# Going Crazy



## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

We are a family of six; husband and wife with four daughters ages 10, 8, 5, and 3. We live in a rented 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom manufactured home on acreage.

I am finally fed up with the house and property (yard) constantly being a disaster area. 

I've been unemployed/underemployed for over two years now and wife is working part-time. Before that DW was a SAHM and my feelings were as long as the kids were taken care of, I didn't care what the house looked like.

Well the kids are older now and I would think capable of helping, which they do in some small ways, but typically only when asked.

Adding to the issue is DW is a pack rat in denial. She has to keep everything because "if it doesn't work in this house, it might work in the next one". So, we have boxes that have never been unpacked from two out of state moves! I am tempted just to toss them into a dumpster without even opening them. If we haven't used it in over four years, do we really need to keep it around? Some of the stuff is IN the house and we have limited closet and storage space so it ends up being piled on counters. I'm talking inches high piles which are constantly sliding off and then getting re-stacked until they slide off again.

And the clothes! All purchased at yard sales and thrift shops (PTL), but still...piles and piles everywhere. I've seen piles two feet high in the girls' bathroom. Many times they have no idea whether it is a dirty or clean pile.

I'll admit I could be doing more to help, but I find it extremely frustrating to clean just to have it destroyed 30 minutes later (and that is not an exaggeration). So, I essentially just give up and bounce between going crazy and not caring if the place burned to the ground one day.

Also, seriously, I don't want any of this stuff. Aside from furniture, which you could consider mine as well, I could fit my clothing, shoes, toiletries and personal possessions in my Geo Metro. So, my attitude tends toward "If I didn't want it and I don't use it, why should I take care of it?"

DW claims she has been asking me for three years to help her organize. Maybe, but 1) she doesn't consider the cost- Rubbermaid containers to keep out the mice, are not cheap. We've tried boxes just to have them destroyed by mice or weather and 2) most of my ideas about how to get things done and organize are "poo-pooed" by her, because it's not the way she would do it. Okay, fine, we are different, but WHY DID YOU ASK ME TO HELP THEN?!? Even when I give her permission to just TELL me what to do, she says she can't do that in good conscience because she would feel like a nag.

Basically, I would like to establish some simple rules because I believe they would bring some order to the chaos. DW is reluctant since she thinks she is the "tough one" and would be left the one enforcing the new rules. I think she just doesn't like rules, since she grew up in a strict household. If she didn't clean one thing correctly, she had to do the entire thing over again.

I'm not thinking of anything outlandish here, just things like:

No clothes/toys/debris in walkways or hallways (they are tripping hazards while trying to navigate at night and the cause of things being broken and destroyed).

No toys in the kitchen (it's the main entrance and exit path for us- same reasons as above and removing them makes for much more work when it time to cook).

If it's in the garbage can, it stays in the garbage can. The girls are crazy about cutting things out and making little crafts and books that to the naked eye look like trash. That's because it is, literally! They pull out things I have thrown away and turn them into what they think is some priceless artifact. Usually I just smile and say, "How nice!", then when I find it three months later shoved under the recliner and covered with dust. I throw it away when they are not looking.

All eating ware must be returned to the kitchen immediately after use with plastic straws removed from the glasses and discarded (I've literally found encrusted and molded dishes around the house and I spend a tenth of my time removing gooey straws and throwing them into the trash- it just slows thing down- I am the one who loads and unloads most of the family dishes).

One non-dish-using snack after dinner (if I get the dinner dishes done, which is rare, there will be another pile waiting to go into the dishwasher. If I wait until morning, they get added to the breakfast stuff and voila!- not enough room in the dishwasher and dishes constantly being piled up on the kitchen counters). If they are hungry, they can eat dinner at dinner time.

Reduce the amount of clothing. For everything that comes in, something must go out. I'm dead serious when I tell you my wife has at least 20 pairs of jeans. Some vary in style but the majority you can't tell one from the other. I have three pair that I wear with another three pair that I am keeping in the event I can actually lose some weight. That's not an issue with her; she fluctuates from 120-125. The girls are no different. They have so much clothing it's piled and stacked and overflowing from their closets.

You can only wear 2 sets of clothing a day (hey, they are girls) and any more than that must come with a valid explanation and you must have approval from a parent. They will literally change from their pajamas into day clothes, play outside, decide to run in the sprinklers, change into bathing suits, change back into ANOTHER DIFFERENT pair of day clothes, get that dirty then change into another set. Multiply that by four!

Those are just an examples of rules that I think would go a long way to bringing some control to the chaos.

Does your family have any of these? How do you enforce them? Fines? Spanking? Loss of use of the item for a time period? Any ideas? I'm looking for creative, easy-to-follow ones.


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

> *If we haven't used it in over four years, then do we really need to keep it around.*


Our rules for our family of *7* is that if it hasn't been used in the last 3 years it has to go. If we need it after that, we'll by it used, 2nd hand store or borrow it.

