# How Close Is Total Social and Economic Collapse?



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

IMHO we are probably not looking at a total collapse but segments of the economy are scrambling to recover. There are some interesting points made in the article.

How Close Is Total Social and Economic Collapse? ⋆ Brownstone Institute





BROWNSTONE » ARTICLES » HOW CLOSE IS TOTAL SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC COLLAPSE?








*How Close Is Total Social and Economic Collapse?*
BY JEFFREY A. TUCKER OCTOBER 15, 2021 ECONOMICS, POLICY, PUBLIC HEALTH, SOCIETY 8 MINUTE READ
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Economies and societies fall apart slowly, then a bit more, then all at once. We seem to be in the middle period of this trajectory. The slow part began March 2020 when politicians around the world imagined that it would be no big deal to shut down the economy and restart it once the virus went away. What a beautiful display of the power of government it would be, or so they believed. We’ll all have a big celebration, said the president.

The virus was never going to go away, which meant that there was no exit ramp. Congress spent money and the Fed cranked up the presses to pay the bills, while checks were stuffed into bank accounts all over the country, all to mask the growing economic devastation.

None of it worked. You cannot turn off an economy and normal social functioning and then turn them back on like a light switch. The attempt alone will necessarily cause unpredictable amounts of long-term breakage, not only of economic structures but also of the spirit of a people. Everything going on now reflects the disastrous presumption that doing that would be possible and not cause dramatic and lasting damage.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

It is difficult to say. In the 'roaring' 1920s did everyone see a coming crash? My impression has been that nobody saw it coming. It was completely unexpected. 

My grandfathers [both of them] farmed fields walking behind a mule. In the 1920s they were encouraged to get a farm mortgage and to use the cash to buy a ford tractor, as a tractor would increase how many acres they could till.

Nobody had any idea that a few years later the banks would lock their doors, seize all savings accounts and foreclose on all mortgages, evicting the farmers off their farms, and then those banks folded. 

The best that any one of us can do, is to be producing all of our own families' food, fuel, and fiber. With the assumption that banks will fold again, that stores will close again, cross country trade will cease again, and we will once again be left on our own without the assistance of our government for a few decades.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Society will not collapse it will reconfigure itself.

From your link "_President Biden, like in a scene out of *Atlas Shrugged*, has ordered the ports to stay open 24 hours to get the job done. Just work harder! No one believes that this order will make any difference._ "

There is your clue. 

The smart, the prepared will make their own way. Everyone else will have their hand out until the coffers and cupboards are bare. Then the hungry will come looking for the smart and the prepared. 

Then we will start the cycle all over.

The question in my mind is how the mega collectives, countries with strong central planning authority react to the confused state of the US. Honestly, I think I know the answer. They might release a virus or something.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

I fear things will get worse before they get better. I'm on a fixed income and can only do so much. Health issues involved as well. DS is in Nebraska. Not working, has PTSD. DD and DSIL sold their house in hopes of building a home near a lake. Planning a barndominium . They bought a travel trailer to live in the remainder of this year so the youngest could finish high school in the same system he started to school. Waiting now to get in to a rv park area. Moved in with me last weekend. Most of their belongings are in storage or were given/thrown away. My house is small and pretty full anyway so they are a mite crowded in my spare rooms. I don't mind them being here, but I know it is a strain on them. New grandson born this morning so they had the oldest here with them last night. He doesn't feel well, DD is at work, SIL is babysitting, my grandson is at the fieldhouse watching films of last nights football game, where he broke a finger. Their dog is in panic mode. 
I'm enjoying having the company for a change, but that will get old in time. There will me more dinners here now because of lack of room in the camper and the older kids apts. I at least have room to park and seat people for meals. Thanksgiving and Christmas may be interesting as all get out.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

The trend in the US is to move further left, sometimes quickly and sometimes more slowly, but always to the left. 

I think the only thing that can stop it would be a major religious reformation that made churches relevant again, and I don't see that happening. Without a religious revival, the religion of the left will prevail.

It is probable that things will get so bad over the next 10 years, that most of the world will move further left or further right. My guess is the globalists will push things to the left. 

What globalists need to create their one world order is for our current systems to break down and that seems to be exactly what is happening.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

ET1 SS said:


> It is difficult to say. In the 'roaring' 1920s did everyone see a coming crash? My impression has been that nobody saw it coming. It was completely unexpected.
> 
> My grandfathers [both of them] farmed fields walking behind a mule. In the 1920s they were encouraged to get a farm mortgage and to use the cash to buy a ford tractor, as a tractor would increase how many acres they could till.
> 
> ...


Yes but we are in a world of instant information. Could be why 1920 people had no idea of what went on. We dont get our news the same way.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Not very far. The whole world went into a panic, because a cargo ship blocked the Suez Canal for a few days. This should tell you how fragile our current system is. We are looking at a hard winter, rising fuel costs, slowed shipping, and stupid laws that do more harm than good. The state of California just banned the sale of new gas powered lawn mowers, and chain saws. Diesel Fuel is back up to Obama era prices, because the most popular president in history put us back at the mercy of OPEC, and we are paying huge sums of money to the largest terrorist organization in the world. What could possibly go wrong?

If we are to believe the MSM, and there was no election fraud, then we are getting just what the majority wants.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Forcast said:


> Yes but we are in a world of instant information. Could be why 1920 people had no idea of what went on. We dont get our news the same way.


There were no day traders, investment software, wifi or anything to let the guy who socked his pennies into the bank and had a little stock that a crash was coming other than the kid running newspapers up and down the sidewalk the day it happened. Jim Cramer's grandpa was probably a kid.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

The good news is ..... if we do actually have total economic collapse, old timers like my dad can finally kick back and say "I told you this was coming" 😁


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

GTX63 said:


> There were no day traders, investment software, wifi or anything to let the guy who socked his pennies into the bank and had a little stock that a crash was coming other than the kid running newspapers up and down the sidewalk the day it happened. Jim Cramer's grandpa was probably a kid.


County folk didnt run to town very often
My grandparents greatgrands went to the town maybe every 3 months if that. Greatgrand didnt have electric so radio didnt help. We have lots on here that go 2 times a year. Anyway all the instant info all the stock info is kinda new in the last 30 some years.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

ET1 SS said:


> It is difficult to say. In the 'roaring' 1920s did everyone see a coming crash? My impression has been that nobody saw it coming. It was completely unexpected.
> 
> My grandfathers [both of them] farmed fields walking behind a mule. In the 1920s they were encouraged to get a farm mortgage and to use the cash to buy a ford tractor, as a tractor would increase how many acres they could till.
> 
> ...


people been saying this since 1920. Had a friend in Fl. his Father aquired 20k acres of land in Fl. at that time. My friend in 1943 starting filling in all the properties and saling land fo houses. He made millions. That is when i decided to buy land in Fl. I hve aquired


whiterock said:


> I fear things will get worse before they get better. I'm on a fixed income and can only do so much. Health issues involved as well. DS is in Nebraska. Not working, has PTSD. DD and DSIL sold their house in hopes of building a home near a lake. Planning a barndominium . They bought a travel trailer to live in the remainder of this year so the youngest could finish high school in the same system he started to school. Waiting now to get in to a rv park area. Moved in with me last weekend. Most of their belongings are in storage or were given/thrown away. My house is small and pretty full anyway so they are a mite crowded in my spare rooms. I don't mind them being here, but I know it is a strain on them. New grandson born this morning so they had the oldest here with them last night. He doesn't feel well, DD is at work, SIL is babysitting, my grandson is at the fieldhouse watching films of last nights football game, where he broke a finger. Their dog is in panic mode.
> I'm enjoying having the company for a change, but that will get old in time. There will me more dinners here now because of lack of room in the camper and the older kids apts. I at least have room to park and seat people for meals. Thanksgiving and Christmas may be interesting as all get out.


Hope they can move soon for the good of you as well as them. First rule i have always followed when started out was get the new home ready to move in before planing to move from old home. 
P.S. What does, Ds,PDSD,DD,DSIL,SIL. stand for.  I am not to good on Letter meaning as most can mean different things. Thanks.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

101pigs said:


> people been saying this since 1920.



But, the crash *did* come after 1920.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

MoonRiver said:


> The trend in the US is to move further left, sometimes quickly and sometimes more slowly, but always to the left.
> 
> I think the only thing that can stop it would be a major religious reformation that made churches relevant again, and I don't see that happening. Without a religious revival, the religion of the left will prevail.
> 
> ...


It will take a bit of time to get back to normal with the Virus still a big deal. The trucking deal will be over soon and goods will be moving again as they should. More truckers that are out of work now will go back to work as more pay is there for them to work long hours. People are going back to work all over the country. Will not be long till auto makers will get the parts they need to make more new autoes. U.S. has the greatest economy in the world. China is on a downturn and this will also help U.S. economy. Many more Mexican and others will be coming to U.S. to fill jobs U.S. workers don't want. 6 mos. from now things will be much improved. Except the Virus will still be problem mostly because so many people will no get the shot and continue to roam around unprotected with a mask. DT will continue to go downhill. New people will move up to fill his place. Many are already turning away from him. AS the government investigates more and more about him things will force him out of the race for President. A lot of people would like to see him run again because they know he would lost big time.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

101pigs said:


> people been saying this since 1920. Had a friend in Fl. his Father aquired 20k acres of land in Fl. at that time. My friend in 1943 starting filling in all the properties and saling land fo houses. He made millions. That is when i decided to buy land in Fl. I hve aquired
> 
> 
> Hope they can move soon for the good of you as well as them. First rule i have always followed when started out was get the new home ready to move in before planing to move from old home.
> P.S. What does, Ds,PDSD,DD,DSIL,SIL. stand for.  I am not to good on Letter meaning as most can mean different things. Thanks.


dear son, ptsd post tramatic stress disorder, dear daughter, dear son in law son in law


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

101pigs said:


> People are going back to work all over the country. Will not be long till auto makers will get the parts they need to make more new autoes.


