# Thanks, Idaho



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

This shouldn’t be happening.


‘Their Crisis’ Is ‘Our Problem’: Washington Grapples With Idaho Covid Cases









Idaho’s COVID crisis becomes Washington hospitals’ problem


"Their crisis is becoming our problem,” Washington Gov. Jay Inslee said last week, decrying the lack of a mask mandate in Idaho, where COVID cases are soaring to the point that hospitals must outsource patients — often to Washington state.




www.seattletimes.com


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Lisa in WA said:


> This shouldn’t be happening.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jeesh! How disappointing.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

fireweed farm said:


> Jeesh! How disappointing.


infuriating.
Disgusting.
Why should we have cancer patients living with operable tumors endangering their lives with canceled surgeries when these people from another state could have been vaccinated, worn masks, etc. 
Let them own their choices.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Inslee is always complaining about other people but he himself is worthless as governor. Maybe he should screen those cancer patients to see if they ever smoked, ate garbage food, were fat, or did other things to endanger their health before deciding if they deserved treatment. But he represents the kind of government some people want until it affects them personally. He is lying. There are not enough CIVID patients in their hospitals to prevent other surgeries. We see this all over the country where the COVID wing gets about full but the the rest of the hospital is nearly deserted. BTW, COVID cases in Idaho are dropping so he won't have to put up with it in a couple weeks.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The Washington Department of Health says health care workers are trying their best to face the challenges of the pandemic but it is hard with the lack of staff and resources.

Right now, the Kittitas Valley Healthcare Hospital in Ellensburg says the hospital is full, not because of lack of beds but because of shortage in staff

"Our hospital is full and full is defined by staffing and I think that's true with our list of pain point and I think that's true of whether you are a critical access hospital or a major system. *This is not a crisis of stuff or beds, its a crisis of staffing."* Julie Petersen, Chief Executive Officer at Kittitas Valley Healthcare.



https://www.nbcrightnow.com/news/hospitals-are-overwhelmed-with-lack-of-staff-and-high-covid-patients/article_4f3d1516-1103-11ec-8983-4b4034009c4d.html


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

According to the event description on the group's website, workers came to Olympia to say they would not be complying with the mandate.

"If the Governor refuses to rescind his mandate, it will mean that multiple areas of the state will be severely reduced or shut down completely," the event description read. "From prisons, to hospitals, to First Responders of all types, from firefighters, to police, to EMS personnel, to ferry workers, to teachers, coaches, and school volunteers, bus drivers, sanitation workers, and so on — the Governor is unnecessarily threatening the genuine safety and well-being of the citizens of Washington if he forces his mandate to stand."









As COVID-19 Vaccine Mandate Deadline Draws Near, Unions Hurry to Reach Bargaining Deals


OLYMPIA — The deadline for many Washington employees to get a COVID-19 vaccine or face job termination is growing near, and so is the fight over how it will happen. Unions for affected …



www.chronline.com


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

cannonfoddertfc said:


> First of all, this is propaganda horsecrap straight from the seattletimes rag, Sacred Heart is nowhere near capacity.
> And the real reason Idaho patients come to Spokane is because there is no major hospital in northern Idaho, once again, the propaganda machine in full swing.
> The scary numbers are whatever they decide to make them so that they can further their draconian mandates.
> king inslee and his sycophants can just stay the hell over on that side of the Cascades and leave us alone.


Same here in this part of Illinois. No large hospitals nearby but most people go 10 miles to Indiana where there is one. They took what few COVID patients we had and never complained a bit but Indiana has a sensible governor and rational people.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

cannonfoddertfc said:


> First of all, this is propaganda horsecrap straight from the seattletimes rag, Sacred Heart is nowhere near capacity.
> And the real reason Idaho patients come to Spokane is because there is no major hospital in northern Idaho, once again, the propaganda machine in full swing.
> The scary numbers are whatever they decide to make them so that they can further their draconian mandates.
> king inslee and his sycophants can just stay the hell over on that side of the Cascades and leave us alone.


yeah, it is.
I know ER doctors and nurses, pulmonologist, plastic surgeons, internists, pediatricians etc. they allsay the same thing. And are working like dogs.
Its in the local papers and stations as well.


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## cannonfoddertfc (Dec 20, 2020)

HDRider said:


> The Washington Department of Health says health care workers are trying their best to face the challenges of the pandemic but it is hard with the lack of staff and resources.
> 
> Right now, the Kittitas Valley Healthcare Hospital in Ellensburg says the hospital is full, not because of lack of beds but because of shortage in staff
> 
> ...


Some perspective on this:
The ENTIRE county of Kittitas (which includes the town of Ellensburg) only has a population of 47,935 people. There are more cows in Kittitas county than people.
Yet the six of the eight largest hospitals in WA state are on the I-5 corridor (everett/seattle/tacoma/olympia and nearly 4 million people) so why didn't the news people select one of those as a reference... probably because its not a sensationalist.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

cannonfoddertfc said:


> Some perspective on this:
> The ENTIRE county of Kittitas (which includes the town of Ellensburg) only has a population of 47,935 people. There are more cows in Kittitas county than people.
> Yet the six of the eight largest hospitals in WA state are on the I-5 corridor (everett/seattle/tacoma/olympia and nearly 4 million people) so why didn't the news people select one of those as a reference... probably because its not a sensationalist.


Because they don’t have Idahoans comimg into their hospital?
Where do you live?


