# So when the economy crashes



## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

And it's clear to all the dollar is only good for fire starting-I assume the banks come around and kick everyone out who doesn't own their homes, right? 

And the tax man? If the money is no good-how does he collect? 

I get that the economy is just about to crash and we are minutes away from Greece-only worse, but if the money is no good then how to do they take control? Kill everyone off, collect only those that will fit in FEMA camps and let what was built fall to ruin? Who will grow food for them? Fix their cars? Entertain the elite? 

I know it's ending ... I'm trying to figure out what the master plan is. And of course, how to stay out of dodge and out of concentration camps.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

Shannon,

Your post is a good example of cognative dissonance. On the one hand you present a scenario where the dollar is only good for firestarting but on the other hand banks are going to kick people out of their houses because they can't pay.

Gather up those "worthless" dollars and pay off the mortgage.

Done.


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

Mike in Ohio said:


> Shannon,
> 
> Your post is a good example of cognative dissonance. On the one hand you present a scenario where the dollar is only good for firestarting but on the other hand banks are going to kick people out of their houses because they can't pay.
> 
> ...


That's my point. I can't understand. I don't get it. I get to pay the stuff off. But what happens if I can't before it's over? I know that FOR NOW the money is good. But it will not quicker than I can pay this place off. 

Should I not wonder? Or just do it silently? Or maybe go back to 9th grade where I clearly left off?


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Who says there IS a master plan and someone is going to take control ?

Hanlon's Razor:
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

And now that I've gone and googled "cognative dissonance" - I guess I need to take some worthless dollars and buy therapy so I can live in some real world, huh? Or maybe some "my God will provide" happy place.

Excuse me for asking.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

Don't back down now! The only cure for ignorance is knowledge. There is much knowledge on this board available for the taking. I also am not wise in the way of politics and national financial management. Sometimes the folks on here forget that the knowledge they have is specialized and not common. Just like a know a bunch about my areas of specialization and basically not much about other area.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

First, check your mortgage and make sure there is no clause that can adjust your payment for inflation. If there is no such clause, then you pay off in inflated dollars and you are good to go. If there is such a clause you need to either get it paid off asap or re-fi with no such clause in the new agreement.

For taxes, IMHO, it is best if you can get some savings in precious metals enough to pay the tax for several yrs. Then each yr you convert just exactly enough to dollars to pay the tax and pay it at once. Sometimes there is a lag in adjustment at the tax office so they aren't raising taxes to keep up with inflation.

Big problem, in my estimation is that the gov will knock zeros off 'old' money and force people to buy 'new' money at pennies on the dollar. Say you have 1000$ old money in the bank and they knock off one zero, you now have 100$ of new money. Not sure how exactly that would affect mortgage payments.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Don't let those who try to mock you discourage you. No one really knows what's going to happen, but most realize it's not going to be good. My DH believes that when everything falls apart, the banks will end up closing, so who will there be to collect? Bottom line is, no sense in worrying about things we can't change. If we see certain things coming, then prepare the best we can. If you think you may lose your home, do you have friends or relatives that own their homes, mortgage free? I know if we lost our home, my parent's home is payed off and we could always take our RV and park it there, but that would be a have to only situation. We plan on trying to ride things out in our home, payed off or not.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Sonshine said:


> Don't let those who try to mock you discourage you. No one really knows what's going to happen, but most realize it's not going to be good. My DH believes that when everything falls apart, the banks will end up closing, so who will there be to collect? Bottom line is, no sense in worrying about things we can't change. If we see certain things coming, then prepare the best we can. If you think you may lose your home, do you have friends or relatives that own their homes, mortgage free? I know if we lost our home, my parent's home is payed off and we could always take our RV and park it there, but that would be a have to only situation. We plan on trying to ride things out in our home, payed off or not.


Agree 100% And a good cheap RV would keep lots of folks from being homeless and out in the cold when it all goes down.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

PrettyPaisley, more and more older folk are saying that the current troubles are like the troubles that caused the Great Depression. My parents BOTH say this! They are in their 80's, and both are as sharp as a tack!

Understand, both were children when the stock market crashed, so we are dealing with their childhood memories along with what they heard the adults talking about.

One thing that happened was that the banks closed with no warning. My Grandfather had 3 months wages in the bank and he never got that back. Employers could not pay their employees, and if they could then they could not pay them right away because the banks were closed. 

The FDIC, which guarentees that you get your money back if your bank closes, was started so that people would trust the banks again.

So, we might all wake up and find that the banks are closed. It happened before and it can happen again. Do you have enough food in your house to eat for a bit? Perhaps some money set by? Becuase if the banks are closed the checks and credit cards will not be accepted and your employer cannot pay you. 

