# There HAS to be a better way to raise meat birds... right?



## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Hey Folks,

Can anyone tell me how they raise meat chickens? I did the Joel Salatin chicken tractor method... Ya know, I love Salatin, think he has a lot of great ideas and is doing his best to do things to right way... but this method just does NOT work for me! Something is going wrong every day and I am losing sleep over this... so, I'm think there has to be another way, right? To raise meat chickens on pasture but something other than this pull along method, right? Also, what is everyone feeding their birds? Mine were growing GREAT on the grower/starter and now they seemed to have stopped. Help...


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## Barn Yarns (Oct 7, 2012)

I free range mine when they are pretty much feathered out. I make them move around to get food, water, and roost. it helps to prevent leg problems (if you are raising the cornish-rock crosses)

I butcher at about 9 weeks, but I like a larger bird. 

I like leaving food and water outside the coop for my layers once the meat birds are gone. I bring all that in only if I have a fence jumping sheep, and then when it gets cold. 

I feed my meatbirds starter all the way thru to butcher. seems to keep the fat amount at a minimum on the bodies. I get it thru my local feed mill.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

I have the cornish crosses. Have you ever raised any other birds for meat? Those birds are obviously the standard, but they seem very unsustainable to me. Do you have trouble with predators?


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## Barn Yarns (Oct 7, 2012)

Ive only had a Raven come in and take out 1 bird this year. I *think* I had a **** get in my coop when we were gone overnight soon after I got chickens, but no losses. Now that my LGD knows about threats from the air, he will keep an eye on them a little more. 
When I first got chickens, I just got layers. I would send some roosters to freezer camp as I really only needed one. I used to hatch eggs too. But, now im at a stage in my operation that I have layers and meat birds. no roosters stay. I get new layers each year, and will cull the 2 yr old ones as soup birds. I do get the heavy layers, tho. I have Buff Orps, Barred Rocks and I think a couple Australorps. We butchered 172 CorninshX's this year. Will probly do between 100 and 150 next year, but I may do a 2nd late batch as I have been having folks ask for chickens again. 
Remember... the Cornish-Rock Crosses are ment to be butchered at 8 weeks. Ive had a couple live to 6 months when it finally cooled off enough to butcher, but that is not the norm. fed 9 people and still had a pound of meat left over from that bird! lol


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

I really dont like having these white chickens on the farm just because of their structural issues. I wanted them to grow a little more slowly than the norm as I have read that is the best way to avoid those problems. I am considering bringing in jersey giants for meat next year and letting them run the yard. I dont like the idea of having to order birds every year. those things are expensive! I would like to look into getting an incubator and hatching my own out. My dad did want to do meat birds for market but I just do not see that being an option for me. Have you or anyone you know raised J. Giants for meat?


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## Barn Yarns (Oct 7, 2012)

I have not messed with Giants. Maybe others here have? One thing you should consider is the cost of raising the larger meat birds. I dont think a JG would even be to egg laying age until 8 months or so. I had some Langshen crosses that started laying way later than the rocks and Orps. by a few months. so if they are laying later than that also means they arent at their peak of growth until later. 
I guess I like the idea that my meat birds are done and in the freezer in early/mid june and I dont have to mess with them any longer. 
Do you cut off their feed at night? with the reading that I did on these little monsters, the best way to avoid the leg problems was keeping them moving. I will at the most, only fill feeders 3x a day, as well. makes them go search out bugs and grasses.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

We have had pretty good success with the CornishX birds.
We keep them in a large coop and provide a nice sized fenced yard for them to roam about it, and they do roam.
We feed all they can eat in 1/2 hour or so twice a day switching from starter to grower at around 4 weeks.
We seldom have leg issues or their crops filling up and shutting off their breathing which some folks misdiagnose as heart problems.
We butcher anywhere from 8 weeks on depending on our schedule. This year though, we have downshifted to a 17% layer feed at 8 weeks instead of staying with the high powered grower or finisher. Cheaper and they seem to be holding on to their gains OK.

Since breast meat is about the only part of the bird I care for I like the CornishX. I haven't seen anything to rival it yet.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

I fill their feeders once a day. Averaging 1/3 pound of grain per bird. Their pen is moved once a day and once the grain is gone they forage for bugs and alfalfa. When I move the pen their is nothing left in that spot so I know they are getting their fill on forage. Youre probably right about the giants.... Are there any other good meat birds? The cost of grain really wont be an issue in a few years from now. We have plans to grow our own scratch grains. Mostly doing this to keep away from feeding GMO crops.


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## Buckhuntr (Oct 4, 2012)

DW and I got a variety of dual-purpose heritage breeds this Spring for layers and cockerals for the freezer. Dark Cornish and Delaware had good growth rates without the health issues of Cornish X birds. This was a personal choice for us to stay away from the commercial meat birds. Takes about twice as long as the crosses, but for us that was acceptable. Turkens also made a decent carcass.
There's the added advantage of the heritage birds that they can breed naturally if you want to raise your own replacements.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I have 3 pair cornishX I saved from this spring.
The hens are laying now. Didn't loose a single bird but did cull one that lost a fight to another one. I started free ranging mine at 2 weeks old. 
They are very big chickens. Don't know what they weigh but I have some white rocks and the cornishX makes two of them. They have never had any health problems and can fly up on a 4ft chain link fence.
They are very easy to raise. First thing you have to do is forget all of the ways you have been told to raise them.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Don't have personal experience with this, but a friend of mine had her hubby get the "hatching bug", and ended up with a kadzillion chickens on the place. She started selling them and butchering them, a couple at a time, while her hubby was at work, and let her hubby assume it was aerial predators cutting down the numbers. :teehee:

At any rate, one of the breeds was Jersey Giants, and she said, after butchering one, that she had to feed it to the dogs; it was all bone and no meat.

Don't know if that is true for all Jersey Giants, but it seems to me that the big skeletal frame to support all of that chicken would take a long time to grow, and in most animals, babies tend to grow in bones before they start putting on muscle mass.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Buckhuntr, caliann, thank you! I have heard and read a little bit about the Delaware breed. I would ultimately like to be able to breed for my own replacements. Thats about as sustainable as it gets, right? I will probably trudge forth with the cornish cross until I can provide my own grains then make the switch to another heritage breed. Buckhuntr, how do you raise your meat birds? Mobile pen, free range? I think a goal for next year will be fencing in the yard to separate the dogs and the chickens.


