# Why do people risk their jobs?



## wannabfarmer (Jun 30, 2015)

I'm trying to understand why people risk their jobs for stupid reasons. the company I work for employs almost 12 thousand employees and I see a lot of them doing stupid things that could get them fired. whether it be for a joke or pride they just do stupid ****. we aren't allowed to have cell phones on us but they do. they take off days just because they don't feel like working. list goes on and some of the stuff they do isn't just they get a warning. they could be a model employee and having your phone on you is an immediate termination. i'm just trying to understand why people in the 18 to 30 range are willing to risk a 50k-80k a year job with excellent benefits that are very cheap over some dumb childish ****? anyone else notice this at their work or is it just me?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

wannabfarmer said:


> I'm trying to understand *why*


People as a whole are pretty stupid and self centered.

Many have never had to face the consequences of their own actions, and think the rules don't apply to them because they are "better", or that they are too smart to get caught.

Most of them probably figure they can easily get another job if they lose the one they have.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

I remember a movie I saw once. Made in the 40s about women working in factories. One was complaining about having to wear a head scarf to contain her hair. She said she had nice hair and shook it, whereupon the machinery grabbed it. Machine was stopped but her hair had to be cut to get her free.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

They see someone else get away with it so they think they can too. Once they do get away with it they become more bold, foolishly thinking they will never get caught. When they do, they are going to whine that everyone else is doing it!


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

I wonder if their thought processes haven't matured enough to consider any consequences.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Because Mommy let them break rules in school and defended them against the school. They been taught rules don't apply to them


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I have seen a shift in attitude towards a job. When I started the work force, I was expected to be loyal to my employer and my employer was, within reason, looking out for me. Sort of a unspoken respect. You made sacrifices for your employer. If you were needed to work overtime, you did. If they needed you to work a different shift, you did. You understood that if you weren't productive, the company wasn't profitable and everyone loses.

But young adults recognize that their employer doesn't care. They expect to change jobs every few years. There is no pension. There is no reward for hard work. If you don't find the job fulfilling, you find another one. If you don't like your hours, you ask for different hours. If you don't get your way, you leave.

Works great. Employers pay the least amount they can and expect a big turnover of staff. These young employees are going to do the bare minimum and are prepared to start looking for a new job at the drop of a hat.

The ones that take a beating are the older employees that are devoted and expect some sort of reward for that devotion.

It really isn't risking your job if it isn't satisfying and an equal job is right around the corner. If your employer won't put up with your selfish attitude, let them struggle to find a better replacement.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Yup Employers look out for their employees who work hard and put forth to their employer.

Just such a case has bee reported in the news recently. GM is layiing off thousands of workers and moving production to Mexico and other countrys.
the CEO Marry Bara Says it is for the good of the company and keeping it conpetive. Easy for her to say as she collects her 22 million a year salary and benifits.

So much for busting you butt for the employer AH.

 Al


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wannabfarmer said:


> I'm trying to understand why people risk their jobs for stupid reasons. the company I work for employs almost 12 thousand employees and I see a lot of them doing stupid things that could get them fired. whether it be for a joke or pride they just do stupid poop. we aren't allowed to have cell phones on us but they do. they take off days just because they don't feel like working. list goes on and some of the stuff they do isn't just they get a warning. they could be a model employee and having your phone on you is an immediate termination. i'm just trying to understand why people in the 18 to 30 range are willing to risk a 50k-80k a year job with excellent benefits that are very cheap over some dumb childish poop? anyone else notice this at their work or is it just me?


You were asking the wrong question the question that they asked them selves is why would anybody care about losing a lousy job?


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## ed/La (Feb 26, 2009)

What kind of job is this? 50 to 80k with benefits with that many employees. Auto industry?


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

Its selfishness. If you could be a fly on the wall you would probably find that it is just a symptom of a trend throughout that persons life.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

Somehow, in 35 years of working, I have never been fired or even have to be "spoken to" about any incident, or bad behavior. I tell new people who are starting out in our rubber molding factory to do the following;

1. show up.......on time
2. Leave your electronics in your car
3. keep your mouth shut
4. keep your nose in your own business
5. do your job

I can't believe the number of people we have trained over the 25 years I have been there.


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

It comes down to lack of gratitude. Probably not taught/fostered at home. 

If a person is in a job that they don't feel is adequate in pay or other requirements they should look for a better job. But if there really isn't a better opportunity available thay should be professional and do the best in the job that they have... Food and shelter are always a nice to possess and awful to lose.


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

whiterock said:


> I remember a movie I saw once. Made in the 40s about women working in factories. One was complaining about having to wear a head scarf to contain her hair. She said she had nice hair and shook it, whereupon the machinery grabbed it. Machine was stopped but her hair had to be cut to get her free.


I worked in a factory for awhile. The rule was "don't come to work without steel toes". I never did.

A woman wore regular shoes and had a 1300 lb.+ pallet come down across her toes. No more toes...
A lot of rules are in force to protect the worker and the company.


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## Falfrenzy (Aug 20, 2018)




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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

haypoint said:


> I have seen a shift in attitude towards a job. When I started the work force, I was expected to be loyal to my employer and my employer was, within reason, looking out for me. Sort of a unspoken respect. You made sacrifices for your employer. If you were needed to work overtime, you did. If they needed you to work a different shift, you did. You understood that if you weren't productive, the company wasn't profitable and everyone loses.
> 
> But young adults recognize that their employer doesn't care. They expect to change jobs every few years. There is no pension. There is no reward for hard work. If you don't find the job fulfilling, you find another one. If you don't like your hours, you ask for different hours. If you don't get your way, you leave.
> 
> ...


Very well said. There are a few employers who feel a sense of responsibility toward their employees, but they are a minority. You are dead center that the employee of today isn't going to give much loyalty in exchange for poor to mediocre pay and the threat of having that job exported to Mexico, India, China, or Indonesia without much warning and even less concern.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Miss Kay said:


> When they do, they are going to whine that everyone else is doing it!


That sounds familiar.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

It's pretty much all been covered,people are stupid and some think rules don't apply to them


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wannabfarmer said:


> I'm trying to understand why people risk their jobs for stupid reasons. the company I work for employs almost 12 thousand employees and I see a lot of them doing stupid things that could get them fired. whether it be for a joke or pride they just do stupid poop. we aren't allowed to have cell phones on us but they do. they take off days just because they don't feel like working. list goes on and some of the stuff they do isn't just they get a warning. they could be a model employee and having your phone on you is an immediate termination. i'm just trying to understand why people in the 18 to 30 range are willing to risk a 50k-80k a year job with excellent benefits that are very cheap over some dumb childish poop? anyone else notice this at their work or is it just me?


That's why I liked being my own boss. I could work any hours I wanted,(pick any 20 I wanted) but didn't have anyone breathing down my neck. To answer your question my second wife said it best.... "People are stupider than anyone".


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Where I worked those were the ones who got promoted.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

No cell phones? That would be unusual. Many companies today use cell phones for internal communications. Some used two-way radios, then switched to phones for more privacy . And, seriously, how are you going to call 911 when there's a fire, or when a shooter comes through the door? 

geo


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

I worked for one of the top companies on Forbes for 37 years. I was always amazed at the white collar, college educated, not young employees that routinely got let go from their job for stealing - toilet paper from the bathrooms, coffee packets from the community kitchen areas, office supplies out of the company storage at the start of every school year (school supplies for free). How dumb can you be. Never did hear of any of the contracted cleaning people stealing - always was the big pay check, white collar folk. Dumb, dumb, dumb.


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

Things are no different here especially in minimum retail or service jobs. I just had a conversation with a frustrated employer who can't find reliable help in a small local garden center/ convenience store. She hires under thirty people. They call in sick several times a month, have to be given detailed instructions and haven't got a clue how to treat customers and they they are addicted to their phones. I don't believe all young workers are like this but I have heard this complaint a lot the past few years. If my opinion is asked I tell them to give older applicants a chance. Maybe those 40 -50 + yrs who really need work of any kind to support a family. Anyone who has struggled to care for a family appreciates an opportunity . Most retail jobs require high school diploma as a minimum requirement. Some retail and service industry employees over fifty don't have high school but are still reliable workers. Anyone really needing work will not risk losing their job doing silly things or breaking the rules. The ones who do are a product of the generation of self entitlement who seem to reason they can do whatever they want without any consequences. The only cure is the road of hard knocks where you lose your job for breaking rules or being lazy. Being hungry and no rent money for a while should cure the problem. That works if the parents who raised these self-entitled kids stop bailing them out and let them grow up!


