# Best small caliber hand gun for cheapness/accuracy?



## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

We are having a problem with sick critters around here. While it's doing wonders for knocking down the coyote population, every time I *don't* have a weapon on me I see some poor, staggering, half-dead coyote. By the time I retrieve a gun, the coyote is gone. 

(I'm not sure if the issue is distemper or rabies, but I'm leaning towards rabies.)

Anyway -- I need a cheap, light, accurate hand gun that I can carry on my belt, and which would be easy to conceal by wearing a long coat or t-shirt over it. The biggest thing I'd be likely to be shooting at would be a stray dog. I have a shotgun and I can borrow my father's assorted rifles for actual hunting, I just need something to dispatch sick critters with if I come across them. 

I'm currently carrying my father's vintage 70's .22 pistol. :lonergr:While it's better than nothing, it weighs as much as a brick, is too big to conceal easily, and it's not very accurate. It is, however, heavy enough that I might be able to kill a coyote by THROWING it with greater accuracy than it shoots ... LOL. 

Anyway, suggestions for a weapon?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Cygnet said:


> Anyway -- I need a cheap, light, accurate hand gun that I can carry on my belt, and which would be easy to conceal by wearing a long coat or t-shirt over it. The biggest thing I'd be likely to be shooting at would be a stray dog.
> 
> Anyway, suggestions for a weapon?



sure ask for the world , why don't ya 

Accurate , what size target at what distance do you want to hit?

light, how light , 21oz , 25 oz , 32 oz ?

cheap , that's a hard one , the cheapest of the cheap handguns is 200 dollars and it isn't light , there is a fair range of guns in the 350 to 450 that's about were most quality hand guns start 


are you set on 22 or would 9mm or 38 work for you?


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## SectorSteve (Nov 29, 2003)

It all depends on your personal preference. How much recoil can you tolerate? How far will you need to shoot, accurately?
I have a Ruger LCR in 22 mag that I carry around the property. Works great for me.
Steve


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

SectorSteve said:


> It all depends on your personal preference. How much recoil can you tolerate? How far will you need to shoot, accurately?
> I have a Ruger LCR in 22 mag that I carry around the property. Works great for me.
> Steve


Ruger LCR is a great little handgun. I have a couple, One is a .38 special, that I bought before the .357 magnum model was out. Then I bought the .357 LCR.. The .38 special is a little lighter in weight. And it's small & light enough that I don't mind carrying it in the pocket of my Dockers or jeans, going to town or whatever. I have a CCW permit.
But, around the place, I carry the .357 LCR in a belt holster, because it's heavier and more powerful.
Either one is a good little gun to have handy around the farm. I think they cost about $450 or so, each, at my favorite gun shop.


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## Breezy833 (Jun 17, 2013)

Check into the Taurus slim. Its small, easily concealable, and comes in caliber from 9mm to 40.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

In my experience, cheap and accurate or small and accurate are not synonymous. Small, lightweight, concealable handguns are typically manufactured for self-protection where only short range accuracy is important (25 feet or closer).

The most accurate handguns are generally those that are heavy having longer barrels. This category of handgun is generally more expensive and should be accurate to 25 yards or more.

You are going to have to decide what is most important to you: lightweight, accuracy, or cost. i really don't think you'll find all three in a single handgun.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

lets first set a reasonable expectation of accuracy , for anything but target guns generally speaking a standard 9 inch dinner plate is what your trying to hit with a hand gun hold one up to your chest you will see why , if a hit falls inside that your in big trouble and because a hand gun is generally a self defense gun that's what they are designed for 

yes , I shoot ram silhouettes at 100 meters that are about the size of a 2 liter bottle laying down , but a 5 out of 10 is a good score and thats with a MKII with 6 inch barrel and often a red dot sight is needed to get the score form 2-3 to 5 on the rams to hit any it takes considerable practice 



