# Dressing plain?



## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

I work at a community hospital south of Columbus, Ohio. There are a lot of Mennonite and Amish families in the area as well as quite a few fundamentalist/holiness Christian sects. I got to thinking about dressing plain when I noticed some lovely âplainâ ladies in the waiting area. I understand the purpose of dressing plain is to adhere to the tenets of the religion and reflect that outwardly with a modest appearance, to be set apart. I have no quarrel with how people believe, although I am not personally religious. I do, however, have an observation â plain dressed women (and men, but it was the women who got me thinking) really stand out, rather than being quiet and unassuming. Their clothing is much, much more noticeable than my typical work clothes of plain black pants or skirt and a cardigan over a simple shirt with low heeled black shoes. 

It seems to me that what is intended to set them apart as modest and unworldly makes them highly noticeable - rather than being modest they are _fashionable_, i.e. following a distinctive and customary way of dressing. The Amish/Mennonite âstyleâ is a holdover from another time and it seems that it actually creates the kind of notice that it was intended to counter. And I wonder how it feels to have someone decided for you what you can wear â as if somehow you are unable to be modest and unassuming without a bunch of rules. Would it not be better to allow women (and men) to choose their clothing based on their own judgment of what is modest and quiet? I guess I just donât get it. 

I know that some here dress plain and Iâd be interested in what you think about my observations. I'm not being critical or superior - I just got to thinking and wondering so I figured I'd ask.


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## Peggy (Feb 14, 2010)

I amire the Amish/mennonite people. but I like wearing pants. 
there is nothing wrong with your observations.
plus I like the way they live. I admire them for the way they live.


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## Peacock (Apr 12, 2006)

The same goes for certain Christian types who dress modestly -- with a capital M, as it's a way of life with its own culture rather than just a tendency to choose non-revealing clothes. It's easy to spot these families especially in the summer. How often do you see little girls in long toe-length skirts otherwise? 

I don't mean to criticize. I love it, actually. I go through skirts-only phases myself for similar reasons.

Nothing wrong with standing out like this, though, IMO. It's better than standing out from the crowd because you have cleavage down to your navel and a skirt up to your backside. Nothing wrong with standing out from the crowd because you are following your moral beliefs and serving God. 

Gives them a sense of belonging, too, which isn't a bad thing either.

I actually really admire the Mennonite style of dresses. I kind of wish I could wear one similar; they're pretty.

I could do without the bonnet though.


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

Peggy said:


> I amire the Amish/mennonite people. but I like wearing pants.
> there is nothing wrong with your observations.
> plus I like the way they live. I admire them for the way they live.


You wouldn't admire the way they live if you lived close to the Amish family across the road from us. The dad is in jail for molesting his 6-year-old daughter. Another girl (also Amish) down the road called the cops after being raped by her brother last summer. This group is a sick, twisted, nasty, vile cult.

I used to think they were so quiet and quaint, until they moved in and we witnessed all of the family and social issues going on. It truly is repulsive. Now, I know that there have to be Amish communities that aren't like this, but we only know what we've witnessed over the last couple of years.

To answer your question...yes, way the dress makes them stand out.


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## Peggy (Feb 14, 2010)

mammabooh said:


> You wouldn't admire the way they live if you lived close to the Amish family across the road from us. The dad is in jail for molesting his 6-year-old daughter. Another girl (also Amish) down the road called the cops after being raped by her brother last summer. This group is a sick, twisted, nasty, vile cult.
> 
> I used to think they were so quiet and quaint, until they moved in and we witnessed all of the family and social issues going on. It truly is repulsive. Now, I know that there have to be Amish communities that aren't like this, but we only know what we've witnessed over the last couple of years.
> 
> To answer your question...yes, way the dress makes them stand out.


every group has their "misfits". the Menniote farmer I deal with is hard working, decent family. 
still, I admire them ( at least most of them)
sorry to hear you live close to a group like that.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

No matter the religion or belief, we're all human, and we all have out own way of standing out no matter how hard we try not to... We also all have our own skeletons we try to keep in the closet.. 

While they may be dressed moderately and not stand out to each other, they do to the outside world.. If you look at them from inside, they all do dress alike.. They are dressing for their private world.. not ours..


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## Fat Charlie (Sep 9, 2010)

They're not trying to hide their religion or blend into the crown, just trying to avoid displaying their bodies. 

Ten frames? That's for Quakers!


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I think part of the way they dress modestly is to get attention- for being a part of their group. I see Moslem women wearing head scarves and it has the same effect. Look at us, we are devout Moslems. That may not have been the original intention, but that's what it does today. One can certainly dress modestly without the dress being a uniform.


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## Vernitta (Jan 14, 2009)

If I'm not mistaken I believe they dress plainly to be unadorned, not to be different or set apart. They dress modestly for the same reason and also to not show certain parts of their body.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I grew up in Old Order Dunkard territory. Basically the style of dress has not changed for over 100 years. That is about the same kind of clothing most women would have been wearing in the late 1800's. 

Somali Muslim women also dress so that their bodies and hair are hidden. But their clothes are far from plain. They wear some of the most beautiful long skirts I have ever seen.


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## airwolftruker (Jul 15, 2011)

I don't like how the sects have evolved over the years.
The hutterites where i lived in SD. Do stand out some what.
I dont like any religion that treats there woman badly or oppresses them.
Like removing a girls clitoris to keep her from lusting after men.
Or stoning a woman who was raped by a man.
by the way both of these religions are some form of muslim middle eastern sect.


