# Wind turbine out of alternator



## grumpy1 (Feb 3, 2015)

I've heard of folks converting old automotive alternators and engine fans to be used as a wind turbine. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing


----------



## Bottleneck (Apr 22, 2014)

check out wind blue power, they sell parts just for using alternators as wind generators. the biggest problem is that alternators require an exciter voltage to get them started charging. using (or buying the stuff to convert to) a permanent magnet alternator.

also the engine fan would be horribly inefficient. if you don't like whats available i would suggest checking out youtube for how to carve blades from either wood or foam.


----------



## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

The one people use for Wind turbines are PMA (Permanent Magnet Alternator)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_lwpITApVs[/ame]

Second that a engine fan would not work.

You need a a better rotor, there is also savonius type.

Also a alternator is a 3ph generator, using a 3ph rectifier to change it to DC.
Its best to pull the rectifier and pull the 3ph AC for Transfer.
Rectify at the termination, less loss in transfer.


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

The automotive 'Alternator' is short for 'Alternating Generator'.
The Alternator produces current in 3 phase AC,
Which is rectified to DC that your battery and vehicle electrical system can use.

This is accomplished by Energizing a 'Rotor', an Electro Magnet on the spinning shaft of the Alternator.

LINK: http://www.junkyardgenius.com/charging/alt02.html

LINK: http://www.junkyardgenius.com/charging/alt03.html


-------------

Since it's NOT practical to apply electrical current to the Rotor during operation when that alternator is at the top of a 'Mast',

And since you are NOT trying to regulate the output, but make the alternator produce as much power as possible at all times,
Then you replace the electro magnet windings with a permanent magnet that requires no electrical power to operate,
And the unit will produce as much energy as possible at all times.

You will be at 100% magnetic field at all times, so when the rotor is TURNING,
You will produce the maximum electrical current possible for the rotor speed.

-----------------------------

An engine fan is virtually worthless...
I leaned this the hard way a long time ago.

A simple blade arbor (replaces the pulley), with LONG, THIN blades will produce more 'Swept' area, and turn your generator more efficiently.

I've carved blades out of wood, made them out of PVC tubing (plumbing pipe), and I've purchased blade/mount kits.

It's VERY EASY to cut out layers of thin sheet metal to make your arbor/hub,
And cut PVC pipe for blades, 
There are 'You Tube' videos showing how this is done all over the place...

---------------------------

Now, engine 'Alternators' are designed to produce AMPERAGE at low voltage.
Most of us want higher voltage...

AND,
We are dealing with MUCH lower shaft speeds...
So rewinding the STATOR, the 'Coils' in the alternator will produce higher voltages at less amperage...
Making the unit more efficient.

I suggest you start with an INDUSTRAL or COMMERCIAL alternator, something off a big truck or piece of heavy equipment,
They have ROLLER BEARINGS instead of bushings, so they last a LOT longer,
And they have LARGER WINDING POCKETS so you can pack more wire into the 'Stator' and produce more voltage.

Some of the industrial units can be bolted together, allowing you to have TWO Stators/Rotors in the same package, producing twice the electrical output.
The 'Single Stator' generators always seemed like a dumb idea to me, why waste the rotational energy on ONE generator when it's very easy to bolt two of them together in the same case?

RE-WINDING is SIMPLE, but scares the crap out of every one...
It's time consuming when you do it by hand, but normally you only do it ONCE.

The alternator will provide you with the 'Rectifier', there is one built into every alternator.
Simply reuse it to convert 3 Phase AC to DC you can use for batteries, inverters, ect.

-----------------

One thing I found MUCH more productive/efficient was to use the slip rings off the rotor,
Since you are using a permanent magnet(s) you don't need that slip ring set on the rotor,
And move it to transfer the power from unit to pole/mast (Through Wires) to where you are going to use that power.

Again, the alternator provides the slip rings and brushes/brush holder fixture, no added cost...
I pump AC down to the point I'm going to use the power, at my batteries or inverter,
THEN rectify the power to DC.

AC transmits through long runs of wire MUCH better than DC,
So transmit in AC, rectify to DC at the point of use to reduce line losses.

