# Probably won't be homeschooling.



## hmsteader71 (Mar 16, 2006)

Well, I guess next year I won't be homeschooling. My dd will be done with her senior year this year and our 11-year-old we put back in public because he was throwing screaming fits every day several times a day and the other two couldn't get their work done. Now, my 13-year-old want to go back because he says he has always hated homeschooling (this is our 5th year). 
What do you do when a dream dies? When the vision you had doesn't happen and the kids are not getting on board with it? 
I don't want to send him back, but I also don't want him miserable.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Homeschooling is about your children's best possible education -- not about your dream. If your children are not responding well, you must do one of two things:

1) put them back in PS, or
2) change the way you homeschool

Your children seem to be giving you a very clear message that the way you're teaching them doesn't work for them. Perhaps re-evaluate your methodology, re-test their learning styles (this can change, and what worked when they were in the second grade might not work in the seventh), and then look deeper. Is there something going on in the home, or in the neighborhood, or with a relationship? Have their lives changed in some way in the last year that you need to consider? 

Lastly, be totally honest with yourself. Are you putting in your best effort to make sure that their education is better than what they would get in PS? By "best effort" I don't necessarily mean just "a lot of work", although that is important, too -- but are you doing what they NEED you to do? 

I hope it works out for you -- but when I see homeschoolers give up and go back to PS, it's generally because the parent is trying to live THEIR dream and lose the child's need in that, or they try to do too much, and everyone gets burnt out before they have a chance to succeed.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Ask yourself honestly why you posted this message? Are you wanting us to talk you out of sending your kids back to PS, or to validate your decision?

I don't mean to sound like I run too authoritarian of a household, but who cares what my children want? They are _children_ and I'm the adult who is responsible for their well-being, spiritual growth, and journey into adulthood. How can I delegate that authority to some unknown institution? Do I want my sons to grow up to be men in my image, or do I want them to grow up to resemble Mr. Dickenson, the history teacher from 3rd period? The purpose of educating boys is to make men. We have removed the influences that promote a child-led environment in our household and we are now properly an adult-led household. 

By putting your fit-thrower back in public school you didn't solve your problem, you removed your problem. Your 11 year old challenged your authority and he won. You need to bring that back into order immediately in order to maintain any semblance of control over your household.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

in a while, maybe they need to go back and see what it is they are choosing? 

Children often can't choose what is best for themselves -they will choose the easy way. They can't see the future, you can. It seems that you have a lazy student problem to me. I can't see everything you are doing, so I am not sure. The way you described it sounds like you have more of a parenting issue than a schooling issue. Do they have enough activity to keep them off the couch? Is the computer off bounds until school work is done? Are you just coming off vacation and need to get out of vacation mode? Maybe you could unschool for a week - meaning do just activities together - not meaning do no school. perhaps you need to pump some new interest into school? How is YOUR interest going now? Are you interested? 

Maybe it is time to regroup and rethink and add something new to your school work?

good luck. I hope you get it solved in a way that is best for your family.


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## hmsteader71 (Mar 16, 2006)

I didn't really explain it well this morning. I was still pretty upset. Here's the deal. My dh and I have been married 9 years. He adopted my daughter when she was 10, she is now 17. My son, the 13-y-old who wants to go back to school, is his step-son. His son, the 11-y-old whom we put back in public, is my step-son. The 11-y-olds mother wanted him put back in public school. Now, we have custody of him, but she still has say in his education. I had tried for 4 years with him teaching him at home and he was so disruptive to the other two and had become unmanageable that I was literally worn down every day. I did not want to put him back but did not know any other way to go. Where I am his step-mom he doesn't think he has to do anything I tell him, even though his dad tells him on a daily basis that he does. Nothing we had tried would work with him. If it could be done we tried it. Even consistently tried things with him.
He respects no one. He does not respect himself, and he has no respect for women because of the way his mother trained him. We didn't get custody of him until he was 5. 
My 13-y-old feels shut off. He has one friend that he has been friends with since he was 6. Other than that, he doesn't have anyone his age to be with. The church we are in is 45 minutes away and we are active in it, but he doesn't want friends that are that far away. He wants to be able to play basketball and the schools here won't allow homeschoolers to play on public teams. So we signed him up and he is playing at the YMCA. He is a lazy student. If he can get out of doing it he will. I've tried telling him I don't think he will like it in public. He remembers it from 2nd grade and says he enjoyed it. 
I appreciate everyone's comments and am seriously considering all the advice that has been given. 
Ernie, what did you mean that you removed the influences that promoted a child-led environment and now have an adult-led?

