# I know how to fix the welfare system



## Guest (Dec 6, 2011)

Let's go back to the poorhouse system. If you need welfare, you have to live at a poorhouse, where you are required to work day labor if you are physically sound.

I can guarantee we'd filter out the scammers and multi-generational abusers pretty quick.


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## RebelDigger (Aug 5, 2010)

:goodjob:


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## Guest123 (Oct 10, 2006)

I don't care if they actually live in a "poor house", but they need to get all able bodied recipients working.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

Here in Texas, folks getting ANF are expected to work at least 20 hours a week in either job training or community service. I don't think that applies to folks only getting SNAP (foodstamps).


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

In principal, I agree with Ladycat. But in the real world if this were put into practice, you would have to set up a whole new series of bureacracy to supervise the system. So even if the welfare rolls dropped, the cost might not go down. But if an efficient system could be implemented that would utilize the untapped labor force of those receiving welfare payments, I could go for it. And if it were done right, it could provide on the job training and maybe some sort of certification of skills learned to where they would be more employable in the private sector.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

MO_cows said:


> In principal, I agree with Ladycat. But in the real world if this were put into practice, you would have to set up a whole new series of bureacracy to supervise the system. So even if the welfare rolls dropped, the cost might not go down. But if an efficient system could be implemented that would utilize the untapped labor force of those receiving welfare payments, I could go for it. And if it were done right, it could provide on the job training and maybe some sort of certification of skills learned to where they would be more employable in the private sector.


Not really a need for a whole new bureaucracy, just move a few of the ones we currently have working the welfare program over into the poor house with them. Let those social workers have a share in the profits earned by the lil workers instead of paying them a salary and watch the new system churn out products more efficiently than any computer can count to ten! They may just find how few truly needy folks there really are in this country!


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

ladycat said:


> Let's go back to the poorhouse system. If you need welfare, you have to live at a poorhouse, where you are required to work day labor if you are physically sound.
> 
> I can guarantee we'd filter out the scammers and multi-generational abusers pretty quick.


I understand the sentiment and frustration, but the poorhouse system was a hated abomination of a system that was (rightly) eliminated by our very conservative fore-bearers. Many towns couldn't afford them, the farm owner/overseers were either overworked themselves or unsuited to the task, the list goes on. The phase after poorhouses were the giant institutions that eventually became mental hospitals. Sometimes there are no good solutions, and designing a system around the small percentage who are the real scammers is not treating those who temporarily fall on hard times in a reasonable manner. If you can figure out a way to weed out the scammers (I kinda like the weekly drug test idea) more power to you.


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## VaFarmer (Mar 2, 2011)

I agree with the idea of a least serving some public service each wk, whats wrong with having welfare folks picking up trash, cutting grass, maybe even digging ditches. It worked for building the Blue Ridge Parkway during the depresion. Someone recieving a free ride it might do them some good and increase selfworth.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Hand them a broom and tell them to sweep everything from there home to the welfare office. get them off there ----- and work.


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## sevenmmm (Mar 1, 2011)

ladycat said:


> Let's go back to the poorhouse system. If you need welfare, you have to live at a poorhouse, where you are required to work day labor if you are physically sound.
> 
> I can guarantee we'd filter out the scammers and multi-generational abusers pretty quick.


Good idea. How about a list of actions these people could do? Or would do? Or are capable of doing?

Otherwise, the money system might not stay afloat long enough to make the change...


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## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

I know the unions would go ape over this but, in these times of economic stress, how about putting these people to work doing labor jobs that the cities and towns don't have the money to do Sanitation, road crews etc


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## sirquack (Feb 18, 2009)

Cleaning of all sorts. In Iowa, they could not necessarily do outside work all winter, but they could do state park clean up, waterway clean up. Maintenance on city properties and grounds. 
In the winter, hand them a bucket and some water and have them wash the inside of windows and take out the trash from the various containers in the skywalks. 
There are plenty of menial tasks that they could accomplish with some limited training. They want to close the library one day a week to save people costs, let the folks who are getting state money work those hours. How about working at the public works? I am sure United Way and it's various organizations would love to have volunteers, maybe even where the recipients kids are going free of charge. I work for a large employer who provides employee volunteers regularly and we have had to turn some opportunities away since we don't have the number of volunteers needed. I am betting, on the job training, and some time doing something productive would serve a better cause that no doing much to earn free money.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

As long as the goverment is paying these people to work or not to work, then the tax payer is carrying the burden.
They need to be retrained to do some thing. So they can pay into the system, sooner or later.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

treasureacres said:


> I don't care if they actually live in a "poor house", but they need to get all able bodied recipients working.


You don't care if they're able minded? Do you folks want to work with a schizophrenic who isn't on their meds? I know I wouldn't want to, and for many mentally or developmentally disabled people or those with mental health issues, living independently (i.e. not in a group home) is as much as they can handle. 

Stereotypes abound, but the simple truth is that an awful lot of the unltra poor have various mental or developmental problems and punishing them for that seems fairly pointless (and cruel) to me. 

I guess bullying doesn't end when we graduate from high school. :smack


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

SquashNut said:


> As long as the goverment is paying these people to work or not to work, then the tax payer is carrying the burden.
> They need to be retrained to do some thing. So they can pay into the system, sooner or later.


Yes, the tax payer would still be paying them, but if they realize they will have to work for it, they may decide they would rather choose what type of work they want to do and get out of the system altogether.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

chamoisee said:


> You don't care if they're able minded? Do you folks want to work with a schizophrenic who isn't on their meds? I know I wouldn't want to, and for many mentally or developmentally disabled people or those with mental health issues, living independently (i.e. not in a group home) is as much as they can handle.
> 
> Stereotypes abound, but the simple truth is that an awful lot of the unltra poor have various mental or developmental problems and punishing them for that seems fairly pointless (and cruel) to me.
> 
> I guess bullying doesn't end when we graduate from high school. :smack


I'm sure there are some that are unable to work due to physical of mental disabilities, but there are also many that are able to work but have been raised to believe the government owes them.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Interesting ideas to a complex problem. 
Sending welfare checks to Crack houses doesn't seem to be the answer. In theroy, the churrches could do a better job getting them the groceries they need, with a healthy dose of work and moral guidence.
I overheard a guy say the homeless people in Hawaii are very lucky, sleeping on the beach in perfect weather.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> You don't care if they're able minded? Do you folks want to work with a schizophrenic who isn't on their meds? I know I wouldn't want to, and for many mentally or developmentally disabled people or those with mental health issues, living independently (i.e. not in a group home) is as much as they can handle.
> 
> Stereotypes abound, but the simple truth is that an awful lot of the unltra poor have various mental or developmental problems and punishing them for that seems fairly pointless (and cruel) to me.
> 
> I guess bullying doesn't end when we graduate from high school. :smack


I don't get it how did you get that from what she said? I sure don't see where she said any one should work with mental patients.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

"Able-bodied" implies that if a person has a sound body, they should be working full time. 

Unfortunately, an awful lot of poor people are poor in part because they are struggling with a mental or developmental disability.....and not all people with such a condition are "mental patients". They are often able bodied but either unable to work due to coping, inability, etc or because most people would rather hire and work with a person who is not challenged in this way. 

These disabilities aren't always visible to the outsider and nobody should have to walk around with a label on their forehead that says something like "Hi, I'm XXXX and I have bipolar disorder to such a severe degree that I can't work".


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> "Able-bodied" implies that if a person has a sound body, they should be working full time.
> 
> Unfortunately, an awful lot of poor people are poor in part because they are struggling with a mental or developmental disability.....and not all people with such a condition are "mental patients". They are often able bodied but either unable to work due to coping, inability, etc or because most people would rather hire and work with a person who is not challenged in this way.
> 
> These disabilities aren't always visible to the outsider and nobody should have to walk around with a label on their forehead that says something like "Hi, I'm XXXX and I have bipolar disorder to such a severe degree that I can't work".


Nobody should have to keep paying for the able bodied not to work either.
there are handi capped people who are proud to do what ever they can to get by and we have people that are of sound mind and body living off the system. There are people right here in theis area that are on food stamps and welfare because they are over weight, and i am not talking lap-band over weight either. We either need to stop this or we won't be able to help any one.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

Don't forget sometimes people who work full time still qualify for help from SNAP or such too.... depends on the situation...


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

ne prairiemama said:


> Don't forget sometimes people who work full time still qualify for help from SNAP or such too.... depends on the situation...


people will never understand we just don't have enough to go around, so we need to make sure what we have is going to those who really need the help. just because you qualify doesn't mean we should really be giving it out.
The welfare system has become to generous if you ask me.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

I don't think you understand the Idaho welfare system, Squashnut. 

You can only get cash assistance for two years *lifetime, counting any received in any other state.* 

In order to get food stamps, you have to be working, going to school, or enrolled in a program they run that helps you to get employed. There are work requirements.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

chamoisee said:


> You don't care if they're able minded? Do you folks want to work with a schizophrenic who isn't on their meds? I know I wouldn't want to, and for many mentally or developmentally disabled people or those with mental health issues, living independently (i.e. not in a group home) is as much as they can handle.
> 
> Stereotypes abound, but the simple truth is that an awful lot of the unltra poor have various mental or developmental problems and punishing them for that seems fairly pointless (and cruel) to me.
> 
> I guess bullying doesn't end when we graduate from high school. :smack



Dear God, don't allow me to judge until I've walked a mile in their shoes.

Think about the you who are so quick to point fingers.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

You can't get cash assistance in Nebraska without both parents working/schooling or doing one of their programs to get work chamoisee. sounds similar to there.

SN do you think if a job is sent overseas and a father gets a new one but it pays way less and has way less hours because thats all he can find/get there should be no help?


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

An aside: In the town where I grew up, there is still a road called "Poor Farm". Anyway, it must have truly been a poor farm, it's up on a rocky ledge with almost no topsoil...I used to wonder what they'd tried to farm up there...


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Many communities had a "Poor Farm" Old folks that couldn't keep up their bills, share croppers that failed to die, just got too old to earn their keep ended up there.

Also, State Hospitals, imprisoned mentally ill and mentally retarted and managed to work them in field work, huge gardens and dairies and be mostly self-supporting.

Social Security, medication and Adult Foster Homes ruined all that.

Google Traverse City State Hospital, Newberry State Hospital, Ionia Home for the Criminally Insane.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

ne prairiemama said:


> You can't get cash assistance in Nebraska without both parents working/schooling or doing one of their programs to get work chamoisee. sounds similar to there.
> 
> SN do you think if a job is sent overseas and a father gets a new one but it pays way less and has way less hours because thats all he can find/get there should be no help?


No, the goverment has way over stepped it's bounds. All you have to do is look at our national debt to know that.
There was a time when families took care of their own. A father worked 2 jobs and a mother took in sewing to make ends meet. Now we give welfare money to people who spend it on big screen tvs and sell their food stamps.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

I think most humans tend to be conservative ... I don't mean in politically, but in the sense of risk-adverse. Think, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." It seems if you give people a small amount of money, just enough to get by without starving (and especially if you demand little of them in return), they'll scrape along the bottom indefinitely, without making much effort to improve their situation. 

I'm not troubled that welfare recipients receive so much, but rather that so many are willing to settle for so little. And idleness rots the soul ... study after study has shown prolonged unemployment causes skills to atrophy while physical and mental health declines. 

"A meager stipend for little or no work" seems to be the magic formula that keeps people trapped. If you turn the dial in one direction or the other, you'll get different results. Give people less than they need to survive, and they'll get off their duffs and do something to help themselves (very few are content to starve quietly). Make them work arduously for a miserable pittance, and they'll be motivated to try to improve their lot (or at least create a better legacy for their children). 

