# Ancestry DNA



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

We decided to do one of those DNA tests recently, we used Ancestry's. Pretty interesting. We have dabbled in genealogy but never gotten into it very deep. Most of our results lined up with what we had found or heard passed down. The biggest surpise for us was finding out more husband was the mostly Irish one and I was the mostly Scottish one. We had always thought it was the opposite. 

I got to wondering though how many people get serious shocks when they get it back. We were just talking about how so many claim a Native American ancestor for example. My family didn't but his did. According to the DNA not a drop in either of us. No biggie really. 

But I was thinking what if you found out you had something completely unknown and unexpected like say Jewish grandparent you never knew about? That was one we thought was a possible too because when my husband's grandfather's family came over from Germany they dumped the family name and took a new one. It's a complete dead end to trace back. But no Jewish either. 

His was 71% UK and mine was 84% UK. That does explain why I am such an Anglophile I guess.  Has anyone ever done one?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I think it would be interesting, but I haven't ordered one yet. There are quite a few available and I couldn't decide which test was best. 

I'll look into the Ancestory.com one. Thanks.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

A friend did one and found out they had Jewish ancestry including the Cohen gene. No family history indicated that. They did mention one of the services was a waste of money.


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

I would like to do one but they are way too expensive for my level of interest. I understand most folks have neanderthal dna which surprises them.


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## TraderBob (Oct 21, 2010)

German and Norwegian, traced back to the 1400's in Norway, and the early 1500's in Germany (Prussia). A couple books were written on my mothers ancestors from Norway.
DNA test held no surprises. Another vote for Ancestry DNA here.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

I know some people who did them expecting to be cousins, and one had to go to his mom for an explanation cause he had a different dad than his siblings.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Some of my relatives have done them. I haven't, but our family does genealogy. It's pretty cool. We know some of our ancestors that go back over a thousand years.

A lot of people could find the same, but it takes some digging. It's very cool to read about the people from centuries ago.

I have some Spanish ancestors I would love to know more about, but haven't had much time or luck in running down info in English on them yet.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gibbsgirl said:


> I know some people who did them expecting to be cousins, and one had to go to his mom for an explanation cause he had a different dad than his siblings.


I think that would have to be the worst surprise of all.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

I have read that there are some programs out there that you can plug your DNA results into and it will break them down even more. I know the UK has split DNA out by regions. I would really like to do that to narrow things down a bit more. Have any of you met relatives via the DNA matches?


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> I think that would have to be the worst surprise of all.


There was some good, but obviously not all that came of it. I don't want to over share the details here. But, I think the thing that I felt worst of all for them about it, was that because if the circumstances there was no easy way to sort of let it be privately sorted out between only those that really needed to be involved. I think he's s mom sort of felt relieved. His "two" dad's had died already and I don't know if either ever knew.

My dad had to drop what he was doing and catch a plane to him when it happened, cause they needed face to face time to help sort out what to do. We love them all lots, and I was glad dad could be there for them and they asked for help getting it sorted, cause I think we were all blessed with how it's playing out. It definitely could have been worse, lol.


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## craftychick (Nov 11, 2013)

I used 23 & Me, found out I was mostly eastern European with a small % of Irish, German & French. Due to a medical condition, I got my test free because the researchers for my particular medical condition were trying to build a database of survivors.
The test also gave me a better idea of my risk for a wide variety of diseases including heart disease & breast cancer.

I haven't gone back to the site in a while but I have a few e-mails from 23 & Me that there is new information available. I have just been too busy to check it out.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

This nation has more kings, queens, dukes, princes , sheiks and other royalty than the rest of the world combined. It also has it's share of criminals and blackhearts as Georgia was originally a penal colony

Many of the assorted exiled or descended of royalty as those with a ancestry line rooted in a criminal element start in history hold control of small businesses, limousines and cabs, table stations in cafes, etc.

Whenever I am asked what I am, I just say American bred mutt.


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## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

I submitted a DNA sample to an outfit called Family Tree DNA at the request of my cousin. My surname is Scottish but the clan has been unrecognized for a long time. Now a group of folks with this same name is going through a lengthy process to have the clan recognized again, and the DNA study was to figure out whether different branches had common ancestors using Y-DNA markers - in other words, whether they were actually in the family. 

It was a lot of pressure, but I came through and tested my branch into the clan. We share ancestors with other family branches that trace to a specific place in Scotland where, in the 800s, our supposed ancestor was the first king of Scotland. This was big news for my cousin, who is active in clan affairs, but I am nonplussed. I don't think this proves direct descent and, anyway, it's been 1200 years - time to move on and assume responsibility for our own identities. Still, it was interesting information. And if somebody calls me up out of the blue and offers me the crown of Scotland, I may have to rethink my antimonarchical sentiments.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> I have read that there are some programs out there that you can plug your DNA results into and it will break them down even more. I know the UK has split DNA out by regions. I would really like to do that to narrow things down a bit more. Have any of you met relatives via the DNA matches?


