# Can your boss fire you for refusing to get a COVID-19 vaccine?



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Can your boss fire you for refusing to get a COVID-19 vaccine? Yes.


Rogge Dunn, a Dallas labor and employment attorney, told CNBC many of his corporate clients are leaning toward making vaccines mandatory.




www.wwlp.com





"But some U.S. employees may not get out of the vaccine simply because they have doubts.

Rogge Dunn, a Dallas labor and employment attorney, told CNBC many of his corporate clients are leaning toward making vaccines mandatory.

“Under the law, an employer can force an employee to get vaccinated, and if they don’t take it, fire them,” said Dunn.

Dunn says that some businesses, like one of his restaurant clients, think being able to say all of its employees have been vaccinated could be good for business.

“They think it gives them a competitive advantage,” Dunn said.

While this may be more about luring customers than employee safety, it’s nonetheless within an employer’s right to require it, he said.
There would be exceptions, however. These would include workers who don’t want to be vaccinated due to medical reasons — protected under the Americans with Disabilities Act. If religious beliefs would be violated by vaccination, it’s possible an employee _could_ be covered under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Unionized workers may also be able to negotiate with employers.

The Pew survey also showed 71% of American adults think the worst of the outbreak is yet to come."


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

He'd have a hard time. The NY Times says there are 300 million in front of me to get the shots


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> The Pew survey also showed 71% of American adults think the worst of the outbreak is yet to come."


That illustrates how effective the media propaganda machine is.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

I remember back in the day when vaccinations were required for ALL children going to Kindergarten and shot records had to be up to date for school. Now we have parents who don't bother with shots (Don't want to debate the pros or cons of kids shots). So now, my employer can force me to get a vaccination? That will be decided in the courts IMO


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Can Your Employer Force You to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine?


An employer can make a COVID-19 vaccination a requirement if you want to continue working there, but there are significant exceptions.




www.aarp.org





"
"Employment in the United States is generally ‘at will,’ which means that your employer can set working conditions,” says Dorit Reiss, a law professor at the University of California, Hastings, who specializes in legal and policy issues related to vaccines. “Certainly, employers can set health and safety work conditions, with a few limits."
*What workers can do*
• Seek a vaccine exemption on medical grounds
• Seek a vaccine exemption due to religious beliefs
• Ask for alternative accommodations such as use of personal protective equipment, working separately or working from home
Those restrictions generally are tied to the federal Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, according to guidance the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) issued in March regarding workers’ rights during the pandemic, including vaccinations. If employees have medical reasons or sincerely held religious beliefs that prevent them from taking a potential coronavirus vaccine, employers could be legally required to give the workers some reasonable alternative to continue to work, Reiss says."


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

painterswife said:


> Can Your Employer Force You to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine?
> 
> 
> An employer can make a COVID-19 vaccination a requirement if you want to continue working there, but there are significant exceptions.
> ...


Another option for workers is to tell the boss to shove it and get another job. My boss would never try that on me because I am self employed and my wife would kick his rear if he tried that on me. Hope employers who do that have good insurance. If anything bad shows up from the vaccine, the boss could be found liable for forcing it on employees and I believe I read the vaccine makers have legal protection already.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I doubt they can force you to get this vaccination any more than they can force you to get a flu shot.
Covid-19 is not polio, it's not the measles, mumps or Rubella.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I read that unions would be exempt from being mandated to take the vaccine.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

no really said:


> I read that unions would be exempt from being mandated to take the vaccine.


I wonder how that came about?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

It is an interesting situation. It is settled law here in the US that employers and organizations can require vaccinations as long as they following the ADA and Religious exemptions. Yes, unions can negotiate but that too is not a guarantee against getting the vaccination.

The US is an " At will employment" country. This is very different say than Canada where they could not force you to get a vaccination as a requirement of employment.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

With thousands of people out of work, I'm sure employers won't have a very difficult time replacing workers who refuse to get a covid vaccine.

On the flip side, there are so many currently willing to get a vaccine that it will take nearly a year to get those done.

Maybe the issue will have gone to the supreme court before the vaccine is readily available. If it is like the tests, availability will depend greatly on your location, or your employers location.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yes, it will be a while before a mandate by an employer might be really tested until vaccines are more available.