Callieslamb,
You are correct. There's not much interest. I had to start work part-time (3hours a morning) to help start paying on our debts in order to become debt-free and so I am gone from 8:30 until 12:00. I have him get up and take care of the dogs and do the subjects he can on his own and then when I get home I help him with the subjects he has trouble with.
I tried Unit Studies at the beginning of the year because he did not like book work. The unit studies involved research and going on the internet and he didn't like that.
Honestly I think he is just difficult sometimes.

Tracy,
We have an issue right now with the two boys both being mouthy, and disrespectful and rude.
The 11-y-old will argue no matter what you do. He is going to have the last word.
The 13-y-old has become rebellious and disrespectful and rude and honestly sometimes I feel like I am living in a house with strangers.
I know people think we haven't tried disciplining them because they are still this way. But we have tried. We have tried now for almost 7 years with the 11-y-old and he is a battle almost every day. The 13-y-old didn't used to be this way. The more he saw the 11-y-old doing this stuff and nothing working the more he started in.

I do thank you guys for posting here. It has made me think and re-think.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

> I know people think we haven't tried disciplining them because they are still this way. But we have tried. We have tried now for almost 7 years with the 11-y-old and he is a battle almost every day. The 13-y-old didn't used to be this way. The more he saw the 11-y-old doing this stuff and nothing working the more he started in.


This tells me that there is a problem somewhere. Offhand (and remember, I don't know you, I'm just going by my experience -- YOU are the best person to judge what's going on!), I'd say that it's one of three things:

1) discipline has been inconsistent,
2) your authority is being undermined, or 
3) the child has deeper problems than can be addressed with discipline alone.

If it's number one, you must respond by being consistent. If the child is still spending time with his bio mom, good luck with that. If she's still angry enough at your DH for moving on (which it sounds like she was), she's likely going to be inconsistent in disciplining him AT THE VERY LEAST.

If it's two, it's probably one, as well -- because the person undermining your authority is probably bio mom. Now, if it's DH who is undermining you (even in a friendly way like, "come on, honey, let the kids have some fun before they have to do the dishes!), you've got bigger problems. If it's bio mom, put the kid back in PS, insist (as the custodial parents) that he have some professional help dealing with his anger (because this is what it is), and pray. If it's DH -- well, you need to address that from within your marriage. 

If it's three (and I suspect it is), you need to get to the root of it, because it's tearing your family apart. It is. Admit it. You sound like you're on your last nerve, and I wouldn't blame you. Especially if your son has begun treating you in this manner, too. Time to get out the garden shears and nip this -- now. If it *IS* #3, as I think it probably is, you need to find out what it is. Is he FAS? Did his mom drink or do drugs while pregnant with him? This is the worst case scenario, because FAS kids, quite often, CANNOT be taught any better -- they have no empathy, and cannot even begin to understand what they're doing wrong, much less want to change their behavior, and they have no concept of consequences. No amount of discipline or punishment changes this, either. The only way to help these kids lead anything approaching a "normal" life is professional counseling -- NOW. If you think that this is a possibility, DISCUSS IT WITH YOUR DH, and then, together, approach the Child/Family Health office (your family doctor should have contact info). They may be able to help you -- they'll certainly be able to guide you in what to do to find out if this is truly the problem.

If you're sure that drugs and/or alcohol were NOT used during his mother's pregnancy with him, the next step it to simply take him to the doctor and find out if he's deficient in anything dietarily (this will necessitate blood work and probably a urine sample), and discuss the possibility of an elimination diet with your doctor. This could very easily be a behavioral allergy, and the poor thing doesn't have any control. Sounds impossible, but trust me -- BTDT.

