# Single Moms would you buy a simple house?



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Would you be interested in buying a livable but unfinished house?
A house with a kitchen and a bathroom ,plumbing and wiring ,sheet rock on the interior walls and the outside finished.
A big open plan kitchen dining living area
Master bedroom one bedroom and one bathroom enclosed
Very basic fixtures and appliances


The idea being that you get the living space cheap and an opportunity to build sweat equity doing things like finishing sheet rock painting sheet rock buying your carpet in a color you like on clearance maybe a year down the line perhaps finding the very fancy fixtures you want at habitat for humanity etc.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Livable but unfinished can be a problem if you need a mortgage.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

How “finished” does a mortgage require?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

It varies by mortgage holder and insurer I believe. Also the equity you have in the home. Less equity the stickier they can be. Then it also has to have a COA and the building department decides on how finished it must be for that.

Lots of people would be happy with an unfinished home but there are many laws and regulations that don't allow that.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

From what I've learned from selling the farm, it really depends on if the buyer is going through the government for a loan. HUD, USDA etc. are all very, very picky about what they'll accept.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

What I’m thinkinking is a simple as possible but set up be easily upgraded and expanded.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> What I’m thinkinking is a simple as possible but set up be easily upgraded and expanded.


It's a good concept, but it would have to conform to specs for a mortgage.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Hummm


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

One has to understand what "unfinished" means. What mortgage companies are interested in is "Livable" and in some areas, "to code". American Stand said all fixtures were installed, The walls and outside are complete. The only things it needs is carpeting and painting. That's not really an unfinished house. And any house can be sold "as is". If one is concerned about having enough money to finish off the house, get a couple bids, and add it to the mortgage.

If one is worried about financing, it's easy enough to get a mortgage broker who deals in different types of loans from different places and get a non-conforming loan (just a couple points higher).

BTW: I believe target selling is discriminatory....


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

To get to the point where you can get a Certificate of Occupancy or have most lenders willing to lend against it, you would only be able to leave a few things unfinished. Maybe drywall taping, painting, some floor coverings, can't think of much else. Most house purchases appliance are extra anyway. 

When you look at the cost of the the drywall taping, painting and carpet relative to the cost of the whole house, the saving isn't that big as a percentage. Particularly if you amortize the difference over 25 years as part of a slightly larger mortgage. The difference to your monthly payment would not likely be enough to justify living in semi-finished space for a period of some years.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Think it might be bigger than your expect. 
Think of the rooms that would NOT be built ,a master bedroom a master bathroom a separate utility room a dining room family room afront porch and back porch. 
no carpets or flooring
You would have just a few of the least expensive fixtures


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

And I’m not sure that the amount saved would be in consequential
Often builders a lot $30 a gallon for paint in that much more for the labor to paint with
That’s $60 a gallon for paint you can pick up at Menards for five bucks
Worse yet with that 60 dollars becomes part of a 40 year mortgage it’s going to cost you 150 bucks. 
Make that five bucks for Menards oops paint look pretty good. 
Similar savings can be made in carpet even better savings can be made on fixtures. Etc etc.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Think of the rooms that would NOT be built


They make no difference at all.
Most single moms won't have time to do much work on the house while working to pay for the house and raise the kids.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol single moms Are amazingly resourceful when it comes to getting things done on their house....... and resilient


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

A single mom in the income bracket you are targeting more than likely could not afford the extra increase in mortgage for extra unfinished space. The market you should consider is young couples or singles who can live in one room and finish the rest as needed. That is what I did with my first home. I built it myself. Only 900 square feet and lived on the first floor and finished the second floor as I could afford it.

I could see that with many different people. A one bedroom or studio on the first floor complete with kitchen and bathroom. A second floor/attic completely unfinished except for some electrical. They could then finish as they need or could afford. The mortgage company would okay with that as should the building department.

The key is having enclosed space but still livable finished space. That way they don't have to worry about foundation or exterior work.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Where would the children sleep?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I always thought you could build in an area the size of a good size storage room into a hallway and build in bunk beds. Slide a door across it during the day and then maybe just curtains when they are in bed.

