# New to LGD's and being given 12 week old great pyrenees, need he



## BrokeFarmerJohn (Mar 11, 2016)

I'm new to here and new to LGD's, so here's my story, I own 3 acres, just got into chickens last fall, my hens are laying, demand for quality eggs are high in this area so I'm starting another 25-30 hens in about a week. I had the option to make a chicken run or let them free range in a fenced in small pasture, like 1/4-1/2 acre I would say, just where there is existing fence attached to the barn. I was given a opportunity to be given a 12 week old great pyrenees female with a good blood line. She's not registered but I can confirm full blooded, but right now she is a pet and has no experience or exposure to guarding a flock. Her mom was 1 of 3 outside dogs guarding a wealthy persons house, the father was a pet. The current owner says she's watchful and protective and at her age watches his grandkids, not letting them walk away too far in the yard from the house, when she meets new people she will walk up to that person and won't really greet you but will just check you out. My question is could I successfully train her to look after my flock of poultry, 70+ chickens or is she too much of a pet to take to looking after chickens? Also how long will training take? The barn is about 100 yards from the house, I want her to live in one of the 3 stalls where the chickens are with access to the outside small fenced in pasture but I'm lost to how to train her. I haven't even picked her up yet, I read that there's no bad great pyrenees just bad owners, I have looked at training methods but like one guy stated if you ask 10 LGD owners you will get 10 different answers on the right way to train the dog. So I need help on this, idk if I should show the dog affection with treats when it does what I want like I have trained every other dog I have ever had or just be all business and no play type deal. I have a 100lb fixed male German Shepard in the house, he knows the basics, No, Sit, Stay, Laydown, Shake ext, I can say "Who is it" and he instantly runs to the window to look outside to see if someone is in the driveway and he usually barks, I taught him to come into the chicken coop with me, he will very slowly walk around like he's stalking the chickens because he knows any faster, they will fly, he won't chase them, if I command him to stop or say his name he will ignore the chickens and Laydown in the middle of the coop watching both me and the chickens. So that part I don't think will be hard to train the great pyrenees todo by training and example from the GS just the transition of her protecting the hens from predators I'm lost on because I never have had to do that before. I'm sure I will lose hens at first until she knows what all the predators are for the chickens 4 legged and flying. So when would I know she's ready or not? At what age? (I don't expect her to kill a coyote at her age or even a ****) I'm not willing to put her in that position of protecting the flock from such predator until I know she can handle it. And I'm not ready to risk the flock until I'm confident she will protect them. I live in Ohio. Also I need to know if I'm asking too much out of this dog, not saying she's untrainable but being non of her parents were guard dogs of animals and the fact she has grown up in a pet type environment, two kinda red flags after reading about these dogs. Also I know a farmer not far from my house that has 150 head of sheep with two great pyrenees dogs that I could prob let her hang out with in his barn a few nights so she can see how true LGD's work. I read that great pyrenees don't learn so much from adult dogs they just have to grow up around the flock it's protecting to become protective. So a little insite on specific excersises to do with her in order to get her used to poultry as well as protective would be most appreciated, I have to give this dog every chance she has to becoming a LGD, the Shepard is my baby lol, me and him play all the time, he had adapted very well to the house and I have never caged him, but he sheds like a mother lol even when brushed, I don't really want two heavy shedders in the house if she doesn't work out in the barn. I'm willing but I don't want that. What age can she be ok to live in the barn? I normally go back there daily to collect eggs but the sheppard stays in the house via a wireless electric fence that goes all around the house. Sorry for the length, grammar or spelling issues lol but I want to make sure if she fails as a LGD its not gonna be from a lack of training. Thanks

John


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Hello John, The only LGD I've had is a Karakachan; however, from what I've read, the "guardian" propensities are genetic in all these breeds. To me that means she will not have to be "taught" to guard your fowl. She will only need to be taught (as most dogs, even LGDs) not to chase/hurt them; and your GS will be a good roll model for that. Once she realizes those chickens are part of her new place, she will probably guard them as she did that previous owners grandkids.

With her having been "outside" with her mom (and you only having 3 acres) I would not let her take those little excursions to your neighbor's sheep. She may start thinking her "boundary" includes that place. 

Her guardian instincts will kick in as she grows; during which time you will be able to learn *from her *when she is "ready" (confident) enough to be left in with the chickens. (I must say I'm feeling a bit concerned about her just being left in one of those chicken stalls all alone when she's been with other dogs and people so much during her few 12 weeks of life. If she were mine and I were in your situation, I think I would build her a "doggy door" to get in and out of that stall, feed her in it, put her bed in it and let her get use to it without being forced to "live" in it...at least for awhile.)

