# Mike Rowe Is Right About The Unvaccinated



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

> Over the weekend, television host Mike Rowe responded to a user on Facebook who had asked him why he didn’t do more to encourage his viewers to get the coronavirus vaccines. Rowe’s response was one of the better I’ve seen: He said he had gotten vaccinated as soon as he was able, that he believed the vaccines work, but that he understands the reasons why so many Americans are still hesitant.
> 
> _The Bulwark’s _Jonathan V. Last took Rowe’s reasonable reply and distorted it to accuse the “Dirty Jobs” star of peddling anti-vaccine rhetoric. I won’t bother responding to every one of Last’s points because Rowe has already done a great job of that himself here:
> 
> ...


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I said pretty much the same thing last week on here. I guess I am anti in his eyes also.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

I've said as much myself. Dems actively and deliberately discredited the vaccine before it was even ready. Now everyone is supposed to trust it because Democrats hold a majority?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Rowe didn't say much at all. He said that he understands why some Americans are vaccine hesitant, but that's as far as he went, at least according to the article. The author then makes a lot of unsupported claims.

*Yes, the government’s lockdown efforts did a lot more harm than good *

He doesn't say how it did harm, or who might have determined that.

*the continued imposition of restrictions has gotten out of control*

In what way are restrictions out of control, and in who's opinion?

*many of our officials were dishonest and hypocritical *

Who was dishonest, and what was said that was hypocritical? But the author assures us of the validity:

*All of these complaints are true and justified.*

If they are true and justified we can't very well question them.

Good grief!


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

kinderfeld said:


> I've said as much myself. Dems actively and deliberately discredited the vaccine before it was even ready. Now everyone is supposed to trust it because Democrats hold a majority?


It is my firm belief that if the 2020 election had turned out differently, there would be mobs of shrill anti-vaxxers all over the place.

And I would still not have taken that experimental drug.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Nevada said:


> Rowe didn't say much at all. He said that he understands why some Americans are vaccine hesitant, but that's as far as he went, at least according to the article. The author then makes a lot of unsupported claims.
> 
> *Yes, the government’s lockdown efforts did a lot more harm than good *
> 
> ...


If you had been paying more attention the answers to your questions would have been obvious--

More harm than good-- course of epidemic not altered at all by restrictions imposed, but suicides, rates of depression & domestic violence m business markedly higher; business clsings enormously higher; GDP fell by 6% thanks to lock downs, and now we have 5% inflation thanks to silly Dem spending programs supposedlu meant to counteract the fall in GDP.

Restrictions out of control-- I've posted all the stats to show restirctions have done ZERO good, but are still being re-instituted and new mandates considered that will do more harm than good again, but more importntly, are uncostitutional, detracting from our freedom.

Officials dishonest, etc-- you don't get it? How many Dems have inmposed restrictions, then ignore them themselves. The list is long. Dr. Falsey & the CDC have changed recommendations repeatedly, none correlating to the science.

I can see why you think the way you do--It must be hard to see from where your head has been shoved.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Nevada said:


> Rowe didn't say much at all. He said that he understands why some Americans are vaccine hesitant, but that's as far as he went, at least according to the article. The author then makes a lot of unsupported claims.
> 
> *Yes, the government’s lockdown efforts did a lot more harm than good *
> 
> ...


Point 1 Who it harmed? Drug and alcohol abuse rates are much higher, as are rates of suicide and depression, especially among teens. Just ask the D's (while Trump was President).
I know of 20 small business' that WERE doing well previously, but the lockdown put them out of business. All of them 'Mom and Pop' type, who didn't have the inside track to get government help.

Point 2 They were out of control. People keep saying 'the science', Most of the restrictions that were in place were not science, but fear mongering, making people afraid to do anything, except hoard toilet paper.

Point 3 In MY state, our Guv was very much "Do as I say, not as I do". Going 'up North' to their 'cottage', and her husband actually asking "Do you know who I am?" to a local business to get to the head of the line. She also made a 'hush-hush' trip to FLA to visit her father(on a chartered plane). bringing back her 2 (older teenaged) kids (who didn't quarantine afterwards, neither did she) yet neglecting say she brought them back. Ohh yeah, how quickly the 6 people per table indoor limit and indoor food service restrictions got changed 2 days after she and 20 of her closest friend got busted pushing tables together at a local establishment (in violation of HER orders) when a video went viral.

She is considered one of the brightest rising stars in the D party, so yeah...

FWIW, I didn't vote for Trump


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Riverdale said:


> Point 1 Who it harmed? Drug and alcohol abuse rates are much higher,


They have more time to drink.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Rowe didn't say much at all. He said that he understands why some Americans are vaccine hesitant, but that's as far as he went, at least according to the article. The author then makes a lot of unsupported claims.
> 
> *Yes, the government’s lockdown efforts did a lot more harm than good *
> 
> ...


I actually read his complete comment rather than the theory behind his comment or little snippets and he's not wrong to state his opinion. I personally feel a celebrity has no business telling me or anyone else what we need to do. They aren't scientists, have no medical background and shouldn't be offering medical advice to anybody. 

I've also offered you some questions that you flat out refuse to answer, while you're busy hard selling masks and then vaccinations and I notice you don't seem overly fond of scrutiny. 

I've asked you numerous times about instances of significant side effects associated with vaccines and even when faced with science, you've called them speculative or refused to discuss it because you feel it muddy's the water.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

My wife and I sat in a booth next to a woman at a small diner Saturday. She opened a retail shop in late summer 2019. She is on the main drag and business was booming.
2020 came and she was forced to lock down and shut down. She lived off her husband's job and their savings for the rest of the year. She reopened her store and was breaking even thru the spring with just enough income to pay the bills. This summer has been good. 
If there is another lockdown she is done. To invest so much in a building, inventory and overhead and make less than her sister at Walmart, she won't have a choice but to join her. She'll just flip off the lights and put a sign on the door "Closed due to virus contagion. Please go to Walmart for your goods".


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> They have more time to drink.


Once again, you respond to one point and ignore the rest. Why is that?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

wr said:


> I've also offered you some questions that you flat out refuse to answer, while you're busy hard selling masks and then vaccinations and I notice you don't seem overly fond of scrutiny.


I saw on the news that Canada has enacted a vaccine mandate for US citizens entering their country. What's up with that?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> I saw on the news that Canada has enacted a vaccine mandate for US citizens entering their country. What's up with that?


It's quite a bit broader than US visitors and I believe the US is working on similar but that really doesn't answer my question. Does it?


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Nevada said:


> I saw on the news that Canada has enacted a vaccine mandate for US citizens entering their country. What's up with that?


Obviously, they value the security of their southern border and citizens more than our government does ours.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I personally believe, that if you require visitors to be vaccinated then you should also require all citizens to be vaccinated.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> I personally believe, that if you require visitors to be vaccinated then you should also require all citizens to be vaccinated.


Than Canada is not living up to your dictates.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> Than Canada is not living up to your dictates.


It is my opinion, not my dictate, and yes I don't agree with the stance of expecting something of some but not the rest. The only way I believe it could be justified is that if a country had not Covid infection ( or very little) and the country they were coming in from had an ongoing problem.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

painterswife said:


> I personally believe, that if you require visitors to be vaccinated then you should also require all citizens to be vaccinated.


I’m against any and all vaccine mandates.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> It is my opinion, not my dictate, and yes I don't agree with the stance of expecting something of some but not the rest. The only way I believe it could be justified is that if a country had not Covid infection ( or very little) and the country they were coming in from had an ongoing problem.


So have a million illegals coming over our borders and spreading out through out the country, some covid positive and basically not having any info on their medical, criminal status is acceptable? I'm more of the opinion a sovereign nation can protect itself from outside threats and these million illegals present threats on multiple levels. I don't think we should vaccinate them, just round them up and ship them back.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

no really said:


> So have a million illegals coming over our borders and spreading out through out the country, some covid positive and basically not having any info on their medical, criminal status is acceptable? I'm more of the opinion a sovereign nation can protect itself from outside threats and these million illegals present threats on multiple levels. I don't think we should vaccinate them, just round them up and ship them back.


