# Read your deeds people.



## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say as survival oriented preppers and homesteaders we collectively cherish our land and homes and would fight to protect our property against any unwanted intrusions (tresspassing specificaly in this case). We dream, prepare for, invest in and work hard for the ground we toil over. In my opinion, something that provides us with so much sustinance, pleasure, and fills us with such pride is worth protecting.

In many posts people have (me included) implied deadly force against home intrusions. Fine. Just think before you act...

Without going into specifics about what happened to me (as I can't, at least not on the internet) Read your deeds people. Any utility buried on, near or across your property is on a dedicated utility easement. Utility company employees have unfettered access along the easement to perform usual maintanece to that plant. Ignorance of your deed and the law is not an excuse to assault a utility worker. Like us or not we keep everyone in power, communication, heat, water, etc.

An individual found this out the hard way today. She is now in very serious trouble. She has a pretty little spread. Big garden, dogs (pit bulls she turned loose on us. When that didn't work she went for the heat), horses, ducks, chickens and bunnies. When I got to the jobsite entrance i thought "Cool! Another homesteading prepper!"

I'm glad to be alive today. The beer seems a lot colder tonight.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Very important---also note that if your land has a section line that could be of importance too. Where I live --Section lines are also ROW's. AS state not knowing and acting stupid can bite you.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Yep all those things are across the road here . I treat everyone nice until they prove to need another type of treatment here we will even bring you a cold drink and snacks out .


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## Raymond James (Apr 15, 2013)

Glad you are ok. Unless there is a locked gate any person is allowed to drive/walk up to the door and knock to speak to the people in the house. Don't want people at the door then put in a gate with a lock. Once someone is on the porch you do not have to talk to them but you cannot threaten them with a gun just for knocking on your door. 

Utility workers ( I have rural water telephone and electricity going along the state hwy ) usually stop at the house to tell us what they need to do /are doing and to ask us to move livestock if we can. I have had them come borrow some cattle panels when they were working nearby to keep stock in until they were done and could repair the fence where they had to lay a new pipe thru it. Other times they have borrowed tools but that is rare and mostly due to the fact that I know many of the workers by name. They know I do not mind and am always willing to help. My only rule on tools is you break it you buy a new one for me.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Easements usually require workers to access their ROW's and Easements along that easement... unless you live on a county road, they need to have papered access onto your private road.

Ever since the electric coop installed automatic meters, I've had no unannounced visits from utility workers...

Have several dissuaders (that dissuade unannounced visitors)... one is a road falling apart, with several logs lying across the road... and some very large dogs... and some goats that love to jump on the hoods of vehicles... then there's the crazy guy that lives here.... ooopssss....


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## backwoods (Sep 12, 2004)

We have a locked gate across our driveway, our lock "interlocks" with the electric company's lock, so they can get in as needed, but no one else without a key. We love our electric company guys, one is a neighbor! The only time there was a little issue, they sent a hispanic male out on a 4 wheeler up the power line right of way that goes through our woods, just to "check it out" and the guy had nothing on him that identified him from a distance as an electric company worker. He was cruising up behind ds & dil's house and she had the AK out...since she had no idea who he was or why he was cruising up through the woods behind her house, she called us. Dh went out and talked to the guy, scared him at first since he came out of the woods behind him, hee hee. I called & told the company they'd better put a big orange vest or something on that dude, or he's liable to get shot in these parts. Before anyone gets upset about it, NO, we don't hate hispanics, it's just there aren't any who live in this neighborhood, and around here it's not unusual for a 4 wheeler to come into your place, but you know who they are right off.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I can say, if you have the right to be on a property easement, you should always talk to the land owner first too... But then again, I'd never stand between a utility worker and his job.. I like my power or other services.. 

This past weekend I did have a little 4 wheel buggy pull into my drive, then start heading down towards my out buildings.. I saw two guys in the buggy.. 

I grabbed my gun and went running for the door and started yelling at them... They finally stopped. Two young guys get out with a scared look on their face... 

Turns out they just started working for the guy that owns the oil well on my property. They were going up to trim around the well... 

We talked a bit and they were good kids, but I did let them know they will want to stop and let me know when they are coming onto my property, even though there is an easement for the well... I do a lot of shooting, and I shoot towards that direction, although into a bank way below the well... Still.. you should always let a land owner know you are there for your easement..


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Easements acquired legally and utility workers who behave themselves are not a concern around here.

First off, they generally come in the day when I'm less likely to be alarmed by their presence. They also generally stay down by the road where the easement is.

The only time it's been a concern was when a worker for the electric company drove down our driveway and got out of his truck and started peeking in the outbuildings. He said he was "looking for the meter". Yeah, jerk. There's no power lines even leading to this property. So he DID deserve to be shown the shotgun and the angry-faced owner. 