As for the length of time an LGD needs to do what is expected, that is definately a question you will get many diverse responses to. Much of what an LGD will be doing as a guardian is already built inside; thus, just letting them get thru their puppy stage and adolescent stage with confidence in themselves is the majority of what needs to be done. Also, most (if not all) dogs will not "bond" with fowl; however, once your dog learns you value those fowl and she is to react to them in specific ways, she will respect your wishes....just be patient and "calm" when correcting her. (I don't know about Pyrenees; but my Karakachan will not tolerate anything coming her way with anger...or anything she senses going after her charges with an intent to harm.)

Do let us know how it all goes. Many of us enjoying experiencing how others raise their LGDs from puppy hood.


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

Chickens are one of the hardest things for a LGD to guard. LGDs in general were bred for centuries to bond to sheep and goats and it is this bond which makes them protective. Birds, not being 4-legged mammals, are simply harder for an LGD to bond to. With all that said, there are many very successful poultry guardians. Generally they are not necessarily bonded TO the poultry, but their nature is to keep intruders out of their territory and if the poultry falls within that territory, the LGD will naturally keep predators away from them.

However - being large breed dogs, they aren't fully mature until around two years old. Prior to that they are puppies - and big puppies at that - and many have found poultry fun to play with, resulting in dead chickens. Once they are mature, they outgrow that, but be aware it is a possibility until then.

Great Pyrenees have a reputation for roaming, so be aware that keeping them confined to your 3-acres may require some creativity on your part, along with installation of hot fence.

Although the parents are pets, the pup you're being offered may still have the instincts to be a good working LGD.


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## BrokeFarmerJohn (Mar 11, 2016)

I don't mean pin her up in a stall, just stay in that area, the coop is a converted 3rd stall, I want her to have access to the coop as well as access to the outside threw one of the stalls, I want her in-between the open door and the coop to take care of critters. I have a slider door that divides the stalls and main part of the barn, I want to build a heavy dog door so she can travel to the main part of the barn in case it got broke into she could be waiting for them by the time someone got in but something the chickens can't go threw. Here is a link of what it looks like so you all can picture this a little easier.


http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1086476/just-wanted-to-share-my-nesting-boxes-i-built

Also I have a fenced in lot which I will post a pic of, it's a cattle type fence, I plan to put up chain link over the existing fence to keep the dog in as well as most the chickens, I'm not as worried about predators in the day time but all the chickens have been good about going from the stalls to the coop when the sun goes down, so I'm fairly confident they will go back to the barn at night.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I think with only three acres your GP will be roaming. Their sense of their own territory is quite large and what you have will not keep her in if she really wants to go anywhere. I think you would be better served with a dog that has a smaller sense of territory and will guard the property rather than specifically the chickens. A bouvier des flanders, a doberman, even a mutt with the proper mix. Get a young dog (a good breeder may have a 6month to one year old that was returned) and train it to leave the chickens and other livestock alone and boundary train.

The best deterrent to predators at night is electricity. Electric netting is great at keeping smaller varmints out. You can also use the netting to rotate your chickens around without actually free ranging them. Get a dog if you want, but I found that the four foot poultry netting kept my birds safe.


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## cowbelle (Mar 5, 2009)

As I suggested to someone else recently, I highly recommend that you go to the Bountiful Farm website. Look for the LGD Seminar - you will find answers to all your training questions, and ways to work with the Guardian dogs. It's a wealth of information with many years of working with many dogs behind their methods.


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## BrokeFarmerJohn (Mar 11, 2016)

Maura said:


> I think with only three acres your GP will be roaming. Their sense of their own territory is quite large and what you have will not keep her in if she really wants to go anywhere. I think you would be better served with a dog that has a smaller sense of territory and will guard the property rather than specifically the chickens. A bouvier des flanders, a doberman, even a mutt with the proper mix. Get a young dog (a good breeder may have a 6month to one year old that was returned) and train it to leave the chickens and other livestock alone and boundary train.
> 
> The best deterrent to predators at night is electricity. Electric netting is great at keeping smaller varmints out. You can also use the netting to rotate your chickens around without actually free ranging them. Get a dog if you want, but I found that the four foot poultry netting kept my birds safe.




