# out of the fruit loop box...hey kentuckydreamer



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

out of the fruit loop box...hey kentuckydreamer ...fasten ya seatbelt...elk ramble ahead....lol

i gotta tell yall....if you are not a robotic type person and just ask questions "the way you are suppose to"..well you get weird looks..blank stairs and often gurgling sounds from deep inside person throat you are talking with as it seems they never encountered an outside the box question ever before in their life...especially if they are under 30ish it seems....lol


if i am working on any type of project its almost pointless to even converse with any hardware/lumber person .now i aint no rocket scientist i cant spell or form correct sentence structure stuff...it just flows from my brain pan and i type...lol....but good lord almighty do people look at ya funny if you ask a non mainstream question.

my recent encounter...well theres been plenty....but i was thinking of putting a fan inside a pipe and putting a timer on it with possible thermostat so when night air was coolest it can pull in cool air and reach desired temp and shut off automatically.....while being powered by solar i have.this way my root cellar can operate itself and i wont forget....well i might as well of asked for a ticket to saturn...lol....all i can get is ahhh...uhmmmm...hmmmm....they ask what are you doing and i tell them thats when the look comes...like i jumped from inside a box of fruit loops.

joe salatin here in va. says everything he wants to do is illegal...i understand that totally but on a different level...everything i wanna do is outside the fruit loop box of mainstream society.....i wanna do/know...

why arent house walls made of 2x12?..(this would make everything more efficient plus a wall icebox would fit perfect there and keep walls flush inside) 

why dont homes have built in iceboxes with drain pipes in bottom going to outside?

why are we not wiring homes for both solar and grid tied?

why are my rocks less desirable for foundation that a cinderblock...i can bust a cinderblock with a claw hammer but cant bust a rock with a 4# mini sledge....ohhhhyyyyyyy


more to come...maybe...lol


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

theres some out of the box folks on here

moonwolf grows his birds with huge success on cutting green fodder from his meadows and has done some very interesting gardens in past.

myheaven...good grief...that woman used a chipper/shredder thingy to make all types of feed for her livestock.recently she done 1500# of silage.she would be dangerous with a rusted out old international self propelled chopper and a few sacks of seed corn.....lol

tnandy....that dude is a rocket scientist in my book...yall seen his recent solar hot water greenhouse...ohyyyyy....the control area is way over my pea brain....the 12year old inside of me would just love to get there and start flippin levers and saying whats this do....lol...i know i could make him cuzz within an hour of my arrival....roflmao

theres way more but just naming a few

oh dont foreget forerunner...his extreme composting thread has to be some sorta forum record....plus it shows all these books and so called set rules dont apply all the time...like dont put meat in your compost piles...lol..are you serious this man puts whole cows inside piles and they get digested....roflmao...why hes got me buying mtn dew for my local tree trimmers on hot summer days to keep truckloads coming to my gardens.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

what am i rambling on about in a nut shell is....

outside the box thinking is where survival rubber meets the road....especially where funds might be low or not at all.

or a better saying is homesteading rubber meets the road.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

elk......we live outside the fruit loops, only do what the rice crispies tell us too and top it all off with some honey nut clusters :banana:


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

lindamarie said:


> elk......we live outside the fruit loops, only do what the rice crispies tell us too and top it all off with some honey nut clusters :banana:



i expect nothing less from a woman who wears combat boots with sundresses !!!!!.....:rock::gaptooth:


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Great ramble Elk!
But about that self-cooling root cellar..
totally do-able.

We lived in a very cold old house once and the woodstove was all the back and around a corner in the kitchen.
We (and by we I mean DH) took a 6 inch round, flexible duct, stuck an in-line fine into it and ran it down the hall.
We had hot air from the kitchen blowing anywhere we wanted it.

DH says that your best bet would be an exhaust fan that sucks the warmest air off of your ceiling to the outside.
Have a second pipe that runs halfway down your wall.
Let negative pressure bring your cold air in and down a bit further.

He says grab a thermostat off of a baseboard heater or something and set it on the lowest temperature. That will prevent it from coming on if the temperature is over X degrees.

Or you can just put the exhaust fan/in-line fan on a timer set for the earliest hours of the morning when your outside temperature is the coldest.

and yeah.. thinking outside the box /creativity is frowned upon.
It is beaten out of the young in school.
I watched it happen to DS before we pulled him out.

And good, old fashioned poverty stricken people can get VERY creative. We are VERY creative folks over here!


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

He also says to keep your moisture down, put the 'in' pipe about 3 or 4 ft off the ground so that you are pulling the mist/dew into your cellar.
And to bend it like a snorkel or like a sink drain trap with an outlet hose.
That way any moisture condensing will be caught in the trap and will trickle out of your little outlet hose.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

oh...in my searches i found a $7.88 timer controller with free shipping and a $5 fan to go on the hot air exhaust of cellar so the cool air flows in as hot air is pulled out....i even found a $15 temp controller by friend says he can wire it together to make what i want...this way it all works from my tiny bit of solar.


its funny the exact thing your hubs and you said to do was/is what i will be doing...must be looking from the same window!!!


