# Windows 98 se wont boot (Book recomedations Please)



## Brian N.E Ohio (May 11, 2002)

This problem arises from a failed software installation. While installing a program from a disc for the wifes digital camera my computer started to restart by itself. I managed to remove the disc from the computer before it rebooted, or so I thought but now it wont start in normal mode. It hangs up on either the welcome to windows screen and wont move any further or it will go to a black screen with 7 options on how to start the computer. Either normal, witch it wont. Safe, witch it will or about 5 command line versions.

So much for the problem. I would like to attack the problem in a manner that another problem was solved for me while the unit was under warranty. I had a factory tech on the phone take me to someplace in the software where I was allowed to change a date to a time before the system was corrupted thus restoring the settings. Now I was a new computer owner and scared to death at the time so I have no real memory as to where I was in the software or what I was doing, I just followed directions on the phone.

So far I have run scandisk in safe mode, and restored the system registery to an earlier time before the problem began. Similer to what I had done before but not the same because I only had a choice of 5 dates rather than entering a random earlier date. So far no help.

Now my question, Does any body have an idea where I was in the software or have a recomendation for a book on repairing windows in general or 98 in particular. I own Windows 98 Companion and it has been no help.

I am typing this from a public computer now at the library so my computer time will be severly limited for now but I will try to check in once a day if I can.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Compac 5868
windows 98se

Oh, I hope to have an XP machine sometime this summer and I will try to convert this pos to linux. When it ran correctly it was always a pain.


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Brian N.E Ohio said:


> Oh, I hope to have an XP machine sometime this summer and I will try to convert this pos to linux. When it ran correctly it was always a pain.


If you like 98's stability and ease of fixing it when it chokes, you'll love XP.

Can't help you fix your Windoze, and I'm not familiar with your computer, but a quick web search says it's a 600 mHz Athlon and came with 128MB. That's fast enough for a full Linux distro with KDE interface, like PCLinuxOS. Why not ditch Win98 and install Linux, and forget about XP? You'll have to add some memory, but for such an old computer, that's cheap, maybe even free.


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## comfortablynumb (Nov 18, 2003)

windows 98 is a dead duck.... get a live linux cd like ubuntu or pclinuxos and salvage all your files you want off the drive.

then do a reinstall, preferably with a HD reformat.

I used to have to do do that to 98 allllll the time.

youll dig XP, far more stable and self correcting.

for now.... I think your OS core is hopelessly corrupted (as 98 was prone to do now and then).

your computer is good enough to run a lightweight linux live CD....
youll be able to surff the net and email and whatever you like.

slowly, on a live cd but itll work.

to get XP, youll have to buy a second hand disk i dont think you can buy it new anymore.

Of course there is always warez.... alot of decent fully working hacked up version out now, since people are running like a cat on fire from Vista.


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## comfortablynumb (Nov 18, 2003)

if you can download and burn a CD, get the freeware tool "hirens boot CD"

it has some good repair programs on it that might work on 98.

UBD498 is s=out there somewhere too, its good for fixing 98 problems.
http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/

here is the ISO to make a hirens boot CD. 
[ame]http://rapidshare.com/files/74216843/Hiren_s.BootCD.9.3.iso[/ame]
and the home page
http://www.hiren.info/pages/bootcd


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Brian N.E Ohio said:


> So far I have run scandisk in safe mode, and restored the system registery to an earlier time before the problem began. Similer to what I had done before but not the same because I only had a choice of 5 dates rather than entering a random earlier date. So far no help.
> 
> Now my question, Does any body have an idea where I was in the software or have a recomendation for a book on repairing windows in general or 98 in particular. I own Windows 98 Companion and it has been no help.


In all probability your driver installation copied a custom Windows component file over an existing native file. There's no telling which file that may be so you will need to repair your entire Windows installation.

Win98 repair is normally done by running the install CD through. It's pretty straightforward but there are a few issues to keep in mind.

* If your Windows is really sick and keeps rebooting you may not be able to install without booting from a Win98 installation CD first. Insert the CD, boot, and select booting from the CD to a command prompt. After doing that you will need to navigate and execute commands manually from the DOS prompt.

