# Bottle Jaw



## aleefarms (Jul 23, 2014)

The purpose of this post is just to share my personal experience with an issue that seems to confound many who are new to shepherding. I want to make it clear I am not a vet and am just sharing what works for me!

I've read post on this forum and others where people notice bottle jaw, deworm and watch for swelling to dissipate. Maybe it does and everything is ok. Maybe it gets worse and they begin to question, is my wormer failing? Was it old? Did I under dose? Should I worm again..increase the dose? While these are legitimate questions there is only one way to find the truth. You need fecal examinations and there are two options. Get a vet or learn to do the yourself. 

Now I want to share what is killing sheep and the measures that I have used successfully. Bottle Jaw is the result of anemia and that is what you have to get turned around before death occurs. The fluid you can see in the neck and jaw doesn't compare to the fluid building in the cavity and detrimental to the internal organs including the heart and lungs. There is probably someone who will argue some of my ingredients are not necessary or even dangerous but they have worked for me. I believe you have to be aggressive. I put my sheep in a stall with a buddy to cut down on the stress of isolation. Provide clean hay and water. I do the following once a day.

1) fortified vit b complex 6ml orally for 10 days

2) b12 injections IM 3ml for 10 days

3) mix 1/2 cup apple cider vinegar, 1/2 cup red cell, 1/2 cup molasses and drench 30ml per 100# for 3 days

I hope this helps someone who has become frustrated when they lost a sheep or goat after deworming only. There are others who probably can add to this or may say there is too much copper in red cell and I am not saying that is not true but I am saying it has worked for me.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

I can agree with you aleefarms. We had a handful of girls with bottle jaw and we did something similar to what you have recommend. The girls did a complete turn around and needless to say, are doing well to this day. Knock on wood!

We used 3ml red cell per hundred pounds, apple cider vinegar, b12 and believe it or not 10ml of butter milk. We did this for 3 consecutive days. After two weeks, we went back and hit the girls again with Cydectin.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> 1) fortified vit b complex 6ml orally for 10 days
> 
> 2) b12 injections IM 3ml for 10 days
> 
> 3) mix 1/2 cup apple cider vinegar, 1/2 cup red cell, 1/2 cup molasses and drench 30ml per 100# for 3 days


Those things will help with alleviate the symptoms of the edema, and reverse the anemia but don't do anything for the root cause, which is most often a severe Barberpole worm infestation.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

That is true and with barber pole worms you would also use a dewormer, just as we did and hit them again 2 weeks later. I hate barber pole worms!


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

If they have gotten far enough long to have bottle jaw, it is worthwhile to use two different dewormers immediately. Since they use different metabolic processes, it is safe to use two or even all three of the different chemical families at once.

1) Ivermectin/Cydectin
2) Levamisole
3) Valbazen/Safeguard

Use the regular dosage for each. Keep stress to a minimum and make certain they have access to sufficient nutrition and water.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

We used Dectomax injection - Cydectin oral - Prohibit oral.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

I am not a vet. But, using dectomax and cydectin at the same time in the recommended dosages may be touchy since they both work similarly.


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## aleefarms (Jul 23, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Those things will help with alleviate the symptoms of the edema, and reverse the anemia but don't do anything for the root cause, which is most often a severe Barberpole worm infestation.



The very first thing I addressed was the worm infestation. The purpose of the post was, as stated to help new shepherds. As I said, from previous post, there is evidence that some people deworm and deworm and deworm without seeing success in a reduction of the bottle jaw meaning there are symptoms of an anemic animal that is in need of something other than poison pushed down their throat.


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## backachersfarm (Jun 14, 2005)

Very good info aleefarms. Barber poles are the only worm that will cause bottle jaw. They just do it a lot faster with poor chances of survival.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

Our girls that had bottle jaw made a come back. Knock on wood! And we did what we mentioned above. We can only speculate and share information that works and doesn't work. 

I did forget one other thing! We also used apple cider vinegar in their water tanks. We no longer have bottle jaw and everything is doing just fine! It was a close one though and almost lost a few.


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## billinwv (Sep 27, 2013)

Studies in our area have shown levamisole and copper wire boluses used together to be the best de-wormer for now. Md test station trials on sheep and boar goats.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

As I stated previously, I am not a vet:

Dewormer resistance is a serious problem. But, bear in mind that it is farm specific. If none of your animals have been treated with a dewormer that is not effective at all at the Maryland test station or the farms that they have evaluated does not mean that it isn't effective on your farm. Provided your livestock is native to your farm.

Worms don't travel on their own. They are carried from farm to farm by livestock. So, if a dewormer doesn't work on a farm two miles down the road, it is not indicative that it won't work for your farm.

Copper bolus coupled with a chemical dewormer is very effective and has been proven so in numerous lab tests, even on worms that are resistant to all chemical based dewormers. But, it is a pain in the behind for the farmer and the animal, at least in my experience. So, you will have to evaluate for yourself what works on your farm and for your operation.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

aleefarms said:


> The very first thing I addressed was the worm infestation. The purpose of the post was, as stated to help new shepherds. As I said, from previous post, there is evidence that some people deworm and deworm and deworm without seeing success in a reduction of the bottle jaw meaning there are symptoms of an anemic animal that is in need of something other than poison pushed down their throat.


