# ABSOLUTELY devastated: pigeon fever diagnosed



## Jcran (Jan 4, 2006)

I've got three horses that have been on the 8 1/2 acres I rent, since August 29th. I haven't trailered them anywhere, etc. They get equi-spot fly repellent about every 4 weeks. Pigeon fever is a total epidemic in our county, over 50 cases so far this year. I was smug at my daughter's last 4-H meeting. "My animals are in quarantine simply because we don't trailer them to shows, barns, etc." Well, day before yesterday when I went to feed, the POA had a hole in the point of her shoulder. I assumed it was a puncture injury and raced home to get the meds. Brought back a bucket of sudsy betadine and went to work scrubbing it. Then hair around the hole started coming off and I realized, OH *&%, that is an ABSCESS! I immediately called the vet. She couldn't come out until today and when she did she confirmed my worst fears...it's pigeon fever. She also palpated the ponies and the mare and the two ponies are pregnant, due in two months. The mare is open, thank god. She said the pony may impart some level of immunity to the foal. I am flushing the abscess with betadine. It looks as if there may be another lump on the opposite shoulder. So much for smug...:Bawling:


----------



## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

I'm not familiar with pigeon fever, is it caused by droppings?


----------



## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Dixy, it's called pigeon fever because the abscesses are often on the chest and cause swelling there.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this Joan


----------



## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

I am not familiar with it either. I take it that it is curable, right? I realize abscesses are a problem and a major pain, probably expensive with vet bills, but they are curable, right? I worry about things that cannot be cured. I wouldn't be happy with my horse having anything, but it beat EPM, Potomac fever, etc. by a longshot. 

Is there anyway to prevent the condition? How is it transmitted?


----------



## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

isnt this the disease some may know as CL in goats?


----------



## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

lasergrl said:


> isnt this the disease some may know as CL in goats?


That's what I was thinking. I know that CL can spread to horses and cows and I think it's called the same thing in cows but they get the abscesses around their feet I think, or something like that.


----------



## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

I'm sorry. I'm not sure what pigeon favor really entails in horses, but it's counterpart in goats, CL is devastating and extremely contagious, including to humans.

If you have a barn that has been on your property for a long time and at ANY time housed an animal with this bacteria, or have had goats or sheep on your property in the last 7 years, this could be the source. 

I'm hoping it's not as bad in horses? I know it's not as bad in humans, it can actually be cured with antibiotics.


----------



## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Pigeon fever is the same bacteria as CL- coryne psuedotuberculosis but when my goat had it, the vet told me that it seems to be not transmitted to horses. The horse variety does not seem to cause the same level of harm as it does in goats. It can cause death in horses in an internal abscess forms in a critical place but it does seem self-limiting and does not commonly result in death. I heard that flys can spread it from one horse to another.
It has been a few years since I did any research on it and I would certianly like to know if anyone has more current info on it as I live in tha same county as JCran.


----------



## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

I would never trust a goat won't give it to a horse. It's the same bacteria, the goats sheds the bacteria from the abcess, a horse gets it on them.... I bet he gets it. 

Some say they can get it from a fly. Would probably be somewhat far fetched I would think, but yea possible. I think the fly would have to land on the puss, and then on another animal, and probably in a fairly short amount of time.


----------



## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Am very sorry you have to deal with this. Its messy and nasty...
But it normally heals with no issues.


----------



## Jcran (Jan 4, 2006)

Our vet told me that this WON'T spread to goats, but we are taking NO chances. The horses are on 8 1/2 acres, about .4 mile down the road from the house. We wear different shoes when we go into the pasture, spray them with bleach/water before we put them back into the car and change clothing each time we return home, dropping the clothes straight into the wash. I am feeling paranoid right now. I need to retest my goats as its been almost a year, but over the past three years now, our goats have been negative for CL/CAE. I don't want to put that into jeopardy. We were able to isolate the pony in her own small pasture until she heals. We are fly spraying the others but we'll see; I hope no transmission occurred. I told the neighbors across the street and the new neighbors next to the pasture. The next door folks were very unconcerned and told me that they had it last year in a gelding of theirs (they just moved in about mid October). Would they have been able to transmit it? Their animals are across the fence from mine. They didn't say they were CURRENTLY fighting it.


