# Anyone else tanning hides?



## Kyah (Oct 29, 2007)

I have 8 pelts now, soaking in salt/alum, and this is my second try. (Only did 2 the first time). The first ones didn't turn out _too_ bad, but I sure managed to get a lot of holes in the hides, though.  I find they rip super easy around the bum part, if I'm not careful. I'm finding the fleshing part the hardest, and I think I'm gonna need quite a thimble for sewing up all those holes, sigh. 

The other thing is getting enough hides of the same color to make something. My very first project I'm going to try is a fur pillow for my dd. 

So, anyone else doing any tanning? Does anyone have any pics to share of tanned hides or fur projects that you're working on? I can post some pics next week when these ones are done if anyone would like a good giggle.


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## katduck (Jul 10, 2008)

I haven't yet, but I plan to. My first batch of fryers are 9 weeks old today. They are Champagne crossed with French Angora so all six are black with the silvering starting to show up. One has noticeably less silvering that the others, but the rest are almost identical. I'm also working on white Rex, so I will have quite a few of those that will be all the same. I'd love to see pictures of you hard work. I promise not to laugh at the holes. Wouldn't want to test that whole Karma thing!

Kat


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

I tried. I know what you mean they rip easy.

I _thought _my first pelts weren't too bad. No oil, no smell, weren't even terribly stiff or anything. Clean and pliable. If you were to use for the back of one of those Indian Dream catchers, or to say lay flat on your dresser and put your crystal chotcskies on, then they would be fine me-thinks.

My plan however, was to use them for mitten tops. I was going to use fleece fabric for the palm side of the hand - and use the rabbit pelts for the tops. I figured kids would go for it... and to make them more appealing, I tried to dye the fur pink, blue etc. (we raise white newzealands). Problem was - when I dropped the pre-cut pelt pieces into the hot dye water, they shriveled all up... and the leathery skin part of the pelt got all hard and almost glass like. Completely unuseable. I don't know what I did wrong..

So. back to the tanning directions I go, I guess. It's doable, I just have to get the kinks worked out. If anyone can tell me what i did wrong - I'd love to know - or - if there is anything else I can use the pelts for, I'm all ears. I really hate wasting that lovely fur.


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## Kyah (Oct 29, 2007)

Oh! Champagne crossed with French Angora sounds beautiful! The silvery color must be gorgeous. I'm trying really hard with white rex too. FINALLY after almost two years I have a buck and a doe. The fur on these white rabbits seems to be denser? or something, like it's more plush. I don't know how else to describe it really, but I like it. 

You have my full permission to laugh at the pics, lol. My first attempt (and even my _second_ one) at tanning are quite pathetic, really. I think it's something one needs to practice to get it just right, _especially_ the fleshing part. 

LFRJ, did you use the alum/salt tanning method? To the best of my knowledge, the alum/salt is really good for white hides, but I don't think? they're supposed to get wet after they're tanned. When I was researching different tanning methods, I discovered that a lot of people who are into tanning use alum/salt only to pickle the skins, but something else for the actual tan. Or maybe it was the hot water that caused it to turn so hard? I wish I could be of more help....

This is one that I had bookmarked. A pretty good read (although lengthy)...
http://books.google.ca/books?id=9aJ...X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA105,M1


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## Ryan NC (Jan 29, 2009)

LFRJ said:


> I tried to dye the fur pink, blue etc. (we raise white newzealands). Problem was - when I dropped the pre-cut pelt pieces into the hot dye water, they shriveled all up...



From what I've read, this is a sign of a under complete tanning process. Several articles I've read about tanning recommend taking a small piece of the hide and dropping it in boiling water to test if the tanning process is complete and describe exactly what you're talking about on unfinished hides. 

I've never tanned hides but it's something that interest me greatly, now if I just knew someone who sewed...


