# Creative ways to mark property lines?



## meanwhile

After a long standing dispute with one neighbor over location of property lines, three of us have decided to share the costs for professional Surveyor to mark the lines. The Surveyor has told us he will mark the lines using re-bar spray painted orange plus use orange tape to hang along the route in trees. 
He also told us it was legal for us to add as much re-bar as we like, along the path he will show us.

We already know of at least seven "corner" spots we would like to place a more permanent marker of some type, to clearly "mark the spot" and use something that will be difficult, if not impossible, to move.

Ideas we have so far:
-One idea was to use three old tires, stack them and then fill with rock. Spray paint if desired. 
-Another idea is to use taller re-bar, hammer into ground, then top with a tube of PVC pipe. Spray paint if desired.
-Use stacked tires, fill up the insides with "great stuff" foam to hold in place, plus stick a long re-bar in the middle.

We do not want to create anything terribly "ugly" .......so the idea was rejected to place old toilets along the property lines.........although it was tempting........

Any other creative ways to mark the property corners? Thank you.


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## haypoint

I heard of an old surveyer that carried a pouch of Iris tubers. When in remote areas, he'd plant the flowers next to the stake. They live for ever and are easy to spot.

Drill a post hole, pound in a chunk of re-rod and pour in some concrete right up to ground level, with a foot of re-rod sticking out. Very difficult to pull that out of the ground.


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## Bear

Pound a good length of rebar in the ground with about 11/2 to 2 foot sticking above ground. Then cement a pile of rocks around it.


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## Alice In TX/MO

If you have native rock, you can also make a column/tube of wire fencing material, then fill it with rocks.

I'd do more than one thing.


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## hillsidedigger

Treated wooden posts standing tall look fine.


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## baldylocks

Not sure about your spot but we put birdhouses on the corners of a property we used to own. You can cement a nice post in place and attach the house.


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## crafty2002

If everyone has agreed to try and mark it exactly where the surveyor says it is, Get together and order a few hundred spruce pine trees or what ever you prefer that doesn't miz in with whats already there. Rent a 2 man post hole digger or even a small back hoe for a day and plant them every 20-30' apart.
Gets the job done and looks great also.


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## agmantoo

What ever you use, have something protruding not less than 4 feet. In so doing the undergrowth will never obscure the marker and a brush/tractor should never run over and destroy the reference. I place "my marker" on my side of the surveyors pin to avoid a further confrontation with a difficult adjacent landowner. If he should then attempt to remove my pin he is trespassing. There is a code for painting property lines and I would also paint "my Marker" accordingly.


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## foxfiredidit

Customary property lines marked on trees with paint in this area follow a simple rule. Choose a tree closest to the property line, (within 1 or 2 ft.) on your side. Mark the tree with two horizontal lines if seen from the adjacent property, then on the other side paint one horizontal line if seen from your property. So, 2 lines seen if someone is coming onto your property, one line seen if someone is going off your property. Works pretty good, doesn't have to be exactly on the line, and is generally understood by most folks.

Corner markers could be anything as described as above. Something tall would be good, but it does need to be identified as a boundary / corner marker in some fashion.


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## edcopp

I like "T" posts, with a milk jug fastened to the top securely.


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## agmantoo

The coding used on trees is not uniform in the whole country. Therefore I did not list the methods. Research for where you live. What is consistent for good marking practice is to take a draw knife and remove the top bark area containing the rough bark only. Then using the best acrylic house paint apply one coat, now make the pass around the property line a second time an apply a top coat. This will last for not less than 15 years.


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## pookiethebear

Our property is marked with tposts on the corners and the survey pins in the back. We went along and added 4' rebar and spray painted them orange at the pins only markers.


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## THETOOLMAN

I dug a deep hole with a post hole digger .I found some old SOLID steel rods at the scrap yard . 7'long 2" around. I pounced them in at the corners & left 3' sticking out. then I put 1 full 80 lb of sackcreat in the hole , then water & stirred it up . this set up & you will need a bull dosier to up root it . I like the idea of flowers & I WILL do this in the fall I have loads of bulbs.


