# House Cooling?



## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

The creek water thread got me to thinking.
The creek shouldn't be any cooler than ground temp so why not just run a water loop deep into the ground.
Isnt that what the geothermal coolings systems are?

Or go direct with air ducts run into the ground.
Has anybody looked into the various ways and ran the numbers?


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,
There is some stuff on Earth Tubes here: Passive Cooling Techniques

Lots of digging.

Gary


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Mildew can be a big nasty issue with 'air' tubes..........


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

fantasymaker said:


> The creek water thread got me to thinking.
> The creek shouldn't be any cooler than ground temp so why not just run a water loop deep into the ground...


Couple differences to consider:

1. Ground (dirt/rock) has about 1/2 the thermal denisty of water. While the starting temps may be the same the gound will heat up twice as fast as water.

2. With creek water you would always have fresh/cool water to use. Water that gets sent back flows on down the stream. With the ground once it heats up you're stuck with that.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

I can take you to creeks that are Ice cold year round.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

It would seem to me that if the creek was good and cold and the intake could be Above the elevation of the house It would make sense to use creek water cooling.
NO PUMP!
But once you have to start pumping it the creek attractiveness goes down and if you get past the siphon level of about 30 feet it is way less attractive thus the attractiveness of a closed loop system into the ground.

So which would take more energy for the same amount of cooling .
1 a circulating pump water system.
or
2 earth tubes with circulating fans?


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Ram pumps are not real efficient but the can pump to a tremendous head compared to mechanical pumps. just use more pumps to make up for the inefficiency of volume.

Since this this is a cooling scenario, cold weather would not factor.

Another option would be a spiral pump or a series of spiral pumps.

either option once built require no further energy inputs. save for some maintenance.

If you where smart you would then use a bit of electricity to pump some of the waste water into a elevated tank for you grey water,rather then running a deep well. the rest would then gravity drain back to the creek.

I could also see a potential refrigeration use also. worked into some kind of co system.

in a refrigeration scenario not to hard to distribute the cold but in the case of cooling I would use A coils (or multiple A coils) in a plenum or some kind of air handler.

Perhaps even have different zone set up to make it more efficient.

Add some passive heat/cooling options, solar chimney,tinted covered windows,out door kitchen,Ceiling fans. I'm sure a few other things could be done on top of those.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

after a little more thought, I got to thinking rather then a electric pump to fill a tank on the outlet side you could have a race way with a series of spiral pumps.

they may not pump a lot per hour but over the course of hours they could pump all you need on a daily basis.

I've also seen some really nifty alternators that they did away with the steel lamination's. Which also does away with a lot of the back EMF. if you equipped your spiral pumps with something like those,it may be possible to keep a small battery bank charged? if you where able to pump over the capacity of your tank you might also be able to incorporate a pelton wheel on the over flow?

if the water remained cool enough you could have a it drain through a deeper race way for trout, or maybe even just a small pond then irrigation from there.

I wish I had a stream! I would be trying some of this stuff...

easy way to eliminate the moisture issue in the tubes is to elevate the air intake.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

||Downhome|| said:


> I can take you to creeks that are Ice cold year round.


Spring fed no doubt


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

fantasymaker said:


> if you get past the siphon level of about 30 feet it is way less attractive thus the attractiveness of a closed loop system into the ground.


Ive red this before but it isnt true in my experience. 

I often use 150 feet of hose to syphon water out of fish tanks and into garden beds. Often the hose has a section going uphill as well, only mandatory aspect is that the outlet is lower then where Im getting the water from.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

When I had my fish farm I siphoned 10's of millions of gallons of pond water over pond dikes using 4" pvc pipe.


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## artificer (Feb 26, 2007)

Originally Posted by fantasymaker View Post
if you get past the siphon level of about 30 feet it is way less attractive thus the attractiveness of a closed loop system into the ground.



silverseeds said:


> Ive red this before but it isnt true in my experience.
> 
> I often use 150 feet of hose to syphon water out of fish tanks and into garden beds. Often the hose has a section going uphill as well, only mandatory aspect is that the outlet is lower then where Im getting the water from.


He didn't mean 30 feet of hose, he meant 30 feet of elevation. 14.7psi of atmosphere will only allow 34' of head height before you have a perfect vacuum. Depending on water temps, the water will boil before that, so you can only get 30-32 foot of lift with a siphon.

The only thing hose length affects is piping losses. The longer/smaller diameter the hose, the slower the flow. If the hose is too long, and the flow is very small with a large diameter hose, you can get air backfeeding into the line, which creates a bubble at the top of the siphon. Once you get a bubble, the siphon stops.

Downhome: are you talking about the spiral pipes that are driven with an undershot wheel? If so, these things are way too cool.

I REALLY like this guys pump, even if the pivot seal can use some work:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY-AQrWOjw4&feature=player_detailpage]PERPETUAL WATERWHEEL PUMP - YouTube[/ame]

Michael


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

my guess is if the water wheel just had a crank on it and ran a well cylinder and stuffing box, It would pump more water and higher heads,


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

yes Michael. 

you see the method in my madness?

I think FHM may have a touch of insanity too... I mean he could be on to something.

those spiral pumps can really move some water though. 

I have intentions of trying a slightly modified one driven by a windmill. have a pond at a low elevation and a hill. just not any current to drive the wheel.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

silverseeds said:


> Spring fed no doubt


Or snow melt in the mountains.


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