# SHTF scenerios and single women



## Pets4me (Oct 6, 2009)

This may have been asked before over the years, and if so, I apologize as I am new here.

I was reading the bob thread and it got me to thinking about what I'd do in that scenerio. What I was curious about was, which do you think is better for a single woman to do in SHTF or End of World scenerios, stay in place or leave our homes to join the safety of others?

I think that in a true emergency anyone who is a single person would have people trying to takeover their property first. Especially if there is a running "pack" going through the area. Maybe I am wrong. I know I don't want to leave but being a single woman, I feel semi-easy prey unless I shoot first and ask questions later. What do you guys all think?


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

I'm not a single woman but if I didn't have a human family, I'd make one of the canine persuasion and be a good shot. I think I'd get four dogs, train them well, and raise them to be like family. You could have a very capable pack in 18 months. I'd maybe even research which breeds would compliment each other well, train them to wear little doggie backpacks so they could "carry" supplies, etc.

ETA: I'm new at this though too and the more experienced people here may have good reasons why the above is a staggeringly bad idea


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

I'm not a guy, but I'd say there's safety in numbers if you're ok with the company. Do you have like-minded neighbors? If so, meeting with them and doing some what-if planning might be worthwhile. At least you'd have some idea of which direction to run if the situation called for a quick exit.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Im not sure a women or man would be safe alone in a SHTF situation, if there are roving packs. A person has to sleep sometimes.

I really think if things get that bad, small groups of like minded people will band together, & if your single it wont matter, as long as you have something to contribute to the overall benefit of the group.

Welcome to the forum


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Too many variables to say if you're best to go or stay. BUT generally speaking, it is better to stick to your own territory, particularly if you have supplies there. You can only carry so much if you hit the road and you may or may not (likely not) have a defensible position once you leave your home.

If your home area is so bad that you are afraid to be alone if things get any worse, you should seriously consider moving asap.


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

If you are discussing a TRUE SHTF---save the last bullet for yourself,because it won't be pretty.Humans can revert back to animal level(already enough out there)real quickly.If you're HOT,you'd be good barter..Just my opinion.


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## wvstuck (Sep 19, 2008)

Plan ahead, plan ahead, plan ahead. If you are thinking about joining a group... now would be the time to find the group, while communications are open and you can make informed decisions... Don't wait until the fan is spouting manure... Get a plan in place now, you'll have enough to do once things go south, finding people you trust will be the last thing you want to do on the fly.. Just saying!


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## ihedrick (May 15, 2005)

Just food for thought; when I worked with homeless folks, the single women often did pair up with a guy. Nothing romantic or anything. Just out of necessity. Each of them had their role in their safety relationship. He'd protect her and keep an eye out while she used the "facilities" and she took care of camp.
For me thought; I would save the last bullet and stand my grounds.


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## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

The first thing with men to go would be what is left of chivalry. Most women I know would kill you for a piece of bread if their children were truly hungry.
To prepare you should start shacking up with a companion who can be trusted. John Browning, Remington, Sam Colt.


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## MawKettle (Sep 13, 2006)

RedTartan said:


> train them to wear little doggie backpacks so they could "carry" supplies, etc.


Not to hijack the thread......but I absolutely LOVE this idea........

And the thought of my four >90lb "puppies" carrying backpacks is priceless.........

I'd settle for one of them doing a St. Benard imitation - but tying a barrel of whisky around the biggest one's neck isn't going to happen (although she THINKS she's a lapdog, she'd probably take my arm off if I tried to do that).

But I agree with you in principle RedTartan.....a single woman's best protection is a really huge dog that adores her, and a really reliable weapon (not to say that the dog couldn't serve both purposes, but a reliable firearm is a must).


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## Pets4me (Oct 6, 2009)

Lot's of good suggestions! 
Redtartan: I think the dogs are a great idea but in the true scenerio, no determined person is going to let dogs stop them. Dogs get shot or poisoned nowdays by criminals all the time. It would slow them down though!

Cyngbaeld: I wish I was out in the country but actually I am only about 20 miles from a college town. We get lot's of trouble in the neighborhood but not enough to move out over. I don't have the funds to move like you suggested but it's a good idea just the same.

Soulsurvivor: I don't know of any like minded people around this area. Not sure how to locate any without giving away info about preps.

Zant: Nope, I ain't HOT, but I can do just about anything which makes me still a valuable asset. But whether that's enough in a true scenerio - doubt it.

