# Looking for a guard donkey



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

For the first time since I've been in KY I heard coyotes. People have been telling me they are around, but I've not seen any and have not heard any and I was raised listening to them. But several nights ago, I stepped outside because the outside dogs were raising a fuss and could hear what was obviously a pack of coyotes yipping up on the hill, either in our upper pastures or on top of the hill above the pastures.

I've called the local coyote hunter, who may or may not come by and look at the layout of the pastures.

I'm looking at the biggest/brightest spotlight I can find for the pickup, non-electric floodlights for the upper barn where we're going to have the mares and foals this spring ... and have two boxes of .243s now.

And I'm putting the word out I'm in the market for a guard donkey, standard size jenny, preferably something that has been out with horses.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Might check with BLM to see if any of their jennies are available. Some friends with sheep got a couple (12-13H) jennies from them who were very protective of the flock. I know they (BLM) make swing thru the East with adoptable animals at various times in early Spring and mid-summer. Could be worth checking out, the BLM is sure to have some kind of Internet site to contact them thru.

And just so you don't spend all your money, the amount of light outside is not going to deter the coyotes. We have had several coyote attacks on farms, during daylight hours. The stories are confusing as to detail printed in the papers, with TV reports only slightly less. DNR was NOT informed in time to inspect dead horse wounds before burial. Questions on second horse injuries being fence or bites. Both from the same farm, 2 separate incidents days apart, and now have been moved to another farm. Local farm owners saying the coyotes are seen in multiples, are MUCH bigger than the small 30-40 pound animals DNR says the coyotes really are and that they don't run in packs. Well that was until a dairy farmer shot one heading for his barnyard, which was a fairly large 50-60 pounds, coyote that was shown as he held it up for photographing. LARGE farmer, so carcass was not little beside him.

Not all donkeys are protective, in attacking canines. They might fight for themselves, not go out to meet the vermin. I would go for more than one, so that one can't be surrounded and damaged. With two, they will work together covering each other.

Here is the link to news article on dairy farmer with the photo, which mentions the horse attacks.

http://wn.ktvu.com/story/28022903/dairy-farmer-hunts-large-coyote-in-lapeer-co


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

You need several to protect each other against coyotes. I tend to disbelieve they took a horse down though, unless it was a very small, frail horse. Even then I think a coyote pack would have to be very large to bring it down. None of my horses except my youngest filly could easy fall prey to coyotes, my horses would stomp them. They dislike dogs.

I have 6 donkeys. One is a large standard, but my others are hip high standards and even in a little group they are easily separated and singled out by my two ranch dogs. Coyotes in a pack could easily pull one down if they got it away from the others. If you plan on getting anything, get mules, they are large enough and ornery enough to do the job. You would want 2-3, and get bigger ones if you can find them. At least 12-13-14 hands.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

We have a lot of coyotes around here but have never had a problem with them attacking the horses. We did keep the mares close to or in the barn at night when they were close to foaling though. I was always afraid the smell of blood and afterbirth might be a little too much temptation for them.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

We&#8217;ve had coyotes for some time. They never were seen. Wen they bred with dogs we started having problems. Donkeys will deter canids. A coyote or coy dog is looking for lunch, not to prove he is a better fighter than a donkey. A donkey makes a very loud display, and I have read that the big ears are more menacing than small ears. We had two and they did a good job of guarding our sheep. You need two. They will work together. They must be bonded to sheep when they are young.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Maura said:


> Weâve had coyotes for some time. They never were seen. Wen they bred with dogs we started having problems. Donkeys will deter canids. A coyote or coy dog is looking for lunch, not to prove he is a better fighter than a donkey. A donkey makes a very loud display, and I have read that the big ears are more menacing than small ears. We had two and they did a good job of guarding our sheep. You need two. They will work together. They must be bonded to sheep when they are young.


My large john will definitely chase a dog off, but my little guys are small enough that they don't frighten the coyotes around here. But two large donkeys probably would. I would get a Jenny and John, that would be a good coyote deterrent! I agree, they make very loud noise when they want, especially when sirens go by, but I have never heard them go off when the coyotes are running, and the coyotes here are thick and are out every night. They made a run at my baby jack donkey for two solid weeks, almost every night, but I kept my donkeys pastured with my horses and the coyotes couldn't get near it. My horses will kill coyotes, they hate them. That's why I find it hard to believe that just a pack of coyotes killed a horse unless it was already down from age or illness and couldn't get up.


