# UGH! Eviction :(



## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

I'm ready for all comments, and I know now I SHOULD have done things different, but I didn't 

About 4 years ago I let my nephew's step son and his girlfriend at the time move into a mobile home I have on 40 acres. They have had free reign of the property. They have since married and have 3 little girls. The understanding was that if I ever needed them out, that there would be no problems. I am finding out that I have mistrusted family members severely. 

Move into is the key word. I asked no rent, only that they maintain the mobile home. During this time no monies have been exchanged between us. They have kept up the mobile home from what I understand, and replaced the furnace when it went out. I've not been in the home in a couple of years. I don't know what condition it's in. I don't even know how I would gain access, since they have changed the door and the locks.

Last fall my property taxes went way up on this property. I can no longer afford to let people use my property freely. On February 14 of this year I verbally (I know-should have been written) notified them that I would need to start charging rent. They were in shock and acted like they had just been victimized. 

On May 1 I verbally asked them if they were going to pay rent. On June 1, I asked again. On June 7, I finally mailed them with the first notice of 7 days to pay up or get out, I forget what it's called. (That's what is used in MI). 

I really feel like I've been taken advantage of (I know! My own fault for being nice.) and have not harassed them about moving. 

I never expected this to turn into a LANDLORD TENNANT relationship, silly me, especially since there was no $ involved. I'm not exactly sure of what to do next as I don't really have extra cash to hire a lawyer. 

They are low income and can get Legal Aid to help them. I'm not much better off and will have to fork out funds for legal help I guess. 

At this point in time I'm looking for suggestions. I have been looking online to make sure I am following the law correctly, as I have read that one misstep and the entire process has to start again.

I have hated this whole affair to turn so ugly. My nephew also uses part of the property freely, and I have told him that he needs to start paying rent also for the 20 or so acres he has planted in hay. (Last fall he rolled, fertilized and planted high dollar hay and the field looked beautiful.) 

Right now I am so frustrated. My nephew just took the first cutting of hay off and I've not seen a penny. I'm ready to hook up the plow and turn it all over myself and put a gate across the driveway to the hay fields with NO TRESPASSING signs. 

The wife of my nephew (mom to mobile home "tennants") came over while I was at the store on June 2nd and told DH we (meaning nephew + wife and her son the mobile home "tennant") need to sit down and talk. (DH's name is not on the property) I've already made 3 attempts verbally requesting rent for the mobile home and 1 for the fields. I've decided that the courts should deal with this matter of the mobile home further. 

Has anyone else ever had this situation where they had to evict someone who never actually paid any rent? (Yes, I realize that upkeep is a form of paying rent, and theirs amounts to mowing the lawn and paying their own utilities). 

I have had other family members state that they are just waiting for an eviction notice so that the state will step up to help them. I am not willing to turn the mobile home into state funded housing. I'm really unaware of what the state does to help low income renters. 

Yes, yes, yes, I know I've made mistakes in handling this situation. Please don't beat me up too badly, and thanks in advance.


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## glwalker (Apr 19, 2005)

There's nothing to beat you up over. In most households, the rent or mortgage payment is the biggest expense each month. These relatives should be grateful that they got four years of rent-free living. They should have used that opportunity to improve their situation, and realized that something that good can't go on forever. If there was twenty acres of land with it, that's more than enough to land to live off of. I wish I had more advice about how to handle the situation, but you have done them a good favor.


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

Go to the District Court in your County and ask for paperwork to start an eviction, it will be in the Civil Div. and they will help you out. It is a process and will take some time but you may as well start now. You will not need an attorney, you can do all the paperwork yourself, but you will need to serve papers on them, which you also can do yourself. Most prperty in Michigan is losing value now.


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. Like you, I have a big heart and am usually on the short-end of the stick because I extend myself too much. Agreeing with glwalker.. they should have used the opportunity to improve their situation. Everyone expects something for nothing. Back to reality for them. Definitely seize your land back, post signs, put up fences, whatever you need to do. And DON'T do business with family!! If you decide to go against that advice, get a LAWYER and some serious written/legal contracts to protect YOU.


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## Jan Doling (May 21, 2004)

Don't feel bad about how you handled it in the past, just move forward. 

Since you have to evict, use the state guidelines and since they don't seem to understand the tenant/landlord concept, they need this push into reality now. Time for them to grow up and for you to quit enabling. Start the next tenants out with gin writing and use the state guideines.


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## sbanks (Dec 19, 2010)

Hey, you own it, they are squatters.


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## SillyMe (Mar 23, 2011)

You MUST act swiftly and totally disregard "family" maters. You could loose your property entirely if you do not. First thing tomorrow go to the District Court and begin eviction proceedings in a to-the-letter manor. You have everything to loose if you do not act now. Emotions have no place in your decision.

If you do not have the equipment find someone who does and plow the field right away. You do not have to issue any type of notification to plow your own field. If you know someone with a bulldozer and can swing it, park it right in front of their front door. You do not have to issue any type of notification to park a 'dozer anywhere on your own property.

Do not consider their feelings as they have known for 4 years that you have been taken to the cleaners by themselves. Of course they may want to fight you, make you feel like a terrible person, and may even threaten you. It's their guilt feelings that may make them act this way.

This is no time to be mamby-pamby. Get tough and get them out.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Sorry this happened. People are really something, aren't they?? In spite of the fact you have done these people a HUGE favor, your name is probably gonna be mud in the family now. Just try to shrug that off, it will pass. Anybody who gives you grief, tell them how much in taxes you have paid for the deadbeats, and that even if you rented it for just $200 per month, you are now out almost $10,000 in lost income over four years. Hopefully you can get them evicted without having to pay a lot of legal fees yourself. But now that you have started, don't back down. Keep taking the next step until it is done.


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## houndlover (Feb 20, 2009)

I think you're going to have to back up and get everything in writing - how much rent is going to be, when it will be paid, etc and serve it to them legally. If they don't pay the rent by a certain day, then legally evict them, having it served by a sheriff. You'll have to have them another 30 days, but unless they can produce to a court, some sort of legal written contract or other documents that give them certain rights to the property for living and farming, they are SOL.


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## NewGround (Dec 19, 2010)

Sad to create family troubles but as you noted you can no longer allow them a "free ride" due to increasing costs, taxes etc...

Confirm the laws and if they wont pay the new rent or new acreage rent then proceed with the eviction process and get other paying tenants...

It's not right for them endanger your own loss of the land to foreclosure. The land and every asset you own needs to be paying for itself in these times... It will be cheaper if they just pay up but if they've got their hackles up and won't listen to reason in a straight heartfelt explanation then you can count on future problems even if they agree to start paying now...

Once they're out, let them know you have forgiven them for the problems even though they will likely not have forgiven you. Let them bear that burden unto themselves...


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

DONT plow that field until they are out


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Yuppers, you need legal advice - for your situation. Each state is different.

First. How long have they been there? If it's longer than 10 years, there's adverse posession and you'd be in trouble big time. 

Second, you need to decide if you want them out or just to pay rent, and how much. Posters here addressed both. 

Get a copy of the Landlord Tenant Act. I think you are talking about leasing not renting. renting is month to month - lease is year to year. Figure out how much you want to charge & put everythig in the lease. Including the farming of your land - remember adverse posession. We have rental tax here, check that out also. 

Third, Do NOT touch anything. In this sue happy world, you could have a law suit on your hands. Even if you won, it'd cost you to fight it. It's called nonsense suit. If the electricity is in your name, you can turn it off. But then again, check with your state. CYA!

I do know if you sell a property (here in AZ) and there are crops (or hay) on it, unless the contract specifies differently, the crops/hay belongs to the previous owner. FYI. 

Before you go to a lawyer, (go to a RE lawyer not a generalist, you may pay more, but it'll be done faster & correctly) decide what you want to do, find your options. learn as much as possible (it'll cost if the atty. has to teach you).

An unwritten rule in Real Estate - if nothing is written, it didn't happen. So write everything down. All future contacts with your nephew should be in return reciept letters. Keep a diary of what you have done verbally, and continue it as you go. (I'd even recap attorney phone calls in a letter to keep things clarified) You never know when a diary may come in handy.

Once you become a landlord - your mentality has to change - this becomes a business, no longer family. I think that's the hardest thing for people to do. 

And GOOD LUCK!


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## Jokarva (Jan 17, 2010)

http://www.mrlandlord.com/


This is a great resource for landlords, it has each state's laws and a question/answer forum that a lot of experienced landlords frequent.

Good luck!


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Attorney. Too much involved to risk following any free advice.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

Harry Chickpea said:


> Attorney. Too much involved to risk following any free advice.


