# Certificate of Occupancy



## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

I was interested in a rural property with a couple of cabins on it, has water, electric and according to the description 2 septic lines. It is being sold by private owner after it had previously been listed through a realtor. When I googled the property it said a Cert. of Occupancy would be required to live there full time.
I'm assuming the town would need to do an inspection and what would determine if it is granted or not? Also, any idea of cost? And any way to get around this?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

You need to find out what government entity is requiring this.


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## Solar Geek (Mar 14, 2014)

More likely a county Cert. of Occupancy just as they usually run the county-wide state building codes. WI has state building codes (a minimum) and all counties or self rule municipalities may add more stringent requirements on top. 

Don't assume it will be an easy maneuver. 
Here, when you sell/buy, you have to dot every "i" and cross every "t" with current codes unless you are a legacy farm family.


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## ticndig (Sep 7, 2014)

I've ran across buildings like that . the ones I looked at were built without a permit. 
now how in the world can an inspector see what's in the walls and below ground level
at this point . the owner was being cheap and now will pay the price.
what you're looking at is a camp . I would spend my money elsewhere ..


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

One of the closest homes to the burned out property didn't have the occupancy permit. The home was built with permits, but was never quite finished upstairs, and never got the final inspection. The home burned down over the summer, but the owner fortunately had insurance on the place. He isn't sure if he even wants to rebuild, because some of the codes and requirements here are outright ridiculous, not to mention expensive. 

It was a beautiful home, custom built 2.5 story with huge timbers. Truly one of a kind, I always did admire his place.


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## Esteban29304 (Apr 29, 2003)

&& it may have had living space added at some time, without permits, inspections, etc. I would not put any money down on it , til that was settled !


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## Qwertyuiop (Feb 20, 2018)

Make it part if the contract that the seller obtains the certificate.


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## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

The owner said the residence was just under the square footage required and for some reason he didn't get a permit for a small cabin. Weirdly enough, he's been living there for 5 years without incident..


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Don't believe a darn thing he says. He is selling you a pig in a poke.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Go see the people they can pull the plug on the place ask them what the situation is and what they would like you to do to fix it


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

moonspinner said:


> I was interested in a rural property with a couple of cabins on it, has water, electric and according to the description 2 septic lines. It is being sold by private owner after it had previously been listed through a realtor. When I googled the property it said a Cert. of Occupancy would be required to live there full time.
> I'm assuming the town would need to do an inspection and what would determine if it is granted or not? Also, any idea of cost? And any way to get around this?


If able, I would drag the local building inspector down to see the cabins. Then you would know, definitively, what needs doing (if anything at all). 
My local inspector is easy to work with, and would be helpful in ascertaining what needs doing. 
He may tell you they are below inspection limit...


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## Esteban29304 (Apr 29, 2003)

A lot of info here;

https://www.dos.ny.gov/dcea/pdf/Part1202.pdf


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## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

Alice, I did find out the owner was truthful about being a full-time resident the past 5 years. I don't get how he's been able to get away with not being cited for infractions. The place has been assessed several times and nothing has been changed since 2013. When this was listed by realtor it clearly states the buyer needs the occupancy cert. for permanent living.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yes. I am sure he lived there. 

That truth has NOTHING to do with if the building can pass inspection and get the paperwork you need.


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## ticndig (Sep 7, 2014)

building inspections are done in phases , not just after the building is completed . there is no way to inspect what is in the wall at this time . save your time and money and look elsewhere.


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## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

I will contact the building inspector next week. Part time/"recreational" use is permitted though I'm unsure of exactly what kind of time frame can be proven. I usually think of septic issues in these cases. Anyway, I'm anxious to see what this is about. And yes, I'm not in for headaches so I will be ready to move on.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Unless you have a pressing reason, I would look farther out or in another state...….I will never buy property that needs those types of rules and inspections again......no way.


I understand the states and locations might rule these out as a option for most, but if it does not......look hard and long to find codeless areas, it is well worth it.


