# Ordering Bee Nucs



## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

I need to order 2 nucs for this year. I have 2 hives that are inactive at this time. I have the opportunity to buy 2 hives that are not even put together yet. Plus an older gentleman I know is looking at getting out of the bee business this spring also. His hives, as of last year, were active and he also collected local swarms. I am relatively new to bees. When I was young I followed my uncle around and asisted him with about 40 or so hives and learned a little then. 

My questions are: 
1) If I order nucs-do I pay for them at that time of order or when I go get them?
2) If the nucs are so-so in quanity and quality-do I have to take them if I have already paid for them? Are there different sizes of nucs? 
3) Will ordered nucs be free of parasites? I do not want to introduce them into my hives if they are of course full of parasites. And how would I tell that at the time that I am picking up a nuc? How would I know until I had them at home for awhile?
4) What if that purchased nuc dies off within a month of my bringing it home to a clean hive? Or in less time?
5) I realize that a swarm from our area would be the better idea as far as being acclimated to my area, but if none available, then which breed is the best to use for NE Indiana?


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## ChristopherReed (Jan 21, 2011)

1: sometimes yes, sometimes just a deposit, sometimes no, Depends on where they come from.

2: Maybe, maybe not, but you may not really know untill you hive them and see how they do. Order from a reputable place.

3: No, most commercial breeders may treat them, but they are never free of parasites, your best bet is to order so hygenic bees, Or from a reputable breeder

4: SOL, just how it goes. 

5: Not necessarily, It could be a hive somebody purchased from the south that swarmed. ANy breed can be good in that area, some better than others. Purchase them from a local, or northern breeder (Harder to do, but possible) 

Good luck,

-Chris

check out www.beesource.com Its a real good forum, and can answer most any question you may ever have about beekeeping.


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

ChristopherReed said:


> check out www.beesource.com Its a real good forum, and can answer most any question you may ever have about beekeeping.


Or, for the BEST bee forum go to http://www.beemaster.com :happy:

Of course, you could hang out here and make this a better bee forum also. :whistlin:


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

The one hive that is currently active I checked on just before we got this huge snowstorm. Snow is again coming down heavy and hard with a winter weather advisory as I type. 

Hive was active, at top of supers with the sugar on the top board. Looked like they were eating a little of that sugar but not much. I did notice a few dead bees outside, on the ground within a 1o' radius of the hive though. Live bees sitting in the reduced opening though. Is this a good sign? Dead bees this close to hive is ok?

I am wanting to build up to about 5-8 hives or so. Hives will be at the end of a large garden, orchard of 15 trees right now and flower beds. Plenty of water available from the lake. Hoping to continue to learn all I can about bees. I will visit the other forums that are posted but I do like this one so far. Very, very deverse forum.


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

farmerjohn said:


> I will visit the other forums that are posted but I do like this one so far. Very, very deverse forum.


I agree.

I stumbled upon it just a few weeks ago. And while I hang out on the other bee forum, I find this forum to be wide ranging and helpful in areas of interest, in topics other than bees. This is certainly one of the most vast and entertaining forums I have joined.

I just wish there was more bee chat...


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

I agree that we need more bee chat or "bee buzz'. 

Can you freeze honey, like in a freezer? Does it freeze in the comb in the hive in the winter? I was thinking about different ways to store the honey besides removing from comb and putting in jars. Can it be cold pak processed or pressure canned? Or can it be frozen in any type of container for the freezer? It truly does not matter to me but was curious what our options are.

When towards spring do you remove the hive opening reducer? 

Does it matter how high of a stand the actual hive sits on? Mine are up off of the ground on a stand then the hive stand and hive sit on top of this stand at approx. 20" off of the ground.


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## ChristopherReed (Jan 21, 2011)

Just throw the frames in a freezer, it will kill the shb larve, and wax moth larve. But honey itself doesnt go bad. So no need to freeze. Is best to extract and put in a jar. Keeps the bugs out.

Doesnt matter how high it sits, Up off the ground cuts down on bugs and makes the hive more defendable against animals. Cuts down on the bending over also... which is nice on the back.

Yea yea,.... Beemaster.... Pretty close to the same thing as beesource. ALot of the same people.. etc.. But Im on there too..

I like this site alot. For things other than bee stuff. Though I do like bee stuff on here too. I also like countrybynet.com Not to bad there either... 