The banks were only closed for a short time, and then the larger banks that survived bought up the little ones that did not. The banks re-opened but my grandparents money was gone. 

To prepare for this sort of thing, my folks suggest having cans and boxes of food in the house and cash as well. I have seen the shelves in their garage: they are storing food themselves. I can only assume they have money hidden away: it is not something that I can ask my parents. 

My grandparents-in-law apparently lost their money also: they could not hire a hand to help plant the fields and so the little kids were drafted. The middle child led the mule, the oldest child held up the handles of the plow (they were shoulder high to her), and the father followed and put the seed in the furrow. It was hard but there was a family to feed and my husbands grandfather NEEDED! that corn! The corn fed the livestock which fed the family!

Land payments. Well, I have no idea how they made payments on their homes. I should probably ask my folks. My inlaws sold anything they could (eggs, cream) in order to pay the taxes so perhaps they owned the farm outright. They never ate anything that could be sold: they lived off of what they could not sell. Pork, cornbread, vegetables, skim milk, and biscuits were most of their diet. My parents lived in the city and they did not eat nearly so well!

So! If new currency is passed out then the Feds will probably exchange our money for the new dollars, and probably in such a manner that the government profits by the deal. We would exchange our old dollars for new ones at the bank.

OR, if we stay with the dollars, the feds might inflate the dolars until they are worth very little. This is one reason I have the garden: inflation has happened all of my life but a tomato is still a tomato! 

Lastly, every time I get worried about what the feds are doing I go and buy some food that stores well. I have a few quarts of oil stashed away, which somebody can have if they are on the Paleo diet. I also have dried fruit, which I believe you can also have. The chickens give me eggs. The other things I stock up on-things like rice and spagetti- are cheap but not on your diet! However, soy sauce on stir-fry garden vegetables, with a can of meat added and served over rice, would make my family excellent dinners if another depression hits. 

The feds want to keep your vote, as well as your neighbor's votes. They will not DELIBERATELY trash your household, but if they mess up the money system you folks might get hurt anyways unless there is something to eat at your place to tide you over until folks can buy and sell again. 

Remember that the Feds live in the USA also. They will not PERMANANTLY mess up folks ability to buy and sell because it would affect them and their families. They might, however, mess things up short term with their antics, and if they do it will likely make for another depression. My in-laws grew corn and the corn also fed the pigs and some cows. My own place is large enough to give us honey, vegetables and eggs: grain I buy and store. 

What can you have at your place to feed your family for a little bit?


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## Pam in KY (Jul 26, 2011)

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if there's economic collapse - are bank employees actually going to show up for work to start foreclosure procedures when there's no paycheck coming their way?


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I really believe if the dollar fails the banks won't go without. Somehow they will be protected and bailed out as in days past.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Pam in KY said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here, but if there's economic collapse - are bank employees actually going to show up for work to start foreclosure procedures when there's no paycheck coming their way?


Those who keep their jobs WILL be paid, whether in inflated dollars or new dollars or whatever. They were during the depression!


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

PrettyPaisley said:


> And it's clear to all the dollar is only good for fire starting-I assume the banks come around and kick everyone out who doesn't own their homes, right?
> 
> And the tax man? If the money is no good-how does he collect?
> 
> ...


Not at all! The only ones that will be hurt badly are those that have lots of money or hold other people debt. The rest will pay off what they owe with inflated dollars and think Christmas is here. The same thing for taxes until congress or state legislature raises it you can pay it with inflated dollars.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

PrettyPaisley said:


> That's my point. I can't understand. I don't get it. I get to pay the stuff off. But what happens if I can't before it's over? I know that FOR NOW the money is good. But it will not quicker than I can pay this place off....




Perhaps the premise is flawed. Not understanding may mean that what you think will happen really isn't going to. If it doesnt make sense, is it possible that it doesn't make sense because it wouldn't happen that way?


Several points, paper money won't ever be good for starting fires, its treated so it wont burn easily, and is made of a type of paper that doesn't burn easily (has cloth fibres in it).

Why wouldnt it be worth anything? Everything used as money or a medium of excange only has value because people agree to take it in trade. IF (notice thats in caps) the economy totally collapsed (not a theory I put a huge amount of stock in), peole still need an exchange medium. Paper money is as good if not better than anything else thats likely to be used, other than hard items for barter. Barter all sounds well and good, but it isnt very practical for most people and most uses, thats why money came into being, its tradable for what you want to somebody else. I built you a basket, I dont want your pig, I want something I can trade for what I want,....