2 things you can never get away from is septic, but there are work arounds and a well, but there are work arounds. Both require licensed and inspections....some places will let owner builder do septic, every where has a licensed well driller required.

But both can be worked around in various ways......some places allow composting toilets and or other non conventional systems that require no permit or inspection.

With water, where and when possible, rain systems require no inspection, surface springs, weep pits or water hauled in and in a lot of cases ground water wells 25 feet or so that can be driven by the owner are exempt....


Then you have the grey areas.....a area where technically a septic needs permits and inspection,as that's a federal thing, but there is no local enforcement and no one cares what you do...….


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

ShannonR said:


> One of the closest homes to the burned out property didn't have the occupancy permit. The home was built with permits, but was never quite finished upstairs, and never got the final inspection. The home burned down over the summer, but the owner fortunately had insurance on the place. He isn't sure if he even wants to rebuild, because some of the codes and requirements here are outright ridiculous, not to mention expensive.
> 
> It was a beautiful home, custom built 2.5 story with huge timbers. Truly one of a kind, I always did admire his place.


He is very luck that he was able to insure it if he was living in it illegally. The structure would be covered, as is any insured construction project, but personal property could have been excluded.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

My remedy would be to find a people friendly place to live. One that doesn't require certificates of occupancy.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

moonspinner said:


> Part time/"recreational" use is permitted though I'm unsure of exactly what kind of time frame can be proven.


Utility usage, mailing addresses, tax bills, etc.


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## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

With all those "watchdogs" I can't see how the owner managed to never get caught all those years!


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

moonspinner said:


> With all those "watchdogs" I can't see how the owner managed to never get caught all those years!


Ha, I used to wholeheartedly agree with that...wasn't long ago we didn't need a police state. Our neighbors covered that base well. And the official watchdogs were on the prowl. Mind you, they only acted on what they could see.
Now, from what I see in my hood, I'd have to say that era is over, with a thud. Vacancy rates are, for all intents and purposes, in negative territory around here. Business minded homesteaders are renting out spots in their yard for RV'ers (basically anything with four walls and a roof). Their yards have these eclectic RV's scattered all over in willy-nilly fashion. Every week, I see another RV sprout up. Unlike a RV park, where there is some order, these unofficial RV parks are a sight. I find myself driving slowly through these hoods out of curiosity....lol. I see them because these sites are in the lowlands, where the land is flat and foliage is sparse (an arterial road runs right through them). 
Officials are not keen to cause a fuss because we are in the midst of a colossal housing crisis. At any rate, these folks have nowhere to go. I just read a news article that in the big city, a family had to tent in a city park for a few weeks because they couldn't find a place to stay when they got evicted (owner of suite wanted it for a family member). Last summer I met a youngin who was tenting in the woods with a friend because they had no place to stay. 

I have never seen anything like this, in my life. These are not hippy communes. It is like house building stopped (it hasn't), but the people kept coming. Every local municipal election in the whole province has one hot button issue, housing. The rule about having an occupancy permit has been quietly buried (the last thing officials want to do is stir up the hornets nest). I don't have one yet...albeit, it wouldn't take much to get a temp occupancy permit (I'm feeling lazy right now). Nobody is breathing down my neck, and I suspect, nobody will. 

Curious to know what it is like across the continent?


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> My remedy would be to find a people friendly place to live. One that doesn't require certificates of occupancy.


 Exactly....


I just called the building permit place to check the laws on some property I am looking at. The kind lady, much like a grandma when a child wants to help, but is unable ….replied with, Awe hon, there are no building codes here outside of the city limits, but isn't that sweet you called to get permission.

Pretty much 2 things from my calling and doing has found....

Licensed well driller to drill the well, hit or miss if you need a permit.
Septic system permit, hit or miss if they even care, some places they simply want notice of location, no inspection per say. Some places do not care at all.


The inverse of this is where they require a permit for even fixing a fence or changing landscaping...…..choose where you live carefully based on what you like. Some people love the HOA that will keep people from using a un approved color on their house, others like the idea of no rules...….


