# If SHTF, would old coins be worth anything?



## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

I have a box of old coins, nothing extremely valuable. I basically only keep them cause they belonged to my mother and some of them belonged to her mother. Probably the most valued coins in the box are the dollar coins that would fetch about 10 bucks the most, and there's not a whole lot of them. But if the SHTF would they come in handy for trading, much like gold might be? Or would they be worthless?


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## lilmommajnn (Aug 7, 2002)

I think long-term they would be. Isn't old Nazi money worth quite a bit? (NOT condoning Nazism...was just the first good example I thought of)


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

If they are silver coins (dimes, quarters, dollars), yes they are worth something for sure. I don't know the date, but silver coins minted prior to a certain date contain 90% silver and are sold not because of the coin they are, but as 90% silver.

I bet MightyBooBoo could 'splain it better.....


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Hard to say what they'll be worth, given the circumstances in a SHTF scenario. The value of anything is based soley on perception. I subscribe to the idea that in such a situation we'll likely revert to a barter/trade system. This doesn't necessarily eliminate a monetary system. But items such as food, ammo, etc. under certain circumstances may be more valuable than gold and silver. Who knows though, they may come in handy.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Oldcountryboy said:


> I have a box of old coins, nothing extremely valuable. I basically only keep them cause they belonged to my mother and some of them belonged to her mother. Probably the most valued coins in the box are the dollar coins that would fetch about 10 bucks the most, and there's not a whole lot of them. But if the SHTF would they come in handy for trading, much like gold might be? Or would they be worthless?


If they are silver dollars.... They are worth at least 15.00 a piece. If they in even good condition they are worth around 17.00 a piece. In a SHTF situation. They will have a value.... But like always it will depend how bad the other guy wants it.


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## hfwarner3 (Feb 19, 2008)

At the risk of sounding like an idiot, they are worth what someone else is willing to give you for them at the time you need to sell them. I think I said this before, but this is why I like silver American Eagles. They say right on them what they are and how much silver they have. There is no guessing. 

My concern with old coins that are partially silver is the "convincing factor". I have to convince the average person that it really has silver in it and then you have people who argue over how MUCH silver is in it. 

Think of it this way ... three guys are in the middle of nowhere. One guy has a goat he is selling. The second guy says, "Here, I will give you these 200 old coins that are 10% sivler." Now the first guy has to figure out how much the coins weight, divide by 10, etc. etc. Unless he knows the percentage and has a scale on him, it comes down to trusting the second guy. The third guy says, "I have 5 silver american eagle coins - 5 ounces of silver - for your goat." See how plain and simple that is. If I was the guy with the goat, I would choose the american eagle coins.

In gold, I would consider Kruggerands as well as American Eagles, but in silver, American Eagles are easy to come by, easy to explain, and easy to unload.


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

The Good Book says to put aside gold and silver. If they were your mothers and grandmothers you can bet they have a high content of silver. 
In the WTSHTF situation Paper money isn't going to be good for anything but burning for heat but I think anything that is gold or silver will be used to trade with. 
JMHO
Dennis


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

JGex said:


> If they are silver coins (dimes, quarters, dollars), yes they are worth something for sure. I don't know the date, but silver coins minted prior to a certain date contain 90% silver and are sold not because of the coin they are, but as 90% silver.
> 
> I bet MightyBooBoo could 'splain it better.....


The date 1964, some of us are so old that we remember.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

up to 1967 kennedy half dollars are 40% could also see some canadian and
mexican silver for trade.

people will quickly learn the value of gold silver and copper


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

The S- would not only have to hit, but bury the f- before I give you a dollar's worth of anything for a quarter.

I've never really understood the mentality that think because a coin is made of silver it'll be worth anymore post SHTF than it is now... and, if you're of the Gold-Is-Money persuasion, and that was the way things settled out, then your quarter would, at best, still be a quarter.'

That said, as PT Barnum said, there's one born every minute and I've got about 50 pounds of old coins I'll be looking to unload on you guys. I'm keeping the ammo cans they're stored in though.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

NoClue said:


> The S- would not only have to hit, but bury the f- before I give you a dollar's worth of anything for a quarter.


Well what is very obvious. You will not trade in any form of money in a SHTF situation. This may be shocking to you.... But silver has always had value.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

most metal, as well as most non-metallic substances/items/commodities always have value.

I'm not saying that any metal is worthless, just that 'value' doesn't make them money/currency any more than anything else of value. A metal economy is a barter economy, and bartering certainly has its place but of all the things a modern person needs to invest in right now, gold and silver are really close to the bottom of the list of useful items.

If everything were to totally collapse, sure, gold, silver, copper, etc could very well become currency again - eventually - but that will be generations down the road. Until then, it's just another commodity and treating it as anything else is unrealistic at best.


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

The problem with silver or gold in a SHTF situation is convincing the person to accept them as gold or silver. Most of us are unfamiliar with gold on a day-to-day basis, and won't be willing to take the word of the person with the "gold" that it is really something special. Pre-1964 silver coins, on the other hand, are something that I dealt with earlier in my life, and they still look like current coins but the dates are obvious and easily determined, so I might be willing to accept them at somewhat more than face value.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

edcopp said:


> The date 1964, some of us are so old that we remember.


