# got a question about a bull...



## Bambitski (Mar 16, 2012)

I have a 22 month old Highland Bull. We got him because of all of the benefits of the Highland, but he doesn't seem to be able to get ahold of the heifers. He is a smaller one apparently, or so we have been told. Doesn't seem much smaller than the ones from where we bought him.
So, we went out and got a 6 month old Charolais bull to put in with the girls. The girls are all Charolais/Angus mix. He is very interested in them. But the Highland bull is more interested in the young bull. 
I have been told that bull meat is hormony. True? I don't like a strong taste to my beef. I have tried for almost 3 months to sell the bull. No one here is interested in him. He is a good looking boy, just doesn't seem to be able to take care of the girls. At least not my girls.
What should I do? Keep lowering the price till someone buys him? Have him cut and eventually eat him? What? I keep putting feed into him, I feed the girls and younger girls at the same time, and I can't leave him in a pen by himself. So, he is costing me money with no output.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

He just may have been to young, I have had young bulls have no intrest in cows and heifers for awhile. Then all of the sudden, they do. I also had a bull I never saw breed a cow, he was modest I guess, he got the cows all bred at night I think. Bulls are very good butchered, they don`t have a strong taste. Deer meat has more of a strong taste than bulls do. We ate out last Jersey bull, and he was four years old and was used to breed two years. keep him and eat him. Fatten him up some more first. > Thanks Marc P.S. I think I would butcher the other bull if it was me, I do not like charolais.


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## Bambitski (Mar 16, 2012)

LOL, my husband would KILL me if we butchered the Charolais. He comes from an awesome bull. His daddy is giagantic!! And has done a wonderful job for his owner for the last 3 years. The Charolais actually has a better personality with my husband too. The highland doesn't like my husband, only me. Could be that I have hand fed him treats for the whole time that we owned him. I wanted a calm bull since I have young children who sometimes help at feeding time. 
So, you think it will be alright to butcher him? Can anyone else give me an opinion on the taste of BULL meat? Can you tell I am scared?


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## bigbluegrass (Jan 11, 2011)

I will second what springvalley said. The oldest bull I have had was just under 3 years old. I couldn't taste anything in the meat. He had bred cows and was fully developed. My wife was worried it would be horrible, but she admitted later that it was some of the best beef she ever had. As a matter of fact, after that we stopped steering our bull calves. We are back to steering them again, but that is for other reasons.

The meat will be fine IMHO


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## Kato2010 (Jun 24, 2012)

Agree. It's not like boars. Bulls tend to be a bit leaner than steers of the same size, but other than that there's not much different. If he's almost two and not interested in the heifers, I wouldn't keep him on the speculation that he may get better, because you really won't be able to trust him. A bull who is slow to reach fertility will produce daughters that will also be slow, and you don't want that.


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## Bambitski (Mar 16, 2012)

I appreciate your input on it. I would LOVE to have the meat in the freezer and I didn't know that he would throw slow calves. Good point actually. I will run this info across my DH. He was at the point that he wanted to shoot him if I didn't get him sold by the beginning of October. I kept him on hold all this time while I tried to sell him. Thank you all.


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

Older bulls around here are called "bologna bulls" because they are so lean they are great to use in bologna to up the lean content. They are sought after for that purpose. Your bull should be tasty as the dickens.


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## opportunity (Mar 31, 2012)

I have butchered my bulls when they have sered there purpose. Thor (a registered highland) is in the freezer now he was 5 and had been breeding for 4 years when we butchered he is tough and has some flavor but he was old and huge. Before that we ate buddy he was three he was the best beef I ever had before that we had a bull from a family friends farm he broke his leg breeding a cow so we got to eat him very tasty


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Bulls don't go around trying to breed cows. Bulls are normally placid around the cows until one of them comes into heat. That starts a cycle of behavior in him and in her. That is important to understand, is that the cow sets the stage for breeding.

Cattle communicate by means of pheromones, odorless to us, but not to them. The cow outputs hormones that tell the bull it's time to breed. He begins courting her, following her everywhere. On the second day, he attempts to mate, but she won't allow it. Finally, on the third day, she comes into "standing heat" and stands for him. Mating takes place.

Note that she determines all this, especially when the mating takes place. At that time, her hormones are driving her to mate. She wants nothing more in the world than to mate with him at that time. She will even mount him.

Saying that the bull doesn't seem interested in the cow sounds like she is not giving off the signals. Saying that he's too small doesn;t fit, because she can reach him no matter how short he is. If the urges are working right, she'll find a way. Standing in a hole or even laying down.

How old are your heifers? Are you sure they are fully mature and are doing their part?

Bull beef is as good as steer beef. The reasons for steering a bull are to keep him mid mannered or to prevent him from breeding.

A bull will lay on muscle in a different pattern than a steer. Lots of people will leave the bull uncut for as long as possible in order to take advantage of how a bull puts on muscle.

If it was me. I'd let the Highland and Charolais bull coexist as long as they don't cause trouble. Then whoever breeds the heifers ....

