# Vaccination for CDT



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

At what age do you vaccinate kids? I was reading on another board, and was surprised that an expert there doesn't vaccinate kids.

Your feedback requested.:cowboy:


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

CD&T at six weeks and then again on day 20.
I am surprised that an expert doesn't vaccinate kids!! Well, one doesn't have to. But that one must be prepared for the consequences of not vaccinating.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

At 8 weeks and then again 21-28 days later. After that once a year. 
From my research and speaking to a vet, the vaccine supposedly does not do much good before 8 weeks old and I am not doing it 3 times at like 6, 9 and 12 weeks old to make sure it worked. Twice is enough for me


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

Usually around 8 weeks, then again about three weeks later.


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## copperpennykids (Sep 6, 2004)

We vaccinate the bred does 3-4 weeks before they are due to kid. That way the antibodies are high in the colostrum when the kids are born.

Then we vaccinate the kids at 3 weeks and again at 6 weeks of age. Most long time breeders follow this schedule. Some vaccinate again at 9 weeks of age.

With that said, we know more than a few excellent breeders who no longer give CDT vaccinations. For myself, I am more concerned about the tetanus than the clostridium - but we have horses, (horses shed tetanus) so the Tetanus is important to us.

And yep, if you don't vaccinate you have to be prepared to handle whatever comes...but sometimes you vaccinate and the animal still gets clostridium - just hopefully a milder case of it. 

Get as educated as you can and then decide for yourself.


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## KimM (Jun 17, 2005)

Same here. If the does are vaccinated 4 weeks before kidding, I think vaccinating kids any younger than 8 weeks is a waste of money and over exposes them to chemicals they don't really need yet. But that's me.



Oat Bucket Farm said:


> Usually around 8 weeks, then again about three weeks later.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I always did mine at one mo then again three weeks later. New goats were vaccinated the day they came in.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I try to do all the does' about 3-4 weeks before they kid then I figure the kids get some in their bodies to last the first weeks of their lives.

I usually do kids at 9 & 12 weeks of age.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

Does about a month before they kid. Kids at around 8 weeks with a booster when we get around to it, then yearly.


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## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

Does get a booster two-three week before kidding booster. Kids are vaccinated after 9 weeks and then 3 weeks later (preferably 21 days later exactly). 
My understanding is that the immune system is not fully functional until 12 weeks, so I want that booster shot to fall after 12 weeks of age.


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## dm9960 (Nov 26, 2009)

how about if you don't give the mother a shot before kidding? then at what age would you do the kids?


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## Goat Servant (Oct 26, 2007)

We give does CDT right before breeding then again 2 or 3 weeks from kidding.
Kids usually get their first dose at about 2 months, sometimes a little later.
We have too much old fencing & Lord knows what all hidden in blackberry patches from former land owners, cannot imagine not giving CDT here.


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## jordan (Nov 29, 2006)

I stopped giving CDT 5 years ago after a doe I vaccinated died shortly there after from entero. 3 other breeders I know of reported related illnesses and/or losses after vaccinating that year too. Because we had just vaccinated, the vet had sort of ruled that out until we did the necropsy.
It was my choice to make, and I don't force it on anyone else. I do vaccinate the kids that I sell unless a buyer requests that I don't. I have had no issues since stopping and since my goal was to minimize the use of chemicals on the farm and in my animals, that was one I felt I could let go of since I wasn't all that convinced it was doing what it is supposed to anyway. :flameproofundies:
Frankly, I was surprized when I discovered how many breeders have actually stopped giving it over the last few years and how many buyers have asked me not to administer it to kids they had bought. I had thought I was all alone! 
I don't get flu shots for myself either
Lois


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

CD&T appears to be a tad controversial... Some have had negative consequences, some have not. It appears to differ from region to region, person to person. I do not think the tetanus part of CD&T is necessary, unless for some reason one has rusty sharp objects lying about?


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## jordan (Nov 29, 2006)

Heritagefarm said:


> CD&T appears to be a tad controversial... Some have had negative consequences, some have not. It appears to differ from region to region, person to person. I do not think the tetanus part of CD&T is necessary, unless for some reason one has rusty sharp objects lying about?


