# Would you do this?



## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

My husband and I live on 40 acres. The 40 acres next to us does not have a house. It has a barn and a run in shed. They currently have 3 horses on it. The horses have always been there. 2 of them are 30 and could die at any time. 1 is 10 and has not been broke. I'm saying this because it's going to come into play. The property is fenced and has trees/bushes. The fencing is bad. I think a large portion of it will just need replaced completely as the posts are rotting and leaning. The barn and shed are in good condition. There are several old foundations on the property. Apparently there once was a house but it burnt down. So this is leading me to the price. He wants 100k for it. A rather steep sum for our area we think. We make a bit over 100k. Will have the possibility for a much increased income when the oil well is completed but we have no real idea when that will happen. We've all signed our contracts and it's the oil companies business now. So the land is for sale. It's next door. We would like to land lock it. We live in a completely unrestricted area. Businesses have been moving here. We could have anything go in next door. It terrifies us. It would also be great to run cows on 80 acres. 

The downside is the price, obviously. Quite a lot of money. We've had it appraised and while we haven't had the final statement yet I spoke to the appraiser and she says it's coming in close to asking. On top of that the fencing isn't great and I hate how it has all the foundations and dead trees that we'd have to remove ideally. Plus it's super over grazed since 3 horses have had free run of it as long as we've lived out there. The entire acreage would need replanted. That and he said the horses stay. We don't have a lot of wiggle room. He has his mineral rights just as we do ours. He's only thinking of selling because of retirement. He certainly doesn't have to. So if we got this property we'd get a lot more debt (so far the only debt we have is our own home mortgage) and 3 pasture pets.

Financially we could do this right now. We make enough. However, we like our current standard of living. I like buying whatever I want whenever I want. lol We'd have to cut back a fair amount. Plus my husband HATES the thought of more debt. He's a Dave Ramsey guy. Wants to be debt free.

So we are super struggling. We have fear of what could go in next door that really motivates us to get this property. However, the fear of being essentially house poor makes us not want to do it.

What would you do?


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## farmerted (Dec 21, 2012)

Do you feel like 40 acres is not enough room, or is your house close to the fence line of the property you are thinking about buying? I live on 3 acres and am overwhelmed by the largeness of it sometimes. Always thought I wanted 40 acres, but nope, never in a million years, too much land. My neighbor is about 30 years older than me, once he sells his house I hope to buy it so we can have 6 acres. 80 is a number I cannot even comprehend. 

Free time is worth a lot of money. The work you list above looks like it will eliminate that from your life for a while. Long term it would probably pay off.


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## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

If you end up with some crap neighbor or an industrial complex, you'll wish you'd given $200k for it. Seth


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Sounds like a good investment to me and you won't have some horrid business move next door. Just because the horses come with it, doesn't mean you have to keep the horses. You can put up hot wire for cows and that really isn't a huge expense.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

I'd use having to keep his horses as a bargaining tool and offer him what land around is currently going for per acre + the worth of the barn & shed. If that comes to what he's asking then offer him 10,000 less and be willing to go back and forth until you meet in the middle. 

I'm one of those that believe land is an excellent investment and even if I had to tighten my belt a little I'd go for it without a second thought.


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## Guest (May 20, 2014)

You don't say where you are but if 3 horses are over-grazing 40 acres it has to be pretty poor land .


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

farmerted said:


> Do you feel like 40 acres is not enough room, or is your house close to the fence line of the property you are thinking about buying? I live on 3 acres and am overwhelmed by the largeness of it sometimes. Always thought I wanted 40 acres, but nope, never in a million years, too much land. My neighbor is about 30 years older than me, once he sells his house I hope to buy it so we can have 6 acres. 80 is a number I cannot even comprehend.
> 
> Free time is worth a lot of money. The work you list above looks like it will eliminate that from your life for a while. Long term it would probably pay off.


They are our direct neighbor. On our road it goes- property we are thinking of buying, then us. Our fear is that a business will move in. There are no restrictions in our area and businesses have been moving in. Most recently an electronics recycling plant on the opposite corner. It's far from us but our neighbors are incredibly unhappy to have it there and we are worried about well poisoning. So that's the fear.


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

WV Hillbilly said:


> You don't say where you are but if 3 horses are over-grazing 40 acres it has to be pretty poor land .


It is. It's our area. We've been in drought for years and years. Our own property has a complete lack of grass on it which is part of the reason we don't have our own livestock. This property is worse than ours since it has active livestock on it. At least we have weeds. lol

Pic of the land. This is our land but the neighbors is the same.
View attachment 29498


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

Teej said:


> I'd use having to keep his horses as a bargaining tool and offer him what land around is currently going for per acre + the worth of the barn & shed. If that comes to what he's asking then offer him 10,000 less and be willing to go back and forth until you meet in the middle.
> 
> I'm one of those that believe land is an excellent investment and even if I had to tighten my belt a little I'd go for it without a second thought.


