# Alternatives to Drywall? T&G is too expensive!



## PorkChopsMmm

So we are ready to put up an interior siding throughout our cabin. The dimensions are 24x32 with a loft -- total interior sqft is 1200. There are also cathedral ceilings which increase the dimensions. We would like some of the rooms to have bead board walls although it has been tricky finding wall paneling that is thick enough to not have a backer. In the other rooms we wanted to do tongue and groove on the walls. Our carpenter estimated 6k (!!) for just the materials if we bought the prefinished pine carsiding from Menards. That is way out of our budget and does not include installation. We have gotten quotes ranging from 5k to 6k to completely drywall the interior. I am interested in this because in will completely enclose the interior in 1 weeks time and we can over time and as money allows 'add' wall coverings, for example thin beadboard or thinner tongue and groove. 

I was all set to pull the trigger on the drywall when I saw this thread from 
oz in SC V2.0 http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showpost.php?p=5021952&postcount=3. He has used what looks like regular pine boards and face nailed them. I never thought of this and honestly I don't know what the price difference would be between face nailed boards, T&G, and drywall. We need to have someone do the installation because we just had our 3rd baby and we live 4 hrs away. It would take me all summer of weekend work to get this done.

So... what do you all think? Start with drywall or try to piecemeal the wood siding now? Are there any alternatives to drywall or T&G that you would recommend? Thanks!


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## Wisconsin Ann

I don't like sheetrock, myself. tongue and groove interior is pricey...you might be able to do better than Menard's price by using flooring on the walls. Like a lumber liquidators. Depends a lot on how "finished" you want it. 

Dry wall IS fast. 4x10 sheet and ZAP you're pretty much done. (a little time to tape the joints and mud, but that's really fast once you learn how to do it). 

The problem with a straight board on the walls is that they swell and contract depending on the weather. No two boards are perfectly matched and straight. 

You might look into a little creative work...a GOOD plywood, which you can do a simple thin SHALLOW cut every XXnumber of inches so you have the look of boards. I've seen that done very very nicely.


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## Darren

I can't tell where you live so I have no idea whether logging goes on in your area. Around here logging is a common activity. One mill is now running an ad for oak, poplar, maple and cherry tongue and grove wall paneling. They also sell oak and poplar 2x4, 2x6 and 2x8 oak and poplar and random width barn siding.

Sometime they have hemlock. There's no pine here. I could drive two hours or less and buy lumber from mills that make solid wood flooring. I have no idea what the cost is. 

If you can live with a longer time schedule you could obviously do the work and save money plus get a better result. You also have the possibility, if you have a lumber source, of buying rough sawn lumber, buying the equipment yourself, planing the lumber and making the joints. For example one of the old Park cast iron planers comes up for sale on eBay from time to time. When you're done, sell the equipment.

Time is not on your side in this case. That's what is costing you money. The cost of the carpenter labor would buy equipment and possibly allow you to upgrade material. I know that's an obvious answer. But that's what I would do.


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## PorkChopsMmm

Thank you for the responses. The cabin is in Michigan and I know there are mills close by. I was disappointed when I called around to the local mills and Menards had them beat on price and they are only 30 minutes away. I never thought about flooring on the walls. I will look into that.

I have tried to look at plywood wood paneling that has the look of carsiding or tongue and groove but everything I have seen looks like junk up close. With paint it may look ok but a clear finish wouldn't look good. Plus the price per sheet is usually over $20.


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## Bearfootfarm

I think you'd be better off to do sheetrock and THEN cover it with the T&G

That way you seal out air and moisture, and provide a more stable surface for the siding material

If it's going to be covered you don't have to go through all the finishing steps as if you were going to paint or wallpaper


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## Cabin Fever

We have used both T&G and shiplap siding in our home and cabin. Some of the shiplap is natural and some is painted. Yes, wood may be a bit more expensive, but the amount of work putting it up is about half that of sheetrock. You can probably do much better on prices checking with some of the local lumberyards and mill than at Menards. 


Grade 3 T&G paneling in our Guest Cabin:









Natural shiplap siding in our Cabin Home:









Painted shiplap siding in our Cabin Home:


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## PorkChopsMmm

This is all wonderful advice -- thank you! Does anyone know a general cost difference between shiplap and T&G? Why would someone go with one over the other?


