# Rabbit w/lump on chin



## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

Hi folks! I have a bit of a medical problem going on with one of our doe rabbits and I was wondering if any experienced rabbit breeders could help me out!

The Rabbit;









Kibbles is a standard Otter Rex. She is pedigreed and is going to be one year very shortly. She comes from a very well-known rabbitry in the area and comes from well-producing lines. She has had two litters, one of five kits, all raised successful and one of twelve, ten of which are still with us and have just begun leaving the nest.

The Problem;









Sorry about the terrible shot but it was the best I could do on short notice. Her nose is pointing up and right to reach the greens (dandelions) and the white marking extend around her jaw bones.
This is a picture of a large lump under her chin, perhaps the size of a large marble. It is fairly centered but is more on her left than not. It has no fur on it and a couple of tiny but healthy looking scabs where I think she may have caught it while itching. Otherwise the skin is normal, not flaky or strange in any other way.
The lump itself is fairly firm (not like a rock, but definitely not squishy) and feels loose under the skin. It moves freely between the skin and her jaw. It does not seem to bother her at all when I touch it and she's a skittish rabbit. 
The lump is a recent development. I give my bunnies a very thorough health exam before breeding (six weeks ago) and two weeks ago I had her on her back to try to force-nurse her two runty kits (which didn't make it) and didn't notice anything but it was night so it could have been there but small.

Condition/History;
I thought it might be a tooth issue but it's not connected to the bone. Her front teeth look to be doing OK. They are even, clean, no visible gaps, no movement, not too long. I regularly give her rose branches to chew on, and she eats large quantities of orchard and timothy hays.
Additionally she eats lots of fresh greens and Purina Professional 18% feed.

When we first got her we quarantined her for six weeks in my garage. During this time she did just fine, but when she was taken outside to play on the grass she would start sneezing. I was worried about it maybe being snuffles, but after six weeks with no incident and her only sneezing significantly while outdoors I figured she probably had allergies. We had extremely high pollen count this year. Even the dogs were sneezing.
Now with summer in full swing her sneezes are only occasional and none of the other three rabbits she is housed around have issues, nor do my pet rabbits indoors or any of the kits I've had from her or any other litter.

She has no discharge from her nose, mouth or eyes and never has. Aside from this lump she's fit as a fiddle.


Thoughts?

Is this an abscess? She seems to young for cancer or a lipoma. Is this some form of Pasturella? I have heard that can cause lumps, but it is normally contagious and deadly, and the lumps are normally nasty open sores. This is clean and pristine for being a big lump on her chin. She's been housed in a wood and wire hutch with three other rabbits for five months and no other issues.

There's no local rabbit vets around worth their salt and she's a meat breeder so spending $150+ on tests and a draining is not realistic. I'd hate to have her suffer or have to cull such a great rabbit from my herd. Can I drain or remove this myself? Do you think this is even an abscess? Is it a cyst? Experienced opinions would be greatly appreciated!


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

Abscesses are not uncommon with rabbits. They have scent glands under their chins and they rub their chins on things. Sometimes the glands get infected. When you can touch the lump and the rabbit doesn't jump, not tender to the touch, that's a sign its an abscess. We lance the skin over the abscesses and squeeze out the light colored pasty stuff inside and flush with peroxide. Just keep it clean the usually it heals up. Sometimes on dark colored rabbit white hairs will grow up over the scar area which would be a disqualification in show. We once had an American Blue develop an abscess on the muzzle under the whisker bed. We cleaned it up and she healed. No white hairs! Which was good because we registered her for show and breeding. So we have had successes with abscesses. On the other hand we had one buck with abscess that looked like a dewlap. When we tried to touch it he would jump like it hurt. So we bonked him. We examined the lump and was fibrous and had veins in it. I think you have a good chance at cure and recovery. Have a good day!


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

I agree with RabbitGeek that it is probably an abscess. This time of year a swelling could also be something like a spider bite, but I think in that case the rabbit would react when you touched the spot.


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

I would think a spider bite would be red and inflamed which this is not. So probably an abscess then.