I guess that's where the workhouse comes in. Surely there are some folks so hopelessly addled that they really wouldn't be able to survive independently, but I'd guess the majority, given the choice of toiling away in a workhouse or on their own, would choose the latter. And while not everyone who starts down the road to success reaches his or her destination, I'd guess most end up better off than they would have had they not begun the journey.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> I think most humans tend to be conservative ... I don't mean in politically, but in the sense of risk-adverse. Think, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." It seems if you give people a small amount of money, just enough to get by without starving (and especially if you demand little of them in return), they'll scrape along the bottom indefinitely, without making much effort to improve their situation.
> 
> I'm not troubled that welfare recipients receive so much, but rather that so many are willing to settle for so little. And idleness rots the soul ... study after study has shown prolonged unemployment causes skills to atrophy while physical and mental health declines.
> 
> ...


This is what concerns me the most, yes. people think they should take the help becuse this or that happens. They are not programed to think any more, that they should do more for them selves. it's sad really.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

ladycat said:


> Let's go back to the poorhouse system. If you need welfare, you have to live at a poorhouse, where you are required to work day labor if you are physically sound.
> 
> I can guarantee we'd filter out the scammers and multi-generational abusers pretty quick.


Will their be t-bones and lobsters, unlimited alchol, cigarettes, pot, meth and other goodies at the po'house? What about unlimited sex without consequences? Big screen tv's, comfy couches, satellite tv, ipads, ipods, and never a word about work?

I think you'd have to shoot some of these welfare leeches before they'd ever give up their entitlements....

Cut off the welfare, and after a period of gnashing of teeth, and millions of dead, it would indeed end.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

texican said:


> Will their be t-bones and lobsters, unlimited alchol, cigarettes, pot, meth and other goodies at the po'house? What about unlimited sex without consequences? Big screen tv's, comfy couches, satellite tv, ipads, ipods, and never a word about work?


You have just about talked me into it. How about a new car, got to have something to ride around in.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

pancho said:


> You have just about talked me into it. How about a new car, got to have something to ride around in.


Folks loading their trunks down, with food [bought on the "Lone Star Card" that I, a working man, cannot afford, driving cars and trucks better than mine, tees me off. Of course, my truck is 14 years old, and just now getting broke in.

I know, I'm just a grumpy gus, in the bitter clinger club, but doesn't it bother anyone else, that someone on welfare drives a newer vehicle than you do, eat the best food, have free housing, medical care, and walking around money?

Welfare should never approach comfortable... it should be a miserable existence, that one would want to leave, at the first moment possible. Make it comfortable, and the vast majority will never want to leave... indeed, they'll lead their children, grandchildren, and greats into the same comforticity.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

texican said:


> Folks loading their trunks down, with food [bought on the "Lone Star Card" that I, a working man, cannot afford, driving cars and trucks better than mine, tees me off. Of course, my truck is 14 years old, and just now getting broke in.
> 
> I know, I'm just a grumpy gus, in the bitter clinger club, but doesn't it bother anyone else, that someone on welfare drives a newer vehicle than you do, eat the best food, have free housing, medical care, and walking around money?
> 
> Welfare should never approach comfortable... it should be a miserable existence, that one would want to leave, at the first moment possible. Make it comfortable, and the vast majority will never want to leave... indeed, they'll lead their children, grandchildren, and greats into the same comforticity.


I know just how you feel.
I belong to the same club and the older I get the more grumpy I get. 
So far it really hasn't mattered how I feel about anything but I will give anyone some free advise. Some think the price is right.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

texican said:


> Will their be t-bones and lobsters, unlimited alchol, cigarettes, pot, meth and other goodies at the po'house? What about unlimited sex without consequences? Big screen tv's, comfy couches, satellite tv, ipads, ipods, and never a word about work?


Wow. I don't have or do any of that. My old couch was free, no TV at all, no i-anythings, no substance abuse, never eaten a lobster in my life, never bought a T bone either. 

You guys are getting upset about something which is largely fictitious. Do you have proof that the people driving these nice new gashog vehicles are getting all this assistance you are talking about and that they don't work at all? 

I guess it would T me off too, but I never see that here. It might exist, but it surely isn't common enough to be noticeable.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

chamoisee said:


> Wow. I don't have or do any of that. My old couch was free, no TV at all, no i-anythings, no substance abuse, never eaten a lobster in my life, never bought a T bone either.
> 
> You guys are getting upset about something which is largely fictitious. Do you have proof that the people driving these nice new gashog vehicles are getting all this assistance you are talking about and that they don't work at all?
> 
> I guess it would T me off too, but I never see that here. It might exist, but it surely isn't common enough to be noticeable.


You are located in Idaho. I imagine there is a lot going on that you have never seen. Just because you have never seen it does not make it fictitious.
Just do a search on food stamp fraud. You will have to leave this site and do a search. What you learn might surprise you. Spend an hour or two reading the results of your search and come back and tell us what you found out.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> Wow. I don't have or do any of that. My old couch was free, no TV at all, no i-anythings, no substance abuse, never eaten a lobster in my life, never bought a T bone either.
> 
> You guys are getting upset about something which is largely fictitious. Do you have proof that the people driving these nice new gashog vehicles are getting all this assistance you are talking about and that they don't work at all?
> 
> I guess it would T me off too, but I never see that here. It might exist, but it surely isn't common enough to be noticeable.


No, it is not fictionous, what planet are you living on?

I couldn't even count the number of welfare mothers that have live in boy freinds living with them and eating their kids food stamp groceries, or the couples who are getting pregnant just to get welfare..


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

ladycat said:


> Let's go back to the poorhouse system. If you need welfare, you have to live at a poorhouse, where you are required to work day labor if you are physically sound.
> 
> I can guarantee we'd filter out the scammers and multi-generational abusers pretty quick.


Scammers would just pretend they couldn't work. No better.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

SquashNut said:


> No, it is not fictitious, what planet are you living on?
> 
> I couldn't even count the number of welfare mothers that have live in boy friends living with them and eating their kids food stamp groceries, or the couples who are getting pregnant just to get welfare..


Unless you have helped them fill out their applications, you really do not know if their boyfriends are part of their household.......

At any rate, now you want to change the target. I think that the scenario Texican is describing is fictitious, especially for Idaho, especially since cash help is minimal and limited to *two years lifetime including cash assistance received in other states*. 

I have never met anyone who stated they were getting pregnant to increase their benefits. Anywhere. And I have been around a lot....a LOT. I am not an armchair expert, I've actually lived on the streets and I have been around an awful lot of poor people. The thing that ticked me off was the number of dogs these people often had...LARGE dogs. Sorry folks, but if you are on the dole, you shouldn't have 8 bog dogs living in your house. I guess dogs are free companionship...a lot of folks said that their dogs were the only true friends they had. But eight of them??? Eight? 

So I have seen things that I haven't liked...people buying cartons and cartons of cigarettes....lots of junk food at the first of the month and then running completely out of food at the end, and the same sort of thing with the dog food. But still. People having babies specifically to get more welfare? Never heard of anyone saying that. People having babies because they didn't use contraception? Yes, all the time. And the kind of lavish lifestyle Texican described? I have never seen anything remotely approaching that.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2011)

chamoisee said:


> But still. People having babies specifically to get more welfare? Never heard of anyone saying that. And the kind of lavish lifestyle Texican described? I have never seen anything remotely approaching that.


You're not aware of multi-generational welfare families....


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

ladycat said:


> You're not aware of multi-generational welfare families....


Of course she is.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

chamoisee said:


> Wow. I don't have or do any of that. My old couch was free, no TV at all, no i-anythings, no substance abuse, never eaten a lobster in my life, never bought a T bone either.
> 
> You guys are getting upset about something which is largely fictitious. Do you have proof that the people driving these nice new gashog vehicles are getting all this assistance you are talking about and that they don't work at all?
> 
> I guess it would T me off too, but I never see that here. It might exist, but it surely isn't common enough to be noticeable.


I've had neighbors who have fit in this category. When asked why they don't get a job their response was, "Why should I, I get more by staying at home." This is what so many get upset about, not the ones that are down on their luck and need a little assistance till they get on their feet.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Sonshine said:


> I've had neighbors who have fit in this category. When asked why they don't get a job their response was, "Why should I, I get more by staying at home." This is what so many get upset about, not the ones that are down on their luck and need a little assistance till they get on their feet.


I saw the t-bones in the shopping cart. 
And your right I don't have a problem with those in need getting help. And people admit they have babies for the welfare and that if they get caught with said boy freind in the house they will get cut off. why would they say such things if it wasn't true.
Personally I wish people would keep it to them selves, but they have the urge to confess I guess.


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## homesteadingman (Mar 17, 2011)

I have a awesome idea...... I think we should "GET RID OF" the welfare system and thats coming from a family of welfare recipients. Honestly, people need to be forced to learn to do for themselves.


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## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

SquashNut said:


> No, the goverment has way over stepped it's bounds. All you have to do is look at our national debt to know that.
> There was a time when families took care of their own. A father worked 2 jobs and a mother took in sewing to make ends meet. Now we give welfare money to people who spend it on big screen tvs and sell their food stamps.


When was the last time you sent your sewing out? Or met a woman who could sew? 


I think they should run Food Stamps like WIC. You get a list of what you can buy and if you don't like it, too bad.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

KnowOneSpecial said:


> When was the last time you sent your sewing out? Or met a woman who could sew?
> 
> 
> I think they should run Food Stamps like WIC. You get a list of what you can buy and if you don't like it, too bad.


I don't sew, but I do have some other things I do that help with our income, even though i am a stay at home wife.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

ladycat said:


> You're not aware of multi-generational welfare families....


The ones I have seen are poor and used to being poor. They have never seen anyone who knew how to save or invest in anything and they have no concept of budgeting, so they are poor and they remain poor. It's all they know. 

Still, I didn't hear of anyone in those families talking about getting knocked up to get welfare. It was more a matter of screwing around in a somewhat random fashion with no thought to whether or not one might get pregnant. 

Part of that could be because in Idaho, the cash assistance is more of less nonexistent, as I have said a number of times already. The families I am thinking of that were multi generational were in the bible belt area...Mo, AR, OK, etc.


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## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

ladycat said:


> You're not aware of multi-generational welfare families....


I am very much aware of them, had too much interaction with that sort when I was in law enforcement. I think a partial solution would be to limit the number of children in a family that could get benefits. After the first child no increase in assistance unless mom comes in and gets her tubes tied after the second. 

Make her identify the sire, if she can, and if he doesn't pay support, a vasectomy is in order, if he sires multiple children he won't support, castration is next.

I know our law makers haven't the stones to even try anything like this, and if they did, the liberals and their liberal cohort judges wouldn't allow it. The American Commie Lawyers Union would file enough lawsuits to drown court dockets.

If nothing else the able bodied should be required to report every week day morning like workin' folks. Put em to work, half of them digging big holes and the rest following behind filling and tamping the holes. 

The same drill 8 hours a day over the same ground. The pay would be what they are currently milking the system for. Wouldn't be long before most decided that if they had to work they would find some something else to do.


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## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

SquashNut said:


> I don't sew, but I do have some other things I do that help with our income, even though i am a stay at home wife.


So if your husband lost his job you'd be able to pitch in enough to cover the bills, eh?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> Wow. I don't have or do any of that. My old couch was free, no TV at all, no i-anythings, no substance abuse, never eaten a lobster in my life, never bought a T bone either.


never ate a lobster? no substance abuse... ever? Wow! I like lobster, cant eat them anymore but I once rode a motorcycle all the way to Maine just to get a fresh one straight out of the pond! I have always been pretty careful about substance abuse though, seems a shame to spill any so I generally hold my glass with both hands. It works ok with power steering and an automatic,,,, but its a bugger to drive the old truck with the floor shift.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

KnowOneSpecial said:


> So if your husband lost his job you'd be able to pitch in enough to cover the bills, eh?


Yup, sure could. And then some.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> never ate a lobster? no substance abuse... ever? Wow! I like lobster, cant eat them anymore but I once rode a motorcycle all the way to Maine just to get a fresh one straight out of the pond! I have always been pretty careful about substance abuse though, seems a shame to spill any so I generally hold my glass with both hands. It works ok with power steering and an automatic,,,, but its a bugger to drive the old truck with the floor shift.


