# Consensus - Best LGD that won't prey on my flock



## Kansas2014 (Jan 14, 2014)

I spent some time reading this thread the other night. It seemed to me that opinions were quite varied as to which breed is best for guarding and won't prey on chickens, goats, etc. Although my dog will be mostly confined to a 6ft chain link fenced back yard, the possibility of him having the run of the place from time to time is a consideration. Can I get a GS pup and be certain that with proper exposure and introduction to my chickens and goats that the prey instinct can be tempered or overcome completely? If a GS isn't the best guard dog to be around the other animals which one is? I have an 11 yr old w autism and another child w cerebral palsey who visits often. I need a safe dog for them as well. Basically I'm wanting a LGD that will protect the kids, my property, and leave small stock alone. Thanks for your knowledge and experience in advance.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

What is a GS? A german shepherd? They are not livestock guardian dogs, LGD's live with their flock 24/7. Sounds like you want a all around farm dog and those come from training, not buying a certain breed. There is no best breed, everyone will tell you their favorite breed. Safe dogs come from training, I have had pitbulls, American bulldogs, Rottweiler, labs, collies, and numerous mutts that could all fit that description. It's not clear how much time you plan on interacting with the dog but if its left outside in the backyard and you spend 15-20 minutes a day with it chances are its probably going to be a nightmare. If you spend a lot of time with it and bring it around the animals and teach it they are not okay to chase and teach it manners so it doesn't jump up on them or play bite, the kids it will be fine.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Yes all dogs need to be transitioned to stock. Also Protection (more than watch dogging and barking but attacking?) means a little higher prey drive.
My giant schnauzer didnt meet stock til she was 3 years old and it took us 6 months and 8 chickens (some killed as tiny chicks, we were learning too- like dont leave them outside in a cardboard box, duh so it wasnt entirely her fault)... but she hasnt killed any stock in TWO years, although she still hunts rats and is an excellent guard against strangers (she loves kids)... I would say - as a farm family pet/ protection you could use a giant schnauzer but you would have to do basic obedience work and training and they are handler dependent, like a GS they demand their handler, and for them to work them.


For ease though I would reccommend a male Bernese Mt dog, thats what they were bred for- farm dogs and they are great! My 130# male is quite intimidating and surprising (or guess notso much thats what they were bred for originally)-- territorial - he walks the property line and protects it-- his bark is resounding ... and Zero prey drive. Never killed anything or harassed anything in his life ... AND so trustworthy and gentle with kids. 
He doesnt like strangers either. and wont settle just barks at them. 
but attack, I doubt it.

SO thats a bit of feedback,
hope it helps....


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Well, if you've cruised these forums you've no doubt heard me mention my GS (German Shepherd). You've also heard me mention my "mix" (shepherd, chow, lab) and my Karakachan, the latter being the LGD.

Others are absolutely correct in that what you "train" is what you'll get! If I were in your shoes, I would not hesitate to get a German Shepherd (taken immediately upon being weaned) and keep it in the house "most" of the time. (Dogs raised in the house are more turned into what that specific family expect of it, what it is permitted to do and not to do as well as the "words" and "gestures" each family member uses to talk to it.) The more time you (and your children) spend with whatever dog you get, the better that dog will know what you want him/her to do. 

You do not need an LGD if most of that dog's duties will be to guard humans. Training will teach any dog you choose NOT TO BOTHER YOUR FARM ANIMALS/FOWL.

Take a look at the GS I trained from a pup. She spent much time in the house while young. She was watched closely when she was outdoors and trained there as well. She was also an "alpha", which made training more complicated...more like training an LGD. But the results? Judge for yourself! (She would even try to catch "flying" predators.)


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I say Anatolian/Pyrenees mix. It's it's up to me, I'm never getting anything other than that.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

You need a pet that is easily trained. My nephew is autistic. They have a hard headed medium sized mix, two cats, a couple of rats.

I'd go with a 'companion" bred dog. A poodle, probably standard, an old fashioned rough coated collie, Am Staff. Keep the dog as a pet, but train it to leave the chickens, etc. alone. Give him outside time, but his first job should be your child's pet.