I was born in '64... I don't really remember much from that year, but I will remember the date for silver coinage from now on!!


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

WisJim said:


> The problem with silver or gold in a SHTF situation is convincing the person to accept them as gold or silver. Most of us are unfamiliar with gold on a day-to-day basis, and won't be willing to take the word of the person with the "gold" that it is really something special. Pre-1964 silver coins, on the other hand, are something that I dealt with earlier in my life, and they still look like current coins but the dates are obvious and easily determined, so I might be willing to accept them at somewhat more than face value.


Well, I'm guessing some of you are thinking of a Mad Max type world when you say SHTF. I'm thinking more economic collapse with a depression. In the latter, it's my understanding is that pawn shops and metal/coin dealers will still pay spot price on coins for their silver content. Since the monetary system would be garbage, there is some likelihood that banks may also have to weigh and recognize the silver coins as silver. My thinking on the usefulness of coinage was not necessarily in person to person barter, but for things like paying property taxes.

Now if the system should ever break down to where the tax man isn't even a factor, all bets are off.


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## hfwarner3 (Feb 19, 2008)

I agree if you are saying that it depends on the situation and the parties involved. In a depression, if the dollar tanks then the silver and gold I have is a commodity that is holding the spending power of the money I traded in for the metal. Yes, I can sell it in lots of places but it is also easy to sell or trade with an individual. 

You don't need to know which year it is or which percentage or what it weights or anything like that. You just look at it and say "1 ounce silver" or "1/10 ounce gold". Since I purchase american eagle coins, most people have heard of them and it doesn't take more than 3 seconds to "get it" when you hold the coin in your hand, feel its weight, and read what it says. And that brings me to the SBTF (that's buries the fan) scenario where the entire U.S. economy as we know it collapses and paper money is worthless. Being able to trade your commodity coins (that's what bullion is) for goods is easier than trading gold or silver that has to be assayed before you can determine its worth.

But keep in mind - if I think we are in for the LOOOOONG haul and you come to me with a handful of gold to buy some of my stuff, I am going to tell you to go away. Gold will be worthless if I don't think I will be able to use it to purchase more food, water, fuel, etc.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

NoClue said:


> The S- would not only have to hit, but bury the f- before I give you a dollar's worth of anything for a quarter.
> 
> I've never really understood the mentality that think because a coin is made of silver it'll be worth anymore post SHTF than it is now... and, if you're of the Gold-Is-Money persuasion, and that was the way things settled out, then your quarter would, at best, still be a quarter.'
> 
> That said, as PT Barnum said, there's one born every minute and I've got about 50 pounds of old coins I'll be looking to unload on you guys. I'm keeping the ammo cans they're stored in though.


does not have to be worth more it does not even matter if it is worth less
the whole point is it still has worth a lot more worth than paper and promises

and it is easy to transport and exchange 

ill be taking gold and silver in exchange for my surplus of food unless you
want to deliver a cord of wood because i will take that also.

or perhaps a load of cow or chicken manure ill take that as well


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

I want dollars in a SHTF economic collapse.Yep, Joe Sixpack will never get it.Whatever.

I dont care if you lose your bank account or not.I suspect most of the anti real money crowd HAS no Bank account,eh?

Give me that SAFE dollar that is collapsing before your very own closed eyes.

What was it PT Barnum said?


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

BTW,there will never be a BLACK MARKET either because they CERTAINLY wouldnt deal in Gold and Silver.

Just because they ALWAYS have means nothing.Im sure they would prefer a worthless dollar.

Give me Dollars every time,That has REAL value...as COTTEN!


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Value is a perception, and the willingness of some one to give you something, that you think has value, for something they think has value.

I really think it's funny when something has to tell you what is supposed to have a value.
My guess they want to sell you something.

I guess I would rather have those ammo cans full of ammo, the shoe boxes filled with seeds, the shed filled with wood, the pantry filled with stuff I have stored.

P.S. I have a bunch of silver coins, how much are you paying in those "worthless" dollars?
P.S.S Anyone out there into Beenie Babies?


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Silver 1 ounce is 20 of those worthless dollars.6 months ago 12 of those same dollars bought an ounce.

One is going up in price,one is going down.

Of course we could just choose to ignore that.Unlike the rest of the WORLD that hasnt.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Why am I arguing this?????

Keep your dollars and have nothing a Bank will take that has enough value to pay your taxes,or your Dr for meds or hospital care.Im sure Pfizer will take your seeds.

They did in Argentina,oh..wait! They did NOT!They took your Gold though quite willingly.

Lets ignore that and live in a caveman fantasy instead of a FACTUAL REAL WORLD.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

Then sounds like I need to hang onto the silver dollars. What about the smaller coins? The mercury dimes, buffalo nickles, etc. etc. Would they come in handy for trade?


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Just because I don't bow down to the idol of gold doesn't mean I think the dollar is healthy. That would be a fool's argument. 

My original point, which I didn't do a very good job of expressing is this: When deciding whether or not to hang on to gold, silver, diamonds, or whatever as a SHTF currency, you've really got to ask yourself "If somebody came and offered me _______ for my bullets/guns/women/wheat/salt or whatever, would I make the trade?" 

