# Wilted crab apple leaves



## mamahen (May 11, 2002)

Are they poisionous? Two large trees fell in the pasture. They uprooted themsleves after the rains, and fell over. They aren't wilted yet - but everyone gorged themselves on the little green apples. They are fine - but I moved them to another section of pasture.

I know I've read somewhere that they have the same effect as cherry (cyanide) wilted.

Anyone know? I can't get them out until hubby is home - we have to move the fence and it takes 2!


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Ohh, I'd move the goats right away and get them on a good pellet. 

Natural foods most assuredly will kill a goat. 

Is this all they have for pasture? Do you keep them in a glorified feed lot? There are a lot of questions that have to be answered first prior to knowing if it will cause a problem.

For instance say you had 10 goats on a good 5 acre pasture/brush lot and two trees fell. Who would think to move them. They wont eat enough of it to harm. But if you have 4 goats in a pen 100 X 100 and they are mostly fed hay and feed. I'd get them out of there because they will george and hurt themselves.

So which is it?


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## mamahen (May 11, 2002)

I'm not worried about them eating too much - but if they are poisionous when wilted, I'll keep them away.

You wouldn't let them eat a cherry or choke cherry tree that fell over, would you? 

I'm just saying that I've read that crab apple has the same effect as cherry......Anyone know if this is true?


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

mamahen said:


> I'm not worried about them eating too much - but if they are poisionous when wilted, I'll keep them away.
> 
> You wouldn't let them eat a cherry or choke cherry tree that fell over, would you?
> 
> I'm just saying that I've read that crab apple has the same effect as cherry......Anyone know if this is true?


Yep, and they do. No ill effects. But mine are on a large pasture with many feed sources so they just nibble this or that. In fact they like the choke cherry when they are small and tender. They eat them like candy. Berries,leaves, and branches.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Wilted cherry is poisonous, fresh cherry is not. This applies to all stone fruit trees. 
Crab apple is not a stone fruit so should be just fine. But if there is a lot and thats all they are eating, you should allow them only so much at a time.


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## crazygoatgal (Jan 15, 2008)

ozark_jewels said:


> Wilted cherry is poisonous, fresh cherry is not. This applies to all stone fruit trees.
> Crab apple is not a stone fruit so should be just fine. But if there is a lot and thats all they are eating, you should allow them only so much at a time.


 I am sure that is the kind of answer she was looking for-- nice and to the point.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

ozark_jewels said:


> Wilted cherry is poisonous, fresh cherry is not. This applies to all stone fruit trees.
> Crab apple is not a stone fruit so should be just fine. But if there is a lot and thats all they are eating, you should allow them only so much at a time.



Not so..... They eat them in the fall on the ground. That is the very definition of wilted... No?

What is bad for a goat is living in a feed lot...


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

crazygoatgal said:


> I am sure that is the kind of answer she was looking for-- nice and to the point.


Too bad not so.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

stanb999 said:


> Not so..... They eat them in the fall on the ground. That is the very definition of wilted... No?
> 
> What is bad for a goat is living in a feed lot...


Yes, living in a feed lot is bad for a goat, as are *poisonous* wilted leaves from stone fruit trees. You are right, they eat leaves off the ground in the fall all the time. Those are not poisonous because they wilted and fell NATURALLY. The sudden wilt of the green leaves caused by a limb or tree falling in the middle of the growing season is completely different and causes prussic acid poisoning when ingested. Its a fact, proven over and over again. Its not my imagination or anyone elses. 

So please be aware of what you speak of before refuting a post that could be very important. Fresh cherry leaves are fine, naturally wilted in the fall are fine....wilted leaves from a downed limb/tree?? NO.

The last thing one could accuse my goats of is living in a feed lot.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

For anyone interested this explains the whys and wherefores of wilted cherry poisoning.

http://vet.purdue.edu/depts/addl/toxic/plant46.htm

Do I walk my fields after every storm looking for every blown branch? No. But if a tree comes down, I cut it up and get it out of there before it wilts. No sense tempting my goats to inflict prussic acid poisoning on themselves. My grandfather did lose cattle to a downed cherry tree.