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

heres another example....i see things in a different way ....lol

this is an sorghum boiling pot.....all my pea brain can say is boiling down sap is once a year....the rest of time i would so be up inside that thing soaking it like a bath tub....free hotwater soaks!!!!!!!!

and i promise i wont wash dirty socks in it either...roflmao


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

Ohh...I want one of those. I could scald a pig...make soap...render lard....in that thing.

I know what ya mean. I was just belly aching to DH the other day of why people can't think outside of the box..can't remember on what topic it was on. I wish I could find another person around here to discuss some of my hair brain ideas with. Most people look at me like I have grown a third head.


Where is the info about tnandy green house? I want to see.:grin:


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Ziptie said:


> Ohh...I want one of those. I could scald a pig...make soap...render lard....in that thing.
> 
> I know what ya mean. I was just belly aching to DH the other day of why people can't think outside of the box..can't remember on what topic it was on. I wish I could find another person around here to discuss some of my hair brain ideas with. Most people look at me like I have grown a third head.
> 
> ...


http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/co...lternative-energy/526801-solar-hot-water.html


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## KentuckyDreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

I laughed so hard....what a great way to start the day. But then, I got nostalgic ( I like the roller coaster in my mind ). My grandfather was always thinking like Elk. He had a huge closet in the kitchen ( most likely a pantry at one time). I do not care what you needed or what idea came to mind, he could go in that closet and figure out a way to make it work. The man melted stuff ( ?) and made his own sinkers before fishing. 

My grandfather did not finish high school, ran numbers and illegal card games. 

I may not see it in my generation, but mark my words, things are going to get ugly if we keep looking for store bought stuff to replace the store bought stuff someone told us we needed more than Elk's ideas to create a common sense environment.

And by the way....I am loving that idea of the built in ice box with a drain pipe.


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## Mrs Katzenchix (Aug 19, 2005)

Elkhound, I had to laugh at this. I've seen those blank confused looks before at the home improvement store when I ask for help on a project. I get the feeling that alot of people who work in these stores have never built a thing in their lives or, if they have, the idea that you could build something without a store-bought plan or materials list is beyond their comprehension. But I also think they don't know what to do with a woman who can use power tools. Then when I tell them I'm working on a new waterer/feeder system for my chickens, from their faces, you'd think I said I was developing a drive-thru restaurant for my herd of zebras and koala bears. 

It's frustrating at the time, but I do feel a little extra smug when the project turns out well without anyone's help.


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## KentuckyDreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

When I first came here the extreme composting thread got me hooked..I was not aware Forerunner had started it. Need to go back and review.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

oh and by the way....yall should see the search results i get from bing....ohhhhhhhyyyy

i can wreak a search engine!!


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

heres another one...at lowes...yea i wanna see the models of refrigerators that DONT auto defrost......clerk just blinks....dont you want an energy star...i say no...why should i pay money to cool something....then pay to heat it back up to keep ice crystals from forming.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I call this thinking sideways. Throws people off.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

theres gottabe a way to put spring water pipped through a miticool clay refrigerator to make it cool even better rather than just from evaporation process.kycountry can work on this with his springwater....if i have already got him off buying an old pop cooler off craiglist...roflmao


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## plowhand (Aug 14, 2005)

elkhound said:


> heres another example....i see things in a different way ....lol
> 
> this is an sorghum boiling pot.....all my pea brain can say is boiling down sap is once a year....the rest of time i would so be up inside that thing soaking it like a bath tub....free hotwater soaks!!!!!!!!
> 
> and i promise i wont wash dirty socks in it either...roflmao


You can buy these type a cauldron new......some place in SC...got a website............these were common around here...scald hogs, boil peanuts, wash water, even can in..........


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

elkhound said:


> heres another one...at lowes...yea i wanna see the models of refrigerators that DONT auto defrost......clerk just blinks....dont you want an energy star...i say no...why should i pay money to cool something....then pay to heat it back up to keep ice crystals from forming.


Oh Man. You should have seen my Mom and I try to figure out her new washing machine,saturday. The stupid thing does not fill all the way up. It has a brain that weighs the laundry and puts however much water it wants in-water saveing. We needed to wash a fluffy comforter,didn't weigh much. You know what the sales people say when asked how to get it fuller- get a bucket and fill it.:hair


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t3HMLEi7_E&list=UUSFfR8SBk8p4fOH4si8q_Rw[/ame]


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

7thswan said:


> Oh Man. You should have seen my Mom and I try to figure out her new washing machine,saturday. The stupid thing does not fill all the way up. It has a brain that weighs the laundry and puts however much water it wants in-water saveing. We needed to wash a fluffy comforter,didn't weigh much. You know what the sales people say when asked how to get it fuller- get a bucket and fill it.:hair


Yeah, when we had to replace ours last year We went to 4 different big box stores, out of those 4 stores there were only 3 machines that let you choose how much water to put in - we bought one. It still doesn't fill all the way, even on 'Super'


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

mnn2501 said:


> Yeah, when we had to replace ours last year We went to 4 different big box stores, out of those 4 stores there were only 3 machines that let you choose how much water to put in - we bought one. It still doesn't fill all the way, even on 'Super'


Yup, we're going to the Habitat for Humannity restore this week to look at "old" stuff


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## sdnapier (Aug 13, 2010)

elkhound said:


> why dont homes have built in iceboxes with drain pipes in bottom going to outside?


you cracked me up with that one. Why not indeed???


