# A thread you need to read....about taking what you have



## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sp...84-rubio-blows-conservatives.html#post5965406

this is in the Political forum, but you need to read the response to it.
It shows a mind set of others, that if their family is hungry will come and take, and kill to feed their family.

Think about it. They are understanding why the illegals come, and putting the thinking upon themselves and circumstances.

Now, think about having that attitude coming for something YOU have worked for, grown/bought, etc and they want it.

It was rather astounding me to see the posts about taking, killing if their family was hungry. And that's current HT membership people.

So, read it and think about what's being said.


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2012)

Some of the people on that thread are also posters on this forum, so I am not surprised.
But some of them have been on this forum saying it would be wrong not to share our preps is something bad happened. Some of them prep some don't. Go figure on that one. i guess most people don't have a clue what they would do either way till it happens.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

and I'm getting drawn into it more than I usually allow myself in that forum.

But this is something we need to know is being thought and should be ready to confront and have our minds ready.


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## Rocktown Gal (Feb 19, 2008)

Pretty much everyone posting over there is going to steal what you have or kill you for it. So now is the time to prepare to save what you have from those that believe that they are entitled to it.

I'm trying to stay out of it.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

But we do need to be aware that even on a homesteading site, there are those that are planning to appropriate as needed using whatever means necessary.


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## Rocktown Gal (Feb 19, 2008)

Correct


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2012)

If it came down to literally starving for lack of any other way to feed our families or taking what someone else has I am of the belief that a great many in this forum would do the same.

That is why we are survivalists. So that we won't ever find ourselves forced to such a necessity. We foresee, we plan, we do what we need to do. We institute governments to assist us towards those ends _"provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare."_ All to keep us from ever having to face such stark choices.

Other nations, other governments fall woefully short of the mark in those respects. Some folks flee because they are in fear of theirs or their family's lives from a despotic government. Others flee because they are in fear of their family's lives from a negligent one.

Naturally they will run towards whatever place of refuge they can find. No different than we would ourselves under similar circumstances. Which in turn brings our own government into play which is to defend our borders. Except that our government is paralyzed in this regard because we have too many powerful factions _on both the Left and the Right_ who want the situation to remain as it is because they benefit from it.

It won't be any different if ever we do for-real find ourselves in a TEOTWAWKI situation. If you are not prepared to cope with that then stop playing at being a prepper and find some other way to pass the time.


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## Rocktown Gal (Feb 19, 2008)

What they are telling us is this...

If you have a garden...I will steal from it
If you have animals...I will steal them for food
If you have chickens...I will take there eggs and them too for food
If you have water...I will steal to get it
If you have anything of value...I will steal it to get food or whatever I need
If you get in my way...I will kill you

There are way more with this thinking then I thought...especially on a homesteading board.


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## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

And this all ties in with the post of Angies "Poll about this HT Index Location", the thread titled "Telling everyone you're a prepper" and the thread titled "S/O of Chaos - How many food storage area's do you have"

If I had food storage or extra of anything, I certainly wouldn't talk about it here.  We already know that the entitlement attitude is prevelant in today's society. Why should or would we think it was truly any different here? (on HT in general)

When it comes to their children, people will do almost anything to feed & protect them.


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## TerraFarm (Jun 4, 2012)

What disturbs me is that it seems to have been started by someone just to bait people of differing beliefs. She called it "Fun".


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## TerraFarm (Jun 4, 2012)

cnichols said:


> And this all ties in with the post of Angies "Poll about this HT Index Location", the thread titled "Telling everyone you're a prepper" and the thread titled "S/O of Chaos - How many food storage area's do you have"
> 
> If I had food storage or extra of anything, I certainly wouldn't talk about it here.  We already know that the entitlement attitude is prevelant in today's society. Why should or would we think it was truly any different here? (on HT in general)
> 
> *When it comes to their children, people will do almost anything to feed & protect them*.


Yes. I would. That's why I prep. I am ensuring that my family survives. If someone feels entitled to what I worked and sweated for-they can try and give it a shot. I can't say I wouldn't kill to protect my family. But I'd never feel entitled to take what someone else worked for.


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2012)

Rocktown Gal said:


> What they are telling us is this...
> 
> If you have a garden...I will steal from it
> If you have animals...I will steal them for food
> ...


 When I find their starved corpse THEN I will believe that any given person would not do the same to keep their family's alive under similar circumstances.

No rewriting the story, no changing the circumstances. They have NOTHING to eat and no honorable way to get anything to eat. They will simply sit complacently and starve to death.

I will believe that when I see it. People have done just that, but they have been in the distinct minority.

It has always been this way, it is still that way right now, and I am of the belief it will always be that way. 

Better to think of a way to head those problems off before they become problems in the first place.

But there is no absolute security. There just isn't. It may come to pass in spite of all that we do. In such circumstances the above IS going to occur. Rather than complain about it figure out a way to do something about it.


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2012)

I prep because i want to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. But i see now, even prepping can bring problems. So now what do you do?

But i also prep because our goverment has done a poor job of taking care of our general welfare.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I agree Alan, it will happen if someone is hungry enough (or just mean enough).
So we need to think of what if.... and prepare our thoughts and how to carry out our thoughs.


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## Rocktown Gal (Feb 19, 2008)

I agree. They are going to do this. I was interrupted and didn't come back to say that I need to figure out a way to keep what I have.

Is bringing animals closer to the house a better way? Electric fence around the garden? I need to figure out how to keep safe the things that I do have.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

so certain death of starving to death or , breaking laws at will to survive , with the risk of death if caught.

not new news when left with a slow painful death of starvation , a meal with a #% of catching a bullet getting it , that bullet #% may not sound so bad 

so you are left trying to first make sure not to let to many people know what you have , and second keep what is yours, yours. we all know you can't fend off endless attacks so at least give the impression that a persons odds of not catching a bullet are better at the next place.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

veggiecanner said:


> But i see now, even prepping can bring problems. So now what do you do?
> .


What, the problems of defending what you have worked and prepared for the hard times with?
What are you saying with the portion of your post I quoted?

What problems happen if you DON"T prepare and stay reasonably aware?


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2012)

I am just saying if you don't get skinny and have the smell of food coming from your place, it's going to cause problems.
I guess the same thing that tells me to be responsible for my self, also makes me not want to go as far as to harm others to protect mystuff. Not saying I wouldn't. But most people are not programmed to premeditate harm to other people. Did you ever think you would ever have to protect yourself with force, I mean before the last 3-4 years anyway.
This country is sure changeing.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

veggiecanner - if you've not read Tom Sherry's "Deep Winter" series, see about doing so, it will give you ideas, but through the worse, there is hope for a community to come through the bad times.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

veggiecanner said:


> I am just saying if you don't get skinny and have the smell of food coming from your place, it's going to cause problems.
> I guess the same thing that tells me to be responsible for my self, also makes me not want to go as far as to harm others to protect my stuff. Not saying I wouldn't. But most people are not programmed to premeditate harm to other people. Did you ever think you would ever have to protect yourself with force, I mean before the last 3-4 years anyway.
> This country is sure changeing.


Unfortunately, part of prepping is knowing yourself and training your mind for all possiblitys. We have talked about this in other threads. How do you react in a instant,do you freeze,cry,or become stone cold serious. Say like me, I had to get the gun off the headboard,go arround the doorway ect . knowing someone had entered my home in the night. I found out what I know now. But, I can't stand it that I get startled by own scarecrow in the garden. Confusing,but I try to work on it.


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## RebelDigger (Aug 5, 2010)

This is why I just keep on keeping on. I garden and do all the normal homesteading stuff and put by as I can. We have weapons and ammo for them but, not a great amount, really what is enough anyway? I just go on the premise that I cannot control other people's actions, only my own and trust in God that if I am faithful to Him and put Him in charge while doing what I can, things will turn out. If not, and someone kills me for what I have, then I have faith that I am going to a better place anyway. 

As far as Rubio's statement goes, I have to say that if I were sitting on the side of the road with my grandkids and we were starving and cold and in dire straits and all we had to do was cross the road to get food, shelter and a place to sleep but, crossing that 12 foot wide strip of road was illegal -- I would definitely cross the road. BUT after I got a handle on my situation and my grandkids were fed and safe, I would cross the road again, to go back and do what I could to fix the situation that caused me problems in the first place.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

I think on the other thread, people were exaggerating the drama factor to keep from criticizing one of their political party's popular sons.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

veggiecanner said:


> I am just saying if you don't get skinny and have the smell of food coming from your place, it's going to cause problems.
> I guess the same thing that tells me to be responsible for my self, also makes me not want to go as far as to harm others to protect mystuff. Not saying I wouldn't. But most people are not programmed to premeditate harm to other people. *Did you ever think you would ever have to protect yourself with force, I mean before the last 3-4 years anyway.*This country is sure changeing.


Yes. My whole life I have been prepared to protect myself, my family and my stuff. I do and have used force to accomplish it.

Your keyword above is "programmed".

It's not that people need to be programmed to defend themselves, it's that most people are programmed not to defend themselves. Today we have LE to call. People have become dependant on LE. Most of the time, their dependancy results in them being victims. For "stuff" we have insurance. People are programmed to allow theft because insurance will pay.

The SE&P forum(to me) is not just about SHTF or TEOTWAWKI. It is about any possible situation and not being dependant on government to get us out of a situation.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

MO_cows said:


> I think on the other thread, people were exaggerating the drama factor to keep from criticizing one of their political party's popular sons.


That is the root of that discussion.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

AngieM2 said:


> veggiecanner - if you've not read Tom Sherry's "Deep Winter" series, see about doing so, it will give you ideas, but through the worse, there is hope for a *community* to come through the bad times.


Keyword there is community.

Loners and rogues who say they'll steal and kill others won't do very well trying to stand up against a well organized community. If loners and rogues are wanting to steal from the community, or even if the community is wanting to steal from the loners, it will always be the community that comes out ahead in bad times.

A single person or single family can do all the prepping they want and have it all stocked within an isolated fortress but if they aren't part of a community and not willing to work and share with the community in bad times, then all their prepping will have been to no avail in the end. In the end the community will organize together and come to take over or take it all away.

People who say "If I or my family is starving because I never prepped, then I will come and steal from you and kill you" are just people with big mouths blowing out a lot of hot air. They're living in a fantasy world in their own minds. They have no sense of reality.

The only way for people to survive and thrive in bad times is within a community.

.


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2012)

With peoples mindsets now it's getting difficult to put together a comunity.

If several families did get together and at some point the comunity ran out of supplies, it could easily implode. One set of parents could decide their kids need what little is left and the same thing could happen anyway.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm afraid with the political atmosphere we've been push into; many people will not trust right away "community".There will be bad times before people's need lets them trust.Heck, I'm even feeling it with my own family.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

veggiecanner said:


> With peoples mindsets now it's getting difficult to put together a comunity.
> 
> If several families did get together and at some point the comunity ran out of supplies, it could easily implode. One set of parents could decide their kids need what little is left and the same thing could happen anyway.


Ha,you posted while I was trying to spell!


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

veggiecanner said:


> With peoples mindsets now it's getting difficult to put together a comunity.
> 
> If several families did get together and at some point the comunity ran out of supplies, it could easily implode. One set of parents could decide their kids need what little is left and the same thing could happen anyway.


I don't think so. If things get really bad people will form into communities for their survival. It's an instinctive thing for people to seek out other people to be with when they're in trouble.

If a community ran out of supplies then it won't implode, the people within the community won't turn on each other. Instead they will send out raiding parties or else the whole community would pack up and move to either raid or to join another community. 

If one set of parents decide they or their kids need what little is left and tries to hoard or steal, the community will cast them out of the community for their treachery.

.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

veggiecanner said:


> With peoples mindsets now it's getting difficult to put together a comunity.
> 
> If several families did get together and at some point the comunity ran out of supplies, it could easily implode. One set of parents could decide their kids need what little is left and the same thing could happen anyway.


Is that enough reason not to try?
And all good communities are put together of people that work to take care of themselves, then the community. If they are taken care of, then this does not arise.

And the Book of Life, does not have "Easy" as a chapter.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

naturelover said:


> I don't think so. If things get really bad people will form into communities for their survival. It's an instinctive thing for people to seek out other people to be with when they're in trouble.
> 
> If a community ran out of supplies then it won't implode, the people within the community won't turn on each other. Instead they will send out raiding parties or else the whole community would pack up and move to either raid or to join another community.
> 
> ...


You've been watching too much reality tv.

Community only works when the individuals involved are not dependant on the community.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

time said:


> You've been watching too much reality tv.
> 
> Community only works when the individuals involved are not dependant on the community.


I don't watch ANY reality shows because none of them are real. They are all a lot of nonsense and scripted propaganda.

Community works when the whole community cooperates and everyone is dependent on each other.

.


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2012)

AngieM2 said:


> Is that enough reason not to try?
> And all good communities are put together of people that work to take care of themselves, then the community. If they are taken care of, then this does not arise.
> 
> And the Book of Life, does not have "Easy" as a chapter.


I am sorry if in any way you thought I didn't want to try. I only intended to give additional senarios to the situation. i have every intention of trying as well as succeding. 
If i had no intention of trying I promise i would not be wasting the other peoples time on here for me to learn this information.


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## Kshobbit (May 14, 2002)

When I finished reading all the posts from both forums, all I could say was, "wow!" I started living a more natural lifestyle in 1976. It was to raise my children in a healthier enviroment and live closer to the land. I am still doing it today on the same small scale as I did years ago. TMEN warned of all the impending disasters including the nasty water we drink every day now.
An NBA star told people after Hurricane Katrina, that we needed to be prepared to take care of ourselves as it was apparent the Federal Government was incapable of helping in a massive disaster.
I had a neighbor tell me if anything happened she was coming to me for help! How do you handle that one? This is Kansas and if someone needs help all they have to do is ask. It does not matter where you came from or what your politics or religion or color of skin, we help each other.
Frankly I am ashamed of a lot of you folks here on this forum. If this is an indication of who will survive, armed people ready to shoot you or the very rich with their underground hideouts and also ready to shoot you. You guys can have this planet. I don't want to live here with any of you.


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## TerraFarm (Jun 4, 2012)

naturelover said:


> I don't watch ANY reality shows because none of them are real. They are all a lot of nonsense and scripted propaganda.
> 
> Community works when the whole community cooperates and everyone is dependent on each other.
> 
> .


Community works in a small town setting. Not if, like as in my case, I can't stand these people in the BEST of times. I have no desire in the least to assist most of them in any way. If I had to depend on most of these spoiled people, I'd starve. They don't wish to talk to me when they're not hungry, I don't wish to talk to them when they are.

On the other hand, I do know one thing-if they wanted to take from me, they'd be completely ineffective. Not many of them has done a hard days work in their lives.


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Angie-don't know why you would be surprised at comments-is'nt this the mentality foisted on us for 50yrs-YOU have to supply US with everything WE want-for free.Why ANYONE thinks they have the RIGHT to anyones hard earned money is beyond me.If you would rather waste money on stupid stuff(cars,latest electronics,etc,etc)instead of prepping for ANY type of bad times-I have no problem-just don't show up on MY door and expect us to share what we have put away at our sacrifice.......

As far as"community" goes,we are lucky enough to live where people(a majority)can,hunt,grow and are happy to share with other people that share-very few freeloaders-we could survive quite well with the tools and knowledge at our disposal--and shutting down the area to vehicle traffic would be fairly easy...Most people here have led lives where they were dependent on themselves not others-if they don't have money-they don't buy...if they're hungry-plenty of canning food in pantry-you might get bored but you're eating...


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

naturelover said:


> Community works when the whole community cooperates and everyone is dependent on each other.


No, dependence never works.

If you lose one segment that the rest are depentant on, you lose the group.

A group of independant folks can lose a portion of the group and continue to thrive.


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2012)

Kshobbit said:


> When I finished reading all the posts from both forums, all I could say was, "wow!" I started living a more natural lifestyle in 1976. It was to raise my children in a healthier enviroment and live closer to the land. I am still doing it today on the same small scale as I did years ago. TMEN warned of all the impending disasters including the nasty water we drink every day now.
> An NBA star told people after Hurricane Katrina, that we needed to be prepared to take care of ourselves as it was apparent the Federal Government was incapable of helping in a massive disaster.
> I had a neighbor tell me if anything happened she was coming to me for help! How do you handle that one? This is Kansas and if someone needs help all they have to do is ask. It does not matter where you came from or what your politics or religion or color of skin, we help each other.
> Frankly I am ashamed of a lot of you folks here on this forum. If this is an indication of who will survive, armed people ready to shoot you or the very rich with their underground hideouts and also ready to shoot you. You guys can have this planet. I don't want to live here with any of you.


As you can see from the other thread some people have the attitude they have to steal to get food. They may also have the idea they might have to harm you to do it. Most people will ask first but not all will. i would have weapon so i could stop any thing stupid from happening while you explain to them when dinner will be, if nothing else. After that and if every thing goes well, you can have them help around the place before dinner.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

> I had a neighbor tell me if anything happened she was coming to me for help! How do you handle that one? This is Kansas and if someone needs help all they have to do is ask. It does not matter where you came from or what your politics or religion or color of skin, we help each other.


Help, not take. Operational words here.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

time said:


> No, dependence never works.
> 
> If you lose one segment that the rest are depentant on, you lose the group.
> 
> A group of independant folks can lose a portion of the group and continue to thrive.


Would you care to explain what SHTF disaster it was that you have already personally experienced that brought you to this conclusion?

.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Rocktown Gal said:


> What they are telling us is this...
> 
> If you have a garden...I will steal from it
> If you have animals...I will steal them for food
> ...


And they will find a way to justify it in their own minds and feel good about it too.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Angie, some questions for you if you will satisfy my curiosity. About the situations that happened within your community after that awful tornado that destroyed so much of your town last year.

Did people within the community come together to help each other out? Did some people pool their resources with others to be helpful? Or did most people just sit around doing nothing waiting for the government to come to their assistance? Did members of the community become hostile and suspicious towards their other community members? Was there a lot of looting happening? If there was looting, did members of the community come together to help protect the community from the looters or did people ignore it and just let the looters do as they pleased?

.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

I think there will be those who will resort to stealing and killing to survive (perhaps more than I feel comfortable with).

But I think the great masses will simply migrate and quietly starve. Look at refugees in Africa. Look at the Great Depression. Maybe a lot is lost in history, but I got the feeling that people helped each other out when times got tough.

The black market will thrive. Criminals will get organized to trade luxury items (would an egg, or a quart of milk be considered luxury?). Masses will stand in breadlines, or move around and panhandle.

Good fences will help steer many away from your home.

Learning to be as one of my Irish friends phrased it "one of the Pigs in the Parlor Irish" may not be a bad idea. Bring the animals inside. Spend the night listening to the radio with a warm pig in your lap and a shotgun readily next to you.

If things got really bad here, I might pack up and sneak across the border to Mexico. In some places, it is very safe and a U.S. retiree can live like a king off their 401K. Mexican law prohibits home ownership by non-mexicans, but there are some legal loopholes that some Americanos are using to buy up property in Baja.

There are also some VERY nice homes there. I read in the Wall Street Journal that the dream of many Mexicans is to make a lot of $$ in the US and build a dreamhome in Mexico. Unfortunately, after 15 years, their US-born kids don't want to go to Mexico and there are whole towns filled with beautiful, empty homes. But that is becoming rare as the current trend is for Mexicans to go back to Mexico since good paying jobs are disappearing here.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

naturelover said:


> Would you care to explain what SHTF disaster it was that you have already personally experienced that brought you to this conclusion?
> 
> .


Combat.

The military teaches you to not only know your job, but the job of your superiors and any other. I did several jobs outside my MOS. That way, if you lose an element of your force, you don't lose the whole force. An example; first aid. Field dressings and other first aid training is required learning. I know what to do for a "sucking chest wound". It's not left to the medic to save everyone. He may be dead.

Life.

Pretty self explanatory. I don't need a community to survive. I need a community to make life easier.

A simple thought proccess.

What will I do if no one is around to do it for me? I'll do it myself.

Community is great. Dependence is foolhardy, IMO.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

After the tornado, the locals to the neighborhood first helped each other.
Then the families helped with the locals,
Then some churches came by and helped all, 
BUT, after the first day there was a registration and wrist band that was the key to getting into that area, everyone else was turned back by the police.

Also, in a house two or three down from Aunt Peg's land, there was a owner sleeping in the garage that was left, so the contents of the house that were salvagable would still be there. The intruder that tried it is 6 feet under. 
That was before the boundries were set up and the security and registration to get in was established.
There were signs of "Looters will be shot" and there was another that was not quite that in your face, but let them know guns were available for discouragement. I'll have to find that photo. Also, afterwards, signs of saying thank you to those that helped.

Since then, the effected have been helped - but a good bit of looking out for each other right in that immediate area.

I have heard many other stories of this being the case.

Also, one radio station went 24 hour call in - where help was, where FEMA was, who had a shelter to offer, who could keep animals displaced. A kennel kept one of the two dogs of Aunt Peg for free for a month, I just provided the meds the dog was on, and a annonomous support provided for the feed by donating since they could not help in physical areas. The other dog ended up with a family next named community over, and Aunt Peg was found due to the dog tags. That family loved that dog, and gave her back but let Aunt Peggy know if she ever needed to let her go, to call them.

So, it was a combination of community, and for those that attempted to help themselves, it was a grave. Through all of this, I don't think more than 2 or 3 in the greater Huntsville area where the damage was so severe that one could not live there, tried to take things.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

time said:


> Community is great. Dependence is foolhardy, IMO.


Okay. I think perhaps you have latched on to the single word "dependence" like a limpet and aren't looking beyond that one word. 

Let's change the word from dependence to dependable. Maybe that will change the concept.

In your experience with the military and in combat, were all members of the military community expected to be dependable with and for each other? Did they not all try to work as a unit? Was each person expected to be an individual island unto themself without expectations or hope of back-up from their comrades? Is that how your military works, each to their own with no hope of comrades in arms being dependable?

I think the answer to that is "No."

