# Plant Based til End of Year!



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Except for fish oil capsules, I'm going vegetarian until the end of the year.

15+ years on low carb didn't work for me. Actually, I think it made me worse off. I lost 50 lbs the first few months and then stayed stuck there for the next 15 years. I experienced terrible cravings and couldn't lose more weight no matter how I tweaked my diet.

2 winters ago, I started experiencing blood pressure spikes that would start in late afternoon and BP would continue going up intil late evening. BP would peak around 220/125 with a heart rate of 135 (usually in 60's or 70's). After 2 plus years, I figured out that these spikes were being caused by saturated fat. By cutting way back on saturated fat the spikes were mostly under control. I still had them, but the peak and duration were much less than before.

So my diet evolved to less red meat and more starchy vegetables. That resulted in considerable weight loss and health improvements.

So last week, I thought why not try going all plant based for 2 months and see what happens. From what I have researched, the main problems with a vegetarian diet are B12, vitamin K2, and zinc, so I take supplements for these 3.

After about 5 days on diet, I have seen a significant drop in BP and my energy level seems a little bit higher. The main problem appears to be detox, as I have trouble sleeping and get a headache over night. I'm also feeling arthritis in my hips, but I expect that to improve. I'm fine during the day, but my hips hurt when trying to sleep. I added a couple of supplements to try to help with detox.

I'll post an update at end of November and another around Jan 1.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Alas, nobody's body works as well as it did when we were younger. My own body has trouble with carbs, and it sounds like your's has trouble with fat.

While you mentioned things like B12, which is good, don't forget the quality of the protein! No plant has a complete protein, so vegetarians generally combine incomplete proteins in such a way that the meal gives a complete protein, like combining beans with rice. Though, since you know about vitamin B12 I suspect you already knew that!


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Terri said:


> Alas, nobody's body works as well as it did when we were younger. My own body has trouble with carbs, and it sounds like your's has trouble with fat.
> 
> While you mentioned things like B12, which is good, don't forget the quality of the protein! No plant has a complete protein, so vegetarians generally combine incomplete proteins in such a way that the meal gives a complete protein, like combining beans with rice. Though, since you know about vitamin B12 I suspect you already knew that!


I don't know if protein is a big concern. In fact, I think too much protein may be the villain in many diets. It looks like the 2 best diets for weight loss are HF/LC and HC/LF. You never see a high protein diet being advocated, but that's what many people on lchf actually eat and I think that's why a hclf diet doesn't work for many people.

A study was done on who does worse at maintaining weight loss and it was people who ate a HFLC diet that wasn't ketogenic, in other words - too much protein and not enough fat. People who ate either a HCLF or ketogenic diet were much more likely to maintain at least part of their weight loss after returning to "normal" eating.

Back to protein:


> The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends that men and women obtain 5% of their calories as protein. This would mean 38 grams of protein for a man burning 3000 calories a day and 29 grams for a woman using 2300 calories a day. This quantity of protein is impossible to avoid when daily calorie needs are met by unrefined starches and vegetables. For example, rice alone would provide 71 grams of highly useable protein and white potatoes would provide 64 grams of protein. McDougal


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## Elffriend (Mar 2, 2003)

You might want to keep an eye on your blood sugar as well. After that many years of eating low carb, you might see blood sugar spikes with the increase in carbs.

Good luck!


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

You do not mention what sort of foods you are eating. I hope you are including whole grains, pulses, nuts, and seeds as they are very nutritionally dense.

When I became a vegetarian decades ago I really messed myself up because I did not pay attention to the nutrition. 

There are several types of vegetarians. Vegan - no animal products at all. Lacto Vegetarian - includes dairy products. Octo Vegetarian - includes eggs. Pesco Vegetarian - includes fish. Or you can be a Lacto-Octo-Pesco vegetarian which is basically what I am now since I have cancer and need to keep up my nutrition and immunity. It may be easier for you to condsider a slower introduction to vegetarianism. This worked better for all my friends and family who decided to switch.

I was very sick with anemia so changed to Octo Vegetarian and also bought a book that listed all the foods and their full nutritional breakdown. It is completely dog-eared now from over 35 years of use but still very helpful. Adding eggs to your diet will cover a lot of missing nutrition and I have to admit there are soooo many dishes that you can make with eggs that you have a lot more variety.

I love dates. Especially the Medajool dates from Arizona. They are full of calcium, magnesium, iron, phosphorous and potassium as well as vitamin A and the sugar is natural. One date is like eating a candy, When I get a headache I eat a date and this seems to prevent it from accelerating.

It is also very important to keep up your fluid levels. I have trouble drinking straight water. It gives me indigestion. Go figure. I add a quarter cup of fresh orange juice to a huge glass of water and have no trouble now. This was on the advice of my doctor and since the juice is rich in potassium for some reason (too complicated for my brain) this makes the fluid stay in your system longer thus keeping you hydrated longer and dramatically slowed the constant express train to the bathroom for me.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I am closest to HCLF (the Starch Solution), but I still take fish oil, use egg whites, and will probably use the ranch dressing and mayonnaise in the refrigerator. Moving to a 95+% vegetarian diet happened over the last year as I kept cutting back on saturated fats to try to cure my BP spikes and aortic stenosis. 

I try to limit fruit as I still need to lose a fair amount of weight. I bought an iPot and have been making some great soups and stews. Trying to eat a salad every day to get my greens in. Staying away from wheat. I have been drinking primarily water over the last year, so I'm good at staying hydrated.

My BP spikes and overall BP are worse in winter, so I am hoping stopping all meat for Nov and Dec will stop or at least mitigate my BP problems. After the first 10 days, my BP is acting perfectly. I should know by the end of the year if a primarily vegetarian diet worked because for the last 2 winters, I ended up in ER in December for stroke level BP spikes.

