# Tactical .410



## HDRider

Does anyone make a high capacity .410?

I would prefer semi auto. Pump is OK.

Reliability and quality are most important.


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## Cornhusker

If you can find a used Saiga .410, they are pretty cool.
What do you consider high capacity?
Mossberg makes a 590 with a 6+1 capacity in .410


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## Cabin Fever

American Tactical does. Comes with a 5-round mag. A 15-round mag can be purchased separately. Don't ask me anything about them. All I know is what is in the article below.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/american-tacticals-ar-410/


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## GTX63

HDRider said:


> Does anyone make a high capacity .410?
> 
> I would prefer semi auto. Pump is OK.
> 
> Reliability and quality are most important.


For what purpose?


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## Cabin Fever

GTX63 said:


> For what purpose?


Tacticality.....


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## GTX63

I'm not a fan of the 410 for social work, but I can't wear a size 9 shoe either.


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## HDRider

Cornhusker said:


> If you can find a used Saiga .410, they are pretty cool.
> What do you consider high capacity?
> Mossberg makes a 590 with a 6+1 capacity in .410


The more the better, but 6 is good.

I almost said I could not find that 590 in .410.
https://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590-tactical/

Then I searched 590 410
https://www.mossberg.com/product/590-7-shot-50700/





I do like the looks of that.


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## HDRider

Cabin Fever said:


> American Tactical does. Comes with a 5-round mag. A 15-round mag can be purchased separately. Don't ask me anything about them. All I know is what is in the article below.
> 
> https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/american-tacticals-ar-410/


That might be too much gun.


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## HDRider

GTX63 said:


> For what purpose?


In-house shotgun for my wife. 12 or 20 is too much for her.


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## GTX63

Ah. My wife is the same.


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## HDRider

GTX63 said:


> Ah. My wife is the same.


She will shoot a 20 or 12, but she doesn't really "like" it. Shooting should be fun. Thought a 410 would be more pleasant for her, and if not, I love a good .410.


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## GTX63

Yep, a 410 judge is also a good garden/tractor/trail gun as well as for nightstands on top of her harlequins.


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## Cabin Fever

HDRider said:


> That might be too much gun.


Too much gun? How's that? It's a pound lighter than the Mossberg 590 and it has an adjustable M4 stock which would likely fit a smaller female frame much better than the 590.


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## GTX63

It is polymer.


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## Cornhusker

I've got 12s and 20s all over the place, but my pickup gun in the summer is a single shot .410 with a 28 inch barrel
I have a shell holder on the butt stock, and keep some #4 and a couple slugs in it. Makes it pretty versatile.
As I recall, it was pretty cheap too.


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## Cabin Fever

GTX63 said:


> It is polymer.


Yes it is. I'd imagine the butt, the handguard, grip, and magazine are all polymer just like amy other AR-15 platform firearms. So, what's your point? 

Personally I like firearms with some walnut furniture on them. Is that your point?


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## GTX63

Weight. It may be optimal for her to handle something that isn't bulky.
My youngest son's first rifle was a Colt AR 15 in .22. It is polymer other than the upper and lower and a great shooter.


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## Cabin Fever

GTX63 said:


> Weight. It may be optimal for her to handle something that isn't bulky.
> My youngest son's first rifle was a Colt AR 15 in .22. It is polymer other than the upper and lower and a great shooter.


That was my point, too. The AR.410 (that I linked to above) is a pound lighter than the Mossberg 590. It is adjustable to fit the shooter. Has a handguard rail for attachments. Can use a 15-round mag. And, it's a semi-auto. Can't get much more tactical than that. 

The OP did ask for recommendations for a "tactical" .410, didn't he?


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## GTX63

My wife didn't handle firearms when we first married. The first time she shot a 45 I thought she was going to cry. 
She also has weak hands and not a lot of upper body strength.
We looked for quite a while for a rifle as well as a handgun that was ergonomic, easy to manipulate, user friendly for reloads and operation.
In the end, HD will have better results if he stands behind while she does the search and then he'll know who really made the decision.
My wife tends to reach for one of our 10/22s because it is comfortable for her. 
I can tell her it may not be as effective against someone coming thru the door as another rifle, but in the end, she knows what works for her.


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## HDRider

Cabin Fever said:


> Too much gun? How's that? It's a pound lighter than the Mossberg 590 and it has an adjustable M4 stock which would likely fit a smaller female frame much better than the 590.