Really? 
Lots of people had gone back to work, while many chose to stick with the extended unemployment benefits. Unemployment is now “down”, but so are the new jobs numbers. Funny how those two stats being down at the same time happened to perfectly coincide with the end of the extended unemployment, huh?

Now, with Dear Leader’s vaccine mandates, as many as 20 million will lose their jobs (the 100+ mandate applies to 80MM people, 25% of whom are still unvaccinated this long after the vaccine became available to them). No doubt, a lot of those 20MM people will allow themselves to be coerced into medical rape, but a lot won’t. Be it 10, or even just 5 million who give up their jobs, those jobs won’t immediately be filled by the righteous-vaccinated, since employers have been struggling to fill open positions for the better part of a year now.

The supply chain crises is just beginning, and it has nothing to do with that DT guy living rent-free in your brain.

This one is Brandon’s fault.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

Let it collapse, I’ve got work to do.🔥


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Watch the other hand. They want people to focus on the figurehead. The true power brokers offer up an old, senile non-elected pretend president to distract. I am unsure if it is absolute confidence in their plan or desperation. They may actually believe the CNN reporting and not know what is happening in the rest of the functional USA.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Hiro said:


> Watch the other hand. They want people to focus on the figurehead. The true power brokers offer up an old, senile non-elected pretend president to distract. I am unsure if it is absolute confidence in their plan or desperation. They may actually believe the CNN reporting and not know what is happening in the rest of the functional USA.


To me, it seems obvious that the plan is to make things so bad the people will give up personal freedom for more "security".


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Hiro said:


> They may actually believe the CNN reporting and not know what is happening in the rest of the functional USA.


They do not care



MoonRiver said:


> To me, it seems obvious that the plan is to make things so bad the people will give up personal freedom for more "security".


Yep


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

101pigs said:


> It will take a bit of time to get back to normal with the Virus still a big deal. The trucking deal will be over soon and goods will be moving again as they should. More truckers that are out of work now will go back to work as more pay is there for them to work long hours. People are going back to work all over the country. Will not be long till auto makers will get the parts they need to make more new autoes. U.S. has the greatest economy in the world. China is on a downturn and this will also help U.S. economy. Many more Mexican and others will be coming to U.S. to fill jobs U.S. workers don't want. 6 mos. from now things will be much improved. Except the Virus will still be problem mostly because so many people will no get the shot and continue to roam around unprotected with a mask. DT will continue to go downhill. New people will move up to fill his place. Many are already turning away from him. AS the government investigates more and more about him things will force him out of the race for President. A lot of people would like to see him run again because they know he would lost big time.



Thank you Bafhdad Bob for that report 🤣


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

MoonRiver said:


> To me, it seems obvious that the plan is to make things so bad the people will give up personal freedom for more "security".


Exactly their plans IMHO.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

I’m not gonna call’em out but there are some here that need to put down the crack pipe and walk away…🔥


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

It is clear the economy is currently in a state of collapse and most people know it. The only question now is whether or not it can be reversed. The printing of trillions of dollars will only prolong the illusion and make matters far worse in the end. Remember Biden touting how well the economy was back in July when he used the example of the price of hot dogs for the 4th of July dropping by something like 16 cents from the previous year? It was just another scam. Look at meat prices now. Wife and I went to Sam's Club yesterday in Evansville Indiana yesterday for our quarterly stock up. They had most things but also a lot of empty space. Zero toilet paper and paper towels again just like back when the virus started. It is sad this whole economic mess was created by politicians at all levels. They can't all be that stupid and convinces me this is intentional.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

I'm with @poppy on this.

The house of cards is imploding, even though it appears to be happening in slow motion. 

There is absolutely nothing to back the currency that the parasites-in-charge are printing willy-nilly. 

The "resources" that the majority of the population have in their possession are mortgaged to the max, and they will not be able to hold on to them once the general population discovers that we are in the same position as Venezuela. 

Life is not going to return to any semblance of the "normal" we used to think we knew. Best you can do is take care of your own, and hope that the parasites don't follow through on their plan to dump the city folk in rural areas.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Pony said:


> …Best you can do is take care of your own, and hope that the parasites don't follow through on their plan to dump the city folk in rural areas.


I hadn’t heard that one. I thought the plan was to force the rural folks into cities, ala Agenda 21.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I hadn’t heard that one. I thought the plan was to force the rural folks into cities, ala Agenda 21.


Yeah, I am uncertain that is a long term survival plan for the zombies. The internet connectivity is sketchy, the drug deliveries are often interrupted by people like my DW and there are grumpy folks out here that take a dim view of looting.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Hiro said:


> Yeah, I am uncertain that is a long term survival plan for the zombies. The internet connectivity is sketchy, the drug deliveries are often interrupted by people like my DW and there are grumpy folks out here that take a dim view of looting.


Right. The Agenda 21 plan, and it’s an actual UN-sanctioned plan not just a conspiracy theory, was to greatly reduce populations, force them into smaller geographical footprints, and reduce the human presence in rural areas to the tune of banning occupancy of something like 90% of the dry land in the world. That was the only way we were going to “save the planet”, of course.

A21 and The Great Reset are actually pretty well aligned, if you look at them in the light of each other. They both arrive at the same place: those few plebes who are allowed to live and breed will live and labor at the pleasure of a very exclusive caste of elites who only consume out of necessity, for the benefit of a fragile world with which they’re charged to protect and an order they’re charged to maintain.

They’re both hugely optimistic, in terms of timeframe, in my opinion, but they kind of have to be in order to appease the sponsors of their mouthpieces (AOC, Greta Thunberg, Al Gore etc.). But, these two agendas are exactly why we hear that crap about “we only have 12 years before we run out of room to correct the global warming created by white Americans” and such. They’re trying to inject a sense of urgency to at least keep up the appearance of hitting the aggressive targets they’ve set.

The scariest part about the whole thing is that many people think they’re just conspiracy theories. They hear “Agenda 21” and “The Great Reset”, and assume they’re just some sponsor bait made up by Alex Jones or something. Most people don’t know that they’re actual proposals put forward by organizations like the United Nations and World Economic forum, who think we should take them very seriously.

We probably should take them more seriously; at least take them at their word.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Pony said:


> I'm with @poppy on this.
> 
> *The house of cards is imploding, even though it appears to be happening in slow motion.*
> 
> ...


I suspect it will be like the answer a rich man gave when someone asked him how he went bankrupt. He said "Two ways. Slowly at first and then suddenly".


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

muleskinner2 said:


> ...... and stupid laws that do more harm than good. *The state of California just banned the sale of new gas powered lawn mowers, and chain saws.* .......


That doesn't go into effect until 2024, and it shouldn't be perceived as a problem. 

It's not a bad thing for a ban like that to go into effect and everyone should be prepared for the same ban to go into effect across the entire country within the next 5 to 10 years. 

Anyone here who is old enough to remember and is a real homesteader will recall that there are other things that can and will re-take the place of gas-powered tools like that if people don't want/can't afford to use battery or electric powered tools. It will create a lot more employment and many new industries besides having an impact on the reason for putting such a ban into effect in the first place.

Who here on this *homesteading* forum doesn't know about and still occasionally if not frequently use good old dependable man- made and *man-powered hand tools* that people have been using for many, many centuries for the same purposes as those gas-powered machines prior to 100 years ago? 
Just sayin'........ don't worry about such a trivial ban that can actually do more good than harm in making people go back to making and using tools that are already long-time tried and true and dependable.

.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Pony said:


> ...... Life is not going to return to any semblance of the "normal" we used to think we knew. .....


There was never, ever anything "normal" about it. It has always been abnormal.

.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Paumon said:


> That doesn't go into effect until 2024, and it shouldn't be perceived as a problem.
> 
> It's not a bad thing for a ban like that to go into effect and everyone should be prepared for the same ban to go into effect across the entire country within the next 5 to 10 years.
> 
> Just sayin'........ don't worry about such a trivial ban that can actually do more good than harm in making people go back to making and using tools that are already long-time tried and true and dependable..


I "Perceive" anyone telling me what tools I can and cannot use on my farm as None Of Your Business. 
Go back to making our own tools? Lol, really?
Did you just troll this thread?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Paumon said:


> There was never, ever anything "normal" about it. It has always been abnormal.
> 
> .


There can be no abnormal without normal.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I just got a peak at the 2022 solution to supply chain delays, shortages and empty store shelves.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Pony said:


> There is absolutely nothing to back the currency that the parasites-in-charge are printing willy-nilly.


The new boss thinks differently.

Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) is a heterodox macroeconomic framework that says monetarily sovereign countries like the U.S., U.K., Japan, and Canada, which spend, tax, and borrow in a fiat currency that they fully control, are not operationally constrained by revenues when it comes to federal government spending.​​​Put simply, such governments do not rely on taxes or borrowing for spending since they can print as much as they need and are the monopoly issuers of the currency. Since their budgets aren’t like a regular household’s, their policies should not be shaped by fears of rising national debt.​







Modern Monetary Theory (MMT): Definition and Example


Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) is a macroeconomic theory that says government spending should not be restrained by fears of rising debt.




www.investopedia.com


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Paumon said:


> That doesn't go into effect until 2024, and it shouldn't be perceived as a problem.
> 
> It's not a bad thing for a ban like that to go into effect and everyone should be prepared for the same ban to go into effect across the entire country within the next 5 to 10 years.
> 
> ...


Again California leads the way into regression.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

You can blame it as much as you want on the March 2020 covid shutdown, but ultimately, more damage has been done in the last 9 months on purpose than in the previous decade by accident.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

With people choosing not to work or are fired does that cause the tax men to be short? Does no stuff on shelves leave state sales tax short? Does high gas prices cause people to drive less hence reducing gas tax income ? What about heating costs. Many will turn the heat down because of fixed income so less going to gas electric companies. Maybe there are many more people not on a fixed or limited income. I know i didnt get raises when prices went up. Even 2 worker households people are still mostly fixed income. This morning news is saying tax on gas is going up, to force buying electric cars.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Paumon said:


> That doesn't go into effect until 2024, and it shouldn't be perceived as a problem.
> 
> It's not a bad thing for a ban like that to go into effect and everyone should be prepared for the same ban to go into effect across the entire country within the next 5 to 10 years.
> 
> ...


The ban is on any small engine below 25 hp. It includes gas powered pumps as well as generators.
Some here rely on those to sustain their lives because our power grid is failing. Some need the gensets to provide power for medical devices. Newsome has not made exceptions for those folks. Bringing in these items from another state will be a lucrative adventure. Or bringing in the "parts" to fix them!!


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

GTX63 said:


> I "Perceive" anyone telling me what tools I can and cannot use on my farm as None Of Your Business.
> Go back to making our own tools? Lol, really?
> Did you just troll this thread?


No, I'm not trolling. People have been talking about this very thing all over internet for days and I've been following such conversations with interest.

Don't be so knee-jerk prickly and making rude accusations to someone who wasn't being rude or trolling, it's totally uncalled for. 

Who said anything about what tools you can or cannot use on your farm? That California thing isn't about what tools the people there can use, it's about what they won't be able to purchase or replace after 2024 in California. 

Now take that a few steps further across the nation. If gas-powered yard and garden tools like lawn mowers, chainsaws, trimmers, leaf blowers etc. etc. and whatever else such gas powered things, and their repair and replacement parts can no longer be acquired then people will have to resort to other alternatives. They'll have no other choice. Whether they like it or not. Whether they think it's anyone else's business or not. That goes for you too.

People have to use tools to get anything done. Nobody today can survive without tools. Individuals may not be making tools on their own but industrious businesses and their manufacturing employees will be and if people want to get a job done they'll be purchasing and using whatever tools are available.

.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Paumon said:


> If gas-powered yard and garden tools like lawn mowers, chainsaws, trimmers, leaf blowers etc. etc. and whatever else such gas powered things, and their repair and replacement parts can no longer be acquired then people will have to resort to other alternatives. They'll have no other choice. Whether they like it or not. Whether they think it's anyone else's business or not. That goes for you too.


You'll own nothing, but be happy


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Paumon said:


> No, I'm not trolling. People have been talking about this very thing all over internet for days and I've been following such conversations with interest.
> 
> Don't be so knee-jerk prickly and making rude accusations to someone who wasn't being rude or trolling, it's totally uncalled for.
> 
> ...


Wonder if there will be border check points to prevent people from bringing them in?


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

HDRider said:


> You'll own nothing, but be happy


Cool website - thanks for posting that link. 

.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

no really said:


> Wonder if there will be border check points to prevent people from bringing them in?


Something like a $100,000 penalty per infraction and loss of any commercial licenses and permits


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Paumon said:


> Cool website - thanks for posting that link.
> 
> .


I suspect you draw heavily from it.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

HDRider said:


> The new boss thinks differently.
> 
> Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) is a heterodox macroeconomic framework that says monetarily sovereign countries like the U.S., U.K., Japan, and Canada, which spend, tax, and borrow in a fiat currency that they fully control, are not operationally constrained by revenues when it comes to federal government spending.​​​Put simply, such governments do not rely on taxes or borrowing for spending since they can print as much as they need and are the monopoly issuers of the currency. Since their budgets aren’t like a regular household’s, their policies should not be shaped by fears of rising national debt.​
> 
> ...


Does that not strike you as so much smoke and mirrors?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Pony said:


> Does that not strike you as so much smoke and mirrors?


It strikes me as an absurd rationalization of irresponsible behavior.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Something like a $100,000 penalty per infraction and loss of any commercial licenses and permits


That race to the bottom would be fast.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

no really said:


> That race to the bottom would be fast.


My wife and I were watching some show about early English landed gentry. I asked how they kept their lawns so neat back in the 17th century. She looked it up and they had peasants on hands and knees with shears clipping grass.

Might not be long until we see that again.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

HDRider said:


> My wife and I were watching some show about early English landed gentry. I asked how they kept their lawns so neat back in the 17th century. She looked it up and they had peasants on hands and knees with shears clipping grass.
> 
> Might not be long until we see that again.


Might be the plan for all those illegals, need some serfs to take care of the elites.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

no really said:


> Might be the plan for all those illegals, need some serfs to take care of the elites.


Just thinking that..or you rip up the grass.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> My wife and I were watching some show about early English landed gentry. I asked how they kept their lawns so neat back in the 17th century. She looked it up and they had peasants on hands and knees with shears clipping grass.
> 
> Might not be long until we see that again.


The grass clippers will be the lucky ones.

The rest of us will get to play the Squid Game.


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

HDRider said:


> I suspect you draw heavily from it.


Nope, it's new to me regardless of your expectations of me. I've never seen it before, but it looks interesting after a brief skim through it. I'll check it out more thoroughly later. Thanks again.

.


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

HDRider said:


> My wife and I were watching some show about early English landed gentry. I asked how they kept their lawns so neat back in the 17th century. She looked it up and they had peasants on hands and knees with shears clipping grass.
> 
> *Might not be long until we see that again.*


I'm thinking more like it might not be long before lawns become an obsolete thing of the past.

.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Paumon said:


> I'm thinking more like it might not be long before lawns become an obsolete thing of the past.
> 
> .


Only the oligarchy have it, plenty of serfs to take care of it.


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Paumon said:


> I'm thinking more like it might not be long before lawns become an obsolete thing of the past.
> 
> .


Many yards in water shortage neighborhood has that now. Cactus flowerbeds and stones..


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

no really said:


> Only the oligarchy have it, plenty of serfs to take care of it.


Serfs in service to parasites...


----------



## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

A woman I know has fruit trees in the front yard. She has herbs and some veggies in the front flower beds against the house. Back yard is mostly garden with a few hens. The lot is on old pasture land and has a good bit of King Ranch Bluestem that volunteers regularly. That sends up seed heads overnight when the conditions are right. She has a running battle with city code enforcement. A woman I dated in the same general area had the same problem with them over the KR in her yard.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Paumon said:


> I'm thinking more like it might not be long before lawns become an obsolete thing of the past.
> 
> .


They help keep our homes cool in the summer. Edison says we should grow our lawns to conserve power. Water agency says we should grow dirt to save water. Illegal aliens here use billions if gallons of potable water each year. Hundreds of thousands of cars driven by them are on the roads. If the end game is to reduce waste and pollution, why not start with those that shouldn't be here in the first place?
With climate change in mind, what is the Co2 tipping point? How much is too much. Plants love Co2 and will thrive as it increases, so is that bad?


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

JeffreyD said:


> Water agency says we should grow dirt to save water.


Exactly. I don’t water my lawn. My lawn waters my well.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Paumon said:


> I'm thinking more like it might not be long before lawns become an obsolete thing of the past.
> 
> .


Can you expand on that? How long are you thinking, and why would they become obsolete?


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

HDRider said:


> My wife and I were watching some show about early English landed gentry. I asked how they kept their lawns so neat back in the 17th century. She looked it up and they had peasants on hands and knees with shears clipping grass.
> 
> Might not be long until we see that again.


Buy some sheep...


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Paumon said:


> It's not a bad thing for a ban like that to go into effect and everyone should be prepared for the same ban to go into effect across the entire country within the next 5 to 10 years.


Come and take them. I'll be waiting.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Paumon said:


> Now take that a few steps further across the nation. If gas-powered yard and garden tools like lawn mowers, chainsaws, trimmers, leaf blowers etc. etc. and whatever else such gas powered things, and their repair and replacement parts can no longer be acquired then people will have to resort to other alternatives. They'll have no other choice. Whether they like it or not. Whether they think it's anyone else's business or not. That goes for you too.


Sounds like a huge black market opening up to me. Every time a government has banned something, a black market industry appeared to provide it. Honda would make millions of repair kits, and guys like me would be smuggling them into the country. Sounds like a great retirement gig for me.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

muleskinner2 said:


> Sounds like a huge black market opening up to me. Every time a government has banned something, a black market industry appeared to provide it. Honda would make millions of repair kits, and guys like me would be smuggling them into the country. Sounds like a great retirement gig for me.