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Lisa in WA said:


> infuriating.
> Disgusting.
> Why should we have cancer patients living with operable tumors endangering their lives with canceled surgeries when these people from another state could have been vaccinated, worn masks, etc.
> Let them own their choices.


problem here if someone knows you are going to get the shot they make fun of you . people that do get the shot go in the health department when no one is looking. It is 80% Republican here. 29% of the people have had the shots in this county. Big outbreak here now. With the big outbreak here now a few more people are going to get the shot.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

101pigs said:


> problem here if someone knows you are going to get the shot they make fun of you . people that do get the shot go in the health department when no one is looking. It is 80% Republican here. 29% of the people have had the shots in this county. Big outbreak here now. With the big outbreak here now a few more people are going to get the shot.


Waiting for the morons here to start screeching that what you’re saying isn’t true.


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## cannonfoddertfc (Dec 20, 2020)

Lisa in WA said:


> Waiting for the morons here to start screeching that what you’re saying isn’t true.


You accuse members of being morons for not taking the word of a random internet stranger with an alleged boots on the ground report but yet you challenged my report from Spokane... That is the definition of hypocrisy. Just because it does not fit the approved narrative does not make it any less accurate.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

cannonfoddertfc said:


> You accuse members of being morons for not taking the word of a random internet stranger with an alleged boots on the ground report but yet you challenged my report from Spokane... That is the definition of hypocrisy. Just because it does not fit the approved narrative does not make it any less accurate.


I live in Spokane, right on the South Hill which is how I know so many doctors and nurses Here. 5 minutes from Sacred Heart. 6 from Deaconess. Boots on the ground if you will.
live also been on the forum for 17 tears and I think most here (while they might not agree with me on mnay things) know that I am honest and consistent.
I also have a home on Lake Coeur D’Alene so have a unique perspective to see whats happening in both places.
where is it that you live?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

This OP made me think of what my Mother told me a couple of weeks ago. Had a bit of an outbreak of covid there. A family here had their Father come to visit from Washington state, they all went to church that Sunday. Father fully vaccinated got very sick that night, at the hospital he popped positive for covid. Within a few days the whole fully vaccinated family was sick, plus the preacher, his wife and several of the congregation, all fully vaccinated. Preacher's wife is still in the hospital and yeah she was fully vaccinated. Since this is a church with lots of older people masks and social distancing is done.


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## cannonfoddertfc (Dec 20, 2020)

Lisa in WA said:


> I live in Spokane, which is how I know so many doctors and nurses Here. Boots on the ground if you will.
> live also been on the forum for 17 tears and I think most here (while they might not agree with me on mnay things) know that I am honest and consistent.


I have read your posts for about a year now, I would agree that you speak what you believe to be true and usually I see a middle ground. Unfortunately this is not one of those times, I suppose agreeing to disagree is out of the question at this point?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

cannonfoddertfc said:


> I have read your posts for years, I would agree that you speak what you believe to be true and usually I see a middle ground. Unfortunately this is not one of those times, I suppose agreeing to disagree is out of the question at this point?


Where is it that you live?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

@cannonfoddertfc 
And anyone should listen to you, why?
Oh right, to confirm their bias.
You can’t even say where you live.
And you changed your post from “for years” to “a year”. (See where I quoted him two posts above)
sounds like someone is a sock puppet.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

no really said:


> This OP made me think of what my Mother told me a couple of weeks ago. Had a bit of an outbreak of covid there. A family here had their Father come to visit from Washington state, they all went to church that Sunday. Father fully vaccinated got very sick that night, at the hospital he popped positive for covid. Within a few days the whole fully vaccinated family was sick, plus the preacher, his wife and several of the congregation, all fully vaccinated. Preacher's wife is still in the hospital and yeah she was fully vaccinated. Since this is a church with lots of older people masks and social distancing is done.


I don’t believe I ever said that no one in WA is sick. We have dumbasses here too. Just not as many as Idaho does.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> I don’t believe I ever said that no one in WA is sick. We have dumbasses here too. Just not as many as Idaho does.


Not gonna call anybody a dumbass for not getting vaxxed or getting vaxxed. Everybody is going to get covid unless you live on a desert island alone. And some vaxxed are going to end up in the hospital, some not vaxxed will sail through the infection with no problems. At this point it's a total crap shoot.


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## cannonfoddertfc (Dec 20, 2020)

Lisa in WA said:


> I live in Spokane, right on the South Hill which is how I know so many doctors and nurses Here. 5 minutes from Sacred Heart. 6 from Deaconess. Boots on the ground if you will.
> live also been on the forum for 17 tears and I think most here (while they might not agree with me on mnay things) know that I am honest and consistent.
> I also have a home on Lake Coeur D’Alene so have a unique perspective to see whats happening in both places.
> where is it that you live?


Thank you for clarifying your post, it explains quite a bit more.

ETA:
LOL sockpuppet .... thats amusing. There are folks here that know who I am and sockpuppet isnt on the list. 
As for the edit, I forgot which forum I was on (same xenforo look) so dont get too excited. 
And as for where I live.. its a nice little place up on Notellum Creek. Come on over for a cup of coffee sometime.

Have a nice day.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

no really said:


> Not gonna call anybody a dumbass for not getting vaxxed or getting vaxxed. Everybody is going to get covid unless you live on a desert island alone. And some vaxxed are going to end up in the hospital, some not vaxxed will sail through the infection with no problems. At this point it's a total crap shoot.


