# Kunekune



## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

I have noticed that outside the USA the Kunekune pig is a wonderful meat producer that feeds mostly on pasture grass. When I started looking into breeders here in the USA I discovered that they all classify the Kunekune as a pet. Is there any support in the USA for Kunekune pigs as meat? Can anyone recommend a breeder?


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## RogueAPBT (Nov 10, 2006)

I'm new to the board, and am interested in this subject, too. I've been looking at this breed myself, as a possible good pastured meat pig for our small place. I'm in WA state, and have yet to be able to track down a breeder. If I find anything, I'll pass it on.

Cheryl


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

As a New Zealander, which is where the Kune originates, I would pass them by. They do well on pasture but can get so fat you wouldn't believe it. Assuming you can control their weight gain, they take twice as long to get to porker weight i.e you would be looking at waiting 10 months to a year before killing.

I know people who swear by them as pork. I personally look at them and think yuk. 

Having said that, they do make fabulous pets and have the benefit of not rooting to the same degree as other pigs. Some do root and badly, the majority are happy to just eat grass and do the odd bit of rooting which is usually not of destructive proportions - although my sister didn't think that when her pet Kune rearranged her flower beds  

I believe they are very expensive in the States (cheap as muck here) so you might be better off considering one of the older breeds such as the Tamworth which is a good outdoor pig.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

There are ads in Hobby Farming magazine for the Kune...

Might pick up one of these mags and take a look...


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

Thanks, I'll check my copies of Hobby Farm and Mother Earth News now.


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

Checking on the ads in Hobby News (thanks ninny)-

The two Kunekune ads I found are for people I have already sent e-mails to this past weekend. Katie Rigby of Just Say Oinc already replied with a friendly response. She is on the New Zealand Board (and others) for Kunekunes and resides in Kansas, USA. She seems to have the largest herd in the USA but she is breeding them as pets (selectively breeding smaller stock) and has reservations about using them as pork. I have sent her a reply asking for additional info and maybe a recommendation for a Kunenune meat breeder if she is so inclined. One thing she mentioned is that the UK Assoc is raising Kunekunes for suasage but that their stock is based on a single heard. I am most interested in a USA breeder at a reasonable price (I've heard $1,500 here in the USA verses $50 in New Zealand.) I would consider importing if need be but this would be a big learning venture for me.

I have also sent an e-mail to several other Kunekune people like the lady in Mira Loma Ca but have not heard back from them yet (in all fairness it has only been two weekend days.) 

RogueAPBT - I have similar reasons for looking into this breed. 

Let me know if anyone turns anything up. :baby04:


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## RogueAPBT (Nov 10, 2006)

Well, I'm beginning to think it's hopeless for now. Maybe the thrill will wear off the pet trade eventually. :shrug: 

Okay, back to the breed search... 

Cheryl


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## mrmarshallb (Nov 30, 2006)

Hey Rogue I am in Washington State also and I was initially interested in the Kune as it can sustain itself on pasture. I was interested for meat production but looking into it, they are too small, not enough meat, take too long, and have too much fat to be economical. They might be useful in a 100 percent self sufficient situation on an island in the south pacific (Which is where they are from) but with so many other breeds I think the Kune is really only for having as a pet (and my "pets" have to pay their way, so I would never have a Kune)


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

There may be hope for us that want to further explore the Kunekune as a meat source and being raised on mostly grass in a pasture. Read this info from Oklahoma State University especially the last paragraph

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/swine/kunekune/index.htm 


The Kunekune pig developed into its present form in New Zealand, although the breed is of Asian origin as indicated by DNA analysis. During most of the period these pigs have been in New Zealand they were kept almost solely by Maori communities, and were to a large extent unknown by Europeans. It is believed they were introduced very early in the European period, probably by whalers or traders, in the early 1800s. A combined excursion in 1984, by Staglands Wildlife Reserve and Willowbank Wildlife Reserve, led to 18 animals being collected; these animals formed the basis of a captive breeding programme. Most of the Kunekune pigs found in New Zealand today are descended from that original 18. They are now widely spread throughout New Zealand, with an active society supporting them; in 2004 it was estimated that there were some 5000 animals in the country, both registered and unregistered. Kunekunes have also been exported to the United Kingdom, the United States, and as far as the European continent.

Kunekune pigs are relatively small and highly distinctive, characterized physically by a short-legged, dumpy build, pot tummy, short upturned nose, and a generally fat, roundabout appearance. (The Polynesian word âkunekuneâ simply means âplumpâ.) A unique feature of the kunekune are the pire pire (tassels) hanging from their lower jaw (about 4 cm long). But not all purebreds have tassels. Their legs are short and their bodies are short and round. The color range includes: Black, black and white, white, gold, tan and brown. Temperment-wise they are delightful, being placid, very friendly, and easy to maintain. They thrive on human company, and are extremely popular as pets.

The great value of this little pig is that it grazes and fattens on grass alone, needing to be fed only during the winter months in Southland. They like crushed or soaked grain, spuds or anything at all. Household scraps may, in fact, be all that is required in winter. Some Kunekunes root the ground in winter. Kunekunes make excellent lawnmowers for your orchard as they do not harm trees and shrubs. It is not recommended that these little pigs be kept in a sty and fattened on grain as they become too fat and are slower to mature. But they do need a small shed or a drum to shelter them from the wet and cold. Losses from pneumonia will occur if this not provided. Initially you may put some hay into their shed but they will soon make their own nest. 


