# Do you Know?



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

There are other bee forums on the internet!
Many of them have a huge number of members with all kinds of ideas! Lots of infighting on them too.

Many of us like it *HERE *where there are several experinced bee keepers from a wide spectrum of the USA & Canada. We do however lack in the Top Bar Hive area.

When questions pop up from new people we make every effort to answer those questions *despite the fact people will not provide a location*.
A location is really important since the USA has a deverse weather pattern thru out the country.
So All of you that want to send every one to those other bee sites Please stop doing it. 

If I were a moderator I would delete all the post telling people to go some where else. I would warn you about doing it and if it happened again I would ban you from here. Sorry just how I feel about the steerage crap.
I don't under stand why ya'll want to be here in the first place if ya'll think those places you are steering people to are so great.

I own 12 books on bee keeping. If I or another experinced bee keeper doesn't know an answer to a questions I or an other can look it up in our books.

 Al


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

al for beekeeping moderator:clap:

dont stress to much about it i dont think its ever going to change
i think its just a way some people make a living kind of like telemarketers
they promote a site which then earns them income in the way of advertising
*spammers*

for others its impolite but innocent just wanting to share a place that they
thought was good. 

:bdh:


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Well I have over looked it for a long time, bit my tongue so to speak.

I am now finally grown tired of it.

Look at it like your trying to sell a cow perhaps but your next door neighbour is standing on your porch telling every one that Darl Dumas the next mile over has a cow for sale better & cheaper than yours.

 Al


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

Not quite sure what you're so up in arms about. 

Much can be learned or better answered in other areas. To seek the prevention of knowledge by not allowing any referencing to outside sources is petty and downright stupid. I've certainly seen you link any number of times to outside sources.


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## Elizabeth (Jun 4, 2002)

I'm with Al on this. I think it is enormously rude for someone to post a link to his own website every time someone asks questions here. If posters want to contribute to THIS forum, they should do it HERE. Posting external links is like posting spam and I agree that they should be prohibited. We are very fortunate here in that we enjoy a real sense of community which a lot of other forums lack. I like that and would like it to continue. Certainly, anyone who has something to contribute is always welcome, but if he/she does not want to become a part of THIS community, why bother posting?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Posting a link to a site that tells how to make pollen patties or candy boards how to build some thing a state beekeeping web site is a far cry from posting links to another forum.

Never less I can just stop coming here if enough people want. Since I spend so much time trying to post pictures and such on how thing are done at our apiary I some times fall behind on things my family needs.
That way the people who send people to other sites won't bother me any longer.

 Al


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## DoubleBee (Nov 13, 2006)

Al, I just started asking questions here. You can't leave. 
I'd love to see photos of your bee yard. 

I appreciate the posters here.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

We have 10 out yards plus the 25 colonies in our front and back yard.
We also had a fellow call us a few days ago asking if we needed a place for bees this coming summer. He is a hay farmer mostly but his family raises a big garden.

Some at the horse farm.









Another bunch but not all, at the Christmas tree farm.









A ladies back yard, she came to a talk I gave on Honey bees at a nature center. We have some at a green house less than a mile away.









What we call the Stone yard as that is the name of the people who own the land.









Our winter back yard.









Thats some I have up loaded at this time.

 Al


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

Elizabeth said:


> *I'm with Al on this. I think it is enormously rude for someone to post a link to his own website every time someone asks questions here. If posters want to contribute to THIS forum, they should do it HERE.* Posting external links is like posting spam and I agree that they should be prohibited. We are very fortunate here in that we enjoy a real sense of community which a lot of other forums lack. I like that and would like it to continue. Certainly, anyone who has something to contribute is always welcome, but if he/she does not want to become a part of THIS community, why bother posting?


i did not think that this is what al was talking about as he mentioned in his
post below yours and if it was i guess im guilty but if the same questions
are asked over and over again it only makes sense to save your answer
and imformation so that it is easily referenced especially if it some how to
imformation and if it is not on your own web space you never can be sure
you have it when you want it.


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## DoubleBee (Nov 13, 2006)

Thanks Al. 
It looks like you have your hands full with bee hives. Do you sell honey as a business? I'm just curious, with so many hives. 