----------



## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Oh yes, definitely take all precautions with the goats. They do not get better like horses do.

Yes, they could have gotten it from the neighbors. May have gotten it on a shared wooden fence maybe?


----------



## Jcran (Jan 4, 2006)

Well, when the neighbors moved in, they put up a strand of hot wire 4 feet back from the fenceline because the fence is kind of crummy and they said they didn't want their horses to fight through the fence. So their horses can't actually access the fence. That being said, one of their horses DID manage to come through a few times to the "aisle along the fence that the hotwire created. No fighting issues or anything, but there was THAT access. However, there are other folks with horses on this lane who come and go quite a bit. I AM going to put out a one page note to all the horse neighbors letting them know that pigeon fever is on our road. I think at this time of year, people don't tend to fly spray etc. I hope this will help. The vet said there were horses in really remote areas that HAD NOT been trailered anywhere that came down with it. I just don't know.

One thing I wanted to add is that this POA had really weepy eyes at one point and the flies were really bugging her. We kept a fly mask on her a lot. I don't wonder if the flies could have transmitted the disease through bugging her weepy eyes. I meant to have the vet check her for moon blindness but was so thrown by the whole pigeon fever thing that I didn't. I'll have her back out to check her progress in a few weeks and I'll have her check then.


----------



## golden (Aug 16, 2008)

We had an outbreak of pigeon fever at out barn this year. My mare developed a quarter-sized absess in the girth area but was fine otherwise. One of the geldings on the property developed absesses on his sheath that took quite some time to heal. Our vet said it is thought to spread through flies, so I'm not real sure that you could have prevented it if you have other horses anywhere near yours. There are several pastures where I board and we had outbreaks in every pasture - these horses rarely have contact with outside horses. I know it doesn't help but I thought I'd throw my two cents out there. Your girls should heal up soon and hopefully with no complications.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

The bacterium is supposed to be prevalent in the soil in the western states, particularly in CA.


----------



## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Looking at the internet- Colorado has had quite a large outbreak as has Kentucky. People being what they are, it is hard to control because some will just not treat and isolate their horses.
My nextdoor neighbor summers his horse in a small paddock right opposite my girls and lets the manure pile up for 7 months of the year. Before he came I did not have fly problems- now I have fly traps everywhere. So I guess it's just a matter of time til they are exposed- darn it.


----------



## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Might try those fly predators. I think I'm going to get some next year. With 13 goats, a cow, 2 horses, chickens and guineas, they were bad this year.


----------



## 1sttimemom (Mar 1, 2005)

We are in Colorado. A few yrs ago we had very bad outbreaks of it. A couple of my horses got it, 1 mare & her suckling filly. The filly got 1 abcess. The mare had several including a huge one on her bag. There is almost no way to prevent this disease as it's spread by flies. I drained and cleaned the abcesses with betadine, flsuhed out the pockets well and kept them open. If they close over they will just fill back up with puss. It is messy and gross, but generally most horses will heal without issues. Most vets do not even recommend antibiotics unless the horse is extremely bad or has other compromising health issues. I did try my best to clean up any draining from the corrals after lancing an abcess. Basically I just poured some bleach over the puss on the ground and put it in garbage bag with a shovel. However, as the horse is constantly draining there is really no way to keep all the goop away from bugs. I suppose if you had a totally screened off barn?? I don't know about other livestock, but I did wear gloves & wash after, etc. I am a nurse so just took general precautions as such.


----------



## Jcran (Jan 4, 2006)

I am also going to buy the monthly delivery of fly predators; I think it was either Premier or Valley Vet that advertised it. The mare is doing well and I am flushing out the abscess each day with betadine. I have noticed very little pus since the first day we found her with it. We are scrubbing around the opening with betadine soaked paper towels after each treatment and throwing them away. I am trying to treat her in the same spot along the fence each day so that we can monitor any exudate. However, she moves around freely in her pasture the rest of the time, so who knows if that's doing any good. Anyhow, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that no one else gets it. I made a flier and put it in everyone in the neighborhood's mailboxes. I want folks to take any precautions they need.


