# Education in America



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Why is financial literacy completely overlooked? I teach my kids. But why is it not taught in schools? 






‘I can’t live on $709 a month’: Americans on social security push for its expansion | US social security | The Guardian


Calls for reform include increasing benefits in line with cost of living as employers provide fewer retirement pensions




amp.theguardian.com


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

We had a math class in the 8th or 9th grade that went through household finance, savings, checking account, and stuff. I can't recall how long it ran, but it was over 4 weeks long. I want to say 9 weeks.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

kinderfeld said:


> Why is financial literacy completely overlooked? I teach my kids. But why is it not taught in schools?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because not everything on Earth is the school's responsibility to teach. Some things belong to the parents. Remember, "parent" is also a verb.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Who has time to teach something like finances when "Critical Race Theory", "English Be Fo' Why tee", "Mathematics and It's Strong Ties To Racism", and "Having A Penis Doesn't Make Me A Boy" are far more important?


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

A lot of schools are using Dave Ramsey's curriculum. I've seen it. Looks pretty good.

I'd rather see schools teaching basic finance than women's studies/underwater basket weaving/CRT.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

I'm not sure why financial literacy isn't taught either. In my opinion it should be required class every year 1 thru 12.
It's a necessary skill right behind some social skills, math, reading and writing. Once you get on your own, knowing how to handle your money will make a huge difference in your quality of life.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> We had a math class in the 8th or 9th grade that went through household finance, savings, checking account, and stuff. I can't recall how long it ran, but it was over 4 weeks long. I want to say 9 weeks.


We had it as a component of Home Ec(onomics). When my mom was in grade school, only the girls had to take Home Ec, and the book-keeping was a main focus of the class since they were expected to learn to sew and cook at home. When i took it, it was required for both sexes, and it covered basic sewing, cooking, how to maintain the standard set of home appliances and how to run a budget. We did a week or two on basic HVAC, how to maintain a hot water heater etc. It really was a valuable class.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Fishindude said:


> I'm not sure why financial literacy isn't taught either. In my opinion it should be required class every year 1 thru 12.
> It's a necessary skill right behind some social skills, math, reading and writing. Once you get on your own, knowing how to handle your money will make a huge difference in your quality of life.


Exactly.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Pony said:


> A lot of schools are using Dave Ramsey's curriculum. I've seen it. Looks pretty good.
> 
> I'd rather see schools teaching basic finance than women's studies/underwater basket weaving/CRT.


I agree. Teach something useful vs well, the exact opposite. I would think teachers would push for teaching something that's not only useful, but not really controversial either. I don't think they'd find themselves having to defend teaching something this important.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> We had it as a component of Home Ec(onomics). When my mom was in grade school, only the girls had to take Home Ec, and the book-keeping was a main focus of the class since they were expected to learn to sew and cook at home. When i took it, it was required for both sexes, and it covered basic sewing, cooking, how to maintain the standard set of home appliances and how to run a budget. We did a week or two on basic HVAC, how to maintain a hot water heater etc. It really was a valuable class.


The home finance class I spoke of was in the math department

We had Home Ec too. To my knowledge only girls took it. A guy could, but I don't remember any.

We had a 4 year program for Shop. Some girls took that. It started very basic, and got advanced with specialties in masonry, gas engines, including cars and trucks, welding, plumbing, lots of stuff.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Because not everything on Earth is the school's responsibility to teach.


That's never stopped them. So, that can't be it.



SLFarmMI said:


> Some things belong to the parents.


In regards to their children's education, all of it does.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> We had it as a component of Home Ec(onomics). When my mom was in grade school, only the girls had to take Home Ec, and the book-keeping was a main focus of the class since they were expected to learn to sew and cook at home. When i took it, it was required for both sexes, and it covered basic sewing, cooking, how to maintain the standard set of home appliances and how to run a budget. We did a week or two on basic HVAC, how to maintain a hot water heater etc. It really was a valuable class.


When I was in school it was either Home Ec or shop. I took shop, but it was a girls only class and for some reason the teacher didn't trust us with power tools so we had to make our wooden key holders with hand tools. 

Apparently Home Ec was cooking a few dinners and making either a dress or a shirt/pants.

Honestly some sort of real world finance class would have been better than either of those. Definitely would have used it more.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

I studied home economics, but only because I was in a continuation school. Administration didn't have much hope of us ever becoming highly successful adults, let alone graduating high school, so they set us up with skills like doing your own taxes and budget management so we could at least get something useful out of school. None of the mainstream schools taught anything of the sort. I graduated from a school where approximately 50% of students ever finished high school


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

We had MOCE as a freshman and it was required for all. The first six week was all about refresher of math and then it was all about the checkbook home finance and then investments. Late in the year our last big assignment was to "buy" stocks and see how far we could could them before school was out. We learned what a mortgage was and how interest was mostly collected at the first half of the loan. 

It was my favorite class as I had real stocks before I ever graduated. I just wish I had picked Walmart or Microsoft instead of ATT. 

A class like that should be required curriculum. At the least, it will show when someone is trying to dupe you on a loan or investment. There would be a lot less Bernie Madoff victims in this world.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> We had MOCE as a freshman and it was required for all. The first six week was all about refresher of math and then it was all about the checkbook home finance and then investments. Late in the year our last big assignment was to "buy" stocks and see how far we could could them before school was out. We learned what a mortgage was and how interest was mostly collected at the first half of the loan.
> 
> It was my favorite class as I had real stocks before I ever graduated. I just wish I had picked Walmart or Microsoft instead of ATT.
> 
> A class like that should be required curriculum. At the least, it will show when someone is trying to dupe you on a loan or investment. There would be a lot less Bernie Madoff victims in this world.


Calculating interest, both simple and compound, is already part of the math curriculum and has been for decades. Balancing a checkbook, home finance and investments are the parents' responsibility to teach.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SLFarmMI said:


> Calculating interest, both simple and compound, is already part of the math curriculum and has been for decades. Balancing a checkbook, home finance and investments are the parents' responsibility to teach.


And I have with mine. 

But what about the parents that don't know how?

My father was good with money but would never buy anything on credit. Even a house. He would not use a bank either because of the great depression banks failing. And mention stocks and it was even worse because of how the stock market fell. 

How was he supposed to teach me these things? 

Might as well say it's the parents job to teach kids everything then. What do we even need teachers for?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Calculating interest, both simple and compound, is already part of the math curriculum and has been for decades. Balancing a checkbook, home finance and investments are the parents' responsibility to teach.


That’s your opinion. Which carries no more weight than anyone else’s here.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> And I have with mine.
> 
> But what about the parents that don't know how?
> 
> ...


What about the parents that don't know how? They use the many resources available to them via the public library and the internet, figure it out and then use the verb form of the word "parent" and teach their children. 

When my son started 4H, he needed to learn how to clip a goat. I didn't know so how was I supposed to teach him? I guess I could have pushed that job off on his school teachers as you seem to to want to do but I realized that not everything in the world falls to the schools to cover. So I went to the library, got books and educated myself so I could show him how to do it. I spoke to other people and had them show us. I figured it out and taught him which is my job as a parent. There are many things that are your job as a parent.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Mish said:


> Honestly some sort of real world finance class would have been better than either of those. Definitely would have used it more.



It's something everyone needs to know. That's why I find it odd that schools don't teach it.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> That’s your opinion. Which carries no more weight than anyone else’s here.


And I get to express my opinion whether you like it or not.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

kinderfeld said:


> It's something everyone needs to know. That's why I find it odd that schools don't teach it.


Everyone needs to know how to dress themselves. Is it odd that schools don't teach it?
Everyone needs to know how to use the toilet. Is it odd that schools don't teach it?
Everyone needs to know how to feed themselves. Is it odd that schools don't teach it?
There are many things that "everyone needs to know" that are not within the responsibility of the schools.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SLFarmMI said:


> What about the parents that don't know how? They use the many resources available to them via the public library and the internet, figure it out and then use the verb form of the word "parent" and teach their children.
> 
> When my son started 4H, he needed to learn how to clip a goat. I didn't know so how was I supposed to teach him? I guess I could have pushed that job off on his school teachers as you seem to to want to do but I realized that not everything in the world falls to the schools to cover. So I went to the library, got books and educated myself so I could show him how to do it. I spoke to other people and had them show us. I figured it out and taught him which is my job as a parent. There are many things that are your job as a parent.


A teachers job is to teach but they hope to inspire. 

Regardless of what your believe is on this subject I just wanted to thank that teacher for inspiring me to do something out of the norm of what my family at that time was doing.

You go ahead and teach what you are told is your job to teach. Get your paycheck and sleep well tonight. Don't ever think for a minute that these kids will one day have to look after you. Just do what you are told.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> Calculating interest, both simple and compound, is already part of the math curriculum and has been for decades. Balancing a checkbook, home finance and investments are the parents' responsibility to teach.


Those things are the parents' responsibility, but sex education should be left up to teachers? Why? Reproduction is covered in biology class.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> What about the parents that don't know how? They use the many resources available to them via the public library and the internet, figure it out and then use the verb form of the word "parent" and teach their children.
> 
> When my son started 4H, he needed to learn how to clip a goat. I didn't know so how was I supposed to teach him? I guess I could have pushed that job off on his school teachers as you seem to to want to do but I realized that not everything in the world falls to the schools to cover. So I went to the library, got books and educated myself so I could show him how to do it. I spoke to other people and had them show us. I figured it out and taught him which is my job as a parent. There are many things that are your job as a parent.


You're really comparing clipping a goat to financial literacy? Something, EVERYONE needs.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> Calculating interest, both simple and compound, is already part of the math curriculum and has been for decades. Balancing a checkbook, home finance and investments are the parents' responsibility to teach.


As an aside, at my school, boys and girls took Home Ec, and we also had a class called "Investments" which started with balancing a checkbook, figuring interest, all the way up through investing in the stock market, and as someone else said, we were given a certain amount of "money" to invest and we tracked our stocks and at the end of the semester, we checked to see how our stocks turned out.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Everyone needs to know how to dress themselves. Is it odd that schools don't teach it?
> Everyone needs to know how to use the toilet. Is it odd that schools don't teach it?
> Everyone needs to know how to feed themselves. Is it odd that schools don't teach it?
> There are many things that "everyone needs to know" that are not within the responsibility of the schools.


Why the hell can't you take part in this discussion without being so defensive? 
It's a legitimate question regarding a subject that relatively few in this country seem to grasp but everyone needs to know. In light of so many useless subjects taught, why is this beneficial one overlooked? If you don't know the answer, that's ok. You're not being graded.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> Balancing a checkbook, home finance and investments are the parents' responsibility to teach.


If parents can't be assumed to be able to vote without special assistance, why would you think they were capable of teaching their kids home finance and investments?


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I think all schools should have classes on personal finance management starting in grade school and getting more intense in high school and college. Little kids can learn how to handle their allowance - spending, saving , sharing. 

Unfortunately it is well known and documented that parents do not always teach what they should so it ends up being a blank space in the child's education. Sex education and health and hygiene are other examples where parents don't always get the job done or even properly. 