If you want 22 , the options are going to be 
in the more target guns with a 4.5, 5.5 , 6 ,7 or 8 inch barrel that have the potential of a dessert plate at 100 yards if you can do your part 
beretta Noes 
S&W 22A
ruger MKI , II , or III or 22/45
browning buckmark 
colt woodsman 

these guns don't tend to be all that light , and are not short or easy to carry , a the shorter barreled ruger , browing , smith or Neos do have some holsters available but not what you would call concealment holster 


then trainers , trainers are 22 guns that look and feel like the self defense gun they imitate this is a quickly growing market sector these guns like their bigger cal brothers with around 4 inch barrels are generally around 3 inches at 25 yards from a rest 

in the past this sector was primarily revolvers like the S&W 617 tht were the same size and frame as their J framed brothers in 38spl or the S&W K-22 that was the same frame as their service sized brothers and they fit in the same holsters as their larger caliber siblings. ruger also also offered a SP101 in 22lr 

then there was the 1911 conversions to 22lr 

but now almost any gun a cop could carry on duty has a 22 little brother , whether made by the same company or not with barrels in the 3.5 to 5.25 inch range with most around the 4 inch service length
ruger has the SR22 and 22/45
there are numerous 1911 22 trainers 
S&W has the M&P 22
Sig Mosquito 
American Tactical Imports has a glock , bersa , Cz , and several other guns fashioned after popular service and sd guns that use 22lr 

then you find your way down to pocket 22s these are only typically good for up close 25 feet or less
like the 
Beretta tom cat 
Tauruspt-22
Bersa thunder 22
Jimenez arms j.a.22


remember James Bond is a character in a movie , the PPK , and pocket guns while the projectile certainly gets to 50 or 100 yards and could kill at that distance repeatably hitting a target the size of a wood chuck is not normal.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I recently bought a CZ-82... If you can find them, they can be had for about $250, $300... Incredibally accurate, and one of the best triggers you will ever feel... They are DA and SA, so that's a nice plus.. They are a double stack 9mm Makarov... you can carry 12 +1 in it.. . For the firepower it puts in your hand, it's pretty light, and fairly compact.. 

I used to carry my 45 all the time. Now I"m constantly carrying my CZ on my belt with my shirt over it... I'd have no problem thinking I could take a dog or cyote with this gun at 30 yards..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

my daily carry is a Ruger LC9 , 6 inches long , 4.5 high , .75 thick , 7+1 9mm 17.1 oz empty , 20.75 oz loaded with 8 

very easy to carry on a belt or with a IWB holster , or most of the time in the summer i wear shorts with generous front pockets and just put it in the Alabama Holster company kidex pocket holster 

It is more accurate than any other pocket pistol I have ever tried , gallon milk jug or dinner plate at 25 yards consistently off hand , but it definitely didn't start that way , my first time out with it , i wasn't used to a long double action trigger , but after 15 minutes of dry fire a day for a few weeks concentrating on the pull and keeping on target , i taught myself much better grip and trigger control and was able to cut groups from keeping all my shots on a dinner plate at 10 yards to keeping all my shots slow fire at ten yards to canning lid sized group , rapid fire i can usually keep them all on the dinner plate at 10 yards.

a dog kill zone at 25 yards is doable


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

simi-steading said:


> I recently bought a CZ-82... If you can find them, they can be had for about $250, $300... Incredibally accurate, and one of the best triggers you will ever feel... They are DA and SA, so that's a nice plus.. They are a double stack 9mm Makarov... you can carry 12 +1 in it.. . For the firepower it puts in your hand, it's pretty light, and fairly compact..
> 
> I used to carry my 45 all the time. Now I"m constantly carrying my CZ on my belt with my shirt over it... I'd have no problem thinking I could take a dog or cyote with this gun at 30 yards..


 
I shot rings about my pals Glock with my CZ 82. It really IS a great shooting gun!


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

Thanks for the suggestions. Exactly what I was looking for.

