# Disbudding with clove oil



## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

A recent study published last year claims injecting the horn site locally results in necrosis of the horn tissue, effectively disbudding the animal. Unfortunately, no information is given on the exact injection tactic, so we are largely left on our own to figure how to inject it. The amount is specified, however.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4405681/#!po=34.3750



> This study was performed to evaluate the efficacy of injection of essential oil of Eugenia caryophyllata in the kid horn buds, as a new chemical technique for disbudding. Five-day-old healthy goat kids from both sexes (n = 16) were divided randomly into 4 equal groups. In groups 1, 2 and 3, 0.2 mL of clove essence and in group 4 (control) 0.2 mL of normal saline was injected into the left horn bud of goat kids. Right horn bud in all kids was considered to ensure that they are horned. During the study, the rate of horn growth were evaluated in determined time intervals between groups 1 and 4. Tissue samples were taken from right and left horn bud in groups 2 and 3, at five and ten days after clove essence injection, for microscopic study. The results of the study showed that the clove essence stopped horn growth, whereas there was no significant difference in horn growth rate between left and right horns after injection of normal saline, in group 4. Histopathological study showed that injection of clove essence caused complete necrosis of epidermis and underlying dermis with collagenolysis in horn bud tissues, 5 days after injection and then progress in healing process was observed after 10 days. According to the results of this study, it can be concluded that the injection of clove essence is an effective method to stop horn growth without any undesirable effects on clinical parameters in goat kids.
> 
> Key Words: Clove essence, Disbudding, Goat kid


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

I actually thought they were quite specific on injection tactic. 18ga needle, .2cc total, injected into 4 different spots on a 5-day horn bud. 

Without drawing a map....I would picture injecting at say 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock positions going from the outside of the horn bud, inserting the needle towards the centre. I don't know for sure that's how they did it but wouldn't the main thing be to inject the full .2cc into the horn bud in 4 different locations? I'm sure all they were trying to do was spread the oil around the bud so the precise location wouldn't matter.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

I must have missed the part where they mentioned that, as I just skimmed though. Has anyone tried this? I'm wondering if it would be easier or less painful than the iron. I always have a problem with it, since they scream, it smells bad, and so sometimes I take it off too soon, resulting in problems later.


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

I am conducting an experiment on it right now. I read the study thoroughly when it first came out and tried to replicate it as precisely as possible.

The only variable is the clove oil. I attempted to find some that is as close to what they used as possible but at the end of the day, I am relying on the manufacturer to have put in the bottle what they said they did - 100% clove oil essence - and not dilute it with another cheaper oil to make money.

I am running the experiment on twin Boer kids. I do not ordinarily disbud Boers so I thought they are the perfect candidates since if it doesn't work, it doesn't matter. My dairy kids I disbudded the traditional way.

What I can report so far is that the injections were not only easy but almost completely stress-free for the kids - unlike the iron. They are dam raised kids so fussed about being picked up and confined in someone's arms for a few minutes but they would have done that anyway. I had expected the horn bud to be harder to inject into than it was - the needle slipped right in. There appeared to be a slight sting or burn when injecting the oil as they flinched a little each time, but as soon as they were done and set down, they appeared to have forgotten it and did not even seek the immediate comfort of nursing, as they do after traditional disbudding.

The doeling did not in fact react in any way. The buckling, when set down, pawed at his horns for about 60 seconds with his hind feet. Whether that was discomfort or just the oily sensation that was unfamiliar, I do not know.

From my point of view it was very easy and far more palatable than doing it with an iron. 

One point: the study mentioned using an 18ga needle but did not specify syringe. I had access to a Â½ cc insulin syringe and decided to try that. The insulin syringe comes with a tiny needle (maybe 24ga?) that cannot be detached. I found that this did NOT work. The syringe makes seeing the markings easy and would therefore make it easy to inject the .05cc into each injection site (to make up the .2cc total). However the clove oil is so thick that drawing it up into the syringe was difficult and I realized expressing it into the horn bud would be even harder.

Therefore, I'd recommend using a 1cc syringe with the 18ga needle. A trifle harder to be precise on injecting the amount, but easier to actually do the injecting.

It is too early to know if it will work. In the study they reported results after two months. I injected my kids at 8 days instead of 5 per the study (had ordered the clove oil and was waiting for it to arrive). They are now 3 Â½ weeks old. So it will be another 6 weeks at least before I will know if it worked.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Very good to know. Please post back later and let us know how it works. I think I could certainly find this a more palatable option than the disbudding iron!


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## 92utownxj (Sep 13, 2013)

I'm very interested to see your results.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

You can get 1cc syringes from places like Jeffers. you could also use a 3cc syringe and be able to draw up about .5cc and spot most of that around. 18ga seems very large, but I guess the idea is to spread it out in the area. 

May I ask how deep you injected and with what length needle? I'm also wondering if they were going around the outside of the bud tissue or towards the center like yourself. I'd like more info, personally. If it works consistently well, it may be an option. 