Thanks for all the ideas!


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## Graystone (May 1, 2008)

In the SHTF or End of World scenarios we should have planned and prepared WELL in advance whether to stay in place or leave our homes to join the safety of others. 

Staying in place makes the most sense if your place is safe. I use to live outside of Baltimore MD and that was not going to be a safe place to live under any SHTF or EOW scenario no matter what. Now I&#8217;m located in a safer locale so I plan on staying put.

If leaving is the only option you need to have your destination set well in advance and arrive with your "ticket" or have it in place. If you plan on hooking up with others I guess it goes without saying they should be in full agreement yet I heard others expect to see unwanted friends and family arrive when TSHTF. Plan on leaving for that location as soon as life begins to show signs of unraveling.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Like Cyngbaeld said... too many variables.

If you're sitting pretty in a remote rural community, and you're well prepped and know your handful of neighbors... why leave? If you're in a city, living on a lot, or in an apartment, I'd plan on leaving, the earlier the possible.

If you're bugging out to someplace better... know where you're going before it's 'time to go'. Learn the area, find out what the locals are like, and if possible, make friends, now. Bugging out blind, to wherever, without a clue, imho, is just planning on dying on the road. Even if it's a remote wilderness area, I'd want to know all the ins and outs, hike it, learn it, and ascertain whether I could 'survive' for a few months.

Staying put in a place that is ultimately unsurvivable is ok if there's a hope that civilization might return in a few weeks. If you stay just long enough for everyone to realize a new paradigm is present, and law and order break down completely.... even the normally kind people out on the road will revert to basic instincts quickly... leave too late, and it's suicide, unless you're well armed, and can sneak through the countryside.

So, imho... Bug out early or don't bug out at all. Best is to prep for where you live. If that place is in a city, you'll need good karma on your side. Cities don't produce much in the way of food... and once the food is gone, cannibalism will rear it's ugly head.

I've always thought bugging out is a suicide wish, unless you don't mind false starts, and bug out everytime something bad happens. If you wait till it's obvious the shtf, then you're stranded on the side of the road. (1st hand experience with Hurricane's Rita and Katrina)

As for the single woman issue... you'd have worries... singles period would have issues... like someone else already mentioned, you have to sleep sometime. If you can't pair off with someone you know, platonic or otherwise, in a bug out situation, I'd think 'camoflage' would be in order... 'ugly up'... bag lady look... anything to distract the predators. {Which works for sexual predators, but cannibals, like the ones in "The Road", wouldn't be deterred by looks... they'd be after food}

hopefully not tmi (too much information)


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## TurnerHill (Jun 8, 2009)

Civilization was built by men, but for women.

If civilization ends...it won't be good for women.

In a brutal, post-apocalyptic world, a single woman would be a commodity.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

I agree that in a total breakdown of any civilization, a woman alone would be easy prey for a gang. Dogs can be killed with lead or poison. You need a group. There must be someone standing guard at all times, preferably more than one on guard duty. 

I don't think it'll get to that point. I believe we'll either have local law or military in control. If we can't get out and move about, it'll be hard for others to move about too. 

Lots of eyes, lots of ammo, and lots of supplies is the only way to have a good chance of surviving a total breakdown of civilization.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

When I was single and in the heart of a violent city, I thought of it quite often.
Some of my thoughts were to dig a 'hidey hole' under the house for storage and to sleep in. A hidden entrance that would be bolted from my side etc..I planned on burning part of my house..especially around the windows etc.. and boarding up the windows as if the house was long empty and gone. Of course I would be a ble to peep out etc.. to see what needed to be seen. I had plans to eventually bug out, but I could stay put until the intial madness had passed.


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## FrontPorch (Mar 27, 2008)

If you have the option to join the safety of others then do it. If not, then you need to be just as armed and dangerous as they are. As my Sheriff friend says "The sound of a shotgun loading is universal. It means get the **bleep** out in every language!"


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## TurnerHill (Jun 8, 2009)

FrontPorch said:


> If you have the option to join the safety of others then do it. If not, then you need to be just as armed and dangerous as they are. As my Sheriff friend says "The sound of a shotgun loading is universal. It means get the **bleep** out in every language!"


And never sleep. And hope that the bad guys come at you one at a time.

Lone wolves die alone. Unless they're young females, in which case they may be kept around a while, for entertainment purposes.


