# off the grid camper question - solar



## prairiecomforts (May 28, 2006)

Our family owns a farm where we keep some livestock and chickens. It is 18 miles from the town where we live. Right now we make the trip out to check on animals once and sometimes twice a day. We would like to be at the farm full time but there is no liveable house. We would like to build a house but are presently on a 1.5 yr waiting list for the builder to start. We are considering selling our house in town and using some of that money to buy a travel trailer. There are a few issues with that plan though. The biggest being that there is no electric at the farm. The electric company pulled the polls and wont even consider running lines back into the property until a permanent home is built on the property. So if we get the camper we would need to use solar power and generators for everything. I don't even know where to start. We would need enough power to run everything in the camper plus something for supplemental heat. We live in ND where it was -40 wind chill and -23 actual temp last night. Anyone have any advise on where I can start?


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

I think you need to figure out the heat issue first. Solar electric is NOT an option for heat. YOu need to look at Propane/fuel oil for that.

Second figure out your budget for solar. Its not cheap and often is a lump sum payment where your electric bill is monthly. 

Now figure out how much power you need, What do you need to power? Once you know how much power you need then you can work on how to generate that power. 

Some power may be better from the generator some from solar.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

If I were going to try to live in a camper in ND with the temps you have there, I'd double stack hay or straw bales around and on top of it...completely bury the thing except one doorway/tunnel out. Can't imagine trying to keep a camper heated in that kind of weather.

As Gary said, solar isn't an option for heat. It can do some of your other electrical needs.

I'm curious how you manage to deal with animals now in that kind weather now.....keeping the eggs from freezing before you get to them, keeping them water, and so on.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Years ago a hunting friend had a piece of property out in the middle of no where. He had a good sized pole barn, and he parked a camper in the pole barn. We lived in that camper during hunting trips.
The pole barn got the camper out of the "wind chill" factor, but it still took a lot of fuel to barely keep it tolerable "inside".
I have read about folks with a pole barn making a "smaller living area" inside that barn and really insulating to make it winter time tolerable. . . . . . . . Far and away better than any "camper" 
Yes solar will work part of the time, but a generator and a lot of fuel will be very necessary.....

It was -20 here last night .


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Start HERE by reading all the stickies.

WWW


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

I'd look at buying an older single-wide trailer. It is a "house" so power co should give you service. Walls are thicker and the floorplan is better.


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## halfpint (Jan 24, 2005)

With those temperatures, it would be very hard to keep a trailer warm and water from freezing. We used to camp near a ski resort when I was a child, and just to keep the trailer warm we went through a lot of propane in a weekend. The water lines were freeze protected so the only water we had was from large water jugs. We were hooked up to sewer & electric.

Solar would only be good for recharging your RV battery for lighting, running the heater fan, and maybe running a 12V TV or radio. Usually the fridge, water heater and heater run off of propane.

I would think that it might be best to build a small, well insulated cabin, which you can later use as a guest house or rental unit. Or, build a nice barn with one side being living facilities. We've had a couple of friends do this and were able to save up to be able to build their houses.


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## used2bcool13 (Sep 24, 2007)

I have heard the most effective way to give heat to an rv is build a mudroom in front of the door and put a wood stove in it and use that for heat. 

Maybe you could put in a propane wall heater, the only difference between this and your rv oven is some type of ventilation usually occurs with the wall heater.

We have an rv with 100 watt solar panel and 2 6 volt golf cart batteries which keep the lights, propane fridge and even water pump viable. My old man has rigged a little inverter in the wall via a cigarette lighter adapter he installed wired directly to the batteries so I can charge the jet pack (internet) and my laptop while the sun is shining.

Generator is necessary for a/c, heat microwave, blow dryer, curling iron, iron. You get the idea. All of the niceties require the genny. 

I believe the fridge requires a smidge of electric - don't know what for.

