# Vet Killed my goat!



## hrc8713 (Nov 3, 2005)

I have several goats, but only a couple are actually pets, so on Tuesday,
I took my goat (a pet) to see a local vet, she had been limping. He said her hoofs needed triming. She gave her two tranquillizers shots AND gas to make her relax. When he gave her the reversal she went into convulsions and died. He really was kinda of callused about it, said there would be no charge, he wouldn't do anything different, never apoligized, and left the room. I was extremely upset,  as she was more like a pet dog than a goat.
I have a couple of questions, 1. Does a goat really need all of these meds for a hoof trim? 2. Do goats have a problem with Tranqullizers? 3. Should he be responsible for the cost of replacing her, she was also expecting babies soon.

thanks for any advise


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## Caelma (Mar 7, 2005)

Might help someone to give advice if they knew
1) Do you know what 2 drugs he used?
2) Did he know she was prenant?
3) Did he try to trim before sedating her?
4) If so did she give him trouble with her feet?
5) Did he explain the possible complications and risks of sedation to you?
6) Have you sign a paper stating you such risks were explained and you?
7) Did you keep the goats body for (can't remember the name for critter autopsy) and to see how many babies she was carrying so you know your total loss?
8) Did you watch the whole proceedure? Did she not react the first shot?
Maybe it was not 2 things but more of the 1st if she was not as sedated as he wanted her.
I am so sorry about your loss. I'm sure you're quite upset.
Sounds fishy to me he said you didn't owe, all the vets I know explain risks and so you know going into it you could lose an animal to sedation.
I'm no lawyer nor a vet tech.
So sorry about your goat, hope someone on the board can guide you in the best course of action.

To answer your question ANY animal can have a reaction to any sedation, tranq or meds. May not be often but yes, animals die of reactions to things.


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## littlebitfarm (Mar 21, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your goat. I trim my goat hooves without any drugs. Just put a halter on them and tie them to a wall. Takes a couple minutes and I'm done. Don't know why the vet went with all the drugs! Can't really answer your questions.

Kathie


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## CountryDreams (Oct 10, 2005)

I am so sorry this happened to your pet goat. That is terrible, especially the way the vet just walked away from you and the situation.
I don't know about goats having a problem with tranquilizers but I do know that we trim our goat's hooves here on the homestead. Sometimes they don't like it but we just sort of "man handle" them. There has never been a need for sedation of any type.
I hope someone else comes along with more knowledge. I personally would go after the vet for, if for nothing else, the way he responded to the death of your pet.


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## Starsmom (Nov 7, 2004)

I am so very sorry for your loss. My sons buck had to have his horns surgically removed. The vet had to put him under to do it. He told me that goats are highly sensitive to anesthesia. He said he was only using enough to put a cat under. If you based it on their weight it would be way too much. Even that was alot for him. He liked to never woke him up. He gave him I believe 3 wake up shots, again, he was only using small doses. Obviously your vet did not know much about goats. I can't imagine having to put a pregnant doe under to trim the hooves.


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## debitaber (Jun 6, 2003)

I trim my goats hooves just before breeding, and then not again until after they kidd, stress can cause many things, so nevr take the chance. 
I put them on the milk stand, and tye them , and cut their hooves. easy as that.


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## hrc8713 (Nov 3, 2005)

ranchlady43 said:


> Might help someone to give advice if they knew
> 1) Do you know what 2 drugs he used?
> 2) Did he know she was prenant?
> 3) Did he try to trim before sedating her?
> ...


He never said anything about any possible reactions nor did he have me sign any papers. She was a little restless after the first shot when he began working on her, but not so I and my son could not hold her for him, but he gave her the gave the second shot and gas. He did say he based the drug on her weight. He knew she was pregant, very evident and we talked about it when he first examined her. The thing that really got me was the lack of response when she started having convlultions, I had to point out she had stopped breathing.

I realize that any living thing can have a reaction, it just seem overkill to sedate her a total of THREE times. Even worse, the vet techs just looked on while he worked on her, but no one helped. One of the other docs asked him to help with a dog WHILE he was trying to revive her! Also, he did not even try to give her oxgen. That vet, looked at her and said "goats, always looking for a a place to die". When he DID ask for a needle to give her the ephie, the needle was too short, and he did not get it into her heart.

He is large animal vet. but I just could not understand WHY he would sedate her for triming hoofs. 

I guess I would not be so upset if he had been compationate, and if she were not a pet. 

