# Generator from an old windmill?



## Studhauler

Does anybody know of a somebody or of a thread or GOOD website on making a wind generator from an old windmill? The so call experts say not to do it. I know it has been done successfully. It is just not as effective as the purpose built wind generator. 

The old windmill is high torque, low speed, low windspeed. Converting it to run a high speed generator or alternator, is one of the main losses of efficiency. Still converting an old windmill, is ALOT cheaper than the new stuff or even an old rebuilt Jacobs. Granted, a Jacobs would provide all the electricity my home would need, something homemade would take the edge of the electric bill and provide some juice in an outage.


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## wind power

Studhauler,
Try Chris Olson at the otherpower web site, he's an engineer by trade and constantly thinks outside the box in regards to wind mills.
He has some excellent designed chain drive units, which by using a large and a smaller sprocket he gets some good ratios in revolutions and amp output for batttery charging.....I dont see why it would not work with what Im assuming is the older aeromoter style windmill you are trying to connect too.

sidenote fyi: Building a conventional three blade wind generator is really not that much more in cost to fabricate...if you can scrounge metal and can weld...or have a buddy who can weld...


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## Roadking

A site I have used and built from...
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Wind/wind.htm#DIYWind
Links to other sites, plans, articles...well organized and a long time bookmark for me.
Matt


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## Fat Charlie

Oddly enough, Otherpower is how I found HST.


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## farminghandyman

one of the biggest problems is the speed 

one as said the old water pumper is like a tractor, and the electrical turbine is like a race car, (they may be both the same Horse power in out put), but the way they use the horse power is considerable different,

the water pumper is a drag type blades, the wind pushes them out of the way, 

the electrical uses a lift type system in the construction of the blades they FLY into the wind, (much like an air plane wing), 

a large part of the choice is the type of generator/alternator you would choose,

the typical car alternator most likely needs to run about 4 to 5000 rpm for efficiency, 

and if my calculations are correct, the water pumper max rpm is 100 rpm or less (the larger sizes are less, (if my calculations are correct the 12 foot is about 62 rpm maximum),

so to use a car or truck alternator as the generator, one may need a 50 to 1 speed increaser, 

roller chains usually are not the best for this as they wear fast and do not usually do high speeds very well, (I would think #35chain would be the largest size one could use with the speed factors on the small gear, 

now if one is using a different generator that is lower rpm you may be able to get some gearing that works (lasts is another story),

if my memory serves correctly the tip speed on a normal wind turbine, 
the 6 foot would most likely be in near the 1000 rpm range and the 12 foot would about halve of that, so first you have a lot less step up or if your generator is properly designed one can use those RPMs to generator at, with a 30 mph wind, (which is what the water pumper mills were rated at),

but the power from a windmill with a small diameter blade is not much power,

6 foot in a 10 mph wind is only about 
.048 hp, and in a 30 mph wind, 1.32 HP
a 12 foot, 10 mph, wind, 0.195 and 30 mph wind about 9.4 HP
(and in most parts of the country a 12 foot water pumper is rare), so my guess is you would mostly be looking at using a 6 or an 8 foot water pumper, as a starting point, and one would have to pull out the gears (some have small gears on the main shaft that are used for gear reduction on the pump rod, most water pumpers are geared at about 3 to 1, reduction,

so the case is not easly revamped, to use it as a base for the conversion,
and the case is a very importation part of the blade wind speed Governor, 

I personally think that if one would get nearly as much into it as just going and carving some blades, (or the possibility of using a PVC pipe section for the blades, and making there own from scratch,

I know there are some DIY plans that are fairly easy to follow, 



you speed increaser is a big problem, your wind speed regulation is another, 

I would guess one could strip out the motor case, turn the brake system off the water pumper and put a pulley or sprocket right in front of the case and set the generator off to the side, (one would need to put all the gears back in (would not need the pitman arms or guide wheel) as the gears pump the oil in the case to keep the bearings lubricated, (it is a very primitive system of oiling but a very important part of the mill), 
my water pumping windmill experience is with Aermotor mills, (i have rebuilt them and put them up and use them to pump water with daily)


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## Studhauler

Here is a guy that did it.

http://www.littlegreenguide.com/home-built-wind-generators.htm


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## Jim-mi

With out a oil bath chain or gear drives are not good. . . . . .lots of maintaince. 

