# Cold weather problems



## fellini123 (Feb 2, 2003)

Ok this is something we dont usually have to deal with, but this year seems to be the exception. Today was the coldest it has been in our area since the 1990s. Last night it got so cold that a tree limb snapped off and hit the fence. Of course the horses found it before we did. And when we went out to check the horses at about 11 PM they were gone. We searched and searched, first on foot and then by tractor and by car. We had to idea where they went.

Needless to say I was panicked, we called the police and they came out with a hugh spotlight but we still didnt see them. At about 3:30 am we gave up as we were frozen and couldnt really see anything with it being so dark.

Of course we got up at sunrise, and our neighbor that is about a mile away was here saying our horses were in his front yard. We went and got them, one is easy to catch, he was excited to go home, the other one took a bit longer.

So now they are home, the fence has been repaired, and actuall we moved them to a different field. But the weather is SOOOOO cold the water trough is totally frozen. We put warm water in their buckets, they were thirsty after being out all night. They finished off one bucket, and I thought that was enough for awhile. We put in about 1/2 bucket in about 4 hours. They werent that interested by then the water froze. At about 5 PM we filled up the buckets again. Seems we are going to have to water them from buckets for about a week, as the temps are going to stay way below freezing.

How often should we refill thier buckets?? Andthey will NOT go into the barn or the shed. We have tried to put their hay only there, no go, we have tried to lead them in, no go. They just re not interested. How cold can it get before I should worry?

Any other ideas would be helpful\

Oh PS they do have nice wolly coats, they look like furry stuffed animals!!
Alice in Virginia


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

They should take the kind of cold you have down there with no problem. Ours will be outside the next couple of nights and it will be -20 or so. Never use blankets, just make sure they have plenty of hay. They have a 3 sided shelter to go into and they will be fine. In nice weather they like to come into the barn for a treat of oats. In windy, cold snowy weather they won't come near the barn. You have a hard time catching them. They want to stay out with their buts facing the wind. Much more healthy outside than in a damp, drafty barn.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Ideally, they should have ice free water in front of them all the time. Can you dump the ice out of your trough and use a heater in it? Or just keep adding hot water to the buckets to warm it so ice doesn't form.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Imagine raising horses in climate that is below freezing nearly 6 months of the year! Tank heater or a natural spring keeps them watered. Even in zero degree, my horses prefer to be outside. Actually spend more time under shelter in the summer to avoid flies, than winter avoiding cold weather.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It was -39C here today (before wind chill factor) and none of my horses wanted inside so yours should be fine. 

Is your trough frozen right down or just a lot of ice? If you can get through the ice, full with hot water and stick a ball in it, you should be okay. If you're stuck hauling pails, haul warm water regularly because dry feed and insufficient water can cause a compaction.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Up here, our horses are never inside, even though they have access to come inside. Ours do not have water, they eat snow. It is -50C windchill at this moment. They are currently standing out there, chewing on their hay.

Of course, they are well acclimatized to these conditions. Do you have electricity any where near them? If you do, you could buy a stock tank heater to keep them in liquid water with less worry and hassle.


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## fellini123 (Feb 2, 2003)

Yeah but your guys have horses that are used to it. My poor babies are hot house flowers!!! LOL Ok not quite that bad....but. Today wasnt bad just rainy. I just got back from giving them their evening meal. Carrots and 3 flakes of hay each.
They show no interest in going in either the barn or the run in.
Haypoint, you are right they go under the run in much more in the summer to get away from the flys. They have shown NO interest in it so far this winter.
We broke down and bought a 32 gallon heater trough. They havent touched it!!
The water is a nice temp, no freezing, but they are breaking the ice on their old trough and drinking the rain water out of it. Any ideas to get them to use the new one?? I guess it doesnt smell horsie enough.....maybe I should rub it with manure??? LOL
Tomorrow is supposed to be the first reallyy bad day....high of 11, low of -3.
Alice in CCCOOOOOLLLLLDDDDD Virginia


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

fellini123 said:


> Yeah but your guys have horses that are used to it. My poor babies are hot house flowers!!! LOL Ok not quite that bad....but. Today wasnt bad just rainy. I just got back from giving them their evening meal. Carrots and 3 flakes of hay each.
> They show no interest in going in either the barn or the run in.
> Haypoint, you are right they go under the run in much more in the summer to get away from the flys. They have shown NO interest in it so far this winter.
> We broke down and bought a 32 gallon heater trough. They havent touched it!!
> ...



