# Un-risen bread



## offGridNorthern (Jan 1, 2006)

My bread (have tried 3 recipes now) will not rise to fill the pans. It rises just fine the first time, doubling in size, but then sits like lumps in the bread pans and doesn't come up nice and fluffy. It doesn't come up at all!

Have tried new yeast and new flour. Used a candy thermometer to make sure the warm liquid was right for the yeast .... Used a nice warm place for rising, no draughts .... still have little lumps of bread.

What am I doing wrong.


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## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

You mind sharing your recipe? Might help us troubleshoot.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Also did you modify the recipe like use honey for sugar?


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## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

And where are you placing the dough to rise?


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## offGridNorthern (Jan 1, 2006)

my latest recipe (thinking the previous times it was the recipe) was:
5 1/2 to 6 1/4 c flour
1 pack. dry yest
2 1/2 c milk
2 tbsp butter
1 1/2 tsp salt

No, I didn't alter the recipe at all, in fact .... I was very careful to measure EXACTLY and following the directions EXACTLY.....

This time I used the trick in my recipe book (turn oven on the 400 deg. and the turnoff, putting bowl in oven to keep warm.

Could it be that it was too warm, do you think??


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

do you dissolve the yeast in water or in the milk??


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## agr8day (Sep 14, 2009)

Did you put a teaspoon of sugar, the yeast, and a cup of warm water together in a smal bowl and let it make a sponge (the yeast growing nice and puffy). Then add that to your other ingredients, knead it, put it in a greased bowl, turn it to let all sides get coated with the shortening, let it rise, twice its size, punch it down, form your loaves, put them in the pans, cover and let rise again, then bake. I had trouble for awhile with the dough not rising, but that was because I had a bad batch of yeast.
Did you leave your oven door open to let it cool a little before you put the loaves in? Just a few minutes should be enough, in case you think it is too warm.


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## thebaker (Dec 2, 2009)

offGridNorthern said:


> my latest recipe (thinking the previous times it was the recipe) was:
> 5 1/2 to 6 1/4 c flour
> 1 pack. dry yest
> 2 1/2 c milk
> ...


I would never never put a bowl in the oven after it been at 400 degrees due to it may had killed your yeast. If you was proofing your yeast an put it in a 400 degree oven it would kill the yeast fast as yeast can't go over this temp... Here is the temp to keep the water for yeast. Warm water (between 110 and 115 degrees F) and stir to dissolve. (The water should feel like a pleasantly warm shower, or about the temperature you'd use for a baby's bottle. If it feels uncomfortably hot, it will probably kill the yeast.) 

This is how I proof my yeast.
In a measuring cup, add a 1 tablespoon white sugar into the measured warm water between 110-115 degrees F. Stir in the yeast and allow the mixture to stand, undisturbed, for about 15 minutes. Mixture will develop froth on top of the water within 15 minutes; liquid will be cloudy.

After 15 minutes or so, stir the mixture to make sure that all of the yeast granules have dissolved. If there are still a few granules that haven't dissolved, allow the mixture to stand for a few more minutes. Stir the mixture and use as indicated in the recipe. Froth will deflate when stirred.

Long time ago I had trouble with my yeast dough not raising like it was suppose to so I heated up my oven to 400 degrees then turned off my oven had my yeast dough in my bowl and got a warm wet towel an placed over my bowl then sit my bowl on top of the stove to help keep the bowl warm an my dough raised perfect. 

NOTE: Keep watch on the towel to make sure it doesn't get dry if does your dough will not raise like suppose to. 

Good Luck..


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## kyweaver (Nov 30, 2009)

Is your water heavily chlorinated? If it smells like bleach it might be killing the yeast.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

Maybe I'm missing something but I thought you said it rose once but didn't again once in the pans. If you're putting the pans into a hot oven, stop. I turn on the oven to _warm_ and give it 2 minutes then shut it off. If I don't see any action in 1/2 hour, I'll do that again. (I don't see any problems with your recipe. Neither sugar nor honey are necessary to activate/feed yeast; if they were, there would be no French bread in this world.)


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## thebaker (Dec 2, 2009)

There is a difference in yeast some has to proof while the other type don't.

Of what I get from the OP post is they are using a dry yeast instead of rapid rise yeast. Rapid rise yeast you don't need to proof it but the dry yeast you need to proof it to make sure the yeast is good and not dead.. 

Active dry - the traditional dry yeast; needs to be dissolved usually with a bit of sugar.

Rapid Rise - larger amount of yeast enhancers and other packaging changes to the granules. Does not have to be dissolved. Works very fast and is intended for straight doughs that you want to complete within an hour or so. Generally not used by artisan bakers who seek slower, not faster, rise.