We usually DONATE everything to needy Vets, shelters, etc., but lately been "donating" to immediate family that are in the same boat as the rest of us, HARD TIMES. If they sell it at yard sales or where ever at least we know it went to some one in need.


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

I think it was flylady ( www.flylady.net )who said, "You can't organize clutter. You can only get rid of it." Buying totes would only eventually increase your problem as your wife buys replacements for the things she can't see anymore. I think her mind has to consciously change for a real difference to be made.

I'd make the girls get rid of the bulk of their clothes. You can't force your wife to get onboard, but she sounds like she'll come along once you get firm with the girls. Flylady's website has instructions on how to declutter. If I were you I'd spend some time reading the site with the wife and pray that she gets inspired. If, as I assume, you're part of a traditional family where your wife is generally left to manage household things, it will be difficult to make this change stick yourself. 

Good luck


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## kyweaver (Nov 30, 2009)

A lady i knew growing up had a great solution for de cluttering her basement (2 grown kids, 2 at home). She hauled everything out in the yard. If the kids wanted it, they brought it back inside and put it away. Anything else, she got rid of. She figured if it wasn't important enough for them to bring inside themselves, they didn't really want it. 
That is not to say everyone was happy that day.


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## DW (May 10, 2002)

What you have must fit in the closet...time to donate some clothes. We have never had extra closet space and I don't have piles. The two older children can help sort.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

I remember asking for advice from my ex's aunt about his pack rat habits.

She said simply make things quietly disappear and he won't even notice and he didn't.

So, simply get rid of some of the boxes your wife is hoarding one at a time. those piles of kid's clothing can do the same thing. I'm betting that if nobody sees them go, the stuff won't even be missed.

If your children complain, tell them, "My house, my rules." Those girls need some disciplining and, since your wife won't teach them good habits, it's up to you. You're home all day so you can do the de-cluttering.


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## Kris in MI (May 30, 2002)

I have four kids too, although mine are much older now than yours (20, 17, 16, 12).

Are you planning on having more? I ask because if not, first thing to do is get rid of EVERYTHING your dds have outgrown. Clothes, toys, baby supplies, crib, etc. When I had my "no more babies" garage sale, it was amazing how much more room I had in the house!

After that, pare down those clothes. I understand saving clothes from one child to use for another (it only makes economic sense--I mean, you allready own it and it's still useful, so why spend more money later to replace it?). BUT, each child doesn't need 20 outfits all the same size! I would imagine laundry is something done just about everyday (I remember having a 'daily laundry allowance' of 1 load per day just to keep the dirty clothes mountain from becoming the size of Everest when my kids were little). So, if laundry is being done often, there is always clean clothes available. For each child, keep no more than 7 good/school and 7 play/work outfits plus a few for special occasions/church. That's probably about all you can stuff into each child's dresser and closet anyway. Get rid of the rest. You really don't need to save anything that's stained or getting worn thin, I guarantee the kids will constantly stain stuff that can then be recycled into work/play clothes. And new clothes will always appear from grandparents at Christmas and birthdays.

The clothes that are being saved for the younger siblings to grown into DO NOT go in the bedrooms. Put them in plastic totes with lids according to size and season, label each box and store them in the basement, attic, an outbuilding, somewhere other than in your daily living space. About every six months go through and get rid of everything your youngest child has outgrown. If you aren't having more, there's no reason to keep outgrown stuff.

Younger kids usually want to save everything, so you might not have much luck with the next suggestion, but it's worth a try. Have them go through their toys/games/etc and pick out anything they don't want. You might be amazed and they might actually decide to part with some stuff. Of course, anything broken that you can't fix easily goes.


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## JanS (Jul 28, 2002)

I'd start by giving the kids rules and chores and enforcing them with or without your wife's help. You can't just tell a child to go clean up their room. No, you have to show them, many times. Once everything has a place they can be expected to return things to that place. 

To make things easier on them, start by paring down what they own. I'd do this by categories. And since you complained about clothing, and I've noticed that the majority of mess on hoarding and Clean House-type shows is often clothing, start there. Everything comes out of the drawers and closets. Nothing goes back in that is damaged or doesn't fit. Rag pile, donation pile, hand-me-down pile....one box per size if you're saving for a younger child. If you don't have plastic storage bins use cardboard boxes for now, that's no worse than having clothes on the bathroom floor. Each child has a certain amount of drawer and closet space, and when it's full, that's it. After that, move on to the clothes on their bedroom floor, the bathroom, stuff piled near the washer etc. until you have sorted through everything in the house. Now you make the rule that if you find something out of place (bathroom floor, piled on the dresser rather than inside), there are consequences. And the rule that if a new piece of clothing comes in the house, an old one goes out.

After that move on to toys. Sort into piles: damaged, give away, save for younger child (but saving very little). Again, anything that stays has a place, if it doesn't have a place it goes, and if the child doesn't return it to that place, consequences.

I know someone who has a little basket in the children's room and that's where pajamas go in the morning so they can be worn another night. You might want to do that for your girls....when you change into your swimsuit, play clothes are folded and go HERE, then you put them back on later.