Heh. Nope, no lobster. I wouldn't have any idea how to cook the thing....would probably wreck the T bone, too. I once got half a leg of lamb for Christmas....$10 worth. I felt guilty about it at the time, because that was a lot, but it was Christmas after all. :-/

We do buy a LOT of produce though.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

chamoisee said:


> Wow. I don't have or do any of that. My old couch was free, no TV at all, no i-anythings, no substance abuse, never eaten a lobster in my life, never bought a T bone either.
> 
> You guys are getting upset about something which is largely fictitious. Do you have proof that the people driving these nice new gashog vehicles are getting all this assistance you are talking about and that they don't work at all?
> 
> I guess it would T me off too, but I never see that here. It might exist, but it surely isn't common enough to be noticeable.


I see it every single time I work at my part time job at the grocery store (15-18 hrs a week) on top of the normal 40 ... 
every night I work- Mom's with nails done, on their Iphone, saying oh we are outta town right now coming thru line with 4 hoagies, 4 redbulls 2 mt dews and 3 packs of oreos- and then telling her 2 sons " now you have something to munch on... go get a redbox movie and here is 2 dollars for a lottery ticket" with her big olde diamond ring~ hands me the Food stamp card

A guy in his hipster skinny jeans, Polo button down shirt, banana republic loafers, buying ice cream and soda and hittin the redbox for movies ~hands me the Food Stamp card

The young college aged girl in her fashionable pea coat, high heeled cowboy boots (boy did I covet them standing in my 35 cent good will pants ringing her up)and a dooney and burke purse, nails done-buying all organic food and her fancy snotty attitude that I better pack those reusable bags right~ hands me the Food Stamp card....

I love my pt job- but these people and all the ones who can not speak a lick of English and use the food stamp card are gonna be the death of me at the job!
So I have proof- I see it 2-3 nights a week- constantly...


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

If a person cannot see abuse of food stamps it is because they choose to ignore it. It is out there in the open for anyone that will open their eyes.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> Heh. Nope, no lobster. I wouldn't have any idea how to cook the thing....would probably wreck the T bone, too. I once got half a leg of lamb for Christmas....$10 worth. I felt guilty about it at the time, because that was a lot, but it was Christmas after all. :-/
> 
> We do buy a LOT of produce though.


Ya just drop him in a pot of cold water, bring it to a boil.... when hes red all over ya eat the rascal.... some yummy stuff right there! Dipping the meat in a bowl of melted butter as you break it apart in bite sized pieces makes it all the more yummy. A Tbone is a whole nuther thing... I like to heat up the grill good, drop the Tbone on there for 5 to 6 minutes depending upon thickness.... then turn it over for another 5 to 6 minutes, pull it off the grill and serve. We have been getting lucky here lately, have scored quite a few tbones for 2 bucks a pound. Cant go wrong with that price.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Sounds like youall are ready for some drastic welfare reform. Well, Newt's you man.
http://www.drpolitics.com/articles/residential_academies.htm

Instead of sending food stamps and welfare checks to Crack houses, put the moms on the street and the kids in an orphanage. 

Michigan's Gov Snyder has placed a 4 year cap on welfare. Might be a good time to get that Criminal Justice degree. Seems likely they will be hiring more Police and Prison Guards in Michigan in a few years.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Becka03 said:


> I see it every single time I work at my part time job at the grocery store (15-18 hrs a week) on top of the normal 40 ...
> every night I work- Mom's with nails done, on their Iphone, saying oh we are outta town right now coming thru line with 4 hoagies, 4 redbulls 2 mt dews and 3 packs of oreos- and then telling her 2 sons " now you have something to munch on... go get a redbox movie and here is 2 dollars for a lottery ticket" with her big olde diamond ring~ hands me the Food stamp card
> 
> A guy in his hipster skinny jeans, Polo button down shirt, banana republic loafers, buying ice cream and soda and hittin the redbox for movies ~hands me the Food Stamp card
> ...


Those folks are likely on welfare, but they could have bought the card. I don't know how they work it, but it is common to sell food stamps for 50 cents on the dollar. The needy can use the cash for drugs and the immoral increase their buying power.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

we need to do something like Cooking classes and only giving actual ingredients - no more buying 2 foot long subs at a grocery store and redbull- or Mt dew and a premade tuna sandwich... seriously- teach them how to make a tunafish sandwich! give them eggs, flour sugar,coffee,yeast,allow fruit and veggies...some meat for the month- I bet they make it last- or - Gasp- the get and find work....


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

haypoint said:


> Sounds like youall are ready for some drastic welfare reform. Well, Newt's you man.
> http://www.drpolitics.com/articles/residential_academies.htm
> 
> Instead of sending food stamps and welfare checks to Crack houses, put the moms on the street and the kids in an orphanage.
> ...


So you suggest rather than spend what we have to get people off welfare, we turn them into crimanals. is that what Clintons welfare reforms did?


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

pancho said:


> If a person cannot see abuse of food stamps it is because they choose to ignore it. It is out there in the open for anyone that will open their eyes.


While I am sure that food stamp fraud exists, I would like to point out a few unfair assumptions that have been made about me... I have never been on foodstamps or any other kind of government assistance. (I don't begrudge those who need it, but I have been blessed and haven't had to avail myself of the system.)

*Assumption #1) Every non-white person is getting foodstamps-*I was young when I got married (and probably looked even younger than my age). Everytime I shopped at a particular grocery store, the cashiers would try to tell me that I couldn't get the items on the conveyor belt because they weren't allowed by the WIC program. The store was the closest one to us, but I eventually stopped shopping there because it happened every week, despite my complaints to management.

Something similar happened to me in the last 6 months or so. Hubby and I stopped at the grocery store on our way home from work to purchase subs for dinner. While we were there, I reminded him to pick up several 2 liter bottles of soda. Wegmans grocery store is the only one in our area that sells diet store brand soda in lots of flavors. I asked hubby to grab 10 bottles since it was on sale. He is the only one in the house that drinks soda. 

There was a small group of people that were a little further down the aisle as he selected the flavors that he wanted. I became aware of them glancing in our direction and overheard them saying something along the lines of, 'They shouldn't be allowed to buy stuff like that.' I tried to keep an open mind as we passed them but as we turned the cart toward the next aisle to buy chips to go with our subs, I could feel them still watching us. Instead of scrutinizing what was in our cart, they really should have been scrutinizing their own lack of manners. They made an assumption about us based upon the contents of our grocery cart. 

*Assumption #2) Not everyone with a benefit card is the owner of it-*I used to work for the state many years ago. One of my duties was to shop for people with developmental disabilities. I would have to take their benefit cards to buy foods that they could prepare for themselves. Many of my clients/consumers were unable to cook from scratch, but were proud of their (limited) ability to fend for themselves.

*Assumption #3) Just because there are convenience foods in the cart doesn't mean that someone is lazy or that foodstamps are being used inappropriately.* Some people are unable to cook due to disabilities. It would be unsafe for them to do so. Also some areas are so inundated with homeless families that they are being housed in cheap motels. They don't have access to stoves for cooking and many don't have access to microwaves. 

Unless you know the people involved, you don't have the full story and there could be many factors as to why assistance is needed. I'm glad that food stamps are available to help those that need them and that our society provides a safety net to catch people when they fall upon hard times.


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## snake35 (Jan 24, 2011)

You have convinced me to sign up for welfare and food stamps. I want a piece of the good life too. No more deer meat and homemade biscuits from now on it will be shrimp, lobster and soda pop for me and mine!


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Yes, but when my DH is offered food stamp cards for 50 cents on the dollar on a weekly basis, what is a person to think. Or when some one you know brags to you while standing in the store that she is buying t-bones with her food stamp card that includes some that belong to some one who is no longer living in their house, or that some one tells you their sister regularly buys half their foods stamps every month. 
I could tell you lots more, like the store that sells groceries on the food stamp card and then refunds the cash back to their customers. All of that is going on, and more.


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## Home Harvest (Oct 10, 2006)

chamoisee said:


> Unless you have helped them fill out their applications, you really do not know if their boyfriends are part of their household.......
> 
> At any rate, now you want to change the target. I think that the scenario Texican is describing is fictitious, especially for Idaho, especially since cash help is minimal and limited to *two years lifetime including cash assistance received in other states*.
> 
> ...


It must be tough living in Idaho. Too bad the tough love theme doesn't travel. Here in PA I personally know families who have been on assistance for decades. What is the state supposed to do...cut off someone "in need"? I'd love to know how Idaho does that. One guy I know has been on disability and unable to work for 20 years, but he has a large garden and hunts deer, and owns a nicer bass boat than I could ever afford. He did complain about how much time he spends at the Access office doing paperwork with the caseworker. Life is tough.

As far as kids...yes, a friend of my daughter's, a 23 year old girl, went off birth control because an older relative of hers told her how much more assistance she would get with 3 kids than with 2. It's all online. The tables are there to see. 

My daughter makes $8.25 an hour as assistant manager of a CVS, and her friend takes home more in assistance. She is trying to tell my daughter to sign up. I told her she should. I don't believe in any of this, but I didn't create it. My taxes pay for it, so my daughter should benefit, at least with the food stamps part. Apparently it's very easy. Anyone meeting certain very liberal salary limits can receive food stamps. No time limit. You get them until you make too much money, period.

Great system, eh?


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> While I am sure that food stamp fraud exists, I would like to point out a few unfair assumptions that have been made about me... I have never been on foodstamps or any other kind of government assistance. (I don't begrudge those who need it, but I have been blessed and haven't had to avail myself of the system.)
> 
> *Assumption #1) Every non-white person is getting foodstamps-* <SNIP>
> 
> ...


I so agree with you, and will add a few.

Assumption #4) People getting food stamps don't _really_ need them. (They could get a better job, or a second job, or handle their money better).

Assumption #5) There is no hunger in this country.

Assumption #6) Most/all black people on welfare are /too lazy to work/on drugs/committing fraud/working the system/whatever...

Assumption #7) All illegal aliens are on welfare.

I could probably think of more if I tried. I've seen every side of the issue, and I've encountered every opinion of the issue.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

ladycat said:


> I so agree with you, and will add a few.
> 
> Assumption #4) People getting food stamps don't _really_ need them. (They could get a better job, or a second job, or handle their money better).
> 
> ...


No one is saying every one is abusing the system, but I beleive it is enough that it is not allowing us to help those who really need the help. That is why we do have some people in this country that still need help. And a big part of the reson we have to borrow so much.
I truley beleive is we stop the abuse we can stop the kids from being hungry in theis country. Why should some able bodied person get food stamps to waste and kids and the elderly get less than enough help?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

One out of seven Americans is on food stamps.
One out of four American children are on food stamps.
42% of single mothers are on food stamps.

Seems like a lot of people on food stamps. Wonder if there is just a few that might be cheating?


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2011)

SquashNut said:


> Why should some able bodied person get food stamps to waste and kids and the elderly get less than enough help?


That makes me mad, too.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Just found out I qualify for food stamps. My income for this year is zero so I qualify.
Now I will have to decide if I should buy T bones or sell the food stamps for $.50 on the dollar.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

SquashNut said:


> So you suggest rather than spend what we have to get people off welfare, we turn them into crimanals. is that what Clintons welfare reforms did?


What I'm saying is that a system that supplies the rent, heat and food for a Crack House isn't working the way the taxpayer expects it to. 

The only way we can insure the kids get fed and cared for is to reinstitute orphanages. The moms can fend for themselves. Those that want to raise their kids can work to support them and stay off the taxpayer's dole.

But, if you shut it down after 4 years for everyone, what happens to the kids?

Take a defective system that has been sending tax money from the suburbs to the inner cities in monthly welfare checks since LBJ was running (ruining) this country, shut it down and I'm thinking the poor, uneducated, dependent subsidized housing resident will hop a cab and go out to the suburbs to get their due, directly from the source.:run:


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## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

haypoint said:


> Take a defective system that has been sending tax money from the suburbs to the inner cities in monthly welfare checks since LBJ was running (ruining) this country, shut it down and I'm thinking the poor, uneducated, dependent subsidized housing resident will hop a cab and go out to the suburbs to get their due, directly from the source.:run:


You mean hop a cab and take what they think is their due? They are due nothing if they are able bodied, in my opinion.