Having the alternator provide so many of your parts makes this much more cost effective,
And it's REALLY not hard to do, mostly just adding the magnets, moving the Rectifier, and rewinding the Stator.

If you can lay hands on two or three old alternators, then take them apart, see how they work, and you will find out for yourself they are pretty simple, reduced to simplest terms by the manufacturers, and stupid simple to work with...

--------------

One thing I will tell you,
The HEIGHT of the tower is everything,
Get as much height as you can.
Getting up and away from ground turbulence into the cleaner, faster air will make a HUGE difference in the production on any unit.

People want to stick them in the shadow of roof lines, below tree lines, ect. then can't figure out why they won't produce...
Turbulent air is no good, you want clean air flow.


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

The video above is showing 'Part 2' ...
It doesn't show taking that old Delco Remy 10 SI car alternator apart and showing it as it comes off the vehicle.

I suggest you go to 'You Tube' and see part 1.

The Delco Remy 10 SI alternator is very old, used for 30 odd years on all GM products, so it's EVERYWHERE for cheap if you want to experiment...
Keep in mind that this unit either has very small roller bearings...

It's also probably the most common, but least efficient of the alternator conversions.
Like I said, the Industrial/Commercial.

They also show the RECTIFIER left in the case, so this unit produces in DC.

I would be more efficient to remove that rectifier, conduct the output in AC to your point of use (3 wires),
And THEN rectify the AC to DC.
This takes 3 wires from generator to point of use (instead of 2 with DC), but it reduces wire size, and it reduces line losses.


----------



## Bottleneck (Apr 22, 2014)

http://www.windbluepower.com/ that i mentioned earlier, sells all the parts to build one of the delco remy's into a PMA. you can buy parts individually or buy an entire kit.

if you don't mind lower power, both kubota's and most motorcycles use PMA's


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Most 'Lawn Mower' type engines use PMA, Magnet in the flywheel that passes a Stator,
Then voltage Rectifier to convert AC pulse to DC,
And a capacitor to smooth out the pulses.

VERY COMMON, not hard to duplicate.

These are NOT voltage regulated, although the rectifier is often referred to as a 'Voltage Regulator', it's just a rectifier.

--------------------------------------

The 'Wind Blue Power' link above,
Take a look at the ROTOR,
This is simply the factory 'Magnetic Pole' halves, with a single high output permanent magnet inserted, and the factory pole half put back on.

This is what I started with, ONE magnet in between the two pole halves,
Each 'Leaf' or 'Finger' on the pole half ends is either 'North' or 'South', alternating.
(Why they call it an 'Alternator', alternating poles...)

My second try was to use high output magnets, about the size of a coin,
Milled a round hole in the pole leaves, and inserted the magnets directly in the 'Leaves'.
Paying attention to getting all the 'North' and 'South' facing the correct directions...

My third generation looked somewhat like the 'You Tube' rotor, 
Magnets (Paying attention to pole polarity) on the OUTSIDE of a laminated rotor.
Tried a one piece rotor, lamination worked MUCH better and produced an intensified magnetic field, which produced more current from the stator.

I'm working with VERY LITTLE wind, so efficiency and production is the name of the game,
I was willing to try ANYTHING that would increase efficiency.
Efficiency is the reason I moved the Rectifier from the case to point of use,
Rectification in the case lead to higher losses,
Transmitting production in AC to point of use,
THEN connecting the rectifier and using the DC from the rectifier was more efficient.

-----------------------------------

VOLTAGE REGULATED Alternators will use an Electro Magnet on the rotor,
Voltage Regulator controls the voltage to that electro-magnet on the rotor,
Which controls output from the stator...

With a wind generator, Especially a small conversion generator,
You won't run a regulator, so permanent magnet rotor is the way to go.
You want it to put out MAXIMUM output at all times,
Normally using a tail to 'Yaw' the generator blades out of the wind at around 30 to 35 MPH,
Sometimes less if you don't have a very strong mast that lets the generator wobble around at higher speed...