A lot of the websites I read suggesting the use of an antibiotic such as batryl or combipen because abscesses in rabbts can be very hard to be rid of. In fact any time an abscess happens and an animal gets taken to a vet they use antibiotics. Would you recommend doing that for this rabbit? (With probiotic powder in the water to help maintain gut flora of course.) Also what about numbing the location/preventing pain? I can get a bottle of 2% Lidocaine for $10 (which would last me forever), and I have combipen here so it'd be nice if I could use that.

Also, when you cut open the lump, how do you control the rabbit? And do you close it up after with stitches or butterflies, or do you leave it open?

Just trying to figure out exactly how I'm going to do this and making sure I have all the info. Thanks so much for the help! She gave me quite a scare with this thing suddenly popping out of her chin!


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

Some of the bunnies just sat there for the procedure. Others we wrapped with a towel (bunny burrito) to control the legs. We just left it open and cleaned it daily. Other people do it differently. We used an exacto knife blade to open. 
Have good day!


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## Ellendra (Jul 31, 2013)

No experience with bunnies, but my cat gets lumps like that all the time. The first two times, we took her to the vet and were told it was just cat acne. Who knew?

Once a week or so I flip the cat over and check her chin. She doesn't like it, but she's getting used to it. I try to remove blackheads before they get infected, and drain the ones that do get infected. But sometimes I have to wait until it's "ready", the scabs are a good indicator that it's ready to drain.


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

XD This is definitely not acne. Acne never gets marble sized. If it's marble sized it's a growth, cyst, abscess, infection or something like that. And in any case, the skin is smooth.

Cats and rabbits are very different.


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

Never mind, I can't get the lidocaine at all. The website decided to tell me this only AFTER I signed up for an account of course. And the other website actually sells it but doesn't ship it to Ohio. Fooey.

Anything I can use to numb the area or am I going for an ice pack and a stick between the teeth method here?


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

Ice pack for you or the rabbit? We never used lidocaine or other anesthetic.


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## BlueRose (Mar 7, 2013)

Where you able to remove the 'lump'? How is your doe doing this morning?


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## d'vash (Apr 25, 2013)

A local rabbit producer told be about using honey to treat an abscess. He cut open the abscess, cleaned it out very well and applied medical-grade honey for its anti-fungal, anti-bacerial, anti-viral properties. I am quite sure the honey was on gauze, and taped or wraped and pinned into place over the open wound. 

If the abscess isn't cleaned out of all puss extremly well, it will return.


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

Rose; Since she has kits on her right now I don't want to treat quite yet. I want to be able to isolate her for treatment, not have an open would harassed by kits. And I may be using antibiotics to make sure it doesn't come back, so as long as it's not bothering her much or growing too fast I will let it sit until I can wean the kits. 

Golden; I have heard about using honey for a lot of rabbit things, and I'm not a big believer. There's no hard evidence for me to examine to determine effectiveness, it's not a common treatment, and the potential downsides are quite bad. So I don't want to use honey for my rabbit's treatment.


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## SherryB (Oct 10, 2012)

So nothing to numb the area before cutting with the exacto knife? How big of a place do you cut-just enough to open it up?


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

Sherry, I'm still working on getting Lidocaine, a rabbit safe injectable local that will last me forever for $10. If that fails an ice pack for a good long while will numb it up at least some. I've heard some rabbits can die of shock if you cut into them without numbing of some sort, and if I can get the lidocaine it's so cheap why wouldn't I use it? Espcially since Kibbles is a crazy rabbit.

I watched a video of a draining of one very similar to this recently and it looked like a small incision, maybe a centimeter long on a BIG abscess. So small I'd think, as small as you can to make sure you drain it and flush it? Does that sound right, folks who have done this?


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## aart (Oct 20, 2012)

Golden Affinity said:


> A local rabbit producer told be about using honey to treat an abscess. He cut open the abscess, cleaned it out very well and applied _*medical-grade honey *_for its anti-fungal, anti-bacerial, anti-viral properties. I am quite sure the honey was on gauze, and taped or wraped and pinned into place over the open wound.
> 
> If the abscess isn't cleaned out of all puss extremly well, it will return.


Never heard of medical grade honey....what makes it medical grade and where can you get it?


