# [[[WARNING]]]...Bulls are dangerous!!!



## MTplainsman (Oct 12, 2007)

I see a lot of type on here about keeping a bull around the place when not totally necassary, keeping them as pets, and thinking sweet old intact George would never dream of turning on it's owner. Well, love me or hate me, but I just had to yell out to you all who's in dream land... *BAD, BAD, BAD* Idea! 

Just imagine if you will, your sweet, loving wife who makes sure you got a hot meal for you when your in from a long day, rubs your sore shoulders, and breaks a sweat trying to get a stain out of your favorite shirt...yep, she's a good one alright, wouldn't even say a cross word at another either, then one day within a month *BANG!* Where'd that come from, who is she? Wonder if my head is still attatched? Your 'Lil candy cane turned into a sow grizzly over night and your sitting on her cub. At least with the nature of a woman, you know that sometime sooner or later her hormonal imbalance will rear up, but when your talking critters with thier goods still in place, it could come on at any minute of the day like a lightning strike. Thing is, with lightning, you at least know the weather is unstable, but with a bull you almost never see it coming. The bugger could be raised from a bottle and be the family friend for three straight years, and then one day after school your little daughter jumps off the bus to go and scratch 'Ol George's fuzzy jaw and offer him a handful of green grass just like every other day. Little does she realize, from George being in tact, caused by some odd effect from his hanging seed pods, George is about to get an extra shot of brain altering hormones much more than the usual amount. Now imagine going out to corral to tell your your little girl that suppers ready, and see her laying between the bull and the fence. Sounds bad to tell it like it is, but please keep this in mind. I bet I'm not the only one on here that is more than a little freaked out when we see so many folks let there gaurd down when we are talking bulls. They are beautiful to keep around and look at. They are fun to watch as they mature. It is amazing to watch them tend thier herd as nature intended to, but they are a loaded gun with not one doubt. If you do not trust those of us who've been around bulls our entire lives, may you never learn the hard way. Your life or your family's lives are not replaceable...


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## darbyfamily (Mar 16, 2005)

YIKES... a little passionate about this?


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

About 2 years ago, my neighbor's wife (who herself was raised farming and was as tough a woman as you could meet) was killed in an accident when she was trying to separate two bulls that were fighting. She lived long enough to be life-flighted from our local tiny hospital to a major trauma center, but died within a couple hours from massive internal injuries. She and her husband had been ranching cattle for years and years. It can happen to anyone, and the bulls (or cows for that matter) can be on you so quick. It's tempting to get so comfortable around your own "pet" cows and even a bull that you let your guard down and forget how amazingly strong and dangerous they are. In my mind, cattle can be far more dangerous than horses. Most horses will not run you right over, and most cattle will if they get a notion to.


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## sungirl (Jan 23, 2008)

100% true, we had beef cattle before goats and those bulls never got out of our eyes. My husband & I we had a rule that we both were to be there when moving any bull.


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## cowkeeper (Feb 17, 2007)

I'm trying to get my head around "someone who was farm raised" and who was "trying to separate two bulls who were fighting"  Heck you cant even separate two DOGS who are fighting without risking major wounds.


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## mtman (Sep 2, 2004)

we keep a bull do i trust him pretty much do i take my eyes off him never and would i break up a fight between 2 bulls not even if you had a gun to my head


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## darbyfamily (Mar 16, 2005)

for the record, I was NOT questioning the truth of the post... just sorta speechless at the passion with which the post was written 

Dh feels as adamant against owning a bull as ya'll are saying... so I guess we'll take our girls elsewhere or do the AI thing.


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

having a bull around is like having a serial killer around, never take you eyes off them and alway have a plan to get out his way. I've never worked with Dexters, but have handled many holsteins, gurnseys, jerseys, brown swiss, I led them around by the ring and they followed me because they wanted to, I've seen a few holsteins with the ring torn out and the nose just flapping.. Herefords and angus weren't to bad although i did get worked over a little by an angus, my brother said, "lucky he didn't have horns", believe me they don't need horns to hurt you, even their head in hard when it's trying to gore you into the ground.. just lucky i could get under the truck.