I also think that anyone entering the real world should be taught manners, etiquette and even how to hold a knife and fork. Schools have cut out home economics, woodshop and mechanics which is negligent on their part. It should be expanded not cut - include gardening, home repair etc. These are things that are definitely not available to be passed on to many children by parents who do not know these things at all. And definitely should be for both genders. There is not such thing as a cooking gene in women or a car mechanics gene in men. Although I know several men whose wives expected them to be aero space engineers and several women whose husbands expected them to be Cordon Bleu chefs.

Of course if you see a blank space in the education of children - or anyone - you know you can always fill in the gap. My husband held a picture hanging "class" at work as everyone admired the complex wall mounts he created in all the offices. One of the men said his wife was stunned to come home from work to find all the pictures that had been leaning against the walls for over a year hung up and perfectly spaced. He leaned how to measure top to bottom and side to side and including the size of the hook. 

I think that YouTube videos will be doing a lot of parenting in the future.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

emdeengee said:


> I think all schools should have classes on personal finance management starting in grade school and getting more intense in high school and college. Little kids can learn how to handle their allowance - spending, saving , sharing.
> 
> Unfortunately it is well known and documented that parents do not always teach what they should so it ends up being a blank space in the child's education. Sex education and health and hygiene are other examples where parents don't always get the job done or even properly.
> 
> ...


I agree, but with one caveat. Kids are never taught how to learn. They don't know what is optimal for learning. They don't know how to do self-directed learning. Many never learn that learning is supposed to be enjoyable, not drudgery. 

So yes, increase the number of subjects and make them more relevant. I'm in favor of year-round schools. Make self-directed learning part of the curriculum. Teachers are already paid a yearly salary for working about 2/3 of a year, so I see no reason to increase salaries. By having school all year, advanced students could use their senior year to earn college credits, reducing the cost of college.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> We had a math class in the 8th or 9th grade that went through household finance, savings, checking account, and stuff. I can't recall how long it ran, but it was over 4 weeks long. I want to say 9 weeks.


Home economics.
I had the same in junior high. Along with about 9 weeks of cooking/sewing. I think there was a brief shop class too.
I just don't think society puts enough emphasis on it. Go to school, get a job, invest in a 401k. Not much of a future there.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Seems a lot of people are asking about this.


https://www.financialeducatorscouncil.org/why-isnt-personal-finance-taught-in-school/


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

kinderfeld said:


> You're really comparing clipping a goat to financial literacy? Something, EVERYONE needs.


It was an example of what a parent should do when faced with having to pass on knowledge that they do not have to their children. Apparently the point went right over your head.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

kinderfeld said:


> Seems a lot of people are asking about this.
> 
> 
> https://www.financialeducatorscouncil.org/why-isnt-personal-finance-taught-in-school/


Read I few articles myself and it does seem to be a general consensus from most educators and colleges. 

Another side to the story touched on what I was talking about. The parents often don't know. Take parents that are second generation welfare. They were never taught so they can't teach it either. This effects the poor more adversely than the middle class and rich. Thereby increasing the poverty gap immensely each generation. 

So maybe it's not capitalism that is the culprit. Maybe it's the lack thereof and the not teaching of it formally.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> I agree, but with one caveat. Kids are never taught how to learn. They don't know what is optimal for learning. They don't know how to do self-directed learning. Many never learn that learning is supposed to be enjoyable, not drudgery.
> 
> So yes, increase the number of subjects and make them more relevant. I'm in favor of year-round schools. Make self-directed learning part of the curriculum. Teachers are already paid a yearly salary for working about 2/3 of a year, so I see no reason to increase salaries. By having school all year, advanced students could use their senior year to earn college credits, reducing the cost of college.


No, teachers are paid for the working days of the school year. The pay is divided into 12 paychecks.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> I agree, but with one caveat. Kids are never taught how to learn. They don't know what is optimal for learning. They don't know how to do self-directed learning. Many never learn that learning is supposed to be enjoyable, not drudgery.
> 
> So yes, increase the number of subjects and make them more relevant. I'm in favor of year-round schools. Make self-directed learning part of the curriculum. Teachers are already paid a yearly salary for working about 2/3 of a year, so I see no reason to increase salaries. By having school all year, advanced students could use their senior year to earn college credits, reducing the cost of college.


"Kids are never taught how to learn." That is false. All over this country, students are engaging in self-directed learning. 

"Teachers are already paid a yearly salary for working about 2/3 of a year..." Also false. Teachers' salaries are based on the number of teacher work days in the school calendar so, if there are 192 teacher work days on the calendar, the teacher gets paid based on that. Teachers are also usually paid on a delayed benefit system which means that we get less in our paychecks throughout the school year but that those paychecks are stretched out though the calendar year. 

"...so I see no reason to increase salaries." Do you work for free? Yet you expect teachers to do so.

"I'm in favor of year-round schools." The research does not support this. Are you also in favor of increasing your taxes to pay for increased salaries (because teachers and staff should not be working for free) and ensuring that all schools are air conditioned? Are you prepared to tank the tourism industry in your state since kids will be in school year round and most likely will not be taking extended vacations with their families?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

kinderfeld said:


> Why the hell can't you take part in this discussion without being so defensive?
> It's a legitimate question regarding a subject that relatively few in this country seem to grasp but everyone needs to know. In light of so many useless subjects taught, why is this beneficial one overlooked? If you don't know the answer, that's ok. You're not being graded.


You were provided a legitimate answer. As usual, if it doesn't bash teachers, you aren't interested. There are many things in this world that would be beneficial but they are not the responsibility of the schools to teach.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

whiterock said:


> No, teachers are paid for the working days of the school year. The pay is divided into 12 paychecks.


The average pay for a 1st year teacher is $48,776. Add in at least another $25k for benefits for a total of almost $75K per year. And you are telling me that is not for a full year? If you worked over the summer you could easily make another $15k for almost $90K. 

So why are teachers paid more than the average of all college graduates which is $50K for a full year?


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> It was an example of what a parent should do when faced with having to pass on knowledge that they do not have to their children.


Which has nothing to do with the original question. It's ok if you don't know. Neither do I. That's why I asked it to begin with.



SLFarmMI said:


> Apparently the point went right over your head.


I'll tell you one thing, the ability to carry on a civilized conversation without insulting people is definitely best left to parents.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> You were provided a legitimate answer. As usual, if it doesn't bash teachers, you aren't interested. There are many things in this world that would be beneficial but they are not the responsibility of the schools to teach.


Yes. You gave a legitimate answer to a question that nobody asked. A legitimate answer would address the original question. The question was, "why is this not taught?" Not, "what else is not taught?" Or, "who else can teach it?"


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Everyone needs to know how to dress themselves. Is it odd that schools don't teach it?
> Everyone needs to know how to use the toilet. Is it odd that schools don't teach it?
> Everyone needs to know how to feed themselves. Is it odd that schools don't teach it?
> There are many things that "everyone needs to know" that are not within the responsibility of the schools.


No, not odd at all, since they are taught prior to the age kids enter school.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

SLFarmMI said:


> You were provided a legitimate answer. As usual, if* it doesn't bash teachers*, you aren't interested. There are many things in this world that would be beneficial but they are not the responsibility of the schools to teach.


With all due respect, the original post was not to bash teachers. 
The original post asked about a question about school curriculum, which is not actually chosen by the teachers. A teacher can't just invent a subject and start teaching it. It's got to be a part of the common core. Defending the system instead of looking objectively at it doesn't really help with forward progress.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> What about the parents that don't know how? They use the many resources available to them via the public library and the internet, figure it out and then use the verb form of the word "parent" and teach their children.
> 
> When my son started 4H, he needed to learn how to clip a goat. I didn't know so how was I supposed to teach him? I guess I could have pushed that job off on his school teachers as you seem to to want to do but I realized that not everything in the world falls to the schools to cover. So I went to the library, got books and educated myself so I could show him how to do it. I spoke to other people and had them show us. I figured it out and taught him which is my job as a parent. There are many things that are your job as a parent.


That goat was a investment. It’s care was a investment. The idea that the goat is a investment should have been a primary part of the learning about goats. Any investment needs to be taken care of. Doing so and knowing how to balance the books on the goats care was a great opportunity for a real life lesson. The basic skills needed to take care of the goat is a point well made. Good time to teach how to learn about the learning process needed for a new investment. The fact of it being a goat is minor.

Good example of a variety of actually useful skills that are needed from schools, to apply to real life. Sad that so much of the current schooling misses out on these ideas.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Pony said:


> A lot of schools are using Dave Ramsey's curriculum. I've seen it. Looks pretty good.


My daughter used this for a course she took in a charter school. It was a great course.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

kinderfeld said:


> Why is financial literacy completely overlooked? I teach my kids. But why is it not taught in school….


It makes me wonder why parents of today have abdicated their duty and responsibility to educate their own children on their own initiative.

It’s almost as if the children are an object to possess like a nice house, a well bred dog or a new car, to be paraded around but never cultivated into intelligent young men and young ladies.

There was a time even within my lifetime when parents cared enough about their children to get their education started even before they entered school.

I guess parenting is beneath parents these days, it’s easier to just subcontract it out.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

georger said:


> It makes me wonder why parents of today have abdicated their duty and responsibility to educate their own children on their own initiative.
> 
> It’s almost as if the children are an object to possess like a nice house, a well bred dog or a new car, to be paraded around but never cultivated into intelligent young men and young ladies.
> 
> ...


your own kids were taught at home? They didn’t go to school?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Teaching should not be limited to home or schools.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

***


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> "Kids are never taught how to learn." That is false. All over this country, students are engaging in self-directed learning.
> 
> "Teachers are already paid a yearly salary for working about 2/3 of a year..." Also false. Teachers' salaries are based on the number of teacher work days in the school calendar so, if there are 192 teacher work days on the calendar, the teacher gets paid based on that. Teachers are also usually paid on a delayed benefit system which means that we get less in our paychecks throughout the school year but that those paychecks are stretched out though the calendar year.
> 
> ...


In my state teachers work 170 days per yer year.... less than half a year. They also get paid well over double the amount I ever earned per year. Don’t even cry about asking teachers to work for free! I just wish they would teach, that’s what we pay them for.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

kinderfeld said:


> Yes. You gave a legitimate answer to a question that nobody asked. A legitimate answer would address the original question. The question was, "why is this not taught?" Not, "what else is not taught?" Or, "who else can teach it?"


The question was answered. You just don't like the answer. Financial literacy isn't taught because it is one of those things that is the responsibility of the parents to teach their children. Just like gardening, how to do laundry, how to mow the grass, how to change a tire and a whole host of other things that people need to know.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> The question was answered. You just don't like the answer. Financial literacy isn't taught because it is one of those things that is the responsibility of the parents to teach their children. Just like gardening, how to do laundry, how to mow the grass, how to change a tire and a whole host of other things that people need to know.


Parents also think the responsibility of parents is to teach about sexuality and morality, ethics, etc. Bet you don’t want the schools to let go of that one though, huh?
It would seem to be more appropriate for the school to teach financial responsibility than how to feel about being white, too but I’m guessing you don’t agree with that either.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> Parents also think the responsibility of parents is to teach about sexuality and morality, ethics, etc. Bet you don’t want the schools to let go of that one though, huh?
> It would seem to be more appropriate for the school to teach financial responsibility than how to feel about being white, too but I’m guessing you don’t agree with that either.