I did not match spec for spec. It looked long. I'd like something even shorter than the Mossberg.


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## Cabin Fever

People can be so different. My wife owns three revolvers that chamber .45acp rounds. Yes, that's right, revolvers can use an automatic pistol round. This way we can both use the same ammo in our handguns (I have a couple 1911s).

She has a fourth revolver, too. It's a Casull .454, the second most powerful handgun in the world.


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## HDRider

GTX63 said:


> It is polymer.


Is that the same one that CF showed? I like that, especially if it came with a shorter barrel. Maybe the other pic turned me off.


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## HDRider

Cabin Fever said:


> That was my point, too. The AR.410 (that I linked to above) is a pound lighter than the Mossberg 590. It is adjustable to fit the shooter. Has a handguard rail for attachments. Can use a 15-round mag. And, it's a semi-auto. Can't get much more tactical than that.
> 
> The OP did *ask for recommendations for a "tactical" .410,* didn't he?


Yes.


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## Cabin Fever

HDRider said:


> I did not match spec for spec. It looked long. I'd like something even shorter than the Mossberg.


The M4 should be shorter than the Mossberg. However, you could remove the butt stock on the Mossberg and replace it with just a handgrip. For instance, the photo below is of our "short" Mossberg with an 18.5" barrel.


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## HDRider

Cabin Fever said:


> The M4 should be shorter than the Mossberg. However, you could remove the butt stock on the Mossberg and replace it with just a handgrip. For instance, the photo below is of our "short" Mossberg with an 18.5" barrel.


Mossberg has models like that. She would not like that.


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## Cabin Fever

Both the Mossberg 590 and the AR.410 that I posted come with a 18.5 inch barrel. The shortest allowed barrel that is allowed, without going thru Federal hoops, is 16".


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## GunMonkeyIntl

Cabin Fever said:


> Both the Mossberg 590 and the AR.410 that I posted come with a 18.5 inch barrel. The shortest allowed barrel that is allowed, without going thru Federal hoops, is 16".


Not on a shotgun. Shotguns become “short-barreled” at 18”. Rifles are 16”. That’s why all the 18.5” barrels on “Tactical” shotguns.


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## GTX63

Squirrel...

Everytime I see a 590 or a Mariner I start thinking of my next reason to buy a shotgun. 
I need some contacts to disguise the look in my eye.
My wife knows.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

why .410 if your shooting slugs you would be a lot better off with a 45 lever gun
if your shooting shot why not a 20 ga pump

410 is overly expensive to feed , weak , sort range , light payload , yes it is light recoil but so are 45lc or 38spl from a lever gun or 9mm from a carbine

for social work I would just go 223/5.56 in a 16 inch barrel AR don't re invent the wheel just use V-Max or Hornady Urban T.A.P ammo.

my sons AR is running a AR Stoner comp recently installed and is almost recoil-less had it out last week and running my typical do everything load 55gr soft points with comp 50% of the already light recoil of 223


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## Wyobuckaroo

410 is overly expensive to feed , weak , sort range , light payload , yes it is light recoil 
+++++
Yes.. A 410 is all that... However, I would not want to be on the wrong end of a face full of #6 from a 410.. 
Same thing may be said for the 22lr.. Or a lot of other things that are not the biggest, latest, greatest, most modern, most popular today.. That all may change tomorrow.. 

But.. Like the saying goes.. That is why they make Ford and Chevy...


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## oldasrocks

I've butchered a lot of beef I knocked down with a 22LR. Shot many a pheasant with a .410. Wife shoots a Circuit Judge. No thinking, just pull the trigger. If 5 rounds don't change a bad guys mind nothing will. I did pick up a Siaga .410 on an auction but it is heavy for a woman who tops out at 4 ft 10 and weighs 104 lbs.


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## HDRider

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> why .410 if your shooting slugs you would be a lot better off with a 45 lever gun
> if your shooting shot why not a 20 ga pump
> 
> 410 is overly expensive to feed , weak , sort range , light payload , yes it is light recoil but so are 45lc or 38spl from a lever gun or 9mm from a carbine
> 
> for social work I would just go 223/5.56 in a 16 inch barrel AR don't re invent the wheel just use V-Max or Hornady Urban T.A.P ammo.
> 
> my sons AR is running a AR Stoner comp recently installed and is almost recoil-less had it out last week and running my typical do everything load 55gr soft points with comp 50% of the already light recoil of 223


She has a M&P revolver with red dot.

