# How can I remove the copper from the windings of and electric motor



## Ed K (Oct 24, 2003)

I have a few scrap electric motors lying around. The scrapyard will pay $14.50 per hundred pounds for motors but will pay $2.00 per pound for scrap copper.

How can I remove the copper from the windings myself to increase my earnings from salvaging these motors?

The only thing I could find on the internet was to cut off the loops on one end of the winding and pry the other end through the steel. Also it might help to burn the motors so the varnish insulation on the wires comes off. There was also a similar suggestion to bandsaw the motor in half and pry the looped copper ends out but this doesn't help since I don't have a bandsaw

I'm trying to encourage my boys (9 and 13) to recycle by splitting the money we earn when we go to the scrapyard. They're eager to earn cash so I'm not really worried if the process is labor intensive. 

Thanks


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## Herb (Jun 25, 2006)

You can strip the copper like you describe, but be warned that you may not get the higher clean #1 copper price. From personal experience they won't give #1 price if it has been burned. And they may not give you #1 price because of all of the varnish on the windings.
How much do the motors weigh?


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

at a rewind shop, winding loops are cut at one end with bolt cutters, a winch hook is attached at the opposite end of the cut loops and the entire loop is pulled out, one winding loop per pull. a fixture holds the housing against the winch pull. this is done after the housing has been "cooked" in an oven to soften the windings by removing the varnish and burning out the insulating cardboard.


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## Outlaw9 (Jan 9, 2006)

Yeh I cut on end of a loop with bolt cutters. Then use a big screwdriver or bar on the other end to pry em out. Around here burn is still sold as number one as long as you get all the insulation off


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## moopups (May 12, 2002)

Being a past metal re cycler, the way I did it was to cut off one end with what is known as a chop saw, an abrasive 14 inch circular blade device, flush to the end of the steel layers. Then the remaining units were put into a device (home made) that resembled a toilet seat, tapered to be smaller to the front, hinged to lift up and away for changing the unit to be salvaged. Height adjustment was made by inserts of different height fillers, aka dunnage.

The pulling device was an item that was in the shape of a crowbar, handle about 18 inches long, degrees of attack was about 100, the unit had to be bolted down to a table with more weight than you have strength. Copper bearing units of more than 8 inches diameter had to be burnt in order to remove such. Over 400 acre pasture, foggy mornings, it worked well.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Check the laws in your state, Washington state recently passed a law that the scrapyards can no longer accept burnt copper at al, several other states are the same, then too if a person has been convicted of certain offenses in the past 10 years they cannot sell to a scrap yard after July 22.... 

Anyhow I used an old coleman smoker unit BBQ, hole in bottom for vent, copper wire and motors of all types tossed in with a few chunks of firewood and some old motor oil and used a propane torch to get-r-going and like Mitch sez best to doit on foggy mornings or rainy days cause the smoke is pretty bad.

Dont ferget the copper on the stator as those little chunks add up after awhile even off the old drill motors and other small pieces you find in various junk piles, dumpsters, auctions and yardsales.

For wire folks are using homebuilt striping devices and everything under 14 gauge is now #2 or #3

If you want to get into the "money" then save the electronic parts and go after the PGM, gold, copper and silver.... with palladium being the most prevelant of the metals a person will refine out.... of course that means obtaining knowledge, and being willing to work with acids and protective gear.... but palladium is around $350 per ounce right now, gold $650 and platinum is pushing $1300... and Rhodium is around $6500...... it is not hard to make a couple grand per month just in the PGM [platinum group metals] from catyletic converters..... the new diesel motors have 5 grams [at least] of Platinum in each unit when new..... 31 plus grams per troy ounce... you do the math. and there are 3 PGM's in cats.

There are forums for metal recovery around and the books i bought to get started are around $330... total cost to get started the way the author sez is currently about $800 i you scrounge a few things for a return of about $2000 so if anyone is interested feel free to PM and i will get you started on the way to a part time business in scrap metal refinging [ i will give you the path to the author's books for you to decide]

Have an ordinary day!

William


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Ed,
You can't remove the copper from the motor. It's best just to send it to me (at your cost, of course) and I will dispose of it properly....  

Like some have said before, some places wont give you the #1 price if it is burnt. I've found that also, it just depends on where I take the scrap.

