# Young people and self-reliance



## Pets4me (Oct 6, 2009)

My son will turn 21 in a couple of weeks. Because I rarely see him nowadays, I took him his birthday gift and a paper grocery bag full of jars of things I had canned this year, as well as some dehydrated fruits and veggies, today. As a point of reference, there were two jars each of 5 items and one half gallon jar of juice. Additionally, there were about four small bags of dried items.

My son was ecstatic to get the food and present. He misses my home canned foods. After I left, he later called to ask me questions about the food and canning/drying. As we were talking I asked him what his roommate thought about the food bag when she saw it. He said that he was putting it in the cupboard when she got home, and exclaimed, âThereâs enough food for the apocalypse!â When he told me this, I thought how sad it is that evidently her family has never canned or dried food at home. They certainly were not self-reliant in their food supplies. Also that if she thought that "was enough food for the apocalypse", she had no idea what it would really take! I told him to tell her that even if someone doesnât want to be self-reliant in their food supply, home canned food just plain tastes better! He happily exclaimed that he told her that when he was showing her the jars of food.

If no one is teaching these kids anything about food preservation or self-reliance, how will they ever make it through a shtf scenario, or any natural disaster such as Katrina? It is too sad! I am happy to say that my son gets it! He has asked me to teach him how to can and freeze next season! By the way, his gift? Just what he asked for â a food dehydrator! :happy:


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I find the young peoplevery receptive to learning "old" skills. I find teens that want to learn to sew and cook all the time - with no one to teach them.

We give gifts like yours too. And we request that our kids - for our birthdays and Christmas, etc - buy themselves storage items, take a picture of it and include the picture in a card to us. Any way we can encourage them, we do it.


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

This is why gardening, canning, animal husbandry and other skills are considered part of our homeschool education. We are taking two weeks off from acedemics to work on fall canning and preserving and garden work. Then we will hit the books hard again for several weeks and make up time in subjects like math, LA and science. Being able to feed and clothe themselves is essential.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Of all the people around my age that I know in real life, only one mother cans, cooks from scratch and has a modest pantry. We have one elderly neighbor behind us who cans from the garden, too. Lots of women my age mention that their mothers canned, but they don't - just too busy, takes too much time, it's dangerous, can buy it cheaper, etc.

The sad thing is that my daughters will leave home without any of this knowledge because they refuse to participate. They tell me all the time that they can't wait to grow up so they can go live in the city. So all the knowledge I've gathered over the years will die with me, or perhaps my sons or their wives will be interested.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Being prepared means;

buy 3 mcdonalds greese burgers. . . . eat one and put the other two in the freezer. . . . .when things go bad . . .pull one out of the freezer and micro-zap it . . . . .you'll never be hungry again........... 


Sorry I couldn't resist that..............
Yes what will this new generation do when it really gets Nasty . .?!?!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Jim-mi said:


> Yes what will this new generation do when it really gets Nasty . .?!?!


They will die.


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## Barleychown (Jan 30, 2008)

Or, perhaps we are here, but get so very discouraged when reading comments like this.

Being prepared has nothing to do with age, or which generation you come from. True, the older folks have a good head start on learning these skills, but I have managed to teach myself canning, sewing, gardening, and most other homesteading skills with no "help" from older generations.

Maybe instead of focusing on the "generation" mudslinging, we should instead take off the blinders and learn to recognize the homesteading spirit in people of ALL ages.


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

Mom_of_Four said:


> The sad thing is that my daughters will leave home without any of this knowledge because they refuse to participate. They tell me all the time that they can't wait to grow up so they can go live in the city. So all the knowledge I've gathered over the years will die with me, or perhaps my sons or their wives will be interested.


If you are willing to teach, put an ad up in the supermarket, tell the County Extension Office in your area, tell churches and libraries. Many people would like to learn, but lack teachers. Share the wealth!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Barleychown said:


> Or, perhaps we are here, but get so very discouraged when reading comments like this.
> 
> Being prepared has nothing to do with age, or which generation you come from. True, the older folks have a good head start on learning these skills, but I have managed to teach myself canning, sewing, gardening, and most other homesteading skills with no "help" from older generations.
> 
> Maybe instead of focusing on the "generation" mudslinging, we should instead take off the blinders and learn to recognize the homesteading spirit in people of ALL ages.


Just out of curiousity - and since nothing is on your profile for research, how old are you?

Thanks, Angie


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## Pets4me (Oct 6, 2009)

Barleychown: There are lots of people of my age who "don't get it" either. You are obviously young and ambitious, I applaud you for that, but so many of your counterparts aren't. The reality is that unless "someone" has shown them along the way how to be self-reliant, they will expect the government to take care of them in a crisis. Look how well that turned out for the people who counted on Fema in Katrina. 

People of any age have to "want" to be self-reliant, and there are thousands of them who don't. My post wasn't too "bash" your generation but to merely comment on how sad it is that more young people aren't like you. Don't take any posts personally, just be proud that you will be able to help yourself and others when it really counts.

As far as not needing anyone's help to learn all you have - just think how much easier it all would have been if an "older, more experienced" person could have shown you more quicker and easier ways of doing all you learned. Think of how much more you could have learned in that same amount of time.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

There are some anomalies among the current generation. There are twenty-somethings today who are working hard to get into farming. I know because I meet them from time to time. There are plenty of children in the 4-H and FFA clubs who want nothing more than to grow up to be self-reliant farmers working the land. 

The problem is that they are all swimming upstream. They face immense pressure to just do things the easy way. They have few mentors because MY generation underwent the same transformation. If only 10% of my grandfather's generation could have been considered self-reliant and rugged individualists, then of that 10% maybe another 10% managed to raise self-reliant children in the face of the post-WW2 boom and the scaling up of industrialism and reliance on the system that made up the 1950's. Maybe 10% of that generation went on to raise their sons in a similar fashion (MY generation) and of my generation then perhaps 10% of us are going to manage to keep OUR children self-reliant. 

Our churches no longer advocate self-reliance. Our culture no longer advocates it. Our government no longer advocates it. And in many cases our families don't even advocate it. Heck, it seems in half the households on this very forum one spouse or another is either against it or just humoring the other. 

It's an upstream battle, but I give you this promise: *While right now less than 10% of people alive are prepping, self-reliant individualists ... at some point in the future 100% of everyone alive will be prepping, self-reliant individualists.*


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## scatyb (Jan 20, 2009)

Ernie said:


> It's an upstream battle, but I give you this promise: *While right now less than 10% of people alive are prepping, self-reliant individualists ... at some point in the future 100% of everyone alive will be prepping, self-reliant individualists.*



Ah Ernie, always the eternal optimist.


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

I'd call Ernie more of a realist. There is just no way post-modern, Western life can continue along the path it's on. All of the systems we (most of us, even if we are trying to prep.) rely upon have grown overly complex and interdependent. I think there is a very good chance within my lifetime, and most certainly within my children's lifetime, that we see major changes in the way we have to live. I believe these changes will force us to live, act, and work more locally. We'll go back to more village-based economies for the most part, will need to eat seasonally, and in general will spend larger fractions of our time on activities necessary for survivial. Now, the rate at which these changes take place? I hope slowly so more are able to adapt to them. If there's a step-function change, we're in trouble.


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

Mom_of_Four said:


> The sad thing is that my daughters will leave home without any of this knowledge because they refuse to participate. They tell me all the time that they can't wait to grow up so they can go live in the city. So all the knowledge I've gathered over the years will die with me, or perhaps my sons or their wives will be interested.


If you are willing to teach, put an ad up in the supermarket, tell the County Extension Office in your area, tell churches and libraries. Many people would like to learn, but lack teachers. Share the wealth!


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

Back to the point of the post - I think there are a growing number of people interested in self-sufficiency. I certainly was not raised with any such skills. I've been interested in such activities since I was young, but the interested didn't really heat up until the last decade. One thing is for sure - my kids will leapfrog me in knowledge. They are growing up learning how to heat with wood, how to garden, how to preserve food, understanding not only where their food comes from but just how hard it is to get. We grew potatoes for the first time this year - both my boys (ages 4 and 5) helped to plant, weed, hill-up, and harvest. They both loved the experience and love eating the potatoes since they grew them. They'll also understand just how much work goes into producing 5 or 10 pounds of potatoes as compared to the ease of buying some inferior quality spuds at the store when on sale.


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

Mom-of-four: no offense, but are your kids just weird? I would have loved to have grown up learning all of the stuff we are talking about here! Seriously, give them some time. They just don't realize how lucky they are ... yet. Once they've had some time out in the world I'd bet they'll be back wanting to learn so that they can replicate the environment that you've created for their children.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

scatyb said:


> Ah Ernie, always the eternal optimist.


