# If it isn't a snake...it's a shotgun....



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

This morning got another fright as I was refreshing everyone's water buckets. Inside the barn laying on the bedding and blending in quite well not 3 feet away from me was another copperhead.....

Calmly I "ran" back into the house, got my Mossburg and loaded it with 3 shells (low intensity type that had been given to me by gun shop owner). Went back out and it was gone. As I stood looking I saw it laid out next to the wall about 2 ft from where it had been. Taking aim (from my hip) I shot it and it jumped and crawled under the bedding. Again I shot at where it had crawled and, again, it jumped and crawled out making an attempt to crawl up into a crevice in the wall's corner. I had one shell left but my gun would not fire. 

In trying to figure out why my semi-automatic was not firing that third shell I realized only one shell had been ejected and, though the 2nd shell had obviously gone off, its casing had not been ejected; thus the 3rd shell could not get into the chamber. In fact it was lodged in that area. It was quite difficult getting that unfired shell out; and when I did I saw the casing of the other. I could not get that casing out. 

So I got a hoe and finished off the snake with the hoe, hitting the barn wall as often as I hit the snake; but I did kill the copperhead...a young one still 3 ft long.

A dear friend tried to explain to me how to take the barrel off and, thus, hopefully remove the shell casing; but I have not been able to get the barrel off the gun. In fact, as I was manipulating the gun I must have done something wrong because now I cannot even pull the lever back to see the back side of the casing that is stuck. So I put the pieces back (just the large nut and washer-type thing) in place and attempted to pull the lever back again; however, I couldn't. So I called the gun shop and, though the owner is out of town for holidays, he told me to bring it in Monday which I plan to do. 

In the meantime I'm praying no more copperheads show up and I'm searching the web to see if I can find out how to dislodge the lever and take the barrel off. Apparently it should be easy; so I must be doing something wrong. Just don't know what it is. Any information would be appreciated as I sure don't like being out here this time of year without a "working" shotgun.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Semi autos rely on recoil and resistance to operate properly.

By shooting from the hip it's likely there wasn't enough resistance, therefore not allowing the bolt to cycle all the way back. That causes the "double-feed" situation you described.

There is a release button on the side or bottom of the receiver that has to be held down to allow you to pull back the bolt without pulling the trigger if the gun is cocked.

If you're certain it's a fired case in the chamber, you should be able to just pull the trigger so as to release the bolt lock.

You should be able to find an online drawing of the gun to show you the location of the release.

Once the bolt is back you should be able to remove the large nut at the end of the magazine tube that holds the barrel in place, allowing you to slide it out of the receiver.


----------



## ridgerunner1965 (Apr 13, 2013)

I would recommend that you get a double barrel shotgun or at least a pump. even a single shot break open gun can be reloaded quickly with a small amount of practice.

that auto is not doing you any favors. the low intensity shells you speak of may not have enuf spunk to operate the action of a automatic reliably. they will work fine in a pump,double or single shot gun.

you seem inexperienced in fire arms. the types I mentioned will be much more friendly for you to use.


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Get a few guineas. They took care of in Texas for me


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Stick with the hoe. Leave the firearms alone.


----------



## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> *Semi autos rely on recoil and resistance to operate properly.*
> 
> By shooting from the hip it's likely there wasn't enough resistance, therefore not allowing the bolt to cycle all the way back. That causes the "double-feed" situation you described.
> 
> ...


Agree 100% IF the gun's inertia driven, gas gun however should sill function fine as it relies on gas pressure not a combination of payload an resistance.

Inertia guns can have issues with light loads (Less than 1 1/8th 3 Dram) regardless of "shoulder resistance", but I've got a well broken in Benelli M1S90 that functions with 1oz loads just fine. 

AS to the malfunction, really too may variables to sort out. Questions like the ammo, gun condition (lubed, clean etc.) could all effect reliability. I've got both gas and inertia guns and honestly a modern decently made semi-shotgun that's maintained and fed decent ammo is a pretty boringly reliable gun. Just hang out on a skeet, trap or sporting class range and watch guys go through hundreds of rounds at a time without an issue.


----------



## blanket (May 28, 2013)

we went thru this a while back but the advice to get a break open shotgun and practice met with deaf ears. Good luck with the snakes


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Chuck R. said:


> Just hang out on *a skeet, trap or sporting class range* and watch guys go through hundreds of rounds at a time without an issue.