I agree 💯 %.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> So have a million illegals coming over our borders and spreading out through out the country, some covid positive and basically not having any info on their medical, criminal status is acceptable? I'm more of the opinion a sovereign nation can protect itself from outside threats and these million illegals present threats on multiple levels. I don't think we should vaccinate them, just round them up and ship them back.


I don't understand why you feel the need to bring up illegal immigration on every thread about Covid and quite often pointed at me?
I don't believe that any person crossing the border should be treated any differently with regards to covid. One rule for everyone. I also don't believe in illegal immigration.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Rowe didn't say much at all. He said that he understands why some Americans are vaccine hesitant, but that's as far as he went, at least according to the article. The author then makes a lot of unsupported claims.
> 
> *Yes, the government’s lockdown efforts did a lot more harm than good *
> 
> ...


You are kidding right?
Thousands of businesses closed forever, thousands of people lost everything they had.
Depression, suicides, children being locked away from friends during the years they form lifelong relationships.
But heck, the dems made political points, so you don't care.
just keep making excuses for your incompetent heroes of the toxic left.
I bet Biden will still get and cash his paycheck.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Mike Rowe excerpt:

"The point I was trying to make, is that half the country has lost faith in our most important institutions. We have a massive credibility problem, exacerbated by powerful people who not only moved the goalposts time and time again, but championed the same restrictions they chose to ignore. In my view, this steady drip of hypocrisy helped foster a deep level of mistrust among millions of unvaccinated Americans."


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I don't understand why you feel the need to bring up illegal immigration on every thread about Covid and quite often pointed at me?
> I don't believe that any person crossing the border should be treated any differently with regards to covid. One rule for everyone. I also don't believe in illegal immigration.


Because Biden and company are relocating illegals with Covid to places that are recovering to make is look like those places failed.
It's blatant.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> Because Biden and company are relocating illegals with Covid to places that are recovering to make is look like those places failed.
> It's blatant.


Are you trying to get this thread tossed by being political?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Are you trying to get this thread tossed by being political?


Are you asking questions whose answer is political?
Illegals are being weaponized by politicians to spread Covid.
Illegals is a big part of the Covid conversation as well as the politicization of the virus.
But you knew that


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> I don't understand why you feel the need to bring up illegal immigration on every thread about Covid and quite often pointed at me?
> I don't believe that any person crossing the border should be treated any differently with regards to covid. One rule for everyone. I also don't believe in illegal immigration.


Simple, I live on the border my property line is the Rio Grande, I see what is happening first hand. 

We are being told the covid is killing and supremely dangerous, yet there are some that don't see the herd of elephants in the room. The million illegals who the few tested many are covid positive and housed in local hotels than released within a couple of days. Most are not tested just released, no place to house them. They use social media for rides to all over the US. 

That is why I bring it up.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Are you trying to get this thread tossed by being political?


Are you planning on moving it soon or will you discuss that with the rest of the team first?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> Simple, I live on the border my property line is the Rio Grande, I see what is happening first hand.
> 
> We are being told the covid is killing and supremely dangerous, yet there are some that don't see the herd of elephants in the room. The million illegals who the few tested many are covid positive and housed in local hotels than released within a couple of days. Most are not tested just released, no place to house them. They use social media for rides to all over the US.
> 
> That is why I bring it up.


Millions of Americans refuse to be vaccinated. They are traveling the country as well. Spreading Covid. It makes no difference if the illegals are positive because Americans are doing just as much damage. Americans are crossing back and forth across that same border not vaccinated.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Millions of Americans refuse to be vaccinated. They are traveling the country as well. Spreading Covid. It makes no difference if the illegals are positive because Americans are doing just as much damage. Americans are crossing back and forth across that same border not vaccinated.


Americans are here legally, these people are not. What are the procedures for in coming flights, oh yeah they must have covid negative tests or proof of vax. 

*** Effective January 26, all airline passengers to the United States ages two years and older, including U.S. citizens and Lawful Permanent Residents (LPR), must provide a negative COVID-19 viral test taken within three calendar days of travel. Alternatively, travelers to the U.S. may provide documentation from a licensed health care provider of having recovered from COVID-19 in the 90 days preceding travel. Check the CDC website for additional information and Frequently Asked Questions. Waivers to the testing requirement may be granted by the CDC on an extremely limited basis in extraordinary circumstances.





__





Information About COVID-19 and Travel to the United States


The Biden Administration announced a new international air travel policy that is stringent, consistent across the globe, and guided by public health.




be.usembassy.gov


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

painterswife said:


> Millions of Americans refuse to be vaccinated. They are traveling the country as well. Spreading Covid. It makes no difference if the illegals are positive because Americans are doing just as much damage. Americans are crossing back and forth across that same border not vaccinated.


Americans have a right to be here and a right to travel within their nation. Illegals have no right to be here period.
As for your assertions that the “unvaccinated” are spreading the virus, you do know that you’re equally as capable of spreading the virus if you’re vaccinated right? Because it’s a fact.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> Americans are here legally, these people are not. What are the procedures for in coming flights, oh yeah they must have covid negative tests or proof of vax.
> 
> *** Effective January 26, all airline passengers to the United States ages two years and older, including U.S. citizens and Lawful Permanent Residents (LPR), must provide a negative COVID-19 viral test taken within three calendar days of travel. Alternatively, travelers to the U.S. may provide documentation from a licensed health care provider of having recovered from COVID-19 in the 90 days preceding travel. Check the CDC website for additional information and Frequently Asked Questions. Waivers to the testing requirement may be granted by the CDC on an extremely limited basis in extraordinary circumstances.
> 
> ...


Those rules are only for air flights. That means that not every person crossing a border is treated equally. An American or any other person can cross the southern border not vaccinated and negate the entire good that the airline rules do. Then we have the water borders. Same thing unequal rules.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The completely open border....









July Apprehension Numbers Have Entered Historic Crisis Level


In the physics of illegal immigration at the U.S. southern border, the long, sweltering days of June and July usually bring traffic to a cyclical ebb. But this June — and now July — the number of immigrants who have entered illegally has apparently defied all such physics.




cis.org





"210,000 in July"

Coming soon to a neighborhood near you. Tuberculosis, etc. 

A pre-Covid article with statistics. 









Illegal immigrants bring disease into the U.S.


The Immigration and Nationality Act mandates that all immigrants and refugees undergo a medical screening examination to determine whether they have an inadmissible health condition. The Centers for …



www.thetimesnews.com


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Kiamichi Kid said:


> Americans have a right to be here and a right to travel within their nation. Illegals have no right to be here period.
> As for your assertions that the “unvaccinated” are spreading the virus, you do know that you’re equally as capable of spreading the virus if you’re vaccinated right? Because it’s a fact.


You do realize that once they have crossed the border and have been released they are here legally though without some rights to work etc. So in reality they are no longer illegal and have the same rights as any visitor or to the US to travel the country and be treated equally under the laws of this country.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Those rules are only for air flights. That means that not every person crossing a border is treated equally. An American or any other person can cross the southern border not vaccinated and negate the entire good that the airline rules do. Then we have the water borders. Same thing unequal rules.


So you agree the illegals should be rounded up and returned. What's works for one area of entrance should be applied to all areas of entry.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> You do realize that once they have crossed the border and have been released they are here legally though without some rights to work etc. So in reality they are no longer illegal and have the same rights as any visitor to the US to travel the country.


So they have visa's LOL.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> So you agree the illegals should be rounded up and returned. What's works for one area of entrance should be applied to all areas of entry.


Yes, I believe that all those crossing the border should be treated the same under the laws of the country. The laws here though allow for these people to claim asylum and have adjudication under the laws of the country.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

painterswife said:


> You do realize that once they have crossed the border and have been released they are here legally though without some rights to work etc. So in reality they are no longer illegal and have the same rights as any visitor or to the US to travel the country and be treated equally under the laws of this country.