I sent him a letter, going over all he did and how I think he killed her because of his Incompetance and asked him for the cost of her and the babies she was carrying. It is not the money, but I want to make sure he understand I am not dumb and I know he messed up. It is a small community and I will let EVERYONE know NOT to use him.

While I have a lot of chickens, goats, geese, lambs, etc, few are the famly pets and the vet's attitude and her death really got me upset. It just a waste with anything dies for not purpose. :bash: 

thanks for all your replies.


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## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

From everything you describe, which is all I can go on, I see this as a case of malpractice. It sounds to me like the drugs were used to make life easy for the vet, but goats do NOT need to be tranquilized for a hoof trim. Now perhaps he could defend this by saying he didn't want to cause stress on a pregnant doe, which theorectically is true, since a kicking and fussing mom to be could potentially harm the kids. But if you say she was able to be held, then the drugs make no sense, especially on a pregnant mom. Surely this vet being a large animal guy should know goats do not handle anesthesia well at all, and to risk this on a hoof trim seems to fly in the face of "first do no harm." I have heard many incidents of vets who believe goats have little value and this seems to influence their treatment. The entire event you describe, along w/ wrong needle and abhorrent conduct might be enough for you to bring a malpractice suit. I truly don't know enough if you would have a case or not. I'm sure your letter did not put him in a better mood! This is why I trim hooves right before breeding so when I do them next it will be a brief and easy job during pregnancy. I am so sorry you had to go through this - what a nightmare to lose animals this way! I'd love to see this case on Judge Judy! To answer your question I would tend to believe yes, the vet did kill your goat.


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## caberjim (Feb 19, 2004)

I am really surprised he felt the need to sedate a goat just to trim the hooves. Is he familiar with goats? Sounds to me like he really screwed up. Not sure exactly what you can do other than sue. 

My only real suggestion for the future is to learn to trim the hooves yourself. Trimmers are cheap and the internet has lots of good descriptions and pictures. Just takes patience and practice. 

Goats seem to be a mystery to most vets in the US since many rarely see them. Best to gain as much knowledge as you possibly can to do most of the vet work yourself. Protects your animals and saves you a pile of money. 

I'm very sorry about your loss.


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## Ark (Oct 5, 2004)

I am SO sorry about the loss of your sweet girl.  

I want you to know that although we have only had goats for a little over a year, it only takes 3 of us to trim the hooves of a WILD goat. We bought a HUGE Boer goat (my hubby said close to 200 lbs) whose feet were in TERRIBLE condition. She was not used to people so my son held her head, my husband stood behind her and kept her from backing up, and I trimmed her feet. *NO MEDICATION, NO EXTRA STRESS. * 

I hope you can make the vet pay for her and the babies so that he will be more careful in the future, even though it won't bring your girl back...

Take care,
Rachel


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## Jen H (Jun 16, 2004)

caberjim said:


> Goats seem to be a mystery to most vets in the US since many rarely see them. Best to gain as much knowledge as you possibly can to do most of the vet work yourself. Protects your animals and saves you a pile of money.


That's been my experience as well. Vets either want to treat goats like sheep, in which case they end up mineral deficient with all sorts of odd little symptoms, or like cows, in which case they get way to much anasthesia for any sort of procedure.

I'm really sorry about your girl. It hurts to loose a pet so needlessly.


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

I'm really sorry to hear about your goat. Some vets can be very callous and uncaring.


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## chma4 (Feb 27, 2005)

I worked for a vet or 2 in my time. The reason he sedated that goat was to charge her for sedating the goat. How much can you charge for a hoof trimming? NOt much. If he owned the practice, I would suspect he went for the sedation for the extra $. It's such a shame. If he does not respond properly to your letter, I would deffinately expose him. Write your local paper in a few weeks if you get no response from your letter. Its a shame so many vets these days are so $ hungry. MAKES ME MAD!!!! That was the reason I left the last vet. They "made a few changes" , seemed like stealing from their clients and they just wanted more money. Most of the time they get away with it, sometimes you have an outcome like this. so sad =(


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Goats can be trained to stand, all of mine exept the babies stand for it. Even the untame buck. If i have to restrain them i push thier noses into the fence and then use thier leash to strap them in, painless and easy.


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## Dee (May 12, 2002)

Sorry about your baby. Did you think about posting on the Homestead thread? Maybe you can find a lawyer or someone with something simular that doesn't normally read the goat post?

My experience is with disbudding. The first time the vet sedated the kids...actually, they became sedated after the burning was done, then I spent the afternoon watching them so they didn't fall over and came out of it okay. Now I tell the vet, just do it and hold them for him. Done and over. 

