# First time ewe: water bag presented, then retracted



## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

My first lambing experience is with a first-time ewe. On top of "the blind leading the blind", this one is coming a month earlier than I expected (had brief exposure to a ram yearling. my luck).

I happened upon seeing her presenting a water bag (softball sized). I was out feeding hay, all the ewe's were clamoring for food including her. She seemed unfazed by anything besides her appetite. 

I called my wife to grab a coat and our goat birthing kit. By the time she was out in the barn, about 5 minutes later, the water bag had fully retracted back into the birth canal. Any worries? I've got a mental clock ticking....


As a post-birth worry, I had planned on administering CD/T vaccines this weekend, thinking I had 4-6 weeks for the flock to start lambing. What is the CD/T protocol for new lambs that have not gotten immunity from the ewe?


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Are you sure it was the water bag? She could be prolapsing rather than ready to give birth. 

I'd give the CD/T now in case they don't lamb for a couple of weeks to a month.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

prolapse crossed my mind. How do I tell? I've never seen a prolapsed uterus. She has bagged up. It looked water-baggish.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

Did you see the waterbag retract or could it have broken while you were doing something else?


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

Maybe this may help decide what you saw. Maybe not. First it prolapse uterus starting and second is waterbag.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

I think waterbag. I've been party to numerous goat kiddings. Haven't ever seen a water bag come and go. It lends credence to the prolapse. 

I was in a rush to get the lambing stall emptied of other animals and didn't watch her the entire time. No, I don't think it broke. Among other things, everything is still pretty tidy back there.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

I am new to sheep. When my two ewes lambed a few weeks ago, the breaking of the water bag did not cause any mess to speak of.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

I hope all turns out well. If it was the waterbag I hope she has gone ahead and lambed. Let us know.


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## billinwv (Sep 27, 2013)

If she is extremely closely docked(or maybe not) it could have been a temporary vaginal prolapse from being heavy with lambs and straining to get to food. She'll be one to watch closely post lambing.


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## ErikaMay (Feb 28, 2013)

I've seen the things go in and out a few times before finally coming out for good. I had an "eeek" moment when the ewe laid down, got hay on it then the darn thing tried to go back inside. I can't remember how that lambing went...i think that was the one where i had to assist.

hope it went well for you.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

DW was able to get a good look this morning when the ewe was laying down. She was able to confirm that it is a prolapse and not labor/delivery. Plus, I have since been able to find some more internet pics that more resemble what I saw. (A very smooth, ball-shaped water-bag-looking prolapse). I have a call in to a vet for a consult. He is in surgery and wont be able to call for a while. 

My options, as I currently understand are:

1) Try to ride it out until delivery (By my calendar, should be 4/1)
2) Drive her to the vet for a suture.
3) Eat her.

What doth the peanut gallery say?


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## Rosepath (Feb 18, 2011)

Well, heck, I'd hate to put her in the freezer if she could be having a nice lamb for you. If the vet isn't that far away, I'd load her up and try to get it stitched back up and cleaned, not necessarily in that order, LOL.
One of ours did fine after a prolapse and went on to have decent lambing experience, can't remember if we had to do anything about the stitches or not, it was years ago.
Which is why I raise Shetlands, no tail docking, I hate seeing the Suffolks at the fair with their tails docked all the way up their back, that's just not natural (I know, keeps flies off to dock, but gee whiz, the current show fashion is too extreme) Good luck with your girl.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

I just got of the phone with Doc. His advice was to not suture and wait it out and try to get a lamb out of the deal, then cull. And to keep close tabs on her to see if it becomes a "cull sooner" situation. He said if it prolapses again, and becomes dried and nasty, to take care of matters then. But he is hopeful, based only on non-visual observation, she may make it through. He said the chances of a good delivery with suturing are not good, anyway. The sutures aggravate the ewe and they end up pushing on impulse prematurely. Plus delivery has to be very closely monitored, and they end up needing re-sutured post delivery.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

(bergere, can you add "prolapse" or something useful to the title of this thread to assist future web searchers?)


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## purplequeenvt (Mar 3, 2013)

You could also use a prolapse retainer and/or harness.

The retainer or spoon is the yellow piece.


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This particular harness (from Premier 1) is supposed to work without a spoon, but I don't trust it to stay on properly so I use a spoon too. You can use just the spoon, but you will have to rig up a harness with baling twine to get it to stay in place.

I'd watch her closely for a few days before decided on anything. As long as everything goes back in when she gets up and starts moving and she isn't straining as if in labor, then I'd leave her as she is for now. If she starts prolapsing more frequently or the prolapse doesn't go back in on it's own, then it's time to intervene with either the retainer, harness, or sutures.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

Awnry Abe said:


> DW was able to get a good look this morning when the ewe was laying down. She was able to confirm that it is a prolapse and not labor/delivery. Plus, I have since been able to find some more internet pics that more resemble what I saw. (A very smooth, ball-shaped water-bag-looking prolapse). I have a call in to a vet for a consult. He is in surgery and wont be able to call for a while.
> 
> My options, as I currently understand are:
> 
> ...


