# 'If You See Something, Say Something'



## stormaq (Oct 26, 2008)

"Homeland Security Expands 'If You See Something, Say Something' Campaign To Walmart"
This is the headline from Channel 40/29 out of Fort Smith AR.

Homeland Security says that a safer homeland starts with a safer hometown. In theory that sounds great, but I can see that getting out of hand real quick. Will I get reported because I happen to have a sack of fertilizer in the back of my truck & I stop at the station to put diesel in the can to take home to fuel up the tractor? Or I happen to buy coffee filters & drain cleaner at the same time? Or if someone thinks I'm buying too much & turns me in because that person thinks it's unusual? 
Now that the government is encouraging everyone to spy on each other, folks, I think we'd all better be careful.:grumble::grumble:


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Sounds so innocent doesn't it? And so needed if that village is going to raise that child.....Thankfully, most people are too busy worrying about what movie to see next or when the newest video game is coming out to look around at others. Of course, there are always those ladies that seem to be born with a knot in their knickers! LOL!! The ones that always know how many people drove up in your driveway while you were gone.....those are the ones to watch out for! And one time living in a small town doesn't have the advantage. City folks don't pay much attention to each other.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

Yep, a google search will get you to some links to pdf's on what to 'watch' for in Farm Stores, Home Improvement Stores, and more locations.


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## stormaq (Oct 26, 2008)

We live in a small town, where everybody knows everybodies business. The news article said that HS was targeting WalMart employees & shoppers. Later in this next year there will be a much larger target with commercials on TV & other chain stores involved. This whole thing does bother me. I'm not buying, making or selling anything illegal, but I just can't help but think WWII Germany. How did so many Jews get rounded up? I know they had to register as Jews, but many were turned in by friends & neighbors. I make me wonder if a lot of us (like on HT) will get turned in because we don't fit the norm.? And being out in a rural area everyone stands out more.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

stormaq - your original post had me thinking of pre WWII Germany and the problems.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

I posted this in anohter thread a week or two ago...

In Romania, during the Ceaucescu regime, an esimated 1 in 7 citizens were informers. Speaking to distant relatives who defected shorly before Ceaucescu and his wife's execution, the numbers of informers was most likely much higher. Rewards of money and food were used to buy 'information' about people's neighbors, coworkers, and even families, which often led to false information being given. Sometimes, entire families would disappear from their homes, and no one dared ask anyone else if they knew what had happened, because that might bring the secret police down on your own family. It led to a society filled with paranoid, frightened citizens. Which was exactly the desired effect.

We don't have to go as far back in history as WWII. We can look at Romania during the 1960s, 70's and 80s.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Wayne, care to post a couple of those links?


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## stormaq (Oct 26, 2008)

seedspreader said:


> Wayne, care to post a couple of those links?


Pretty please.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Next is the sign, "10% off all purchases if you report suspicious behavior."
Stalinist Russia comes to mind where everyone watched everyone all the time and if you reported someone you got a better apartment or more food etc...
Soon there will be 'rewards' for reporting your neighbors...
This carp is what keeps me up nights...
You cannot tick off your neighbor or you get reported.
You have to go to church or you get reported.
You can't just stay home and hide because you will get reported.
You have something a neighbor covets and you get reported.
Aaarrrggghhhhhh........ cringing and sniffling in the corner..


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

When I was a school bus driver, we were required to sit for a training session sponsored by Highway Watch, a division of Homeland Security. They're defunct now, but basically they told us to watch for unusual activities - bus drivers, truckers, delivery trucks go on the same route every day at the same time. We notice if something is strange and different - a guy videotaping a bridge, a large, unfamiliar panel van parked up close to a school or office building, someone running from a building, someone dressed like a ninja.

But this seems a lot more Big Brotherish. I'm sure we already have enough old ladies peeking from their windows, keeping an eye on the goings on.


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## lorian (Sep 4, 2005)

Not good....

But I feel somewhat "used" to this having started homeschooling in the early 90's. We were always worried about being "reported" to the social services...ALL the homeschooling parents were. We learned how to not look suspicious, drilled our kids on the "right" answers to strangers, kept them in the house during school hours, etc...
We worried most of all at angering a neighbor...God forbid we do that and they seek vengence by reporting us.

Now I have a "tongue in cheek" shirt for my youngest, it says:

YES, I'M HOMESCHOOLED

YES, I'M SOCIALIZED

YES, I HAD CLASS TODAY


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

Well, well. Looks like a whole bunch of "domestic extremists" in this thread. Now, where is that email for Big Sis...

Germany. 1933. We are there.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

chickenista said:


> Next is the sign, "10% off all purchases if you report suspicious behavior."
> Stalinist Russia comes to mind where everyone watched everyone all the time and if you reported someone you got a better apartment or more food etc...
> Soon there will be 'rewards' for reporting your neighbors...
> This carp is what keeps me up nights...
> ...


Hey... maybe they can combine the rewards program into those shopper cards.

(ps, don't worry about the "church" one chickenista... the last thing they want for you to do is to go to an independent bible preaching church...)


