# Are knitting machines worthwhile?



## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

Awhile back at a yard sale for a whopping sum of $2, we acquired an "ultimate Sweater Knitting Machine". It is an old version of it, with a black knitting head not the new purple ones, if that matters. Here's a similar one on Ebay: Ultimate Sweater Machine. It kinda works, sorta, although it seems pretty limited in what it can do. If you use an aran weight yarn, it knits okay. It only makes a stockinette stitch with any alacrity, though. Anything other than stockinette and you can almost knit faster by hand. It also is hard to recover from mistakes, but that could just be from being unfamiliar with it.

I really like the idea of a knitting machine and those old antique sock knitters look like an absolute hoot, but so far the reality of this vintage "Ultimate Sweater Knitting Machine" has been less than I'd been hoping for from a knitting machine. Is it just this particular knitting machine or are all of them somewhat like this? 

Is there a more versatile one out there? One that will do more than stockinette? Do it well and easily? 

I spin yarn from lace weight to super bulky, will that require a plethora of knitting machines to deal with the different yarn weights?

Are knitting machines worthwhile? I have an outlet where I can sell knit things so I really want to ramp up production. Knitting by hand is very slow, if the items can be made faster, they can be sold at a more attractive price since by being hand knit, most of their cost is in time and not materials - even though I'm using really high end materials. Yet, the items should also be well made and worthwhile, not a cheap sort of manufactured thing. Is there a knitting machine which can make nice things quickly and relatively easily?

Does anyone have any experience with knitting machines?


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

I used to have a designer knitting business and my machines were very well used, but the most useful tool was my Hague linker. They aren't cheap, but I can knit a lot faster than I can sew seams and it made beautiful top-stitching for neckbands. After that my most used machine was my standard gauge Toyota KS901 with ribber, lace carriage, intarsia carriage, tilt stand and extension bars. With this I could knit, purl, cable and knit lace, Fair Isle or stranded patterns and intarsia. Of course they don't make them any more, but the Silver Reeds are pretty much the same. I also had a Brother bulky machine and ribber. It could do the same as the Toyota, except for the lace, but with bulky yarns.

If you are serious about ramping things up I would look at a second hand Toyota (as long as you can get a local shop to make repairs when needed) or a Silver Reed. The ultimate sweater machine types just won't give you the same quality or versatility. If you don't want to invest that much ($1,000 would be a good start), then please, for the love of knitting, hand knit the rib and then hang the work on the machine, it will make a huge difference in the finished product.


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

I've been thinking of hand knitting the ends of scarves, putting them on the machine for the body of the scarf and then crocheting an edge on the long sides to keep the stockinette from curling inwards. It still then ends up with a scarf that has a right side and wrong side which doesn't work really well for scarves. At least, IMHO. 

I'll go check out the Toyota and Silver Reed and maybe make another attempt or two on the "Ultimate Sweater Machine". 

Basically this knitting machine thing seems to just be hooked needles going in and out, sliding in grooves in a bed. Are ribbers the same thing but with the needles opening downwards? Maybe I should make a knitting machine, it seems something that could be done if one wanted to spend a bit of time on it. Although, I don't know how the ribber part works, it's always easier to build something if you know how it is supposed to work.


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

hotzcatz said:


> Are ribbers the same thing but with the needles opening downwards?


Yes, pretty much, but the carriage runs along both beds at once - that would be the tricky part to recreate I think.


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

I have a couple knitting machines and the Ultimate Sweater Machine is one. This year, I upgraded to a Studio 360/260. Very neat. Anyway, the USM is very good at certain things. When you get really good at it, projects will go very fast but it is just a plastic knitting machine that will only do so much...but I love it!!  I made mittens, hats, hot pads. blankets, pillows, scarves, sweaters, shawls, booties (adult and baby), baby blankets, a purse, hmmm..what else? I knit fast and seam fast, but have been using this machine and it's older version (Incredible Sweater Machine) since the mid 90's. The Studio 360/260 is a beautiful knitting machine!


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

Excuse me if I'm talking too much, but I do love knitting machines. If you stick with it, I have a TON of patterns and I share  Handspun doesn't do well in the USM unless it is perfect and I mean absolutely perfect. My machine loves Red Heart and Simply Soft yarn the best.


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

Aloha Raccoon Breath,

Ah, I do seem to actually have the "Incredible" Sweater Knitting Machine and not the "Ultimate" Sweater Knitting Machine but other than different pictures on the box and a different color of machine head, they seem pretty much the same beastie. Probably the marketing department wanted to upgrade their product even though it wasn't visibly changed, but anyway.