Boars become fertile at 6-7 months. Gilts can get pregnant as early as 5 months but it is recommended that they should not be mated until they are at least one year old giving them time to grow. Infertility is rare but is sometimes caused by boars and sows being too fat. If a male and female are brought up together they may not mate until they have been separated for a couple of weeks and put back together again. Litter numbers vary considerably. The piglets require access to a heat lamp in colder weather for best results. Piglets can be weaned at six weeks and the sow mated again after about a week of weaning her piglets. 

Kunekunes have an excellent ratio of meat to fat. The nicest pork is that killed before a year old. Kunekunes are considered by many to be nicer eating than the faster grown commercial pig.


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## midkiffsjoy (Sep 29, 2005)

Rooting is not a BAD thing in pigs. The can be used to turn garden soil and pasture (if you have enough of them to do it). This would save MY back a lot of work and the tiller a lot of gas, so I can not IMAGINE why that would be considered a down side to pigs. KuneKunes are gonna have the same thing done to them in the US as the I pig (pbp). Used forEVER as meat breeds, grasped upon as a whim pet by people who expect them not to act like ....duh ...pigs. Look for them to be bred small till they have serious health issues. I've seen those ads. They have RARE BREED plastered all over them.....but they only sell nutered/spayed stock. hummmmmm. Breed conservation????? Wouldnt you have to ACTULLY BREED them for that???? shake head. whatever...... 

If you find some allowed to be used for their original purpose let me know!!! I was interested in them too, but knew there was no way short of importing that I could get them so I settled on pbps. Perfect size for small farms and EVERYWHERE as everyone has gotten BORED with their "designer" pig pet and is ditching them. Now to breed them BACK to standard.

GOOD LUCK!!!


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

MilkandHoney said:


> . . . the breed is of Asian origin as indicated by DNA analysis. . . . Kunekune pigs are relatively small and highly distinctive, characterized physically by a short-legged, dumpy build, pot tummy, short upturned nose, and a generally fat, roundabout appearance. . . . A unique feature of the kunekune are the pire pire (tassels) hanging from their lower jaw (about 4 cm long). But not all purebreds have tassels. Their legs are short and their bodies are short and round. The color range includes: Black, black and white, white, gold, tan and brown. Temperment-wise they are delightful, being placid, very friendly, and easy to maintain. They thrive on human company, and are extremely popular as pets.
> 
> It is not recommended that these little pigs be kept in a sty and fattened on grain as they become too fat and are slower to mature. But they do need a small shed or a drum to shelter them from the wet and cold.
> 
> Kunekunes have an excellent ratio of meat to fat. The nicest pork is that killed before a year old. Kunekunes are considered by many to be nicer eating than the faster grown commercial pig.


You know, except for the short back (read: "less loin"), and the gold, tan, brown colors, these sound JUST LIKE my potbelly pigs! They're probably a bit bigger, though. My pigs top out around 100 pounds in good condition.


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## DrRudugast (Dec 21, 2006)

If you are looking for a small hog for butching, you might want to check out the American Guinea Hog. They are about the same size as a Kune Kune, but are not being marketed for the pet trade. They are an american breed that is currently on the endangered list. Check out the Societies website http://www.guineahogassociation.homestead.com/ . Also check out the ALBC's information page about the breed: http://albc-usa.org/cpl/guinea.html


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

DrRudugast said:


> If you are looking for a small hog for butching, you might want to check out the American Guinea Hog. They are about the same size as a Kune Kune, but are not being marketed for the pet trade. They are an american breed that is currently on the endangered list. Check out the Societies website http://www.guineahogassociation.homestead.com/ . Also check out the ALBC's information page about the breed: http://albc-usa.org/cpl/guinea.html


We used to raise the guinea hogs. That was many years ago when people still rendered their own lard. They were a lard hog. Not a whole lot of good meat on them and they didn't have very large litters but it was possible to fatten them on what most pigs would starve on.
We raised hamps for meat and the guinea hogs for lard. Tried crossing them but the result wasn't that good for either purpose.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Pancho, that pretty well sums up the Kune - good lard pig, will live on the smell of an oily rag but basically is not much good as a meat producer. However, the Kune crossed with the Large White can produce good litters of meat growing piglets that grow to a good size in a reasonable time and without all the fat.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

The first kunekune I saw I thought it was one of the guinea hogs. Some of ours were even the same colors as them.


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

Been looking into the guinea hog as well. We really are looking for a meat pig that can do extremenly well on just pasture. The kune, from all reports, does just this. I am not sure about the guinea hog but do have a question about their meat worthingness as well as their feed requirements? 

If we can't hook up with a pig that pastures almost exclusively and will produce a fair amount of meat, we will probably go with the Red Wattle as our breed of choice. Any experience/comments on this breed would be helpful. 

We also might just try a few types before settling in...so if any one has any recommendation(s) on a meat pig that is on the smaller side and will do well on an almost exclusively pasture diet regardless of time to butcher we would appreciate hearing from you.


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

I must be partly mad :banana02: because despite the difficulties trying to locate a good solid breeder of meat Kunekune pigs in the USA, I still would like to give them a go. 