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## hmsteader71 (Mar 16, 2006)

One of my best friends is Amish. I admire them for their way of life, the way they dress and so on but I do know that it can become idolatry for people when they focus too much on it. Not talking about you, but them. I do, however, when I go around them or take them places, dress in skirts and tops so that they or others in the community are not offended. I have never been asked to do this nor made to feel like I have to, I simply do it out of respect for my friend.


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## KentuckyDreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

I adore plain dressing. I love the "modesty suits" ( bathing suits ), etc. Since I can remember I was drawn to hoop skirts and Victorian clothing. It is just who I am...
At home I wear pre 1840 garb but rarely venture out of my yard wearing my usual. While it is what makes me feel the best about myself, I know it can be an embarrassment for my sons and I honestly do not like the stares. So I do dress in long modern skirts when I venture out. I long for the day when I live on a homestead and never have to wear modern clothing again. 

I wanted to try the cape dresses but was afraid others would think I was appropriating another culture. 

I lived in Canal Winchester, just south east of Columbus until last week. I now live in Dublin, Ohio so I would really stand out if I wore my usual in public


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> It's better than standing out from the crowd because you have cleavage down to your navel and a skirt up to your backside.


DBF begs to differ with you on that one. ound:


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## cindy-e (Feb 14, 2008)

everybody stands out for some reason. I think it is important to realize that they don't stand out in their own communities, which is where they spend most of their time. Since they choose to live in a different culture (which I very much admire, btw), the fact that they stand out in ours is no different than seeing somebody from india in a sari. Outside of their context, you notice it. That is totally reasonable. But inside their context it serves to do exactly what it is intended to do. 

An interesting aside... I now live near an international city. The different is the norm here. You walk by mennonite/amish, Hindis in Saris, Siks in turbans, and you hardly notice at all. =0)


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

People often miss understand why they dress they way the do. It's not so they don't stand out at all, although that is a part of it. By everyone one in the district wearing the same "outfit" there is less/no emphasses on outward appearance. Think about it, if you have 5 dresses all of identical style just different shades of color....how much time each day would you spend worrying about what to wear? That's the point. Every minutes taken away form the "what do I wear, how do I look, does this go with that" gives them another minute to spend time with the Lord, family, doing task A B or C, etc. The English are the ones that see them as "standing out" or "trying to be overly modest" (none of which I am saying was in this thread....more what you hear some English say in public when looking at (or staring at) Amish or other similar Christians faiths).

In every section of human division (religion, region, anti-religion, etc) you can find wonderful examples of "That kind" of people and horrible examples of "That kind" of people. Just because the ones you know are filthy or have a bad character (including damaging children) doesn't mean everyone in the "group" does. There are "bad apples" in all faiths, cultures, etc. I know more "bad English" then I do "bad Amish" but I don't assume, therefore, all English are xyz. But then again, I know many more English then Amish, be interesting to see the statistics.....but then, that survey can't be done.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

willow_girl said:


> DBF begs to differ with you on that one. ound:



I bet he does!


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

I live in an area with a large Anabaptist population too. I have a few friends who are ex Mennonite or have family that are still Amish/Mennonite. I have been told that in a way they do mean to "stand out", but not for the sake of "look at me, I'm different". Its for the sake of modesty, yes, but it's also for accountability. Sort of a reminder to themselves to behave in a Godly manner because as children of God and servants of Christ they are representatives of Him and they need to reflect that in their conduct/behavior.

Makes it harder to get away with something !


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I do not see how dressing to suit their life style and culture makes them immodest because they stand out against the back ground of our style of dress. That is like saying that an Indian woman wearing a Sari while shopping at Target is just showing off and trying to draw attention to herself b ecause she does not blend in.


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## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

mammabooh said:


> You wouldn't admire the way they live if you lived close to the Amish family across the road from us. The dad is in jail for molesting his 6-year-old daughter. Another girl (also Amish) down the road called the cops after being raped by her brother last summer. This group is a sick, twisted, nasty, vile cult.
> 
> I used to think they were so quiet and quaint, until they moved in and we witnessed all of the family and social issues going on. It truly is repulsive. Now, I know that there have to be Amish communities that aren't like this, but we only know what we've witnessed over the last couple of years.
> 
> To answer your question...yes, way the dress makes them stand out.


Wow, that is one of the most prejudicial things I have read in a very long time. So because there were a couple or even a few that did horrible things, the entire group is horrible? There are bad seeds in EVERY type of group. I guarantee there are bad seeds in groups that YOU associate with. I think you need to take a good long look at yourself and the sick, twisted, nasty, vile thing you just said...


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

Um, did you miss this part of my post?

"Now, I know that there have to be Amish communities that aren't like this, but we only know what we've witnessed over the last couple of years."

I said that I know they aren't all like this, but the ones around us are. Try living with it. It's not pleasant. We've had the mom and daughters hiding at our house because the oldest son was running around chasing them and trying to kill them with a knife. We've had the cops here because the kids have caused traffic accidents and then took off and were hiding. We've taken a girl to the doctor after her brother raped her. My husband had to go back to the Amish house and make sure it was safe because the enitre Amish community was irate at the neighbor for turning her husband in for sexually molesting her mentally-challenged 6-year-old daughter. Live it and then decide if our assessments are based in reality. I am only commenting on what we have lived with for the last two years or so. It has been Hell. I am not making any of this up.


