# Break-Barrel Air Rifle Suggestions...



## Fonzie (Nov 5, 2003)

My sister recently bought a house in a rural area and I finally have a place to shoot a bb gun with my 12 year old. 
I would like to suprise him for Christmas with maybe a Gamo "whisper" .177 cal, or a Remington Summit combo .177 cal. 
The fact of the matter is, I have never bought a decent quality break-barrel air rifle before. 
I would like to hear any and all advice on how to go about the purchasing process and what to look out for i.e. rookie mistakes, pitfalls etc. 
I sorta like the Gamo "whisper" because it would be more discreet. With the times we live in... discretion is important. 

Thanks In Advance

-Da Fonz


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## sugarbush (Jul 15, 2007)

Well for starters the high end air rifles like the gamo are not BB guns. They only shoot pellets. For the price I think you would have more fun with a 22 LR or Mag rifle. They are also more versatile. If you want break open action think about the savage 22/410. Then you have a 22 rifle that can also shoot shot shells and 38 special rounds.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

Is it rural enough to get him a 22 rifle? At 12 I was graduating from the bb/air guns and starting to squirrel hunt with a 22 single shot bolt action rifle. You had to hand feed it one 22 shell at a time. No magazines or tubes. So I had to make sure every shot count as there wasn't a fast back up bullet to reload with. 

With proper adult supervision I believe he would enjoy the 22 rifle better.


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## Raptor (Aug 29, 2005)

sugarbush said:


> If you want break open action think about the savage 22/410. Then you have a 22 rifle that can also shoot shot shells and 38 special rounds.



Correct me if I am wrong but the barrel needs to be rifled to shoot a 38 special round and the 410 barrel in the Savage is not rifled. Also the equivelant case size to a 410 would be a 45 long colt not a 38 special. Even then I would not try shooting it in the Savage 410 barrel.


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## Fonzie (Nov 5, 2003)

We're in suburban Chicago, so 22's are out. 
I think my son would be best suited to a quiet .177 cal air rifle.
We need to be as low-key as possible. We just have not decided on which air rifle to choose. I have heard many nice things about the Gamo "whisper" series of guns


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## Tom Bombadil (Mar 25, 2008)

The Gamo would get the job done given the situation.


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## CSA again (May 2, 2007)

Raptor said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but the barrel needs to be rifled to shoot a 38 special round and the 410 barrel in the Savage is not rifled. Also the equivelant case size to a 410 would be a 45 long colt not a 38 special. Even then I would not try shooting it in the Savage 410 barrel.


You are right 
DO NOT shoot 45LC in a 410 unless is is marked 410 / 45LC on the gun.
I think the 38 may fall through the chamber lodging in the barrel causeing a deadly situation where another shell may be loaded on top of the 38


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## CSA again (May 2, 2007)

heres some air guns to read up on

http://www.airgundepot.com/

http://www.airgunwarehouseinc.com/


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## Fonzie (Nov 5, 2003)

CSA again,
Thanks for the websites...now I'll be surfing all day.


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## quietstar (Dec 11, 2002)

Fonzie..for what it's worth, I bought a .177 cal. Weihrauch HW-50S about 16 years ago and find it handy and good quality. It is accurate enough that I installed a little 2.5 Weaver scope on it. It's a break-over like you want and has a sweet adjustable trigger. It is heavy, but that should be an asset to a young rifleman learning to hold steady...Glen


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## sugarbush (Jul 15, 2007)

CSA again said:


> You are right
> DO NOT shoot 45LC in a 410 unless is is marked 410 / 45LC on the gun.
> I think the 38 may fall through the chamber lodging in the barrel causeing a deadly situation where another shell may be loaded on top of the 38


I have done it 100s of times. Not accurate, but..... a 357 mag also fits, but I would never do that...I have shot 410 out of a 357 T/C encore barrel though.

If you are in Chicago and shooting firearms is not legal a bb gun/air rifle falls under the illegal catagory. The gamo type air rifles are not your run of the mill Daisy air guns.... These things are for real....(some here in Kentucky hunt and kill deer with air rifles) just as deadly as a 22 and have a pretty good range.....You may want to check and see what the penalty is for shooting in town prior to doing so.... Accidents can happen.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

sugarbush said:


> I have shot 410 out of a 357 T/C encore barrel though.


No, you haven't. It will not fit. Maybe you shot those long columned 357 snake shot loads TC used to make.


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## CSA again (May 2, 2007)

I just got my 410 out and droped a 38sp round in it .... 

It fell through the chamber and logded in the barrel Leaving room to load another 410 round on top ,

This can kill you, Please don't try this at home.

Just don't want anyone hurt 

thanks
Eddie


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## tallpaul (Sep 5, 2004)

Ed Norman said:


> No, you haven't. It will not fit. Maybe you shot those long columned 357 snake shot loads TC used to make.


