# Stone Home questions



## Wigglesdabum (Aug 7, 2011)

I'm tossing around alot of ideas lately about what type of home I want to build. I know that I want to be very involved in the building process, and basically build it all except for the foundation in order to save money. I have no previous building experience but have been leading alot over the past months. And I have about 4 years to gather all the information in the world before I begin building. The building would be approximately 1500 sq ft plut the attic. I have considered laying a slab foundation( the building will be located in the South East in the mountains. and then put up a SIP frame. SIP is the insulated ply wood boards 

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_insulated_panel)

Then I was considering putting up stone walls with the slip form method. The stone would be directly on the slab foundation and the frame would be inside that. I would stack the stones directly against the SIP in order to keep it plumb and to make sure moisture doesn't build up in a gap between the stone and wall. I would then put a conventional roof on top of the structure. I know this barely touches the tip of the ice berg but I want to see if any of you guys think this is a horrible idea and should go a different direction. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Wigglesdabum said:


> ....I would stack the stones directly against the SIP in order to keep it plumb and to make sure moisture doesn't build up in a gap between the stone and wall. ...


Unless it is in a location that never freezes this is a bad idea. Any moisture that does get between the rock and SIP will freeze and push them apart. Over time this will destroy the building. 

Instead place the rock using standard masonary practices. That would involve leaving a small cap and weep holes along the bottom to let the moisture out.

If you wish to build "outside the box" you need to first learn what is in the box and why it was put there.

WWW


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## Wigglesdabum (Aug 7, 2011)

wy_white_wolf said:


> If you wish to build "outside the box" you need to first learn what is in the box and why it was put there.
> 
> WWW


This is why I am here. Thanks for the info.


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## chefed (Jan 30, 2009)

I really like my Insulated Concrete Form or ICF walls; low noise, great insulation, windproof and probaly pretty earthquake safe. My exterior walls are 6 inch steel reinforced concrete and 15in thick total with the brick. It is something that can be self built and if done yourself would add maybe 10-15%. I contracted the ICF as I don't do well with carpentry stuff and did the HVAC, Electric and Plumbing myself to offset.
I have 2x the sqft and 1/4 the utilities.
Ed


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## salmonslayer (Jan 4, 2009)

We have a 1939 slip form Ozark stone farmhouse and we love it. It acts like a heat sink and is warm during the winter (once you get it heated) and cool in the summer and even in the worst storms we rarely even hear whats going on outside. I dont know much about SIP but I am not sure that would be compatible as some others have said due to moisture problems. 

This is our first experience with a stone house but I can tell you that we feel very secure in ours. We completely re-tuck pointed all of the mortar and replaced all windows and doors with new thermal insulated types and replaced the roof. We have a full poured in place concrete basement and I am confident enough now that I could build an addition if I wanted.

Good luck.


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## Durandal (Aug 19, 2007)

I'll be blunt. If you have NEVER done a stone house, I would suggest you sub it out to someone. I've been building stone walls and walk-outs and patios for years right now and while I would suggest that someone could read up and do a nice stack wall or a fire pit or even a stone grill set-up, building up stone walls is a little bit more technical yet STILL an art. I'd defiantely get some mason experience before attempting this. 

I would also suggest a different exterior if you are more concerned about using the SMIP stuff. I have never had any experience with these but they appear to be better for stone facade applications rather than a full out stone constructions.


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## Junkhound (Sep 14, 2010)

If i were younger, and going to build on a budget, i would look at compressed earth blocks (ceb). With the cinva-ram, you can make alot of blocks very inexpensively. Stabilized with portland cement they are extremely durable.
But they are alot of labor. Just another system to look at.

Junkhound


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

There are many factors in this situation.
About where are you located, that is one factor.
Another is time. Just how much do you have and how does that factor into the plan?
Then there is money.
Another could be assistance. Partner, sub, or alone?
Then factor in Mother Nature.
Don't forget patience.
Good luck, Gary


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## norcalfarm (Feb 11, 2009)

There is a good book on slip forms called _Stone House_, it doesn't require your typical stone masonry skills but is still very labor intensive. I would definitely try it on a shed or something small first as suggested. I would not mix stone with SIPS on the same wall. Instead why not do some walls in stone and others with SIPS, first floor stone, second SIPS etc?