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Only job I hated was milking a cow at 4:00AM. I had no choice forced slave labor LOL.
call in sick, boy you had better be running a temp and pukeing your guts up other wise you got a trip to the wood shed.

Didn't enjoy picking up potatoes for 25 cents a box either so just left and let them have the few boxes I had filled.

Enjoyed driving the semi till I got east of the Mississippi river. My option is the rudest drivers in America live east of the river. The rudest people at loading docks and unloading docks are east of the Mississippi too. The very rudest were in the* city of Brotherly love,* sure do not know how they ever got that distinction, must have been way back in the 1700's.

Then building custom coaches was a fun good job. Got to learn a whole bunch about welding from a torch to a spot welder.
But I was in my glory when they added in the fixing lemons for the big 3 and a few of the rice burners. Once they started up that part of the business it took 4 months to get a perment spot on the crew. Miss a day of work with out a doctors excuse and you were out the door. But get the 4 months in and some one in your family (wife & kids) got sick you got time off and many a time you found a bigger pay check than you expected. When one lady was missing a lot of work for chemo treatments and radiation for cancer the company bought a bunch of gift cards to restaurants so she would not have to cook when she felt like crap. Of course we who worked with her also added in meals, all she had to do was micro wave to make them eatable.
The bosses also set it up so she could do work at home on a lap top in bed if she felt like it.

I was given extra days when I was sent off to a dealer to work on a peice of crap car or truck where I had to fly along with spending money.
Best job I ever had and the best people to work for. You were part of a family once you got thru the 4 months.


 Al


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

mzgarden said:


> I worked for one of the top companies on Forbes for 37 years. I was always amazed at the white collar, college educated, not young employees that routinely got let go from their job for stealing - toilet paper from the bathrooms, coffee packets from the community kitchen areas, office supplies out of the company storage at the start of every school year (school supplies for free). How dumb can you be. Never did hear of any of the contracted cleaning people stealing - always was the big pay check, white collar folk. Dumb, dumb, dumb.


Batteries at Christmas is the big on here. The company put in vending machines that work with you ID card to try and put an end to it.

WWW


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

I used to "steal" a box of paper when they came in to the copy room area. If I didn't I wouldn't be able to make copies for my classes for tests. Small school, K thru 12 used same Mimeograph machine. Elementary used up all the paper for coloring sheets. I stole a box or two of paper and hid it in my room after the first 6 weeks of school taught me that lesson.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

whiterock said:


> Because Mommy let them break rules in school and defended them against the school. They been taught rules don't apply to them


This is really the long and short of it. People are a product of how they were raised.
Some might get fired for reasons mentioned, be regretful and straighten themselves out. Some never will.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

During the housing crisis, my contracting company did numerous rehabs on single family bank foreclosures. I cannot recall the number of homes lost because of embezzlement crimes by one of the owners.
Several bank employees caught by the Feds funneling money from accounts.
Accountants for fellow contractors, a manufacturing plant, a golf course, a body shop, a heating and cooling business, an auto dealership, a local chapter of the girl scouts, a local semi pro baseball team, and on and on. Some of the thefts were 10-2ok, others approached a million or more dollars.
The OP asked why do people risk their jobs?
Well... how do the ones that steal such large amounts of cash think they will get away with it?
These people were convicted and sent to prison. Restitution involved liquidating every asset, meaning they lost their homes and their spouses and children were forced to relocate. They lived the embarrassment in the news and media.
The guilty party usually claimed they used the money for college, medical bills, their mortgage etc, though there would also be vacations, cars, shopping sprees, big boy toys, and other extravagances.
Don't overthink the issue; it isn't a complex one.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

CIW said:


> Its selfishness. If you could be a fly on the wall you would probably find that it is just a symptom of a trend throughout that persons life.


Bingo. The new generation has hundreds of photos they have taken of themselves on their phone. They have never had to apologize to a friend in order to maintain a friendship. They simply "unfriend" them and focus on the 300 other "friends".
They see no reason to be in a job that isn't satisfying. Their social life brings more happiness than their job, so when the job gets in the way, they blow off the job.

Employers are not willing to attract quality employees. They just need the bare minimum that they can pay the bare minimum. A friend grew up on a farm, did a lot of carpentry work and was fairly mechanical. At 60 years old, she applied for a job at Tractor Supply Company. They were all set to hire her, but she said she couldn't start for two weeks, since she was in the middle of lambing. They never called her. They needed a body.60 years of experience did not matter.

When I hired in at the prison, there was a pension, after 10 years. Wasn't much and you had to be 60 to get it, but it was something. Each month they added 8 hours of paid sick leave. But when you retire, you get half of that sick leave as cash. But, in cutting costs, the pension has been gone for 30 years and the pay for sick leave is gone. The starting pay is lower, but the requirements higher. Many new employees use their paid sick leave as fast as they earn it. The increase in sick leave use causes staff shortages, so employees work overtime to fill those vacancies. They earn 150% of their base pay, plus the employee that is "sick" gets paid, too. There is no incentive to "save" their sick leave. Replacing a pension with a 401K retirement plan, employees are not tied to their job like they would with a pension. Staff quality suffers.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

They don’t care. 
It’s that simple. 
Why do you ?

Why would you even wonder why someone doesn’t care about losing a crud job?
When they finally get a Good job they will come in early,Stay late wish for more and enjoy every minute of it.
In fact that’s probably the definition of a good job.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

To me a job was a "survival mode" means of getting by until I could find a way to earn a decent living.


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## itsb (Jan 13, 2013)

just simply a lack of responsibility


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

I worked in Human Resources for many, many years in Corporate America. I've seen the change and shift in the workforce. I grew up knowing that if I was supposed to start working at 9:00 am, I usually arrived by 8:45 so I would be ready to get started. Today employees don't understand they are LATE when they don't even arrive by 9:15. They want flexible work hours, lots of time off, and not have to really work to get a paycheck. I don't blame anyone for leaving a lousy job once they find another. I've fired many and sat in on many other firings. 9 times out of 10, the employee has been given chance after chance to abide by the rules but choose not too and then want to blame the employer. I've also fired employees who spent their time figuring out ways to rip off the company when they would have been more successful channeling that energy into working hard.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

There are a lot of stupid people out there, and they practice it every day.
Best way to cope is to stay out of their damage zone, and let them weed themselves out.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The jobs of my youth were paid thru a mechanical time clock in increments of 6 minutes.
If you were scheduled 8-4:30 you had until 8:06 to punch in and you could leave at 4:24.
The ones that took advantage of that on a regular basis usually didn't pan out, about like today.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

alleyyooper said:


> Easy for her to say as she collects her 22 million a year salary and benifits.


Perspective. If she were to work for free, that 22 million is about 120 bucks per employee. What's that going to do?
If she thought only of today and kept factories open that produced cars at prices that no one would pay, running GM into insolvency, all 180,000 employees would be out of a job, the retirees checks in jeopardy and the stockholders' lose their money.

But to stay competitive, GM is investing $36 million in plant upgrades in Lansing, MI


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Fishindude said:


> This is really the long and short of it. People are a product of how they were raised.
> Some might get fired for reasons mentioned, be regretful and straighten themselves out. Some never will.


Mommies typically let the boys get away with more than the girls. And that path is followed right into adulthood. And a lot of fathers step back from teaching their sons responsibility/honesty and brag about what they could pilfer from their jobs. Not smart in the short run or the long run...