I totally agree with Harry. This is way beyond getting advice on a message board. You need to forget about everything that's passed in the last four years (water under the bridge) and only move forward at this point. Get yourself a good attorney (try and see if someone can recommend one), and start legal proceedings. Only an attorney in your state can tell you what your rights are and what their rights are and how to resolve it. 

Good Luck!


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

Just another idea... If you're looking at loosing the property due to foreclosure, you CAN always sell it before it reverts back to the bank and you loose everything. As there is no lease or rental agreement, I THINK all this would take is a certified letter to the folks living in the house explaining your situation and that they need to find another place to live. As there is no lease or rental agreement, the new owners have nothing they need to abide by and can change the locks or throw them out on the streets. Of course I'd check the laws in your state, but that's the laws here. 

Good luck... As the saying goes, "No good deed is left unpunished". You were very generous to these folks for four years. Time they grew up and moved on.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I agree with seeing an attorney to find out exactly what you can and cannot do legally. Then since this involves family, I would send each a registered letter with what you want. Kindly tell them if they do not respond your next action will be to contact an attorney to have them removed. Don't tell them you've already contacted an attorney -- that's for you to know and them to find out! 

I would assume that this crop year would belong to the tenant as that is generally the case for farm leases. In Iowa there is a certain date that a lease has to be cancelled in order to regain possession of the land. I think its September something. Failure to cancel allows he tenant to retain for the next crop year.

You could talk to the local ASCS or FSA (or whatever its called these days) and find out what an appropriate cash rent would be for the farm land. Since the farmer has made an investment in the hay land I would think he'd be willing to enter into a fair lease in order to recoup his investment. If not, I'm sure there will be plenty of other takers.

As far as the trailer goes, I'd say at least enough rent to cover all your expenses plus something for you. Be prepared for vindictive trashing of the trailer if they are that kind of people. Again, if you ask a fair rent they should be willing to pay. If they are unable to pay, then they need to be evicted.

Farm land prices have gone crazy in Iowa so I imagine they have there too which is why your taxes have gone up. It wouldn't hurt to talk to the local assessor's office to see if the increase was too high for your particular land. Sometimes you can get adjustments -- not often, but sometimes.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

No advice here. Sorry you got burned for being so nice to them


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

As others have stated...You need a lawyer.


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## FiddleKat (Oct 22, 2004)

glwalker said:


> There's nothing to beat you up over. In most households, the rent or mortgage payment is the biggest expense each month. These relatives should be grateful that they got four years of rent-free living. They should have used that opportunity to improve their situation, and realized that something that good can't go on forever. If there was twenty acres of land with it, that's more than enough to land to live off of. I wish I had more advice about how to handle the situation, but you have done them a good favor.


ditto!! they should be so lucky to have a place rent free for four months. We rented my bil's house for two years. A small cape on two acres. He only charged us $400 compared to the $1500 and $2000 a month most people were paying. After two years he had to move back in which meant us moving out. No ill feelings. Know he had to do what he had to do and thankful that we had two years to live in a house. Gave us the opportunity to finally own our own house too!!


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## Mr.Hogwallop (Oct 2, 2009)

Is the trailer still on wheels?
Do you have a tractor?

Move the trailer once week and plow the yard under.

But seriously, all you have to do is start the standard eviction process for a tenant. I had to get rid of a house guest once like that, the cops told me I invited them to stay so, I couldn't just toss em out, it had to be a by the book eviction.

In about 90 days you'll have a massive headache and an empty trailer to set fire to because in 90 days of fighting it wont be worth storing dead rats in when they are done with it.

I think moving it and plowing under the yard once a week would be a lot more fun.


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

Having said that, we can move on to the practicalities and what is needed for you to reclaim your
property "legally". Not wishing to offend some of the other members who have given their heartfelt 
'feelings' on the matter, if you follow through on even a portion of what they have suggested, 
you will be in legal hot water. That's not to say that I'm a legal eagle or a lawyer or even qualified to 
offer legal advice. But I've been a landlord for a number of years *IN MICHIGAN* and so I do 
know something of the problem. Those who I take issue with, don't even reside here......so their mileage 
definitely varies......though I seriously doubt they could get away with what they've suggested in their own 
states. I was going to mention that you don't need a lawyer to file the necessary paperwork or to 
represent your interests in court, but if you're uneasy or unsure of the various processes, it might 
not hurt (except the pocketbook) to inquire with a local lawyer who is well-versed in landlord/tenant 
disputes regarding eviction and reclaiming your property. 

First off, you don't need to beat yourself up; when we deal with family or friends, we normally don't 
want to believe that something may come back to bite us. But when it involves money or will start costing us, 
then it's a bit late to worry about closing the barn door.....the horses are already out and onto the highway! 
It doesn't matter to the court, if you allowed them to live there rent-free for all these years, you still 
will have to treat them as tenants; not uninvited guests who have overstayed their visit. 
And I wouldn't advise plowing up that hayfield either; once they've been evicted, someone else would 
probably pay you for taking off the remaining cuttings this year (and possibly into the future); 
but be sure and 'get it in writing' first!

Of course the best solution (if it can be worked out to the satisfaction of *ALL* parties involved) 
would be to sit down and draw up a separate contracts; one for the trailer and one for the 20 acres of 
hay and sign them together, and have it dully notarized; all parties getting copies of same. It's been 
my experience, that it's probably too late for that now.....but you would know best. You've started 
in the right direction by serving the 7 day notice to quit. Make sure you follow up on it on the 
date due, with the official notice to evict. And the rest of the paperwork and/or court dates to follow. 
Below, is the hyperlink showing the copy of the notice that you filed and what your tenant received.

*http://courts.michigan.gov/scao/courtforms/landlord-tenantlandcontract/dc100c.pdf*

Believe me when I say, that you want to make absolutely certain that you file the correct paperwork in 
the right order and in a timely fashion. When the former wife and I moved back to Michigan from Texas, 
the house we were purchasing and going to be moving into 'upon our arrival', was occupied by 
non-paying tenants who were 'working the system'. She not only wasn't paying the landlord who 
lived in Florida, she was subletting to another couple and their kids, but also let out the detached 2 car 
garage for another to live in!!! To top it off, she milked the state for a number of claimed disabilities that she 
and her kids allegedly had; of being afraid to go out into the open; despite being seen heading into town 
by the neighbors on a weekly basis......we figured out that she was clearing *OVER $2800 a month*......
but wouldn't pay the landlord, one red cent when she found out we were going to buy the place. 
We made the sale contingent upon the landlord doing the evicting *BEFORE* we arrived. 
She got her ex-husband who lived locally, to do the necessary paperwork. Only he tried to do it the quick 
(and not so legal) way by 'telling them to get the 'heck' out by such and such a date'......Guess what? 
The courts and their free legal aid from the state, got them an extra 30 days free extension!!! 
They were still there on that date.....and *LONG* beyond it. 

We ended up living in my parents 28 ft, 5th wheel camper for nearly 4 months.....waiting ......
and waiting.....and then being told thru the grapevine, that if they were evicted, that the place 
would be uninhabitable, so that *NO ONE* would be able to live there again. It nearly was.....
two days after we finally took possession, we were in the process of pulling up feces covered carpeting 
when the health department came by and were about to nail on notices that the house was condemned. 
We convinced them that we were the 'new owners' and were in the process of getting it 
back to liveable standards. The flea infestation and roaches were beyond belief and their was human 
excrement smeared on the walls; written in a crude and vulgar language. The toilet was overflowing; 
stopped up and backing up into the tub; there was also a large hole in the middle of the bathroom 
that you had to step over just to get to the toilet!!! These 'people', if you want to call them that.....
hmmmm....don't really want to denigrate animals by trying to compare them.....because even 
animals wouldn't live like that. However there were 4 dogs 6 cats, a couple of geese and a rabbit 
occupying the residence.....so I guess animals were forced to 'live' like that! Oh yeah, one other thing; 
there was no septic tank or septic field either......we had to have them put in entirely at our own expense. 

One last piece of advice. This too shall pass.....just take it one 
step at a time and check out this site for further assistance: 

*http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/tenantlandlord.pdf*


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## insocal (May 15, 2005)

I think SOME places if they don't pay rent it's a GOOD thing because there IS no landlord-tenant relationship - they are guests in your home and you can throw them out anytime you want.

Consult a good landlord-tenant law attorney posthaste.


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

I am also a landlord in MI. Once someone is there 30 days it gets harder to get them out, lease or no, guest or squatter. 

I would tell them to be out in 30 days, or you will sue them in small claims for back rent and give them a bad reference for any apt/landlord that does a background check. It's a bluff, you have no leg to stand on most likely, but they may just believe you and leave in peace for the reference and "past rent" they might be out. The 20 acres I would offer a lease contract or get a no trespass order (we get $600 for about 20 acres of mixed grass hay in NW MI, you should do better). He's not living there so he has no rights to it. Since his son(?) is the one living there, but has no lease spelling out what he is leasing, there is no way he could sublease.

