# Top Bar Hive



## Jhn56 (Oct 11, 2011)

I just received my ordered plans in the mail from backyardhive.com and plan to start building a pair of top bar hives after the holidays. The plans I ordered are for the Golden Mean Hive.

I saw reference to their site a few times here at the forum and was wondering if anyone has actually followed their plans? I've never kept bees before so I'll spend some time reading up on the subject over the winter. I'm thinking beekeeping for dummies unless someone can steer me towards a good book geared to the TB Hives.

I have a few Q's before I get started...
With some 5/4 cedar on hand, I was hoping to use it but the BYH site doesn't recommend using cedar, their reasoning is the tannins in the wood. I've read otherwise around the Internet, but I'd like to hear some firsthand experience from others using cedar before I start building.

I need to tweek the (plans) measurements to compensate for the added thickness of the 5/4 vs 3/4. Aside from that I was surprised to see the plans call for a solid bottom board. Would y'all recommend building it with a screened bottom with a slide-in type winter bottom board since I'm starting from scratch? 

I plan to call around and order a few packages for spring, is there a specific type of bee I should be looking for as a rookie? Both hives are gonna be located a few hundred feet from the house, closer to or possibly along back edge of the garden. Which option would be best, full sun, partial or mostly shade?

Thanks in advance for any help:thumb:


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## Jhn56 (Oct 11, 2011)

Made a few inquiries for live bees for the spring and heard back from 1 so far. A 3# package with queen (Italian) is $125...this particular seller is about 60 miles away, does the price sound about right?

Also sent the membership form/2015 dues away this AM, joined the local branch of the NJBA.

After a bit more searching around on the Internet, I've decided I'm gonna use my stocked cedar. Plan to build the hives mid January, and let them sit to weather/air out until April. Just do it! Right?


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## Buffy in Dallas (May 10, 2002)

I checked out the Golden Mean Hive back when I was first starting out. The only problem I have with them is they are too small. My hives are four ft long and both of them filled completely and had to be split in just the first season. With a hive that small, you would be having to split it constantly. Well, at least with the bees I had. Or I suppose you could just let it swarm a lot. You might think about making it longer.


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## SueMc (Jan 10, 2010)

$125 each for 3 nucs is what I paid last Fall for Spring 2014 nucs.
I don't have top bars so am no help there. I plan on trying to have one some day.


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## Jhn56 (Oct 11, 2011)

Buffy in Dallas said:


> I checked out the Golden Mean Hive back when I was first starting out. The only problem I have with them is they are too small. My hives are four ft long and both of them filled completely and had to be split in just the first season. With a hive that small, you would be having to split it constantly. Well, at least with the bees I had. Or I suppose you could just let it swarm a lot. You might think about making it longer.


Even with the wider 17" top bars on the Golden Mean Hive, at just 26" long (inside#) I thought that seemed small. With mostly 12' stock, I could make them both either 3' or 4' long each with minimal waste. Sounds like 4' would be best, but do you think stretching the length to 3' would be sufficient? That would make it roughly 30% bigger. Thanks for both the hive and cost inputs!


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## Buffy in Dallas (May 10, 2002)

I think 3 ft would work. You can always split the hive or harvest some honey if it gets full.


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## beegrowing (Apr 1, 2014)

No; 3 feet is Hard for a first year beek to manage in a GM top bar.Later they are a Great bee factory for new hives. LOL Buffy, but I did it and it was stessful! You have to learn way too much....about your personal bees,local flows and getting inspections in order and so much more..... and the bees will "get ahead" of you with a Golden Mean the first year!
I wrote the OP a PM about my experiences but wanted to add that I did have my husband build mine from their blueprint Adding a swing-down bottom section below screen (that was enclosed with a solid bottom) so I could check mite drop with a greased paper under the screen. It's very useful but would over-ventilate if left open and I've kept mine closed (even it hot weather....but I also use a shade canopy) so the bees can ventilate themselves and just added a small vent screen hole in the back top.
Since my bees swarmed first year in my GM they "made" a local mutt queen and she's thrived. With top bars and the attempt to "go natural" as much as possible, there is a lot to be said for getting local genetics in there! My mutts have thrived and I got over a gallon of honey from them my Second year. Those of us with TBs are not usually sellers----we want homestead honey. It's a very fun way of beekeeping for those of us that don't want to lift heavy boxes and just want personal honey. Best Wishes!


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

Yay! Hadn't seen this thread before. Backyardhives is what got me thinking bee keeping was actually possible for me even without space to store a bunch of equipment. My first was on the balcony of our townhome and I worked the bees with no suit or veil. Having gone out with a local beek to capture a couple swarms before hand (one of which he gave me to start mine up) boosted my confidence a lot.

I have built 6-7 of the GM TBHs (I keep three and have given the others away) and like them a lot. It's true that they're small and the hives swarm often but that's part of the joy of bee keeping in my book. We get more than we need from them. I find that the smaller size is easy to manage. I've had to move mine several times and I can't imagine trying to pick up a four foot hive. Buffy must be buff...