If 'yes', then by all means, stock up on it. If the answer is 'no', then why do you think anybody else will either? Maybe you have a good answer to this question, and if so, then stock up, but the point is to ask yourself the question and think about the answer.

My retro answer is if the SHTF, I really don't care about your silver or gold. If I take your coins, it amounts to charitable act on my part. That said, it's conceivable that I might run out of something, be unable to manufacture a replacement and have to go looking for it - Whether I give a R'sA about silver or not, I know plenty of people who do, and for that contingency, I've got a month's gross salary in face value of Silver Eagles to keep me covered.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

NOTHING has value unless someone puts value on it. Gold has no value unless someone is willing to give you something else of value for it. Think about it. A silver dollar today might be worth more than face value to a collector, but what value does it have when the SHTF. 
Again, whatever value someone places on it. Your NOT going to say hey that worth $50 according to this coin book so I want $50 worth of merchandise.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

NoClue said:


> Just because I don't bow down to the idol of gold doesn't mean I think the dollar is healthy. That would be a fool's argument.
> 
> My original point, which I didn't do a very good job of expressing is this: When deciding whether or not to hang on to gold, silver, diamonds, or whatever as a SHTF currency, you've really got to ask yourself "If somebody came and offered me _______ for my bullets/guns/women/wheat/salt or whatever, would I make the trade?"
> 
> ...


Great I will gladly exchange them for face value just for you. :dance:
Since they only have that going for them. So when you coming to the house.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

In your dreams.

If things keep on the way they are, those Eagles will buy me a farm and I'm out of here.


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## gunsmithgirl (Sep 28, 2003)

> NOTHING has value unless someone puts value on it


 I agree. In a real SHTF scenario I would value many things more than a coin.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

gunsmithgirl said:


> I agree. In a real SHTF scenario I would value many things more than a coin.


Yes their will be quite a few things worth more than one coin. But what about 10 pounds of gold?


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

stanb999 said:


> Yes their will be quite a few things worth more than one coin. But what about 10 pounds of gold?


What about 10lbs of gold? What are you going to do with it? How much do you think you will get for it when the SHTF, Your 10lbs is worth about 155K today. 
Aside from jewlery and some dental work, what can you do with gold? When people are starving for food, gold isnt going to help. Now granted in the early stage it will have some value as the greedy offer you pennies on the dollar for your gold hoping the SHFT will not last long, but long term its not going to have any real value.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

most of us are not going to part with something we feel that we are going
to need for gold or silver that means that unless we have a surplus of something that our gold and silver is not going to buy it. but the concept
is some people ARE going to have a surpluss for me that will likely be honey

When you come to buy it of me how are you going to pay?

most everything else i am or can produce for my self

ill tell you what i can forsee me wanting post shtf

fuel gas/diesel
wood
red meat I get sick of chicken (but how long does that meat keep?)
fertaliser for garden

misc mechanical replacement parts?

so post shtf assuming you want my honey what are you going to trade for it?

you are a little bit right im not going to part with any of my canned food
bullets or fuel for any amount of silver or gold because i wont be able to replace them
easily and i have to think first of the well being of myself and family
but for supplies and skills that for me are replaceable like my honey
or mechanical/electrical skills the easiest way for you to pay me is
going to be in something that I hold (and most other people) to have value
IE gold, silver and copper of course this includes all other commodities like
wood, cow and chicken manure but at some stage you will run up against
what is convenient to carry with you and what the needs are of the person
you are trading with?


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Gary in ohio said:


> What about 10lbs of gold? What are you going to do with it? How much do you think you will get for it when the SHTF, Your 10lbs is worth about 155K today.
> Aside from jewlery and some dental work, what can you do with gold? When people are starving for food, gold isnt going to help. Now granted in the early stage it will have some value as the greedy offer you pennies on the dollar for your gold hoping the SHFT will not last long, but long term its not going to have any real value.


See post above.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Gary in ohio said:


> What about 10lbs of gold? What are you going to do with it? How much do you think you will get for it when the SHTF, Your 10lbs is worth about 155K today.
> Aside from jewlery and some dental work, what can you do with gold? When people are starving for food, gold isnt going to help. Now granted in the early stage it will have some value as the greedy offer you pennies on the dollar for your gold hoping the SHFT will not last long, but long term its not going to have any real value.


I'd bet I could get the local war lord or tyrant to come and kill you off and take all your stuff. So I can have a nice house to live in. That is the way it has always been.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

stanb999 said:


> I'd bet I could get the local war lord or tyrant to come and kill you off and take all your stuff. So I can have a nice house to live in. That is the way it has always been.


As soon as a local warlord rises to power, and I feel he has negative intentions in my direction, is when I see if my 400yd zero is still accurate. If it's a warlord and I know he's bad, he (or she.... woohoo female warlords!!!) won't get any sleep at night, with a .308 bullet zipping by him on a regular basis...

Quite a few times in the past, the general population has been unarmed... different bag of doritos dealing with armed people...


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## lonewolf (May 28, 2005)

Regarding firearms retailers and gunsmiths understanding the value of precious metals, I asked a couple local dealers and a friend of mine who is a gunsmith.

