# Mosin Nagant



## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Bought two of them here in Ohio. Giving one to a veteran who attends my church and lives up the hill.

I was shooting them today, I like it.

Anyone have one?

I think I am going to put a new synthetic stock on it and a scope.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I'm contemplating getting a CCR FFL, so I can pick up some, without having to go through a dealer.

Having a couple of extra dependable rifles around is always a good idea...


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

I've had one, and loved it. They are dead on accurate, have amazing range and can drop anything that walks. With a small amount of work, they can be sporterized and make excellent hunting rifles. 

My favorite though is an Argentine Mauzer, rechambered for .308 I cut down the stock, had the bolt forged to allow a scope, and drilled and tapped for the scope mount. It is now my absolute favorite hunting rifle. Don't be so quick to ditch the wood stock. If it isn't cracked, some of the woodgrain is beautiful after you refinish it.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

deaconjim said:


> I've had one, and loved it. They are dead on accurate, have amazing range and can drop anything that walks. With a small amount of work, they can be sporterized and make excellent hunting rifles.
> 
> My favorite though is an Argentine Mauzer, rechambered for .308 I cut down the stock, had the bolt forged to allow a scope, and drilled and tapped for the scope mount. It is now my absolute favorite hunting rifle. Don't be so quick to ditch the wood stock. If it isn't cracked, some of the woodgrain is beautiful after you refinish it.


Honestly, the wood stock makes it a bit unbalanced.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

seedspreader said:


> Honestly, the wood stock makes it a bit unbalanced.


Yes, but it works in my case because I'm a little unbalanced as well. 

Seriously, the stock can be cut down and some of the extra metal removed to make it a very nice rifle. For the best shooters, the sythetic stock might be better, but the average shooter wouldn't gain much from it. One thing I learned while I was in the business, most guns are accurate than the shooter (especially in my case).


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

I found a nice combination kit on Amazon that has the Monte Carlo stock, a muzzle brake, the scope mount and a scope for 127.00 bucks, free shipping.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

That is my big game hunting gun, a Mosin Nagant M-44. I used to have an M-91/30 but sold it when I needed to pay some bills. Unless they have been shot out I found the Mosin Nagant to be a fairly accurate gun. They are heavy and the M-91/30 is sorta a pain to tramp around in the woods with. I like my M-44 carbine, it is shorter and easier to go through brush with. Ammo can be a little tough to find at times (in my area) but when I do find it the stuff is usually 3/4 to half what a 30-0-06 runs (for FMJ). The surplus military ammo seems to be the cheapest out of any gun I know of. I have over 2000 rounds (I think, lost track a while ago). It used to be I could get 300 rounds for 50 bucks but now I think it is closer to 70-80 bucks. The Sportsman Guide usually has the best deals on surplus ammo for them.

For the price (under 90 bucks at the local Farm and Barn) I don't think you can beat 'em and I love the look of all that wood


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

Seedspreader - did you get the M-44 (carbine) or the longer version? I almost picked one up that had been sporterized at a show last year - probably should have.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

I bought two of the M91/30's which is why I think the new stock will be beneficial. I am a big guy and it gets tiresome holding all that wood/barrel at the end of the gun and shooting accurately. 

Tim, Fur, Feather and Fin in Ashland, Ohio has them for 89.00 bucks pretty regularly. I think I may buy a couple more in the next year.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

I have a Mosin Nagant m44, I like it


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Good shooters,I have 2-the stock design is really bad for accuracy...I bought a scope mount that replaces rear sight...don't want to cut/tap bolt-seen toomany abortions on that.Easy to reload,can use .308 bullets,if you don't have .311.


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hi Guys,
The Mosin Nagant has a long and colorful History one caveat I would point out is that the sight is set up in Stadia an outdated russian(as In Czarist) standard that is roughly a pace!
Also some will not shoot the lighter bullets loaded for more modern weapons in the soviet armory.
I've had several, I've kept one on the older octagon shaped receiver rifles. Removing a lot of the metal and wood on the front end, shoot even shortening the barrel (the barrel is really long on the rifle, so chopping it back to 22 or 24 inches would make them much quicker. For bigger people adding to the but-stock lenght can really add to the shot ability of these old military rifles.
Big 5 sporting goods out here just sold them for $89. on black Friday.
Remember most 7.62 X54R is corrosive so good cleaning with an appropriate cleaner is required if all else fails hot soapy water will do it.
Cheers,
Dutch


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

zant said:


> Good shooters,I have 2-the stock design is really bad for accuracy...I bought a scope mount that replaces rear sight...don't want to cut/tap bolt-seen toomany abortions on that.Easy to reload,can use .308 bullets,if you don't have .311.


Tell me more about them using .308's... I've not heard or read that.

I've read about some being (crudely and poorly) modified to .308 and it basically ruining their accuracy... but not about the other.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

texican said:


> I'm contemplating getting a CCR FFL, so I can pick up some, without having to go through a dealer.
> 
> Having a couple of extra dependable rifles around is always a good idea...


i was talking with the father of one of my cub scouts he has a CCR FFL said , it is less hassel to just go to the dealer transfer the gun smith in the next town over does them for 20 dollars 

even though the CCR was only 35 , he siad just having it sent to martins is so much easier for him , he goes over and picks it up, and it keeps our local gun smith in buissiness.


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

Seedspreader - thanks for the info. on Fin, Feather, and Fur. I have seen them at the gun show in Medina for around the same price and ammo seem quite reasonable.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

nothing against the nargant but buy the time you buy one for around 150 ad the bent bolt handle another 50 then get drilled and tapped and another 45 you might as well get a new stevens in 30-06 for 300 or find a used rifle 
and get a much lighter rifle with an easy to operate safty that will be easier to carry and the stevens comes with a synethetic stock - so there is another 75 dollar savings.

i helped a freind find a deer gun a few years back the stevens for 299 at the time was about the best deal going a 3-9 scope and he was hunting sure it holds 4 rounds not 5 or 7 whatever the nargant holds but loads from the top same as a nargant 

ammo is easy to find, 
i found buds guns online is selling them 309 delivered so all you pay is 309 + your local transfer dealers price , stevens is owned by savage so you are getting a savage rifle but with limited options


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Originally Posted by zant
> Good shooters,I have 2-the stock design is really bad for accuracy...I bought a scope mount that replaces rear sight...don't want to cut/tap bolt-seen toomany abortions on that.Easy to reload,can use .308 bullets,if you don't have .311.
> 
> *Tell me more about them using .308's... I've not heard or read that.*I've read about some being (crudely and poorly) modified to .308 and it basically ruining their accuracy... but not about the other.


He's referring to RELOADING with .308 diameter projectiles instead of .311
NOT rechambering to the 308 cartridge


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## Michael Kawalek (Jun 21, 2007)

I have to agree with Jim. I'm also a bigger fan of Mausers than I am the Russian guns. I bought two Swedish Mausers for 80$ each, back when they were almost giving them away.

