# Preppers are "hatriots" says FBI



## Mrs. Jo (Jun 5, 2007)

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...errorists-list


âAn FBI Denver Joint Terrorism Task Force handout being distributed to Colorado military surplus store owners lists the purchase of popular preparedness items and firearms accessories as âsuspiciousâ and âpotential indicators of terrorist activities,ââ an exclusive report by Oath Keepers reveals.
Essentially, the government is conflating Americans who believe in being prepared for disruptions in normal circumstances with potential domestic enemies who bear scrutiny, and are recruiting those they patronize to spy and snitch on their customers. As potential terrorists. For such suspicious activities as buying storable food. And paying in legal tender.
This is not a new tactic. Oath Keepers themselves have been targets of a campaign to portray their organization and membership as âmilitia extremistsâ and haters, due in large part to the smear efforts by the Southern Poverty Law Center. It has been used against people who champion the Constitution and warn against the United Nations. And itâs not confined to the FBI, but is also used by the Department of Homeland Security and so-called âFusion Centersâ andâ¦


But the point is made. Support the regime and its regressive edicts or be suspected as a âhatriot.â
Which in turn, makes you suspect, someone the authorities must be âtipped offâ about.
And naturally, dangerous people on the âTerror Watch Listâ canât be allowed to have guns!
What kind of dangerous, racist, violent, extremist, terrorist hater would suggest otherwise? And if he does, we expect you to turn him in, Citizen. And while youâre at it, put yourself on report. Weâll figure out why after weâve had a chance to speak with your neighbors. Speaking of which, tell us about them...


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## Sam_Luna (Nov 16, 2008)

Ya know, when I was a kid they said the same thing about the Russians. We have become what we feared.


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## stormwalker (Oct 27, 2004)

Repeat after me- We lpve you Big Brother!


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

This is the bulletin that was handed out:


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Whats the old saying...do let it fall on deaf ears......:hrm:


I would suspect about 99 percent of military surplus store owners and sellers of military surplus fit 90 percent of that list.

Most surplus dealers do so to support thier own gear needs.


I would venture to say probably 85 percent or more of said store owners they are asking to do this are much much more hardcore about prepping and own more guns and mre`s than we could possibly hope to ever aquire and would imagine a good percentage have a distaste for agencies who put out these flyers already.


It`s actually funny and shows the lack of any real mentality on how to deal with actuall terrorism by handing these things out to military surplus owners in the first place.........


I mean honestly, it is hard to take any list like that with any amount of seriousness when it mentions water proof match containers specifically.


Can anyone name one thing bought from a mil surplus store that anyone has used in homegrown terrorism........not crazies from another country that smuggled the stuff in with them.....actuall US purchased mil surplus used by domestic terrorists ?


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## farmwoman59 (Aug 7, 2008)

So if I'm buying matches and paying cash they need to see my ID? Unfreaking believable...


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

farmwoman59 said:


> So if I'm buying matches and paying cash they need to see my ID? Unfreaking believable...


Do not stop by after work dirty and unshaven, then show up sunday all shaven in your nice duds to shop.....you might be considered suspicious.


I would have liked to see them to define bulk purchases a little better also...


What might be considered bulk to one person is completly different than another might see it.


While NORMALLY a person might buy a waterproof container for matches in lots of 2 or 4 , if they were a really good deal and I thought I could sell them on ebay to make money, I might buy them all.....if I was questioned I would tell them that was my intention......do you really think someone would tell them they were building a massive pipe bomb with them.

Like the small print states on the side text....while some of activities listed taken individually could be innocent, andmust be analized by professional law enforcement in the larger contex to see if they pose a threat.

Basically you will be investigated to see if you plan to do a no good deed.........and they will determine the disposition of said purchases themselves.

No matter the fine print of this.....it is the basic over all disposition of it that leaves one with a bad taste.


I can see the orientation of the document........but do people really need this document to recognize a manson type entering the store hopped up on meth asking for all the largest capacity mags they have and can they get more or higher capacity mags and takes every oppertunity to say he would kill them all if he could and heaven forbid asks for a *night flashlight *and not a day one.


The overall lack of definition and tone of this flyer is not directed at the manson types, but calls into question almost anyone.

While the intent of said flyer is good and I agree with te concept...it opens the door for almost anyone the store owner deems applicable to be investigated and scrutinized. 