Does your heated trough have a GFI on it so you know it isn't shocking them? Did you clean it out before you filled it to get rid of any residual taste?


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## ufo_chris (Apr 30, 2010)

farmerDale said:


> Up here, our horses are never inside, even though they have access to come inside. Ours do not have water, they eat snow. It is -50C windchill at this moment. They are currently standing out there, chewing on their hay.
> 
> Of course, they are well acclimatized to these conditions. Do you have electricity any where near them? If you do, you could buy a stock tank heater to keep them in liquid water with less worry and hassle.


I always heard that horses will NOT eat snow for water but cows will ???


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

There are a lot of amish by us. In the winter they put the unused horses out in a picked cornfield for the winter. If it snows that is their water source. They come through the winter in decent shape ready for spring work. If no snow they haul them water.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Horses need ample amounts of water in the winter because hay has little to no moisture, without water move it through the gut an impaction can occur. Impaction colic is ugly and can easily be deadly. 

I'm sure the Amish, and other people, force their horses to eat snow but it's absolutely not a good thing to do. If you fill a 5 gallon bucket with snow you may end up with 2" of water. Not enough, plus it brings down the core temperature.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

Didn't say it was a good thing to do, just that it is done.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

ufo_chris said:


> I always heard that horses will NOT eat snow for water but cows will ???


It's the other way around. It MT we had to keep the creek open for water for the cows, but horses *could* survive on snow for awhile if they had to. Not ideal, certainly, but possible.

We are in southern KY so similar climate to the OP. Our mares are outside on pasture, with trees/brush as a windbreak, in cold weather we double the amount of hay we feed and we have tank heaters in the water tanks and we break the ice out of the smaller tubs for the individual horses kept up and haul buckets of warm/hot water out for them twice a day. At a minimum, I want each horse to have access to at least 10 gallons of water a day.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

ufo_chris said:


> I always heard that horses will NOT eat snow for water but cows will ???


They sure do and they thrive. They take it much better than cattle.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Horses need ample amounts of water in the winter because hay has little to no moisture, without water move it through the gut an impaction can occur. Impaction colic is ugly and can easily be deadly.
> 
> I'm sure the Amish, and other people, force their horses to eat snow but it's absolutely not a good thing to do. If you fill a 5 gallon bucket with snow you may end up with 2" of water. Not enough, plus it brings down the core temperature.


Forcing is a strong word. We and everyone else up here who has horses, LET them use snow as their water source. I have never heard of a case of impaction colic. Horses before man came along and tamed them and coddled them were just like the moose, the elk, the deer, the wild hogs, the coyotes, the wolves, the mink, or any other wild animal that eats snow for 6 months of the year around here.

There are University of Illinois ( I think it was Illinois), studies actually that show cattle doing BETTER, and producing MORE milk, and better weight gains utilizing snow as water. I need to dig them up. I just recently shared them on another site.

There is this misconception out there that it is dangerous. Thousands of horse years in 6 months of frozen western Canada would be saying otherwise. Again, I am not saying to anyone to go and suddenly stop feeding liquid water, and rely on snow. The stock of any kind has to be used to it... I am just saying it does not make us up here any less of a horse owner, than those who coddle them more. FORCING sounds abusive to me. Just wanted to clear that up.

Cheers, 

Dale


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

farmerDale said:


> Forcing is a strong word. We and everyone else up here who has horses, LET them use snow as their water source. I have never heard of a case of impaction colic. Horses before man came along and tamed them and coddled them were just like the moose, the elk, the deer, the wild hogs, the coyotes, the wolves, the mink, or any other wild animal that eats snow for 6 months of the year around here.
> 
> There are University of Illinois ( I think it was Illinois), studies actually that show cattle doing BETTER, and producing MORE milk, and better weight gains utilizing snow as water. I need to dig them up. I just recently shared them on another site.
> 
> ...


Sure, they can live like that- but when horses were feral 6 was aged. Common sense and better care upped the aged figure to 16 when I was a kid, and paste dewormers, vaccines, and other medications have jacked the age to 30+ now.

