# How many acres needed for retirement homestead (not farm)



## mainehomesteader (Feb 7, 2015)

I'm 69, retired, am saving money for land purchase 14 months from now. It will be in Maine, probably north central Maine (Aroostock County). I plan to grow a garden, have a greenhouse (possibly built into the house, which will be passive solar with or without the greenhouse). I am planning on having a separate root cellar, a dirt-floor barn/workshop. No livestock. Chickens, yes, and possibly some other types of small meat animal. I plan to be off-grid. I will have a smallish PV/battery system for computer, phone, and some LED lights. I will have a portable generator for my construction tools. 

I'm hoping to find land with some kind of water on it or running through it. I'm studying geological formations to help me find land that could have a water table within 40 feet of the surface so i can drive a wellpoint. I want to use a windmill to pump water or to help with the PV/battery system, in which case I would use a DC water pump to pump the well. I'll have another DC pump possibly, for use with the solar hot water heater.

I'm not planning on a septic system. I will use humanure composting for sold wastes, and will collect and distribute the liquid human waste, which is a great source of nitrogen.

My house heater will be a masonry heater, and it should not require more than a couple cords of wood per year, as the house will be on the small size.

I want the chickens and small meat animals - whatever I choose to augment the chickens - to feed themselves on the land. I don't want to buy feed, unless I must, during the winter. I want the animals to reproduce so my meat source will be self-sustaining.

I'm not planning to grow anything beyond what I need for myself. I will probably want fruit trees, berry bushes, the garden, the greenhouse for year-round fresh veggies (it can be a detached greenhouse and still do that).
I want to harvest rainwater. I want land that has running water on it, but that might be too expensive. 

My question is, then, what's the minimum # of acres I would need? I'm thinking ten, tops, with most of it being in woods, and maybe just an acre or two clear.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

As long as you can find an area zoned for the type of residence area you desire, there is probably no reason that you couldn't follow a plan similar to what 20 to 60 acre family farms followed up into the mid 20th century with minor adjustments.

As small farms generally had their 10 to 20 acre cash crop and animal feed fields surrounding a two to three acre residence and service stock area with house, kitchen garden, poultry area and horse and milk cow barns and out house, as a retirement venture you could concentrate on applicable aspects of the residential area and instead of cash crop and stock feed fields , you could consider stands of hardwood timber from which you could select a few trees to fell and collect dead fall limbs for a mixed selection of wood for heating use while reseeding your timber stands if needed.

A few timber stands instead of crop fields might also add to the privacy factor of the couple acre residential area depending on their location.

Timber stands could also allow you to augment your kitchen garden yield with home place taken venison, squirrel , rabbit and migratory fowl if you wanted.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

mainehomesteader said:


> I'm 69, retired, am saving money for land purchase 14 months from now. It will be in Maine, probably north central Maine (Aroostock County).


Welcome.

We have 150 acres in Penobscot County, in the Southern half of Maine about 20 miles North of Bangor. 1/4 mile riverfrontage on the Penobscot River.

There are some really good deals of forest land in Maine. We got two parcels of land. One for $350/acre the other for $900/acre. Taxes are extremely low as well, $1.05/acre of treegrowth land.

Make sure that you design your house to be net-zero. You would not believe how many of my neighbors burn through 10 to 15 cords of firewood each year. When net-zero is available, why choose to pay for heat and power?

We use Solar-power. We have been using a woodstove for heat, between 3 and 4 cords of wood /year. This year we are putting in an Active Solar-Thermal array, which we hope will bring our wood consumption down to only what we use for cooking. Our house is 2400 sq ft.

Around here you can not dig more than a foot deep without hitting water. Best to go 40 foot though to get cleaner water. Our well driller dug 250 foot to find a solid rock to set the well casing onto, the water level in the well is 68 foot. We have two creeks that flow across our land.

We have a composting toilet, though also a septic system. One of our neighbors just put in a new outhouse. He got it permitted and inspected too. Our Grange hall has a three-hole indoor facility 

A number of market gardeners I know use night soil in their gardens.

Russian / Finnish masonry heaters tend to smoke up a bit. Make sure you design it in a way so you can get inside and clean out the soot twice a year.

Maine is 92% forest. The forest is loaded with predators. Every time we have let our chicken loose to free-range they never last beyond 2 weeks.

There is also a steep learning curve on getting chickens to successfully reproduce. I have been working on that puzzle for 10 years. [Austrolorps, Cochins, Silkies, game hens] It has taken us a long time to get hens that will stay broody long enough to hatch a clutch. This year our hens hatched out 12 chicks, none of which survived a week. Now that we have hens that will brood long enough, we need them to figure out mothering. So much for 2016. Maybe 2017 will be better.