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

my dh was working on our shopping list this morning while I was driving......aluminum foil, aluminum tape, PVC couplings, butter, milk, propane, etc. We get the strangest looks from folks when they see our cart. Either because of what's in it or the quantity of stuff.

dh was fixing our sky light that sprung a leak. It leaked pretty bad and did a number on the floor of our cabin. While moving the ladder, a part of the floor broke. We were lucky, dh has such a collection of stuff around our place that we had everything we needed to fix the floor. 

considering how far out in the woods we live and the 2 1/2 hours to get to Lowe's I have learned never to complain about any of the stuff he keeps around.

the only way to truly be a self sufficient, non wealthy, homesteader is to think outside the fruit loops box. If we didn't work outside the box we would not be able to survive like we do on less than 900.00 a month.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

sdnapier said:


> you cracked me up with that one. Why not indeed???


 
as of last fall I am now the proud owner of an honest to goodness icebox!!! Hubby worked hard on it, we can access it from inside and also outside. The best part is its yogi proof. 

we now have the icebox, root cellar and spring house. No refrigerator, self defrosting or not for 15 years.


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## KentuckyDreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

lindamarie said:


> as of last fall I am now the proud owner of an honest to goodness icebox!!! Hubby worked hard on it, we can access it from inside and also outside. The best part is its yogi proof.
> 
> we now have the icebox, root cellar and spring house. No refrigerator, self defrosting or not for 15 years.


You are so blessed! I would love to see photos of your set up. May I ask your climate?


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

KentuckyDreamer said:


> You are so blessed! I would love to see photos of your set up. May I ask your climate?


 
thanks kd! I'm in west Virginia, so we get all four seasons. I would live to post pics but I have no idea how to do it. Our only internet us thru our phone which is smarter than me. 

we are off grid, do laundry by hand, no modern conveniences here. Not bad for a couple of Yankees raised in NYC and Brooklyn.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

yall can blame all this on kycountry he wanted to see my notes...i dont have any..its all trapped inside my brain pan and i pulled the folder and now its spewed onto here....lol



whatyda think about this....


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

and the 12inch thick walls.....the windows can be flush with outside so you can have that ledge to act sorta like a greenhouse for starting a few plants extra early....you can also on inside either have insulated curtains so it traps cool air inside betwixed window and curtain or have inside real working shutters that shut and has a drop down security bar.


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## happycat47111 (Nov 23, 2013)

Mrs Katzenchix said:


> Elkhound, I had to laugh at this. I've seen those blank confused looks before at the home improvement store when I ask for help on a project. I get the feeling that alot of people who work in these stores have never built a thing in their lives or, if they have, the idea that you could build something without a store-bought plan or materials list is beyond their comprehension. But I also think they don't know what to do with a woman who can use power tools. Then when I tell them I'm working on a new waterer/feeder system for my chickens, from their faces, you'd think I said I was developing a drive-thru restaurant for my herd of zebras and koala bears.
> 
> It's frustrating at the time, but I do feel a little extra smug when the project turns out well without anyone's help.


I am right there with you on the home improvement stores. If we have to go to Lowe's these days, I either find my sister (who works there and knows EVERYTHING) or find it myself. The "help" the little hipsters try to give me is beyond worthless. I will let them do the heavy lifting, though.  Hubby knows to stay out of my way. I'm the family handyman, and he's almost comfortable letting me do that. Knows I don't think he's less manly because he doesn't do the handyman stuff. He can do it, but he's the main breadwinner, so it's better if I can do it and not bother him with it. Plus we almost kill each other if we work on the same project. 

Good to know on the washing machines. And if you think they're bad? Try finding a car that you don't need a degree in rocket science to operate these days. I don't need Bluetooth, hands-free this, automatic that, temperature moderating AC, etc. I just need a car with a good radio/CD player, AC, and good gas mileage. I don't need a backup camera - it isn't an RV. Took us forever to find one even close to what I wanted. Ended up with a base-model Jetta. What did I discover? Danged horn won't blow unless it's running. Seriously. No keyhole on the outside of the car so you can open the door if your clicky doohickey dies. That's one reason I'm holding on to our 14 year old Hyundai Accent. She's nothing fancy but she runs. 

Any pointers on threads for how to live without refrigeration?


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

i wonder if this is a 12volt cooler.


http://learningtoliveaboard.com/?p=52


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Coleman used to make a 12 v cooler for plugging in in your car.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

http://www.marlinmag.com/engel-ice-box-conversion-kit












gasp at the price....lol

http://engel-usa.com/products/fridge-freezers/ice-box-conversion-models


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## Mrs Katzenchix (Aug 19, 2005)

happycat47111 said:


> .  Hubby knows to stay out of my way. I'm the family handyman, and he's almost comfortable letting me do that. Knows I don't think he's less manly because he doesn't do the handyman stuff. He can do it, but he's the main breadwinner, so it's better if I can do it and not bother him with it. Plus we almost kill each other if we work on the same project.