What the heck did most people do with gold or silver? It was only valuble if it was taken in trade, it had zero practical use for most people, it was simply agreed upon as an exchange medium. If things got so bad the gov ceased to exist as a functioning entity, and the "paper value" of cash money was nil, people would likely come to an agreement about its local value as exchange.

I seriously doubt the banks would want everyones hosues, they only represent value if they can be sold, and theres a functioning economic system. The recent crash in the housing market has shown that many many foreclosed houses turned into junk from nobody living in them. Yeah, just what the banks need, to have ALL their mortgages turn to worthless liabilites!

I also dont buy the fema camps idea. There couldnt be nearly enough camps to accomodate everyone, and as mentioned, whod then raise food drill for oil, and all the other things that need doing? It simply doesnt make sense. It also isnt realistic to think that the entre country would line up lke sheep to go. There far too many free thinkers, and far far too many weapons in private hands to ever let enything like the fema camp idea get beyond a pipe dream in some fascists eye.

The only way any of this works, is if the whole thing works. Nobody wants things to crash (other than perhaps some that dream about it and how well they'll survive), nobody gets rich if it all comes apart. can ti get bad? Yes, i think so. Is there a "paln" for it all to crash? I seriously doubt it. I've been watching this discussion for 30-some years, I think it's less likely at this point that I did back then. Sure, some politicos may want more power, but I dont see that getting very far either. I dont see it turning into a mad max or total gov control, it just wouldt make sense, practically, or realistically.

Not mocking, just presenting a different perspective.

Another thought, in the Great Depression, what was the unemployment rate? 20-25%? I really dont recall. It was appalling how many people were out of work, and it was a disaster in so many ways. What most forget though, is that at 25% unemloyment, that 75% are still working. Yes, we just went through a period of high unemployment (much less than the Great Depression), but still most had work. It wasn't a complete crash. That doesnt minimize that so many lost their homes and jobs, but lets keep it in perspective.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Possum Belly said:


> Agree 100% And a good cheap RV would keep lots of folks from being homeless and out in the cold when it all goes down.


Being military, we have had to relocate several times through the years. Since we've always had dogs, it was hard to find a place to stay till we could find a house or apartment. The RV has been our second home so we always had a place to stay till we could move into a more permanent domicile. This will hopefully be our last base, so we're buying our home here, but the RV is parked in the back yard and we take DS and his friends out there to camp out.  We fixed up a fire pit, a small pond and some outdoor games for them. We also keep it well stocked as a bug out vehicle. It's payed off.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

In the GD of the 20th century, people lost all the money in their accounts. HOWEVER, the banks still held the mortgages and legally sold those notes to the highest bidder. Then the new mortgage holders came and collected, but the people who lost their money never got it back! Do NOT count on the banks not coming to collect. They will collect or toss you out on the street. They've done it before, they'll do it again. 

The Feds may not intentionally 'trash the dollar' permanently, but that isn't to say it won't happen.

If I had a mortgage, I'd be going over it with a fine tooth comb to see exactly what I had agreed to. Get a lawyer if you need to. Those legal contracts are deliberately written so most of us can't understand them. You can read the thing and think you know what you are signing, but you may not understand exactly what you agreed to.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

I don't see a collapse. I do see inflation continuing with durable goods and food being much more expensive in the future. Many with jobs can expect few if any pay raises. Those with savings are going to continue to receive little or no interest income. Those and the ones on fixed incomes are the ones that will definitely see their standard of living reduced.

The wild cards are the Israeli/Iranian situation and the monster supply of natural gas that's overwhelmed the market. Either are game changers that can affect Americans.

As long as you stay way from the big national banks and stay with a well researched local or maybe regional bank, your account is safe. This is the time to use your head and not spend money willy nilly doing things that aren't worthwhile. If you absolutely know you have a guaranteed source of income this is a good time to buy real estate in an area that meets the usual rules.

Paying back a loan with inflationary dollars is always a good idea. But you need to know you'll always have the income.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Another issue that comes to my mind when comparing the GD and our present cliffhanger situation is "society"....people were more rural during the GD and more wholesome, religious and took good care of each other.
Today we are way more urban, violent and drug addicted....if you have anything someone will try to steal it from you sooner or later these days.


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## wes917 (Sep 26, 2011)

My grandmother is 89 and I have learned a lot from her about how things were back then. Shes been telling me stories since I was a child because I was so interested. I learned the fbi came to her house as a child because great-grandma was bootlegging. Heard stories of borders that would stay, how great grandma managed to get 20 acres to farm, unfortunately grandma took the house in the city and her brothers took the farm when great grandma passed. Grandma taught me how to cook, garden, sew, and a great variety of other lessons including frugality and how to stay as debt free as possible. It is always amazing to me because her own children didnt bother to learn them from her. I also learned a great deal from my wifes grandmother, they were cut from the same cloth it seemed and both loved that a young person was interested in their lessons. Both my wife and I would spend hours talking with them, learning recipes and how to stretch things in general so we feel about as ready as we can be for what lies ahead. My grandmother says she fears it will happen again and always says she hopes shes prepared me well enough.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

No crash has ever been bad enough that nobody is making money. Some lose, some win. Some people lose their house, some people figure out how to work the new system and they come out far ahead.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Read the book,or learn more about Adjenda 21.