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## offGridNorthern (Jan 1, 2006)

agr8day said:


> Did you put a teaspoon of sugar, the yeast, and a cup of warm water together in a smal bowl and let it make a sponge (the yeast growing nice and puffy).......... to let it cool a little before you put the loaves in? Just a few minutes should be enough, in case you think it is too warm.


Yes, the yeast (in this recipe) goes into the warm milk with sugar & salt. And yes, I did let it cool down a bit but am wondering if it wasn't cool enough?? It did double in size but didn't rise after punch down


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## offGridNorthern (Jan 1, 2006)

thebaker said:


> There is a difference in yeast some has to proof while the other type don't..


But if the yeast (and this is my 3rd yeast purchase) wasn't good -- would it rise the 1st time (which it did). it's after punch down that it doesn't come up again


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## offGridNorthern (Jan 1, 2006)

katydidagain said:


> Maybe I'm missing something but I thought you said it rose once but didn't again once in the pans. If you're putting the pans into a hot oven, stop. I turn on the oven to _warm_ QUOTE]
> 
> That's right katydidagain. It is fine in the greased bowl, coming up double. Then I punch it down, form into loaves and it just sits.
> 
> What is a warm oven? What temp??


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## thebaker (Dec 2, 2009)

offGridNorthern said:


> But if the yeast (and this is my 3rd yeast purchase) wasn't good -- would it rise the 1st time (which it did). it's after punch down that it doesn't come up again


Dough doubling
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/4973/newbie-yeast-question-why-didn039t-my-dough-double-size

That may give you some answers.. I've never ran into the problem of my dough not doubling sorry. But this place may give you some help with your questions.


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## offGridNorthern (Jan 1, 2006)

Thanks, Baker. I'm thinking maybe it was too hot ... I'll try tomorrow (again) with a less-warm environment.


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## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

When I bake bread I FIRST turn my oven light on...Wait half an hour to an hour. Make my dough up, place in greased bowl and place in oven. Allow to rise, dump it out onto floured pastry cloth, smoosh it a bit to a rough rectangle shape, roll it up and place in greased pan and back into oven with oven light still on.
I no longer punch down my dough, just gently smoosh it. I don't recall which TV chef said 'smoosh don't punch'. It works for this bread making challenged baker.


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## thebaker (Dec 2, 2009)

offGridNorthern can you pm me the recipe of your bread so I can try the recipe. Love trying different bread recipes.

Thanks 

God Bless..


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## offGridNorthern (Jan 1, 2006)

thebaker said:


> offGridNorthern can you pm me the recipe of your bread so I can try the recipe. .


Done. But do not laugh -- this is the 1st one in my recipe book and is marked "easy white bread" ..... I am SURE you are well beyond it.:bow: Perhaps I should start making flat breads --- they don't require any lift!!!


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## highlandview (Feb 15, 2007)

offGridNorthern said:


> my latest recipe (thinking the previous times it was the recipe) was:
> 5 1/2 to 6 1/4 c flour
> 1 pack. dry yest
> 2 1/2 c milk
> ...



I would mix your lukewarm milk, yeast and salt. Let it sit 5 minutes before adding the rest of the ingredients. The yeast (if it is good) should get foamy. Then add the rest of your ingredient. For the first rise cove the bowl with a warm wet towel out of draft. For the second rise try not covering but placing it in an oven with just the oven light on and see if that works. There is a bread recipe on my blog today that is easy because it is rustic and requires no kneading. www.thehighlandviewpantry.blogspot.com Good Luck!


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## thebaker (Dec 2, 2009)

offGridNorthern
I will be trying out the recipe later tonight after everyone settles down for the night. 

Will let you know how it goes later.

Thanks.


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## offGridNorthern (Jan 1, 2006)

highlandview said:


> that is easy because it is rustic and requires no kneading. www.thehighlandviewpantry.blogspot.com Good Luck!


so how does the yeast in your directions work if I am using packaged yeast.

One would think in 30 years of homemaking, that I wouldn't be having all this trouble!! And the sad thing is that I used to make bread all the time in my younger years. I should be getting smarter:ashamed:


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

This is one reason I love my new oven - I can set the temp at 95 degrees and not worry about it. 

I know that sour dough often does not have enough "umpf" to rise a second time. When I make that with no added yeast I only let it rise once and then bake it. 

I've been using the same yeast I used in my bread maker, but use my Kitchenaide to mix it all up. I don't proof anything, and so far it's been working out. Making bread this way is new to me - but my bread maker died and DH was getting frantic. Now that I have an oven I can use for rising, I don't want to purchase a new bread machine.

Cathy


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## offGridNorthern (Jan 1, 2006)

Macybaby said:


> This is one reason I love my new oven - I can set the temp at 95 degrees and not worry about it.
> 
> I've been using the same yeast I used in my bread maker,
> Cathy


How long do you "knead" it using your KitchenAid mixer? Nice oven!