Luckily I would trust most mil surplus store owners with having sound judgement in what is actually suspicious.....but I could see some people letting the overall tone of fear run wild this document promotes.

It just begs the question.....

Do we really need this flyer to recognize koo koo or is it to open the door to unchecked investigation.

IT is the overall tone and lack of clear definitions, not the concept of or idea of the document that is disturbing.


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## Cindy in NY (May 10, 2002)

Mrs. Jo - the link doesn't work.

I think that military surplus store owners are probably a better judge of who to be concerned about than the FBI! They would be cutting their own financial throat to turn in everyone who came in and bought MRE's and waterproof matches and didn't act quite right! What nonsense!!

What really upsets me about this is the amount of tax dollars that were used to coordinate this joint task force, develop this "document", distribute it, and then they will have to do followup and analysis. What a waste!


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

naturelover said:


> This is the bulletin that was handed out:


Boy, I can see where _that_ would cause an uproar!! 
Hatriots, indeed!


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

So you're fine with all this ErinP. 

Paying cash is a suspicious activity, giving a valid ID when paying cash, my husband has a missing finger would he be suspect? I would like to know from those who think it's no big deal, why it's no big deal.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Right before Deer season opens,heading North-every single vehicle in the traffic jam , contains one of these criminal looking folks. On the way home,they smell and look like one of these criminals.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2011)

My best friend has a missing finger. Am I a suspect because we drink beer together?


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## Cindy in NY (May 10, 2002)

zong said:


> My best friend has a missing finger. Am I a suspect because we drink beer together?


Yes - esp if someone sees you doing a pinky swear with him!


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

The American people, or rather, western society as a whole, needs to make a decision: Do they want total freedom, or do they want their government to play the role of "protector"?

The two are mutually exclusive.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

zong said:


> My best friend has a missing finger. Am I a suspect because we drink beer together?


Depends if it is an approved brand local or imported and which finger :teehee:


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## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

It's the turn your neighbors/customers aspect that bothers me. More and more we are seeing the Federal Governement encourage people to "turn in their neighbors" for very minor things. It make people suspicious of and in fear of their neighbor..forcing them to turn to the "government" for protection. 

THAT is what bothers me about this. However well intended it may have been (or not), it asks people to report other people for going about their normal daily routine. THAT scares me to no end. 

To those who aren't concerned about this - this doesn't bother you? well when your neighbor decides that he's ticked off at you beacuse your dog barked one too many times and he calls the FBI and makes statements about your weapons, stockpiles etc., and the FBI shows up in full tactical gear and tears up your place maybe you'll question this flyer a bit more..


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## sandc (Apr 26, 2010)

The local surplus store that I deal with has a nice selection of very pretty yound women working there. I mean very pretty. Wife says it is what has earned them my business..
All of which are into prepping and most likely the store has its own MAG going. I was talking to them about this as I feel fairly comfortable with them and have bought from them over a decade.

They have been having fun with it. So far every suspicious person they have called about has turned out to be law enforcement....


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

ErinP said:


> Boy, I can see where _that_ would cause an uproar!!
> Hatriots, indeed!


Why is that, the other bulletins issued previously didn't cause much of an uproar cept' for some brief internet chatter.

They have these same bulletins for farm stores, storage units, and a couple others that I'm forgeting right now.

The bulletins are all formated the same.

This is the one for farm stores.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/page?id=12992118


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## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

Wayne02 said:


> Why is that, the other bulletins issued previously didn't cause much of an uproar cept' for some brief internet chatter.
> 
> They have these same bulletins for farm stores, storage units, and a couple others that I'm forgeting right now.
> 
> ...


Maybe because they continue to put them out and people are beginning to get upset about it. Also it keeps getting more and more invasive...

I just bought 4 containers of liquid tide... what list does that get me put on? 3 cases of cans of fruit (yeah I know gotta learn to can) because they were on sale, does that now get me on a list too? 

Where does it stop? What happened to common sense? The devisive "us" vs "them" attitude is damaging and dangerous.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I live with in my means and I use the envelope bugeting method. So, I pay with cash for local bills. I avoid over draft fees, checking fees, Used to be the ID for purching was when a person used checks or cards. Cash did not need it. The first time I was requested ID for a cash event was at a Computer store. I left and went to another. I do not need stores sending junk or filling up my email.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

Now you all know what it is like to be quilty by association.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

sandc said:


> They have been having fun with it. So far every suspicious person they have called about has turned out to be law enforcement....


