# Freedom Ranger ?



## Guest

Now that the minimum order isn't 100, and you don't have to buy just one variety, I am seriously considering getting a box of 25 mixed varieties. I want to keep the hens and a couple roosters, and let them breed into my current flock.

Does anyone know if the hens go broody?


----------



## copperhead46

I don't know anything about them, bur I want to try them this year instead of the cornish cross


----------



## Our Little Farm

Yes they do, and make very good mothers. 

Had some a few years back. Unfortunately a neighbors dog got them after a couple of years


----------



## Guest

copperhead46 said:


> I don't know anything about them, bur I want to try them this year instead of the freedom rangers


Your statement has me confused.

The topic is about Freedom Rangers. What is it you want to try instead?


----------



## Guest

Our Little Farm said:


> Yes they do, and make very good mothers.
> 
> Had some a few years back. Unfortunately a neighbors dog got them after a couple of years


Glad to hear about the broodiness.

Sad to hear about the dog.


----------



## Our Little Farm

OOps dble post


----------



## Our Little Farm

That is what I liked about them. Great large birds for meat, yet healthy enough to go on to lay eggs and even go broody and raise chicks. 

They are also very good foragers.


----------



## copperhead46

I changed it, I meant instead of Cornish cross, I raised them last year and they did well, but they're such fast growers and the meat was really dry


----------



## Our Little Farm

As with any large bird, butcher young or the meat will be tough. It says on the website when to butcher.


----------



## sunshinytraci

I am going to try them too this year. How is their taste overall compared to the Cornish Crosses. I have read that they are good foragers and I know for a fact that the Cornish Cross stink at foraging. I hear they are a fast growing bird that forages well and has similar texture and flavor to the Cornish. Is this true?


----------



## Our Little Farm

I have never tasted a Cornish. 
You have to butcher young as they grow quickly. They taste delicious. 

Eggs are large.

I think Mother Earth News did a blurb on them a few years back, they were impressed.


----------



## Guest

Our Little Farm said:


> I have never tasted a Cornish.


If you have ever eaten chicken from the grocery store or a restaurant or fast food place, you have eaten cornish cross.


----------



## Our Little Farm

Then I possibly have. I do know that home raised chickens taste very different. More flavorful.


----------



## DayBird

Ok ladycat, where are ordering these from? There was a producer near us, but I can't find them now.


----------



## Guest

DayBird said:


> Ok ladycat, where are ordering these from? There was a producer near us, but I can't find them now.


I posted it on Facebook a couple days ago, you missed that one. 

The Rangers are patented, and as far as I know, only ONE hatchery in the US has them: http://www.freedomrangerhatchery.com/


----------



## Our Little Farm

They are the daughter and SIL of JM Hatchery where I got mine from a few years back. EXCELLENT service and wonderful folk.


----------



## Shygal

http://www.meyerhatchery.com/produc...ickens&grd_prodone_filter=PRODUCT_ID = 'RRBS'

They have the same things that the Freedom Rangers say their chicks are an assortment of, Redbro, Yellow and Tricolor


----------



## unregistered168043

Freedom rangers are a cross-breed chicken. They are not a 'true breed' meaning that they do not breed true. If you breed freedom rangers, you will not get freedom rangers. You will get an assortment of mixed chicks with unknown traits. Kind of like replanting hybrid corn.

If you plan on breeding your chickens IMO it is best to stick to true breed, heritage chickens.


----------



## Our Little Farm

I do not agree. If you want great meat birds that grow fast, but have the ability to lay eggs (hens) and go broody, to get another batch to raise, then Freedom Rangers are great.
If you are selling chicks, then you will get an assortment so may not be best, but for an average homesteader these are great birds. 

Darntootin, have you raised them? I have.


----------



## unregistered168043

I have not raised them ( for the reasons I have explained), what I am saying is a matter of fact. You may have been happy with the mixed results of breeding freedom rangers, but what you got were not freedom rangers. What you got was a hodge-podge mixture of all the different breeds that go into a freedom ranger.