Some people are the "glass is half full" type. Others are the "glass is half empty" type. 

I am the "where's the lid so I can drink the rest of this later" type.


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## Barleychown (Jan 30, 2008)

AngieM2 said:


> Just out of curiousity - and since nothing is on your profile for research, how old are you?
> 
> Thanks, Angie


Angie, I am 29. 


I think the "problem" with people of my age and younger is simply that they have had literally NO exposure to this lifestyle. Growing up, food came from the grocery store; meat on styrofoam wrapped in plastic, bread in a bag. 

I count myself among the VERY lucky to have grown up in the country, so at least I had some clue there were other ways to live.

I am now raising my sisters, who grew up in the city. When they moved in with me, they had never seen a chicken "in real life". Most of the friends they bring home never have, either...but do you know what I see most of all? A willingness to learn. 

They have questions. They want to understand. They just need more people to step up and teach. :goodjob:


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Unfortunatly most people these days are at least 3 generations off the farm and 1 or 2 generations away from a garden. So while their parents or more likely their grandparents knew about; canning, food production, etc the knowledge was not passed along. Campbells, DelMonte, Green Giant, etc *was* just too easy and cheap (now its still easy but it's expensive but the skills have been lost).


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

I find that 3 of my 4 children are much more in tune with this sort of stuff than most... 

My oldest son thinks having a Sam's membership is all he will ever need in the way of food prep.. no changing him..So I stock for him and his family..he is military so no telling where he will end up in a shtf, but his family will live here. He is a good hard worker and so is his wife.. so they will pay their way when they get here.. 

My oldest DD thought I was nuts until she fell in love and married a man like us..lol...when they get out of AF next year, they are moving here to our farm with their two children.

My youngest DD always listens to Mom and is learning everything she can..her DH is clueless. They are in the process of moving to the farm with their soon to be two children..lol

My youngest son (22) manages out preps, cans, dehydrates, stores and farms, keep up on all world events and is as ready as any I know...

Most of the young people aren't interested in this sort of thing, however, I do know some that are and take every opportunity to teach what I know which all of us should be willing to do...But you cannot change people or force your ways on them.. they will do what they will do..


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

Mom_of_Four said:


> Of all the people around my age that I know in real life, only one mother cans, cooks from scratch and has a modest pantry.  We have one elderly neighbor behind us who cans from the garden, too. Lots of women my age mention that their mothers canned, but they don't - just too busy, takes too much time, it's dangerous, can buy it cheaper, etc.
> 
> The sad thing is that my daughters will leave home without any of this knowledge because they refuse to participate. They tell me all the time that they can't wait to grow up so they can go live in the city. So all the knowledge I've gathered over the years will die with me, or perhaps my sons or their wives will be interested.


I bet you twenty jars of jam, once these girls get to a real age of reasoning, they will not only kick themselves for not learning as youngsters, but will be begging you to teach them. For some children, its part of growing up.
My best thanks from my own 21 yr old was, "Mom, thank you so much for teaching me how to do things for myself". I almost shed a tear over that one. My little guys (9 and 10) love the animals, and the husbandry of them, and the garden, but only one so far is interested in learning what to do with what we grow. I have also caught them bragging to the other cub/boy scouts (one is a webelo, other is a tenderfoot)...."Oh, we dont buy that, we make our own" LOL


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Barleychown said:


> Angie, I am 29.
> 
> 
> I think the "problem" with people of my age and younger is simply that they have had literally NO exposure to this lifestyle. Growing up, food came from the grocery store; meat on styrofoam wrapped in plastic, bread in a bag.
> ...



thanks for the Age.... You're right between the ages of my two girls.

They are part city and part country. And I'm one who's mom worked outside the home and didn't want me underfoot in the kitchen. I was good for dishwashing. I learned to cook on the hubby after I got married. (but I did take one semester of cooking in high school). 

I think not having Home Ed and Shop cuts down on the possibility of having the upcoming younger adult generation learn a bunch of things.

Angie


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Plenty of my friends in their 50's, 60's, 70's have no interest in prepping. My mom is 88 and her idea of prepping is "They'll come and take us to the Community Building". She is in an all electric house and during an ice storm did not have a drop of kerosene for her heater or lamp. If we hadn't bought her a couple flashlights after dad died she'd been completely in the dark. A friend has a small pantry cupboard and considers having it full (of mostly trash) being prepped. Of course, I assume some are preppers and don't talk about it, but I'd almost guarantee most are not. One friend in his 70's built a new house and had a whole house generator installed. For some reason he decided to disconnect it so he has a $5,000 monument to his stupidity sitting in his backyard. My son doesn't prep. My youngest dd can't afford to prep. Not sure about other dd but I doubt she has any extra food in the house because she usually eats at the hospital where she works.


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## romysbaskets (Aug 29, 2009)

After raising two daughters and seeing just that, no real interest in sewing, canning, wood gathering, cooking from scratch etc once they hit their teens..... They have turned that completely around! My older daughter was beaming as she showed me her tomatoes she grew this year! She has to gather firewood now as the house they live in is too expensive to heat any other way. My other daughter grew some basil. It was a small step but they are both now asking questions! One wants me to show her how to crochet. They both are very good cooks and call me for recipes. Both of their boyfriends have thanked me for showing them how to cook. They get very excited about a jar of blackberry jam. When we have holiday meals they beeline for our home. They appreciate what I do very much. The older daughter's boyfriend is very impressed by my sewing for instance, I helped them with a few things. I cook and show them new things every time I see them. Then they call me to ask me how to do these things later.... Funny little trick.... Only one of the two has an interest in sewing.

Our boys are well rounded, being raised around boats, gardening, canning, sewing etc...one likes to cook and the other helps with prep. The younger one likes to sew, garden and build things. Often the things we are raised around to come around full swing! It is always worth the efforts and yes.....more often than not, they come back later and want to "relearn" what you have taught them.

My Grandmother was raised during the depression and told us many stories about it. The soup line that went to their back door as her Farmer parents shared their food by way of their own kitchen and supplies. She spoke of the things people had to eat! She didn't throw away food. To this day to share what I have with others makes what I have even better! When I deliver unsweetened cinnamon apple sauce, or bread etc... to an older diabetic neighbor, it feels more like a gift I am given to be able to share.


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## NJ Rich (Dec 14, 2005)

No matter how much I talk with our three sons, "they turn a deaf ear". They don't want to hear anything about prepping or what is going on in the world. One daughter-in-law actually blocked my emails many of which contained info from HT. :bdh: 

As I mentioned in another thread here, I did tell one sons mother-in-law she should prep because we can't take people in here.  As I said in that post "she has the money to prep but the mall sales are more important. :flame:

All of my sons say, "It will never happen dad". I pray they are right but I believe they are wrong. :bash:

I would take canning classses if they were available here. We use pressure cookers now (we have four) and that is a basic principle of canning correct???


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

My oldest boy helped me carry in some cases of canned food. These are our emergency rations: Spam, kraut, apple sauce, etc. I've got about 3 months worth and we stacked it up in the kitchen before putting it away. 

I asked him, "What do you think about us doing all this?" while we sat and drank a cup of coffee together after the labor was done. He replied, "I wish we'd gotten some more cans of sweet potatoes. I love those."

To him, this is "normal". He's never really known anything else. We cut the television cable off, we homeschool, and the boys spend every spare minute in their day with me doing work around the farm. It's the only life they know and I hope like crazy that it sticks when they go out to raise their own families. I'm constantly saying, "someday when you're a father and you got your own family you'll be ..." as we go about our tasks. 

It's a grasshopper world. If you're an ant, you can't let your children be raised by grasshoppers. You've got to get out there and show them how the ants do things and don't expect they're going to learn just by osmosis.

Look at the Amish. They raise their children in an insular fashion, steeped in community, faith, and family in a very specific way of life. Then when their children come of age they send them out into the world to see if it's what they want to do. It's no surprise that most of those Amish children come back home to live as their parents and grandparents did.


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

NJ Rich - the "it will never happen" argument is almost funny if it weren't so serious. We could start an entire thread listing what "wouldn't happen":

Monetized debt (well, nobody else is stepping up to buy the debt that the Treasury issues each week, so why not let the Fed buy it!)

GM = government motors

Another bailout? What Tarp parts 1&2, GM, Chrysler, AIG, entire credit system wasn't enough...

Gas at over $4/gallon

I'm sure we could all populate quite a list. 

My advice for a lot of us on this site with friends/family that don't want to hear it:

1 - Get them some good reading material that they can go through on their own (if they are so willing). I plan on buying a few copies of Jim Rawles new book to hand out at Christmas to family members. They already think I'm nuts, so I'll just go ahead and seal the deal.