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## Buffy in Dallas (May 10, 2002)

BohemianWaxwing said:


> I've had to move mine several times and I can't imagine trying to pick up a four foot hive. Buffy must be buff...


Giggle...I wish. Actually I'm waiting for my disability to be approved. It does help to have 3 grown sons to help move stuff around when needed. :thumb: This is why I went with the Top bar hive to start with. The only thing I have to lift is one bar at a time. Even I can lift that. 

beegrowing- Around here local genetics are dangerous. I had to kill my two hives because they requeened themselves and got africanized. They slowly got more aggressive over the summer and finally killed two of my ducks before I whacked them. :awh:


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## johng (Feb 14, 2009)

I have no idea about a top bar hive. But, I have 20 cedar lang. boxes that came with some used equipment I bought and they keep bees just fine. The Cedar is holding up a lot better than some of the pine boxes I have.


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## solsikkefarms (Jun 1, 2013)

I built me top bar hive from cedar... think it was recommended from some place or another.. works well. I made mine 5' long.


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## Jhn56 (Oct 11, 2011)

Hope everyone had a good Christmas! Thanks for all the replies, very much appreciated! 

I've decided to build the first 2 hives, using my 5/4 cedar, and plan to make them each approx. 4' long. I have no idea what to expect from pests around here, so I also plan to do something along the lines of what "bee growing" had her hubby build with a screened bottom w/solid bottom.

(Think) I settled on a location? It has a NW windbreak of evergreens with early sun that will pretty much last until late afternoon/early eve. My only concern is the neighbor will be running his zero turn mower on the opposite side of those evergreens (which is approx. 25-30' from the hive area). He makes quite a racket when mowing the grass! Think the bees will tolerate him?

Just ordered a copy of this book tonight http://www.amazon.com/Top-Bar-Beeke...d=1419899256&sr=1-8&keywords=beekeeping+books , 89 reviews with a 4.9 star rating sold me


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## beegrowing (Apr 1, 2014)

Jhn56 said:


> Hope everyone had a good Christmas! Thanks for all the replies, very much appreciated!
> 
> I've decided to build the first 2 hives, using my 5/4 cedar, and plan to make them each approx. 4' long. I have no idea what to expect from pests around here, so I also plan to do something along the lines of what "bee growing" had her hubby build with a screened bottom w/solid bottom.
> 
> ...


In the last 4 years I've ended up with about every top bar book out there and the one you got is a favorite,along with The Thinking Beekeeper by Christy Hemenway(she has a couple of video tips with info that I never found elsewhere too like How to Really hang a queen cage to cause NO cross comb.I've never had a problem doing it Her way 5 times and SO many people get a mess to clean out! I also enjoy Bee Culture magazine which is also nice to get as a general supplement as is American Beekeeper (but it's got more technical info) and although they are Lang oriented they keep one informed about the bee keep World in general for educational updates and every ad for supplies available is in those....so getting one for one year at least gives you a resource. 

Your neighbor's noise is a slight risk as some non-africanized bees are still "hot" or get "hot" if agitated but I doubt that would be a problem....it happens but odds are in your favor it won't.
I can walk around my hives at 3-5 feet with no protection any time except after an inspection when I give mine a week to stop feeling defensive.One time a single guard was "after" me and no one else(I re-scented myself and was clothed Totally different!) for 3 weeks. After she died I was right back beside them looking in the window again all the time. It actually was funny I had so many stand offs with One bee. My husband said he saw a "wanted" poster the size of a postage stamp out there!hahahah.
If your bees ever attack you for "no" reason,don't instantly assume you have a bad queen. It's possible BUT Things happen in the night that leave no visible trace but a snoopy predator can upset a hive. Always see how they act before getting close with no suit,and if they are Really acting up,and bumping you,give them a week before jumping for a new queen. It IS their nature to protect themselves....even the most docile hives.
Best Wishes! You are in for Such a fun,educational, and rewarding time!


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## Jhn56 (Oct 11, 2011)

Wanted Poster! &#128513; that's funny stuff!

Thanks BG, not knowing, I was under the impression, when using a top bar hive, it's best to direct release the queen. That was my intention, despite possible absconding, but I'll definitely do some searching around to see about how to "really" hang a queen cage when the time comes

Before I start building my hives, I have a question I hope I can get your opinion on. Since your husband built your GM hive with a screened bottom, did you OR would you recommend to modify or alter the opening for the bee entrance? The plans call for a 1/2" wide front entrance at the solid bottom board, but since I plan to screen mine as well, Im tinkerin with the possibility of changing the entrance by drilling a few holes (up a few inches) or even possibly moving the entrance to the top of the front?


TIA


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## M88A1 (May 21, 2012)

I made my TBH 4 feet long they seem the right size, not to big-not to small. All my TBH have wood bottoms. When I hang a queen, I just leave her in the cage with candy in the opening then staple the strap between 2 bars and wait a week, then remove the cage.


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## beegrowing (Apr 1, 2014)

M88A1 said:


> I made my TBH 4 feet long they seem the right size, not to big-not to small. All my TBH have wood bottoms. When I hang a queen, I just leave her in the cage with candy in the opening then staple the strap between 2 bars and wait a week, then remove the cage.