Your DH sounds exactly like mine. I do most of the handyman stuff except I let him deal with anything electrical. It's one thing I'm too chicken to attempt.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Mrs Katzenchix said:


> Your DH sounds exactly like mine. I do most of the handyman stuff except I let him deal with anything electrical. It's one thing I'm too chicken to attempt.


Same here. I have bad electrical issues, so I stay away from the stuff. But I'm actualy thinking of figureing out how to put a outside elec. box. I have an extension cord running thru the doorwall in my bedroom. I'll have to duct tape the gap shut for the winter if I wait on dh to put a box in. He works 7 days a week fall thru spring....


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

elkhound said:


> http://www.marlinmag.com/engel-ice-box-conversion-kit
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeowzer elk, here I was thinken of fixen up this old oak ice box I have:runforhills:


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

aint that awful price....i think low tech is best...back to springwater or ice frozen during winter.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

7thswan said:


> Coleman used to make a 12 v cooler for plugging in in your car.


They still do, or did a year ago. I have one.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Why can't my frig blow the hot air thru a pipe to the outside during the summer and then flip a baffle to keep the heat in the house during the winter. I did this with our laundry dryer. During winter, we keep the hot moist air blowing into the basement, flip a baffle and the heat goes outside in summer.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

this is one item i got tnandy told me about.


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002EAL58...73&adid=140XNJCQW8TD81WX5RFK&ref=as_li_ss_til


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

why arent house walls made of 2x12?..(this would make everything more efficient plus a wall icebox would fit perfect there and keep walls flush inside) 

Primarily - cost. 2 x 12s are pricey and with wood like that you are going to have more defects unless you get into the really pricey stuff. As for efficiency and effectiveness, stagger stud of 2 x 6" would create a better thermal break. In most climates, a straight 2 x 6 studding with fiberglass batt insulation is more than enough.

why dont homes have built in iceboxes with drain pipes in bottom going to outside?

Somehow, I think that in the south, iceboxes in walls might not work so well in the summer.  Any opening to the outside can be an invitation to insects and rodents.

why are we not wiring homes for both solar and grid tied?

Low voltage wiring paralleling 120 has some problems. They are not insurmountable, but not ideal either. The lower the voltage, the higher the current for the same wattage appliance. Current is what is more likely to create heat and the associated heat losses and fire hazards. Direct current (especially at higher voltages) is also more dangerous than alternating current, since it can cause muscles to lock on to a current source and not be able to release. Tesla and Edison fought that battle years ago.

why are my rocks less desirable for foundation that a cinderblock...i can bust a cinderblock with a claw hammer but cant bust a rock with a 4# mini sledge....ohhhhyyyyyyy

Your rocks can be more desirable - unless you are hauling them, in which case you can get four or more times the concrete blocks on your truck than you can rocks. The density that lends strength lends weight as well.

this is an sorghum boiling pot.....all my pea brain can say is boiling down sap is once a year....the rest of time i would so be up inside that thing soaking it like a bath tub....free hotwater soaks!!!!!!!!

Unless you want to roast your bum, you might want to keep it off the bottom of a pot with a fire under it.

Lateral thinking works, but you also have to examine the negatives and not just the positives.

Here's one for you to play around with.
Sewage pumps commonly allow large waste to be pumped effectively through a hose.

If you want to build a wall and you are near a source of water, you could take screening and landscape fabric to make forms for both sides of the fence, then put a sewage pump in a mud hole with two hoses as output. One hose would be used to spray the soil and make more mud, the other to transport the mud to the forms. In between the forms you would layer straw as it filled. The water would seep out through the screen and landscape cloth, and the mud would remain, making an adobe wall. The process would be slow, but the labor would be almost completely done by the pump, making it an easy do for someone without a lot of strength or cash for tools.

Refrigeration - modern refrigerators can use less than $50 worth of electricity per YEAR. At 12 cents per KWH that is a bit over 400 KWH or 1 KWH per day. In the heat load of a home, that is insignificant compared to a window that admits some sunlight.


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## happycat47111 (Nov 23, 2013)

Harry, we had to get a new fridge here a couple of months ago. I was shocked at how low the operational costs were for the model we got, which is huge. For me personally, though, I'm more interested in learning how to do without that fridge. At some point, that nice little plug in the wall that provides convenience will stop working, and I'd like to be prepared.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

DEKE01 said:


> Why can't my frig blow the hot air thru a pipe to the outside during the summer and then flip a baffle to keep the heat in the house during the winter. I did this with our laundry dryer. During winter, we keep the hot moist air blowing into the basement, flip a baffle and the heat goes outside in summer.


A baffle hua. Here I was just disconnecting the dryer hose and putting panty hose on the end to catch lint.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

i want a DIVORCE from my local power corp....!!!!!!!!!!!


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

elkhound said:


> i want a DIVORCE from my local power corp....!!!!!!!!!!!


