# Root Celler?



## Coloneldad5 (Dec 6, 2011)

I guess this would be the correct place for this question.

Due to budgetary issues I did not build my house with a basement on my homestead, instead I went with Plan B: build garage with apartment over it. The draw back on this option was that I don't have a basement. Normally I would store many items in a 'cool' basement and not worry too much about it. Without the basement I am looking to do an independent root celler. As the water table is not an issue I am looking to build one using cinder blocks with a cement floor. Chances are I am going to have to do the digging, cement work (probably by bags) and all masonary work. I am figuring something probably along the line of at least 6'x10' or so. 

Anyone know of some general plans that I might be able to get or other guidance for doing this that might help me?

Thanks,
David


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## miboje (Sep 22, 2009)

I am going to be in the same situation as you are in a few years. I don't have any first-hand experience, but I will be referring to some books. Here is one on amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guid...=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325950528&sr=1-9


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

The term "root cellar", in today's culture, and Utah, raises questions in my mind. 

Old time root cellars, IIRC, were for storage of long life crops from the garden. That purpose is still valid, but different than in the past. Refrigerators perform most of that function now, but, a root cellar would be larger and cheaper to operate.

What would your list of uses for this root cellar be?

You describe a living space above your garage. Could you build a "walk in" cooler attached to the north side of that garage with the entry in the garage? 

That might simplify the digging portion of the job. A cement floor, and concrete block walls, would be easier than digging a deep hole. The soil could be mounded up the sides to create the same effect as digging down.

I occasionally look at auction sites, and walk-in refrigerators are common where restaurants, etc., are closed. That might also be a consideration. 

Good luck. I look forward to replies from others.
Gary


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## Coloneldad5 (Dec 6, 2011)

I already have a couple of freezers and a couple extra fridges. I am looking for the old fashioned root celler to store potatos, vegetables and such over the winter. And yes I am looking for the cheaper operation of storage than a cooler.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Mine is 6'x8', end door, built into a hill, back buried, front, half above ground. Outside steps down to floor level. 2"x8" insulated walls insulated attic and door. Drain in floor, daylighted downhill. 6" pipe vent near the floor out the back, to above ground and a 4" ceiling vent out the roof. Metal roofing. Make sure the width is enough for your storage bins and a pathway. I use old prune lugs from a prune dryer for crates. All storage bins or crates need bottom ventalation. I put the bottom crates on 2"x2" to keep the crates off the damp floor and for air movement under them. Works great here but we have wet and moderate temps....James


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

If the water table isn't much of a factor in your location, you could use braced earth bags filled on site with the dirt from your hole and a few inches of tamped gravel on the floor. A small amount of seepage or humidity is a good thing as long as you have enough ventilation to prevent mold and aren't storing stuff directly on the floor. Building with earthbag could save you some of the expense and labor of purchasing and hauling the concrete and cinder blocks in any case. If you can salvage the sacks (look for misprints or used ones at feed and grain mills), the rebar to anchor them, and the odd bit of lumber, this project might not cost you much more than your time and labor. I've even seen folks make their own bags and "tubes" from old bedsheets they picked up for a steal at the local thrift store.

I'm not sure whether you have a level lot, so you're looking to make a hatch and ladder down into your cellar; or if you're on a slope and can have a proper door, either vertical or angled like a storm cellar's. Either way would work with earthbag, but how you design your roof might change.

Here's a guy who put in a root cellar with earthbags on a slope with a full door on the lee side. He used ferrocement and wire lathe to make a barrel roof, but there are other options that could work if you wanted that type of ceiling for the best moisture control... an old EPDM pond liner over wire or wood lathe and then covered with soil for example.

If you're on a level lot, you may consider building a larder shed directly over your root cellar with either a staircase or floor hatch down into your cellar. The shed gives you space to hang produce to dry, store food that isn't temperature sensitive, butcher or process the harvest, or just store all your empty canning jars or used cans for recycling. The benefit is that your root cellar's roof is actually a floor, which is easier to build (and hide), the larder itself offers more frost and heat protection for the cellar, and you have more options for durable roofing when it isn't right on the ground. You may even find a used shed or shed kit on sale that would be a perfect fit if you didn't want to build it yourself.