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## agmantoo

pookiethebear, you need to follow some of the suggestions here. The tee post will last 20 years and the survey pins will last until someone wants to pull them up.


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## Gary in ohio

Just keep in mind, ONLY the surveyors marks will matter during any legal squabbles.


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## pookiethebear

you are probably right. I have 400' hedge 5' from the line down one side of my property, and a wild honeysuckle growing around one of the tposts. I think I like the concrete idea, but would prefer something we all could mow over, but then it would also get grown over in time if not taken care of....will have to think on it.


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## RosewoodfarmVA

After disputing with neighbors, we hired a survey of our property, then put up a 4' woven wire fence with barbed on top all the way around, on the exact line. Of course we also used it for our pasture fence, but it serves as a good marker plus keeps out the fool hunters and their dogs. Two neighbors protested our fence and said we were over on them by many feet and they would make us move the fence. We said "show us by a survey" and soon after they had it surveyed and what do you know, the new survey tape followed our posts all the way around! They still disregard the fence at times. Twice they have knocked down a stretch by turning around their farm equipment and snagging the wire fencing with the back of their disk (neither times did they tell us, thank God the cows didn't find it!), and they still come on over it if their hunting dogs get in or if they see a turkey or deer they want. On 123 acres it's hard to "police" the whole thing. But my recommendation is to survey, then put up a permanent "pasture" type fence to mark the exact line. Don't put the fence on your prop a ways, or you're giving them that part of your land.


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## Rocky Fields

Hey.

Steel t-posts stay in place better than rebar. In some places the rebar is buried and you need a metal detector to find it. Put a pile of rock around the corner markers.

RF


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## meanwhile

Thank you everyone for the ideas. We are armed and ready for tomorrow's Survey Party. The neighbors who have agreed to help pay for the Survey and my sons have all planned for a Party to help make the event more pleasant (even though it will be 94 - 96 here tomorrow....). We have re-bar, PVC pipes and caps, all sorts of spray paint, orange plastic tape, caps for the re-bar, and more spray paint and the first of a load of used tired to fill up with rocks, dirt and cement!

We plan to take photos all along the way, as the Survey man makes his marks, then put the re-bar or PVC in place........and the tires and rocks at corner places......and we are also going to take video too.

The neighbor who complains about the lines does not live here full-time and our plan is to have the lines marked, then send her photos and a statement from the Survey Company. She has NOT been invited to the "Survey Party"!

I like the idea of the T-Posts too.......we will have to pick some up later in week.

Thanks! 

PS: don't try to fill up a tire with "great stuff" since one whole can will not even fill half a tire! We were trying to find a light weight way to fill the tire holes......but that won't work......I think we will just put them in place and worry about the rats/mice/wasps later. 

Thanks!


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## kabri

We used tposts as well, and put 10 foot long white pvc pipes over them. Sure makes it easy to see where the line is on our very wooded, uneven ground.


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## hillsidedigger

"Thank you everyone for the ideas. We are armed and ready for tomorrow's Survey Party."

If tomorrow is the first visit by the survey crew to the site, they may not be marking anything. Depending on the size and scope of the project and whether or not the licensed surveyor is very familiar with the neighborhood, the first visit to the site by the survey crew may involve mere looking around and possibly taking preliminary random measurements which may need to be analyzed back at the office so that on a return trip to the site the survey crew can actually mark corners and lines.

FWIW, I'm a self-employed licensed land surveyor in WNC.


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## hotzcatz

I set round metal fence posts in at the corners. Concreted in, too. Around here the usual survey pins are either railroad spikes or a bit of rebar set in concrete and only stick up maybe 3" above ground. They are really hard to find so once I found them I planted a post alongside them on my side of the pin. If I had a surveyor along to authorize the posts, I would have set the posts directly on the property line corners. For putting up fences, I like to put them 1" inside the line on my side just so nobody else can have any say over the matter.

I know of some folks who had trees planted on the property lines. Now half the tree is on the neighbor's lot and half the tree is on their side so there is some dispute over if the tree should come down or if a branch falls and damages something who's tree it is. If I were planting trees, I'd plant them so when they were full grown they would not have their trunk in the neighbor's yard. I'd also plant fruit trees or something I could eat and put them far enough back that they wouldn't be in the neighbor's yard, but that's just me.