* If you have a Win98 preinstall then you should run your install from your hard drive, not from a CD. You probably have a preinstall since you have a Win98 Companion CD. You can tell for sure if you have a preinstall by the presence of the c:\windows\options\cabs directory. If you have it then go to that directory (or sometimes c:\windows\options) and execute the setup.exe program to begin the reinstallation.

* If you have a full install CD (rather than an upgrade CD or preinstall) then Win98 won't install over an existing operating system without a minor adjustment. Win98 determines if you have an existing operating system by the presence of the win.com file, found in the c:\windows directory. You should rename it to something like win1.com to allow the reinstall. To begin the install navigate to the d:\win98 directory on the CD and execute the setup.exe program.

* During the install it will probably suggest installing Windows in the c:\windows.000 directory. You should edit that to c:\windows to retain your settings. If you allow Windows to install in the c:\windows.000 directory you will be installing Windows from scratch and make a lot of unnecessary work for yourself.

* Win98 is not good about retaining drivers during a reinstall, so you may need to hunt them up from the hardware vendor web sites. In your case that's a positive feature, since it's likely that a driver was the culprit.

Good luck!


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## comfortablynumb (Nov 18, 2003)

http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php
http://distrowatch.com/


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## Brian N.E Ohio (May 11, 2002)

Spent most of my time today researching different linux systems. I printed the posts and will get back here the next day the library is open. Do I understand the the linuxos system can run from a cd and doesnt need an install to the harddrive? Gee, I could try it for cheap and can it if I dont like it or it wont run on my machine. Sounds like a plan to me!
I have an ubuntu cd on the way and I will probably pony up the couple dollars for the pclinuxso cd.
Keep the ideas coming please, I am in trouble here.


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Brian N.E Ohio said:


> Do I understand the the linuxos system can run from a cd and doesnt need an install to the harddrive? Gee, I could try it for cheap and can it if I dont like it or it wont run on my machine. Sounds like a plan to me!


Some Linux distros can run from a live CD. Some have separate live & install CD's, and some (like PCLinuxOS) have one CD that does both. It's very handy to be able to test how well it works on a computer without having to install, although by far the most common problem is winmodems & winprinters that work only with Windows.



> I have an ubuntu cd on the way and I will probably pony up the couple dollars for the pclinuxso cd.


PCLinuxOS seems to be the hands-down favorite of folks who try both, and is my preference as well. For one thing, it uses the KDE interface, which is easier for Windows users than Gnome, which Ubuntu uses. If you have access to a broadband connection and a CD burner, you can download it: http://www.pclinuxos.com


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

Save yourself a whole lot of time/aggrevation and get a more modern system with XP. Ebay, IBM.com and many others offer very affordable 2-3 year old off-lease business PCs with XP.

Although I don't know much about you - from what I've read in this thread, I highly doubt you're a "computer geek" - which means Linux is probably not the best choice for you. I like Linux and I run Linux - but an XP machine is a better desktop system for the average user.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

I like PClinux, however you are going to find it wont run real well from live cd with only 128mb ram. Puppy Linux will. Puppy runs on just about any computer that orignially came with win98. Bigger distributions, wont necessarily do so. Puppy with its lightweight JWM windows manager is as easy to navigate as KDE and much faster to load on older hardware. It isnt however always as automated. The people at PClinux have put lot effort into their automation scripts. Its not perfect though. I booted from live cd version of PClinux and it wanted to install internet connection. Well I had a softmodem, it found it and recognized it, said it would need to download the driver. How exactly does one download on dialup without a functional modem? The script however wouldnt let me go on without installing some internet connection. I then backtracked and told it to install ethernet. My motherboard has it built in. It did and the script was satisfied though I cant connect through ethernet port. I just did it to satisfy the script. Should have been an option to not install an internet connection. Or even better any free linux software modem drivers should have been included on the cd. There arent that many.

As to cut down versions of XP. Yep they are out there. Not legal, they are warez. Some very good, some not. I particularly liked one called TinyXP_beast_edition. Its hard to find now. But it was very small (like 150mb download) and very quick to install and very stable once installed. But for creator to get it to that size lots of stuff was cut out. I cant get printer to work since some system the driver needs is gone and for some reason they axed the standard modem driver so it maybe the only modern operating system not able to use a hardware modem. However since I dont take it online and just need it to run couple windows only pieces of software, it works for me. I could probably track down missing bits if I really cared. I tried some later less small versions and they had the missing pieces but I didnt like them as well, wasnt as stable as beast_edition.

