# No Hansel, Just a Greta Fairytale



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

One crisp winter morning in Sweden, a cute little girl named Greta woke up to a perfect world, one where there were no petroleum products ruining the earth. She tossed aside her cotton sheet and wool blanket and stepped out onto a dirt floor covered with willow bark that had been pulverized with rocks. “What’s this?” she asked.
“Pulverized willow bark,” replied her fairy godmother.
“What happened to the carpet?” she asked.
“The carpet was nylon, which is made from butadiene and hydrogen cyanide, both made from petroleum,” came the response.

Greta smiled, acknowledging that adjustments are necessary to save the planet, and moved to the sink to brush her teeth where instead of a toothbrush, she found a willow, mangled on one end to expose wood fibre bristles.
“Your old toothbrush?” noted her godmother, “Also nylon.”

“Where’s the water?” asked Greta.
“Down the road in the canal,” replied her godmother, ‘Just make sure you avoid water with cholera in it”
“Why’s there no running water?” Greta asked, becoming a little peevish.

“Well,” said her godmother, who happened to teach engineering at MIT, “Where do we begin?” There followed a long monologue about how sink valves need elastomer seats and how copper pipes contain copper, which has to be mined and how it’s impossible to make all-electric earth-moving equipment with no gear lubrication or tires and how ore has to be smelted to a make metal, and that’s tough to do with only electricity as a source of heat, and even if you use only electricity, the wires need insulation, which is petroleum-based, and though most of Sweden’s energy is produced in an environmentally friendly way because of hydro and nuclear, if you do a mass and energy balance around the whole system, you still need lots of petroleum products like lubricants and nylon and rubber for tires and asphalt for filling potholes and wax and iPhone plastic and elastic to hold your underwear up while operating a copper smelting furnace and . . .

“What’s for breakfast?” interjected Greta, whose head was hurting.
"Fresh, range-fed chicken eggs,” replied her godmother. “Raw.”
“How so, raw?” inquired Greta.

“Well, . . .” And once again, Greta was told about the need for petroleum products like transformer oil and scores of petroleum products essential for producing metals for frying pans and in the end was educated about how you can’t have a petroleum-free world and then cook eggs. Unless you rip your front fence up and start a fire and carefully cook your egg in an orange peel like you do in Boy Scouts. Not that you can find oranges in Sweden anymore.
“But I want poached eggs like my Aunt Tilda makes,” lamented Greta.

“Tilda died this morning,” the godmother explained. “Bacterial pneumonia.”
“What?!” interjected Greta. “No one dies of bacterial pneumonia! We have penicillin.”
“Not anymore,” explained godmother “The production of penicillin requires chemical extraction using isobutyl acetate, which, if you know your organic chemistry, is petroleum-based. Lots of people are dying, which is problematic because there’s not any easy way of disposing of the bodies since backhoes need hydraulic oil and crematoriums can’t really burn many bodies using as fuel Swedish fences and furniture, which are rapidly disappearing - being used on the black market for roasting eggs and staying warm.”

This represents only a fraction of Greta’s day, a day without microphones to exclaim into and a day without much food, and a day without carbon-fibre boats to sail in, but a day that will save the planet.

Tune in tomorrow when Greta needs a root canal and learns how Novocain is synthesized.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Thank you, got a good laugh


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

Obviously Greta Thrunberg didn't think things through very well !









Greta Thunberg - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Why are almost all the world leaders all in with Greta?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Greta just knows there is a difference between burning petroleum and using it in products that don't require it to be burned.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

No, I don't believe she knows that at all.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Greta just knows there is a difference between burning petroleum and using it in products that don't require it to be burned.


You always amaze me how you find some little thing to hang your hat on. 

If you are for it there will be one, miniscule, insignificant angle that sheds a light, however dim, on your activist, "feel good" agenda. 

It simply amazes me. Remarkable. 










A teeny weeny amount is not burned. How might that change the calculus when it costs a lot of money to get oil out of the ground and on the road? People might quit pumping it.

Plus, we cannot stop climate change. That is how the world turns


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Why no Hansel? Did he get bacterial pneumonia too?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

No solar either. Wind and hydro could be built with wood and hand tools.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> Why are almost all the world leaders all in with Greta?


I think you know why. 

Money


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> I think you know why.
> 
> Money


Right.

Exactly how will "they" (we) cash in?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> Right.
> 
> Exactly how will "they" (we) cash in?


I was in this business for nearly 20 years. The method has changed but the money hasn't. The "do gooders" won't believe me but that's all it is. 

I held my nose and spent their money because I believed it was for the greater good. I learned that it wasn't. Greta will figure it out one day too. 