Jim is very correct about the wood. Here's a pic of my two Swedes. Before I refinished the stock on the lower one, it looked like a fence post. Underneigth all the crud was beautiful walnut. Once I shorten the barrel to 24" and trimmed the stock too, the rifle is beautifully balanced and a joy to shoot.









Texican, the funny thing is now I have my C&R license, but the prices have jumped three fold since they were on sale. It was cheaper buying them at the gunshop back when, then today when I don't need a background check. I still remember the day I bought a Turkish Mauser, a German Mauser, and a MAS 36 all for 150$ in one day. Just payed for one background check too! Oh well.


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## WildernesFamily (Mar 11, 2006)

DH and I both have an M44. Beautiful guns, nice to shoot.


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

I've had a couple. Solid, accurate, and reliable, but I didn't really like either. Handles like a log, and the safety mechanisms on mine both sucked in terms of actuating them. The trigger action was beyond horrible on both of mine, but some may be better. 
With heavy hunting loads, the steel buttplate acts as a torture device after just a few rounds.

Of all the mauser knock-offs I've fired, the Nagant is my least favorite. The Swede mausers were teriffic, I've used some nice Czeck Mausers, and even run into more than a few Enfield and Arisaka rifles I really liked.

That said, the 7.62x54R is just as "tried and true" as it gets. If I ain't mistaken, it's been in military service longer than any other Chambering that's still in use.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

We have 3 M44's at the house and our friends have them also.. bought them a few years ago when they were cheap.. The most expensive one was $80.. 

They are a fun rifle.. We think of the M44's as a carbine the size of a 30-30 with the power of a 30-06.. On 2 of them we added LED optical sites with a good result, but th erecoil does tend to knock the battery loose.. I also just picked up 2 pistol scopes so we will try them and see how they work.. You need the long eye-relief for these carbines.. This way you don't have to change the bolt handle..

Now if ammo would become available, I would be happier...


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

swamp man said:


> I've had a couple. Solid, accurate, and reliable, but I didn't really like either. Handles like a log, and the safety mechanisms on mine both sucked in terms of actuating them. The trigger action was beyond horrible on both of mine, but some may be better.
> With heavy hunting loads, the steel buttplate acts as a torture device after just a few rounds.
> 
> Of all the mauser knock-offs I've fired, the Nagant is my least favorite. The Swede mausers were teriffic, I've used some nice Czeck Mausers, and even run into more than a few Enfield and Arisaka rifles I really liked.
> ...


The swedish mauser is a good rifle. I bought mine some 20 years ago and it stills works like a charm.. The only problem is when you have to find the 6.5x55 ammo, it will set you back over $20 a box.. I have found that a company called Prvi Partisan (sp) does make them and they fire nicely with the cost only being around $11. But you do need to make sure you clean it after you are done shooting.. Yes I do reload, but tend to stock pile the reloads till I need them..


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

seedspreader said:


> Tell me more about them using .308's... I've not heard or read that.
> 
> I've read about some being (crudely and poorly) modified to .308 and it basically ruining their accuracy... but not about the other.


Sorry,should have specified-reloading with.308 bullets...I have a ton of 124gr SP that are .311 and they shoot fine.I've pulled chicom ammo and used good powder and 180gr .308 and they shot good,not real accurate past 200yds but OK.....If you pull and reload steel case-LUBE them good.


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

i bought several of these, cut them down a bit and put them into synth stocks, added forward mounted scopes at 1.5x and 2x and sold them (mountain guns)... M-44 with custom paint


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

We have one too, a 91/59, the cut down 91/30
Made at the Izhevsk factory in 1944
Gave $113 for it about a year ago
NIce shooter, big boomer, love it.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

I keep a 6.5 Swede carbine in dead stock configuration. It is great for rainy or snowy days where a scope can be bothersome. I don't worry about the battle sights getting knocked out of line. 

An M44 or an Enfield would work as well.


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

both without a scope, and am able to get an Enfield too but I guess I will just stock to one gun. Those legacy bolts, in great calibers, with the Fantastic SIX.FIVE X 55 Swede leading the parade, do a lot more of the job than they actually cost. Mosi, Swede, Enfield or most Mausers, do the number. Great pieces all of them. They are about as rugged as they get, nuf said.



Ed Norman said:


> I keep a 6.5 Swede carbine in dead stock configuration. It is great for rainy or snowy days where a scope can be bothersome. I don't worry about the battle sights getting knocked out of line.
> 
> An M44 or an Enfield would work as well.


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## Texas_Plainsman (Aug 26, 2007)

Have you slugged your barrel to see what size it actually is? I'm thinking about starting to make my own bullets for mine.



zant said:


> Sorry,should have specified-reloading with.308 bullets...I have a ton of 124gr SP that are .311 and they shoot fine.I've pulled chicom ammo and used good powder and 180gr .308 and they shot good,not real accurate past 200yds but OK.....If you pull and reload steel case-LUBE them good.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I LOVE the Mauser. I've never had a gun as much fun to shoot as that one, nor have I had one as forgiving. The only thing I have a problem with is the 8mm is a pain-in-the-butt round to purchase.

I have a rare Nagant pistol that I carry (yes, I know, illegally). It's a nice piece, lightweight and accurate and the .32 S&W round it fires isn't hard to find in stores. It's not a target-shooting gun and reloading is a pain, but it holds enough rounds to get me out of trouble, I reckon. I got it for $150 and I favor it over any of my 9mm automatics. Partly also because it's so cheap and if it gets stolen or confiscated by police then I'm not out too sizable of an investment. 










I would like to add that whether you prefer the Nagant or Mauser rifle, the British Enfield, or the American Garand, it is _very important_ for as many of us as possible to own rifles that were specifically designed to _kill soldiers_. It is a very important check against government tyranny. It has been said that if every Jew in 1938 Germany owned a Mauser rifle and had the will to use it then Hitler would have been nothing more than a minor footnote in German history.


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## Texas_Plainsman (Aug 26, 2007)

I too have a Nagant revolver that I love. I think I'm attached to it since it has a western look and feel to it. I reload 32-20 brass for it using a Lee Nagant die set. It is cheap to shoot.




Ernie said:


> I LOVE the Mauser. I've never had a gun as much fun to shoot as that one, nor have I had one as forgiving. The only thing I have a problem with is the 8mm is a pain-in-the-butt round to purchase.
> 
> I have a rare Nagant pistol that I carry (yes, I know, illegally). It's a nice piece, lightweight and accurate and the .32 S&W round it fires isn't hard to find in stores. It's not a target-shooting gun and reloading is a pain, but it holds enough rounds to get me out of trouble, I reckon. I got it for $150 and I favor it over any of my 9mm automatics. Partly also because it's so cheap and if it gets stolen or confiscated by police then I'm not out too sizable of an investment.
> 
> ...


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Ammo was the deciding factor for me. 

I have ZERO use for a gun that is considered "the better gun in my(whoever's) opinion" that I can't afford to shoot. ZERO.

It's why I have an SKS, and it's why I now have a Mosin-Nagant. I want lots of ammo that's cheap to sling and does the job I want it to.