.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

AngieM2 said:


> ....So, it was a combination of community, and for those that attempted to help themselves, it was a grave. Through all of this, I don't think more than 2 or 3 in the greater Huntsville area where the damage was so severe that one could not live there, tried to take things.


Did those 2 or 3 really think that the situation was so dire that they had to resort to taking things to survive?

Or were they just dirtbags BEFORE the tornado?

My father lived through famine and he had to resort to eating leaves off trees to survive, just to put something in his belly. Up until he passed away, he had a great reluctance to eat a salad.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I think they were critters of opportunity, and not dire need. Things such at TV's and furniture and such are not needed. They were just looters.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Thanks for describing your experience Angie.

What you have described is the way I expect most communities would pull together to cooperate with each other after disaster has struck. I think the majority of people have goodness in their hearts and want to help each other and are willing to accept help from others when it's needed.

.


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2012)

naturelover said:


> Thanks for describing your experience Angie.
> 
> What you have described is the way I expect most communities would pull together to cooperate with each other after disaster has struck. I think the majority of people have goodness in their hearts and want to help each other and are willing to accept help from others when it's needed.
> 
> .


The difference between Angies experience and what we are talking about is the addition of perhaps many outsiders. Comunity will perhaps help protect your people, but it's not going to stop out siders who don't understand your society.
And that is what we have now, we are being infiltrated, because our goverment doesn't want to protect our country. Which is exactly oppisite of what your goverment does. It's apples and oranges really.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

I'm thinking that there is a huge difference between a local disaster and teotwawki. It is easy to help and share when people know that relief is coming and they can re-stock etc. A situation that has no ending in sight would bring out different feelings don't you think.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Rocktown Gal said:


> Pretty much everyone posting over there is going to steal what you have or kill you for it. So now is the time to prepare to save what you have from those that believe that they are entitled to it.
> 
> I'm trying to stay out of it.


I would hazard a guess that pretty much everyone who posts here will steal and kill too when/if their own or their kids life is on the line. Thats basic human nature. The instinct for self preservation is pretty strong... but the basic instinct to protect/provide for our children quite often exceeds even self preservation.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

veggiecanner said:


> The difference between Angies experience and what we are talking about is the addition of perhaps many outsiders. Comunity will perhaps help protect your people, but it's not going to stop out siders who don't understand your society.
> And that is what we have now, we are being infiltrated, because our goverment doesn't want to protect our country. Which is exactly oppisite of what your goverment does. It's apples and oranges really.


Well then I guess I don't understand what this topic is about. I thought this topic was about people who say they are willing to steal and kill to take what they want for themselves instead of helping and working cohesively with their neighbours and community so that all can survive together. I'm not understanding what you mean or what the relevance is to this topic when you say your government is not protecting your country from being infiltrated by outsiders nor who the outsiders are that are doing the infiltrating. It would seem to me that that line of thought is a different issue that has more to do with national security, not community security. I don't know what that has to do with citizens stealing from and killing their fellow citizens. :shrug:

.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Kshobbit said:


> This is Kansas and if someone needs help all they have to do is ask.


In normal circumstances I would agree with you. I tend to be helpful to those in need as well. However in a widespread shtf scenario how do you deal with hundreds of people in need for ever prepared person? Do you have enough... or can you stock up enough to feed a hundred or so people daily for months? At what point do you say "move on... I dont have anything left to give"?


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Darn!

This kind of dashes my hopes that circumstances that would end the world as we know it would bring about a new civilization of peace, sharing and love.

Now, it's beginning to sound as though it's most likely that a more familiar and proven pattern might be what happens.

There would probably be a brief episode of anarchy, during which most folks would do whatever they could to survive; followed by the rise of the most powerful warlords, battling over resources and territory (provided, of course, that the already-established military forces didn't fill that role.)

Some sort of order would be established, and I would go back to negotiating civilization pretty much as I do now.

I could try to foster the romantic dream that I might be one of those warlords, but that just sets me to giggling. 

But, feel free to dream.


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2012)

What people don't seem to understand is the preppers on here would most likely be on their own place. Not out looking for trouble. Not out trying to steal or harm others.

Other wise you wouldn't see the threads on here about bartering.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

I didn't read every post, but here's my take on all of this. I don't think anyone knows 100% what they will do if faced with various scenarios. We may think we have things all planned out, but plans have a way of changing. Those who have been in the military are very familiar with training that puts you in different situations, but even in training exercises we know it's not real life. I do know that if you plan on having a community to get through things, now is the time to start getting to know one another and figure out how you will work together. We have some neighbors that we have talked with extensively about possible scenarios. One is an ex Army Ranger. My DH is SF in the USAF and I was medical admin. Each of us has some skills and training in various situations, but none of us really knows exactly what we'll be facing, so best to be prepared for the most likely scenarios and if you're a Christian, leave the rest up to God.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

People that think- I'm going to kill to feed my family, do not belong on a Homesteading site. They are Thugs,bully's,opportunists,criminals and on... they are alive and going strong. It's the I Deserve it mentality. If you choose to ignore the truth and have your rose-colored "In a Perfect World" glasses on....I'm sorry. You need to learn a bit,a lot more about the mentality of about 50% of this country.These people do not want/wait for you to give them something out of the goodness of your heart-they will take it,they are entitled to it, don't you see. 
As for harboring these types,they will cut your throat and take what they want and move on. Until they learn/are killed they are not learning,not now and they don't want to. Somehow they thing they are so smart so tricky so skilled that they cannot imagine that others think this stuff over each day.
Besides,do we really want the "I'll Kill to feed my Family" procreate the Earth after the Struggle?
I know there are certain pats of society that want to get all warm and fuzzy but, ya know what ,there are dogs that bite, people that are sick(pedophile sick,rapesist sick...) and All your wishes for a community aren't going to happen if the Wolf is at your door.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

naturelover said:


> Okay. I think perhaps you have latched on to the single word "dependence" like a limpet and aren't looking beyond that one word.
> 
> Let's change the word from dependence to dependable. Maybe that will change the concept.
> 
> ...


No, your over-emphasis on community is the sticking point.

Dependant-dependable. 

I highly reccomend the first focus be on yourself and a few family members and/or very close friends. As few as possible.



> "If a community ran out of supplies then it won't implode, the people within the community won't turn on each other."


Yes, they will. That is the topic of this thread. People admit they will do whatever it takes.

Believe otherwise at your peril.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

One thing about the tornadoes. The severe area was a path, but on either side of it, pretty much was okay except for not having power for a week.

But, do understand, debit cards worked after day 2, there was a dark curfew, and after day one it was proved that it was enforced, people stayed home and many bbq's were done.

there are various people with generators. The hospitals went into generator mode immediately, so it was functioning. 

The difference was we had a disaster, for a small percentage of our total population. We had inconvience for most of the area, and could be dangerous for some medical fragile people, but in this case, they could go to the hospitals.

the main grocery stores opened with generators and no cold foods for a couple of days, then limited cold foods the next 3 days.

Ice was trucked in and that radio station would tell where it was in the area. No mobbing for the ice. There was enough.

So, if you take away all the imported help - it would have been much worse.

And as to food, the churches were handing out bags of sandwiches, cookies and chips with bottled water to areas where everyone was working to clean up. 

A complete national break down, without the imported help could make it more dangerous.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

I'm a bit confused by the OP.

In three pages of posts in that thread I only saw one person who said they would kill. :shrug:


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

But many seem to think they will take. And justify others taking now. Something in this forum is not appreciated.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

In all honestly, I would do what I had to do to survive. Looting from others would be a last resort, though, but eatting other people and murdering other people would be the last resorts. I never want to die. 
.
but having said that I would much rather prep, and then WORK or TRADE for what I need...I would rather work with others, and survive more honerably then gruesomely.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

I think this is really one of the big issues that can take bad situations to terrible ones. 

What would the 30s have been like if people had this mentality? 

Im a big fan of alternative foods most people do not know are foods. Lots of them out there, including pseudo grains like sand dropseed and indian ricegrass.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

NickieL said:


> .
> but having said that I would much rather prep, and then WORK or TRADE for what I need...I would rather work with others, and survive more honerably then gruesomely.



that's the whole idea


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

I re-read the entire thread and I'm still not seeing all these people who say they will come and take your preps?

One person said they would kill to save their family, not one other said anything about taking anyone's preps.

I'm not trying to be snippy, I'm just not understanding what this thread is about?


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

It's about 67 posts, now.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Tiempo - sorry you don't see what we see on that thread.

But, we do see a reason to prep so we don't have to be one of those that find a reason to want to take from others using force if necessary.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

silverseeds said:


> I think this is really one of the big issues that can take bad situations to terrible ones.
> 
> What would the 30s have been like if people had this mentality?
> 
> Im a big fan of alternative foods most people do not know are foods. Lots of them out there, including pseudo grains like sand dropseed and indian ricegrass.


I don't think there is much difference in the mentallity from the 30's. Lot's of people then did turn to crime.

There is a difference in circumstances though. In the 30's there were allot of small farms and more people were capable of living with very little. Not true anymore. The closest many people have been to nature was when they were in 
scouts(boy/girl). Most have not even had that.


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## jessimeredith (Sep 12, 2004)

Oggie said:


> It's about 67 posts, now.


*giggles*


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I don't think anybody survives completely on their own. People will survive in groups, much as they did in the Dark Ages.

And sometimes those groups will be successful in fighting off aggressors and sometimes they will succumb. It's going to be a very ugly world out there.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

A person that can survive on their own can survive in a group. The reverse is not necessarily true.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

time said:


> A person that can survive on their own can survive in a group. The reverse is not necessarily true.


If a person has to survive on their own bitter and all alone .... then what is the point of surviving? Why even bother to exist?

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I would rather go down knowing that I did my best for my community and that I was loved and appreciated for my worthfulness and efforts towards community betterment than to go down in a miserable, bitter death all alone, feared and hated by those that I made into my enemies who will say "good riddance to bad rubbish".

What goes around comes around.

.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

I didn't realize you had to register for each HT forum.:hohum:. Oh well, it will keep me out of trouble I guess.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Tiempo said:


> I re-read the entire thread and I'm still not seeing all these people who say they will come and take your preps?
> 
> One person said they would kill to save their family, not one other said anything about taking anyone's preps.
> 
> I'm not trying to be snippy, I'm just not understanding what this thread is about?



Several said they would steal to get what they need. They would need food and water. When they take yours, they have either killed you fast (bullet or knife) or left you to die slowly. I have no intention of dying so a stranger can live. I'll help if I can, but since my kids are young that means I must live so I'm not going to risk my life or give away what I need to survive. 

Local emergencies are no problem. I don't mind helping out when I know I can replenish my supplies, in a regional or national emergency, my kids come first.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

terri9630 said:


> I didn't realize you had to register for each HT forum.:hohum:. Oh well, it will keep me out of trouble I guess.


You don't have to register or be logged in to read in each forum on HT but you do have to be registered and logged in to read in the General Chat and Politics forums. They are the only 2 forums on the board that I know of where you must be logged in to read in there. You also have to be logged in to submit your own posts on any forum on HT.

.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

naturelover said:


> You don't have to register or be logged in to read in each forum on HT but you do have to be registered and logged in to read in the General Chat and Politics forums. They are the only 2 forums on the board that I know of where you must be logged in to read in there. You also have to be logged in to submit your own posts on any forum on HT.
> 
> .


I was logged in but when I tried to post it said something to the effect of 'your privileges don't include posting' or some such. I'm to tired to remember. Wish this cough syrup would kick in. I'm beat and could use some sleep.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

time said:


> I don't think there is much difference in the mentallity from the 30's. Lot's of people then did turn to crime.
> 
> There is a difference in circumstances though. In the 30's there were allot of small farms and more people were capable of living with very little. Not true anymore. The closest many people have been to nature was when they were in
> scouts(boy/girl). Most have not even had that.


I agree with part of what your saying. Many did turn to crime in those days, and probably any good times let alone rough times such as the great depression. 

The circumstances were certainly easier to cope with then as well, for reasons you mention and others...

I have to disagree about mentalities though. I believe in that era most people ultimately thought their life was in their or their families hands. Their community as well to some degree. Today i think a large portion arent exactly of that cloth. Greece highlights what im getting at well I think. 

I hope your right though... Im not even convinced my own government thinks of my possessions as my own, in event of truly rough times, let alone hungry folks who see Im not hungry.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

terri9630 said:


> I was logged in but when I tried to post it said something to the effect of 'your privileges don't include posting' or some such. I'm to tired to remember. Wish this cough syrup would kick in. I'm beat and could use some sleep.


If you are a fairly new poster, is that you must use the rest of the site for a certain period of time and post on other boards before you are admitted to GC/Politics. The time and number are not made known publicly.

See Admin forum, thread, If you cant post on GC


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## TerraFarm (Jun 4, 2012)

Pearl B said:


> If you are a fairly new poster, is that you must use the rest of the site for a certain period of time and post on other boards before you are admitted to GC/Politics. The time and number are not made known publicly.
> 
> See Admin forum, thread, If you cant post on GC


This is saving me from opening my biiig mouth too soon. 

Good rule.


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## jessimeredith (Sep 12, 2004)

silverseeds said:


> I have to disagree about mentalities though. I believe in that era most people ultimately thought their life was in their or their families hands. Their community as well to some degree. Today i think a large portion arent exactly of that cloth. Greece highlights what im getting at well I think.


This.

Higher population count now, less farming going on (where the food is not used for something other than food or being shipped elsewhere) and the population is accustomed to "just in time" services and entitlements. What do you think will happen when that larger population is forced to think/act/live without all of these things?


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

jessimeredith, this is a question we all think about. I know I do, and I live at the end of the longest supply chain in the US. I don't count Hawaii because they could grow a LOT of food there year round if needed. But here in Alaska? HA! Around 95% of the food is imported.

Ninety five percent. This is why I advocate gardening, CSAs, self sufficiency, and part of the reason I started my tiny biz. If the suppy chain is busted, it will be very ugly, very fast, I'd say within 36 hours if news of an event is able to be broadcast. Of course, we have the largest percentage of military compared to any other state, but still, they gotta eat and stay warm too.....

Russian Roulette, every single day here.


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## jessimeredith (Sep 12, 2004)

I'd like to say 48-72 depending on the event Pouncer...but I really think it would be less than even 36. MOST will keep their heads for a bit but I think with so many doing nothing but daily shopping or eating out the panic will set in sooner.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I would hazard a guess that pretty much everyone who posts here will steal and kill too when/if their own or their kids life is on the line. Thats basic human nature. The instinct for self preservation is pretty strong... but the basic instinct to protect/provide for our children quite often exceeds even self preservation.


Sure, the instinct for self-preservation is strong. But is it strong enough to risk your life for a can of beans? There is an assumption that the taking is an easy deal. I think people are prone to fight back, even against an armed aggressor. Even if you had a knife against an unarmed person, would you risk having your eye bitten out? Even a small wound can turn into a fatal infection.

I'd prefer to live off beetles and grubs, rather than risk getting shot trying to steal an egg or chicken.

But then, again there was one of those criminals hiding from the law who thought he could live off the land... Eventually was caught in town several years later raiding trash cans for food. I think he even welcomed incarceration for the medical care and guaranteed hot meals.

I suppose beetles and grubs did not appeal to him too much. Foraging is a time consuming and energy sapping activity. But if it keeps me out of someone's gunsights, it might not be bad.

Stewed mice with cattail roots and dandelion greens anyone?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

And if you prepare this "taking from others" scene is either delayed greatly, or maybe even avoided.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> And if you prepare this "taking from others" scene is either delayed greatly, or maybe even avoided.


Exactly.

Evangelizing and demonstrating viable preparation and self-reliance helps a lot too.

Desperate people act desperately. As I see it, my first priority is doing everything in my power to avoid desperation. My second priority it to do everything in my power to help others from becoming desperate. I think of it as preventive maintenance.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I am reminded of a story i heard that before the Beijing Olympics they had to teach locals how to wait in an orderly line , Chinese were not used to waiting in lines they would push and shove and mob apparently, this is also the case in many other countries where they don't wait in lines well 

it was explained at the time that , Americans wait in lines well because there is usually no shortage of anything necessary like food , that we are taught from a young age to wait in line for school lunch, McDonald's , the grocery checkout , and so on , that everyone will get served. 

In many places a shipment arrives , and the first ones to the back of the truck get fed and the shipment is gone long before everyone is served 

we needn't look any further than black Friday the day after the US thanks giving holiday , people line up at stores hours before they open the doors and wait in line to get the door buster deal, a doll , a game system, a game or such , a non essential item 
usually this is a model example in waiting in line and how well most Americans do waiting in lines. but in recent years , we have had many reports of fights , tramplings, and such some that have even resulted in death 

now this behavior while from a small portion of the population shows us the animal nature of many people , and remember these were people who trampled others so they could buy the hot new children's toy , for a season of gift giving , that is associated with the birth of the "prince of peace" 

so now that we know people will line up , and mob a store , even trample others to death in their mob behavior ,while society if under full operation , police are near by , and the courts still operating , jails available.now do you think for a second that if people knew there were no police , no court , no jail , and their children were starving that they would do hesitate to trample you to feed them.

the amount of time it will take will be how long it takes for people to realize , that the police aren't there , aren't able to make arrests , that the "system" has failed. 

we don't see this behavior in local disasters for a number of reasons , things like tornadoes , are very local often just a few square miles , food , water and police are made very available , so only those who already have no respect loot for items that are not needs but pleasures. we see that this behavior is greatly reduced when they realize the price of getting caught is to high and that their chance of getting caught is to high. 

but if the system really is down , and the price of not stealing is a slow painful death , and the price for getting caught is a fast sudden death, even getting caught may not sound so bad

some where between , wanting something and seeing an easy opportunity to take it , and starvation . most people with decide to steal , the ones that wouldn't steal till starving and no other choice is left for them , aren't the ones to worry about , the ones who steal as soon as the opportunity presents it's self , or it appears they wont be caught they are more likely to go violent , and to have the attitude and skill to take.

what is the chance of a wide spread disaster that breaks the "system" to the point that normal honest people are ready to steal and go against the years of ingrained training.

It seems unlikely that a single natural event is likely cause such a wide spread problem 
most natural events as in other than a country waging war on us would need some catalyst or rapid succession of natural disasters to bring things down to that point. 
the inability for outside help to come ,


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

terri9630 said:


> I was logged in but when I tried to post it said something to the effect of 'your privileges don't include posting' or some such. I'm to tired to remember. Wish this cough syrup would kick in. I'm beat and could use some sleep.


same thing happened to me, for the first week or so.
They probably need to find out if your a trouble maker before you can post. Good idea really.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

hungry people do stupid things


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

veggiecanner said:


> hungry people do stupid things


another good comment showing why this is a practical forum.
Help to not get in that situation where the stupid things are deemed necessary.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

Tiempo said:


> I re-read the entire thread and I'm still not seeing all these people who say they will come and take your preps?
> 
> One person said they would kill to save their family, not one other said anything about taking anyone's preps.
> 
> I'm not trying to be snippy, I'm just not understanding what this thread is about?


People are already stealing because the economy is bad. How do you think they will act of some thing worse happens?


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

veggiecanner said:


> hungry people do stupid things





AngieM2 said:


> another good comment showing why this is a practical forum.
> Help to not get in that situation where the stupid things are deemed necessary.


 Excellent advice.

We are all part of our local communities whether we like anyone else in them or not.

If things get to the extremes that this thread is concerned with we will all end up having to deal with them _one way or the other._

In the final analysis it may well come down to your ability to keep what you've got. 

How many are you and how many are they?

Better, much, much better to head that problem off at the pass if at all possible.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

naturelover said:


> If a person has to survive on their own bitter and all alone .... then what is the point of surviving? Why even bother to exist?
> 
> Different strokes for different folks I guess. I would rather go down knowing that I did my best for my community and that I was loved and appreciated for my worthfulness and efforts towards community betterment than to go down in a miserable, bitter death all alone, feared and hated by those that I made into my enemies who will say "good riddance to bad rubbish".
> 
> ...


Heh.

I don't think I said anything about being a hermit or Isolationist or making enemies. That's quite a leap. It's strange you would miss the second half of my comment.

A person that can survive on their own *can survive in a group*.

The attitude of reliance on a community for survival is what non preppers are counting on. We'll see how it works out for them someday.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

What are those of you who believe you have prepped do when what ever act of destruction that happens wipes out your supplies? Say it is the middle of winter and your house is raised to the ground. Are you going to look for help? Are you going to hope that others work together with you to survive?

Are you going to be like the survivors in the movie "Alive" or the miners last year? Are you going to work together or is it every man for themselves?



What will you do when all your prepping was for nothing?


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

Time has a really good point. 

Angie, shortage of food and other critical resources has been a primary driver for political and social unrest throughout written history, and well before if you adhere to archaeological interpretations. If something nation, continent or worldwide happens, it will be a factor here. Look at what happened in Katrina. There was a segment of the population that just sat and waited for rescue. There was a set of the population that preyed on everyone (note this also included some cops) and there was a segment of the population that left. Some of those had finite destinations and some were just going. If the problem was regional, we could assume that many of those that left got one tank or less awy from the area. 
Now, the prepared individual or household could likely deal with many of those first people out. But by the time you get to those predators that will likely form likeminded groups, they won't be asking for food. They will be trying ot take what they want and need by force. This is where community comes in. Then it becomes us against them and numbers matter. But Time is right in that those people that didn't prep are going to be depending on the extended family and neighbors to support them. In subsistance agriculture (the social name for homesteading) the production, especially without fuel, fertilizer and machinery is not going to sustain a household much beyond itself. I have read several accounts of extended families and neighbors stating they were coming to a preppers for food and necessities in the event of an emergency, or that they would just take (steal) from the prepper. I guess what I am saying to sum it up, is you better be sure who is in your community and htat you can depend on them and share the same committments and beliefs, otherwise, you may find out that your loosing your resources to another community member. The other point I want to make about single family farm/homesteading/subsistance farming is that in the last depression, 80% of the population was on the farmand 20% was in the city. Now the population is exactly reversed, wiht 80% in the city and only 20% on the farm ( not really on the farm, just rural and there is a difference). Even on this forum, the majority of the people live in cities/towns/suburbs. You can store food for a year or more, but eventually, if the system does break down like many here talk about, 3 or 4 chickens and a 10x10 plot will not feed a family. What will they do?