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

I've tried two and used the kerosene/baking powder method. Messy and the hides turned out hard as a rock. I think they're supposed to be moistened and worked after but I have other issues right now and didn't continue. I still can't find Alum, I've been to two feed mills, TSC, Home Hardware and the pharmacy. The pharmacy was the only place that had any idea what I was talking about but could only get it in tiny amounts. I found a place in the US that sells it by the pound and sent them a message asking about getting it over the border but never heard back from them.

Until I get things sorted out here the hides are going in the compost but when things stabilize I'll give it another try. I agree, it's a shame to waste the lovely furs.

The fleshing part is a pain.


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

I got alum from the grocery store. It is kept with the spices (actually used for pickling), but comes in these little 8oz plastic containers which are costly - so rounding up *two cups *to mix with the salt gets expensive! Could be I just didn't have enough alum?

At any rate, Tandy Corp, I'm told, sells the products one would need for tanning, and likely alum can be bought in bulk. I haven't investigated this yet. I'll try again some day. I just don't have quite the time for it as of late (or the extra $).


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## katduck (Jul 10, 2008)

Kyah said:


> Oh! Champagne crossed with French Angora sounds beautiful! The silvery color must be gorgeous. I'm trying really hard with white rex too. FINALLY after almost two years I have a buck and a doe. The fur on these white rabbits seems to be denser? or something, like it's more plush. I don't know how else to describe it really, but I like it.


The Angora wool is recessive, so their fur is normal, and the silvering is less than a purebred Champagne, but they are very pretty. We are going to wait until 12 weeks before sending them to freezer camp, so they'll have even more silver by then. How old were the pelts you were working with?

You're right about the white Rex. I hadn't fully thought about it until I just read this, but it's true, both my Does have denser fur than my Castor buck. I'm expecting a litter from one of my does tomorrow. If all goes well, I'll keep a buck that carries white to breed back to both my white does, that way I'll get castor and white babies mostly. I plan to make a patchwork blanket.

Kat


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## jil101ca (Jul 2, 2007)

I have done a few hides using several methods. My method of choice is the salt/alum. I soak the hides for about a week in the mixture after fleshing. I bought my self a fleshing tool from the fur trader store in North Bay for $25. I later saw a triangle shaped paint scraper with a wooden handle that I thought might work well for $6 in a hardware store. I have tried Tanning solution but is make the hides yellow and the finished product is stiffer. If you want to use the hides as well as the meat and are able to let the fryers grow a bit longer the hides will be thicker.I found that NZW have thinner skin than Cali's do. My champane mixes have very thick skin and so far make the best furs. I'll try to post pics later.


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

and requires care not to injure the leather.

A fleshing beam is simply an iron-board shaped wooden beam, smaller than your hides [ cased , that is]. Slide the hide over the beam and with an dull edged tool of most any sort, work the fatty tissue off the leather. The more fat you get off the hide before you tan, the better the outcome.

No need to get skinned or skunked by hi price stuff, simply use something as simple as a butter knife and you will get the hang of it.

Right now I got about a dozen NZ's, probably 5 Rex's and 2 Angora pelts in the freezer, awaiting warm weather to batch out say a dozen Hair-On Pelts.

I nice thing you could easily make from home finished rabbit hides would be a round fur muff for handwarmers, as the pelt has the good shape for that.

I think ALUM is available somewhere, the first place I would look would be BULK BARN, or some other place. I am sure Google or the Yellow Pages will be helpful.


One last thing for you all who want to dye : We used KOOL-AID on our wool [ sheep wool] and it gives a good and consistent non-toxic color each time. We'd heat the selected KOOL-AID color up to just simmer, NOT boil, and run the wool thru it, and left it in until all the dye from the pot absorbed and then ran it into a vinegar bath. You'd have to try each color on your own rabbit pelt to see the outcome, as unless it was pure white you'd never know what color you'd get. For that matter we used WILTON ICING Coloring to tint some Katadin Wool that my DW made a wonderful stole from. The comlexity of dying and water trace minerals and PH will keep you guessing,but its something you'd take up on a SPinners and Weavers thread if you were looking for info

Best,

DG




jil101ca said:


> I have done a few hides using several methods. My method of choice is the salt/alum. I soak the hides for about a week in the mixture after fleshing. I bought my self a fleshing tool from the fur trader store in North Bay for $25. I later saw a triangle shaped paint scraper with a wooden handle that I thought might work well for $6 in a hardware store. I have tried Tanning solution but is make the hides yellow and the finished product is stiffer. If you want to use the hides as well as the meat and are able to let the fryers grow a bit longer the hides will be thicker.I found that NZW have thinner skin than Cali's do. My champane mixes have very thick skin and so far make the best furs. I'll try to post pics later.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Might I suggest brain tanning ???


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## katduck (Jul 10, 2008)

||Downhome|| said:


> Might I suggest brain tanning ???


I originally wanted to try brain tanning, but couldn't find any instructions for using this technique on rabbits. Have you done it? How did they turn out?

Kat


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## Kyah (Oct 29, 2007)

katduck said:


> ...How old were the pelts you were working with?
> ...I plan to make a patchwork blanket.
> Kat


There are a few seniors, some 5 month olds, and some 3 month olds. (I wanted to see what differences I notice in the hides). I found that the young rabbit's hides are thinner, and some seemed to be more of a greyish/bluish color vs. the older rabbits who had thicker, whiter hides, almost comparable to a fox hide. 

One thing I DID find was that the frozen hides were harder to flesh. Especially on the older rabbits because the reddish membrane in the middle was VERY hard to get off. I used to help my Dad skin beaver when I was young, and it looked just like the part he called the 'saddle'. I tried getting it off with an old dull putty knife, but I find I had better luck by scraping with my old hunting knife. 

I tried another method in my book, "Tan Your Hide', too, the one where you make a paste, apply it to the hide, scrape after a few days and repeat. I messed that up though. In hindsight, I think I was supposed to roll the hides up, but I didn't, Just laid them flat, and I got hair slip really bad. I think because there was so much fluid draining out of the pelt that the paste drained out with out. 

Kool Aid? Now that's an awesome idea! I was wondering about dying the furs, but I'm leery of commercial dyes after reading what happened to LFRJ.


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## ONThorsegirl (Apr 2, 2005)

I have been reading the posts...I don't tane my hides, because my rabbits are sold with hides on, for the dogs. BUT

Anyone looking for Alum. Try a Hunting Supply store, people tan Deer hides, wild rabbit etc. all the time. ITs worth a Try. I know I have seen it in the Grocery Stores as well, but is costly that way. 

Just thought I would mention it!

Melissa


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## jil101ca (Jul 2, 2007)

For the Alum... I buy mine at the Bulk Barn as some else mentioned... for those in the states, it is a bulk food store or bin store as some know it as.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I am doing some creme d'argent hides right now but I havent got to the tanning part yet. they are salted and rolled right now. I am also using the book tan your hide. wish me luck. I will post results when I have them


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

> Might I suggest brain tanning ???


From what I've read, after you brain tan you have to smoke the hide to make it waterproof. I may stand corrected on that, though...

Also, I haven't been butchering animals long enough to work with brains yet!


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Brain tan would work, but you should be aware that hides that are brain tanned and then smoked will stink. It's not strong, but noticeable, especially indoors. We had just one pair of brain-tanned and smoked leather mittens when we lived in Alaska (Indian-made), and you did notice the smell. 

I've got four, six-seven month old rabbits to butcher in the next few days, and want to tan their hides. Three are white, one is sable-colored. I'd like to have more of the sable pelts, but will have to wait and see what my Sable doe throws in her next litter (and then raise any brown bunnies until next winter before butchering them....). She's bred to a NZW buck.

Kathleen


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

you WANT to waterproof the hides which I dont see the point for in rabbit hides.

My beaver gauntlets have smoke-tanned moose palms and thumbs, but its not obnoxious.