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## Kansas2014 (Jan 14, 2014)

Thanks for your replies! Lot's of good experience and advice here. 

motdaugrnds, yes I did read about your dogs. Wonderful companions. I'm not new to being a dog owner but I am new to the idea of having a dog that is large enough to put someone ( hopefully not my kids or myself! ) on the ground. 

Im wanting mostly to train my dog to alert me to trouble and if need be, take down a threat, all the while leaving my stock alone and being sweet to the kids. There are many good breeds to choose from and I think everyone has their favorite. I know I can train efficiently. It's a matter of commiting to the time required and feeling confident in my choice. 

Again, thanks to those who replied. Much appreciated.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

No big surprise to any here, I'm a Pyr lover.
My two are amazingly wonderful with my grandson, they tolerate anybody actually, as long as we preform the introductions. Love all children instantly, it's adults we have to introduce.
They do require training, but any dog does.
If I had to do it over, I'd get Pyr's and never regret it.


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## Kansas2014 (Jan 14, 2014)

Hi hercsmama. I see alot of pyr lovers here. I can honestly say ive never so much as laid eyes on one, not in person anyway. I'm thinking initial costs could get up there. I think I need to keep an eye out at the shelters and rescues in town. I've seen plenty if "farm dogs" advertised in various papers and on the usual sites but they're not pups and they already have behavior problems. ( wanting to run and be gone for days on end, clearing fences, killing stock ) 

The best companion animal pet I ever had was a little pound puppy. A pom/terrier mix, she lived to be 19 years old. 

I think my biggest challenge here is going to be that I've never owned a large breed. I have friends who have mastiffs, shepherds, rotties, danes and dobies. Ive always admired the bond and that feeling that this dog would loyally guard and protect under any circumstance.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

Large breeds, and especially the giant breeds, as I believe most all true LGD's are classified, can be a handful, if not properly trained. 
Mind you, Pyrs do like to wander, especially if they don't have a job, and a flock that they are bonded to.
Very good fencing is really the first thing you need to invest in, before you get really any outside type dog,.
Here are my two, I'm sure everyone here is sick of looking at them by now! LOL!
Maggie is the petite one, with what they call Badger markings( darker ears, and a very light mask), Murphy is her brother.
I see you are in Kansas, you need to look for a working Goat or Sheep ranch, that uses Pyrs, or other LGD's, and has a breeding female.
Getting your dogs from actual working stock, makes the training alot easier.
It's a wonderful thing to get a dog from a rescue, but if you've never trained a working LGD, I seriously do not recommend it. 
Get puppies from working parents, and your life will be exponentially easier. LOL!:goodjob:


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

motdaugrnds said:


> Well, if you've cruised these forums you've no doubt heard me mention my GS (German Shepherd). You've also heard me mention my "mix" (shepherd, chow, lab) and my Karakachan, the latter being the LGD.


Such a lovely girl


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I'm in KS, and we will be breeding our dogs sometime within a year. They will be Anatolian, with 1/8th of pyrenees. How soon are you looking to get one? I can't guarantee when she will go into heat at all.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Oh, and they are both working together and guarding goats, chickens, kids, and the family.  They grew up with sheep and our other pet dogs, but will chase off an outsider.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

I have a German Shepherd & a German Shepherd/Mastiff cross. Both are wonderful with all of the animals & humans. Neither would hurt a fly, but they are intimidating to anyone that doesn't know them. They also alert me when someone is here, unless it is someone that stops often & they know is ok. My Chihuahua in the house is more vicious & would probably do harm to someone before they would!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

My two dogs are not happy with anyone but 'their' people, or the ones we are with. If we introduce someone to them, first, then they don't care and will act as sweet as can be. But they can be wary of strangers.


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## Kansas2014 (Jan 14, 2014)

GraceAlice said:


> I'm in KS, and we will be breeding our dogs sometime within a year. They will be Anatolian, with 1/8th of pyrenees. How soon are you looking to get one? I can't guarantee when she will go into heat at all.