And the nonsense really got started with FDR. He did well as a wartime President, other than that he was one of, if not the worst, we have ever had.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

haypoint said:


> What I'm saying is that a system that supplies the rent, heat and food for a Crack House isn't working the way the taxpayer expects it to.
> 
> The only way we can insure the kids get fed and cared for is to reinstitute orphanages. The moms can fend for themselves. Those that want to raise their kids can work to support them and stay off the taxpayer's dole.
> 
> ...


I don't think the Mom should even get it for 4 years if they are not working on getting off it during the first year. going to school or some kind of training. 4 years is too long. The unemployment is getting way too long too.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

haypoint said:


> \
> Take a defective system that has been sending tax money from the suburbs to the inner cities in monthly welfare checks since LBJ was running (ruining) this country, shut it down and I'm thinking the poor, uneducated, dependent subsidized housing resident will hop a cab and go out to the suburbs to get their due, directly from the source.:run:


There was a time in this country that we put extortionists in prison.... now we just pay them so they wont rob us. Yep, thats a winner system. :shrug:


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

SquashNut said:


> Yes, but when my DH is offered food stamp cards for 50 cents on the dollar on a weekly basis, what is a person to think. Or when some one you know brags to you while standing in the store that she is buying t-bones with her food stamp card that includes some that belong to some one who is no longer living in their house, or that some one tells you their sister regularly buys half their foods stamps every month.
> I could tell you lots more, like the store that sells groceries on the food stamp card and then refunds the cash back to their customers. All of that is going on, and more.


I can tell you which store that *isn't*, having worked there. 

As for the rest of it, if what you say is true, report them. They are abusing a system that was designed to help.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

65284 said:


> You mean hop a cab and take what they think is their due? They are due nothing if they are able bodied, in my opinion.
> 
> And the nonsense really got started with FDR. He did well as a wartime President, other than that he was one of, if not the worst, we have ever had.


As it is, Metro Detroit accounts for about 65% of all the felonies committed in Michigan. Cut off their welfare, and those that aren't already in the joint will take what the government has taught them they deserve directly from you'all rich folks. 

When you live a couple miles from anyone that holds a real job and go a few generations on the dole, you expect that when you cut off the gravy train, they'll either grab a lunch bucket and go to work or curl up and starve? 

I've talked to hundreds of criminals that realize with their limited IQ a low paying job is all they'll hold. With that pay they can drive a junker car or live in a run down apartment. Not both. But snatch a purse hear and there and drive a car to a chop shop now and again, they can just get by, a car and a room to sleep in. If they get caught, no worries, three hots and a cot, a weight room and a library.

Welfare is a pressure relief valve. 

The Prison system, and many inner cities, has a large black Muslum population. That's fertile ground for terriorism.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> I can tell you which store that *isn't*, having worked there.
> 
> As for the rest of it, if what you say is true, report them. They are abusing a system that was designed to help.


I wouldnt dare report the abusers! if they found out who turned them in... they would find me and rob me personally... or worse! See haypoints post directly above. we gots to keep paying the ransom.... month after month after month


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

haypoint said:


> As it is, Metro Detroit accounts for about 65% of all the felonies committed in Michigan. Cut off their welfare, and those that aren't already in the joint will take what the government has taught them they deserve directly from you'all rich folks.
> 
> When you live a couple miles from anyone that holds a real job and go a few generations on the dole, you expect that when you cut off the gravy train, they'll either grab a lunch bucket and go to work or curl up and starve?


I dunno how it works up nawth.... but around my neck of the woods, ifn ya snatch an old ladies purse and run, yer likely to stop a quarter ounce of high speed lead with yer spine. If yer lucky enough to avoid that particular fate, the sheriff will be along directly and escort you to a nice warm place where the chow is fine, the coffees hot and you get to share a room with bubba...... and bubba hasnt seen a woman in a looooooooong time... 

Me? I dont fool with old ladies purses coz neither of the above prospects appeal to me.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Thank you Martian Chick for infusing this thread with a hint of sanity.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Ya just drop him in a pot of cold water, bring it to a boil.... when hes red all over ya eat the rascal.... some yummy stuff right there! Dipping the meat in a bowl of melted butter as you break it apart in bite sized pieces makes it all the more yummy. A Tbone is a whole nuther thing... I like to heat up the grill good, drop the Tbone on there for 5 to 6 minutes depending upon thickness.... then turn it over for another 5 to 6 minutes, pull it off the grill and serve. We have been getting lucky here lately, have scored quite a few tbones for 2 bucks a pound. Cant go wrong with that price.


But....both those things are expensive. :-/ I buy petite sirloin steak maybe once or twice a month, maybe a package of bacon a month and possibly 4-5 lbs of hamburger. We make soups and eat rice and beans and grits and fruit and stuff. Also don't have a grill.....I guess if I saw them for $2 a lb....are they that much better than the petite sirloin?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> But....both those things are expensive. :-/ I buy petite sirloin steak maybe once or twice a month, maybe a package of bacon a month and possibly 4-5 lbs of hamburger. We make soups and eat rice and beans and grits and fruit and stuff. Also don't have a grill.....I guess if I saw them for $2 a lb....are they that much better than the petite sirloin?


Yeppers, lobsters and TBones are both pricey, lobster especially, if you just walk in and buy them at regular retail prices. I watch for sales and managers specials... for steaks, not lobster... and occasionally score them for a couple bucks a lb.... about the same price as ground beef which I will not buy as a manager special. I have been known to get the butcher to bring his Marked down price even further down. not too long ago I got him to cut the 2 dollar a pound specials down to a dollar... so I bought all he had, brought them home and stuckem in the freezer. My Yvonne gets a bit embarrassed when I haggle prices like that in the store.... but she does like the steaks! And yes... there is a world of difference twixt a TBone and a sirloin. I would say about the same difference as between a bowl of cold cornmeal mush with no milk, and a good pot roast. We eat a lot of rice and taters and beans around here too, along with cornbread and greens and other veggies... most of which we grow. But occasionally I like to move up a notch. Fresh steamed asparagus sittin next to a properly grilled TBone is a fine thing. I also drink the cheap brands of liquor most of the time.... but I do have a couple bottles of the "good stuff" for special moments.  We only live once, might as well get some of the gravy out of it or why bother working yer fingers to the bone?


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> But....both those things are expensive. :-/ I buy petite sirloin steak maybe once or twice a month, maybe a package of bacon a month and possibly 4-5 lbs of hamburger. We make soups and eat rice and beans and grits and fruit and stuff. Also don't have a grill.....I guess if I saw them for $2 a lb....are they that much better than the petite sirloin?


I don't see how you eat that well shopping at Bargain Giant.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

I have no idea what you are talking about. There is no Bargain Giant where I live.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about. There is no Bargain Giant where I live.


Really, I thought you worked there, I guess it changed it's name. Mitchel's Harvest FooD??


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

SquashNut said:


> I don't think the Mom should even get it for 4 years if they are not working on getting off it during the first year. going to school or some kind of training. 4 years is too long. The unemployment is getting way too long too.


In 4 years she could get a degree in something.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

pancho said:


> In 4 years she could get a degree in something.


I do agree that folks might be able to improve themselves while getting foodstamps and other benefits, but not everyone is college material and many would be best suited to other types of occupational training.


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> I do agree that folks might be able to improve themselves while getting foodstamps and other benefits, but not everyone is college material and many would be best suited to other types of occupational training.


Very true. Many welfare recipients I know and have known would never make it through the first week of college.

But most people can be trained to do *something*.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

One thing that I don't often see here at HT is the functional reality of government assistance. Back in the late 90's, I worked for a big company as a manager. I had a team of 20-30 employees at any given time. My employees were mostly single moms, a sprinkling of married women and 2 single men.

While the jobs paid decently for both part time and full time office work in our area, several of the single moms (and one married woman with 5 children) often had to leave to go to appointments. I really didn't have a lot of experience with what these working women had to go through in order to receive their benefits. It was a mess! 

Part Timer Susie (not her real name) would bring me a letter on a Monday stating that if she didn't show up for a recertification for her foodstamps on Wednesday at noon (middle of the work day) then she would lose her benefits. The appointment times were non-negotiable and there was no good excuse for missing one. I would have no choice but to let her leave. 

The following week, she'd bring a similar letter about a WIC appointment at 10am on Friday...one hour after her shift started. Two weeks after that would be an appointment for a new daycare intake because a single slot finally opened up at the center near her home, rather than the one that she was currently using across town (which required a transfer on the bus). Though only one of her two children could attend the new center, it would get her foot in the door so that she might be eligible to enroll the second child in the months to come. 

The next week might be a Section 8 appointment for inspection. You guessed it! Not much leeway in that... You miss the inspection and you lose the rent subsidy. She doesn't get a huge subsidy, just $175 each month for an apartment that runs $450 a month.Then there was the appointment to recertify for the government based health insurance. As part-timers, they weren't eligible for company sponsored insurance. Once they attained full time status, they would be eligible. Then there were the court cases for child support and custody which were not always initiated by them. (Dad might be seeking a reduction in support payments because he lost his job or something.)



If there was a wrinkle in mail delivery and you didn't get one of those appointment letters, your benefits were cut immediately, necessitating more appointments to cobble all of their benefit package back together. If I were looking to promote someone to full-time status, Part time Susie looks really unreliable on the surface, even if she is on time every day and never misses a day of work due to illness. The whole operational process wasn't really conducive to helping someone who was trying to better themselves. 

If I were to look for ways to eliminate waste, I would start by improving the basic delivery of services. Eliminate the multiple certification appointments or create ways that they can be done in the evening after work or via phone or internet. Paperwork can be faxed after the call/internet transaction takes place. Let one social working team handle all of the interactions with a particular group of clients. This would eliminate the multiple calls to a specific worker...Any worker should be able to access the records and provide service.

A parent that needs benefits shouldn't have to choose between their job or benefits. They should be able to have both. They shouldn't have to choose between foodstamps to feed their children or their chances for advancement into self-sustaining employment. That is counter-productive to the notion of giving folks a hand up.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

TheMartianChick said:


> I do agree that folks might be able to improve themselves while getting foodstamps and other benefits, but not everyone is college material and many would be best suited to other types of occupational training.


Yes. And not everyone is parent material either. Some might be best suited not having children, especially if other people have to pay the bill for their upkeep.


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2011)

chamoisee said:


> I have never met anyone who stated they were getting pregnant to increase their benefits. Anywhere.


I knew we'd had these discussions before.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?p=4821881#post4821881

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?p=4728402#post4728402

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?p=4681657#post4681657


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

SquashNut said:


> Really, I thought you worked there, I guess it changed it's name. Mitchel's Harvest FooD??


Mitchell's Harvest Foods was Mitchell's IGA before it was Harvest Foods. Before Mitch bought the store it was another kind of IGA. It has never been a Bargain Giant since I have lived here, and I have lived in that area longer than you have. It has been owned by Mitch's family since 1990 at least. 

That said, I don't live in Priest River anymore, but the foods I described to Yvonne's Hubby could be bought at Mitchell's.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

pancho said:


> Yes. And not everyone is parent material either. Some might be best suited not having children, especially if other people have to pay the bill for their upkeep.


I don't dispute your statement, but some people who used to be able to get by or even live well have been hit by the recession, too. If I lost my job or my husband left me, my household finances might become unstable.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

TheMartianChick said:


> I don't dispute your statement, but some people who used to be able to get by or even live well have been hit by the recession, too. If I lost my job or my husband left me, my household finances might become unstable.


Years ago there used to be something that helped people through the unstable times. Preparing. People used to prepare for these things and did not choose to live well for a while and go bust when times got hard. Now days too many people choose to live beyond their means and are not prepared when hard times hit. There will always be ups and downs in every person's life. Some people have decided to ride the good times and forget to prepare for the bad times. 

