# Root Celler Ideas



## WildRoots (Nov 24, 2013)

We plan on digging a root Celler in the spring. We live on a hill so we have quite a few options. I would love Some input on design and size. Never had a root celler but I'm very excited! We have an excavator so we don't have to rent one.


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## dirtman (Sep 15, 2011)

I built one this year into the side of a hill. 8 ft X 12 ft. Poured concrete side walls. An arched roof made of 3 layers of 1/2 OSB with ice and water shield, a coating of plastic roof cement, 6 mil plastic and a pond liner over that. Hasn't leaked. I have 8 inches of dirt on it and a big layer of leaves. Even with about 18 inches of snow cover water still froze in it when it got down to 10 below. I'll have to figure out another way to keep it from freezing before I fill it with canned goods and produce.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Makes a big difference where you are at. How cold? How wet? Here we are wet so we build as a daylight basement so the water can be channeled away with out having to pump it. It doesn't get real cold. We dig into the hillside and pour a footing, stem walls to above ground level and a slab floor. The rest above ground level is studded and all is insulated well. They need 2 vents, both through the roof, 1 at floor level and one higher up to regulate humidity....James


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## WildRoots (Nov 24, 2013)

We're in central New York it gets cold, -17 last week, Extreme but it happens. Lots of rain and snow. 120 inches of snow a year is nothing, and it seems to rain all the time.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

You will probably need to insulate any of the concrete above the frost line, inside and/or outside and the roof....James


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

WOW dirtman, what did you use for roofing rafters under all that weight?

I've been planning our "root cellar" for some time now. It will be on the "south" side of the hill next to our garden. Our "frost line" is 18 inches; but I figure if I make sure the roof has at least 2 ft of soil on top of whatever roofing material is used, this should negate any freezing. Maybe such an idea would work in New York??


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## dirtman (Sep 15, 2011)

I have a couple of 6x6's with 4x4 posts in the middle of the span. After the roof was formed though the beams are'nt really carrying much load. An inch and a half of OSB curved over that short of a span will carry a lot of weight. 2 ft of soil is much more than I am carrying though.


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

A root cellar is something I also have had in the back of mind for a long time. Thank you for posting this.

When I think of a root cellar, I see a walk in refrigerator, a bit warmer though. Refrigerators are about 38F, so as jwal10 suggested, insulation above frost line makes sense. 

In my county, frost line is 4ft. However, the electrical inspector told me that on my sunny southern sloped granite mountain property that 2ft was deep enough to not need a freeze expansion joint on my buried electrical service line conduit. That means the depth of the frost line varies.

There are several subtle things to consider with a root cellar. How deep, how big, where, what temperature, how much of what to store, and the door are the first questions that pop in my mind.

How deep? Since the excavated dirt can be piled on the sides and top of the root cellar it simplifies this to some extent. It wouldn't be so simple if we stepped back a hundred years in time. Now, "how deep", is a different problem for each of us.

How big? How big were those of our ancestors? How much of what was stored in those old root cellars? Was the ice box the city dwellers' solution to not having a root cellar? Ice boxes were very small. If the root cellar is too big, does temperature become a complication? I'm thinking the word "root cellar" means it was used for roots. I can see that a years harvest of roots would be too big for an old ice box or a new refrigerator. The bigger the root cellar, the more materials, cost, time, etc. it takes. What about electricity. Would a light be needed? Imagine finding something specific in a large dark closet.

Where? I feel that a root cellar should be between the garden and the kitchen, and pretty close to the kitchen.

What temperature? Is there a desired or optimum temperature? Should there be a way to control the temperature? Is ventilation required?

What is stored and how it is stored is also factor. If the root cellar is big and it stores a lot more than just roots, would a small refrigerator and a small freezer in the "root cellar" make it a walk-in pantry?

Is the door like a crawl space entry, or like a regular door? Should the door face a certain direction? Does it matter?

Thanks again for posting this thread. It got me thinking.
Gary


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## mskrieger (May 1, 2012)

Dirtman, your set up sounds sensible. I think somehow you either (a) didn't dig your cellar deep enough or (b) need to insulate the doorway some. Perhaps you could put a 'double doorway'; i.e. an outer door with insulation, then a space filled with air (like a foyer), then an inner door, also insulated? The air in the foyer would help insulate, too. 

Gobug, you are thinking about all the right things--just one more comes to mind, ventilation. Stored veggies need to breathe just like us. If it gets too stuffy in there they can rot. In a small root celler you could just use a pipe to let fresh air in and out, and attach a cap to block it off when the exterior temperature drops too low or too warm. In a bigger cellar ('walk in refrigerator' size) you would want two pipes: one long to reach into the back of the cellar near the floor to bring in fresh air, one short at the upper front of the cellar to let out warm stale air. (the lengths and positions are to set up an air flow...it can be switched around a bit but generally you want to make sure the air is circulating.)

The 'ideal' root cellar temperature for roots, cabbages, smoked meat etc. is generally considered to be between 35-40 degrees Fahrenheit. This isn't too hard for most folks in cold climates to obtain in an underground cellar. I've heard of people in really extreme cold climates (Montana for example) having to dig quite deeply, but it still works as long as you are below the frost line.


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## dirtman (Sep 15, 2011)

This year is the first time in quite a few years that we got this cold. I live in Michigan's little finger, surrounded by water and it seldom gets even in the single digits. I had a jug of water in there as a test and like I said it got to 10 below outside before it froze. I didn't go deeper because I didn't think I could handle more weight from dirt as our snow load can get pretty deep. I believe you are right about the entry being the problem and at least a temporary second door would be a good plan for really cold times. Also next year I'll probably put a thick layer of straw over it. I imagine the leaves I had on it this year just packed down and didn't provide much insulation.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

North garage wall, 7' of dirt on the outside. Cut a hole in the wall.