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

Can I ask why every one wants to make preppers out to be the bad guys?

Would a community do any thing different than a single person if some one came to take their stuff. just because your in a community you all of a sudden would just hand over your food to a thug with a gun?

I would assume, that solders are taught both how to work together and how to survive on their own. In case they are seperated from their group.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Preppers have a "bad" name in areas that are full of those that don't think responsibility for themself, belongs on their shoulders. Many are afraid of our independency thoughts, and the entitlement crowd seems to think what "fair" is, is that all benefit from the work of a few. 

So, bad is not sharing to those that won't (not can't, but won't) work for their upkeep.
Bad is having more cause you didn't sit on your butt and whine that government was not there soon enough to take care of you.
Bad is the one that gets on with life, rather than waiting to see who is going to help.

Communities are good, but communities are good when made up of responsible for themself individuals; Communities are bad, when made up all supposedly being entitle to equal - even if they can, but do not put the effort in to make the stuff/food that benefits the community.

The good or bad, is entirely up to the work and outlook of each individual.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

painterswife said:


> What are those of you who believe you have prepped do when what ever act of destruction that happens wipes out your supplies? Say it is the middle of winter and your house is raised to the ground. Are you going to look for help? Are you going to hope that others work together with you to survive?
> 
> Are you going to be like the survivors in the movie "Alive" or the miners last year? Are you going to work together or is it every man for themselves?
> 
> ...


Survive.


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## TxAprilMagic (Nov 8, 2007)

veggiecanner said:


> I prep because i want to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. But i see now, even prepping can bring problems. So now what do you do?
> 
> *But i also prep because our goverment has done a poor job of taking care of our general welfare.*





*It is not our government's business nor their job to take care of our general welfare. (nor should it be allowed for our government to take what we have for their general welfare) We will be much better off in our mind set when people come to terms that it is your responsibility for yourself and yours and only yours. If neighbors, family, friends choose to help each other than that is their business and not the government. Taking from others because you don't have or you think you deserve it may hold a higher price than you might have bargained for. It would have been cheaper and less painful to just prepare in the first place. *


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

veggiecanner said:


> Can I ask why every one wants to make preppers out to be the bad guys?
> 
> Would a community do any thing different than a single person if some one came to take their stuff. just because your in a community you all of a sudden would just hand over your food to a thug with a gun?
> 
> I would assume, that solders are taught both how to work together and how to survive on their own. In case they are seperated from their group.


Preppers do not have a bad name. People that believe that that they have all the answers and that they can prep for EVERY eventuality are a different story. This "in the bunker" mentality of we will keep ours at all costs is not what others of us that are prepared ( and I don't mean prepped) don't believe in. Our lives would not be as rich and as wonderful now if people did not work together to get to a better place.

I think of the soldiers that are out defending this country, or the young people with no families to fall back on that are struggling to make ends meet, neither have money to prep or even a place to keep them if they could, no land to grow a garden. The way some preppers talk is they will survive and those people won't because they don't deserve to be part of a community working together.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

painterswife said:


> Preppers do not have a bad name. People that believe that that they have all the answers and that they can prep for EVERY eventuality are a different story. This "in the bunker" mentality of we will keep ours at all costs is not what others of us that are prepared ( and I don't mean prepped) don't believe in. Our lives would not be as rich and as wonderful now if people did not work together to get to a better place.
> 
> I think of the soldiers that are out defending this country, or the young people with no families to fall back on that are struggling to make ends meet, neither have money to prep or even a place to keep them if they could, no land to grow a garden. The way some preppers talk is they will survive and those people won't because they don't deserve to be part of a community working together.


I am struggling to make ends meet and i still prep. 
What you are asking is for others to prep for others, while at the same time telling us how hard things are right now. 
Like i said before no one on here is going out looking for trouble, and those on here are only talking about they would do if they are attacted. Would you want them to just roll over and die?
Alot of the people who are not prepping are buying junk, you want me to prep for them?
How about you all start your style of community and we will start ours, their is no cut and dryed rules on that, is there?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

veggiecanner said:


> I am struggling to make ends meet and i still prep.
> What you are asking is for others to prep for others, while at the same time telling us how hard things are right now.
> Like i said before no one on here is going out looking for trouble, and those on here are only talking about they would do if they are attacted. Would you want them to just roll over and die?
> Alot of the people who are not prepping are buying junk, you want me to prep for them?
> How about you all start your style of community and we will start ours, their is no cut and dryed rules on that, is there?


No I am not asking you to prep for others or to not defend yourself. I am asking you not to just assume that anyone that does not prep to your level is a write off in hard times or that you will not be one of those who's preps are totally wiped out.

Just because right now you have prepped and can last for X weeks does not mean that you won't need to last for 10 times x weeks. So many things are unpredictable and you can not prep for every situation. Some day you may need a hand up and one of those people that you wrote off as not prepared at the time is the one to rescue you.


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## jessimeredith (Sep 12, 2004)

Much like veggiecanner here.

We're struggling to make ends meet and we're military for a bit still. Until September, we will not have our own place (even then it will still be bank owned until the mortgage is paid off 15 years from now). We're fairly young and our families are way more than a days walk away. We still manage to prep here and there.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Preppers do not have a bad name. People that believe that that they have all the answers and that they can prep for EVERY eventuality are a different story. This "in the bunker" mentality of we will keep ours at all costs is not what others of us that are prepared ( and I don't mean prepped) don't believe in. Our lives would not be as rich and as wonderful now if people did not work together to get to a better place.
> 
> I think of the soldiers that are out defending this country, or the young people with no families to fall back on that are struggling to make ends meet, neither have money to prep or even a place to keep them if they could, no land to grow a garden. The way some preppers talk is they will survive and those people won't because they don't deserve to be part of a community working together.


It's not a matter of "deserve".

You can't save everyone. People are sufferring in the world *today.* Community working together for the "as rich and as wonderful " life isn't working now to meet your standards.

Your thinking of Utopia.

I prefer to think in terms of survival.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

The way it looks to me , people are already after other peoples stuff.
So it's not an imaginary situation.
part of the reason i could be in a situation like your describing is because some armed thugs could come to steal my stuff. But you want me just to give it to them. So is every one supposed to just give it to them? How would we help each other if that happened?
If other people don't prep how would they help me if I got into a jam? They cann't even help them selves.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

and some people come to tell us why we are bad, and why others cannot prepare on some level.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

veggiecanner said:


> If other people don't prep how would they help me if I got into a jam? *They cann't even help them selves*.


There it is, in a nutshell.

If you can't help yourself, you can't help others.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

We cann't save them now, while there is supplies.
How can we save them later?
Buy a can soup for later. How hard can that be? Soup not soda. Don't understand that, hey what ever.
Sorry, I get a little weird about this.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

even learning from books and internet is some type of preparing.
And that can be a large factor in how to get through a difficult time, or total break down of society as we know it.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

time said:


> It's not a matter of "deserve".
> 
> You can't save everyone. People are sufferring in the world *today.* Community working together for the "as rich and as wonderful " life isn't working now to meet your standards.
> 
> ...


That is exactly the difference between you and I. I see no point in surviving if I have to push others into their graves to get there. I will go happy to my grave knowing that those who worked with me shared in all we had. I know that I could survive on my own where I live with what I have for a long while but the reason I have what I have at this point in my life is because others gave of their time or money with no regards to payback so I could get to where I am.

Yes there will be some with out there who want with out giving but my friends and my community all ready know who they are and they will easily weed out those who would take and not contribute.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

painterswife said:


> That is exactly the difference between you and I. I see no point in surviving if I have to push others into their graves to get there. I will go happy to my grave knowing that those who worked with me shared in all we had. I know that I could survive on my own where I live with what I have for a long while but the reason I have what I have at this point in my life is because others gave of their time or money with no regards to payback so I could get to where I am.
> 
> Yes there will be some with out there who want with out giving but my friends and my community all ready know who they are and they will easily weed out those who would take and not contribute.


Good to know you are prepped, and live in a prepped community that will take the types of actions we are talking of to make sure what you and they have worked for are not taken by those that think they should have them without putting in your work, or the communities work.

Just proved the point of this thread. You are ready and a good portion of your community must be ready, even to defend it.

Very good.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

painterswife said:


> That is exactly the difference between you and I. I see no point in surviving if I have to push others into their graves to get there. I will go happy to my grave knowing that those who worked with me shared in all we had. I know that I could survive on my own where I live with what I have for a long while but the reason I have what I have at this point in my life is because others gave of their time or money with no regards to payback so I could get to where I am.
> 
> Yes there will be some with out there who want with out giving but my friends and my community all ready know who they are and they will easily weed out those who would take and not contribute.


t's Ok for you and your community to weed out the non proforming members but not other communities?
What you don't get is there are people like that out there that will want to tke your stuff. And your not going to be ammune from their actions, if your in a community or not.
That is where this thread started, not where you took it. Which is calling preppers stingy.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

naturelover said:


> If a person has to survive on their own bitter and all alone .... then what is the point of surviving? Why even bother to exist?
> 
> Different strokes for different folks I guess. I would rather go down knowing that I did my best for my community and that I was loved and appreciated for my worthfulness and efforts towards community betterment than to go down in a miserable, bitter death all alone, feared and hated by those that I made into my enemies who will say "good riddance to bad rubbish".
> 
> ...


If someone asks for help, I always try to help, sometimes I'll offer help without being asked.
That being said, if you try to steal from me, you won't like me very much.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> Good to know you are prepped, and live in a prepped community that will take the types of actions we are talking of to make sure what you and they have worked for are not taken by those that think they should have them without putting in your work, or the communities work.
> 
> Just proved the point of this thread. You are ready and a good portion of your community must be ready, even to defend it.
> 
> Very good.


Actually if you think I just proved the point of this thread than you don't get it. Preparing means nothing to me or my community if it means that we stand by and watch as others suffer. We know that no matter how we have prepared it could be gone in a second and it may be us who has to move on the the next community and hope that they will embrace us.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

veggiecanner said:


> t's Ok for you and your community to weed out the non proforming members but not other communities?
> What you don't get is there are people like that out there that will want to tke your stuff. And your not going to be ammune from their actions, if your in a community or not.
> That is where this thread started, not where you took it. Which is calling preppers stingy.


No this thread started because someone said that if they could not provide for their family where they lived they would illegally move to where they could and someone else thought that meant they would automatically steal what they needed.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

the obviously a Survival and emergency Prep forum is not of any use, except for poking a the membership that is in a focused group. 
you can believe your way, and this forum will continue as it is, regardless of your approval.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

painterswife said:


> Actually if you think I just proved the point of this thread than you don't get it. Preparing means nothing to me or my community if it means that we stand by and watch as others suffer. We know that no matter what how we have prepared it could be gone in a second and it may be us who has to move on the the next community and hope that they will embrace us.


As far as i am concerned the people who come at me with a gun to kill me for my supplies made their choice. Not me.
They would be happy making me suffer.
So if you cann't protect your supplies you expect the next community to. Why, is their economy doing better than the rest of the countrys?
Why bother taking people in if you are going to let some one take the supplies?
So your not prepared to survive much past your own supplies either.

Heres another thought. Most towns are not set up to double their populations over night like that.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> the obviously a Survival and emergency Prep forum is not of any use, except for poking a the membership that is in a focused group.
> you can believe your way, and this forum will continue as it is, regardless of your approval.


I am assuming this was in response to my posts.

I have never said that survival and emergency forum is not of any use. I have never disapproved of it. I however will never understand this bunker mentality. I respond to those posts because I want others who feel as I do to also be part of the conversation on how anyone can be prepared in small ways.

Some people out their feel very defeated when they think that there is no point in doing even the little they can afford because those other better prepped bunkered individuals will just cast them aside because they could only last a month on what they had put by or that those preps got destroyed. A lot of people do not contribute to this forum on a regular basis because of those attitudes.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

veggiecanner said:


> As far as i am concerned the people who come at me with a gun to kill me for my supplies made their choice. Not me.
> They would be happy making me suffer.
> So if you cann't protect your supplies you expect the next community to. Why, is their economy doing better than the rest of the countrys?
> Why bother taking people in if you are going to let some one take the supplies?
> ...


When you can protect your supplies from all eventualities then ask that question again.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

"A lot of people do not contribute to this forum on a regular basis because of those attitudes. "

Good to know you know why people do not post here.

And selective reading. You will noticed almost everyone is saying those that work and try are not the ones we discuss, it's the grasshoppers that think just cause the exist they are entitled to others works and such.



> Some people out their feel very defeated when they think that there is no point in doing even the little they can afford because those other better prepped bunkered individuals will just cast them aside because they could only last a month on what they had put by or that those preps got destroyed.s to


Almost everyone here has said in some way or another, if they work and try, or even ask for help - they are not the enemy ----- the takers and entitled ones are the "zombies" we discuss.

And you have proven by your posts of what your community does, to be of the same mentality. Just cause you don't want to acknowlege it, and call us down for being open about, no problem.



> Yes there will be some with out there who want with out giving but my friends and my community all ready know who they are and *they will easily weed out those who would take and not contribute.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> But don't be putting us down for taking care of ourself and making sure we are not part of the problem. But might be in a place to be part of the solution.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

painterswife said:


> I am assuming this was in response to my posts.
> 
> I have never said that survival and emergency forum is not of any use. I have never disapproved of it. I however will never understand this bunker mentality. I respond to those posts because I want others who feel as I do to also be part of the conversation on how anyone can be prepared in small ways.
> 
> Some people out their feel very defeated when they think that there is no point in doing even the little they can afford because those other better prepped bunkered individuals will just cast them aside because they could only last a month on what they had put by or that those preps got destroyed. A lot of people do not contribute to this forum on a regular basis because of those attitudes.


yes, but you are *telling* other people we have to prep for them.
We cann't. You have to recognize that. it doesn't make us bad people. Instead of giving up they have to try harder. We are not your saviours.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

BillHoo said:


> Sure, the instinct for self-preservation is strong. But is it strong enough to risk your life for a can of beans? There is an assumption that the taking is an easy deal. I think people are prone to fight back, even against an armed aggressor. Even if you had a knife against an unarmed person, would you risk having your eye bitten out? Even a small wound can turn into a fatal infection.


I guess it all depends upon whose can of beans it is. Would you not attempt to defend your beans from a starving band of less fortunates? Or would you gladly hand over your stores.... knowing that your own family will surely starve if you do? My point was that I think nearly all of us will do whatever it takes to feed our children when the nitty hits the gritty. Prepping is a good thing... I do it myself... but I do not underestimate peoples capacity for ugliness when the chips are down.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

veggiecanner said:


> yes, but you are *telling* other people we have to prep for them.
> We cann't. You have to recognize that. it doesn't make us bad people. Instead of giving up they have to try harder. We are not your saviours.


No I am not. I am saying that I can not understand your idea that you will prep for yourself and throw everyone else to the wolves.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> Almost everyone here has said in some way or another, if they work and try, or even ask for help - they are not the enemy ----- the takers and entitled ones are the "zombies" we discuss.
> 
> 
> 
> But don't be putting us down for taking care of ourself and making sure we are not part of the problem. But might be in a place to be part of the solution.


If I thought that was what was being said I would never have joined the conversation. I would have had no reason to.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

then I'm reading you wrong.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

I give up. if you don't want to hear the cold hard truth or want to twist our words into some thing you want to make us into. i cann't explain it any clearer. i won't be shamed into helping people who choose not to help them selves. and i won't stand by and let some one take what i have worked for.

i used to help alot, but peoples attitudes have changed to much. They expect help rather than being grateful for it. And i cann't and won't deal with people like that.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

veggiecanner said:


> I give up. if you don't want to hear the cold hard truth or want to twist our words into some thing you want to make us into. i cann't explain it any clearer. i won't be shamed into helping people who choose not to help them selves. and i won't stand by and let some one take what i have worked for.
> 
> i used to help alot, but peoples attitudes have changed to much. They expect help rather than being grateful for it. And i cann't and won't deal with people like that.


Your version of the cold hard truth? I hear it but, don't accept it. I don't tar everyone with the same brush. There are for more out there that are worth the helping hand then those that are not. Yes I do believe that there are some that will not be worth helping but you will never know until you meet and interact with them.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

But you are assuming we are all rich. 
Aren't you? What makes you think that?
You say you can't even prep for your own family, what makes you think i can prep for you?
Explain to me why I should. What have you given up to prep for my family?
Aren't i allowed to have a few things?:runforhills:

Figure out awy so your preps don't get destroyed.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

painterswife said:


> *That is exactly the difference between you and I. I see no point in surviving if I have to push others into their graves to get there*. I will go happy to my grave knowing that those who worked with me shared in all we had. I know that I could survive on my own where I live with what I have for a long while but the reason I have what I have at this point in my life is because others gave of their time or money with no regards to payback so I could get to where I am.
> 
> *Yes there will be some with out there who want with out giving but my friends and my community all ready know who they are and they will easily weed out those who would take and not contribute*.


After reading your last sentance, there is no difference between you and I with the exception that I don't hold myself up on a pedestal.

Is not "weeding out" the same as "pushing others into their graves" in the context you use?

ETA: I don't find it a coincedence you use the words "pushing others into their graves" when addressing folks like me but use "weeding out" to describe your own actions. Sorry hon, on the inside your as cold as I am despite your outward appearance.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

painterswife said:


> No I am not. I am saying that I can not understand your idea that you will prep for yourself and throw everyone else to the wolves.


How exactly does one do this? If things truly fall apart, even those of us who garden well will be squeaking by in most cases... How exactly do we ensure all those others have a meal? 

Many Ive seen with your stance seem to think if we all hold hands TOGETHER it will be okay. It just is not and was never true. 

So what do we do? You talking sharing knowledge and seeds? or doing things that literally put our family and loved ones in danger???


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

time said:


> Is not "weeding out" the same as "pushing others into their graves" in the context you use?


No, it's not. It's the same as I had mentioned earlier, that those who steal and don't contribute within the community would be cast out of the community. Casting out is not the same as pushing someone into their grave. Casting out is more merciful than execution and doesn't guarantee the deaths of those cast out since they still have been given a chance to survive on their own.

.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

time said:


> After reading your last sentance, there is no difference between you and I with the exception that I don't hold myself up on a pedestal.
> 
> Is not "weeding out" the same as "pushing others into their graves" in the context you use?


There is a difference between pushing into the grave and weeding out. I would give everyone the chance to be part of the group and share equally work and the supplies. That is weeding out. Those that just wanted( yes there are usually a few) would be given the option of helping or moving on. Pushing into the grave, is never being given the option.


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## TxAprilMagic (Nov 8, 2007)

*We should all be preparing the outside of our homes (or where ever we plan on hunkering down at) and not just the inside with supplies.  The key is to stop them before they get close enough to do any harm.

This is praying everyone here is safe . May the LORD watch over you and yours in these horrific and uncertain times we are going through and bring peace to your hearts. May we all come out of this alive. A little yoga/meditation wouldn't hurt most of us.

P.S. In bold print so I can see it better, not screaming. Although , it gives me thought to get an extra pair of glasses at my next eye appt. visit or an extra year supply of contacts. On my list as of now.*


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

naturelover said:


> No, it's not. It's the same as I had mentioned earlier, that those who steal and don't contribute within the community would be cast out of the community. Casting out is not the same as pushing someone into their grave. Casting out is more merciful than execution and doesn't guarantee the deaths of those cast out since they still have been given a chance to survive on their own.
> 
> .


What are you going to do is the person you weeded out won't leave? let's say they come back at night to get the supplies they know you have.

i guess you could start a jail for them, but what good would it do?
Then you end up with a non-contributer any way.
Execution is not an option, self defence is.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

naturelover said:


> No, it's not. It's the same as I had mentioned earlier, that those who steal and don't contribute within the community would be cast out of the community. Casting out is not the same as pushing someone into their grave. Casting out is more merciful than execution and doesn't guarantee the deaths of those cast out since they still have been given a chance to survive on their own.
> 
> .


Show me where I said anything about executing anyone. You keep trying to attribute actions to me that do not exist.

How is my not helping those that can't help themselves an execution?

How is my ensuring my survival without the help of others an execution?

If you twist my words any harder, you'll have lemon juice.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

veggiecanner said:


> *What are you going to do is the person you weeded out won't leave? let's say they come back at night to get the supplies they know you have.*
> 
> i guess you could start a jail for them, but what good would it do?
> Then you end up with a non-contributer any way.
> Execution is not an option, self defence is.


Casting out of undesireables is a tried and true method that has been practised by all societies in all lands throughout history. Cast outs don't have the option of not leaving.

.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

painterswife said:


> There is a difference between pushing into the grave and weeding out. I would give everyone the chance to be part of the group and share equally work and the supplies. That is weeding out. Those that just wanted( yes there are usually a few) would be given the option of helping or moving on. Pushing into the grave, is never being given the option.


Bull.

You get to choose to help someone or not based on their actions. I also get that same choice.

Somehow, we are supposed to believe you would make the better choice when "weeding" and my choice is "sending them to their grave".

Sorry, putting nice pretty pink paint on it doesn't make you better.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

naturelover said:


> Casting out of undesireables is a tried and true method that has been practised by all societies in all lands throughout history. Cast outs don't have the option of not leaving.
> 
> .


So we are saying the same thing.
It is absolutely the same thing.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

naturelover said:


> Casting out of undesireables is a tried and true method that has been practised by all societies in all lands throughout history. Cast outs don't have the option of not leaving.
> 
> .


What happens if they choose not to go and draw a weapon and decide YOU are the one to leave? Or if they flat decide not to go? Assuming you are indicating that they should leave your group and become a lone wolf, or part of a lone wolf pack that knows where the survival stuff is.