If you don't offer unfrozen water, you are forcing them to eat snow. 

It really all depends on how much you value your stock.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Irish Pixie said:


> Sure, they can live like that- but when horses were feral 6 was aged.


I don't know about feral horses, but growing up on the ranch (1950s) there were times when it simply wasn't possible to keep water open for the ranch horses at all times. Miles from the ranch ... no electricity, absolutely impossible to get out to the horses daily ... and while I certainly won't say it was ideal, almost all of our 'retired' ranch horses lived into their 20s.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SFM in KY said:


> I don't know about feral horses, but growing up on the ranch (1950s) there were times when it simply wasn't possible to keep water open for the ranch horses at all times. Miles from the ranch ... no electricity, absolutely impossible to get out to the horses daily ... and while I certainly won't say it was ideal, almost all of our 'retired' ranch horses lived into their 20s.


So, they were retired when they were in their teens? Like I said, when I was a kid a horse was considered aged at 16 and because of better care they're now working into their 30s.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> So, they were retired when they were in their teens? Like I said, when I was a kid a horse was considered aged at 16 and because of better care they're now working into their 30s.


Our horses live and work to 30 quite easily as a general rule.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Sure, they can live like that- but when horses were feral 6 was aged. Common sense and better care upped the aged figure to 16 when I was a kid, and paste dewormers, vaccines, and other medications have jacked the age to 30+ now.
> 
> If you don't offer unfrozen water, you are forcing them to eat snow.
> 
> *It really all depends on how much you value your stock.*


Are you serious? Because our horses eat snow, we value them less than you value yours? That is kind of rich, don't you think?

Sheep and cattle often graze corn stocks, or stockpiled forage up here. They are often given the choice to come in to the yard to drink from the heated waterer. 9 times out of ten, they CHOOSE to eat snow, rather than expend the energy to walk 2 or 3 hundred yards. 

Animals eating snow, simply is not the horror you make it out to be. Just because humans would struggle with eating snow, or standing out in the cold wind, does not mean animals are not well made enough to do just that.

Finally, remember, you are in New York State. I am in Saskatchewan. I am sure my horses would suffer in your conditions, and yours would suffer, (probably die in about an hour if I read you right), in ours. Two extremely different worlds.

Regards,

Dale


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

farmerDale said:


> Our horses live to 30 quite easily as a general rule.


I don't understand your post, didn't I indicate that horses live longer now? It's due to better care and advancements in Veterinary medicine.

Re your prior post, you can do anything you'd like with your stock.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Our horses have fresh water available but more often than not, they'll pick snow over fresh water in winter.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Irish Pixie said:


> So, they were retired when they were in their teens? Like I said, when I was a kid a horse was considered aged at 16 and because of better care they're now working into their 30s.


It depended on the individual horse and what they were expected to do. A horse that was expected to work hard all day after cattle in rough country were usually 'retired' to less demanding jobs in their mid to late teens, horses that were particularly good at roping or sorting were often used for those jobs into their 20s, as were most of the draft horses I know of.

I still have a number of rancher family friends and for the most part, these are the ages their horses are now, as well ... not just back in the 50s and 60s when I was part of a working ranch. There are (and were then) a few horses still 'working' in their late 20s and early 30s ... but for the most part (like the mare I rode until I was 10) the horse that were kid horses and expected to teach the child rider what the rider's job was.

Even today, with better care, vaccinations, worming, etc. there aren't many 30 year old horses that can stand up to a full day of working ranch horse work, any more than DH and I ... in our 70s and 80s ... can do the work we used to do when we were in our 40s and 50s.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I have seen impaction colic, if keeping water open makes difference, I'll keep water open. I don't think any horse needs to die like that if it can be prevented.


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## fellini123 (Feb 2, 2003)

Well I took the boys over to the fresh warm water. Showed it to them, even scooped some out in my hand for them to drink. They were not interested. But they know where it is.
It is 8 degrees right now. we took out a bale of hay for each of them and they are chomping down. Lets hope they figure out the water is good. You know what they say......you can show a horse to water but you cant make him drink!!

Alice in Virginia

P.S. now to keep all our pipes running!!!