Yet, no one to my knowledge has yet connected all the dots between Barack Obama and the Radical Left. When seen together, the influences on Obama's life comprise a who's who of the radical leftist movement, and it becomes painfully apparent that not only is Obama a willing participant in that movement, he has spent most of his adult life deeply immersed in it. 


But even this doesn't fully describe the extreme nature of this candidate. He can be tied directly to a malevolent overarching strategy that has motivated many, if not all, of the most destructive radical leftist organizations in the United States since the 1960s.


The Cloward-Piven Strategy of Orchestrated Crisis


In an earlier post, I noted the liberal record of unmitigated legislative disasters, the latest of which is now being played out in the financial markets before our eyes. Before the 1994 Republican takeover, Democrats had sixty years of virtually unbroken power in Congress - with substantial majorities most of the time. Can a group of smart people, studying issue after issue for years on end, with virtually unlimited resources at their command, not come up with a single policy that works? Why are they chronically incapable?


Why? 


One of two things must be true. Either the Democrats are unfathomable idiots, who ignorantly pursue ever more destructive policies despite decades of contrary evidence, or they understand the consequences of their actions and relentlessly carry on anyway because they somehow benefit.


I submit to you they understand the consequences. For many it is simply a practical matter of eliciting votes from a targeted constituency at taxpayer expense; we lose a little, they gain a lot, and the politician keeps his job. But for others, the goal is more malevolent - the failure is deliberate. Don't laugh. This method not only has its proponents, it has a name: the Cloward-Piven Strategy. It describes their agenda, tactics, and long-term strategy.


http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

7thswan said:


> Read the book,or learn more about Adjenda 21.
> 
> Yet, no one to my knowledge has yet connected all the dots between Barack Obama and the Radical Left. When seen together, the influences on Obama's life comprise a who's who of the radical leftist movement, and it becomes painfully apparent that not only is Obama a willing participant in that movement, he has spent most of his adult life deeply immersed in it.
> 
> ...


Agreed.

I saw a movie a few weeks ago "Agenda-Grinding America Down".

What we are facing is FAR worse, IMO, than the Great Depression. This is about the calculated destruction of this country that has been going on since almost-it's inception. 

Connecting the dots to b0's background will rattle you to the core. I walked out of that conference with all the answers I could never fathom before. Why has the gov't given Monstanto a blank check? Why have the refused to shut the borders? Why have they refused to balance the budget and run the debt so high? Why don't more American's get it? The plan to destroy America has been going on for almost 100 years. b0 is the one to bring it all to a head. 

The banks closing shop is just another spoke in the wheel.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

PrettyPaisley said:


> And now that I've gone and googled "cognative dissonance" - I guess I need to take some worthless dollars and buy therapy so I can live in some real world, huh? Or maybe some "my God will provide" happy place.
> 
> Excuse me for asking.


My response wasn't meant to be snide. You are stating (and thinking) two incompatible ideas at the same time. This isn't about "my God will provide" or being in a happy place. You are clearly concerned but you need to think through what you are concerned about.

Cyngbaeld is correct in raising the issue of mortgages which adjust with inflation. Those are commonly referred to as "adjustable rate mortgages". I'm old fashioned and wouldn't touch one of those with a 10 foot pole.

Mike


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

1 thing I remember form adj 21.= All land to become property of the gov. I also read that the global plan( green dreams) wants under 5 million people for the entire earth.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

7thswan said:


> Read the book,or learn more about Adjenda 21....




....if it's real and true. Because someone wrote a book, and it seems to make sense doesn't mean it's real, true or right.

People write books about all sorts of things. Some believe them, some do not. They can both have good, rational (to them) reasons for believeing what they believe, or not believe. They can't both be right.

For example, Hal Lindsey wrote several books about bible based beliefs concerning "the end". I read and beleived them years ago. Today, I do not, I think he was wrong. Very wrong. Made sense at the time, and sure seemed like he had it figured out.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

In my opinion, the reason the feds keep spending money they do not have, and making wild promises to everybody, is because they want to be re-elected.

Of course, if carried to extremes, that will ALSO crash the economy! And the next 12 months will be stressfull to anybody who is paying attention!


