# In need of a LGD



## Middle River (Apr 11, 2007)

We are moving from WI to ND ( far NW of the state ) soon, and I've been looking for a LGD for some time now with no luck in finding the "right" one ( or two ). We know from the local ranchers my husband knows, that there have been quite a few losses, most recently to coyotes and lions. This, as well as my husband seeing both on several occasions since he has been working there in Jan. ( he works for the county and is often working the roads, so sees a lot of wildlife ) has me starting to freak about not finding our guardian yet.

Not to mention it seems EVERYBODY lets their dogs run free there, so strays are also a huge concern.

We have Alpine goats, horses and chickens that need protecting. But ideally I'd like to find a dog that will "guard the ranch" - pretty much a one stop dog that will not left theft or damages to us, property or animals happen. Also, that means I'm looking for a dog that will be close working, not wandering off by nature and leaving us undefended. We also do have 3 house dogs, so hope to find something that we can all live in harmony with - we are experienced dog handlers, but this would be nice. I'm starting to feel like I'm asking for too much as I haven't found anything that will seem to work in the 4 months I've been looking.

Will consider any dog(s) or pup(s) - but if a pup(s) that they have the drive to guard very strongly so we don't have to wait 15 months, nor have a HUGE puppy stage to work thru. We also prefer the rare breeds ( or even certain crosses of such), just to do our part to promote and preserve if we can - but since we are running out of time, will consider any breed or cross if it's the right one for us.

Will also need to either fly to WI or ND, or transported via ground - in which case any tips on possible transport would be greatly appreiated, as well as any lines on LGDs that would work for us. If we can't find one right now, also willing to look into getting on a waiting list.


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## horsepoor21 (Mar 14, 2007)

Hi there ! 

I believe I chatted with you over e-mail about your Alpines (that I'm still trying to talk my hubby into !) , and you are so right . The coyotes are absolutely horrible over this way ! I lived in Watford City ,ND for a year and we had many poultry losses . We had to put our 4 goats we had at the time in a chain link dog run to keep them safe at night ! 

Over here , my neighbor had two coyotes staring at her thru her sliding glass doors in the middle of the afternoon ! They were on her patio ! 

So we invested in a Maremma puppy I got from a guy over in Philipsburg ,MT and then a Turkish Kangal from Brian (MonsterMalak) . They are keeping them at bay so far !

I know Jordan (another member here) had a new litter of Spanish Mastiff's but I'm not sure if they're all spoken for or not ,she's in WI ! 

And then Brenda (Goatress) might have some dogs for sale ? 

You'll definitely need them over there .
Welcome to ND ! It's a whole other world with the oil field . Be on the watch at all times when driving those roads !


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## jordan (Nov 29, 2006)

Hi Middle River,
I'm located in SW Wisconsin and have had LGD's for 10 years (my Spanish Mastiff's for 8). Please feel free to contact me privately if you would like to talk more or arrange for a visit (I'm home most days). 
In my personal experience, I have found the SM to be a fabulous all purpose farm dog! They bond very closely to all that they are raised with (people and livestock), are extremely intelligent and are large enough to intimidate/handle most predators (2 and 4 legged). I have quite a bit of information about the breed and what behaviors you can expect from them on my website http://www.fallcreekfarm.net/temperament.htm
No matter what LGD you get, you can expect to have to spend time training it. 
As difficult as it seems, try not to make a snap decision because you feel the pressure is on!
Lois


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## Middle River (Apr 11, 2007)

Hello again Amy! Thanks for the reply, I am getting a bit nervous about not yet having one by the time we move, but also need to have the right dog(s). Pretty short on time, so as soon as I get a chance I will search those out you mentioned and see if I can find their contact info...Hopefully somebody has something that may work, or will at some point in the near future. I have always admired the Kangals, and rather like the sounds of them in terms of how they work and how assertive they sound. You don't ever plan on having pups do you? The coyotes are intense out there, and bold. The MT lions kinda have me on edge too, for the fact that my husband has seen them even during the day, makes me wonder how bold they are too out there.