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## Pets4me (Oct 6, 2009)

Texican: too much information? No, just great food for thought. Everyone has valid points on this. It does seem to make the future scenerios rather grim though if your single and female. But I agree that planning now, and setting things into motion towards those plans, is the best thing that we can do. Thanks for a lively, and thought provoking discussion!


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## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

Forget about the last bullet theory also. Kill one of the bleeps with it then use a knife, club, teeth and whatever. Remember, your status in hell is determined by how many of the bleeps you take with you.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Cyngbaeld said:


> Too many variables to say if you're best to go or stay. BUT generally speaking, it is better to stick to your own territory, particularly if you have supplies there. You can only carry so much if you hit the road and you may or may not (likely not) have a defensible position once you leave your home.
> 
> If your home area is so bad that you are afraid to be alone if things get any worse, you should seriously consider moving asap.


Exactly, to me, bugging in is safer than bugging out IF your situation at home is safe (or safer than bugging out). We'd need a lot more details to give you a better answer, but in general the best we can say is that 'it depends'


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Leave some old mens clothing and large boots in plain sight...make some footprints with the boots too
Put out a family portrait of a man and his 5 sons all carrying guns....leave some empty shells around....
Swear in a manly voice as needed...


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

As others have pointed out, single women would pretty much be in the same situation as single men and children. Anybody trying to go it alone would be vulnerable.:hobbyhors


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## Graystone (May 1, 2008)

zant said:


> . . . If you're HOT,you'd be good barter . . .


zant your response reminded of the tune by Jimmy Soul: If You Wanna Be Happy. From 1963.

If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So from my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you

Say man.
Hey baby.
Saw your wife the other day.
Yeah?
Yeah, she's ugly.
Yeah, she's ugly but she sure can cook. :banana02:


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

FourDeuce said:


> As others have pointed out, single women would pretty much be in the same situation as single men and children. Anybody trying to go it alone would be vulnerable.


Actually, that's not quite true. It would be much worse for women. If you were to do an internet search of the historically documented plight and fate of women during and after war, genocide or natural disasters you will find that women (single or not) will suffer attrition and atrocities 10 times worse than those inflicted on men or children.

Pets4me - it's a good question you asked and one that most people don't want to think about because it means thinking about a nightmare. Also, the answers given here are all speculative since most of the people here have not experienced the given situation. Maybe some of the people on the board who are military veterans who've seen a few atrocities could tell you what really happens to women of all ages and marital status. 

You have to look to real history, not fictional and speculative 'what-if' stories or movies, to determine that in a SHTF or TEOTWAKI situation a single woman MUST find a group of protectors as soon as possible. Even with protectors the chances of being brutalized by your protectors are very high if you don't have the necessary skills and knowledge that will make you a very valuable asset to the group. Otherwise you're just an extra mouth to not feed adequately and a body to play with and force into hard labor until you die from malnutrition, abuse and exposure.

.


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## Pets4me (Oct 6, 2009)

I am not trying to make this thread go long, but I do have a question for those of you who said that there are too many variables to adequately answer the initial question.

Although, I don't have any real answers or details to give you right now, I am curious what you all consider the "variables" would be needed to be able to answer adequately?

Naturelover: I agree with you that women would have it harder for the very reasons all the posters have stated above. Possibly children would have it next worst though.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Your size, health and condition. Your defensive skills. Where you are, where you would be trying to go, climate, geography. These are a few of the variables to consider, though by no means all.


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## themamahen (Jun 26, 2005)

My 2 Cents LOL 

Well I think living in any city is a bad idea.

IF you HAVE to be alone consider a BUG out location it doesnt have to be much there are places out west offering WINTER ACCESS ONLY these locations are IDEAL for TSHTF. you will be isolated in winter (example there is 20 acres for sale here for 40,000 he wont get that much for it, BUT it's 4 miles up a canyon dirt road and NO acess in winter) so some IDIOT is going to have to be realllll stupid to walk 4 miles with NO other houses in sight to MAYBE in the hopes of running across someone who may or may not have food?

Im not saying buy 20 acres but you can buy 5 acres in the hills for 10G somewhere close to you less crowded. 

GET the dogs and the Weapon both would be indespensable. a person does indeed have to sleep and the dogs will listen and alert you to whatever they hear. 