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## justa hobby (Apr 1, 2013)

This may be a T.M.I. moment but there is a hemorrhoid cream called Nupercainal, It contains a topical analgesic that I have also used for very bad burns. It says on the label you can use it for that and other skin thing as well. I have never had your experience but this is just a thought. If I were in your shoes I would use it for that BUT PLEASE, I am only offering it as an alternative to you since Lidocaine is an issue to get. Hope this helps.


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

Thanks, Hobby! If I can get the Lidocaine I will be using it. If I can't I will look into your suggestion. How powerful is it?

Lidocaine also exists as an external analgesic... Over the counter in aloe vera gel! But the injectable form is only legal without prescription in certain states. 

Is your stuff stronger than a good aloe gel? It might be worth looking into if I can't get what I want to use.


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## justa hobby (Apr 1, 2013)

Yes it is stronger. Oh boy, how to keep this from another T.M.I. moment.... I drove a truck for 15 years and found Nupercainal from the suggestion of a pharmacist. When my 2 kids were babies and had diaper rash my wife & I would mix this with the rash ointment and babies would be relieved in no time. The active ingredient is DIBUCAINE,you can look it up at www.drugs.com. Good luck.


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

Ha. XD If it gets me the info I need I will take as much TMI as is delivered! I will very much look into it. Thanks so much! If I can't get the lidocaine I will probably use that.


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## redneckswife (May 2, 2013)

Chocolate, just keep in mind that a rabbit grooms like a cat and if internal ingestion of this hemorrid cream is toxic or safe.

As far as medical-grade honey goes, my dad's a beekeeper and we've never heard of medical grade. I have used the honey method on drained abcesses on another animal and it seemed to speed up recovery of open area, However, once again, rabbits would lick the honey & ingest to much sugar content for a rabbit which in turn gives an upset gut.

Treat it like you would an abcess or boil on a human(complete & thorough drainage to prevent reformation).

BTW, your rabbit is beauuutifulllll !!
Good luck with solving her issue.


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

Redneckswife; I'm assuming I could gently wash the cream off with soap and water, it's probably not going to be non removable, but that's a great point.

On a human the abscess would get a local and then be cut into, drained and washed, stitched with a tube and oral antibiotics. I don't think I can do that with a rabbit, quite. They don't take medicine as prescribed and apparently local anestetics are nigh on impossible to get!

Thanks for the compliment on her! I'll pass it on. She's quite nice and I hope to keep her around a long time! Thanks again!


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## moptop159 (Dec 4, 2011)

Well if I get this problem I will wrap up my rabbit in a towel. Lightly and quickly make a small cut in the top of the abscess with an exacto or razor and see if goo starts to come out. Maybe give a little squeeze and see. If no goo I'd cut a little deeper. When I got it to drain I'd drain out as much goo as I could. Wash with warm water. If I though I might have cut too deep I would dress it twice a day with Colloidal Silver. I make it , it' cheap for me. I'd try to get it on her twice a day. The Silver would just be as a just in case.

I have had abscesses myself. A boil is an abscess and isn't an abscess a lot like a giant pimple? A point of infection under the skin producing fluids and creating pressure and there by pain.

When you go to the Dr. for a boil he lances it. Same is true for Dental Abscesses. I think the Dentist gave me anti-biotics because he wanted to get the tooth out, but the DR. did not. And nether of them gave me any thing for numbing. Yea it hurt a little.

Just trying to help. :cowboy:

If I were going to do this myself, and not go to a vet, I would try to do it as clean, fast, painless, and unemotional as I could.

I also know things (animals, plants, PPL) heal quite well on there own with love.


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

Thanks! As soon as I can get the kits off of mom I will be lancing it... I still think I want some sort of numbing agent, even just a lot of ice, because she's crazy and aint gonna hold still nicely for something that doesn't hurt, let alone that does. But I will have extra hands and I hope it turns out OK.


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## BlueRose (Mar 7, 2013)

Please keep us posted. How long until you wean her babies?


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

They were just two weeks when I posted this. They're three now. I like to wean at five-six weeks, but I will probably wean sooner because of mom's abscess for these ones. On the other hand... It's not bothering her at all and I've been keeping a close eye on it; it's not gotten any bigger that I can see. So I may just wait.

I will definitely keep you folks posted on when I wean and how it goes, and I may try to take pictures for both this and my blog. I think there are other people that need to know how to do this that don't yet, so maybe my experiences will help someone.


