# Police Brutality



## JoePa (Mar 14, 2013)

I've watched a number of videos on You Tube that show cops harassing, intimidating and using excessive force on citizens - what I see is very disturbing to say the least - what I am surprised at is the large number of instances that occur - as a result people are using their cameras to record any contact with police - also disturbing is the so-called good cop who is present and doesn't do anything when a citizen is being mistreated - I guess at one time cops were getting away with their misconduct but now with people using cameras it is being brought forth - 

I was wondering if others have seen some of these videos and what they think is happening - it is almost like them against us


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## SmokeEater2 (Jan 11, 2010)

Perhaps this topic might be better suited for General Chat?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

This topic has been beat unconscious in general chat.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

FBB a cop that has a problem with you could make your life a nightmare. 
Those of us in small crop farming in rural areas are especially susceptible to "they're not doing the normal thing "so they must be criminals attitude that leads to our abuse. 
The local police here actually arrested a local man for cannabis growth ,because they could not identify his crop of sunflowers.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

JoePa said:


> I've watched a number of videos on You Tube that show cops harassing, intimidating and using excessive force on citizens - what I see is very disturbing to say the least - what I am surprised at is the large number of instances that occur - as a result people are using their cameras to record any contact with police - also disturbing is the so-called good cop who is present and doesn't do anything when a citizen is being mistreated - I guess at one time cops were getting away with their misconduct but now with people using cameras it is being brought forth -
> 
> I was wondering if others have seen some of these videos and what they think is happening - it is almost like them against us


..........As I said before , before cell phone cams , Cops acted anyway they pleased ! Some , still think they can kill someone , and their local DA , won't prosecute them . But , the general populas has woken up to the Misdeeds of Rogue cops and they are demanding changes . Anyone who thinks a police force can investigate itself , has been talking to Mary Poppins ! Even TODAY , there , still , isn't any national database that collects stats from all 50 states so everyone can actually see how many innocent citizens are being murdered by cops .
..........Some folks think it is just a price we pay for effective police work , some simply don't care how many murders cops commit as long it doesn't affect.....THEM , and some don't want to know the truth . For instance , we know for a fact that Untreated members of the armed forces who were discharged with PTSD issues have been hired as Cops on local PD's . And , as far as I know , no one has done any investigation into this issue and see if there is any correlation between cops with PTSD killing innocent citizens . Wouldn't that make some interesting reading ? 
..........The simple truth is Cops , when they choose too , can make UP their personal interpretation of any law , arrest someone , and let the court system sort out all the details . The more people film Cops and their Abuses of their power , the more they are going to try and subvert all visual and verbal recording of their activities . Some states have even passed laws trying to prevent any recording of cops in action , Because , WHEN those entities are sued in court they lose their cases and have to pay large judgements because of Incompetent cops killing and injuring innocent citizens . Let's hope the momentum for independent investigation(s) of bad cops continues to grow . , fordy


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

This isn't a "Homesteading Question" topic


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## Super55 (Apr 9, 2014)

I was wondering if others have seen some of these videos and what they think is happening - it is almost like them against us


Out of every 50,000 cops working patrols you probably have maybe one or two that may be crooked or excessive and the media goes hell bent on trying to portray an image that all cops are bad. I've seen a lot of these incidents and in most instances the individual under arrest was not complying in some way that would may put the officer at ease or under suspicion.

A lot of departments are making there officers wear body cams with audio now to show the officers point of view. This is not only to wash out bad cops but to add as legal defense because it provides a first hand point of view from the officers perspective. 

Personally I am thankful people are willing to do the job because I couldn't. You deal with everyone else's B.S. Even look at from a homesteading perspective, you have trespassers, problems with the neighbors dog or someone shooting guns at hours you find annoying who do we end up calling; Law enforcement. Why because it's easier for us to call the PD and have them deal with our neighborly problems than to deal with them directly. 

I wouldn't be surprised by the way law enforcement is being portrayed by the media these days that qualified applicants will start being in short supply in the future due to the way the profession has been stigmatized. It used to be that positions had dozens if not hundreds of applicants for law enforcement job. I can see those numbers dropping. 

