# This will stir some folks up but I want serious answers



## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

I guess after being raised on a sheep ranch and now raising my own what is the big thing about hair sheep? IMO and it is only my opinion the wool also gives a second income as well as the meat and maybe milk if you choose to buy a breed of milk sheep. 

I can't see that there would be much difference between having goats and hair sheep. I like goats and have several milk goats myself but the hair sheep just baffle me.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

Hair sheep dont have wool. Its hair. Not for spinning. From what I can tell they are only good for meat. I hard people say the mat taste better because they dont have the lanolin in them and they dont need to be sheared as they shed instead.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

If you don't have sheep with a higher quality wool shearing ends up being a cost instead of an income. For some who raise sheep in smaller numbers it can also be difficult to find a shearer.


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## SilverFlame819 (Aug 24, 2010)

Some people like the taste of meat, but have no desire to deal with wool. Simple enough.


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## suzyhomemaker09 (Sep 24, 2004)

Yep
Yep and Yep

I have Icelandics
We got them for milk and meat......
I have absolutely no desire to work fiber nor do my children.
Cost effective...sure..I have a neighbor down the way that will come shear my animals for a paltry $5 a head....
But then I have all this beautiful wool piling up that I have no use for.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

I like making the extra from the wool but I do understand some not wanting to mess with it. I do have a question that stems from someones comment. Mutton is an older sheep, well at least in wool sheep but they made it sound like it is only wool sheep. Is there not mutton in hair sheep?


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

It was over in the thread am i missing something posted by traceracer. Honestly I know nothing about hair sheep. Curious?


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## bknthesdle (Mar 27, 2011)

I got my hair sheep after looking for a starter flock and reading about how hardy the lambs were and how easily the ewes lamb. The deciding factor was that I only wanted 10 ewes. I live in the middle of nowhere and I couldn't find anyone to come up here for so few head to shear a wool breed. So the hair sheep was right up my alley. Then to top it off, I love their personality (which does remind me of a goat)...and if I wanted to milk them..I could. I know a lady in ID who uses Katahdins as her milk breed....she makes cheeses, soaps and lotion out of the milk.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

A few things are attractive about them. No shearing costs is a big one. Wool in your run of the mill commercial flock, often barely covering the shearing charges.

No handling the sheep roughly at important times like near lambing.

No tail docking is necessary.

They have greater resistance to internal parasites.

They do better on lower protein feeds, like grass hay.

Wool is an afterthought now, unless you have specialty wool breeds, or a means to shear and spin a bit for a cottage industry or hobby for the most part.


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## tracerracer (Oct 6, 2012)

Hair sheep don't have what would be considered 'mutton'... From what I've seen the lanolin that 'woolies' produce and hair sheep that 'blow their coat' do not, that can greatly affect the meat( I know there is a 'sheep term' for that, just can't remember it) I like traditional lamb for eating, this is NOT the same........

I frankly am not a 'fan' of sheep....... My DH brought them up for our pastures after seeing some Barbados Blackbelly sheep a coworker of his has......... I to be truthful, said something to the effect "over my dead body" .... ( I've worked some several yrs ago and they could 'jump over' me in one leap and were very 'flighty') But, I started researching and ran across St Croix and Dorpers ............ I prefer the dorpers and their legs are too short/bodies too heavy to get very far off the ground ( the highest mine have 'jumped' is about 6") They also are 'content and don't challenge fences ( unless 'fleeing') You could in no way say that about goats  and over the last 3 yrs, I have grown fond of my flock

I live in the 'wet side' of Oregon ( yes, there is a 'dry side') and foot rot runs rampant through flocks of woolies here........ Not with hair sheep......... and hoof trimming isn't a common thing either............. I have read that they are 'resistant' to parasites, but after losing 2 to Coccidia ( my vet is pretty sure) I have a regular schedule now......... They also seem to be MUCH 'calmer' that other breeds....... Even the ones that came from a 'hands off' ranch don't 'run screaming' in panic

There is no 'need' for grain ( in fact, I've been told they will do poorer on it) Grass hay, only in the winter and not much of it is enough to keep 'em fat and sassy

Their meat is extremely lean and tender ( coming from a 'beef background', that sounded like an oxymoron to me before having it  ) Very mild in flavor and fine grained.. You cook it like beef, for us, that's medium rare, excellent ...... I can't speak to the meat of older animals ( 3+yrs), but friends have told me there is very little difference between it and lamb meat ....... Someday, more than likely, I will have 'first hand' knowledge of that .........


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## bknthesdle (Mar 27, 2011)

tracerracer said:


> There is no 'need' for grain ( in fact, I've been told they will do poorer on it) Grass hay, only in the winter and not much of it is enough to keep 'em fat and sassy


What do you feed prior to lambing?


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## tracerracer (Oct 6, 2012)

bknthesdle said:


> What do you feed prior to lambing?


About 2 weeks or so before lambing, they get some alfalfa to 'supplement' and that continues through to weaning ( alfalfa gives the best milk, has a little more 'umph' than the orchard-timothy grass )

Now, to be 'clear', I live in a 'mild' winter area............ My ground rarely freezes and if it does, it's only for a week or so.......... If I still lived on the 'other side' of Oregon, I would be feeding out more, I'm sure ...................


