# Cattle are on the move



## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

I've been watching the cattle markets start moving down. Hamburger cows are down as low as 61$ per cwt. Highs in the low 80's. Bulls are running around 85$.
Bred heiferettes are spread pretty wide from 89$ to 112$. I think that is because they are selling them in small lots from 1 to 5 animals. But they are also on a downward swing.
If a person were looking to buy in and has something to feed them this winter, the next few months may be the time to take a closer look.
There's folks that borrowed on 270$ calves last year. They'll need to be making payments on those loans.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

CIW said:


> I've been watching the cattle markets start moving down. Hamburger cows are down as low as 61$ per cwt. Highs in the low 80's. Bulls are running around 85$.
> Bred heiferettes are spread pretty wide from 89$ to 112$. I think that is because they are selling them in small lots from 1 to 5 animals. But they are also on a downward swing.
> If a person were looking to buy in and has something to feed them this winter, the next few months may be the time to take a closer look.
> There's folks that borrowed on 270$ calves last year. They'll need to be making payments on those loans.


Princes have dropped quite a bit up here and we haven't started the fall run but high feed prices are playing a significant role.


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## gundog10 (Dec 9, 2014)

We picked up nine 4wt calves (a motley lot) in July with an average of $500 a head. They are healthy and growing well. I can hold more on my land but 9 is the right number for us. But "Man" it is really hard not to pick up a few more the way the prices have dropped. Hum, Our plan is to raise these steers 16-18 months and put 3 into our freezers (ours and 2 daughters) and sell the other 6. This should cover our expenses and cover replacement costs. Now, if I pick up a few more younger calves we won't need to go 18 months between restocking our freezers. Now if I can only convince the little lady.:surrender:


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Hamburger cows fill a wide range of conditions. Some are culled for milking or breeding problems, but some are hide draped over bone.

A few years back most beef farmers around here would be glad to get 80 for fall feeder calves. Looking at where they have been the past few years, they can fall a long way before anyone starts crying.
Those big operations that have been buying week old calves are paying top dollar and most are raising them up (not veal) so they must figure the high prices are here tto stay. 
Depends on your area. Plenty of rain in Michigan. Caused corn and soys to be planted late and held up first cutting hay. But the corn and soys look great, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th cutting of hay has been good. Pastures are holding up. Lots of sugar beets will be plowed under because the record yields exceed the sugar factory's capacity to process it all. No livestock being sold for lack of feed, that's for sure.

http://www.uproducers.com/market-result-detail/?postID=588


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Beef in cold storage was 30+% higher then this time last year according to the latest report. I don't think cattle are going to all out crash but there is definitely going to bee a significant price drop or correction depending on the spin.
.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I find beef pricing to be interesting. I would have thought that an old skinny dairy cow would not be worth much beyond her hide and a 2 year old fat angus steer would bring many times as much.

But in truth, most of the beef we eat in this country is somewhat lean hamburger. So, the demand is for lean beef, doesn't much matter if it is tough, just has to be relatively cheap.

A big old bull, no longer breeding, will bring between $1.20 to $1.50 and it will all get ground up. 
For decades, we have imported boxes of old bull meat from Australia, New Zeeland and South America just to lean up our hamburger.

Sure, the demand for tender steaks keeps the price of fat cattle profitable. But the resulting fat trimmings drives up the market for skinny old cattle, too.


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## kycrawler (Sep 18, 2011)

prices are steady here just sold a load of 5 wt feeders last week at joplin regional stockyards brought 2.32 per lb pasture is pretty burnt as we haven't had any rain in a month but hay is cheap this year bought 4x6 fescue/clover rounds net wrapped for $17 each


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## KFhunter (Feb 21, 2010)

CIW said:


> I've been watching the cattle markets start moving down. Hamburger cows are down as low as 61$ per cwt. Highs in the low 80's. Bulls are running around 85$.
> Bred heiferettes are spread pretty wide from 89$ to 112$. I think that is because they are selling them in small lots from 1 to 5 animals. But they are also on a downward swing.
> If a person were looking to buy in and has something to feed them this winter, the next few months may be the time to take a closer look.
> There's folks that borrowed on 270$ calves last year. They'll need to be making payments on those loans.


 
I got a stack of hay and no cows to feed, I'll be on the market during this down trend. Prices haven't suffered here as yet but I expect the downswing to hit mid November. I'll be looking at bred cows.


