# Navicular question



## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I have a 20 ish year old QH gelding, very small little guy, that came with a Percheron I picked up in April. The little guys problems started years ago I'm sure, but I am the one trying to manage him now and am really unfamiliar with Navicular in horses. He has a very difficult time walking, both fronts are affected. I am ready to put him down, but am looking for last ditch effort management possibilities to help him stay alive. 

Right now he gets 2 g bute daily, without it he almost can't walk at all. We put pads and shoes on him several weeks ago, it hasn't helped at all. He was very thin and in a small, confined area for many years, which is why he survived with this issue for so long. Now that he is on the ranch, he moves with the herd on a large acreage and has gained some weight (though not a lot), and his Navicular has gotten much worse since he came just for those two reasons. I can't confine him, I don't have paddocks as we graze our horses on multiple pastures that are not fenced for the most part. Even if we had fencing, the smallest pasture is 11 acres and he would still be moving a lot. 

Anyone out there have a navicular horse, both fronts, and managed it successfully in an older, previously neglected horse? I appreciate any info. Thanks.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I haven't dealt with a navicular horse in years, heart bar shoes/pads and isoxuprine used to be the go to treatment. 

I googled new treatment and found this:

http://www.horsecollaborative.com/promising-new-treatments-for-navicular-syndrome/#


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Thanks for the link Irish Pixie. I read through he information, an edit is something my vet had already talked to me extensively about. Because of his age and degree of disease, sadly Ranger is not a candidate for either of the new treatment. I will talk to my vet again to see if we could possibly go ahead and TRY the less expensive one, but I can't put out the more expensive cost for Tildren when my vet already has argued against using it. 

Thankfully, I do have one of the top lameness experts in the country as one of my 3 vets at our clinic. I am really reaching to try and save this little gelding, but the reality is he is probably going to have to be out down. I don't have the heart to watch him struggle to keep up with my filly or older mare he hangs out with, it is so sad. They actually have learned to slow down for him to keep up, which I think is entirely sweet. But...he still struggles...

Thanks for the info, I am going to go back to my vet for the less expensive option, see if he will do it or not. If he says no, it isn't being mean, he knows better than I do what the outcome will be...


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

aoconnor1 said:


> Thanks for the link Irish Pixie. I read through he information, an edit is something my vet had already talked to me extensively about. Because of his age and degree of disease, sadly Ranger is not a candidate for either of the new treatment. I will talk to my vet again to see if we could possibly go ahead and TRY the less expensive one, but I can't put out the more expensive cost for Tildren when my vet already has argued against using it.
> 
> Thankfully, I do have one of the top lameness experts in the country as one of my 3 vets at our clinic. I am really reaching to try and save this little gelding, but the reality is he is probably going to have to be out down. I don't have the heart to watch him struggle to keep up with my filly or older mare he hangs out with, it is so sad. They actually have learned to slow down for him to keep up, which I think is entirely sweet. But...he still struggles...
> 
> Thanks for the info, I am going to go back to my vet for the less expensive option, see if he will do it or not. If he says no, it isn't being mean, he knows better than I do what the outcome will be...


It's not easy but best to listen to your Vet. If he or she says there is nothing the medication can do and the gelding is in pain, have him put down. It's the kindest thing you can do. It's just not easy.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> It's not easy but best to listen to your Vet. If he or she says there is nothing the medication can do and the gelding is in pain, have him put down. It's the kindest thing you can do. It's just not easy.


I know, I was hoping against hope that someone would have a "home remedy"" type option for pain relief. I know one isn't going to come along, but I am hurt for this poor guy. He has had a horrid last 6 years, I just got him in April, and it's only July and he is needing to be put down. It isn't fair, he "should" have had a better life, but he didn't. SO it is up to me to do this sad thing, when really, the person who dumped him to non-horse people who tried to ride him when he was 14 and probably in pain then should have to put him down. Or the people who had him for the last 6 years who ignored all signs of pain and illness, not even noticing he couldn't chew to eat anymore because he had a 2 inch long molar on his top right side. Sigh. I so dislike humans sometimes...


