# Getting out of Debt and staying that way



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I want to get out of debt and stay that way.

For me, debt has been a life long 'addiction'/way of life. I was not raised in a 'cash on the barrel head' family. We loved our plastic, we leased cars, we had 1rst and 2nd mortgages.I moved out young, and this was the model set before me, and *I CHOSE* the same route.

Now I am north of 40 and south of 50 and I (a) do NOT want to live like this anymore and (b) I DO NOT want my kids to carry this same addiction with them.

The line in the sand has been drawn.

I do have the Dave Ramsey C/D set. My dh has listened to all of them, and this week I will begin. I do have the work book that goes with them too.

Getting out of debt sounds so easy. Stop spending and pay off debt, wa la.
That's like telling me when I am 75lbs over weight "hey just stop eating and exercise".
Weight Watchers works, because it CHANGES the way you look at food. 
It's not a diet. It's not a crash course / cold turkey thing. It changes the way you think about and view food.
The easy way to lose 75lbs is to have your tummy tied, like the easy way to get rid of debt is to file bankruptcy. 
But 9 out of 10 times, because you have not changed the mind and heart, the pattern repeats.

I am curious to hear from folks who have been hooked on debt, saw the light, and changed their way of thinking and got out of debt and stayed that way. 

I want to set my kids up for success so that they are not burdened by this monster called debt........and when I croak, I don't want to saddle them with a bunch of baggage. 
I want everything to be 'free and clear' for them to do what ever they choose.
Homesteading Today is FULL of amazing folks, with amazing stories, and amazing advice and ideas. I am very thankful to be part of this group of folks!!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Laura - I so understand your issue.

I was always behind, and pay check to paycheck, but gradually worked my way up to having bills paid on time, then paid on time with a little left over to save, etc. Took years. And if felt strange.

I know those that don't have to live on the financial edge will find it strange that I say that "it felt strange" to have enough at the end of the week.

Also, I found that the ones that need the lower interest rates to pay for a major purchase (car for work for example) get the highest interest rates and that makes it more difficult to dig out from the fiscal hole. I've been through it a few times. I think I'm coming out of the hole again; but I'm having to be careful. On false step, and the bank will have charges and the snowball starts again.

The first thing, forgive yourself. And check where the money is going.

I've heard that writing it down, will help. I check all my accounts online, almost daily. And if planning on purchasing something over $20, I really check to see if everything else is going to still get paid and leave enough running money.

Also, can you get a part time second job? or make something and sell on etsy - apply that money to the debt. And don't get any more credit cards if you have one.

I hope some others will come and help with suggestions.

Comments about just not getting there - really will not help.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I was thinking about taking 30 days and saving a receipt for EVERYTHING we buy. From groceries, to a candy bar at the gas station.
Then after 30 days, divide them into 'piles'.
((Also make a spread sheet of all the bills IE: lights, gas, phone, etc))

That way I can see where every penny is going. Then I will better know where to start wacking!!

PT Job? Oy. I can't. I have no skills (other than bartending and waiting tables)) and no education. I picked up a PT 2 weeks ago, and found out that I cannot stand for more than 4 hours, and can't lift heavy trays like I used too (arthritis in my lower spine, and in my left knee.....that also has the bonus burcitis!!).

SO I am putting everything that isn't nailed down and worth something on ebay and craigs list. 2 of my 3 kids have jobs, and the 3rd on is looking!! So the 'hey mom can I have 20 bucks' has stopped.

I do forgive myself! Hi, my name is Laura, and I am addicted to debt!
That's why I love this place so much. So many others totally understand where I am at, and where I want to be, and are willing to share and not berate me!

I am really looking forward to everyone jumping in!!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Laura - can you sew reasonably well and have a working sewing machine?

back to add: we have to each find our "can" and not so much our cannot. Then we progress.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

AngieM2 said:


> Laura - can you sew reasonably well and have a working sewing machine?


BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Angie, I can't read a pattern!!
Seriously. My daughter and I went to Jo Ann fabrics last week, and I asked about lessons. 35.00 for a 2 hour class. That's just the basics.
I am game for learning!!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Raising worms and selling them to fishing tackle shops? IF a maybe, ask Shrek about it.

Sewing - check with your local community center or senior citizens center - they may have something better on the learning to sew.

Wish I were closer, I bet I could teach you enough to earn a few extra $$.


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## wes917 (Sep 26, 2011)

Gonna seem counter to your goal but spend 30$ on microsoft money program. You can manually or aitomatically have all your bank activity logged. Then you can group types of purchases to a demographic, like an autozone purchase is placed in aito repair/maintenance. Then it will create a barage of graphs showing what categories you spend the most in. having that visual really helps and will let you really see in depth where your money is going and you can adjust your budget accordingly and begin to cut back some areas and start saving.


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## wes917 (Sep 26, 2011)

AngieM2 said:


> Raising worms and selling them to fishing tackle shops? IF a maybe, ask Shrek about it.
> 
> Sewing - check with your local community center or senior citizens center - they may have something better on the learning to sew.
> 
> Wish I were closer, I bet I could teach you enough to earn a few extra $$.




Not only can you sell the worms but also their by product to gardeners, not to mention you lessen your garbage output and if you pay for a dump you'll save there also. I have been reasearching worms for awhile because I love to fish and garden.


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## jessimeredith (Sep 12, 2004)

We're still digging our way out as well Laura...we WERE good until we got back Stateside only to find that the car we had just dropped $1500 on to get it good to go needed at LEAST another $1500 dropped on it. Um, no. So we went to look at a little rice burner and came home with two vehicles. Good news is that they're both low mileage and combined (with insurance) won't run us more than I can earn with a part-time job. The problem is that it's yet ANOTHER bill.

Top it off with the fact that I had to drop from my classes which means my payments on the old student loans start up fresh...blah. Four new bills in one month after we worked super hard for a year to get down to just student loans. Yay us!

But we see that it's an issue and we're working on finding places to cut (satellite, cells, etc) while still be able to rebuild the stockpile. Now if one of these 3614907384905718345 places I put in a resume/application would give me a call there would be no worries!


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Just a thought might volunteer at a senior center if one is close bet some those folks might give free sewing lessons  Lady near us use to do lot of clothing alterations most by hand she made a ton and did it at home . 

Me last candy bar i looked at i ask if they had a layaway plan :smack We take water when we go shopping .If we do go to a cheep eat out place unless a drink is included we order water .

We got a cheep cell phone, magic jack home phone, no cable tv,and older cars . No credit cards . Reason we got magic jack was our phone bill went up $3.00 two mounts in a row and the wife said whoa Ma Bell 

I figure everything in my head by the year as the older i get faster time fly's so that $36.00 more bucks plus the $480.00 so we got $516.00 more a year .So that is $43.00 a month still in our pocket .

At one time our house had 11 leaks when it came a heavy dew  And some ask when we were going to fix it ,I said when the house is paid for and we have roof money in hand . And we didn't drown till we finely got it done .

As my son says i work to live not live to work .Some say we have took cheep to far but they are the ones getting up at 5 in the morning and hunting overtime to pay for their car to go to work :shrug:

So good luck i'm pulling for you :hobbyhors


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I am really good with money --but I have helped people for years.

number one why wait 30 days spending as you have to find out where it goes.
instead 
Pay the min on all of your debt (oh but that is a no no)
BUT any money left over is now put in cash.
Get a change jar --desplay it proudly
Now, you know what your driving needs cost (or at least close) to that amount
Put that in an envelope 
Put the rest in an envelope write the amount on the envelope and if it has a clasp great as it will need to be opened often

Next check your pantry and your garden and or livestock for daily food --Freezer too. Check your feed for livestock too.
Make a food budget out of that. Try not to buy food out of need. We are homesteaders right. If you have chickens and they are laying or goats and they are milking plan to use it daily.

each time shop with that cash envelope 
write on it every penny (carry a change purse--pennies count)
Put reciepts for purchases in the envelope. You have a system now.

get a list going 
Do you need feed yes or no add it if needed to the list (note when shopping look at sub or sales items remember that you need to get the best bang for you pennies so it might be worth it to grab a bag extro or two if there is a great savings but DO NOT if it will not save you money in the next 60 days. Be tough with yourself.

food shopping 
do not waste gas driving around looking at stores Use the internet buy only what you need to balance out what you have but gather a few of LOST LEADERS that YOU WILL use in the next 60 days. 

Now half way thur the month look to the future 
How are you doing. Any crazy stuff happening that will have to be paid for or have a cost to you in the next 30 days. (insurance or child's B'd)

Pat yourself on the back if you have a heck of alot of money in the clasp closing Look at what is written on the envelope. 

With that money if you do not have any or a start of a safety net it's going to be your seed money for it. Put 10 to 25 percent into an envelope (intrest rates are saving is not going to be missed while you keep it in cash)

The rest will be added to the principal of the debt that has the hightest intrest or the closest one that can be paid off the quickest. Now you do not pay this out till the new month begins --Just in case something happens between the 2nd week and the beginning of the next month but seeing what can happen tends to make people motivated. 

When the next months starts repeat the pattern but add your extra money to the debt of your choice.

Now when it comes to the grocery list add a treat to all do it for cheap--maybe ice cream or something to reward that works with you all. 

IT can be done.


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## wormlady (Oct 8, 2004)

Laura Zone 5 - Good for you! I don't know if you frequent the tightwad tips section over on countryside families here - but between that and the tightwad tip archives sub forum at the top of the page you will get an undergrad degree in careful spending/shopping.

You can do this! Seeing 'how low' I can go in spending has become a game to me - never pay full price for anything. Instead of feeling deprived, I feel challenged.

Perhaps you could babysit or do some caregiving or light housekeeping to earn some extra $? I give piano lessons - I'm not a great pianist, but I'm good with kids and can at least get beginners up to an intermediate stage before I turn them over to a more accomplished teacher.

The next best thing to saving money is to not spend it in the first place. Stay out of stores. When you must shop, shop with a list buying only things that are on sale. Make do, barter, do without. Read Amy Dacyzyn's Tightwad Gazettes (probably available at your local library).

And (warning religious content - but I notice you have a Bible verse in your signature), read through the book of Proverbs. I recently taught a frugal living class at our local women's shelter based on the book of Proverbs. I found 99 verses (give or take) that referred to money - lots of practical advice that breaks down into three basic categories - Be Good, Be Wise, Be Diligent.

I noticed the other day that my large size shampoo bottle which I started using several months ago is still half full. I thank GOD for that - the multiplying of the loaves and fishes with a twist. 

I am looking forward to seeing what other ideas will be contributed here!

Also... there are some personal finance blogs that have good advice - I frequently check The Simple Dollar and Surviving and Thriving.


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## stamphappy (Jul 29, 2010)

wes917 said:


> Not only can you sell the worms but also their by product to gardeners, not to mention you lessen your garbage output and if you pay for a dump you'll save there also. I have been reasearching worms for awhile because I love to fish and garden.


Was just at Ace Hardware and they are selling one cubic yard of worm castings (poop) for $8.69.