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

KF
Have you thought about some short term bred cows? When the calves hit the ground they are worth more than their momma. If you could find something that was going to calve in the next 2 or 3 weeks you would really come out well as they would be a good size for the buyers to take to the wheat next fall.
After you wean the calves, sell off any cows that just aren't looking good or are open. If you can, you sell them bred. It gives you more weight on a hamburger cow. Summer the calves over to next fall and sell in a 5 or 6 weight class. Keep back some of the better heifers and your in the cow business for nearly nothing or even free.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

CIW said:


> KF
> Have you thought about some short term bred cows? When the calves hit the ground they are worth more than their momma. If you could find something that was going to calve in the next 2 or 3 weeks you would really come out well as they would be a good size for the buyers to take to the wheat next fall.
> After you wean the calves, sell off any cows that just aren't looking good or are open. If you can, you sell them bred. It gives you more weight on a hamburger cow. Summer the calves over to next fall and sell in a 5 or 6 weight class. Keep back some of the better heifers and your in the cow business for nearly nothing or even free.



If you can buy a cow ready to calve for less then a baby calf is worth your market is very different then mine.


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

This is a common thing that happen each fall. Large ranches don't want to put the extra high powered feed into those cows with marginal mouths. Look at the market report across the central United States.
If they sell her open she doesn't weigh as much as she would pregnant and can't gain weight because of have a poor mouth.
You can take advantage of buying her at weigh up price. 
Weigh up is around $.75 to $.82 right now. Say she weighs 1275. That's abt. $955. When that calf hits the ground the pair is worth abt. $1800. When that calf is weaned its worth abt. $1500 (575 lbs.). You still have a cow that will be worth between $800 and $900.
I know people who live at the sale. They do this each year. This isn't something that I came up with.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

CIW said:


> This is a common thing that happen each fall. Large ranches don't want to put the extra high powered feed into those cows with marginal mouths. Look at the market report across the central United States.
> If they sell her open she doesn't weigh as much as she would pregnant and can't gain weight because of have a poor mouth.
> You can take advantage of buying her at weigh up price.
> Weigh up is around $.75 to $.82 right now. Say she weighs 1275. That's abt. $955. When that calf hits the ground the pair is worth abt. $1800. When that calf is weaned its worth abt. $1500 (575 lbs.). You still have a cow that will be worth between $800 and $900.
> I know people who live at the sale. They do this each year. This isn't something that I came up with.


Arm chair quarter back. Buy some chips in the game some time, then you might really understand it.

"can't gain weight because of have a poor mouth"

I prefer cows that will gain weight and I can upgrade their condition and value as well as be closer to calving or have a calf at sell time. Sometimes they come with a calf at side it all depends. An open mind about what you want helps.


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

Yea, I guess that could be your opinion. I only have been in the cattle business since 1989 by doing this very thing to get started. 
We hover around 50 head of brood cows + a small pen of steers each year.


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## KFhunter (Feb 21, 2010)

My plan is to keep the heifers and sell the cows/steers back but it really depends on what I find at the sale yard. 

craigslist isn't reflecting the current market down trend as prices are still too high so I'm crossing my fingers I find some decent bred cows, might even rebreed if I find some younger decent cows being sold because their not synchronized with the herd,calving late or something. Eventually I might work in to registered stock since I can't go large might as well go quality. I'm active in FFA so some steers would go market there.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

We have a heard of 61 black Angus. 14 are calves. Going to sale just before Thanksgiving. My neighbor took 9 5wt to auction last week and got 2.55 average. Some a little more. We are in va and we dropped a bit from the 2.95 we were getting but still a great market. We are hoping to get up to 100 head in 5 years. Planning to buy 10 solid heifers from Whitestone in the spring. We are going all in.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

I just sent 4 breed heifers (6-9 months), 1 breed cow (6 months), and 1 cow/calf pair (calf born 8/8/15 cow has been with a bull the whole time so possibly preg).

They are going to a pregnant cow and cow/calf pair sale in Dillon SC tomorrow.

I have 2 more breed cows I want to get rid of, 1 - I have no idea why she wasn't on my piece of paper this morning, in the corral with the rest but I turned her out - go figure, the other was at my home with last year's calf, calf is blind in 1 eye and became my wife's pet so going to leave her with her momma for a bit longer.