I’m calling them dumbasses because they seek medical care that they deliberately mocked and denigrated. If they don’t want to do what medical experts ask, stay home and deal with your illness with yourself and your ivermectin. Why should others suffer because of their choices?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> I’m calling them dumbasses because they seek medical care that they deliberately mocked and denigrated. If they don’t want to do what medical experts ask, stay home and deal with your illness with yourself and your ivermectin. Why should others suffer because of their choices?


Wow, I don't know what everyone thinks or says, so I have a problem telling them to just go die somewhere out of sight.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

no really said:


> Wow, I don't know what everyone thinks or says, so I have a problem telling them to just go die somewhere out of sight.


Like the people who die because the hospital are having to cancel cancer surgeries or the ERs are turning away people with heart attacks and strokes?
because people who think they know better than the actual medical experts chose not to be vaccinated and are now taking up the beds that should be used for accident victims, etc? 
Free choice comes with taking responsibility for the consequences.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

People want to blame the bad cold going around, but our health care systems have been dying the death by a thousand cuts for quite some time now. A lot of people put off procedures for like a year because of the bad cold. Those people are in there too. Now hospitals are forcing staff to get vaccinated, for a cold that they should have antibodies for. I guess the employees not willing to get the jab are not good for interviews when you want to make sensational news stories.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)




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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> Like the people who die because the hospital are having to cancel cancer surgeries or the ERs are turning away people with heart attacks and strokes?
> because people who think they know better than the actual medical experts chose not to be vaccinated and are now taking up the beds that should be used for accident victims, etc?
> Free choice comes with taking responsibility for the consequences.


Hospitals are the ones making that choice by not fully staffing.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

no really said:


> Hospitals are the ones making that choice by not fully staffing.


Why should they staff people who don’t follow science and medical procedure? People who have a higher risk of infecting patients.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> Hospitals are the ones making that choice by not fully staffing.


Hospitals are having staffing problems here because of staff out with covid.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Maybe what they should do, is open up clinics staffed by those who refuse to be vaccinated and they can treat those who chose not to be vaccinated.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> I don’t believe I ever said that no one in WA is sick. We have dumbasses here too. Just not as many as Idaho does.


You did read I said the guy from Washington was fully vaxxed, masked and social distancing, as were the others that tested positive. The guy was not a dumbass he was following the rules.


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## cannonfoddertfc (Dec 20, 2020)

no really said:


> You did read I said the guy from Washington was fully vaxxed, masked and social distancing, as were the others that tested positive. The guy was not a dumbass he was following the rules.


An inconvenient truth has no place in this fear mongering story.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> Not gonna call anybody a dumbass for not getting vaxxed or getting vaxxed. Everybody is going to get covid unless you live on a desert island alone. And some vaxxed are going to end up in the hospital, some not vaxxed will sail through the infection with no problems. At this point it's a total crap shoot.


The stats though do show that the vaccinated are far less likely to require hospitalization( Less than 2 percent of vaccinated). That means they are not using up the precious staffing resources in the hospitals.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

no really said:


> You did read I said the guy from Washington was fully vaxxed, masked and social distancing, as were the others that tested positive. The guy was not a dumbass he was following the rules.


Okay. So we know that vaccinated people can get breakthrough illness. if you’re trying to say that the vaccine is worthless, than the science doesn’t agree with you.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

cannonfoddertfc said:


> An inconvenient truth has no place in this fear mongering story.


It’s hard when you can’t be taken seriously because you’re afraid of being outed as a sock puppet.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

They don't build hospitals according to state lines. They build hospitals based upon population density. The state of New Mexico only has one level one trauma center for the entire state. So many patients are taken to Phoenix. It isn't based on who did or did not do this or that. It is based upon population density. Washington State has a higher population density than Idaho, so they have more hospitals. The media never bothers to mention this, because it wouldn't fit their agenda. Those hospitals in Washington are making money hand over fist, and will continue to do so as long as this panic lasts.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> Okay. So we know that vaccinated people can get breakthrough illness. if you’re trying to say that the vaccine is worthless, than the science doesn’t agree with you.


Geez, what I'm saying is the vaccination is not fool proof, even the science says that. Problem is there hasn't been enough time to tell how effective it is. Most people I know are vaxxed including me. When a person sees an enemy because they aren't doing and seeing he same as them there is a problem. This should not be a war, hell the rate of death from covid isn't even 2%.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> They don't build hospitals according to state lines. They build hospitals based upon population density. The state of New Mexico only has one level one trauma center for the entire state. So many patients are taken to Phoenix. It isn't based on who did or did not do this or that. It is based upon population density. Washington State has a higher population density than Idaho, so they have more hospitals. The media never bothers to mention this, because it wouldn't fit their agenda. Those hospitals in Washington are making money hand over fist, and will continue to do so as long as this panic lasts.


It appears that @Lisa in WA does not want to share her hospitals


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> Geez, what I'm saying is the vaccination is not fool proof, even the science says that. Problem is there hasn't been enough time to tell how effective it is. Most people I know are vaxxed including me. When a person sees an enemy because they aren't doing and seeing he same as them there is a problem. This should not be a war, hell the rate of death from covid isn't even 2%.