Plenty of methheads and thieves work for the utility companies, I am convinced. And I think some of them use their "right of way" to scout out potential locations for their future criminal activity.

Doesn't hurt to let all of the utility workers who come by here know that we're armed. I can walk out there with a shotgun slung casually over my shoulder and in friendly fashion discuss the weather with them. Even if there is a right-of-way on my property, anyone stopping down there and getting out of their vehicle should expect to be questioned by the landowner, though it would be unreasonable of me to do it in a hostile fashion with a gun pointed at them.

I can be pretty friendly, even surrounded by my dogs and carrying a rifle.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I heard today, about a Woman that fired a warning shot in the air ,to keep away her "bad" ex ,from herself and 3 children-she is serving a 20 year sentence for fireing a warning shot that hurt noone.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

triple divide said:


> Read your deeds people. Any utility buried on, near or across your property is on a dedicated utility easement.


Maybe in your State.....but not here. I signed an agreement with the power company to allow access when I originally requested power service up here ( there were no lines ), but it was not attached to or referenced in my property deed, nor was it filed in as a misc deed. It apparently goes to a filing cabinet at the power company.

A buddy of mine has a larger, high voltage supply line running across his property ( he bought the property with the line already in place from many years back ), and no right of way was ever granted. He knows because the power company that owns the line started giving him a hard time about how close a barn was he built ( they don't even use the line, it's a backup for supply to a local town ), and he had the title search done, and nothing was ever recorded as to a ROW. When that was pointed out to them, they quit bothering him.

I have a locked gate. The power company has the code to the opener on file, and they do come to read my meter each month.....and on occasion, to update their line drawings, and such. Always drive a truck with the name of the local power company, always wearing uniform with the same. I don't have a problem with meter reading or maintenance.

Two times, that was NOT the case.

1. Guy is walking up my drive ( sets off one of my driveway alerts )....He was wearing the uniform, but walking. Replacing the pole tags ( metal numbers ) as they were redoing the map or something. They HAVE the gate code...no need for him to walk.....he just didn't take the time to GET the code.

2. Some guy in a pickup ( unmarked ) (no uniform) parked at my gate as I come from town. "I need in to look at your power lines" OK....who are you ? "I'm a subcontractor for the power company".....Any ID ? "No"....Then you ain't getting in. He left mad....but he had an attitude before it even started. I called the power company, turns out he probably was legit, but I told them "No ID, no entry".....and maybe an attitude adjustment was in order as well.


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

Glad you are ok.
Out here they are supposed to come to the door and let you know they are there.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

I would think as a utility worker I would want to go to the door first and announce my presence for my own sake.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Our meter readers never knock on the door, nor do I expect them to. But it says on our electric bill when they will be reading the meter next. For the sewer, they come on your property only if there is a problem and they always knock. Our laws (IIRC) state that if you have any utility service the company is allowed access to your property to service or access the lines, not just in the ROW. All the lines before the meter or house (depends on utility) belong to the utility and you get use of their property. 

Triple Divide, I'm glad you are ok.

ETA, don't wander around my place and then claim to be from the gas company. There's no gas lines out here.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Had a similar "funny" interaction with a non English speaking Hispanic ROW crew... left one morning, and there were four Hispanics parked at my cattle guard... it was obvious they were wanting to mow my ROW... wondered why they hadn't got started already (knew they'd be at my place that day since they'd mowed my neighbors yesterday)... when another Hispanic showed up who could speak English... he talked with the crew and they pointed at some leftover Halloween 'decorations'. They thought a Bruja lived down my road and wouldn't enter. Had to explain I wasn't a warlock that'd curse them, so they could get about their business...


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## Billie in MO (Jun 9, 2002)

We have been pretty lucky, I guess. We do know where our easements. The last 2 days my doorbell has been ringing every time I turn around! Tree guys working for the power company are coming thru to trim trees, cut out certain trees, etc. Power company is upgrading lines/taking some lines out and replacing poles so, actually, for the last several months I have workers coming/going.

Yesterday, the guy told me why they were there but was very nice and didn't say what they were going to do in a nasty way. He was more asking me if this was ok to do and explained what/where/why.

This morning Bill was outside early with the youngest grandbaby (it is their alone time!) and talked to the same guy. Short story is we get the wood from any trees they take out plus we get all the wood chips they run thru the chipper. That way they don't have to haul it miles and miles to get rid of it all. Bill showed them where they can put it all. Late this afternoon, another guy came and asked if it was ok to leave one of the big trucks near the top of of our driveway by the tobacco barn. Not a problem and he mentioned the wood chips, too, and about where to put them.