Oh, if using something to mark your property line, if it is metal spikes in the ground, they can be found later with a metal detector. PVC doesn't work for metal detectors. Metal spikes are also low enough to mow over if you mow the area.

(Hey, Kabri - nice dog!)


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## meanwhile

Hillsidedigger: Hello neighbor! You are close to us I bet. We are down in Saluda section of Polk County. Yes, the area has been Surveyed before. In fact, everyone out here already has plats / deeds / maps and more maps. The properties (four owners now) were part of one huge family owned tract. In the mid 1900's, they began to chop it up and according to local history (from the locals we have met and from two former owners) the property lines in question have been the topic of hot dispute for years. I am pretty sure I know where the lines are and when I called the Survey Company, he said he knows where they are too and that re-bar was put down before......at least twice! 

Some re-bar is in place......in two spots and I for one (two other owners agree) believe those four re-bars to be in the correct places. One owner disagrees and he/she has been so annoying.......to now obnoxious........about it (telling the rest of us to move shrubs, not to landscape, not to maintain one driveway, that they plan to fill in two drain ditches, not to allow the children to hike in one section......and worst of all.....that we should not make use of the main Creek on the land)......that it is best to have the survey done and marked.

We cannot find re-bar in seven other places even though, when we first moved here we did find it.......someone has removed the re-bar! Be that as it may ........tomorrow we will have fresh re-bar and can mark it with more re-bar, Tpost, tires and cement. 

We also plan to take digital photos and video all along the way, provide the Contrary Property Owner with copies and then move on with our lives, projects including planting more camellias right where I want to plant them!

Thank you again everyone for the ideas! Will let you know how it goes tomorrow.


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## jill.costello

We lived in Texas for a time, and the rebar corner markers were a joke (when every self-respecting cattleman had a front-end loader and a chain and could just pull them up at will).

CEMENT and alot of it, deep, is the only way to PROVE your marker was moved.....

Good Luck!!


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## DW

from Kansas...love 'em!


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## empofuniv

At our desert place we have the trail in marked w tires that are stacked and filled w rock and sand. It has been marked like that for about 10 yrs now and has lasted through several flashfloods. Folks around there call that wash 3 Tire Trail now.

The corner markers of 10' lengths of PVC were there when we bought the place. They are placed over T posts. We did cap the tops of them after I removed one from it's post and found the mummified remains of a bird that had fallen down in the pipe and couldn't get out.


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## diamondtim

Galvanized culvert pipe, 24-36" tall, buried 1 foot (or deeper depending on freeze level) filled with concrete. Hard to miss and hard to move.


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## Wags

When I was a kid we had property corners marked with 4-6" pipe (I just remember they were big!) that were buried in concrete and filled with concrete. Stood about 6ft tall and were painted bright yellow. There was no missing where our property line was. Visited the old place a few years ago, and the yellow has faded a bit, but there still is no way anyone can miss those corners! 

If you were concerned about the entire line, you could place one of those type of posts at the corners and then one every 50-100 ft depending on topography.


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## FreeRanger

Good fences make good neighbors!

I have experience the irons being dug up because they didn't want to deal with the truth. Over $1,000 to have the irons put back in. Felony offense in Wisconsin. Law made be on your side but that does not mean they will in force the law.

Put the fence sametime you pay for the survey. Very hard to pull up a fence and not have it noticed. Any thing else can be moved, removed or destroyed. Even a single strand of barb wire on T-post is better than some homemade markers that are not legally recognized by laws. Fences are recognized by laws, police and the DA. Move or destroy a fence and people take notice. Move or destroy markers and it's just a simple civil dispute involving lawers not the police or DA.

PUT UP A FENCE!


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## FreeRanger

Here the kind of fence to use with some neighbors:duel:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080804/ap_on_fe_st/odd_car_fence;_ylt=AmhP9TLSA0uNBvzkTnyIf9as0NUE:dance::clap::bouncy:


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## nc_mtn

Free Ranger.... you beat me to the post.... I've been waiting all day to "share" that story... : (


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## mdharris68

razor wire works, keeps the bad guys out or in, whichever way you want to look at it.


