# Anyone raising Monarch caterpillars this year?



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I started gathering caterpillars a few weeks ago, just after 3 that we were watching vanished one morning. One made a chrysalis but it doesn't look good. It's taking too long and is starting to look brown and gross.

I didn't get my permanent wooden outdoor habitat made so I am going to improvise one. I saw a site where they told how to make something using a tomato cage and 5 gallon mesh paint strainer. Unfortunately when I went to Lowes they didn't have the strainers, didn't even offer to get any in for me. So, back at home I am trying to think of how to set up a temporary habitat. Then I remembered my 4 foot by 18 inch folding tomato cages. Shaped into a hexagon, the legs fit inside one of my largest flower pots. I bought some tulle fabric and plastic clothespins for wrapping the cage. 

I spent some time today digging weeds from beside my deck so I can set the pots there. They will get some morning sun but be shaded by 1:00 pm. It was dark when I was done so I'll have to work on it tomorrow. 

The 5 caterpillars in the other pop up habitat are doing fine. I gave them 2 fresh leaves today and removed the old wilting leaves.

To keep the leaves fresh they cannot just be put in water. The sap keeps the leaf from taking up water. Last year I discovered that the leaves can be stuck in damp sand to keep them fresh. Outside in the sun the leaves last a couple days. Indoors they last several days, long enough for eggs to hatch.

I keep the tiny babies indoors under a light on a timer. It's set to come on just after sunrise and turn off before sunset. Once they get into their second instar and are about an inch long they will be moved into the outdoor habitat. 

I am thinking about sowing milkweed seeds into the planters once the last butterflies have emerged. It will be better to have the caterpillars on growing plants than on broken off leaves.

While cruising the 'net, I saw a really nice 4 foot by 4 foot screen house that I want! It costs over $200 and I'm not sure where I would put it if I did get it.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Glad you're showing concern, but the real problem with the demise of the Monarch is not so much here in The States, but in Mexico.....Almost the entire US population of Monarchs is funneled each winter into a very small area of Mexican mountain forest, and that is being clear-cut at a wholesale rate to plant avocado trees to satiate the American hunger for dip.....Buy only California avocados or Mexican ones with the "Old Growth" stickers on them.

You may find this 30 min presentation on raising Monarchs valuable university place wi public tv monarch butterflies - Bing video


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I wish I had the money to buy up at least some of that over wintering site in Mexico. But I would probably end up like Dian Fossey. 

There are a lot of problems in the US too. Loss of habitat and roadside mowing that takes place during the time Monarchs need it most.

I bookmarked the video so I can watch it later. The woman looks familiar, I think she gave the Monarch talk at the Pawpaw festival last year. That covered a lot of the issues with the Oyamel forests in Mexico. She brought some seedlings to show what they look like.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I got one habitat completed. The 5 largest caterpillars are now inside it, one was crawling up a support, 3 eating leaves and one hanging under a leaf. 

The pop up habitats are nice, but difficult to impossible to clean. When they make a chrysalis on the lid you can't open the lid. I made mine so the entire side can be opened. I can release butterflies or clean the bottom or add leaves without disturbing the rest of the habitat.

I got the frame and flower pot set up for the second habitat. If it isn't raining tomorrow I should be able to finish it. My phone and tablet aren't co-operating so I can't transfer pictures. I'll have to take some with the tablet tomorrow.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Lots of milk weed growing here both the swamp type and the regular type. Just tilled up a patch to plant more seeds this fall.

I have seen a couple monarks around them but so far no catipillers. The ones I have seen could have been males how ever.

Al


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

alleyyooper said:


> Lots of milk weed growing here both the swamp type and the regular type. Just tilled up a patch to plant more seeds this fall.
> 
> I have seen a couple monarks around them but so far no catipillers. The ones I have seen could have been males how ever.
> 
> Al


If you're in a rural location with many volunteer milk weed, the supply of vegetative habitat is in great excess for the number of butterflies--It's the Garden of Eden for them-- minimal competition for resources. You're not ;likely to spot the eggs, caterpillars or chrysalises.