Now, now. You agreed to "till death do us part" and the power company that can live forever is willing to stick to those terms.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

elkhound said:


> yall can blame all this on kycountry he wanted to see my notes...i dont have any..its all trapped inside my brain pan and i pulled the folder and now its spewed onto here....lol
> 
> 
> 
> whatyda think about this....


Sure, blame it on the new guy... :angel:

The local hardware store thinks I'm building a moonshine steal now...

roll of flashing, copper tubing, tube bender, 55 gallon barrel....

He did look at me funny when I ask about insulation, 12 volt fan, and spray foam though..


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Elk, I so love this thread. I think most of us here are outside the fruit loop box, which seems to befuddle so many still stuck on the inside.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

kycountry said:


> Sure, blame it on the new guy... :angel:
> 
> The local hardware store thinks I'm building a moonshine steal now...
> 
> ...



so its going to be a barrel refrigerator with coiled springwater with a 12volt fan blowing into it to get more cooling effect?

pictures as you build please.....:gaptooth:


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

happycat.....we haven't had any type of real refrigeration for 15 years. I'll be happy to share our experience if you want. Ice cream is definitely a seasonal food.

we bought one of those 12 volt coolers a few years ago. It was about 70.00, and there's really not much room in it. I think we've used it about 4 times in about 8 years.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

elkhound said:


> so its going to be a barrel refrigerator with coiled springwater with a 12volt fan blowing into it to get more cooling effect?
> 
> pictures as you build please.....:gaptooth:


No, the copper tubing and barrel is for another project you brought on.. a wood burning water heater.. 

what I have planed for the refer is a 3 step process... sponge type filter wicking water up into the air flow of the dc fan, a radiator circulating the refer water through to "cool" the water more then another radiator to condense the water back into the wicking pan again...


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

best thing about icecream and no fridge....you get to eat it all at once.....:angel:


milk+ flavoring+ churning in ice/salt mixer = 7000calories i need to burn off ...ah..tomorrow...lol


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

kycountry said:


> No, the copper tubing and barrel is for another project you brought on.. a wood burning water heater..
> 
> what I have planed for the refer is a 3 step process... sponge type filter wicking water up into the air flow of the dc fan, a radiator circulating the refer water through to "cool" the water more then another radiator to condense the water back into the wicking pan again...



oh the refer is going to be like a zeer pot thing then....or sorta like swamp cooler.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

heres what happens when a person gets out of the fruit loop box....pure happiness...unincorporated,unadulterated,unschooled,unlearned,unhinged passion for life,wood and simple things.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)




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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)




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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Elk, are the interior pics of the same house as in the first shot? It looks like something you'd find in the Olympics. Very cool house.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

Nice looking house.. but how does one justify putting a blue and white tile counter top in a house like that?? :shrug: Hand carved with a little wave action going down the front.. A little tooling for a "dish drainer" made in.. I could have some fun with the size of trees he had to work with..


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Elk, where did you find the pics from post 55? Awesome, I'd love to see a video if there is any.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

the interior pics and stump house dont go together.....i got excited and hittin buttons is all.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

manygoatsnmore said:


> Elk, are the interior pics of the same house as in the first shot? It looks like something you'd find in the Olympics. Very cool house.


you know i had a cabin up the road from you right?wanna see it?it had an air conditioned porch on it.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

partndn said:


> Elk, where did you find the pics from post 55? Awesome, I'd love to see a video if there is any.



theres a blank spot where a video mighta been once..but not sure..but you can see more here.


http://beforeitsnews.com/survival/2012/11/off-grid-part-2-of-6-going-on-a-tour-2450406.html


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Elk, those are marvelous cabins. The inside photos look so liveable.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

some of the best...if not the best times of my life were spent here in this cabin.

just a simple plywood cabin but it was great.i had elk come drink by the porch.



notice creek coming out from under porch in this picture.




the spring bubbled out from under this root wad and flowed under my porch and in afternoon coming in from work exhausted from the woods i would lay on porch and the cool air from creek was glorious.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

heres me in work cabin in alaska that was up in air.this cabin was 4 hours boat ride with twin 235h.p. outboards from nearest light pole.but it had running hot water....lol...springwater piped into a tank thingy hanging on outside of it.






cant remember if these were steps going up a section of bank to this cabin or a different one...memory ya know..but none the less it was a set of steps from a single log.building inspectors dream come true....roflmao


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

this was a super place but had coastal brown bear that would eat you alive iffinya not careful.its on mainland in front of B.C.it was a walltent but was super coasey.i built a sweatlodge and that thing rocked...we poured salt water on it for steam....it was fantastic for my sinusis...lol...yall see why i aint normal...i got brain rot from rain in PNW...lol.




inside bunks


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

I used to get the far looks from a parts man at the John Deer dealer when I ask for parts to fix a International. Finely he troughs me a book and I find the part that I need and goes and get it myself. When I go to the auto parts store the person theirs grumbles when I tell him it is for a home made device. He cant use the computer to look at the that home made device.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

elkhound said:


> i expect nothing less from a woman who wears combat boots with sundresses !!!!!.....:rock::gaptooth:


Now that's proper fashion.