He has now informed me that goats are not livestock, but pet animals so he will no longer be handling them. Not livestock :shrug:


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

> He has now informed me that goats are not livestock, but pet animals so he will no longer be handling them. Not livestock


Uh huh. And when did you last milk your pet cat? I've never heard of commercial dog dairies - have you?  Sounds like you need to find another vet.


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## moosemaniac (Mar 7, 2003)

Dee said:


> He has now informed me that goats are not livestock, but pet animals so he will no longer be handling them. Not livestock :shrug:


Cool, tell that to my insurance guy!
And very sorry for your loss. It's bad enough to lose one when there's a good reason.
Ruth


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## Home~Maker (Sep 28, 2005)

I'm sorry to hear about your goat. It sounds like the vet had no clue what he was doing; like over-sedating a dog to clip its toenails. I say, if the letter does not get a response within a week, file a malpractice suit, or at the very least threaten to. I'm fairly sure you can actually hire a lawyer to make the phone call for you, and make the threat on your behalf. I wouldn't call any newspapers without talking to a lawyer first; otherwise it's just your word against his, and it could backfire on you (he could actually sue YOU). I hope things come out in your favor; keep us posted, okay?


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## titansrunfarm (Aug 14, 2005)

A vet killed my dog, I reported him to the state vetrinary board. He had had complaints before and also acted cold about the death. Did give my my money back, big deal, I lost a good friend. Anyway every state has a veterinary board, find yours and report his malpractice. I am a nurse and live/work by this rule: if you don't know the med or know how to use the med, don't give the med! Sounds like a possible case of oversedation and sebsequent hypoxic siezures, epi alone would not fix this, she needed O2 and resucitation! I'm so sorry for your loss, but I wold not let this go.


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## mem (Oct 28, 2005)

First -- I am sorry about your loss, and the callousness that you perceived on the part of the doctor.

Secondly -- How can you folks presume to make medical judgments about what is malpractice? I didn't figure that this group of folks would be the ones looking for someone to blame and take to court. ANY time an animal of ANY sort is sedated/anesthetized for ANY procedure, there are associated risks, and death is among those risks (one of the reasons that I avoid surgeries). Because the goat died, it does not mean that the veterinarian did anything wrong. Unless and until we have the education, experience, and training to make the decisions that a licensed professional can make, we are not equipped to judge. And if we have that training, then we don't need to take our animals to the vet. The owner has the right to tell the doctor "No, I don't want this animal sedated". If the vet goes against the wishes of the owner, then there is cause for action, such as contacting your state Veterinary Medical Board.

To the individual that said that the doctor did it just to charge for the shot. That is a blatant mis-statement in 99.99% of cases. Any veterinarian knows that it is unethical, if not illegal, to administer an unnecessary medication. And yes, costs of veterinary care do rise -- it is a business. If the vet can't make a profit, (s)he goes out of business, and we have no one to take care of our critters. And no -- most vets do not make a ton of money.


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## Tarot Farm (May 22, 2005)

chma4 said:


> I worked for a vet or 2 in my time. The reason he sedated that goat was to charge her for sedating the goat. How much can you charge for a hoof trimming? NOt much. If he owned the practice, I would suspect he went for the sedation for the extra $. It's such a shame. If he does not respond properly to your letter, I would deffinately expose him. Write your local paper in a few weeks if you get no response from your letter. Its a shame so many vets these days are so $ hungry. MAKES ME MAD!!!! That was the reason I left the last vet. They "made a few changes" , seemed like stealing from their clients and they just wanted more money. Most of the time they get away with it, sometimes you have an outcome like this. so sad =(


First of all, I want to say how sorry that I am for your loss of your pet. My animals are more like 'fur children' than animals. I understand.

Secondly, I have been a vet tech for more years than I care to remember. I know that most of them have not had enough training on goats and how to treat them. Yes, I agree they can be money hungry and this one sounds like he has a mental problem too; just walking out the door! :grit: 

The reason that goats get such bad care and under/over dosed, is because they are not so much of a 'high demand' animal/livestock. What I mean is that animals such as dogs and cats get more care from the vets than most goats do...SO, it is a big money making thing for the drug and research companies! Again, the key here is making money, not proper animal care.

Since the goats are not going to be taken to the vet that much, they have not had the funding for the research needed to determine the proper doses (or safety) of certain drugs used to treat them. Cattle and horses, swine, even poultry have more research done than the poor lonely goat. If goats became a big money making industry; then, we would see more research being done for the drugs and treatments, etc. 