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

painterswife said:


> It is an interesting situation. It is settled law here in the US that employers and organizations can require vaccinations as long as they following the ADA and Religious exemptions. Yes, unions can negotiate but that too is not a guarantee against getting the vaccination.
> 
> The US is an " At will employment" country. This is very different say than Canada where they could not force you to get a vaccination as a requirement of employment.



It's not quite that cut and dried in Canada. The Public Health Act gives the government the authority to create a mandatory vaccination program for all citizens. However, there is extreme reluctance to do so, and it is unlikely to occur in this instance, they are going to appeal to peoples sense of citizenship instead.

In the absence of a mandatory vaccination program, employers cannot unilaterally impose vaccination as a condition of employment, particularly if people have bona fide reasons for medical or religious exemptions. However, courts in Quebec have held that employers have a duty to provide a safe workplace, so they could suspend without pay an employee refusing vaccination until the threat of the pandemic is over. That's short of dismissal, but still a pretty strong consequence. 









Can An Employer Force Employees To Get The Future COVID-19 Vaccination? - Health & Safety - Canada


Since surfacing in Québec, COVID-19 has had its share of drawbacks for workers and employers, and continues to impose numerous human resource management and administration challenges.




www.mondaq.com


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## wil14 (Sep 13, 2020)

painterswife said:


> Can Your Employer Force You to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine?
> 
> 
> An employer can make a COVID-19 vaccination a requirement if you want to continue working there, but there are significant exceptions.
> ...


Yeah. This is one of the reasons that some people believe that political belief should be a protected class in the US putting it on equal footing with race or religion. If concerned about the vaccine, you'd probably be safest to hide behind religion and maybe preemptively start building a case that you're a Christian Scientist or Jehovah's Witnesses or similar "refuse medical treatment" sect.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> He'd have a hard time. The NY Times says there are 300 million in front of me to get the shots


You can have mine.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

It shouldn't even be an issue by next summer. The CDC estimates we have already had over 100,000,000 infections and that will likely double by next summer. That will mean at least 60 percent have immunity. If just 20 per cent take the vaccine we will reach herd immunity.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

painterswife said:


> Can your boss fire you for refusing to get a COVID-19 vaccine? Yes.
> 
> 
> Rogge Dunn, a Dallas labor and employment attorney, told CNBC many of his corporate clients are leaning toward making vaccines mandatory.
> ...


lol, I'm pretty sure that quoting any poll these days as a means of reinforcement is akin to quoting Mick Jagger about marital fidelity.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I am going to claim religious exemption. I am an Existentialist Freedom Fighter.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I am going to claim religious exemption. I am an Existentialist Freedom Fighter.


I am joining that army


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

HDRider said:


> I am joining that army


Works for me too.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

kinderfeld said:


> You can have mine.


Maybe employers should start requiring shots for other maladies too.
There are a lot of killer bugs out there.
Let's make a list.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

poppy said:


> It shouldn't even be an issue by next summer. The CDC estimates we have already had over 100,000,000 infections and that will likely double by next summer. That will mean at least 60 percent have immunity. If just 20 per cent take the vaccine we will reach herd immunity.


This isn't the chicken pox. You can get covid-19 again and again. Herd immunity may help but this isn't going away this easy.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

fireweed farm said:


> This isn't the chicken pox. You can get covid-19 again and again. Herd immunity may help but this isn't going away this easy.


Then why bother with the vaccine? If the immunity wears off and at least 70% of the world population cannot be innocculated before the immunity wears off this is all just a wasted effort.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

If I can fire myself it would be great. I can't draw unemployment though. I'm going to wait and see. I had someone in March tell me if Dad and I both die from coronavirus half the county was doomed!


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

fireweed farm said:


> This isn't the chicken pox. You can get covid-19 again and again. Herd immunity may help but this isn't going away this easy.



Got any proof of that? Every virologist or epidemiologist I've seen expects long term immunity from this virus. It is very similar to the SARS virus of 17 years ago and people who had it still have T-cell immunity. I'm not talking about antibodies. Those generally decline over time but antibodies are just one part of the immune system. T-cells are our body's long term immunity system.