Oh, handspun might be the problem, then. It's about the only yarn I have around here except for the commercial spun angora/Merino/silk, that is spun up to sell at one of the local stores in town but folks pretty much cleared that all out for Christmas. Time to go shear the bunnies! But, still, there's not a lot of commercial yarn around here.

Interesting tidbit - I was searching to see what a "Studio 360/260" looked like and found this web page: http://www.aboutknittingmachines.com/KnittingMachineInfo.php somewhere near the bottom of that page is: 

[HR COLOR="purple" WIDTH="60%"]
Finally, there is a another hobby machine called BOND "The Incredible Sweater Machine" which I would NOT recommend under any condition. You will see these sold all over the place and for very little money because they are not made well and were ill conceived. If you do start out with a "hobby" machine, pay a little extra for a used Studio/Silver Reed LK150-140 or a Brother KX350 or KX400, or even a PASSAP VARIO hobby machine. They actually mimic how an actual knitting machine works, are well made and when you do upgrade to a full metal bed knitting machine you probably will still keep this machine as most people do, and if you sell it they hold their value.
[HR COLOR="purple" WIDTH="60%"]

Hmpf! Not very encouraging but at least maybe that means the "incredible sweater machine" isn't a true knitting machine at all? It seemed better than the plastic circular toy knitting machine we found once at a different yard sale. Maybe we just need better yard sales around here.

Since you have an USM as well as other knitting machines, is there a huge difference between the ISM/USM and a "real" knitting machine?


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

Aloha Raccoon Breath,

Ah, I do seem to actually have the "Incredible" Sweater Knitting Machine and not the "Ultimate" Sweater Knitting Machine but other than different pictures on the box and a different color of machine head, they seem pretty much the same beastie. Probably the marketing department wanted to upgrade their product even though it wasn't visibly changed, but anyway.

Oh, handspun might be the problem, then. It's about the only yarn I have around here except for the commercial spun angora/Merino/silk, that is spun up to sell at one of the local stores in town but folks pretty much cleared that all out for Christmas. Time to go shear the bunnies! But, still, there's not a lot of commercial yarn around here.

Interesting tidbit - I was searching to see what a "Studio 360/260" looked like and found this web page: http://www.aboutknittingmachines.com/KnittingMachineInfo.php somewhere near the bottom of that page is: 

[HR COLOR="purple" WIDTH="60%"]
Finally, there is a another hobby machine called BOND "The Incredible Sweater Machine" which I would NOT recommend under any condition. You will see these sold all over the place and for very little money because they are not made well and were ill conceived. If you do start out with a "hobby" machine, pay a little extra for a used Studio/Silver Reed LK150-140 or a Brother KX350 or KX400, or even a PASSAP VARIO hobby machine. They actually mimic how an actual knitting machine works, are well made and when you do upgrade to a full metal bed knitting machine you probably will still keep this machine as most people do, and if you sell it they hold their value.
[HR COLOR="purple" WIDTH="60%"]

Hmpf! Not very encouraging but at least maybe that means the "incredible sweater machine" isn't a true knitting machine at all? It seemed better than the plastic circular toy knitting machine we found once at a different yard sale. Maybe we just need better yard sales around here.

Since you have an USM as well as other knitting machines, is there a huge difference between the ISM/USM and a "real" knitting machine? I've been thinking it would just be the difference between a machine that can do ribbing and a machine that can only do stockinette stitch.


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

Aloha  You can call me Missy if you want. People do complain a lot about things. ha ha You'll never know unless you give it a try. Don't get discouraged. You only paid $2 after all so you're already money ahead. USM's are better than ISM's but both are plastic. They are better than those toy circular machines though. They are no where near as good as the "real" machines but they are a start for those of us who would like to try the out for a less expensive price. Can't beat $2! Seller must have been one of the frustrated people who tried to learn and gave up. lol You'll find a lot of complaints about them and probably someone will pipe in here. I'm not saying they are wrong. They can be tough to learn especially if they don't have the instructions or video and even if the kit has everything, many give up. Heck, plenty give up when trying to learn to crochet and knit too. The first time I tried, I got frustrated and put it away. Then, I was on sick leave .. onset of rheumatoid arthritis .. and needed something to do. I sat down on the floor, hooked the bed to the coffee table and learned to make a sweater. There were mistakes all through it but it was beautiful! And then, I sewed the torso up like sleeves by accident. My husband still laughs about that. I can make a sweater now in an hour or 2. I like making the little things the best. Just this last week, I crammed in a bunch of crafty time for gifts and have 6 hat/mitten/scarf sets, 2 pot holders, ..can't remember what else right off hand. A ton of stuff was made though and my hands are very sore. I would have never been able to get it done hand knitting or crocheting. OHHH..I made a bunch of Christmas booties. They are super cute. Anyway, I can use the ISM, the USM, and the big kid knitting machines. I love them all. I'd give my left ear lobe for a Gearhardt sock machine!! 