I figure if a coyote is healthy enough to run away, he probably doesn't have rabies. The last sick one I saw I could have shot at twenty feet because he was just staggering around with an odd expression on his face. I went home and got a gun (and my father, who happily joined in the coyote hunting fun with his .30-.30 rifle, LOL) and we went coyote hunting and,of course, we couldn't find him. Not sure where he crawled off to -- hopefully, he died quickly under a bush somewhere. 

Anyway, I just need something that's accurate to about fifty feet. The .22 I carry now is so inaccurate that it's going to be random chance if I hit anything with it at greater than point blank. Most of what I'd be killing with it, I'd be able to walk up to, but I don't want to get TOO close to anything with potential rabies. 

The only other target I'd use a hand gun for for besides dispatching sick critters might be loose stray dogs when I'm hiking with the goats, 'two legged problems,' and rattlesnakes in the yard, and those are all likely to be near point blank shots. And I REALLY hope I never have to shoot a two legged problem.

I have no problems with open carry most of the time. Most locals around here are armed, and don't think twice about seeing someone else with a gun. However, sometimes I need to talk to or help out campers in trouble in the national fores, and sometimes they react oddly to people wearing a gun, so being able to throw a windbreaker on and hide my sidearm would be handy. I'd hate to scare some poor campers from the city into a heart attack just because I walked up to their camp wearing a gun.

(You'd be amazed at the number of people who camp in the middle of creek beds when rain is imminent, or who leave their food out in ice chests in bear country. Or who need a jump or help with a flat.)

For what it's worth, I'm a decent shot at non-moving targets, if I have time to think about what I'm doing. Hitting a moving target, however, is not one of my skills. I have problems with double vision, particularly when trying to track a moving target, so I don't try to hit anything that's not standing still.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Cygnet said:


> For what it's worth, I'm a decent shot at non-moving targets, if I have time to think about what I'm doing. Hitting a moving target, however, is not one of my skills. I have problems with double vision, particularly when trying to track a moving target, so I don't try to hit anything that's not standing still.


what is your eye dominance , and what is your hand , if your shooting oposite your eye dominance , moving targets are very hard 

check it you may need to train to shoot with the other hand 

hold both hands out arms length , make a triangle with your thumbs overlapping , look thru the triangle mad by your thumbs and fingers put a fixed object sighted in the middle with both eyes open , now close your left , did the object such as a light switch across the room move or stay as you saw it between your hands , now the right , did it move or stay , whichever eye you were closing when the object appeared to move out of your triangle sight , is your dominant eye


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## psegnatelli (Sep 12, 2012)

If you were my kin this is the advice you'd get from me.

Get something common and quality.

Look for police trade in.

probably going to be either a glock, a sig or a s&w. maybee a beretta. Most likely going to be in 9mm or 40s&w

Get a good gun belt and a good holster

Shoot the crap outta it. Learn how to use your tool

Probably find something for 500 and under


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## psegnatelli (Sep 12, 2012)

Also if you want to get a dog or most other animals to stop for a second or two. Squeak or whistle


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

*Best small caliber hand gun for cheapness/accuracy?* 

Your looking for a defensive gun in a offensive situation. Handguns, for the largest part are a defensive firearm...made for short range. The likelihood of you finding another sick coyote in range of a handgun, with a person who is not skilled with them is pretty darn slim!

If you are going out to kill something, or hunt, you are best to carry an offensive firearm, which would be a rifle or shotgun, depending on circumstances. I shoot a handgun only fair, and I shoot them a fair amount. THey would be *last* choice if I needed to kill something.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

See if you can find an old h&r or NEF 32 revolver. They aren't fancy but they carry well and and the 32 magnum cartridge hits similar to an M1 carbine round and relatively low recoil. With a 4 inch or longer barrel you'd be good on yotes to 75 yards IF you can shoot that well. Other good options are single action revolvers in the same/similar caliber like a used Ruger single six in 32 mag or a Colt SAA knock off in 32-20. Also if you have longer hands/fingers a used AMT automag II in 22 magnum or Automag III in 30 carbine in the shorter barreled variants would do what you want.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I carry a Rugar super six and have the 22 mag cylinder in it. I'm happy with how it performs. 