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

shawnlee said:


> Awe hon, there are no building codes here outside of the city limits, but isn't that sweet you called to get permission.


Priceless....


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## jr23 (Sep 3, 2013)

any time you make offers on property and something like this comes up put the requirement in a clause
A *contingency clause* is a contract provision that requires a specific event or action to take place in order for the contract to be considered valid. this way if the occupancy inspection is failed or major cost involved in complying to get the occ permit you can back out and get deposit back demand that be in recognised escrow 
the town outside philly required a inspection 100 bucks they find some things but if the seller did not fix items found the town failed to do anything . the answer from town counclemen was what do you want for a hundred in othere words it was a tax. but other town will fine the new owner. i in fl and they want permits for so many things 110 for a door that cost 150 but follow most reasonable codes that trades came up with water sewer electrical for your own safety but the last 15 to 20 have gotten crazy and especally areas that unions have pull or towns are trying to make homes expensive.
since the more it cost to build the more tax the town will collect and waste


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## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

I called the building inspector and it was quite curious. He knew the owner really well and knew exactly what the infractions were. He had necessary permits for the cabin/sheds but the cabin had to be much larger for residency. Also his septic was under code. The inspector told me adamantly you could not live there and even part time. He thought the owner was just using the place to occasionally ride ATVs or have fun. He said all the times he drove by he did not see a car, and that no neighbor ever complained. I was still confused as to why he couldn't submit a violation on the septic. I mean the owner used this as his address, got mail there, etc. for 5 years! Did they not have a clue from that?
Of course, I totally backed away from consideration.


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

melli said:


> Ha, I used to wholeheartedly agree with that...wasn't long ago we didn't need a police state. Our neighbors covered that base well. And the official watchdogs were on the prowl. Mind you, they only acted on what they could see.
> Now, from what I see in my hood, I'd have to say that era is over, with a thud. Vacancy rates are, for all intents and purposes, in negative territory around here. Business minded homesteaders are renting out spots in their yard for RV'ers (basically anything with four walls and a roof). Their yards have these eclectic RV's scattered all over in willy-nilly fashion. Every week, I see another RV sprout up. Unlike a RV park, where there is some order, these unofficial RV parks are a sight. I find myself driving slowly through these hoods out of curiosity....lol. I see them because these sites are in the lowlands, where the land is flat and foliage is sparse (an arterial road runs right through them).
> Officials are not keen to cause a fuss because we are in the midst of a colossal housing crisis. At any rate, these folks have nowhere to go. I just read a news article that in the big city, a family had to tent in a city park for a few weeks because they couldn't find a place to stay when they got evicted (owner of suite wanted it for a family member). Last summer I met a youngin who was tenting in the woods with a friend because they had no place to stay.
> 
> ...


Commiefornia is in rare form with their building requirements. Locally, even those of us who lost homes in the fires are required to get rebuild permits. No fee waivers due to disaster, hell no.... these bureaucratic jerks want to squeeze every last dollar you own out of you. Some of the most recent building codes (most notably built in sprinkler systems in houses) add about 20% tp the total cost of building a house. California has an epic housing crisis already, and i see more and more of my friends and neighbors opting not to rebuild at all due to lack of affordability, unreasonable requirements, and the government muck you have to wade through to rebuild here. It's at the point where a revolt would be very healthy for us... be interesting to see what happens when towns like Keswick (clamper hillbillies who can't afford to do it "right") go to rebuild.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

ShannonR said:


> Commiefornia is in rare form with their building requirements. Locally, even those of us who lost homes in the fires are required to get rebuild permits. No fee waivers due to disaster, hell no.... these bureaucratic jerks want to squeeze every last dollar you own out of you. Some of the most recent building codes (most notably built in sprinkler systems in houses) add about 20% tp the total cost of building a house. California has an epic housing crisis already, and i see more and more of my friends and neighbors opting not to rebuild at all due to lack of affordability, unreasonable requirements, and the government muck you have to wade through to rebuild here. It's at the point where a revolt would be very healthy for us... be interesting to see what happens when towns like Keswick (clamper hillbillies who can't afford to do it "right") go to rebuild.