To give you an idea..you can see what the carriage looks like on your machine. It's plastic and not too complicated. On the Studio, it looks like a complicated piece of machinery. The 360/260 is one of the very neat older machines that people seek out. I got a ribber with mine for under $100 total so I was thrilled. I got a really great deal. 

You already have the machine. Get yourself some 4 ply worsted, use the #3 keyplate, wax it up real good (use parrafin if the kit doesn't have it or silacone (sp) spray across the bed works like a dream), learn to cast on and go back and forth making a big square. Then, you'll see the magic in these machines. They can do a whole lot really fast, but they can't do the fancy things the nicer machines do..but they do a lot and it's fun.

Do you have the instruction video?


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

Bond website with free patterns

http://www.bond-america.com/projects/usm_proj/usm_project_index.html

Here's a series of instructional videos on youtube. Sorry but I didn't check them out real close. Internet is running slow tonight. 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNWebe-enM4&feature=c4-overview&list=UUm2iBTXxr-GeW_QVLLljhzw[/ame]


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

In the video, I've made all of the afghans, the fuzzy mohair and then the tweed sweater (girl sitting on the ground), the purse, pillows, table runner..can't remember what else. The maker of that intro video has a series of instructional videos.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I have a mantra that I have come to utter repeatedly during those times when creative inspiration rolls out faster than my fingers can move.

It is, "_be_ the knitting machine......_be_ the knitting machine......._be_ the knitting machine......."


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

If I only had extra arms (hands) and looked more like an octopus, all hands working, smoke rising, and then I would be a serious knitting machine. Would I actually be faster though since all sweaters would need several extra sleeves? Pairs of 2 gloves and mittens would become a set of 8.


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

He'e (Hawaiian for "octopus") sweaters, eh? Good thing they probably don't need them, trying to yarn bomb an octopus would be a project of futility, IMHO. They are very squishy critters. Although, they got enough suckers, if you could wind the yarn around a sucker maybe you could get the sweater to stay put? They keep changing colors, though, haven't a clue which color would work best for a he'e sweater.

The qiviut yarn folks in Alaska, Oomingmak, have patterns that could be knit on machines. They say their scarves are hand knit but the only patterning stitch they seem to use is stockinette with a yarn over so I kinda wonder. It is a great set of patterns for a knitting machine but if I were hand knitting a scarf, I'd want a pattern that would look nice on both sides. 

The stockinette on the knitting machine also seems to really want to curl the edges. Is there a way to keep the edges from curling in? Or just make a pattern where that's a good thing? I was thinking maybe a scarf would be a good thing to start with. I did knit up a couple of scarf ends, I was thinking of maybe figuring out how to transfer them on the machine and then knit the middle of the scarf with the machine. Then I needed the yarn they'd been knit from to finish another project so the project never got finished. 

I've also found that mistakes are almost impossible to recover from on the machine. Is there an easy way to fix mistakes?

I dunno about "be the knitting machine" wouldn't that limit you to stockinette stitch? I want a knitting machine that can make something similar to hand knits, but perhaps that doesn't exist?

Yeah, Missy, Santa didn't bring me a Gearhardt sock machine, either! Drat that fellow!


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

Qiviut...sigh!! I want a musk ox! I was researching soay sheep, the ones with the fiber like qiviut. Yum. 

I'd wonder about the qiviut scarf too. I've noticed many people call things handspun, hand knitted, or handcrafted when a portion of the project is. Mohair cinch cord is really expensive. I was dissecting it so I could copy it. It was supposed to be handspun. Some of it is and some isn't and sadly, the staple is an average of 1 1/2". For the price, I expected more.