Here is the latest info I found on the British Kune Kune Society website which keeps me going:

What do Kune Kune pigs eat?
Kunes thrive on a diet of grass, fresh fruit and vegetables. They differ from commercial pigs in that they do not need high levels of protein. Kunes need a maximum of 16% protein, and by preference a little less. They also need much more fibre than commercial pigs. Kune Kune pigs live on grass and vegetables in summer, in autumn this can be supplemented with apples. In the winter when the grass loses its goodness 1 lb. of 16% protein sow and weaner meal mixed with 1 lb. grass pellets and water in to a hot mash can be given. This amount will vary with the condition of the pigs. There is a Pot Bellied pig food on the market that is suitable for Kunes.
Back to top


How much land do they need?
As Kunes thrive on grass it is very important that they have enough grazing for most of the year. The normal recommendation for keeping outdoor pigs is 5-6 pigs to the acre. It must be remembered that as well as eating grass they also walk on it all the time, and in wet weather the land will get cut up especially in gateways etc. you therefore get better use from your land if you can divide it up in to fairly small areas, either with pig wire or electric fencing. Your grazing will also last longer if you have some hard standing, a pen, a yard or a stable, where you can keep them if the land is very wet.
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What kind of housing do they need?
If you have a stable Kunes will do very well with a thick straw bed in the corner of it. Alternatively they will live in a sty or an Arc in the field. There are many different types of arcs. The corrugated iron type are not really suitable, they can be hot in summer and cold in winter. There are some very good wood or plastic arcs available. A good arc will cost between Â£15O-Â£45O.
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What kind of fencing do I need?
Pig wire as its name suggests is a good fencing although small piglets will go through the mesh. It is a good idea to run one strand of barbed wire or a rail along the bottom of the wire to prevent them pushing it up. Electric fencing can be very effective with pigs. With electric fencing several different pens of pigs can be kept in the same field, in separate units living in arcs. Also pigs can be constantly moved so they do not graze off their own droppings.
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How many piglets do Kunes have?
In this country they have between 3-14 piglets, after a gestation period of 112-116 days. Pigs in general give birth easily, and Kunes are very good mothers who do not seem to mind you handling the piglets at all.
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Can I eat Kune Kunes?
Yes, they are very good to eat, they are normally slaughtered at 8-10 months.


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## GeorgeK (Apr 14, 2004)

I can't get the page to load due to a slow dial-up connection. I don't remember the breed but Ronda in Washington has some small farm pigs
http://www.greenerpasturesfarm.com/


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## GeorgeK (Apr 14, 2004)

I raise potbellies for meat, on pasture and they do well. I may be reading too much into some of the posts but there is no pig that can be raised purely on hay. They are not herbivours. Penning them and bringing them hay is not the same as pasturing them, where they can root and get grubs for protein. Potbellies graze about 25-30% of their diet and the rest is from rooting, finding carrion etc.


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

GeorgeK said:


> I can't get the page to load due to a slow dial-up connection. I don't remember the breed but Ronda in Washington has some small farm pigs
> http://www.greenerpasturesfarm.com/



Thanks GK. I checked out that website and they (Greener Pastures Farm) raise Guinea Hogs which are our second choice right now (moved them above Red Wattles recently.) They are a real nice alternative being an American breed of rarity and listed on ALBC's site as critical. They are a small breed and has traditionally been used as a small homesteading pig. I am just not sure how they compare to the pasturing ability of the Kunekunes so that is the only reason they are #2 on the list. 

An update on the search for a breeder, of true to breed stock, of Kunekunes - I did find two farms in the USA (not the two pet people mentioned earlier on this thread) with true Kunekunes but they both were ridiculously  high priced. However, I've located two or three sources that raise their kunes for meat on primarily pasture and have in the past exported to the USA. I have just sent out my initial correspondence to each of them. 

So I need to learn more about importing while I wait. If anyone has some direction on importing I would appreciate a point in the right direction.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

Seems to be that the Potbelly, being a bacon pig not a lard pig, and close to free in many places, would be the way to go.

George has got me thinking about them. I realize that many aren't pure - not when weighing 100-300 pounds from what I've seen, but they've been pets. Hey George, know any breeders in central Arizona who have PBPs?


~Rogo

[email protected]


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## GeorgeK (Apr 14, 2004)

No, but chances are there are shelters nearby. PBP's get dumped on shelters a lot, the main drawback with them is they are usually sterilized and often overweight. You can slim them down by simply pasturing them and making them work for their supper. They also freely cross with other breeds, so if you got two different breeds of bacon pigs you could breed your own farm pig




Rogo said:


> Seems to be that the Potbelly, being a bacon pig not a lard pig, and close to free in many places, would be the way to go.
> 
> George has got me thinking about them. I realize that many aren't pure - not when weighing 100-300 pounds from what I've seen, but they've been pets. Hey George, know any breeders in central Arizona who have PBPs?
> 
> ...


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## GeorgeK (Apr 14, 2004)

It's been a while since I talked to Ronda, but I seem to remember her saying they did very well on pasture. I'm sure if you emailed her she'd be willing to talk about them without requiring a purchase. Tell her I said Hi.




MilkandHoney said:


> Thanks GK.... I am just not sure how they compare to the pasturing ability of the Kunekunes so that is the only reason they are #2 on the list.
> .