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## BlueRose (Mar 7, 2013)

Yes it will. The more we learn the better we can take care of our animals


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## dragonjaze (Sep 8, 2010)

What about orajel? dab some on the skin, should numb it enough. Will wear off quickly, but shouldn't take too long to lance and drain.


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

So, I was all set to lance her cyst this week. I had taken away her kits early, and I isolated her, etc.
Right around my last post she ended up with weepy eye and I just said "Screw it" loaded the cage's water and food with probiotics and gave her the terramycin ointment for her weepy eye.

When I went to lance her cyst it had shrunk. It had shrunk from the size of a big green grape down to the size of a champagne grape, or a large pea maybe.

We've decided to just treat with anti and probotics and moniter her. If it goes away all the way; great! If it comes back; we'll lance it.


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## KnittAddiction (Sep 19, 2016)

Hey, I am new to the forum and I was searching for information and I made my way here. I read everything above and found it very helpful! I have a male rabbit w a lump/abcess on his chin, and I am reluctant to lance it yet... It came on rather suddenly and hasn't seemed to dissipate on it's own this week... I have experience with this, we used to have a goat that would get them and we had to drain them, it is a nasty job. So I am looking to take a calmer route, but with caution as well!

Can anyone tell me the best place to get OTC antibiotics and a safe probiotic for him? I want to try that before I go slicing into him.. He is a PET, and he lives outside... But he is a lover and I don't want to traumatize him and have him go nutty on me or be scared of me afterwards. I already examined him and didn't find any other issues that could cause it w teeth or anything either. I will of course examine it again before I go treating it willy-nilly also.
We do have a Cal-Ranch, Tractor Supply and a couple of decent, locally owned feed stores nearby that I can look at... But I know bunny stomachs are sensitive and I don't want to mess him up w just anything! 

It is that or I start forking the mega bucks to the vet, and I just don't think this in an emergency... I really am trying to get to where we are vetting most things on our own, that aren't life or death or requiring major surgery! So one more thing under my belt, but I am willing to take a less traumatic approach on this guy. Thanks!


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

Hi, you can order Pen G injectible online. This is a rabbit safe antibiotic, easy to use and what I suggest. Use with care. Antibiotics are risky business every time.

https://www.jefferspet.com/products/pro-pen-g-injection-500-ml

But here is a whole page on various rabbit antibiotics and how to use them, including dosage. Learn how to dose medications appropriately by looking at the ratio printed on the bottle. A 3% formula can be used as a 1.5% formula if used in half dosage for example. Make sure you have the dosage correct.;
http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm

The best rabbit safe local anesthetic is Lidocaine. This is the stuff in burn gel. If you can find a 3% concentration spray, use it and it gets them fairly numb. You can use 5% but go easy with it. You can use just burn gel but it's much less effective. Still takes the edge off. I discovered this treating bot flies. Lidocaine is extremely well studied and safe for use on rabbits.

Probiotics are pretty similar across the board. I use these;
https://www.chewy.com/probios-dispersible-powder-dog-cat/dp/111146

The lump my rabbit had went away on it's own, so I can't offer further advice. It's 3 years later and I still have that same rabbit. She's still breeding with 8 kit litters and is about 5 years old now. What a great rabbit!

So take care, I'm not a vet, but I can say that these are absolutely rabbit safe medications that work well and served my needs.


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## KnittAddiction (Sep 19, 2016)

Awesome thanks for all the info! 
Incredibly, I am checking Stewy every day and his lump has gone down almost completely! I still REALLY appreciate the information though because I am sure it won't be the ONLY time I have something to take care of. 
So far over 3 or 4 years of rabbits, we have only had 1 major emergency of an unknown, overdue & miscarried/septic pregnancy, which I was happy to go to the vet for. But these kinds of things I think can be done at home... 

I hope that since it has gone down by itself, it points to him being healthy enough for his body to fight it off on his own. But I will check those links and order what is shelf-stable so that I am prepared ahead of time if anything else comes up. I rarely have an issue w these guys and pride myself in our bunns being so healthy, and I would love them to stay that way - I won't dose anybody without a REAL problem to address! 
Thank you so much!!!!


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## arachyd (Feb 1, 2009)

posted in wrong thread but it won't let me delete


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