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

I agree with the OP. In terms of production, the hair ewes do not keep up with the wool ewes in terms of pounds of lamb produced. The greater growth of the wool lambs more than makes up for the shearing cost. I run a production model based upon low cost, low input methods, mainly pasture-lambing and grass finishing. My wool ewes are no more trouble than the hair ewes, but they earn me more money. The hair breeds have an advantage in hot, humid climates perhaps, but for the Midwest, they just don't measure up in terms of monetary return.


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## sgsnoco (Oct 12, 2012)

Icelandic wool is super easy to sell, even raw unprocessed wool, at least from what I've seen.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Here's a nice article on hair sheep. 
http://www.sheepmagazine.com/issues/24/24-6/John_Kirchhoff.html


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## littlebitfarm (Mar 21, 2005)

Hair sheep happily stay inside my fences. Goats wait at the road for the school bus. Easy choice here!

Kathie


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

I don't really get the appeal either, though I know they've got some good qualities just like wooled breeds. My Romneys were extremely foot rot resistant, my Southdowns (not baby dolls) have been super easy keepers feed-wise. Plus, I like the wool. I guess if I couldn't shear them myself I'd possibly look into hair sheep, but I'm just not ready to get any of them.


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## tracerracer (Oct 6, 2012)

MDKatie said:


> I don't really get the appeal either, though I know they've got some good qualities just like wooled breeds. My Romneys were extremely foot rot resistant, my Southdowns (not baby dolls) have been super easy keepers feed-wise. Plus, I like the wool. I guess if I couldn't shear them myself I'd possibly look into hair sheep, but I'm just not ready to get any of them.


I did the hair sheep, mostly to avoid the wool... I'm never gonna have 'enough' to make it worth a shearer's trouble ( they are scarcer than hen's theeth in my area) Plus, I just wanted meat production......... Nice thing is, there are choices and I didn't have to get goats ( nothing against goats, really, I have met good 'uns, just not my cup of tea)


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## farmmaid (Jan 13, 2003)

The up-scale restaurants in NYC want the meat from hair sheep, milder and "sweeter"..We were graded A+...........I am going to start milking my Katahdins this year.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Hair sheep don't taste like lamb (I don't like lamb or mutton). I like goat and hair sheep meat. Different taste all together. hair sheep have more meat than the goats I have eaten, but.... I haven't had boer goat meat....James


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## Remuda1 (Oct 26, 2011)

As far as pounds of lamb produced, I thought that most woollies were seasonal breeders? Most hair sheep (certainly dorpers) are capable of lambing three times within two years. It would be so interesting to see study results on this topic. 

Hair sheep were appealing to me for many of the reasons above. I needed something that I could manage largely on my own (5'1", 50 year old female). The shorter, smaller aspects of the hair sheep were a good fit. I didn't want anything flighty though since its just me. And then there's the issue of the wool..... Nobody in my area sheers and certainly not for a small flock. Wool here sells cheap so it wouldn't pay for itself to harvest it. I've eaten lamb from my own flock and enjoyed it very much. It does have a nice, mild flavor. I love it on the grill. Dorpers have been a good fit and sell well per pound usually. They are also in fairly good demand here as breeders. I AM interested in St. Croix as well after reading some good studies on their parasite resistance.


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## tracerracer (Oct 6, 2012)

Remuda1 said:


> As far as pounds of lamb produced, I thought that most woollies were seasonal breeders? Most hair sheep (certainly dorpers) are capable of lambing three times within two years. It would be so interesting to see study results on this topic.
> 
> Hair sheep were appealing to me for many of the reasons above. I needed something that I could manage largely on my own (5'1", 50 year old female). The shorter, smaller aspects of the hair sheep were a good fit. I didn't want anything flighty though since its just me. And then there's the issue of the wool..... Nobody in my area sheers and certainly not for a small flock. Wool here sells cheap so it wouldn't pay for itself to harvest it. I've eaten lamb from my own flock and enjoyed it very much. It does have a nice, mild flavor. I love it on the grill. Dorpers have been a good fit and sell well per pound usually. They are also in fairly good demand here as breeders. I AM interested in St. Croix as well after reading some good studies on their parasite resistance.


I could say pretty much the same thing... Dorpers are short and so am I ( 5' 3/16" (every little bit counts at my size )) For a moment when I read your St Croix comment, my first thought was, " Oh, I know a ranch with beautiful animals and really nice people", until I saw Texas  lol


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Add to this, I haven't found a mean Dorper ram yet. I can't say that for the wool breeds. I run my ram in with the ewes year-round, and never have to worry about watching out for the ram. 

Checking my records, I get a 7 month turn around; a ewe that gives me twins or triplets and breeds back while nursing two month-old lambs, is impressive in my book.

I do feed good alfalfa/orchard grass hay in the sheep barn for awhile. They NEED that alfalfa when they are feeding triplets. I also feed a smidge of grain laced with DE between wormings. Other than that, good mineral mixed with kelp. They love their kelp.


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

There are many wool breeds that will breed aseasonally. The Michigan Sheep Extension specialist runs an accelerated lambing program with a commercial wool cross of Ile de France/Finn/Dorset. The Cornell "Star" system of accelerated lambing also uses wool crosses. Accelerated lambing is an intensive system of production based upon high feed and labor inputs, as well as barn space for winter lambing. When done well, it can be very impressive model for production.


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

The wool check does not cover the cost of shearing, however, the greater pounds of lamb produced from a wool ewe versus that of a hair ewe more than offsets the cost difference. The wool ewes I own drop the same amount of lambs as the hair ewes, but their lambs are larger and grow faster and bigger on the same feed, which is pasture and hay, no grain inputs.

