# Paleo Diet



## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

Has anyone tried this diet, and if so how did you feel the first few days? I have been feeling terrible, and I'm not sure if it's the diet or I have a bug of some sort. Thanks.

Nomad


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

For me, it was no big deal. But then, I'd already been low carb for most of two years. 
I DO remember the Atkins Flu the first week or so of low carb, though.


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## HTG_zoo (Apr 18, 2011)

The first few weeks can be hard. I had to go on a potassium supplement and increase carb intake. I was on a similar diet under a doctors care, felt terrible at first but after a while I adjusted and felt better then before I started.


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## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

I have been stumbling around the house like a zombie, falling asleep 4 or 5 times a day and even though it was almost 80 degrees yesterday I was cold and was wearing sweats. I decided that I didn't want to feel that way any longer, so I ate some chips and pretzels last night. Then I had a cup of coffee this morning about 3 hours ago. I feel like myself again. I was supposed to be working on getting rid of stuff in the garage this week and so far I've been unable to do anything more than sit. I'm not sure if I should continue the diet or not. If I thought I'd feel better in a day or so I'd continue. But there is no way I could feel like that for a week or two. The way I have been looking and acting has worried the wife as well. I haven't eaten today, so I need to decide before I do.

Nomad


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## 10kids (Jun 24, 2010)

I have done it and the first week was exactly as you are describing, but after that I began to feel good and then great. I combined it with a regular pace - no running or winding - walk for 30 minutes per day. I lost 60 pounds in 5 months at age 51.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

You're making a BIG change. Going from running on regular doses of sugar (carbs) throughout the day to running on fat and ketones. 
You need to remind yourself that those doses of sugar really aren't a _good_ thing, even if the shift is difficult... Detox is hard whether it's booze, drugs, or carb-age that you're trying to get out of your system. :shrug:

I think I took about four or five days, personally, to shake the "flu."


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## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

ErinP said:


> You're making a BIG change. Going from running on regular doses of sugar (carbs) throughout the day to running on fat and ketones.
> You need to remind yourself that those doses of sugar really aren't a _good_ thing, even if the shift is difficult... Detox is hard whether it's booze, drugs, or carb-age that you're trying to get out of your system. :shrug:
> 
> I think I took about four or five days, personally, to shake the "flu."


I guess I'm not as strong as everyone else. I had some potatoes and a little stuffing with my chicken chest last night. I don't want to feel that way anymore. So I'll do a modified version and maybe get to where I can cut out the bad stuff in time. I suppose any improvements I make to my diet will be a benefit. But I have too much to do right now to just sit or lay around almost in a coma. 

Nomad


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

I guess I'm willing to suffer for a few days, given how much better I feel when I come out the other side!


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## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

I tried again yesterday and stayed on the diet with the exception of a cup of coffee with creamer and sugar in the morning. It must have been enough to keep me from feeling bad, although I was feeling pretty tired by late day. I just hope it didn't ruin the diet, because I'm going to do it again today.

Nomad


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

don't beat yourself up over not going cold turkey into the diet! nothing wrong with easing into it. you've made a great start, nevertheless!


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

Nomad said:


> *I guess I'm not as strong as everyone else*. I had some potatoes and a little stuffing with my chicken chest last night. I don't want to feel that way anymore. So I'll do a modified version and maybe get to where I can cut out the bad stuff in time. I suppose any improvements I make to my diet will be a benefit. But I have too much to do right now to just sit or lay around almost in a coma.
> 
> Nomad


stop that self beating up this is not a contest nor are you being graded, this is about YOUR health, and yeah, some people have things that have to get done, and being able to do the job well matters. if a person waits to change their diet until they can lay around for a week--that is stupid, and the diet will never get changed

you're doing awesome, you're understanding what's going on, and you're eating better.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Nomad, 
If I remember correctly, isn't Cordain one of the proponents of 80/20? That is being on track only 80% of the time?


