# How To Start Hundreds Of Tree Seedlings???



## 45n5 (Jun 9, 2008)

I saved tons of seeds from trees this fall. Mostly poplar, ash, and locust.

I want to start these seeds indoors and plant them outside in the spring.

I am cold stratifying them now. 

*Cheap Pots or Trays?*

What would you suggest for the pots or trays? Can i start them in regular trays that I start veggie seeds in? Or do the pots need to be deeper?

A cheap or DIY solution would be great. These guys seem expensive: Stuewe & Sons - Tree Seedling Nursery Containers

*Lighting And Location*

I have some 4 foot flourescent garden lights from lowes and will put them near south facing windows.

I want them started indoors not outdoors. I started a bunch of seeds outdoors last year and I can't mark where I put the seed outdoors and they get lost in the weeds or never make it.

Starting them indoors will help give them a head start and I can more easily locate them when they are planted out.

*Setups*

Anybody else growing a bunch of tree seedlings for the spring starting soon? Do you have any ideas on setups for doing this?

Would love to see pictures or hear your ideas.


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

I collected as many styrofoam soda containers as I could find that I poked holes in the bottum. Filled with soil, they were good for the seedling's first year of life.

Do a little more research on seed treatment. I too sprouted locust, both black and honey, and what I remember is they did not receive cold stratification, but heat treatment. I can remember actually pouring boiling water into a cup of seeds as outlined in the on-line procedure I found. I think (not 100% sure) that the temperature for Honey locust was 100C and Black Locust was 65C.

Other seeds need scarification. I scraped the side of the seeds on sandpaper to break through the seedcoat. Remembered that improved germination from 10% to 90% for either mesquite or carob.

Good luck,
Michael


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Here is a link to a thread from last month on starting black locust seeds. As Michael states, the hot water treatment avoids the need for cold stratification.
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/co...gation/459282-starting-black-locust-seed.html

I pre-sprouted and then direct sowed my seeds. I will also heat treat and direct sow more locust seeds come march to see which ones do better.

If you have a BLM office nearby, it may be worthwhile to see if they have any old tree guards/protectors that they are getting rid of soon. I was able to get hundreds that they were disposing of at our local branch.


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## 45n5 (Jun 9, 2008)

thanks kb and micheal k

locust seeds can be treated or not, doesn't matter, it's the hard shell that is the problem. I have dropped them in boiling water and then soaked them over night and they sprouted good.

what are "styrofoam" containers for soda, you mean the plastic bottles?

my main issue is the setup, and keeping it cheap.

For instance, this is ridiculous, I just saw these on ebay and they want $15.00 for 10 of them, or $1.50 EACH, crazy, i'm gonna have to get creative













mark


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I've got pawpaw seeds chilling in the fridge.

Either 20 oz pop bottles with the top cut off and a couple holes in the bottom (use a hot nail, so much better than a drill) or styrofoam drinking cups (use the taller ones) will work well.

I've got a few of those tree pots. They came with the pawpaw seedlings I got a few years back. The bottom of the ones I have is open except for cross supports. You would have to line the bottom with newspaper or paper towel to keep the dirt in. And they tip over too easily.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

Generally nurseries seem to use narrow but deep paper pots for this type of thing. Im guessing they are very cheap being paper but I never sourced them. Similar to what you posted except made of paper. 

You might consider what I do even though it is outside. I got the method from a nursery owner. Plant them in VERY loose soil, with lots of wood dust in it. Plant them particularly close together and allow no weeds. Its easier to keep track of them since they are all in one close together spot. When they go dormant in winter then you can carefully un earth them and plant them where ever you had wanted. I have this going now, and I did it once in the past. It works well. I keeps the taproots intac as well if your careful which makes for stronger trees.


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## 45n5 (Jun 9, 2008)

thanks danaus i will use styrofoam cups if it comes too it, i didn't even think of the simple solution

thanks silverseeds 

cool idea, i could even put a small greenhouse over it to get an early start


i bet that is how the nurseries that sell "bareroot" trees do it, plant tons of them in loose soil and makes them easy to pull up.

I'll have to look into the type of soil they use around here to do that, kentucky clay



mark


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

The styro cups from Speedway, Circle K or Chic-fil-A can make great seed starters.

The large plastic style from McDonald's and Speedway are good too. They are easy to cut down with scissors if you need a shorter cup.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Since it's trees, most of the vegetable starting stuff is too shallow. Tree seeds generally are quick to send down a long taproot. The less damage done to that at transplanting time, the better for the eventual tree. The 6" tall "McCafe" styrofoam coffee cups would be great. Same for their 7" tall plastic cold drink cups. Seedlings would have ample room to develop a good root system and then minimal transplant shock or damage to the taproot. It will also be important to have a medium which will hold together so that everything can be removed intact.

By the way, biodegradable pots for starting trees is common for the above reason. That is, elimination of root damage when transplanting or potting up.

Martin


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

Paquebot said:


> It will also be important to have a medium which will hold together so that everything can be removed intact.


good post but... 
there is more then one way to skin a cat. 

It really does go both ways actually. You need to keep the taproot intact. which is easy with a light medium, where it falls away when you gently pull away the growing medium. The taproot is storing most of the energy of the tree. the sideroots will grow back if they happen to come off, but usually you can keep those intact as well. 

Im told this can be more effective then even deep pots with some things that have faster growing taproots. (Im not even sure which trees this referred to actually, but the person I got this from has been in the field decades as a nursery owner most of us heard of) Especially in areas where its dry such as for me, where you dont want the taproot hindered in growth in any way to get the best longterm results.

