# Time's up for petrol cars, says GM chief



## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Time's up for petrol cars, says GM chief
Editor in Detroit
January 15, 2008


Are you ready to drive an electric car?

THE world's biggest car maker, General Motors, believes global oil supply has peaked and a switch to electric cars is inevitable.

In a stunning announcement at the opening of the Detroit motor show, Rick Wagoner, GM's chairman and chief executive, also said ethanol was an "important interim solution" to the world's demand for oil, until battery technology improved to give electric cars the same driving range as petrol-powered cars.

GM is working on an electric car, called the Volt, which is due in showrooms in 2010, but delays in suitable battery technology have slowed the project.

The remaining oil reserves are deeper below the Earth's surface and therefore more costly to mine and refine.

"As a business necessity and an obligation to society we need to develop alternative sources of propulsion."

He added: "So, are electrically driven vehicles the answer for the mid- and long-term? Yes, for sure. But â¦ we need something else to significantly reduce our reliance on petroleum in the interim."

GM is so convinced about ethanol it has signed an agreement with a supplier that claims to have come up with a way of producing ethanol that is cheaper and more efficient than refining oil. The supplier claims it can produce ethanol from "almost any material" such as farm waste, municipal waste, discarded plastics - even old tyres.

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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

http://www.businessweek.com/lifesty..._autos+--+lifestyle+subindex+page_top+stories

GM Takes a Stake in Ethanol Maker
General Motors underscores its commitment to ethanol-powered vehicles by investing in a company that claims it can make the fuel more cheaply

by David Welch

Here's a tough sell. General Motors (GM) thinks it can make ethanol a big player in the quest to cut greenhouse gas emissions and wean America from its addiction to foreign oil.

GM is so adamant that ethanol can be a good solution that the automaker bought an undisclosed stake in Coskata, a private Warrenville (Ill.) company that claims it has developed an advanced process to make ethanol cheaply. GM announced the move Jan. 13 at the Detroit Auto Show.

GM and Coskata say that the company's highly efficient methods for making ethanol can take away many of the problems that have kept the fuel on the back burner. First, they plan to use agricultural waste and household garbage to make ethanol, which means fuel production wouldn't push food prices up. And second, Coskata claims its production will be so efficient that it won't give back all the oil savings just making the stuff.

"There is no question in my mind that making ethanol more widely available is absolutely the most effective and environmentally sound solution," GM Chairman and CEO G. Richard Wagoner Jr. said in a statement. "And it's one that can be acted on immediately."
Some Resistance

To date, ethanol has gotten plenty of resistance from a variety of cornersâand for good reason. First, it takes a unit of energy to make about 1.6 units of ethanol using corn. Critics point out that there isn't enough oil savings to make it worthwhile.

Next, ethanol is 25% less efficient in cars than gasoline, so consumers aren't sold. And the few who are need to live in the Midwest, where most of the nation's 1,400 ethanol pumps are located.

That has been one of the biggest problems. Detroit's carmakers, which produce most of the vehicles that can run on a rich mix of gasoline and ethanol, get credits toward meeting their federal fuel economy requirements. Since so few ethanol-enabled vehicles actually use the fuel, it has amounted to giving Detroit credits for cutting gasoline use when those vehicles mostly burn gas.

Changing Ethanol Economics?

GM and Coskata think they can change the economics of ethanol. The company's process cooks agricultural waste, old tires, wood, and household garbage at 1,800 degrees. Then bacteria eat the carbon monoxide and hydrogen to make ethanol, says Bill Roe, Coskata's president and CEO.

He claims that one unit of energy can produce 7.7 units of energy, which is far more efficient than using corn. The cost for production is about $1 per gallon.


GM thinks that with more efficient production, it could get to 90 billion gallons a year. Already, federal requirements mandate that they use 36 billion gallons of so-called biofuels a year.
Environmentalists Weigh In


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## vallyfarm (Oct 24, 2006)

Didn't they say we would be driving nuke powered cars by the 80's and jet car/planes by 2000? The only people I would trust less is the weathermen. Mike


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## comfortablynumb (Nov 18, 2003)

they would have had a 20 yr head start if they hadnt crushed all the EV-1s 

win todays battery tech, refittng an EV-1 would be a simple upgrde.

oh wait, they crushed em all.... thats right.