I replace the candy with marshmallow for quicker release,and remove it the third day. With the queen cage tied at both ends with thin wire like the stuff wrapped around grocery lettuce) and under the V of the bar horizontally and centered,any comb on it is "in line" with the bar from the start,and it's so fresh it's simple to gently tear out with little to no damage to the rest of the comb....often what comb is there is mostly beside the cage not hanging under it anyway.

Jhn56 - My first screened bottom on the GM was inset like a window so the GM specs for front door and bottom board were in place...the screen at bee floor level and the swing down door(that I put mite count paper on) inset into the cut-out that the bottom door fits into. It's not a full mite board but I go by "many or few",I don't Really "count" as a lot of mites Stay on the bees anyway. I can simply judge drop to see if I think they are in trouble or don't have a big load.
Deciding to have a front slot door or holes is up to you. I have both now(3 TBs) and the slot door is really simple to feed the bees through with a standard quart jar feeder.I feed at one side and block the middle and leave a small entry at the opposite end when I feed. I don't get a robbing problem that way. The holes on the other hives are wine cork size and so simple to open or close and keep mice out because they are on an upside down slant for mice. Having a feeder with hole-entry hives is not easy Unless there is still room inside the hive to put one behind a follower board that has a hole in it for access(like when first installing before a flow is on). Can't just stick a jar inside because the bees with make a comb mess on it....they need feed access only. Some folks with hole-hives hang syrup in a baggy or rig a custom feeder on the top with a hole in a top bar. That doesn't work on a GM unless you customize your lid too! ....
It's all about choices! You really can design whatever you want to work with!

My second hive has a full screen bottom with a sliding mite count board that comes out one end(it's long and unwieldy though). It was a kit I bought. My third hive has a solid bottom and no screen. So I'm experimenting! The most important part of learning what you like best is just to have all your hives bars the same,but you've already figured that one out! he/he

I've only finished my second year and really can't say what the bees will thrive the most with....for Me personally I like my first hive the best though for ease of use in any situation!(just wish it was longer like yours will be!!!) The one thing I wish I'd had DH do with the GM was split that heavy lid in half though. Just taking half of it off to collect honey in the back,or inspect only the front, would have made one more job a little easier for my age and the "lifting" thing.

Best wishes! and Happy New Year!!!


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## Jhn56 (Oct 11, 2011)

Thanks for all the help so far! Everyone's input has been very useful! Feeling quite confident about my planned changes to the GM hive now, before I start building. The book is due in from Amazon tomorrow and my schedule is lookin lighter...yep! 


Gonna be a few weeks, but DON'T go no where folks!!!


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## Jhn56 (Oct 11, 2011)

Starting to feel the pressure with spring (garden time) just a couple months away! Gotta get these hives DONE....and sooner rather than later!! 

Not much accomplished, but it's a start. My old 5/4 cedar had some cupping to it, so I decided I had better rip all the material down the middles. One step forward 2 steps back! LOL

With the 6" & 8" wide stock ripped, ran through the jointer and biscuit joined together @ 4" centers, my finished working stock measures right around 12-1/2" wide after clamping it up...which is plenty. With enough stock to join up a dozen 4' sections, this is gonna take awhile since I only have 12 clamps I knocked out 3 tonight after I finished work. 

Turns out my plans from BYH are pretty much useless as I've changed the height to accommodate a screened bottom, room for a slide out tray and a solid bottom. The thickness difference (5/4 vs 3/4) changes the width, and of course I nearly doubled the length. As I have things figured now, hive will be approx. 45-1/2"(inside #). Yep, I'm winging the prototype!

With a tuff schedule ahead, the scent of cedar is a good motivator!


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## Jhn56 (Oct 11, 2011)

A little more progress, got 2 more sections glued and clamped today (makes a total of 5 so far). After a better look @ the cedar stock on hand, I figure I can build 4 of these without needing to purchase any more lumber...so that's the new plan!

To save time in the long run and ensure all 4 hives will be built the exact same way for interchangeability, I whipped up this jig with plywood and other stuff I had laying around. It's like having an extra set of hands and should make assembly much easier.


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## Jhn56 (Oct 11, 2011)

A little better look at the jig, loaded with 2 sides. I set it up so the hive would be 45-1/2" inside (47-3/4" overall, w/o roof). The 45-1/2" leaves my options open for plywood I have on hand, that I can use for the roof or top cover if I choose.


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## CheyenneEagle (Apr 8, 2015)

(Original message Even with the wider 17" top bars on the Golden Mean Hive, at just 26" long (inside#) I thought that seemed small. With mostly 12' stock, I could make them both either 3' or 4' long each with minimal waste. Sounds like 4' would be best, but do you think stretching the length to 3' would be sufficient? That would make it roughly 30% bigger. Thanks for both the hive and cost inputs) 
How tall is the hive? Have you calculated the total space for the inside of the hive? I'm new at this beekeeping so I'm just trying to figure everything out and wanted to know about the total amount of space.


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