They all told me that right now they would accept precious metals due to there being a market to sell them in. None of them would seriously consider precious metals in an environment where there is no way to resupply their stores nor any standard of trade/exchange beyond barter. They also said that if things were so bad that things were pear shaped they wouldn't be trading their firearms or ammunition for any amount of money, though my gunsmith friend told me he might be willing to consider trading 100 pounds of 100% pure gold for one .22 short rimfire cartridge and laughed saying that would be if he were feeling charitable.

My smithing friend also pointed out that his repair services would also be a highly restricted item to trade for since he would be uncertain if his knowledge and skills would be used against him or any allies.

It all boils down to the matter if one wishes to trade spices, salt or metal as a medium of exchange, though all of it still requires haggling outside of a firm and widely accepted market exchange standard.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

Gary in ohio said:


> What about 10lbs of gold? What are you going to do with it? How much do you think you will get for it when the SHTF, *Your 10lbs is worth about 155K today. *



How did you calculate that number?


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## morrowsmowers (Jun 14, 2004)

Explorer said:


> How did you calculate that number?


As of close of business on 3/13, gold was at $995.10/oz. Take 16 times that amount and you get $15921.60 per pound of gold, or $159216.00 for all ten pounds.

Ken in Glassboro, NJ


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Actually there are 12 troy ounces per pound.

Metal is in Troy ounces.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

morrowsmowers said:


> As of close of business on 3/13, gold was at $995.10/oz. Take 16 times that amount and you get $15921.60 per pound of gold, or $159216.00 for all ten pounds.
> 
> Ken in Glassboro, NJ


Are you trying to tell me it went up 4 grand in 30 Min.? Oops 29.

Well just to let you know a troy OZ. = about 1.5 english OZ.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

stanb999 said:


> Are you trying to tell me it went up 4 grand in 30 Min.? Oops 29.
> 
> Well just to let you know a troy OZ. = about 1.5 english OZ.


Actually it is avoirdupois ounce.


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## tgmr05 (Aug 27, 2007)

I guess some people assume that when the SHTF or TEOTWAWKI that everybody will live like the stone age, except no one will want any baubles of any sort and the drive to better onesself and family will simply go away. Art will be worthless, along with precious stones, precious metals, any extravagant anything (air conditioning, hot water, clothes that feel good, you name the luxury). Childrens drawings/pictures will no longer be treasured, as they are completely 'worthless'. Somehow, the entire world will be satisfied living without any conveniences or luxuries, nor have any drive to do any better. The people who have not learned to 'get by' on their own will simply die off as they are no longer valuable to those who have, as the 'get by's are all completely self sufficient and need absolutely nothing anyone else has. There are also no individuals trying to better themselves by using a 'black market' type business to trade goods from one area to another. This is the ONLY way you can even remotely consider gold to have no value.

The reality is this: Today gold is near $1000.00 per ounce. If you came across 3 solid 1 oz. gold coins in whatever SHTF or TEOWAWKI scenario, would you simply leave them - or would you pick them up? For example: Katrina. If you were walking out of NO towards anywhere and saw those coins, yet you were dying of thirst and had recently ditched some of the personal items you brought from your home in NO - would you leave those coins since they are 'worthless' to you at the moment, or would you pick them up? 

Now, will you be able to trade your gold for anything with anyone? NO. But your cans of spam and tuna are not able to be traded for anything with anyone either - neither is US dollars or any currency the world over. 

Gold is a way to store wealth, always has been. It has been used as currency as well, but primarily through history is a store of wealth. One of the very few items that has never been worth nothing.


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## KCM (Sep 26, 2005)

tgmr05 said:


> Gold is a way to store wealth, always has been. It has been used as currency as well, but primarily through history is a store of wealth.


I do not see anyone exclaiming that gold is worthless, per se. What some people seem to be saying is that when the American $$ becomes worthless and all productivity basically comes to a screeching halt, then food might become more valuable than gold. This is very possible, and cannot be denied simply by claiming it won't happen. In fact, those who profess that their gold will help keep them fed are actually claiming that they would willingly trade their gold for food. So what's that really saying???? 

The problem with the "store of wealth" assertion is the vast majority of members of this forum are not wealthy. Many still owe on their mortgage, some also owe on their vehicle or other loan, and more than a few are probably way over their head in credit card debt. So basically, in my opinion, most people here are not really looking to store "wealth", because they basically do not have an overabundance of "wealth" to speak of beyond the basics of home, vehicle, and personal belongings. 
If I were to try to surmise what most people here are looking for, it would be to have a store of 'value' should the current American currency become worthless. There is a big difference between storing 'wealth' and storing 'value'.

An ounce of gold today might pay between 1 to 3 month mortgage for most people here. That was not the case 3 short years ago, and had not been the case for the previous 20 years before that. For the most part, the term "store of wealth" for gold and silver in the US has only been true during two distinct and relatively short periods of time over the past 175 years, and both of those times occurred within the past 30 years. (1978 though 1983, and mid-2005 to the present). 