Oh by way the last officially released Puppy is 3.01. Some people have had few problems on older hardware since it was a newer kernel. You might want to go back to the older 2.14 to 2.17 versions. They were absolutely stable and worked on anything I tried them on. There are also all sorts of "unofficial" versions of Puppy where different folk have modified it to suit their own needs then offered it to others on the forum. Some of these are really good, some maybe not so great. There is one based on Puppy 2.10 or 2.12 I think that has Kppp and K3B but not the whole KDE desktop and comes with Opera browser. Like 50mb download. It was great. I stole the K3B from it for my current install of Puppy. Still bloated, but K3B is best cd/dvd burner gui available under linux. Took the guy some work to make it function independently of KDE.


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## comfortablynumb (Nov 18, 2003)

I'm actually very very very impressed with puppy linux. 
after playing with it for a few days, I actually forgot I was surfing the net on ram power alone, its that fast.

you can do an HD install of puppy, and I bet it would rock as a main OS. The program with puppy pretty much do anything you like.

by far, it has the best display quality so far Ive seen. and it uses next to no resources at all.

I watched a whole DVD download of a movie running puppy, reading the AVI off the HD.
very cool. I suggest you go with this one over PClinuxOS just because its more hands off and automated, in the sense you only have to yes or no to its questions.

you do have to mount the HD and other drives to acess them but thats simply opening the "drives" window, and clicking on the "on" button beside the listed drive.... it turns green and its mounted (seen by linux so you can access it) and then click the folder button to explore the drive.

linux is only slightly different than windows to use.... puppy is impressively simple and from a live CD, starts up MUCH faster than the others.

I can see running a PC totally with puppy on the HD and nothing else.
the puppy home pages have lots of custom free software written just for puppy too.

since the .ISO DL is only @80MB, you surely can dl and burn a copy at the library....
if they have burners and cable, or DSL.

you can buy a CD with puppy on it for next to nothing right from the website.

I think puppy blows ubuntu away.... no contest.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

puppy is my main OS, has been for few years now, and yes it can do anything the big distributions can do, but it can take some tinkering sometimes to get some software you want to add to working. Puppy is pretty complete as it comes for average home user (elderly friend is still using Puppy 0.97 or something like that I installed on his win95 computer long ago, but its still quite stable and does what he needs), but lots of linux software out there to customize with. Usually the Puppy packages work off the bat, but whether a certain software package will work on a certain version of Puppy, well sometimes trial and error is par for the course. Remember nobody is making money off Puppy, its all volunteer labor by enthusiasts, so sometimes stuff like pre-compiled packages dont get updated or made easy to find. Sometimes the wikki info doesnt get updated and so on.

Its great for anybody with any sense of how any operating system is installed and works, but it does confuse the total noob (and those with a short attention span) cause it is able to be installed and used in so many different ways. For example just hardrive install, do you want the full uncompressed install or do you want the compressed "poor mans" install. (The full uncompressed is better for ancient computers with very limited ram, I've gotten 2.14 version to work halfway decent on as little as 32mb ram, about same as win98 can do.) Or do you want to install it to flash or to zip or the old super floppy drive. Or the the still beta Puppy 4.00 will install to internal flash as used on the new mini Asus eeepc laptop. Puppy can even run from cdrw or dvdrw. Yep loads Puppy into ram then writes back any changes to the cdrw/dvdrw on shutdown. 

Trouble is explaining this to somebody used to windows "only one way to do anything" model where every decision is made for you during install. However luckily just about anybody can run Puppy from live cd mode, set your computer to boot from cdrom , stick in Puppy cd, and reboot and enjoy, then if they are interested enough, there is plenty help on beginners help forum at Puppy community forum website: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?sid=4266525a3155feebec7a7e9cc671ab37 Even if you cant be bothered with doing a basic search for your question, nobody gets too upset and are usually willing to just explain things over yet once again. If you cant be bothered to even learn most basic stuff then better to stick with windows or pick a linux distribution with windows type attitude. Xandros Linux, for example, will not ask you anything just install as it sees best.


