# Gun rags.



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I myself do not waste my money on them. I am more of a Fur, Fish and Game person with a Varmint Hunting rag once in a great while. 

My brother in law on the other hand sucribes to a truck load of those things. He trades, then recycles a lot of them to me. 
Some I just automaticly remove th name and address label from them and put them in the recycle box. 
Conceled Carry, YUK I can not stand that waste of good paper.
Some thing like Wheel Gun Times another waste of good paper.

I used to in the 1960's liked Shooting Times but by the Late 1970's I got burnt out on the for ever latest and greatest that was only as good as the next issue.

During this sick cold spell and the cool weather I have been catching up with the rags he gave me at New Years.
I had about a half dozen shot gun news papers. Thumb thru a half dozen and didn't find one thing I wanted to read about. Rip the labels off and pitched them all in the recycle box.

Shooting times I used to like but after looking thru about a dozen I just ripped the label off them and pitched them into the recycle box.

How to use your lever gun for defence just doesn't make my boat float. 

The greatest shot gun made today is the tactal configured ones. What a bunch of crap. Good reading for city people to read and learn about. 

I really doubt there are very many rags for hunting on the market. OH YA, the Varmint rags are full of ads for black rifles from 22 cal to 308, and now a bunch of 9mm and 10 mm stuff. 
A coyote at 125 yards with a 10 MM, Yup use the whole 20 round clip and hope for a killing hit.

 Al


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

When I was growing up I liked the outdoor mags and learned a lot from them. Unfortunately, there is only so much material in their field. After about 3 years they start repeating themselves. I still read them for a while because I enjoyed articles by Corey Ford, Ted Trueblood, and Ed Zern. When they left so did I.

I also quit reading outdoor mags because many articles are not relevant to me. I am never going to fish wahoo in the Fiji Islands or hunt musk ox in Siberia.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

I used to subscribe to several outdoor magazine but no longer take any. I think the quality of the writers and the articles has really gone south, plus the magazines have too much advertising and not enough hunting / fishing stories. 

All of the major mags dedicate several months each year to all the latest and greatest gadgets. Outdoor Life or Field & Stream will have a 6-8 page article showing you all of the new ATV's for the year, or five pages of the hottest crossbows, etc. This is not what I buy a magazine like that for. I want to read hunting & fishing stories and see the accompanying photos.

Another factor is disposal of all of the old magazines. They're near impossible to burn with that slick printed paper.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I recycle them in th erecycle box. Go in with the plastic juice bottles and milk jugs and other paper and plastics. 

Every thursday it goes out to the road.
The trash is a seprate can on the other side of the drive and doesn't get picked up till near Noon.

 Al


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## Silvercreek Farmer (Oct 13, 2005)

I get American Hunter with my NRA membership. It is worth about one trip to the can. I usually cherry pick one article for my son to read. So much is online, there is no reason to kill trees anymore. I do appreciate well performed accuracy tests, lets me know I am in the ball park with a particular gun. So may reviews, both online and in print, sugar coat every gun they touch. There are a few reviewers that will tell the truth, but sneak it in as an afterthought at the end. Blows my mind how many Smiths, Rugers, Springfields, etc, that should be reputable, require a trip back to the factory for problems.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

The ones I used to get had good writers for guns and they for the most part wrote books that are really decent reads today.

Even when the hunting rags were decent I always wondered how those guys always harvested a huge monster buck. Never though of fenced in farms back then like now days.

Is about the same with the deer hunting TV shows.

 Al


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

alleyyooper said:


> I myself do not waste my money on them. I am more of a Fur, Fish and Game person with a Varmint Hunting rag once in a great while.
> 
> My brother in law on the other hand sucribes to a truck load of those things. He trades, then recycles a lot of them to me.
> Some I just automaticly remove th name and address label from them and put them in the recycle box.
> ...


I know most (ok, near half at least) of the current crop of gun writers, and can't disagree with you that real talent and knowledge is all too few and far-between. 