Using the taller pots does have its advantages as well. you can plant those out anytime. The other method you can only do it when they are dormant or they will likely die. 

This is indeed how many bareroot trees are grown. Probably all of them but I couldnt say for sure. I only know the methods of the one nursery. 

Ive got a patch going now, but I havent moved these yet. I did it as I had said in the past though and it worked well and was easy to do.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

If you end up with extra seeds left over after starting your trees indoors, seed balls may be another option for you in the spring:
Seed ball - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One other thought that I am looking to try for the first time this coming spring is soil blocks:
Topper'Topper's Place - Soil Blocks: Make your own block makers and save money.. How to make your soil block makers

The larger size blocks should work fine for tree seedlings. I haven't tried soil blocks before, but I've heard enough good things from people that makes me want to try them next year...


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Another good reason for avoiding any root disturbance is to avoid strangler roots. The 3 species involved here are not usually affected by that but applies in general to all trees. Biodegradable pots ensure that that doesn't happen. Same for any medium which remains intact when transferred from the starter unit to planting hole.

Martin


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

Paquebot said:


> Another good reason for avoiding any root disturbance is to avoid strangler roots. The 3 species involved here are not usually affected by that but applies in general to all trees. Biodegradable pots ensure that that doesn't happen. Same for any medium which remains intact when transferred from the starter unit to planting hole.
> 
> Martin


You are right that biodegradable pots are by far the best if your using pots. The paper pots mentioned are also open on the bottom. so if the roots hit the bottom, they can often be trimmed. 

Just so there isnt confusion though, the method I described will not interfere with the taproots at all if done correctly. It is as if the trees were direct planted. Whereas even deep biodegradable pots they can, especially if they were kept in the pots to long. Even a season can be to much if its a tree with fast growing roots. 

If you do want to grow in smaller pots anyway, wait until the trees are dormant, and wash away the soil around the roots, then prune them until only straight taproots remain before planting out. In fact I was told to do this by nurserymen to ensure best results with deep paper grown pots as well. But usually the issues arent great enough to warrant it if they are first year trees.


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## calabash (Dec 14, 2009)

45n5 said:


> i'm gonna have to get creative
> 
> 
> 
> ...


could you use empty paper towel or toilet paper rolls?


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

calabash said:


> could you use empty paper towel or toilet paper rolls?


toilet paper rolls wouldnt give you the depth that is ideal, and paper towel rolls are a bit more narrow then the paper pots Ive seen, but that should be just fine actually. 

ETA You could use several toilet rolls together perhaps. cut slices in the bottom of one and one flap in the next out. So those could work to...


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

calabash said:


> could you use empty paper towel or toilet paper rolls?


Absolutely! Such paper tubes would be perfect for such a project if one could accumulate enough of them a short time. We're dealing with merely starting trees here, not stockpiling them for nursery stock where they may remain unsold for months or years. These will probably be no more than 4 or 5 months in their starting medium before being set out. That will include germination time and none will be beyond the 3 or 4 leaf stage. Also not dealing with species which initially put down a long taproot such as nut trees. 

Martin


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## Randy Rooster (Dec 14, 2004)

Most states offer very inexpensive seedlings thrugh their state forestry service - Ive bought from both Virginia and NC forest seedlings and the quality is always top notch and they are quite inexpensive- it hardly seems worth the time and work to start your own. Here is the one for Kentucky

State Nurseries and Tree Seedlings | State Nurseries and Tree Seedlings


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## 45n5 (Jun 9, 2008)

*soil blocks look too cool.* i searched the internet but can't find any info on making a soil block the size for a tree, they all are for vegetables


I've ordered from state nurseries before and they offer a great service but even they get expensive for instance

$38 per 100 seedlings
$15 per 100 seedlings SHIPPING

$53 per 100 seedlings total


if I want 500 seedlings that is over $250 dollars which is still pretty expensive for me

now with soil blocks (free if I can make a diy block maker) and free seeds (plucked from the trees over the last couple months) then the whole thing will cost me almost nothing

thanks for the advice ya'll




mark


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Yeah there are all sorts of DIY soil block info sites out there. It sounds like a great way to go for all kinds of veggies. If the blocks were at least 3+ inches high, I would think they should work well for getting the tree seedlings started.

Please let us know if you give it a shot!


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## Randy Rooster (Dec 14, 2004)

45n5 said:


> *soil blocks look too cool.* i searched the internet but can't find any info on making a soil block the size for a tree, they all are for vegetables
> 
> 
> I've ordered from state nurseries before and they offer a great service but even they get expensive for instance
> ...


In NC you can eliminate the shipping cost if you have them shipped to your closest local forest service office and pick them up there - - 38 cents for a healthy 1 or 2 year old tree sounds like a bargain to me.


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## frankva (May 21, 2009)

Agree. 0.53 isn't shabby. But he has seeds, can't say I blame him for wanting to go that route.

I am glad I am not the one watering them. Even bundled in big pots.

I'd be interested in germination rates.


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## farmer9989 (Apr 22, 2008)

take a bag of potting soil lay it down on side flat draw a grid of about 2 in square poke holes and plant .put couple holes in bottom for drainage .when ready cut off bag and separate.best and easy cheep.


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## How Do I (Feb 11, 2008)

We start out all of our tree seedlings in one gallon trade pots. Fill with peat/perlite mix to the brim. Same with cuttings. First year after they go dormant they go into nursery beds. I wouldn't start until spring, but that is just me. If you don't seed too dense, your trees will have plenty of room the first year. Treat your nursery beds similar to a garden bed,. Line them out, hoe, fertilize and shouldn't be any reasons to lose any.


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