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## Brian N.E Ohio (May 11, 2002)

I am still working on this after the holiday break when the library was closed.

backwoodsman7, I still would like to repair this system if possible because there are some files that I dont have current backups for. I will likely ditch win 98se and install a version of Linux. I have over the years added 2 more 128 mb memory sticks so ram should not be a problem.

comfortablynumb, I am not familier with the term HD reformat, Witch takes me to another question, How do I do a complete reformat of my harddrive to make it as empty as new. I know there is a c drive ,a d drive and 1 or more partitions that need to be removed for a clean reinstall of the os wether its windows or linux.
XP I have been told may be available from major manufacturers as a special request or a custom build. There is also a small local computer shop that will build with XP so that shouldnt be a problem.

I really dont think the os is toasted. I think I damaged something in the boot sector when I was trying to shut the thing down. The first program I ever installed prompted me thrue the entire operation and prompted me to restart the computer to make the changes effective so I did, it never prompted me to remove the program disk do I didnt. When it booted up of course it booted from the program disk and overwrote the start up sequence (bios?). I needed a total reformat of the hard drive to repair that, my only major gaff in about 8 years of care and feeding of my PC.
So this time I imediatly pushed the button to eject the program cd and it didnt open so I tried to shut down the power with the main switch but before the power shut down the drive door opened and I removed the disk so I think one of those activities has caused my problem since it hasent worked correctly since.

Nevada, The windows 98 companion is a 660 page text from microsoft telling us how windows 98 is the greatest thing since sliced bread. No good for trouble shooting. DOS is a mystery to me unless I have a specific comand or can choose from a list commands.

I will print the replies and reply to any I missed tomorrow.
Thanks 

I am going to check out puppy with my last few minutes online.


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## Brian N.E Ohio (May 11, 2002)

comfortablynumb, I just reread my post, HD hard drive... DUHHH.

Thanks


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Brian N.E Ohio said:


> backwoodsman7, I still would like to repair this system if possible because there are some files that I dont have current backups for. I will likely ditch win 98se and install a version of Linux. I have over the years added 2 more 128 mb memory sticks so ram should not be a problem.


When you boot from a Linux live CD, you can go find the files you want to back up, and copy them to a USB flash drive, or a CD if you have a CD burner. Then, before you wipe the hard drive, make a copy of your backup so you have 2 separate copies of everything you want to save, which is always a good idea.

So you have 384MB if I understand correctly. That's plenty of RAM for PCLinuxOS. Puppy Linux is great if a bigger distro won't run well on your hardware, but if your computer has the resources, you can't beat PCLinuxOS for getting up & running with a minimum of hassle.



> How do I do a complete reformat of my harddrive to make it as empty as new.


 PCLinuxOS will use existing partitions, or let you make changes manually, or do it for you automatically. If I recall correctly, Windows 98 will do the same.

I don't recall whether you said if you're on dialup. The biggest problem you're likely to encounter is if your modem is a winmodem, not a hardware modem. But on a system that old, there's a better chance it's a hardware modem.


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## 2007glory (Jul 27, 2007)

Not to be a thread drifter, but I would like to try out linux. I feel that with a little tutoring, I could get it installed and configured properly! I'm not completely computer dumb, I know how to reformat the HD and how to burn cds, install windows (ME particurally) My current computer is a HP pavilion E-PC. It obviously has Windows ME on it with 255mb of ram. It has a 9gb HD. I have quite a few issues with ME, and would like to find an alternative! If some one could possibly PM me and tutor me through installing PCLinuxOs, I'd greatly appreciate it. THANKS!!!! Cheryl


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## comfortablynumb (Nov 18, 2003)

> Puppy can even run from cdrw or dvdrw. Yep loads Puppy into ram then writes back any changes to the cdrw/dvdrw on shutdown.


that aspect of puppy, I found really COOL. and it works too, it treats a DVDRW like a normal HD.
a RW HD and OS on one DVD-RW, I dont know how much more lightweight/flexable you would want.