Here is a way I've found that doesn't put out a lot of smoke. 
Since we are out in the country we don't have any type of recycling so we shred or burn the paper trash. I have an old 275 gal oil tank that I cut in half and use for a "burn barrel". I have half of it covered with a "screen" and the other half of the opening is covered with a solid piece. When I burn trash I set the motor on the solid piece so that it gets no flame, but heats up and melts the plastics and any laquer that is on the wires. Then once it cools enough to handle it you just snip the wires and pull out from the other side. Once the cover is cooled down you take a putty knife and scrape the now solidified plastics etc off the cover and dispose of it. 
Hope that helps

Mike


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## moopups (May 12, 2002)

Burnt copper cleans up real easy, just put it into a cement mixer with sand. Get real shiney in about 10 minutes of rotating. Also a good way to clean a chain.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

moopups said:


> Burnt copper cleans up real easy, just put it into a cement mixer with sand. Get real shiney in about 10 minutes of rotating. Also a good way to clean a chain.



That's a great idea, now all I need is a cement mixer....


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## Ed K (Oct 24, 2003)

in a small motor (6" dia or less) I cut the loops using a chisel aimed from the center of the motor outwards towards the motor shell. I't hard to imagine having enough room inside there to work with a set of bolt cutters but It seems many of you do it so I guess I ought to try it. I don't have a chop saw either 

Thanks


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## Ed K (Oct 24, 2003)

Blu3duk said:


> total cost to get started the way the author sez is currently about $800 i you scrounge a few things for a return of about $2000



Blu,

Not sure if I understand what you said in this sentence can you please clarify?

Thanks


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

You can do like we do and use a screw driver and needle nose pliers to remove the plastic/fiber strips holding the wire in and then lay the motor on its side and pull the wire out.. For us since we do this all the time it only takes us 10 to 20 mins to do. But if it is your first time it will take an hour or so.. Like I said in an earlier post, you can heat it and snip one side of the loop, we use wire cutters and pull the wire out from the other side..

FYI we just got $6 per hundred for scrap steel/tin..not as good as the $8 per hundred we got a couple of months ago, but not bad either.
it wasn't quality scrap either, 3 washers and a bunch of electric motor cases...some exercise equipment etc. The next load should be better...


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Ed K said:


> Blu,
> 
> Not sure if I understand what you said in this sentence can you please clarify?
> 
> Thanks


My fingers type slower than i think sometimes.... what i was trying to say is for an investment of around $800 if you do some scrounging for used parts to build some of the tooling with like a homebuilt ball mill instead of buying a small commercial unit of the similar size which would set you back about $800 itself alone, a person can come out of the first month's recovery with about $2000.00 gross, and the net would of course increase in succeeding months..... processing about 8-12 cats [varies with age, size and type ..beads or combs]

Acids can be bought or made if you are of a mind to do so, it aint rocket science and the biggest factor for safety is using a fume hood through a water bath vented to the outside air if you are in a closed room.... common sense has to take presidence in anything a person does in the shop [we can rely on the red green show for comedic relief but we need to take care of ourselves]..... If it was not profitable the big boys would not be doing the recovery and being so secretive about it. 

Cats are not regualted for sale if you are not reusing them in a vehicle, they are not hazzardous waste until you tear them apart even [go figger] and then you can ship the catalyst after you recover the metals out to the bigger companies and they will recover a little more [cause no one gets it all] and pay you for your percentage you contract for and both of you smile cause you dont deal with the waste and they get some dollars to collect for them selves...... it becomes a win-win all the way to the bank type deal for those who are willing to set up a small recovery shop.

William


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## Ed K (Oct 24, 2003)

beowoulf90 said:


> You can do like we do and use a screw driver and needle nose pliers to remove the plastic/fiber strips holding the wire in and then lay the motor on its side and pull the wire out.. For us since we do this all the time it only takes us 10 to 20 mins to do. But if it is your first time it will take an hour or so.. Like I said in an earlier post, you can heat it and snip one side of the loop, we use wire cutters and pull the wire out from the other side..
> 
> FYI we just got $6 per hundred for scrap steel/tin..not as good as the $8 per hundred we got a couple of months ago, but not bad either.
> it wasn't quality scrap either, 3 washers and a bunch of electric motor cases...some exercise equipment etc. The next load should be better...