No, they’re still 💯 % illegals and should be deported.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

If they crossed the border illegally...they are here illegally. Just because the current administration refuses to enforce border security and immigration law, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Yes, I believe that all those crossing the border should be treated the same under the laws of the country. The laws here though allow for these people to claim asylum and have adjudication under the laws of the country.


There are very few that are accepted for asylum, mainly it's only the unaccompanied children. Approximately 2/3 of those illegals are not crossing at ports of entry and are never apprehended.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

kinderfeld said:


> If they crossed the border illegally...they are here illegally. Just because the current administration refuses to enforce border security and immigration law, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.


Our government has failed us.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> There are very few that are accepted for asylum, mainly it's only the unaccompanied children. Approximately 2/3 of those illegals are not crossing at ports of entry and are never apprehended.


Yes, but you have been discussing those apprehended and released with regards to covid.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

doc- said:


> If you had been paying more attention the answers to your questions would have been obvious--
> 
> More harm than good-- course of epidemic not altered at all by restrictions imposed, but suicides, rates of depression & domestic violence m business markedly higher; business clsings enormously higher; GDP fell by 6% thanks to lock downs, and now we have 5% inflation thanks to silly Dem spending programs supposedlu meant to counteract the fall in GDP.
> 
> ...


He needs a glass belly button so he doesn't bump into things.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

painterswife said:


> Yes, I believe that all those crossing the border should be treated the same under the laws of the country. The laws here though allow for these people to claim asylum and have adjudication under the laws of the country.


You just said that Illegal aliens are illegal until they cross the border, then they aren't illegal.
But they wouldn't be illegal until they crossed our border, which in your words then gives them our rights and makes them "legal".
That is laugh out loud.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I must have missed that.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

If they are legal when they cross they why do they get sent back when they are caught by the right person?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> You just said that Illegal aliens are illegal until they cross the border, then they aren't illegal.
> But they wouldn't be illegal until they crossed our border, which in your words then gives them our rights and makes them "legal".
> That is laugh out loud.


How about I clarify for you.

If someone crosses the border illegally then requests asylum there are legal processes that take place because of the laws of this country. While the person requesting asylum is in those legal processes they are in reality here legally even though they crossed the border illegally.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Fewer words usually indicates an honest explanation.
I think my post was much more to the point but thanks for the effort.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

GTX63 said:


> You just said that* Illegal aliens are illegal until they cross the border, then they aren't illegal.*
> But they wouldn't be illegal until they crossed our border, which in your words then gives them our rights and makes them "legal".
> That is laugh out loud.


Doesn't make the sense God gave a mule.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

painterswife said:


> How about I clarify for you.
> 
> If someone crosses the border illegally then requests asylum there are legal processes that take place *because of the laws of this country.* While the person requesting asylum is in those legal processes they are in reality here legally even though they crossed the border illegally.


Yes. By both federal law and by international treaty.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Nevada said:


> They have more time to drink.


Good one! LOL!...We'll take that as sarcasm,,,and an admission that you were wrong onevery point.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

painterswife said:


> I don't understand why you feel the need to bring up illegal immigration on every thread about Covid and quite often pointed at me?
> I don't believe that any person crossing the border should be treated any differently with regards to covid. One rule for everyone. I also don't believe in illegal immigration.


Remember Ellis Island?-- main reason for its existence as an entry point for immigrants was for a physical exam, quarantine if carrying communicable disease and immediate exportation if carrying certain diseases.

In this regard, the point is that the infection rate of the Illegals is much higher than that of the base population affected.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

painterswife said:


> How about I clarify for you.
> 
> If someone crosses the border illegally then requests asylum there are legal processes that take place because of the laws of this country. While the person requesting asylum is in those legal processes they are in reality here legally even though they crossed the border illegally.


To further clarify, to avoid abuse, asylum seekers are supposed to register their asylum claim in the first country they arrive in.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It doesn't happen. The folks from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras are proof of that.

Data:








Profile of the Unauthorized Population - US


Learn about the estimated 11.4 million unauthorized immigrants living in the United States—where do they live? When did they arrive in the United States, and from which origin countries? What are their levels of education, top industries of employment, income, parental and marital status, health...




www.migrationpolicy.org


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

doc- said:


> Remember Ellis Island?-- main reason for its existence as an entry point for immigrants was for a physical exam, quarantine if carrying communicable disease and immediate exportation if carrying certain diseases.
> 
> In this regard, the point is that the infection rate of the Illegals is much higher than that of the base population affected.


Only 1 to 2 percent of those were detained.

There are actually laws on the books that can prevent entry for certain diseases and quarantine for others when people cross the border. The problem is that for decades it has not been enforced unless someone was visible ill. I assume this is due to the sheer volume of international travel and the cost that would be incurred.

Now they only require medical exams for certain visas and when actually applying for permanent residence status.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

wr said:


> It's quite a bit broader than US visitors and I believe the US is working on similar but that really doesn't answer my question. Does it?


It's a game he plays, and he's not very good at it either!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Millions of Americans refuse to be vaccinated. They are traveling the country as well. Spreading Covid. It makes no difference if the illegals are positive because Americans are doing just as much damage. Americans are crossing back and forth across that same border not vaccinated.


The vaccinated are also spreading it too! What is your solution? Not everyone can be vaccinated.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

"Unauthorized immigrants" that pass through the checkpoints are given an appointment months in the future to attend a hearing to determine their status. They don't do that either. The immigration services play with numbers and words to make it appear that they do.









Did 98.7 Percent of Non-Detained Asylum Seekers Really Attend All of Their Asylum Hearings?


Not as impressive as it sounds.




cis.org


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

doc- said:


> Remember Ellis Island?


Remember Ellis Island? I eat there all the time!





__





Ellis Island Hotel, Casino & Brewery | Las Vegas, NV


Ellis Island Hotel, Casino & Brewery is the place in Las Vegas for a great time that won't hurt your pockets. We have hot games, great beer and the best karaoke in Vegas.




www.ellisislandcasino.com


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

no really said:


> So have a million illegals coming over our borders and spreading out through out the country, some covid positive and basically not having any info on their medical, criminal status is acceptable? I'm more of the opinion a sovereign nation can protect itself from outside threats and these million illegals present threats on multiple levels. I don't think we should vaccinate them, just round them up and ship them back.


Or finish the wall so they can’t walk in in the first place!


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> The vaccinated are also spreading it too! What is your solution? Not everyone can be vaccinated.





JeffreyD said:


> The vaccinated are also spreading it too! What is your solution? Not everyone can be vaccinated.


You asked..

Everyone who can should be vaccinated and everyone should be wearing masks. That will help protect the children and vulnerable. It will also slow down hospitalizations enabling better care by the specialists for the seriously ill.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

painterswife said:


> Millions of Americans refuse to be vaccinated.
> It isn't required. Refuse would be the wrong word. Choosing not to would be correct.
> They are traveling the country as well.
> That is their right as legal law abiding citizens.
> ...


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

painterswife said:


> they are in reality here legally even though they crossed the border illegally


No, they are not here legally, they are supposed to apply for asylum before they get here. They are being released pending an asylum hearing, which fewer then ten percent ever show up for. They are criminals, when they cross, they are criminals while they are here, and they are criminals when they don't show up for the hearing. Border Patrol stopped testing because eighty percent were showing positive for aids or STD's. And if they test positive Immigration is required to begin a treatment program. To avoid this, they just stopped testing. They are released with a hearing date, because we simply don't have enough holding facilities to lock them up. At some point the criminals who are running our government plan to give them amnesty and citizenship. Then they will actually be here legally, and will be able to vote. Which was the goal all along.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> No, they are not here legally, they are supposed to apply for asylum before they get here. They are being released pending an asylum hearing, which fewer then ten percent ever show up for. They are criminals, when they cross, they are criminals while they are here, and they are criminals when they don't show up for the hearing. Border Patrol stopped testing because eighty percent were showing positive for aids or STD's. And if they test positive Immigration is required to begin a treatment program. To avoid this, they just stopped testing. They are released with a hearing date, because we simply don't have enough holding facilities to lock them up. At some point the criminals who are running our government plan to give them amnesty and citizenship. Then they will actually be here legally, and will be able to vote. Which was the goal all along.


