# Urine mixed with peat & sawdust



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Just an idea running through my head. Would human urine mixed with peat and sawdust (actually wood stove pellets) be ok for use in the garden? I know the peat can cause ph issues if enough is used. That's not a problem, I've got wood ash and lime is easy to get here, so I'm not concerned with the ph issue. I was just wondering if the urine and sawdust/peat would be good for the garden. I would think the nitrogen in the urine would balance out with the carbon in the sawdust. Plus it would save from flushing the toilet so much. 

Just looking for alternative fertilizer/organic amendments since I no longer have the duck poo to add to the garden.


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## Betho (Dec 27, 2006)

Well I would imagine it would be fine, since all 3 separately would be good. You might want to compost it first though?


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Unless you're drinking gallons of water, your urine would run at least 15% nitrogen. If the pellets could become so saturated that they are on the verge of reverting back to sawdust, then it could go into the soil. But, it may also have 2% salt. Personally, most of mine ends up in the compost tumbler during months when I can get to it without putting on 3 layers of clothing. 

Martin


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

I'd suggest testing it in a small portion of your garden, with a control set near it. Pee on a few plants and not the ones next to it and tell us how it works. I've pee'd on a few tomatoe plants before and they seemed to come up fairly well.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Don't do it on the plants. They can't handle the salt. But nothing wrong with using urine as a side-dressing source of urea. 

Martin


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## oberhaslikid (May 13, 2002)

I had a new raised bed started last year and placed heavy newspapaer in the bottom . Then a bag of leaves that had been mulched. Then on top I added the wood pellets I used all winter in my Chick box . Where I raised chicks all their littler was mixed in the sawdust from the pellets.Every time I cleaned the box it got dumped on the bed. I added some lime and planted my extra tomatoes in it last year and if they made it Ok. They did pretty well .I was surprised. I say go for it.


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## mainegirl (Feb 21, 2011)

Danaus29....check out the last page or so of Extreme Composting....Forerunner and i had this same conversation.......ask him....


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## buffalocreek (Oct 19, 2007)

I dilute urine 7:1 before putting on plants.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Danaus29 said:


> Just an idea running through my head. Would human urine mixed with peat and sawdust (actually wood stove pellets) be ok for use in the garden? I know the peat can cause ph issues if enough is used. That's not a problem, I've got wood ash and lime is easy to get here, so I'm not concerned with the ph issue. I was just wondering if the urine and sawdust/peat would be good for the garden. I would think the nitrogen in the urine would balance out with the carbon in the sawdust. Plus it would save from flushing the toilet so much.
> 
> Just looking for alternative fertilizer/organic amendments since I no longer have the duck poo to add to the garden.


Compost the urine with the peat and sawdust.
The result will be beautiful.
Don't mix lime or wood ash in that compost.
Do apply lime or wood ash directly to the soil where you want that pH adjustment.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Here is a very good study of the use of human urine in gardening and agriculture: http://www.ecosanres.org/pdf_files/ESR2010-1-PracticalGuidanceOnTheUseOfUrineInCropProduction.pdf

As a social comment, it is interesting that this topic has not been discussed much on the North American continent. In most of our lifetimes,_ manufactured _nitrogen has just been too cheap and available. Also, until recently(with the advent of CAFE meat production), animal wastes and urine were used extensively for ag production, making human sources unthought of. Seems that the times, they are a'changin', huh? 

In the other parts of the world, the saying goes:"one family's yearly urine is worth two bags of fertilizer".

geo


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Forerunner, good point about not mixing the 2. It's never a good idea to wet down wood ashes unless you want to make lye. 

I don't like the idea of using synthetic fertilizers because of the damage they can do to the microbial life in the soil. 

Besides, my sewer bill last quarter was $183!!!! It's getting too expensive to flush the toilet. I can't squat on the compost bin or the tomato plants, I don't live out in the middle of nowhere. LOL We were thinking of setting a bucket in the basement and using that for liquid waste only. 

If it wasn't for the increasing use of the newest persistant herbicide I would put an ad on craigslist for manure. A dumptruck load of horse poo would give my nasty neighbors a heart attack. As satisfying as that would be I don't really want the herbicide risk.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

It would be liberating to live in a world not ruled by the often naive sensitivities of neighbors.....