Other than inheritance, I have tended to shy away from gold bullion because it is a rich man's playtoy. I am like a lot of other average people in that regard. I have bought a little bit of gold in my lifetime, mostly in jewerly and such, but I do not go out and deliberately purchase gold eagles or kruggarands just to 'hold onto in case of SHTF'. Because after researching into American history, and I mean serious 'research' instead of merely making unfounded false claims, it became crystal clear that gold basically increases in value for relatively short periods of time and then either remains stagnant or loses huge amounts of value. Silver too, but ounce for ounce we all know that gold is much more expensive and not so easily divided. You can break your gold down to 1/10 ounce, but silver can be broken down to .072 (dime) or .056 (war nickel). So, more silver can be bought for the 'buck' than gold, and silver can be easily divided down into much smaller increments.

Silver has been a hobby of mine for a very long time. However, I would never buy silver and then just let it sit on the shelf gathering dust. It doesn't do a thing for me to have it just sitting there hoping to continuously increase in value. Because like gold, silver does not forever increase in value. I consistantly have maintained that precious metals have relatively short bursts of increase, but then languishes for long periods of time at stagnant or decreased value.
That is why I never buy silver at spot, and also why I am always trying to sell as quickly as is possible. When I can take one ounce of silver and turn it into two ounces over the course of a few days to a few months by selling higher than I paid and then buying more with the profits, well, basically I am able to maintain value even when the price inevitably plummets.

I have heard some people exclaim that they bought several ounces of silver at $12 an ounce and now it is worth 150% of that. Meanwhile at about the same time, I also bought several ounces of silver at well less than $10 an ounce. The difference (besides paying less per ounce) is that through sell/buy transactions I have managed to nearly double those ounces without any increased spending on my part. While their silver has increased in value by 150%, I have doubled that 150% increase because I have twice as much silver now. And if that silver tumbles back down to $12, they will have no return on their investment while I will still have 200% return. So I am perfectly content to watch people go ahead and buy their golden eagles and their silver eagles at a premium over spot and then put them on their shelf to admire. Realistically though, the value of each could easily fall over time.

But what will the value of gold and silver be when the American $$ collapses? 
A easily discernable spot price for precious metals may be non-existant during a complete American $$ melt down, because it will have no easily recognizable currency to measure itself against. Just look at the comments here in this discussion, and it becomes clear that most people don't even know exactly which coins contain silver nor what actually constitutes an ounce of silver. So even during a US $$$ currency meltdown, how will anybody looking to conduct trade be able to easily determine an accurate and recognizable 'spot' value????

In all likelihood then, the value of precious metals will vary quite significantly within different regions of the country or state. It could conceivably even vary within your own county depending upon which side of town you life in. Each person will put his or her own value upon the metal when compared to other basic necessities of life. 

I firmly believe that during a complete American $$ breakdown, there are going to be a lot of people who will not give you their valuable food for your precious metals. No, they will not trade their food, their water, their fuel, their livestock, their tools, nor anything of value simply to have a bit of shiny metal. So in a 'sense', for people like that, the metals are indeed worth less than their basic necessities of life, and as such, could be considered 'worthless' to a degree. 

Some who put no value upon gold and silver will fare much better than those who hold precious their own gold and silver. It all depends upon what your own values are ...because as they say ...to each his own.

:soap:.........stepping down now

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## hfwarner3 (Feb 19, 2008)

I would like to add or expand on your comments just a little. The point I was trying to make is this - when the SHTF, things will be worth what the OWNER thinks they are worth and your item to trade (be it gold, silver, gasonline, salt, ammo, food, etc.) will only be worth what the OTHER GUY thinks it is worth.

If I only have 2 days of food left with no way to purchase more food at ANY price, that 2 days worth of food becomes PRICELESS. Your 10 pounds of gold will literally be worthless to me compared to my food. 

So yes, gold and silver coins store value (I bought a 1/10 ounce gold coin just yesterday because the price was right), but you still have to find someone whose basic needs are met before they are willing to take a commodity (precious metal) in exchange for a functional good (food, fuel, water, ammo, etc.).


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## tgmr05 (Aug 27, 2007)

Who knows specifically how much gold/silver is in their jewelry? The point is, it has 'value' or is a store of wealth. Not THE store of wealth, but moreso than something perishable as 'food'. Can food be more valuable? Sure, after any disaster, there are always those who take advantage of others by price gouging. Same thing as those who buy silver or gold for less than it is worth from some individual who cannot wait to get fair market value (taking advantage of an opportunity from others less fortunate). Some people look down on one, and promote the other, yet both are similar.

Would you give 10,000 for a case of water if that is the only price you can find locally? IF you have prepped, and are prepared, you can sit and wait. Gold/silver gives the advantage of sitting and waiting - if financial calamity hits (it also gives a little portability - would you rather carry one ounce of gold or 1000 dollars worth of tuna). No need to exchange those dollars for euros when hyperinflation or deflation hits, or whatever, just wait until things calm down and then cash out. IF you study and learn, you will notice that gold/silver can be used very prudently, and is not an investment -- rather a hedge or store of wealth. I would never personally 'invest' in gold/silver (it has never really been a way to create wealth -- with the rare exceptions mentioned historically -- rather to store it) - but I also would not want to be without any. I would also NEVER put all my eggs in one basket and only have gold/silver. 

Just about everyone has a piece of gold/silver either in jewelry or coins. It is not just for the 'wealthy'. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, it is always prudent/wise to follow what the wealthy do, even if only on a minute or small scale.