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## salmonslayer (Jan 4, 2009)

mammabooh said:


> Um, did you miss this part of my post?
> 
> "Now, I know that there have to be Amish communities that aren't like this, but we only know what we've witnessed over the last couple of years."
> 
> I said that I know they aren't all like this, but the ones around us are. Try living with it. It's not pleasant. We've had the mom and daughters hiding at our house because the oldest son was running around chasing them and trying to kill them with a knife. We've had the cops here because the kids have caused traffic accidents and then took off and were hiding. We've taken a girl to the doctor after her brother raped her. My husband had to go back to the Amish house and make sure it was safe because the enitre Amish community was irate at the neighbor for turning her husband in for sexually molesting her mentally-challenged 6-year-old daughter. Live it and then decide if our assessments are based in reality. I am only commenting on what we have lived with for the last two years or so. It has been Hell. I am not making any of this up.


 Sounds like some Baptists I know around here...I know there must be some that arent like that but I only know what we have witnessed. Or maybe its just that there are some bad people in every group and it has nothing to do with their religion?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Lazaryss said:


> Wow, that is one of the most prejudicial things I have read in a very long time. So because there were a couple or even a few that did horrible things, the entire group is horrible? There are bad seeds in EVERY type of group. I guarantee there are bad seeds in groups that YOU associate with. I think you need to take a good long look at yourself and the sick, twisted, nasty, vile thing you just said...


We must have read two different posts. I read MamaBooh's post as speaking of the group who live near her. And they do sound pretty sick and twisted, especially if they haven't shunned the offending members. You don't think child molesters are vile?


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## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

mammabooh said:


> Um, did you miss this part of my post?
> 
> "Now, I know that there have to be Amish communities that aren't like this, but we only know what we've witnessed over the last couple of years."
> 
> I said that I know they aren't all like this, but the ones around us are. Try living with it. It's not pleasant. We've had the mom and daughters hiding at our house because the oldest son was running around chasing them and trying to kill them with a knife. We've had the cops here because the kids have caused traffic accidents and then took off and were hiding. We've taken a girl to the doctor after her brother raped her. My husband had to go back to the Amish house and make sure it was safe because the enitre Amish community was irate at the neighbor for turning her husband in for sexually molesting her mentally-challenged 6-year-old daughter. Live it and then decide if our assessments are based in reality. I am only commenting on what we have lived with for the last two years or so. It has been Hell. I am not making any of this up.


When you phrase it the way you did it reads to sound like a condemnation of the whole group, rather than just a part - "Now, I know that there have to be Amish communities that aren't like this, but we only know what we've witnessed over the last couple of years."

I understand that you have experienced what you have experienced, but you might want to consider phrasing your statement differently if you don't want to have someone misinterpret it.


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## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> We must have read two different posts. I read MamaBooh's post as speaking of the group who live near her. And they do sound pretty sick and twisted, especially if they haven't shunned the offending members. You don't think child molesters are vile?


You and I clearly read it differently, and even the joking suggestion of that last statement is sick.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Lazaryss said:


> You and I clearly read it differently, and even the joking suggestion of that last statement is sick.


I wasn't joking. If you don't think MamaBooh has the right to call people like that vile, I would question what you do call vile.


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> We must have read two different posts. I read MamaBooh's post as speaking of the group who live near her. And they do sound pretty sick and twisted, especially if they haven't shunned the offending members. You don't think child molesters are vile?


Yes, that is exactly what I meant. I specified "this group", meaning the group that lives near me. Maybe some people don't realize it, but there are different orders of Amish. This one is the Swartzentruber sect.

When the teenaged girl was raped by her brother last summer, the other Amish families were very angry with my neighbors for housing her when she ran away from home. They think it is perfectly fine for that to go on. Her dad knew about it and didn't do anything to protect her. When my neighbor lady called the cops when she found out what her husband was doing to their daughter, she was ridiculed and chastized for turning him in. They tried pressuring her to not press charges, but , by then, the cops had enough evidence to put him away. I say a community that bands together to protect child molesters is messed up.


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## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

A sect of any kind is only as good as the people in it. 

The entire Amish philosophy in a nutshell is to live close to the natural world, to not let "progress" run away with them or cause them to forget what is important (faith and family), and to live with "demut"--- modesty, and to shun "hochmut"-- pride. 

A "prideful display" can take on many forms-- anything from personal jewelry, or fancy dress, even men's shirts having pockets is considered very controversial in the more strict communities. It is believed to imply that having a shirt pocket can be construed as showing off the fact that you own a lot of important things to PUT in that pocket. 

For some communities the level of strictness actually lives in the hearts of the plain folks as a form of pride. 
I remember reading a news story last year where one family in a sect decided that no one else in their community was living devoutly enough, so they went on a crime spree of assaulting their neighbors in their homes, holding them down and cutting the women's hair, and shaving the mens' beards. 

I admire the comittment it takes to the plain lifestyle to live off grid, to respect and care for all generations in a family, and I'm sure everyone here respects the self sufficient practices the anabaptist groups have preserved through the centuries--- but like any other group of people-- Baptists, Catholics, Gypsies, middle class america, poverty class canada, etc. you have to judge people individually. A religion or a class label, or a neighborhood does not render a judgement of a healthy soul, or a sick one. 

