# Meningial Deer Worm..Brain worm! BEWARE!



## Mommyto5 (Feb 6, 2006)

Hi everyone!

I started a thread last night about our little doeling who seemed to have an injured leg. Well, this morning, I went to the barn to check on her and she was worse. She was dragging her rear leg (on the same side) and staggering. She would topple over when she tried to keep up with her mother and sister. I immediately thought of an article I read just this week while I was vacationing. It was in the July/August 2007 issue of Hobby Farms Magazine. There was a story about a lady who found one of her Alpacas staggering out in her pasture. The alpaca eventually had to be put down. The necropsy revealed that she had Meningial Worm, ak.k.a brain worm. Our doeling showed the signs that were listed in this article. When I took her to the vet today, she thinks that's exactly what it is. Unfortunately, a definitive diagnosis for brain worm can't be made until after death. So, we're just treating her and hoping and praying she gets better.

Here's how the worm works: it is carried by white tail deer, but causes them absolutely no harm. They "poop" out the larvae, and complete their life cycle in snails or slugs. Then, the snails or slugs are ingested by the deer again, and the cycle continues. However, if the snails or slugs are ingested by ruminants, the larvae travel to the spinal cord and brain, causing paralysis of the hind legs, and weakness of the limbs. The vet said she has seen goats respond to treatment, but depending on the damage, they may not return to 100%. It's a very serious condition, which can cause death, and I wouldn't have known anything about it if I hadn't read that article. It's also preventable with frequent worming. Wet pastures increase the risk of the worm, because of the snail and slug population in those areas. The vet said that babies are more susceptible to it, and that they need to be wormed more frequently. I WISH I had known all of this before now. That's why I'm passing this on! I hope it helps someone else in the future. 

I'll recheck my notes from the doctor and post treatment here when I get back from the pond.


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## greyhound girl (Nov 16, 2003)

I just finished treating my 5 yr.old wether for MW. He was treated very aggressively for 7 days - fortunately I caught it early enuf that it seems to be arrested. The biggest challenge is keeping them up and moving. It sounds like you caught your doe quickly also. How is your vet treating it? I've read some very interesting articles on prevention and treatment - if you're interested, I'll get you the websites.


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## Mommyto5 (Feb 6, 2006)

I would love the websites! Thank you so much!

The vet is treating her with Ivermectin for 10 days (gave her a double dose today) and another wormer (starts with a "p" I can't remember it right now.) She's also on Vitamin B12 & B Complex. I gave her Probios, just to keep her going. And, she's on Branamine (I think that's it). Obviously, the wormers are for the treatment of the parasite, and the others are just to give her a boost. She tested her stool and found Coccidia. So, I have to get ANOTHER wormer for that! Poor thing! I feel terrible that she's in such a state!

I have a question for you...did your goat get worse before he got better? I was just in the barn and our doeling seems worse. The vet said she would, but of course, I worry.


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## oberhaslikid (May 13, 2002)

I have a nubian doe that had Deer worm and I caught in time to save her but she is weak in the rear legs and can be knocked off guard easily.she keeps up with the herd and has kidded with tripletts this past spring.She will be here forever.


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## Mommyto5 (Feb 6, 2006)

Oberhaslikid: Thank you so much for that encouragment! (I love your signature line, by the way!!! How true is that!!)


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Amber had it 10 years ago, and she came back 100%, huge amounts of ivermectin injected, banamine to keep her from self mutilating, dexamethazone to stop the swelling in the spinal cord, and supportive therapy because by the time I figured out I had no idea what was wrong she was down. My vet diagnosed her with protozoal mialitis the equine form of this but her treatment was right on. 

Pi my 2 year old herd sire came down with this 6 weeks ago, I knew right away what was wrong, he was treated exactly the same, bred a doe...albeit he is still showing some neuro problems, breeding with his legs braced really far apart, September 1st. Using Panacur along with the Ivermectin is fine, but we opted for the Ivermectin Plus.

Amber went on to do well at shows, unless she walked too fast or ran could you tell that there was something wrong with her gait.

I am getting a donkey for my woods pasture, the two goats who have had this both were in the same pen 10 years apart, and it's the pen we see deer in. My dogs, rhodesian ridgebacks don't see the deer as a threat so they don't chase them anymore.

Hope you have the same good ending to your story. Make sure whoever you do listen to with this problem is giving you advice from having it because there are some crazy guessing going on out there! Vicki


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

There is quite a bit of info about meningial worm issues/treatment/support on llama sites. Folks with llamas and deer seem to have been routinely worming with dectomax (sp?) but recent findings are showing this may not be a good protocol.


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## Mommyto5 (Feb 6, 2006)

Vicki,
We are using the Ivermectin, but the vet said she could take it orally or injected. So, I was giving it orally. Does it make a difference?? I was just trying to make things a little easier on her since she gets a few injections a couple times a day. 

She's also on the Panacur and Banamine.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

My vet said that oral does not work at all!!!!!!!!!!! Only injection. We inject all of our Llamas several times per summer. They have no resistance to this worm at all whereas our sheep and goats do have some resistance.


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## ChickenMom (Sep 27, 2005)

I've been thinking of fencing some woods in that are behind my pastures. Maybe that's not such a good idea. Are these worms in all states?