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## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

ErinP said:


> Nomad,
> If I remember correctly, isn't Cordain one of the proponents of 80/20? That is being on track only 80% of the time?


The book lists three stages. The first one you can eat three normal meals a week, the second one you can have two meals and the third only one meal. I try to do the one that will do the most good and feel like if I eat regular stuff the diet won't work. It feels like I'm cheating and going backwards if I do that. I've felt pretty good the last two days and the only thing I'm doing differently is adding one cup of coffee in the morning. The rest of the day I eat what I'm supposed to. I'll weigh myself tomorrow and see if I've done any good.

Nomad


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## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

Now I'm really upset. After pretty much sticking to the diet for a week and if nothing else, eating way less calories, I have GAINED 2 1/2 pounds. I think I have wasted my time and money for nothing. The book said I should have lost weight even though it would have been mostly water weight. I would have been happy with a tiny loss or maybe even staying the same, but gaining??? And it's not the scale, because it was new four months ago.


Nomad


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## Elffriend (Mar 2, 2003)

I'm not completely familiar with Paleo, but with any low carb diet eating off plan will set you back. You didn't stick to the diet for a week. You ate potatoes, stuffing, chips and pretzels. You had sugar in your coffee. Even a little in the beginning is not a good idea. If you want to slowly work your way into it, that's fine, but you can't expect to see results unless you're really following the plan.


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## crtreedude (Jun 14, 2006)

One thing I do which I find works very well (who knows what the diet would be called) is to eat very little for two days until the energy levels tend to drop, then eat normal for a day, not pigging out, just normal, then back. This keeps the energy levels up and also let's me enjoy myself a bit occasionally.

This is especially important when you have a lot to lose, because eventually you can reach a point where your body is fighting you because it thinks you are in a famine or something, so wants to conserve everything it has.

I find I have the most energy when I am eating the bare minimum about every two to three hours. For example, 2 eggs, a cup of V8. Then, I go until I start getting a bit dizzy from not having food, then do it again. Hunger is a given. :lol:

I won't do this more than three days, and then a day or two of normal. The other thing is that in the past, my problem was I lose weight, then gain it back because I didn't know how to stop the creep of the scale. Now, when it starts to go up, well it is a couple of days of very few calories to get back on track.

I currently weigh 190 lbs, my top was 270 lbs, about 10 years ago.

just my two cents.


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## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

Elffriend said:


> I'm not completely familiar with Paleo, but with any low carb diet eating off plan will set you back. You didn't stick to the diet for a week. You ate potatoes, stuffing, chips and pretzels. You had sugar in your coffee. Even a little in the beginning is not a good idea. If you want to slowly work your way into it, that's fine, but you can't expect to see results unless you're really following the plan.


The book says you can go off the diet three times in a week. I may have eaten things that weren't on the diet, but I didn't eat much and from what I understand those things should have allowed me to still lose. But I do know one thing, there is no way based on the amount of vegetables I ate that I should have gained weight. I lost my first 20 pounds doing it my way. Maybe I need to do it that way again. I suspect that not all diets are suited for all people.

Nomad


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

But your way wasn't working anymore, remember?
You've been at this less than a week and you're ready to throw in the towel?

Are you sure you're not looking for a magic bullet?


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## Elffriend (Mar 2, 2003)

I absolutely agree with you that all diets are not for everyone. If I had to do high carb, low fat my blood sugar would be sky high. If I had to do low calorie I'd be hungry and miserable all the time. Yet things like Weight Watchers work for some people. I needed something I could live with long term. Low carbing is what's done it for me.

I think the problem you ran into was dealing with what some low-carbers call "induction flu" after the Atkins induction phase. On Atkins, induction is the first two weeks of the diet where you eat 20 grams of carbs or less/day. When you first start eating that way your body will take 2-3 days before it begins to switch over from using glucose as the primary fuel source to using ketones. Around days 3-5 you feel AWFUL. For most people by the end of the first week they are feeling better and by the beginning of the 2nd week they feel GREAT and full of energy. Is getting into ketosis part of the paleo plan?