The people on this board are correct Hitting the road is a BAD idea. IMO BOB's are to get you to your bug out location the 5 acres, which you should have stockpiled by now, maybe a hand pump water source if there isnt a creek near, small pond exc. Foods Rice beans canned fruits and veggies. Gonna get lonesome in them hills too if your alone so pack some magazines and a BOX FULL of books you havent read pick them up at yardsales and such for a .25 pack em away  

It can be done 
Good Luck 
mama


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

I would definitely not want to be in the shoes of a young single woman in a SHTF scenario. Any lone wolf is easy pickins' but I think the afore mentioned example would stick out like a sore thumb in a mad max sort of world. Best bet is find a good group of friends now to watch your back if things go wonky. Heck I am a single man and I wouldn't want to go lone ranger in a SHTF mad max style world.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Find a group you can trust, a local church fellowship, or something similar. A single person & even a small family is not going to make it by themselves very long. Try to find a good solid group to fit in with.


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

What about passing? No one's mentioned that. What if a woman dressed as a man? I don't think it would work for certain body types, but if your not a small woman, don't have large breasts, etc. You might be able to pass as a man... 

I think I could. I'm almost 5'10". I have broad shoulders for a woman. If I cut my long blond hair, quit wearing makeup, and wore men's clothes... I might be able to pass...

Hey, it's a thought.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Pets4me said:


> Although, I don't have any real answers or details to give you right now, I am curious what you all consider the "variables" would be needed to be able to answer adequately?
> .


 Where you live, what the emergency situation is (and possibly how far from it you are), how well you know and trust your neighbors. What do you know how to do as far as survival skills, how much preps do you have, how sustainable is your current situation.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

If the SHTF, I hope a lot of those single women have a family to run to. I drive a school bus and there are a lot of children on my bus who live with either their mom only or thier grandmother. It's gonna be rough on them if they have no place to go.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

wow, lotta man-ragging going on, all I gotta say is be a good woman who can cook and you'll be surprised how many of those cro-magnons will be guarding your back. 

if you have to be a single person(any sex) you'd better be really good at hiding and moving about invisibly. Stash your stuff in lots of different places. Otherwise join a colony/tribe/team


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

wyld thang said:


> wow, lotta man-ragging going on, all I gotta say is be a good woman who can cook and you'll be surprised how many of those cro-magnons will be guarding your back.


Do you really think so?  I didn't think I saw any man-ragging happening in this topic, just people being honest, realistic and factual.

What is a 'good' woman? 

Women are capable of being extremely vicious towards other women, especially when there's a breakdown of civilization. Single women may be viewed with suspicion and jealousy and can become targets of other women in a group situation where the single women will be considered competition for the attention and protection of stronger or attached individuals. Mothers/wives will see to the needs and comforts of their children/husbands before they'll see to the needs of single women who compete for the same comforts. In any group situation there will be a pecking order and the unskilled woman without a protector or advocate will be at the bottom of the pecking order, she may be ostracised by other women and get stuck with their most undesireable and laborious duties. And men won't interfere with that pecking order otherwise they'll get into trouble themselves.

Cooking is good but just about anyone can cook if you give them something to cook and to cook _with_ and it's a _very cherry_ duty that people with seniority in a group situation will compete for. The cook in charge has everyone elses' lives in their hands. The responsibility for cooking will go only to the proven most knowledgeable and most frugal, _trustworthy_ cook who won't steal food or tamper with it or accidently poison people because of lack of knowledge about food hygiene. 

A few other skills for a single woman that would be highly valued in a group are proven knowledge of health care, herbalism and preparation of natural medicines and poisons, midwifery, animal husbandry, knowledge of tools and crafting, carpentry and shelter building, leatherworking, tailoring, scavenging, hunting and gathering.... just to name a few.

There's one other skill that would come in handy but I don't think I need to mention what that is. 

.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

And it's the unmentionable one that causes the most problems, LOL!


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## themamahen (Jun 26, 2005)

bowdonkey said:


> And it's the unmentionable one that causes the most problems, LOL!


:rotfl:

TOOOO TRUE!!!


