# Is anyone making combustable cartridges for sale



## FarmboyBill

for 36 Navy Colt Revolvers?


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## Bearfootfarm

No.
Why would they when there would be no demand?


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## Texaspredatorhu

Dixie gun works and ammo-one both do 44 at the price of 6/$20. Call them up and see if they can make you some outside that YouTube how to roll your own.


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## FarmboyBill

Yeah, I saw those 6 for $20. No go.

Why do you say theres no demand when it hasn't been proved? Im not the only one to own Navys or other cal pistols.


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## FarmboyBill

Imgoin g with the U Tube of some german sounding guy. I need to get a micrometer? to be able to measure out the dowel measurments he uses. Ital be handy for other stuff also.


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## Bearfootfarm

FarmboyBill said:


> Yeah, I saw those 6 for $20. No go.
> 
> *Why do you say theres no demand* when it hasn't been proved? Im not the only one to own Navys or other cal pistols.


I say it because it's true.

There is not enough demand to make it worth anyone's efforts, which is why it's $20 for 6 rounds of a popular caliber.

It's easy to make your own with cigarette papers or toilet paper

Black powder handgun shooters are a very small minority.


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## Bearfootfarm

FarmboyBill said:


> Imgoin g with the U Tube of some german sounding guy. *I need to get a micrometer?* to be able to measure out the dowel measurments he uses. Ital be handy for other stuff also.


Get some dial calipers. They will be more useful.
You don't really need them for what you're doing though.

You just need a dowel about the same diameter as the ball, and the length isn't critical.


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## FarmboyBill

I found in doing what you said, that the bullets wouldn't fit into the cyl holes IF they were made the same dia as the ball. As the german sounding guy on U tubes did, I realize I have to do, and that is to taper the butt end a bit to make them fit.
Ive watched several U Tubes of guys making rounds with the tube the same dia as the ball, but they never try to load them.
Im looking this week, in Tulsa for magic supply houses to find flash paper.


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## Dutch 106

There is was a book on rolling your own. I personally would,
nitrate the paper myself.
Dutch


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## Bearfootfarm

FarmboyBill said:


> I found in doing what you said, that *the bullets wouldn't fit into the cyl holes IF they were made the same dia as the ball*. As the german sounding guy on U tubes did, I realize I have to do, and that is to taper the butt end a bit to make them fit.
> Ive watched several U Tubes of guys making rounds with the tube the same dia as the ball, but they never try to load them.
> Im looking this week, in Tulsa for magic supply houses to find flash paper.


Here's what I said.


> You just need a dowel *about* the same diameter as the ball


Use a .375 dowel and try it. 
If it won't work, chuck it in a drill and sand off a few thousandths. 
You make things harder than they need to be. 

The ball is larger than the cylinder by design, so as to give a "press fit" that assures a tight seal. 
Since the paper isn't rigid, it's no big deal if you need to compress it a bit to make it go in. 

There's no need for flash paper. 
You simply tear off the end just before you load them.

I'd just forget about the paper and fill the cylinders with powder then seat the ball. 
You're not really saving any time with the paper cartridges.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

if you want to save the time of the grease over the top you can use a lubed felt wad under the ball.

if you really need to reload a c&b quickly you need a second cylinder and even that isn't magazine fast


if your looking for a defensive firearm that you can carry with you , and the budget is tight there are a number of carry guns for about 200 that would serve you better and be much easier to carry than a cap and ball.


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## FarmboyBill

Money is EXTREMLY tight, and IF I hadn't had these pistols for since 72, I wouldnt buy them now.


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## FarmboyBill

I keep my carry card in the holder of my door. I don't carry a gun.

A couple weeks ago, a guy robbed a gas station, I think, in Tulsa. I bystander tried to stop him and the robber shot and killed him, BUT a gun with his gun shot the robber. I told my X that IF I had happened onto that scene, and had my card but not my gun, that would have bothered me for a long time.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

then I think the best thing would be for you to load loose powder in a clean gun and make it the most reliable you possibly could and know you have 5 or 6 rounds to get it done and fire off those, clean and reload weekly maybe alternating between guns , while you make sure the one is 100% dry before reassembly and reload

I would also try and stuff 5 dollars a week in a jar and any loose change in a years time that 5 dollars will buy you a decent carry gun maybe even before depending on deals


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## Bearfootfarm

FarmboyBill said:


> Money is EXTREMLY tight, and IF I hadn't had these pistols for since 72, I wouldnt buy them now.


If money is "tight" why waste it on flash paper when you can pour the powder directly into the cylinders?

Paper cartridges are for making RELOADS faster. 
They offer no other advantages.

You wouldn't be reloading in most self defense uses, and shouldn't be carrying a BP gun for that in the first place.


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## FarmboyBill

Buying flash paper enough for what id ever shoot, and saving $300 for a good gun are 2 MAJOR different things.
Called Dixie Arms. They don't have no kits for making rounds. Checked. Tulsa dosnt have any magic shops, but they are online


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## FarmboyBill

knowing I had extra rounds would more cause me to enter a situation more agressivly than if I knew all I had was the 6 I carried.
How many soldiers in Iraq would enjoy carrying a Civil War Gun, even a Henry. I doubt if any. The more rounds available, the more confident a soldier/person is, even if they don't use them.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

A high point would be far better than a civil war gun in a modern gun fight.

anything short of magazine speed in a gun fight is to slow you need the second mag in before the first one hits the ground if your going to bother carrying a spare mag.