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

I've always had beef cattle and am of the opinion that diary bulls are much more tempermental and dangerous. Perhaps because they are usually kept in closer contact with the owner. Beef bulls are out in open country more. However, I would never turn my back on a angus or hereford or other beef bull either. Lots of bad accidents have happened around bulls of every breed.


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## AR Transplant (Mar 20, 2004)

This thread is confirmation for us. Our little billybob is going to the freezer as soon as our girls are serviced. That will not be too soon for me.

Thanks for the reminder, we all need it and maybe we all need to be reminded of it once in a while.

Were you a bit passionate? Not in my book. People need to get this one really good.

ar


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

I'm glad you started this thread. Folks who haven't been around them need to be made aware of the potential dangers of an intact bull. Those of us who have spent time with them and do know the dangers also need a reminder from time to time not to become complacent. The power of these animals (not just bulls but other large animals as well) is hard to imagine for those who haven't experienced it. They can hurt you when they're just playing. When they're scared or angry, it's even worse. I was beat up more (severely a couple of times) by 1 bull than by all the steers and cows I've been around combined. Thanks for the reminder.


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## joseywales76 (Mar 26, 2008)

never had a problem with the bulls, just dont corner them, and keep an eye on them,


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## translplant (Sep 27, 2005)

Dude. Chill. Do you think we're all idiots? No one here ever said they were going to send their little girl in with a bull by hersel'f and writing about the positives about having a bull on the farm does not exactly qualify as "letting our guards down" and throwing ourselves under the feet of a charging animal.


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## darbyfamily (Mar 16, 2005)

translplant said:


> Dude. Chill. Do you think we're all idiots?


(snort) that was my initial thought! So you do think it was a bit passionate, no?

ROFL


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

The thing that you need to understand is you do not get even one free pass. You can go from startled to dead with one flick of the head even if it is not intended for you. Would you look down the barrel of a gun and pull the triger because the safety always works even when it is loaded?


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## Sabrina67 (Mar 24, 2008)

I agree they can be dangerous. There was an older man I knew killed by a bull he had owned for years. The bull was "playing" and pushed him against the barn and crushed him. Then last summer a man was standing beside the pen and a ...horned bovine...I can't say if it was a bull or not, gored him through the fence. He died also. 
Maybe the point is that NO animal is really safe if you aren't very careful, and even then not to trust any animal too much. Especially one that outweighs you.
We raised a whitetail deer once and when he matured he was a doosey. Anyone female was a mate for him and he didn't take to rejection. We had to take him to a reserve like place for our safety...... and his pleasure..lol


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

Doesn't matter if it's cow, pig, sheep, goose or whatever - if you're out working your critters, BE AWARE! If your kids or grandkids are out helping with the critters, BE AWARE! Things can change in a moment and things can go from bad to worse in a heartbeat.

We are not idiots, but a reminder is always good too! Sometimes a little complacency creeps in -


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## copperhead46 (Jan 25, 2008)

I bet every one on this forum has a dog, check the statistics on death from dog bites. The point is, if it has teeth, it will bite......if it has hooves, it will kick..........if it has horns, it will gore you. All animals are able to hurt a human, the most deadly animal on the farm is a ram sheep, and I've always known that a stud horse has one goal in life, and that is to commit suicide and take his handler with him. People have always had bulls on the farm, most of us don't have the money, or time to mess with AI ing a bunch of cows. A bull is not a pet or a playmate for anyone, neither is any other breeding animal. But, having said that, a little common sence goes a long way in animal safety, i.e. you don't let a child in a pen with an animal bigger that a baby chick, but that doesn't mean that it is dangerous to have a bull with a herd of cows. 
P.J.


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## MTplainsman (Oct 12, 2007)

A little passionate about this subject? If by passionate meaning to express extreme concern from the heart, then YES I'm a lot passionate about this subject.

No one on HT is an idiot, but that doesn't mean some are unaware, take too many chances, or get way too comfortable around bulls. I didn't figure to be Mr. Popular when posting this thread, as of course I expected a chewing or two to follow, but thats ok, cause all I wanted to do is say to those possibly getting a little carried away, to stop, think again, and maybe save some grief.