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## tgmr05 (Aug 27, 2007)

Oh, and all this talk of only having two days worth of food and no way to buy any - even your two days of food is worthless. You are dead anyway. It is definitely not priceless. LIFE becomes priceless, as you cannot keep yourself going no matter what.

IF, however, there are folks who are willing to barter or trade in other areas, you can use your two days worth of food to keep you going until you get to the other areas. Once there, though, you better have something else to trade.....Which brings us to stores of wealth. WHEN has gold/silver EVER been worth NOTHING to EVERYONE? That is the only time it could be worthless.

Otherwise, trading 5-10 pounds of gold for one days worth of food and help transporting you and whatever you both can bring to another area suddenly makes sense, no?


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

tgmr05 said:


> *IF you study and learn, *you will notice that gold/silver can be used very prudently, and is not an investment -- rather a hedge or store of wealth. *AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, it is always prudent/wise to follow what the wealthy do*, even if only on a minute or small scale.


TGMR,its a waste of time discussing this here.The anti REAL money crowd cant grasp what REAL money is.And dont grasp that you need MONEY to survive in our modern world.

In their eyes,taxes,bills,rent,medicine,fuel,all arent needed and dont exist in their world.And if they do you can pay for them with tuna fish and shovels.Thats their reality.Youre just beating your head against the wall trying to point it out.Its not their reality.

So be it,They make their choices and reap their rewards.

My reality is the dollar is tumbling and being eaten by inflation,and metal has doubled in price.1 is going up,one is going down.IF we are talking finances,(and they arent,they are talking TEOTWAWKI),you can see which one PROTECTS your wealth.

Many people are incapable have having a purely FINANCIAL discussion,ie dollars and wealth.People are incapable of grasping what we have HERE,NOW,is Argentina,NOT Mad Max.

But your points and advice are rock solid.Study and Learn,and do as the wealthy do if you want to preserve wealth.That really says it all,and is such a simple principle.

But you know what? We HAVE helped some,who were in a position to buy metal,protect their assets.Even if its only to a small degree that folks like us here can afford.


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## KCM (Sep 26, 2005)

tgmr05 said:


> Who knows specifically how much gold/silver is in their jewelry?


There are methods where the average person can come very close to determining how much gold is in their jewelry, as well as determining the approximate value thereof. You have to be able to weigh your jewelry in grams, and then determine what carot gold the jewelry is composed of. Furthermore, it is prudent to understand that usually the person who buys 'junk' gold jewelry expects to make a profit, as does the eventual smelter. 
Here is a helpful link for those who might be interesed in determining the metallic value of their own 'junk' jewelry:

http://www.sparklz.com/info/hearn.htm



tgmr05 said:


> The point is, it has 'value' or is a store of wealth. Not THE store of wealth, but moreso than something perishable as 'food'.


 I agree with you that gold and silver can store 'value'. The term "wealth" has an entirely different meaning than value.
Basically, I think we agree in principal, just have a different way of expressing it.



tgmr05 said:


> Can food be more valuable? Sure, after any disaster, there are always those who take advantage of others by price gouging. Same thing as those who buy silver or gold for less than it is worth from some individual who cannot wait to get fair market value (taking advantage of an opportunity from others less fortunate). Some people look down on one, and promote the other, yet both are similar.


The "opportunity cost" of selling or buying silver depends upon which side of the table you are on. "Opportunity cost" is when someone freely agrees to buy or sell an item for an agreed upon price when they could just as easily have bought or sold for another price (or not at all). You might compare it to WalMart and Target, where one store might be selling a container of frozen juice at $2.18 and the other store sells the exact same thing for $2.69. That is a difference of nearly 20% between the lower price and the higher price. When comparing a high of $20 silver sell at the same 20% ratio, it would equate to a low of $16 silver buy. Whether someone buys or sells at the more expensive or the least expensive is of their own free will. I make sure that all potential sellers of their silver knows full well what I am willing to pay for their silver coins, and also full well knows the spot price of silver. In making sure the potential seller has that information, it is not taking advantage when they decide of their own free will to sell at less than spot. Especially in a setting as at a coin show where there are other potential buyers who may pay more. 
Moreover, just as the store that sells the juice for $2.69 is under no obligation whatsoever to inform the customer that the same item is only $2.18 at the other store, neither is a silver dealer obligated to inform a customer that the table on the other side of the room will pay more than I do. Nobody forces the transaction, it was free choice knowing there were other opportunities. They could just as easily have walked over to the next table and offered their silver, or perhaps traded it for a hotdog and soda at the food booth, or quite simply saved it for another time and place.



tgmr05 said:


> Would you give 10,000 for a case of water if that is the only price you can find locally? IF you have prepped, and are prepared, you can sit and wait. Gold/silver gives the advantage of sitting and waiting - if financial calamity hits (it also gives a little portability - would you rather carry one ounce of gold or 1000 dollars worth of tuna).