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

I called Hiway Watch once after seeing 2 obviously middle eastern types switch trucks in the Az desert(no,they were 2 different companies trucks).As we were both cruising fast,I followed one of the trucks 300m......never saw a cop,tsa,etc......so Hiway Watch was typical BS to me.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Personally, I'd say don't even buy b.b.s or pellets there anymore (let alone...),it could get you a phone call or visit.
Matt


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Welcome to the Police State USA...................


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

This is the best reason I can think of for shopping far from home where you are not known, and paying with cash. I don't buy anything I shouldn't buy, but I totally believe that how many beans are in my cabinet are nobody's business but my own.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

This is LA's version, I suspect other areas will be similar, particularly if they push to standardize via DHS programs like is the topic of this thread.

http://www.lapdonline.org/iwatchla/content_basic_view/42535


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I don't see what the harm of it is if every body keeps an eye out? Shouldn't neighbors look out for one another?


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

In the case of Walmart and other similar stores, the Watchmen are primarily the store clerks and store security. 

However, don't think you can stay off the radar by shopping via the internet. Ever consider how much the ups/usps/ et al drivers know about your interests? They could fill the roll of watchmen as well if deemed necessary.


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## salmonslayer (Jan 4, 2009)

> I don't see what the harm of it is if every body keeps an eye out?


How would you like to be a young swarthy male shopping at Walmart, or buying a bunch of ammo on sale, or buying a bunch of sugar or salt for canning, or.....lots of things we do as homesteaders or preppers may seem odd to some. We get weird looks now when we buy washing soda and borax.

I think HLS should just log onto "thepeopleofwalmart.com" lots of suspiciuous characters there.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Does Wal-mart have a "loyalty card", or the cards that K-mart, the grocery store, the hardware store offer for discounts? Credit cards have been itemizng statement for years. Hmmmm...they already know what you buy, and how much.
Tinfoil or "ohhhh dang it, I missed that one?"
Matt


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

ya'll are a paranoid bunch, aren't ya.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

seedspreader said:


> Hey... maybe they can combine the rewards program into those shopper cards.


Now you are talking, if a shopper turns in 2 tips each month, they get 3% off their monthly bill.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

NickieL said:


> ya'll are a paranoid bunch, aren't ya.


Nickie - Yes, and we wonder about folks that come to the forum to make fun of us.

Care to join being aware of how to survive should any of our talks be correct?


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> Nickie - Yes, and we wonder about folks that come to the forum to make fun of us.
> 
> Care to join being aware of how to survive should any of our talks be correct?


I'm not making fun. I just think nobody has anything to worry about as long as they are doing something legal.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

NickieL said:


> I'm not making fun. I just think nobody has anything to worry about as long as they are doing something legal.


NICK LEGALS PRETTY RELATIVE STATEMENT! 

around here if its wrong and they want to do it they pass a law ,making it legal.
long as its "legal" most folks dont question weather or not it really is!


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Nickie, what I worry about is what can happen between them having suspicion and me being proved innocent......


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

think I have a some valid arguments.

by law you have a right to know your accuser. 

many of these tips will be treated as valid.

many will be anonymous, there is no way to subpoena a Anonymous source. 

If something is truly wrong then you need to put your name to it. many will not. 

that does not mean Law enforcement will back off of it. 

many false accusations are made daily to all kinds of offices, some act as though they are formal charges.

again you have the right to know your accuser.

law enforcement normally knows what is happening where and by who. so these phone tips only reinforce that. or give additional info sometimes. but only legally goes so far.

a big issue is anyone can call in info, payphone pre pay cell so forth, so lets say I am a LEO of some sort.
I have a investigation or am getting pressured to bring someone down, I call in a hot tip so I can act on it. whos the wiser?


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## insocal (May 15, 2005)

I don't think preppers have a thing to worry about. As long as you aren't wearing "muslim attire" nobody in the US will give a hoot what you do. Buying in bulk and spending vast sums on groceries is the NORM for a lot of people these days. Uncle Sam has groomed us to fear "terraists", not folks who stock up on rice and beans.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

On one of the California CCW web sites that I post at, when a person gets their CCW license - as a rite of passage they go to Wally World get them some 'Nachos'. Then they go for a stroll in the store while legally packing their CCW weapon. 

So do us folks with a CCW weapon are now going have to worry about folks calling in a suspicious person report??

Gosh, I wonder if I will now be surrounded by law enforcement when I get dressed in my Marine Corps Dress Blues Uniform and carry a M-1 Garand Rifle out in public while in a Parade, at a Ceremony, or at a Military Funaral? It is a good thing that most of the law enforcement officers in the area know me, and I am not a known trouble maker!!!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

chickenista said:


> Next is the sign, "10% off all purchases if you report suspicious behavior."
> Stalinist Russia comes to mind where everyone watched everyone all the time and if you reported someone you got a better apartment or more food etc...
> Soon there will be 'rewards' for reporting your neighbors...
> This carp is what keeps me up nights...
> ...


Mind your own business, and don't socialize with the neighbors, get reported.
Stay home from church, but follow what Scripture says, get reported.
Buy more than one can of soup, get reported.
Have more than 2 kids, get reported.
IF you do not have a perfectly manicured law, get reported.
Home school? Get reported.
Refuse vaccines? Reported.
Live debt free, and pay cash.......get reported FAST!!