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## meanwhile

Today we spent 7 hours out in the heat with the two men sent out by the survey company. None of the property lines are where we were told the lines were. The former owners we bought from showed us lines but those are apparently not the lines. The former owners on two other sides also showed us lines but those are not the lines either. Part of "our" actual land goes over the other guys road (to which I was told I had no right to go......but if it is my land, then I would think I have some rights to it even if someone built a road on it?)......and then part of their land is on my "side" of the road and up in landscaping/planting areas where even the former owners had planted. So, now should I move all my camellias? Further down, where we had been told the creek was the line, the survey today said the line is actually not in the creek but is up the bank.

We are not sure what we can do next. We are disappointed but will think it over and try to decide what to do next. 

Before buying any property - go get a new survey and MARK IT right then with something that cannot be moved. 

Thanks everyone.


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## THETOOLMAN

If it is MY land ... I will do as i please . Road ? Thank you I needed one. If you want to stop people driving on your land on an illegal road, call the sheriff & ask him to come out & talk. tell him you want to fence all your land in and you want to keep every one on there side 100%. He will go notify the guy next door to get his road off your land.. DO IT NOW!! because they are out there tonight moving the stakes!! WHAT?? Move the markers?/you bet they are . call the law Not for trouble BUT just to have them *ON YOUR SIDE*.. and for petes sake plant your bushes On _your line_ Dan


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## nathan104

So was the property owner you have been having the boundary dispute with right since yours lines where not where you thought they were? If so, are you still going to send copies and pictures as stated before? 

You are definitly right though, always have a survey performed before buying a place.


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## FreeRanger

I hate to say it but I would be consulting two people ASAP. Lawyer and second surveyor.

One look for a legal advice on land disputes. Here in Wisconsin, the irons in the ground don't mean as much as you think they do..neither does the presents of a recent survey map...look for all the historical legal descriptions. That's really were the laws of possession apply. Most property lines at or near creeks are described as the "center of the creek" with know acceptance that the creek moves so does the property line. Any irons are just markers for a certian date and reference. 

Send the surveyor into the records to look for these legal documents. You can do it your self if you know what to look for. Then have the land surveyed again noting all existing fences. In Wisconsin the fence over rules the legal description sometimes as well as the existing irons in the ground. All of which stay that way after it's surveyed.

So the existing fence is the property line...get out there and look for old fence posts that have been knocked down. Take your metal detector.


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## meanwhile

Nathan104: My lines are not where we thought they were and neither are hers! She does not own Creek One (that she thought was her's) and I do not own Creek Two (which I thought was mine!), and she does not own one embankment with drains (that she thought was her's) and I do not own one post of a gate that I thought was mine, and her road bed is on MY land and my camellias are on HER land! It is a mess. 

Total land wise, it is about an equal mess. The Creek Two problems creates more problem for me in that I need the water. We plan to ask them to help straighten out the lines to benefit us both. BUT first we plan to ask the two former owners to come out, walk lines with us again, to see if the survey man made a mistake and yes, we need a 2nd survey too.

Yes, FreeRanger, we plan a trip to the courthouse to gather up all the documents. 

Thanks everyone.


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## farminghandyman

a good Rail Road tie will last for about 70 years,


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## Tricky Grama

We've found hundred + year old markers on our land. They are cement & not very big. Some are partially covered in dirt. Don't know if they were the legal 'markers' at that time or not.

Patty


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## fantasymaker

Ilike to put a rod in the grond as deep as I can but at least a foot below the dirtlevel then put a Pipe with a cap over that at least 5 feet tall and 4 feet in the dirt.
If someone moves the pipe the rod is still in the ground undetected yill you look for it with a metal detecter


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## Stephen in SOKY

Do you have title insurance?