The existing fence I have now, I am going to add chain link fence to keep the dog in. I bought up about 1000 ft of chainlink rolls last year, it's all in the barn. I decided either build a chicken run out of it or fence in that lot attached to the barn. The chainlink is 4ft tall, I figure I can train her to stay in those boundaries.


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

BrokeFarmerJohn said:


> The existing fence I have now, I am going to add chain link fence to keep the dog in. I bought up about 1000 ft of chainlink rolls last year, it's all in the barn. I decided either build a chicken run out of it or fence in that lot attached to the barn. The chainlink is 4ft tall, I figure I can train her to stay in those boundaries.


I'm sorry to say 4' will not keep a lot of GPs in. Many can easily climb/jump/scale a fence that high and others will simply dig under it. Chain link is good fence but you will still need to run at least one strand of hot wire at its base and possibly another up high.


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## BrokeFarmerJohn (Mar 11, 2016)

I read the entire seminar and the way it reads and explains how to get in the mindset of a great LGD was what I originally had in mind, it wasn't until I was reading the so many different ways to teach and train LGD's by owners that I grew more unsure of this particular dog or making it work for my situation. But this article restored my confidence in how to train the dog and also the mindset to be in, around the animal. I have a plan on how to make it work as well as how to train the dog to be a proper guard dog, my original thought was to integrate my current pet GS with this one time to time but this article suggests I should keep them separate which makes since, the GS is my pet, this dog will only be a worker and I already planned on treating it as such. I'm not really going to be able to get the dog to bond with the chickens but I'm very confident that I will get it defensive over a shared parameter, in my head I am thinking the dog will only become more aware of the flying predators once it sees a chicken get killed by a hawk, my roosters will try to defend the flock and I'm hopping the LGD will run over in time to save the roosters from death. I plan to get a few guineas, they have a very good awareness for predators I hear and make a hell of a noise when they see danger, so with my roosters, guineas and this Great Pyrenees I'm confident my hens will be able to safely free range in the area that I fence in. 

The link to the article.

http://www.bountifulfarm.com/lgd_seminar.htm


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

In my opinion, the guinea thing is pretty much a myth. Their constant noise will drown out anything that was actually happening. It will also draw in predators once they figure out that guinea is edible. They can be flushed from a tree at night by a predator on the ground, they scatter and fly headlong into things in the dark. They wander, and hide out on nests. They are especially vulnerable on nests, they spend way more time on the nest than chickens, both because they like to lay a huge clutch of eggs, and because they need an extra week of incubation.

They do make a lot of noise when they see predators. They also make a lot of noise when a car goes down the road, when the moon comes up, and sometimes just because they think it is too quiet. If you have a hen getting drug off by a fox, nothing will ever hear her because you will have your tv turned up, and your dog will have it's paws over it's ears because of the constant noise of the guineas. Like some giant machine that needs grease badly.

As for the LGD, in some cases, once you build a fence that will keep one from roaming the neighbors place, there is not much need for one.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I'm hearing you put in a lot of effort in learning about LGDs and you've given a great deal of thought as to how to train it. I applaud you for that. I do, however, think you're going to discover a few problems in what your thinking of doing.

Not to criticize but hopefully to just give you more food for thought before you jump into the situation with both feet.

First off those guineas will NOT stay with your chickens; and if your LGD learns to believe she must guard them too, you could wind up with a similar problem that I encountered with my Karakachan, i.e. leaving the homestead to check on the noisy guineas. 

Next, I do understand many say to keep your GS separate from your LGD; however, your place is only a few acres; and that new LGD will need someone it can *play* with. It will be best for it to play with your GS than to play with the animals it is suppose to be guarding.

The most important thing I learned in raising my first LGD was that the dog needs to be a dog, i.e. playing with other dogs teaches it how to *win* against predators while having fun as a puppy. (I only have 6 acres where every single animal/fowl free-ranges with two dogs, a lab and a karakachan. The parameter fencing keeps in the goats and chickens...not the guineas. The parameter fencing had to be fortified at the bottom to keep in the LGD who thought her territory included where the guineas were. The two dogs play "roughly" with each other and back each other up against predators. Even now that my karakachan is 3 yrs old, she still wants to play at times; and I do not want her playing with the goats/fowl....although awhile back I actually had a GS who learned how to play with the goats by running "with" them, jumping upon an old oil drum and pushing each other off; but this GS was an exceptional dog.)

There are many great seminars and instructions that teach one to work with the LGD breeds. However, each LGD has its own personality and each farm/homestead has its own setup. I urg you not to keep your two dogs apart as that young LGD will need a canine friend...even mentor at times.