Really, if you do not 'blend in' with the other sheep, if you stick out in ANY kind of way......you will, be, reported.


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

Really not much to worry about until you see a separate "security" organization established.
Most if not all City, County,Township LEO are quite busy with other matters. Most are understaffed. With the economy getting worse, larceny and sholifting calls have increased. Bogus accident and Motor vehicle theft reports are up. (insurance money) 
That goes along with all the Do-Dah work thats necessary(not really) 
And yet still most here don't get it anyway. The LEO's are no different then you. They are worried about the economy. Most live paycheck to paycheck. They have spouse and kids that ride their a#$ just like you. And they think thier bosses are douchebags that don't have a clue what its like to be on the street these days. 

People have been calling in forever on suspicious behavior. They do it every day. I was reported for buying a pallet of canning jars (in moonshine country) 11 years ago. It was a good laugh. When a person reports something to me like " he has gas tanks stored in his garage" or "he has a lot of guns everywhere in his house" I usually go straight to the complaint, and talk with them about "some suspicious activity" in the neighborhood while talking to the person I point and look in the general direction of the complainant. Knowing full well they are watching through a cracked blind or something. End of future complains from them and no hard feelings from the neighbore.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

http://www.necn.com/12/07/10/Securi...ng_newengland.html?blockID=368064&feedID=4206

http://www2.wjbf.com/news/2010/dec/06/department-homeland-security-partners-wal-mart-sto-ar-1175463/

http://www.4029tv.com/r/26035819/detail.html

http://www.dhs.gov/ynews/releases/pr_1278023105905.shtm

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czoww2l1xdw[/ame]

Who's definition of suspicious activity do we use? The last link I posted is the link to the video that will be played at Wal-Mart checkouts.

This is from the next to the last link: "The reporting system does not and will not focus on the gender or ethnicity of individuals" and in the first link it was stated that most of the reports were unfounded but all would be treated as if they were worth investigating. (that was by the MTBA but the program is the same)


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Great, my idiot nasty neighbors already think I am suspicious and need watching because I own 2 houses. God forbid they should see me at Wal-mart and decide my purchases there are suspicious. 

Nickie, there is a tremendous possibility for abuse with this system. As has already been stated some people think you are a suspicious person for sharing their same air-space. The person reporting the activity could be lying and how do you protect yourself against a lie. Or say you buy a couple bricks of ammo before a target shooting session and some person reports you. You will forever after have a "history" which can never be erased with the dept of Homeland Security. It smacks too much of communist Russia where people were turning others in for stupid stuff and blatant lies. Bad enough to have the govt spying on us and tracking purchases but to have the sheeple deciding what is suspicious and what isn't is simply WRONG!


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Nickie you can proceed in your prim and proper world thinking you have "done no wrong" . . .then for no reason that you can figure out the HS thugs are at your door.. . . .your world will be turned upside down . . because you are guilty until proven innocent. . . .Can you afford several thousand bucks for an attorney to prove that you are "prim and proper" . . . .
Most of us can't.


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

NickieL said:


> I'm not making fun. I just think nobody has anything to worry about as long as they are doing something legal.


The problem is, I doubt it will stay that innocent. For now it is, but gradually we're giving up freedoms. Giving up freedoms in the name of "security." I would sooner be free than secure rather than secure and no freedoms. The problem with government is they don't take things all at once. They do it gradually over time and they start with the little innocent things that nobody blinks at. It's called desensitizing.


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## barelahh (Apr 13, 2007)

Jim-mi said:


> Nickie you can proceed in your prim and proper world thinking you have "done no wrong" . . .then for no reason that you can figure out the HS thugs are at your door.. . . .your world will be turned upside down . . because you are guilty until proven innocent. . . .Can you afford several thousand bucks for an attorney to prove that you are "prim and proper" . . . .
> Most of us can't.


You assume that you will get an attorney and not disappear into the vaults. IF they classify you as a enemy combatant or a terrorist or any number of classifications, you don't get a lawyer or even a phone call.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

"Indicators"? "Suspicious activity?"

Let's see.... wonder how many muslim terrorists (and I say muslim not to be political, but because those are the people who have a proven, factual history of attacking or plotting attacking the US) have bought their terrorist supplies at Wally World?

Think the 9/11 hijackers bought their stuff at WM? What about the Shoe Bomber? The Underwear Bomber? Does Wal Mart carry bomb making items? What about Nidal Hassan? Think he bought the ammo he killed and wounded all those soldiers with at the Ft. Hood Wally World? 

This is a blatant grab at controlling the populace that has NOTHING to do with preventing terrorists. Terrorists aren't obtaining their expolsives or ammunition at Wal Mart. This is nothing more than a foot in the door for the government to begin implementing a domestic informer system, whereby people spy on eachother. Soon it will be viewed as being acceptable to spy on eachother, even patriotic. You know, "do YOUR part to help keep America safe!" with Uncle Sam pointing his finger at you. I can just see the ads now. And what better place to implement this plan but Wal Mart? Millions of customers in stores around the country on a daily basis, many of them gullible and ignorant. And if that isn't enough, imagine how many more state police the gvmt. is going to have to hire in order to handle what is going to be an absolute landslide of 'tips'. And let's be honest here, how many of those are going to be from 'thepeopleofwalmart', who everyone makes fun of, making crank complaints against their family, friends, and neighbors? 