(Again, back around to the best mast you can afford to install)

With a LONGER CASE Industrial Alternator, you can install TWO rotors and TWO Stators, double your production (IF you have the wind) while only investing in one mount, one mast, one of everything else, all the support equipment is done ONCE, while the rotors/stators are doubled, and output is doubled...

The single stator/rotor 10 SI (or I'd hunt down a 12 SI, better rectifier, more case cooling, and better bearings) if I were going to do a small unit for testing like this...
The rotor/stator are the same size, so the upgraded equipment shown will still fit right in,
The 12 SI case was more for things like fork trucks, farm trucks, ect. that would be running more than a 'Car' would, so it's built a little better.
Still uses the same internal arrangement, and still comes with rectifier you will reuse like in the video.


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Quote from the web site explaining what I've been trying to tell you about production and transmission in AC,
Then rectifying to DC at point of use...



> All WindBlue DC-520 and DC-540 Alternators are equipped with a 3-phase External Rectifier Output pigtail. This small black connector on the back of the unit allows you to run less costly 3-conductor wire to your battery location instead of large heavy battery cables. Once at the battery location the 3-phase power is fed into an External Rectifier(sold separately) and converted to DC for connection to the battery.


What this DOES NOT tell you is you need 'Slip Rings' to allow the wind generator to rotate on the pole as wind changes directions...
It's easy enough to swipe the slip rings off the 'Car' alternator and use the two,
But you will need THREE to conduct the 3 phases in AC to your point of use.


----------



## Bottleneck (Apr 22, 2014)

Are you referring to something like a semi, aircraft or HMMWV when you refer to an industrial alternator? (Although the latter is 24v)


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Voltage doesn't matter since you aren't using the voltage regulator...

What you are producing is 'WATTS',
Watts can be split into volts & amps any way you like,
As amperage demand goes UP,
Voltage will drop...

I'm talking about 'Semi' (Big Truck), earth moving equipment, or even a Hummer.
The split 24 Volt hummer alternator isn't the best idea, but if you intend to rewind the Stator with smaller gauge wire it doesn't matter, it will work fine.

This isn't a hard deal here, it's the MOST basic electrical principal going on,
Electro-Magnetic Induction.

When an electrical current travels thorugh a conductor (Wire in most cases),
That movement produces a MAGNETIC FIELD.
That's how you make a simple electro-magnet.
Just wind (insulated) wire around a metal core, nail or bolt, apply battey power to the wire, and the nail becomes a magnet.

The coils around the core bolt, or 'Turns' of wire simply amplify the magnetic field that moving electrical current produce, and the center bolt or nail FOCUS that magnetic field into something useful.

When you disconnect the battery, the bolt/nail is no longer a magnet.

------

We are dealing with the OPPSITE side of that equation,

Anytime a MAGNETIC FIELD PASSES THROUGH A CONDUCTOR,
AN ELECTRICAL CURRENT IS PRODUCED.

Take a (stronger the better) magnet, take that same wrap/coil of wire,
Connect your volt meter to the coil, NO BATTERY,
And MOVE THE MAGNET back and forth along, or inside the wire coil,
You WILL produce an electric current.

It's the electro-magnetic link and the basis for all electrical production...

(Batteries do NOT 'PRODUCE' electrical power, they STORE electrical power in the form of chemical energy... 
LIGHTENING does NOT produce electrical power, it's discharging electrical potential that's already existing... 
Before that argument gets started...)

The 'Rotor' in a vehicle alternator is the magnet, an electro magnet.
The 'Regulator' adds or lessons the power to the magnet, making the magnetic field stronger or weaker,
To control output of the alternator.
On a DC generator, you would call this the 'Field', short for 'Magnetic Field'.

The 'Stator' is the windings of wire the magnetic field passes through to INDUCE an electrical current.
It's wired directly to the 'Rectifier' Output, so there is no 'Regulation' going on,
The Stator produces at 100% the potential of the Magnetic Field all the time.
Weak magnetic field, weak output from the Stator,
Strong magnetic field, strong output from the Stator.

When you switch to Permanent Magnet, the stronger the magnetic field, and the faster the poles flip North/South, the more output from the Stator.