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

7thswan said:


> 1 thing I remember form adj 21.= All land to become property of the gov. I also read that the global plan( green dreams) wants under 5 million people for the entire earth.


We are already halfway there with govt owning land...you will never own a piece of land outright (in other words, you cannot live off a piece of land in this country...it will cost you something). I am so over property taxes it ain't even funny!


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Malamute said:


> ....if it's real and true. Because someone wrote a book, and it seems to make sense doesn't mean it's real, true or right.
> 
> People write books about all sorts of things. Some believe them, some do not. They can both have good, rational (to them) reasons for believeing what they believe, or not believe. They can't both be right.
> 
> For example, Hal Lindsey wrote several books about bible based beliefs concerning "the end". I read and beleived them years ago. Today, I do not, I think he was wrong. Very wrong. Made sense at the time, and sure seemed like he had it figured out.


The book is baised off of information from the Goverment. It is called "The Project".


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

wannabechef said:


> We are already halfway there with govt owning land...you will never own a piece of land outright (in other words, you cannot live off a piece of land in this country...it will cost you something). I am so over property taxes it ain't even funny!


I know, we are considering selling our beef and the farm to size down. Only thing stopping us is that we can lease out the land for the same ammount as the taxes.So, maybe just the beef will go.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

7thswan said:


> The book is baised off of information from the Goverment. It is called "The Project".




OK, "based off". Still doesn't mean the conclusions are correct, same as Hal Lindseys books "based on" the Bible.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

PrettyPaisley said:


> That's my point. I can't understand. I don't get it. I get to pay the stuff off. But what happens if I can't before it's over? I know that FOR NOW the money is good. But it will not quicker than I can pay this place off.
> 
> Should I not wonder? Or just do it silently? Or maybe go back to 9th grade where I clearly left off?


 Read your mortgage note. Does it have a clause saying they can demand another currency? If not and the dollar crashes; and it takes a billion bucks to buy bread... It'll cost you pocket change to pay off your mortgage. In this scenario being in debt is good.

If however they have a currency clause you may well be screwed. There would likely be a populist movement once things get that bad though, so you might be ok---ish...


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

7thswan said:


> I know, we are considering selling our beef and the farm to size down. Only thing stopping us is that we can lease out the land for the same ammount as the taxes.So, maybe just the beef will go.


The days of hubby and wife raising a few cattle and a few small gardens on a large acreage tract to sustain are over....its really a shame. I am tired of being taxed, double taxed and triple taxed.

Vehicle Tag...double tax
Business equipment tax...double tax

Yes you can write these off on your taxes, but not near as much write off as you are paying percentage wise.

I am deeply saddened about our country's current state and what will become of the future.


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

InvalidID said:


> Read your mortgage note. Does it have a clause saying they can demand another currency? If not and the dollar crashes; and it takes a billion bucks to buy bread... It'll cost you pocket change to pay off your mortgage. In this scenario being in debt is good.
> 
> If however they have a currency clause you may well be screwed. There would likely be a populist movement once things get that bad though, so you might be ok---ish...


I do know we do not have an adjustable rate mortgage. I will (try to) read to see if they can demand another currency. 

We do have another home, a small one in the city (a VERY undesirerable place, IMO) that my MILish is moving into next month. She bought it for pennies after a death and unfortunate accident my SILish suffered (long story-was family property) and paid cash. And since she is nearing 70 she put the entire thing in SO's name - so I GUESS that is good, though I would sooner die than live in West Charlotte. Of course that could all be one and the same here shortly.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Well after thinking about this and seeing the responses I have a few answers. 1. is have enough PM's for property taxes for several yrs. 2. PM's have outlasted any paper $ for over 5000 years. 3 . If you have food or can provide something of value to anyone that has the PM's they will barter.... 4 We are in a depression and most people dont realize it...... 5 is pray if you believe.......


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

6 . We 55 members and 466 guests on SE&P right now ... LOL.... Might be a good thing???


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

I don't think you can make a valid comparison between now and the days leading up to the Great Depression. 

The banks failed during the GD and many people lost their money. Now the banks are backed up by the Federal gooberment so even if the banks fail the gooberment will pay you. But wait, the gooberment is broke so they can't pay you. Sorry, you lose any money you had in the bank.

Back then the dollars were backed up by precious metals. If you had dollars hidden in the matress they were still worth something. Now, your horded dollars are worthless. Lots more folks will lose their life savings and have nothing left. 

During the GD the unemployment rate was 25% and times were tough. Now, the unemployment rate is about 8% but to compare you have to add in all the folks that were counted in 1930 that are not counted now. The current figure doesn't count those who have quit looking for work. Nor does it count those that are on entitlement programs. It seems to me that the real unemployment figure is way higher in 1930 terms than what it was during the GD.