The applicable law is that of refugees. It's not political at all. The law and treaty are straightforward.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

They are not refugees. 
They are law breaking illegal alien trespassers until they are determined otherwise.
Of course it helps if they show up for court to prove their case.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Nevada said:


> The applicable law id that of refugees. It's not political at all. The law and treaty are straightforward.


International law regarding refugees says that they are required to apply in the first country they come to after leaving their own country. Yet after walking all the way across Mexico without applying, they apply here.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

muleskinner2 said:


> International law regarding refugees says that they are required to apply in the first country they come to after leaving their own country. Yet after walking all the way across Mexico without applying, they apply here.


They aren't walking that far, just the last few steps.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Hiro said:


> They aren't walking that far, just the last few steps.


Correct, the Mexican government busses them across the country, so they don't become a drain on local resources.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

At least unvaccinated people get sick enough to know they are sick. Vaccinated people don't get sick enough to feel like staying home so they go around spreading covid.


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Ok i had covid twice. Not great times. But the doctor's that did or didnt treat me, would not test me, wanted me to drive to the next state for test or do more then tell me to stay home treat it like the flu, eat more and no such thing as lingering symptoms, has just enforced my feelings toward doctors. I must have 9 referrals now, all out of state. Kinda like ill scratch your back doc if you send me patients. Once A vaccine is fully approved And once I dont have to fight to be tested in my town then tell me all the information on that shot all the side effects and how long it lasts and what type of virus it protects from getting and spreading. O see little point in taking a drug the does not prevent the spread.
Dont even get me going on illegals. Martinsburg wv had 3 texas state vans unload migrants illegal or not dont matter since Texas has such high rate of infection right now.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Millions of Americans refuse to be vaccinated. They are traveling the country as well. Spreading Covid. It makes no difference if the illegals are positive because Americans are doing just as much damage. Americans are crossing back and forth across that same border not vaccinated.


So we don't blame the illegals for crossing illegally and spreading the covids?
Those dastardly Americans though, they should be rounded up and re-educated to save the world.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Yes, but you have been discussing those apprehended and released with regards to covid.


Makes one wonder why the government is deliberately spreading the virus


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

_"It makes no difference if the illegals are positive because Americans are doing just as much damage."_

Quote of the week. 
Pick your own category.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> You asked..
> 
> Everyone who can should be vaccinated and everyone should be wearing masks. That will help protect the children and vulnerable. It will also slow down hospitalizations enabling better care by the specialists for the seriously ill.


last I heard, children were the least vulnerable, why try to buffalo people into getting a shot by bringing a false narrative into it?
What ever happened to "My body my choice"?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> last I heard, children were the least vulnerable, why try to buffalo people into getting a shot by bringing a false narrative into it?
> What ever happened to "My body my choice"?


Children are not so safe with variant D.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Children are not so safe with variant D.


The latest chant


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Danaus29 said:


> At least unvaccinated people get sick enough to know they are sick. Vaccinated people don't get sick enough to feel like staying home so they go around spreading covid.


Damn those vaccinated people putting everyone at risk.


----------



## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Nevada said:


> They have more time to drink.


Because the Government PREVENTED them from doing something constructive.

Google "quotes Lenin control"

You will find this









Vladimir Lenin Quotes - BrainyQuote


Enjoy the best Vladimir Lenin Quotes at BrainyQuote. Quotations by Vladimir Lenin, Russian Leader, Born April 22, 1870. Share with your friends.




www.brainyquote.com





His beliefs scare the pants off me....


----------



## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

painterswife said:


> I personally believe, that if you require visitors to be vaccinated then you should also require all citizens to be vaccinated.



And illegal , sorry 'undocumented' immigrants?

If Fauci and the CDC said that painting your left big toenail green and putting brown shoe polish onyoour right shin, and smearing spicy brown mustard over your door would prevent Covid, would you do it?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Riverdale said:


> And illegal , sorry 'undocumented' immigrants?
> 
> If Fauci and the CDC said that painting your left big toenail green and putting brown shoe polish onyoour right shin, and smearing spicy brown mustard over your door would prevent Covid, would you do it?


I have not mentioned Fauci once. I also don't use one source when making decisions on what to do.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

No, you mentioned putting illegals thru some tortured logic on the same level as law abiding American citizens, ie your neighbor's dog take his dump in your yard every morning but that should be ok because you let your dog take a dump in the yard too.


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I am still mad at Fauci for telling the nation that wearing masks would INCREASE the spread of COVID.He was speaking on behalf of the government at the time. When the government starts out lying, who will believe them when they begin telling the truth?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It would have been wise for him to step aside or simply be replaced a long time ago. Even the most robust covid pro mask pro jabber has to know Fauci is a clown (at best).
Rotating out the PR people would have helped lesson opinions and trust based on personality.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I have not mentioned Fauci once. I also don't use one source when making decisions on what to do.


What sources would those be?


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Children are not so safe with variant D.


I don't know that that's true.
They've lied about the rest of it, why should we believe them now?
Do you still believe in my body my choice?


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Terri said:


> I am still mad at Fauci for telling the nation that wearing masks would INCREASE the spread of COVID.He was speaking on behalf of the government at the time. When the government starts out lying, who will believe them when they begin telling the truth?


Nobody with a brain


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> I don't know that that's true.
> They've lied about the rest of it, why should we believe them now?
> Do you still believe in my body my choice?


I have never wanted anyone to be forced to be vaccinated.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> Do you still believe in my body my choice?


It appears that the pandemic is headed in the direction of children, so it's not just your body being put at risk now.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nevada said:


> It appears that the pandemic is headed in the direction of children, so it's not just your body being put at risk now.


“My body my choice” has always included children.... what’s that got to do with it?


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> It appears that the pandemic is headed in the direction of children, so it's not just your body being put at risk now.


Hmmm, now where have I heard that before?


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Nevada said:


> They have more time to drink.


As a recovering alcoholic, I can tell you that someone who needs to drink will make time. A reason to drink, no reason to stay sober, maybe, but it has added no more hours to the day. 

I know that the amount of people that were home drunk, the on hand volume of alcohol lying around, and the amount of alcohol waste in the yard, have increased dramatically during the average service call, in the last year plus to flatten the curve time period.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> They have more time to drink.


The mental health impact of the pandemic have been huge and to simply brush it off as people having more time to drink is thoughtless and ill informed.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> How about I clarify for you.
> 
> If someone crosses the border illegally then requests asylum there are legal processes that take place because of the laws of this country. While the person requesting asylum is in those legal processes they are in reality here legally even though they crossed the border illegally.


What about those that just show up, not caught, and do not request asylum?


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> You asked..
> 
> Everyone who can should be vaccinated and everyone should be wearing masks. That will help protect the children and vulnerable. It will also slow down hospitalizations enabling better care by the specialists for the seriously ill.


Keep the vulnerable home, social distance, mask, what ever. The kids are mom and dads problem, let the parents deal with them at home if the parents are concerned. Leave everyone else alone. Problem solved. 

See how easy that is……


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

painterswife said:


> Children are not so safe with variant D.





Nevada said:


> It appears that the pandemic is headed in the direction of children, so it's not just your body being put at risk now.


 ??? Please provide data & source...I always like to learn new thngs.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Doc, which statement above are you requesting documentation for?


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> It appears that the pandemic is headed in the direction of children, so it's not just your body being put at risk now.


Suddenly Democrats are worried about children?? 🤣


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

doc- said:


> ??? Please provide data & source...I always like to learn new thngs.


*With the highly contagious Delta variant, Covid-19 cases and hospitalizations among children have been on the rise.*









School mask debate in Tennessee grows heated as local board requires masks in elementary schools


Heated arguments spilled into the parking lot Tuesday night after a school board in a suburban Tennessee county approved a temporary requirement for masks in elementary schools due to the Covid-19 pandemic.




www.cnn.com


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> during the average service call


Just curious, what kind of service calls do you make?