One's actions and outlook on life do-- what we people of the Christian faith refer to as "fruits of the spirit". 

As for MY impression on the Amish? I like how they live-- but I differentiate those that read me as I read them, or those that exemplify their own "hochmut" by believing they are living "right", and I am living "wrong" because I wear my hair uncovered and have electric appliances.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Lazaryss said:


> When you phrase it the way you did it reads to sound like a condemnation of the whole group, rather than just a part - "Now, I know that there have to be Amish communities that aren't like this, but we only know what we've witnessed over the last couple of years."
> 
> I understand that you have experienced what you have experienced, but you might want to consider phrasing your statement differently if you don't want to have someone misinterpret it.


IMHO, you read far more into the post than what was written. Her phrasing is just fine.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

I should know better than to assume that all who dress plain do so for similar reasons. I guess one of the things that strikes me though, is that conformity seems to be a driving force for many. As a lifelong nonconformist, I have a hard time with the idea of dress codes in the office, much less in my personal life!


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## scwit (Mar 2, 2011)

We've encountered many "plain" dressed folk in which you could see right through their clothing. Nothing modest about it and I truley makes no sense to me whatsoever to dress is dopey homemade clothes in such see through fabric.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

There is a local Amish family that brings produce to our local farmer's market - father, young son, and two teenage daughters. They never, ever make eye contact and the girls have extremely flat affects - no personality at all. I know they're to stay separate but it seems very odd that they seem so withdrawn.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

I think that, if I had some plain-dressing ne'er-do-wells living in my neighborhood, I'd probably keep some brightly colored spatterdashes that I could quickly put on by the front door so that I could go out and repel those scallywags by offending their sense of style and their decorative decorum.


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## lathermaker (May 7, 2010)

There is a family of plain people (Mennonite?) that sell at the craft fairs and farmer's markets around here. The two daughters always look so downtrodden and hopeless. The way their father talks to them, I can tell that they are counting the days until they are out of his house.

There are bad apples in all walks of life, I try not to label whole groups by the bad ones. What I do have a problem with, is people that do horrible things to women and children then hide like cowards under the guise of Religion.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

When I read the title, I thought you guys were talking about me. I belong to the blue jeans, T-shirt (animal pictures on the front of course), flip flops, and straw hat sect. It is modest, can't see through it, and I don't think a man has lusted after that get-up in over 30 years!


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## siberian (Aug 23, 2011)

Hey Airwolf, send me a pm and explain what you mean. I am really confused. Are you saying that they are a cult type religion from the middle east, or they as Jesus was, came from the middle east, :help:


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Miss Kay said:


> When I read the title, I thought you guys were talking about me. I belong to the blue jeans, T-shirt (animal pictures on the front of course), flip flops, and straw hat sect. It is modest, can't see through it, and I don't think a man has lusted after that get-up in over 30 years!


OMG! What a perfect response! :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:


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## plowhand (Aug 14, 2005)

Miss Kay said:


> When I read the title, I thought you guys were talking about me. I belong to the blue jeans, T-shirt (animal pictures on the front of course), flip flops, and straw hat sect. It is modest, can't see through it, and I don't think a man has lusted after that get-up in over 30 years!


 Hey now! Some of us fella's still look beyond the packaging, what's inside counts on both accounts.........


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## wanda1950 (Jan 18, 2009)

We have quite a few Mennonites in this area. They are very visible & recognizable due to their clothing. We shop at one of the stores & the young woman who works there is friendly but a little reserved. A young man also works there but I've never seen him work the register. In my experience the men are much more reserved--maybe avoiding women. 

I think people should dress in what they find pleasing, decency taken into account. Of course decent to some is pretty bare IMHO. 

I don't like the doctrine being upheld by a church that people have to dress a certain way. My grandparents were Holiness & wore no pants for women due to not wearing "men's" clothing--so silly to me when in Jesus' time everyone wore robes that look pretty much the same for men & women. Last church we attended, I have seen a lot of upper thighs & cleavage in bent over women and was afraid there'd be more on display. So at least the Mennonites don't have to face the possibility someone's drawers staring them in the face at church. I am thankful men's clothes cover more & don't remember more than one crack being revealed at church. Of course in everyday life they are numerous! Another problem the Mennonite suspenders take care of!

Miss Kay, I think we have the same wardrobe!!


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## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> We must have read two different posts. I read MamaBooh's post as speaking of the group who live near her. And they do sound pretty sick and twisted, especially if they haven't shunned the offending members. You don't think child molesters are vile?


Since my last answer went overboard, allow me to state that in no way shape or form would I ever think that child molesters are anything less than vile, and to even suggest otherwise is just sad.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Miss Kay said:


> When I read the title, I thought you guys were talking about me. I belong to the blue jeans, T-shirt (animal pictures on the front of course), flip flops, and straw hat sect. It is modest, can't see through it, and I don't think a man has lusted after that get-up in over 30 years!


You might be surprised as to what sort of "get-up" a man will lust after. A lot of that depends upon who is doing the wearing, and what kind of smiles are being exhibited.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Miss Kay said:


> When I read the title, I thought you guys were talking about me. I belong to the blue jeans, T-shirt (animal pictures on the front of course), flip flops, and straw hat sect. It is modest, can't see through it, and I don't think a man has lusted after that get-up in over 30 years!


