# Work horses



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

When you're looking for a work horse, it helps if they have a bit of a shorter, more upright pastern. You shouldn't trot this kind of horse all day on the pavement, as the more upright pastern doesn't have as much shock absorbency as does a more laid one. But for field work, a slightly more upright pastern is helpful.

Similarly, the hoof should also be a little more upright. Not clubby, exactly, but if the hoof wall is somewhat slanting, it makes it difficult for the horse to get up on his toes and dig in for the pull.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

I have seen some pasterns that were too short..... so short that there almost wasn't a pastern.

I like to trim for a slightly greater than 45 degree angle on the front pasterns keeping the angle on the hoof wall parallel to the angle of the pastern.

..... but I no longer own work horses but it is good to reminisce


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Another thing to look for in a work horse is a certain type of front. The horse needs a good, broad chest - they work by throwing their chest into the collar or breaststrap.
When you look at a horse from the front, its front legs should come straight down and be nice and wideset (but not out at the elbows). 
Any kind of crookedness when you look at the legs from the front (toes in or out, cannons slightly offset, a wider stance at the hoof than the shoulder) and the horse is going to break down under harness work.

You also want to look at how the neck ties on to the chest. That breaststrap or collar has to go right there, and a low-set neck might be highly desired for a QH trail class, but for a workhorse, now you have the harness wanting to go right where the windpipe is. Even if the horse looks alright with a light load, when he drops his head, you don't want the harness to interfere with his wind or with his motion and with the wrong build, you're going to have to keep a constant eye on that.

Any horse when pulling is going to want to drop his head and lean his shoulders into the work. Without a broad, flat chest with good depth he can't throw his weight against the harness properly. The horse has to work harder than if he could just put his full weight into it, and so experiences much more strain on his entire body. 

Of course a good mind is a very necessary thing for a work horse, but the best mind in the world won't help anyone if the body breaks down under the work. Steven Hawking is brilliant, but I don't want him playing on my football team.
Likewise, I might have a horse or pony I adore, but if they're not built for the job I want them to do, I need to find them a different job, and me a horse that's built for the work I need from them.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

A neck collar will move with the neck and adapts to the horse. It will work with a horse whose neck ties in low or high, and will work if the horse drops his head to lean into the collar for a hard pull. A breastcollar will not. The Suffolk Punch often has a neck that is tied in low but it was "bred for the furrow".

The neck collar is built to have relief in the windpipe. If fitted correctly, the weight is borne by the shoulder and the windpipe is left free. If the horse is allowed to drop his head too far during a hard pull, he can eventually choke himself out. There was a type of collar called called a pipe throat that had a rigid metal rim at the throat of the collar that formed a dip to give additional relief for the windpipe during just such an occasion. They don't make them here any more, however, which is too bad.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

The way a horse uses himself in harness is by pushing his shoulders against the traces... not quite his chest. During a particularly hard pull, he will be up on his toes, toes dug in and clawing at the earth.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Another good illustration of maximum exertion in harness.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

jennigrey said:


> A neck collar will move with the neck and adapts to the horse. It will work with a horse whose neck ties in low or high, and will work if the horse drops his head to lean into the collar for a hard pull. A breastcollar will not. The Suffolk Punch often has a neck that is tied in low but it was "bred for the furrow".
> 
> The neck collar is built to have relief in the windpipe. If fitted correctly, the weight is borne by the shoulder and the windpipe is left free. If the horse is allowed to drop his head too far during a hard pull, he can eventually choke himself out. There was a type of collar called called a pipe throat that had a rigid metal rim at the throat of the collar that formed a dip to give additional relief for the windpipe during just such an occasion. They don't make them here any more, however, which is too bad.


That's why a collar is used instead of just a breast plate, correct? A harness horse isn't pulling heavy loads so a driving harness uses a plate rather than a collar?


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Yep. A properly-fitted work neck collar:

- distributes the contact area of the pull across more square inches than most breastcollars (I have seen very wide breastcollars of perhaps 5" in width - mostly in 3rd-world subsistence farming situations - to try to make up for the inherent deficiencies of the breastcollar) 

- transfers the pressure to the most appropriate structures: the shoulders rather than the chest/windpipe

- maintains a rigid shape so as not to collapse inward and hamper the free movement of the shoulders (Horses do not have a collarbone to keep the forelegs spaced apart!)