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## Buckhuntr (Oct 4, 2012)

Hannah, the Delaware was THE commercial meat bird for a decade or three until the CornishX was developed, and we could see why - ours outgrew every other breed we had (Dark Cornish was a close second).
All our chicks stayed under heat for almost 6 weeks, then into a chicken tractor for another few weeks, then into a covered pen that started life as a welded wire dog pen (left over from previous owner). When the second batch of young ones needed the dog pen, those birds - pullets and cockerals alike - went into the main poultry yard and coop with the older chickens and guineas. Wasn't the quickest or most efficient way to raise meat birds, but as we both work full-time jobs in the city, we managed them as budget and time permitted. When we had a weekend day to spare, we butchered the excess cockerals at about 18-20 weeks. 
Considering that those were (almost) the first chickens either of us had ever killed and butchered, I think we did ok. A few months ago we sent a few hens to freezer camp, the Dark Brahmas b/c the summer heat was really affecting them, and a RIR caught red-handed eating eggs.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Yes, I did some quick research and discovered they were bred to be broilers. I can see why the cornishX beat them out being ready in 6-8 as opposed to 12-15. I think I will bring in a few Delaware hens and a rooster next year to see if they will brood out chicks the following year. I am working on a new chicken tractor model that will hopefully work out better than the one I am using. I may seriously consider dividing the yard into two sections. One for birds one for naughty dogs that dont like to leave the birds alone. that has been on of my biggest problems. I guess I just didnt think it through when I got the chicks... that my dogs may want to eat them too!


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

I raise new hampshire reds, they are a dual purpose breed. They free range the yard, yes I lose a few to predators but it evens out because I dont feed them as much when they free range. I eatem at about 12 weeks, delicious!


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## PD-Riverman (May 24, 2007)

Hannah90 said:


> Hey Folks,
> 
> Something is going wrong every day and I am losing sleep over this... so, I'm think there has to be another way, right? ...


Hannah90 what is happening/going wrong every day? I am curious because I want to do some meat chickens next year. I have 3 chickens tractors now with regular chickens in them--move the tractors every other day---I am having no problems. Thanks


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Well, one day they rushed the side of the fence and broke through the wire because I was carrying the food. One day I came out to four dead bodies because ***** ATE through the wire. This morning the over priced $50 waterer I bought decided to not work. The pen was originally built for 75 birds but there are only about 40 birds in there now. Started with 50 and have lost ten. Only lost two in the brooder. Everyone else got killed after I moved them to the field. I mean, I think this is probably a workable system for some people but just doesnt seem to be working for me.


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## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Freedom Rangers are supposed to be a little more vigorous as meat birds... but a lot of people I've talked to are dumping their meat chickens and switching to NZ rabbits for more efficient sustainable meat and no more plucking.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

I have a good friend that suggested rabbits. This is lame, but there is no way I could kill a bunny. These will be the first chickens I will butcher. Plus, not a fan of rabbit meat.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Hannah90 said:


> I really dont like having these white chickens on the farm just because of their structural issues. I wanted them to grow a little more slowly than the norm as I have read that is the best way to avoid those problems. I am considering bringing in jersey giants for meat next year and letting them run the yard. I dont like the idea of having to order birds every year. those things are expensive! I would like to look into getting an incubator and hatching my own out. My dad did want to do meat birds for market but I just do not see that being an option for me. Have you or anyone you know raised J. Giants for meat?


One of our old neighbors tried the JGs for meat, and wound up with very little meat and a whole lot of bone. She swore she'd never raise them again, they had such a poor conversion rate.

We grow out Cornish X and have no problem. We do NOT keep food in front of them 24/7, and we make sure they get exercise. It does take a bit longer to grow them out this way, but the birds are healthier and, I think, happier for growing slower.

We use tractors, but they are much smaller than Salatin's. The small size makes it easier to move them around, and it's easier to keep a good head count. We tried to let the free-range during the day, but we have daughter's dog living here, and he has yet to make the distinction between dead bird for eats, and live bird for LEAVE IT ALONE!


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Pony, I am dealing with the same thing with my dogs. The older dog doesnt have much interest but my 5 month old pup is another story. I have been working with her a lot and its gotten to the point where she will basically leave them alone when I am out there but I wouldnt trust her out there alone.


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## ajaxlucy (Jul 18, 2004)

We raise a batch of Freedom Rangers every year for the freezer. They go out into a chicken tractor (hoop house made with wooden frame, cattle panels, chicken wire and tarp, with a rope tied on to pull it around) at about 4-6 weeks old with a heat lamp if necessary. They get some feed in the morning, then they're out free ranging during the day. I've got a chicken-sitter dog to keep the predators away. Late in the day, I reappear with a bucket of feed and they all run after me to get in the hoop house (which has been moved) for dinner. I close the door behind them and they're safe for the night. 

Last year I lost one to a hawk. I haven't lost any this year.

Someone else is doing the butchering for us this year. Because of scheduling, the birds will be 14 weeks old. We're going to have some meaty roasters.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

I have never heard of these freedom rangers. Are they a new cross?


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

I raised a batch of Red broilers back in the Spring. I wanted to put them in a tractor, but it was so dry there was nothing growing so they were coop raised on 30% starter/grower.

I have another batch coming next week. They will be on the ground as soon as they are feathered. 

These birds are hustlers, butchered out good and have a great texture and flavor.


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## PD-Riverman (May 24, 2007)

Hannah90 said:


> I have a good friend that suggested rabbits. This is lame, but there is no way I could kill a bunny. These will be the first chickens I will butcher. Plus, not a fan of rabbit meat.


We have a fairly large family get togethers several times a year where everyone brings certain dishes they bring each get together----usually between 40 and 70 people. We usually cook what we call a Chicken Bog, we cooked a small Rabbit Bog once for anyone that wants to try it---now alot of the family request/begs us to cook a rabbit bog----the last get together the rabbit bog pot was the first pot to get empty.

Young Fryer rabbits taste so much better fried than store bought chicken fryers---But if you do not like it----you do not like it.

You can get a young 5lb rabbit ready to cook in about 5 minutes----your chicken scalding water will not be getting real warm in 5 minutes.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Haha, yeah I know chickens are a longer process all the way around. I suppose I should try rabbit again. my only experience with rabbit is wild rabbit. I have never had domestic rabbit. The same friend did give me a package of her own own rabbit. Its in the freezer now. Any suggestions as to how to cook it for a first time try? If I like it, what kind of rabbit does one raise for meat?


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## Buckhuntr (Oct 4, 2012)

Dusky Beauty said:


> Freedom Rangers are supposed to be a little more vigorous as meat birds... but a lot of people I've talked to are dumping their meat chickens and switching to NZ rabbits for more efficient sustainable meat and no more plucking.


We skinned our birds iso plucking. don't eat the skin anyway. 
:rock:


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Oh lordy. I love a broiled chicken skin on. So much flavor there.


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2012)

Hannah90 said:


> I have never heard of these freedom rangers. Are they a new cross?