I've been forgetful and unaware with bulls too! We've had bulls that you had to literally push out of the way and you could even play with thier horns a little (bad idea btw) they were so docile. Honestly with these types of bulls our gaurds were slowly being let down to the point were disaster nearly struck on some occasions. Spring time is escpecially hazardous when you got bulls around. They have the Spring itch, adrenaline is pumping harder, their real scratchy, rowdy and full of mood swings!

Oh ya, I know of a couple deaths by gentle bulls in this country too, and I got some hair raising experiences of my own... just a couple weeks ago I might add, but personal strories as well as any others arn't necassary to get the warning across. I do realize that being a homestead based site, many folks are just jumping into the raising of various farm critters that they've never yet been around, or at least since their younger years.

Sooo... this post is for the folks building thier ideas and plans with intact bulls in them! By all means, keep a bull or two or three around the place. Use them and enjoy them with both eyes on them at all times. I do wanna say though *{IMHO}* if anyone has ideas of making a work horse, training, or any type of close handling with a bull aside from letting him breed the girls, please strongly concider getting the guy fixed.

Also, I'm chilled out real nice, concerned most definately, but chilled like a snow drift. It would be disheartening though, to read a post on HT asking for immediate prayers for a family member on here, whose bull project went a little out of kilter. Am I right? Anyone not still agree that it's a topic needed to discuss?

One last thing... Sorry ladies for using your nature given alterations for an example in this thread, LOL! I had to use something to keep this post a little on the light side you know, just had the female fear fest on the brain I guess :stars:


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Nothing with testicles is to be trusted......with the exclusion of gentlemen.
We have always kept bulls for breeding. They are never trusted, never petted and they are eaten by the time they hit 2-4 years old.
A *safe* bull/buck/stallion/ram does not exist and never will.
That said, the female of the species can be just as dangerous, its just not as likely. A bull is just hormones wrapped in a heck of a lot of muscle.


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## bumpus (Jul 30, 2003)

.
*True story:*

A man had a pet show bull he raised from a bottle. Won many ribbons.
They found him one day in the barn rolled up like a pile of road kill hamburger, 
by FAMILY MEMBERS ! ! !

BULL COVERED WITH BLOOD ! ! !

ANY BULL CAN TURN ON YOU OR YOUR CHILDREN ! ! !


I have seen heifers and cows just as mean as a bull.

bumpus
.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

I worked at a dairy that had to keep the bull in a old cement herd shower. He was mean mean mean. I also worked at a dairy that had teaser bulls in the herds. you needed to watch them every second of every minute when you brought up the herds to be milked. That is why I went with mini cattle. My bull is about 35 inches (about 250 lbs). Still 100% bull but smaller, easier to control and maintain safely.


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## momanto (Jan 14, 2005)

If Any One Doubts The Wisdom Of Extreme Caution W/bulls, Just Go To The Cattletoday Forum And Pose The Question....or Do A Search There.

Bulls Raised With Human Females Will Turn On Them When The Bull Is Grown. 

They Will Knock The Feed Bag Or Feed Bucket Out Of Anyone's Hand.

Once When I Drove My Kia Rio Into A Pasture To Feed The Cows, I Got Out W/the Bucket And There Was Dear Little Tommy. He Immediately Attempted To Butt It Out Of My Hand. I Hit Him W/it And Ran Around To The Passenger Side Of The Car And Got In...by Then He Had Rammed The Driver's Side Of The Car. My Objective That Day Was To Leave Special Feed For A Cow That Had Just Calved. Lucky She Wasnt With Them, And I Could Drive Out Of Sight Of Tommy To Leave The Feed Near Her.

Ever See The Tv Show Lost? Well, We Were Trying To Locate A New Calf In Our Jungle On Foot. Should Have Fed The Small Herd First. Well, They Followed Us Thru The Woods The 2 Y.o. Black Angus Buddy The Bull Hollering And Snorting The Whole Way. I Was Able To Escape Because He Is Pretty Big And I Was Able Slip Thru The Skinny Trees To Get Back To The Truck. When Dgs Got Back, We Have A Chocolate Sheet Cake Someone Had Given Us As We Were Leaving The House. He Thru It Out In Chunks To The Cows To Distract Them.
We Finally Pulled Up A Few Yards And Dgs Jumped In The Back Of The Truck And Threw The Herd The Pellets W/had Brought For The New Mammy Cow.