Oh, I see all kinds of future problems with this, and if not for your group - at least the next one down down the road.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

time said:


> Bull.
> 
> You get to choose to help someone or not based on their actions. I also get that same choice.
> 
> ...


Actually, I don't think "I" will make the choice, the person themselves will. I will have given them a choice. I won't bunker down and not interact at all.

I don't have a clue what you will do. I have only spoken to what I will do.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

For awhile you may have to bunker down. Who you bunker down with will be your choice. But i would be prepared to bunker down with just your imediate family or as much of it as you can collect together, till later.
Or even by your self.
You seem to think we can control situations and other people. When it may be impossible. That's why it is called a SHTF event.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Actually, I don't think "I" will make the choice, the person themselves will. I will have given them a choice. I won't bunker down and not interact at all.
> 
> I don't have a clue what you will do. I have only spoken to what I will do.


Wich is it?



painterswife said:


> Yes there will be some with out there who want with out giving but my friends and my community all ready know who they are and they will easily weed out those who would take and not contribute.


I've never given a weed the choice to remove itself from my garden. I suspect if I do, it'll still be there the next time I come by, whether I want it there or not.

Good luck with that.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

time said:


> Wich is it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't equate people with weeds. People have the ability to change and surprise you. That would be a big difference between you and I.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

AngieM2 said:


> What happens if they choose not to go and draw a weapon and decide YOU are the one to leave? Or if they flat decide not to go? Assuming you are indicating that they should leave your group and become a lone wolf, or part of a lone wolf pack that knows where the survival stuff is.
> 
> Oh, I see all kinds of future problems with this, and if not for your group - at least the next one down down the road.


When you have a community and the community's consensus is to cast out a troublemaker, the troublemaker does NOT have the option of choosing not to go. The cast out is driven out of the community and out of the territory upon threat of death if they attempt to return. 

A cohesive community guards and protects its resources from would be thieves, including those thieves who have been cast out knowing where the resources are. The larger a community is then the more people you have working together within the community and the more people you have to protect the resources.

This is the way it has been throughout history. In the more distant past there were only 2 ways of dealing with troublemakers. They could either be cast out or they could be killed. 

.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

naturelover said:


> When you have a community and the community's consensus is to cast out a troublemaker, the troublemaker does NOT have the option of choosing not to go. *The cast out is driven out of the community and out of the territory upon threat of death if they attempt to return. *
> A cohesive community guards and protects its resources from would be thieves, including those thieves who have been cast out knowing where the resources are. The larger a community is then the more people you have working together within the community and the more people you have to protect the resources.
> 
> This is the way it has been throughout history. In the more distant past there were only 2 ways of dealing with troublemakers. *They could either be cast out or they could be killed. *
> .


pretty much what has been said here. Just in a more direct way. 

I'm glad you agree.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

painterswife said:


> I don't equate people with weeds. People have the ability to change and surprise you. That would be a big difference between you and I.


I really fail to see how you think you said anything different considering you also acknowledged the need to cast out certain folks...

I also fail to see how you think it could be any different???? You havent given us the magical source of extra provisions you have? If you have no such magical stores, then it sounds like your in the same boat as all of us, your just wording it differently. 

We can only help those who will help themselves in such times. For the most part. Sometimes we cant do that if e can barely help ourselves...

So how does one do this? You have enough to feed x people, and in my city there could easily be 1000plusX people to feed... So what do I do? I never learned how jesus multiplied the fishes... Besides knowledge or seeds for a few there is nothing I could give without killing myself and or kids.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

I think perhaps there are two trains of thought going on here though.

There are those who do not want to be part of a larger community and would rather take their chances of going it alone or with perhaps just their immediate family members and maybe a few friends - a small group perhaps with only one leader who calls all the shots. A dictatorship for want of a better word.

Then there are those that would prefer to be members of a larger and more organized community where there is more safety in numbers and all people pool all their resources and the resources are organized, managed and protected by a council of trusted managers and leaders. Everyone shares equally. A democracy, again for want of a better word.

.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

naturelover said:


> I think perhaps there are two trains of thought going on here though.
> 
> There are those who do not want to be part of a larger community and would rather take their chances of going it alone or with perhaps just their immediate family members and maybe a few friends - a small group perhaps with only one leader who calls all the shots. A dictatorship for want of a better word.
> 
> ...


That's not what this thread was about at all. It was about the threat from outsiders and how people on here would deal with it. Turns out every one would deal with it the same, individuals and communities both.


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## TerraFarm (Jun 4, 2012)

painterswife said:


> No I am not. I am saying that I can not understand your idea that you will prep for yourself and throw everyone else to the wolves.


I may be speaking far too plainly, but what YOU are saying is that you would give your child's meal to a stranger if you felt that stranger was hungrier than your child. Even if it's the last bowl of soup you have in the pantry.

Everyone can save a can here, a bag there. if those who can, choose not to, how is it MY responsibility to feed them, instead of making sure my children and I have enough for as long as possible? I'll answer for you-it's NOT my responsibility. Right now, money is tight. It's always tight. I give what I can, and I know that I will somehow be able to feed my family, because my husband and I work our tails off. Now, if those jobs were gone, the stores were gone, everything is gone, well, sorry, my kids come before EVERYONE ELSE ON THE PLANET. I'm not giving away one legume that could help them stay alive.


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## TerraFarm (Jun 4, 2012)

I understand what AngieM2 is saying-those illegal aliens ARE stealing from us. How many people do you know that are out of work? Well, I can tell you who IS employed. Off the books, so that's taxes that we're paying that they don't.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Well, I understand what Naturelover is saying and agree. I'm a big time prepper but have been criticized many times here for my refusal to let it be me or them.

I believe you most certainly can prep for others to a certain extent. Goodness $100 would feed armies for months if you invested that in broth and veggies for soup (if you are able). Not saying we can feed everyone. Not saying we won't run out and be unable to no longer feed the starving. Just saying, that another person's starving children is of no less value than my own children are. All babies have value! 

We don't have to turn into barbarics, we can remain calm, helpful, and do whatever we can. When we run out, we run out. But I won't sacrifice another's little child for my own like we're better and 'deserve' to live because we just happened to see the light quicker than the others.

This thing about it's their own faults just doesn't fly with me. Preppers have been able to see the vision of the future. Not everyone can. We have been given a gift, not a point of greed. It isn't non-preppers their fault, isn't due to their laziness, and isn't due to expecting to be taken care of. They just simply can't see it coming. It's no different that someone who saves a million dollars while someone else lives in debt. They just don't 'get it', or haven't been as blessed to have things go so well in life that they did 'get it', or even been taught how to 'get it'. It's called real life.

Now I'm not talking about down-right nasty bandits and thieves. I'm talking about folks who didn't catch the same vision ahead of time, or went through their preps, didn't have time to prep before it all happened and are just trying to get some place safe. I'd shoot a bandit on site now who tried to hurt my child, but I would gladly help someone who was less fortunate and politely knocked on the door asking if I could help them. 

I don't know why in a SHTF situation that has to change. I don't understand at all why we can't remain civil, still give another the benefit of the doubt or realize a child that is starving isn't at fault because their parents didn't understand what could happen. If I'm wrong and my own family dies out of compassion, it sure is better than dying from the lack of love toward others or believing our family is more important than any other person on earth.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

veggiecanner said:


> That's not what this thread was about at all. It was about the threat from outsiders and how people on here would deal with it. *Turns out every one would deal with it the same, individuals and communities both.*


Really? I must have missed it. So in a nutshell, how would everyone deal with it in the same way? What was the ultimate and unanimous solution?

.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

TerraFarm said:


> I may be speaking far too plainly, but what YOU are saying is that you would give your child's meal to a stranger if you felt that stranger was hungrier than your child. Even if it's the last bowl of soup you have in the pantry.
> 
> Everyone can save a can here, a bag there. if those who can, choose not to, how is it MY responsibility to feed them, instead of making sure my children and I have enough for as long as possible? I'll answer for you-it's NOT my responsibility. Right now, money is tight. It's always tight. I give what I can, and I know that I will somehow be able to feed my family, because my husband and I work our tails off. Now, if those jobs were gone, the stores were gone, everything is gone, well, sorry, my kids come before EVERYONE ELSE ON THE PLANET. I'm not giving away one legume that could help them stay alive.


No I am saying I would give my meal to the strangers child before I would eat it myself.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

naturelover said:


> Really? I must have missed it. So in a nutshell, how would everyone deal with it in the same way? What was the ultimate and unanimous solution?
> 
> .


They would pick and choose the members of their group and defend their supplies from intruders. If it's clear the intruders don't move on they would be delt with as per necessary. Not sure why any one would think any different.


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## TerraFarm (Jun 4, 2012)

painterswife said:


> No I am saying I would give my meal to the strangers child before I would eat it myself.


Do you have a child that relies on you to survive? Same thing.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

TerraFarm said:


> Do you have a child that relies on you to survive? Same thing.


You have lost me.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

oh good grief.

The truth is, none of y'all will know exactly how you will react if and when the time comes that a disater so grand strikes. Untill it actually happens, this is about good as shouting at the wind is. 

If you go into a disaster with a "set" way of thinking, and things don't go your way, what then? Even the best stocked house might be lost in the disaster. What will you do then?

You must be FLEXIBLE. You must train your mind to react to diffrent situations that could happen and try to realize that no matter if you think you are truely ready, you really arn't. The most important thing I think that will get anyone through a disaster is the ability to be clever and to think on your feet.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

Do you think people who won't prep now will do very well on the weed and rat soup you will offer them? I guess if you don't tell them what it is they won't care.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

NickieL said:


> oh good grief.
> 
> The truth is, none of y'all will know exactly how you will react if and when the time comes that a disater so grand strikes. Untill it actually happens, this is about good as shouting at the wind is.
> 
> ...


That includes not thinking some one else can take care of you.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

veggiecanner said:


> Do you think people who won't prep now will do very well on the weed and rat soup you will offer them? I guess if you don't tell them what it is they won't care.


You would refuse it if you are starving? Yes I can see you are prepared for anything.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

NickieL said:


> oh good grief.
> 
> The truth is, none of y'all will know exactly how you will react if and when the time comes that a disater so grand strikes. Untill it actually happens, this is about good as shouting at the wind is.
> 
> ...


You didn't read the thread did you? How much help will I get from a thug with a gun?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

veggiecanner said:


> That includes not thinking some one else can take care of you.


Or that you might just have to rely on someone else for help.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

veggiecanner said:


> Do you think people who won't prep now will do very well on the weed and rat soup you will offer them? I guess if you don't tell them what it is they won't care.


when you are hungry, really hungry, you really don't care what the mystery meat is. Trust me.

You can prep all you want, doesn't mean when the disaster happens that you will be able to get those preps....


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

veggiecanner said:


> You didn't read the thread did you? How much help will I get from a thug with a gun?


whats not to guarentee you won't become the thug with a gun? You don't know.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Or that you might just have to rely on someone else for help.


yup, prep all you want, and you could still get hurt/sick/lost.....you can do all you can to prepare but life has a way of throwing curve balls. Its those that can find away aanyway that are the real survivors.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

painterswife said:


> *I don't equate people with weeds. *People have the ability to change and surprise you. That would be a big difference between you and I.


You did equate people with weeds. You were the first person in this thread to do so.



> Yes there will be some with out there who want with out giving but my friends and my community all ready know who they are and they will easily* weed *out those who would take and not contribute.


So again, no difference between you and I except the pedestal.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

time said:


> You did equate people with weeds. You were the first person in this thread to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> So again, no difference between you and I except the pedestal.


Do I really have to explain the difference between a verb and a noun?


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

painterswife said:


> Or that you might just have to rely on someone else for help.


Yes your right If i ever have to rely on some one it will be because of some unforseen situation. But Not because i didn't prep and expect some one else to do it for me, that is the difference.
And do i have to repeat you guys changed the subject.
It started out about bad guys that would hold a gun to you and steal your food.
Don't remember that do you?

So all i have to say about this is. Sorry i am not prepping for you.
It's like I would have to prep for the whole country, to make you guys happy. How big do you think my house is? Why should live in my house with all that? Crazy.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

I would suggest you read some Irish history to see what goes on in famine

A very famous Irish song

[YOUTUBE]v9InnXP64To&list=PL8E4239C724FC84E6&feature=mh_lolz[/YOUTUBE]


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## TerraFarm (Jun 4, 2012)

painterswife said:


> You have lost me.


If you're giving away your nutrition and strength to keep your children, who rely on you, safe, it's the same as giving your child's food away. 


Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

TNHermit said:


> I would suggest you read some Irish history to see what goes on in famine
> 
> A very famous Irish song
> 
> [YOUTUBE]v9InnXP64To&list=PL8E4239C724FC84E6&feature=mh_lolz[/YOUTUBE]


:cowboy:


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Do I really have to explain the difference between a verb and a noun?


Please do give me a lesson in the use of language.



> weed someone or something out
> Fig. to remove someone or something unwanted or undesirable from a group or collection. (Fig. on removing weeds from the soil.) We had to weed the less productive workers out one by one. The auditions were held to weed out the actors with the least ability. I'm going through my books to weed out those that I don't need anymore.


weed out - Idioms - by the Free Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Angie,

Here is my humble opinion.

During a crisis the last thing to break down is simple local justice. Yes their will be some violence. But the fact is the law will be well fed long after the rest of the population. Prep with this in mind. The average starving masses won't be the ones taking your preps. It will be the local gov. for the "good" of the people.

Look into what actually happens when societies fall. First hand accounts are best... but avoid story tellers the likes of FERFAL.  try this.
http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/famine/introduction.htm



P.S. most people sit and wait for food till they are too hungry to travel. Don't be that person. Bug the heck out if you must.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2012)

NickieL said:


> whats not to guarentee you won't become the thug with a gun? You don't know.


Well if i do, it will be pretty clear from this thread i will know what to expect. Isn't it. And that would be fair.

It's also pretty clear to me by reading this thread. that some people think they may have to become a thug to get food. Other wise they wouldn't have a fear of preppers.

I have to ask, what if there were no forums relating to prepping? You all didn't know there were such people. Who would you all have to depend on then? Who would you be badgering and telling them to prep for you? Do you think they would listen and do it?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

veggiecanner said:


> Well if i do, it will be pretty clear from this thread i will know what to expect. Isn't it. And that would be fair.
> 
> It's also pretty clear to me by reading this thread. that some people think they may have to become a thug to get food. Other wise they wouldn't have a fear of preppers.
> 
> I have to ask, what if there were no forums relating to prepping? You all didn't know there were such people. Who would you all have to depend on then? Who would you be badgering and telling them to prep for you? Do you think they would listen and do it?


People having been prepping for centuries. You are not doing anything new or special. The chance that a world wide SHTF situation will happen is very small. I doubt most will ever ask you to share.

They just did not call it prepping, they called it living their lives.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

Yes they did it for them selves, and whatever they could fit in their homes. i suppose they may have built on rooms just for it.
But how many of us could afford to build on a extra room just in case we might have to feed some one some day. Or how much of our stuff should i throw out to store food for your family.
Again I ask how much have you given up to help take care of my family?
and another thing, their are 2 of us here we can only eat so much. how do you expect us to rotate the food for an extra family? We cann't. the food would go to waste. And as you well know food is expensive now.
It's all good and fine if you want to feed people, and i wish you well. But i won't feel bad if i cann't.
At least I am honest about my abilities. Don't you think if people find out you have food more and more people will show up. How many acres do you have for tents, gardens and other needs that it takes to take care of the multitudes?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

stanb999 said:


> Angie,
> 
> Here is my humble opinion.
> 
> ...


thanks for the advice Stan.
I plan to stay grey and watch out.

And I'm getting amused at the ones that are here trying to tell us how to take care of others, and how we are bad to not be "community". Of course, they must have missed the first part of the thread.

But the usual people are here with the usual outlook.

I still say even the ones staying shun one out of community, share into a "commune food source", are going to find out that it doesn't work. Take a look into communes now a days.

But of course, I think the ones of the community food storage, eating, etc are from a more community take care of everyone area now, and do not understand how we feel and live in other parts of the country.

Seems to be an old clashing of outlook.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

veggiecanner said:


> Yes they did it for them selves, and whatever they could fit in their homes. i suppose they may have built on rooms just for it.
> But how many of us could afford to build on a extra room just in case we might have to feed some one some day. Or how much of our stuff should i throw out to store food for your family.
> Again I ask how much have you given up to help take care of my family?
> and another thing, their are 2 of us here we can only eat so much. how do you expect us to rotate the food for an extra family? We cann't. the food would go to waste. And as you well know food is expensive now.
> ...



You are the one who keeps saying that we are asking you to provide for others. I have not asked you to do anything. Sharing and working with others comes from the heart. If it is something you do not want to do I won't ask you to. I am saying that is not how I will live my life and I know many others that will not as well.

It is important to me to make sure that others using this forum know there are those that will work with others and they will not have to steal to survive.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Please leave a sign out so they know they are safe to come partake with you.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

painterswife said:


> You are the one who keeps saying that we are asking you to provide for others. I have not asked you to do anything. Sharing and working with others comes from the heart. If it is something you do not want to do I won't ask you to. I am saying that is not how I will live my life and I know many others that will not as well.
> 
> It is important to me to make sure that others using this forum know there are those that will work with others and they will not have to steal to survive.


You were the one who said we should be ready to feed others.
So what will i feed them if i don't prep extra? 
Do you have a store room as big as your local grocery? because that is what you will need.
I've been around long enough to know when some one is not being honest and it's not fair to others to give them the idea they don't have to prep. You shouldn't do it. Your not helping any one. It's like hanging out a sign that says come on over we can all starve together.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Where did I say that? I have never professed to be able to feed everyone for ever. You are reaching while trying to prove a point. I never even said I could feed them for a week.

I did say that I would work with others and do what I could to help.

You have just called me dishonest. Please point out some facts on that one. Is that an insult Angie?


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

painterswife said:


> Where did I say that? I have never professed to be able to feed everyone for ever. You are reaching while trying to prove a point. I never even said I could feed them for a week.
> 
> I did say that I would work with others and do what I could to help.
> 
> You have just called me dishonest. Please point out some facts on that one.


Your dishonest in that you cann't even meet the expectations you are putting on others. 
We were all being honest about what we thought we could do, but no that wasn't good enough for you. 
So your going to go out and help, but we are supposed to provide the food?
We are saying we simply cann't. Besides that that isn't what you said at all.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

veggiecanner said:


> Your dishonest in that you cann't even meet the expectations you are putting on others.
> We were all being honest about what we thought we could do, but no that wasn't good enough for you.
> So your going to go out and help, but we are supposed to provide the food?
> We are saying we simply cann't. Besides that that isn't what you said at all.


Please reread all my posts. I have never asked you to provide food or anything. Please show me where I did. Again with the dishonest. Have you read the rules of the forum?


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

You can have my beans when you pry them from my cold dead hands!!! 

so are some here talking about community or communes and other types of collectives??? 

Also what type of scenarios are we talking about? some of the confusion could be people talking about different types of scenarios.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

actually I see the dishonestly of raising expectations to others, "making sure that other know that there are those that will share and take them in" - and trying to show us the error of our ways.

The insulting of telling another poster to know the meaning of words.

There are a lot of close to really personal insults in this thread, and many of them from you towards the rest of us.

And the dishonest was use in the raising expectations to others that you've only said the community, not you, could meet - and if after bringing them in to work that you'd have the community, but not YOU, the community would push them out to fend for themselves.

So, make sure you know which insult or inferred insult on this thread you are talking about. There are many, and you have participated in them also. Maybe not by one word, but by several.

And I have a pretty good reading of the rules of the site and forum.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> actually I see the dishonestly of raising expectations to others, "making sure that other know that there are those that will share and take them in" - and trying to show us the error of our ways.
> 
> The insulting of telling another poster to know the meaning of words.
> 
> ...


I have not raised anyone' expectations if I tell the truth. 

I have not called your position an "error of the ways" I have just stated my position and how different it is from others.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

When things are like they are even here on a *prepping* forum, just imagine how hairy things can get when people have no food, are cold, hot, tired, thirsty, sick and so forth. It will be bad. I pray not, but I am realistic.
And it sure looks like it is a headed this way like a run a way freight train with no brakes. Kinda makes your stomach tighten up a bit.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

And this all started by people in another thread saying they will come take and some kill to get what others have, and this in support of illegal aliens coming to take from our country.

Since you are telling the truth about what you and your community (for the communtiy people taking ones in and sharing, but kicking out those that don't work) will do in hard times, please let these people know so they can be taken care of and work with you. And the ones that have said they will come and take it from you - you can deal with them as you please.
Be aware they are coming to TAKE and possibly KILL to get it.

That is what this thread is about, but some came to side track it and try to tell the rest of us we need to share, and tried to make us bad.

I have to tell you
This forum is for preparing to defend what we have as much as learning to make it and keep it.

And if you are relying on the community to be consolidated and your work go there, I hope you are doing it now.

But for this group and focus of this forum, it is about keeping what we work for, and maybe a community if our choosing. 

And learning how to have something and only give when we choose, and not when anyone else wish to give it, take it, or other. this includes local, state, national or international group. We will give when we decide it is right to give. 

So back to the original purpose, 
be aware there are those that are on a homesteading site already saying they will kill to get food. Not try to grow, not buy extra cans of beans, or rice. Just take.

if they try to have extra now, (by one get one free from the grocery if nothing else) then they will not have to worry about getting food, at least for awhile, and after a bit, trust may build and communities may evolve. 

But that is NOT what was said on the thread that I referred to when starting this thread. I was totally astounded that a site that is suppose to be about Homesteading that is reliance a good deal on your self and basic skills, but apparently we've been citified by those that think it's okay to give to others if it's not yours to give, or take from you and give, or allow others to take.

And as for living the old way and not "prepping" I've said that all along. The old type had a rifle that could greet people coming up the drive that they did not know, and then they could decide to use it or not. But sneaking up and taking was not a healthy choice in many ways in many areas. And they were a community enough to keep their eyes out for strangers that might be nefarious, and let others know - they might even share when they knew a neighbor was down - but that neighbor was a worker too.

