# The Tale of the Triple Cut-Out



## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

So I get a call a couple of weeks back from a beek. He wants to know if I'm interested in a cut-out down at the DOT building near me. This colony is 15' up, and he's had back surgery and doesn't want the job. 

I call the head honcho down there to see what is up. He talks like it's a swarm, so I load up a deep, bottom and top, just in case. 

Well, this is no swarm, lol. The foreman at the site tells me they've been there at least two years. I scope out the building and call the boss back. I tell him my rates and we set up a schedule for July 11. 

Monday, I load the truck and trailer with ladder, scaffolding, brand new bee vacuum, and tools. Hubby drives up to help me assemble the scaffold, and then it's just the girls and myself. That BushKillFarms vacuum is the best thing since sliced bread! Anyway, I cut them out of the wall, loaded 8 frames of brood, and another deep full of bees. It took me 4 1/2 hours and a lot of sweat, with the heat index being 104+. 

I'm waiting for Hubby to arrive and help me load the scaffold on the trailer. The shop foreman comes out and I'm telling him what I found ( a 1" gap all along the top of the wall ) and that he's going to have to run a board around the entire 3 sided building to bee-proof it. As I am pointing along the walls, we both see it together--TWO more colonies in the other wall! After 4 1/2 hours of hot, sweaty work, I really didn't want to see that. 

Long story short--I left my ladder and scaffold until they could move about 15tons of sand out from under the two colonies. I had to go get some more deeps yesterday. (wasn't planning on 3 new hives)

The good news is, the price for the 3 cut outs will cover the cost of the new vacuum, the Ultra-Breeze suit I splurged on, and the woodenware that I purchased. 

I sure hope it's not too hot on Monday. Rinse, lather, and repeat. 

The bees from the first colony are pretty peaceful, and although I didn't see the queen, I believe she's in there.


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## Kmac15 (May 19, 2007)

What is your survival rate for cut outs? And if I may so rude as to ask, what do you charge? Around here the beekeepers do cutouts for free and we have about a 25% survival rate.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

I charge $50 an hour. For the investment in equipment and time, that's a bargain. I know beeks who charge $75 and $100 an hour, with a two hour minimum. It took 1/2 a day to load the truck and trailer, and counting clean-up on the other end, that's a bargain. 

I believe I lost about 5% or less of the bees. That Bushkillfarms vacuum is great, plus I was careful not to have the suction too high. I used a 2 1/2" hose, also. 

This location is right between my house and the farm. I pass it every day. If it were a distance, I'd charge for fuel. With the vacuum, I would have been able to do everything in one pass if it weren't for the two surprise colonies. 

I'm moving the hives up to the farm. Tomorrow is the turn for this cut-out hive. 

Saw a beek who put scrap metal roofing down under his hives. I have lots of scraps right now. I put a piece under the hive that was moved today, and then mowed around it with no problem. I made sure the hive stand was level from side to side, and tilted just a little toward the entrance before I pulled the screen. It looks so nice and ship-shape!:thumb:


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

Congratulations!!! Althought it's a lot of work, from what I've read, it sounds like you've had fun and now have three more hives!! Sure hope you got the queens and that they stay where they've been put. Check in a couple of days to make sure there are new eggs being laid. That will tell you if you got the queen or not.


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## Farmerwilly2 (Oct 14, 2006)

I'm amazed that folks would pay $50-$75 an hour and consider it a bargain. Good for you to be sure, and more bees. I'm just not seeing the bargain to the person paying for the service. Seems to me most folks would hear the price and go buy a couple cans of Raid and call it well enough.


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## FrankRichards (Dec 9, 2004)

Kmac and Farmerwilly. So play hardball. The skill and equipment that Judy has are totally worth $50/hr. Compare to a lawyer or accountant.

Let folks try the can of Raid thing a few times (and probably buy the wrong kind of Raid).

I simply cannot imagine doing a cut out for the bees only, with a 25% survival rate. Counting fuel and travel time, that's 12 hours work and $20 out of pocket to net a single colony. At that rate you can flip burgers at McDonalds and buy a package with your paycheck. A McDonalds paycheck is my personal "Say No. Say H*ll No, if necessary, but leave now." trigger.


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

A couple of cans of raid seems cheap enough until the wax and honey begin flowing through and staining the walls. A couple of hundred dollars worth of carpentry/painting repairs later it doesn't seem like such a good decision.


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## Farmerwilly2 (Oct 14, 2006)

Not sure what playing hardball means. As far as what something is worth, it's worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. 

Thing is most folks aren't gonna think that far, they're gonna buy the spray and let it fly. Before I started keeping bees I can assure you that's what I'd do. I never knew any other way. That's what exterminators were for after all, and why would I pay them when I can do it myself.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

FrankRichards is right. The homeowner or business owner can kill the colony. The wax and honey remaining in the wall will start melting without bees to keep it ventilated. Also, the smell of the honey and wax will prove VERY attractive to new swarms. That's just the way it is.

The exterminators are not wanting to kill honeybees anymore, or at least that's what I'm hearing here. 

Two years ago, another beek did a trap-out in this same building. Since then, they've gained THREE colonies. I'm guessing they've decided to fix their problem once and for all. 

As of today, I have ANOTHER cut-out with a HT member. She has a colony in a log that we are going to put into a hive. I'll help her with the cut-out, and she'll help me process some Cornish Cross I haven't had time to do. Win/win.


