# I am new here..got a problem



## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

I recently went to the flea market and bought a little goat. I haven't had goats since I was a kid and was excited to finally have one again. Well, I have been worried to death about her the whole week I have had her. The vet guessed she was about 4 weeks old. The other day she woke up with diarrhea, then very lethagic. Now today, she is falling down. It is like her front legs are "giving out" on her. Any suggestions? Thank you, Pam


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

What have you been feeding her? Has she had any shots? Has she been wormed? Do you know if she got any colostrum after she was born (did she nurse her mother)? Where are you keeping her -- what kind of shelter and bedding? Is she alone (goats hate to be alone -- it's very stressful for them)?

Once we know the answers to these questions, we can try to help you (but you may need to take her back to the vet ASAP -- babies can go down and die awfully fast).

ETA: can you take her temperature? What color is the skin inside her eyelids? Has she been eating? Are her BM's normal (little pellets)? 

Kathleen


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

As far as any shots, or worming, no, I took her to the vet Tues, and she had a temp and upper resp. infection. So we are treating that, and she wants to see her again Tues. She has been grazing, that is all she will eat. I limit her time out. She stays in a super large doghouse(I have a mastiff) with straw and water. She does not have a goat friend yet, trying to find her one, and not from the flea market. I actually got her for my great pyr puppy. All this would happen on a holiday weekend.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

BlueJuniperFarm said:


> What have you been feeding her? Has she had any shots? Has she been wormed? Do you know if she got any colostrum after she was born (did she nurse her mother)? Where are you keeping her -- what kind of shelter and bedding? Is she alone (goats hate to be alone -- it's very stressful for them)?
> 
> Once we know the answers to these questions, we can try to help you (but you may need to take her back to the vet ASAP -- babies can go down and die awfully fast).
> 
> ...



I forgot to answer all your questions. lol She will graze constantly if I would allow it. Her BM's are normal, and I will chech her eyelids, and as far as her temp, what is normal? She can not even stand now!


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

4 weeks and only "grazing?" No milk/bottle?

Did your vet think that was ok?

Janis


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Janis Sauncy said:


> 4 weeks and only "grazing?" No milk/bottle?
> 
> Did your vet think that was ok?
> 
> Janis



I thought the same thing! That is one of the reasons I plan on going to vet number 2. She never educated me and I was asking all the questions I knew to ask. Which wasn't much. I feel terrible, what should I do?


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## TennesseeMama23 (May 10, 2006)

4 weeks old is too young to wean--he should be on a bottle. Poor thing-she has gone for a week without any nourishment. 

Get some whole cows milk from the grocery store and try to get her to take a bottle, she needs worming and treated for cocci. 

Can I ask how much you paid for her?

ETA: if she still has the runs- get some Scour-halt (pink for pigs) and give her 2 cc's 2 times a day until it stops (if she lives that long).


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Normal temp. is 102.5 to 104. Do you have an animal rectal thermometer? I don't think it's safe to use a human one -- if that's all you have, be really careful to hold onto it while it's inserted. (Animal ones have a ring on the end to tie a string to so you don't lose them internally!)

What you are looking at with the eyelids is to see if they are pale -- nearly white -- or nice and pink. Pale means she needs to be wormed badly (they can die fast of an overload of worms).

Okay. If she's only four weeks old, she is way too young to be weaned, she needs either milk, or milk-replacer pellets (called Calf Manna and other brand names, depending on where you are). She also needs some grain -- she will only eat small amounts right now, but give her a handful two or three times a day -- I feed dry COB (corn oats and barley), but you can use goat pellets if you want. Also she should be getting hay, preferably alfalfa for the calcium and protein, since she's not getting milk. 

She may also not have had a selenium shot after she was born. Do you have any vitamin E capsules, or can you get some? If so, put a pin hole into the end of one and squeeze it into her mouth twice a day for the next three or four days, at least until you can get a selenium shot from the vet. 

Next, get a Vit. B shot for her -- your feed store may carry the bottles of Vit. B, and they should have the needles and syringes. Also, get a large syringe, and get some live-culture yogurt or some probios into her tummy (feed store should have the probios). 

The feed store should also have CD & T vaccine -- get that and give her a shot of it, 2 cc's. And worm her, just to be on the safe side -- she probably needs it. 

Do you have any idea what breed she is? Can you get a weight?

Kathleen

ETA: I got a little doe a few weeks ago who was only six weeks old, and had been on her mother -- couldn't get her to take a bottle, but after a couple of days she did start drinking warm, fresh milk right out of the milking pail (after I took what I wanted for the house). It's really hard to get a dam-raised kid to take a bottle, but she might drink out of a pan like mine did (mine was a stud fee, and was supposed to come to my house a lot younger, when I had a chance of persuading her to take a bottle).


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

BlueJuniperFarm said:


> Normal temp. is 102.5 to 104. Do you have an animal rectal thermometer? I don't think it's safe to use a human one -- if that's all you have, be really careful to hold onto it while it's inserted. (Animal ones have a ring on the end to tie a string to so you don't lose them internally!)
> 
> What you are looking at with the eyelids is to see if they are pale -- nearly white -- or nice and pink. Pale means she needs to be wormed badly (they can die fast of an overload of worms).
> 
> ...




This is alot to take in. I have no idea what breed she is, been trying to figure that out. The guy that I bought her from said she is old enough to eat, I asked him how old she was and he didn't know. Said he just got her a couple days ago. She had a tag in her ear, assuming maybe he got her at the stock barn. I watched her nurse another doe right before I got her. It wasn't her mother. So she has been alone for too long, with no mommy.

I have tried to bottle feed her, and she is not having it. I will continue to try. I also put some in a bowl. She just turns her head. I will not be able to get anything you mentioned until TUESDAY! Everything closed. I checked her eyelids and they are pale, not real pale, but pale with some pink.


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

I would keep trying her with the bottle. That means holding her head still with one arm/hand (I used to hold them in the crook of my left arm and hold the head still by holding the chin in my left hand) and forcing the bottle (in my right hand) in at the corner of the mouth. Try and squeeze a small amount out so she gets a taste.

Good luck.

Janis


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

Yes...bottlefeeding can be a challenge that's for sure. Do you have a Tractor Supply close by? They carry most everything you need to get her on the right track.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Janis Sauncy said:


> I would keep trying her with the bottle. That means holding her head still with one arm/hand (I used to hold them in the crook of my left arm and hold the head still by holding the chin in my left hand) and forcing the bottle (in my right hand) in at the corner of the mouth. Try and squeeze a small amount out so she gets a taste.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Janis



That is exactly how I done it and she actually drank some, well not actually wanting to drink it, but I watched her swallow quite a few times. I have bottled raised many different animals, and I know it takes a while for them to get used to it. I wanted to try it yesterday, but wasn't sure since it had been a week since she had nursed. I used to bottle feed goats as a little girl, I guess it is coming back to me. Just pulled out the pictures for my kids the other day. 


So do you all think she can't stand because she is weak?


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Most likely, although it could be white muscle disease (that's what the selenium/Vitamin E is for) or weakness from a bad worm infestation, or weakness from coccidiosis (that's what the CD&T vaccine is for, partly). There are other possibilities, also.

If you can't get to a feed store, keep trying to get milk down her. Try warming some a little bit and putting it in a pan, if she absolutely refuses the bottle. Also try feeding her a little bit of rolled oats (the old-fashioned kind). Definitely try to get some live-culture yogurt into her, too. 

I know all of this stuff sounds like a lot, but I'm afraid you may end up losing your baby --- and she really needs a vet, as it's tough to diagnose stuff over the internet, sigh. You're right -- three-day weekends can be really bad. Seems like things always happen when everything is closed!

Kathleen


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## TennesseeMama23 (May 10, 2006)

Pammielu said:


> This is alot to take in. I have no idea what breed she is, been trying to figure that out. The guy that I bought her from said she is old enough to eat, I asked him how old she was and he didn't know. Said he just got her a couple days ago. She had a tag in her ear, assuming maybe he got her at the stock barn. I watched her nurse another doe right before I got her. It wasn't her mother. So she has been alone for too long, with no mommy.
> 
> I have tried to bottle feed her, and she is not having it. I will continue to try. I also put some in a bowl. She just turns her head. I will not be able to get anything you mentioned until TUESDAY! Everything closed. I checked her eyelids and they are pale, not real pale, but pale with some pink.