The ways to keep the machine knitting from curling are ribbing, knit or crochet along the edge, or rotate the work. Knit a square for example, then do a couple rows of waste yarn, then rehang the knitting facing the opposite way. Or, Make a few big rectangles for a blanket. Lay them down with knit showing to the front every other rectangle and sew together that way. Then, I'd crochet or knit around the edge. It can be ribbed if rehung also. For your scarf idea. You could knit the center first and have waste yarn at the top and bottom to hold the stitches you want to work with later. Or, you could rib the top, then pick up the stitches on the bottom and hang them on the needles and rib that either at the beginning or end of your project..doesn't matter when. There should be tools in your kit to help hang stitches and also a latch hook. When you make a mistake, pull the stitches out down to the mistake and latch hook it back up correctly (working from the back). To rib, you could knit 8 rows then every 3rd row, pull the stitches out and latch hook back up to form the rib. You could make a hat knitting the ribbing in the beginning, then knit the hat and at the top, you could bind off the stitches or you could run yarn through all of the open stitches. Leave that. Sew up the side then pull the yarn at the top tight to close up the top of the hat and done. The curling can be controlled. 

"I've also found that mistakes are almost impossible to recover from on the machine. Is there an easy way to fix mistakes?" 

Who told you that?? Machine knitters all over the world are rolling their eyes right now  In the case of a scarf or hat, you can fix most mistakes. Tear the stitches out down to the mistake and latch hook back up. Once you start getting into fancy stitches, cables and lace, correcting mistakes will depend on the mistakes location and how bad you want to do it. You'll learn to watch your work and catch them early just as you would in hand knitting. 

"I want a knitting machine that can make something similar to hand knits, but perhaps that doesn't exist?" It can but it does it differently but I guess the answer depends on the project and the machine. Learning to use a knitting machine, whether this one or one much better is learning a new skill. They can shoot you into a new direction with knitting. But, machine knitting and hand knitting are two entirely different things much link hand spun and commercial spun yarn are different. 

You know..people say those sock machines have a learning curve. So do the flat knitting machines. Once you understand how they work, how to work them and what they can do, you'll fly. Many people get frustrated with the sock machines. It's important to realize you are learning a new skill and will need the time and patience to go with it for a while. People who use flat knitting machines are catching onto the circular ones very fast. Maybe this can be a stepping stone for you. Or, maybe you'll say to hell with it and sell the thing on Ebay. lol


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

I found this on the Bond website:
_"Problem: Mistake made or too many rows knitted."

"Solution: Just rip out the mistake row or extra rows. Be sure to unlatch the first stitch, which is usually a bit tighter than the others. See your instructional video on how to rip out a row."_

Here's a video, Fixing A Dropped Stitch

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH6Cu8o86vE[/ame]

I know what you mean about losing it all and I have. Cuss words have echoed through my house as things like that happen. Let's say there's a stitch 20 rows down you need to fix. Identify the hook that holds that stitch. Push the hooks around in all the way forward and make sure you have plenty of weight at the bottom of the hem. If you dont, the yarn could bubble loosely on the hooks. That will hold the stitching in place. Rip the stitches out down 20 rows, then stitch back up from the back with your latch hook. Make sure your machine is tightly clamped to the table so it doesn't come loose and fall. If the knitting moves forward on all of the hooks as you are working, leave the latch hook hanging in the stitch you made it to to hold it, go around front and push all of the knitting to the back of the fully extended hooks. Make sense? It takes practice and patience. Fingers crossed for you


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

I used "power" words on it and it still tangled up and jumped off the hooks and snarled at me. Maybe it was the making the weight less part that was the problem. I didn't want it so tight on the hooks and then, well, it wasn't so tight on the hooks anymore. Especially since it wasn't on the hooks anymore. Frequently, I can see what needs to be done but doing it seems to take about three hands to accomplish it! 

It's probably that learning curve problem. Well, that and hand spun yarn, too, no doubt. With hand knitting, I know how far things can be pushed before chaos rules, with this machine, that knowledge just isn't there. At least, not yet!

I need more yarn!


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

Oh, Hotzcatz, what a picture you painted! I'm sorry that you are having troubles but I am sure you will get the hang of it! 



> I need more yarn!


:bandwagon:

I am so right there with you.... 

Well... maybe I don't NEED more yarn.... but I always WANT more!!


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

I have an idea for a new smiley. Smiley holding a baseball bat beating a knitting machine to pieces. For now, this will work gre: and combine it with this :bdh: replacing horse for knitting machine. Finish with this :runforhills: . ha ha ha


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