# Boz Sheperd



## FoxyWench

im trying tp purchase a little homestead on 4 1/2 acres (potential to buy another 3-4 acres on top in a few years) in western TN...

im a long ways off right now but one of the things im planning on adding to my little homestead is LGD's
the area im looking at aparently has bear, wild pig, many coyotes ect...

im hoping to eventually have 2, i think 2 on 4 1/2 acres would be more than enough to cover all fences and dissuede most predators (or people)
but being that part of the property is literally right next to the neighbors house im looking for breeds that arnt known to be unessicarily barky...

ive worked directly with central asians and caucasian orvcharka, and would love one of them as a lgd, they are amazing, but thanks to this forum ive also come across the Boz...
would a Boz and a CAS be a good lgd tag team?! How are the Boz in terms of night time barking?!

also are they generally good with strangers?!
i dont want a "friendly" lgd, but i also dont want one thats going to be charging the fence every time the neighbor mows his lawn ect...
essentially im looking for a ldg breed that has brains enough to know when it needs to act without me being ontop of it 24/7
in otherwords i need a dog who is respectfull of its human handler, but is also smart enough to think for themselves.

would a Boz fit the bill?!

im planning on having the property fully perimeter fenced with feild fence, then the pastures will be cross fenced, planning to have shetland sheep, dairy goats, chickens, rabbits, quail, turkey, ducks, geese, and mabe one day (if i can get the extra land) a couple of norwegian fjord horses. oh and a GOS pig.


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## wolffeathers

How funny. I was just googling the breed trying to get a better feel for it. I think they are beautiful, but it seems all the Boz in the US are still pups(Monster being 10months? Right? MonsterMalak?). 

I was wondering how such a large pup took to staying inside a fence? We had a short struggle with our Komondor/GP, a shock collar and electric fence in some areas fixed it fairly quick, but we are currently only on 6 acres. We want to move to a 40acre+ property and following a pup around with a collar remote is going to be a bit less easy.

By the time I'll be ready to get some of my own, Monster and the others will be mature and I'll be glad to watch their progress.


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## horsepoor21

Yep ,definitely contact Brian (MonsterMalak) and Brenda ( Goatress) . They are very knowledgable about Boz Shepherds . I got my Kangal from Brian and with his help hope to get a Boz soon .

I have always been in love with CAO and CO's . I got my Kangal because I could not find a breeder of Ovcharkas that didn't have a huge contract telling me what I could and couldn't do with my own dog . And I didn't know what a Boz was at the time . LOL 

Kind of off topic ,but I have a Norwegian Fjord ! I had two but sold the gelding . AWESOME horses ! hehe


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## wolffeathers

I was checking out the ovcharkas, but I think our summer heat would just melt them. LOL We have a Great Pyr/Komondor and we have 100 degree weather right now and he handles it 'okay', but even though he has a long coat, it's not very dense.

I'm a sucker for big dogs.

Hubby has been entertaining the idea of a Great Dane(as a pet, not LGD) recently, but we both agree their lifespan tends to be too short. I have a dear friend who has had several and even with thousands of dollars in medical treatment, she's never gotten them past age 8.


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## FoxyWench

ive seen a few dane lines hit the 10+ age group but thats why i dont think ill ever own a dane, i LOVE them, i had one, and ive fostered a few, but i dont think i can handle another 8-10 yr lifespan, especially when im used to my cresties and they live 15-20 years...8-10 is never long enough.
im plannin to get a cane corso or boerboel as my "big" dog once i get my place.

im planning on moving to TN which s why i ruled out the orcharkas, but the CAS come in a shorter coat and aparently tend to be better with heat and arnt quite as high drive as the CO's. but the Boz certainly have caught my fancy and im a huge advocate of helping save/protect rare and "endangered" breeds.


horsepoor yay on the fjords, i grew up around shire horses and LOVE the big ole drafters, but could never afford to feed them lol. so i was looking into a smaller draft breed, (vanners, halflingers ect) and fell upon the fjord...then i met a few and its LOVE! there expensive, but id love at least one...my other dream horse is a smaller spotted draft but i cant aford the gypsies lol.


