# Grunge? Help!



## MollyK (Mar 19, 2010)

I looked up some stuff on google about what might be on my horses legs and the closest thing I found was Grunge. I didn't see pictures so I'm not sure if it's even right. I also looked in my Horseman's Veterinary Encyclopedia and didn't find any pictures there. I took some pictures and thought I'd see if any of you guys knew what it was!




























I assume it's a fungus that has progressed because it is scabby and bloody when i clean it. It is the worse on that one leg and the other 3 legs have random spots. I have bathed her with anti fungal shampoo and put MTG on her legs. That is all I have to treat it with for now.. besides proud flesh eating furazone. Can't put that on there!

Does anyone know how I need to treat it?! I read to wrap it with gauze and what not if it has progressed to scabs/bleeding. 

I'm on my way to the feed store to see what the owners have to say. They are big horse people. If i don't get some good advice here or there then I'll load her up and take her to the vet. I'm going to call or go by with pictures first to see what they say. 
Thanks in advance!!


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Looks like a fungal infection, aggravated by bug bites. Aka "rainrot"
Keep it clean, keep it dry.
Wash with an antifungal daily, you could use a pennyroyal or teatree oil shampoo - those both act as antifungal agents and pennyroyal helps repel bugs (they will be especially attracted to any damaged flesh) or an antifungal wash you can get at the store. 
After you wash it, dry it with a coarse towel, really fluff the hair. Getting all the "grunge" gone and air on the skin is the best thing you can do for it.

The gauze is to keep the bugs off it and to encourage air flow - do anything you can to achieve that result.

I had a friend who swore by washing, drying and then getting Gold Bond Medicated Powder (the athlete's foot stuff) up under the hair. I don't see why that wouldn't work. Her old gelding was really prone to it.

And may I say what a wonderful person you are for caring so much? Seriously, I lived in FL where this is really prevalent and most people just don't care, I even had one woman get all huffy with me and tell me horses are SUPPOSED to get it in summer.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

It looks a lot like what I've had to deal with when I lived in Montana and we called "scratches" there. We'd see it mostly on horses with white legs ... I've had a horse with three stockings that had it on all the stockinged legs and not a sign of it on the colored leg.

Vets there said it was often triggered by sunlight when horses ate some of the forage that increased the effect of sunlight ... St. Johns Wort was one of the plants that was particularly bad for that up there. We had one mare that we had to keep stalled during the day all summer and just turned her out at night.

It's difficult to treat ... one of the things I found that worked pretty well, actually made for rain rot, is something called Schreiner's solution. The purple "stuff" that you get as a liquid spray helps too, I think more as a sunblock than anything else. I've also used Desitin cream.

Some more information here:
http://www.myhorse.com/treatment-equine-scratches.html


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

I don't know what it is, besides painful looking! Poor horse. Hope you find a good solution to treat it!


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## MollyK (Mar 19, 2010)

I talked to the lady at the feed store and she said what I thought at first, but I didn't want to underestimate it... ant bites. Could be possible. We have TONS of ants at my house. tons. I'm going to get some DCD tomorrow and use that on her. 
I'm going to wash it still and keep a close eye one her to see if the other legs get worse. 
Hopefully the DCD will help out a lot with it being an anti-inflammatory.
I don't think it's rain rot... i have seen that a lot with my friends horses. Thank goodness mine don't really get rain rot. I'll have to look deeper into that and compare it to other things!

thanks for all your advice! Any other advice from others is welcome.


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

Now I feel even sorrier for your horse if it is ant bites! I thought they looked like bites, too, but I've never seen scratches, so didn't want to say anything. Not sure ant bites would bleed like that though? I guess if they caused enough of a reaction....


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Agree with sfm that it looks like scratches.
Haven't had it in years but I remember we used to treat it with an iodine wash and spray nitrofurazone on it.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Here is an in-depth article on the effects of photosensitivity (reaction to sun) in horses, describes very clearly what it looks like, things that increase sensitivity (types of forage, medications) and specifically mentions scratches.

http://www.ecmagazine.net/ecsum05/SummerSkin.htm


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Looks like severe scratches to me, also. I have successfully managed it in the past by being DILIGENT about an anti-fungal wash and then DRYING with towels every-other day. Apply any drying agent of your choice: Gold Bond Powder, Desitin, etc. In severe cases, the vet would give a steroid ointment to calm the inflamed, oozy skin.

Be sure to use towels only once, then hot-wash in bleach!


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

It sort of looks like scratches if you picked the scabs off and then took pictures; when my mare gets it (which is usually in the cooler wet end of summer/early fall) it looks more scabby and bumpy, not as much red dots. But my mare also only has one white foot so most of it is more hidden in her chestnut legs.