They are a proprietary hybrid. The formula for making them isn't even available to the public so far as I know. You can breed cornish crosses too, but the result won't be a cornish cross ( doesn't mean you won't be happy with them ).

http://www.backyardpoultrymag.com/issues/4/4-2/alternatives_to_the_cornish_cross.html



> I recently called Joel Martin (thus &#8220;J. M.&#8221; Hatchery) to find out more about his &#8220;Colored Range&#8221; birds, and their relationship to the Freedom Ranger. As it turns out&#8212;they are one and the same. Joel explained that Freedom Ranger was simply a catchy name, a savvy marketing ploy, on the part of the Aarons. In reality, the stock they offered were a set of* proprietary hybrid broilers* developed by Hubbard, a French corporation that provides breeder stock for producers of broiler chicks world-wide. Though Hubbard has long offered several strains of Cornish Cross for the broiler industry, they developed a number of slower growing, colored genetic strains as well, under a variety of names: Redbro, Redpac, Color Yield, etc. Many of these hybrids were bred specifically for the rigorous production standards of the Label Rouge system in France, organized to guarantee high quality, humane husbandry and slaughter, sustainability, and environmental responsibility, all within pastured and free-ranging production models. The good news for readers who have been trying to find a source of Freedom Rangers is that there are a growing number of hatcheries in this country selling broiler chicks bred to the Label Rouge model. Such broiler strains are more likely to fit into homestead production models than the unhappy Cornish Cross.



http://www.freedomrangerhatchery.com/faq



> _Are Freedom Rangers hybrids?_ Yes, they are a cross between 4 lines. The four grandparent lines have been selected for specific traits for many years and also the ability to combine these traits in the most desirable way.



For those who may not know, hybrids do not breed 'true'. You cannot reliably make the same hybrid by breeding hybrids. You need the original proprietary formula. Thats the reason I chose not to get involved with freedom rangers, I wanted a sustainable flock without buying new birds every year from the hatchery.


----------



## Our Little Farm

You are correct in their breed history (and I never questioned that, so am surprised at all the above blah), BUT as I said, they still make ideal birds for a homestead. 

That is ALL I am saying. The are great layers, good meat birds and go broody at a drop of a hat. If you want fancy birds that cost an arm and a leg, and give true, they you have to search deeply because MANY of the so called true breeds have been watered down over the years. 

A sustainable flock does not have to be a heritage one.


----------



## unregistered168043

Our Little Farm said:


> *I do not agree*. If you want great meat birds that grow fast, but have the ability to lay eggs (hens) *and go broody, to get another batch to raise, then Freedom Rangers are great.*
> If you are selling chicks, then you will get an assortment so may not be best, but for an average homesteader these are great birds.
> 
> Darntootin, have you raised them? I have.


I guess I misunderstood the part where you recommended freedom rangers for going broody and raising another batch.

Not sure what you disagreed with in my original post. Oh well.:shrug:


----------



## Guest

Darntootin said:


> Freedom rangers are a cross-breed chicken. They are not a 'true breed' meaning that they do not breed true. If you breed freedom rangers, you will not get freedom rangers. You will get an assortment of mixed chicks with unknown traits. Kind of like replanting hybrid corn.
> 
> If you plan on breeding your chickens IMO it is best to stick to true breed, heritage chickens.


I want to breed the Rangers into my flock (make my own landrace). I want to end up with large chickens that find their own food and raise their own chicks.



Our Little Farm said:


> I do not agree. If you want great meat birds that grow fast, but have the ability to lay eggs (hens) and go broody, to get another batch to raise, then Freedom Rangers are great.
> If you are selling chicks, then you will get an assortment so may not be best, but for an average homesteader these are great birds.


I'm not planning to sell chicks. I just need some eggs and a few cockerals to butcher.


----------



## Guest

Shygal said:


> http://www.meyerhatchery.com/produc...ickens&grd_prodone_filter=PRODUCT_ID = 'RRBS'
> 
> They have the same things that the Freedom Rangers say their chicks are an assortment of, Redbro, Yellow and Tricolor


This statement on the Meyer page:

*Sent separate from all other poultry minimum order of 25, 
not available for pick-up. *

makes me think they are drop-shipped for Meyer.


----------



## Our Little Farm

They are. 


I think they would be perfect for you Ladycat. I really liked them and would buy more right now if it was possible. 