You should see some of the funny outfits I wear around here, but DH says I could wear a sack and he'd find me alluring. 

On dressing off our homestead, I tend to wear nice clothing, often fitted, and stylish. I work in an office, am also a Realtor, so am expected to dress more professionally. Out in public, I can be wearing a flouncy black skirt and a bright colored blouse, but not stand out in a crowd. Come to think of it, if I wore very plain drab clothing, I would indeed stick out! That isn't common around here. In the summer, I wear brighter clothing, but not skimpy unless it is around my DH. I have always felt for gals who aren't comfortable wearing tank tops, as wearing one doesn't call any attention to me like it would to a woman who was more endowed. How a woman is built makes a difference in what clothing looks like on her, no doubt.


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## Sculkrusha (Feb 10, 2013)

Lazaryss said:


> Since my last answer went overboard, allow me to state that in no way shape or form would I ever think that child molesters are anything less than vile, and to even suggest otherwise is just sad.


Yeah, OK......get over it, move on.


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## pheasantplucker (Feb 20, 2007)

Getting back to the original idea of the thread...there is a significantly large population of Amish near our place. I have gotten to know a few, well enough to talk with them about their faith and beliefs. Someone hit the nail on the head earlier when they said their intent was to not be overly adorned and "flashy". So when this attitude was adopted by so many of the Amish, and they all began dressing in this style, it wasn't so far from the way most Americans dressed, 100-125 years ago...buttons instead of zippers, simple fabric, suspenders, natural materials, such as straw, etc. The rest of America though had it's clothing begin to evolve...whereas the Amish garb remained consistent. Now that the average person's clothing is wild colours, prints, elaborate materials, hemlines that hike and necklines that plunge, etc...we look at the Amish and see that their simplicity is radically different from what we see as "the norm"...and then some say, "Look they must be craving attention"...when that is not the case at all. The Amish I know are great people...I respect them and genuinely like them. I also know that many "English" I come into contact with, absolutely despise them...and insult them behind their backs. I don't know why anyone would have a problem with the group, unless there were legitimate concerns like people before mentioned...these folks attack them for the way they "smell" and their methods of transportation, the fact they own "so much property"...and they mock their clothing....
As far as abuse of women or children...I have never witnessed anything like that. The women and girls I see seem hardworking but content...


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## mamita (May 19, 2008)

I agree that dressing plain isn't 'standing out' in their own community. I also have no problem with our Amish neighbors, but agree there is good and evil everywhere. I will say that when I'm at the large flea market where lots of Amish also visit, I notice young girls with plunging necklines, pink or blue hair, short shorts, and street walker make-up standing out more than a gal in a blue dress. lol not that I care how anyone dresses, just saying. in my perfect world everyone would wear sweats.


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## mountainlaurel (Mar 5, 2010)

I belong to a conservative Menno church and I dress plain. WE do not dress to please you but for non conformity, "be not conformed to this world but be y transformed"
We also dress plain because of modesty, being we try not to cause our fellow brethen to have lust of the eyes. 

Yes, there are people who are wolves in sheep clothing. Yes, there are people for whom this is the way they were brought up and they aren't producing Christian fruit.Isn't there those kinds of people in all churches? Churches are for those who need help. If we were perfect, we wouldn't need Christ nor his church

There are many in the plain churches who act the way several people have described. But there are many people in the world who have their issues also.

Conservative Mennonites dress does change slowly. We use buttons, zippers, ect. on the cape dresses, we change hem lines. We have what I call Mennonite haute coutre. The style now is very long and with a high waist. Some churches set guidlines to avoid Menno haute coutre but usually these are OO Mennon or churches like Eastern or Fellowship.
Since I and my dh came from the outside, we are not Mennonite. Meaning we never will have the culture but we don't want to have the culture.God raised us in the families He wanted us raised in.

Many Old Orders does have some of the traits that are mentioned. My son just married a girl last week, who's mother was raised OO. The mother sees thing much differently than we do even though we belong to like churches now. All families are different even in the world as well.

Plain people think of themselves as non-conformists. Compared to the world they are; but it's all about community in the church. We treasure our church membership. We are one in our community. 

English is to Amish and Worldly is to Mennonite. Since most Menno's don't speak Dutch, we are English as well because that is our first tongue. Makes it easier to convert. I converted to Menno just like I would have converted to a Baptist church, for worship of God. And some for the lifestyle. I sent my kids to the church school to keep them away from the public school system. 

And there are lots of converts. My little church which is a mission church that was started to convert the wild hillbillies around here, has several families that are from non plain background. Another reason you stick out is because your last name is not German. At least ours isn't, one of the convert family in our churches is so they don't get asked about it when meeting plain people from other states.

If you would like to know more about the plain people, talk to one. I have people stop me where ever I am and ask me this or that or tell me about their relatives who might have been plain at one time. I listen and answer their questions as best as I can..
It's the clothes that give people the questions and my smile that makes them feel they can ask the questions.But Jesus is the reason.:goodjob:


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## vicki in NW OH (May 10, 2002)

My mom's side of the family has lots of plain folks (Mennonite mostly). Happy to report nary a child molester or pervert among them. They even manage to smile and laugh at times.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Matthew 23 is a great reminder from The Lord.

