# Anybody own their own mineral rights



## BadOregon (12 mo ago)

Was looking at a piece of property recently and this was something I hadn't encountered before. The title had an exception where the mineral rights were owned by a local timber company. I looked into it and that was quite the
eye opener. They can pretty much start looking/mining for minerals on your property any time the want. Or come 
in from the side (someone else's property) or frack. All without you having any say so on the matter.

Dang! I sure didn't care for that. Guess in some places, lots of people don't own the mineral rights to their own
property. (Texas was one that stood out due to oil rights) 

Would that be a deal breaker for you buying a property? Or not.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

No mineral rights would be as much of a deal breaker to me as no water rights. I own the mineral rights on my properties.


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## BadOregon (12 mo ago)

They were shocked when I said that was a problem for me. I had never considered it before.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

How could you do anything on a property where some entity could come in and tear it all down with no compensation? No house, no barns, no trees, no gardens. Any of it could be ripped out in a moment's notice. If they cut off your water supply in their search for minerals, too bad for you. 

Sorry but I think separating mineral rights is stupid. If they want access to the minerals they should pay for the land.


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## BadOregon (12 mo ago)

Agreed. I guess the government sees it differently. Your thoughts were mine exactly. Theirs were "oh, no one has done anything about it in years". Not good enough for me. 
What exactly did you have to do in order to own the mineral rights on your property?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

In Ohio mineral rights are rarely separated from the land. I never knew such a situation could exist until I was studying it in high school.


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## Big_Al (Dec 21, 2011)

Nothing about "mineral rights" in my warranty deed. I just had to get a copy from my county appraisers office so I could have my wife added to the deed.
Maybe they are not allowed in Florida?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

They have to make a contract with you about surface damage before they come on your property. This is VERY normal in oil producing areas.

Fracing doesn’t happen until after a well is drilled.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The property that I have near Houston has had portions of the mineral rights retained by several previous owners. We only have a percentage.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

It's very common to not own the mineral rights to your property in areas that are known for underground resources; oil, coal, nat gas, etc. and rarely causes problems.
In the few cases where the owners of such exercise their mineral rights on private property they are typically very generous with the land owners regarding compensating them for the disruption, access, etc.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

About 50 years ago, a timber company held ownership to tens of thousands of acres of land around us. As they sold off parcels thru the years, they retained the mineral rights. They have no rights for logging, just minerals. To the best of my knowledge, those rights have never been exercised.
A property owner doing a look up at the courthouse may find two different entities on their titlework.


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## Robotron (Mar 25, 2012)

I have mine but in Michigan during the depression lots of places were lost to non payment of property tax. Once seized by the government those mineral rights were severed and retained by the state.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Very, very rare for landowners to own mineral rights up here. And yes, the landowner has the say in whether or not access to the minerals is granted. Surface leases and land access is pretty lucrative.


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## BadOregon (12 mo ago)

According to my research, the landowner here does not have a say whether access is granted. They own them and if they want them, they can take them. Supposed to compensate you for whatever damages, but that is it. 

I did find out that in most states, if the access has not been exercised for a period of time (can't remember if it was 20 or 40 years) you can go through a process whereby you can get those mineral rights returned to you. 

I just don't trust large corporations any more than the gov't. Just because they are "supposed" to do something doesn't mean they will. In my experience, they will do what they want and the little guy gets diddly squat out of the deal.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Consult a real estate attorney or land man.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Robotron said:


> I have mine but in Michigan during the depression lots of places were lost to non payment of property tax. Once seized by the government those mineral rights were severed and retained by the state.


Good to know.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

Absolutely normal in Texas. If I sold a property and didn't retain the mineral rights my Grandpa might just come up out if his grave and spank me!
If they want to put a 'location' on your physical property they will negotiate with you about paying damages. If you say no, they will just put it on your neighbors property and they'll get the big fat check.....and you'll still get your house illuminated at night by the flare 😉
As to angle or horizontal drilling and fracking..... you'll never know they are doing it. As close as I can tell the end of a well that was fracked is directly underneath me and I wouldn't know if I didn't have mineral rights on that well and wanted to know.
Oh and having mineral rights doesn't mean you'll get rich off of them. Mostly it means you get to redistribute it to the local school system so they can graduate people that can't count change 🤦


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

double post


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## ofanevening (10 mo ago)

GTX63 said:


> To the best of my knowledge, those rights have never been exercised.


But they could be, with very little explanation required? That's scary.