I liked the roosters too. Very friendly. 

Good luck!


----------



## BobbyB

I dont think comparing cross bred chickens to hybrid corn is a fair example. 

The corn was bred to get a certain results and my understanding is each kernel can have traits from one parent or the other

There shouldnt be much difference between breeding chickens and breeding cattle.

Brangus, Braford and Santa Gertrudis cattle are all cross bred and each produces true to their breeding

Brangus are 3/8 Brahma and 5/8 Angus, Brafords are 3/8 Brahma and 5/8 Hereford and Gerts are 3/8 Brahma and 5/8 Shorthorn.

If you were to breed a white leghorn to a jersey Giant and a Rhode Island red to a White rock and then breed those offspring together you would have 1/4 each of Leghorn, Jersey Giant, RIR and White Rock. I have no idea what that cross would look like or be good for, but if you were to breed those offspring together, they would produce the same 1/4 of each grand parent breed as they are.

Not knowing what percentages of what the Freedom Rangers are, I can see no reason if you breed them back on them selves , why they wouldnt produce the same percentages in their off spring.


----------



## Our Little Farm

Their chicks are amazing!


For those that are thinking of butchering, I preferred to butcher at 9weeks for an average of a 5lb bird. Succulent, juicy and full of flavor.


----------



## unregistered168043

BobbyB said:


> If you were to breed a white leghorn to a jersey Giant and a Rhode Island red to a White rock and then breed those offspring together you would have 1/4 each of Leghorn, Jersey Giant, RIR and White Rock. I have no idea what that cross would look like or be good for, but if you were to breed those offspring together, they would produce the same 1/4 of each grand parent breed as they are.
> 
> Not knowing what percentages of what the Freedom Rangers are, I can see no reason if you breed them back on them selves , *why they wouldnt produce the same percentages in their off spring.*


*
*
Because they wouldn't inherit 1/4 of each breed proportionately. They may inherit all the broodiness of one breed and none of the egg laying or meat producing genes of the other breeds.

If you are looking for Freedom Rangers in particular, its because you are after certain traits that the breed possesses. After breeding them with each other you will not reliably obtain those traits in the offspring. That is the reason they keep the breed 'formula' proprietary. You need that particular formula to breed Freedom Rangers. If you could just breed them to each other then there would be no proprietary formula.

After one generation you are just going to have mongrel chickens with no reliably discerning characteristics. If that is OK with you, then that is fine but I don't see the point of buying freedom rangers to breed mongrels, you can mix and match any breeds or pick up cheap mixed breed birds anywhere.


----------



## BobbyB

I was looking at the Freedom Rangers, but decide to go with a batch of Red Broilers from Ideal. They are close and my family has done business with them since I was a kid.

They say I can expect 6 lb birds in 7 weeks or less. We are wanting 3-4 lb fryers so if they grow as said, I hope to have em in the freezer before 7 weeks.

Next batch I think I will grow out some Freedom Rangers for a comparison and then make the next decision based on the results between the 2. 

I figure to keep back a couple of pullets to see how they do in the egg department. Worse case scenario, I'll have a couple of bakers.


----------



## unregistered168043

ladycat said:


> I want to breed the Rangers into my flock (make my own landrace). I want to end up with large chickens that find their own food and raise their own chicks.


You will get that in the Freedom Rangers. But their offspring will not be freedom Rangers, and their characteristics cannot be counted on. You may end up with some large birds that don't find their own food well, or small birds that raise their own chicks. You just won't know and each individual bird will inherit a different proportion of the traits of the 4 birds that make up freedom rangers.

There is a reason they keep the breed formula proprietary. You cannot get cornish cross chickens to have the same traits by breeding them to other cornish cross, its a proprietary formula, and to get cornish crosses you have to buy them from a breeder who uses the formula.

I'm not saying that you cannot be happy with Freedom Rangers. But I do think that you are after the breed because it possesses certain traits ( large, free foraging, broody ). If you want a flock that has those characteristics, you will have better luck choosing a true breed, whose characteristics can be more reliably counted on in successive generations. You can then further 'tweek' your flock through selective breeding.