- allows for conformational differences while still obtaining maximum efficiency to the extent of a horse's individual abilities


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Buggy harnesses are for light, wheeled loads. There is very little resistance in a buggy when compared to the dead weight of a plow or a harrow. A buggy harness may have a breastcollar or a driving/buggy collar. A driving/buggy collar differs from a work/farm collar in a few ways:

- a buggy collar does not have as wide a surface area as a work collar
- a work collar is built more robustly than a buggy collar - both in the grade of leather used and also in the stuffing - to help it hold up under the greater force exerted in field work versus traveling down the road with a buggy or cart
- a buggy collar is used with buggy hames, which are thin, so the hame groove on a buggy collar is thin as well. Putting fat tubular farm hames on a buggy collar can be a challenge to get a good secure fit.

The greater the force exerted, the more that the collar will flatten and expand. The metal hames will restrict the expansion to some degree but the face of the collar (the side of the collar that sits against the horse) will still flatten on the horse and make more contact than when the collar is not under load. Greater contact area equals less pressure per square inch of horse hide. Think of wide, padded shoulder straps on a hiking pack versus a thin cord or even decorative chain on a ladies evening handbag. 

Buggy collars will not hold up under working conditions. They tend to crush at the shoulder or tear out at the seams.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

jennigrey said:


> Buggy harnesses are for light, wheeled loads. There is very little resistance in a buggy when compared to the dead weight of a plow or a harrow. A buggy harness may have a breastcollar or a driving/buggy collar. A driving/buggy collar differs from a work/farm collar in a few ways:
> 
> - a buggy collar does not have as wide a surface area as a work collar
> - a work collar is built more robustly than a buggy collar - both in the grade of leather used and also in the stuffing - to help it hold up under the greater force exerted in field work versus traveling down the road with a buggy or cart
> ...


I don't know much about work horses, or driving for that matter, and googled "buggy collar" and found this pic:










I never knew there were driving harnesses with collars. Learned something new today.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

True, in a well-fitted collar, it is the shoulder and not the chest that does the pushing.
But have you ever tried to fit a collar properly to a narrow-chested horse, especially a "keel chested" one? It's next to impossible. And sadly, it is a very common flaw in ponies, particularly.

There is a pony out in my pasture right now who's a narrow little fellow and I'd have to get a collar custom made for him if I wanted a proper fit - the collar would cost more than the pony is worth! And likely wouldn't fit another pony.
A well fitted collar moves with the horse well - and most collars are made for a good, broad beast. So unless you're going to spend the money to get one custom made, then get a horse or pony of the type that collars are meant to fit, or else they will not have contact with their shoulders.
I see far too many small horses, ponies and donkeys with broken wind pipes and white or even hairless scars because collars just aren't made to fit them.

Sadly, especially with smaller horses and ponies, because it is difficult to find collars made for the smaller equines they generally end up with a collar that is not a perfect fit, or, far, _far_ more often, a much heavier load than their breaststrap harness (cheap and easy to find for the little guys) is meant for.

Both of your pictures fully illustrate what I was saying about the importance of good, straight, well-set front legs (another common pony flaw) You can really see just what a strain the horse is putting on his front legs and not just the back ones. As you said "Up on the toe and clawing into the earth" - any conformational flaw in the front legs is put under tremendous strain.

Because bad fronts are so very common in ponies, I wanted to mention it, because ponies can be_ very _useful animals to have around. You might as well feed one that can work to maximum potential as feed one that will fall apart under the strain and make folks believe ponies are useless.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

This is true for all draft animals btw - I look for goats with good strong fronts, and I'm trying to find a maker of collar style goat harness. My buck works more than 5 minutes a year and his sons sell for a much better price as wethers trained to cart than as dairy meat culls 
Small draft animals can be hugely useful.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Otter said:


> True, in a well-fitted collar, it is the shoulder and not the chest that does the pushing.
> But have you ever tried to fit a collar properly to a narrow-chested horse, especially a "keel chested" one? It's next to impossible. And sadly, it is a very common flaw in ponies, particularly.
> 
> There is a pony out in my pasture right now who's a narrow little fellow and I'd have to get a collar custom made for him if I wanted a proper fit - the collar would cost more than the pony is worth! And likely wouldn't fit another pony.
> ...