So don't try to blow that smoke here.
And even those that are helping others in other countries are walled up to keep what they have for the people they are helping, and those that try to take are met with gunfire if necessary.

and while we may not exist forever off what is stored, or the knowledge we have learned, we stand a heck of a lot better chance knowing that we are an asset and not a leech that has not tried to even learn to help, or be willing to help. Taking is not going far, in our version or your community group .

That is the point, we were talking about those that come to take and will kill to take it if necessary.
Because they will not fix where they are, or work to grow their own food.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

veggiecanner said:


> You were the one who said we should be ready to feed others.
> So what will i feed them if i don't prep extra?
> Do you have a store room as big as your local grocery? because that is what you will need.
> I've been around long enough to know when some one is not being honest and it's not fair to others to give them the idea they don't have to prep. You shouldn't do it. Your not helping any one. It's like hanging out a sign that says come on over we can all starve together.


I don't think that is what anyone is saying. If things were go so bad that there would be a total breakdown in society, then I don't care if a person is a billionaire; we cannot feed everyone and pro or con of the topic, we all understand and get that.

But what is being pointed out is that we can do 'something' for as many as we are able by not putting our own needs ahead of others with the same exact needs. In other words, if our preps will last us a year, then some of us believe we would give up those last couple of months of preps to help others; and or to plan in our preps for having to help others. The attitude of "I was smart; you're lazy and stupid so let your kids die because they are less valued than mine" is what is troubling for some. I know that's not what your meaning, but it does kind of come across as having no compassion or understanding that some just can't visualize any of this coming true.

Personally, I'm not criticizing others or saying anyone is evil for feeling like they do. I'm just saying it just doesn't make sense to me because it just isn't in me, my husband or children to hoard it all for ourselves when we could sacrifice for another human being. Again, we can't feed all but if I could save a couple of lives, I'd do it in a heartbeat and I find it hard to believe that anyone who cares for any other human doesn't feel the same. Just as you can't understand why someone would be willing to die for another.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Never mind.

Peace, love, canned meat.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Karen - what are you going to do when someone comes to your house unannounced and takes ALL your remaining food, and if you get in their way are prepared to KILL you.

What are you going to do?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Anyone coming to take even KILL is making their life more important than ours, 

Why are you not seeing that?

If you've read the whole thread, it is about those coming to take our stores even if it means killing us.

Not coming to ask for help.

Get the difference.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Angie, I understand how you feel and yes there are people that will do just what you are expecting.

I think there are more people that will not. That is my point. I will be working with those people because I do not believe that anyone person or small group will be able to take a stand against those that group together to take.

You for example, a single women not in her younger years. You might have gun or other plans but I don't believe your prospects would be good. You will need others at some point. You will be far better off making those relationships early in any crisis then waiting until they are desperate and just waiting to take you down.

I know there are others. I am lucky to have a group of neighbors and friends that would do that now. I count on them now and they count on me. We are already building those bonds.


Just this last week two different sets of friends, went an trailered our broken down truck, replaced the fuel pump for only the cost of materials and would not take the money for the time and labor. The response was, I know you will be there for me when I need you. I have already spent half a day working in one friends store to pay some of it back and will be there when the other needs me.


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

Ahem.....can we go back to the basement please? Then we can go back to being our own little community again and encourage each other to do what we do! Prep!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

you still are not getting it.

This is about someone coming and taking - not working for it, with you, or otherwise, just flat out robbing the snot out of you, and what you have - or your neighbor you care about. Even willing to kill.

That is the point of this whole thread. And neighborhoods and communities of people that work, and do not TAKE happen and are considered good. Some have said if we don't need food or fire wood , then that leaves more for the ones that we or a group decide to help as they are willing to ask for help, and work or for some other reason be deserving, (maybe they tell great stories) - but taking and being willing to KILL is the point of what I saw in that thread.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

belladulcinea said:


> Ahem.....can we go back to the basement please? Then we can go back to being our own little community again and encourage each other to do what we do! Prep!


I wish.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> you still are not getting it.
> 
> This is about someone coming and taking - not working for it, with you, or otherwise, just flat out robbing the snot out of you, and what you have - or your neighbor you care about. Even willing to kill.
> 
> That is the point of this whole thread. And neighborhoods and communities of people that work, and do not TAKE happen and are considered good. Some have said if we don't need food or fire wood , then that leaves more for the ones that we or a group decide to help as they are willing to ask for help, and work or for some other reason be deserving, (maybe they tell great stories) - but taking and being willing to KILL is the point of what I saw in that thread.


1.Well why would they come and just take it if I am willing to share?

2. I will already have a great group that can defend against those few that try that

3. If they really want it that bad and have a big enough group, then they are going to take it. I won't waste my time or my bullets fighting them. I will just retreat into the hills and get me an elk. There is more than one way to win the battle.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

Most of the urban theves and mauradurers can't get far from there high rise houseing projects so are of little threat to countrysiders our goverment with its giveaway welfare system has created a population of people who think they diserve food and houseing with out working for it the only effort they need to put forth is to multiply .gladly most countrysiders know better but having a plan and ability to protect what is yours is a good idea depending on the goverment is a bad idea as they already are stealing as much as they can get away with from the workers and giving it to the free loaders (themselfs included


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

painterswife said:


> 1.Well why would they come and just take it if I am willing to share?
> 
> 2. I will already have a great group that can defend against those few that try that
> 
> 3. If they really want it that bad and have a big enough group, then they are going to take it. I won't waste my time or my bullets fighting them. I will just retreat into the hills and get me an elk. There is more than one way to win the battle.


I'm happy for you.
Enjoy your elk, if there are any that are not already eaten by that group that you allowed to take your home and supplies.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

painterswife said:


> It is important to me to make sure that others using this forum know there are those that will work with others and they will not have to steal to survive.


This is not intended to be an insult towards anyone on the HT forum nor towards the S&EP forum membership in particular. I just want to say to you Painterswife that I think that the concern you expressed above on behalf of others using this forum is not something that should be important to you. 

This is not the only survival and preparedness forum on internet and it's certainly not the largest or well known, HT has a really small S&EP membership. There are many other preparedness forums with huge memberships and if you were to peruse them all you'd see that pretty much all of them are all different from each other and their memberships all express different mind-sets and attitudes about SHTF from those on all other forums. 

Birds of a feather will find each other and flock together. Like-minded people who are seriously interested in supportive networking and forming together into sharing and welcoming SHTF communities where people don't worry about keeping all their preps to themselves will connect up with each other privately and usually in person within their own territories to pool their resources. They don't talk about it openly on internet because it's too dangerous. And the people who are unable to entertain the concept of sharing communities and who only want to keep their preps to themselves don't want to hear encouragement about sharing communities on internet. It just makes them get pugnacious and nit-picky. For the most part I think efforts to encourage most other readers here about sharing communities is a wasted effort. 

.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

AngieM2 said:


> Karen - what are you going to do when someone comes to your house unannounced and takes ALL your remaining food, and if you get in their way are prepared to KILL you.
> 
> What are you going to do?


I'm not saying I wouldn't defend myself or my family. I would in a heartbeat against any criminal, thief or murderer. Who wouldn't? I'm saying that I disagree with the assumption that everyone who comes to your door is there to steal or kill you; or that we need to hoard all our preps for ourself only because they didn't prepare for themselves.

I'm also saying that when we are willing to share and show compassion and kindness, we can also divert a lot of danger. People out there on the roads are going have had to deal with a lot of unkind people and situations. So they probably will come to the door with an 'attitude'. But I do believe that most people are good and, once they realize our family is just like theirs and would be welcome to a meal, medical attention, or whatever the need -- they will cooperate, drop the attitude, and be glad for whatever (if even very little) help we could provide and not challenge us for more than we can provide. 

The only place I see the bands of thugs is in the bigger cities and communities; mostly because they already are there being thugs now! But normal people, that won't happen until SHTF has gone long-term without much hope of recovery. Then it certainly will be Mad Max; I have no question about it. In that case, I'm prepared to do whatever I have to in order to protect my family or leave this earth if it's that bad.


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## Pam6 (Apr 9, 2009)

Sorry, someone just posted this on FB and I thought of this thread so I HAD to share!! LOL!


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> Karen - what are you going to do when someone comes to your house unannounced and takes ALL your remaining food, and if you get in their way are prepared to KILL you.
> 
> What are you going to do?


I didn't take it that they plan on just giving away what they have willy nilly. I know that we try to prep extras to try to help others until they can actually grow some of their own food. We mainly prep extra seeds, but also some food. I would be hesitant to help a complete stranger though, for the very fact that we don't know what their intentions may be.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

I'll do my part i'll put a poster board just out side the gate with helpful folks names and addresses on it :hobbyhors I have been up to my arm pits already with thieves .Some even now will steal anything to sell for drugs then add in a disaster it will be tough to survive without taking chances . :runforhills:

It is better to go to the door now with a gun in hand and not need it than wish for one after you open the door .:hobbyhors

Longest we were out of electricity was 13 or so days in the winter ice storm only one person stopped it . Our stores were lined up with just a few at a time allowed in sad some shop every meal . In five days it would be a free for all .


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

naturelover said:


> This is not intended to be an insult towards anyone on the HT forum nor towards the S&EP forum membership in particular. I just want to say to you Painterswife that I think that the concern you expressed above on behalf of others using this forum is not something that should be important to you.
> 
> This is not the only survival and preparedness forum on internet and it's certainly not the largest or well known, HT has a really small S&EP membership. There are many other preparedness forums with huge memberships and if you were to peruse them all you'd see that pretty much all of them are all different from each other and their memberships all express different mind-sets and attitudes about SHTF from those on all other forums.
> 
> ...


So we are the bad guy not the ones that don't prep, got cha.
Your volunteering other peoples preps is wrong, in so many ways.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Karen said:


> I'm not saying I wouldn't defend myself or my family. I would in a heartbeat against any criminal, thief or murderer. Who wouldn't? I'm saying that I disagree with the assumption that everyone who comes to your door is there to steal or kill you; or that we need to hoard all our preps for ourself only because they didn't prepare for themselves.
> 
> I'm also saying that when we are willing to share and show compassion and kindness, we can also divert a lot of danger. People out there on the roads are going have had to deal with a lot of unkind people and situations. So they probably will come to the door with an 'attitude'. But I do believe that most people are good and, once they realize our family is just like theirs and would be welcome to a meal, medical attention, or whatever the need -- they will cooperate, drop the attitude, and be glad for whatever (if even very little) help we could provide and not challenge us for more than we can provide.
> 
> The only place I see the bands of thugs is in the bigger cities and communities; mostly because they already are there being thugs now! But normal people, that won't happen until SHTF has gone long-term without much hope of recovery. Then it certainly will be Mad Max; I have no question about it. In that case, I'm prepared to do whatever I have to in order to protect my family or leave this earth if it's that bad.


Unfortunately I don't believe it will happen like this. Desperate people do desperate things. People who have always had others take care of them are not going to be happy with just a little. They'll be thinking about what will happen tomorrow. Give an inch, they would take a mile. I'm sure some will be happy with whatever you provide, but history shows us that the majority will not be happy until they have it all.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

i live in a small town and they are already stealing stuff.
Things won't be much like it is now, I am not sure it will be any where comparable. The small towns could like the big cities, because people are leaving the cities.

Look at the riots in Greece.

Look here people are already not happy cause we want to keep our own supplies.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

I wonder how many people here have opened their homes and pantries for the less fortunate? Even when times are good there are many it seems. Im not talking about giving to a charity or donating some old cans. 

The way many talk I get the impression Im a bad guy if I think its hard enough to take care of myself let alone others. (although I do intend to try to share knowledge and seeds as much as I can) Am I supposed to open a soup kitchen if things get rough?? 

I fully intend to help others as much as I am able dont get me wrong, but I have children here, they come first. I simply cant give away their bread and hope the next harvest is good...


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

silverseeds said:


> I wonder how many people here have opened their homes and pantries for the less fortunate? Even when times are good there are many it seems. Im not talking about giving to a charity or donating some old cans.
> 
> The way many talk I get the impression Im a bad guy if I think its hard enough to take care of myself let alone others. (although I do intend to try to share knowledge and seeds as much as I can) Am I supposed to open a soup kitchen if things get rough??
> 
> I fully intend to help others as much as I am able dont get me wrong, but I have children here, they come first. I simply cant give away their bread and hope the next harvest is good...


Ive opened my garden to people to come PICK what they want. No takers in ten tears. But they have no problem if you pick it and take it o them


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

veggiecanner said:


> So we are the bad guy not the ones that don't prep, got cha.
> Your volunteering other peoples preps is wrong, in so many ways.


No, you don't "got cha" at all. I don't think you're a bad guy for prepping and wanting to keep your preps to yourself. I think you should keep your preps to yourself and do with them as you see fit. As for people who don't prep, I don't think they are bad guys either, I'm not afraid of them and I don't hate them the way you do. I do feel sorry for them, I think they'll have a rough time of it when the crunch comes and many of them will be dropping dead like flies from attrition.

I do think you're a bit confused though because you're getting personal, telling me I'm wrong and accusing me of volunteering other people's preps when I haven't volunteered yours or anybody else's preps to anyone. All I've suggested is that some people should consider forming SHTF communities to pool their resources and protect their resources together. That's not volunteering other people's possessions. Pooling resources in a community is something that other people will or will not choose for themselves, it's a matter of trust and not something that I can volunteer for them to do. Nobody can.

I will tell you this though, that I believe I have already given away 3 times more of my preps to other people in my lifetime than I think you will ever accumulate to keep for yourself even once in your lifetime. I believe this because I've done a review of all of your posts (99% of them made only in the past week), you don't seem to have contributed much in a positive way, more like a lot of complaining and your doom & gloom attitude and wanting to pick fights with people on this forum who you know nothing about has left me with a very poor impression of you. I don't think you're a bad person because I still don't know enough about you yet but I do know already that I wouldn't want somebody with your fearful attitude in my own prepper community. Your brand of negativity would pose too much of a risk to the morale and trust of the rest of the community.

.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

I don't understand why some are getting their panties in a knot over the concept of some folks prepping plan is taking from others. You haven't been paying attention It's always been that way, so post away and tell us all about your preps! It won't always be at the point of a gun either. There are cute little master manipulating weasels who are more effective on those who are careful of a blade or a gun. There are teams, cute, pathetic hungry little children and their handlers.......

We want to feed those children. We don't care, they're hungry! 

Just like that hungry little sparrow we throw out some crumbs for it. Then there are two sparrows, then more. We're buying feed for a Flock of Sparrows. Now, the blue jays come and they make a mess. We keep putting feed out so the sparrows can eat. The crows come along. Not only are they eating a lot of food but they're killing a few sparrows here and there and they're raiding the hen house for eggs and grabbing chicks, too. We know what big tattletales crows are. Raccoons show up next. They don't care about the seed you put out for the sparrows, they want everything in your hen house.

Your neighbors want to feed the raccoons. You want them gone. Your neighbors want you to livetrap and relocate them. You know they will either come right back or be a problem to somebody else. 

Shoot shovel and shut up.

1) Don't feed the sparrows

2) Don't let crows know you have feed

3) Don't discuss raccoons with your neighbors, take care of the problems quietly.

Sourdough's grizzlies are looking like mighty fine neighbors, ain't they?


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

naturelover said:


> No, you don't "got cha" at all. I don't think you're a bad guy for prepping and wanting to keep your preps to yourself. I think you should keep your preps to yourself and do with them as you see fit. As for people who don't prep, I don't think they are bad guys either, I'm not afraid of them and I don't hate them the way you do. I do feel sorry for them, I think they'll have a rough time of it when the crunch comes and many of them will be dropping dead like flies from attrition.
> 
> I do think you're a bit confused though because you're getting personal, telling me I'm wrong and accusing me of volunteering other people's preps when I haven't volunteered yours or anybody else's preps to anyone. All I've suggested is that some people should consider forming SHTF communities to pool their resources and protect their resources together. That's not volunteering other people's possessions. Pooling resources in a community is something that other people will or will not choose for themselves, it's a matter of trust and not something that I can volunteer for them to do. Nobody can.
> 
> ...


yes, i am negative. Wasn't always that way. Till i saw every one thinking they should have every ones stuff instead of working for them selves. it does make a person bitter.
I give stuff away all the time. But when it is my choice, not yours or any one elses.
But why do people make excuses for other people not prepping? Why do they want to see those people hurt? Why not be honest with them and tell them to prep because we won't be able to help if they don't. To me not being honest is just about as mean as it gets.
It doesn't hurt my feelings that you don't want me in your group, really not at all. Never asked to be, never would.


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## jessimeredith (Sep 12, 2004)

sigh...I leave for work for a couple of hours and things go nutty!

What I dislike about this whole thread is 1.) it's turned from a "what would you do" to a "this is what I think you should do" thread and 2.) everyone is painting everyone else with great big ol' HUGE broad brushstrokes.

I said it in the original thread (linked in the OP) and will say it again here.

*IF you come and are willing to work and better yourself and situation, you will be welcome on my place. BUT if you come, wanting a handout because you "deserve" it or to steal, you will be dealt with accordingly.*

And yeah, I did say DH was a crack shot and I was trained by a sniper...but that doesn't mean that I intend to shoot everyone that wanders to my driveway. I expect you to put in as much work as I do in order to reap the rewards at the end of the day. Part (and it's a BIG part) of the problem with the mass mentality is that work for reward is no longer expected or taught. It's those that I have issue with...we call them "the give mes."


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

It would be the same here, but that's not even what is happening in this thread. We are being judged for wanting to decide what to do with our own supplies. tells me it would be worse later when things get really bad.

Do you have to be part of some kind of club to post on here?

i came here to learn some thing about prepping and i am afraid i have learned too much. Thanks guys.


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## jessimeredith (Sep 12, 2004)

Don't run off veggiecanner...there is plenty to learn yet. The biggest lesson is to keep the information that you find valuable at the moment and leave the rest to compost. It'll stink up your world for a bit but after a while it becomes more useful.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

veggiecanner said:


> Do you have to be part of some kind of club to post on here?
> 
> i came here to learn some thing about prepping and i am afraid i have learned too much. Thanks guys.


LOL. No, don't run away. You don't have to be part of some kind of club to post here. (Maybe fit in with the status quo sometimes but Angie is the one who decides what the status quo is around here). 

You can never learn too much about prepping and there's a lot to learn here. Jessimeredith gave you good advice:


> The biggest lesson is to keep the information that you find valuable at the moment and leave the rest to compost. It'll stink up your world for a bit but after a while it becomes more useful.


.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

time said:


> > Originally Posted by *time*
> > &#12288;
> > Is not "weeding out" the same as "pushing others into their graves" in the context you use?
> 
> ...


*** "*Show me where I said anything about executing anyone."*

See your first quote above? Right there. You were equating "weeding people out" with "pushing them into the grave". Pushing people into the grave is the same things as executing them. Weeding people out is not the same thing as execution, or as you refer to it, "pushing them into the grave". Weeding people out simply means getting rid of them, casting them out, it doesn't mean pushing them into the grave. 

"Pushing them into the grave" are your words, not mine nor anybody else's, but it still means "execution".

** "You keep trying to attribute actions to me that do not exist."*

Excuse me ?!? You want to explain that one? Where did you get the idea from any of my posts that I was attributing ANY actions to YOU? Who even said anything about YOU? I answered questions that you asked but how, in your mind, did my answers become all about YOU?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



I think a few people posting in this thread are taking it far too personally as if they think that other people are pointing resentful fingers at them. I have not seen anybody posting here pointing any fingers at anybody else in this topic, so what's the reason for the persecution complexes that are being exhibited here?

Some people are not able or not willing to share their preps with others. So what? Who cares? It's no big deal and nobody was pointing fingers at people who aren't able or aren't willing to share their preps. 

Some people are able and willing to share their preps with others. That is no big deal either and it's not a reason for preppers who can't share to be resentful towards preppers who can share. As a matter of fact, being resentful towards preppers who are willing to share is downright ungracious and ridiculous, it's on a par with people who think they "deserve" to have things given to them just because they want it.

And just because there are people who are preppers (sharing or not) is no reason to be resentful towards people who are too short sighted to prep. People who are non-preppers will learn to prepare if they want to survive. 

*If people, either preppers or non-preppers, come to kill you or steal your preps when the SHTF then they are murderers and looters and should be dealt with exactly the same way any other murderers and looters would be dealt with. *

It's a no brainer.

.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

I guess maybe my problem must be that I thought we were talking out our area we lived in; not as a country in general. 

I live in an area far from a major city and off the beaten path. It's a place where people don't even know where their house key is because you don't need it. We all go on vacation and don't lock a door. People don't even lock their car doors at Walmart. Where ladies leave their handbag in their shopping cart to go to another part of the aisle and don't find their handbag gone.

There hasn't been a murder in our closest town (that has only one police officer BTW) in over 20 years; little theft (only the occasional druggie); and where the list of crime is 90% due to public swearing or intoxication - not for any serious crimes.

It's where people are self-sufficient, prepared, and willing to help each other if need be. Strangers are viewed not as threats, but as people we simply haven't met yet. In fact, it's an area where you wave to even those you don't know and it's considered impolite to pass another car on the road without at least some sort of gesture of saying 'hi'.

It's an area where people block the aisles in the stores or stop in the middle of the road to chat - yet no one gets impatient; you just wait for them to get done. In fact, it just occurred to me that I haven't heard anyone toot their horn at someone else except to signal danger or say 'howdy'. I haven't seen a single incident of road rage since we've lived here the past 10 years.

It's where seldom see a yard without a garden.

Now I'm sure not living with my head in the sand. I'm from Toledo, OH; my husband from Detroit. We lived and worked for 5 yrs. in NYC; came her from the Tampa FL area. Just saying that at the present time - in my particular area, I just can't see people changing overnight and bands of thieves coming to my house. If someone is here, it's because they need help; not because they plan on cleaning me out of everything I have.