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

poppy said:


> Got any proof of that? Every virologist or epidemiologist I've seen expects long term immunity from this virus. It is very similar to the SARS virus of 17 years ago and people who had it still have T-cell immunity. I'm not talking about antibodies. Those generally decline over time but antibodies are just one part of the immune system. T-cells are our body's long term immunity system.


I don't think getting re-infected is super easy right now, since there is some immunity. I believe the current thinking is that 3-4 months is the known immunity from having had the infection. There are some anecdotal accounts starting to surface of people being re-infected. But we are still only 9 months into it, so establishing the length of protection provided from natural anti-bodies (or the vaccination itself) remains to be seen. As you point out, the T-cell response is another dimension that has to be assessed. 

It wouldn't surprise me if the COVID vaccine becomes an annual thing, similar to flu shots. It's early days folks, and even though the vaccine is great news and a major milestone, this thing ain't a slam dunk.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Can your boss fire you for refusing to get a COVID-19 vaccine? Yes.
> 
> 
> Rogge Dunn, a Dallas labor and employment attorney, told CNBC many of his corporate clients are leaning toward making vaccines mandatory.
> ...


At will. Employers choice to fire, employees choice to work. I, personally, would never fire an employee for not getting an injection. But if you come to work wearing a pink ***** hat with a hammer and sickle, out the door you go! Oh, wait....


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The EU signed a contract with Pfizer for twice as many doses as the US. The EU is already administering the vaccine. The US has not yet approved the Pfizer vaccine for emergency use. 









Trump administration passed on Pfizer offer for more vaccine doses, could delay availability until next summer


While the Pfizer vaccine could possibly be approved for emergency use within the next week, the European Union has already entered into a contract with the makers for 200 million doses.




www.nbc4i.com


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Forcing someone to get a vaccine is rape.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> Forcing someone to get a vaccine is rape.


Does that mean that every person from another country that wants a green card and must get vaccinations to do that, is being raped by the US?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Danaus29 said:


> The EU signed a contract with Pfizer for twice as many doses as the US. The EU is already administering the vaccine. The US has not yet approved the Pfizer vaccine for emergency use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm far down on the list for the vaccine but my parents and grandparents aren't. They have decided to wait at least six months before considering the vac. Now before anyone screams about politics they are all democrats. This will give them some context on how the reactions will present.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I've read numerous articles on the vaccine and a couple things have caught my attention. There are an unstated number who have developed Bell's Palsy after and I'd like to know more about the group that experienced sufficient side effects that they were medically unable to take the second dose and what those side effects were. 

The last rushed vaccine was for Swine Flu in 1976 and for some, it had some rather astounding side effects. Those who had side effects were at one time, just considered collateral damage for the greater good until the collateral damage started class action lawsuits. 

I would very much like to see a safe and effective vaccine but out countries have set up protocol to ensure our safety that's is being skirted and I really hope that history doesn't repeat itself.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

4 people developed Bell's palsy and the FDA says it was not vaccine related.









Pfizer’s Vaccine Offers Strong Protection After First Dose (Published 2020)


The Food and Drug Administration’s first analysis of the clinical trial data also found that the coronavirus vaccine worked well regardless of a volunteer’s race, weight or age.




www.nytimes.com





But there were no cases in the control group. Not sure I would trust the FDA. 

Another article about it;









UK regulator dismisses Bell's palsy fears over Pfizer's Covid vaccine


The MHRA said that 'No vaccine would be authorised for supply in the UK unless the expected standards of safety, quality and efficacy are met.'




www.dailymail.co.uk


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Pfizer’s Vaccine Offers Strong Protection After First Dose (Published 2020)


The Food and Drug Administration’s first analysis of the clinical trial data also found that the coronavirus vaccine worked well regardless of a volunteer’s race, weight or age.




www.nytimes.com





"The F.D.A. concluded that there were no “meaningful imbalances” in serious health complications, known as adverse events, between the two groups. The agency noted that four people in the vaccinated group experienced a form of facial paralysis called Bell’s palsy, with no cases in the placebo group. The difference between the two groups wasn’t meaningful, and the rate in the vaccinated group was not significantly higher than in the general population. "

I read that all 4 cases resolved themselves within 10 to 21 days after the Palsy occurred.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

If your test group is small enough, you can't even GET statistically significant data.