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## Goatress

Until the whopping (lol) 7 Boz in this country get grown up you are right there won't be a lot to report, I'm afraid, lol! I can tell you just from what I have observed here with my girl, the intelligence is astounding, as is the natural guarding instinct. Already Ekin loves her goats and has spent nights out in them with the older dogs for leaders and back up. At night she mimics the older dogs and goes on guard something fierce, when something startles her she turns into a roaring lion and goes and checks it out. She does perimeter patrol. I am very happy with her. Feet already bigger than my Kangal females'. Her mother was very large as was her father. Tough. She handles the heat extremely well. But so sweet with me. And super sensitive. Am thoroughly enjoying this fascinating breed. She's fit right in with all the others. I told Brian to give you some updates too.




























Dev Nazli, Ekin's mom in Turkey:


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## horsepoor21

Look at those feet !!!!! Ooooooh I am sooooo in love ! I think she needs to come stay with me for awhile Brenda !LOL


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## FoxyWench

shes beautiful!

see thats exactly what im looking for in a lgd, a dog who is not only into thier job but into their family too as on such a small acreage any LGD would be in direct contact with myself and my "pet" dogs on a regular basis.
the heat and humidity is definatly a big concern given im looking to purchase in western tn.


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## MonsterMalak

Sorry for the delay everyone. But my computer has a problem, and only wants to work part of the time,,,, like our congress...

Several points were brought up that are special to the Boz. They are great with their families, and good with people if shown it is acceptable. They learn what is NORMAL very quick, and will only investigate these things. Other situations will be reacted to with a measured response. I can take Monster to a crowded ballpark with hundreds of children, with him off the leash. But at home when a Satellite Installer wanted to walk around (as opposed to the norm of just going into the house) Monster went APE Poop on him. With new livestock, he will bark heavily untill shown they are accepted. Then within 2-3 days of introductions, will lay down and sleep with them. 

With regards to the HEAT, and especially this summer, the Boz are great. I take them on 2-3 mile walks in 95-100 degree temps. In town and in the country. Plus they are outside in it all the time. Has been 100-108 for 44 somthing days straight. And to see them out running to investigate threats, play, or come see me shows they ar not to distressed. Unlike the Pyrenees I ran for many years. In Turkey, many areas would offer no shade whatsoever for weeks on their travels with the flocks.

Also forgot to touch on their health and longevity. The Boz tend to live 12-14 years. With mothers having pups at 12-13. Basically just due to the thousands of years of harsh environment, extreme culling, poor nutrition, constant testing and breeding to the few that make it 8-13 years intact.

With regard to the roaming, not much different than the Kangals. Some hardly leave the yard, and others think I am the owner of a Huge ranch,,,haha. Dont get in trouble, just like to check out a larger perimeter. For the dogs in the pasture with the livestock, electric fence keeps them inside. I put a standout wire half way up sticking out aboue 1.5 feet.

I have never owned a Cao, Co, or the like, so my knowledge is just based on what I have read and heard. From what I understand, they can be unpredictable to belligerant to strangers. This would be quite the opposite to the Boz. As they will make someone stay back if unsure, will only react if the person posed a threat. They seem to have a great perception of what a threat is. Also are able to read your level of comfort. A dog you could take to childrens birthday parties, of fight off a attacker.

I should be getting in a 18.5 month old female Boz this week. Has not had her second heat yet, so am in hopes to be able to breed to Monster soon. She is 30.5 inches tall, 135 pounds at 18 months old. Comes from a great bloodline. Her grandfather Panzer is almost 40 inches tall. 
Little Diva my last import, is over 30 pounds at 9 weeks old, and has the structure of a well built male. Should look alot like Dev Nazli, the mother to Brendas girl.

