# Go Ahead, Flame Away. Did YOU Know...



## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

OK. I am a pretty slick chick, pivate school and well educated, very open and curious to learn new things, will lose entire months to one obsession or the other, read ad learn all I can, and move on. But NEVER had I EVER been taught this little snippet...and I am sure everyone in the world but me knew this...

In all the reading, research whatever I have done regarding WWII, I never ever EVER even HEARD that...

WE (the United States) rounded up Japanese Americans as surely as Hitler rounded up the Jews, and detained them in "reservation" type scenarios. We took everything from them and took them from their homes and kept them in "camps." Admittedly,we DID keep them together as families...but in one room bunkers?? And told them they could only take one bag of belongings with them? A race that values their pride and solitude, and we force them into public bathrooms wih no walls seperating the toilets?!

I am stunned. Am I the only one in the world who didn't know this??? Any references made went right over my head, I guess.

If anyone else dosn't know this dark tidbit in our history, feel free to look it up. And get sick to your stomach as I did. And THEN let's talk about racism and what race we owe what to, shall we?

I have since day 1 here on GC been the first to admit when I am wrong, or when I simply do not know. And this one, I did not know. Period.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Yuppers - internment camps here in Arizona...A sad time in our history. 

I won't even address the fact you were not taught that part of US history.....


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Wolf Mom, I am pretty stunned, too. And ashamed. But there might be OTHERS who do not know, as well. And we NEED to know this.


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

I am surprised you didn't know - it isn't like it was secret. In 1988 Ronald Reagan issued an official apology and reparations of $1.6 billion were paid out to the families (though I personally know some who would not accept it).


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Wolf mom said:


> Yuppers - internment camps here in Arizona...A sad time in our history.
> 
> I won't even address the fact you were not taught that part of US history.....


Had some camps here in Arkansas too.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

Dig more and you will find a lot of 'dark' tidbits in our history.

Our nation has abused, tortured, imprisoned, and slaughtered, innocent people throughout its history and even today.

But what do you expect, this nation was founded with blood, not roses and smiles.

And out of all the nations in the world we are the 'only' ones to have ever used a nuclear weapon. Leave it to us to be the first to try it.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

The ultimate irony is that many of their sons joined the army and served with great distinction. I believe that a Japanese/American unit serving in Italy received more commendations for a unit that size than any other American unit in the entire war. At least one of it's members earned the CMH.

Of course some folks would do the same thing to Arab-Americans today.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Tinknal, that is what I was given to understand...while we had some imprisoned over here, an entire platoon ran into the fray to save a Texas platoon.

Mistletoad, I read about that apology and the money...in 1988 I was three years out of HS and had no real head for politics. Now I am blindsided.


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## Yldrosie (Jan 28, 2006)

Did you know, that there actually WERE japanese spies here. And there were japanese submarines off the coast of CA, and people were scared to death it would be another Pearl Harbor. Enough apoligizing for WW2. We weren't there,most of us, and don't understand what was going on. Most of that history has been re-written for the PC generation.


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## FeralFemale (Apr 10, 2006)

I honestly can't believe you didn't know that.

Hindsight is 20/20. Yes, it was a horrible thing to do. However, there is proof that Japanese spies lived and/or visited Hawaii, taking pics -- pretending to be sight seers -- of Hawaiin targets. (saw it on a history channel type show about Pearl Harbor/WWII, so take it with a grain of salt)

Was the internment overkill? Yes, totally. But it also was a no holds barred attempt at protecting our shores from enemy attack. It wouldn't fly, now, nor should it. But taken as a whole, with the disgusting internment camps and the japanese spies, it also shows the need to be cautiously vigilent -- i.e., acknowledging that we could have enemies of a certain nationality within our borders while at the same time not tying our hands with PC and ignoring common sense.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

I am surprised that you never learned this. I always thought that it was common knowledge. However, the truth is that tere is a lot of US History that is not included in most textbooks.

Ronald Reagan approved 1.6 billion dollars in reparations to the survivors and decendants of those interred in those camps. The fact that reparations were paid to Japanese Americans for their suffering is a sore point with many African Americans because the US government reneged on the payment of reparations to former slaves and their decendants.


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

tinknal said:


> I believe that a Japanese/American unit serving in Italy received more commendations for a unit that size than any other American unit in the entire war. At least one of it's members earned the CMH.


You're right. The 442nd Regimental Combat Team. A soldier the 100th Infantry Battalion was posthumously awarded the CMH during the war. Twenty other soldiers from the 442nd who were awarded the Distinguished Service Cross had their awards upgraded to the CMH after review years later.


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

I wonder how much isn't being taught to our youth today? I bet that a whole generation doesn't know about the Japanese Internment camps.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

FeralFemale said:


> I honestly can't believe you didn't know that.
> 
> Hindsight is 20/20. Yes, it was a horrible thing to do. However, there is proof that Japanese spies lived and/or visited Hawaii, taking pics -- pretending to be sight seers -- of Hawaiin targets. (saw it on a history channel type show about Pearl Harbor/WWII, so take it with a grain of salt)
> 
> Was the internment overkill? Yes, totally. But it also was a no holds barred attempt at protecting our shores from enemy attack. It wouldn't fly, now, nor should it. But taken as a whole, with the disgusting internment camps and the japanese spies, it also shows the need to be cautiously vigilent -- i.e., acknowledging that we could have enemies of a certain nationality within our borders while at the same time not tying our hands with PC and ignoring common sense.


Very well written post. 

I also was digging into Japanese prison camps and camp 731. No angels there, either.

Just when I think the human race cannot sink any lower, I am proven wrong.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

TheMartianChick said:


> I am surprised that you never learned this. I always thought that it was common knowledge. However, the truth is that tere is a lot of US History that is not included in most textbooks.
> 
> Ronald Reagan approved 1.6 billion dollars in reparations to the survivors and decendants of those interred in those camps. The fact that reparations were paid to Japanese Americans for their suffering is a sore point with many African Americans because the US government reneged on the payment of reparations to former slaves and their decendants.


Hmmm...I bet it is. I admit it DOES give another facet to the whole argument.


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## Gregg Alexander (Feb 18, 2007)

An I am still waiting on the $ the dang Brits own my ancestors, don't hold your breath. 
Still waiting on the $ the Yankee gov owes to my ancestors for stealing land, livestock, homes during Reconstruction , don't hold your breath


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## FeralFemale (Apr 10, 2006)

TheMartianChick said:


> I am surprised that you never learned this. I always thought that it was common knowledge. However, the truth is that tere is a lot of US History that is not included in most textbooks.
> 
> Ronald Reagan approved 1.6 billion dollars in reparations to the survivors and decendants of those interred in those camps. The fact that reparations were paid to Japanese Americans for their suffering is a sore point with many African Americans because the US government reneged on the payment of reparations to former slaves and their decendants.


But those reparations were made to people who actually suffered the offense. AA reparations would mean paying people who are generations removed. 

We do have a form of reparations in affirmative action and other programs that promote the advancement and support of minorities. We can't possibly make up for slavery, but, today, we can help those whose lives are still being affected by it.

However, one day, and that day is coming very quickly, those programs will have to end. How many years after Civil Rights do we say that AAs still stuggle because of the handicap of enslavement and prejudice? Eventually, we'll have to admit that the same programs that gave a hand up and an even playing field to so many are now playing a role in keeping them down.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

I'm not a big television watcher, but in our house we have been watching a lot of the History Channel. A common refrain heard in our house is, "Why don't they teach history in our schools the way that the History Channel presents it." It is far more interesting, than a dry history textbook and they are able to add a level of "personal" detail by including the letter written by people who actually lived through historical events.


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

I think another thing that gives this issue a more stark contrast to the PC generation is the difference in the type of warfare the United States has waged since and including Viet Nam. World War II was total war.....TOTAL war. Our survival as a nation depended upon it and we won our present day existance by the effort. The concept is alien to us now, but back then the entire nation was personally involved and no family was left untouched by adversity or difficulties. 

We lived under a nuclear umbrella for many years since that war and it kept the wolves at bay for a long while. The new generation knows little or nothing about the impact of the sacrafices that generation made to secure America. I doubt the present generation would now choose such an all out effort by every able bodied person to preserve it. Those Japanese families in the internment camps served this country just as surely as any combat veteran.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

I lived in a house for 5 years that was moved from a southern Idaho Japanese internment camp. Nice warm house.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

America isn't the only country that had Japanese Internment Camps. We had them here in British Columbia too, they were collected up from right across Canada and sent to BC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Canadian_internment


In addition to the Japanese in America, there were other groups too. 
While Japanese-Americans comprised the overwhelming majority of those in the camps, thousands of Americans of *German, Italian*, and *other European descent* were also forced to relocate there. Many more were classified as "enemy aliens" and subject to increased restrictions.

.


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

The 442nd RCT became the most decorated unit in U.S. military history for its size and length of service, with its component 100th Infantry Battalion earning the nickname âThe Purple Heart Battalionâ. The 442nd RCT received 7 Presidential Unit Citations (5 earned in one month), and its members received 18,143 awards, including:

* 21 Medals of Honor 
* 52 Distinguished Service Crosses 
* 1 Distinguished Service Medal
* 560 Silver Stars (plus 28 Oak Leaf Clusters for a second award)
* 22 Legion of Merit Medals
* 15 Soldierâs Medals
* 4,000 Bronze Stars (plus 1,200 Oak Leaf Clusters for a second award; 
* 9,486 Purple Hearts
The Nisei of the 442nd RCT served with great distinction even though their Uncle Sam was a real b------.

There is an old movie starring Van Johnson and Henry Nakamura that is well worth watching, Go For Broke tells the story of the 442nd RCT.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

We're not apologizing for the act, but it's important to know our history so we may prevent it from happening again.

Here's some other facts you might not know about the Japanese internment:

*1. It was the Census bureau who helped the war department identify citizens of Japanese descent.*

From http://www.seattlepi.com/national/cens17.shtml

"The academics say the Census Bureau's involvement included identifying concentrations of people of Japanese ancestry in geographic units as small as city blocks, lending a senior Census Bureau official to work with the War Department on the relocation program and a willingness to disclose names and address of Japanese Americans."

*2. Japanese properties and farms were taken by force from them and redistributed to other American citizens. Very few got their land back.*

http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist8/land2.html

"Jap Farmland Is Transferred," The San Francisco News, April 3, 1942.

"Nearly one-third of the Japanese farm lands on the Pacific Coast have been transferred to new operators under the supervision of the Farm Security Administration, L.I. Hewes, regional director, announced today. 

More than 1000 Japanese farms, totaling 50,000 acres, were transferred during March, Mr. Hewes said. FSA field agents have registered 6000 farms totaling approximately 200,000 acres and have received applications to acquire vacated farms from more than 2000 farmers ."

*3. The Japanese exclusion areas were supported by the Supreme Court in 1944 but then were later rescinded in 1945.*

*4. Prisoners held in the detention camps were given $25 and a bus ticket home. Many were unable to prove they had previously owned property or that they had been forced to sell it at an extreme loss when they were rounded up. This was due to the IRS destruction of tax records from that time period.*


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Those are some sobering statistics, Ernie.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

I suppose youve never heard of the WWI vets that General McAurthur forced out of washington either . Or federal troops used to force miner back into the mines .
then of course you have japanese mini subs in the mississippi river .
Germans sinking ships along the eastern sea board. 
and lets not for get Churhill ordering british ships to fire on the french navy .


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

TheMartianChick said:


> Those are some sobering statistics, Ernie.


Indeed. 

People need to get a clue.

This isn't about right versus left or liberal versus conservative. It's a fight for freedom against those who want government tyranny, and those who want individual freedom.


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

> I suppose youve never heard of the WWI vets that General McAurthur forced out of washington either . PyroDon


Dugout Doug MacArthur was in command, "I like Ike" Eisenhower was the Army liaison with the Washington DC police, Georgie Patton was in command of the Cavalry. The troops were ordered to fix bayonets and proceeded to drive the Bonus Army Vets before them away from the capitol. When the day was over the Bonus Army encampment was burned, two babies were dead and the local hospitals were overrun with casualties. 
The treatment of veterans has not improved a lot since.