Used an excavator to dig an 8x10 hole on the outside.
Hand poured a small footer, laid 8" block up for 10 courses (80")










Used temporary wood supports and temporary wood deck above to support 6" concrete pour for roof.




























Pumped concrete same time another project was being pumped. Laid a hunk of EDM rubber roofing over the finished concrete, and backfilled about foot of dirt on top.










Finished inside with shelves, lights, vent ( right side wall not shown ). Built insulated door out of red cedar and foam board.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

I dug mine into the hillside poured a concrete floor then used solid blocks for the walls . don't forget to add a French drain around the out side and a drain in the inside floor . I have a 2x4 insulated ceeling and a temporary metal roof as I am planning a smoke house on top .it is buried on three sides .I do have a humidity problem inside with water condenceing on the celing and on the mason jars causeing a rust problem on the lids .but it has kept irish potatos solid through the winter and spring . I figger that adding more ventilation when I add the second story will solve the dampness problem I did anticipate some dampness so I used treated lumber building the shelves and potato boxes .


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Actually, if one plans to store root vegetables ( like potatoes ), you need a fairly high humidity, which doesn't go well with most metals. Place for canning jars needs to be someplace else.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Our "fruit house" is 6'x8', has a concrete floor, studded walls with framed roof, insulated with sawdust, 6" in walls and a foot in the ceiling We have fruit bins and shelves for the jars. No condensation at all. Onions hang on the walls there and in my shop, squash are in wooden bins on the floor of my shop....James


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## WildRoots (Nov 24, 2013)

Love the ideas, questions, and photos. What about lighting? I was thinking solar.


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

Very interesting! 

What a difference between TnAndy's root cellar and arnie's. Thanks to both of you for posting those pics. 

TnAndy has a lot of space and a lot of shelving. The pics show a lot of project management effort, as well as storage for a lot more than roots. 

Arnie's looks much smaller, cheaper, and more feasible for simpler DIY root cellars.

Just based on the choices from which I must choose, I am inclined to utilize the excavator and concrete truck that I already must employ to also make a large "root cellar" and utilize the extra space for a pantry or walk in refrigerator. A regular size kitchen is just not big enough.

Fresh air is required. Temperature and humidity requirements are different for different things. Can these be separate areas inside of the "root cellar", like the produce room in a grocery store back area? Does that mean all kinds of thermostatically, humidity controlled sensors and equipment? Hmmm? Arnie's approach may be the best for some and TnAndy's for others!?


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

gobug said:


> A regular size kitchen is just not big enough.


Even a larger kitchen isn't always enough !

We built a fair sized kitchen when we built the house in 1985, a result of living in a mobile home with about 4' of counter space I suspect... 

Here is the remodeled version of it we did couple years back.










In the same garage as the root cellar is extended out of, I'd earlier built in a set of floor to ceiling cabinets along that same north wall. You can see the edge of them in the first cellar photo. They are 20" deep, by 8' tall, by about 14' in length ( half the depth of the garage ). The garage itself is well insulated, and using that north wall keeps the contents of the storage well above freezing.











In our kitchen itself, I built a set of 12" x 8' x 8' tall canned goods cabinets in the hallway leading out to the garage.











Then, about 5 years back, I attacked the east (back) wall of the garage with a chainsaw and built an 'auxiliary' kitchen out there. Combination summer kitchen, canning room, meat cutting room and additional canned storage pantry. Made the addition 12' x 22'. I especially wanted a place for a wood cook stove, and there was simply no way to get a flue in the main kitchen, nor space for the wood stove.....so this solved that problem as well.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Cont......




















Walk in cooler takes up 6x6 on north end, along with a walk in pantry to the right.










Finished pic of same end of that room.










Other end ( not quite finished in this pic ) is working counter, commercial deep sink, dishwasher that came out of the main kitchen during the remodel, small WH with a hot water rated hose I can hose out the whole thing to central floor drains.


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## biggkidd (Aug 16, 2012)

TnAndy said:


> Cont......
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Wow that is way nice. Thanks for sharing.

Larry


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

I agree with shelves of canned goods in the house and huge canners colanders strainers pitters grinders and all the tools used in canning and cooking my little kitchen were fast closeing in on me so I added a summer kitchen to the shady side of the cabin .mine is more like a covered deck with a sink,heavy unfinished table to clamp tools to and chop pour and spill on also a place to keep the freezers and propain stove its nice to be out in the air during summers heat for canning my cabnet to store tools in is just ply wood as is the floor with a tin roof. nothing finished but fitting in with my more rustic carpentry skills (and income) yet it gets a lot of use and can be hosed off if need be :lookout:.


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## WildRoots (Nov 24, 2013)

Having a separate kitchen for canning and processing?! What a great idea, can't believe I didn't think of that as an option. My poor husband.


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## MoonShadows (Jan 11, 2014)

Even though we have 15 acres, our raised garden beds are fairly close to the house. We are thinking of building an open-air outdoor kitchen with a sink, counter and stove top to do all of our canning outside. It would only be used in the summer and Fall.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

WildRoots said:


> Having a separate kitchen for canning and processing?! What a great idea, can't believe I didn't think of that as an option. My poor husband.


I just kept my eye opened and as friends were remodeling I got a stainless double bowl sink and hooked up the cold water to it for washing off veggies ect and the old propain stove was a give away also, and easy to set up this makes canning much more convnvent and my budget has not been brused to bad . :bandwagon:..now if I canget the top story built on to the root cellar for a smoke house I orangianly planed to build it of wood but the more I think of how to keep it mouse prouff i'm changing my mind to just continue up with cinder blocks eep:


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