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## jamala (May 4, 2007)

Good for you. We have had way more month than money here for the last year and my credit card debt has grown. I just had a cut up party for them, I am getting out of debt and staying out. I have done it before 8 years ago and loved the freedom but then life happened and oh my it has been hard. I followed Dave Ramseys plan back then and it worked. My son has to have 5 wisdom teeth removed by an oral surgeon this summer ( yes you read that right he has an extra one--lucky him) We are working to come up with the money for that but its not easy. I am keeping my care credit card just to use for medical/dental but I hope to not have to use it once I get our emergency fund up and going.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

NEVER buy a candy bar at a gas station convenience store. I have not been inside one in probably ten years. There is nothing you "need right now" in there. Keep a bag of granola or trail mix in your purse for hungry emergencies.. 
Losing weight and saving money all benefit from a daily log...for weight loss, log what you eat and keep track of your calories. For the $$..write down every penny you spend, and come up with ways to make a few bucks. we live a half mile from a state park with a campground...my boys sell nightcrawlers, stacks of split firewood and veggies in season at a small stand in front of our house all summer long. My neighbor sells baskets of blueberries.


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

I've been in debt a couple times but am now "basically" debt free. We have a no-interest balance at the hospital and one at the tire shop. I have the cash to lay them both, but since there is no interest I've decided to wait although it would be flirting with debt according to Ramsey. 

We also recently had a car rebuilt using all cash and have $3K in cash sitting in the bank. It's a good feeling to know that it's there for an emergency, but unfortunately the emergency right now is not having enough money after I lost my second job.

Anyway, you can do it and it is a worthwhile pursuit.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Good luck. It can be tough. We almost have my truck paid off and have 1 credit card left. Then we will just have the house, camper, utilities and the kids school. $2200 left on my truck! It's so exciting!


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

I started about a year and half ago paying off our credit cards. I had a pretty good stockpile so it was easy to stay out of the stores. Anything that had a high interest rate i moved it to a low interest rate(the highest balance i had was 2500.00, which also had the highest interest rate). I got a 1.99 % interest rate for that for 18 months, then I started to pay off the rest of the cards starting with the lowest balance, then I just snowballed them like DR suggest. For me paying the lowest balance first seemed more like an accomplishment rather than paying the higher interest first. I got all the credit cards paid in less than a year.

At one point I started getting nervous because at the end of the month I had extra money in the checking account and I was always going thru and rechecking to make sure I didn't miss paying a bill. Then I finally realized this was xtra money from not paying interest and not having a credit card balance. I didn't tear up my cards because getting rid of them can downgrade your credit score. Occasionally I will put a 20.00 charge on one of my cards just to keep it open, but I will pay it off as soon as the balance shows up online. So it is paid off before the statement ever hits the mail.

We are now at the point that I pay our living expense(i.e. electric, insurance etc at least 2 to 3 weeks early)and still have a considerable balance left over in out checking account. Our house will be paid off hopefully in July~"God willing and the creek done rise"..lol Then all we will have is my car and our new John Deere which we also plan to pay off in July.

I have several money budgeting software including DR and YNab, but I have found for me just tracking monthly expenses on an Excel worksheets works better for me. 

Wishing you good vibes to become debt free~


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

When it comes to grocery shopping......
Family of 5. Dh, me, 21, 20(boy),18.
20yo is STILL growing and eats like it is his job. Also working out this summer to put on some muscle.

I do use coupon's. Only on things I buy anyway AND they have to be on sale.
I sit down on Sunday's and make a menu for the week. 
This weeks menu:
Monday: Home made pizza
Tuesday: Lemon Pepper Fett / veggies / bread
Wed: Burgers/ff /fruit
Thurs: Jerk Chicken/rice/ veggies
Friday: (some sort of salad)
Sat: Pasta and meatsauce / bread / salad
Sun: Fried Chx / Mash potatoes/ corn on cob.

Ok, my weeks worth of meals was based on the sales flyer at the store. I look at what's on sale, then make a menu around it. 
When it's on oober sale I buy extra and put it in my 'pantry' (IE storage everyone calls my personal grocery store).

My biggest expense is meat and fresh produce.

I do not buy pre-packaged meals. I do not buy frozen meals.
I do not buy anything that is cooked in a microwave.
I will not buy anything with MSG's / HFCS / Red Dye / Artificial Sweetener.

I was talking to dh last night about buying a 1/2 cow and 1/2 hog and processing it the way we would use it.......if that would save money? 
I could justify spending the big chunk of money in Aug, if it saved me a chunk of money all year AND AND the big bonus is that I know where my food came from!! Piece of mind, is priceless.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

I use Mint.com to track all my expenses. It works great, is free, and provides a weekly "spending profile" that tells me what I have spent. Also sets up goals and targets and sends reminders on retirement, vacation, etc. goals.

You associate the program with your credit card and it downloads your purchases, you categorize them once, and from then on the program recognizes "gas", food, etc.

I have used this program ever since it came out and have had NO PROBLEMS with it and think it is a good tool to track spending


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

My tips on saving money.

1. Stay out of stores. Less trips means less "extra". It works every time it's tried. If you don't go to a store you can't spend money.

2. Pay on time for the debts you have. Never be late. One late charge can double the actual interest paid on a loan.

3. Live an 85% lifestyle. So if you make 500 a week. Never spend more than 470 total. If you do Murphy's law states you will have a crisis.

4. Back to shopping. 

Actually look at the price per oz., Don't just buy bulk. Sometimes the small one is cheaper. This is almost always true with MAYO. :smack

Buy in season.

Buy good shoes, clothes and outerwear. They last many times longer than the cheap ones. If you buy jeans at LL Bean they are 80 bucks. But they have a life time warranty so if they ever wear out return them for a new pair. Not so with the 20 dollar pair from wally world.

5. Give yourself a break. It took time to get to where you are. It will take time to get where you need to be.


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## Cindy in NY (May 10, 2002)

About 20 years ago, DH and I had about $30,000 in school loans and credit card debt. It was the early 90's and everyone was spending and racking up debt. When we tried to get a tiny mortgage (less then $60,000), we had problems because our debt to income ratio was so out of whack. That was our wake-up call!

I went to the library and got out several books on debt reduction but the one that really worked was *"Your Money or Your Life"*. It will change the way you look at money and your relationship with it. We used their advice and used a paper spreadsheet to chart out what we owed, what the interest rate was, and what the minimum payment was. A lot of folks will tell you to pay off the smallest balance first so you can get that emotional high. But paying off the debt with the highest interest rate first is the best thing you can do for your financial health! Throw every penny you can at it! When that one is paid off, snowball that payment down to the one with the next highest interest rate. It took us a few years but we got that debt to zero! I still have the spread sheets that I charted out our debt "recovery".

The other best piece of advice I can offer is to be happy with what you have! There's always something out there that someone will say is better and nicer but you have to think about how much work and time it's going to take to pay for it. 

The mortgage on our home we bought 13 years ago will be paid off in less than 4 years (paying extra on principal every month). This will be a year before DH hopes to retire. We have two cars that have been paid off a long time - one is 16 years old and the other is 12 years old. We have no debt other than the mortgage and we have a good sized retirement account.

BTW, when we applied for the mortgage on the home we own now, our debt to income ratio was so much better that we were offered $250,000! We didn't need a house that big or a debt that huge so we only got the size house we needed!


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

The first thing I would advise you to do is get your emergency fund setup. At least a 1000.00 for those wonderful things that can pop up and wreak havoc with the budget. 

We use DR's plan and I liked paying off the smallest to largest, there is a quick victory and sense of accomplishment that keeps you going. You can do it!


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

I never knew where the money went so...I wrote down EVERYTHING we spent money...down to the penny....at the end of 3 months-it was ridiculous all the "small" items that added up big time.As an o/o of trucks I finally grasped the idea-it's a game of pennies-once you control those-$$$$ add up...


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## mitchell3006 (Apr 1, 2010)

We are getting along fairly well clearing our debt. My wife and I have put forth a concerted effort to retire all debt but our mortgage. We have 3 debts dying over the next month that will free up over $800 in working capital monthly to put toward other debts or our prepping. 
We found that writing down everything helped. I prefer pen and paper to the computer. Just helps me think through it better. The biggest thing is to get on a budget so that you can track your money. You need to see where your money is going, every dime of it. You will begin to see trends and points where you can save. The candy bar at the curb market is an unneccessary frill. You have to become more frugal. Cook at home instead of eating out. Learn to eat left-overs.
Good luck and don't get discouraged. It took time to get into trouble , and it takes time to get out.

Mark


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Check out the frugal thread on the CF forum. lots of good tips there every month.

The first step is getting your mindset firmly in place. Don't feel deprived as in, "I can't afford it", rather remember it is a conscious choice to live below your means. Nothing to be ashamed of. No need to get on a soapbox about it to your family and friends, either, it's just the way you have chosen to live in order to have long term security. 

Get ahold of the Tightwad Gazette books, lots of good practical tips as well as cementing the frugal mindset and lifestyle.

One suggestion I would make is do the grocery shopping every two weeks instead of every week, and work in one meatless meal a week.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

zant said:


> I never knew where the money went so...I wrote down EVERYTHING we spent money...down to the penny....at the end of 3 months-it was ridiculous all the "small" items that added up big time.As an o/o of trucks I finally grasped the idea-it's a game of pennies-once you control those-$$$$ add up...


Yep watch the penny's the dollars will take care of their self :hobbyhors


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I want to get out of debt and stay that way.
> 
> For me, debt has been a life long 'addiction'/way of life. I was not raised in a 'cash on the barrel head' family. We loved our plastic, we leased cars, we had 1rst and 2nd mortgages.I moved out young, and this was the model set before me, and *I CHOSE* the same route.
> 
> ...


Dave Ramsey got out of debt by filing a sizable bankruptcy.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

Lots of good advice already. One thing I think is important, but under discussed is to be realistic with yourself. Some people can live on a shoestring and be perfectly happy, others not so much. If you're in the not so much camp, there's nothing to be ashamed of and you should plan accordingly. If you deprive yourself of everything you're more likely to fall off the budget bandwagon and make "binge" purchases, just as you are more likely to binge if you put yourself on a super strict diet. You feel deprived and ultimately rebel. So if you have a couple guilty pleasures that truly make you happy, work them into your budget. Just be honest with yourself about what truly makes you happy. We spend money on things that give us fleeting joy way too often, if something only makes you happy for a few minutes or hours, is it worth spending your money on vs something that gives you lasting joy?


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

A penny saved is a penny earned. I'd like to revise this saying and say that a penny saved is 3 pennies earned. It costs quite a bit to earn a penny now-a-days. There have been several times in my life when I put a pen to paper and figured all my expenses involved with working and realized I was spending more than I was making.

Laura put them boys to work fishing! When I went through 6 months of no income because my husband had hip replacement surgery, I put the kids to 'work' fishing to help supplement meals. Take a lesson from Mexican housewives and make beans and rice often. Well seasoned beans(try olive oil, garlic, onions and some dried spices), rice, fresh salsa, a couple of eggs and tortillas is a fine meal by anyone's standards. Lessen the amount of meat and you'll dramatically lower your grocery bill. Mexican women use very thin cuts of meat to make it go further also.

Never ever ever ever, never ever pay interest! Poor people pay interest, rich people earn interest. It almost makes me feel guilty that a large portion of my income is made up of the bad decisions of others....I earn interest.

Let your vehicle shade a portion of your driveway. A vehicle is my biggest expense. Don't drive unless you are forced to.