 Al


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Smith & Wesson 422. Used.

The forgotten gun that saved the company...At a time when Smith couldn't give their guns away, the little 422 sold by the sack full.

Reasons:

1. The are a full size firearm, 4or 6" barrel, but they weigh so little they almost float.
2. They are surprisingly accurate for what they are.
3. Light, single action trigger. That probably contributes to #2 above.
4. The bore sits very close to the top of the hand, letting you shoot them fast. Very, very fast. Before you can say, "Jack married a widow", I can put 10 rounds in a gallon milk jug at 30 feet.
5. As long as you keep them clean, they are quite reliable.

It ranks very high on my list of _Why in the sugar did they quit making that one?_


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

If you want a 22 there are several options mentioned in other posts. Myself, for dogs, especially the possible rabid dog, I want something a little bigger. For me a J frame Smith in 38 would be fine. I have a 1950's 38 Bodyguard and have no issues hitting at your suggested 50 foot range with the 17/8" barrel and fixed sights. It'll also handle shotshells, far better than any 22 shotshell as far as effectiveness. It weighs a little over a pound and is very concealable so as not to frighten the women and girly-boys. A Charter Bulldog is anothe roption, but it's a 44 so that might be too big for what you want. I love mine. A 32 Log or Mag will work fine too.

FWIW- I had a Beretta 25 ACP. I know, I know. What real man would carry one?!!! Well, I did and it was surprisingly accurate, dead reliable and I put down a few **** and skunks with it. The 22lr version might be an option. I'm not an auto guy, even though I own a bunch. Chasing brass ain't my thing. But there are 380s and small 9's out there that could suit you too.


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## deepfried (Aug 5, 2013)

NAA mini 22 mag
Ruger Single six 22 mag 
Kel Tec has a 30 round semi auto 22 mag. 

I just don't like 22 long rifle... 

:darkbeer:


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Personally, I wouldn't go any smaller than a 380, and preferably a 9mm
Just picked up a Kahr CW9. Light weight, accurate, feels good in the hand, common caliber


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> Personally, I wouldn't go any smaller than a 380, and preferably a 9mm
> Just picked up a Kahr CW9. Light weight, accurate, feels good in the hand, common caliber



heard today that Kahr is finalizing a deal to move the hole operation out of NY to PA they had been looking at expansion and decided to move to a more gun friendly state

sure with a manufacturer would move to Wisconsin


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## BurgerBoy (Mar 31, 2013)

I carry a Beretta PX4 Compact 9mm. It a nice pistol and shoots great. It's 15+1.


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## credee (Aug 17, 2013)

Keep some earplugs in a case, in your pocket, on a lanyard. Ifavor the $30 Norton "earvalve" type, so that I can also hear normal sounds. They will double your accuracy and save your hearing. 

If I were you, I'd check out the Phoenix Arms HP22. With the 5" barrel, after I locked the rear sight in place with some Loctite and got rid of the silly safety complications (youtube vid shows how) it would group 1.5" at 25 yds, sitting braced firing position. The 3" barrel got about 2.5" at that range, 5 shot groups.

With one barrel,  and one mag, $100 should buy a used one, with the right to return it if it won't function properly. This gun unheard-of performance at that price. Do NOT trust the safety, however. It's made of pot metal and will quickly wear to the point of being unsafe. Just carry it hammer down and thumbcock it for the first shot.


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## MamaTrip (Aug 3, 2013)

Just completed the 48 hour wait.
Picked up my new 38 special - Charter Arms revolver......Tomorrow I get to shoot it for the first time.
Opinions?


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

Couple thoughts. I have a .380, a .44 mag and a .22 pistol. If it were going to shoot a critter I woud pick up the .22 Ruger Mark II first. It is very accurate, doesn't kick and is dependable. It is much more ecomomical to shoot and therefore practice with. Practice is the important thing! How many hundred rounds have you put through your current pistol? You may find that after you have put 200-300 rounds through it practicing that is not as inaccurate as you think???