Maybe you can just convince them it's time to leave. If not, hire a lawyer. They can be very handy, and good ones save you more than you spend on them.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Didnt you post about this a while ago? The kid was stealing your gas from your garage and had a bad attitude?

Who in the family is this guy arfaid of, and who does he respect? Find that family member and ask them to get this kid off your land. If that fails go to the courts.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Copperkid gave the best advice I think. I too am a landlord, though in a different state. If they've been there over 1 month they become tenants even if they aren't paying rent. I think that's become a fairly standard law in all states.
Just file the eviction notice. 'Working things out' won't help you now,IMO. They'll always be late, be short, avoid you when rents due... And anytime you let them slide it sets you back to the beginning of the eviction process.

Just follow the letter of the law, which is easy to find, hard to do. Get them out and either rent to someone else or destroy the trailer. That's my advice, take it for what it's worth I suppose. Not much...lol


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## MN Gardener (Jan 23, 2008)

Legal aid helps all types of lower income families, they may help yours too. If you can't afford legal advice try calling them. The worse the can say is "no".


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Already covered


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

sbanks said:


> Hey, you own it, they are squatters.


an interesting point in itself.... many states observe squatters rights which can actually create severe legal issues all by itself. They may well have been there long enough to be able to claim the property for their own! This of course depends on the state, it laws and many individual factors.... but its something to look into. Talk to a good real estate attorney in your area to find out if and any squatters rights may be involved. In Ky, most any attorney will advise you of your situation for free, and many will even guide you through the "hoops" to get your property back for free as well.... as long as you do it on your own and they are not obligated to file forms or appear in court. Of course they would want compensation under those conditions.


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## Terri in WV (May 10, 2002)

All legal matters aside, insurance is something you need to consider in the cost of the rent. Once I started renting my house, the insurance went up.

Best of luck to you.


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

Thanks for all the imput, it's really given me many things to think over.

I own the property with no leins, it was my inheritance. 

No, I have not mentioned this before, City Bound. 

I doubt that legal aid would help me, they will more than likely help the "tennants". 

I'll re-read all the posts in the morning, hopefully with fresh eyes to help me make a couple of decisions. 

Thanks for the positive homesteading comments.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

I can not imagine actin the way your nephew has- I am so sorry you have had to do this and deal with this crapola- hopefully it all works out for you with out too much fanfair


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I could give you advice, but you'd probably end up in jail, so I won't.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

Okay, I've read the OP several times, and I have a couple of points to make.

First, about your verbal warnings -- they are worth the paper they are written on. Or in more plain terms, they are not worth anything at all; legally, unless they are a type of contact specified in the original contract, they don't mean anything. Since you didn't have a written contract to begin with, you were wasting your breath.

Second, I've re-read your post, and maybe you were too polite and fair and left out some important details, because unlike many other posters, I fail to see how they have been using you for the last four years. The past few months are different, but from what you have posted, the only thing they are guilty of is ignoring you.

Next, about the rent for the trailer and the field -- have you actually told them how much you expect, even verbally? Maybe you have, but that's not clear from your posts. Have you told them _how much_ the taxes have gone up recently -- shown them an actual number? I wouldn't recommend this with a regular tenant, but like it or not, these guys are family, and you are stuck with them even after they are no longer using your property.

Fourth, concerning the field alone -- I think that you've already lost this one and your best bet is to just let it go and just make sure that he knows that he will either have to pay you to rent the land next year or not use it at all. Why? Because the two of you already had an agreement -- he got to use the land, and you hadn't asked for anything in years past, so really that's your agreement, wasn't it? Leases for agriculture land are usually yearly things, because the one doing the planting has to spend time and money preparing the land for harvest, which he did. He did put the money in for seed and fertilizers, and now, part way though the year, you want to change everything. If this wasn't a family member, if this was a business associate, they'd be p***ed, and with good reason. I think you need to let this go for now, and present them with a contract that starts next January that spells out the terms formally.

Okay, back to the tenant situation -- you've said "pay me" -- have you said how much? Have you presented them with a regular contract of any kind? You said they seem to be keeping the place okay and well, ask any landlord -- that's not really a _bad_ recommendation in the whole landlord-tenant thing. Lackluster, yes, certainly, but how many tales have been posted of really, really _really_ bad tenants? I can't count that high. If you do get them out, do you have anyone lined up to move in and pay rent? If you don't then how long do you think that it will take to get someone in there, and will they have the same motivation to treat the place as well as they have been? Maybe not. Probably not.

To sum it up, from what I've read from your posts, I think that the main problem is that you are a _nice_ person, a kind and generous person and that probably has gotten in the way of clear, unambiguous communication with your relatives.

Now, I've mentioned a couple of times that you've left details out, and I want you to understand, I know we here at HST don't have a right to demand more details from you, but I think that maybe it would be a good idea to communicate more with your relatives -- that after a four year arrangement, perhaps you should smooth things out with clear communication.

I've said you sound like a _nice_ person, and that's what I believe, but "nice" isn't a quality that serves you well right now.

Polite, however -- _polite_ will serve you very well, I believe -- and it is entirely possible to be polite, kind, and generous, and _still_ communicate clearly, with no ambiguities, and that's what I think you need to do now -- reset everything as though this is the first time you've even brought the subject up, and start the conversation over again.

Be polite, kind, gentle, and soft-spoken, but also be incredibly _firm_ about this. Do everything in writing, even if it's only e-mail.

Yes, a lawyer will help, but one might not be necessary in this case.

Of course, I could be reading the situation completely wrong, and if that is the case, feel free to disregard any or all of my post.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Our nephew bought a bank foreclosure that was occupied by squatters. The bank gave them $1500.00 to move out and not destroy the place. Much cheaper than lawyers and the squatters had just moved in to an empty house.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

Wolf mom said:


> Yuppers, you need legal advice - for your situation. Each state is different.
> 
> First. How long have they been there? If it's longer than 10 years, there's adverse posession and you'd be in trouble big time.


Sorry Wolf Mom, you are wrong on this point.OP lives in MI. According to http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15876&page=1
_
"The elements of adverse possession in Michigan are: actual, visible, open, notorious, exclusive, and uninterrupted possession that was hostile to the owner and under cover of a claim of right for a fifteen-year period"_

The OP allowed these people to live there, which removes the element of hostile, and she said that they have been there for four years, not the ten you mention or the fifteen required by law.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

It also sounded like the nephew's wife was offering to sit down and try to work something out? Yes, it was to DH who isn't on the lease, but maybe you're so exasperated by now that she wanted to make the offer to the side to give you time to think about it, cool down and be more clear-headed. Just because he's not on the deed doesn't mean you never listen to him... Hopefully LOL 

Just saying, rather than going straight eviction, talk to them and see if they're willing to offer something along the lines of rent, etc?


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## KIT.S (Oct 8, 2008)

"I have had other family members state that they are just waiting for an eviction notice so that the state will step up to help them. I am not willing to turn the mobile home into state funded housing. I'm really unaware of what the state does to help low income renters."

If all you want is rent income, not necessarily to evict these folks who seem to be keeping up the place otherwise, then you need to talk to the welfare folks and settle in your own mind your willingness or unwillingness to allow welfare to pay their rent. It won't mean anything to you except guaranteed rent. In Alaska, where I handled rental properties for years, there are no extra inspections, no costs to the owner, no real contact with the welfare folks, just monthly written correspondence. It may not sit well with you that someone is paying their rent for them, but that's not really the point.

You mention that your family is expecting this to be the outcome. Do you really mind so much about them receiving welfare that you would put yourself to the effort of finding another tenant who might not keep up the place and might demand more from you, such as fixing the furnace, etc, and who also may end up on welfare? And since they are family, allowing them to continue living there, paying rent however they get the money legally, seems to be a good reason, too.

And it's a lot cheaper than an attorney.

Kit


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

If she was referring to low rent housing then there are inspections and a long list of items that must be conformed to by the landlord.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Check your state's laws. You've always had a landlord-tennant relationship even though you've never called it that. You cannot modify an oral contract verbally. It must be in writing so you really only have the original verbal contract. 

Here you must give a 30 day notice for eviction. Check with your state. After 30 days, you can give a notice of about 5 days to vacate. At that time the sheriff comes and you can move their stuff out into the front yard. You're going to have to give this notice to both your nephew and his son. Before evicting them, I'd tell them that you must draw up a written contract, preferably with a lawyer. You could purchase a lease agreement from a place like Legal Zoom. 