-Chris


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

I was thinking about the actual storing of the honey and in storing it besides using a jar. I imagine it could be put into those food saver bags also, sealed and stored on a shelf or freezer? Then when you want to use some, cut off a corner and you have a pour spout. 

When towards spring do you remove the hive opening reducer?


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

If you talking about quart or gallon amounts, it's probably best in some type glass container so you could warm it back up if it crystalizes.

I would not open the reducer until, and even if, absolutely needed. Too many hives have a full inch or two high opening spanning the entire length of the hive. Which is not needed.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Since every one is saying we need more chat here but sending them some place else I'll do my part on the sending too.
This site is fairly new http://www.beekeepingforums.com/index.php You just might want to spell check and do a grammer check for all your posting there though as there is a spelling grammer cop member.

Our hives have about a 6 inch entrance all year long, summer winter doesn't matter.


















Storing honey in the freezer is not needed, all you need is a way to keep it from drawing moisture and dirt in the form of dust as it will do that. Freezing it will make it crystalize faster. Our honey is stored in a 250 gallon bulk milk tank modified to run warm water thru the cooling pipes instead of coolant. We also store it in food grade 5 gallon pails for what we know we will use thru the winter. We get the pails free from a local bakery, along with the lids which have rubber seals.

:grin: Al


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

farmerjohn said:


> 1) If I order nucs-do I pay for them at that time of order or when I go get them?


Depends. Most of the folks I know in Indiana who sell nucs expect payment at the time they're ordered.



> 2) If the nucs are so-so in quanity and quality-do I have to take them if I have already paid for them? Are there different sizes of nucs?


Nucs may be 4 or 5 frames. Many of the folks I know who sell nucs will allow you to inspect them before taking them home. Some have them inspected by the State Inspector prior to sale.



> 3) Will ordered nucs be free of parasites?


They should be healthy, but I'd never expect a nuc to be completely parasite-free. Bugs like varroa and SHB are nearly impossible to eradicate completely. 



> 4) What if that purchased nuc dies off within a month of my bringing it home to a clean hive? Or in less time?


Don't expect a replacement. Inspect the nuc at the time of purchase. You should see a healthy brood pattern and a laying queen. 



> 5) I realize that a swarm from our area would be the better idea as far as being acclimated to my area, but if none available, then which breed is the best to use for NE Indiana?


Indiana mutts. Dr. Greg Hunt at Purdue has been breeding bees for many years, trying to develop bees that are well acclimated to our climate and varroa-resistant. He's interbred Italians, Russians, Carni's, Minnesota Hygenics & others. Several Indiana beekeepers use breeder queens from Purdue. In your area, I'd recommend Dave Shenefield (Clover Blossom Honey) and Devon Howald (Majenica Creek Honey). A bit further north is Danny Slabaugh (Slabaugh Apiaries). 

Lastly, are you involved with the Northeastern Indiana Beekeepers? It's a good club in your area. I'm sure they could connect you to other local suppliers of nucs. Contact info here:
http://www.in.gov/dnr/entomolo/files/ep-indiana_beekeeping_information.pdf


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

Thanks. Do you find the bright colors advantageous? How do you keep the hives from sliding off of the wood or are you using the landscape timbers with the flat sides? IS that holes I see in the boxes?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Our hive colors are a result of being able to find stain that was oop's and only $5.00 a gallon or $15.00 for 5 gallons. We are not to fussy about the colors and the bees don't seem to be either.




























Yes they are flat sided landscape timbers. They are slowly being replaced with 2x6x8 foot stands with the landscape timbers making the 18 inch legs to deter critters from doing damage to flashings and other stuff way easier to work a hive with out bending so much too.










Yes those are 3/4 inch holes in the hive bodies. they provide venilation in the winter and extra entrances in the summer along with that extra ventialiton. The holes can be blocked with 3/4 inch dowels if the hive needs less entrances to guard or if you are going to move the hives. I just taper one end and tap it in place with the hive tool.

The intercovers also have slots in them for venting and an upper entrance. Has worked well for nearly 12 years for us.

 Al


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

How do you go about getting your hives inspected by the state? Is this a requirement?


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

Also, what is the State Inspector inspecting for exactly? Is this a free inspection or one that costs?

Nice looking countryside and the hives are really nice in colors. Certainly look like flowers in the field in there own right.

Are the hive bottom stands and bottom board also painted? Stained? Or always left as bare wood?