----------



## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

painterswife said:


> You do realize that once they have crossed the border and have been released they are here legally though without some rights to work etc. So in reality they are no longer illegal and have the same rights as any visitor or to the US to travel the country and be treated equally under the laws of this country.


Male bovine excrement


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> What ever happened to "My body my choice"?


The left only agrees with that if you are choosing to kill the unborn.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

kinderfeld said:


> The left only agrees with that if you are choosing to kill the unborn.


I think this should be a lesson for others who have weighed in on either debate. It's very inconsistent to suggest that anyone wants the legal right to control other's choices and demand the right to make their own.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> I think this should be a lesson for others who have weighed in on either debate. It's very inconsistent to suggest that anyone wants the legal right to control other's choices and demand the right to make their own.


I would suggest one situation does in fact have one other interested party that is unable to represent itself. 

One is a two party contract. Another is a three party contract with unequal ability to represent itself.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

wr said:


> control other's choices


Killing babies isn't a choice, it's murder. If you don't want to have a baby, then don't make one.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

muleskinner2 said:


> Killing babies isn't a choice, it's murder. If you don't want to have a baby, then don't make one.


I would think it would be quite easy for you to understand why someone would want to control your vaccination status then. 

According to those seem to know about these things, they too could save a life.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> I would suggest one situation does in fact have one other interested party that is unable to represent itself.
> 
> One is a two party contract. Another is a three party contract with unequal ability to represent itself.


I've been very honest about my body my choice straight across the board. I chose not to get an abortion when my kid's father tried to legally force me to, I chose not to have surgery on a shattered ankle and let Mother Nature do what she does best (even if she doesn't work as fast as a surgeon) and I delayed getting the vaccination until I have the opportunity to decide what vaccine is best for me. 

My reason for being vaccinated has a lot more to do with the amount of elderly people I come in contact with in a day and I'd really hate to have my choice cost them precious time with their family.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> I've been very honest about my body my choice straight across the board. I chose not to get an abortion when my kid's father tried to legally force me to, I chose not to have surgery on a shattered ankle and let Mother Nature do what she does best (even if she doesn't work as fast as a surgeon) and I delayed getting the vaccination until I have the opportunity to decide what vaccine is best for me.
> 
> My reason for being vaccinated has a lot more to do with the amount of elderly people I come in contact with in a day and I'd really hate to have my choice cost them precious time with their family.


I see you as a very honorable person.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Nevada said:


> *With the highly contagious Delta variant, Covid-19 cases and hospitalizations among children have been on the rise.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You gave us a CNN reference, which isn't necessarily bad in and of itself, but when they self- refer to their own articles Long Covid can be significant for kids, pediatricians say. Here's why other doctors say children should be protected - CNN for "verification" of data, it detracts from the credibility...

..but we'll let that pass and analyze the data as if we believe it--- They claim 45,000 kids have been hospitized for CoViD in the past year, but fail to mention that in that time 36,000,000 kids have been infected--That's a hopitalization rate of 0.15%-- and only 500 deaths makes a death rate of 0.0001% of cases. (Are we supposed to be in fear with a rate that high?)

They go on to claim that the hospitlalizations have increased by 21%!!! over recent weeks-- but with the old number being 150/d , the new number is only 40 more per day-- which averages out to be less than one extra case per state.

Your argument just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

doc- said:


> Your argument just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.


I don't believe any of them are meant to.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

-not to chanege the subject, but--


HDRider said:


> ... a three party contract with unequal ability to represent itself.


The _reductio ad absurdum_ argument-- if a fetus is a legal entity because it is a potential human being, then should a woman ever allow herself to menstruate without becoming pregnant?...Not to mention-- what about a male who has 100,000,000 potential humans in every ejaculation?

Better stick with the religious argument...The science doesn't hold up....And religion has no place in the govt.



muleskinner2 said:


> Killing babies isn't a choice, it's murder. If you don't want to have a baby, then don't make one.


What a great world this would be if everyone had your self control and strength of character!


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doc- said:


> if a fetus is a legal entity


What is defined as a legal entity is subject to reinterpretation . What life is is not.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

HDRider said:


> What is defined as a legal entity is subject to reinterpretation . What life is is not.


Is a virus alive? What about a prion? Even "life" has to be defined operationally. There is no absolute definition.

The govt has defined "human life " as starting at 16 wks (depending on the jursidiction/ state abortion laws) yet doesn't demand or allow a SS number to be assigned until after birth.... differentiial Operational Definitons...not absolute...Either way, it's completely arbitrary-- ie- no "scientific" rreason for it-- just convenience...


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doc- said:


> Is a virus alive? What about a prion? Even "life" has to be defined operationally. There is no absolute definition.
> 
> The govt has defined "human life " as starting at 16 wks (depending on the jursidiction/ state abortion laws) yet doesn't demand or allow a SS number to be assigned until after birth.... differentiial Operational Definitons...not absolute...Either way, it's completely arbitrary-- ie- no "scientific" rreason for it-- just convenience...


I hate to repeat myself, but that is subject to reinterpretation, and I doubt the assignment of a SS# is the end all in the overall scheme of things. 

When a mother says she has a life growing in her I think she is right. The law giving the mother the right to end that life does not change the fact it is a life.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

doc- said:


> What a great world this would be if everyone had your self control and strength of character!


Really it's just that I am lazy, by the time I was ten years old I had changed all of the diapers I ever wanted to.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

wr said:


> I've been very honest about my body my choice straight across the board. I chose not to get an abortion when my kid's father tried to legally force me to, I chose not to have surgery on a shattered ankle and let Mother Nature do what she does best (even if she doesn't work as fast as a surgeon) and I delayed getting the vaccination until I have the opportunity to decide what vaccine is best for me.
> 
> My reason for being vaccinated has a lot more to do with the amount of elderly people I come in contact with in a day and I'd really hate to have my choice cost them precious time with their family.


But you can still get and spread the virus right?


----------



## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> Suddenly Democrats are worried about children?? 🤣


Ah, yes. No, they're clearly not. Here's one of my stories raising 2 boys:
As a young mother and our children having entered the public school system at age 5 (so this would have been the early 90's), I have an unshakable memory of a certain president's wife's public statement that haunted me at the time...that statement has taken shape and is being pushed hard again as public (government) "pre-school" -- not an exact quote from way back then, but to the effect that, 'the government needs to provide child care so women can go back to work'. I considered her evil in that regard from that moment on.

I wanted to spend more time with our children but I was getting less time at the time during the school year. I worked hard at making do with just DH's income (the boys' Sunday britches always came from the thrift shop, as well as most of my tops and I sewed my own dresses, etc.), and I chose never to work more than part-time before they entered school. At one part-time job, the Saturday hours got to be where I was rarely getting a Saturday off and I quit because I was missing out on time with our children and they were middle school age then, time was flying by (DH worked 24/7 swing shift).
Some of us don't want other people to (essentially) raise our children, which is what happens when they spend more time with others than they do their own family. 
Now I'm a grandmother of that age whose youngest son and wife put their first two into a public "pre-school" at age 3, 1 to go. So, by age 3 we were cut off from our grandsons during the "school" year (as he moved 2 1/2 hours north) and they do their own family outings on the weekends. He would give us the government/public school's "schedule", so we would know when they would be "off" on a Monday or Friday. (He works mostly from home and clearly is involved in more than half their care...he's exhausted most of the time.) 
Anyway, this part of the government's plan has worked out well for them (goverment) as we've seen it play out in a lot of families...and it was never about "caring" for the children, it has been about control during their earliest impressionable years. 

In contrast, when our boys were in middle school and junior high school, DH had to take vacation during the winter and he got the idea that we should all go to Vermont and take downhill skiing lessons and visit New England for the first time. When I first went to the schools and gave notice and asked for their lessons they lost their collective minds and told me our children were not permitted to be absent from school, so I turned to demanding...and I have no doubt they learned more in 2 weeks in Vermont and New Hampshire, the drive getting there, and learning to ski (leaving us in their flakes) than what their classmates learned in that government/public school. I wasn't aware at the time that many of the teachers, etc. were of a particular politically minded persuasion, but fortunately not the admin that made the final call. 