Thanks for this! We're struggling with the money loss is all. lol


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Rock and and a hard spot. Having the horses stay might be a deal breaker for others. The price is attractive to those moving from more expensive areas. For someone from MD or NJ $100,000 for 40 acres and their "dream" is cheap. 

It's a crap shoot at this point. You got the first shot at it. Try to work with him on the price. If it's like most horse pastures around here the stuff the horses won;t eat is out of control.


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## gracegarden (Mar 30, 2007)

30 year old horses aren't going to live much longer.
I believe I'd buy just so I'd have the security.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

You can do it. It is worth more to you than to someone who is not next door. If you decide you cannot do it after you start, you will survive what little you may lose to do it. Once you own it you can decide all the rest. If you don't, you will always wish you had. HT'rs make good enablers


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## bluetick (May 11, 2002)

If you become financially strapped, perhaps you could resell it.


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

If you have your land leased for oil...does he? If he has full mineral rights and it is a desired lease area that might make the difference. He may want to retain rights...or it might already be leased....


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

notwyse said:


> If you have your land leased for oil...does he? If he has full mineral rights and it is a desired lease area that might make the difference. He may want to retain rights...or it might already be leased....


So the story of everyone's mineral rights is a complicated one. Basically everyone in our section and another had them. Then the people who had parceled out the land sued because it was all an "accident". Demand letters came out first and a lot of the simple country folk around us were down right frightened by it. SO many people signed them away. So we have our mineral rights but the people who sold to the current neighbors signed the right away before selling. The thing is the guy who owns that property happens to own 2 properties on our section. He owns both corners. He lives on 1 corner and has this other corner for pretty much nothing. He originally bought it to build his house and then when the other corner came for sell and already had a house they just went there. Anyway, so he has the rights to 1 corner but not the one next to us. If we bought that land it would not come with mineral rights as he didn't have them to begin with.


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

Bret said:


> You can do it. It is worth more to you than to someone who is not next door. If you decide you cannot do it after you start, you will survive what little you may lose to do it. Once you own it you can decide all the rest. If you don't, you will always wish you had. HT'rs make good enablers


Exactly what we need to hear! We know we should do it we just like our money.


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

Here's the story of a transaction I was involved in some 30 years ago that perhaps has a similar feel to it, although I was in the position of the property seller. I'd bought several acres in E. Tennessee that was beautiful partially wooded land with an old barn/ chicken coop with a similarly old "grew like Topsy" little metal roof cabin that was fine for me by myself while I got my small business established. I eventually was working out of rented space some 15 miles away and spending a lot less time at the cabin. Some real low-life neighbors "over the hill" started breaking in and stealing stuff so it became time to move. When I'd first arrived, the neighbor across the narrow blacktop road (who had a nice modern little house he kept well-tended, raising family, etc) cautioned me that there was a business, I think a gravel quarry, further back over the hill that really coveted possible access rights that could run up my driveway then potentially through a bit of the woods and provide a much easier route for his hauling trucks. Sure enough, someone contacted me asking if I could sell an easement cheap and of course I laughed the idea off. After I'd decided it was time to get out of the place myself and buy something close to my business location, I approached the nice neighbor and told him I did need to sell but could work out something really flexible, low down payment, same price I paid initially, carry the mortgage myself, just a handshake deal with minimal paperwork with an economical attorney. Golly, he said, that's tempting, my son's just out of high school, could live in the house there a stone's throw away, I'll think about it and let you know. Some months later, he'd never "gotten off the pot" and I'd bought and moved into another place; somehow, the quarry owner over the hill contacted me again and asked if I wanted to sell the property (or the access rights, of course) and we agreed pretty much on the terms I'd offered the pleasant neighbor. Shortly after, I made a point of telling the other guy and he literally turned pale. Sort of choked out, "That means those heavy dump trucks will be running in and out right through your driveway in front of my house. I'd've bought it if I knew this would happen!" I felt bad about that, but I'd agreed to the sale and didn't consider trying to back out. Probably a week later as I was doing final moving out, I looked across the road and there was a "For Sale" sign in the neighbor's yard. Then I felt *really* bad, and still do. Gakk. 

A while back, I used Google Earth to "go back" to the site and sure enough, there is a massive road cut along one edge of the land I sold leading up a hill over to some cluttered commercial buildings with a bunch of vehicles parked around them. The old cabin's gone with a mobile home replacing it a bit farther up the hill where the barn used to be. Very sterile looking.

You can mail me my award as "Enabler-in-chief" on this one, if you care to.


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

DryHeat said:


> I'd've bought it if I knew this would happen!" I felt bad about that, but I'd agreed to the sale and didn't consider trying to back out.
> 
> 
> You can mail me my award as "Enabler-in-chief" on this one, if you care to.