I thought a light weight .410 with buck shot would have low recoil and more lady friendly. She is not a shooter by nature, but does see that the need might exist. She will practice on a gun she likes.


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## GTX63

With some of the thread responses you get on HT, it seems that you better hurry up and make a decision.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

you should look at the 38/357 lever gun posted in one of the threads here a while back it was a nice looking stainless gun that his wife really liked for most all her shooting needs.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I am not finding it right now but it was like this 
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022361283?pid=891935

not cheap but good the poster had a suppressor on his and his wife liked not needing hearing protection a white light would also be good.

a Ruger PCC might also fit the need very well ,very minimal recoil easy to operate and good mag capacity
https://www.budsgunshop.com/product...r+pc+carbine+9mm+1612+takedown+tb/fluted+17rd
running personal defense ammo a 9mm carbine is a good tool and easy to feed , light recoil


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## HDRider

An ad for this Henry is what gave me the idea

I just knew someone made a AR style 410 with a 16" barrel, before @GunMonkeyIntl educated me about barrel length restrictions on shot guns


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

410 000 buck shot is a buck a round or better and has 3 balls with a total payload of 1/4 oz 109gr and a velocity of about 1100 fps 

a 357 with a 125gr jacketed hollowpoint from a shorter 16 inch barrel will still have minimal recoil but is going 2000fps
want less recoil yet the 38spl from the 16 inch barrel 125gr is running 1200 fps 

why waste space and capacity on 410 3 pellet buck that is going to have questionable , accuracy ,penetration , energy and range 
you can get more rounds , more power , greater range , better penetration and more capacity in a smaller package and have similar recoil


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

if my options were 410 lever gun or a 22mag lever gun at half the price for a person who I was afraid was recoil sensitive I would take the 22mag buy 400 dollars in ammo and have a much more useful tool with almost no recoil.

you get good by shooting with good instruction, by shooting often enough to know right where things hit , experience matters more than the tool.
but if the tool is something she uses regular on wood chucks , raccoons, coyotes and other garden pests she is a lot more likely to be well practiced should she need it on larger

I wouldn't want to stand in front of a 22 short but I really think 410 is a waste of a caliber it is a 3 inch shell trying to be a 45lc at best

if it doesn't make a raccoon go stiff and flop over with half way decent shot placement I don't want to be shooting a **** or anything bigger with it.
I would rather see her have the 22mag as a go to gun for every day use that is a tool she knows very well than really anything that she would shoot twice a year and leave in the safe.


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## Bearfootfarm

If I wanted *minimal* recoil and high capacity for *indoor* self defense I'd stick with a 22 LR 10/22 and load it with Remington Vipers.


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## nchobbyfarm

If you want a 410 shotgun for someone that has limited shooting experience, I would recommend a Stoeger Coach side by side. Limited moving parts to cut down on problems in a high stress situation. Anything in an automatic or pump could present issues in a life or death situation that an inexperienced person may not be able to clear under pressure.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

in training doing the same thing every time makes more sense than having to think about doing different things.

a side by side isn't as simple as you might think on the inside , nor is handling shells while breaking open a gun fast.

a break can get a stuck shell that stops you up just as fast as a pump or auto

I have had issues with semi auto shotguns not a lot most of them were my gloved hand catching the bolt handle at ejection

pump guns really are quite easy to operate , hold more ammo than double barrels , have a better fire power to weight ratio and get that 3rd ,4th and often , 5th 6th and 7th round available a lot faster and don't rely on gas to cycle so a bad round is ejected unless it is a rim separation but that is going to stop any gun double , pump, auto
good quality ammo that you have tested well is the fix to that as much as it can be fixed.

there is a reason we have a range rod at the trap range , Fiber glass rod the you place up the barrel and push down on the concrete with to push stuck hulls and locked up bolts with , bad ammo happens , a second gun is not a bad idea.

a friend bought 5 cases of an ammo at for his 3 gun shotgun good price stocked up, he shot a few in practice no issues , then come competition about every 7th round would rip the rim off the plastic hull in his Stoeger 3K 3 gun competition model lesson learned fire at least 100 of what ever you plan to use and under rapid competition or defense condition run them hard so you know they work when you need them. best to have a case shoot half for practice then keep half for the real thing knowing your gun works with them and they are going to perform.

any gun is better than no gun , a gun you are intimately familiar with is better yet and a gun that has capacity, simplicity, durability , ease of loading and you are intimately familiar with is even better yet.