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

Obviously, the wild horses in the west seem to survive on snow and whatever water they can find. Other horses that are used to it also probably know how to fend for themselves pretty well. Is it 100% ideal for them? It seems obvious to me that it is not ideal, but functional. If the horses are not used to it, that is probably another topic of conversation. If your horses have fresh water in front of them, assuming the tank doesn't shock them or something like that, and they are not drinking it I would assume they are getting enough water. You might put some salt in their feed (or salt substitute) to make them thirsty. Depending on what you feed them, you can also soak it to get some extra water in them.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

In order to keep your pipes from freezing, just let your taps run a bit. I usually turn on the one in the kitchen and the bath tub.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Stonybrook said:


> You might put some salt in their feed (or salt substitute) to make them thirsty. Depending on what you feed them, you can also soak it to get some extra water in them.


I keep a spray bottle of salt water where it can't freeze and spray their hay ration. Works well to get them to drink in cold or cold/wet weather.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SFM in KY said:


> It depended on the individual horse and what they were expected to do. A horse that was expected to work hard all day after cattle in rough country were usually 'retired' to less demanding jobs in their mid to late teens, horses that were particularly good at roping or sorting were often used for those jobs into their 20s, as were most of the draft horses I know of.
> 
> I still have a number of rancher family friends and for the most part, these are the ages their horses are now, as well ... not just back in the 50s and 60s when I was part of a working ranch. There are (and were then) a few horses still 'working' in their late 20s and early 30s ... but for the most part (like the mare I rode until I was 10) the horse that were kid horses and expected to teach the child rider what the rider's job was.
> 
> Even today, with better care, vaccinations, worming, etc. there aren't many 30 year old horses that can stand up to a full day of working ranch horse work, any more than DH and I ... in our 70s and 80s ... can do the work we used to do when we were in our 40s and 50s.


I wouldn't think that being a ranch horse was anymore demanding than competitive trail riding or endurance and there are currently many 25, 30, and 30+ horses competing in those events. 

I'm not familiar with ranching, especially ranching of the 50-60s when you did it, but just from reading here the opinion is that most ranch work is done at slower speeds. I imagine it varies from place to place and task to task tho. 

My point was when someone brings up feral horses as what a horse can handle, it's more about what they can endure, and feral horses didn't live long. You simply can't think that Cuddle Bunny the domesticated horse can be thrown into the wild and live like Old Snort the one eyed, scar riddled, feral stallion that was old at 5.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie, it's a much different lifestyle for ranch horses. They tend to live in the elements rather than brand and while they may not work as fast, they work long days and the work can be physically hard on them.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

Most people with their pampered riding horses that are not ridden that much, have no concept of what working horses are asked to do and do willingly. Riding a horse for an hour or so around an arena or park until it breaks and little sweat and then stopping, is not like actually working all day either in the fields or up and down hills working cattle. Most people that use their horses for "work" are kind enough to them not to work them into their 20's. However, they can still do light work and riding well into their 20's and 30's. Light work like the average hobby horse owner does. 

One way I tell if a horse is used for work or hobby is: if it is tied it stands there willingly not jumping around and pawing. Or if they are driven and used for work: you can tie the lines back to the wagon and walk away and they will stand there untied. They are happy for the break.

I'm not saying that hobby horses are bad (for as much as I drive mine anymore they are hobby horses) or that working horses are. Just different mindsets of many owners in both groups.


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## fellini123 (Feb 2, 2003)

Ok, good news bad news from the Virginia front!! It is still COLD here, bad news.
The horses have decided that the new trough isnt going to kill them, and warm water aint so bad.....also bad news. Why?? you ask....because remember the part I said it was a 36 gallon trough?? Well they can go through that pretty quick if they want too!! LOL
Went out this morning they were still chomping on the hay we gave them last night. And there was about 2 inches of water left in the trough. That was about 7 am, now it i 1 pm, gave them some more hay and refilled the trough it had about 4 inches left in it. I figure I will fill it up around 6pm and again before I go to bed around midnight. They should be good.
It is bearly 20 degrees with about 8 degrees windchill. Thanks for all your help!!!
Alice in Virginia


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## AugustRED (Apr 18, 2010)

We're in the negative double digits up here, much colder than what we're used to but everyone is doing well. I have two living in a run in shed which is well protected by a woods. This morning is the first I've seen them outside since the storm started, guess it's because that's where everything is. I keep their water tank & hay manger full and they don't even seem bothered by the cold. Back before I had heated buckets & tanks & for my rabbits currently I haul out warm water twice a day - if they're smart they'll get a big drink while the water is liquid. Bottom line - it's a lot harder on us than it is on them...