Beo,

You're right it did take me about an hour per motor and I kept thinking there had to be a better way. I thought about a tool like horse hoof trimmers to cut the copper against the steel of the housing but I guess your bolt cutters are better? do you aim the cutters toward the wall of the motor housing (perpendicular to the rotor direction) or straight down?(parallel to the rotor direction)


I've been taking the boys each week to the scrapyard. Last week we get $6.50 per 100# on shredder material. My oldest son (13) is willing to spend lots of time separating aluminum from steel or cleaning plastic off of either since he doesn't really associate a dollar value to his time. I like the scrap project for them because 

1) It shows that things that other people waste are worth money
2) It's easy to find a buyer without placing adds in the paper, answering calls or setting up meetings to show things to people (like selling stuff through adds) 
3) paycheck is cash in hand
4) It's work they can really do

A friend of mine used to tease me about taking in scrap. He said "If you make enough to pay for your gas your flat tires and tetnus shots you're doing OK" but I think we're doing better than that.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Ed K said:


> .......
> 
> A friend of mine used to tease me about taking in scrap. He said "If you make enough to pay for your gas your flat tires and tetnus shots you're doing OK" but I think we're doing better than that.


Folks who scrap out for a living are honest hard working folks, and most make better than anyone thinks, some do better than others and some get lucky once in awhile being asked to salvage a whole house or business out after an owner passes away or decides to leave the country and no one really wants any of the "junk" left behind.

Scraping out also teaches patients, for it takes awhile to get some weight of certain items up to make it profitable to haul in, so piles can tend to accumulate once in awhile.... or waiting for the price to rise enough to pay the fuel bill for certain loads...

keep after it! one persons junk is another pile of scrap dollars!

William


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Ed K,

The direction of the cut depends on the motor. Washer motors for the most part don't have a side wall around them, so we cut perpedicular. As for the other motors it depends on how they are built. You can also use a reciprocating saw to cut the wire. The cheap saw I got from Harbor Freight has more than paid for itsself, but you have to remember what kind of quality you are getting.

All I can say it find what works for you. 
Note: I was just informed that car batteries are bring $4.50 apiece in our area as of yesterday, thats better then the $1 each I got last year..


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## Ed K (Oct 24, 2003)

beowoulf90 said:


> Ed K,
> 
> The direction of the cut depends on the motor. Washer motors for the most part don't have a side wall around them, so we cut perpedicular. As for the other motors it depends on how they are built. You can also use a reciprocating saw to cut the wire. The cheap saw I got from Harbor Freight has more than paid for itsself, but you have to remember what kind of quality you are getting.
> 
> ...


Beo,

I'm still only getting $1.00 apiece for batteries. I'm happy with the other prices from the place I go to.

My crew and I just got our record load on Saturday. $154 for a mixed load of shredder steel, aluminum, cast aluminum and copper.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Ed K

How far is the next scrapyard that will buy your product? and how far is it to the one they haul into? cause out west here, I can haul locally and get one price, haul 70 miles and get a few cents more [usually making up for the fuel and time doing so] and if i want dealer prices i can haul any amount 180 miles to Spokane Washington and get what all the local fellas get.

If i want to just a little better then i could haul it to the coast to portland but it dont pay unless a person has a semi-load of prepped steel, or a barrel of copper.

One tyhing that may make more scrap available in the pacificanorthwest or even drive the price up a little more is that anyone convicted of certain offenses in the past 10 years will be barred from selling scrap and all persons delivering to a scrap yard are to have a ready identification that can be verified and so forth.... this is allegedly keep the tweekers from getting cash from stolen scrap and stop drug use..... which a lot of them collect scrap metal for the cash it provides and because once hopped up they tend to not sleep and need something to do [ergo opposite of the violent meth user portrayed by law enforcement and media to the public.... i have a few kinfolk who are user, have been users and at least one if not more are back in the crossbar hotel from it, and a least 3 have been in the state college/hotel for it].....

Anyhow after the 22nd of July I look for some prices to start going up as less gets brought in, however the scrap yards may charge a fee for processing the paperwork for the state and take that out of any increase [the little fella always gets the hurt from anything meant for protection of others]

As far as batteries go, dismantling them and cooking off the sulferic acid into a stronger acid for recovery of precious metals is one way to go, then smelt the lead into ingots for easier handling in bulk, lead pays by the pound and is way more than any one dollar in the battery, the sulfuric acid is used in some aqua regia formulas for metal recovery and making other things as well.... use a ceramic pot when boiliing sulferic acids, be outside, and if you use a pyrex glass bowl use a catch pan and sand over your hotplate, making sure your sand is void of blacks or iron particles [good mortar sand is the way to go] 

chemistry used to be part of everyones tool shop back in the day......