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## hillbillly (Jun 28, 2009)

you could hide your sex, pass yourself off as a man.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Any single person can possibly be taken out , especially if they aren't very adept at defending themselves. I think it's pretty naive to think if you are a "good woman who can cook" that you will be fine. It's a good idea to have buddies lined up in case of a crisis, that said, I'll be dead before I roll over and give up my homestead for just any cro-magnon . Call me stubborn lol.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Well, passing yourself off as a man might work for awhile. Till they start wondering why your crabby 1 week out of the month, every month. And then wonder why they cant find their socks:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

If it is truly SHTF, I doubt there will be a Safeway or 7-11, or any store that will be able to deal with those emergencies, I kinda doubt there will be a daily newspaper to use as a substitute either


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## hillbillly (Jun 28, 2009)

there will always be rags, cloth.
and it's just sexist nonsense to posit
that a woman could not hide her period,
not all get grumpy, 
and who would bother tracking the cycle
even if 'he' was grumpy now and then-
so are men.
what IS a historical fact is that
women have passed themselves off
as men, successfully, before now
and could do so again if needed.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Trinity3 said:


> Well, passing yourself off as a man might work for awhile. Till they start wondering why your crabby 1 week out of the month, every month. And then wonder why they cant find their socks:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
> 
> If it is truly SHTF,* I doubt there will be a Safeway or 7-11, or any store that will be able to deal with those emergencies, I kinda doubt there will be a daily newspaper to use as a substitute eithe*r


I have a daughter that has 4 children and has sewn her own monthly pads and their diapers and uses them NOW. No trips to the store once her supply was made. So don't assume some things, you could be incorrect.

Angie


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

hillbillly said:


> there will always be rags, cloth.
> and it's just sexist nonsense to posit
> that a woman could not hide her period,
> not all get grumpy,
> ...


It is indeed a historical fact that women have passed themselves off as men, & as long as theyre was a society, any one could scraps of cloths, yet if its SHTF & nobody's selling things, & your all in the hills, well, that could get a bit complicated.


Not all women get grumpy, just 90% of the ones I have met do, & I am one.

My comment was basically ment as humorous, to a point, yet I think a male can figure out a female real quick, especially in a survival situation, or close quarters


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

AngieM2 said:


> I have a daughter that has 4 children and has sewn her own monthly pads and their diapers and uses them NOW. No trips to the store once her supply was made. So don't assume some things, you could be incorrect.
> 
> Angie



I dont mean any disrespect to you & I applaud your Daughters accomplishments. Yet really, how many women think that far ahead or do that?
or even know about that?

When you say she sowed them was it on a machine or by hand? If it truly is SHTF, do you think the electrical grid would be running? I suppose a person could hand stitch them, yet if you are trying to pass yourself off as a man, wouldnt the other men wonder about that?

My post was half jest, half not. Some things are just kinda hard to hide.

Im not saying a person couldn't pass them selves off as the other sex, yet it would be hard in cramped quarters, or close daily contact, or survival situations 

Men & Women are just built differently & its very obviuos in certain situatuions

Edited to Add, its just this notion people have that, I will just crawl off to the woods & it will be okay. For 5% maybe

for the other 95% that dont really know what they are doing or getting involved in, maybe not

Just my thoughts


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## diane (May 4, 2002)

Older widows in war torn countries are victimized just as much as young women by raping bands of men. Going out of camp to gather firewood has been a problem in Darfur and other places. My hope has been that if we disintegrated into a "Mad Max" scenerio that it would happen in the winter. Having experienced slipping into hypothermia and going to sleep, I think it would be a fine way to die as opposed to the many alternatives I see for an elderly woman found alone.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

It's true that historically some women have disguised themselves as men but they weren't able to maintain the illusion for very long. 

It would be extremely difficult for a woman of this society to disguise herself as a man and keep up the pretense for very long. How does one suddenly change a lifetime of instinctual and physical habits? Not likely.

She would have to keep at a distance and not get within 1/2 a mile of other people, and would have to stay very still and quiet. In survival situations peoples senses of smell, sight and hearing go into hyper-drive and men can smell a woman's pheromones from 1/2 a mile away, they can especially smell her if she's menstruating. There are far too many other visual and audio tell tales that would give her away. Women don't walk the same way as men, it's physically impossible because they have a wider pelvis. Women have narrower shoulders and shorter arms and smaller bone structure, smaller skulls and narrower jaws. They don't have adam's apples or facial hair or the deeper voice or laughter of a man, and they lack the physical strength. 

Besides which, the woman who was successful at passing herself off as a young undeveloped man would soon attract the attention of non-discriminating rapists who would just as soon ravish a feminine boy as they would a woman. And then when her deception was discovered she would be in for a brutal beating as well as rape.

For survival's sake I think it would be better to be a bold and intimidating woman rather than be disguised as a mousy man.

.


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## Possumcat (Oct 2, 2008)

GoldenCityMuse said:


> Find a group you can trust, a local church fellowship, or something similar. A single person & even a small family is not going to make it by themselves very long. Try to find a good solid group to fit in with.