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wr said:


> Irish Pixie, it's a much different lifestyle for ranch horses. They tend to live in the elements rather than brand and while they may not work as fast, they work long days and the work can be physically hard on them.


I guess I just don't see the difference between ranch horses and any other fit equine.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> I guess I just don't see the difference between ranch horses and any other fit equine.


The average fit horse works under ideal circumstances and is typically warmed up, worked under ideal conditions. Ours may be asked to do anything from pull 100+ calves/day to the branding pot, hold or pull a 2000 lb bull while he's being treated, wade through knee deep snow in a spring storm to check calving cows, run a flat race ahead of an angry momma cow in knee deep snow, or simply work all day moving cows, cutting cows, sorting in alleys in all weather. 

Ranch horses tend to be jack of all trades and masters of none and the range of work is hard on their bodies, which is why we're so demanding about conformation.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

wr said:


> The average fit horse works under ideal circumstances and is typically warmed up, worked under ideal conditions. Ours may be asked to do anything from pull 100+ calves/day to the branding pot, hold or pull a 2000 lb bull while he's being treated, wade through knee deep snow in a spring storm to check calving cows, run a flat race ahead of an angry momma cow in knee deep snow, or simply work all day moving cows, cutting cows, sorting in alleys in all weather.


And often asked to do this after being out in the pasture for days or weeks, even months, without being kept 'in training' to maintain physical condition as many competition horses are.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

SFM in KY said:


> And often asked to do this after being out in the pasture for days or weeks, even months, without being kept 'in training' to maintain physical condition as many competition horses are.


Absolutely and often when called into action, the poor old ranch horse has no warm up regime even when they are being used. It might involve a quick jog out the pasture or maybe just chucked in a trailer and hauled off to doctor something. 

Back in earlier years, there was a very good reason for waiting to train ranch horses until they were much older because they were physically capable of handling the job even if they were half broke but when some dummy decided it was best to start training horses at 2 or 3 even, I saw an incredible amount of shoulder injuries in young ranch horses from guys starting to rope off them when they were not physically ready.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SFM in KY said:


> And often asked to do this after being out in the pasture for days or weeks, even months, without being kept 'in training' to maintain physical condition as many competition horses are.


Well, that completely explains why it was nearly impossible to catch every single ranch horse I've ever encountered. Not that I've had contact with hundreds, but every one of them required a catch pen of some sort to be caught.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Irish Pixie said:


> Well, that completely explains why it was nearly impossible to catch every single ranch horse I've ever encountered. Not that I've had contact with hundreds, but every one of them required a catch pen of some sort to be caught.


On some of the big ranches, with big herds of horses, the horses were always brought in to the corrals by a rider on horseback to be caught. On the big ranches, you'd have anywhere from 5 to 20 riders going out and they wouldn't take the time to walk out individually to catch a horse, especially as the horses/pastures might be a mile or more from the barn.

On the smaller ranches like the one I grew up on and our neighbors, the horses could often be caught out in the pasture. The biggest issue for most of us was actual distance ... if the horses were out in the pasture, they were in pastures of 200 acres or more, with hills/trees/brush, you couldn't see them and it was not practical for a person to walk out to find them. Most ranchers kept one horse up in a small pasture close to the barn (often the one the kids rode) so that there was a horse available if you needed to bring in the working horse herd.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Where I come from, a non threatening child was sent out with a pail of oats to try and lure reluctant ranch horses back to work.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

wr said:


> Where I come from, a non threatening child was sent out with a pail of oats to try and lure reluctant ranch horses back to work.


As the only child, and horse addicted, I was apparently never non-threatening. I cannot count the hours I spent trying to capture my saddle horse out of the pasture. Also recall a few tantrums I pitched when my Dad would finally take pity on me, walk out with bridle in hand and no oat bucket and walk right up to the mare and put her bridle on. 

I remember at least once stomping back to the house declaring "If I can't catch her myself I won't ride!"

No, not rational ... but at 10 years old, there were a few things I wasn't rational about.


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