# Ar



## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

Well, after all my questions I got my PSA AR and have only put 20 rounds through It. I think I am just not a tactical military gun guy. I am not overly impressed. Thinking about trading it for a bolt action in 30- 06 or something. I have started enjoying shooting my .17hmr and 22 mag from longer distances and am thinking maybe a 30- 06 of something could be fun. Or should I put a nice scope on the AR and try that? What do you all think? Can the AR be a fun distance gun? Thanks!!


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

In defense of the AR's, they are designed to be a reliable, durable, short barrel, light weight battle rifle, for short to mid range distance. A bolt action 30-06 is a completely different animal.

I own several stock, Colt AR's and have been pretty impressed with how accurate they can be with the factory peep sights. I've got a steel target plate at 250 yards and a buddy and I were hitting it pretty consistently with the AR's. 

I'd leave the scope off of the AR and get a bolt action rifle for long distance work.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

what is it that you don't like ?

I have an AR with a 1x prism site on it , my dad never shot an AR before he tried that for a few rounds wasn't very happy then I handed him an AR with a decent Nikon scope on it and a polished single stage trigger , then he was ringing steel at 100 yards easy enough and liking it and a lot , almost had me ordering parts that day, till he decided for as often as he shot he maybe didn't need to build one but as the prices are dropping he has been thinking about it.

I would put a scope on the AR a decent scope works on any rifle so buy the same 3-9 or whatever you would put on a 30-06 so if you do decide the 223 isn't your thing it will mount to your next rile just fine.

you will see a lot of very expensive AR scope mounts 

it does not have to be an expensive proposition mounting a scope to an AR you need some added hight to get you off the stock when you have a flat top upper but for 12 dollars you can get a riser like this they work just fine , https://www.amazon.com/Zengi-14-slo...606415&sr=8-6&keywords=picatinny+riser+1+inch

and otherwise use the same medium or high rings you might use if you were mounting to a 30-06

weaver style rings I like to use Weaver quad-locks they are 15 dollars a pair and have held everything just fine and fit on a piccatini rail just fine

piccatini rings will not fit on a weaver rail but weaver on a piccatini rail works fine


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

If you like the 22-250, look up the 22 Nosler. I'm thinking that's having your cake and eating it too.


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

Thanks guys. Went ahead this morning and put a cheap 3 x9 on it that I had in cabinet. Already like the look better. Haha. Hoping to shoot it this week sometime.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

223 55gr and 150gr 30-06 are almost identical to 500 yards for trajectory obviously the 223 carries much less energy. but it hits that much less hard on the user end also and costs half or less as much to shoot.

a little magnification goes a long ways in seeing what your shooting at well enough to hit where you want.

I reload 223 for about 23 cents a round , my 30-06 bullets cost me 26-30 cents without the powder or primer and take twice as much powder to reload 
30-06 is running about 50-55 cents a round to reload still better than the dollar or more at the store.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Darren said:


> If you like the 22-250, look up the 22 Nosler. I'm thinking that's having your cake and eating it too.


It's a neat round but hot dang that brass is expensive!!!


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

If you have a 1:7 or 1:8 twist barrel look at Barnes, they have a 80 or 85 grain bullet that is mag friendly and with a fast twist rate it will stabilize quite well and let you get out to the 600 yard range no worries compared to the wind calls using 55 and 62 grain pills.


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

Another thought to add to the mix is that the AR does not begin and end at the .223. Besides just getting a scope for your rifle, there are almost endless possibilities to customize your gun, including changing the caliber. 

You can buy a second upper for your rifle in larger calibers for hunting. You have choices like the 6.5 Grendel, 6.8, 7.62X39, or BIG thumpers like the 450 Bushmaster/ 458SOCOM.

In the opposite direction you can get a rimfire adapter that lets you shoot .22RF through your .223.

But, you're headed in the right direction. Just putting a scope on your rifle will amplify your shooting experience proportionally!


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

Yeah I like the idea of having different chamber options. THANKS.


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## Silvercreek Farmer (Oct 13, 2005)

Do you handload?


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

Not yet..


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## Silvercreek Farmer (Oct 13, 2005)

Just about any AR should be able to reliably hit an 8" plate at 200 yards or even 300 with halfway decent ammo. 