I LOVE my Freedom Rangers!! Not a new cross, they've been in Europe for over 50 years, they only came to the US a few years ago.

They are the best broilers for pasturing IMO. And they reproduce. The hens will go broody often enough to keep you a steady supply of meat chicks.

This is the only US hatchery that has them: Freedom Ranger Chickens - Freedom Ranger Hatchery



Buckhuntr said:


> We skinned our birds iso plucking. don't eat the skin anyway.
> :rock:


I skin them, too.


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## PD-Riverman (May 24, 2007)

Hannah90 said:


> Haha, yeah I know chickens are a longer process all the way around. I suppose I should try rabbit again. my only experience with rabbit is wild rabbit. I have never had domestic rabbit. The same friend did give me a package of her own own rabbit. Its in the freezer now. Any suggestions as to how to cook it for a first time try? If I like it, what kind of rabbit does one raise for meat?


Well, did she tell you how old the rabbit is? If its young I would fry it just like fried chicken. If it is a older rabbit--there is so many ways to cook it. Try simmering it in a crock pot for about 8 hours(or until tender) with your choice of seasoning. Then debone it---then you will have a nice plate of meat-----fix it anyway you want----we mainly cook it in rice using the brooth from the crock pot for the liquid for the rice.

Californians or New Zealands are probably the top choise for meat rabbits, but there are so many other breeds that will be fine.

There is nothing wrong with having a pet rabbit, but if you are raising meat rabbits---I would keep the pet rabbit by its self---LOL. I tell my Wife when she picks up a young rabbit to "smell its Nose" to Stop Playing with our food----LOL.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

I am not worried about the processing chickens after the killing is done. We have a plucker and a huge stock pot for scalding. I will have to look into these freedom rangers. Maybe I will try a mix of those and Delawares. So, some people say the meat birds wont grow on anything less than 20% protein food. True? I have also heard the chicken isnt as good if it takes longer than 8 weeks to fatten them. Is that just what people say now days?


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Just to stir the pot... I've raised ducks for several years. They have both good and bad aspects. A nice meat breed duckling (Pekin, Silver Appleyard, Saxony, Rouen come to mind) can be butchered right at 8 weeks for a decent meal. Otherwise you'll want to wait for about 12 weeks - they have only a few days between the first feathers and the molt for adult feathers. At 12 weeks you'll have a really nice big duckling though. 

Ducklings are tough and healthy generally, don't need as much heat as a chicken. However, they are messy and have 3 times the feathers to pluck. Ducks in general have weaker legs than chickens and do require more niacin in their diet, particularly ducklings, so they grow better. They need water available and should be able to bath to be healthiest and will make a mess of that water. You don't get white breast meat, but roast duckling is really nice and they have a lot of nice fat (can be rendered out for cooking grease, it's great). 

Just a thought to consider.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

I thought about getting ducks just to have around. No one in my family likes duck, unfortunately. I have never tried it myself, but I dont think it would be reasonable to raise meat for one person. thank you for your information though. typically people rave and rave about something but never share the inevitable downsides!


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Oh yah, a few ducks for fun is great. They are also the cutest possible creatures and very funny. You might well like their eggs, particularly for baking. Some of the egg laying ducks are very good layers and lay well for years, though as they age they can become seasonal. For cuteness and eggs, I'd recommend Welsh Harlequins and Anconas or the crazy Runner ducks (never had them myself). I love the random splotches on my Anconas and I love the sweet pretty Welsh Harlequin ducks. Welsh Harlequins have the benefit of being able to sex them by bill color as day olds (but by a week or so its a lot harder to tell).


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

We had two pekin ducks when. we were little kids. Dad brought them home for easter. One unfortunately was taken by a ****, but the other crazy thing decided to be broody and sit on unfertilized chicken eggs. She would only come out for the rain. I remember how she would hiss at anyone who came near her! Dad did eventually take the eggs one day during a rain or the silly thing would have sat there for months.


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## mrs whodunit (Feb 3, 2012)

A friend raises cornishx free range. Haven't asked the butchered weight. They lost a few to preditors but the chickens did great ranging far and eating loads of grasshoppers.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

You might want to check out the Slow White from Whelp Hatchery.  They are 1 of the foundation breeds that the CornishX was developed from. CornishX will not breed, they are aterile, but the Slow Whites will breed true and also lay good eggs. Excellent homestead meat and egg bird, self-purpetuating.


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2012)

goatlady said:


> CornishX will not breed,


They're not sterile, they just have difficulty mating because of their very large breast. But they can and will reproduce if given half a chance.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I can't speak about all cornishX but I can tell you about mine.
The large breast does not bother them. Their legs will not bend enough to make the connection needed. On normal large type hens the cornishX roosters are too wide betweer the legs. Their legs straddle the hens, putting their feet on the ground and damaging the hens in the process. Even the cornishX hens will be damaged by the large roosters.
I kept 4 roosters and hens back. The roosters were chosen because they are all a different type. One is very wide with short legs and large body. one is tall with longer legs and a body not as wide, one is just a big bird about the size of a turkey and the other one is slightly smaller. 3 of the 4 roosters is about the size of a large hen turkey.
The cornishX hens lay a slightly tinted egg. The size varies quite a bit from a normal large egg to a monster egg. One hen lays a soft shell egg.
So far I haven't hatched any chicks from them byr do have some eggs in the incubator.


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## copperhead46 (Jan 25, 2008)

I too am looking for a different breed to butcher. I raised Cornish X last year and they did well, I let them range and exercise. the breast was good eating, but the legs and thighs were so tough, I guess from carrying all that weight. I don't mind waiting longer for a better, tender bird. I looked at the freedom rangers and they didn't look much better than the cornish, but, I may go back and look again. A friend said she loves the Barred Rock, so, has anyone raised them


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

We like Marans. They have a big heavy carcass, lay as well as the more common dual purpose birds (plus they lay those cool dark chocolate colored eggs,) forage well and the hens go broody and are good mothers. As far as I know the black and black copper varieties have the largest bodies, the various lines of cuckoo we've had in the past were much smaller bodied.

They were originally developed a long time ago in France as a gourmet meat bird. Their meat has a good texture (not mushy and spongy like cornish X) and is dark, sweet and rich flavored. They don't have the short rounded carcass like the cornish. They are long bodied, but big and heavy. 

The common dual purpose breeds these days have been bred down to be scrawny egg layers. 