I made it under the wire for sprinklers up here too. It soon will be mandatory on all homes I suspect. 
A news article suggested the fees for a new build add 26% to the total cost.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...d-up-to-26-tariff-on-new-home-costs-1.4842045
I bet it is more when one looks at the numbers more closely (add in time to get all the permits prepared and to file - I have to drive an hour one way to hand in permit). And in my case, I had to deal with water and septic fees, which city homes don't have to deal with. Some places have to deal with archeological and geo-tech fees, which I avoided. Another issue that has cropped up, is that provincial government has mandated all owner-builders pay $500 and take a test before they can build. That has caused a bit of a firestorm (lots of red tags on builds). The bizarre thing is the test has nothing to do with building qualifications, but with the new rules. 

They keep this up, we will have shanty towns sprouting up soon enough. We have tent cities already. They keep trying to dismantle them, but they keep popping up.


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## jr23 (Sep 3, 2013)

melli said:


> I made it under the wire for sprinklers up here too. It soon will be mandatory on all homes I suspect.
> A news article suggested the fees for a new build add 26% to the total cost.
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...d-up-to-26-tariff-on-new-home-costs-1.4842045
> I bet it is more when one looks at the numbers more closely (add in time to get all the permits prepared and to file - I have to drive an hour one way to hand in permit). And in my case, I had to deal with water and septic fees, which city homes don't have to deal with. Some places have to deal with archeological and geo-tech fees, which I avoided. Another issue that has cropped up, is that provincial government has mandated all owner-builders pay $500 and take a test before they can build. That has caused a bit of a firestorm (lots of red tags on builds). The bizarre thing is the test has nothing to do with building qualifications, but with the new rules.
> ...


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## jr23 (Sep 3, 2013)

read that one of the last bills moonbeam signed was all homes new or over 50% must have solar another major expense
not sure if its required to be grid tied. but cal solar max is about noon pacific time but demand is 5pm. and right now theirs a major excess of solar so much that the electric co has to pay net metering to homes but them pay other states to take the excess. one of many reasons the electric co went bankrupt. my plan off grid either buying a electric car used pack or build a power wall . and most commercial installers dont add on grid tied a switch to separate from grid so if grids down so is your solar .


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

jr23 said:


> read that one of the last bills moonbeam signed was all homes new or over 50% must have solar another major expense
> not sure if its required to be grid tied. but cal solar max is about noon pacific time but demand is 5pm. and right now theirs a major excess of solar so much that the electric co has to pay net metering to homes but them pay other states to take the excess. one of many reasons the electric co went bankrupt. my plan off grid either buying a electric car used pack or build a power wall . and most commercial installers dont add on grid tied a switch to separate from grid so if grids down so is your solar .


Yeah, it appears Vancouver wants to be net zero by 2030...hmmm, in a rainforest, that'll be interesting. Last time I looked, the utility has stopped grid tie buyback. With all the run-of-river projects, and site C under construction, BC is (or will be) awash in power (we are almost exclusively a hydro province). 
In a touch of irony, I was able to start my home build because utility needed to upgrade lines on my street, to supply the burgeoning grow-ops. Everything is grown in greenhouses around here, because gas is cheap, as is electricity.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

mml373 said:


> In my experience, a certificate of occupancy is pretty standard for a place where people plan to live.


Interesting. I'm 68 years old and have never seen such a document.


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## mml373 (May 2, 2017)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Interesting. I'm 68 years old and have never seen such a document.


I guess it depends where. Had to have one for the house I bought in the suburbs in Illinois years ago. "Suburbs" and "Illinois" being operative words in this case.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I was "told" by a commercial superintendent (friend) that I needed one before moving into my house. Never got one. Didn't worry about it.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

"And a CO is not just a signal for occupancy, despite its name. In most cases it also will be required before you can complete the mortgage process. Likewise, your homeowner’s insurance company may also require a CO".