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

motdaugrnds has given excellent advice. I also have Karakachans and I have 3 other dogs in addition to the two LGDs. I have integrated all 5 dogs to one another and they spend vast amounts of time together. In addition, due to a partnership arrangement we have with our closest neighbor wherein we share ownership of dairy cows and goats, her two dogs visit regularly and are integrated into the pack as well. 

LGDs are livestock and have a job to do. However they are also dogs, and no matter how many people or articles say they are different to other dogs (and in many ways they are), they still have the need of any other dog for socialization. They are extremely intelligent which means they get bored easily and having other dogs for companionship will help to keep them from playing with things they shouldn't - like the stock you are hoping they'll protect.


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

One thing to keep in mind: many of the articles written on LGDs are written about dogs guarding much larger territories than is common today. Traditionally LGDs were used to guard hundreds of sheep that ranged over thousands of acres. Shepherds needed their dogs to behave independently in their absence and to think for themselves to solve problems they encountered without human guidance.

That is very different to today's small homesteads. The only similarity is that predators still want to eat the animals we are raising! So it isn't necessarily that what you are reading isn't accurate - its that it may not be relevant to every situation.

With all due respect, what I am hearing is that though you started this thread asking for advice, you already know what you want to do and are determined to proceed even though people in similar situations are telling you what didn't work in their experience.


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## BrokeFarmerJohn (Mar 11, 2016)

Moboiku said:


> One thing to keep in mind: many of the articles written on LGDs are written about dogs guarding much larger territories than is common today. Traditionally LGDs were used to guard hundreds of sheep that ranged over thousands of acres. Shepherds needed their dogs to behave independently in their absence and to think for themselves to solve problems they encountered without human guidance.
> 
> That is very different to today's small homesteads. The only similarity is that predators still want to eat the animals we are raising! So it isn't necessarily that what you are reading isn't accurate - its that it may not be relevant to every situation.
> 
> With all due respect, what I am hearing is that though you started this thread asking for advice, you already know what you want to do and are determined to proceed even though people in similar situations are telling you what didn't work in their experience.



I just wanted to make a comment about the last paragraph here, I do appreciate all the advise and all the information in LGD's by everyone, I started this thread because I was about to pick up a dog that I had no idea how to train, my dogs to this point have only been pets so LGD's were a new category all together. 

Soon after reading all the responses along with constantly reading all I could find on raising a Great P, I had made up my mind to not get the dog because with all I read, the do's and don'ts of training a great LGD, I read enough to make myself think it wouldn't be a good fit for my situation and I was better off just building a chicken run. 

Raising chickens is a hobby to me, I'm not on a farm, I live in the suburbs a bit further out in the country, my neighbor has 3 cows that my GS likes to exercise when he gets lose so he stays at the house with a wireless electric fence now, I had to adapt his situation to make him work for me. My point is unless im 100% confident that I can make this work I'm not gonna do it, only way I am confident enough to try is by collecting all the data I can on the subject, devising the best plan I can for my situation so it has the highest rate of success. 

The lot I'm fencing in with chainlink is only about 1/2 to 1/3 of an acre, yes I have 3 but I can't afford fencing to fence in the entire yard, the shift I work I can't close the chickens up at night because I'm at work when it gets dark outside so the only way I can let them out to free range is with some sort of protection after they go back to the coop at night and that would be a LGD, I actually was just gonna build them a run until I was offered a 4 month old Great Pyrenees. 

I don't need another pet, I have a problem and I was hopping a LGD would be a solution. Once I take the dog I'm 110% committed, I will do whatever I need to do to keep the animal happy and safe, most importantly my chickens, sure I can build them a chicken run and they can go outside and after 2 months be walking in mud and eat every bit of vegetation growing, there's nothing wrong with that, many people do that and it's very effective and keeps the chickens safe but I won't settle, it's always the best or nothing, I built enough roosting space for 100 birds knowing I would only have 40, I built enough nesting boxes for 93 chickens ext. I have redundant roosting places for chickens that don't get along with each other, they don't have to roost together but both roosting ladders are the same hight, in the chicken world the higher you roost the higher up the pecking order you are. 

So am I willing to let a dog have a mediocre life so my chickens can have a better life free ranging? No. which is why I posted here, why I read posts and articles from owners for over 3 hours just yesterday alone to make sure I can provide everything I possibly can for this dog as a worker and to give it the best chance at becoming a great LGD. I don't need the money from the eggs I sell, all this is, is a hobby that I enjoy, that not only pays for itself but makes money. I enjoy the experience that comes with stuff like this.

