# Alternative Transportation Fuel



## JAK (Oct 15, 2005)

Looking at the pros and con of some alternatives:
1. Electricity, Compressed Air, or Hydrogen from Wind Power
2. Biodiesel from Canola etc.
3. Ethanol from Corn or Potatoes etc.
4. Horse and Cart

With all it's disadvantages, the old horse and cart idea is starting to make more and more sense to me in the right situations, like the weekly excursion to the town market, church on Sunday, or just going for a family drive and picnic.
1. Efficiency of low horsepower combined with high pulling power.
2. Direct conversion of variety of plant material into biofuels.
3. Biproduct of manure and bedding material as compost.
4. Lower capital and insurance costs.
5. Lifestyle aesthetics.

Is the old horse and cart due for a comeback?

Found this site:
http://www.horsekeeping.com/horse_management/cost_of_keeping_a_horse.htm

Horsekeeping Costs Per Horse 

FEED
Hay (20 lb./day x 365 days = 7300 lb. or 3.65 tons x $120 per ton = $438.00 
Grain (4 lb./day x 365 days = 1460 # x .20/lb.) = 292.00 

BEDDING
Bedding (1 bag/wk. X $5/bag) = $260.00 

VETERINARY SUPPLIES AND CARE
Immunizations = $60.00 
Deworming 6 times per year x $10 = $60.00 
Dental and Misc. Vet Maintenance = $100.00
Farm call charges = $75.00 

FARRIER 
Shoeing 6 times at $80 = $480.00 
Trimming 3 times at $25 = $75.00 

TOTAL $1840.00


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## Janon (Aug 25, 2002)

What exactly is lifestyle aesthetics? Is the horse and buggy a big chick magnet where you are? 



> Lifestyle aesthetics


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## JAK (Oct 15, 2005)

You betcha.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

It would be here too....... but my wife sez I don't need magnetised chicks. Hay and vet costs look a bit low, but not bad. No upkeep cost on the buggy and harness? Horses take a lot of work, and they are not great winter transport. Solar charged electric would suit me i think.


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## JAK (Oct 15, 2005)

I agree that for just getting around a bicycle or light electric vehicle should do the job. For hauling some weight up the odd hill it would be nice to have something with a little extra umph now and then but still efficient at low power. Perhaps solar-electric-compressed air, perhaps with a wind turbine for recharging also. For winter travel there is something to be said for having an engine to keep you warm, or a sled dog. On a river sail and electric would be a nice combination.


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## offGridNorthern (Jan 1, 2006)

Janon said:


> What exactly is lifestyle aesthetics? Is the horse and buggy a big chick magnet where you are?


Janon -- there are some areas in southern Ontario where a H&B WOULD be a chicken magnet, are there not? I'm thinking of the Kitchener area (which is southern in comparison to Northern Ontario)


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## Janon (Aug 25, 2002)

Yes, Kitchener, St. Jacobs... lots of Mennonites in those areas who still use a horse and buggy. 

Just out of curiosity, where are you close to in Northern Ontario? 

cheers,



offGridNorthern said:


> Janon -- there are some areas in southern Ontario where a H&B WOULD be a chicken magnet, are there not? I'm thinking of the Kitchener area (which is southern in comparison to Northern Ontario)


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## speedfunk (Dec 7, 2005)

The compressed air seems like a neat direction...I just heard of it recently. It seems to have a lot of pro's vs. what i've been considering building SOMEDAY ...a small EV

No battery's ( the road block for ev's). I'm not sure of the effeciencys of compressed air but is would seem that it be much better then a battery ( speculation) The weight versus a battery would be better. The Tank being the only weight. 

I have not found much on compressed air though. I found a link the other day on msn to a bike that was made using an experimental air engine. Any links that people have would be great for everyone I think. 


whoops also forgot a Biggie... NO EMMISIONS besides ....... (gasp AIR )


Con: NOt a chick magnet....  unless maybe using the compressed air to power other devices ...wink wink...


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## gccrook (Nov 21, 2003)

http://www.cyber-media.com/aircar/


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## speedfunk (Dec 7, 2005)

Thanks!! 

Great link.


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## JAK (Oct 15, 2005)

Janon said:


> Yes, Kitchener, St. Jacobs... lots of Mennonites in those areas who still use a horse and buggy.


I've heard they are always on the lookout for a young guy wearing in a new pair of genes.

p.s. I hope this doesn't offend anyone. I understand Mennonites to be pretty down to earth in matters of animal husbandry, and so perhaps husband husbandry also.


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## JAK (Oct 15, 2005)

speedfunk said:


> The compressed air seems like a neat direction...I just heard of it recently. It seems to have a lot of pro's vs. what i've been considering building SOMEDAY ...a small EV
> 
> No battery's ( the road block for ev's). I'm not sure of the effeciencys of compressed air but is would seem that it be much better then a battery ( speculation) The weight versus a battery would be better. The Tank being the only weight.


There are some tradeoffs. There are efficiency issues because air heats up alot as you compress it. If you recharge at home you could recover the heat to heat your home and hot water. On discharge it is actually a benefit if you provide some heat as you go, but if you discharge slow enough this can come from the environment. Also some of this heat can come from regenerative braking. The weight and volume advantage over batteries depends on pressure, and efficiency goes down as pressure goes up. One big advantage of compressed air is that it lends itself better to faster rates of discharge. 

Electric-CompressedAir or Solar-Electric-CompressedAir hybrids are a good concept because the electric motor in the vehicle can be used for recharging when you are plug in, or on solar power; and the electric motor can also provide some smoother motive power from solar power or batteries while driving in tight spots, like parking; whereas the compressed air engine can provide the high power for acceleration, especially high speed acceleration; as well as efficient regenerative braking.


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## JAK (Oct 15, 2005)

More specs and neat photos:
http://www.zevcat.com/commercial.html

On board compressor is 5.5kwh at 220v to charge 812 ft3/hr at 4500psi. 
I don't think this provides enough information to work out the efficiency.
It also depends on what you do with the heat from compression.

The heat you get from the environment on decompression is a bonus however. In winter driving you would need some heater for your occupants, and possibly for the compressed air system also. In summer driving air conditioning could be provided by the cold exhaust.

They are supposed to be a bit jerky at low speeds. This could be smoothed out with throttling devices, but that creates some additional inefficiencies. Thus an electric-compressed air hybrid might be appropriate for a mix of driving conditions. Other possibilities are to combine a smaller compressed air tank with a small propane tank and then have a combustion chamber as an very lean external combustion engine using pre-compressed air, or even as turbodiesel/compressed air hybrid where the air fuel mixture is again precompressed, perhaps by regenerative braking alone.

Compressed air engines can be really simple though, so it would be a shame to make it too complicated.


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## afrikaner (Sep 5, 2005)

Hydrogen. If you have a truck or car that can run on propane, you can use hydrogen as well, it would seem. It is fairly easy to extract hydrogen from water, but a little tricky getting it into a compressed tank...


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## speedfunk (Dec 7, 2005)

I really like the pickup. How sweet that would be for little chores around town. My wife works about 5 mi from where we live ... it would be perfect for her. 
It's tough though in my optionion to not make these small NEV or neighbor hood cars in general not look goofy  and i like small cars... I can see why some ******** ( most my friends ) wouldn't really want to drive one ! Hm... I wonder if they thought about 32's.


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