Not everyone needs a big house, new car, latest electronic gadget. Not everyone can afford them either even though they have them.

It isn't something people want to hear but if people will prepare the bad times seem to be much farther inbetween.

I started preparing a long time ago. Last december I quit my job. Absolutely no income for this year. My life is great. No problems and no worries. I was prepared.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

TheMartianChick said:


> I do agree that folks might be able to improve themselves while getting foodstamps and other benefits, but not everyone is college material and many would be best suited to other types of occupational training.


agreed, and college really isnt the end all and be all that many seem to think it is. There are lots of skills that can improve ones lot in life that do not require a college degree. Many of them can be learned by doing, and require little or no formal training. For example carpentry.... "pointy end of nail goes in first". Theres yer basic "training", once you have that down you can pick up the rest as you go... Or plumbing.... "which way does pee run down a pipe?" Once you figure out that important detail, the rest comes pretty easy.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

pancho said:


> Years ago there used to be something that helped people through the unstable times. Preparing. People used to prepare for these things and did not choose to live well for a while and go bust when times got hard. Now days too many people choose to live beyond their means and are not prepared when hard times hit. There will always be ups and downs in every person's life. Some people have decided to ride the good times and forget to prepare for the bad times.
> 
> Not everyone needs a big house, new car, latest electronic gadget. Not everyone can afford them either even though they have them.
> 
> ...


There are some things that you simply cannot prepare for, period.


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## mrpink (Jun 29, 2008)

TheMartianChick said:


> One thing that I don't often see here at HT is the functional reality of government assistance. Back in the late 90's, I worked for a big company as a manager. I had a team of 20-30 employees at any given time. My employees were mostly single moms, a sprinkling of married women and 2 single men.
> 
> While the jobs paid decently for both part time and full time office work in our area, several of the single moms (and one married woman with 5 children) often had to leave to go to appointments. I really didn't have a lot of experience with what these working women had to go through in order to receive their benefits. It was a mess!
> 
> ...


thank you.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

chamoisee said:


> There are some things that you simply cannot prepare for, period.


It is possible to prepare for anything. Sometimes your prepardness isn't enough but if you think you can't prepare you will always be needing some help.

Maybe you should try preparing for something before you decide it can't be done.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Um, like...if the Yellowstone super volcano goes off? No gardening or sun for quite a while....even if you manage not to be in the 600 mile radius of death surrounding it. 

All I can say is that the kind of over confidence you exhibit is born of not having encountered major crises.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> I can tell you which store that *isn't*, having worked there.
> 
> As for the rest of it, if what you say is true, report them. They are abusing a system that was designed to help.


It's not up to me to police a system, and it would do no good. When the system wants this kind of thing to happen.


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## mrpink (Jun 29, 2008)

SquashNut said:


> It's not up to me to police a system, and it would do no good. When the system wants this kind of thing to happen.


then why complain here about it if you are not willing to make a phone call to report it to some one that may be able to do something about it? people here surly can't do anything about it so for sure it does no good to complain here about it.
if its not your responsibility to report fraud whose is it?


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> Um, like...if the Yellowstone super volcano goes off? No gardening or sun for quite a while....even if you manage not to be in the 600 mile radius of death surrounding it.
> 
> All I can say is that the kind of over confidence you exhibit is born of not having encountered major crises.


I don't know people live through some pretty bad huricanes don't they, their preps have allowed the first responders to help others. In my opinion those who don't prepare are selfish in that respect. We should all do every thing we can to take care of our selves in any situation. And when possible have some thing on hand to help others too.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

chamoisee said:


> Um, like...if the Yellowstone super volcano goes off? No gardening or sun for quite a while....even if you manage not to be in the 600 mile radius of death surrounding it.
> 
> All I can say is that the kind of over confidence you exhibit is born of not having encountered major crises.


No, much better to give up , not prepare at all, and depend on others to help you out.

The first step to preparing is mental. If you give up before anything happens you will always be going through hard times. If you are prepared mentally you can handle almost anything.

Of course some people would rather let others prepare and depend on them for help.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

pancho said:


> No, much better to give up , not prepare at all, and depend on others to help you out.
> 
> The first step to preparing is mental. If you give up before anything happens you will always be going through hard times. If you are prepared mentally you can handle almost anything.
> 
> Of course some people would rather let others prepare and depend on them for help.


I think the hard times I have had in my life and beleive me what the OP has described is mild. Has made me stronger and given me more reason to be independent. If there is any one i know now that I want to depend on is myself. Every one else not so much.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

SquashNut said:


> I think the hard times I have had in my life and beleive me what the OP has described is mild. Has made me stronger and given me more reason to be independent. If there is any one i know now that I want to depend on is myself. Every one else not so much.


Much the same with me. I have learned quite a bit from hard times and mistakes made mostly by myself. Like you, I can depend on myself. I would much rather not depend on anyone else. I know what I am capable of doing.
Different people will describe hard times in many different ways. What is hard for some seems so simple to others. Hard times for some people would seem like a vacation to others.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

SquashNut said:


> I don't know people live through some pretty bad huricanes don't they, their preps have allowed the first responders to help others. In my opinion those who don't prepare are selfish in that respect. We should all do every thing we can to take care of our selves in any situation. And when possible have some thing on hand to help others too.


Um. You can live through a hurricane. What I have read says that if and when Yellowstone blows, everything within 600 miles is dead, pretty much instantly.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> Um. You can live through a hurricane. What I have read says that if and when Yellowstone blows, everything within 600 miles is dead, pretty much instantly.


 While it's true there are things you cann't live though, You can survive the rest, with a little preparation.
But since you cann't live through Yellowstone you just give up?
I am sorry But that is what I am hearing you say.
I know one thing I wouldn't depend on the goverment, Katrina for example.


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## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

The real problem is too many women having too many children out of wedlock! Often multiple children by multiple men, with no assurance of support of assistance from any of those men. 

Birth control seems to be an alien concept to a lot of folks today. Not putting all of the blame on women but they are the ones who make the, yes we will/no we won't do it, decision. And too often they say yes, or don't say no, and they along with the taxpayers, bear the burden of being a single mom.

Why so many engage in unprotected sex with men they know,or should know, will abandon them and their child/children has always been a great mystery to me.

The lowlifes that won't support the children they sire should be subjected to the harshest punishment, whack their nads, then at least they wouldn't make any more babies.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

chamoisee said:


> Um. You can live through a hurricane. What I have read says that if and when Yellowstone blows, everything within 600 miles is dead, pretty much instantly.


I don't live within 600 miles of yellowstone so I am pretty much prepared for that one also.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

pancho said:


> I don't live within 600 miles of yellowstone so I am pretty much prepared for that one also.


http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1869313,00.html

Don't be so sure. To be fair though, it is unlikely that Yellowstone will blow in our lifetimes. I guess we might have a chance if we fled to, say...New Zealand or some other very distant place.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

chamoisee said:


> http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1869313,00.html
> 
> Don't be so sure. To be fair though, it is unlikely that Yellowstone will blow in our lifetimes. I guess we might have a chance if we fled to, say...New Zealand or some other very distant place.


Insted of worrying about Yellowstone blowing why not prepare for more ordinary hard times. Like putting a few bucks back or beginning a survival food pantry or paying off all bills or not buying anything on credit.

There are many small hardships that people let turn into big hardships by not preparing in any way. Why spend so much time worrying and reading about Yellowstone and the like and more time getting prepared for minor daily hardships?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

pancho said:


> Insted of worrying about Yellowstone blowing why not prepare for more ordinary hard times. Like putting a few bucks back or beginning a survival food pantry or paying off all bills or not buying anything on credit.
> 
> There are many small hardships that people let turn into big hardships by not preparing in any way. Why spend so much time worrying and reading about Yellowstone and the like and more time getting prepared for minor daily hardships?


I think the point that you seem to miss, no matter what you prepare for, there are unexpected things that happen that you just couldn't prepare for. 
Say you work a job that is stable, but there are short lay-offs from time to time. So you save up a months wages. But then the engine blows on your car, the roof springs a leak and the company closes forever. You can't sell the car, you can't sell the house and you have only enough to live on for a month. Are you saying this person should have had $100,000 in savings under the mattress to "be prepared"?
That's not the world I live in.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

haypoint said:


> You can't sell the car, you can't sell the house and you have only enough to live on for a month. Are you saying this person should have had $100,000 in savings under the mattress to "be prepared"?
> That's not the world I live in.


If you only have enough to live for a month you are not prepared.
I am saying they could have prepared much more and would have more than enough for only one month.
If you only have enough to last one month if something happens, do not buy that car, do not buy that house. Before you start spending money that you don't have put some more back for emergencies.

Like I posted elsewhere. I haven't worked in over a year. Haven't made a single penny in over a year. I have two cars and a home completely paid for.
I have plenty of food to eat. I have money in the bank. I have clothes on my back.

I can see what one problem might be. If it takes $100,000 for you to live for over a month you might be overspending just a little.

Forgot to add. I have never collected unemployment, never recieved any food stamps, never asked another person for anything. I took the iniative to take care of myself by myself. I will not be a burden to society or anyone else. I am prepared.
Just can't understand why others do not do the same.


I am not special. If I am able to do this why can't others do the same thing?
I prepared. I didn't run out and buy things before I could afford them.

I will agree, that is not the world where that many people live in. My question is why not?


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

I think that the problem is, it has become illegal to be poor.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

postroad said:


> I think that the problem is, it has become illegal to be poor.


Not illegal just not a good idea, something to desire, or a good life plan.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

haypoint said:


> I think the point that you seem to miss, no matter what you prepare for, there are unexpected things that happen that you just couldn't prepare for.
> Say you work a job that is stable, but there are short lay-offs from time to time. So you save up a months wages. But then the engine blows on your car, the roof springs a leak and the company closes forever. You can't sell the car, you can't sell the house and you have only enough to live on for a month. Are you saying this person should have had $100,000 in savings under the mattress to "be prepared"?
> That's not the world I live in.


You guys are so cute the way you exagerate every thing. You make it sound so difficult. I think i would give up to if I beleived the way you all do.
But it just isn't that hard. Start by doing a budget and allowing so much a moth for the prep fund or pick up a can or 2 extra of soup. It doesn't have to be a big deal.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

SquashNut said:


> You guys are so cute the way you exagerate every thing. You make it sound so difficult. I think i would give up to if I beleived the way you all do.
> But it just isn't that hard. Start by doing a budget and allowing so much a moth for the prep fund or pick up a can or 2 extra of soup. It doesn't have to be a big deal.


Starting is the hard part. If a person starts it means they have changed their outlook on life. A person has to get things right in their mind first.
I can't do that is much easier than actually doing something.
Thinking they have to immediately to the top stops many.
Just take small steps. Don't expect out of life more than you put in it.
Just give it a try before saying it is impossible.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Well that is the problem with welfare isn't it, it takes peoples will to do for them selves.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

postroad said:


> I think that the problem is, it has become illegal to be poor.


Its not illegal to be poor... but it is a bit unhandy.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

pancho said:


> Starting is the hard part. If a person starts it means they have changed their outlook on life. *A person has to get things right in their mind first.*
> I can't do that is much easier than actually doing something.
> Thinking they have to immediately to the top stops many.
> Just take small steps. Don't expect out of life more than you put in it.
> Just give it a try before saying it is impossible.


Now I do agree with you but as I read the line in bold..... I could hear Struther Martins famous line from Cool Hand Luke: "Now what we have here..... is a failure.... to communicate.... " Poor ol Luke just couldnt seem to get his mind right....... even with all the best efforts of the guards and the warden himself. Some folks just aint gonna get it, no matter how much we try to help them.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

haypoint said:


> I think the point that you seem to miss, no matter what you prepare for, there are unexpected things that happen that you just couldn't prepare for.
> Say you work a job that is stable, but there are short lay-offs from time to time. So you save up a months wages. But then the engine blows on your car, the roof springs a leak and the company closes forever. You can't sell the car, you can't sell the house and you have only enough to live on for a month. Are you saying this person should have had $100,000 in savings under the mattress to "be prepared"?
> That's not the world I live in.


