# I haven't been this mad or frustrated for a long time



## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Went to see a lawyer today about buying a property. 
I went in with a list of the property deeds from the mid 1800's - present. I had copies of the last 4 deeds.
Right away the lawyer starts at the bottom (the 1800's) and starts saying "Who did this search? There are holes in this search. It sold to a guy but a lady ended up selling it later. Where is the deed from when the guy sold it to the lady?"
I replied that it was probably the guy's wife (they had the same last name.). He kept saying "I would have to see this deed to make sure it was deeded correctly and if they had kids, the kids might have been entitled to the property."
Really, you think we need to go back and search records from the 1800's to see if they had kids?
I said "I think the top 4 deeds are what we need to dwell on." 

This property was my wife's Grandparent's property. The lawyer is still saying "We should still probably research those old deeds. Maybe your wife's Grandparents didn't actually own the property." 
By this time I'm thinking "This is a total waste of time. He's wasting my time and I'm wasting his."

Getting to the recent deeds, this lawyer's office were the ones's who did the estate for one share of this property. He called the secretary's who claimed "No, we didn't this guy's estate."

My wife and I decided enough was enough, and said "Well, we have to get more paperwork together then. We aren't ready to do this."

He continued going on and on saying how you have to make sure everyone on the deeds had the right to sell the property in the past.

I understand you want a correct deed. I was looking to buy 2/3 interest in this property. My wife's Mother and my wife's Uncle owned 1/3 each with another Uncle (now deceased) owning the other 1/3. The cousin sold that 1/3 to somebody else last year.

This lawyer treated me like I was an idiot and didn't understand what I am doing or getting in to.
Trust me, I KNOW what I'm doing and what my wife and I are getting into.

I don't think we will be going back to him.

(My wife got off the phone with her cousin who is selling us the 1/3. He had his Dad's estate done at that lawyer's office regardless of what they say.)


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Michael W. Smith said:


> By this time I'm thinking "This is a total *waste of time*. He's wasting my time and I'm wasting his."


He's the one who gets paid by the hour.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

When I had a lawyer on retainer for my real estate investments about 15 years ago, I could ask him anything and know I was getting the truth with no fat or gristle. He was the exception.
I have discovered that using an attorney you have little or no relationship with can be maddening, and there is good reason why they have such a lowly reputation. Yeah, sounds like you'll have to open the phone book up again.


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

In my county there are people who do title searches as independent contractors for various lawyers. If I wanted an attorney, I'd ask a couple of them which lawyers are good in real estate matters.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Just call a title company.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> He's the one who gets paid by the hour.


Not when it's a free consultation!

Silly me. I thought we would just tell him from whom names the property was coming from - show the proper death certificates, and have the proper authorized people come and sign.

I have two other lawyers in mind. I'll have to pick one of them, have the free consultation, and see if they are able to do a deed.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Are you not going to get title insurance? I have skipped that when I knew the people and the history of the property. 

You could use a title company for the paperwork, even if you don’t get the title insurance. Much less expensive than an attorney.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Title insurance is the way to go, there are no guarantee's with a lawyer, with title insurance there is.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

It's called churning. That's what he was doing. I told a lawyer that when he billed me for something that took hours for his paralegal to do when all he needed to do was phone me. I used that word (it's like magic) and he backed down and took the charge off my bill. 

Yes, use a title company to do a title search and get title insurance. I ended up $10,000 dollars richer because a title company did not do due diligence over access to some raw land I had bought.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Well, it's been over a month, so figured I would give an update.

I decided to go with the lawyer who did my Mother-In-Laws estate. 1/3 interest in this property is hers anyway, so he already knows the details. 

After talking with this lawyer, they did some checking on their own - and found out that my wife's cousin, never did a final estate of his Dad's. This 1/3 interest in this property was the only thing left in his name. When I kept asking him if he had done his Dad's estate, he kept telling me "Yes." but was thinking of when he sold a property that had been his Dad's.

So, the cousin has to send my lawyer the original will and death certificate. Once the lawyer has them and files them at the court house, the property can then be sold.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Thanks for the update. So many times threads are left with a question as to the results. 
Glad it'll be settled in your favor.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

I dislike any lawyers on principal, but they are just people and some are pretty decent.