Was wondering if a CO was needed for a mortgage since no one here spoke of it, so I looked it up. Thought so.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Ah. No mortgage here.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

moonspinner said:


> I was interested in a rural property with a couple of cabins on it, has water, electric and according to the description 2 septic lines. It is being sold by private owner after it had previously been listed through a realtor. When I googled the property it said a Cert. of Occupancy would be required to live there full time.
> I'm assuming the town would need to do an inspection and what would determine if it is granted or not? Also, any idea of cost? And any way to get around this?


A COO (certificate of occupancy) is a requirement in a lot of states & cities.
It simply States the 'Residence' is up to livable human minimum standards.

They will look for things like sewer gas vents, properly grounded electrical service, sewage treatment or sewer hookup, stuff like that.
Mold, lead paint, mouse/rat/bug issues and asbestos are something they look for now.
Stuff you would want to know about if you were going to live there full time.

It's mostly so they can tax the crap out of you, but it's also to stop people from renting out yard barns and storage rooms as 'Apartments' that don't have proper water, sewer or electrical hook-ups.

The biggest issue most people run into is septic systems, some construction was 'Grandfathered' when built, but full time living might overload the septic rather than a 'Weekend' or 'Cabin' which had different requirements.
New owners *Might* have to update since the grandfather doesn't apply to new owners in some states.

If the septic was inspected when it was installed, the tank & field size is verified and it's usually a breeze. Almost everyone that installs a proper septic system oversized it.

I've had to install a ground rod/wire here, update some outlets to 3 conductor (grounded) outlets there in my rentals, but it's minor stuff most times... And it's kind of common sense stuff too, something a weekend warrior might not have done way back when, but is common & standard today.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

mml373 said:


> I guess it depends where. Had to have one for the house I bought in the suburbs in Illinois years ago. "Suburbs" and "Illinois" being operative words in this case.


I have lived in Illinois since the 70s and I’ve never heard of one here.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> I have lived in Illinois since the 70s and I’ve never heard of one here.


Not uncommon.
When the city/state inspector (or certified contractor) signs off on septic/sewer, electrical, etc the COO is automatic.
I didn't know about COO until a renter (dead beat) tried to dodge the rent by saying I didn't present a COO with the rental contract.

I got lucky, my contractor had signed off on the COO during remodeling since wiring & plumbing was done, we needed a permit, but I still didn't get paid for back rent...


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol my country JUST started requiring a building permit. It’s ten bucks and is mostly a notice to the assessor.
No building code enforcement​


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

That's what they told me here, it's mostly a tax thing once an inspector checks things off.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol my country JUST started requiring a building permit. It’s ten bucks and is mostly a notice to the assessor.
> No building code enforcement​


And so it begins!


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## mml373 (May 2, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> I have lived in Illinois since the 70s and I’ve never heard of one here.


Guess it depends where you are. I had to sign one in the St. Louis suburbs on the Illinois side.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yeah it a different world just a hour away


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

Wolf mom said:


> "And a CO is not just a signal for occupancy, despite its name. In most cases it also will be required before you can complete the mortgage process. Likewise, your homeowner’s insurance company may also require a CO".
> 
> Was wondering if a CO was needed for a mortgage since no one here spoke of it, so I looked it up. Thought so.


A couple of times I have built new homes with construction loans. In order to convert the construction loan to a permanent mortgage I had to supply the CO to demonstrrate that the home was complete and up to code. I also needed the CO to move my insurance from construction insurance to regular homeowners.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

My wife is a site project manager for a new home builder (40-50 homes a year in different counties). Each county can have their own zoning requirements, and rules. It really depends on who is the local zoning inspector, and how much of a prick he is over fussy little items of no consequence.....some of these guys have a Napoleon complex.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I knew a builder once who told me, "I have $3,000,000 of construction all over this city every year that is held up by one person making $30,000 per year, and who lectures me on how to do it."


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

I still remember a statement made to me 60 yrs ago. "Give some people a little power and they go haywire"
It fits so many situations.


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