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## JOAT (10 mo ago)

No one owns subsurface mineral rights for their property in my state. The State Constitution declared that the people of the State hold joint ownership of all subsurface minerals. By doing so, any mineral extraction (oil, gold, copper, etc.) has to be done by permit with the State with a tax paid to the State. The monies collected from the sales of these minerals to companies that are extracting them are placed into a fund. That fund is a managed investment account. A portion of the interest from that account is then paid out equally to all eligible State residents on an annual basis. Alas, with most good things in life, it is a non-stop battle with the politicians and legislators of the State, who feel that the State can spend that money better than the people, so they're constantly looking for ways to steal these dividends for State use, rather than pay it directly to the people, as was the rule when this whole system was set up decades ago.


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

a. You folks need to realize that it is completely meaningless to readers if you explain mineral rights in your state and do not say what state you are in.

b. In Mississippi mineral rights do NOT go with the surface ownership. You may buy land and not even think about mineral rights. And you might find that you cannot even find out who owns them. (I have tried. It's not mentioned in the deed and nobody at the county courthouse seems to know.) But you might, one day, find that a company is planning to do strip mining for lignite (a form of soft coal) on farm land that your family has lived on for the last 50 years. But they might promise to plant pine trees on whatever is left when they are finished.

I'm not sure how this ended: Court forces landowners to allow oil, gas exploration. Widow, dying woman fighting back.


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## JRHill02 (Jun 20, 2020)

BadOregon said:


> Would that be a deal breaker for you buying a property? Or not.


In our county in WA "Many property owners do not own the mineral rights under their property. Owners of mineral rights have the ability to change the surface characteristics in order to extract their minerals. It is very important to know what minerals may be located under the land and who owns them. Much of the rural land in [this] County can be used for mining, subject to current land use zoning standards. Be aware that adjacent mining uses may expand and could cause what you consider negative impacts."

I had to look this up again as its been many years since the topic came up. The last sentence is of interest to me in that if there were minerals of any value, what are the chances that I would be the first to have this happen in the area? Also, the land is heavily treed so it would have to be clear cut. The state and county would have a windfall in the issuance of harvest permits and the taxes on the value of the trees. And of course, taxes on the value of the minerals extracted too. Yet another way in that I don't own the land OR its resources, the State does. Lastly, about 2/3of our land is very steep canyon sides and any excavation would be an ecological disaster for erosion control for planning, permitting, etc. AND the stream at the bottom of the canyon is protected tribal spawning habitat 

So even though I don't own the mineral rights the chances they would be exercised, in my case anyway, is extremely remote. So the bottom line is what are the chances in your particular situation?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I know a retired machinist who purchased a remote property. He intended to build a nice house and live out his days in peace and quiet. He discovered an old mine shaft on the property, and researched the mining claim. He discovered that it had been a producing silver mine, until the end of WWII. The owner had died in the war, and the mine had never been reopened. The EPA will not issue a new mining permit, to open the old mine. They did issue him a permit to remove the old mining equipment. He pumped out a lot of water and went down two hundred feet and began to explore the old tunnels. He contacted an old friend who happened to be a mining engineer, to help him remove the old equipment.

The engineer discovered a rich vein of silver, on his first trip down into the mine. They did not tell anyone, and they did not report this to the EPA. They began to "remove the old mining equipment" and continued to do so until the temporary clean up permit expired. 

They contacted a retired assayer who lived in Tucson, and had the "salvaged equipment" tested. The retired assayer made them a cash offer for the "salvaged equipment" and they agreed to sell him half of what they had. The "salvaged equipment" was delivered two or three tons at a time over the course of three years, and they collected the cash payment. The remaining half is stored in 55 gallon drums along one wall of the retired machinists new machine shop. 

With the cash they purchased gold bullion from different dealers through the southwest, mostly in Nevada. The bullion is stored in a walk-in safe built into the floor of the new machine shop. All of this happened in the 1990's. The last time I talked to the machinist, was five years ago. He estimated that he had $32,000,000.00 in gold in the safe.

Note: This is a fictional story, and has to relation to any person living or dead.


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## JRHill02 (Jun 20, 2020)

muleskinner2 said:


> Note: This is a fictional story, and has to relation to any person living or dead.


What a cool and wonderful, 'fiction' story. He obviously trusts you. Even talking about this in 'jest.' I'm guessing he doesn't worry about the price of gas or diesel.

But to have a mine shaft even absent of anything of harvestable is way past enviable. I'm guessing he doesn't have a problem with finding anyone to take over his remote project in time. And the EPA and permits - who owns the land?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

JRHill02 said:


> And the EPA and permits - who owns the land?


He owns the land, in an irrevocable family trust. It can not be sold or mortgaged, but his sons are included in the trust, and can add their children when the time comes.

As for him trusting me. In the 80's his 19 year old son was arrested in Mexico, for possession of a firearm. And sentenced to five years in a Mexican prison. Which for an Anglo is a death sentence. Through some friends, I was able to arrange for his return to US soil. We have been close friends ever since.


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