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## Akita (Nov 14, 2014)

There's a thread on the Outdoors forum about the coyotes killing the horse, but I had to quit reading it because of the person that thinks it's funny a horse was killed ...
it was my understanding that the yotes mauled it so badly that it had to be put down.
The coyotes we have here are large ones. I fear that they might run one of the horses into the fence and get them tangled up where they can't get away. One of my old geldings is mostly deaf and sleeps like a log, sometimes I have to go check on him to make sure he's still breathing. if he was already down, they could finish him off easily before he could get up.
When my filly was born last year, dh and I stayed outside all night with her. We've 
always had our mares foal outside, I just think it's healthier. The coyotes have never been this bad though. We left the truck running about 4 hours to use the headlights.
Nothing deters the ones we have here. They will sit right at the edge of the brush and howl at me in the daylight, which infuriates me.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

goodhors said:


> Might check with BLM to see if any of their jennies are available.
> 
> And just so you don't spend all your money, the amount of light outside is not going to deter the coyotes.


Hadn't thought about checking with BLM as they are generally so far away from us, but might work.

Actually, the outside lights are for me ... to see at night to shoot by if necessary. I'm more concerned during the actual foaling season and although I prefer the mares to foal out on pasture, it isn't the best option here in KY because of the fescue problems so mine foal in shelters near the house and go out after the foals are several days old.

I've not had a problem with coyotes before, although if they are here now I'm sure they have been around before. I do suspect, in an area that is this heavily populated, that many of the coyotes may actually be coyote x dog hybrids which may be likely to be both larger and less wary of people.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

I think it was bergere who, while living in Oregon, had to deal with a very bold and aggressive coydog population.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I've never had any problems with coyotes but coydogs is a whole different thing. They are bold and aggressive and don't respect human habitation they way coyotes do. 

Because I live fairly close to a rez, coydogs present a significant challenge during foaling so I found the problem was best solved by calving and foaling at the same time and pasturing my mares with my most maternal longhorn cows.


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## birchtreefarm (Jul 22, 2007)

Coyotes in the East are mostly coywolves, a hybrid between the smaller true coyote, and eastern wolves. That's why they are larger than people expect coyotes to be.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

As much as I love mules I don't think I'd let them out with newborn foals. I've heard they'll attack young foals or try to steal them. That said I've had molly mules out with mares and month old foals with no problem, they actually were good babysitters. We currently have five mules out with a geriatric herd of horses. There will ALWAYS be at least one that stands separate from the herd watching, it does not miss anything that is moving. They seem to take turns as there will be a different one napping at times during the day. Good luck with foaling season. I truly miss raising foals but the exploding coyote-whatever population would make me a basket case.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

mulemom said:


> As much as I love mules I don't think I'd let them out with newborn foals. I've heard they'll attack young foals or try to steal them.


 I have heard this also, and from a number of folks, not just one. People who kept and used mules for farm work. Mules often like to pick on smaller animals (calves, sheep, foals as well as dogs), will harass them repeatedly, which can make for damaged babies and mares trying to protect those babies. I know our mule, a molly, didn't like our sheep and chased them if she could. Sheep had a small gate to go out in the pasture if they wanted or not, could escape the mule. But she got more SERIOUS when she went after those sheep, striking in the front at a gallop. The sheep escaped by two sheep strides thru the gate and mule threw a tantrum! When I saw that, I closed the sheep gate and didn't allow them out with her. 

With the above in my head, we sold the molly because our child was just starting to come out to the barn to "help" with chores, probably about 3yrs old. Not willing to take ANY chance he might get into the pasture with the mule.

I would NOT recommend a mule as a guardian with your mares and foals, even weaned young horses. Why take the chance of hurting pricy horses?

I would NOT recommend using a Jack or John donkey either. Jacks will have a strong breeding urge, might cover your mares for you! They also fight like demons, and might kill your stallions if they got together. Trust me, I would take odds on a 13-14H donkey beating ANY stallion in a fight, since the donkey just won't quit. He only lets go to get a BETTER grip! And they bite like Alligators, ripping and tearing the other animal!!

Johns are the gelded jacks for both mules and donkeys, if you didn't know that. Still seem to be strong minded, not as nice to baby animals or a flock they should be protecting. Not all donkeys are good protectors! Check with the folks on the Sheep forums! Often the John donkey just will kill sheep if they are bothering him or as entertainment it seems.

The donkey Jennies seem to score the best as herd/flock protectors, without as much to the bad side. Again, get them as a pair, not a single, so they can cover for the other one. Keep them trim, not allowing them to be fat or they WILL founder. Donkey is not made to survive on rich pasture or grain, just browse and having to cover lots of ground to get his daily food.