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## bbbuddy (Jul 29, 2002)

Rogo said:


> Seems to be that the Potbelly, being a bacon pig not a lard pig, and close to free in many places, would be the way to go.
> 
> George has got me thinking about them. I realize that many aren't pure - not when weighing 100-300 pounds from what I've seen, but they've been pets. Hey George, know any breeders in central Arizona who have PBPs?
> 
> ...



I am out near Snowflake (NE AZ), and raise pbp's! I have a litter due the first of Feb, and another due the first week in March.
Will take reservations!


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== PBP's get dumped on shelters a lot, the main drawback with them is they are usually sterilized and often overweight. ===


I'm sure you're right, George. I understand those pig rescue places cut anything that comes thru the door! And I'd prefer to raise one up, butcher and consume it before I decide to raise them.

Which brings me to buddy!


=== I am out near Snowflake (NE AZ), and raise pbp's! I have a litter due the first of Feb, and another due the first week in March. Will take reservations! ===


How about taking this private and e-mail me so we can discuss the particulars. If you send your phone number and tell me the best time to get you, I'll give you a call.


=== You can't ride, til you get on.... ===


Hmmmm, you're probably 3 hours or better from me by vehicle. Might take a bit longer if I ride my Mammoth jack! -LOL-


~Rogo

[email protected]


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## GeorgeK (Apr 14, 2004)

I was considering adding a page to my website just listing breeders of pbp's as a meat pig and a source for buying pbp's that have not been sterilized. If you are interested email me through my website, put pbp meat breeder in the subject heading so the filters don't junk it, and spread the word.






bbbuddy said:


> I am out near Snowflake (NE AZ), and raise pbp's! I have a litter due the first of Feb, and another due the first week in March.
> Will take reservations!


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

GeorgeK said:


> I was considering adding a page to my website just listing breeders of pbp's as a meat pig and a source for buying pbp's that have not been sterilized. If you are interested email me through my website, put pbp meat breeder in the subject heading so the filters don't junk it, and spread the word.


I have not been to your website but will check it out! Thanks :baby04:


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

This is all new to me and I'd just like to quickly report on a bit of information I have compiled regarding Kunekune pigs as a source of pork. I have been receiving e-mails from breed owners around the world as well as researching boards and websites. It appears that I have found a near-consensus on one important issue.

Those that have reported that they raise their Kunekunes for pork have all stated that they have excellent flavor (if not sweet), has a good amount of meat and the pork itself is lean. This seems to contradict what many others have to say about the breed, which most often say that Kunekunes are a lard or pet pig breed. This division is apparently for good reason.

I have learned that with the Kunekune it is very important to pay close attention to the conditions of their life. The Kunekune is used to and has survived as a breed through feeding off the extremely rich grassland pastures of New Zealand. This gives them the possibility to fatten to undesirable levels. Our (in the USA) typical homesteader pastures are not nearly as rich as those in New Zealand and therefore lessens this risk somewhat. 

Some people have tried to raise these pigs in a pen environment on high protein commercial feed to get them to butcher in 9 months or less. The confinement on this kind of diet sets this pig up to be too fat.

The near-consensus from pork producing Kunekune farmers, that have responded to me, is that in order to achieve the desired results that the Kunekunes have to be fed predominately grass, with exercise opportunities (pasture), and be allowed to age to 10 - 18 months before going to butcher. 

This is based on the responses I have received. I would like to hear from more people that have knowledge or experience with this breed especially those that are raising Kunekunes for pork. The more info, the better. Thanks!


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

While researching the American Guinea Hog in connection with my Kunekune quest I found the message below on a thread from 2004. It states succinctly a few of the reasons why I am so interested in the Kunekune and now the American Guinea Hog. 



Tango said:


> Adult size is one difference but you have a valid consideration concerning the Guinea hog. I'll explain. Potbelly Pigs, Guinea hogs, and wild pigs all grow to about 1/3 of the size of a domestic. Not all families need the 250 market weight goal of a domestic. For my small family the carcass was a huge pain to deal with and the meat lasted forever, long after our favorite portions were gone. A smaller pig answers the needs of a smaller homestead or the needs of one person working. They are easier to manage. The meat is exquisite in the case of the wild pig (you can't compare with a domestic) and they are lean pigs. No fat. There are very few inherited health problems or complications, and they are very managable for one person. I don't have any rush to grow a pig of mine either. I enjoy raising them. I'm not keeping one eye on the clock and the other on my checkbook- most of the time both my eyes are on my pigs. It is a completely different concept that comes with my way of life......


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## homebirtha (Feb 19, 2004)

I can't help but wonder how pork that is that old actually tastes. We have tried a few heritage breeds of other animals (chickens and goats), and the fact that they take so long to grow out is an issue. It's not about "keeping one eye on the clock and one on the checkbook" so much. It's about the meat from a younger animal being much more tender and tasty then one from an older animal. 18 months seems like a long time to grow out a pig. 

I'm curious what others have found with slower-growth hogs and the quality of the meat. I know with our heritage-breed chickens, they tend to be a lot tougher because they are so much older.


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

homebirtha said:


> I'm curious what others have found with slower-growth hogs and the quality of the meat. I know with our heritage-breed chickens, they tend to be a lot tougher because they are so much older.


This is a good question. I can only comment from my and my family's experience. The most recent example we have on the subject of quick grown meat verses slower grown heritage breed meat comes from our Thanksgiving meal. 

