# dosages for horse strongid and quest gel..



## crisco41 (Dec 18, 2008)

HI wondering if anyone knowsor has a link for dosing a goat using quest gel and also strongid paste horse wormer 
thanks


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## jaytori220 (Jul 23, 2008)

Do not use Quest in goats! I dont remember the ivermectin dosage...sorry...


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## crisco41 (Dec 18, 2008)

ohmy..why not? I was just told to get some.....


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Horse paste Ivermectin you use 3 times the amount on goats...so a 100 lb goat you would set the plunger at 300lbs. You don't have to worry too much about overdosing...better to give too much than not enough and I have heard or instances where the whole tube was given by accident with no ill effects.. 
I don't know anything about the Quest..sorry.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2009)

I've used the Quest (moxidectin) horse gel on my goats several times, never had a problem. The horse dose and goat dose are the same(per pound), and the dispenser is calibrated in 50lb increments, so I found it pretty handy.

Why did you hear that Quest shouldn't be used on goats? Some people were using the nasty smelling pour on orally, that _really_ sounded like a bad idea...

Edit:

Quest gel is calibrated at .4mg/kg, which is the same recommended dosage for goats. Apparently injectable is the preferred method for giving goats moxidectin, though...


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Quest is fine for goats, IMO. The same active ingriedient as Cydectin, but made for ORAL use!

I use 3x the horse dose on my goats; so for 100 lb goats, I use 300# worth of Quest.

One tube of Quest split 3 ways for my 3 adult goats every 12 weeks (they are not breeding, other wise I would worm more often)


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## crisco41 (Dec 18, 2008)

ok..i just wormed with ivermectrin..after taping them and giving 3 times the weight on the tube
and now i se a snotty nose onthe one I "considered" the healthy one..geeze goats...why did I do this? what to do now..vet gave me a antibiotic shot i gave a few days ago( sat) for pneumonia..knowing i had stressed them when i brought them home and they werent eating well. heck..i drove them home inside a minivan..not like they got chilled.. now what> ? anyone?


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## jaytori220 (Jul 23, 2008)

Quest I would never use on my horses when I had them. Its a wormer that you cannot overdose. Ivermectin and fenbendazole is so much safer to use and can be overdosed. An accidental overdose of Quest can be fatal.


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

jaytori220 said:


> Quest I would never use on my horses when I had them. Its a wormer that you cannot *(shouldn't)* overdose. Ivermectin and fenbendazole is so much safer to use and can *(should)* be overdosed. An accidental overdose of Quest can be fatal.


my type added to your quote in bold. semantically/grammatically your post was confusing and I want to clarify for people that cydectin (quest) can more easily be over dosed. meaning it _is_ possible to give them too much. ivermectin and fenbendazole have very high margins of safety and are difficult to overdose. 

my research turned up that quest should be given at the same as the horse dose to acheive the typical 1 cc per 22lb dose that is standard (and much more used) for the pour on (used orally). I would check out the mg per ml on quest and dose it to the standard mg for weight before I used it at 3 x the dose as jill suggests. later tonight I will check.

edited to add: not bein snipey. I was afraid it came off like I give rats a%^ about grammar, I don't care about that. I was just afraid somebody would read it and think "I'll give 'em the whole tube I read you can't overdose it".


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

quest is 20 mg per ml
cydectin pour on is 5mg per ml

so quest is 4x as strong as the pour on.

the dose for pour on is 1ml for each 22lbs.

so the dose for quest should be 1/4 ml for 22lbs for a goat or 1ml (20mg) per 88lbs 

the horse dosage is .4mg per kg.(2.2lbs) so that is 16mg per 88lbs

so the goat dose of quest is 20% more than the horse dose. a 100lb goat would be dosed at 120lbs. 

that is what thought I came up with before. its pretty close to the same as teh horse dose. that is also why I stopped using it. because its too hard to dose the 60lbers accuratly.

jill- by my figureing 3x is way too much. but I'm glad to know that at that rate there have been no ill effects. most wormers have a relatively high margin of safety and I am sure moxidectin is no exception.

I tried to find it but Ican't. I have previously found references to the margin of safety of fenbendazole, ivermectin and moxidectin. I remember specifically that they couldn't find any ill effects at hundreds of times the standard dosage of fenbendazole. it seems like ivermectin had to be 50 times the dosage to see any ill effects and moxidectin was somwheres around 12. I'm not sure of the exact numbers but I am positive that moxidectin had the smalles margin of safety by quite a bit and it was possible to overdose. and that ivermectin and fenbendazole were virtually impossible to overdose in normal situations.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Quest goat dosage is 1 cc per 100 lbs body weight

http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,60.0.html


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

DQ said:


> quest is 20 mg per ml
> cydectin pour on is 5mg per ml
> 
> so quest is 4x as strong as the pour on.
> ...