Get back to me when you are ready to discuss facts and reality instead of the latest conservative boogeyman.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Get back to me when you are ready to discuss facts and reality instead of the latest conservative boogeyman.


Get back to me when you aren’t contemptuously dismissive as a means to cover the fact that you don’t have a good answer.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> Get back to me when you aren’t contemptuously dismissive as a means to cover the fact that you don’t have a good answer.


When you post nonsense like schools are "teaching kids how to feel about being white", it deserves to be dismissed.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> When you post nonsense like schools are "teaching kids how to feel about being white", it deserves to be dismissed.


You’re saying that this hasn’t happened?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The high school that I taught at had a Fundamentals of Math class. I think it’s available just about everywhere in Texas.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> your own kids were taught at home? They didn’t go to school?


My own kids as well as my mother’s kids were all taught at home prior to entering the school system and then the home efforts at education continued despite them entering the school system.

To our way of thinking it’s criminal to not putting the effort in educating our own children.

My mother made sure her three children knew basic reading, how to write our names and basics of numbers before entering kindergarten. And we as parents worked hard to help our own children with their efforts towards gaining knowledge.

We believe strongly in investing time, effort and knowledge in our children, as I’m sure many others also believe.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Too many parents don't know how to manage finances, live within a budget, calculate interest on a loan, etc, etc, etc. 

Too many children don't know that they need to know something about "real world mathematics" until they are in a lot of trouble financially.

When I was in high school, boys took home ec for the easy A. Many students took home ec as all of their elective classes. Girls had to take home ec, you couldn't get out of it even if you had to fix supper for the family after you got home from school. Girls were not allowed to take shop class until the year before I graduated.

In my 9th grade biology class we had a class garden. I took that class for the supposedly easy A but gardening was just a tiny part of the class. 

There were many things I wanted to learn which were not taught in school. But the local library was full of information and through most of my school years my education was learning what I wanted to learn, when I wanted to learn it. My mom and grandparents didn't have to learn it so they could teach me. I was my own teacher. 

If we can teach children how to learn on their own terms we have enabled them to succeed at what they choose to do with their life.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The high school that I taught at had a Fundamentals of Math class. I think it’s available just about everywhere in Texas.


I'm glad they still do. In my latest readings, 21 states require financial class as a required high school course. Up from 17 from 2018. Other counties, parishes in states that don't require it do in fact require it in that county. 

Seems the consensus is growing in the last few years on this topic. 

Do they still teach MOCE here?


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> The average pay for a 1st year teacher is $48,776. Add in at least another $25k for benefits for a total of almost $75K per year. And you are telling me that is not for a full year? If you worked over the summer you could easily make another $15k for almost $90K.
> 
> So why are teachers paid more than the average of all college graduates which is $50K for a full year?


That first year pay you mention is about what I made my last year. 32 years I taught. What benefits? The opportunity to buy my insurance from a group plan? Cheap enough for me but add a spouse and family and it was a huge cost. Remember, education is a state run thing. Each state sets pay, school length, curriculum . My first year I taught Ag on a 12 month contract. That was basically 2 months extra pay. I had a Master's degree so I was paid $600 a year for that. My take home was a bit over $600 a month. Didn't have insurance because I couldn't afford it that year. The next year I went to a better paying school and I could get insurance then.

Don't make broad assumptions about all teachers/schools/ curriculum. Fifty states do things fifty ways.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

whiterock said:


> That first year pay you mention is about what I made my last year. 32 years I taught. What benefits? The opportunity to buy my insurance from a group plan? Cheap enough for me but add a spouse and family and it was a huge cost. Remember, education is a state run thing. Each state sets pay, school length, curriculum . My first year I taught Ag on a 12 month contract. That was basically 2 months extra pay. I had a Master's degree so I was paid $600 a year for that. My take home was a bit over $600 a month. Didn't have insurance because I couldn't afford it that year. The next year I went to a better paying school and I could get insurance then.
> 
> Don't make broad assumptions about all teachers/schools/ curriculum. Fifty states do things fifty ways.


How is average an assumption?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

whiterock said:


> That first year pay you mention is about what I made my last year. 32 years I taught. What benefits? The opportunity to buy my insurance from a group plan? Cheap enough for me but add a spouse and family and it was a huge cost. Remember, education is a state run thing. Each state sets pay, school length, curriculum . My first year I taught Ag on a 12 month contract. That was basically 2 months extra pay. I had a Master's degree so I was paid $600 a year for that. My take home was a bit over $600 a month. Didn't have insurance because I couldn't afford it that year. The next year I went to a better paying school and I could get insurance then.
> 
> Don't make broad assumptions about all teachers/schools/ curriculum. Fifty states do things fifty ways.


Sorry you missed out on the retirement bennies most teachers get.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Lisa in WA said:


> You’re saying that this hasn’t happened?


It's all covered in Chapter 3- "Myths and Lies" from the Teacher's Union Handbook page 47.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

I get retirement. I'm limited on social security I can draw. I paid in to Teacher Retirement with the teaching pay. The other jobs and the money from cattle and cotton I paid SS. I'm eligible to draw on ex wife's SS, but even though it is more than I paid in, I still can't draw more than I'm drawing. I get Medicare paid and $28 in the bank from SS.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

georger said:


> My own kids as well as my mother’s kids were all taught at home prior to entering the school system and then the home efforts at education continued despite them entering the school system.
> 
> To our way of thinking it’s criminal to not putting the effort in educating our own children.
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone disagrees with that. It doesn't change the fact that we do indeed rely on schools to teach our children some things. They wouldn't be much good otherwise. I'm one of the people that would rather the school taught children finance instead of sex education, physical education, or critical race theory.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

todd_xxxx said:


> I'm one of the people that would rather the school taught children finance instead of sex education, physical education, or critical race theory.


The teachers union has now labeled you a "social radical" at their conference for adopting that position.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

We have read several threads over the last few years about what should be and what should not be taught in public schools. In one thread it is only the basics and the next they should be taught everything that they need to succeed in life. So confusing.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Sounds like different people "over the last few years" with different viewpoints.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

mreynolds said:


> Another side to the story touched on what I was talking about. The parents often don't know. Take parents that are second generation welfare. They were never taught so they can't teach it either. This effects the poor more adversely than the middle class and rich. Thereby increasing the poverty gap immensely each generation.


Lack of parental involvement, due to ignorance or laziness is the biggest problem, IMO.



mreynolds said:


> So maybe it's not capitalism that is the culprit. Maybe it's the lack thereof and the not teaching of it formally.


I think that would go a long way as well.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> With all due respect, the original post was not to bash teachers.
> The original post asked about a question about school curriculum, which is not actually chosen by the teachers. A teacher can't just invent a subject and start teaching it. It's got to be a part of the common core. Defending the system instead of looking objectively at it doesn't really help with forward progress.


Exactly.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

painterswife said:


> We have read several threads over the last few years about what should be and what should not be taught in public schools. In one thread it is only the basics and the next they should be taught everything that they need to succeed in life. So confusing.


Thank you for your input.
I'm sorry for your confusion. Let me know if I can help clear things up for you.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> We have read several threads over the last few years about what should be and what should not be taught in public schools. In one thread it is only the basics and the next they should be taught everything that they need to succeed in life. So confusing.


I am not confused. We have tried to help you with your confusion but you seem to only get more confused. 

I am sure most of us would love to help you, but we simply cannot figure out how to do so.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

todd_xxxx said:


> I don't think anyone disagrees with that. It doesn't change the fact that we do indeed rely on schools to teach our children some things. They wouldn't be much good otherwise. I'm one of the people that would rather the school taught children finance instead of sex education, physical education, or critical race theory.


My point exactly. Given all the things they "teach" that will do a kid no good whatsoever, why not teach something useful as well (or instead)? Twenty years from now, how many people are going to look back on that critical race theory class in any positive way and credit that for getting them where they are in life? Instead, why not throw something in there that they can use?


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

painterswife said:


> We have read several threads over the last few years about what should be and what should not be taught in public schools. In one thread it is only the basics and the next they should be taught everything that they need to succeed in life. So confusing.


I don't think you're confused at all. I think you're being deliberately obtuse and like to disagree with everything without ever giving your point of view.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Financial literacy isn't taught because it is one of those things that is the responsibility of the parents to teach their children.


Is this your opinion or DOE policy?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

kinderfeld said:


> Is this your opinion or DOE policy?


It's my opinion based on the never ending stream of "the schools should teach my kids (fill in the blank) because I don't want to".


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> It's my opinion based on the never ending stream of "the schools should teach my kids (fill in the blank) because I don't want to".


You have turned yourself into the poster child for those that take issue with public schooling.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> It's my opinion based on the never ending stream of "the schools should teach my kids (fill in the blank) because I don't want to".


So you don't know either.
Wonder how many parents were really demanding CRT.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> It's my opinion based on the never ending stream of "the schools should teach my kids (fill in the blank) because I don't want to".


Do you really think it's a matter of "because I don't want to" for most people? It seems to me that parents should have input into what their children are being taught, but it seems like you think that is an inconvenience. Parents pay your salary. If the majority agree that certain things should be taught, and that other things should not be taught, would you agree that decision is up to them, or do you think that teachers know best and they should decide what to teach peoples' children?


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

kinderfeld said:


> So you don't know either.
> Wonder how many parents were really demanding CRT.


I'm fairly confident it is a tiny minority of people.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

kinderfeld said:


> Wonder how many parents were really demanding CRT.


The answer to your question.



todd_xxxx said:


> teachers know best and they should decide what to teach peoples' children?


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

todd_xxxx said:


> ...teachers know best and they should decide what to teach peoples' children?


Scary thought. But, it does explain a lot.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

kinderfeld said:


> So you don't know either.
> Wonder how many parents were really demanding CRT.


You do realize that K-12 teachers aren't teaching CRT right?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> Do you really think it's a matter of "because I don't want to" for most people? It seems to me that parents should have input into what their children are being taught, but it seems like you think that is an inconvenience. Parents pay your salary. If the majority agree that certain things should be taught, and that other things should not be taught, would you agree that decision is up to them, or do you think that teachers know best and they should decide what to teach peoples' children?


You do realize that there is, in every state, a set of state curriculum standards, right? And that these standards get revised and that parents have plenty of opportunities to have input into those revisions, right? So, you can stop implying that parents don't have input.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

kinderfeld said:


> Why is financial literacy completely overlooked? I teach my kids. But why is it not taught in schools?


IMO the reason that things like financial literacy and critical thinking are overlooked is because public education is instead public indoctrination. Children are brought through the system to become dependent upon and servants of the state (bread and circuses). Individual liberties are talked about/celebrated until some poor unfortunate child attempts to put them into practice. They are then grabbed up by the administrative gestapo and run through the meat grinder. I have one child dead and it was because of abuse while in the public education system. When he was very young he asked a teacher why it was that students had to respect teachers but students had to earn the respect of teachers.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> You do realize that K-12 teachers aren't teaching CRT right?