I Was Already Careful Around The Bulls, But That Incident Doubled My Precautions. I Try To Spot The Herd Before They See Me And Spread Out There Pellets Before They Get To Where I Am. Then Spray Them Threw The Truck Or Car Window. 

Sometimes It Is Easier To Drive The Car To Tend To The Cows, But I Would Never Buy One Of Those Small Open 4 Wheeler Deals To Do To Tend To Cattle.....old Tommy Could Have Easily Turned One Over.

Mom


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

Even though my guy is tiny compared to larger cattle, I NEVER go in the pasture without him being contained in the smaller holding pen or tried by halter and cables. same with the cow. she seems gentle but is fully horned and with a calf So I won't take the chance, though with her it is halter and cotton lead.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

The sad thing is that we hear about people getting killed yearly by bulls and people still believe that it is an uncommon occurance and it really isn't. If a person has an encounter with a cow, she is typically smaller and I find their behaviour easier to predict but people fail to realize the incredible power that a bull has. I have dealt with range bulls, show bulls and everything in between because we were one of very few people willing to board bulls over the winter. I would advise anyone that can access AI to seriously consider it. Smaller breeders have the opportunity to use outstanding genetics that they might not be able to utilize by purchasing a bull. If a bull is mediocre enough that a person feels they can buy him, use him for one season and either eat him or sell him, he's likely not outstanding in any way and if he's not exceptional, one can safely expect unremarkable calves.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

cowkeeper said:


> I'm trying to get my head around "someone who was farm raised" and who was "trying to separate two bulls who were fighting"  Heck you cant even separate two DOGS who are fighting without risking major wounds.


I know. A neighbor who helped them with their operation told me that he always told her to stay away from "them bulls". I think she was just so used to being able to get any job done, that she lost perspective and just jumped into "do" mode. The whole thing was just horribly tragic.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

I agree that bulls can be dangerous; but for those of us with beef herds a bull and even two are a necessity. I never turn my back on our bulls even though they both seem calm. I try never even to get in close quarters with them, for instance when they are in the feed lot.
As for the poor lady who was killed trying to separate fighting bulls; we all do careless and very foolish things and sometimes get away with it. Just one time, though is all it takes as demonstrated by the story. I would not even go near two bulls that were fighting, let alone try to separate them.


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

I have had bulls come at me when I was trying to sort cows. 

I dont go where a bull is with out a 2 foot piece of pipe in my hand, and I dont take my eyes off them for more than a second. If at all possible I pen the bull up away from the cows if I need ot work with them.


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## harplade (Jul 14, 2005)

my neighbor has a couple of Santa Gertrudis bulls. I don't even like to be on the other side of the fence from them! I keep looking at the barbed wire, thinking-that wouldn't hold that 2000+ pounds of mean bull if he wanted to get to me!!! Thankfully, I don't much look like a heifer and he stays on his side of the fence but I'm with the OP, I'm very cautious around any farm animals-even my own.


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

I think it's a great post MTp. Too many people are unknowing, and overconfident in what they thought they knew., and by then it's too late.


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

MT - good thread and I would rather see you err on the side of expressing caution. Too passionate about protecting people's lives? No such thing.

Recently, I had a Dexter breeder try to talk me into buying a bull from her to breed instead of using AI. I have one Jersey cow and do not consider it worth keeping a bull on my property. During the exchange, the breeder encouraged me to get the Dexter bull, use him this season, than butcher. I expressed concern about having him in the field since my kids walk through to care for the other animals. They said "I would not keep a bull on my property that I didn't trust with children."

All that to say - there are people out there that "trust" a bull and encourage others to do so. Reitterating the need to be cautious is wise.


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## Widow Jams (Aug 8, 2004)

I am a Dexter breeder and this breed has marketed "docile, tame" bulls forever. You will often see photos of owners with small children sitting on the backs of Dexter bulls. 20 years ago a bull was imported whose sire was known to need a personality adjustment, and this imported bull was also problematic, as have been lots of his offspring. One breeder who used this bull AI on his entire herd over a long number of years said he "got rid" of every animal he owned from this line and was sorry he ever started breeding with him because of his ( and people he sold bulls to) experience with bulls from this line.