I can clearly see that it is so much more difficult today to retain any control over decisions that affect your own children and concerns me as to what will they come up with next. What I also know is that what is "voluntary" often because "mandatory" when a government is involved, and that the government does want our children for a reason(s). Unfortunately, so many young parents won't figure this out (or have themselves been programmed to accept it) before they no longer have time to correct it. 
This is just one intervention with the government/public school system I engaged in for what we considered was for the well-being of our sons, but when they saw me coming they probably knew they wouldn't prevail. 

I won't entertain "rules" "policies" etc. excuses. We had no choice where our property tax money could be used for our children's education. 
They had no interest in our oldest child's welfare when another boy intentionally hit him in the mouth and broke off a permanent front tooth, or when I was told at the beginning of 3rd grade that he couldn't read and would surely fail almost every class, but he was evaluated (unbeknownst to us before the parent teacher conference) and considered borderline, so no reading class. Fortunately, we figured out that he had been memorizing words up to that point and the 3rd grade teacher sent me home with a box full of reading cards, etc. and within weeks he was reading without issue. The government/public school's "rules" "policies" did not protect our non-aggressive and bullied son from harm and did not do a thing to the other kid, let alone pay for our dental bills. (Ok, so that's makes 3 things, but there were more!)
That all said, I'm rooting for the revolution against the government/public school systems.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mamagoose said:


> I'm rooting for the revolution against the government/public school systems.


Many of us are.

God bless you. That was an inspiring post. 

I think both parents working to pursue material goods has been one of the most destructive forces in America. Many ills emanate from that one change in culture.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> But you can still get and spread the virus right?


This is true but I have no interest in debating the merit of the vaccine. My only point was that you can't have it both ways. If you want the right to dictate the medical decisions for others, you pretty well have to accept the idea that you may receive the same treatment. 

I deeply resent someone making medical decisions for me and out of respect for others, refuse to influence medical decisions for others.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

wr said:


> According to those seem to know about these things, they too could save a life.


So could making everyone stay in their homes only to come to the curb when the government drops off their food rations. So could suspending everyone's drivers license. 


doc- said:


> The _reductio ad absurdum_ argument-- if a fetus is a legal entity because it is a potential human being, then should a woman ever allow herself to menstruate without becoming pregnant?...Not to mention-- what about a male who has 100,000,000 potential humans in every ejaculation?


I would put forward that a fetus isn't a potential human being, but, fully a human being. The egg and sperm are parts of their respective persons unless and until they meet and create an entirely new and unique human being.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

doc- said:


> Is a virus alive? What about a prion?


No to both.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Apparently only that of the person getting the vax.


wr said:


> I would think it would be quite easy for you to understand why someone would want to control your vaccination status then.
> 
> According to those seem to know about these things, they too could save a life.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

You all need to be careful with this baby stuff. You all cause the government to figure out that they are missing out on 9 months of potential taxation and revenue and its going to be a mess.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Farmerga said:


> No to both.


Can you defend your POV?

There is no universal definition of "livng." This is another example of needing an operant definiton suiting he situation. By some definitons, those are not life forms. By others, they are.

Check out the inorganic chemistry reaction of a self replicating,, self sustaining chemical system
The Belousov Zhabotinsky reaction 8 x normal speed (no music) - Bing video By some defniton, it's "alive".

BTW- the waves you see in the video follow the exact same math as the waves in an epidemic.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

The US Supreme Court has refused to hear a challenge to a vaccine mandate for students and employees at Indiana University. The decision was made by Amy Coney Barrett, a Trump appointee, and was not considered by the entire court. The university was not asked for a response. This sends a strong message that vaccine mandates will be upheld in the future.

*Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett on Thursday refused to block a plan by Indiana University to require students and employees to get vaccinated against COVID-19. *









Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett refuses to block Indiana University vaccine mandate


Barrett's action marked the first time the Supreme Court has weighed in on a vaccine mandate.




www.cbsnews.com


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

And the division continues, enemies are being identified and retribution is being enacted.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

no really said:


> And the division continues, enemies are being identified and retribution is being enacted.


Notice how some people, and it seems to be the same people over and over, line up to create the divide


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> The US Supreme Court has refused to hear a challenge to a vaccine mandate for students and employees at Indiana University. The decision was made by Amy Coney Barrett, a Trump appointee, and was not considered by the entire court. The university was not asked for a response. This sends a strong message that vaccine mandates will be upheld in the future.
> 
> *Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett on Thursday refused to block a plan by Indiana University to require students and employees to get vaccinated against COVID-19. *
> 
> ...


Do you believe that forced vaccinations actually furthers the cause?

I believe it just causes the undecided more fear and upset.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

wr said:


> Do you believe that forced vaccinations actually furthers the cause?
> 
> I believe it just causes the undecided more fear and upset.


I don't know. My nextdoor neighbors finally got their first Pfizer shots Thursday. The past 6 months they've sworn that they will never get the vaccine. The mother is 80 and the daughter is 60. I think they'll be better off, and the rest of us will also benefit.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nevada said:


> I don't know. My nextdoor neighbors finally got their first Pfizer shots Thursday. The past 6 months they've sworn that they will never get the vaccine. The mother is 80 and the daughter is 60. I think they'll be better off, and the rest of us will also benefit.


How will this benefit anyone?


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I don't know. My nextdoor neighbors finally got their first Pfizer shots Thursday. The past 6 months they've sworn that they will never get the vaccine. The mother is 80 and the daughter is 60. I think they'll be better off, and the rest of us will also benefit.


See the thing is what you think is immaterial, it's what they think is that matters.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> How will this benefit anyone?


The more Americans get vaccinated, the closer we get to herd immunity.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nevada said:


> The more Americans get vaccinated, the closer we get to herd immunity.


So some would have us believe. Not sure I’m buying.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> See the thing is what you think is immaterial, it's what they think is that matters.


I've been meaning to ask, do you live close to Big Spring, TX? I was there on business a long time ago, probably before you were born. Anyway, the beginning of the film Midnight Cowboy was shot in Big Spring and the locals liked talking about it. I'm curious if Midnight Cowboy is still something they talk about around that area..

I'm not trying to create thread drift. I tried sending you a PM but I can't access your profile page.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I've been meaning to ask, do you live close to Big Spring, TX? I was there on business a long time ago, probably before you were born. Anyway, the beginning of the film Midnight Cowboy was shot in Big Spring and the locals liked talking about it. I'm curious if Midnight Cowboy is still something they talk about around that area..
> 
> I'm not trying to create thread drift. I tried sending you a PM but I can't access your profile page.


Around 200 miles to Big Spring. One of my property borders is the Rio Grande. Heard a few people from our area talk about it.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

My sister lived in Big Spring for about 15 years. I always enjoyed visiting out that way but it was a 9 hour trip.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> My sister lived in Big Spring for about 15 years. I always enjoyed visiting out that way but it was a 9 hour trip.


It's changed a lot since I was a kid, kinda a little rough around the edges now.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Around 200 miles to Big Spring. One of my property borders is the Rio Grande. Heard a few people from our area talk about it.


Oh, OK. I thought you were closer to Midland/Odessa.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Oh, OK. I thought you were closer to Midland/Odessa.


For us out here that is close, do a lot of my shopping in Midland/Odessa.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Nevada said:


> The more Americans get vaccinated, the closer we get to herd immunity.


Herd immunity will happen eventually. The virus is now everywhere. People who are not vaccinated will get it until they are also immune.

I am pretty sure that it will end up like the flu: every now and then it will mutate and make people sick until it has run its course. And, like the flu, I think that the people will have to guess at which variant of COVID will be hitting the population in the coming year, and release a vaccine that will deal with what they EXPECT will affect people in the coming year


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> The more Americans get vaccinated, the closer we get to herd immunity.