In brain-tanning, you make a thin paste from the brains and work that into the hide. The Harding Magazine, "FISH, FUR, & GAME" has a slew of books in it that concern hides and tanning, and is a great source. You might also try the "Alaska Trappers Handbook" for that kind of bushcraft. Also there is a book called "BUSHCRAFT" and that would be a great addition to your library.

Good Luck All,

DG



BlueJuniperFarm said:


> Brain tan would work, but you should be aware that hides that are brain tanned and then smoked will stink. It's not strong, but noticeable, especially indoors. We had just one pair of brain-tanned and smoked leather mittens when we lived in Alaska (Indian-made), and you did notice the smell.
> 
> I've got four, six-seven month old rabbits to butcher in the next few days, and want to tan their hides. Three are white, one is sable-colored. I'd like to have more of the sable pelts, but will have to wait and see what my Sable doe throws in her next litter (and then raise any brown bunnies until next winter before butchering them....). She's bred to a NZW buck.
> 
> Kathleen


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## maidservant (Dec 10, 2007)

Ryan, where are you in NC? I'm not wonderful at sewing, but I'm decent, and I have a sewing machine which loves fur! Can't beat the old Italian model Necchis for what they can do. Keep your needle sharp and the thing will cut through medium weight leather like it wasn't there. 

I tan hides when I get a batch. I sell for dog food too, but I keep the hides, ears, back feet, and skulls. Those are the "extras". 

For those who are buying food grade alum and those having trouble finding it, look in the fertilizer section for Aluminum Sulfate. Many people use it around blueberries, azaleas, and anything else that likes acidic soil. I can get a 10 lb bag here for under $5. I also buy livestock salt because you do not want your salt to be iodized! Livestock salt is typically sold in 25-40 lb bags for $3-7. These are the prices here in rural NC, so they may vary some where you are. 

Word of caution, be very careful mixing Aluminum sulfate with water! It makes sulfuric acid, which is not fun to get on your skin. We had someone spill some on their hand in organic chemistry when I was still in college and she ended up having to go to the hospital. Granted, what we were working with was way more concentrated than this, but you still need to be careful. 

I put 2 gallons of warm water into a 5 gallon bucket, then add 1 cup of salt and stir well. Then add 1 cup of aluminum sulfate and stir well, being careful not to splash any. Let it sit until it reaches room tempreture (around 70 degrees), then add the UNfleshed hides. Stir as you add each one. Keep the bucket in a semi-warm place where you will walk by it several times per day. Stir it (with something wooden) as many times per day as you think about it. After two days, squeeze the excess out of the hides. I only do one hide at a time, because this is when I flesh them. After you've squeezed (don't ever wring them!) and fleshed, rinse in cold water. Squeeze the water out of them and lay them aside. After all of the skins have been rinsed and squeezed, add another cup of salt and another cup of alum to the same water, and put the skins back in for seven days. I've kept them in this second solution for 2 months before, as long as you stir them at least twice per day, it won't hurt them. Always test for doneness by cutting off a small piece and dropping it into boiling water. If it's done, it will stay flat, if it isn't stick it back in the solution for a few more days. 

Hope this helps,
Emily in NC 

PS - Sorry I was so long winded!


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## Goatguy (Aug 23, 2007)

maidservant said:


> Ryan, where are you in NC? I'm not wonderful at sewing, but I'm decent, and I have a sewing machine which loves fur! Can't beat the old Italian model Necchis for what they can do. Keep your needle sharp and the thing will cut through medium weight leather like it wasn't there.
> 
> I tan hides when I get a batch. I sell for dog food too, but I keep the hides, ears, back feet, and skulls. Those are the "extras".
> 
> ...



Interesting! Thanks for the thorough instructions!

does leaving the fleshed hides in the solution for 2 days make them easier to flesh?


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## maidservant (Dec 10, 2007)

Goatguy said:


> does leaving the fleshed hides in the solution for 2 days make them easier to flesh?



Much easier. You still need to be careful not to pull away actual skin though. If you can see hair follicles, you're taking too much off. I also don't slaughter until 16 weeks, which allows the skins to thicken up a bit. For those who butcher at 8-12 weeks, the skins may not be thick enough to get anything decent out of them. 