Because this bull threw an "in demand" color that brought a premium price for breeders, the known temperament problems were ignored and never brought to the attention of the general membership or discussed as to possible dangers . . . . . and with the breed, the breeders, the owners constantly promoting docile bulls in this breed, there undoubtedly will come a time when someone gets killed. Some of the young bulls exhibit problematic personalities from a young age. . . others who have treed or attacked people have reportedly "flipped out" when the breeder believed them to be "docile". It is amazing to me that any breeder would keep a bull in this breed who was known to come from a problem and be a problem but that HAS happened, with the excuse that the problems were all because of "bad handling" when the bull was young.

Try to warn breeders that this problem exists and they should be aware and be careful and they are more angry with the message and the messenger than those who allowed this situation to spread throughout a breed whose bulls are advertised and marketed as "docile and tame". 

I know also of one breeder who was seriously hurt and hospitalized by a Dexter bull who did NOT have this known problematic bull in his background. He had his back to the animals in the pasture while working on a shelter he was repairing and the bull attacked.

I hope your timely post keeps ME from getting hurt for as long as I manage to keep it frontline in my consciousness because I admit to forgetting at times to be vigilant in my own herd and just this weekend I was trying to seperate a cow in standing heat that I wanted to AI, from a bull I did not want to breed her. In retrospect I was guilty of being downright careless
because my small bull is "docile".

JamsHundred.com


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## cowkeeper (Feb 17, 2007)

I think it would be irresponsible to market any breed of bull as docile and tame. Yes, some breeds in general are much more suitable for small holdings, but any animal, bull or cow, that exhibits temperament problems should be culled.
It does no service (IMO) to stress any particular bloodline especially one introduced 20 years ago. Each calf crop should be assessed for the traits you are seeing now.
I would never turn my back on any bull, and certainly it would be very unwise to try to remove a cow in standing heat from the bull. Having said that, the most dangerous animals I have had on the place have been rams. Perhaps it is easier to be on the lookout with rams, because they are more consistent in their quest to injure you.


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

I'm sure that tendencies can be seen at a young age. My 5 week old bull calf already paws the ground and charges my car. He will certainly not remain a bull.


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## momlaffsalot (Sep 9, 2004)

cjb said:


> MT - good thread and I would rather see you err on the side of expressing caution. Too passionate about protecting people's lives? No such thing....
> 
> Reitterating the need to be cautious is wise.


I have found this thread thoroughly enlightening....I 'knew' bulls could be dangerous, but it was in an abstract way, having never been around them. This made me 'see' the danger in a more tangible way. 
I say thanks for the thread, and no, I won't be getting any bulls in the future (or rams! :hobbyhors...who knew?)


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

wr said:


> * I would advise anyone that can access AI to seriously consider it. Smaller breeders have the opportunity to use outstanding genetics that they might not be able to utilize by purchasing a bull. * If a bull is mediocre enough that a person feels they can buy him, use him for one season and either eat him or sell him, he's likely not outstanding in any way and if he's not exceptional, one can safely expect unremarkable calves.


We have had several bulls here at Wolf Cairn Moor, but our new "two-legged bull" is the best and safest we've had to date. He does carry a .357 under his jacket, and a .38 on his ankle, but other than that he's harmless; he throws the best blooded calves one could ask for, doesn't eat us out of house and home, and I feel much safer in the barn or paddock among the cows.


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## Horns Bach (Mar 11, 2008)

When I was a kid my father got backed up against a fence post by a big Charlois bull, the bull chose not to take him out (for whatever reason) so luckily I grew up _with_ a father. He sold the bull after that.
When we were kids bulls scared us to death, we'd been to enough rodeos to know what they are capable of when they get a man down. Always good to be reminded of their unpredictability, and how you should never have your back turned, and cows can be just as unpredictable.


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## IMContrary (Sep 22, 2004)

A former friend of mine once spent several months in the hospital after getting on the wrong side of a holstein bull at the dairy where he was working on at the time. I think there were several broken ribs, a broken arm, punctured lung and maybe a ruptured spleen? Anyway, he was lucky to be alive.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

I went out on the BLM at dawn one day and found two range bulls fighting. I hunted all day and came out of the mountains after sunset. I found them two miles away by the gate, still battling. I had to wait 30 minutes until they moved far enough so I could open the gate and get away. As far as I know, they are still fighting. 