> I am not familier with the term HD reformat, Witch takes me to another question, How do I do a complete reformat of my harddrive to make it as empty as new. I know there is a c drive ,a d drive and 1 or more partitions that need to be removed for a clean reinstall of the os wether its windows or linux.


if you want to copy all your data off your hard drive, puppy linux can do that very easy, then once the Hard drive has been picked clean of your goodies and youved saved it all on cdrs, what you would need to do is run a CD like Hirens boot & recovery disk, and do a thorough scan of the HD for errors, then repartition the drive and format it for an XP instal
now installing linux.... I think the HD needs to be formatted and patritioned differently, hermit would know better than I would. but if your going to put XP on the disk, you would do well with a copy of hirens cboot CD, as it has a billion and then some diagnostics and tools to fix repair and prep almost any HD.
it has most of the major HD manufacturers HD setup programs on it, like maxtor, seagate and western digital, ect ect.
Hirens CD is free and runs on a dos-level.



> XP I have been told may be available from major manufacturers as a special request or a custom build. There is also a small local computer shop that will build with XP so that shouldnt be a problem.


Xp is free, on the net..... I have 5 different install disks that are unattended,and automaticly register themselves, plus pass the windows authentication process that lets the OS update itself.

microsnot stopped making XP when they came out with the vista trainwreck.... so dont feel bad using a pirated copy, microsnot made a massive error so they need to pay dearly for it until they refund every vista buyers money back.
lol

seriously.... XP is easy to find for free, dont waste the money.



> When it booted up of course it booted from the program disk and overwrote the start up sequence (bios?).


unless you were installing a new OS this is impossible. a program for a digital camera just cant corrupt the OS or the BIOS on startup with the CD in the drive....

Unless its a pirated copy with a bug on it.

there is no way, leaving a program install disk in the CD drive on reboot could damage the bios or the OS.

I think the OS was corrupted before you even started the instll of whatever program you were working with, and it just hit one to many errors to deal with when it reboooted. 98 did that now and then, thats the good thing about XP, if it sees there is a serious problem it will correct itself. if not you can go into safe mode and system restore back to a later date when you are sure it was working ok.....

which blows alot of installed stuff out of whack but does fix the problem, you just have to clean up the mess you get (broken links and invalid registry junk) and a prog called "tuneup utilities" will do that in a few sweet easy clicks.

a program called "the ultimate troubleshooter" is also a must have, it analyzes the running processes and tells you what each one is, if ots needed, if itss bad or if you should leave it alone, plus a whole lot of other stuff. its a great tool to have handy when repairing and cleaning up a PC.

(and they are all free in the right place. Pm me, I have new working copies with keys)

quite possibly, you could have a bad power supply thats starving the CPU out and making it freeze and error all the time.



> DOS is a mystery to me unless I have a specific comand or can choose from a list commands.


when I saay "dos-level" I dot mean a command line input, I mean a baseline unning dos level program in 16 colors with multiple choice menu input, you operate with the arrow, enter, esc and F keys.

there is no real need to work in command lines on a blackscreen when you can just as easily use a simple program interface, such as Hirens boot CD.
(which has antivirus and spyware removers on it too. its a pretty amazing cd)

if the OS os not corrupt you can also do an extraction of the OS and convert it to an installation CD.... handy to do when the computer you buy doesnt come with an OS install disk.

Cheryl if I were you I'd download and burn a PUPPY Linux live cd, and play with it for a while....
the puppy homepages can feed you as much info as you need on it..

http://www.puppylinux.com/
http://www.puppylinux.org


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Most live linux cds including Puppy include GParted which is about as easy of a tool to manipulate partitions and reformat as exists. 

I think reason none of us are dealing with helping you repair your win98 is none of use still have it installed nor have used it in ages. It probably can quite easily be repaired. Still lot info on web, plust there is a win98 forum at www.computing.net

Here is another site, http://www.techsupportforum.com/mic...-support/134230-windows-98-boot-problems.html


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## Brian N.E Ohio (May 11, 2002)

Thanks for the replies, I'll be back tomorrow.