I totally agree that a smaller sized ewe makes handling much easier for a small person. I prefer a moderately sized wool ewe for the same reason. I sold off my 200 lbs. North Country Cheviots ewes because I was getting knocked around too much. I prefer a wool ewe in the 165-180 lb. range.

My hair ewes, which I have just sold the last of, have been very good to me. Easy lambers, good mothers, prolific with vigorous lambs, good feet, etc. But in terms of production value (pounds of lamb produced), they didn't pencil out.


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## Mattemma (Jan 1, 2013)

Been reading final rights which led to some online searches.Anway, I came across a site selling wool coffins and ash boxes. Quite pretty.Another use for wool!

http://www.naturallegacy.com/Default.aspx?alias=www.naturallegacy.com/us


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

There are some hair sheep with respectable gains out there, you just have to go for good breeding. Many of us lump the various breeds together and judge them as one type. This would be sort of like taking a mixed mash of wool breeds and comparing them to the best Dorpers. However I do think there is still room for improvement. Here is a link to an evaluation of Katahdins bred to Columbia and Hampshire ewes for 50% and 75% lambs. 
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/hettingerrec...ication/EVALUATION OF KATAHDIN HAIR SHEEP.pdf
"I_*ncreasing percentages of Katahdin breeding in these commercial lambs decreased average daily
gains when compared to control lambs sired by Columbia and Hampshire rams. At the same
time, the Katahdin sired lambs ate less per day and appeared to be slightly more efficient in their
use of feed than the controls. Additional numbers of higher percentage Katahdin lambs are
needed to confirm this*_"


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

Remuda1 said:


> As far as pounds of lamb produced, I thought that most woollies were seasonal breeders? Most hair sheep (certainly dorpers) are capable of lambing three times within two years. It would be so interesting to see study results on this topic.
> 
> Hair sheep were appealing to me for many of the reasons above. I needed something that I could manage largely on my own (5'1", 50 year old female). The shorter, smaller aspects of the hair sheep were a good fit. I didn't want anything flighty though since its just me. And then there's the issue of the wool..... Nobody in my area sheers and certainly not for a small flock. Wool here sells cheap so it wouldn't pay for itself to harvest it. I've eaten lamb from my own flock and enjoyed it very much. It does have a nice, mild flavor. I love it on the grill. Dorpers have been a good fit and sell well per pound usually. They are also in fairly good demand here as breeders. I AM interested in St. Croix as well after reading some good studies on their parasite resistance.


Some are seasonal breeders, however breeds like the dorsets will breed all year.


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## bknthesdle (Mar 27, 2011)

Judy in IN said:


> Add to this, I haven't found a mean Dorper ram yet. I can't say that for the wool breeds. I run my ram in with the ewes year-round, and never have to worry about watching out for the ram.
> 
> Checking my records, I get a 7 month turn around; a ewe that gives me twins or triplets and breeds back while nursing two month-old lambs, is impressive in my book.
> 
> I do feed good alfalfa/orchard grass hay in the sheep barn for awhile. They NEED that alfalfa when they are feeding triplets. I also feed a smidge of grain laced with DE between wormings. Other than that, good mineral mixed with kelp. They love their kelp.


You should meet my Dorper ram. He is fine when he is with the ewes. (but I wouldn't turn my back on him. And if you get close enough, he will ram you.) But when you take him away and he is in a pen, he will ram around the pen if I try to reach for his water bucket or need to fix something. He always aims for my hands.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

All good reasoning I think, however I like the once a year lambing. Plenty of time to get ewes in good shape and I believe it is why we have such quality lambs each time. I really believe (IMO) that it prolongs their lambing life.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

I've heard the theory of hair breed meat tasting sweeter or more mild, but I haven't had the chance to test it. I've eaten my own lamb, various breeds (Suffolk cross, Romney, and I just took 2 Southdowns to the butcher today), and they've been delicious. My Romney ram was just over a year when we butchered him and the meat was still delicious and not at all "off"/gamey/strong tasting. I'd love to try Dorper or something.


