# which would be more useful



## minister man (Jan 14, 2007)

On a small homestead with just a few acres but a little work that needs done, which would be the most useful, strongest?

1) team of miniature horses

2) a single Hilfiger 

3) single ox


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

a single halflinger , as you can use cultivater plows between rows pull carts and ride it . the minis can't fit between rows ,to small to ride and aren't pulling much . the 900 pound plow horses were the go to draft animal on small farms , oxen are very slow .


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

I agree with arnie.


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

I know that you didn't mention this as an option. Have you thought about a Sulfolk? They are feed efficient, tremendous temperament, around 15 hands or a little more, 1600 lbs, smart and they are "bred for the furrow". They have, very possibly, the best feet of any domestic horse.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

minister man said:


> On a small homestead with just a few acres but a little work that needs done, which would be the most useful, strongest?
> 
> 1) team of miniature horses
> 
> ...


I'd go with a small ferguson, to20 or to30 or ford 8 or 9n. They can be found cheap, don't have to be fed when you're not using them! They are perfect for small acreages, have three point hitch which makes implements readily available for a huge variety of chores. Trying to find horse, Ox drawn equipment/parts can be a nightmare unto itself. Nobody makes that stuff anymore, harness alone is costly much less trying to find a a plow share or landslide for that antique plow you find at an auction. There's a reason tractors put horses in the barn. They are simply far more practicle. If you're semi wealthy and just interested in an expensive hobby that's great.... Go with whichever critter strikes your fancy. If you're like most and looking to supplement your living costs by mini farming and cash has a value.... Look around and find a decent small tractor with three point hitch in good condition.


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## crehberg (Mar 16, 2008)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I'd go with a small ferguson, to20 or to30 or ford 8 or 9n. They can be found cheap, don't have to be fed when you're not using them! They are perfect for small acreages, have three point hitch which makes implements readily available for a huge variety of chores. Trying to find horse, Ox drawn equipment/parts can be a nightmare unto itself. Nobody makes that stuff anymore, harness alone is costly much less trying to find a a plow share or landslide for that antique plow you find at an auction. There's a reason tractors put horses in the barn. They are simply far more practicle. If you're semi wealthy and just interested in an expensive hobby that's great.... Go with whichever critter strikes your fancy. If you're like most and looking to supplement your living costs by mini farming and cash has a value.... Look around and find a decent small tractor with three point hitch in good condition.


YH...you took the words right out of my mouth!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

The OP didn't indicate a tractor in his list...

I know nothing about oxen, and of the two remaining choices, I'd go with an old style Halflinger. Horse drawn equipment is readily available all over the country, and there are companies that specialize in it. 

I do agree with CIW about Suffolks, or draft crosses. I've seen some very nice Belgian/Morgan and Belgian/Quarter Horse crosses as well. I think these are bigger horses than the OP wants tho.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

A single animal is a lonely animal......some tolerate it better than others, most animals like/need to be paired IMHO.

Lots of interaction and having other types of animals can mitigate this some and certain animals seem fine when solo, kind of like people...lol. Most animals are pack/herd …..wild horses congregate together, not sure about the history characteristics of the one you will select.

Just something to keep in mind,...…. there is no shortage of single solo animal examples out there that people do, so more than one is not mandatory.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

The only thing I can offer regarding the animals is that miniature horses are among the most contrary-natured creatures on earth.

Although the tractors are extraneous to the question at hand, I would recommend against the named Ford's. The 3 point hitch will not function without the pto engaged, neither of which function with the clutch depressed. You don't have to go much newer to get live hydraulics and live pto which are serious game-changers.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

A few acres is not enough to feed a large animal you would have to augment their feed and as posted all the implements are old and parts non existent and they take space and maintenance so why not put all that work and money into a real workhorse a tractor they don't get tired temperamental or sick in the same parlance I don't feel sorry for a tractor. large animals require a vet a tractor a mechanic so it is money out either way but a tractor is more flexible you can attach backhoes buckets post hole diggers move concrete block stone and generate power with a power stub an animal can't. 