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## Prickle (May 9, 2009)

There's a book called _Farewell to Manzanar_ written by an American born Japanese woman about her family's experience in the camps. There was a TV movie made from the book too, in the late 70's / early 80's.

http://shorl.com/briboprifestodry


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

It was glossed over in prep school, and I followed up. A sad time in our history. I'm sure my kids will never hear about it at school, but the history books we have (old and new) will be available for them, should they be interested.
Matt


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

RiverPines said:


> Dig more and you will find a lot of 'dark' tidbits in our history.
> And out of all the nations in the world we are the 'only' ones to have ever used a nuclear weapon. Leave it to us to be the first to try it.


As far as I know RiverPines we have used an Atomic Bomb on Japan, not a nuclear bomb. Big difference if you think about it, still bad but when they bombed Pearl Harbor, they opened up a hornets nest. You should expect to get stung. > Thanks Marc


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

> As far as I know RiverPines we have used an Atomic Bomb on Japan, not a nuclear bomb. Big difference springvalley


nuclear bomb
an atomic bomb or a hydrogen bomb

A hydrogen bomb is considerably more powerful than an atomic bomb, perhaps that is the differentiation you are trying to make.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Wow, when did being a "self loathing" American, replace baseball, as America's favorite pastime?

How hard it is to believe, that as a great country, we are indeed not a perfect country? We have made mistakes, some quite large. Many did or do not have an easy fix.

My country makes mistakes, but I am _*never*_ ashamed of it.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

RiverPines said:


> And out of all the nations in the world we are the 'only' ones to have ever used a nuclear weapon. *Leave it to us to be the first to try it*.


What would have been your solution?

Japan was 100% focused on having every man, woman an child fight or resist, to the death. 

Would thousands and thousands more Allied casualities, from conventional warefare, have been a better option? More Japanese would have been dead in the end anyway.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

plowjockey said:


> Wow, when did being a "self loathing" American, replace baseball, as America's favorite pastime?
> 
> How hard it is to believe, that as a great country, we are indeed not a perfect country? We have made mistakes, some quite large. Many did or do not have an easy fix.
> 
> My country makes mistakes, but I am _*never*_ ashamed of it.


All your chest thumping does America a great disservice.

You are not required to be ashamed of it. It (likely) happened before you were even born. 

You ARE required to be vigilant against it happening again. Knowing the truth, and discussing the truth, is the cost of such vigilance.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

Roadking said:


> It was glossed over in prep school, and I followed up. A sad time in our history. I'm sure my kids will never hear about it at school, but the history books we have (old and new) will be available for them, should they be interested.
> Matt


It might be a mutual thing. From what I've heard Japan doesn't teach about the Bombing of Pearl Harbor in their history books either. It's an embarrasing bit of history they don't want to remember. 

So I guess if your the government and you don't want your people know how rude and crude your country has been, then you omit things from history books. The U.S. has always been real good about it.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

Ernie said:


> All your chest thumping does America a great disservice.
> 
> You are not required to be ashamed of it. It (likely) happened before you were even born.
> 
> You ARE required to be vigilant against it happening again. Knowing the truth, and discussing the truth, is the cost of such vigilance.


Credit where Credit is Due 

This is by far the he best post Ive seen you make :rock:


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

I could discuss this topic for hours with someone.

On one hand, it was an awful time in our nation's history.

While offensive enough to detain people because of their race, I feel like the real crimes are never mentioned. For instance, when these people were rounded up, they were generally forced to liquidate nearly all of their possessions. For instance, many people sold very valuable items for pennies on the dollar. The Army, facing a truck shortage, laid claims to the trucks that the Nisei owned and used on their successful truck farm operations. Entire farms were sold for next to nothing. The stories about these people losing everything they owned and had worked for fifty years, was gone forever in a few short weeks.

On the other hand, there were documented Japanese spies working in the US, and blended in with the Nisei population. I can't site any real cases, but have read several accounts of Japanese spy and terrorist plots being thwarted.

Don't forget, at that time, there was a serious concern that the Japanese would invade the US mainland. This was a VERY serious concern on the west coast. After Pearl Harbor, people literally took up arms and stood watch on the beaches of California. There was also concern that the Japs would bomb the west coast. One factory built a fake city on its massive flat roof, and even had people change the clothes hanging out on fake clothes lines. Someone also built a fake B-24 bomber, out of wood, to serve as a decoy to Japanese bombers.

Try to imagine the hysteria and the concern on the west coast at the time, and try to understand the mentality of the day.

It would be easy to hate the Japanese after Pearl Harbor, especially since they had different colored skin.

On the other hand, I am getting VERY sick of revisionist history. Yes, we need to know that this is an episode in our nation's past. It is getting blown *way out of proportion*!!! 

It is one thing to document and tell the story of internment camps, but another thing for a stupid 26 year old writer to build absolute hype and trash into a news story just so it gets noticed. Or the over-the-top-writer that is so PC that they refuse to look into factual history. It is just too easy to sell a story or book that is full of emotion and sheer rubbish.

IMO, there is a difference between concentration camps and internment camps.

Our nation did not operate mass killing of any race. We did not force anyone into slavery, as did Nazi Germany. We did not exterminate the populations of entire towns, villages or cities. We did not operate gas chambers. We did not methodically starve people to death, or torture them.

If you want to read some disturbing stuff, there was a book about a group of German policemen that were used to mass murder Jews. Absolutely sickening. The book Arms of Krupp details how Krupp Steel tortured enslaved Jews who refused to work. (This is a cruelty is beyond my understanding, and is forever burned into my memory. I didn't know that any person on earth could be that mean to another human.) And lastly, read up on how the Japanese treated our captured soldiers, or how they treated people in the areas they conquered. Totally unbelievable. 

Nonetheless, forcing the Japanese into internment camps was a very sad time in our history. 

Okay, I'm off my soap box.


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## wwubben (Oct 13, 2004)

Private schools must not give a well rounded education.This is peanuts compared to what was and is being done to american indians.


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

plowjockey said:


> Wow, when did being a "self loathing" American, replace baseball, as America's favorite pastime?
> 
> How hard it is to believe, that as a great country, we are indeed not a perfect country? We have made mistakes, some quite large. Many did or do not have an easy fix.
> 
> My country makes mistakes, but I am _*never*_ ashamed of it.



Here, here! Except the "not ashamed part". I'm pretty disgusted and ashamed that there were enough tripping over themselves in an attempt to be politically correct that we ended up with BO as the president. I'm ashamed at the attempt to turn this country into a socialist one.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

The interment camps are just another example of what happens when a Democrat thinks your the enemy.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Another thing to add to the list of shameful things America has done is the way the country treated the soldiers we(as a country) sent to fight in Vietnam. The war turned into an unpopular war, and we ended up betraying our allies in South Vietnam. Then we(again, as a country) treated the soldiers we sent over there to fight as if they were responsible for the country's mistake. Fortunately, some people have learned from that mistake, but many people seem ready and willing to repeat it.:awh:
Just because our country has done some shameful things doesn't mean we need to hate the country.
BTW, for anybody who saw the Karate Kid movies, there was a reference in the movie to the internment camps and to the 442nd.


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## dezingg (Feb 25, 2010)

springvalley said;
"... used an Atomic Bomb on Japan, not a nuclear bomb. Big difference if you think about it, ..."

Huh? I guess that I'm exposing my ignorance. Radioactive blast, radiation and radioactive fallout. How different is that from a nuclear weapon? Sure, I know that we have much stronger weapons now and unique weapons like a neutron bomb. I'm still missing the distinction between the two types.

edited text:
"Thanks bjba, that clarifies the statement. I'm fairly certain that hydrogen bombs hadn't been invented yet. My impression was that the atomic bombs we used in Japan were a real rush job. We didn't have a large inventory of atomic bombs to pick and choose from."

beccachow ... Awareness is easier if it happens locally. Some nice farms around here were originally owned by Japanese-Americans. They never got them back. 

Also, not more than 65 miles from my place, a WWII oil tanker was sunk by a Japanese sub. They're still trying to figure out what to do with the sunk tanker and fear that it may start leaking oil.


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

RiverPines said:


> And out of all the nations in the world we are the 'only' ones to have ever used a nuclear weapon. Leave it to us to be the first to try it.


Yes, we are the only country to have used them. Yes, we were the 'first to try it'. We're not, however the only country that wanted to use them. Germany was working on their own bomb when they were defeated. As were the Japanese. Some have said that the Japanese were mere days from having their own operational bomb. There's not a whole lot of doubt that either one of them would have used them if they had been successful in their attempts to create them.

The results of dropping the bombs on Hirosima and Nagasaki are horrific. But, the casulty estimates for Operation Downfall (the planned invasion of Japan) are even more horrific. It was predicted that well over a million American soldiers, sailors, airman and Marines would have become casulties. Plus at least 10 million Japanese military and civillian casulties. Using those 2 bombs almost certainly saved millions of lives.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

How many here know what diesel therapy is?

Pray it doesnât happen to you.

Dave


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

FourDeuce said:


> Had some camps here in Arkansas too.


We had German camps, too, here in AR. My grandmother (German immigrant) translated the German prisoners' mail for the govt... incoming and outgoing.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

mistletoad said:


> I am surprised you didn't know - it isn't like it was secret. In 1988 Ronald Reagan issued an official apology and reparations of $1.6 billion were paid out to the families (though I personally know some who would not accept it).


Well, its possible that our Becca wasn't born yet...'88.
Bet that's not taught in schools anymore too.
I really can't remember if it was actually in history books or if we were taught that by teachers, just in discussing war times.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

beccachow said:


> Tinknal, that is what I was given to understand...while we had some imprisoned over here, an entire platoon ran into the fray to save a Texas platoon.
> 
> Mistletoad, I read about that apology and the money...in 1988 I was three years out of HS and had no real head for politics. Now I am blindsided.


Wow-sorry Becc, you ARE old.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

> Wow, when did being a "self loathing" American, replace baseball, as America's favorite pastime?
> How hard it is to believe, that as a great country, we are indeed not a perfect country? We have made mistakes, some quite large. Many did or do not have an easy fix.
> 
> My country makes mistakes, but I am _*never*_ ashamed of it.


If human beings are involved, mistakes will be made.
My gf has a nanny. Sweet precious kid. She is 19.
She was over one day, and the kids history books were out (home schooled, Abeka books) and it was talking about Hitler.
The nanny, is German.
She gets a big frown on her face and says "no one knows all the good that Germany has done, only the evil of one man".
Wow. 

Humans are wrecked by sin. If they are not led by the Spirit of the Lord, they are led by the adversary. Therefore making horrible decisions.
Yes, there were 'bad things' that happened in our past.
Yes, they were horrible.
But that is in our past. We should 'learn from the past' so we do not repeat them in the future. It's called learning. Unfortunately, without a Moral Compass, we will not only repeat, I fear, we will make more horrible decisions.
If you want to play the compare game, look at the atrocities in any country. Some are "in your face' and some are hidden. But they all have them. 

Non the less..........I love my country. I would live no where else on this planet.
I would fight for her. But I will not bad mouth her or feel 'guilty' for things I did not do.

What if I am a school teacher, and an innocent child comes into my 2nd grade classroom and sits down. Upon learning her name, I find out she is the GRANDDAUGHTER of a woman who 'stole my boyfriend' some 40 years earlier.
Am I going to punish this child from something her grandma did?
40 years earlier?
Am I going to hate this child, treat her poorly, talk to her maliciously, single her out, make jokes about her, blame her?
Well heavens no.
Unless I am a hatin' fool.
And that is what all this "oh mean America" is all about. Hating. Instead of looking at something and saying "wow that was a bad idea, note to self, don't do that" we have to moan, and hate and talk ugly, and apologize and apologize.......Knock it off already. Learn from it and move on.......

My family immigrated here, through Ellis Island, after the slaves had been freed. 
So my family were never slave owners. 
My family has never killed a Native American.
My family didn't round up anyone Japanese. My parents were under 5 years of age.

However, my great Uncle died on the USS Indianapolis serving his country.
My other Uncle served his country in Viet Nam. 2 tours in the jungle. US Army.
My other Uncle served his country in the Navy.
My father served his country in Korea, in the Army.
My cousin served his country in Desert Storm, in the Army.

God Bless America!


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

naturelover said:


> America isn't the only country that had Japanese Internment Camps. We had them here in British Columbia too, they were collected up from right across Canada and sent to BC.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Canadian_internment
> 
> 
> ...


NL-thanks so much for this info-I'll admit to NOT knowing this!

Patty


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

> Another thing to add to the list of shameful things America has done is the way the country treated the soldiers we(as a country) sent to fight in Vietnam. The war turned into an unpopular war, and we ended up betraying our allies in South Vietnam.