The downsides will likely include injection site abscesses or infections probably at higher rates than normal disbudding simply because a normal disbud is cauterized.


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

mygoat said:


> You can get 1cc syringes from places like Jeffers. you could also use a 3cc syringe and be able to draw up about .5cc and spot most of that around. 18ga seems very large, but I guess the idea is to spread it out in the area.
> 
> May I ask how deep you injected and with what length needle? I'm also wondering if they were going around the outside of the bud tissue or towards the center like yourself. I'd like more info, personally. If it works consistently well, it may be an option.
> 
> The downsides will likely include injection site abscesses or infections probably at higher rates than normal disbudding simply because a normal disbud is cauterized.


The total quantity injected is .2cc, so to do it in 4 injection sites, you need to inject .05cc into each site, not .5cc. Therefore, the 3cc syringe would be VERY difficult to use accurately for such a minuscule amount.

Yes, Jeffers carries the 1cc syringes. I am fortunate to have a vet as a close friend and she was happy to donate a few to the cause  My 18ga needles are 1".

The way I injected was going around the outside of the bud, and slipping the needle in as close to the base as possible, then injecting towards the center. To keep track of what I was doing, my goal was "approximately" 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock positions on a clock face. How far I went in varied quite honestly. My goal was &#8539;" but it is possible in some sites it went in as far as Â¼" if the kid moved. If I were to do it again, I would restrain the kid as I would for traditional disbudding to avoid movement. However the friend I had helping in this case, held the kids in her arms and they had more ability to move than I would have liked.

I used sterile technique as much as possible to avoid any site infections. The bud was swabbed with alcohol prior to injection and a new needle used for each kid. So far so good, as 2 Â½ weeks (or so) later, we've had no issues. However I can see where that could be a problem with this method.

I wish I had paid more attention in the past to horn growth in my Boers - that might allow me to know sooner if it is working  I noticed yesterday that the outer layer of the buckling's left horn bud appears to be sloughing off. However I've never paid daily attention to horn buds before so don't know if this is part of normal growth or a sign that the treatment is doing something.


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## GreenMomma (Jun 3, 2008)

Clove essential oil is a pretty strong antiseptic and would likely kill any bacteria that might be introduced. I'd be willing to bet the pawing that the buckling did was due to a tingling and then numb feeling. I use clove oil medicinally and had a dentist that used it instead of novacaine when he packed a temporary crown. Kept it sanitary and killed the pain. I am very interested to hear how it works out!


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

mygoat said:


> You can get 1cc syringes from places like Jeffers. you could also use a 3cc syringe and be able to draw up about .5cc and spot most of that around. 18ga seems very large, but I guess the idea is to spread it out in the area.
> 
> May I ask how deep you injected and with what length needle? I'm also wondering if they were going around the outside of the bud tissue or towards the center like yourself. I'd like more info, personally. If it works consistently well, it may be an option.
> 
> The downsides will likely include injection site abscesses or infections probably at higher rates than normal disbudding simply because a normal disbud is cauterized.


That's a possibility, but people give injections regularly with no infections caused by the needle.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Heritagefarm said:


> That's a possibility, but people give injections regularly with no infections caused by the needle.


True, but they are using sterile injection solutions. EO's aren't sterile. Even antibiotics and other drugs or solutions that are 'sterile' and you'd assume aren't habitable by bacteria CAN indeed get contaminated. Not all bacteria are equally susceptible. Being a CHEMICAL you're probably a bit safer vs an antibiotic simply because antibiotics are NATURUALLY occuring substances and so bacteria are either susceptible or not due to biological differences, and/or capable of becoming resistant simply due to rapid reproduction rates and natural selection.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Moboiku said:


> The total quantity injected is .2cc, so to do it in 4 injection sites, you need to inject .05cc into each site, not .5cc. Therefore, the 3cc syringe would be VERY difficult to use accurately for such a minuscule amount.



I was saying I would draw up .5cc and use that to make 8 different injections on the head of one kid. (4 sites per bud).


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

mygoat said:


> True, but they are using sterile injection solutions. EO's aren't sterile. Even antibiotics and other drugs or solutions that are 'sterile' and you'd assume aren't habitable by bacteria CAN indeed get contaminated. Not all bacteria are equally susceptible. Being a CHEMICAL you're probably a bit safer vs an antibiotic simply because antibiotics are NATURUALLY occuring substances and so bacteria are either susceptible or not due to biological differences, and/or capable of becoming resistant simply due to rapid reproduction rates and natural selection.


The main concern would probably be the sterility of the solution. It sounds like the issue you're describing would most likely be caused by poor sanitation or reusing needles, etc. It is likely that if this continues to work, someone will produce vet grade clove oil for this purpose. It will then, of course, cost 10x as much. :/


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## Farmer Jayne (Oct 21, 2013)

I am absolutely thrilled at this idea. Please keep us updated. I'm just sorry that I heard about this too late to try it this season.