Yes, we are to 'come out and be separate'......but it is for the Lord.
Not to draw attention to us, but to attract others to Him.
Ultimately, it's all about Him, not us.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

vicki in NW OH said:


> My mom's side of the family has lots of plain folks (Mennonite mostly). Happy to report nary a child molester or pervert among them. They even manage to smile and laugh at times.


Plain people are very happy people for the most part. They laugh easily, and are just kind, friendly people. It's the English who worry so much and get snippy! LOL


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

bluesky said:


> There is a local Amish family that brings produce to our local farmer's market - father, young son, and two teenage daughters. They never, ever make eye contact and the girls have extremely flat affects - no personality at all. I know they're to stay separate but it seems very odd that they seem so withdrawn.


Perhaps their responses are die to both their environment at home and a part of the autism spectrum.

We know a family that has a number of members like that and they are dealing with autism.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Ardie/WI said:


> Perhaps their responses are die to both their environment at home and a part of the autism spectrum.
> 
> We know a family that has a number of members like that and they are dealing with autism.


That's certainly possible - I've only observed them for a few minutes at a time over the past three summers while standing in line to pay for my purchases. They are obviously a hard-working family and their vegetables are wonderful! I wonder too if they may just be very shy and careful with outsiders, which would be perfectly understandable, especially if they've not always been treated with kindness.


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## salmonslayer (Jan 4, 2009)

I had never been around any Amish until we moved here and to be honest before I met any I just thought they were a strange sort of cult but my opinion has changed significantly. The Amish in this area are industrious and relatively poor like the rest of us and they fully integrate into most community functions. They mostly seem happy, they converse with people freely and are friendly, and if there are some kind of cleanliness issues I sure have never noticed it, I usually feel like a bum when around a group of Amish.

Their religion and way of life isnt for me but then neither is most mainstream religions and yet I like living in an area where those beliefs can be freely practiced and faiths expressed. One thing no Amish person has ever done to me is criticize my lifestyle or quote some bible passage at me as if somehow thats going to magically transform me or convince me of the righteousness of the quoter. The Amish I have met seem pretty happy with their lot in life and have no problems with those of us who are English even if they dont want to be like us, too bad the reverse doesnt seem to hold true in many cases.


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

I have friends raised old order amish and old order mennonite. They are still mennonite although of a group that you can't pick out of a crowd by their dress.

They still follow the principles that can produce plain dress. They do believe in covering the pertinent parts. They do believe in gender distinction in dress, but believe it can be accomplished without women having to wear dresses or skirts all the time. They do believe in economical clothing. They see no need in letting those that deny Christ, or gay men, or those following the lifestyle many in the fashion industry follow tell women how to dress. They see no need in a man needing a magazine to tell him what to wear.

As to sin amongst them? Probably at about the same rate of those metaphorically throwing stones at them.


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## TRAILRIDER (Apr 16, 2007)

WOW, just wow. mammabooh, I am sorry that you have these folks for neighbors. I would find that hard to witness too. 

I know that bad people are everywhere and anywhere. Luckily my neighbors aren't bad folks. I don't go many places except work and back home. 
After serving as jury forewoman on the grand jury in my county I just don't want to be around alot of people. It was quite an experience. You just don't know what kind of people are out there, until its right in your face. 
I was on the grand jury every Weds. and Friday for 4 months. I had my share of sorry low life people.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Miss Kay, I'm sure you are gorgeous.

When I saw this topic, I thought first of a family that lives 15 or 20 miles from me. They show up to trade days and craft, antique show events. Their booth is filled with bake goods, and I always make a bee line for it when I see it. The style of dress is plain, I assume they are Mennonite, never asked. The girls are all friendly and happy, smiling and laughing and talking to customers. The food is good.

I notice the girls and think how pretty they are in the "simple" clothing, with no makeup, the litte caps they wear. I often wish more would dress in that manner.

My own DD, usually wears jeans and a variety of tops, but seldom wears makeup and she is constantly getting compliments. She is 35, and many times is thought to be a high school student.


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## wanda1950 (Jan 18, 2009)

There is good & bad everywhere. I've been in Evangelical churches most of my life & know they do good but I just read this: http://www.salon.com/2013/03/12/eva...gnoring_sexual_abuse_pedophilia_ring_partner/. I can see where wrongheaded teaching could lead to this. The insular nature of Amish type societies might prevent intervention, too.

We have watched the TV show The Amish Mafia & would like to hear from the Amish as to how much of this could be real.

My husband has done earth moving work for Mennonites quite often in the past & he speaks of their gracious behavior to him--where else will a worker get cold tea & homemade ice cream from an employer. There has never been even a hint of misbehavior here from the Mennonite community.


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

wanda1950 said:


> There is good & bad everywhere. I've been in Evangelical churches most of my life & know they do good but I just read this: http://www.salon.com/2013/03/12/eva...gnoring_sexual_abuse_pedophilia_ring_partner/. I can see where wrongheaded teaching could lead to this. The insular nature of Amish type societies might prevent intervention, too.
> 
> We have watched the TV show The Amish Mafia & would like to hear from the Amish as to how much of this could be real.
> 
> My husband has done earth moving work for Mennonites quite often in the past & he speaks of their gracious behavior to him--where else will a worker get cold tea & homemade ice cream from an employer. There has never been even a hint of misbehavior here from the Mennonite community.