You bent over backwards to help a neighbor and he hems and haws while HE blows the deal, any YOU feel bad. Nope, sorry but you offered the guy a real straight up, "I'm heading out and I really want to do right by everybody" deal, and he can't get his act together enough to take you up on it. 


BTW, your old 'stead being destroyed by a gravel company, and the story of the OP being down the road from an electronic recycling company are two great examples of why I have no issue living in the heavily zoned mid-atlantic region. It makes me smile when a few of us express this and get attacked by members, and even one rabid moderator, on the issue. Want to buy a rural patch in my 'hood for recycling, quarrying, or other quality of life destroying pursuits? Not going to happen. You will be politely reminded to check the local zoning maps to find an area delineated as "INDUSTRIAL". Not only does this protect us, but it keeps the value of land priced appropriately for the use. As in, acreage without development rights, and zoned agricultural, is worth a fraction of industrial ground, and taxed at a small fraction.


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

Funny you should say something like that. We drive past "Archer Estates" to get to our house. It's closer to town, land is going for a premium, lots of restrictions and the houses are large. Very "swanky" country living. While driving home Friday I couldn't believe how blinded I was by the oil rig drilling right in the middle. They only have to be 500 feet from a house. All the restrictions in the world don't protect the rich from obnoxious oil developers. My other example is of an aquiantance in a very pricey subdivision who has a rig going up 700 feet from his door. Imagine what that is going to do to property value and quality of life! Actually part of the reason we want that property.



wharton said:


> You bent over backwards to help a neighbor and he hems and haws while HE blows the deal, any YOU feel bad. Nope, sorry but you offered the guy a real straight up, "I'm heading out and I really want to do right by everybody" deal, and he can't get his act together enough to take you up on it.
> 
> 
> BTW, your old 'stead being destroyed by a gravel company, and the story of the OP being down the road from an electronic recycling company are two great examples of why I have no issue living in the heavily zoned mid-atlantic region. It makes me smile when a few of us express this and get attacked by members, and even one rabid moderator, on the issue. Want to buy a rural patch in my 'hood for recycling, quarrying, or other quality of life destroying pursuits? Not going to happen. You will be politely reminded to check the local zoning maps to find an area delineated as "INDUSTRIAL". Not only does this protect us, but it keeps the value of land priced appropriately for the use. As in, acreage without development rights, and zoned agricultural, is worth a fraction of industrial ground, and taxed at a small fraction.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

I have a somewhat similar situation.

I share a half mile boundary with an out-of-state owner of 40 acres that I would like to buy.

He is asking nearly double the current market value (has been on and off the market for 3 years). I want the property and it truly is worth more to me than probably anyone else in the world...but I am willing to take my chances that he won't sell anywhere near his asking price.

I am staying in touch though! He knows I am interested, and I have offered a price that is about 10% above the median comp. 

Bottom line - you don't want to lose the property or have it put into some disasterous use, and based on the research you did, the asking price is in line with the market. 

What are you waiting for?? eep:


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## patsacct (May 13, 2014)

From your comments it sounds to me like the price is more than you are "comfortable" with. My recommendation is that you listen to what your head is trying to tell you and not let the fear of something that may never happen get you into an uncomfortable financial situation. You are comfortable now so don't mess it up. Decide what you would be happy to pay the property. Make an offer for that amount and stick to it. Maybe nobody will buy the land any time soon and time will work in your favor. Good luck!


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

Well we got the appraisal and it appraised at 97k. We were hoping for a lot lower than that. My husband is very much against spending that much money. I think we will severely regret it if we do not get it. Coming to an agreement on this is going to be very tough.


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

if you can buy it! I may never come up again on the market. You won't regret it. it is not that high. Acerage is going for $3000+ here and that is for the large parcels not cut up under 160. Anything under that can quickly hit $10,000/ac. Much of this area has been strip mined and has oil/gas on it.


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

okiemom said:


> if you can buy it! I may never come up again on the market. You won't regret it. it is not that high. Acerage is going for $3000+ here and that is for the large parcels not cut up under 160. Anything under that can quickly hit $10,000/ac. Much of this area has been strip mined and has oil/gas on it.


I realize it's cheap for other areas but I live in the least populated state in the union. So this is fairly expensive for our area. Our property which has a house on it and many other features this property doesn't have cost 230k. So 97k for a barn seems awfully steep.

I agree though. This could be our one and only chance.


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

We just offered him 70. We are hoping to keep it around 90. I hope he looks kindly upon us! This is so nerve wracking I could be sick.


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## patsacct (May 13, 2014)

I find it difficult to understand somebody telling you to buy something because it does not cost too much when they know nothing of your financial situation. 

How can you tell somebody else if something is too much for them or not? What land is "going for" other places is irrelevant.