Some of my scariest days have been on ranges filled by gun writers. In reality, somewhere around half of these people are not the experienced experts that their job description might imply- most are just English-majors who fell into a gun job (which, upon reflection, is my resume as well, so I'll set that stone back down) 

A lot of modern gun journalism might not be for the older-school amongst us since, as with most category-print, a lot of the writing has become centered around "lifestyle" marketing- which is exactly why you see articles on things like shooting coyotes at 110y with a 10mm. A lot of people get into the performance of modern firearms, and they want to read about things that help justify the purchase of their specialized firearms. It's no different than most modern fishing, woodworking, or... country living magazines. 

All that said, there are some truely knowledgeable gun writers out there. Their particular expertise might not appeal to @alleyyooper , but Tom Beckstrand, Sean Utley, Brian McCombie, Rob Curtis, Kat Ainsworth, Pat Sweeney and a bunch of others are putting out genuinely informative articles that SOMEONE is dying to read. 

It's not all fluff. Take Candice Horner, for just one example. She writes a lot of sniper rifle articles, and is married to a former Army Marksmanship Unit champ. That alone might make you question her authenticity-by-proxy, unless you were aware that she'd actually trained up to compete in (and win) a couple sniper competitions with her husband. She actually knows what she's talking about... and can write- a critical combination for a subjectmatter author. 

I don't have a choice but to stay abreast of those peoples work, and have had to learn to take the good with the bad- but there is definitely some good out there.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Gun rags.


I thought this was going to be about old T-shirts and underwear.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I thought this was going to be about old T-shirts and underwear.


I was on the same tangent supposing the subject was going to be cleaning supplies.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Just went thru a Shot Gun news my brother in law gave to me. Enough black rifle adds to choke a goat. Air guns for surviveal and one shot gun artical in the whole nearly half inch rag.

think that one is a automatic chuck in the recucle box too.

 Al


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

alleyyooper said:


> Just went thru a Shot Gun news my brother in law gave to me. Enough black rifle adds to choke a goat. Air guns for surviveal and one shot gun artical in the whole nearly half inch rag.
> 
> think that one is a automatic chuck in the recucle box too.
> 
> Al



I hear you. I'm not real fond of where the firearms industry is going with black and colored plastic "tactical looking" firearms outselling conventional stuff by a long shot. When the day comes that the majority of hunters are running around the woods with AR style rifles, thing I'll just quit hunting. It's getting hard to even find a wood stocked, blued finish firearm at most of the mainstream retailers.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I won't stop hunting but will hiunt private property where I know who is hunting the place while I am.

I am so glad my group of varmint hunters like the wood stock blued barrels rifles.

Ya one day even the used rifle will be black rifles and they get banned some one is going to get burned.
Don't say it can't happen either because it had been once.

 Al


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

While I support the Second Amendment unconditionally, I am enough of a traditionalist that even my "black rifle" needs are met by an M1A wearing walnut.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

There is plenty of market and gun rag for everyone.

selling ever more black rifles , poly guns and tactical gun is good for all of us , it is reaching new gun owners and making them more likely to stand up for their rights.

the hunter and traditional shooter makes up such a tiny portion of the market , CCW , tactical , 3 gun , any legitimate reason a person can have to be a gun owner is a good one.

figure there are 20-50 millions AR type rifles add in standard capacity semi auto handguns and your looking at another 60-90 million these are some rough guessed based on sales and years of availability.

lets be careful not to toss any gun owner with any legitimate reason for owning a gun under the bus . the second amendment and personal protection is the most legitimate of reasons and all any one needs. 


dislike any publication you like , it may not be your cup of tea or anything that gets you excited but it doesn't make it bad just not your genre. you don't have to like all music either.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Ya right, Wonder we won WWII with out all those stupid GI's that never had a chance to use a black rifle before going to war.

Not a fan of spray and pray at all. 