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

farmerjohn said:


> How do you go about getting your hives inspected by the state? Is this a requirement? Also, what is the State Inspector inspecting for exactly? Is this a free inspection or one that costs?


In Indiana, contact Kathleen Prough, the State Apiary Inspector. She'll arrange a time to come out and inspect your hives. No, it's not required. She's inspecting the health of the hive, looking for signs of disease, if the queen is laying a good pattern, etc. You'll learn a lot from watching her go thru your hives. And... there's no cost.

Contact info here:
http://www.in.gov/dnr/entomolo/2899.htm


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

Thank you indyPartridge. Contact was made to set up a time.


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

Now-what can anyone tell me about hives swarming. I understand the why and how but not the when. What do I need to know to prevent it or to minimize it. I have heard and read of people getting just a queen. I guess this is for when a queen in ahive dies but would it also be for ahive that swarmed? A new queen goes with the hive that is swarming right? What does a queen cost to purchase? 

If a hive can be put in an observation unit that is --as the ones I have seen-clear glass and lots of light--can they not stay in bright light all of the time? Why then in a dark hive box? Just wondering. It is really the bright light reflecting off of the snow here that has my brain thinking up silly things. They go out of a dark hive to a bright world. Glass would ahve it drawbacks but maybe plexiglas?


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

farmerjohn said:


> Now-what can anyone tell me about hives swarming.


Michael Bush has an excellent website. I'll refer you to his page on swaming. When you've finished that, click on "home" in the upper left and see all the other topics he has.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm



> A new queen goes with the hive that is swarming right?


The OLD queen leaves with the swarm. Sometimes a hive will cast multiple swarms as new queens emerge. 



> What does a queen cost to purchase?


Last year I paid about $20 for a locally-raised queen. (Shipping extra if you have her mailed to you.)



> If a hive can be put in an observation unit that is --as the ones I have seen-clear glass and lots of light--can they not stay in bright light all of the time?


Bees like the dark. Small observation hives of just 2 or 3 frames, that you may see at the fair, are usually very temporary. For larger ones, they are often covered when people aren't around.


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

This is from Michael Bush's site. This is about as clear as mud.

"The bees have been working toward this goal since last winter when they tried to go into winter with enough excess stores to build up in the Spring before the flow enough to cause a swarm that will then have the optimum chance to build up enough to survive the following winter."


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

farmerjohn said:


> This is from Michael Bush's site. This is about as clear as mud.
> 
> "The bees have been working toward this goal since last winter when they tried to go into winter with enough excess stores to build up in the Spring before the flow enough to cause a swarm that will then have the optimum chance to build up enough to survive the following winter."


Well, that is a mouthful! What he's saying is that the bee's natural instinct is to reproduce, and bees do that by swarming. They try to head into winter with enough excess food so that the can get a jump on spring, and start building up early, before there are a lot of nectar and pollen sources. The earlier they swarm in spring, the better chance the swarm has of building up enough to survive the following winter. The later in spring/summer they swarm, the less chance of survival.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

YUP clear as mud to me to and I've been doing it a couple of years.
There are several ways to control swarming most of which is just sort of doing a artificial swarm on your own. That includes doing splits of hives, and building nucs. 

When the first swarm leaves the hive it is the old queen that goes and the hive that stays gets a new queen. Any secondary swarms will have new queens.

Some states like Michigan do not have colony inspections. One part of the reason, the state didn't like paying for the hives destoryed or the ones inspected by shoddy inspectors that got deasesed.

We normally use our dark stain on the screen bottom boards. 

One thing I use the colors as sort of indicaters. Such as dark brown hives are full of drone comb so we raise a bunch of drones from that queen's traits to breed with the virgin queens we raise. All our double queen rearing nucs are also brown seems to keep the hive warmer in the sun shine there fore the queen cells. I've place a temp probe in hives in tha same yard for 24 hours and recorded as much as 10F difference in the hives in 24 hours. 

 Al


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

I wanted to thank all for the info. I have been unavailable to the use of the computer. Seems as I have a very bad case of tendonitis. Very bad. From fingertips to the shoulder and extremely painful even with pain pills. So I can only do a very little bit at a time because of it. Even sitting at the computer is painful. So I read when I can and can occasionally post. So wanting to be able to work with the bees. Saw robins this past week-good sign of spring a comming.


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