I agree....get with some other like minded single women and stick together. If you have the room, make your place base camp. 

But at the same time, I'd trust a dog before I trusted a person. Sorry, but that's just me. Get 3 to 4 "fuel efficient" dogs and train, train train them. Find breeds that are not barkers since laying low and being quiet may be just as important in a SHTF scenario. 
Just my 2 cents.
--Jenn


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Possumcat said:


> I agree....get with some other like minded single women and stick together. If you have the room, make your place base camp.


I think this is one of the best suggestions that's been made. If you have nowhere to go and can't bug out then bug in at your own place and invite other single women to join you. Safety in numbers even in cramped quarters is better than becoming prey outside all alone. Buddy up in alert groups when going out to scavenge and leave another group at home base to protect the place while you're gone.

.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

texican said:


> ... imho... Bug out early or don't bug out at all.


I agree.




> ... I've always thought bugging out is a suicide wish, unless you don't mind false starts, and bug out everytime something bad happens. If you wait till it's obvious the shtf, then you're stranded on the side of the road. (1st hand experience with Hurricane's Rita and Katrina)


Good point.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

naturelover said:


> It's true that historically some women have disguised themselves as men but they weren't able to maintain the illusion for very long.
> 
> It would be extremely difficult for a woman of this society to disguise herself as a man and keep up the pretense for very long. How does one suddenly change a lifetime of instinctual and physical habits? Not likely.
> 
> ...


I understand where you are coming from in your posts.

However, there are more variables.

I once sat and watched females leaving a shipyard, with a female friend of mine.

The office-worker females with their high-heels and skirts all did the but wiggle walk. High-heel throw you forward and off balance, makes your but stick-out and due to the pelvis design your pace is, uh, your tracks show your left foot gets placed nearly in a straight line with your right foot.

Whereas the females who wore workboots and carried tools around all day. Walked like men. Their tracks would show that their left foot and right foot trails would be 6 inches to a foot apart. 

IMHO, these walking patterns do carry over into a person's thinking. Off-balance and unsteady verses wide-stance stable and balanced.


These are things which a person puts onto themselves.

Any female can learn to be that office-worker, or that welder.


As to the olfactory abilities of men. Well maybe.

I have lived for extended periods confined with only men [on submarines]. And the presence of female pheromones do change how men act. I can not say for sure if they would even realize it's effect. Not all men can consciously smell pheromones. But they do change how men interact socially, the dynamics change.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

naturelover said:


> I think this is one of the best suggestions that's been made. If you have nowhere to go and can't bug out then bug in at your own place and invite other single women to join you. Safety in numbers even in cramped quarters is better than becoming prey outside all alone. Buddy up in alert groups when going out to scavenge and leave another group at home base to protect the place while you're gone.
> 
> .


can't some single men join in too? only if they're "good men" of course...


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## ihedrick (May 15, 2005)

Don't forget that men have their cycles too.


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## Jim in Ok (Jun 17, 2008)

naturelover said:


> Actually, that's not quite true. It would be much worse for women. If you were to do an internet search of the historically documented plight and fate of women during and after war, genocide or natural disasters you will find that women (single or not) will suffer attrition and atrocities 10 times worse than those inflicted on men or children.
> 
> Pets4me - it's a good question you asked and one that most people don't want to think about because it means thinking about a nightmare. Also, the answers given here are all speculative since most of the people here have not experienced the given situation. Maybe some of the people on the board who are military veterans who've seen a few atrocities could tell you what really happens to women of all ages and marital status.
> 
> ...


From a veterans point of view, the first thing to happen to young single women is they often get sold into prostitution, or find some type of niche like cooking and cleaning, or child raising, to support themselves. 

The sex industry often looms large...and it isnt pretty

Nice to meet another Bubbleheads...ET1(SS)...I am a former TM1(SS)


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## randy11acres (Aug 29, 2009)

I am a single guy and my advice to the idea of single gals banding together is to make sure of who you invite to join you. Some can hand wringers in times of "trouble" and cause more problems than help. This goes for guys too.


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## Pets4me (Oct 6, 2009)

You have all had good points and have given me, (and a lot of other people), so much to think about! This is all a future shtf scenerio fortunately, and not a reality for right now, this day. I do not have my homestead yet, but will be inheriting 2 acres in the next year or two. If the scenerio was for today, where I am now I would bugout in a heartbeat. But once on the property, I am now convinced, after all the thought provoking postings, I will make a stand on the property. You have all given me such good advice on how to prepare the property to make that stand possible. Thank you all!