Some people don't mind ordering new birds every year. We don't like to do that. We like to keep a flock of birds that we know we like the characteristics of and have them raise their own replacements and our meat.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

I've never had a mushy spongy CornishX been eating them for 40 years.
With feed costs where they are, paying 1.19 a bird is a lot cheaper than feeding a flock over winter. We have used the same hatchery for 7 years and are satisfied with their birds.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

This is a topic we have been discussing around here often! We raised meat birds once. I just used a stall in the barn and they did great. I fed them 2x a day and they would lay their heads in the feed trough and sleep until I came back. I didn't know you had to schedule a butcher so they went almost 12 weeks and were about 12 lbs each. They were delicious. Best chicken we have ever eaten. Too bad I didn't have the butcher cut them up for us. They were all frozen whole and harder for me to plan to cook. But they were big, stinky, hot and oily-feeling birds. Just nasty - for all their deliciousness. And we'd like sustainability. And since breast meat is lower in fat, we like big ones. I don't think we'll find any bird with the same sized breasts as the Cornish X's. When we butchered regular chickens - we didn't get good breast meat. In fact, they were down-right tough. We know now that what we butchered were the packing peanuts the hatchery sent. If you are a beginner, there is so much to learn.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. You've given me lots of options.


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2012)

sammyd said:


> I've never had a mushy spongy CornishX been eating them for 40 years.


Compared to slower growing more conventional type of chickens, CX are mushy and spongy with much less flavor.


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## cnsper (Sep 6, 2012)

Also take a look at buckeyes for meat birds. I am getting some in the spring.


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## Hexe (Mar 8, 2007)

I raise cornish cross as well and they worked out really fabulous for us. They stay inside in a calf hutch until they are 2-3 weeks old (2 weeks in summer, 3 weeks in spring and fall), then they go out on pasture. They are housed in a small tractor that is made of two welded wire cattle/hog panels with some netting on the bottom (otherwise they slip out when they're small) and some tarps on both ends (cheap blue tarps, 4x5 ft - $5.00ea). I move the "house" every day to avoid them sitting in their own manure, they also don't have that terrible smell. Their house is situated in movable electric poultry netting that gets moved every 2-3 days, depending on weather and the age of the birds. This method has the advantage that there is no manure build-up on any particular spot, they are on fresh pasture every few days and the electric netting keeps out predators and dogs. Let me say though, that I have electric fencing on three sides of my property anyway and that helps out with the set-up. I have not had problems with hawks and keep the chickens confined in their cattle panel house over night to keep owls out. I do keep feeders full and food available at all times, but since they don't have lights at night - they don't eat at night.
My friend tried other birds (Freedom Rangers) last summer. They did range a bit further, but not enough to make a difference in the feedbill. She had to keep them longer to grow them out to the same size as a cornish cross, at which time they matured. That meant every rooster (50%) started crowing, fighting and raping every hen in sight. Evidently this caused quite a ruckus for the last 2-3 weeks she had them. She said she'll be raising cornish cross again next year...


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Dusky Beauty said:


> but a lot of people I've talked to are dumping their meat chickens and switching to NZ rabbits for more efficient sustainable meat and no more plucking.


This! We raised Cornish X for several years, and I was really pleased with how quickly they grew. I had zero leg problems, but I did not slug the feed to them, and they were total free-range out on pasture from 4 weeks on to butchering. In fact, I currently have a 2.5 yr old Cornish hen who got a free pass because she was slightly small when butchering day came. I never did have the heart to butcher her, so now she lives here permanently. She still roosts (well, on the lowest roost) and gets around great, even though she's a behemoth! 

But I switched over to rabbits and haven't looked back! Way less mess and smell, and they're cheaper and SO MUCH easier to process. 

I guarantee if someone says they can't bear to butcher a rabbit actually tries it, they will never go back to raising chickens!


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

we didn't care for the rabbits at all.
We did hundreds of them for a couple of years.
I can skin a bird just as quick and rabbits don't have big breasts like the birds did.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Seems to be a personal preference just like anything else. I can't give up chicken noodle soup and chicken and rice, ya'll. I suppose I will figure it out. I think for me, fencing in the yard and letting the chickens range there will be the best choice. I am going to fence the garden in. May as well do it all!


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Rabbits may not have big breasts, but they're all white meat. And I couldn't tell the difference between rabbit and chicken meat....


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## Mulegirl (Oct 6, 2010)

Hannah90 said:


> So, some people say the meat birds wont grow on anything less than 20% protein food. True? I have also heard the chicken isnt as good if it takes longer than 8 weeks to fatten them. Is that just what people say now days?


I don't know about the feed (we've got our trial roosters on grower/finisher right now), but from what I can tell the "isn't good if it takes longer than 8 weeks for them to grow out" is really a matter of preference. We REALLY liked the heritage turkeys we've had because the flavor was incredible. We've only done one rooster so far--an Ameracauna from a straight run pair we got at Tractor Supply--and he was kind of cruddy roasted. But he was also high strung, skinny, and about 18 weeks old. I've got pretty high hopes for the two Delawares we're doing in a week or two (who have grown much more quickly than the others), and for the Wyandottes as well--those boys are developing nice heavy bodies. And _all_ of the trial roos we're raising right now are a heck of a lot calmer. The Australorps are downright friendly, and the Orpingtons, while a little pecky, are at least not terrified of me like that poor Ameracauna was (we think a few days in the Tractor Supply chick bin did not do him much good). There is someone in Maryland, I think, who's working on returning Delawares to the really good production meat bird that it used to be--apparently the stock has deteriorated a bit since the 40s--so if you're thinking about a sustainable flock eventually, you might want to track that person down.

On fencing: have you thought about electronet? I've seen a number of people who swear by the stuff, and we're saving up to get some for a mobile chicken enclosure (to go around an A-frame chicken tractor built on Harvey Ussery's model) next spring.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

I guess all I can do is experiment, right? I have a little ameracuana pullet. She is so skittish compared to my barred rocks and sex link hens. maybe it is just how some of them. Not to say all of ameracuana chickens out there are skittish creatures. I really want to get electronet, but like you, I need to save up. I am hoping if I am able to sell my first cutting of hay, I can get some rolls along with some chargers and all the googies that go along with it. If I can get electronet, I may build a tractor that isnt really an enclosure but just protection from the elements since the fencing would protect them from everything else. I may have to track dow the person is Mass. So what they are up to with the Delawares. Thanks for your input.


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## Mulegirl (Oct 6, 2010)

Give the pullet time. The one we got with that rooster was really skittish for a while too, but over the past two months (about the time she would have started laying if the light hadn't been declining) she has gotten REALLY friendly. She's the chicken who's the most comfortable being picked up and petted and interacted with now, and she'll follow me around like a dog if I give her half a chance.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

That is so sweet. I am not sure this little girl will make it or not. By the time she was 2 weeks old I noticed she has a crooked beak. Mom said she had a group of polish hens born with the same problem and she eventually had to put them down. I noticed she was half the size of all the other girls , picked her up and realized her poor little beak had grown completely crooked. She seems fine for now. The most active of the group. A few of them are quite friendly and the other tolerate me walking amongst them but do not care for being picked up. One little pullet, a sex link, pecks my fingers every time I reach for her. I think it is kinda funny. Just her personality. Gotta love chickens!


