# Two hives - gone. No idea what happened.



## BasicLiving (Oct 2, 2006)

We went down to winterize our hives today. What a complete shock. In August we opened every hive with the Dept. of Ag. guy - located queens in each. A couple were weak, but otherwise doing ok. 

In September we robbed honey - only took honey from 2 hives because the other 3 looked weak - but they did have some frames capped off. We just left them with the extra honey.

This month - 2 hives are completely dead. One was FULL of wax moths. It was a gross mess. The other had honey robbers all in it - lots of wasps mixed in.

What in the world happened in such a short period of time? We are shocked to say the least. Could it have been colony colapse? We have no clue. I think I'll call the Dept. of Ag. guy tomorrow and let him know, just in case.

A little bit of good news is that the one hive we knew was very weak is doing GREAT. We started feeding it heavy a couple months ago - it didn't have ANY capped frames in the food box when we started. Today all frames are capped and it looks very strong. We're still feeding it of course - and all others now too.

We also have about 8 frames of capped honey to process - yay! Didn't expect to get any more after we robbed last month.

We did find mites in all 3 of the surviving hives. 2 months ago, we found none. We put the Apistan strips in each of them. Also saw tiny dark poop spots on the porch, so we are treating them all with Fumagilin. 

Any thoughts on what happened to the 2 hives we lost would be appreciated. I really want to figure it out so we can prevent it again if possible in the future.

Thanks,
Penny


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

just an Idea but varroa mites can cause sudden queen death and prevent 
the natural replacement that they would normally acomplish.the mites spread that deformed wing virus which then prevents the queen from flying on her mating flight


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Just a guess here but ya'll are in a drought condition, have been for months now. Correct?
My guess is the girls looking for a sorsce of food stores started robbing the weaker hives. They go in and end up killing the queen and all the workers so the wax moths move in and make a mess. 
You told about several hives but didn't really say which ones died out. 
Were they the ones you took honey off of? Ones you were feeding?
I can almost bet it isn't CCD that got your bees. Go here and learn about CCD.
http://www.cyberbee.net/
It is the web site of the MSU bee program.

Next year ditch the apastan strips. Go with Mite away II. It is good for killing mites both the tracs and vorroa. Around here the apastan strips were so abused by lazy bee keepers the mites are resastant. Check mite is about as bad too.
Ya have to remove those strips after 42 days. Don't care if there has been a cold snap and the temps are in the 20 F, range they have to come out or the dose gets weaker and weaker building restance in the mites.

 Al


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## BasicLiving (Oct 2, 2006)

Hi Al - thanks for suggesting the Mite Away II - we'll definitely switch to that next year.

We did not rob honey from the hives that died. The hives that died had supers on them and there was honey in a few of the frames, but they had only capped off a couple of the frames - so we just left them alone and did not rob them.

We were not feeding those two because even though they seemed a little weak, they seem to be working on the supers.

That was about a month and a half ago. Yesterday they were dead as door nails.


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## CJ (May 10, 2002)

We lost a hive this year as well. They just... disappeared! The other 3 are doing great.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Were/are you in a drought?

 Al


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## BasicLiving (Oct 2, 2006)

Not sure if you are asking me or CJ, but yes, we are in a drought - not severe, but a drought none-the-less.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Question was to BasicLiving.
The drought does explan what happened to me. Simple case of nature having the fittest survive.

 Al


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## BasicLiving (Oct 2, 2006)

What could we have done differently? Started feeding them when we knew we were in drought? I really don't want to go through this again. What are the signs in the hives that we should start feeding them? Should we have known when they weren't producing a lot of honey in the supers?

Thanks,
Penny


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Signs are hard to read if you have never seen them before and put 2 and 2 together.
(1. honey being removed from capped cells. 
Since no nectar is coming in they have to use stored honey to raise brood.
(2. no honey is being stored above or around the brood. 
They are just bring in enough to raise brood and none to store for the future.
(3. A weak hive that isn't increaseing in population.
During times when they are running out of honey and no nectar is coming in many times the queen will stop laying or lay very little.

When you see the above signs start feeding. Make sure it is robber proof. Reduce the entrance, feed placed on the intercover and a tight hive body around it will help provent that.
These pickle jars were free from the local pizza joint.



















I get these 2 gallon pails free from a local bakery. save them from a land fill.Picture was taken for information only.




























Placeing the pail on a shim allows more bees to feed at once. Jars will some times require a shim so the outer cover will fit tight.
Feed till the girls stop takeing it. In the fall switch to the 2:1 mix rather than the 1:1 mix of spring.

Strong colonies could be a result of them robbing the weak.

 Al


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## BasicLiving (Oct 2, 2006)

Thanks Al - we're coming up on one year with these bees and I'm amazed at what all we DIDN'T know before getting them - and still don't know now. I have one gallon jars like you show above - we'll start using those. I've been using one gallon milk jugs, but they don't last long before developing leaks. 

When we got these bees our only real goal was to keep them alive the first year - and we didn't do such a hot job at that. I'm hoping we've learned from our mistakes and do better next year. It sure helps having you, Iddee, and the others on this forum to get advice from! 

Thanks a million,
Penny


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Thanks for the nice comments. I try to help as much as I can. 
I felt really bad when I was to get my first bees and when I read a post on another forum by a moderater, who told some one to buy two books, do a search on the internet and the forum before asking questions. I went and picked up my nuc of bees and when the fellow wanted to give a small plack to hang by the door that said beekeeper lives here I told him the first person to call me a bee keeper would get a punch in the nose. 
Told him we were gardners who had bees.
If you buy two of the right books on beekeeping you just about have all you need to figure out what to do.
But the girls don't write or read those books so many times they do things you can't find the answer to in a book.

 Al


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

alleyyooper said:


> Signs are hard to read if you have never seen them before and put 2 and 2 together.
> (1. honey being removed from capped cells.
> Since no nectar is coming in they have to use stored honey to raise brood.
> (2. no honey is being stored above or around the brood.
> ...


just wanted to add to this that sometimes when a hive is badly stressed
because of no food they will start pulling and canabalising brood this is
especially prevalent in spring when they get an early warm spell 
that encourages heavy brooding followed by poor weather.

so take special care in the spring to make sure they dont run out of food


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## BasicLiving (Oct 2, 2006)

You may remember that I was less than excited when my husband initially told me he wanted to get these hives. The first thing I did was start asking questions on this forum - and it was Al that spent so much time answering, explaining and coaching. He not only helped me get used to the idea, but through him I learned to really appreciate the bees. He has been a constant source of information - and the pictures are priceless! And Iddee jumped right in to help us understand a problem we were having with a hive early on - even going so far as to give me his phone number so we could talk on the phone. It meant the world to me

Taking the time to treat everyone with dignity and respect is something I really appreciate and try to do in return. Anyone with bees has been a New-Bee at some point. Books are great - but there is nothing like the experience of others to learn from.

I now love our girls and wouldn't take a million dollars for any of them. Losing those hives feels like losing something very precious to me. It has all been an awesome experience - and I thank the people on this forum for helping introduce me to it, putting up with my constant questions, and teaching me something new every day!

OK, ok - enough of the honey laded accolades ;-) 

Penny


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