:rotfl::hysterical:


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Wayne, I was being facetious. I don't think this is particularly onerous. 



Bluesgal said:


> It's the turn your neighbors/customers aspect that bothers me. More and more we are seeing the Federal Governement encourage people to "turn in their neighbors" for very minor things.


If you actually believe this, you don't know your history very well. 
I suggest you start your research with the Alien and Sedition Acts and head forward. 



The United States has _always_ struggled to maintain the balance between personal freedom and safety of the society. 
And no, I don't see where this particular order is all that invasive, even if you _are_ a "prepper."


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Wayne02 said:


> *Why is that, the other bulletins issued previously didn't cause much of an uproar cept' for some brief internet chatter.*
> 
> They have these same bulletins for farm stores, storage units, and a couple others that I'm forgeting right now.
> 
> ...


Because the boneheads who are not prudent and can't keep their big mouths shut about their suvivalist activities and intentions and boasting all over internet about their huge stockpiles of weapons and survival supplies are the ones who are making a big issue about it. 

The above bulletin got issued several months ago and nobody would have paid any attention to it if Oathkeepers hadn't decided to "reveal an exclusive report" about it (see original post) and they made a mountain out of a molehill over it. Every radical survivalist group under the sun picked it up and ran with it, blew it all out of proportion and made it go viral all over internet without even knowing the full extent of what the bulletin said.

If you don't believe that then just copy and paste the first paragraph of the OP into a google search and hit enter. Then you can read and weep over the hundreds of survivalist websites and forums and blogs where people are blathering on yadda yadda yadda about the evil alphabet agencies that are persecuting them because of their stockpiles of weapons.

All they're doing is drawing even more attention to themselves and identifying themselves and their stockpiles of militia weapons, supplies and equipment to the evil alphabet agencies.

It reminds me of that animated movie called "Ice Age" where the militia-like survivalist dodo birds exterminated themselves over a single watermelon.


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

Yes, my husband could have a burned smell if he's done some welding on the weekend, coupled with his missing finger and the smudges on his face plus paying cash and having no clue that a bulletin like this had been issued would probably tell the person no on the ID because he was paying cash.

I don't see these types of things as giving me much more security and a lot more to shake my head at. It's stupid.


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## farmwoman59 (Aug 7, 2008)

shawnlee said:


> Do not stop by after work dirty and unshaven, then show up sunday all shaven in your nice duds to shop.....you might be considered suspicious.[\QUOTE]
> 
> Well, considering the fact that my username is farmWOMAN shall I pull I my long skirt and let them check my shaved legs??? And I don't wear makeup but I do wash my hair and take a bath daily. Wonder if that's enough to put me on or take me off "The List"?


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## farmwoman59 (Aug 7, 2008)

Oh and the tip of one of my fingers is a bit strange looking because 
I got it caught between two logs in a log splitter years ago. Yep, I bet I'm on somebody's list about something....


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Bluesgal said:


> To those who aren't concerned about this - this doesn't bother you? well when your neighbor decides that he's ticked off at you beacuse your dog barked one too many times and he calls the FBI and makes statements about your weapons, stockpiles etc., and the FBI shows up in full tactical gear and tears up your place maybe you'll question this flyer a bit more..


Don't boast to your neighbour about your weapons and stockpiles, etc. and then your neighbour won't have anything to make statements about.

People who can't keep their mouths shut about their weapons and stockpiles tend to make other people nervous about their own safety.


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## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

Paumon said:


> Don't boast to your neighbour about your weapons and stockpiles, etc. and then your neighbour won't have anything to make statements about.
> 
> People who can't keep their mouths shut about their weapons and stockpiles tend to make other people nervous about their own safety.


He doesn't have to have any FACTS.... but nah I'm not going there.. 

Must be nice to believe that nobody would ever make up something up...

but since you also brought it up and to stay on point..... #1 survival lesson... keep your mouth shut... but y'all ready know that...


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Bluesgal said:


> Maybe because they continue to put them out and people are beginning to get upset about it. Also it keeps getting more and more invasive...
> 
> I just bought 4 containers of liquid tide... what list does that get me put on? 3 cases of cans of fruit (yeah I know gotta learn to can) because they were on sale, does that now get me on a list too?
> 
> Where does it stop? What happened to common sense? The devisive "us" vs "them" attitude is damaging and dangerous.