----------



## BobbyB

Well, I still say they will breed much more true that that, same as cattle. I did say I dont know what the percentages of what are in them, but as in cattle, if you reach the point where the genetics are stabilized where you are getting what you want.

You dont raise em so that leaves your statements suspect.

In the end they are freaking chickens. They eat, cluck,crow, poop and lay eggs. No different than a " Heritage " chicken, most of which were crossed up back in their early days. 

I am not arguing with you. I dont have the time or money to conduct a lengthy breeding experiment, so my beliefs are what I will stay with.


----------



## unregistered168043

BobbyB said:


> Well, I still say they will breed much more true that that, same as cattle. I did say I dont know what the percentages of what are in them, but as in cattle, if you reach the point where the genetics are stabilized where you are getting what you want.
> 
> You dont raise em so that leaves your statements suspect.
> 
> In the end they are freaking chickens. They eat, cluck,crow, poop and lay eggs. No different than a " Heritage " chicken, most of which were crossed up back in their early days.
> 
> I am not arguing with you. I dont have the time or money to conduct a lengthy breeding experiment, so my beliefs are what I will stay with.


OK. But my statements are not 'suspect' they are a matter of undeniable fact. Hybrids don't breed true. Sorry, thats just the way it is. It's common knowledge to anyone with a basic understanding of breeding.


----------



## BobbyB

Darntootin said:


> OK. But my statements are not 'suspect' they are a matter of undeniable fact. Hybrids don't breed true. Sorry, thats just the way it is. It's common knowledge to anyone with a basic understanding of breeding.


explain the cattle breeds I mentioned then. They breed as true as any one of the original parent breeds


----------



## Guest

BobbyB said:


> I was looking at the Freedom Rangers, but decide to go with a batch of Red Broilers from Ideal. They are close and my family has done business with them since I was a kid.


I was very disappointed with the Red Broilers and the Black Broilers from Ideal. They aren't really broilers. They're just some kind of dual purpose mix or something. 

You do NOT get a 6# bird in 7 weeks. It takes more like 6 months to get them that big, and they do not have a plump breast. You could raise Barred Rocks or New Hampshires or something and get the same results.

They do mature to a fairly large chicken eventually, it just takes them a long time to get there.


----------



## Guest

Darntootin said:


> You will get that in the Freedom Rangers. But their offspring will not be freedom Rangers, and their characteristics cannot be counted on.


I know.



Darntootin said:


> You may end up with some large birds that don't find their own food well, or small birds that raise their own chicks.


That's where selective breeding comes in.


----------



## unregistered168043

OK good luck!


----------



## unregistered168043

BobbyB said:


> explain the cattle breeds I mentioned then. They breed as true as any one of the original parent breeds


They breed true because their genetics are stabilized. Using the 'brangus' as an example the genetics are stabilized at 3/8 brahman and 5/8 angus. The cattle must have that formula in order to breed true and be registered as 'brangus'

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/brangus/


The Freedom Ranger is a proprietary formula. The formula is NOT available to the public. Why? Why would anyone create a formula and then go through the legal trouble of 'owning it'? Think about it.


----------



## Our Little Farm

Darntootin do you work for a major hatchery by any chance?


Maybe some research into the authenticity of the 'heritage' breeds bought from such places would be good. 

Ladycat, I think for what you are wanting to do, you will be very happy with the results.


----------



## BobbyB

ladycat said:


> I was very disappointed with the Red Broilers and the Black Broilers from Ideal. They aren't really broilers. They're just some kind of dual purpose mix or something.
> 
> You do NOT get a 6# bird in 7 weeks. It takes more like 6 months to get them that big, and they do not have a plump breast. You could raise Barred Rocks or New Hampshires or something and get the same results.
> 
> They do mature to a fairly large chicken eventually, it just takes them a long time to get there.


What did you feed ?


----------



## unregistered168043

Our Little Farm said:


> Darntootin do you work for a major hatchery by any chance?
> 
> 
> Maybe some research into the authenticity of the 'heritage' breeds bought from such places would be good.
> 
> Ladycat, I think for what you are wanting to do, you will be very happy with the results.


Sorry OLF, true breeds breed true. Hybrids do not. 

