# Thistles



## L&Jfarms (Jul 16, 2008)

My pasture is being overtaken by thistles! We graze 60 head of beef cattle, and need all the grass we can get. The thistles are just overtaking the pasture. What can i do to STOP and KILL them?


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

L&Jfarms said:


> My pasture is being overtaken by thistles! We graze 60 head of beef cattle, and need all the grass we can get. The thistles are just overtaking the pasture. What can i do to STOP and KILL them?


Don't know where you are or what type of thistles you are talking about, but, around here we control thistles with spraying 2-4-D while small. In the fall a mix of 2-4-D and Tordon on the rosette stage gives very good results. Check with your local extension agent for specific recommendations.


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## L&Jfarms (Jul 16, 2008)

I live in eastern Iowa. Do i spot spray the thistles? What could i use to spray the entire pasture, and only have it kill the thistles?


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## rancher1913 (Dec 5, 2008)

i've had good luck spot spraying with 2-4-d. have to do it several times a season to get a good kill. the weaker the spray the better they will break off underground if you hit them with to strong a solution. it takes about a week and a half to know i've even sprayed.


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

I spot spray the thistles we get here in Virginia with 2,4-D. It kills almost every type of broadleaf weeds and grass, including clover and lespedeza. That's why I spot spray. I want the clover and lespedeza.

I use a 4 gallon backpack sprayer with a hand pump. It does well, but if I had my druthers, I'd have one of the battery powered electric jobs.


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## DarleneJ (Jan 29, 2012)

Don't spray 'em, eat 'em...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAVZVqt2-kA&feature=related]Wild Thistle : Edible and Medicinal Uses - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2UHyZi53Ts&feature=fvwrel]Identifying and Harvesting Wild Thistle - YouTube[/ame]


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## L&Jfarms (Jul 16, 2008)

Thanks for the help everybody! Looks like i will be spraying ALOT.


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## collegeboundgal (Jul 17, 2005)

I have a aunt who will walk the property with a shovel (the really narrow type) and dig them up by the roots as they come back every yr from the same root. all I can say is, that woman is an inspration for me...


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

I use pruning shears long handle and thick leather gloves but i use the pruners to pick them up .I cut right next to the ground ..and just cut throw in my 4 wheeler trailer and take to one spot and burn if you do this they do not come back next year... also the dead plant will not be there to stick the cows.....I chopped cotton as a kid it is not that hard....


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Run one or two goats with the cattle. Goats love thistles.


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## Cindy in KY (May 10, 2002)

Thistles are actually "Illegal to Ignore" here. They do blow on the wind and take over crop land. We use the shovel when they are small walking our 12 acres. Plus we used the riding mowers.

I was wondering if I cut it off with the shovel and then poured a bit of salt on the stem in the ground if that would kill it?


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## Valmai (Sep 29, 2004)

Cindy in KY said:


> Thistles are actually "Illegal to Ignore" here. They do blow on the wind and take over crop land. We use the shovel when they are small walking our 12 acres. Plus we used the riding mowers.
> 
> I was wondering if I cut it off with the shovel and then poured a bit of salt on the stem in the ground if that would kill it?


I used to have a serious problem with thistles, I sprayed heaps but they kept coming back. The following season I was late starting so I went round first cutting off the flower heads (so they wouldn't reseed) and hung them in a plastic bag on the washing line until they went mouldy and dead, then burnt. Then I went round and cut the stems off at ground level and poured a bit of salt in the wound. It was a mission but it only took that one season to cure a BIG problem. I used a plastic tomato sauce bottle filled with salt with a hole in the lid and just had to squirt a bit of salt onto the stem. Leave the stems on the ground the cattle will eat them once they wilt a bit.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

DarleneJ said:


> Don't spray 'em, eat 'em...
> 
> Wild Thistle : Edible and Medicinal Uses - YouTube
> 
> Identifying and Harvesting Wild Thistle - YouTube


I agree with this. I ate one last night for the first time. They taste like a better version of broccoli IMO. You can eat most of the plant however the root and leaves are not really worth the effort but the stalks and seeds are great.

You can eat raw or cook like any other veggie but the video's I watched said they are better if left a little crisp so a light steam or quick stir-fry sound like some of the best options.

Seriously - they are good and good for you.


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## Jay (Feb 5, 2008)

Thistles thrive in low-calcium soil. Do a soil test and balance your soil and they won't come back. 