My Dad, my brother came I shared a one bedroom apartment when my parents split.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

SRSLADE said:


> Where would the children sleep?


 The two bedrooms I’m thinking of would actually wind up being kids rooms with the idea a large master bedroom and bath could be finished sometime.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> The two bedrooms I’m thinking of would actually wind up being kids rooms with the idea a large master bedroom and bath could be finished sometime.


I didn't get that when i first read it. It's a three bedroom house.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Are amazingly resourceful when it comes to getting things done on their house....... and resilient


That doesn't add hours to the day.
You're also assuming they would have the needed skills and tools.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Considering what is already done on the house, finishing wouldn't break the bank. Just enough to satisfy the bank.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That doesn't add hours to the day.
> You're also assuming they would have the needed skills and tools.


No I’m assuming the house would not appeal to those without either the skills and tools or the desire to acquire those


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Would you be interested in buying a livable but unfinished house?
> A house with a kitchen and a bathroom ,plumbing and wiring ,sheet rock on the interior walls and the outside finished.
> A big open plan kitchen dining living area
> Master bedroom one bedroom and one bathroom enclosed
> ...


Yes! How much?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

$90,000


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> $90,000


Illinois? That might not be bad depending on where it is.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

AmericanStand said:


> Would you be interested in buying a livable but unfinished house?
> A house with a kitchen and a bathroom ,plumbing and wiring ,sheet rock on the interior walls and the outside finished.
> A big open plan kitchen dining living area
> Master bedroom one bedroom and one bathroom enclosed
> ...


Location,location, location. City, county,country(farm) state, and size of house, size of lot etc. Type of roof, Grable, etc. Type of roof material. Is it up to code. Diff. codes in different states. Also different codes in different locations in the state. Election in. Water in. If no electric building has to be up to code to get electric and also be up to code for building and tax purposes. This is just a few things to look at before selling. 
The items a buyer looks at after location is type of footing, foundation, framing, etc.

The building has to be up to code to get home insurances.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

most codes won't allow you to drywall until all the plumbing and electrical are inspected.
what the loan company wants is a house they can easily sell if the house gets re posses ed..
interesting idea, though..


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## siberian (Aug 23, 2011)

Better be paying cash. Don't think a bank will touch it.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol you guys are a hoot. Lots of naysayers saying you can’t do it. For this reason or that. 
But that wasn’t the question 
The question was would a house you could build sweat equity in and buy cheap appeal to single moms. 
Really that’s the only question that interests the OP


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yes, it would, if they have cash AND the skills to do the work. I think the potential market share is small.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I think you are right. That the reason I wanted input from potential buyers. 
I also see it appealing to young families


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Money and skills and motivation.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol you guys are a hoot. Lots of naysayers saying you can’t do it. For this reason or that.
> But that wasn’t the question
> The question was would a house you could build sweat equity in and buy cheap appeal to single moms.
> Really that’s the only question that interests the OP


I think it would work. Maybe on a case by case basis. I wouldn't build ten of them but one at a time. HGTV has lots of moms hankering to dive in. 

I don't think you should narrow your client base. Offer it to everyone. Jim Walter made a good living in just this very same thing. Offer a completed house or just one dried in but offer everything in between.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

My motivation isn’t to make a lot of money it’s to create a lot of homes


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I’m not sure I could legally limit my client base. To many anti discrimination laws.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> No I’m assuming the house would not appeal to those without either the skills and tools or the desire to acquire those


That would be most single mom's.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That would be most single mom's.


Lol
Once again I have to ask what are your qualifications to comment on the subject?
You seem to be rather disparaging Of single moms.
Every single mom I have ever met had a huge desire to learn how to fix or maintain their household.
I am suspicious that the chance to obtain a nice home at a reasonable price would provide even more incentive for them to learn the homeowner arts.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> I am suspicious that the chance to obtain *a nice home at a reasonable price* would provide even more incentive for them to learn the homeowner arts.


If that's what they wanted they wouldn't be looking for a new-but-unfinished home.

You love to ask what makes me qualified, but I've not seen your qualifications either.