Please do not think that I am saying the Boz are better than all the other breeds. Just different in some ways. So if those ways are things that would work better in your situation, they might be worth a try. 

Thanks for the interest. Seems to be spreading, as a man in Kuwait is wantng some pups also, request from 15 countries in just the past 5.5 months. Need some mood music for the girls,,haha.

Take care.


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## Goatress

....candlelight and Sinatra in the pastures maybe? LOL....don't forget the box of chocolates! 

I should weigh Ekin. I can no longer pick her up which says to me she is around 70 pds. My goat scale is 60 I can barely lift it but can manage. But I can no longer lift her off ground at all. She is slim, even ribs show slightly. But like my Spanish Mastiffs, all bone, muscle and skin, and heavy.


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## Pops2

wolffeathers said:


> I was checking out the ovcharkas, but I think our summer heat would just melt them. LOL We have a Great Pyr/Komondor and we have 100 degree weather right now and he handles it 'okay', but even though he has a long coat, it's not very dense.
> 
> I'm a sucker for big dogs.
> 
> Hubby has been entertaining the idea of a Great Dane(as a pet, not LGD) recently, but we both agree their lifespan tends to be too short. I have a dear friend who has had several and even with thousands of dollars in medical treatment, she's never gotten them past age 8.


because of the club emphasis on health testing several show breeders are consistantly getting danes in the 10-12 year range. the problem is like horsepoor you'll find a 12 page contract telling you what you can & can't do with your own dog. check your state laws as some states will not enforce such contracts as they treat dogs like the private property they are, once you pay for it & it's in your hands you can do what you want and the breeder can kiss off. you may also have to be less than forthcoming about how you intend to feed, train, & house.


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## MonsterMalak

The Kangal has become a victim of such contracts and control. Although they tout all it all on preservation of the breed, I feel itis all about maintaining control and a monopoly. Not selling any intact dogs without breeding control (severe control) seems to be the norm.

I spent years trying to get some of their Kangals. But not wanting to get a pup castrated or spayed at 8 weeks, or an intact dog that prevented my breeding at my choice, prevented my getting their stock. Story after story are out there of the measures to maintain this control. Might be why there are only 4 breeders in the KDCA now, not the 14-16 I remember some years back. 
And now they are an a Smear Campaign against the Boz, and Kangals imported from Turkey from the shepherds that utilize them. 

About the Great Dane, there are some people down here that are trying to select the Dane for hunting ability for Boar hunting. Trying to bring back its work ability and toughness. I applaud their abilities. As it is this working quality that seperates the Boz from most other dogs. Enough generations without this selection, and they to will loose these qualities. Is why we plan to import Boz stock as long as are able. 
The Turkish breeder Akin places hundreds of Boz out with shepherds for breeding, evaluation, testing, and as an effort to replace the quality of dog lost due to neglect in Turkey. With these hundreds of dogs being raised in the traditional tough environment, poor nutrition, hard work, constant testing gives him the ability to select dogs that have what it takes to improve the quality of the breed. Something that we would not be able to do in the USA. As few of us would kill all but the strongest pup in a litter, half starve them most their life, expose them to all the environmental extremes, fight to find the best wolf killers and kill any that are not functional. Would land us in prison. But these are the conditions that has developed such a tough dog that lives longer than most other huge breeds. 

Something for thought, as it has ruined to many of the great breeds of dogs we have today.


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## Pops2

there needs to be a like feature on this board so we don't have to take up a bunch of space to say great post.
that said
MM great post.


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## jordan

Pops2 said:


> once you pay for it & it's in your hands you can do what you want and the breeder can kiss off. you may also have to be less than forthcoming about how you intend to feed, train, & house.


Been there done that Pops! I can't believe that you're suggesting that people 
"Be less than forthcoming" in order to get a pup! I once had someone lie through their teeth about all the things you mention and more in order to get a pup. Needless to say, the worst mistake I ever made (and one I deeply regret) was selling them a dog. 