Amen bro. Now let's give a rousing round of applause to Mr. John Kerry.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Murray in ME said:


> The results of dropping the bombs on Hirosima and Nagasaki are horrific. But, the casulty *estimates for Operation Downfall (the planned invasion of Japan) are even more horrific.* It was predicted that well over a million American soldiers, sailors, airman and Marines would have become casulties. Plus at least 10 million Japanese military and civillian casulties. Using those 2 bombs almost certainly saved millions of lives.


Not to mention helping all the other Allied forces that were already fighting in WW2 before the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour and got America involved. Operation Downfall would have ended up with uncountable casualties for all the Allied forces as well as American forces. Many more lives from around the world were saved because those bombs were dropped and ended the war. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

_"....... *Operation Downfall* was the overall Allied plan for the invasion of Japan near the end of World War II. The operation was canceled when Japan surrendered after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the Soviet Union's declaration of war against Japan....._

_Operation Downfall had two parts: Operation Olympic and Operation Coronet. This invasion plan was obvious to the Japanese as well; they were able to predict accurately the Allied invasion plans and accordingly adjust their defensive plan, Operation Ketsug&#333;. The Japanese planned an all-out defense.... _

_Casualty predictions varied widely but were extremely high for both sides: depending on the degree to which Japanese civilians resisted the invasion, estimates ran into the millions for Allied casualties and tens of millions for Japanese casualties."_

_._


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> But that is in our past. We should 'learn from the past' so we do not repeat them in the future. It's called learning. Unfortunately, without a Moral Compass, we will not only repeat, I fear, we will make more horrible decisions.


The only problem with your theory is that the people who made the decision to detain these Japanese-Americans mostly likely were Christians, equipped with your so-called "moral compass," as were many of the players in this sad chapter of human history.

I'll leave aside the question as to whether Hitler and his henchmen were Christians, as that is the subject of some controversy. However, many professed Christians -- priests, pastors, theologians, etc. -- were enthusiastic supporters of the Nazi regime. Today we tend to remember Niemoller and Bonhoffer, while glossing over fellows like Kittel, Althaus and Hirsch.

In any case, Christians --supposed "brothers in Christ" -- fought on both sides of WWII in the European theater and killed each other quite exuberantly, didn't they? 

So much for the notion of a "moral compass"!


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## Guest (May 18, 2010)

Christian bashing at 9:00 in the morning. LOL..


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## marvella (Oct 12, 2003)

RiverPines said:


> Dig more and you will find a lot of 'dark' tidbits in our history.
> 
> Our nation has abused, tortured, imprisoned, and slaughtered, innocent people throughout its history and even today.
> 
> ...


i agree. our history is not near as proud as most of us have been taught.

it was "settled" by a group of paranoid religionists running from "persecution" who proceeded to persecute (and exterminate) the native people they met in the "new world."

this country has accomplished amazing things but there are quite a few incidents that would clearly come under the heading of human rights abuses we are so angry about in other countries. many of them have been corrected to an extent in the last several decades but our past isn't always something to brag about.

eta; not knowing someting isn't something to be ashamed of. you can't know what you don't know.


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## Guest (May 18, 2010)

To the OP: I bet they never taught the Tuskegee experiment in school either. A little exercise by the Public Health Service(today the US Dept of Health and Human Services).


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## vickiesmom (Feb 25, 2005)

I am shocked that you never encountered this information in school, or at the very least on PBS. When I hear stories like this I am beginning to understand why people deny the Holocaust existed, that slavery existed...it all has been swept under the rug in our schools.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Zong, I am familiar with the Tuskegee experiment. Quite horrific in that it destroyed families and the gov. kept it very quiet. Talk about experimentation on people!

Also familiar with the Japanese internment camps - (ps - my son's private prep school taught this in American History class!), and I learned it during same class in public school back when dinosaurs roamed the earth.

There are many things people are not being taught in history..but if one can get their hands on older history books, it's all there (for now). I know history gets "re-written" about every ten years as things I learned in college back in 81 are not in my son's college history books in 2010.

I keep the older books around just for that reason. People hate to learn the ugly truths about their country (no matter what country it is)..

and yes Germany did do some great things over the years..their engineering skills are awesome and so is their beer (lol).


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

When I was growing up in southwestern Kansas, we would often drive to south central Colorado to a cabin that my grandparents built.

Just west of La Junta, Colo., was a truck farm / produce stand called "Fujimoto's" for the family that owned and operated the farm. They had an Uncle Sam mailbox that I remember.

It wasn't until later that I began to wonder just how a Japanese family ended up in the middle of Colorado.

There were three or four containment camps near Hasty and Holly, Colorado. They are now marked with monuments and an attempt has been made to save what little is left, there.

I don't know how anyone who knows much about American history couldn't have known about the containment camps. German communities in the U.S. also came under scrutiny. Popular German foods were even renamed to make them sound less German.

We, as a nation, don't seem to learn all that much from history. We tend to demonize groups instead of condemning acts of individuals.

But, I canât say that Iâm âashamedâ of how my countrymen have acted in the past. I wasnât there. And, from what Iâve been told about my family history, they fought against many attempts to separate folks into different groups to be oppressed.

History is what it is. Itâs very difficult to see through the same lens, with the same fears and influences, that folks lived at the time.

Rather than being ashamed, I chose to be aware and to speak out against the same sort of trends and prejudices I might see, today.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

JJ Grandits said:


> The interment camps are just another example of what happens when a Democrat thinks your the enemy.



and not to mention that there are quite a few dems that would probably like to see tea party folks put into internment camps... Look it is like this...we have an absolute obligation to look at our history..note the things that were wrong.. and do all we can to never allow it to happen again to *any* group...ever.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Christian bashing at 9:00 in the morning. LOL..


In all fairness, the same criticisms could be leveled at virtually any religion. Certainly, flying planes into buildings filled with innocent civilians indicates a failure of Islam's "moral compass" among the perpetrators of rhose acts. 

The take-away message is that all these religions are mere human constructs, subject to ordinary human failings. None can be trusted to check our species' darkest tendencies. At best, they might discourage bad behavior; at worst, they have been used to justify it. (Remember Pascal? "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction.")


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

zong said:


> Christian bashing at 9:00 in the morning. LOL..


Ah, but it started with this



> If they are not led by the Spirit of the Lord, they are led by the adversary. Therefore making horrible decisions.


All non Christians make horrible decisions? That's a pretty broad bashed group right there.

Also, I don't see Willow's post as bashing Christians, she clearly states that self professed Christians fought on both sides...IMO she's simply pointing out the flaw in the thinking quoted above.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

> And that is what all this "oh mean America" is all about. Hating. Instead of looking at something and saying "wow that was a bad idea, note to self, don't do that" we have to moan, and hate and talk ugly, and apologize and apologize.......Knock it off already. Learn from it and move on.......


What on earth are you talking about? Who here is saying "ohhh mean America?" What I see IS people saying essentially 



> "wow that was a bad idea, note to self, don't do that"


You're awfully reactionary in your defensiveness. In my experience that often seems to indicate a guilty conscience


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Well, I am thankful the flaming isn't as painful as I thought. To the few who might have mistaken my "I am ashamed" comment, I meant that I am ashamed that I didn't know this dark part of our history. Nor did I know (Obviously, huh?) about other races being "stored for safekeeping" until I delved into this. I can only shake my head in disbelief.

Score another point for Homeschooling. And I always prided myself on being pretty well educated compared to others.

And TG, yes...lol...I am ancient. Seen my Geritol??

It makes me wonder...if I didn't learn about this in a small class at a private school, and this was X number of years ago that I was in school, are they teaching it now as a rule? And like another poster stated...what else are they not teaching???

There were german civilians who claimed they had no idea what was going on in the Death Camps right near their communities. I used to scoff at that notion until the past day or so...if you are not exposed to the right information, you can be ignorant of what is going on right under your nose.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

clovis said:


> On the other hand, I am getting VERY sick of revisionist history. Yes, we need to know that this is an episode in our nation's past. It is getting blown way out of proportion!!!
> 
> It is one thing to document and tell the story of internment camps, but another thing for a stupid 26 year old writer to build absolute hype and trash into a news story just so it gets noticed. Or the over-the-top-writer that is so PC that they refuse to look into factual history. It is just too easy to sell a story or book that is full of emotion and sheer rubbish.
> 
> ...


Actually the US committed genocide against the indigenous people, the Native American tribes. Some tribes were completely wiped out and have no decendents. We also forced African Americans into slavery. We just didn't do it during World War II. 

Additionally, the Japanese people who were imprisoned in those camps were often "hired out" by the US government as labor on farms to keep the food production high. I'm not sure if the workers ever received any payment for those services aside for the reparations authorized by Reagan. If they didn't receive payment, then that was slavery.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

willow_girl said:


> In all fairness, the same criticisms could be leveled at virtually any religion. Certainly, flying planes into buildings filled with innocent civilians indicates a failure of Islam's "moral compass" among the perpetrators of rhose acts.
> 
> The take-away message is that all these religions are mere human constructs, subject to ordinary human failings. None can be trusted to check our species' darkest tendencies. At best, they might discourage bad behavior; at worst, they have been used to justify it. (Remember Pascal? "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction.")


We could go back to the Vikings-lots here are their decendants-hardly any group as fierce and inhumane as they were. And only b/c they wanted more 'riches'-no 'noble' cause whatsoever-and could go kill the Irish, etc.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

beccachow said:


> Well, I am thankful the flaming isn't as painful as I thought. To the few who might have mistaken my "I am ashamed" comment, I meant that I am ashamed that I didn't know this dark part of our history. Nor did I know (Obviously, huh?) about other races being "stored for safekeeping" until I delved into this. I can only shake my head in disbelief.
> 
> Score another point for Homeschooling. And I always prided myself on being pretty well educated compared to others.
> 
> ...


For sure they are not teaching anything credible regarding our founding fathers. How many here love to quote-"Founding Fathers? A bunch of slave-owning white guys who didn't believe in God or Jesus Christ."


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Vikings in northeast Texas; who'd-a thunk it?!

I had a lover with an unusual medical condition that reportedly was linked to Viking ancestry. His grandparents had emigrated from Lithuania, which makes it seem likely. He could be pretty ruthless ... but in a good way.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Tricky Grama said:


> We could go back to the Vikings-lots here are their decendants-hardly any group as fierce and inhumane as they were. And only b/c they wanted more 'riches'-no 'noble' cause whatsoever-and could go kill the Irish, etc.


I think I feel more comfortable with the notion of man's inhumanity to man caused by simple greed than I do with it perpetrated under the cloak of religion.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

TheMartianChick said:


> We also forced African Americans into slavery.


Slavery as the spoils of war has been going on for thousands of years. And while the slaves were purchased and brought to the USA our government did actively go in pursuit of them. White slavery was also common in the US but generally didn't make the history books, and no one came to their aid.

Slavery is still a going business in Africa, but instead of white plantation owners it is Muslim's of various ethnicity that are the main purchasers. And the abuses suffered are usually far worse than any that occurred in the USA.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

beccachow said:


> Well, I am thankful the flaming isn't as painful as I thought. To the few who might have mistaken my "I am ashamed" comment, I meant that I am ashamed that I didn't know this dark part of our history. Nor did I know (Obviously, huh?) about other races being "stored for safekeeping" until I delved into this. I can only shake my head in disbelief.
> 
> Score another point for Homeschooling. And I always prided myself on being pretty well educated compared to others.
> 
> ...


Dont go to texas their school board is rewritting everything .
cant teach jefferson because he's a godless heathen. among many other things . Slavery never happened they call it tri-angular trade


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

PyroDon said:


> Dont go to texas their school board is rewritting everything .
> cant teach jefferson because he's a godless heathen. among many other things . Slavery never happened they call it tri-angular trade


Source?


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

beccachow said:


> I am stunned. Am I the only one in the world who didn't know this??? .


 Could be, we were taught this in U.S. History in high school (of course there was 40 years less history back then)


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

willow_girl said:


> I had a lover with an unusual medical condition that reportedly was linked to Viking ancestry.


Don't tell me ...

Did he have a horny hat?


