large breed buck to a Pygme you are probably asking for trouble, some pygmes that are NOT show quality may be able to handle it better than others but i lost a doe who was accedentally bred to a nubian buck, 

some kids are just born LARGE regardless of what mom or dad brought to the party, some are not, 
and most does are built right and can handle large kids or at least just need minimal help, 

i just dont know how you would be able to "help" a Rabbit deliver kits that were too big, 

in birds it doesnt matter if the male is HUGE and thefemale is small, the eggs will be the same size regardless and the chick makes up the differince later


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## doodlemom (Apr 4, 2006)

I gave up goats to go into rabbits. I only bite as much off as I can chew. I got a cute pigmy goat male from Catskills game farm as a novelty to my flock. He bred with a toggenburg doe (spelling?) much to my dismay, but the offspring looked pure toggenburg ( 2 kids) I never ate goat- only for milk. Had them disbudded , wormed, vaccinated and sold them at auction( probably for meat) Rabbits are a lot easier and enjoyable to me now that the unwanted brush is gone lol. I have no desire to go back to the livestock auction after I heard some foreigners slaughtered the goats in the parking lot for meat as was their custom-(maybe my goats?) I'm o.k with people eating goats but I didn't think of that fate for my babies I worked do hard on to to tame and disbud. Slaughtering in he parking lot is strictly forbidden. Rabbits are much easier for me. My grandmother was a pig farmer- hats off to her- she did it all start to finish.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

i only ment it as a comparison, yes butchering goats can be quite disturbing to some but haveing done alot of home butchering it doesnt bother me, its all the same once it no longer has a face just the size if differint lol


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## birdie_poo (May 10, 2002)

I have crossed them, and the temperment of the kits is affected. This may not be of concern to some, but if you want really gentle rabbits, it's best not to cross a Flemmish with anything else.

We used to raise the NZ for meat, then discovered the Flemmish and now raise them for meat. We use some of the hybrid, if you will, because they have a little faster growth rate, and are still large enough so 1 rabbit feeds the family.

What I have noticed, though, is the pure Flemmish kits are much more tollerant to handling than the mixed kits.


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## DazzleBunny (Dec 21, 2005)

I have a NZ doe bred to my FG buck right now. I dont expect any problems, as last time I bred her to my Checkered Giant buck with great results. The NZ/CG doe I kept back from the first litter is now 16 weeks old and 13 pounds. I expect the NZ/FGs to be larger, as the FGs grow so much faster than the CGs.
I will breed the cross does back to giants to see what I get,lol. I guess thats what happens when you have to much space on your hands! But of course, the freezer dont care what you put in it, and everyone seems to want one anyway.
Stephanie
www.freewebs.com/dazzlebunnyacres


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