I've done both framing and finish carpentry work, and hung and finished sheetrock, so I know what tools and skills are required.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

OK. I have creds here. Mother, former teacher, former PAL sponsor, served on many committees in the district looking at the issues. Have good friends who were single moms. Some are contemporaries. Some were students.

MOST single moms are low income, if not due to divorce, then to having been unmarried at all. 

MOST single moms are struggling to pay rent, food, healthcare, and daycare. 

I'm not saying it's impossible for them to handle finishing a house, but it's only realistic to look at the BIG picture. Do you want to market to a niche?

Article:
ttps://thelifeofasinglemom.com/single-mother-statistics-parent/


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I had the benefit of having a father who was a house painter and a builder. We did projects together. I learned how to use tools.

Most of my contemporaries are mystified by what I can do. 

My daughter in law's generation has NO interest in learning. (yeah, a generalization)

I talk to a few folks in the trades. When I tell them that I "speak construction," the relief is both visible and stated aloud.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> OK. I have creds here.....I'm not saying it's impossible for them to handle finishing a house, but it's only realistic to look at the BIG picture. Do you want to market to a niche?
> 
> Article:
> ttps://thelifeofasinglemom.com/single-mother-statistics-parent/


 Yes yes I do !
Actually I would like to market these houses to young families, beginning families. 
Sadly I realize that is comprised of a lot of single mothers now a day


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> Yes yes I do !
> Actually I would like to market these houses to young families, beginning families.
> Sadly I realize that is comprised of a lot of single mothers now a day


You could could partner with organizations that will help single mothers with financing and finishing.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

So the sheetrock is installed, the floors are tiled, house just needs tape, mud and paint? Carpet if desired?
Lots of single moms would put that sweat equity into a home. I know several that did just that in the late 70's. My mom was one of them. FHA, first time buyers loans. Finishing and painting were done in lieu of a downpayment. The homes were in a newly built development.
But maybe single moms of todays world are different.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol
> Once again I have to ask what are your qualifications to comment on the subject?
> You seem to be rather disparaging Of single moms.
> Every single mom I have ever met had a huge desire to learn how to fix or maintain their household.
> I am suspicious that the chance to obtain a nice home at a reasonable price would provide even more incentive for them to learn the homeowner arts.


I did a lot of work on my house, which was a fixer upper but I also had access to tools my father's tools and he was a valuable resource. 

While BFF may not be a single mom, he is right. Not many have power and hand tools for home renos in their hip pocket. 

I'd be curious about the cost to get into the house. I needed 10% down for a mortgate, the difference in property taxes, legal fees, a mortgage broker, a mortgage inspection and a water well test. My $4,000 turned into $10,000 pretty quick. Without family assistance on the extras, my kids would have been raised in an apartment in town.

I'd be concerned if I were carrying the mortgate because not everybody finds they have skills for renos so the work done could be either very good or very bad but if you're financing, the results of poor workmanship could become your problem. 

I'm not saying it can't be done but I am saying it would have been impossible for me to take on a project home with three small kids and two jobs without some serious additional assistance.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> The two bedrooms I’m thinking of would actually wind up being kids rooms with the idea a large master bedroom and bath could be finished sometime.


I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that there are more rooms or area in the house that are totally unfinished or are you looking at an unfinished basement as potential for more space?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

wr said:


> Are you saying that there are more rooms or area in the house that are totally unfinished or are you looking at an unfinished basement as potential for more space?


He's talking about building on a future addition.

The OP described a small 2 bedroom house:


AmericanStand said:


> A house with a kitchen and a bathroom ,plumbing and wiring ,sheet rock on the interior walls and the outside finished.
> A big open plan kitchen dining living area
> Master bedroom one bedroom and one bathroom enclosed
> Very basic fixtures and appliances


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

No need to re-invent the wheel.
https://habitatkalamazoo.org/our-210th-habitat-home-dedication/

And as an aside, this was some of the most satisfying work I have ever done. (But I wouldn't expect a single mom with children to be able to do taping and mudding on their own, without an experienced guide. Priming, painting, yes, with a little help.)....

geo


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

I will just assume that I am also unqualified to answer just as BFF is.
but you asked a question, and you did not specify who could answer.
you laughed at people for going off on a tangent, and then two posts later you added beginning families.
does that include a husband ? If not, why the qualification ?
Most single moms have extended families. we can assume that a family member or two or friends would help in the finishing work. 
in the post you said "drywall". does that mean taped or not taped ? 
If a woman can frost a cake, she would not have any problem taping drywall..