What you don't seem to understand Pops2, is that until that pup is sold, it BELONGS to the breeder and the breeder has the right to choose what environment the pup will be placed in. Some breeders are concerned about the welfare of their breed in general and their pups in particular and don't want to see their pups placed in a situation where they are not given the best care, neglected or abused. 

IMO, that someone would sign a contract with the intention of breaking it, says EVERYTHING about the type of person they are. How comfortable would you feel about buying from a liar?
Lois


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## MonsterMalak

I would like to avoid any conflict on this or any other forum,,, well life in general, but would like to explain my position on the contracts.

Although I understand the desire to ensure the quality life for a puppy one sells, I find it a disservice to the breed when the motive is to maintain a level of control or monopoly. To make sure that the person is knowledgable enough to care for the dog, will provide a good home, will not do a disservice to the breed is absolutely acceptable. 
To have a policy of not allowing any intact dogs out of their control, spaying and castrating at 8 weeks, co-ownerships that severely limit ones options may be alright if a individual breeder chooses to do so. But when the only breed club of a breed promotes this practice, where ar others to go. Sadly, the breed ends up stagnating, when no new breeders are allowed in the "club". Then the last remaining FEW hold on to control until the breed dies in obscurity. All the while reputing to be PROMOTING the breed.
How can a breed grow in utilization if so few intact dogs are allowed out, and the few that are, become severely restricted in breeding. The ranchers and farmers will never be able to afford the dogs, and Im sorry, but a pup castrated at 8 weeks will never grow up to be a wolf fighter. Will not have the bone structure, temperment, dominance or drive.

Again, I am not saying that a breeders intentions to ensure a good home are not noble. 
I choose to get to know my buyers through dozens of phone calls and emails. Just ask Horsepoor21. I want to understand your needs, expectations, knowledge level, intentions, abilities and personality. And believe me, I will steer you another direction if I feel you are not right for the dog, or the dog not right for you.

Lets please not turn this thread into a off subject argument. Many of us will have different opinions, and practices. Stating ones opinion is enough. We can all learn from each other, and it is better that way.


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## BarbadosSheep

I don't see a problem with a breeder requiring a reasonable contract. But not one that requires spay at 8 weeks! Most of the Anatolian breeders I talked to that were requiring spay and neuter wanted it done only after the animal was fully mature to allow them to develop properly. In my search for an Anatolian, I encountered some breeders who would allow the dog to stay intact for the purpose of showing, but never breeding. Huh?? Exactly what is the purpose of showing if you will never be allowed to breed? That was crazy. Most were quite reasonable though and for the protection of the breed, such as not breeding until OFA certification is done, only breed to other OFA certified registered Anatolians, etc. Many of the breeders wanted OFA certs done even on dogs sold as pet or LGD stock so they can monitor hips of all pups they produce. I find this commendable.


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## Goatress

horsepoor21 said:


> Look at those feet !!!!! Ooooooh I am sooooo in love ! I think she needs to come stay with me for awhile Brenda !LOL


You need one to compliment your Kangal! :~)

:hijacked: Hopefully the contract discussion will start its own thread and not take up the Boz thread after this.... :cowboy: 

Boz, as Brian has said, have been raised in such harsh conditions, culled for health and superiority and NO hip or eye or knee testing.....frankly, I'd put them up against any dog in this country that has been certified free of this and that, and would wager they'd be as sound if not sounder. The breed is so primitive. It is not shown or pampered at all in Turkey. Very unique. So many LGD breeds here in the US are being pushed for AKC recognition and all that goes with it. Which sometimes, is not good....