Nope, you fix that leak, and maybe paying attention to the oil level in that old car would have made it last a bit longer, and then not going on strike and busting the company mighta not been the smartest move your union boss ever made.... on your behalf of course.


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Its not illegal to be poor... but it is a bit unhandy.


No it is illegal. What do you think those building permits, septic systems, safety inspections for vehicles. restrictions on burning firewood or coal, child and family guidelines for persons living in a residence, livestock restrictions, etc, etc, etc are all about.

Society has added a lot of expense to maintaining a "normal " life.

No way no how realistically sustainable long term.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

postroad said:


> No it is illegal. What do you think those building permits, septic systems, safety inspections for vehicles. restrictions on burning firewood or coal, child and family guidelines for persons living in a residence, livestock restrictions, etc, etc, etc are all about.
> 
> .


Maybe I am missing something. Do these things only apply to poor people?
What is the cutoff?


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

pancho said:


> Maybe I am missing something. Do these things only apply to poor people?
> What is the cutoff?


My point is that to truly live poor is illegal. Modern society forces a certain level of materialism on its citizens.

A level that is not universally achievable in a natural system. Therefore society which makes the rules, is forced to subsidise the laggards.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

postroad said:


> No it is illegal. What do you think those building permits, septic systems, safety inspections for vehicles. restrictions on burning firewood or coal, child and family guidelines for persons living in a residence, livestock restrictions, etc, etc, etc are all about.
> 
> Society has added a lot of expense to maintaining a "normal " life.
> 
> No way no how realistically sustainable long term.


Hmmm, I have built myself several houses, no permits, I did get one septic permit, (it was easier to do that than listen to Yvonne's whining forever) have burnt a lot of wood for cooking and heat, not much coal though, its too durned expensive, I heat and cook with gas these days, its free right out of my own gas well... (and no permits for that either), and lots handier than cutting firewood. I keep cows and a fine dog and a bunch of cats now, but have had chickens, goats, geese, pigs, horses, and even a mule once..... without anyone complaining, raised 3 kids in everything from tents to school busses and shanties made out of scrap lumber.... Running water would have been nice... but golly, it just wasnt there... cept if you chased the kids up the hill from the spring... but even then they didnt "run" very fast and it didnt seem all that productive in the long run. You must live somewhere in some fancy neighborhood. BTW Whats a vehicle safety inspection?? :shrug:


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

last night I had a 20 something with nails done- 150 dollar jeans on,- Yes I know they were cause my sister in law has a pair, using her Iphone in line- buying shrimp, all the fixings for a nice cheese platter and was sooooo excited she told me that Starbucks now had Kcups! 75 dollars worth of pricey food in all- using- you guessed- food stamps- it is so hard not to feel irritated......


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Becka03 said:


> last night I had a 20 something with nails done- 150 dollar jeans on,- Yes I know they were cause my sister in law has a pair, using her Iphone in line- buying shrimp, all the fixings for a nice cheese platter and was sooooo excited she told me that Starbucks now had Kcups! 75 dollars worth of pricey food in all- using- you guessed- food stamps- it is so hard not to feel irritated......


How very nice of starbucks. I bet they are only doing it for the benefit of all the poor people.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Becka03 said:


> last night I had a 20 something with nails done- 150 dollar jeans on,- Yes I know they were cause my sister in law has a pair, using her Iphone in line- buying shrimp, all the fixings for a nice cheese platter and was sooooo excited she told me that Starbucks now had Kcups! 75 dollars worth of pricey food in all- using- you guessed- food stamps- it is so hard not to feel irritated......


Ok, I dont get out much, but I have at least heard of Star Bucks.... seems like they sell high priced coffee to yuppies with too much money, but whats a Kcup? :shrug:


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Ok, I dont get out much, but I have at least heard of Star Bucks.... seems like they sell high priced coffee to yuppies with too much money, but whats a Kcup? :shrug:


They are little cups that have one serving of coffee in them. You put them in a special (very expensive) coffee making machine that brews one cup of coffee. They come in multi packs in the grocery store, working out to around $1 - $1.50 or so per cup.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Becka03 said:


> last night I had a 20 something with nails done- 150 dollar jeans on,- Yes I know they were cause my sister in law has a pair, using her Iphone in line- buying shrimp, all the fixings for a nice cheese platter and was sooooo excited she told me that Starbucks now had Kcups! 75 dollars worth of pricey food in all- using- you guessed- food stamps- it is so hard not to feel irritated......


That qualifies as welfare abuse, thus is not really a good example. Although I think that girl was indeed a little over herself. Although, I can dress in $300 worth of clothing for only about $15 from some nice thrift store in silks and fine woolens.:thumb:


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Ok, I dont get out much, but I have at least heard of Star Bucks.... seems like they sell high priced coffee to yuppies with too much money, but whats a Kcup? :shrug:


Yeah I wanna know to. Is it bigger than a C cup or is it the other way, smaller?


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Hmmm, I have built myself several houses, no permits, I did get one septic permit, (it was easier to do that than listen to Yvonne's whining forever) have burnt a lot of wood for cooking and heat, not much coal though, its too durned expensive, I heat and cook with gas these days, its free right out of my own gas well... (and no permits for that either), and lots handier than cutting firewood. I keep cows and a fine dog and a bunch of cats now, but have had chickens, goats, geese, pigs, horses, and even a mule once..... without anyone complaining, raised 3 kids in everything from tents to school busses and shanties made out of scrap lumber.... Running water would have been nice... but golly, it just wasnt there... cept if you chased the kids up the hill from the spring... but even then they didnt "run" very fast and it didnt seem all that productive in the long run. You must live somewhere in some fancy neighborhood. BTW Whats a vehicle safety inspection?? :shrug:


I also flout the regulations. But the fact remains that I am flouting them.

Look what happened to an older man from a community east of myself.

http://www.pembinavalleyonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25028

http://www.pembinavalleyonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25378


In Manitoba a vehicle must pass a safety inspection in order to be registered. Not a bad idea but it has eliminated all those cheap vehicles that could be purchased for a few hundred dollars.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

postroad said:


> In Manitoba a vehicle must pass a safety inspection in order to be registered. Not a bad idea but it has eliminated all those cheap vehicles that could be purchased for a few hundred dollars.


We also have safety inspections here. Everyone knows where they can take a vehicle to get a sticker put on it. If you can drive it in and if you have the $5 or $6 it costs you get a new sticker.

Much like politicians, inspectors are after the money more than anything else.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

postroad said:


> I also flout the regulations. But the fact remains that I am flouting them.
> 
> Look what happened to an older man from a community east of myself.
> 
> ...


ah well, I am not one to "flout" regulations... I was just careful to locate myself in an area where we dont have them to contend with. There are no building codes, and no vehicle inspections in my area. We do have the state board of health to contend with on plumbing... but if one owns enough land... 11 acres I think is the cuttoff point, then even plumbing is pretty much up to the owner.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

ladycat said:


> They are little cups that have one serving of coffee in them. You put them in a special (very expensive) coffee making machine that brews one cup of coffee. They come in multi packs in the grocery store, working out to around $1 - $1.50 or so per cup.


Ahhh yes Keurig cups!! I am quite familiar with those as we use them daily..... just didnt recognize the kcup term. When you figure in the waste factor when perking a full pot and having only maybe one or two cups, they are really not all that expensive. I am also very fond of having the variety of flavors to choose from. My Yvonne prefers the "donut shop" variety while I prefer the "hazelnut" or "butter toffee" for myself.


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> When you figure in the waste factor when perking a full pot and having only maybe one or two cups, they are really not all that expensive.


They're too expensive for me! I get my ground coffee for dirt cheap by stacking coupons on rock bottom sales. I routinely pay less than $5 for the 30+ oz can of Folgers or Maxwell house, one can of which provides dozens of cups of coffee.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Ahhh yes Keurig cups!! I am quite familiar with those as we use them daily..... just didnt recognize the kcup term. When you figure in the waste factor when perking a full pot and having only maybe one or two cups, they are really not all that expensive. I am also very fond of having the variety of flavors to choose from. My Yvonne prefers the "donut shop" variety while I prefer the "hazelnut" or "butter toffee" for myself.


I just bought a new coffee pot about 2 weeks ago. I don't have to fix a full pot, just however much I want to drink. Cost of the new pot was $5. Found it on sale. I am not that fond of coffee so it don't take much to satisfy me and I can't see spending that much on coffee.
No on a couple of other things I will do like you, the price don't matter.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

ladycat said:


> They're too expensive for me! I get my ground coffee for dirt cheap by stacking coupons on rock bottom sales. I routinely pay less than $5 for the 30+ oz can of Folgers or Maxwell house, one can of which provides dozens of cups of coffee.


Our machine came with a reusable "cup" for using the regular coffee too. Its much cheaper that way than with the individual flavored ones..... but I have reached a point in my life where I figure I have paid "my dues" and aim to enjoy a few of the better things in life if I can during the few years I may have left. an extra 50 cents a day for coffee isnt going to break us. If it does...... we were much poorer than I thought.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

pancho said:


> I just bought a new coffee pot about 2 weeks ago. I don't have to fix a full pot, just however much I want to drink. Cost of the new pot was $5. Found it on sale. I am not that fond of coffee so it don't take much to satisfy me and I can't see spending that much on coffee.
> No on a couple of other things I will do like you, the price don't matter.


It is nice to be able to make those little choices in life isnt it? I would also rather eat one good cookie than a dozen "healthy" ones that taste like a cardboard box!


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> It is nice to be able to make those little choices in life isnt it? I would also rather eat one good cookie than a dozen "healthy" ones that taste like a cardboard box!


I agree. I enjoy making my own decisions on what I want to buy
I can remember a time when I had missed a lot of meals that I would much rather had a dozen cookies no matter how they tasted. One just didn't fill that hollow spot. Now I can be more picky.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

postroad said:


> My point is that to truly live poor is illegal. Modern society forces a certain level of materialism on its citizens.
> 
> A level that is not universally achievable in a natural system. Therefore society which makes the rules, is forced to subsidise the laggards.


And this, by the way, is how I went from working 2 jobs 7 days a week and still barely surviving, to working the same jobs and going on food stamps, etc. I could not afford daycare for my two eldest sons, ages 10 and 12, and they hated it anyway. They had my phone numbers for where I worked, and my main workplace was within easy walking distance and they came there often. 

But then some busybody called CPS on me because the kids weren't being watched by a babysitter and CPS told me I *had* to put them in daycare or risk losing them. Understand, my boys were cooking fried chicken from scratch at that age, from a cookbook. They were competent, independent kids who'd lived in the country for most of their lives before we moved to our small town. Not only could I not afford it, it seemed totally unnecessary and I told CPS that. They said that if I couldn't afford it I would have to sign up for state subsidized child care or else. So, I did and while I was at it I signed up for the food stamps too. 

If help is available and you do not take it, it can be perceived as child abuse.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Heritagefarm said:


> That qualifies as welfare abuse, thus is not really a good example. Although I think that girl was indeed a little over herself. Although, I can dress in $300 worth of clothing for only about $15 from some nice thrift store in silks and fine woolens.:thumb:


I agree....I can get Patagonia, etc...really nice stuff at the thrift stores. Even found two Brooks Brothers shirts!


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## acde (Jul 25, 2011)

when family friend was given 6 mos. to live I went to gov't agency to try to help him get assistance. Waiting room was over flowing, after waiting for 4 hrs my son who is in law enforcement started asking those around him, how often do they drug test? He told everybody they told him he would be drug tested. We were out of there in lessthan 30 min. The place cleared fast. And by the way my friend didn't qualify because I wouldn't, couldn't let him become homeless.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

pancho said:


> I just bought a new coffee pot about 2 weeks ago. I don't have to fix a full pot, just however much I want to drink. Cost of the new pot was $5. Found it on sale. I am not that fond of coffee so it don't take much to satisfy me and I can't see spending that much on coffee.
> No on a couple of other things I will do like you, the price don't matter.


