# Cold climate - should we insulate the barn?



## sahmoffour (Nov 4, 2010)

We live in central Alberta and are getting ready to order our barn package to build this spring. Our winters get pretty cold here, avg highs in our coldest month is 20F, avg low is 1F but it can get as cold as -40F/C. Our barn is for chickens, turkeys, ducks and our LaMancha does (we're starting out with 2). All animals will be in the same building but have their own pens. 

For those of you that have the same climate as us, did you insulate your barn? Or wish that you would have? The turkeys will be butchered before winter time, and I know the chickens will be okay except may need a heat lamp when it gets really cold, I haven't looked into the ducks yet, but my main worry is if the goats will be ok. Especially if we have any kidding in February when it's still almost just as cold.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

If it's going to be a metal barn I would go with insulation. We have a metal barn & live in the north eastern part of Michigan & I wish sometimes we had insulated ours. I still may insulate the goats side(it was an addition) since sometimes in the coldest part of winter I think it's warmer outside than inside.

Ducks will do fine in the cold as long as they have a place out of the wind & can stay clean, I give mine a tub even in the coldest part of winter to take a bath at least once a week.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I live in weather like that. I insulated the chicken coop. And when my baby goats were born I was so glad to have an insulated, heated outbuilding to move them into. I don't like heat lamps with hay/straw. They were shivering the day after they were born so I moved them and mom into a tempered controlled outbuilding. I used a milk house heater with a thermostat and kept the temp at 30 degrees. They had to stay in there then until spring...which was fine. I would let them out a few times a day for an hour or so. And since it wasn't 20 below in there I was able to spend much more time with them and they are just so friendly now. 
We do not live there anymore. Our buildings now are very old, drafty and leaky. We do the best we can to make repairs. THE BEST thing we started was doing the "deep bedding method". That keeps our main barn with the preggos mini donk and the 3 mini goats at no lower than 9 degrees! Even when it's 17 below outside. No stink. Big clean up job in the spring though...If we can do it anyone can! I really mean that.  I am also doing the deep bedding with the chickens and ducks and that is keeping them warmer. THe chicken coop we did insulate. We have lost some hens to the cold  Even with the insulation. But they must have been unhealthy to begin with. The ducks do better in the winter than the chickens. I don't worry too much about them...dry bedding in a corner and an insulated dog house stuffed with used hay. The insulated dog house is one of the plastic barn looking things. I don't know how great it is and the ducks prefer to slepp on the cement anyway. da!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I must admit that I don't know how you all survive those winters. Seriously. We didn't even have a freeze here in south Texas this winter, and it was just fine with me. :nanner:


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## goatkid (Nov 20, 2005)

I live in Montana and we can have cold winters. I do not have insulated shelters for the goats. I straw the houses well when it's subzero. I have stock tank heaters to keep the water open. I've found that if it's not windy or snowing, some of the goats actually choose to sleep outside even in subzero weather on hay they have pulled from their feeder. We usually breed our goats to start kidding in March when it's starting to get warmer. One year I was going to be out of town part of October so I bred some of the does in September. The week several of them kidded, it was 17 below at night. We were there for the kiddings and had 14 baby goats in rubbermaid totes all over the house. It would have been nice to have a heated barn for the babies, but I really can't see having a heated barn for the goats with fuel costs what they are. It's just easier to breed them to kid later in the year.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

here in WI we don't insulate for the goats at all. Good dry bedding and a windproof shed is all they have and they do quite well.
We also try to breed for later kiddings. 
We tried insulating the chicken coop but the last couple years we had them overwinter we left the hatch open to the outside anyway so any insulating we did was moot.


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## Dreamgoat Annie (Nov 28, 2011)

When we lived in east-central Minnesota, John banked the north and west sides of our small barns with snow as he bucketed out areas for the animals to go outside. Banked snow is great insulation and it's free. He also did this against our house. One day I about jumped out of my skin when I glanced up and there was a black, furry face peering in the window (these windows were set pretty high on our walls). It was one of our dogs standing atop the banked snow, looking in.

We also advocate using blankets and kid coats instead of heat lamps. I know, personally, three people who burned down barns using heat lamps.

Sue


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

It used to get cold here, down to -35. It doesn't seem to anymore. 

My recommendation is to make the barn windproof as possible, especially on the north, west and eastern sides if it is a three sided design. Ours was wood and very drafty, its eastern and western sides were partly open. When the weather got very bad, I would close off nearly all of the eastern side; the western side's opening was fairly small. It wasn't insulated; I think insulation would cause many more problems than it would solve. Ventilation is essential. I also did not use heat lamps, blankets, etc and never lost any kids or older goats to cold.