The hospitalizations from those that won't get vaccinated are causing people with other illnesses from getting into hospitals for treatment.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> It appears that @Lisa in WA does not want to share her hospitals


If that’s what you got from what I said, then go with it.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> They don't build hospitals according to state lines. They build hospitals based upon population density. The state of New Mexico only has one level one trauma center for the entire state. So many patients are taken to Phoenix. It isn't based on who did or did not do this or that. It is based upon population density. Washington State has a higher population density than Idaho, so they have more hospitals. The media never bothers to mention this, because it wouldn't fit their agenda. Those hospitals in Washington are making money hand over fist, and will continue to do so as long as this panic lasts.


Then the masking and vax mandates should cover the population density assigned to a particular hospital and not state lines. Coeur D‘Alene has its own very fine hospital that normally has no problem accompanying the northern Idaho population density. Which is much denser than most people not from here would guess. What it can’t handle is the anti vax and anti mask stupidity.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

painterswife said:


> The hospitalizations from those that won't get vaccinated are causing people with other illnesses from getting into hospitals for treatment.


Because those hospitals were ordered by the government to shut down, and turn away anyone who didn't have Covid. Creating a backlog of patients, waiting for many different kinds of treatments.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Because those hospitals were ordered by the government to shut down, and turn away anyone who didn't have Covid. Creating a backlog of patients, waiting for many different kinds of treatments.


Which government ordered the hospitals to shut down? They didn’t here in Spokane. 
The hospitals themselves have had to “pause” surgeries.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

President Joe Biden’s sweeping federal employee vaccine mandate announced this week does not apply to members of Congress, employees who work for Congress or the federal court system, White House press secretary Jen Psaki confirmed on Thursday.

Through an Executive Order issued by Biden, all federal workers — including the White House, all federal agencies and all members of the armed services — must take the COVID-19 vaccine with no testing option to opt out. However, the new rule does not apply to members of Congress, congressional employees or employees within the federal court system.









Members of Congress, staff exempt from Biden COVID-19 vaccine mandate


President Joe Biden’s sweeping federal employee vaccine mandate announced this week does not apply to members of Congress, employees who work for Congress




americanmilitarynews.com


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Because those hospitals were ordered by the government to shut down, and turn away anyone who didn't have Covid. Creating a backlog of patients, waiting for many different kinds of treatments.


While I don't believe hospitals were shut down by the government let's agree that there were backlogs. Those backlogs are from a year ago. They are not current. Nice try at propaganda though.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> Then the masking and vax mandates should cover the population density assigned to a particular hospital and not state lines. Coeur D‘Alene has its own very fine hospital that normally has no problem accompanying the northern Idaho population density. Which is much denser than most people not from here would guess. What it can’t handle is the anti vax and anti mask stupidity.


A pandemic isn't factored into a normal population density when deciding to build a hospital. Hospitals are a business like any other, they are built according to how much business they can expect from a given population, under normal conditions. If Idaho's population justified the business plan for more hospitals, there would be more hospitals.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> A pandemic isn't factored into a normal population density when deciding to build a hospital. Hospitals are a business like any other, they are built according to how much business they can expect from a given population, under normal conditions. If Idaho's population justified the business plan for more hospitals, there would be more hospitals.


Those extra hospitalizations can be greatly reduced in this pandemic by people getting vaccinated.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> The hospitalizations from those that won't get vaccinated are causing people with other illnesses from getting into hospitals for treatment.


What about the hospitalizations from those that are vaccinated, their preventing folks with other illnesses from being treated too aren't they?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

How about people just take responsibility for their choices? Get vaccinate. Don’t whine if you grow another head. Don’t get vaccinated, stay home when you get sick.

Are t many here saying that if a woman has sex and gets pregnant she needs to take responsibility for it?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> What about the hospitalizations from those that are vaccinated, their preventing folks with other illnesses from being treated too aren't they?


Breakthrough hospitalizations are less than 2 percent.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> Then the masking and vax mandates should cover the population density assigned to a particular hospital and not state lines. Coeur D‘Alene has its own very fine hospital that normally has no problem accompanying the northern Idaho population density. Which is much denser than most people not from here would guess. What it can’t handle is the anti vax and anti mask stupidity.


What about those that cannot receive the vaccinations because of doctors orders? Some of us exist. Should we be banned from everything too?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

If those that can get vaccinated do, then those that can't will be able to get the treatment they need in the hospitals. This is not about those that can't get vaccinated.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> What about those that cannot receive the vaccinations because of doctors orders? Some of us exist. Should we be banned from everything too?


Nope, definitely not


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Breakthrough hospitalizations are less than 2 percent.


Still happening though right? Some areas have a much higher rate of breakthrough hospitalizations than your post suggests. How about some proof of your statement?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> Why should others suffer because of their choices?


Why should tax payers, and home owners suffer because of the Homeless, who made poor choices? Who should tax payers money be used for Planned Parenthood, because some women make poor choices? Why should the entire country suffer because the Democratic Party made a poor choice, and the most popular president in US history is a babbling idiot?


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> If those that can get vaccinated do, then those that can't will be able to get the treatment they need in the hospitals. This is not about those that can't get vaccinated.


So, i have to wait until everyone else gets vaccinated? How fair is that? I thought universal health care actually meant universal.
I think those that got vaccinated and have breakthrough issues should go to the back of the line since they have already been treated and shouldn't need any further treatment.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Still happening though right? Some areas have a much higher rate of breakthrough hospitalizations than your post suggests. How about some proof of your statement?