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## eclipchic (Oct 24, 2010)

We take the "old fashioned" approach, let the hens hatch chicks and let them free range. Kill roosters around 16 weeks. Of course this end up being later than 16 weeks though and we get a pretty strong tasting bird unfortunately.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

This morning I took a couple of cornishX chicks out of the incubator.
I incubated a few cornishX eggs just to see if they would hatch.
Sort of strange, one of the chicks has a red tinge to it.


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

pancho said:


> This morning I took a couple of cornishX chicks out of the incubator.
> I incubated a few cornishX eggs just to see if they would hatch.
> Sort of strange, one of the chicks has a red tinge to it.


Pancho, what kind of roo were the hens bred by? It will be interesting to see how the chicks turn out. Maybe you should start a thread following their growth with pics


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Because they are only a hybrid at this point and not an established cross, the babies will not be true to their parentage. I found it interesting that a few in my batch I bought from the hatchery have a few black feathers.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Hannah90 said:


> Because they are only a hybrid at this point and not an established cross, the babies will not be true to their parentage. I found it interesting that a few in my batch I bought from the hatchery have a few black feathers.


The ones I bought last spring had a few barred feathers.
One of the chicks I took out of the incubator looks like a normal cornishX except for the color.
The other is white but looks like it has muscles already.


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## Bat Farm (Apr 21, 2010)

We have buckeyes right now because we want to be able to breed our own. They haven't been scrawnied down to lay more eggs which is fine for us - we wanted a true duel purpose. We will be processing a batch in two weeks (earliest date we'll have time to do it, they are big enough now). I'll try to remember to report back how they did.


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## nbone (Dec 31, 2007)

Loving this thread. So much good input.We too like the idea of the "old fashioned" way, hatching out our own replacements. The challenge is finding something that will grow fast and fill out nicely. Nothing, that I am aware of will get there as quick as the cornishX's. So best you can do is find something acceptable. If you find the right cross or purebreed of a dual purpose bird you just hatch your eggs keep your layers, eat your roos, sounds so simple, lol. I like the delawares alot as well as the buckeyes, My current egg layer flock consists of delawares and blk astralorps. Am thinking of maybe aquiring some NH reds or buckeye roosters to try some crosses with our hens. Always fun to try to think of a good cross. I like the input from fellow homesteaders about raising meat rabbits. I too would much rather process rabbits than chickens and we do raise rabbits too NZXCal crosses. But, if you want to raise/hatch chickens for eggs, you have to do something with all the roos hatched and yes there is something to be said for chicken noodle soup/ broth. We use ours mostly whole, simmered, soups etc. You just cant get the same flavor in the broth from a store bought package of chicken. Using just the meat as in frying, hard to beat the store bought commercial birds, but if you have that self sufficiant bug, you just gotta find your own answer to the tender juicy bird. I want one bird, that will give us suffciant eggs and do well as a meat bird, true "dual purpose". I tried to make a choice between chicken/rabbit as far as raising. For now,I will continue to raise both,meat is similar as far as white meat, but you just cant get that flavor for soup from rabbit as soo low fat. Love to hear more from those that have tried different crosses or ideas for possible crosses.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I do some experimental breeding.
I have a line of bantams that are my favorites. They can be sexed when they hatch.
The hens are very good layers and the roosters have a large breast. The eggs are larger than bantams but I still have to use 2 to equal one large egg. I split the roosters down the back, split them open, and grill them. They are very hardy and can free range with the best of them.


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## Buckhuntr (Oct 4, 2012)

From my own recent experience with heritage breeds, because they are NOT the modern CornishX freakishly-fast growth supermarket broiler-fryers, you can't expect to get the same results with the same cooking methods. Fry a cockeral of 18-22 week age, and you're probably going to get a stringy and tough piece of fried chicken. But cook that same bird low and slow with plenty of liquid, such as a braise, and you'll get flavorful, tender meat (maybe a little chewier in texture, but still tender enough). 
I have a countertop rice cooker with steamer basket. I most recently put 4 leg/thigh quarters in the steamer with some herbs (fresh basil and rosemary leaves laid on the chicken work great to keep it moist), rice in the bottom, and the chicken was very tender, even though it was 20-week heritage birds 
(either Turken, New Hampshire, Dark Cornish, Ameraucana, or Delaware, not sure which made it into which freezer bag).
The breast half in the steamer turned out as tender as a supermarket breast. 
Granted, they ate more food than the CornishX would, but IMHO the exercise and foraged bugs added much to the flavor of the meat. Just my 2-cents worth.


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## happydog (May 7, 2008)

I also love Joel but we are just a small family and not doing it for the money so we don't have the ideal setup (plus labor!) that he does.

Last year was our first year growing meat chickens. I tried the free ranging thing. I lost 15% of my birds. It was too much work keeping them contained, and whenever they got out the dog couldn't resist chasing them, and they couldn't outrun him... It ticked me off to be buying chicks and stuffing expensive feed down them, only to lose them.

So this year I kept them all in a barn stall. I'm sorry they couldn't get out and free range and soak up the sun and eat bugs and all, but on the other hand, I only lost one out of 42 birds. (I accidently stepped on it's head.) And since the whole point of raising them is to eat them, I'm calling this more of a success than last year.

Next year I may try something different, but look at the big picture. Every year you'll figure out how to improve your setup. 

I would love to find a breed that's sustainable. But our family prefers breast meat and the cornish x is the Dolly Parton of chickens. Plus it's so tender! So as long as we can buy chicks relatively cheap we'll stick with that. We have rabbits as well but haven't butchered them yet to compare.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but you might look into feeding twice a day. From what I've read it slows down their growth somewhat so they don't just sit in the feeder all day. We mix feed with milk from our cow and that seems to work for us. They grow fast but we've not had any problems with them.

Also, we found our chicks from Schlect Hatchery to be heavier and more thrifty all around than the chicks we ordered this year. Next year we'll use them again.

You'll learn from this year, and you'll do it better next year.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

I think dad and I have decided that we will reconstruct our pen next year. I have drawn up a dome shape model made of pvc pipe on four wheels. This will be used with (hopefully) electronetting so it doesn't have to be prison tight. 

Happydog, did you actually mix the food with the milk, making it into a mash? Or did you feed them separately. I have had a few folks suggest using my spare milk for the chicks.


