# new 5 acre layout



## ansky225 (Apr 14, 2014)

Hi  (my second post)

So, I'm going to sound like a total new person to animals, but I actually have an equine business management degree and an equine english riding degree. But we never learned about layouts, and a lot of stuff, so I have some silly questions. (Like we never learned about building or buying a fence. We learned how to run a farm, not build one.)

We don't own the property yet, but I want to go into it with plans started. Our thoughts are that we'd like (about) 2 horses, a dairy cow, 1-2 meat cattle (depending on what age they are you know?), a pig or two, and some chickens (laying and meat). Then the house, a pool or a pond (eventually), a bonfire/fire pit area, the shed (existing), dog fence area, garden, dirt riding arena (uncovered) 100'x200' would be awesome, but I don't know if we'll have the space based on pastures. It's a 5 acre rectangle, about 400x600. The house is in the top middle (about 250 in and 40 down from the top edge.) The barn needs to go on the left 400 side, middle or bottom.

We were thinking two 100'x200' paddock/pastures. We also researched and found that the horses and cows might be okay together depending on personality. What are your thoughts on potentially 5 animals and these two pastures? Could we do all in one (if they got along) and switch out every other week? Scrap that and try for one 200'x200', and if it doesn't work, fence down the middle? The goal isn't to have no hay, just trying to make the sizes okay and still have room.
Edit: Also, I know cows can stay out, but I'm a little confused as to if they actually do on small family homesteads? Should we make sure we have an empty stall for each of them? Also, (dumb question) can we just build stalls and will a horse stall be okay for a cow if it's in for the night? Do the pastures need to be right up to the barn and just open the door and they come home? (LOL!) or do you put a lead rope on and walk them half an acre distance like you would a horse? Oh, also, what kind of fence would you suggest for cattle/horses combined? Can we use regular four board wood fence with the cattle? Like this? http://profence.org/types-of-fence-board-fence.php 

Also, how big would the pig area have to be? I don't know how off base or right my husband is, but he was thinking that the pig area could be attached to the barn, for easy inside shelter on cold or awful days. (We're in Michigan.)

I've seen enough plans that I think we can make the chicken coop/run attached to the barn, but not sure about separating the laying and meat chickens? Would I need two runs and a split coop or what?

I have a ton of other questions and a lot of research (and time to research) but we really want to think about the layout asap. Thanks for ANY and ALL thoughts.  (PS, I promise I won't get mad if you get snarky. Don't hold back!)


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

Honestly, my first thought is that 5 acres isn't nearly enough land for the number of animals you want to keep there. Considering that of the 5-acres, some portion will be house and surrounds, you probably only have 4 acres to devote to animals. At best you could consider the 1 acre per horse rule but in reality if you follow the 1 horse per acre rule, you will still have no graze and will have to supplement almost everything they eat, within a short space of time. As you know, horses are VERY hard on pasture. 

In some cases you can keep horses and cows together. And, since they eat differently, it might be easier on the pasture overall. I would split the pasture area if I were you, and do a strict rotational graze, allowing one pasture to truly recover before putting animals back on it. Unfortunately, truly recovering can take a year or more, and in that time, the other 2 acres is being turned to dirt that will take even longer to recover.

What you may want to consider is your purpose in selecting the animals you have. For example, if you want milk, goats provide milk and need far less space. If you want meat, sheep are easier on pasture and grow out rapidly. Are the horses pets or do you actually ride them? And if you ride, WILL you ride when keeping them on your own property. 

Although I have 10 acres, I pay to board my horses about 20 minutes away, because I know if I brought them here, while it would be fun to look out the window and see them everyday, I wouldn't ride because going around and around our pasture would be boring and I have no one with whom to ride here. Instead I keep them at a small cooperative barn, and visit them 2-3 times each week. On any day that is good for riding, someone will text and say "Hey, how about it?" and we will meet and go and ride the several hundred acres we have available there. Beautiful pastures, woods, water crossings, trails. Then I brush out my horse, turn him back out in the turnout pasture, and head home to tend my livestock. (Btw, 6 horses at the boarding barn have reduced a 10-acre pasture to nothing.)


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## ansky225 (Apr 14, 2014)

Thanks 

I will actually ride, that's really why we're doing what we are doing. I'd ride more if they were here with me. That's why I need to plan space for the riding arena. In my area, a lot of people have their horses on their 5 acre lots, with one or two 1-2 acre pastures. Most people only have one pasture for their two horses. The property we're getting is actually zoned so that we could have 25 horses, not that I'd get that many. When I was little I rode at a place that was a 4 acre property that had like 20 horses, and they were all happy and healthy. I just need to figure out how to make it best work with like 5 big animals. I know it's not ideal, but it's what we've got.

My family doesn't want goat milk, but I am trying to find someplace around that has some to see if we can get some so they can try it.

I might be able to two one acre paddocks, but that still leaves my question of I don't know what to do with the pigs, how big of an area they need.


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## chuckhole (Mar 2, 2006)

I second Moboiku's comments. You need more land, fewer animals or hope you have a good source to purchase good hay and feed. Down here in Texas, we consider horses to be luxury animals. They require more attention, better feed, more vet visits and better facilities/fencing.