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> If a woman can frost a cake, she would not have any problem taping drywall..


lol yeah I’ve noticed that


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> I will just assume that I am also unqualified to answer just as BFF is.
> but you asked a question, and you did not specify who could answer.
> you laughed at people for going off on a tangent, and then two posts later you added beginning families.
> does that include a husband ? If not, why the qualification ?
> ...


 Well the title pretty well specifies who I’m asking the question. 
But considering this forum I certainly didn’t expect Responses from just single women. 
but I would like to stay somewhat on topic. 

Responses like “my daughter converted a garage into the house “or “when my daughter was buying a house she was creeped out by the unfinished family room........“
Could be helpful


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> He's talking about building on a future addition.
> 
> The OP described a small 2 bedroom house:



No I didn’t. 

Come on BFF This is a serious question before I spend some serious amounts of money to do some serious good please don’t do your usual submarine act on this thread.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wr said:


> I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that there are more rooms or area in the house that are totally unfinished or are you looking at an unfinished basement as potential for more space?


I’m talking about having a good size home inclosed ,1200-2000sqft,
But having only separated off two bedrooms and a bath. 
This would leave a huge space , it would be open plan kitchen family room dining room etc.
Later if desired that huge space could be separated into family room, master bedroom, utility room Other bedrooms , Dining den etc.
Or left open.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wr said:


> I did a lot of work on my house, which was a fixer upper but I also had access to tools my father's tools and he was a valuable resource.
> 
> While BFF may not be a single mom, he is right. Not many have power and hand tools for home renos in their hip pocket.
> 
> ...


excellent !
I plan to address your first point by Leaving stuff to do that requires simple and inexpensive tools, mostly tools that a homeowner should have around the house anyway. 
For instance the tools to paint a house or essentially a roller and a couple of brushes there are lots of other little things That can make it handy But they are mostly cheap tools like painting guides or not really needed like Airless sprayers. 
I plan to address your last point by having the house livable from the get go. But simple easily upgradable, things you can do in small steps that anyone can handle.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I kind of see it in steps the first thing someone would probably do is mud in the drywall. Like said before most mothers would find that like frosting a cake.
Then painting would come easy. At that point they would’ve made such a big difference that I would hope they’d have the confidence to lay a floor or build a wall. Each project would build some skills but more importantly confidence. 
Sure it might take a while before they’re ready to put in a master bath with plumbing and wiring but it wouldn’t be a real immediate need and those things could be Contracted out if/when money was available.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> No I didn’t.


I copied and pasted the OP.
You described a 2 bedroom house, then later mentioned adding on more rooms.



> AmericanStand said: ↑
> Would you be interested in buying a livable but unfinished house?
> A house with a kitchen and a bathroom ,plumbing and wiring ,sheet rock on the interior walls and the outside finished.
> A big open plan kitchen dining living area
> ...





AmericanStand said:


> Come on BFF *This is a serious question* before I spend some serious amounts of money to do some serious good please don’t do your usual submarine act on this thread.





> AmericanStand said: ↑
> What I’m thinkinking is a simple as possible but set up be easily upgraded and *expanded*.





AmericanStand said:


> The two bedrooms I’m thinking of would actually wind up being kids rooms with the idea* a large master bedroom and bath could be finished sometime*.





AmericanStand said:


> The question was would a house you could build sweat equity in and buy cheap appeal to single moms.


The answer to that isn't going to change.
It's still no.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

OK, I stand corrected, since I am not a single mom, I withdraw any of my comments, and I suggest the rest of you non single moms do the same..


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I suggest the rest of you non single moms do the same..


That's probably the smartest option.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> OK, I stand corrected, since I am not a single mom, I withdraw any of my comments, and I suggest the rest of you non single moms do the same..