How many of them are shooting low recoil loads from the hip?


----------



## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> How many of them are shooting low recoil loads from the hip?


The comment was based on the general reliability of semis, not the OPs particular mode of shooting. Kind of a common sense thing.......


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Chuck R. said:


> The comment was based on the general reliability of semis, not the OPs particular mode of shooting. Kind of a common sense thing.......


My answer was based on her mode of shooting.

Even a gas gun needs enough resistance to allow the bolt to travel fully to the rear and it's obvious this one didn't, hence the double feed.

There can be multiple things going on that could cause this type of malfunction, but shooting from the hip is a likely contributor.

It also explains why more than one shot was needed.

Had she shouldered the gun and aimed, the snake wouldn't have required a second shot.


----------



## ridgerunner1965 (Apr 13, 2013)

another thing a lot of people don't realize is with a shot gun it takes a bit of distance to do what a shotgun is known for. basically hitting a target that you would miss with a rifle or pistol.

at 10,15 or 20 feet with a shot gun you are basically shooting a rifle as the pattern of the shot has not had time to open up and do what a shotgun is supposed to do. so carefull aiming is required at close distance even with a shot gun.

as a aside, I fought a war with copperheads here for many years.actually killed 4 inside my crappy trailer house and many more in my yard. I kept a pitchfork by my back and front doors. once I got all the brush cleared away to about 50 yrds from the house and keep everything mowed short,they went away.

also some good barn cats keep the rodents down which is all the snakes are looking for anyway.


----------



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Hmmmm While I very much appreciate the constructive criticisms you all need to know I'm doing the best I can with what I have. And I'm actually doing quite well despite the two problems I've encountered.

Getting another gun Is not an option for me; nor do I want a different gun. And the first time I posted about a conflict with a copperhead was when I had gone thru a rather painful upset and my nerves were quite raw. Thus, when I saw the copperhead it was "overload" on my nerves and I could not remember how to load or shoot the gun. At that time the information/suggestions I received here did not at all fall on deaf ears as I went to a gunshop and got a lesson about loading and even shooting. This time when I encountered the copperhead I was quite calm. It was not I this time that acted up but the shotgun that mal-functioned. 

I do have an appointment...again...with the kind guy at the gun shop; and I'm sure he will be able to get the wedged-in shell out of the barrel. This gun has done this twice already, i.e. fired once, ejected that shell, fired twice and kept the shell, thus was unable to load the 3rd bullet. The gun shop owner will probably be able to tell me why this is occurring and maybe even fix it so it won't happen again.

Yes I do understand my shooting from the hip may have contributed. The gentleman at the gun shop knows that is the way I shoot; so I'm sure he will talk with me about it. He did give me some "lighter" shot that he said would not give as much a kick as the heavy load I had been using. It was this lighter load I was using this time and I did notice the backfire was not nearly as hard on me. Still the gun acted the same by not ejecting that 2nd shell casing. So...…..


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

The "lighter loads" would add to the problem of faulty ejection.


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

You really should trade it for a double barrel, mush simpler to operate and take care of. Was there a particular reason you didn't go that route?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

motdaugrnds said:


> The gun shop owner will probably be able to tell me why this is occurring and maybe even fix it so it won't happen again.


The most common causes are using loads that are too weak, a dirty chamber, or a lack of lubrication on the bolt and receiver.

There could be damaged parts but that would tend to make it malfunction every time.

You might want to consider mounting a small light in such a way that the center of the beam shines near the point of impact at close range so you will be better able to "aim" rather than just "point". 

A laser sight would work even better but would probably be more expensive.


----------



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

...updating...

Just returned from visiting with the nice guy at the gun shop. He took the Mossburg apart, easily removed the casing and then gave the gun a thorough examination. He told me the gun was very clean and in good condition. When I mentioned shooting from my hip, he said that might have contributed but he showed me the shell casing he had removed from the barrel. It was a bit blossomed at the end. He told me it was not one of the best shells to use even in "light" loads. The full box of light loads I had purchased from him I've not touched yet. Not even opened the box. These shells were the few he had given me a couple of years ago to use for "practice" as the heavy loads were knocking me too hard. Thus, I'm to not use these anymore but am to open the new box of light loads he had sold me back then.