300 will buy you a nice carry gun 
250 will get you some decent guns
150 will get you a used high point 

I was serious about 5 dollars a week

heck sell the cap and balls together they should get you a carry gun 


really they are not that different you will probably have 40-50 dollars invested in a waste of time 

even if you carried the cap and balls reloading one every week your looking at 16 reloads on a tin of caps and box of balls with the cost of caps powder and balls along your at about 95 dollars for the year.

sell the cap and balls for 125 each buy a 250 dollar carry gun a 40 dollar holster and 55 dollars in ammo and you carry for the year much easier with a better probability at reliability and not that you r ever likely to get the chance to reload the ability to reload and you haven't spent any more than it was going to cost you to carry large cumbersome civil war era guns.


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## Bearfootfarm

FarmboyBill said:


> Buying flash paper enough for what id ever shoot, and saving $300 for a good gun are 2 MAJOR different things.
> * Checked. Tulsa dosnt have any magic shops, but they are online*


*




Called Dixie Arms. They don't have no kits for making rounds.

Click to expand...

I told you there was no demand for such things.




knowing I had extra rounds would more cause me to enter a situation more agressivly than if I knew all I had was the 6 I carried.
How many soldiers in Iraq would enjoy carrying a Civil War Gun, even a Henry. I doubt if any. The more rounds available, the more confident a soldier/person is, even if they don't use them.

Click to expand...

If that's what you think, you should just get rid of your guns altogether before you get yourself killed.

Going into a possible gunfight with a black powder gun is foolish.

Thinking that having reloads makes things better is even more foolish.

Sell some of those old vehicles or farm implements you have sitting around and buy a real gun.*


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## FarmboyBill

At 70 I don't intend to get in a real gunfight. I don't intend to look for one. I just intend to live till I die without anybody trying to hurry up that proposition lol


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## beowoulf90

Easiest way to make rounds for your cap & ball is to to take some rolling papers and roll it around your ball. 
Add a wad, so it is between your ball and powder.
Pour in the correct charge of powder.
Twist / or seal the open end 
Twisting it shut will help taper it and allow quick insertion into the chamber. You will still have to tear it open before you load it to expose the powder and you will still have to ram the ball home as the cap & ball revolvers were intended.

Chain fires in c&b revolvers can be deadly to the user and those around them. That is why the ball is larger. But I'm sure you already know that.. That is why I don't understand why you are trying to bypass this safety design.. If you've never had one chain fire and blow up in your hand, then maybe i could understand.. But I had a reproduction 1860 Colt do just that..It split the barrel open just above the loading lever and blew the top chamber of the cylinder off. 
I could fix it with all the parts and pieces I have in the shop, but I keep it around as a reminder that you need to do things right and follow all the safety designs. I got lucky, you might not
There is other option buy a conversion cylinder.


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## Bearfootfarm

beowoulf90 said:


> Easiest way to make rounds for your cap & ball is to to take some rolling papers and roll it around your ball.
> Add a wad, so it is between your ball and powder.
> Pour in the correct charge of powder.
> Twist / or seal the open end
> Twisting it shut will help taper it and allow quick insertion into the chamber. You will still have to tear it open before you load it to expose the powder and you will still have to ram the ball home as the cap & ball revolvers were intended.
> 
> Chain fires in c&b revolvers can be deadly to the user and those around them. That is why the ball is larger. But I'm sure you already know that.. That is why I don't understand why you are trying to bypass this safety design.. If you've never had one chain fire and blow up in your hand, then maybe i could understand.. But I had a reproduction 1860 Colt do just that..It split the barrel open just above the loading lever and blew the top chamber of the cylinder off.
> I could fix it with all the parts and pieces I have in the shop, but I keep it around as a reminder that you need to do things right and follow all the safety designs. I got lucky, you might not
> There is other option buy a *conversion cylinder*.


The problem there is the bore diameter is .375 and a 38 Special bullet diameter is .357. 

Unless you use dead soft bullets they won't obturate and seal the bore.

It makes more sense to buy a real gun for self defense.

http://www.kirstkonverter.com/shopcontent.asp?type=coltnavy



> .38 Long Colt -Six Shot: The .36 caliber percussion revolver barrel has a bore diameter of .375 inches. Todayâs .38 caliber cartridges are loaded with .357-inch diameter bullets. To attain accuracy with a modern .38 caliber cartridge, in your reproduction Navy revolver, you must shoot soft lead .38 Special, hollow base wad cutter, .38 Colt hollow base or .38 Colt healed ammunition. The soft lead hollow base bullet will âbump upâ to the .375-inch bore diameter and shoot very accurately.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

the Krist converter also costs as much or nearly as much as a new 9mm carry gun


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## FarmboyBill

RIGHT. Id MUCH rather buy a open top 38 Colt, as it has the same feel as a Navy


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## Texaspredatorhu

FarmboyBill said:


> RIGHT. Id MUCH rather buy a open top 38 Colt, as it has the same feel as a Navy


If you are carrying a single action revolver for self defense I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you need it. I carry a 1911 and I still practice 2-3 times weekly at the range and draw from open and concealed. I'm not convinced you could draw that pull the hammer back and fire it remotely accurately before getting shot yourself or even stabbed for that matter! Take a look at a sccy 9mm or a kahr 9mm. Kahr has many lines but also has an economy line that is actually decent. I bought an sccy a few weeks ago and it's not too bad of a gun. I believe both are American made but I could be wrong. You need something practical for carry and honestly defense in the home if that's your intention. On top of all that if you decide to carry a BP revolver and ever need to use it good luck taking a follow up shot if needed, you won't be able to see! Whatever you choose good luck!