Hi GraceAlice,

I suppose the sooner the better as I figure it's only a matter of time before we have a serious incident here. ( as if losing 5 hens and a rooster wasn't enough ) Can I ask what part of the state you are in?


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Hmmm... Well I can't say when she will go into heat because I am completely unsure of that.

I'm by Wichita.


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## Kansas2014 (Jan 14, 2014)

GraceAlice said:


> Hmmm... Well I can't say when she will go into heat because I am completely unsure of that.
> 
> I'm by Wichita.


Really!! So am I! West of the city, Cheney Lake area. Do let me know when you have an impending arrival of pups. I am going to do some Googling on the breed.


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## Kansas2014 (Jan 14, 2014)

http://m.dogbreedinfo.com/?url=http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/a/anatolianpyrenees.htm#2556 

They look so sweet and gentle. Not at all imposing to a large dog newbie like myself. 

Yes please keep me in the loop re your next litter. Thank you.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Our male is probably one of the sweetest, calmest dogs you could ever meet... I love his SO much. Annie is a little more hyper but I think once she has puppies she will calm down quite a bit. Her big problem is jumping, but like I said, that was a training fault and when she has a litter it should calm her down. They both would NEVER hurt us, absolutely never! They are big lovebugs but protect the animals as needed. Here are some pictures of them as puppies and then some recent ones. Annie is pure and registered Anatolian, Silas is the anatolian/pyrenees mix(basically the fluffier one. lol). As long as they grow up around chickens, they should be fine. Our puppies will be living on the farm and will already be introduced to everything we have by the time you would get one. Cats, chickens, ducks, guineas, and goats.


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## Kansas2014 (Jan 14, 2014)

Grace, they're great looking dogs! They look happy and friendly, which is what i want dince i have an 11 yr old who needs to feel safe with our animals. She's autistic but high functioning - wonderful with all of our pets and stock except for our mini horse. He has nipped at her and scared her. I really need to get him broke....his attitude is not good. ( i have help on the way for that ) Now you've got me excited to get a pup....I hope it's soon! I've been reading more about the breed and I really haven't come across anything negative. It's a good breed mix for exactly what I'm needing in a farm dog - family friendly, loyal, willing to chase off intruders, a good alerter. 

I'm so glad I posted this thread.


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## Kansas2014 (Jan 14, 2014)

motdaugrnds said:


> Well, if you've cruised these forums you've no doubt heard me mention my GS (German Shepherd). You've also heard me mention my "mix" (shepherd, chow, lab) and my Karakachan, the latter being the LGD.
> 
> Others are absolutely correct in that what you "train" is what you'll get! If I were in your shoes, I would not hesitate to get a German Shepherd (taken immediately upon being weaned) and keep it in the house "most" of the time. (Dogs raised in the house are more turned into what that specific family expect of it, what it is permitted to do and not to do as well as the "words" and "gestures" each family member uses to talk to it.) The more time you (and your children) spend with whatever dog you get, the better that dog will know what you want him/her to do.
> 
> ...


Motdaugrnds, all of the pics didnt load for me the other day but I see them now. You have some amazing dogs there! I have an inside dog, a small to medium size wire haired terrier mix. I got her 9 years before we moved out here so she has not been raised around any kind of stock or other animals besides my two house cats. She does fine w the goats and horse but I guarantee you, she would have a chicken's neck broke in no time!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Well I will let you know! It is a great mix. I also think Annie is more highstrung because she's a purebred Anatolian, I'm expecting their puppies to be calm like their daddy. I am really hoping she'll go into heat around 2 years. We plan to get them HIP tested before we breed them. She is too young to have puppies at the moment, IMO. So I guess it's a wait and see sort of thing!


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

I am another in the Wichita area searching for the right LGD breed for me. I have 3 friends with Great Pyrenees and I have ruled them out for the following reasons.