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## sungirl (Jan 23, 2008)

ozark_jewels said:


> Yes, living in a feed lot is bad for a goat, as are *poisonous* wilted leaves from stone fruit trees. You are right, they eat leaves off the ground in the fall all the time. Those are not poisonous because they wilted and fell NATURALLY. The sudden wilt of the green leaves caused by a limb or tree falling in the middle of the growing season is completely different and causes prussic acid poisoning when ingested. Its a fact, proven over and over again. Its not my imagination or anyone elses.
> 
> So please be aware of what you speak of before refuting a post that could be very important. Fresh cherry leaves are fine, naturally wilted in the fall are fine....wilted leaves from a downed limb/tree?? NO.
> 
> The last thing one could accuse my goats of is living in a feed lot.



Well Said! :bow:

Patty.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

From the article......

The problem
Most animals can consume small amounts of healthy leaves, bark and fruit safely; however when hungry animals consume large amounts of fresh leaves or small amounts of damaged leaves (as little as 2 ounces), clinical cases of poisoning will occur, and many animals may die. This is especially true if there is no other forage for the animals to consume, or in the case of pets when confined and/or bored, the chances for toxic levels of ingestion can occur., The conditions of cyanide poisoning have also been discussed under Johnsongrass. 

The solution

PREVENTION: Do not allow animals to have access to damaged cherry leaves, especially if they are hungry and there is no other forage available. Do not place fallen branches or tree trimmings where animals can graze them. Exercise caution with animals on pasture after storms, during droughts or after a frost since these conditions will increase the chances of toxic levels of ingestion. For pets, do not house or confine animals in the vicinity of cherry, since boredom will increase the likelihood that the plant will be eaten. For most species of cherry, the fruit is safe for consumption. It is the leaves and bark which pose the greatest risk. 

It is only accute when they have nothing else to eat. So the first post was on point as I asked what was the conditions in which the animals lived. One branch on a ten arce lush pasture wont mean much. But a fallen tree during drought on the same could cause problems.

I try to define the issue before giving blanket advise.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Not going to argue with you. The original post said that two large trees were down in the pasture. That is a *large* amount. *If* they had been cherry trees it would have been very bad. As it was, they are harmless unless its all the goats are eating.
I too disaprove of "blanket statements". Saying that wilted cherry is poisonous is not a blanket statement, its true and its vital that people know it.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

ozark_jewels said:


> Not going to argue with you. The original post said that two large trees were down in the pasture. That is a *large* amount. *If* they had been cherry trees it would have been very bad. As it was, they are harmless unless its all the goats are eating.
> I too disaprove of "blanket statements". Saying that wilted cherry is poisonous is not a blanket statement, its true and its vital that people know it.


OK, your right. Just ignore the actual statements in my post. How it was to the point and how it was backed up by the link you posted.


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## js2743 (Dec 4, 2006)

stan where did you get the idea they was in a feed lot??? 

wilted cherry will kill any thing that eats it, have seen several cows lost to summer storms with down cherry trees. when the leaves go off in the fall its a good idea to cut every one thats in the pasture or near the fence that could fall into the pasture.


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## mamahen (May 11, 2002)

sheesh, didn't mean to start a riot:shrug:

There are 4 small breed goats on approx. 4 acres. They share with a mule & heifer. Everyone is fat & happy on pasture and hay. No feed for the goats, cause no one is doing anything! They are pets, I know a waste to some, but we love 'em!

We are adding 3 more acres of pasture/brush/woods this weekend. Why trim when someone will do it for you!

But a BIG thank you to everyone that answered my question!!:bow: My "herd" has trimmed all branches/leaves/crab apples in sight - the big girls (mule & cow) won't touch it!


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Stan, especially is not a synonym for exclusively.


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