# Using a realtor who is also selling house



## TxHorseMom (Feb 21, 2011)

We have been looking at some houses. I called a realtor to show me a house and she also showed us another house she thought we might like that her company had listed. (The realtor who was listing the original house we wanted to see wouldn't show it until we were pre-approved by a mortgage company) Anyway, she was right. We did like it. My question is this. Where exactly does her loyalty lie? Usually when you are selling a house, your realtor is going to try to get the best possible price (ie highest) that they can get. But, when you are buying a house, your realtor tries to get you the best possible price (ie lowest) that they can get. Is it a conflict of interest if it is the same realtor/realty company?


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

There is no conflict if you are up front, and represent both parties.

How? You write up the Offer in any amount you Buyer wants, without disclosing anything you may know about the Seller (especially if that gives the Buyer an advantage). That Offer is then presented to the Seller, without disclosure of anything known about the Buyer, which may influence the Seller in any way.

Clearly, you are in a better position being represented by your own Buyer's Agent. Loyalty is not split...

Yes, I have been a Dual Agent a number of times, but only due to both Clients being comfortable with it. No, never any issues, either.

No, there is no conflict of interest if the Agent fulfills his/her fiduciary responsibility to both Clients.

When I was a Loan Officer, I was also an Agent, so I provided financing for my Buyers. That is legally permitted here. It simplified it for me, my Clients preferred me doing their loans, and my closing rate was very high. Plenty of folks consider that a conflict. I also did refi's. My rates? They couldn't be beat due to me making more on the RE side, that I insured they got the best rates using me. I no longer am a Loan Officer.


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

In most of my dealings with a realtor, they have acted more as a go-between than most anything else. A realtor knows just about what a piece of property will sell for (+/- a few (or more) grand). A "buyers" rep trys to get the price on the low end of that price range where as a "sellers" rep trys to get a price on the higher end of that same price range. 
So you as a buyer make an offer, the realtor (yours or theirs) takes that offer to the seller (hence the "go-between"). From there the seller can laugh, counter-offer, or accept the buyers offer. The realtor dependent on who they are repesenting can offer advice to their client as to if'n the offer may be acceptable or not.
Usually from what I have seen if 2 realtors are involved they hagle over coffee, or the phone, with both knowing about what each client will or will not accept. From there hopefully a bargain is reached where both buyer and seller are satisfied.
If'n the realtor is representing both buyer and seller hopefully the final price will fall right in the middle of the expected price range.

I think it's about the same info that lorichristie stated but maybe explained somewhat differently????


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## TxHorseMom (Feb 21, 2011)

ok, thanks. I guess I can see what you mean. We've always had a different realtor than the one representing the seller in the past. To be honest, I am still more comfortable doing it that way. But, this woman has totally been appropriate, and has not done anything wrong. We will have to think on it some more. We haven't made any offers yet, and plan on trying to get pre-approved before any offers are made.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

I have almost always used the same realtor that listed the property for two reasons: that person knows the property better than one who did not list it, and he/she knows what kind of offer is appropriate for the seller. 

I look at it as the fact a realtor wants to make as much commission as possible, so they really represent themselves. Getting two realtors involves splits their commission in half, so both will want to sell the property for as much as possible to get a decent commission.


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## Tinker (Apr 5, 2004)

When we have purchased homes, the realtor is usually anxious to sell their own listings, or those with their agency, so they tend to try to steer you in that direction first. If that doesn't work for you, then they will show you other properties on the market.

We have worked with dual agents, and buyers agents. With a dual agent, I would be careful and not let them know what your "top price" is, as they are anxious to get as much as they can for the proerty. With a buyers agent, I would feel comfortable saying "I'll go up to say $200,000.00, but lets start at $175,000. I would not let a dual agent know what my max is.

Also, I think a buyers agent might be a bit more honest about if the price is high, or if there are any problems, where as a listing agent would be reluctant to speak bad about their listing.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> I look at it as the fact a realtor wants to make as much commission as possible, so they really represent themselves. Getting two realtors involves splits their commission in half, so both will want to sell the property for as much as possible to get a decent commission.