I agree with everything BJF said. But, I think it is very important-top priority- to get some milk in this goat, asap. She is weak because she is NOW starving to death. Force the bottle into her mouth and kinda squeeze her jaws together on it. (I like human baby bottles-with a big x cut into the nipple- to start them out on) It sometimes helps to make a sucking sound while you do it. Don't feed her milk replacer. (take her temp to be sure she doesn't have an infection)


2nd- BoSe (rx) and Vit b (tsc or coop) 

3rd- worm her with something good like ivermectin or cydectin

4th- treat for cocci 

5- Get a new vet-yours stinks

I know it is overwhelming. The breeder took advantage of you--you made a bad decision. Just try to think about one thing at a time. First thing get milk into her-then go to the next step.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

TennesseeMama23 mentioned something I was thinking about but wasn't going to mention yet. Hopefully your baby makes it, but if she doesn't, and you go to replace her, don't go back to the flea market! It sounds like you could be right that the doeling had gone through the auction before the flea market -- she has been under incredible stress! First run through the auction and probably separated from her mother there. Then taken to the flea market, probably hasn't had any proper food since she was taken from her mother, and sold to you. It's no wonder she's sick -- it would be amazing if she didn't get sick!

Next time, look around and find a breeder in your area. You may pay more for your baby that way (or you may not -- I don't know what the flea market guy charged you), but you will be able to minimize the stress, and either get a kid shortly after birth to bottle-raise (when it's much easier to get them onto a bottle) or wait and buy one who is already weaned at the proper age (should be at least twelve weeks old, and some wait longer than that). You'll also have a local goat raiser to mentor you and help with emergencies like this, should one arise (and I guarantee, with goats, emergencies will arise!!). They should be able to help you figure out a worming schedule, teach you to trim hooves, make sure your kid is disbudded, show you how to give shots and help you with a vaccination schedule... there's a lot to raising goats and keeping them healthy!

Keep us posted on your little one.

Kathleen


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## Kittikity (Oct 21, 2004)

Getting her from the flea market might not have been the best of things.. But it's great that you are trying to do your best for her and are trying to get the information you need to help her.. I don't understand how that guy could believe she's old enough to be on her own.. Yeah, she may be able to eat a little food.. But she still needs that super nutritious milk to help her grow.. He didn't even know how old she was.. How can he say she's old enough? People like that make me very angry.. You are doing what you can to help her.. Be proud of that..


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Kittikity said:


> Getting her from the flea market might not have been the best of things.. But it's great that you are trying to do your best for her and are trying to get the information you need to help her.. I don't understand how that guy could believe she's old enough to be on her own.. Yeah, she may be able to eat a little food.. But she still needs that super nutritious milk to help her grow.. He didn't even know how old she was.. How can he say she's old enough? People like that make me very angry.. You are doing what you can to help her.. Be proud of that..




I was very disgusted by the time I left there. I didn't know that's how animals are treated. He said she has plenty of teeth and can eat on her own. Aren't goats born with teeth? I couldn't leave her there, I thought I would "save" her and now I am killing her. Oh my, I am going to try to give her some more milk. I guess I will be up all night again.


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## Kittikity (Oct 21, 2004)

You are not killing her.. The person that took her from her mother too early started that.. You are trying to save her.. You may not succeed, there is always that possibility.. Just keep trying to get the milk into her.. That's the first thing.. If you can squeeze the bottle, keep doing it that way.. Squeeze some in her mouth, allow her to swallow it, then squeeze some more..

Something I was told today.. Goats can give up easily but showing them that you care and that you're there for them can work wonders.. Just be there for her and do what you can.. Even if she doesn't make it, she'll know you tried..


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

Pammielu said:


> I was very disgusted by the time I left there. I didn't know that's how animals are treated. He said she has plenty of teeth and can eat on her own. Aren't goats born with teeth? I couldn't leave her there, I thought I would "save" her and now I am killing her. Oh my, I am going to try to give her some more milk. I guess I will be up all night again.


I know you're doing the best you can :goodjob: .


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## HilltopDaisy (Feb 26, 2003)

Just be careful that you don't "squirt" the milk too much, as you don't want it going into her lungs, and make sure the milk is whole milk, and warm.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

I just came in from feeding her, and I managed to get an ounce in her. The first half I was squeezing and her swallowing. The second half ounce she actually sucked some. She should know I care, I am already sooo in love with her. Something special about her. As I was holding the bottle in her mouth I kept talking to her and kissing her head, at least she has to know I love her. How often should I "force" feed her? That is what it feels like anyways. Her little belly was just grumbling...


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## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

I know nothing about goats but I can get a lot of fluids down a foal by using a syringe with the end cut off and made bigger on the concrete. You can also take the calf manna and make a paste out of it with the warm milk. Always use the syringe from the side so if it squirts to fast it just goes out the other side.


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## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

Grumbling tummies are active tummies. I would think that that would be a good thing. I would try to feed her as often as you can until she gets some of her energy back. Is yogurt good for goats? All of my foals get vanilla yogurt. They learn that when I come with that syringe that that is a GOOD thing!


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I know it's very over whelming & frustrating & it sounds like you love her very much already. I sure hope she comes around for you soon. I would try to get her to eat a little yogurt to help get her tummy back on track from not having milk, etc.(like strawberry or raspberry flavored), also if you have any Pepto bismol you can give that to her for the scours(runny poo). I don't bottle feed my babies so I can't tell you at 4 weeks how many times a day to feed her but probly more than normal since right now your only getting an ounce in her at a time. How much does she weigh? That will help someone else figure out amounts & how often to feed her. 
Does she seem to be getting any stronger & walking yet today?


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Backfourty said:


> I know it's very over whelming & frustrating & it sounds like you love her very much already. I sure hope she comes around for you soon. I would try to get her to eat a little yogurt to help get her tummy back on track from not having milk, etc.(like strawberry or raspberry flavored), also if you have any Pepto bismol you can give that to her for the scours(runny poo). I don't bottle feed my babies so I can't tell you at 4 weeks how many times a day to feed her but probly more than normal since right now your only getting an ounce in her at a time. How much does she weigh? That will help someone else figure out amounts & how often to feed her.
> Does she seem to be getting any stronger & walking yet today?


 

Sorry I have to use quotes so much, I forget what I am answering half way through. She does not have runny poo, which I have learned is called scour or scours? That only lasted one morning, a couple days ago. So can I give her just any yogurt? How much? In a syringe? I plan on bringing her in tonight and feeding her as often as I can through the night. Thank you all so much. I was at my wits end. Pam


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Oh yeah, not sure how much she weighs. I will weigh her when I bring her in.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I would try a berry flavored yogurt since all mine like just about any kind of berries anyways & would probly just start her out with an once or 2 if you can get her to eat it OK. I would probly make sure she has access to some alfafa hay or hay that she is used to getting too and a little grain in a dish if she decides to eat a little of that too. Mine don't always eat alot of grain at that age but they try.
It's so scarey when they are sick at such a young age because they can die soooo fast, I think her problems started when the breeder took her away from her mom & no milk, after that who knows at the auction barn or flea market, poor little thing. I sure hope you can help her.


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## deetu (Dec 19, 2004)

Do you know any goat people in your area that would have a kid feeding syringe? You can tube feed her a couple of times to get her strenght back while still getting her to nurse. If they have nutri-drench that would be a plus too.

See if someone is in 4-H, they usually have the supplies. I know it's kinda late already but it is worth keeping that kid alive.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

Forgot to mention that Fiasco farms wesite has alot of Good imformation for all stages of goats, but you've probly already seen it. Just in case I thought I'd mention it.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Just finished feeding her again, she actually drank from the bottle herself. Very slowly and weakly, but she drank another ounce. I will continue feeding her throughout the night. Wish I had found you all a week ago....


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Where are you located? We may have someone near you!


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

Good job! I'll keep my fingers crossed that she continues to improve.

Janis


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Rose said:


> Where are you located? We may have someone near you!


I am in Southeastern Ky, right on the border of TN, VA, and KY. I haven't found many goat people around here.


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## Kittikity (Oct 21, 2004)

I'm so glad she's drinking now! That's a very good sign.. Shows that she wants to live.. Maybe an ounce is all her poor tummy can handle right now..