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

aoconnor1 said:


> I know, I was hoping against hope that someone would have a "home remedy"" type option for pain relief. I know one isn't going to come along, but I am hurt for this poor guy. He has had a horrid last 6 years, I just got him in April, and it's only July and he is needing to be put down. It isn't fair, he "should" have had a better life, but he didn't. SO it is up to me to do this sad thing, when really, the person who dumped him to non-horse people who tried to ride him when he was 14 and probably in pain then should have to put him down. Or the people who had him for the last 6 years who ignored all signs of pain and illness, not even noticing he couldn't chew to eat anymore because he had a 2 inch long molar on his top right side. Sigh. I so dislike humans sometimes...


He did have a better life, aoconnor. You made it better for the last 3 months.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Sometimes the very best life we can give them is to end their pain. Not every horse can be saved. A friend of mine has a mare with navicular and she has studied, talked to experts, tried shoes, meds and all the off the wall remedies she has come across and nothing helped the mare. I believe she even took her up to Purdue and had her nerved but I'm not going to swear to that one. I know she was talking about it but I don't know if they did it after they got there because there was some question about the mare being so young (discovered at 2 years of age as soon as they started working with her). 

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this but rest assured that letting him go isn't being cruel to him.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Thank you Teej and Irish Pixie. It is a comfort to know he at least will be put down in much better condition than he arrived in. He has had a good life here, though short. He is such a good uncle to my yearling filly, she will really be the one who misses him the most. 

It will probably be next week sometime when I have him put down. I want him here with me, so will have my vet come up and put him down here, then we can bury him on the ranch.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I had two navicular syndrome horses. One didn't have any radiological changes but he eventually healed after a few years and it was surmised that he had severely strained his deep flexor tendon (can't remember exactly...been many years). He was my hunter and he went on to teach my kids to ride and show and died in his 30's. 
The other was a gelding I'd raised since birth and he had the real deal. We tried everything and eventually made the tough decision to euthanize. It's so hard but I think you are doing the right thing. You are in my thoughts.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Thank you basketti, I appreciate your kind words.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I wish I had suggestions for you but all I can offer is sympathy.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

Sad. I don't have any good answers. Guess I'd rely on the advice of my farrier more than anyone else. I have a very experienced farrier and I know he'd give me the nitty-gritty, good news or bad.

I shy away from QH and Paints these days because of the problem. Used to be an Appaloosa person, raised and used the old style hairless, tough, good-footed foundation variety. Now that they are crossed with the modern QH so often, I would be hesitant with Appys too. Like I said...sad. 

I hope someone can help your boy, but at least now he's landed with someone who will do right by him.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Alder said:


> Sad. I don't have any good answers. Guess I'd rely on the advice of my farrier more than anyone else. I have a very experienced farrier and I know he'd give me the nitty-gritty, good news or bad.
> 
> I shy away from QH and Paints these days because of the problem. Used to be an Appaloosa person, raised and used the old style hairless, tough, good-footed foundation variety. Now that they are crossed with the modern QH so often, I would be hesitant with Appys too. Like I said...sad.
> 
> I hope someone can help your boy, but at least now he's landed with someone who will do right by him.


My farrier said he would have put him down before we even tried the pads and shoes:-(. I am listening, it just is hard to! I am having my vet come this week and put him down, then will bury him here at home so he at least can stay with us. 

I have 11 QH's, none with any issues at all. I have all old lines, ones that have stood the test of time and are still going strong. This boy is 20 something years old, he is the only one with a problem. Poor old guy, but at least he's home now with me and I will help him be out of pain for good.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

wr said:


> I wish I had suggestions for you but all I can offer is sympathy.


I will take that with much appreciation wr. Thank you.


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## CountryMom22 (Nov 27, 2014)

I'm crying as I read this. It's so sad. At least he's had a home where he was loved and cared for. That's more than many get these days.

Give the little guy a hug for me, and don't be hard on yourself. You've done what you can, and will now do what is best for him. It's a shame that at 20 years old, you're probably the only one who has put his needs first in a very long time.


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## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

Decision that's hard on the heart but made out of love- give him a loving pat from all of us.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Thanks again to all of you. Now you have ME crying again... I thought I had cried it all out already. Consider him patted...and cookied. And hugged. That's what he has been getting all weekend so far.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

I'll send word out to my gang that has already gone over the rainbow bridge to keep an eye out for him and to take him under their wings.


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## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

Teej said:


> I'll send word out to my gang that has already gone over the rainbow bridge to keep an eye out for him and to take him under their wings.


Just lost my girl last week- she looooooves the boys, she'll be there!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

RideBarefoot said:


> Just lost my girl last week- she looooooves the boys, she'll be there!