We had a Pryenean Mastiff a few years back and she was such a great dog with her duties to the animals and us and since she passed I've missed having a LGD but we really didn't need one anymore...until now. Besides the wild predators, I'm really concerned about the dogs that everybody just lets roam around - ----es me off not only for our animal's security, but also as it just is not responsible in my opinion at all. Of course our only neighbor has a couple of labs that are obviously duck hunters and they have been over to our place many times while we have been over there working on the house - when we talked to the neighbors about it being an issue when we move in with our animals, they pretty much said tuff, they aren't going to try to keep them home.

DH and I really don't want to harm any dogs as we are dog lovers and truely belive it's the owners fault so would hate to to have the dogs to have to suffer the consequences, but of course our animals safety comes first. At least I checked into laws out there and we have the right to defend our property and animals with ANY means nessasary, but again I don't want to have it get to that if possible, nor feel like if we are off the farm that something could happen then.

Jordan - Thanks for the reply! I will check out your site again, I looked at it a couple years ago when was looking at SMs - I may see if your # is on there and give you a call to talk more about them, so don't be surprized if you hear from me :+)

Thanks all!


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

_but if a pup(s) that they have the drive to guard very strongly so we don't have to wait 15 months, nor have a HUGE puppy stage to work thru. _

OK I have to jump in here and say this: you are sending mixed messages (to me anyhow...). I raise both Spanish Mastiffs and Pyrenean Mastiffs, both of which are EXTREMELY SLOW TO MATURE....and grow, and finish..... I am talking WAY MORE than say, a Kangal, an Anatolian or a Maremma....and THEY take a long time too.... 

You say you had a PM once...yet you also say the above statement (in italics). My PM's are under and near 1 year of age and although they can guard now, they also have mature dogs here backing them up - you do not. How could you expect something to not have a long puppy stage after owning a PM?

For what you have said, I would be hesitant to sell you either an SM or a PM, both of which I be having litters of in the spring - for fear that you'd grow impatient, expect too much, then be disappointed when the pup is still gangly, not capable of guarding yet, and you have predators eating your stock.

What I don't see you talking about is your fencing lay out, or what your fence is even like. Before you buy ANYTHING - pup or broke dog - you need to assess your experience with dogs and LGD's; you need to take a hard look at your fence; and you need to think about your expectations. 

You say you also have three pet dogs. Do they run in your stock? Because a good broke older LGD (and honestly that is really what you should be buying first, and get pups later), would probably consider them a threat and treat them as such.

It sounds to me like you really aren't sure about what you need. And you should do a lot more research. Because a good LGD will protect you against dogs. My friend who is selling her three broke dogs right now has an Akbash that's already killed seven dogs that intruded in her sheep. Yes, killed seven dogs - an impressive track record for any LGD on full time duty like this dog is. If you can't handle that, you really should re-think even owning LGD's, IMO. 

I may sound harsh, but I would rather you looked at this as an investment in something that is long term and not like its a spur of the moment buy or quick fix. And do you even need one right away? Until you move there and see it day and night constantly, you may find you can get by with solid better fencing, or herding stock in closer at night, until you know what you want.

As for breeds.....don't overlook the popular breeds like Pyrs, Maremmas, etc.

Many breeds including SM's and PM's would fit your situation I think but I am more concerned about YOUR perceptions, your wants, your grasp of what responsibility and time goes into this and the fact that you won't tolerate long puppyhood.

Look at Barbados Sheep - her sheep are afraid of her pups - it will cure in time but takes patience, so she has a curve to work through, but she will.....in time those pups will settle in and the sheep will get dog broke. No push button solutions here. You buy a pup - great - plan on it being not able to guard on its own for a year. Pushing out there sooner, without older dog back up, is 'puppycide' IMO.....