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## Steffiej (Jul 7, 2007)

If you have a tractor supply store near you, they're going to be open tomorrow, and would have the things you need.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

no tractor supply near me. Closest one is in Knoxville, tn which is a couple hours away. We are going to my In Laws tomorrow, the vet I am gonna call is their neighbor and friend, hope I see him out for a friendly conversation. If not, we are going to have to wait til Tuesday when things open around here. I tried feeding her one more time and she is drinking better each time. She chews it more than sucking, but she is swallowing so I know she is getting some. I had a long conversation with her, and told her she is going to be just fine, no dying allowed here. I haven't weighed her yet, she is laying down sleeping, so I didn't want to disturb her.


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## Kittikity (Oct 21, 2004)

What are you going to do with her tomorrow when you're gone?


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Keep at it -- you may have to feed her every hour through the night. Is there anyone who can help you -- take a shift, so you can get some rest? 

Nutri-drench is the other thing I was trying to think of earlier! Glad someone mentioned it -- I was trying to remember everything that might help, and I knew there was something I was missing!

Definitely get some yogurt down her as soon as possible. If she's had scours, been on antibiotics, had her food changed drastically (it's very bad for any ruminant to have their feed changed abruptly, as it throws the microorganisms in their stomachs off -- usually kills a bunch of them and that can kill the goat), all those mean she's badly in need of re-introduction of good microorganisms to her gut. That's what yogurt has (or pro-bios if the feed store was open and you could get some). A large syringe would be the easiest way to get it into her but you could try a spoon. Just be careful about getting your fingers into her mouth, because they can bite hard with the back teeth!

Do you have any vitamin E capsules? That's another thing I really recommend she gets just as soon as possible. 

When she has recovered a bit, maybe you can post a picture, and we'll see if we can tell you what kind she is!

Kathleen


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Kittikity said:


> What are you going to do with her tomorrow when you're gone?



I do not plan on being gone no more than 2 hours, she will be in her house. Feed her before I leave and when I get back.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

The vitamin E, can I get that like at walmart or somewhere that I know will be open. And also, maybe I can get some Alfalfa, Is that right. I know they have some of that. I also have some yogurt here, I will try that now and see what she does. And as far as her biting me, I have had my fingers all in her mouth, lol. She is the sweetest, most trusting baby! I guess that is why she has stole my heart.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Pammielu said:


> The vitamin E, can I get that like at walmart or somewhere that I know will be open. And also, maybe I can get some Alfalfa, Is that right. I know they have some of that. I also have some yogurt here, I will try that now and see what she does. And as far as her biting me, I have had my fingers all in her mouth, lol. She is the sweetest, most trusting baby! I guess that is why she has stole my heart.


Yes, Walmart would have the vitamin E in their supplements section. If they have alfalfa, it's probably pellets rather than hay. She might eat the pellets better if they are broken up -- they are pretty hard. Or get a small bag of rabbit food -- it's mostly alfalfa, and I don't think there's anything in there that would hurt her. The rabbit food I have (for my rabbits) is a smaller pellet than the alfalfa pellets I used to get for the goats, and would probably be easier for a baby to eat.

She most likely wouldn't intend to bite you -- the times I've been bitten, I'm sure it wasn't their intention to hurt me, I just had my finger in the wrong place at the wrong time! 

I sure hope she recovers and does well for you. Have you named her yet?

Kathleen


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## crazygoatgal (Jan 15, 2008)

How is she doing this morning? You are truly her saviour and she is going to be a spoiled rotten little when you get done with her. She will have you wrapped around her little hoof, at least I hope so.


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

crazygoatgal said:


> How is she doing this morning? You are truly her saviour and she is going to be a spoiled rotten little when you get done with her. She will have you wrapped around her little hoof, at least I hope so.


I was thinking the same thing :cute:


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

This morning she is not better. She can not stand at all, but she is still eating about an ounce at a time. Don't know what else to do. I am trying not to give up on her, she seems to not have given up yet. Hopefully I can get her to make it until Tuesday! 

Her name is Baaabs. I named her after my friend of 20 yrs plus. That was my first real uh oh when I took her to the vet. They never asked her name, just had her down as goat.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

test post.....


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## crazygoatgal (Jan 15, 2008)

Pammielu- love the name! This is only a suggestion. Maybe you should take her with you(in a crate) and try to feed her every half hour. See if you can dissolve some probiotics in her milk bottle. It sounds like she is just so weak that you just have to keep that milk going. Can you get any goat milk from a store or is there someone around that has goats? I know my stores have an organic section with goats milk, but its like the Parmalat stuff. Its in a cardboard box in the non frig section. Good luck!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm having trouble posting UGH! you need to get C&D Bactern - Antitoxin injection into her. Not C&D/T. Antitoxin will work faster. The neigbor vet should have it or call the emergency phone number that should be on your vets answering machine. Since she is not doing better this morning I don't think you can make it 2 more days...like the other poster said any 4H people or livestock neigbors that can help??? keep us posted I will be thinking about her all day


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Pammielu said:


> This morning she is not better. She can not stand at all, but she is still eating about an ounce at a time. Don't know what else to do. I am trying not to give up on her, she seems to not have given up yet. Hopefully I can get her to make it until Tuesday!
> 
> Her name is Baaabs. I named her after my friend of 20 yrs plus. That was my first real uh oh when I took her to the vet. They never asked her name, just had her down as goat.


That doesn't necessarily mean anything. I know she's a pet to you, but goats are livestock, and most people don't name all their livestock, so don't take offense at that. 

Have you got any yogurt down her yet? And I would get the Vitamin E as soon as you can -- it's just possible that her problem does include white muscle disease, and the Vitamin E will help with that pretty quickly.

Kathleen


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

I have got some yogurt into her. Last night I gave her a couple bites, but this morning I filled a small syringe with 2 tsp anf she took it pretty easy. So how much more should I give her? Also, hubby is on his way home with vitamin E. I just took her outside to get a little sun, and she is trying to stand up. She is taking the bottle a lot better, but still not taking more than an ounce. I feed her every hour or less. And I didn't leave her today, stayed home with her. I don't know what my husband will come home with, I told him capsules so I could squirt it in her mouth. Do I give her just one? Thank you all so much for thinking of my little princess. LOL I have been calling her that for days now, too many boys around here, I was ready for a little pink! My last four animals have been boys, and also my last two children are boys! Going to go check on her now...Pam


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## crazygoatgal (Jan 15, 2008)

I did the same thing with the "Little Princess" name. I just couldn't think of a name for a particular little doeling one year and she acted like the sweetest little princess that you have ever seen. Well, guess what her name is now? Yup! I guess you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know the answer to that one.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I would give her more yogurt if she will take it...I don't think you could really over dose her on that.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Pammie, on the Vit. E capsules, squirt one into her mouth twice a day for at least three or four days. It's starting to sound like she might have a chance! Good going!

Kathleen


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

So glad to hear she's doing better!


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Another update. I don't think she is going to make it through the night. She is so so weak now, and not eating alot. So I have been feeding her with the syringe. At least I can make sure she is getting some. Last feeding was almost an hour ago, and I fed her 2 ounces. Keep your fingers crossed for us!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

oh no! I hope and pray she makes it


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## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

I am sending jingles to you both. All fingers and toes are crossed. Cathy


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

I think her time is up. I hate to say that I am giving up, but I think she has. That look is gone in her eyes. I am very sad. And I am dreading the next time I go check on her, or the next. So, guess I will go shed some tears and sit with my mastiff, Dante. :Bawling: He always makes me happy. I will let you all know what happens next. Thanks for being so helpful and thinking of us. 



BTW: I have not given up on my goat herd. Soon I will find another little girl, a healthy one from a breeder. Maybe I should start researching what breed I may want. I grew up with Nubians. I have time to figure that out, I have a hole that has to heal some before I start digging another one. Thanks again, Pam


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

i'm very sorry you have to go through this.
i hope you will find lots of time to research about goat management before you get another one.
this kid might never had a chance from the beginning. so very sad.i can not understand how it is possible to sell animals at a flea market?


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

susanne said:


> i'm very sorry you have to go through this.
> i hope you will find lots of time to research about goat management before you get another one.
> this kid might never had a chance from the beginning. so very sad.i can not understand how it is possible to sell animals at a flea market?



You would think it would be against the law to take a baby away from its mother too early. I mean if you think about it this man got her from the stock barn when she was 3 weeks old. Who knows when she was taken from her mom. That is a shame. By the looks of him, I am sure he didn't make sure she was fed, and a goat isn't going to just let another baby nurse. She did look so pitiful and sickly compared to the other kids, I guess that's why I took her. Should have known better is all I am going to say. What really made me mad, is I never seen that she had an umbilical cord until days later. It was cut so short, on purpose I'm sure, the only way I found it when I was rubbing her belly. That's when I freaked out and thought she should still be nursing. Shows how well the vet looked her over. Oh well. I am going to go check on her now.


