# Best Deer Rifle for meat



## hfwarner3

I have heard the argument before - you can buy a smaller caliber deer rifle and get more meat or you can go larger and never have to track. Well, I am buying a deer rifle and am somewhat torn.

First, I am an experienced rifle shooter but inexperienced hunter. I have been deer hunting but never seen a deer. So I guess I am a BAD deer hunter. 

I have always had .308 rifles in the past and just assumed I would find a good, used rifle in .308 to use for hunting this winter. My BIL is trading up his 30-30 to go for a .300 Win Mag. To me, that is one step below an anti-tank weapon. I have only seen one kill with a 300 mag but it almost took a front shoulder off. We hunt in the woods here so 100 meters is a very long shot for us. Most of the deer hunters I work with use a 7mm Mag with a couple of guys using 30-06 but they all admit that lose of meat is of low concern to them.

So what suggestions do the deer hunters in the crowd have? Since I have never had a deer in my sights yet, which caliber should I consider for a 40-80 meter white tail shot that won't waste meat but won't send me off on a hike either? Is .308 too much or is it a good trade-off?


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## tn_junk

Get your BIL's .30-30. There is no better 100 yard deer gun made. I lost count of how many I killed with mine, and they never went more than 30-40 yards. Usually not half that far. There was never any serious meat loss.
A .308 is also a really good, and more versatile, round.

alan


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## Cabin Fever

.30-30 seems to work okay for me.


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## hfwarner3

I offered to buy my BIL 30-30, but it is part of the deal. He is trading the 30-30 plus cash with a guy for a .300 Win Mag. I like the 30-30, but if I had to choose just between the two, I would choose .308 since I have been shooting it since my military days and am used to it. 

But a level-action 30-30 is WAY more cowboy.


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## whistler

hfwarner3 said:


> I offered to buy my BIL 30-30, but it is part of the deal. He is trading the 30-30 plus cash with a guy for a .300 Win Mag. I like the 30-30, but if I had to choose just between the two, I would choose .308 since I have been shooting it since my military days and am used to it.
> 
> But a level-action 30-30 is WAY more cowboy.


Stick with the .308 if that's what you know.

I think more important than caliber in determining meat loss is where you hit the deer. A full broadside double lunger that hits behind the shoulder 2" will waste next to nothing - no matter what the bullet. A quartering away heart shot that smashes one shoulder is going to waste a whole lot more -- no matter what the bullet. 

In short I wouldn't worry about the meat loss on a .308 versus anything smaller.

Whistler


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## hfwarner3

The shot I saw was down on the deer from a tree stand, going in high on the left side and hitting the right shoulder with a .300 Win Mag. It was a big mess.


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## hunter63

Personal preference will dictate answers here.
I will tell you that I am a 7mm Mag guy, have used it from 10 ft to 300+ yards and every thing just falls down, dead.

Heard all the stories about meat damage, this has never been the case with mine.
Factory loads Rem 150 grain Cor-loc's.
Inside heart/lung area is a different story, usally, just red soup.
Have seen the worst meat damage with a 30-30 on a thru and thru, but only once.
Shot placement has a whole lot to do with meat damage.

I do think the a .300 Win mag might be a tad much, but then again it depends on area and what else you might want to hunt with it.

My order of prefrence would be;
7mm Mag
.270
.243
.30-30
.308
30.06
.300 Win Mag.
If your comfortable with a .308, I would go with that, several friends use them and swear by them.
P.S. Native American word for "vegetarian" is "bad hunter".


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## whistler

hfwarner3 said:


> The shot I saw was down on the deer from a tree stand, going in high on the left side and hitting the right shoulder with a .300 Win Mag. It was a big mess.


Hitting bone will do it everytime.


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## clawmute

Stick with the .308 - I have for over 35 years. Good enough for the Olympic shooting teams. Still one of the best. Collected 4 this past fall with mine. I have a 45-70 govt. I sometimes use for woods still hunting.


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## Murray in ME

If you like the .308, stick with it. It will serve you very well. As will the 30-06, 30-30, .270, ect., ect. It's not so much what you hit them with, it's where you hit them that matters.

Great bucks Cabin Fever.


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## hunter63

Sorry had to add this,
Actually the best rifle for meat preservation is a head shot with a .22/.22 mag, frowned upon by most any DNR types.


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## whistler

true. a head shot with just about anything will waste very little meat unless you are into CWD headcheese.

whistler


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## littlejoe

The 30/30 would certainly work under those conditions, but a .308 is ballistically far superior, and has a wide range of bullets that would enable you to hunt more in different situations.


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## tallpaul

It depends on alot of factors in reality. The thirty thirty for your use is likely ideal as is a .308. I doubt ya can go wrong with either. It depends on the platform and available funds at this point. I have little rifle experince since since we are a shotgun /pistol /ML only state for deer. 

I have many deer capable rifles and would not feel bad with any of em at the ranges you have. The ole 30-30 or .44 levergun may just be taken for those ranges. The 7mm mag or .308 or 45-70 sharps might come out if longer ranges were anticipated


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## tallpaul

hunter63 said:


> I do think the a .300 Win mag might be a tad much, but then again it depends on area and what else you might want to hunt with it.


I find that statement just a bit odd considerin the fact that you like the 7mm mag. The 7mm remington mag and 300 winchester mag use the same parent case... bullet selection would likely be the big difference. Both can destroy meat if the wrong bullet is used as well as do too little damage if the wrong bullet is used. 

Both are great all around rounds with the correct bullet choice.