The rv market here in California is huge, can't be sold with a genset. Newsome says a battery powered inverter system works fine. Ha, right. 
But, he is an idiot too!


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

JeffreyD said:


> The rv market here in California is huge, can't be sold with a genset. Newsome says a battery powered inverter system works fine. Ha, right.
> But, he is an idiot too!


They can't keep the power grid up and running, and now they want to charge more batteries. These people are a very special kind of stupid.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> The grass clippers will be the lucky ones.
> 
> The rest of us will get to play the Squid Game.


Do you think the real Squid games will be syndicated, or maybe an entire Squid Game channel 24x7? 

It is going to take a while to go through 8 billion people. I assume it will be a country by country championship leading to a series of final global rounds.

My money is on the Native Australians


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Do you think the real Squid games will be syndicated, or maybe an entire Squid Game channel 24x7?
> 
> It is going to take a while to go through 8 billion people. I assume it will be a country by country championship leading to a series of final global rounds.
> 
> My money is on the Native Australians


Nah. The elite class whose enjoyment it will be staged for will not be so large as to necessitate televising it.

It will be such a small class that even those who carried their water, and did the heavy social-media lifting to get gas engines and lawns banned, will end up playing the game rather than watching it.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Paumon said:


> Nope, it's new to me regardless of your expectations of me. I've never seen it before, but it looks interesting after a brief skim through it. I'll check it out more thoroughly later. Thanks again.
> 
> .


It should confirm most of your base beliefs. 

You have been fed the Canadian version without even knowing. Here in the States Brandon was too stupid to even change the tag line. Build Back Better I cannot speak to how the Blackface has marketed it.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

TripleD said:


> Buy some sheep...


They just cannot get that uniform cut most of us want. They are kind of picky eaters. You have to work behind them with the shears, kneeling in sheep poop, like the UBI candidates do.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Nah. The elite class whose enjoyment it will be staged for will not be so large as to necessitate televising it.
> 
> It will be such a small class that even those who carried their water, and did the heavy social-media lifting to get gas engines and lawns banned, will end up playing the game rather than watching it.


Your saying it will be watched mostly live maybe streamed. That makes sense. That way you can watch it maybe even offline on most phones and tablets. Instead of YouTube it will be SquidTube, or maybe a series on YouTube once all the conservatives quit speaking their minds.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

no really said:


> Might be the plan for all those illegals, need some serfs to take care of the elites.


When in our history were the elite democrats importing cheap labor from other countries? I should ask Foogle.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

muleskinner2 said:


> They can't keep the power grid up and running, and now they want to charge more batteries. These people are a very special kind of stupid.


Yup, the stupidity in this state is astounding. Arizona is slightly better. I have a condo there and the majority of our business is there too. I'd like to spend more time there.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

HDRider said:


> They just cannot get that uniform cut most of us want. They are kind of picky eaters. You have to work behind them with the shears, kneeling in sheep poop, like the UBI candidates do.


I've used replacement heifers and a bush hog for years. I sold the cows in June.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Paumon said:


> If gas-powered yard and garden tools like lawn mowers, chainsaws, trimmers, leaf blowers etc. etc. and whatever else such gas powered things, and their repair and replacement parts can no longer be acquired then people will have to resort to other alternatives. They'll have no other choice. Whether they like it or not. Whether they think it's anyone else's business or not. That goes for you too.


Odd how it irks some folks to hear others talk about choice, freedoms, and myob, lol.
Here is the short answer, it won't happen.

Substitute "garden tools" with the words alcohol or marijuana or firearms.
I'll always have a choice. 
I apologize if my response gives you the gooseflesh, but before Americans go back to the forge and anvil in mass, they'll expand the black market. That is what people do, and Americans are wonders at flipping the bird.
If you believe society as a whole will follow the same path as they are told, you would be wrong again. I do agree with you however, that we will seek alternatives, they just won't have 19th century written all over them.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

TripleD said:


> I've used replacement heifers and a bush hog for years. I sold the cows in June.


I'm not looking for yard of the month award 😂...


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Odd how it irks some folks to hear others talk about choice, freedoms, and myob, lol.
> Here is the short answer, it won't happen.
> 
> Substitute "garden tools" with the words alcohol or marijuana or firearms.
> ...


You’ll have to forgive her. With such a charismatic leader, who could be expected to resist the directives of her betters?


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I don't have a yard. I have a wood lot, and a pasture. It won't stop with small hand tools, tractors and irrigation pumps will be next. Large modern tractors cost a quarter of a million dollars. What will an electric tractor cost?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> I don't have a yard. I have a wood lot, and a pasture. It won't stop with small hand tools, tractors and irrigation pumps will be next. Large modern tractors cost a quarter of a million dollars. What will an electric tractor cost?


I don't think they make big ones yet

Diesel - *Base Price: $41,399 USD*

Electric - *Base Price: $26,799 USD*





__





e25 Compact Electric Tractor — Solectrac


The 25 HP diesel-equivalent e25 is a versatile, 4WD utility vehicle for vineyards, greenhouses, golf courses and municipalities.




solectrac.com


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

whiterock said:


> A woman I know has fruit trees in the front yard. She has herbs and some veggies in the front flower beds against the house. Back yard is mostly garden with a few hens. The lot is on old pasture land and has a good bit of King Ranch Bluestem that volunteers regularly. That sends up seed heads overnight when the conditions are right. She has a running battle with city code enforcement. A woman I dated in the same general area had the same problem with them over the KR in her yard.


Maybe she could tell the nosy code enforcement pencil necks that _Bothriochloa ischaemum_ is a protected species...


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Can you expand on that? How long are you thinking, and why would they become obsolete?


Because we are running out of water


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

> Paumon said:
> I'm thinking more like it might not be long before lawns become an obsolete thing of the past.





GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Can you expand on that? How long are you thinking, and why would they become obsolete?


Sorry I missed your post earlier. Let me ask you a couple of questions instead. 

I see that Forcast just gave you one good answer about running out of fresh water. That is a real thing that IS already happening ...... do you disbelieve and dispute what Forcast said? 

Can you not think of any other reasons why lawns are going to become obsolete?

BTW - I think the satirical picture you posted of the person in a pink costume is funny.

.

.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

HDRider said:


> They just cannot get that uniform cut most of us want. They are kind of picky eaters. You have to work behind them with the shears, kneeling in sheep poop, like the UBI candidates do.


My hubs is a whiz with a European scythe. He can mow an acre a day.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Paumon said:


> Sorry I missed your post earlier. Let me ask you a couple of questions instead.
> 
> I see that Forcast just gave you one good answer about running out of fresh water. That is a real thing that IS already happening ...... do you disbelieve and dispute what Forcast said?
> 
> ...


Water in Saudi Arabia: Desalination, Wastewater, and Privatization









Water in Saudi Arabia: Desalination, Wastewater, and Privatization - USSBC


Importance & Demand Saudi Arabia is the largest country in the world without running surface water and has one of the highest rates of water consumption in the world. Providing […]




ussaudi.org





Saudi Arabia is the largest country in the world without running surface water and has one of the highest rates of water consumption in the world. Providing new sources of potable water for the Kingdom’s growing population and expanding industry has long been a matter of national importance to the desert country. With daily water consumption at 263 liters per capita (in 2019), total water consumption has exceeded 8 million cubic meters per day (m3/d) and is forecast to reach 12.3 million m3/d by 2040. The country has relied on desalinated water since the 1950s and has since come to be the leading desalinated water producer in the world, with 7.6 million m3 produced daily accounting for 22 percent of global production. As of 2019, 60 percent of the country’s water comes from desalination, with nonrenewable groundwater (less than 40 percent) taking most of the remaining share and reclaimed wastewater surface water and surface water supplies supplying the rest. The Kingdom’s overall water demand stands at an estimated 25.29 billion m3 annually but is projected to grow slightly to 25.79 billion m3 by 2025.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Forcast said:


> Because we are running out of water


We do not lose or gain water. It is fixed.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Paumon said:


> Sorry I missed your post earlier. Let me ask you a couple of questions instead.


How about ‘no’? The polite course in discussion is to answer questions asked about your own posits, and _then_ ask following questions of your own.



Paumon said:


> I see that Forcast just gave you one good answer about running out of fresh water.


The vast, vast majority of lawns are not actively watered, including mine. So, unless your _answer_ is that large swaths of the landmass are going to turn into desert “soon”, then a lack of fresh water is not going to cause lawns to go away any time soon.



Paumon said:


> Can you not think of any other reasons why lawns are going to become obsolete?


I asked you that. Why do _you_ think lawns are going to become obsolete soon?


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> We do not lose or gain water. It is fixed.


…it is re-distributed, so to speak, eh?


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Forcast said:


> Because we are running out of water


Who is we?
Where are the people in your area shipping all their water? And why?


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

GTX63 said:


> Odd how it irks some folks to hear others talk about choice, freedoms, and myob, lol.
> Here is the short answer, it won't happen.
> 
> Substitute "garden tools" with the words alcohol or marijuana or firearms.
> ...