So if we create a disdain for public safety officers that means less applicants which means less than the utmost qualified will be wearing a badge. So whose to blame the department that absolutely needs a position filled or ourselves for creating a stigma that if your an officer you must be a racist, corrupt and egotistical. 

My dad taught me three things when I was young which was be respectful, do what the officer says and always keep your hands in plain view. It seems these days people are almost trying to see how far they can push the limits of doing what the PSO asks because they have a cam and can hopefully get grounds for a civil lawsuit.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

But some choose to ignore how this is a Homesteading Topic. There are a lot of us on this board who live far away from any witnesses. There are a lot of us on this board who are raising unsual crops on our farms that make us suspects. 
There seem to be a lot of us on these boards also just a bit antisocial and do not deal well with government. 
So yes I think this is very much a Homesteading Topic.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> But some choose to ignore how this is a Homesteading Topic. There are a lot of us on this board who live far away from any witnesses. There are a lot of us on this board who are raising unsual crops on our farms that make us suspects.
> There seem to be a lot of us on these boards also just a bit antisocial and do not deal well with government.
> So yes I think this is very much a Homesteading Topic.


It still sounds more "GC" to me :shrug:

The cops have never come to my farm unless *I *called them


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Many of us who chose to live in rural areas are independent folks who don't want to put up with the BS that comes with living in close proximity to other people and want to minimize government interference in our lives.

Interaction with police, unless you initiated it, has no upside. The best you can hope for is a neutral outcome where you can walk away. 

Police are suspicious of everybody. They seem to assume that all citizens are crooks that have not been caught yet. The SCOTUS has ruled that cops can lie so they do so to make you obey their orders. They make a request sound like an order and most people will obey. Remember, they are looking for a reason to arrest you.

There are different reasons for wanting to be a police officer. Most officers are good people but there are bad ones out there. Let's say you are a sadistic individual who likes beating people up or just a power hungry idiot who likes to order people around. There is no better job for you than police officer. It's like the Boy Scouts attracting pedophiles to leadership positions. If someone files a complaint against you, the investigation is done by other police officers. They are not likely to find wrongdoing because they have to work with the other officers and there will be a lawsuit against the municipality they work for. Prosecutors and judges are predisposed in favor of police officers for the same reasons. The officer is not responsible for any judgement in civil court, the municipality is. Meanwhile the accused officer gets a paid vacation (suspended with pay). If the result of the complaint is anything less than a felony conviction, the police union ensures that the officer gets his job back. There is no downside for the officer for police misconduct except in rare cases.

Citizens generally are subservient to police officers because they know that the officer can always find some law that they are breaking or make up some charge. I love all the Youtube videos where the citizen is arrested for resisting arrest and no other charges are filed. If there is no reason to arrest you in the first place, then why are you being charged with resisting arrest? 

I have decided that, if I have an interaction with a police officer, I will be polite and respectful as long as he/she is.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Nimrod said:


> I have decided that, if I have an interaction with a police officer, I will be polite and respectful as long as he/she is.



That's a deadly plan. 
As most here will you need to stay calm cool very polite and respectful long after the cop has become ignorantly abusive if you want to live. Some will tell you it's your duty.


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## itsb (Jan 13, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It still sounds more "GC" to me :shrug:
> 
> The cops have never come to my farm unless *I *called them


the lottery board has never showed up at my place, but I think winning would have a lot to do with HQ. So would you ok that?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I think that since voice recording was available, we have all heard a carefully edited audio recording, taken out of context, that made someone sound evil or stupid. 

Many have seen edited clips that show people saying outlandish things. Without the context that it was said, the meaning can be turned around.

When you see a video on youtube, you get the shortened edited, out of context version.
Worse yet is the video that avoids the segment that led up to this event, but it cannot provide the verbal interaction that might make sense out of this event.

Recently, I heard that last year, about 50 people were shot by Cops and about 50 Cops were killed. Based on that, I'd think you wouldn't want to antagonize Cops that are on high alert. 

Often, people view interaction with Cops as an opportunity to be confrontational. Sometimes it is so you can brag to your friends that are witnessing or filming this. If you can ratchet up the emotion, create an on edge situation, you might be able to provoke a Cop into an over reaction. In the inner-city, that your path to a big payoff.