I second that- some folks should not be near guns let alone giving advice on them... 


BTW check out 


http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/

and http://www.straightshooters.com/ good info there too...

I have had adult air rifles for over 30 years and my first was a HW50 and its still going strong... 

I would lean toward a hw30 or a beeman 9-7 for something you can enjoy for years and learn on. The quality is there.


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

I bought a Crosman 1000X a few years ago. I picked the Crosman for two reasons:
1. It was inexpensive (<$100 @ wallymart) 
2. Crosman is a local company and I like to support local industry when I can

My youngest DD was asking to learn how to shoot. The rifle is fine for target shooting and teaching the younger folks how to handle a fire arm safely. I've tried hunting squirrels with it a few times. It's only .177 cal so the only clean shot is a head shot. Very tough to consistently hit a target the size of a walnut with this rifle. 

I'm finding that the type / weight of the pellets makes a huge difference in consistency. Hollow points are out as they tumble too much...at least with my rifle. The pointed ammo is more aerodynamic and consistent.

Sound wise, the discharge is about the same as opening a can of soda. 

All in all the Crosman is a middle of the road air rifle...reasonable price, good for practice and teaching safety but lacking if your looking to consistently drive tacks with it.


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## alchemist317 (Nov 12, 2008)

http://www.pyramydair.com/

Some to consider:

http://www.pyramydair.com/p/benjamin-discovery-air-rifle.shtml (Pre-charged Pneumatic [PCP] .22 air rifle with pump included)

http://www.pyramydair.com/p/rws-460-magnum-air-rifle.shtml (Pricey underlever model, but capable of 1000+ fps with decent weight pellets)

http://www.pyramydair.com/p/evanix-renegade-air-rifle.shtml (Double action PCP .22 air rifle - 6 shot semi-auto. Pump not included)


And for fun where firearms laws are obnoxious

http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/show.pl?cmd_rifles=show_guns_caliber&Caliber=0.350 (9mm PCP air rifles)

http://www.pyramydair.com/p/big-bore-909s-sam-yang.shtml (.45 cal PCP air rifle)

http://www.pyramydair.com/p/career-dragon-slayer-50-caliber-air-rifle.shtml (.50 cal PCP air rifle)


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## Fonzie (Nov 5, 2003)

alchemist317,
It's funny you brought up that pyramyd site.
I think I have settled on the following gun.
It's not top-of-the-line, but it's good enough for my boy and I.

http://www.pyramydair.com/p/ruger-air-hawk-air-rifle.shtml

-I like the hardwood stock.
-I like the fiber optic sites {in case we remove the scope}.
-I like the the adjustable trigger.
-I like the reviews as well.


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## alchemist317 (Nov 12, 2008)

I've always had good experiences dealing with Pyramid - one thing in particular I've found is that they actually keep their website up to date. With some other vendors I've ordered something only to be told that it's discontinued or out of stock and they just couldn't be bothered to update the site.

If you're looking to be discreet and accurate, I'd recommend looking at their pellet selection and picking something slightly heavier than average - certainly don't go for the ultra-light "high-velocity" ammo. The reason is that an air rifle can be very quiet and accurate if the round is sub-sonic (<1100-1200fps). Once the round goes supersonic, you get the rifle "crack" sound and accuracy falls off dramatically (because the "diablo" shaped pellets can't stabilize the round under supersonic conditions).


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## Fonzie (Nov 5, 2003)

alchemist317 said:


> I've always had good experiences dealing with Pyramid - one thing in particular I've found is that they actually keep their website up to date. With some other vendors I've ordered something only to be told that it's discontinued or out of stock and they just couldn't be bothered to update the site.
> 
> If you're looking to be discreet and accurate, I'd recommend looking at their pellet selection and picking something slightly heavier than average - certainly don't go for the ultra-light "high-velocity" ammo. The reason is that an air rifle can be very quiet and accurate if the round is sub-sonic (<1100-1200fps). Once the round goes supersonic, you get the rifle "crack" sound and accuracy falls off dramatically (because the "diablo" shaped pellets can't stabilize the round under supersonic conditions).




Excellent points!


.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I have done it 100s of times. Not accurate, but..... a 357 mag also fits, but I would never do that...I have shot 410 out of a 357 T/C encore barrel though.


Typical Dimensions of .410 Shotshells 

Rim OD 0.533" 
Head OD 0.4685" 
Mouth 0.4675-0.4630 
Length 2," 2 Â½," 3" 51, 64, 76 mm 

38 Special:

Case mouth 0.379
Rim 0.440

I think youre confused about what "youve shot" and to advocate shooting ANY cartridge in ANY gun not specifically designed for it is both FOOLISH and DANGEROUS


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## Fonzie (Nov 5, 2003)

Well, here's the gun I'll surprise my son with. Just picked it up yesterday.


http://www.pyramydair.com/p/ruger-air-hawk-air-rifle.shtml




.