A friend has a Mahindra and he likes it he was very familiar with all the heavy equipment and worked on them and considered Mahindra a good deal for it's price point. he worked it enough to make his money back doing tilling for neighbors gardens collecting fire wood given him moving and leveling dirt drives and anything he was called on to do. and many times he got some of what he moved for a share.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

IndyDave said:


> The only thing I can offer regarding the animals is that miniature horses are among the most contrary-natured creatures on earth.
> 
> Although the tractors are extraneous to the question at hand, I would recommend against the named Ford's. The 3 point hitch will not function without the pto engaged, neither of which function with the clutch depressed. You don't have to go much newer to get live hydraulics and live pto which are serious game-changers.


Agreed, live power is a giant step forward. My 9n fords three point hitch worked fine without the pto engaged, as did my to20 and to30. The difference to me was price. $500 for my 9n. $1000 for the fergusons, my ferguson 35 while much handier to operate due to live power cost me $4000. I now have added a much better tractor to my collection, it's a new holland tn65. $14k! $7000 for the bare tractor, plus $7000 to have the brand new out of the box front end loader installed.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Agreed, live power is a giant step forward. My 9n fords three point hitch worked fine without the pto engaged, as did my to20 and to30. The difference to me was price. $500 for my 9n. $1000 for the fergusons, my ferguson 35 while much handier to operate due to live power cost me $4000. I now have added a much better tractor to my collection, it's a new holland tn65. $14k! $7000 for the bare tractor, plus $7000 to have the brand new out of the box front end loader installed.


How did your 9N's 3 point work without the pto engaged when the hydraulic pump drives odd of the pto unless it has been modified with an engine-driven pump at some point? Even if so, it isn't very likely he would find one similarly modified.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

In my opinion this is why the horse (and other livestock) forums are dead. A legitimate question is asked, huge assumptions made, and the OP's question is lost in the mess.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Irish Pixie said:


> In my opinion this is why the horse (and other livestock) forums are dead. A legitimate question is asked, huge assumptions made, and the OP's question is lost in the mess.


Well said.

Back to the original question, while I do not have personal experience with draft animals, my memory is being refreshed from my study of history. As explored by Jean Gimpel in his book The Medieval Machine, there was a revolution in agriculture much of which turned on the discovery that while horses couldn't produce the sheer strength of oxen, they could work faster hence get more work per unit time done, particularly in terms of plowing. They also ate substantially less, which was significant particularly in terms of feeding during non-working time. Overall, the horses penciled out much better.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

IndyDave said:


> How did your 9N's 3 point work without the pto engaged when the hydraulic pump drives odd of the pto unless it has been modified with an engine-driven pump at some point? Even if so, it isn't very likely he would find one similarly modified.


The pto engages behind the hydrolic pump. It can either be locked to the engine via the pump drive shaft or to the final drive to keep it synced with ground speed. If the engine is running, clutch is engaged the pump is pumping. When you engage the pto it locks the two shafts together just behind the pump. Same setup on the fergies. That's standard factory design. I did modify my to20 at one point so I could get more control on the lift arms. Out of the factory they were pretty much either up, or down, no way to hold them somewhere in between. Using a small pulley, some sheet metal and a bit of aviation cable I made a gizmo that let me set the lift wherever I wanted it and it would stay put. Shortly after my father invented that system both ford and fergy developed different systems to accomplish the same thing. This gizmo had nothing to do with the pto, it was strictly a control valve thing.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

If you are a good animal trainer, any of the options will work. a single large horse would be handier than the oxen or the mini's. 
oxen were used back when, because horses weren't affordable and most homesteads had cows.
all of the animals mentioned will die someday. so you will need replacements. 
horses are expensive, not even considering the purchase price. feed, vet, maintenance
I overlooked Fords after owning one. I found a 1955 Oliver 55. live hydraulics. more HP .. about the same size as a Ford 9n. 
biggest drawback , the parts for it are way more expensive than all the other Oliver models.
buy a mid/mini tractor if you can afford it.
eventually the accessories will become less expensive as people start selling them used.
a 3point tool bar can be modified many ways.
I can use mine for chisel plowing the garden. single or double row cultivator, and hilling discs for potatoes.
....jiminwisc......


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Animals for work are not the cheapest easiest productive economical or reliabalistic way to do anything...... otherwise they would be used more. Its strictly a novelty in most cases and when dealing with novel or nostalgia all reasonable logic and costs are tossed to the side as considerations.

There are viable uses of them, but mostly out of no other options, availability as in they already have them or other considerations...mostly in other countries and mostly third world.

Nothing wrong with using them at all.....but it is certainly not money saving or easier in most cases...unless it is common or already available in your area or there is simply no other choice.