2 - Challenge them to a TEOTWAWKI weekend - turn off the main breaker to the house as well as whatever the water supply is - if it's a well, switch off the pump - city water, close the main valve. See how long they can go with just what they have in the house for preps.


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

It dawned on me this weekend, that should any shtf scenario occur that is going to last a while, I will end up being one of the wealthiest women around.

Know why? Because of my knowledge of growing food and preserving it. Not just for the stores of food I have squirreled away, but because I can teach others. That's a very valuable thing in uncertain times. I offer to teach my younger relatives but they "don't have time" which translates into-I don't want to make time *rolls eye balls* Heck, if I can garden and do all this canning while having a full time job, they can too, lol

I hate to admit that I rely upon the net a little too much for information on items I have not made before, but that thought has prompted me to start writing things down. Not everything I have learned is found in the books I have on hand at home.


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

Ernie - that's an admirable way of life. Your kids will benefit in enormous ways we can't even fathom b/c of a good, home/faith-centered existence. 

We homeschool as well, have no cable (do watch movies/programs from library/Netflix though), have the gardens going, heat with wood, and the boys spend all the time with me they can when I'm home - that's the one big problem - I'm gone every day. Working on a long-term plan to change that. My boys will grow up thinking it's normal to heat with wood, eat fantastic home-cooked food they helped raise, have school by the woodstove, have extra stores "down cellar", woodwork, etc. Next spring we'll have laying hens, more garden space, and hopefully fruit/nut trees going in.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Good on you, Tim! I think you and I are two peas in a pod sometimes. Maybe you aren't as wild-eyed crazy yet, but you could get there. I have hope for you. 

The other side of the coin is ... say nothing ever happens ... your kids STILL have a pretty dang good life growing up. The world needs self-reliant BUSINESSMEN too. And fathers, even if they live in the city or suburbs, don't they need to be as self-reliant as possible?

There is no bigger sin in the world than turning loose another grown man who can't feed himself, protect himself, or think for himself. We can't ever forget that we're not raising boys ... we're raising MEN.

And I hope that out there somewhere someone is raising some young women with similar mindsets for when my four head out into the world to start their own families.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

I'm relieved that I'm not the only parent with a kid who thinks .. heh.. about both prepping, and the skills to be self reliant.

My boy is 20, and I've raised him by myself since he was about 2 (I might as well have been alone from the get-go if ykwim). 

I've kind of felt like a failure in the tiny amount I've taught him. Then I've always had the excuse that being a single parent, there were just so many things I had to do to survive (working full time, sometimes 2 jobs, etc.) that didn't allow time for much. 
I'm comforted to know it looks like folks from all sorts of families have children of different mind sets.
An I agree with what many have said about MomofFour's kids given some time.. that when he is more "on his own" in the world, he will think back on the fact that I have some good info if he will take it.


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## laughaha (Mar 4, 2008)

My nieces and nephews love to "help" can up food. Honestly it's just about an adult actually spending time with them, but they get so excited when they come over and we open up a jar of peaches that they canned. They are so cute! They get a sense of accomplishment and are learning important skills. Oh, and I am probably the only person in town that doesn't get her pumpkins smashed because if they get smashed they won't get to make REAL pumpkin pie, lol. Heaven help any kid who tries to smash my pumpkins, the boys will masachre them.


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

Ernie - thanks for the compliment, I'm still working on the wild, crazy-eyed part ...

partndn - I really think once kids get a dose of the world they'll realize the wisdom behind the lifestyle you lead. 

laughaha - my one son used to only like roasted potatoes (my wife grinds up fresh spices and rolls the potatoes in a bit of oil and then the spice mixture before roasting ... oh I'm getting hungry ...) - not mashed, not crazy about boiled with butter, not baked UNTIL we grew our own. Once he experienced growing them himself he loves eating them however my wife fixes them. Amazing difference!

The mention of spouses for kids is funny - how different our (people on this thread) criteria for a good spouse for our kids must be from most other folks. When I think of wives for my sons I think of things like how strong is their faith? how do they treat their parents? will they invest in their own children like my wife has in hers? do they think of a home as more than a place to eat/sleep? do they enjoy "traditional" skills/activities like gardening, preserving, animal husbandry?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

we had a cusins step son up a few years back from southern califorinia for deer hunting he was about 25, he had cuture shock when after dinner we went out and butchered 4 deer in the garage 

he helped a little , but was just a major shock the way we live , i guess compared to the way he was used. he did take his deer to a preccessor and then have it shipped home i guess that must be what your supposed to do.
i got the deffinite feeling work was a 4 letter word in southern california and that doing any after spending the day walking several miles driving and tracking deer and then to see a 70 year old woman who had just out walked him by walking every drive of the day ,working in the garage cutting deer and calling dibs on soup bones, was just a shock.

i left a mason jar of soup on my desk at work for a few weeks , then i had some one say , i dare you to eat that clearly thinking it must be bad ,ok i was planning on it thats lunch, the idea that you can safely pressure can meat really gets some people if it doesn't have a label on it that sais safe to eat untill 1/2010 on it they don't think it is safe to eat.


is anyone else finding it really hard to eat out and be satisfied with the quality of the food after spending months at a time not eating out and doing all scratch cooking


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> is anyone else finding it really hard to eat out and be satisfied with the quality of the food after spending months at a time not eating out and doing all scratch cooking


I have a lot of trouble eating in places that advertise "home cooked meals" and such. I can't eat at Cracker Barrel or those sorts of places when they cook the same types of food I cook at home. Mostly because what I cook is from scratch and of good quality stuff while what they cook is either from a can or made from trash products I'd never buy.

When I'm out on the road I try to stick to things I never get to eat when I'm at home like sushi or pizza. If I'm eating something I don't normally make then I don't have any basis for comparison.


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## ejagno (Jan 2, 2008)

Pouncer said:


> It dawned on me this weekend, that should any shtf scenario occur that is going to last a while, I will end up being one of the wealthiest women around.
> 
> Know why? Because of my knowledge of growing food and preserving it. Not just for the stores of food I have squirreled away, but because I can teach others. That's a very valuable thing in uncertain times. I offer to teach my younger relatives but they "don't have time" which translates into-I don't want to make time *rolls eye balls* Heck, if I can garden and do all this canning while having a full time job, they can too, lol
> 
> I hate to admit that I rely upon the net a little too much for information on items I have not made before, but that thought has prompted me to start writing things down. Not everything I have learned is found in the books I have on hand at home.


Pouncer;

You have the right idea. On another forum I visit they've begun preparing ICE (In Case of Emergency) books for their spouses and kids. How often do we find ourselves doing tasks that our husbands, wives or kids have no idea how to complete in our absence. I've been begging hubby to show me how to bleed the well. He has absolutely no idea how to can. The kids have no idea how to locate our important papers........the list is endless. We always take for granted that the others will be around when a problem or even worse, a disaster hits. Think about preparing binders folks. It may take several but always keep the main title ICE with subtitles such as sewing, gardening, outdoor equipment, vital information, preserving, storage (we hide stuff everywhere but it would be nice if they knew where when it was needed), pets, animals................................... put book references where needed, add manuals, spare keys, combinations and such where needed.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

Ernie said:


> I have a lot of trouble eating in places that advertise "home cooked meals" and such. I can't eat at Cracker Barrel or those sorts of places when they cook the same types of food I cook at home. Mostly because what I cook is from scratch and of good quality stuff while what they cook is either from a can or made from trash products I'd never buy.
> 
> When I'm out on the road I try to stick to things I never get to eat when I'm at home like sushi or pizza. If I'm eating something I don't normally make then I don't have any basis for comparison.


I totally agree. My dad used to come every Sunday for supper. He always said "This is my favorite restaurant". Makes you feel good to cook for those who appreciate it.
And I stock spam too


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Heh. Spam is not stellar eating, but it is very fat and protein dense. High calories, little can. I use it mostly as a starvation-preventer as you cook it with some greens, or a little rice, or whatever and it helps add bulk protein to soup. 

To rotate that stock, I take a couple of cans with me when I go fishing or camping in the spring, or when I'm going to be working out too far to come back to the house for lunch. It tastes good when you're hungry and you've been sweating heavily and your body needs salt.