They’re calling it something else, but the hokum that the Teachers’ Unions are arguing and launching lawsuits in order to maintain the “right” to teach is absolutely CRT. They aren’t demanding to teach the academic theory of CRT, but they are demanding to be allowed to teach the ideological product of it. Calling it something else doesn’t change what it is.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> You have turned yourself into the poster child for those that take issue with public schooling.


I realize that you would prefer that teachers just sit quietly while you post your never ending barrage of lies, half truths and misinformation but that's too bad.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> I realize that you would prefer that teachers just sit quietly while you post your never ending barrage of lies, half truths and misinformation but that's too bad.


Not quite. 

As you can read, but obviously not understand, I and everyone else on here would prefer that teachers act like service providers, and provide the service parents expect.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

HDRider said:


> Not quite.
> 
> As you can read, but obviously not understand, I and everyone else on here would prefer that teachers act like service providers, and provide the service parents expect.


Amen to that!

Teach the children the three R's and lay off indoctrinating them in the progressive liberal, America/family hating communist manifesto.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The parents can't agree on what the service they expect is. This thread illustrates that.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Not quite.
> 
> As you can read, but obviously not understand, I and everyone else on here would prefer that teachers act like service providers, and provide the service parents expect.


Not quite. It is obvious from your posts on the subject of education that you would prefer that teachers be treated like serfs.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> The parents can't agree on what the service they expect is. This thread illustrates that.


That is a lie


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> Not quite. It is obvious from your posts on the subject of education that you would prefer that teachers be treated like serfs.


You seem to have an inferiority complex.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Tom Horn said:


> Amen to that!
> 
> Teach the children the three R's and lay off indoctrinating them in the progressive liberal, America/family hating communist manifesto.


The delusions that you have about education are not reality. The "indoctrinating them in the progressive liberal, America/family hating communist (sic) manifesto" is not happening.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> You seem to have an inferiority complex.


You seem to have a problem with addressing a topic without attempting to attack the poster. You also have a serious problem with reality vs delusion.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> The delusions that you have about education are not reality. The "indoctrinating them in the progressive liberal, America/family hating communist (sic) manifesto" is not happening.


It is out there for everyone to see. Why do you insult everyone by denying it? It removes any shred of credibility you want to claim.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I


SLFarmMI said:


> have a serious problem with


your


SLFarmMI said:


> reality


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

painterswife said:


> The parents can't agree on what the service they expect is. This thread illustrates that.


It appears as though you are still confused. There are a few basic life skills that everyone needs to succeed. None of them involve any social ideology.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

kinderfeld said:


> It appears as though you are still confused. There are a few basic life skills that everyone needs to succeed. None of the involve any social ideology.


It appears as though you are the one who is confused. Yes, there are many basic life skills that everyone needs to succeed. And many of those are the parents' job to teach. That point seems to elude you.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> You do realize that there is, in every state, a set of state curriculum standards, right? And that these standards get revised and that parents have plenty of opportunities to have input into those revisions, right? So, you can stop implying that parents don't have input.


Firstly, I didn't imply that. Secondly, you didn't answer my questions.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> It appears as though you are the one who is confused.


Not in the least. We just aren't on the same page. 



SLFarmMI said:


> Yes, there are many basic life skills that everyone needs to succeed. And many of those are the parents' job to teach.


I don't believe ANYTHING is or should be left completely up to the teachers. Hell, some kids graduate functionally illiterate. A failure of the school? Yes. But it's an even bigger parenting failure. Ultimately, it's ALL up to the parents. But, you get some teachers resistant to that idea as well. Question them too much, they feel as though the parent is over stepping a nonexistent boundary.



SLFarmMI said:


> That point seems to elude you.


Not in the least. The only thing that eludes me where schools are concerned is trust.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

todd_xxxx said:


> Firstly, I didn't imply that. *Secondly, you didn't answer my questions*.


A common occurrence.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

SLFarmMI said:


> The delusions that you have about education are not reality. The "indoctrinating them in the progressive liberal, America/family hating communist (sic) manifesto" is not happening.


I call BS



> Many people have long suspected that governments sometimes attempt to indoctrinate their people to increase the government’s own power and influence. Unfortunately, ambitious governments will not stop at merely controlling what their people can do; they must control their minds.
> 
> Indoctrination happens through many channels—entertainment, speeches, and censorship––but its main instrument is the school system. Teachers have a captive audience of malleable young minds for several years. They may not have figured out how to make students smart and productive, but they can at least make them submissive and obedient.
> 
> ...





> How Public Schools Indoctrinate Kids Without Almost Anyone Noticing





> *The School System*
> 
> Why are you punished more severely for being 5 minutes late in school that for receiving a D?
> 
> ...


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

If it is the parents job to teach their children how to read, write and do enough mathematics to balance a checkbook, what is left for teachers to do? We should all be homeschooling our kids and the state should give those parents a break on property taxes since schools won't be needed until the high school years.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Tom Horn said:


> I call BS


I agree that our schools are pushing a liberal agenda more often than not, but I think many, if not most, of the things on that list are silly. There is no point going through it line by line, but I'll give a couple of examples of the many things I don't agree with on that list. You go to lunch at a set time because it would be pretty disruptive to classes if anyone just got up and said "I'm going to lunch now" any time they wanted to. "Why are you penalized for going beyond the classroom for information? " I'm never seen or heard of that happening. Everyone goes "beyond the classroom" for information. When I went to school, it was the library, now it is the internet, but it's not only allowed, it's expected. "Why do they never ever tell you that you can be more than a policeman or civil servant?" Silly, and, as far as I know, or have seen, completely untrue. "Why do you fear the principles office?" is like asking why you fear your boss's office. You don't, unless you know you screwed up and someone is going to confront you about it. And on and on...


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> If it is the parents job to teach their children how to read, write and do enough mathematics to balance a checkbook, what is left for teachers to do? We should all be homeschooling our kids and the state should *give those parents a break on property taxes *since schools won't be needed until the high school years.


LOL!!! Now you've done it.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

todd_xxxx said:


> I agree that our schools are pushing a liberal agenda more often than not, but I think many, if not most, of the things on that list are silly. There is no point going through it line by line, but I'll give a couple of examples of the many things I don't agree with on that list. You go to lunch at a set time because it would be pretty disruptive to classes if anyone just got up and said "I'm going to lunch now" any time they wanted to. "Why are you penalized for going beyond the classroom for information? " I'm never seen or heard of that happening. Everyone goes "beyond the classroom" for information. When I went to school, it was the library, now it is the internet, but it's not only allowed, it's expected. "Why do they never ever tell you that you can be more than a policeman or civil servant?" Silly, and, as far as I know, or have seen, completely untrue. "Why do you fear the principles office?" is like asking why you fear your boss's office. You don't, unless you know you screwed up and someone is going to confront you about it. And on and on...


What I put up was a personal opinion from a blog. 

I edited it and added an article which should go into more depth in explaining my point.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I got in trouble for going beyond the classroom for information. The section of the textbook was incorrect and I got an A- on a homework assignment instead of an A in addition to being scolded in front of the class for making up an answer. I had to show a reliable source for my answer to get credit for it. I showed my proof but was told to never again go outside the textbook while I was in that teacher's class.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> I
> your


You have a problem with any fact that challenges your ideology.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> any fact


Try providing one and then we will know


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> Firstly, I didn't imply that. Secondly, you didn't answer my questions.


First, you did imply it and, second, I did answer your question.

You wrote the following. "If the majority agree that certain things should be taught, and that other things should not be taught, would you agree that decision is up to them, or do you think that teachers know best and they should decide what to teach peoples' children?"
That statement implies that you think teachers are deciding what is in the curriculum and parents are left out of the equation. That is 100% false. Any time a proposed change to the curriculum is made, the proposed changes are made public and public comment is requested.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Try providing one and then we will know


I've provided plenty as well as research studies and, as is typical for you, you have a problem with anything that challenges the misinformation, half-truths and outright lies you are so fond of posting. Is it really that difficult for you to admit that you don't know what you are talking about?


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> First, you did imply it and, second, I did answer your question.
> 
> You wrote the following. "If the majority agree that certain things should be taught, and that other things should not be taught, would you agree that decision is up to them, or do you think that teachers know best and they should decide what to teach peoples' children?"
> That statement implies that you think teachers are deciding what is in the curriculum and parents are left out of the equation. That is 100% false. Any time a proposed change to the curriculum is made, the proposed changes are made public and public comment is requested.


Here are my questions again. Since you answered them, could you please just cut and paste your answers in here? I obviously missed them.

"Do you really think it's a matter of "because I don't want to" for most people?" I missed your answer to that entirely.

"If the majority agree that certain things should be taught, and that other things should not be taught, would you agree that decision is up to them, or do you think that teachers know best and they should decide what to teach peoples' children?" You'll notice I said "do you think...". That is the question I would like answered, not the one you answered that I didn't ask. 

So far, I give you a D- or an A for answering the questions that were actually asked. The D- is if you are a member of the terrible, oppressive majority, the A is in case you are in one of the groups that deserves a free pass.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> Here are my questions again. Since you answered them, could you please just cut and paste your answers in here? I obviously missed them.
> 
> "Do you really think it's a matter of "because I don't want to" for most people?" I missed your answer to that entirely.
> 
> ...


Since you obviously have a reading comprehension issue, here you go. 
As I have said before, the "add financial literacy to the curriculum" issue is yet another in the line of things parents want the schools to handle because they don't want to. What do you think the phrase "they don't want to" means and why is it used in the sentence? Parents who want to pass on information that they don't possess to their children make use of the many resources that are available to them to gain that information and then pass it on to their children. Parents who don't want to make the effort seek to push that task on to the schools. 

I'm not sure where you got the idea that teachers set the curriculum. We don't. Your entire second paragraph makes it clear that you don't know how the process of changing the curriculum works. It does not, as you want to imply, matter what teachers think should or should not be taught. That isn't the process. I'll type this very slowly so even you can understand. I believe that the process should be followed. Do you even bother to engage in the process when curriculum revisions come up or do you just whine and complain?


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> You do realize that K-12 teachers aren't teaching CRT right?





SLFarmMI said:


> The delusions that you have about education are not reality. The "indoctrinating them in the progressive liberal, America/family hating communist (sic) manifesto" is not happening.





“This year, I produced another series of reports focused on critical race theory in education. In Cupertino, Calif., an elementary school forced first-graders to deconstruct their racial and sexual identities and rank themselves according to their “power and privilege.” In Springfield, Mo., a middle school forced teachers to locate themselves on an “oppression matrix,” based on the idea that straight, white, English-speaking, Christian males are members of the oppressor class and must atone for their privilege and “covert white supremacy.”

In Philadelphia, an elementary school forced fifth-graders to celebrate “Black communism” and simulate a Black Power rally to free 1960s radical Angela Davis from prison, where she had once been held on charges of murder. “










What critical race theory is really about


Critical race theory is an academic discipline, formulated in the 1990s and built on the intellectual framework of identity-based Marxism.




nypost.com


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> The parents can't agree on what the service they expect is. This thread illustrates that.