OTOH-- if you read some of the butterfly/Nature sites, suburbanites who plant one or two milk weed will complain that the plants are quickly chewed to oblivion by the caterpillars. Maximum competition for resources.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

There was no milkweed in this area when I moved here. I brought some in and now the only places it is growing are on 2 of my properties. If it comes up in other yards the owners pull it out. 

At one time my back yard was home to over 100 plants, most 8 feet tall. But trees grow and most of that stand is long gone. Right now I have 8 plants in the front yard and 30 or 40 short plants at the garden site. The garden used to have well over 100 short plants, the tallest were around 4 feet tall. But I have found that other plants will crowd and shade milkweed and it dies off. We plan on rehabbing the garden when the weather cools.

I don't complain about my milkweed being eaten. I planted it so it could be eaten.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

This is the new habitat, the frame for the next one is beside it.

The other 2 are the old style pop up habitats. I have had a hard time finding those. The new ones are much smaller with a clear vinyl zipper lid. 
The caterpillars are in their 5th instar and just about ready to make their chrysalis. They are in the new habitat.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I have a lot of milk weed growing in the woods full shade and many other places too out side the woods.

We lost a large amount of milk weed when we had the really really cold spell for many days. Thankfully I save seed every year and replant in the fall so some came up to help reestablish to old patch.


Al


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I am going to save seed from the really tall plants to spread in my pollinator patch after we till it this fall. I also bought seed for butterfly weed and some other types of native milkweeds. 

To be a certified Monarch Waystation you are supposed to have a couple different varieties of milkweed, or have over a certain number of total plants. I want that certification and the diversity of different varieties.

Last summer we visited a friend that had a few butterfly weed plants growing in her yard. Those plants were covered with large caterpillars. The plants were mostly tall flowering sticks with very few leaves. I was jealous to say the least. 

I had hoped my new plants (purchased and started from seed, last year) would have been big enough to help feed this years caterpillars but they just didn't grow that much. Maybe next year they will be big enough.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Monarchs lay their eggs only on milk weed, but he adults don't feed on them, so you need flowers providing nectar for the adults- cone flowers, Canada thistle, etc...They also need "nectar corridors" to get them to your milk weed patches. If yours are the only patches in a large area, they have less of a chance finding yours. Monarch Butterfly Habitat Needs.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Every year I try to increase the number of butterfly attracting plants. Butterfly bush works well for me and so far has not been invasive in Ohio. Purple coneflower, ironweed, joe-pye weed and sedum are also easy to grow nectar sources. Lantana is used at Franklin Park conservatory to feed the butterflies in their greenhouse.

I have discovered that my habitat is not escape proof. 5th instar caterpillars often wander quite far from their food source before they find a suitable place to make a chrysalis. It makes sense, if the food runs out the smaller caterpillars will eat a chrysalis. So far 2 caterpillars have gone on walkabout. At least they were protected from predators long enough to have a good chance of becoming butterflies.

Over the past 2 weeks I have seen wasps, ladybug larvae, lacewing larvae, ants and mantises hunting on the milkweed. I am not sure if ants will eat caterpillars or not but I know the others will.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

With this heat my chosen spot is not working as well as it should. I set up a shade cloth to keep the sun off the habitats. When it cools down later today I will check the possibility of moving the habitats to the north side of the house. There is no milkweed close to that area but they won't be in the sun in the morning. Either that or get a shade cloth and drive in a couple posts to hang it from.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I set up a shade cloth because it's just too hot to do the major renovation needed to move the habitats to the back. This morning the caterpillars are busy devouring their leaves. I will consider using the back yard when and if I get the wood and screen habitat made. I'll sow some milkweed seeds in a pot this fall so I can put a potted plant near the new habitat.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Today I cut whole plants for the caterpillars. There are too many and they are too big for single leaves to satisfy them.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Found a couple tiny newborns on the plants by my front door Sunday. They are in the enclosed habitat.