 Al


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

alleyyooper said:


> Ya right, Wonder we won WWII with out all those stupid GI's that never had a chance to use a black rifle before going to war.
> 
> Not a fan of spray and pray at all.
> 
> Al


The same could be said for the Revolution. At the end of the day, part of freedom is being able to go with your own preferences.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

alleyyooper said:


> Ya right, Wonder we won WWII with out all those stupid GI's that never had a chance to use a black rifle before going to war.
> 
> Not a fan of spray and pray at all.
> 
> Al


Black rifles are not just about “spray and pray”. Far from it, in fact. If you consider how and why they evolved, they’re actually attractive for a lot of reasons. 

The ergonomics and controls are intuitive in a way that is unmatched by any other conventional design. The features that make them ideal for training soldiers are the same things that make them great all-purpose rifles for young and/or new shooters. 

The design that result in them being great for battlefield sustainability result in a modularity that no other type of rifle can offer. Someone who is interested in a centerfire rifle, but is unsure of where the sport might take them, can buy a basic model off the rack for $400 or so, and, if their goals change as they start to become more familiar with rifle shooting, they can reconfigure that same rifle to suit whatever they want to do. 

With a few basic tools, and a few YouTube videos, that $400 rifle can be turned into a legitimate top-notch competition rifle, an effective home defense weapon, or even a very capable medium-large game rifle. Heck, with a few separate upper assemblies, it can be switched between all three in a matter of seconds. 



Fishindude said:


> ...When the day comes that the majority of hunters are running around the woods with AR style rifles, thing I'll just quit hunting.


I do most of my deer hunting with a suppressed .300 Black Out, generally with 5rd magazines because they’re easier to carry. 

What about that rig do you find offensive? How many rounds does your deer rifle hold?



Fishindude said:


> ...It's getting hard to even find a wood stocked, blued finish firearm at most of the mainstream retailers.


From the manufacturer’s perspective, that’s not surprising. Wood stocks and black-oxide finishes are less than ideal for firearms use, and the combination is falling out of favor for purely economic reasons. 

Black-oxide is not very durable, or corrosion resistant. Really the only thing is has going for it is that it is cheap. Though not even the cheapest- that has to go to mang-phos (Parkerizing), which is way more corrosion resistant than black-ox.

Wood, on the other hand, is really expensive, but terrible from a material selection standpoint. It’s relatively weak, subject to degradation with exposure to gun lube, and changes dimensions with changes in temperature and humidity. Many shooters today just aren’t willing to pay the significant cost premium for an inferior product. 

You’d see more wood/blues guns in stores if that was what more buyers wanted these days. We’ll roll them however the shooting public wants to smoke them.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

you have to ask whats not to like about a gun that you can work on yourself with a small bag of tools and turn out consistent MOA accuracy , you can literally build them at your dining room table.

I have done a few at the dining room table 
haven't had one yet I couldn't get to shoot well.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> you have to ask whats not to like about a gun that you can work on yourself with a small bag of tools and turn out consistent MOA accuracy , you can literally build them at your dining room table.
> 
> I have done a few at the dining room table
> haven't had one yet I couldn't get to shoot well.


From what I have read of your posts, you are in the top 10% of the class. 90% are not. Then there is the element of personal preference.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

we just need to get them to an Appleseed so that they can learn to shoot and get them thinking about becoming better citizen.

you can run what ever you like I shoot bolt actions with wood stocks also.

just be careful not to sell out black gun enthusiasts , because as soon as the black guns are gone they will be there for your blued steel and walnut. why because they all shoot and they just can't live with the idea of you being able to shoot. they just think it is black and standard capacity magazines right now.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

my dad is rocking the 300 black out , retired now he is all busted up from years of manual labor multiple fusions in his back and neck and a major shoulder overhaul that didn't go so well.

can't say he ever even considered a black gun until I had him try an AR he tried it twice once in 223 and once in 300 after trying the 300 the next week he ordered all the parts to build one identical to mine and it has been turning out MOA groups since day one even with some factory ammo. 