In the GD most of the people lived on acreage in the country. Even if they didn't have much cash income, they could grow and raise enough to get by. Not so now.

The gooberment in 1930 didn't have our national debt. They were able to put the unemployed on the federal payroll via the CCC and WPA so folks could support their families. Now, the gooberment is broke so don't expect them to bail you out. 

I think what is likely to happen is what happened in Iceland and Greece. The value of the currency will fall by over half fairly quickly. In other words, everything will cost twice as much but your Social Security, retirement income, and wages won't go up. 

If you think about how the gooberment is going to get out of the mess it's in, the only thing that makes sense is for there to be hyper-inflation. Then they can pay off SS and the debt in worthless inflated dollars. Unfortunantly this screws all of us except the wealthy who will invest in other currencies and foriegn real estate. How do you attain hyper-inflation? Keep the printing presses rolling which they are doing.

Since I am not wealthy I am combating this by being debt free, having very little money in the bank or the matress, owning rural land free and clear, and buying as much food and stuff as I can afford. I expect that my rural land will produce enough to feed me and keep me warm and that I can scratch up enough for the property taxes each year.

As an aside, If you think the gooberment can't herd us all into concentration camps just look to how the Nazis did it. If the population is starving it would be easy to get them to go to a camp by promising they would be taken care of.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Malamute said:


> ....if it's real and true. Because someone wrote a book, and it seems to make sense doesn't mean it's real, true or right.
> 
> People write books about all sorts of things. Some believe them, some do not. They can both have good, rational (to them) reasons for believeing what they believe, or not believe. They can't both be right.
> 
> For example, Hal Lindsey wrote several books about bible based beliefs concerning "the end". I read and beleived them years ago. Today, I do not, I think he was wrong. Very wrong. Made sense at the time, and sure seemed like he had it figured out.


Agenda 21 is a UN agenda that our government has signed on to. Go to the UN website and research it. I think it's 40 pages long.


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

TripleD said:


> Well after thinking about this and seeing the responses I have a few answers. 1. is have enough PM's for property taxes for several yrs. 2. PM's have outlasted any paper $ for over 5000 years. 3 . If you have food or can provide something of value to anyone that has the PM's they will barter.... 4 We are in a depression and most people dont realize it...... 5 is pray if you believe.......


What's a PM?


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

PM = precious metals = gold/silver/etc.


Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but I believe there is a plan, and the plan is for the govb to own everything. Here's how it was explained to me... 

Notice how the housing bubble made prices so high that they extended loans to 40 years, and some even longer? Any way you look at it, prices have gone so high that the only way to buy a home or land is to finance it. 

Remember how the big banks were forced to take bailouts, even the ones who didn't want them? 

Notice how we are constantly bombarded with ads for reverse mortgages for the elderly? The banks will own the homes/land instead of it being passed down the family.

The govbs will own the banks, the banks will own the property, therefore the govbs will own the property.

Now for the part that has me totally convinced... 

A few years ago I learned about land patents. 100 years ago, nobody would have considered buying land unless they were given the land patent for it. Land patents are ownership papers. INDISPUTABLE ownership. 

I started working on getting a land patent on my property. To make a long story short... I was told it used to take a couple days to get it done, now it takes a few weeks or months. The reason it now takes so long is because the feds are filing land patents so fast they can't keep up with them. They are falling further behind all the time.

Now why do you suppose the feds are filing all those land patents???? 

A deed is NOT ownership. A deed is permission to use the land until the true owner needs it for some other purpose (hence imminent domain!) The true owner is the name on the land patent. If you think the deed gives you ownership, just stop paying your property tax and the real owner will take possession. Property tax is the yearly rental you pay to continue using the land until you sell the right to use it to the next "owner" of the land.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

PrettyPaisley said:


> What's a PM?


precious metals.


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## Kel T (Aug 19, 2011)

Precious metal, I do believe.

Like you, PP, I worry about what's going to happen. Like I told my husband, what will be, will be and all we can do then is roll with the punches so we don't get flattened. I will say this though in regards to the goobermint taking people's land, I'll burn everything on my place if they come for it. If I can't have it, I'm for skippy not letting the nitwit in the WH use it to fund the gimmee crowd.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Spinner said:


> PM = precious metals = gold/silver/etc.
> 
> 
> Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but I believe there is a plan, and the plan is for the govb to own everything. Here's how it was explained to me...
> ...


Spinner.. You are right the government and banks feed off income and debt. The debt can be credit cards , mortgage and education loans..I am in the rental housing business so Just want to put that out here. I am closing on one Monday . It was a reverse mortgage insured by the fed, 86K loaned 3yrs ago. My purchase price is 14k....It cant keep going like this!!!