Recently, in Detroit, a city racked with violence, a group went to a mostly Black school to teach teens about interaction with Cops. I figured that they would be telling them about being polite, keep your hands where they can see them, answer their questions,

But instead, it was to teach them what circumstances can they refuse to get out of the car, refuse to answer a question, refuse to let the Cops search your vehicle. 

Loading these teens with complex do's and don'ts of the legal system and expecting them to properly interpret it in an emotionally charged situation, sounds like an escalation to me.

There are some youtube videos where guys pretend to be drinking beer in an area of no alcoholic beverages. Then they get real argumentative with the Cop. Another one they walk around the Park, with a bong. When questioned about this item of suspected drug paraphernalia, they do whatever they can to aggravate the Cops.

Swerving, driving too fast, out running the Cops, refusal to provide ID, refusal to get out of the car, resisting Cops, kicking Cops turned out badly for Rodney King. 
Pulling over when signaled, providing license and registration, keeping my hands on the steering wheel, keeping my mouth shut until asked has provided me with a lifetime of avoidance of Police beat down events. I recommend it.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

AmericanStand said:


> That's a deadly plan.
> As most here will you need to stay calm cool very polite and respectful long after the cop has become ignorantly abusive if you want to live. Some will tell you it's your duty.


What I meant was that I will be polite and respectful unless the police officer lies to me or becomes verbally or physically abusive. At that point I won't go postal or get into a physical altercation but I will cease to be cooperative and exercise me 5'th amendment rights.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Nimrod said:


> What I meant was that I will be polite and respectful unless the police officer lies to me or becomes verbally or physically abusive. At that point I won't go postal or get into a physical altercation but I will cease to be cooperative and exercise me 5'th amendment rights.



Yep we are gonna see you in the papers........


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Nine million views. 
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8NVvU6QaPs[/ame]


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

itsb said:


> the lottery board has never showed up at my place, but I think winning would have a lot to do with HQ. So would you ok that?


I wouldn't consider gambling a "homesteading questions" topic either.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

AmericanStand said:


> Yep we are gonna see you in the papers........


What would you do when a policeman becomes abusive, bend over and kiss his .....


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## Sidewinder (Apr 11, 2016)

AmericanStand said:


> Yep we are gonna see you in the papers........


Same way I saw Rebecca Zahau in the papers... can't tell me there's no such thing as a lyin' badge-sportin' greaseball, corrupt scumbag D.A. or slimy robed s0domite judge. The more honest citizens who grasp the concept of an out-of-control prison industrial complex, the better, it'll save tax dollars in the long run. Henry Makow said it best, the Internet is our first line of defense against these criminal badge-sportin' scum o' the earth and those greaseballs who routinely protect them.

"TYRANNY HAS NEVER HAD TO FACE INSTANT COMMUNICATION."

:bandwagon:


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> Yep we are gonna see you in the papers........


 So true, so many of these so called police haters will one day get their 15 minutes of so called fame, and then see it from the Other side of the bars as well. looking from the inside out at the world they think is so tough on them. We have laws in this country for a purpose, a lawless society is not a polite one.


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> This isn't a &quot;Homesteading Question&quot; topic


 If oppression under color of law is not a homesteading topic there will soon be no homesteading. The police in Arlington, Texas raided a coop organic farm destroyed tomato and other crop plants because they mistook tomato plants for marijuana. During the raid the police mistreated and brutalized those working on the farm. Police have mistaken okra, sunflowers, tomatoes and who knows what for marijuana plants and destroyed property and disrupted lives for their mistakes. Seems to me the problem affects homesteaders as much as anyone.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

I find a lot of these videos like when the football ref throws the flag for player A hitting player B. He did see the start of it when player B hit player A.

WWW


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Youtube videos are mostly for entertainment and personal agenda use only (although I once found an online tube video that helped me to master the note bending technique of blues mouth harp playing during a rainy spell of 4 days back in 2008) as folks only post what suits them or they are passionate about

Even with dash cams , body cams, traffic cams. helicopter cams and in some cases use of the Keyhole satellite cams that can read a newspaper headline from 27000 miles up (if no trees are in the way), many camera views must be collected and overlapped to for a more panoramic view and even then it's never a totally panoramic view. there are always gaps and questions.