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## wannabfarmer (Jun 30, 2015)

ok I read all of the comments and while I agree with them let me be fair and give more background and try to answer as many of the questions I can without quoting anyone lol. Its a battery manufacturer(2nd largest in the world) we ship batteries internationally and locally. there is a 95 percent chance that the battery in everyone's car has a battery we made. We cant have cell phones as they just don't want them on the production floor. I work in a shipping warehouse but the same rules apply to us as the main facility to be fair. also in the plants you are exposed to lead and it will collect in and on your phone and you can expose others to the lead when you go home. yes there are very few jobs that pay less than 40k a year at my company, I said 50k because we run a lot of mandatory overtime and a lot of us volunteer for more. a fork lift operator at our other warehouse worked every hour possible for a year straight and cleared 108k with no college education just a huge work ethic. our benefits which are amazing cost us 14 dollars a week and offer vision and dental included in that price. we have a yearly bonus and they offer many programs. they also every year rent the local amusement park yes the whole park for a day and cater it for all of the employees. the majority of the employees don't have a degree. they have very little going for them in life as they live in a very high crime area. we have a lot of employees that are 20 plus years with the company. the ones i'm talking about are the ones that have been here less than 10 years. I've only been here 2 years. I have worked for myself before and I got burned out, I like going to work and going home and leaving work at work. while I agree some could go find a different job most can't. The average pay for most of the production jobs averages 19 to 25 an hour depending on what you do and if you are in production you get a line bonus. 
This company is huge and yes you are a number and they can replace you in minutes. they hire 50 people a week and constantly have people quit or get fired. number one reason for being fired is missing too many days. if you don't like your job after a year you can apply for a different job in the company. if you want to relocate you can as they are growing and opening new things across the country. this isn't just a job. it really is a career and can seriously provide a big income if you are willing to work. I'm sorry this is lengthy but I felt some of the responses thought this was like a fast food job.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

wannabfarmer said:


> ok I read all of the comments and while I agree with them let me be fair and give more background and try to answer as many of the questions I can without quoting anyone lol. Its a battery manufacturer(2nd largest in the world) we ship batteries internationally and locally. there is a 95 percent chance that the battery in everyone's car has a battery we made. We cant have cell phones as they just don't want them on the production floor. I work in a shipping warehouse but the same rules apply to us as the main facility to be fair. also in the plants you are exposed to lead and it will collect in and on your phone and you can expose others to the lead when you go home. yes there are very few jobs that pay less than 40k a year at my company, I said 50k because we run a lot of mandatory overtime and a lot of us volunteer for more. a fork lift operator at our other warehouse worked every hour possible for a year straight and cleared 108k with no college education just a huge work ethic. our benefits which are amazing cost us 14 dollars a week and offer vision and dental included in that price. we have a yearly bonus and they offer many programs. they also every year rent the local amusement park yes the whole park for a day and cater it for all of the employees. the majority of the employees don't have a degree. they have very little going for them in life as they live in a very high crime area. we have a lot of employees that are 20 plus years with the company. the ones i'm talking about are the ones that have been here less than 10 years. I've only been here 2 years. I have worked for myself before and I got burned out, I like going to work and going home and leaving work at work. while I agree some could go find a different job most can't. The average pay for most of the production jobs averages 19 to 25 an hour depending on what you do and if you are in production you get a line bonus.
> This company is huge and yes you are a number and they can replace you in minutes. they hire 50 people a week and constantly have people quit or get fired. number one reason for being fired is missing too many days. if you don't like your job after a year you can apply for a different job in the company. if you want to relocate you can as they are growing and opening new things across the country. this isn't just a job. it really is a career and can seriously provide a big income if you are willing to work. I'm sorry this is lengthy but I felt some of the responses thought this was like a fast food job.


I know 2
young men who worked with mine for 25 years. They are both dead now from lead exposure. They worked at a local lead mine. Yes i know about the protection they give however the rate of death from working with lead and some other products rate of death is about 20 times higher then other job. Had a cousin that worked in one battery factory for 10 years. I told him he was asking for trouble. He said Oh they give up special clothing and such to protect us. Well he is dead now after working with lead for 10 years. Had one cousin that was a painter. Worked with lead paint years ago and later died for lead exposure from the paint. I think i would be wanting another job. No wonder the work turnover is high with those job. Some of the companies give more pay for certain job that is more dangers in that field.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

geo in mi said:


> No cell phones? That would be unusual. Many companies today use cell phones for internal communications. Some used two-way radios, then switched to phones for more privacy . And, seriously, how are you going to call 911 when there's a fire, or when a shooter comes through the door?
> 
> geo


I worked in a place that printed and mailed out bank statements. Having a cell phone in the production area would get you fired because that was a security risk. Where hubby works people have been fired for being in a sterile manufacturing environment and pulling a cell phone out of their pocket. In both places you have to have an employee badge to get into the facility. If there was a fire or an armed invader you are just screwed. I guess the fire extinguishers would help in either situation.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

wannabfarmer said:


> i'm just trying to understand why people in the 18 to 30 range are willing to risk a 50k-80k a year job with excellent benefits that are very cheap over some dumb childish poop?


Ummmm . . . . . because the majority of MILLENNIALS don't have a clue in the real world.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Do what makes you happy, life`s short and then you die, in most cases never to be remembered by history and likely never remembered in a couple generations by family.


There is no correct way that secures you a place in the ranks...….many older employees are being let go with a thank you, have a nice life.


The millennial employee has been matched by the millennial employer...…


The same way the government has lost track of why they are here, so have employers. But people are wising up every day to the system, which by the way, we did not create...…….we allowed it to happen.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

It was back in 1994 when I complained to my boss about him sending people to me to train to do the same job that I was doing. It seemed that the rumor that had made the rounds was that they were coming in at $2 an hour more than I and those that were currently filling this position were getting. I asked about that and he suggested talking to HR, he said maybe they can make it more fair. The HR person said that there was a new paradigm, don't like the situation in your current position, apply for a position that pays more.

This totally shot down my idea about becoming absolutely the best at the position that I was performing to give the company the best return on the money that they were paying me and allowed me to understand that I needed to move to another position where someone who was making less than me could train me.

Moved to another company filling the same position and my career took off, Raise, bonus, raise, promotion, bonus, raise... etc...


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Michael W. Smith said:


> Ummmm . . . . . because the majority of MILLENNIALS don't have a clue in the real world.


 Sounds like they are doing the right thing and you are being left behind in your old fashioned ways.
Would you care to explain why you think they should care about a rotten job ?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> Sounds like they are doing the right thing and you are being left behind in your old fashioned ways.
> Would you care to explain why you think they should care about a rotten job ?


Even a rotten job keeps a little distance between a belly button and a backbone. Of course the average millineal has no concept of that condition due to having parents with good jobs their whole life.


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## wannabfarmer (Jun 30, 2015)

again....its not a rotten job and no one breaks their back even if they do a good job. that's what i'm confused about. all they have to do is show up and work at a semi steady speed and they can't do it. they will take a half hour job and stretch it out to almost 8 hours then complain when they get written up. or the complain they are tired after their half hour of work and go home or take the next day off because the half hour they worked the day before was too much. i'm technically a millennial I believe, born in 84. I would NEVER work like that even if I hated the job. I might go slower but I would still do a good job. I've never been fired and I've never quit a job without notice, even when I worked fast food when I was younger. I think its boiling down to they are used to being handed things and don't honestly know what it is to work for what they want or have. i'm glad I don't have their work ethic. its just a shame that they can't see what they are making their future out to be.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Good humor should always have a thread of truth.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1860113934013190


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

I think my Millennial adult children care less about their jobs than I or their father did because they were smarter than us and didn't start families right away. They lose a job, who cares, they have savings (because they don't have kids) and will be fine until they find another one. They are only responsible for themselves, which is freeing in that you don't have to worry about putting much food on the table or much in the way of shelter over your own head.

It's a different life than my husband and I had, and MUCH less pressure.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Th


wannabfarmer said:


> I'm trying to understand why people risk their jobs for stupid reasons. the company I work for employs almost 12 thousand employees and I see a lot of them doing stupid things that could get them fired. whether it be for a joke or pride they just do stupid poop. we aren't allowed to have cell phones on us but they do. they take off days just because they don't feel like working. list goes on and some of the stuff they do isn't just they get a warning. they could be a model employee and having your phone on you is an immediate termination. i'm just trying to understand why people in the 18 to 30 range are willing to risk a 50k-80k a year job with excellent benefits that are very cheap over some dumb childish poop? anyone else notice this at their work or is it just me?


That has been going on forever and not just young people. 

In 1998, we had an employee steal a laptop and try to sell it. He was 54 years old.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

nehimama said:


> I wonder if their thought processes haven't matured enough to consider any consequences.


Again it is not just young people. We had a 50 + woman who had continual absences, and eventually got fired.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

alleyyooper said:


> Yup Employers look out for their employees who work hard and put forth to their employer.
> 
> Just such a case has bee reported in the news recently. GM is layiing off thousands of workers and moving production to Mexico and other countrys.
> the CEO Marry Bara Says it is for the good of the company and keeping it conpetive. Easy for her to say as she collects her 22 million a year salary and benifits.
> ...



THey do not. They value until layoff time comes up. And then you are just a position number. It does not matter if you are the greatest worker in the world.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

light rain said:


> I worked in a factory for awhile. The rule was "don't come to work without steel toes". I never did.
> 
> A woman wore regular shoes and had a 1300 lb.+ pallet come down across her toes. No more toes...
> A lot of rules are in force to protect the worker and the company.