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## idontno

Don't try to shoot the heart.It makes it messy.Just shoot at the center of the neck right below the ear.You deer will be in the same spot you shot him.The bigger gun you use the better the outcome will be.But you won't waste anything with a neck shot.Plus it will bleed out good.. idontno


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## WindowOrMirror

the best rifle for deer is whichever YOU can shoot best with in a caliber better than .22 LR.

For me that's a 30-30 lever-action (Win) or The Hammer (.444 carbine)


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## diamondtim

It really comes down to what you can comfortably shoot and hit your target. Putting the bullet where you want it to go. I shoot a .308 in my grandfather's old Winchester Model 100. Good round in a good gun. Have killed every deer I've shot at. One shot kills.

I haven't seen the need to go to a magnum round. To me, it seems like overkill. But to each his own. 

If I were you I would look for a good quality rifle (excellent trigger, accurate barrel, comfortable stock) with high quality optics and see if they offer it in the .308. One such rifle that has my attention at the moment is a Tikka T3 (those Finns make quality arms), and they offer it in a .308.

Good Luck


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## hfwarner3

hunter63 said:


> Sorry had to add this,
> Actually the best rifle for meat preservation is a head shot with a .22/.22 mag, frowned upon by most any DNR types.


Yeah, I seem to remember a .22 being specifically forbidden for big game hunting in Georgia.


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## hfwarner3

OK, so we have one vote for a Tikka T3 in .308. Does anyone else have an specific suggestions for rifles if I stick with .308? I would love to pick up another Remington 700, but since I was a dumb, young bachelor when I dropped $2,000 grand in that one when it was all said and done. I lost that one in, a nice 22 lever action, and a 12 gauge pump in a fire.


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## Rowenna7

My DH always used to use a .300 mag. Shot placement of course was critical for not wasting meat. Most of the deer he got with it were shot in the neck with very little meat damage (and no tracking, the deer essentially dropped in place). I have however seen the same gun make a very big mess. Not going into detail as it is pretty graphic. He retired the .300 last year and switched to a 22/250. It is more accurate but doesn't quite have the knockdown power. I personally am using a .243 but have not had the opportunity to take a deer yet. From everything I've heard though, the .243 (I bought it after getting advice from this forum!) is a good deer rifle.


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## DavidUnderwood

As far as brands go, and if cost
is a factor,(it is with me) You can
hardly beat a Savage. There are
better, fancier, or prettier guns on
the market. But economy means the
most bang for the buck.
BTW, a 30.30 is a good deer killer.
So is a .308. Use what you're comfortable
with. It will serve you better in the long run.


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## hunter63

tallpaul said:


> I find that statement just a bit odd considerin the fact that you like the 7mm mag. The 7mm remington mag and 300 winchester mag use the same parent case... bullet selection would likely be the big difference. Both can destroy meat if the wrong bullet is used as well as do too little damage if the wrong bullet is used.
> 
> Both are great all around rounds with the correct bullet choice.


Yeah, funny isn't it? But that's kinda the way my mind works I guess, but your right.


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## Pops2

stick w/ what you know. you can get rem 710 package for $400 or less (comes w/ scope already mounted), nothing fancy but very serviceable rifle. the savage packages are $50-80 more but can be had w/ adjustable trigger. w/ the right bullet & shot placement you can kill everything that walks the earth.


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## hfwarner3

I have never heard anyone use a .308 and then say, "I should have used a bigger/smaller gun." 

My former boss once hit a deer with a 30/30 and ended up taking a walk for about a quarter mile through woods and brambles because he hit in the gut. He went out the next week and bought a 7mm Mag saying, "I should have used a bigger gun." 

My former neighbor was the one who made the shot with the 300 Win Mag. The deer came up behind him in the stand and he shot almost straight down at it from the stand - he said it was about 12-15 feet away from his stand when he shot it. The end result was a nearly 3 legged deer. He claimed he was aiming for the neck but I saw the deer in his truck and I would think that if I was that close to a deer and was aiming for the neck...


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## Dutch 106

Hi Guys,
Did anyone mention your talking apples and oranges here? I mean a big deer in Georgia is a hundred pounds and I've had big Wisconsin bucks go over 200 lbs field dressed!
To me a 308 Winchester is overkill on a Wisconsin deer a 300 mag I would only use if I had no other choise and I've used pistols before that!
Of course I'm a sneaky ole s***. and havn't used more than one shot or taken a shot over 60 yards per deer in a long time (knock on wood).
Thers nothing wrong with a 30-30 not a great cartridge but when you figure its been around longer than smokeless powder and was originally loaded with black powder (if I'm remembering right) it has probably taken more deer ,moose and elk. Than any other cartridge in exsistance. Now would I shoot it over a hundred yards at any thing but gong's for grins, heck no. 
I use a .243 Win for deer these days, more because its fun to shot superly accurate and mild recoil and even if the monster buck of the forest sticks his tougne out at me at 600 yards. he's in trouble because I've practised at that range. and know I can pull at 6 inch group out there if I do my part and there are no wind shifts over that range. 
Would I shoot at any normal deer at that range nope! too much work! I want to them as near to the road and at my feet as I can!
Now if a kid was going hungry I would take a deer or whatever with whatever was at hand from 22 rf pistol to 50 cal BMG doing my best to put it down with one shot as cleanly as posible, I'm a soft touch that way.
just my 2 cents,
Dutch


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## MELOC

if you are hunting for meat, pick a smaller caliber and wait for head shots. don't take the shot unless you actually have a good shot and you will never have to track.


