# Maybe too efficient...fireplace redo



## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

This post was composed over a few hours to show/see progress....

If wrong place or better elsewhere, feel free to move.

After redoing the living room and making a new mantel (with a home made heat circulator). 
Been going thru my assortment of energy books and websites and did a few things suggested as well as a few that I re-engineered to suit my needs and curiosity.
1) The Heat-a-lator was (maybe still is) a brand name air circulator that drew air into the space between the fireplace enclosure and the firebox was stuffed with insulation. Well, pulled it all out and fashioned two retrofitted duct fans into the openings. Cold air goes in the bottom, hot air comes out the top...old idea, newer tech with the duct fans.
2) To prevent the FP from sucking the warm air out of the room and up the chimney, I used two access points in the basement walls that were at one point for water supply, but were abandoned. I used the two stubs as air intakes and piped them up to the front of the FP (should have taken a pic before I did the stonework...but they are there).
3) Scrren doors instead of glass...open, no difference. Closed, big difference. Fires burns slower, less radiant heat, more from the heat-a-lator...almost too much. Plus, the fire doesn't choke itself out (could also but the air inlets...will need to experiment more).
Second fire of the year started. 67 degrees...at 7:00pm

Also, put in two vents in the ceiling to 2nd floor to the kids rooms with similar duct fans to force the warm air up...I know it rises anyway, but I insulated the house so heavily that you actually feel a "thermocline" type change halfway up the stairs. Made it so tight that the air hasn't been able to flow naturally. upstairs at 67...turned thermostat to 60.

So, long and short...12'X24' (288 sq.ft' living space) is currently at 77 at a far distance from the FP. Can't sit withing 5 feet comfortably. Rest of the house steady at 67 (oil heat). Wife brought in her digital thermometer to see what was going on at 7:30. Slow to get going, but accurate.
Upstairs at 69
Now, gotta move some of that air better.
BTW, only put the thermometer in there a bit ago...it's been climbing quickly as the night gets colder.

Time to experiment with the fans next.

3'tall oscilating fan at room entrance blowing into the rest of the house (aka towards thermostat room, hallway etc.).

ooopps, 78 now 9:00 ... (upstairs at 72) figure it's going to hit over 80, as our Galalieo thermometer has maxed out at 80 3 hours ago and I'm in a t-shirt (for now).
Thermostat in other room at reads 69 with fans moving the air...no furnace activity (set at 67)

79.6 at 9:45 Thermostat reading 72 (about 30 feet away, across a halway and in the far corner of the dining room, thru 2 doorways) Also, considering we have 9.5' ceilings, heating was always an issue. (Upstairs now at 74)

Okay, kiddos in bed, fans going, livingroom (where fireplace is) is holding around 81, (upstairs holding at 74). 10:44 pm
Not too bad just from looking at a few older books and smackin' the ol noggin...BTW kiddos did't want to wear their jammies tonight...to warm...LOL!

Matt


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,
Probably a lot of people would like to have your problem 

A ceiling fan would keep the air in the fireplace room mixed up, and might also be a plus in the summer?

If you want more hot air upstairs, I'd look at replacing the duct booster fan with a "real" fan -- the little duct boosters I've played with don't move much air.

Gary


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

We have ceiling fans in the LR (where FP is), dining room, playroom/office and mudroom. First floor stays quite cozy, but I think I buttoned the house up a bit too tight to allow the natural transfer of heat to move upstairs.
The duct fans are working quite well (after a bit of tweaking today. not so much boosters as they are commercial fans (rack mounts) cut down to size and noise reduced (that took some time)) and right now LR is at 86, rest of first floor at 76 and upstairs at 74.
Furnace has not kicked on in quite some time...LOL!
I think I just need to do a bit more rethinking on the flow thru and up and down. It's a rewarding project with 10" of snow on the ground...
Matt


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

do you have a way for the air to return from upstairs?


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## artificer (Feb 26, 2007)

This reminds me of when I was a kid back in the mid to late 70's. Parents built a new house, and dad decided to make a wood heater. Split level ranch with the heater on the ground floor. Heater was a double wall box with rear stoking door and front glass doors.

We came back to the house one time when it was -20degF out, and the heater had died. Dad stoked a good fire in the heater, and a half hour later the temps were in the 80's in the upper level. The patio door was opened to let some of the heat out, and it froze mom's plants on the dining room table, but everything else was toasty warm.

I'll agree with others that if you have a major source of heat, you have to have good airflow both to and from the remote areas, or you will have both too hot and too cold rooms at the same time. In the split level house, if the furnace fan wasn't on, you would have stratification between the levels, and upwards of 15degF temp differences.

Michael


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

WWW, yes, besided the three flloor vents (each measyers 14x14), there is also the stairway in the hall/foyer. Am thinking of adding a few more vents.
Granted, plenty warm, just wanting to spread it around a little more evenly.

Matt


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

Glad you have plenty of heat. My question is the purpose of the insulation you pulled out. Is it part of safety barrier to keep overheating the wall behind it? 






Roadking said:


> This post was composed over a few hours to show/see progress....
> 
> If wrong place or better elsewhere, feel free to move.
> 
> ...


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

No, that insulation is still in place. Former owners had stopped using the fireplace and opted for propane wall mounts, and just stuffed insulation into the vents of the heat surround to prevent any draft or cold from the masonry fireplace.
We had the fireplace and chimney inspected prior to purchase, so there would not be a safety issue.
Inspector had mentioned that to be a functioning heat circulator, insulation was to be removed. Former owners also stuffed insulation down the chimney from the roofline. Obviuosly, we removed that as well...Lol!
Matt


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Friend of mine has the heat a lator. Any tips for him?




Roadking said:


> No, that insulation is still in place. Former owners had stopped using the fireplace and opted for propane wall mounts, and just stuffed insulation into the vents of the heat surround to prevent any draft or cold from the masonry fireplace.
> We had the fireplace and chimney inspected prior to purchase, so there would not be a safety issue.
> Inspector had mentioned that to be a functioning heat circulator, insulation was to be removed. Former owners also stuffed insulation down the chimney from the roofline. Obviuosly, we removed that as well...Lol!
> Matt


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Use the fans to pull air into the bottom, not to push out the top. This way the air is forced to the fireplace/heated plate instead of just being drawn thru. Not sure I'm stating that the best way, but makes a big difference.
The fan units I used have settings; low, med and high...I prefer low to medium (when FP is really generating heat)...high doesn't allow the air to warm as much as I like.
Aside from that, basic fireplace skills, etc. When set up right, they can make loads of heat.

Matt


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