Now if comes to the local water dept and their top guy........then that's a different story. He's a jerk (but that's a whole 'nother story altogether!!) The guys that work for him are ok, tho.

triple divide, I'm glad you are ok.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

texican said:


> Had a similar "funny" interaction with a non English speaking Hispanic ROW crew... left one morning, and there were four Hispanics parked at my cattle guard... it was obvious they were wanting to mow my ROW... wondered why they hadn't got started already (knew they'd be at my place that day since they'd mowed my neighbors yesterday)... when another Hispanic showed up who could speak English... he talked with the crew and they pointed at some leftover Halloween 'decorations'. They thought a Bruja lived down my road and wouldn't enter. Had to explain I wasn't a warlock that'd curse them, so they could get about their business...


Oh I'd have totally been a warlock that day.


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

grandma12703 said:


> I would think as a utility worker I would want to go to the door first and announce my presence for my own sake.


I did knock. Stepped back away from the porch so as not to encroach on a homeowners space. Waited. Nothing. Waited some more, knocked again. I heard the dogs raising hell just the other side of the door. I've been doing this job for 17 years total, so I'm mindful of my surroundings and repectful of homeowners and their property. I knew those dogs on the other side were pits or staffordshire terriers or Corso's. I've trained a lot of dogs and I've gotten pretty good at picking up on a breed by the bark (but that's not relevant, really..) 

At the end of the road were* 4* _such-and-so-on _utility trucks parked with beacons flashing and 3 very worn out from 18 consecutive 12-16 hrs./day guys (one "guy" was my wife, who works for the same company) waiting outside the vehicles wearing bright green FR shirts, steel toed boots, and cradleing hardhats under their arms.

For the life of me, I'll never understand how this person justified her actions with violence. Rather than cut down and remove her fencing which prohibited any trucks from using the easement which ran diagonaly from the road through her pasture to the utility access points we all humped in our gear and crossed into her pasture (her house was part of her pasture for all the animals.. no kidding!) and got to work. my wife was doing her job on one side while I was hooking up and preparing to work the cables for the other two guys on the other end by the road...

Let me tell you. There is no more attention grabbing sound to my ears than the sound of a sliding glass door and eight set's of claws digging into linoleum for purchase and the dedicated _huf-huf-huf! _of a pitbull coming at you from behind. Except one. Because that's when all hell broke loose.

So whether you have a granted easement, deeded easement or whatever.. please, My wife was with me. She has beautiful long brown (well, mostly..heh) hair. We were no threat and did everything per company policy. So I can assure you there are no methheads on my crew (found that statement especially funny!) and we're as professional a looking bunch as you'd find anywhere.

I'll just never understand this whole mess.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

Sorry that happened. I wonder how long the woman has been isolated from humans and alone with her dogs in Alaska. (I only mention the state because I've always assumed you were really alone up there in a very rugged, unwelcoming place.) She may have issues that go far beyond someone invading her space and just doing their job. Seriously.


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

Working in the lower 48 right now. Where I lived in Alaska is very rugged. I miss it, but the work is here now in our occupational field. I miss Alaska. I'm buying another little piece for a cabin next spring up in Tok.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

As an assessor, I always knocked first. I introduced myself and quickly followed with "any upkeep you've done to your property is not assessable." My measuring device was an 8 foot pole, which seemed to get attention.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

Apparently, you're not alone. I did some checking on line, and found one in NJ where a man ordered 2 pits to attack utility workers, and a case in RI where a woman ordered her pit to attack a reporter.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

triple divide said:


> Working in the lower 48 right now. Where I lived in Alaska is very rugged. I miss it, but the work is here now in our occupational field. I miss Alaska. I'm buying another little piece for a cabin next spring up in Tok.


Change your location so I don't look like a total idiot!

Seriously, she may have issues; it can happen anywhere. I hope someone looks into it. I doubt it was personal if that makes you feel better.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Danaus29 said:


> Our meter readers never knock on the door, nor do I expect them to. But it says on our electric bill when they will be reading the meter next. For the sewer, they come on your property only if there is a problem and they always knock. Our laws (IIRC) state that if you have any utility service the company is a*llowed access to your property to service or access the lines, not just in the ROW. All the lines before the meter or house (depends on utility) belong to the utility and you get use of their property.
> *
> Triple Divide, I'm glad you are ok.
> 
> ETA, don't wander around my place and then claim to be from the gas company. There's no gas lines out here.


I figure since I had to buy and install the poles and pay $90 per hr to have the lines installed as well as being responsible for maintenance and repairs to said line makes that line mine. They can read their meter from outside the fence without a problem. The county has a right away along the rear edge of our property so we simply ran our fence inside that line. That way no one has a "right" to be in our fence. 3 mastiffs reinforce that idea.