As far as the "caustic powder" that is used, it was actually someone on here who gave me the best/easiest way of dealing with it. 

Shoot some WD-40 down the barrel after a day at the range if you don't have time for a full cleaning. Works wonders.

For around 200 bucks I'll have a sportsterized Mosin with a synthetic stock and a scope. I'll let you know how I do at the range when I get her all assembled. It probably won't be until after the holidays.


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## WildernesFamily (Mar 11, 2006)

Ernie said:


>


Nice gun Ernie! I have one of those too, DH bought it for me as an anniversary gift 

He got it at JG Sales for $79.95, they still have them for that price. Mine appeared to have never even fired a round when I got it.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

seedspreader said:


> Ammo was the deciding factor for me.
> 
> I have ZERO use for a gun that is considered "the better gun in my(whoever's) opinion" that I can't afford to shoot. ZERO.
> 
> ...


Love the SKSs
We've got a few of them, but this one is my favorite


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

God bless you all. It does my heart good to see so many of you well-armed. That's a light and inspiration for the future.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Nice looking rifle there CH. I take it that you refinished that one?


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Ernie said:


> I LOVE the Mauser. I've never had a gun as much fun to shoot as that one, nor have I had one as forgiving. The only thing I have a problem with is the 8mm is a pain-in-the-butt round to purchase.
> 
> I have a rare Nagant pistol that I carry (yes, I know, illegally). It's a nice piece, lightweight and accurate and the .32 S&W round it fires isn't hard to find in stores. It's not a target-shooting gun and reloading is a pain, but it holds enough rounds to get me out of trouble, I reckon. I got it for $150 and I favor it over any of my 9mm automatics. Partly also because it's so cheap and if it gets stolen or confiscated by police then I'm not out too sizable of an investment.
> 
> ...


Ok, so now I am looking at these... (this is like going to the bar for an AA meeting.) but this will fire the 32 SW ammo? Or did you have to buy the 32 cylinder for it? How does it hit at 60 feet?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

It fires the .32 SW ammo just fine, but it won't release the shell casings. My understanding is that it isn't designed to release ANY shell casings. It comes with a little prod to eject them from the other side after you fire them. Kind of weird and I'd hate to have to do that while taking fire.

It also hits like crap at 60'. It's probably the most inaccurate pistol I own. However I don't carry it for the purpose of being in a shoot-out at 60'. I carry it for the next son of a gun who tries to pull me out of my truck. It'll work fine for that.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

seedspreader said:


> Nice looking rifle there CH. I take it that you refinished that one?


The SKS I picked up at a gun show just like you see it there. It's a Chinese, all numbers match, nice, nice shooter.
The Mosin was smothered in cosmo, I didn't refinish it, but it took a lot of cleaniing.


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## Texas_Plainsman (Aug 26, 2007)

The 32-20 brass cases work real well. I use 3.3 grains of Trail Boss. I'm getting about a 2 inch spread at 15 yards but I'm still working on it. I want to add another grain or two of powder and work on my front sight to bring it in at 25 yards. I started at 3.0 grains and went in 3 grain increments up to 4.2 grains. 3.3 Grains was the most accurate load. 

J&G has these for $79 but their bores are dark (not necessarily bad). I orderd mine from SOG for the same price but I paid an extra $5 for a hand select. It is brand new. The bore is mirror bright and the teak checkered handles looked like they were cut yesterday. Mine was made in 1945.




Ernie said:


> It fires the .32 SW ammo just fine, but it won't release the shell casings. My understanding is that it isn't designed to release ANY shell casings. It comes with a little prod to eject them from the other side after you fire them. Kind of weird and I'd hate to have to do that while taking fire.
> 
> It also hits like crap at 60'. It's probably the most inaccurate pistol I own. However I don't carry it for the purpose of being in a shoot-out at 60'. I carry it for the next son of a gun who tries to pull me out of my truck. It'll work fine for that.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Just above the handgrip will be an armory stamp. Mine came out of a Czech armory in 1943. That was one of the things that intrigued me a lot. Where has this pistol been before it found its way under the seat in my truck? Who carried it? How did it get into the United States?


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

How about any of the US Enfield rifles - anybody out there how one of them? Supposed to be about the finest bolt gun ever made in this country (out of the historical pieces anyway). 

While I don't have one, based on a fair bit of reading I don't think you can go wrong with a Nagant. Regarding the SKS's - that's a highlyl under-rated rifle. If you take a good look at the receiver, it's really nice - it would be quite expensive to replicate that nowadays since it's milled and not cheap stamped metal. 

The prices on all most of the pieces in this discussion are slowly rising, but even at today's prices all are BARGAINS and I'd encourage everybody on this board to stock up with multiples in any platform. If you have sons, buy for them now as there's a good chance they will not be able to buy for themselves later.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

I have never been a fan of foreign-made arms...not that I think you can't get a good deal on some quality pieces...but they are just not my cup of tea. My entire collection of military arms are USGI (with the exception of my M1A, which is identical to the USGI M-14 just doesn't have the select-fire option)

At any rate, if you are into Mosins, Mausers, AKs and other foreign arms and surplus ammo, my suggestion is to give J&G Sales website a look see. Lots of foreign guns and foreign surplus ammo at decent prices. I've bought quite a few rounds of foreign-made 7.62x51 NATO from this supplier. I highly recommend this company.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

timfromohio said:


> How about any of the US Enfield rifles - anybody out there how one of them? Supposed to be about the finest bolt gun ever made in this country (out of the historical pieces anyway)....


Yep, I have a M1917 Enfield (Eddystone). It's a little hard to get use to the british style bolt which cocks the firing pin on the forward push of the bolt, but other than that it is a fine shooter.

My US Enfield is the second rifle from the left in the photo below:


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

Seedspreader - how do the ballistics of the 7.62x54 compare to a standard .308 (7.62x51)? I'm assuming pretty similar, right? I was pricing out ammo at www.ammoman.com and it's less than half the cost for 7.62x54 - wow, that's comparing the surplus 7.62x54 against cheapo .308. 

Also, for those of you that have shot the standard versions vs. the M44 (carbines) is there a really big difference in kick and muzzle flash?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Cabin Fever said:


> Yep, I have a M1917 Enfield (Eddystone). It's a little hard to get use to the british style bolt which cocks the firing pin on the forward push of the bolt, but other than that it is a fine shooter.
> 
> My US Enfield is the second rifle from the left in the photo below:


Nice line up CF :goodjob:


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

timfromohio said:


> Seedspreader - how do the ballistics of the 7.62x54 compare to a standard .308 (7.62x51)? I'm assuming pretty similar, right? I was pricing out ammo at www.ammoman.com and it's less than half the cost for 7.62x54 - wow, that's comparing the surplus 7.62x54 against cheapo .308.
> 
> Also, for those of you that have shot the standard versions vs. the M44 (carbines) is there a really big difference in kick and muzzle flash?


The kick is a little heavier on the M44 carbine and you get more muzzle flash.
This is due to the lighter gun and shorter barrel..