We had a slow grown on pasture heritage turkey and a quick grown young turkey to compare this past year. We tried our best to prepare them identically. Cutting to the chase the quick grown turkey had a pleasant mellow taste with soft, leaning to but not quite getting to mushy, texture as you ate it. The heritage turkey had good flavour with a distinct "turkey" taste to it and was firmer with a bit of a chew but by no means was it tough. Plus the dark meat on the heritage bird was darker, moister and more abundant. The skin on the heritage turkey was by far the kids choice as the skin on the other turkey was just too thin for their liking. The hands down favourite was the slow grown older turkey. 

We have done these taste trials on meat, fruits, and vegetables (especially tomato, squash and melon) and the winner is usually, not always, the slower grown food. Perhaps it takes time to develop the full, rich flavors we desire.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

homebirtha said:


> I can't help but wonder how pork that is that old actually tastes. We have tried a few heritage breeds of other animals (chickens and goats), and the fact that they take so long to grow out is an issue. It's not about "keeping one eye on the clock and one on the checkbook" so much. It's about the meat from a younger animal being much more tender and tasty then one from an older animal. 18 months seems like a long time to grow out a pig.
> 
> I'm curious what others have found with slower-growth hogs and the quality of the meat. I know with our heritage-breed chickens, they tend to be a lot tougher because they are so much older.


I think there is a difference. At 18 months, a pig is still not full grown, so phisiologicly, it is still a "young" animal.


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

I'm starting to get somewhere on importing Kunekune pigs now. It is going to be a slow process, a little expensive, but IMHO worth the investment to get a true Kunekune here in the USA. I believe we should be able to use these pigs for their original intention of being a food source.

I am now switching gears from looking for a breeder here in the states to seeing if there is anyone else interested in getting a Kunekune for their farm. I am not looking to become a big-time breeder of this breed however I am interested in two things; 1) getting access to the Kunekune pig here in the USA for a reasonable end cost, and 2) recouping some of my money outlay involved in this venture. 

I would like to explore this to see if there is enough interest in this for me to actually put it in motion. Just looking to get a feel for any possibility. Please let me know either through posting here or sending me a PM. 

. :1pig: .


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## goatmarm (Nov 19, 2005)

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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

goatmarm said:


> We've been researching breeds for our very small homestead as well. I like that the Guinea hogs do not carry the stigma of being a "pet" like the potbellies. On the other hand, as long as the pots are not overfed they should be leaner pigs. I was thinking kunekune too, but the prices are ridiculous! $2,000.00 and up( not including shipping) for one pig! I don't think so!
> So it looks like we will either go with potbellies or American Guinea Hogs. I like the fact that the kids can be part of a 4-H program for breed conservancy if we decide to go with the guinea hogs. Still, prices are $300.-- for a single piglet, figure in another $250.- for shipping, and we'd have to spend about $1,000.00 to get started with a breeding pair. Sigh....
> I guess it looks like we'll be going with potbellies for now. We'll just have to be discreet so we don't get attacked by crazy "potbellies are strictly pets" people.


Check out this list that just started for pbp meat breeders:
http://www.windridgefarm.us/

Excerpt from the webpage:
Pet Pig activists have tried to squelch any information about farmers who raise potbellies for meat and have bullied some into hiding. Despite this, there are many farmers who put potbellied pork on the table to feed their families. The normal way to farm any livestock is to save your breeders and eat or sell the rest. The following breeders have requested a listing as those willing to sell intact potbelly pigs for the purpose of breeding as a meat pig (or a pet if that's what you want. The point is they will not require that any pigs sold to you are sterilized.) The web designers and web owners of this page have no connection with them other than a similar desire to see that homesteaders and hobby farms can understand and see what a good addition a small pig can be to your farm. By listing their farm and contact information, the breeders agree that they provide a healthy home for their animals and that they are harvested in a humane manner.

While looking into Kunekunes we also looked into the Guinea Hogs. They are our second choice behind the Kunekune. Here is a list of breeders or sources for Guinea Hogs that we found on the internet:

http://www.americanguineahogs.com/ 

http://www.cascademeadowsfarm.com/americanguineahog.html

http://www.guineahogs.com/

http://www.greenerpasturesfarm.com/

http://www.maveric9.com/guinea.htm

http://www.lattaplantation.org/animals/guinea_hogs.shtml

http://www.morrisfarm.org/Animals.html

http://www.hestersfarmloghomes.com/index.html

http://geocities.com/graceridgefarms/

Black Jack Farm - Randy Setty email [email protected]

There is also a Yahoo! Group at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/guineahogs/ that might be worth looking into for the American Guinea Hog breed.

Thanks for letting us know that you were interested in the Kunekune too but that the price and probably the shipping costs involved are a major priority in your consideration of breed (rightly so I might add.) May I ask what would be an acceptable price for a Kunekune breeding pair in this instance for your 4-H project?

Let us know which breed you go with and if it is the Guiena Hog where you got your pigs and what your experience was there. Good luck with your 4-H project!


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## goatmarm (Nov 19, 2005)

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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

homebirtha said:


> I can't help but wonder how pork that is that old actually tastes. We have tried a few heritage breeds of other animals (chickens and goats), and the fact that they take so long to grow out is an issue...
> 
> I'm curious what others have found with slower-growth hogs and the quality of the meat. I know with our heritage-breed chickens, they tend to be a lot tougher because they are so much older.