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## Bearfootfarm

FarmboyBill said:


> RIGHT. Id MUCH rather buy a open top 38 Colt, as it has the same feel as a Navy


You'd pay more for one of those than a cheap modern revolver in 357, and it would be chambered in 38 S&W, another obsolete, anemic cartridge.

I think you should just forget about carrying a gun at all if you won't get one that's reliable.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

FarmboyBill said:


> How many soldiers in Iraq would enjoy carrying a Civil War Gun, even a Henry. I doubt if any.



your right no soldier would go into a modern fight with a 120 year old gun

your right you shouldn't go into a potential gun fight without a decent gun and an open top 38 Colt doesn't count.

I don't want to be mean but you seem set to handicap yourself before you even get out out of the starting gate.

let me know when your ready to start working on 12 rounds from a draw with a reload on 6 targets in 10 seconds and I can help , until then your better off just playing old and stupid and not carrying anything of value and hoping that is good enough.


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## FarmboyBill

Kinda funny. The police carried 38s for 50or more years. I was a city marshall for a few months and that's what they gave me.

I don't think ANYBODY is going to get, OR want a chance to fire a doz rounds in a bad situation. Maybe 3, enough to either get away OR scare the perp into getting away. Bad guys dont want to stay around and deal with someone with a gun. It isn't worth it. IF they get hit, they got to go to a hospital where they get caught, if they don't die.. Theyre only bold with people they outgun, and that is somebody with no gun at all. I doubt if theyed stick around if someone held them off with a single shot muzzle loader pistol. Ive never seen so called tough guys who were all that tough when the lead was coming back at them, and ive never heard/read of it either. Yes, rifles at long range, maybe, but pistols at 50ft, nope.


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## Bearfootfarm

FarmboyBill said:


> Kinda funny. *The police carried 38s* for 50or more years. I was a city marshall for a few months and that's what they gave me.
> 
> I don't think ANYBODY is going to get, OR want a chance to fire a doz rounds in a bad situation. Maybe 3, enough to either get away OR scare the perp into getting away. Bad guys dont want to stay around and deal with someone with a gun. It isn't worth it. IF they get hit, they got to go to a hospital where they get caught, if they don't die.. Theyre only bold with people they outgun, and that is somebody with no gun at all. I doubt if theyed stick around if someone held them off with a single shot muzzle loader pistol. Ive never seen so called tough guys who were all that tough when the lead was coming back at them, and ive never heard/read of it either. Yes, rifles at long range, maybe, but pistols at 50ft, nope.


They carried 38 Specials or 357 Magnums, not the 38 S&W that was used in the old top-break revolvers.

Based on your statements I think you'd be better off not carrying a gun at all.


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## Texaspredatorhu

FarmboyBill said:


> Kinda funny. The police carried 38s for 50or more years. I was a city marshall for a few months and that's what they gave me.
> 
> I don't think ANYBODY is going to get, OR want a chance to fire a doz rounds in a bad situation. Maybe 3, enough to either get away OR scare the perp into getting away. Bad guys dont want to stay around and deal with someone with a gun. It isn't worth it. IF they get hit, they got to go to a hospital where they get caught, if they don't die.. Theyre only bold with people they outgun, and that is somebody with no gun at all. I doubt if theyed stick around if someone held them off with a single shot muzzle loader pistol. Ive never seen so called tough guys who were all that tough when the lead was coming back at them, and ive never heard/read of it either. Yes, rifles at long range, maybe, but pistols at 50ft, nope.


50ft?!?! They better have a gun pointed at you or your the one going to prison! You are absolutely right though I don't want to fire 12 rounds and honestly I hope I never have to fire a single round but I also refuse to be outgunned so if I carry a 1911 with 8 and a sccy backup with 10 in the truck I'm good. 

I'm not going to say you shouldn't own a firearm but you might be better off leaving them at the house and hitting the floor with the rest of the sheeple should you decide to carry a firearm that is NOT dependable, it will cost you your life more than likely in the end.


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## Texaspredatorhu

Forgot this part.

http://grabagun.com/sccy-cpx-2-9mm-10rd-blk-3-1-3dot.html

200 bucks for an sccy 9mm. If you want a colored frame or stainless slide they go up to about 300 I think.

You and get into a kahr for about 300.


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## blanket

FarmboyBill said:


> Kinda funny. The police carried 38s for 50or more years. I was a city marshall for a few months and that's what they gave me.
> 
> I don't think ANYBODY is going to get, OR want a chance to fire a doz rounds in a bad situation. Maybe 3, enough to either get away OR scare the perp into getting away. Bad guys dont want to stay around and deal with someone with a gun. It isn't worth it. IF they get hit, they got to go to a hospital where they get caught, if they don't die.. Theyre only bold with people they outgun, and that is somebody with no gun at all. I doubt if theyed stick around if someone held them off with a single shot muzzle loader pistol. Ive never seen so called tough guys who were all that tough when the lead was coming back at them, and ive never heard/read of it either. Yes, rifles at long range, maybe, but pistols at 50ft, nope.


