# How close can you breed?



## goatkids (Jun 14, 2008)

I have a question- I've had goats before (nubians and alpines), and now I am getting Nigerian Dwarfs (OH I am SOOO excited!)- anyways, my question is,
How closely related, can you breed goats? Like, grandkids- great grandkids, or do you totally have to keep separate lines?
I know this is probably a silly question, but with our nubians, we didn't have them long enough with a buck, to have more than one kidding- and we only had does with our alpines, so I have no idea! Any info, thanks!


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

The rule is, you can breed father to daughter and son to mother. No cousins, siblings, half siblings etc is recommended. Distant cousins can be OK.

However, with any inbreeding, you need to know what you're doing. You should be trying to produce the highest quality animals no matter WHAT you're raising for - it's just good animal husbandry. Inbreeding can give you the best animal in your herd - or it can exemplify the faults of both parents and give you exactly what you DON'T want. Don't be afraid to cull away from what you don't want through butchering. 

To avoid inbreeding, bring in new blood by using AI, leasing a buck, taking a few does while in heat to be serviced, trading bucks, or by purchasing new bucks/does.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

No cousins? Why? That seems strange, since the inbreeding percentage for a cousin would be MUCH less than for father/daughter etc.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I've always heard not to breed cousins, so I thought I'd pass that on. I've never had the opportunity though I've always thought it weird that you shouldn't, too. I think if I needed to I wouldn't hesitate, if the cousins complemented each other. Distant cousins (2nd or further) I wouldn't hesitate to breed either. But that's just me and I would really investigate them to make sure the would produce good kids from the breeding.


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## Naturaldane (Apr 24, 2008)

I thought this to be of some help. Now, the wording is about dogs, but it applies to all creatures.

BACK CROSSING;
another type of inbreeding which we equate, to the greatest extent, to the stud dog. In back crossing the breeder selects a stud with as few imperfections as possible and of magnificent type, who potently produces excellent progeny.
Basically what the breeder hopes to accomplish is to infuse the entire breeding line with the genetic qualities of the excellent stud. a good ***** who will correct any of the slight failings the male may have , is bred to him and from the ensuing litter the best FEMALE puppy that in appearance is MOST like the sire is selected , kept & and the proper time bred back to the sire . it is generally advised to keep 2 females in case something drastic occurs that eliminated one of the bitches. the second choice ***** then can be used - again after the ***** is whelped the best ***** puppy that mirrors the sires excellence is saved and bred back to her sire when she reaches maturity, this form of incest is continued again & again until a time arrives when the alpha male can no longer reproduce or until physical or psychological debilities become apparent (IF they do) that make it inexpedient to con tine the experiment.
If seems to have acquired much of his virtues from HIS dam, then the initial breeding should be to HER, if the stud dogs sire seems to have lent his most of his fine traits , then the first breeding should be , if possible,and if she fits the breeders needs - to the SISTER of the males SIRE. BY back crossing the genetic worth is consolidated and the germplasm fashioned to a wanted mold. This conformation that you have wright by back crossing will continue to prevail for several generations after the alpha male can no longer produce, if breeding continues within the confines of the line bred family.


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## Naturaldane (Apr 24, 2008)

OUT CROSSING;

This breeding technique can be considered a counter measure to any kind of line breeding or inbreeding - out cross means that for at LEAST 5 or 6 generations there has been no common ancestry, that no individual app rears more than once in a pedigree.



The only control a breeder can have over a the prodengy of an out cross breeding is if one of the mated pair IS line bred OR inbred, the other partner should be dominant in any needed type or temperament compeations. out cross breeding's generally brings greater vigor and new and needed characteristics to a strain, and usually a lack of prepotency and uniformity in the progeny. It`will help cover up recesses that may be detrimental to the stockthestatement regarding prepotency and uniformity in the progeny doesn't not always follow.

animals of out cross breeding frequently ( not always) indicate a LOWER breeding worth because favorable genetic factors have not been clustered and inheritable material has been dispersed.

perhaps the most important improvement that an out cross breeding can bring to the kennel is its ability to return vitality virility and vigor BACK to a line that may have been weakened due to close breeding's .
Abnormalities congenital ills and abnormalities that have been brought to the surface by line breeding or inbreeding can be arrested corrected or terminated .








BACK MASSING

the aggregation of genetic factors of a specific dog, his name appearing numerous times in the extended generations of a pedigree. the first 3 generations of a pedigree are generally the most important, influencing the progeny to a greater extent than later generations. But when those initial generations indicate no close breeding, allowing various genetic factors to consolidate and affect the young, then the influence of the back massed animal will be felt.
back massing can bring merit as well as flaws to a bloodline, but we can only be cognizant of the cause if we search further back in the animals history.

** also used in breeding is 

HETEROSIS ( utilized MOSTLY in agricutual fields and in experimental work with fowl & swine.
it is considered it could become a genetic tool to use in Dog breeding if it has a meritorious application.


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## goatkids (Jun 14, 2008)

Thanks for the info!


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Thanks for that, I am a back masser  Always thought I was a linebreeder, but nope back masser  Vicki


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## Naturaldane (Apr 24, 2008)

glad it helped, I have surrendered raising dogs and moved to goats but some things are the same. 
I cant remeber who wrote that but its helped allot of people including myself understand the basics. I have never line bred or anything close, and used to be against the breed them tight breed them right logo, but now seeing how important it is for quality control we will see how it goes with the goats, got allot of time to learn.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

I bred Shih-tzu's down to imperial size, so we did alot of linebreeding...going back to the well again and again to condense the gene pool that gave the lack of size to begin with. Before they were bred to Picks to make them larger.

Where is what you wrote down originally printed? Vicki


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## Naturaldane (Apr 24, 2008)

My old mentor wrote it out, something like Mindella I think was the name, cant remeber, course the bottle of benadril I had to take for an allergic reaction isnt helping.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Thanks I had just never seen it put like that. Vicki


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