I suppose this will give a completely new meaning to "Thepeopleofwalmart.com", won't it?


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

We've got a clock that plays a Christmas carol on the hour. 

One of the diddies it plays is Jingle Bells. My wife and kids started singing "overstock Dot Com" to it. Why? Because it's been on a commercial that plays on our local station during the nightly news regularly. 

It's seeped into their thoughts because it's background noise.

THAT'S what this is about. 

They aren't expecting to pick anyone up at Walmart. They want to normalize the message first, hitting as many people as they can while they are focused on other things. Start it out as background noise, etc. 

Once the message in normalized and internalized, THEN direction comes and the sliding of the window takes place.

It's just like the body scans.

You remember those... big deal, what... a week ago? Media declared it a non-issue when they made it through the busiest travel day, Thanksgiving. 

Was it accidental that it was instituted en masse right before Thanksgiving.

What are people going to do? Protest, miss their flight, hold up everyone else from seeing gramma and eating pumpkin pie??? No, most American's are good people and just want to live a hassle free life.

Unfortunately, we're past that point. Hassle free lives will be the death knoll of true freedom in this country.

"Freedom" is being used to bind us. In the name of "Freedom" and "safety" we wrap ourselves in chains.

I've heard people right here say that "we don't have a right to fly".


Why not? Says who?

What exactly does the "right to travel" pertain to? Foot traffic? Horse? Cart??? Bicycle?


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## salmonslayer (Jan 4, 2009)

I saw a suspicious woman today at Walmart buying ammo, ferilyzer, and strike anywhere matches and I about called it in until I realized it was just my wife.


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

If I see that showing at my local WalMart, I will complain. LOUDLY. And to the manager. 

I suggest you ALL DO THE SAME.

Your power is your voice. Be heard.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

seedspreader said:


> We've got a clock that plays a Christmas carol on the hour.
> 
> One of the diddies it plays is Jingle Bells. My wife and kids started singing "overstock Dot Com" to it. Why? Because it's been on a commercial that plays on our local station during the nightly news regularly.
> 
> ...


You are so very right...unfortunately.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Pouncer said:


> If I see that showing at my local WalMart, I will complain. LOUDLY. And to the manager.
> 
> I suggest you ALL DO THE SAME.
> 
> Your power is your voice. Be heard.


You are right of course.. however, I fear it is your loud voice in protest against what they want that will label you as suspicious...
but I agree with the protest and I understand that some of us will have to pay a price in order to stop the insanity...be safe. I continue to ask myself and others.. Are you willing to lose it all to save it all?


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

..Chinamart is Evil . .


And the attitude of the 'shoppers' . . . ."I could care less . .gotta get my trinkets"

I will not bother typing my opinion of the mindless people who 'shop' there (it would get deleted).

So this is why the 'message boards' are starting at chinamart . . . .they have a mind boggling base of millions of mindless peoples?? . . . . . .
This sure will stack the deck against those of us who still can 'think'

. .BOYCOTT the EVIL chinamart............................


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## TacticalTrout (Jan 7, 2010)

It's been about 10 years now since I've been in a Wal-Mart but I am sure that this program will be such a success that it will be rolled out to other retailers and before long will necessitate the hiring of more and more DHS agents to follow up on all the leads. Maybe I'll start getting e-mail spam for becoming a "mystery agent" in place of the "mystery shopper" spam that I get now. A couple of credible threats, whether real or .gov falsified for media mileage, and the next thing you know you'll be subject to screening to get in to Wal-Mart or Tractor Supply.


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## Becka (Mar 15, 2008)

Danaus29 said:


> Who's definition of suspicious activity do we use?


This is what I don't understand. What exactly is "suspicious behavior?" Shoplifting? Stocking up on TP? Homeschoolers shopping with their kids during school hours? Purchasing certain products? Open carry? Paying with cash?

Who gets to decide, and how? More importantly, WHY? If the store is worried about security, why do they bother to hire security guards? It just doesn't make sense to me.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Isn't anybody at all curious how many times this thread or some others have been "reported"?


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

radiofish said:


> On one of the California CCW web sites that I post at, when a person gets their CCW license - as a rite of passage they go to Wally World get them some 'Nachos'. Then they go for a stroll in the store while legally packing their CCW weapon.
> 
> So do us folks with a CCW weapon are now going have to worry about folks calling in a suspicious person report??


Don't think so if the gun is concealed nobody should know about it.

Some folks in WA open carry as it's legal here. I suspect a person openly carrying a firearm might get some busy bodies calling them in under this program, even though what they are doing is perfectly legal.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

DaleK said:


> Isn't anybody at all curious how many times this thread or some others have been "reported"?


How many?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

DaleK said:


> Isn't anybody at all curious how many times this thread or some others have been "reported"?


To whom? 

and some you are worried about, probably are already members here. Maybe?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Aintlifegrand said:


> How many?


More than once.

Here is a link to the specific DHS press release video that will be played in Wal-marts at the checkout lines.

http://www.dhs.gov/ynews/releases/pr_1291648380371.shtm

(Warning: Don't watch it if you think you may experience nausea while watching Janet Napolitano speak.)