Reminds me of interesting story about my neighbor. 

She is from El Slavador, cute accent.  Used to be interpreter for UN Married a Texan who was working in El Salvador. Her father was German but married El Salvador woman & family spoke Spanish but learned German too. A few yrs ago she learned her father escaped Germany b/c the war & was JEWISH! She's looked into it all & found cousins in Germany & all have visited, very wonderful, and touching.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

National Georaphic did a DNA study about 10 years ago. Wife and I did it. They turned the results over to Family Tree. We opted into email contact with close matches. I got about 2000 matches. Wife got less than 20. 

Off all the matches I got, less than 10 shared my surname. Of those, only one shared an identifiable forefather 7 generations back. 

Pretty cool. 

Nat Geo identified me as nonAfrican African (I guess that means white) and my wife as African African. It showed our ancestory path from Africa in ancient times traversing Asia and Europe to America and places that English sailors visited. There seemed to be more detail for me than my wife. 

I'd encourage everyone to do it. The cost has really come down. 

Btw - I can go back to the late 1600s, my surname came from England and settled first in Long Island. My people always moved when population density rose where they were. 

I think we preferred the backwoods from the beginning of our American journey.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I find it so interesting that some people I see on here so worried about privacy would send their DNA to some unknown company... 

:hijacked:


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

We have a friend who did this although I am not sure which company he used. His family is very Italian. They have an Italian last name, gave their kids Italian first names to continue the family heritage, etc. When the DNA info came back, they identified them as mostly Gypsy with a little bit of Italian (less than 5%).


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Did you know some, if not most, gypsy heritage is subcontinent Indian?


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

I think it's fun to read about the royal people. Most of them have lots of stories, some mighty and epic, lots though are about scandal, crime, shadiness.

My daughter used to say she was part princess and thought it was unique. Her opinion has changed as she's aged. Seemed to coincide a bit with her image of princesses expending beyond Disney versions and moving into those described in BBC documentaries, lol.


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## KentuckyDreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

I chose family tree dna very disappointed. Others like it. I chose the test just below the most expensive. I was told not to do the expensive one because not enough people have done it to be of benefit. Whatever.

My brother tested for our male dna.....just gave us percentages of origins. No useful info. I have been seriously into genealogy for fifteen years so no surprises. No connections other than those I had helped in the past. I wish I had chosen 23 and me. Results do not be compared from one site to another. 

Flip side; another family member submitted dna for their paternal linage. Got the name Levingston/Livingston connected with Leibenstien/Lowenstien. I can easily see that translating. They were pleased with the breakthrough.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

I have tried to trace my family roots, but can't get past my great grand father that was believed to be born in 1828. Would DNA help???


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

po boy said:


> I have tried to trace my family roots, but can't get past my great grand father that was believed to be born in 1828. Would DNA help???


If you allow matches to help you fill in the blanks it can help.

It is more a confirmation than a true genealogy substitute.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

po boy said:


> I have tried to trace my family roots, but can't get past my great grand father that was believed to be born in 1828. Would DNA help???


DNA and paper tracing your genealogy isn't foolproof or 100% IMO. It's just the best guess that scientists and historians can offer to others at whatever point in time they are made use of.

If your stuck at one relative, my advice is to branch out your searching into siblings and spouses or children of or near his generation in the family tree. Sometimes that helps link up to others who have more information about where the chains connect to the person you're looking for indirectly.

Eta. Check variations in spellings. That happens a lot in censuses and such. But, you can confirm that it's the correct person with other incidental info. Ex. Name might be Johann lintz, then on another record jon leetz. But, if they have the persons other info correct and shows the correct names and ages for spouses and children, then it's usually assumed to be the same person


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

simi-steading said:


> I find it so interesting that some people I see on here so worried about privacy would send their DNA to some unknown company...
> 
> :hijacked:


I was a little worried about that at first but my son pointed out that the military collected DNA from all of us to use for identification of remains if needed so they already had ours anyway.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Lots of interesting stories, thanks for sharing.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

My daughter and I both had ours done. We were both supposed to have American Indian, but she was the only one it was proved in. (her great-great grandmother on her father's side was Choctaw/Creek)

I thought I'd be mostly English, but ended up mostly Irish, she was supposed to be more Irish but ended up mostly English. Go figure.

Mon


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

I did ancestry DNA. Found out that I am part African (we suspected, but, had no conformation) The rest was a mix of northern Europeans.


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## KentuckyDreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

po boy said:


> I have tried to trace my family roots, but can't get past my great grand father that was believed to be born in 1828. Would DNA help???