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## firegirl969 (Nov 3, 2008)

My kids grew up learning how to raise veggies, herbs, and blueberries, how to raise and milk goats, how to raise chickens, pigs, and cows, kill, butcher and process them, how to get eggs and what to do with them, how to can veggies and make pickles, jellies, jams, and preserves, etc. I homeschooled them and all of this was incorporated into our curriculum. Reading the Ball Blue Book was as important as reading the McGuffey Reader, each had its place. Now, they are all on their own except one DS. He hates to do these things, but helps us iout if he plans to eat. He tells us he will move away as soon as he can and get an education fixing boat motors and never have to do these things to survive. My answer to him is "good luck." I understand that the kids don't want to do these things now and great for them, but at least if TSHTF, I have taught them how to survive.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

When I was growing up my mother gardened and canned everything she could get her hands on. I wasn't interested at all. By the time I was about 30 I got interested and learned to do it on my own. I actually developed an appreciation for her effots. We have four DD's, the youngest 20 and still at home. None of them are interested, although one who lives locally does occasionally take some canned food home when she runs short on her grocery budget. I keep hoping that they will all remember me canning and gardening and actually want to do it later in life.


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## randy11acres (Aug 29, 2009)

While growing up my two oldest children had no interest in learning gardening, composting, etc. but guess who is into it now! After being exposed to it while young, many times they will come to realize that self sufficiency it the way to go.


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## michelleIL (Aug 29, 2004)

I was never exposed to it at all, except noticing that other people did those things. It was always being poor that got me moving in the right direction.


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## Ark (Oct 5, 2004)

What does it matter whether or not your kids have an interest? 
It should be something they have to learn to do whether they like it or not.
It's just a fact of life here, and the kids dont bother complaining because it wouldnt do any good. :sing:
They are going to know how to can, butcher, milk, etc and one day they might even appreciate it!!


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Madame said:


> If you are willing to teach, put an ad up in the supermarket, tell the County Extension Office in your area, tell churches and libraries. Many people would like to learn, but lack teachers. Share the wealth!


I get frustrated because I've offered a few times to teach other mothers how to can or butcher or pickle. We actually did drive to one HT member's house and show her how to butcher a chicken, once. It felt good to pass along the knowledge! I've offered a pregnant rabbit to another neighbor, to get her started, but she said they weren't sure they could butcher and eat them. Even when I offered to come butcher they waffled.

Many people have gardens, but they eat or give away what they grow and when the season is over they have nothing put by. Women ask me questions how I canned my turkey or how I use dehydrated onions, but when I offer to show them or teach them they're suddenly too busy. I think they're just being polite when they ask.

I'd be happy to put up ads too, but I wouldn't want someone coming to my house to see what I have stored. I'd have to haul my canner and jars, etc to their house, at the risk of meeting a psycho. Maybe I'll call the library or the church down the street and see if they would be willing to sponsor a canning class.


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## Pets4me (Oct 6, 2009)

Mom of Four: Itâs great that you have offered to help others learn the ropes of garden and meat preparations! I think it is just that to anyone who has never been around killing and animal, and all the work that you go through to prepare it for the table, is overwhelming for them. I know if I hadnât been raised where we had family âchicken plucking partiesâ each summer, or had family members who hunted and gutted their kill for the butcher, I would probably be just as grossed out at first. Itâs not easy to watch all the steps and then do them yourself for the first time. In fact, if you are raised as a proper lady, itâs considered gross with a capital G! It was considered a manâs thing, and no woman in her right mind would gut a chicken! Most young people now ask why gut a chicken instead of go to the store! :boring:

Donât give up your efforts to educate those who want to learn! You are helping future generations even after youâre gone from this earth!

My son called me today, and sheepishly admitted that the dried fruit I had sent in yesterday was all gone! He and his roommate had finished it off, and she had to admit she liked it! He wanted to know how I processed the fruit, so I told him how to do it in his new dehydrator. Perhaps we will have a new convert to this lifestyle if she continues to be willing to try new things! Thatâs why we all need to never give up hope in our kids! :kissy:


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Ernie said:


> There are some anomalies among the current generation. There are twenty-somethings today who are working hard to get into farming. I know because I meet them from time to time. There are plenty of children in the 4-H and FFA clubs who want nothing more than to grow up to be self-reliant farmers working the land.
> 
> The problem is that they are all swimming upstream. They face immense pressure to just do things the easy way.


I know a few younger folk that would love to get into dairy farming (myself included) but with the current price of milk and how high land prices are it just doesn't pay enough. It was much easier for people back in the day to be self sufficient, land was cheap, neighbors were few, and the government had a more hands off approach to things. Part of the problem with farming is that it has gotten too efficient, one needs to keep getting bigger equipment and more land to make the same amount of money they did 10 years before. Food is too cheap, might have been more or less made to go that way by the goverment because it helps to subsidize the consumer economy that the US has evolved into.

Ernie your absolutely right around trying to swim upstream. It is way easier just to cave in and do what everyone else is doing. I could go over the road and weld and have my place paid off in under a year versus trying to make my living off of my land. I have enough land that I could probably get by off of what I could raise from it but I would be dirt poor. 

Also back in the day it was easier to find buyers for your products. How many places still have local canneries that buy local produce anymore? My grandma told me how she bought her first car (a 50 Studebaker I think) with money she got from selling eggs to the egg man. The egg man has been replaced by huge chicken farms with thousands of laying hens. If agriculture paid as well as it used to I think you would see many more young people getting into it and most likely by extension being more self-sufficient.


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

I have to admit, I never really thought about canning and such until I was referred to this site from another site. I got stoked about it, and asked my MIL to teach me to can. I have very limited space but my dream is to have enough space to can more! I don't think the quart of tomatoes and 12 quarts of green beans I did will get me very far lol. I am amazed and admire so many of you. I am 32 years old and I am trying to learn so many things I was never taught as a youngun, my mom was always busy and she quit canning after awhile.

Thanks everyone for the inspiration!


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Mom_of_Four said:


> Of all the people around my age that I know in real life, only one mother cans, cooks from scratch and has a modest pantry. We have one elderly neighbor behind us who cans from the garden, too. Lots of women my age mention that their mothers canned, but they don't - just too busy, takes too much time, it's dangerous, can buy it cheaper, etc.
> 
> The sad thing is that my daughters will leave home without any of this knowledge because they refuse to participate. They tell me all the time that they can't wait to grow up so they can go live in the city. So all the knowledge I've gathered over the years will die with me, or perhaps my sons or their wives will be interested.


Don't think for a moment that your daughters won't learn some of this. I was the child that swore I would leave the country behind me when I grow up. I wanted to be sophisticated and worldly. Guess what? I found out that city life isn't for me and now I'm trying get back to my country roots. It dawned on me one day just how dysfunctional city life is and how people seem to chase and value materialistic things. I will probably dawn on your daughter too one day!


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## michelleIL (Aug 29, 2004)

I'm 32 as well and also new to canning but not for long!


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

julieq said:


> I keep hoping that they will all remember me canning and gardening and actually want to do it later in life.


 When growing up my parents canned yet not one of us kids canned -- until this year when my wife and I started. I'm 53 and both parents have passed on, it took a while (about 40 years) but we picked it up with the help of this website and that Ball Blue Book, we just canned some more pickles last night (Dill spears this time) with the last(?) of the cukes.

There's always hope that one of them will start canning sometime.


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

My grandchildren love to come over here and learn new things. I've taught them how to make cheese, can and dehydrate. Catch them while they're young. Because they aren't around others that do this kind of thing, they find this exciting.

This year we rented out garden spaces to nine families. We had two families from Kenya that are use to having year round gardens, so they were real interested in learning about freezing, canning and dehydrating, especially here in MN where we have a limited time for gardening. I found it so much fun teaching them, and they were so eager to learn about the methods of food preservation.

So, if you get the chance to teach someone, you'll be doing a big favor that they can use the rest of their lives, and you'll find new friendships along the way.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

TheMartianChick said:


> Don't think for a moment that your daughters won't learn some of this. I was the child that swore I would leave the country behind me when I grow up. I wanted to be sophisticated and worldly. Guess what? I found out that city life isn't for me and now I'm trying get back to my country roots. It dawned on me one day just how dysfunctional city life is and how people seem to chase and value materialistic things. I will probably dawn on your daughter too one day!


Thank you Martianchick, and the others who have been supportive. I'd probably die of shock if my girls showed any interest in any of that "old fogey" or "little house on the prairie" stuff, as they call it. But maybe one day they will see the value of eating pure, homegrown food, even if they never come around to butchering or making soap.

Neither of my grandparents did any canning that I'm aware of, although my mother did can tomatoes and green beans when we had overflow from the garden. She was much more into freezing foods. So I'm mostly self taught from the blue book and this board and some other book and Internet sources. If I can do it, anyone can, and I hope the farming arts don't die out in another few generations.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

You mention "Little House on the Prairie" which triggers one of my favorite rants.