I have browsed the DHS website and saw no sign of any actual training material which would help a shopper identify "suspicious activity". I believe this is deliberate and they wish to cast as wide of a net as possible. You could in fact generate a call if there was something in your cart that your fellow Walmart shopper might not recognize. (Ball Canning jars, a few jugs of lye, or an excessive amount of batteries.)

I took the action of calling DHS directly (their press office) and asking some questions. The woman answering the phone has been instructed NOT to answer any questions. Kind of peculiar for a press office, don't you think? She directed me to an email address and I sent the following email. I will post their response here.

---
Greetings! I am a correspondent with the independent press and I was hoping you could answer a couple of quick questions regarding the recent campaign being rolled out to Walmart stores. I am on a deadline and was hoping to get a response by the end of today so I can get this submitted no later than tomorrow.



Without further delay, here are the questions:



1. Shoppers are being asked to report suspicious activity. What training material is being given to the public to help them identify what suspicious activity looks like?

2. Are these calls anonymous or are the callers themselves accountable for filing reports?

3. Does a call generated by this program grant authority to your agency to launch an official investigation, including search warrants or is that being handled on a case by case basis?

4. What mechanisms are in place to prevent people from filing false reports in order to harass others?



Thank you for your speedy response.
---

Some of you are starting to get it. This is what I've been warning you about for YEARS. It's now coming to pass. Some of you are still deliberately "not getting it". Your willful ignorance of the situation will not save you.


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## TacticalTrout (Jan 7, 2010)

Ernie said:


> (Warning: Don't watch it if you think you may experience nausea while watching Janet Napolitano speak.)


Not to make light, but I almost did throw up in my mouth a little. I really don't like that woman. Her and Nancy P both give me the willies. In fairness there are plenty of other political figures in the Federal Gov and in my state and localities that give me the willies as well...both male and female (not wanting to single out two females).

Thanks, Ernie, for taking the time to make the call and send the e-mail. I, for one, will be looking forward to any updates you can provide.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Thanks for coming back to this Ernie -
unfortunately, we may need more knowledge of your sort more often as things are going along.

You need to check out this thread, 
Tracking Children on School Buses
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=375765
it's about something being tested at one of the schools locally.

Angie


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

seedspreader is spot on in post #40, it is more indoctrination in to the police state.

some of these things start out with the best intentions, case in point and I think one of the precursors "Americas most wanted" which has been followed by tons of other law and court shows. the more you see the more often you see it the more you are desensitized and its just business as normal. 

seems the public just eats these types of shows up or do they? sure are tons out there.

in the same respect the crime show programing is a huge market and has been since the gangster era, but there has always been a love a affair there. Jesse James and gunslingers and desperado's where the the stuff of legend and song. 

I think that one avenue supports the other, things that are not the norm are encouraged though media, lots of things in this world did not exist or where not done untill someone seen it and then emulated it. then you have have the people that believe everything they see is true and happens all the time.

its amazing how much emotion that a movie or program can evoke from individuals. 

I think its called programing for a reason.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

salmonslayer said:


> I saw a suspicious woman today at Walmart buying ammo, ferilyzer, and strike anywhere matches and I about called it in until I realized it was just my wife.


I was readin' along, all serious.. and you made me ound:


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## DavisHillFarm (Sep 12, 2008)

seedspreader said:


> They aren't expecting to pick anyone up at Walmart. They want to normalize the message first, hitting as many people as they can while they are focused on other things. Start it out as background noise, etc.
> 
> Once the message in normalized and internalized, THEN direction comes and the sliding of the window takes place.
> 
> ...





Aintlifegrand said:


> You are so very right...unfortunately.


It is so easy to *condition* citizens who have been dumbed down by our educational institutions, whom no longer can think for themselves.

With each passing day we are slipping further into tyranny.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

Partial list for Farm Store:



> What should I consider suspicious?
> 
> - Acting nervous or impatient
> 
> ...


Partial list for Home Improvement and large retail stores:



> What should I consider suspicious?
> 
> - Large quantity of watches, electronic timers, or kitchen timers
> 
> ...


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Now that's a crock! I frequently buy large quantities of matches. And any good hunter knows you should have your arms bought and tested long before any hunting season opens. Guess I won't be buying LR .22's at Wal-Mart in the spring (just when the groundhogs start devouring the garden) any more. 

As for the tank size and spray range, aren't those standard questions when one is buying spraying equipment?????


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

Wayne02, where did you find that?

Thank you.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

DaleK said:


> Isn't anybody at all curious how many times this thread or some others have been "reported"?


Nope, I don't lose sleep over it.

Do I like what's going on with our country? No, but I refuse to kowtow to the fear factor and let it affect how I live my life to any great degree. (other than being actively engaged in rebuking this type of thing through being involved in the electorate process, communicating with my reps and anybody else involved, spending my dollars with outfits that work against this type of thing, spending my dollars with businesses who don't support this type of thing, etc)

I am a law abiding citizen and refuse to live my life in hiding, as that is no way to live life, and the last time I checked, we only get one go-around. 