This is from one of the weeds books from AcresUsa:
"weed control lies in fertility management. Every weed grows in a somewhat narrow window of allowable soil conditions. For example, burdock grows in soils with very high levels of iron and sulfate, very low levels of calcium and manganese. Balance the soil, lose the weed."
Here's another one:
âLow biological activity is inherent in each weed problem ... Each weed is keyed to a specific environment slotted for its proliferation.â

It's simple and can be complicated. Feeding the soil feeds what is feeding you. :cow:


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## loghome mom (Oct 10, 2005)

I agree Jay. What book are you referring to from Acres USA? It sounds like something we would be interested in.


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

L&Jfarms said:


> I live in eastern Iowa. Do i spot spray the thistles? What could i use to spray the entire pasture, and only have it kill the thistles?


If you are in a location where it is safe and have a lot of thistles over a large pasture, you might check into aerial spraying. This is done a lot in my area of Kansas. A spray plane can do a very good job if you have too much to be practical for spot spraying and can cover areas like ditches and ravines that are difficult to reach on the ground. Not the cheapest way to go (I think a crop duster around here charges about $8 per acre plus the cost of chemicals), but very effective. In Kansas musk thistles are a noxious weed and you are required to control them, if you don't , the county can spray them and bill you for it.

edit; 2-4-D won't hurt any grasses but will affect other broad-leaf weeds .


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

We just let the donkeys eat the thistle heads.... they love them.


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## Jay (Feb 5, 2008)

Weeds are an index of the character of the soil. *Herbicides, then, deal with effect not cause*. 
And it is why you have to keep re-applying it.
Get the soil balanced and stop paying for sprays.....I am frugal enough not to keep buying the stuff, it's a waste of my money. 

Here is the Acres weed books:
Acres U.S.A. -- A Voice for Eco-Agriculture


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

Jay said:


> Weeds are an index of the character of the soil. *Herbicides, then, deal with effect not cause*.
> And it is why you have to keep re-applying it.
> Get the soil balanced and stop paying for sprays.....I am frugal enough not to keep buying the stuff, it's a waste of my money.
> 
> ...


Jay, with all due respect, sometimes it isn't practical to "balance the soil". I have 600 acres of native flinthills pasture, complete with hills, draws, flint rock and more flint rock outcrops as well as limestone ledges. Some of this ground only sees the occasional cow, snake, or jack rabbit. :cowboy:


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Adding some Banval aka Dicamba to the 2-4d will help take 6hem down if they'rve already bolted.

ksfarmer 

The dreaded musk thistle. Have they released any of the weavils up there that feed on the plants and heads?


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## Gabriel (Dec 2, 2008)

L&Jfarms said:


> My pasture is being overtaken by thistles! We graze 60 head of beef cattle, and *need all the grass we can get*. The thistles are just overtaking the pasture. What can i do to STOP and KILL them?


You can get two birds with one stone by improving your grazing management. Read the _rotational grazing_ sticky at the top of this forum if you haven't already.


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## Maria (Apr 24, 2003)

We had a bunch of thistles on our place when we first moved here. I got rid of them by mowing them right as they started to bloom- the theory being that the plants will bleed to death at that time.

I did that for a couple of years in a row and pretty soon there were no thistles and the grass we had planted took over. Since we cut that field for hay a couple of times a year, the thistles now cannot get established again.

We are starting to get them in our yard, though, after 3 years of using sheep as lawn mowers. They eat everything BUT thistles.  So this year I'm conducting a war on thistles in the yard. Every few days I go out with a hoe and chop the ones I find down- cutting pretty deep into the root to do it. I hope that will be adequate. We'll see.


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## WJMartin (Nov 2, 2011)

I have more thistles this year than ever! We are coming out of a drought and I have never seen so many weeds and cactus in the pasture. This is the first time I have ever seen burdock, thankfully there is only one, killing starts today. Need to turn off computer and go get salt and pruners and get to work.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

why I burn my thistles if you just cut them down and they have a seed head...that seed head has a 100 seeds in it and some of them will still mature with the plant cut off and dry and come up next year...when I started burning it all stopped...

....I also know no matter what your soil is if your neigbor or the road ditch has thistles and does not take them out before the seed podes go in the wind YOU WILL HAVE SOME IN 2 YEARS no matter your soil not millions but some


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

They are very responsive to Roundup. I spot spray on a a day without absolutely no wind.