This kind guy oiled different parts of the gun and told me if it acted up again, he would polish the insides of the barrel a bit. He would not charge me any $$ and, instead, told me he was going to get it fixed for me. WOW!!

He also told me to stand farther from the snake...I had been less than 5 ft near it so I do know the spread was not that much. I must be a really good shot to have hit it at all.  

Anyway, I'm back home with all those old light-load bullets in one box put in the back shelf; and I have the new light loads in front so I will make sure to grab them if I encounter another tormentor. (Actually these snakes are quite beautiful. I remember the first one crawling on the grass right before I sat my car wheel on top of it. They are really pretty snakes.) Strang, also, this snake did not act aggressive; and I thought all copperheads were aggressive unless they happen to be a mother about to deliver. It had just laid there watching me; and when I returned was simply attempting to leave. I just wouldn't let it....


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Glad it's working out for you.

Maybe you can get out on some bare dirt and practice to get an idea of how far back you need to be to get enough spread without being too far away.


----------



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Yes I'm quite aware that I need to be much farther away than the 4 ft I was this time. I'm just quite doubtful I could even see a snake that is 20-30 ft from me.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

motdaugrnds said:


> I'm just quite doubtful I could even see a snake that is 20-30 ft from me.


You wouldn't need to get that far if you had some way to be sure where the center of the pattern would hit. 

That's why a light or laser would be a big help. 
It would allow you to actually aim at the head.

Practicing on some bare dirt would show you where most of the shot is going.


----------



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

BFF, that's a great idea! Will call around and see if local shops carry it. Maybe the gun shop does. Thanks so much.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Like they said, practice.
Practice shooting it, practice loading it, unloading it and taking it apart.
Practice until you know what the gun is capable of and what you are capable of.
Practice until you could operate it in your sleep.
You'll be the best snake killer in your county 
I have a Super Comanche single shot .410 pistol, and I had to practice shooting at sticks (snake simulators) so I knew where to aim. 
Because of the sights on that gun, I was shooting way low.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I didn't read all the above comments but.

mossberg semi autos need gas , light target loads have less gas pressure than heavy loads may be part of it 

how you hold the gun may be part of it s BFF pointed out

however I will deal with clearing an hull from a shotgun.

most trap ranges I have been to have a fiberglass clearing rod often a 1/2 inch or 5/8 inch fence post the small push in type that they keep at the scoring stand , because after all day of shooting trap the guns get sooted up enough on cheap trap loads that someone sticks one in the chamber.

they have fiberglass because they get left out in the weather and are less likely than wood to break , a wooden dowel would also work it needs to freely slide in an out of your barrel and a good measure is you should be able to easily slip a spent hull over the end of the clearing rod because that is what you will be doing but the hull will still be in your gun but not too thin it needs to be sturdy.

even though you are sure the round fired place the safety on and make sure your in a safe direction.

you just can't seem to pull hard enough on the bolt handle , so you place the rod up the barrel push the gun down on the rod as you pull the bolt handle the rod is on a block of wood or some other flat surface so it doesn't push into the dirt the rod is cut long enough that your barrel won't contact the ground even when the chamber is fully open so about 5-6 inches longer than the barrel is of course at the trap range they are usually extra long because you may see barrels up to 32 inches 

the end that goes up the barrel is beveled at the end just a bit to make it slide inside the spent hull easier , that way it is pushing on the hull which is pushing on the bolt face this typically gets the hull out fairly easily.

as others have said practice , both for you and to insure reliable cycling you may need to change shells but the only way you will know is to try what you have and if they fail to cycle the gun try a different load virtually anything will kill a snake for shot loads , small shot size 7 1/2 . 8 , or 9 shot are all good the higher the number the smaller the shot diameter.

a weapon mounted light that shines where the gun is pointed is also a very good idea it will help you aim and see in the dark corners as well as at night.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

a guy a shoot with in league runs 3 gun he bought 5 cases so 1250 rounds of shot shells because he could get a deal on them he fired a few to make sure his gun cycled them but when he started running fast in a match the gun stared ripping the brass off the plastic hulls on ejection , he found out the issue on the shotgun stage of a match he had to pay 225 dollars to get into. 

he is lucky it only cost him the entry fee , if you find out your ammo is bad or your gun doesn't like it when you really need it is even more expensive.


----------



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Great information Pete and, as usual, you are always kind in your presentation. Thank you.


----------