A male butterfly emerged this morning. He was released about 1:00 pm. 

There are more than a dozen chrysalises hanging in the top of the enclosures now. Several more large caterpillars are rapidly devouring the plants inside. 

I like the way I made these habitats in that I can open the top section without opening the bottom. It sure made releasing the butterfly much easier. 

I just realized I haven't taken pictures since the second habitat was completed. Maybe I'll get some later today.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

A butterfly emerged in the habitat Monday. It was a male and ready to fly when I took him out of the habitat.

Today a female emerged in the habitat. When I walked to the habitat another female flew out from among the tangle of plants growing there. One escapee accounted for.

The caterpillars seem less inclined to wander now that I am putting cut plants in the habitats.

2 caterpillars still indoors, in the process of shedding their skin so I didn't move them. I don't think I will find any more eggs. It's too late in the year for them grow up to become butterflies before the cold sets in.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Sad news this evening. I had set out all the remaining caterpillars except 2 that were in the process of shedding their skins. I took my daughter to her doctor appointment then went shopping. We got home before dark so I went to take the shade cloth off the habitats. First thing I noticed is that the chrysalis that was on a leaf is missing. Then I notice the chrysalis that would have produced a butterfly tomorrow is missing. Then I noticed the hole torn in the netting around the habitat. All the caterpillars are GONE! Even the 3 tussock moth caterpillars are missing. There is a potted plant in the habitat in which the soil was disturbed. One hind wing and part of an empty chrysalis were in the bottom of the habitat. In all my years of raising caterpillars, nothing like this has ever happened! 

5 chrysalises and one ready to turn caterpillar remain. But now I am worried they and the group in the other habitat will also get eaten. 

The most likely culprits are;

Shrew, unlikely since the pot is about a foot tall and the hole in the cloth is 6 inches above that. The chrysalis about to be butterfly was 4 feet up, at the top of the habitat. In all my years of watching our shrews I have never seen one climb. But I could be wrong.

Mouse, this happened during the day but underneath a dark brown sheer curtain. Mice will climb and dig in pots. They also jump. But the hole is a bit big for a mouse and a bit higher than a mouse might reach.

Chipmunk, they have been seen in the area. And chipmunks are first on my blame list for digging in pots.

I set a mouse trap inside the habitat. As soon as the last caterpillar turns I will remove the milkweed and potted plant and try to repair the hole. In a little while I will set the chipmunk trap. 

8 caterpillars and 3 chrysalises just gone! I know it is part of nature but it still ticks me off. There will be a chipmunk proof habitat here next year, unless something happens.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Apparently whatever it was got into the other habitat too. There were 8 caterpillars there yesterday. Only 3 today.

There was a chipmunk in the trap this morning. It won't be getting into any more caterpillars.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I haven't updated this for some time. 4 butterflies emerged Friday, 5 today. 

I lost 2 caterpillars, both just turned to mush. There are only 2 caterpillars remaining.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

I've been following your tribulations...Even with the losses, you're still helping things. Every little bit counts. Thanks.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

3 butterflies today. 2 more males and 1 female. There is one caterpillar left, a 5th instar eating like it will never have green leaves again. It looks a little strange, the black bands are larger than normal. I took some blurry pictures with my phone and will post them later.

The seed pods on the really tall milkweed plants are fat and green. About the time those split open I will get some pots ready and plant some purchased milkweed seeds. I still have butterfly weed and some scented milkweed seed in my box. I lost the orange flowered butterfly weed I grew from seed but the yellow one is showing signs of actually surviving.

There are 2 swamp milkweed plants that I bought last year that I finally repotted. I don't know where I will plant them so they'll just have to stay in pots a while longer.