Again, I agree. But if you had 10,000 and would die of thirst without that water, it would be foolish (and deadly) to not make the trade. Many people on very limited incomes make the same choices today between healthy food and necessary medicine. They forego one in order to obtain the other. Its all about "opportunity cost", ...meaning ''what does somebody give up in order to obtain something else''. We all do it, everyday. We even trade our time and skills for a paycheck in that we agree to give up some our time for money ...so that later we might do something else with the money.
And yet again, I continue to agree that gold and silver do have value. But as you have so clearly explained, so does that tuna. Just about everything in life has value, because life has value. Life, of course, is the greater value. 


tgmr05 said:


> IF you study and learn, you will notice that gold/silver can be used very prudently, and is not an investment -- rather a hedge or store of wealth. ......Just about everyone has a piece of gold/silver either in jewelry or coins. It is not just for the 'wealthy'. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, it is always prudent/wise to follow what the wealthy do, even if only on a minute or small scale.


Can you provide an example of what you mean when you say that? For example, what is it that the wealthy are doing right now that we should all take heed and BUY Silver and/or Gold? The price of these metals is not being driven by the wealthy, because the wealthy already have their wealth. Instead, the uncertainty over the American $$ and the corrosponding 'flight-to-safety' is a contributing factor. Another major factor is industrial consumption, especially with industry outstripping new supply for the past 25 years. Still another factor, although minor, is the 'short' market which seems to currently be helping prevent the price of silver from blowing upward through the roof.
But as for the wealthy, are they currently converting all their wealth into gold and silver? They may be increasing their precious metal portfolios a small percentage, but most of them are still investing in other markets. The way to earn wealth is to buy low and sell high. Manufacturers do it everyday, they buy their raw materials - add value through transformation -and then sell at a profit. Restaurants, supermarkets, newspapers, broadcast media, oil companies, even farmers all do the exact same thing. They purchase something and add value and then sell for a profit. 
I tend to look at silver as a business venture, far more so than as a store of 'value' or 'wealth'. To me, buying and selling is a way to make a little bit of profit and also to increase my own silver holding. And it is a lot of fun!

I gave up trying to understand why some other posters seem to such a cynical attitude toward everyone else who views gold a little bit differently. I believe that life has value far beyond another person's opinion of metal. Whatever attitude a person chooses is their own choice, and personally, I choose to be happy! 
​
I do like your style of discussion tgmr05. Your opinions are very interesting and your comments are easy to reply to. I look forward to enjoying continued posts from you.

  ​


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## KCM (Sep 26, 2005)

mightybooboo said:


> TGMR,its a waste of time discussing this here.The anti REAL money crowd cant grasp what REAL money is.And dont grasp that you need MONEY to survive in our modern world.
> 
> In their eyes,taxes,bills,rent,medicine,fuel,all arent needed and dont exist in their world.And if they do you can pay for them with tuna fish and shovels.Thats their reality.Youre just beating your head against the wall trying to point it out.Its not their reality.
> 
> So be it,They make their choices and reap their rewards.


I see no reason to put words into other people's mouths, because in reality, nobody here has been forcing any of those things. 
This is not a contest. Most here seem to agree that everybody places different values upon different things. Indeed, life is about more than maintaining so-called 'wealth' with gold or silver. As I said before in a previous post, there are many here who will prosper better without gold and silver than some of those with gold and silver. In comparison, many without wealth today are right now much more financially stable (and happier) than some of those with wealth.



mightybooboo said:


> My reality is the dollar is tumbling and being eaten by inflation,and metal has doubled in price.1 is going up,one is going down.IF we are talking finances,(and they arent,they are talking TEOTWAWKI),you can see which one PROTECTS your wealth.


Again, this is not a contest. Most people here are fully aware that the dollar is tumbling. Not everyone here has the desire to frantically jump themselves silly over the escalating prices for precious metals. While many here agree that gold and silver do have value, they also rightfully place substantial value upon other valuable things. Nothing wrong with that.



mightybooboo said:


> Many people are incapable have having a purely FINANCIAL discussion,ie dollars and wealth.People are incapable of grasping what we have HERE,NOW,is Argentina,NOT Mad Max.


Maybe its because many here do not care to have a purely financial discussion that is framed solely within parameters that you seem to want to force. Also, read the title of the thread. Somebody asked if silver coins will have value in a "SHTF" situation. We seem to be discussing the different perspectives that people place upon value and upon precious metals. While the opinions and comments are beginning to cover a broad spectrum of the issue, most people are actually discussing the specific issue in a kind civil manner.
Wouldn't it be far more beneficial and interesting for you to discuss other people's opinions and values in a friendly civil manner like everyone else is doing? It might help open it up to an increased understanding about the perceived future value of silver coins. It might also provide an increased understanding of future wealth over and above silver and gold. 



mightybooboo said:


> But your points and advice are rock solid.Study and Learn,and do as the wealthy do if you want to preserve wealth.That really says it all,and is such a simple principle.


There are a lot of interesting principles that have been discussed here. Everyone of them has merit in their own way. 



mightybooboo said:


> But you know what? We HAVE helped some,who were in a position to buy metal,protect their assets.Even if its only to a small degree that folks like us here can afford.


Besides comments and opinions, I have actually sold a lot of silver to a lot of people. Their purchases allows them opportunity to "protect their assets" with silver if they so desire. It is their choice. 
I have also bought a lot of silver from a lot of people. Those sales allows them an opportunity to do something else with their own profits if they so desire. It is their choice.
As I've said before, Some will fare far better without silver and gold than those with silver and gold. Silver coin might be beneficial to some if they know how to use it, and it might be detrimental to others who do not know how to use it.
So the point should be that people can help others in many different ways. Hopefully this discussion might continue to help others in ways we may not even realize. The key is to keep an open mind and understand that everyone places different value upon different things. 
And again, there is nothing wrong with that.