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## Jim in Ok (Jun 17, 2008)

Just a little reminder, so that it can help. 

There are still good people to be found during a war or bad time period in history. Examples:

My FIL was raised by a complete stranger after his entire family was killed in a bombing attack during WWII. he stayed in my FIL's home until the day he died, and ended up filling the grandfather role. 

People still fall in love, get married, and have kids. This wont change. No matter how bad things get. 

There are still good people out there, who will help you. But be careful and dont let down your guard until they prove themselves. 

Just a little perspective.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Jim in Ok said:


> From a veterans point of view, the first thing to happen to young single women is they often get sold into prostitution, or find some type of niche like cooking and cleaning, or child raising, to support themselves.
> 
> The sex industry often looms large...and it isnt pretty


Yes.

We saw the white-slave mentality when serving at my last duty station. My Dw and I attempted to purchase a slave-girl with the intent to adopt her as our daughter and bring her back to the states. Her owners circled in quickly and were very defensive. It would appear that she represented far too much profit, for them to willingly sell her to Americans.



Hey there TM1(SS)


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## Jim in Ok (Jun 17, 2008)

I agree with you there ET1 (SS) ...I spent several years in the Phillipines during their 1980's Civil War. Besides what I said about the women, many times kids were trained to pick pockets, and even the elderly were used to solicit or hustle in some manner that would provide for the family. The jails were often full to the brim, and people were often given pretty harsh punishment for the smallest crimes. 

There were a lot of us that tried to buy working papers.....and some of us were able to, but the parents often just sold the girls right back into prostitution before we even returned from sea. Older women were the "mama-sans" who often ran the prostitution rings and bought the girls. Single women: remember that point well!

The men came in two categories.....those who were in the military and those who were rebels and opposed them. Another small category were little more than criminals and pimps. 


Martial law closed the streets about 10-1100 at night. if you were out after that, you could be shot...American or not. 
Thats my recollections of the early 1980's Phillipines during their Civil War. 


Good to meet ya ET1(SS)


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I honestly hadn't put much thought into what we would personally do involving others if SHTF. After reading this thread, I am now going to discuss this with DH. He is physically fit, healthy, and still strong for his age. If he and I were the only ones here, we still wouldn't stand a chance! We could survive probably all but the 2-legged threats. I couldn't pass for a guy at all. I am 5'5" and slender, so forget that idea. Oh, I am very accurate with a firearm, but us two against "how many" we could encounter without leaving our home?! I don't panic during emergencies, am analytical, and fairly logical (every day, not the 90%)- thick skinned. None of that would matter if SHTF.

Between us, we have four sons and one daughter (my 2nd marriage); all are grown. His sons range from 6'2" to 6'5", all have had self-defense training, with the biggest a security officer for a maximum security prison. My son is 6'4" and physically strong, not trained in self-defense, can shoot though. We would have to hide my daughter, no question! So, the optimal situation would be to have our children here, make sure we were all armed, food/water is no problem. We already have neighbors we can trust, who are old-school, and would band together. There are others who I'd be worried for. 

Dogs? Oh, I'd make sure our kids brought theirs. Our Sam is a great alarm, but would be taken out, like any dog, very quickly.

I probably missed it, but I didn't see anything about having surveillance on your property, and setting up perimeter warning systems, with back-up plans for failure...or a secret hidden bomb shelter (most properties have a place where one can be built) to hide in, having alternate secret storage spaces for dehydrated/canned foods... having reloading equipment (ammunition does run out). 

Okay, getting late, so will stop here...


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

ET1 SS said:


> The office-worker females with their high-heels and skirts all did the but wiggle walk. High-heel throw you forward and off balance, makes your but stick-out and due to the pelvis design your pace is, uh, your tracks show your left foot gets placed nearly in a straight line with your right foot.
> 
> *Whereas the females who wore workboots and carried tools around all day. Walked like men. Their tracks would show that their left foot and right foot trails would be 6 inches to a foot apart.*
> 
> IMHO, these walking patterns do carry over into a person's thinking. Off-balance and unsteady verses wide-stance stable and balanced.