Here's another look at heritage pigs as quoted from http://www.garyjones.org/mt/archives/000291.html :

"Heritage pork tastes nothing like 'the other white meat.' It's juicier, a deeper red and, well, just porkier. And that's exactly what will save the breeds from extinction, says Todd Wickstrom, co-founder of Heritage Foods USA, formerly the marketing and sales arm of Slow Food USA, which is dedicated to preserving local foods and culinary traditions....Each breed is distinct, but they all take six to eight weeks longer than their conventional counterparts to reach market weight. Their meat has a finer grain, so it holds moisture better and is more highly marbled. That means there's more intramuscular fat, which is a good thing, says Mario Fantasma, a butcher who runs Paradise Locker Meats, with wife Teresa, and sons Louis and Nick."


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

goatmarm said:


> Thanks MilkandHoney,
> I did see some of those links, but the Morris farm one here in Maine was one I hadn't seen yet. I just e-mailed them.


goatmarm - Did you get a response from the Morris farm or any help from the Yahoo! group? Please let us know. - MilkandHoney


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## goatmarm (Nov 19, 2005)

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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

.................................................










=== I know with our heritage-breed chickens, they tend to be a lot tougher because they are so much older. ===


A long timer says any bird can be juicy and tender, even an 8 year old if it's marinated in the fridge for 3 - 4 days. Birds are aged that long anyway, so just add the marinate!

MANY years ago, I got a whole pig from a packing plant for a pork-and-poultry-pool-party I was having. I was told to marinate the pig for 24 hours in lemon juice. I put the pig in the bathtub. Don't remember how many quarts of lemon juice I used.

Side note. My ex and I were going out that night, and I told the babysitter to check on the child in the bathtub. I think they heard her screams in the next county!

We'd had a fireplace built out in the yard to roast whole critters. The spit revolved 3 times a minute. There were 2 grates, one above the other. Used charcoal on one and mesquite on the other. The pig provided entertainment. As he revolved, when his head was down, his tongue hung out. When his head was up, it went back in his mouth. The pig cooked for 24 hours.

The next day, on the gas grill, a turkey revolved on the spit.

That pig was the most succulent meat. Jeez, it was so delicious. What I also enjoyed was that it didn't need basting as it cooked!


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

Rogo said:


> === I know with our heritage-breed chickens, they tend to be a lot tougher because they are so much older. ===
> 
> A long timer says any bird can be juicy and tender, even an 8 year old if it's marinated in the fridge for 3 - 4 days. Birds are aged that long anyway, so just add the marinate!
> 
> ...



Rogo - Thanks for the info and a great story with the babysitter. :rotfl: Did the sitter ever work for you again? 

As a child my parents hired a new babysitter for us without ever meeting my brothers (2 of them) and me. The faithful night arrived and we, the children, were to be in bed asleep before the sitter arrived. As the sitter pulled up we jumped out of our beds and replaced ourselves with ventriloquist dummies and proceeded to hide in the closet of the bedroom. Our parents left and the sitter stepped in to check on usâ¦there was dead silence for more than a few minutes, then some deep breaths and just as the sitter was leaving the room some low level giggles. And then lots of laughter followed up by what we think was a phone call to a friend and then dead silence again. I can only imagine what the sitter was thinking during that second round of silence. We heard the front door begin to open and ran out to intercept the sitterâs departureâ¦what a scream!!!

Anyway, thanks for the cooking info.


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

goatmarm said:


> The Morris Farm only has a single older Guinea Hog boar that they are not interested in breeding. The yahoo group for guinea hogs is a good spot to go if your looking to get into Guinea Hogs. I am looking forward to making plans to visit a breeder in NH. I'll probably wait until spring considering the weather we've been having.



Well good luck. Too bad about that boar at The Morris Farm. Regardless of age, if it can still produce (naturally or AI), I'm certain the American Guinea Hog folks would like the genes! That group should really look into potential gene stock via AI from the nation's Zoos and Petting Zoos as I'm fairly certain that their connections with current breeders and farmers have closely related herd stock.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

MilkandHoney, you're worse than I was! -LOL- Yep, the sitter came back, probably due to all of us having a good laugh at the time. We didn't leave until she regained her composure.

Ran across these U.S. Kunekune sites that you probably already know about:

http://www.usakunekunes.com/

http://www.farmshow.com/issues/250307.asp

http://www.justsayoinc.com/uskba.htm


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## goatmarm (Nov 19, 2005)

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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

My limited knowledge has thus far been with the farm hogs. If the Guinea hog is a lard pig and the Potbelly is a bacon pig, won't that make a difference in the meat? More fat on the Guinea?


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

goatmarm said:


> I visited the USAkunekunes site, and e-mailed the owner about my interest. The prices were just too much for my pocketbook. Sorry, I didn't save the reply with the cost of piglets, but it was way over $1,000.+ per piglet even before you figure in health cert.+ shipping. I decided I should go with a breed that is not so rare and expensive. We aren't looking to get into pigs to sell for $$$, just small farm pigs for ourselves to use. I think the Guinea hog will be a good choice for us. We shall see.