  ​
Nothing cynical here, 
because life is a choice and I choose to be happy! :happy:


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

stanb999 said:


> I'd bet I could get the local war lord or tyrant to come and kill you off and take all your stuff. So I can have a nice house to live in. That is the way it has always been.


Why would he do that, I have nothing, You have the gold, Wouldn't it be just as easy to come and take your GOLD? BTW, whats the war lord going to do with the gold?


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

tgmr05 said:


> For example: Katrina. If you were walking out of NO towards anywhere and saw those coins, yet you were dying of thirst and had recently ditched some of the personal items you brought from your home in NO - would you leave those coins since they are 'worthless' to you at the moment, or would you pick them up?


Poor example because you just need to get a few miles away and the coin are worth $1000. Now change the picture. Katrina takes out the entire US. There is nothing left Do you pick up the coins.



> Gold is a way to store wealth, always has been. It has been used as currency as well, but primarily through history is a store of wealth. One of the very few items that has never been worth nothing.


Gold had value because people put value on it. African tribes used beads, early man used rocks with holes in them. Those only had value because the people that used them put value on them. IF those tribes had spread out to the rest of the world we would having this conversation about beads and gold would just be come metal.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Gary in ohio said:


> African tribes used beads, early man used rocks with holes in them. Those only had value because the people that used them put value on them. IF those tribes had spread out to the rest of the world we would having this conversation about beads and gold would just be come metal.


But what is the reality NOW?


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

beads are just trinkets with no other purpose than they are pretty. gold, silver
would have become more prized than beads simply because they can be used
for other purposes and have been IE conductors,photography,tools and containers.

just because we have cheaper alternatives for wires and other conductors
like copper and aluminium does not mean that gold could not be used for
them.

gold was one of the first metals maybee the first metal worked by man
because it was easy to work with and found in its naturall/workable state in 
nature.

so beads and clam shells and all the other rare trinkets and stones that
have no other use than they are pretty are a poor comparison to
metals which have many usefull properties which have been recognised
for a very long time.

so is an item that can be easily melted and poured into moulds or forged into
tools does not rust is non poisonous does this item have value?
would i pick it up and trade for it when i am trying to keep all my needed
post shtf "machinery"running YES


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## KCM (Sep 26, 2005)

damoc said:


> gold was one of the first metals maybee the first metal worked by man
> because it was easy to work with and found in its naturall/workable state in
> nature.


That is probably true, because gold (and silver), as you have already mentioned, was found in its natural and workable state in nature. 
Possibly next on the list was copper. Interestingly, the 7 metals mentioned in the bible, (which points to the antiquity of these metals), are gold, silver, copper, iron, lead, mercury (quicksilver) and tin.


However, the foremost technologies in the ancient world pertained to the basics of having enough to eat. Agriculture, irrigation, and animal domestication were (and IMHO will be again) the primary methods for building and storing wealth. 
I believe that many people here have a lot more knowledge about how to utilize their land than they have knowledge about the manipulative 'manmade' value of precious metals. There is absolutely nothing valueless about owning land and having the knowledge to develop it to the point of having all the things necessary to provide life-sustaining food.

Silver and gold have historically been used as money, and therefore may continue to be advantageous in economic situations. But since they cannot sustain life without food, the land and the knowledge to extract it's potential remain as a valuable commodity to people.

One thing I'd like to point out; no matter how valuable gold and silver are (or become), ...in my opinion it makes no sense to purchase precious metals now with money that could be better used paying off your mortgage. Because if/when it comes down to it, you may lose a lot of value in the future if you have to trade your silver/gold to keep the creditors happy.

​


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

KCM said:


> That is probably true, because gold (and silver), as you have already mentioned, was found in its natural and workable state in nature.
> Possibly next on the list was copper. Interestingly, the 7 metals mentioned in the bible, (which points to the antiquity of these metals), are gold, silver, copper, iron, lead, mercury (quicksilver) and tin.
> 
> 
> ...


agree with you on all of this 

I have been defending gold and silver as a trade item but in fact i have little
of my own and mostly just silver for basic trade because what you said is
correct any cash surplus i have now is likely going into things like a new water tank
or alternate energy for water pumping more trees for fruit because ultimately
being in a position to build,produce or supply something needed will care for
you much better than anything you could store or hoard away.

the problem is very few people are in a position now to produce something
usefull that they could trade for what they need all present company on this
board are of course excluded the mere fact that you are here says that you
probably have more to offer that joe six pack whos profession has been
salesman and only other interests include basketball and football and his
big screen plasma TV.

but when joe six pack does wake up what will he be able to do with his money?buy some food? he has probably missed the boat for learning
valuable skills and agrarian development of some rural land so what will he
do?i think he will purchase gold and silver because that will be the talk on 
how to protect your money probably at a greatly inflated price in relation to 
what it is now.

My opinion you will know when tsftf when joe six pack starts buying gold
and cashing out his 401k IE the gold price will rise rapidly at the same time
as the stock market is rapidly falling prices on everything else will rapidly
rise.


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