Have you read those books as an adult, maybe to children? Did you notice the progression?

In the earliest books, Pa Wilder was a self-sufficient, independent man. A man's man who could go out and fight a bear, chase off indians, bring home a wild boar and skin it out and put it in the smokehouse with only Ma's help. As the years go on, Pa moves to town, gets a job, and ultimately ends up eating processed food from the local grocery. 

It's almost as if the author intended to show the progression of man from independent agrarianism to dependent cog in the industrialist machine. Ever listen to the lyrics of "Song of the South" by Alabama? Another example of the destruction of agrarians at the hands of government and industry.


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

My son, at ten, watches what I do, and helps when I demand it, but he doesn't enjoy any of it of course. However, I have carefully planted the "some day" seed, and it does crop up from time to time in conversation.

The "some day" is when there isn't any food in the grocery stores, or some day he will have to grow all his own food, and like that. He's got a good memory and I am pretty sure it will stick with him in the future to some degree. That's about all you can hope for, really.


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## scatyb (Jan 20, 2009)

Well Ernie, I never read those books; could barely stand the show. Of course I could barely stand any tv. Still, even in the show, towards the end, the whole thing just falls apart. Rather sad.

On another note, when I was a kid, my mom, aunt, and grandma would all can and whatnot, but I was never allowed in the kitchen to watch or "help". The prevailing excuse was, "these jars could explode and we don't want you getting hurt."


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

scatyb said:


> On another note, when I was a kid, my mom, aunt, and grandma would all can and whatnot, but I was never allowed in the kitchen to watch or "help". The prevailing excuse was, "these jars could explode and we don't want you getting hurt."


I have a lot of trouble with this in my own life. Often I am too tired to teach, or too grouchy, or for whatever reason I just don't feel like letting one of the boys tag along with me on some project I'm working on. Sometimes I'm just selfish and I enjoy doing the labor myself and don't want to share.

As a parent, I sometimes forget that the _entire purpose_ of homesteading is to preserve and teach the next generation.

Survival for survival's sake is SELFISH and USELESS! It is the height of vanity thinking that your life is so precious that it must be preserved. The only TRUE purpose of survival is so that you might help others also survive, and especially those young ones who have been placed into your care. While I might like holding up in a wood hut on top of a remote mountain for some time, I would soon lose my sense of purpose. To what end would I work? To what goals would my labors be applied?

I often have to remind myself of these things and then I'll allow the young ones into the garden where careless feet may do damage. The tragedy is not going to be if some young foot crushes a seedling. The tragedy would be if that young foot was not there in the garden in the first place.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Well said, Ernie


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Ernie said:


> You mention "Little House on the Prairie" which triggers one of my favorite rants.
> 
> Have you read those books as an adult, maybe to children? Did you notice the progression?
> 
> ...



My favorite...

"Gone..Gone with the wind.."


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Ernie said:


> I have a lot of trouble with this in my own life. Often I am too tired to teach, or too grouchy, or for whatever reason I just don't feel like letting one of the boys tag along with me on some project I'm working on. Sometimes I'm just selfish and I enjoy doing the labor myself and don't want to share.
> 
> As a parent, I sometimes forget that the _entire purpose_ of homesteading is to preserve and teach the next generation.
> 
> ...


Great post, Ernie - I agree totally. The only reason I store food and learn how to do self sufficient things is to provide for my family. I will admit I get personal satisfaction from seeing my rows of full canning jars and healthy chickens and rabbits on the hoof, but that isn't the reason I started all this. I should push harder to insist they learn some of these skills. It would make my load lighter, too.


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

Had to comment on the "Little House" series of books - great books. I think that "Farmer Boy" is the best - I know that it's probably a very romanticized version of reality, but wow does the life described in that book sound great! I read it to my boys last winter sitting by the stove. I think it will become an annual event as they have already started requesting that we read it again but know that we must wait until it's colder outside and the stove is going 24/7. If we started reading it before that time, well, it just wouldn't be right thing to do ...

Ernie - I hear what you're saying about the kids. It's easy to want to do many tasks yourself as they're done faster - this effect is exacerbated if you're like me and work outside the home all week and therefore have limited time after work and on weekends to get such tasks done. I have to constantly remind myself to be patient and as inclusive as possible. My kids are also young, so I try to achieve an appropriate balance between having them help out a bit and learn, and also be kids and have fun. What has worked well so far is having them help out (1) with anything involving tools or equipment - they took turns blowing leaves into piles that we could shred up for compost the other day. They loved using the blower. (2) alternate work/play - they help me load firewood splits into a cart - they load a cartful and go play while I split. Once I split enough to load a cartful they come back and load again. (3) Most important - pray for a servant's heart. I try to do this at the start of the day on the weekend and/or way home from work.


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## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

My parents didn't can or freeze. We grew up several states away from extended family, so I don't even know if my grandparents did. 

I cannot tell you how I came to the conclusion, but somehow I realized that if my kids didn't at least see me doing it, they wouldn't have any idea that they could too, if they needed to. So, I got started and thanks to Farm Journal's book of canning and freezing, I learned. Unfortunately, we had a galley kitchen at the time. It was wonderfully efficient (everything was within a couple of steps), but remember, I was learning from a book. So....the first step to canning was to wash down and bleach all work surfaces. If someone (DH, 3 kids)got hungry while I was working, I had to start all over with the bleach, etc. after the snack or meal. I have learned not to be quite so anal, but at the time, it just became much easier to start canning after everyone went to bed. I was a SAHM at the time, so it was very doable.

Now for the regret, they never got to listen for the "plink". I think that if I had included them more, they would be more apt to preserve for their own use now. My eldest shows an interest and loves to help me. She lives out of state, so that doesn't happen real often, but I treasure it when it does. My son has married a woman that says she would like to learn. I see some promise there. My youngest? - no chance - ever. That is sad to me.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Wendell Berry once told the story of a famous horse trainer who was asked the very basic question, "How do you train a horse?" The horse trainer's response was: "Which horse?"

Each kid is different. I've got one who is extremely organized. So I try to focus him on the logistical side of prepping. "How many of each item would we need to store to provide the average meal for the next 6 months?" I have another child who is far less organized, but much more creative. I try to involve him in the planning and design stage of what we'll keep on hand. So forth and so on.

At the end of the day, teaching your children to prep is a parenting challenge. In our society today, people rarely see the results of poor planning. There's always some agency or organization to fall back on, and the people who need it are then effectively removed from the community into a shelter or foster home or what-have-you. Remember the old adage that "if you can't be a good example then at least your life will serve as a warning to others"? That doesn't apply when people are removed from the community. 

I think in order to effectively teach your children to be self-reliant, you have to remove them from the culture at large. There are very few life lessons to be learned out in the world in a young child's life. And we need to make doubly sure that as the prime example, we are setting a good example.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Mom_of_Four - can you keep a journal telling how to do the things you know. Someday (usually after it's too late) the adult "kids" will look back and wish they had listened and absorbed all that knowledge. If you leave it for them, it will be available to them (at least in printed form.)


I don't think a lot of those old skills are lost, they may be temporarily misplaced, but not gone for good. There are still old timers around who have knowledge they want to pass on. There are books full of info for those who wish to search it out. There are pockets of communities where that old time knowledge is used daily and passed on to the next generations. 

I was lucky that I grew up in a family that lived as self-sustaining as possible. We raised meat on the farm, grew a large garden, planted an orchard, and bartered with a neighbor who planted our field on 1/2's (that earned the money to pay the property tax every year.) 

I used to envy the kids who lived in town and didn't have to work on their parents place. At the time I wanted nothing more than to leave home and live in town where "life was easier". I did that for a few years. Guess what, life was not easier, it was miserable! 

I ended up with a place that is almost a duplicate of what my parents had. Mine is a bit larger, a bit nicer, a lot more enjoyable, now that I'm smart enough to know what I have. 

Country life can skip a generation or two, but eventually many end up getting back to basics and embracing their roots. It's important to have the information available for them when that happens. For that reason I have several notebooks full of information for my kids, not only what I did, but how I did it, step by step instructions for canning, dehydrating, animal care & feeding, butchering, cooking from scratch, priming the pump, cleaning out the drain pipes, etc. Hopefully they'll embrace it one day. If that time comes after I'm gone, then it's all here for them in the books so they can "go to mom" for advice years after I'm nothing more than a memory.


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## dianaofthedunes (Sep 3, 2008)

I'm 26. I started canning and freezing fresh produce last year and planted a small garden, made jam, and canned again this year. I wanted to have chickens this year too, but finishing some home renovations before the baby arrived took priority... 