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

[YOUTUBE]yzumKzjzJp4[/YOUTUBE]


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

Here is an article I read on Hyperinflation, just curious on everyone's thoughts. I didn't read the whole thing because at one point it went beyond my comprehension. I am pretty ignorant when it comes to economics. 

US Hyperinflation Is A Myth | Finance

Also if someone were to invest in PM what would be the best advise that you would give them to get started? Dh and I have a nice little nest egg but have no clue about investing in PM. We have talked about it but dont even know where to begin that is why we havent yet.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2012)

The whole concept of "debting" your way through life is flawed. People should have saved up their money and struggled to own a home and they'd be a lot more careful about taking a chance on losing it. Mortgages, car loans, credit cards. All are signs of a morally bankrupt society.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

The article is also beyond my comprehension. I suspect they are not explaining themselves very clearly.

I see that that they said American Households were deleveraging? That means they are paying off their debts. I wonder where they got those statistics: somehow I thought that peoples debts were going up, not down.

I ALSO do not see what that has to do with hyperinflation. In Germany hyperinflation was caused by the government printing dollars to get themselves out of debt. I would like to think that our Feds know better, but their QE's are making me nervous!


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

TripleD said:


> Well after thinking about this and seeing the responses I have a few answers. 1. is have enough PM's for property taxes for several yrs. 2. PM's have outlasted any paper $ for over 5000 years. 3 . If you have food or can provide something of value to anyone that has the PM's they will barter.... 4 We are in a depression and most people dont realize it...... 5 is pray if you believe.......


 Cash to pay taxes is the only way to go. For the people that think PMs are better I would argue, why give the government gold when they give you paper? Also, in a serious economic collapse odds are the government would confiscate gold.

Now, having a little gold on the side to trade for paper later...


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Terri said:


> The article is also beyond my comprehension. I suspect they are not explaining themselves very clearly.
> 
> I see that that they said American Households were deleveraging? That means they are paying off their debts. I wonder where they got those statistics: somehow I thought that peoples debts were going up, not down.
> 
> I ALSO do not see what that has to do with hyperinflation. In Germany hyperinflation was caused by the government printing dollars to get themselves out of debt. I would like to think that our Feds know better, but their QE's are making me nervous!


 They got these numbers from the Q3 economic data. If one looks deeply into the numbers they see that while yes, the economy grew at something close to 2%; But the down side is that household spending is WAY down and the government made up over 60% of economic 'growth'...

And that's a FRIGHTENING thought. The government was 60% of the growth in the last quarter? Doesn't that mean there was no REAL growth?


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

Nimrod said:


> As an aside, If you think the gooberment can't herd us all into concentration camps just look to how the Nazis did it. If the population is starving it would be easy to get them to go to a camp by promising they would be taken care of.


Yep.

Disarm the population.
Control the Information (Media)
Get rid of the outspoken/opposition.
Divid the population into groups.
Control the groups by controling the resources.
Have them march right into to trains, camps and gas chambers.


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

Spinner said:


> PM = precious metals = gold/silver/etc.
> 
> 
> Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but I believe there is a plan, and the plan is for the govb to own everything. Here's how it was explained to me...
> ...


Spinner,
So you are saying that if you have a Land Patent you don't have to pay land taxes, or are you saying that the government cannot take your land for taxes owed if you have a land patent? Please give us your legal reference sources for this. Thanks.


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

zong said:


> The whole concept of "debting" your way through life is flawed. People should have saved up their money and struggled to own a home and they'd be a lot more careful about taking a chance on losing it. Mortgages, car loans, credit cards. All are signs of a morally bankrupt society.


Now that I am older I agree with you to a point. But just like generational poverty and your momma taking you to the food stamp office when you're 18 to get your entitlements, if you've never had a different behavior modeled you will learn no differently. 

My mother told me since birth "you'll always have a car payment". Clearly she has an unhealthy love of fancy cars and a great credit score. It's taken me years of being away from her and seeing that a more modest lifestyle is really what it's all about. She was raised poor, I was not, but managed to settle down and start thinking long term. 

And trust me-my mother has tons of flaws but she is hardly morally bankrupt. Extremely materialist but she works her butt off for all that bling she feels she needs-which is a whole different issue.


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## Ohiogal (Mar 15, 2007)

Check into prepaying your land taxes. My county allows this...so if you can fork up the bucks for a couple years in advance, and you know things are going south, pre-pay them electronically if possible (so there's no argument and an audit trail) and then sit tight.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Two sources which came from people here and have served me well, for info, zerohedge.com 
for pm, justmeasures.com


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

Someone mentioned precious metals, I believe that in a SHTF scenario that metal wont be worth anything. Food, water, alcohol, guns, ammo and tobacco will be your currency. Gold or other metal is not worth anything unless someone needs it or wants it...if the person with the gold is struggling with food supplies like everyone else, who wants gold?