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## OwlHillFarm (Feb 11, 2016)

I am very interested by this conversation. I don't normally bother to disbud, much less opt for the more dangerous dehorning, because the meat goat market simply doesn't care and it's a step I don't have to spend time on. However, it might be worth it for any animals I intend to keep around. Even if not, it's still a fascinating study.


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

It has been 22 days since I injected the clove oil into the buds of two 8-day-old kids and I now feel confident saying "something" is happening. I noticed a week ago that the outer layer of the horn buds on the buckling appeared to be sloughing off. By this morning the buds had a flat appearance. I.e., instead of coming to a tip, they looked (and felt) flat. I then noticed that in the center of the left horn bud, I could see what appeared to be the blood vessel that would ordinarily supply the bud. There was no bleeding and the vessel looked dried up. By this evening, both sides had this same look to them.

The buds do NOT appear as non-existent as they do following a traditional disbudding. At least not yet. The buds can still be seen. However the flattish look to them and the visible blood vessel indicate that the tip has sloughed off to reveal it.

I am pleased to see evidence that there is some effect. I'm now curious to see what will happen to what remains of the bud - will it slough off altogether or will this kid always have a scur-like bud reminiscent of a poor disbudding job? Time will tell.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thank you Moboiku for keeping us informed.


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## Farmer Jayne (Oct 21, 2013)

Any updates on your experiment? 

Also, what brand of oil did you get? There are a lot of different kinds and brands. Hard to tell which would be best.


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## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

Would you update us on the progress- a pic if you can? Thanks so much.


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

I was waiting to update until I could get pics but I never remember to take my phone or when I do, I can't get good pics. Disappointingly, the horns are growing. The clove oil definitely had an impact, as the tops are sheared off rather than coming to the usual point. However they have grown some since the tip sheared off. So I'm quite disappointed, though as it didn't matter with these particular kids, its no biggie in this case.

I do want to try again next year. In the study they did the injections at 5 days. I didn't read it until my kids were 4 days old and by the time I ordered the oil and it arrived, they were already 8 days old. So I did it later than they did in the study. Also, in the study write-up, they didn't specify where they injected. I guessed and did 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock positions, as close to the base as I could get and injecting towards the center. But its possible I got most of the oil closer to the center and less at the edges. So I'm going to try again next year and do the injections a little differently. Also, I figure that although they used .2cc per horn bud, there likely isn't too great a risk of "overdosing" so if I use a little more than that, it won't be a big deal. Next year I'm going to make sure and inject the center AND the perimeter of the bud and do it at 4-5 days and see if I get better results.

I won't have a final result for some time yet. Although there has been some growth, I would say the horns are NOT as well developed as they would normally be at this age so I think perhaps the oil has slowed down the growth even though it has not completely stopped it.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Thanks for the update. It's too bad it didn't work. Unfortunately the study didn't tell us everything we needed to know. As with most goat-related things, the given information is usually lacking. Perhaps the type, brand, and manufacturing method of the oil has an impact.


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## 3Peas (Aug 8, 2012)

There is a Facebook group that is testing clove oil disbudding. It's possible that a topical application may also work.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

I injected 85% eugenol oil at 5 days into the horn buds of my 2 Nubians. At 4 weeks old, no horns have erupted and the nubs feel smaller than when I injected them. I'm satisfied with my results so far. A lot less fuss from the kids and the doe who often pushes them away for a couple of days after burning didn't mind clove oil at all


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## Jay27 (Jan 11, 2010)

I used clove oil on 12 bucklings this years. I used 3 different brands of oil and did 4 with each. My results were disappointing. I have 2 that were successfully dehorned and 2 that were 'half' (one horn but not other). I injected between 0.1 and 0.2 mL (total) in 3-4 spots making sure to aim 'under' the bud at no more than 6 days old... Injected as soon as I could determine where the bud was. No correlation with brand or amount. 10 of the 12 reacted with swelling of the head and face to the point of depressed behavior but didn't stop nursing. The swelling occurred 10-12hrs following injection and lasted about 24hrs. It was considerably worse than the pain experienced with hot iron disbudding, IMO. Sadly, I do not think clove oil disbudding is as great as we hoped. I will continue to experiment, but it seems unsuccessful in many cases and is definitely more painful


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## OwlHillFarm (Feb 11, 2016)

So now I'm *really* curious. I wonder what caused the difference in results between these different experiments? It sounds like folks are using similar amounts in the same or nearly the same locations. Different ages of the kids and even different breeds may be playing some role in the different results. I hope that anyone who continues with these experiments will continue to document and share- this is very interesting!


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

OwlHillFarm said:


> So now I'm *really* curious. I wonder what caused the difference in results between these different experiments? It sounds like folks are using similar amounts in the same or nearly the same locations. Different ages of the kids and even different breeds may be playing some role in the different results. I hope that anyone who continues with these experiments will continue to document and share- this is very interesting!


Indeed. Even the bad 50% success rate some have had means there could be room for improvement! Someone needs to conduct that study over here. But they won't, because they're not cows, not enough money in goats, blah blah blah.


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