I think I might not buy from GM on general principle.


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## Michael Kawalek (Jun 21, 2007)

mightybooboo said:


> GM is working on an electric car, called the Volt, which is due in showrooms in 2010, but delays in suitable battery technology have slowed the project.


This is the statement that concerns me. I have also read that the viability of the volt or other electric cars is dependent on advances in battery technology that haven't yet come about. What if breakthroughs don't happen? Theres a lot at stake to be basing it's viablily on something that doesn't work yet. If the battery folks don't pull a rabbit out of their hats, the electric car is dead!
Michael


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Michael Kawalek said:


> If the battery folks don't pull a rabbit out of their hats, the electric car is dead!
> Michael


They HAD a workable NiMh pack and sold the technology to Texaco.Which REALLY sucks because we taxpayers paid for it in government money given to the auto makers for alternative transportation development.

It was made by a division of Ovonics (who makes Unisolar brand panels),division purchased by GM then sold to Texaco.

It sits on the shelf,unused ever since.

Thats OK,the nanotech LiIon is far superior.And LiIon wont be killed by a myriad of patents like large size NiMH was so its said.


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## pixelphotograph (Apr 8, 2007)

comfortablynumb said:


> they would have had a 20 yr head start if they hadnt crushed all the EV-1s
> 
> win todays battery tech, refittng an EV-1 would be a simple upgrde.
> 
> ...



I was thinking the same thing.
They killed the electric car boy are they doing a turnaround now.
Suddenly electric cars are in.
Hmm Someone at GM is eating those words I bet.


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

They have the tech for the batteries right now. Look at the battery powered tools on the market. They get stronger and lighter every single year. 
If they can build a battery that charges in an hour and you can run it slap down before charging again, they they can build them for cars. 

I am with comfortablynumb on this one. The only thing worse than buying GM product is buying a Jap brand and that doesn't really matter any more. 

Just my 2 coppers


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,
Interview with GM Lutz on the Volt and plug in hybrids:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/01/15/bob-lutz-video-its-immaterial-whos-first-on-evs-guarantees/

They seem pretty serious about it.

GM site on Volt:
http://www.gm-volt.com/

http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/



Gary


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

Well, I wouldn't believe everything which was in the docu-drama "Who killed the electric car". Conspiracies, I'm not a huge believer in.

GM, like any other auto maker, is in the business of selling vehicles - and an efficient vehicle, whether that be gas, hybrid, electric, whatever is just another selling feature for them. If/when GM can make real profit on an electric, you can bet they'll be offering it.

Right now, electric and hybrid are, for the most part, money losers for the automakers, and they know it. Why do they do it? To promote their image as "the company that cares about the environment" - not much different than the Hollywood actor who shows up for the big event in their fuel sipping or electric econobox - and then drives their 6 mpg V12 Lambo and Hummer for the rest of the year.

Most folks can't even remember to charge their cell phone - do ya think they want the inconvenience of charging their car?


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## Michael Kawalek (Jun 21, 2007)

OntarioMan said:


> Most folks can't even remember to charge their cell phone - do ya think they want the inconvenience of charging their car?


Given a choice between walking, and plugging in, I think people will remember. Walking to work once is a great memory booster. Still, what could be and what is are two different things. Since we already have quality rechargeable batteries, you'd think they could scale up immediately to power the car. Well, why hasn't it already happened? That is a very BIG "IF" hanging over the heads of electric car proponents! Maybe it won't happen, then what?
Michael


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

GM has a chance to redefine the automobile.Hope they can pull it off.They sure took it straight at Toyota and we havent seen that for a long long time.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Michael Kawalek said:


> Since we already have quality rechargeable batteries, you'd think they could scale up immediately to power the car. Well, why hasn't it already happened?
> Michael


Mike,I think part of it is making them safe.Theres a lot of juice in them compared to a drill.


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