Your responses don't give me gooseflesh, it merely makes me wonder if you are okay and healthy and wondering whether or not you may have been experiencing that your comprehension skills are failing. I've been seeing a lot of covid related brain fog and failure of critical thinking skills in people in the past few months and it appears you're having a hard time comprehending my posts. 

Are you purposely putting words I never said into my mouth, or are you sincerely not able to grasp the things that I say? 

I never said anything about Americans going en masse to forge and anvil or that alternatives will have 19th century written all over them. 

I said that the need for new alternatives will create more employment opportunities and more new American industries. Is that not a desirable thing?

But I'll put this to you with regard to your comments about black market gas powered tools and parts and other banned toys that use gas for power. It might work well for people who live isolated out in the boonies far enough away from where anybody else can hear them and smell them. But what use can banned gas powered tools/toys be put to by people who live on postage stamp properties side by side with neighbours in highly populated urban areas where they can't sneeze without all other neighbours hearing it? It's urbanites like that who presently use those tools more than the rural people with bigger properties and more legitimate reasons for using those kinds of tools. There won't be black market sales for banned gas powered tools to be had with urbanites, who coincidentally happen to represent the largest percentage of American population.

Also there's the matter of where the gas, if any, is going to come from when gas gets phased out entirely, which is really what the whole objective is. Start small with weaning people off little gas powered tools like lawn mowers and chainsaws and gradually work up to other bigger gas powered things.

.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Who is we?
> Where are the people in your area shipping all their water? And why?


Plenty here. We _average _about 66 inches of rain a year. This year is shaping up to be way above average.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Paumon said:


> I said that the need for new alternatives will create more employment opportunities and more new American industries. Is that not a desirable thing?


Not when the "need" is artificially created through draconian legislation.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Paumon said:


> Also there's the matter of where the gas, if any, is going to come from when gas gets phased out entirely,


Ethanol.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

I need to look at opening a lawn and garden equipment retail store just across the CA border. I think it will do quite the business in a couple of years. That and open up a small engine repair shop in a few spots in CA. I may get to retire again.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Paumon said:


> Start small with weaning people off little gas powered tools like lawn mowers and chainsaws and gradually work up to other bigger gas powered things.


You have lots of aspirations of deciding how your neighbors get to live their lives, don’t you?

Is it like a hobby, or something?


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

HDRider said:


> We do not lose or gain water. It is fixed.


Ground water is being move for other areas. As in ground water being diverted.so some areas have none. Lots of people.have to have tanks filled. Reservations for one have no running water from our government. 
I would like to see musk developed a flood water relocation system all over the world. Its flooding in Italy the auto switch funnels pre flood water to a drought area. Heck with mars fix the earth. We caused the problem. While im here. If the usa thinks that removing humans or doing away with gas diesel propane natural gas is going fix shht we are really stupid. China just added a bunch of coal fired power plants this week. Other countries are what we cant control Greta can't. 
Looks like Cal will offer landscape companies a rebate on equipment. So we just hire the rebated grass cutter. Didnt see big equipment on the list do guess backhoe is cool.


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> How about ‘no’? The polite course in discussion is to answer questions asked about your own posits, and _then_ ask following questions of your own.
> 
> 
> The vast, vast majority of lawns are not actively watered, including mine. So, unless your _answer_ is that large swaths of the landmass are going to turn into desert “soon”, then a lack of fresh water is not going to cause lawns to go away any time soon.
> ...


Okie dokie then, fair enough. The answer is indeed severe drought conditions and pestilence over large swaths of the landmass of all of North America within the next 10 years. Is that soon enough? It won't be only lawns that will become obsolete. I say 10 years with confidence because all of the climate observations and predictions I've made in the past 14 years have already come to pass within the time frames that I've predicted they would happen, or sooner.

The question asked in this thread is how close is total social and economic collapse. I think the answer to that is that it depends on how close environmental collapse is. 

In the Homesteading Questions forum Manfred recently posted the question asking people how they feel climate change may have effected them to date. Some people who responded feel they haven't been impacted in their locations yet, and some have been impacted in other locations to varying degrees. This following quote was my response:



Paumon said:


> *How has climate change effected me?*
> 
> I did lose a number of plants and trees anyway in spite of my efforts. But now it's certainly impacting my area in all the ways I said I anticipated it would when we had discussions about it here on HT 14 years ago. What had been predicted had not yet happened 14 years ago but has all been happening now and steadily getting more pronounced with each passing year.
> 
> ...


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> You have lots of aspirations of deciding how your neighbors get to live their lives, don’t you?
> 
> Is it like a hobby, or something?


You'd be wrong about that. I don't have any aspirations about how any of my neighbours / countrymen get to live, nor about how people in other countries get to live. I no longer care about other people or how they live. I'm really disillusioned and disappointed with all of humanity these days and would be content if a good 80% of the global population would just disappear off the face of the earth. And that's the truth.

.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Paumon said:


> You'd be wrong about that. I don't have any aspirations about how any of my neighbours / countrymen get to live, nor about how people in other countries get to live. I no longer care about other people or how they live. I'm really disillusioned and disappointed with all of humanity these days and would be content if a good 80% of the global population would just disappear off the face of the earth. And that's the truth.
> 
> .


That statement surprises me not at all. Some things just don't change, they just get relabeled.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Paumon said:


> You'd be wrong about that. I don't have any aspirations about how any of my neighbours / countrymen get to live, nor about how people in other countries get to live. I no longer care about other people or how they live. I'm really disillusioned and disappointed with all of humanity these days and would be content if a good 80% of the global population would just disappear off the face of the earth. And that's the truth.
> 
> .


You just shoot yourself then. If you you do you wouldn't get to see that 80 percent die of rate!!!


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> You have lots of aspirations of deciding how your neighbors get to live their lives, don’t you?
> 
> Is it like a hobby, or something?


I'd say more like an obsession.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

We currently have some very powerful and wealthy people who also seem to think the world would be better off with about 20% of the current population.
I would agree there seems to be too many people, but nobody wants to volunteer to reduce the numbers.

There are also groups that want to live their lives and be left alone to enjoy their freedom. These groups have names that revolve around similar themes.

There is a second group that also wants to live their lives and be left alone to enjoy their freedom. The difference is that they prefer to decide how others should live and what freedoms they should have.
The one thing we share in common is that we both think we know what is best for GTX63.


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

GTX63 said:


> We currently have some very powerful and wealthy people who also seem to think the world would be better off with about 20% of the current population.
> 
> I would agree there seems to be too many people, but *nobody wants to volunteer to reduce the numbers*.
> 
> ...


I agree with your above statements but with at least one exception about volunteers. Today there are more and more educated and independent minded women around the world who are volunteering to help gradually reduce national and global population numbers by decreasing the number of children that women give birth to, or better yet, by not giving birth to any children at all. 

Do you suppose it would be correct to assume that the people who prefer to be the ones who decide how others should live and what freedoms they can have are the same people that prefer that women should not be allowed to have autonomy over their own bodies and their own personal choices about child production?

.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Personally volunteer. The key word is personally.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Paumon said:


> Do you suppose it would be correct to assume that the people who prefer to be the ones who decide how others should live and what freedoms they can have are the same people that prefer that women should not be allowed to have autonomy over their own bodies and their own personal choices about child production?.


No. It is a lazy thought process, or convenient, to believe preventing murder is intruding on one's personal rights.


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

GTX63 said:


> No. It is a lazy thought process, or convenient, to believe preventing murder is intruding on one's personal rights.


So no fetal murder allowed. And no suicide allowed either, right ??? because if people were volunteering their own lives in order to reduce population then that would be suicide. And suicide is considered a sin and illegal by the very same people who don't want to allow fetal murder. 

But aside from no fetal murders and no suicides being allowed it's still okay then for women to decide to not get pregnant and to not produce offspring, right? 

.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Paumon said:


> So no fetal murder allowed. And no suicide allowed either, right ??? because if people were volunteering their own lives in order to reduce population then that would be suicide. And suicide is considered a sin and illegal by the very same people who don't want to allow fetal murder.
> 
> But aside from no fetal murders and no suicides being allowed it's still okay then for women to decide to not get pregnant and to not produce offspring, right?
> 
> .


Generalizations about people is a pretty common method for a weak or uniformed position. So is drifting onto false equivalencies.
One doesn't have to believe in sin or gods to know that slicing off the limbs of a living being is wrong. Stick around and you might meet a few here.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

It really demonstrates the fallacy and intellectual laziness of identity politics and group think. Not everyone fits conveniently in the box some want to put them in. For example, some don't believe in "sin" and still have a moral objection to abortion...yet, at the same time, feel that suicide is a person's own choice to make. So, no. It's not safe to assume anything about anyone.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Paumon said:


> …I no longer care about other people or how they live. I'm really disillusioned and disappointed with all of humanity these days and would be content if a good 80% of the global population would just disappear off the face of the earth. And that's the truth.


That is easily the most disturbing thing I’ve seen posted on here. You want 6 billion people to die just because you don’t feel good about the way the earth is being used.

Your “solution” is clear-cut nihilism, and the fact that you’re one of the “worthy” shows your narcissism.