For the cost of 223, I'd have a hard time shooting another AR caliber in any quantity unless handloaded.

Most people I see with 30-06s only shoot 20 rounds or so before they have had enough for a while. My 30-06 target loads are around 1/2 power and are suitable for all day shooting. If I had it to do over, I'd probably get a 308 based on the enormous brass and ammo availability.

As a bolt gun guy, an AR does feel a bit strange to me. I think a lot of it comes from the muzzle blast from such a small caliber due to the shorter barrel and muzzle device. People don't talk about it much but carbine length, flash supressed ARs are loud. I also, perhaps, get some noise from the buffer spring? I'd probably get used to it over time, though, as I've only shot a few friends rifles on occasion. Might be a lot of fun with a supressor especially if they become cheaper/easier to own.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Silvercreek Farmer said:


> Just about any AR should be able to reliably hit an 8" plate at 200 yards or even 300 with halfway decent ammo.
> 
> For the cost of 223, I'd have a hard time shooting another AR caliber in any quantity unless handloaded.
> 
> ...


If you think it's load with a flash hider stand next to someone shooting a brake! That'll wake you up quick fast and in a hurry! Witt matching makes custom clamp on brakes that are actually worth a dang for around 100 bucks and they only need 2 measurements. Check out their website you may like what's there and bring your loads back up.


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## Silvercreek Farmer (Oct 13, 2005)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> If you think it's load with a flash hider stand next to someone shooting a brake! That'll wake you up quick fast and in a hurry! Witt matching makes custom clamp on brakes that are actually worth a dang for around 100 bucks and they only need 2 measurements. Check out their website you may like what's there and bring your loads back up.


No need. It doesn't take much to punch through paper!


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

I wouldn't have a muzzle brake on a rifle. Those things are miserable to be around.
If you need to reduce recoil, shoot a lighter caliber.


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

So I could buy a 300 blackout and change my upper?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Bubbas Boys said:


> So I could buy a 300 blackout and change my upper?


You could, but if you don't hand load, you will probably have trouble finding ammo. 

It would be better (to me at least) to get an upper in 7.62 X 39 which would let you find lots of cheap ammo with more power.

You need to figure out what you want to use a rifle for, and that will help you choose the right cartridge.

If you're just target shooting under 500 yards it makes no sense to go with a larger one.

If you want to hunt larger animals, a bolt action will generally give you better options.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Fishindude said:


> I wouldn't have a muzzle brake on a rifle. Those things are miserable to be around.
> If you need to reduce recoil, shoot a lighter caliber.


I agree I don't run one on anything but it's always an option.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You could, but if you don't hand load, you will probably have trouble finding ammo.
> 
> It would be better (to me at least) to get an upper in 7.62 X 39 which would let you find lots of cheap ammo with more power.
> 
> ...


300 blk is on the shelves pretty much everywhere now. Every academy, cabelas and bass pro have piles of it down here. It's got a higher price tag to it but it's popularity has been driving it down some. Gander mountain sells brass for 65 buck for 250 should you reload. The only issue with 7.62x39 is bullet selection if you reload. Cheap ammo but 300 blk cases last a long time of reloaded properly and not overdone.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Bubbas Boys said:


> Not yet..


I'm not sure if they are still out there but Lee had their anniversary loading set for around 150 I believe. It's a good set to get started on.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

the lee challenger kit would run about 190 plus powder , primer , brass, and bullets to actually be loading 

the lee turret kit would run about 288 plus powder primers brass and bullets to be loading 


either kit will need 

a set of dies 32

if you get the turret I would recommend a second turret 13 and a powder through charging die 13

for either a case mouth expanding die is a good idea 15 

the differnce is the turret has you loading more rounds in the same time and I prefer having the powder drop and the bullet seated and crimped all done to a finished round that way I start with an empty prepped case and have a finished round in a about 15 seconds that way I can alwasy finish that round before leaving the bench for an interruption

yeah I know there shouldn't be interruptions during reloading time , but that makes for scheduling issues in my life . so I choose the turret 

also at a comfortable pace I am loading about 100 rounds every half hour because after 100 it takes a few minutes to refill the primers also every so many rounds the powder should get weighed to make sure your dropping the same weight you decide what your QA should be if varies based on what your willing to pull down should you find a discrepancy and how consistent the powder measure has been , also what type of powder your using , as an example I test at the beginning and end of a 50 round batch , but i haven't had to touch my powder measure since it was setup a few years ago and in 223 the powder comes right up to the neck so I can see if it was off by very much and max load is compressed load so there is low danger in going over.