I hope you break that brick wall....I have a few but keep hammering away. There are so many resources that are not online. Hard work to say the least. It helps to be OCD.:lookout:


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## FeralFemale (Apr 10, 2006)

My mix. My sister is significantly more Italian with Scandinavia as just a trace. Interesting how that works out, same parents contributing same dna and seeing what mix wins out. Wish I had more siblings to test. Dh has a mess of siblings. I should send tests to them


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

FeralFemale said:


> My mix. My sister is significantly more Italian with Scandinavia as just a trace. Interesting how that works out, same parents contributing same dna and seeing what mix wins out. Wish I had more siblings to test. Dh has a mess of siblings. I should send tests to them


Yeah. That's why I think it's almost a nature vs nurture thing to trace heritage/ancestry. Are we our DNA (nature) or the cultural/geographical history (nurture) or both?

Interesting stuff though.


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

If you haven't already, I would strongly encourage you to upload your DNA test results to GEDmatch.com - it's free and much more informative than Ancestry - you can see not just who you match but how - ie which genes you share. Then you can triangulate other matches. It also has a really cool eye colour predictor - yes, I know what colour my eyes are - but it is crazy to see how many genes are involved in that.

Also, if you don't have many siblings, test your cousins! Very useful for sorting out matches.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

mistletoad said:


> If you haven't already, I would strongly encourage you to upload your DNA test results to GEDmatch.com - it's free and much more informative than Ancestry - you can see not just who you match but how - ie which genes you share. Then you can triangulate other matches. It also has a really cool eye colour predictor - yes, I know what colour my eyes are - but it is crazy to see how many genes are involved in that.
> 
> Also, if you don't have many siblings, test your cousins! Very useful for sorting out matches.


Ah this is what I was looking for. Thanks.


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

Ancestry has a sale coming up on their DNA tests - on Black Friday the tests will be $69 rather than $99. I have links but they pay me a commission so I don't think I can share them here.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

I may see if I can get my Mom to do one. She did 23andme I think. Oh and I uploaded my results into that GEDmatch. Interested to see what they come up with.


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## Maria (Apr 24, 2003)

My husband and I did 23andme, and then talked our parents and adult kids into doing it.

I'd never been told I had Native American ancestry, but when a smidge came up in my test and I mentioned it to my parents, my dad said there was a rumor to that effect. Turns out the NA DNA came from him after all.  He's in his 70s. I guess he was going to let that rumor die. 

The test has also been very helpful this year in figuring out a health issue. Turns out I have the MTHFR gene defect (wasn't even listed on the 23andme health report, but does show up on the promethease report) This is a BIG deal. It makes a big difference on what vitamins your body can process. I was well on my way into a vitamin deficiency disease, and have reversed it. 

Hooray for genetic testing!


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Avoid 23andMe. A friend found their results were bogus. FDA issued a cease and desist order to them for some reason in the past. Genebase according to my friend was the most complete. Ancestry may use 23andMe. Nat Geo may be OK.


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## hoddedloki (Nov 14, 2014)

Two ways to approach the problem; You can try to go the genetic testing route, but that will tell you what your genetic makeup is, but not your bloodlines. If you want actual names (great great grand pa Joe Wilakers was born in 1799...) the bet thing that you can do is look at the birth certificates, the death certificates, and the marriage licenses. This is the slow and boring but very accurate way to do it. 

For example, you know your great grandfather's name and birth date. If you know where he was born, you can ask for a non-official copy of his birth certificate for genealogical purposes from the county he was born in. This will have his parents name, ages, and often their location of origin. Essentially, you follow the genealogical bread crumbs as far back as you can, which can be quite a ways... If you have questions and/or are interested in getting it done, let me know, and I'll help how I can.

Regards,
Loki


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## hoddedloki (Nov 14, 2014)

23 and me is not bogus. What the FDA issued the cease and desist order on was that they were using the test results to give you predictions on your chances of various health related issues that the FDA had not yet issued guidelines on how such things are to be regulated, which was de facto counted as the company giving medical advice via the use of an unregulated medical device. (the tech was so new that the FDA had to issue the cease and desist order because they realized that the company was doing something that the FDA didn't even have a regulatory framework in place.) 23 and Me is now working with the FDA to create the standards which will regulate genetic testing and predictions, but have not yet received full FDA blessing because the FDA is still figuring out what they are blessing. If you are interested, I can get more technical as to the whats and the whys of the research and the FDA process.

Short answer, 23 and Me is gives the most information, both in a summary and in the raw data. 

Regards,
Loki


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

My brother used Ancestry for his DNA test. We have a Gr.Grandmother on the Dawes Rolls, and it came back saying no American Indian..I told him to ask for a refund..lol


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

hoddedloki said:


> 23 and me is not bogus. What the FDA issued the cease and desist order on was that they were using the test results to give you predictions on your chances of various health related issues that the FDA had not yet issued guidelines on how such things are to be regulated, which was de facto counted as the company giving medical advice via the use of an unregulated medical device. (the tech was so new that the FDA had to issue the cease and desist order because they realized that the company was doing something that the FDA didn't even have a regulatory framework in place.) 23 and Me is now working with the FDA to create the standards which will regulate genetic testing and predictions, but have not yet received full FDA blessing because the FDA is still figuring out what they are blessing. If you are interested, I can get more technical as to the whats and the whys of the research and the FDA process.
> 
> Short answer, 23 and Me is gives the most information, both in a summary and in the raw data.
> 
> ...