Well, actually, 4 containers of liquid tide could be used to create a high-powered Ultraviolet Dye Laser with the capability to cut the steel beams off bridges from afar....but you'd need other stuff to go with it like radio frequency pumps and know-how..... and highly concentrated detergents are at the core of blister agents used by countries that still practice chemical weapon development.... perhaps I've said too much. Ah well, gott get back to the cloning lab....


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

Paumon said:


> Because the boneheads who are not prudent and can't keep their big mouths shut about their suvivalist activities and intentions and boasting all over internet about their huge stockpiles of weapons and survival supplies are the ones who are making a big issue about it.
> 
> The above bulletin got issued several months ago and nobody would have paid any attention to it if Oathkeepers hadn't decided to "reveal an exclusive report" about it (see original post) and they made a mountain out of a molehill over it. Every radical survivalist group under the sun picked it up and ran with it, blew it all out of proportion and made it go viral all over internet without even knowing the full extent of what the bulletin said.


Yeah, I know all that. My point is that I am tired of people (people I know personally) complaining about stuff like this yet they can't be bothered to get out from behind their computer and actually get involved. They ***** and moan and don't even bother voting (at the minimum), and I have little patience for them anymore.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I can't believe buying MRE's in bulk would make one suspicious. So it would be considered normal to drop through the local army surplus and pick up one for dinner?


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Interesting. Here in Canada the government keeps sending us information handbooks on emergency preparedness and we sure have learned a lot from them. Very thorough and well thought out. I imagine they would look upon us in a suspicious manner if we were trying to register a lot of guns.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

ErinP said:


> Wayne, I was being facetious. I don't think this is particularly onerous.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if preppers were just forced to sew a yellow Star of David on our lapels?


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Imho, if you are not an "Enemy of the State" in 2011, you are an enemy of the American Way. We have a temporary (hopefully resolved next year) occupation by the enemy.

A sour wish is that the Evil that has befallen us actually gets a little worse, especially on the supporters of that Evil, so we can cleanse our national psyche of political systems and beliefs that don't work in the real world.

I am an Enemy of the State, as defined by the true Enemies of the State. 

I wonder if this site has been forwarded to AttackWatch yet?


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

texican said:


> A sour wish is that the Evil that has befallen us actually gets a little worse, especially on the supporters of that Evil, *so we can cleanse our national psyche of political systems and beliefs that don't work in the real world.*


Unfortunately I don't think that is going to happen until people start thinking of people as persons instead of thinking of people as political entities with political agendas.

.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Paumon said:


> All they're doing is drawing even more attention to themselves and identifying themselves and their stockpiles of militia weapons, supplies and equipment to the evil alphabet agencies.
> 
> It reminds me of that animated movie called "Ice Age" where the militia-like survivalist dodo birds *exterminated themselves over a single watermelon*.


:thumb: I remember that. You're right, it's exactly like that. :hysterical:

.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

I think it is interesting that the FBI seems to think that people who build bombs blow their own fingers off. I suspect that anyone who builds bombs and is careless is dead, not missing a finger.

As for buying MRE's in bulk, all that proves is a complete lack of taste.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

texican said:


> Imho, if you are not an "Enemy of the State" in 2011, you are an enemy of the American Way. We have a temporary (hopefully resolved next year) occupation by the enemy.
> 
> A sour wish is that the Evil that has befallen us actually gets a little worse, especially on the supporters of that Evil, so we can cleanse our national psyche of political systems and beliefs that don't work in the real world.
> 
> ...


That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell......those who believe in America and are willing to stand, rather than fall are currently enemies of the state....sad but true.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

Bluesgal said:


> It's the turn your neighbors/customers aspect that bothers me. More and more we are seeing the Federal Governement encourage people to "turn in their neighbors" for very minor things. It make people suspicious of and in fear of their neighbor..forcing them to turn to the "government" for protection.


And there are quite a few more potential openings in addition to neighbors.
Water meter reader, electric meter reader, any service people you have out to the house, and probably the one with the most information on you and your place (if they desired) would be the ups/fedex/usps folks.