Nihilism + Narcissism = Psychopathy


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Paumon said:


> Okie dokie then, fair enough. The answer is indeed severe drought conditions and pestilence over large swaths of the landmass of all of North America within the next 10 years. Is that soon enough? It won't be only lawns that will become obsolete. I say 10 years with confidence because all of the climate observations and predictions I've made in the past 14 years have already come to pass within the time frames that I've predicted they would happen, or sooner.
> 
> The question asked in this thread is how close is total social and economic collapse. I think the answer to that is that it depends on how close environmental collapse is.
> 
> In the Homesteading Questions forum Manfred recently posted the question asking people how they feel climate change may have effected them to date. Some people who responded feel they haven't been impacted in their locations yet, and some have been impacted in other locations to varying degrees. This following quote was my response:


Can you show us evidence of any of those predictions? The only reliable aspect of climate “science” we’ve learned over the last 40 years is that the predictions of the experts have always been wrong. If they weren’t, we’d have entered an ice age in the 90s, and become a super hot desert world in the 2000s. Is Miami underwater yet? When did the last polar bear die?

Seriously, if you’re the ONE great mind in all of climatology that is nailing the predictions, you need to get your word out there. The degrees scientists we have are all falling flat on their faces.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> …it is re-distributed, so to speak, eh?


Breath of Caesar?


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> That is easily the most disturbing thing I’ve seen posted on here. You want 6 billion people to die just because you don’t feel good about the way the earth is being used.
> 
> Your “solution” is clear-cut nihilism, and the fact that you’re one of the “worthy” shows your narcissism.
> 
> Nihilism + Narcissism = Psychopathy


Maybe s/he/it is a sock puppet for Gates.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Paumon said:


> You'd be wrong about that. I don't have any aspirations about how any of my neighbours / countrymen get to live, nor about how people in other countries get to live. I no longer care about other people or how they live. I'm really disillusioned and disappointed with all of humanity these days and would be content if a good 80% of the global population would just disappear off the face of the earth. And that's the truth.
> 
> .


So, as other self-centered nihilists have stated, you want 80% of the population to die because you're "disillusioned and disappointed with all of humanity," i.e., they don't live the way you think they should.

IOW, you agree with Gates' agenda. I would not bank on his sparing you because you think he's correct.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Pony said:


> …I would not bank on his sparing you because you think he's correct.


Nope. Once the water has been carried, water-bearers are an unnecessary luxury and drain on resources, and must be _liquidated_.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Some ways other than force will have to be carried out. Who is this new force going to be compromised of?!?! They can cut off utilities and most would comply. In all seriousness some people have been packing up and stacking up for generations...


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> That is easily the *most disturbing* thing I’ve seen posted on here.* You want 6 billion people to die *just because you don’t feel good about the way the earth is being used.
> 
> Your “solution” is clear-cut nihilism, and the fact that you’re one of the “worthy” shows your narcissism.
> 
> Nihilism + Narcissism = Psychopathy


Yeah, yeah, I know all about it, you've already been personally attacking and telling me for YEARS that you believe I'm a psychopath, an awful, horrible, terrible, most disturbing monster to assault your delicate sensitivities. 

Yawn. Double Yawn. So predictable. Kind of OCD-ish and spectrum-ish. You know you're really weird, right? Never happy unless you have something to gripe about and somebody to accuse. 

So what else is new with you in the past 7 or 8 years that I've been gone? Are you going through male menopause now or are you done with it? Lost your grip on reality in your old age?

Pay closer attention to what you read Monsieur Monkey and quit flinging the monkey crap. There is nowhere that I've ever said that I want 6 billion people to die. Death is YOUR desired interpretation of what I actually, literally said.

.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Paumon said:


> Your responses don't give me gooseflesh, it merely makes me wonder if you are okay and healthy and wondering whether or not you may have been experiencing that your comprehension skills are failing. I've been seeing a lot of covid related brain fog and failure of critical thinking skills in people in the past few months and it appears you're having a hard time comprehending my posts.
> 
> Are you purposely putting words I never said into my mouth, or are you sincerely not able to grasp the things that I say?
> 
> ...


And generators that supply power to those who don't have it due to the grid failing or water pumps that move life sustaining potable water to those that need it. Water is necessary for life isn't it? Power? Stupid move on the part of even more useless politicians.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Paumon said:


> I agree with your above statements but with at least one exception about volunteers. Today there are more and more educated and independent minded women around the world who are volunteering to help gradually reduce national and global population numbers by decreasing the number of children that women give birth to, or better yet, by not giving birth to any children at all.
> 
> Do you suppose it would be correct to assume that the people who prefer to be the ones who decide how others should live and what freedoms they can have are the same people that prefer that women should not be allowed to have autonomy over their own bodies and their own personal choices about child production?
> 
> .


My body, my choice right? How about the choice of what we put into our bodies? Doesn't that apply too?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Paumon said:


> Pay closer attention to what you read Monsieur Monkey and quit flinging the monkey crap. There is nowhere that I've ever said that I want 6 billion people to die. Death is YOUR desired interpretation of what I actually, literally said.


You are right. We should pay closer attention to what you said.
I'm not sure who would desire someone else to wish death on others, but eh, what else are you going to say now that you said it? And that's the truth, lol.
Is it Monkey see Monkey say?


_"I'm really disillusioned and disappointed with all of humanity these days and would be content if a good 80% of the global population would just disappear off the face of the earth. And that's the truth."_


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Paumon said:


> Yeah, yeah, I know all about it, you've already been personally attacking and telling me for YEARS that you believe I'm a psychopath, an awful, horrible, terrible, most disturbing monster to assault your delicate sensitivities.
> 
> Yawn. Double Yawn. So predictable. Kind of OCD-ish and spectrum-ish. You know you're really weird, right? Never happy unless you have something to gripe about and somebody to accuse.
> 
> ...


jambalaya crawfish pie me oh my oh


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Paumon said:


> I'm really disillusioned and disappointed with all of humanity these days and would be content if a good 80% of the global population would just disappear off the face of the earth. And that's the truth.





Paumon said:


> There is nowhere that I've ever said that I want 6 billion people to die.


You are a liar


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Paumon said:


> Yeah, yeah, I know all about it, you've already been personally attacking and telling me for YEARS that you believe I'm a psychopath, an awful, horrible, terrible, most disturbing monster to assault your delicate sensitivities.
> 
> Yawn. Double Yawn. So predictable. Kind of OCD-ish and spectrum-ish. You know you're really weird, right? Never happy unless you have something to gripe about and somebody to accuse.
> 
> ...


Others pointed out that you did say exactly what you claim you didn’t say, so I won’t, but, can you find a quote of me calling you psychotic previously? 

“Monster”, “awful”, “terrible” or “horrible” will do as well. To be honest, I don’t remember you, so you’re not even registering with me beyond your psychotic/sociopathic statement that you’d be happy if 6 billion people died.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Paumon said:


> But aside from no fetal murders and no suicides being allowed it's still okay then for women to decide to not get pregnant and to not produce offspring, right?


I am not against voluntary sterilization, voluntary suicide, all forms of pre-conception birth control and any other form of population control that is voluntary and doesn't directly affect the life of another.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Paumon said:


> Yeah, yeah, I know all about it, you've already been personally attacking and telling me for YEARS that you believe I'm a psychopath, an awful, horrible, terrible, most disturbing monster to assault your delicate sensitivities.
> 
> Yawn. Double Yawn. So predictable. Kind of OCD-ish and spectrum-ish. You know you're really weird, right? Never happy unless you have something to gripe about and somebody to accuse.
> 
> ...


You complain about being "personally attacked," and then launch into full ad hominem mode. 

SMH

Folks, maybe we should just ignore the troll.


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Looks like across the board 1/3 of people are not getting vaccinated
Police fire airlines large companies. NY 17,600 police on unpayed leave for non compliance for vaccine


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

GTX63 said:


> *You are right. We should pay closer attention to what you said.*
> I'm not sure who would desire someone else to wish death on others, but eh, what else are you going to say now that you said it? And that's the truth, lol.
> Is it Monkey see Monkey say?
> 
> ...


Thank you.   

I appreciate it that you're getting it that I'm a stickler about literal words and statements that actually get used. I think if more people would pay strict attention to what others actually say instead of looking at words and statements and interpreting them differently through their wishful thinking, imagination and smoke and mirrors of their own devising there would be a lot less misunderstandings and divisiveness between people in this world. I think if more people continue to not pay close attention to what others are _really_ saying and only hear what they want to hear then that lack of honest communication is a contributor to social collapse. 

.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Paumon said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I appreciate it that you're getting it that I'm a stickler about literal words and statements that actually get used. I think if more people would pay strict attention to what others actually say instead of looking at words and statements and interpreting them differently through their wishful thinking, imagination and smoke and mirrors of their own devising there would be a lot less misunderstandings and divisiveness between people in this world. I think if more people continue to not pay close attention to what others are _really_ saying and only hear what they want to hear then that lack of honest communication is a contributor to social collapse.
> 
> .


Ok, punkin, how about you tell us what you _really_ said?

Here’s your direct quote, so you have it handy for twistin’ and stitchin’:



> …I no longer care about other people or how they live. I'm really disillusioned and disappointed with all of humanity these days and would be content if a good 80% of the global population would just disappear off the face of the earth. And that's the truth.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Paumon said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I appreciate it that you're getting it that I'm a stickler about literal words and statements that actually get used. I think if more people would pay strict attention to what others actually say instead of looking at words and statements and interpreting them differently through their wishful thinking, imagination and smoke and mirrors of their own devising there would be a lot less misunderstandings and divisiveness between people in this world. I think if more people continue to not pay close attention to what others are _really_ saying and only hear what they want to hear then that lack of honest communication is a contributor to social collapse.
> 
> .