FBB, I have been on the down range side of people shooting and trying to kill me. First off abandon your idea of using a 36 cap and ball pistol for self defense, Wild Bill Hickok used a pair of Navy's but pulled, cleaned and recapped and reloaded daily. Based on your past posts this is not going to happen. If you are serious about protecting yourself get a cartridge pistol. Other thing you think a bad guy is going to pizz himself at the first shot going off, you are very sadly mistaken


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## beowoulf90

Bearfootfarm said:


> The problem there is the bore diameter is .375 and a 38 Special bullet diameter is .357.
> 
> Unless you use dead soft bullets they won't obturate and seal the bore.
> 
> It makes more sense to buy a real gun for self defense.
> 
> http://www.kirstkonverter.com/shopcontent.asp?type=coltnavy



The 1860 Colt Army Repro is a 45 cal. They make cartridge cylinders in 45 Colt for them, if you want to spend the money. 
Same thing for my 1858 Reminton New Model Army, it's a 45 cal and again they make a cartridge cylinder in 45 Colt for them..
I used to shoot c&b competitions back in the 80's and have a number of these types of revolvers, plus I'm a CW reenactor and pick them up cheap as people leave the hobby.

No I don't carry one of these for Self Defense, I carry one of 3 different pistols/revolvers, a Llama compact (1911 clone) in 45 acp, a Ruger P89 in 9mm or a Ruger LCR in 357 Mag. It depends on where I'm going, what I'm wearing etc. They don't all carry/conceal the same. The 45 acp and the 9mm operate the same as to the safety's, slide locks etc, so training with them is the same, just less recoil from the 9mm. As I get older I've noticed I tend to like less recoil. While I prefer the 45acp (it is what I was trained on in the military) I tend to find myself carrying the 9mm more often as I get older. The LCR is light weight and small and very easy to conceal, but it is limited to 5 shots..


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## Bearfootfarm

beowoulf90 said:


> The 1860 Colt Army Repro is a 45 cal. They make cartridge cylinders in 45 Colt for them, if you want to spend the money.
> Same thing for my 1858 Reminton New Model Army, it's a 45 cal and again they make a cartridge cylinder in 45 Colt for them..
> I used to shoot c&b competitions back in the 80's and have a number of these types of revolvers, plus I'm a CW reenactor and pick them up cheap as people leave the hobby.
> 
> No I don't carry one of these for Self Defense, I carry one of 3 different pistols/revolvers, a Llama compact (1911 clone) in 45 acp, a Ruger P89 in 9mm or a Ruger LCR in 357 Mag. It depends on where I'm going, what I'm wearing etc. They don't all carry/conceal the same. The 45 acp and the 9mm operate the same as to the safety's, slide locks etc, so training with them is the same, just less recoil from the 9mm. As I get older I've noticed I tend to like less recoil. While I prefer the 45acp (it is what I was trained on in the military) I tend to find myself carrying the 9mm more often as I get older. The LCR is light weight and small and very easy to conceal, but it is limited to 5 shots..


All that is interesting, but really has nothing at all to do with the OP's 
*36 Navy* revolver.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

here is a good deal on a carry gun for 210 http://palmettostatearmory.com/taurus-pt111-gen2-9mm-1-111031g2-12.html

gets you 13 rounds 9mm in a very carry able package


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## FarmboyBill

Someone said they didn't think I could draw and cock my Navy as fast as they could do so with an automatic.
I taught myself from the beginning to draw cocked 45yrs ago. I carry it uncocked, but I taught myself to draw it cocked in the holster, BUT even if I didn't, I think I could draw and cock it before someone with an automatic could draw and cock theirs.
With a capper and premade rounds, I think I could reload as quickly as someone with a shell revolver, IF not more quickly. Pete, If you were dropped immeadatly into a crime scene, and you happened to have a 8in blade knife, tell me youd throw it away, so as to not have it. IF under the same situation you had a 1 shot muzzle loader pistol, tell me again youd get rid of it so as to not be found with it on you. Finally, If you had a Navy or Army revolver on you, tell me youd get rid of it so as to not be found with it on you. If you say you would get rid of those arms, then I guess your right, Theres nothing more to talk about as I must be as dumb as you think. lol


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## Texaspredatorhu

Yup, I said it. If you think you can draw cock and fire faster than someone pulling an lcr and just pulling the trigger then you would probably be a professional shooter and not hard up on cash. I carry my 1911 locked and cocked with the safety on and I'll have it drawn and safety off long before yours is cocked regardless of you cocking while you draw my safety is off before it's off my hip. You really think you can beat the thug that already has his out fixing to rob you? You may need a reality check and head check before you tote a smoke pole into a gun fight. Would I get rid of my weapon? No, but it ain't 1885 either, your thugs aren't armed with muzzle loading pistols and peacemakers! Be smarter and be as armed as the perps if not more its common sense!


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## beowoulf90

Bearfootfarm said:


> All that is interesting, but really has nothing at all to do with the OP's
> *36 Navy* revolver.



Oh? 
They load the same, they function the same

One has an octagonal barrel, the other has a round barrel and the calibers are different.

The cylinder hand and spring assembly can be interchangeable (if same manufacturer).

Oh and they do also make conversion cylinders for the 36 cal to 38 Colt..


But of course this has nothing to do with the 1851 Colt Navy Repro in 36 cal..

Some peoples kids (shakes heads)


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## FarmboyBill

Well Tex, If you do that, then your likely in the 1% of people who carry that way. Sorry if I offended. Id say 99 and 99/100s of people who carry DONT carry as you do.


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## Bearfootfarm

beowoulf90 said:


> Oh?
> They load the same, they function the same
> 
> One has an octagonal barrel, the other has a round barrel and the calibers are different.
> 
> The cylinder hand and spring assembly can be interchangeable (if same manufacturer).
> 
> Oh and *they do also make conversion cylinders for the 36 cal to 38 Colt.*.
> 
> 
> But of course this has nothing to do with the 1851 Colt Navy Repro in 36 cal..
> 
> Some peoples kids (shakes heads)


And that brings us back to where we were, trying to use *a .357 bullet in a .375 bore.*

All the other similarities are irrelevant to the actual situation in the OP.