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## meanwhile

Update! The Survey owner came out on Friday (with the other two men) and the good news is that we DO own part of the larger creek and we own all of the smaller creek. The first survey men who came out (last Monday) admitted they had "eye balled it" and not actually used the instruments since the woods were too thick! We found old survey marks on trees, plus the former owner told us where to find the metal rod in the creek. They put new marks on trees, new rods down and the orange ribbon too so we can further mark it.

The survey lines that the first men had told us were "property lines" are not - they are easement lines! We still own everything on the front side of the property that we thought, it is just that I will need to move some important plants (my Great-Grandmother's Camellias) to be sure they are never bothered if the other folks exercise their rights to the easement area. 

We also "own" a little chunk that is actually the other folks main road to their main gate. It juts out into and across the road. But, it is on a section of my property that I do not use and have no plans to use, and so their road is OK too. 

We did go on and put several metal rods (we painted ours a different color to be sure they are distinct from the Survey man's rods) and we have a stack of old tires to put in place with rocks and dirt filling them. 

We are thrilled and very relieved. Thank you again for all the good advice, suggestions and links. We appreciate the help. 
Edit/Delete Message


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## jp_over

fantasymaker said:


> Ilike to put a rod in the grond as deep as I can but at least a foot below the dirtlevel then put a Pipe with a cap over that at least 5 feet tall and 4 feet in the dirt.
> If someone moves the pipe the rod is still in the ground undetected yill you look for it with a metal detecter


This is an old thread but still has lots of great lessons learned. I'm in the process of deciding how to mark our land (raw, 16 acres, recent survey) and have found some great info here.


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## alleyyooper

Here is how we marked our property line. Soon to have woven wire hanging on the post.



 Al


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## oldtruckbbq

alleyyooper said:


> Here is how we marked our property line. Soon to have woven wire hanging on the post.
> 
> 
> 
> Al


That will be hard to argue against.


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## reubenT

As for creative property markers, The most creative corner call we ever heard of was one that was listed as "where ?? killed a bear" (?? = name of the man which I don't remember) Good luck on figuring that one out a few generations later. But it was probably an epic event at the time that everyone knew about. That came from a man who paints lines for a big timber company nearby.

A complication we ended up with was that we bought 80 acres back in 1985, some years later a neighbor harvested timber and that got us to wondering where the exact line was tween us and them. We get their survey compared to ours and they did not match by a long ways. A large piece of property was between us on the back half. We finally discovered the surveyors in the 70's had just randomly placed a line on the old field fence and not bothered to look for the old survey map, and dropped 20 acres off of our place. it was 100 originally. Which had left that 20 in limbo. Technically anyone could come along and lay claim to it. So us and our neighbor behind the other way got it resurveyed and reclaimed it. He paid for the survey so he got the land but he gave us the timber which I harvested. But before that was worked out most of the timber had been harvested by the neighbor below, they knew it wasn't his land, the money was supposedly saved for us. But when it came down to it the money somehow evaporated. Each party, neighbor and logger, claimed the other had it. So we just dropped the issue. We finally figured out the logger probably spent it on drink. One of the corner calls on that piece of land was on a black gum tree. The surveyors with their GPS accuracy put it in the middle of a logging road. No sign of any black gum. I marked it with an axle rod that would leave a flat round plate on ground surface and the axle almost fell into the ground with ease. Ah! an old stump hole. The survey we were going by was around 100 years old.


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## jp_over

alleyyooper - nice job!


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## GTX63

Yes, that is a nice job. We have areas of thick, heavy timber that we cut trails along the perimeter/edge of the property lines. We also planted t posts, painted the tops, blaze marked trees as well as making copies of the last survey in case we ever needed to distribute a copy or two. 
Even along pasture, perimeter trails, hedgerows and saplings are a good way to keep things sorted.


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## Fire-Man

alleyyooper said:


> Here is how we marked our property line. Soon to have woven wire hanging on the post.
> 
> 
> Al


That's how I did mine, But I used 3 strands of barbed wire, then planted pine tree's 2 and 3 rows wide. The rows are 2ft apart and the tree's are staggered 3ft apart----sure to close for timber tree's but perfect for what I wanted. After a few years of growth-- A 4 wheeler can cut the fence, but will also have to cut a tree or two to get onto my land now. Recently I had a neighbor dog problem so I put a GOOD hot wire down that side of the property on the T post between 2 strands of the barbed wire. That worked Great.