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

Did you buy the transformer and strands too? If so, wow! Why did the power company not put your meter at the take-off? That scenario is unheard of these days. But good for you for having it that way. I've only run into one other similar case in Pa. like yours. You are fortunate indeed. Until they pull the fuze...


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

terri, that's why I said meter or house depending on the utility. The electric co does not own or maintain any lines on your side of the meter. That means in some areas you might own and have to maintain a few hundred feet of electric line and maybe poles. The phone co and cable co usually (but not always) own the lines up to the house. Depends on where their connector is and how far you run wires on your side.

triple divide, out where I grew up meters on homes are few and far between, except in the cities. Out on the farms the meters are on poles pretty far from the houses. Most people have better electric service in their barns than in their houses.


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

Danaus29 said:


> out where I grew up meters on homes are few and far between, except in the cities. Out on the farms the meters are on poles pretty far from the houses. Most people have better electric service in their barns than in their houses.


You nailed it right on the head. That's why I asked about a meter not being at the take-off. Anything after the meter or phone NID is customer owned and not the utilities concern.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

triple divide said:


> Did you buy the transformer and strands too? If so, wow! Why did the power company not put your meter at the take-off? That scenario is unheard of these days. But good for you for having it that way. I've only run into one other similar case in Pa. like yours. You are fortunate indeed. Until they pull the fuze...



The power lines run down the street. The meter is on the pole just off the street outside the fence. The poles and wires on this side of the fence we paid for. There is no transformer near our place. I don't know where that is at, I'd have to look. Thats the way all the properties are set up out here. No cable, phone, gas, septic or city water lines on our place.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

triple divide said:


> I did knock. Stepped back away from the porch so as not to encroach on a homeowners space. Waited. Nothing. Waited some more, knocked again. I heard the dogs raising hell just the other side of the door. I've been doing this job for 17 years total, so I'm mindful of my surroundings and repectful of homeowners and their property. I knew those dogs on the other side were pits or staffordshire terriers or Corso's. I've trained a lot of dogs and I've gotten pretty good at picking up on a breed by the bark (but that's not relevant, really..)
> 
> At the end of the road were* 4* _such-and-so-on _utility trucks parked with beacons flashing and 3 very worn out from 18 consecutive 12-16 hrs./day guys (one "guy" was my wife, who works for the same company) waiting outside the vehicles wearing bright green FR shirts, steel toed boots, and cradleing hardhats under their arms.
> 
> ...


I hope you didn't take my statement wrong. I wasn't saying you didn't do everything right. I was just stating that in todays world I would always try to knock because you don't have any idea what people might do. Believe me I understand. Although I was not one of the cities utility workers I did work as a city clerk/treas. and always worried about the maintenance guy out taking care of business. Also, my DH has worked as a supervisor/superintendent for 3 different state highway dept. and he deals with things like this a lot. I went with him one time when he was called out in the middle of the night during a high water emergency. When we arrived the land owner was holding several workers at gun point because they were on "his" property along side the highway. Well, DOT's have a right a way to work with and they were only trying to help deter the water. Anyway I never asked to ride along again.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

triple divide said:


> I'll just never understand this whole mess.


Some people are just strange. Not much more to understand.

And you should also understand that you and your crew do not represent all of the utility workers across all of America. It's a mixed bag.


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## backwoods (Sep 12, 2004)

I love our utility worker guys, I just think they are awesome! I have a 2700 ft ROW into my property through the woods, so that I can enjoy ice and air conditoning and lights. Who else would climb a wet pole after a downpour and wind/lightening/ice storm to get your power back on for ya? They could've used the bucket truck, but didn't want to "mess up" my pretty green field because the ground was so wet. Yep, I love those guys!!! And triple divide, so glad you all weren't hurt. Some folks are just CRAZY.


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

backwoods, thank you. And, you're welcome. From all of us methheads. LOL!

I might just go polish the spurs on me hooks o'er yer kind post!


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## tkrabec (Mar 12, 2003)

We have 2 power easements on our property. one on the east & one on the west.

when we put in the fence on the east, we set it back 10' or so so the trucks had a place to work & so we did not have to worry as much when a line falls.

The west side there is an existing fence line so we'll let the workers on the property (if they can't figure out the gate).


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I have a ROW and a Prepossed right away. It is funny because my ROW butts up to a REAL Public road as if it is part of the road way. So it my problem is I have added gravel to my "trail-driveway -ROW" and every year people bring trailers via four wheelers and remove the gravel to take to their home to uses. Excuses I have heard are ---It is public land (no) so I need gravel for my pot holes in my driveway and the government stuff I can take (steal) for my use. ---They understand that gravel cost-- note they have a gravel driveway in need of repair but they do not want to save and pay when they think they can steal it from taxpayers---when I prove it is not a road well they take off to find another well maintained gravel area. Most of the government gravel roads are in poor repair. NOW I understand people steal the gravel. 