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I let DH pee in my compost pile. It seems to qulech some strange man urge to pee in the out of doors and it's better then peeing off the porch. *SIGH*


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

i am sorry but i am trying not to get grossed out here. i know alot of the septic system places around here dump on farmers fields--poo is poo but i guess urine just doesnt seem right. it must get hot enough to kill any germs cuz there are germs in poo but----eeeeeeeew. sorry, i wasnt going to post this but maybe i did it for some education that will come back at me.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Mare, urine is sterile. You only have bacteria in your urine if you have an infection.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

....or.....soon after it hits the pile, steaming profusely....soaking in....making microbes happy on a grand scale. 
It's best on a clear night, stars sparkling brightly--maybe even a touch of frost.


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## mainegirl (Feb 21, 2011)

see that? it's Forerunner-ese...who else could be that poetic about peeing on compost......touch of frost....nice!...:0


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I don't get it, really..... 
There's just something about crawling out of a very comfortable, warm bed in the middle of a January night, stepping out onto that cold porch and on over to the pile, frost or even light snow crunching under my bare feet, and relieving my bladder's best efforts into that nutrient-phenomenal, quirk partnership between man and nature that we've come to refer to as the _compost pile_.

Of course, the entire process is much less intense on a balmy, 80 degree August night, but the microbes don't notice.


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

I peed on one row of corn last yr and it grew a ft taller and longer ears. Yes it was yellow corn.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Somehow I doubt my neighbors would appreciate looking out thier windows to see me squating over corn lol!


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

NickieL said:


> Somehow I doubt my neighbors would appreciate looking out thier windows to see me squating over corn lol!


 I disagree. If I looked out my window and saw that I'd laugh till my ribs hurt.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

I use a sawdust toilet as a urinal to help save on water. I compost it before using it on the garden. The last place I lived all I had was a sawdust toilet and after two years of composting, it wade the absolute best compost I've ever used. I would think having the peat mixed in would be a bonus.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

http://www.liquidgoldbook.com/

http://www.dirtcheapbuilder.com/humhanii.html

There are concerns with pathogens .... like hepatitis A and others

Composting should be done properly.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I did find this on pathogens in urine:
http://weblife.org/humanure/chapter7_2.html
Not as dangerous as wildlife poo over which I have no control. None of us are sick or have any serious health issues and I won't be putting the results on root crops (good way to plan crop rotation ) so it should be easy to implement. Dd has said she will not go into the dark damp basement to pee in a bucket but would be willing to pee in a bucket placed in the bathtub. 

Another way to look at it is this: which is safer, compost the urine and spread it on the soil or just dilute it and dump it into the nation's water supply? Since we have a central sewer system our waste is now "treated" and then discharged into a nearby stream. Pretty poor way of doing things, IMO.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

You can buy cheaper stuff than pellet stove pellets to add to your garden.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

That and, with a little ingenuity, it can all be had for free.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I've been inspired. I'm going to pee in a bucket.


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## Goat Servant (Oct 26, 2007)

In China they use human waste on their gardens. Around her it's cow. You know it's spring when the farmers spray it on their fields.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Goat Servant said:


> In China they use human waste on their gardens. Around her it's cow. You know it's spring when the farmers spray it on their fields.


Either is great after composting.

I wouldn't apply any kind of manure uncomposted, save the dry chicken manure/bedding on the strawberry patch in the fall.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Goat Servant said:


> In China they use human waste on their gardens. Around her it's cow. You know it's spring when the farmers spray it on their fields.


In germany too, I remember being stuck in traffic as a kid behind them night soil trucks they use to fertilize the crops.


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## used2bcool13 (Sep 24, 2007)

I am definitely inspired by everyone, I am going to try diluted urine on something this year, err... maybe not near the leafy greens.

My compost piles aren't "done" yet either maybe they need a little more moisture or "communing". 

I think this is a great thread and also think that it is the height of stupidity to waste so much clean drinking water flushing human excrement. I don't think I am able to think further than the composting urine thing but the conversation is envigorating.


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## laughaha (Mar 4, 2008)

Oh boy do you know when the farmers are "s****ing the fields" (that's what it's called up here). They use the manure straight from the lagoons and it's RIPE. Nose burns till it rains (which is usually right after they are done), but I'll happily take that over all the chemical fertilizers.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

oregon woodsmok and Forerunner, so what would you use to absorb the urine which would be free or cheaper? Keep in mind that direct application is a no-no and I am not willing to have a bucket of just pee setting around until it can be used. I don't need the extra moisture here anyway. What I would use for an absorbant cannot look trashy or be able to be blown away. It also cannot be too labor intensive. I have a lot of other projects which need to be finished and not enough time to do them all. I can get bags of stove pellets for around $5 for 50 pounds, much cheaper than the water usage for flushing urine. Peat is pricey but it keeps the smell down and I have been buying it for trees and bushes which need more acidic soil than I currently have.