Copy of email referenced and reason for issue with 23and Me other than genetic diseases.

"Inaccurate: 23andme ($100) The FDA gave them a cease and desist order because they had no science to back up their claims of finding genetic diseases. What they were doing was taking the person's physical history as reported by the person and cobbling together a gamish of "Scientifically" proven DNA data points pointing to diseases with those symptoms. It was all false. 

I think they have cleaned up their act but people like my daughter ***** can't get them to redo her mtDNA data even though scientifically it is absolutely false. ***** cannot have mtDNA different from me, her brother or her son. For example: I, my son and her son are all: H24. Mine had been analyzed more finely so it turns out to be: H24a1 

Anecstry.com does a Haploid and mtDNA analysis but they reference 23andMe and that makes it very suspicious to me. 


Most accurate: Nat Geo ($150) I haven't gotten their information back yet. I wanted to be part of their international gene base because I think it is important that all of us know what groups we are related to...maybe we will not kill each other with such frequency. They may have the largest genetic base of all the companies."


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Can DNA testing help stupid people decide which bathroom to use?


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## tiffnzacsmom (Jan 26, 2006)

DNA can be used to tell if someone is intersexed or a Chymiria. It can't tell someone if their stupid but those that are don't seem to realize it or care.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

It would be interesting. My family has been kicked out of most eastern European Countries. We claim Austria but between our politics and the turks who knows.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

hoddedloki said:


> Two ways to approach the problem; You can try to go the genetic testing route, but that will tell you what your genetic makeup is, but not your bloodlines. If you want actual names (great great grand pa Joe Wilakers was born in 1799...) the bet thing that you can do is look at the birth certificates, the death certificates, and the marriage licenses. This is the slow and boring but very accurate way to do it.
> 
> For example, you know your great grandfather's name and birth date. If you know where he was born, you can ask for a non-official copy of his birth certificate for genealogical purposes from the county he was born in. This will have his parents name, ages, and often their location of origin. Essentially, you follow the genealogical bread crumbs as far back as you can, which can be quite a ways... If you have questions and/or are interested in getting it done, let me know, and I'll help how I can.
> 
> ...



Lol way off base !
Everyone knows paperwork and reality bare little relationship to each other. 

What you get is the lies people agree to record as history. 

For instance in my family tree there is a relative who managed to have three children while imprisoned in the South during the Civil War. 
At the time of birth certificates were correctly recorded as him being the father and the mother of course being the mother. 
Later on it became a family embarrassment and various wills and other legal documents mention his adopted children. 

However recently my mother has found documentation of his release on vacation from prison which was apparently a common thing during the Civil War. 
Guess what ? they line up perfectly with the conception dates of the children.


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## hoddedloki (Nov 14, 2014)

While family paper records may be off base, you just proved my point about them being the best starting place for most folks. Official paperwork tends to be relatively truthful, as the officials signing the paperwork usually have little reason to lie. While you can use family lore as a basis for your ancestry, best practice is to go back to the official documents, just as you did, which can give the most trusted answer. That is the policy of the American Genealogical Society, and they are the experts in this.

Loki


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## tiffnzacsmom (Jan 26, 2006)

There has always been cases of "Mama's baby, daddy's maybe" and official records don't show that. I have an ancestor who's mother is solely listed as "young housekeeper" on official documents. I'm pretty sure that wasn't her name.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Well I did have a teacher once who's last name was Young but I'm fairly sure his first name wasn't housekeeper.


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## hoddedloki (Nov 14, 2014)

How many folks have a last name that starts with Fitz...? (Bastard of_____), which cannot be proven. The paperwork is rarely perfect, but it is usually the best of the options for getting more consistent results than can be dredged from Aunt Emma's failing memory. The other bonus is that the official paperwork is usually what is recognized by the state as being official (being descended from folks who rode the Mayflower, SCV, determining Tribal status, etc.)

Loki


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

NatGeo actually tests mitochondrial DNA, Y if you have that chromosome, X, and Autosomal. They're the best by a lot, as far as I've read. I've been planning to submit a test.


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

Susie and I just did the Ancestry DNA test. We are waiting for the results now.

We both have been researching our Ancestry and I am back to my 8th great-grandfather on my Mother's side of the family. I am waiting on a cousin to get me information on my Mothers' Dad side of the family.

I was always told that I was Scot-Irish and so far I have found ancestors that were from England, Scotland and France. One of my relatives is listed as Black on her Census from the 1800's.