Any of the following books would be a great place to start for planning:
Build Your Own Underground Root Cellar -- P. Hobson for Storey Publications
The Complete Root Cellar Book - Mawell & MacKenzie
Root Cellaring - The Bubels
The Complete Guide to Your New Root Cellar - J. Fryer for Back-to-Basics Publications


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I'm in a similar situation. I was...was...considering a "dual-purpose" cellar, i.e. part for roots; part for canning jars. Each require a different atmosphere. Since considering this, I have seen the possibility of building a small house (with a basement), which means I don't need to create a duel-purpose cellar. Instead I can create a "root cellar". [I will probably add some curvature to the entrance(s) that could be useful as a bomb shelter if ever needed.]

This type of simple "root" cellar will have a dirt floor as it is on top of a knoll and will not be bothered by a water table. I have been thinking of using blocks; however, will be watching this thread for possibilities of other designs as I cannot get this started until this summer's dry spell anyway.


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

If you're going to store canning jars in a root cellar, make sure that you take the metal bands off them first. The humidity in a root cellar will permanently rust the rings on jars and does horrible things to cans (ask how I know  ) Having two separate sections in the cellar helps, one that has more ventilation and a gravel floor so it's a bit drier, and the other with less ventilation and a dirt floor to keep the humidity up. Bandless jars and buckets would go in the dry side if you stored them down there (but never cans!!).

Alternately, if you don't have too much frost danger, you can keep jars, cans and buckets in a larder/shed above the actual root cellar as long as it doesn't get too hot in there during the summer. #10 cans, jars or buckets of dry goods are fine in a shed even if it freezes. Jars and buckets of wet goods tend to explode when they freeze unless they are only 2/3 full. Canned wet goods, as long as they aren't 100% liquid like juice or broth, don't tend to explode if they freeze but the texture of the food can be pretty nasty after it thaws (think cat food). Heat deteriorates everything, so it's best to build your root cellar and any larder sheds on the north side of the house (or south side if you're Down Under), preferably in the shadow of the house itself or on the non-sunny side of a hill or shaded by a hill or lots of trees. The only exceptions are if you use a lot of insulation, or you actually need some sun to keep the temps inside above freezing in winter.


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

Insulation ????
Air ?????
With group members being from many different ecosystems, are these not variable?
Is there a range of temperature and humidity which could apply for all of us?
My refrigerator is set at 38 degrees. Is 50 ok for a root cellar?

When I think "root cellar" I see a hole in the ground. Here in CO 3ft is the frost line. Below the frost line, the "root cellar" would stay at the temperature of the surrounding earth, without insulation. Does a refrigerator become a "root cellar" if it is covered with soil and not plugged in?

There is no way I can afford to dig 9ft (3+6) into a granite mountain. I will need insulation. I will also need to protect it from the elements. My climate is dry, should I add humidity?
gary


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

Oh yeah, thanks for the links PlicketyCat. They probably answer my questions, and I liked the ferrocement job.
gary


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

gobug said:


> Insulation ????
> Air ?????
> With group members being from many different ecosystems, are these not variable?
> Is there a range of temperature and humidity which could apply for all of us?
> ...


Hey Gary, unfortunately there isn't a one-size-fits-all solution because everyone has different conditions, resources and goals. Unless we all wanted to completely over-engineer the thing and possibly go into debt to build something that would do everything everywhere or does nothing well anywhere (hey, the gov't seems to think that solution works LOL).

The temperature range and humidity you need in your cellar depends entirely on what you want to store down there, and for how long. Some general guidelines:

If you want to keep hermetically sealed, shelf-stable, long-term storage foods or canned goods down there... then 50F would be fine "indefinitely" as long as you don't have exposed metal that could corrode in high humidity. 

If you wanted to store a few lingering veggies from the garden past last frost, like hanging your tomato vines to finish ripening, or onions, apples and potatoes 50F would be fine for a month or two as long as it wasn't too humid. You could probably even store unwashed eggs, butter, lard, cooking oils, dry meats and wrapped cheeses there (real farm food not processed grocery store!). You could also keep yogurt, cream and buttermilk at that temp for a week or two between batches.