If it were me? And again, only my opinion, I'd move there first, really get a good grasp on what's there, what is going on, don't just rely on one mans' report of predators - maybe its better or worse? THEN, do your dog shopping. If it were me, I'd go with broke older dogs first, bring pups in later. It is SO much easier in the long run to let older broke dogs show a pup the ropes. Besides my friends' dogs there was someone else on the barter board here who is selling older broke/started dogs - check them out too. I think it was an Anatolian Pyr cross, not sure now. But call them.

Again not to sound harsh, I am only being realistic, and some people don't want to hear that, but I don't soft sell the trials and tribulations aspects of owning_ ANY_ breed of LGD. There are always issues, dog fights, breaking in time, etc. etc etc...... Even with older dogs. And you have pet dogs which are going to throw in another dynamic to all this. You will have to think how you are going to let them mingle or not with LGD's and then if you do, if they chase stock, will the LGD protect the stock if its a pup being raised with pets? All these things....think about, before you buy anything. Good luck, do your homework, don't just take one opinion, keep open mind, listen to everyone and do your research.


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## horsepoor21 (Mar 14, 2007)

I talked to my husband who works and practicly lives in western ND and he says they see wolves near Stanley , he's never seen any mtn lions though .

I'd definitely get an adult if you could !


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## Middle River (Apr 11, 2007)

I don't think I worded myself correctly, I under stand the amount of time it takes to become physically and mentally mature, and that has been why ive thus far been looking into an adult with no luck. Thats were my statement about not wanting to wait came from, but now since I haven't found one I'm considering all. I've been looking a long time and have done reasearch now and years ago when we got our PM. And in raiseing her we learned a lot too.

We are new ti living there, but not new to there. We have been out there quite a bit the last few years as my dad is from there, long family history. And my dh has been living there since January . We have a long ways to go yet, but do have the beginnings set up. We know what we will need, but are so very much open to advice as it is an investment to us, an important one.

Our dogs do not run with the stock, they are house dogs, when outside are with us. They are great dogs, but we feel the need to be responsible by making sure they stay out of harm.

I have to say thank you too, I'm on my cell so kinda hard to reply, but u did get me thinking about a few things that will be very helpful.


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## MonsterMalak (Apr 15, 2011)

Hello, I usually try to avoid trying to sell on the forums, as some will shut you down quick.

I do have a brother to the Turkish Kangal that HorsePoor21 has. A little smaller, but full of BIG BOY attitude! Hopefully will have some BOZ/Kangal litters soon,,,,, if Monsters dedication and constant LOVE have paid off. Poor guy has lost 15 pounds following the two girls around. My site is www.monstermalak.com. 

I would have to say that the Kangal may not be fully mature, but would charge out to engage the coyotes at 6-8 months old. Their drive is what I admire. 

If large predators are your concern, I would firstly choose a larger dog, and also one that is able to give chase, and fight if needed. There are many dogs that could fit this order. But in my opinion, the Boz have a collection of qualities seen in few other breeds. Size, strength, speed, ability, predator drive, temperment, low prey drive, health, longevity, love, bonding,,,, and they are beautiful. 

Good luck in your search;


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## Faithful (Jul 15, 2011)

We have CKC,Anatolian Shepherd puppies 5 mo old and 2 AKC that are 2 year old for sale.
www.livestockguardianangels.com.


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

LadyJane has a GP in need of a home!

pm me and I will give you her email or contact her here. here is the information:

"Our female LGD is six years old, not spayed and her rabies shot is current. She is 75% Anatolian Shepherd and 25% Great Pyrennes. Has more of the Anatolian look with cream/white colored fur and black markings especially around the head area. Weighs somewhere around 95 lbs.

She was raised on a working farm until she was 10 months old and we have had goats off and on for most of her life. Is fine around other dogs, has always been gentle and never aggressive with us. Is okay with strangers once she knows we know them. Has been a great watch dog for our property as she has a ferocious bark! Needs lots of room.

We are planning a move in a year or less and need to find a good home for her. Located in the far NW corner of Ohio - tri-state area of Indiana, Ohio and Michigan."


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## Faithful (Jul 15, 2011)

We Also trade


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