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## jessimeredith (Sep 12, 2004)

7thswan said:


> Oh Man. You should have seen my Mom and I try to figure out her new washing machine,saturday. The stupid thing does not fill all the way up. It has a brain that weighs the laundry and puts however much water it wants in-water saveing. We needed to wash a fluffy comforter,didn't weigh much. You know what the sales people say when asked how to get it fuller- get a bucket and fill it.:hair


Mine does the same...we wash pert near everything on bulky or deep water wash, lol.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

heres another secret spot cabin....i spent lots and lots of time here...i only seen 3 people here in 34 years i been using it.its several miles in wilderness.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

I absolutely love this kitchen. The pump and oil lamp.. I'd love to have it.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

heres a reason to carry a handpump water filter....this spot can get sorta dry....look no water in drinking hole....but there water there you can hear it running but its several feet under giant boulders in rattler country and these things weight alot..to much to turn over....but i can getwater by fishing end of hose down through cracks....lifestraw wont work here in this case.






water under boulder pile...it make my hair stand out crawling around in that pile...lol


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

you suppost to eat those rattlers instead of running from them...


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Out of the fruitloop box? Have you ever tried to get INTO the box? There not much bigger than a DVD now a days.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

terri9630 said:


> Out of the fruitloop box? Have you ever tried to get INTO the box? There not much bigger than a DVD now a days.


I tried one time. The little elf policemen kept pulling me back out to get to the multicolored donuts.. last time I put the lucky charms beside the fruit loops for sure.... :gaptooth:


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

While we're thinking outside the box.... Anyone else thought of alternative fuel sources for wick candles (jar with a cotton wick), fire starter, and other uses??

I trap a lot and while I'm fleshing *****, the fat gets rendered or threw in the stove.. instant heat source, burns good in jar candles, but stinks to much for me to cook with it


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Just so you know combat boots are the best pair of foot wear. Good for weddings, parties, church, funerals, cow chasing, and a stroll in the woods. I only wear combat boots. Well an my muck boots.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

I absolutely love the house in post 55.


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## happycat47111 (Nov 23, 2013)

kycountry said:


> While we're thinking outside the box.... Anyone else thought of alternative fuel sources for wick candles (jar with a cotton wick), fire starter, and other uses??
> 
> I trap a lot and while I'm fleshing *****, the fat gets rendered or threw in the stove.. instant heat source, burns good in jar candles, but stinks to much for me to cook with it


I've heard dryer lint is great for fire starting, and if you add a wee bit of petroleum jelly, it's that much better. You can supposedly stuff empty toilet paper tubes with dryer lint that's been treated with pet. jelly, then use those as kindling/fire starter. We shall see. Just got our first woodstove tonight.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

I have been known to get all fancied up. I wear hose with my boots and in the winter I'll put on tights with them.

it doesn't matter the size of our fruit loops box, what matters is what we get out of it. I would much prefer to be loopy than a piece of shredded wheat.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

according to my mom, we not only live outside the box, we live like animals.

lets see......no mortgage, rent, water, sewer, light bill. Mountain fresh air, no need for ac. Homecooked meals, fresh bread, coffee always ready. Complete darkness at night for star gazing, lots of entertainment (bears, raccoons, wild turkeys, etc), fresh food, lots of skills (sawing, tree cutting, moving rocks, winching vehicles out of mud), free hot water for showers. Yup, living like animals. I guess I'll go outside and howl.


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2014)

happycat47111 said:


> I've heard dryer lint is great for fire starting, and if you add a wee bit of petroleum jelly, it's that much better. You can supposedly stuff empty toilet paper tubes with dryer lint that's been treated with pet. jelly, then use those as kindling/fire starter. We shall see. Just got our first woodstove tonight.



Synthetic content in dryer lint is icky, make sure it is cotton lint!


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2014)

7thswan said:


> Oh Man. You should have seen my Mom and I try to figure out her new washing machine,saturday. The stupid thing does not fill all the way up. It has a brain that weighs the laundry and puts however much water it wants in-water saveing. We needed to wash a fluffy comforter,didn't weigh much. You know what the sales people say when asked how to get it fuller- get a bucket and fill it.:hair



Or put a splitter on your faucet... I have that same stoopid clothes washer, I bet. 

The Super-Mega-Oversized Load is about 3" deep in water. :-/

And it will never believe you have a load of towels in there when it is on Auto, either. About 1" of water. 

Turn it on, wait seven minutes, go add another 6" of water to it!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

You can also use pressed board egg cartons and put cotton drier link in it, then melt some paraffin and pour over, let it soak in and set up. Then cut the carton apart for fire starting cubes. I read that somewhere, and have a few.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

We used to use dryer lint all the time, until we went to close line drying.. just another baby step towards self sufficient living.. Not to mention a nice savings on our electric bill.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Hey elk. I have bout 50 lbs seed corn and a plan. Oh I'm dangerous! I need to get my sorgrhum seed ordered. (Leaves with a sinister giggle)


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

I love fruit loops


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

KentuckyDreamer said:


> When I first came here the extreme composting thread got me hooked..I was not aware Forerunner had started it. Need to go back and review.