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

MamaTrip said:


> Just completed the 48 hour wait.
> Picked up my new 38 special - Charter Arms revolver......Tomorrow I get to shoot it for the first time.
> Opinions?


what model did you get ?

wear your safety glasses and ear plugs when you try it 

if you haven't shot handguns much , a range session with an instructor can get you on the right path faster , it isn't rocket science but the right grip and technique makes a difference , better to start out right than correct bad habits later.


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

I'm gonna head off into a different direction than most. Have you considered a TC? Yep, it's a single shot! But, that frame can work for MULTIPLE caliber variations, barrel lengths, and sighting options.

Near to far, big to little. Put a bipod under it and you're set to make accurate shots! You're not gonna shoot many coyotes with the handguns prescribed herein. There are many coyotes within this handgun, and more!


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## credee (Aug 17, 2013)

IT's not about coyote hunting per se, it's about being able to shoot a run down coyote that is hanging around. The HP22 is certainly capable of the latter job, even with just the 3" barrel. even with prices on 22 ammo jacked up, it's not as expensive as centerfire ammo and there's no centerfire guns as cheap that are worth a dime, much less $100. The 3" barreled version is pocketable. the Contender is not and the contender is $600. there's othe things to shoot and the .22 is more suitable fior those things than some "wonder" caliber in the contender.


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

Mostly, folks who carry handguns and are dissatisfied with them need to make changes within themselves. As Rod said, practice is the key to accuracy, not, usually, a new gun.

I used to shoot the old .32 snubbys that were so worn out they keyholed at 20 feet and I still could hold them close enough together to do what you are trying to do. My first "new" handgun was a Buffalo western style revolver, made in some third world country and cost $26 out of the box, and after I had burned a few bricks of ammo, I could shoot squirrels with it. That was in 1968, but you can imagine what the quality was. It shot little fingernail shaped chunks of lead out the sides when it was brand new.

As to weight and ease of carry, it takes time and attention to become comforatble caryying a gun. That's why so few folks do open carry. That and trying to save money on holsters. I used to buy used holsters from the boxes of them that police had turned in for replacement and wonder why they were such a pain. Then, to my extreme embarrasment, I actually LOST a .38 snubby in the woods and had to go searching for it.

I went home and ordered a holster from "Simply Rugged", because I know Rob and trust him. I have been using that holster daily for years, now, and it still does not sag, still holds the gun firmly, still answers very well for field and desert use and loooks good enough for Sunday-go-to-meetin' use. I have caught myself laying on the rocky ground with most of my weight resting on the holster to protect my sad old butt from the rocks, and can't see where it has suffered any. It also holds the gun close enough to my body to make it, if not concealed, at least not the most prominent part of my body. It retains well enough not to need to optional safety strap, even after all these years. 

I think that the stupidest looking guy in any situation is the one with a big old pistol hanging on his belt from a nylon holster and sticking out about three inches or so from his hip. It clunks on any doorway he walks through, proving to all who see him that he's not used to carrying it. if he pulls his shirt over it, folks still notice, but think he has a colostomy bag under there or something. A good holster hugs he who wears it, unless he is posing as "quickdraw Mcgraw" with a big Western rig. 

I also encounter Canadians and others who are not used to open carry, but I think we do ourselves a service when we aproach them in an open, friendly manner and help them out while armed. They need to get used to the fact that armed citizens are not monsters. 

The funniest instance was when I aproached a couple from Canada in their rented car that they had driven across my pasture to look at the scenery. I explained to them that they were on private property, and there were no hard feelings, but in dry country, one didn't drive off of the roads because it would kill grass for a long time and often would cause erosion. I was very friendly, but could see their eyes creeping, over and over again, to my sidearm. As we parted company, the lady said "thank you for not shooting us" I told her "thank you for not running me down with your car" She said "why would you think I might do THAT?" I said "Why would you think I might shoot you? Each of us is equipped to kill the other, but we are both civilized human beings. You tresspassed on my land, but the penalty for rudeness is not death. Have a nice day."