I was working for a vet when a good friend of mine brought in a Pygmy goat with a 'breech kid'. The goat was bellering like crazy (I would be too) and the vet wanted to put it to sleep first! I was there attending the vet (I was his assistant then...LOL) while he examined the goat. I could tell what was wrong with her, but HE INSISTED that she had bloat! He wanted to stab her in the side; wrong place and side too. Well, I told her if she wanted to save her goat to take it across the river to another vet....he was clear in his office reading on how to treat for goats with bloat...but of course he heard me tell her...which I did not care...since I wanted to save her goat and it's kids. He said HE was the vet and KNEW what HE was doing! Well, the goat delivered three fine kids by C-section at the other vet and he made my life pure H*** for the rest of the week until he fired me. Best thing he ever did in my opinion...might have saved his life...I was ready to kill him over that one. :grit: 

He also tells people with Minis and ponies to just give 'half of a dose of vaccination' to them too. :bash:


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## chma4 (Feb 27, 2005)

I am sorry, if a vet doesnt know what he is doing with a goat, he shouldnt be doin anything with that goat. If he did know what he was doing, he wouldnt have sedated that goat to trim its hooves (assuming the facts we are givin are straight) . So if you put 2 and 2 together, you might see the possibility of an alterior motive. Anyone, even an honest vet, must see what some vets are capable of. A truly good vet does things the hard way for the sake of the animal. No good vet would do what this vet did, goat or any other creature, bottom line. It happens too often, and as a vet tech, I saw way TOOOOO much of things like that.


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## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

What raises the red flag for me is that this procedure did not call for sedation. If I can do these maintenance procedures by myself (and I'm a small person) and even disbudding without help, then I can't see how a simple hoof trim with assistants could warrant BOTH drugs and gas. Talk about literal overkill. And the poster was correct - if the vet was not up on goats he should never have administered tranquilizers. And remember this was a pregnant animal too. Now I have no idea from a legal standpoint whether this merits malpractice. But I'd be pretty upset too if I were the owner.


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## Goat Freak (Jul 6, 2005)

I know that obvously not too many people do it, but we trim our goats hooves EVERY four months at least, and at LEAST 1-2 months BEFORE they kid, that way we do not have to bother them later and they can spend the time being mommas. That and since i am in shool I use every three day weekend I can get to trim hooves, and if I wait till they are NOT pregnant, a woopin 2 months a year for the ones that ARE pregnant, they're hooves get overgrown, ours grow FAST on some of them, and I then do not have a three day weekend in sight, I have pretty bad luck with my time. Well that was ALL that I wanted to say, bye.


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## hrc8713 (Nov 3, 2005)

moonspinner said:


> What raises the red flag for me is that this procedure did not call for sedation. If I can do these maintenance procedures by myself (and I'm a small person) and even disbudding without help, then I can't see how a simple hoof trim with assistants could warrant BOTH drugs and gas. Talk about literal overkill. And the poster was correct - if the vet was not up on goats he should never have administered tranquilizers. And remember this was a pregnant animal too. Now I have no idea from a legal standpoint whether this merits malpractice. But I'd be pretty upset too if I were the owner.


I am really not intrested in suing this vet. In a perfect world I would have my pet back. But I actually wanted to see some compassion, an apology, that goes a LONG way in any tragedy. All of us who have pets, and farm animals know that accidents happen, I can accept that, but being neglent and then cold when something like this happens shows what kind of vet he is, not one I will ever use again.

What may have been lost from my origianl post, is that I brought her in for a lame right leg, which did NOT need triming, he looked at the other legs and decied that they needed it. I do believe he was sedating her to charge for it.I have trimed my goats myself without needing sedation, but he said hers were really bad, but he did NOT trim the right one. 

I really was just looking for some advise from others who have goats, his actions seemed to me to be improper and cold. Especially since she was expecting, and a pet. He went into great detail how he would do the same thing again, he would do nothing different, he would treat the next goat the same, SCARY!


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## Goat Freak (Jul 6, 2005)

That sounds REALLY rude.


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## Starsmom (Nov 7, 2004)

I know you said he didn't charge you, did you get any kind of receipt showing you were there and he performed that procedure? If you didn't I would go back and get it immediately. I would ask for a copy of her medical records for your "records" they have to give them to you. Then you should know exactly what he did, if he recorded it. He probably didn't. 