I'll report back what they bring once I know.

I'm just culling while conserving what grass I have left to stretch it out. I have 60 4x5 rounds left over in the dry from last winter along with 600 or so good quality square bales from this year.

I was going to load up 2 x 2 year old bulls to see if they would bring a good price at this sale, the guy hauling run's the sale and he's in the market for a couple of bulls so if they were going to go for cheap he was going to bid on them. Unfortunately they were being very uncooperative due to cows in the next pasture being in cycle. I did get them up to the barn into the pipe corral where they got freaked out and one jumped into the corral tearing up one panel and my 4ft walk through. We gave up - so if he doesn't say something in the next week about buying one I'm going to start pushing feed to fatten them WAY up.

Last 3 years we have been eating cows that just walked off the pasture - they were both at least a score of 7 but still cook up tough. I'm going to try some feed this time to see if I can get some more tender meat.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

So the update:

The sale was terrible!
7 head + 3 month calf - brought $6,940 - take home was $6,640 (transport fee, 7x pregcheck, commission, some other fee)

1 cow (I assume the 2006 model) bought 74 per hundred

1 cow weighted 875 and only brought $825

The rest sold by the head but still sale sucked badly! 
I was very disappointed.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

People seem to forget the prices we were getting 5 to 10yrs ago. todays market is still GOOD for GOOD cattle.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

SCRancher said:


> So the update:
> 
> The sale was terrible!
> 7 head + 3 month calf - brought $6,940 - take home was $6,640 (transport fee, 7x pregcheck, commission, some other fee)
> ...


You mentioned pregnancy check. Were they all bred? What breed were they? The nine year old that brought 74 cents a pound sounds like a cull cow. Those cows include lame cows and old cows that won't re-breed. They end up as low quality hamburger and canned stew. Sometimes they look like skeletons with a cow hide draped over it.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

The cull cow was in very good condition - score of a 6 or 7.

She was a 2006 cow so did have some age on her, she was most assuredly prego.

Some of the younger heifers MAY not have been breed but they were of the correct age running with a good bull all spring and summer.

I don't know how far along the others were.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

An old cow, selling as open is a low quality animal. Did the auctioneer announce the ones that were bred? Were they UTD on shots? 
If I were presented an open heifer, I'd have to assume the seller couldn't get her bred.

What breed were they? Often times the odd ball breeds get discounted steeply. Scottish Highlands never bring much at auction.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

My cows are all full blood Black Angus.

I didn't go to the auction and thus I don't know how they were announced nor do I know how far along or if a cow was open or not.

I was basically just a little disappointed. The 74 per 100 was less than the normal auction earlier in the week was bringing which was in the 90's per 100.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

If you have bred cows or heifers, you went to the cost/trouble to have them pregnancy checked, you need to have that information announced during the auction. Same as if you had calves vaccinated, it should be announced. You get more for them. 

If it isn't known, buyers assume they are open and unbreedable. Sorry this mistake cost you money.


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## ramiller5675 (Mar 31, 2009)

SCRancher, I'd guess that since it was a special Bred Cow and Cow/Calf Pair sale there wasn't anyone at the auction looking for cull cows which is why she sold for less than you expected. 

Every time I sell cows at the stockyard, they'll preg-check them before the sale and sell them as either a bred cow or as a cull cow. It's the commission company's job to make sure they are announced correctly when they go into the sale ring. 

I don't think I'd send anything to a special Bred Cow sale unless they had been preg-checked beforehand.


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

Many times the auction company will have a custom buyer who is there to buy for them, or have an imaginary buyers # for just such occasions like yours. They buy the animal far below the market rate. + they get the sales commission besides.
They will hold the animal and put it in a later sale or take it to another sale barn and make money on it.
Kind of like when a car dealership takes a trade in on a new car. They buy it well below market and resell it at or above market.
There is a guy around here that advertises that he will buy used cows. All he does is turn around and run them through the same auction that you would have taken it to the next week. He just skims a little as they go by.
That auction company made the difference between $.74 and the going rate of about $.94 + around $.052 commission.
Some will say its illegal but its a common thing that goes on. They have ways to make it happen.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

Yea they preg checked at the auction - don't think I'll do the special sale anymore. 10 years of this and I'm still new and learning but then again it's 10 years as a hobby farmer.