Those who think they are off the radar are likely fooling themselves. Those who have been off the radar for some time now, 'might' have a leg to stand on in this regard. The unfortunate fact is we leave our footprints just about everywhere we go, and with this internet thingy and electronic communication it would not be hard for anybody with some training in intelligence to put together 'behavior profiles' on just about anybody. And fellow citizens reporting 'suspicious behavior' can become just another data point.

Just about every transaction most people make can be a data point that contributes to that profile. Every time you buy something from a store, ship/receive a package, make an inquiry call, ask a question, make statements on the internet, post pictures on the internet, etc, can be a data point. Our electronically connected society allows for this if it is deemed necessary by somebody. (again, not that I agree with this, just that this is the reality we face)

So, I choose to live and enjoy my life without incessant worry over this type of stuff degrading the quality of my life.

I do have to go now because it sounds like somebody is at the door...


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

Pouncer said:


> Wayne02, where did you find that?
> Thank you.


It's in the link I posted earlier in the thread. Takes you to LAPD's local version of this and provides a list of pdf's that you can pull up for various categories such as 'Farm Store' etc. You have to click on the category from the list to open the pdf.


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## Patt (May 18, 2003)

Ok I am kind of torn on this one.  

On the one hand I can see the government's point, we are supposedly fighting terrorism here correct? And the only reason we have not had another attack according to some thinking is due to the vigilance of our government in foiling terrorist plots. So this seems reasonable from that perspective. We need everyone to watch out. 

On the other hand to me the whole thing seems more like an exercise in futility and a way for the government to say look we are doing something to keep you safe that in reality won't do anything at all. Considering the caliber of both the shoppers and the management at our local Wallyworld when I am occasionally forced to go there I think it is safe to say they won't be foiling any plots anytime soon. And the government at best will have to wade through a whole lot of utterly time wasting calls from little old ladies who watch too much TV and are expecting the terrorists to come and burn down their houses any day now. 

As for the comparisons to Communist Russia and such I wonder what you would have thought about war time messages from right here in the good old USA? Plenty of the same sort thing in Fifth columnist posters and messages.


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## stormaq (Oct 26, 2008)

I know there are some who think some of us are nuts & are being paranoid. And that what we are concerned about would never happen in the US, only in Germany and other countries. Well it has happened here. My husband reminded me that in the early 50's people (the general population of the US) were encouraged to report their friends, family & neighbors to the FBI if they thought that these people may be Communists. It wasn't just a very few people that were reported. It was a LOT of people that had to endure being suspected of being Communists.

People are just as dumb & blind now as they were in the 50's.

I started this thread because I felt very strongly about this, who wrong it is and I wanted all of the HT people to be aware of what is happening.

I posted on FB about the 'See something, say somthing' campain. There was not one single comment about it. 
Most people are nothing more than sheep.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Seedspreader - your comment about the Christmas Carol Clock, and your family now using a commerical jingle makes a point of the psychology of advertising..

If you have ever noticed when a new commerical campaign comes out, it usually starts as a 60 second commerical. Then after flooding the airwaves they will cut it back as a 30 second commerical, so as to make you subconscousially(sp?) fill in the missing blank spots and reinforce their product marketing! 
So that is why your family is singing the "Overstock dot com" jingle...

Yesterday while I was in the bank along with some other heavily armed folks (merchants) waiting in line for an available teller, somehow the subject of 'domestic terrorists' came up. Oh, it may have been over the Unabomber's property in Montana being for sale for an outrageous price. Not all of those "bad folks" out there worship a different diety, have swarthy complexions, and come from another continent. Even one of the tellers got in on the conversation, and she stated "that she has to report any blatent suspicious activity, inside the bank" to the authorities.

But Wally World wanting their customers to 'drop a dime' on any suspicious activity, is a bit much. Luckily the nearest Wally World store is about 200 miles R/T from here, and I only visit one of them when I travel far from home.

Now I wonder if when I put on my USMC Dress Blues Uniform to participate in the annual 'Toys For Tots' Marine Corps Reserve Toy Drive in front of a local store (in a very Liberal town) - will someone call the authorities on me as being a suspicious character? 

http://www.toysfortots.org/

Should I not do my scheduled volunteer duty this coming weekend, in order to stay off the radar? 
Maybe I should ask for a change of assignment, and be placed at the local Fire Station instead?
Now I could see having complaints being made, if I were soliciting donations at the end of a bayonet tipped rifle!!


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Yup Radiofish, that's why I mentioned it (the overstock dot com thing).


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Ernie said:


> More than once.
> 
> Here is a link to the specific DHS press release video that will be played in Wal-marts at the checkout lines.
> 
> ...


POTDA!!!!!:goodjob:


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Homeland Security, what a joke. Created in someones imagination and established by "Presidential Order". Nothing to do with the Constitution of The United States of America.

Just another device designed to circumvent the Constitution. If we are willing to give up Liberty to get security we will have neither.:croc:


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

It's another step downward, into who knows what but it is not a place I want to go. And I don't want my children going either.

I don't think this is going to go over very well up here in Alaska. There is a survivalist mind set (or there used to be, before the influx of people from L48) and most people are pretty private. Many many people buy stuff in large quantities who live remote. It is common to have generators, well stocked freezers and lots of groceries on hand. But there are enough sheeple locally that I can see where some problems are going to arise should the local WalMart stores start doing this. It's going to be a big stink, to be sure.