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## Teri (Jan 13, 2003)

I was remembering this book I read years ago in which some of the characters had been in Japanese internment camps. It's a good read:

http://www.amazon.com/Snow-Falling-...=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274196146&sr=1-3


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

Ernie said:


> Source?


how many would you like 
www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html

www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/.../14texbooks-t.html 

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/.../texas-schools-rewrites-us-history

www.huffingtonpost.com/.../texas-education-board-app_n_497440.html

www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/...texas-rewriting-history/736/ 

news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1253

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKW9isRJqhg[/ame]


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

plowjockey said:


> My country makes mistakes, but I am _*never*_ ashamed of it.


 Really? I find that amazing. Do you not care?

I certainly am ashamed of manythings that this country has done - that translates into my trying to make sure it does better in the future - whether its by voting, or volunteering or donating, or going to court, etc.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Aintlifegrand said:


> and not to mention that there are quite a few dems that would probably like to see tea party folks put into internment camps.


 internment camps? no. mental hospitals? maybe :thumb:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

PyroDon said:


> how many would you like
> www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html
> 
> www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/.../14texbooks-t.html
> ...


None of those links support what you are asserting.

The Texas Curriculum board removed the inclusion of a series of history lessons which played up Lation figures. They also included two economic theorists who are proponents of the free market to counterbalance the Keynes and Marx. They included sections about the Black Panthers to counterbalance the "non-violence" of Dr. Martin Luther King. And finally, and potentially the most upsetting to many liberals, they required that the Theory of Evolution be presented as _just another theory._

I gathered that information strictly from the links YOU provided.


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## Guest (May 18, 2010)

LOL, of his 5 links, 3 of them aren't even a link. Cracks me up.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Ernie said:


> and potentially the most upsetting to many liberals, they required that the Theory of Evolution be presented as _just another theory._
> .


Sorry Ernie, but that is not a liberal/conservative issue - its a religous/non-religous thing or even a literal Bible/non-literal Bible thing


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

mnn2501 said:


> Sorry Ernie, but that is not a liberal/conservative issue - its a religous/non-religous thing or even a literal Bible/non-literal Bible thing


I'll concede that point, but I've noticed it's primarily liberals who I see protesting this.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

mnn2501 said:


> internment camps? no. mental hospitals? maybe :thumb:



That's been done throughout history as well so I am not surprised


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Yes, they bombed us. Our government detained Japanese citizens because they were trying to protect us. They may have gone about it wrong, but when you attack another country, do you expect the descendents from your country to be given punch and cookies?
History is full of good, bad, and many mistakes.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

Having read through most of this thread, I have a problem understanding the guilt and hand wringing. Guess having traveled to a lot of countries overseas and talked to the people there they for the most part look to the US as a place of greatness and someone to emulate. Some of the countries (old Soviet Bloc) would give anything to have had the freedoms we have and yeah horrors, religion is the top one they wish they had.

As to history and all they terrible things that have happened, well it would be hard to find a nation that has not done things that in this time in history that are horrifying. A large portion of my family are Mexican and some still live in Mexico, so maybe I see things in a prism of now, as there are many things happening there that would scare the stuff out of most. 

History is a compendium of change and realignment and it seems never without pain.. Like some here said learn from the past it is the greatest teacher.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Ambereyes said:


> Having read through most of this thread, I have a problem understanding the guilt and hand wringing. Guess having traveled to a lot of countries overseas and talked to the people there they for the most part look to the US as a place of greatness and someone to emulate. Some of the countries (old Soviet Bloc) would give anything to have had the freedoms we have and yeah horrors, religion is the top one they wish they had.
> 
> As to history and all they terrible things that have happened, well it would be hard to find a nation that has not done things that in this time in history that are horrifying. A large portion of my family are Mexican and some still live in Mexico, so maybe I see things in a prism of now, as there are many things happening there that would scare the stuff out of most.
> 
> History is a compendium of change and realignment and it seems never without pain.. Like some here said learn from the past it is the greatest teacher.



Well said. I am proud to be an American! God Bless America...mistakes and all!!!


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

plowjockey said:


> Wow, when did being a "self loathing" American, replace baseball, as America's favorite pastime?
> 
> How hard it is to believe, that as a great country, we are indeed not a perfect country? We have made mistakes, some quite large. Many did or do not have an easy fix.
> 
> My country makes mistakes, but I am _*never*_ ashamed of it.


EXACTLY!!!

Very well said!


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## vickiesmom (Feb 25, 2005)

Wags said:


> Slavery as the spoils of war has been going on for thousands of years. And while the slaves were purchased and brought to the USA our government did actively go in pursuit of them. White slavery was also common in the US but generally didn't make the history books, and no one came to their aid.
> 
> Slavery is still a going business in Africa, but instead of white plantation owners it is Muslim's of various ethnicity that are the main purchasers. And the abuses suffered are usually far worse than any that occurred in the USA.


REALLY?!? I think you had better run through the history books one more time. American black slave women often had their breasts cut off if they tried to escape, men, their genitalia. Young black girls were their white masters' concubines. Families were separated, most forever. Slaves generally worked 20 hours a day, some even falling dead in the fields. Children as young as five were separated from their parents and sent to learn a trade, those not bright enough, were sent into the fields. Ever heard the term **********? That was a small slave child whose hair was outfitted with tufts of brightly colored cloth so a family member could keep an eye on him or her while in the field.

Please do not gloss over what happened to us over here. Those are MY ancestors, not some story in a book that you rushed past. These stories are from my family, not some white history major who 'researched' slavery.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

vickiesmom said:


> REALLY?!? I think you had better run through the history books one more time. American black slave women often had their breasts cut off if they tried to escape, men, their genitalia. Young black girls were their white masters' concubines. Families were separated, most forever. Slaves generally worked 20 hours a day, some even falling dead in the fields. Children as young as five were separated from their parents and sent to learn a trade, those not bright enough, were sent into the fields. Ever heard the term **********? That was a small slave child whose hair was outfitted with tufts of brightly colored cloth so a family member could keep an eye on him or her while in the field.
> 
> Please do not gloss over what happened to us over here. Those are MY ancestors, not some story in a book that you rushed past. These stories are from my family, not some white history major who 'researched' slavery.


Yet you seem to gloss over the fact that white men didn't capture the slaves in the first place. They were captured by other Africans and sold to the slave traders on the coasts.. So it was Africans who sold other Africans for their own profit.. Yet we Americans get all the blame for slavery... Even though it was practiced by many other countries the world over...

How many Americans have to die to free and stop slavery before it is over?

How many generations have to pass before the African-Americans can no longer use "slavery-past" as an excuse for their own conditions?


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

vickiesmom said:


> REALLY?!? I think you had better run through the history books one more time. American black slave women often had their breasts cut off if they tried to escape, men, their genitalia. Young black girls were their white masters' concubines. Families were separated, most forever. Slaves generally worked 20 hours a day, some even falling dead in the fields. Children as young as five were separated from their parents and sent to learn a trade, those not bright enough, were sent into the fields. Ever heard the term **********? That was a small slave child whose hair was outfitted with tufts of brightly colored cloth so a family member could keep an eye on him or her while in the field.
> 
> Please do not gloss over what happened to us over here. Those are MY ancestors, not some story in a book that you rushed past. These stories are from my family, not some white history major who 'researched' slavery.


Nobody is denying the horrid acts SOME Americans did hundreds of years ago. But seriously, what can I do to change something I had no part of? Yes, there have been bad people since the beginning of time...in every corner of the world!!! There are evil humans walking the streets today. All we can do is make sure that negative events in history do not repeat themselves. 
At what point will people who have had oppressed ancestors realize that the Americans living here and now are not responsible for negative events of the past?
Why not look at the positive contibutions white Americans have made towards anti-slavery and equal rights?


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

But we should ignore that in many cases black slaves were treated better than the white immigrants , We should also ignore that slavery in this country was a direct result of a Black man suing in court claiming he had the right to hold another Black man in servatude for life . We should also ignore that Black themselves owned slaves and in the case of most slaves shipped from Africa that it was other blacks who captured and sold them to the white traders .
Thus is the problem of looking at history with blinders on you only see part of the picture.


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## Guest (May 18, 2010)

If anyone can point me toward the country that is Utopia I'll move there . In the meantime I'll stay right here in the USA & be darn proud of it .


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

vickiesmom said:


> REALLY?!? I think you had better run through the history books one more time. American black slave women often had their breasts cut off if they tried to escape, men, their genitalia. Young black girls were their white masters' concubines. Families were separated, most forever. Slaves generally worked 20 hours a day, some even falling dead in the fields. Children as young as five were separated from their parents and sent to learn a trade, those not bright enough, were sent into the fields. Ever heard the term **********? That was a small slave child whose hair was outfitted with tufts of brightly colored cloth so a family member could keep an eye on him or her while in the field.
> 
> Please do not gloss over what happened to us over here. Those are MY ancestors, not some story in a book that you rushed past. These stories are from my family, not some white history major who 'researched' slavery.


almost every race and even religion have had some pretty horrific atrocities done to their ancestors at one point in history.. the real test of strength comes from being able to rise above it and not lie down as a victim...I look to the cajun people... these are truly great survivors who rose above everything done to them by many peoples to be fun loving sucessful people......


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

Ernie said:


> None of those links support what you are asserting.
> 
> The Texas Curriculum board removed the inclusion of a series of history lessons which played up Lation figures. They also included two economic theorists who are proponents of the free market to counterbalance the Keynes and Marx. They included sections about the Black Panthers to counterbalance the "non-violence" of Dr. Martin Luther King. And finally, and potentially the most upsetting to many liberals, they required that the Theory of Evolution be presented as _just another theory._
> 
> I gathered that information strictly from the links YOU provided.


Believe it or not I didnt make the statement for a political nor religious gain but to show that there are those even today who are constantly attempting to rewrite history. 
sorry all of the links didnt work . for some reason the link to the boards minutes seems to have vanished . 
to learn from history we nee to be able to view the whole picture not just a selected side of an issue 

OH BTW my girls go to a christian school that does indeed teach evolution as well as religion


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Aintlifegrand said:


> almost every race and even religion have had some pretty horrific atrocities done to their ancestors at one point in history.. the real test of strength comes from being able to rise above it and not lie down as a victim.


Oh, but victimization is so much easier for people. It is a way of life. As long as you can blame someone else, then you don't have to be accountable for your own behavior.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I am with whom ever wrote, " My family came here long after the civil war, killed no native americans, jailed no japanese" and if you think america has done some nasty things in the past. Boy have you got to wake up and smell the coffee, I know there will be more to come and you can count on it. As things get worse in the world, people are going to do some nasty things. And most of the time it is the down troden that takes the brunt of the bad deed. So be prepared for bad things to happen to good people, it happens, be prepared.>Thanks Marc


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Aintlifegrand said:


> almost every race and even religion have had some pretty horrific atrocities done to their ancestors at one point in history.. *the real test of strength comes from being able to rise above it and not lie down as a victim..*.I look to the cajun people... these are truly great survivors who rose above everything done to them by many peoples to be fun loving sucessful people......


To me, the real test is for the people who did harm to others to acknowledge the wrong and make an attempt to right it. That allows for healing to begin. Our country has whitewashed history and obliterated many references to the contributions that were made by many minority groups. It is so hard to respect the versions of history that are in school history books.

When my youngest daughter was a senior in high school, we opted her out of Social Studies class. It was something new that they were allowing at the time. She did an internship, instead. We were tired of the lies that the textbooks were feeding to children. There was more pseudo-patriotic garbage than actual historical fact in each one. My daughter attended class for the first week. Apparently, she was disturbing the lesson plan by raising her hand and correcting the misinformation that was being disseminated. The teacher suggested that she do the internship after she had spent a day confined to in-school suspension for raising her hand.


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## marvella (Oct 12, 2003)

the reality is that blacks were thought of as only 3/5 human (and that was generous) and were bred like cattle. some farms gave better care and kept better records of their horses than their slaves.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

TheMartianChick said:


> *To me, the real test is for the people who did harm to others to acknowledge the wrong and make an attempt to right it. *That allows for healing to begin. Our country has whitewashed history and obliterated many references to the contributions that were made by many minority groups. It is so hard to respect the versions of history that are in school history books.
> 
> When my youngest daughter was a senior in high school, we opted her out of Social Studies class. It was something new that they were allowing at the time. She did an internship, instead. We were tired of the lies that the textbooks were feeding to children. There was more pseudo-patriotic garbage than actual historical fact in each one. My daughter attended class for the first week. Apparently, she was disturbing the lesson plan by raising her hand and correcting the misinformation that was being disseminated. The teacher suggested that she do the internship after she had spent a day confined to in-school suspension for raising her hand.