Oh, well, nuts! :shrug: I will re-examine all of the Quest info I just got (thank you, all!) and come up with a more precise doseage for my goaties! But YES, I HAVE been giving them the "300#"-marker (for the first goat, the 600# for the second goat, and the 900# for the third goat) on the tube every 12 weeks for over 2 years and they're all happy, fattie, loud, obnoxious little pests (er, _pets_)!


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## betsy h. (Sep 28, 2008)

Where are you getting that Quest is harmful to goats? I know a goat vet who uses Quest exclusively on her herd, and has for years, and has NO problems whatsoever. If you want to talk to her, I can give you the info on a PM.

Plus, you cannot overdose Moxidectin- the problem lies in the fact that it works so well that if you use it on a vey worm laiden or starved animal, it will kill the parasites so quickly that toxins are released into the goats' sytem and they will die from the dead worm toxin overload. Some folks actually have to administer anti-biotics when worming such animals.

Cydectin pour on dosage for goats is 1ml per 10lbs., not 22lbs. Why ? Because it is metabolized way different in goats than in cattle. This is the info that the TN Extension is giving out to goat folks. Cydectin injectable is dosed at 1ml per 50lbs, like you would Ivomec, as per Polly at Tri-Quest Boers. This is what I use, injected. Never had a problem.

While safe, Fenbedazole (Safegard) is like pouring water on their backs in some areas, esp. TN. That is why Strongid because it is safe at all stages of pregnancy and other 'white' wormers (Valbazen, Synanthic, etc.) are not.


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## betsy h. (Sep 28, 2008)

I think folks are confusing Levamasol(Triamisol) wormer with Moxidectin. 

Levamasole is supremely weight specific- if you over dose by 20 lbs. you 've got a dead animal. 

It is not possible to overdose Moxidectin. The biggest problem with these Ivermectin products is underdosing and creating a resistant strain of worms.


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## barelahh (Apr 13, 2007)

DQ said:


> quest is 20 mg per ml
> cydectin pour on is 5mg per ml
> 
> so quest is 4x as strong as the pour on.
> ...


THat would be 1.6mg per 88lbs not 16mg per 88lbs.


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## crisco41 (Dec 18, 2008)

Ah well thankyou you guys. You are helping this newbie a bunch.
I am off today to bring a stool spec in to my vet. Goats poo looks slightly better then the mucous she had been passing...is like a mucous strand with actual little teeney tiny soft turd smeared on it. Pretty graphic HUH LOL
I am at a loss as to what else I can do. Took both gpoats temps this am///not an ez feat alone and with no means of restraint. 
No snot this am..wondering if i just saw some of the coccidia meds coming out her nose..This stuff is surely new..and when its about live critters it makes me a bit nervous to be so ignorant.
anyhow thanks all. It has been cold here..have them locked in barn..wondering if they'd be better off outside. They shake/shiver when i let them out side tho.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

betsy h. said:


> I think folks are confusing Levamasol(Triamisol) wormer with Moxidectin.
> 
> Levamasole is supremely weight specific- if you over dose by 20 lbs. you 've got a dead animal.
> 
> It is not possible to overdose Moxidectin. The biggest problem with these Ivermectin products is underdosing and creating a resistant strain of worms.


Well, of course you can overdose moxidectin, you mean it's not easy to overdose.


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## dbarjacres (Feb 2, 2004)

Quest has been fatal in horses if overdosed, believe that's where the poster is getting their info. It has a very low margin of saftey in equine. Not recommended at all for minis or foals, cause if the dial thingy slipped or the person gave them a whole tube on purpose it can cause death in equine. 

We give goats so much higher doses of everything and apparently with Jill's dosing, they are just fine from it! LOL I use Quest on my goats once a year and ivermectin the rest of the time.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

To throw in more confusion  I was told by my vet to use horse wormer at three times the dose. That info was incorrect. 
I use Ivermectin horse paste. Well that says it is 1.87 % iver, so using three times is too much. 
If it was a 1% paste that would be fine but it is almost twice that at 1.87. So the correct amount ( thanks to people here) is actually 2 times the dose. So a 200 pound goat would get it dialed to 400 pounds and not 600 pounds. I crank that and then squeeze it into a needless syrgine to make sure I have to correct dose also by cc's and give it that way. 
Getting their poop tested is probably the best way to go. This way you will know what you are worming for and treat accordingly.


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

barelahh said:


> THat would be 1.6mg per 88lbs not 16mg per 88lbs.



88lbs is 40 kg. http://www.manuelsweb.com/kg_lbs.htm

horses get .4mg per kg. so a 40kg horse  dose would be 16mg

.4 x 40 = 16

am I doing something wrong? I'm no math whiz.

goat dose is .5mg/kg so that is 20 (.5 x 40 = 20)

I stil come out the same.....?????