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## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

No matter what anyone says, I did what the book told me too except for a little bit of stuff that I had and not only didn't I lose, I gained. That's my issue. I doubt if I was eating 1500 calories a day, so there's no way I should have gained. Something has gone awry. 

Nomad


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## Betho (Dec 27, 2006)

Timely thread! 

Yesterday I made the decision out of nowhere to go paleo, and I went cold turkey.

I'm 14 weeks pregnant and practically an invalid. I can't barely make it a few hours before feeling faint and seeing spots. My kitchen is stacked to the ceiling with dishes, the kids run around dirty, and it's literally all I can do to wash a few dishes so I have someway to throw some dinner together. Everybody tells me this is JUST NORMAL and I should just REST and LISTEN TO MY BODY. Well, I am, and my body is telling me that something is not right. My body was designed to bear children, I shouldn't be so lethargic and listless all the time, and having blood sugar crashes every few hours. Yesterday I went to the grocery store and when I was there I was so faint and dizzy that I actually went to starbucks and got one of their awful sweet iced mochas just so that I'd be okay for the 20 minute drive home. Inevitably, I had a major crash afterwards and was about useless the rest of the day. It's ridiculous.

My doctor thinks it will pass since my bloodwork is normal, but I just am not going to accept that I have to live like this potentially for the next 6 months! That's not me - I'm normally a very busy productive person and I keep a relatively tidy home. This pregnancy is killing me... lol. I've been feeling lately that part of why I'm feeling this way, especially past the 1st trimester, is because of my diet. I eat a clean diet, but it's heavily grain based.

So, I decided to cut out processed sugar and grains yesterday. My body has been telling me often that I need more protein, and I think eating a high fat diet will help sustain me longer than just an hour or two at a time. Cold turkey - after I'd just grocery shopped! I think I'm crazy. Maybe crazy, but desperate. So this week will be a challenge until I can grocery shop again, and I'm sure glad I have 6 dozen eggs from my hens in the fridge! But I am absolutely desperate to get ME back again, and from the testimonials I'm reading it will really help with that. I'm going to commit to giving it a month and see if I feel better. I've always loved sweet baked things, and I thought it would be tough to give those things up but I think in the long run I'll be okay with it. I guess we'll see. We went out for Mexican today and I wasn't hardly tempted by the chips, had a taco salad with sour cream & guac and had no problems not eating the shell.


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## Betho (Dec 27, 2006)

Nomad said:


> No matter what anyone says, I did what the book told me too except for a little bit of stuff that I had and not only didn't I lose, I gained. That's my issue. I doubt if I was eating 1500 calories a day, so there's no way I should have gained. Something has gone awry.
> 
> Nomad


PS - I gain weight if I only eat 1500 calories. Seriously. When I was actively trying to lose weight I had to eat 1900 MINIMUM in order to keep my body from trying to hoard that fat. I didn't believe it until I got a GoWear Fit and saw actually how many calories I was burning. This as a 30-ish woman and at the time I weighed about 260, I'm 5'5. Now, I'm sedentary because of the above issues, and at my age and weight the numbers say I still burn more than 2000 calories and that doesn't count the extra I burn being pregnant.

Check out this calculator - http://caloriecount.about.com/cc/calories-burned.php

Make sure you aren't eating less than a 500 calorie deficit - that is, if you are burning 2200 calories per day, you should have 1700 minimum, etc. That may be the issue... I have no idea if you are a 5'2 sedentary woman or a 6'2 moderately active man, but trust me it makes a difference.