One thing that has amazed me so far is how long people lived back in the 1600,1700 and 1800's. I always thought that they lived to be in the 40-60's but mine have lived to be in their 80-100's. To me that is amazing considering how tough the conditions were back then to live.

Susie was told that she is mostly German, French, Cherokee and Cajun. We shall see. We do know there is a town in Germany named after relatives on her father's side.

I will post results when we get them.


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

I read an article a few days ago, don't remember where, that 23 and me is selling its'
DNA database for a medical study. The only way to prove ancestry is documenting it
which can be a real trial. My family have been documented as arriving in North America in 1637 and being among the founders of several states and the US. It is very interesting to know where one comes from.


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## PermaAMP (Jun 13, 2013)

Two of my aunts have had the ancestry DNA test done. The results were a bit shocking for one of them. Turns out she's a half sister! It was rumored that she had a different father but I don't think any of them wanted to believe it. Seeing as how my grandmother and grandfather both had brown eyes and my aunts are hazel I don't see how it was a question.

I've ordered mine out of curiosity. I should get it next week so just another couple months and I'll see my own results.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

xymenah said:


> Two of my aunts have had the ancestry DNA test done. The results were a bit shocking for one of them. Turns out she's a half sister! It was rumored that she had a different father but I don't think any of them wanted to believe it. Seeing as how my grandmother and grandfather both had brown eyes and my aunts are hazel I don't see how it was a question.
> 
> I've ordered mine out of curiosity. I should get it next week so just another couple months and I'll see my own results.


A woman who had her DNA done had no Black ancestry via her maternal DNA. She was obviously present for the birth of a daughter and awake the entire time. In a nutshell there was zero chance the baby was switched. The daughter had her DNA done through 23 and me. Their analysis shows the daughter has Black ancestry via the maternal DNA which is impossible.


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## tiffnzacsmom (Jan 26, 2006)

Is mom possibly a Chimera?


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## PermaAMP (Jun 13, 2013)

Darren said:


> A woman who had her DNA done had no Black ancestry via her maternal DNA. She was obviously present for the birth of a daughter and awake the entire time. In a nutshell there was zero chance the baby was switched. The daughter had her DNA done through 23 and me. Their analysis shows the daughter has Black ancestry via the maternal DNA which is impossible.


The story was that my grandmother had a fling with an Italian inmigrant. The results showed my aunt as being 40% Italian. When compared with my other aunts results(0% Italian) the other half of the test matched up. I have no doubts that the story was true. My grandmother had no Italian in her.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

tiffnzacsmom said:


> Is mom possibly a Chimera?


Even if Mom is a Chimera, she'd have to have had a twin in utero who was not her full biological sister, otherwise the ancestry results would be the same. Which is possible, but that means that her mother would have to have been fooling around with 2 men at the same time, so not much less scandalous... just moves the scandal back a generation!

My parents have both done the Ancestory DNA and they got back the results they anticipated.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

xymenah said:


> Two of my aunts have had the ancestry DNA test done. The results were a bit shocking for one of them. Turns out she's a half sister! It was rumored that she had a different father but I don't think any of them wanted to believe it. Seeing as how my grandmother and grandfather both had brown eyes and my aunts are hazel I don't see how it was a question.
> 
> I've ordered mine out of curiosity. I should get it next week so just another couple months and I'll see my own results.


I am curious to hear if your experience was similar to my wife's and mine.

Maternal data was not as complete, or even present as paternal.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

xymenah said:


> *The story was that my grandmother had a fling with an Italian inmigrant.* The results showed my aunt as being 40% Italian. When compared with my other aunts results(0% Italian) the other half of the test matched up. I have no doubts that the story was true. *My grandmother had no Italian in her.*


:hysterical:


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

tiffnzacsmom said:


> Is mom possibly a Chimera?


No. *The results the daughter got from 23 and me were wrong.* The mother's results were recently confirmed by an uncle who knew ancestral info that wasn't passed down on her side of the family.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Darren said:


> :hysterical:


I see what you did there.


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## PermaAMP (Jun 13, 2013)

Darren said:


> :hysterical:


Oh god. You got me there. ound:


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

This website gets way too serious at times. A little humor never hurts even if it's unintentional. I can imagine your grandmother someplace smiling.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> What you get is the lies people agree to record as history.


I would have to agree. 

On my Father's side of the family - there is much scandal. Apparently mental illness and infidelity ran rampant! :grin:

My Grandmother had 7 brothers and 4 sisters.

I know for a fact that 2 out of 7 of the brothers were in mental institutions at one time or another. From some of the stories I've gathered and read between the lines, I believe their Father was not stable (I've heard one time the Father went around and blew out all the natural gas pilot lights in the house. Several of his children had to restrain him.)

Then there is the stoary of how two of the brothers were involved with the same woman around the same time - (not a threeesome - but she did "mess" with both brothers) - and apparently others! She became pregnant and so she had no clue who the real Father was.