If you wanted to store fall cabbages, carrots, and other softer "crisp" veg that like more humidity, they might do OK at 50F for a few weeks, but they might start to mold and won't last as long before naturally spoiling as they would if it were between 35 & 40. If it were down to 35, you could probably keep anything down there that you could keep in a fridge.

The Bubels wrote a pretty in depth article for MEN which talks about temps and humidity and ways to achieve the best results.

A root cellar is just a hole in the ground that stays pretty darned closed to the soil's stable ambient temperature year-round. If you buried your fridge and insulated the top to frost line, it would be a root cellar. There was even a guy who backed an old freezer van into a hill and buried it under several feet of soil -- no digging! And the hole doesn't have to be into the ground, if you can pile the ground up and over to a sufficient depth to stabilize the temperatures, which would depend on how much, if any, insulation you put on your "box". Earth isn't that great an insulator (in fact, it's a pretty good conductor) but it can provide a LOT of thermal mass which helps moderate internal temperatures.

So, instead of digging down through all that lovely granite, you might see if you can find a location on your property that you can build up against a hill or a nice shady spot that doesn't get direct sun... and then berm up and over your insulated "cellar" instead. With a foot of soil on the top, you should get away with regular batts between 2x4 studwall, and 1" foam board around the outside, or build with ICF instead of concrete blocks.

But, since you have low relative humidity in your location, if you're storing anything that likes it cold and moist, you're probably going to need to add some humidity. A dirt floor might not be enough, so you may have to leave a tray or bucket of water out in the "wet room" to help things. Just be careful that ventilate enough not to get moldy, but not too much so it freezes or dries everything out. Don't worry, soil actually wants to stay a constant temp and humidity, so it should be easy to maintain once you figure out what works best for your cellar.


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## Blue Blazes (Jan 10, 2012)

While not for eveyone due to the work involved in strengthening the unit, a Sea container works well as a root celler. We have too much rock to dig deep, but a hillside escavated works like a champ.


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

There are several alternatives for "root cellaring" other than actually digging out and building a full-on cellar. Digging isn't always an available or best option for everyone... bedrock, high water table, poor draining heavy clay soils, poor bearing sandy soils, and permafrost are just a few problems you can run into before you even start talking about the weather 

Anyway, you could (partially) bury and/or berm over a large cooler, a defunct fridge/freezer, a metal trash can, a 55 gallon drum, or a section of culvert/drainage tile. As long as you waterproofed it, ventilated it and insulated it well and kept the opening out of too much direct sunlight, the temp and humidity inside should remain fairly constant coolness and above freezing. It might not be as cold as a refrigerator, but it should be consistently cool enough to extend the shelf-life of most foods. Not every root cellar has to be a walk-in 

Here's another good article from the folks at Hobby Farms. 

You may also be able to find a good deal on concrete, metal, or molded plastic cistern or septic tanks that have failed quality control testing at a manufacturer near you. Just because it wouldn't work properly for it's intended purpose, doesn't meant that it wouldn't work just fine as a storage "cellar"... even if it was just placed on a level pad on grade and then covered with insulation and soil.

Another quick fix for cool storage in summer or hot climates is based on evaporative cooling... have 2 unglazed clay pots, one that nests inside the other with a few inches of space. Put your food in the inside pot, cover it, and fill the space in between with water. During the course of the day, water will slowly sweat through the clay of the outer pot and evaporate, which cools the whole thing down. A small amount of water will also sweat into the inner pot, usually just enough to keep proper humidity. Take the lids off at night when the temperature drops to allow fresh cool air to circulate.


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## "SPIKE" (Dec 7, 2011)

Here is what I did. This may at least help you think about it. 
If you are physically fit, somewhat mentally sound, and *fully responsible for your actions and safety*; Then IMO YOU CAN DO IT!

I have been around construction a large part of my life, but I was/am an electrician. So without a background in structural strength, I may have over built. But it is for sure safe!

http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/vb/showthread.php?t=19039

SPIKE


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## Farmer Dave (Jan 1, 2003)

[QUOTE="SPIKE";5634129]Here is what I did. This may at least help you think about it. 
If you are physically fit, somewhat mentally sound, and *fully responsible for your actions and safety*; Then IMO YOU CAN DO IT!