Even the big boys (the mega watt turbines) are developing direct drive units.
The energy lost in gears is a bunch.

So making a turbine such as www.otherpower.com is REALLY worth considering.


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## Studhauler

If I go with a traditional wind generator it will be a Jacobs on a 100+ foot tower with gin pole, located in the very back corner of my property. 

I however am looking for something ascetically pleasing, to put up nearer the house in the old barn yard, which would be an old windmill with windmill blades. I only NEED enough power to keep a refrigerator and deep freeze running in long term power outage. I have a genset for the brief times I will need more power.

I will use the batteries from my camper to store the power. When I go camping I will just stow the windmill.


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## wind power

Hi Studhauler,
Do you know how many watts your fridge and freezer pulls each day?
If so, match up your battery bank....but will your wind gen design keep it supplied is another thing...
If all you want to do is keep a fridge and freezer running during an outage, have you considered LP or Kerosene refridgerators?

Just have it on stand-by and fire it up when the time comes.

when you say an old windmill with windmill blades, it appears to be confusing... do you mean like the old water pumping aeromotor mills?

When you say stowing the windmill away, do you mean removing the generator from off the mill?
If so. you could problay build something in the 1000-2000 watt range based on Hugh Piggot's or the other power designs, which could be light enough to take off and put back on but I be Da*#@ed if I would want to do it on a regular basis....

But to get the required battery charging voltage from such a low speed as an aeromotor would cause it to stall badly as the wind speed increased....you would need some kind of chain sprocket to step up the generator speed...the low-end torque would quite probably do the rest.....you see, you need to match the windings in the stator to the blade design speed so it wont stall in higher wind speeds....its all about resistance in those windings

But if you are satisfied with it pumping out...say 5 amps in low wind conditions or high wind conditions than the older aeromotor style could possibly work


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## Studhauler

wind power said:


> But if you are satisfied with it pumping out...say 5 amps in low wind conditions
> work


Yep that is what I am interested in. 

I will have 4 Trojan 105 batteries. They will supply an average deep freeze and refrigerator for 2 days.

Yes, I mean something like an Areomotor windmill. The tower, the blades, the whole kit and kabootle. I would most likely have to take out the Areomotor guts and put some sort of gears or differential in place of it. Like the guy fro the site I posted did.

By stowing I mean swing the tail, or jam a 2x4 between something to keep the blades from spinning. 

I would need to step-up the gear ratio somehow. Like a truck differential.

With a battery bank for the refrigerator, I can also run a few LED light in the evening.

FYI, not interested in solar. I live to far north, the payoff in over 20 years. Plus my southern roof is shaded by trees.

Thanks for your interest in my project. I am just in the planning stages now.


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## Studhauler

I was originally thinking of using a alternator from a pick-up or big truck, but gearing would reduce efficacy.

I could use a low speed permanent magnet generator something like this.

http://www.ginlong.com/wind-turbine... gearing that 5000rpm for an automotive type.


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## swampyoaks

What type of charge controller will you be using? Will there be an inverter? What voltage will the battery bank be wired for? I run an energy star refrigerator and a 12 cubic foot freezer off a battery bank and inverter. It takes about 4 KWH a day to keep the battery bank fully charged from my solar array.


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## Studhauler

I haven't looked into charge controllers yet. Yes there will be a inverter. I will grid tie it. The battery bank will be either 12v or 24v.

I was mostly concerned with the mechanics at the top of the tower. I was hoping to learn from someone else mistakes. It looks like I have to make my own.