You haven't lived till you spend a weekend with Tim. You gotta make it for the homesteading weekend in June at mulleslane farm. Rock falls IL June 20ish.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

elkhound said:


> theres gottabe a way to put spring water pipped through a miticool clay refrigerator to make it cool even better rather than just from evaporation process.kycountry can work on this with his springwater....if i have already got him off buying an old pop cooler off craiglist...roflmao



Well ElkHound, I have a little something to share that isn't necessarily
Recycled or scrounged but cheap and effective.

It would work for something like the Above as well as your Root cellar.

I'm interested in it for a Incubator myself.

Its Arduino, a programmable micro-controller.

These things are neat and like I said relatively cheap.

You can attach sensors,trigger actuators,relays, slave one to another for more I/O ... big long list... You can even set them up to communicate with your PC. 

Lot of codes already written and freely available for different projects.

So heres my Idea, program one to monitor heat and humidity, then depending on condition found subroutines come into play, to hot turn on pump via 12v/120 relay (I'm thinking a boiler pump, they are pretty bullet proof and work at high temps, so a refrigerator would be Ideal environment for a long lived pump.they also use very little electricity)
At temp shut off pump, to humid trigger actuator to open vent and fan.
Not humid enough trigger a solenoid valve and the pump to run a mister.

Water from the spring would be delivered via pex like whats used on the outdoor boilers. pex insulated inside the corrugated drain pipe.

Which feeds into a copper pipe heat exchanger lining the sides and back of the box, exiting via a drain pipe to a cistern, with your over flow going to places you need it, water trough, dripper lines in the garden...

Your talking less then 30 bucks for the electronics, the insulated pex will be spendy but cheaper in the long run then running a frig.

The whole system could easily be run on a small solar setup or small generator.

As far as the box, when insulating it I would use thin foam sheets, cut spacer strips and put full sheet,spacers,full sheet. 

Dead air space is why insulation works well. so using spacers your increasing your R value well decreasing your cost. By using thin sheets you are increasing the separated dead air spaces...


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

Downhome, What you explained above seems like a viable option to a lot of homesteading needs. I could see where it could control solar heating, spring fed air conditioning, refrigeration, greenhouse operations, and a lot of other things that the imagination could create!!


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## KentuckyDreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

Wow, been gone one day and everyone has been having a real party here! I shared this on another thread but this might fit in here...thinking outside the box and all.

My middle son has now alienated half his family and all of his new wife's. They called Friday night just before 5:00 pm and asked if I was busy Monday. They had the day off work and thought they would get married. No paperwork, nothing. 

He buys his first ever tailored suit, she gets a nice dress and they are done. $50 for the license, $65 for a nearby court chapel, took my grandmother's engagement ring, and used the cell phone for photos. It was really very nice.

My nine year old had planted a spider plant when he was 3, we took off one of the "babies", planted it and told his brother to grow it and pass the babies on to their children. 

Out to dinner for eight people. Done and done. Oh, and $5 for wedding photo in the photo booth.


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## KentuckyDreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

lindamarie said:


> thanks kd! I'm in west Virginia, so we get all four seasons. I would live to post pics but I have no idea how to do it. Our only internet us thru our phone which is smarter than me.
> 
> we are off grid, do laundry by hand, no modern conveniences here. Not bad for a couple of Yankees raised in NYC and Brooklyn.


 
NYC and Brooklyn....no! I would love to hear your story. We are currently in Ohio but lived in Eastern Ky ( can you say dirt poor ). Since the area was dry the boys would use a row boat to cross the river to Kermit WVa for beer. When the Tug river swelled it seemed as if it were going to get to the back porch.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

kycountry said:


> Downhome, What you explained above seems like a viable option to a lot of homesteading needs. I could see where it could control solar heating, spring fed air conditioning, refrigeration, greenhouse operations, and a lot of other things that the imagination could create!!


I know its pretty interesting stuff.

I find the possibility's equally exciting!

One thing besides the Incubator control is a generator auto control box.

Sure you can buy them, but they are pricy.

For 12 bucks I can get a Arduino delivered to my door, another 20-30 bucks the rest of my components and I saved at least 100 bucks?

Just need a couple relays,and a few voltage sensor.
Power out trigger starter relay, start for 10 seconds,check for power from gen,if power stop start routine,check line every 15 mins, if powered, trigger shunt relay(grounding spark).

Super simple IMO.

You can take it a step farther and have routines for different days as well. run so long and off, still no power restart.

I ordered a propane Vacuum shutoff, I will be pulling the head of the generator engine and taking it to the machine shop and have them put a port in for the vacuum. 

Then I just need to fab the feed apparatus.

Plumb in the propane, and we will have automation on the power backup.


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## KentuckyDreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

elkhound said:


> yall can blame all this on kycountry he wanted to see my notes...i dont have any..its all trapped inside my brain pan and i pulled the folder and now its spewed onto here....lol
> 
> 
> 
> whatyda think about this....


I'm having this for sure....seems rather luxurious.


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## KentuckyDreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

The house in post 55 took my breath. The outside photo was as if someone read my mind. I would be sitting on that porch crocheting until the cows came home.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

elkhound said:


> you know i had a cabin up the road from you right?wanna see it?it had an air conditioned porch on it.