I think you ought to make some money out of this arrangement. If you don't, wish this, you don't. Minimally, they should pay taxes, any mortgage, and upkeep on the house. They should be required to speak with you about any major remodeling or repair work before it is done. If you choose to continue allowing your nephew to mow the hay, he should give you something like half if you maintain the field or 1/3 if he maintains the field. You should have a written contract with your nephew. You need to have keys to the house so you can check on your property. 

I would make the agreement as a 1-year lease where you can evict if necessary. You need to get a deposit so that you can repair any damage. Damage repair is another reason to make a little bit of profit.

I'd be concerned about adverse possession laws.


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## DianeWV (Feb 1, 2007)

This situation does NOT meet adverse possession criteria. Adverse possession will not be a problem in this situation.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Common Tator said:


> Sorry Wolf Mom, you are wrong on this point.OP lives in MI. According to http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15876&page=1
> _
> "The elements of adverse possession in Michigan are: actual, visible, open, notorious, exclusive, and uninterrupted possession that was hostile to the owner and under cover of a claim of right for a fifteen-year period"_
> 
> The OP allowed these people to live there, which removes the element of hostile, and she said that they have been there for four years, not the ten you mention or the fifteen required by law.


Thanks for the heads up -(it's 10 yrs in AZ). I think I mentioned states are different & the OP needs a lawyer, although her nephew's behavior may be construed as hostile at this point.


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

k9 said:


> Go to the District Court in your County and ask for paperwork to start an eviction, it will be in the Civil Div. and they will help you out. It is a process and will take some time but you may as well start now. You will not need an attorney, you can do all the paperwork yourself, but you will need to serve papers on them, which you also can do yourself. Most prperty in Michigan is losing value now.


In Florida there was also a book explaining in detail all the things you had to do to cross every T and dot every I, ok? Good luck. Make sure if there are any damages that your charge them and also you can collect that when/if you go to court. You should hire a lawyer, it cost me $250 and he covered all the stuff I needed to know and since my tenant lost, they had to pay for my legal help. I got the book from the small claims court but you might be able to google Michigan tenant laws or some such thing... GOOD LUCK and LEARN FROM THIS EXPERIENCE!


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

Joshie said:


> Check your state's laws. You've always had a landlord-tennant relationship even though you've never called it that. You cannot modify an oral contract verbally. It must be in writing so you really only have the original verbal contract.
> 
> Here you must give a 30 day notice for eviction. Check with your state. After 30 days, you can give a notice of about 5 days to vacate. At that time the sheriff comes and you can move their stuff out into the front yard. You're going to have to give this notice to both your nephew and his son. Before evicting them, I'd tell them that you must draw up a written contract, preferably with a lawyer. You could purchase a lease agreement from a place like Legal Zoom.
> 
> ...


Each state is different, don't listen to this - it might not be the least bit true for Michigan!


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

I have decided to go to an attorney in the a.m. This will prevent any further mistakes from being made. 

I will address both the hay field and the mobile home, and let everyone know how it turns out.

Thanks again so much for the advice. (I wish I could use some of it like they did in the old days!)


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

So? How did it go?


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

Here's my update. 

I spoke with a local attorney today. He felt that I could continue with the process with the paper I had filed, *HOWEVER* it was not the one I should havestarted with.

He did feel that I could procede with the one I used, but I told him from here out, I wanted to do it the RIGHT way. He said that he would help me, but I was more than likely able to do it on my own. He suggested that I contact the "tennants" once more and find out their intentions. If those intentions are that they refuse to move, than a phone call Wednesday would get the correct process in motion.

There will be charges for his services, as much as $500. Right now, it's worth it. I _will_ see if I can recover those charges through small claims court.

It's a full moon out, has anyone noticed???? 

I went to the mobile home and knocked on the door, just as the attorney suggested. Mrs. "tennant" became very beligerant when I asked if they were going to move or pay rent. Her reply was NO! YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO EVICT US!!! At that point, I said fine, we will let the court handle the matter. She also informed me that all of the so called improvements would be removed from the home. At this point I had to turn and walk away because I had some extremely ILL feelings of wanting to do great bodily harm that I had to squelch.

Her parting words were "Don't come back here and harass me or I will call the cops". 

Believe me, I was NOT harassing her in any way shape or form. I know, I know, harassment is all in the eye of the beholder. 

So tomorrow I contract with the attorney for his services.

We did not discuss the hay field.

I will handle it on my own terms with my BLOOD nephew.

There are trees that will soon bear the weight of flatbed wagon semi truck tie down chains between them at the entry of the farm. There will be no tresspassing signs posted. There will also be several _hunting cams_ placed among the trees just as an added insurance against tresspassers.

One person's decisions affect a whole family. My nephew's wife ("tennants" mom) runs that clan. All she would have to do is tell them to get out, and the situation would be cleared up. Now she and her husband will no longer have the benefit of the usage of the hay field. 

What comes around goes around. 

I love my nephew, but I'm pretty hurt that he won't stand up for me (I helped raise him when he was a baby).

Sorry for the rant and the dirty laundry being aired, but sometimes anonymous imput is some of the best advice. 

Thanks again for listening  

PS> 

I'm eating Dove dark chocolate to deal with the moon phase. Try it, it works!


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Joshie said:


> Check your state's laws.
> Here you must give a 30 day notice for eviction. Check with your state. After 30 days, you can give a notice of about 5 days to vacate. At that time the sheriff comes and you can move their stuff out into the front yard.





luvrulz said:


> Each state is different, don't listen to this - it might not be the least bit true for Michigan!


It isn't even true for IL. 

In IL, you must have delivered an eviction notice to the tenants by certified, return receipt mail. (One for each of the adults in the home). Once you receive your return receipt, you can file the notice to quit with the courts and get your court day. These need to be served to all the adults living in the rental property.

Next is the court date where the judge will decide how much time they will give the tenants to move out and court order payment from them.

Only after the court ordered move out time can the sheriff remove them from the dwelling by force


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

The attorney said that he would get the sherrif's department to deliver the documents. I'm sure it will be part of the cost I pay, but again, worth it!


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

Worth every single penny Ken....Good Luck!


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

kenworth said:


> I went to the mobile home and knocked on the door, just as the attorney suggested. Mrs. "tennant" became very beligerant when I asked if they were going to move or pay rent. Her reply was NO! YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO EVICT US!!! At that point, I said fine, we will let the court handle the matter. *She also informed me that all of the so called improvements would be removed from the home.* At this point I had to turn and walk away because I had some extremely ILL feelings of wanting to do great bodily harm that I had to squelch.


Did you ask the attorney if it was legal for a tenant to remove improvements that were affixed to the property, like the furnace? I don't know about MI, but in most states, that is illegal. You might want to ask the lawyer to write a nice lawyer letter explaining how they will be liable if they do as the loudmouth threatened.

I just evicted a tenant. His room mate moved out first, and advised me that he overheard the other tenant on skype with friends discussing how they could do the most damage to my home possible by drilling through major beams in the attic. The rental apartment is on the second floor of my house in the burbs, and there is attic access from the apartment. I called an attorney, and she advised me to give the tenant notice 24 hours in advance that I would be entering the apartment for inspection once a week. Any more often than that and it could be construed as harassment. So I gave the 24 hour notice. While in the apartment I photographed the entire apartment. I inspected the attic and beams, and I padlocked the attic (he was never allowed in the attic, so locking that door wasn't a violation of his rights.

He had put a keyed lock on the bedroom door, and used it to lock me out. I demanded he open it. He wasn't happy about it, but he did open it, and I inspected the bedroom and photographed it.

I gave him a letter explaining what he needed to do to clean the apartment upon leaving,and was very clear that he was responsible for any damage he caused. California law requires a 30 day eviction notice under my circumstances, so I made several visits during that time. Although I never mentioned that his ex roomie ratted him out, he got the strong impression that I was onto him, and he left the apartment filthy, but intact. Michigan law allows you to give 24 hours notice before entering. http://www.laborlawtalk.com/archive/index.php/t-1833.html

This woman threatened to damage your property. I would give her 24 hours notice in writing, and have it served by a disinterested third party, Show up 24 hours later with muscle. Have a copy of the notice with you, and also a copy of the deed to show to the police when she calls them on you. In fact, you might ask your local cops to accompany you because she has threatened you. Even if they cant or won't come, they will know that you are the owner, following the letter of the law, and this woman want's to use them to harass you.

Photograph the place inside and out. If she asks why, tell her that you are there legally. If that doesn't satisfy her, tell her you are establishing a baseline with the photo to be used in court if she causes any damage. That vandalism crime is a civil matter, and the photos will be used to establish guilt, but also that vandalism is also a criminal offense. And you won't hesitate to have her arrested if necessary.


kenworth said:


> Believe me, I was NOT harassing her in any way shape or form. I know, I know, harassment is all in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> So tomorrow I contract with the attorney for his services.
> 
> ...