I have been around construction a large part of my life, but I was/am an electrician. So without a background in structural strength, I may have over built. But it is for sure safe!

http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/vb/showthread.php?t=19039

SPIKE[/QUOTE]

I checked out your storm cellar and I'm very impressed. I've been wanting to build one on my homestead for a long time. I only have a mobile home on my property and have no safe place in the event of a storm. What did you use to dig the hole? That is what has been holding me back...I would have to dig by hand since I don't have access to a backhole. I've also been out of work since 2009 so I don't have the finances to hire it done. Anyway, your cellar is the nicest one I've ever seen. Thanks for sharing the photos.


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## Faith (Jun 13, 2008)

Wow! That root cellar is amazing. I'm just wondering if it's possible to use an unheated unused upstairs bedroom to keep potatoes, carrots etc. 
I also have a small area under my house where the furnace and hot water tank are (the furnace is not in use but the hot water tank is) that I could put vege's. Most of the area under the house is a crawl space with a dirt floor. Would that work even with the heat thrown from the hot water heater.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Spike, I went over and looked at what you constructed. Nice job!

We are in exactly the same situation you are in, i.e. living in a trailer with no safe place to go when bad storms come over.

Thus, I am hoping to put in a "root" cellar that can serve as a "storm" shelter. We will be doing it by hand too. Thanks for sharing those pics with us Spike.


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## "SPIKE" (Dec 7, 2011)

Farmer Dave said:


> I checked out your storm cellar and I'm very impressed. I've been wanting to build one on my homestead for a long time. I only have a mobile home on my property and have no safe place in the event of a storm. What did you use to dig the hole? That is what has been holding me back...I would have to dig by hand since I don't have access to a backhole. I've also been out of work since 2009 so I don't have the finances to hire it done. Anyway, your cellar is the nicest one I've ever seen. Thanks for sharing the photos.


Thanks Farmer Dave.
I am one Hard Headed Little Fellow. If I had money, I probably would be dangerous!ound:
I started the digging with a shovel,pick, and my little 40 hp tractor with front bucket. I was I was doing well until I had to pull off for a few days. I had dug into some hard packed red sand and after it had a few days exposure to air, it just got too hard to dig by hand. It became like soft rock. Progress became too slow.
I finally rented a mini excavator for a weekend to finish most of the digging. I think it cost me around $260 for the weekend.

It definately gives a good feeling when the tornadoes get close.

SPIKE


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## "SPIKE" (Dec 7, 2011)

Faith said:


> Wow! That root cellar is amazing. I'm just wondering if it's possible to use an unheated unused upstairs bedroom to keep potatoes, carrots etc.
> I also have a small area under my house where the furnace and hot water tank are (the furnace is not in use but the hot water tank is) that I could put vege's. Most of the area under the house is a crawl space with a dirt floor. Would that work even with the heat thrown from the hot water heater.


Being in Canada, I'm sure you could make something work for you. Get a thermometer and chech the temp. The water heater may not make it too warm. You could possibly partition off an area if needed. The right humidity is also important for food storage.

SPIKE


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## "SPIKE" (Dec 7, 2011)

motdaugrnds said:


> Spike, I went over and looked at what you constructed. Nice job!
> 
> We are in exactly the same situation you are in, i.e. living in a trailer with no safe place to go when bad storms come over.
> 
> Thus, I am hoping to put in a "root" cellar that can serve as a "storm" shelter. We will be doing it by hand too. Thanks for sharing those pics with us Spike.


Thanks and you are welcome. Just the peace of mind because it is there is priceless for a mobile home dweller.:goodjob:
It is well worth the effort. 

SPIKE


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Faith said:


> Wow! That root cellar is amazing. I'm just wondering if it's possible to use an unheated unused upstairs bedroom to keep potatoes, carrots etc.
> I also have a small area under my house where the furnace and hot water tank are (the furnace is not in use but the hot water tank is) that I could put vege's. Most of the area under the house is a crawl space with a dirt floor. Would that work even with the heat thrown from the hot water heater.