William


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## Ed K (Oct 24, 2003)

Blu3duk said:


> Ed K
> 
> How far is the next scrapyard that will buy your product? and how far is it to the one they haul into? cause out west here, I can haul locally and get one price, haul 70 miles and get a few cents more [usually making up for the fuel and time doing so] and if i want dealer prices i can haul any amount 180 miles to Spokane Washington and get what all the local fellas get.
> 
> ...


Blu,

I live near Pittsburgh so I could have my pick of a number of scrapyards probably the big ones in the area too. I'm kind of keen on the one I'm going to because the people are very nice there. At a bigger yard they kept knocking down my prices based on what they said was "dirty" material Aluminum door frames with internal pot metal corner brackets etc. At this place they give me #1 copper for copper with insulation burnt off. And full cast aluminum price for some small engine blocks with steel studs etc. 

We already have the no felony for 10 year thing in place here. I haven't resorted to stealing anything but sometimes it feels like I am because people are so wasteful and put so many valuable materials out at the curb. I've been able to fill my pickup with steel and aluminum just by cruising the local suburbs on garbage night. I used to pick up only super clean high value items like aluminum gutters and downspouts but since my boys are helping and don't mind spending the time to separate things a little more, I'm now picking up almost anything made of metal.

To tell you the truth, I'm a little fearful of chemical intensive processes and I think I'll let the batteries go without me doing any more prep work on them. I wasn't encountering many of them and didn't want to stockpile them until I could find a better buyer so I've been letting them go for a buck apiece.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Ed K said:


> ........
> To tell you the truth, I'm a little fearful of chemical intensive processes and I think I'll let the batteries go without me doing any more prep work on them. ....


I understand that, acids are just another part of the salvage arena, and once a person gets into the higher end of the salvage business then they already know where certain items can be gathered for a whole lot less.... the lead in the batteries is still worth more than a buck, but if you dont have use for the acid or have to dispose of it safely and that alone could cost a few dollars out of pocket, then it is not worth the effort to pare down that item for the components.

It is good that you get along great with the scrap yard you are dealing with, and perhaps because you are bringing in a constant supply you are reaping the higher end of the dollar scale for dealer prices.... and i know the bigger yards can be buggers to deal with, and i did not mean you or anyone else might fall under that felon BS like what is probably coming to a state near everyone else who aint got it yet.... federally funded.....

If it works for you then it aint broke and dont need fixed..... all ive been ttrying to show is there is a nice high end value in some scrap that is overlooked by just about everyone, and it is not as hard to get it as most people would think, it just aint easy either or everyone would be doing it.... many who are are retired from the industry of scrap or chemistry in some way shape or form who make the best of it first.


William


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## Ed K (Oct 24, 2003)

Blu3duk said:


> i did not mean you or anyone else might fall under that felon BS like what is probably coming to a state near everyone else who aint got it yet.... federally funded...../QUOTE]
> 
> Blu,
> 
> ...


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Ed K said:


> Blu3duk said:
> 
> 
> > .....
> ...


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Ed and anyone else thinking about higher dollar scrap recycling of the precious metals..... I have a book to recommend reading and using for recoving and refining Gold, Platinum and Silver..... it was written in 1940 for the the NON-chemists who were [are] dentists and jewelers by trade to recover their metal scrap and save sending it off to another refiner.....

C M Hoke Refining Precious Metal Wastes - 363 pages Action Mining has it for $90 plus shipping and you may be able to find a copy in some libraries, or get it through a library exchange. Some of the safety methods might need be updated some, but the people I have met on the Gold refining forum rely on it heavily if you want to look you have to register and even then the bots get through and post every so often.... if you want to see the process my friend in Florida has posted the entire process on his website in small movies [ok some are rather long] and he has made a professional DVD because he believes many people need to be doing this as a hobby and business. LazerSteves gold recovery pages are unique in that he put up the processes without fee, and still people purchase the complete DVD from him!

Anyhow I thought i would bump this up because I have found that the book is easy enough a mountain man can read it and follow the directions.... and the refining forum has so much information that a person could pretty much figure it out in a short time without any book, but the book by CM hoke is at least something you can hold in your hands and thumb back and forth if need be and follow the directions from recovery to melting a button of metal with a torch for your stash or sale.

If you got questions just ask.

William
Central Idaho mountains


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