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

I too got caught up in the "solid, cheap, and cheap ammo" Nagants.
( It's y'all's fault, talking about them for a while now).

I found a couple at good prices a year or so ago, M38, M44, yeah and even a 1895M, 7 shooter.
The one to look for is the M39 (action rebuilt by Sako)

Yes, I also shoot the s&w .32 longs in the 1895m, but have found several boxes of new or new manufacture ammo. They seem to unload better, the .32's the brass does expand.
All are fun to shoot, with good accuracy, (at least mopp).

I was also trying to find a .311 dia bullet for reloading, but most reloading books do figure their loads based on the .308 size, in different grains. Guess they figure a little small is better than a little too big?

Anyway, you really can't use the surplus brass for reloading because of the primer used, and regular brass is a little harder(more expensive) to find. So I just got a Lee Loader for mine.
Cheap ammo is still cheap enough that you can get a sore shoulder cheap.

I wouldn't spend the time nor money tring to make them into a "my favorite hunting rifle", just a "bic" rifle that didn't cost much.

As was brought up, the safety sucks, the triggers are harsh, the whole rifle looks like it was chopped out of a block of iron with an ax, then shaped with a hammer.

Still fun to shoot though, later in the afternoon, the M38 and M44 does throw a fire ball......, lots of noise, smoke....what's not to love!


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

Seedspreader (and anybody else out there that knows) - couple of Mosin questions:

1 - round vs. hex receiver? Advantages/Disadvantages?

2 - which variant? Tula, Ishezsk, standard Russian?

Classic arms has a dumpload of them pretty cheap. They seem to have a good reputation and I'm considering either picking up a couple from them or from the show in Medina this weekend. 

http://www.classicarms.us/firearms.htm


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## Jubilee (Mar 12, 2009)

My dh has bought 7 of them already since they're cheap enough at Gander Mountain. He sold a few to our sons. He thinks he might be able to sell a few if TSHTF - to reasonable people of course.

My son said you can get a synthetic stock & scope base through "Cheaper Than Dirt" 
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ Otherwise, they're harder to find for that kind of gun. There's one kind that's just the base and another kind that has a new bolt handle.

How much did you get yours for? We found they cost $99 last year and now they're $130 and possibly more.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Another good place is www.milsurpstuff.com


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

Cabin Fever,,,Looks like the line up of a service rifle shooter....very nice. did they all come with the stock shown or did you switch out stocks?


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

ace admirer said:


> Cabin Fever,,,Looks like the line up of a service rifle shooter....very nice. did they all come with the stock shown or did you switch out stocks?



All original walnut stocks and metal condition (unless the armory did some re-parkerizing). The gem of my collection is the 100% correct Rock-ola M1 carbine.


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

timfromohio said:


> Seedspreader (and anybody else out there that knows) - couple of Mosin questions:
> 
> 1 - round vs. hex receiver? Advantages/Disadvantages?
> 
> ...


Tim,

As far as shooting ability is concerned, there is not much difference in the variants. The variants come into play for those who are collecting them and are looking for the rarer variants for their collections. The hex receiver was manufactured up to 1935, after that the round receiver was made. Tulas are rarer than Ishys, both are Russian arsenals.

The real prizes out there are the sniper rifles and the Finns. An original sniper rifle (there are fakes out there) were running in the $800+ range about 6 years ago. The Finns (Finland was once part of Russia prior to 1918) were made from old Czarist receivers and rebarrelled by Sako, Tikka and Valmet. They are considered more accurate than the Russian rifles. Of course they are rarer than the Russian counterparts.

Hope that helps.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

It might be of intrest t some, that there were some Magants made here in the U.S.
Remington, New England Westinghouse, being a couple.
Good sight on history:
http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/arsenalmarks.htm


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

diamondtim - thanks for the explanation. I had read that the rifles with hex receivers were of better quality, as they were manufactured before the war - during the war things were rushed, fit and finish were not as good. Any truth to that? 

hunter63 - thanks for the link - will help me figure out what I have if I wind up getting one!


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

One of mine is a Westinghouse-wallhanger-needs barrel due to not cleaning after shooting corrosive ammo(bought for $5 at yard sale.Just got in a scout scope mount that takes place of rear sight(milsurp.com).I have a 1938 Sako that I cut barrel down to 20" and recrowned-swings nice.


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

timfromohio said:


> diamondtim - thanks for the explanation. I had read that the rifles with hex receivers were of better quality, as they were manufactured before the war - during the war things were rushed, fit and finish were not as good. Any truth to that?
> 
> hunter63 - thanks for the link - will help me figure out what I have if I wind up getting one!


Tim,

You can tell the difference between pre-war and wartime production. Wartime rifles were missing metal inserts in the sling holes and the exterior of the barrels were crudely finished, etc.

You will also find a lot of serial numbers for parts are mix-matched. One theory has it that gun cleaning was done "collectively", and the bolt you received was the bolt you got:shrug:. This could have also been done at the armorer-level, he/she was just trying to get guns together and to the soldiers quickly.

There are a lot of good sites to give you the history and information regarding these interesting guns. Hunter63 gave you one, another is
http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yuku.com/bparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums

Good Luck in learning more.:rock:


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## hillbillly (Jun 28, 2009)

just got a sporterized M44 - sweet rifle!


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## wicker762 (Dec 2, 2009)

I have a M38, M44, and 91/30 and I love them all! Despite the clumsy safety and a few other out of date features these are really great rifles. I know some folks have had trouble getting a shooter but I inspect all my rifles closely before buying and have three good bores/crowns. The 91/30 is easily the best of the three though.

On the .308 bullet. It's shouldn't be unsafe to use and I've read of many who do use it though it will be inaccurate as it does not mate correctly with your groves and lands. The correct bullet to load is the .311 intended for the .303 British (which is a .311 load). If you are casting your own I highly recomend slugging your bore as these old gals can go from .311 up to .313 or .314. This way you can cast bullets that will give you the most accuracy. If I remeber Lee offers molds for the 7.62x54R.

I'll probably purchase more of these gems while they are still on the market.

I do some machining and have been thinking of accurizing a 91/30. I'd like to remove the barrel to behind the front sight, recrown, and add a scope mount (which I've allready designed). I'd have done it by now but the thought of buying the tooling for an $75.00 rifle keeps me back. Well that and the dissaproving looks my Wife gives me when I speak of it. Though I cannot remember the company off the top of my head there is one here in Iowa that makes a much better trigger for these old gals and several others in the Brownell's catalog. I think just adding one of these in place of that lunker of a trigger would greatly improve this excellent rifle.

I think the Mosin has grow to such popluarity becuse despite it's price it's a tough working rifle, worth far more than the asking price. Now if I could only buy a tin of ammo for 40 bones again, like just a few years ago.

I have "better", more expensive rifles but when I go to the range there are 3 that allways make the trip with me, my 91/30, my fav AK, and my 1911. They are all fun to shoot and an exercise in oldtime simplicity that is hard to beat.

Cabin Fever, you have a nice collection my friend.