Then there is the story of my Grandmother finding her own sister in bed with her husband (my Grandfather).


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Michael W. Smith said:


> Then there is the stoary of how two of the brothers were involved with the same woman around the same time - (not a threeesome - but she did "mess" with both brothers) - and apparently others! She became pregnant and so she had no clue who the real Father was.


My ex-husband's cousin knew a lady who had been dating the same guy for a few years, she got pregnant and he decided the baby wasn't his and he didn't want to support it. Baby was born, and man that kid was the spitting image of the alleged baby-daddy, still he didn't want to claim it...so he demanded a DNA test. DNA test came back that the baby was NOT his, however the baby shared enough DNA with him that it was certain that the daddy was a close male relative to him . Upon those results coming in, the momma declared "well , we're gonna have to test his brother and his daddy then I guess......" eep: I forget which one of them ended up "winning" the distinction of baby daddy, but I'll never forget the drama around that one.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Now you know why Jewishness is matrilineal. You always knew who the mother was. The father ... meh.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Darren said:


> Now you know why Jewishness is matrilineal. You always knew who the mother was. The father ... meh.


It's also why the Egyptian Pharaohs married their sisters....that way even if it wasn't the Pharaoh's baby, it was still his sister's so it still carried on the royal bloodline.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Patchouli said:


> We decided to do one of those DNA tests recently, we used Ancestry's. Pretty interesting. We have dabbled in genealogy but never gotten into it very deep. Most of our results lined up with what we had found or heard passed down. The biggest surpise for us was finding out more husband was the mostly Irish one and I was the mostly Scottish one. We had always thought it was the opposite.
> 
> I got to wondering though how many people get serious shocks when they get it back. We were just talking about how so many claim a Native American ancestor for example. My family didn't but his did. According to the DNA not a drop in either of us. No biggie really.
> 
> ...


You should try the company 23andme next. For only $100 they parse your whole genome and give you recommendations based on your genetic composition. It's beyond fascinating as it will completely change the way the medical industry works. (Eventually. There's always a serious time lag between inventions and implementation.)


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Heritagefarm said:


> You should try the company 23andme next. For only $100 they parse your whole genome and give you recommendations based on your genetic composition. It's beyond fascinating as it will completely change the way the medical industry works. (Eventually. There's always a serious time lag between inventions and implementation.)


The price has gone up. It is now $199. No doubt a direct result of the recent dust up they had with the FDA over their medical tests. If I didn't know any better, I would think that the FDA just wanted their cut of the money as a DNA test is neither drug nor food.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Farmerga said:


> The price has gone up. It is now $199. No doubt a direct result of the recent dust up they had with the FDA over their medical tests. If I didn't know any better, I would think that the FDA just wanted their cut of the money as a DNA test is neither drug nor food.


Nothing to do with that; $100 was below production cost so they could get their product out their inexpensively, get people to pay, and get a massive data pile. They were already up to 1 million participants last year, so I assume they may have that many again. They mostly needed the data pool first to figure things out.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Heritagefarm said:


> Nothing to do with that; $100 was below production cost so they could get their product out their inexpensively, get people to pay, and get a massive data pile. They were already up to 1 million participants last year, so I assume they may have that many again. They mostly needed the data pool first to figure things out.


So, it was merely a coincidence that their price increased immediately after a long, FDA mandated, suspension of their medical testing?


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Farmerga said:


> So, it was merely a coincidence that their price increased immediately after a long, FDA mandated, suspension of their medical testing?


I don't know if that had something to do with it or not. I do know the other price was artificially low. Most other places were charging $1000 for genome sequencing.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

I've already mentioned that 23andme put out bad info.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Darren said:


> I've already mentioned that 23andme put out bad info.


Anecdotal evidence.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Darren said:


> A woman who had her DNA done had no Black ancestry via her maternal DNA. She was obviously present for the birth of a daughter and awake the entire time. In a nutshell there was zero chance the baby was switched. The daughter had her DNA done through 23 and me. Their analysis shows the daughter has Black ancestry via the maternal DNA which is impossible.


It's possible to not know your entire genetic history. Did the mother get swapped? Did someone lie about parentage? Or was the black DNA hidden, generations back?


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Heritagefarm said:


> It's possible to not know your entire genetic history. Did the mother get swapped? Did someone lie about parentage? Or was the black DNA hidden, generations back?


I quizzed her on all of that. Nothing of the sort happened. The woman holds two Phds and understands genetics. 23and me was flat out wrong. The mother and her brother's dna were similar. The difference was that the daughter used 23andme. The mother and uncle did not.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Darren said:


> I quizzed her on all of that. Nothing of the sort happened. The woman holds two Phds and understands genetics. 23and me was flat out wrong. The mother and her brother's dna were similar. The difference was that the daughter used 23andme. The mother and uncle did not.