Even with eye witness accounts , if there are 20 folks watching one person assaulting another there are 22 different perspectives from different start and stop points of varying duration and accuracy.

Each LEA must address their officer's performance and situation control tactics in the manner they are most capable to do so and even then it won't be considered perfect by someone because no monitoring means is perfect. All any can do is increase both field evaluation of LEO's and keep the LEO aware they may be scrutinized at any time by their agency or the agency above them in addition to the public.

With our agencies, a monitoring factor is the ride along portion of our Civilian Police Academy programs that are prerequisite to joining the Citizen's Police Auxiliary community relations programs that help support our local agencies.

Even our ride along portion of the orientation is incomplete because as civilians if the officer we are riding with responds to an incident they childproof style lock us inside the front seat of the patrol car for our safety and our field of view is limited to what the dash cam can record and some peripheral view if we look out the side windows or the obstructed view of the back seat partition.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

bjba said:


> If oppression under color of law is not a homesteading topic there will soon be no homesteading. The police in Arlington, Texas raided a coop organic farm destroyed tomato and other crop plants because they mistook tomato plants for marijuana. During the raid the police mistreated and brutalized those working on the farm. Police have mistaken okra, sunflowers, tomatoes and who knows what for marijuana plants and destroyed property and disrupted lives for their mistakes. Seems to me the problem affects homesteaders as much as anyone.


Oh, do tell.
I'm always interested in gaining as much information on such incidents as possible. Not that the NEWS gets it right, but do you have some sources for these incidents of police oppression?


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

haypoint said:


> Oh, do tell.
> I'm always interested in gaining as much information on such incidents as possible. Not that the NEWS gets it right, but do you have some sources for these incidents of police oppression?


 Local newspapers/broadcast suit you. The tone of you post suggests you may have made up your mind already.


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## JoePa (Mar 14, 2013)

Why can't we expect police to protect us while at the same time honor our rights as citizens of a free country - why should we put up with anything else - when pulled over for a traffic violation we are required to show our registration, insurance, and drivers license - that's it - any lawyer worth his salt will tell you not to answer any questions - it can only get you into trouble 

When walking downs the street and some cop approaches and asks for ID - like they did in Nazi Germany - you don't have to give him your ID - the cop can lie and tell you that you must but you don't have to - cops are allowed to lie and they often do - so you should know your rights 

Throughout history it is the agents of the government that have oppressed the people in countries like Russia, Germany, China, Cambodia and others - so people need to be vigilant so that does happen here in the US -many have fought and died so that you have certain rights - if you don't use them you will eventually lose them


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

bjba said:


> If oppression under color of law is not a homesteading topic there will soon be no homesteading. The police in Arlington, Texas raided a coop organic farm destroyed tomato and other crop plants because they mistook tomato plants for marijuana. During the raid the police mistreated and brutalized those working on the farm. Police have mistaken okra, sunflowers, tomatoes and who knows what for marijuana plants and destroyed property and disrupted lives for their mistakes. Seems to me the problem affects homesteaders as much as anyone.


I never said it wasn't a "homesteading" topic.
Words have specific meanings, and this site has specific divisions for topics

Anti-Govt rants go in GC


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> When walking downs the street and some cop approaches and asks for ID - like they did in Nazi Germany - you don't have to give him your ID - the cop can lie and tell you that you must but you don't have to - cops are allowed to lie and they often do - so *you should know your rights*


Some localities have statutes that require one to show ID when asked.
One should know their laws also


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

bjba said:


> Local newspapers/broadcast suit you. The tone of you post suggests you may have made up your mind already.


Just wanting to up grade it from random hearsay.


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## cornbread (Jul 4, 2005)

I don't trust a cop.

Remember way back when.....when they told us the police were our friends?

That ain't happening anymore people.

I don't trust a cop as far as I can spit and I'll never "befriend" one.

They're number 3 on my list of NOT to trust:

1) Politicians of any kind
2) Lawyers of any kind
3) Cops of any Kind, Branch, or Dept
4) ????? 