As a matter of fact, people talk about how during the depression this area was impacted hardly at all. People have always lived a simple respectful life, knew how to garden and take care of themselves, anticipated layoffs, and lived the same before, during and after the depression. It's the reason we choose to move to this particular area. I just can't see it being any different during SHTF; at least not until it continues long-term due to a total economic collapse, virus, etc.

I will say that one of the close cities to us (about 1/2 hr. away) did quarantine during a severe polio outbreak in the 50's. They literally sealed off the city with baracades and armed guards to protect it's occupants. No one in; no one out. If you went out, it was made clear you wouldn't be getting back in.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

I got a question for ya'll. What if the people who needed fed were the other people on HT, The ones that don't read SP, CE or such because they are to controversial or for what ever reason. The information was right there. What is your responsibility to them


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

AngieM2 said:


> you still are not getting it.
> 
> *This is about someone coming and taking - not working for it, with you, or otherwise, just flat out robbing the snot out of you, and what you have - or your neighbor you care about. Even willing to kill.*
> 
> *That is the point of this whole thread.* And neighborhoods and communities of people that work, and do not TAKE happen and are considered good. Some have said if we don't need food or fire wood , then that leaves more for the ones that we or a group decide to help as they are willing to ask for help, and work or for some other reason be deserving, (maybe they tell great stories) -*but taking and being willing to KILL is the point of what I saw in that thread*.


Angie, I think everyone got it that the above noted was what this thread was about - it just sort of diverged into other discussions along the way.

But why is this so shocking for you to read about that now? It's not the first time that some members of this board have confessed that they will steal and kill and that they will even cannibalize other people .... and most especially they've said they'll do all that not only for themselves but also to feed their children and to teach their children how to do the same things so that they'll survive at all costs. At all costs. You have even shut down and deleted some of the topics that have come up about cannibalism. Why is it coming as such a shock to you NOW to realize that some people here really are willing to barter their souls to the devil and commit atrocities if it means they and their children can survive for one more miserable day of hell on earth? How did you miss it? Most of it is just blow-hard talk but did you not think that some of it was more than just a lot of blow-hard talk and that they were actually telling the truth?

I've said it to you before and I'll say it again, there are some monsters amongst us on this forum and discussions about politics and illegal aliens and survival and emergency preparedness draws the monsters out of the woodwork like wasps drawn to the smell of fresh blood.

And more to the point - we all get it, we all understand that's what's bothering you now - but what do you want us to do about it? What do you want us to say? Should we all become distrustful of absolutely everybody because of a few monsters in our midst?

.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

TNHermit said:


> I got a question for ya'll. What if the people who needed fed were the other people on HT, The ones that don't read SP, CE or such because they are to controversial or for what ever reason. The information was right there. What is your responsibility to them


None. They aren't here.

.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

nl. - there are people on here exhibiting severe case of rose colored glasses.

It shocked me due to the zombies already here, and posting about it on this site.

And there are those posting here that are not seeing that the zombies are here, and don't give a rats patooty how kind and sharing you are.

The former threads, deletes about "long pork" and such are usually discussing how not to be those people and the deleted threads are usually the advocating not being prepared but just taking and killing and eating the people.

so, it shocked me
1. to see zombies posting on a HT site and using it to advocated current illegal activity - so I warn this forum to let them know to pay attention it is already starting.
2. there are too many with currently rose colored glasses, and do not even like seeing us being cruel and selfish and saying they are not putting us down, etc just saying what they would do, and that is not what all those posts were about.

This is not a rose colored glasses forum, that's Melissas Families forum where injustices of the world get discussed and supported or not, depending on the poster. 

this is Survival and Emergency Prep - keep you eyes open and my disgust and dismay is about those that are not seeing that people are already rationalizing that it's okay to come take and kill, if their conditions are not what they want, and they don't want to change their conditions.

So, that is why I keep coming back to the reason I started this thread, and even if single person, small group or larger group - there are already people out there saying it's okay to take from you if they have less, and not asking to share but to TAKE and up to Killing.

That is what this forum is about knowing and being ready to keep it from happening.


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

painterswife said:


> No I am not. I am saying that I can not understand your idea that you will prep for yourself and throw everyone else to the wolves.


Me and mine are my #1 priority.
I have a finite number of dollars, and a finite number of available hours.
Therefore, MY available dollars and hours will be spent on me and mine.

Those that opt to NOT prep for themselves and their loved ones are choosing, of their own accord, to either be dined on by wolves or become wolves, themselves. Put simply, you'll lay in the bed that you make.


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

naturelover said:


> And more to the point - we all get it, we all understand that's what's bothering you now - but what do you want us to do about it? What do you want us to say? Should we all become distrustful of absolutely everybody because of a few monsters in our midst?
> 
> .


Situational awareness is imperative in EVERY facet of our lives... even in simply driving your vehicle from point A to point B.

My take is that Angie is encouraging people to be aware (not distrustful) of the mindset of some people, and the situation at hand.


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## TerraFarm (Jun 4, 2012)

EasyDay said:


> Situational awareness is imperative in EVERY facet of our lives... even in simply driving your vehicle from point A to point B.
> 
> My take is that Angie is encouraging people to be aware (not distrustful) of the mindset of some people, and the situation at hand.


That's my take too. I think she also stressed, the importance of keeping your exact location to yourself. If people will take, steal, kill, what's to say they're not making sure they have addresses of well stocked pantries and stores?


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Karen said:


> I'm not saying I wouldn't defend myself or my family. I would in a heartbeat against any criminal, thief or murderer. Who wouldn't? I'm saying that I disagree with the assumption that everyone who comes to your door is there to steal or kill you; or that we need to hoard all our preps for ourself only because they didn't prepare for themselves.
> 
> I'm also saying that when we are willing to share and show compassion and kindness, we can also divert a lot of danger. People out there on the roads are going have had to deal with a lot of unkind people and situations. So they probably will come to the door with an 'attitude'. But I do believe that most people are good and, once they realize our family is just like theirs and would be welcome to a meal, medical attention, or whatever the need -- they will cooperate, drop the attitude, and be glad for whatever (if even very little) help we could provide and not challenge us for more than we can provide.
> 
> The only place I see the bands of thugs is in the bigger cities and communities; mostly because they already are there being thugs now! But normal people, that won't happen until SHTF has gone long-term without much hope of recovery. Then it certainly will be Mad Max; I have no question about it. In that case, I'm prepared to do whatever I have to in order to protect my family or leave this earth if it's that bad.




I'll let you and your family use the bathroom and shower up, but you can't stay in my house. Camp over there, stay out of my garden and keep off the grass! You can stay a few nights, then move on.


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

*


naturelover said:



protected by a council of trusted managers and leaders.

Click to expand...

*


naturelover said:


> Is everyone happy with all their elected leaders now. Do you really trust the elected leaders to make decisions based on your best interests? Good luck with that!
> 
> * Everyone shares equally. *
> 
> ...




Have you read the history of democracies? That has not worked historically. In fact it has lead to where the US is now on the way to its total demise historically.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Angie, I don't think it's rose colored glasses. TEOWAWKIN isn't going to be exactly the same for all people. It's going to be based on our own personal geographical area more than anything else; as well as our own prior experiences, our own levels of panic, our own levels of prepping, and our own levels of compassion.

I honestly think that we've all watched too many movies and read too many books and scenarios to even guess at what it will be like. It will be whatever it will be and each of us here will be as prepared as we can be.

For instance, NYC is going to hell on earth; but up on a mountain in the middle of nowhere with a population of less than 500 (mostly farmers) who all mostly know each other, is going to be _*totally*_ different. 

Plus everyone's perception of how long or how bad the SHTF situation is. It's going to be different from one of 6 months to one of 6 years. Will there be a Mad Max melt down in NYC within hours -- you betcha; melt down on top of that mountain? Several years if ever.

Would I react or feel differently if I lived in NYC? Of course, but I don't live in NYC; my prep and mindset is based on where I'm dug in right now.


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

Karen said:


> For instance, NYC is going to hell on earth; but up *on a mountain in the middle of nowhere with a population of less than 500 (mostly farmers) who all mostly know each other*, is going to be _*totally*_ different.


Concur! In fact, I've staked everything I have, including my life, on the bolded statement.


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

Karen has expressed my thoughts, pretty much.

I read the original thread, and parts of this one, with some dismay.

If we are going to be arguing over possibilities, how will (the collective) we, deal with the reality we are faced? More arguing? 

For myself, I *presume* that there will be a small community coming together here in my neighborhood, because that is the logical thing to do. I know a number of people who "prep", even though it might only be a garden, or a small pantry. It is more common than not, to have at least a few weeks' groceries on hand and nearly everyone has a freezer too. 

Will they all have solid skills that will help? Probably not all of them. But you are dealt the hand you're dealt, by fate. How you play that hand (resources, preps, knowledge, etc) and when, is the key. No one knows how far my preps go, not even family members. I intend to keep it that way for as long as possible.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

Why do people think that they can sit with a houseful of food and dole it out to needy people and then pick and choose when and how much or even decide to not share anymore. Doesn't it occur to them that when they cut off the supply their needy friends are NOT GOING AWAY QUIETLY TO STARVE. They might as well put a target on their forheads!


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Actually, I don't think "I" will make the choice, the person themselves will. I will have given them a choice. I won't bunker down and not interact at all.
> 
> Well, I think that most everyone here agrees that we are not making the choice. The person who has chosen not to prepare has already made their choice. My choice is I am not going to choose to share with them if doing so will adversely affect my family's chance for survival in my opinion. If they choose to try to steal or take my resources by force, then I will choose to stop them by whatever means required. There, I guess we really are thinking along the same lines.
> 
> I don't have a clue what you will do. I have only spoken to what I will do.


Now you know what I will do. But I will not ask someone else to do something that I am not prepared to do myself. Never have, never will. So I will not depend on someone else send someone that steals out of my community, or to defend my resources or community resources if I am not willing to do it myself. I guess that is the major difference I see between what most of the people in this forum have said and what you have said.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Guess my posting is one of them that started this whole mess.

Maybe people didn't pay enough attention to the qualifier on my post "...if I could find no other way..."

For those that don't know. I do prep so that hopefully it will never come to that. But I also realize there is no way I could prep for every situation. 

Seems a few that have posted here have also forgotting that prepping includes more than just storing supplies away. It should also include preparing yourself mentally and emotionally to deal with any situation. 

I would like to suggest that if you have Netflicks to what the TV series "The Colony." Just might help you to prepare for what may lie ahead.

WWW


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

naturelover said:


> *** "*Show me where I said anything about executing anyone."*
> 
> See your first quote above? Right there. You were equating "weeding people out" with "pushing them into the grave". Pushing people into the grave is the same things as executing them. Weeding people out is not the same thing as execution, or as you refer to it, "pushing them into the grave". Weeding people out simply means getting rid of them, casting them out, it doesn't mean pushing them into the grave.
> 
> ...


My post #104. Note, I said "you can't save everyone". I said nothing of graves, executions or even punching folks.



> It's not a matter of "deserve".
> 
> You can't save everyone. People are sufferring in the world today. Community working together for the "as rich and as wonderful " life isn't working now to meet your standards.
> 
> ...


Post #110. Note, someone else jumps from not saving every one to pushing them into graves. My post #104 was quoted.



painterswife said:


> That is exactly the difference between you and I. I see no point in surviving if I have to *push others into their graves *to get there. I will go happy to my grave knowing that those who worked with me shared in all we had. I know that I could survive on my own where I live with what I have for a long while but the reason I have what I have at this point in my life is because others gave of their time or money with no regards to payback so I could get to where I am.
> 
> Yes there will be some with out there who want with out giving but my friends and my community all ready know who they are and they will *easily weed out those *who would take and not contribute.


Post #129. Of special note, post #110 was quoted in my post #129. A second note, I even used quotation marks around those particular words *because they were not mine.*



time said:


> After reading your last sentance, there is no difference between you and I with the exception that I don't hold myself up on a pedestal.
> 
> Is not "weeding out" the same as "pushing others into their graves" in the context you use?
> 
> ETA: I don't find it a coincedence you use the words "pushing others into their graves" when addressing folks like me but use "weeding out" to describe your own actions. Sorry hon, on the inside your as cold as I am despite your outward appearance.


Sorry, you are wrong. Those are not my words. Hence the quotation marks around them. My words were, "You can't save everyone". Between that poster and you it became an "execution".

painterswife used both sets of words to describe the same thing. Try a little context in your reading. I said "You can't save everyone" and she equated that with "pushing others to their grave". She then went on to explain that those that did not meet her groups requirements would be "weeded out"(not helped) wich is the same as me not helping them. In context, she simply used harsher words to describe what happens to folks I don't help than she uses for folks she don't help.

While it's entertaining that you would attribute words she used as being mine, I find it even more interesting that both of you change your words so that what you do with undesirable people your not going to help is "weeding out" or "casting out" but the rest of us are "pushing others to their grave" or "executing" them if we don't help them. All of those words are yours and hers(note the quotation marks again). 



> so what's the reason for the persecution complexes that are being exhibited here?


Could it be the selective twisting of words? I wonder, where in the world would a so called "persecution complex"(note the quotation marks) come from? The accusations of "execution" and "pushing people into their graves"? Your very good at twisting things. There is no complex.

Changing the words you use to describe the same actions is hypocritical at best. Attributing the harsher words to me, as if I said them, is either from a lack of reading/understanding or just plain dishonest. 

It was a nice try though.

All that said, my reply to your above post was not meant to change your mind. It's for those others that are reading this so that they can read those posts and see for themselves who is pulling who's leg. I suggest they consider the credibility of those that would put a different definition on the same action depending on who, themselves or others, is doing the action(casting out/execution, weeding out/pushing others into their grave, all used to describe people you would not help/people I would not help) and changing my sentance of "you can't save everyone" into "sending people into the grave" and "executing".

ETA: I have to admit, I'm looking forward to seeing how your going to equate "You can't save everyone" as an "execution".


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

Possum Belly said:


> When things are like they are even here on a *prepping* forum, just imagine how hairy things can get when people have no food, are cold, hot, tired, thirsty, sick and so forth. It will be bad. I pray not, but I am realistic.
> And it sure looks like it is a headed this way like a run a way freight train with no brakes. Kinda makes your stomach tighten up a bit.


Naw Possum Belly,

We will all just sit around the campfire and sing Cum ba ya and share the last bean 20 ways! Won't we?


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

I gotta question who's been wearing the rose-colored glasses around here. All the untested theories expressed, myths of human predators confined to the cities, people are basically good.......Ya'll don't get out much in your own communities to learn the true character of people.

It's not only your local riffraff that will be a problem, but those so-called "good" people who live in the delusion they don't need to prep. One from last weekend, "It's a lack of faith to hoard food and I'll be murdered and have it taken anyway. God will feed me manna from heaven." Yet I've known this woman long enough to know she justifies all her manipulating thievery with, "God told me...."  Yeah, God told you, or you told God? She sucks a lot of people in with her rapid-fire bs. At what point is her god gonna tell her the manna she is entitled to is your (my) preps?

Funny thing, SHTF and being prepared was a common topic of the weekend. I never brought it up, never discussed what I had except my small farm is currently defunct because of lack of labor.

I don't need to read or watch survival fiction to know what it's about. That stuff is FICTION. I've been living and testing the theories for as long as I can remember. I suggest others start testing their theories by learning the true characters of your neighbors, those who you think will be your Team at some future time. Build it now so you don't get blind-sided later when the stakes are higher.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

cvk said:


> Why do people think that they can sit with a houseful of food and dole it out to needy people and then pick and choose when and how much or even decide to not share anymore. Doesn't it occur to them that when they cut off the supply their needy friends are NOT GOING AWAY QUIETLY TO STARVE. They might as well put a target on their forheads!


There again, it depends on where you live. Up here on the mountain, the only people we're going see are those just passing through trying to get to some where else and just need some help. They won't be staying and will be far away by the time I run out of what I can do. No one's going to hang around here. I guess you'd have to see where we live and know the people to understand. We're not going to have hoards of people coming here and our neighbors won't be among the zombies. But in all honesty, if a stranger would help work the land and contribute to our community with kindness and helpfulness, I could see our community allowing them to stay as long as they wanted.

But regardless, if society and my community break down to the point your talking about, I no longer care to live nor have my family live in such a world. So shoot me quick so it don't hurt too long. There are a whole lot of worst things than death, and living in a society of hate, evil, and not giving a flying leap about another, and where it's everyone for themselves, is one of those things. What's to live for in that type of world and why turn into 'them' just to stay here a little longer since we're all terminal from the day we're born anyway? Friends, if it's that bad, help ain't comin' and no way it's gettin' any better from there.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Karen said:


> There again, it depends on where you live. Up here on the mountain, the only people we're going see are those just passing through trying to get to some where else and just need some help. They won't be staying and will be far away by the time I run out of what I can do. No one's going to hang around here. I guess you'd have to see where we live and know the people to understand. We're not going to have hoards of people coming here and our neighbors won't be among the zombies. But in all honesty, if a stranger would help work the land and contribute to our community with kindness and helpfulness, I could see our community allowing them to stay as long as they wanted.
> 
> But regardless, if society and my community break down to the point your talking about, I no longer care to live nor have my family live in such a world. So shoot me quick so it don't hurt too long. There are a whole lot of worst things than death, and living in a society of hate, evil, and not giving a flying leap about another, and where it's everyone for themselves, is one of those things. What's to live for in that type of world and why turn into 'them' just to stay here a little longer since we're all terminal from the day we're born anyway? Friends, if it's that bad, help ain't comin' and no way it's gettin' any better from there.


Karen, if I did not know better. I would say that you are just over the hill from me.
I am of the same mind. I lived through the constant threat of Nuclear war and being wiped off this earth. It no longer holds any terror for me. I am prepared for a short term disaster and will work with others if by some minuscule chance that North America is decimated in most locations and we need a longer term solution. My preparations are far more than food stocks and weapons. My mind and my attitude will go a long way to making sure I am fed if my pantry is decimated and I can do it without taking anything from anyone.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Laura said:


> I gotta question who's been wearing the rose-colored glasses around here. All the untested theories expressed, myths of human predators confined to the cities, people are basically good.......Ya'll don't get out much in your own communities to learn the true character of people.


That's not so at all. I'm saying that people here don't even own a pair of rose-colored glasses because they've lived for generations in the 'real world'. This is the real world; out there is the fairyland. It's fairyland because they have no reality of how society is suppose to work and work together. Fairyland is consumed with greed, no compassion, entitlement, and an attitude of "I'm" most important.

I totally feel sorry for those that live in that type of community/city because I use to live in them. It doesn't have to be that way and there still are places on earth it isn't like that and people _*will*_ react with kindness and compassion. How do I know, because I DO get out into my community. As the only boy scout troopmaster for 30 miles, my husband is VERY active in our community doing service projects, talking to the farmers, and seeing where our community is during emergencies, etc.; as well as the people's mindset. Folks here all know each other and interact every single day. We talk about what we would do and we're prepared. 

Actually, I don't even know another 'prepper' here; they just call it 'being ready' and they're ready for whatever comes. They just don't worry about it because they are ready. I know few people who have less than a year of preps. It's just a lifestyle of being prepared with supplies, food, and mentally and it's been that way for 100's of years here. It's one of the few things people did understand and appreciate about the native Americans in this part of the country and did 'learn'.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

"Prepping" has become some kind of new business. There are lots of us out there that were brought up to be prepared every day. I live in a farming community that work together to put up the fall bounty. They did not just start doing this. It is a way of life. The churches have canning parties. People get together in the fall to deliver and stack firewood for the elderly and needy.

Rose colored glasses? No, I already live in a world where people are working together. I do not see any big changes happening when times get bad.

How do I know they will accept others that are wiling to pitch in? They accepted me.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

Karen said:


> What's to live for in that type of world and why turn into 'them' just to stay here a little longer since we're all terminal from the day we're born anyway? Friends, if it's that bad, help ain't comin' and no way it's gettin' any better from there.


How is defending your family/friends turning into "them". Them in this case are people willing to kill to take from you. Defense is much different then offense as I see it. 

Id also agree that help wouldnt come if it got that bad, but it can get better from there. It ALWAYS has. Humans have had this cycle of civilization many times. 

Now what happens if most of the good folks give in to the rogues just because its a tough time mentally? what world will we have 20 years later? Not sure Im writing this well, but if we give into that darkness, doesnt darkness win? If we hold out, like most times historically before, the road warriors will die out, we will reconnect with the rest of the decent folk, and go from there.... Id hate to see a world where the road warriors for lack of a better world are the ones who triumph. 

Do you you have to do, its your life, and I dont say this to be mean, but myself, I wont go silently into the night if I have a choice. Lets hope none of us have to face anything to THAT level!!!! If we get to that level though, it will be in large part because of the types of folks/mentalities this thread was talking about most likely.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

Karen said:


> That's not so at all. I'm saying that people here don't even own a pair of rose-colored glasses because they've lived for generations in the 'real world'. This is the real world; out there is the fairyland. It's fairyland because they have no reality of how society is suppose to work and work together. Fairyland is consumed with greed, no compassion, entitlement, and an attitude of "I'm" most important.
> 
> I totally feel sorry for those that live in that type of community/city because I use to live in them. It doesn't have to be that way and there still are places on earth it isn't like that and people _*will*_ react with kindness and compassion. How do I know, because I DO get out into my community. As the only boy scout troopmaster for 30 miles, my husband is VERY active in our community doing service projects, talking to the farmers, and seeing where our community is during emergencies, etc.; as well as the people's mindset. Folks here all know each other and interact every single day. We talk about what we would do and we're prepared.
> 
> Actually, I don't even know another 'prepper' here; they just call it 'being ready' and they're ready for whatever comes. They just don't worry about it because they are ready. I know few people who have less than a year of preps. It's just a lifestyle of being prepared with supplies, food, and mentally and it's been that way for 100's of years here. It's one of the few things people did understand and appreciate about the native Americans in this part of the country and did 'learn'.





painterswife said:


> "Prepping" has become some kind of new business. There are lots of us out there that were brought up to be prepared every day. I live in a farming community that work together to put up the fall bounty. They did not just start doing this. It is a way of life. The churches have canning parties. People get together in the fall to deliver and stack firewood for the elderly and needy.
> 
> Rose colored glasses? No, I already live in a world where people are working together. I do not see any big changes happening when times get bad.
> 
> How do I know they will accept others that are wiling to pitch in? They accepted me.