Always take a jug of water or tea and snacks with you. You will be amazed at how much money you spend on snacks and drinks in a months time. For example if you buy a bottle of soda at a convenience store once a day(many folks buy several in a day) it is going to cost around $1.50. Multiply that by 30 days and you've spent $45. If you have kids that amount takes a sharp upswing really quickly.

Many people are pretty good at nailing down the regular monthly bills and they are even pretty good at couponing and buying on sale at the grocery store. The big money wasters are going out to eat and snacking on the run. I still do these things, but I know I am wasting money when I do it.


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## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

seems like most have said it all. I too was on the paycheck to paycheck rollercoaster with no savings... took me 3 years of buying ONLY ESSENTIALs (gas and food) and not much else. The good news is, that I then saved and bought a house and have some in the bank for a rainy day. It is a GREAT feeling. It's even more conforting to know that a short term "problem" will not be the end of the world.

The only thing I'd add is my shopping trick. We are all prone to adding things to our carts whether it's at wally world, the supermarket or the clothing store. I'm now in the habit of stopping before I get online to pay and reviewing what is in my cart. I ask myself, Do I really need this? (I wanted it because I put it in the cart). I land up taking stuff out of the cart every time.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

TxMex said:


> .
> 
> Laura put them boys to work fishing! When I went through 6 months of no income because my husband had hip replacement surgery, I put the kids to 'work' fishing to help supplement meals.


YES!! They can help with gardening, and old enough to be paying rent/board. I have an adult son who no longer lives with us (24) and he still comes over to assist with the garden chores. Also, his job during high school and college was at a restaurant...he was able to bring home lots of food (misordered pizzas, extra tray of chicken francaise from a catered event, half a wedding cake, etc...one summer we had enough chicken fran bagged up and fraozen to last us all winter. It was all made inhouse, and delicious)


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## hsmom2four (Oct 13, 2008)

You can do it! In order to get out of debt you have to stop using credit and cut expenses or increase cash flow or both. Since you said that a job is out of the question then you have to find a way to cut expenses to the bare bones and sell anything of value then put it all to paying down the debt. 

One of the best days of my life was going into a car dealership and writing out a personal check for a new-to-me car! We used to be drowning in debt with people calling day and night wanting money for bills I could't pay. In 2005 we said no more and haven't looked back since. Wiped out all the debt except the house payment by 2007 Now its paid for in cash or we don't buy it.


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## CJ (May 10, 2002)

It's very simple to get out of debt. What is HARD is to break your spending habits. Once you are ready to commit, simply STOP spending. SELL the things you don't need... and you don't need much.

I go crazy watching my broke friends. They can't pay their taxes, but have money for manicures, hair cuts and dye jobs, satellite tv, cell phones... SO much that isn't necessary.

Being debt free is a wonderful, wonderful thing. If you can't pay cash, then don't buy it. BE WILLING TO MAKE THE SACRIFICES. Most are not.


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## Billie in MO (Jun 9, 2002)

Budget, budget, budget (know what all your fixed expenses are)

A year or so before Bill and I moved from CO to here we took a 10 week financial course by Crown Financial Ministries. It is a biblical based course on money matters. There are 2,350 Bible verses related to money, more than any other subject in the Bible. It gives you goals and destinations to accomplish based on what the Bible says. You get a study manual and a practical application book. It covers the subjects of God's Part/Our Part, Debt, Counsel, Honesty, Giving, Work, Investing, Perspective, Eternity and gives you financial principles to follow.

It helped us so much that when we did move to MO, we were able to manage a mortgage in CO, rent in MO and no job for Bill for almost a year. There were no frills or extras but our needs were met until a job was found.

Obviously, it is not for everyone. Bill's sister took the course with us but hasn't followed thru and still struggles. We still refer to our books all the time. She doesn't. Bill's brother and his wife asked us to be their coach but since we no longer live there it wasn't practical. Instead we found them a local person affiliated with Crown but they never followed thru. I know why but that is a whole 'nuther subject!

Nothing will work unless you want it to. Follow thru and budget, budget, budget.


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## Felicity (Dec 19, 2010)

Hi Laura,
Have you had a chance to check out the website
I pm'd you about?

I think it may be exactly what you are looking for....

Good luck to you!


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

Dave Ramsey also went back and paid off all the creditors from that bankruptcy.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/ge...ies/443189-free-credit-score.html#post5898157

This has Creditkarma listed as a good source a few times.
I signed up tonight to see if I can get better.


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## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

http://www.mint.com is awesome. We use an older version of Quicken. You don't need the latest and greatest version of it to work for your needs. Getting everything down and in order so you can see where it's all going and what you need to work on most is the most important.

Dave Ramsey's program is excellent.


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## wormlady (Oct 8, 2004)

Just a few more thoughts. Websites such as Amazon 'remember' your credit card number which makes it soooooo convenient to shop. I believe you can disable this feature which will give you time to think about your purchase. And not purchase it. 

Also...freeze your credit card. Consider using a debit card instead.

Hope you are inspired by all the tips - I know I am!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

CJ said:


> It's very simple to get out of debt. *What is HARD is to break your spending habits. Once you are ready to commit, simply STOP spending. SELL the things you don't need... and you don't need much.*
> 
> I go crazy watching my broke friends. They can't pay their taxes, but have money for manicures, hair cuts and dye jobs, satellite tv, cell phones... SO much that isn't necessary.
> 
> Being debt free is a wonderful, wonderful thing. If you can't pay cash, then don't buy it. BE WILLING TO MAKE THE SACRIFICES. Most are not.


THAT is the key to all this.
Changing the way I 'think' and act towards money.
It sounds like the "Dave Ramsey" thing works well for folks.....




Billie in MO said:


> Budget, budget, budget (know what all your fixed expenses are)
> 
> A year or so before Bill and I moved from CO to here we took a 10 week financial course by Crown Financial Ministries. It is a biblical based course on money matters. There are 2,350 Bible verses related to money, more than any other subject in the Bible. It gives you goals and destinations to accomplish based on what the Bible says. You get a study manual and a practical application book. It covers the subjects of God's Part/Our Part, Debt, Counsel, Honesty, Giving, Work, Investing, Perspective, Eternity and gives you financial principles to follow.
> 
> *Nothing will work unless you want it to. Follow thru and budget, budget, budget*.


Amen. And I want it too. The budget part will be hard to put together, but once I get it together......it will be easier to follow.



Felicity said:


> Hi Laura,
> Have you had a chance to check out the website
> I pm'd you about?
> 
> ...


I didn't get a PM? Can you please resend the website?
Thanks!!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

*For those of you who have 'crossed over from the darkside'......been deep in the debt hole / spending addiction; How did you break it?

*Did you wake up one day and say "huh, this is dumb" and just change?
*Did you wean yourselves off the spending 'high' by going from mall shopping to discount department store shopping to good will / tag sale shopping? 
OR did you just go cold turkey?

*Was your spouse 100% on board with you?
*What did you do when he/she got discouraged or stressed about it (new way of spending / not spending money)?
*IF your spouse was NOT on board, how did you do it without them?

*Living so far out in the country, do you think a yard sale is a waste of a day, or a good idea?
*Other than craigs list and big bright signs, how would I advertise?


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## wes917 (Sep 26, 2011)

wormlady said:


> Just a few more thoughts. Websites such as Amazon 'remember' your credit card number which makes it soooooo convenient to shop. I believe you can disable this feature which will give you time to think about your purchase. And not purchase it.
> 
> Also...freeze your credit card. Consider using a debit card instead.
> 
> Hope you are inspired by all the tips - I know I am!



I know its inspired me to reexamin our spending. We have become somewhat laxed as our earnings have increased with raises etc and with us hoping to move in the not so distant future this thread was a good reminder to do the things I used to. An example is I called and got my dish bill lowered, and my phone/internet bill lowered. I also cancelled our cell phone insurance (not sure how we even got signed up for it). These three things are saving us 55 a month. I plan on getting some new insurance quotes also as we've had tbe same auto/home ins since we bought our home six years ago. Hoping when all said and done hoping to "find" an extra 100 a month. That and I'm set to recieve a raise in july, and we plan on socking half towards our hopeful moving fund and the other half towards paying off one of our auto loans as its the highest interest rate we have.


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## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> *For those of you who have 'crossed over from the darkside'......been deep in the debt hole / spending addiction; How did you break it?


I have never had a spending or shopping addiction. Actually when I first started out I didn't have any money to even manage. During my divorce I found out a lot of things, like how my husband opened accounts in my name. So I was in debt thousands of dollars that I never knew about, plus what I did know about which was bad enough. Swore that would never happen again!

What I did was work my butt off, not buy anything that wasn't ABSOLUTELY necessary, found every dented can, salvation army, goodwill, reclaimed building materials places, went to garage sales...etc. 

I've never understood shopping for the sake of shopping or for the "thrill" of it but I have watched what it does to people's lives and that's too bad.

I think if you live out of town a garage sale is not a waste of a day unless you do not advertise it. Find out if there is a radio station or a newspaper that advertises them for free or really cheap. We have a radio station here that will announce your garage sale once a day for a week prior to the sale. The garage salers here RELIGIOUSLY listen at that time of day and write it all down.

And you need signs....simple ones, easy to read. Just "BIG SALE" and an arrow works really well. In town flyers with directions and a phone number work really well too...use those bulletin boards to your advantage. The best colors in advertising seem to be yellow and red. Yellow tag board with huge red letters.

A tip I have for you on your extra income stuff.....don't spend that money on bills now....spend them on future bills. If you can manage to do that, in a few months you will have the best feeling in the world. What I mean is this....if, say, your vehicle insurance premiums come up in Feb. figure out how much it is, and make that goal 1...to meet those premiums...then do not spend that money. When it comes time to make those payments, you can giggle with glee that you didn't have to agonise in dec and jan about those payments coming up. You can do yourself one step better in planning like that if you can manage to save up not just one yearly or 6 month premium...but two...make that your second goal. Don't think of the money in the bank that you are saving as savings...think of it as already spent...already allocated.

Then tackle the next big bill of the future. Once you get something like that set up, then actually honing down the monthly bills and squaring away and moderating erratic impulse spending...it will all fall into place.

Just one way to do it.


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## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

An addition to what I was saying. Most people who get into financial distress will agree...it's hard to keep up sometimes but it is MUCH WORSE to have to try to catch up. So my example I gave earlier is actually setting yourself up to be AHEAD. Sometimes, if you first break up your financial concerns into smaller tasks and then behave yourself LOL and not spend it on what it is intended for...you will find yourself ontop and possibly ahead before you know it.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> I was talking to dh last night about buying a 1/2 cow and 1/2 hog and processing it the way we would use it.......if that would save money?
> I could justify spending the big chunk of money in Aug, if it saved me a chunk of money all year AND AND the big bonus is that I know where my food came from!! Piece of mind, is priceles.



This is what we do every year. It is a lot to come up with at once, but our beef ended up costing us less than $3.00 per pound. We got t-bones, sirloin steaks, ribeyes, roasts, burger, cubed steaks, & some other cuts. It gives you a lot more to work with when planning a menu. You don't have to base your meals on just a couple of different meats. I could never buy sirloin or t-bones at the store, but we enjoy them now by getting a half of a beef. Same with pork. We get a whole pork & end up with a lot of nice cuts of meat. I raise & butcher our own chickens. I sell enough of them to pay for the chickens & the feed. That means I am basically getting mine for free, just my time in butchering them. I also raise rabbits for meat & goats for milk. Have chickens for eggs.