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## TNHermit

Green lumber shrinks. So either T&G or shiplap could shrink and leave cracks. And it depends on the look you want. Shiplap is better over a exiting substrate. If your in Michigan call Fingerle Lumber down by Ann Arbor. Did business with them for years and they have pretty reasonable prices. They have an online catalog. Google is your friend.
If you just want to seal it up till you decide why not screw 7/16 OSB like your saw is setting on. ITs pretty cheap,give you solid walls and when you decide what you want in each room you could unscrew it and put up what you want. OR go right over it. It would give you a chance to look around for other lumber and let it dry.

If you do use t&g or shiplap I would recommend something behind it. Keeps the bugs and such out and the wall will lay flatter. 3/8 drywall would work


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## Ross

Drywall is not a moisture barrier, but it can be a fire barrier and some is also a sound barrier. Hard to beat drywall on cost esp if all you do is board it and tape the joints with no finishing work. If you're going to cover it later why put on finish coats of mud and sanding? Thats where you'll have costly labour.


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## Cabin Fever

I guess our paneling is different than sold in most places. It's been 8 years in the house and way more in the guest cabin, and it hasn't shrunk (at least there are no open seams) and it lays flat. Of course, ours was kiln dry to begin with. I would never put up green siding without something behind it -as TNHermit suggests - onaccounta you're gonna have gaps between the boards from shrinkage and probably some major warpage in places as well. 

IMHO if you're gonna put sheetrock behind panelling, you might as well just tape it, paint it, and forget about the panelling.


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## PorkChopsMmm

Cabin Fever said:


> *IMHO if you're gonna put sheetrock behind panelling, you might as well just tape it, paint it, and forget about the panelling.*


This is what I am thinking, for the short term. We are 4 hours away and I am working with a contractor to finish the inside. I think if I start picking and choosing walls that I want mudded versus walls that I don't, to save money, something isn't going to get finished right. Out of the 5-6k job in total my contractor estimated it would only be about 1k less to NOT mud the whole place. Right now I am thinking we get the whole place drywalled with mud and then we can come back later and due T&G, shiplap, or some other nicer wood wall covering in some of the rooms. We don't have a formal design yet for every room and I think not mudding and taping the drywall would lead to a lot of headaches down the road. 

It has been great to hear your feedback. I am trying to think through the different options ahead of me and it is good to hear from people who have been there. Thanks!


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## Bearfootfarm

> I think not *mudding and taping *the drywall would lead to a lot of headaches down the road.


You'd need to do that to all the walls.
You just wouldn't need the finish coat and all the sanding on any walls you plan to panel


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## Cyngbaeld

Drywall installation isn't hard, really. I'd be inclined to do it myself over the summer and save the funds for something else. You can rent the equipment to lift the drywall sheets to the ceiling and hold it while you screw it in place. I'm not real crazy about drywall, but it does improve fire resistance.


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## TNHermit

I would be checking out the 5-6K price for a place that small. GET it itemized. Seems awful high to me for a little place like that!. Is material included?
You could drywall and finish the rooms you choose and OSB the rest. The reason I push the OSB is it is reusable. Maybe for another outside building. Save a few bucks 
If you are going to put T&G on some walls just use 3/8 rock.


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## PorkChopsMmm

Cyngbaeld said:


> Drywall installation isn't hard, really. I'd be inclined to do it myself over the summer and save the funds for something else. You can rent the equipment to lift the drywall sheets to the ceiling and hold it while you screw it in place. I'm not real crazy about drywall, but it does improve fire resistance.


I wish I could. I have 2 children toddler age and now a newborn. I am hoping to get the inside of the place finished so I can stay at the place with my family over the weekend and work on other projects to continue setting up the homestead. As it is right now I have been leaving Friday nights, working all day on Saturday, and driving home Saturday night. That's 8 hours of driving for 12 hours of work. I think to do the drywall myself it would take forever, I would be spending a lot on gas, and I would miss working on other projects over the summer. If we lived closer I would be all over it. I am in the same predicament here with T&G or shiplap -- I just don't have the time to install it.

I am definitely going to get another quote or 2. I checked the general price of getting drywall done and I came up with between $0.85 to $1.25 a sqft. With the estimate I got from my current contractor I am way over that estimate even with over-estimating a good bit. These prices all include materials.


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## Witterbound

Is the electical rough in already done? It's so much simpler to do your electrical in sheet rock, than paneling or t&g.


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## PorkChopsMmm

Yes, the rough in is done. That's good to know. After calling around and checking prices I think we are going to T&G the ceiling and drywall the walls. It's the most cost effective way to actually get some nice wood siding somewhere in the interior. I am waiting final numbers now.


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## CJ

My very first home was a darling little stone house. The interior walls were rough cedar, and I absolutely loved the way they looked, although I will tell you they were a pain to keep dusted because they were rough, you had to vaccuum them instead.


