# Wormers for milking goats.



## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

You guys know I don't worm..hardly ever. BUT, that being said, the fella that had the milk girls and buck that we purchased..was the same way we were. I'm glad..I don't feel these goats have wormer resistance of any kind.

For the meat herd..if an animal needs worming..believe it or not..Valbazen or Safeguard has done the trick. 

What do ya use if you are wanting to worm a milk goat that is still be milked for human consumption? I just read on the Safeguard for goats that it is not for lactating girls.:shrug:

Thanks in advance.


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

I use Safeguard


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Safeguard just doesn't work because it has been overused. Most of the worms (except tapeworms) have become immune.

You can use Cydectin or Ivermectin, but you have to discard the milk for a few days.


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

Hollowdweller...how long do you dump the milk if you use Safeguard?

Alice, if an animal doesn't get wormed..why would it not work to give them Safeguard?

Thanks to ya both~


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## hurryiml8 (Apr 15, 2009)

Sherry in Iowa said:


> Hollowdweller...how long do you dump the milk if you use Safeguard?
> 
> Alice, if an animal doesn't get wormed..why would it not work to give them Safeguard?
> 
> Thanks to ya both~


The worm population has become resistant to safeguard, your goats haven't.


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

hurryiml8 said:


> The worm population has become resistant to safeguard, your goats haven't.


I see, I didn't realize that if we don't worm regularly that a worm in the gut of our goats would be resistant to a wormer. I thought worm resistance came from over worming goat herds..that it was specific to the animal/herd that was being overly wormed.


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

From Fias Co Farm:

How worms build resistance:

Worms can build resistance to the Chemical wormers. Usually this happens because the wormer being used, is used over a long period of time and at improper dosages. The amount of wormer used is not enough to kill all the worms, but enough to help many of them build resistance. Also, over a long period of time, using the same chemical wormer, there are bound to be "strong" worms that survive the worming, these guys for, some reason, have built a resistance to that particular wormer and pass this on to their offspring (survival of the fittest). So, if a chemical wormer is used for over a long period of time, there is bound to be resistance. How long a period is totally dependant on the particular situation and management practices.

Goats have worms. It's a fact. There is no shame in this for the breeder. It's the amount of worms that is the issue. A healthy animal can resist a worm infestation because his system resources are strong and fight the worms and the worms cannot get a foothold. It is when the animal is poorly managed, or under some sort of stress (which contributes to illness and dis-ease) that the worms get a foothold and cause an infestation.

This is where herbal remedies differ from chemical ones. Herbs work with the body, to build and strengthen system resources, and so the body is strong and can resist and fight dis-ease. Herbal wormers not only expel worms, but they also strengthen the body so that worms cannot get a foothold.
How old the animals are when they are brought to your property really does not make a difference to the worms or their resistance, even if you have never had animals on your property before. Even a 1 month old kid is going to be carrying worms of some sort and these worms came from somewhere. It is good practice to worm all animals immediately when they are brought onto your property, so as to reduce the worms that they are bound to shed and let loose on your property. As a practice of "polite management", I always worm every animal I sell the day they are to leave my farm to go to their new home.

To me, it sounds like the worms on an individual place get resistant to wormers from overuse.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Here are the issues:

Do you know what dewormers were used and overused on the farm that your goats originally came from? Were there goats on your farm in the past who shed worm eggs from resistant worms?

Your goats' worms do not exist in a historical vacuum. They came from somewhere, and they carry resistance genetically.

Based on the goat community experience, Safeguard has a low level of success nationwide.

If you want to use it, I would recommend that you fecal test, then use Safeguard. Wait ten days, use Safeguard. Wait ten days and fecal test again. That's the ONLY way you'll know if your goats' worms are resistant or not.

HOWEVER, the very few goat folks that I am aware of who use it, dose at THREE TIMES the label dosage to have any effect. It is given for several days, as well.


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

I am really looking at what wormer to use on Milk Goats that you are milking. How long to you have to dump milk. I basically am using safegard as an example..because on the rare occasions that we have had to worm..we used it or Valbazen.

Our old herd have all been born here but two. The buck was never wormed before he got here..nor after. Louise (Weezie) is 14 and been wormed probably six times came at approx 2 months old. The new girls were not wormed much. The new buck probably not at all.

Not worried about the old herd or the new buck. Want to know what to use on the milk girls that we are milking and consuming the milk thereof.


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## Blue Run Farm (Feb 14, 2011)

Personally, in that case I think I'd use Ivermectin. Isn't it used on humans in other countries? Just milk and dump for 3 days or so. I've done it that way and haven't died from it yet 

Also, I agree with the others who said do fecals to make sure it is working.