The only oddly-conformed horse I have ever tried to fit a neck collar to is the 12h Icelandic that is boarded at my place. He has narrow chest, a "nest" (neck kind of melts into his chest rather than tying into a well-defined spot) and a sharp keel. But the apex of his keel is below where the collar makes contact. A neck collar should be closely fitted. When the horse is "in draft" (actively pulling), there should be only just enough room for his windpipe. The throat (bottom, center) of the collar should only just touch his hide at the windpipe when he is pulling hard.

Another difference between buggy and work collars that I forgot to mention is the placement and distribution of the stuffing. Work collars have the bulk of the stuffing placed over the shoulders, with just enough stuffing at the throat to give the collar a form. Some work collars even go so far as to only have stuffing in the rim of the collar at the throat. These are called no-choke collars. Driving collars have a fair amount of stuffing through the entire throat of the collar.

If you have a pony with a sharp and high keel, maybe a no-choke work collar will alleviate this conformational flaw, as the stuffing will stand much higher over the shoulders than it does at the throat. It is MUCH harder to find this type of collar in pony sizes than it is to find a buggy collar in pony size, but there are a few places that make them. I think Shetlers might make them. 

The problem of directing owners toward tack that is appropriate in construction, design and fit is universal across all breeds and disciplines, however. I have seen many drafts with scars from ill-fitting harness or ill-use and there is plenty of good equipment to be had for the big fellows. Teaching people how to use that equipment and teaching them to care about fit is another matter.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Jennigrey - I thought this was a thread for what to look for in a work horse.
If you want to sink lots of money and effort into it, you can work a narrow horse with a bad front. You can also work one with long pasterns.

Do we really need a long discussion on proper corrective shoeing and supportive leg wraps - or can we just agree that horses that are built for the job you want them for don't break down like horses that aren't?

Would you advise someone to buy or breed a keel-chested horse for draft work? Because you can make something work, doesn't mean you should. We both know this, so why argue?

So, everyone - what else do you look for in the _ideal_ work horse?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

When a horse pulls, the hocks tend to bow out. So, you want a horse that tends to be a bit closer between the hocks and not bowed out.
When the rump muscle attaches closer to the hock, the horse will have more power. When the rump muscle attaches further up the leg above the hock, the horse is more likely to have more action, at the expense of power. 
No hoof, no horse. Learn what side bones are and ring bone and what it feels like.

Collar length is important so the horse can breath, but also so the point of draft is in the correct location when in draft. Horses have different width of neck. Collars are made in different widths. You must match the collar to the horse.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Otter said:


> Jennigrey - I thought this was a thread for what to look for in a work horse.
> If you want to sink lots of money and effort into it, you can work a narrow horse with a bad front. You can also work one with long pasterns.
> 
> Do we really need a long discussion on proper corrective shoeing and supportive leg wraps - or can we just agree that horses that are built for the job you want them for don't break down like horses that aren't?
> ...


I'm sorry you feel I was arguing. I was trying to help. Sometimes the ideal work horse is the one you already have standing in your pasture.

In the same vein, yet also not on topic, there's an Amish collar shop back east that will make you a goat collar. Their message phone number is 330-737-7960. You'd need to provide measurements, though... height and width both, so the proportions end up being correct. But the collar is only part of the problem - how would you fit hames to it?


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

I just re-read your previous post and saw that you weren't looking for a goat collar, but a harness. Do you already have a goat collar? If you've got a few basic leather-working tools, I would think it would be easier to pare down a pony or mini harness to fit a goat, than to find someone to make you a harness. Hole punches, #9 rivet set and copper rivets and burrs, maybe an end punch if you want the strap-ends to look nice.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Thanks! I will give them a call and price that.
If I had a collar, I could make the rest of the harness for it (I love leatherworking) as it's similar enough.

Normally, a goat harness comes all in one set. I've looked, but only ever found soft collar harnesses, like from this harness maker who's out of business. While I could make that out of nylon or leather, I know I don't have the skill to make a proper collar, that is an art.
Although I think that the soft collar harness is certainly better on the goat than a breaststrap harness if they're going to be pulling any real weight at all.