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## goatkid (Nov 20, 2005)

I'm so sorry you have to be going through this. Infant goats go through the sale barns all the time. Mostly, they are intended for immediate slaughter, or are brought in with their dams and then get separated in the process of the auction. A friend once picked up a couple of doelings for me that were less than two weeks old. They were immediately started on the bottle and fed pasteurized goat's milk. They did very well. One I sold at about two years old and the other I still own. She went on to become a champion Grade La Mancha. I no longer buy auction goats. It's too much of a risk, nor do I send to auction anything too young to be weaned. I know our hearts go out to the runts and otherwise frail looking animals, but when I'm in the market for any animal, I choose the healthy, strong ones. I hope your baby makes it, but if she doesn't, know you tried your best and she was lucky to have you.


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

Pammielu said:


> I think her time is up. I hate to say that I am giving up, but I think she has. That look is gone in her eyes. I am very sad. And I am dreading the next time I go check on her, or the next. So, guess I will go shed some tears and sit with my mastiff, Dante. :Bawling: He always makes me happy. I will let you all know what happens next. Thanks for being so helpful and thinking of us.
> 
> 
> 
> BTW: I have not given up on my goat herd. Soon I will find another little girl, a healthy one from a breeder. Maybe I should start researching what breed I may want. I grew up with Nubians. I have time to figure that out, I have a hole that has to heal some before I start digging another one. Thanks again, Pam


Unfortunately I know exactly what you're feeling. I was given a little runt boer goat by my cousin. We knew something was wrong with him, but I couldn't just leave him there because I knew what my cousin was going to do to him (his animals are animals...not pets like mine  ). We had Petrie for 2 months and the day he died I knew I wouldn't see him alive again when I left for work. I made him very comfy (in the back of our trailer LOL) and I dreaded opening that door when I got home. He had passed away and I was so sad. But, I at least gave him a chance at life and he knew we all loved him. Your little doeling has felt love and compassion from you over these past few days. If only all animals were that lucky.

I wish you lived closer....I have 4 little babies that I would love to find good homes for. I would GIVE 2 of them to you because I know you would do your best with them. You're not coming to Ohio anytimes soon are you


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## Kittikity (Oct 21, 2004)

Think of it as a learning experience.. You've learned lots of very useful information about taking care of a sick goat..


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Jyllie63 said:


> Unfortunately I know exactly what you're feeling. I was given a little runt boer goat by my cousin. We knew something was wrong with him, but I couldn't just leave him there because I knew what my cousin was going to do to him (his animals are animals...not pets like mine  ). We had Petrie for 2 months and the day he died I knew I wouldn't see him alive again when I left for work. I made him very comfy (in the back of our trailer LOL) and I dreaded opening that door when I got home. He had passed away and I was so sad. But, I at least gave him a chance at life and he knew we all loved him. Your little doeling has felt love and compassion from you over these past few days. If only all animals were that lucky.
> 
> I wish you lived closer....I have 4 little babies that I would love to find good homes for. I would GIVE 2 of them to you because I know you would do your best with them. You're not coming to Ohio anytimes soon are you






Actually,no, I won't be in Ohio anytime soon. But I do have family in Ohio. My parents always got their Nubians from a farm there. What part do you live in? Dayton is 5 hours away, that's where my aunt and uncle live. Thank you for the offer, I wish I could love them! Thanks again, Pam


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Kittikity said:


> Think of it as a learning experience.. You've learned lots of very useful information about taking care of a sick goat..


That was my last thought last night. BUT I woke up this morning and she was holding up her head looking for me! I would have guaranteed she would not be here this morning. Some time in the night, I just went to bed feeling defeated. Her milk is warming and I hope she eats good. Let's see what happens!


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

Pammielu said:


> That was my last thought last night. BUT I woke up this morning and she was holding up her head looking for me! I would have guaranteed she would not be here this morning. Some time in the night, I just went to bed feeling defeated. Her milk is warming and I hope she eats good. Let's see what happens!


Very encouraging news! :dance:


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Jeepers! What a roller coaster ride! I was holding my breath reading the posts. Is there any chance you can find some C&D Bactern - Antitoxin today? I'm glad she made it through the night


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

Pammielu said:


> You would think it would be against the law to take a baby away from its mother too early. I mean if you think about it this man got her from the stock barn when she was 3 weeks old. Who knows when she was taken from her mom. That is a shame. By the looks of him, I am sure he didn't make sure she was fed, and a goat isn't going to just let another baby nurse. She did look so pitiful and sickly compared to the other kids, I guess that's why I took her. Should have known better is all I am going to say. What really made me mad, is I never seen that she had an umbilical cord until days later. It was cut so short, on purpose I'm sure, the only way I found it when I was rubbing her belly. That's when I freaked out and thought she should still be nursing. Shows how well the vet looked her over. Oh well. I am going to go check on her now.


not at all against the law to sell kids early. i sell as early as two days old but i educate the buyer and would not want to sell a kid and have it starved for a couple of days because they don't know this baby still needs a bottle. it is not a good idea to buy an animal based on the cute factor without any knowledge. this is the best way for a disaster to happen and very often the price has to be payed from the baby with it's life.
i sure hope you will find the time and research what it needs to have a healthy goat beyond the baby stage.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

I am fully taking responsibility of what has happened to my kid. But she was sold to me under false circumstances in my opinion. I was told she was old enough to eat on her own, my fault for not knowing any better. When I brought her home I got her a bottle and tried to feed her, because I thought for some reason she should still be on a bottle. She would not have it all she wanted to do was graze and she also was eating her feed. I assumed the man was right. I took her to the vet, coming out of there not knowing anything more than I did going in. She had an upper respiratory infection, she gave her a shot of Nuflor, and she didn't want to do anything else until that cleared up. I was to bring her back tomorrow, which if she is still alive I will take her to my other vet of choice. I have done all and more than I can at this point. The vet said he would call if he made it back early enough and for me to keep him posted. So for those of you that think I done a terrible thing, I am sorry, maybe I did. But I have learned alot from this and that is what makes us human. I did not intend for this to happen, and you can be sure that it will not happen again. I have always been an animal lover and would never intentionally hurt one. My friends and family think I am crazy, or call me weird by the way I feel about animals. I have sure got alot of criticism over my goat. That is just me. I do not want you all to think that I am some stupid person that does not have a clue, I do. But still we learn something new everyday, sometimes just wished you could have learned it sooner. That's all I wanted to say. Thanks for reading, I have a goat to feed. Pam


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

Pam:

Being an animal lover myself, and not having a lot of common sense at times because of it, I tend to also gravitate to those animals that are the most needy. Unfortunately, I've also had the grief that accompanies the choices I've made.

I probably would have bought her, too.

I hope she pulls through for you and you have many happy years with her. If that happens, she will always be "special" to you. Either way, you have learned a lot already.

Don't get discouraged.

Janis


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

(((PAM))) You're doing a great job!


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Also think about what her life would have been like had you not bought her. No matter the outcome at least she had a chance.

Good luck and I hope she keeps improving.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Make sure that the yogurt you're giving her is active culture. Better yet, instead of yogurt get some Probiotics from the feed store.

To increase her energy, try goat Nutri-Drench OR, if that's not available at your feed store, ask for a cow energy/ketosis supplement.

If she is willing to eat grains and/or hay, provide it to her as well. Calf manna is great, if she'll take it. She should also have access to water.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

I think you are doing a great job -- let us know how she's doing this morning!

Kathleen


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## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

I am new too. I have been VERY impressed by the positive comments and advise. I used to be on a horse forum but everything you posted was attacked by negativity.

Your lack of knowledge let you "rescue" this baby. Those with more knowledge would resist the heartache that you are enduring. 

I keep sending jingles!!!!


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Tallabred said:


> I am new too. I have been VERY impressed by the positive comments and advise. I used to be on a horse forum but everything you posted was attacked by negativity.
> 
> Your lack of knowledge let you "rescue" this baby. Those with more knowledge would resist the heartache that you are enduring.
> 
> I keep sending jingles!!!!


This is true -- most of us with experience would never have bought a goat kid at a flea market, especially not if she'd already been run through an auction. So Pammie's inexperience has given this baby a chance, at least!