If all of this is ruled out, you have to consider two other possibilities -- psychological issues, or he's being or has been abused. Abuse includes everything from someone touching him inappropriately to his bio mom coaching him to do his worst at your house. Is it possible that he's acting out because of abuse? As parents, it's the absolute last thing we want to consider, but if we're at the end of our rope and unable to help our child in any other way, we must consider it. Is it possible, honestly? If you have any concerns AT ALL, get the child to a psychologist IMMEDIATELY. 

One last possibility is something called ODD -- Oppositional Defiance Disorder. Now, understand that this is WAAAAY over-diagnosed any more. Doctors quite often use it as a catch-all for uncontrollable children, including those who have simply never been taught better. However, there IS such a condition. It is relatively rare, and as I said, way over-diagnosed -- but it does exist. Read up on it. Again, an appointment with a child psychologist might help.

Honestly, you're probably better off not trying to homeschool through something like this. I know it hurts to not be able to do what you feel would be best for your kids, but be honest with yourself, PS is better than nothing, and if you're having to fight with them on every little detail, "nothing" is really what they're getting. 

Lastly, get yourself some alone-time, and heal yourself. Keep strong, because if your family doesn't have you strong and healthy, they've got nothing. You need to take care of yourself, and honestly, from the sound of your postings, you're exhausted and need some time to recharge.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

The 17 year old is almost an adult and your work is essentially done there. Well, as much as it ever is for a parent ... but she'll be on her own and dealing with her own life decisions and their consequences. 

You need a lot of work with the 11 year old. Homeschooling would get you that over time. I have no difficult children, so it's hard for me to really relate to a kid in that condition ... but I've seen them. Someone once remarked how well my wife's nieces and nephews always responded to me, even though I'm not really good with kids (I'm somewhat gruff) and they didn't respond well to others. These were some really difficult kids in occasionally bad family situations. I think a big part of it is that I am very clear as to my expectations with a child, I'm consistent, and I treat them with respect. I don't talk down to them, I discuss topics with them, I show them that their thoughts are of interest to me. If I'm responsible for the kid then what I say goes and there will be no argument. There isn't even room for an argument. I think kids naturally respond to adults who do those things, and if the expectations are clearly laid out then they will try to the best of their ability to meet those expectations.

Sounds like both your 13 year old and 11 year old are suffering from a child-led existence.

Remember the kid shows when we were growing up? (early 70's). There were actually parents in those shows who guided the kids. If you look at kid shows now with a critical eye, you'll notice that the parents, if not completely absent, are presented as an obstacle to get around. Even television commercials show adults and parents as something stodgy and "uncool" and the children are presented as "extreme" and "hip" in their rebelliousness. 

Television did not promote an adult-led atmosphere in our home, so we removed it. All of it. It's not necessary for our existence and plays little to no part in the education or entertainment of my children. We don't allow video games of any sort, though there are plenty of card and board games. Books are less scrutinized, but in general none of my children like reading much beyond non-fiction. They consume vast quantities of non-fiction, however, and we try to at least eyeball everything they are reading so we know where it's coming from.

The children have become disrespectful and rude because that's what they see at school. That's the way kids interact with each other on the playground and they think that it's the way they should interact with everyone. They get picked up, dropped off, delivered like a package to someone else who isn't going to interact with them anymore than necessary and so they turn to each other for interaction and guidance. They don't _need_ an adult anymore because their entire social support system has been replaced by peers and media. Thus the environment has become child-led, or as it is sometimes referred to as "peer-led". Regardless of how mature a child may be, they simply do not have the years of experience in dealing with social situations to compare to a well-grounded adult.

I would start by removing the television from your household. No excuses. No justifications. It's gone. It's in a box on the curb waiting for Goodwill to pick it up. It's not a punishment. It's a new way of living. If the stepmother has no custody, then I don't see how she has a say in his education. So she's out of the picture. Going to school so he can play basketball? That's laughable. No sport compares to your child's education and family life. He wants friends that are close by? Sounds like those friends may be part of the problem. Scrutinize them and remove them from the picture if necessary.

If you want to know more about the concepts of child-led existence, check out this book ... "Hold On to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers" by Gordon Neufeld. 

It takes a firm hand to raise a family. That's why God gave that task to adults.


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