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## Fowler

Please dont tell my Maremma's that I that I have a secret crush on the Boz. eep:


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## MonsterMalak

My poor MONSTER is such a patient lover. He is holding vigil on my 6 year old Kangal female, that has learned to severely limit standing or walking. At least while in HEAT,,,,,haha. He even shared some table scraps with her,,,true love 

Sadly, if neighbors see him, would think I am starving him. Poor boy is skinny due to his Pepe Le Pew (or whatever that cartoon was ) efforts. A friend of mine that has not been over in some time came by and Monster did not like him foe some reason. I could not have paid that man to come in the pasture.

The heat and dust is Horrible in Texas. Hay is 80-120$ a roll if you can find it. No grass for the livestock, 100+ days since June, and no rain in sight. Now they are saying we are going to have a dry winter. Hey!!! If anyone likes BEEF JERKY, I have some still on the hoof. Gladly, theKangals and Bozare great. Not eating as much, but still very active. Even running in the pasture play fighting when it cools down to 98 or so. Much better than the Big White Hairy dogs I had for years. 

What is te Meremmas qualities or work characteristics. I have never been around them. Just was hypothetically thinking of what type of LGDs would cross with he Boz to meet different situations or needs.


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## Pops2

jordan said:


> Been there done that Pops! I can't believe that you're suggesting that people
> "Be less than forthcoming" in order to get a pup! I once had someone lie through their teeth about all the things you mention and more in order to get a pup. Needless to say, the worst mistake I ever made (and one I deeply regret) was selling them a dog.
> 
> What you don't seem to understand Pops2, is that until that pup is sold, it BELONGS to the breeder and the breeder has the right to choose what environment the pup will be placed in. Some breeders are concerned about the welfare of their breed in general and their pups in particular and don't want to see their pups placed in a situation where they are not given the best care, neglected or abused.
> 
> IMO, that someone would sign a contract with the intention of breaking it, says EVERYTHING about the type of person they are. How comfortable would you feel about buying from a liar?
> Lois


not suggesting that they lie just telling them that it may come to that.
i know for a fact most of the people with healthy stock of certain breeds will not sell to a working home PERIOD. you can hit every wicket in their contract including not wanting to breed and so sterilizing the dog. i know of breeders in this same situation that will not sell to you if you feed raw. i know others that will not sell to you if you feed kibble (regardless if it is the best quality made). i know of breeders that won't sell outside a specific area even if you're willing to drive 3,000 miles to pick the pup up in person.
i don't like it (it grates hard on me to be dishonest in any way), i haven't done it yet, but i accept that it may come to outright fraud to get the healthy stock i want to work the way i need and build upon it in to what i really need.


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## Goatress

> Just was hypothetically thinking of what type of LGDs would cross with he Boz to meet different situations or needs.


I'd like to eventually digress on this more too Brian...maybe we should start a new thread about the 'dreaded' "C word" lol....crossbreeding.....!


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## Wolf Flower

MonsterMalak said:


> and Im sorry, but a pup castrated at 8 weeks will never grow up to be a wolf fighter. Will not have the bone structure, temperment, dominance or drive.


Does that mean females cannot be wolf fighters either?


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## Wolf Flower

Goatress said:


> I'd like to eventually digress on this more too Brian...maybe we should start a new thread about the 'dreaded' "C word" lol....crossbreeding.....!


I have nothing against crossbreeding dogs for WORKING purposes. I do not consider that a "designer dog".

I too am interested in the kind of qualities you would shoot for with crossbreeding LGDs. My Akbash dog is perfect for me, but I think he is unusual for his breed--very tolerant of strangers and dogs coming in and out of my grooming shop (which is on "his" property)... of course if a loose dog is running along the fenceline, all bets are off, but I have client dogs board with me sometimes and he doesn't bat an eye at them. Some would call this incorrect temperament for an LGD, but for my situation, it's exactly what I need: a dog that can discern between a true threat and a non-threat, that isn't simply hell-bent on keeping everyone and everything OUT, that is relatively easygoing and can accept strangers and other dogs when properly introduced. 