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## farmerjane (Jan 4, 2009)

I have heard that Quest is quiet poisionous to dogs, not sure how much truth there is there. The story behind that was that a Border Collie ate a bunch of horse poo after the horse was wormed and died from it ? Anybody else heard anything similer ?


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

southerngurl said:


> Quest goat dosage is 1 cc per 100 lbs body weight
> 
> http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,60.0.html


I've seen that but unfortunatly the tube is not marked with cc's (or at least it didnt' used to be) and its a royal PITA to extract the paste into a syringe. so I had to figure it by the % of weight.


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

"Moxidectin Quest, Cydectin extra-label 0.5 mg/kg PO 0 days ?"

http://www2.luresext.edu/goats/library/field/dawson02b.html

langston has come to the same conclusion as I. .5 mg kg (horse is .4mg/kg) so it is 20%. just take your goats weight and add 20% and you have your weight dose.

I ahve heard the dog thing too with the collie breeds. all avermectins are dangerous to them. I have to border collie mixes so I am careful.


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## betsy h. (Sep 28, 2008)

They came out with a moxidectin based heartworm med a few years back that was injected next to the spine on a dog. 

Bad idea. It was yanked off the market real quick.


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

yes it is hard to even look into it because of that fiasco with the dogs the searches turn up so much stuff about the collie sensitivity. apparently some carry a mutation that allows the moxidectin to cross the blood brain barrier. here is what merck vet says about the safety.

"Mammals are generally not adversely affected by macrocyclic lactones. The SI for the macrocyclic lactones is typically wide, but both abamectin and moxidectin are contraindicated in calves and foals <4 mo old, respectively, because of narrow safety margins in these classes of stock. Otherwise, single administration at ~10 times and multiple administration at 3 times the recommended therapeutic dose levels do not have any secondary effects on healthy host animals."
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/191505.htm&word=safety,anthelmintics

I still can't find that paper on the "how many times the reccomended dose can be given before seeing adverse affects" on the different wormers. it driving me cuckoo.


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

I always use Quest 1:1 with goats. Meaning that whatever the weight is for the goat? Is what I give. i.e., don't double or triple it for goats. Good Luck!


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## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

Is moxidectin (in any form) safe for pregnant goats after the first trimester? I need to look up what it kills. If my fecals say I need a de-wormer and a de-louser, I'd like to use one product that works safely. I'm told that lice are seasonal pests around here but I haven't had my goats here long enough to know if that is true with my herd. I have purchased goats that brought lice home and we treated everyone without a recurrence, but then winter set in.

One concern I've seen raised here about oral paste dosing is that the paste may or may not have the active ingredient well distributed throughout.


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## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

DQ said:


> "Moxidectin Quest, Cydectin extra-label 0.5 mg/kg PO 0 days ?"
> 
> http://www2.luresext.edu/goats/library/field/dawson02b.html
> 
> langston has come to the same conclusion as I. .5 mg kg (horse is .4mg/kg) so it is 20%.


Langston is giving that dosage for pour-on administration.


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## dragonchick (Oct 10, 2007)

Quest paste question.
If you have a goat who's weight is say in between the weights, at 75#, in between the 50# and 100#, do you use the higher weight amount? or the lower? She is not bred and has a cough. Otherwise she is healthy so I was thinking lungworm. None of the other goats are showing any signs or symptoms of anything amiss. Shes happy, healthy, good appetite, normal temp, peeing and pooping like a normal healthy goat, just has a cough.
DC


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## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

You use the amount for her weight. If it's too hard to dose with the Quest syringe, you can suck it out into another appropriately-sized syringe. Some one here said they had trouble doing that but when I do this with any paste, I just stick the empty syringe in the tip of the paste and pull back as I push down slowly on the paste plunger. I have not ever used Quest, however. Maybe there is something about that paste that makes it harder to do??


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## dragonchick (Oct 10, 2007)

Thanks Heather. I didn't want to under dose ad get something immune to Moxi but I also didn't want to overdose and make her sick in this horribly cold weather. Its been so cold that the deer are having a field day/night. The deer like the cold, I and the goats don't.


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## crisco41 (Dec 18, 2008)

just wanted to update,,,,lil goat is doing much better., I gave her 5cc vit b complex...and she is eating! she is eating mostly hay..but i gace her a tiny bit of grqain and alfalfa pellets. and she ate! more then she's eatenin a week. If i ever transport a goat again..i will be treating with b before I haul.Its a miracle med.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Good news!  Now you can just have fun!


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## crisco41 (Dec 18, 2008)

they are sooo cute.....and all these babies on this forum are making me want a baby. neither of mine are bred this year,,,Soon I should be able to find a milk doe baby ya think? Maybe by then I will have gotten good fence up......


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