Kathleen


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

I've owned goats on and off for a few years and I still would have rescued this little girl  . Which is why I wear my heart on my sleeve when it comes to animals.


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## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

Pammielu said:


> I am fully taking responsibility of what has happened to my kid. <snip> I do not want you all to think that I am some stupid person that does not have a clue, I do.


I sure don't think that. I think you have done a wonderful job in spite of the obstacles. You OBVIOUSLY knew things weren't adding up, else you would not have sought additional advice here, after seeing a vet. Pats on the back to you! :goodjob:

I was so happy to see that she's still hanging in there for you. Every now and then, you win one. I hope that's the case here!

Prayers,
Anita C.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Thank you all for the encouraging words. I was feeling pretty good about how she is doing. I just fed her, and she is eating 2 to 3 ounces each time. And I was wiping her face and eyes, and noticed her eyelids are a bright pink. I know that has to be a good sign. But I would like to know how much milk should I be trying to get her to eat now? She weighs no more than 10 pounds. Still haven't officially weighed her. Her eyes are having some discharge from them now. I have the eye oinment the vet gave me. You all think I should use some of that on them now? I can not wait to get up and take her to the vet tomorrow. Long long weekend!


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## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

Yes - go ahead and use the eye ointment. I can't imagine that the vet gave you any ointment that would have a negative outcome. I use eye ointment on my foals at first sign of discharge or a reddish look to the eyelids.

I am soooo glad that she is doing better. I have been jingling for her all day!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

So....how is she this morning? (fingers crossed)


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

What a tough experience for you and that baby! You are both trying SO HARD. I hope the outcome is good, as I know this baby has full possession of your heart. Sending positive energy.

NeHi


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## crazygoatgal (Jan 15, 2008)

We are all rooting for you and your little g**l !!! I don't dare spell out the "g" word for fear of getting censored again. Has anyone figured out why ONLY I keep getting censored for the word g**l ? It kept happening on my post about my new twins born 5/24.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

She is still fighting this morning. Getting ready to go to the vet. I just hope he has positive things to say. She is trying her best to live. My mom did not call me all day yesterday, and finally I called her at about 8pm. She said she just knew she didn't make it, and didn't want to know. She came over and checked on her the day before, and she seen how bad she looks. BUT she is a fighter! And I am cheering her on, trying to encourage her to keep going. So I just hope all our hard work will pay off in the end. If not, all things happen for a reason I believe. So I will update you all when we return. They were fully booked and was squeezing me in, so I will probably be there a while. Thanks for all the jingles! Pam


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

Good luck!

This is a different vet, I hope, than the first one you went to?

Janis


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Janis Sauncy said:


> Good luck!
> 
> This is a different vet, I hope, than the first one you went to?
> 
> Janis



Oh yeah, different one. I only make a mistake once :nono:


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

Good for you.

I'll keep my fingers crossed and look forward to what the new vet has to say.

Janis


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

Good Luck. I hope this vet is a good one. Bad ones can scare you and make you nutty. 
I too would have taken this little girl even though I know better. I right now have a little boy curled around my back sharing the chair with me. I had to take him since he was in poor condition. Poor boy was so boney, still had his cord, was weaned too early and was infested with lice. I got him from someone I know which makes it worse. He has gained weight ( 5 pounds in a week!), lost his cord and is now parasite free. He looks better but not perfect and is a real sweetheart. 
So hopefully your doeling will keep fighting and get better. They steal your heat pretty darn quick. Also when she does turn around for the better, you should get her a friend close to her age. They do better with a friend which is why I have a little girl curled up at my feet!


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## TC (Jun 22, 2005)

Prayers for you and the baby, Pam. I think you are doing a wonderful job and I really hope she makes it.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

I agree about her having a friend. I have been trying to find breeders near by to no avail. Not particular to any breed so you would think I could find someone. I just want a small herd, 3 or 4, no breeding, no milking, no meat, just pets. So, any suggestions? Looks like I am going to have to drive a ways, but that is fine. I will see what this vet has to say, and then I will decide what to do. No matter what I am not giving up on my small friendly herd. Like I said, I got the goat for my great pyr puppy while he is little, so I do need another goat soon no matter what. But if she does not make it, I will feel horrible about trying again. I keep telling myself that if I was told how she needed to eat from the beginning all would have been good. Bottle feeding is no problem for me, I have nursed back many, many babies that no one thought would live. It's kind of my thing. My brother has even brought me a baby squirrel to rehablitate, he grown into a fine young man. So I am just keeping positive thoughts on my way out the door. I will update you all soon. Pam


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

If the vet you're taking her to has other goat patients, then he/she might be able to help you find someone.

You could also try your county extension office; they would have the names of goat club 4-H leaders.

There's also craigslist and freecycle.

Also, your local feed store. I used to work in a feed store and I sold many goats to people just walking through the door with the sole purpose of asking if we knew of anyone with goats for sale. That also worked well for my employer; people that bought goats from me would then buy the needed supplies from the store.

Janis


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

Pam, you can try Petfinder.com too! I see lots of goats on there.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I got my Gretta from putting a wanted add in the local paper. It just said "WANTED - pet goat" with my phone number. I got 3 responses from very nice people


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Just returned from the vet. And she is dehydrated, has cocci(spell?), and has a few worms. SO, I have to feed her 1 liter of electrolytes today, and 1 liter tomorrow, then I do 50/50 with milk for a couple days. He gave her a shot for the cocci, a shot of vitamin b, a shot of vitamin e, and gave her albon suspension. He told me she would have already been dead, of course, and since she seemed to be fighting I may have a chance of saving her. And they also asked if she had a name, and I got to say "yes, baaabs with 3 a's" So that was the best news I could have heard. Her lungs, heart, and stomachs all sound normal. She has a touch of upper respiratory infection. So far so good! :clap: Pam


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## TennesseeMama23 (May 10, 2006)

Do you know what the cocci shot was? Very curious about that, it's a new one for me...

Also I would not withhold milk for 2 days--I think that is a very very bad idea. (sorry to disagree with your vet, everything else seems ok)


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

TennesseeMama23 said:


> Do you know what the cocci shot was? Very curious about that, it's a new one for me...
> 
> Also I would not withhold milk for 2 days--I think that is a very very bad idea. (sorry to disagree with your vet, everything else seems ok)


I am not sure if this is the right one but it says ivermectin injection. and the electrolyte he gave her is Hydra-lyte, electrolyte replacement and nutritional supplement for young animals.


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## Sweet Goats (Nov 30, 2005)

That is wonderful news. Congratulations on all that you have done. 

I give you so much credit for taking this little girl not knowing anything about goats. I do not care what anyone has to say, you did the right thing and you hopefully saved her life. She is a Miracle baby. If you would of read up on goats before you took her she would for sure be dead.

Give yourself a pat on the back for all the you have done. 

I had to try like 5 different nipples before I found one that my doe would take.:bow:


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Pammielu said:


> I am not sure if this is the right one but it says ivermectin injection. and the electrolyte he gave her is Hydra-lyte, electrolyte replacement and nutritional supplement for young animals.


Just realized ivermectin is for worming, right? If so, what is albon?


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

Pam, the albon is for cocci. Sounds like your vet knew the right stuff to give this little baaaaby


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

Whoo Hoo!

Did the vet give you an educated guess as to her age?

Janis


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Great news!!!!:dance::dance:keep us posted!!!!


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

That sounds great, but my understanding is that you never want to dilute milk, this will keep the milk from curdling in the stomach and it won't be digested by the goat. I would give the electrolytes and milk seperate.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

southerngurl said:


> That sounds great, but my understanding is that you never want to dilute milk, this will keep the milk from curdling in the stomach and it won't be digested by the goat. I would give the electrolytes and milk seperate.



I actually was going to feed it seperatly. I don't like mixing anything in milk.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

I'm glad to hear the good news! It sounds like this vet knows a bit about goats, and actually cares about them, which is a very good thing!

Kathleen


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## Kittikity (Oct 21, 2004)

I always believed she'd make it.. Now I think it's a sure thing.. Congrats!!!


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Janis Sauncy said:


> Whoo Hoo!
> 
> Did the vet give you an educated guess as to her age?
> 
> Janis



He asked me how old she was, and I told him what the other vet told me and he he agreed that she is around 5 weeks. Oh and BTW, she weighed 9pounds 7 ounces. The other vet didn't even weigh her!


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

I sounds like every thing's on the right track now. Congratulations. You didn't give up (and neither did she) and you can be very proud.