To be honest I'm still on the fence about getting the LGD, I have never been the kind of person to just try something because I think it could work and have the trial and error approach, I find people who have successfully done it than pick there brain and apply that the best I can to my situation. So for no more than I wish to gain from this LGD I'm not willing to take a chance and fail.


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## BrokeFarmerJohn (Mar 11, 2016)

Also the theory behind keeping the dogs separated like it says in the seminar, that bringing a dog into the LGDs territory will give the dog an idea that it's ok to have other dogs in its territory and the next domestic dog on a killing frenzy that decides to stop by wont be ran off by the LGD. So the idea is it's best to just keep the dogs separated. Also if you take the LGD out of its territory to the house to play with the pet then that shows the LGD it's ok to leave the animals there supposed to be protecting, another scenario you don't want in a LGD for it to just wander off whenever it wants. Also in my situation, my GS stays in the house all day, only to be let out when I'm home or when it needs to use the RR, so at best they would only see each other when I'm home and have time. With a full time job, the daily chores of the GS, the chickens, stuff around the house threw the week there's not much time left. On the weekends I'm doing HVAC side jobs, projects in the house or barn, building something or fine tuning the chicken coop ext I don't have much down time to just watch the dogs play, now training the new LGD is a bit diff, I can make time and even if it's only 15 mins I can work with the dog to get it to understand what's expected of it.


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## BrokeFarmerJohn (Mar 11, 2016)

I reread the posts and responses from people here and the conclusion I can come up with which I already had until I read the seminar (correct me if I'm wrong) is that for my situation and all that I would want to gain with this LGD, even know it can be done, it wouldn't be a good fit for my situation. The fenced in lot I would want to keep her in would be too small and she would want to escape regularly, GP don't really bond with chickens so she would more or less be guarding her territory vs the chickens directly, then there's the fact that she has been a pet her entire life, everyone so far has not thought that would be a issue but that would be a dramatic step for a young dog, to go from a house pet to a barn dog, ideas of being abandoned in my experience with dogs usually sets in and they become overly dependent of people, this may be different for a GP but I still think that would keep the dog from being a well balanced LGD in my opinion. At this time I'm seriously entertaining the idea of letting the guy that owns her now know she wouldn't be a good fit for my situation. The feed back has been weighing in that favor. I will give it till the end of my shift to make my mind up. Too many negative variables for me to be comfortable to commit to a LGD.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

BFJ, I really do admire all the thought you've put into this project. You sound like a person who wants the best for his animals, be they chickens and/or dogs. And I do understand your need for some way of keeping your birds safe during late hours when you are not there to lock them in. 

[Let me add here that I have an LGD and a labradore who are constantly outdoors together. Since my farm is small and my goats/fowl free-range together, my LGD "knows" this labradore "belongs" on the place...all OTHER 4-legged animals get attacked.]

Let's not focus so much on an LGD for a moment. Experience has taught me that ANY good guard dog will protect what it believes belongs on its place. For you that is chickens. You already have a German Shepherd; and I am quite familiar with that breed. I know they are great watch dogs; and the ones I've had on my place DID protect the fowl...after it learned not to eat them. (My GS learned so well to protect my fowl that she would break up the mating rituals. LOL ) Now, if you take the time you would have spent "teaching" an LGD something and spend it teaching your GS not to chase/harm your fowl, you could then prepare a "doggy door" that would permit your GS to enter into the area where your chickens will be free-ranging anytime it needed to. And a good GS WILL protect in whatever way it needs to. Of course, you would need to train that dog to live "outside" WHILE YOU'RE AWAY, entering your house only when you are home. That would be quite a change for your GS and I suspect that GS would be glad to be outdoors more often. Of course, you apparently have the added problem of that GS leaving your 3 acres. I suggest that is where you spend your energy, i.e. finding a way to keep that GS home while you're gone.

What I'm trying to say as nicely as I can is that you already have a dog that could work for your 3 acres. Just train it instead of looking for a different dog to train.


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

BrokeFarmerJohn said:


> The lot I'm fencing in with chainlink is only about 1/2 to 1/3 of an acre, yes I have 3 but I can't afford fencing to fence in the entire yard, the shift I work I can't close the chickens up at night because I'm at work when it gets dark outside so the only way I can let them out to free range is with some sort of protection after they go back to the coop at night and that would be a LGD, I actually was just gonna build them a run until I was offered a 4 month old Great Pyrenees.