I have no interest in the politics of veganism and am only doing what my health dictates. Because of a few genetic SNPs I have, eating a LCHF diet actually damaged my health. I hope doctors soon wise up and recommend all their patients get a genetic screening done so they (doctor) can recommend the best diet for them (patient) instead of one diet fits all.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

I can understand your frustration. 

This is one case where it would be good to be able to consult a physician that is knowledgeable about the low carb way of eating. There is something going on to cause the things you've been dealing with and they should be able to give guidance with tests and bloodwork. 

If I knew someone, I'd suggest them but I don't. There are some out there, though. If it were me, I might start with looking up Dr. Nally in Surprise, AZ. If that's too far, maybe ask him if he knows someone closer to you. 

It would be so nice to figure out a root cause.

All the best to you!


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Bellyman said:


> It would be so nice to figure out a root cause.
> All the best to you!


I believe I know what it is.

I don't digest and metabolize saturated fat effectively (genetic SNPs). This results in undigested fats and bacteria leaking through the gut wall into the blood stream. Then the body attacks the indigested fat and bacteria as invaders which causes massive inflammation. I'm guessing the bp spike is to try to build up enough pressure to force the larger fat particles through the veins to the liver. I think the load is too great for the liver to keep up, so the spike lasts for several hours until the main liver detox cycle takes place.

The part I haven't been able to completely figure out is what organ kicks in in late afternoon that causes my BP to begin the spike. Why does it usually not occur until about 4 in the afternoon even if I ate a lot of saturated fat for breakfast? The liver starts its main detox cycle around 1 am which is when my spike usually start back down. So I know how the spike ends, but not exactly how it starts.

I have been cutting back and cutting back on saturated fat, but apparently I haven't consistently cut back enough to completely stop the spikes. So I figured the easiest way to cut out saturated fat is to not eat any animals.

ETA: This is the piece of info that finally convinced my doctor I was right. This is from the Plant Paradox.

"Because they have eliminated fats, low-fat diets do not allow LPSs, which have to travel on long-chain saturated fatty acids to sneak through the gut wall, where they would cause inflammation."​What this means is if you have a leaky gut, which many people do, bad stuff can ride on saturated fat through the gut wall. p 154-155

I have done everything I could to resolve leaky gut, if that was my problem, but it didn't seem to help. There seems to be something in some foods that will pry a hole in the gut wall, even if you don't have a leaky gut. So I think I have the genetic makeup that allows holes in the gut wall and then saturated fat takes undigested fat and bacteria through the holes.

So while limiting saturated fat to a very small amount may be a drastic measure, it was the only solution I could come up with. My doctor, 3 cardiologists, a kidney specialist, several ER doctors, and several clinic doctors came up with nothing except more and more drugs, which never did stop the spikes.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Solid shortening has saturated fat also, just so you know.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Terri said:


> Solid shortening has saturated fat also, just so you know.


I use olive oil and avocado oil, and I'm trying to use as little of them as possible. Even coconut oil seemed to be causing a problem, as some of it is long chain fatty acids.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Terri said:


> Solid shortening has saturated fat also, just so you know.


Its hydrogenated fat to make it more shelf stable, reduce spoilage, and thus increase profit. Hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated anything is not good. I simply could not believe it some years ago when I asked where the lard was as I couldnt find it in cooler. Guy pointed to some drygoods aisle and there it was, but it had been HYDROGENATED. Made a perfectly good product inedible. But sure their profits increased as no bacteria or bugs would touch it. I wouldnt either.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

So far, so bad!

I did great for the 1st 10 days or so. Lost 5 lbs. Then about the middle of the month, I couldn't eat enough to feel satisfied. I ate and ate all day and still was hungry. After several days of eating a lot of good stuff, I went for the bad stuff. By the time it was over, I had gained the 5 lbs back plus 7 more. I finally got back on track and ended up my first month at exactly the same weight I started.

I think the hunger may have been triggered by nonfat dairy. I bought some nonfat half and half for my coffee and lowfat sour cream for baked potato. That seemed to turn on a desire for all my bad foods - ice cream, doughnuts, etc. After a week of eating this junk, my bp went from below 120/80 up to 175/105.

When I got back on track, within 2 days BP was back under 120/80 and most of the weight came back off. Looks like I'm not going to make my year end weight goal.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Possibly you did not eat enough protein? If your diet is lacking you get cravings. Yes you can get craving anyways, but if your diet is not balanced the cravings are pretty much guaranteed.


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## Elffriend (Mar 2, 2003)

Are you getting enough fat in your diet? Increasing the fat level with things like nuts, avocados and olive oil will keep you feeling fuller longer.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Good luck!!


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

All vegetables was a bust for many reasons.

I developed a new diet that I started Jan 1. I will post some info about it later.


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## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

MoonRiver said:


> So far, so bad!
> 
> I did great for the 1st 10 days or so. Lost 5 lbs. Then about the middle of the month, I couldn't eat enough to feel satisfied. I ate and ate all day and still was hungry.  After several days of eating a lot of good stuff, I went for the bad stuff. By the time it was over, I had gained the 5 lbs back plus 7 more. I finally got back on track and ended up my first month at exactly the same weight I started.
> 
> ...


Problem with low fat and non fat products is that they replace the fat with sugar, which is one of the most addictive substances known to man.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Nsoitgoes said:


> Problem with low fat and non fat products is that they replace the fat with sugar, which is one of the most addictive substances known to man.


I rarely use "products" and when I do they are not full of sugar. My Fasting Blood Glucose is in the 70's.


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