Lol
No don’t do that, As anticipated your comments were useful and on topic.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

BFF
You keep ignoring a key parts of the op
“A big open plan kitchen dining living area”

“The idea being that you get the living space cheap “


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

Where I live if you build new you cannot get a occupancy permit until the house is completely finished right down to hand rails!. If you bought a partially finished house you need to show you have the means to finish it if you are borrowing and the work has to be done before you move in. You can get a second mortgage to bring the house up to code and finish it but who wants two mortgages?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Hummmm
I don’t think that will be a problem . No CO here. Heck we don’t even have any codes.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Do you already own the land? Do you have cash to build the first house? Is this on a sewer system or will there be septic systems for each unit?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Depends on where I build. 
Does it make a difference whether I have the cash to build this or not?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Absolutely it does. If you have to borrow money, your expenses are increased. 

My questions are basic business.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I have been down a similar planning road with a friend, so this is familiar territory.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I see
Although I plan to make a profit it’s not about the profit
I would really like to help some good young families and help maintain a little life in my small town. 
The mortgage question has me up in the air. Obviously I could build more houses faster if I got paid cash for each house. But at the same time I might be able to do more good by owner financing. 
Ideally I would do good and do well at the same time


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I started my own project in that vein with rent houses. They are now transitioning to owner financed. It’s currently half and half.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> I’m talking about having a good size home inclosed ,1200-2000sqft,
> But having only separated off two bedrooms and a bath.
> This would leave a huge space , it would be open plan kitchen family room dining room etc.
> Later if desired that huge space could be separated into family room, master bedroom, utility room Other bedrooms , Dining den etc.
> Or left open.


That's going to require a lot of extra work and money and the pitfall with someone without construction experience is always what they don't know. I was fortunate that my father could coach me and I could benefit from his knowledge but when I started but without it, I could very well caused serious structural damage. 

It's easy to assume those tools are inexpensive but do they really fit in the budget? Without using family tools, there would have been no room in my budget for groceries, school supplies and clothing for so much as even a hammer and nails. 

If you're looking at building more than one of these and considering single mothers as your target, why not have them help you build their house, which would allow them to gain some of those skills that they'll need to upgrade later on?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> I see
> Although I plan to make a profit it’s not about the profit
> I would really like to help some good young families and help maintain a little life in my small town.
> The mortgage question has me up in the air. Obviously I could build more houses faster if I got paid cash for each house. But at the same time I might be able to do more good by owner financing.
> Ideally I would do good and do well at the same time


What happens when someone defaults and worse yet, what happens if they default in the middle of shoddy renos? You're stuck with the consequences of their actions.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

What are Reno’s ?
Yes it’s bad if someone defaults. 
But remember it’s a simple basic structure so less exposure than usual. Not that some could do find a way to tear up a new anvil.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> What are Reno’s ?
> Yes it’s bad if someone defaults.
> But remember it’s a simple basic structure so less exposure than usual. Not that some could do find a way to tear up a new anvil.


Renovations. I know someone who rented a house in need of a few repairs/upgrades, who is now stuck with a fully gutted bathroom. No sink, taps, tile, flooring, walls or toilet and the pipes will have to be replaced.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I bought a house that was being lived in by a fellow who was “renovating” it. No bathroom walls.  No flooring, etc. 

The upside was that it was on a third of an acre and solid underneath. $10,000 purchase price. $20,000 renovation. 

Rented it out for years. Sold at a $20,000 profit over the purchase and renovation expenses, owner finance, so I also had the interest as icing on the cake.


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

If you are serious about this, you would be better off building a simple but complete 2 bedroom house, and selling it for cost plus 10%. You could seller-finance the down pmt of 20% and the single mom could bank finance the rest.

This would allow you to plow most of your capital into the next project quickly. It allows the single mom to live in fully finished space and spend her free time raising her kid rather than sanding drywall. And she would be building equity in an asset that isn't discounted by amateur renovations or unfinished space. Its also a cleaner process for both building codes and lending.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Whatever path you choose remember that this is business not charity.
Keep your distance or you will have an extended family you may not want.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

First of all, a 2000 sq ft house is not a starter house for most folks. 
Why not put in that wall and make it a 3 bdrm house? Certainly not expensive to do yet raises the value considerably. Although the larger it is, the cheaper it is to build. Do you know what house sells? How many bedrooms? How many baths? What the sq. footage is?
From your comments, American Stand, I'd say you need to do a lot of learning about building houses and financing before you go into something like this and loose your shirt. my gosh -- you talk about owner financing yet don't even know what a reno is. How about a repo? Know the ins and outs of that?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I am also concerned there.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> The mortgage question has me up in the air. Obviously I could build more houses faster if I got paid cash for each house. But at the same time I might be able to do more good by owner financing.