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## PorkChopsMmm

CJ said:


> My very first home was a darling little stone house. The interior walls were rough cedar, and I absolutely loved the way they looked, although I will tell you they were a pain to keep dusted because they were rough, you had to vaccuum them instead.


That's good to know, thank you. Our plan for at any wood surfaces we have is for them to be finished, e.g. not rough cut, and have them sealed with a clear Minwax poly or something similar.


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## tnokie

What are the deminsions of your house/floorplan?


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## RonM

tnokie- go back to page 1 for that info.........


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## PorkChopsMmm

Right RonM, 24x32 and the layouts are in the first post. After working with my carpenter he thinks he found a source for T&G that is half the price of Menards. I am waiting to hear is labor estimates -- that will be the biggest price by far. Our options are still T&G just the ceiling and drywall on the walls or T&G the entire cabin.


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## tkrabec

planer & Jointer + pallets & time == nice wood probably ~$1000 for the tools


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## PorkChopsMmm

tkrabec said:


> planer & Jointer + pallets & time == nice wood probably ~$1000 for the tools


Wish I had the time. I would love the tools! We have another newborn now and time is very short.


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## tryinhard

Here's athought. I know a guy that add on to his house and used pallet scraps on his floor. He put down plywood first and then nailed the pallet wood to it. He only used the thin pieces, maybe 3 inchs wide or smaller. Then ran a sander over it and finished. It looks really neat. It is kind of rough. The boards aren't all the same thickness.


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## City Bound

I was flipping through a cabin making book last year and the guy recomended using plywood for the walls and ceiling. I thought that would look cheap until I turned the page and saw the interior of the cabin and the stained and polyututhaned plywood looked good.

if I was tight on cash I would try plywood, or paneling (the kind that was popular in the 70's)....they both go up pretty easy. paneling is easier then plywood because it is lighter.

Pallets are good, and usually free, but they are treated with some antifugal chemical, so I hear, that makes them toxic when burned or cut.

Dry wall is ok, but it needs to painted every so many years.


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## PorkChopsMmm

City Bound, thanks for the advice. I am looking at some google images. I think it looks sharp but my wife may not 

I got back numbers from our contractor. $1 a sqft to install the T&G on the walls. Since we have ~3,700 sqft it comes out to be quite a bit. Do you all think that is a standard price? He would be supplying all the screws, etc. needed.


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## City Bound

If he is supplying the wood also, then it is a good price, but just for labor and screws, it sounds high. Is he going to finish the wood also?

Contracting is pretty hard work, so, sometime the high prices they ask are not too far off from the value of the work they put in to doing the job. Ask yourself, if I was doing it for someone else how much would I want for my time, labor, and skill? Also, ask yourself how much are you willing to pay for the convience of getting it done farely quick and having someone else do all the work and clean up? Also, you have to be realistic that, unless you do all the work yourself, having a nice home with high quality finishings can cost a lot of money, because quality of labor and materials cost more.

There are a lot of crappy handymen and contrators out there so be cautious of who you hire. Someone who does a bad job for you can really decrease the value of your home and the pleasure you feel living in it.


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## PorkChopsMmm

No, the wood is extra. He has negotiated a pretty good price for T&G that makes the material costs more economical for us. I couldn't find any mills that could match the price of his supplier -- I will be paying his supplier directly. He is going to finish the wood also using a water based sealer so the pine doesn't yellow.

This guy does solid work and my time is extremely limited so your points are valid. I think I just need to take a hard look at the numbers he provided for this job, and other jobs, to see what we can go with.

Thanks for the advice!


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## City Bound

your welcome. 

Sounds like a pretty good deal considering that he does good work, is getting you a better price for the wood, and is finishing the wood. Is he going to put up base molding around the floor edge and molding in seems and around doors? If so then that is good also. If he does a good job, it sounds like you would be able to just move in when he is done.

Contractors get discounts at lumber yards.


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## Parttimefarmer

We have a log home in NW MI, and it's about your size with loft and log + T&G everywhere inside plus the log railings. I have to say I don't like drywall, but when you have a log house with wood walls, wood rails, wood ceilings, and wood cabinets, it's a lot of wood to look at. You will notice when things don't take stain the same or have the same grain and it's dark. Having some place that's not wood would be nice. Some drywall or paintable shiplap siding might be nice.

Andrea


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## plowjockey

How about the plywood that has the cut grooves(to look like individual slats) and roughed finish, that is used for siding on outside storage sheds? It is T&G on the long edges (maybe the short ones too)?

It looks pretty good with a nice stain and was about $27 for a 4x8 sheet, about a year ago.