I did have the local government take a bulldozer to a section of my land to deal with their land and I talked to them---the logical path for the dozer was thur my land--they should have ask as they had put up the markers and they there plain as day. We agreed that they would close up the path they made acessing their land. Quite sad to say they did not and will not so 22 trees of mine have been cut by a tresspasser caught and informed that it is my land. I did get the local government to put up signs stating that my area is closed to the public--which still confusing people that I am there and I am "using a closed area as if it were your own private park"===I swear I should post a plat to quell the issues. ---


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> I have a ROW and a Prepossed right away. It is funny because my ROW butts up to a REAL Public road as if it is part of the road way. So it my problem is I have added gravel to my "trail-driveway -ROW" and every year people bring trailers via four wheelers and remove the gravel to take to their home to uses. Excuses I have heard are ---It is public land (no) so I need gravel for my pot holes in my driveway and the government stuff I can take (steal) for my use. ---They understand that gravel cost-- note they have a gravel driveway in need of repair but they do not want to save and pay when they think they can steal it from taxpayers---when I prove it is not a road well they take off to find another well maintained gravel area. Most of the government gravel roads are in poor repair. NOW I understand people steal the gravel.
> 
> I did have the local government take a bulldozer to a section of my land to deal with their land and I talked to them---the logical path for the dozer was thur my land--they should have ask as they had put up the markers and they there plain as day. We agreed that they would close up the path they made acessing their land. Quite sad to say they did not and will not so 22 trees of mine have been cut by a tresspasser caught and informed that it is my land. I did get the local government to put up signs stating that my area is closed to the public--which still confusing people that I am there and I am "using a closed area as if it were your own private park"===I swear I should post a plat to quell the issues. ---



Why not fence it off?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

A public right of way is many things---a deed or doc's ref and included in a title report will spell out the type of ROW. In my case the ROW is an HISTORIC path of travel. I am NOT to impead the travel of others on it. I still own it I still pay taxes and it was one hundred percent my choice to buy it. I get the pleasure and the headaches. Land locking neighbors is not allowed in my state. It is not only the neighbor but those that visit or do busiiness with my neighbor. I can not limit who travels on it as the right to travel is covered in the constution and it includes roads and ROW such as mine 

Then even if that was not the case I live in the middle of large wild life bordering one of the largest still pristine habitate for the brown bears and moose, lynx ---no wolves but yokes. Those animal use my land to migrate thur and avoid the one main road. I am not the Peta, greenie but I respect nature --the good and the bad. Here people are killed in cars when these large animal are traveling on the road. Bears DO walk right down the road in the early hours and late hours. 

As to the area the local govenment created with thier dozer ---

One. They gave me their word they would handle it --
two. fencing will stop the wild live.
three the local government agent agree to dozer it up which would block the people but not 
impede wild life. I can not dozer it as it cost too much
I just post signs and have them torn down and I am working with my reps in the state to change a state law on posting from signage ever 25 feet to spray painting the trees purple ---I learned that others states do that here (thank's HT") 
But I hold thoses in the government accountable and in a public meeting can stand up and hope fully expose the poor charactor of some current elective people to aid in getting them out of power.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

It's a bit of a side trip, but there's something I wanna know...

Say there's a couple o' pit bulls thundering towards you without their playful puppy dog looks on their faces. What do you do? You ARE where your are supposed to be but the dogs may not know that.

As a utility worker, do you, or are you allowed to even have anything for personal protection? I would doubt you'd pull out a 9mm and start poppin caps. Do you have something like bear spray? Or are there other ways you have developed to try to protect yourself from the owner that decides you "deserve" to have their dogs attack?

I've had a few encounters with dogs of this kind and I was not amused.


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

For reasons that are obvious, I cannot comment. Not at this time. Not even hypothetically. Maybe when this all blows over I'll revisit this question. I just cannot right now.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

triple divide said:


> Any utility buried on, near or across your property is on a dedicated utility easement. Utility company employees have unfettered access along the easement to perform usual maintanece to that plant. Ignorance of your deed and the law is not an excuse to assault a utility worker. Like us or not we keep everyone in power, communication, heat, water, etc.


What about when utilities are buried without an easement? I never signed an easement for the phone company to cross my property. One day they just showed up, plowed a line across my property to my neighbor behind me. I never signed an easement for the electric company either. I ordered a light and they brought it out and installed it. No paperwork at all. Did they get some kind of automatic easement? Were they working off an old easement from a previous owner? My deed has zero easements recorded on it. 