These sentences in juxtaposition are confusing.

I think I know what you meant, but....


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

The term Reno in this context confused me. I suppose because no one would be doing any. Well can it be a Reno if it the first time it’s built.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> These sentences in juxtaposition are confusing.
> 
> I think I know what you meant, but....


 That the shorter time my money is tied up the quicker it can be used to build another.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Wolf mom said:


> First of all, a 2000 sq ft house is not a starter house for most folks.
> Why not put in that wall and make it a 3 bdrm house? Certainly not expensive to do yet raises the value considerably. Although the larger it is, the cheaper it is to build. Do you know what house sells? How many bedrooms? How many baths? What the sq. footage is?
> From your comments, American Stand, I'd say you need to do a lot of learning about building houses and financing before you go into something like this and loose your shirt. my gosh -- you talk about owner financing yet don't even know what a reno is. How about a repo? Know the ins and outs of that?


 How many houses do I need to build to be qualified to build a house ?
Hummm There’s got to be a better way to word the question. It’s just not coming to me.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

You would need to build the first house cash then sell it O/F. Since you own all the equity you get a refi on the value of the house. Most banks will let you take out 80% so you would need 20% down + the 80% from the bank to build the next one. Sell, repeat, sell repeat. 

Bear in mind (and I am not trying to be a downer here) that it cost more per square foot to build a small house than it does a large house. That means these small houses will end up costing more for a starter home. Even if you do most of the work yourself you still need to factor in your time. Jim Walter Homes would do the same thing you are proposing but wanted the new owners to provide the land. The land was tied into the equity in Jim Walters name until it was paid for so if they defaulted the land went with the house. If they don't have any money into the house they will not treat it like their own for about 5 years or until they have some skin in the game. That's why you need to have some kind of down payment. 

Check credit, job history and criminal background. You can do this easily with an app these days. You can even collect the payments with an app these days. You can do anything you need to do with an app these days. Research everything you don't know and even the stuff you think you know. Join a Real estate investment club in your area as they will have valuable contacts you don't need to live without.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I just have my renters and folks making loan payments send their deposits to the bank account. Some mail it. Some send it electronically. No app necessary.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

mreynolds,

Your second point is why I don’t plan to build a small house. 
Square footage is relatively cheap. 
It’s finish that costs tons


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Will you have a schedule of finishing projects and dates they should be completed?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

You are far better of building a two story home with either an unfinished basement or second floor. That is the cheapest way to maximize square footage and not have to finish everything. It satisfies the mortgage company and the building department.

There is another way. Build in a rentable suite in the home.. They can rent for income until they can afford to live in the entire home themselves.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

What is y’all’s purpose here?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Reno short for renovation. 

Seriously people, a single mom isn't capable of or willing to paint a few walls or lay down a large rug? Almost everyone repaints a house as soon as they buy it. Why not just skip the step and let the potential owners paint it their own color from the start. Paint isn't always cheap but you can get the mistint paint for a little more than a gallon of orange juice. 

The open floor plan of family room, dining area, kitchen is a 70's concept. A lot of cookie cutter houses have such a floor plan. I know all the ones we looked at had that open area which could later be divided, if desired.

To me, the biggest hurdle would be for the buyers to find a way to bring home the materials for building more walls. You can't find those old huge station wagons or big vans anymore. Lowes cuts lumber for free so you really don't need a saw. You can buy hammers at yard sales or flea markets for a couple bucks. The most expensive tool you would need might be a drill, but every homeowner needs a good drill and set of bits. There are books and youtube for instructions on how to do just about any home repairs or renovations needed.