It was a little late but I killed off another nest of Ringed paper nest wasps today. They had a nest in hubby's tractor which he will be needing in a couple weeks. We usually have several nests of those wasps which eat Monarch and other caterpillars. Some butterfly or moth species produce so many offspring that if they were left uncontrolled they would eat so many leaves that the host plants would be harmed. But every nest I have eliminated this year was in a location where they were a problem for us.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Today I found some sort of chinch bug like critter sucking the guts out of a chrysalis. I'll have to identify it later. It wasn't a stink bug because it didn't smell like one when I smashed it. I know chinch bugs are plant eaters but that is the closest thing to describe it. 










This is the funny colored caterpillar. It is also the last caterpillar. It should make a chrysalis today or tomorrow.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

A male emerged yesterday. It's taking them longer to finish developing because of our little cold snap. 

There was frost on the pumpkins just west of Dayton this morning. I didn't get frost at the house because of a huge tree that overhangs most of the yard. I haven't looked at the garden site yet today.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I have not updated for a while. Several more butterflies have emerged. Some I have seen, others I have not. I left the habitat "door" open because we have been crazy busy lately and there are no caterpillars left. The latest was a female today. I saw her on the top of the habitat around 11:00 am this morning. By noon she was gone. 

There are 3 chrysalids remaining. Our low temperature Saturday morning is predicted to be in the mid 30's. The best I can do is toss a curtain over the habitats but the ambient temperature will be what it will be. Nature will have to take it's course.

I hope the butterflies avoid the very fat female Carolina mantis. She and a male spent a whole day together last week. I don't know if she ate him or he lived to mate another. I'm sorry I missed their separation because I would like to know if the male always gets eaten or they sometimes get away.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Down to one lone Monarch chrysalis. One emerged last week, I got to see it fly off but couldn't determine if it was male or female. Then one emerged over the weekend when we were out of town. The remaining one is ready, black with visible wings. This is the one made by the funny colored caterpillar. I hope it has good weather for it's emergence tomorrow.

There were 3 Monarch butterflies in the butterfly bush a few days ago. That, goldenrod, lantana and some agastache are about all that are still blooming. I hope the killing frost holds off until this last one is well south of the cold weather.

Once this last one emerges I can repair the chipmunk holes and clean the tulle fabric enclosures. I will need to decide if I want to plant some milkweed in the tubs or put potted plants in the enclosures. If I start tropical milkweed before Christmas it might be big enough to support some caterpillars by next July.

My daughter found a Black Swallowtail chrysalis on a ragged tarp. I cut a piece from the tarp and hung it in the habitat. The last Black Swallowtail chrysalis I tried to keep over winter was eaten long before spring. I need to find a good place to hide this one from predators.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The last one emerged today. It was a male. 

Now I need to figure out if I will build a chipmunk proof habitat or try using the tulle fabric covered ones again. Except for the invasion the fabric covered ones worked pretty well. I might not have had the problem if I hadn't put potted plants into the habitats. The only other major problems I had were cleaning up frass, inserting new cut plants and keeping track of the caterpillars. I didn't keep track of things as well as I did previously so I have no idea of real numbers, success and failures. 

I recently read a study which indicated butterflies that emerged from chrysalises kept indoors for even a few days before emergence seemed to have a difficult time orienting themselves.

I would have got some tags from one of our local parks but they didn't have the Monarch programs because of covid. I could have purchased tags directly from Project Monarch Watch but funds were tight this year. Maybe next year.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I was late in getting it done but the habitats were disassembled yesterday. I don't know how I am going to repair the holes in the tulle fabric. It's not as simple as sewing a repair spot over the hole because normal thread won't hold up to the weather. Maybe nylon fillament would work. I'll have to visit the fabric store to see what options are available.

A note for anyone who wants to do this themselves; Milkweed Tussock moth caterpillars will eat holes in your tulle fabric. I found a small hole where the caterpillar had made it's cocoon. The moth had emerged making that the first Tussock moth I have raised successfully. All the others I tried had been parasitised before I collected them.

The Black Swallowtail chrysalis is still hanging on the habitat frame. I need to figure out a way to hide it so birds don't find it, yet still leave room for the butterfly to emerge. I have some leftover fabric which could be used as a shelter, maybe.


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