That said, I would probably not deny them access to make needed repairs, but if they just showed up to add stuff I don't want, I would challenge their right to use my land without my permission.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Spinner said:


> What about when utilities are buried without an easement? I never signed an easement for the phone company to cross my property. One day they just showed up, plowed a line across my property to my neighbor behind me. I never signed an easement for the electric company either. I ordered a light and they brought it out and installed it. No paperwork at all. Did they get some kind of automatic easement? Were they working off an old easement from a previous owner? My deed has zero easements recorded on it.
> 
> That said, I would probably not deny them access to make needed repairs, but if they just showed up to add stuff I don't want, I would challenge their right to use my land without my permission.


It sounds like they owe you a whole lot of money, either for use of your land or for damages .


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Spinner--ok--did you buy the land from the gov. In other words are you the first owner of the land that is a private cit. THis matter very much in your sid. Also did you pull a title rep and get title ins. See most likely on a rec'd plat or somewhere in the geo file is a rec'd doc. that gave them the right but they had no need to make use of it so till they did it was idle.

also look in to your work request and doc's there might be a ref to it. 

Lot's of time when land is diviided for development easemtent agreement are done and rec'd on plats that are referenced in the titla report. Copies of all doc's used to support the report are givinen wiht the report. It can be a thick pack and the info is somewhere in it.

The Ulities store the info in their files by geo and the easment could be old but valid. Please look at yur doc's or call your title office (if you used one) and ask the to pull a copy of all easement on your prop.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

kasilofhome said:


> Spinner--ok--did you buy the land from the gov. In other words are you the first owner of the land that is a private cit. THis matter very much in your sid. Also did you pull a title rep and get title ins. See most likely on a rec'd plat or somewhere in the geo file is a rec'd doc. that gave them the right but they had no need to make use of it so till they did it was idle.
> 
> also look in to your work request and doc's there might be a ref to it.
> 
> ...


All of the easements on my property are clearly marked on the title and map. There's an access easement on the eastern side, but there's no road there and it would have to cross a deep ditch to get to the property behind it, so it's null and void effectively.

Then down the road frontage there's a utility easement for a water pipe. They don't do anything but come along once a year and mark it with a bunch of blue flags (which a couple of months later I appropriate for use in the garden as seed markers).


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

Ernie said:


> All of the easements on my property are clearly marked on the title and map. There's an access easement on the eastern side, but there's no road there and it would have to cross a deep ditch to get to the property behind it, so it's null and void effectively.


Yea, it's null and void. That's why the R/W was set up. 

Trust me, if the utility wants to cross your cavernous ditch on an existing easement..it'll be done. The tracked machines I use aren't too skeered of ditches. 

I'm not a big lover of attorneys, but in my case, the utilities R/W attorney was worth his salt.

My bottom line here is *YOU* don't get to decide access along the easement. But! We always let folks know so as not to be overbearing jerks about it. We try and get in and out quickly, because we know we can get in the way. We just want to get in get the job done and leave. Our machinery is big. It makes ruts we try to avoid making and we always come back to fix as best we can. 

You don't get to get power/phone/cable/gas/water/sewer and then cry or hurt someone because the spans/lines just happen to need attention on the easement which you happen to be the property owner of. 

Access was either deeded or granted by accepting service, or accepting payment for encroachment, which would be deeded and transferred to any future owner. 

You have let it known you have a healthy distaste for utility workers. Fine. I'm sure you have your reasons. Sounds like you are plenty aware of the easements on and near your property. Great. Mission accomplished for me.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Did you show this much hostility and attitude when the homeowner pulled the gun on you? Because I'm beginning to understand.

The easement with the ditch is an access easement, not a utility easement. It belongs to the neighbor behind me and is so he can access his land. He cannot so much as even put a road there and since he now has access from other adjoining property he owns, it's null and void. I checked this out with an attorney before I bought the property.

The utility easement is just there along the road. It extends about 6' onto my property. The guy who runs the crews for that utility company has lunch with me every couple of weeks down at the cafÃ©. We're buddies. 

I DIDN'T have any distaste for utility workers before this thread, but I'm developing one now.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Easements are not always spelled out in deeds. Often times all you get is something such as : and subject to all encumbrances, liens, and encroachments of public record.

the plat is "of public record"


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

Ernie said:


> I DIDN'T have any distaste for utility workers before this thread, but I'm developing one now.


Well, heck. 

Ernie, look, maybe I misread your first post blanketing an entire industry. If so, please accept my apologies. 