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

salmonslayer said:


> We have a 1939 slip form Ozark stone farmhouse and we love it. It acts like a heat sink and is warm during the winter (once you get it heated) and cool in the summer and even in the worst storms we rarely even hear whats going on outside. I dont know much about SIP but I am not sure that would be compatible as some others have said due to moisture problems.
> 
> This is our first experience with a stone house but I can tell you that we feel very secure in ours. We completely re-tuck pointed all of the mortar and replaced all windows and doors with new thermal insulated types and replaced the roof. We have a full poured in place concrete basement and I am confident enough now that I could build an addition if I wanted.
> 
> Good luck.


I had been wanting to build myself a solid stone cabin for some time. Walls would be all stone, no wood interior on walls or anything. Wood floor over crawlspace. Never built a stone house just outbuildings and foundations for other people, never lived in a solid stone one. Heard horror stories of dampness at times during year and them being hard to heat. Does yours take more to heat than a comparable wood frame house? Dampness in regular summer? I understand its not going to be as efficient as some modern super insulated structure unless walls are extremely thick, but how would it compare to your average 2x4 stud frame house? How thick are walls on your house?

Alas at this point am wondering if I ever again would have the physical wherewithall to build stone structure. It is a lot of physical work. But as long as there is no rush and assuming I have few years left... maybe could get small stone house built before I die. LOL


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I saw a website by some stone builders up in the NW... they dug a deep trench, and filled it with a solid base of stone and cement, with two rows of rebar... an exterior stone wall and an interior stone wall, with a void between them, tied together every so often... the void filled with insulation. Without the insulation, it'd be an oven in the summer and a freezer in the winter.

I haven't done much of nothing on my 'new home' in almost two years. I do have some 18" walls of stone exterior and cement backing. On a hot day, the heat goes all the way through. Hadn't got to the point where I was above the walls, but I do know that I'll have to have a vapor barrier, and insulation. Interior stone walls? maybe... but insulation is a must...


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

I'd thought of double wall super insulated stone house. But that would take some incredible footings and twice the labor...

I guess only way I will ever find out for sure is to build something like a 16x16 one room solid stone cabin and try living in it just to see if its hard to heat. Dont like it, then it becomes storage. Would hate to put lot labor into building a bigger house only to find I didnt like it. There were sure lot real solid fieldstone houses in this area at one time. Probably cause there is a lot of fieldstone here and people use what they have. Saw old one with no windows out in a pasture when I was looking for land way back when. Could have been made livable and I liked the remote location. But alas land with it on not for sale. Few years later, I saw that a bulldozer had busted it up and just left huge pile rubble. Shame. Maybe they had problem with meth people, cant have any old remote unused buildings anymore without attracting meth people. 

And there were stone shell houses with wood frame interior. Not bad but I still dont think of them as a real stone house.

Also lot of faux stone houses, modern frame houses with this sort of cement tile siding made to look like stone. I still dont see point of that. If I want a stone house, I want a stone house, not imitation stone siding on a frame house. I saw one of those faux stone houses up close as they applied the cement tiles on outside. Interesting, and I guess if thats what you want, just about anything beats vinyl siding for looks.... And it does look kinda like stone from a distance.

I dont use air conditioner in summer for many years now, so everything is hot here, whatever you make house out of. You build in shade and open all the windows and do best you can with a fan. Stone, frame, old mobile home, pup tent, its all going to be hot and miserable.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

HJ, if you have enough mass in a wall, it can release all the heat during the night, and reabsorb it during the day... which means it can keep the cool in for most of the day. Before we had house dogs, that needed access to the outside, I'd keep the windows and doors open at night, close them first thing in the morning, and keep the coolness in the house, till around 5PM each evening. Shade trees help a lot.


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## snettrecker (Jan 27, 2006)

the book that I have "living homes" suggests using the sips for the inside, and slipforming rock walls outside of that. he ties all of it together. ​ I've been seriously considering this method. we are getting ready to close on 36 acres and are going to be building our own house on it.


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## Allen15 (Apr 18, 2013)

If you're serious about low energy costs to heat/cool the home, think outside the box by putting your stone or other (thermal) mass on the inside of the house, & putting your insulation, SIPs, etc., on the outside of it.

The mass on the inside will temper the climate on the inside of the house, and it will be much slower to heat up or cool down, but once you get it to a comfortable temperature, it will be easier/cheaper to maintain it for the life of the building.