I don't know quite how/where I got the idea to become more self-sufficient. My grandma used to a long time ago, but not since I've been alive. My mom canned once with my aunt, but that was also before I was born. Nobody I know lives on an actual working farm or homestead. My family and friends either think what I'm doing is really cool (but not for them), or wonder why I would bother when I can buy things at the store.

For me, the point is that maybe something will happen where I *can't* just go buy things at the store. My husband had an injury a few years ago where he wasn unable to work for about 8 weeks. We were lucky enough that his job continued to pay him even after his sick time ran out (big benefit of working for a small town), but it got us both thinking about what would happen if one of us lost our paycheck or other scenarios where we couldn't just go out and buy food.

Another thing that helped me down this road was seeing just how much people depend on the government to fix all their problems. I'm probably jaded from working in law enforcement, but some days I wonder if anyone is capable of thinking for themselves instead of waiting for it to be spoon-fed to them... Hurricane Katrina (as well as common sense!) showed me that the government won't be there to help you if something really goes wrong. 

So while it started out with us storing food, it's grown quite a bit in the past few years. We wanted to eat healthier, so we cook from scratch and buy our food from local farmers. Which turned into canning and freezing that same local produce, for food storage and health reasons. Which is turning into growing/raising our own, for both of those same reasons. 

For me, at least, it all ties together. I want to be healthier, lighter on environmental resources, and not rely so much on others for the basics of my survival. It really is a whole lifestyle. 

Unfortunately, I don't have anyone to teach me. I've learned about canning and gardening from books and the internet, and I'll probably have to do the same with raising chickens. It's not just my generation, most folks just don't see the need to do for themselves when they can just run to Wal-Mart...


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## CamM (Dec 6, 2008)

PhilJohnson said:


> I know a few younger folk that would love to get into dairy farming (myself included) but with the current price of milk and how high land prices are it just doesn't pay enough. It was much easier for people back in the day to be self sufficient, land was cheap, neighbors were few, and the government had a more hands off approach to things. Part of the problem with farming is that it has gotten too efficient, one needs to keep getting bigger equipment and more land to make the same amount of money they did 10 years before. Food is too cheap, might have been more or less made to go that way by the goverment because it helps to subsidize the consumer economy that the US has evolved into.
> 
> Ernie your absolutely right around trying to swim upstream. It is way easier just to cave in and do what everyone else is doing. I could go over the road and weld and have my place paid off in under a year versus trying to make my living off of my land. I have enough land that I could probably get by off of what I could raise from it but I would be dirt poor.
> 
> Also back in the day it was easier to find buyers for your products. How many places still have local canneries that buy local produce anymore? My grandma told me how she bought her first car (a 50 Studebaker I think) with money she got from selling eggs to the egg man. The egg man has been replaced by huge chicken farms with thousands of laying hens. If agriculture paid as well as it used to I think you would see many more young people getting into it and most likely by extension being more self-sufficient.


I'm in the same position. There's no chance of buying enough land to make a living here. Come springtime I want to get out and work at some farm, but the stipends are small. It could lead to slightly higher pay with some experience behind me. These days I'm reading the key to success is selling a large variety of crops or produce, and selling just milk or one thing makes you a slave of that price, though I'm sure you know that. 

Seems like the best way to get into the business for us younger people is to work under somebody else and maybe they could sell us some of their own land or lease it. I read about a program in Iowa where a guy matches people with a farmer and there's potential for eventually managing or owning the farm once the farmer retires.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

CamM said:


> I'm in the same position. There's no chance of buying enough land to make a living here. Come springtime I want to get out and work at some farm, but the stipends are small. It could lead to slightly higher pay with some experience behind me. These days I'm reading the key to success is selling a large variety of crops or produce, and selling just milk or one thing makes you a slave of that price, though I'm sure you know that.
> 
> Seems like the best way to get into the business for us younger people is to work under somebody else and maybe they could sell us some of their own land or lease it. I read about a program in Iowa where a guy matches people with a farmer and there's potential for eventually managing or owning the farm once the farmer retires.


Well unfortunately for myself the Amish got the whole variety of crops/produce thing to the point where they pretty much crowd everyone else. There is a place about 45 minutes north of me that buys different vegetables but of course the price being paid is less than one could get at a farmer's market.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

There is a network, a growing underground movement, of people who are linking up and teaching each other these skills. One person knows how to blacksmith, another knows how to compost, another knows how to clean a deer, etc. and then they all just take turns holding classes and seminars. For free.

I would love to find about 3 days every 6 months to go camp out someplace and attend 3 days worth of seminars from likeminded folk on various topics. We could set the locations of these meets in ways that meant nobody had to drive over about 180 miles, work on putting together an agenda ahead of time, and then just schedule out the 3 days with topics people would like to learn about.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Ernie - neat idea.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Thanks. I'm just one for throwing out ideas though. That one is in desperate need of an organizer.


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

i think self-reliance is an attitude, not any specific skill.

when i went to grad school, a friend gave me some really good advice -- he said to take courses from the great professors, even if that wasn't the subspecialty i hoped to work in, because great professors will make you think, and make the topic come alive (plus you never know where your career path will actually take you). if all the professor does is cover what's in a textbook, you can learn that on your own faster and easier, when you really need it.

i think that's true of self-reliance as well. i didn't learn any specific homesteading skills from my parents. my dad did finish out the basement of the house i grew up in, putting in studs and paneling, etc. altho i never helped any. at the same time, i don't recall him ever doing any auto repair. so what i absorbed in the attitude was a love of learning, and an attitude of being able to choose what i wanted to do, if i was willing to learn.

i learned to can from reading the blue book. my background in science made it pretty straightforward to understand what was going on, and why it needed to be done. my impetus for learning was watching the financial bubble and realizing it was going to end badly, which i realized because i was taught to think for myself by my parents. 

for this specific skill of canning, i don't know that i'd be that much farther ahead having learned from my parents. 

however, i'd be a lot farther behind if i had the attitude that i had to rely on an "expert" to do everything. or if I thought that somehow i'd missed a one-time opportunity to learn something and now it was "too late" to learn new things.

if, by your example, you're teaching your kids that they can create their own dreams, and make them happen, then you're doing very well, and they'll likely be very successful in whatever dreams they have, even if they aren't the same dreams you have. and they'll adapt their skills and life to what's occuring in the world around them over time.

--sgl


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Ernie said:


> There is a network, a growing underground movement, of people who are linking up and teaching each other these skills. One person knows how to blacksmith, another knows how to compost, another knows how to clean a deer, etc. and then they all just take turns holding classes and seminars. For free.
> 
> I would love to find about 3 days every 6 months to go camp out someplace and attend 3 days worth of seminars from likeminded folk on various topics. We could set the locations of these meets in ways that meant nobody had to drive over about 180 miles, work on putting together an agenda ahead of time, and then just schedule out the 3 days with topics people would like to learn about.


I'll host one here in SE OK if there's enough interest for one in this area. 

I have a friend who would be happy to clean a goat while pretending it was a deer. 

I have chickens that we could butcher, and the guy who lives behind me raises quail, he'd probably stop by and butcher a few to teach us how to do that. 

A friend a couple miles away shoes horses. A neighbor across the field has cabins and his daughter has horses and gives trail rides for anyone who might be interested in getting out and about for a few hours. I'm also about a 30 min drive from a lake. :cowboy:

Another friend runs a private "farmers market" at his place and would probably be willing to come over and demo making grits & hominy. He also makes ox yokes and could probably display one and describe how to make them. It takes about 2 months to make one so he couldn't demo that. His wife makes quilts and could teach different stitches, patterns, etc. if there was a interest. He's an old prepper (in his 80's) who would dearly love to pass on much of his knowledge to anyone who's willing to listen. They still live pretty much like our ancestors did and are a wealth of information. 

I have a primitive outside food dehydrator. We could put some fresh veggies in it so everyone could see how it's built, and how simple it is to use. 

I'd have to find someone who can make soap, I have all my soap making supplies packed off and it would be a PITA to retrieve them until next summer. 

I have a lot of hand tools such as a couple grain grinders, mixer, etc for bread making, 2 pressure canners & 2 water bath canners. If others bring their own equipment, we could put together a pretty good 3 day workshop. 

I have 5 acres open for primitive camping, drawback is it's out in the sun, the woodlot is in the far back corner of the property and the trees are so close that it would be hard to set a tent and impossible for a RV. There's a nice little wooded circle in the center of the pasture with a small opening in the center that would make a good "public" gathering place. 

I'm rural enough that we could set up hay bails for bow practice, and targets for any other practice with no problems. I'd simply have to give my neighbors a heads up that it's target practice not a mass murder going on over here. 

