# black LGD?



## colemangirly (Sep 30, 2010)

Okay, a lady in the next town over has some GP/Anatolian mix puppies that she needs to find a home for. I am all excited, because I need a LGD and .....

So anyway, I call her, here is the deal. They are 5 month old puppies that she got for her goats about two months ago. Not soon after, she had to sell her goats due to family sickness. So ever since pups have not been with goats and were only with goats in next pen as they were so young, so never with them "full time" so to speak. They have been with the chickens and have been good so far. Is it too late for them to bond to my goats as they have really not bonded to goats previously?

Also, I asked her if they had more of the GP coat or the Anatolian coat and she said sort of inbetween, but they were black with white on them. EXCUSE ME??? I did not know there were any black Anatolian's

Is this possible? Or does this color come out with the mix.

Would love to get one, but now undecided.

Thanks;
Tadpole Acres

Oh, they are well socialized and have all had vet checks and shots


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## Faithful (Jul 15, 2011)

I have seen a couple the black color is rear color,I had a great pyr mixed my first ldg was white and she got out on me after she bred my AKC reg.she had pups mixed with lab? collie mix? and one turned out to look like my male Savage , the pupwas black wit a white blaze on his chest. turned out to be the best dog.
How young are they? if theiy have been with chickens you might be able to put them wit goats slowly I would want to start with the pup on a leash and keep them in a pen next to the goats when your not with them.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Personally, I'd be a little leary of them. Although any coat color is acceptable in Anatolians, I have never seen or heard of a black and white one. I have never seen pictures of any black Turkish dog at all either. and being half GP too, you'd think their coats would be lighter, not black and white. 

Heres an interesting article I saved. It states:

"The black Anatolians that have been observed in Turkey may be a phenotypic expression of a very dark brindle with or without a homozygous BB pair of alleles to code for black. There is no information currently available on the pedigrees of black dogs. The possibility also exists that these are not purebred dogs, however, the Tibetan Mastiff--an Anatolian ancestor--commonly exhibits a black coat."

http://www.anatoliandog.org/genetic.htm


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

white dogs like GPs are gentically a color (red/brown or black) w/ a white spot over their whole body. black is dominant over red/brown and so you can't get true black dogs from two red/brown dogs but you can get red/brown dogs from black dogs that carry for it.
the grey of "badger" marked GPs may be a dilute of black as such they would be genetically black dogs & when bred to a solid colored dog could produce solid or mostly black dogs.
what's really scary is that there are people who don't understand this VERY BASIC aspect of dog genetics that are "breeders" of LGDs.

there may be mutts in Turkey w/ Tazi or Kars in them that are black, but since the TURKS DO NOT recognize any such breed as anatolian, there is no such thing as black anatolians in Turkey (unless they decided to import this breed created in the USA).


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## colemangirly (Sep 30, 2010)

They are 5 months old. I also never heard of black anatolian, only fawn and brindle, but I don't know "that" much about them either. Have beed studying behavior, not color, it just threw me for a loop and I wondered. I have since found another person that had a darker Anatolian and also a Pyr and they had pups, some of them were also black with a little white on them, so maybe it is possible. These people were COMPLETELY sure as both parents were registered.

Thanks again;
Tadpole Acres


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

yeah...I know the breed known as Anatolian Shepherd dog is not recognized in Turkey and I never said it was. that was not my article. Anatolian Shepherd dog is the name given to a strain of dogs that was selectively bred from Turkish working dogs of similar type.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

colemangirly said:


> They are 5 months old. I also never heard of black anatolian, only fawn and brindle, but I don't know "that" much about them either. Have beed studying behavior, not color, it just threw me for a loop and I wondered. I have since found another person that had a darker Anatolian and also a Pyr and they had pups, some of them were also black with a little white on them, so maybe it is possible. These people were COMPLETELY sure as both parents were registered.
> 
> Thanks again;
> Tadpole Acres


but are they completely sure that there was not a different male dog involved? That's the thing that would concern me. Stray dogs breed females all the time. I have never ever seen a litter of Anatolian/pyr crosses that are black. But if the price is right and you are willing to take the chance, go for it! they may be perfect. Many LGD crossed with other type breeds end up being good LGDs.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

colemangirly: RED FLAG.


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## colemangirly (Sep 30, 2010)

Okay,

was the red flag because I did something wrong, or because this should be a red flag that this isn't what I want.

Sorry if I did anything, please explain

Tadpole Acres


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Pretty she means red flag on the pups....you didn't do anything wrong.

Something else you said made me thing. The pups are 5 months old and she has had them only 2 months. that means she did not breed this litter so she can't say for sure that both parents are what she was told they were. She is only going by what SHE was told.


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## colemangirly (Sep 30, 2010)

Okay, that is sort of what I was thinking about passing on these. I know she didn't breed the dogs, I had been referring about someone else that I talked to that did breed a Pyr with an Anatolian and got a couple black with white and they were sure of the cross.

But I don't think I want to take a chance on my precious goaties.

Thanks all for confirming my fears

Tadpole Acres


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Be patient. I know that's easier said than done, but the right dog will come along and you will be so glad you waited.


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## colemangirly (Sep 30, 2010)

Just in case any of you wanted to see pics of the people I talked to that were sure of their cross, I guess the parents weren't registered, but we each half both themselves, but they have pics of both the parents and the pups, two ended up black with some white, some white, some anatolian colored.

You can see the pics if you go to the barter board and search LGD

They are under the post LGD puppies - Ozark County

Tell me what you think of these two pups turning out black

Tadpole Acres


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

colemangirly: LOL not you sweetie the pups..... peace love dove!


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

I just looked for that thread. He said his parent dogs were both crosses too. I don't know if he bred them or not. If he didn't....how can he be sure what's behind the genetics? That black puppy looks like it has something else in it to me. the legs aren't even white...they are more speckled, like you'd see on a bird dog or something. They are cute as can be but I'd be suspect that they were only Anatolian/pyr genetics in those pups. Female dogs can get bred by more than one male during her heat. She may have gotten bred by their male and also some sneaky dog from down the street. I just am really suspicious about the coloring of those black pups.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> These people were COMPLETELY sure as both parents were *registered*.



First , I'd wonder why anyone would crossbreed "registered" dogs?

It makes no sense to do it intentionally

Also keep in mind WHERE they are "registered" makes a lot of difference, since some "kennel clubs" will let you register anything that even remotely resembles a canine


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> First , I'd wonder why anyone would crossbreed "registered" dogs?
> 
> It makes no sense to do it intentionally
> 
> Also keep in mind WHERE they are "registered" makes a lot of difference, since some "kennel clubs" will let you register anything that even remotely resembles a canine


i know of a fella that pulled off hanging AKC papers on a pig as a toy poodle.


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