See the Data on Breakthrough Covid Hospitalizations and Deaths by State


Coronavirus cases that send vaccinated people to the hospital or cause death have been relatively rare, a New York Times analysis of state data shows.



www.nytimes.com






STATEBREAKTHROUGH HOSPITALIZATIONSAS A PCT. OF ALL COVID HOSPITALIZATIONSBREAKTHROUGH DEATHSAS A PCT. OF ALL COVID DEATHSAlabama770.3%210.4%Alaska172.0%23.3%Arizona3790.5%340.3%Arkansas—4.7%—2.6%California8430.4%880.5%Colorado3121.2%523.1%Delaware220.4%63.5%Georgia850.1%210.2%Idaho370.9%61.3%Illinois5630.6%1512.2%Indiana1850.7%694.8%Kentucky3031.1%522.0%Louisiana1251.0%281.4%Maine270.5%135.6%Massachusetts3291.1%801.9%Michigan5691.1%2233.3%Minnesota3491.6%501.5%Mississippi740.4%190.6%Montana310.8%72.1%Nebraska580.9%131.8%Nevada2350.8%421.8%New Hampshire220.5%102.8%New Jersey1950.3%500.8%New Mexico1552.0%101.9%North Carolina3210.5%610.9%North Dakota581.3%134.4%Ohio2050.2%340.5%Oklahoma1300.4%190.4%Oregon1911.1%312.9%Rhode Island1594.0%111.4%South Carolina1621.3%392.6%South Dakota531.4%112.1%Tennessee2180.6%310.5%Texas2910.2%520.4%Utah2304.3%82.0%Vermont150.7%65.5%Virginia1450.3%421.7%Washington2590.8%522.7%Washington, D.C.130.1%41.4%West Virginia——311.3%Wisconsin3131.1%352.7%
Show less


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> So, i have to wait until everyone else gets vaccinated? How fair is that? I thought universal health care actually meant universal.
> I think those that got vaccinated and have breakthrough issues should go to the back of the line since they have already been treated and shouldn't need any further treatment.


What?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Why should tax payers, and home owners suffer because of the Homeless, who made poor choices? Who should tax payers money be used for Planned Parenthood, because some women make poor choices? Why should the entire country suffer because the Democratic Party made a poor choice, and the most popular president in US history is a babbling idiot?


If you’re familiar with my posts you’d know that I agree with most of what you said other than the trump part.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> See the Data on Breakthrough Covid Hospitalizations and Deaths by State
> 
> 
> Coronavirus cases that send vaccinated people to the hospital or cause death have been relatively rare, a New York Times analysis of state data shows.
> ...


Some states are higher, some are lower. Still high enough to be worried about. Also, the NYT isn't a place that is trusted as they lie constantly. I was hoping you would post from an unbiased source like the JAM or the Lancet or from a university. 2 of my local hospitals are not even keep track of these breakthrough cases as told to me by my friends wife...a contracted ICU nurse. Ill take her word before i take yours. There's a reason TPTB don't want the true numbers to be publicized.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> What?


Read. it. slowly...it's pretty clear.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Some states are higher, some are lower. Still high enough to be worried about. Also, the NYT isn't a place that is trusted as they lie constantly. I was hoping you would post from an unbiased source like the JAM or the Lancet or from a university. 2 of my local hospitals are not even keep track of these breakthrough cases as told to me by my friends wife...a contracted ICU nurse. Ill take her word before i take yours. There's a reason TPTB don't want the true numbers to be publicized.


I posted a good source. Why don't you post something that proves my post wrong? Can you? I estimated the 2 percent by looking at the charts though they say 3 percent in the article. Still shows that breakthrough hospitalizations are minuscule compared to unvaccinated hospitalizations.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Read. it. slowly...it's pretty clear.


It is clearly not logical. I never said anyone should wait or go to the back of the line, vaccinated or unvaccinated. You went there all on your own.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Those extra hospitalizations can be greatly reduced in this pandemic by people getting vaccinated.


Simple, in a free country you can't force people to participate in a vaccine test. No matter what the current experts say. No matter how much you may believe in the vaccine, you have no right to tell other people what they should or should not believe. I know it is difficult for a Hive Minded individual to believe but the world does not revolve around your opinion.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Simple, in a free country you can't force people to participate in a vaccine test. No matter what the current experts say. No matter how much you may believe in the vaccine, you have no right to tell other people what they should or should not believe. I know it is difficult for a Hive Minded individual to believe but the world does not revolve around your opinion.


I have a right to an opinion. I have not forced anyone to get vaccinated. 

The courts of this free country have upheld vaccination mandates but I sure wish that people would understand that I did not make those rulings or make any laws about vaccines. I do have an opinion on them that is correct. You seem to have one as well.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Simple, in a free country you can't force people to participate in a vaccine test. No matter what the current experts say. No matter how much you may believe in the vaccine, you have no right to tell other people what they should or should not believe. I know it is difficult for a Hive Minded individual to believe but the world does not revolve around your opinion.


Now use your argument on women’s right to choose.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> If you’re familiar with my posts you’d know that I agree with most of what you said other than the trump part.


I am not here to court your agreement. And it doesn't matter what you agree with most of the time. If you think I am wrong then say so, and when you are wrong I will point it out to you.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

painterswife said:


> I posted a good source. Why don't you post something that proves my post wrong? Can you? I estimated the 2 percent by looking at the charts though they say 3 percent in the article. Still shows that breakthrough hospitalizations are minuscule compared to unvaccinated hospitalizations.