I know what you mean about an apology. I took my dog in to the vet to have a tumor removed. I asked them why she was in constant heat and bleeding. They said they would look at it. They removed her tumor and we discussed spaying her. She was 16 and I didn't think it was necessary as she wasn't gonna get bred. What the vet failed to tell me was that it was necessary and that she had an very severe infection in her uterus. They performed the surgery to remove several tumors and sent her home. One month later she was back there nearly paralyzed. The infection had taken hold and was shutting her system down. The told me she needed to be spayed. I authorized the surgery and she lived a couple days more. I can't help but believe that if they had informed me of the infection (that was the constant bleeding) and done both surgeries at the same time, she would have lived. I got charged with 2 surgeries ($800) and my baby died anyway. The vet sent me a card and said she made a donation to the humane society in my dogs name. But she never said she was sorry and I think the delay in the surgery was because she knew I would have to come back and the charges would be alot more. 

I have since found a much more compassionate vet and very informative. He did surgery on one of our goats and actually had to repeat it several times and only charged me once.


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## Jen H (Jun 16, 2004)

hrc8713I really was just looking for some advise from others who have goats said:


> He needs to read up on how goats respond to anesthesia of any kind. They don't respond well to any kind of tranquilizers or anesthesia - you use as little as you can possibly get away with. For a lame leg - the first thing I would look for would be something caught between the toes or an absess. That just doesn't require sedation. It only requires someone to hold the critter still. Even when I've dealt with hoof rot, I haven't needed to sedate the animal.
> 
> Bottom line, that vet doesn't know what he's doing when it comes to goats and needs to be reported to the govening agency. Before he kills someone else's goat. Whether or not you take legal action against him, the regulatory board needs to know that his practices are putting animals in direct risk.


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## goatee (Sep 30, 2004)

I would wait in the bushes and when he came out I would ballbat his brain out.I guess i like goats more than humans.They are a better class of life.


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## Goat Freak (Jul 6, 2005)

i do not know if I would go to those extremes goatee, but that vet would have pure hell for a LONG time!


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## almostthere (Nov 9, 2003)

*"goats, always looking for a a place to die". *  

I dont know about sueing, but you might need a lawyer. He needs to be reported, if anything so it can be investigated. JMHO, of coarse.


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## SmokedCow (Sep 25, 2004)

ranchlady43 said:


> 7) Did you keep the goats body for (can't remember the name for critter autopsy) and to see how many babies she was carrying so you know your total loss?
> .


First-I read this and i have NEVER posted on the Goat Board before...Sorry for your loss..and its called Nuercropsy (that phoneticly spelled..Im horrible at spellin!) Again...sorry for your loss...I know what its like.
Aj


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

First, I've found that there are two sides to every story. I have a hard time believing that a vet would tell a client that goats are just looking for a place to die. I don't know how you could be in practice more than a week making comments that stupid.

But assuming your comments are accurate, the vet's response to the death is definitely inappropriate, and sounds like poor judgment to give more drugs.

For those that insist that a vet shouldn't give drugs to a goat without complete and proper knowledge - I hope you are willing to pay for the training necessary to become fully trained in treating every specie that comes in, and in anesthesiology for every specie. In human medicine (a single specie), such a person would do a residency for years after medical school. That, and the malpractice insurance, would require charging several times what a vet would charge.

I assume this vet should have done better, but applying the same standards to small town vets as we would to specialty trained physicians is unfair. If you want the ultimate care for your goats, take them to veterinary schools with specialists.

I know a vet who left practice because he couldn't deal with upset clients who expected him to know much more, but didn't want to pay. Often he thought he could do something, but would find out there were things he didn't know.


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## chma4 (Feb 27, 2005)

My vet doesnt know much about goats, and wont see them. He doesnt see them because he (like this vet) wouldnt know what to do for a goat, how it responds to meds, how it responds to anesthesia etc. etc. etc. Any DECENT vet would use that same judgement. Unfortunately for me I have to drive 45min to see a goat vet, but I do, and I appreciate my vets honesty and integrity. I think that is what people are trying to relay here. Its not that he made a mistake, its that he didnt know any better, or didnt care. Either way, he was wrong. She should make sure that her freinds and fellow goat lovers know enough to stay away from his practice end of story!