That is your defense? Are we not allowed to do math in your world?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Paumon said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I appreciate it that you're getting it that I'm a stickler about literal words and statements that actually get used. .


The kind words are most welcome.
People can be so knee jerk about what they read.
Oh, one last question- are you also a stickler about literal words and statements that you make?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> Oh, one last question- are you also a stickler about literal words and statements that you make?


@Paumon as your attorney, I advise you do not answer that question. We are done here!


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I thought I was out of line for saying shoot yourself first 😂. ? Oh well he/she hasn't done that...


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Paumon said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I appreciate it that you're getting it that* I'm a stickler about literal words and statements that actually get used.* I think if more people would pay strict attention to what others actually say instead of looking at words and statements and interpreting them differently through their wishful thinking, imagination and smoke and mirrors of their own devising there would be a lot less misunderstandings and divisiveness between people in this world. I think if more people continue to not pay close attention to what others are _really_ saying and only hear what they want to hear then that lack of honest communication is a contributor to social collapse.
> 
> .





Paumon said:


> You'd be wrong about that. I don't have any aspirations about how any of my neighbours / countrymen get to live, nor about how people in other countries get to live. I no longer care about other people or how they live. * I'm really disillusioned and disappointed with all of humanity these days and would be content if a good 80% of the global population would just disappear off the face of the earth. And that's the truth.*
> 
> .


 Seems to me that we are, indeed, paying "strict attention" to what you have said. 

Once you post something on the internet, it is forever.

Your posts somehow remind me of a guy who was on Dr Phil yesterday...


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Understanding words is important. Some people are apparently thinking that the word _disappear_ means the same thing as the word _die_, but they don't mean the same thing at all, they don't even mean anything similar to each other_._ 

If 6 billion people suddenly _disappear_ off the face of the earth it just means they disappear with no trace left of them on earth. Poof, they're gone, as if they had never existed. 

If 6 billion people suddenly _die_ they don't disappear. There is a trace of them, their decomposing corporeal remains are still on earth. As a matter of fact, if 6 billion people all suddenly died then the 2 billion living people remaining would all die very soon afterwards too because of being overwhelmed by 6 billion decomposing bodies that they don't have the resources to dispose of for their own health and safety. Dead bodies are a biological hazard that can kill living people and poison the environment with hazardous gasses if the dead bodies don't get disposed of quickly.

So why would anyone wish for 6 billion people to suddenly die? It wouldn't make sense unless that person was hoping it would cause all 8 billion people to be dead and to poison all other living things in their environment . That would be stupid.

....................................................................................................................................................

Paying attention to and understanding the real meanings of words is important. Let me tell you a story about something that happened a few years ago here on this forum because of misunderstandings about a word that resulted in somebody getting banned. 

There was a conversation here about the geography and environment of Canada. Two forum members got into a disagreement over the word flatlander because one of them insisted that it was a derogatory word that was not used in Canada, while the other member tried to explain what the word meant in Canada and that yes, it is commonly used by a lot of prairie people and other Canadians that live elsewhere in Canada, and that nobody used it as a derogatory word intended to insult anyone. It just is what it is. 

That member tried to explain that in Canada the word flatlander is a commonly used, self-explanatory word that means businesses or people that are on the prairies, not in mountainous regions. There are businesses on the prairies that use the word flatlander as part of their business names. In Manitoba there was a Flatlander Race Track, a Flatlander Medical Clinic, a Flatlander baseball team and a Flatlander Auto Dealer. In Saskatchewan there was a Flatlander Community Newspaper, a Flantlander Fair Grounds and a Flatlander Campsite and Recreational grounds. In Alberta there was a Flatlander Farmer's Market, a highschool's Flatlander Hockey Team and a stone mason and landscaping business called Flatlander Stone Works.

But it turned out that apparently in the USA the word flatlander is used by some people in the American Appalachian regions as a derogatory word in reference to isolated people who are inbred, are usually mentally handicapped, not educated, and don't mix well with the rest of society because they have no social skills and are looked down on with disdain. It also turned out that it was used in most American mountainous regions as a derogatory word used to describe anyone "not from these parts" who lived at lower, flatter elevations and is looked down on with disdain by mountain people.

So there were two different and opposite meanings of one word as it's used in two nations but the forum member who was trying to explain what flatlander means in Canada and that it's a common, non-bigoted, non-derogatory, self-explanatory word got banned from the forum for explaining a common standard English word because in America it's considered a bad word. 

Now if more people would make an effort to understand the real meanings of English words and not twist and change the actual meanings of words to use them for stupid PC or non-PC reasons to deliberately cause more divisivness there would be a lot less misunderstandings and more friendliness between people.

.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Paumon said:


> Understanding words is important. Some people are apparently thinking that the word _disappear_ means the same thing as the word _die_, but they don't mean the same thing at all, they don't even mean anything similar to each other_._
> 
> If 6 billion people suddenly _disappear_ off the face of the earth it just means they disappear with no trace left of them on earth. Poof, they're gone, as if they had never existed.
> 
> ...


SMH

Verbosity doesn't fix what you said.


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

GTX63 said:


> The kind words are most welcome.
> People can be so knee jerk about what they read.
> Oh, one last question- are you also a stickler about literal words and statements that you make?


I try to be literal about my words and statements and if I make a mistake according to other people I appreciate it if other people will explain my mistake from their own perspective and set me straight without making an insulting attack out of it. I try to only bite back if other people bite me first and if they bite me too often then I'll ignore them after that and don't answer to any more direct questions or negative responses. It won't stop me from posting though.

I really miss Bearfootfarm. He was one of the most literal and most polite, knowledgeable, intelligent and impartial, non-divisive people I've ever met on internet. Nobody else on HT forum has ever been able to hold a candle to BFF. This forum isn't the same without him here anymore.

.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

6 billion die just look at the nitrogen. "Buzzards got to eat same as worms" Somebody is in need of therepy ...


----------



## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Paumon said:


> Understanding words is important. Some people are apparently thinking that the word _disappear_ means the same thing as the word _die_, but they don't mean the same thing at all, they don't even mean anything similar to each other_._
> 
> If 6 billion people suddenly _disappear_ off the face of the earth it just means they disappear with no trace left of them on earth. Poof, they're gone, as if they had never existed.
> 
> ...


Do you live in V.C. B.C. I did live there for some time. Loved the fishing there.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Paumon said:


> So no fetal murder allowed. And no suicide allowed either, right ???


Wrong, fetal murder is well murder, and should not be allowed. Suicide on the other hand should be encouraged. But don't do it in the living room, somebody will have to clean up the mess. Walk out into the back yard and do it on the grass.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Pony said:


> SMH
> 
> Verbosity doesn't fix what you said.


There is no fixing what was said. Expressing a desire for contentment as being billions of current, living humans to cease to exist is what it is. Evil.


----------



## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

101pigs said:


> Do you live in V.C. B.C. I did live there for some time. Loved the fishing there.


4 Years McGill U. Loved it. Quebec.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> Wrong, fetal murder is well murder, and should not be allowed. Suicide on the other hand should be encouraged. But don't do it in the living room, somebody will have to clean up the mess. Walk out into the back yard and do it on the grass.


How about crawling into a dumpster 🤣?!?


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

TripleD said:


> How about crawling into a dumpster 🤣?!?


Never crawled into one but I have reached into a few.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

TripleD said:


> How about crawling into a dumpster 🤣?!?


It would minimize the clean up, but I think it is just too much to hope for.


----------



## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

TripleD said:


> 6 billion die just look at the nitrogen. "Buzzards got to eat same as worms" Somebody is in need of therepy ...


"I recon so"!


----------



## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> Wrong, fetal murder is well murder, and should not be allowed. Suicide on the other hand should be encouraged. But don't do it in the living room, somebody will have to clean up the mess. Walk out into the back yard and do it on the grass.


My old man used the backseat of a car and a 22 magnum to minimize the mess. He actually was thoughtful for that I guess. He meant well even in his pain.

Some things are worse than dying. To each their own.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> It would minimize the clean up, but I think it is just too much to hope for.


I put a total drunk/ drug addict in a dumpster one night. The police would pick him up and carry him to the hospital. The third or fourth time he was passed out in the common area of the apartments. New blanket and pillow and I left the lid open. The next day he was gone. I knew the schedule of pick up. He's not in the landfill...


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

101pigs said:


> Do you live in V.C. B.C. I did live there for some time. Loved the fishing there.


If by V.C. you mean Vancouver City, no I don't live there but I do presently live in an agricultural and dairy region in southern BC. I once lived in Vancouver temporarily for a very short while in the 1970's but I don't like cities or urban lifestyle. Most of my life before and after the short stint in Vancouver I've lived a rural farm life on acreages near small country towns in most regions of the province, including northern coastal regions. The fishing is fantastic in the north.

.


----------



## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Pony said:


> You complain about being "personally attacked," and then launch into full ad hominem mode.
> 
> SMH
> 
> Folks, maybe we should just ignore the troll.


