# Herding dogs and goats?



## Tam319 (Jan 6, 2007)

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone uses herding dogs to work their goats? I have a Maremma to guard the herd, but I am thinking of a herding dog to assist in moving, separating, etc. I was leaning more towards a Shetland Sheepdog as they are smaller in stature and thus probably less stressful than being worked by a BC or Aussie. I have a commercial meat herd that are not super tame. I can typically catch them when it is neccessary but it would probably be easier on all of us if I could use a well trained dog. I have heard that goats stress out a lot easier than sheep, however, so I was wondering if herding dogs are not advised.

Also, it is a good idea to remove your Maremma LGD from the pen prior to working the goats with the herding dog, correct?? Because the LGD thinks the herding dog is 'attacking' its herd?

Anyway, thought it would be interesting to hear some feedback on this.

Thanks,


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## Westwood (May 13, 2002)

Goats do not respond well to herding dogs. Rather then "herd" they tend to disperse. In all directions possible! lol.


> Also, it is a good idea to remove your Maremma LGD from the pen prior to working the goats with the herding dog, correct?? Because the LGD thinks the herding dog is 'attacking' its herd?


Yes, your LGD will rightfully feel your herd is being attacked. 

Goats are not sheep. Watch closely and you'll see the difference. 

The rest of you don't be derragority. Our poster doesn't know the difference, yet.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

I have never actually tried using a herding dog to move goats, but a friend brings over his young Border Collie who has tried to herd them many times. He gets very frustrated because instead of herding away from him like they are *supposed* too....they prick their ears, stomp their feet and come *toward* him.  And yes, my LGD's do NOT like him.


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## Patty0315 (Feb 1, 2004)

I use my GSD to herd. For the limited training she has had she does well.

Patty


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## Hip_Shot_Hanna (Apr 2, 2005)

http://www.kelpiedogs.caviesrule.com/custom2.html Maybe this article will help.

For what it's worth, I'm not sure a Shetland Sheepdog could herd goats. They were developed to herd Shetland Sheep, which are smaller than regular sheep. 

I do not think a good herding dog would be a problem for goats, no matter the size. 

Good luck!


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## 13Blackbirds (May 29, 2005)

We've had the same "scatter" experience. We use a Blue Heeler on our cattle, she is small, less than 50lbs. But goats, at least in our experience, do not work with dogs. They are rather terrified.


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## Tam319 (Jan 6, 2007)

Westwood said:


> Goats are not sheep. Watch closely and you'll see the difference.
> 
> The rest of you don't be derragority. Our poster doesn't know the difference, yet.


Ok, uh...thanks? Yes, I realize goats are not sheep, nor do they possess the same instinct to "flock" as sheep. My first doe delivered triplets over 15 years ago so its not like I just fell off the turnip truck. But thanks for assuming that anyway 

I have heard of some producers with 1200+ animals that do use BCs to work them. I imagine with numbers like that a dog would be a neccessity. I also know of a fellow producer whose doe was bitten on the shoulder by a dog (the bite was not deep) yet collapsed and died instantly from the stress. I was merely wondering if anyone has had success with a dog as once you start to get a fairly large herd, handling can become a bit of a challenge. I know a lot of people swear by getting the queen to lead the herd to wherever, but it can be challenging when you just need to cut a few does out of the herd.

I too have experienced the whole "scatter and scamper" routine when trying to move them myself. That is what got me thinking that a dog may be able to assist and save me from cursing under my breath each time I need to get a doe in. LOL

Oh, and I also just heard back from a friend who raises BCs for herding and agility. She suggested that although smaller, shelties are quite a bit more vocal and bouncy, which may be more stressful than a larger, yet quieter dog. That is interesting. Or perhaps she's just a BC person through and through  LOL

Thanks,


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

From my limited experience with goats and a BC I would think a dog that could be controlled to stay at a further distance might work well. Crowd them too much and they go nuts. Kind of like herding geese.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Tam319 said:


> Oh, and I also just heard back from a friend who raises BCs for herding and agility. She suggested that although smaller, shelties are quite a bit more vocal and bouncy, which may be more stressful than a larger, yet quieter dog.


I'm not a big fan of either breed, but I'd certainly go BC before I would Shelties. Shelties are yappy and excitable and the ones I have met have a tendency to bite.....there are exceptions, of course.


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## Muskrat (Sep 4, 2005)

Our heelers are a bit aggressive for up close work with the goats, for instance when we want to handle a particular goat. They work well for a mass movement when they're just encouraging the flow before a line at a comfortable distance.

Our goats tend to either popcorn it at the approach of the dog or they stand to challenge the dog, and sometimes a combination.

I don't know about using the border collies. My goats really don't like it when dogs do the eye contact intimidation thing.

The long and the short of it is I wouldn't use a strange dog on my goats.


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## country_dream (Oct 18, 2006)

I have an aussie and six goats, she can get them to move if she wants to, except one of them. she doesn't actually herd them becase she's not willing to learn this "trick" but when she's in a playful mood she gets them where she wants them, the goats don't mind, too much.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

I have friends that use BCs with their goats and have good luck, but we're talking about dogs that have been with the goats long term and have the goats buffaloed. I know that all of the goats that have come from homes with working herding dogs are VEERRY respectful of my old farm dog, unlike the home growns. They all know Tess is a sweet natured pushover.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

I've used my border collies with goats that were used to dogs as well as that haven't been around dogs before. A good dog will teach the goats to respect him , and get used to him. They don't have as great of a flocking instinct as sheep so it is more important to have a dog with strong gather instincts as well as guts. Goats will run all over not listen to a weak dog. I don't believe I would go with a sheltie either, hard to find one that isn't weak, or that even has any kind of good work ethic anymore. You also won't want to try to train a pup on adult goats that are unused to dogs when you get to that stage. They will usually buffalo the dog and hurt his confidence. Find a good breeder in your area who has good dogs and is willing to give lessons when your pup is old enough to work. Make sure when you go to look at a pup the parents can do what you expect your dog to be able to do, pens or fields, quiet controlled work with nice quiet stock. Here are a few links that might help. 

http://www.usbcha.com/sheepdog.htm

http://www.working-border-collie.com/


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

wendle said:


> I've used my border collies with goats that were used to dogs as well as that haven't been around dogs before. A good dog will teach the goats to respect him , and get used to him. They don't have as great of a flocking instinct as sheep so it is more important to have a dog with strong gather instincts as well as guts. Goats will run all over not listen to a weak dog. I don't believe I would go with a sheltie either, hard to find one that isn't weak, or that even has any kind of good work ethic anymore. You also won't want to try to train a pup on adult goats that are unused to dogs when you get to that stage. They will usually buffalo the dog and hurt his confidence. Find a good breeder in your area who has good dogs and is willing to give lessons when your pup is old enough to work. Make sure when you go to look at a pup the parents can do what you expect your dog to be able to do, pens or fields, quiet controlled work with nice quiet stock. Here are a few links that might help.
> 
> http://www.usbcha.com/sheepdog.htm
> 
> http://www.working-border-collie.com/


I have two lgds that get along with my border collies and also tolerate dogs I get in for training with no trouble. It can depend on the lgd, they are not all tolerant, mine were raised together.


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