I realize you mentioned worms, but then you said:



> Now I want to share *what is killing sheep*


It's the worms that are killing them, and the edema and anemia are symptoms.

The worm problem has to be resolved first, or no amount of dietary supplementation will help.


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## aleefarms (Jul 23, 2014)

Bearfootfarm,

I see where you post in every topic inside these forums so evidently you are an expert on everything. Perhaps new shepherds just need your phone number. As I said again the first thing addressed was reducing the worm load which causes the killer (which you call a symptom) ANEMIA. The supplements, as you called them, repair Iron-deficiency anemia (shortage of blood). Specifically it is a shortage of haemoglobin, the red pigment in red blood cells that carries oxygen. The shortage makes the sheep short of breath and weak. When severe it causes heart failure the absolute true killer of sheep. 

This was a post to help the posters that I mentioned who had wormed and wormed and wormed and still lost their severely anemic animal. If you have trouble understanding there is nothing more I can say. 
If you think my post has no value just ask and I will take it down.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

@ aleefarms - you posted a good topic and those that are getting into sheep and as we all are learning, your information is informative and helps others in my opinion! Lets move on guys! Everyone here learns something new each day and even the best of the best shepherds will tell you that learning is never ending in the sheep business. Roll Tide aleefarms!


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## DaveyBeardy (May 23, 2016)

All, first we would like to wish all a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. 

Now, I did not see it addressed but if it has, my apologies. 

Bottle jaw is caused in ruminants by the lack of ability to absorb protein (vet answer). The most common cause is haemonculi (barber pole) anemia. 

I offer all a tried and true formula to speed in recovery once your treatment (Cydectin...) cycle has been successful. 

Give this oral drench 2-3 times daily and decreasing as positive results present. 

1/3 Corn oil
1/3 Corn Syrup
1/3 Molasses

I keep a mixture on hand already in a wide mouth canning jar so I can drop an immersion blender in right before I draw up from my drench gun. 
Basically, the stuff separates when left to stand for about 10-20 min (depending on temp), just like oil and vinegar dressing (temporary emulsion). 

5ml 'ish for -3 month lamb 10ml 'ish for 65# and over. Exact dosing NOT required. 

Disclaimer: this stuff is like crack for sheep and goats. 

Results in 2 days.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

billinwv said:


> Studies in our area have shown levamisole and *copper* wire boluses used together to be the best de-wormer for now. Md test station trials on sheep and boar goats.


Copper is fine for goats, but toxic to sheep.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

aleefarms said:


> Bearfootfarm,
> 
> I see where you post in every topic inside these forums so evidently you are an expert on everything. Perhaps new shepherds just need your phone number. As I said again the first thing addressed was reducing the worm load which causes the killer (which you call a symptom) ANEMIA. The supplements, as you called them, repair *Iron-deficiency anemia *(shortage of blood). Specifically it is a shortage of haemoglobin, the red pigment in red blood cells that carries oxygen. The shortage makes the sheep short of breath and weak. When severe it causes heart failure the absolute true killer of sheep.
> 
> ...


It's better to give injections of Iron Dextrose since the animals digestive system is already severely damaged.

Red Cell contains high levels of copper which is toxic to sheep.

The edema is a result of a protein deficiency called hypoproteinemia, not an Iron deficiency.
The Iron deficiency is from the loss of blood to the worms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoproteinemia



> Hypoproteinemia (or hypoproteinaemia) is a condition where there is an abnormally low level of protein in the blood.
> There are several causes and all result in *edema* once serum protein levels fall below a certain threshold.


The protein deficiency is due to the inability of the animal to absorb food through the damaged intestines.

It all comes back to the worms 


> https://www.addl.purdue.edu/Newsletters/2011/Fall/Haemonchus.aspx
> 
> Animals with haemonchosis have marked pallor of mucous membranes and internal tissues. A characteristic gross lesion is widespread subcutaneous edema. This may be most striking in submandibular soft tissues, producing the so-called "bottle-jaw" (Fig. 1).
> 
> Edema is concentrated in the submandibular soft tissues because the head is often dependent in grazing animals. Hydrothorax, hydropericardium, and ascites are other sequelae of *hypoproteinemia* as is* edema* of the abomasal mucosa. Lymph nodes draining the abomasum may double in weight within five days of infection.





> I see where you post in every topic inside these forums so evidently *you are an expert on everything*.


Feel free to show what I said is incorrect.

I've made no claims about being an expert, I don't post in "every topic" and I only commented on the actual topic.


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## manolito (Apr 7, 2013)

Worms are the cause bottle jaw the results of the cause. I never saw an outbreak of any kind being cured by calling each other names. 

The life cycle is well known and usually the worms are brought into herds by new members. The worm life cycle is becoming drug resistant in some areas.

Two places to look for new ideas is South Africa and Australia. First they have many drugs not available to us in the US because our Vets can not prescribe them. 

http://www.jackmauldin.com/FAMACHA_Postels.pdf Ask your local professionals if there is a class teaching this approach. I think there is a real future for this approach. One question to answer is are you color blind? 

Keep safe and enjoy the life we have chosen.


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