Actually in that case, the company should be liable. She should not have been allowed to work without safety equipment.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Teej said:


> Where I worked those were the ones who got promoted.


Oh you're a government worker too.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Hilarious video !


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wannabfarmer said:


> again....its not a rotten job and no one breaks their back even if they do a good job. that's what i'm confused about. all they have to do is show up and work at a semi steady speed and they can't do it. they will take a half hour job and stretch it out to almost 8 hours then complain when they get written up. or the complain they are tired after their half hour of work and go home or take the next day off because the half hour they worked the day before was too much. i'm technically a millennial I believe, born in 84. I would NEVER work like that even if I hated the job. I might go slower but I would still do a good job. I've never been fired and I've never quit a job without notice, even when I worked fast food when I was younger. I think its boiling down to they are used to being handed things and don't honestly know what it is to work for what they want or have. i'm glad I don't have their work ethic. its just a shame that they can't see what they are making their future out to be.


You really need to make up your mind, first you describe a rotten job and asked why people don’t care about it and then when people start to explain to you why people were leaving that rotten job you say oh it’s not a rotten job The way you described it in the
OOpening post it sounds like a rotten job!
Make up your mind or just simply describe it accurately. It’s going to be really hard for us to explain the game if you keep changing the rules !


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

AmericanStand said:


> You really need to make up your mind, first you describe a rotten job and asked why people don’t care about it and then when people start to explain to you why people were leaving that rotten job you say oh it’s not a rotten job The way you described it in the
> OOpening post it sounds like a rotten job!
> Make up your mind or just simply describe it accurately. It’s going to be really hard for us to explain the game if you keep changing the rules !


Reread rhe opening post, if you still have trouble reread it again..


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Perhaps I look at jobs a bit differently than song because I’ve never had to work a day in my life. 
Don’t give me wrong I wasn’t born to a rich family with a silver spoon in my mouth. Dad’s idea of the ultimate luxury is a pound of Baloney fried in a skillet ,mom thinks she’s living the life when she happens to have plenty of crackers to put in the meatloaf. 
But when I was 18 I owned my car my property my home my guns my camping equipment free and clear ,not because some rich uncle gave them to me because I in second grade I was working for the neighbors Earning and Nikle at a time. 
I never had to work my parents quite happily fed clothed and put a roof over my head I attended decent public schools, offten on a military base. But if I wanted extra stuff that was my problem. 
I suppose because I didn’t have The drag of providing for the basics until I was 18 I had time to suck away the money and acquire the goods. 
Once established with the home vehicle and the means of providing food for myself I have never since felt like I had to go to work. 
Most people I don’t think will ever Understanf that freedom .
But it certainly gives you a totally different outlook .
I suspect these millennials or someone like that with no wife or kids to support or perhaps even with kids to support could work o couple years at an $80,000 a year job and never have to work again.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

coolrunnin said:


> Reread rhe opening post, if you still have trouble reread it again..


I suppose you may consider it extraordinary to be able to understand something the first time you read it but I don’t find it difficult at all.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

Getting back to OP, I believe it stems from the ever expanding class divide and what that entails. America has a history of slavery...that is, getting someone to do menial labor for free or low wages (immigrants). Wealthy folks frequently hire immigrants from poor countries to take of the lawn, pool and house. This entitlement affects the middle class. Ironic, but this also makes America's productivity rather high, because they either hire cheap immigrants, send jobs overseas or increase productivity via technology. Unfortunately, it has hallowed out the middle class jobs. Anybody who has worked in low paying jobs, knows what turnover is like. While I did my time in $3 jobs, there was some opportunity for a menial middle class job. Those jobs are gone. Now, millennials are up a creek without a paddle, unless they have wealthy parents. And while some with an education can land a 50-80k job, I suspect they haven't really earned it. Start at the real bottom, and I suspect one would appreciate, by all accounts, a middle class job. Sounds like these workers think they are in a $3/hr job. And having worked in USA, I quickly realized why America imports labor. I was told by a fellow staff member to slow down. And when in management, it felt like I was herding cats. Now, before you shoot me down, I also realize there are many Americans who work their behinds off...
I should even the score and point out Canada's productivity sucks, in part because we have a social safety net, and also because our class divide is expanding too. And for some strange reason, we seem to mired in mediocrity. Of course, there are exceptions.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

keenataz said:


> Actually in that case, the company should be liable. She should not have been allowed to work without safety equipment.


 NO !

And that's the reason I and all other businesses have to charge you 500 bucks for a 20 buck Chinese widget.


She knew the rules, do I have to change every one`s diaper, make sure they have a sleep depravation test, check the coffee levels too, make sure their breath does not smell like last nights party still.


You would think a business owner is supposed to be a baby sitter for the walking stupid.....not my fault some dimwit lost her foot.…..


I could break it down how a 5 buck product costs 50 bucks, but people seem to be happy supporting the dumb and dumber and OK with new rules than do not apply to them......so when you get the job boot, go cry in that.

I could also break down how that 10 buck a hour job costs the employer almost 25 bucks a hour to pay 10 bucks due to the same dimwits and stupid regulations.



That socialist paradise is right around the corner, since most of the work is for other than you....


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

keenataz said:


> Actually in that case, the company should be liable. She should not have been allowed to work without safety equipment.


The company was liable due to worker's compensation law. They paid for lost time, medical costs, and in most states, loss of use. If it happened on company time, the company is liable.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

geo in mi said:


> how are you going to call 911 when there's a fire, or when a shooter comes through the door?


You pull a fire alarm then call on a land line.
Businesses still have phones even when they prohibit employee's cell phones.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Perhaps I look at jobs a bit differently than song because I’ve never had to work a day in my life.
> Don’t give me wrong I wasn’t born to a rich family with a silver spoon in my mouth. Dad’s idea of the ultimate luxury is a pound of Baloney fried in a skillet ,mom thinks she’s living the life when she happens to have plenty of crackers to put in the meatloaf.
> But when I was 18 I owned my car my property my home my guns my camping equipment free and clear ,not because some rich uncle gave them to me because I in second grade I was working for the neighbors Earning and Nikle at a time.
> I never had to work my parents quite happily fed clothed and put a roof over my head I attended decent public schools, offten on a military base. But if I wanted extra stuff that was my problem.
> ...


That's my son's plan, he's hoping to retire at 40 at the latest. He can do it if he puts his energy in that direction. As long as the love bug/baby bug doesn't bite (not that I think either of those are bad things, but it would change plans). I think a lot of his friends are working in that direction, too. We don't give that generation enough credit, IMHO.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> Actually in that case, the company should be liable. She should not have been *allowed* to work without safety equipment.


They didn't "allow it".
It was against the rules.
You can't see the steel toes on most shoes.



Irish Pixie said:


> The *company was liable* due to worker's compensation law. They paid for lost time, medical costs, and in most states, loss of use. If it happened on company time, the *company is liable*.


Not necessarily, if the employee willfully violated the rules.
That would be determined at a hearing.
https://www.sfmic.com/work-comp-injured-violating-company-rules/


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

keenataz said:


> Oh you're a government worker too.


LOL but no, a bank.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Mish said:


> That's my son's plan, he's hoping to retire at 40 at the latest. He can do it if he puts his energy in that direction. As long as the love bug/baby bug doesn't bite (not that I think either of those are bad things, but it would change plans). I think a lot of his friends are working in that direction, too. We don't give that generation enough credit, IMHO.


And that goes back to the OP’s original point ! Not everybody values the same things in a job or values them the same amount.
Some people are amazingly grateful to have a job any job other people know it’s not the least bit important.
There’s actually no reason both sides can’t be right.


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## wannabfarmer (Jun 30, 2015)

American stand, i'm not exactly sure where I mentioned at all that I have a rotten job. I actually love my job. no I don't love everything about it but no one does. if you reread the original post I was complaining about people doing things carelessly to risk their jobs. I used having a cell phone as an example. a few posts later it seemed some people were asking questions or weren't clear on where I was going with it which was fine, that's why I responded with a more detailed post. I also understand not everyone values their job the same. my point is most of these people are adults and have children and people that depend on them and they have nothing to fall back on if they lose this job. I was just trying to understand their thinking and see what ideas the group could come up with. its not just the younger generation we also have people that are 40+ doing the exact same things. we have rules in place because of situations that have happened prior. wife was cheating on husband with another man from a different building. on break the husband went to his car which we were allowed to do at the time. he got his gun, which at the time was allowed to be in the car, and shot and killed the guy banging his wife. now we aren't allowed to go back to our cars after we punch in, and if you are suspected that you have a gun in your car the locals are called and search your car and if you have a gun you are immediately fired. some people get around that by not parking on company property though. hopefully this cleared some of the points up on not having a rotten job.