Sounds like his mom is a piece of work. I think I would send her a letter, and explain to her that you have been very good to her boy for years. You know that she wants to get your hubby to pressure you into caving in and let the deadbeats stay, at great cost to you, but it is her turn to support them now.


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## glwalker (Apr 19, 2005)

It amazes me that this woman is actually threatening to call the police on you! She's had a free roof over her head for four years, and then turns like that when she's expected to pay rent. Is it my imagination, or do there seem to be more and more of these crazy type of people running around these days? It seems as though something has gone very wrong with the world.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

No good deed goes unpunished. Can't recall where I heard that saying.

Under no circumstances should you go to that property alone to do your inspection. I'd suggest asking a non-interested party to accompany you. Sheriff's deputy would be good if they are allowed to do so -- my bet is they are not. Maybe pay an off duty officer to go with you.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Good for you for hiring an attorney. With his directing the actions, you have more assurance it will be done correctly, and you always have the rejoinder that "the attorney told me to do it this way." When they try to attack you for your actions, that can reduce their complaints about how you handled it to a lot of aimless sputtering.

I hate to say it, but be prepared for some attempts to personally damage you. Put a locking gas cap on your vehicles, use an alarm system, and make sure that access to any of your accounts is limited and monitored.


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## kabic (May 12, 2009)

Edited out because I should have read more before commenting


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

ABOUT THE HAY>
In this state farm agreements have to be given in advance. He planted and tilled the field and now has a nice crop going if you destroy it you may wind UP PAYING HIM!
In fact since he has been there a while and it is a long term perennial crop he may have the rights to it for the usual period of use..in my state 7 years for good hay.
Is your attorney familiar with AG law?
if the kid is sharp and wants to stay the eviction of a residence is moot it will need to be handled under ag law.


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

The atty wanted a $500 retainer. I had DH get it to him. I got a letter a few days ago saying that they had to be out on JULY 16th.

I seen my nephew on the road today with Mr. "tennant". Nephew waved and smiled. Mr. "tennant" looked the other way.

I waved back.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

A good lawyer is worth every penny, believe me. 

I'd guess that Mr. Tennant got the letter based on the way he reacted?


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

Is whats really frosting you that they made some money?
.Have you talked with these folks? It would seem that timing and expectations might be the problem. Yes after you use something long enough you start to feel entitled to it.
If the nephew has been using the property rent free he would expect that to continue. When He made the investment in the hay crop last year I think it showed that. And you even seem pleased about it. But now this year they make some money and you suddenly want to get them out....AFTER they spent their money.
Sorry but that looks like a setup.
Get on a farming forum and ask farmers how the would feel and what they would do if they spent money to put in a crop and the landlord tried to evict them before they harvested it.
Would it clear things up if they paid enough rent to cover the taxes?


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

> I'd guess that Mr. Tennant got the letter based on the way he reacted?


Yep, because I got a letter directly from the "tennants" attorney, not addressed to my attorney. This was dated since my attorney sent the second notice. He requested that we handle the situation out of court. Out of court????? I have been trying to do this since February by asking for rent monies! LOL, I guess their attorney figured that I would be uneducated enough to respond to it. I had DH deliver it to my attorney. My attorney advised that I (DH) proceded properly by not responding and handing it over to him. 



> Is whats really frosting you that they made some money?


What _frosts_ me is that the taxes have risen significantly. I asked for rent to help cover a portion of the taxes and the "tennants" have decided not to pay the mobile home rent. 

A prior discussion AT SEEDING TIME concerning taxes ensured me that if taxes increased, I would be compensated if taxes went up. This converation was in September. Sorry I have left this information out in my original post. 

The fact that taxes had risen was made PLAIN before the hay was ever harvested, in February, to both my nephew and the "tennants", concerning the field and the mobile home.

If I asked a farming forum about the harvest, it would have to include the information about the verbal agreement also. Most likely anyone that would be asked would say they would honor their word, so what would be the sense in wasting their time or mine? 

What kind of "set up" does this consist of? Please explain. 



> Would it clear things up if they paid enough rent to cover the taxes?


Not at this point because they have had since February to come up with the monies, and have repeatedly ignored my requests. In total I have asked 3 times for mobile home rent. 

With the "tennants" nasty attitude at my last encounter with Mrs. "tennant" , they are in the words of my attorney "outta there". 

Time for the taxes to be paid from profits from rent, not directly from my pocket. 

Upon making this statement, I also know that any future rentals will have a written legal document outlining both landlord and tennant responsibilites. 

I never felt that a written document would be necessary, especially with family being involved. I'm at the point where perhaps the "tennants" may not be considered family, but merely what they are, "tennants".


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## chickenmommy (Aug 24, 2004)

> I never felt that a written document would be necessary, especially with family being involved. I'm at the point where perhaps the "tennants" may not be considered family, but merely what they are, "tennants".


Family being involved is exactly WHY you need written documents. Family generally feels that they are entitled because THEY ARE FAMILY.

Nip it, nip it nip it. And don't look back, and never "rent" to family again. If any family calls wanting to rent from you, give them a tarp and send them on their way. That way you'll only be out $20 for their living arrangements.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Kenworth, attorneys *will* try to trick you and persuade (meaning threaten) you into doing things on your own (meaning without your attorney's counsul). Like your attorney said, don't respond to *anything* the tennants attorney says or does. If any phone calls come from the tennants attorney, don't say *anything* other than something like 'do not call me again. All contact must go through my attorney Mr. So and So" and hang up. Have no contact with the tennants attorney or the tennants for that matter--everything goes through YOUR attorney. Follow the letter of the law and all procedures to a T, because if you don't, that's where the tennant's attorney is going to nail you. 

And you don't have to justify to anyone why you want them off your property. It is YOUR property and if you are legally in the right, you don't have to try to explain or justify anything to anyone. Some folks like the tennant simply want something for nothing and to take advantage. You don't need to justify yourself to anyone.

Good luck, I hope everything resolves for you very soon and very smoothly.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

How long to they have to leave (I haven't read the entire thread)? Did they get a warning about damaging the property?


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

The second notice gave them 30 days. The date is July 13 I believe.

No letter was sent about damaging of property.

When I calm down, (not sure if I'm riled up from anger our laughter) I will post what the "tennants" attorney sent me by mail.

They don't have my phone #, it's a cell. 

I've not really had any reason to contact them, I figure $500 paid to counsel, he will take whatever needs to be done.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

But now this year they make some money and *you suddenly want to get them out....AFTER they spent their money.*
Sorry but that looks like a setup.

The bold part is how it looks like a setup.
So in Michigan you can evict a farmer with a growing crop?


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## ann in tn (Nov 25, 2007)

Fantasy Maker - they did things that increased the tax rate. The owner just wanted enough money to pay the taxes. They decided to be jerks. So out they go.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

The nephew could elect to pay rent for the hay field and let his son get evicted from the trailer. If he agreed to give something if the taxes went up and then he didn't, that's breech of contract (even oral) and therefore not a "set-up" IMO


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

At some point you obviously had feelings for the family members involved .
it seems theres a difference of opinion on what value those feelings were worth


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

Wow ! around here it would be the opposite farm land is taxed at the LOWEST rate.


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

> But now this year they make some money and you suddenly want to get them out....AFTER they spent their money.
> Sorry but that looks like a setup.


Suddenly? I guess you didn't see my post where I said that last fall, _at seeding time_, I had the conversation that if taxes went up, that I would need compensation. Oh my that is awfully sudden. 

Taxes have been mentioned several times in the past years. The reason being that I had someone else paying me rent, and my nephew knew it. My nephew knew that the field rental money went towards help paying the taxes. More than once over the past few years I have mentioned that if taxes went up, I would need compensation. Setup? I guess so, if that's how it is seen. Oh yeah, they had made money off the old field, too, prior to the new planting. 

Did I mention that I had let them know several times over the past years that if taxes went up that I would need compensation? I must admit, this is a heck of a set up. Sudden surprize dear nephew! 

How more clearly do I need to make this statement?

At this point I haven't taken action on the field. 

As far as the letter from the "tennants" attorney goes, it mentions that they were _caught off guard_ by the request. Reminding them over the years of the conditions verbally is sure a surprize. Lemme see, telling them in February that I needed rent monies caught them off guard? Giving them a written notice may have thrown them into shock, but certainly the idea of having to become paying tennants was not a new idea to them. 

The "tennants" even had their grandma wanting to know if she could buy the place from me. I simply was not interested. If they wanted grandma to buy it, then how would they have known that I need rent? 