In this case are there any people who owned slaves still alive that can make it right?


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

If you didn't know about the interment of the Japanenes during WWII for heaven sake please don't do any research on the Tuskegee syphilis experiment!!


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Aintlifegrand said:


> In this case are there any people who owned slaves still alive that can make it right?


The answer is no... But it sure would be nice if American history texts contained history that was inclusive of the diverse group of people who helped to shape the country. Most history books trivialize or ignore the contributions of women and minorities. I just think that history books should tell the whole factual story, and not perpetuate patriotic caucasian fairy tales.

Honesty is all that I'm looking for... I can't imagine that anyone would knowingly want their children to learn the wrong information at school. If anything, that is a prime example of indoctrination.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

watcher said:


> If you didn't know about the interment of the Japanenes during WWII for heaven sake please don't do any research on the Tuskegee syphilis experiment!!


There was a movie made about this... It is called Ms. Evers' Boys and starred Alfre Woodard. It is really sickening to think that not only were these men used as human lab rats, but that when there was a cure for syphilis, they were denied the cure. The government wanted to find out just how bad their illness would get... further experimentation on American citizens.


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## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

I am the son of a former slave.
That's right, I am. My father was 16 when Germany invaded Poland, and he was forced to work on road crews, work camps, and then the death camps. Dad taught us kids to never feel sorry for ourselves and how NOT to be a victim.
Once you are freed from slavery, your life is your own and so are the results.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

megafatcat said:


> I am the son of a former slave.
> That's right, I am. My father was 16 when Germany invaded Poland, and he was forced to work on road crews, work camps, and then the death camps. Dad taught us kids to never feel sorry for ourselves and how NOT to be a victim.
> Once you are freed from slavery, your life is your own and so are the results.


Thank you for sharing that, some people can be incredibly strong facing the worst life has to offer.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

megafatcat said:


> I am the son of a former slave.
> That's right, I am. My father was 16 when Germany invaded Poland, and he was forced to work on road crews, work camps, and then the death camps. Dad taught us kids to never feel sorry for ourselves and how NOT to be a victim.
> Once you are freed from slavery, your life is your own and so are the results.


I am confident that most people are able to trace SOMEONE in their family who has been oppressed because of race, ethnicity, or gender. For crying out loud- look at how women were treated, and that is half of the human population! For the most part, America is no different than other countries when it comes to a history of oppression. We can tell the stories of old and try to move forward as civil human beings, or we can continue with the "blame game" and never achieve true equality.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

vickiesmom said:


> REALLY?!? I think you had better run through the history books one more time. American black slave women often had their breasts cut off if they tried to escape, men, their genitalia. Young black girls were their white masters' concubines. Families were separated, most forever. Slaves generally worked 20 hours a day, some even falling dead in the fields. Children as young as five were separated from their parents and sent to learn a trade, those not bright enough, were sent into the fields. Ever heard the term **********? That was a small slave child whose hair was outfitted with tufts of brightly colored cloth so a family member could keep an eye on him or her while in the field.
> 
> Please do not gloss over what happened to us over here. Those are MY ancestors, not some story in a book that you rushed past. These stories are from my family, not some white history major who 'researched' slavery.



Not to gloss over as you say, but the American Indian did pretty much the same thing to their captives/slaves. As said repeatedly history is full of this type of thing in all ethnicity's.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

watcher said:


> If you didn't know about the interment of the Japanenes during WWII for heaven sake please don't do any research on the Tuskegee syphilis experiment!!


And don't forget the experiments they've done to soldiers, like the guys they told to get in the trenches close to a nuclear detonation, then marched across ground zero.:huh:

Oh yeah, let's not forget all the people who lived in the American southwest who were "dusted" with fallout from some of the many above-ground nuclear tests during the 50s and 60s.

There are a lot of things you won't read about in the history books. Since the colonials won the American Revolution, they got to write the history, so you hardly see any mention of the colonials who sided with the British during the war. Some of them moved to Canada after the war because they weren't exactly popular with the citizens of the new country of America.
Also, during and right after the Civil(?) War, the border regions were devastated by troops from both sides as well as Raiders who took advantage of the opportunity caused by the war. After the war, the South went through "Reconstruction" according to the history books, but much of that "Reconstruction" involved wholesale looting by Northerners.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I can't remember whether this was covered in HS history. It was in college. Learned more history on my own than I ever did in either school setting.

Mix in a little 'time travel theory' and I'd dare not change anything in the past... cause that might mean I'd never exist.

Our country's history is littered with one atrocity after another. Without those atrocities, it's doubtful if the country as we know it today, would even exist... and if it didn't, odds are we'd be speaking something other than English. 

Are we perfect? No, not by a longshot.

Is there a more freedom loving nation in the world? No, not in my opinion.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

PyroDon said:


> Credit where Credit is Due
> 
> This is by far the he best post Ive seen you make :rock:


I agree :clap:


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

One of Grandma's best friends later in life had been an attractive, 15 year old blonde Dutch girl when the Japanese took Hong Kong. She spent the rest of the war locked up as a "comfort girl" for the Japanese soldiers. As one of a VERY few white girls, she was kept very busy. I don't think she'd be too impressed with all the complaining by some others.


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## vickiesmom (Feb 25, 2005)

beowoulf90 said:


> Yet you seem to gloss over the fact that white men didn't capture the slaves in the first place. They were captured by other Africans and sold to the slave traders on the coasts.. So it was Africans who sold other Africans for their own profit.. Yet we Americans get all the blame for slavery... Even though it was practiced by many other countries the world over...
> 
> How many Americans have to die to free and stop slavery before it is over?
> 
> ...


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## vickiesmom (Feb 25, 2005)

Ambereyes said:


> Not to gloss over as you say, but the American Indian did pretty much the same thing to their captives/slaves. As said repeatedly history is full of this type of thing in all ethnicity's.


Not excusing them either, and they learned from whites and held blacks as slaves as well.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

willow_girl said:


> Vikings in northeast Texas; who'd-a thunk it?!
> 
> I had a lover with an unusual medical condition that reportedly was linked to Viking ancestry. His grandparents had emigrated from Lithuania, which makes it seem likely. He could be pretty ruthless ... but in a good way.


Hah. I didn't mean where I live, I meant on HT.  Well, I do know a few of viking decent.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I wonder how many of todays African Americans would willingly change history if it meant them being born in The Congo, Somalia, South Africa, Sudan, Ethiopia, etc. ?


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

PyroDon said:


> Dont go to texas their school board is rewritting everything .
> cant teach jefferson because he's a godless heathen. among many other things . Slavery never happened they call it tri-angular trade


Wow, you could NOT be MORE off base. Try your links b/c most are "page not found".
For years progressives have re-written history, telling tales about the Founding Fathers that were just not true or quoting something out of context. Facts are, they WERE people of faith, they did not ALL own slaves in fact most were against it. The constitution was no longer taught. 
What TX is doing is getting back to facts.
While I'm not for leaving out evolution, darwin, etc, I'm all for teaching our history correctly.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Ernie said:


> None of those links support what you are asserting.
> 
> The Texas Curriculum board removed the inclusion of a series of history lessons which played up Lation figures. They also included two economic theorists who are proponents of the free market to counterbalance the Keynes and Marx. They included sections about the Black Panthers to counterbalance the "non-violence" of Dr. Martin Luther King. And finally, and potentially the most upsetting to many liberals, they required that the Theory of Evolution be presented as _just another theory._
> 
> I gathered that information strictly from the links YOU provided.


Ernie! The voice of reason-AGAIN.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

mnn2501 said:


> Sorry Ernie, but that is not a liberal/conservative issue - its a religous/non-religous thing or even a literal Bible/non-literal Bible thing


Respectfully disagree. I went to a parochial school & was taught evolution.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

marvella said:


> the reality is that blacks were thought of as only 3/5 human (and that was generous) and were bred like cattle. some farms gave better care and kept better records of their horses than their slaves.


It is things like this that WERE corrected but not soon enuf.
Some actually believed that Black people were merely animals who could speak. Things like this horrify me, make me sad, and wish that it had never happened. 
OTOH, I had no part in it. And as others have said, as far as I can tell neither did my ancestors. But those who founded our country, those who built it, struggled w/it or partook (?) in it. Facts are facts. 
Cannot deny that atrocities happened. Cannot change it. Can strive for perfection and to better ourselves & our country.
But to be ashamed of our country??? NEVER!


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

megafatcat said:


> I am the son of a former slave.
> That's right, I am. My father was 16 when Germany invaded Poland, and he was forced to work on road crews, work camps, and then the death camps. Dad taught us kids to never feel sorry for ourselves and how NOT to be a victim.
> Once you are freed from slavery, your life is your own and so are the results.


Sorry your father had to endure that. Thank you for sharing.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

vickiesmom said:


> Not excusing them either, and they learned from whites and held blacks as slaves as well.


Study your history, they did this long before the white or black man came here. The Spaniards found natives holding slaves when they were in Mexico.


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## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

Beccachow, Are you still reading? I haven't read all posts- did you know what we did in the Phillipines? Do you know lynchings of blacks took place all over America, not just the South? Mark Twain wrote lots about our nation's and people's shameful actions. I'm sure you know what 'we' did to Indians?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

PyroDon said:


> Believe it or not I didnt make the statement for a political nor religious gain but to show that there are those even today who are constantly attempting to rewrite history.
> sorry all of the links didnt work . for some reason the link to the boards minutes seems to have vanished .
> to learn from history we nee to be able to view the whole picture not just a selected side of an issue
> 
> OH BTW my girls go to a christian school that does indeed teach evolution as well as religion


Then you should have stated that instead of a loosely veiled attack on Texas and conservatives.

Of COURSE there are people who insist on rewriting history. You do realize why, don't you? Because _history shapes the future._ It's the clay from which the bricks are fired to make the buildings in which we dwell. By twisting history you can mold young minds to fit the image.

Men have continuously sought to craft utopia, no matter what their ideology. By changing history and controlling school curriculum they feel as if they have their hands on the control levers of the future.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Ambereyes said:


> Not to gloss over as you say, but the American Indian did pretty much the same thing to their captives/slaves. As said repeatedly history is full of this type of thing in all ethnicity's.


None of which negates another.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

TheMartianChick said:


> The answer is no... But it sure would be nice if American history texts contained history that was inclusive of the diverse group of people who helped to shape the country. Most history books trivialize or ignore the contributions of women and minorities. I just think that history books should tell the whole factual story, and not perpetuate patriotic caucasian fairy tales.
> 
> Honesty is all that I'm looking for... I can't imagine that anyone would knowingly want their children to learn the wrong information at school. If anything, that is a prime example of indoctrination.


I am going to need to see a link to this history book that you are referring to...I was educated in Louisiana and all of this was included in both American History, Louisiana history and for my kids who were educated in three states Alaska, Texas and Louisiana they were all taught about the subject of this post, slavery, womens sufferage...not to mention Black history month was celebrated and taught in all of those schools...not sure what they do in the Northeast... if you could give me the name of the text book taught there for American History, I could research it to understand what you mean about stuff being left out.


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## vickiesmom (Feb 25, 2005)

tinknal said:


> I wonder how many of todays African Americans would willingly change history if it meant them being born in The Congo, Somalia, South Africa, Sudan, Ethiopia, etc. ?


If whites had never gone to those countries and stripped it of its resources, we would notbe having this discussion.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

Tiempo said:


> None of which negates another.


Of course it doesn't negate it, it just makes the point that no race has really had anymore abuse than the other.. It in a sick sort of way survival of the fittest. Being a minority myself, I think using things like this negatively are just a way to hold a race down. Understand the history, learn from it and proceed to make a good life. It is your decision how you use history.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

> understand the history, learn from it and proceed to make a good life. It is your decision how you use history.


brilliant!!


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Yup, Jenn, still reading. Since joining GC I have learned a lot and widened my world view quite a bit. This thread is certainly no exception.

I have a black friend (who is in the army and our debate over the Arizona law led me to the discovery of the interment camps to start with) who said, "We don't need black history. We just need HISTORY." Amen to that.

I also learned of evolution in my Christian private school. I guess this little episode in our history wasn't considered important.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

beccachow said:


> I guess this little episode in our history wasn't considered important.


I wouldn't say that it wasn't considered important.

WWII was a huge war. You could easily have college course on the topic, as you could with hundreds of other WWII topics.

Classroom time is limited, and you have to draw the line somewhere. 