Busted! The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters
on you tude

It is also recommended by Massad Ayoob


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Ar...nd-Apology-From-Police-After-Drug-Raid-Comes-, http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/cops-mistake-tomato-plants-pot-article-1.1338781, [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvDxuk8HAco[/ame], http://modernfarmer.com/2014/10/georgia-police-raid-potential-marijuana-farm-find-okra/. Just a sample.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Rationalization is a powerful human emotion. Anyone can justify their actions, most of the time.
Starting out with the "I know my rights" attitude will raise the stress level. Sure you can refuse to show your ID. But if you've got nothing to hide, whip out your driver's license and go on with your life. 

Most of the situations that end badly started out with some jerk antagonizing or resisting Cops. You turn up the stress, turn up the emotion at your own risk.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

bjba said:


> http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Ar...nd-Apology-From-Police-After-Drug-Raid-Comes-, http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/cops-mistake-tomato-plants-pot-article-1.1338781, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvDxuk8HAco, http://modernfarmer.com/2014/10/georgia-police-raid-potential-marijuana-farm-find-okra/. Just a sample.


A building Superintendent calls the Cops on suspected pot on the roof, the Cops arrive, expecting pot. They take a look at it, remark it sort of looks like pot, but isn't, close their investigation. That is your example of "Police have mistaken okra, sunflowers, tomatoes and who knows what for marijuana plants and destroyed property and disrupted lives for their mistakes."? They don't even know who's tomato seedlings it is.

Then the okra plants, that to me look like pot plants, and the Cops show up, see that it isn't pot and go on their way. Another example of "Police have mistaken okra, sunflowers, tomatoes and who knows what for marijuana plants and destroyed property and disrupted lives for their mistakes."?

Wow, just wow.

The police brutality I see is when a suspected murder is in a home with his grandma, brothers and small child. The family refuses to let the Cops, armed with a warrant and battering ram, they come in and Granny tries to get the gun away from the Cop and a 4 year old girl gets shot in the face.

When Cops attempt to arrest a suspected murderer and he rushes them with a hammer and is shot. 

Cops chase down an absconded parolee after he tries to kidnap an old woman and her grandchildren, then steals her car. Cops do a foot chase and get him down. He refuses to put his hands behind his back, one officer holds the guy's face down, in the snow as the other cop struggles to get the guy's right hand out of his waistband. Woman video tapes it all, narrates the evil cops. When they get the guy up, he has a pistol in his waistband. Excessive force? Nope, not to me.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

I think most of this post is hogwash. Yes there are bad cops and some good cops who may go too far. I was actually suspended as one of the officers I supervised used excessive force and since I did not see it I did not stop it from happening....just the way things run in a para military organization. In all my twenty plus years as a cop in a big city I saw a small number of police brutality or police not allowing a citizen to express their opinions or claim their rights. Most, and I do mean MOST police officers are very responsible upstanding people who are doing their best in an ever increasing violent society. There are more the two choices of walk away or take action. You pay cops to take action even when they don't agree with the law they are enforcing. If we hear ever single day of a cop beating someone near to death that would be 365 times per year. How many cops respond to how many calls for service in one year. I can tell you it is way more than 365000 responses. So I consider that few brutality or rights denied issues to be pretty darned small and just wish all Americans would pull up their panties and get on with solving their own problems. (This is my personal opinion and I really do not care what anyone thinks about it) sis


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

cornbread said:


> I don't trust a cop.
> 
> Remember way back when.....when they told us the police were our friends?
> 
> ...


The former* cop*


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

haypoint said:


> A building Superintendent calls the Cops on suspected pot on the roof, the Cops arrive, expecting pot. They take a look at it, remark it sort of looks like pot, but isn't, close their investigation. That is your example of &quot;Police have mistaken okra, sunflowers, tomatoes and who knows what for marijuana plants and destroyed property and disrupted lives for their mistakes.&quot;? They don't even know who's tomato seedlings it is.
> 
> Then the okra plants, that to me look like pot plants, and the Cops show up, see that it isn't pot and go on their way. Another example of &quot;Police have mistaken okra, sunflowers, tomatoes and who knows what for marijuana plants and destroyed property and disrupted lives for their mistakes.&quot;?
> 
> ...