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## Chris in Mich

My father is a surveyor of 50 yrs -- not so creative, but most old corners are denoted with an x-marked stone and colored glass. Running brush line with him as a kid we would use orange-ribboned lathe stakes to denote the property line but they are not long-lived. There was a movie i saw once where the owners used old pianos to help delineate their property -- trying to funnel deer or some-such


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## AmericanStand

The ultimate corner marker
Drill 4 foot deep hole a foot in diameter 
Put a 6 way tee on the bottom of a 2 inch pipe 4 foot pipe and place in hole. Run at least a 6 foot solid rod through the pipe through the T and and at least a foot below ground level. 
Poor a foot of concrete in the bottom of the hole. 
If you want fill the hole full of concrete to ground level. 
Then put a rebar in the pipe setting on top of the solid rod. 

Here is the thought behind it. 
Someone that wants to move the corner picks up the rebar moves it but you’ve got a metal pipe in the ground at ground level to prove it. 
Someone smart might find that pipe extending up to the ground surface and yank that thing out of the ground.
But the chances are pretty good they would never think about another steel bar inside of that that will likely stay in the ground Even if they pull out the cemented in pipe. 
Now set a witness post 5 feet away at a 45° angle to the fence lines inside your property .
Make that witness The same as the first one except terminate it 6 inches below ground level


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## alleyyooper

More line.









Disputed area
























Need to remove a few more trees.



 Al


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## sweetbabyjane

Well, I was going to say mark the corners with your GPS, or offer to buy (or sell) an acre from/to the neighbor to in the disputed area, but this is an old thread and probably long resolved. :/

SBJ


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## AmericanStand

It’s an old thread but it’s also an old problem. 
As someone else said before though the best way to mark a corner is with a well-built fence exactly on the line.


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## Fishindude

After the surveyor did his thing, I marked several of my borders with large (24"+) boulders placed right on the line every 50 yards or so. There are multiple piles of these rocks around the farm, so I just pick them up with forks on the loader tractor and put them where needed. They're also free, can't be easily moved and keep things looking natural.


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## Shrek

When I had my property surveyed after a dispute with the guy who originally bought the adjoining tract and covered the survey pins by pouring a gravel road to the pond on the back of his tract over the pins and 20 feet onto my property , I had the surveyor return , metal detector find and uncover the pins and I drove 6 foot tall T posts beside the pins on my side of them and covered the pins on that side with crown caps used on chain link fence gates to protect the plastic ID caps and gave him a week to reclaim his gravel and relay it the required distance from the line on his own property

Later I T post and crown marked all of the survey pins and 25 years later all of the pins are still marked and the ID caps readable to the original survey and were used to make the survey when I bought that adjoining 5 acres deep , acre and a half wide with 2 story cottage when the folks he sold to outgrew it and didn't like the long thin tract so I got to increase my property, get a pond and turn the small house into my sideline business office and onsite warehouse of a retail business I located there until the building was damaged beyond rebuild value due to a tornado or microburst .


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## alleyyooper

The federal goverment marked there property line beside our deer camp with 8 foot galvinized pipe and a brass cap rivited top with the cordnances on the corners. 4"x4" wood post about every 50 there after, signs read beyond this post is federal land.


 Al


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## Alder

No hassles here. Two sides of the farm are defined by county roads. The west side is a tree-line...my side is hayfield, the neighbors is woods and an old barb-wire fence from prolly back in the 40's. It's darned close to perfect on the line. The south side line runs right through a big hayfield. Each of us harvests our own side, but we leave an established strip of about 3-4 feet that we don't mow...to mark the line. Been like that for about 40 years and no problems so far.

There is a trout stream, and a pond involved. I own the north part and the north end of the pond, the neighbor the south part. Nobody uses it but us, and then, rarely. Google maps is pretty obvious where the line is...no hassles. Keeping good relations with your neighbors is VERY important. Don't build close to the line, and don't sweat the small stuff.


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