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## Patt (May 18, 2003)

So what do y'all think about the Red scare and America under McCarthy? I think that was way worse than anything we have seen since.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

We could always shop at stores where they do not show the "Janet" on "in house" TV.:shrug:


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## TacticalTrout (Jan 7, 2010)

Patt said:


> So what do y'all think about the Red scare and America under McCarthy? I think that was way *worse than anything we have seen since.*


Patience...


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

Patt said:


> So what do y'all think about the Red scare and America under McCarthy? I think that was way worse than anything we have seen since.


I respectfully submit some things to think about:

What was the size of the FBI and related bureaucracies at that time? What is the size and budget - adjusted for inflation - of DHS, FBI and related bureaucracies today? Not much computing power in the '50's, LOTS of computing power and ability to electronically track people today. Think about advertisers and the technology they used to target their markets in the '50's and the reams of VERY accurate data they have today. The State has access to that, too, no matter what Google and other information collectors may say.

This isn't 1950. We are a great deal more vulnerable from food supply to our dependence on oil and electricity.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

A couple of months after the 9/11 attack, I was shopping at WalMart and saw an unattended backpack sitting in one of the food aisles. I was still rather raw regarding terrorism, so I located an employee and reported it. (I believe the whole anthrax thing was going on at the same time.)

The employee basically ignored me. She said okay, I'll tell someone, but it was obvious that she had no intention of doing anything at all about it. So I won't bother the WalMart employees with my concerns again.

IMO, the government is doing this so that the blame can be deflected back on the public if something happens. (You saw it but didn't report it, so it's your fault!) Because this is so much easier and cheaper than actually doing something substantive, like closing the leaky borders, like increasing the number of law enforcement personnel and improving their training, like refusing visas to suspected criminals and kicking their butts out of the country. 

Until the PTB begin looking at being in this country as a privilege rather than a right, encouraging a nation of tattle tales will not solve the problems and will only create vastly more of them.


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## stormaq (Oct 26, 2008)

jlrbhjmnc said:


> I respectfully submit some things to think about:
> 
> What was the size of the FBI and related bureaucracies at that time? What is the size and budget - adjusted for inflation - of DHS, FBI and related bureaucracies today? Not much computing power in the '50's, LOTS of computing power and ability to electronically track people today. Think about advertisers and the technology they used to target their markets in the '50's and the reams of VERY accurate data they have today. The State has access to that, too, no matter what Google and other information collectors may say.
> 
> This isn't 1950. We are a great deal more vulnerable from food supply to our dependence on oil and electricity.


Very true & scary.


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## Patt (May 18, 2003)

jlrbhjmnc said:


> I respectfully submit some things to think about:
> 
> What was the size of the FBI and related bureaucracies at that time? What is the size and budget - adjusted for inflation - of DHS, FBI and related bureaucracies today? Not much computing power in the '50's, LOTS of computing power and ability to electronically track people today. Think about advertisers and the technology they used to target their markets in the '50's and the reams of VERY accurate data they have today. The State has access to that, too, no matter what Google and other information collectors may say.
> 
> This isn't 1950. We are a great deal more vulnerable from food supply to our dependence on oil and electricity.


Ok those are valid points.  But realistically throughout American history there have been plenty of times when you were quite likely to be hauled off after being reported by your neighbor for one thing or another. During WWII if you were Japanese or Italian or German, during WWI if you were German or a possible spy, during the 50's if you were a communist sympathiser, on and on. Do you actually know of anybody who has been dragged off after being reported today? You are far less likely to be dragged off today than really at any other point in American history.


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

Patt said:


> Ok those are valid points.  But realistically throughout American history there have been plenty of times when you were quite likely to be hauled off after being reported by your neighbor for one thing or another. During WWII if you were Japanese or Italian or German, during WWI if you were German or a possible spy, during the 50's if you were a communist sympathiser, on and on. Do you actually know of anybody who has been dragged off after being reported today? You are far less likely to be dragged off today than really at any other point in American history.


You correctly note the internment of American citizens during WWII. But we will have to disagree about the likelihood of being arrested and jailed today. Food for thought: all of the thousands of detainments made by the TSA in just the last few weeks. Short detainments, but the victims were not free to leave and had no benefit of being read their rights or having any contact with an attorney.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Here's a parody of the Homeland Security message. Slightly risque photos, but generally rated PG. I'm glad the regular media sees the original message for the joke it is:

http://www.naturalnews.tv/v.asp?v=5A4B5D4B84344D5D9CBD262A53D8B071


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## Illini (Apr 13, 2009)

And, from my neck of the woods, the City of Galesburg brings you "The Trash Police."

http://www.galesburg.com/topstories/x1757252104/Trash-drivers-to-report-suspicious-activities


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

d1337 said:


> Patience...


The power and accuracy of one word!
You nailed it!


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

NickieL said:


> I don't see what the harm of it is if every body keeps an eye out? Shouldn't neighbors look out for one another?


With all due respect, "looking out for" doesn't include "reporting".

"Looking out for" means, if you see someone in need, you help, you lend a hand, you care and get involved in helping that person. "Reporting" means you saw something that YOU judged "unacceptable" and called in the authorities.