We use an old-style percolator glass Pyrex coffee pot.



chamoisee said:


> I agree....I can get Patagonia, etc...really nice stuff at the thrift stores. Even found two Brooks Brothers shirts!


I've got four of Pendleton's better wool shirts. They're woven so fine they don't even look like wool at first glance. That's about $500 worth right there is I bought all those brand new! :shocked: Only disadvantage is I have to put up with a couple moth holes.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

I get alot of nice thing from the thrift stores too. All with my own money. Same as with the grocery store. All my own money.


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## mrpink (Jun 29, 2008)

SquashNut said:


> I get alot of nice thing from the thrift stores too. All with my own money. Same as with the grocery store. All my own money.



PSSStt!!! I don't think its legal to make and use your own money. :hysterical:


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

mrpink said:


> PSSStt!!! I don't think its legal to make and use your own money. :hysterical:


Oh, boy. Now I am in big trouble.:run:


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

acde said:


> when family friend was given 6 mos. to live I went to gov't agency to try to help him get assistance. Waiting room was over flowing, after waiting for 4 hrs my son who is in law enforcement started asking those around him, how often do they drug test? He told everybody they told him he would be drug tested. We were out of there in lessthan 30 min. The place cleared fast. And by the way my friend didn't qualify because I wouldn't, couldn't let him become homeless.


I am not at all opposed to drug testing anyone who signs up for assistance, with the exception of *medical* maryjane.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

mrpink said:


> pssstt!!! I don't think its legal to make and use your own money. :hysterical:


 lol!!


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

chamoisee said:


> I am not at all opposed to drug testing anyone who signs up for assistance, with the exception of *medical* maryjane.


 OK then, do we test farmers and ranchers who receive govt. assistance? Where does it end? And what happened to the right to privacy? Does one give up constitutional protections because they take government money?
You can bet that any push for legislating widespread drug testing of welfare recipients is being pushed by lobbyists for the drug testing companies. Their desire to make a profit, and some peoples misguided morals should not trump basic constitutional protections.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

greg273 said:


> OK then, do we test farmers and ranchers who receive govt. assistance? Where does it end? And what happened to the right to privacy? Does one give up constitutional protections because they take government money?
> You can bet that any push for legislating widespread drug testing of welfare recipients is being pushed by lobbyists for the drug testing companies. Their desire to make a profit, and some peoples misguided morals should not trump basic constitutional protections.


I agree, we should not have drug testing for employment either.... thats a direct violation of our Constitutional rights as outlined in the 9th amendment where it states... "no citizen shall be denied the right to get stoned on weekends". Ok, so it doesnt use those exact words, but getting high or drunk off the job is one of those non enumerated rights isnt it?


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

yes- I love the goodwill for clothes- most of mine come from there! and yard sales!
got a lands end rain coat there!

there was no way this yo-yo I waited on used a goodwill though LOL


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

greg273 said:


> OK then, do we test farmers and ranchers who receive govt. assistance? Where does it end? And what happened to the right to privacy? Does one give up constitutional protections because they take government money?


Well, that actually is different. The farmer has a job and is receiving gov't money, whereas the welfare recipient is just living off it. I don't really see why drug testing would be a problem - unless it was done every month or something like that.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

greg273 said:


> OK then, do we test farmers and ranchers who receive govt. assistance? Where does it end? And what happened to the right to privacy? Does one give up constitutional protections because they take government money?
> You can bet that any push for legislating widespread drug testing of welfare recipients is being pushed by lobbyists for the drug testing companies. Their desire to make a profit, and some peoples misguided morals should not trump basic constitutional protections.


I suppose you have a point. I don't know what the answer is, but the thought of people using state assistance to buy drugs and alcohol does irk me, especially if there are children who are going without because of it. 

I still think, though, that part of the reason we have welfare at all is to keep poor people poor. The system is designed to make it difficult to get off of it. There is no gradual transition. The minute you start to get back on your feet and make money, they punish you for it.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> I suppose you have a point. I don't know what the answer is, but the thought of people using state assistance to buy drugs and alcohol does irk me, especially if there are children who are going without because of it.
> 
> I still think, though, that part of the reason we have welfare at all is to keep poor people poor. The system is designed to make it difficult to get off of it. There is no gradual transition. The minute you start to get back on your feet and make money, they punish you for it.


How do you feel your punished, for getting back on your feet? do they cut your food stamps? Cause thet seems fair. if you can pay for your groceries then some one else should get the food stamps.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

chamoisee said:


> The minute you start to get back on your feet and make money, they punish you for it.


That is the difference in a person who needs a hand up and one that wants a hand out. The difference in a person down on their luck and needing some help to get back on their feet and the person who plans on riding welfare for all its worth and then some.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

pancho said:


> That is the difference in a person who needs a hand up and one that wants a hand out. The difference in a person down on their luck and needing some help to get back on their feet and the person who plans on riding welfare for all its worth and then some.


I think maybe you are not comprehending what I am trying to say. The system is organized such that it is very difficult to get off of the system, although at this time, Idaho is better about that. But it used to be that if you made any money at all, your food stamps would drop right away, so that you could not, for example, save any of your wages to pay the rent or the electric bill or gas to get to work or whatever. My understanding is that it is still that way in some states. 

When the minimum wage is so low in comparison to the rents in the area that a person cannot work enough to to pay for the first, last and deposit, or even to pay the rent and bills if they are already in the place....and the daycare....and then the food stamps also drop to nothing because they are working....then the result is that the person cannot get ahead enough to be stable and to advance to the point where they won't end up in this position again. Instead, they end up living on the edge. A person who is living on the edge does not have the luxury of planning or saving, etc. 

I have seen in in so many other families....I am convinced that the government does not actually want the very poor people to get off of welfare. As long as they are on the dole, their lives are the gov't business and every detail is known about them. Also, it is easy enough to control them when they are in that position.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Where do you think those food stamps come from? My food allotment gets cut every time one of the mooches decied they don't want to work (inflated grocery prices).
My house taxes just went up because the itiots in this county decieded the parents couldn't take time to send a sandwich for their kids.
Who is the one getting punished? I don't understand why you think your getting punished.
The idea is for you to make it on your own. If you feel like your getting less food stamps cause you work, then you know now what the ones who are trying to make it on their own feel.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

SquashNut said:


> Where do you think those food stamps come from? My food allotment gets cut every time one of the mooches decied they don't want to work (inflated grocery prices).


Do you have actual proof of this phenomenon?


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Ya, have you been to the store lately? How do you think the food stamps get paid for? or are you one of those who Beleive in Obama money?
It's not a phenomenon.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

chamoisee said:


> I think maybe you are not comprehending what I am trying to say. The system is organized such that it is very difficult to get off of the system, although at this time, Idaho is better about that. But it used to be that if you made any money at all, your food stamps would drop right away, so that you could not, for example, save any of your wages to pay the rent or the electric bill or gas to get to work or whatever. My understanding is that it is still that way in some states.
> 
> When the minimum wage is so low in comparison to the rents in the area that a person cannot work enough to to pay for the first, last and deposit, or even to pay the rent and bills if they are already in the place....and the daycare....and then the food stamps also drop to nothing because they are working....then the result is that the person cannot get ahead enough to be stable and to advance to the point where they won't end up in this position again. Instead, they end up living on the edge. A person who is living on the edge does not have the luxury of planning or saving, etc.
> 
> I have seen in in so many other families....I am convinced that the government does not actually want the very poor people to get off of welfare. As long as they are on the dole, their lives are the gov't business and every detail is known about them. Also, it is easy enough to control them when they are in that position.


The govt could care less about the poor people. Like any other govt. benefit there is a lot of money to be made from food stamps. When food stamps first went into effect it was a good idea and did help many families.
Back when they gave out commodities it helped many families.
Those days are long gone. I know you won't believe me but much of the food stamps given out today is completely wasted. There are stores where food stamps make up the majority of sales. These stores give approximately $.50 for every $1.00 worth of food stamps.

My x-wife was the district manager of many of these stores. Some of the stores would be the top money makers in the district but almost never sold any real food stuffs. Beer and cigarettes made up the majority of their sales and the majority of these were paid for with food stamps.
I have watched many people come into these stores and trade $100.00 worth of food stamps for $50.00 cash or a case of beer and a carton of cigarettes. I have seen them line up to sell their food stamps. Not just a couple but a steady line from opening time to closing time. She had one store that was used especially by one motorcycle club. None of the women were married but each had several children. The got food stamps for themselves and their children. Their live in boyfriends brought the food stamps to this store to trade for beer, cigarettes, and money.

This is the reason so many people do not want their tax dollars given to people in the form of food stamps.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

That and the fact that poor people get too much other help as well. They are becoming the rich. I for one am tired of it.
Why should my dh stand out in the cold to feed abunch of lazy people who care nothing for them selves, and why should my owner ship of my bought and paid for home be put at risk for those same people.
This whole mess was caused by those so called poor people who thought they deserved homes they didn't work for and now they want us to feel sorry for them and not only pay off their credit cards, but feed them too.
Who is being punished?

And yes they are digitizing the money to run this country right now and for every so many dollars printed the value of our dollar goes down. Which is what is causing the grocery prices to go up. So your food stamps are digitized fake money that causes inflation to others grocery, fuel ect.
So we pay twice with our taxes and inflated prices.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

SquashNut said:


> Ya, have you been to the store lately? How do you think the food stamps get paid for? or are you one of those who Beleive in Obama money?
> It's not a phenomenon.


Proof please, not anecdotes. Hard proof that can be cited from a reliable source.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

chamoisee said:


> Proof please, not anecdotes. Hard proof that can be cited from a reliable source.


I just got through doing a search on food stamp fraud. I clicked on the first one. Here is the results.

Charges wer filed in Essex county courts against 4 different stores for food stamp fraud. Ebt cards were exchanged for cash and cocaine. One store Ace Wholesale had 3,178 different transactions over $100.00. This resulted in $524,000 of EBT being exchanged for cash and cocaine from June 2010 to October 2011.
That is a fact. That is one store. Just in the one town of Lynn.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Not proof of fraud. Proof of what she is saying. I believe that there's fraud and I hope every one of them gets busted. But the stuff she is talking about...I want proof, man.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Because in all honesty, I think our food is too freaking _cheap_, not too expensive. If our culture valued good food and the American people who grow it enough to pay for what it is worth, a lot of these other problems would be less of an issue.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

chamoisee said:


> Not proof of fraud. Proof of what she is saying. I believe that there's fraud and I hope every one of them gets busted. But the stuff she is talking about...I want proof, man.


Please take a little time to read the post of others. It is possible to do a search on food stamp fraud. You will see thousands of pages of proof. What else do you want?

Look in the right hand corner of your computer screen. You will notice a space. Type food stamp fraud in that place and hit enter. You will see pages of instances of food stamp fraud. Names, dates, stores, court cases.
What else can we do to show you?


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

pancho said:


> Please take a little time to read the post of others. It is possible to do a search on food stamp fraud. You will see thousands of pages of proof. What else do you want?
> 
> Look in the right hand corner of your computer screen. You will notice a space. Type food stamp fraud in that place and hit enter. You will see pages of instances of food stamp fraud. Names, dates, stores, court cases.
> What else can we do to show you?


She hasn't heard about QE3?


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

pancho said:


> Please take a little time to read the post of others. It is possible to do a search on food stamp fraud. You will see thousands of pages of proof. What else do you want?
> 
> Look in the right hand corner of your computer screen. You will notice a space. Type food stamp fraud in that place and hit enter. You will see pages of instances of food stamp fraud. Names, dates, stores, court cases.
> What else can we do to show you?