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## dogo

The 308 is an excellent rifle for deer. Just like the guy said the bullet and placement is the biggest factor. If you reload you have a lot of choices in bullets and weight. In the 308 I would never go over a 150 grain bullet. Even lower weight would be better . I like the 300 because you can have again a lot of choices in bullet selection. from small weight on up to the big boys 200 grain or better. The bigger the game the heavier the bullet. Me I have several rifles including the 300, 270, 30-06 25-06, 45-70, just to name a few. But! My favorite rifle that has taken more deer for me is the 7-08. Remington model 7 with an atec scope, With a 140 grain accubond or a 140 Barnes they don't walk away. If you just want another rifle stay with the 308 and go with the Barnes or accubond 140 no more than 150. And I believe you will start your self a love affair. Good luck and no matter what you choose be save......


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## sammyd

I've tracked deer shot with some awful huge thing bigger than a 45-70 for half a day, I've dropped em dead with a 30-30 it isn't the size of the round that matters.

I like my old model 94 Winchester but that's the gun I grew up with, am comfortable with it and can hit stuff quite well.
BIL uses a 270 pump that really knocks em dead and can shoot out quite a ways with good accuracy.
His buddy shoots a 7mm and has good luck.
If you like and can shoot well with the 308 that would be a good gun. A couple of the folks I used to hunt with use them.
Practice and patientce go more towards a good clean kill with little waste far more than your caliber IMHO.


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## littlejoe

Caliber and cartridge are really of little consequence, as long as bullet construction and placement are designed for the job. 

A bad shot is a bad shot regardless of what you're shooting!

Shoot what you are comfortable with, and can place a killing shot within the ranges you intend to shoot!

The .308 is a terrific cartridge, and allows you lots of options if you hunt longer ranges, and/or bigger/smaller game. It also allows a wide variety of guns and actions to choose from.

If I had to choose between the two for a one gun deal.....



hfwarner3 said:


> I have never heard anyone use a .308 and then say, "I should have used a bigger/smaller gun."
> 
> My former boss once hit a deer with a 30/30 and ended up taking a walk for about a quarter mile through woods and brambles because he hit in the gut. He went out the next week and bought a 7mm Mag saying, "I should have used a bigger gun."
> 
> My former neighbor was the one who made the shot with the 300 Win Mag. The deer came up behind him in the stand and he shot almost straight down at it from the stand - he said it was about 12-15 feet away from his stand when he shot it. The end result was a nearly 3 legged deer. He claimed he was aiming for the neck but I saw the deer in his truck and I would think that if I was that close to a deer and was aiming for the neck...


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## K-9

I've killed a bunch of deer, over the years and a good number of them were with the 308 and 30-30. Both cartridges do a good job as long as you put the bullet where it needs to be. Gut shot deer generally run a ways no matter what you shoot them with. I am not a big fan of a head shot, I know a lot of people like them and I have taken them, but here is my reasoning for avoiding them, a deer head is a relatively small target that is often in motion and even if not currently in motion is subject to quick motion at anytime. So it is somewhat easy to miss or worse wound the deer, I have seen deer that have had their jaw shot away or a portion of their snout shot away by bad headshots. Also a head shot deer makes a big mess, I skin my deer by hanging them by the head and pulling the skin off with the truck/tractor this greatly reduces the amount of hair that inadvertantly gets on the meat so speed the butchering job. Now with all that said, with the parameters you set the 30-30 will serve you well if you think you may go where the shots are longer the 308 may be your better choice. If you already have a 308 spend the extra money on ammo, it isn't getting any cheaper. If you don't have a rifle I would probably go with the 30-30 it is cheaper to buy, ammo is cheaper, and it will do a fine job for what you need. Hope this helps


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## tamarackreg

Either round will serve you well. I've found that the heavier / slower .308 bullets waste less meat. 180 grain round nose are great, as are the Remington reduced recoil loads. If circumstances dictate a DRT shot put it in the shoulder. To save meat go for the lungs - there will be very little if any tracking. Head shots are very risky, it's a very small and always moving target. A deer with a damaged or missing jaw will suffer a slow death.


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## longshadowfarms

There are as many answers to this question as there are deer hunters.

I think you should ask yourself a couple of questions first. Do I want to limit myself to 150 yard shots, 100 yard shots, 50 yard shots? Is the hunting method more important or results more important? Would hunting with a traditional muzzleloader (modern muzzleloader,shotgun, bow, pistol or rifle can be inserted here) limit me or be a preferred method? 

Now to your question. I have shot deer with handguns, rifles from .223 to .375 H & H (woodchuck gun) shotguns and muzzleloaders. All centerfire rifles will kill deer with a quality bullet placed properly, within the limitations of the cartridge. If you are comfortable with a .308 it is a fine all around cartridge and it or one of the cartridges in its family, such as a .243 or the .260, will make you a fine deer gun. AND you will not be limited to shots under 100 yards if properly sighted in and practiced with. There are some fully rifled slug guns that will cloverleaf 3 slugs at 100 yds.

As an aside everything I am hearing about Savage rifles is very good if you are looking at new, I usually look for used as not too many people shoot their rifles enough to break them in let alone wear them out.

I hope I have not muddied the water too much.

Rodney


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## Dark AK

I used a 30/30 for many years cant be beat at close range I now use a 7.62 norinco sks has a little more range and doesnt blow the deer apart .Deer are main source of meat all year long for us


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## whistler

hfwarner3 said:


> My former boss once hit a deer with a 30/30 and ended up taking a walk for about a quarter mile through woods and brambles because he hit in the gut. He went out the next week and bought a 7mm Mag saying, "I should have used a bigger gun."


No your boss shouldn't have used a bigger gun. He should have made a better shot. His comment reveals a substantial amount of ignorance -- he could have shot it with just about anything in the gut and he still would have walked. 