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

Gee ernie, that 8 X 57 was about the easiest to handload out there. DO NOT TRUST MY MEMORY ON THIS OR ANY OTHER LOAD, do your own research, but an 86% density load in a 8 X 57 case with IMR 3031 or better yet IMR 4320, will give you a whitetail load no whitetail can walk away from. Kinda gives them the "electric shock" phenom when you hit 'em right !
Given a harder, deeper pentrating bullet or more ballistic bullet, I never thought I needed anything bigger in mainland Alaska, specificaly the Interior.

Even basic reloading with a LEE kit will do the 8 X 57 really great. Good luck.



Ernie said:


> I LOVE the Mauser. I've never had a gun as much fun to shoot as that one, nor have I had one as forgiving. The only thing I have a problem with is the 8mm is a pain-in-the-butt round to purchase.
> 
> I have a rare Nagant pistol that I carry (yes, I know, illegally). It's a nice piece, lightweight and accurate and the .32 S&W round it fires isn't hard to find in stores. It's not a target-shooting gun and reloading is a pain, but it holds enough rounds to get me out of trouble, I reckon. I got it for $150 and I favor it over any of my 9mm automatics. Partly also because it's so cheap and if it gets stolen or confiscated by police then I'm not out too sizable of an investment.
> 
> ...


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## klickitat (Dec 26, 2008)

I have a .308 but am considering getting rid of it. ..........

I have a beauty of an FN FAL. I love the gun and cartridge, but ammo is getting very expensive and a while back I picked up a PSL for fun. Well the PSL is every bit as accurate and the ammo is only 20% the cost 7.62x54R vrs. .308

I pretty much fell in love with My PSL and becasue I could buy surplus ammo for $100 per 440 rnds in a sealed spam can, I decided to pick up a couple M44's for the boys to shoot and to have a couple extra rifles for what ever or to stash with 200 rnds. each. 

So now I have to sort of make a decision; which caliber do I stay with? Do I stay with my .30-06 (hunting rifles) and the .308 or do I just switch everything over to the 7.62x54R and just buy 4 or 5 thousand rnds and call it good.

The 7.62x54R can replace the .30-06 and definitely the .308. If I consolidate, I can cut down on the ammo I have to keep on hand. I am leaning towards the rimmed cartridge, but boy is it hard to give up my other guns.


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## klickitat (Dec 26, 2008)

BTW: the primer mixture in the surplus ammo is what is corrosive. WD40 will cover the residue and help protect it in the short term. You should neutralize the corrosive residue though. Windex with ammonia will do it. After shooting surplus ammo I spray my guns down with Windex and then clean my rifle like any other. When done I oil it down and store it.


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## wicker762 (Dec 2, 2009)

klickitat said:


> BTW: the primer mixture in the surplus ammo is what is corrosive. WD40 will cover the residue and help protect it in the short term. You should neutralize the corrosive residue though. Windex with ammonia will do it. After shooting surplus ammo I spray my guns down with Windex and then clean my rifle like any other. When done I oil it down and store it.



Yep, oil or Windex work in my experience too. Mostly I just get right to cleaning, with Break Free CLP, as soon as I get home. A complete gun oil cleaning does the job too, just need to be a little anal with the mil surp ammo.

klickkitat, why not hold onto the .308 for diversity? If your a not a gun guy I get consolidation but if you enjoy shooting, why not keep it? I guess I'm a frim believer in never selling a fire arm unless one has a strong reason to do so. I understand that may not be the case with you and that the .308 would buy a great deal of ammo for the PSL. BTW, I've wanted one of those for some time. Then again, I want one (or two) of all of them.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

" I'm a frim believer in never selling a fire arm unless one has a strong reason to do so."

absultdamlutely....and you will probably be sorry if you do....how many times i've heard "i had one of those,,,,wished i'd had kept it...and wonder where the money went to from the sale"


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## klickitat (Dec 26, 2008)

.22, .22 mag, .223, 9x18, 9mm, .38 special, .357, 10mm, 30-30, 7.62x39, .308, 30-06, 7.62x54R, .410, 20g., 12g. Now I love my guns, but...........


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## wicker762 (Dec 2, 2009)

klickitat said:


> .22, .22 mag, .223, 9x18, 9mm, .38 special, .357, 10mm, 30-30, 7.62x39, .308, 30-06, 7.62x54R, .410, 20g., 12g. Now I love my guns, but...........



You see...........that's what I'm talking about. Where's the .45acp? Do you really have enough calibers? Are you really covered?

Just kidding. Ok, not really.


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## klickitat (Dec 26, 2008)

wicker762 said:


> You see...........that's what I'm talking about. Where's the .45acp? Do you really have enough calibers? Are you really covered?
> 
> Just kidding. Ok, not really.


and I thought I was sick.....:buds:


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

some would say,,,,well i would say,,,,there is no handgun like the 1911,,,yes,, who would be with out a 45acp? and a casting and reloading outfit to go along.....have to at todays ammo prices.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

ace admirer said:


> some would say,,,,well i would say,,,,there is no handgun like the 1911,,,yes,, who would be with out a 45acp? and a casting and reloading outfit to go along.....have to at todays ammo prices.


I always thought, that when you get a new caliber "asset", part of the package is the dies, and such to go with it.
This kinda breaks down when you start fooling with the 7.62X 54R and 7.62X 39 ammo.
They are still pretty cheap to shoot, but most of the "Brass" isn't re-loadable.

(Yeah, I know, there are some that really go to great lengths to make them re-loadable, reaming out prime holes, etc, but not really cost efficient)

As far as casting goes, the hardness of the lead, or alloy, kinda limits the loads in fast cartridges, and yes, you can get away with speed around 2000+fps with gas checks, paper patching, bullet hardening etc.
Casting work well with handgun loads/speeds etc, so molds are included in the "package" for them.

As far as the high powered loads 30-06, .270, 308, 300 win mag and so forth, I don't know about y'all, but spending a day at the range putting a couple of hundred round thru these, kinda beats ya up.
So, I don't spend a lot of time or money shooting them up "just because", and I just buy my bullets........when they are around.

I also agree, that you really need to explore the reasons to get rid of an "asset", I have bought, sold, traded a lot, and there is some regret to this day on some of them.

One reason for getting rid of one, to get another, was in the past, DW saying, "How many guns do you need", so that lead to a lot of trading early on......finances...... 
We are passed that, at least for the time being...I mean, how many "Crafts" does she "need".


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

I already have dies for the 7.62x54r But then I have dies for everything I own and then some..


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Just put scout mount on and it works great......If you only have steel cases for your Mosin and want good ammo-just pull bullet/powder-lube well-pour in good powder-seat sp bullet and you have great hunting ammo....I found a bunch of norma and lapua cases at a yard sale and have at least 5 reloads on them.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

not to divert,,,,but we shoot with fellows that cast for the swiss K31,,,under 2600 fps i think....and those cast bullets shoot GOOD.