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

You know, I think its like any other animal. Take Boer goats for example. During the boer craze, everyone got into them and most people couldn't afford the cost of a good boer buck, and so folks got into "percentage" breeding, creating boer-looking percentage goats that sold for less than a full boer. Along with the price coming down, so did the quality. Now, you can find "percentage" boers who are very sub-par at every sale barn in America. Its the same with hair sheep. We're seeing a hair sheep craze where everyone and his brother are getting into hair sheep. A lot of folks around here are interested in the dorpers as they really do muscle up nicely. (we have some ewes who actually look like rams they are so "beefy".) But pure/full dorpers can be pricey...very pricey, so a lot of sheep farms have relied on "percentage" dorpers. Now, don't get me wrong, relying on percentage animals can be a good thing if you have a breeding plan to breed out negatives and emphasize the positives within the breed. Sadly, most small flock owners don't do this. Culling is painful, especially with a breed that tends to run on the expensive end as dorpers do. Now you can find many, many "percentage" dorpers at the sale barns, most of which don't emphasize the best qualities of the breed. We've seen many that are bred to wool sheep and don't seem to have the best characteristics of either breed. 
We paid a LOT of money for our rams, however, you have to remember that your ram is half of your flock. An inferior ram is going to mean half of your flock is inferior. When we first started out, we tried to cut corners, and our flock suffered for it. We invested in a good ram (an it was an investment, believe me!) and our flock reflects that. 
I know this holds true for all livestock, but its especially evident in an expensive and rarer breed where people plan to "breed up", starting with inferior stock and improving on it. The only catch is that you have to have superior genetics to improve on an inferior flock. Most people don't.
Why did we sell our wool sheep and get hair sheep? We were raising hampshire/suffolk sheep previously. They gained well enough but the shearing was actually costing us more money than the wool brought in (not the best quality of wool) so it was eating into our profits. We had parasite issues, and foot rot issues. We attended an Ohio sheep day where they talked about hair sheep. We knew instantly that we had to learn more. 
For us, its the whole package. They breed out of season, have a decent feed to meat ratio, far less foot rot issues, far more parasite resistance, can be milked like a goat, and don't need to be sheared or have tails docked, leading to less instance of prolapse. They are as friendly as goats in my opinion. We love the meat too. We generally get between $1.50 and $3.00 a pound, live weight, for our lambs. 
We figured what we were spending previously on increased parasite control (and not just internal either), foot rot fixes, and shearing, contrasted with the extra lambs per year from the hair sheep, we're coming out about even, with far, far less work involved. We call that working smarter rather than working harder. 
But this only works if you have good quality genetics. You don't have to have registered stock, but you do have to breed selectively and be willing to cull hard to improve your stock. I see hair sheep like dorpers getting a bad reputation because of indiscriminate breeders who otherwise couldn't afford the animals. There are already some seriously bad Katahdins out there because of this same thing, although Kats have always been less expensive than dorpers. 
Around here, Hampshire/suffolk mix are bred for club lambs which causes breeders to focus on genetics and create winners. As soon as dorpers are allowed in more shows, more breeders will be focusing on genetics instead of cutting corners. 

Just my opinion.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

Very well said queensblessing. We do breed club lambs and have actually bought some years ago in Ohio from Acres club lambs. Perhaps when they get more of the hair sheep in the show arena teach us wool sheep people a little more about them.


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## Remuda1 (Oct 26, 2011)

thequeensblessing said:


> You know, I think its like any other animal. Take Boer goats for example. During the boer craze, everyone got into them and most people couldn't afford the cost of a good boer buck, and so folks got into "percentage" breeding, creating boer-looking percentage goats that sold for less than a full boer. Along with the price coming down, so did the quality. Now, you can find "percentage" boers who are very sub-par at every sale barn in America. Its the same with hair sheep. We're seeing a hair sheep craze where everyone and his brother are getting into hair sheep. A lot of folks around here are interested in the dorpers as they really do muscle up nicely. (we have some ewes who actually look like rams they are so "beefy".) But pure/full dorpers can be pricey...very pricey, so a lot of sheep farms have relied on "percentage" dorpers. Now, don't get me wrong, relying on percentage animals can be a good thing if you have a breeding plan to breed out negatives and emphasize the positives within the breed. Sadly, most small flock owners don't do this. Culling is painful, especially with a breed that tends to run on the expensive end as dorpers do. Now you can find many, many "percentage" dorpers at the sale barns, most of which don't emphasize the best qualities of the breed. We've seen many that are bred to wool sheep and don't seem to have the best characteristics of either breed.
> We paid a LOT of money for our rams, however, you have to remember that your ram is half of your flock. An inferior ram is going to mean half of your flock is inferior. When we first started out, we tried to cut corners, and our flock suffered for it. We invested in a good ram (an it was an investment, believe me!) and our flock reflects that.
> I know this holds true for all livestock, but its especially evident in an expensive and rarer breed where people plan to "breed up", starting with inferior stock and improving on it. The only catch is that you have to have superior genetics to improve on an inferior flock. Most people don't.
> Why did we sell our wool sheep and get hair sheep? We were raising hampshire/suffolk sheep previously. They gained well enough but the shearing was actually costing us more money than the wool brought in (not the best quality of wool) so it was eating into our profits. We had parasite issues, and foot rot issues. We attended an Ohio sheep day where they talked about hair sheep. We knew instantly that we had to learn more.
> ...



Yes, yes and yes. Thank you for saying it all so well. 

Right now there is serious concern in the American Dorper Sheep Breeders Society that breeders are starting to breed and cull in order to create show sheep. I'll be attending a two day course in April at Duncan, Oklahoma that will be taught by a South African Dorper judge. I am very much looking forward to this and am hoping that the show judges will be willing to adhere more to the South African standard for them.

Thank you again, queensblessing


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## tracerracer (Oct 6, 2012)

Remuda1 said:


> Yes, yes and yes. Thank you for saying it all so well.
> 
> Right now there is serious concern in the American Dorper Sheep Breeders Society that breeders are starting to breed and cull in order to create show sheep. I'll be attending a two day course in April at Duncan, Oklahoma that will be taught by a South African Dorper judge. I am very much looking forward to this and am hoping that the show judges will be willing to adhere more to the South African standard for them.
> 
> Thank you again, queensblessing


I would be interested in what you find/learn...... It saddens me that so much emphasis goes into 'show' and not function..... Like LGDs......... I don't give a whit about 'papers and certifications', I want solid conformation, healthy and able to produce/function in the capacity it's 'meant' for.............