I have fruit trees, berries, & a huge garden. I sell anything that is extra. 

We are in the same boat as you. 2 years of my husband working less than 30 hours per week set us way behind. I am also trying to pay off some cc debt & get ahead. April is a month that is always hard on us as van insurance & house insurance is due. I was able to skip going to the store for almost 3 weeks because I have a well stocked pantry & freezer.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

I've been out of debt for 15 years. The mortgage is the only debt and that will be paid off this year.
Here are my rules:
Never finance a car.
Always remember your car insurance will come due.
Never use a credit card without paying it off the next day with money already in the bank.
Look at what you are buying, will it look like a rummage sale item worth $2 in 6 months? If this is true, then buy it at a rummage sale for $2.
Make a list of what you need, if you still need it a week/month/year later, then buy it, if you have the money.
Shopping is not a hobby. 
Saving money is a hobby and it gives you security.

And for raising children, this has served me well. Teach them that every commercial on tv (if you have one), is advertising. Advertising is how companies want your money and they want it badly. Ask the children, do you want to give them your money, or do you want to keep it? Give it to them, or keep it, it's your choice. I raised two savers this way.
Just make them aware of what advertising is all about so they can make good choices for themselves.

The battle is only partially more jobs and more money, the other half of the battle is learning how to spend or not spend.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

that creditkarma site is good.

it has already helped me, may have found a place to refinance my car and save $50 a month.

I'm looking at the paperwork.

And I need to print out my credit score and challenge a few things. As I found out yesterday I have a lein but I paid off the bill 2 years ago.

Laura - you may want to print out at least one copy of your credit report and see if accurate or if something you can challenge. May set you up for better finances in the long run.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I want to get out of debt and stay that way.
> 
> For me, debt has been a life long 'addiction'/way of life. I was not raised in a 'cash on the barrel head' family. We loved our plastic, we leased cars, we had 1rst and 2nd mortgages.I moved out young, and this was the model set before me, and *I CHOSE* the same route.
> 
> ...


It's pretty simple.. You just have to train yourself to see what things are things you want, and what things you truly need.

Only buy what you need until your debt free, then think about things you want and save up for em.

I don't need a TV, I don't need a new car, I don't need to eat out, those are all wants. I need car insurance, I need my house etc..

If it's something you want that bad, it's worth saving up for and paying cash. If it's not worth that effort, how bad do you really want it?

Pretty much what Ramsey is saying as well.

I should be debt free with my land and house paid off by summers end.


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

I have used the budget system that my parents used for all of our married life. This is for a personal budget and is based on net income. You decide on percentages to figure out what you can afford. 35% for housing, 15% for transportation, 15% for debt, 10% for savings and 25% for all the rest including groceries, clothes, daycare, pets, sports and entertainment. If you stay within these rules it really makes it easy to make decisions. If your take home pay is $3000 and 15% of that is $450 you know that is all that you have to buy, insure and service a vehicle. 

In the beginning we had no debt so we saved 10% more (for a down payment on a homestead) and added 5% to our life budget. When you have kids and daycare then the life budget has to grow. We stopped saving the extra 10% - took 5% of that for more life expenses and 5% for education savings. 

Of course nothing goes as planned so eventually because of an injury and unemployment we ended up in debt so for a few years were not saving anything just trying to get out of debt.

Now that we are getting older with no debt we save 25% of our income and once the mortgage is paid we will save more but also spend a little more on us.


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

We only use a credit card for convenience and pay it off just as soon as we put something on it. This does not cost us anything and we get rewards points. I heard on the news that the banks may change this because a lot of people are doing the same and they are not earning interest on us. They want to start charging for every transaction like with a debit card.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

pumpkin said:


> We only use a credit card for convenience and pay it off just as soon as we put something on it. This does not cost us anything and we get rewards points. I heard on the news that the banks may change this because a lot of people are doing the same and they are not earning interest on us. They want to start charging for every transaction like with a debit card.


They already do charge for every transaction. They charge the merchant for every single one. This is now built into the prices of everything you buy by almost all merchants, so the merchant actually makes a small % more profit if you use cash.


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

Txrider said:


> They already do charge for every transaction. They charge the merchant for every single one. This is now built into the prices of everything you buy by almost all merchants, so the merchant actually makes a small % more profit if you use cash.


And the rewards cards cost the storekeepers a larger percentage. But the talk I heard on the news was about charging the card holder for each transaction. 50 cents for every one. So if in a month you make 30 charges that would be $15. If this happens we will just use cash.


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## wormlady (Oct 8, 2004)

Laura Zone 5, one more idea to 'find' money: a few years ago we shopped around for comparison quotes for our auto, home and health insurance. We switched companies and got better coverage for a savings of at least $200 a year!


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## Billie in MO (Jun 9, 2002)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> *For those of you who have 'crossed over from the darkside'......been deep in the debt hole / spending addiction; How did you break it?
> 
> *Did you wake up one day and say "huh, this is dumb" and just change?
> *Did you wean yourselves off the spending 'high' by going from mall shopping to discount department store shopping to good will / tag sale shopping?
> ...


Bill and I are on the same page for saving so I can't help there.

I still shop but now I shop at thrift stores and have found so many things for next to nothing. If I go on certain days they have different sales (example: 50% off clothes on a Wed, 50% off any thing with a red/yellow tag, 15-25% off with a military ID card or senior citizen day). I don't always make the days because I live so far away and when I do go it is an all day affair. I usually keep a small list in my purse of things I am looking for so as not to be side tracked. 

I still see yard sale signs far out of town. Can't hurt to try. Try putting flyers up at the library or the bank or any place in town that will let you. That's where I always see the flyers. We have several small local & county papers that advertise. Sometimes the small towns here will have a yard sale at the park and everyone goes there.

To help each spouse with the stress of spending/not spending you can build into the budget a small amount of discretionary money for each person. What ever you both can agree on/be comfortable with. Then that money is yours to spend however you want with out having to account to the other person.

Since I do not work my hobby of "fabric" has to be in the budget along with other things in the same category. I keep my budget amounts wrote down in my purse to help me. Also I have a metal cylinder quarter bank that belonged to my grandfather. I put all my quarters in that and when it is full I get to cash it in and that money can go strictly to my fabric buying.

Do you have any hobbies that you might be able to ramp up at bit to make money? I quilt small baby blankets and had been mailing quite a few to family members with new babies. The lady at the post office would always want to see them before we closed the envelope. Her daughter needed one for a gift and asked me if I would sell one. SURE I WOULD!!!!

Bill's hobby is sculpting in stone. This past weekend we did an art/crafts show in the town we live near. I usually sell enough of my stuff to make the booth fee (it is very low) but this time he sold 2 small sculptures while he was still working on them!

Try to think out side of the box and make it a game to see how much you can do with less.

Oh, something else to consider. We recently changed insurance companies (long story) but the agent figured it both ways with Bill as primary and me as the primary. It was cheaper by over several hundred dollars for me to be the primary so that is what we did.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

It is very hard if your spouse isn't on the same page as you are. "How can two walk together unless they be agreed?" I would suggest talking to your husband to see where his heart is, and what point of agreement can be reached. Then pray on that point of agreement, write it down, and run with that vision. You know, revival has to come from the pulpit to the pew. It cannot go the other way because it is out of order. God does things in order. The husband is the head of the house, so he must be in agreement, or it won't happen. It's just the order of things even when the husband is less mature than the wife.
Perhaps you and dh can agree to buy up a three month supply of food, and only eat out once a week? Perhaps he can agree to cut premium channels, but isn't willing to cut other "extravagances". It's just important to reach some point of agreement, and believe for that, and work on that. I know it might not be as much as you want. But you do have to agree on something, and work as a team towards that goal for God to bless it.
There are many things in life that my husband is not willing to give up. He isn't willing to save over $100-$200 a week. He is not willing to give up having at least one nice meal out a week. He isn't willing to go without a "nice" car or truck. He isn't willing to give up the 5 cell phone lines in the house. So we have to meet in the middle and reach a point of agreement. 
A three fold cord is not easily broken. That means when my husband and I can reach a point of agreement, then pray for that point, and have God join into that covenant, it will come to pass. Believe me, it is not as tight as I would like it. But it is where he is at, and what he is able to do at this point. So we reach an agreement somewhere. You just have to be able to meet in the middle, wherever he can, so you can walk together. Because if there is no agreement you cannot. That is just scripture, "how can two walk together unless they be agreed". And we know a house divided cannot stand. So find a point of agreement somewhere. They pray over it because if any two agree as touching any one thing on earth it shall be done for them. Then write that vision down, and run with it. After you reach some small goals in your vision that he can live with and agree to, he will be more ready to move on to bigger goals.


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## cider (Nov 13, 2004)

I'll cast another vote for Dave Ramsey and mint.com.
Last night I found a new-to-me money saving site: Mr. Money Mustache | Early Retirement through Badassity
It has a forum, looks pretty interesting.
Good luck!


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

You and your spouse have to be in agreement. If he feels like he is working hard for the family income but being deprived of any benefits of his hard work, he won't be on board for long. You have to set realistic goals and have a plan that you both are following. 

Don't make a drastic change all at once, take steps. Once you take a couple of steps and see the benefits, it is easier to take the next steps. 

Shopping around on all your insurance policies is a good first step. We were able to save $400 a year by raising our deductible from $500 to $1000 and changing companies within Allstate. Made some changes to the internet service and cell phone plan and saved another $40 per month. Rolled back our satellite package and saved another $20 per month. Yes, I know, having satellite tv in the first place isn't the most frugal thing but we watch it a lot over the winter and also my elderly dad is here all day and he likes History channel and such.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Insurance is gonna be tricky now.......my boy just got 2 tickets (one in Feb, one in March)......the rate has not gone up yet. But Lordy I know it will.
Once that happens, I will shop around to see if I can get a better rate.

My Cell plan rocks. I receive a 20% discount off my bill because of where I used to work. None of us have 'smart phones' so there is no data package fee. Just straight phones......unlimited texts for all.

Just called the satellite company and they reduced it 15.00 for 6 months, but it's still too high. I need to see what I can do about that. Direct TV is the only provider that offers NHL Ticket, and we do watch a ton of hockey. *I* could do with out.....it's the other folks in the family that cannot.....

Lights don't come on in the house till 9pm.
TV in the summer is off 90% of the time.

These are GREAT ideas!!


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

MO_cows said:


> You and your spouse have to be in agreement. If he feels like he is working hard for the family income but being deprived of any benefits of his hard work, he won't be on board for long. You have to set realistic goals and have a plan that you both are following.


Very true!

I can do without cable but my husband watches it 24/7. He would feel truly deprived if it was cancelled and so it stays. It is pretty much the last thing that Iwould cancell.


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

It took me about a year to get dh on board with getting rid of the satellite and getting Netflix. It was 65.00 a month! To watch tv....really....It is a little hard when we'd like to watch mindless tv but honestly we have gotten to the point that we are fine with it! I added it up for him 10 years of paying for tv was 7800.00 give or take. That would have bought us a car with cash or a couple of acres of land. We just do things around the house besides tv, like watchin' the chickens! LOL 

You are on the right path!