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## wicker762 (Dec 2, 2009)

No matter the caliber, I'm a big fan of rolling my own. Hunter63 has a point about limits with lead and rifles. Getting too hot with lead loads just leads to a great deal of cleaning and some rifles/calibers do not respond well to slower moving loads. It's not really a problem (leading that is) if you keep your load down but that's not what everyone is looking for.

I load mostly for handgun becuse that's where I get into some serious volume. That volume has paid off though. Dad and I both make regular silhouette head shots at 100 yards with quality autos like my Kimmy or his .40 Beretta. That's not bragging mind you, I think most folks with a good eye can do the same, so long as they have quality practice and lots of lead to sling. Hence the importance of reloading or making bargain purchases. Heck, revolver silhouette shooters hit targets at much longer ranges.

The trick is being able to send lots of bullets down range and learning as you go. This is where the Mosin is such a blessing! Most of the ammo I shoot is mil surp but I do buy some brass loads and save every empty case. BTW, the Wolf Gold 54R load is a pretty good shooter. It brings the rifle much closer to it's true ability and can be had for 12-15 bucks a box if you do some looking.

As with most of you who roll your own, when it comes to metric rifles I tend bo buy more than I roll as it is so cheap allready. Even todays higher priced mi surp 8mm rounds are cheap enough I have not began my one loading. Then again, I only have one Mauser.

On the scout scope. I'm a huge Jeff Cooper fan and have long thought the M38 would make a great scout project.

FWIW, cheaper than dirt and several other outlets have stripper clips for the Mosin.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

zant said:


> Just put scout mount on and it works great......If you only have steel cases for your Mosin and want good ammo-just pull bullet/powder-lube well-pour in good powder-seat sp bullet and you have great hunting ammo....I found a bunch of norma and lapua cases at a yard sale and have at least 5 reloads on them.


I'm not sure what you have to lube? You aren't resizing, are you?

And if you use a hunting bullet the same weight as the surplus bullet, you can keep the original powder charge and see if it shoots good enough. Then it is a simple pull - seat operation. I used to do that with the early SKS ammo.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

FYI, most of my re-loading manuals list the .308 bullet as a basis for the velocities printed for each load. Of course the companies that printed the manuals would want to error on the safe side?

Dia is a little small .308 but I guess it beats trying to load with .311 (.303 British).
Haven't found many .310 bullets other than Norma's.

If I was to re-load the 7.62X 54R I would use the .308's and a factory crimp die.

As I have plenty of other hunting set ups, I kinda treat the Nagants as a fun rifle (and pistol), so haven't really got into the gyrations needed to re-load them.

I did pick up a "Lee Loader" for the 7.62X 54, just in case. (back pack re-loading)

Lots of other forums deal with guys that are really into Nagants, Mauser's, and other historic tools.
Caution, fooling with these can be an addiction................


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Ed Norman said:


> I'm not sure what you have to lube? You aren't resizing, are you?
> 
> And if you use a hunting bullet the same weight as the surplus bullet, you can keep the original powder charge and see if it shoots good enough. Then it is a simple pull - seat operation. I used to do that with the early SKS ammo.


...I get rid of the combloc powder and use 4895 or RL15,the difference in accuracy is well worth it.You're right about lubing but I always tell people that in case they try and decap-nothing slows you down more than a stuck case.I picked up a bunch of boxer brass and 125grSP for 7.62x39 and my Kalashnikov will shoot 1.5" off a rest at 100yds.I've found between the lousy powder and inconsistent bullets they use,accuracy suffers.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

zant said:


> ...I get rid of the combloc powder and use 4895 or RL15,the difference in accuracy is well worth it.You're right about lubing but I always tell people that in case they try and decap-nothing slows you down more than a stuck case.I picked up a bunch of boxer brass and 125grSP for 7.62x39 and my Kalashnikov will shoot 1.5" off a rest at 100yds.I've found between the lousy powder and inconsistent bullets they use,accuracy suffers.


Fair enough. ANd another thing that will slow you down even faster than a stuck die is a broke decap pin from a Berdan primer. 

I have good Norma brass for my 7.62X39 now, but back in the early 80s, I was stuck with the milsurp stuff. 

hunter63 "FYI, most of my re-loading manuals list the .308 bullet as a basis for the velocities printed for each load. Of course the companies that printed the manuals would want to error on the safe side?"

If you want to get technical, as long as the neck area of the chamber has enough room to release the bullet, you can fire most any caliber down the barrel without problems. PO Ackley tried firing 8mm bullets in a 30-06, with the neck reamed to 8mm, and saw no excess pressures. He even went bigger. But you better make a chamber cast before you start playing around. Have fun.


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## wicker762 (Dec 2, 2009)

hunter63 said:


> FYI, most of my re-loading manuals list the .308 bullet as a basis for the velocities printed for each load. Of course the companies that printed the manuals would want to error on the safe side?
> 
> Dia is a little small .308 but I guess it beats trying to load with .311 (.303 British).
> Haven't found many .310 bullets other than Norma's.
> ...



How does it beat loading with a .303 Bristish .311 bullet? Those Mosin bores will fire it safely and it is how almost all Mosin Reloaders do it except for those that cast thier own. Do some research and you will see that Mosins slug at .312/.313 or larger. A great many slug as high as .314 or .315. That's why the simple operation of slugging your barrel is needed before casting bullets.

The .303 British is the correct grain, dia., and length to use in this weapon. Do some research and see what the recomended bullets for the Mosin are. The bullets are .303 British bullets. The .308 is used in American .30 cal rifles not in a metric rifle. I have reloading manuals that go into detail about this very issue that is often missunderstood.

I have never in all my years of reloding read a load manual that recomends the .308 (as in 30-06 or .308/7.62x51) bullet in a 7.62x54R round. The Mosin was made to shoot a .311 or .312 jacketed bullet.

For example.

Lymann 48th Edition Reloading Handbook.
7.62x54R
All FMJ bullet dia. are .311 or .312. I can list the exact bullets if anyone wishes.
Recomended cast bullet size is .313. 
The test barrel groove dia. was .313.
The bullets listed (Sierra and Hornaday) are most often used for British .303 and or 7.62x54R.

Even the Lee Manual, which is a sad excuse for a data source says the bullet is .310 but the loader should check groove dia. before loading for proper bullet fit.

This isn't only the most common bullets used in 54R reloading but the RECOMENDED and SAFE way to do it. Using .308 bullets not intended for the 54R will work but are very inacurate. Not having correct barrel contact means poor accuracy and poor consistancy. So much for groups. Your bullet will not prooperly ride down the lands and grooves in your barrel the way proper functiong ammunition should. Any way you slice it the .308 bullet it the wrong bullet for the 7.62x54R round. Not to mention the future spliting of case necks from over working by clamping down on that bullet with the incorrect dia.

I don't mean to be a jerk and I certainly don't mean to be argumentative but loading information is serious stuff. A couple thous. one way or the other and someone could be seriously hurt. Look it up and you will find the information I'm sharing is completely accurate and correct.