When I lose my Akbash, I will cry, because I don't know if I could find another like him.


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## wolffeathers

Have any of the handful of Boz that have come to the US been health tested(hips, elbows, etc)? How about Boz Kennels?(I can't read their stuff and can't figure out how to translate it easily).

I know there are all of 7 or 8 Boz here, and all are under 2 years. Just curious.


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## Goatress

Wolf Flower said:


> I have nothing against crossbreeding dogs for WORKING purposes. I do not consider that a "designer dog".
> 
> I too am interested in the kind of qualities you would shoot for with crossbreeding LGDs. My Akbash dog is perfect for me, but I think he is unusual for his breed--very tolerant of strangers and dogs coming in and out of my grooming shop (which is on "his" property)... of course if a loose dog is running along the fenceline, all bets are off, but I have client dogs board with me sometimes and he doesn't bat an eye at them. Some would call this incorrect temperament for an LGD, but for my situation, it's exactly what I need: a dog that can discern between a true threat and a non-threat, that isn't simply hell-bent on keeping everyone and everything OUT, that is relatively easygoing and can accept strangers and other dogs when properly introduced.
> 
> When I lose my Akbash, I will cry, because I don't know if I could find another like him.


Here is what you get when you cross a Kangal on a very tall Anatolian/Maremma: a pup that is pushing 30 inches at just 6 mos of age. The Kangal boy I bought from Brian is one day apart from this pup. Probably half the size. And that is not to slight my Kangal pup either; he is gorgeous, filling out and going to be a tall beautiful Kangal. Just that the cross i did (and it was the second time for this) brought out something extra... and Elk was born bigger than all the rest and only increased size difference with every passing week. He is also the first LGD pup I've ever had who has never wanted to play or chase the goats; all pups go through a stage for that - some worse than others - not this guy. All work, all business from the get-go. Calm, focused, presence like a leopard. Sweet natured. I suspect he'll outgrow his 34" dad and dad is huge, but he was never this big at this age. 

My opinion on crossing different breeds: if done with goal in mind, and carefull, there are points and arguments for bringing in new blood into breeds that sometimes are faltering and going down hill fast with health issues, 'shrinking' from inbreeding/linebreeding/AKC syndrome, in need of more bone or mass, more agility, guarding instinct, stamina, courage, etc. 



Elk:










Errol (Kangal boy) and Ekin (Boz girl); actually that's one of my Pyr girls behind them, I thought it was Elk but it's not big enough to be him ;~):


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## Goatress

wolffeathers said:


> Have any of the handful of Boz that have come to the US been health tested(hips, elbows, etc)? How about Boz Kennels?(I can't read their stuff and can't figure out how to translate it easily).
> 
> I know there are all of 7 or 8 Boz here, and all are under 2 years. Just curious.


No. I know where they all are and who owns them, and so does Brian (he owns most of them, lol!). None have been tested. I would like to for the heck of it see the hip score on Ekin. Probably very good if not perfect. They don't health test in Turkey and have no HD, no issues like that. Remember, they cull litters. Pups don't make it, they figure its for a reason. Males are fought to separate the weak from the strong. Never overweight. Primitive diet. Run miles. Fit. Tough. The weak ones die and aren't bred. But how about over here???? Well, let's not even go there, shall we not?

There is so much to be said for this harsh way of raising dogs. Now, could I do it? Well, perhaps I already do in some respects, in that I DO cull my litters. But.... All you have to do is watch these dogs move, even as pups, sure they have clumsy moments, but the agility and coordination they have is astounding. Kind of harping back to my last post about cross breeding, what so many breeds could benefit from a one time input of Boz into them, or a good Kangal, then keep back half Boz/Kangal-pups, and breed them back into the breed needing improvement. And breed those pups back to the breed needing improvement, and on, so forth...you get my drift.