I only did mine one year and haven't seen any since. They are distinctive looking. You can spray them when they are barely up. Saves on the amount of spray you use.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

Jay. I gotta tell you, thistles also thrive in high calcuim soil that I have. And I do some spot spaying every year.
LJ Thistles are mostly biennial. Fall spray with grazon is very effective. If the thistles start to stalk, many hericides are not effective. Ally works great then.
You have already been preached at, so I will refrain from that and give you a couple of observations. Here distu;rbed dirt like badger hole or new fence post will likely have a thistle next year. The more residue and grass left in the pasture in the fall the less thistles next spring.


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

bruce2288 said:


> Jay. I gotta tell you, thistles also thrive in high calcuim soil that I have. And I do some spot spaying every year.
> LJ Thistles are mostly biennial. Fall spray with grazon is very effective. If the thistles start to stalk, many hericides are not effective. Ally works great then.
> You have already been preached at, so I will refrain from that and give you a couple of observations. Here distu;rbed dirt like badger hole or new fence post will likely have a thistle next year. The more residue and grass left in the pasture in the fall the less thistles next spring.


Agree 100 % .....My soil has a ph of 8.9 ,and boy do the thistles thrive.
The Canada thistle gives me more grief then a gold digging ex wife . 
~ blush ~


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

Allen W said:


> Adding some Banval aka Dicamba to the 2-4d will help take 6hem down if they'rve already bolted.
> 
> ksfarmer
> 
> The dreaded musk thistle. Have they released any of the weavils up there that feed on the plants and heads?


Allen; yes, we released the musk thistle weavils several years ago, and, they do make a difference. It seems they are especially effective on the early flowering plants. They don't eradicate the thistle but do seem to be helping on thick infestations.


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## Jay (Feb 5, 2008)

Each soil/geographic area provides unique opportunities for weeds, and they do adapt. 
I wasn't preaching, merely pointing out a few things. Some folks like to think outside the box. I know it won't change minds when it comes to spray/no spray.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

Jay, that wasn't directly at you or anyone in particular, but overall tone. I am in total agreement with organic methods, where they can be applied, my garden is such a place. I see an attitude amoung many that if it can be done in a garden or small acreage that it should be able to be done anywhere. It probably could if adequate labor and rescources(Money) were available.
Let's look at L&J situation. 60 beef cattle depending on class, cows, calves or yearling as to how much pasture is involved. I would expect at least in excess of 100 acres. In my area 60 cows would need 300 acres of pasture. He states that the thisles are "overrunning the pasture". Hand digging a 100 acres of badly infested pasture would be a monumental task, ie not very feasible. The cost to totally optimize soil with NPK, micronutrients and pH would run hundreds of dollars/acre and still not solve the thistle problem this year.
If this is as bad as it sounds with;out some chemical control, the neighbors, county weed board and his cattle are not going to be happy.
A couple other comments. Thistles do not come up from the root, If you cut the root an inch below the soil line it is done. If you leave any stalk or leaf it will regrow and bloom.
I have thistle weavils in this area, they do destroy a lot of seed but will not control thistles . In nature creatures usually do not eliminate their food scource as that results in their elimination.
Now a true story. Afew years ago we had a grasshopper outbreak in my area. This was not a few hopper eating some bean in the garden this was in plague perportions. 40 foot pine trees killed, mature mulberry tree killed, one guys painted fence posts had the paint all eaten off. A 30-50 border of my alfalfa fields were killed, not just eaten killed, did not come back the next spring. In my creek pasture the grass on the creek bank berm was killed the next year I had wall to wall thistles and have been fighting that area since.
As I alluded too in my statement about leaving residue and ungrazed grass in the pasture decreasing thistle problems, I would guess that the grass sward in J&Ls pasture is less than optimal resulting in the thistles getting a foot hold. Overgrazing is the most common cause of this, either overstocking, grazing too early or too late in the season, or poor growing conditions. AS WJMartin stated after the drought damaged his grass sward weeds are filling the space.
Off my soapbox


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

ksfarmer said:


> Allen; yes, we released the musk thistle weavils several years ago, and, they do make a difference. It seems they are especially effective on the early flowering plants. They don't eradicate the thistle but do seem to be helping on thick infestations.


They defnently help on keeping the plant numbers down.


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