When things settle down for you (and her), can you post pictures?

Janis


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Can someone tell me how to tell if she is still as dehydrated? I know you pull up the skin, the vet was pulling up her skin everywhere, last night I tried to do what he did to see if I could see any difference and I couldn't "find" all that skin to pull on. Is it how fast the skin goes back to normal? I hope this makes sense. It is early for me


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

"Is it how fast the skin goes back to normal?"

Yes.

That's good news that she's hanging on and improving.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I am soooooo glad this little baby girl sounds like she's going to make it Thanks to you, Have been very worried about her & checking your posts everyday to see how things were going. Best of luck and Oh, I love the name, how cute for a special baby goat!


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## crazygoatgal (Jan 15, 2008)

Just like "Backfourty" I have been checking the posts everyday to see how little Baaabs is doing. Whew, now I can breathe. What an ordeal "we" have all been through. Try not to do this to us again, O.K? We can't take it!! Seriously, I am so happy for the both of you and am so glad you are as sappy as I am and saved this little one from a sentence.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

This is just so great that you were able to get her through the holiday weekend and to this vet! I am so happy she found you :dance:


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Poor little thing, she is so small. She has some catching up to do!


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## oceanmist (Mar 21, 2006)

is the doe still alive?


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

oceanmist said:


> is the doe still alive?


Yes, she is still here. She is still weak, but hanging in there. She looks better, though yes she is small. I believe she is a boer mix. I will get a picture of her for you all as soon as I can get photobucket to work. I have a slow connection since we moved and it drives me nuts. I have so many pictures of her before she went down I would like to show you, but.....I am trying.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

I just got finished forcing some fluids in Baaabs, and I also gave her some milk. Everyone has said that goats will go down fast, and I think she is finally giving up. Since 2 hours ago, her eyes have sunken in alot more, and she is not caring if I wipe her mouth, that used to be the one way I could get her moving. Of course I haven't given up, but I don't know, it isn't looking promising again. Up and down is driving me insane. I will just keep going until she tells me different.


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## oceanmist (Mar 21, 2006)

Pammielu said:


> Yes, she is still here. She is still weak, but hanging in there. She looks better, though yes she is small. I believe she is a boer mix. I will get a picture of her for you all as soon as I can get photobucket to work. I have a slow connection since we moved and it drives me nuts. I have so many pictures of her before she went down I would like to show you, but.....I am trying.


you need to hydrate this kid or she is going to die

at 4 weeks she should never NEVER have been weaned

you need to stomach tube some liquid, probably water with electrolytes into her or possibly some milk, just not sure she could handle digesting the milk

stop worrying about posting pictures and get yourself educated about how to keep this goat alive, she must be getting hydrated NOW

sorry to be so harsh but for goodness sakes HELP her!

Misty


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Pam is helping her!!!! She is doing everything possible for this poor little goat and I believe she is in the best hands possible at this point! Just keep doing what you are doing Pam and and if she is meant to live she will. Big hugs to you


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

I just pushed 6 ounces of electrolytes and 2 ounces of milk. It was all she could handle. I am waiting, actually rocking my 2 yr old for his nap, and I will do it again. I am doing all I know to do.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

And as far as posting pictures, you don't see any do you? Not wasting time at all, tried once, oh well.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Could you ask your vet for a lactaed ringers setup or get one from Hoeegers so you can subq fluids to her. Just a large handful sized bubble up over her shoulder for her to absorb if she needs it, replace the bubble on the other side until she is better.

Using electrolytes on a small ruminant (and obviously your vet doesn't know this) is a diasaster. She has nothing in her rumen right now that is nutrition. Mixed with water it makes the milk run through the system unabsorbed.

Kids nurse moms or bottles and the milk mixes with the acidic saliva produced in the mouth and like if you add an acid to milk it curdles. In the stomach more acids mix with the milk and with the 102 temp it turns into a mass of curd. The 'whey' is absorbed into the blood stream and also becomes urine. The curd slowly makes it's way down the other stomach 'chambers' into the large intestine where more nutrients and more fluids are taken from it, in the small intestine even more until it comes out pellets. Anything orally that liuqifys this curd mass, means a kid who is scouring, a kid who is not keeping their body temp up and a kid who is not growing, has no energy and can't build blood so gets anemic and is dehydrated.

Stop everything oral except the sulfa for the cocci. And do another fecal to make sure the vet has the right dose of sulfa for you to use. He should have given you Corid to use for 5 days and banamine to calm the gut. 

Using a ringers setup subq, means only warmed milk in the mouth, it's really the only way of turning this all around.

Probiotics, just use a small amount on your finger and wipe it in the mouth will add beneficial bacteria to this depleted kid so she can curd that milk, you can also mix the probiotic paste with some rennet, even the junket rennet type to curd the milk for the kid.

Make sure she is pooping after every bottle, dehydrated kids will get constipated quickly use baby supositories after bottles. Vicki


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Sunken eyes has got to be a bad sign. I would listen to what Vicki has just said and follow it to the letter.


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## Sweet Goats (Nov 30, 2005)

PAM, you are doing a amazing job. Keep it up and yes do all that Vicki says she is amazing. 
Keep it up and we are all pulling for you and the baby. :goodjob: You are doing a GREAT job. Sometimes we can do everything and it is just not enough, and the lord takes them away. It sounds like you are ready IF it comes down to that.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Sweet Goats said:


> PAM, you are doing a amazing job. Keep it up and yes do all that Vicki says she is amazing.
> Keep it up and we are all pulling for you and the baby. :goodjob: You are doing a GREAT job. Sometimes we can do everything and it is just not enough, and the lord takes them away. It sounds like you are ready IF it comes down to that.


I second this wholeheartedly.....Vicki's experience and knowledge is awesome, I feel blessed whenever she responds to any of my questions...:bow:


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## Patt (May 18, 2003)

I just want to add my Kudos! You have done an amazing job sticking it out and keeping this baby alive! I am really impressed by how you are sticking to this and putting so much time, effort and money into this little goat.  I read through the whole thread yesterday hoping and praying your little doe would make it. 

Sometimes people only read a few posts and then pop in with a comment. Just let those go. Stick with the ones who have obviously taken the time to read the whole thread (like Vicki)!


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

I sent you a PM with my email address so you can send me your picture and I will try to post if for you. It alos has some info about goat kids that might be near you for sale. 
I hope your little girl is doing well.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Thank you Vicki! After giving her milk three times, she is already improving somewhat. She did not want me to wipe her mouth,and she is actually looking at me again. I reread your post slowly, and it all made so much since. I had noticed that she has not urinated much at all, now I know why, and she is scouring again. Hmmm... I just keep learning so much and I welcome it! So hopefully she will come back around again, and I will continue to give her milk only. So what I need to know, is how many ounces does she need? She is only 9 pounds. I have been giving her 4 ounces every 2 hours. As far as her dehydration, her skins goes back to normal pretty quick. Alot quicker than yesterday. But I also know that her eyes are sunk in because of dehydration. So, does it take alot longer for the eyes to recover, or is she still severely dehydrated? We are still fighting this battle, it's not over yet.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I've got my fingers crossed. Did you give her any probios?


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

4 ounces every 2 hours is wonderful. Just like if you were extremely ill and in the hospital they would not just be syringing water in your mouth the kid needs to be on an IV, it will instantly revive her systems. Since we can't do IV's at home when we are new, doing warm lactated ringers subq works nearly just as well, I use it that way myself. Once rehydrated she will feel better and can come around, it also makes the meds work better. For now, although being outside in the sun is great, no eating anything but bottles.

At 9 pounds it's hard to believe she is anywhere near 5 weeks old, so I would treat her like she is younger and put her back on bottles full time and then slowly introduce her to grain and some hay, she shouldn't have been weaned for months anyway. Her rumen if functioning isn't now so milk is best.

You should be commended for rescuing this poor thing and I would contact the person in charge of the flea market and turn them in for cruelity to animals. It's one thing to sell healthy bottle kids with info on bottle feeding but dam raised kids weaned early is criminal especially with no info.

As long as she is drinking and peeing and pooping she is fine, when one of these stops and a baby supository or enema doesn't work to get fecal material out, than you know it is time to say when. Vicki


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

fishhead said:


> I've got my fingers crossed. Did you give her any probios?


Yes, I did give her some yogurt today.


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

Oh, man. I've been gone all day and I wasn't expecting to log on here and find out she's taken a turn for the worse.