I just wanted to get a couple hives going as a hobby beekeeper.
I wasn't sure how many I could take care of, and I don't want to push my luck having too many here at home, since I'm in city limits of a small town. I made it through one summer with no complaints, but this is one of towns that likes to control, control, control. 
I have some acreage 16 miles from home, but I need to wait to see if I am physically able to take care of more hives.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Yes I do sell honey but if I were to try making a living out of it I would starve not to mention the wife who normally works along side of me.
I make much more money easier from the wax and proplis.

I have read that a bee keeper all alone except for extracting time can handle 500 colonies. I have a friend that does just that, works 500 colonies hires two retired fellows to help pull honey supers, extract and reset the honey supers or stack them for winter storage. He told me it keeps him out of trouble.

Keep what you want and when you find it is too much sell a colony or what ever. 
We have bought complete colonies from people who for one reason or another had to sell.

 Al


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## DoubleBee (Nov 13, 2006)

You're the first I've heard from that collects and sells propolis.
Is it worthwhile?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

$12.00 a pound, not a whole lot of labor if you use the proplis traps. the company also pays for the shipping just like the people who buy my wax.

 Al


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## Durandal (Aug 19, 2007)

I use this forum for a source of information just as much as any other. I like the others as much for different reasons.

No harm and no foul there. If there is a thread that tackles a discussion I see no harm in it.

I think Michael does the whole "post a link to his website as a answer to a question" because that is the way he does things.

He site is a great site for information. I have done the same in terms of sugar shakes for vorroa control, going as far as to post videos on Youtube detailing it. This is not the only forum I post on either. Does that matter?

If you get your angry about that I question what the purpose is for using this forum as an information source.

I think Alley has a done a great job getting this forum organized and sharing his slice of beekeeping way of life (I always enjoy seeing more pics of your operation Alley).

That said, this community will grow and change like any other, I think the less you resist it the more healthy it becomes.

All in all I see a whole lot of negativity in the thread by a few and think that this is not healthy.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I am not a beekeeper: I am a hobby farmer who also keeps bees!

Yes, I have visited the other bee sites, and I have enjoyed them. But, I really am more simpatico with the people here. So, I stay here unless I feel the need for extra information, which is rare because this is a pretty good site! 

When I had dreams of keeping bees on a more commercial basis I spent a good deal of time on the other bee sites. I wanted to know everything about everybodies operations, because I knew that some day I might want to do the same. 

But, now that I have decided to stay small, I have decided to be content to know *MY* operation, and I am well satisfied to be able to ask the odd question of my fellow bee keepers!

OH! Amended to add: 9acres, you can check your towns policy on bees without attracting notice on-line. I found my communities policies under "animal control". I am allowed a limited number of hives, which is fine, but I do not want them to get too interested because there is a setback requirement from houses, and I am not sure that I meet that! And, I have no intention of running a tape measure from my neighbors house to my bees, as it MIGHT not be enough, maybe, and I do not want thoughts moving in that direction!


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## DoubleBee (Nov 13, 2006)

Terry, my town used to have an ordinance that did not allow "farm animals" in city limits. They just recently re-wrote the code book and that ordinance was dropped. They only have a "no farm animal" ordinance within so many miles of the city's lake. (McMansion-ites reside there)

We now just have dog ordinances in town. But, it would be possible for beekeeping to fall under the "nuisance" ordinance.
So far, the neighbors that know about my bees are ok with them. But I know it only takes one to complain. 
So I try to keep them out of site, as much as possible.

I also just wanted to say that I appreciate Al and the help he gives, and also appreciate Michael and his website.
I'm here to learn and the more help I can get, the better.


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## thorsgurl75 (Dec 13, 2008)

This has been my go to place for my first time having goats, chickens, pigs and now bees.I used to post under my DH account.This place has always given me friendly sound advice that I trust so I see no need to go anywhere else.
I do wish they had a brewing section I love to brew beer and mead I would never go anywhere else if they had that..lol.
:viking: Rachel


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

I think there is a time and a place for links. I have posted a few when the other site is lengthy and I don't want to type for an hour. I try to keep each site separate, tho, and only link when I feel there is a need.

As for Micheal Bush, he has posted over 20,000 posts on one site, answering the same questions over and over and over. He finally set his site up in sections to answer those constantly repeated questions, and links to it when he has a full explanation of a particular question on his site.