Heres an interesting link for others considering chooseing linux
http://makethemove.net/index.php


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## Brian N.E Ohio (May 11, 2002)

http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT3269115798.html


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## Brian N.E Ohio (May 11, 2002)

here's a quiz to help decide wich linux may be most usefull to you.

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4531398631.html


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## Brian N.E Ohio (May 11, 2002)

> unless you were installing a new OS this is impossible. a program for a digital camera just cant corrupt the OS or the BIOS on startup with the CD in the drive....


The program in question then was a Macafee security program that went by "Guard dog". After that incident all I ever seen after the welcome to windows screen was the splash shield for the program. It never booted again. It was only my opinion that the start up sequence may have been overwritten. Perhaps somthing may have been inserted before the startup. I had a compac tech helping me and he couldnt figure it out either, I didnt have many personal files at the time so we did a reformat and reinstalled the os.




> if not you can go into safe mode and system restore back to a later date when you are sure it was working ok.....


I have restored the system regestry to an earlier date with no affect. I know I have restored the system by entering a random date to cure an earlier problem but I cant find that page in the software now. I believe that would be a likely cure for this problem as well... just cant find it. The regestry restore gave me only a choice of 5 earlier dates to choose from, not the same thing. If anyone knows where that point is in win98se please let me know, thats my first choice for likely cures.

I will download and burn most or all of the of the utilitie cds but I cant do it now. The library cant burn cds and my puter dosent have the drivers installed to recognise a jumpdrive.

Bad power supply? Maybe, that might be worth a trip to the shop just to find out. 

HermitJohn,
I will check out the forums but I am starting to run out of patients. I will likely take it to the shop on monday If its not fixed by then.

Thanks


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Brian N.E Ohio said:


> Bad power supply? Maybe, that might be worth a trip to the shop just to find out.


A bad power supply can do all sorts of strange things, but this sort of thing would be pretty tough for a power supply to do. If it were the power supply, one wouldn't expect it to be as consistent as this problem apparently is. I think it's a software problem, not hardware.

For the price of a shop visit, you can buy a power supply just to test it. Better yet, if you suspect the power supply, put a meter on it at one of the drive connectors and see what it's putting out. But I don't think it's the power supply.


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## Brian N.E Ohio (May 11, 2002)

Well I took it to the shop today to find out for shure. I got tired of fooling with it. It went down on christmas eve.
I have had a great deal of help here and I thank all who replied. I will be better prepared before it gets a chance to happen again. All utilitie cds will be downloaded and burned asap.

Backdwoodsman7,
I am thinking that the problem was caused during the suprise restart. I didnt ask for it to restart. A failing power supply could certainly be a culprit.

I will post what I find out from home when I get it back. Maybe this post can keep another member from a trip to the shop.

Please folks, burn all utility cds now before you need them.

Thanks


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

I certainly hope your shop is an honest one. 

When the dust settles, you've probably wasted many frustrating hours, will have been without a PC for more than a week, and will no doubt be out some money. 

With a machine as old as yours, running Windows 98 - I can't say that I agree with your choice to have the system repaired and continue to rely on the system the future. Unless original parts have been replaced, every moving part of your system is "end of life" - and even non-moving parts are questionable at this point (like the motherboard).

I certainly hope all works out well for your system - and you do get some year(s) out of it.



Brian N.E Ohio said:


> Well I took it to the shop today to find out for shure. I got tired of fooling with it. It went down on christmas eve. ...


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## comfortablynumb (Nov 18, 2003)

my sisters tower just blew a power supply and was dong just about what yours is doing... partly booting and stopping.
a new PS screwed in and bingo its up running like a new one again.

a security program, mmmmmmm yeah maybe, if its wanting to run some complex scaan before the OS bootup...
it might not be freezing it might be thinking.... ive seen that happen too!

leave it sit there for a while and see if it eventually starts up, the new program might be doing a deep scan or something in the pre boot up phase.

I dunno.

if you can get it booted up in safe mode, you should be able to uninstall that last program, and I think Hirens bootCD has an uninstaller on it and a few other cleaners to get rid of any stuff it leaves behind.

its always good to start with the simple stuff..... like the PS or just reseating the memory and cards in the case.

make sure the CPU isnt caked with dust and is quickly overheating on you!


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