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## SkyridgeFarm (Oct 10, 2012)

Pretty Paisley - I have the same questions & concerns you do. It's pretty much all I think about these days. It all feels like a really, really bad dream. Agenda 21 is what worries me the most.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Interesting posts so far. Some people see a train coming at us, some are concerned but not ready to make major changes, and some in complete denial.

I guess I'm with the train people. Our Federal spending last year was around 3.3 trillion dollars. The total federal income through taxes, fees, etc. was around 2.1 trillion. We borrowed about 1.2 trillion, adding that much to our now 16.3 trillion dollar debt. The entire income is less than the "mandatory" spending, including SS, pensions, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, and the interest on our debt. That's before one soldier gets paid, or one paper clip gets bought. Those are considered "discretionary".

One main reason we can still borrow is the dollar is the world's currency. Russia and China, along with India and a few other countries are in the process of changing that. The dollar isn't strong now, and getting weaker by the day. At some point in the not too distant future we won't be able to sell T-bills to foreign nations. That's when you'll hear about a "Bank Holiday".

There have been many scenarios suggested for when this happens. The most likely to me is immediate "emergency measures" instituted by the Gov't, freezing all assets, declaring new regulations confiscating 401k and IRA accounts with the promise of future incremental repayment. New tax rates will be introduced, and not just on the "rich".

In a plea to "share the pain", all Federal checks will be reduced by a %, small at first but larger as the crisis continues.

It might take days, weeks, or even months for the whole house of cards to collapse, but deflation, then hyper-inflation are historically the end results.

You don't have to be an economist to realize investing now in hard assets, producing land, production animals, and food stocks is the wisest way for an individual to allocate their money.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

If you go here you will get a lot of information on what is going on made simple

Fiscal Cliff - Cheat Sheet - Explained in 3D infographics


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## Phalynx (Nov 3, 2005)

So I read up on land patents. It was very interesting. But, It leads me to an important question that concerns all of this. What good would any of this do against a government so willing to break the law?

We are quickly being put into the position where "right" is dictated and can be applied unequally.

Just a thought.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

wannabechef said:


> Someone mentioned precious metals, I believe that in a SHTF scenario that metal wont be worth anything.



Yes....someone ALWAYS brings this up.....totally ignoring 3000 years of history....AND making the assumption that "SHTF" is going to be a total Mad Max world instead of the MORE LIKELY situation where your paper money simple gets more and more worthless as time goes on and you starve because your social security check is $2,000 and bread is $100/loaf.

A US gold twenty dollar one ounce coin and a US twenty dollar bill were the same thing 100 years ago. Now a fresh minted US 50 dollar one ounce coin is $1750 paper "dollars". The gold didn't change.....one ounce is one ounce. The paper simply went WAY DOWN in value.....and will continue to do so in the future. THAT is SHTF.



wannabechef said:


> Food, water, alcohol, guns, ammo and tobacco will be your currency. Gold or other metal is not worth anything *unless someone needs it or wants it*...


Exactly ( the part in bold ).....If I have plenty of food, water, alcohol, guns, ammo ( I have no tobacco now, or any need for any ), then WHY wouldn't I be interest in some form of real money to buy things down the road ??


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

The tax man isn't interested in bartering for goat milk or eggs. He wants cash. THAT is why you need to get some PMs. So you can pay the taxes. I can probably manage not to starve unless I get put off my property for not being able to pay the tax.


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## lurnin2farm (Jun 10, 2012)

Terri said:


> The article is also beyond my comprehension. I suspect they are not explaining themselves very clearly.
> 
> I see that that they said American Households were deleveraging? That means they are paying off their debts. I wonder where they got those statistics: somehow I thought that peoples debts were going up, not down.
> 
> I ALSO do not see what that has to do with hyperinflation. In Germany hyperinflation was caused by the government printing dollars to get themselves out of debt. I would like to think that our Feds know better, but their QE's are making me nervous!


Our feds are the same as all the other central banks around the world. Same owners. They know how to take control of the money supply and make sure the people of earth are enslaved. 

They also own a large percentage of the gold in the world. Ask yourself why they have all this if they have no plans to use it. Its always been money and always will be. 

Ultimately they want to bring in the new world order, one world government. Then they will do whatever they need to do to bring the population of the planet down to manageable levels. My guess is they will do this through monsanto and the vaccines the big pharma produces.


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