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## Misty (May 29, 2005)

hrc8713 said:


> I have several goats, but only a couple are actually pets, so on Tuesday,
> I took my goat (a pet) to see a local vet, she had been limping. He said her hoofs needed triming. She gave her two tranquillizers shots AND gas to make her relax. When he gave her the reversal she went into convulsions and died. He really was kinda of callused about it, said there would be no charge, he wouldn't do anything different, never apoligized, and left the room. I was extremely upset,  as she was more like a pet dog than a goat.
> I have a couple of questions, 1. Does a goat really need all of these meds for a hoof trim? 2. Do goats have a problem with Tranqullizers? 3. Should he be responsible for the cost of replacing her, she was also expecting babies soon.
> 
> thanks for any advise


No meds for hoof trimming. You just do it. It doesn't hurt them unless you get too close to the quick. Then it bleeds and bleeds and bleeds. Yes, goats are sensitive to tranquillizers. Xylocaine call kill a goat. quick. 
Sorry for your loss....good goat vets are hard to find. There are good one's who say, "I don't know goats." and there are one's who say, "Goats are just like any other critter". Stay away from those. 
www.geocities.com/buckshotboers2003
www.geocities.com/gonzalesshowpigs


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## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

DJ, I can personally vouch for at least one vet who after treating a goat who died told the person "Goats are pretty useless anyway." From my goater network of friends this is not at all uncommon. Also there seems to be too little knowledge about goat health out there, as evidenced by very few meds being labled for caprine use. Because they are not viewed as having much purpose other than the family milker, little research has been done on them. I know of a vet who gave a BoSe overdose to two beautiful mini show does on a simple health checkup, despite the very knowledgable owner who pointed out her area was not deficient and it was not needed. But at the time she was very young and was intimidated by the vet. So yes, the prejudice runs high. Morevoer, even in the goat world itself, we who raise nigerians have run up against heavy prejudice by those fellow goat owners and judges who claim our breed is still merely a "lawn ornament."


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## hrc8713 (Nov 3, 2005)

DJ in WA said:


> First, I've found that there are two sides to every story. I have a hard time believing that a vet would tell a client that goats are just looking for a place to die. I don't know how you could be in practice more than a week making comments that stupid.
> 
> But assuming your comments are accurate, the vet's response to the death is definitely inappropriate, and sounds like poor judgment to give more drugs.



Yes, he did say "goats are always looking for a place to die" I guess under his care they are! He went to Auburn University and told me that this happened to one of his fellow students years ago but they continued to dose the same. I think he was trying to cover his.. He sees farm animals and even has a vet truck to go on farm calls. I think he really screwed up and just did not want to admit he messed up and not to menton his staff's lack of response to the crisis. I sent him a letter on Thursday and I will see how he responds. I guess I should give him a little credit, he had his staff send a preprinted, not signed sympathy card. (Yes, I am being sarcastic)  .


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## silentcrow (Mar 15, 2005)

Though this wasn't for a goat, more vets should be this way.... I had taken a hen to a vet for an impacted crop. I was new to poultry and had never dealt with that kind of problem. The vet examined her, said what they "might" be able to do, but admitted she knew nothing about poultry. She was honest and polite the entire time. I opted to try taking care of the problem myself. She didn't even charge me for the visit/consultation. It's nice to know there are vets out there that aren't just in it for the money.

I've cared for goats in the past. Usually a hoof trim was done by a farrier or an Amishman. Never needed sedation. We just held them still while the work was being done. Even a single person could do it, if you can hog-tie the goat.


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## Home~Maker (Sep 28, 2005)

hrc8713 said:


> I guess I should give him a little credit, he had his staff send a preprinted, not signed sympathy card. (Yes, I am being sarcastic)  .


Save the card! It's proof you were there, and proof that your goat died. If you don't have a receipt for the visit at least you have that.


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## Jen H (Jun 16, 2004)

The vet in this area I have the most respect for was the lady who told me straight out that she handles horses and cattle, she knows nothing about the smaller ruminants (but likes them and thinks they're fun). Then she gave me the name of a vet she knew handled sheep and probably would see goats. You can bet I kept that lady's number and will be calling her if I decide to run cows here.

The vet she referred me to does do a good job on sheep. He does just an ok job on goats - basically treats them like they're weird looking sheep. At least that means he underdoses the goats which won't kill them and I can correct easily.


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## DayBird (Jul 26, 2004)

Our new memeber is a great friend of mine. I didn't even know he had joined Homesteading Today until this morning.

His pet goat, Nan, was a big, beautiful boar who was what?, probably just weeks from delivering. She would sit in a lawn chair on his driveway and just watch the world pass. She was good natured and very gentle.



hrc8713 said:


> What may have been lost from my origianl post, is that I brought her in for a lame right leg, which did NOT need triming, he looked at the other legs and decied that they needed it. I do believe he was sedating her to charge for it.I have trimed my goats myself without needing sedation, but he said hers were really bad, but he did NOT trim the right one.