It is critical to use the deep bedding method in cold climates so that the warmth of the composting bedding and manure can keep them warm and also to provide them with all the hay they want (not extra grain) because the fermentation of the hay in their rumen is what keeps them warm. Also, it's a good idea to bring them warm water if you don't have those water heaters. I used to just carry down a bucket of almost boiling water, pour that onto the cold bucket's contents. When it hits the ice it cools down to drinking temp. Having to drink cold water or worse, eat snow, makes it much harder on them.


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## sahmoffour (Nov 4, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your responses, seems like it's quite a mixed lot and I'm still unsure LOL. We're building a new barn, so I really want to get it right the first time. Insulating will add $1800 onto the cost of the barn so I don't want to pay that unless it's needed. If we don't insulate the whole barn I was thinking we'd at least do the milking parlour.

I'll definitely do the deep bedding whether it's insulated or not. I grew up on a dairy farm and that's the way we bedded out cows all winter too, same with the chickens. I do worry about ventilation though, I definitely don't want to cause more problems than I fix. I also worry about using heat lamps and fires, which is why I was thinking maybe insulating would keep it warm enough that I could get by without them and maybe just use hot water bottles for kids instead.

Decisions, decisions.....


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

If you can have an insulated, minimally heated room where you keep a hose for supplying water, that is ideal. Might as well make it your milkroom so your hands don't freeze, too. Always nice to have an area that is warm to put ailing birds/goats. 

Otherwise, I wouldn't insulate anything. With deep bedding and snug housing, they should be just fine as long as they are healthy otherwise, and well fed (a full rumen makes for a warm goat, keep hay in front of them 24/7) 


With your chickens, they won't even need a heat lamp. As long as they can cover their toes with their breast feathers, they should be fine. For roosts, use 2"x4"s, and mount them so that the bigger side is 'up'. If I lived in that climate I'd dub all my chickens for sure, no matter what breed they are. We get some frostbitten combs here in lower MI, and we're not that cold on average.


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## sahmoffour (Nov 4, 2010)

We are going to plumb water into the milkhouse area, and now that you mention it, next to the milkhouse parlor is a small walled off pen for sick animals and a spare kidding pen. It would be easy to also insulate that one small room as well, it's only a 5' x 10' room so wouldn't cost much more since it's already sharing a wall with the milk parlor which will already be insulated.

To be honest I've never even heard of dubbing before but just looked it up. My mom had chickens my whole life, usually about 30 at a time and always Isa Browns. Their coop was insulated though, but I don't remember ever having too many problems with frostbite. I'm getting a mixture of Red Rock Cross and Isa Browns. Is dubbing very painful for them?


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Wait, I forgot: are you going to dam raise or bottle raise the kids? I dam raised; the dams let the kids snuggle up to them. I don't know if older goats will let bottle babies do this? If not, you might want to make a straw or hay bale shelter for them inside the barn, such as three bales arranged into a C shape with a piece of plywood or something as a roof. Speaking of which....I sort of used the hay that was already being stored in the barn as insulation. :-D


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## sahmoffour (Nov 4, 2010)

I was planning on dam raising and then starting to separate at night at 2 weeks old to start milking some for ourselves. I think that's right? I thought I could maybe put a little enclosure like a dog house inside the kid pen with some laundry bottles filled with hot water to help them stay warm if it got really cold. The straw bale shelter is a great idea though! Also for the doe pen, if it did get really cold I could always put a couple bales along the walls of the pen to help insulate.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Oh, once they're a few weeks old the kids find a warm place to make a dogpile (kidpile??). They should be ok.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Growing up in MT none of our barns and sheds were insulated. Stone barn, log sheds. Neighbors had the same setup ... some stone, some pole frame, later metal sheds ... the only barn that I know of that was insulated was a fancy horse place that had an indoor arena and one section of stalls that were insulated for show horses that were hauled south to show.

I knew people that raised cattle, horses, chickens and hogs and I don't know of anyone that ever had insulated barns although a couple of ranches had a barn or shed that was banked on one side, built into a hill.

Up until I was 10 or 12 years old we didn't have electricity, so no additional heat either and I can't remember ever having a real problem with livestock and the cold weather. Basically, if they can stay dry and out of the wind, they do fine.


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## sahmoffour (Nov 4, 2010)

I also wanted to clarify that we're building a 24' by 32' pole barn. We plan on making a ceiling in it to help hold in heat, not sure of the height yet. Might be a dumb question but do you put plywood on and then sheet metal or would you just put sheet metal on?

ETA: I should reword that, if we were to sheet metal the outside, then on the inside put plywood up on all the walls and the ceiling but not insulate, would that help make it a bit warmer but still allow adequate ventilation?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I live in Alaska--It does get that cold. Wind proof and dry I do provide small area for the goats to warm in. Taggared bales of straw and and tarps Sorta goat tents in the barn. On super cold days they tem to snug in groups in these tents. --No heat provided. 

I have lots of birth in the winter. I have inside pens in my house and I try to limit the does for just 5 days in. That sometimes means that births have happend it the bitter cold. Lots of night trips in the winter to the barn. Its works.


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