My friends with the sheep got their jennies from a BLM stop over and sale. They were older jennies, not foals or young stock. Appeared well handled, they settled in easily with the sheep and were easy to manage on the farm for the people. Not horse folks or skilled with horses, but they got along OK with the jennies over several years that I knew they had the sheep. They never lost a lamb or sheep when they had the jennies. Didn't find any dead dogs in the fields, but maybe just being there kept the dogs away. Jennies did run and get around quickly!

So again, I wouldn't recommend any male protective animals. More likely to have issues with him than using jennies. I would NOT recommend a mule, they are NOT like donkeys in their thinking or reactions. Mules take "different" handling than horses, to have them be their best. We never really did much with our molly mule, "failure to communicate" was a big issue there. She was a foal when purchased, led, tied, got feet trimmed, clipped as needed, easy to groom when sold 3yrs later. Too young to ride yet as late 2yr old. Wouldn't lunge, couldn't pony her off another horse, just planted her feet. You could drag her but she would NOT take one step forward! We obviously were not Mule Folk!! The man who got her LOVED her, thought she was wonderful, so it was a good place for her. He WAS a Mule Man, they got on well.

Just more for you to think on.


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## SmokeEater2 (Jan 11, 2010)

Wish you were closer SFM, I'd give you 3 donkeys and throw in a bale of hay to boot.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

SmokeEater2 said:


> Wish you were closer SFM, I'd give you 3 donkeys and throw in a bale of hay to boot.



:happy2: If you were closer, I'd take them!


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

We have a lot of coyotes here in NY and I've never been concerned for my horses or ponies. They howl in packs of 20+ each night, and my horses are not bothered in the slightest, so I don't believe they consider them any danger whatsoever.

A foaling mare...sure, I'd keep her close to the barn, but once the babies are up and running I would not be worried. I've never seen anything scarier than my mare when the gate got closed between her and her newborn filly (this was before I bought her). I can't imagine what she'd do to a coyote that got too close to her baby.  

[This was one of those unforgettable moments where you realize horses only let us ride them because they want to...that was 1000lbs of pure human-killing fury for a couple of seconds....yowza.]


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

offthegrid said:


> We have a lot of coyotes here in NY and I've never been concerned for my horses or ponies. They howl in packs of 20+ each night, and my horses are not bothered in the slightest, so I don't believe they consider them any danger whatsoever.
> 
> A foaling mare...sure, I'd keep her close to the barn, but once the babies are up and running I would not be worried. I've never seen anything scarier than my mare when the gate got closed between her and her newborn filly (this was before I bought her). I can't imagine what she'd do to a coyote that got too close to her baby.
> 
> [This was one of those unforgettable moments where you realize horses only let us ride them because they want to...that was 1000lbs of pure human-killing fury for a couple of seconds....yowza.]


Ha, yep, I've seen my big QH mare go schizo when she and her filly were accidentally separated for a minute. Yikes and Holy Cow!! Thats a scary sight to see!


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

We never had a molly mule make any attempt to hurt a foal-though we never put them together until the foals were at least a month old. The mules have their own pecking order but all the mules are bullied by even the lowest horse in the horse pecking order. The only thing the mules won't run out of the pasture is geese.:hammer:


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Had packs of very aggressive Coyotes in NW Oregon, they Did and would pull down foals, attack a mother cow giving birth and kill the calf before it was all the way out of its mother. 
They would kills mini's, goats, sheep... etc.. etc.. It was a known problem in that area of Oregon.

If a Mammoth Jenny was raised with horses and their foals she should be ok, with future foals.

The coyotes on this side of the country, don't pack up like the ones in Oregon... and they are a lot more shy and sneaky. Lots of foxes in this area too.


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

You might want to try a llama instead of a donkey.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Single llamas don't do well, because they are herd animals. They like their OWN kind, not horses or other species so much. I don't know any happy llamas kept alone, and the horses don't seem to care for them either. Llamas will work with sheep, goats, though again the females do better guardians than the males or geldings. Some llamas (males and geldings I heard of) HATE sheep and goats, will kill them, so not all llamas are good guardians of other species.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

bergere said:


> If a Mammoth Jenny was raised with horses and their foals she should be ok, with future foals. QUOTE]
> 
> Keep in mind that donkey and mules are different in thinking. A Mammoth Jenny could be a Mammoth breed of donkey that is female. Or she could be a LARGE mule, from Mammoth Donkey breeding, that is a female. Plenty of those Mammoth Mules down South, crossed from Draft mares, prized as working Draft animals.
> 
> ...


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