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## greyhound girl (Nov 16, 2003)

My wether did get worse before he got better - but only for a day or two. He received heavy doses of Panacur and Ivermectin for two days - then heavy doses of Panacur and Banamine for 5 more days. Orally for the P and injectin for the B. My vet told me it would be a month before I saw improvement but he is probably 85% better and it's only been a week and a half since the end of treatment. Here's the websites: tennesseemeatgoats.com.; shagbarkridge.com/info/menin. There's one other one - I'll look it up and post it later. I also had a doe that had it when she was a baby - I got her after the fact. She could barely walk at first - had been down for some time. But she recovered - not totally, could never have carried a baby. But she lived 4 more years. She had a reoccurrance every year - apparently the larvae had never been totally killed or else her immunity level was so compromised that she couldn't fend them off anymore. Or . . . she had become "immune" to the wormers.


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## greyhound girl (Nov 16, 2003)

Ok - the other website I thought was informational is: llamapaedia.com. I don't like their treatment but the rest is good. I have a friend who is trying the protein block with the wormer in it. So far, so good. It's very important to keep your little doeling's spirits up - help her up and get her out to look around and enjoy the sunshine. My wether weighs about 200# and it was no easy feat - but I believe it really kept him going.


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## DocM (Oct 18, 2006)

I can't find any info (already searched). Do blacktail deer carry this? We have no standard whitetails around here (Oregon Coast Range). There is a subspecies of whitetail called Columbia Whitetail pretty close. Sometimes they cross with blacktails. Is it "breed" specific, since deer can interbreed (just normally don't)? The blacktails do carry wasting disease, and there is some concern that local goats can pick it up, although so far, no confirmed cases. I've personally seen the smaller blacktails go over my neighbor's 8' buffalo fencing, so the bigger whitetails wouldn't have any problem. My donkey ignores the deer we see in the pasture. 

What about elk? Do they carry it? Our local elk population is huge.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

It's white tail deer here.

We injected it because injected it speeds through the system faster, it is the only difference in using ivermectin orally or injected, there is no difference. Using it orally simply slows down the amount of time it is in the system so it can work more thoroughly which is essential for stomach worms, but for this, which is really a parasite, like lice and mites, you want to intially use it injected, but then move orally. And you can now movet subq and back again if you want.

Using the banamine 1cc per 100 pounds and we did it twice aday when Amber was down because she had started to chew on herself, and the dexamethazone at 1cc per 100 pounds once aday, then after 3 days backing them both down by half for 3 more days was key in the quick recovery. When an animal of mine goes down if there isn't recovery nearing 100% I opt for putting them down...now I don't go crazy with dosages because nothing is worse than recovery and then death from the liver failure you caused by overdosing..but I do want recovery. No way would a doe live here who can not kid and milk, that isn't recovery for my farm.

Goat Medicine talked about this and simply said that using Ivermectin as prevention simply can't work because until the worm has imbedded in the spinal cord that Ivermectin or any other drug is not able to kill it...from ingestion to going through the bloodbrain barrier.

We do know that it is a weekness in this blood brain barrier (some sort of stress or illness) that allows this to happen in some goats, it is not about immunity. The only wormer that crosses the blood brain barrier is ivermectin, and it's why I take with a huge grain of salt what that first TMG site says. It's also why I don't use Ivermectin in goatlings who do not have a mature blood brain area as their routine stomach worming. 

No idea about Elk sorry. Pretty sure it is species specific.

2 cases in 21 years, isn't enough for me not to use my woods  But I am going to start fecal testing Ivermectin for use in the goats in this pen, there are several forms that I haven't used before switching to Cydectin. But for me it's a donkey again. Vicki


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## lgslgs (May 30, 2005)

DocM said:


> I can't find any info (already searched). Do blacktail deer carry this? We have no standard whitetails around here (Oregon Coast Range). There is a subspecies of whitetail called Columbia Whitetail pretty close. Sometimes they cross with blacktails. Is it "breed" specific, since deer can interbreed (just normally don't)? The blacktails do carry wasting disease, and there is some concern that local goats can pick it up, although so far, no confirmed cases. I've personally seen the smaller blacktails go over my neighbor's 8' buffalo fencing, so the bigger whitetails wouldn't have any problem. My donkey ignores the deer we see in the pasture.
> 
> What about elk? Do they carry it? Our local elk population is huge.


Not sure about elk or blacktails as carriers, but there are confirmed cases of the actual disease in moose and 2 confirmed cases in cattle. And of course it hits camelids and goats hard.

Outbreaks occur in areas and at times that favor the presence of slugs. 

We had a nasty regional outbreak in early 2005. The vet has seen fewer cases of it since then - but we've also had two years of drought. 

Deer proof fences won't protect your livestock. Snails and slugs can still migrate into your land and get nibbled up off of tasty browse.

It's good to see others having success getting their goats to recover from the disease. At our place, we feel better prepared to catch it early and we've seen the treatment work. It has taken our survivors almost two years to regain full vigor - but I'm happy to report that they are both back to full muscle strength, mass, and attitude.

One other thing to watch for with deer worm is the potential for difficult birthing. During the bad outbreak year a lot of local farms had goats with unusually tough deliveries. In some cases that was probably actually due to early deer worm and back leg lameness and other deerworm symptoms showed later. 

Finally - keep an eye on hoof wear and foot carriage if you are in a potential deerworm region. As the muscles weaken the goats may rotate their legs inwards or outwards to compensate and you might see odd hoof wear patterns or a rotated stance when you have them on firm level ground.

For the original poster - I hope you are seeing improvements from the treatment. Keep us informed how your little doeling is doing.

Lynda


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