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## Bearfootfarm

FarmboyBill said:


> Someone said they didn't think I could draw and cock my Navy as fast as they could do so with an automatic.
> 
> I taught myself from the beginning to draw cocked 45yrs ago. I carry it uncocked, but I taught myself to draw it cocked in the holster, BUT even if I didn't, I think *I could draw and cock it before someone with an automatic could draw and cock theirs.*
> With a capper and premade rounds, I think *I could reload as quickly as someone with a shell revolver*, IF not more quickly. Pete, If you were dropped immeadatly into a crime scene, and you happened to have a 8in blade knife, tell me youd throw it away, so as to not have it. IF under the same situation you had a 1 shot muzzle loader pistol, tell me again youd get rid of it so as to not be found with it on you. Finally, If you had a Navy or Army revolver on you, tell me youd get rid of it so as to not be found with it on you. If you say you would get rid of those arms, then I guess your right, Theres nothing more to talk about as I must be as dumb as you think. lol


The two statements above are why you don't need to carry a firearm off your own property.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

FarmboyBill said:


> Someone said they didn't think I could draw and cock my Navy as fast as they could do so with an automatic.
> I taught myself from the beginning to draw cocked 45yrs ago. I carry it uncocked, but I taught myself to draw it cocked in the holster, BUT even if I didn't, I think I could draw and cock it before someone with an automatic could draw and cock theirs.
> *With a capper and premade rounds, I think I could reload as quickly as someone with a shell revolver*, IF not more quickly. Pete, If you were dropped immeadatly into a crime scene, and you happened to have a 8in blade knife, tell me youd throw it away, so as to not have it. IF under the same situation you had a 1 shot muzzle loader pistol, tell me again youd get rid of it so as to not be found with it on you. Finally, If you had a Navy or Army revolver on you, tell me youd get rid of it so as to not be found with it on you. If you say you would get rid of those arms, then I guess your right, Theres nothing more to talk about as I must be as dumb as you think. lol


with a capper you could cap as fast as someone with a cartridge revolver and loose ammo the action is the similar

but you need to stuff and compress each then cap , no possible way all other things being equal you could reload a cap and ball even as fast as a single action western style revolver. let alone a double action revolver with tip out cylinder , and we aren't even talking speed loader yet.

when I reload my semi auto , I am not kidding the second mag is in the gun as the first hits the ground and unless I screwed up there was a round in the chamber the hole time so I don't have to hit a slide release or rack the slide 

AND you would have to have some way to keep those paper cartridges perfectly dry and not crush or bend them just opening such a container would take time , then you would have the issue of carrying it and or concealing it.

*NOW FOR THE RECORD* I didn't tell you not to carry the cap an ball if it was the only thing you had or could get , I told you that you should expect to not reload it. AND that to make it reliable it would take a lot of maintenance and regular testing to be sure it was going to be reliable. 

would I through a way a a knife if it was the only thing I had , NO and you are saying IF I was dropped into a crime scene with a cap and ball or a singe shot muzzle loading pistol or the knife would I through them away NO but I would think real hard on how I was going to use or not use them. I would be asking myself questions like who loaded it , how do I know it will work how will this change the situation for the better or the worse.

*NOW YOU MAKE IT SEEM LIKE I DIDN'T HAVE ANOTHER CHOICE , BUT I DO*

I choose to purchase a modern side arm specifically designed to function under the harshest of conditions . but that isn't where I stop 
I ran hundreds of rounds of ammunition through it absolutely trouble free before I expected it to work in a fight. But I didn't stop there.
I practiced with it regularly. I cleaned it regularly , and I tested it every time I went to the range pulling it from it's holster exactly as it was carried for the days , weeks or month since my last range trip and I fired it at a target and made sure that both I and the gun were still ready to go after a period of regular carry and then I loaded the magazine and chamber with fresh self defense ammunition from a very reputable manufacturer. before putting it back in the holster to carry it.


Every one here is trying to help you and you are arguing , and fighting the help.

there is no doubt in my mind that I could get to 12 rounds on target before you if your using a cap and ball or 6 shot revolver. why because I don't even have to reload to get to 12. is that cheating? I don't care.

pistols are also not death rays it is all together possible that you put 2 rounds in someone and they still have the faculties to put a round or two in you.

you do have the very real possibility of making a situation worse by bringing a gun into it , I carry because I want the option to use or not use at my discretion.

I am not saying the only way to carry is with a semi auto , I am saying you might not even get time to reload with a semi auto , less chance with a revolver and loose ammo , Am I saying don't carry spare ammo , no I am not , carry it practice the reload but 6 seconds to reload is an eternity in a 12 second gun fight and I don't think you could reload the cap and ball in 18 seconds 
even if you could reload each chamber in 10 seconds that would be minute unless your looking to load a bomb ready to go off in your hand you need to put the charge in even if it is pre-measured and in nitrated paper then a wad then the ball and ram the ball down , anything less is asking for a kaboom in your hand.



nitrated paper wrapping the whole charge and ball could carry the ignition from another chamber 

either the ball needs to be tight enough that is shaves a ring of lead and gets a wipe of grease over it or you need a wad under the ball between the ball and powder and the ball needs to fit tight.


I encourage you to do some research , if you know someone with a smart phone with timer app or a shot timer get them to time you , what is your real time with a round on target from the buzzer ?