Instead of lumping the internment camp issue into the study of WWII, it might be better studied in an American constitutional law class. This could be a very interesting class if taught correctly.


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## Lilandra (Oct 21, 2004)

vickiesmom said:


> If whites had never gone to those countries and stripped it of its resources, we would notbe having this discussion.



let me be blunt and take a guess here... you are not fair skinned.

at the risk of being offensive: It's this attitude "hate whitie" that gets us no where in life. Dr. King said (paraphrasing) "In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred." This is from the great I have a dream speech... something else that is glossed over in our schools.
the most memorable part is the most important part in my opinion --"that we will one day live in a nation where we will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
this goes for all skin colors and ethnic origins, not just blacks...

how does being bitter over past historic events, help us prevent similar injustices from happening again?

so what if you are a slave decedent, me too... but no one is going to give me any money for sitting at this computer wasting a perfectly good day to accomplish something. I won't get paid for the misfortunes and tragedies in my life... pull yourself up by your boot straps, advocate for humane treatment for all, and best honor your ancestors by making a positive mark for the future.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Lilandra said:


> let me be blunt and take a guess here... you are not fair skinned.
> 
> at the risk of being offensive: It's this attitude "hate whitie" that gets us no where in life. Dr. King said (paraphrasing) "In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred." This is from the great I have a dream speech... something else that is glossed over in our schools.
> the most memorable part is the most important part in my opinion --"that we will one day live in a nation where we will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
> ...



Well said...


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

Tricky Grama said:


> For years progressives have re-written history, telling tales about the Founding Fathers that were just not true or quoting something out of context. Facts are, they WERE people of faith, they did not ALL own slaves in fact most were against it. The constitution was no longer taught.


Being a person of faith and owning slaves has nothing to do with the other .
And No if one goes by fasts not all of the founding fathers were people of faith .
A good many were agnostic .
Back to the faith and owning slaves . Im curious to seem the bible quotes where it says owning slaves is evil. Considering Lev and others state clearly you can sell your own children into slavery .
I do agree that often the constitution is no longer taught and from many posts Id have to guess it hasnt been in at least 3 decades .
The problem is history is written by the victor , this has always been the case and very seldom shows the victor as anything other than honorable.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

vickiesmom said:


> beowoulf90 said:
> 
> 
> > Yet you seem to gloss over the fact that white men didn't capture the slaves in the first place. They were captured by other Africans and sold to the slave traders on the coasts.. So it was Africans who sold other Africans for their own profit.. Yet we Americans get all the blame for slavery... Even though it was practiced by many other countries the world over...
> ...


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## Lilandra (Oct 21, 2004)

another thing that has been bothering me about this discussion -- being a christian is not a requirement for having a moral compass. you can have a moral compass if you don't believe in a higher power. its a common sense thing, a strong feeling of what is right and wrong and has nothing to do with religion. I bet if you do some researching you will see more wars are fought over religious beliefs and people who feel their god is the only one than there is wars fought for other reasons.

WWII proved that good people of all walks of life could be villains, saviors, or act ignorant because they were afraid to get involved. We need to learn from the actions from that war and get involved when we see social injustices, we need to be involved in our govt so it doesn't turn into a dictatorship. 

We need to stand up and stop big brother from "helping" us.
How many people remember doing something hard by themselves - what a feeling of accomplishment! Now think back to when you were a team member who just sat on your hands but people praised you as if it was your idea and effort that made it a success... how did that feel?

Look at real life - are you happiest when you pay your own way or when you have to be helped out of a mess you made?

Skin color is not a mess that people need to be rescued from, its like a sweater or a pair of jeans -- a non-issue when it comes down to the content of the character of the person.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

Well said Lilandra!!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

> another thing that has been bothering me about this discussion -- being a christian is not a requirement for having a moral compass. you can have a moral compass if you don't believe in a higher power. its a common sense thing, a strong feeling of what is right and wrong and has nothing to do with religion. I bet if you do some researching you will see more wars are fought over religious beliefs and people who feel their god is the only one than there is wars fought for other reasons.


You are right. You do not need a 'religion' to have a moral compass.
I know a lot of folks who are upright, moral, 'good' people who are not Believers.
They don't have Salvation, but they do have a good sense of right and wrong.

Anyone can have a moral compass. 
Even some men in prison have a 'moral compass'. Those doing hard time have little use for other criminals who have committed crimes against children. Somehow the most hardened criminals seem to find a moral compass when it comes to sexual predators.

You are also right, a lot of wars are fought over 'religion'.
It's a crying shame.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

RiverPines said:


> Dig more and you will find a lot of 'dark' tidbits in our history.


this I agree on.



RiverPines said:


> Our nation has abused, tortured, imprisoned, and slaughtered, innocent people throughout its history and even today.


this not so much, our nation is composed of many different people with new ones all the time, so unless everyone or at least just the majority supported such actions I dont think they where perpetuated by our nation, but those in charge. those would be the wealthy and affluent in most cases.



RiverPines said:


> what do you expect, this nation was founded with blood, not roses and smiles.


yes it was. 



RiverPines said:


> And out of all the nations in the world we are the 'only' ones to have ever used a nuclear weapon. Leave it to us to be the first to try it.


those in charge where the only ones to use a nuclear bomb in a war. 
afterwards though I think anyone sane would not do this again.
Throughout the twentieth century, most nations that have developed nuclear weapons have tested them.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Aintlifegrand said:


> I am going to need to see a link to this history book that you are referring to...I was educated in Louisiana and all of this was included in both American History, Louisiana history and for my kids who were educated in three states Alaska, Texas and Louisiana they were all taught about the subject of this post, slavery, womens sufferage...not to mention Black history month was celebrated and taught in all of those schools...not sure what they do in the Northeast... if you could give me the name of the text book taught there for American History, I could research it to understand what you mean about stuff being left out.


It isn't any one history book that is the problem... Here are a couple of examples though and I will post a link to a book that will help you to understand where I am coming from. 

Though there is a mention of African Americans in school textbooks, the books usually talk about only a few (MLK, Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglass, Crispus Attucks and generic references to slaves)

For Native American history, there is usually a mention of the Pilgrims and their encounters with the indigent people, but there are only a few that are mentioned by name (Squanto, Sacajawea, selected Chiefs). There are always references to the Trail of Tears and stories about Calvin Custer and his "triumphs' over the native people.

For Asian Americans, the school textbooks are even more vague with references to the Chinese helping to build the railroad and eventually settling along the west coast. (I can't think of a single Asian American person named in any of the junior or high school books that I have ever seen!)

For Hispanic Americans and Latinos, the Mexican American war is taught but not much about any of the people as individuals.

As for women... I think that we just existed to stitch up a flag (Betsy Ross), push out babies, tend a house and to bandage up soldiers wounded in battle. There was a lot more to women's history than just the suffrage movement.

There are many American minority and women inventors, trailblazers, scientific pioneers, etc who are not mentioned in the traditional history books that our children are exposed to through school. These are not people who had minor accomplishments, but people who did some amazing things.But you'll never learn of their accomplishments unless you seek them out. 

Why are their accomplishments buried? Why can't all of American history be taught to our children? If we aren't ashamed of the things that we've done, then we should let it all hang out so that everyone can see what we've done. If we are ashamed of some of the things in our past, then we still should air out the dirty laundry to ensure that we never follow that path again. America is a melting pot. Our history classes should reflect that and we should be able to come together as a group to celebrate how far we have all come. As it stands now, our history books are just devisive tools.

The book that I'd like to provide as a reference is called "Lies My Teacher Told Me". This is from the author's website and is the introduction to the book:

http://sundown.afro.illinois.edu/content.php?file=liesmyteachertoldme-introduction.html


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

There were many heros in all parts of history unnamed..How many fought in the Revolutionary war.. yet we only really studied the few...Washington, Jefferson, Franklin...The fact that the people of the civil war and civil rights movement were discussed proves to me that history wasn't changed..perhaps not expounded upon as much as you would like..but then that really isn't possible in a general studies history class...in order to finish the history of this nation.. you touch upon general items and leave the rest to the interest of the child or the parent to expound upon... Also some areas are those that are gone into more detail in elective courses in our HS here.. there is one course dedicated to the Civil War..also there is another one entitled "The Dark Side of the Constitution" where students can study about the less than stellar intentions of the framers of the Constitution.. slike how it was written primarily for the white male land owner...I was taught the history of this nation as were my children..But I also never relied on the schools to be our only educator...I taught them other things that I knew the schools would not have time to go into in length.. Literature was another area I felt they needed more..so I gave it to them as well as biblical studies and more history that I knew would not have the detail I wanted it to have......we as parents supplied the extra..these days I would home school.. back then it never crossed my mind that you could..


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

PyroDon said:


> Being a person of faith and owning slaves has nothing to do with the other .
> And No if one goes by fasts not all of the founding fathers were people of faith .
> A good many were agnostic .
> Back to the faith and owning slaves . Im curious to seem the bible quotes where it says owning slaves is evil. Considering Lev and others state clearly you can sell your own children into slavery .
> ...


I did NOT say owning slaves & being a person of faith had anything to do w/the other. I was stating some facts that have been distorted. Guess I should have put them in separate paragraphs.
And many more were men of God than were agnostic. FEW were agnostic. And I don't mean people of faith who occasionally say "if there is a God..."
There's been misinterpretation of the founding fathers writings, letters, etc.


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## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

In ancient times, slavery was the humane thing to do. After you conquered a city, what else would you do with the survivors? Generally the victors would settle that area. You would not want an angry population there that may rise up in rebellion. So you either slaughter them all as the Isrialites as one example out of many sometimes did. Or you could enslave them, taking the majority to the home city and scattering the rest among the farms, ensuring that there would never be enough of them in any one place to cause too much trouble. This is not a justification for slavery today or 200 years ago. If society falls low enough, (SHTF), slavery could emerge again and I can predict that some would welcome servitude over an uncertain future/starvation.


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## SLD Farm (Dec 19, 2007)

In historical times, slavery was absolutely necessary. There were no machines or technology to do things for you. How do you think the philosophers had time to create philosophy? Or the Greeks to creat democracy, the Romans to conquer, others to explore and colonize, on & on. We modern peoples look at the past and say "how wrong, how immoral, how terrible". It was a fact of life! No need for apology, move on please! There were white as well as black slaves in history, heck even here in America. Ever heard of indentured servants? I don't need a President apologizing for Slavery, we white Americans don't need to pay Black Americans for their ancestors enslavement. They are here, in American, with opportunities to better themselves, opportunities that they probably would not have had in Africa. How many of you know that in the 1840-1860's there was a movement to recolonize freed slaves in Africa? Lincoln supported it, many abolishioners did. Most freed slaves didn't want to go! So they didn't. They wanted to be Americans. Yet here 150 yrs later so many Americans are still trying to lay blame for or benefit from, slavery. CRAZY!

As far as HISTORY goes, the victors write the history books. They include and omit what they wish. It has only been in the last 10-15 years that more of our "shameful" history is coming to light. Don't let your Historical education end with what is taught in schools, read, research learn on your own. If you don't, you will walk through life ignorant of many, many historical facts.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Aintlifegrand said:


> There were many heros in all parts of history unnamed..How many fought in the Revolutionary war.. yet we only really studied the few...Washington, Jefferson, Franklin...The fact that the people of the civil war and civil rights movement were discussed proves to me that history wasn't changed..perhaps not expounded upon as much as you would like..but then that really isn't possible in a general studies history class...in order to finish the history of this nation.. you touch upon general items and leave the rest to the interest of the child or the parent to expound upon... Also some areas are those that are gone into more detail in elective courses in our HS here.. there is one course dedicated to the Civil War..also there is another one entitled "The Dark Side of the Constitution" where students can study about the less than stellar intentions of the framers of the Constitution.. slike how it was written primarily for the white male land owner...I was taught the history of this nation as were my children..But I also never relied on the schools to be our only educator...I taught them other things that I knew the schools would not have time to go into in length.. Literature was another area I felt they needed more..so I gave it to them as well as biblical studies and more history that I knew would not have the detail I wanted it to have......we as parents supplied the extra..these days I would home school.. back then it never crossed my mind that you could..


I understand your points but not all schools offer "extra" social studies classes. In fact, a lot of schools would have difficulty filling those classes as electives because of the boring way in which history (in general) is taught. Additionally, with the current budget cuts that most districts are facing, they are not looking to add anything "extra".