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

Well, I'm just learning how to use the KA mixer, I know there are lots of people on the board that have been doing that for years.

The instruction book says to knead for 2 -3 minutes, other people have reported kneading for 10 minutes. The big thing I learned is NOT to go above speed 2 on the mixer (can fry the mixer). That is something I would never have figured out on my own.

I want "easy" so I've been trying to use the same method I did with the bread machine. I mix all the dry ingredients together (I go short on the flour so I can add exactly what is needed later), then add yeast and mix that in well. Then I take rather hot tap water and add any other liquid (oil, honey, syrup, egg) and mix that. I turn the mixer on low and slowly add the liquid. Once that is all mixed, I add additional flour until it looks like it should - not sure how to describe it, I learned from being shown. Wheat dough should be stickier than white dough.

Then I knead it on speed 2 for 5-7 minutes. I set the oven at 90 deg and put the dough in a plastic container with marks on the side and then I can easily tell when it has doubled in size. I have a tendency to letting it over rise and I've found 45 minutes is usually enough in the oven. 

Right now my big problem is figuring out the right batch size to get two nice loaves. But I am having fun and DH is very happy I'm making bread again (the bread machine stopped working correctly several months ago).

Cathy


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## offGridNorthern (Jan 1, 2006)

Macybaby said:


> The instruction book says to knead for 2 -3 minutes, other people have reported kneading for 10 minutes.
> Cathy


Yes, my instruction book says 2-3 minutes but that sounded too little to me. I think I'll try 10 minutes!!


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## Jeff54321 (Jan 26, 2005)

Knowing where your problem is difficult without seeing exactly what you are doing. My best guess is that you are letting the dough rise too long on the first rise and then possibly failing to shape the dough properly for the second rise in the pan.


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

If you're using ordinary (cake, biscuit (cookie)) flour rather than bread flour it can't stand as much kneading because it doesn't have as much gluten to hold it together. Is there any chance you've changed flour types?

Definitely hot will kill the yeast though. If it would be too hot for a baby then it will be too hot for the yeast. You don't want anything more than warm until you actually cook it.


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## offGridNorthern (Jan 1, 2006)

wogglebug said:


> If you're using ordinary ...... Is there any chance you've changed flour types?
> .


I did change flour thinking maybe the 1st time ws a flour problem. But the no-rise saga continues with different flour, as well.


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## offGridNorthern (Jan 1, 2006)

Jeff54321 said:


> .....then possibly failing to shape the dough properly for the second rise in the pan.


oh, dear. What is the 'proper way'? I've just divided it and tucked ends under and put in loaf pan.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

I only knead my dough with KA for about 2-3 mins. Never had any problems.

I don't knead the second time, I push down, divide and put in new pans to rise again.

I don't use the oven for a rise, I just cover mine with a kitchen towel and set in a draft free place.

My recipe calls for 2 yeast spoons (packets) with 6 1/2 cups of whole wheat flour. (All purpose, not bread), but I do add gluten powder to mine.


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## Jeff54321 (Jan 26, 2005)

offGridNorthern said:


> oh, dear. What is the 'proper way'? I've just divided it and tucked ends under and put in loaf pan.


You want to gently stretch the dough out in a flat rectangle and then gently fold it into thirds like an envelope. From here do your shaping as you have been, handling the dough gently at all times. I have intentionally used the word "gently" three, now four, times. You want a firm but gentle touch. Shape the dough with authority but do not man handle the dough.

I still suspect that you are letting the first rise go for too long.


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## thebaker (Dec 2, 2009)

offGridNorthern Wanted to let you know that the recipe that you've posted on here I'm working on and so far the dough has risen every time. Take a look at the PM I sent you about the recipe. 

Will post photos of bread if turns out right. Keeping my fingers crossed..


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## thebaker (Dec 2, 2009)

Oh the bread smells so good and it turned out great... I didn't do my dough into 2 pieces as my loaf pan was pretty good size so I had to put the whole thing of dough in the pan but it done great.. The recipe is a good one just took sometime fingureing out what was wrong an it's seems there was a typeO or something in it. So I work with the recipe 2 times and the 2nd time it worked. 

IMO offGridNorthern wasn't doing nothing wrong it was something a little quackey about the recipe that caused problems. offGridNorthern was doing everything right.. When I used the bread recipe the first time my dough only rose once an that was it. So this time I done a few things different an it rose prefect... 

Post photos soon after get them off camera.


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## thebaker (Dec 2, 2009)

1st rise









Then punched down.









2nd rise









Punched down again









This photos is of it just been punch down again an shaped









3rd Now last rise while in loaf pan









Now when it's done baking..









The bread tasted great..


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## woodsman (Dec 8, 2008)

I'd try proofing yeast without any salt. Then add the salt after the proofed yeast is mixed into the rest of the liquid.


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