1. Barking. My 3 friends all report that their GP's bark non-stop all night. When I mentioned that I wouldn't care to listen to a dog bark all night, they told me that is how LGD's work and that they like listening to them bark because it means they are keeping predators at bay. So for years my understanding of LGD's consisted of dogs that bark all night. I have since learned that while GP's bark, not all LGD breeds do, so that is the first reason I ruled out GP's.

2. Roaming. GP's like to roam several hundred acres and we have only 10. From what I have heard they will jump fences as high as 6' high to get out and roam a greater area. Our fences are 4' high so I need a breed that will be contained to our property by 4' high fences. One of my friends put in invisible fence and trained her GP's to that. I don't care for that option as not all dogs can be trained to invisible fence, plus while it keeps the dogs in, it doesn't keep other dogs or predators out. Not to mention that that friend is on 5 acres and keeps the dogs on 1-2. Our pasture for our sheep and goats is 7 acres and it would be a small fortune to do invisible fence for all of it. Another friend allows her dogs to roam all over the neighborhood. I don't find that responsible and would not want my LGD's doing so. The third allowed hers to roam until one of them was shot last year. Then she put in solid fencing and her GP's do seem to stay in now.

So much of what we read is based on one person's experience and as soon as one person says one thing, someone else will jump in to refute it, which makes it difficult to form a true impression. So much comes down to perspective. What one person calls "barking very little" might be what another person calls "barking a lot" LOL.

I've never been around Anatolians but I've read that they also like to roam a large area, so I am also leaning away from them.

I've heard mostly good things about Maremma's and several people have said they are good about staying on their property so I like the sound of them for being not inclined to roam. On the other hand, I think they tend to bark a lot too.

Karakachans so far are on my short list. Unfortunately so few people have them that finding out what they are like from multiple sources is difficult. From what I've heard so far though, they don't bark unnecessarily and they are not inclined to roam.

Another I am considering is a Bernese Mountain Dog. I've heard they are a good all-round farm dog, don't roam and don't bark too much. On the other hand, I'm not sure how they do at predator control - I need to research that more.


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## Eagle1 (Jun 1, 2012)

Many dogs will roam if bored. I have a GP (Chloe) and Karakachan/GP mix (Modi). Neither has EVER tried to escape from a four foot fence. Modi head is above the fence but they stay put. We walk off lead in the woods daily with no escapes. They are bonded to us and our other animals. Now if there are coyotes or a bobcat within a 1/4 mile of the property they'll remove IF they turned loose. May take an hour but they'll be back once all 100 acres and normal trails have been deemed safe for all. 

On the other hand I had a boxer/golden mix that escaped every fence, chain, electric I ever tried right up the year he died. Now he seldom went further than the front yard but stay put without a human NEVER.... best dog ever, nothing got hurt that belonged to him.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Moboiku said:


> I am another in the Wichita area searching for the right LGD breed for me. I have 3 friends with Great Pyrenees and I have ruled them out for the following reasons.
> 
> 1. Barking. My 3 friends all report that their GP's bark non-stop all night. When I mentioned that I wouldn't care to listen to a dog bark all night, they told me that is how LGD's work and that they like listening to them bark because it means they are keeping predators at bay. So for years my understanding of LGD's consisted of dogs that bark all night. I have since learned that while GP's bark, not all LGD breeds do, so that is the first reason I ruled out GP's.
> 
> ...


Just wanted to say we LOVE our Bernese MT dog, very very protective a good watch dog (not attack dog) and is best of our pack of 3 at keeping strangers (even dogs, which the other 2 want to give the benefit if the doubt)..... His bark is deep and he doesnt stray (we did have him neutered). He absolutely does not trust strangers.
However his one drawback is I am not sure about his propensity for killing thigs, but thats what I have the Pyr- Anatolian (only 9months old) and giant schnauzer for... None of my dogs stray by the way, and one of our corners is not actually fenced in at all...

PS our LGD doesnt bark "all night" but only when he hears something, he sorta barks it into submission, then subsides, so this boils down to afew times a night for short periods, and some nights none, or only once ....


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