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## CSA again (May 2, 2007)

Hey Fonzie ..
Looks like a good solid gun . Maybe the best one in its price range.
I love the Ruger name. How old is your son? With a little practice, Bet he can put a rats eye out at 40 ft.


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## Fonzie (Nov 5, 2003)

CSA again said:


> Hey Fonzie ..
> Looks like a good solid gun . Maybe the best one in its price range.
> I love the Ruger name. How old is your son? With a little practice, Bet he can put a rats eye out at 40 ft.


He's gonna be 13 in a few months...
I can't wait to surprise him Christmas morning. {He thinks he has ZERO chance of EVER getting a pellet rifle}.


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

Fonzie said:


> He's gonna be 13 in a few months...
> I can't wait to surprise him Christmas morning. {He thinks he has ZERO chance of EVER getting a pellet rifle}.


Man, I'll bet he's gonna' flip out. I've got real fond memories of getting my first pellet gun for Christmas, and I've no doubt the squirrels in grandma's yard still have nightmares about that day.

That Ruger looks nearly identical to my Gamo 220 Hunter, which is a really good air rifle for the money.

Most likely, the new rifle will produce tighter groups over the course of the first few hundred firings as the spring breaks in and gets a little more consistent....spring-piston air rifles are notorious for this. They tend to be finicky as can be about the fodder, too. Mine (and most spring-pistons that I've used, for that matter) likes heavier pellets, although she does pretty well with the RWS hollow points, too. Hates any of the pointed pellets I've tried, and keyholes 'em even at very short ranges. An assortment of different pellets to try out would sure make a nice stocking stuffer.
Watch out for excess oil in the barrell after cleaning....a big "no-no" for spring-pistons. If you hear it diesling, run a dry patch through, as you've probably got excess oil in there.


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

Yes, I think he will be very happy with that Ruger. I have the Gamo Hunter and it shoots good and will knock them squirrels out of the tallest trees.I started shooting those Raptor highspeed pellets, but they won't shoot tight groups in my gun, so I use Crosman Premier hollowpoints,they shoot very good groups and are poison on squirrels.Tell your wife she might as well find some good squirrell recipes cause she's gunna be needing them.lol Eddie


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## Fonzie (Nov 5, 2003)

EDDIE BUCK said:


> Yes, I think he will be very happy with that Ruger. I have the Gamo Hunter and it shoots good and will knock them squirrels out of the tallest trees.I started shooting those Raptor highspeed pellets, but they won't shoot tight groups in my gun, so I use Crosman Premier hollowpoints,they shoot very good groups and are poison on squirrels.Tell your wife she might as well find some good squirrell recipes cause she's gunna be needing them.lol Eddie


Years ago, I used to shoot the old pump-up and CO2 air rifles. The gun I bought will be a huge improvement over those out dated rifles. From what I've read on the internet, if a person wants to hunt small game and/or do some longer distance plinking, a high quality heavy lead pellet is best. Some of the fancy, high speed pellets lose accuracy and killing power at longer distances. I'm told a heavy pellet is best but I will sacrifice some FPS out of the barrel.


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

Fonzie said:


> Years ago, I used to shoot the old pump-up and CO2 air rifles. The gun I bought will be a huge improvement over those out dated rifles. From what I've read on the internet, if a person wants to hunt small game and/or do some longer distance plinking, a high quality heavy lead pellet is best. Some of the fancy, high speed pellets lose accuracy and killing power at longer distances. I'm told a heavy pellet is best but I will sacrifice some FPS out of the barrel.


The best pellet to use for hunting is the one that fires most accurately from the rifle, and you ain't gonna' know which one that is until y'all do some experimenting. You might be suprised, too....the regular ol' crossman pellets from Wally's shoot straighter out of my gun than do several high-end match grade pellets I've tried.
Beyond all the marketing fluff, fancy packaging, and cool-sounding names lies the fact that that @ 1000 fps, and with the relatively miniscule difference in grainage of .177 pellets, the terminal ballistics just ain't gonna' vary that much. In the end, there ain't a whole lot of ft/lbs to be spared, making shot placement way more important than a few tenths of a grain of weight, a pointy tip,or a hollow point. A bad shot is still a bad shot with whatever pellet you use, but a shot to the melon is......well.....tell momma to bust out the crock put, 'cuz it's finna' be supper time.
That said, I've yet to run across a spring-piston gun that likes the lightweight, high-speed pellets. In my experience, the heavier pellets are more stable in every way. They might drop a little faster, but it's a more consistent trajectory, and they've got a little more oomph left when the reach their destination.