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

tracerracer said:


> I would be interested in what you find/learn...... It saddens me that so much emphasis goes into 'show' and not function..... Like LGDs......... I don't give a whit about 'papers and certifications', I want solid conformation, healthy and able to produce/function in the capacity it's 'meant' for.............


 
In the club lambs it is not about papers and certifications. It is about the way they are put together. Now in the breeding stock papers are required but not in club lambs.


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## tracerracer (Oct 6, 2012)

grandma12703 said:


> In the club lambs it is not about papers and certifications. It is about the way they are put together. Now in the breeding stock papers are required but not in club lambs.


I didn't think I said anything about club lambs, I am aware of the emphasis on conformation ( at least locally) What I was referring to was the $400 untried Dorper ewe I saw a couple yrs ago..... She could be traced back to Africa and was certified up-down and sideways.............. I admit she was a fine lookin' ewe, but NOT $400 worth to me.............. Same goes when I was lookin' for a workin' dog (pup)........... I found pups that were outta parents that were champ this, champ that and papered 6 ways to Sunday.......... Don't give a rip......... Are they HEALTHY, can they WORK.............. and I absolutely REFUSE to spend $2,000+ on a pup that I have to sign a contract to never breed ( not that I ever had plans to, it's the 'principal' ) ....................


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

tracerracer said:


> I didn't think I said anything about club lambs, I am aware of the emphasis on conformation ( at least locally) What I was referring to was the $400 untried Dorper ewe I saw a couple yrs ago..... She could be traced back to Africa and was certified up-down and sideways.............. I admit she was a fine lookin' ewe, but NOT $400 worth to me.............. Same goes when I was lookin' for a workin' dog (pup)........... I found pups that were outta parents that were champ this, champ that and papered 6 ways to Sunday.......... Don't give a rip......... Are they HEALTHY, can they WORK.............. and I absolutely REFUSE to spend $2,000+ on a pup that I have to sign a contract to never breed ( not that I ever had plans to, it's the 'principal' ) ....................


 
I understand what you are saying and actually agree with you.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

Probably a change of subject but we bought a few older (6plus) suffolk/cross ewes out of a "sale barn" sale. We could tell by eartags that they had probably been show lambs. We took them home, gave them some vitamins, wormer, antibiotics, and stuck them with our ram. We got them very cheap and now they have lambed and WOW! We have some awesome babies on the ground right now. Long, meaty, tall, nice tight hided and beautiful fronts. Did I mention that out of 3 so far we have 4 ewe lambs. No ram lambs....it's amazing.


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## tracerracer (Oct 6, 2012)

grandma12703 said:


> Probably a change of subject but we bought a few older (6plus) suffolk/cross ewes out of a "sale barn" sale. We could tell by eartags that they had probably been show lambs. We took them home, gave them some vitamins, wormer, antibiotics, and stuck them with our ram. We got them very cheap and now they have lambed and WOW! We have some awesome babies on the ground right now. Long, meaty, tall, nice tight hided and beautiful fronts. Did I mention that out of 3 so far we have 4 ewe lambs. No ram lambs....it's amazing.


Excellent :clap::happy:


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## Hairsheep (Aug 13, 2012)

Well, I guess I will give you my opinion of why a person, such as myself would get into Hair Sheep:
1. I had never raised sheep before, and by what I read, they are the most forgiving of all sheep to raise, both from a disease and parasite aspect.
2. No need to shear, dock tails or crutch.
3. It is said by many, that Hair Sheep taste very unsheep like and more beef like.....
4. They are a good investment for a person wishing to rear a flock of his own, for personal eating and small sells.
5. Gain size on poor eating materials such as old weeds, bramble and small trees.
I had previously raised goats, and they were escape artists, plus would eat stuff that would kill them...these sheep, know where home is(within their fenced in area) and do not appear to eat stupid things that would kill them.
Those are my reasons, and they should appeal to many!

And btw, I am not in the least stirred up, and I hope my full blood Katahdin rams and my Doper X Katahdin ewes live up to everything I have read.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

Thanks for all the input. I seriously just wanted to know more about why and how "hair" sheep work. I still love my woollies and wouldn't switch but feel like I have a better understanding of why the hair type are on the rise.


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## spinandslide (Jun 6, 2008)

Why did I get into dorpers? ease of care..because I merely wanted a sheep to work my border collie on..the no shearing, hardiness of the dorper appealed to me..so I got some percentage ewes.and then got a ram because I figured, by gawd, them ewes could pay for themselves..so I went out and bought a fullblood ram.

I have since culled, sold, bought and bred up...and now have a small group of full/pure girls and my commercial girls..and of course the ram.

ADSBS is unique in that the association creates accountability among the judges, and has a set standard of what the dorper should be. We dont want them to be club lambs..they shouldnt be club lambs and shouldnt be judged like club lambs.

I think this issue, while in the backround for abit, has been pushed to the forefront as our breed becomes more predominent and popular. 

I to am looking forward to the seminar in Duncan Remuda!


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## spinandslide (Jun 6, 2008)

forgot to add...now the dorpers have become a family activity..something my son and I do together and allows us to spend time together doing something..I imagine we could do the same thing with woolies..but you cant, IMO, beat the disposition on dorpers..they are perfect for kiddos.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

grandma12703 said:


> I guess after being raised on a sheep ranch and now raising my own what is the big thing about hair sheep? IMO and it is only my opinion the wool also gives a second income as well as the meat and maybe milk if you choose to buy a breed of milk sheep.
> 
> I can't see that there would be much difference between having goats and hair sheep. I like goats and have several milk goats myself but the hair sheep just baffle me.