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## oldasrocks

HDRider said:


> The more the better, but 6 is good.
> 
> I almost said I could not find that 590 in .410.
> Mossberg 590® Tactical | O.F. Mossberg & Sons, Inc.
> 
> Then I searched 590 410
> 590 7-Shot | O.F. Mossberg & Sons, Inc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do like the looks of that.


To make you feel bad I run across a new Saiga .410 at an auction a few yrs ago for $85. Extended mags were hard to find and cost more than the gun did. Sweet shooter.


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## muleskinner2

An AR with a 18 inch barrel and an adjustable stock, will be as short as you can get without a tax stamp. Get her some 25 round magazines for the 10-22 and call it good. If she can shoot it, nobody is going to come through 25 rounds of .22 and still be fighting.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

muleskinner2 said:


> An AR with a 18 inch barrel and an adjustable stock, will be as short as you can get without a tax stamp. Get her some 25 round magazines for the 10-22 and call it good. If she can shoot it, nobody is going to come through 25 rounds of .22 and still be fighting.


I wouldn't be too sure about that but it is much less likely. police have had to shoot people upwards of 20 times with 9mm and 40cal to stop them it of course depends a lot what they are high on and the quality of the hits.

biggest down side to 22lr is it's reliability to fire , feed and store well

you don't have to have big recoil to be effective

9mm braced pistol 10.5 inch barrel making an excellent PDW personal defensive weapon

lower https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...brace-lower-uses-glockr-style-5165449975.html

upper https://palmettostatearmory.com/pa-...-slanted-m-lok-railed-upper-with-bcg-ch4.html

optic , with shake awake it can hang on the wall and when you pick it up the optic comes to life , change battery once a year


https://palmettostatearmory.com/sig-sauer-romeo5-1x20mm-red-dot-sight-black-r52001.html



light , mount this on a short section of rail under the muzzle the switch will be right where your hand falls


https://palmettostatearmory.com/streamlight-tlr-1-hl-weapon-light-630-lumens-69260.html




you feed it from 33 round Glock mags , https://palmettostatearmory.com/glock-g17-9mm-33-round-magazine-od-green-gl47462.html


you use quality Personal defense ammo that stores well and has a very very high reliability rate. https://palmettostatearmory.com/hor...xtp-custom-pistol-ammunition-25rds-90242.html

there is almost no recoil , virtually no muzzle rise , it is faster than a hand gun with more control for rounds on target

perhaps the only downside is Brandon's ATF wants to make it an SBR and restrict you from having it.

the Lower ships to your FFL the rest to your house , 30 seconds to pin the upper to the lower and it is built lube it and go shoot.


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## muleskinner2

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I wouldn't be too sure about that but it is much less likely. police have had to shoot people upwards of 20 times with 9mm and 40cal to stop them it of course depends a lot what they are high on and the quality of the hits.
> 
> biggest down side to 22lr is it's reliability to fire , feed and store well
> 
> you don't have to have big recoil to be effective
> 
> 9mm braced pistol 10.5 inch barrel making an excellent PDW personal defensive weapon
> 
> lower https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...brace-lower-uses-glockr-style-5165449975.html
> 
> upper https://palmettostatearmory.com/pa-...-slanted-m-lok-railed-upper-with-bcg-ch4.html
> 
> optic , with shake awake it can hang on the wall and when you pick it up the optic comes to life , change battery once a year
> 
> 
> https://palmettostatearmory.com/sig-sauer-romeo5-1x20mm-red-dot-sight-black-r52001.html
> 
> 
> 
> light , mount this on a short section of rail under the muzzle the switch will be right where your hand falls
> 
> 
> https://palmettostatearmory.com/streamlight-tlr-1-hl-weapon-light-630-lumens-69260.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you feed it from 33 round Glock mags , https://palmettostatearmory.com/glock-g17-9mm-33-round-magazine-od-green-gl47462.html
> 
> 
> you use quality Personal defense ammo that stores well and has a very very high reliability rate. https://palmettostatearmory.com/hor...xtp-custom-pistol-ammunition-25rds-90242.html
> 
> there is almost no recoil , virtually no muzzle rise , it is faster than a hand gun with more control for rounds on target
> 
> perhaps the only downside is Brandon's ATF wants to make it an SBR and restrict you from having it.
> 
> the Lower ships to your FFL the rest to your house , 30 seconds to pin the upper to the lower and it is built lube it and go shoot.