Good reason to teach the basics and leave the rest to the parents


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> First, you did imply it and, second, I did answer your question.
> 
> You wrote the following. "If the majority agree that certain things should be taught, and that other things should not be taught, would you agree that decision is up to them, or do you think that teachers know best and they should decide what to teach peoples' children?"
> That statement implies that you think teachers are deciding what is in the curriculum and parents are left out of the equation. That is 100% false. Any time a proposed change to the curriculum is made, the proposed changes are made public and public comment is requested.


“Any time a proposed change to the curriculum is made, the proposed changes are made public and public comment is requested.”

I always assumed the curriculum was created by the administration, the teachers, and teachers unions. Who is making the changes? Apparently its not the public or it would not need to be a proposal and the public’s comment would not be needed.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> Since you obviously have a reading comprehension issue, here you go.
> As I have said before, the "add financial literacy to the curriculum" issue is yet another in the line of things parents want the schools to handle because they don't want to. What do you think the phrase "they don't want to" means and why is it used in the sentence? Parents who want to pass on information that they don't possess to their children make use of the many resources that are available to them to gain that information and then pass it on to their children. Parents who don't want to make the effort seek to push that task on to the schools.
> 
> I'm not sure where you got the idea that teachers set the curriculum. We don't. Your entire second paragraph makes it clear that you don't know how the process of changing the curriculum works. It does not, as you want to imply, matter what teachers think should or should not be taught. That isn't the process. I'll type this very slowly so even you can understand. I believe that the process should be followed. Do you even bother to engage in the process when curriculum revisions come up or do you just whine and complain?


My reading comprehension is fine, thanks. So, your answer is yes, you think people most people "just don't want to" teach their kids. I disagree.

It seems to me that you are the one struggling with reading comprehension. You keep answering questions I didn't ask. That means you are truly struggling to understand, or you're simply intellectually dishonest and are pretending you don't understand. I didn't say I think teachers set the curriculum, but again, you answered a question I didn't ask. Here is the question again, for the third time. ""If the majority agree that certain things should be taught, and that other things should not be taught, would you agree that decision is up to them, or *do you think that teachers know best and they should decide what to teach peoples' children?*"


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> My reading comprehension is fine, thanks. So, your answer is yes, you think people most people "just don't want to" teach their kids. I disagree.
> 
> It seems to me that you are the one struggling with reading comprehension. You keep answering questions I didn't ask. That means you are truly struggling to understand, or you're simply intellectually dishonest and are pretending you don't understand. I didn't say I think teachers set the curriculum, but again, you answered a question I didn't ask. Here is the question again, for the third time. ""If the majority agree that certain things should be taught, and that other things should not be taught, would you agree that decision is up to them, or *do you think that teachers know best and they should decide what to teach peoples' children?*"


You keep proposing a question along the lines of "Do you think you should stop beating your wife?" when the truth is that the person in question is not beating his wife in the first place. Your question is proposed on a false premise.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> You keep proposing a question along the lines of "Do you think you should stop beating your wife?" when the truth is that the person in question is not beating his wife in the first place. Your question is proposed on a false premise.


I don't see any type of connection between those two questions, either in substance or in type. Is it that hard to simply answer a question referring to what you think about something? Or is it easier to try to insult me? I don't think anyone is having any trouble seeing through what you are doing.

Let me trying again. Maybe you can get on board with me. "All parents suck, they want teachers to do their jobs for them, they want us to be their babysitters, we're overworked, underpaid, not appreciated, and they still dare to question us. Don't these stupid people realize we know what's best for their children? We're professionals for god's sake. What are they thinking?!?!?!?!"


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> As I have said before, the "add financial literacy to the curriculum" issue is yet another in the line of things parents want the schools to handle because they don't want to.


The original post simply asks "why not?" Nobody has suggested that they didn't want to teach their own kids. And I'm not suggesting that ANYTHING be left up to the schools without parental oversight. Just wondered why something like this is not part of the curriculum. That's all.





SLFarmMI said:


> Do you even bother to engage in the process when curriculum revisions come up or do you just whine and complain?


I suppose some may be discouraged by the pissing match that ensues when a simple question is asked or suggestion made.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

She answered your question. She believes the process that stands for changing curriculums is correct. That means parents and the school system work together. You keep moving the goal post and changing the question.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Teaching financial education in schools finally catches on


Twenty-one states now require a high school student to take personal finance course to graduate, up from 17 in 2018, according to a new report.




www.cnbc.com




Good news. Why not make it a national mandate?


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

painterswife said:


> She answered your question. She believes the process that stands for changing curriculums is correct. That means parents and the school system work together. You keep moving the goal post and changing the question.


That's interesting since I copied and pasted the same question 3 times. How did I change the question when I cut and pasted, and how does it concern you? You've shown your inability to answer simple questions as often, or more so, than she has.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

todd_xxxx said:


> That's interesting since I copied and pasted the same question 3 times. How did I change the question when I cut and pasted, and how does it concern you? You've shown your inability to answer simple questions as often, or more so, than she has.


Just because you don't like the answer you get does not mean the question did not get answered.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Redlands Okie said:


> “Any time a proposed change to the curriculum is made, the proposed changes are made public and public comment is requested.”
> 
> I always assumed the curriculum was created by the administration, the teachers, and teachers unions. Who is making the changes? Apparently its not the public or it would not need to be a proposal and the public’s comment would not be needed.


That's a common assumption but is not the case. Proposed changes to the curriculum come from a variety of sources -- some from changes to state or Federal law, some from new research on a particular topic, some from parents, some from business organizations, some from teachers & administration. The State Board of Education will meet, discuss the proposals and how they could/should be implemented and then put out a proposal outlining the changes that they think should be made. There will then be a period of time when they seek input from the public -- all of the public. Then they go through the input, make tweaks to the proposal based on that input and go for another round of public comment. Then they will come up with a final version and vote on it.

At the local level, if your district wants to change textbooks, add or change a class/program, etc. the process is much the same. The proposal comes from the teachers & administration, school board and/or parents. Materials/proposed changes are made available for parents and other community members to review, public comment is requested and then the board votes.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

painterswife said:


> She answered your question. She believes the process that stands for changing curriculums is correct. That means parents and the school system work together. You keep moving the goal post and changing the question.


How do you know that? Were you not confused by all this?


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Seems at the local level the School program is about what I thought. Higher levels I had not thought to much about and all of those inputs is not surprising. 

Thanks for the reply Slfarmmi


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

painterswife said:


> Just because you don't like the answer you get does not mean the question did not get answered.


You are definitely both cut from the same cloth.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

todd_xxxx said:


> You are definitely both cut from the same cloth.


I will take that as a compliment. Thanks.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Redlands Okie said:


> Seems at the local level the School program is about what I thought. Higher levels I had not thought to much about and all of those inputs is not surprising.
> 
> Thanks for the reply Slfarmmi


You're welcome.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

This school board seems totally uninterested in parents opinions.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

no really said:


> This school board seems totally uninterested in parents opinions.


That is exactly the sort of "how dare you question us" pissant authority that many of us have dealt with in regards to public education. You can see examples of it in this thread as well.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

no really said:


> This school board seems totally uninterested in parents opinions.


wow.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

YOU'RE DONE!

Yep, that is how I would want my tax money spent.

YOU'RE DONE!YOU'RE DONE!YOU'RE DONE!YOU'RE DONE!YOU'RE DONE!


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/23/teacher-pushes-back-against-k-12-critical-race-theory-indoctrination/



The school “has embraced an ideology that is damaging to our students’ intellectual and emotional growth — an ideology that requires students to see themselves not as individuals, but as representatives of either an oppressor or oppressed group.” She says, “This theoretical framework pervades every division of Dwight-Englewood as the singular way of seeing the world.” She is believable because the framework increasingly pervades K-12 education nationwide. Dwight-Englewood students, “obsessed with power hierarchies,” accept this ideology “simply as fact,” which “hinders their ability to read, write and think.” She says they “approach texts in search of the oppressor,” a blinkered perspective that limits their “ability to observe and engage with the full fabric of human experience in our literature.” Students afraid of being ostracized engage in “self-censorship.” At a February faculty meeting, “teachers were segregated by skin color.” “Last fall, administrators told [the faculty] we were not allowed to question the school’s ideological programming.” At Dwight-Englewood (ages 3 and 4 preschool, $30,220 tuition; grades 6-12, $52,100), Stangel-Plowe says, the school head told the faculty that, were it possible, he would fire them all and replace them with people of color. The school head is White. A compilation of faculty members’ Pavlovian statements during a “training” session makes nauseating reading. Responding to prompts such as “In the last year, I have learned *_* about race and racism,” and “One way I will work for racial equity in my work,” teachers say: “American society makes it hard to have high hopes.” Racism infests the nation’s “entire fabric.” Everyone must “lean into the discomfort.” “Older millennials are disappointingly racist.” “Aspects of the anti racist movement have been co-opted by neoliberal corporations, and reactionarily [sic] opposed by many even mainstream conservative thinkers.” Racism is “layered into everything we do at school.” We must “share the harsh reality of the BIPOC and LBGTQI communities with our students.” “Discuss issues of equity as arising in most every book I teach.” On and on they go, bleating like sheep who have been liberated from “false consciousness.”


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Lisa in WA said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/23/teacher-pushes-back-against-k-12-critical-race-theory-indoctrination/
> 
> 
> 
> The school “has embraced an ideology that is damaging to our students’ intellectual and emotional growth — an ideology that requires students to see themselves not as individuals, but as representatives of either an oppressor or oppressed group.” She says, “This theoretical framework pervades every division of Dwight-Englewood as the singular way of seeing the world.” She is believable because the framework increasingly pervades K-12 education nationwide. Dwight-Englewood students, “obsessed with power hierarchies,” accept this ideology “simply as fact,” which “hinders their ability to read, write and think.” She says they “approach texts in search of the oppressor,” a blinkered perspective that limits their “ability to observe and engage with the full fabric of human experience in our literature.” Students afraid of being ostracized engage in “self-censorship.” At a February faculty meeting, “teachers were segregated by skin color.” “Last fall, administrators told [the faculty] we were not allowed to question the school’s ideological programming.” At Dwight-Englewood (ages 3 and 4 preschool, $30,220 tuition; grades 6-12, $52,100), Stangel-Plowe says, the school head told the faculty that, were it possible, he would fire them all and replace them with people of color. The school head is White. A compilation of faculty members’ Pavlovian statements during a “training” session makes nauseating reading. Responding to prompts such as “In the last year, I have learned *_* about race and racism,” and “One way I will work for racial equity in my work,” teachers say: “American society makes it hard to have high hopes.” Racism infests the nation’s “entire fabric.” Everyone must “lean into the discomfort.” “Older millennials are disappointingly racist.” “Aspects of the anti racist movement have been co-opted by neoliberal corporations, and reactionarily [sic] opposed by many even mainstream conservative thinkers.” Racism is “layered into everything we do at school.” We must “share the harsh reality of the BIPOC and LBGTQI communities with our students.” “Discuss issues of equity as arising in most every book I teach.” On and on they go, bleating like sheep who have been liberated from “false consciousness.”


Weren't we just told, over and over, in as insulting a way possible, that this is not happening and is just a conservative conspiracy theory?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

This some real Soviet stuff


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

HDRider said:


> YOU'RE DONE!
> 
> Yep, that is how I would want my tax money spent.
> 
> YOU'RE DONE!YOU'RE DONE!YOU'RE DONE!YOU'RE DONE!YOU'RE DONE!