Ask yourself if you're more interested in building it for a particular "look", or for a particular "performance".... Visible exterior stone walls may be pretty, but stone walls with insulation on the inside kinda defeats most of the advantages of having high-mass walls.


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

I have seen a lot ( and done a little) stone building around here, and most of it is not exactly slip form, but is somewhat easier and a lot quicker, once a guy has caught on. it may well be what you are reffering to as "slip form", but to me, slip form involves forms on the inside and outside.

This is done with only a form on the inside, and walls are built against the form. The outer face of the wall is kept the same distance from the form all over, and any space between the inner form and the stone is filled with a combination of rubble and concrete. It's actually kind of a cross between mortar and concrete, being pretty stiff and having some lime in it to retard setting, but also having some smaller gravel in it. 

The best of this is done around here by a fairly young couple. With the two of them working together, it goes amazingly fast, and the main guy applies the "mud" with a shovel, not a trowel. Our local stone is not layered or cutable, and is quite irregular, so he winds up propping some of the stone into the wall with chips or smaller rocks.

At a certain point he calls a halt, and they go back and clean up the stains and gobs on the wall, then proceed with another section. When the wall is complete, one can go to the inside and smooth up any defects and have a very nice slick interior wall.

This is not formal stonemasonry that others refer to, but it has it's own charm and i find walls made this way in some very old buildings that are still in great shape.

I STRONGLY urge anyone contemplating a stone wall to have a go at it before making any firm plans to do a lot of it. Also, get one of the mortor mixers that run on a drill motor, because hand mixing mortor is very hard work and the drill mixer will make child's play out of it.

I have always been very interested in stone masonry, but never had the time to get good at it. 

My father was a stone mason from an early age, and told me that the mark of a good mason was that he looked for a space that was the right shape for a stone, not a stone that was the righ shape for a space. That way, he only picked up a stone once, just before he laid it into the wall. If a guy picks up several stones and lays them back down before finding the right one, he hasn't caught on yet. That describes me......Joe


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Junkhound said:


> If i were younger, and going to build on a budget, i would look at compressed earth blocks (ceb). With the cinva-ram, you can make alot of blocks very inexpensively. Stabilized with portland cement they are extremely durable.
> But they are alot of labor. Just another system to look at.
> 
> Junkhound


http://www.earthcomegablock.com/

I met the owner when he gave a presentation at a green building seminar. 

Very interesting.....


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## Wanderer0101 (Jul 18, 2007)

When I was younger, stronger and dumber I used to make my living laying stone. It's real hard work and you're talking about moving TONS of material. Hard on your hands as well. Stone is also an awful insulator though if your mass is high enough it does become sort of a thermal fly wheel. Generally speaking, solid masonry constuction tends to be cold and damp. 

Having said all that, I love stone and the way it looks. If I was building what I really wanted it would be ICF with a stone facade, the best of both worlds.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Make sure you have a big stout foundation, takes a lot mor than just a e"slab" to hold up all that weight. My cottage was built as a carriage house to the big house next door. It is built from quarried limestone from a pit 2 miles away. Same size and style stone as the county courthouse, 1' thick. It was always damp and seemed cold. I built 2"x4" walls inside 3 of them and insulated well. It is very comfortable. Original old concrete floor with treated sleepers were added, 3/4" T&G plywood and then flooring. Kitchen and bath added along 1 side over a slab floor and conventional 2"x6" insulated walls....James


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Some years back, I saw a cool method in Fine Homebuilding for a small stone cottage. 

They built a form on the ground for the front, back, and gable ends out of something like 2x12" on edge. Then laid flat stone on the ground that took up about 1/2 the depth of the form....then called a concrete truck in and poured to the top of the form, using rebar in it, which later would be the inside wall.
Also laid wood strips in the concrete to later attach finish walls inside other than the concrete. Window and door openings were framed out in the form at the same time.

The ends of the form were made "finger jointed" with a pc of PVC pipe running horizontally thru each finger.

After the 4 sides were poured, they called a crane in, and stood the four sides up ( cast lifting eyes in the walls ), locked the "finger" corners together, and hammered a hunk of 1" rebar down thru the PVC pipe openings in each finger to lock the corner. Grouted the finger joints, and the joints in the stone on the exterior side, and started on the roof.

The gable ends were cast with a full gable, matching the roof pitch.

As I said, it was a small, simple 4 wall cottage, but the method was totally cool.


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