If I can tape, mud, paint, build a wall or install a faucet just about anyone can do it! And no, hubby didn't help.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

What if it was just one big box with no interior walls (maybe the bathrooms would be walled off). Raw flooring maybe.

Would that lower the price? Meet codes? Be less expensive?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

First cleanup.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> What if it was just one big box with no interior walls (maybe the bathrooms would be walled off). Raw flooring maybe.
> 
> Would that lower the price? Meet codes? Be less expensive?


Knew a landlord for a while that said the perfect rental property was unpainted cinderblock, flat metal roof, no interior walls and a 6" drain in the middle with a tap for a fire hose.
I think it spoke more about his success, or lack of, as a landlord than it did about a mainstream business model.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> How many houses do I need to build to be qualified to build a house ?
> Hummm There’s got to be a better way to word the question. It’s just not coming to me.


It's not just hammering nails, AmericanStand. It's like Alice keeps saying - doing good is fine, but you better understand all the aspects of real estate building and financing before you sink money and time into something as large as a house and loose your shirt. So far, I don't think you "get it". Nor do I think you really understand the life and finances of a low income single Mom.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> Knew a landlord for a while that said the perfect rental property was unpainted cinderblock, flat metal roof, no interior walls and a 6" drain in the middle with a tap for a fire hose.
> I think it spoke more about his success, or lack of, as a landlord than it did about a mainstream business model.


My business model is fix them as nice or better than the one I live in...


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HDRider said:


> What if it was just one big box with no interior walls (maybe the bathrooms would be walled off). Raw flooring maybe.
> 
> Would that lower the price? Meet codes? Be less expensive?


 That’s pretty much where I was going
Thinking one end with two bedrooms with a bathroom between them. A kitchen in one of the Remaining corners 
And a big open space that could be everything else. 
however it’s so cheap to build one more master bedroom And then have The ever popular three-bedroom house and no possible conflicts between boys and girls in the same bedroom that I might just do that.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol Perhaps I should include a few pre-built modular walls


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Why don't you just study the habitat for humanity model or connect with the local chapter?

It sounds like you're attempting something similar


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I don't see the economics of one big open space that would need walls later to divide it.

You would have wall costs and doors for its entrance and a closet door. Running wall cost somewhere from $3.00 to 6.00 a square foot with labor included. Two to three hundred for doors. You need to do the math. You would have a better return on investment if you just did that when the house was being built because doing it after costs way more than doing it at the time.

You would need some outlets and lighting and switches as well. Far easier to do that in the initial construction. Much cheaper as well.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

coolrunnin said:


> Why don't you just study the habitat for humanity model or connect with the local chapter?
> 
> It sounds like you're attempting something similar


 I know they sound similar but they’re actually much different my idea is inexpensive housing for beginning families with the additional benefit of helping a small town survive
I also plan on making a profit
Doing well while doing good


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

painterswife said:


> I don't see the economics of one big open space that would need walls later to divide it.
> 
> You would have wall costs and doors for its entrance and a closet door. Running wall cost somewhere from $3.00 to 6.00 a square foot with labor included. Two to three hundred for doors. You need to do the math. You would have a better return on investment if you just did that when the house was being built because doing it after costs way more than doing it at the time.
> 
> You would need some outlets and lighting and switches as well. Far easier to do that in the initial construction. Much cheaper as well.


 The upside to not having placed walls in the large space is that it leaves the option of finishing it in anyway you want one large space separate dining room separate family room etc.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> The upside to not having placed walls in the large space is that it leaves the option of finishing it in anyway you want one large space separate dining room separate family room etc.


I think you are focused on something that you think will fit a certain market without understanding the realities of the market. Yes some single mothers could finish it off the way you expect. That market though is very small.

I will use my mother as an example. She bought a home with an unfinished basement. It was 10 years and a new husband before she could find the money to do the work to finish it off even with free labor. Putting in new wall in a home is more expensive and also dangerous and dirty to do while you are living in it with kids. It is just not that feasible for most single mothers. Now they could finish off a separate closed-off space much easier. Keeping the chaos and mess separated.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

How about showing it open with the offer to place new walls anywhere before closing. ?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> How about showing it open with the offer to place new walls anywhere before closing. ?