I think i know who you must be talking about. I keep seeing pages with like 5 posts on them, I ignored this troll awhile back if it's the same one I'm thinking of


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Paumon said:


> I really miss Bearfootfarm. He was one of the most literal and most polite, knowledgeable, intelligent and impartial, non-divisive people I've ever met on internet. Nobody else on HT forum has ever been able to hold a candle to BFF. This forum isn't the same without him here anymore..


One of his most memorable and well used responses to those who had a pattern of nonsensical drivel. I'm sure you'll remember this hit.
SSDD.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Here is another one of Bearfootfarms memorable tunes dedicated to the ones he loved....


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

RJ2019 said:


> I think i know who you must be talking about. I keep seeing pages with like 5 posts on them, I ignored this troll awhile back if it's the same one I'm thinking of


The "ignore" function can certainly be useful.


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

RJ2019 said:


> I think i know who you must be talking about. I keep seeing pages with like 5 posts on them, I ignored this troll awhile back if it's the same one I'm thinking of


As a moderator on other forums I have a little tip for you (as a non moderator) about how to easily determine if somebody is a troll if that's what you suspect they are. Just do a quick skim through their recent posting history (it's easy to do by looking at their profile) and look for a pattern of non-helpful posts, mean spirited trolling, hit-and-runs, threatening, accusations and non-stop insults and sarcasm where none were called for. If you see that it's other people doing those things then you'll know that they are the ones who are trolls and they're the ones feeling threatened by the person they're accusing of being a troll. 

A little hint for you, it won't be me if that's what you're thinking. I left this forum 7.5 years ago in 2015 which was long before you joined the forum in 2019, and I never returned again until around 8 months ago, I think it was February 2021 but maybe it was March. I came back because I learned from other friends here that my very good friend BFF had died last autumn and I came to say my respects. I haven't made many posts since I returned 8 months ago, this week is probably the most posts I've made here at any one stretch during the past few months. Most people who've been here a long time know I'm not trolling, they all know who I am and what my history is but a few of them don't like or are afraid of what I say or where I live so they'll call me a troll or worse. They've established a pattern of doing that with _anyone_ on the forum that they don't like or who rocks their boats and makes them feel insecure or threatened.

As a still relative newbie on the board you should try to be sure of the facts before you start accusing anyone else with a long posting history with many posts to their name of being a troll.

.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Paumon said:


> As a moderator on other forums I have a little tip for you (as a non moderator) about how to easily determine if somebody is a troll if that's what you suspect they are. Just do a quick skim through their recent posting history
> 
> As a still relative newbie on the board you should try to be sure of the facts before you start accusing anyone else with a long posting history with many posts to their name of being a troll.


From one mod to another mod, I'll share a helpful tip for you and save you the expense and anticipation for the book.
Trolls are not exclusively short lived creatures, and your recent posting history might be what causes those "newbies" to believe as they do. 
I have seen one and done members put up more insightful posts over someone who just spittles to run up the post count and marvel at their prose.
Just saying.


----------



## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

GTX63 said:


> From one mod to another mod, I'll share a helpful tip for you and save you the expense and anticipation for the book.
> Trolls are not exclusively short lived creatures, and your recent posting history might be what causes those "newbies" to believe as they do.
> I have seen one and done members put up more insightful posts over someone who just spittles to run up the post count and marvel at their prose.
> Just saying.


Gotcha, point taken. I get it. Some people need small talk. I don't do small talk but I'll try to not direct any more posts specifically at people that I know don't have the capacity for more than small. Thanks for the tip.

.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Paumon said:


> Understanding words is important. Some people are apparently thinking that the word _disappear_ means the same thing as the word _die_, but they don't mean the same thing at all, they don't even mean anything similar to each other_._
> 
> If 6 billion people suddenly _disappear_ off the face of the earth it just means they disappear with no trace left of them on earth. Poof, they're gone, as if they had never existed.
> 
> ...


So you’d prefer that 6 billion people be vaporized from existence, rather than them dirtying your planet with their icky, decomposing bodies.

Glad we cleared that up, because that is SOOOOOO much better.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

How many of those 6 billion would be people who are a waste of oxygen? Rapists, murderers, child molesters, Nigerian princes, etc.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> How many of those 6 billion would be people who are a waste of oxygen? Rapists, murderers, child molesters, Nigerian princes, etc.


Hey now. Don't mess with that Nigerian prince. He still owes me some money.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Danaus29 said:


> How many of those 6 billion would be people who are a waste of oxygen? Rapists, murderers, child molesters, Nigerian princes, etc.


I don’t know. Probably whatever percentage of the general public is whatever you’d consider a lowlife. 5%? 10%? 99.8%?


----------



## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

Paumon said:


> Okie dokie then, fair enough. The answer is indeed severe drought conditions and pestilence over large swaths of the landmass of all of North America within the next 10 years. Is that soon enough? It won't be only lawns that will become obsolete. I say 10 years with confidence because all of the climate observations and predictions I've made in the past 14 years have already come to pass within the time frames that I've predicted they would happen, or sooner.


Sad that people have their mind made up about things when there actually are solutions that don't require a reworking of society; 




Water can be restored. Desertification can be reversed. Soils can be rebuilt. Carbon can be pulled back into the ground. 

Some people blame it on cattle but when the white man first came to this continent, there were more bison than there are cattle currently. Bison fart too. Most newer gas engines are near zero emissions. Nuclear power aside from disposing of the waste after many decades, is very clean. Natural gas is clean. 

But some people think all these things should be banned and replaced by electric items powered by solar panels and wind turbines work well in very few places. Watch Michael Moore's documentary, Planet of the Humans. Green is not green at all. 




The green movement is simply a changing of hands of trillions of dollars from one group of uber rich to another group of uber rich. You could cover the planet with solar and it still wouldn't be enough. The real goal of it is to force most people to live a primitive life. Maybe tptb see a few resources running out in several decades and want to make sure their grand kids don't have to do without so they're going to make the masses do without now. Super rich people think in long terms about their "legacy". Their portrait on the wall and their descendants talking about how they took care if the family.(everyone else be damned)

So many foolish people believe the propaganda. The oceans are rising and we're going to lose our coasts. Meanwhile, all the rich people who claim they believe that, have mansions on the coast. Obama must not be too worried about it. His Martha's Vineyard mansion is less than ten feet above sea level. All the rich green people fly around in private jets and have more than one mansion that use as much power as 20 average homes and fools believe their green bull**** lines.


----------



## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

Paumon said:


> You'd be wrong about that. I don't have any aspirations about how any of my neighbours / countrymen get to live, nor about how people in other countries get to live. I no longer care about other people or how they live. I'm really disillusioned and disappointed with all of humanity these days and would be content if a good 80% of the global population would just disappear off the face of the earth. And that's the truth.


Is that you Bernard?





Some people would actually like to be on the judgment panel that decides who the 80% will be.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I don’t know. Probably whatever percentage of the general public is whatever you’d consider a lowlife. 5%? 10%? 99.8%?


The "top 1%" parasites?



JohnP said:


> Is that you Bernard?
> 
> Some people would actually like to be on the judgment panel that decides who the 80% will be.


I think we have run into a couple of them here on this forum...


----------



## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Can you show us evidence of any of those predictions? The only reliable aspect of climate “science” we’ve learned over the last 40 years is that the predictions of the experts have always been wrong. If they weren’t, we’d have entered an ice age in the 90s, and become a super hot desert world in the 2000s. Is Miami underwater yet? When did the last polar bear die?
> 
> Seriously, if you’re the ONE great mind in all of climatology that is nailing the predictions, you need to get your word out there. The degrees scientists we have are all falling flat on their faces.


In the 70s, they said we'd be in an ice age by now.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Larry Burkett wrote a book back in 1991 titled The Coming Economic Earthquake. Shortly before he died he was asked why it hadn't happened and his reply was that the longer before it happens the worse it will be. It's looking like the time is near and it also looks like it will be worse than he originally forecast.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

MoonRiver said:


> The trend in the US is to move further left, sometimes quickly and sometimes more slowly, but always to the left.
> 
> I think the only thing that can stop it would be a major religious reformation that made churches relevant again, and I don't see that happening. Without a religious revival, the religion of the left will prevail.
> 
> ...


I would say it is the cities that are sliding left, getting stuff for free.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> I would say it is the cities that are sliding left, getting stuff for free.


I was thinking more in terms of laws, regulations, and government programs.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

MoonRiver said:


> I was thinking more in terms of laws, regulations, and government programs.


Understood, unfortunately they dominate the politics


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

HDRider said:


> My money is on the Native Australians


Then there are the survivalist "tribes" deep in the Amazon, some people can survive nature at it's best game.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

mamagoose said:


> Then there are the survivalist "tribes" deep in the Amazon, some people can survive nature at it's best game.


Sheryl Attkisson interviews the Amish.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

It's all ready here. Gain of function. 
News broke it was done and we paid for it. New war coming with China. Schools will be closed over Crt.
No gas will be available.
Food will be hard to get.
Government will fall over the spending bill.
The welfare system will be crashed due to all the vaccine mandatory fires.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I am wondering which cat I eat first if we run out of cat food.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Eat the larger one and grow the smaller out on the mice he eats, if he gets them before you do.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It is called Alley Rabbit for squeamish guests.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

HDRider said:


> I am wondering which cat I eat first if we run out of cat food.


Shame I rehomed so many cats last year


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