All true, although I have fired thousands of rounds of .22 and have only had two or three fail to fire. I have had light primer strikes on 9mm, 45 auto, 357, and .44 mag. I have had 5.56 fail to fire while I was taking fire. It can happen with any type of ammo.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

muleskinner2 said:


> All true, although I have fired thousands of rounds of .22 and have only had two or three fail to fire. I have had light primer strikes on 9mm, 45 auto, 357, and .44 mag. I have had 5.56 fail to fire while I was taking fire. It can happen with any type of ammo.


yes it can happen with any type of ammo. some less likely

what's your brand of 22lr

in Remington golden bullets 1-3% is very normal for me many times you can load them in again turned 90 degrees and they fire ,but that does you no good in a gun fight.

most of the others it depend a lot on storage CCI have been the best for me on those I might go an entire brick without a failure to fire

we had 2 cases of Federal 325 round packs 3250 round per case we were just under 1% the first year we had them going 2-3 duds per box and shot a little over a case , they spent the year in storage in my van and we were closer to 10% the next spring.

it may be that the dry west doesn't effect them as much

I have not had a light strike in a Glock ever with 9mm many thousands of rounds not to say it couldn't happen but with factory springs it is a lot less likely to happen also not in my 38 with factory springs nor any of my rifles with factory springs AR mil spec springs tend to be fairly strong to avoid light strikes.


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## muleskinner2

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> yes it can happen with any type of ammo. some less likely
> 
> what's your brand of 22lr
> 
> in Remington golden bullets 1-3% is very normal for me many times you can load them in again turned 90 degrees and they fire ,but that does you no good in a gun fight.
> 
> most of the others it depend a lot on storage CCI have been the best for me on those I might go an entire brick without a failure to fire
> 
> we had 2 cases of Federal 325 round packs 3250 round per case we were just under 1% the first year we had them going 2-3 duds per box and shot a little over a case , they spent the year in storage in my van and we were closer to 10% the next spring.
> 
> it may be that the dry west doesn't effect them as much
> 
> I have not had a light strike in a Glock ever with 9mm many thousands of rounds not to say it couldn't happen but with factory springs it is a lot less likely to happen also not in my 38 with factory springs nor any of my rifles with factory springs AR mil spec springs tend to be fairly strong to avoid light strikes.


The CCI mini mags.


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## HDRider

muleskinner2 said:


> The CCI mini mags.


Do you consider Stingers hotter than Mini Mags?

I have a Sig Mosquito that is super picky. Mini Mags worked OK, but the last time I was at the gun shop the owner talked me into trying Stingers. I have not shot them yet.


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## GunMonkeyIntl

HDRider said:


> Do you consider Stingers hotter than Mini Mags?
> 
> I have a Sig Mosquito that is super picky. Mini Mags worked OK, but the last time I was at the gun shop the owner talked me into trying Stingers. I have not shot them yet.


Stingers are quite a bit hotter than mini-mags. The projectile is only 10% lighter, but the velocity is something like 30% faster.

If you want to run them in an autoloader, just check your ejection pattern against the next lighter known-functioning round to make sure you aren’t running the bolt too fast.


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## HDRider

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> make sure you aren’t running the bolt too fast.


I don't understand what you are trying to tell me. Are you saying not to pull the trigger too fast, or are you saying the load will cause the action to be too fast?

If the latter, would you not think a gun with Sig's reputed quality could handle just about anything?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

HDRider said:


> I don't understand what you are trying to tell me. Are you saying not to pull the trigger too fast, or are you saying the load will cause the action to be too fast?
> 
> If the latter, would you not think a gun with Sig's reputed quality could handle just about anything?


bolt velocity batters parts is what he is saying 

the design is made for a bolt moving X that weights Y if you run it with the bolt running 2X and keep the weight Y now it batters into the receiver 

even if you pull the trigger faster than the bolt can run , it doesn't do anything to make it go faster the bolt has to return to battery to fire usually it causes a malfunction if you over run the trigger different guns are easier or harder to over run the trigger direct blow backs easier , and locking lug types require lock up prior to firing


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## HDRider

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> bolt velocity batters parts


Further, is it expected that the bolt velocity is higher with CCI Stingers than Mini Mags?



Thanks



GunMonkeyIntl said:


> check your ejection pattern


And even further,

Check it in what way? How far it throws the hull?


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## GunMonkeyIntl

HDRider said:


> …If the latter, would you not think a gun with Sig's reputed quality could handle just about anything?