Basically, he could have answered 10,000 or more questions with "do a search", but that's not micheal. He tries to help everyone.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

The complaint was not about posting links to other helpful web pages. *The complaint was posting links to other forums.* Or just telling about them.
As I said it is like you trying to sell your cow and your neighbour standing on *your*porch and telling customers that Danny Dumas has a better cow the next mile over for sale.
Ya the other forums are far bigger but I don't think they are better.

 Al


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## Michael Bush (Oct 26, 2008)

As to alleyyooper's original complaint, I try to avoid referring to other forums without good reason, but there are some that have some general information on them that is very helpful, such as plans or videos etc. So it's hard to avoid that altogether and still answer people's questions sometimes.

I realize this may not be alleyyooper's orignial complaint, but it seems to have come up in this discussion.

I've always figured it was kind of rude for me to post the same five page answer to a complex but commonly asked question over and over again. Not to mention I get tired of rethinking the same question. Those who have already read my answer don't really want to see it again, I don't want to take up pages of space on someone's forum, but the carefully thought out answer to the question is that long. The short simplified version of the answer isn't really true as everything in beekeeping is more complex than simple. So I figure posting the link leaves everyone who has read it before or simply doesn't care about my opinon the option to ignore it and everyone who would like to read it, the option to read it. I am more than happy to do either of the following three things:

o Save my time and read and post on one less forum (as I can barely keep up with the seven I'm currently involved with).

o Cut and paste the entire page of information every time the same question is asked.

o Give a curt, incomplete and somewhat erroneously overly simplified answer.

Any preferences?


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

>>>>Any preferences?<<<<

Yes, number 4....Continue as before.


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## DoubleBee (Nov 13, 2006)

I agree with Iddee.


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## Michael Bush (Oct 26, 2008)

I suppose that is another option...


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## Durandal (Aug 19, 2007)

I agree also...


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Dec 31, 2008)

This is a really nice site, there is a lot more information here for all the different interests I have. I may be lurking about here for awhile, I don't like the treatment Iddee has received today 'over there'  Perhaps I only need to cool off.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Half of the time when I have a question I type it into Google. So I end up reading six different sites anyway.

I would like to add, I was at a beekeeping workshop this past fall. And the presenter said that he enjoys beekeeping; he is all in favor of hobby beekeepers; . and that it is a great hobby. But many of us in the audience were looking to making a profit from our bees. And he said that the most small bee operations, have 5 to 10 hives, and sell honey and wax. But their honey and wax is bought from one of the big beekeepers.

The small keepers are so focused on trying to keep their hives running. It takes a lot of effort to extract honey, the return on investment is less than the investment.

The return on your time and labor is less than minimum wage. It simply does not make sense to keep bees as a small business.

He sells a lot of his honey to other beekeepers. They mix it with their own honey, bottle it, and sell it to the public.

He has over 1500 hives. He trucks hives to Georgia and Florida to over winter, and back up to Maine for the season here. He says that his real profit comes from fees to the farmers.

To his business model: the honey, wax, proplis are a by-product. He could bury the 'product' in a land-fill and still stay in business. For him marketing these products takes away from his profitable business.

He also breeds queens and nucs. He needs a lot of new queens for his own re-queening each year. So it is a part of his operation. Marketing queens and nucs is not a big profit for him, but at least it merges nicely with his operation.

He runs weekend classes for new beekeepers, teaching them and setting them up with hives.

He sees small beekeepers failing every year, as it costs more money and time to get a pound of honey, then you can get on the open market.

At a farm stand customer sees your honey, asks if you keep bees, and buys your product. You are honest in answering that you do keep bees, you do harvest honey, wax and proplis, and you bottle it for sale.


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## Me Beekeeper (Jan 6, 2009)

I've been on several forums. I've only been on this one for a couple weeks, but have read through most of the blogs. I see a pleasant attitude here with good answers to all the questions. I don't see anyone being sarcastic or disrespectful to one another, even in jest. I think this sets the tone for many of the forums I've been on. When friends get on each others case, others might misinterpret this. And it creates a less friendly atmosphere for the rest. So, I do like this forum. As I sideliner, I feel I have something to perhaps offer, but will always have something to learn. Beekeeping is like technology, it's a constant evolution. We need to stay on top of it or we'll get buried.

Keep up the good work - Admin's :rock:


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## sellis (Apr 7, 2006)

im sorry i dont agree , i think that in the beekeeping world one should have as much access to all information available , not just 2 or 3 beekeepers , just because u may have a problem with other boards doesnt mean others do .scott


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