Whistler


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## poorboy

45-70, eat right up to the hole..:duel:


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## moonwolf

Best rifle for meat hunting deer is one that is accurate for a clean, well placed kill shot at the range you know will work for you. Personally, for me the .270 works well with a scope for range shots killing good with an accurate placed spinal shot (neck) up to about 200 yards. 30-30 is a nice handling rifle for some of the closer shots and fast handling in brush. 
Both work well for my use in deer hunting for the venison freezer camp.


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## MELOC

head shots are great if you like neck roasts.


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## PyroDon

All my shots are within 100 yards in thick brush, I also have neighbors within 1000 yards in nearly every direction. 
So in my case for safety as well as a quick kill I personally use a winchester 44 mag saddle rifle. I have not suffered any more meat waste than the average bow hunter or anyother rifle kill . Ive also never had to track a deer or lost one.
If you like the heart do a head shot if the hearts not that important to you shoot the sweet spot only meat waste you'll have is two broken ribs and a liquified heart lungs and liver (using hyrashoks) 
your bullets wont be easily deflects by brush as they will with a 30-30 or other smaller caliber shells and a safet factor is your bullet will be in the dirt within 6-800 yeards often sooner depending on the angle. Rather than 12-1800 yards as is often the case with bottle neck rounds.
Alot depends on your states laws 
Mine requires the bullet caliber to be a min of .223 and the overall shell length to be no less than 1.25" my 44 barely qualifies on the length restriction.
The thing you really have to take in account is how far the bullet will travel 
for me thats the biggy , I couldnt live with my self if a bullet I shot traveled and killed an innocent person


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## Irish farmer

I like the 30.30 and the 30.06. I use the 30.06 most of the time because it will do everything a 30.30 will do, but a 30.30 wont do everything it will do.
At the same time though, I know a girl that kills a lot more deer than I do and she uses a .243. Its whatever you like and can hit with.


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## hfwarner3

I have to admit that there is a certain appeal in a .44 lever-action with a scope and a .44 revolver on my hip from a reloading factor.


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## Ed Norman

I had the original model Ruger 44 Carbine many years ago. It was a good enough deer gun, but I seldom found the brass. I sold it and just packed the Redhawk.


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## PyroDon

who needs a scope for 100 yard shot ??? 

Ed thats the nice thing about a lever action you can control the ejection and keep the brass. They also arent as picky about reloads as an automatic.
Specs will allow hotter loads for a rifle than a pistol just dont mix them up .
A friend grabbed some of my heavy loads and got lucky he only split his forehead and knocked the ejector off his Dan/wesson revolver .


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## Oldcountryboy

Here we go again. Another question that's always "my gun is better then your gun" answer. 

1st of all. You have to consider how far do you have to shoot to kill them. If you live in mountainess country you will need to pick out a caliber that will reach out far enough to hit them. If not then you can go with something with a shorter range such as a 30/30. 

Here where I hunt most of my kills are only 20 to 30 steps away from me. I don't really need long ranged caliber rifles. But I do like swift and accurate rifles for the purpose of ESP. (exact shot placement)

I use to hunt with a 30/06 all the time. But for a few short years I processed deer for hunters. The first 100 or so deer I processed I quickly realized that the majority of the hunters who took the most meat home were hunters who used smaller caliber rifles such as the 223 or 243's. 

The hunters who took the lesser amount of meat home where hunters who used large caliber rifles and made some bad shots with them. I would have hunters come pick up their little box of meat and shout out "Hey, my deer should have given me more meat than this". My reply "Yep it should have but since you made a bad shot with a cannon there wasn't much to work with". 

After doing the deer process thingy, I have switched from my 30/06 and downgraded to a 223 rifle. At 20 to 30 steps it kills just as good as the 30/06 and I take a lot more meat home. However, if I ever get to go mule deer hunting in the mountains somewhere, I will probably use my 30/06 that I still have.


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## tallpaul

As much as I love my .223's and such I would not recommend using them on the net especially for a best deer gun thread. A newbie may choose it. I think a bad hit with a big gun that harvests the deer is better than someone hitting the deer with a lesser gun only to die a slow painful death. 

So if your not very experienced please ignore the bad information he gave. Most folk with knowledge NEVER recommend less than a .243 or 30-30 and there is good reason for that. 
The .22's can work humanely with specialty bullet's,luck or skill,maybe all three

if it is legal- which it is not in most states a .22 centerfire]

Oh and BTW all cartridges need different bullet choices for different uses. That 30'06 can be loaded with a different bullet that is made for big game that wont blow up as much meat as a varmint type bullet would. The right bullet would do the job without tearing up the game at short range and if the longer shot presented itself ya could swap the round out for a more appropriate one...


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## hfwarner3

I am quite familiar with the .223 and quite frankly consider it a wounding round, not a killing round. I know people who hunt with .223 and I know that you CAN kill with it, but my personal experience with the round on the battlefield is that it makes things bleed, hurt, and die slowly. I know, deer aren't people and people aren't deer but my personal experience has been that things shot in the torso with a .308 die in seconds while things shot with a .223 end up getting medical attention. 

Feel free to post your "head shot = doesn't matter" posts now.


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## Cabin Fever

All this talk kinda makes me feel sorry for the guys who hunt in "slugs only" zones.


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## MELOC

they just save on grinding fees.


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## Hooligan

40 tp 80 meters is short range. You don't 'need' the long range ballistics of the .308 in that situation.

Around here most shots are taken at 100 yards or less and given the hilly, forested terrain a lever action 30-30 is very popular.

A lot of the "old-school" guys use the 30-06 thinking they can blast through the brush with it. I don't buy that myself, if I don't have a clean, clear shot I'll pass rather then risk wounding.