I wanted to offer another possible solution....what about an auto chicken door? The one I have has a light sensor that signals the door to open at dawn and close at dusk. It is charged by a solar charger so it was not necessary to run power to the coop. For me this was the solution to letting the birds free-range, knowing they'd be shut in the coop safe at night, even if I wasn't here to do it.



BrokeFarmerJohn said:


> Also the theory behind keeping the dogs separated like it says in the seminar, that bringing a dog into the LGDs territory will give the dog an idea that it's ok to have other dogs in its territory and the next domestic dog on a killing frenzy that decides to stop by wont be ran off by the LGD. So the idea is it's best to just keep the dogs separated. Also if you take the LGD out of its territory to the house to play with the pet then that shows the LGD it's ok to leave the animals there supposed to be protecting, another scenario you don't want in a LGD for it to just wander off whenever it wants. Also in my situation, my GS stays in the house all day, only to be let out when I'm home or when it needs to use the RR, so at best they would only see each other when I'm home and have time. With a full time job, the daily chores of the GS, the chickens, stuff around the house threw the week there's not much time left. On the weekends I'm doing HVAC side jobs, projects in the house or barn, building something or fine tuning the chicken coop ext I don't have much down time to just watch the dogs play, now training the new LGD is a bit diff, I can make time and even if it's only 15 mins I can work with the dog to get it to understand what's expected of it.


Dogs are intelligent and can easily differentiate between the dogs that belong and those that don't. With our Karakachans, we socialized them to the dogs that belong, but they still react to those that do not.

Like motdaugrnds, I admire the thought and research you've put into this. I don't think a GP is right for your situation due to the roaming and barking. Their method of protecting is to bark all night long to let would-be predators know they are there and to stay away. This often does not work in a suburban setting as it alienates neighbors who can hear the barking. There are other LGD breeds that work differently and might work better for your setting. However good fencing and a chicken door might work just as well and they are a one-time vs. an ongoing cost. Good luck and let us know what you decide!


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## BrokeFarmerJohn (Mar 11, 2016)

Moboiku said:


> I wanted to offer another possible solution....what about an auto chicken door? The one I have has a light sensor that signals the door to open at dawn and close at dusk. It is charged by a solar charger so it was not necessary to run power to the coop. For me this was the solution to letting the birds free-range, knowing they'd be shut in the coop safe at night, even if I wasn't here to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have looked into those, but it only takes one mechanical failure or that door doesn't shut and the next day half my flock is dead.

My property is more narrower and long, the barn sits 100 yards from the houses, one side is woods, the other is a small field with 3 cows. Lots of people out there have dogs that bark all the time lol so I wasn't worried about noise. 

And as far as training the Shepard to be a guard dog, I have already trained him to be in the coop with me and not chase the chickens but he is an extremely social animal, from the min I walk in the door when I get off work till pretty much I go to bed me and him are playing, lol I watch tv and throw his toys to retrieve, wrestle and in general I do my best to aggravate him lol if not he paws my arm, digs his claws in, tries to pull me to him and whines . Then when I go to bed he jumps up and sleeps on the bed. Normally when I wake up he's down stairs, as soon as he hears my alarm or hears me wake up he runs up to my bed puts his nose in my face and waits for me to pet him lol if I don't he lays down, if I do he jumps up on the bed ready to play again. Yes he would be trainable to be good guard dog for the barn, but right now he's guarding the house. I have never caged him so he runs around where ever he wants in the house and scares the crap out of people that come to the house lol.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

You are much smarter than many people. Doing your research, looking at all the angles. If you look again at having a LGD, look at a different breed. A Bouvier might work well, but they also need training and attention.

I will add that when your dog paws your arm, whines, etc., ignore him. Wait until he has settled down for a full twenty minutes, then play with him. This will teach him that being obnoxious doesn&#8217;t work. I&#8217;m sure he is very trainable and will make a good watch dog. Basically, if he barks at a strange noise, he is a good watchdog. He may seem fun loving, but I&#8217;m sure if anyone made a threatening move toward you, you would see a much different side of him.


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## BrokeFarmerJohn (Mar 11, 2016)

Maura said:


> You are much smarter than many people. Doing your research, looking at all the angles. If you look again at having a LGD, look at a different breed. A Bouvier might work well, but they also need training and attention.
> 
> I will add that when your dog paws your arm, whines, etc., ignore him. Wait until he has settled down for a full twenty minutes, then play with him. This will teach him that being obnoxious doesnât work. Iâm sure he is very trainable and will make a good watch dog. Basically, if he barks at a strange noise, he is a good watchdog. He may seem fun loving, but Iâm sure if anyone made a threatening move toward you, you would see a much different side of him.