In Canada maybe but a second story is usually too warm and dry. A root cellar can be above ground or mostly above ground, normal construction methods and well insulated. Controlled humidity is the key, 1 pipe inlet, 1 pipe outlet near the bottom with a damper or cap. You can add a bucket or tray of water....James


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Spike, just checked it out and I will be showing your Root Cellar to DH. We have the whole for ours dug into a hillside just like yours. Initially, we were going to use concrete forms and build it out of poured concrete, but are reconsidering (cost...). When we are able to build it, there will be an ante room and a back room.


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## "SPIKE" (Dec 7, 2011)

lorichristie said:


> Spike, just checked it out and I will be showing your Root Cellar to DH. We have the whole for ours dug into a hillside just like yours. Initially, we were going to use concrete forms and build it out of poured concrete, but are reconsidering (cost...). When we are able to build it, there will be an ante room and a back room.


I'm not sure what would be the most cost effecient. I had most of the material on hand; blocks, rebar, barjoist, etc.
Most places that make blocks have seconds or defects that can be purchased a bit cheaper. Minor defects would not mater if you are going to fill them all with concrete and steel.

You already have a hole, so don't stop now!:goodjob:

SPIKE


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## Faith (Jun 13, 2008)

Thanks for the advice. The upstairs room stays around 40 during the winter but would fluctuate in the fall. I haven't checked the crawl space yet.


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## Wis Bang 2 (Jan 12, 2010)

Faith said:


> Wow! That root cellar is amazing. I'm just wondering if it's possible to use an unheated unused upstairs bedroom to keep potatoes, carrots etc.


I remember my mom doing just this, dad was helping a man garden and they had potatoes spread out on newspapers in the extra bedroom. Kept' em till spring.


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## Faith (Jun 13, 2008)

Thanks it's good to know it may work.


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## Coloneldad5 (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks folks for all the help and advice. 

Spike I like your set up. I am thinking about doing it similar to yours but as my land is all flat I don't have a hillside to dig into. I'll have to go down with some coverings. I too tend to over engineer things. Did you poor cement into the blocks? or just left them open? I anticipate that I'll have to put in a sloping stairs to the door for mine. Most of my excavation will probably be with a shovel and the help of my boys. I rather suspect that I have a lot of work ahead of me. :roll eyes:


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## "SPIKE" (Dec 7, 2011)

Coloneldad5 said:


> Thanks folks for all the help and advice.
> 
> Spike I like your set up. I am thinking about doing it similar to yours but as my land is all flat I don't have a hillside to dig into. I'll have to go down with some coverings. I too tend to over engineer things. Did you poor cement into the blocks? or just left them open? I anticipate that I'll have to put in a sloping stairs to the door for mine. Most of my excavation will probably be with a shovel and the help of my boys. I rather suspect that I have a lot of work ahead of me. :roll eyes:


Yes, the blocks are all poured full of concrete and there is rebar in atleast one cell of every block. In the pictures you can see that there is rebar in the slab, tied to rebar in the walls(horizontally and vertically), tied to rebar across the top. I am confident it will be here long after I am gone.

SPIKE


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## birdman1 (Oct 3, 2011)

make sure to figgure in a good ventaliation sestem you need air flow to remove excess moisture and have fresh air I love my root cellar but due to sealing it up to tight I have trouble with moisture condinceing on the celling and dripping


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## "SPIKE" (Dec 7, 2011)

birdman1 said:


> make sure to figgure in a good ventaliation sestem you need air flow to remove excess moisture and have fresh air I love my root cellar but due to sealing it up to tight I have trouble with moisture condinceing on the celling and dripping


You are right. Ventilation and moisture control are very important. My storm shelter/root cellar has closable intakes in the front wall and vents through the roof for good air exchange. But since some root cellar veges require high humidity, when I poured the floor I blocked out an area and then later filled it with pavers. That way if it gets too dry, I can pour water on the pavers. They should soak up the water and add moisture back. I have never had to add water, so that may have been unnecessary. But it did add a bit of character to the floor.LOL 

SPIKE


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