I generally keep a low profile around here as a mater of habit, but one day a couple years ago there was a knock on the door. It was my neighbor who was for the first time in 14 years on my property and at my door. He had traveled over here and when I opened the door he says, 'are you missing some gun powder?'

Seems fedex had miss delivered an order of powder and primers to his house. He found this very large box with all kinds of scary stickers all over it on his porch with my address on it. He had a bad back and could not lift the box so I went over there with my handtruck and pickup and retrieved it.

So much for keeping a low profile.


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## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

tinknal said:


> Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if preppers were just forced to sew a yellow Star of David on our lapels?


Finally, someone who "gets it".:thumb:


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

tinknal said:


> Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if preppers were just forced to sew a yellow Star of David on our lapels?


Oh, they're just going after the "crazy" ones. They're not after us. 

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out -- 
Because I was not a Socialist. 

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out -- 
Because I was not a Trade Unionist. 

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -- 
Because I was not a Jew. 

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me."

"Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it." George Santayana

"The only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history." Friedrich Hegel


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> The American people, or rather, western society as a whole, needs to make a decision: Do they want total freedom, or do they want their government to play the role of "protector"?
> 
> The two are mutually exclusive.


Most would choose security over freedom.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Win07_351 said:


> Most would choose security over freedom.


Sadly, I think you're right.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

ErinP said:


> Why is it people always think they're the victims rather than the crazy folks?
> "We're like the Jews!"
> 
> 
> ...


No, the exact opposite. *WE* do not blindly follow narcissistic, insane leaders.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Again, that's _completely_ subject to interpretation.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

ErinP said:


> Why is it people always think they're the victims rather than the crazy folks?
> 
> *Why do many people assume that OTHER people are crazy and they aren't?*:shrug:
> 
> ...


*It could be many things, but if people want to call other people crazy, they should be able to prove it. If the government wants to label preppers or survivalists crazy just because they believe in taking care of themself and not depending on a government to do that, then, if that's crazy I'll willingly be crazy.*:whistlin:


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I'm still wondering why people who think preppers are possibly crazy come to this forum to poke at us, unless it's just for fun.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I think one of the smartest moves is to just shut up about your plans except to a very few trusted people. I sure wish I could take back some of the information I have stupidly shared with people. Not only is it frustrating because so many do not see the point of emergency preparedness and mock those who do but I am sure that some of these people will remember us when the SHTF.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

We are Jewish preppers - so does that mean we have to wear two stars?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

emdeengee said:


> I think one of the smartest moves is to just shut up about your plans except to a very few trusted people. I sure wish I could take back some of the information I have stupidly shared with people. Not only is it frustrating because so many do not see the point of emergency preparedness and mock those who do but I am sure that some of these people will remember us when the SHTF.


You're right about not talking about prepping in general, but this forum and the made up member names, are for that to be done. The Mocking ones, I just don't get, unless this is an area where they can make comments about everything not being so bad, or we're crazy or such and know there is a large audience for their mocking.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I am glad that there is this board and all the great input and was not refering to this forum when I said it is smart to be quiet. I was refering to people in general. It is wise to sound people out before giving out much information. I too don't get the ones who can't or don't want to think about even the possibility of an emergency. Last time we had a black out our neighbours came over to ask if they could borrow a candle and some matches. Really? Not even a candle or matches?


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

I am wondering the same thing Angie, since the scuff-up it seems those so intent on causing enough problems to prompt someone to leave with their screechy behaviour have either NOT been back or are doing some bashing. And I'd like to know why as well. If you don't want to prep why not go away?


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## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

Wags said:


> We are Jewish preppers - so does that mean we have to wear two stars?


Yes, we get one for the front and one for back. eep:

(I am also a Jewish prepper).


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Yeah, everybody knows this "administration" doesn't keep track of dissent or encourage people to rat out those who oppose the One 
Well, except things like http://www.attackwatch.com/


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

So why can't you make that decision for yourself and leave the rest of us alone? If we are "in your opinion" over reacting why not just let the rest of us be? Why does it matter so much to those of you who come for no other reason than to make fun.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Since this thread is about FBI putting out list saying that people who do regular prepping activities, or purchase regular "being prepared" items - it in no way makes anyone para-military - just the government trying to make those that take care of themselves and not want to rely on others, look as badly as possible.

I would expect that aspect to be discussed here.


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