# Pygmy/Dairy Cross



## JustinRobinsREO (Jan 2, 2013)

I am new to the dairy side of goats, but I have really enjoyed my lamancha and aplines and their milk.

However it seems that no matter how you stagger them you still sometimes run into no milk for a month or two (Sometimes).

I realize you can freeze it, but with all the hunting I do and meat I butcher it makes it difficult to find the freezer room. 

Now I know that pygmy goats can breed all year long, but I imagine they produce very little milk and their teat size would make the task of milking even harder, but what if you were to cross them with a good solid milking dairy goat like an alpine. 

Could the offspring allow for higher milk production and the ability to breed all year long?


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Nubians are a standard-sized dairy breed that has a nearly year-round cycle.

If you cross a pygmy with a Nubian, you get a Kinder, a solid, dual purpose breed.

Nigerian Dwarfs, however, also breed year-round, and they are basically a dairy type of pygmy (same African roots, just decades of selection for milking.).

If you cross an ND with any standard-sized goat, you get an F1 Mini-whatever the standard was. (Mini-Alpine, Mini-Nubian, Mini-Mancha, etc.)

If what you wanted was a dairy doe, of a smaller size, that bred year-round, I'd suggest getting a Mini.


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## Donna1982 (Jun 14, 2011)

Could you also make them cycle with cidrs and pg600? I wish I had the problem with not enough freezee space lol. I could really go for some deer meat right about now.


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## JustinRobinsREO (Jan 2, 2013)

Great information! Thank you! I didn't realize nubians cycled year round. My girls are 3/4 alpine and 1/4 nubian. 

Donna1982- Doesn't take much more than 1 elk to feel the freezer here!


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## JustinRobinsREO (Jan 2, 2013)

Now I heard nigerian dwarfs do not produce that much milk. Is that true?


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Thumbs up for Kinders -or atleast our line. Our doe was a prolific milker, 2+ years first freshner, easy milker, easy keeper, nice size and nice teats - 4 fingers easy.. She gave 2.5 lbs per milking at peak - which doesn't compare with the heavier milkers, but the milk was atleas 6% (I could easily make butter with it) and was more than ample for the two of us. We haven't butchered one yet, but another poster recently had and was surprised at the amount of meat. 

If your after heavy milk production, or heavy meat, then a Kinder isn't the answer - and as with any, you'd need to start with good dairy lines, however I do believe that they come as close as possible to earning the moniker, "dual purpose", and yes, they cycle throughout the year so allows more flexible breeding schedule.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

JustinRobinsREO said:


> Now I heard nigerian dwarfs do not produce that much milk. Is that true?


~laughs~ It depends upon what you mean by "that much". It also depends if the ND is from milking lines or pet lines.

A good ND from solid milking lines tends to produce between a quart and a half a gallon per day, with exceptional one producing 3/4 of a gallon a day at peak.

My run-of-the-mill F1 Mini-Nubian produced a little over a gallon per day at peak.

My Alpines run from a gallon to a gallon and a half at peak. One of them pushes 2 gallons at peak hard enough for it to push back.

But, there are trade-offs. My Mini-Nubians seem to be abe to produce on sunshine and air. The NDs I have had in the past were pretty effecient feed converters as well.

But, if you just want to be able to stagger breedings with what you have, use a CIDR. They are only $6 each, and they will cause any doe of any breed to come into ovulating, standing heat whenever you want.


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## dozedotz (Dec 12, 2012)

Just a heads up - the KGBA will not allow the title "Kinder" to be applied to any goat that is not registered with the KGBA. You cannot advertize a Nubian/Pygmy mix or sell as a Kinder unless it is registered with them. To be registered with KGBA your Nubian doe and Pygmy buck must also be registered stock through ADGA and NPGA. If you have a website, you cannot refer to your mixed breed animals as Kinders unless they are registered with the KGBA. You will hear from their lawyers if you decide to do this! Their reasoning is that people are passing off as Kinder goats animals that do not meet the Kinder standard. They are very serious about this and have the legal standing to act...and they will. 
On a funner note (!) Kinders are excellent little goats. We butchered a wether a couple of weeks ago that weighed in at about 90 pounds (born end of May). The year before we butchered a Nubian wether that was about 120 pounds at roughly the same age. The meat that we got off the Kinder was easily 1/3 more than the Nubian. For their size Kinders produce a heck of a lot of meat. KGBA says that they have records proving that 
percentage wise the Kinder beats Boer, Kiko and other "meat" goats. Kinders are also easier to hang and butcher because of their size. The Kinder milk production easily rivals other minis (obviously there are exceptions with certain animals) and the butterfat percentage will beat Nubians, mini Nubians and ND's. They have the richest milk by far! In my opinion they are not as cute as the mini Nubians or the ND's. That is a personal preference, of course. They are stocky, airplane to floppy eared, extremely acrobatic, great foragers. It all depends on what you want to look at as well as what you need.


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## JustinRobinsREO (Jan 2, 2013)

Interesting...Well I bred one of my alpine does to a pygmy buck and the other alpine to a my boer buck. So I will be interested in seeing the turn out. I have a mini lamancha I just picked up. Two years old and only 25 pounds I bet. What would I be safe breeding her to?


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## dozedotz (Dec 12, 2012)

Sorry, I forgot to add that Kinders breed all year round and you can stagger the breedings so that you have milk year round. I would suggest that you contact the KGBA or better yet colemangirly who is on this site to get more information if you think you have room in your freezer for the meat you will get from a Kinder. You will LOVE the milk! Guaranteed!


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## JustinRobinsREO (Jan 2, 2013)

Thanks Dozedots!


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## Sparkie (Aug 16, 2012)

Just be sure not to breed a large buck to a pygmy doe - pygmies have a hard enough time birthing pygmy babies sometimes. We got rid of our pygmies after losing a couple of does because of that (bred to pygmy buck.) They are too small for even me, with my tiny hands, to get in to help reposition or pull kids. It was just too sad, I didn't want even the possibility of dealing with that again.


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## pygmybabies (Apr 24, 2010)

WE bred our pygmy buck to our nubian and the doe we call Faith was small and is an absolute wonderful milker, one of the best for a first year. We kept her baby who is gorgoeus markings and then this year we bred them both to our Nigerian/pygmy buck with blue eyes...excited to see what pops out, and excited to have milk again!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

That Minimancha at 25 pounds is a runt. I wouldn't breed her at all.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Actually weigh that Minimancha. Their weight can be deceiving. Honestly, she's SEVERELY stunted at that weight. I don't own minis but I hazard a guess that they should be a hundred pounds or so at 2 years old. Either she was mistreated, had a heavy cocci/worm infestation while growing, or SOMETHING - but that is way, way, way too tiny to ever consider breeding.


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## colemangirly (Sep 30, 2010)

I raise Kinders and can give you any info that you might want and if I don't know, I can steer you in the right direction. I haven't been online much due to my son and husband having surgery, but my web site is
www.tadpoleacres.webs.com


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