I know a man who had his back broken by his Holstein bull. He lived, the bull didn't.


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## Eunice (Feb 9, 2005)

Local FFA chapter always sells t-shirts at the SW Utah Jr. Livestock show. A few years back the say on it was: "no bulls, no bucks, no boars, no balls, no problems". That also says a lot for the people working with the youth to keep problems out of the show.
I have worked with livestock for over forty years. I own two Alpine bucks and work on a 100 cow dairy. My boss has decided to have NO bulls on the place. In the past we had a young bull for a heifer breeder. We are so much safer with no bull to watch. I appreciate this thread as the tune-up was needed by me too.


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## MTplainsman (Oct 12, 2007)

Good discussion here. Just wanted to clarify quickly, that I certianly don't think everyone should haul thier bulls to the ring, put them in the freezer, or turn them into steers all on account that they are dangerous. I just wanted to get the point across that you can *NEVER* ever trust a bull. Of course many of us need to keep bulls for our operation big or small. It's just fine to raise a bull just because you feel like it too. However, I just wanted to bring awareness to those that take a bull for granted. If you always use your head and make well sure that great caution is given with a having a bull or bulls around your place, than thats just fine I would think, but when I saw some threads about working closely with bulls like they are trusting pets, and trying to train them for whatever purposes, it rocked me a little is all. If you never allow yourself to get into a pinch with a bull, than you don't have to fret and haul them away, just realize what your dealing with, though it may seem like a harmless teddy bear at the time. 

Another quick word... If a guy throws pen to paper and does a little figuring, I honestly believe you will come out further ahead in the breeding game by route of A.I. Not everyone is up on this system, nor are many setup for it either. You got pick of the world's gene pool and no bull to feed and mess with, which does wonders for your bottom line, as well as cuts out any chances with physical risks. I just might indulge in this A.I. game soon too, as it really does make sense for so many of us. I've kept up to 7 bulls at one time, and I must say the expense and fooling around is heavy! I don't know what they charge for custom A.I. work these days, but I can about bet you it'd still be several pegs lower in cost then keeping live animals year around.


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## Razorback21 (May 13, 2003)

Bulls obviously are necessary for large cow/calf operations, but for anything from 2-50 head, AI is the way to go. As MT Plainsman said, it is less expensive to AI, versus keeping a bull. 

Getting knocked down by a bull is no fun. I was run over by a bull when I was 10 and a couple of years ago, a bull head butted me in the gut and knocked me down. You don't appreciate the power of an animal until something like that happens to you. I consider myself fortunate to have just the injuries I did.

Razorback21


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## jerzeygurl (Jan 21, 2005)

yes bulls are bad, so are cows, 

I personally have had more cow related injuries than bull...( but i keep a baseball bat arround when I am with the bull.)

most people on here have stressed the dangers of owning a bull. we use one that is young then we eat them....and to those who say if i can eat him he isnt worth using, think of this, I buy from dairy or from those who have bought from a dairy...mamma was a milker and a keeper and its done me well for quite a few years.( daddy was probably a ai job)


people not used to cattle should not keep a bull, that cute little jersey feller can and will gladly kill you....

cats are dangerous too, dd spent 3 days in the hospital with cat scatch fever....I have had dogs turn on me

4 wheelers kill people, as do horses

caution is key along with common sense


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

jerzeygurl, it isn't just people that are new to cattle that get hurt and killed by bulls but more often people who are complacent or overly trusting. Cows can certainly be dangerous but I find them quite a bit more predictable than bulls. At one time, we were boarding up to 50 bulls a winter and out of the many hundreds of various breeds I've encountered, I can assure you that they are far more dangerous than a cow. They are a great deal larger than a cow, just as athletic and the sheer power/muscles in their front quarter far exceeds that of a cow. I've never seen a cow simply flick her head and toss a human as far or as high as a bull can. The absolute worst bull I ever had to deal with was a big money show bull that had retired from the show ring to pasture breeding. He lacked manners and respect and would literally hunt you and work your position in a pen till he had you cornered without a person realizing what he had done and if I had known he had put 2 people in hospital, I wouldn't have allowed him on the place. His owner was in the hospital for surgery for damage to a shoulder the bull had caused so I took to carrying bear spray and a handgun when I had to feed him. I even tried to convince the vet to declare him infertile when he semen tested (for the owner's own safety) but the vet didn't stick around long enough to test him after his assistant miscalculated on the headgate of the chute and he literally tore the pen apart and killed a yearling bull in the process.