I looked at that a few days ago. Those percents are based on "AS A PCT. OF ALL COVID HOSPITALIZATIONS". The same applies to deaths. 

It appears that ALL goes back to the first hospitalazion and death. That would skew the numbers.

In addition, I doubt all breakthrough cases/deaths are reported.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> I am not here to court your agreement. And it doesn't matter what you agree with most of the time. If you think I am wrong then say so, and when you are wrong I will point it out to you.


I was showing a consistency in my thoughts.
I do think you’re wrong and I think your argument is inconsistent.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

po boy said:


> I looked at that a few days ago. Those percents are based on "AS A PCT. OF ALL COVID HOSPITALIZATIONS". The same applies to deaths.
> 
> It appears that ALL goes back to the first hospitalazion and death. That would skew the numbers.
> 
> In addition, I doubt all breakthrough cases/deaths are reported.


No, It is from Jan 1 of this year I believe.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

i wonder how many arguing here are vaccinated.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> Now use your argument on women’s right to choose.


If a woman chooses, or even if the majority of women choose to have an abortion, it doesn't justify killing babies. And no government should make it legal to kill babies, just because it is a popular choice. No more than they should require that people be vaccinated, even if the majority of people choose to do so. You can't justify something just because "everybody is doing it".


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> If a woman chooses, or even if the majority of women choose to have an abortion, it doesn't justify killing babies. And no government should make it legal to kill babies, just because it is a popular choice. No more than they should require that people be vaccinated, even if the majority of people choose to do so. You can't justify something just because "everybody is doing it".


Why should people who aren’t vaccinated be allowed to kill others because of their refusal to follow medical advice?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> i wonder how many arguing here are vaccinated.


What does that have to do with the argument about choice. I have not been vaccinated, but even if I had, I would still insist that it is a choice.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> What does that have to do with the argument about choice. I have not been vaccinated, but even if I had, I would still insist that it is a choice.


I didn’t say it did. Just wondered.
I haven’t had an abortion either but I still insist it’s an individual choice.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> It is clearly not logical. I never said anyone should wait or go to the back of the line, vaccinated or unvaccinated. You went there all on your own.


I did. If you think that those who are not vaccinated need to wait to see a doctor, so should those who have been vaccinated and made poor choices that caused them to become infected. Simple.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> Why should people who aren’t vaccinated be allowed to kill others because of their refusal to follow medical advice?


Nobody is being allowed to kill anyone. The vaccine does not guaranteed that you won't become infected, or that you can't infect others. It may lessen the effects of an infection, but even that is an opinion. My opinion no matter how strongly held, does not negate your right to have a differing opinion. My choices no matter what they are, do not prevent you from making different choices. If you have a very strong opinion, and I have a very strong opinion, doesn't make either of us right. It does allow us to choose, what we do and how we act. 

Because of my wife's medical practice, I happen to know a lot of doctors and nurse practitioners. Some of them are in favor of the vaccine, and some are not. Who I choose to believe is my choice. Who you choose to believe is your choice. Neither one of us is killing anyone. We are all taking our chances, based on our choices.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Nobody is being allowed to kill anyone. The vaccine does not guaranteed that you won't become infected, or that you can't infect others. It may lessen the effects of an infection, but even that is an opinion. My opinion no matter how strongly held, does not negate your right to have a differing opinion. My choices no matter what they are, do not prevent you from making different choices. If you have a very strong opinion, and I have a very strong opinion, doesn't make either of us right. It does allow us to choose, what we do and how we act.
> 
> Because of my wife's medical practice, I happen to know a lot of doctors and nurse practitioners. Some of them are in favor of the vaccine, and some are not. Who I choose to believe is my choice. Who you choose to believe is your choice. Neither one of us is killing anyone. We are all taking our chances, based on our choices.


But you are in favor of taking the abortion choice away. 
im not in favor of taking away a choice. I’m just saying that those who make their choices live with the consequences.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> I didn’t say it did. Just wondered.
> I haven’t had an abortion either but I still insist it’s an individual choice.


I have never murdered anyone, but I have talked to murders who insist that they were justified. I have arrested thieves and drug smugglers who insisted that they did it to feed their families. Should I have let them go because they thought they had a good excuse?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> I have never murdered anyone, but I have talked to murders who insist that they were justified. I have arrested thieves and drug smugglers who insisted that they did it to feed their families. Should I have let them go because they thought they had a good excuse?


For self defense…yes.
None of us are obligated to sacrifice our body for another.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> But you are in favor of taking the abortion choice away.


No, I am not in favor of killing babies. Why not choose to not make a baby in the first place, don't women or men for that matter not have the ability to make that choice? I made that choice for years, even when my partner would have been willing to have a baby. Trying to correct a mistake after the fact, is choosing to cover up bad choices. And then calling it your choice.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> I did. If you think that those who are not vaccinated need to wait to see a doctor, so should those who have been vaccinated and made poor choices that caused them to become infected. Simple.


I never said anything about anyone waiting.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> No, I am not in favor of killing babies. Why not choose to not make a baby in the first place, don't women or men for that matter not have the ability to make that choice? I made that choice for years, even when my partner would have been willing to have a baby. Trying to correct a mistake after the fact, is choosing to cover up bad choices. And then calling it your choice.


That’s what I would choose. For myself. Not others. 
What if the woman didn’t choose? She was raped, or her birth control failed?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> For self defense…yes.
> None of us are obligated to sacrifice our body for another.