I don't know if it's a controversial subject or not, but most of the people that I've spoken with who have stopped giving it don't seem to make a big deal out of it and it almost seems to be more of a personal choice than anything else. Some (like me) had negative consequences that made us look at the issue a little more closely before we made our decisions.
Lois


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

jordan said:


> I stopped giving CDT 5 years ago after a doe I vaccinated died shortly there after from entero. 3 other breeders I know of reported related illnesses and/or losses after vaccinating that year too. Because we had just vaccinated, the vet had sort of ruled that out until we did the necropsy.
> I don't get flu shots for myself either
> Lois


Early on we lost a young ND doeling due to tetanus. She'd been properly vaccinated and so had her dam. Had her to the vet early on, but he couldn't find any puncture wounds. Finally scoped her and she'd apparently punctured her throat with a stick or something, but by then treatment was too late. 

We still vaccinate the goats, horses, cats and our dog, but shy away from flu shots and such for ourselves.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

I didn't vaccinate for years. No problems at all. But then one year I lost 4 adult does to entero, one my favorite Nubian of all time. I pulled the 5th doe out of it, but she was weakened and it left her open to other issues and I lost her the following spring. 
So now I vaccinate for entero. I'm not strictly worried about the tetanus, but its in the CDT that I use.
I don't stress how important it is to vaccinate, but I do reccomend my buyers consider using CDT. If they decide not too, thats fine.

Bo-Se and CDT at two months. 

CDT and Valbazen at three months. 

CDT, Valbazen, and Bo-Se at four months.

Then on to pre-breeding shots and then twice a year for the rest of their lives.


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

jordan said:


> I stopped giving CDT 5 years ago after a doe I vaccinated died shortly there after from entero. 3 other breeders I know of reported related illnesses and/or losses after vaccinating that year too. Because we had just vaccinated, the vet had sort of ruled that out until we did the necropsy.
> It was my choice to make, and I don't force it on anyone else. I do vaccinate the kids that I sell unless a buyer requests that I don't. I have had no issues since stopping and since my goal was to minimize the use of chemicals on the farm and in my animals, that was one I felt I could let go of since I wasn't all that convinced it was doing what it is supposed to anyway. :flameproofundies:
> Frankly, I was surprized when I discovered how many breeders have actually stopped giving it over the last few years and how many buyers have asked me not to administer it to kids they had bought. I had thought I was all alone!
> I don't get flu shots for myself either
> Lois


Lois, I started using CDT because that's what my mentor did and continues. Your post gives me pause. Have I given enough thought to this issue? 

Then I read Ozark's post. Mannnn, I'd be sick if I lost Suzie because I didn't inject. I'll continue with CDT but I appreciate your post. 

Great thread, Alice.
Paul


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## boerboy (Oct 7, 2012)

dm9960 said:


> how about if you don't give the mother a shot before kidding? then at what age would you do the kids?


I wish someone answers this question. I am in that situation 
My kids are already 1 week old 

Thanks in advance


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## yarrow (Apr 27, 2004)

for years we did both does (3weeks before kidding)...kids at 3 wks..6wks..9wks...the ONLY kidscI have ever lost to entro had ...had ALL their shots, on time...only adult..a doe that had gotten her cdt 3wks, before kidding...her twins were not quite 3wks when it hit her...I started to question whyI gave all those shots..if we were still.having issues?..with that mindset...I stopped giving the kids cdt..but still gave it to the does...one year I forgot it...nothing happened...next year..just didnt bother...that was 6years ago...knock wood..we have had no more cases of entro in either kids or adults..(I keep in date bottles of antitoxin for both cd and tetanus in my fridge at all times....lucky to have not needed either in years...but I keep buying new bottles.just in case)...for my herd i just couldn't find any thing it did for us...in other situations..in other herds... am sure it has value

susie, mo ozarks


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

Kids cannot produce antibodies until they are about eight weeks old, so we never give immunizations before that time.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I've always learned that Kids can produce antibodies long before 8 weeks of age. The earliest it is suggested to vaccinate is 3 weeks of age. Effective immunization begins at 4 weeks here. 2nd booster at 8 weeks. 