Sheep and goats are 2 different animals. We keep goats for the milk and as browsers to help control our pasture problems. The sheep are grazers and they are for meat production- lamb that is. In my area wool is a liability, not an asset. Even shearing myself I was losing money every year and the more I sheared the more I lost. Woolies seem to be far more fragile in worm terms, don;t pack on the meat like hair breeds, are easier for a coyote to get a hold on (hopefully our newly acquired Pyrs will put an end to that!) and are harder to judge condition on by eye sight IMO. It just makes sense for me to have them put the energy into meat rather than wool.


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

Looking4ewes said:


> I agree with the OP. In terms of production, the hair ewes do not keep up with the wool ewes in terms of pounds of lamb produced. The greater growth of the wool lambs more than makes up for the shearing cost. I run a production model based upon low cost, low input methods, mainly pasture-lambing and grass finishing. My wool ewes are no more trouble than the hair ewes, but they earn me more money. *The hair breeds have an advantage in hot, humid climates perhaps, but for the Midwest, they just don't measure up in terms of monetary return*.


Actually, the Midwest is a hot, humid climate. It certainly isn't Scotland. My daughter's boyfriend was from Oklahoma, and he reported hundred degree days for weeks straight. And there is humidity.

I've read of heat waves that have killed thousands of cattle in Iowa. I read another guy in Oklahoma that lost over 600 cattle a year or two ago.
Wool would not exist in summer except for a mutation. I had wool sheep years ago and got tired of watching them panting.

Most people don't appreciate the effect of heat stress. Ruminants produce heat in their rumen (like a steaming compost pile), and so have to get rid of the heat. Wool just makes it harder. There's a reason wool is used to keep us warm.

Studies in cattle show significantly lower body temperature in slick-haired breeds, and lighter colored breeds.


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## tazz (Jul 2, 2008)

The primary reason I raise hair sheep is taste! Some people like the taste of lamb from wool breeds but others of us do not. The first time I tried lamb from Katahdin and Dorper breeds I was sold! It's now a favorite at my house and I've converted many other non-lamb eaters since then too. 

And a big advantage of my sheep over goats is that I can run the sheep in the orchard without fear of bark damage on the trees. I've raised goats in the past and they will kill fruit trees quick as a wink. 

http://www.kunepigs.com/iron-goose-farm-forge/katahdin-sheep


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

littlebitfarm said:


> Hair sheep happily stay inside my fences. Goats wait at the road for the school bus. Easy choice here!
> 
> Kathie


I have both goats and hair sheep (Katahdins). Neither goats nor sheep try to muscle up and over the fence, they just hang around, chewing cud, doing caprine things. 

The reason I have hair sheep is because our numbers are small, and we just don't want to deal with shearing, but we love lamb chops!


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## Aussiemum (Oct 6, 2011)

littlebitfarm said:


> Hair sheep happily stay inside my fences. Goats wait at the road for the school bus. Easy choice here!
> 
> Kathie


Lol Kathie! Same here,our milking goat- "Mumma goat" will often have a wander down to meet the kiddos!! 
We have pure bred Damara Ram, black Dorper ewes & the meat-master sheep
We have a small numbers & no shearing is great for us, also they dont get fly strike and no crutching/docking is a bonus too.
The meat is really lovely.


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

Im looking at a check from " mid states wool growers cooperative association . " out of Ohio, made out to me for $ 112.00 .That is $ 58.00 more then I paid to have the 18 ewes sheared . $ 58.00 may not sound like a lot , but its a jug of wormer or 10 squares of alfalfa . 

I have said something very close to Queenies post ( #32) and was labeled a troll , a know it all and a braggart . Im glad to see this forum has grown a bit since then


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## Hairsheep (Aug 13, 2012)

J.T.M. said:


> Im looking at a check from " mid states wool growers cooperative association . " out of Ohio, made out to me for $ 112.00 .That is $ 58.00 more then I paid to have the 18 ewes sheared . $ 58.00 may not sound like a lot , but its a jug of wormer or 10 squares of alfalfa .
> 
> I have said something very close to Queenies post ( #32) and was labeled a troll , a know it all and a braggart . Im glad to see this forum has grown a bit since then


Where are you getting your alfalfa from?
Cost you $75.00 for 10 bails of it, HERE.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Looking4ewes said:


> I agree with the OP. In terms of production, the hair ewes do not keep up with the wool ewes in terms of pounds of lamb produced. The greater growth of the wool lambs more than makes up for the shearing cost. I run a production model based upon low cost, low input methods, mainly pasture-lambing and grass finishing. My wool ewes are no more trouble than the hair ewes, but they earn me more money. The hair breeds have an advantage in hot, humid climates perhaps, but for the Midwest, they just don't measure up in terms of monetary return.


My Katahdin ewe had twins last year, triplets this year. Last year's twins, a ewe and a ram, weighed 43 and 54 pounds at 63 days, respectively. This was feeding grass hay and a bit of alfalfa through lambing, then grass, alfalfa, and a couple cups of grain per day through weaning. This is a large Katahdin ewe, around 150 to 160 pounds, I'd guess. I don't know what wool ewes produce, but 97 pounds of babies in 63 days seems pretty good to me.