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks Blue Run..that's the kind of info I'm looking for.


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

Sherry,

I wait about a week.

Read this : http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/rumin/article/PII0921448889900199/abstract


Regarding all the people saying Safeguard is not effective against worms.

I've heard that before also but at least for me it works great, so I'm not sure if is just like you said individual populations get resistance or what.

Normally when I turn a goat dry I give her a shot of Ivermectin, then before she freshens I give her a big does of the liquid safeguard. 

Usually I'll worm them 1 more time at some point with the safeguard, then there are the goats milking thru and they get Safeguard only.

I've only ever lost 1 goat to worms ever and that was in the early 90's.

All I can say works for me.

Edit: This would suggest resistance is a herd thing:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7900220


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

There is no official goat withdrawal time for Ivermectin. There are folks on here who drink the milk with no withdrawal. There are other folks who dump milk three days.

It's a personal decision.


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> There is no official goat withdrawal time for Ivermectin. There are folks on here who drink the milk with no withdrawal. There are other folks who dump milk three days.
> 
> It's a personal decision.


 
This says they could detect in around 40 days

http://www.farad.org/publications/digests/092000ExtralabelIvermectinMoxidectin.pdf


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Is that in the injection section? Goats are typically dewormed by oral methods, not injection.

That's a very good article.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Hollowdweller said:


> This says they could detect in around 40 days
> 
> http://www.farad.org/publications/digests/092000ExtralabelIvermectinMoxidectin.pdf


I'm not sure if I'm reading it wrong, but it seems to say 8 days if given orally, 40 for subcu, which surprises me. But I think most goat people give it orally.


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

Hollowdweller..thanks for the articles. We have only used white wormers here. Mostly safeguard and some Valbazen. But, we've never wormed the "herd". Only individuals. I don't believe anyone has been wormed for two years here. We see improvement after we worm, so I guess we just never gave any thought to it not working..lol. 

I think I like the idea of them actually testing to see how long it took the Safeguard to pass the milk. That gives me a great timeline..thanks. 

I have one that will kid in March and one that is milking straight through. Their coats aren't exactly what I'd like to see..but it's been going from 50s/60s to minus 15 with windchill all winter long. I doubt that that is helping much. Their weight is good and their gums/eyes look good. I want to worm the one that is going to kid..think I can wait until she kids though.


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Is that in the injection section? Goats are typically dewormed by oral methods, not injection.
> 
> That's a very good article.


 
Right, injection. 

Ivermectin is not absorbed orally very well. I haven't found it works given orally.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Did you fecal test before and after? (I don't know anyone who REALLY does that.)


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Did you fecal test before and after? (I don't know anyone who REALLY does that.)


No but I did have a goat die before and none after


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Here is a load of information:

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/controlgoatparasites.html


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

Safeguard is fenbendazole and also used for humans. Personally, if it's a human use wormer, I drink the milk anyway. I figure I probably can use some dewormer, too. I would rethink if someone else were drinking it.... JMO


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

haypoint said:


> Here is a load of information:
> 
> http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/controlgoatparasites.html


 
That is good. Esp the management suggestions. 

I think management makes a huge difference in whether worms are a problem.

Sort of like coccidia. Your best weapon there is feeding above ground level and a pitchfork and wheel barrow.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Or rigorous rotational grazing.


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Or rigorous rotational grazing.


 
Yeah for sure. I have my bucks dry lotted so I usually just wormed them on about the same schedule as the does.

Well last year in summer I just started letting them out to graze anytime I was home in the field by their pen. 

So I got one buck came down with the meningeal worm. Deer feed in that field all night. Whhere in the doe pasture the guard dog runs them out. So now I have to worm my bucks more often in the summer with Ivermectin.


Same with coccidia. When I let the kids nurse any time it would be a wet spell and of course kids nursing pee a lot my barn stayed wet and I had trouble with coccidia.

Then I started raising them separate on pasteurized milk and colostrum and using a calf hutch with a moveable fence and no more treating for coccidia and no problem with worms.

Moving them onto fresh ground really helps.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I want your barn!!!!!!!


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

Alice, 

We lucked into that.

It's actually an old tobacco barn as you can see.

The center part where the door is is 14 X 48 and hard packed dirt so we usually just keep that swept, and it's usually dry.

On the right hand side are box stalls and a hay loft above them.

On the other side I built keyhole feeders for grain and there is a gate that the goats can go thru and then into the old tobacco stripping room which is now the milking room.


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