I am glad this is what it was. If it is going in and out she will probably deliver ok. If it had been a waterbag and her not lambed it would have probably been dire. 30 minutes after waterbag presents you need to go in and see if everything is ok. If not you run a big risk of losing both ewe and lamb/lambs. This was tricky not knowing for sure.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

I am glad this is what it was. If it is going in and out she will probably deliver ok. If it had been a waterbag and her not lambed it would have probably been dire. 30 minutes after waterbag presents you need to go in and see if everything is ok. If not you run a big risk of losing both ewe and lamb/lambs. This was tricky not knowing for sure. I was scared to offer advice not knowing for sure what you were seeing. 

Raising sheep for pretty much my entire life in one form or another I still talked myself into thinking it was ok with a ewe last year and that she would go ahead even though I knew the 30 minute rule. I lost both her and a set of twins. I told DH that would never happen again. If my instincts say something needs done I am doing it. This season a waterbag presented and I waited about 45 minutes and decided I was going to check. The head was backwards and we had to push the lamb back in and straighten it out. We still had a time pulling it. A few minutes later another was born fine and without help. If we hadn't done this we would have lost 2 babies again and a wonderful ewe.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

I have used that prolapse retainer from Premier and did not use a spoon. IME, they can feel the spoon and want to push against it. The retainer did a wonderful job on its own. 

I would wait it out with this ewe. If it's small (soft ball sized or so), she may do just fine and it may not get any worse. I would consider culling her though, as it probably will happen again. 

If it gets worse, you can always use the retainer/harness to keep it from getting worse. I like them better than the spoons, which always seem to be hard to keep in place. She can lamb past a spoon (bonus), but cannot lamb past stitches (without causing damage to herself) or the harness. 

You may want to go ahead and order the harness. They're probably not more than $15-$20, and worth it to have on hand. 

Good luck with her!


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## Double C Acres (Nov 25, 2011)

I've used the harness with spoon and it worked great! First I tried only the harness but she prolapsed past it. Then we added the spoon and she wore that about a month till she lambed no problem. Good luck!


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I'd just keep her around. They can easily prolapse while pushing to get closer to the feeder with that larger tummy. I'd make more room at the feeder so she doesn't have to push too much. I had one that was near lambing when the shearer came. She bulged way out and I was sure she was going to proplapse but nothing happened and she delivered triplets for me 3 years in a row.

last year, I had to have the vet out to stitch one up about a month before she lambed. She had her twins with the little purse string still in place with no problems. 

Nothing is a done deal on her yet. Just keep an eye out.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Callieslamb said:


> last year, I had to have the vet out to stitch one up about a month before she lambed. She had her twins with the little purse string still in place with no problems.


How was the stitch still in place after she lambed? Did it tear through her vulva? 

I had a ewe prolapse pretty badly a few years back. Totally a freak thing, not overweight, no history of that in her line, no cramped feeder, etc. The vet stitched her up, and I checked her every few hours for TWO weeks. The one day I could not get home, she lambed. The stitch was still in place, alright, but she pushed those lambs out the side of her vulva and tore very badly. The vet came back out and stitched her back up, and she healed beautifully, but she was retired after that. It was awful.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

The "cramped feeder" actually holds merit in my case. I spread their hay around, but it is a feeding free-for-all right now. With snow out, they aren't getting their normal diet. The ewes tend to bunch together.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

Here is how this ordeal ended...


















The pure white one is male, the one with brown spots is a girl.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Congrats!


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Congratulations!! Glad all is well.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Congrats on your new lambs! Very glad everything went ok!


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## PNP Katahdins (Oct 28, 2008)

Abe, how are the three of them doing?

Peg


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

Good and bad. All are healthy and happy. That is the good. The bad is that we didn't get her jugged properly and ended up with a pair of bummers. It's a tad long story. 

We had all of our goat and dairy cattle births planned for basically this week and then planned a week vacation in sunny warm weather for late last month. Because of a really basic management mistake, she ended up bred early. We didn't know how early until the lambs were on the ground. That was the very day before we headed out of town. I had them jugged, and actually in a decent structure. My mom was watching the place for us in our absence. I promised her a super light, enjoyable work load with no drama. She was fine with the extra task of getting hay and water to ewe. 

The lambing was Saturday morning. The flight out was Sunday morning. On Monday morning, I got a 9-1-1 call from her saying that the ewe broke out if the pen the day before, the lambs are getting neglected, and that one of the lambs is knocking on death's door. I knew my mom was in no shape to wrestle things back to order, so I told her I have 2 options: "either let nature take its course or you bottle feed until I get back--I can deal with either." She jumped at the chance to bottle feed and the task literally made her week fulfilling.

So they lived in my master bathroom in my absence and she had a great time nurturing them back to health. Named them Lacey and Luden. I warned her that Luden will be joining her for Sunday dinner one day. She is good with that. 

The lambs are now very healthy yet annoying. My whole flock is bottle raised, so I am accustomed to it. I have much to learn from the ewe and her litter mates about this prolapse issue, though.


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