I think it was two weeks ago, my family was over for lunch after church. We trimmed her hooves at the time and she didn't need any sedation. He held her and I trimmed them down. She was lame in the front right leg, but it wasn't because her hooves were overgrown.

Pretending that she was not overdosed, can a pregnant goat have any other reactions to normal sedation that would cause her to convulse and die?


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## trappmountain (Jun 22, 2005)

I just got my 2 goats in April. until we get the new barn built(hubby said 2 years) we have been using the 2 person method. You may like to try it if you don't have a place to tie them to.

Let me first say we have pygmy goats so they are small. My son pu them on his lapwith their head just below his shopulder with the rest of the body draping down between his legs. He strokes their necks and talks to them while I trim the hoofs. It works very well. It keeps them calm while I do the trimming. Let me also say this is not a young child my son is 15 and 6 ft tall.

I am very sorry for your loss. I will not comment on the vet since I do not have all the details. But thought this might help you do your own trimming so you don't have this problem again.


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## Lesa Rozelle (Jun 14, 2018)

I’m so glad I came here for an answer. I cannot find anyone that will trim my Nigerian Dwarf goat’s hooves. I finally checked with the vet and she said she would have to be sedated. I told her no because I can’t imagine that being a good idea. So sorry you lost yours!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lesa Rozelle said:


> I cannot find anyone that will trim my Nigerian Dwarf goat’s hooves.


Buy some inexpensive tools, watch a couple of Youtubes, and do them yourself.
There's no need for sedation or trips to a Vet.


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## happy hermits (Jan 2, 2018)

Wow what a nightmare, I am so sorry for your loss. I know you got a lot of advise on trimming hooves. I just wanted to say. Do not beat yourself up, you were trying to take care of the goat. Learn from the experience and move on.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Lesa Rozelle said:


> I’m so glad I came here for an answer. I cannot find anyone that will trim my Nigerian Dwarf goat’s hooves. I finally checked with the vet and she said she would have to be sedated. I told her no because I can’t imagine that being a good idea. So sorry you lost yours!


Lesa - While searching the forums is excellent, PLEASE REFRAIN from dredging up old threads. Prior to the new comment on Thursday, this thread was last commented on in 2005. The issue has been resolved and many of those posters likely no longer frequent this forum. 

Use old threads as a resource, but if you must comment PLEASE start a new thread to ask questions or get information. 

As for sedation, it is NECESSARY and SAFE when done correctly for some procedures. I generally avoid it unless it would cause unnecessary pain and suffering for the animal OR if the animal is unruly and cannot be treated otherwise OR if it puts myself or others in danger to treat without sedation. That being said, a goat hoof trim does not generally need sedation or anesthesia. It is a procedure that does not require a vet, as it is easy to do yourself at home. 

Welcome to the forum!


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

I’m sorry about your pet. For as many goats that we have in the U.S., it is surprising how few vets we have that really understand goats. With that being said, you, as an owner need to be come well educated on your goats. I was fortunate that my large animal vet worked with me to care for the girls. He told me upfront he didn’t know much about them but he was always willing to reach out to the university or even me to make sure he was treating them correctly. We had a nice partnership nd that is what you need with a vet.


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## Grey Mare (Jun 28, 2013)

OP....have you thought about sitting down and writing that vet a heartfelt letter explaining how it made you feel and what this has done to you emotionally? It won't bring your doe back but it may make you feel a little better, even if he doesn't care or reads it or throws it away, least you can get those emotions out. 

Again, so sorry for the loss of your doe..

And it is a necropsy I think another poster was referring to.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

I wonder if the vet ever responded to the letter, buts its a 13 year old thread and the last time the posted posted was 9 years ago.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Ok, I shouldn't say this out loud, but that has never stopped me before. If you can't trim your goats feet, you shouldn't have goats. I am an old man and I trim the hooves of unbroken horses. Do you own a rope?

Not judging mind you, just asking.


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## meadowskipfarm (3 mo ago)

littlebitfarm said:


> Sorry to hear about your goat. I trim my goat hooves without any drugs. Just put a halter on them and tie them to a wall. Takes a couple minutes and I'm done. Don't know why the vet went with all the drugs! Can't really answer your questions. Kathie


 Just my perspective, my goat is absolutely horrible for hoof trims. And he is a huge Nubian who substantially outweighs me. His hoofs also grow crazy fast so we have to trim him often, unlike my sheep. I would absolutely take the risk of a bit of sedation to do his feet, if I could!