 All of that is GREAT... Im not sure how relevant it is to the thread though. 

As I understood it, the focus of the thread were those who would come to rob your family or community as their "answer" if their current paradigm fell apart. 

I dont believe ANY of us live in such a great area we dont have a few of those around, and even if you do... people from area hit rougher could very well travel, so you may still face them in such an event... 

Im pretty sure we are talking about folks NONE of us would want to join our family unit/community/commune or what have you... Will it get there? I dunno, but its not impossible. Its happened before. 

so how do you guys deal with them IF some of them show up??? Its something it might be prudent to think out to yourself atleast imo...


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

AngieM2 said:


> One thing about the tornadoes. The severe area was a path, but on either side of it, pretty much was okay except for not having power for a week.
> 
> But, do understand, debit cards worked after day 2, there was a dark curfew, and after day one it was proved that it was enforced, people stayed home and many bbq's were done.
> 
> ...


Angie is correct in her statements. I lived 20 miles up the road from Huntsville, but was about 10 miles from her Aunt Peg's house. We had State Troopers and Sheriff's Deputies everywhere in my little town as Huntsville had no way to get the gas out of the pumps (no power) and so people were driving up my way to get gas. Lines on the interstate miles long to get off at the exit to get gas with Troopers directing traffic. Now if those troopers were not there when the gas stations ran out (and the stations did run out!) do you really think people would have "been nice"? I don't as many of those that sat in lines for 2-3 hours were really mad that they didn't get any gas but burned what they did have. Tanker trucks were brought in first thing the next day, and this continued for three days. 

I think the curfew (dusk to dawn) helped tremendously along with a huge police presence (even at the Publix I went to the day after had a Sheriff's deputy there) helped curb people's inclinations to loot/steal/rob/mug others. I think the vast majority of people were trying to help their neighbors but there is that opportunistic minority of bad folks that did try to help themselves at the expense of their neighbors. After the one guy got shot and killed, that sort of woke folks up that might have attempted the same looting/pillaging.

Angie is correct too in saying that the path of destruction was not huge, but the power outage was the main problem. No ATMs, no work (I was out of work for a week w/o pay), if you weren't prepared and had no gas, you might not get out of town to a gas station, grocery stores with the exception of Publix were closed the first couple of days (and goodness gracious, Publix was the best..they brought people and trucks from all their other stores within 5 hours of Huntsville to stock shelves and so forth as food was flying off the shelves). I did meet several young men from Chattanooga who were down to assist the stores and they couldn't believe the devastation.

I think community will try to help each other, but at the same time, you will always have that rogue element that thinks only of themselves and could care less about the rest of the world. I hate to think what would have happened without the curfew and the strong police presence at the areas that were most devastated. 

What you have to think about is next time there may not be a strong police presence and there may not be curfews set by local government...then you have to either band together in small(ish) groups or take care of yourselves.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

silverseeds said:


> All of that is GREAT... Im not sure how relevant it is to the thread though.
> 
> As I understood it, the focus of the thread were those who would come to rob your family or community as their "answer" if their current paradigm fell apart.
> 
> ...


It is perfectly relevant to this thread. I have already made the connections with a community of people that will have my back if those people show up. We will then have the option of helping those willing to work with us or defending ourselves if they don't.

That is how have prepared for those eventualities. Is that not the point of this whole thread?


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

Karen, I've always lived out here on the edge of the wilderness, the place where people plan to go when things go bad. They don't really understand they won't be able to get here. We don't worry about them. Most responsible people here are prepared to be shut off from the rest of the world for a period of time because it frequently happens. No big deal. 

In the Circle of Life there are prey, predators and opportunists. We Hicks in the Sticks out here in Podunk, while living a different lifestyle than metro and 'burbia are still societies that has their underbellies. Have you crawled under there, run your hand across to feel how full and lumpy that is? Brave enough to slice it open with your sword to spill the stink and see whose relatives are there? Trust me on this, they steer clear of Boy Scouts and community projects. They're already a problem nobody wants to talk about.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

KMA1 said:


> Have you read the history of democracies? That has not worked historically. In fact it has lead to where the US is now on the way to its total demise historically.


Yeppers... The founding fathers were pretty sharp... and wanted nothing to do with democracy... that whole mess came much later during the great depression. Our country had its ups and downs but over all was doing well until democracy came along... but it couldnt last long once democracy started creeping in.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

KMA1 said:


> Naw Possum Belly,
> 
> We will all just sit around the campfire and sing Cum ba ya and share the last bean 20 ways! Won't we?


Tell ya what, you sing, and I will see if I can here you from here.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

painterswife said:


> It is perfectly relevant to this thread. I have already made the connections with a community of people that will have my back if those people show up. We will then have the option of helping those willing to work with us or defending ourselves if they don't.
> 
> That is how have prepared for those eventualities. Is that not the point of this whole thread?


Has this theory been tested and proven? Have you yet faced any situation where these people actually had your back, stood up for you, tolerated any discomfort or inconvenience on your behalf or for the good of your neighborhood, because it was the right thing to do, and not because they gained something from it?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura said:


> Has this theory been tested and proven? Have you yet faced any situation where these people actually had your back, stood up for you, tolerated any discomfort or inconvenience on your behalf or for the good of your neighborhood, because it was the right thing to do, and not because they gained something from it?


I guess if you have to ask that question you do not have that kind of friendships and community.

I have lived in quite a few places. I have always have had relationships with people who did things because it was right not because they expected something in return. This is nothing new to me. City or country.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

THIS is definitely a rose-colored glasses statement..."I do not see any big changes happening when times get bad." You have absolutely NO idea how your community will act when times get really, really, life threateningly bad and there is NO outside source of help of any kind forever. You do not answer Laura's legitament questions about your community's responses to you individually in a critical situation. most likely your neighbors have lend helping hands at various times when needed, but again, this is in a time of plenty. Your community and all the others can afford to be generous, helping, kind, considerate and lending a hand now because it is NO skin off their noses so to speak. The stores are supplied, there is gas in their cars and at the gas station, there is medical help available, they can buy livestock food and supplies. NOBODY can predict how people will act/react when the above is gone and will never be available again with the ease it is now. You continue to speak for your community, based on your observations of interactions with them in NORMAL times, as to how they will act in extreme, possibly never ending ABNORMAL times. The potential of "dong what is right" in a worldwide collapse very likely will get one DRN - dead right now! You are standing on a mountain preaching people's attitudes and actions will not change from how they are today in your community and that is what is ticking folks off I do believe. Please do tell us how you managed to find the Garden of Eden on earth.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

goatlady said:


> THIS is definitely a roe-colored glasses statement..."I do not see any big changes happening when times get bad." You have absolutely NO idea how your community will act when times get really, really, life threateningly bad and there is NO outside source of help of any kind forever. Your community and all the others can afford to be generous, helping, kind, considerate and lending a hand now because it is NO skin off their noses so to speak. The stores are supplied, there is gas in their cars and at the gas station, there is medical help available, they can buy livestock food and supplies. NOBODY can predict how people will act/react when the above is gone and will never be available again with the ease it is now. You continue to speak for your community, based on your observations of interactions with them in NORMAL times, as to how they will act in extreme, possibly never ending ABNORMAL times. The potential of "dong what is right" in a worldwide collapse very likely will get one DRN - dead right now! You are standing on a mountain preaching people's attitudes and actions will not change from how they are today in your community and that is what is ticking folks off I do believe. Please do tell us how you managed to find the Garden of Eden on earth.


Why does what I believe tick people off? I am not asking you to believe it. Maybe consider the possibility but that is all.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Why does what I believe tick people off? I am not asking you to believe it. Maybe consider the possibility but that is all.


Because it is dangerous.

If people believe your opinion, it could cost them their lives.

If they believe my opinion, it may save their lives.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

painterswife said:


> I guess if you have to ask that question you do not have that kind of friendships and community.
> 
> I have lived in quite a few places. I have always have had relationships with people who did things because it was right not because they expected something in return. This is nothing new to me. City or country.


 This gets more interesting all the time.
What you will get from a group that forms that has no intention of prepping is dangerous to any one and every one concerned including themselves.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

time said:


> Because it is dangerous.
> 
> If people believe your opinion, it could cost them their lives.
> 
> If they believe my opinion, it may save their lives.


Oh, I get it now, you are right and I am wrong.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

veggiecanner said:


> This gets more interesting all the time.
> What you will get from a group that forms that has no intention of prepping is dangerous to any one and every one concerned including themselves.


Please reread my posts. I never said I do not belive in being prepared.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

painterswife said:


> Oh, I get it now, you are right and I am wrong.


No, if we are wrong, no one will be the worse,

If you are wrong, there may be your life and others at risk.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Oh, I get it now, you are right and I am wrong.


No, you don't get it.

It doesn't matter if you are right because nothing bad will happen.

It does matter if you are wrong because people will die when all they had to do is be aware that bad people do exist everywhere and take steps accordingly.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> No, if we are wrong, no one will be the worse,
> 
> If you are wrong, there may be your life and others at risk.


I believe that is what is called an opinion. You have not proven me wrong.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

AngieM2 said:


> No, if we are wrong, no one will be the worse,
> 
> If you are wrong, there may be your life and others at risk.


Ya beat me to it. :grin:


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

time said:


> No, you don't get it.
> 
> It doesn't matter if you are right because nothing bad will happen.
> 
> It does matter if you are wrong because people will die when all they had to do is be aware that bad people do exist everywhere and take steps accordingly.


All you are saying is that your plan to deal with bad people is better than mine. I am not even sure what your plan is( and don't really care). It does not really matter because you are right and I am wrong.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

painterswife said:


> I believe that is what is called an opinion. You have not proven me wrong.


I would invite you to walk in my shoes.

I don't guess you have experienced much adversity.

I'm afraid it's a lesson you will have to learn the hard way.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

painterswife said:


> I believe that is what is called an opinion. You have not proven me wrong.


As is your opinion, you have not proven me wrong.

So, since we have an opinion as established above.... if one of us is wrong, what will cause the least harm?


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

painterswife said:


> Please reread my posts. I never said I do not belive in being prepared.


Then why do you expect others to prep for you?
I have read your posts, you beleive we hoard stuff and think we should prep for others, because we are rich and have big homes to store things in., I guess.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

time said:


> I would invite you to walk in my shoes.
> 
> I don't guess you have experienced much adversity.
> 
> I'm afraid it's a lesson you will have to learn the hard way.


You are assuming things not in evidence. The reason I feel this way is because I have. Things beyond my control have brought me to my knees.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

painterswife said:


> All you are saying is that your plan to deal with bad people is* better *than mine. I am not even sure what your plan is( and don't really care). It does not really matter because you are right and I am wrong.


Not better.

Safer.

S&EP

The S is for survival.


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## jessimeredith (Sep 12, 2004)

I want to "OMG" you all to bits but le sigh.

ALL of it is untested opinion (unless of course you were up, kicking and well aware of all events taking place during the Depression...in that case, share your secret of longevity please). You can only figure at how things are going to be either in a community or on your own. PEOPLE are stupid, they do stupid things and stupid things happen from their actions (see History). No one, not even those with "solid community of like minded folks" can be guaranteed that everything will happen as planned.

At this point there is no right or wrong because we simply do not know. 

And the point of Angie starting this thread was her surprise that those on a HOMESTEADING FORUM were so willing to say they'd thieve and murder. It was not an open invitation to bash around on one another about beliefs and such. It was genuine concern that HOMESTEADERS were saying these things; people that should know a little something about being prepared and doing for themselves. Personally, I agree with her. What's more, I'm slightly appalled at the finger pointing, veiled name calling and now hissy fit throwing of "right and wrong" going on in this last page. Grown up much?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

veggiecanner said:


> Then why do you expect others to prep for you?
> I have read your posts, you beleive we hoard stuff and think we should prep for others, because we are rich and have big homes to store things in., I guess.


Again please show me where I said that. You have repeatedly attributed things to me but still offer no proof, even when I ask.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I do have one question - if you are of the ones saying people are basically good and they will not come to take and kill, and we just need to work with them.... why are you reading and concerned about that thread that is about "taking what you have" and in the opening post talks about those coming to take and could kill being here now.

If you don't believe in it, why are you posting on it?

Just really curious. This was a heads up to those that I know are here, that do believe and have discussed about zombies coming. This was to notify them that the zombies are even on a forum for growing own food and such.

If you don't believe it - why here?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> I do have one question - if you are of the ones saying people are basically good and they will not come to take and kill, and we just need to work with them.... why are you reading and concerned about that thread that is about "taking what you have" and in the opening post talks about those coming to take and could kill being here now.
> 
> If you don't believe in it, why are you posting on it?
> 
> ...


I am not saying that there are not people who will not kill or steal. I am saying that I think the threat is not near what people make it out to be. I am saying that there are other ways then to shoot on sight to deal with hungry people. I think that my opinion is as valid as yours. I think there are people who read this forum that are of the same belief and have other approaches that are important.

The original person who posted that they would consider the option of theft or killing said it was because they would be hungry. If we can offer another alternative to them having to do that why should I not reply. You may think it is an absurd alternative but why should I not offer it and defend it.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Thank you for your answer and reasons.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

painterswife said:


> Again please show me where I said that. You have repeatedly attributed things to me but still offer no proof, even when I ask.


Your the one that said people don't come on this forum, because we won't share our preps.

So who is the one who expects things from others?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

veggiecanner said:


> Your the one that said people don't come on this forum, because we won't share our preps.
> 
> So who is the one who expects things from others?


enough of this dead horse, please.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

time said:


> Not better.
> 
> Safer.
> 
> ...


So argue that but allow me to argue my point. I am not writing off your opinion. I am just going to go about it a different way.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Laura said:


> Has this theory been tested and proven? Have you yet faced any situation where these people actually had your back, stood up for you, tolerated any discomfort or inconvenience on your behalf or for the good of your neighborhood, because it was the right thing to do, and not because they gained something from it?


Over the past 200+ years here, you bet. Life is not easy here and loss hits us all very hard. Our community was once a thriving, 100% employed, large town due to the railroad. When it shut down, the town collapsed literally overnight. Most people moved on to other places for work, but those that did stay helped each other and instead of a large town, became simply a community; but a community that always has each other's backs and maintains a respect and compassion for all humans. They banned together and turned to full time farming instead.

Our community has been hit with everything else the rest of the world has experienced; wars, natural disasters, forest fires, severe winters, drought, political interferences, the great depression, health issues (polio and TB were especially hard hit here), etc. We've always came through because of commitment and responsibility to each other.

We exchange plants and clothes, barter for goods, plow fields in exchange for some hay in the winter, raise a cow for someone less fortunate, raise a barn that was burned down, help an old lady fix up her house, take in a family who lost everything in a fire, etc. You see, the thing is, there's no scorecards being kept. People here do because they believe we have the moral obligation to do so. It's simply our responsibility to take of our land and all of God's creatures -- especially mankind.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> Thank you for your answer and reasons.


Your welcome.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Since Angie just mentioned Zombies I want to say something about what I realized this morning. I know we have the "pictured" idea of them but i realized this morning that the zombies are among us now.
Lets see if i can explain.

you have a lot of people right here on ht that won't , like i said,. read this forum and such. You also have those "out there" that think its just another political year, just another recession living as someone said behind their rose colored glasses. that it will all be over soon and we will get back to normal. Therein lies the problem. They refuse to see reality and live in the rose colored world they have created for themselves so as not to have to take responsibility for themselves and those entrusted to them. These are the real zombies. They are completely disconnected from reality. They live in a make believe world thinking things will be OK. They have no concept that this time in history is completely different than the recessions and such since WW2. And they have been taught this by people iike Wayne Dywer, Super Plastic fantastic think positive churches, government schools and the govt. When the SHTF they will be complexity unable to think or process what is goin on. Logic will be unavailable to themas they have never used it. They will only be run by emotion and things like hunger. Some may be abruptly wakened to reality but for the most part they won't. And many will learn that pretending to be nice,caring and something they aren't will get them in to steal and destroy and take what belongs to others.

'


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

With regards to the relevance, that's the point some of us are trying to make that I think most are misunderstanding. It's _all about _the 'relevance'! :grin:

The amount of relevance to the original question depends on a huge number of factors; each of us is going to have a different amount of factors though. There is no one-size-fits-all. It is relevant to us all because no man is an island, but how much relevance or how we will be effect is totally different; therefore, our reaction to the questions at hand will be different.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Thank you for your answers.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

This is a great country, and I hope it stays that way. But there are way too many zombies to sit back and be comfortable.
Like i said i think I have learned way more from this one thread than i have ever learned in my 20 years of prepping.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Karen said:


> With regards to the relevance, that's the point some of us are trying to make that I think most are misunderstanding. It's _all about _the 'relevance'! :grin:
> 
> The amount of relevance to the original question depends on a huge number of factors; each of us is going to have a different amount of factors though. There is no one-size-fits-all. It is relevant to us all because no man is an island, but how much relevance or how we will be effect is totally different; therefore, our reaction to the questions at hand will be different.


What Karen said.

.


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## FreeRanger (Jul 20, 2005)

Karen said:


> Our community has been hit with everything else the rest of the world has experienced; wars, natural disasters, forest fires, severe winters, drought, political interferences, the great depression, health issues (polio and TB were especially hard hit here), etc. We've always came through because of commitment and responsibility to each other.
> 
> We exchange plants and clothes, barter for goods, plow fields in exchange for some hay in the winter, raise a cow for someone less fortunate, raise a barn that was burned down, help an old lady fix up her house, take in a family who lost everything in a fire, etc. You see, the thing is, there's no scorecards being kept. People here do because they believe we have the moral obligation to do so. It's simply our responsibility to take of our land and all of God's creatures -- especially mankind.


I don't think there are too many "zombies sitting back and being comfortable." Yes there are a some who are taking advantage of the system. They are easy to see. 

However, the real problem is Americans are not demanding better living for ALL. Note that the rich haven't been hit by the recent bad times. While the middleclass, disabled, elderly, and low intellegent people have been fighting to lower the standard of living amoung themselves. Foolish and short sighted.

There are too many zombies that are not stepping forward to help those around them. There are too many zombies that are greedy and desire to be financially wealthy. Too many people who say I worked hard for the material goods that I have, YOU can't share in my success!

*Just saying, back on the original topic:*Yes the ZOMBIES are all around us. Your neighbor shouldn't get to the point where they need to kill you to have food/shelter for their family, you should have already offered to help them up .... way before they become envious and angry. Life is better when you are sharing, not when you are alone and hidding.

I also think too many people are afraid of shaming their wealthy neighbors/relatives. Does your boss or owner of the company really need two homes/ four cars/etc???? Clearly many leaders in America have no shame.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

painterswife said:


> So argue that but allow me to argue my point. I am not writing off your opinion. I am just going to go about it a different way.


I did argue that. My first post directed at you;



> It's not a matter of "deserve".
> 
> You can't save everyone. People are sufferring in the world today. Community working together for the "as rich and as wonderful " life isn't working now to meet your standards.
> 
> ...


You turned my post into something else. "Sending people into their graves" comes to mind.

If your point was to make my position seem barbaric while your position of simply "weeding out" people was a humanitarian effort, I think you made it already.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Well, Survival and Emergency Prep people, see what I mean.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

> Just saying, back on the original topic:Yes the ZOMBIES are all around us. Your neighbor shouldn't get to the point where they need to kill you to have food/shelter for their family, you should have already offered to help them up .... way before they become envious and angry. Life is better when you are sharing, not when you are alone and hidding.
> 
> I* also think too many people are afraid of shaming their wealthy neighbors/relatives. Does your boss or owner of the company really need two homes/ four cars/etc???? Clearly many leaders in America have no shame*.


Prime example of others have too much, so some are entitled to it.
The very antithisis of this forum.

And the bolded is more suitable to the Political forum than here.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

If i thought for one minute people would return the favor i would help alot of people. But since i am the keeper of the kitchen I am responsible to my family first.
How could i tell my family who worked for the food, "no" I gave it to our neighbor. And that neighbor has more than we do already. that is the way it is in this country now. We cann't give the shirt off our backs because people feel angry or envious.
We are dealing with people in this country who go to the food bank and complain about what they get. i cann't help them.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

@freeranger 

Has anyone lost their home in your area/city/county since youve owned a home?? If so do they live with you?? 

I share when I can, always have, but I simply cant help everyone around me in need NOW let alone if society started unraveling to some degree. Id be hard pressed to take care of me and my own let alone everyone else..

What do I do? Practical real world advice please!! soil is poor here, even expanding a garden and waiting for a POSSIBLE future harvest isnt exactly easy, you pretty much have to grow everything in soil you build or bring in, it doesnt happen in a season unless you have a large area to gather biomass from. 

I have pretty good knowledge of local wild edibles, and Id share such knowledge freely of course.. Im really not sure what else I could do??? seeds? We have little extra NOW... let alone if things unraveled.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

silverseeds said:


> @freeranger
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe that is your contribution. Your knowledge and your labor. Maybe you would be able to work with a group that had good land and share that bounty. Maybe an older couple that can't work the land anymore shares their soil and you share the garden.

You have more to offer than you think.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

silverseeds said:


> @freeranger
> 
> Has anyone lost their home in your area/city/county since youve owned a home?? If so do they live with you??
> 
> ...


Have you thought of Bio-Intensive gardening? Maybe a few rabbits or chickens for manure for the garden?
I wonder how much land you would need for 2 families.


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

FreeRanger said:


> I don't think there are too many "zombies sitting back and being comfortable." Yes there are a some who are taking advantage of the system. They are easy to see.
> 
> However, the real problem is Americans are not demanding better living for ALL. Note that the rich haven't been hit by the recent bad times. While the middleclass, disabled, elderly, and low intellegent people have been fighting to lower the standard of living amoung themselves. Foolish and short sighted.
> 
> ...