I'll keep my fingers crossed she makes a good turn around.

You're doing great.

Janis


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## pokyone42 (Mar 1, 2006)

how is you Baaabs?


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Her last feeding she ate 4 1/2 ounces. He BM was firmer, not runny. Her belly is so fat, looks abnormally fat, and now her back legs are too weak to stand. Yesterday I would get her up and let her stand and support her body across my lap. Today no such thing. So, I don't know what the outcome will be. I am just going with the flow at this point. Time to get the kids and hubby to bed. Goat is fed until 11pm then time to do it again. Until then I have 4 dogs, 3 cats, guinea pig, and turtle to feed. Whew...seems like my life revolves around feeding everyone, all day, everyday. But I know I wouldn't change it if I could! nitey nite all 
Pam


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

So how are things this morning Pam? (scared to ask - fingers crossed)


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

By the looks of her, I honestly do not know why she is still alive. I fed her 5 ounces and hour ago. She does not move, just when I feed her she moves her head. She only had one diarrhea episode at 1am, and nothing since then. At this point, for her sake, I think it is time. But she wants to drink her milk. So, I am just going hour by hour with her. Kind of not knowing what is right to do. Feeling defeated this morning, but no regrets.


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

We're still hanging in there with you.

Janis


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

oceanmist said:


> you need to hydrate this kid or she is going to die
> 
> at 4 weeks she should never NEVER have been weaned
> 
> ...



Way to go on reading through the whole thread before posting!


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## Sweet Goats (Nov 30, 2005)

OOOHHHHH, I am pulling for you. I hope she is able to pull out of this.


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## Patt (May 18, 2003)

Well this little goat has a lot of people pulling for her! Keep us posted no matter what the outcome!


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Is she warm enough?


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

You and Baaabs are so much in my thoughts....(my hubbys too, I'm giving him updates) I can't imagine how draining this must be for you, but it sounds like you are really handling it well. I envy your strength.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

I just wanted to give a little update for those that may want to know. I took her outside on my balcony, I thought maybe the smells and sounds might help her come around. And she did somewhat. She is eating actually pretty good. Well taking the milk really good. She will not hold her head up still. But I did notice that her eyes do not look as sunk in. Last night I could rub my hand over her eye sockets and feel nothing but the bones and a hole. Today I can actually see her eyes are coming back into the sockets. I hope that is a good sign. She just looks so bad, and weak. She is all bundled up and staying very warm. And still peeing and pooping, even though it is not normal. It is nap time already here, yeah! Just thought I would update you all, have a great day! Pam


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Thanks for the update. I think it is a good sign that her eyes look better...Keep up the good work!


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

Thanks for taking the time to keep us updated.

Janis


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## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

Pammielu said:


> I just wanted to give a little update for those that may want to know. I took her outside on my balcony, I thought maybe the smells and sounds might help her come around. And she did somewhat. She is eating actually pretty good. Well taking the milk really good. She will not hold her head up still. But I did notice that her eyes do not look as sunk in. Last night I could rub my hand over her eye sockets and feel nothing but the bones and a hole. Today I can actually see her eyes are coming back into the sockets. I hope that is a good sign. She just looks so bad, and weak. She is all bundled up and staying very warm. And still peeing and pooping, even though it is not normal. It is nap time already here, yeah! Just thought I would update you all, have a great day! Pam


Prayers for this baby. And prayers for Pam. You are phenomenal.

Anita


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## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians said:


> You should be commended for rescuing this poor thing and I would contact the person in charge of the flea market and turn them in for cruelity to animals. It's one thing to sell healthy bottle kids with info on bottle feeding but dam raised kids weaned early is criminal especially with no info.


Vicki, I couldn't agree with you more.

Anita


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## crazygoatgal (Jan 15, 2008)

My stomach is full of butterflies everytime I log on to this post. I don't understand how you are managing this rollercoaster of a nightmare! Your perseverance is commendable and your obvious love for this poor little will be rewarded somehow. My prayers are with you.


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## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

Any update? I keep thinking of you both. I keep thinking about a colt we had. His mother died the night after his foaling. I spent 5 days driving to get formula and a nurse mare. He was adorable. I noticed that his belly looked big and the vet came out and oiled him. On the 5th day he died in my arms - it turned out that he had no bladder and had gone septic. The vet asked me if the 1st vet had thumped him(thumped their finger on his belly) she did that to him and it sounded like a drum because his belly was filled with urine. 1st vet/same office had missed it. 

The only reason I am putting this here is because with all my work I gave that colt as happy as life as he could have had. He was warm and fed and had companionship. He was happy. From what you have posted you have done your best at giving Baaabs the same. I hope that she can pull through for you.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Pam, any news before we go to bed?


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

I don't even have goats and I hold my breath each time I open this post. I have willed one to live and it did, and lost one as well (foals). Both you and this baby are certainly strong.


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## sgian (May 26, 2008)

I've had two baby goats fade away this year. First one died with his head in my wife's lap. I think with the first his mother weaned him too early and one night he stayed out in the cold with his mother and collapsed, and with the second his mother wasn't producing enough while staying at my sister's, and we didn't know enough to intervene. 

Keep monitoring her temperature. We just use a regular digital thermometer rectally (that thermometer is used only for goats and gets sanitized with rubbing alcohol). I've been following this thread, but don't remember if it has been mentioned already or not. Normal range is 101 to 103. If the temp is low, use a heating pad or something to keep her warm. I haven't been able to save a goat yet whose temp dropped to around 90 or below, even when I've gotten them back up to normal afterwards.


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## goatkid (Nov 20, 2005)

I'm glad you got some good advice from Vicki. So many vets don't know that much about goats. Mine suggested electrolytes, too when a few of my kids had scours, but said for only one feeding. This year, all my babies get in their bottles is goat milk. You're dong a great job hanging in there with your little goat. I hope she makes it.


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## mamita (May 19, 2008)

Pam, I don't know a thing about goats, but I just wanted to tell you that you are a wonderful person. ((hugs)) I keep looking in to see how things are going and am just thinking of you and your little baby.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Pam, how are things going this morning?


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

No news = good news?

Janis


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## Sweet Goats (Nov 30, 2005)

Janis Sauncy said:


> No news = good news?
> 
> Janis


 I hope Pam is to busy feeding this little one to post. Maybe she is chasing her around the house? We are pulling for you.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Sorry for not updating you all. I have been outside digging a grave.  Yes, she finally gave up her fight. Thank you for giving me all the advice, and experience. I just have to look at this as a painful learning experience. I am taking my puppy to the vet today to make sure he is doing alright. I originally had an appointment for Monday, when he turns 9 weeks old. His training has been lagging since I have been so busy with Baaabs. So I am going to put all my time and energy into him for now, and let my heart mend a little before getting a couple of new kids, weaned kids, healthy kids. Can't be too too long, as Apollo needs to know he is a goat dog. Anyways, thanks again everybody! I will be lurking around here learning all I can from you great people. Pam


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## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

I am SO sorry for you Pam. I hate losing my babies no matter what "age" they are they are all my babies. It will make you much more aware of problems before they get to be such a BIG problem. 

She was much better off with you than where she was - it just is your hurt now. Jingles for you, Cathy


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## mamajohnson (Nov 27, 2002)

So sorry for your loss.
But you have learned a lot from it, and you already know that.
Good to spend time with the pup, sounds like you have a good plan.


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## Kittikity (Oct 21, 2004)

You did good sweetie..


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I'm sorry to hear that you lost her. It wasn't for lack of trying.


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

I'm so sorry, Pam.

You did great, though. Unfortunately, you were dealt a rotten deck of cards.

It's sad your first experience had to be such a bad one but at least, trying to look at it positively, you learned a lot and you found a supportive group of people who are here to help you in the future.

I will look forward to congratulating you the day you post here about the two (at least!) healthy additions to your family!

Take care.

Janis


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## CookingPam777 (Oct 16, 2007)

Jyllie63 said:


> Pam, you can try Petfinder.com too! I see lots of goats on there.


Or try a goat rescue adoption place


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Awww, I'm sorry.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Well, you sure did do everything for sweet Baaabs. It's so nice that she got to transition in loving arms rather than a cold, dark lonely barn somewhere. Or the back of a pickup or something. We all learned a lot from your experience, thank you for sharing it with us, even though it is very sad. :grouphug: So very sorry for your loss....