That guy would not have wanted to scream at me over and over "YOU'RE DONE". I don't take well to being screamed at like I'm a child and a broken nose may well teach him to keep a more civil tongue in his head. .


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> Weren't we just told, over and over, in as insulting a way possible, that this is not happening and is just a conservative conspiracy theory?


Did you bother to read the post above yours? Bet you didn't or you wouldn't be trying to use something from a PRIVATE school to continue to bash the public schools. And, btw, the ones being insulting in this thread are you and your fellow public school bashers.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> Did you bother to read the post above yours? Bet you didn't or you wouldn't be trying to use something from a PRIVATE school to continue to bash the public schools. And, btw, the ones being insulting in this thread are you and your fellow public school bashers.


I'm not bashing public schools. I'm bashing people like you. Anyway, just because private schools are teaching CRT does not mean public schools are not.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Did you bother to read the post above yours? Bet you didn't or you wouldn't be trying to use something from a PRIVATE school to continue to bash the public schools. And, btw, the ones being insulting in this thread are you and your fellow public school bashers.


Here’s one from a public school.









School employee slams bosses over critical race theory in resignation letter


A New Hampshire elementary school coordinator trashed his bosses this week in a viral resignation letter, accusing them of endorsing “dehumanization and hatred of white people” in critical race theory training for staff.




www.washingtonexaminer.com


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)




----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> I'm not bashing public schools. I'm bashing people like you. Anyway, just because private schools are teaching CRT does not mean public schools are not.


No, you're bashing anyone that presents you with facts that fly in the face of your illusions about public schools. And if public schools are teaching CRT, then certainly the legislatures in the many states that have passed legislation banning it should have been able to point out examples of public school classrooms where it was being taught. And yet, they couldn't.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Just a simple question...so I thought!

LMAO!!!

This thread went down hill faster than a wagon full of fat kids!


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> ...the legislatures in the many states that have passed legislation banning it should have been able to point out examples of public school classrooms where it was being taught. And yet, they couldn't.


Some places are doing this preemptively.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> No, you're bashing anyone that presents you with facts that fly in the face of your illusions about public schools. And if public schools are teaching CRT, then certainly the legislatures in the many states that have passed legislation banning it should have been able to point out examples of public school classrooms where it was being taught. And yet, they couldn't.


Much like those school board members, you don't get to tell me what I think.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> Here’s one from a public school.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And, yet, the district in question in your article does not teach CRT at any of their schools.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> And, yet, the district in question in your article does not teach CRT at any of their schools.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> Much like those school board members, you don't get to tell me what I think.


When you are posting things that are not true, I will absolutely call you on them.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

"Concannon's letter aside, the district did mandate that all staffers had to take "white privilege" training — including curriculum declaring "whiteness a pillar of white supremacy" — as part of the district's "Diversity, Equity and Inclusion" efforts.
When the orders for the training were uncovered by NHJournal in March, the district claimed the training was voluntary. However, according to a March 1 email obtained by NHJournal, the district required the staffers to take the training by certain deadlines.
"We have also put together a list of training for you to utilize to get a better understanding of how we can provide Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) to our students," reads the March 1 email from Program Coordinator Liz Penn. "Each training has a deadline [emphasis added]. We (DEI committee) will also be doing small group check ins… Each school has their own tab to keep track of what needs to be completed." "

"Declaring all White employees "personally privileged" — even those who came from poverty or disadvantaged situations — is likely to be viewed as problematic, as is linking every person's "whiteness" to "white supremacy." But it is part of the "anti-racism" ideology the webinar instructors say they are promoting, an ideology popularized by the author Ibram X. Kendi and based on the premise that all White people are racists.
Additional MSD training materials include a paper from a Wellesley professor who declares that all men and all White women are "oppressors" and that meritocracy — the idea that you have a job or accomplishments you've earned through work or talent — is a "myth." "


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> And, yet, the district in question in your article does not teach CRT at any of their schools.


You can *say *it isn’t critical race theory all you like, but no one believes you*. And for good reason.*
I have to wonder why you even bother here.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

"There’s also an article attacking former President Donald Trump and Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh while defending illegal immigration. How do these partisan political views fit into the job of “promoting student learning and growth?” "

"Race-based training that teaches white people they are inherently racist or oppressive is not unique. Coca-Cola recently pulled down online training that urged its employees to be “less white” after receiving unfavorable publicity. In New Hampshire, parents raised concerns about training at the local schools — including elementary schools — with titles like “Exploring Whiteness and Becoming an Anti-Racist Activist.”
That’s one reason New Hampshire House Republicans are pushing legislation to ban government employees and contractors from engaging in “divisive” training activities like these. (A bill Gov. Sununu has already pledged to veto.)"


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

"Dear Committee Members,
We write this email to respectfully request you vote in favor of HB544. I believe most of our fellow citizens in NH do not believe racist and discriminatory practices are acceptable and this bill would make sure that these practices are against NH State law.
We have two children, one in second grade and one who will be entering kindergarten next year at SAU70 and we are deeply concerned about what is being taught regarding these topics.
For example, an intensive was recently taught titled “Exploring Whiteness and Becoming an Anti-Racist Activist” that contained blatantly racist and anti-American topics. The course syllabus is attached for your reference.
A brief summary of the objectionable content includes:


A quiz that asks: The rise of white supremacy was tied most directly to:
Indian removal
Slavery
*The Declaration of Independence (according to the quiz, this is the correct answer)*
The US Constitution
Ancient Greece

 

A 2hr 13min lecture given by Tim Wise that includes the following statements:
“Rich white people telling working class white people that their problem is other working class people who just so happen to be browner than themselves. That is the whole history of America.”
“Let’s be clear. Our ancestors from Europe were the losers of their societies.”
“Liberty and freedom? You think we believed in that? What history book have you been reading? We didn’t believe in that.”

 

A 1hr23 minute lecture from Robin DiAngelo who states over and over again and whose entire talk is consumed with how all whites are “fragile” due their complicity in our ”racist system.”
 
In my opinion, these kinds of statements are as objectionable as they are false and inflammatory. They have no place in our NH schools and the training programs of NH companies.
I am the son of a Marine veteran and my grandfather and several great uncles served in the armed forces during WWII. Some of my ancestors were rounded up, sent to camps and exterminated. My family knows what racism and white supremacy look like. We have fought and we have died to defend the United States and the egalitarian principles for which it stands. It is a sad commentary about our times that we need HB544, but the reality is that we do.
Please pass HB544 so I can send my kids to a school free from racism, discrimination and racial stereotyping.
Thank you,
Daniel L. Richards
Etna, NH"


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> Did you bother to read the post above yours? Bet you didn't or you wouldn't be trying to use something from a PRIVATE school to continue to bash the public schools. And, btw, the ones being insulting in this thread are you and your fellow public school bashers.


Hmm, private school and the parents can take their money elsewhere. Unlike the public schools.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> And, yet, the district in question in your article does not teach CRT at any of their schools.


What do you call it ?










School employee slams bosses over critical race theory in resignation letter


A New Hampshire elementary school coordinator trashed his bosses this week in a viral resignation letter, accusing them of endorsing “dehumanization and hatred of white people” in critical race theory training for staff.




www.washingtonexaminer.com


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The questions swirling around in my head.

Does she get paid to defend this crap?

Does she believe this crap as strong as she defends it?

Where does such a belief system come from?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

So nasty. Someone has different experiences and opinions and you go to them being paid. The personal attacks and insinuations every time someone disagrees are disgusting.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> So nasty. Someone has different experiences and opinions and you go to them being paid. The personal attacks and insinuations every time someone disagrees are disgusting.


I don't think anyone would pay you


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Redlands Okie said:


> Hmm, private school and the parents can take their money elsewhere. Unlike the public schools.


Uh, oh!


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

painterswife said:


> So nasty. Someone has different experiences and opinions and you go to them being paid. The personal attacks and insinuations every time someone disagrees are disgusting.


I agree. All I did was ask this simple question regarding school curriculum.



kinderfeld said:


> Why is financial literacy completely overlooked? I teach my kids. But why is it not taught in schools?


And almost immediately I got this nasty response.



SLFarmMI said:


> Because not everything on Earth is the school's responsibility to teach. Some things belong to the parents. Remember, "parent" is also a verb.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> So nasty. Someone has different experiences and opinions and you go to them being paid. The personal attacks and insinuations every time someone disagrees are disgusting.


Well, butter my butt and call me a biscuit! Looky there. You gave an opinion!


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

OK. That's just weird.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Lisa in WA said:


> Well, butter my butt and call me a biscuit! Looky there. You gave an opinion!


It wasn't much, but it was something.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

HDRider said:


> I don't think anyone would pay you


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> You keep proposing a question along the lines of "Do you think you should stop beating your wife?" when the truth is that the person in question is not beating his wife in the first place. Your question is proposed on a false premise.


Not even a little bit.

He clearly asked you if you thought teachers know best and should decide what gets taught. That is nothing like a trap question.

It’s a simple enough one to answer, even as a straight yes-or-no. One answer is more difficult to defend, but yours to do so if you choose. The other answer is extremely easy, and puts you in a position to ask your own question.

FFS. Honest debate doesn’t have to be that hard.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> FFS. Honest debate doesn’t have to be that hard.



Honest debate is to be avoided at all costs, if your positions (past, present and future) are indefensible.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Honest debate doesn’t have to be that hard.


You wouldn't think so.
Or maybe an honest answer to a honest question. Damn.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

kinderfeld said:


> Redlands Okie said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm, private school and the parents can take their money elsewhere. Unlike the public schools.
> ...


So now you’re a _voucher pusher_… and a _voucher basher. _

Dang it, Okie, you broke the robot. Someone put a lot of effort into writing that program and you had to go and break it.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

kinderfeld said:


> You wouldn't think so.
> Or maybe an honest answer to a honest question. Damn.


In most cases, they’re afraid of where the question leads.

If you’re not afraid of having to defend (or pivot) your position, being painted into a corner is not that scary.

On the other hand, if all you have is the cards that the prep-team wrote for you, running to the end of the deck, with nowhere else to go, is fatal.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> On the other hand, if all you have is the cards that the prep-team wrote for you, running to the end of the deck, with nowhere else to go, is fatal.


Have you not been paying any attention? When you run to end of the deck and have no cards left, pull out the infinite number of race cards.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Hiro said:


> Have you not been paying any attention? When you run to end of the deck and have no cards left, pull out the infinite number of race cards.


Hell, when you run out of cards, you can even complain about the color of the paper your prep-team gave you.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

kinderfeld said:


> You wouldn't think so.
> Or maybe an honest answer to a honest question. Damn.


You and the rest of the posters here got honest answers to your questions. You didn't like the answers.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

kinderfeld said:


> Some places are doing this preemptively.


They are doing it to keep the boogeyman alive and well because, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter to them what is or is not really happening. It matters what they can make you afraid is happening.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> The questions swirling around in my head.
> 
> Does she get paid to defend this crap?
> 
> ...