I never said anything about self defense, murder is not self defense. And none of us are entitled to sacrifice another for our convenience. If you don't want to harvest, then don't plant a garden.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> I never said anything about self defense, murder is not self defense. And none of us are entitled to sacrifice another for our convenience. If you don't want to harvest, then don't plant a garden.


Are you calling rape victims willing participant?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> I’m calling them dumbasses because they seek medical care that they deliberately mocked and denigrated. If they don’t want to do what medical experts ask, stay home and deal with your illness with yourself and your ivermectin. Why should others suffer because of their choices?


I understand being upset but it isn't really an all or nothing thing. I was late vaccinating but it's certainly not because I relied on ivermectin or mocked our medical professionals. I wanted some information as to how the vaccine would react since I'd already had the virus and actually still recieve no answer so I'm guessing the answer to my question is, 'one may feel like crap off and on for a month or so and experience the occasional hot flash.' 

I do share your concerns about surgeries being cancelled or delayed because we're seeing the same thing here but I've encountered very few hardcore anti vaxxers but what I have encountered is working poor who struggle to access vaccination centers hours of operation, some, like myself, looking for answers to specific questions, the odd person who felt they were remote enough that they wouldn't be affected and a few other real life scenarios.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> That’s what I would choose. For myself. Not others.
> What if the woman didn’t choose? She was raped, or her birth control failed?


I have always believed that abortion should be allowed for rape, incest, or for the health of the mother. If the woman used birth control, and we all know that birth control sometime fails to preform as expected, she paid her dollar and she took her chances. That was her choice. I don't wanna, does not justify killing a baby for your convenience.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wr said:


> I understand being upset but it isn't really an all or nothing thing. I was late vaccinating but it's certainly not because I relied on ivermectin or mocked our medical professionals. I wanted some information as to how the vaccine would react since I'd already had the virus and actually still recieve no answer so I'm guessing the answer to my question is, 'one may feel like crap off and on for a month or so and experience the occasional hot flash.'
> 
> I do share your concerns about surgeries being cancelled or delayed because we're seeing the same thing here but I've encountered very few hardcore anti vaxxers but what I have encountered is working poor who struggle to access vaccination centers hours of operation, some, like myself, looking for answers to specific questions, the odd person who felt they were remote enough that they wouldn't be affected and a few other real life scenarios.


Idaho is a bit different. It’s the least vaccinated state in the country.
These are very hardcore people.
People are being harassed for wearing masks, and advocating vaccines.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> Are you calling rape victims willing participant?


No.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Lisa in WA said:


> infuriating.
> Disgusting.
> Why should we have cancer patients living with operable tumors endangering their lives with canceled surgeries when these people from another state could have been vaccinated, worn masks, etc.
> Let them own their choices.


Doctors all over are making apointment months away. Had vain apt set up now moved to Feb. Dil has a bad rash from her second shot cant get in ill end Dec.
Her father had knee replacement that got canceled.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> Idaho is a bit different. It’s the least vaccinated state in the country.
> These are very hardcore people.
> People are being harassed for wearing masks, and advocating vaccines.


I'm still pretty firmly pro choice but I don't believe anyone should be bullied or harrassed in any way. 

I feel that without being allowed to make a decision freely, we're going to cause the undecided to dig in and the anti vaxxers will become more militant and I don't feel we're through with this for a while yet. 

I'm not overly confident in the fabric masks but I do feel they make people a bit more aware of the circumstances and people respect social distancing better and they seem to remember handwashing or sanitizing better, which helps. 

I'm probably as grumpy as you are right now because I lost a good friend this weekend. Not because she wasn't vaccinated but because our local ER assumed that vaccinated meant she would only have a mild case and she was likely overstating her symptoms so she was sent home 3 times and by the time she was sent by ambulance to Calgary, it was far too late to do anything for her.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

muleskinner2 said:


> I have always believed that abortion should be allowed for rape, incest, or for the health of the mother. If the woman used birth control, and we all know that birth control sometime fails to preform as expected, she paid her dollar and she took her chances. That was her choice. I don't wanna, does not justify killing a baby for your convenience.


So you are pro abortion? 
Only if...
I don't understand that logic in the big picture.
Choice for some but not all women is what I think that sounds like.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> If that’s what you got from what I said, then go with it.


You were pretty clear

People that think different than you are idiots and dumbasses


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> How about people just take responsibility for their choices? Get vaccinate. Don’t whine if you grow another head. Don’t get vaccinated, stay home when you get sick.
> 
> Are t many here saying that if a woman has sex and gets pregnant she needs to take responsibility for it?


You know as well as I that is apples and oranges


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> i wonder how many arguing here are vaccinated.


The argument is not whether I am or not. The argument is the freedom to choose to vaccinate. Too much muddy water has passed under the bridge for people to trust the government. Too many lies, too little trust.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Are you calling rape victims willing participant?


Are you going to go rabid school teacher on us?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Idaho only has about a 44% vaccination rate but I would like to see the percentage of their hospitalizations that are vaccinated. This chart from Scotland shows their COVID death percentage is very close to their vaccinated percentage. I've also seen reports that say those dying from COVID are crashing much faster than the unvaccinated but have seen no stats on that.

covid-vaccine-death-cahart.jpg (731×471) (citizenfreepress.com)


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Lisa in WA said:


> Waiting for the morons here to start screeching that what you’re saying isn’t true.