You now know my plight. The prices really are absurd for Kunekune pigs here in the USA and combine that with the whole "pet" pig only issue and it makes me go hmmmmmm (to me this means challenge.) These pigs can be had in New Zealand or the U.K. for $50 to $100 typically. These prices alone tell me that they are NOT "rare." Prices in the USA range from $1,500 and $3,000 per pig to $10,000 for a registered breeding pair. Perhaps its the pioneering / homesteader in me but I can't live with this as is and will do something about it one day. As I slowly move into the Kunkune pig arena I will probably go with American Guinea Hogs in the interim as our farm pig as this was once America's all around family farm pig.


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

Rogo said:


> My limited knowledge has thus far been with the farm hogs. If the Guinea hog is a lard pig and the Potbelly is a bacon pig, won't that make a difference in the meat? More fat on the Guinea?



I've got to believe that the way you raise your pig has a huge impact on its qualities. While many things are breed specific, I believe that fat percentage can be somewhat affected by diet. This is based on some feedback I received regarding the Kunekune pigs and have to believe it is somewhat applicable to American Guinea Hogs as well. Here is my posting on this:




MilkandHoney said:


> This is all new to me and I'd just like to quickly report on a bit of information I have compiled regarding Kunekune pigs as a source of pork. I have been receiving e-mails from breed owners around the world as well as researching boards and websites. It appears that I have found a near-consensus on one important issue.
> 
> Those that have reported that they raise their Kunekunes for pork have all stated that they have excellent flavor (if not sweet), has a good amount of meat and the pork itself is lean. This seems to contradict what many others have to say about the breed, which most often say that Kunekunes are a lard or pet pig breed. This division is apparently for good reason.
> 
> ...


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== I've got to believe that the way you raise your pig has a huge impact on its qualities. While many things are breed specific, I believe that fat percentage can be somewhat affected by diet. ===


You're probably right. I also think exercise has a lot to do with it. Free ranging Potbellies don't look like the couch potato pets.

If the Kunekune becomes popular in the U.S., the prices will eventually follow the Potbelly -- dropping drastically. And if a large enough gene pool isn't brought over here, what may also follow the Potbelly is folks breeding the Kunekune to hogs. [sigh]


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## goatmarm (Nov 19, 2005)

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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

goatmarm said:


> MilkandHoney,
> I didn't mean to say the kunekunes were a rare breed in general, but just apparently here in the U.S.. I've seen the much more reasonable prices from overseas, but then there is still the legalities of shipping in livestock, quarantine, etc... which would bring the cost back up.
> We have a pb sow that I'll eventually breed to a healthy pb boar for meat piglets. The only thing is, going by her size....there just wouldn't be much meat. I am hoping the guinea hogs will be "in between" size-wise. I know the guineas are "lard" hogs whereas pbps are "bacon" pigs, so it will be interesting to raise a litter of each to see which we prefer. I'll have to start using lard in my soaps( rather than just veggie oils) to use up all the excess.



We are in agreement.  There are a lot of start up costs involved for a Kunekune herd. One way to offset these costs is to charge a high enough price for the offspring. But I think I might like to band with others interested in Kunekunes to buy shares in a foundation herd and project that way we could spread the costs out. I would want the initial stock to be of the traditional Kunekune type not the sized down Kunekune "pet" pig of USA so it could be used for pork which means more than likely buying stock outside the USA. Eventually, we could each have our own Kunekunes at a fair price and if so desired offer piglets for sale at a market price similar to other pigs. 

As far as size goes I understand. Different families have different demands for pork. Some need loads, others just a little. This is one of many reasons why we need to have a choice of pigs here in the USA.


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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

Here is a spot to locate Kunekune pigs in New Zealand and the UK. I believe two of the USA sources listed are the "pet" people with very high prices and the last one listed in Northern California is no longer in the biz (I think he has a boar at a very high price that he is trying to sell still.) Here's the link (it has a cute pic or two on this site):

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/5330/kunekunekune.html


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## tbishop (Nov 24, 2004)

Did anyone get anywhere with the kunekunes?

Tim B.


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

I just had handmade sausage with jalapenos and garam masala from my AHH this morning! 

Thanks to George/Windridge and Laura Jensen Workman, I took the plunge (ok, I would've probably tried it anyway because it's logical) and took in some FREE AHH. Well, they were diseased and it didn't work. But it intrigued me and I found some healthy AHH and have been breeding them and filling my freezer ever since! AND have them given to me - mostly FREE.

Yes, slower growing. Yes, less meat. Yes, different.

HOWEVER.

The cost is very very low (mostly free), the penning and housing is inexpensive, the hand-butchering (by ME ALONE) is relatively easy.

I've made bacon (yum), am corning two shoulders and a ham (yum), make killer sausage, utilize the fat, use the bones and such for my dogs...

All in all? A PERFECT pigger for a smallholding like mine. I have four Mong Cai-style AHH piglets right now. About 2 months old, slow-growing and a source of CONSTANT entertainment on the farm. 

Yes, you can get a commercial hog and just butcher young (a nod to Walter and Heritage/Brian). For me? The "use of something other people don't think of" appeals to me. 

No, they're not grisly. Depending on the style, AHH can be meaty, tall, leggy, small, pudgy. Pick what you like, breed like you want, eat what you can find. The Appalachian folks are nodding their heads. So am I.