I did think about using shredded leaves but after trying that in the rabbit cages and having to scrape out the smelly mess which almost immediately blew away after being placed in the garden I am not willing to try leaves again. Especially not for something which will be setting in my house until I have a full bucket. Cardboard dust would be wonderful but I can't touch that at any price here.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Sawdust is KING.

Do you have any woodworker friends ?
They may have quite a supply of delightfully dry and fine sawdust.
Failing that, is there a sawmill close ?
They'd likely laugh and let you have a pickup load or less for free if you tipped your hand of insanity and told them what it was for.....

Oh, and...... we do make our own house toilet sawdust with a chainsaw.
You can make a five gallon bucket of really absorbent stuff in just a few typical cuts if you lay a tarp underneath your log, etc. to catch the material....


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

[[[[.....oregon woodsmok....... so what would you use to absorb the urine which would be free or cheaper? .....]]]]]]

What are you really using it for? You start out by saying it is just to mix with urine. Then maybe you are using a composting toilet??? Then it is for rabbit bedding. What do you need to have it do?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Don't have any sawmills close by or know anyone who does a lot of tree cutting. Most of the places with sawdust around here sell it and for quite a bit.

I already use wood stove pellets in the litter pans for the rabbits. All my rabbits are litter trained and using stove pellets in their pans not only absorbs the urine but makes an excellent addition to the garden. I had thought about using the pellets as an absorbant in a bucket for human urine only. Not willing to go with the composting toilet right now. The urine/wood pellet/peat mixture is a brainstorm idea for not only cutting back on our water usage but also to have some material to add to the garden.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Danaus29 said:


> Don't have any sawmills close by or know anyone who does a lot of tree cutting. Most of the places with sawdust around here sell it and for quite a bit.


Make your own. I needed a lot of sawdust to fill some underground storage containers for beets, carrots, and rutabagas. Elm log was sitting around and useful only for setting some potted plants on it. Did a lot of trimming with an "electric tomahawk" and got enough sawdust to fill my immediate needs and a tub full in reserve. Make your own instead of driving all around and buying it. No logs of your own? Downed trees awaiting disposal are everywhere if you look around for them. 

Martin


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Now I have an idea. Down the road a bit in town on a lot there is a guy always doing chainsaw art, he always has a big old pile of sawdust. i betcha he wouldn't mind if I ask him for some.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

:thumb:


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I'll have to ask Mom and Pop to be on the lookout for sawdust. With as many people around here as Columbus has there are more gardeners than there is sawdust. The people who do have sawdust don't give it away. It's more expensive than stove pellets. Might be able to find some free downed trees but most times people who are giving sick or dead trees away want you to cut the tree down but you must provide proof of insurance and a list of references. Houses and power lines are usually very very close to those free trees. Even Asplundh (tree trimming co the electric co contracts with) does not give away trees, sawdust or wood chips. I do have a few downed trees in the woodlot but right now they are very difficult to access. 

I hate living near a big city.


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## Skylakes (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm a little confused. On another thread I inquired about the value of "bark" in the compost, and got the feeling it was of little use.

Sawdust is king??? Well, what's the dif? Is the makeup of tree"bark" and tree"wood" different? If I chip up my piles of bark and make sawdust it will be wonderful?? Haven't pee'd on it yet, but I could or send DH in that direction.

????


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Skylakes said:


> I'm a little confused. On another thread I inquired about the value of "bark" in the compost, and got the feeling it was of little use.
> 
> Sawdust is king??? Well, what's the dif? Is the makeup of tree"bark" and tree"wood" different? If I chip up my piles of bark and make sawdust it will be wonderful?? Haven't pee'd on it yet, but I could or send DH in that direction.
> 
> ????


In this case, the sawdust is being used as an absorbent to collect and retain the nitrogen in the urine. The finer the sawdust, the more cells are exposed to be filled with nitrogen which, in this case, would otherwise be lost to the sewage system. There it's about as useful to the individual as if a flat rock were used instead.

Martin


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Sawdust and bark both in and of themselves will bind nitrogen in the soil making it very bad for most crops until the wood has decayed. When nitrogen is added to a high carbon material there is enough nitrogen available for the current crop and for microorganisms to break down the high carbon material. Big chips of bark cover the soil and prevent light from reaching seeds and plants underneath. Bark is a wonderful weed preventing mulch but until it breaks down quite a bit it really doesn't make a good soil amendment. Big chunks don't mix with the tiny soil particles, sawdust is fine particles which mix easily with soil particles.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

NickieL said:


> In germany too, I remember being stuck in traffic as a kid behind them night soil trucks they use to fertilize the crops.