he has taken deer 2 years in a row one shot each he plants them with the neck shot and 110gr v-max , he likes the 10 round p-mags they stick out just enough to get a grip on but not to far to be in the way at all. it is a 300 black out pistol.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I also shoot the other black rifle , it is wood and browned steel and I feed it a steady diet of holy black and patched round ball.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

I'm a lifetime NRA member, all about preserving the second amendment and own several AR's but to me they are for personal protection or just plinking. They were set up and built to be lightweight, high capacity battle rifles, not hunting rifles. Sure you could hunt with an AR, but you can also chisel wood with a screw driver, but that doesn't make it a chisel. About the first time one of my buddies jumps in the truck to go hunting carrying an AR, I'll probably just get out and go my own way.

Probably just kind of set in my ways on these opinions. Not apt to change anytime soon 

*
*


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I don't agree with your chisel vs screw driver analogy.

that analogy places 2 tools one a twisting tool the other a cutting tool against each other.

there is hardly a hunting rifle today that didn't get it's design from a military arm most of the bolt action rifles we shoot today borrow heavily or outright copy the Mauser 1898 design. 

if identical energy and caliber from 1 round arrives perfectly on target at 100 yards dropping the deer where it stood. why does it matter what rifle sent the bullet the 30-30 lever action or the 300 black out AR.

you trust the hunter to be safe in the woods with you or you don't , there is nothing inherently less safe about an AR in competent hands than there is a model 94 Winchester.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I had my fill of those rifles in SE Asia when they took my good old trusty pick it out of a muddy paddy and keep on shooting M14 away. Then the plastic crap we were forced to use had to keep the cleaning rod rubberbanded to it handy to unjam the pieace of crap. Spend any time your not tramping in the mud S*** and grit polishing the rounds so hopefully you would not get a jam.

Ya I know when they first started making cars they had problems with them and people keep buying them. But they had no choice that is all they had there was no tried and proven wood with blued steel that worked to chose from.

I don't care if people want those black rifles, but they can have them till they jump in the truck with one to go hunting with me.
No thank you bub not going hunting with you today or any time you want to carry that ugly thing.

 Al


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Black rifles are not just about “spray and pray”. Far from it, in fact. If you consider how and why they evolved, they’re actually attractive for a lot of reasons.
> 
> The ergonomics and controls are intuitive in a way that is unmatched by any other conventional design. The features that make them ideal for training soldiers are the same things that make them great all-purpose rifles for young and/or new shooters.
> 
> ...


Agree 100%

It took me a while to appreciate the AR, and that was only after I retired from the Army. I've now built a couple and have come to appreciate the versatility AND accuracy depending on the build quality and components. I've got 6 of them now, everything from a .22LR trainer to my 3Gun rig. Tuesday night we had our quarterly IDPA carbine match and probably 60% of the guns there were AR9s. 

I've still got some wood & blued steal hunting and match guns: Steyr's and my BPCR Single shots, but you won't see me afield with a rifle that's not wearing a synthetic stock and a more durable finish. Anything I have that requires precision either wears synthetic or is in a chassis.


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## outgunu (Sep 14, 2006)

Gun magazines have gone the same direction as a lot of the homesteading magazines - basically they all run about the same articles and if you check, many of them are owned by the same huge companies. As far as guns them selves, I like MSR's just as well as I like old school. My 300 BO AR, doesn't put things down as hard as my 35 Rem 336 does, but it is a lot handier in the swamp due to it's 10 inch barrel, short brace for a rear stock and red dot sight. Guns are like females, all sizes and shapes - most are pretty enjoyable, but I prefer a select few...


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

Chuck and Alleyyooper, 
Thank you for your service! As far as gun periodicals are concerned, most are just touts for the firearms industry and gear manufacturers. The only one I enjoy is Dave Petzel at Field & Stream. Phil Bourjouly is good also.


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