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## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

Betho said:


> PS - I gain weight if I only eat 1500 calories. Seriously. When I was actively trying to lose weight I had to eat 1900 MINIMUM in order to keep my body from trying to hoard that fat. I didn't believe it until I got a GoWear Fit and saw actually how many calories I was burning. This as a 30-ish woman and at the time I weighed about 260, I'm 5'5. Now, I'm sedentary because of the above issues, and at my age and weight the numbers say I still burn more than 2000 calories and that doesn't count the extra I burn being pregnant.
> 
> Check out this calculator - http://caloriecount.about.com/cc/calories-burned.php
> 
> Make sure you aren't eating less than a 500 calorie deficit - that is, if you are burning 2200 calories per day, you should have 1700 minimum, etc. That may be the issue... I have no idea if you are a 5'2 sedentary woman or a 6'2 moderately active man, but trust me it makes a difference.


Thanks for the calculator. It says I should be burning 2250 calories per day. I was not aware that there was a 500 calorie deficit thing. Science says if you burn more than you eat you should lose weight. I guess I'll never understand what really happens. I'll try to watch what I eat, stay within the 500 calorie limit and walk on the treadmill.

Nomad


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## Elffriend (Mar 2, 2003)

Have you tried using www.fitday.com? It's free. You can type in everything you eat and it will show you your daily totals of calories, fats, carbs, protein and assorted nutrients. You can set goals for yourself and it will tell you how on track you are.


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## Betho (Dec 27, 2006)

Nomad said:


> Thanks for the calculator. It says I should be burning 2250 calories per day. I was not aware that there was a 500 calorie deficit thing. Science says if you burn more than you eat you should lose weight. I guess I'll never understand what really happens. I'll try to watch what I eat, stay within the 500 calorie limit and walk on the treadmill.
> 
> Nomad


I know, it does sound weird! I didn't understand why either, but it worked. When I was actively trying to lose weight (I'm still overweight but not trying to lose more at the moment) I did so much research and I read so many people say you shouldn't shoot for more than a 500 calorie deficit because then your body can't run very efficiently.

In my weight loss, I wanted my body to function as efficiently as possible - losing WEIGHT wasn't my goal, but losing FAT was, and I knew if I didn't keep it fueled enough that I'd lose a lot of muscle along with my fat. I don't understand the science behind it, but it does make sense to me that my body would need a minimum amount of fuel to power it.

I know this might sound like a weird comparison, but I think of it like my laying hens. If they are given enough fuel, they give me an egg every single day. If I want to cut back on the food they eat, they will still be okay but I won't get as many eggs. So if I am trying to cut back, I need to figure out the balance between feeding them less but still feeding them enough so their bodies can produce an egg a day.


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## Betho (Dec 27, 2006)

Elffriend said:


> Have you tried using www.fitday.com? It's free. You can type in everything you eat and it will show you your daily totals of calories, fats, carbs, protein and assorted nutrients. You can set goals for yourself and it will tell you how on track you are.


Fitday is great! I always used caloriecount.about.com because I could not only input my food intake but also the exercise that I did for that day, I could track my weight losses and it would update it all for me to tell me what number of calories I should shoot for that day. At least, it used to do that, it's been a couple years though.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Nomad said:


> Thanks for the calculator. It says I should be burning 2250 calories per day. I was not aware that there was a 500 calorie deficit thing. Science says if you burn more than you eat you should lose weight. I guess I'll never understand what really happens. I'll try to watch what I eat, stay within the 500 calorie limit and walk on the treadmill.
> 
> Nomad


Science _also_ says if you've dropped your caloric intake too low, you'll put yourself into "starvation mode." Fifteen hundred calories, for a man, is _extremely_ low!

You started last Monday (the 13th), right? Ie, exactly one week ago today. That's not nearly long enough to know if it's going to work or not... And you weren't even on plan the whole time. :shrug:

It almost looks like you want this to fail. The pseudo-psychologist in me says there's something to explore in that. 
Not to mention the fact that sugar/starch is legitimately addictive. Not only is it literal detox, coming off it, but it can be VERY hard to give up in the first place!

I hope I don't sound like I'm attacking you, Nomad. I'm really not trying to come across that way. 
But, I do think there's some head-stuff going on here that you seriously might want to consider.