 As I thought your preconceived notions far out weigh any evidence. Your mind is made up and will not be changed. "There is none so blind as he who will not see". This man didn't have a waist band how do you justify this brutality? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/us/chamblee-georgia-police-shooting-anthony-hill.html?_r=1


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

bjba said:


> As I thought your preconceived notions far out weigh any evidence. Your mind is made up and will not be changed. "There is none so blind as he who will not see". This man didn't have a waist band how do you justify this brutality? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/us/chamblee-georgia-police-shooting-anthony-hill.html?_r=1


Yup. My mind is made up. If I'm naked, speaking in tongues, arms above my head racing at a police officer, I expect to get shot. 
Same as Ferguson, if I try to disarm a cop, then charge directly at him, I expect to get shot. 

After every critical event, we can, through stop action, critique everything. Its fairly easy. We know what is going to happen next, we know the outcome. We can make broad assumptions. Ever take the time to imagine what would have happened if the Cop hadn't shot the naked guy? Once the guy knocked on his back, what then? Take his gun? Pound his head into the concrete Trevon Martin style? Maybe he could have pulled a tazer on him. But we don't know if he had one. If he did, would it have stopped a crazy man? Was the nude guy on drugs?

In my list of " How to not get shot/beat up by the Cops" I think charging them head on is right there under point a gun at a Cop and above trying to take their weapon away. 

But this is also an example of why body cameras won't work. Two people watching the same event see two different things. If this event were on film, I'd see the cop protecting himself from assault, fully justifiable. But others think the cop should not have fired his gun. I don't exactly understand what else he could have done.

There is a youtube video showing pedestrians texting on their phones, stepping into traffic and being struck by cars, trucks, even busses. I watched it and thought, "Stupid people, didn't anyone ever teach them to look both ways before crossing the street?" But when I showed the video to a 23 year old college student, his remark was different, "Those people should learn to drive, pedestrians have the right away." He put the blame on the drivers. That's strange to me. 
But it is also strange that people act out against Cops and then are surprised when it turns out badly.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Threads like this are B.S.
There are millions of police interactions every day that are positive and quite helpful to citizens and go untalked about. In most occasions where a citizen is hassled, stuffed & cuffed, roughed up, etc. it is because they were out of line first, not the cops. And in high crime areas, cops tend to react a little swifter with physical restraint to prevent themselves from getting hurt or killed.

Sure there are a few disrespectful, bad cops out there but that is the rare exception, not the rule.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

haypoint said:


> Yup. My mind is made up. If I'm naked, speaking in tongues, arms above my head racing at a police officer, I expect to get shot. .



Yes let's just kill all the rape victims that will make our crime statistics look better. 
Just one more reason the populace perceives cops as out to get us. 

I think the general population expects the police to take risks to protect the general population.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

haypoint said:


> There is a youtube video showing pedestrians texting on their phones, stepping into traffic and being struck by cars, trucks, even busses. I watched it and thought, "Stupid people, didn't anyone ever teach them to look both ways before crossing the street?" But when I showed the video to a 23 year old college student, his remark was different, "Those people should learn to drive, pedestrians have the right away." He put the blame on the drivers. That's strange to me.
> .


Isn't he right don't pedestrians have the right away?

But I do agree with you about the stupid people. Because you have to protect yourself against other stupid people and we all know that most people are too ignorant to drive.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Nimrod said:


> What I meant was that I will be polite and respectful unless the police officer lies to me or becomes verbally or physically abusive. At that point I won't go postal or get into a physical altercation but I will cease to be cooperative and exercise me 5'th amendment rights.






Nimrod said:


> What would you do when a policeman becomes abusive, bend over and kiss his .....



YES !
You see I have learned the hard way that that is the critical point at which it becomes important to do exactly as you say and bend over and kiss his donkey. 