During the freezing part of the winter you could use 5 gallon water jugs, they make an pump for these (like liquid soap). When it is above 32 degrees we have 2-3 55 gallon drums which we use as a water source and put a hose into the water pump. It is nothing you couldn't do. 

Main cost is fuel. Useage will depend on weather. Pm me if you want details.

Our low temp here is 10 degrees.

I think if you could put the rv in a barn or covered like a poster said above, it would be doable.


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

If you must do this, know that the first thing that freezing weather will bring is frozen holding tanks. So no way to use the rv plumbing drains. Unless you're good with that untill spring, you need to drop the holding tanks and lash up some sort of non-freeze plumbing system to get your sewage into your septic tank. Been there ......


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

Not suggesting that this is the answer to all of your energy needs, but you could get an energy bump by harnessing some wind also.

Every time I have been to North Dakota it seemed to always be a little bit on the breezy side.

TRellis


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## prairiecomforts (May 28, 2006)

Thanks for the suggestions. We would of course be using propane for heat and cooking. Solar mainly for lights, recharging phones, tablets and the portable Dvd player. Wind is something we are also considering. It is very breezy here!!! Question if we park the camper in the shop to get out of the wind in the winter - do we have to vent the exhaust for the furnace?


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

you will have to answer that one your self.
How tight is that "shop" building . . ????


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

We put propane lights in our travel trailer to cut power usage. It will get too humid inside anyway.

Think about a direct-vent propane heater rather than expecting the 12 volt furnace fan to make it all winter.

The rv hot water heater needs to be on all the time to keep from freezing. But it probably won't matter since all the water lines are only 1"-2" from being outside. (Our pipes froze. A lot.)

Now that you have cut up and replumbed the rv, wouldn't a single wide have been better? I wish we had gone that route.

The good thing is that you will have lots of stories to tell about your first winter in a rv. It can be done but not easily. Good luck!


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## prairiecomforts (May 28, 2006)

We are honestly still tossing around ideas on what would be best. The problem with building a small cabin or even a single wide is we would need to install new septic because that is considered a permanent structure. We were slreally hoping to roll the cost of the septic into a construction loan eventually. The camper is self contained but to be honest we would be using an outhouse anyway so we wouldn't have to deal with dumping the black water tank. Showers in the camper wouldn't present much of a problem during the warmer months and I figured we would just shower three times a week at the Y and take "sponge " baths in between during the winter. The shop is by no means air tight but it would be better than being outside exposed to the elements.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

A 4 season RV won't have the freezing problems a warm season RV will have.

One thing to consider is RV are not made to the same standard as Mobile homes or houses. Since they are intended for only temporay occupation the can use matterials that may off-gas chemicals. If you are chemical sensitive it could affect you. There are a few documented cases of this affecting people after Katrina when FEMA was using them for housing. The older the camp trailer the less it will off-gas. But there are very few 30 year old 4 season trailers.

WWW


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Sawdust toilet could help greatly.
I shudder at using an outhouse in -20F weather.....................................

What can you build a polebarn for ($$$$)
What goes "inside" that polebarn should be of nobody else's concern........

. . .-10 F again here last night . . . . . . . . .sure glad for my indoor potty.........


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

Once the ground thaws, put in septic. Not a big deal. 

Use plastic infiltrators and a plastic septic tank. I hauled the whole thing home for a 3,500 sf / 4 bedroom house in my pickup with two trips. No need for washed rock with infiltrators. For that matter, a young and foolish person could install the whole drainfield with just a shovel to dig the wide/shallow trenches. I'd hate to dig the hole for the tank by hand but it could be done.... FYI, all the backhoe work on our system was done in one day -so even if you hire the digging it isn't too bad. Concrete tanks are cheaper around here than plastic but delivery by a boom truck might tip costs one way or the other for you.

Also, if you look at 4-season rv's, all the ones I've seen need electric power to keep the tanks and plumbing in the basement warm - and cost more than "normal" ones do. Look closely.


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