I've looked into paring down a mini-harness, but the measurements are so off, it's actually easier to start from scratch. A mini of the same height tends to be a much rounder creature than a goat 

Very true, that sometimes the best one is the one you're already feeding - that's why I work my buck. He's here, and I feel he's happier, better behaved and easier to handle if he has a job. The hard-to-harness wonky pony gets to pack stuff for me when I need it and will do some very light carting that he's physically suited for _when_ I find some harness that will fit him comfortably. 
We work on ground driving a lot and reminding him of everything he knows because his last owner measured height and got some harness that fit _other_ 11.2 ponies but draped on him all kinds of wrong. The wreck was spectacular but happily the only damage to the little guy was mental (and a big part of why I got him so cheap) and we're working through it.
He's a very good example of how if you're not going to get a horse suited for the work, you need to spend a good bit of time suiting the work and equipment for the horse!

If I had a picture of what was left of the rig he was pulling it would serve as a good warning to folks to know exactly what they're doing before they go to hitch a horse. Learning to fit harness is VERY important, especially if your animal is built in such a way as to be hard to fit. 
He is a little guy, small enough folks think they can outmuscle or physically control him - the shafts were snapped and the axle twisted up like The Hulk got mad at it. I still can't believe everyone - especially him - walked away from that. And it wasn't a training issue, it was a bad harness fit - he'll still break a sweat if even a hay string touches him where that not-right harness tightened up on him. Other than that, he is broke to death, you can drag stuff all around him, pack anything on him, pull things behind him and DD rides him all over. But 10 minutes with a poor harness fit and a year and a new home later you still can't hitch him.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Before my favorite wether died, I had been training him to drive. I figured that with the cloven hooves, goats must have stupendous traction. It is only their lack of weight (sandbags over the wheels) that keeps them from out-tractioning larger animals. I had notions of cultivating in the garden with one goat and scaled-down equipment. I set about finding a goat collar. I figured that my wether's neck shape was fairly similar to a donkey: tall and narrow. Then my wether died last summer and that was the end of that.

During my research, however, I amassed quite a collection of photos of goats in harness. 95% of them, of course, were breastcollar. But I do have a couple depicting neck collars. Mostly you can't really see what's going on.

Is this one a goat or a sheep? I have seen a web site that gives instructions on making this type of collar. It is essentially a wooden collar with leather padding on the horse-side.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Plowing.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Well isn't that something? I never knew a goat could wear a collar! nice goats by the way. I think that looks like a sheep pulling the sled. The collar almost looks like a tiny pony collar?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

We have a goat harness and cart that we bought for our big Nubian/Alpine wether. Used once. 

I really need to put those things on Craigslist.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

So, one of the types of collar that I was considering for Huckleberry was this type of wooden Swiss collar that consists of two wooden halves, shaped to fit the slat-sided neck of an Alpine wether, with a pad behind it. My plan was to take an old, worn-out deer-hair-stuffed horse collar pad, cut it down, and use leather and upholstery tacks to secure it to the back of the wooden collar.

If you scroll down about 1/4 of the way, they have an illustration of the wooden part of the collar.

http://www.nzdl.org/gsdlmod?e=d-000...=d&cl=CL3.22&d=HASH0164fc9b5f908e960d9fba6c.8


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Here's a sort of modern version of that crude collar.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

The collar and harness on these saanen look for all the world like a mini collar and harness. But it could just be a costume "for looks".


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Those Brabants are some good looking horses, aren't they?

I had seen that article and was playing with the idea of giving it a go. An interesting aside, if you ever need some fill or felt for padding, you can use an old harness or you can get an old pillowcase, stuff it with horse/deer/goat/dog hair till it makes a nice pillow, wash the heck out of it and then use it as a saddle pad for a few months. I hear some folks still prefer jockey saddles made that way.

That first Saanan is huge! That is a mini-harness. The other 2 are specialty goat harnesses - see the difference in collar shape? Goat driving has long tradition in some countries and equipment just for them is easier to find.
It's interesting, but you can see that even with goats - they have the same points that we spoke of in horses. All three of those Saanens are broad animals, with well set legs, short pasterns (a bit long on that middle one, but still good) and hocks that turn slightly in, well set necks.

So clearly, there are just certain conformation points that lend themselves to draft work.

Jennigrey, haypoint, you've both got more experience than I - we've talked about fitting the horse (or goat, lol) to the job - can either of you explain better than I can how to make sure that a collar or harness fits right?


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Otter said:


> That first Saanan is huge! That is a mini-harness. The other 2 are specialty goat harnesses - see the difference in collar shape?