I guess I'd be most concerned with ant bites first and either rule that out. That would be horribly painful and annoying, to say the least!

I agree with the others if it is scratches, or if you can be reasonably sure it's not ant bites.....keep legs washed with antibacterial soap, dry thoroughly, treat with baby ointment (desinex or the likes) and keep an eye on it -- definitely get the vet out if it doesn't improve right away or gets worse.


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## mayfair (May 7, 2006)

It looks kind of like scratches or mud fever but I haven't ever seen it that bloody. We don't have ants so I have no idea what ant bites look like.


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

My old gelding got scratches a couple times. It never looked like that. It was sort of a clear, white scabbiness. My vet told me to soak his legs in epsom salts, wash them, and then put on an antibiotic ointment to sooth the irritation. It took awhile to clean up his legs, but it worked.


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## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

I've seen scratches this bad before- if you can, clip as close to skin as possible and follow the scratches treatments listed above. Make sure the horse is not out when ground is anything but dry, and keep legs Super clean and Super Dry. I've had the best luck with both MTG and Schreiners, cleaning first with Nolvasan.


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## fetch33 (Jan 15, 2010)

My mare gets scratches every spring to some degree or another. I make a paste of desitin, antibiotic ointment, antifungal ointment and steroid ointment. The areas get washed with antifungal soap, dried carefully and slathered with the ointment.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Scrathes/greasy heel. Have an old black Percheron gelding with it. Really hard to treat IMO.


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## jil101ca (Jul 2, 2007)

the first pic looks like a heel scratch, wash with antifungal, dry well and put an anti bacterial/fungal ointment on, do this daily. The other pics do look like bites. Same thing. Wrapping in gauze will keep ants or whatever is biting off and flies as well.


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## MollyK (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks for all your advice guys... but i'm gonna go against the scratches thing. I have a lot more info than I had before! 
I have never even heard of scratches down here. I looked up tons of information on it and the only thing that matches the 'scratches' description is that she has white legs. It's not just on her legs though. I found spots on her chin, cheek, under her main and on her hip... only on the left side of her body.
I don't think that scratches could have gotten that bad in 3 days. I saw her on thursday and she was fine... i went out of town early friday morning came back on sunday at lunch- when out and checked on them and I found her like that.
I think she laid down in an ant bed. I looked up information on that too. Ant bites can be very severe in horses since they can't get them off quick enough. 
I have another horse in the same pasture with white legs and she doesn't look like she has any kind of mark on her at all.. neither do my other two horses. 
I brought some horse smart people out to my house to take a look at her and they all said it was ant bites. 
Scratches, from what i read, is mostly on the fetlock area and gets very crusty with white scabs (as someone had mentioned). Also, a lot of articles said the pasture is usually muddy or wet. No wetness or mud in my pastures. It is dry as a bone here!

I tried to clip it... she said 'i'm not a fancy show horse get those things away from me' haha. she let me clip all on her belly and shoulder and neck.. but not on her legs.
I'm washing it still and applying the DCD which is furazone compounded with DMSO and Cortizone. Should help with the inflammation. It already looked tons better yesterday before I put the DCD on it. I got her out a little bit ago and it looks the same as yesterday. I'll wash it again today and see how it looks!


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## MollyK (Mar 19, 2010)

Also, my stallion had greasy heel a few months ago... They look nothing a like.. and that was a pain in my rear to treat! haha desitin and all.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Just curious..what is DCD? Am I having a brain dead episode? giggle.
Also, did staph infection get ruled out? I'm glad she is getting better!


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## MollyK (Mar 19, 2010)

DCD is what my helper lady calls this stuff. haha.

it is Furazone with Cortizone, DMSO, and dexamethasone. Probably has other things in it... Basically it is a steroid anti-inflammatory salve. It is made a vet offices.
I also have another furazone mixture for proud flesh. I don't know what it has in it.. but it works wonders at eating proud flesh away. 
DCD *prevents* proudflesh while helping with inflammatory and healing.

I'd never heard of it either.. maybe it's called something else!?


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

Ooooh, poor thing, were they fire ants? They can kill a foal or calf, ----able creatures that they are! Glad you were able to determine what happened, too bad she chose to lay down in ant bed! I can only imagine how that must have hurt, all those stings and no real way to get them off. Hope she recovers quickly - and is pickier about where she takes a nap next time!


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## MollyK (Mar 19, 2010)

I hope she'll be a little picker! I hope the other three will as well!
here is what it looked like tonight before I put the medicine on it.


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