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## wannabfarmer (Jun 30, 2015)

Irish pixie in some cases yes you are right the employer will pay even though the person knowingly broke the rules, I believe it depends on the state. At my company we sign many documents on rules and regs and it in bold states that if you are injured on the job and aren't abiding by the rules set in place for PPE required (company pays for our steel toe boots and any other safety equipment we need) and are injured we are liable for health care costs and we are not allowed to sue the company. now this doesn't mean people don't try. We just had a guy get fired last month for missing too many days. He stepped on a rotating platform while it was spinning and it spun the bottom half of his leg around. He got surgeries and paid time off and came back to work on restricted duty (sitting at a desk putting nuts and bolts into baggies). He was trying to sue them for 660,000 dollars for negligence. He was a poor uneducated man and got ahold of a "injured at work lawyer". He was not trained on the equipment he stepped on and had no business being anywhere near it and could blatantly see it was spinning at a high rate of speed. The company did not fire him even though they knew he intentionally hurt himself. Instead they let him collect and get the medical attention he needed and still provided a job that within his doctors guidelines he could perform and he still got himself fired for having too many unexcused days off. All he had to do was show up and sit at a desk and put crap into bags and was getting 21 an hour to do it! This is the carelessness i'm talking about.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wannabfarmer said:


> Irish pixie in some cases yes you are right the employer will pay even though the person knowingly broke the rules, I believe it depends on the state. At my company we sign many documents on rules and regs and it in bold states that if you are injured on the job and aren't abiding by the rules set in place for PPE required (company pays for our steel toe boots and any other safety equipment we need) and are injured we are liable for health care costs and we are not allowed to sue the company. now this doesn't mean people don't try. We just had a guy get fired last month for missing too many days. He stepped on a rotating platform while it was spinning and it spun the bottom half of his leg around. He got surgeries and paid time off and came back to work on restricted duty (sitting at a desk putting nuts and bolts into baggies). He was trying to sue them for 660,000 dollars for negligence. He was a poor uneducated man and got ahold of a "injured at work lawyer". He was not trained on the equipment he stepped on and had no business being anywhere near it and could blatantly see it was spinning at a high rate of speed. The company did not fire him even though they knew he intentionally hurt himself. Instead they let him collect and get the medical attention he needed and still provided a job that within his doctors guidelines he could perform and he still got himself fired for having too many unexcused days off. All he had to do was show up and sit at a desk and put crap into bags and was getting 21 an hour to do it! This is the carelessness i'm talking about.


Each state has their own worker's compensation rules, but the vast majority will pay unless it can be absolutely established that the employee knowingly and repeatedly violated the rules, as it was indicated in the lawsuit linked in another post. 

I highly recommend retaining a worker's compensation specific attorney if you're hurt at work. It's the only way to protect yourself.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wannabfarmer said:


> American stand, i'm not exactly sure where I mentioned at all that I have a rotten job. I actually love my job. no I don't love everything about it but no one does. if you reread the original post I was complaining about people doing things carelessly to risk their jobs. I used having a cell phone as an example. a few posts later it seemed some people were asking questions or weren't clear on where I was going with it which was fine, that's why I responded with a more detailed post. I also understand not everyone values their job the same. my point is most of these people are adults and have children and people that depend on them and they have nothing to fall back on if they lose this job. I was just trying to understand their thinking and see what ideas the group could come up with. its not just the younger generation we also have people that are 40+ doing the exact same things. we have rules in place because of situations that have happened prior. wife was cheating on husband with another man from a different building. on break the husband went to his car which we were allowed to do at the time. he got his gun, which at the time was allowed to be in the car, and shot and killed the guy banging his wife. now we aren't allowed to go back to our cars after we punch in, and if you are suspected that you have a gun in your car the locals are called and search your car and if you have a gun you are immediately fired. some people get around that by not parking on company property though. hopefully this cleared some of the points up on not having a rotten job.



I think it’s nice that you like your job I suppose that’s why you value your job.

But while you never said you had a rotten job you described a rotten job ,it sounds horrible I can’t imagine working there.

What I’ve tried to explain is while do you like and value your job there are probably many people there, the ones that you don’t understand , That feel like I do that it’s a horrible rotten job. 
Even though they don’t have anything to fall back on they probably think they can go out and get an equivalent job at a moments notice and perhaps they can. 

I’m glad you like your work it is a gift of God when you can enjoy what pays the bills.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I had jobs as a younger man in environments where the co workers as well as management were hostile, the jobs were dirty, hard, underpaid and poorly organized.
We all have days we are less than at our peak, days we don't care, days our spouse or neighbor ticked us off, days we were mourning a loss, days we may have been sick or hungover.
I gave every employer my best. Sometimes my best wasn't good enough but I knew my priorities.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

shawnlee said:


> NO !
> 
> And that's the reason I and all other businesses have to charge you 500 bucks for a 20 buck Chinese widget.
> 
> ...



It has nothing to do with socialism. I know that is your pet worry. It is labour laws. Employers are required to ensure their employees show up with all safety gear. In the mill my son works at, his supervisor checks each employee first thing to ensure they have the gear. It really isn't that hard. And it costs nothing.

It reaslly isn't onerous.

Now if once they are in the mill they decide to take off their hard hat to wipe their head and get bonked,it is likely on the employee. But if a supervisor sees someone without safety gear on beyond something reasonable, as my example, they get sent home.


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## wannabfarmer (Jun 30, 2015)

American stand i'm curious as to how old you are and what do you do for a living. pm me as I don't feel its appropriate or beneficial to the topic i'm just personally curious. i'm not taking any jab at you at all I promise, and I won't relay your personal reply. the only thing I said about my job initially was not being allowed cell phones as an example, and I explained why in my second post and its a legitimate reason. all the jobs average 50 to 80k and the full health benefits including dental and vision. cost me roughly 800 dollars a year with 401k options and yearly bonus and raise. i'm just not computing how you think this is not a good job. its above average for the country even if you had a college degree in some circumstances. you can advance in the company and relocate if you wanted to. 
Irish pixie, I absolutely agree with you. If i'm hurt at work i'm hiring a real attorney. the guy in my example called one of those bogus attorneys who says everyone has a case. the guy wasn't even supposed to be in that part of the building. I was just stating that some people might think that if they get hurt at work they are entitled to money which isn't the case. if you take your hard hat off and an accident happens, absolutely the company will pay. If you are where you are not supposed to be and messing with equipment you shouldn't and haven't been trained on then try to sue the company you are just a piece of crap looking for a pay out for your self inflicted pain. I was saying that even though they knew he did it on purpose they still employed him and gave him the benefit of the doubt and just let him hang himself by missing too many days. I understand this isn't always the case but the majority of work related lawsuits in my area are intentional looking for a pay out. (I live near a REALLY crappy area lol) it might be different in the rest of the country.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I worked for 45 years before I retired. During that time I did witness people doing stupid things that got them fired. Most did this because of COS- chip on shoulder. Most were men with a few women testing the waters and most were older men - and they were unpleasant in other ways as well. The young ones were/are much more hesitant to do anything that would get them fired. But the young ones were/are not afraid to look for other work. Most of the stupid things were just defying the rules but one woman was actually a crook and she was caught.

Those doing stupid things had the attitude that no one was going to tell them what to do. Well, then don't be an employee. Be your own boss.

I think a lot of this bad behaviour had to do with dissatisfaction with their lives. What they ended up doing for a living and other aspects of their personal life. These small and foolish rebellions made them feel as if they were in control. Soon found out who was really in control.

My observation is that most people work to the standard of their own work ethic and despite not liking the job or the employer most people do their best in all circumstances.


