# First goat lost to predators, time to get serious about an LGD



## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Okay... I have never owned an LGD but I obviously need one now. I had a doe separated in a pen for recuperation from illness and went out this morning to see some pretty obvious signs of coyote attack. Our place is big enough now that I can't see everywhere from the house and I can't expect my rat terriers to successfully drive off coyotes.

So, recommendations? I think I need to get a dog that is not a puppy. I don't know how to raise an LGD to do its job properly and from what little I know, it really needs to be taught by other dogs how to do its job.

I have chickens, and goats and children so what do I do and where do I go? Are there decent rescue options? All of my animals are in a tizzy right now because of this... I am too. The kids are very upset as well.

I live in Central Florida, if you know someone local-ish that could help me.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Even if you had an LGD, one goat separated from the others may not be protected. This is how I lost one of my sheep. The donkeys were with the flock, and the one separated was vulnerable. The donkeys ran off the coyote or coy dog, but it was too late. If you are going to split one goat off from the herd, you have to make sure it is more secure. Perhaps in a building.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

We keep our sick goats in the garage- the concrete floor easy to discinfect, and you just lay down a thick bedding of straw for the duration... its a little noisy though what with the lonely goat....
Saw a dead coyote on the road enroute to childs school this AM, they are def on the prowl these days....
(our LGD works fine, its the neighbor doesnt like the sound of him working, and we did not do a darn thing to train him, alot of it IS instinct, he is gonna guard his territory. I guess the training part is handling - by humans- and getting him used to the stock he will be working with)...


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## aleefarms (Jul 23, 2014)

In my opinion your greatest defense against predators is a well built electrified fence. If you choose a dog, the perimeter must do the job of containing the dog as well as keeping out the multitude of animals that will kill your livestock. Cross fences and paddocks can be fitted with a gate that holds the goats but allows the dog to pass through. I'm sure many posters on this forum can recommend breeders that have experience with maintaing a proven bloodline that can meet your needs without causing you more problems that you are already experiencing. When I first started using dogs for guarding I made many costly mistakes by not putting in the research necessary to obtain a dog that was capable of the job I needed. My first five dogs which were all Anatolians, Pyrenees, or a cross of the two. One of them could jump a 5 foot fence and roam 1/2 mile. He killed 2 deer and a horse. I had one that I thought was perfect until she was two years old and she started eating new born lambs. I had one that ate a six week old puppy. I'm happy to say that now I have 3 Akbash, 2 proven five year old brothers that are wonderful and a five month old that appears very promising. My intentions aren't to discourage against a Lgd but to advise there are many things to consider if you hope to have a successful outcome.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Way too late for any LGD other than a fully grown, proven dog. As in over 30mo in age that is bonded to goats. Which is hard to find, few people get rid of proven dogs.

Any isolated animal has zero protection, dog can't help it. It needs to be locked up in an enclosed barn or similar. Dog protects flocks where it can herd them together and not worry about one left behind somewhere.


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## Donna1982 (Jun 14, 2011)

Here we have 4 LGD... well actually 5 because I kept a girl behind in our last litter. I run in pairs. There are three in the milkers lot and one in with the babies (the pup is in there too learning). 

When there is an issue they split up. One of them runs the goats back to the barn and the other two chase off what is ever there. They do this bark (strange as it sounds) that will make who ever stayed back come running. I swear it is like they are saying "Hey we need back up. Get over here.'' The goats have learn if the dogs are flipping out you run fast back to the barn. 

I do agree you need an older dog. I do suggest everyone has two they just seem to work better together.


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## Donna1982 (Jun 14, 2011)

Also a lot of rescues will not let you adopt one. I tried for 2 years almost before getting my girls. They do not like them to be outside working. They think they need to be house dogs.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

After the dog killed the neighbor's two alpacas then came over to kill my goats, he got a 2 year old LGD that had failed to stay with his herd. He had a difficult start, giving them the same problem of refusing to be confined, even in a 6 ft fence.
But they are experienced dog owners so decided to work out the problems. First they neutered him. Then they walked the perimeter of the fields with him daily. Then they ran a line of hot wire at the top of the fences. And saw he was brought up to an appropriate weight as he would also jump fence to look for dinner.
They found the solution by having a place where he could be in with the animals and still see the house when he wanted. That seemed to be a requirement for this particular dog- he would stay put if he could see the house. It's been a couple of months now that the dog has patrolled his territory yet stayed in his fields.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I have Karakachan LGD's. One in with my does' & 1 is in with my bucks. I do feel that they do their jobs very efficiently running single but as Donna said 2 work Great together.
I just don't feel (does' pasture is 5 acres & bucks 2 acres) that I have enough fenced space for 2 dogs in each pasture.

A pup won't help you now but you also don't need to teach them their job. Buy from a reputable breeder that breeds WORKING dogs, not show dogs or house pets & they know their job from the start. It is instinct & bred into them.
The only training they actually need is basic dog training & commands, my 2 are Great with the goats & definitely know their jobs & I bought them both as pup's.

I do believe by 9 months old my karakachan's could handle anything that entered my pastures.
We have 4 foot fencing/cattle panels(a little of both) & our dogs don't go over our fencing at all. No electric fence here.
They really prefer to stay with their goats & don't want to leave the pstures even when the gates are open.

Not sure where you are located but I Love our Karakachan's & am so glad we decided on this breed.
There are a few breeders in the country & I know of a couple that have pup's now. Hoping to breed mine this fall but keeping my fingers crossed & hoping for a litter in the winter but you need something in the works now.

I'd definitely be locking the goats up at night until you get something because those coyotes will be back.

So sorry for your loss, truly heartbreaking I'm sure.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Yes good points all-- did I mention that my pup (the one who knew his LGD job instinctively) was born in pasture amongst goats - both parents working LGDs..... so yeah he had that from birth, we have a child and other dogs and smaller land so wanted to train him to be comfortable around people as well.....


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

My first thought was about that sick goat being out in a pasture alone...an invitation for disaster; so, along with others, I encourage you to create a more protected place for ill animals.

I, too, have a Karakachan; and I *love, love, love *this breed. I got her as a pup and kept her around my goats and chickens (and a grown male lab...now neutered). A little time was spent initially walking her around the broundaries of where she would be living. She never once has dug under or gone over the 4 ft field fencing. I can even leave the gate(s) open and she will not exit our farm. This breed (at least my Valentina) is so smart that she literally taught herself how to play and enjoy this farm while being respectful to the animals/fowl she is expected to guard; and her manner of guarding is rather quiet when she can see the threat. Otherwise it is a combination bark/growl/howl (with probable charge) when she becomes aware of a predator on the outside of our farm. (You might contact that American Karakachan Organization to find out if any breeders are near you.)


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

The advice about facilities is appreciated. We just purchased this place and repairs/ construction is an ongoing project. Electric fencing is not an option because of restrictions in this area... that kind of fencing is deemed hazardous. It's ridiculous and if we'd know about any restrictions we never would have bought the place.

I will keep looking... my big concern is kidding season, obviously. But perhaps a vigil to personally take out anything that might be a danger at the time might be better than anything much else.


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