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## Sweet Goats (Nov 30, 2005)

OH Pam, I am really really sorry about the outcome, but you have to look at it like this. You have that adorable baby a bit if heaven here on earth before she was called up.

Also, It was a learning experience for all of us. I am sure that we all learned from this, she she did not pass in vain. :grouphug:

I have to agree, you have a beautiful puppy that needs your love now.


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## gerald77 (Aug 2, 2007)

oh i am so sorry.


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## mamita (May 19, 2008)

I'm so sorry for your loss. you were wonderful and did everything a person could do. I really admire you. (((((HUGS)))))


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## Patt (May 18, 2003)

mamita said:


> I'm so sorry for your loss. you were wonderful and did everything a person could do. I really admire you. (((((HUGS)))))


I agree!


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

that little goat went out knowing some powerful love. Not a bad way to go!

Bless you for pouring yourself into her. May all that love and care come back to you ten-fold.

I am sorry.


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Condolences. Paul


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## Rockytopsis (Dec 29, 2007)

Pam, I am so sorry for the loss of Baaabs.


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

Pam, I'm so sorry!


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## crazygoatgal (Jan 15, 2008)

cathleenc said:


> that little goat went out knowing some powerful love. Not a bad way to go!
> 
> Bless you for pouring yourself into her. May all that love and care come back to you ten-fold.
> 
> I am sorry.


I second that, Pam. I am so sorry. Her little life touched us all and her struggle taught all of us something. God bless you.


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## crazygoatgal (Jan 15, 2008)

I just pm'd you


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## Gunnie (Apr 28, 2008)

Im so sorry for your loss!


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

I just thought I would ask if I should have a picture of her posted? If you all wanted to see that strong willed baby or better off not seeing her? I know that maybe not seeing the face makes it not so much of a reality. So I just thought I would ask, let me know either way. I have had a couple offers to post her picture, but during the battle I just didn't feel it was right. So I am leaving it all up to you all, my goat friends I didn't know so many people were reading this. Today is the first day, I think, that I have payed attention to all the people that have read this thread. Amazing, how can I thank you all?


BTW, I will still need help posting the picture if that is what I decide to do, sorry. my husband went and signed up with a better internet provider today. So hopefully by wednesday I will be moving a lot faster.

Oh, My pup, Apollo, checked out more than perfect at the vet today! He has gained 7 pounds in less than 3 wks. He weighed in at 17.8 pounds. He will be 9 wks on Monday.

Pam (still smiling)


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

Pam, I would LOVE to see a picture of your precious girl! I'll be glad to post it for you if you want.


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## Zone (May 15, 2008)

Yes. Please post the pic.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Yes! I would love to see Baaabs  

I'm glad Apollo had a good vet visit...what kind of dog is he? I have a new pup too


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Minelson said:


> Yes! I would love to see Baaabs
> 
> I'm glad Apollo had a good vet visit...what kind of dog is he? I have a new pup too


He is a great pyrenees. What kind to you have?


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## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

Pammielu said:


> I am taking my puppy to the vet today to make sure he is doing alright. I originally had an appointment for Monday, when he turns 9 weeks old. His training has been lagging since I have been so busy with Baaabs. So I am going to put all my time and energy into him for now, and let my heart mend a little before getting a couple of new kids, weaned kids, healthy kids. Can't be too too long, as Apollo needs to know he is a goat dog.


Oh Pam! I got so wrapped up in Baaabs' odyssey that I forgot all about your puppy. What breed is Apollo again? Sounds like he's doing great! I wouldn't worry too much about not getting him on livestock at 8 weeks of age. The guidelines published for LGDs are primarily for true range dogs, those that must *avoid* the companionship of humans. Small acreage dogs - those who are also our companions - can usually be introduced at any age.

I am so sorry you lost Baaabs. My hubby likes to say that animals are given to us on loan from God, and some of the special ones get called home sooner. You did your very best for Baaabs. The road back was just a little too rough for her, so she is in a better place now. In her short little life, she fostered the education of many, as well as some lasting friendships. None of us are likely to forget her.

It's tough for us animal lovers to recognize that some people actually don't care one whit for the life of an animal. :grit: They think animals are just here to be exploited. We can only do our best to educate the ignorant (on the off chance that the person who sold her to you was just uninformed), or punish the truly cruel to try to prevent such future acts of cruelty. 

After a day or two of recovery, I'm totally with Vicki on attempting to track down the seller. That person needs to either be informed, or threatened with legal action to keep him from repeating this travesty. As a dog trainer who taught classes for years, my first reaction is to want to educate. But as a former police dispatcher married to a police sergeant (ret), we are also VERY big on enforcing existing laws. 

For those who don't care about the feelings of animals, that's the only tool we animal lovers have.

Bless you, Pam, for the gargantuan effort you put forth for this poor little baby. I would love to see her picture.

Hugs :grouphug:

Anita


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## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

Pammielu said:


> He is a great pyrenees. What kind to you have?


Oh cool! Asked and answered before I posted my msg. 

Here is a link to our crew:
http://www.gndt.net/craftons/petpics.htm
Anita C.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I am so so sorry for your loss Pam, It was such a struggle but so glad she had you even for the short time she knew she was Loved! we are all sure of that. Would love to see little Baabs picture and also looking forward to the day you get new goats & post their pictures here for us all to see! Big Hugs to you & your family!! 
Good luck with the puppy training too!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Mine is an Australian Shepherd. His dad is regular size and his mom is a mini. I think he is going to be on the larger size...he is growing so fast. We had a tragedy here on April 12th...lost our beloved German Shepherd (BoBo) to a horse accident. So I got "RockStar" aka "Rocky" to help with distraction and motivation. He is really a cutie..I got him at 7 weeks and he is 12 weeks old now. Here is a picture of him
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8db30b3127ccec4438f7a515a00000086100MZM2bloyYg9vPgY
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8da02b3127ccec3ba9f1d24b200000016100MZM2bloyYg9vPgY


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## TC (Jun 22, 2005)

I'm so sorry, Pam, you really did do great with her. It is always so hard to lose one.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

I was thinking about you all today, so I thought I would try to post a picture of my Baaabs. I hope it works. I know it has been a few days now, but I am still thinking of her. Here goes.....
















If that worked, I took this picture the day she went down.












And hopefully, this is Baaabs and Apollo out for some fun.


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## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

She was adoraaaaable! How your heart must ache.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

She was adorable and Apollo is as cute as can be too. You'll find another little sweet goat for your Apollo even though she or he will be different of course you'll love the new baby too. Good luck to you and hope to see you around here.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

ohhh I'm so sorry she is gone. What a cutie! I'm sure you miss her very much.
Apollo is darling!!! I hope you can find him a playmate soon  thanks for posting the pictures and I can't wait to see more when you get another goat...


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

Oh Pam...she was adorable! She reminds me of my Petrie :Bawling:


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Jyllie63 said:


> Oh Pam...she was adorable! She reminds me of my Petrie :Bawling:


She does look like Petrie...I remember that picture. Well, Baaabs, Petrie and my BoBo are happy with no pain and playing together in heaven. (BoBo loved baby goats and was very gentle with them)


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

She was definitely a cutie. Boar/Nubian cross?

Apollo is adorable, too.


Janis


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## BethW (May 3, 2007)

Jyllie63 said:


> Oh Pam...she was adorable! She reminds me of my Petrie :Bawling:


Jill, I was thinking the same thing. Sweet, sweet Petrie is probably romping around with Baabs right now...where nothing ever hurts and the meadows are lush and green

Pam, she was just precious. Glad at least her final days were with the sense of safety and love that you gave her.


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## Kaitlin (Aug 3, 2006)

Sorry for your loss. She was a lovely little thing.


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## crazygoatgal (Jan 15, 2008)

BethW said:


> Jill, I was thinking the same thing. Sweet, sweet Petrie is probably romping around with Baabs right now...where nothing ever hurts and the meadows are lush and green
> 
> Pam, she was just precious. Glad at least her final days were with the sense of safety and love that you gave her.


I lost it good by the time I got to this post!!!!!! Oh, she was so adorable and her pic really made her real to me not just a story or a problem to solve. I would've scooped her up so fast if I had seen her at that flea market. I wish you could show her pic to a judge and get the bas***d prosecuted. By the way, I never cuss--thats how mad it makes me!!!!!!!!!!! OK, I stopped crying now.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

I followed this thread, and I really hoped that she would make it. I am so sorry for your loss, although her stay with you was short on time, it was long on love. You did good.

Kayleigh


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