# Ok, few questions about raising my calves



## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

I have a few questions I hope someone can help me out with. We have our two new calves in a small pen in the barn. They are around 2- 2 1/2 months old and I havent taped them but the seller said they were around 150 lbs. One brangus, one angus cross, both heifers. We have a bucket of calf starter in with them that they have just barely eaten any of in the first two days. They have hay and water as well. Both were wormed with ivermectin. They both look so skinny and their hip bones and spine are poking out I was told it was normal for them to look like this after being pulled off their momma and switched to hay/grain. Is this correct? 

Should I keep the calf starter in their all the time or just bring in some at certain times? 

After 48 hours in the pen, I will let them out tomorrow into a very small paddock area where they will have access to grass. Figured we would leave them in there another few days before letting them into the pasture. One of the calves is super friendly, like a big puppy really. We will not have any trouble coming up to that one in the pasture. The second calf is terrified of us. If it could bury its head in the dirt when we show up it would. Once we turn that one out, I dont think we will be able to get within 50 ft of it. Is there anything we can do about this? We will have to give this calf a ivermectin booster in 6 weeks or so, but I dont think it would let us get close to it. Weve tried hand feeding it grain, grass, hay. It just doesnt want anything to do with us. Should we just keep it penned up until it likes us or what?

The tame one has some white discharge coming from both eyes, neither eye looks inflamed, just the discharge. It also coughs a few timesin a row every 5-10 minutes. Both were supposedly given La-200 shots 5 days ago and a Nuflo shot two days ago. He said he gives all his calves he gets in the shots just in case. Is the cough and discharge a normal thing? And, if not, would those shots she got several days ago be taking care of it?

Im sure Ill have more questions, hopefully I dont wear out my welcome, lol. I sure appreciate the help.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Nathon, did you pick out these calves or did the rancher? Sorry just got to ask...While I'm doing chores I'll give your questions some thought...John


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Nathan, these calves sound in a dreadful state and the sooner you get them turned out on to grass the better. 

Calves often lose a bit of condition after being weaned but they shouldn't look like coat hangers either. Put them on to grass but still give them their calf meal, say in the morning. Just a little to start with and once they clean it up, increase the amount. You may find they don't want it and that's ok too but continue to give them a bit of hay and make sure they have clean water at all times.

No, the discharge and cough are not normal and are indicative of unthrify calves. As the previous owner has already filled them with all sorts of stuff there is no point in repeating it and, again, I think you will find an improvement once they are out in a paddock. Much of it has probably been caused by environment and insufficient or inadequate feed.

Don't worry about the shy one, it will more than likely come round in it's own good time. If you have the time, go and lie down in the middle of their paddock. This fascinates cattle and they just have to come up and find out why your doing this. The tame one will come, the other will follow. When your ready, quietly roll over, stand up and walk away. Walk through the paddock and ignore them, if there are weeds in there, spend some time removing them but still ignoring the calves. Once the shy calve works out that your no threat, she will quieten down but may never be completely happy about humans. And to this end, it's where you need a small set of yards with a race (chute) so that you can administer drench, drugs, deal with them if there are injuries etc.

Work on it, Rome wasn't built in a day and nobody is going to get snotty at your questions. 

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Chores are over....Nathan the calves don't sound well, sorry to hear about their condition. In the photos you posted they looked to be in average health. Frankly their is really no need for the rancher to be giving calves that age anti-biotics and anti inflammatories, unless they were ill from the get go. A calf in resonable health will always eat it's grains. First react to the tame one, squirt some LA200 directly into it's eyes am and pm for two days. Before you take my advice do more research on the subject, but that's just what I'd do. Go the a place call "Calf Notes" on the internet very good usable info there...If you need the link just let me know...Coughing at that frequency is never a good sign. Look up BRD (Bovine Respiratory Diesease) Sorry to be so gloom and doom, they will come around and just look at how much your learning.