Another consideration is how much walking you do. If you are walking a hundred yards frrom the truck and sitting in a stand all day then you can carry a big heavy gun no problem. If you are like me and like to cover some ground then light weight is good. A light weight .308 will kick the snot out of you at the range.

I've carried a 30-30 and a .308 in the past. The last five years I have been carrying a Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08. The rifle is short and weighs about 7lbs. The 7mm.08 is a flat shooting round comparable ballistically with the .270.

It is a big enough bullet so that if you do your part it will do the rest but a small enough charge so that you can put some rounds through it at the range without developing a serious flinch.

How many rounds you put through it in practice is more important then what caliber it is.


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## dogo

Hooligan said:


> 40 tp 80 meters is short range. You don't 'need' the long range ballistics of the .308 in that situation.
> 
> Around here most shots are taken at 100 yards or less and given the hilly, forested terrain a lever action 30-30 is very popular.
> 
> A lot of the "old-school" guys use the 30-06 thinking they can blast through the brush with it. I don't buy that myself, if I don't have a clean, clear shot I'll pass rather then risk wounding.
> 
> Another consideration is how much walking you do. If you are walking a hundred yards frrom the truck and sitting in a stand all day then you can carry a big heavy gun no problem. If you are like me and like to cover some ground then light weight is good. A light weight .308 will kick the snot out of you at the range.
> 
> I've carried a 30-30 and a .308 in the past. The last five years I have been carrying a Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08. The rifle is short and weighs about 7lbs. The 7mm.08 is a flat shooting round comparable ballistically with the .270.
> 
> It is a big enough bullet so that if you do your part it will do the rest but a small enough charge so that you can put some rounds through it at the range without developing a serious flinch.
> 
> How many rounds you put through it in practice is more important then what caliber it is.


If you was to get away from the 3-08 the 7-08 is the way to go. It has less recoil. It is actually a a 308 necked down to a .284 and it shoots as flat as the the 270. The model 7 is the way to go. Like I said before if you get this rifle ? You will start a love affair once you burn some powder with it.


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## Cabin Fever

I've heard a lot of good info on the new [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQJSZs-euZU"].577 T-Rex[/ame] for deer hunting.


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## hfwarner3

So the Barrett Model 99 in .416 isn't the way to go?


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## tallpaul

dogo said:


> If you was to get away from the 3-08 the 7-08 is the way to go. It has less recoil. It is actually a a 308 necked down to a 25 cal. and it shoots as flat as the the 270. The model 7 is the way to go. Like I said before if you get this rifle ? You will start a love affair once you burn some powder with it.


ahhh the 7-08 is NOT the .308 necked down to .25 it is only necked down to app .28 or 7mm.

It will shoot close to the .270 but not likely as flat unless the .270 is a reduced load and the 7-08 is at max. 

Its a great round but not the exact same as a .270 - it is more efficient.

I would not feel bad having one or a few in the tool chest especially in the remington model 7 platform


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## hunter63

Cabin Fever said:


> I've heard a lot of good info on the new .577 T-Rex for deer hunting.


LOL, love that video!
I was thinking about the same one, but you beat me to it>

Tad much I would say.


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## Murray in ME

Cabin Fever said:


> I've heard a lot of good info on the new .577 T-Rex for deer hunting.


Quite an upgrade from the ol Marlin isn't it? I bet that one guy who fired it with the butt halfway down his bicep felt it for a while.


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## dogo

tallpaul said:


> ahhh the 7-08 is NOT the .308 necked down to .25 it is only necked down to app .28 or 7mm.
> 
> It will shoot close to the .270 but not likely as flat unless the .270 is a reduced load and the 7-08 is at max.
> 
> Its a great round but not the exact same as a .270 - it is more efficient.
> 
> I would not feel bad having one or a few in the tool chest especially in the remington model 7 platform


Mr. tallpaul you are right. Maybe I should have said the 7-08 is .284 and the 270 is .277 . I have both and I suppose its a matter of choice ? I would put it up against a 270 any day when it came down to taking deer out to 300 hundred yards. That's as far as I have taken deer with it. And I'm talking one shot with a 140 grain nosler ballistic tip. But on the other hand we all prefer a closer killing shot. Which the model seven if anyone has used one can tell you it is a comfort to handle . And too, the shot placement is more forgiven than a much smaller cal. than say 243, 223, or smaller. To me when you go below a certain cal. and bullet weight a person must be a good marksman or either an extremely good tracker. This is just what I have gone by and was taught. But I'm still learning . But again mr. tallpaul U were right in tech. terms sorry. You are right about choice, Remington model seven.


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## tallpaul

Dogo- I have been "late" getting into rifles and have a decent selection but if an older Remington Model 7 with the synthetic stock especially in stainless pops up in a .243,.7-08,or .308 for a great price I will have to grab it  

the big mistake ya made was likely a typo in that ya said it was necked to .25

remember its not a big deal other than some here are learning and misinformation is not something I like to let slide in the firearm realm. New folks get bad info and can mistake it as gospel  

You are right when ya say that out to 300 yards or so the 7-08 and .270 are close enough that it likely won't make a difference in harvesting deer sized game. The difference in energy and trajectory is noticeable at the longer ranges and is real.


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## Oldcountryboy

Cabin Fever said:


> I've heard a lot of good info on the new .577 T-Rex for deer hunting.


I was told that rifle will automatically grind and wrap the meat for you! 


As for the 223, as I said You need to practice Exact Shot Placement. It's not for the inexperienced hunter or the hunter who doesn't have the patience to wait for a good clear shot. I shot a 7 pointer with mine last season and dropped him right where he stood. He was probably dead within a minute. 