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## Texaspredatorhu

FarmboyBill said:


> Well Tex, If you do that, then your likely in the 1% of people who carry that way. Sorry if I offended. Id say 99 and 99/100s of people who carry DONT carry as you do.


With one in the chamber hammer back and safety on with a 1911?!?! I think you have that backwards because that is the only safe way to carry a loaded 1911. Carrying one half cocked or hammer down on a loaded chamber is just dumb and still adds a step to get the gun up and running. Do some more research before you speak for 99.9% of people. My safety is on always until it is drawn and that comes off while coming out of the holster. I'm not offended, I'm more in disbelief that you think you are that good. I'd like to see you reload your smoke pole 6 gun as fast as someone with a s and w 689 for instance, you ain't doing it.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Texaspredatorhu said:


> With one in the chamber hammer back and safety on with a 1911?!?! I think you have that backwards because that is the only safe way to carry a loaded 1911. Carrying one half cocked or hammer down on a loaded chamber is just dumb and still adds a step to get the gun up and running. Do some more research before you speak for 99.9% of people. My safety is on always until it is drawn and that comes off while coming out of the holster. I'm not offended, I'm more in disbelief that you think you are that good. I'd like to see you reload your smoke pole 6 gun as fast as someone with a s and w 689 for instance, you ain't doing it.



if he is half as good as he thinks he is I know of a wild west show that would hire him as a trick shooter so that he could buy a modern gun and be 10 times faster.

there is a reason every major competitive shooting organization has a revolver class an auto class because when you get past the capacity of a revolver your at a serious disadvantage to the autos.
even auto against auto the guy with the semi loaded with 10 rounds looses to the guy who is carrying 24 in one magazine as soon as the round count for the stage goes over 11.


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## beowoulf90

Bearfootfarm said:


> And that brings us back to where we were, trying to use *a .357 bullet in a .375 bore.*
> 
> All the other similarities are irrelevant to the actual situation in the OP.



So where are you getting the .375 bore on a 36 cal C&B, 

The ball is that size because in C&B revolvers the ball is larger than the bore, unlike muzzle loading rifles and single shot pistols that use a patched ball.. Where you use a .10 patch and undersized ball.

When you ram the ball on a C&B you should get a lead ring left on the outside of the cylinder. This helps in sealing the chamber..
But I recommend using bore butter or crisco / lard to seal the chamber. 
Like I said before chain fires can be deadly.

Don't believe me?

Look it up you will see they sell the conversion cylinders and that they are safe..


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## beowoulf90

On another note:

There is no way you can load a C&B as quick as someone with a semi or a cartridge revolver. Even if you had a conversion cylinder you still have to remove the back cover of the cylinder to load cartridges..
Even if you have pre-rolled rounds & an inline capper. 
If you truly can do it.

Please post the video of it. I have to see it to believe it... Other wise I have to call Horse hockey..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

.375 is because most reproduction cap and ball manufacturers say that is what they want you loading in their manual https://www.uberti-usa.com/sites/default/files/originals/product-manuals/black_powder_revolvers.pdf

like Uberti

some calibers measure to the lands cap and ball revolvers did this so a 44 cap and ball needs a 451 or 454 or 457 bullet or ball depending on manufacturer 

36 are really .375

for cartridge guns 
38 S&W was .361
and 38spl .357


if you use a hollow base was cutter 38spl in the conversion or the skirt opens up enough to catch the rifling the other option is a bullet with a base that seats in the case but the bullet is as large as the case sort of like 22lr


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## FarmboyBill

In a 45 frontier frame pistol, Colt or Rem, What do you think im doing while one is ejecting the empties, and reloading? The shell shooter has to reach down into his belt to pull each individual shell and reload it. I should be able to cap 6 with a capper as fast or faster. Yes, ill lose time reloading the round as I have to reach down for each round, and ram each home, but the shell shooter will loose time ejecting the empties.
If im not as fast, Im in the ball park.
As for how fast I am, Im not 1/2 as fast as I was when I was say 30, but I can haul it out dang quick without using a tie down.
My boys church had a Halloween deal where they set up stages of 4 to 6 guys dressed old west at night. Each stage had a fire going. The church had hay racks and people from all round would come and take a ride through the grounds. We put on short skits depicting something in the Bible. Afterwards, and ive done this 4 times now, Me and my boy would draw and fire a cap at each other. he has yet to beat me, tho the last time we may have tied. Hes 40. IF I bought a shortened barrel from Dixie, id probably still be as fast as I ever was.


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## FarmboyBill

IF people are talking about different round sizes cause I mentioned id like to have a 71 colt open top 38. Im not thinking of the differences in the round dia as much as im thinking of the same feel as the Navy


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## FarmboyBill

IF I were dropped into a crime situation, speed wouldn't have anything much to do with it as id be looking for a hiding place before I decided to get aggressive, IF I DID


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

if you polish the chambers on a 44mag and keep them clean , and don't load to hot , you open the loading gate tip the gun up and roll the cylinder with the hand then it is just dropping rounds in but that is apples to oranges 

because even on my 38spl colt detective special clone that you can't get a speed loader in it is roll the crane out dump 6 then start putting new cartridges in 
and that is slow 

speed it up a bit with a speed strip this holds the 6 indivigual rounds in a row like a strait line capper that holds 38 and 357 rounds 

your talking about 150 year old tools in a modern world 

carry what you want , and finding a hiding place is good idea then only use your gun if they come looking for you and you have the element of surprise 
but the reload , seriously measure out some speed loaders lay it all out on the table and give it a try timing yourself , under a minute would be doing good to load and cap 6 even with speed loaders 


when I say reload a mag I mean 17 rounds of 9mm or 15 rounds of 40S&W in a second

however fast you are your faster with better tools 

Jerry Miculek the fastest revolver guy in the work can beat his own record with a semi auto with half the work. you just have to move less and movement takes time


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## FarmboyBill

I carried a 1911 the last time I was in the army as a Sgt in a Red Eye Stinger Unit. It DID have 3 ways of stopping its firing. one was the grip, One was pushing in on the barrel, but ---- if I can remember the third. I don't remember a safety button, but that's been 32yrs ago, so what I do or don't remember don't count for much.