He is a fantastic watch dog, as soon as someone is on the property he jumps up and looks out the window barking and sounding mean, he knows where his territory is, when I first got him at least twice a day for almost a month I walked the entire property line with him. He's very trainable, I got him off Craigslist actually and he was a bit to get used to, he would get extremely scared like he was in trouble, even if I was playing with him and he got down on the ground like he was bad if I approached him he would pee on the floor every time, most the time it was when I came home, I would go up to him to pet him and he would look guilty and just pee, even if he ran up to me when I came home he would pee on the floor, I really had to do research and ask around, after countless dumbasses kept saying I should get rid of him because I was beating him and causing him such distress that he's pissing himself and it's not right or fair to the dog, finally someone told me to ignore it and him, when you come home ignore him and just open the door to let him out, if he pees on the floor don't acknowledge it, just clean it up and let him out, this was totally not how i was used to approaching something like that but I didn't have and success and I did try it, instead of getting mad at him verbally or trying to correct his actions in any way I ignored him, it took weeks before he got to the point where he stopped peeing when I came home which was really aggravating to have to clean up pee every time I saw him, it took even longer for him to stop all together, I kept pushing him though, if we were sitting on the couch together I would randomly grab him and turn him over to pet his belly, stuff like that, randomly saying his name in a stern way and telling him to come here than when he did give him a treat or praise. Now I can't remember the last time he had peed on the floor when I do stuff like that, I can play with him and have a good time with him and he doesn't randomly get scared and pee. When I'm actually mad at him like when he chews on something plastic, I had to hide everything plastic from him because he is obsessed, remotes, spoons, Xbox360 controller ext if it was plastic he tried to eat it but anyway all I have todo is show it to him, in a stern voice tell him he's a bad dog, but I never get any less than 6 ft from him or he will pee on the floor, but maybe a foot stomp or clap to make my point, he usually jumps a little, at the most if I'm really upset with him and he gets the point. He will still do it if he has access to plastic and has ever since I have had him so remotes are in drawers trashcan on the counter ext so he can't get himself in trouble, now I come in the door, he is laying in the same corner of the dining room, I turn on a light and look to see if he drug anything up on the only couch I let him on, if I don't see anything I say max you have been a good boy today and he goes nuts with excitement and rockets out of that corner, I let him out, he comes in just enough to get his tail out of the door then lifts one of his paws and waits for me to wipe all his feet, when it rained I got him in the habit of not running inside after he was outside until I wipe his muddy paws off, so now its routine for him, I wipe all his paws and he won't go until I smack his butt and tell him he's a good dog, that's his cue to go nuts and grab his toys to play lol. He's my little buddy I'm really close to that dog and he has accepted me as his handler, with shepherds that doesn't come easy, they normally only have one handler in there life time. Anything I tell him todo he even hesitate, it's funny he can be in a deep sleep and I will whisper "Max come here" and instantly he gets up and jumps up on the couch like he was wide awake, even people that come over mentions how much he likes me just by the way he looks at me when company is over. He has adapted very well to home life and I can't be happier with him, he doesn't have accidents in the house, if he does it's usually my fault because I have him something that didn't agree with him, he almost opened the slider door one day when I was at work, I came home and the security bar I installed on the slider was broke and was hanging, it's an aluminum bar and it was ripped on the other end that mounts to the frame, the slider was also unlocked it scared me I thought someone tried to break in, in the other room he had the craps and left like 3 really runny piles on the hardwood, so after watching me unlock the door so much he pushed on the wrong side but with so much force it ripped the metal of the bar and he unlocked the slider but just couldn't slide the door open so he could go outside to go the bathroom, I wasn't mad, mainly impressed he made it that far to letting himself outside. Another thing he does and I think he started doing it to copy me, but I fix my dinner on the stove then eat on the couch and watch TV, well he got it in his head he was gonna do the same thing, usually around the time i just sit down he runs over to his dog bowl, gets a mouth full of rood, runs over and jumps up on the couch spits out all the food in his mouth on the cushion and will sit and eat the food on the couch , he will do it like 4 or 5 times in a row, then I usually tell him to stop impersonating me and eat at his bowl, lmfao. That crazy lovable pooch brings a lot of joy to the house and I try to treat him the way he deserves, I spent more on him at the vet the first 2 months I had him than I spent on myself in any doctor in the last 6 years lol but he's worth it. I make sure he has enough stuff to chew on and his food bowl is always full, he doesn't over eat and usually looks for stuff to chew on when his food runs out so I fill a 2 gal bucket of feed for him , hot dogs for treats and any cracked eggs I have gets hard boiled and put in his bowl. I can talk all day about him lol.