Their other complaint was that their understanding was that they could remain at the residence indefinately as long as they kept it up. Upkeep was only _*part*_ of the agreement. The agreement was that they could remain there rent free, providing: A. they MAINTAINED the property and B. that I RESERVED the right to start charging rent if the taxes ever went up.



> Wow ! around here it would be the opposite farm land is taxed at the LOWEST rate.


Since I am the owner, and I don't reside on the property, it's taxed at a higher rate. Agricultural land is taxed lower, but the township, so far, has refused to change the rate. You are correct, it is lower than residential. 



> At some point you obviously had feelings for the family members involved .
> it seems theres a difference of opinion on what value those feelings were worth


Very true. I felt that the feeling was mutual. However, it's quite evident that they have not had the same feelings because if they did, this post would have never been started. At this point, I'm merely reacting to a real world situation by asking that they pay rent. Remember, the first conversation with a dollar amount attached to it about paying real rent started in FEBRUARY. They objected then. I would have (should have) initieated the eviction process then, had I known how I would have been treated since then. I could have evicted them out in the cold of winter. I did not. I could have evicted them when the little ones were still in school. I did not. Having said that, I think I still have a lot of compassion for them, but not everyone will see it the same way as I do.

I've not even visited the property since the day I spoke with Mrs. "tennant". I think that nephew may be ready to harvest 2nd cutting soon.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

kenworth said:


> Suddenly? I guess you didn't see my post where I said that last fall, _at seeding time_, I had the conversation that if taxes went up, that I would need compensation. Oh my that is awfully sudden. .


 Your correct it is VERY sudden. AFTER the farmer has bought inputs and put in the crops is sorta like telling the skydiver your holding the chute till he pays the bill..after he jumps.
Its also sudden when you have been saying this for years and not doing anything. As far as they see nothing changed till they got notice from your lawyer.



kenworth said:


> Taxes have been mentioned several times in the past years. The reason being that I had someone else paying me rent, and my nephew knew it. My nephew knew that the field rental money went towards help paying the taxes. More than once over the past few years I have mentioned that if taxes went up, I would need compensation. Setup? I guess so, if that's how it is seen. Oh yeah, they had made money off the old field, too, prior to the new planting.
> 
> Did I mention that I had let them know several times over the past years that if taxes went up that I would need compensation? I must admit, this is a heck of a set up. Sudden surprize dear nephew!
> 
> ...


So basically your not doing what it takes to have the township tax the property propely and you want the tennants to make up for your lazyness?:shrug:

I think you have been very generous over the years but your actions inthis post dont make you look very nice.
Are you simply failing to tell us something?Is the story deeper?


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

I guess the OP's priorities should be 1) being nice at all costs and 2) enabling her (his? sorry, dunno) extended family to have a free ride indefinitely? 

I guess that could, arguably, be the homesteading way. She provides the welfare for this family so the government doesn't have to. There's something to be said for that. 

And I guess the tenants (BTW, everyone, it's "tenants," not that it's a big deal) can just go around planting whatever they wish wherever they wish and don't have to run it by the property owners? If that's true, fantasy, give me your address, and I'll be happy to come on down and put the onus on you to kick me off your land. Maybe I can get a good crop of hay out of it first. Maybe I can get a second cutting too, since you'll be worried about being nice about it. While you're being nice, a free trailer would be great too. And surely I can help myself to your fuel too, like the OP's tenants did.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

Guess the OP can move in after kicking them out to get it "taxed properly"? 

Yes, after a certain amount of telling someone something, you have to take action. If that catches them by surprise, well Whoop-tee-do! Sheesh, do you just keep telling your kids "If you don't stop there'll be consequences" and never do any more? Better not do more, cause I guarantee, they'll be surprised!


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

Eyes Wide Open said:


> And I guess the tenants (BTW, everyone, it's "tenants," not that it's a big deal) can just go around planting whatever they wish wherever they wish and don't have to run it by the property owners? If that's true, fantasy, give me your address, and I'll be happy to come on down and put the onus on you to kick me off your land. Maybe I can get a good crop of hay out of it first. Maybe I can get a second cutting too, since you'll be worried about being nice about it. While you're being nice, a free trailer would be great too. And surely I can help myself to your fuel too, like the OP's tenants did.


Did you read the OP's posts? He gave them permission.
Encouraged them. And never once DID anything to get rent from them till after AFTER the taxes went up due to his lack of action.
It would seem like Lack of Action is a common reaction with the Op.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Any update?


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

Today, the 16th was their deadline, not the 13th. 

I'll check tomorrow, as it's still theirs until midnight. If they are still there, I'll call my attorney Monday to see what the next step is.


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

kenworth said:


> Here's my update.
> 
> I spoke with a local attorney today. He felt that I could continue with the process with the paper I had filed,
> *HOWEVER* it was not the one I should havestarted with.
> ...


*******************************************************
But had to come back and see how this train wreck had progressed. Imagine my surprise when 
I came to this post and found that you'd hired an attorney, but then *FAILED* to give 
him the entire story and were going to proceed on your own in the hayfield matter?!!! 

Paying $500 for the initial consulation fee will be peanuts compared to what you'll be shelling 
out with this second matter that you are handling *ON YOUR OWN*.....once their attorney gets done with you.

This is what always amazes me......people seek out 'free' advice from chat forums 
*(and they're are only worth what you pay for them) and then go to a legal expert 
(at least that's what it implies on the legal certificate on the wall of their law office) 
and then choose to not give them the entire story and how to handle it *LEGALLY*.

Please do come back to us in the next year and fill us all in on how the 2nd half of this mess 
turns out......should prove entertaining to some of us....to the rest; perhaps an eye-opener.:nono::nono::nono::shrug:


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

copperkid3 said:


> I came to this post and found that you'd hired an attorney, but then *FAILED* to give
> him the entire story and were going to proceed on your own in the hayfield matter?!!!



As A farmer its the hayfield part that Ive focused on.
In this state that would be the key to the entire situation and a place where the OP would wind up in lots of trouble. 
BUT life dosent always work out the way it should ,if the other side is ignorant of their rights and does not defend them the OP may get everything he wants.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

The hayfield issue likely cannot be addressed before fall. Generally to terminate a farm lease/rental agreement the date is around Sept. 1. The attorney likely would have told her that so its moot for now.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

But the Op didnt TELL the lawyer about that part...so if the tennant dosent know their rights who knows what might happen .
Several of us are waiting to see how it plays out.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

fantasymaker said:


> But the Op didnt TELL the lawyer about that part...so if the tennant dosent know their rights who knows what might happen .
> Several of us are waiting to see how it plays out.


i think we all are waiting to see how this plays out but you seem to be waiting for this to just blow up in their faces.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

mare said:


> i think we all are waiting to see how this plays out but you seem to be waiting for this to just blow up in their faces.


Agreed. Fantasymaker seems obsessed with finding the OP in the wrong, and appears to actually be HOPING that this blows up.


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## LeopardFrog (Jun 3, 2011)

I don't have any advice, or solutions for the OP. I do have MY own example of learning my lesson in regards to renting to family.

My son and his then girlfriend lived in a building on my property. It was a nightmare because my expectations and his were MILES apart. He didn't clean, either didn't pay his rent or paid it late. We argued ALL THE TIME.

He moved out, he got married, to a different girl thank God, and ran into hard times and wanted to move back in. I said okay, but we would have to write up a contract. So ev erything was spelled out, INCLUDING a penalty for not paying the rent on time. Things have been much smoother this time around because the expectations are crystal clear.


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2011)

I was a landlord in MN. The laws are probably slightly different so contact an attourney for what is leagle in your state. 

I would not ask them for rent. I would evict them. They have shown that they don't want to pay rent and your efforts are just allowing them to stay there longer.

The first thing I would do is inspect the property and take pictures. Here the landlord has the right to inspect the property if they give the tenant 24 hours written notice. The notice doesn't have to be handed to the tenant, just sliped under the door. If they have changed the locks, check with your attourney to see if it is leagle for you to break in if you gave them proper notice of your inspection. 

Once you have pictures showing the condition of the property, start the legal eviction process. They may want to trash the place to punish you for kicking them out. Before they can do that, tell them that you have proof of the condition it was in on the date you took the pictures and if it is in apreciably worse condition when they move out you will file charges against them for malicious damage to property and have them locked up. This may stop them from trashing the place. If you really want to have nightmares, rent the movie Pacific Heights with Michael Keaton.

Go ahead and follow the laws in your state to evict them. Here, if you take any money from them you have to start the whole process over. The eviction will cost you money. The last time I evicted someone, I paid $250 in court costs to file the unlawful detainer, $120 for the sheriff to serve the notice and come back and throw them out, and $80 per hour for the sheriff to watch me inventory their possessions that were left behind in triplicate. One copy to the sheriff, one to the tenant, and one for me. Then I had to store the possesions for 90 days and then send the tenant a letter when I was going to dispose of their possesions. They could come and pick the possesions up at any time before I disposed of them. 