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## happydog (May 7, 2008)

My extension agent warned me not to feed milk. Said they couldn't digest it and it would give them diarrhea. So last year I experimented, and lo and behold they digested it just fine and by butchering time I was giving them half feed and half milk and they were plump and healthy.

So this year I started the chicks out right away giving them as much milk as I could get the feed to soak up. I figure it cut my feed bill in half. They grew out just fine and made plump little carcasses. 

I don't know if it's because it's raw milk (I have Jerseys) or if he was misinformed. But next year I'm going to offer them clabbered milk separately, in addition to the milk soaked feed. 

I've read that raw milk is a good treatment for cocci. We've never had cocci so I don't know if that's true.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

I have a dexter in milk right now. Probably going to start offering the chickens milk these next two weeks. Now that I have chicken with no milk offered in the freezer, and hopefully some with milk, I wonder if there will be a taste difference.... Ever noticed? Cutting down the food bill would be GREAT.


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## happydog (May 7, 2008)

I haven't noticed anything except the chicken is flavorful, moist, and tender.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Well, I guess I know where all my extra milk will be going to for the next two weeks! Thank you!


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2012)

happydog said:


> My extension agent warned me not to feed milk. Said they couldn't digest it and it would give them diarrhea.


Clabbered raw milk is one of the best foods you can give pigs and chickens.

The extension agent is partially misinformed. RAW milk has the digestive enzymes right in it. Most people who are lactose intolerant can drink raw milk just fine. 

Vets will warn against giving milk to dogs and cats, because they can't digest it. Vets who say that don't understand that applies to PASTEURIZED milk. Pasteurization destroys the digestive enzymes and the healthy bacteria naturally present in milk. You can give RAW milk to cats and dogs.

Clabbering (raw milk) makes it better, because clabbering concentrates the healthy digestive bacteria in the milk. Clabbering more or less pre-digests it.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

I got scared for half a second as I was reading the part in your post regarding milk and dogs, ladycat. I have been giving my dogs all the extra milk they can drink. They love it. I think it actually helped fill my little pup out a bit. she was so gangly for the longest time.


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## houndlover (Feb 20, 2009)

It's the breed, not the method. Don't do cornish crosses.


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## happydog (May 7, 2008)

Some folks hate the cornish crosses. I prefer them. I had a couple of huge Plymouth Rock roos I butchered along with the cornish x. Long legs but scrawny breasts. I guess it depends what you like. I prefer the tender breast meat and the quick growing of the cornish crosses. I like being done with the whole chore in two months. And I love the meat.


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## ODINSWORN (Jun 8, 2010)

I know its controversial, but there is also the option of caponizing extra roosters from your laying flock. I plan to start practicing on butchered roosters next spring personally. 

This is strictly for making better use of extra roosters, as I prefer rabbits for most meat. The only thing I miss is a whole roasted chicken, hence I'm going to try capons, because it sounds as though it doesn't get any better than them for a roasting chicken. Rabbit saddles are very much like breast meat, even my wife who was very tentative on the whole rabbit venture now admits that you can't tell rabbit saddle from chicken breast when its been boned and sliced. Rabbits are soooooo much easier to propagate, and they're easy to have on hand fresh for slaughter year round, even here in Northern Michigan. If you want to sell the meat though, good luck. Plus, I feed them lawn clippings that I cut with my scythe in the summer, along with a bit of calf manna, and give them mineral licks and they do great, no feed bill at all. No reason to give up chicken and rice, or chicken noodle soup, rabbit makes way way better of both. In fact, I use most of my rabbits in soups, or as a rice and meat dish. I have taken to butchering a batch into several parts. Rear legs in one bag for frying up like drum sticks, Boned out saddles into another bag for chicken breast recipes, and the remainder of the carcass gets made into stock and canned meat. I suppose if you were into chicken wings, the front legs would do well for that. Personally I don't find chicken wings or rabbit forelegs worth the bother, better used for soup. IMO


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Rabbits are great except for a couple of things. First off, they can't stand heat. When it got into the high 90's around here, I had to keep a sprinkler going on their outside hutches all day long or come home from work to find them dead or in a bad way. Second, filling waterers and feeders on, say, ten hutches (four for breeders, and a couple grow-out pens for each group of babies), takes a whole lot longer than filling one waterer and one feeder for as many chickens as I'll ever want. I really did like the bit about feeding grass, though. Nothing like a tiny feed bill AND good meat!


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## TimG (May 13, 2009)

I haven't read the whole thread, but have a few comments about sustainable backyard meat breeds. Sorry if some of this has already been mentioned.

I researched a lot about sustainable (meaning I could keep and breed) chickens for meat a few years ago. Since then I have raised Delawares, Cornish Crosses, & Freedom Rangers and discussed those and more with lots of people.

+ Some people have raised Cornish Crosses to breeding age, though it is not particularly fruitful, cockerels especially are prone to dying of heart attacks; pullets will lay, but breeding with another Cornish Cross is doubtful.

+ Freedom Rangers grow a bit slower than Cornish Crosses and are not as consistent in their size, maybe process at 12 weeks instead of 8 weeks; Freedom Rangers can be kept until breeding age with more success that Cornish Crosses, but it still isn't a reliable process. Freedom Rangers act much more like chickens than Cornish Crosses do, they will free range and don't develop the heart and leg issues like the Cornish Crosses. . .at least not nearly as often.

+ In my opinion, Freedom Rangers produce better meat than the Cornish Crosses, a little more chickeny. . .

+ Delawares (the result of a sport when crossing a New Hampshire and a Barred Plymouth Rock -- you cannot simply breed a New Hampshire and Barred Plymouth Rock and automatically get a Delaware) were the meat bird of industry before Cornish Crosses appeared on the scene. They are an all white bird which makes their carcass more attractive to some. They do not grow as fast or as big as the Freedom Rangers.

+ New Hampshires (no Red in their name, though they were developed exclusively from Rhode Island Reds) were used as meat birds around the same time as Delawares; the New Hampshire won a national competition as "bird of the future". There are very few old style meaty New Hampshires in the US, most US lines are smaller. In the last few years a New Hampshire line has been imported from Germany, this line shows great promise as far as size goes (and has been successful in the show ring).

+ New Jersey Giants are very slow growing and have a large skeleton so even when they get big, they are not necessarily good for meat.

+ Most hatchery lines today are selected for things other than size, so buying Delaware chicks (for example) from a hatchery does not mean you will get good sized birds. If you are raising a heritage breed for meat, you should look around and find a breeder who has been selecting for size and early growth. 

+ A couple other breeds that have a following amongst homesteader types: Brahmas and Buckeyes.

+ You cannot produce your own Cornish Crosses -- it's not merely a matter of crossing a Cornish and a Rock -- the parent and grandparent lines the hatcheries use are also highly developed for the specialized purpose of producing Cornish Crosses.