Don't get me wrong I'm not in favor of citizens having to live in fear of their servants but it is the reality of life today.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)




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## Elffriend (Mar 2, 2003)

haypoint said:


> Another example of "Police have mistaken okra, sunflowers, tomatoes and who knows what for marijuana plants and destroyed property and disrupted lives for their mistakes."?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/15/texas-swat-team-conducts-_n_3764951.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/14/marijuana-plants-police_n_5948122.html


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

haypoint said:


> A building Superintendent calls the Cops on suspected pot on the roof, the Cops arrive, expecting pot. They take a look at it, remark it sort of looks like pot, but isn't, close their investigation. That is your example of &quot;Police have mistaken okra, sunflowers, tomatoes and who knows what for marijuana plants and destroyed property and disrupted lives for their mistakes.&quot;? They don't even know who's tomato seedlings it is.
> 
> Then the okra plants, that to me look like pot plants, and the Cops show up, see that it isn't pot and go on their way. Another example of &quot;Police have mistaken okra, sunflowers, tomatoes and who knows what for marijuana plants and destroyed property and disrupted lives for their mistakes.&quot;?
> 
> ...


 Here are a few examples of police misconduct for you to explain away. There are many, many, many more that need explanation. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95475 Man shot during raid on wrong house. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/30/us/30lima.html mother and 14 month old baby shot during police raid http://www.mapinc.org/newscsdp/v08/n217/a07.html Law Enforcement frames citizens. http://www.mapinc.org/newscsdp/v07/n529/a01.html PROSECUTORS SAY CORRUPTION IN ATLANTA POLICE DEPT. IS WIDESPREAD http://www.cbsnews.com/news/botched...-92-year-old-woman-family-awarded-49-million/ http://www.mapinc.org/newscsdp/v05/n215/a02.html Five Deputies poised to plead guilty to beating, threatening and torturing prisoner http://www.mapinc.org/newscsdp/v05/n091/a06.html Cop convicted of perjury


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

bjba said:


> Here are a few examples of police misconduct for you to explain away. *There are many, many, many more *that need explanation. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95475 Man shot during raid on wrong house. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/30/us/30lima.html mother and 14 month old baby shot during police raid http://www.mapinc.org/newscsdp/v08/n217/a07.html Law Enforcement frames citizens. http://www.mapinc.org/newscsdp/v07/n529/a01.html PROSECUTORS SAY CORRUPTION IN ATLANTA POLICE DEPT. IS WIDESPREAD http://www.cbsnews.com/news/botched...-92-year-old-woman-family-awarded-49-million/ http://www.mapinc.org/newscsdp/v05/n215/a02.html Five Deputies poised to plead guilty to beating, threatening and torturing prisoner http://www.mapinc.org/newscsdp/v05/n091/a06.html Cop convicted of perjury


There are about 750,000 LEO's in this country who deal with millions of people each day

*Some* of them make mistakes

There are "many many many more" that don't cause any problems at all


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> There are about 750,000 LEO's in this country who deal with millions of people each day
> 
> *Some* of them make mistakes
> 
> There are "many many many more" that don't cause any problems at all


When "mistakes" result in death the citizens have every right to expect police to use lethal force as the very last resort. Police are to enforce the law not act as judge, jury and executioner. Police in the end are public servants not overseers. When "mistakes" result in false imprisonment citizens lives are ruined and innocents are caged because of fraud and lies.
Seems to me one such "mistake" is intolerable. Do we live in the "land of the free" those "mistakes" are certainly not actions of "the brave".


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Yes let's just kill all the rape victims that will make our crime statistics look better.
> Just one more reason the populace perceives cops as out to get us.
> 
> I think the general population expects the police to take risks to protect the general population.


When I said, "I'm naked, speaking in tongues, arms above my head racing at a police officer, I expect to get shot." I didn't mean that the Cop would shoot me because he might think I was about to rape him. I meant crazy man about to attack Cop. I don't want Cops wrestling every assaultive crazy person they encounter. You get close enough to be a threat, ignore Cop's orders to halt as you try to grab him, you get shot. That has worked for a good long while.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Do those that see the Cops being in the wrong all the time also see the drivers wrong in this video?
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_sAY_BHPNI[/ame]


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

bjba said:


> When "mistakes" result in death the citizens have every right to expect police to use lethal force as the very last resort. Police are to enforce the law not act as judge, jury and executioner. Police in the end are public servants not overseers. When "mistakes" result in false imprisonment citizens lives are ruined and innocents are caged because of fraud and lies.
> *Seems to me one such "mistake" is intolerable*. Do we live in the "land of the free" those "mistakes" are certainly not actions of "the brave".