small charges that could be doubled without spilling out ate where you need to be especially careful

if a max load is near 100% of case fill or you just couldn't stuff an overcharge in the case and get a bullet seated it gives more safety margin.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> 300 blk is on the shelves pretty much everywhere now. Every academy, cabelas and bass pro have piles of it down here. It's got a higher price tag to it but it's popularity has been driving it down some. Gander mountain sells brass for 65 buck for 250 should you reload. *The only issue with 7.62x39 is bullet selection if you reload.* Cheap ammo but 300 blk cases last a long time of reloaded properly and not overdone.


Most barrels are bored to .308 so you use all the same bullets as the 300 BLK.
It's still safe to shoot .311 foreign bullets also.


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

Ok. Thanks


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Most barrels are bored to .308 so you use all the same bullets as the 300 BLK.
> It's still safe to shoot .311 foreign bullets also.


If it's American made sure. The ak is generally reliable due to the "over" clearances if you will much like a glock. When you put the 7.62x39 into the ar platform you typically will have feeding issues due to the case taper therefore making the 300blk more effective and reliable, plus the ease of making the brass from 556 or 223 brass makes it real cheap and extremely available.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/lee-breech-lock-challenger-reloading-press-kit#repChildCatid=3108543
140 plus shipping

Lee's RGB dies are 20 bucks and actually decent. I was skeptical of their quality at first but they measure out with my hornady does, so consider them as well. 

If you load a 223/556 cfe223 is a good powder for it. 

Natchez shooters supply and precision reloading have a great selection and variety for decent prices. I can't remember the name of the company but they sell sample pack of bullets so you see which performs better in your rifle. Sierra will sell factory seconds by the pound and you can usually score pretty good deals, call them direct. Midway will box up spilled boxes and no name bullets pretty cheap as well, making a 223 cheap as heck to shoot.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

300 blackout has gotten a lot more available , Walmart is selling Remingtion 120gr super sonics that are good from a 16 inch barrel , it is Barnes head stamped brass with 120gr open tip flat base hollow points they were printing about an inch and a half inch and 3/4 for me at a hundred yards with a 16 inch barrel AR and 2-7 scope.

for reloading I found cut down 223 cleaned formed and trimmed ready to reload for 100 dollars for 1000 pieces from a guy on another reloading board , but you can convert 223 fairly easily there are inexpensive jigs that fit in the harbor freight mini chop saw it has a little metal blade that has hacksaw like teeth slide a case in chop it off at the shoulder run it through a full length sizing die then trim the only extra step between reloading normal and cut down only varies in that you have to cut them off accurately at the shoulder and the jig and saw makes that simple.

I have been working with Hogdons new powder CFE-BLK designed specifically for 300blk the pressures stay very low compared to many of the other powders so I expect brass life to be quite good.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I think the pacesetter dies are the better deal , but I like the factory crimp die for rifle cartridges seating the bullet without trying to adjust for crimp at the same time then crimping as a second stage is very easy on a turret just one more pull of the handle 

19.99 gets you a full length sizer and a seating die it would be 13 more for a factory crimp so all 3 for 31 is 2 dollars savings 

if you think you might want to neck size with a collect die for loads in bolt action guns it improves brass life and makes for less trim the collet neck size die is 23 by it's self and 14 more in a kit 

I don't use the neck size only die , so I just get the pacesetter die set 

if you just want to neck size you can always back the full length sizer out a turn and just size the neck and not set the shoulder back 

people put down Lee but they seem to make dies that produce very usable ammo with little effort and at a reasonable cost.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

I will have to look for the article again but they did some testing and found that full length is the best way to go for brass life, it shocked the crap out of me. If you measure your chamber and only push the shoulder back a minimum your brass life is extended a ton. Annealing will also help all this. I use to only neck size because I thought it was better for my bolt gun but after reading some more I full length everything and have actually found on my 300rum that my cases do last longer.


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