Ever been to a circus sideshow?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Why vaccinate our most frail? Odd vote out shows the dilemma.



Why vaccinate our most frail? Odd vote out shows the dilemma



But there is also reason for concern. The Covid-19 vaccines have not been tested in the frail elderly, many of whom are residents of long-term care facilities.

"Since they haven't been studied in people in those populations, we don't know how well the vaccine will work for them. We know that most vaccines don't work nearly as well in a frail elderly person as they would in someone who is fit and vigorous, even if they happen to be the same age," Moore said.

"There's a question about the direct benefit of the vaccine, if given to people who live in those facilities, because we haven't studied how well it works in that group yet."


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

COVID-19 Vaccine Trial Shows Promise for Elderly


If the antibody responses seen in the study translate into protection against the infection, the results could mean the elderly -- the population that has been hardest hit by COVID -- could receive strong protection from the shot.




www.webmd.com





"If the antibody responses seen in the study translate into protection against the infection, the results could mean the elderly -- the population that has been hardest hit by COVID -- could receive strong protection from the shot. According to the CDC, eight out of 10 COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. have been in adults over age 65.

The vaccine, mRNA-1273, is made by the drug company Moderna, and it uses a new type of technology to coax the body to produce an immune response to the virus."


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> COVID-19 Vaccine Trial Shows Promise for Elderly
> 
> 
> If the antibody responses seen in the study translate into protection against the infection, the results could mean the elderly -- the population that has been hardest hit by COVID -- could receive strong protection from the shot.
> ...


Seems the article is saying the vaccines were given to 40 patients, did this group have the health problems most of the elderly have in nursing homes?


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Who has received this vaccine? Just wondering if the current president might have? I don't keep up on much...


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

The Paw said:


> I don't think getting re-infected is super easy right now, since there is some immunity. I believe the current thinking is that 3-4 months is the known immunity from having had the infection. There are some anecdotal accounts starting to surface of people being re-infected. But we are still only 9 months into it, so establishing the length of protection provided from natural anti-bodies (or the vaccination itself) remains to be seen. As you point out, the T-cell response is another dimension that has to be assessed.
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me if the COVID vaccine becomes an annual thing, similar to flu shots. It's early days folks, and even though the vaccine is great news and a major milestone, this thing ain't a slam dunk.



A study in October showed people who got infected back in Feb. still had a robust anti body response. So that is about 8 months, but you are right. We don't know how long they will last. From listening to experts explain past history from similar viruses I would expect the T-Cell response to last for years, maybe many years.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Thankfully I have both a union and a written contract. I am not willing to get any brand new vaccine unless there is a long history of data regarding long term side effects behind it. Nowhere in my job description does it say guinea pig.


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## 67drake (May 6, 2020)

painterswife said:


> Does that mean that every person from another country that wants a green card and must get vaccinations to do that, is being raped by the US?


They don’t HAVE to come here, it’s their choice.
If my employer MAKES me get a vaccination I’ll quit. 
Government MAKES me, Ill be moving to the hills and playing Rambo


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

67drake said:


> They don’t HAVE to come here, it’s their choice.
> If my employer MAKES me get a vaccination I’ll quit.


You illustrated my point. No one is forced to get the vaccine. They can get a different job.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

painterswife said:


> You illustrated my point. No one is forced to get the vaccine. They can get a different job.


How about the businesses you take care of? What are the employees choices?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

TripleD said:


> How about the businesses you take care of? What are the employees choices?


I don't make those decisions for the companies. There is a mask mandate though.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

painterswife said:


> I don't make those decisions for the companies. There is a mask mandate though.


So they don't have a choice unless they leave... Gets back to why I like my job!


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

CNN actually said not to worry if people die a day or 2 after getting the vaccination because it might not have anything to do with the vaccine and old people are in the late stage of life and die from all causes anyway. Why didn't they apply this logic to COVID?


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

HDRider said:


> I wonder how that came about?


Because it is not true


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

It's not safe to get vaccinated. Mail me a shot and I will mail back verification that I administered it.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

So, they can force you to take a vaccine because

_*“They think it gives them a competitive advantage,”*_ 

But they cant force you to stand up for a song at a ball game even though it's all about 

_*about luring customers*_ 

Does anyone see a double standard? 