I'd prefer having the Highland breed the heifers, for the calves from him will be much smaller than from the Charolais bull. First time calving can be a problem with Charolais.

Plus the calves you'll get: They should come out black and polled from the Highland bull, but the Charolais bull will probably give you chocolate colored calves. The black calves usually bring more at the livestock market. Black color is dominant over red and polled is dominant over horned. The chocolate tint of Charolais/Angus is not a color, it's a color modification of black. A separate gene.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

"...and polled is dominant over horned..."

I thought the opposite.

I am using a rented bull for the third year on my small herd. Dehorned as a calf. All of my girls are polled (OK, one has scurs). Well over half of calves have horns.


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

A polled cow can be homozygous polled, meaning that she has both genes for polled. Obviously she will be polled, since she doesn't have a horned gene.

She can instead be heterozygous polled, meaning she has one polled gene and one horned gene. She will be polled, since the polled gene is dominant. However, she does carry a horned gene, so it's a 50/50 chance whether she passes a horned gene or a polled gene to her calf.

Your rented bull is horned, meaning he has two horned genes. He will always give his calf a horned gene. Dehorning has nothing to do with this.

So your homozygous polled cows will always throw a polled calf that carries the horned gene from it's sire.

Your heterozygous polled cows will throw a polled calf about 1/2 the time and the other 1/2 of her calves will get a horned gene from her plus the horned gene it will get from the sire. It will then be horned, since it has two horned genes, no polled gene.

Your results of around 1/2 of your calves having horns indicates that you don't have very many homozygous polled cows in your herd.

Purebred Angus are all homozygous polled. Crosses from them to a horned breed, like a horned Hereford, will produce all heterozygous polled offspring. Your cows are probably the result of similar breeding.

Scurs are recessive to horns. Only polled cattle can have scurs. Scurs aren't horns at all. They are a different type of growth that is not connected to the skull like a horn is.

Some say that having scurs is an indication that your cow is homozygous polled. There is no reliable test for proving homozygous polledness, so that may or may not be true.

If you are that interested, you can check with the test labs. Some offer a test for homozygous polledness for Angus related breeds that isn't an absolute answer, but is a strong indicator.


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## Bambitski (Mar 16, 2012)

WOW, that is a lot of information. I definitely learn something new on this forum everyday.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Your intending to use a 6 month old bull to breed your heifers?


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## Bambitski (Mar 16, 2012)

Not at this moment, No. He is for when he is older. I only have 3 heifers and 2 bulls at present. We are getting them as we have the extra money. If that makes sense. We didn't see the need to put ourselves in debt and go full out. But since there are so few, we hate to seperate them and have issues with them not growing properly or such. I had read that when you raise an animal on its own, it didn't develop properly. So, the bulls are in with the heifers.
Now, I do know that at 6 months old, he is able to do the job. But we didn't put him there with the plan that he was to do the job. Does any of this make sense? I know what I am trying to say, but not sure if I am getting it out where anyone else understands what goes through my head.


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## Chixarecute (Nov 19, 2004)

6 mos old is a bit young to do the job. It happens, but not frequently. He's not a teen ager yet. By 8 mos he may be showing interest, by 10 month will probably perform somewhat consistently.


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## Bambitski (Mar 16, 2012)

I respect that most of you know more than I do on this, this is the reason why I asked my question here. I learn something new everyday from this forum. Quite a bit actually. What I originally was questioning was on the meat quality of a Bull versus a Steer and if I butchered him would the meat be any good. 
I have come to the conclusion that I shouldn't and won't have two bulls for such a low number of Heifers. I just didn't know if it would be worth the trouble to butcher a bull for home use or just keep trying to sell him. I really do love the little bugger, but when it comes to expenses, it really isn't worth keeping him around. The heifers are 16 and 17 months old. They should in all rights, be bred by now. Yet they still go into heat every 18-22 days. Yes, I sit out there and watch their wa was. LOL This is a future business adventure to add a little to the income of my family. Or at least I hope it is. I don't plan on getting rich, just to add a little in the long run. At this point, I am feeding 5 head of cattle, and not looking at anything for probably the next year. I have fed the older bull for the last 19 months, and he has no output to show for it. What would you all do? Would you keep a bull who has not been able to do the job all this time, or would you cut your loss and maybe put a little food in the freezer for your family? 
I know that the young bull probably won't do the job just yet, but I have accepted the cost of waiting for him to do the job. The older bull though is more interested in the young bull than the heifers. So again, what would an experienced cattle person do? 
He will be going to freezer camp in the next month. I have to at least get something out of all the grain and hay I have put into him. I hate it, but the children are even in agreement that "fluffy" (what my 5 year old named him when we got him) would make a good steak.


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## lakeportfarms (Apr 23, 2009)

Genebo answered most of your questions...all other things being equal young bulls don't produce beef that is different from a steer. It's about managing your herd to keep less desirable bulls from breeding your cows.