I don't like that sheepy taste in my meat. The first Katahdin I tasted was a 4-year-old wether. Delicious, mild, tender, sweet. The four-year-old ram was just the slightest little bit sheepy, so I cooked with some spices. Still tender and really quite good. My friend was raw-feeding her dogs, and picked up a couple Romney bummer lambs to raise with her Katahdins. She figured she'd butcher them, pull off a few good cuts for herself, and give the rest to the dogs. Once they were big enough, she did just that. When she tasted the meat, she decided to give it all to the dogs, and stick with the Katahdins for her own consumption. There's definitely a distinct (de-stinked) flavor difference between hair sheep and the woolies.


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

I found that the lambs from a Dorper ewe have a good growth spurt at first and then the growth rate tapers off. The equation of pounds of lamb produced per ewe, hair vs. wool, pencils out pretty simply. A lamb from a hair ewe that weighs only 125-140 lbs is not going to grow as big as a lamb from a wool ewe that weighs 165-200+ lbs. The genetics behind the lamb will determine it's growth. A wool ram on hair ewes will improve lamb production versus straight hair, and provide desirable heterosis. However, those crossed lambs still will not produce as well as wool lambs. 

I would argue that the taste of lamb has much to do with how it is fed and how it is butchered and how it is prepared. I, too, have eaten hair mutton with good results. The ram you describe would have made excellent sausage. I have eaten wool lamb as well and I cannot determine a flavor different between hair and wool. But it is off my own farm, being fed the same feed.

As I said in an earlier post, I have been very happy with my hair ewes for many different reasons, except for the fact that the lamb growth does not keep up with the lambs from wool ewes. Since I operate my sheep enterprise as a production model for profit, keeping hair ewes did not pencil out. Hair ewes may work quite well for other farm systems, especially those in hotter, humid climates. Hair ewes are also quite popular with those first getting into sheep, or those that keep a few ewes and want to avoid shearing. The key is to keep the breed of sheep that you like the most.


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## goodolboy (Mar 5, 2013)

Well here's some of my 2 cents, We've had goats, and wool sheep. We now only raise registered Katahdins.

Goats, never again.

My wife and I both have full time jobs. Raise 250 ewes and lambs every year. Up till last year we raised 12 wool sheep at the homestead for meat to put in the freezer. Had the flock at the house for 8 years. We spent more time with the 12 wool sheep than we did with the 250 Katahdins. Shearing, docking, hoof problems, flightyness, size, and mothering skills are just some of the reasons we finally sold them.

All of our sheep field lamb and are great mothers. Anyone with wool sheep will tell you that a wool sheep must lamb in a stall or jug. They walk off from the first or second lamb and forget they even had it. Not so with most hair sheep.

The wool sheep will always produce a larger lamb for the market, but the hair sheep(in general) can produce more lambs over a period of time, makeing the pounds produced in a year closer, if not even.

The wool in this area is hard to sell. Big producers of wool sheep around here will truck the wool 400 miles just to break even.

We tried going with commercial sheep for a few years, and that was too much work for us to. Cross breeding sheep you start to loose the traits that that breed was bread for. I always thought that the perfect commercial flock would be a 50% Katahdin, 50% Dorper ewe with a wool terminal sire. When the market falls off for the Katahdins, and it will, we will be heading that way. We could be there in two to three years.

As far as taste, I always say "Once you pull the hide off, you can't tell the differance".

The differance between lamb and mutton, a lamb is 12 months old or younger, mutton is anything over 12 months.

In closing I will say that their will always be a place for both. It just depends on what you personal are trying to do.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Looking4ewes said:


> I found that the lambs from a Dorper ewe have a good growth spurt at first and then the growth rate tapers off.
> 
> I would argue that the taste of lamb has much to do with how it is fed and how it is butchered and how it is prepared. I, too, have eaten hair mutton with good results. The ram you describe would have made excellent sausage. I have eaten wool lamb as well and I cannot determine a flavor different between hair and wool. But it is off my own farm, being fed the same feed.


I've attached a couple of pictures. The first is my 5-year-old Katahdin ewe with her two 60-day-old lambs, taken April 1. The second is the ram lamb (pinto) from the first picture standing next to two yearling ewes, one with a baby. The second picture was taken May 11. I don't know about Dorpers, but I'm not seeing a lot of slowing down on this guy. I think he looks pretty darn good for 15 weeks old.

I can see where, if you like the taste of wool sheep, the taste of a Katahdin wouldn't make much difference to you. My friend and I don't care for that particular flavor, though, which is why she fed her Romney lambs to the dogs, even though they were raised together with and exactly the same as her Katahdins. And she does her own butchering, so they were also butchered the same. Evidently, she found there was a significant difference in taste.

Incidentally, all of my Katahdins have lambed outside. Usually, I go outside in the morning to find babies, or come home from a day away to find babies. So far, no dead lambs and all babies have been very well cared for.

I'm a handspinner, and in spite of that I chose hair sheep partly because I can purchase a lovely, coated, properly shorn fleece of whatever color and texture I choose for way less than it would cost me to feed a sheep for a year. And I can choose a different type of fleece whenever I want, which is fun.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

Still love my suffolk, shropshire, crossbred and hampshire sheep. I do definately understand more about hair sheep than before and thank all of you. I wish everyone good luck with their sheep. There is nothing more relaxing than looking out over the pasture and watching sheep grazing no matter what kind they are.


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## goodolboy (Mar 5, 2013)

Amen.


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## Maria (Apr 24, 2003)

When we get to where we can't shear our Shetlands ourselves anymore, we'll probably switch to hair sheep.