I leave it at that.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

kasilofhome said:


> Spinner--ok--did you buy the land from the gov. ...Also did you pull a title rep and get title ins.
> 
> also look in to your work request and doc's there might be a ref to it.
> 
> ...


Bought from a private party who had owned the property since before it had electric installed. Got the title ins., abstract, etc. I've read the entire abstract and there is no mention of any past easement. 

Never had a work order for installation of lights, phone, etc. Just called a friend who works for the power company (talked to him on his home phone after hours) and ask if I can get a light and he took care of it. A week later, the pole & light was installed. 

The phone company didn't need to put in a line, it was already here. When they upgraded, they probably assumed they had an easement on record, but they don't (at least there is no record of one in the abstract or at the court house.) 

Phone lines were already here for MY house when I bought. The new line across my pasture was installed just a few years ago. I have to be careful when putting in new fence posts cause they plowed their line right along the line where I put up a fence for a pen. 

Rural water company is in the area laying pipe for the future. They knocked on the door asking where I want my meter located. I told the kid (young man in late teens or early 20's) to put it at the edge of the second driveway, and the next day, it was there. No paperwork for them either. They probably assumed there was a ROW they could use, but obviously they didn't do their research. They installed in on my property with only a verbal agreement that gave them no rights to reenter the property for any reason unless installation of their meter hole gives implied consent, (which could end up a legal mess.) 

This land was divided once, but my section is the original homestead. The original owners kept this part and sold off sections of raw land. I got the original deed with all the mineral rights, water rights, etc. intact. 




Ernie said:


> It sounds like they owe you a whole lot of money, either for use of your land or for damages .


money would be nice, but I don't want to make enemies of the people I may need help from in the future. As a general rule, we all get along well in this area and still do many things on a handshake instead of a contract. The buried phone line isn't doing any damage that I can see, I just have to be careful when I put in new fence posts.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Did you look at the plats? and each plat referenced. See if there is ANY recorded info on a plat=asbuilt or orginal survey it is covered in the CYA tag line and subject to all encumbrances, liens, and encroachments of public record.

the plat is "of public record" 

On my place I know there there are were more than 6 maps that were sized down to legal doc size. Print is impossidable to read with out useing the larger plat. All the verbage is / should be transfered to a written note that is picked up by the examiner--the were kept by plat number in the plat doc file.==from there they should be noted in the report. Now, all this is done by humans and error are made--I know that very well and if you have an owners policy not just a lenders policy then if a err was made you would be covered for the whole time you have own it. It seems to cost alot up front and it is NOT required --the lenders is and many people think that a lenders covers them and the do not get an owners but get the owners---proctect yourself.==

Spinner did you get an owners policy---if so let them handle it and see what is up. If you got the owners this question you need answered if what you paid for.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

triple divide said:


> Well, heck.
> 
> Ernie, look, maybe I misread your first post blanketing an entire industry. If so, please accept my apologies.
> 
> I leave it at that.


Fair enough. My apologies as well. The internet is an imperfect medium for two men to discuss matters. Maybe we'd do better over a cup of coffee and a piece of pie sometime.

There are scumbags in every industry. It's unavoidable. In some industries you get methheads and thieves, and in others you get prescription painkiller addicts and perverts. It's the nature of this world we live in.

When we lived in Illinois, the utility workers were pretty decent fellows, and most of them down here in Texas are too, if you meet them. But there are some of the crews, particularly the oilfield ones, that look pretty rough. Skinny, sore-infested guys with prison tattoos who give you the stink-eye. 

I filed a complaint on an electric guy who came poking around here one day. We're not hooked up to the grid. There isn't a utility pole within a quarter mile of our property lines. He drove up in the driveway and started looking all around in the outbuildings. When confronted he said he was "looking for the meter". We're not his customer, we're not on his list, there ain't no business for him to be here and there certainly doesn't need for him to be opening doors on storage sheds and an RV to see what's in there.

It was made clear to him that it would be dangerous for him to return either in the day or at night and when I called his company to complain, they said he was a contractor who had only been with them for 2 weeks but there had been several complaints so he was going to be let go. I had no complaints about their response to the matter. He didn't particularly look like a shady character, so I can't even say they ought to have been more diligent in their hiring. 

It pays to be a little careful. We homeowners need to realize that there are good folks out there just doing their job, but also that there are potentially some bad apples. Maybe then we (both homeowners and the good utility crews) can be safe.


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## Tinga (Jul 24, 2011)

We have a HUGE gas line easement running through out property. Pretty much cutting it into 2 triangles. We also have 2 large double gates and a single gate near the garage ( whole back yard is fenced). 

Gas company comes out twice a year to check for leaks etc. and I let them in. Usually they call or leave a card if I'm gone to make an apt to come back. That being said....ALL our gates are locked. For just as much THEIR safety as ours. 