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## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

ErinP said:


> Science _also_ says if you've dropped your caloric intake too low, you'll put yourself into "starvation mode." Fifteen hundred calories, for a man, is _extremely_ low!
> 
> You started last Monday (the 13th), right? Ie, exactly one week ago today. That's not nearly long enough to know if it's going to work or not... And you weren't even on plan the whole time. :shrug:
> 
> ...


My problem with your posts is you aren't listening to me. With the amount of calories I ate last week, no matter what the diet or not diet was, I should not have gained. Nobody has explained how that could have happened. 

After the news I got today that we won't be moving, I really don't care about much of anything. So I'm going to eat what I want and if I get fatter and explode I don't care anymore.

Nomad


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## Betho (Dec 27, 2006)

Nomad said:


> My problem with your posts is you aren't listening to me. With the amount of calories I ate last week, no matter what the diet or not diet was, I should not have gained. Nobody has explained how that could have happened.
> 
> After the news I got today that we won't be moving, I really don't care about much of anything. So I'm going to eat what I want and if I get fatter and explode I don't care anymore.
> 
> Nomad


I understand you are frustrated, but please understand if you want a different result than what you have been getting you may need to try something different. If you are going to try a different way of eating, you can't just give it a few days and then give up on it. Eating TOO FEW calories will cause your metabolism to slow, which in turn can cause you to gain weight. It's because your body is CONSERVING because you don't have much. It's PURPOSEFULLY not burning as many calories as it would if you fueled it as much as it actually needs, and it is PURPOSEFULLY trying to increase your fat stores because you are making it think that you are in a starvation scenario by eating so little. Our bodies were designed to try and live as long as possible, which means in a starvation scenario it tries to hold on to and store as much energy (body fat) as it possibly can to extend your life. You might know the difference, but your body doesn't know that you are intentionally eating such a low amount... all your body knows is that it's not getting nearly enough, so it's triggering the starvation/conservation mode.

Here ya go, this might help you understand why eating too FEW calories will cause weight gain:

http://www.mikesfitness.com/content/low-calorie-diet-still-gaining-weight


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## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

Betho said:


> I understand you are frustrated, but please understand if you want a different result than what you have been getting you may need to try something different. If you are going to try a different way of eating, you can't just give it a few days and then give up on it. Eating TOO FEW calories will cause your metabolism to slow, which in turn can cause you to gain weight. It's because your body is CONSERVING because you don't have much. It's PURPOSEFULLY not burning as many calories as it would if you fueled it as much as it actually needs, and it is PURPOSEFULLY trying to increase your fat stores because you are making it think that you are in a starvation scenario by eating so little. Our bodies were designed to try and live as long as possible, which means in a starvation scenario it tries to hold on to and store as much energy (body fat) as it possibly can to extend your life. You might know the difference, but your body doesn't know that you are intentionally eating such a low amount... all your body knows is that it's not getting nearly enough, so it's triggering the starvation/conservation mode.
> 
> Here ya go, this might help you understand why eating too FEW calories will cause weight gain:
> 
> http://www.mikesfitness.com/content/low-calorie-diet-still-gaining-weight


Thanks, that was informative. But right now I am not feeling too well mentally, so maybe I'll give it a day or two before I do anything. Right now I'm just trying to keep myself out of a depression.

Nomad


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## Elffriend (Mar 2, 2003)

Ok, let's look at the 2.5 lb gain. That could just be a normal fluctuation. Did you weigh at the same time of day as last week, wearing the same thing? Had you eaten yet that day or had anything to drink?


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## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

Elffriend said:


> Ok, let's look at the 2.5 lb gain. That could just be a normal fluctuation. Did you weigh at the same time of day as last week, wearing the same thing? Had you eaten yet that day or had anything to drink?


I weigh myself at the same time each week and I wear the same thing...skin. I had not eaten nor had anything to drink. That stupid book said people should lose 4 - 5 pounds the first week, most of it water loss. Perhaps I'm more like a sponge and soak up water instead of losing it.