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## jerry arnold (Dec 1, 2018)

wannabfarmer said:


> I'm trying to understand why people risk their jobs for stupid reasons. the company I work for employs almost 12 thousand employees and I see a lot of them doing stupid things that could get them fired. whether it be for a joke or pride they just do stupid poop. we aren't allowed to have cell phones on us but they do. they take off days just because they don't feel like working. list goes on and some of the stuff they do isn't just they get a warning. they could be a model employee and having your phone on you is an immediate termination. i'm just trying to understand why people in the 18 to 30 range are willing to risk a 50k-80k a year job with excellent benefits that are very cheap over some dumb childish poop? anyone else notice this at their work or is it just me?


i'm guilty...no photography at work...i've done it lots of times in the last 6-1/2 yrs...nearly lost my job this past monday...won't happen again though...btw i'm 56...shows how smart us old folks are too


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## jerry arnold (Dec 1, 2018)

Bearfootfarm said:


> People as a whole are pretty stupid and self centered.
> 
> Many have never had to face the consequences of their own actions, and think the rules don't apply to them because they are "better", or that they are too smart to get caught.
> 
> Most of them probably figure they can easily get another job if they lose the one they have.


some of us are just hard-headed and don't understand why it's so darn important...btw, my employer says no photography at work...i work the docks...maybe because we have government contracts? idk...jobs are super hard to get...i won't be taking pictures at work...


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## jerry arnold (Dec 1, 2018)

haypoint said:


> I have seen a shift in attitude towards a job. When I started the work force, I was expected to be loyal to my employer and my employer was, within reason, looking out for me. Sort of a unspoken respect. You made sacrifices for your employer. If you were needed to work overtime, you did. If they needed you to work a different shift, you did. You understood that if you weren't productive, the company wasn't profitable and everyone loses.
> 
> But young adults recognize that their employer doesn't care. They expect to change jobs every few years. There is no pension. There is no reward for hard work. If you don't find the job fulfilling, you find another one. If you don't like your hours, you ask for different hours. If you don't get your way, you leave.
> 
> ...


so many points i agree with...i'm 56 though, jobs are hard to get; i'm always gonna be broke but retire in less than 6yr now...my employer says no photography...and that's my vice...no drugs or booze, maybe a missed day on occasion...but i routinely took pics and videos...almost got fired monday...no more photography at work...only because i don't wanna start over now...i just gotta stay under their radar 5 more years and i can be my happy broke self on my place...taking pics and videos of my life then...


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wannabfarmer said:


> American stand i'm curious as to how old you are and what do you do for a living. pm me as I don't feel its appropriate or beneficial to the topic i'm just personally curious. i'm not taking any jab at you at all I promise, and I won't relay your personal reply. the only thing I said about my job initially was not being allowed cell phones as an example, and I explained why in my second post and its a legitimate reason. all the jobs average 50 to 80k and the full health benefits including dental and vision. cost me roughly 800 dollars a year with 401k options and yearly bonus and raise. i'm just not computing how you think this is not a good job. its above average for the country even if you had a college degree in some circumstances. you can advance in the company and relocate if you wanted to.
> Irish pixie, I absolutely agree with you. If i'm hurt at work i'm hiring a real attorney. the guy in my example called one of those bogus attorneys who says everyone has a case. the guy wasn't even supposed to be in that part of the building. I was just stating that some people might think that if they get hurt at work they are entitled to money which isn't the case. if you take your hard hat off and an accident happens, absolutely the company will pay. If you are where you are not supposed to be and messing with equipment you shouldn't and haven't been trained on then try to sue the company you are just a piece of crap looking for a pay out for your self inflicted pain. I was saying that even though they knew he did it on purpose they still employed him and gave him the benefit of the doubt and just let him hang himself by missing too many days. I understand this isn't always the case but the majority of work related lawsuits in my area are intentional looking for a pay out. (I live near a REALLY crappy area lol) it might be different in the rest of the country.


 It’s OK a person’s background Influences responses. 
At this time in my life I farm I deliver vehicles I build industrial machinery and I prospect. 
I have done many things in the past I spent some time as a carpenter, the janitor, the government employee of the Bureau of landmanagement, Bureauof Indian affairs, the forest service, I’ve raised sheep and fish, I have drove truck of most types ,I have operated garbage Companies, I’ve worked on fishing boats, I’ve been a real estate agent, Are used to work on a crew mowing and trimming federal parks,I thought fire and I’m sure there are a few more that I just can’t think of at the moment. 
Currently I’m in my 60s but I’m hoping to exceed that .
I just got married to a beautiful young lady and she thinks I need to settle Down .


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Had a few female Corrections Officers get caned for having sex with convicts. I couldn't ever understand that. Lose your job over a guy that can't support you.


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## jerry arnold (Dec 1, 2018)

haypoint said:


> Had a few female Corrections Officers get caned for having sex with convicts. I couldn't ever understand that. Lose your job over a guy that can't support you.


Happens often...sometimes it's men officers


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## cjennmom (Sep 4, 2010)

What are their circumstances? I got my first cell phone in early 2003 at the age of 29. I had gone back to college, my kids (infant and toddler) were in daycare, and the daycare was po'd because a couple of times when they called the school with a problem I didn't get the message in a timely manner; in one case it was even two hours after. If parents can't be reached by caregivers, it's considered neglect and DCYF gets involved.



wannabfarmer said:


> I'm trying to understand why people risk their jobs for stupid reasons. the company I work for employs almost 12 thousand employees and I see a lot of them doing stupid things that could get them fired. whether it be for a joke or pride they just do stupid poop. we aren't allowed to have cell phones on us but they do. they take off days just because they don't feel like working. list goes on and some of the stuff they do isn't just they get a warning. they could be a model employee and having your phone on you is an immediate termination. i'm just trying to understand why people in the 18 to 30 range are willing to risk a 50k-80k a year job with excellent benefits that are very cheap over some dumb childish poop? anyone else notice this at their work or is it just me?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

haypoint said:


> Had a few female Corrections Officers get caned for having sex with convicts. I couldn't ever understand that. Lose your job over a guy that can't support you.


So you only understand love for money?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

haypoint said:


> Had a few female Corrections Officers get caned for having sex with convicts. I couldn't ever understand that. Lose your job over a guy that can't support you.


Canned or caned ?


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

haypoint said:


> Had a few female Corrections Officers get caned for having sex with convicts. I couldn't ever understand that.


Well, you have to figure the guys are there and aren't going to be going anywhere. With the guys locked up, and little access to other women, they are probably always willing and ready.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Based on my experiences working for the Department of Correction with both male and female populations, I have noticed a few things.

The implications of getting involved with an inmate seem painfully obvious, but there is more than meets the eye. I, for good or ill, do not require a relationship. Some people are in a state of crisis if they do not, and there is a lot of filled space between those extremes. Many inmates are master manipulators. Most staff work enough hours that most of their waking hours are spent in prison. This is a recipe for disaster for those not prepared to deal with it. I wasn't completely impervious to this effect, but in my case it was manifested in a desire to see certain inmates succeed at living an upright life rather than, well, appeasing the prurient interest. That said, I am thankful that they did NOT catch me teaching an inmate geometry so she could get her GED. If I got branded a pinko for not writing an inmate up for putting her feet on a chair I could only imagine how the geometry would have gone down.

That said, sex with inmates is a bad idea, always ends badly even for those who don't get caught, and I certainly would not offer any advice other than just plain don't. On the other hand, I consider it important to understand how people find their way into this rather than simply dismissing them as sinners or tax collectors and looking down our noses as we pass them in the ditch.

Another unfortunate truth is that many of the staff are little different from the inmates in the first place. Many of my acquaintance freely admitted that the only difference is that they never got caught. Beyond this, there is a tendency for staff to become corrupted by the environment , becoming more like the inmates in both philosophy and behavior.

On this last point, we find one of the biggest problem issues between a number of other staff and I. One of my characteristics which can be beneficial at times and a huge liability at others is that I tend to absorb the emotions of others very easily. I didn't have much trouble with the mens facility here, but the women were a different story. I realized very quickly that I wasn't going to survive in a building full of depressed women so I set about encouraging them to move up to where I live rather than letting the environment drag me down. This drove most other staff crazy, and of course, they supplied their own explanations, small minds and all. Conversely, someone not prepared to think it through and devise a way of nullifying that influence could become very vulnerable.


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## jerry arnold (Dec 1, 2018)

IndyDave said:


> Based on my experiences working for the Department of Correction with both male and female populations, I have noticed a few things.
> 
> The implications of getting involved with an inmate seem painfully obvious, but there is more than meets the eye. I, for good or ill, do not require a relationship. Some people are in a state of crisis if they do not, and there is a lot of filled space between those extremes. Many inmates are master manipulators. Most staff work enough hours that most of their waking hours are spent in prison. This is a recipe for disaster for those not prepared to deal with it. I wasn't completely impervious to this effect, but in my case it was manifested in a desire to see certain inmates succeed at living an upright life rather than, well, appeasing the prurient interest. That said, I am thankful that they did NOT catch me teaching an inmate geometry so she could get her GED. If I got branded a pinko for not writing an inmate up for putting her feet on a chair I could only imagine how the geometry would have gone down.
> 
> ...