It only costs 50 cents more to raise them that extra four weeks the way I feed them, plus a little cage space. I breed mutts, rex, english spot, and NZW. I also have a 6 year old californian buck who has actually sired some nice looking kits.


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## bowbuild (Aug 2, 2008)

Emily,

What do you do with the "extras??"


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## maidservant (Dec 10, 2007)

The ears get dehydrated once I get enough for all natural dog treats, the feet are sometimes made into charms (if I feel like fighting with them), and the skulls are cleaned and sold. At least that's what we are hoping to do with them. We will be ordering some dermisted beetles soon. They are how museums get their bones so clean.


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

> We will be ordering some dermisted beetles soon. They are how museums get their bones so clean.


I have a head in my worm bin and we'll see how that works. I've had the worm bin for a few years but haven't had bones in it yet. Apparently worms will clean the bones very well. Unfortunately it will take a month or two, oh well....

I have a dozen feet and half a dozen tails on my coffee table just waiting to be made into something.

Haven't tried the ears yet...


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## Kyah (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm finally done. YAY! 
Here's some pics... The last one is of the hide side. I'm still re-wetting and reworking them, trying to get them nice and soft. You can see how crinkly they look. And I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with the the area where the front legs are????? Sew it up, I guess. 

I find the young fryers' pelts are very paper like when they're dry. They turned out really nice and soft though. Warning: If you decide to tan your rabbit skins, be careful who you show them to!  Everyone who's seen and touched these pelts wants me to make them something out of them! lol! 








\


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## Kyah (Oct 29, 2007)

Oh, almost forgot - maidservant, the method you posted is the very same one I used for these pelts, and I like it better than the first one I used. 
It's here on this site too:
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/My%20Documents/ALUM%20RECEIPE%20FOR%20TANNING%20RABBITS.htm


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Great job, Kyah! :goodjob: Thanks for posting the pictures.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

maidservant said:


> Ryan, where are you in NC? I'm not wonderful at sewing, but I'm decent, and I have a sewing machine which loves fur! Can't beat the old Italian model Necchis for what they can do. Keep your needle sharp and the thing will cut through medium weight leather like it wasn't there.
> 
> I tan hides when I get a batch. I sell for dog food too, but I keep the hides, ears, back feet, and skulls. Those are the "extras".
> 
> ...


Do you need to wear gloves when you squeeze?? if so what kind?? by the way thank you for posting this!!


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

oooo how nice!!!!


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## katduck (Jul 10, 2008)

Wow, it looks like a treasure table!! Thanks for letting us see the pictures! I can't wait to do some.

Kat


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## o&itw (Dec 19, 2008)

maidservant said:


> We will be ordering some dermisted beetles soon. They are how museums get their bones so clean.


They work very well, though it takes a while. We used them in the research center I once worked at. Kept them in the basement of an unused building in a wooden box with a hinged lid. It had a screened hole in the top. The process does create some odor as you can imagine. If you decide to ever do a whole skeleton, wrap it in cheese cloth before you put it in with them, they eat the ligaments and cartilage also.


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## twohunnyz (Apr 27, 2006)

Wow, beautiful furs! We were intimidated by the process at first, but then after tanning a batch, realized it's pretty easy to learn and carry out. And well worth the effort!

I agree with the comment about who you show them to. The common reaction I receive is "So, when are you going to make me something from this one?" LOL 

Now I just need to actually make something with the tanned Satin furs I have collected. Hmmm...


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## Shannonmcmom (Jul 18, 2005)

Thanks for this thread. We have I think a dozen frozen in our one shed. We also scooped out the brains to try brain tanning. I want to start with these small hides first before moving on to my sheep, pig and steer.