Before anyone goes off on a tangent about the ball games I am just using this as a comparison of different freedoms that business owners are supposed to hold. Why is all of a sudden business people have freedoms again when they didnt just a few months ago? I think the writer of this article doesn't know his donkey from a hole in the ground. If the writer does know, then we have been lied to repeatedly.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

keenataz said:


> Because it is not true


Don't be so sensitive Union Man


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## vicki in NW OH (May 10, 2002)

My husband is a nurse for a Trilogy healthcare facility. They are not making it mandatory for either staff or residents to get vaccinated. If they would have made it mandatory, my husband’s doctor was going to give him a medical exemption. Doc doesn’t want his people to be guinea pigs. Wants to wait and evaluate for side effects and health issues that arise over a longer period of time.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Well here is a medical reason not to get the vaccine.









Allergy risk on Pfizer jab ahead of key FDA meeting tomorrow


Concerns have been raised over an allergy risk to the Phizer Covid-19 vaccine after two British healthcare workers suffered a reaction after receiving it on Tuesday.




www.dailymail.co.uk





"There are fears over how safe Pfizer's COVID vaccine is after two British healthcare workers who were among the first in the world to receive it on Tuesday went into anaphylactic shock hours later, prompting British authorities to tell anyone with a 'severe' allergy to food or medicine not to get it. "


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Walter Williams died last Wednesday and his reasoned, rational thoughts based on simple math and common sense will be greatly missed. 
You can find the link to his article below here Costs Must Be Weighed Against Benefits









*Costs Must Be Weighed Against Benefits*
One of the first lessons in an economics class is every action has a cost. That is in stark contrast to lessons in the political arena where politicians virtually ignore cost and talk about benefits and free stuff. If we look only at the benefits of an action, policy, or program, then we will do anything because there is a benefit to any action, policy, or program.

Think about one simple example. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates that 36,096 Americans lost their lives in motor vehicle traffic crashes in 2019. Virtually all those lives could have been saved if we had a 5 mph speed limit. The huge benefit of a 5 mph speed limit is that those 36,000-plus Americans would have been with us instead of lost in highway carnage. Fortunately, we look at the costs of having a 5 mph speed limit and rightly conclude that saving those 36,000-plus lives are not worth the costs and inconvenience. Most of us find it too callous, when talking about life, to explicitly weigh costs against benefits. We simply say that a 5 mph speed limit would be impractical.

What about the benefits and costs of dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic? Much of the medical profession and politicians say that lockdowns, social distancing, and mask-wearing are the solutions. CDC data on death rates show if one is under 35, the chances of dying from COVID-19 is much lower than that of being in a bicycle accident. Should we lock down bicycles? Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, biostatistician, and epidemiologist, Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University and an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician and epidemiologist were the initiators of the Great Barrington Declaration. More than 50,000 scientists and doctors, as well as more than 682,000 ordinary people, have signed the Great Barrington Declaration opposing a second COVID-19 lockdown because they see it doing much more harm than good.

Efforts to keep very young from getting COVID-19, given most will not even realize they have it or will suffer only mild symptoms, may be counterproductive in that it delays the point where a country has herd immunity. According to the CDC, COVID-19 deaths in young people (from babies to college students) are almost nonexistent. The first age group to provide a substantial contribution to the death toll is 45-54 years, who contribute nearly 5 percent of all coronavirus deaths. More than 80 percent of deaths occur in people aged 65 and over. That increases to over 92 percent if the 55-64 age group is included.

Thus, only a tiny number of people under age 25 die of COVID-19. Yet, schools have been closed, and tens of millions of schoolchildren have been denied in-class instruction. Mandating that 5-year-olds wear masks during their school day is beyond nonsense. Virtual learning can serve as a substitute for in-class teaching but it has mixed results. Some parents can provide their children with the necessary tools, perhaps hire tutors, and take an active interest in what their children are doing online. Other parents will not have the interest, ability, or the time.