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Oh, yes. I am good at getting out of debt but then I get back in: 2 years ago we repaired the roof, both cars, and replaced the shot air conditioner and we are still paying that off. Sigh.

At any rate, what I did was to draw up a list of needs, subtracted the cost of those needs from our income, and then I saw what was left. I found it a lot easier to focus on a smaller amount of money and a shorter list of things I MIGHT want to buy.


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## Sweetsong (Dec 4, 2010)

What great advice from everyone!

We, too, live pay-check-to-pay-check. We should never have been like that as my dh and I both worked and he made good money. IMO we should have bought used cars, not new so often. Owning four dogs for thirteen years was the other budget breaker. 

Funny, the past few days I've been obsessing about getting out of debt. Not really with my dh's help as he goes into a downward spiral when we talk about money, but going to try anyway. It took us awhile after he retired to change our lifestyle and now he's going to college in an effort to make a total career change. Sort of a gamble. We've not been late with bills, but boy do I watch the bank account. 

I've been using this calculator, it's awesome, free and as far as I can tell there are no strings attached. Play around with it to see how it works. Free Debt Reduction Calculator for Excel


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Good News.
Dh signed us up for the Dave Ramsey Financial Peace class.
Starts June 6th and runs for 13 weeks.

I hope it delves into the whole "changing the mind and heart" issues of debt as well as the nuts and bolts!!


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## tkrabec (Mar 12, 2003)

I liked the DR book. We implemented the Emergency fund. 
Grow some food. every tomato, carrot, etc will save a little on the food bill.
Buy simplier foods, ie get flour & make stuff, rather than buying the mixes
when there is a good deal on stuff you eat stock up.
get the holiday themed supplies right after the holiday, who cares if you're eating off Christmas or Halloween plates in July?
Fish if you can, Change the type of meat you eat to chicken or pork ( we do mostly chicken) then red meat 2-3x/month.
make stir fry's
Rice & Beans, Chili's, soups, pasta salads, etc.

DR says "Live like no one else so you can live like no one else" ie give up hockey & Direct TV for 1 year spend that time making some money, paying down debt, going to the library or friends houses. Then once you are out of debt, spend some of that money going to hockey games. 

Watch "little league" hockey live.


Have a garage sale, Craigs list or Ebay everything you can. Be ruthless, if you haven't used it in 3 months (and its not a seasonal item) sell it


I have a client who does debt reduction, via credit counseling & thru CC company programs. The minimums are $3-5000, to get a decent benefit to the program, but it does affect your credit somewhat, however DR discounts the hit because the end goal is to not use credit. If you want any information PM me and I will send you to their website, they have a no obligation call if you're interested. Just PM me and I'll forward the site on to you.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> Insurance is gonna be tricky now.......my boy just got 2 tickets (one in Feb, one in March)......the rate has not gone up yet. But Lordy I know it will.
> Once that happens, I will shop around to see if I can get a better rate.


How old is your son? We have already told our kids that once they are 18 they will be getting their own insurance policies. Sure it would be cheaper for them to keep them on ours, but that way any tickets or accidents do not affect our rate. It also teaches them responsibilty.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

We did that Wendy. We kept the kids and their vehicles on our insurance through June after they graduated from high school. We made sure they had a checking account and knew how to manage it, then we put their vehicle in their name and got them their own insurance. It was really not that expensive, none of the girls had a hard time paying it. We are going to set Brady's up soon, as he graduates this month. He will be ready to pay his own in July as his sisters were.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I admire you ladies who made your kids get their own insurance. We are still paying for our youngest child's insurance on our policy. We did it for her older brothers for quite a while too. Our baby is 21. It would save us a lot if she had her own insurance.


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## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

Another thing we do, is when we set up our budget, we over estimate EVERYTHING.

We took the highest utility bill, added $10, and kept that as the budget all year. So while we won't be paying much in electricity(air conditioning) in the wintertime, we'll have a little money left over since we've over budgeted.

Same with everything else - gas and other utilities, grocery budget, etc. Over estimate.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Insurance is gonna be tricky now.......my boy just got 2 tickets (one in Feb, one in March)......the rate has not gone up yet. But Lordy I know it will.
> Once that happens, I will shop around to see if I can get a better rate.


In my family that would have equalled boy no longer drives on parents insurance, he buys his own or doesn't drive.



> Just called the satellite company and they reduced it 15.00 for 6 months, but it's still too high. I need to see what I can do about that. Direct TV is the only provider that offers NHL Ticket, and we do watch a ton of hockey. *I* could do with out.....it's the other folks in the family that cannot.....


Not cannot do without, just don't want to do without... That is putting want before need. Were I in deep debt and needing to get out it would go. Reinstating satellite would be a reward for after I was out of debt and could afford to buy "want" items.

There is also an old rule I learned as a kid, which made sense even then but more so now.. Never finance -anything- that depreciates in value, only finance things that appreciate in value. Never financing a car would be a good example. 

I also refuse to buy a new car and take the giant value loss the minute you sign the papers and it becomes a used car before you even get it home.

And when out of debt, if you continue to live as you have to get out of debt, saving enough to buy a good 1-2 year old car with cash is remarkably easy.


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

We found Dave Ramsey's philosophy and method very helpful and have gotten debt free. We are not very good at living that way yet (on a very small income) but we are learning more every month. I kick myself when I waste hard-earned cash but my mistakes are getting smaller and fewer. 

When you are determined not to spend and not to be in debt you will surprise yourself at your creativity. It's a whole new way of thinking.

Jackie Clay has inspired me, too. She is SO creative in using what you have and in finding stuff for free or a lot less. It's woven through her stories.

Forerunner of HT's Extreme Composting fame helped, too. His approach to building soil fits right in with getting out and staying out of debt - it's a different way of thinking than our usual cultural norm. I wanted to learn to grow food, but had no money for the usual "stuff." His attitude helped me see I could do it and laugh at myself along the way.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Txrider said:


> In my family that would have equalled boy no longer drives on parents insurance, he buys his own or doesn't drive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


all this...personal responsibility(love it)!!! I don't have free digital tv so we pay for dishtv..basic with local $25 a month....no internet...I use the library....just before DH lost his job the dishwasher broke...and its saving us $13 on the light bill a month....good thing when unemployment is $386 a week....I don't have a paying job other than swagbucks etc...so I'm grateful for never being caught in the" keeping up with the Jones'" lifestyle that I was raised with...and maybe suffering thru the shiny new truck every year my dad had to have growing up in the 70's and 80's while I had duct tape on my too small sneakers taught me a powerful lesson....
Money really has never been a giant problem for us....its funny to say that when we've never made much over $40k a year....but its true.
My credit card is a tool that I pay off each month religiously and my card is not my husband's card....and vice versa...another level of personal responsibility...


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Txrider said:


> In my family that would have equalled boy no longer drives on parents insurance, he buys his own or doesn't drive.


I can see how that could work!



> Not cannot do without, just don't want to do without... That is putting want before need. Were I in deep debt and needing to get out it would go. Reinstating satellite would be a reward for after I was out of debt and could afford to buy "want" items.


I don't know what the 'early cancellation fee is' because right now we have one more year in our contract. That is something I should check into.



> There is also an old rule I learned as a kid, which made sense even then but more so now.. Never finance -anything- that depreciates in value, only finance things that appreciate in value. Never financing a car would be a good example.


I TOTALLY agree. All of our cars are paid off. The last car I bought (2010) I paid off in one year. I could do so because I was workin' 2 jobs and paying HUGE monthly payments. My goal when I bought it was to have it paid off in a year.....and I achieved that. Unfortunately, I can no longer work outside the home like I used too. My body said "enough":hrm:!
You were fortunate and blessed to have such a great example growing up. My folks not only financed, but leased. We had a new car every 2 or 3 years.
That is one thing I did not do as an adult. When I bought a car.....I kept it till the wheels fell off (Honda's and Toyota's w/ 300K+ miles on them!!)



> I also refuse to buy a new car and take the giant value loss the minute you sign the papers and it becomes a used car before you even get it home.


I won't buy a new car.....I don't like all the electronics and dh doesn't like working on them!! I don't like driving a 'computer'!!



> And when out of debt, if you continue to live as you have to get out of debt, saving enough to buy a good 1-2 year old car with cash is remarkably easy.


THAT is where I wana be.
I want to live 20% below what we make.....and throw all of that into savings!!!
That is so my goal! Thank you so much!!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Here's another thought:

Dave Ramsey talks a lot about 'investing' and 402K, IRA etc.

With our economy / world the way it is.......this really makes me nervous. 

FIRST I want to change the way we look at money.
SECOND I want to get out of debt and stay that way.
THIRD I want to live 20% below our means, and save it......

So before we get to the 'invest, ira, etc'.....it will be a while...but still wondering what others think about it!!


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

We are putting our money that isn't in the 401k in some stocks, but we have money in safer CDs at the credit union. Not much in interest but we took such a huge hit in our IRA we are not putting anymore into that account since it is invested in the market. We moved to a lower risk managed account and so far we haven't had the huge hits, but I do not think the market is that great. Not with the speed in which it can be hit electronically. No matter what our planner says, we do not invest any more cash in it. We do put into dh's 401k and stock plan but it's very well managed and is in safer investments as well. At our age, we are risk averse.


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## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

Yeah. We haven't really gotten to the "invest" part of Dave's program.

Well, I suppose we kind of have. I invest in food preps.


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

Re: Dave Ramsey investing advice. We haven't reached a level of income to invest. We own our home, so that is an investment in a way. I don't know that I'd invest the way Dave recommends since I haven't yet reached an income that goes that far . We do save ahead for periodic expenses and to replace the car or repair the house. His advice on getting the debt paid off worked very well for us. It's an ongoing process of doing and learning. Sort of like losing weight by eating better - better nutrition, fresh foods, more flavor, etc. You get better at it as you go.

ETA - Given the current possibility - and I know some people think this won't happen - that the government might seize retirement accounts, I am wary of all accounts that are set up for a "tax break." I'd rather pay my taxes and buy real stuff, like land and tools. People with large incomes would have different issues - what little we have in savings is all we have, and I can't afford for the government to take that. I'll pay the taxes on the dividends and live below my income and let God bless that as He wills. Dave Ramsey teaches that you should definitely take advantage of IRA's and other tax-advantaged accounts once you are out of debt except your mortgage.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

jlrbhjmnc said:


> Re: Dave Ramsey investing advice. We haven't reached a level of income to invest. We own our home, so that is an investment in a way. I don't know that I'd invest the way Dave recommends since I haven't yet reached an income that goes that far . We do save ahead for periodic expenses and to replace the car or repair the house. *His advice on getting the debt paid off worked very well for us. It's an ongoing process of doing and learning. Sort of like losing weight by eating better - better nutrition, fresh foods, more flavor, etc. You get better at it as you go*.


This is what I am looking for!!!



> ETA - Given the current possibility - and I know some people think this won't happen - that the government might seize retirement accounts, I am wary of all accounts that are set up for a "tax break." I'd rather pay my taxes and buy real stuff, like land and tools. People with large incomes would have different issues - what little we have in savings is all we have, and I can't afford for the government to take that. I'll pay the taxes on the dividends and live below my income and let God bless that as He wills. Dave Ramsey teaches that you should definitely take advantage of IRA's and other tax-advantaged accounts once you are out of debt except your mortgage.