If I were in dire circumstances would I use the .308? Sure, it's close enough and not too large so it should shoot safely but........the recomended correct bullet is available. Why would I want to take any risks or comprimise results when the bullets cost the same?


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

My new sierra manual has the 30-06, 308, 7.5 x 55 (k31 swiss) and 7.62 x 54r all using the same bullet....not talking about fitting to a slug measured barrel...just generic loads...


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## wicker762 (Dec 2, 2009)

ace admirer said:


> My new sierra manual has the 30-06, 308, 7.5 x 55 (k31 swiss) and 7.62 x 54r all using the same bullet....not talking about fitting to a slug measured barrel...just generic loads...


Yep, the 7.5 Swiss does use a .308 but it also sports a .308 groove dia. as does the 7.5 French Mas. However the 7.65 Argentine Mauser uses a .311/.312 bullet as it sports a .311 dia groove. The Argentine Mauser also uses the same bullets as the Mosin.

Remember, caliber nomenclature is nominal and not exact. For example the .303 British sports a .311 bore.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

wicker762 said:


> How does it beat loading with a .303 Bristish .311 bullet? Those Mosin bores will fire it safely and it is how almost all Mosin Reloaders do it except for those that cast thier own. Do some research and you will see that Mosins slug at .312/.313 or larger. A great many slug as high as .314 or .315. That's why the simple operation of slugging your barrel is needed before casting bullets.
> 
> The .303 British is the correct grain, dia., and length to use in this weapon. Do some research and see what the recomended bullets for the Mosin are. The bullets are .303 British bullets. The .308 is used in American .30 cal rifles not in a metric rifle. I have reloading manuals that go into detail about this very issue that is often missunderstood.
> 
> ...


Your points are well taken, but I think some things should be considered.

The Mosin Nagant probalely isn't the prefered MBR/hunting rifle.

Most people do not re-load (the exception being here on this/and other forums of this type)

Re-loading for the 7.62X54r with ammo prices still being cheap (relativity-Mid south sale flyer $94.+ change for 440 rds Russian or Hungarian), would put it down on my list of calibers to load/cast for.

Of those the do re-load, most do not "slug their bore", but do depend on loading data provided by others.: Manuals, data sheets with powders, dies sets, and yes, the Internet.

My reference about the .308 comes from "Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading", 7Th addition, PP 455 second/third paragraphs.

My main concern is safety also, so I choose to follow my referances/preferances.

Be safe and good shooting


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Then it is a *simple pull - seat operation*. I used to do that with the early SKS ammo


I dont see how that's possible if youre pulling a .311 bullet and replacing with a .308 projectile.
I would at the very least neck size the case


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I dont see how that's possible if youre pulling a .311 bullet and replacing with a .308 projectile.
> I would at the very least neck size the case


Did I mention 0.308" bullets? I had either IMI or Hornady 123 gr SP 0.311" bullets.


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I dont see how that's possible if youre pulling a .311 bullet and replacing with a .308 projectile.
> I would at the very least neck size the case


 Okay,I'll give away my arcane secret for using .308 bullets in a .310-312 bore.....Paperpatch-using either parchment paper or zigzags(in a pinch zags can also be used to set points on a Panhead).All my older reloading books say using .308 bullets is fine-there was'nt a big availability of .311.


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

klickitat said:


> .22, .22 mag, .223, 9x18, 9mm, .38 special, .357, 10mm, 30-30, 7.62x39, .308, 30-06, 7.62x54R, .410, 20g., 12g. Now I love my guns, but...........


yes, where IS the .45 ?


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## wicker762 (Dec 2, 2009)

hunter63 said:


> Your points are well taken, but I think some things should be considered.
> 
> The Mosin Nagant probalely isn't the prefered MBR/hunting rifle.
> 
> ...



No doubt there are better MBR's than the Mosin. I'm onboard with that 100%. It's one heck of a fun rifle to shoot but with so many modern choices featuring detachable mags, better sights, etc. it's more than a little outdated. Having said that if it was all I had or all I could afford I'd use it knowing it was a sturdy reliable unit. I think where it really shines, in that fashion, is for those with a very tight budget or an excellent intro into larger cal. rifles.

I too mostly shoot mil surp ammo. While you're not going to win any matches with the stuff it does what it's supposed to and was good enough for soilders all over the world. I pull out my small supply of modern ammo when I am itching to shoot some really good groups or want to see what a new Mosin can do. Most of the Mosins I've shot are better shooters than the ammo on hand. Most don't know just what good loads or handloads can do but you roll some rounds so I'm preaching to the choir.

I hear you on slugging the bore. I don't think most loaders do this simple and inexpensive step but it really does make a difference. Even when buying quality products like Lazer Cast it can make quite the diference. The LC .45ACP bullets can be had in .451 and .452, for example. Even some FMJ's come in .452. Which one will run best in your 1911 can be estimated very accurately via the process of slugging. One would think the standard JMB .451 would do the trick but.........I think it's more a matter of difference in build specs in modern firearms rather than quality control. 

With mil surp firearms, particularly the Mosin (which has such a wide variance in barrel bores) the slugging is even more important. I don't know your personal interests so I wont assume but I'm a "mil surp guy". Mil surp guys are probably far more likely (unless you are very serious about accuracy) than other shooters/reloaders to do slugging due to the often worn and variant (due to older production) barrel bores. Not to mention the fact that so many mil surp rifles were re chambered, making slugging an easy way to be sure of safe shooting.

Of course you know I recomend the .311 in the Mosin over the .308 for allready mentioned reasons but I'm not trying to say the .308 would be unsafe. I think it's possible some American manuals have not caught up on info for some eastern mil surps though.

I'm glad we can disscus our difference of opinion in an adult manner, two grown ups dishing out what they think is correct. After nearly a year of lurking the grown up attitude is one of the reasons I decided to join and participate.

Good shooting to you.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Wicker762, well said, Lot of good people here.

I some time wish information could be exchanged with out all the personnel stuff, agree or disagree.
Usually I will just bow out, if conversation start heading that way.

Frankly I have never slugged a bore.
Might be a good project for you to take us thru the process?
Regards, and keep your powder dry.
Hunter63

Yeah, they are fun too shoot, and addicting too.


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## Texas_Plainsman (Aug 26, 2007)

for a .30 caliber rifle:

1. get a .32 round lead ball and 4-8" sections of .25" round dowel
2. spray lube the barrel (some say this isn't necessary)
3. with a plastic/rubber hammer, start driving the the lead ball into the barrel
4. when you get close to the crown, start using a piece of dowel as a punch and drive the ball into the barrel
5. after being driven in, it starts moving easier, drive it as far as you can with the first section of dowel, add the second section of dowel, drive it as far as you can, enter the third....
6. take the slug out of the receiver and measure it with a vernier caliper

Watch "Iraqveteran8888" 's youtube on on it



hunter63 said:


> Wicker762, well said, Lot of good people here.
> 
> I some time wish information could be exchanged with out all the personnel stuff, agree or disagree.
> Usually I will just bow out, if conversation start heading that way.
> ...