Anyhow, I think you are probably wise to shoot for a lower price. You and your husband have to BOTH be comfortable with what you pay right?


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## patsacct (May 13, 2014)

I'll say one more thing on this and wish you the best. 

I advise against feeling pressured into making financial decisions based upon fear of the unknown. There will always be another unknown down the line. Always make financial decisions based upon financial FACT rather than fear. Remove the emotion and then see what the numbers tell you.


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

patsacct said:


> I find it difficult to understand somebody telling you to buy something because it does not cost too much when they know nothing of your financial situation.
> 
> How can you tell somebody else if something is too much for them or not? What land is "going for" other places is irrelevant.
> 
> Anyhow, I think you are probably wise to shoot for a lower price. You and your husband have to BOTH be comfortable with what you pay right?


Yeah. When I see other threads about land prices in other areas I about die. It's cheap here but then our total cost of living and income is lower here.


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

patsacct said:


> I'll say one more thing on this and wish you the best.
> 
> I advise against feeling pressured into making financial decisions based upon fear of the unknown. There will always be another unknown down the line. Always make financial decisions based upon financial FACT rather than fear. Remove the emotion and then see what the numbers tell you.


I realize it's fear but I'd say it's fairly well placed in reality. We do talk to this neighbor fairly often. He's been very honest in telling us he'd let the oil rig go on it without a problem and that if we don't buy it a cement company is interested. I'd say the probability of the undesirable happening is fairly large.


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## patsacct (May 13, 2014)

I see.

If that is the case, and if it costs more than you are comfortable paying and he is not going to come down on his price to your comfort zone...I see two choices. 

1. Pay more than you feel you should. 
2. Move.

There may be other options, but that is what I see. 

Sometimes we need a push because, let's face it, nobody wants to deal with moving. often we get pushed and end up surprised that we land in a better spot. Same applies to changing jobs imho. 

Perhaps it is time to consider a move. There may be something you really like elsewhere --even within the same general area you live in now. It certainly would not hurt to look.

I really hope this works out well for you.


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## cricket49 (Apr 20, 2014)

One of my biggest hurdles in looking at land was the unknown on properties around the land we might buy. One of the nicest properties we found was 28 acres with a small farmhouse surrounded by quarry property. I was the one who found the quarry owned it by tax records and google earth. Not a working quarry but after research I found a quarry can reopen or be sold at any time and start processing again. We did not even consider this land after due diligence.

We never considered buying any land that had 20+ acres around it since you never know what that owner will sell it for in the future. Mining, quarry etc.

30 years ago we bought 10 acres in a somewhat restricted subdivision. I was concerned about the restrictions and the owner/agent said "Well, that way you don't have to worry about someone having a pig farm next door". We bought this property and resold it 10 years ago.

We bought 9 unrestricted acres this year which is surrounded on all sides by restricted land/houses. The best of everything. No worries about the future property around us and we can do what we want on our land (to a point).

Since you stated that the land is unrestricted and businesses are moving into the area, I would consider that heavily when looking at 10-20 years down the road. Always look at the future when you are buying or considering to buy. Things change all the time and you don't want to be in a place of regret.

If I was younger and could afford to buy the property (with or without a mortgage), I would buy it. Just my opinion.


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## Cookie2 (Feb 21, 2014)

I think you're tied to the land and it is affecting your thinking.

I've seen this problem with other homeowners. They simply don't recognize that the situation surrounding their home is changing. You see the land that you live on now as a "home" - somewhere to live and raise your kids. Others see the land where you live now as "industrial" or, at best, mixed use.

The question is, if you were looking for land to buy now, would you select the parcel you're on given that so many businesses have the potential to move in and surround you? Given the trend in the electronics recycling business on the corner and the land right next door that could become something commercial, is that the "neighborhood" where you want to live?

I'm guessing the answer is "no". With that in mind, I wouldn't be making further investments in the area.

I agree with your husband. Pay off the mortgage you have now. Live debt-free and look to sell your current property to some industrial business. Then get out. Go buy yourself a parcel of land that is really where you want to live with the kinds of neighbors you really want to have around you.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Cookie2 said:


> I think you're tied to the land and it is affecting your thinking.
> 
> I've seen this problem with other homeowners. They simply don't recognize that the situation surrounding their home is changing. You see the land that you live on now as a "home" - somewhere to live and raise your kids. Others see the land where you live now as "industrial" or, at best, mixed use.
> 
> ...


 It is hard to start over, but this is excellent advice for the current situation.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Cookie2 said:


> I think you're tied to the land and it is affecting your thinking.
> 
> I've seen this problem with other homeowners. They simply don't recognize that the situation surrounding their home is changing. You see the land that you live on now as a "home" - somewhere to live and raise your kids. Others see the land where you live now as "industrial" or, at best, mixed use.
> 
> ...


It is hard to start over, but this is excellent advice for the current situation.


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