# Cabin/homestead basement plans and questions.



## icentropy (Jul 5, 2013)

My wife and i are planning on starting to build our house on our land next year (we're currently living in a single wide that was already on the property) and i've been gathering all my research from homesteading, prepping, etc to try to design the ideal house for this area and for our family that could be built on a limited budget over the time span of a few years. I think i've done it but i figured I'd bounce the idea off of anyone hear to get some opinions. Background info, we live at 4000ft, right below canada in north central WA. Winters get down to -20F and summers up to 90F. Wood is our primary form of heat but we also like electric oil filled radiator heaters for keeping bedrooms toasty at night. The water table around here is very low, we have a well that's around 300ft deep and barely supports the current mobile home. We plan on drilling a new one down to 500 to get to the real water for our new home.

The heart of the house would be the basement. A 25' X 40' two story basement made of cinder block reinforced with rebar and filled with cement.

The bottom floor would be split in half, one side would house the wood furnace and ducts large enough to provide convection heating to the upper two stories as well as 12 cords of wood. The other side would be split into three rooms (cinderblock walls) one with a dirt floor to function as a root cellar, the second would be cement floor to be used as a man cave/ reloading bench, gun safe, etc, and the third with cement floor for storage of supplies, food stuffs, tools, etc. The block walls would provide for an easier to support floor for the upper basement.

The upper basement floor would be a daylight basement with the upper 3 feet sticking out of the ground and a walkout area at the back of the house. it would be insulated down to the frost line so about 2/3 of the upper basement would be insulated. the bedrooms and bathrooms as well as well as a storage area would be there. From the outside the cinderblocks and insulation would be covered in local field rocks to give the impression of an old fashion rock foundation. each room would have at least one small window to bring light in during the day.

The upper (above ground) floor would be the kitchen, family room, dining area, pantry and small 1/2 bathroom which is where we'd spend all our time usually. It would also be made of cinderblock but would be coated on the outside with logs cut in half (bark left on) and on the inside with cheap T&G wood planks. Basic insulated metal roof with metal rafters and purlins. 

From the outside our little cabin would look like an oldtime 1000sqft log house on a rock foundation. inside it would be a 3000sqft modern fireproof home that uses the wonderful 55Â° earth temp to keep the whole house warmer during the cold winters and a blower would pump that cool basement air into the house during the summer. None of my water lines would ever freeze and our root cellar would be conveniently located.

There would be a long chute located under the floor of the upper basement walkout that would lead directly to the lower basement for dropping the firewood into.

Well that's basically the rough idea of what i think would be a perfect home for my fam located in homesteading country where old log cabins are a common sight. it wouldn't stick out at all. My only concern is what would be required to build a two story basement (we have our own backhoe for excavation) but as far as thickness of walls, and whether 8" cinderblock would be strong enough (filled with cement and rebar of course) Also when going down that deep how much of a foundation is really needed if the whole basement will sit on a poured cement pad? I'm thinking just digging a trench around the outer perimeter and when the floor is poured the trench would in essence be the foundation. Also I'm concerned the bedrooms would feel too much like a bunker with only small windows located high up on the walls, but i'm hoping good lighting, paint selection and use of mirrors can keep the bedrooms/bathrooms cheery and bright. 

Whatcha think? any feedback? any advice on the pros, cons and challenges a two story basement would present?


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## SimplerTimez (Jan 20, 2008)

Sounds interesting! I'll be looking to see what the regulars with building experience have to say.

Welcome to HT, by the way. We love photos of progress, so make sure you post them. It encourages everyone 

~ST


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## BlueRose (Mar 7, 2013)

Welcome. A two story basement. Like your ideas. ST is right check with local builders. 
Pics are a requirement here


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

That's going to be a tall basement wall on the uphill side. You may need engineering to be sure it is strong enough. I'm not a big fan of block; just not strong enough. Filling and rebar will help, but it's nowhere near as strong as poured-in-place. I've read that surface-bonded block is stronger and easier, FWIW.

Have you thought about ICF? You have the benefits of a poured and reinforced wall, along with R-25 or so insulation. That's what my build is, both the basement and the aboveground. It may be too expensive for you, though.

Whatever you do, make sure you study up on waterproofing, and follow the instructions. You want a waterproof membrane, dimple board to protect the membrane and aid drainage, gravel for backfill, and a perimeter drain and sump pump. If you can run a pipe downhill, you don't need the pump.

Footings are very important, especially with that much weight on it. Find out what the local recommendations are for footing size, as local conditions vary. You need a very level footing for block or ICF, or you will fight it trying to straighten it out as you go up. There need to be pieces of rebar sticking up out of the footer to key the walls to it. Usually, you go up a few courses of block or ICF, then pour the slab inside of it, which further strengthens the bottom of the wall. The top of a basement wall is greatly strengthened by the floor diaphragm. It's important that this completed before you backfill.

If you are subject to building codes (actually, everyone is, but they may not be enforced) all separate rooms in a basement need egress windows, which consist of a big enough window to climb out of, coupled with a window well going to the surface. Deep ones even have a built in ladder to climb out. Even if you're not worried about building codes, basement rooms without egress are a death trap in a fire. Our basement is a walk-out, with windows and a door in the back. The front (uphill) side has no windows, so I couldn't (and wouldn't) enclose separate rooms there.