Salon is a leftist progressive site. Progressives tend to be anti anything Christian. I don't trust anything they "report"on.

Any church that would promote abuse of children or women as justified in some way is absolutely not representative of true believers/followers of Christ.


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

This thread made me think about Independent Fundamental Baptists. At least the ones around here. Well, its mostly all the same church. Penecostal are dress only too but they don't stand out very much. However, the women in this particular church, might have their boobs and belly buttons covered but they DRESS UP! When you go into walmart you expect to see people dress normal.. and thus modestly. However, these "modest" people look like they are heading out to a 5 star restraunt. Their teenage girls walk around with as much make up as worldly public school counterparts except they have skirts on and modest shirts. But their curled beautiful hair and make up ... with their skirts make them look 25 yrs old, not 15. I am glad they aren't in daisy dukes but they draw A LOT of attention to themselves. A LOT... far more than if they were just walking around like the usual "worldly" girl in a teeshirt and shorts or pants. Specially in the winter- they really dress up and most of them looking absolutely/stunningly beautiful- but it draws attention to them instead of supposedly making a modesty statement. And thus, are lusted over far more by the men who walk past them then if they were just walking around in pants. Men, overall, are used to girls in short shorts, girls in tight pants etc. But a young beautiful woman, who dressed up and looks hot- you just don't see it around here much and therefore they REALLY stand out.. And IMO are totally the opposite of what they claim to be doing. Same with theiR MOTHERS!! I can be in walmart and see a woman from behind (usually a nice black mini skirt) and say to myself "oh I know where she goes to church" and she turns around and its like "oh its the pastors wife.. i knew it" And there are like 6-10 other ladies who are always dressed to the 9s in their "modest" clothing that absolutely sets them apart. So I totally know what you are talking about


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

Our local paper has done stories about the Amish Mafia show. Its a total fabrication. One big hoax. Almost every one of the actors on that show are just that. Every one of them have either left the faith or were never baptised into the faith in the first place. Most of them have been in trouble with the law, but not for any mob type activities. Their offenses are mostly along the lines of drunk driving and speeding and I think there were some drug charges in there somewhere too.

One of them is in jail right now for getting drunk and leading the police on a high speed chase.


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

LittleRedHen said:


> This thread made me think about Independent Fundamental Baptists. At least the ones around here. Well, its mostly all the same church. Penecostal are dress only too but they don't stand out very much. However, the women in this particular church, might have their boobs and belly buttons covered but they DRESS UP! When you go into walmart you expect to see people dress normal.. and thus modestly. However, these "modest" people look like they are heading out to a 5 star restraunt. Their teenage girls walk around with as much make up as worldly public school counterparts except they have skirts on and modest shirts. But their curled beautiful hair and make up ... with their skirts make them look 25 yrs old, not 15. I am glad they aren't in daisy dukes but they draw A LOT of attention to themselves. A LOT... far more than if they were just walking around like the usual "worldly" girl in a teeshirt and shorts or pants. Specially in the winter- they really dress up and most of them looking absolutely/stunningly beautiful- but it draws attention to them instead of supposedly making a modesty statement. And thus, are lusted over far more by the men who walk past them then if they were just walking around in pants. Men, overall, are used to girls in short shorts, girls in tight pants etc. But a young beautiful woman, who dressed up and looks hot- you just don't see it around here much and therefore they REALLY stand out.. And IMO are totally the opposite of what they claim to be doing. Same with theiR MOTHERS!! I can be in walmart and see a woman from behind (usually a nice black mini skirt) and say to myself "oh I know where she goes to church" and she turns around and its like "oh its the pastors wife.. i knew it" And there are like 6-10 other ladies who are always dressed to the 9s in their "modest" clothing that absolutely sets them apart. So I totally know what you are talking about


Oh, this makes me giggle! I grew up in an independant fundamental Baptist church, but we weren't allowed to dress like that...we had to wear big, flounsy, nerdy coulottes even if we went to Cedar Point. If that doesn't make a kid feel like a dork, I don't know what will. The church in town, however...wow! I was at a grocery store a couple of weeks ago on a Sunday, and, like you, knew exactly where some of the folks went to church without even talking to them.


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## OUVickie (Mar 8, 2003)

mountainlaurel said:


> I belong to a conservative Menno church and I dress plain. WE do not dress to please you but for non conformity, "be not conformed to this world but be y transformed"
> We also dress plain because of modesty, being we try not to cause our fellow brethen to have lust of the eyes.
> 
> 
> ...


What a lovely post, moutainlaurel, thank you for that explanation and sharing your experience!


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

mammabooh said:


> Oh, this makes me giggle! I grew up in an independant fundamental Baptist church, but we weren't allowed to dress like that...we had to wear big, flounsy, nerdy coulottes even if we went to Cedar Point. If that doesn't make a kid feel like a dork, I don't know what will. The church in town, however...wow! I was at a grocery store a couple of weeks ago on a Sunday, and, like you, knew exactly where some of the folks went to church without even talking to them.