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

Hairsheep said:


> Where are you getting your alfalfa from?
> Cost you $75.00 for 10 bails of it, HERE.


I only buy *second* cutting alfalfa and take it straight from the field .
This yr. I was only able to get 88 sq. @ $ 4.50 per. :hand: Im cutting it with some not so very good , but still very expansive MN. prairie grass .


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Even with a drought 2nd cut alfalfa from fertilized fields made no rain (well no kidding) was $4.00 off the field in thrower wagons


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

> Anyone with wool sheep will tell you that a wool sheep must lamb in a stall or jug.


Not so. I lamb entirely on pasture, a growing trend with many. 



> The wool sheep will always produce a larger lamb for the market, but the hair sheep(in general) can produce more lambs over a period of time, makeing the pounds produced in a year closer, if not even.


Are you saying that hair sheep are more prolific than wool, or that they are aseasonal? Both traits are present in wool breeds as well. Polypay, Dorset, Finn, Romanov to name a few.

Laura J, nice looking lambs. What are your weights at 5 months? Does your entire flock produce like that one ewe? I recently sold a Kat ewe that had pretty dappled marking such as that one.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Maybe it was my particular wool breeds and crosses, but mine didn't have the growth of my hair sheep. I do want to cross for a larger frame in a few years when I get the herd looking like I want.


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

Ross said:


> Even with a drought 2nd cut alfalfa from fertilized fields made no rain (well no kidding) was $4.00 off the field in thrower wagons


Those $ 4.00 sqs. are most likely going for over $ 10.00 right now ? 

My part of IA. has been droughty for 5 yrs. and is going into yr. three of a severe drought .We did get a few inches of snow a couple of days ago ... fingers crossed that thats a positive sign .

I have given a lot of thought on switching to hair sheep , but I have culled very hard to have the ewes I have today , that do things the way I prefer ( for better or worse ) and hate the thought of starting all over .


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

$6.00 last month when I was talking to the neighbour selling them. He has a feed and seed store. Bought them at $4 sells at $6.


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

Lucky ..... 
I just called ... $ 17.00 per. right now . <GASP>
Its so dry here , I had to pay to get rounds of grass hauled from northern MN. Not the best but a little of this, a little of that , makes it workable .The drought - among other things - is forcing a major reduction on my homestead . On the plus side ... a flock reduction will give me a chance to restore my pastures to pre drought conditions.


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## tonyb (Jul 4, 2011)

Does anyone know why Wiltshire Horn sheep are not more popular in the U.S.? Not a hair sheep, but apparently they shed their wool, so no shearing. Is it because of the horns? Are they slow growers, need high cost feed to finish, or something? Just curious.


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## BobDFL (Jul 7, 2006)

I have both, hair and wool (as well as goats), and what I've found is that the hair are easier to care for in that they are about as close to the, set it and forget it, as you can get in livestock. I've only rarely had to worm them, whereas the wool (Suffolk and Suffolk/Hampshire cross) have to be wormed more often (but not as often as the goats). 

As for the flavor, the hair are milder in flavor as compared to the wool, but are smaller (though the cut percentage seems higher) than the wool, for example same age wethers: Hair 120# Wool 144#. 

The reason I have both is that the wool lambs do better in the 4-H show ring for my daughter at the county fair as compared to the hair sheep, they also get a higher price per pound at the fair auction. The sheared wool will be for personal use, probably felting, and I'll be doing the shearing myself so it won't be an expense (except for the clippers which I've wanted anyway since even the hair sheep occasionally get bad dreadlocks when shedding).


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## Hairsheep (Aug 13, 2012)

tonyb said:


> Does anyone know why Wiltshire Horn sheep are not more popular in the U.S.? Not a hair sheep, but apparently they shed their wool, so no shearing. Is it because of the horns? Are they slow growers, need high cost feed to finish, or something? Just curious.


The Wiltshire Horn was used partly in the creation of the Katahdin Hair Sheep breed.
It is slower growing, but also much larger than breed than Dorpers or Katahdins.
It is my understanding, they finish on pasture just fine.
I wouldn't mind having a ram, myself to breed to, then breed back true Katahdin.


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## equinecpa (Mar 21, 2011)

> Quote:
> The wool sheep will always produce a larger lamb for the market, but the hair sheep(in general) can produce more lambs over a period of time, makeing the pounds produced in a year closer, if not even.
> 
> Are you saying that hair sheep are more prolific than wool, or that they are aseasonal? Both traits are present in wool breeds as well. Polypay, Dorset, Finn, Romanov to name a few.


I'm curious if the woolies and hair raisers (lol never thought of myself as hairraising before!) can comment on this statement? I know some Katahdin people keep stats on annual weaned wt per ewe, do the woolies keep the same kind of stats? It would be interesting to see...


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I can't point you to a collected reference but of course wool sheep breeders and the various sheep organizations keep records. I'm not sure where the idea that "woolies" only raise one big lamb comes from. Three off the top of my head Rideau Arcott, Romanov, and Finn sheep all have litters of lambs. Most breeds have been selectively bred for centuries to have twins and triplets, most are further refined to have triplets and quads. A few (again off the top of my head) are more prone to singles, like North Country Cheviots, Suffolks and Lincolns; however, any PB breeder will have better more prolific examples than a commercial flock of the same. Twins is always the expectation with well managed half decent genetics.


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