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## KFhunter (Feb 21, 2010)

The auction I was at the prices were still a sellers market, it was a special sale (bred cow) The vet was on hand and preg checked the cows and marked the cows with paint stick indicating how far along they were. As a buyer I was hoping the down trend would show up, but buyer pressure (expecting a sharp down trend) kept prices stable or even a slight uptick on high quality bred heifers. 1 lot of 50+ brought 1800/hd. 

Some quality young cows went to sale that were late, I focused on those. Never know if they lost and rebred or bull didn't do his part, late turn out who knows. Some nice cows went that were 4-5 months preg for a summer calf. I'm herd building so the late calving doesn't bother me yet. 

Now I just got to get these range cows tamed down a little. Nice thick cows though, not fence jumpers.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Went to sale last night. Took 6 bull calves 550-590 and got 1.89lb average. Far from what it was but still decent


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Went to sale last night. Took 6 bull calves 550-590 and got 1.89lb average. Far from what it was but still decent


Second guessing is a dangerous sport. But it seems to me, in my local market, that had you castrated them and wormed and vaccinated them, with that announcement during the sale, they would have brought more. 

To get top dollar, most sales have fall conditioned feeder auction sales. Everything is castrated, weaned, wormed and vaccinated. Everyone brings their feeders and lots of buyer show up to get them.

If I were to market a 500 pound bull, I'd have the birth weight, rate of gain and anything eels that would make it a desirable breeder.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

haypoint said:


> Second guessing is a dangerous sport. But it seems to me, in my local market, that had you castrated them and wormed and vaccinated them, with that announcement during the sale, they would have brought more.
> 
> To get top dollar, most sales have fall conditioned feeder auction sales. Everything is castrated, weaned, wormed and vaccinated. Everyone brings their feeders and lots of buyer show up to get them.
> 
> If I were to market a 500 pound bull, I'd have the birth weight, rate of gain and anything eels that would make it a desirable breeder.


Actually ours brought the higher amounts. Only a couple went 2.02. They were vaccinated natural. Most averaged 1.31 to 1.51. Ours had an mab and 1 2ab. The prices are just down right now.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

what's vaccinated natural?


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

haypoint said:


> what's vaccinated natural?


They are natural raised beef that only use vaccines approved by the certified organic organization. Doesn't make much sense since they are still vaccinated, but to the buyers it does. They averaged. 21 more a pound. And for some reason Bull calves brought more than steers. Which some locals told me was common at our auction house which is why I left ours alone. I have 4 more to take next month. So we will see what they do.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

At my area auctions, fat has little value. Since most older and cull cattle are going into burger, skinny translates to less trim. In younger cattle, buyers prefer to buy thin, lighter cattle and put their own weight on them. Those show ready, glossy fat steers don't have much that a farmer can add to them. At first, I expected they would top the sale. 

An economical breeding plan is to find an older bull from a good herd, one being replaced due to getting too big, buy him for slaughter price, use him a couple months on your cows and send him through a sale. A ton Angus without much fat will get you your money back most days.

http://www.uproducers.com/auction_result/cass-city-mi/


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## AnnieinBC (Mar 23, 2007)

We are getting set up for a couple of cows, and were hoping to have them settled this Fall. Disappointing it won't happen until next year, but we are using this time to learn more about what we are getting ourselves in for.

I hope cattle prices are lower next year! Here in BC they seem to be higher than you folks are mentioning.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

AnnieinBC said:


> We are getting set up for a couple of cows, and were hoping to have them settled this Fall. Disappointing it won't happen until next year, but we are using this time to learn more about what we are getting ourselves in for.
> 
> I hope cattle prices are lower next year! Here in BC they seem to be higher than you folks are mentioning.



When you compare the exchange rate between the US and Canadian dollar, the prices are similar.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Canada and the USA control the market in different ways. Too complex to get into here, but the result is Canada consumer prices for numerous products is significantly higher. Turkey and turkey products, chicken, eggs, milk and gasoline come to mind. After living near a border town for 30 years, interesting to see Canadians stocking up on these products before heading home. Canada controls the prices and limits production. USA lets the price float and tries to keep farmers from failure with tax breaks.


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## AnnieinBC (Mar 23, 2007)

I have been following the prices, using this link....

http://www.bclivestock.bc.ca/market_report

I have no idea what a D1/D2 cow is; we still have a LOT to learn.


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