Here is a lockdown question for you. Government authorities permit groceries and pharmacies to remain open during lockdowns. They permitted stores likes Walmart, Costco, and Sam's Club to remain open. However, these stores sell items that are also sold in stores that were locked down such as: Macy's, J.C. Penney, J. Crew Group, Neiman Marcus, and Bed Bath & Beyond. The lack of equal treatment caused many employees to lose their jobs and many formerly financially healthy retailers have filed for bankruptcy.

As political satirist H. L. Mencken said, "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." By the way, the best time to scare people, be wrong, and persist in being wrong is when the costs of being wrong are borne by others.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Reading through these posts, it amazes me how contradictory some of these posts are; how little we (the masses) truly know about this virus; how very reactive most governments are in handing out rules, and how the media has ginned everything up to get readership.


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Well here is a medical reason not to get the vaccine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It certainly bears watching. But at the same time, when I went to get my flu shot this year, they asked me if I had any known allergies, and then made me hang around for 15 minutes after the shot, to make sure I didn't faint or go into anaphylactic shock. So, presumably this will be administered in a similar fashion, and the risk of the adverse reaction remains pretty small.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Pfizer vaccine: UK issues allergy warning after nurses have reaction


The governing body for vaccines in the UK has issued new advice after two British nurses experienced anaphylactoid reactions to the Pfizer vaccine.




www.euronews.com





"Both nurses were said to have a history of reacting to vaccines in this way and carried adrenaline auto-injectors (injections which are to be administered in the event of an anaphylactic shock). "

It seems these women had a history of this with vaccines and still got the shot.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Given the fact that we have less than 60 days of data, how long is the vaccine known to protect someone?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

vicki in NW OH said:


> My husband is a nurse for a Trilogy healthcare facility. They are not making it mandatory for either staff or residents to get vaccinated. If they would have made it mandatory, my husband’s doctor was going to give him a medical exemption. Doc doesn’t want his people to be guinea pigs. Wants to wait and evaluate for side effects and health issues that arise over a longer period of time.


I agree with what you said but when I was an EMT they called us to a meeting and when we all got there they locked the door and said we could leave without getting the H1N1 vaccine but we would leave our state license at the door also. Otherwise we were not leaving without the vaccine. 

I had already took it so I just showed my "papers" and walked out anyway.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

painterswife said:


> Well here is a medical reason not to get the vaccine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am allergic to penicillin. I wonder if that is the medicine they mean? My mother is allergic to all kinds of medicine. I probably will be the same one day.


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## 67drake (May 6, 2020)

painterswife said:


> You illustrated my point. No one is forced to get the vaccine. They can get a different job.


Agreed. BUT if the government were to say we all have to be vaccinated, a LOT of people, like me, won’t do it, laws or not. The only way they’d inject me or my family is if they tied me down and did it against our will,Hence the rape!


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## 67drake (May 6, 2020)

GTX63 said:


> Walter Williams died last Wednesday and his reasoned, rational thoughts based on simple math and common sense will be greatly missed.
> You can find the link to his article below here Costs Must Be Weighed Against Benefits
> View attachment 92530
> 
> ...


Another article written using that old common sense thing.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)




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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

wr said:


> Given the fact that we have less than 60 days of data, how long is the vaccine known to protect someone?



I suspect it will last until TPTB say you need another one.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Mcdonald s is closed in are small town. More than the staff half positive for covid today


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Forcast said:


> Mcdonald s is closed in are small town. More than the staff half positive for covid today


Any word whether they were a spreader before they closed it? Just curious because I sometimes eat out for lunch because of work.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

nchobbyfarm said:


> Any word whether they were a spreader before they closed it? Just curious because I sometimes eat out for lunch because of work.



If they are like McDonald's here most of their staff is young people and turnover is very high. Young people congregate more than typical older folks. If they ever did a antibody test on every young person in the US, I would guess well over half have been exposed to the disease.


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## Grafton County Couple (Sep 20, 2018)

If there's no plan to make vaccination 'mandatory', why does the Department of Defense have 'shot cards' ready to distribute to everyone?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

painterswife said:


> COVID-19 Vaccine Trial Shows Promise for Elderly
> 
> 
> If the antibody responses seen in the study translate into protection against the infection, the results could mean the elderly -- the population that has been hardest hit by COVID -- could receive strong protection from the shot.
> ...