The latter, and no. Unfortunately, they can’t build a gun that won’t take excess wear and tear from excess bolt velocity. Steel-on-steel wears steel, regardless who cut it. Any rebound system has to be designed as a balance against the lightest and heaviest loads the design is expected to see. It’s rarely a perfect compromise, and either the lightest loads will fail to cycle, or the hottest loads will cause the bolt/slide to batter the receiver/frame.

Stingers, Mini-mags and Velocitors are not exactly run-of-the-mill .22 LR. SAAMI chose not to categorize them separately, but it was hotly debated. If it weren’t for the fact that most .22s are so overbuilt, and CCI’s prominence in SAAMI, the mini mag probably would have been deemed a .22 LR +P (at least, if not a “.22 LR Miniature Magnum”). The gun manufacturers were allowed to test them prior to marketing, and the use was determined to be safe, but many of the engineers didn’t like them for autoloaders.

Because of the way a blow-back .22 pistol works, they stand to take the most excess wear from these cartridges, and gain the least benefit (unless muzzle flash is the goal). They achieve their ballistics by using a “peakier” propellant, and more of it, hoping to burn through it all in a 18-22” barrel. In a pistol, you’ll gain some velocity, but also hit the same top peak pressure and send more unburned out the barrel.

I don’t say any of that to alarm you. You’re not going to wear out a pistol in 1,000 rounds of that stuff. You probably will take 5-10,000 rounds off the life of the pistol with that 1,000 rounds, though. That’s why I suggest checking your ejection pattern. It’s just a stool check on what’s going on with the new load.

Autoloading pistols really are the perfect platform for 36-40gr high-velocity rounds. If you’re having to go to <36gr and/or hyper-velocity rounds to get it to run, something is wrong. Mini mags really belong in bolt guns.


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## GunMonkeyIntl

HDRider said:


> Further, is it expected that the bolt velocity is higher with CCI Stingers than Mini Mags?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> And even further,
> 
> Check it in what way? How far it throws the hull?


Yes. Bolt velocity is probably faster with Stingers than mini mags.

To check bolt velocity, without a high speed camera and lights, take your normal load, or one that is known to run well, and put 10 or 20 rounds through it, then do the same with the new load. If the brass “groups” are not significantly different, then all is well.

More likely the hotter load will throw brass further or, even more likely, at a different angle. What, exactly, the angle tells you requires looking at the extraction and ejection system, and determining what the change in angle means. Something with a shell deflector, like an AR will do one thing, while something with a fixed extractor and ejector, like a 1911, will do the opposite.

I don’t have a mosquito, but I assume it’s a fixed ejector and fixed, pivoting or flexing extractor. If that is the case, and you don’t normally see brass marks on your slide (meaning it’s acting like a deflector), faster slide velocity is probably going to pitch the brass more toward the rear of your position. It could end up that everything goes 90 degrees, though, and hotter loads just throw the brass further.


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## HDRider

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> The latter, and no.


Is the Mosquito just a lemon? 

Feels like a good gun, but it has been a pain since day 1.


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## GunMonkeyIntl

HDRider said:


> Is the Mosquito just a lemon?
> 
> Feels like a good gun, but it has been a pain since day 1.


I really don’t have any experience with them. Sorry. I’m a Sig fan, but not everything the poop out is gold.

What does it do?

ETA: again, it should run with 36-40gr high velocities if it’s worth a damn. What does it do when you feed it that?


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## HDRider

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> What does it do?


I have not shot the Stingers yet. It does pretty good with the Mini Mags. Other ammo will jam once or twice every mag



GunMonkeyIntl said:


> What does it do when you feed it that?


It is a very well documented problem. It is all over the internet.




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Mosquito poor ejection and extraction and jamming


Greetings All! My nephew has a Mosquito that he purchased new that has never worked as one would expect since he acquired it. I, too, have fired the pistol and have found his complaints about the pistol valid. A couple of weeks ago he asked me to look at it. Doing no more than a field strip...




www.sigtalk.com





It does not eject the empty hull and jams the next cartridge. 

It was not a cheap gun.


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## GunMonkeyIntl

HDRider said:


> I have not shot the Stingers yet. It does pretty good with the Mini Mags. Other ammo will jam once or twice every mag
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> It is a very well documented problem. It is all over the internet.
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> Mosquito poor ejection and extraction and jamming
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> 
> Greetings All! My nephew has a Mosquito that he purchased new that has never worked as one would expect since he acquired it. I, too, have fired the pistol and have found his complaints about the pistol valid. A couple of weeks ago he asked me to look at it. Doing no more than a field strip...
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> www.sigtalk.com
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> It does not eject the empty hull and jams the next cartridge.
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> It was not a cheap gun.