Great advice, thank you


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

I DO think the government siezing IRAs and 401ks is not that big of a stretch!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

belladulcinea said:


> I DO think the government siezing IRAs and 401ks is not that big of a stretch!


I'm concerned about some type of messing with them, I would rather what little 401K I have been somehow put into land.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Gail Vaz-Oxlade had a fantastic, simple program for getting out of debt, and staying out of debt!

Gail Vaz-Oxlade|Debt-Free Forever|Money|Book|Budgets & Personal Finances

I will also second the recommendation for Joe Dominguez' *Your Money or Your Life*. That book changed my life.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I must get that "Your Money or Your Life". Seeing it recommended so much.


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

I think you would like the book Angie! It was the first one I bought and it's such a good way of looking at money and your life's energy.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I am seeing various authors for the book "Your Money or Your Life" when I go to Amazon and Kindle store look for it. 

Amazon.com: your money or your life kindle: Kindle Store

Which one do I want?

is it this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Your-Money-Li...?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1337375705&sr=1-1


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

belladulcinea said:


> I DO think the government siezing IRAs and 401ks is not that big of a stretch!


The purpose of both has always been to keep that "money" out of your hands and in the hands of investors who know how to turn pennies into dollars, quick.
Both are just another tax that you pay in to someone else' benefit.


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## sendee (Aug 27, 2008)

Angie, yes that is the one. It is a great book!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Okay - it's now ready for download.
Thanks for the advice.


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## jessimeredith (Sep 12, 2004)

In addition to CreditKarma.com (which uses TransUnion as a base for your score) there is also a site called CreditSesame.com (which uses Experian). I started using it a couple of days ago (also free or I wouldn't be using it, lol) and while it's not as in depth as CreditKarma yet, it does show potential.


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## Teri (Jan 13, 2003)

Dave Ramsey hasn't updated his investment advice since the economy went south. He's gotten a lot of criticism for that. 
We have a small IRA/CD in a local bank, a savings account in a credit union and buy silver when we can. We don't trust the government either.


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

and every one that could sold firewood, from a full time stand, to a honor system can and twine wrapped bundle under a homemade FIREWOOD Sign.

Another lived near a pallet factory, and took the scraps from them, split them and sold them for kindling.

The oldest one of them all, as shown about Ernie Davis in his bio movie 
THE EXPRESS, had them redeeming deposit bottles. Been there, done that.

For me, the best thing was simply taking an accounting pad, and writing everything down to the cent. My darling wife is great at using the ENVELOPE BUDGE SYSTEM.

Now truly nothing helps as much as enough income. I recommend you shop at COSTCO or somewhere like that, and KNOW where you can get stuff better than COSTCO, for they are not always the cheapest.

Our garage or yard sales were always huge cash producers.

Simply not planning and using debt irresponsibly was my problem. Not enough income was another.

To quote someone very smart:
"Let your objectives be dictated by your means" or as Grannie would say, "Start out like you want to end up, with your means in mind".

Best thing you can do, is take that first step and confront, accept and embrace your reality. Then work to change it.




Laura Zone 5 said:


> I was thinking about taking 30 days and saving a receipt for EVERYTHING we buy. From groceries, to a candy bar at the gas station.
> Then after 30 days, divide them into 'piles'.
> ((Also make a spread sheet of all the bills IE: lights, gas, phone, etc))
> 
> ...


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

that I write as an investment councilor, and for myself, I hold what excess I have in the following ways: 1/3 Silver, i.e Pre - 1965 US silver Coins, dimes and quarters, 1/3 Cash & 1/3 specific dividend stocks. I do NOT recommend investing PLANS, or govt sheltered plans of any sort, for they may at some point become focal points for a forced exchange or loan of sorts, wherein you are forced to include some government debt in exchange for your securities.

My immediate advice if you have a concern, is to find a local coin dealer or shop and add whatever silver items ( coins ) you can, as small as Dimes, at about 22X face value. They have held and gained in value so that they will buy more than they did when there were circulating, i.e. gasoline still at the old prices if you pay in silver.

Stocks that are dependable for steady dividends without being into processed foods or tobacco, are harder to come by but are available. It takes some research. If you want further info you can write me anytime at
"[email protected]" and I will do my best to get you a reasonable answer without charge, and that applies to all HT Board members.

I advise those kind of stocks as above and a small % of LONG SHOT's.
There are also two automatic investment plans you can use to advantage, without taking severe risks, and if you drop me a line I will outline them for anyone and let your own Due Diligence Investigations take you where it will.

Meanwhile good luck on this, and stick to it !!

You may find this blog of mine helpful : ITS $ YOUR $ MONEY TODAY ! !


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

Hope you like it Angie! I didn't know they had updated the book, if you can find a used copy of the old one you might read it too.


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

Forerunner said:


> The purpose of both has always been to keep that "money" out of your hands and in the hands of investors who know how to turn pennies into dollars, quick.
> Both are just another tax that you pay in to someone else' benefit.


That's sort of how I've come to see these "tax-advantaged" accounts. You give control of your money away which is the same thing as giving away your money. They understand that once you've put the cash into an account and will pay penalties plus more taxes to take it out, most people will let it sit.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

I always say if it an't in your safe, burred it the yard or pocket you an't got it .


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## Felicity (Dec 19, 2010)

Hello Laura,
I ran across this site this evening and thought of you.

It is a personal finance site for women and it says that it is
free to become a member.

It looks really interesting, but I have not had time yet to
check it out myself.

Here is the link. Take a look and see if it is something you
think might help you.

Bootcamps | LearnVest - Where life gets richer


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

One of DR's tenets is to be charitable even while doing the steps. It's a good balance to try and achieve.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

mekasmom said:


> I admire you ladies who made your kids get their own insurance. We are still paying for our youngest child's insurance on our policy. We did it for her older brothers for quite a while too. Our baby is 21. It would save us a lot if she had her own insurance.




Not to sound rude... just curious, but what is stopping you? Same goes for OP?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Freya said:


> Not to sound rude... just curious, but what is stopping you? Same goes for OP?


Not rude at all!

It is more expensive for the boy to go out and get his own policy. With the kids on our policy, we do get a huge discount (multi car / home). 
He is repaying me for the tickets, and it has taught him a valuable lesson.
If the rates go up substantially, I will have him pay the difference!


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

I know some that after their child got a third ticket the Co canceled their insurance .The only way they could keep it was a signed waver stating they couldn't drive any family cars .

We moved our children off our insurance as soon as we could because of the liability reasons as much as any other reason .We also told them if anyone was seen driving their car they would get the boot .

We have liability insurance only and get the multi auto discount got a thousand dollar truck that is drove less than 200 miles a year for the third auto . :hobbyhors


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Freya said:


> Not to sound rude... just curious, but what is stopping you? Same goes for OP?


She is my baby, and I don't want to force her to pay for it if it is a hardship on her. I guess that means I am soft? Or just want to keep my baby a bit longer? She is still in college, and works too, so we help her.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

mekasmom said:


> She is my baby, and I don't want to force her to pay for it if it is a hardship on her. I guess that means I am soft? Or just want to keep my baby a bit longer? She is still in college, and works too, so we help her.


We did the same our reasons were to give a helping hand as long as the rules were followed :hobbyhors Must be in school trying do do better than we did . We helped son till his first job was secure now should we need anything or the wife even mentions wanting something it appears :grin:

Helping someone achieve a better life i understand but if they are running the roads an holding down the couch tough luck .:runforhills:


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## Forest (Oct 14, 2010)

It appears to me that a lot of unnecessary/excess spending happens because folks hate the feeling of being constantly deprived. 

I know a neighbor lady who has no job and lives with her parents for lack of funding. Yet she threw her daughter a lavish 3 year old birthday party at a bouncy house place with all the fixings. The presents that child got were absolutely insane. On the other hand, most people I know who do have income think there's nothing wrong with going to a local park for a three year old birthday. Get some pizza, a cake, and a few balloons, and you're all set.

In the end, the haves end up spending much less on the same occasion than the have nots. Why? Because they do not feel that, dang, this once, I'm going to buy it, because I deserve it/my child deserves it.

So my conclusion from this is: Seek out things hat make you happy/you can indulge in/reward yourself with that are free. That way, you do not feel deprived, as you might be if you constantly thought: I am not going to buy (expensive, not strictly necessary item) because I really can't afford it and I need the money for (necessity).

As in- I am really going to reward myself today and have a picnic outside/hike with my family. 
Instead of: I can't afford to get a magazine from the store, it's not really necessary, think: I wonder if the library has any new magazines/books/DVDs that I could check out for tonight?

Avoid temptation to spend. Find something else to do. Shop from a list every two weeks. Instead of hitting the stores for two items (and ending up with five), go watch a highschool game on the weekend.

It's basically the same as loosing weight by focusing on enjoying healthy foods, rather than focusing on NOT eating junk food.

Think positive. Each time you are doing a free activity, pat yourself on the shoulder for life enjoyed for free. Focus on the good that you are doing, rather than the bad you are trying to avoid.


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

I am watching this thread quite closely as money is somethign I have NEVER been able to get to grips with. It's quite ironic really as I was always sickeningly good at maths - but put that Â£ sign in front of a number and I just can't make any sense of it 

I am trying to work through one stage at a time - I went and had a look at the Dave Ramsey site that someone mentioned - but I have to say it looks a bit daunting. 

We are good at enjoying ourselves for free or very little, I am usually quite good at getting good deals when grocery shopping etc.

I just can't find any other ways to shave money off our expenses  Other than disconnecting the electricity and only eating cold food to save the costs of cooking fuel LOL

I do know I'll get there - just not sure if it will be before I retire or after


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## wes917 (Sep 26, 2011)

I thought of this thread yesterday at. One younger co-worker made a comment about another older co-worker. The older guy was complaining about the price of eating out at some restaruant for a large family function. The younger guy says "you have all that money put away what do you care". I looked at the younger guy (same age as myself) and said "how do you think he saved ot to put in the bank, he saved it by not wasting it on expensive dinners". The older guy just smiled and the youngdr guy replied "you can't take it with you, might as well spend it". He also constantly complains that hes broke, go figure.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

Forest said:


> It appears to me that a lot of unnecessary/excess spending happens because folks hate the feeling of being constantly deprived.
> 
> I know a neighbor lady who has no job and lives with her parents for lack of funding. Yet she threw her daughter a lavish 3 year old birthday party at a bouncy house place with all the fixings. The presents that child got were absolutely insane. On the other hand, most people I know who do have income think there's nothing wrong with going to a local park for a three year old birthday. Get some pizza, a cake, and a few balloons, and you're all set.
> 
> ...


You are so right on! It used to drive our friends crazy because we were "always happy" so to speak. We made small inexpensive things fun no matter what. They could never quite figure out how we managed to make things work with so little. It is very much just a state of mind. Being rich or being poor is a state of mind and you are the only one that can make up your own mind.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

One thing my mother-in-law use to do when she was carefully watching her pennies - she gave herself $2 to do whatever she wanted with. Save and buy a bigger item, or buy candy bars, etc. She said that was the difference in feeling bad about watching the pennies (deprived) or not. I think that was good advice.


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## Buzz Killington (Jan 12, 2012)

Exactly. Make your budget fit *your* reality. If you like something, just admit it and put it in the plan. Gradually as you start to get in synch with what you're spending, then you can ask yourself if it's really something you want to keep spending money on.