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## meadowskipfarm (3 mo ago)

chma4 said:


> I worked for a vet or 2 in my time. The reason he sedated that goat was to charge her for sedating the goat. How much can you charge for a hoof trimming? NOt much. If he owned the practice, I would suspect he went for the sedation for the extra $. It's such a shame. If he does not respond properly to your letter, I would deffinately expose him. Write your local paper in a few weeks if you get no response from your letter. Its a shame so many vets these days are so $ hungry. MAKES ME MAD!!!! That was the reason I left the last vet. They "made a few changes" , seemed like stealing from their clients and they just wanted more money. Most of the time they get away with it, sometimes you have an outcome like this. so sad =(


Wow. All I can say is wow. I happily sedate my own animals for any procedure that will be stressful for them. That includes my cat for vaccines. Not “knock out” sedate, but “take the edge off” sedate. Since I am their veterinarian, I am not gouging myself for money. In fact, it costs me extra money, but believe it or not, I do it because it is what’s best for my pet.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

meadowskipfarm said:


> Wow. All I can say is wow. I happily sedate my own animals for any procedure that will be stressful for them. That includes my cat for vaccines. Not “knock out” sedate, but “take the edge off” sedate. Since I am their veterinarian, I am not gouging myself for money. In fact, it costs me extra money, but believe it or not, I do it because it is what’s best for my pet.


This is a ancient thread, but since you resurrected it...

Are you, indeed, a veterinarian, or are you saying that you vet your own stock?

If you cannot handle your buck or any other goat without drugging it, as @muleskinner2 suggested in a previous comment, you may want to consider animals that you can handle. At the very least, it seems it would be a good idea to get a new buck and train it properly.

An animal you can't handle is a dangerous animal, whether or not you have access to drugs.


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## BadOregon (12 mo ago)

meadowskipfarm said:


> Wow. All I can say is wow. I happily sedate my own animals for any procedure that will be stressful for them. That includes my cat for vaccines. Not “knock out” sedate, but “take the edge off” sedate. Since I am their veterinarian, I am not gouging myself for money. In fact, it costs me extra money, but believe it or not, I do it because it is what’s best for my pet.


If you truly are a vet, I am sorry for your patients. I have had pets and livestock all my life and never heard of ANY vet that would "happily" sedate any animal unnecessarily. 
Unless they are unruly or extremely agitated, there is no reason to sedate an animal for vaccinations. 

I have had goats for 30+ years and have had several vets. Some good, some not so good, but all of them were honest, caring individuals who were willing to admit when 
they did not know or when there was an issue with a procedure. Otherwise they would not have been working with/on my animals. 

If one of them had done what the OP stated, I would have made darn sure the vet board knew about it and also everyone I knew with livestock did as well. Several of the comments on here make it sound like vets are gods (which they aren't) since they have "an education". There is so little training/research done with goats that you are 
extremely lucky to get a vet with ANY knowledge about them. They do the best they can with what they do know, but a lot of times the goat people who have had years
of experience are more helpful.

NONE of my goats have EVER needed sedation for hoof trimming. If a vet suggested that, I would pack up my goat and go home. Goats are notorious for being
very sensitive to anesthesia. For a simple exam and hoof trim, no way.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I was going to ask what he used where he got it , thinking he himself was not a licensed vet. Ya i know some medications are available without a vet script . like rabies vaccines, a few states allow you to order and ship to your home for you to administrator. But never seen any true sedative available for diy use. Or euthanasia drug. I know the vinegar backing soda chamber even have a bottle of what not to mention also used in a chamber both suggested by my vet at the time . nowadays no way a vet would be so helpful. Too much lost income for them not including their licences at risk. Farms and ranchers ( at least the ones I personally know, lived on)have a vet that oversees medication you administrator. Kinda like having a lawyer on retainer, use him get a bill. 
Asking I guess its no different when we humans look ask about alternative
medications legal or not. 
I too have had a vet kill an animal , cat from a reaction to a flea pill they gave him before being neutered. I did cause the vets to change the rule of giving all cats and dogs a Capstar pill before surgery when the animal did not show flea infestation. My cat did not have fleas. Not much you can do. The things you need to pay for to prove your belief can be undoable. Folks here had sudden death of goats for example. The suggested autopsy was the only way to know for sure. When a vet or doctor is no longer trusted move on and report. 
Anyway some home remedies are good to know if for no other reason the shtf event.
But i encourage research before you experimental on living things. And a back up plan when it gos wrong. Ok just my 3 am not sleeping ramble


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