Never hurts to pass out a little education to those who have no understanding of armed citizens.......Joe


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

Hmmm. The question did in fact revolve around shooting coyotes? And since I am sure you have shot hundreds if not thousands with a 22, I will bow before you! Can you please give us your kill ratio and yardages?



credee said:


> IT's not about coyote hunting per se, it's about being able to shoot a run down coyote that is hanging around. The HP22 is certainly capable of the latter job, even with just the 3" barrel. even with prices on 22 ammo jacked up, it's not as expensive as centerfire ammo and there's no centerfire guns as cheap that are worth a dime, much less $100. The 3" barreled version is pocketable. the Contender is not and the contender is $600. there's othe things to shoot and the .22 is more suitable fior those things than some "wonder" caliber in the contender.


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## credee (Aug 17, 2013)

apparently in YOUR mind, coyotes only offer shots beyond 150 yds and they are tougher than grizzly bears.  They are no different than any other canine that runs 50 lbs or less. Millions of us (over the years) have shot larger stray dogs with 22's and thought nothing of it. More to the point, we've shot millions of other critters appropriate for the .22lr, and defended ourselves with a .22, and kept it discretely out of sight when that was called for. the latter is certainly not an option with a Contender, so why should anyone waste their time and money on such a specialized "pistol", hmm? I can have an HP22 for chores in one pocket, A Keltec PF9 in the other pocket for some power, and have $200 left (vs the price of a contender) for practice ammo.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

I think some people sell a .22 short. With the right ammo for the individual rifle they can be very accurate. Mine will shoot a group under an inch at 100 yards and is 5.5 inches low at that range. I can hit 9 out of 10 chicken eggs at that distance. Of course they are even better closer. They have plenty of power to kill any vermin around the place and they are fun to shoot besides! As to kill ratio on coyotes - the sly SOB's don't show themselves.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Sorry I deleted the whole thread, I meant to get only a post.


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## credee (Aug 17, 2013)

It'snot hard to call in yotes, especially at night. it's also fairly easy to trap or poison most of them, if what you want is to get rid of them. Not everyone is concerned about giving them an instant, hunane death, either. A 22 rifle still has 60 ft lbs left at 150 yds. that is the military's standard for being still lethal, as is piercing a 1" pine board. both were derived from seeing what a .25 auto pistol can and can't do, I have heard.

I did NOT say that it's easy, or even feasible to hit them with a .22lr rifle. at 150 yds. I said that if you DO, they will (eventually) die of the wound. With a 6.7" barreled Browning Nomad .22 pistol, I have taken rabbits and squirrels at 90 LONG paces, The squirrles, in springtime, dig up the young corn shoots. They are visible, standing like prairie dogs, at long distances, making for much easer shots. Every kernel/shoot that they dig up costs me about a dollar. So yes, I HAVE shot them "out of season". The Browning Buckmark is a very similar pistol. The lw, skinny, 4" barreled version is not quite as accurate as my nearly 11" long nomad, but it's close. I can often deliver 1/2" groups with the Nomad, iron sights, its favorite ammo and a braced firing position, at 25 yds. The 4" buckmark "only" groups 5 shots into 1" at that distance. The Papoose Marlin takedown .22 rifle is just 4 lbs. The AR7 is a piece of junk. So you have to decide how much of a burden you are willing to lug around, to give you what sort of capability/range. The papoose takes a few seconds to assemble, but it's many times a better gun than the "floating" AR7 "survival rifle". a piece of string will let you sling your Papoose (assembled or not) out of your way as you do things.

if you want to hit well with a .22 pistol, you'll need earplugs. with the .22 rifle, not so much. I recommend the Norton' earvalve" type, which let you hear normal sounds but block blasts. $30, tho. A used Buckmark will run about $200 from a private seller, $250 from a dealer, depending upon its condition. Personally, I am always happy to see scratches and chips, maybe a little rust, as long as I can testfire it before buying. those cosmetic "dings", knock the price down by $50 or so, but don't effect perfomance at all.


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