Ladycat, although I think you have already made up your mind, I think for what you are wanting to do, a true breed is a much, much better choice. Almost anyone with rudimentary knowledge of breeding and genetics would advise this. Pick up a book anywhere and you will read the same thing.

I hope you are happy with whatever you decide I just feel strongly that breeding hybrids for consistency in traits is poorly advised.


----------



## Guest

BobbyB said:


> What did you feed ?


Chick starter.

Other people have also had poor results.


----------



## Our Little Farm

Please do research. Those true breeds you are talking about vary greatly from one hatchery to another. 

Never said hybrids did. :shrug: Said they sounded ideal for Ladycat. She knows her stuff and I have had Freedom Rangers raise chicks, raise chicks. Great meat birds, great egg layers. 

Again, do you work for a hatchery or something, because that would explain your insistence that heritage breeds are the same wherever you buy and do not change.


----------



## Guest

Darntootin said:


> Ladycat, although I think you have already made up your mind, I think for what you are wanting to do, a true breed is a much, much better choice. *Almost anyone with rudimentary knowledge of breeding and genetics would advise this*. Pick up a book anywhere and you will read the same thing.


I know you don't know me, but anyone who does would find that really funny. 

Let me put it this way- after an hour of talking to a poultry scientist I had tracked down by phone, he was stunned to find out I wasn't a *real* poultry geneticist, or at least a grad student.


----------



## Our Little Farm

I for one did find that funny ladycat. 

Guess that was why I politely said you knew your stuff. 

OLF


----------



## BobbyB

I am guessing these breeds do not breed true then. 

Golden Laced Wyandottes originated in Wisconsin. They were produced by mating Silver Laced Wyandotte females with a cross-bred Partridge Cochin-Brown Leghorn cockerel. 

The origin of the Rhode Island Red dates to a fowl bred in the section of New England that is located between Narragansett Bay and Buzzard's Bay. The name Rhode Island Red was given the breed in honor of the state where it originated from crossing the Red Malay Game, Leghorn and Asiatic native stock. 

Rhode Island Whites originated in Rhode Island from which they took their name. They are a result of crosses of Partridge Cochins, White Wyandottes and Rose-Comb White Leghorns. 

Buckeyes are an American breed originating in Ohio with the color similar to the richly colored buckeye nut. Their blood lines include the Dark Cornish, Black Breasted Red Game, Buff Cochin and Barred Plymouth Rock. 

The Chantecler is the first breed of Canadian creation. It originated in the Province of Quebec. It is the result of efforts to obtain a fowl of vigorous and rustic temperament that could resist the climatic condition of Canada, a "general purpose fowl," a good winter layer, and especially with comb and wattles reduced to a minimum.

In the production of this breed two crosses were made in 1908, a Dark Cornish male mated to a White Leghorn female and a Rhode Island Red male mated to a White Wyandotte female. The following season, the pullets from the first Class, the Dark Cornish male and the White Leghorn female, were mated with a cockerel from the Rhode Island Red and White Wyandotte cross. Selected pullets from this last mating were then mated with a White Plymouth Rock male and the subsequent matings produced the typical fowl sought for as it is today. 

The Partridge variety originated in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. In the production of this variety four crosses were made, Partridge Wyandotte, Partridge Cochin, Dark Cornish and Rose Comb Brown Leghorn. 

The Jersey Black Giants originated in New Jersey by crossing Black Javas, Dark Brahmas and Black Langshans. In recent years, Cornish blood was introduced in some strains. 

Lamonas were originated at the United States Government Experiment Station at Beltsville, Maryland. They are the result of crosses of Silver Gray Dorking, White Plymouth Rocks and Single Comb White Leghorns. A heavy breed fowl.

General purpose fowl for meat and egg production. The skin color is yellow and the egg shells are white. 

Hollands are the offspring from previous mating of fowls imported from Holland crossed with White Leghorns, Rhode Island Reds, New Hampshires and Lamonas that were selected for desired characteristics, resulting in the breed known as the White Hollands.

During the same period, selected matings of the progeny from White Leghorns, Barred Plymouth Rocks, Australorps and Brown Leghorns were bred to produce a fowl with the same characteristics with a barred feather pattern, thus the Barred Hollands were originated.