I'm reminded of a quote I heard in another context (applying to investment brokers) -- "Who is your friend, then? _You don't have one._"

But at the end of the day, anything is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. 

You have all the tools at your disposal to compare the price of a home in which you're interested in to other properties in the area that are for sale or have sold recently. 

If you choose not to avail yourself of the information, or take somebody else's word for it, well, that's certainly your prerogative. 

I would not let a Realtor or anyone else sway me in my decision; I'd make an offer in line with what I'd want to pay for the property. Realtors are required by law to present all offers. Then it's up to the owners to accept, decline or counteroffer ... let the games begin!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

TxHorseMom said:


> We have been looking at some houses. I called a realtor to show me a house and she also showed us another house she thought we might like that her company had listed. (The realtor who was listing the original house we wanted to see wouldn't show it until we were pre-approved by a mortgage company) Anyway, she was right. We did like it. My question is this. Where exactly does her loyalty lie? *Usually when you are selling a house, your realtor is going to try to get the best possible price (ie highest) that they can get. But, when you are buying a house, your realtor tries to get you the best possible price (ie lowest) that they can get.* Is it a conflict of interest if it is the same realtor/realty company?


Ahhhh.... loyalty and contractual fiduciary duty in the real estate game? Great question... tough answer! Heres how its "suppose" to work. A seller lists a home with a real estate broker, who then has a fiduciary duty to look out for his sellers best interests in getting the property sold. Buyers have recently... the past 20 to 30 years or so... have been under the belief that if they get their own broker... the broker will then look out for the buyers best interests... which looks good on paper but the legalities can get quite interesting. (agents all work under a broker... so whatever "side" they take, has to jive with the brokers position) 

Heres the reality.... The broker is not in business to provide any service to anyone... he is in business to make money.... therefore his primary loyalty is just exactly like anyone else... himself. An agents first loyalty goes the same way... themselves... then the broker... then whoever they have contracts with, buyer or seller. 

Let me ask you this question... if you enlist an agent to find your property for you, and they accomplish this task to your satisfaction... and you end up buying the property... who pays your agent and how much? Do you really expect your agent to cut their own throat by negotiating the sales price down? Remember, they get paid on a commission basis... a few dollars out of every hundred the seller collects at the closing table goes into their pockets. An agent collects twice as much if they sell their own listing than they do if its someone elses listing, and of course their broker likes to see in house listings sold whenever possible for the same reason... he doesnt have to split the commission with another store.

As to the question of best price... for the seller its the highest... for the buy its the lowest... for an agent or broker the best price is the price that both buyer and seller agree to... cause with out that agreement there is no sale... and no commission! 

If it were me... I would simply shop around with the various real estate companies for sale by owners, find the property I want and do my own negotiating through the listing agent if its a listed property, or directly with the owner if its a fsbo.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Ahhhh.... loyalty and contractual fiduciary duty in the real estate game? Great question... tough answer! Heres how its "suppose" to work. A seller lists a home with a real estate broker, who then has a fiduciary duty to look out for his sellers best interests in getting the property sold. Buyers have recently... the past 20 to 30 years or so... have been under the belief that if they get their own broker... the broker will then look out for the buyers best interests... which looks good on paper but the legalities can get quite interesting. (agents all work under a broker... so whatever "side" they take, has to jive with the brokers position)
> 
> Heres the reality.... The broker is not in business to provide any service to anyone... he is in business to make money.... therefore his primary loyalty is just exactly like anyone else... himself. An agents first loyalty goes the same way... themselves... then the broker... then whoever they have contracts with, buyer or seller.
> 
> ...


Your last paragraph is bad advice unless the Buyer is very familiar with real estate law, and excells in negotiation. Also, the Buyer better be able to fully understand the Purchase and Sale Agreement, including all Addendum, and know every contingency... The Seller pays a set % to the Listing Broker. That means the Listing Broker will be entitled to 100% of the commission (not referring to any commission split between Broker and Agent who listed it). 