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

Fonzie said:


> Years ago, I used to shoot the old pump-up and CO2 air rifles. The gun I bought will be a huge improvement over those out dated rifles. Some of the fancy, high speed pellets lose accuracy and killing power at longer distances. I'm told a heavy pellet is best but I will sacrifice some FPS out of the barrel.


 Thats right,when speed starts knocking down accuracy,time to slow up a little.



swamp man said:


> The best pellet to use for hunting is the one that fires most accurately from the rifle.
> That said, I've yet to run across a spring-piston gun that likes the lightweight, high-speed pellets. In my experience, the heavier pellets are more stable in every way. They might drop a little faster, but it's a more consistent trajectory, and they've got a little more oomph left when the reach their destination.


 Me either,I've not heard anyone say those high speed pellets shoot with any accuracy.I don't care if it throws bricks,if you can't hit anything with it, your gamebag is still empty.They might be ok at real close range,but when I tried them they hit all over the paper. I think I tried four different styles before those Crosman Premiers passed the test. But like you said,try different pellets till you find one YOUR gun shoots accurate. I can almost smell that squirrel and gravy now. Eddie


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## alchemist317 (Nov 12, 2008)

swamp man said:


> The best pellet to use for hunting is the one that fires most accurately from the rifle, and you ain't gonna' know which one that is until y'all do some experimenting. You might be suprised, too....the regular ol' crossman pellets from Wally's shoot straighter out of my gun than do several high-end match grade pellets I've tried.


Very true. The Crossman Premier full-box can be a great deal if your gun likes them, as the boxes are all cut from the same die, so the pellets tend to be very similar in performance across the lot. 




swamp man said:


> Beyond all the marketing fluff, fancy packaging, and cool-sounding names lies the fact that that @ 1000 fps, and with the relatively miniscule difference in grainage of .177 pellets, the terminal ballistics just ain't gonna' vary that much. In the end, there ain't a whole lot of ft/lbs to be spared, making shot placement way more important than a few tenths of a grain of weight, a pointy tip,or a hollow point. A bad shot is still a bad shot with whatever pellet you use, but a shot to the melon is......well.....tell momma to bust out the crock put, 'cuz it's finna' be supper time.


Have to disagree a little here. It's true that the "common" pellet manufacturers are generally similar, but there's a huge range of pellet masses even in .177 - I can find pellets as low as 4.5 grains, or as high as 16.1 grains. And at a "nominal" 1000fps, you're close enough to supersonic that light pellets will lose accuracy. I personally prefer .22 in small-caliber air rifles, as you get the same delivered energy at a lower speed, and I tend to think they expand better than the tiny .177 pellets. That said, the 9mm air rifle is fun too.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Daisy has always been a good brand (and they are guaranteed forever.) I know it sounds like the old Christmas show, but they really are good beginner rifles for a kid to learn with. 

The Daisy factory is close to my dads place. Every now and then I pick up an old bb gun at a yard sale for a little of nothing, then when I go visit dad, I take it to the factory where they replace it with a brand new one.  Nope, nothing wrong with that, I'm up front with them about it. They're quick to point out that they guarantee their product, not the owner.


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

alchemist317 said:


> Have to disagree a little here. It's true that the "common" pellet manufacturers are generally similar, but there's a huge range of pellet masses even in .177 - I can find pellets as low as 4.5 grains, or as high as 16.1 grains. And at a "nominal" 1000fps, you're close enough to supersonic that light pellets will lose accuracy. I personally prefer .22 in small-caliber air rifles, as you get the same delivered energy at a lower speed, and I tend to think they expand better than the tiny .177 pellets. That said, the 9mm air rifle is fun too.


I stand corrected. Never seen .177's nearly that heavy. Who makes 'em?

I picked up a box of the steel-tipped Gamo "rocket" pellets the other day. Grainage isn't listed, but they look pretty heavy, and make a much deeper dent in the old refrigerator/shooting victim in my junk pile than even the RWS super-mags do. No bench test yet, but I'll be suprised if they don't go pretty straight.


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## alchemist317 (Nov 12, 2008)

swamp man said:


> I stand corrected. Never seen .177's nearly that heavy. Who makes 'em?
> 
> I picked up a box of the steel-tipped Gamo "rocket" pellets the other day. Grainage isn't listed, but they look pretty heavy, and make a much deeper dent in the old refrigerator/shooting victim in my junk pile than even the RWS super-mags do. No bench test yet, but I'll be suprised if they don't go pretty straight.


http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/pellet.pl?pellet_id=284

They're made by Eun Jin - a Korean company I believe. They generally manufacture some of the heaviest pellets you're going to find.


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