Is it a coincidence that 8 out of every 10 deaths in the US has been people over 65 for years? If you don't believe me, look at the daily obits in your local paper every day. You will see an occasional younger person who died in a car accident or of cancer or something, but the vast majority are over 65.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Employers can fire you for smoking prevent you being hiredfor being a smoker or having bad credit.


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## colourfastt (Nov 11, 2006)

Grafton County Couple said:


> If there's no plan to make vaccination 'mandatory', why does the Department of Defense have 'shot cards' ready to distribute to everyone?


DOD requires vaccinations for all active service members (as well as for civilian employees in certain (many? all?)) cases. I remember getting vaccinated for smallpox in boot camp; fortunately, I was one of a dozen or so who had already had the vaccine as a kid. So, in our cases, all we had was a couple of hours of redness, but it was worse for those who hadn't already been vaccinated (in fact 2 guys ended up being hospitalised with a mild case, and recycled back a week or two).


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

By Amanda Alvarado | December 18, 2020 at 11:46 PM CST - Updated December 19 at 1:19 AM

(Gray News) - Employers can require its workers to receive a COVID-19 vaccine and exclude them from the workplace if they refuse, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission said in guidelines issued earlier this week.
Employers are required by law to ensure a safe workplace and that can mean requiring its workers to be vaccinated.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

HDRider said:


> By Amanda Alvarado | December 18, 2020 at 11:46 PM CST - Updated December 19 at 1:19 AM
> 
> (Gray News) - Employers can require its workers to receive a COVID-19 vaccine and exclude them from the workplace if they refuse, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission said in guidelines issued earlier this week.
> Employers are required by law to ensure a safe workplace and that can mean requiring its workers to be vaccinated.


Big Brother has spoken. If you want to work without being self employed, you will have to take the vaccine. 

But fear not, they will allow insurance companies to raise the rates of self employed people's liability insurance that choose to not take the vaccine. Once you cannot afford your liability insurance, you will be out of business or run the risk of losing everything if someone says you infected them while delivering your service.

They will win either way.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

colourfastt said:


> DOD requires vaccinations for all active service members (as well as for civilian employees in certain (many? all?)) cases. I remember getting vaccinated for smallpox in boot camp; fortunately, I was one of a dozen or so who had already had the vaccine as a kid. So, in our cases, all we had was a couple of hours of redness, but it was worse for those who hadn't already been vaccinated (in fact 2 guys ended up being hospitalised with a mild case, and recycled back a week or two).


At this point the DOD is going to be giving the first vaccines to health care workers. Last I heard they are going to receive 44,000 initial vax's than the follow up 2nd vax of 44,000.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I would like to see a source of your information, hobbyfarm.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I would like to see a source of your information, hobbyfarm.


Alice, I do not have a link. It is mostly a combination of what I have been told combined with what I see coming. 

What I know is I had a side handyman business that I have had to suspend. I was first told to monitor myself or anyone I sent to customers houses and keep records of temperature checks to cover myself. Then I got my renewal and could not afford the increase. I don't do enough side work to justify paying the increase. 

Time will tell if I am correct....


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

It does say can and not must. 


At least so far anyway.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> It does say can and not must.
> 
> 
> At least so far anyway.


They open themselves up to liability suits if they don't

There will be a number of law suits after this is done. Class actions against big companies, and smaller suits against smaller businesses. 

Trial Lawyer lobby stopped Congress from putting liability protection in the Covid aid bill.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> They open themselves up to liability suits if they don't
> 
> There will be a number of law suits after this is done. Class actions against big companies, and smaller suits against smaller businesses.
> 
> Trial Lawyer lobby stopped Congress from putting liability protection in the Covid aid bill.


You didn't really expect a group packed with lawyers to pass anything limiting the ability to sue did you?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> You didn't really expect a group packed with lawyers to pass anything limiting the ability to sue did you?


Senate held out for it. House fought it.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Senate held out for it. House fought it.


Not surprising. One group of lawyers is looking out for defense lawyers for big business and the other group of lawyers is looking out for personal injury lawyers.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Apparently you can be fired for travelling over the holidays too;









Yes, your employer can fire you for traveling home for the holidays


Attorneys say it all comes down to your contract.




whnt.com


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