So the consensus amongst owners is that they don’t shoot well with normal .22 LR ammo, and have to shoot mini mags? That doesn’t sound like a lemon, to me. It sounds like a garbage design. 

I looked at some pics in one of the threads, and it looks like the extractor/ejector layout was lifted from a centerfire design, and just doesn’t work. If if cycles full-stroke, but just dribbles they spent cases out, and going to a mini-mag type round “seems to improve it”, I bet they’re just relying on the added velocity to rattle the case (hopefully) out of the action. If it was just a matter of being too stiff at the start, someone would have come up with a more reasonable recoil spring for break-in, and everyone would be happy with it. That that doesn’t appear to be the case doesn’t sound promising. 

If mini mags make it work like you’d expect it to, then Stingers or Velocitors should as well. If it were my gun, it wouldn’t be for long. I’d dump it in a heartbeat for a Mk I/II/III/IV, Buckmark, or any of a couple dozen .22 pistol designs that actually work.


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## HDRider

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> So the consensus amongst owners is that they don’t shoot well with normal .22 LR ammo, and have to shoot mini mags? That doesn’t sound like a lemon, to me. It sounds like a garbage design.
> 
> I looked at some pics in one of the threads, and it looks like the extractor/ejector layout was lifted from a centerfire design, and just doesn’t work. If if cycles full-stroke, but just dribbles they spent cases out, and going to a mini-mag type round “seems to improve it”, I bet they’re just relying on the added velocity to rattle the case (hopefully) out of the action. If it was just a matter of being too stiff at the start, someone would have come up with a more reasonable recoil spring for break-in, and everyone would be happy with it. That that doesn’t appear to be the case doesn’t sound promising.
> 
> If mini mags make it work like you’d expect it to, then Stingers or Velocitors should as well. If it were my gun, it wouldn’t be for long. I’d dump it in a heartbeat for a Mk I/II/III/IV, Buckmark, or any of a couple dozen .22 pistol designs that actually work.


It was a bad buy. I got it right after it came out, and I bought based on the Sig name and how it felt in my hand. I chose it over a Walther P22. I messed up


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## GunMonkeyIntl

HDRider said:


> It was a bad buy. I got it right after it came out, and I bought based on the Sig name and how it felt in my hand. I chose it over a Walther P22. I messed up


Sell it and get something that works.


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## HDRider

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Sell it and get something that works.


I am not excited about getting beat up on it. I guess Sig does not sell Mosquitos now. 









Sig Sauer P322 Semi-Automatic Pistol 22 Long Rifle 4 Barrel 20-Round


The new P322 was completely designed and built by SIG SAUER in New Hampshire and is loaded with premium features, including an optic-ready removable...




www.midwayusa.com






I don't even know how to price it.

















SIG MOSQUITO New and Used Price, Value, & Trends 2022


View the current price and value of new and used a SIG MOSQUITO based on 153 sold items over the past year.




truegunvalue.com


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## GunMonkeyIntl

Looks like about $3-400. What did you pay for it?


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## HDRider

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Looks like about $3-400. What did you pay for it?


I really do not remember. Between $500 and $600 I think


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## muleskinner2

HDRider said:


> If the latter, would you not think a gun with Sig's reputed quality could handle just about anything?


The gun can handle it, but the bolt might be running so fast that it is returning into battery before the shell case can clear the port. It's hard to imagine until you watch a video of a shell ejecting in slow motion. The shell case often rattles around in the port before it clears and is flung away.


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## GunMonkeyIntl

HDRider said:


> I really do not remember. Between $500 and $600 I think


Doesn’t sound like you’d take too much of a beating, then. At meaty twice the price for mini mags, you’ll have spent that $1-200 on having to buy more expensive ammo for it.


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## HDRider

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Doesn’t sound like you’d take too much of a beating, then. At meaty twice the price for mini mags, you’ll have spent that $1-200 on having to buy more expensive ammo for it.


I need to deal with it.


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## GunMonkeyIntl

HDRider said:


> I need to deal with it.


Yeah. I hate having a tool around that doesn’t work. It eats at me.


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## HDRider

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Yeah. I hate having a tool around that doesn’t work. It eats at me.