Nomad


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## PamB (Jan 15, 2008)

don't know what kind of scale you are using, but the weather and other things can play havoc with them weighing correctly. don't get discouraged
Pam


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## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

PamB said:


> don't know what kind of scale you are using, but the weather and other things can play havoc with them weighing correctly. don't get discouraged
> Pam


I just bought it in February. It's a digital and not cheap. I would hope it gives an accurate weight each time, but who knows?

Nomad


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

You said you had a great deal of fatigue the first few days, so great that you couldn't take it any more.

You later mentioned putting coffee back _into_ your diet.

All I have to say is, _Well, there's your problem!_

Okay, I lied, I have more to say. It takes two weeks or more before your body gets used to running without caffeine, and you're probably going to feel like carp most of that time. It takes another month or two, at least, before you no longer notice the change in your routine from leaving out your daily cup(s) of coffee. Until you actually get used to the routine that doesn't include the time spent making the coffee, waiting for it to brew, and savoring that first cup of the day, you're going to fee a little off.

If you are going to do a diet that doesn't include coffee, then either get off the coffee first, _then_ start the diet, or get the diet up and running and _then_ stop the coffee.

The same thing goes with a diet and exercise combo -- get one routine down before you start the next, or your body will start to think you are trying to kill it!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nomad, a lot of things can show up as weight gain on a scale and it's easy to become discouraged but that doesn't mean a person has to quit nor does it signify failure. The variance at the scale could simply be because your off program day(s) were close to your weigh in day, the salt associated with the pretzels could have caused some water retention or it is very possible that you simply aren't consuming enough calories. 

If you feel the paleo diet is not for you, you might be right in the sense that it doesn't fit your lifestyle or it doesn't meet your dietary needs but there's plenty of other options out there that are effective.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Nomad said:


> My problem with your posts is you aren't listening to me.


On the contrary. 
Because I AM listening, I see someone who is _determined_ to sabotage himself.

Like I said, I think there's some head-stuff going on here that you might really want to look at...


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## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

ErinP said:


> On the contrary.
> Because I AM listening, I see someone who is _determined_ to sabotage himself.
> 
> Like I said, I think there's some head-stuff going on here that you might really want to look at...


LOL I have had more therapy than any ten people should have and I am extremely self aware. There is very little going on in my head which the wife will attest to. I am a person who is willing to try things, but I expect results that are promised. When I read a book about a diet that says I WILL lose 4-5 pounds the first week and I end up gaining, I'm done. The few little things I ate shouldn't have made a difference. At the most I might have stayed the same, but to gain was just ridiculous. Right now I am not too interested in my weight. I am focused on moving and that is consuming all of my time and energy. I shouldn't have tried a new diet with this much going on. The Paleo diet isn't for me. I felt like I had nothing to eat even though I spent a lot of money buying everything that was permissible on the list. I'll worry about my diet when I have no other pressing issues.

Nomad


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

You're right. If you can't commit to something, you can't expect results. 

But it's been a while since I read Cordain...
Where does he guarantee a loss of 4-5 pounds the first week? And how much cheating does he suggest in order to still get that guarantee?

You made it how long? _Two days_ before you were making "modifications"? You started Monday and by Wednesday you were eating _chips and pretzels_!

It doesn't matter if this were Paleo, Atkins or Jenny Craig. If you only went 2 days on plan and "modified" every day after that, it's not the diet's fault... 
The only one you're cheating is yourself, Nomad. 

Change is _supposed_ to be hard. But when you're ready, it won't matter how hard it is. You'll do it because it'll be too important not to.


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## Nomad (Dec 19, 2002)

On the first stage you can go off the diet for three meals a week. I didn't eat a bag of chips or pretzels, I had a few because I was feeling deprived. I took the books back to the library, but I did read about the initial weight loss. I joke about my poor old worn out brain, but I am only joking. I rarely forget something I read.

Nomad


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