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## 449piglady (Oct 15, 2009)

We raise Kunekunes here in the United States. You can see our web-site at http://www.rockymountainkunekunes.com Kunekunes are excellent grazers. I have heard of them rooting, but ours do not. There is controversry over whether or not kunekune pigs are meat pigs or pet pigs. The American Kunekune Breeder's Association supports them as both a meat pig and a pet pig. They do grow extremely slow their 1st year and I can see that they would only yield around 60 lbs of meat at a year old. Kunekunes have many great characteristics that make them desireable to have on the farm, including their grazing ability and extreme friendliness. For us personally, we raise large pigs too, including Berkshires, we do not see that kunekunes would be a great meat hog, they are considered a lard type pig. They have a tendency to get fat. What we have done is bred kunekunes into our large pig herd. We are establishing our own breed of pig. We are very happy with our results, which is a smaller pig at maturity, but gets to butcher weight in the same time frame as any other meat hog. The shorter the snout the better suited the pig is for grazing. We have also captured the friendliness of the kunekune into our breed. The meat is fabulous and all of our customers love it.


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## Jcran (Jan 4, 2006)

A woman I occasionally sell boer goats too, and whose herd we help test for CAE and CL has imported kune kunes here in Northern California. She is starting a meat CSA and went to NZ to get them. Her "farm" is called TULE FOG FARM and her name is Shail. Her husband is Sean, but I couldn't tell you her last name. Google TULE FOG FARM, ARCATA, CALIFORNIA, and see what comes up. I will dig up her email account if you need it.

Edited post to ad her contact information:

Tule Fog Farm

Shail Pec-Crouse
2067 Eastern Ave
Arcata, Ca, 95521
707-826-1450
Email: [email protected]

Products

product is eggs later in season meat geese

Markets

Arcata Plaza


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## tbishop (Nov 24, 2004)

Cool! Sounds like there HAS been progress. I'm assuming Mong Cai is a newer term for what we called pot-bellied pigs a few years ago?

Tim B.


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## tbishop (Nov 24, 2004)

449piglady said:


> We raise Kunekunes here in the United States. You can see our web-site at http://www.rockymountainkunekunes.com




It says a deposit on an 8-week old piglet is $250.00. Is the entire price significantly more than that?

Tim B.


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## RW kansas hogs (Nov 19, 2010)

I have thought about buying some Kunes a few years ago for starting our own small herd for there meat and meat only, The only reason i didnt is the price of the animal as a piglet. I can buy twice as many Heritage Breed pigs for the price of a pair of breeding stock Kunes. 
I still want a breeding pair of Kunes but they will have to wait a while untill we get our Berkshire market hog operation going.
The same thing applies to the Mangalista Breed to, We all most got a breeding pair of those to but around here people are not ready for the lard type hog yet. 
And i am a firm believer of fat on a hog, They will prodoce the best tasting pork you will ever eat. Thats my opinion tho


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

Nope. Mong Cai is a TYPE of hog from the Laotian/Viet area... South East Asia. It's bigger, taller, flat-sided (bacon hog) with smaller hams and shoulders but a long loin.


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## Tlutz (Nov 9, 2012)

Old post but thought I would see if anything new is known about the KuneKune breed and market today in the US.


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## tazz (Jul 2, 2008)

Kunekunes have now spread throughout the US. They still come with a relatively high price tag for registered purebreds. I raise purebreds as well as high percentage kune-crosses (7/8 KK and up). My k-crosses have all the great traits that kunekunes are known for including the laid back friendly personality, excellent grazing ability and little to no tendency to root. They are slow growers but very economical to raise and so make a great small homestead pig. I put a couple in the freezer every year. The meat is excellent, lean yet very moist with a nice layer of fat on the outside. I'll attach a few pictures of my fall litters.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

I just picked up a little 7/8 Kunekune boar and a two-year-old sow that looks to be either pure or very high percentage Kunekune. The boar is about 3 months old and very much a boar. I put a video on You Tube of him trying to have his way with the sow. [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNeylXSEmTY[/ame] 

The sow was a rescue, practically starved when I picked her up three weeks before filming, so I suspect she'll redistribute some muscle, etc., over the next couple of months. See this thread for pictures: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/pigs/524692-before-after.html .

Anyway, I paid $150 for the sow and $200 for the boar, so if you don't insist on registration papers, you can pick up a Kunekune or something very close for a pretty reasonable price these days.


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## FreedomFeathers (Aug 25, 2014)

I got two kunekune gilts in Oregon for 150$ each. I would like to eventually buy a boar, no luck yet!








Funny clip- haha


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## njenner (Jul 15, 2013)

I have a registered Kune boar named Boris. He is almost 6 months old. My plan is to breed him to my AGH/Berkshire gilt. If successful, my hope is to sell the piglets for $125 each and keep one for our freezer.


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## GreenMomma (Jun 3, 2008)

njenner- I'd be interested in getting a boar from that cross from you. What are the sizes of the 2 you're breeding?


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## njenner (Jul 15, 2013)

The gilt we are breeding is now about 180 pounds now at 8 1/2 months. We are not sure how much she will top out given the disparity of size of the two breeds. I can't wait to see if the Boris can reach! Hope to find out in November.


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## GGRkunekunes (Oct 31, 2013)

Freedom those dont look like pure Kunes. Prob why so cheap. 


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## GGRkunekunes (Oct 31, 2013)

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## MilkandHoney (Nov 25, 2006)

It is a beautiful thing to see the Kunekune pigs here is the USA.


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