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## Farmerwilly2 (Oct 14, 2006)

Excellent. I like wins. 

As for the leaving the mess in the wall I understand and agree, if it was my place I'd be getting them out. I was speaking from the folks I know, from family to friends co-workers to casual acquaintances and I don't see any of them willing to call the exterminator to clear out bees, much less a beekeeper to do it. 

As I said, sounds like a good deal for you. As a side question, since you do these cutouts, do you usually get out clean honey?? Not to get too graphic but I'm picturing some places I might take it out just to feed back to the hives or melt down. My phobias would be insulation, either fiberglass or rock wool and waste from mice to roaches. I don't think I could use it without creeping myself out.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Farmerwilly2 said:


> Excellent. I like wins.
> 
> As for the leaving the mess in the wall I understand and agree, if it was my place I'd be getting them out. I was speaking from the folks I know, from family to friends co-workers to casual acquaintances and I don't see any of them willing to call the exterminator to clear out bees, much less a beekeeper to do it.
> 
> As I said, sounds like a good deal for you. As a side question, since you do these cutouts, do you usually get out clean honey?? Not to get too graphic but I'm picturing some places I might take it out just to feed back to the hives or melt down. My phobias would be insulation, either fiberglass or rock wool and waste from mice to roaches. I don't think I could use it without creeping myself out.


EXACTLY, Willy! When I go to a cut-out, people invariably envision clean, sweet honey like you'd find in a supermarket. Their eyes gleam with the thought of all that yellow gold, lol. The reality is more in line with your idea. Now, since there was no insulation in this wall, this comb came out pretty clean. BUT, the wall of 2x6s was covered in creosote, so guess what the honey would taste like....

Most of this cut-out was un-capped honey, so it would ferment if I put it in a jar. One of the employees (the one asking after the honey) thought that sounded like MEAD. LOLOL! I fed this back to the bees. They need to recover from the no. 10 earthquake they've gone through, and get ready for winter. It takes 9 lbs. of honey to build 1 lb of wax, and they've got another deep super to fill up before bad weather.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

i hope they get it made Judy. how late in the year can you do this and get them to survive the winter. and how late in the year have you gotten bees for people? is there a point where you try to get the people to wait until spring? just curious


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

It depends on your area. In NW Indiana, I don't like to make a cut-out much past August 1, and I'll be checking on them to make sure they fill that 2nd deep super. I may start feeding these mid-August until Oct, just depending on how the flow is and how fast they build up. 

I've got a hive of MN Hygenics at the farm right now that has filled the 1st super, despite starting on foundation and my stealing 2 frames for another hive. I'll give them another deep tomorrow. With the amount of bees there, I'm betting they fill it themselves. 

After August, I try to get people to wait until next year. I explain that if I take them that late in the summer, the bees will die out during the winter. 

In fact, I've got a trap-out in a tree going right now into a nuc. I'll be checking on that mid-August. If it hasn't worked, I'll pull it off til Spring.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Did the second cut-out today. My little sister came up so she could watch. I put her in another Ultra-Breeze suit and once she gained confidence in the safety of the suit, she was pretty interested in the bees. 

I would say that this colony was 3 years old. The brood comb was black, but still being used. There was lots of granulated, capped honey. I harvested two 5 gallon buckets of honey from this one, and 8 frames of brood. 

On the last comb in the hive, I spotted the queen. YAY! I got to show her to my sister, AND use my fancy-dancy new queen catcher. With a helper, I was able to get this cut-out done in 3 1/2 hours. (plus, the scaffold was already there. 

Sis had to leave, so I carried the vacuum full of bees and the deep super full of brood up to the farm and set up the stand. I released the queen into the brood chamber and pulled the divider screen, combining the two supers. In a day or two, I will pull the bottom and divider screen frame, put them on a SBB, and put the brood chamber on the bottom of the hive. Then, I'll leave these poor girls to re-build their home. I won't bother the brood chamber; just keep an eye on the top super to see how they are set for stores. I'll probably start feeding them after the 2 buckets of honey are consumed. 

One more colony to do Wednesday or Thursday, and then for the easy one in the log. (on the ground) The heat advisory is on through Saturday--wouldn't you know?!


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

Judy in IN said:


> One more colony to do Wednesday or Thursday, and then for the easy one in the log. (on the ground) The heat advisory is on through Saturday--wouldn't you know?!


I was out pulling honey Sunday & Monday and it was "only" about 90 degrees and very humid. Even in my UltraBreeze I was sweating so much I was having difficulty seeing. By the end of the week it'll be even hotter. Good luck with the cut-outs. Stay hydrated!


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Well, now I have a dilemma...I'm going to do the last cut-out on Monday. (just too hot right now) It's supposed to be a balmy 85 on Monday. This will be the last (and biggest) colony. The business closes at 5 p.m. and they lock the gates. I don't have access past 5 o'clock to close up a bait hive if I brought one, but I'd like to get all of the foragers. I've been relying on them shifting over to the other colonies so far, and that has worked well. 

Any thoughts?


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

Judy in IN said:


> The business closes at 5 p.m. and they lock the gates. I don't have access past 5 o'clock to close up a bait hive if I brought one, but I'd like to get all of the foragers.


What time do they open in the mornings? Couldn't you leave the bait hive overnight for the foragers, and retrieve it first thing in the morning?


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

I doubt they open before 8 a.m., which means the workers will already be out, but I will check. That's a pretty good idea.


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