A "greenhouse for year-round fresh veggies": I attend workshops every year with a lot of other market farmers. This is a common dream among us. You will consume a lot of heating fuel and electricity for lighting, chasing this dream. 



> ... I want to harvest rainwater


 I see you are not familiar with Maine. Rain barrels work great in summer. But there is no water shortage in Maine. So we must ask why?

Any barrel with water in it, over winter, will split open. I have tried this myself. I have ruined steel drums by 'storing' water in them.





> ... My question is, then, what's the minimum # of acres I would need? I'm thinking ten, tops, with most of it being in woods, and maybe just an acre or two clear.


If you wanted to garden for a living, selling fresh produce in a Farmer's Market. You can support a family from gardening 5 acres. I sell our surplus in a FM, I know other vendors who do it all with farms of that size.


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## mainehomesteader (Feb 7, 2015)

I would love to find some forest land for $350/acre. Where do I look? I could afford 40 acres priced like that. I've been looking on Zillow, and I thought I would drive in my pickup and look for attractive land and hope to see a sign. Or lacking a sign, take GPS coordinates and try to find the landowner at the county office. Do you have a suggestion?

Yeah, I misspoke about rain harvest. I really want to drive a well point and use a DC pump. Maybe the rain barrels would be a good option for summer, as well, for the garden and greenhouse.

Eliot Coleman and Helen/Scott Nearing had tremendous success growing fresh vegetables year-round in Maine. I believe Eliot is still doing it. Without heat or electricity. 

Russian masonry heaters actually are notoriously clean-burning, rarely needing to be cleaned out. Their burn chambers are rated for over 2000 degrees fahrenheit which makes the wood burn smoke- and soot- free. There are some hippie versions of this stove that are called rocket stoves, using a metal barrel that reduces the fire chamber temperatures down to where the wood has no option but to smolder. Those are not masonry heaters. A masonry heater has to use refractory brick or concrete to withstand the high temps.

I guess I'll find out about the chickens. 

I'm planning to live like they did before 1920 - without refrigeration or a freezer (or a washing machine, or a microwave, or a coffee maker, or a blender, etc etc) and haven't really gotten it all figured out yet. For example, how will I provide a steady supply of meat for myself? I'm looking into it. I have 14 months before it's time to buy some land and move to it.

The land will just be for homesteading, not farming. I have SS until the ruling elite steal it or our government collapses or our leaders finally succeed in getting us all blown up. I want to be self-sufficient, perhaps with some bartering with the neighbors for stuff I can't provide .myself.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

mainehomesteader said:


> ... Eliot Coleman and Helen/Scott Nearing had tremendous success growing fresh vegetables year-round in Maine. I believe Eliot is still doing it. Without heat or electricity.


The Nearings lived in Vermont, began with a large trust, earned a living as authors, and hired others to do their gardening.

I am very familiar with Eliot and Barbara. They used to sell in a FM in Blue Hill, in the summers only. I am pretty sure they have never been vendors in any year-round market. They also earn most of their money as authors and as guest speakers.





> ... Russian masonry heaters actually are notoriously clean-burning, rarely needing to be cleaned out. Their burn chambers are rated for over 2000 degrees fahrenheit which makes the wood burn smoke- and soot- free.


You may wish to speak with people who actually use them.

Good luck. It sounds like you have all the answers.


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## WoodsDweller (Jun 15, 2016)

10 acres will do all that and then some easily.


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## mainehomesteader (Feb 7, 2015)

ET1 SS said:


> The Nearings lived in Vermont, began with a large trust, earned a living as authors, and hired others to do their gardening.
> 
> I am very familiar with Eliot and Barbara. They used to sell in a FM in Blue Hill, in the summers only. I am pretty sure they have never been vendors in any year-round market. They also earn most of their money as authors and as guest speakers.
> 
> ...


The Nearings moved to Maine from Vermont. They never hired gardeners, but lots of people came and worked with them on their places as volunteers. They wrote a lot of books.

My understanding is that the Colemans had both cold and heated greenhouses and supplied many restaurants and markets in the winters here.

I was thinking you have all the answers, but not to the question I asked. I don't really care to hear from you again, rude man, so don't worry about it.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

WoodsDweller said:


> 10 acres will do all that and then some easily.


I agree 10 acres is plenty for yourself, 1 acre at most for gardening, fruit trees, etc. The rest for a buffer, hunting, etc. A place to fish close by. I have more but not needed except for horse's, great compost. Very simple to live on 10 acres.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

mainehomesteader said:


> The Nearings moved to Maine from Vermont. They never hired gardeners, but lots of people came and worked with them on their places as volunteers. They wrote a lot of books.