Dirty dishes: when my kids were young we had the rule that eating was done in the kitchen. Nothing other than water allowed in the livingroom or bedrooms. Sometimes we ate in front of a special tv show but that was a treat. This cuts down on dishes left all over the house and surprise dishes showing up just as you've finished the washing up. Another thought: if the kids eat outside of mealtimes, they can squirt a little soap on a sponge and wash their own things. Clean dishes in the drainer are better than dirty dishes on the counter.

Growing up, we all had a certain cup and even a cereal bowl and spoon. Makes it easy to figure out who isn't cleaning up. When we got to be teens and were using two towels each every day (times 5 kids) my mom gave us each two towels of our own color and hung towel bars on the back of bedroom doors so they could be re-used. You can imagine how much laundry that saved.

But in the end, no matter how you do it, it's all going to come down to consistent enforcement and consequences for those who don't follow along. Work on one thing at a time, and when the kids get it, move on to the next thing.


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

I think we are making some progress.

In DW's defense, she does occasionally go through and purge things, but her level of acceptable and mine are two different things.

We have three very large, overstuffed garbage bags of clothing going to the thrift shop today. 

The good thing about the clothing is that it cost pennies and when it gets damaged by grass stains or barbed wire fences, it gets tossed with no regrets about what it cost. We rarely buy anything new.

She also went through the toys several weeks back and got rid of many. The issue there is that sometimes the kids (all different ages) play with certain things for weeks, then get tired and move onto something else. We have a large tote of Barbie stuff that is destined for the garage for now since they seem to have lost interest.

We also had three (sometimes four) girls in one small room. It was basically kind of a sleeping room with clothing for a couple of the girls. Then they had the other bedroom as a playroom with their toys and a TV/DVD player. When they cleaned their room, they constantly squabbled over which area was who's responsibility.

Now we have two girls in each room with bunk beds. They are excited about a weekly contest on who's room is cleanest. The winners get a small prize. 

I like the idea of seven outfits each, but we also have to consider winter versus summer clothing, jackets, sweatshirts, shorts, "skorts", dresses, etc.

One thing I have always tried to stress is that it is easier to keep the house clean daily rather than spend an entire weekend cleaning it, so I'll be working on consistency with that.

I think the "they can have what fits in their storage areas" philiosopy is a good one.

Thanks for all the input!


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## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

and i really would love to stress to you to get them kids on track now--i am still working on mine and they are teens. if my girls leave something out, and i either have to say something, look around it, over it, or anything more than 3 times, its out. 

many times i say to pick up something as i'm cleaning. they will come take it--then drop it in another spot! very maddening. so now, its put it away, (not just take it from this spot) or its gone. and yes, i did get rid of stuff that made them mad at me. oh well.

mine are 13 and 15, old enough to buy their own clothes. i help a little but if i see socks laying around, and wind up in the trash, i will cut them back. i am not going to give stuff or money to throw away over laziness! when they were younger, i'd take the item and they'd have to earn it back doing some chores outside the everyday normal chores. find same item again, it just was gone, quietly. and now they are whining about having to spend their own money on school clothes--uh, i am not making them, they want those clothes, they will ahve to buy them! and if they buy them, funny how much more they care how those clothes are cared for!


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## dragonfly65 (Sep 29, 2002)

Just remember in your cleaning "contest" that everyone needs some kind of positive reinforcement/reward if they did a good job cleaning with an extra reward for the "winner". Some kids are naturally better at cleaning than others and it will quickly become frustrating for those that are always "losing" to the other sibling if there is no positive reason for them to continue. 

My kids quickly learned that anything left in the living areas was tossed by my husband - and woe to you if he stepped on it. Their rooms are still an issue, but they are all young adults now and nagging doesn't help. Every so often my husband gives an order to clean and they do it. They were all taught how to clean thier room efficiently (found a kids book at the time about it) but it only really "took" for 2 of them. Our oldest is now married with 2 kids and having her own place and family has helped her "clean up her act". I think our younger son is simply gonna be a hopeless case til he gets a wife.


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## MontanaKJ (Aug 10, 2009)

Find the book "Too Much Stuff". This was the best thing we ever did.

1) it help set up a plan of attack. You must map each room of the house and decide how each room should be used. Is the kitchen also where the girls do their homework? It forces everyone to work together so nobody is left out and no one ends up with hurt feelings.

2) It forces you to get rid of stuff. It doesn't have to be done in a day. We took 6 months. And the book states it can take a year or more. The idea is to get rid of a little everyday.

3) It sets up an organizational schedule for maintaining. What's the point of throwing away if the family pack rat will only buy more. One of my favorite tips was for the kids. If they receive a new toy as a gift, then they must choose a toy to donate. Not only does it keep the house on track, but it teaches the kids the value of donating to someone less fortunate.

4) Learn to use rooms the way they were designed. The dining room is for eating, not for playing. The bedroom is for sleeping not eating (this will stop the missing dishware).

Its worth a shot!!


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