Not much water here (shallow well goes dry pretty fast), but a river a half mile down the road. I have a camp shower that could be setup for those who don't have one of their own. I have a hand pump that's still in the box. If anyone knew how to connect it, we could do that as a demo (and I would be thrilled to finally have it working.)

Add to what is available here locally all the skills people will bring with them and we could have a heck of a great workshop! So good it might overflow to more than 3 days... (yes, I tend go overboard with an idea. Somebody always has to hold me in check to keep me from getting too carried away)

I love your idea. It sounds like great educational fun, and with any luck I might find nice new homes for a couple more of the great pyr's that need new homes.


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

If you check out www.survivalpodcast.com they occasionally have regional meetups where they have skills presentations and workshops.


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## NostalgicGranny (Aug 22, 2007)

Mom_of_Four said:


> Of all the people around my age that I know in real life, only one mother cans, cooks from scratch and has a modest pantry. We have one elderly neighbor behind us who cans from the garden, too. Lots of women my age mention that their mothers canned, but they don't - just too busy, takes too much time, it's dangerous, can buy it cheaper, etc.
> 
> The sad thing is that my daughters will leave home without any of this knowledge because they refuse to participate. They tell me all the time that they can't wait to grow up so they can go live in the city. So all the knowledge I've gathered over the years will die with me, or perhaps my sons or their wives will be interested.


This is my big gripe. It SHOULD be a family affair. You want to eat you should be helping with the whole sha-bang. 

Unfortunately it isn't the case in my family either. I started canning when DS27 was really little. Found a copy of Carla Emery's book and was hooked. I see now too late, that I should have made everyone help out with the garden, and putting up. Recruited more helpers instead of trying to do it all on my own. They loved the canned goods, and they should have helped with the chores. 

So if you are just starting out make it a family affair. Don't do it by yourself when the whole family is receiving the benefits.


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## FrontPorch (Mar 27, 2008)

This thread really hits home. My Dad was one of the original back-to-the-landers of the 70s. I grew up with all the animals and gardening. Cooked over a campfire a lot during the summer but we never had a wood stove. Mom wanted no part of that. Now, all these many years later I wish I had paid closer attention. I lost my dad six years ago. I can't tell you how many times I would have liked to call him up and ask him for details on how to do something. 

My kids on the other hand want no part of it. My 21 year old daughter recently moved into her first solo apartment. I asked her for a list of things she needed for her apartment. Figured I'd get her a big basket of stuff for Christmas. She didn't even have a can opener! I immediately made a huge trip to wally world and got her all the basics for her kitchen and pantry. Who knows if she'll use them though. When I dropped them off I realized she was able to live without the can opener because she lives next to a Burger King. (insert rolling eyes)


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Since I homeschooled my children, DD and DS, now 21 & 19, respective to order given? I had cooking & sewing classes. Both of them were taught basic cooking as part of their curriculum. My DS had Childhood Epilepsy, so he couldn't use a needle (eye-hand coordination issue). I taught him how by showing him. My DD learned to sew by creating projects requiring sewing. She can now make her own patterns (I showed her how) and create beautiful clothing and costumes quickly. I also included 3-dimensional drawing, craft projects, sketching, coloring, a little painting... My DS can draw a little, but DS is an artist (can really outdo her artistic mother). Back to the cooking...

DD and DS are both incredible cooks. DD is a gourmet quality cook- amazing food, can cook an entire Holiday meal that is mouth-watering (no failures). The variety of cuisine, of course, outdoes mine. Both of them want dehydrators! DD used to eat fast food, but no any more. She is very discriminating and eats very well. Since she changed her diet, just about 1.5 years ago, her hair began to thicken (like it was when she was a well fed child on Organic Food & Vitamins...). DS gets a dozen natural eggs from me every couple of weeks, dehydrated fruits, and frozen vegetables (my organically grown ones). He tries to eat healthy, but being low on money, doesn't eat as well as he should. Both want to have gardens of their own. I was blown away when my DS asked me to explain a lot more about how I achieve my results. 

It is my hope they aren't so far away (both moving to CO- DS from Seattle and DD from Orlando) if SHTF. 

Question- a bit off the thread, but relevant to survival...and young people...

Have you made sure your children know what to do if they are in a vehicle that is submerging in water? Those three young women died in a jeep, while only in ten feet of water (?!). Out of three of them, not one knew what to do?! All drowned. I found it practically unbelievable. The only thing one did was to call for help, but didn't know where they were. Somehow, while out stargazing, they drove into a pond. That's right, not a deep lake, swift river, but just a pond. I am still blown away by this story.


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## woodsy_gardener (May 27, 2007)

Ernie said:


> They will die.


One of the things I've missed most is Optimistic Ernie, always ready with a warm, encouraging post. 

/snark

Seriously, I have missed your posts Ernie.


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## The Tin Mom (Dec 30, 2008)

Mom_of_Four said:


> Of all the people around my age that I know in real life, only one mother cans, cooks from scratch and has a modest pantry. We have one elderly neighbor behind us who cans from the garden, too. Lots of women my age mention that their mothers canned, but they don't - just too busy, takes too much time, it's dangerous, can buy it cheaper, etc.
> 
> The sad thing is that my daughters will leave home without any of this knowledge because they refuse to participate.* They tell me all the time that they can't wait to grow up so they can go live in the city.* So all the knowledge I've gathered over the years will die with me, or perhaps my sons or their wives will be interested.


If it is any encouragement - that is how I felt - now we have been back in the country for 5 years, I have my own garden & can from it, have goats, have rabbits, etc. 

The city isn't all it seems to be when we are young & the grass isn't always greener. Your daughters may eventually realize that...


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## AbbeyLehman (Jan 2, 2006)

beaglebiz said:


> I totally agree. My dad used to come every Sunday for supper. He always said "This is my favorite restaurant". Makes you feel good to cook for those who appreciate it.
> And I stock spam too


My 8 yo son always says, "Mama, you make the BEST (fill in the blank) EVER!!!!!" I pity the poor boy's future wife--her cooking will never live up to his Mama's


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## NCLee (Aug 4, 2009)

NostalgicGranny said:


> This is my big gripe. It SHOULD be a family affair. You want to eat you should be helping with the whole sha-bang.


Personal opinion coming up!

I can't stress how important this is, especially for those who have young children at home. 

I grew up on a farm. We were expected to do whatever was asked of us to help keep the family going. Chores were age appropriate and were assigned when we got old enough to do them. For example, when it came time to weed the garden, all 5 of us grabbed a hoe and did the work. We simply didn't have a choice. Because it was ROUTINE, we didn't even think about whining, back talk, etc. We knew that when we were done, we could play or do whatever we wanted to do, until the next chore needed to be done. 

One of my earliest memories of chores was to bring in the kindling for the wood cookstove. Dad brought in the larger wood for the wood heater. As we got older, it became our task to bring in all the wood needed for our house, after Dad split it. 

Sure, when I was growing up, I'd rather been doing something else than prepping tomatoes for freezing or the canner. Or peeling potatoes for supper. Or digging those potatoes, for that matter. Back then, whole fresh fish came in from the coast on Friday. It was my job to scale and clean those fish for supper. Sure, I'd rather have been reading a book. But, because it was ROUTINE, when Dad brought the fish home, I cleaned them for Mom. While I might have grumbled to myself, my folks didn't hear it, because I expected to eat some of those fish for supper, myself. 

By keeping us involved, from an early age, we learned the how-to, understood it was to help the family, and enjoyed the rewards of that hard work. Yes, someone had to turn the crank on the freezer to enjoy homemade ice cream. 

If you're a parent, ignore the complaints. They're a natural reaction. When you can give them a choice. If they don't turn that crank, they don't get the ice cream. That was a teaching tool, that our parents used, when applicable. 

Don't lecture. My niece goes into long-winded explainations when she corrects her daughter's inappropriate behavior. Drives me crazy when she says things like "I'm not your friend, I'm your mother." Don't go into long involved details, over and over again, about why it's important to learn to can tomatoes. Save those conversations for times when you're not peeling tomatoes. Maybe around the table when you're eating those stewed tomatoes. A brief comment along the lines of "I'm glad you helped can these tomatoes last summer" will be remembered far longer. 

I think I'm rambling so I'd better close. Get your kids involved as soon as you can. Keep them involved, as a matter of ROUTINE. 

Lee


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Lee- Great to read your Post. I raised my children with these principles, but didn't have a farm or a DH who supported my views on self-sustaining. That said, from gardening, to housework, to putting up food, to sewing and everything I was doing- the kids did it with me. They are very capable young adults and both are great cooks. Now married to a DH who is on the same page as I; all of our children love to come here and help out with our nonstop projects...:banana02: With us not getting younger, we are trying to make decisions to work smarter instead of harder.