Where are you getting this information? It’s pretty well established that the vaccines do not stop getting covid or transmitting it. Just provides a person a milder reaction to it.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

no really said:


> For us out here that is close, do a lot of my shopping in Midland/Odessa.


Seems many people do not realize the driving distances that are normal in parts of Texas. In high school driving 50 miles to pick up a date and then drive 50 miles back to town for a movie was no big deal. Used to drive about 70 miles round trip into Post Texas to eat lunch. 120 miles one way into Lubbock Texas to shop at the nicer stores.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Redlands Okie said:


> Seems many people do not realize the driving distances that are normal in parts of Texas. In high school driving 50 miles to pick up a date and then drive 50 miles back to town for a movie was no big deal. Used to drive about 70 miles round trip into Post Texas to eat lunch. 120 miles one way into Lubbock Texas to shop at the nicer stores.


Yeah, it's hard for people to understand not everything is close, heck the little town closest, where I went to school has never had a fast food place. From there it's over 60 miles to the nearest fast food.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Redlands Okie said:


> Where are you getting this information? It’s pretty well established that the vaccines do not stop getting covid or transmitting it. Just provides a person a milder reaction to it.


According to many, many reliable sources it also reduces the likelihood of catching COVID. At any rate herd immunity will occur, whether it is by injection or by getting sick. 

Because COVID mutates so quickly I suspect that we will have COVID with us always, like the flu


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

no really said:


> It's changed a lot since I was a kid, kinda a little rough around the edges now.


I had heard that. My sisters MIL used to live there and just recently moved to Madisonville just last month. Because of that.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

no really said:


> Yeah, it's hard for people to understand not everything is close, heck the little town closest, where I went to school has never had a fast food place. From there it's over 60 miles to the nearest fast food.


60 miles to fast food makes it slow food.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> The more Americans get vaccinated, the closer we get to herd immunity.


You seem to strongly support forced vaccinations.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

I don't think forced vaccination by governments is the way to go, although I don't question their authority to do so. Recently we've seen encouraging signs that more people are getting vaccinated. There is also increased pressure from restaurants, colleges, and other places of business by requiring vaccinations. As I pointed out, US citizens visiting Canada requires vaccination. Even my nextdoor neighbors have gotten their first shot.

I was surprised to see in the news that Governor DeSantis got pushback by several Florida counties and appears to be walking back his ban on vaccine requirements.

Evidently concern over the delta variant is now stronger than concern over vaccine safety.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> I don't think forced vaccination by governments is the way to go, although I don't question their authority to do so. Recently we've seen encouraging signs that more people are getting vaccinated. There is also increased pressure from restaurants, colleges, and other places of business by requiring vaccinations. As I pointed out, US citizens visiting Canada requires vaccination. Even my nextdoor neighbors have gotten their first shot.
> 
> I was surprised to see in the news that Governor DeSantis got pushback by several Florida counties and appears to be walking back his ban on vaccine requirements.
> 
> Evidently concern over the delta variant is now stronger than concern over vaccine safety.


There's more concern about those that got vaccinated being super spreaders than there is about wondering if one should get the vaccination at all.
Those that got vaccinated and are terrified should stay home, not go to the store or do anything fun in public. They also should be held liable for the medical costs associated with their spreading the virus to others. See how that works?
Just curious, why are you so terrified to answer questions about the comments you make?
Don't you stand by what you post?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> There's more concern about those that got vaccinated being super spreaders than there is about wondering if one should get the vaccination at all.


I haven't heard that. Reference?


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> I haven't heard that. Reference?


Answer questions first....


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Nevada said:


> I don't think forced vaccination by governments is the way to go, although* I don't question their authority* to do so.


We know.
You must submit to their medical authoritarianism!




Nevada said:


> As I pointed out, US citizens visiting Canada requires vaccination.


Why don't we have the same concern at our southern border?
Hmmm....



Nevada said:


> Evidently concern over the delta variant is now stronger than concern over vaccine safety.


Not really. Southern border?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Answer questions first....


Why are you so terrified to answer questions about the comments you make? Don't you stand by what you post?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> I don't think forced vaccination by governments is the way to go, although I don't question their authority to do so. Recently we've seen encouraging signs that more people are getting vaccinated. There is also increased pressure from restaurants, colleges, and other places of business by requiring vaccinations. As I pointed out, US citizens visiting Canada requires vaccination. Even my nextdoor neighbors have gotten their first shot.
> 
> I was surprised to see in the news that Governor DeSantis got pushback by several Florida counties and appears to be walking back his ban on vaccine requirements.
> 
> Evidently concern over the delta variant is now stronger than concern over vaccine safety.


I don't have a problem with any country requiring travel vaccinations of any kind. The way I see it, if I want to visit the US or any other country, I'm a guest and subject to the laws and any rules they have set out for visitors but that's not actually the same. 

As always, you didn't bother actually answering my question so I'll have to assume the answer is yes.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Why are you so terrified to answer questions about the comments you make? Don't you stand by what you post?


You almost never answer my questions. Does that mean you don't stand by what you post?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

kinderfeld said:


> We know.
> You must submit to their medical authoritarianism!


When it comes to public safety governments have broad powers. That's been demonstrated time and time again, and courts have backed them up.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> When it comes to public safety governments have broad powers. That's been demonstrated time and time again, and courts have backed them up.


Can you speak to long term side effects of the vaccines and more specifically in children?


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Why are you so terrified to answer questions about the comments you make? Don't you stand by what you post?


Sure i do. So ill be your huckleberry. 
Being vaccinated doesn't prevent you from getting or transmitting vovid....thsts a fact and you know this to be true.
That said, it stands to reason that these vaccinated folks are transmitting covid to unvaccinated because they seem to think that since they got vaccinated, they cannot transmit covid and wont get covid. That's not true though. The cases of vaccinated getting covid is skyrocketing. Since that is happening, the vaccinated are spreading this virus and shoukd be held accountable for their actions.
Not terrified at all.
Your turn....


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> When it comes to public safety governments have broad powers. That's been demonstrated time and time again, and courts have backed them up.


Doesn't mean their correct. Just that they want you to comply, and will do anything to force you too, even if that means lying. Do you believe that government would never lie? Remember, it's illegal for YOU to lie to the government, but not illegal for the government to lie to you!


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Nevada said:


> When it comes to public safety governments have broad powers. That's been demonstrated time and time again, and courts have backed them up.


Theoretically, here in the US, the govt does not HAVE any authority. We the People allow them authority by our consent.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

People who have a light case of COVID might not know that they have it at all. That holds true if you have or have not been vaccinated, so yea a person who has been vaccinated can spread it. 

I believe that I will not stand too close to other people when I am in line. Such is life


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Terri said:


> People who have a light case of COVID might not know that they have it at all. That holds true if you have or have not been vaccinated, so yea a person who has been vaccinated can spread it.
> 
> I believe that I will not stand too close to other people when I am in line. Such is life





Terri said:


> People who have a light case of COVID might not know that they have it at all. That holds true if you have or have not been vaccinated, so yea a person who has been vaccinated can spread it.
> 
> I believe that I will not stand too close to other people when I am in line. Such is life


Case fatality rate for CoViD over last several months since Delta variant has become the dominant type is 0.1%--Same as influenza case fatalithy rate...Are you afraid of the flu?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> When it comes to public safety governments have broad powers. That's been demonstrated time and time again, and courts have backed them up.


The courts backed up slavery too. Does that make them right?


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

doc- said:


> Case fatality rate for CoViD over last several months since Delta variant has become the dominant type is 0.1%--Same as influenza case fatalithy rate...Are you afraid of the flu?


Yes, because my immune system has been deliberately suppressed. I have MS.

I believe that most people with the flu know that they have it. I have heard that is not true for COVID, and so people with COVID may be walking around and shaking hands and standing close to other people


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

doc- said:


> Case fatality rate for CoViD over last several months since Delta variant has become the dominant type is 0.1%--Same as influenza case fatalithy rate...Are you afraid of the flu?