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## aart (Oct 20, 2012)

THAT is a gorgeous GS!

Good Advice, Good Research and Analysis, Good Decision.
Glad you got the advice you needed here.


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## Eagle1 (Jun 1, 2012)

Just note on fencing. I have 4 LGDs. ! GP, 1GP/Karakachan and 2 of their pups. the older 2 will not cross a fence line (except barb wire which is not a fence in their mind.) The pups are now 2 and getting useful. One will investigate the fence line and get out if there is a hole or a place she can get it to bend under her weight. Now the the other one has jumped climbed tunneled through many versions of fort knox to get at something or follow me. Last escape was over the top of almost seven foot of fencing. Field fencing with 3 strands of barb on top. Left a LOT of fur but got out, by climbing a tree and launching on top of the fence. She is by far the smallest of the pack but build like a tank. My male could hurdle that fence but won't escape 42" barrier. It really depends on the dog they are all different.


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## CountryMom22 (Nov 27, 2014)

I think you made the right decision, although you might want to revisit the automatic door for your chicken coop. Even is a malfunction did occur, if you get in the habit of checking when you get home from work, I'm assuming you get home before the sun comes up, then if the door malfunctioned you would know it right away. Also, if the door did malfunction, the odds that a **** or fox would pick that night to visit, are slim. If they come around and consistently find the chickens locked in, they will go looking elsewhere for dinner. So you door would have to go for awhile without working before the critters would realize it, most likely.

Of course, that is playing the odds, but most animals are creatures of habit. We lock our chickens in every night at dark, but there are some nights that no one is home at dark and they may go another 4-5 hours before they get locked in, and we have never lost a chicken on those nights in 24 years, so I do have some experience with this type of thing.

I do think you made a good decision regarding the LGD, though. It just doesn't sound like it would be the right fit for your situation.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

You certainly have had a full plate with this dog. Excellent advice on just letting him outside when you get home (it is what I recommend also).

Your posts are difficult to read because you don&#8217;t have any breaks. Look at the other posts and note how they are broken up into paragraphs. Even if everything belongs in a single paragraph, it is much easier to read if you break it up.

Also, you can give him the egg raw, you don&#8217;t have to cook it. Although, my border collie does prefer scrambled with butter over raw.


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## BrokeFarmerJohn (Mar 11, 2016)

CountryMom22 said:


> I think you made the right decision, although you might want to revisit the automatic door for your chicken coop. Even is a malfunction did occur, if you get in the habit of checking when you get home from work, I'm assuming you get home before the sun comes up, then if the door malfunctioned you would know it right away. Also, if the door did malfunction, the odds that a **** or fox would pick that night to visit, are slim. If they come around and consistently find the chickens locked in, they will go looking elsewhere for dinner. So you door would have to go for awhile without working before the critters would realize it, most likely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I now just leave the coop door open most days, I only lock them in 2 nights a week now prob, I have lost a chicken yet.

But in my defense, the door open is a stall door and the coop is past that stall, the chickens roost 6-10ft high in there coop/ in the stalls so that limits them to climbing predators only.

So far so good and the chickens free range most days and are happy.


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## BrokeFarmerJohn (Mar 11, 2016)

Maura said:


> You certainly have had a full plate with this dog. Excellent advice on just letting him outside when you get home (it is what I recommend also).
> 
> Your posts are difficult to read because you donât have any breaks. Look at the other posts and note how they are broken up into paragraphs. Even if everything belongs in a single paragraph, it is much easier to read if you break it up.
> 
> Also, you can give him the egg raw, you donât have to cook it. Although, my border collie does prefer scrambled with butter over raw.



I apologies for any difficulties reading the posts here, idk if one of the posts says but since I started this post I have added 3-4 head of cattle to the mix.

I leave the coop open 24/5 most weeks and off and on set a live trap to catch predators, no lost chickens so far and I can sleep in while they free range lol.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Lived nextdoor 5 Acaer places. And 2 dogs they would be in every ones places. In our fish ponds, gardens, flowerbeds, would kill our birds, chase cats rabbits. Had no idea f heir own home


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