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## PorkChopsMmm

Good tips on the costs. Here is what I have come up with to finish the place. Labor costs are from my contractor and I came up with the material costs for the most part. This is a lot of money. Over half of what it cost to build the place.










Parttimefarmer: good to know! I have a separate cost sheet in case we choose to ditch the 1x8 T&G (except for a nice wall where it would look good) and go drywall on some of the common interior walls. It would help with breaking up the wood.

Plowjockey I would do that in a heartbeat but my wife makes the call on look and feel. After looking online and checking big box stores I can't find a wood panel that is a) thick enough, b) nice enough and c) is cheaper than T&G.


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## InvalidID

Lot of ideas in here and I am sad to admit I didn't read them all. So if this has been mentioned forgive me.

Have you thought about bat and board? Sorry if I spelled that wrong. Basically you but up boards vertically and allow a small gap between them. 1x8 would work, thinker and wider if you like. Then to cover those gaps you put up a 1x1 over them.
I see this look a lot here in the PNW woods.

Here's an example:













ETA: That pic is from http://designedtothenines.com. I have nothing to do with them but I figure credit where it's due and all.


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## PorkChopsMmm

Thanks for the info! I was actually thinking of something similar yesterday. We are contemplating using drywall but because temperatures can be freezing, we will be using a wood stove for heat and temperatures may drop. I have heard from friends that drywall may crack. I was thinking about having the drywall mounted on the wall and instead of having the edges taped and mudded using the "batten" (I believe) to cover the edges where the drywall meets. Not sure if I explained it well or if it would look good. I am going to play with the numbers because where we sit now this is too expensive.

Thanks for the help!



InvalidID said:


> Lot of ideas in here and I am sad to admit I didn't read them all. So if this has been mentioned forgive me.
> 
> Have you thought about bat and board? Sorry if I spelled that wrong. Basically you but up boards vertically and allow a small gap between them. 1x8 would work, thinker and wider if you like. Then to cover those gaps you put up a 1x1 over them.
> I see this look a lot here in the PNW woods.
> 
> Here's an example:
> 
> 
> ETA: That pic is from http://designedtothenines.com. I have nothing to do with them but I figure credit where it's due and all.


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## City Bound

Porkchop that is a lot of dough but it sounds true to what the cost of of materials and labor cost. I would try to persued your wife to go with something cheaper. Try to turn her onto the idea that plow jockey had, or plywood, or dry wall, and if that doesnt work, just tell her that you are not a millionare and that a fancier house takes more dough then you have or are willing to spend. 

My cousin just remodeled her house and they wanted the mc mansion look but they failed to take into account all the finishings and details that add up quick. They seemed to think it was like a fantasy that you could just imagine things and they come true, like some how 50 cents adds up to a dollar and craftsmen are going to give you top quality work cheap and fast like ordering fast food at a drive through. 

I am not saying that applies in your case, but it is a pretty modern way of thinking, and I have been quilty of it at times myself.


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## PorkChopsMmm

Also, I found out there is an Amish lumber mill within 30 miles that can supply us with extremely cheap and beautiful white oak. Everything is wet and would need to be air dried or dried in place so it has limited use. They don't have email or phones and I live 4.5 hours away. I need to find a way to get a hold of someone there and see if they have carpenters who could finish the interior.


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## City Bound

the amish are good carpenters. They usually pay drivers to drive them to the work site. maybe you could strike a deal for a better price if you become their driver and pick them up and drive them back after the work. Maybe they could camp out on your property while they work and you could get a better price, also. Feed them too, that might work.


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## unioncreek

Check the price of OSB vs drywall. In our area we can still get OSB for $4.50 or less and drywall 4x8 sheets is around $7.00. You could then put bead board or something else over the top.

Bob


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## beowoulf90

Here is another idea..

If you are going to use drywall and are worried that the mud will crack from the temps going from one extreme to another. Try using the vinyl spackling instead of the mud..
The vinyl tends to "give" better then regular drywall mud does. We have a 250+ yo home with stone walls, no insulation, we heat with coal/wood stoves only so the temps go from one extreme to the other. The vinyl spackle has held up well over the last 20 years.. The last time I looked a 1 gallon container cost about the same as 5 gallons of mud.. So it is a little more expensive..


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## PorkChopsMmm

Thanks for the info. I will mention the vinyl spackling to our dry wall guy. We are going to pull the trigger on the work with our contractor and put drywall on a few of the interior walls to break up the wood look -- thanks Parttimefarmer! We can't get any other projects done, consider moving in, or invest in other areas until this is done.


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