I'm a natural cheapskate, but the thing that really helps me when I start to stray is to not think about monthly bills, think about how much they cost every year, and how long you have to work to come up with that money. 

That's what prompted me to drop cable all those years ago. It wasn't $40 a month (I did say it was a long time ago!), it was $480 per year, and I had to ask myself, is it worth $500 a year to watch extra TV? If your answer was yes, then at least you know that's a bill that's going to stay in the budget. It also helps when you want to upgrade. Sure the phone droid will tell you it's "only" $15 extra a month, but when you think about it as almost $200 extra a year, well then maybe there's something you'd rather use that $200 on.


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

We have always had a household budget and that budget has always included personal spending money for everyone. The amount has changed many times as our earnings have gone up and down but to have even a few dollars that you can have fun with is very important.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Sawmill Jim said:


> We have liability insurance only and get the multi auto discount got a thousand dollar truck that is drove less than 200 miles a year for the third auto . :hobbyhors


I get a substantial discount by carrying full coverage on one vehicle. Something worth checking into.


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

I have a question about the "emergency fund" which I take to be for unforeseen expenses rather than "emergencies" as such.

So......if you have just started out with building an emergency fund and an unforeseen (unavoidable expense) comes up which costs more than your fund currently amounts to. Do you use your embryonic emergency to pay as much as you can in cash and owe the rest, do you right the expense up as another "debt" or.....something else?


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

hoggie said:


> I have a question about the "emergency fund" which I take to be for unforeseen expenses rather than "emergencies" as such.
> 
> So......if you have just started out with building an emergency fund and an unforeseen (unavoidable expense) comes up which costs more than your fund currently amounts to. Do you use your embryonic emergency to pay as much as you can in cash and owe the rest, do you right the expense up as another "debt" or.....something else?


We have several emergency funds. Takes a little more planning but it is not difficult. We have an emergency fund that contains 6 months worth of basic expenses. We don't touch this unless we have run out of all other money - which has happened during unemployment and sickness.

A lot of unforseen expenses aren't really emergencies - they are possible so you sort of have to plan for them. I mean you know that sooner or later you will have an electric appliance or car repair that goes beyond simple maintenance so you should be putting repair and maintenance money aside. You may also have elderly parents or pregnant daughters who will need your help so you need to put some travel money aside. I call this my trouble fund.

When you start saving for your emergency and trouble funds you really have to hope that you are lucky and don't have to use them until they are well built up. In the past when we have been hit with multiple problems we have used all of our money first but when you run out of all of your money then you may have to use credit and then work to pay off the debt. That is one reason not to use credit for fun or daily expenses - save it all for the troubled times.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

I haven't had time to read all of this, so forgive me if I am repeating other people.

I feel that most people have a dishonest relationship with money. Credit cards allow people to live a fake life, owning things that they cannot afford. A person needs to identify the reason they feel the need to buy things beyond their means, with credit. Live a *financially honest *life.

I have never owned a single credit card and never will.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Allen W said:


> I get a substantial discount by carrying full coverage on one vehicle. Something worth checking into.


Thanks :bow: The truck i just got is a 1989 F250 7.3 Diesel with 116,000 miles on it i wore craigslist out hunting it everything works on this truck got it super cheep for cash .Think guy needed a payment . Wife's car is a 99 near 200,000 we keep older cars because of the personal property tax . We buy autos cash only and i rather have my money than a car .

Our life style isn't for everyone we know I know some that say they can't miss a days work or they will be behind .I tried that route but no more .This old house is ours cars no payments except electric , insurances and internet.The wife can squeeze a quarter till the eagle screams .:hysterical:

We can sit here a while and never move if we have too .Lots of beans, bullets and a big garden . Go Galt :thumb:


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

It depends what your emergency fund is FOR!

I do have a small ssavings account, and if an expense is truly unavoidable I will use it all and then use the credit cards.

BUT!

I also have an emergency fund, which is so that, no matter what, we will eat! I will NOT use that for an unexpected expense.

Hoggie, I do not know the state of the economy where you live, but our recession is pretty bad. Nobody's job is safe. The emergency fund is for true emergencies, so that we always have full stomachs.


hoggie said:


> I have a question about the "emergency fund" which I take to be for unforeseen expenses rather than "emergencies" as such.
> 
> So......if you have just started out with building an emergency fund and an unforeseen (unavoidable expense) comes up which costs more than your fund currently amounts to. Do you use your embryonic emergency to pay as much as you can in cash and owe the rest, do you right the expense up as another "debt" or.....something else?


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

pumpkin said:


> We have always had a household budget and that budget has always included personal spending money for everyone.


I don't know about Laura's case, but I can tell you that it is almost impossible to force a budget on a husband who doesn't want to be constrained. 
At our house it is more like, he allots so much money for bills and savings, but the rest is untouchable. It is for fun, for toys, for things that please the flesh. And you really shouldn't fight over money, so you just pray that someday he will grow up. Now that's not to say that the bills aren't paid, they are. But it is to say that we could be saving a whole lot more than we do. But God provides, and has always provided enough to pay the bills plus give money to DH for "fun" things like electronic toys, eating out, having pocket watches or other collections, ebaying, buying this and that, etc.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

pumpkin said:


> We have always had a household budget and that budget has always included personal spending money for everyone.


I don't know about Laura's case, but I can tell you that it is almost impossible to force a budget on a husband who doesn't want to be constrained. 
At our house it is more like, he allots so much money for bills and savings, but the rest is untouchable. It is for fun, for toys, for things that please the flesh. And you really shouldn't fight over money, so you just pray that someday he will grow up. 
But we could be saving a whole lot more than we do, and doing more industrious things with our income IMO. But God provides, and has always provided enough to pay the bills plus give money to DH for "fun" things like electronic toys, eating out, having pocket watches or other collections, ebaying, buying this and that, etc. And there is nothing wrong with toys, but they aren't that important to me. I would rather own more land, gold, and other forms of true "wealth".


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Haven said:


> I feel that most people have a dishonest relationship with money. Credit cards allow people to live a fake life, owning things that they cannot afford. A person needs to identify the reason they feel the need to buy things beyond their means, with credit. Live a *financially honest *life.



Bingo!
This is what I am hoping the Dave Ramsey Financial Peace classes address.
THE ROOT of the problem. Not just the debt.
But HOW and WHY the debt is there, and how not to go there, ever again!!

I can do all the 'how to fix it stuff' (snowball, budget, bla bla bla) but I am really wanting to dig deep into the root issue and eliminate the pattern of wrong things, and replace it with a Godly way of thinking!!


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## Vickie44 (Jul 27, 2010)

Unusual circumstances put me in a position where I eliminated all credit cards and debts and didnt even want a checking account affliation for a time . I paid my household bills ( cable electric etc ) in cash and got receipts. 
I learned so much in that time about finances and spending habits. If I wanted something I saved for it, all impulse and convinience buying was easily stopped and I reformulated my whole way of thinking.
Creative ways to make do with what I have replaced feeling whiny and disadvantaged cause I couldn't have what I wanted or THOUGHT I needed.
This was very eyeopening and has had a very positive effect on my life


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

mekasmom said:


> I don't know about Laura's case, but I can tell you that it is almost impossible to force a budget on a husband who doesn't want to be constrained.
> At our house it is more like, he allots so much money for bills and savings, but the rest is untouchable. It is for fun, for toys, for things that please the flesh. And you really shouldn't fight over money, so you just pray that someday he will grow up. Now that's not to say that the bills aren't paid, they are. But it is to say that we could be saving a whole lot more than we do. But God provides, and has always provided enough to pay the bills plus give money to DH for "fun" things like electronic toys, eating out, having pocket watches or other collections, ebaying, buying this and that, etc.


This is very true and quite common. Husbands and wives who have very different spending and saving habits have to figure out a way to get along. That is why it is so important for the more cautious partner to protect themselves and the children and to some extent the spender. 

If you don't have common goals then you need to keep finances and credit separate. Yours, mine and ours. A common checking account for common expenses and then separate for savings and fun. 

If one person stays at home to raise the children while the other works outside the home then 1/3 of the net income should be placed under their control. No married couple should have one partner as the custodian and the other as a full dependent.


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

Oh heck - bad day today 

I was aware that the budget I made out at new year had gone awry. It has been worrying me because I redid it and redid it at the time and couldn't see anything I had forgotten.

I was aware that I had gone over budget on a couple of things, but thought I had taken them into account.

So I got out the magic book today to try to find the leak. Turns out it isn't a great big leaky something big I forgot to budget for - it is the constant drip drip drip of "extra little bits" of shopping that I have made a cheque out for or paid with debit card. I try to draw my grocery money in cash each week so that I can see what I've got. But because of cash flow problems a couple of months, I ended up using cheques instead - so I can't even tell EXACTLY how much I over spent in this way  Just know that it a little tiny drip that has created a huge hole - a little bit like Little Peter and the hole in the **** 

On the plus side - I now know where the money has been disappearing to for the last 4 months. On the down side - that is going to be a REALLY hard to plug :Bawling:


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## Zilli (Apr 1, 2012)

belladulcinea said:


> It took me about a year to get dh on board with getting rid of the satellite and getting Netflix. It was 65.00 a month! To watch tv....really....It is a little hard when we'd like to watch mindless tv but honestly we have gotten to the point that we are fine with it! I added it up for him 10 years of paying for tv was 7800.00 give or take. That would have bought us a car with cash or a couple of acres of land. We just do things around the house besides tv, like watchin' the chickens! LOL
> 
> You are on the right path!


I don't have cable. There are very few shows that I can't find on-line. Hulu has tons of shows, including a lot of good old comedies such as The Dick Van ****, Mary Tyler Moore, Barney Miller, and even old Westerns like The Big Valley.

Sidereel has links to most, if not all, of the cable shows that I'm interested in: _Weeds, Dexter, Shameless, Nurse Jackie, Californication,_ etc.

I'm also watching _Dallas_, from the very beginning, through Sidereel.

I do have Netflix because my son watches a lot of programs/movies that way but once he moves out on his own, I will dump that, too.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Went to the first class last night. (Dave Ramsey Financial Peace)
I am so encouraged.

HE even compared it to weight watchers!!
This course will not only help us to get out of debt and stay that way.......but its primary concern is to change the way we look at money. 
It deals with the 'heart' of the issue (the root of money problems).

I am going to order the full kit so that I can teach the 3 kids right along with us. 
Things like getting OUT of debt won't apply to them right now....as they don't have debt, but hopefully they will not follow in my footsteps and we can teach them the RIGHT path to be on from the get go!


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

Good for you Laura. Sincerely. It takes determination to get out of debt and stay out of debt because you do have to change a lot of how you look at things. When we were first married I bought a whole dining room set (on credit of course) because it was my turn to have Christmas dinner and I was ashamed of our kitchen table. Well I got my just desserts - the set did not get delivered in time so we ended up eating on the kitchen table and the picnic table from outside anyways. And we had a great time and no one noticed. But I still had to pay for that new set - for about 4 years. I never did that again. And I bought it in such a hurry that I did not notice that I didn't really like it -LOL!

But oh boy once you are debt free you cannot believe how good you will feel. How secure. .


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

RAmsey is good, but I still prefer Crown Financial Ministries, it was started by Larry Burkett as Christian Financial Concepts back in the 1970's.