Well said


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> Each state has their own worker's compensation rules, but the vast majority will pay unless it can be absolutely established that the employee knowingly and repeatedly violated the rules, as it was indicated in the lawsuit linked in another post.
> 
> I highly recommend retaining a worker's compensation specific attorney if you're hurt at work. It's the only way to protect yourself.


 Or punish the employer and raise the costs for everyone, it is all dependent on perspective.


Being involved with a few large employers I have seen some real winners that should of never been hired due to lack of common sense......it was only a matter of time before they tripped head first over their own feet in to a large machine and lost body parts..... it was easily seen by most that it would happen to them.


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## wannabfarmer (Jun 30, 2015)

American stand, I understand your responses a little more now. Almost all of the jobs you mentioned are outside or you were your own boss. More free to do as you please. My job is just different not better or worse. It's not for you but it's far from being a rotten job.


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## tiffanysgallery (Jan 17, 2015)

haypoint said:


> Had a few female Corrections Officers get caned for having sex with convicts. I couldn't ever understand that. Lose your job over a guy that can't support you.


They just weren't thinking or they fall for bad boys. And, no amount of staff training makes a difference if officers find those with criminal histories attractive. Or, they may not fully understand they're vulnerable to an emotional bond until after they lose their job.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> I highly recommend retaining a worker's compensation specific attorney if you're hurt at work. It's the only way to protect yourself.


Wearing steel toe shoes and following safety rules is "protection".
Hiring a lawyer is "mitigation"


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## wannabfarmer (Jun 30, 2015)

I also saw someone post about death from lead exposure. I'm a firm believer that the lead and acid are harmful but I dont work in a building with them and I'm not exposed to it at all. In the plants where they are exposed to it they are provided a uniform which stays on site and is cleaned by our own laundry service. They are also required to fully shower before leaving. Also they get monthly blood tests to keep track of their lead level. If it becomes too high they are moved to a job where they aren't exposed to lead for a month and tested again. Once their lead level goes back down they are moved back to their original job. I'm not sure about being exposed to lead and acid so I'll just stay where I'm at lol.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

IndyDave said:


> Based on my experiences working for the Department of Correction with both male and female populations, I have noticed a few things.
> 
> The implications of getting involved with an inmate seem painfully obvious, but there is more than meets the eye. I, for good or ill, do not require a relationship. Some people are in a state of crisis if they do not, and there is a lot of filled space between those extremes. Many inmates are master manipulators. Most staff work enough hours that most of their waking hours are spent in prison. This is a recipe for disaster for those not prepared to deal with it. I wasn't completely impervious to this effect, but in my case it was manifested in a desire to see certain inmates succeed at living an upright life rather than, well, appeasing the prurient interest. That said, I am thankful that they did NOT catch me teaching an inmate geometry so she could get her GED. If I got branded a pinko for not writing an inmate up for putting her feet on a chair I could only imagine how the geometry would have gone down.
> 
> ...


Wow just wow!
Post of the year, it seem insightful and painfully honest.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wannabfarmer said:


> American stand, I understand your responses a little more now. Almost all of the jobs you mentioned are outside or you were your own boss. More free to do as you please. My job is just different not better or worse. It's not for you but it's far from being a rotten job.


Thank you, I think if you follow that thinking you will begin to understand why your coworkers don’t value their jobs like you do. 
What is a wonderful job for one person could be a terribly wrong job for next. 
I’ve seen many women appalled at not knowing when I will work again or how much I will work for, or when I will see another paycheck.
Spending weeks or even months Idol with nothing to do and then suddenly working 130 hours a week or so,Gone from home for a month or two. 
Does that sound like a rotten job are you?
I think it’s a great job. 
See that’s the thing a job can be wonderful and perfect one for one person and totally rotten horrible for someone else.


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## jerry arnold (Dec 1, 2018)

tiffanysgallery said:


> They just weren't thinking or they fall for bad boys. And, no amount of staff training makes a difference if officers find those with criminal histories attractive. Or, they may not fully understand they're vulnerable to an emotional bond until after they lose their job.


The men that go after female inmates often like the power play


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

jerry arnold said:


> so many points i agree with...i'm 56 though, jobs are hard to get; i'm always gonna be broke but retire in less than 6yr now...my employer says no photography...and that's my vice...no drugs or booze, maybe a missed day on occasion...but i routinely took pics and videos...almost got fired monday...no more photography at work...only because i don't wanna start over now...i just gotta stay under their radar 5 more years and i can be my happy broke self on my place...taking pics and videos of my life then...


40 years ago most places did not allow picture taken at work. Very good reasons for this from the stand point of the employer. I have owned business. I did not allow picture taken at my place. The main reason for no pictures is other companies will pay for photos on certain things so they can steal contracts. This is a big business that other companies will try and get your contract. A lot more to this then most people would even think about. 
One contract could be worth million for some jobs. If i am doing the same contract and find a way to cut cost from another company that would allow me to under bit the other company. I didn't really care if someone happen to take a few nuts and bolts home. Just so they could mae me a good profit on the contract. Of in meeting you always stress that a person will be fired if they steal nuts etc. As far as unsafe workers they don't last long because it cost much for insurance and other things. They may also injury someone else on the job so that is double trouble. If you have a business with more then one employee you better have good insurance. If you don't someone else will have your property.


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## jerry arnold (Dec 1, 2018)

101pigs said:


> 40 years ago most places did not allow picture taken at work. Very good reasons for this from the stand point of the employer. I have owned business. I did not allow picture taken at my place. The main reason for no pictures is other companies will pay for photos on certain things so they can steal contracts. This is a big business that other companies will try and get your contract. A lot more to this then most people would even think about.
> One contract could be worth million for some jobs. If i am doing the same contract and find a way to cut cost from another company that would allow me to under bit the other company. I didn't really care if someone happen to take a few nuts and bolts home. Just so they could mae me a good profit on the contract. Of in meeting you always stress that a person will be fired if they steal nuts etc. As far as unsafe workers they don't last long because it cost much for insurance and other things. They may also injury someone else on the job so that is double trouble. If you have a business with more then one employee you better have good insurance. If you don't someone else will have your property.


Trust me...no more pics...i don't have to understand why


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## wannabfarmer (Jun 30, 2015)

cjennmom, that is a gray area. I personally still wouldn't risk my job but I would give the school or daycare the office number so I could be called over the intercom to the office and accept the call and leave if I had to. most of the people that have their phones on them and use those phone watches, they use the phones to go in the bathroom and text and waste time or check sports scores. im sure if it were an emergency and you pulled the manager aside and explained what was going on they would allow us. the main plant is more strict. I did hear about a guy who's wife was pregnant and due any day. they let him have his phone on him until the baby was born but it had to be in a ziplock bag so it wouldn't get any lead on it and the bag had to be thrown away after every shift.


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

lmrose said:


> Things are no different here especially in minimum retail or service jobs. I just had a conversation with a frustrated employer who can't find reliable help in a small local garden center/ convenience store. She hires under thirty people. They call in sick several times a month, have to be given detailed instructions and haven't got a clue how to treat customers and they are addicted to their phones. I don't believe all young workers are like this but I have heard this complaint a lot the past few years. If my opinion is asked I tell them to give older applicants a chance. Maybe those 40 -50 + yrs who really need work of any kind to support a family. Anyone who has struggled to care for a family appreciates an opportunity . Most retail jobs require high school diploma as a minimum requirement. Some retail and service industry employees over fifty don't have high school but are still reliable workers. Anyone really needing work will not risk losing their job doing silly things or breaking the rules. The ones who do are a product of the generation of self entitlement who seem to reason they can do whatever they want without any consequences. The only cure is the road of hard knocks where you lose your job for breaking rules or being lazy. Being hungry and no rent money for a while should cure the problem. That works if the parents who raised these self-entitled kids stop bailing them out and let them grow up!


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Well I read the whole thread. Interesting. Lots of thoughts about work ethics or lack of. 

Basic problem just seems to be lack of personal accountability and honor. 

If you hire on to do a job then you have agreed the to pay, the rules, and the conditions. Do what you said you would do, get the reward you agreed to. If you no longer like it for some reason then move on down the road. It’s simple.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Redlands Okie said:


> Well I read the whole thread. Interesting. Lots of thoughts about work ethics or lack of.
> 
> Basic problem just seems to be lack of personal accountability and honor.
> 
> If you hire on to do a job then you have agreed the to pay, the rules, and the conditions. Do what you said you would do, get the reward you agreed to. If you no longer like it for some reason then move on down the road. It’s simple.