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## Valmai (Sep 29, 2004)

Do you know if the seller give them access to any grain/meal? If not and they were taken straight from their dams when they came to you they may not know that the grain is edible. With the tame one if you can get her to suck your fingers slip a bit of grain into her mouth a few times until she gets used to it. A dribble of molasses should encourage her. the other one should copy her. What is the weather like? If it is/will be very cold and you dont think you could get the wild one back in I would be tempted to keep her inside for awhile. The condition you describe suggests to me they are having trouble adjusting to the weaning. I would suggest you look closely at the nutritional value of the meal you are giving them, as they do need to be feed very well to recover from their problems. Eye discharge and coughing are not normal, I cant suggest any treatment (im not familiar with diseases and medicines in the US) except to keep them warm, dry and as well feed as possible.


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## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

Well, they both look a little better today. They finally ate some of the calf starter last night and finished about half of the bucket we had out there. We let them out into the paddock today and they started immediately eating the grass. We've given the one with the cough a bottle of electrolyte water yesterday and a bottle of water today to make sure she's getting good fluids. She goes crazy for that bottle and practically jumps up and down when she sees it. The other one could care less. They did have acces to grain at the sellers and he said they ate it fine. The one still has the cough but it doesnt seem to be any worse. She still has a little of the white discharge from one eye but its not as bad as it was. If she still has the cough in the next few days Ill call a vet in to check her out. She also has a runny nose. We will also try and get her temperature taken today. I dont want to give them any more meds until everything the seller gave them has a chance to do its thing and work its way through their system. Unless of course they get worse then Ill call the vet. Both of them are up and moving around the pen. 

As for the weather, its in the 90's here.


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## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

Whats the best solution for flies? These poor things are being driven crazy by flies. They get all over their back and legs and appertly are biting because the calves are constantly trying to get them off. I put a sprinkle fly bait around the pen where they couldnt get into it but not sure thats going to work. Id hate to buy a product that doesnt work very good.


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## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

Searching on the internet, Ive come across several posts about using mint flavored mouthwash sprayed on the cows from a spray bottle is a good fly repellent. Anyone here tried that one?


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## copperhead46 (Jan 25, 2008)

Boy Nathan, it sounds like you bought some sale barn calves. They don't seem to be in very good health. Do you have a vet you can call ?? There is a shot you can give if it's not to far advanced for the cough. It sounds like she has a respiratory disease. If it goes on, she will always have a bad cough because her lungs are scarred. I don't know, but from the sound of it, you got some sick calve from a less that reputable dealer. It is never normal for a calf to cough and have a discharge from her eyes. As far as the flies, there isn't much you can do, a good fly dust sprinkled on the every day helps some, I've never tried the mouthwash but it might help. It would be a little pricey. It just gripes me to no end, for traders to sell sick calves to people when they know that they are selling a sick one. Please let us know how they get, but I really would call you vet and get some serious meds for them.


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## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

Thanks for the post. Ill call the feed store tomorrow and find a vet. 

I picked the brangus calf out that is having the problems now out of a group of 12 that he had, but when I did, she did not seem to be coughing or have the eye discharge. But, it was 4 days between when I saw them and he brought them out here. And, she showed up with the eye discharge, cough, and runny nose. The second calf was one he picked out as a replacement for the second calf I had picked which freaked out when he delivered it and ran through my electric fence, then through my barb wire fence and up the road. The second calf does not have a cough or the eye discharge. Other than being skinny and skiddish, she seems fine.

I will talk to a vet tomorrow. I was hoping the La-200 or the nuflor shot the seller said he gave them would take care of everything that popped up. Id hate for her to have a chronic cough the rest of her life though. 

The guy assured me over and over that they were healthy and I wouldnt have a problem with them. OF course, he knew these were our first and werent very knowledgable. I have read all that I could over the last few months in preparation. But, I trusted what the guy was telling me. "all calves look that skinny when they switch to feed", "its normal for their hips bones and spine to stick out like that", "they are perfectly healthy", the La-200 and nuflor shots I gave them will take care of anything that could pop up". "They all get runny noses and a cough this time of year due to the changing weather". 