These breeds were admitted as a standard in 1949. 

Oh yeah, all of these hybrids are listed in the ALBC Conservation Priority Heritage Chicken Breeds


----------



## Our Little Farm

BobbyB :clap:

It's amazing what folk with


> rudimentary knowledge of breeding and genetics


 know!

The place where you plan on getting them from are lovely Ladycat. VERY helpful and nice to talk to.


----------



## BobbyB

ladycat said:


> Chick starter.
> 
> Other people have also had poor results.


30% or better Broiler ration is recommended and I know from past experience that makes a huge difference. 

If there is any interest, I can post the gains when the time comes. Just to see. I am committed to this batch so all I can do is what I can do.


----------



## Our Little Farm

I'd be interested in the results too Bobby, and the grain used. 
It's always great to know what works and what does not. But then again, sometimes it's down to the chicks you receive and where you get them from.


----------



## Guest

BobbyB said:


> 30% or better Broiler ration is recommended and I know from past experience that makes a huge difference.
> 
> If there is any interest, I can post the gains when the time comes. Just to see. I am committed to this batch so all I can do is what I can do.


I'll be looking forward to seeing your posted results.

FYI really high protein can cause leg problems in fast-growing breeds.


----------



## BobbyB

ladycat said:


> I'll be looking forward to seeing your posted results.
> 
> FYI really high protein can cause leg problems in fast-growing breeds.


Thanks, but, I chose the Red Broilers because it is claimed they are not prone to leg weakness or the fluid build up. 

Back in my younger years I raised Hubbards for the county fryer show. They were the go to fryer show bird. Feeding broiler ration they would hit 4 plus lbs in in less than 6 weeks. 

One year the Houston Stock show put out the word that the broiler breed of choice for that show, Steele, had all been disqualified because of some disease that escapes me now.

So all of us raising Hubbards for the county fryer show culled thru our pens and went strictly on weight because there was a minimum pen weight. End result was some did better than others, but I sold a Red Ribbon pen for $28.

Ad that to the $110 I got at the fryer show, less $6.25 for 25 chicks and 2 bags of ration at $3.05 per for a total of $12.35 in expenses, I did pretty well for a High School Junior in 1973.

This batch of broilers is an experiment to see what it will cost to put them in the freezer. I'll try the Freedom Rangers next if if they dont do it, then I'll go with the Cornish cross. 

Wanting a true " fryer sized " bird will cut down feed time and expense. 

I guess we shall see what we shall see.


----------



## Our Little Farm

Sounds like you started young Bobby!


----------



## BobbyB

Our Little Farm said:


> Sounds like you started young Bobby!


As a kid my favorite time of the year was now when the feed store starting getting in chicks and poults. They had a big room full of triple deck brooders and they stayed stocked til mid Summer.

I could walk in the store and know if they had turkey poults because I could hear them over the chicks peeping. 

I cant remember how old I was when I raised my first batch of chicks, I just know they were some my Grandma had hatch under a hen. I was probably 8 or 9.


----------



## Our Little Farm

My children have grown up checking incubators with quail. turkey and chicken eggs, and finding hens with surprise clutches of chicks. 

We had a hen a year ago hatch 22 chicks! It was so funny to see her try and nestle down with them at night time. She would do so in the lean to where our LGD kept watch  Smart hen.


----------



## BobbyB

Two of the funniest things I have ever seen were with the older fellow that used to work on the ranch I grew up on.

Once he hatched a bunch of ducks under a hen and she would look so puzzled when they would dive in water puddles.

The other was a big batch of guineas he hatched under a hen. They were 3/4 grown and still keeping the hen in sight.She would scratch and call when she found something to eat and the whole bunch would run so hard they would send her rolling when they got there.