I'm sorry for your loss. It's never easy. I still catch myself searching the pasture for the old gelding and he's been gone 5 years.


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## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

Thank you, Irish Pixie. Lost my old gelding (Rebel) two years ago. I knew the end was coming, but what helped tremendously was waking up the next morning thinking "he's not in pain anymore". Helped me to be at peace about it.

This one was a total shock- she slipped in the mud and broke her femur. Impossible to stabilize; so I kissed her nose, told her to go find Rebel, and buried her in her field.

I truly do think horses watch out for their people. My last words to Rebel were "come back to me"; he in his infinite wisdom decided it would take way to long to get here as a foal and grow up, so he sent me SuperHorse (my new gelding). I see so much of Rebel in him.


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## [email protected] (Sep 13, 2012)

the best way to help manage a navicular horse's pain is by dramatically inceasing the angle of his front feet to maybe a 55 degree. This can be done with degree pads and proper shoeing. It's sad - the amount of pain they will endure. What has happened is that the horse either naturally or artificially was kept at too low an angle in front which weighted the navicular bone which finally got additional calcium deposits on it. As in founder - there can be a rotation inside the hoof - all which is so painful as about 2/3 of the horses's weight is carried on their front feet. some lessons are learned the hard way.
Better to keep angles up on young horses - easy to lower - difficult to increase.

sjp


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> the best way to help manage a navicular horse's pain is by dramatically inceasing the angle of his front feet to maybe a 55 degree. This can be done with degree pads and proper shoeing. It's sad - the amount of pain they will endure. What has happened is that the horse either naturally or artificially was kept at too low an angle in front which weighted the navicular bone which finally got additional calcium deposits on it. As in founder - there can be a rotation inside the hoof - all which is so painful as about 2/3 of the horses's weight is carried on their front feet. some lessons are learned the hard way.
> Better to keep angles up on young horses - easy to lower - difficult to increase.
> 
> sjp


My horse who was diagnosed but recovered, most definitely was a victim of low heels and long toes. This was before I knew much and relied on a "farrier" who kept telling me I wasn't having him trimmed often enough...and we were up to every three weeks.:hammer:
It took a few years for him to recover but he did. The other horse always was kept with a good high angle...I had him since birth. He still got navicular (with changes visible in X-rays). Both horses did have short, upright pasterns.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> the best way to help manage a navicular horse's pain is by dramatically inceasing the angle of his front feet to maybe a 55 degree. This can be done with degree pads and proper shoeing. It's sad - the amount of pain they will endure. What has happened is that the horse either naturally or artificially was kept at too low an angle in front which weighted the navicular bone which finally got additional calcium deposits on it. As in founder - there can be a rotation inside the hoof - all which is so painful as about 2/3 of the horses's weight is carried on their front feet. some lessons are learned the hard way.
> Better to keep angles up on young horses - easy to lower - difficult to increase.
> 
> sjp


I have a master farrier working on this boy, but the horse didn't come to me until April this year. The damage had been done a long time before he arrived in my care. I am simply trying to prolong his stay here, but it isn't looking good of him.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

RIP my Ranger boy. Vet visit was a bad one today, made the choice to put Ranger down. He is in no pain now....


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Sorry. Sometimes there is no happy ending. You did what you could for him.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

aoconnor1 said:


> RIP my Ranger boy. Vet visit was a bad one today, made the choice to put Ranger down. He is in no pain now....


I'm sorry. You did your absolute best for him. And remember "he's in no pain now."


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I'm so sorry, but thankful you took him home and made his last days good ones.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Sometimes the best gift we can give them is to release them from their pain. I'm sorry for the loss, it still hurts us even when it's in their best interest.


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## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

When you wake up tomorrow morning, think about him in horsie heaven rockin' it on his four good feet!


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## DragonFlyFarm (Oct 12, 2012)

Ranger is now pain free and just plain free. I bet he is galloping like mad. He left this world knowing love and kindness. You gave that to him, what a beautiful gift. Hugs to you.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

I'm so sorry. In many ways, you gave him the kindest gift.


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## CountryMom22 (Nov 27, 2014)

You did the only responsible thing. You did right by him, even though it hurts. Unfortunately, we can't save them all, but at least you ended his pain, and in his last days, he knew he was loved. My condolences.

Sleep well, Ranger.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I'm very sorry.


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