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

wicker762, hunter63 and the rest,

Early variants of the Mosin-Nagant (like the M91 and some 20's vintage Finns) had .308 bores. The Soviets opened the bores up around the time the 91/30 was introduced. Many of the older rifles were modified to the new standard, but a few (especially those that came into the states between the wars) were not.

The reloading manuals are covering their sixes by stating the correct bullet is the .308, because they don't know what rifle you are loading for. If there is a "D" stamped on your receiver, then it should be .311. But slug your barrel to be sure.

Hope that helps.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> All my older reloading books say using .308 bullets is fine-there was'nt a big availability of .311.


That's why I automatically assumed everyone was replacing the .311's with .308's.

I dont think Id bother to paper patch them though. If I need that kind of accuracy, I'd use a better rifle/calber combination anyway


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Texas_Plainsman said:


> for a .30 caliber rifle:
> 
> 1. get a .32 round lead ball and 4-8" sections of .25" round dowel
> 2. spray lube the barrel (some say this isn't necessary)
> ...


Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.

Y'all measuring the top of the groves (deepest part of the rifling) or the over-all Dia. non rifled part?


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Found this, Thanks for the tip;
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErFaJlUVs1Y&NR=1&feature=fvwp[/ame]


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## wicker762 (Dec 2, 2009)

I subscribe to his channel. It's not too polished but I'm not too polished either.

Surplusrifle.com has a great article on slugging too. Surplus rifle is an excellent resource for the Mosin or any mil surp weapon.

Slugging probably isn't something a guy wants to do to each and every one of his rifles but is a great way to confirm caliber on rifles that may have been rechambered or for custom casting bullets to your rifle.

Hunter63, our disscusion has got me to thinking. Lee Enfields came mostly in .303 British with a .311 dia. bullet. I wonder if the .308 issued Enfields used the same barrel or a barrel that that was .308 specific? I cannot remember if the .308 Enfields were rechambered or if the were made that way. I'm going to do research this weekend and try to find out.


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Most were rebarreled in Ishapor if memory is correct.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

OK boys tried the pound the 36 cal round ball down the bore trick.
Seem to work OK, but am getting results that are out of round.
.300 to .313. W/ V-calipers and mic both. Not digital
So not very conclusive.

36 cal round ball might be a little big, but with the rem oil and bullet lube did go in pretty easy.
????
Got a few more, maybe give it another try

Anyway, did stop at the local toy store looking for .32 cal. round balls, course they didn't have any, but did have an Armalite AR 10......Left it there, y'all gonna get me in trouble.


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## Texas_Plainsman (Aug 26, 2007)

I've read "0" buck is .32



hunter63 said:


> OK boys tried the pound the 36 cal round ball down the bore trick.
> Seem to work OK, but am getting results that are out of round.
> .300 to .313. W/ V-calipers and mic both. Not digital
> So not very conclusive.
> ...


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## wicker762 (Dec 2, 2009)

http://www.surplusrifle.com/reloading/slug/index.asp
Link to Surplusrifle.com article. 

http://carteach0.blogspot.com/2007/10/slugging-bore-easy-way_07.html
Shows how to use 00 Buck.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

You might want to look at this for a chuckle. Click on one of the pictures for a firing demonstration to see how unhandy it is. 

http://www.cbrps.com/Products.html


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

WOW, what a PITA.......
Good thing he didn't have to work the safety!

For all those thinking about the Nagant as a hunting rifle, the safety is probably the main draw back .


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

Here's the one I built...


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

Ed Norman said:


> You might want to look at this for a chuckle. Click on one of the pictures for a firing demonstration to see how unhandy it is.
> 
> http://www.cbrps.com/Products.html


For me, the link only goes to a product line of stuff not really related to a Nagant, but I can attest to the unweildyness of the Nagant's safety. 

Bottom line, the Nagant is cheap and for good reasons. I'ts a workhorse, but an ugly one with crappy ergonomics, marginal accuracy, a dogpile of a trigger, and a safety mechanism that stinks beyond description. Of all the Mauser rip-offs I've played with, it's my least favorite.

....but it generally shoots when it's supposed to.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

swamp man said:


> For me, the link only goes to a product line of stuff not really related to a Nagant, but I can attest to the unweildyness of the Nagant's safety.
> 
> Bottom line, the Nagant is cheap and for good reasons. I'ts a workhorse, but an ugly one with crappy ergonomics, marginal accuracy, a dogpile of a trigger, and a safety mechanism that stinks beyond description. Of all the Mauser rip-offs I've played with, it's my least favorite.
> 
> ....but it generally shoots when it's supposed to.


You couldn't read past the second product on the page? Look at the third stock down, it's for the subject of this thread.


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## Texas_Plainsman (Aug 26, 2007)

Very nice. What kind of MOA do you get? Did you cut that barrel?



WindowOrMirror said:


> Here's the one I built...


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

no matter what you think of the Nagant, it will go the way of the mausers.....use to be able to purchase them from flour barrels in local hardware stores for $12.00....now they are in the 1/2 grand range. the Nagants you can purchase for what,,, $70.00....how long before they are 1/2 grand "wished i had purchased one" state.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

ace admirer said:


> no matter what you think of the Nagant, it will go the way of the mausers.....use to be able to purchase them from flour barrels in local hardware stores for $12.00....now they are in the 1/2 grand range. the Nagants you can purchase for what,,, $70.00....how long before they are 1/2 grand "wished i had purchased one" state.


Exactly, I watched this exact conversation with the SKS.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

ace admirer said:


> no matter what you think of the Nagant, it will go the way of the mausers.....use to be able to purchase them from flour barrels in local hardware stores for $12.00....now they are in the 1/2 grand range. the Nagants you can purchase for what,,, $70.00....how long before they are 1/2 grand "wished i had purchased one" state.


Yep. I've accumulated several Martini Cadets over the years. I read in the late 1950s, you could order a complete rifle for $5 or a barreled action for $8. What I would give for a truckload at those prices.


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

Ed, I got a 2"-2.5" group at 100 yards with Czech milsurp sealed-tin ammo. I cut the barrel, then 'crowned' it using a coned washer on the end of a drillpress with cutting paste (yes, I'm serious). Burned up the washer...

That rifle was easy to bring to shoulder and fire... great for a horseback weapon or trail gun. Forward scope, 1.5x or 2x (don't remember on that one)... both eyes open, could watch the trail and still acquire and fire.

R


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## Texas_Plainsman (Aug 26, 2007)

Not bad at all! I respect ingenuity. I have an M-44 that is scoped in "scout" configuration.



WindowOrMirror said:


> Ed, I got a 2"-2.5" group at 100 yards with Czech milsurp sealed-tin ammo. I cut the barrel, then 'crowned' it using a coned washer on the end of a drillpress with cutting paste (yes, I'm serious). Burned up the washer...
> 
> That rifle was easy to bring to shoulder and fire... great for a horseback weapon or trail gun. Forward scope, 1.5x or 2x (don't remember on that one)... both eyes open, could watch the trail and still acquire and fire.
> 
> R


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