Yes, please! 



elkhound said:


> some of the best...if not the best times of my life were spent here in this cabin.
> 
> just a simple plywood cabin but it was great.i had elk come drink by the porch.
> 
> ...


Is this the one? I love the creek! And I really like those steps built out of a tree.

Oh, and I've just gotta say, better a little PNW brain rain rot than rattlers and other fun venomous pets, lol!


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

||Downhome|| said:


> I know its pretty interesting stuff.
> 
> I find the possibility's equally exciting!
> 
> ...


Downhome, If you don't mind me asking, what board are you getting for $12 and where at?? I got an idea to test this thing out..

The programming is simple enough.. It's a C+ based coding language with "libraries" that give you premade functions for most uses.. I do like the sd card storage "shields" and wifi.. I see a neat little project that we all could benefit from in the future


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Cool, hey if your good with programing perchance you could tweak/merge some of the functions from these Incubator projects I've been looking at. Or even put it together from scratch. I'm no programer but 'm sure I could muddle through it...

I have yet to order cheapest I could find is here... its free shipping. 

http://www.gearbest.com/development...currency=USD&gclid=CLyjkayc0sECFYSPMgodNWMAPQ

I want turner control, temp/humidity control, over temp control.
and a push button to Interact with the settings. 

I like what this guys cooking up.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A01wzcRRnSg[/ame]


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

||Downhome|| said:


> Cool, hey if your good with programing perchance you could tweak/merge some of the functions from these Incubator projects I've been looking at. Or even put it together from scratch. I'm no programer but 'm sure I could muddle through it...
> 
> I have yet to order cheapest I could find is here... its free shipping.
> 
> ...


All that seems simple.. I'd look into storing the values in an sd card or overwriting the code in the processor.. that way if it looses power it settings wouldn't be lost like the one in the video..

I'll look at the code if you want me too.. how do you expect to read the turner position?? through limit switches or through orientation sensors?


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Maybe a hall effect sensor? 

I was thinking just a manual override and a timed routine.

Not sure which would be easier to implement? 

I'm going to do some digging and see if I cant get the code links together.

The one the guys approached it backwards. He has it so when it get to temp it vents the excess heat... not really efficient. 

But would be a good basis for the over temp protection, which I find over heating more of a issue then maintaining temp.

heres the link 

http://www.instructables.com/id/The-Arduino-Chicken-Incubator/


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

||Downhome|| said:


> Maybe a hall effect sensor?
> 
> I was thinking just a manual override and a timed routine.
> 
> ...


Well, I have hijacking this thread but here goes 

If I was programming an incubator it would depend on what heat source I was using... 

For the heat regulation I would use something like this in my code:

if temp less than set temp{ keep heat on} 
elseif temp is 1/2 degree above set temp{ turn temp off}.. 
else {While temp above 1 degree temp setting{open vent}
else{close vent}
}
if temp above 2 degree set temp {sound buzzer}

This would run heat to the desired temp with heat on, shut it off and on to bounce between set temp and .5 degrees above it.. if it reaches 1 degree above it the vent would open while heat was off.. and close it as soon as it went below the 1 degree point.. if something happened it went above 2 degrees, it would sound a buzzer alarm..

For the turner, I'd run Ir sensors on the farthest left and right stroke of the turner arm.. once the beam is broken, it would stop the turner on that side, time the set time between turnings and start the motor until it broke the ir beam on the other side..

For the humidity, I'd fire a mister for 1 second, wait 10 seconds and read the humidity again.. if still too low. fire the mister again.. if it's above the setting.. keep reading until it needed to fire the mister again and repeat..


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

I'd use resistive wire for the heat source.

Less prone to failure.

You don't think the hall effect sensors would be a better option?
they are relativle cheap, can't be optically blocked.

Humidity for the most part would be just a tray but don't want it to get to high.

Perhaps the humidity pan can be separated ... 

or able to be closed off of the Incubator, by actuated vents. 

That way you don't have to vent out heat.

That could be a tricky balancing act...

Maybe just one actuated vent, in the Sportsman they just have a shelf at the top, the humidity pan sits in front then heat element,then fans.

I'm thinking rather then just the one shelf a second below it,creating a air chase

Sit up like the sportsman but between the Humidity pan and elements the actuated vent. when up directs the flow under through second shelf, when down allows flow over humidity pan.

For over temp I would think you would want a actuated vent as well.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

||Downhome|| said:


> I'd use resistive wire for the heat source.
> 
> Less prone to failure.
> 
> ...


You have to remember magnetic sensors can be effected by Ac and dc current but hall effect sensors could be used in the right place.. 

I have a sportsman incubator so yea, pan humidity is what it uses.. 

What I'm actually looking to do is a solar/dc/wood powered incubator so most of the heat elements just went out the window.. 

I ordered 2 boards, and $30 worth of sensors and parts.... and a 4 pack of dc relays.. I'll be looking through the computer junk drawer for some fans and dc motors and a camera lens.. lets see if this ******* can make something useful lol..


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