Or she will ride the tide and get rich like the rest.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> I was in this business for nearly 20 years. The method has changed but the money hasn't. The "do gooders" won't believe me but that's all it is.
> 
> I held my nose and spent their money because I believed it was for the greater good. I learned that it wasn't. Greta will figure it out one day too.
> 
> Or she will ride the tide and get rich like the rest.


I think there are much bigger market movers or money changers than building efficiency


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

painterswife said:


> Greta just knows there is a difference between burning petroleum and using it in products that don't require it to be burned.


What gives you that idea? When has she ever said we need to find a sensible balance.

It is all or nothing with idealogs and zealots. Just the way it is.

Also, why on earth would grown adults take anything a sheltered teenager say serious enough to destroy world economies?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> I think there are much bigger market movers or money changers than building efficiency


Dont be so sure about that. DOE has been spending billions every year since the early '80's. In Texas, California and New Jersey since 2000 we have been spending private funds about 5 billion a year. All for building efficiency. Other states have followed suit. 

Now, Biden is talking Trillions with the Green New Deal. He has said he wants to redo every house in the country by 2035. Wont happen but that is what is slated to happen. It is an empty promise. 

Anyone with knowledge of the industry knows it is the best bang for the buck. It's more sustainable and cheaper. It will create less need for oil and cost the consumer less per month (_*as long as Uncle Sam pays for it and not them*_) Doesnt cost nearly as much in waste 20 years down the road either. Solar, wind and hydro need parts made from oil products. Then we have to dispose of them later and build more. 

Electric cars have to be built with petroleum products too. They will have to be disposed of someday or recycled. Batteries are petroleum products. 

But stop the tax credits and the private investor goes away. I worked DOE at first but got into private as soon as it opened up. Investor owned Utility companies paid us. Oncor, AEP, Entergy and Swepco. Austin and San Antonio are member owned utilities so they dont qualify. It worked so well Texas became an exporter in electric in 2004. We sell the savings to California and other states that cant keep up. But corruption keeps states like California from becoming electric neutral or an exporter. Too much red tape and money going into the wrong pockets. They have been at it as long as we have and still cant keep up. 

Corruption will keep the GND from working too.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

Hey, they can do mine first. I'm sure I'm not the only one in an old farmhouse.

We have only a few baseboards for heat. Maybe they will install a nice new furnace for us, then insulate, then new windows, then caulk and seal all the openings, then seal it to keep mice and rodents and air out. Then new doors. Oh, don't forget the new vapor barrier, then a new water heater.

Sweet. Lots of new free stuff. And it won't cost a thing because we all know free is free.

Then of course, it will all be prevailing wage, so it will be three times the freeness as it normally would.

Sweet. Though I would prefer to keep my original wood windows. I'm sure they could just put in a better heat system to make up the difference.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> Dont be so sure about that. DOE has been spending billions every year since the early '80's. In Texas, California and New Jersey since 2000 we have been spending private funds about 5 billion a year. All for building efficiency. Other states have followed suit.
> 
> Now, Biden is talking Trillions with the Green New Deal. He has said he wants to redo every house in the country by 2035. Wont happen but that is what is slated to happen. It is an empty promise.
> 
> ...


The proposed US carbon tax is over $100 billion per year









Would a Green New Deal Add or Kill Jobs?


A shift to renewable energy powered by a carbon tax would create millions of new jobs, but the amount of money it would return to U.S. residents in rebates could vary considerably




www.scientificamerican.com


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Good analogy, thanks for sharing.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> The proposed US carbon tax is over $100 billion per year
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They (the utility) will just shift that expense back to the consumer. Yes, I know AOC wants to give us back some of our money on tax breaks but it won't add up. Then in 5 or 6 years they will say it is not enough and take that away too.

Politicians are becoming speculative investors more and more each day.


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

I suspect the truth is somewhere between my wildcattin' grandpa and greta.

I grew up oilfield. Oilfield was my husband's job his entire career. We still have financial ties to the oilfield. That said, the company he retired from is now a premier energy company, not only doing fossil fuels but wind and solar and tide. All of them have their place.

But reduction in consumption is light years better. Grew up in an adobe house and man oh man what I would give to have that kind of house again!! Lived in the desert and cooled very nicely with a swamp cooler. Zone heating. All good.

Here we heat mostly with wood, love the very low electric rates so we can run the regular ac in the summer, but I got a clothesline up asap when we moved here and have one in the basement for winter. Backup heat is propane but we use very little.

I know some push polyester clothes as better for the earth than cotton, but properly produced cotton is not bad, just depends on how and where you grow it. My skin doesn't get rashes when I wear nonpermanent press cotton. So I wear it, and clothing lasts decades for me with proper care. Less drag on the environment. I remember and loved cotton mattresses, but with my arthritis I love a foam topper now.