I realize that facts and the truth are alien to you.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Not even a little bit.
> 
> He clearly asked you if you thought teachers know best and should decide what gets taught. That is nothing like a trap question.
> 
> ...


His question was absolutely based on a false premise. I gave him an answer. He just didn't like it. 

Maybe he should try some honest debate instead of the "it doesn't match my ideology so it can't be right" nonsense.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

1. It is included is some schools

2. Most parents are NOT involved in the education of their offspring

3. Only a TINY fraction of parents go to board meetings or participate in policy decision making

4. While the OP may have proposed a solution to a perceived problem, it may NOT be a problem 

5. The whole thread is a tempest in a teapot unless each person who posted goes to a local school district administrator and asks what the local curriculum encompasses.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

These are rehearsed lines, professionally delivered.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Whose?


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> You can *say *it isn’t critical race theory all you like, but no one believes you*. And for good reason.*
> I have to wonder why you even bother here.


I live in hope that there may be someone out there who is interested in the truth instead of the nonsense that you want to push. And, as much as you don't like that I do post the truth, I will continue to do so. I will post what I want when I want and, if you don't like it, feel free to show yourself out.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I wish there was a highlights version


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The video is a celebration of exploding the America we love.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> I live in hope that there may be someone out there who is interested in the truth instead of the nonsense that you want to push. And, as much as you don't like that I do post the truth, I will continue to do so. I will post what I want when I want and, if you don't like it, feel free to show yourself out.


You don’t post the truth. 
You’re a silly woman who says the same things over and over and has lost sight of the truth and replaced it with spitefulness and bitterness.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Parents job to teach their kids. Got it. Let's defund public education.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> While the OP may have proposed a solution to a perceived problem, it may NOT be a problem.


A lack of financial literacy in this nation most certainly is a problem. A big one.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I was referring to the inclusion of financial education in the curriculum. It’s in there.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I was referring to the inclusion of financial education in the curriculum. It’s in there.


Not everywhere. And certainly not to the extent that it probably should be.
Oh, well.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Just for general information I'll leave this here:

_Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

This is "Not the Bee" and Not "Babylon Bee"_


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> You don’t post the truth.
> You’re a silly woman who says the same things over and over and has lost sight of the truth and replaced it with spitefulness and bitterness.


That is rich coming from the likes of you. You are so blinded by your ideology that you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the nose and anytime someone posts the truth, you go off on a temper tantrum.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> The video is a celebration of exploding the America we love.


You obviously didn't watch it.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> That is rich coming from the likes of you. You are so blinded by your ideology that you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the nose and anytime someone posts the truth, you go off on a temper tantrum.


What ideology do you suppose I follow?
Hmmm….A little projection on your part? I’m pretty sure that you are known as the tantrum thrower here.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> What ideology do you suppose I follow?
> Hmmm….A little projection on your part? I’m pretty sure that you are known as the tantrum thrower here.


I'm pretty sure that if you want to look at at tantrum thrower, you should look in the mirror.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> The video is a celebration of exploding the America we love.


Just out of curiosity. Exactly what part was "exploding the America we love"?


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> His question was absolutely based on a false premise. I gave him an answer. He just didn't like it.
> 
> Maybe he should try some honest debate instead of the "it doesn't match my ideology so it can't be right" nonsense.


That's awesome. You gave me answer alright, but you still never answered the question I asked. That's okay, not answering the question tells me all I need to know.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> That's awesome. You gave me answer alright, but you still never answered the question I asked. That's okay, not answering the question tells me all I need to know.


Try re-reading. I answered the question you asked and @painterswife even restated the answer so you'd be sure not to miss it.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

What an awesome thread. I've been gone on business today. My wife has buttery fingers and kernels between her teeth and said "That teacher should be fired!" Lol. 
"Honey, there are no teachers here."


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

no really said:


> This school board seems totally uninterested in parents opinions.


The video above of a public school board's treatment of parents is disgraceful.
Without digging thru the posts, has anyone stated the segment is a myth, lie or beyond the comprehension to understand by the great unwashed?
The parents were probably all conservatives, yeah, that's the ticket.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I'm sure the source for this will be shot down but this article claims that on the district level, "teachers often have the upper hand in developing the modules of what they will be included in their teaching".






Why Does Every State In The U.S. Have A Different Educational Curriculum?


Educational system in the United States is considered as one of the best system in the world. They have a strong commitment that all individuals have the right to receive good education.




www.teach-nology.com





I am not sure I would trust the information given by such a poorly worded site.

According to Oregon, that state doesn't decide what their standards are. They use the ones from Ohio. Ohio standards are decided largely by educators, principals, superintendants, businesses and lastly parents.






Curriculum & Testing







www.oregoncityschools.org


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> That is rich coming from the likes of you. You are so blinded by your ideology that you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the nose and anytime someone posts the truth, you go off on a temper tantrum.


Who does that sound like? Really You don't sound like a stupid woman but you do seem to be overly entrenched in your beliefs and opinions and stolidly unwilling to change them, any logic to the contrary. Please leave personal attacks out of your responses, they really do nothing to enhance your position.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

GTX63 said:


> The video above of a public school board's treatment of parents is disgraceful.
> Without digging thru the posts, has anyone stated the segment is a myth, lie or beyond the comprehension to understand by the great unwashed?
> The parents were probably all conservatives, yeah, that's the ticket.


The guy just needs his ass kicked.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> That is rich coming from the likes of you. You are so blinded by your ideology that you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the nose and anytime someone posts the truth, you go off on a temper tantrum.


Lisa? An ideologue?

I challenge you to pick 10 positions either the right or the left hold and see if you get her right on 51% of them.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

kinderfeld said:


> The guy just needs his ass kicked.


I don't live in Bucks County Pennsylvania, where that* public school board* meeting was held, but surely that are a few men with hair on their backs, or women, that wouldn't have waited for the 3rd "You are Done!" to do the job.
That *public school official*, and all of the *public school board members* who sat there and let that happen, are garbage.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

gilberte said:


> Who does that sound like? Really You don't sound like a stupid woman but you do seem to be overly entrenched in your beliefs and opinions and stolidly unwilling to change them, any logic to the contrary. Please leave personal attacks out of your responses, they really do nothing to enhance your position.


I really hope you passed that little tidbit of wisdom along to several other posters on this thread as they are sorely in need of the advice.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

To quote a fairly well known member from Homesteading Today who is no longer with us, yet his wisdom lives on
"Patterns Never change."
"SSDD".


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Public schools do not have to advertise their products and services.
If they did, here is a little bit of advice to you and the Bucks County School Board, don't be the first to volunteer as a spokesmxn.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

kinderfeld said:


> The guy just needs his ass kicked.


It's rather telling that several posters are advocating violence against board members who are following board policy that states comments "that become personally directed, abusive, obscene or irrelevant will be ended immediately". If you watch the entire video and not this edited clip, you'll see that the commenters were not abiding by that policy.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yes, I watched the video unedited. The edited video is for hype and not reflective of what was actually happening.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> It's rather telling that several posters are advocating violence against board members who are following board policy that states comments "that become personally directed, abusive, obscene or irrelevant will be ended immediately". If you watch the entire video and not this edited clip, you'll see that the commenters were not abiding by that policy.


Board policy is to scream like a child at a parent trying to comment on policy? It's pretty convenient that you can tell anyone you like that their thoughts on a policy are irrelevant. Edited or not, it's pretty clear the board member is screaming like an idiot. Few people would try to justify that board member's behavior. Bravo.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Yeah, they sure looked like violent thugs.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

painterswife said:


> Yes, I watched the video unedited. The edited video is for hype and not reflective of what was actually happening.


And, in a shocking development, "painterswife" agrees with you.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

painterswife said:


> Yes, I watched the video unedited. The edited video is for hype and not reflective of what was actually happening.


Have you ever attended a school board meeting on behalf of your kids?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The guy that looked like the Incredible Mr. Limpit was shaking so much he could hardly put his reading glasses back into his case.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> Board policy is to scream like a child at a parent trying to comment on policy? It's pretty convenient that you can tell anyone you like that their thoughts on a policy are irrelevant. Edited or not, it's pretty clear the board member is screaming like an idiot. Few people would try to justify that board member's behavior. Bravo.


He's not screaming. Not even close. He is raising his voice because the commenters are refusing to listen when he is telling them to stop. If you bother to listen, he tells them very politely the first and second times to stop and they continue to talk over him. There is no screaming involved.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> It's rather telling that several posters are advocating violence against board members who are following board policy that states comments "that become personally directed, abusive, obscene or irrelevant will be ended immediately". If you watch the entire video and not this edited clip, you'll see that the commenters were not abiding by that policy.


Relevancy is very subjective. That POS just didn't want to hear it. Their concerns were dismissed. And yes, yelling at parents the way he did, he deserves a fist in the mouth.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> He's not screaming. Not even close. He is raising his voice because the commenters are refusing to listen when he is telling them to stop. If you bother to listen, he tells them very politely the first and second times to stop and they continue to talk over him. There is no screaming involved.


HE was refusing to listen....which was the whole point of the meeting.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

School board meetings have rules. They did not follow them.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> He's not screaming. Not even close. He is raising his voice because the commenters are refusing to listen when he is telling them to stop. If you bother to listen, he tells them very politely the first and second times to stop and they continue to talk over him. There is no screaming involved.


If you were being honest and objective, you would admit HE was talking over them. "raising his voice" becomes "screaming" and "yelling" at some point. Most people would probably agree with that. Not you, of course. Never you. And "very politely"? Bull$hit.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

painterswife said:


> School board meetings have rules. They did not follow them.


Yeah, they make the rules. Convenient.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

todd_xxxx said:


> Yeah, they make the rules. Convenient.


Yes, other parents elected to the school board make the rules.  They even vote on those tules.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

"*Is raising your voice the same thing as yelling?*
Raising your voice and yelling are different, where yelling means shouting in a loud tone of voice when someone is feeling angry, frustrated, or has lost their temper." 

Clearly, that was the case here.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> What we need is for Congress to pass the bill that says school funding follows the student. That would straighten many school districts out real quick.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

painterswife said:


> Yes, other parents elected to the school board make the rules.  They even vote on those tules.


When you elect a person for a position, you aren't really able to tell if they will become power hungry, rude, argumentative jerks after they are in the position. It's also pretty subjective as to whether those parents were breaking the rules by trying to voice their concerns.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Yes, other parents elected to the school board make the rules.  They even vote on those tules.


When they decide what is allowed to be discussed, it becomes pointless.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kinderfeld said:


> When they decide what is allowed to be discussed, it becomes pointless.


School boards have rules, just like Town meetings have rules. They set certain times for new business and discussing things not on the agenda. These people did not follow those rules. They disrupted the regular business and the purpose of the meeting. Then it gets cut and edited to make a point and not present the entire truth. Not a good example to make a case.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> If you were being honest and objective, you would admit HE was talking over them. "raising his voice" becomes "screaming" and "yelling" at some point. Most people would probably agree with that. Not you, of course. Never you. And "very politely"? Bull$hit.