As far as the field that has been planted in hay, Again check with your attourney to see what the local law is. Here there is a law that any improvements a tenant makes to a property becomes the property of the owner of the property when the tenant vacates. You may be able to keep the field the way it is and work out a deal to cut the hay with someone other than the person who has taken advantage of you. I would also look into leagaly gateing the property so the twit can't come and get another cutting for free. 

Good Luck


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

mare said:


> i think we all are waiting to see how this plays out but you seem to be waiting for this to just blow up in their faces.


 I dont think Id use the words "Blow Up" but I am concerned.
I do think the OP MAY be partially wrong and I think NOT telling the lawyer important details is is a dangerous game.
As a farmer I am ALSO CONCERNED THAT A FELLOW FARMER MIGHT BE EVICTED OF A GROWING CROP.
As a homesteader doesnt that part really bug ya?
But No Id really like for it all to be amically resolved.(easyer said than done though)


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

copperkid3 said:


> *******************************************************
> But had to come back and see how this train wreck had progressed. Imagine my surprise when
> I came to this post and found that you'd hired an attorney, but then *FAILED* to give
> him the entire story and were going to proceed on your own in the hayfield matter?!!!
> ...


Two completely different tenants. One family (not blood relatives) is in the mobile home and he wants rent or to evict them. For that he hired an attorney. The other is a blood relative that grows hay on another portion of land and he is trying to work that out on his own. So you are saying that he should pay double to the attorney? One payment to work on the eviction process of the family in the mobile home and the other for the completely different family member farming the land. Why do they have to be combined? Two different people, two different issues. The farming portion is simple to resolve. After this haying season he writes a certified letter to the relative specifying the rent that is needed up front or he can't farm there any longer. If no response, change the locks on the gates and puts up "no tresspassing" signs. Problem fixed. No attorney needed.


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

My attorney's secretary contacted me today. The "tennant's" attorney wanted to know if I would consider renting to the "tennants".


That's right.

Rent to the "tennants".

I had decided, in June, after the 3rd time of asking them to rent, that point in time was the final offer of rent to them. This is when I started the eviction process.

I reminded the secretary that there were already 3 offers on the table, and they had declined all 3 prior offers. I said I merely want possession of my property again. 

She said she would pass that on to my attorney.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

good luck--hope its resolved quickly. thanks for the update.


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

Belfrybat said:


> Two completely different tenants. One family (not blood relatives) is in the mobile home and he wants rent or to evict them. For that he hired an attorney. The other is a blood relative that grows hay on another portion of land and he is trying to work that out on his own. So you are saying that he should pay double to the attorney? One payment to work on the eviction process of the family in the mobile home and the other for the completely different family member farming the land. Why do they have to be combined? Two different people, two different issues. The farming portion is simple to resolve. After this haying season he writes a certified letter to the relative specifying the rent that is needed up front or he can't farm there any longer. If no response, change the locks on the gates and puts up "no tresspassing" signs. Problem fixed. No attorney needed.


***********************************
different tenants. Apparently you were the one who didn't read the entire postings 
to find out 'how' the OP planned on 'working it out on their own'???

I found it strange that they would hire an attorney to 'fix' the one problem, but not make any 
mention of the other; especially the potential for financial disaster, if they followed through 
on what she was thinking of doing. It is NOT that simple to resolve.....one has to 'know' the 
law and then follow it; otherwise it could come back to bite them in a place they'd rather not 
have to think about. The attorney doesn't have to 'charge them twice'......it _*ALL*_(could) :smack 
have been taken care of at the same time.....just give him a run down and ask for his advice 
on how best to handle the situation *LEGALLY*.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

Belfrybat said:


> Two completely different tenants. ...... One payment to work on the eviction process of the family in the mobile home and the other for the completely different family member farming the land. Why do they have to be combined? Two different people, two different issues. .


 Perhaps Ive miss read but It seems the hay guy and the trailer guy are related . If not it would seem even worse, for the OP has said it was the haying that upped the taxes and now he wants the trailer guy to pay more.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

fantasymaker said:


> now he wants the trailer guy to pay more.


She wanted the 'trailer tenants' to pay, period. Now she just wants them out. The guy haying the field is also related, but the two issues are separate.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

We are talking about a nephew (hay guy) and His son (trailer tenant).
and actually the OP originally wanted BOTH to pay more.
I have to admit with the stuff going on I would want both of them out so it would be over too.
But I think she needs to at least play by the rules, which she may be doing...I don't know much about MI law in the situation.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

Any news??
Sorry you are going through all of this.


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

My attorney is on vacation till next Monday


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I think this letting people live in your trailer for nothing and now they won`t pay rent is BS, I think all you need to do is tell them to get the H--l out or the next person you will be seeing is my friend Bubba in the middle of the night. > Marc


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

Court date August 19.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

I hope they order back rent, at least from the time you filed. 
good luck


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## whatrset (Apr 13, 2010)

Edited out because I should have read more before commenting


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

How are things going?


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## grannygardner (May 4, 2005)

I hope things went well in court.


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

Several incidents happened at court. The short story is that they have until Sept. 20 to get out.

Here's the long story:

20 minutes prior to court time, we find out Mr. and Mrs. Tennant had fired their attorney. DH and I went into the courtroom and seen them waiting there. His Honor called the case, and my attorney instructed me to come up and sit down, and Mr. and Mrs. Tennant did the same.

The judge looks up and exclaims "What's going on here? I didn't instruct anyone to sit down!" Upon hearing this, my attorney tells the judge that the tennants had (I forget the PC terminology here) fired their attorney. Whereupon the judge asks the Tennants to please explain.

Mrs. Tennant says "We are hasking your Honor, if we could have 60 to 90 additional days." 

The judge looked at her as if she had suddenly grew a third eye in the middle of her forehead. He says "60 to 90 days? No. If I wanted to, I could order you out in 10 days from today. Did you not recieve your notice?"

Mrs. Tennant replies "We were _misinformed_ as to what the notice was."

Judge "I take it that there is no agreement?"

My attorney "Not at this time, your honor. However, if we could use the jury room, we could try and come to some type of agreement." The judge agrees and we all file into the jury room. My attorney had asked me 10 minutes before court if I would give them extra time. I told him NO, but he thought it best that I give them a few additional days, because the judge could sympathise with them at any point. I don't think he would have, and I wanted to find out for myself, but my attorney convinced me to consider perhaps 30 days. I put my foot down and said 20 was the MAX.

So we went into the jury room, and began the settlement. The first thing my attorney brought up was the mobile home's key. Mrs. Tennant snaps "I put that lock on the mobile home, and it's coming with me, along with the keys, they are mine!" My attorney tells her that the lock on the door needs to stay put. She finally relents, and agrees to leaving the keys in my mailbox when they vacate.

Next she brings up her washer and dryer. There were none there when they moved in, so I didn't care about them. Next item, she says she is removing the stove and refrigerator, too. These appliances were in the mobile home, although she had replaced the originals, and felt they needed to leave when they left. I said fine, get them out, they are easily replaced, just get OUT already. Next she mentions a ceiling fan. Now my attorney gets iritated, and doesn't agree. 

He asks her how long they have been living in the mobile home, and she sputters about 4.5 years. He asks if there is anything else that they are going to remove from the home, perhaps the furnace? She gets very defensive and says that she paid _thousands_ of dollars fixing the furnace, but she will leave it, with the carpet (second hand from someone elses home) and the sink. 

At this point I smile sweetly and tell them all that she may take the appliances she has purchased. My attorney put the list in writing. Waher, dryer, stove, fridge. Mr. and Mrs. Tennant had to sign the document. All the time Mrs. Tennant was talking, Mr. Tennant was sitting slouched in the chair with his lower lip sticking out and not saying anything. Mrs. Tennant signed, and pushed the paper to Mr. Tennant to sign. He says he is not signing anything. She replies, you have to, your name is on it. He says "I don't know why, I don't live there, and I don't pay rent there." 

He finally signs a 4" scrawled signature across the bottom 1/4 of the document, gets up and walks out of the jury room. He does not stop in the court room. He walks through another court case that is being held, and out the door to the hallway. I guess a few people in the room gasped. I hadn't reached the court room yet, but DH told me that the judge said "Someone stop him, I'm not through with their case yet." Mrs. Tennant ran after him, but returned alone.

I returned to the courtroom and sat on the sidelines where the jury would sit. The judge asked for the documents and returned to our case. Mrs. Tennant tried to sit down and the judge made her stand back up and questioned about the agreement and if that had been Mr. Tennant walking out. She said yes, and he asked if she had witnessed Mr. Tennant agreeing and signing the document. Again, yes. 