----------



## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Jcran said:


> I am also going to buy the monthly delivery of fly predators; I think it was either Premier or Valley Vet that advertised it. The mare is doing well and I am flushing out the abscess each day with betadine. I have noticed very little pus since the first day we found her with it. We are scrubbing around the opening with betadine soaked paper towels after each treatment and throwing them away. I am trying to treat her in the same spot along the fence each day so that we can monitor any exudate. However, she moves around freely in her pasture the rest of the time, so who knows if that's doing any good. Anyhow, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that no one else gets it. I made a flier and put it in everyone in the neighborhood's mailboxes. I want folks to take any precautions they need.


If you order Spaulding labs fly predators through me I make a little money 

PM me if you're interested.


----------



## GingerN (Apr 24, 2007)

Jcran said:


> Well, when the neighbors moved in, they put up a strand of hot wire 4 feet back from the fenceline because the fence is kind of crummy and they said they didn't want their horses to fight through the fence. So their horses can't actually access the fence. That being said, one of their horses DID manage to come through a few times to the "aisle along the fence that the hotwire created. No fighting issues or anything, but there was THAT access. However, there are other folks with horses on this lane who come and go quite a bit. I AM going to put out a one page note to all the horse neighbors letting them know that pigeon fever is on our road. I think at this time of year, people don't tend to fly spray etc. I hope this will help. The vet said there were horses in really remote areas that HAD NOT been trailered anywhere that came down with it. I just don't know.
> 
> One thing I wanted to add is that this POA had really weepy eyes at one point and the flies were really bugging her. We kept a fly mask on her a lot. I don't wonder if the flies could have transmitted the disease through bugging her weepy eyes. I meant to have the vet check her for moon blindness but was so thrown by the whole pigeon fever thing that I didn't. I'll have her back out to check her progress in a few weeks and I'll have her check then.


According to all the articles I just read on the disease (since I was not familiar with it), it can be transmitted by flies fairly easily.

Hope your critters all get better!


----------



## GingerN (Apr 24, 2007)

1sttimemom said:


> We are in Colorado. A few yrs ago we had very bad outbreaks of it. A couple of my horses got it, 1 mare & her suckling filly. The filly got 1 abcess. The mare had several including a huge one on her bag. There is almost no way to prevent this disease as it's spread by flies. I drained and cleaned the abcesses with betadine, flsuhed out the pockets well and kept them open. If they close over they will just fill back up with puss. It is messy and gross, but generally most horses will heal without issues. Most vets do not even recommend antibiotics unless the horse is extremely bad or has other compromising health issues. I did try my best to clean up any draining from the corrals after lancing an abcess. Basically I just poured some bleach over the puss on the ground and put it in garbage bag with a shovel. However, as the horse is constantly draining there is really no way to keep all the goop away from bugs. I suppose if you had a totally screened off barn?? I don't know about other livestock, but I did wear gloves & wash after, etc. I am a nurse so just took general precautions as such.


Since you have dealt with this and are a nurse, you would know this better than me. Would you be able to put a guaze pad over it (assuming you could get it to stay-whole nother issue) and keep it from leaking that way?


----------



## Jcran (Jan 4, 2006)

It is amazing how quickly this little mare has healed. The opening is almost closed up (it IS closed but I scrub it open every day) and its hard to get the syringe in to squirt the betadine solution. The tissue looks like its really granulated. The area is very clean and has that slightly pinched skin look that scabs form. No one, knock on wood, seems to be developing anything suspicious. I'm going over everyone carefully each day, though. Initially I thought she might be getting another bump on the opposite shoulder, but I think I was just panicking...nothing seems to be coming up. Paranoid still, though and keeping the other horses in the pasture two fences away. Thank god the weather is freezing and flies aren't really out.


----------