We love our truck and our smallish suv, but both get waaayyyy better mileage than the little vehicles we used to get like our nissan truck or pinto station wagon. So you can still have the good life and save petroleum usage. We won't quit producing what you need for penicillan if you choose an electric car, lol.

Balance.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Greta just knows there is a difference between burning petroleum and using it in products that don't require it to be burned.


She doesn't know much.
She probably thinks wind and solar can replace petroleum.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> Why no Hansel? Did he get bacterial pneumonia too?


Hansel was finally recognized for the privileged source of the toxic white-centric patriarchy that he is. Like all other men, his bio-mass was turned into something much more important; sustainable, environmentally-friendly, non-gender/non-race specific ***** hats.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

HDRider said:


> One crisp winter morning in Sweden, a cute little girl named Greta woke up to a perfect world, one where there were no petroleum products ruining the earth. She tossed aside her cotton sheet and wool blanket and stepped out onto a dirt floor covered with willow bark that had been pulverized with rocks. “What’s this?” she asked.
> “Pulverized willow bark,” replied her fairy godmother.
> “What happened to the carpet?” she asked.
> “The carpet was nylon, which is made from butadiene and hydrogen cyanide, both made from petroleum,” came the response.
> ...


Brilliant!!!
😅😅😅😅😅🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Macrocarpus (Jan 30, 2018)

Greta reminds me of the stupid little girl who could believe that the fuzzy, long-toothed creature in her grandmother's bed actually belonged there. People who use children for propaganda are the filth of the earth.


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## Roy Gilbert (Apr 11, 2020)

HDRider said:


> One crisp winter morning in Sweden, a cute little girl named Greta woke up to a perfect world, one where there were no petroleum products ruining the earth. She tossed aside her cotton sheet and wool blanket and stepped out onto a dirt floor covered with willow bark that had been pulverized with rocks. “What’s this?” she asked.
> “Pulverized willow bark,” replied her fairy godmother.
> “What happened to the carpet?” she asked.
> “The carpet was nylon, which is made from butadiene and hydrogen cyanide, both made from petroleum,” came the response.
> ...


is a fairy tale


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## Roy Gilbert (Apr 11, 2020)

It is a fairy tale. I see it as a tacky political ploy that uses a teen girl as a foil. Oil is a very necessary commodity to our civilization. I feel safe in saying that too many are unwilling to accept and plan for the contingencies because oil is a finite resource ... I'll say it again ... "finite" resource.

Given this fact, I contend that we should be actively trying to nurse maid this resource. One of the best ways to nursemaid this resource is to make every effort to develop technologies that minimize our combusting this commodity and save oil for the oil needs that do not involve combustion.

Combusting oil and its derivations, creates problems, that some deny, for our life on this earth. This issue is made even worse when the situation gets politicized. We have a president who, without compunction, lies about his opponent's positions on the subject. Joe Biden said we should not frack on federal lands. He did not say no fracking whatsoever. The current occupant of the White House has no second thoughts about distorting Joe Biden's positions on this subject.

Bottom line is that we need reserve oil, as best we can, for its non combustible needs/uses.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Roy Gilbert said:


> It is a fairy tale. I see it as a tacky political ploy that uses a teen girl as a foil. Oil is a very necessary commodity to our civilization. I feel safe in saying that too many are unwilling to accept and plan for the contingencies because oil is a finite resource ... I'll say it again ... "finite" resource.
> 
> Given this fact, I contend that we should be actively trying to nurse maid this resource. One of the best ways to nursemaid this resource is to make every effort to develop technologies that minimize our combusting this commodity and save oil for the oil needs that do not involve combustion.
> 
> ...


No one is saying we need to produce more oil. We are saying that at this moment in time we need it. 

Same thing you said. 

There are those saying that in 2035 there will be no more oil production. That's The ones we are talking about in this thread. They are the ones acting stupid


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

That was probably what the good citizens of Venezuela were saying 10-20 years ago.

It isn't stupid to think that things can change, especially if the wrong folks get total power.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

It's nutty. But I figure total opposite thinking at least could improve the way we are a little bit.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

The last 4 years have been a total opposite. They did make things better.

We had no new conflicts, the middle east is settling down, the economy roared to historic world records, unemployment for all demographics was low, even after a pandemic the economy rebounded in record ways, Nato is paying its fair share, China is losing its grip on manufacturing; which helps other emerging economies.

That's just a tiny bit. I agree, if we keep going like the last 4 years it will erase all the wrong thinking we did for the last 3 or 4 decades.


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