I had a full title search done by a title company, they did a great job and there should be no gaps in the title all the way back to when the united states gives the land to whatever state.

Mine showed every owner, what they paid in most cases, every loan taken on it, any gas and oil leases....etc etc, even things you don't want to know in court section, such as my property had one person removed from it from being legally declared insane...…..I quit reading it after than because those are things you would rather not know about isolated property you plan to live on.

That did prompt me to have the well tested really really good though......


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## jr23 (Sep 3, 2013)

first and foremost never buy real estate without title insurance. they do the search and insure against your possible loss.i have collected on my last home developer failed to pay a tax.
and IMO try to buy the 1/3 from your cousin if its a 1/3 of the entire parcel. if your splitting it into 2 or more parcels its no problem but owing with another party can be troublesome and needs to be titled properly and carefully . lawyers can do searches but rarely if ever guarantee you will not have a loss. and leans taxes etc are covered by insurance plus problems with surveys . where i live its a city with individual building lots and occasional a builder will build a home on the wrong lot no one catches it zoning, city inspectors etc if the person bought without title ins they could lose the home


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Michael W. Smith said:


> Well, it's been over a month, so figured I would give an update.
> 
> I decided to go with the lawyer who did my Mother-In-Laws estate. 1/3 interest in this property is hers anyway, so he already knows the details.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a cloud in the chain of ownership popped up. It's always good to correct those errors "BEFORE" doing the deal. I have one lawyer to do the title work on any property I purchase. He does his own work, not one of the clerks. Very thorough and diligent. If I am selling? No big deal, I know the property is clear, anyone can handle it at that point.


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## FreeRange (Oct 9, 2005)

jr23 said:


> first and foremost never buy real estate without title insurance. they do the search and insure against your possible loss.i have collected on my last home developer failed to pay a tax.
> and IMO try to buy the 1/3 from your cousin if its a 1/3 of the entire parcel. if your splitting it into 2 or more parcels its no problem but owing with another party can be troublesome and needs to be titled properly and carefully . lawyers can do searches but rarely if ever guarantee you will not have a loss. and leans taxes etc are covered by insurance plus problems with surveys . where i live its a city with individual building lots and occasional a builder will build a home on the wrong lot no one catches it zoning, city inspectors etc if the person bought without title ins they could lose the home


x2

Joint ownership of family land by my cousins ended up splitting the family who had different plans for the land. One set of cousins had to take another set to court to get the land legally divided. It was a mess.


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

I guess I am used to the need to have an independent abstractor do a formal title search. The title company will have it's staff do the rough search but it is generally (in my state - Kansas) good practice to have a formal abstract of deed done. We don't even think about it much. Come to think of it I don't remember having to worry about it when I have bought homes in cities, but I know whenever we have bought or sold farm land we needed the formal abstract. It can be an expensive lesson to try to sell something later and discover a cloud on the deed from back when TwoDogs owned the pasture.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Michael W. Smith said:


> Well, it's been over a month, so figured I would give an update.
> 
> I decided to go with the lawyer who did my Mother-In-Laws estate. 1/3 interest in this property is hers anyway, so he already knows the details.
> 
> ...


An update on the update. 

Once my wife's cousin sent the lawyer the will, death certificate, etc. the lawyer simply filed it in the courthouse. Once that was done, the wife's cousin was able to sell his 1/3 interest in the property to us. 

Shortly thereafter, my wife's brother signed off my Mother-In-Law's 1/3 interest in the property that was the last thing to finish up her estate. So, we are now the owners of 2/3 interest in a 12 acre tract of land.

The good news is, the lawyer didn't charge me anything to do these two deeds. As I said before, he was handling my Mother-In-Laws estate and this was the last thing to be done to close it out.

At some point, I plan on contacting the owner of the other 1/3 interest to see if we can buy it so we have full title to the whole thing.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Progress!!!!!!!


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

And, I just received the deeds in the mail today! When I posted the above, I hadn't even looked at the mail yet.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

Wonderful update!


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

Good work! Don't forget to file them in your municipality, if the attorney hasn't already.


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## jr23 (Sep 3, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Are you not going to get title insurance? I have skipped that when I knew the people and the history of the property.
> 
> You could use a title company for the paperwork, even if you don’t get the title insurance. Much less expensive than an attorney.


always get title insurance


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