It will cost you more to put walls in after. If you want to help them then put the walls in and don't make a profit on that part. It will appraise for more right off the bat and they will have more equity in it to start. You are not saving money this way. You are not really helping them either.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol wall as are pretty cheap. 
Come to think of it we have always put up interior walls after erecting the outside walls setting trusses and drying in the roof
So I really don’t see any difference


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

You're not thinking things through, AmericanStand. Most interior room walls are framed in at the same time. Then wall boarding, etc.. You're talking about wall boarding the interior then later framing in some walls. What about the carpeting? Going to build a wall on top of it? Or rip it out - that's not cost effective. There's a reason houses are built a certain way - it's called time and money. I'm beginning to think you're just throwing ideas out with no thought behind them.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Wolf mom said:


> You're not thinking things through, AmericanStand. Most interior room walls are framed in at the same time. Then wall boarding, etc.. You're talking about wall boarding the interior then later framing in some walls. What about the carpeting? Going to build a wall on top of it? Or rip it out - that's not cost effective. There's a reason houses are built a certain way - it's called time and money. I'm beginning to think you're just throwing ideas out with no thought behind them.


Not to mention you need to run electric in those walls, make sure they are properly attached top and bottom. You will need to remove drywall to attach. It is just not cost effective to do them after.

Sorry AS, you have to think smart not cheap just to get them into a home. There are far better ways to save money and provide a good product.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

painterswife said:


> Not to mention you need to run electric in those walls, make sure they are properly attached top and bottom. You will need to remove drywall to attach. It is just not cost effective to do them after.
> 
> Sorry AS, you have to think smart not cheap just to get them into a home. There are far better ways to save money and provide a good product.


I'm still not seeing why you can't do similar to habitat with the homeowner getting the sweat equity in at the beginning have a finished mortgage ready home.
Maybe to help owner finance for a couple years then balloon the balance


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Also they can work with builders to gain skills they probably don't have


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I don’t think you guys are really listening. 
I won’t build on top of carpet cause there won’t be any. 
Setting a wall against sheet rock is no big deal. Wiring a inside wall might cost a bit more but we are talking less than a hour extra labor to run a wire in the attic to service a wall


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

coolrunnin said:


> I'm still not seeing why you can't do similar to habitat with the homeowner getting the sweat equity in at the beginning have a finished mortgage ready home.
> Maybe to help owner finance for a couple years then balloon the balance


 It’s not that I can’t it’s just I don’t want to


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Not even close on the electric thats reno work very pricey and rarely DIY.


AmericanStand said:


> I don’t think you guys are really listening.
> I won’t build on top of carpet cause there won’t be any.
> Setting a wall against sheet rock is no big deal. Wiring a inside wall might cost a bit more but we are talking less than a hour extra labor to run a wire in the attic to service a wall


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> I don’t think you guys are really listening.
> *I won’t build on top of carpet cause there won’t be any.*
> Setting a wall against sheet rock is no big deal. Wiring a inside wall might cost a bit more but we are talking less than a hour extra labor to run a wire in the attic to service a wall


Nope - you are confusing yourself. You stated building a house (and selling it to a single mom) with a large room where she could later add walls. Now you are saying you are going to build the walls.... Give it up.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> I don’t think you guys are really listening.
> I won’t build on top of carpet cause there won’t be any.
> Setting a wall against sheet rock is no big deal. Wiring a inside wall might cost a bit more but we are talking less than a hour extra labor to run a wire in the attic to service a wall


I am listening. I just don't think your plan really provides the best bang for someones buck.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

My interior walls are not “set against sheetrock.”

That isn’t how it’s done.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Wolf mom said:


> I'm beginning to think you're just throwing ideas out with no thought behind them.


Bingo.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I wouldn’t go that far.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Building walls is completely different from just painting. If I had to build a wall it wouldn't be covered with sheetrock. Nasty, dusty stuff, and too heavy for most women (and some men) to maneuver and install alone. None of the women I knew would have tried building walls, installing sheetrock or running electric. Building walls is a whole 'nother ball game.

I can install paneling myself but would never attempt sheetrock alone.


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