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## bigfoot2you (Oct 3, 2007)

I do realize that being a homestead based site, many folks are just jumping into the raising of various farm critters that they've never yet been around, or at least since their younger years.

IMO this says it all!!! As the economy gets worse and worse more people are doing this. In my area farms are selling off bull calves cheap, and folks are buying them with the intent to have "meat" They arn't having them clamped, don't want to bother if they are only going to butcher anyways.........an animal is just that! An animal.......I'm afraid a lot of folks are going to be hurt!

Tks for the post MT!!


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## greeneyedgirl70 (Aug 26, 2007)

If i have to be where the cattle are, I always carry a big stick! They make me nervous!

I have a 7 year old daughter and she is always sneaking in there with the cattle to pet the mules. 
She lays on her belly and goes under the electric fence and scares me to death. She just sneaks off in there on me. 
One minute she is running around playing the next im hollering to her and no answer, i go looking and there she is all smiles.
No matter what i tell her she still sneaks off in there.


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## AR Transplant (Mar 20, 2004)

greeneyed girl, honey are you kidding?

I am going to be very direct and ask you, if she ran off and laid in the middle of the highway would you be equally as laid back about it?

I advise that you do a little grounding for this little darling. I would make her stay in the house intil she understood the message. It will be more work for you but it beats having to make funeral arrangements.

And I am going to go ahead and say it, if she disobeyed me in that fashion I would tan her hide. And I am not talking about a little tap on the bottom, I would make sure the message was received.

Good grief, I have never heard of something so irresponsible. You are the mom, get some guts and make her mind. And for darn sure that little girl wouldn't be smiling.


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## greeneyedgirl70 (Aug 26, 2007)

AR Transplant said:


> greeneyed girl, honey are you kidding?
> 
> I am going to be very direct and ask you, if she ran off and laid in the middle of the highway would you be equally as laid back about it?
> 
> ...



No I was not kidding....

Well honestly there is no chance of that happening, she dont have the interest in moving vehicles just animals, its the little farmer in her. 
Not to mention we live about an hour from any busy highway....So i will never have that worry!

By the way thank you for your opinion and advice....

Also, I am not irresponsible at all, my daughters safety is always first I love her, she is the greatest Gift God has ever given me.

We live on a farm and ya know *kids that are raised on a farm, live the life*. It just how it is.

Part of her chores she also collects the eggs and ya know there is always a chance of getting flogged or pecked? 

Hey now we are homesteading farmers, Even my daughter...she is proud of it!. 
What things do you think kids did that was raised on homesteads/farms back in the day, Sit and chew straw?


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## AR Transplant (Mar 20, 2004)

Well, you know what? I don't know anything about mules. Are you telling me that they are safe for your seven year old to play with?

If that is the case, then why do you tell her to stay out? You also mentioned cattle. Are you saying that the cattle are safe for her to play around?

But you said the she sneaked. Why would she sneak if it were ok to go out there?

I have 4 kids and 3 gkids, they also live the farm life, and that is what I want them to do, live. That is why I don't let them play in the field where the cattle are.

I guess I don't understand your situation, is it safe for your child to play in the field? My kids get to go out in the field, but I am with them and I make sure they are safe. If my gkid snuck out in the field I would ask my daughter to address the situation immediately. And if I were not happy with the addressing of the situation they would not be coming around here for a while.
I just could not live with myself if one of my kids were hurt when I could have stopped it.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

I suspect many a dairy widow has said something like: We just don't know what happened. That bull was gentle as a kitten. Bob went down to feed it and, if we didn't recognize his coveralls, wouldn't have known it was him.