Basements will always be damp, so you need to plan on dehumidification. The damp isn't from water leaking in; it's from condensation from humid air. Warm air can hold more moisture than cool air, so in the cool of a basement, relative humidity climbs to uncomfortable and sometimes unhealthy (mold growing) levels. My basement is bone dry, but here in the humid southeast, I'm running a dehumidifier to make it comfortable. I'm emptying about 10 gallons a day from a 1200 square foot basement.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I've heard about light tubes that move sunlight just like water pipes move water and you can pipe real sunlight anywhere in the house.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

MushCreek covered quite a few points. Drainage is where most folks go wrong. Having a low water table helps. However surface water can be an issue. As mentioned do not backfill with soil. I'd use geotextile on all sides of the drainage excavation before backfilling with gravel. Then cover the top of the backfill with the ends of the geotextile fabric that extend up along he wall and the soil. Place the drain pipe so the holes are down. Daylight the end of the pipe.

Since you have to excavate down to the base slab, extend the insulation on the block wall all of the way down to even with the bottom of the slab. That's best for energy savings. Insert a continuous water stop into the slab under the block. The block will have to be notched to make a place for it. Make sure rainfall off the roof is piped away from the uphill side. Use a separate drain besides the foundation drain.

Using gravel around the foundation will take pressure off the block walls as compared to some soils with much greater active earth pressure. Clay is the absolute worst backfill material. I would use grout rather than concrete to fill the block cells. You can use concrete. Unless you use small aggregate you run the risk of bridging forming a void. Grout won't bridge.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

I built on a hillside and I am so glad I poured a 10 inch wall with 2 rebar walls tied to the footer and used a 7 bag mix with 1 1\2 inch stone. The pressure from all the rain and mud is a lot and a block wouldn't take the load. 7 bag mix is almost waterproof and 10 inch is super strong.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

40 foot long cinderblock wall, 2 stories high? You need an engineer's advice. Probably gonna need buttresses. Sounds like a neat overall plan, just make darn sure that foundation is everything it needs to be.


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## Tall Grille (May 4, 2011)

fishhead said:


> I've heard about light tubes that move sunlight just like water pipes move water and you can pipe real sunlight anywhere in the house.


We installed a "Sun Tube" in my grandmothers house when we re-did the roof. It is a tube with a polished inside diameter that reflects light out a lens at the bottom. The top has a clear bubble top that looks like a vent of some sort. Even on an overcast day it looks as if there is a light on. I would not say it adds a "Natural" light feeling but it helps in a dark area.


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## icentropy (Jul 5, 2013)

Hi all, thanks for the pointers and advice. I've been doing some more research and I'm leaning towards trying to drystack the basement and also fill with rebar and cement. The drystacking coating is supposed to make it stronger than traditional mortar and also add the benefit of waterproofing the wall. i hope that there's a good chance that with that as well as filling the wall 100% with rebar and cement it should work. I will however get the advice of an engineer before i begin. I just wanted to get a good idea of what should work so i can plan the building almost completely and just bring the finished plans to an engineer as a consultation. I do like the idea of the ICFs but i think i would only go that route if my only other option was poured walls. I think ICFs would be cheaper to do myself than hiring out a company to do all the work for poured walls.


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## T-Bone 369 (Jan 18, 2007)

I have to agree with MushCreek on the viability of block walls, especially in a freeze/thaw area. Gravel on the perimeter will help but eventually it will wash full of sediments and loose effectiveness. Block walls crack - whether laid with mortar or drystacked and plastered, cavities filled or not. It's just a fact of life. I have not seen a build on a block basement here in over 20 years, but have repaired several. If your absolutely determined to do it 8's are not going to cut it, especially with the 1/2 logs as siding. Those are going to need a ledge just like brick. So you looking at 12's in the basement area up to ground level and then 8's above grade. Typically a basement floor has dug footing around the perimeter lower than the top of the finished basement floor which is poured after the walls are in place. That will 100% insure that they walls can not move in after backfilling. That's done with any type of basement wall. 

I like the idea of ICF's to grade (they are still have to be 12" walls for the ledge if your planning on using 8's and half-logs above grade). They are pretty simple to use and with a set of hands or two you probably could do them yourself. I think in the long term your going to be much happier with the results. 

As pointed out earlier, egress windows are pretty much a given. Again, this is going to be something that you need to verify with your local code authority as there are some different requirements as to size. Trust me, there is nothing worse than having to cut in a window after a foundation is finished.

Also, you really can not do too much waterproofing on the exterior. It's one of those cases where belt and suspenders (and maybe a rope or two) is best. IMHO this is one place that most builders do the minimum and should in actuality do more. With a new build everything is exposed and easily done and never will be again. It's all part of a system along with graded slope and gutters to get water away from the wall but once it's backfilled you can not see it. Out of site, out of mind does not apply here. 

It sounds like a really interesting project - looking forward to updated.


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