I wouldn't recommend it for everyone or for every situation. But since my shots are within 30 yards from me, and most generally the deer has no ideal of what's about to happen, it's the perfect caliber for my situation.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Cabin Fever said:


> All this talk kinda makes me feel sorry for the guys who hunt in "slugs only" zones.


OH don't wory to much about us slug hunters a 12 or 20 ga slug to the neck drops them on the spot 

i used to wonder why everybody didn't make neck shots when i was younger then someone told me neck shots don't work like that with a rifle many times.

so i have shot 1 deer with a rifle , 3 with a 50cal mzldr and 15-20 with slugs 


only ever had 1 slug stay in a deer it was running strait at me i shot it in the the chest i found the slug in the pelvis

i don't know how bad a rifle tares up meat , my only deer shot with a rifle was a double lung shot slugs don't seem to be that bad they usualy enter the size of a nickle exit the size of a quarter the rest depends on where with neck ----s i would say if i have to cut more than an inch around the hole it would be unusual so figure a 3 1/2 inch diamater of unisable meat but when your shooting does theres not much in thier neck anyway.


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## agmantoo

The 308 is a great gun and ammo is readily available. I have both a 308 and a 270. My personal preference is the 270 mostly because I am use to it and feel very confident with its performance. I am a meat hunter having bagged 78 deer off my farms. I process my own and I see little difference in the amount of meat damaged. Since I am going to process the deer myself I shoot not to do a lot of damage. The bone area in the shoulder is avoided unless I want the deer to drop in place. I am into shot placement. Enjoy your 308. Have you tried the Savage 308 with the Accu trigger? It is an accurate gun with good features and is somewhat affordable?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I would check out the stevens model 200 they make it in 308 

a freind bought one in 30-06 a few years ago he used to borrow one of mine 
he likes it and the price was good


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## diamondtim

Just to throw another suggestion, or two, into the pile.

One of the sweetest rifles I've ever shot was a Ruger #1 International (Mannlicher) stock in 7x57 Mauser (aka 7mm Mauser). I've also heard good comments about the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser cartridge for deer hunting.

Then there's the 8mm Mauser, the 7.5x55 Schmidt-Rubin...


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## tallpaul

Deer really are not hard to kill... with accurate bullet placement so there is a wide variety of acceptable arms perfectly capable of humanely harvesting deer. There are factory,military and handloads all sufficient for the task. Common or exotic- too many choices huh  

I too like single shots and would love ta use one of my shiloh sharps 45/70's or even my Thompson Center contender in 45/70 

A cheap H&R single shot is available in a multitude of deer capable rounds.


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## dogo

I have a handy rifle in the 45/70 and tallpaul its fun to shoot. I have hit a deer with a 300 gr. hollow point right behind the shoulder, rib cage and area and it didn't go far and what a trail it left. On the other hand just messing around with a 500 gr. Barnes round nose and all it did was punch a hole ran about 40 yards and surprisingly not much of a trail . But really the guys has a good killing rifle in the 308 . Unless he is a gun nut like me and has a lot of money stay wit it. There are so many rounds out there and Lee has a one caliber of your choice to load by hand under 20 bucks. Someone might know the name of it ? I did but can't think of it right now . If you got that You would open yourself up to a world of different wt. and size bullets. And would improve your performance .Just a thought .


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## wogglebug

In the terms given, I don't think there's much doubt a .44 magnum (revolver cartridge) lever-action would do a great job up to say 100 yards or even metres - or even 150 of either. It's about the first pistol calibre that carries guaranteed-adequate deer-killing (1,000+ ft/pounds) energy. Come to that, so would a .44 magnum pistol if you could shoot it adequately. No need for any .30 calibre or even 7mm or .270 rifle.

I will say, though, that you want a stoutly constructed premium bullet for heavier game. You want your bullet to expand enough to expend most of its energy in the target; but you want it to hold together, penetrate, and not "blow up" near the surface to create a wide shallow wound. On the other hand, expansion can ruin meat. You've got to strike a balance between knocking them down immediately so you can find them, and not damaging them too much. The right bullet can vary with the size of the game.

Opening up the discussion, things get more interesting.

There's no doubt you can use a .22 rimfire to kill any animal on the planet. That's if you hold your shot, choose your shot, aim well, and have enough strength of character not to shoot until you're sure of your kill, or at all if you don't get a sure shot. And are preferably hiding up a big enough tree. I've certainly used it to kill a lot of kangaroos, which are deer-sized. We were treating them as crop-destroying vermin though. I respected them, but there was a trifle less concern if one escaped wounded rather than being a confirmed kill, provided we knew they were killing shots. My shots didn't leave them merely wounded, as it happens, but using the .22 there WAS the possibility. There was one time I had to chase a wounded animal at a flat run for half a mile before I could finish it off. That's not a recommendation. The .22 rimfire isn't ideal for most things, although it's capable of a great deal more than many give it credit for. It does point out the fact that calibre and power aren't the sole determinants in hunting successfully.

In passing, I'll say that there's an intermediate step - the .22 WRM (Winchester Rimfire Magnum). It's substantially more powerful than the .22 long rifle, but less so than any centrefire rifle cartridge. Still, the .22 WRM in a 6" barrel pistol compares to a .38 Special in a snub-nose revolver. Much more expensive than the .22 LR though, although less so than centrefire cartridges, and it can't be reloaded. If cost and ammunition availability weren't a factor, I'd prefer the .22 magnum to the .22 LR. It's a big favourite with poachers, which says a lot about its power and quietness, but the fact is it isn't powerful enough to be a sporting deer cartridge.