For passive immunity, I vaccinate does 4 weeks prior to kidding. Also give BoSe and copper at this time, as well. 

If I do not know when the doe was vaccinated, I vaccinate at 3 and 6 weeks of age.


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

jordan said:


> I stopped giving CDT 5 years ago after a doe I vaccinated died shortly there after from entero. 3 other breeders I know of reported related illnesses and/or losses after vaccinating that year too. Because we had just vaccinated, the vet had sort of ruled that out until we did the necropsy.
> It was my choice to make, and I don't force it on anyone else. I do vaccinate the kids that I sell unless a buyer requests that I don't. I have had no issues since stopping and since my goal was to minimize the use of chemicals on the farm and in my animals, that was one I felt I could let go of since I wasn't all that convinced it was doing what it is supposed to anyway. :flameproofundies:
> Frankly, I was surprized when I discovered how many breeders have actually stopped giving it over the last few years and how many buyers have asked me not to administer it to kids they had bought. I had thought I was all alone!
> I don't get flu shots for myself either
> Lois



Ditto. Coincidence or no, I haven't had any issues since stopping. I figure stuff happens and it will ALWAYS happen to the best/most valuable animal I have no matter what anyway.:grump:


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Great topic to bring up...since I just vaccinated all of mine last weekend..


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

"At about 10 weeks those colostrum antibodies are wearing off and the kid is developing its own immune system. This is the time to start vaccinating kids. "

http://www.npga-pygmy.com/resources/health/vaccinations.asp

I know there are probably many different opinions on goats, but humans don't develop their own antibodies until about eight weeks of age (DH treated allergy patients for years).


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

Do you use just the CDT vaccine, or Covexin 8, and why?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> unless for some reason one has rusty sharp objects lying about?


Tetanus can enter the body through ANY open wound, although puncture wounds are *more* dangerous.
Rust has nothing to do with it at all


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## Frosted Mini's (Nov 29, 2012)

6, 9, 12 weeks. I also give Pasteurella pneumonia vaccine. What I read was that you aren't suppose to use it until 12 weeks, so I do 12 and 16 weeks.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Tetanus can enter the body through ANY open wound, although puncture wounds are *more* dangerous.
> Rust has nothing to do with it at all


We lost a doeling years ago, who was properly immunized, to a puncture wound in her throat. Our vet couldn't find a wound on the initial visit and by the time he thought to scope her it was too late unfortunately.


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## Ford Zoo (Jan 27, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Tetanus can enter the body through ANY open wound, although puncture wounds are *more* dangerous.
> Rust has nothing to do with it at all


BFF is correct here. Tetanus lives in the soil and likes dark warm areas to grow in, hence the puncture wounds are more at risk. The rusty metal has always been the accused carrier, but that's because it has been hanging around getting dirty with tetanus for years.

I respect people's choice not to vaccinate, but I think tetanus should be considered a bit differently, especially since it is always present in the goats' environment and the outcome of infection is never good.


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## LoneStrChic23 (Jul 30, 2010)

I booster my does late pregnancy then all my keeper kids get their first vaccine at 8 weeks old, then a booster in 3 weeks.


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## saanengirl (Apr 7, 2009)

For those who lost vaccinated animals to entero, you have to realize that there are many strains of clostridium. CD & T gets the most common strains, but does not get all strains. In the case where I have seen vaccinated animals die of entero, it was from a strain of clostridium that they weren't vaccinated against. That is why I switched from CD & T to Covexin 8 since it covers more strains.


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## yarrow (Apr 27, 2004)

saanengirl said:


> For those who lost vaccinated animals to entero, you have to realize that there are many strains of clostridium. CD & T gets the most common strains, but does not get all strains. In the case where I have seen vaccinated animals die of entero, it was from a strain of clostridium that they weren't vaccinated against. That is why I switched from CD & T to Covexin 8 since it covers more strains.


all of my entro cases were in Covexin 8 vaccinated kids/adult.. I did see that Jeffer's is now selling Colstridium type A vaccine (use to only be in New Zeland)

susie, mo ozarks


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