So clearly 23andme was wrong while the other company was right? How do we figure?


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

They;be been known to mix up their results and send out the wrong results to people. It may have been a simple error.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Heritagefarm said:


> So clearly 23andme was wrong while the other company was right? How do we figure?


For one thing the woman's DNA showed a Jewish connection which was unknown. She recently confirmed that by talking to an Uncle in his nineties. Most of the family left New England soon after the Revolutionary War and went to California. She hadn't talked to him in thirty of forty years. That part of the family was very aware of their Jewish ancestry.

She has both Sephardic and Ashkenazi antecedents.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Darren said:


> For one thing the woman's DNA showed a Jewish connection which was unknown. She recently confirmed that by talking to an Uncle in his nineties. Most of the family left New England soon after the Revolutionary War and went to California. She hadn't talked to him in thirty of forty years. That part of the family was very aware of their Jewish ancestry.
> 
> She has both Sephardic and Ashkenazi antecedents.


So how does she know the black ancestry is invalid?


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

"(her) daughter can't get them (23andme) to redo her mtDNA data even though scientifically it is absolutely false. (daughter) cannot have mtDNA different from me, her brother or her son. For example: I, my son and her son are all: H24. Mine had been analyzed more finely so it turns out to be: H24a1"


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Darren said:


> "(her) daughter can't get them (23andme) to redo her mtDNA data even though scientifically it is absolutely false. (daughter) cannot have mtDNA different from me, her brother or her son. For example: I, my son and her son are all: H24. Mine had been analyzed more finely so it turns out to be: H24a1"


Is this an incorrect analysis or is everyone actually H24a1 instead of H24?


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

The mother had a more complete analysis of her DNA. She's an H24a1 which is a subset. The analysis of the daughter's son and brother which was not as extensive is H24. The analysis was not as extensive. The daughter has to be H24** too. She received it from her mother and passed it down to her son.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Darren said:


> The mother had a more complete analysis of her DNA. She's an H24a1 which is a subset. The analysis of the daughter's son and brother which was not as extensive is H24. The analysis was not as extensive. The daughter has to be H24** too. She received it from her mother and passed it down to her son.


Granted. How does she know she does NOT have African ancestry? I'm honestly just curious. Of course if it's personal medical info I understand.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

The daughter only had her mitochondrial DNA tested which is transmitted from the mother. Given that the daughter's son's and brother's mitochondrial DNA are the same as the daughter's mother's, as it should be, it makes it impossible that the daughter can have a different result. 

The only difference is that the daughter used 23andme. Since the result is incorrect, something happened at 23andme that resulted in the bogus result for the daughter. The mother had her own lab with her medical practice and worked in other labs as a PhD pathologist. Although she didn't do DNA tests, she's very familiar with correct lab practices. She's concerned about the implications of her daughter's bogus results. Most people probably can't compare the results from multiple DNA services. They go with one source and they do so with full confidence.

What is not known is whether or not it's an uncommon occurrence at 23andme or something that's prevalent to some degree possibly due to inadequate supervision or other reasons. There's been enough issues at labs, especially forensic labs in some states, to exercise caution when something like this pops up. All it takes is one careless technician and supervisor to create problems.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Heritagefarm said:


> Granted. How does she know she does NOT have African ancestry? I'm honestly just curious. Of course if it's personal medical info I understand.


I didn't take your questions as anything other than curiosity. The issue if anything is my explanation.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Darren said:


> The daughter only had her mitochondrial DNA tested which is transmitted from the mother. Given that the daughter's son's and brother's mitochondrial DNA are the same as the daughter's mother's, as it should be, it makes it impossible that the daughter can have a different result.
> 
> The only difference is that the daughter used 23andme. Since the result is incorrect, something happened at 23andme that resulted in the bogus result for the daughter. The mother had her own lab with her medical practice and worked in other labs as a PhD pathologist. Although she didn't do DNA tests, she's very familiar with correct lab practices. She's concerned about the implications of her daughter's bogus results. Most people probably can't compare the results from multiple DNA services. They go with one source and they do so with full confidence.
> 
> What is not known is whether or not it's an uncommon occurrence at 23andme or something that's prevalent to some degree possibly due to inadequate supervision or other reasons. There's been enough issues at labs, especially forensic labs in some states, to exercise caution when something like this pops up. All it takes is one careless technician and supervisor to create problems.


Indeed. A lot of people probably make life decisions based on their results. They WERE trying to offer medical advice based on people's genomes, but I don't think they're doing anything beyond suggestions at the moment. I wonder what would happen if they sent in her DNA again. Waste of money, perhaps?


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

The daughter is not open to having her DNA being retested. As for medical there was an article someplace where a team of scientists did sequence an individual's genome at their request and afterwards discussed the medical implications. None of the scientists would look at their own that way because they preferred not to know.