I don't like excessive cost, or excessive recoil. I'm a big strong guy, and I don't have any problem with 12 gauge shotguns. However, if there's an easier way... well, anything with the word "magnum" is overly costly and generally unnecessarily uncomfortable unless you're hunting big game in Africa. Except the .22 magnum, of course, but even it's overly costly.

In fact, if I were to choose ONE rifle to do it all, and were loading my own, I think it would be either the .223 or .243. Even more so if I was allowed to buy self-loading guns for a fast second shot - which I'm not in Australia. The .223 is a nice varmint calibre, and okay for some smaller game animals, but it has weaknesses. Many MANY weaknesses. Basically, it IS a varmint round, nothing more. It can't be relied on to knock down anything man-sized - or deer-sized. And they made this a Main Battle round? Dear Lord deliver us! In that role it's at best a slightly improved version of the .30 Carbine.

In fact, the .223 will kill most things - like the .22 rimfire, only more so. Eventually. It's a current military round, which has its advantages. It's cheap to shoot and cheap to reload - it doesn't use much lead or powder. However, that magic 1,000 foot/pounds trails right off after 100 metres. Choose your shot and pass-up a lot of them, and you can get by. Remember that the Maryland sniper was using them at over three hundred yards though - just because it's not guaranteed adequate in a military situation doesn't mean it won't kill little Suzie a mile down the road. Mind you, so will a .22 rimfire or a .44 Magnum, although it's less likely.

The .243 can do anything the .223 can do, and a whole lot more. It can be loaded down to do anything the hotshot 22s will do, is more resistant to cross winds, but can be loaded up to retain that arbitrary deer-killing (or man-killing) 1,000 ft/lbs out to almost 500 metres. It stands comparision to the 6.5mm Swede, which IS definitely a capable military round, and is acceptable in Europe for shooting large game (by tested and qualified hunters). I wouldn't want to use the .243 on grizzly or polar bear, or moose, even sambar or elk, but I could if I had to. As the eskimos say (and they do), it beats poking them with a sharp stick. If I chose the .223 as my wun gun I'd always know I'd compromised, forced by circumstances. With the .243 I wouldn't have that worry.

Shoehorned in here is the .25-06 - based on a necked-down .30-06 cartridge. Nice cartridge - I like it. However, it's got more recoil than the .243 for just a little more power, and it doesn't overlap the low end of the 22s as well.

Next we come to a pair of pairs. Basically, choose one of the four. The 30-06 was a great military round, and is capable of stabilising heavy bullets up to 200 or even 220 grains. It's also loaded a lot heavier and harder these days than it was a hundred years ago, when it was introduced. That takes it up to where it will knock a grizzly base-over-apex - who needs a magnum? The .270 is a necked down 30-06, still adequate for heavy bullets that will take down any game in North America, but can go down to 100 grain bullets that will knock over light game, or function as heavy varmint bullets.

The other pair is the .308 (7.62mm NATO), a more recent military round; and the 7mm-08, derived from it as the .270 was from the .30-06. They both have the advantage of fitting in short bolt-action... uhm, actions. The .308 is STILL a great military round, although its use these days is for speciality arms and machine guns. That it is still in the military armoury makes it attractive as a choice - if the SHTF it gives you more options. It won't stabilise a 220 grain bullet though, and it's marginal for 200 grains. The 7mm-08 is a bigger, better version of the .270 that will fit in a short rifle action. However, it's not as popular, better or not; there aren't as many loads available; and they sure don't go down to 100 grain bullets.

NOTE: you should consider NOT having both the .308 and the .270. Murphy's Law rules. The .270 is a longer case, the .308 is a fatter bullet. It IS possible to chamber a .308 in a .270 rifle, but firing it creates a very sad situation - sort of like setting off a grenade under your cheek.

There's some larger calibres that are viable choices if you're loading your own. Basically, the 35 Whelen (based on .30-06) or .358 Winchester (based on the .308). Commercial cartridges are pretty anaemic though. There's also the newer .338 Federale (necked up .308), but it really can't do anything the 30-06 can't, except work in a shorter action. The cartridges won't be found worldwide in every little bait and tackle shop, like the 30-06.

There's some other good but less popular choices shoe-horned in the .25-.30 gap. Basically, the best of them are the .260 and the 6.5mm/.284. The .260 is a very easy, low recoil larger calibre round - just a little better than the 6.5mm Swede, unless you're rolling your own for the Swede in a modern rifle, in which case the difference disappears. The 6.5mm/.284 has more punch, still with fairly low recoil, and has become the calibre of choice for 1,000 metre benchrest shooters, which says something about both power and accuracy.

And there's the 30-30. Shorter range, lower power, but still adequate to 200 metres, or with the new Hornady LEVERevolution soft-pointed rounds out to 300 metres. Or the one they use in the AK47/SKS - the 7.62x39mm. Similar ballistics to the 30-30. Lighter pointed bullet, lower energy but higher velocity initially, but holds its velocity better. Or the 45-70, an old black powder round: throws an enormous lump of lead. You could just about knock over a grizzly if you threw it by hand. Was a military round, and despite the fact it has a trajectory like a rainbow it can still shoot accurately out to a kilometre or more if you know the range exactly. Effective sensible range is about that of the 30-30 though. There are LEVERevolution rounds for it as well.

Or be guided by the firearm. Buy a bolt-action rifle previously used as a Main Battle Rifle (MBR). Russian (or Finnish if you can get them) 7.62x54R rifles; or any of the SMLE .303 British or Indian 7.62mm NATO rifles; 8mm (7.92mm) Mauser; or Swiss 7.5x55mm Schmidt-Rubin (straight-pull bolt action, easy to mount a scope sight).