At 4KW a day, do you have any other item on that circuit?


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## swampyoaks

Nothing else is on that circuit. Today the charge controller put 3.7 KWH 273 AH into that circuit. Was a bit cooler today. During the 90 degree days it was pushing over 5KWH into the circuit if the day was sunny enough. We have no air conditioning so it was hitting close to 90 in the house those days.


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## wind power

Hi Studhauler,
If you are wnating a good and cheap charge controller< iwuld lookingo Glen Hurd's charge controllers,..they come as a tiny kit, they are easy to assemble and work great on 12 or 24 volts...I think they are around 17 bucks or so.

As to the windmill, an alternator built around the other power/Hugh Piggot designs would possibly work good for you. If you added a larger and smaller chain sproket to step up your output rpms...you could probably pull it off with the aeromotor style mill.
Just go to other power and search: Chris Olson/Chain drive, you could spin off from his ideas


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## Wheeloptions

You might consider using one or more wheelchair motors. They are permanent magnet type, mostly 4 pole brush units these days, and most have a rated max run speed of about 3600 rpm, but produce power at much less. Although there are a few (very few) models that are coupled with in line gearboxes, I don't think the gearboxes would be robust enough to hold up to continuous service. The motors are quite rebuildable with standard bearings, and I bet you could ask some local shops for blown motor/gearboxes where the gearbox is blown, but the motor is still fine and get them for free. I would probably experiment with cogged belt drives before resorting to gears or chains. I think they would be smoother, more forgiving in design, and fairly efficient.


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## ace admirer

the old blades make torque at low wind speeds (enough to pump water) but stall at higher wind speeds (one method of preventing runaways). 

the old multiblades are not a good design for electrical generation...


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## wy_white_wolf

Studhauler said:


> I haven't looked into charge controllers yet. Yes there will be a inverter. I will grid tie it. The battery bank will be either 12v or 24v......


Since it wouldn't be UL listed you might end up with big problems trying to grid tie it. Very few power companies or government agencies would allow it.

WWW


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## Jim-mi

We hear from those who are going to "grid tie" with cheap equipment . . .big ideas . .. 

But we don't hear from those peoples who have done so, and the cheapo's have gone Snap Crackle & Pop & Smoke..........

No Utility will knowingly allow "grid tie" with any equipment that is not certified.


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## AVanarts

One thing that I don't understand at all is why would anyone want to grid tie? By doing a grid tie system you tell the "authorities" where your stuff is so they can come take if/when they decide they have more use for it than you do.


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## farminghandyman

AVanarts said:


> One thing that I don't understand at all is why would anyone want to grid tie? By doing a grid tie system you tell the "authorities" where your stuff is so they can come take if/when they decide they have more use for it than you do.


on grid tie, you save on massive battery costs, and for some one that that is all ready on the grid and does not want to exchange most every thing for some thing smaller or different fueled, grid tie for saving moneys is a logical way to go, (not nessarly an independent way to go), and if one does go down then it is not a situation were one is with out power, 

I think if one is building and building with an off grid mentality then that is great but if one has been grid tied for many years to reduce one to an off grid situation is not that easy many times,


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## damoc

As others have said old high torque wind mills don't make the best turbine for power generation simply because you will have to gear things up and hence introduce losses in the form of extra friction and more parts to wear out. Yes it could sure be done but hoping that someone else has already done all the testing and experimentation for you is very optimistic.Also how much work do you want to put into reinventing the wheel if your windmill is approaching the end of its useful life. Most of the wind mills I have checked out on a cattle ranch I worked for were already very worn to the point that I would not even mess with them no matter how cool they were. If you want to keep looking into this the otherpower website is probably your best resource.

good luck


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## Bob A

So someone on there first post brought back a thread that was started in 2011 with what looks to be a link to sell something...

Locking threads after no post for 90 days would be great...


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