I used to attend this church in the 90s and it wasn't like that back then. But the pastor changed and the wife (the one who has a black mini skirt even though shes coming to walmart after teaching a class in their school/academy) Decided to really ramp up her clothing after she was promoted to pastors wife from youth pastors wife (he got promotion i mean) she went from modest to "mazing like shes going out on the town.. not quite hookerish though lol! but after that, the ladies in the church dressed to be like her. They envied her. The older she has gotten, a bit heavier the makeup but they still do their best to make it more like a country club instead of a baptist church. Soo different than what it used to be. There is another IFB church in town and they are normal. They still wear dresses but they blend in like the penecostal. But yet there is a huge IFB college in Indiana and while they have to wear longer skirts and even open toed shoes are banned- make up and curling irons are not banned and they still look absolutely gorgeous... and thus, sets them apart from everyone else.. They don't blend in at all. Even the men, with their suits even in walmart, you know, it just doesnt' blend in. At least though I never see women drooling over them like I see men (even older men) look upon the women and young teenagers


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## wanda1950 (Jan 18, 2009)

I instantly thought of the Duggar girls with their big hair.


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

littleredhen, am I understanding you correctly? Do you think women should dress less modestly or less beautifully because most others do?

I've listened to comments from folks trashing some of our pentecostal women for "drawing attention to themselves being so dressed up and done up so beautifully" when they were just wearing jeans skirts, long sleeved tee shirts, had their long hair in buns and no makeup, wearing sneakers. Nothing expensive, nothing flashy, just very feminine. Is that wrong because some of us, me included, like to be sloppy in our jeans and tees? 

I like the idea of women setting their standards and adhering to them, even if the rest of the world decides nudity is in.


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## lordoftheweeds (Dec 27, 2012)

The only logical way to decide which is a better way to dress would be for all you ladies to post pics of you dressed plainly and pics of you in Daisy dukes and skimpy shirts, then we could all vote our preferences.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

vicki in NW OH said:


> My mom's side of the family has lots of plain folks (Mennonite mostly). Happy to report nary a child molester or pervert among them. They even manage to smile and laugh at times.


I have an Amish friend who tells some pretty funny Amish jokes :clap:


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## wanda1950 (Jan 18, 2009)

my3boys said:


> Salon is a leftist progressive site. Progressives tend to be anti anything Christian. I don't trust anything they "report"on.
> 
> Any church that would promote abuse of children or women as justified in some way is absolutely not representative of true believers/followers of Christ.



No intention to inject politics--the lawsuit & accusations have been made & judgement will eventually be rendered. This can be looked up--I read for information at many sites--just happened to see this article recently. There's a lot of smoke there. 

Anyway, my point is that there in evil most everywhere in the world--doubt there's a denomination or religion or party or faction, etc., without some rotten people in it. I think of these as stumbling blocks. 

I agree that true Christians abuse no one.


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## FarmChix (Mar 3, 2013)

KentuckyDreamer said:


> I adore plain dressing. I love the "modesty suits" ( bathing suits ), etc. Since I can remember I was drawn to hoop skirts and Victorian clothing. It is just who I am...
> At home I wear pre 1840 garb but rarely venture out of my yard wearing my usual. While it is what makes me feel the best about myself, I know it can be an embarrassment for my sons and I honestly do not like the stares. So I do dress in long modern skirts when I venture out. I long for the day when I live on a homestead and never have to wear modern clothing again.
> 
> I wanted to try the cape dresses but was afraid others would think I was appropriating another culture.
> ...


My son and fiance live in Canal and I will be living about 10 miles north of you here soon.....I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion on the dress.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Besides I've seen Mennonite women in pants- they just wore their dresses over it.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

As a Christian I am often offended by the lack of respect for the Lord in the way people dress for church. I don't think you need to wear floor length dresses and long sleeved shirts to be modest, but the other extreme is offensive. Your skirt should cover your butt and your neckline should not show your everything to your navel when you lean over. I also don't want to see the mens underware or plumbers crack. You don't need to dress Amish to be modest, but if you are a Christian you should dress modest enough not to offend. I pretty much live in jeans and/or slacks but I guarantee they are modest. Often times jeans/slacks are much more modest than even a longer dress depending on what you are doing. 

Freedom of religion allows each person to follow their own beliefs and unless they are doing something wrong should be allowed peace in doing so. It really isn't about how we see them, its all about where their heart's are that matters. We had a lady in our church who always dressed like a hooker, but her heart was right. Her problem was her stupid spouse who wanted her to dress as she did. Personally I would have told him to take a hike, but she felt she was honoring him by following his wishes.

I guess moderation in all things would be my motto regarding dress.


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## HOTW (Jul 3, 2007)

I don't think you understand that in their world they do not stand out amongst themselves and that is the point. To live to a standard manner of dress that emphasizes not the body but the spirit.


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## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

It may get them noticed, but not for their anatomy. Plain style clothong doesnt really show off women's curves and sucb like todays styles do.


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## mountainlaurel (Mar 5, 2010)

KentuckyDreamer said:


> I adore plain dressing. I love the "modesty suits" ( bathing suits ), etc. Since I can remember I was drawn to hoop skirts and Victorian clothing. It is just who I am...
> At home I wear pre 1840 garb but rarely venture out of my yard wearing my usual. While it is what makes me feel the best about myself, I know it can be an embarrassment for my sons and I honestly do not like the stares. So I do dress in long modern skirts when I venture out. I long for the day when I live on a homestead and never have to wear modern clothing again.
> 
> I wanted to try the cape dresses but was afraid others would think I was appropriating another culture.
> ...


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