I had a Mark II. First pistol I ever bought. Walked into a pawn shop and carried it out down in Houston in the early 80's.

Traded it for something. Can't recall what. It cost almost nothing. It was fairly worn out.


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## GunMonkeyIntl

HDRider said:


> I had a Mark II. First pistol I ever bought. Walked into a pawn shop and carried it out down in Houston in the early 80's.
> 
> Traded it for something. Can't recall what. It cost almost nothing. It was fairly worn out.


I don’t think you can wear a Mk out. May need to throw a couple parts at them from time to time - after a loooong time- but the frame/barrel/bolt in that design is rock solid. It is exactly what a post apocalyptic gunsmith would build from scratch, only Ruger builds them from quality, first-run steel.

Every American should have at least one Mk. And, if they already have “too many” guns, they can always excuse adding it to their inventory listed as a hammer.


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## Hiro

I'll send the pics once outfitted by this random other person that likely will lose it in a boating accident when the optics and light are fixed.

ETA: If anyone else wants one to lose accidentally:

Before they are banned.


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## GunMonkeyIntl

Hiro said:


> View attachment 108440
> 
> 
> I'll send the pics once outfitted by this random other person that likely will lose it in a boating accident when the optics and light are fixed.
> 
> ETA: If anyone else wants one to lose accidentally:
> 
> Before they are banned.


I love a PCC, but why would it be banned? The brace? Form 1 SBR it and never worry about it.


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## Hiro

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I love a PCC, but why would it be banned? The brace? Form 1 SBR it and never worry about it.


I don't like kissing that ring. Paying a fee now and filling out a form doesn't mean it won't be banned retroactively tomorrow. You may forget what state that I live in that was only one or two votes in the Communistwealth legislature from making a sizeable percentage of its citizens felons not too long ago.


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## Hiro




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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Hiro said:


> View attachment 108541


8 or 10.5

10.5 is a very nice size , much sorter and I would worry about putting my hand too far forward 

they are a blast in 9mm

in 5.56 they are darn right blasty but still such a handy size 

there is no reason Americans shouldn't have true SBRs with no illegal tax , there just isn't 

reference my PDW thread


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## HDRider

Hiro said:


> View attachment 108440
> 
> 
> I'll send the pics once outfitted by this random other person that likely will lose it in a boating accident when the optics and light are fixed.
> 
> ETA: If anyone else wants one to lose accidentally:
> 
> Before they are banned.


I know someone that just bought that. It was $100 cheaper than your link, from the same link a few weeks earlier


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## Hiro

HDRider said:


> I know someone that just bought that. It was $100 cheaper than your link, from the same link a few weeks earlier


Story of my life.


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## Hiro

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> 8 or 10.5
> 
> 10.5 is a very nice size , much sorter and I would worry about putting my hand too far forward
> 
> they are a blast in 9mm
> 
> in 5.56 they are darn right blasty but still such a handy size
> 
> there is no reason Americans shouldn't have true SBRs with no illegal tax , there just isn't
> 
> reference my PDW thread


It is an 8 inch barrel. It is a neat little thing. I need a light.


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## Chief50

Anyone buy one of those pistols that shot 410 and 45? I don't kn ow anything about them and don't hear much about them either.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Chief50 said:


> Anyone buy one of those pistols that shot 410 and 45? I don't kn ow anything about them and don't hear much about them either.


if you need to shoot a bunch of snakes at 5-10 feet they might be useful. mostly they are a gimmick 

watch this


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## Fishindude

I've got a Judge .410 / .45 LC.
It shoots the .45 LC surprisingly well.


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## Chief50

It has been some time since I saw a judge but the ones I saw were a much larger gun, six inch barrel.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Fishindude said:


> I've got a Judge .410 / .45 LC.
> It shoots the .45 LC surprisingly well.


but does it shoot 45lc as good or better than a purpose built 45lc or does that large jump to the rifling cost you something , does all that added length in the cylinder cost weight how much are you willing to compromise to add shooting .410


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## Shrek

Posted 4/13/22 2:36 P.M. CDST

GCP,

The Judge I got in a trade a few years ago works good with .410 bird shot or reload #4 buckshot (about 8 pellets) for a snake gun but with .45 LC not near as accurate as the third generation Peacemaker handed down to me from my grandfather.

I use the Judge as a snake gun if I can't get .38 caliber shot shells because it is so much heavier to holster carry instead of pocket carrying the stainless detective special Colt I bought for when doing chores.


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