I feel like an idiot. I hope we can get everything all cleared up with them. I know vets are expensive when weve taken our dogs and cats to them for anything, I can only imagine how much they charge for a house call to check out a cow.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Nathan, don't feel like an idiot, everybody has to start somewhere and we all have many learning curves - and what's more, we never stop learning. You would have been an idiot if you hadn't recognised something wasn't right and hadn't asked so full marks to you. You don't have the experience to recognise that this chap was giving you a load of verbal cobblers ie: nobody in their right mind pumps their calves full of LA200 to catch anything that "pops" up. The only things these calves should have had was a drench and any vaccinations that apply to your area. So look at it as something you have learnt and you won't fall into the same trap next time.

Yes, getting the vet out is an expensive business but in the longer term I suspect it will save you money. If he's good at his job he will sort your calves out as well as point you in the right direction as to their on-going maintenance. You may do dough on this pair of calves but it will help you be better prepared the next time. 

Keep us informed.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

The local vet is closed on wednesdays. Figures. The guy at the feed store and ontoehr person who has cows both said to buy a bottle of LA-200 and give it a shot. So, thats what we did. Had to stick the poor thing three times as the syringe we had was too small for the dosage for her weight. So, we'll see how that goes in the next few days.

The mint mouth wash spray works some what. When we first sprayed it on this morning, the flies stayed away. When we went out this eveing, there were flies, but probably half the amount they have been having. Got a can of the dust fly repellant at the feed store we put on this eveing so we'll see how much better that works. 

Thanks for everyones help. Im sure Ill have many more questions.


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## kscowboy (Apr 27, 2008)

Hang in there , transporting these little fellas in 90 degree heat and separating them is pretty stressful , not unusual to have them somewhat upset for some days after this shock and they can look pretty bad during the transition but bounce back real well. Best thing you can do is get em going on grass or if you don't have much get them some lower protein grassy hay till they get their rumens working smoothly again. sounds like you have enough meds in them now so hopefully they'll bounce back. keep em out of the barn as much as possible , tends to increase the risk of disease. Next time , buy them at about the 400 lb mark , they will be a lot more stable and off to a good start for you. and find a local farmer you can trust , not the sale barns , buying babies there you are gauranteed to have a lot of grief.


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## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

Thanks for the post. I believe you are right and next time will will start off with them being in the 300-400 pound range. If I could go back two weeks, that is what we would have done this time. But, lessons learned and I have these little guys to get going now. They have been staying in the barn a lot even though they have access to the paddock area. Tomorrow I will turn them loose into the pasture and close the stall they have been staying in. Unfortunately, its supposed to storm and rain for 5 days straight starting tomorrow. They will have the open rock floored area of the barn to get out of the rain though but doubt theyd want to lay down on it. As for the hay, we have given them a coastal grass mix hay for the last three days that was not very green. Today we brought in some very green alfalfa hay for them. They were eating the other hay pretty good, but the alfalfa is what the my wife brought home today. My pigs seem to like the alfalfa much better than the other stuff, we'll see on the calves.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Nathan, here's what I use. 8 ounces to one gallon water. Mix and spray out of a pump up garden sprayer....works for me. Glad to hear the calves are coming around...TJ
Permectrin II 10% Emulsifiable Insecticide 

(Anchor) Contains 10% Permethrin to kill flies, lice, mites, ticks (including ticks that carry Lyme disease), fleas, spiders, mosquitoes and cockroaches on horses, beef and dairy cattle, swine, sheep, poultry, dogs and their premises. Apply as a pour-on, spray, dip or on a back-rubber. Offers a 30 day residual effect. Premise spray: 8 oz makes 6.25 gals, 1 qt makes 25 gals. Animal use: 8 oz makes 50 gals, 1 qt makes 200 gals. Easily mixes with water or mineral oil. 5-day slaughter withdrawal for swine. Do not use on puppies under 3 months of age. 

A9-P4 Permectrin II 10% Emulsifiable Insecticide, 8 oz $5.95 
A9-P5 Permectrin II 10% Emulsifiable Insecticide, qt (3 lbs*) $14.95


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