Oh yes, the honey wagons! Thanks for the reminder.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Paquebot said:


> Make your own. I needed a lot of sawdust to fill some underground storage containers for beets, carrots, and rutabagas. Elm log was sitting around and useful only for setting some potted plants on it. Did a lot of trimming with an "electric tomahawk" and got enough sawdust to fill my immediate needs and a tub full in reserve. Make your own instead of driving all around and buying it. No logs of your own? Downed trees awaiting disposal are everywhere if you look around for them.
> 
> Martin


Aren't you the guy who claimed 'never use sawdust' in compost or planting material? Didn't you claim to have used sawdust once and nothing ever grew there again?...Maybe I'm thinking of 'Squashnut'.


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

Forerunner said:


> ....or.....soon after it hits the pile, steaming profusely....soaking in....making microbes happy on a grand scale.
> It's best on a clear night, stars sparkling brightly--maybe even a touch of frost.


I tried making that my signature entitled "Forerunner 'On Urinating'" but the dang thing was limited to 200 characters. :happy0035:


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

kirkmcquest said:


> Aren't you the guy who claimed 'never use sawdust' in compost or planting material? Didn't you claim to have used sawdust once and nothing ever grew there again?...Maybe I'm thinking of 'Squashnut'.


I don't think that you are thinking at all! Definitely would not have been me since I've already told how I make my own when needed. Present compost tumbler batch just about done. Materials all gathered for the next batch include about 15 gallons of just about pure wood. 

Martin


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## motleydigger06 (2 mo ago)

Danaus29 said:


> Just an idea running through my head. Would human urine mixed with peat and sawdust (actually wood stove pellets) be ok for use in the garden? I know the peat can cause ph issues if enough is used. That's not a problem, I've got wood ash and lime is easy to get here, so I'm not concerned with the ph issue. I was just wondering if the urine and sawdust/peat would be good for the garden. I would think the nitrogen in the urine would balance out with the carbon in the sawdust. Plus it would save from flushing the toilet so much.  Just looking for alternative fertilizer/organic amendments since I no longer have the duck poo to add to the garden.


 I put pine shavings and peat moss in a container together and dump pee on them. So far so good. I use about 20% peat and 80% pine shavings. I either let them sit as is to decompose or I let it sit for several weeks then add it to my compost.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I gave up on the idea after having hip surgery. It's too hard to get up off a bucket, or to go down the basement stairs if I have to pee.


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## st0n3 (7 mo ago)

Thread from 2011...

But a really good concept to explain to city people every chance we get.

While collecting urine for the garden is tons better than urinating in the drinking water and flushing away, there are ways to up our game.

One year I tried collecting the charcoal left behind from burn pile... filled buckets, added urine to brine the biochar... Really favorable results...

Here's another thread on garden uses for urine from a garden forum:








Using human urine as fertilizer???????? in the Ask a Question forum


Thread in the Ask a Question forum forum by cwhitt: I have recently read - in several different gardening books on soil - that one can use human urine to b...




garden.org


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Yes an old thread. But the information is still relevant, maybe even more now since fertilizer is harder to find and a lot more expensive.

At least the reviving post was on topic.

I started this thread but forgot about it over the years. It's something worth trying again. I never thought about using peat moss. Urine would hydrate the peat so it wouldn't blow away while a person is trying to mix it into the garden soil. The last time I added peat to my garden I think half blew away before we got it mixed in.


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## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

Danaus and others- I had a lot of Nutella jars from when my kid lived at home. The medium or large jars were perfect female urinals- if you can sit on the toilet and reach between your legs holding the jar after your hip surgery. On my rural 6 acres I used that sometimes in the privacy of the toilet nearest the backdoor, then immediately took it out to a large plastic jug (from cat litter actually!) stored on the porch. DH just emptied his bladder on the grape vine or over the porch rail when he was outside.

I would dilute the pee with water or pour undiluted on compost pile or small amount as side fertilizer for plants without edible parts touching the ground, especially fruit trees/ shrubs. Worst thing- hurriedly hiding or dumping out the porch container whenever someone was coming over who might be weirded out by it. But now I live in town and have little space so just encourage DH to fertilize the new compost piles only in the privacy fenced yard.


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