Well I guess you must stay enraged all the time then.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

haypoint said:


> Do those that see the Cops being in the wrong all the time also see the drivers wrong in this video?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_sAY_BHPNI



See there you go making it something it isn't. 
Most of us don't say the cops wrong all the time. Just that when they are it's unacceptable to kill citizens. 
Just like all of the drivers were not wrong but some of them were and it's not acceptable to kill the citizens even once.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> See there you go making it something it isn't.
> Most of us don't say the cops wrong all the time. Just that when they are it's unacceptable to kill citizens.
> Just like all of the drivers were not wrong but some of them were and it's not acceptable to kill the citizens even once.


You see some wrong drivers. I only see careless pedestrians. You see Cops shooting people when they should have done some alternative action. I see Cops in a life threatening situation and reacting. It is my belief that all the people beat up or shot by Cops could have prevented their own injuries or death by not cranking up the drama, acting out, refusing reasonable orders. 

I believe that too often people want to decide if they want to obey the Cop's direction or mull it over or debate the order. The Cop reasonably looks at this as resisting. The drama ratchets up and up. Just suck it up, do what the Cop said and we'll straighten it out in the morning.

Perhaps my years of work maintaining a safe prison, I know what split second choices look like the following week. How easy it is to speculate how it might have gone with another approach. See, I've been there, front line, with some known killers. I had the benefit of backup close by, low chance that they have a gun, no chance that grandma or children are getting involved, that they can't hop in a car or disappear into a neighborhood. Every punch I've taken, everything thrown on me, could have been avoided, after watching the video of it. Hind sight is 20/20.


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## tamarackreg (Mar 13, 2006)

My CPL instructor explained it: 

Do what he says - give him what he wants. 

Take it up with his boss the next day. Get him fired. Sue the living sh17 out of 'em. AND the department. I don't care - JUST STAY ALIVE!


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Well I guess you must stay enraged all the time then.


Enraged? No, resigned to government corruption and considering strategies to avoid contact with government at every level.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Haypoint I see everyone of the pedestrians in the video as careless. 
I also see every one of the drivers in the video as careless 
I believe that some of each of them right and some of each of them were wrong. 
But I also noticed that all the pedestrians were hurt worse than the drivers. 
I think it is much the same when interacting with the cops.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Elffriend said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/15/texas-swat-team-conducts-_n_3764951.html
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/14/marijuana-plants-police_n_5948122.html


One story is about numerous reports from the community that pot was grown there. Not like the cops made up the story. Plus, no damage reported.
The other story is the same one where GA cops also acted on reports and helicopter sighting. No damage.

In places where real grow operations exist, they are often well armed. Showing up with Barney Fife will get you both killed. As criminals increase their weapons, Cops increase their protection from these criminals. Better to have protection and not need it than to show up and get killed. Not that hard to understand.


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

Try as you might justification will not work with the Arlington swat raid.
The swat team confiscated blueberry plants, Okra plants, tomatillo plants,
Sunflowers and native grasses. The farm was essentially destroyed.
The farm owner has filed suit for the damage. Where ever you heard there was no damage was in error. According to several reports the raid was actually over code violations. As an example the city of Arlington has an 
ordinance specifying the height grass may be. A raid was not necessary as the farm was open for purchases of produce and turf so all the cops had to do was walk around and look for the dreaded marijuana plants.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

I guess we are fortunate the local police have helped us many times with our mentally ill son. Small town everyone knows own everyone and I've only had good experiences with our PD. Been pulled over a few times through the years and last time was by a ST he asked if I knew how fast I was going. Told him I wasn't paying attention until I saw him and he let me go with a verbal warning. He said at least I was honest about it


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## JoePa (Mar 14, 2013)

There are thousands of instances on youtube showing cops out of line - it is only now that people have cameras people are seeing what is going on - complaining to a cop's superiors when a cop mistreats you is a joke - cops stick together and lie if they have to - I think citizens should record any contact they have with police and sue whenever possible - maybe they will get the message - we as a society must be vigilant so that these agents of government don't take our rights away - never answer any questions from a cop - exercise your right to remain silence -


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