# Do dry does have ANY udder?



## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

Hi, all

I have a one year old nubian/alpine cross who we tried to breed--and thought it failed.

She would be just over three months along, if she was pregnant....... 

I looked closer at her tonight b/c she is looking fatter to me. Where her teats are there is.....how can I describe....not a big udder, but there is a pooch that is soft. Do dry does have this always? I never noticed before...but I don't think I looked for it. If you run your hand along a goat's belly from front to back is it smooth and flat all the way to the end--where the teats are connected, too? Lilly, who is the same age and is either not pregnant or is one month behind does not have this--but she is alot thinner. Maybe just fatter does have this miniature udder, dry or pregnant? I hope I'm describing it right....the belly is flat all along until the last 6 inches or so there is a baglike.....well, bag....where the teats are. Normal on every goat or just pregnant ones?

Dee


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

I'm no goatiologist but my does have only tiny teats against a flat belly until they're pregnant.


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

Oh, reeeeeeeallllly?!!!

I've been convinced she didn't take. Spending all my time starin' at her non-changing vulva and posting pics of that! Her vulva doesn't look pregnant for sure.....but I never even looked at the udder area. I read stuff about "bagging up" happening in the last month. I don't even know what that really means. Filling up with milk? Developing the udder in the first place?

When do goats start developing an udder if pregnant? Not filling up with milk, but just getting one......

now you guys have me all excited again! :hobbyhors 

Dee


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

Well, don't take my word it - I only have 4 does and am just on my third breeding season. MY does don't get any udder until they're pregnant.

This years first timer had nothing then got a little pouch (barely there) about 6 weeks before due date, then has actually developed a little milk bag in the last 3 weeks. She's due any day now.

However - her vulva has looked pregnant for at least a month.

Did you try bumping her? Having asked, I'm not good at that myself. ;-)


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## crazygoatgirl (Dec 6, 2004)

I didn't see your pics you posted but I will tell you from experience what I look for ...The tip of the vulva on a pregnant doe will point downward (most of the time) and it won't be ugh....wrinkly it will be smooth. 
Udder development is a good sign of pregnancy. BUT if she is a fatty then she may be developing a fat pouch..... In reading your post it sounds like she is pregnant to me though.
When you have a bit and are in a patient mood stand by her belly and put your hand on the widest part of it and put a slight amount of pressure and release....you should be able to feel kids move...


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## cseger1 (Mar 23, 2007)

We have two does with "udders" who did not freshen this year. I'm still new enough not to know why completely, but assume they they just never completely re-absorbed every bit of milk the last time? The one who would have been a 2nd freshener has a tiny udder - the one who would have been a 4th has a pretty decent sized one....about the size of the milking girls after they are milked out.

But maybe you got lucky!


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

Three months is a little early to feel much movement from the kids. My big Saanen is due in about six weeks and I'm only just feeling slight little "elbow pokes" from hers.  And she's huge!

As for bagging up - my Saanen yearling is due in two - two and a half weeks. I went away for four days in mid-May. She had a tiny little pouch when I left, and when I got back, she had a perfect little udder developed! :dance: It's getting bigger too, and looking very nice. 

It all depends on the doe. Kind of like adolescent girls.  Some develop more and sooner than others.

But from the sounds of things, your doe is pregnant.


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

We have two does with "udders" who did not freshen this year. I'm still new enough not to know why completely, but assume they they just never completely re-absorbed every bit of milk the last time?>>>>

Hmmm...well, this girl is a first freshener. Since she has never kidded should she not have any udder at all? Or can newbies have that pouch, too? 
I don't have any other does to compare them too, dang it! I have two other milkers and a five month old kid.

Now having said all of this....this is the doe who does not have the pregnant looking vulva so I'm still just trying to remain calm. Lilly, the doe that does have the pregnant looking vulva is a tiny, thin thing and has only the tinyest of pooches for an "udder". But she would only be two month along.....Lightning, the one with the bigger pooch cold have been bred the last few days of February. That would make her 3 to 3 1/2 months along. Haven't felt any kids....but she won't let me push on her tummy much. What side is it? Can a doe be pregnant without the pregnant looking vulva this far along?

This is driving me crazy! I'm the type that knows when I am pregnant a week along.....guess it carries over to my goats, too! Yeah, I'm the one who posted all the goatie porn pics of vulvas...........  

So I guess what I want to know is: can a FF have a "udder" pooch? and can a pregnant doe not have a pregnant vulva?

Thanks!

Dee


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## Shazza (Nov 20, 2004)

I cant say any of my does have ever had a pregnant vulva...when comparing to say a cow who's vulva gets quite soft and stretchy. Udder wise I think at about the 6 weeks to go they start to develop an udder....my goatlings still have 3 mths to go so I cant even tell that they are pregnant yet...only for the fact that they havent cycled since the mating.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

I don't spend much time looking at vulvas unless I'm doing A.I., looking for heat signs, or a foot or nose is presenting from it. 

What I recommend is feeling the belly, NOT the side (rumen activity can mimic kids) but underneath, right in front of her udder. Flatten your palms and fingertips and wait for 5 minutes. I can't feel activity until they're at least 3 months along.


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## crazygoatgirl (Dec 6, 2004)

MamaDee said:


> So I guess what I want to know is: can a FF have a "udder" pooch? and can a pregnant doe not have a pregnant vulva?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Dee


The answer is Yep and yep! they are all different just like people...Some women don't get big bellies until they are 5-6 months along and some seem to show when they are 3 months. Same with ugh...udders...  

Some FF will not have the "pregnant vulva until they are 3 weeks out and then it looks like they could deliver a calf!!!  

So I guess you probably feel like this now-------> :frypan:


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

what I was supposed to ask was "can a first freshener have an udder pooch when she's NOT pregnant". Or do does who have never been pregnant all have flat bellies?

Also, I have never seen a foot or head present from a vulva....perhaps that's why I'm spending waaaaaay too much time studying them now.  

And....tonight I put my flat hand on Lightning's belly, in the middle, just above the teats/udder . I swear I felt a "bump"! :hobbyhors Now I've never felt a kid in a goat before but I've been pregnant five times myself........I am hopeful! I felt her half a dozen times and two of those I felt something....not a rumble, but a tiny bump. I hope it's what I think it is!!!

Dee


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## crazygoatgirl (Dec 6, 2004)

Yes a doe that is not pregnant can come into milk. It is hormonal also. If they just have a little pouch it is called precocious. 
Fat bellies...yep...I have a doe right now that is not pregnant and she looks due anyday.
A kid moving feels like a human baby and can look like it too...When my girls are a month from being due I can sit and watch them while they are cudding and see babies jumping around....they can get pretty wild moving...I can usually start feeling them with a flat hand at 3mo bred. At that point it is like a person that is about 4 months prego...ummm....flutters is the best word I can think of!


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