Don't know if what he said is true or not, but, I fail to see why it would matter? I haven't worried if someone made fun of me since I got out of middle school.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

poppy said:


> Idaho only has about a 44% vaccination rate but I would like to see the percentage of their hospitalizations that are vaccinated. This chart from Scotland shows their COVID death percentage is very close to their vaccinated percentage. I've also seen reports that say those dying from COVID are crashing much faster than the unvaccinated but have seen no stats on that.
> 
> covid-vaccine-death-cahart.jpg (731×471) (citizenfreepress.com)


I posted the chart earlier. Idaho has 37 breakthrough hospitalizations.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Lisa in WA said:


> i wonder how many arguing here are vaccinated.


I am. When governments start forcing it, it makes me wish I wasn't .


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

doozie said:


> So you are pro abortion?
> Only if...
> I don't understand that logic in the big picture.
> Choice for some but not all women is what I think that sounds like.


All murders are a homicide, but not all homicides are murder. It is my opinion that abortion should be allowed in case of rape, incest, and the woman's health. It should not be allowed just because the woman decides after the fact that she doesn't want to take responsibility after voluntary sex. 

I am pro death penalty, just not for an unborn baby.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

muleskinner2 said:


> All murders are a homicide, but not all homicides are murder. It is my opinion that abortion should be allowed in case of rape, incest, and the woman's health. It should not be allowed just because the woman decides after the fact that she doesn't want to take responsibility after voluntary sex.
> 
> I am pro death penalty, just not for an unborn baby.


So abort the ones that were a product of something you deem makes them what exactly?
That is the logic I don't understand.
And, that makes you pro abortion, but only if... It really makes no sense.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

doozie said:


> So abort the ones that were a product of something you deem makes them what exactly


My opinion isn't based on what I deem them to be. It is based on if the woman had a choice, or if it is dangerous to her health. It would allow for an exception, and therefor be a justified medical procedure. It would still kill a baby, but we don't live in a perfect world.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Mandatory depo-provera shots for all unwed females.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

@wr, you have my sympathy on the loss of your friend.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

barnbilder said:


> Mandatory depo-provera shots for all unwed females.


Even the ones who want to have babies and are capable of supporting those babies without the father's assistance?

Some married females should have those depo-provera shots. Not all women who get abortions are unmarried.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

Lisa in WA said:


> Let them own their choices.


Isn't it the goal of the government to take those choices away...who would you blame in that scenario ?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

101pigs said:


> problem here if someone knows you are going to get the shot they make fun of you . people that do get the shot go in the health department when no one is looking. It is 80% Republican here. 29% of the people have had the shots in this county. Big outbreak here now. With the big outbreak here now a few more people are going to get the shot.


With the big out break and the resulting natural immunity shots are probably not needed in the near feature.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Lisa in WA said:


> Maybe what they should do, is open up clinics staffed by those who refuse to be vaccinated and they can treat those who chose not to be vaccinated.


Good idea. Where at ?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Lisa in WA said:


> Why should people who aren’t vaccinated be allowed to kill others because of their refusal to follow medical advice?


Many in the hospital are there do to their poor choices. Why pick one choice ?


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## Chew (Jan 11, 2020)

That fact that people are still considering these shots a vaccine is very perplexing.

This has been an interesting read.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Chew said:


> That fact that people are still considering these shots a vaccine is very perplexing.
> 
> This has been an interesting read.


It wasn't actually a vaccine until the CDC and Merrian Webster coincidentally decided to redefine the word "vaccine" around the same time.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

I haven't read this thread, BUT-- Somebody running the state of Washington has his pants on fire--https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization Washington has 78% of it's staffed beds in use, only 13% of them are occupied by CoViD pts.

112 posts on this thread, started by a lie.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> Don't know if what he said is true or not, but, I fail to see why it would matter? I haven't worried if someone made fun of me since I got out of middle school.


Oh no.
You just publicly admit that you can be manipulated into not doing something that you want to do because, “you’re not the boss of me!”
Way to act like a toddler.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Lisa in WA said:


> Oh no.
> You just publicly admit that you can be manipulated into not doing something that you want to do because, “you’re not the boss of me!”
> Way to act like a toddler.


What are you talking about?
Oh, I get it now. You took my post directly AFTER this one as a sign that I can be manipulated. For one thing, I didn't "want" to take the shot. I did because I thought and still think that it would lessen my chances of catching COVID. And if an act of civil disobedience is "acting like a toddler There are some very well known activists who got a lot of stuff done by "acting like toddlers."


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> What are you talking about?


You’ve said twice now that you wouldn’t have been vaccinated for Covid if you’d have known that the government would be pushing it.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Lisa in WA said:


> You’ve said twice now that you wouldn’t have been vaccinated for Covid if you’d have known that the government would be pushing it.


No, I wouldn't be vaccinated for COVID if the Government FORCED IT.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

If they had asked, and presented any evidence that it would actually do anything useful for me, I would have considered it. Now that they are demanding, my compliance, there is no chance I will take it.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Farmerga said:


> So, encouraging one to take the vaccine is the same as threatening one to take the vaccine?


Now you are getting with the program. 😉


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

muleskinner2 said:


> If they had asked, and presented any evidence that it would actually do anything useful for me, I would have considered it. Now that they are demanding, my compliance, there is no chance I will take it.


Same here! I agree 100%. Give us all the facts, present all the evidence, study the effects on know recovered covid cases. Don't keep repeating that "it's for the public good" while belittling the genuine concern the hold-outs are expressing.


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