And this perception of entitlement is what is wrong with our country today.
Where, exactly, are YOU in the bolded sentence above? :stars:

No sense of personal responsibility. None.

"Gimme, gimme, gimme.... I want what's yours because I'm to (fill in blank) to strive to attain it for myself."

Absolutely sickening!


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## FreeRanger (Jul 20, 2005)

I never said &#8220;some are entitled to&#8221; other&#8217;s peoples material goods. I have said many humans are not capable of surviving on their &#8220;own.&#8221; 

I thought the practical side of the S&EP forum has a lot more to do with surviving natural disasters and emergency preparedness for natural disasters? Not manmade ones from greedy people allowing others in the community to suffer. Hence the thread was about killing to stay alive. 

What&#8217;s up with attacking me because I haven&#8217;t &#8220;opened&#8221; my home to a neighbor in need? Clearly, you don&#8217;t know me. You have no idea what activities I do to help my fellow man. Are you taking adults with disabilities fishing this Saturday morning? Are you lending your very used travel trailer to the local group home so that they may experience camping this summer? Do you grow 4 times as much as your family needs, only to give it away? Get a clue! My survival plan is to make as many friends as possible.

If you think S&EP is all about getting ready for mankind to feed on its self, then I think you are delusional. I have the faith that humans (Americans) will step forward to stop the violence before it ever gets that bad (at least where I live in Wisconsin). Yes there may be pockets of people going nuts, but on the whole, I still have hope. Before you jump to the conclusion that I am a bleeding democrat, I am a long time libertarian (small L) with fiscal conservative and socially liberal tendencies. 

If you don&#8217;t think WTSHTF there will be politics involved, that&#8217;s your opinion. Go ahead and lock me out of the discussion. This thread was never about S&EP, it was the right to kill or be killed.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

painterswife said:


> I guess if you have to ask that question you do not have that kind of friendships and community.
> 
> I have lived in quite a few places. I have always have had relationships with people who did things because it was right not because they expected something in return. This is nothing new to me. City or country.


I have to ask the question because I do not know you like I do others on this forum, nor do you know me. Your answer tells me all I need to know about you and which classification column you belong during the human pre-sort.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Correction - this thread has always TRIED to be about letting S&EP know that survival is now, due to folks that are willing to kill to take what you have.

The give and they won't hurt you folks are trying to make this forum into pollyanna land.

Yes, we try to be practical ready and survive, but there is an element of zombies that are out there now, and will try to take and are willing to KILL.

The thread has been about that, not all this "oh just do more and share" - 

But, there has been a very serious attempt to turn anyone that is willing to protect what they have earned into selfish, etc.

Well, get over it, if you want to make and share fine. Most of us do here also, but we are not going to turn a pollyanna eye to those that will come to take more than you want to give.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

Look at the threads about Illinois, If you don't think things are getting that bad.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

FreeRanger said:


> I never said âsome are entitled toâ otherâs peoples material goods. I have said many humans are not capable of surviving on their âown.â
> 
> I thought the practical side of the S&EP forum has a lot more to do with surviving natural disasters and emergency preparedness for natural disasters? Not manmade ones from greedy people allowing others in the community to suffer. Hence the thread was about killing to stay alive.
> 
> ...


Part of this seems to be to me, part to another poster. I will respond to the parts that seem to relate to my post directed at you... Forgive me if im wrong.

I certainly never attacked you because you havent opened your home. I asked you if you did. I pointed out the obvious that society has people falling through the cracks now, let alone if things unravel. Im not a bad guy because I realize I cant feed the world. Id be hard pressed to reliably feed my family. 

I dont think S&EP is solely to survive mankind feeding on itself, but it does indeed often feed on itself when times are tough. (sometimes literally) Heck it does when times are good. Im certainly not thinking things will devolve to such poor conditions, but I do think we are facing long term issues that from a historical context often relate to society resets. (often because of the same mentality some have displayed in this thread) 

I have faith in humanity as well, doesnt mean I have the ability to ensure everyone I meet is taken care of. That would be cool if I could do that. I would if it was possible. Best I can do is help people help themselves. 

Neither person you seem to be replying to said anything about whether or not politics would be involved post shtf... As for what you think the thread was about, I interpreted the thread to be more about those who think it is their "right" to take what is anothers, and the need to be aware of this potential...


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## FreeRanger (Jul 20, 2005)

I never said &#8220;give me&#8221;, I said &#8220;share.&#8221; Why are people so unwilling to share? Why are people so hung up on complaining about the few people who I agree are low life&#8217;s scamming the system? I have relatives (by marriage) that are part of the problem you describe. My SO and I tell them straight to their face that we don't like their behavior and find it unacceptable.

You assume, I don't work forty hours a week at a day job? You assume I don't strive to produce food on my farm? You assume that people with disabilities don't want to work? You assume elderly have family to take care of them? You assume all parents are able to take care of the children God gave them? What is that expression about the word assume?

I have a strong sense of personal responsibility. I take great care in myself and my family. My good fortune allows me to share my wealthy freely with others.

I have been knocked down more than once, drunk driver crushed my entire left-side, I have been eligible for SSI due to a health problem (virus attacked my heart, I had an LVAD) I have been asked by the state to retire on disability, I have lived with chronic pain for over three decades. Every time I have said no I am not going to give up, I am going to recover and be productive again. I have seen both sides, the good and the bad. I am suggesting here that you try seeing the good.


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## FreeRanger (Jul 20, 2005)

I don't live in pollyanna, nor do I live in fear. Yes, I am preparing just like everyone else here. I have guns to protect myself and family. I have limited supplies to make thru a minor SHTF event. 

I travel to IL frequently, I am a flatlander by birth, cheesehead by choice. I spent a recent family party/picnic in the "projects" of a major IL city. No zombies were in sight. Things are getting "that bad" because the middle class is allowing the wealthy to dominate the distribution of resources. Example, lowering wages of union members, because their benefits are "better" than "mine." Sorry I went political again. Done for the day here.........


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

Isn't that what we are talking about here a redistribution of resources?
For one batch of people it is bad to redistribute, but for others it is good.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

FreeRanger said:


> I never said âgive meâ, I said âshare.â Why are people so unwilling to share? Why are people so hung up on complaining about the few people who I agree are low lifeâs scamming the system? I have relatives (by marriage) that are part of the problem you describe. My SO and I tell them straight to their face that we don't like their behavior and find it unacceptable.
> 
> You assume, I don't work forty hours a week at a day job? You assume I don't strive to produce food on my farm? You assume that people with disabilities don't want to work? You assume elderly have family to take care of them? You assume all parents are able to take care of the children God gave them? What is that expression about the word assume?
> 
> ...


I agree, it is about wanting to share, not expecting or demanding it. It is not about profiting from someone else but surviving together in the hard times. I don't want anything from anyone who thinks I am putting them out, nor do I want to give anything to anyone who thinks they are owed it. I do want to work as a team with people that have a common goal in times of strife.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

> My survival plan is to make as many friends as possible.


That's pretty much what I'm doing too, FreeRanger, few are friend material, most are assets. A state emergency preparedness thing teaches a "map your neighborhood" strategy where you learn who your neighbors are, their special needs AND their usable skills and assets.

Now you go knocking on their doors doing an official survey like the state plan says, it ain't gonna go over too well. You ain't ever gonna learn anything and you ain't gonna make any friends. There's a good chance a person would get run out of the area after being threatened.

If you're going to survive around people, you better hone your people skills, Folks. If you don't have people skills, you'd have a better chance at survival being unprotected with Sourdough's Grizzlies.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

So what i am gettin from some these last few posts is that survival is dependent on ones emotional and people skills. This is what has been wrong for the last 60 years and its accomplished nothing. And I'm not against having friends. but its a wonderfully emotional photo when you are all huddled together starving to death

We.ve seen how that works when parents try and be friends with their kids instead of parents

If Iam wrong please explain


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

I think Angie should chime in her and tell us what she learned in the tornado a couple years back when they rebuilt the town


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## longshot38 (Dec 19, 2006)

let me offer a different perspective. many years ago, 1941 to be exact a man died of TB in a small isolated community on the coast of Newfoundland, he left behind a young pregnant wife and a baby girl. the community came together through a fraternal society that was strong body in the community called the Society of United Fisherman; the men of the community made sure she had wood cut for the fire, only wood heat and cooking back then, no electricity. they also made sure there was vegetables and fish/meat for them and when the baby was born, a boy the community made sure they had the basics, no luxury for sure. not long after the boy was born the woman remarried to a fisherman from the town and went on to have other children, lost some to sickness ( the little girl from her first marriage). *But that was a whole community coming together to help one family, what some here and in society today are advocating is for one or two families to provide for the whole community. it cant work that way, the 1% cant pamper the 99% and one or two preppers cant take care of the golden hoard that is "your" town.* 

This is a true story,that baby boy is my Dad.

dean


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

Time for time to check out of this thread.

All I can say is, everyone that has read the thread has no excuse.

Those that heed the warnings and act accordingly will have a better shot at getting through SHTF.

It was said that there is no proof that taking folks in will end badly. I reccomend watching the news. If you don't see proof of the need for vigilence and care when dealing with desperate folks, I don't really know that you can learn anything from the folks here.

The plain and simple truth is that when deciding on how your going to address desperate people, there should be one thought going through your head. Am I going to bet my life and the life of my family that this person/s will not harm us?

I know lots of people I like quite well. I have very few friends. I require more than a smile to consider someone a friend. I require that they have gone through some chit with me. Then I know if they are a friend on a permanant basis.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

longshot38 said:


> .... But that was a whole community coming together to help one family, *what some here* and in society today *are advocating is for one or two families to provide for the whole community.* it cant work that way, the 1% cant pamper the 99% and one or two preppers cant take care of the golden hoard that is "your" town.


Where are you getting that idea from? I have not seen one single person posting here advocating that one or two families should be providing for their whole community. 

An exaggeration like that is going to cause even more resentment and contempt than what has already been displayed in this topic.

.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

The end of our world as we know it will not happen.

Circumstances might change, but we will carry our view of the world with us.

If someone is more of a go-it-alone type of person, that person will bring that to any situation.

If someone is more of a reach-out-to-others type of person, that will also continue during events that shake up normal life.

And there are 255 shades of gray between those two poles.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

TNHermit said:


> So what i am gettin from some these last few posts is that survival is dependent on ones emotional and people skills. This is what has been wrong for the last 60 years and its accomplished nothing. And I'm not against having friends. but its a wonderfully emotional photo when you are all huddled together starving to death
> 
> We.ve seen how that works when parents try and be friends with their kids instead of parents
> 
> If Iam wrong please explain


You still gotta prep and have survival skills, but unless you're in Alaska and your only neighbors are Sourdough's Grizzlies, you better have some darn good people skills to keep your preps and stay alive and comfortable.


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## longshot38 (Dec 19, 2006)

naturelover said:


> Where are you getting that idea from? I have not seen one single person posting here advocating that one or two families should be providing for their whole community.
> 
> An exaggeration like that is going to cause even more resentment and contempt than what has already been displayed in this topic.
> 
> .


well, lets see. there has been a referral to why does a boss have 2 homes and four cars and that is not "fair" there has been reference to "share" your preps before someone get all resentful and envious. there has been reference to "shaming" those who have worked hard and done well. that's what I'm talking about its not an "exaggeration" i and any who would care to be aware have been seeing and hearing for a couple of years. the 1%ers take from the 99%, wealth should be "redistributed" to be "fair"; or its not fair for one person to have "too much"; i deserve to have __________ because it's my "human right" that i should have _______ given to me because i don't want to work for it. 

the bottom line is a person invests time, sweat, money, and a large part of their life into gaining a certain standard of living or position in society, or if horror of horrors they were fortunate enough to be born with resources that your parents or grandparents worked hard for that someone, self appointed or worst yet government appointed should decide what is fair and who should have what is communism and we all know how that worked out for the u.s.s.r. and other such systems of governance. If i work for it, it's mine and i decide who gets some of my stuff or if they do.

dean


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2012)

naturelover said:


> Where are you getting that idea from? I have not seen one single person posting here advocating that one or two families should be providing for their whole community.
> 
> An exaggeration like that is going to cause even more resentment and contempt than what has already been displayed in this topic.
> 
> .


Don't want to argue, but have you compared the number of preppers to non preppers? I would be curious if they are even close.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Longshot38, thanks for the clarification. I think that offers a better explanation than saying some are advocating that 1 or 2 families should be providing for their whole community.

.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Laura said:


> You still gotta prep and have survival skills, but unless you're in Alaska and your only neighbors are Sourdough's Grizzlies, you better have some darn good people skills to keep your preps and stay alive and comfortable.


I have been living right here in TN by myself, taking care of myself, I do not use people skills to do that, I use hard work, responsibility and fight like hell


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

veggiecanner said:


> Don't want to argue, but have you compared the number of preppers to non preppers? I would be curious if they are even close.


I don't believe that is an argumentative question, I think it's an interesting question. Are you talking about preppers in the USA? I've never considered doing a comparison and I don't think anybody knows the true number of preppers because so many long-time preppers are secretive, they keep their preps hidden, keep their mouthes shut about their prepping activities and most definitely don't talk about it online. 

However, I do know that the numbers of people recently starting to take an interest in prepping is certainly increasing. I think it was last year, somebody posted links here on the forum to some news articles about the sudden increase in preppers in the past 2 or 3 years and how many businesses who sell survivalism and prep items are experiencing a booming increase in sales. Some of the business owners said they were having a hard time keeping up with the sudden demand in prep items. I also know that there's been an increase in internet forums and blog sites about survivalism and prepping. There's many more online sites now than there was 4 years ago.

But personally I don't think anyone will ever know what the proportion of preppers vs. non-preppers there really is until after the SHTF. 

.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Check it out, it's news about increase in preppers. Just click on the link: Google

.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Prepping at this time makes good news stories but i would bet big money that you cant even get to 5%, Easy way to survey. Pay attention in you town. Check out people grocery carts. Only certain staple and Hostess products last a long time Frozen fish sticks and pot pies not so much


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2012)

Ok, now figure out how many have more than the goverments 7 days worth of supplies, and how many would step up and help at all.
Compare that to the ones who don't prep at all. I don't think they compare at all.
Once you figure it out people *are* asking just a few preppers to help many people. it's not always what people say that is important.
Once they get past the idea that we just cann't they will be better off.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

TNHermit said:


> I have been living right here in TN by myself, taking care of myself, I do not use people skills to do that, I use hard work, responsibility and fight like hell


During our good times. You'll need all that later, too, only a lot more. Good luck sleeping. 

Ever hear of adrenaline depletion? It sucks and can be deadly if endured on a long-term basis.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Laura said:


> During our good times. You'll need all that later, too, only a lot more. Good luck sleeping.
> 
> Ever hear of adrenaline depletion? It sucks and can be deadly if endured on a long-term basis.


Its obvious you haven't spent anytime in the hills of TN. I came here for a reason. My neighbors and I rarely talk. But he would take out anyone on my property if I wasn't here. I haven't locked a door in 12 years . I moved here for a reason. Neighbors aren't close and no one has moved in or out in at leat 10 years unless they were dead. To that part I can tell you I sleep just fine.


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## longshot38 (Dec 19, 2006)

naturelover said:


> Longshot38, thanks for the clarification. I think that offers a better explanation than saying some are advocating that 1 or 2 families should be providing for their whole community.
> 
> .


actually i was pretty clear, several people in this thread have advocated that those who have, those who prep should/must share with those who don't/have not. my history illustrates how charity is supposed to work, the many help the few who are in truly in need, my grand ma would have starved and my dad died but if only a few are responsible the many, and most have not prepared every one loses. my family comes first. fullstop.


dean.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

TNHermit said:


> Its obvious you haven't spent anytime in the hills of TN. I came here for a reason. My neighbors and I rarely talk. But he would take out anyone on my property if I wasn't here. I haven't locked a door in 12 years . I moved here for a reason. Neighbors aren't close and no one has moved in or out in at leat 10 years unless they were dead. To that part I can tell you I sleep just fine.


Soooo....when things get bad, you gonna lock your door?

No, I haven't been east of the Mississippi. The map makes it appear too crowded back there. I did get an offer to be a TN Bunker Babe once, but it wasn't my thing.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Laura said:


> Soooo....when things get bad, you gonna lock your door?
> 
> No, I haven't been east of the Mississippi. The map makes it appear too crowded back there. I did get an offer to be a TN Bunker Babe once, but it wasn't my thing.


Why cause extra damage. Friend has sign on windows that say " there is nothing in here worth dying for". Both he and wife carry concealed. another has one at the end of the drive that says " If you can read this I can take you out"

I came here from 12 years living in the mountains at Leadville Colorado.


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## catknit (Feb 6, 2012)

Hmmm, this whole thread is a hot mess but to weigh in on the side of "there are more good people out there bad bad [ie zombies]" I've lived in areas abroad with famine, martial law, crazy hoodlum gangs, no electricity, corrupt government officials, and a whole lot more [and no, I'm not editorializing about the US].

In the end, in even horrible conditions, for the most part communities do come together. The areas I've lived in [as well as my husband prior to his immigration to this country] have been strife ridden and down right horrible since 1989. 

They "prep" there - for lack of a better term. Rice is purchased by the quintal [100 kilos at a time]. Everyone has a kitchen garden. There is canning, dried produce, family chickens/goats. There is an army lockdown in the area [has been since '89] and UN on site too - but for the average family, short of typical out and about harrasment by the armed forces - day to day life is very "normal" - except, you know, when there are shoot on site curfews that last all day. Yes, there are those with entitlement issues, there are gangs of kids begging on the street corners for food, whole families that show up at the gate with hands out - there is a holy host of stuff going down. But, if we have a zillion tomatoes in our garden, they are shared. If the neighbor's trellis of squash comes over the compound wall, we're invited to pick our fill and share with the others in the colony. This isn't just some people in the community - it's most of the people in the community.

Thankfully, the last 6+ months there have been quite nice, there's been a draw down in the army, street bunkers have been removed, and logistic issues to get food delivered have been resolved [for now] - but usually, something stupid happens and there are street riots, general strikes, etc etc etc that make the 6 month respite end. I figure if something happened here [in the US], the outcome would be similar - fits and starts while a place is rebuilding most likely with heavy military involvement.

My point, I've lived in that mayhem - never thought I'd be there and obviously there was a "way out" [ie moving] which I'm sure some people will jump on this post and say "but, but, but with an emp the world as we know it stops and there is no way out". I agree. But, what if that doesn't happen in my lifetime? What if the Yellowstone Caldera blows instead? What if there is a nuclear war? What if, what if, what if....

I can state we have "stuff" in storage for a nice long while. But come year 3 and a hail storm knocks out my garden and all my neighbors' gardens? Or, we make it through some weird geo-political craziness and there's an earthquake that levels the whole area? People who prep and train and read and study can get stuck with absolutely intolerable and miserable circumstances - and die. That's what I've seen. 

You can drive yourself insane with the possibilities...It's easy to get sucked into every single possible scenario and want to cover your bases, but I refuse to be an 80 year old with a houseful of rice and lentils and not have seen the world, or have scared any child of mine not to attend a specific university, or move to a certain state, or for that matter sit on my front porch, shot gun in hand eyeing each person that goes by [even if I were living in the same conditions as my inlaws]. 

But, to each their own....


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

TNHermit said:


> Why cause extra damage. Friend has sign on windows that say " there is nothing in here worth dying for". Both he and wife carry concealed. another has one at the end of the drive that says " If you can read this I can take you out"
> 
> I came here from 12 years living in the mountains at Leadville Colorado.


Okay. In your area you only have those silly little black bears, nothing like Sourdough's Grizzlies.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

catknit said:


> Hmmm, this whole thread is a hot mess but to weigh in on the side of "there are more good people out there than bad [ie zombies]" I've lived in areas abroad with famine, martial law, crazy hoodlum gangs, no electricity, corrupt government officials, and a whole lot more [and no, I'm not editorializing about the US].
> 
> In the end, in even horrible conditions, for the most part communities do come together. The areas I've lived in [as well as my husband prior to his immigration to this country] have been strife ridden and down right horrible since 1989 ........


Great post catknit, thanks for your perspective based in real BTDT mayhem experience.

.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Y'all realize, of course, that when the power grid goes down, the Internet is going to fail; and even the most self-sufficient folks will have to leave their bunkers occasionally and hike across broad stretches of open territory in order to find other people with which to argue.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

catknit - what happens to thieves that use force to take what they think they want/entitled to in your experience in your BTDT? You seem to gloss over that, and it may take many getting along to make that lovely sharing community, but what happened to the one or two bad apples?

And this is a Prep forum, which so many are trying to make it not be.
And that does include living, but being ready to continue in difficult circumstances. Including being ready to take care of thieves and killers.
and while a lot of people are trying to turn this into share and feel good, while glossing over the whole point of the start of this thread. It's a very nice thread highjack.

It never has been about community or not, it's always been about what are you going to do to be ready for a thief or murder (take and kill) that was shown to be a mindset already on HT.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Oggie said:


> Y'all realize, of course, that when the power grid goes down, the Internet is going to fail; and even the most self-sufficient folks will have to leave their bunkers occasionally and hike across broad stretches of open territory in order to find other people with which to argue.


yes it is well known, and no they will not have to go anywhere from home if they're prepared. so your poke does not work.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Arguing with themselves is going to get pretty old, pretty fast.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Oggie said:


> Arguing with themselves is going to get pretty old, pretty fast.


not nearly as bad as this thread. 
and Ham radio and they won't be arguing - they'll be making sure things work. And warning each other of roaming unknown groups, and even planning some parties.

Of course, bad guys may have portable radios and may even listen to find which houses may have less chance of being notice when people are away; or they may make up false messages, to lure people away.

So apparently you'd not thought out the ramifications of what you are trying to stir up.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Since the point has been made; the thread has been attempted highjacked a number of times; the premise of the thread has been ignored and made fun of..... we've been around the block enough.


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