You could read the post you're replying to. What I am talking about wanting proof for is stuff like this:



> Where do you think those food stamps come from? My food allotment gets cut every time one of the mooches decied they don't want to work (inflated grocery prices).
> My house taxes just went up because the itiots in this county decieded the parents couldn't take time to send a sandwich for their kids.


and



> And yes they are digitizing the money to run this country right now and for every so many dollars printed the value of our dollar goes down. Which is what is causing the grocery prices to go up. So your food stamps are digitized fake money that causes inflation to others grocery, fuel ect.
> So we pay twice with our taxes and inflated prices.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> You could read the post you're replying to. What I am talking about wanting proof for is stuff like this:
> 
> 
> 
> and


Like i said study up on QE3. Quantative Easing. basically the goverment sells it's dept to the fed and the fed prints cash out of thin air. Every time they do this your money looses value. This is a process that is usually folowed when a country cann't sell its dept to any other country. Also China quit loaning us money. The country also got a down grade that means any real cash we borrow from some one has a much higher intrest rate. all of this leads to higher grocery prices.
So all the food stamps, unemployment, loans to banks, money to keep union workers working has been fake money. paid for by inflation. So when the people who get food stamps act like we shouldn't be concerned they are so wrong. especially when so much of them are being wasted.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

chamoisee said:


> You could read the post you're replying to. What I am talking about wanting proof for is stuff like this:
> 
> 
> 
> and


Some people who are on food stamps will look for any reason to remain on them. It is much easier for them to continue letting others raise them and their families. They will look for any excuse. It isn't anything new. You have been given several facts that prove that. You have refused to even look at the proof. I suspect this is for a reason.

I have never done this before on this forum but I will have to put you on ignore.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

this is what it costs every year.




ANNUAL SUMMARY OF FOOD AND NUTRITION SERVICE PROGRAMS 
(Data as of December 01, 2011) 
FY 2007 FY 2008 FY 2009 FY 2010 FY 2011 

SUPPLEMENTAL NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM 1/ 
People Participating (Thous.) 26,316 28,223 33,490 40,302 44,712 
Households Participating (Thous.) 11,788 12,727 15,232 18,618 21,075 
Value of Benefits (Mil.$) 30,373 34,608 50,360 64,704 71,812 
Average Monthly Benefit Per Person ($) 96.18 102.19 125.31 133.79 133.84 
Average Monthly Benefit Per Household ($) 214.72 226.60 275.51 289.61 283.96 
Total Cost (Mil. $) 33,191 37,640 53,635 68,309 75,331 

PUERTO RICO GRANT (Mil. $) 2/ 1,551 1,623 2,001 2,001 2,001 

NATIONAL SCHOOL LUNCH PROGRAM 3/ 
Children Participating (Thous.) 30,630 31,016 31,312 31,747 31,759 
Total Lunches Served (Mil.) 5,071 5,209 5,186 5,278 5,255 
Percent Free (%) 49.4 50.1 52.5 55.8 58.1 
Percent Reduced-Price (%) 9.9 10.0 10.0 9.4 8.5 
Total Afterschool Snacks Served (Mil.) 183 206 215 219 225 
Cash Payments (Mil. $) 7,706 8,265 8,873 9,750 10,063 
Commodity Costs (Mil. $) 1,033 1,052 1,119 1,128 1,199 
Total Cost (Mil. $) 8,739 9,318 9,992 10,878 11,262 

SCHOOL BREAKFAST PROGRAM 3/ 
Children Participating (Thous.) 10,119 10,608 11,075 11,670 12,133 
Total Breakfasts Served (Mil.) 1,714 1,812 1,867 1,968 2,037 
Percent Free or Reduced Price (%) 80.6 80.6 82.1 83.5 83.7 
Total Cost (Mil. $) 2,163 2,366 2,583 2,859 3,018 

SPECIAL MILK PROGRAM 4/ 
Total Half-Pints Served (Mil.) 90 86 78 72 67 
Total Cost (Mil. $) 14 15 14 12 12 

CHILD/ADULT CARE FOOD PROGRAM 5/ 
Average Daily Attendance (Thous.) 3,207 3,254 3,320 3,411 3,392 
Total Meals Served (Mil.) 1,848 1,895 1,896 1,910 1,925 
Child Care Centers (Mil.) 1,161 1,204 1,217 1,248 1,273 
Day Care Homes (Mil.) 626 627 613 595 582 
Adult Care Centers (Mil.) 61 64 66 67 69 
Percent Free or Reduced Price (%) 81.3 81.3 81.8 82.1 81.7 
Cash Payments (Mil. $) 2,023 2,169 2,289 2,398 2,465 
Commodity Costs (Mil.$) 77 87 95 94 97 
Total Costs (Mil.$) 2,237 2,403 2,535 2,639 2,709 

SUMMER FOOD SERVICE PROGRAM 6/ 
Average Daily Attendance (Thous.) 1,977 2,130 2,236 2,304 2,310 
Total Meals Served (Mil.) 120 130 132 134 140 
Total Cost (Mil.) 290 326 348 359 379 

CHILD NUTRITION STATE ADMIN. (Mil. $) 7/ 161 171 176 183 165 

WIC (SPECIAL SUPPLEMENTAL FOOD) 8/ 
Women-Infants-Children Participating (Thous.) 8,285 8,705 9,122 9,175 8,958 
Food Cost (Mil. $) 3,881 4,534 4,641 4,563 5,021 
Avg. Monthly Food Cost Per Person ($) 39.03 43.41 42.40 41.44 46.70 
Total Cost (Mil. $) 5,409 6,192 6,472 6,684 7,190 

COMMODITY SUPPLEMENTAL FOOD 9/ 
Total Participation (Thous.) 466 475 467 519 588 
Total Cost (Mil. $) 142 161 155 165 197 

FOOD DISTRIB. ON INDIAN RESERV 9/ 
Total Participation (Thous.) 87 90 95 85 78 
Total Cost (Mil.$) 81 96 100 95 93 

NSIP (Elderly Feeding) 10/ 
Total Meals Served (Mil.) NA NA NA NA NA 
Total Cost (Mil. $) 2.6 2.4 2.0 2.5 1.7 

TEFAP (Emergency Food Assistance) 11/ 
Total Pounds Distributed (Mil.) 340 337 724 746 777 
Total Food Cost (Mil. $) 198 226 553 566 462 
Total Cost (Mil.$) 255 283 617 631 528 

OTHER FOOD DISTRIBUTION PROGRAMS 
Disaster Feeding (Mil. $) 12/ 7.060 0.301 0.007 0.119 0.000 
Charitable Institutes (Mil. $) 13/ 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.601 0.050 
NOTES: 
Data are provided by Federal Fiscal Year (October through September). Commodity costs reflect the value of food distributed to participants (Food Distribution on Indian Reservations and Commodity Supplemental Food Program) or delivered to State warehouses (all other programs). 
FY 2011 data are preliminary and all data are subject to revision. 
1/ Participation data are 12-month averages. Total cost includes benefits, the Federal share of State administrative expenses, and other Federal costs (e.g., printing and processing stamps). The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) formerly known as the Food Stamp Program prior to FY 2009. 
2/ Puerto Rico's Nutrition Assistance Grant provides benefits analogous to SNAP. Smaller outlying areas with similar grants include American Samoa ($6.5 million in FY 2008) and the Northern Marianas ($16.2 million). 
3/ National School Lunch and School Breakfast participation data are 9-month averages (summer months are excluded). They represent average daily meals served adjusted by an attendance factor. School Lunch costs include cash payments, entitlement commodities, bonus commodities (surplus foods donated by the Dept. of Agriculture), and cash-in-lieu of commodities. School Breakfast costs are cash payments. Cash payments are Federal reimbursements to State agencies based on meals served multiplied by reimbursement rates which are adjusted annually to reflect changes in food costs. Free and reduced-price meals served to needy children are reimbursed at much higher rates than full-price meals. 
4/ Special milk costs are cash payments based on an annually determined reimbursement rate and the actual cost of free milk (a small portion of the total--less than 7% for all years). 
5/ Total costs include cash payments, entitlement and bonus commodities, cash-in-lieu of commodities, sponsor administrative costs, start-up costs and audits. 
6/ Average daily attendance is reported only for July, the peak month of activity. Costs include cash payments, entitlement and bonus commodities, and the Federal share of State and sponsor administrative costs. The decline in meals served since FY 2001 is largely attributable to alternative summer meal service in the National School Lunch and School Breakfast Program under Seamless Waiver provisions which eased reporting requirements for sponsors. 
7/ The federal share of State administrative costs for the National School Lunch, School Breakfast, and Child and Adult Food Care Programs. 
8/ Total costs include food benefits, nutrition services and administrative funds, the Farmers' Market Nutrition Program, infrastructure, breastfeeding promotion and peer counseling, program evaluation, and technical assistance. 
9/ Includes commodity distribution costs (entitlement and bonus), the Federal share of State administrative expenses, and other costs (such as storage and transportation, food losses and demo. projects--national level only, unavailable prior to FY 1996). 
10/ The Nutrition Services Incentive Program was formerly called Nutrition Program for the Elderly. As of FY 2002, meals served are reported to the Agency on Aging (DHHS) rather than FNS. In FY 2003, administration of cash grants was transferred to the Agency on Aging, and FNS costs were limited to the value of commodities distributed. 
11/ Total cost includes commodities distributed (entitlement and bonus) and the Federal share of State admin. expenses. Emergency food assistance is food made available to hunger relief organizations such as food banks and soup kitchens. It is not disaster relief. 
12/ Most disaster relief is provided through SNAP. 
13/ Includes summer camps.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

So..it looks like the school lunch and breakfast program is a federal program, per the data you have posted. Therefore it would not affect your property taxes. :-/


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> Because in all honesty, I think our food is too freaking _cheap_, not too expensive. If our culture valued good food and the American people who grow it enough to pay for what it is worth, a lot of these other problems would be less of an issue.


Well If i had my food payed for by some one else i would think it was cheap too. In fact then you must think it is ok to have expensive food so that the kids in theis country cann't aford it. Who is being mean now.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

chamoisee said:


> So..it looks like the school lunch and breakfast program is a federal program, per the data you have posted. Therefore it would not affect your property taxes. :-/


Well, you know it did, like it or not. If the school doesn't have enough funds and they vote for a levy, it ups my taxes. And it was for the schools. Voted in by poor people.
I don't care to support you. I have a right to that opinion. Take care of your own kids.
There are alot of people in this country who would be just fine even in this deppresion, if the poor would stop their voting for more and more from those who work hard for a living. But you all cann't do that. You won't be happy till we all are in the welfare line right along with you.


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## aunt fannie (Mar 7, 2009)

OK... I read this thread a couple of times. First, it is a kick in the teeth when I go to the store and the 2 ladies ahead of me each have 2 buggies full of TV dinners for the kids & T-BONES for them, chips & dip, and on on on.... then get in Cadillac!

2nd, if you haven't seen women having kids to get a fatter check, you haven't been down south. It is what their mother did & in their mind, if it's good enough for Mom, it's good enough for me...... It is all they know, and you are right, they get more to reproduce than most of us do to hold down a job.

I went by my welfare office and picked up a flyer of what is offered here in GA.:

Programs to find child care or help paying for child care.
Programs to assist families with nutrition assistance.
Programs to assist with energy bills
Programs to assist familie with healthcare coverage
Programs to help with housing
Programs to protect children and the elderly from abuse
Programs to adopt
Programs to assit immigrants
Programs to assist individuals with criminal backgrounds
Programs to help families without income

and y'all that is just the beginning......

it is disgusting!


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## mrpink (Jun 29, 2008)

aunt fannie said:


> OK... I read this thread a couple of times. First, it is a kick in the teeth when I go to the store and the 2 ladies ahead of me each have 2 buggies full of TV dinners for the kids & T-BONES for them, chips & dip, and on on on.... then get in Cadillac!
> 
> 2nd, if you haven't seen women having kids to get a fatter check, you haven't been down south. It is what their mother did & in their mind, if it's good enough for Mom, it's good enough for me...... It is all they know, and you are right, they get more to reproduce than most of us do to hold down a job.
> 
> ...


did you pick up a flyer and leave or did you make an appointment and speak with a worker?


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

> Programs to protect children and the elderly from abuse


Seriously??? This is a bad thing?


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