Finally the judge says, did she know that this was a binding document, and that she now had until Sept. 20 to vacate the premesis and agree to the conditions of the document. She agreed and the judge banged his gavel.

Afterwords I had a few words with my attorney, and I asked what happened next. He said they had to be out on the 20th, and if they weren't, to contact him. He had also given them his business card and told them if they had any questions, please call him. Finnally I asked what this did to them, and he said it would go on their credit report in about 30 days. 

We will see what happens on Sept. 21st.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Good for you! Hope everything from here on out goes smoothly.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

20 days is September 18. I'd be checking on the 19th if they aren't out and calling the sheriff if they aren't with court papers in hand.

I would have given them 10 days myself.


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

Mr. Tennant's _*mom*_ came over this evening, bringing 2 keys. 

I didn't have time to go over there tonight.

She said next week they would be paying rent on the hay field. We'll see. I'm not holding my breath.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

GOOD for YOU! I think that this might show some in your family that you will not be run over in the future. Anytime I've dealt with family in farm matters, it's handled as business. No hard feelings result if it's that way from the beginning.


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

Good for you! I know this was a tefrible lesson to go through - eviction is always ugly. I had one tenant that when we got to court (finally....) the judge evicted them on the spot. Told them they had one hour to vacate the premises.

Do you think there will be any family fall out?


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

kenworth said:


> Mr. Tennant's _*mom*_ came over this evening, bringing 2 keys.
> 
> I didn't have time to go over there tonight.
> 
> She said next week they would be paying rent on the hay field. We'll see. I'm not holding my breath.


Do you think they've already moved out since they gave you the keys??


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

luvrulz said:


> Do you think they've already moved out since they gave you the keys??


I highly doubt it. They had extra keys made. That lock needs to be changed or rekeyed the day after they are supposed to be out.


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## countrygurl (Dec 23, 2002)

just a thought, you said they are low on $, who's name is the utilities in, if yours disconnect the services, they wouldnt have the $ for the deposits to have the services turn back on.


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## Katskitten (Aug 5, 2010)

I would think a visit to the property post haste would be in order. Just to make sure there is nothing amiss. Especially if they have already moved.


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

countrygurl said:


> just a thought, you said they are low on $, who's name is the utilities in, if yours disconnect the services, they wouldnt have the $ for the deposits to have the services turn back on.


And have the services switched to your name. Good idea....

BTW, I wil *never* have rental prop again. Too many headaches.....good $$$ and the write off for expenses was great, but too many headaches....


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## SpaceCadet12364 (Apr 27, 2003)

If you have a rental property, we found through experience that you really have to be nearby enough to keep an eye on things yourselves.

We had bought a house up in WA state, when we transferred out of state to HI, thought we would do the smart thing and hire an agent to handle it for us as a rental.

Shew, the only thing they did besides get someone in there was to collect 50% of first month's rent and 10% each month afterwards. Ended up having to get these people out of there, and a friend that transferred into the area took pictures for us. The lawn was so overgrown you could hide a CAR in it. Carpets were thoroughly trashed, all the light bulbs were gone, there had been leaks that were never reported (bathroom floor was trashed, had to replace a bunch of subfloor), and all the interior doors were off their hinges and in the garage. :shrug: Loads of fun trying to get carpeting replaced when you are several thousand miles away. The agent was USELESS. Said she was "scared" to go on the occasional looksee to make sure it appeared to be going alright. Our neighborhood had like 3-4 local cops/state cops living out there, one was right across the street! :hrm:

Never did recover the owed rent, the agent screwed that part up too. Oh well. Ended up selling the house to the friend that moved into the area.


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## OUVickie (Mar 8, 2003)

The same thing happened in my family. My Mom had to have my brother evicted. It's sad when you try to help people and they totally take advantage of you and don't appreciate the help. I've learned over the years that people need to pay something and learn responsibility, or they don't appreciate what they have or what's yours - especially family. It's like they expect it and think it's owed to them somehow. 
The only thing that usually changes them is a dose of reality - paying their own way. The sad thing is, my brother never seems to have learned his lesson. He's now unemployed, again, and homeless once again after doing the same type of thing to his own son this time. We've all helped him and given him a home at one time - he never seems to learn - but we have all learned a valuable lesson ourselves. Free rent doesn't make people responsible, it usually just makes them lazy users with a sense of entitlement - we learned that the hard way.


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

Well, the mobile home a freaking mess. And, I expected that. They are just low life trash, and they treated the mobile home the same. Mrs. Tennant's grandparents had over 20 kids that they raised in a home with no type of indoor plumbing, and what would be considered condemnable conditions today. I guess the apples and their seeds never rolled too far from the tree. 

The first thing we had to do this am was get bug bombs, because they had multiple cats in there and the fleas are outrageous. If I had known, (kicking myself in the hiney) that they were that bad, I would have had MI CPS in there. DS went over this am to check and took my DGS in the house and set the carseat on the living room floor. They were in there about 5 minutes to do a quick assessment, and when they came out, DS sweats were peppered with fleas. They were shocked to find about 20 on the baby. Everyone came home and changed clothes on the deck, including DGS's clothes.

They never fixed a leaky faucet, it has wrecked the island and lower cupboards in the kitchen. Lower cupboard doors removed from the cabinets, too. 

Multiple broken/missing windows. No screens anywhere to be found. The frames around the windows have multiple staples in them where they had something tacked over them. I don't understand, because the windows never leaked, but I guess if the storm windows were destroyed... 

They tub had apparently leaked, as there is a pallet to step on to get into the tub in the bathroom. Multiple soft spots in the floor. 

Such a palacial estate Mrs. Tennant had set up.

The electricity is turned off, and most of the lightbulbs were removed from the sockets. DS has to call tomorrow to follow up with the electric. I may have to provide a lease to get it in DS name. 

The propane has a lock on it, and that's just fine. Mr. Tennants mom explained this: Mrs. Tennant had paid for the propane in the tank. Whoever moves in can pay the propane company for what they use. I guess that Mrs. Tennant would be reimbursed for what gets used. 

IMHO (LMAO) it would be a cold day in Hades if DS is going to do that. I don't care if the existing propane is cheaper. He is not going to get the same company. They can yank it off the property with Mrs. Tennant's propane in it. Or maybe I will hook onto it with the tractor and drag it to the curb? (No, I won't, but I feel like it.) IDK how long the tank will set, but DS won't take over their payments. I will have to find out how to get it permanently removed. 

DS is going to move in, and the first thing he is going to have to do is rip out the nasty stinking carpet. The USED carpet that they put in there, and were threatening to take out. I should have insisted they take it.

Then they will have to replace what ever plumbing that needs repairs in addition to any flooring that needs to come up. It's not going to be an overnight fix. 

Oh, and they will need to buy a stove, fridge and washer and dryer. 

I am quite certain that a gas range can be switched back and forth from LP to natural gas with a change of an orfice, IIRC. Hopefully we can find one that has ran on LP before, as I know what ever propane company they call will insist on an inspection of the furnace and the gas stove prior to hooking up the propane. 

Shew...this has been a very dramatic summer at my house, ROFLMBO, but at least MR. & MRS. Nasty Tennant are out.

DS knows he will be expected to have a lease, and some of the highlights will be


animals
specific payment amounts
length of lease
who can live there
inspection reminders

I know there are others that I should include, but these are the top ones right now. 

DS has many friends and acquaintences who are more than willing to help repair the home and get it into "living condition".

Last but not leased (pun intended here), we did find out that Mr. & Mrs. Tennant and 3 kiddos and IDK how many cats and dogs, have moved into Mr. Tennant's chronic alcoholic grandma's home with grandma. Grandma stays too drunk and smokes to heavily to have much constant awareness of her surroundings. I'm not exaggerating, merely stating a fact. 

Thanks everyone for reading about my dirty laundry this summer, I know it's been an interesting read. I hope that through all of this someone besides myself has learned some lessons.


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## SpaceCadet12364 (Apr 27, 2003)

Ken, is the tank a rental from some company, or do you actually own the tank? If it is a rental tank, call the company and have them come get it. They will have to pump out the propane first before moving it of course....explain the situation, the tank company should have the info for the Tennants that paid for the last delivery. That way, they can withhold the fee for reverse pumping the propane from the credit for the propane they receive....and Mr/Mrs Tennant can worry about getting their money back from the tank rental co. Not your problem, Id think.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I'm sorry you now have a mess, but glad you have finally evicted the renters from ***l.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

glad its over---and i hope it doesnt cost too much to fix back up. if you are going to keep letting the people rent the hay field get something in writing. good luck


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