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## blanket

FBB carry what you want. Nobody makes pre made loads for your 36. Best of luck to you if you ever need it


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## blanket

FarmboyBill said:


> I carried a 1911 the last time I was in the army as a Sgt in a Red Eye Stinger Unit. It DID have 3 ways of stopping its firing. one was the grip, One was pushing in on the barrel, but ---- if I can remember the third. I don't remember a safety button, but that's been 32yrs ago, so what I do or don't remember don't count for much.


 A 1911 colt has a grip safety and a safety that locks the slide and blocks the trigger. The safest way to carry a 1911 is cocked and locked. Pushing on the end of the slide will cause any auto loading pistol to not fire, but if someone is that close it is hand to hand. No way in heck can anyone reload a C&B as fast as a cartridge handgun.


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## Bearfootfarm

beowoulf90 said:


> So *where are you getting the .375 bore on a 36 cal C&B, *
> 
> The ball is that size because in C&B revolvers the ball is larger than the bore, unlike muzzle loading rifles and single shot pistols that use a patched ball.. Where you use a .10 patch and undersized ball.
> 
> When you ram the ball on a C&B you should get a lead ring left on the outside of the cylinder. This helps in sealing the chamber..
> But I recommend using bore butter or crisco / lard to seal the chamber.
> Like I said before chain fires can be deadly.
> 
> Don't believe me?
> 
> Look it up you will see they sell the conversion cylinders and that they are safe..


Of course they are "safe" *if *you use the lowest powered loads, because the bullets don't seal the bores. You sacrifice accuracy though.

I already posted a source for my numbers about the bore size.

You still keep talking about lots of things that have nothing to do with a 36 caliber revolver.


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## FarmboyBill

Well blanket, When I get some rounds made, ill time myself. If your right and im nowhere in the ball park, Ill admit it. BUT time starts when both types are fired empty. Agreed?


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## Bearfootfarm

> BUT time starts when both types are fired empty. Agreed?


Your fallacy is thinking the bad guy will be carrying a single action revolver that requires ejecting and loading only one round at a time.

Most will have a semi with anywhere from 7-15 rounds or a 6 shot double action revolver with a swing out cylinder.

Thinking there will be a need to reload is also a fallacy.

The typical number of shots fired is 3.

Again, you need to resist the urge to carry a gun off your own property because it will only lead to trouble.

What you don't know *can* hurt you.


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## FarmboyBill

I disagree with you that burglers, robbers, rapists ONLY carry autos. Do you think that when they rob a house and find a revolver that they throw it away and go somewhere else? I think those kinds use whatever they can find and is cheap.
Yes, hit men and mobsters likely carry autos.
I said before and agree with you here that 3 is a likely number of shots being fired in a situation.
I think that carrying reloads is a sense of security rather than the belief that they may actually have to use reloads. Id bet most people with the auto capacity that you say STILL carry reloads when doing something bad.
IF you ever watch Lt Kenda, Homicide Hunter, you will see that he carrys a auto shoulder holster with the gun on one side and reload pouches on the other.


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## Texaspredatorhu

BFF said MOST will carry an auto OR a double action swing open revolver NOT a single action with a loading gate or BP. Is a thief going turn down stealing a gun? Doubtful. Are they going to carry a peacemaker the odds are probably not in your favor. 

So because I carry an auto I am a hit man or mobster now? You must live in a different world than me because my world doesn't have thugs with cap and ball 6 shooters and reload them faster than someone with a swing open revolver. 

A TV show? That's what your going to use as a comparison? I carry a backup mag should my gun have a stoppage I can drop one and put in a fresh one and rack it just to make sure it's cleared. I also practice shooting from concealed regularly and reloading with a mag off my hip. Military training has beat that into my head but if you don't use it you loose it. 

Once again if you were half as fast as you think you would be a professional shooter and not had up on cash, and with that being said I know you aren't practicing daily or weekly for that matter to stay that good if your that strapped on cash. 

Time starts when the first shot goes, fire all 6, reload and fire all 6 again and the time stops. If you truly can beat a modern double action wheel gun I'll hang up my autos and start carrying my TC Contender!


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## Texaspredatorhu

This guy probably sits there and does this all evening watching tv.
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VeqLL2xuSQs[/ame]

This would be you if you were as fast as you think
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lLk1v5bSFPw[/ame]


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## FarmboyBill

I didn't ASSUME A L L people who carried autos were hit men or mobsters. I assumed that all who WERE hitmen or mobsters carried autos.

As to practice, whenever I watch a western I practice with the guns. Cross draw, drawing left gun left hand, same with right. Whenever I get up to go to the fridge or wherever else, ill practice with it, buts facing forward, or buts facing at around a [email protected] down.
It seems that 22s and 25s are favorites of both hit men and punks. They come either way. 22s mostly revolvers, 25s mostly autos.
Your saying im slow, so go by my rule or no go. I sure aint giving someone who is likely faster from the git go a edge. lol
AND
Im not saying im anywhere near a pro. Im saying im as fast or faster than 75% of people who own guns like mine.