The root comes down to our desires/wants. They are infinite, but our time and resources are finite. Then mix in the consumer driven culture we live in, and bingo, we have big spenders, and little savings.


Don't eat out, don't buy soda pop, and yes, eat less meat and less prepared microwave food.

Pinto beans, lentils, barley, rice, etc are very filling and so cheap. FOr the price of a meal eating out, say $10, you could buy about 13 lbs of split peas at the local HEB grocery. [79Â¢ for 16 oz bag]. WHich, when cooked would be say 30 + lbs of food. This is just an example.


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

GCM, you left out that Crown Financial Ministries is what inspired Dave Ramsey; was the source!


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

What is HEB? I've never known what that acronym stands for?


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I have never been in debt so I don't know but.... You can't do it overnight. Only buy what you NEED, not what you want. Just like getting back to basics with your food expenses, don't go cold turkey all at once. You get a craving, you lose focus. Spread out the money you save, use it where it is costing you the most, dollar spent for dollar return. Start a savings account, that becomes your bank. Save everywhere you can, it takes time, time for you to get your mind adjusted, your budget adjusted. Life without debt is freedom. You won't need to waste time and energy on money issues. You don't need to teach your kids about debt, have them save up for what they need, not want. You buying what you REALLY need will SHOW them. Life will get simpler, easier, less stress, the sky really is blue. What a wonderful life....James


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

*This thread stopped abruptly in 2012. *:awh:



I am going through some of my old bookmarked threads and reread this one and realized that it just ended right after the OP/Laura went to the first DR class.

Now I am dying to know how it all went?


:rock: I am still rooting for you!!!


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

I love Ramsey and he has changed our lives. But I will offer this advice. Books and workbooks are great to learn the tricks; but for ongoing encouragement, inspiration, and just plain "I can do this" attitude - you cannot beat listening to his radio show. He is on a lot of stations and streamed online or you can maybe download previous shows and listen on an mp3 player. Find his show and make a point to listen at least a couple times a week.

This is a slow process and you really need that cheer leading to keep you going in between the victories of actually paying something off and closing the account.


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## sdnapier (Aug 13, 2010)

One meatless meal a week, two if possible

Have breakfast for dinner, it's cheaper

When money is tight at the end of the month have a meal that uses up the food in the fridge even if that meal becomes a little odd as a result

Shop thrift stores.

Write down every penny. This will show you if there are any bad patterns...such as a convenience store coffee and dough nut

Have a week or even a month where not one extra thing is bought. My don't-buy-anything is this month. Only one more week to go.

Many of us are stuck in school still: good girl/boy, you got all A's so here is a treat. Treating yourself because you worked hard or it was a bad day is not a good idea. 

Congratulate yourself on every win and do a happy dance!!!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Posted June-2012



> Went to the first class last night. (Dave Ramsey Financial Peace)
> I am so encouraged.


I was in a VERY different place then, than I am now.
I wanted SO badly to 'grab onto' something 'good' and embrace it.
I was a mess.



> HE even compared it to weight watchers!!
> This course will not only help us to get out of debt and stay that way.......but its primary concern is to change the way we look at money.
> It deals with the 'heart' of the issue (the root of money problems).


To do things 'as a couple' you first must BE a couple.
I was so blind, and SO trying to do the 'right thing' back then.
The good news is this: I did discover that my inability to say "no" was because of my insecurity of being alone. 
I thought as long as I never said no to him (on purchases) then he would be happy and never leave.
Even typing that out sounds SO childish and SO duh....but that was my 'take away' as to why the debt was there.
If you have to 'buy someones love'......it's not love. 



> I am going to order the full kit so that I can teach the 3 kids right along with us.
> Things like getting OUT of debt won't apply to them right now....as they don't have debt, but hopefully they will not follow in my footsteps and we can teach them the RIGHT path to be on from the get go!


I did buy the full kit, on sale. 
I sold it on Craigs List last year for 75.00
My experiences with 'the Dave Ramsey followers' is that they are a bit extreme, and 'churchy'.
His snowball idea is amazing, and it works.
Letting your CC debt go....destroying your credit rating?
I thought that was horrible advice.
NO WAY am I letting my credit rating go in the toilet. 
I spent a better part of my life making sure that it was stellar....

So, the good news is this.
When I sell my home, I will pay off all of the cc debt. 
I will only have a car pmt (140.00 with a 5k balance). My daughter pays 140 and I pay 160, so we can pay it off in 3 years instead of 5.
I will have to buy a new home, which will give me a mortgage pmt....
But once the cards are paid, the accounts will be closed.


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## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

Best thing I did was start using quicken home for managing the checkbook.

I didn't change anything I did other than that. After a couple months, things start calling into place . you see where you spend your money and change things after you've seen the good and bad habits.


In the end, its all about your own personal discipline and if you are married, communication and working as a couple and not individuals with separate paths.


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I am going to order the full kit so that I can teach the 3 kids right along with us.


There you go, trying to fix something by BUYING something. Just teach your children by doing it yourself. no book will help them like a role model. stop spending !!!!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Thanks for the hot tip!!


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Weeell... I PARTIALLY agree with Farmgal!

I use the library for my books! If they do not have it, then I ask them to get it!

I have a medical book on multiple sclerosis on order right now: they are getting it from a medical publishing firm. I know from experience that it cannot be renewed and so I will have to read it when it eventually gets in. 

I ordered a second book on the same subject used from Amazon. This book is more of a reference books as it tries to cover ALL of the alternative therapies for MS. Now, I have had some good results with the alternative therapies but there must be a hundred listed and I am not going to try them all tomorrow: it would do me great harm. So that I have the book with side effects and how helpful the alternative treatments are I decided to buy the book used. 

I read all the time, and the books I request are waiting for me when I go into town. I usually just take notes from the better ones and then give them back to the library.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Post 131 was the UPDATE, to post 122.

There you will see......



> To do things 'as a couple' you first must BE a couple.
> I was so blind, and SO trying to do the 'right thing' back then.
> *The good news is this:* I did discover that my inability to say "no" was because of my insecurity of being alone.
> I thought as long as I never said no to him (on purchases) then he would be happy and never leave.
> ...


I was PM'ed and asked to 'update' this thread, so I did.....but not for the purpose of someone else's target practice below the belt.

No dip quit spending.

Tell a fat person to 'quit eating'
Tell an alcoholic to 'quit drinking'
Tell a meth head ' quit smoking'
Tell a troll to 'quit trolling'

Yeah 'quit spending' is about as helpful, useful and considerate as the above "just quit ____" comments.:facepalm:



> There you go, trying to fix something by BUYING something


It was not available at the library (I checked, and my first choice) AND the one playing the part of my 'husband' WANTED the kit and thought it was a GREAT idea to get the full kit (dvd's and all). I 'submitted' to that request. WHICH AGAIN TAKES ME BACK TO THE FIRST FOUR SENTENCES IN POST 131



> Just teach your children by doing it yourself. no book will help them like a role model.


If you do not know how to run electricity in your home, do you (A) get a book and teach your self or (B) just dive and and do what feels right.
Well, you go to the library, check out a ton of books, dvd's, vhs tapes, check u-tube......
AND as a home educator, the kids are used to seeing me, get books on topics of subjects I am not well versed in, to teach myself how to do things.
THAT is role modeling. 



> stop spending !!!!


Rude. 5 pages of great positive input, and you slam in one ultra negative sentence? wow...just wow.:trollface


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## Vosey (Dec 8, 2012)

LauraZone5 - thanks for updating as otherwise I wouldn't have found this thread! I only had time to read the first page this morning but look forward to the rest after work. It sounds like your journey took some unexpected turns, but without figuring out why we spend there can't be any change. I've been struggling with this for 20+ years. I can be incredibly frugal for weeks to months and then I blow it all (and interestingly always on things that are 'useful', never crazy stuff). I need to do a little more soul searching....

Thanks again!


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

I wasnt trying to be negative. I was just pointing out how spending slips in. take it for what it is...you said you are going to classes to learn. Im just thinking your learning there and they will learn then from you. why would you need even more books if your taking a class? How do you think dave ramsey makes money? by getting people to buy more books.


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

I suppose what I was trying to say is life is full of consumerism traps and I was just pointing one out it seems you were falling into by buying the additional books when you are still learning yourself. Getting out of debt cant be done by taking a magic pill or reading a book. Its really inside. Changing our whole perspective on how we view purchases or get caught up in the "got to have it" consumerism trap. Its all around us and I was pointing it out. I like dave ramsey dont get me wrong. but I got everything free from library loan and its all on youtube video's. 

I went to a seminar with my friend on flipping houses. they tricked her into buying 4500$ worth of books and BS and she used her credit card. I couldnt believe it. She never bought or flipped a house. 

Just saying. sorry if you took it negative.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

It is not about what you make, but what you spend!


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

One thing about Dave Ramsey is that what he is saying now he said 10 yrs ago. It never changes even from the days of his first show The Money Game with Roy Matlock.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Normally I am all for hard, in your face, pointed advice. If the problem is taking drugs, you just have to stop; no one can really help you stop or stop for you, it is just a hard decision you have to make. But spending, like eating, can not just be stopped. (don't bore me with a hermit who lives in a cave story) There is some necessary amount of spending that must go on to live in a modern society. 

To stop over spending requires education, understanding, careful observation, and tons of discipline. If you spend a little money to get an education and tools to help control poor spending habits, I think you are way ahead of the game. 

I have an acquaintance who I've seen buy a $1 roll of toilet paper in a convenience store. For the same money he could have bought 4 rolls in a grocery store, or for $12 he could have purchased 36 rolls in a Costco. But he says he is out of money and can not afford the 36 roll package and he didn't know he needed TP last time he was in the grocery. Something as small as that, a little prior planning (hey, we all know it's a product that will get used and it doesn't spoil on the shelf), a little discipline and education, and he could be saving $20+ / month. That won't fix all his financial woes, but it is the little things that add up and make a difference. 

LZ5 - I applaud your efforts.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

*{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Laura}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}*


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

*I completely missed the part about your #$%^$#@! ex. Sorry I bumped this now!* 

On the "bright side", I have a feeling that things will be "easier" for you to do without having to haul that "dead weight" around. This thread is still valid, and I am glad it's here. It will help some people, even if they only lurk! And I hope that you are able to work through it all in your own way and get to where you wanted to be when you started this! Feel free to keep posting if you want! It's still a worthy goal and you are still worth it! 


{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}


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## fixitguy (Nov 2, 2010)

Back in 08', I had a CC maxed out, 10k worth. I started a business, and thought the money was just going to roll in and I would pay it off...I was wrong. Visa was calling me, min payments were $600 per month. I thought about bankruptcy, then I called visa and told them I was out of work and collecting unemployment. I got on a payment plan of $155 per month, with no intrest charges. The catch is, you cant miss a payment, or the deal was done. I made my last payment a few weeks back.:happy2:


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## Westexas (Apr 10, 2013)

We used Consumer Credit Counseling to pay off over $50K in CC debt a few years ago - including my mother's prescriptions from before the Medicare Part D plans became available. What a fantastic feeling, and we haven't had a card since then. Now we are paying back taxes, but that experience taught us that we can do this. LZ5, I am so grateful to have a partner that is with me in this. Bless you for keeping your head up. You are setting a wonderful example for your family and friends, including us at HT.


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