The finished hides look beautiful. The idea for the dog treats sound great. Right now it is a matter of not letting the dogs get the frozen heads and running around with them for a game of fetch.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

you can get Aluminum Sulfate from vandykes taxidermy 10lbs for 10 bucks.
50lbs for 34 and change not sure on shiping.

here is how MSU says to do it (I omitted the acid tan)

Regardless of the method used for tanning, proper preparation of the skin is an important step. This involves softening, removal of the adhering fat and flesh, and removal of oil in the skin. Open the skin with a midline cut along the ventral or belly side so that it can be stretched on a flat surface. Scrape adhering flesh and fat from the skin using a blunt knife or similar object. Removing all oil is essential for proper tanning. Working the skin in gasoline or other fat solvent is desirable to remove the last traces of fat.

Dried skins are softened by soaking in several changes of water for about 1-3 hours. Time required for softening will vary; soaking time is kept to a minimum since excessive soaking tends to loosen the hair. Addition of borax or bicarbonate of soda (about 1 ounce per gallon) aids in softening, and a little soap or detergent aids in removal of the fat.

Salt-Alum Tanning 
Prepare the solutions as follows:

Dissolve 1 pound of ammonium aluminum sulfate or potassium aluminum sulfate (alum) in 1 gallon of water.

Dissolve 4 ounces of sodium carbonate and 8 ounces of sodium chloride (salt) in 1/2 gallon of water.

Slowly add the soda-salt solution to the alum solution with vigorous stirring.

Mix flour with the combined solutions to make a thin paste, first mixing the flour with a little water to aid in preventing lumps.

Prepare the skins as previously described and stretched or tack to a flat surface. Coat the skin with a layer of the paste about 1/8" thick and cover lightly with paper or cloth. Allow skins to stand for about 24 hours, remove the paste, and apply a second coating. A third treatment may be required for thick skins. The last coating should remain for 3-4 days.

Remove the paste and wash skins in a solution of borax or soda (1 ounce per gallon of water). Squeeze out (do not wring) excess solution; rinse in plain water and squeeze out excess. Stretch, and when nearly dry, work the skin by rubbing and pulling over the edge of a table, as in polishing shoes with a cloth. Stretching and working the skin is necessary for softening the finished skin. If the skin is rough, it can be sanded with a coarse sandpaper block. A thin coating of neat's foot oil, glycerin, or other leather conditioner improves pliability.

This process is considered slightly better than the salt-acid method that follows, but the finished product is usually harder and more working may be required to make it pliable. It may be necessary to resoak the skin, partially dry it, and repeat the rubbing in order to make it more pliable.

Tanning is also accomplished by soaking skins for 2-4 days in the solution before addition of flour. This amount of solution is adequate for 3 or 4 rabbit skins.


link to the whole thing http://msucares.com/livestock/small_animal/index.html


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

I was a taxidermist back in the 90's.
I would like to mention disposal of your tanning baths.

In high concentrations many chemicals used in tanning are not safe to just dump on the ground and many can mess up a septic tanks balances and destroy a drain field.

Research what ever compounds your using for proper disposal. Even salt is not good for the environment in high concentrations.

When I lived in the city and did taxidermy it was easy. I used compounds that were ok for the city sewage and the treatment plants.

Now that I live in the country and have my own septic and drain field and no waste water treatment plant to drain to, I no longer tan hides. I only make natural raw hide.

Also prime hides, winter hides, are better than summer hides that are not prime. An unprime hide needs to be pickled before tanning, especially if you want the hair on and a soft hide.
Alum hides are not weather proof and have a short shelf life compared to other tanned hides.
Research Van ***** taxidermy and you can find many compounds to make a usable, weather proof hide. But please research disposal. Some compounds fall under hazmat laws for disposal.


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## bunnylover (Nov 1, 2007)

Beautiful furs! I am so jealous! I am on my third try with tanning hides, the first 2 didn't turn out good enough to keep, I had to toss them. Hopefully third time is a charm! 
For those of you that mentioned having a hard time finding alum, I bought several lb. of alum from Van ***** for less than $10. Sorry I don't remember exactly what it costed, just Google Van ***** Taxidermy.


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