If you were being honest and objective, you would admit that he was not screaming or yelling. Raising one's voice does become screaming and yelling at some point but they were nowhere near that point. And, yes, he was being very polite when he first interjected. You can see that most clearly with the second commenter. The board member tells him very politely that the name he is using for the policy is incorrect and the commenter replies very rudely that he doesn't care what it's called, he will name it whatever he feels like.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The three parents who were talked over and disrespected would probably disagree with you.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Have you ever attended a school board meeting on behalf of your kids?


Many. Almost every single one during their time in school as a matter of fact. And, interestingly enough, they all review the rules for commenting at the start of the public comment section of the meeting. Those people who follow the rules, regardless of the topic or their position on the same, are allowed to complete their comment. Those who don't, aren't.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I don't think that question was for you.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> The three parents who were talked over and disrespected would probably disagree with you.


Then maybe they should have followed the rules for public commenting which were reviewed at the start of the public comment section of the meeting.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> I don't think that question was for you.


It's an open forum.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Realty is being so convoluted here that Trolling almost has to be at the heart of it.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> It's an open forum.


Maye the parents should have said that, lol


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Maye the parents should have said that, lol


Maybe the parents should have followed the rules. It's not like they were unaware of them.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> If you were being honest and objective, you would admit that he was not screaming or yelling. Raising one's voice does become screaming and yelling at some point but they were nowhere near that point. And, yes, he was being very polite when he first interjected. You can see that most clearly with the second commenter. The board member tells him very politely that the name he is using for the policy is incorrect and the commenter replies very rudely that he doesn't care what it's called, he will name it whatever he feels like.


I'm not certain whether you have actual cognitive issues or are just deliberately being obtuse for some reason that escapes me. Either way, trying to discuss anything with you is futile.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Stand in line at customer service for any merchant and see how long the average man or women would put up with a knothead like that. Crazytown.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

todd_xxxx said:


> I'm not certain whether you have actual cognitive issues or are just deliberately being obtuse for some reason that escapes me. Either way, trying to discuss anything with you is futile.


This is the behavior that needs to be shown to the public.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> I'm not certain whether you have actual cognitive issues or are just deliberately being obtuse for some reason that escapes me. Either way, trying to discuss anything with you is futile.


Having difficulty because I'm countering your nonsense with facts? Did you watch the entire, unedited video?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Your fact word is broken.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Stand in line at customer service for any merchant and see how long the average man or women would put up with a knothead like that. Crazytown.


Customers who refused to follow the rules would be asked to leave.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Your fact word is broken.


Did you watch the entire, unedited video? Somehow I doubt it.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

A store manager or clerk would be fired.
He wouldn't work for me.
The customer would get his money back.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

GTX63 said:


> Maye the parents should have said that, lol


Nope. School board members get to decide what gets discussed. That way they can avoid uncomfortable conversations when parents voice concerns.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> Did you watch the entire, unedited video? Somehow I doubt it.


"Your son hit my daughter in the back and pushed her down, knocking her teeth out."
"Derp, did you watch the video? She was rude."


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Lol, this thread should be a sticky.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> "Your son hit my daughter in the back and pushed her down, knocking her teeth out."
> "Derp, did you watch the video? She was rude."


Avoiding the question, I see.

Let's try a different one. Were the commenters following the rules of public comment during a school board meeting?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

No, I'm sorry but you don't.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Were the commenters following the rules of public comment during a school board meeting?


They were allowed to speak and then cut off when the screwal board member didn't like what he heard.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

"Comments that become personal directed, abusive, obscene or irrelevant will be ended immediately

Those are the rules on public comment at that school board as read out loud at the meeting.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> "Comments that become personal directed, abusive, obscene or irrelevant will be ended immediately
> 
> Those are the rules on public comment at that school board as read out loud at the meeting.


With those rules in place the school board comments should have been ended immediately.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

> todd_xxxx said:
> I'm not certain whether you have actual cognitive issues or are just deliberately being obtuse for some reason that escapes me. Either way, trying to discuss anything with you is futile.





SLFarmMI said:


> Having difficulty because I'm countering your nonsense with facts? Did you watch the entire, unedited video?


That helped me decide, thank you.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I'm not sure you 


painterswife said:


> "Comments that become personal directed, abusive, obscene or irrelevant will be ended immediately
> 
> Those are the rules on public comment at that school board as read out loud at the meeting.


I'm not sure you grasp what took place.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Eh, yeah, I think maybe you do.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

no really said:


> With those rules in place the school board comments should have been ended immediately.


Maybe if the parents would have considered peacefully protesting they might have been given the respect and time they deserved.
Thank god no one had a speech impediment or a handicap and could speak the wall the school lord demanded.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> I'm not sure you
> 
> 
> I'm not sure you grasp what took place.


I'm not sure you do. Were those commenters following the rules for public comment that were read at the beginning of the public comment section of the meeting? No, they weren't. Should those who want to comment at a school board meeting be required to follow the meeting rules? Yes, they should.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Maybe if the parents would have considered peacefully protesting they might have been given the respect and time they deserved.
> Thank god no one had a speech impediment or a handicap and could speak the wall the school lord demanded.


Maybe if the parents had followed the rules for public commenting like everyone else present at the meeting, they would have been able to finish their comments.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Yes, I'm sure all the spectators in seated in the peanut gallery were disgusted at what they witnessed, lol.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

todd_xxxx said:


> That helped me decide, thank you.


We have some wonderful gifts for you at the door. Thank you for participating.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

painterswife said:


> "Comments that become personal directed, abusive, obscene or irrelevant will be ended immediately
> 
> Those are the rules on public comment at that school board as read out loud at the meeting.


And again, relevancy is subjective. Makes it easy to avoid uncomfortable conversations.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Maybe if the parents had followed the rules for public commenting like everyone else present at the meeting, they would have been able to finish their comments.


Maybe if that guy gets punched in the mouth he won't yell at concerned parents.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Geez, I'm just saying that a stronger focus on financial literacy may very well benefit the future of our nation.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

kinderfeld said:


> Geez, I'm just saying that a stronger focus on financial literacy may very well benefit the future of our nation.


Heathen


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kinderfeld said:


> And again, relevancy is subjective. Makes it easy to avoid uncomfortable conversations.


I agree that those parents should have a right to speak to the problems they believe exist in the school system in their district. That is important.

Don't you believe they should have followed the rules ( even if you disagree with the rules in place) in order to get their point across? 

I will say that many of the problems that the school teachers in my family have experienced with parents are because the parents won't follow the rules and want special treatment for themselves or their children.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

kinderfeld said:


> Geez, I'm just saying that a stronger focus on financial literacy may very well benefit the future of our nation.


I think most people agree with that too. 

One other thing: Some squeaky wheels will never get enough grease. Save your grease.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

todd_xxxx said:


> Heathen


But I have lots of fun!😁


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> I think most people agree with that too.
> 
> One other thing: Some squeaky wheels will never get enough grease. Save your grease.


The bearings need to be replaced


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

no really said:


> With those rules in place the school board comments should have been ended immediately.


No kidding. They are all entirely subjective. 
And you’d think the President of the board would declare someone out of order rather that the hired gun.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> The bearings need to be replaced


That is often the case. 

I just take heart knowing that negative opinion is in the minority from what I have read.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

kinderfeld said:


> Geez, I'm just saying that a stronger focus on financial literacy may very well benefit the future of our nation.


Then maybe parents should pass that knowledge on to their children. But this is just another in a long, seemingly never-ending series of "the schools should teach...". Fill in the blank with your pet project. The last one going around, if memory serves, was gardening. "The schools should teach kids how to garden. Every school should have a garden." One of the ones before that was grocery shopping. "The schools should teach kids how to grocery shop so they won't fill their carts with junk." It's an endless parade of attempts to pile more and more on teachers' plates. 

At most, if you want financial literacy to be a class and don't want parents to be responsible for teaching it to their kids, then make it an option that schools can offer if they want and students can take if they want.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Then maybe parents should pass that knowledge on to their children. But this is just another in a long, seemingly never-ending series of* "the schools should teach...".* Fill in the blank with your pet project.


Not from me. There's very little that I think schools should take on. But this is one, IMO.



SLFarmMI said:


> The last one going around, if memory serves, was gardening. "The schools should teach kids how to garden. Every school should have a garden."


Some schools offer horticulture as an elective. But, no. It should not be required.



SLFarmMI said:


> One of the ones before that was grocery shopping.
> "The schools should teach kids how to grocery shop so they won't fill their carts with junk."


Ridiculous. Besides, many teachers look like they could use such a class.



SLFarmMI said:


> It's an endless parade of attempts to pile more and more on teachers' plates.


I agree that many expect too much. I certainly don't. I believe that they are expected to do so much by some parents that they aren't that great at any of it. You know, jack of all trades, master of none.



SLFarmMI said:


> At most, if you want financial literacy to be a class and don't want parents to be responsible for teaching it to their kids, then make it an option that schools can offer if they want and students can take if they want.


I never said that parents shouldn't be responsible. But yes, that may be a good start. I just think it should go beyond balancing a check book.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I agree that those parents should have a right to speak to the problems they believe exist in the school system in their district. That is important.
> 
> Don't you believe they should have followed the rules ( even if you disagree with the rules in place) in order to get their point across?
> 
> I will say that many of the problems that the school teachers in my family have experienced with parents are because the parents won't follow the rules and want special treatment for themselves or their children.


There should be no rule against calmly voicing a concern.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

But what if as CRT lays out, race matters. If the parent at Bucks County would have stated the following, how would they have reacted to her?
I don't think there was a fear Mr. Limpet would have been a threat to peacefully protest following his eviction from the room.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="



" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Or how about this fellow. Was he following "rules"?
I think different methods are in play for how to handle parents concerns.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="



" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Rules change based upon what is considered relevant and by whom.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

If you tell that suburban grandpa to shut up and get out, what is he going to do?
Tell a black woman or man from most anywhere in front of their kids to use the proper terminology and show respect or they will be removed and see how that goes? "YOU ARE DONE!" might be a double edged sword.
Yep.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Financial literacy can easily be incorporated into math classes. By teaching financial literacy you give students the ability to use real life to improve their mathematic performance.

I could go on with reasons why it should be taught in school, things like; by the time children are old enough to understand it they are bogged down with homework from 5 other classes; by teaching children math skills they can use in real life they don't have problems with "summer slide" and the standard 3 months of review at the beginning of the school year can be shortened or eliminated; it covers all the bases of basic arithmetic including percents, fractions, decimals and story problems.

The subject is supposedly covered in Ohio. We were given the basic concepts when I was in school.

But some people will always believe that useful math has no place in the schools.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Free Financial Literacy Lesson Plans for High School Teachers


InCharge.org provides 14 free financial literacy lesson plans including Powerpoint Presentations, PDF workbooks, & student worksheets for high school teachers.




www.incharge.org





There are even study guides so this is being done other places.


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## cjennmom (Sep 4, 2010)

I remember that part of one of my high school classes we had a day to act as the stock market. It basically gave us all pieces of paper to represent goods and cash and the person who came out with the most at the end was the “winner”. No goals, no guidance, just turning us loose with a “have at it”. It was very confusing and didn’t really teach us anything. Nothing like balancing a check book or paying bills was seen at all.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

No need to balance a check book anymore for most. Their debit card works or it does not. Thats about as far as they go with budgets……


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