For every student who has parents who will enrich the school curriculum with additional lessons, there are many more who do not. Public school should provide a well-rounded education, not one that is myopic in its view and causes students to feel that their people aren't represented or that they made no contribution to US history. Especially when there were major contributions that were made...just never recognized.

I guess that my point is that this is American history...Not white American history. It should be a portrait of all of us. My family has been watching the History Channel's America: The Story of US each week. We have found that it presents a great deal of information about all sorts of Americans in history. Some of it we already knew. Some of it was new to us. Two of the episodes are available online if anyone is interested in watching them, but they have been re-running the earlier episodes on tv quite regularly:

http://www.history.com/shows/america-the-story-of-us/videos/playlists/full-episodes#america-the-story-of-us-civil-war


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

SLD Farm said:


> There were white as well as black slaves in history, heck even here in America. Ever heard of indentured servants? I don't need a President apologizing for Slavery, we white Americans don't need to pay Black Americans for their ancestors enslavement. They are here, in American, with opportunities to better themselves, opportunities that they probably would not have had in Africa. How many of you know that in the 1840-1860's there was a movement to recolonize freed slaves in Africa? Lincoln supported it, many abolishioners did. Most freed slaves didn't want to go! So they didn't. They wanted to be Americans. Yet here 150 yrs later so many Americans are still trying to lay blame for or benefit from, slavery. CRAZY!


Indentured servants had a finite period of time in which they served and they usually signed a contract agreeing to be a temporary slave. African Americans were enslaved for life, against their will and with little chance of ever obtaining freedom.

*We white Americans don't need to pay Black Americans for their ancestors enslavement?* Really? Then why was it acceptable to pay the decendants of the Japanese who were interred? Have you ever thought about the sheer amount of wealth that was built on the backs of slaves? The slaves never had the opportunity to "will" any of that wealth to their heirs, though they are the ones who produced it.

As far as sending slaves back to Africa... How would you feel if you were uneducated and everything about your past had been eradicated? Would you be willing to go someplace and  try to live among people who no longer would recognize you as one of their own? You wouldn't be familiar with the terrain and you would have been indoctrinated with the "knowledge" that Africa was full of "savages". It would be hard for me to leave a country that I had helped to build.

Many of the people who supported the back to Africa movement were afraid that ex-slaves would rise up, while others didn't want to have to treat inferior blacks as human beings. When slavery ended... equality for people of color didn't magically begin. Equality still doesn't exist, but the playing field is a lot closer to level than it used to be. For an ex-slave, there really weren't that many "oportunities". They were (for the most part) uneducated and owned nothing. Job opportunities included sharecropping for a farmer, working as a maid or migrating north to work in a factory while living in a slum, the only places that they were allowed to live. The opportunities that have been afforded to the decendants of slaves mostly occurred in the last 75 years or so. Affirmative Action is one program that comes to mind.



SLD Farm said:


> As far as HISTORY goes, the victors write the history books. They include and omit what they wish. It has only been in the last 10-15 years that more of our "shameful" history is coming to light. Don't let your Historical education end with what is taught in schools, read, research learn on your own. If you don't, you will walk through life ignorant of many, many historical facts.


Now this statement, I agree with... The only problem is that so many people don't know that they've missed out on anything and they don't seek additional information.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

SLD Farm said:


> . Don't let your Historical education end with what is taught in schools, read, research learn on your own. If you don't, you will walk through life ignorant of many, many historical facts.


Amen. Were it not for my desire to delve into EVERYTHING that I hear about, I would still be sadly unaware of the facts pertaining to the OP. And I am more than willing to bet that there are some people who have read this thread, who didn't know, who are researching it now, and perhaps too embarrassed to admit the omission in their own educations. And that is A-Okey Dokey as well.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

beccachow said:


> Amen. Were it not for my desire to delve into EVERYTHING that I hear about, I would still be sadly unaware of the facts pertaining to the OP. And I am more than willing to bet that there are some people who have read this thread, who didn't know, who are researching it now, and perhaps too embarrassed to admit the omission in their own educations. And that is A-Okey Dokey as well.


That is one of the reasons why I enjoy talking with people from diverse backgrounds... You can learn a lot about different perspectives and gain information about things you never knew. Learning really is a lifetime pursuit. Though I was aware of this topic, I can honestly say that I have run across many topics here at HT that I had no knowledge of.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

TheMartianChick said:


> That is one of the reasons why I enjoy talking with people from diverse backgrounds... You can learn a lot about different perspectives and gain information about things you never knew. Learning really is a lifetime pursuit. Though I was aware of this topic, I can honestly say that I have run across many topics here at HT that I had no knowledge of.


Yes, me too. And every now and then, a perspective that makes me say, "hmmm. Good point."


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## SLD Farm (Dec 19, 2007)

TheMartianChick you stated: _Then why was it acceptable to pay the decendants of the Japanese who were interred? Have you ever thought about the sheer amount of wealth that was built on the backs of slaves? The slaves never had the opportunity to "will" any of that wealth to their heirs, though they are the ones who produced it._ 
I never said that I thought it OK to pay the Japanese for their interment. Never mentioned it. That was decided within years of that happening. The interment of those people as many other examples were unfortunate, but at that time made perfect sense to those living and deciding such things.
How about all the slaves throughout history that helped us create the world we now live in? Have not their decendants benefited from it? I never owned slaves, no American living today did. We should not feel shamed or required to apologize for something that we had nothing to do with. Morals and viewpoints change overtime as I stated before. The world was a different place. What was acceptable then is not now. 
As for the opportunity to "will" the wealth they helped create? The union army did an excellent job of removing much of that wealth. Study your history of the union's march through the South and Reconstruction. Another pretty shameful event for all involved. It wasn't just whites that suffered in that war.
Poor whites also were sharecroppers, factory workers, lived in slums. If you were hurt or killed in the mills or the coal mines you were dumped at your door step and your family got evicted when they couldn't make rent. No workers comp, no life insurance nothing. The coal miner was little more than a slave to the mine companies. Everything he had was owned by the mine. He had to pay to have his tools sharpened, for his lamp oil, for his clothing. Most couldn't deal with anyone but the company stores for purchases. It was set up that he would never get out of debt to the mine company. He lived and died in debt and his family was saddled with the bill. Should the decendants of those miners and mill workers recieve compensation for all their ancestor's suffered????
I am 35 yrs old. I worked 2 jobs paying my way through school to a Bachelor's degree. I have worked hard to get where I am. When I was trying to get help for school I was told that if I was a minority or was an unmarried mother, I would be eligible for grants. I was neither, so I worked full time, went to school when I could and here today I sit. I have been given nothing. I work hard for my house and farm and all I have. Do I think I deserve a medal? No, but neither do I think I owe anyone anything either.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

scooter said:


> I wonder how much isn't being taught to our youth today? I bet that a whole generation doesn't know about the Japanese Internment camps.


They didn't teach us about the Vietnam War when I went to school in the 80s. I had heard of the war in a vague sort of way but it was just not talked about in my very conservative family and if the history classes mentioned it at all, it must have been pretty darned brief, like a paragraph or so, whereas we spent about a month on WW2.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

vickiesmom said:


> If whites had never gone to those countries and stripped it of its resources, we would notbe having this discussion.


Typical of one of your posts. you don't answer the question, you just troll.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Lilandra said:


> another thing that has been bothering me about this discussion -- being a christian is not a requirement for having a moral compass. you can have a moral compass if you don't believe in a higher power. its a common sense thing, a strong feeling of what is right and wrong and has nothing to do with religion. I bet if you do some researching you will see more wars are fought over religious beliefs and people who feel their god is the only one than there is wars fought for other reasons.
> 
> WWII proved that good people of all walks of life could be villains, saviors, or act ignorant because they were afraid to get involved. We need to learn from the actions from that war and get involved when we see social injustices, we need to be involved in our govt so it doesn't turn into a dictatorship.
> 
> ...


Post of the day award.


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## Klapton (Mar 9, 2008)

As a kid growing up in western Washington State, I worked on a farm owned by the Kawasaki family. They were detained during the war, and were fortunate to have some white friends who ensured they did not lose their farm while they were away.

This issue got lots of press in the mid 80s, when the government issued an apology, and gave some monetary compensation to the folks who were still alive.


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## reese (Jul 6, 2004)

Yes, Becky, I've known about it for the better part of my life. Grew up in a mid-west small town and learned it in school.


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## dixienc (Apr 11, 2008)

Has anyone on here ever read a book called "Strangers at the Door?" by Ann Novotny? I would suggest it to some of those posters on here who love to bash 'whitie' whether that person is German, Irish, Italian, Spanish....whatever. The book may reveal a few facts to you and open your eyes. It is not a black bashing book or a book making excuses for any countries past, but it does tell a history (from documents and journals) of immigrants that came to this country and helped to build it, even though they came as slaves, indentured servants, criminals their country did not want, the old, the sick, the weak. It also gives facts as to the changing immigration laws in the US from before the civil war to now. Very interesting reading.


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## grief (Jun 7, 2006)

beccachow:
I knew this...but then, I'm 69 years old! Also, I had an uncle (by marriage) that 
was full-blooded German - and couldn't serve in the armed forces.

As further food for though - about something I DID NOT KNOW (Sorry for the caps...
not shouting, just emphasizing.), Abe Lincoln (a hero of mine) suspended habeas
corpus during the Civil War? THAT blew me away.

grief


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

grief said:


> beccachow:
> I knew this...but then, I'm 69 years old! Also, I had an uncle (by marriage) that
> was full-blooded German - and couldn't serve in the armed forces.
> 
> ...


Lincoln also signed warrants for the arrest of Supreme Court Justices, just because they disagreed with him about the war. So talk about abuse of power..But this is for another thread and if I recall correctly has already been discussed here.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

This may be the singularily silliest thread to date. Internment camps are well known, the history of the development the bomb is also well known, the fact that the Nazi's were close to success in developing it, that refugee Jews from Europe were involved, that the Japanese did bomb the West Coast (but nothing too effective,) etc etc etc.
This is your history- as is the efforts of a few Military personnel who prevented the Japanese Americans from suffering the same fate in Hawaii, the fate of Allied military and various cilvilians in the areas taken by the Japanese,the huge effort and loss of life to win that war, the bombing of London and the hundreds of thousands of civilians murdered by the Japanese in China and the Philippines, etc etc.
If you feel the urge to beat yourself up for everything bad in your history, please feel free to do it by yourself. But don't imply that anyone else is morally required to trip down that path with you. Most people are better informed and understand that perfection is not an option. 
Bad things happen for the same reason that a dog licks it's rear - because it can. To date, no group of people has ever demonstrated sainthood if they could avoid it. Being a victim does not confer sainthood. And no one really likes to be around the saintly either. They are too difficult.


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

where I want to said:


> This may be the singularily silliest thread to date. Internment camps are well known, the history of the development the bomb is also well known, the fact that the Nazi's were close to success in developing it, that refugee Jews from Europe were involved, that the Japanese did bomb the West Coast (but nothing too effective,) etc etc etc.
> This is your history- as is the efforts of a few Military personnel who prevented the Japanese Americans from suffering the same fate in Hawaii, the fate of Allied military and various cilvilians in the areas taken by the Japanese,the huge effort and loss of life to win that war, the bombing of London and the hundreds of thousands of civilians murdered by the Japanese in China and the Philippines, etc etc.
> If you feel the urge to beat yourself up for everything bad in your history, please feel free to do it by yourself. But don't imply that anyone else is morally required to trip down that path with you. Most people are better informed and understand that perfection is not an option.
> Bad things happen for the same reason that a dog licks it's rear - because it can. To date, no group of people has ever demonstrated sainthood if they could avoid it. Being a victim does not confer sainthood. And no one really likes to be around the saintly either. They are too difficult.



This is not a silly thread. The discussion might have gotten a bit off of the origional topic a couple of times but that doesn't mean the thread is silly. Just because something is well known to some doesn't mean that everyone knows about it. To berate or belittle someone because they weren't aware of something that you, or I for that matter, feel is well known is not a very nice thing to do.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

I read most of this thread, not all of it, so if someone has posted something similar please ignore my contribution... which is going to make some flame me, no doubt. But what I speak is the truth.

I, me, personally, believe I owe no one reparation for anything. I have never owned slaves, I have never interned anyone, I have never imprisoned or wronged anyone for their ethnicity or religious beliefs. 