Either way, have fun, I always thought it would be cool and nostalgic to use them...….but the costs and effort has always made me not commit.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I can skid logs, till a garden, grind corn, cut hay, pull a wagon, and ride to town to pick up my mail. All with a single mule. He is twelve years old, has never been shod, never seen a vet, and never needed a pound of grain in his life. I can shoot off his back, pack out the meat, and he has taken me home in the dark, when I couldn't see my hand in front of my face. Barring some unforeseen accident, he will still be going when I am dead and gone. If I wanted to I could purchase brand new horse drawn farm equipment from half a dozen different manufactures.

With two good mules, I could work a small farm. Produce enough surplus food, to sell or trade with my neighbors. All with less of a carbon footprint than the average lawn mower. I will admit that a tractor is a mighty handy thing to have. Not everybody has the skill set to handle a good mule.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> If you are a good animal trainer, any of the options will work. a single large horse would be handier than the oxen or the mini's.
> oxen were used back when, because horses weren't affordable and most homesteads had cows.
> all of the animals mentioned will die someday. so you will need replacements.
> horses are expensive, not even considering the purchase price. feed, vet, maintenance
> ...


I may be able to help. My go to guy for parts works for a dealership in Iowa and his personal specialty is Oliver and to some extent most other AGCO orphans. Tom's number is 712-324-4871. He has helped me a lot with my 550, 1800, and New Idea hay rake.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

minister man said:


> On a small homestead with just a few acres but a little work that needs done, which would be the most useful, strongest?
> 
> 1) team of miniature horses
> 
> ...


The halflinger would be the most useful, an ox would probably be stronger and could eat feed that would kill a horse. If you wanted to stay small, to keep the feed bill down, a team of Shetland ponies can do a lot of work. On the other hand a team of halflingers, would be the best of all. Big enough to pull a lot of weight, and can be ridden by a adult.


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## minister man (Jan 14, 2007)

I have had two tractors. I bought an international 275 with a front end loader that was the same age as me. I could almost not steer it, since it steered so hard. It started sometimes, but it needed a new carburetor that was no longer available, and then the clutch went in it. I am not the kind of guy that can fix mechanical things. I traded it for a david brown, with no loader.... I had problems with the hydraulics, then it wouldn't start. I took it to the garage and waited months to get it back...because the guy had to fix all the tractors that the "real" farmers needed first. Then I was making payments on my tractor, paying someone to plow the snow in my driveway, and still had to pay the guy to fix the tractor. I am not a mechanic, I don't weld, ( repairing wheel chains), so tractors are not going to work for me. 

I am 51 years old and starting to think that it is time to stop trying to homestead. There is no economical way to do anything.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Minister man, you're obviously going about it the wrong way. Yes, I agree, most have to have some sort of job in addition to what the homestead produces. But you can still homestead. Heck, I was 61 when I bought my land and went from there. Maybe you need to cross post this in homesteading questions and see what answers you get.
What have you done outside of getting a couple tractors?


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

Forget the mini's as virtually worthless for any kind of work.. The Halflinger would make most sense.

An ox - hard to find - you'd prolly have to raise and train one yourself. How much time do you have? How much space? They can mature out as HUGE depending on the breed.

You don't say what work you need done. That would be helpful. Plowing any kind of serious ground would take a team if you have small horses like Halflingers. Also mowing. Even a small (4 foot?) ground-driven sickle-type mower takes some real horsepower. And what others have said....which ever animal you choose...you shouldn't keep just one - for their peace of mind and the sake of your fences.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Oxen all day. Much easier to find than horses without issues. Every dairy barn is basically giving them away, every day. The added benefit is that they are much easier on your acreage, less yanking grass out by the roots, making toilet areas, cavorting around with unforgiving, non-cloven hoofs. Added benefit is that if you go wrong with training, or get an animal with behavioral issues, there are no social hangups surrounding putting the animal that trained you how to train the next animal in the freezer. Also, you can put him in the freezer if you decide you want a tractor. If freezer is not an option, a bovine is also easier and quicker to turn into cash, because of the whole social hangups thing. You need to be trained to work an animal as much as the animal needs training. There is no better starting point than a day old calf. There are broke oxen out there, you just need to know where to look. And the smaller breeds are plenty strong for small tasks. You could get a Jersey for basically nothing, and do everything you need.


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