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## margoC (Jul 26, 2007)

Barleychown said:


> Or, perhaps we are here, but get so very discouraged when reading comments like this.
> 
> Being prepared has nothing to do with age, or which generation you come from. True, the older folks have a good head start on learning these skills, but I have managed to teach myself canning, sewing, gardening, and most other homesteading skills with no "help" from older generations.
> 
> Maybe instead of focusing on the "generation" mudslinging, we should instead take off the blinders and learn to recognize the homesteading spirit in people of ALL ages.


I don't live in the country, but I do hunt, can, have a small garden, and prep to an extent. The older people I know, esp the women, are as helpless as the younger folks. The lady across the street can't do so much as put air in her tires, operate a cell phone, or even A POINT AND SHOOT CAMERA!! 

Since she does not educate herself about anything, she is kind of vulnerable when it comes to home and auto repairs, or even going on a long trip.

I know a lot of older folks, people my age (Im 52) that have no idea how to utilize the internet. They honestly cannot do not have the wherewithall to tell the differance between an urban myth email, and useful information. I work with a guy my age that prides himself on not knowing how to use a cell phone. 

I think being prepared has less to do with age and more to do with "culture" and expectations. Our society does not value being prepared anymore, they have never gone through a true depression, or worried about being hungry. 

Our society actually values dependance, rather than independance. In schools, and in workplaces "teamwork" is valued over working independantly. Actually the whole concept of "teamwork" has been basterdized where I work. It's looked down upon to address or/and correct employees that are not up to par, so the more abled/ambitious ones are supposed to work "as a team". In other words, instead of people having individual roles that support each other, the "cans" do the work of the "cannot" or "willnots". As a result we lose a lot of ambitious folks to institutions that appreciate them. 

I see it as a "laziness" issue more than a prepardness issue. I don't know if anyone remembers the 911 call that ended in tragedy a few years ago. There was a claim of short staffing, but it was also mentioned that the entire shift went on a break. That was not addressed as a problem. 

By the way, I work in a hospital but I hear similar stories from folks all over the country. 

On a separate note - I am always amazed at the young people that prefer the city life over the country life, esp the ones that have grown up in the country. I attribute this to the glamorization of certain lifestyles over others. It's "cool" to be an underachiever. Cites have more resources for the underachiever - that's why they are like they are. 


Don't worry about the young folks that are not self suffiecent dying, or coming to some other bad ending. The mob will always get what they need. Nowadays it's the ones that plan and prep that are in the most danger. This isn't just conjecture - you can see examples of this all over the world, in South Africa, South America, Europe, the mob continues to grow and take from the ones that do for themselves. Look at California - not one intitlement program has been cut in spite of the budget. Instead,services are being cut all around the country so the "have nots" can "have".


I think this is going to be the greatest danger facing us in the future, and one that people dont' really think about much.


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## margoC (Jul 26, 2007)

Marilyn said:


> My parents didn't can or freeze. We grew up several states away from extended family, so I don't even know if my grandparents did.
> 
> I cannot tell you how I came to the conclusion, but somehow I realized that if my kids didn't at least see me doing it, they wouldn't have any idea that they could too, if they needed to.
> Now for the regret, they never got to listen for the "plink". I think that if I had included them more, they would be more apt to preserve for their own use now. My eldest shows an interest and loves to help me. She lives out of state, so that doesn't happen real often, but I treasure it when it does. My son has married a woman that says she would like to learn. I see some promise there. My youngest? - no chance - ever. That is sad to me.


I only payed partial attention to my mom when she was canning, of course that was because she used water bath to can EVERYTHING so I questioned some of her techniques. 

I wish she was around now so we could can together. [strongsad] I have pressure canners now and can the venison that we kill. My parents used to raise rabbits and had a nice garden, they would have loved canning rabbits if they knew it could be done safely. 

I do remember sitting at the table in the evening and listening for the *plink*. They grew up in the depression and knew how to make it through lean times.


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## Loquisimo (Nov 14, 2009)

The Tin Mom said:


> If it is any encouragement - that is how I felt - now we have been back in the country for 5 years, I have my own garden & can from it, have goats, have rabbits, etc.
> 
> The city isn't all it seems to be when we are young & the grass isn't always greener. Your daughters may eventually realize that...


Youth, meaning teens and twentysomethings, seem to be fascinated with cities. I was too, even lived in San Francisco for a while. Don't worry, it's just a phase, and eventually they'll come back. I now want to live in the forest and have a homestead. (I'm 34, almost 35.)


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## Loquisimo (Nov 14, 2009)

margoC said:


> On a separate note - I am always amazed at the young people that prefer the city life over the country life, esp the ones that have grown up in the country. I attribute this to the glamorization of certain lifestyles over others. It's "cool" to be an underachiever. Cites have more resources for the underachiever - that's why they are like they are.
> 
> 
> Don't worry about the young folks that are not self suffiecent dying, or coming to some other bad ending. The mob will always get what they need. Nowadays it's the ones that plan and prep that are in the most danger. This isn't just conjecture - you can see examples of this all over the world, in South Africa, South America, Europe, the mob continues to grow and take from the ones that do for themselves. Look at California - not one intitlement program has been cut in spite of the budget. Instead,services are being cut all around the country so the "have nots" can "have".
> ...


I think that cities and urban lifestyles are glamorized so much in the media that youth just follow along. Public schools are so bent on indoctrinating kids into communist thinking that most kids come out of HS seriously messed up, and head to the cities to "free the workers" and such. I know in my case that the commies at school were far more powerful than my own parents, and I adopted the communist thinking almost by default. It took a LONG time to work through it. Public schools and the media are a toxic waste soup that most kids marinate in for their entire young lives, and they literally can't comprehend another way. Some eventually come to their senses, some don't.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

I suppose it makes sense that kids see the bright lights of the city as a big lure. Farm work is hard, dirty and unglamorous. Kids who grow up in the city think meat comes in plastic wrap at the store, and don't even consider how it got there. Kids who have worked on farms sometimes want to escape the drudgery and live near malls and dance clubs. 

I always valued home grown food and wanted to live on a farm, although I did have my period of clubbing and malls and high heels. I've worked hard to teach our kids about eating simple, fresh and unprocessed foods. So hopefully one day, maybe not until they have kids of their own to feed, they will come full circle to homesteading.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Mom_of_Four said:


> I suppose it makes sense that kids see the bright lights of the city as a big lure. Farm work is hard, dirty and unglamorous. Kids who grow up in the city think meat comes in plastic wrap at the store, and don't even consider how it got there. Kids who have worked on farms sometimes want to escape the drudgery and live near malls and dance clubs.
> 
> I always valued home grown food and wanted to live on a farm, although I did have my period of clubbing and malls and high heels. I've worked hard to teach our kids about eating simple, fresh and unprocessed foods. So hopefully one day, maybe not until they have kids of their own to feed, they will come full circle to homesteading.


As for me, I only left the farm because there was no farm left ... my family lost our farm like many others did in the late 1980's ... trying to grow the crops the government said to grow. 

However there was something else going on that has driven many kids away from the farm. When all of the media the children are exposed to show the farm as a place of boring drudgery and full of idiots and then contrast the cities as bright and beautiful places full of quirky, interesting, powerful people then of COURSE the children are going to want to leave the farm.

Take for example the rural purge that took place on television in the early 1970's. Although a large portion of the population had moved to the cities by this point, many people still had strong rural roots and enjoyed watching television that reminded them of those days.

The media producers felt that the older, conservative, rural audiences these shows drew were less likely to spend money so they canceled the shows, despite widescale popularity, and replaced them with shows featuring young urban people.

Some examples of shows that were canceled:

Green Acres
Hee Haw
Lassie

They replaced these shows with:

The Bob Newhart Show
All in the Family
The Mary Tyler Moore Show

So the television media made an active decision that rural culture was NOT RELEVANT and replaced it with urban culture. This further fueled the exodus of a whole new generation of farm children who grew up watching shows that portrayed urban life as vastly more interesting. You see it now with shows like Friends and Seinfeld. Why do you think there are so many television shows about New York when only a relatively small fraction of the nation's viewing audience lives in New York or has ever been to New York?

I've said it before and I'll say it again for those with young children. GET RID OF YOUR TELEVISION. You may have bought it, you may enjoy it, and you may pay for its monthly usage but it SERVES A DIFFERENT MASTER. You cannot control the message if you allow television into your home. And if you don't control the message with your children, you have lost them to the world.


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