Highlands usually mature pretty slowly. We have Highlands and I've seen bulls with breeding tendencies at 1 year of age and Highlands who at 3 years old are more interested in fighting the other bulls rather than breeding. Your Highland may still develop the desire. Holding him a while longer will mean he'll grow more since he's still pretty young. You could finish him off in June, and he may give you an additional 300 lbs of beef by then. Is that worth it to you? It depends on what it will cost to feed him over the winter... The advantage to June is that he'll have a couple of months of nice grazing before he goes to the freezer, and you may find he'll actually breed your cows in the meantime.

It's also important not to have calving issues that could result in the loss of your heifer and calf, if the Charlolais throws large calves you could be in for a mess. The Highland will likely produce lower birth weight calves.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

You sure there is a bull under all that hair? Highlands are slow to mature as I understand it. The charlai will eventually breed them, more bull then I would breed heifers to though. I would have some woolly steaks and burgers from the highland.


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## Bambitski (Mar 16, 2012)

LOL, Yeah, I have seen it hang out while he is trying to ride the young bull. LOL
You mean I should wait until the bull is almost 3 before I should butcher him? Isn't that kinda old to have decent meat? And you think he will grow 300 more lbs. at his age? I really didn't know that he would grow that much at such a late age. I figured that he was pretty much up to size at 2 years of age. Hmmmmm....maybe I should research this further. I might not be thinking correctly about this.


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

Bambitski said:


> You mean I should wait until the bull is almost 3 before I should butcher him? Isn't that kinda old to have decent meat? And you think he will grow 300 more lbs. at his age? I really didn't know that he would grow that much at such a late age. I figured that he was pretty much up to size at 2 years of age. Hmmmmm....maybe I should research this further. I might not be thinking correctly about this.


From what little I know of highland cattle, they are slower to grow and slower to mature (physically, sexually, etc) than a standard beef breed of cattle. Most cattlemen will not use a bull for breeding until he's at least 2 years old, even though he can perform long before that. So, your highland may take 3 years to show interest in breeding.

A Charolais bull may through a calf too big for your cows to deliver, but not always. Part of it depends on what his birthweight and the birthweight of his siblings was/is. A low birthweight (Charolais) bull may throw low birthweight calves that your heifers can handle, but most likely not. You should NEVER use a larger breed bull on heifers of a smaller breed.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

The highlands Ive had have grown until 3 years of age, and many didnt breed until at least 2 years.


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## Bambitski (Mar 16, 2012)

Two of the girls are Charolais/Angus crosses the other one is a Charolais/Limousin cross.


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

Bambitski said:


> Two of the girls are Charolais/Angus crosses the other one is a Charolais/Limousin cross.


A Charolais/Angus cross is still going to be a smaller breed than a purebred Charolais and may be too small for a Charolais bull. The Charolais/Limousin cross will more likely be able to calve with ease.


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## Bambitski (Mar 16, 2012)

Oh, thank you. I really didn't realize that there was that much size difference between the two. I know that the girls mommas were the Angus though. The man we bought them from didn't have an Angus Bull with his cows.


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## SpaceCadet12364 (Apr 27, 2003)

Angus BW 50-80 lbs typically
Charolais BW 80-100
Limousin BW 75-95
Highlands 50-80 
So if the Bull throws bigger than average calf cow can/will need assistance at birth.

Also since these are heifers you might want have a vet check if they are free martins and if they are you might want to put them in the freezer.


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## SpaceCadet12364 (Apr 27, 2003)

Chixarecute said:


> 6 mos old is a bit young to do the job. It happens, but not frequently. He's not a teen ager yet. By 8 mos he may be showing interest, by 10 month will probably perform somewhat consistently.


And....with a bull that is much younger than your ladies, even if he is interested and able, they may NOT be. There may end up being a period that he would have to work to establish himself in the pecking order first, before some cows will allow him to do his "work".

Had that happen with our first bull, the head cow was more seasoned, and the others didnt seem to care. But she did. After he FINALLY won a session of headbutting/pushing around out in the pasture, about 9 months later...voila! She had her first calf from him.


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## Bambitski (Mar 16, 2012)

Well, now I am not sure what we will do with him. DH is almost assured that it may be a good idea to keep him around for a little longer. So, I guess feeding 2 bulls is in order for the winter. 
Thank you all for so much information. I had heard of free martins, but it never crossed my mind that one of my girls could be one. I plan on calling the vet and seeing what I need to do to check my girls. One is a little bully at times, to the bulls as well as to other heifers out there.


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## BeeFree (Feb 23, 2004)

We have had Charolais bulls before, 2 to be exact and after losing some calfs and some of the mothers, we decide that Charolais was not for us. We tried a Herford and the mothers had the calfs good, but it seemed like it took forever for them to grow out, and they didn't bring as much when sold. Finally we started getting Angus bulls. Once in a blue moon we have a problem with calving, but not bad. We don't like to breed out heifers until they are near 2 yr old. It seems to take too much out of them if you breed them too soon. We had one angus bull, we never did find him breeding. Hubby got mad and sold him. He bought another bull. About 4 to 5 months later the cows started having calves. The bull he sold was shy and only done his thing when no one was watching. LOL


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