Two very, very different kettles of fish, IMHO.

Every time I hear the term "Homeland Security" I think of 1930s Germany. They've already got children reporting their parents to the authorities ("You're not allowed to discipline me, my teacher said so, I'll call the police on you" ) and neighbors turning in neighbors ( "His grass is too long, his house is the wrong color, he doesn't shovel his walkway" ). There are already reward programs that use food and gifts as rewards for giving information ( "give us your friend's names and addresses and we'll send you..." ) if people are already used to giving information on others, what's the difference?

We are living in a very, very different culture than we were even fifteen or twenty years ago. It's now approaching Orwellian levels, and guess what? We built it, in the name of "safety" and "security".


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> With all due respect, "looking out for" doesn't include "reporting".
> 
> "Looking out for" means, if you see someone in need, you help, you lend a hand, you care and get involved in helping that person. "Reporting" means you saw something that YOU judged "unacceptable" and called in the authorities.
> 
> ...


If more Americans got it like the Canadians I know do, then we'd be in better shape for the coming fight.

Anyone who says they're looking out for me by turning me into homeland security, or the SPLC, or CPS, or any other government agency, is _just as culpable_ in whatever crime that agency commits against me and should bear the same retribution.

We've been trained and conditioned to call the government into all matters that we deem to be disagreeable. Now we've built the government that can handle all disagreeable matters with the same swift mechanisms of violent force.

I have to ask just what some of you think survivalism is all about. Storing extra flashlight batteries so you can read the government propaganda until they come rescue you? 

The public has been dumbed down to the point that they can't recognize the Orwellian future until they're living it. Guess what? It's _here._ You'd better learn to protect yourselves from it. A couple of million "good Soviet citizens" died in the gulag wondering what they'd done to end up there. They'd supported the party. They'd done everything they were supposed to. How could their government do this to them? Turns out they just weren't quite exactly what the government's plan called for and so they were eliminated.


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## Illini (Apr 13, 2009)

Along the lines of Ernie's post, here is a commentary from the Rutherford Institute - "Founded in 1982 by constitutional attorney and author John W. Whitehead, The Rutherford Institute is a civil liberties organization that provides free legal services to people whose constitutional and human rights have been threatened or violated." The piece is regarding Wal-mart's and other businesses' partnering with the government to create what the author calls a "corporate police state."

http://www.rutherford.org/articles_db/commentary.asp?record_id=688


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I scanned through the article quickly and this paragraph about 1/2 way down or better, jumped out at me:



> For those who can read the writing on the wall, the message is clear: weâre living in a corporate police state. The government has taken on the identity of the corporation, which exists to make money and amass power--not protect freedoms. Moreover, once we become an informer society, spying on our fellow citizens and turning them over to government agents at the least suspicion of wrong-doing, no matter how unfounded, we will have relinquished our last claim to being a free people.


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## Shrarvrs88 (May 8, 2010)

I have really enjoyed reading this topic and have some interesting things to talk to hubs about later. Thank you for posting this.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Every time I read this I wonder what would have happened if the clerks at Lowes would have considered it suspicious that I bought 2 monster packs of AA batteries on Black Friday. We use a lot of AA and they were really cheap.


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## Patt (May 18, 2003)

Danaus29 said:


> Every time I read this I wonder what would have happened if the clerks at Lowes would have considered it suspicious that I bought 2 monster packs of AA batteries on Black Friday. We use a lot of AA and they were really cheap.


Doesn't everybody with kids buy a ton of batteries at Christmas?


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

meth cooks obtain something from certain batteries? I'm was told that at least, do not really know for sure.


here ya go , anything on this list could get you reported and a visit and much of this stuff is available at your local wally world and most do have legit uses besides the scourge.


http://citizensagainstmeth.org/meth_ingredients.html


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

We already have to show id to purchase brake cleaner and ds's allergy medicine. The pharmacy records your driver's license number whenever you buy Sudafed. Instead of the criminals being stopped, legitimate purchasers are penalized.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Danaus29 said:


> We already have to show id to purchase brake cleaner and ds's allergy medicine. The pharmacy records your driver's license number whenever you buy Sudafed. Instead of the criminals being stopped, legitimate purchasers are penalized.


You are right. I have to sign to get sinus meds that were over the counter. Sometime, I wish we could let the methers do themselves in, then the problem would be self curing. BUT, in the process they probably would hurt others that happen to be around them, and that I do not go for at all. So, here we are...


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Ernie, any reply? I doubt it...
See the other thread about this topic. 
Think about what we were talking about a year ago, this is over the top....


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

||Downhome|| said:


> http://citizensagainstmeth.org/meth_ingredients.html


Are they going to cross reference your purchases? We've been know to buy "large" quantities of some of those items, but from different sources at different times, as I'm too cheap to pass up a good price on some things.

But then I'm sure we are already on "the list" as we are members here and other such forums.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

tab said:


> Ernie, any reply? I doubt it...
> See the other thread about this topic.
> Think about what we were talking about a year ago, this is over the top....


No reply at all. I sent a follow up email yesterday to which I've also received (surprise) no reply.

It appears your government doesn't believe it has to be responsive to the people.


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