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## Texaspredatorhu

FarmboyBill said:


> I didn't ASSUME A L L people who carried autos were hit men or mobsters. I assumed that all who WERE hitmen or mobsters carried autos.
> 
> As to practice, whenever I watch a western I practice with the guns. Cross draw, drawing left gun left hand, same with right. Whenever I get up to go to the fridge or wherever else, ill practice with it, buts facing forward, or buts facing at around a [email protected] down.
> It seems that 22s and 25s are favorites of both hit men and punks. They come either way. 22s mostly revolvers, 25s mostly autos.
> Your saying im slow, so go by my rule or no go. I sure aint giving someone who is likely faster from the git go a edge. lol
> AND
> Im not saying im anywhere near a pro. Im saying im as fast or faster than 75% of people who own guns like mine.


if we get to change the rules then I'm fast as any pro in the world too. You are giving anyone that has a LOADED gun an edge on you every time you carry that smoke pole wheel gun. It's a single action so like you said you are carrying hammer down on an empty chamber if I assume correctly. So someone with a Glock, xd, 1911, etc etc that has one in the chamber and doesn't have to "cock" their auto will put you in a world of hurt all day. The modern double action wheel gun shooter will ONLY have to pull the trigger giving them the edge on you once again. 

Guns like yours are obsolete and there is a very very small niche. So being 75% faster than people with guns like yours makes you slower than 99.9999% of those with autos and 97% slower than those with modern wheel guns. 

***not actual figures***


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## blanket

FBB I was an A class shooter in USPSA Limited division for several years. Trust me I would have no problem reloading my 1911 several times while you stoke your C&B


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## Bearfootfarm

FarmboyBill said:


> *I disagree with you that burglers, robbers, rapists ONLY carry autos.* Do you think that when they rob a house and find a revolver that they throw it away and go somewhere else? I think those kinds use whatever they can find and is cheap.
> Yes, hit men and mobsters likely carry autos.
> I said before and agree with you here that 3 is a likely number of shots being fired in a situation.
> I think that carrying reloads is a sense of security rather than the belief that they may actually have to use reloads. Id bet most people with the auto capacity that you say STILL carry reloads when doing something bad.
> IF you ever watch Lt Kenda, Homicide Hunter, you will see that he carrys a auto shoulder holster with the gun on one side and reload pouches on the other.


I didn't say that at all.
Don't get your gun knowledge from a TV show.


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## blanket

FBB is more than clueless, hope he never gets hurt


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## FarmboyBill

Yeah and alotta u are taking parts of what I say, and using it differently than what I said it.
Tex, show me where I carry the hammer down on a empty chamber? I carry the hammer BETWEEN 2 loaded chambers. That's just to carry it. IF I felt the need, id cock it in either a holster or my waistband, ready for use. I only have to pull the trigger.
Fast or slow really has no connection in a crime scene. The dedication to get out and away, or get involved that counts.

Blanket, I have no doubt your are right.

Bear. Whaddia I supposed to do. Go to Tulsa PD and ask the detectives to lift their coats to get an accurate reading?? lol


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

dude you watch to much TV and TV people don't live in gun reality very often 

shoulder holsters are a bad idea you muzzle sweep every one in the room when you draw usually including yourself.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

dude you watch to much TV and TV people don't live in gun reality very often 

shoulder holsters are a bad idea you muzzle sweep every one in the room when you draw usually including yourself.


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## Texaspredatorhu

FarmboyBill said:


> Yeah and alotta u are taking parts of what I say, and using it differently than what I said it.
> Tex, show me where I carry the hammer down on a empty chamber? I carry the hammer BETWEEN 2 loaded chambers. That's just to carry it. IF I felt the need, id cock it in either a holster or my waistband, ready for use. I only have to pull the trigger.
> Fast or slow really has no connection in a crime scene. The dedication to get out and away, or get involved that counts.
> 
> Blanket, I have no doubt your are right.
> 
> Bear. Whaddia I supposed to do. Go to Tulsa PD and ask the detectives to lift their coats to get an accurate reading?? lol


No I said assume. I was wrong there BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO COCK AND DRAW. Speed has everything to do with it. Recognizing the situation quickly so you know how to react. After that part you still have to decide whether to engage or cut and run. Should you choose to engage your probably too late by that point. Good luck with whatever you do and have a blessed day.


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## Bearfootfarm

FarmboyBill said:


> Yeah and alotta u are taking parts of what I say, and using it differently than what I said it.
> Tex, show me where I carry the hammer down on a empty chamber? I carry the hammer BETWEEN 2 loaded chambers. That's just to carry it. *IF I felt the need, id cock it in either a holster or my waistband, ready for use.* I only have to pull the trigger.
> *Fast or slow really has no connection in a crime scene*. The dedication to get out and away, or get involved that counts.
> 
> Blanket, I have no doubt your are right.
> 
> Bear. Whaddia I supposed to do. Go to Tulsa PD and ask the detectives to lift their coats to get *an accurate reading*?? lol


I gave you a highly accurate assessment.
You just keep wanting to argue about it.

You really have no business carrying a gun in public.


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## FarmboyBill

Ah well, uall probably right, an im likely wong. Been wong before, used to it. Don't know how I lived to be wong for near 70yrs. Lord loves drunks and dummies I guess. lol


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