The Nearings did write a lot, that was how they supported themselves and their staff.





> ... My understanding is that the Colemans had both cold and heated greenhouses and supplied many restaurants and markets in the winters here.


I was a vendor in the Orono FM at a time when it was the only year-round FM in Maine.

I know vendors in the Blue Hill FM, I do not believe it has ever been year-round. Unless it started this past winter. We have recently seen a number of FMs start operating year-round.

Eliot and Barbara are often speakers at the Common Ground Fair.


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

not a good attitude, when you are trying to learn.


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## Midgard (Jan 23, 2015)

We have 40 acres which is a lot more than we need. We do not have livestock or chickens. We are off grid. We have a composting toilet but were required to get a septic system. Our water is gravity fed from a spring on the hill. We heat with wood. 

Five to ten acres would be more than adequate. Check on zoning. Check on water (ours had to be tested). Check on the availability of wood. 

Best of luck!


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## LostCaper (Oct 10, 2016)

Here in Canada they won't let you live of the grid. Well you have to make a stink to make a stink in an outhouse. Full time residence cannot have an outhouse. They make you put a $20000 Ceptic in and so on and so on. I am retired at 54 and we moved back to my wife homestead in eastern Canada. I am hoping to be self sufficient someday. The house is well kept and with all the modern stuff so I do not need an outhouse but I would like to supply my own electricity and firewood for heat. There is 23 acres overlooking a beautiful harbour. The fields were not kept up so I have some work to do but I have saws and a 47 h.p. kubota tractor so I have a good start to efficient tools. I do not have any great firewood per say but I am cutting wood on a neighbouring property. Good luck with your endeavours and enjoy the hard work along the way. It's a lot better then sitting in an office being driven to the brink by crazy people.


ET1 SS said:


> Welcome.
> 
> We have 150 acres in Penobscot County, in the Southern half of Maine about 20 miles North of Bangor. 1/4 mile riverfrontage on the Penobscot River.
> 
> ...


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## mainehomesteader (Feb 7, 2015)

What's up with Canada forbidding self-sufficiency? Sounds like maybe the oil companies own the politicians and want the citizens to depend on their products rather than not. I will definitely check zoning for permission to use a bucket humanure composting system.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

mainehomesteader said:


> What's up with Canada forbidding self-sufficiency? Sounds like maybe the oil companies own the politicians and want the citizens to depend on their products rather than not. I will definitely check zoning for permission to use a bucket humanure composting system.


It sounds odd from the Maine perspective. Maine is 92% forest and yet the government only owns a tiny percentage of this land, only around 6% is Federal or state-owned land. Nearly all land in Maine is privately owned. 52% of Maine towns specifically refuse to allow municipal regulations and the increased tax burden that follows. To date 40 Maine towns have 'dis-organized' for that very reason [I settled in one such township].

Most of the US states are not like this. Most forest land in the US is government owned and managed. To go out and buy a 2,000 acre tract of BLM land is an extremely difficult process.

Notice the recent news of ranchers who have been leasing BLM land for multiple generations. Never once were they ever allowed to buy any of that land, they were only allowed to lease, for a limited time.

When I lived in the PNW I looked at buying land in unpopulated areas. But it is mostly controlled by the government. I did look at buying old mining claims that are surrounded by BLM land, it is one of the few ways that a private person is allowed to own land in those unpopulated areas.

I toured British Columbia and I loved the area, but most of that land is Crown land. It is just as difficult to buy as BLM land is in the US.


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## LostCaper (Oct 10, 2016)

mainehomesteader said:


> What's up with Canada forbidding self-sufficiency? Sounds like maybe the oil companies own the politicians and want the citizens to depend on their products rather than not. I will definitely check zoning for permission to use a bucket humanure composting system.


That is the only thing I can think off. I suppose it is freer then a lot of places but it is not free. To own all the crown land and only lease it to the big logging companies is not democracy. As a matter of fact there was an article in the Atlantic Forestry Magazine there was a guy that goes around the world studying inequalities and injustice around the world. He looked at how the NewBrunswick government managed the crown lands and he said it was as unjust as anything else he seen in any other part of world. 

A friend of mine had 50 guys working for him cutting with saws. He was the biggest outfit in the maritimes who did manual cutting. It was all on crown land.. The government took all the crown and handed it over the to about 5 big mechanized company. Irving, Frazers and another I cannot think of right now. Free and fair country.... you decide. 

Here is Canada we are way to complacent. We are never more than one generations away from loosing our fundlemental freedoms. It is up to each generation to fight to keep it. I am afraid that Canadians are not doing a very good job of this.


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