Locally a guy raised a bottle fed beef bull. One day he was walking across the pasture, stopped by to scratch the bull's ears and then walked away. Bull charged him and about the only thing which saved his life is the bull eventally pushed him under a fence. Was in the hospital for about six months. Near as they can figure the bull had been fighting with another bull, lost and took it out on Billy. One of his sons went out and dropped the bull in the pasture.


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## randiliana (Feb 22, 2008)

greeneyedgirl70 said:


> No I was not kidding....
> 
> Well honestly there is no chance of that happening, she dont have the interest in moving vehicles just animals, its the little farmer in her.
> Not to mention we live about an hour from any busy highway....So i will never have that worry!
> ...


OH, WOW!! I grew up on a farm, my kids are growing up on the farm!! They have rules, and they know what will happen if they don't follow them!! They are not to go in the pens where there are cattle, without an adult, and I can guarantee that if I had one that kept 'sneaking' off to the pasture, among the cows, she/he would be getting more than just a talking to. The first time would be discussion, after all how do they know what and why they aren't supposed to go there? Second, they would get grounded, but good, and if I ever caught them in there a third time, well, lets just say that they WOULD get the point. Much rather a spanking, than a injured or DEAD kid!!

Yeah, they live the life, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't follow the RULES!!

You think that you can trust your cows, well, you may well be able to, but what if one of them has an arguement with one of the others, and ends up running your little darling over?? Just cause the cow doesn't mean to hurt you/her, doesn't mean you didn't get hurt, now does it!! You know what happens if you surprise a cow (or a mule) from behind?? Kids just don't realize these things. And little daredevils are even worse, cause they just aren't scared of things, they don't know common sense, so they don't use it!!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I lived 'the life' and my kids 'lived the life' but the learned quite quickly that if they wanted to live, they followed my rules and example. Each of them have grown into fine people and two have outstanding livestock skills but they were mentored and not allowed to take foolish risks. Kids that were raised back in the day died, very few families had all their children reach adulthood and if you stop and read current farm statistics, a child has a great chance of accidental death or injury if they live on a working farm.


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## bumpus (Jul 30, 2003)

.
Animal live by there own rules not mans rules.

When livestock decide to attack they don't care about life or the law.

You may be young or old the bull does not care and the older he gets the more dangerous he is.

If a 200lb bull hits a child they are either hurt or dead he does not care and he might just be playing.

Never, Never, play with a bull which will only make him harder to handle as he gets older.

Remember a bull is not afraid to fight another bull and you are more like a fly to him.

bumpus
.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Frankly, I've always thought an old cow was more dangerous than a bull if for no other reason than we tend to be more cautious around bulls. 

We had a neighbor, third generation SD rancher, who had a pet buffalo calf. Like most pet babies, he had grown into a nearly full-sized animal complete with horns. He happened to be running out a gate one afternoon, gave a playful shake of his head to the neighbor, and split him from his sternum to his collarbone. 

It was tragic. His wife sold the ranch.


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

My great grandfather had an Ayrshire bull who turned on and killed him. We've heard of several stories over the years from around our county of bull incidences and one death we know of in a neighboring county. 

Our family has AI'd exclusively as long as I can remember. There's no better way to keep a bull than "chilled". (Same goes for hogs or goats imo). I AI for several other folks which pays for the N2 delivery every 8 weeks and they are thrilled! (Well, maybe not with the heat detection lecture I give them). The tank, equipment and training class are an initial cost, but very well worth it. Probably most folks can learn to do it, although I think it takes more effort to catch them in 1st standing heat than to actually service the cow. If you AI yourself then you can afford to breed her twice in an 8 to 12-hour period.

I don't think we can be reminded enough how dangerous intact males are. Maybe a good stickie? FIL keeps a cleanup bull and the most problem he has (so far) is the bull pacing the fence with the neighbor's bull. He has to keep a second electrified buffer fence or the bank would erode away in one spot. He never walks out in the field with the bull. The bull is penned up during calving season, so gathering up a stray or sick calf isn't too much of a problem, although Mammas can be dangerous too. His cows aren't tame either, but they usually back away or run. He has always taken a tractor, 4-wheeler or gator in the pasture and a cattle dog, and won't let anyone just walk out into the field because a 2-foot certainly can not outrun a bovine beast on 4.


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