That fatality rate is lower because of vaccinations. So yes those not vaccinated or with suppressed immune should be scared.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> That fatality rate is lower because of vaccinations. So yes those not vaccinated or with suppressed immune should be scared.


They should certainly be cautious and mindful of their surroundings but fear does nothing but erode mental health.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> They should certainly be cautious and mindful of their surroundings but fear does nothing but erode mental health.


I disagree. Fear is healthy. It is how humans have survived and thrived. Obsessive fear is something else and what leads to mental health problems.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I disagree. Fear is healthy. It is how humans have survived and thrived. *Obsessive fear is something else and what leads to mental health problems.*


Such as TDS!


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

doc- said:


> Theoretically, here in the US, the govt does not HAVE any authority. We the People allow them authority by our consent.


I sure as hell didn't consent to what's going on.
And the multiple standards are just absurd. They want proof of vaccines for air travel, yet they bus in illegals all over the country from our wide open southern border. They want lock downs and everyone to mask up, yet throw massive, maskless birthday parties. Defund the police, while they increase their own private security. To hell with all of them.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

painterswife said:


> I disagree. Fear is healthy. It is how humans have survived and thrived. Obsessive fear is something else and what leads to mental health problems.


I think awareness is a better descriptor than fear. But, you go with what works for you.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Nevada said:


> When it comes to public safety governments have broad powers. That's been demonstrated time and time again, and courts have backed them up.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

painterswife said:


> That fatality rate is lower because of vaccinations. So yes those not vaccinated or with suppressed immune should be scared.


Absolutely false...Over 75% of cases are now Delta--and almost all cases are among the unvaccinated, yet the deaths per case is down to 0.1%--the deaths per population has become miniscule.

In regards spreading flu-- people shed the virus for up to 10 days before getting symptoms themselves--Not a big difference between the assymptomatics sreading flu vs CoV.

The "immuosuppressed" are really the "relatively immunosuppressed." Your immune systems still work pretty well- just not qute as good as normal. You have to really torture the number to get them to admit to a difference in infection rates or outcomes....The truly immunosuppressed are the Bubble Boys of the world--prety rare.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

painterswife said:


> That fatality rate is lower because of vaccinations.



Please provide medical evidence to prove this to be more than personal conjecture.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

doc- said:


> Absolutely false...Over 75% of cases are now Delta--and almost all cases are among the unvaccinated, yet the deaths per case is down to 0.1%--the deaths per population has become miniscule.
> 
> In regards spreading flu-- people shed the virus for up to 10 days before getting symptoms themselves--Not a big difference between the assymptomatics sreading flu vs CoV.
> 
> The "immuosuppressed" are really the "relatively immunosuppressed." Your immune systems still work pretty well- just not qute as good as normal. You have to really torture the number to get them to admit to a difference in infection rates or outcomes....The truly immunosuppressed are the Bubble Boys of the world--prety rare.





Tom Horn said:


> Please provide medical evidence to prove this to be more than personal conjecture.



 If you don't believe the death rate from Covid has been lowered because people have been vaccinated then who am I to try to make you think anything different.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

painterswife said:


> If you don't believe the death rate from Covid has been lowered because people have been vaccinated then who am I to try to make you think anything different.



Your credibility in just about every conversation you have ever weighed in on is in serious doubt.

How about quoting and referencing a reputable source besides your personal opinion for starters?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tom Horn said:


> Your credibility in just about every conversation you have ever weighed in on is in serious doubt.
> 
> How about quoting and referencing a reputable source besides your personal opinion for starters?


Why bother? You seem to need me to provide proof that Covid vaccinations are reducing deaths. You doubt my credibility. So what. If you don't believe that corvid vaccinations are reducing deaths then I don't feel the need to change your mind.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

painterswife said:


> Why bother? You seem to need me to provide proof that Covid vaccinations are reducing deaths. You doubt my credibility. So what. If you don't believe that corvid vaccinations are reducing deaths then I don't feel the need to change your mind.


You feel no need to justify your position because you incessantly move the goalposts and have no logical position.

Having an adult conversation with you is like trying to nail Jell-O to a tree.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tom Horn said:


> You feel no need to justify your position because you incessantly move the goalposts and have no logical position.
> 
> Having an adult conversation with you is like trying to nail Jell-O to a tree.


  You wound me. I am so upset. Someone who needs proof that covid vaccinations reduced deaths from a person that they don't find credible does not seem logical to me.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

painterswife said:


> You wound me. I am so upset. Someone who needs proof that covid vaccinations reduced deaths from a person that they don't find credible does not seem logical to me.



You definitely are not credible, however, if you were to produce and reference some genuine, scientific, non-biased evidence, you might succeed in generating a shift in my opinion about the effectiveness of the Covid vaccine.

Unless of course all you wish to accomplish is stirring the pot.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I just found this article about breakthrough case reporting. Note that breakthrough information is very difficult to find since the CDC stopped tracking the data. Many states do not report breakthrough cases at all. 









COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Cases: Data from the States


We reviewed the websites and other official state sources for all 50 states and D.C. to see which are providing data on COVID-19 breakthrough cases, hospitalizations and deaths, how regularly, and …




www.kff.org


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tom Horn said:


> You definitely are not credible, however, if you were to produce and reference some genuine, scientific, non-biased evidence, you might succeed in generating a shift in my opinion about the effectiveness of the Covid vaccine.
> 
> Unless of course all you wish to accomplish is stirring the pot.


If you need proof from me that the covid vaccine is reducing deaths then you are the one with the problem.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Maybe he is.
So back to his point, what have you got?


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

painterswife said:


> If you need proof from me that the covid vaccine is reducing deaths then you are the one with the problem.



If all the hot air that you produce could be harnessed, Alaska and Canada could be heated for free in the winter.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

She'll be googling for a while so you should finish watching that paint dry until she gets back to you.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I am not googling anything. If someone already does not believe that the covid vaccine reduces death then providing links that prove it is a waste of my time. I will just sit here and watch how ridiculous they are just even asking for proof of that.

One of the posters even stated it himself. Only 25 percent of current covid hospitalizations are for those vaccinated. How they could not get from there to fewer deaths when vaccinated is unexplainable to me.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It isn't a matter of belief. I think they were referring to your credibility.
Maybe you could just quote the HT poster then rather than waste members' time waiting for your googling of an article you may or may not have previously read.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> It isn't a matter of belief. I think they were referring to your credibility.
> Maybe you could just quote the HT poster then rather than waste members' time waiting for your googling of an article you may or may not have previously read.


I quoted it earlier. Maybe they should just google. I don't believe it is my job to google up links that show that the covid vaccines reduce covid deaths. If they don't already know that then why would they believe anything I provide. I believe asking for me to provide that info is pure gameplay.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It was you that made the statement, so in this case, yep it would be your job.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> It was you that made the statement, so in this case, yep it would be your job.


I stand by that statement. I reject that I need to provide links. It would like me having to prove we breathe air. You either know it by now or there is no hope for you.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

painterswife said:


> I stand by that statement. I reject that I need to provide links. It would like me having to prove we breathe air. You either know it by now or there is no hope for you.


And yet you habitually post links with no comment, almost like a sort of, I don't know, gameplay.
Interesting.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> And yet you habitually post links with no comment, almost like a sort of, I don't know, gameplay.
> Interesting.


Now it is gameplay if I post a link and gameplay if I don't. See I can't win so I choose to no longer bother to play by your rules. How is that working out for you?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

painterswife said:


> Now it is gameplay if I post a link and gameplay if I don't. See I can't win so I choose to no longer bother to play by your rules. How is that working out for you?


Honesty in your posts is a great start for you. Repetition will make it a habit.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> Honesty in your posts is a great start for you. Repetition will make it a habit.


Your rules. Who cares?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

painterswife said:


> Your rules. Who cares?


Unlike "settled science" honesty is static and doesn't belong to me.
Maybe you should start a thread with a poll on whether folks care if you are honest or not?


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