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## chayseb (Dec 7, 2012)

i had this same sort of question about the cornish cross...So i chose to go with the deleware for a meat bird, it was the original meat bird before the cornish cross came around based on what i read


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## TamiJoyFarm (Oct 18, 2012)

Dusky Beauty said:


> Freedom Rangers are supposed to be a little more vigorous as meat birds... but a lot of people I've talked to are dumping their meat chickens and switching to NZ rabbits for more efficient sustainable meat and no more plucking.


I've been raising freedom rangers and have been very happy with the hardiness of the breed and the meat is great. We butcher around 12-15 weeks. I use a very large tractor that a friend of mine built. It is very sturdy and is critter proof but it requires my DH and myself to move the thing around, which is a big PITB! Thus, the reason my friend "gifted" it to me.  

I've considered building a house for the Freedom Rangers and allowing them to free range in the pasture but don't want to ask my DH to build another building since he is building a loafing/equipment shed right now and I know he would like to get back to brewing!!


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

GrannyCarol said:


> Just to stir the pot... I've raised ducks for several years. They have both good and bad aspects. A nice meat breed duckling (Pekin, Silver Appleyard, Saxony, Rouen come to mind) can be butchered right at 8 weeks for a decent meal. Otherwise you'll want to wait for about 12 weeks - they have only a few days between the first feathers and the molt for adult feathers. At 12 weeks you'll have a really nice big duckling though.
> 
> Ducklings are tough and healthy generally, don't need as much heat as a chicken. However, they are messy and have 3 times the feathers to pluck. Ducks in general have weaker legs than chickens and do require more niacin in their diet, particularly ducklings, so they grow better. They need water available and should be able to bath to be healthiest and will make a mess of that water. You don't get white breast meat, but roast duckling is really nice and they have a lot of nice fat (can be rendered out for cooking grease, it's great).
> 
> Just a thought to consider.


I'm on another thread begging to know how to process ducks--I have a few nice fat young ducks-adult feathered-I'm guessing about 8? lbs. I have never butchered a duck, and only butchered a goose many years ago--I dry plucked the goose. I would love to bake it. Whats the easiest best way?


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

It was mentioned earlier about ducks sitting on chicken eggs--can ducks raise chicks if allowed to hatch chicken eggs?


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2012)

countrytime said:


> It was mentioned earlier about ducks sitting on chicken eggs--can ducks raise chicks if allowed to hatch chicken eggs?


Hens have no trouble raising ducks, but it's difficult for ducks to raise chicks. You have to make sure the duck can't get the chicks into water.


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## Sonlifefarm (Dec 13, 2012)

It has been a great thread to follow, great getting everyones ideas. That milk idea is great! This is my first real blog reply and am suffering from stag fright. I thought I would respond with my problems from my first year as well. I have done the Salatin system this year also and have had some same issues. 
I did two batches of a hundred each-in the spring and fall. Even in Salatins book which my wife has underlined it states "you will be suprised at all the things that will go wrong" 
First batch the main problem was watering got hot and had to carry water often and my bell waters would not work reliably. (causing stress on me and the birds) Fixed that problem with running poly pipe from pressured water supply to home made waterer using a hudson valve. They seem to love that as they really dunk there beak in and seem to drink more. Problem #1 solved.
On the first batch I did not have big enough feeders and made sure they finished there feed before refilling. I thaught this would make them eat more grass. Big Big mistake when I got done at the end of 8 weeks they only wieght about 5 pounds. Since we have to send out chickens to a processesor to sell here in Ontario, there was no money in selling 5 pound birds. In my second batch I kept them feed all the time and next time will triple the amount of feeders I have. At the end of 10 weeks the second batch they still only wieght approx 7 pounds. So my wieght problem is still not solved I want a 8 - 10 pound birds in 10 weeks that is when I make money. My good friend has been raising them for years and gets 10 pounds in 10 weeks without feeding corn. This is done the conventional way. He says my problem is the birds need it about 65 degrees to grow at that rate and cut down on the exercise. Niether of which I will not do, so I do not know how to overcome this problem but I have some ides. 
My other problem was I did not like the crowding of the Salatin pens when they got older. (however I see why Salatin does this as this would stop the over exercise problem) but what I did was used the Salatin pen and open the frontside and hinged it so I open it in the morning and close it at night to keep the owls out. I then surrounded the pens with poultry netting. This way it spread the manure around better, but if I could not move the pens that day I would not have to stress and could wait till the next day. Because I would move the pens everyday and the netting every 3 or 4 days. This system worked great except they got so much exersice they would not put on the wieght. I guess the law of unintended consequences rules here. 
I never had one health problem with the cornish cross birds. 
I read this great article about a guy who raised and breed his cornish cross birds with great success. He just limited there feed greatly and let them get there exercise and free range, they breed fine. The trick was not allowing them to get too fat to breed.
Also predation not a big problem but solved this by leasing my dog near the pens at night. My dog was my biggest predator when not leashed.
We shall see what problems there will be instore for next year.
Scott


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

I had about half decided to use electronet around the birds so my "tractor" could be lighter and more just a shelter thana pen. I didnt even think about how their exercise w *ould cut down on their weight gain. *sigh* I have some different tractor models in mind that will make things a little easier. I would agree with your friend that they grow better in cooler weather. We self butcher, so I dont advise keeping them too late in the year. Our second round of butchering was a cold, windy day and made things miserable.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Hannah90 said:


> I had about half decided to use electronet around the birds so my "tractor" could be lighter and more just a shelter thana pen. I didnt even think about how their exercise w *ould cut down on their weight gain. *sigh* I have some different tractor models in mind that will make things a little easier. I would agree with your friend that they grow better in cooler weather. We self butcher, so I dont advise keeping them too late in the year. Our second round of butchering was a cold, windy day and made things miserable.


I let mine free range. They got all of the exercise they wanted but they sure grew. Didn't have a problem with low weight gane.
I kept back a few. They are monsters now but still get around real good.
Some of mine can breed, about 25% of the roosters are not able to because of stiff and long legs. Their weight tears up the hens some, even the cornishX hens.
I have hatched some out of mine. All cornishX are not the same. The early maturing ones are not that good for breeding. The later maturing ones seem to be better.


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## Sonlifefarm (Dec 13, 2012)

Hey pancho 
Good info on Cornish cross breeding. Do you know how much the average wieght was at 8 weeks and then 10 weeks.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Sonlifefarm said:


> Hey pancho
> Good info on Cornish cross breeding. Do you know how much the average wieght was at 8 weeks and then 10 weeks.