----------



## Laura Workman

Thought I'd stir the pot a little with regard to "crossbreds" breeding true. I've been working with Mini Lamancha goats now for nine years. The foundation stock is Lamancha and Nigerian Dwarf. With decent, not even outstanding, foundation stock, the first generation (F1) crosses routinely turn out to be some very impressive animals. Once the deck is shuffled again, though, in the F2 and later generations, it takes some very serious culling and further generations to once again approach the quality of the F1 animals. Once you're three or four generations in, having culled VERY heavily for the intervening generations, you can start to see some consistency and quality in the animals produced. In other words, they begin to "breed true." After nine years, we're only now starting to see some good quality F3 and F4 animals, because getting enough genetic diversity while maintaining quality and progressing through the generations has been extremely challenging.

I suspect this is what the Brangus, etc., breeders went through to "standardize" their breeds. I suspect it is what Ladycat will go through as well in trying to come up with her landrace. Coincidentally, it is what I'm doing with my chickens as well. :rock: I have a very nice Delaware/Faverolles/Marans roo that was a fast-growing, large boy with a good temperament. I have one of his sons, from a Blue Ameraucana hen, and a RIR/Blue Cochin cross rooster with a good temperament and a perfect crow. (I know, I know, but I LIKE a perfect crow!) My current hens are Blue Ameraucana, Black Australorp, Blue Cochin/Buff Orpington cross, Barred Rock, Silver Laced Wyandotte, and, yes, Freedom Rangers. I'm thinking I'll save eggs from the Rangers and the Ameraucanas, hatch out a bunch of eggs, raise the babies, keep the ones I like best for breeding next year, and so forth. Eventually, I'll wind up with what I'm after, just like Ladycat will, eventually. What fun!


----------



## Guest

Laura Jensen said:


> I suspect it is what Ladycat will go through as well in trying to come up with her landrace.


Exactly! You understand!




Laura Jensen said:


> Coincidentally, it is what I'm doing with my chickens as well. :rock: I have a very nice Delaware/Faverolles/Marans roo that was a fast-growing, large boy with a good temperament. I have one of his sons, from a Blue Ameraucana hen, and a RIR/Blue Cochin cross rooster with a good temperament and a perfect crow. (I know, I know, but I LIKE a perfect crow!) My current hens are Blue Ameraucana, Black Australorp, Blue Cochin/Buff Orpington cross, Barred Rock, Silver Laced Wyandotte, and, yes, Freedom Rangers. I'm thinking I'll save eggs from the Rangers and the Ameraucanas, hatch out a bunch of eggs, raise the babies, keep the ones I like best for breeding next year, and so forth. Eventually, I'll wind up with what I'm after, just like Ladycat will, eventually. What fun!


Yes, similar to my methods when I'm crossing stuff up (chickens, fancy mice, whatever).

My most very favorite hobby in the whole world for the last almost 40 years (since I discovered genetics), is to cross varieties and breeds and see what traits I can fix over the next several generations. Usually by the F3 generation you'll begin to see the promise of what you're going for.

Not worried about losing size, as someone(s) posted. Size is controlled by a number of modifiers. When you start rearranging those modifiers through crossbreeding, you'll end up with offspring both smaller and larger than the P1's. Pick breeders from the size you want (in my case, large), and in a few generations you'll consistently get individuals meeting your desired size.


----------



## GrannyCarol

The other thing about the original hybrids and hybrid vigor is that hybrid vigor is MUCH more noticeable if each parent line is highly inbred. To make those Cornish crosses they inbreed two separate breeds with certain characteristics, culling heavily for exactly what works, then the F1 hybrid is very predictable and has that hybrid vigor as well. If you are crossing individuals from two separate breeds that do not start out heavily inbred, you won't get the hybrid vigor and you won't notice as much difference in the F1 generation compared to subsequent generations. It may be also that the beef cattle are closely related breeds to start with and crossing them isn't shuffling the genetic deck so much. 

I don't know if the Freedom Rangers are a hybrid or not - from reading I thought they were a breed that breeds true, but I've never had them. Breeding your own landrace would be a fun project and, yes, it would take several generations. It takes several generations and a lot of culling to breed even a bloodline within a breed true to the point where it becomes recognizable as your own line.


----------



## Guest

GrannyCarol said:


> I don't know if the Freedom Rangers are a hybrid or not - from reading I thought they were a breed that breeds true


They are a 4-way hybrid, so I wouldn't be starting with original parent stock. But that's not a problem. They have the genes for the characteristics I want. :happy2:


----------