OK so don't all you purebred breeders go postal on me for what I just said. I am not saying let's all go do that. But seriously, how many breeds are there out there even in the LGD world, that have been AKC'd and shown and linebred and inbred to the moon, with eye issues, hip issues, bloat issues, can't raise litters without losing some or most of the pups, have to have C sections, have to be AI'd to take, have lost their backbone, courage and grit....and THAT IS WHY you have to have them tested! Because in short, we have created this. We pamper our dogs, we keep and breed some that should have been culled to begin with, we nursemaid a ***** losing pups that should be lost (why I didn't flinch when my Kangal had some stillborns, it was natures' way of not letting the unfit ones live). Well crap, Boz don't bloat in Turkey and they are huge dogs. Why? Adequate exercise, keeps their muscles built up and that in turn keeps stomach held in well.....and the diet. Primitive. 

No testing. 'Don't NEED no 'stinkin' testing', to be frank with you. Why do we test? Because we have been programmed to accept the fact that we are surrounded by mediocrity and to accept health issues as 'just goes along with the breed'. Oh, BS. It honestly should not have to.... Same for temperament. Bad temperaments should not be bred, period, I don't care how 'perfect' they may be (in the eyes of their breeder) in conformation or movement. Movement is NOT everything. Nothing is everything. It is a whole package..... OK off my soapbox for now you guys can rip into me later lmao!


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## Wolf Flower

Goatress said:


> Here is what you get when you cross a Kangal on a very tall Anatolian/Maremma: a pup that is pushing 30 inches at just 6 mos of age.


Wow. Is there any LGD breed that isn't absolutely monstrously huge?  

We live on just one acre, with a small herd of goats and a bunch of poultry. We don't have large predators to speak of, no lion or wolf or bear. Mainly it's pesky varmints like raccoon and skunk that can get in. Our fence keeps loose dogs out. So we don't need a giant wolf-killer of a dog.
Any ideas for a smaller LGD breed? Our Akbash is about 130 lean pounds, which isn't monstrous, but he's barely managable when he doesn't want to do something.


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## wolffeathers

Thanks Goattress, I would love to see tests done on them too. I understand that mother nature weeds them out traditionally in harsh conditions and I would bet their test scores would be excellent. I was just curious if someone had actually taken the step to test them and what the scores were.


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## Goatress

Wolf Flower said:


> Wow. Is there any LGD breed that isn't absolutely monstrously huge?
> 
> We live on just one acre, with a small herd of goats and a bunch of poultry. We don't have large predators to speak of, no lion or wolf or bear. Mainly it's pesky varmints like raccoon and skunk that can get in. Our fence keeps loose dogs out. So we don't need a giant wolf-killer of a dog.
> Any ideas for a smaller LGD breed? Our Akbash is about 130 lean pounds, which isn't monstrous, but he's barely managable when he doesn't want to do something.


LOL... I still have Pyrenees. My male Peso is a whopping 160 but Paloma is much smaller, she has some Polish Tatra in her. For what she lacks in size she makes up for in drive and aggressive guarding. She can flat haul buns after a threat. Her last batch of pups came out great and I'm hearing they are very advanced and doing well at their new homes. I was going to cross them again probably this winter or spring.









This happy guy is guarding sheep in Canada...the two below are with the two Boz pups.








Mamma here, not really that big as you can see.









Because she is probably only 100 pds soaking wet, those pups I doubt get very big, that is maybe 100-140 or so. Some Pyrs can run smaller, I have seen some Maremmas that are smaller too. I mean around 100-110 or so. My Pyr girls are probably 120 or so. Should weigh them again to make sure. Anyhow yes there sure are smaller options out there!!!:thumb:


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## wolffeathers

Loving the puppy pics. <3


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## bluetick

Have to get my .02 in! I have never owned and probably never will own a LGD, but enjoy reading about them and seeing pictures.