We have special needs kiddos... I gotta know with 100% certainty all the time that those gates are CLOSED. And 2.....mastiffs. Even if they do have ROW I want to know when to keep my dogs in. They are friendly enough, but not so much I'd risk as ---- lawsuit about it. 

We were fully aware of the easement and what it meant for us. All of our encounters thus far have been congenial, with the exception of one older gent who wasn't an ass or anything. Just liked to throw about how we needed to call him for any ---- hole we dug along the easement. Wasn't nasty about it, I think he was just an old bored guy who liked the little bit of authority he had. I told him absolutely and would he like some water or coffee.


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

Ernie said:


> I filed a complaint on an electric guy who came poking around here one day. *We're not hooked up to the grid*. There isn't a utility pole within a quarter mile of our property lines. He drove up in the driveway and started looking all around in the outbuildings. When confronted he said he was *"looking for the meter".* We're not his customer, we're not on his list, there ain't no business for him to be here and there certainly doesn't need for him to be opening doors on storage sheds and an RV to see what's in there.


Ahh.., I'm seeing the picture clearer now. Yea, that is pretty sketchy. Even working for a contract firm the GPS and customer ID's are scary accurate. He definitely had no business on your ground and, given the circumstances, your response was more than justified. 

Sounds like a very cool set-up you got Ernie. I wish you well.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Thanks. It's a pretty messy setup but it works. Keeps the laptop charged, the drinks cold, and the cellphone going but that's about it. 

We can talk about the FedEx guys if you want. They're plum crazy. Even when the dogs are loose, they get out of their truck and rush to put boxes on our porch, even with me waving at them from the window and yelling to them to stay in their truck. Those dogs bite! One of these days the FedEx guy is going to get his leg mauled and I can't seem to convince him to wait in his truck until I get there.

He says, "I'm not afraid of dogs", and I keep thinking "you ought to be".


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## machinist (Aug 3, 2010)

Our utility workers are a very nice bunch to deal with, but I did have a problem with an overzealous guy from the next county over once. We were having a detached garage built and the contractor was setting concrete forms with his boom truck. This utility guy was driving past and stopped to tell him he was too close to the power lines and had to stop work until he got the lines insulated with those yellow rubber tubes. 

Contractor said he'd been doing this for 30+ years and he wasn't dead yet, so bug off. THEN, utility guy says we can't build the garage that close to the pole and have to MOVE THE BUILDING because high voltage lines have to be 30 feet (?) from any residence. I got called at work and talked to the utility guy. 

His big worry was, the transformer was on the pole next to the new building, so we had something like 4000 volts (?) coming into that transformer. He says that is illegal and I can't have the transformer there. Have to move either the transformer or the building and I was to pay for that. The transformer was also within 15 feet of the house. I simply asked him, if it is illegal, how the heck did that transformer get there to start with? It all looked bad for me then, until he said he didn't want any talk about easements, that I had better just stop construction and get this all ironed out, blah, blah. He was livid. Contractor was a well informed crusty old guy who didn't back up worth a crap, and HE had words with the utility guy. 

Utility guy calls a crew out to insulate the wires and construction proceeded that day. I got home from work and all was going nicely. I couldn't understand how this got resolved all by itself? I was suspicious and got out our deed and found NO EASEMENTS of any kind on it. Apparently the utility guy dug into records, too, and also learned this. 

I got another call from the utility guy being very apologetic. It turned out that the power company did NOT have an easement on our property, and had installed the transformer long before the house was built, and with a plot survey in hand, they had placed the transformer wrong 30 years ago. Bottom line was, we got a NEW power pole out on the state highway ROW, a NEW transformer, NEW wires into the old pole and a NEW meter base all for nothing because the problem was THEIRS. Not legal to run the high voltage across residential property. They must have paid some overtime, because it was all fixed up to code within 24 hours. 

At least the guy got to be polite once he figured out his position in the deal. I never gave him a bad time in any of this, but it was gratifying to see him eat a full plate of crow!

Our new retirement property will have NO public utilities on it. I asked and the power company said it would cost us $10K to put in a transformer and a couple poles. For that money I can have a REALLY NICE solar system and only pay for maintaining it. I am tired of dealing with such highway robbery. The utility owners act like they are God. Really bad attitude at the home office. Thank goodness the linemen and such are really nice folks. We are going with a cistern and water collection, septic tank and lateral field (already approved and installed), and solar electric. NO BILLS from now on, and no dealing with pompous windbags at the utility office and their outrageous prices. 

No easements, either. EVER. And yes, there is a locked gate, no trespassing signs, and there are some big dogs inside the fence with a sign that says "Please don't let our dogs out".


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