Until just the past 30 years or so, 'Natural' or 'Rare Earth' magnets were considered a 'National Defense' requirement, and were hard to get hold of,
But with the man made mass production of these 'Rare Earth' magnets, not so much anymore.
When they were controlled, we had to deal with much less powerful Ceramic Ferrite magnets, which SUCK for this application...

When I started with this crap in the early 70s, I had to gut those giant hard drives for the smallest rare earth magnets,
Otherwise I was stuck with the magnets I could swipe from speakers, direct drive motors, like lawn mower starters, ect.
They just didn't produce the magnetic fields that made things work well...

----------------------

Electro-Magnetic Link Production,

You can spin the magnet, 
Or you can spin the wire coils.

The reason we don't use DC 'Generators' any more is because you can only spin copper so fast before it deflects, and cuts itself off on the Armature frame spinning in the center of the magnetic field.

Simple brushes/Commutator 'Rectified' the current, it was still AC, but the commutator/brushes cut off the negative pulse, 
Effectively reducing your output by half...

Then along came DIODES (Solid State Semi-Conductor), a one way electrical gate valve,
Only lets HALF of the positive/negative pulse through,
So all POSITIVES go one direction, all the NEGATIVES go another direction,
You take advantage of both sides of the generated pulse.

This also allowed you to spin the MAGNET, instead of the Stator, so you could pack in more windings, smaller wire without it breaking.

The magnet used 'Slip Rings' instead of a commutator, so you didn't throw all those little copper wedges making up the commutator out of their non-conductive resin when the unit speeded up.

A MUCH better solution, and seriously simplified the building, reducing costs.
Most guys aren't old enough to remember 'Generator Men', they were like 'Automatic Transmission Men' are today, 
What they did was in par with voodoo since most folks didn't understand it...

---------------------

SO,
The RECTIFIER is 6 diodes, 3 Positive, 3 Negative,
There are 3 winding runs in the stator that make up the 3 phases,
The three phases, or positive/negative pulses hit the rectifier, and positive goes one way,
Negative goes another, you get DC, but it's still pulsing...

A Capacitor, a sort of momentary electrical storage device,
Smooths out the ripples from these very fast pulses, 
And the unit produces true, flat DC... 

--------

What I do is simple and straight forward,
I simply put TWO MAGNET SETS on the shaft,
Then bolt in an extra STATOR SET for the second magnet set.

This gives me DOUBLE the output since there are TWO stators producing current.

Since I DO NOT use some exotic parts, the bolt holes, case sizes, ect. all line right up,
Most of the time all you need is a spacer and longer bolts, depending on what alternator you start with...

A good front bearing is always a nessitity, 
Your blade hub & blades can be quite heavy, but probably on par with the belt load if it were installed in the vehicle,
What it's going to get up on that pole/mast is a LOT more water than it would under a hood...

So a good front bearing, a SEALED BEARING will keep you from taking that darn thing down and checking/replacing bearings all the time.

The blades are going to be PUSHING BACKWARDS on the shaft,
And a larger, heavy duty bearing will take that end loading better.
Normal 'Alternator' bearings see very little end loading, so they can actually be smaller/weaker on the end loading part of things.

I built a VERY LARGE, over 16 foot swept blade area unit a few years ago,
We kept wiping out bearings from thrust.
I finally broke down and put in car wheel bearing that took the thrust in stride,
And use roller thrust limiter in the back of the case to alert the owner when the front bearing failed...
4 rotors/Stators on that one, you could weld off it when the wind reached about 20 MPH...

I'm NOT going to do that again! TOO MUCH CUSTOM MACHINE WORK!

The last 'Big' one I did, we started out with a 4 wheel drive front spindle/hub from the get-go!
Hollow spindle, so once the thrust was handled by the spindle/wheel bearing sets (yes, TWO wheel bearings) the generator was free to do what it does without thrust from the hub/blades.
That one was over 24 feet swept area.

ALWAYS better to find a way to use EXISTING PARTS!
That's why with these little bitty Delco Remy 10 & 12 SI units, I recommend not getting to wild,
Recycle the Rectifier, the slip rings, anything else you can to reduce cost and work, and especially CUSTOM PARTS!


----------