The pictures of Ekin are especially interesting, as is the story on these dogs. I am most impressed by the stockiness of her legs and feet. There is some real power there! She is a really nice looking dog. Good luck with her and your breeding program! (My German shepherds are now sulking in a corner...)


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## MonsterMalak

Thought I would share some new pictures of Breedings in the future.
First will be of a new import female 18 months and Monster my boy.








This is the Girl I should get next week, was to be ast week (but as with importation, delays and problems are the norm)








Monster picture @10 months will be the Sire.
Next breeding in Turkey is for my bloodstock, and I will get 1 male 1 female pup.








Minik 38.54 inches, 256 pounds.








Dam Stare, SOLID built Female. Tougher than most males!!!

I am also working to import several bred females from Turkey, to get some puppies sooner, and increase the genetic diversity. 








Just had to throw in a picture of Sefir, Max's father. The maturity between ag 2 and three has been immense. He is heading to Korea, after having sold for $79,000.








Shows the growth even after 2 years old.


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## Cheryl aka JM

You are killing me! If I didn't already have and love my Anatolians....wow are those gorgeous dogs!


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## Goatress

This is a 5th generation female that Akin is going to try to breed to Minik, his tallest male, he says she is afraid of Minik (wink can you blame her?!). But look at how tall she is....legs like I have never seen. I am going to try to get a female out of that cross, I may even break down and get a male. Can you imagine how tall they'd be.....


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## nikko

i wish you all were closer---i am loving this breed!!


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## Fowler

I am loving all the LGD pics, and I love big dogs. Here's a phone shot of my maremma boys 2 days ago. They are only 8 months old. Does anyone else's dogs drink water, under water....LOL


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## MonsterMalak

WELL!!!!!
After Delay, STRESS, and unforseen additional shipping expense (Custom Built Crate, because she would not Fit into the Largest manufactured Kennel. And additional Weight!!) The Newest and Oldest Boz Shepherd is getting to feel the Texas Heat!

She is a Beautiful Dog that has a Presence not captured in Pictures. With her Mass, Bone structure, huge feet, power and personality, she will be a great addition to the Boz Genetics in the USA.

Being not quite full grown at 18 months old, she is already 30.75 inches and around 145 pounds. Her and Monster will surely have impressive offspring!!








This was a tense Boz Tail Sniff Off!!
Sheba is in front, look at her structure!








This is Monster and Sheba. Would pass as siblings!








Sheba investigating her new DOMAIN!!
Pulling my son around without much effort. Cant imagine her power when confronting a Wolf.


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## FoxyWench

oh wow shes stunning!
MM id also LOVE to find out more about the folks breeding danes for boar hunting...i grew up with a euro dane whos father was used for hunting (though not a good breeder bred harl to harl, i managed to save the last of the white pups, all of which were deaf) but he was amazing. i love danes but HATE what the akc show ring has done to them.


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## Pops2

Hi Foxy
the only people (that i've heard of) in the USA using danes are a couple of guys in TX. the dogs are just so so from what can be seen on nat geo. i got a dane gyp from the shelter in UT that has a bunch of drive but not much skills yet. she's caught a **** & pup coyote so far. i just started making connections for the few hogs in UT down near the AZ/NV border i'll try to get her on those and let folks know. in the mean time i'll try to get her on coyote & cats up here where i'm at. i think my greyX has the stamina & speed to run the coyotes down but i don't think he can kill them alone. anyway we'll see and i'll let folks know.
as for breeding, the guy on the nat geo is trying to establish a "boarhound" registry restricted to danes that hunt boar. so far it's him & 1 guy. between them they have 3 dogs & one tiny merle gyp. if he sticks pure registered danes then he is selecting from a smaller portion of an already small & damaged gene pool.
if it were me
i'd register both pure & mix w/ mixes only partly registered. then allow the mixed lines to grade up & recieve full registration at 7/8 dane. i'd also allow other game than hogs to qualify since the original stock hunted bear, wolf & lynx as well.


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