The obvious danger is when the data is combined with everything else known about an individual. The person could then be subject to discrimination for various reasons. That's one of the reasons, I'll never use a discount card at a grocery store. What you buy can provide insight into your health and your biome that takes actuarial science to another level to your detriment.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Darren said:


> The daughter is not open to having her DNA being retested. As for medical there was an article someplace where a team of scientists did sequence an individual's genome at their request and afterwards discussed the medical implications. None of the scientists would look at their own that way because they preferred not to know.
> 
> The obvious danger is when the data is combined with everything else known about an individual. The person could then be subject to discrimination for various reasons. That's one of the reasons, I'll never use a discount card at a grocery store. What you buy can provide insight into your health and your biome that takes actuarial science to another level to your detriment.


I absolutely don't see it that way. I look to the future and I see a time where medications, prescriptions, and treatments are hand-tailored to each persons genome. Currently doctors are unable to take into account all the numerous variables. This medication works on this person; not this one. This treatment cures this person; kills this person. Obviously doctors already know this, but being able to customize every little bit will become extremely helpful.

I don't see why this would result in discrimination.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

As long as you have a profit motive involved, a company will seek to maximize it. Custom medical treatment is here to some extent. Whether a person gets that treatment in the future or restricted in other areas such as employment remain to be seen.

Target hired a mathematician who was able to determine when women were pregnant even when they were unaware of the pregnancy. To maximize their profit by encouraging the women to become loyal Target customers, the women received discount coupons for baby related products. The data that the mathematician used had nothing to do with the purchase of baby products.

Marketing is insidious. Part of the function of marketing analysis is to determine whether you are a preferred customer or one to be avoided or discouraged surreptitiously. That can be either active or passive screening.

I have no doubt that customer service personal already have your data and possibly your rating as a customer. That means potentially a customer may hear a different script and have different options another may not. Even the telephone decision tree may be different.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Heritagefarm said:


> I absolutely don't see it that way. I look to the future and I see a time where medications, prescriptions, and treatments are *hand-tailored to each persons genome*. Currently doctors are unable to take into account all the numerous variables. This medication works on this person; not this one. This treatment cures this person; kills this person. Obviously doctors already know this, but being able to customize every little bit will become extremely helpful.
> 
> I don't see why this would result in discrimination.


The biome is probably as important and possibly more important since the number of bacteria in your body exceeds the number of your cells. Add in fungi and viruses and each of us is a constellation of organisms that is not fully understood as far as importance and interactions. Some of the medical implications are known (fecal transplants as an example) while much remains unknown.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

My understanding that MTDNA results are from the females in the line...the mother and the mother's mother, the father's mother and HER mother. Am I wrong?

Mon


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

It's strictly matrilineal. No males are involved.


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## hoddedloki (Nov 14, 2014)

On the cost front, 23 and me is not sequencing your full genome. Just looking for small markers that can be used for identification. Much like forensic DNA testing doesn't do a full sequence.

As for the FDA business, THE FDA complained that telling people that specific genetic markers were associated with specific disease risks (as published in peer-reviewed journals) was not allowed because the FDA had not authorized it beforehand. This despite the fact that the information was already proven in the research world, but has not had an expensive individual FDA review process for each marker, paid for by the company.

Loki


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Darren said:


> The biome is probably as important and possibly more important since the number of bacteria in your body exceeds the number of your cells. Add in fungi and viruses and each of us is a constellation of organisms that is not fully understood as far as importance and interactions. Some of the medical implications are known (fecal transplants as an example) while much remains unknown.


I feel hopeful that finding genetic markers in relation to specific diseases and complication will help in the long and short run. Sometimes this information will be wrong, as it is an infant technology. We also still don't know what every gene does, at least not fully. But entuanlly we will be able to sequence a persons Dna and identify treatment based on their exact needs, something that can't be done simply by asking family history or asking questions. But I see absolutely no reason to think this will result in discrimination. I've never even heard that before. I
Genetic into will eventually fall into patient-Doctor confidentiality. 



hoddedloki said:


> On the cost front, 23 and me is not sequencing your full genome. Just looking for small markers that can be used for identification. Much like forensic DNA testing doesn't do a full sequence.
> 
> As for the FDA business, THE FDA complained that telling people that specific genetic markers were associated with specific disease risks (as published in peer-reviewed journals) was not allowed because the FDA had not authorized it beforehand. This despite the fact that the information was already proven in the research world, but has not had an expensive individual FDA review process for each marker, paid for by the company.
> 
> Loki


Ah, yes. That makes sense, because I read somewhere else a full sequence was $1000. 
The FDA does not actually care about helping people.


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## hoddedloki (Nov 14, 2014)

What finally convinced me that the FDA really doesn't care about helping people is the Drug approval process. There is a 17 month wait time until the FDA can get to your application, but for a mere 2.1 million consideration fee, you can move to the head of the line! But hey, putting the government in charge of medicine is a great idea...

Loki


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