I hadn't before, but now that you mention it... I guess I do. More of a rounded oval than a teardrop?

Although they are made in particular shapes, sizes and proportions, stuffed leather collars can be shaped and formed to some extent by the user. The hames will make a rigid frame into which the collar is pressed, and so restrict the final shape. If you got some buggy hames (very small ones) and bent them into a more oval shape, then made some blocking (the way they do for shaping bosals), you can alter the shape of a collar. I wonder if it would be enough to get a shape that would fit a goat.

I have a no-choke collar that is too big for my current bunch, so it is hung up in long term storage (I never sell a collar because if you do, sure enough you'll need it the next day!). Because the stuffing does not carry through the throat of the collar, I have it well-blocked to keep its shape.

I usually have to block and shape any new collar for my horses. Seldom does it fit right when it is new. I find that I usually have to make it a bit wider, which uses up some length. So it is something I have to take into consideration when buying a new collar. Yes, it might be 23" long from the collar shop but when I block it out that extra 1" in width, suddenly the 23 is a 22.

If I have the time, gentle use - such as a few trips of 10 miles each on the road with a wagon - will gently shape the collar without hurting the horse in the meanwhile. But spring plowing or harrowing or the wagon train are absolutely not the time or place to break in a new collar unless you don't mind risking some sore shoulders.

Collar fit is an art! In comparison, harness fit is easier to quantify.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

I have probably 5x the number of collars that I do animals to wear them. Admittedly, this is partially due to the fact that I help people fit their horses to collars, as a sort of a public service. But even if I didn't, I would still have a library of at LEAST two and probably three collars for each of my animals. This is because my animals change shape throughout the year and I am very particular about collar fit. I don't much care for adjustable collars, though lately I have been brought to see that not all adjustable collars were created equal. Some are less bad than others.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

jennigrey said:


> Another good illustration of maximum exertion in harness.


Notice the angle that the tug is making where it attaches to the hame. This angle should be close to 90 degrees (and it is)


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Johnny Dolittle said:


> Notice the angle that the tug is making where it attaches to the hame. This angle should be close to 90 degrees (and it is)


Yep - and, in contrast, the extremely high point of attachment (where the traces attach to the item being pulled) on the horse in the black-and-white photo makes *his* angle of draft sub-optimal. An acute angle between his hames and his traces. They are not getting the most from that horse. I think the story behind that photo is that he is a blind horse working in a mine, pulling ore carts or something on a track. Pretty crummy life.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

jennigrey said:


> The way a horse uses himself in harness is by pushing his shoulders against the traces... not quite his chest. During a particularly hard pull, he will be up on his toes, toes dug in and clawing at the earth.


In this situation notice the angle of the tug to the hame. The point of draft is high making the tug almost parallel to the ground. In this situation the collar will tend to slide up on the horses shoulders and will tend to cut off air and choke the horse. Also a collar moving around on a horses shoulders will cause sores.

We can not see what the horse is pulling but might be something like a high wheeled cart.

I have seen horse loggers making high wheeled logging carts with the point of draft too high. They make these carts with a high axle so they can back over the end of large diameter logs. The mistake they make is to mount the double tree too high and the result is that the tugs are too parallel with the ground and the tug to hame angle is not close to 90 degrees.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> We have a goat harness and cart that we bought for our big Nubian/Alpine wether. Used once.
> 
> I really need to put those things on Craigslist.


Was it an ugly "once"?

I was at a tack sale last Sunday and there was a harness for sale. Draft-cross size. Tag said, "Used once for about an hour." My friend and I laughed that it must have been an unpleasant hour. Harness seemed in fine shape, though. Not a mark on it.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

jennigrey said:


> Was it an ugly "once"?
> 
> I was at a tack sale last Sunday and there was a harness for sale. Draft-cross size. Tag said, "Used once for about an hour." My friend and I laughed that it must have been an unpleasant hour. Harness seemed in fine shape, though. Not a mark on it.


Nope. Just a lazy goat and we never really got around to using it again. So it was an expensive "once".
We do have an ugly "lightly used" fjord harness and beautiful red cart. It's been sitting with a broken shaft for probably 7 years. 
We really need to get rid of some things.:grin:


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsJXfHx4ZAU[/ame]
Horse pull . Note the correct fit of collars


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