I owe no apologies for the past that I had no hand in shaping, and I certainly owe none of the money I earn to people who have never been enslaved (descendants of slaves) never been interned (descendants of those interned). Slaves have been gone for well over 140 years. WWII has been over for decades. I am sympathetic towards people dead and still alive who suffered. But I owe no one anything, and no one owes me. If I DID believe this way, the Bolsheviks would owe me massive restitution. But I'd be out of luck collecting that from Russia, wouldn't I?

People who use the past as a crutch for whatever they can get at other's expense is wrong. We all are responsible for ourselves, each individual can choose to make choices for themselves and how they live their lives. I choose to take care of myself and my own. I rely on no one. People are always stronger when they stand without crutches.

ETA to the OP's original question... yes, I have known about the Japanese camps since I was a teenager. I suppose education was more comprehensive in the 70's. I also read a lot and try to educate myself on a broad range of topics.


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## vickiesmom (Feb 25, 2005)

JuliaAnn said:


> I read most of this thread, not all of it, so if someone has posted something similar please ignore my contribution... which is going to make some flame me, no doubt. But what I speak is the truth.
> 
> I, me, personally, believe I owe no one reparation for anything. I have never owned slaves, I have never interned anyone, I have never imprisoned or wronged anyone for their ethnicity or religious beliefs.
> 
> ...


No, sometimes they just fall over. I don't think this is a silly thread at all. If you do not know, there is no shame in learning. I applaud the OP for posting this and admitting she did not know. It is very hard to admit you are wrong or ignorant about something, and look how much she has learned by posting it. I do not think, as an A/A people use the past as a crutch, and people who think that are missing the point as usual. EVERYONE who has suffered some injustice at the hands (sometimes not even where America is concerned) has been compensated. Jews who suffered in Germany, Native Americans, Japanese, but when it comes to descendants of slaves....it becomes a moot point. Personally, I don't care. I believe the saying about America which I paraphrase: America will always do what is best after all other options have been exhausted.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

where I want to said:


> This may be the singularily silliest thread to date. Internment camps are well known, the history of the development the bomb is also well known, the fact that the Nazi's were close to success in developing it, that refugee Jews from Europe were involved, that the Japanese did bomb the West Coast (but nothing too effective,) etc etc etc.
> This is your history- as is the efforts of a few Military personnel who prevented the Japanese Americans from suffering the same fate in Hawaii, the fate of Allied military and various cilvilians in the areas taken by the Japanese,the huge effort and loss of life to win that war, the bombing of London and the hundreds of thousands of civilians murdered by the Japanese in China and the Philippines, etc etc.
> If you feel the urge to beat yourself up for everything bad in your history, please feel free to do it by yourself. But don't imply that anyone else is morally required to trip down that path with you. Most people are better informed and understand that perfection is not an option.
> Bad things happen for the same reason that a dog licks it's rear - because it can. To date, no group of people has ever demonstrated sainthood if they could avoid it. Being a victim does not confer sainthood. And no one really likes to be around the saintly either. They are too difficult.


PPOTD award..figure it out.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

I smile every time I hear an old episode of Paul Harvey's "The Rest of the Story" because I don't think we ever get all of the story. I think any time we get a new piece of the story we're just getting a little more, but we may never know the whole story on anything. I can live with that.:happy:


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote "No, sometimes they just fall over."

WHY do they "just fall over"? What does that even mean? Are you implying that people become so terribly incapable because of something that did not happen to them personally but to their ancestors that they must be compensated? Baloney. A good portion of my family was wiped out in eastern Europe-- no one has compensated ME or my family. So the argument that 'everyone' who has suffered persecution has been compensated is factually incorrect. I could point out several other cultures during recent history that have also not receieved compensation. Who's compensating the Roma people? No one, that's who! And at what point is the compensation considered paid in full, and over and done with? How many more generations of the descendants of slaves will continue to demand apologies and payment? 

For the country as a whole to move on from racism, EVERYONE has to let go of past hurts and hatreds, and that includes African Americans who are racist against whites.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

JuliaAnn said:


> Quote "No, sometimes they just fall over." WHY do they "just fall over"? What does that even mean? Are you implying that people become so terribly incapable because of something that did not happen to them personally but to their ancestors that they must be compensated? QUOTE]
> 
> Yes, that is exactly what she is saying. If you have read any of her posts you will find out quickly how she is a "victim" and regularly plays the race card to fuel her blame game.


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## vickiesmom (Feb 25, 2005)

LOL! shanzone, stop trolling! Julianne gave a dumb analogy, and I replied. It does not matter if you think I am racist, I know I am not, just as you know you are not.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

I am not trolling, just making others aware of how you present yourself in discussions. Her comment was not an analogy, and it is only "dumb" to you because you don't agree with it, but many others on this forum and myself do.


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## John Carter (Oct 6, 2004)

Did you know the Japs regularly be headed captured American soldiers?
Have you ever heard of the rape of Nanking?
Did you know the Japs ordered the execution of all American POW s in the Philippines when MacArthur landed?

Go cry a tear for the Americans who died putting down that hateful race.


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

During the rape of Nanjing, the largest Tokyo Daily reported the race between army Lieutenants to be the first to behead 100 Chinese prisoners as US papers would report the World Series. The Rape of Nanking by Iris Chang is well worth your time to read it.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

We cannot fairly judge the actions of 70 years ago. Every thing has to be put into the context of the time.
You may not have known that they were rounded up and kept on "reservations", so I'm thinking you may not know 1707 U.S. civilians were killed, including 6 that were killed in Oregon by Japanese balloon bombs. Did he say Japanese balloon bombs? Yup.

What action saved thousands of servicemen's lives? We dropped a couple atomic bombs on their cities. Yup, women and children.

There were spies and potential terriorists among the Japanese living here. We rounded them all up because we couldn't tell the good from the bad.

That won't happen today. We are politicly correct. We'll leave the Muslims alone and allow the few terriorists among them to cripple our country. 

It is fun to criticize, 70 years later. But you must remember this victory wasn't a slam dunk. We almost lost it. If what the Japanese were doing to China is any example, we would have loved the treatment we gave the Japanese.


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## secretcreek (Jan 24, 2010)

Yldrosie said:


> Did you know, that there actually WERE japanese spies here. And there were japanese submarines off the coast of CA, and people were scared to death it would be another Pearl Harbor. Enough apoligizing for WW2. We weren't there,most of us, and don't understand what was going on. Most of that history has been re-written for the PC generation.


Don't forget WWII.....was a war, an ugly war like all wars are, but there's always a bigger story to be told then most will ever hear- Does any country go to war "just because"?

9000 Japanese balloon bombs were sent toward the USA to explode upon landing. Only 1000 made the trip across the Pacific...mostly known about in Oregon where a family died in the explosion. But the balloons landed whereever the jetstream dropped them off.

http://www.japaneseballoonbombs.com/


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

You know, I fail to see anyone here apologizing or beating themselves up over anything, though a few posters have claimed to interpreted this thread as such. The closest I ever came to doing so was feeling silly for not knowing an important piece of history. I never thought for a minute we were blameless...one look at our treatment of Native Americans is proof of that. Contary to being the silly thread alluded to, I have found this thread enlightening and interesting. I will repeat one more time...during the Reagan years, I was three years out of High School and cared very little at the age of 20 of politics. WHile I am unhappy that I didn't learn about this, I find it interesting and have researched the subject matter at hand. 

Angels? No, on either side. Guilty feelings? No. However, if we are to learn anything from history, it must be taught and understood so the same mistakes are not made again.

If you find this thread the silliest you have ever read, really, you must be kind of new here; I have read way more silly threads than this. Sorry if American History bores you so much.  I find it quite interesting, and so, apparently, do several others on thsi forum.

My mom always said, if you can't say something nice...


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

beccachow said:


> My mom always said, if you can't say something nice...


I have always said, "If you can't say anything nice, come sit by me!"

Seriously, not a silly thread at all. Forums are the place for discussions. It just saddens me when people try to ruin a discussion by throwing in the race card.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Tiempo said:


> PPOTD award..figure it out.


I have tried to figure it out, and I am assuming it was not a nice award. Why is someone starting a discussion about something they know little about silly? I admire her for reaching out for information.

I will call it PPOTD
Provacative Post Of The Day


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

For some people, it hurts to think. It is literally painful to break out of the little molds cast around them by parents, culture, or public education.

And when they are confronted with something that challenges that worldview they hold on to so dearly ... they lash out.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

haypoint said:


> we cannot fairly judge the actions of 70 years ago. Every thing has to be put into the context of the time.
> You may not have known that they were rounded up and kept on "reservations", so i'm thinking you may not know 1707 u.s. Civilians were killed, including 6 that were killed in oregon by japanese balloon bombs. Did he say japanese balloon bombs? Yup.
> 
> What action saved thousands of servicemen's lives? We dropped a couple atomic bombs on their cities. Yup, women and children.
> ...


potda.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Internment of Japanese was a fact in WW2 in this nation. It was at it's worst along the west coast and Hawaii. People were afraid of them.


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## Patt (May 18, 2003)

Guess you never saw The Karate Kid eh?  I am also surprised you hadn't heard of this.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Patt said:


> Guess you never saw The Karate Kid eh?  I am also surprised you hadn't heard of this.


WHAT??? This was referenced in Karate Kid??? Boy, I was young and oblivious!


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## Patt (May 18, 2003)

beccachow said:


> WHAT??? This was referenced in Karate Kid??? Boy, I was young and oblivious!


Mr Miyagi went in the US military during WWII. His wife and daughter were taken into one of the American concentration camps and died there.


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## Farmerwilly2 (Oct 14, 2006)

See how far we've come. You didn't see us locking up all the moslems after they did their sneak attack on 9/11. Hurray for US restraint!!


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## deb (Jul 27, 2002)

plowjockey said:


> Wow, when did being a "self loathing" American, replace baseball, as America's favorite pastime?
> 
> How hard it is to believe, that as a great country, we are indeed not a perfect country? We have made mistakes, some quite large. Many did or do not have an easy fix.
> 
> My country makes mistakes, but I am _*never*_ ashamed of it.


Why can't you be ashamed of your country?

deb
in wi


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I do owe an apology for the snippy remark about silliness.
But this is so much deeper of a situation that the usual America done someone wrong theme. I think it is a great disservice to be simplistic.
I had an old scrap book from my mother where she clipped newspaper reports about WWII, including the Japanese internment issue. She cut out articles to follow where she thought my father was in various battles and put in the short notices he was allowed to send prior to going into battle. 
THere were a lot of articles on how to tell Chinese immigrants from Japanese. The Chinese were our allies and the Japanese were our enemies. It was patriotic to support Chinese but not Japanese.
The internment happened for a lot of reasons- first of course it was based on racism of a few powerful politicians on the West Coast who levered the President and his administration into this order. FDR simply seemed to feel he had bigger fish to fry than to get into a battle with these issue. 
Then the fear of invasion that existed on the West Coast after Pearl Harbor was pretty exteme and there were almost no voices raised for reason. It is easy to condemn it now but it was not clear at the time that the US would not be fighting on it's own shores. Most people were afraid and willing to follow the directions of people who were loudly willing to tell them what to do.
Also, the Japanese community had a lot of immigrants in it and, like many immigrant communities, felt more comfortable associating with each other. The younger generation was more intergrated. But they didn't have a voice.
But whites were very willing to accept the idea that "orientals" were unknowable and probably evil as they basically hardly knew each other. So they let these things happen out of fear (drummed up in the papers and egged on by many leaders,) and ignorance of the quality of the Japanese.
In Hawaii, a few sympathetic military commanders plus effective Japanese social organizations basically circumvented this order. Hawaiins have a right to be proud of this.
I could go on but it is enough to show that this happened because of fear and venality. To understand this is to understand how it could happen again with a slightly different scenerio because of the paralysis caused by fear and the doubts sewn by hysterical commentaries. We all would not be immune to this fear- to understand this fact is the only chance to have a different result in spite of the fear.


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

Where I want to, I agree that it basically happened because of fear. It's easy to fear the unknown or unfamiliar and fear can be a powerful motivator. It was probably much easier back then to be fearful simply because there was simply less information available for folks to use to form their own opinions. Back then, people pretty much knew what was in their newspapers and on the radio. Television and the internet weren't everywhere like they are now. It's easy now to get enough information on our own to form informed opinions. Travel is also much easier and more common than it was then so most of us have more exposure to other cultures than the average person had in the 1940's. That exposure to other cultures and easy access to information is, in my opinion, the best hope to prevent something like that from happening again.


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