And, for the short-range scenario described, you could look at shotgun slugs. Do a search on Maverick shotguns - Mossberg's low-price range. Or another search on Walmart firearms - you can get some extraordinary prices there if you accept limited choice, expertise and support. You can get some good deals on lower-recoil 20 gauge shotguns, as well as on Savage rifles, which are very good firearms anyway, and nearly unbeatable at the price.


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## hfwarner3

Yeah, but what about the .416 Barrett?


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## speshuled

there are so many good calibers out there . the best is what you are comfortable with . a freind of mine is a die hard .270 fan , but he goes after the long distance shots . myself i hunt in some pretty thick stuff sometimes you can't see a 100 yds. i like the lever actions by marlin .they're small , light and acurate . they make them in .357 mag , .41 mag , and .44 mag . i really like the .357 and have never lost one yet . i do reload my own loads .it's a hollow point 180 gr. semijacketed bullet . another buddy of mine has an automatic ruger that shoots the .44 mag . he claims is about as good a brush gun as you can get . you can buy the .44 right off the shelf at 240 gr.


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## MELOC

i have the 35 rem lever and i love it.


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## Lost River

You already stated that you are familiar with and like the 308. Personally I would stick with what you know.

A quality bolt action in 308 Win with a standard variable (such as a 3 x 9 or 2.5 x 10 power) would meet your needs not only for the area in which you hunt but would give you the flexibilty to hunt just about any medium to large game from coast to coast.

I have a wide variety of hunting and competition rifles but if I was looking for an all around rifle, without a doubt it would be a bolt action 308 Winchester with a mid range power factor scope. 

One suggestion though. Do not skimp on glass. Buy a quality optic such as a Leupold and never look back. You will not regret buying quality.

Personally, my "ultimate" rifle is a Tikka T3 stainless .308 Winchester, barrel trimmed back to 20"s and topped with a Nightforce 2.5x10 compact variable on it.

I currently have 4 Tikka T3s, all with Leupold scopes and have been very satisfied with them. They are a true bargain in todays rifle market.


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## shiningpath

I love reading the responses to these threads. The debate over "The best deer rifle" has been going on as long as there have been deer rifles.

A new hunter is usually very "into" gear; rifles, calibers. scopes, scents, camoflauge, tree stands, yada yada yada.

After a few years of pouring over every hunting magazine he can get his hands on and buying several different rifles and scopes, he becomes focused on how many deer he can legally shoot in a season.

This becomes tiring after a few seasons and he focuses on only killing really big trophy bucks. He will scout and locate the biggest deer on the property, and only hunt that deer until he gets him.

Towards the latter stages of a hunting career, the hunter begins to find enjoyment in just being in the woods or up at the camp --usually telling old stories to kids and younger hunters. The middle aged hunters listen in, and note how much bigger the deer or the bear gets as the years go by. 


This is like life, and it can't be avoided. You are a child, then an adolescent, then a latter-teen/young adult, marriage and a kid or two, middle-age . . .so on and so forth. You can't really jump ahead, and you wouldn't want to.

The truth is, your .308 is just fine. If you need a scope for your area, buy the best one you can afford with a big objective lense, mount it with quality steel rings threaded in w/ loctite. The scope is more important than the rifle as long as the rifle is of decent quality. If you can't afford a good one, go with iron sights and hunt places where the shot is less than 70 yards. 

In the lower 48, most of your shots will come near dusk or dawn, when the light is bad (thats why you need a scope w/ a big light gathering objective lens). Low light + iron sights = shorter ranges, much shorter. I'd rather have a $250 Savage and a $1500 Svarovski or Schmidt & Bender than spend the money the other way around. If you can't handle one of those, Nikon and Leupold make pretty good ones too at a more reasonable price. But then again, the ol' boy in them pictures didn't fair too poorly w/ that 30-30 lever gun did he? If your hunting woods almost anything will do. Big green fields at dusk _usually_ call for a scope. 

calibers - no smaller than a .243

I think the argument that smaller saves the meat is "splitting hairs". I would put that notion out of mind right now and never look back. Any hi-pow rifle is going to mess that deer up wherever you hit him. That sounds like figgerin' by someone who reads a lot of magazines, or anecdotal evidence from a couple of deers killed. I use the .300 Mag almost exclusively. If you can shoot a .308 then stick with it and put your money somewhere else.

If you are going to shoot 200yds or beyond (and are a good enough shot to do it) then a 30-30 isn't a good choice. It drops too much. Average scope will be at the extreme end of their adjustment for that shot. (It's beyond a point-blank range setting) The .308 will drop them way beyond the _average hunters_[ ability to estimate range, wind, and bullet drop. Of course, if your hunting in the woods then it's all academic huh?

Just my $.02


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## dogo

You are so right about the scope . I have a swarovski on a short action rifle and its just hard to beat. A friend told me about the grand- slam I could not believe how clear it was till I tried it. They have up graded the quality on this scope its just unbelievable . I'm not going to say its as good as the swarovski . But price wise most would give it more than a second look. It pulls in the light when we hunters need it the most. So those who don't know about the gran, check it out.


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## Tom Bombadil

I agree with this. A decent .308 with a good scope that is properly mounted will do whatever an experienced shooter needs it to do at the ranges most people hunt. For hunters I know, 200 yards is a long shot with most shots falling in the 50-100 yard range. At that range, it will be more about your ability to deliver the .308 round than about the weapon. 

Stick with .308 if that is what you are comfortable with, find an inexpensive rifle, mount a good scope, use good ammo, and start practicing. Inside 200 yards, the time you spend on the range making sure you can put that round close to where you want it will be the most valuable "spend" - practice time.


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