The Listing Agent's job is to get the property sold for as much as possible and within the Sellers timeline, if both are possible. This Listing Agent has fiduciary responsibilities to the Seller first. Rare Agents can objectively be Dual Agents. I can and have happy Clients to prove it.

That said? I will, due to my experience in many real estate transactions in the years I've been licensed as an Agent and the last two as Managing Broker, recommend folks always seek their own Realtor when buying a listed home.

Willow Girl, you are right. Legally, as a Buyers Agent, I have to submit any offer my Clients want me to. THEY chose the offer amount, not me. If they ask for input, I give it.

For illustrative purposes, here is a true story:

While I was at the office, a nice couple walked in and asked for an Agent. I was on duty, so I met with them. During that consultation, I quickly discerned this would be a bit challenging. Each of them had their own set of criteria...

First, I instructed them to review all the listings I would send them by email (they were awaiting their VA Approval). When the Approval came back, and I confirmed it with their Loan Officer, I would schedule to show them the Listings they chose. While showing them properties the first day, I listened closely to each of their comments, which would help me more effectively screen the listings, disqualifying as needed. Since I was literally reviewing hundreds of listings online, evaluating, then sending only those meeting joint criteria, I would then be showing them the best listings.

Now here, I will break in a comment about price. My Clients were approved for $40,000 more than most of the homes I showed them. Early on, I keyed in they were jointly comfortable in the lower range. The only higher priced listings I sent, were distressed, or had been on the market for an extended period of time. There is more negotiating room...

I took these Clients to see properties on four occasions. After the 3rd showing, I heard the sweet young gal commenting about her grandma's house, and her husband said he liked basements... While doing my online search, I found a home with a basement, built in 1945, beautifully cared for, with a water view. The floorplan was perfect for them, too. On the main floor, there is one bedroom, and two bedrooms upstairs. Even though the gal wanted two bathrooms, I encouraged them to see it. 

When they got out of their car, she said she would go in because I wanted her to, but wasn't very impressed (there were inexpensive plastic handrails that struck her as shabby, and the exterior was painted in an apparent sloppy manner). The exterior is stucco/cement, and was done right back in 1945.

They walk in, and their faces lit up. The guy was grinning the whole time and she did, most of the time. The interior was beautiful, period architecture, and fully furnished. Often, some furniture is left for staging... Still paying close attention to their reactions and comments, I asked them if they liked the furniture (period and in perfect condition). At the end of the showing, the gal asked her DH if he wanted it, with a hopeful expression. Without hesitation, he told me to write the offer for close to $5000 less than asking price. I agreed and asked if they would like me to include a request for the Sellers to leave EVERYTHING in the home and garage. They happily agreed, but were surprised I recommended it (if you saw the guys smile when he ran his hand over the mahogany dresser...). After we left, I got a call, and they decided to off even $5000 less, almost $10000 under asking. Then asked for my opinion. I told them I could write it up at the lower amount, but their request for all the furnishings may then be seen as simply asking for too much (the sellers were already replacing all the windows, almost). So, I wrote up the Offer exactly as requested, but also wrote a nice email to the Listing Broker, telling her I was representing a nice Military couple who were hoping their Offer would be presented respectfully, disclosing to the Sellers they felt the furnishings may not be wanted. The original Owner had died almost a year before, so the man's son and his DW inherited it. I had checked that out before I wrote the Offer.

We got a Counter, asking for a few thousand more, a few possessions excluded, and they agreed to gift all the furnishings and all other personal property to my Buyers.

So, hey, I am not sorry to burst some of your bubbles.

When my Clients get a home for $43,000 less than their Approval, all the furnishings/personal belongings FREE, I consider that WIN for them and myself! My priority was met in helping them find and negotiate the LOWEST price, getting the best deal. It is NOT trying to earn a higher commission!

Those of you who aren't actively working in real estate aren't forming proper conclusions from the inside. At best, there is a lot of assuming going on in some of these posts, including some bad advice, in addition to erroneous information.