No, I don't weigh anything.
I do know one chicken would fill completely a 1 gallon freezer bag. Some were a little larger.
Right now a 1 gallon freezer bag would go over their head but that is about as far as it would go.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

If I can get my yard fenced in next year I will try free ranging a batch. I held four back this year. for no other reason than I just ran out of steam on butchering day. They are too stupid to go in the coop at night, and I am sick of chasing them around, so I am giving them away this evening. Thank the lord. These arent my cup of tea to keep, but more power to anyone that does. I like my springy barred rocks more.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Hannah90 said:


> If I can get my yard fenced in next year I will try free ranging a batch. I held four back this year. for no other reason than I just ran out of steam on butchering day. They are too stupid to go in the coop at night, and I am sick of chasing them around, so I am giving them away this evening. Thank the lord. These arent my cup of tea to keep, but more power to anyone that does. I like my springy barred rocks more.


I never had any problems getting mine to go into the chicken coop.
Mine were free ranging when they were 2 weeks old.
I found mine to be pretty smart for a chicken. Much tamer and gentle than other breeds.
Guess I am just lucky.


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## Hannah90 (May 2, 2012)

Oh, Ill give it to them, they are nice and friendly birds. For whatever reason those four just wouldnt go in the coop at night. Sometimes one or two go in, or i would find them in there during the day. Silly things. Oh well, I just sent them off to live in a nice pasture home where they'll run with the lady's pygmy goats.


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## casusbelli (Jan 6, 2009)

My experience is very limited: to butchering one litter of 5 californian rabbits at 12 and 15+ weeks. Never butchered a chicken, just have layers.
But, FWIW:
1) rabbits aren't reproducers you might expect from saying like 'breed like rabbits". The doe can be very finicky who she'll breed with, and can be downright unreceptive. I liked butchering in cold weather (no rush re: spoilage, no flies, etc, and the garden was already put to bed for winter) but that caused me to wait too late in the season, and found out her receptivity is related to day-length. Next year I'll try earlier - early Sept instead of mid oct. 
2) It's a bit more important to develop your own method of killing rabbits, and to be quick. A chicken and a hatchet is easy. But a rabbit who screams is not a sound you forget very soon . I settled on breaking necks using a funnel-shaped cut-out on a vertical plywood board (where they also hang on hooks to bleed out and be butchered) followed quickly by a matchete passed fast down the board like a guilletine.
3) don't know what a 'saddle' is, but what I call the loins (meat behind abdomen between chest and pelvis) is DELICIous. It's stew in a crock pot for me.
4) Cat gets the hearts, dog gets the kidneys and livers. I know, I oughta try the livers myself some time. 
5) rabbit pelts are no good from 12-15 week olds. Too thin, too young. Pelts are from wild or older rabbits. Just toss them and the guts. 

I too would like to have self-replacing meat chickens. Someone mentioned Buckeyes, another Marans. Can more folk chime in with their experiences? Any breeds have good laying characteristics, good meat, and good brooding/mothering? With my past luck, I'd likely get more roos than hens in a generation anyway, and have meat for the freezer.


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## Runners (Nov 6, 2003)

Every time I bump into someone that bought his books, I try to gently remind them that the farm was inherited, a publisher, not a farmer, farm help is provided by apprentices, etc... guess who's _not making $25k a year on pastured poulty, beef ...?_ 

Got the books, _even autographed several of them while we visited the "farm"... it's quite a bit BIGGER than 20 acres. _The profits are in selling BOOKS.

If the goal is to produce a big bird, efficiently, their movements need to be _confined_ to less than 2 square feet, otherwise, they burn up the feed by running around the containment pen. Which is why J.S. 16x16 pen holds LOTS of meat birds. They pack on the pounds because they _can't run around the pen - it's too crowded. 
_
If the birds seem to stop or gain very slowly after 4 weeks, pack more in the pen 1.5-2 squ ft per bird is what was _recommended._ a 16x16 pen to be _profitably stocked so the birds gain, can be calculated easily:

16 x 16 = 256 squ ft
256 / 2 = 128 birds for slow gain_
_256 / 1.5 = 170 birds for a more "profitable" gain._

Every calorie / ounce of feed lost to bird movement is money lost.
_... doesn't it sort of sound like a big commercial chicken farm philosophy?

_Here's what we've been doing, less work, not as efficient, costs more, and we enjoy it. The birds run wild or free-range during the day, keeping the garden bug population to near zero, and we lock them up at night so the predators can't get them. Our dogs have been _educated_ that the ducks, chickens and turkeys are to be _guarded, not chased nor eaten (until cooked).

_Egg layers can roost, their houses are off the ground and they put themselves to bed, we just lock the door at dusk. They also know where the nest boxes are, and use them (sometimes hatching a few, the rest go into the incubators).

Non-egg layers, Turkeys and Ducks go to their hoop houses, some have a special elevated house with a wide ramp - those are my Welsh Harlequin & Silver Appleyard ducks.

It's been working - without _that kind of_ effort, since 2003.

Keep in mind, breed choice has got a lot to do with your success or failure.
A Rock-Cornish cross is bred to be _confined, _gain very fast and butchered before 8-10 weeks. After that - you're wasting $$ feeding them. ... and incase you didn't know, the genetics are protected by law, trade secrets - _it takes decades to duplicate the strains that Tyson & Perdue have... and lots of failures!_ It's a 4 way cross to produce the Rock-Cornish, and each strain is unique... breeding 2 of them together _might_ work _once_, but the power of weight gain in genetics is already lost. Last time I checked, the book peddler was still buying his day-old chicks from
the _same place_ - one of those FACTORY CHICKEN FARMS!
Bill
PQF & Hatchery.

a DUCK holds the egg laying record...


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Last spring, I lost my Buckeye rooster. So, for that time, I just ran my Buckeye hens with my Barnavelders, since they lay such vastly different colored eggs, I figure it would be no problem.

Well, DH decided to put some of those Buckeye eggs in the 'bator, and hatch them out, for reasons known only to him.

The "Buckavelders" that hatched out were interesting. Rich, rust colored with single, black lacing. Really pretty. So I kept them.

They have continued to be interesting. The extra roos butchered out respectably, with larger breasts than you normally get on dual-purpose breeds. I waited for the hens to start laying. I was curious what color of egg they would lay.

Yesterday, I got my answer: Buckavelder hens lay Salmon-pink eggs.  Large ones.

I kept one roo out of that, and I think I might see what an F2 generation brings.


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2012)

CaliannG said:


> Last spring, I lost my Buckeye rooster. So, for that time, I just ran my Buckeye hens with my Barnavelders, since they lay such vastly different colored eggs, I figure it would be no problem.
> 
> Well, DH decided to put some of those Buckeye eggs in the 'bator, and hatch them out, for reasons known only to him.
> 
> ...


Can you post any pics?


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