But What if after they hire you they change the pay the conditions and the rules?
What about the company that introduced you to come to work for them based on promises of good pay good working condition good rules and to be specific for retirement after 25 years.?
Should they be allowed to change all that at their whim after 20 years or even 15?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

In fact why should he be allowed to change any of that after even one year?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> But What if after they hire you they change the pay the conditions and the rules?
> What about the company that introduced you to come to work for them based on promises of good pay good working condition good rules and to be specific for retirement after 25 years.?
> Should they be allowed to change all that at their whim after 20 years or even 15?


Yep, and you should have every right to go find a different job if your not happy with any of their rules at any point.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

AmericanStand said:


> But What if after they hire you they change the pay the conditions and the rules?
> What about the company that introduced you to come to work for them based on promises of good pay good working condition good rules and to be specific for retirement after 25 years.?
> Should they be allowed to change all that at their whim after 20 years or even 15?


If you signed a contract stipulating all this then no charges should occur. (You not some negotiating body)
Otherwise find a new position


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Yep, and you should have every right to go find a different job if your not happy with any of their rules at any point.


What about a good job you passed up because you were lied to? Should you be entitled to compensation for that opportunity that no longer exists? Take it out of your employers kneecaps with a baseball bat?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Yep, and you should have every right to go find a different job if your not happy with any of their rules at any point.


 Sure you can go to your new job but that doesn’t make you whole say you are five years into your job when things change if you go to a new job then you’ve lost five years That could have applied to your retirement


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

The younger you are the more of a multiplicative affect these things happen. For instance as a young man in my teens and employer stole $25,000 from me. That has affected every year since that and how many times has it been multiplied ?
I am sure that by this point all these years later the lack of that $25,000 working capital has cost me many millions of dollars


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

IndyDave said:


> What about a good job you passed up because you were lied to? Should you be entitled to compensation for that opportunity that no longer exists? Take it out of your employers kneecaps with a baseball bat?


Everyone makes choices in life, some good, some not so good. If you passed up what you now think was a better deal elsewhere that's your fault, not your employers fault.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Everyone makes choices in life, some good, some not so good. If you passed up what you now think was a better deal elsewhere that's your fault, not your employers fault.


 Are you forgetting the point is the employer lied ?
I’ve seen it several times. A employer will lie or spout blue sky , work a young up and commer till they realize it’s a dead end road then when the guy is no longer that valuable young employee start cutting him down or back.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> Are you forgetting the point is the employer lied ?
> I’ve seen it several times. A employer will lie or spout blue sky , work a young up and commer till they realize it’s a dead end road then when the guy is no longer that valuable young employee start cutting him down or back.


Nope, I didn't forget. Have you forgotten the old phrase "the grass is always greener"? I never had a boss that treated me right, which is why I never locked into one any longer than was necessary to put together a stake and get back to working for myself. Having a job was always considered one tiny step above being a complete failure when I was growing up. A necessary evil at best to be endured temporarily during the hardest of times. Growing up in a family of entrepreneurs in an area filled with entrepreneurs does that to a feller.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

geo in mi said:


> No cell phones? That would be unusual. Many companies today use cell phones for internal communications. Some used two-way radios, then switched to phones for more privacy . And, seriously, how are you going to call 911 when there's a fire, or when a shooter comes through the door?
> 
> geo


The company I retired from still prohibits personal cellphones due to the no authorized photographing and non company monitored phone conversation security requirements listed in the employment contracts.

Despite employees agreeing to the conditions when they sign their contracts after it being explained to them at hiring and being given the emergency call in number that routes in through the secure phone network, there are still people getting terminated for using their phones they sneaked in to take photographs 50 years after the no camera / no tape recorder rule went into affect or talking or texting in the few non faraday shielded areas of the plant in the 30 years since the cell phone ban was added to the restrictions.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Everyone makes choices in life, some good, some not so good. If you passed up what you now think was a better deal elsewhere that's your fault, not your employers fault.


I would agree had I made a choice between the two based on truthful information that I processed incorrectly. If the present employer lured me in with a better deal that proved to be a falsehood, I would definitely be inclined to spend some quality time with a baseball bat and his knees.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Nope, I didn't forget. Have you forgotten the old phrase "the grass is always greener"? I never had a boss that treated me right, which is why I never locked into one any longer than was necessary to put together a stake and get back to working for myself. Having a job was always considered one tiny step above being a complete failure when I was growing up. A necessary evil at best to be endured temporarily during the hardest of times. Growing up in a family of entrepreneurs in an area filled with entrepreneurs does that to a feller.


I still can’t see how that would give a employer a license to lie without recourse?
Think of it in terms of a remote area contract.
We will give you 50 a hour 80 hours a week paid into your banking account at home for a year then fly you home .
Doesn’t mean they can get away with telling you at the end of the year that they had some unforeseen circumstances so no pay walk home by the way you lost it while you were gone and don’t bother us.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

By the way this kind of thing is one of the obvious reasons that all employees need to be union members. Seldom has the employee had as many jobs as the employer has hired.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> I still can’t see how that would give a employer a license to lie without recourse?
> Think of it in terms of a remote area contract.
> We will give you 50 a hour 80 hours a week paid into your banking account at home for a year then fly you home .
> Doesn’t mean they can get away with telling you at the end of the year that they had some unforeseen circumstances so no pay walk home by the way you lost it while you were gone and don’t bother us.


Anyone with any sense would check their bank account during a year. We also have contracts, and courts for the purpose of recourse. We even have attorneys available to help guide you through


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Anyone with any sense would check their bank account during a year. We also have contracts, and courts for the purpose of recourse. We even have attorneys available to help guide you through


How Would you have done that 20 30 40 50 years ago?
Even today there are places where it would be difficult requiring a expensive satellite phone .
And of course your advice is quite clearly reasonable on the way to go in retrospect not nearly as obvious looking forward. 
In fact I have to ask if you’re stuck someplace for a year why would you even bother? There’s nothing you can do about it. Except perhaps start walking


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Why would anyone take that job.... 20,30,40 or 50 years ago? Again it's all about choices, some wise, some not so much.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Why would anyone take that job.... 20,30,40 or 50 years ago? Again it's all about choices, some wise, some not so much.


I'll go for a compromise here. An employer can lie, cheat, and steal from me so long as I get to express my grievances in excruciating pain inflicted on that employer.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

IndyDave said:


> I'll go for a compromise here. An employer can lie, cheat, and steal from me so long as I get to express my grievances in excruciating pain inflicted on that employer.


Which brings us back to choices, some well thought out and wise, others.... Not so much.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Get it in writing, or, it never happened.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Which brings us back to choices, some well thought out and wise, others.... Not so much.


So you support liars?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

IndyDave said:


> So you support liars?


Nope, nor do I encourage stupid.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

IndyDave said:


> I'll go for a compromise here. An employer can lie, cheat, and steal from me so long as I get to express my grievances in excruciating pain inflicted on that employer.


Employers aren't the only ones who lie cheat and steal. It is a human condition. I've seen both frog marched out the door.
And for the post stating that this is why every employee needs a union, that would be like a guy with ring worm getting treated by Dracula.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Why would anyone take that job.... 20,30,40 or 50 years ago? Again it's all about choices, some wise, some not so much.


$4000 a week was pretty good money 50 years ago. Why not take it ?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

GTX63 said:


> Employers aren't the only ones who lie cheat and steal. It is a human condition. I've seen both frog marched out the door.
> And for the post stating that this is why every employee needs a union, that would be like a guy with ring worm getting treated by Dracula.


I don’t understand what you’re trying to illustrate.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> $4000 a week was pretty good money 50 years ago. Why not take it ?


Sounds risky, you might spend a year working for nothing to show for it but a long walk home.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

GTX63 said:


> Employers aren't the only ones who lie cheat and steal. It is a human condition. I've seen both frog marched out the door.
> And for the post stating that this is why every employee needs a union, that would be like a guy with ring worm getting treated by Dracula.


True enough. My objection is to the suggestion that if you are harmed by a lying employer it is your fault you believed him rather than his fault that he deliberately chose to lie to you


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Sounds risky, you might spend a year working for nothing to show for it but a long walk home.


Lol it’s a risk you take whenever you are employed.


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