Take a look at the Dexter breed of cows. They are the smallest full size breed cattle (not a miniature). They stand about four feet and the cows average upwards of 700-800 pounds and the bulls from 900-1200 pounds. They are about half the average weight of the larger breeds and take about 1/4 the land (1/2 to 1 acre each). An added bonus is that they are excellent meat AND dairy cattle so you get the best of both worlds. They are quite hardy and very gentile. When we finish our pastures, this is route we will go. They came from the UK and are popular there as a "cottage cow".


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## ansky225 (Apr 14, 2014)

Thanks chuckhole!

That is what we were looking at for cattle, kind of. We were looking at trying to find a small Jersey / Dexter cross. I found one thread here that suggested instead of a mini Jersey, find a small Jersey and keep breading her with a small Dexter (or Jersey/Dexter) each year, to keep breeding smaller.

What would you suggest for fencing for a Jersey / Dexter if there was a horse in there with it?


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## chuckhole (Mar 2, 2006)

ansky225 said:


> Thanks chuckhole!
> 
> That is what we were looking at for cattle, kind of. We were looking at trying to find a small Jersey / Dexter cross. I found one thread here that suggested instead of a mini Jersey, find a small Jersey and keep breading her with a small Dexter (or Jersey/Dexter) each year, to keep breeding smaller.
> 
> What would you suggest for fencing for a Jersey / Dexter if there was a horse in there with it?


We are trying to be versatile such as yourself. We have a total of 42 acres to work and am converting about 6 to pasture and 2 for a pond. No horses but we want to be able to have a milk and meat goat or two in addition to the beef. So we are using 47" field fence and a top and bottom wire (double barb). It is costlier than a 5-wire fence but barb wire is not good for goats. We also have a problem with wild hogs so field fence is good at keeping them out. The bottom wire helps keep them from rooting under.

If you are going to get horses, then take a look at the 48" 6x6 goat fence. That is good for horses too. And no barb wire for horses.


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## susanneb (Feb 17, 2005)

Definitely no barbed wire for horses, but for wood, cattle panel or field fencing add hot wire top and bottom to keep them off the fence. Electric alone makes it too easy for them to run through if frightened or even just playing, and 5 acres is too small to risk them getting out.


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## ansky225 (Apr 14, 2014)

Thank you susanneb and chuckhole! I don't have any questions or concerns about the horses, just about the other animals. So susanneb, are you saying something like the link I posted (4 board fencing) with a wire at the top and bottom would be fine for the cattle?

Can anyone tell me the ideal and less than ideal but okay space for a pig or two that would be raised for meat? When searching on Google, I find such a wide range. From mud to clean shavings, to small areas they can barely turn in to what seems to be a large space.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Hello Ansky and welcome to the world of homesteading.

I have 6 acres and could easily run the "type" of animals you are wanting on it without problems. (This means animals for milk, meat & eggs.) I chose "goat" for milk and meat. (The milk is healthier as it leaves an alkaline ash in the system; whereas cow milk leaves an acidic ash that is not healthy for the system. Do not believe the negatives you've heard about goat milk. It is very tasty! The only thing a cow has over a milk goat is the butterfat! Also, the "meat" is similar to venison and better in texture and taste.) 

As for meat/egg chickens, you can run them together. I actually chose the "meat" type (Orpingtons and Wyandotts...both lay well in cold weather and are great nesters) and added guineas to keep down ticks. (Guineas make great pot pies and lay more eggs than any family could eat.) Each year I add 50 Jumbo Cornish X Rock, purchasing them as day-olds from McMurray, fattening them and turning them into pot pies. (My chicken house is set up so a portion of it can be used as a brooder whenever the need arises.)

As for hogs, I'm choosing the American Guinea Hog and will be free-ranging them with everything else. Great lard and plenty of bacon.

Sorry I cannot speak about horses, though I do understand your interest in them.

My entire 6 acres is fenced and everything "free-ranges" here. The only area animals are not permitted into is my garden/orchard, which takes up about an acre. The parameter fencing is simple field fencing 6" off ground with logs attached to the bottom in selective places. My guineas will fly over, graze a bit, then return; but none of my other animals have gone over or under them. 

My barn and chicken house are separate and both connected to my garden for ease in composting.

The one thing I do have you did not mention is a livestock guardian dog. You might want to consider getting one if you don't have one already.


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## ansky225 (Apr 14, 2014)

Thanks motdaugrnds!

Since you mentioned that everything free-ranges, does the barn lead to the pasture, and if they need shelter, they can go inside, or you can call them in? Or do you have a run-in? What's your plan for shelter for your hogs?

Thanks for the chicken suggestions. I was going to check out our TSC and see what they have. I've been to the McMurray website, I'll keep that in mind.

I do have a golden retriever, he is hardly the guard type, and if we let him off the leash he'd be gone. Horse barn dogs stay with the owner and just tag along. How does a livestock guardian dog do its job? I guess I mean, what is the dog's job description and where / how does it do it? If he's in the house, he couldn't be protecting anything.


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