BTW- I answer to a Designated Broker, but am NEVER instructed to make money the bottom line. The Client is and that is why our company has such a great reputation. Professional service first, and financial gain is earned afterward.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

In 1997, I sold a house that not only had the Realtor as a dual agent (when this happens, they charge a 6% commission instead of 7%) but we also had the same lawyer, something nobody had ever seen before. I had used him when I bought the house a few years earlier, and she had used him for her divorce which had just been finalized the previous week.

Part of the divorce settlement was a sum of money which was to be used as the down payment on a house, and she had fired her first Realtor because that one kept showing her houses that were way beyond her price range, and bigger than anything she would have wanted even if she could have afforded it. She also fired her first lawyer, a very highly recommended woman, because this one kept saying things like, "If you tell the judge that your husband beat you up, you can get more child support." :umno: IDK why she got divorce, but this was not a factor. She picked the second lawyer, a man, out of the phone book, and she felt that he got her a very fair settlement, and it made that difficult time a lot easier. :thumb:


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

If you get bad service, fire your Realtor and get a good one!

I received a call today from a guy that was a first for me. He asked to be shown one of my listings and other homes in the area. He explained that his car was in the shop, so I would need to drive 45 minutes to get him and his DW, show them homes for hours in different areas, burn through a tank of fuel, also driving him back. 1.5 hours x two trips = 3 hours + however many hours showing them properties. The clincher to this was he told me flat out that this would be a courtesy, that he wasn't pre-approved for a loan, and really a looky-loo. After hearing him out, I told him I pull listings and encourage those in his stage to drive to different areas to pin down where they wish to live, provide me with criteria, and he could drive the neighborhoods. When he was ready to seriously look, and was pre-approved, I'd be happy to work hard to find him a home. I explained my reasoning. If we came across an incredible deal, could lose out only due to him not being pre-approved, since another Buyer could swoop right in and snag it. That is what has been happening to the best deals! During our conversation, he told me I was hard to find an honest Agent, and would get back in touch with me. It could be this guy was testing me, but who knows?!


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## TxHorseMom (Feb 21, 2011)

Lori would you be my agent?  It might be a bit expensive for you to come to tx for the showings though. lol

But seriously, I appreciate all of the info.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

TxHorseMom said:


> Lori would you be my agent?  It might be a bit expensive for you to come to tx for the showings though. lol
> 
> But seriously, I appreciate all of the info.


Wish I could, haven't had the honor of assisting an HTer, yet. I have been able to assist Buyers and, yep, got them into homesteading type lifestyles...

You are most welcome!


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Lori, it sounds like you work hard for your clients. :thumbup:

I tried working with a buyer's agent once when I was looking for property. I gave her a very specific set of criteria and asked her to contact me if anything came on the market that matched my needs. Unfortunately, she insisted on taking me to look at a number of houses that did not match my specs. About the only good thing I can say about the experience is that at least we were burning her gasoline and not mine! 

Good of you to handle the negotiations over the furnishings, too. When I bought my last house, I found out later that the seller had wanted to offer to sell me most of the furniture. The Realtor was supposed to have informed me and provided a price list, but he didn't bother. I learned about it later because the seller moved into another house she owned, which was right up the road. I was disappointed, as I would have taken the living room set, and probably some other things, off her hands.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

willow_girl said:


> Lori, it sounds like you work hard for your clients. :thumbup:
> 
> I tried working with a buyer's agent once when I was looking for property. I gave her a very specific set of criteria and asked her to contact me if anything came on the market that matched my needs. Unfortunately, she insisted on taking me to look at a number of houses that did not match my specs. About the only good thing I can say about the experience is that at least we were burning her gasoline and not mine!
> 
> Good of you to handle the negotiations over the furnishings, too. When I bought my last house, I found out later that the seller had wanted to offer to sell me most of the furniture. The Realtor was supposed to have informed me and provided a price list, but he didn't bother. I learned about it later because the seller moved into another house she owned, which was right up the road. I was disappointed, as I would have taken the living room set, and probably some other things, off her hands.