You made a really good point and I can certainly relate to that, and agree that different types of footwear can change the way a person walks. When I was working in construction I found that when I was wearing heavy steel-toed work boots I was forced to pick my feet up more and swing my legs out further in a stride more like a man's stride, otherwise I would end up kicking myself in the ankles or tripping over my own feet. And wearing them and walking that way gave me a daily back-ache, then after I got home at the end of the day and got the boots off it felt so much better but I would feel slightly off balance for a short while. It was kind of like having to adjust to walking a different way twice a day every day. 

Normally I just wear flat-soled slip-on shoes, but even in flat soles I DO still place my feet directly in front of each other instead of to the side, as you mentioned you had noticed with the ladies in the high-heels. So I guess the lesson is that if a woman wants to appear to walk the way a man walks she needs to wear a man's type of heavy work boots to get the hang of it.

But I tell ya, I never could RUN in those heavy work boots without tripping and falling flat on my face. LOL.

.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

Pets4me,

As others have said, it depends.... on the circumstances and yourself.

I know a single woman who is a 13 year veteran Drill Instructor in the Israeli army...... I would bet on her her ability to survive over most people I know.

I could go on with other examples of women that are survivor 
(and I don't mean the television show) types. Does this mean they will necessarily survive "x" situation? Absolutely not. What it does mean is that they won't hesitate or get squeamish if they need to take action.

Whether to stay put or bug out will also depend on the nature of the situation. Bugging out isn't just running away. Do you have a place to bug out to or are you just wandering aimlessly? Are there people you know and trust that you feel you can work together with? Have you ever drilled and tested whether your plans actually work? 

I'd rather be alone or with a small group of capable individuals than a larger group of incompetents.

Mike

Mike


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Pets4me, if you haven't already done so, read One Second After, and Patriots. The first about EMP strike, the second deals with economic collapse. They are both fiction, but both contain things that will open your eyes to things you haven't given a thought to. Opened mine for sure on some issues that had not entered my thoughts.
Ed


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

naturelover said:


> It's true that historically some women have disguised themselves as men but they weren't able to maintain the illusion for very long.
> 
> It would be extremely difficult for a woman of this society to disguise herself as a man and keep up the pretense for very long. How does one suddenly change a lifetime of instinctual and physical habits? Not likely.
> 
> ...


"Sarah Conner" of the Terminator movies would indeed have a higher survival rating than an "Annie Hall"...


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## Pets4me (Oct 6, 2009)

Wow, I am so impressed with all the different viewpoints and experiences you have all had! The nice thing is that you have all been able to discuss different sides of this with no one getting upset or extra negative. I have seen so many threads go sour because people took a thread posting as a personal insult. To those who thought it seemed to be male bashing, I don&#8217;t see it as that at all. Facts are facts, and basic human behavior is just that. By reading all these posts, history has played out that most of the postings are right on. This has been a great discussion and I am honored to be a part of it!

Randy11acres: I totally agree!
ET1 SS & Naturelover: I agree that it would be hard to &#8220;unconsciously&#8221; remember to &#8220;wear the clothes&#8221; mentally continuously when in the presence of others. Being in disguise will work if you do have those certain body types if you can remember &#8220;to wear the clothes&#8221; mentally. I will say that I have noticed that the quickest way to tell if someone is a woman or not is look at the hands. They will usually give it away, not with just have the &#8220;working hands look&#8221; but by structure of the hands. You can cover up a lot but the hands stick out like &#8220;a sore thumb.&#8221; (Sorry, dumb pun!)
To those who served in armed forces: Thank you! Your experiences are extremely valuable to the perspective of this thread.
Whiterock/Ed: Thanks for the recommended reading! I have not read those yet, but I will do so.
Mike: I bet your drill instructor friend can kick &#8220;&#8212;s&#8221;! But I also feel that there is a great chance that she would go down fighting, but still go down. Your suggestions are very valid and I will take them to heart!
Lorichristie: If you kids don&#8217;t show up, you and hubby are welcome down here! Just go south!
To Jim and others, who reminded us that there will be good people out there too at that time: I know that is true and will continue to be true even at the worst of times. Finding those people at that time could be the basic problem.
Texican: Sarah for President!

As I said earlier, after reading this whole thread, I feel I will make a stand if the SHTF. I may at some point go down with the ship, so to speak. But whoever messes with me will surely remember me, as I took a lot of notes from the &#8220;Home Alone&#8221; kid! Lol! Thanks everyone!


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## Wings (Jun 1, 2007)

Found this online:
Passing as male: http://www.geocities.com/equal_of_heaven/passing.html


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