I am sorry to hear that as your Agent gets an F, and her Broker should have been notified!

When working for Buyers, it isn't always clear what they want. The first thing I do is go over their criteria, then only show them properties that meet the criteria. I also concentrate in the area (s), they tell me they want. It is usually clear what Buyers want after the first few showings. Most of my Buyers actually choose their homes after being shown six or less. The reason? Just like with that couple, I really listen to my Clients, pay attention to their reactions, and expressions. The small talk often helps. 

Some Buyers know exactly what want and also need, being very decisive, while others believe they know what they want and need. I have represented folks who wanted a home in town, only to completely change their minds, and make an offer on a nice country home on acreage. In the end, my goal is to make sure they get what they want & need, at the best price I can negotiate for them.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks to the advice here on HT as well as some independent research I decided to use a Buyers Agent to find the house I currently have under contract.

I picked the agent because he is one of about 3 or 4 in the area that seem to specialize in rural properties AND he had no properties of his own that I was interested in. He initially made a feeble attempt at trying to show me one of his properties that was close to one of my primary interests but he could not get the seller to come down to my range which is on the lower price per acre end of property in my area.

So I had already done my research and we looked at my #1 and my #2 choice after I looked at those two I knew which my wife would like and we showed her the #2 choice first then MY #1 choice.

My agent did a lot of research on the seller and the property because he knew nothing about either when we started. After performing the research and we considered values of the house, land, and outbuildings he and I agreed on what a fair value for the house would be. I wanted to offer considerable less then that price and my wife and agent talked me into offering more. Still the offer was aggressive and the seller came really close, I countered not moving up much and they accepted.

The one thing I didn't like about my agent is the feeble attempt at showing me a property that he had listed that I had already rejected, and him trying to IMO put a little subtle pressure to get me to make an offer before I had finished thinking about it. The subtle pressure was him telling me about another client that was looking for a similar property and because I was his customer first he wouldn't show her the property I now have under contract. I think that was BS and that he was just trying to get me to move faster - I didn't - if it's meant to be then it will happen, if not then I will keep on looking.

So now we are on to the inspection stage which I can still back out of the contract and at this point I'll start a new thread but want to finish this post by saying I would highly recommend a buyer use a Buyer's agent and tell the agent if they have a property they think I will be interested in that I will have to find a new buyer's agent to view those properties.


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## Gianni (Dec 9, 2009)

We bought a home where the realtor represented both. He cut his commission in half by giving us three points . If you trust them it is OK. If you don't trust them find someone else.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

SCRancher, Agents are supposed to write up offers in the amounts their Clients decide. Part of our job is to do the research necessary to put our Buyers in the best negotiating position. My most recent Clients wanted to make their offer 5,000 less than asking, also requesting everything in the house and garage. Since I encouraged them to ask for all personal possessions in house and garage, also felt that was certainly within range, I told them it was a good offer (unlikely to ruffle feathers). I got a call from them, shortly after we all left, and they decided to offer $10,000 less than asking, same terms, and asked what I thought. I did share a concern the Seller may not counter (that can happen if the Seller is too turned off). That is why I wrote a nice email to the Listing Agent, to insure her Sellers would be told my Clients were respectfully submitting this offer (knowing of the fathers death). That father was WW2 Vet; my Clients are Military.

The point is, that I wrote the Offer in the amount my Clients chose, not an amount I chose. I give my Clients the info they need to determine market value, but they always choose the price.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

Our agent did write up the offer in the amount we decided - just he and my wife convinced me to offer more that I think I should have - it's OK I'm still satisfied - but I think I ended up spending a bit more than I could have is all. Now that the inspections are completed it looks like there is around 20k worth of repairs that should be performed which I will go into more detail once I get all the estimates back in writing - right now I have 1 of the 4 in writing and am waiting on the other 3 in writing - the 20k+ number is from the verbal estimates.


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