# Who here trims their own hooves?



## JohnnyMule (Nov 8, 2015)

I am considering learning how to trim Johnny's feet myself, and was wondering who here does so, and how did you learn?
His feet are overdue for a trim, but he does NOT like strangers touching him- and gets antsy as soon as they come too close . He has no problem letting me mess with his feet and stands like a statue, but we have gone through two farriers already who were not able to trim him, and I have someone else coming next week, but I'm not sure this time will be any better than the last. I am worried someone is going to get hurt.
His heels are getting long and his white line is looking stressed, so I would really like to have his feet done in the next few weeks, even if I have to do it myself. I am used to horse hooves, but Johnny's feet are more donkey like in appearance so I'm a bit stumped on how he would need to be trimmed (he's a mule). I'm also 100% paranoid about messing up his beautiful little feet. 
When my old horse was still around, my last farrier was amazing and showed/ told me exactly how to trim and explained the anatomy, however I have never actually done it. 
Any advice is much appreciated.


**Sedating is out of the question. He fights both the vet, and the sedative which results in it not working (even with a double dose). 
**Don't knock- I've only had him for two months, and he's come leaps and bounds, but still has a long way to go until he's a civilized citizen :happy2:


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

JohnnyMule said:


> I am considering learning how to trim Johnny's feet myself, and was wondering who here does so, and how did you learn?
> His feet are overdue for a trim, but he does NOT like strangers touching him- and gets antsy as soon as they come too close . He has no problem letting me mess with his feet and stands like a statue, but we have gone through two farriers already who were not able to trim him, and I have someone else coming next week, but I'm not sure this time will be any better than the last. I am worried someone is going to get hurt.
> His heels are getting long and his white line is looking stressed, so I would really like to have his feet done in the next few weeks, even if I have to do it myself. I am used to horse hooves, but Johnny's feet are more donkey like in appearance so I'm a bit stumped on how he would need to be trimmed (he's a mule). I'm also 100% paranoid about messing up his beautiful little feet.
> When my old horse was still around, my last farrier was amazing and showed/ told me exactly how to trim and explained the anatomy, however I have never actually done it.
> ...


Are you able to tube worm him? If you can get warmer paste in his mouth, there is a sedative called Dormosedan that comes in a gel form that is very good. I have an old mare who simply won't let anyone mess with her except me, but I am neither a vet nor a farrier. She has to have a dose of Dorm and then she stands quietly for trims. Really, it is so much less stressful for them if you take the edge off for them first. I give her the oral meds, then wait about 20-25 minutes before haltering her and getting her trimmed.

It may not be the optimum solution for you. But unless you have stocks you can stand the mule in for a farrier I don't know what to tell you. I wouldn't advise you try trimming yourself.

Someone here will probably jump in and have another opinion, and maybe it will help you more. Good luck!


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## tamarackreg (Mar 13, 2006)

Trimming your own allows you to use a rasp on a daily basis (or adjust to your schedule) at first, then as needed.

Just take a little at a time, maybe one hoof a day to start, so what if it takes three weeks? Maybe start with one swipe and a reward. 

Less chance to screw it up like you can with nippers like I did when I started. Read all you can and let the hoof tell you what to do.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

JohnnyMule said:


> I am considering learning how to trim Johnny's feet myself, and was wondering who here does so, and how did you learn?
> His feet are overdue for a trim, but he does NOT like strangers touching him- and gets antsy as soon as they come too close . He has no problem letting me mess with his feet and stands like a statue, but we have gone through two farriers already who were not able to trim him, and I have someone else coming next week, but I'm not sure this time will be any better than the last. I am worried someone is going to get hurt.
> His heels are getting long and his white line is looking stressed, so I would really like to have his feet done in the next few weeks, even if I have to do it myself. I am used to horse hooves, but Johnny's feet are more donkey like in appearance so I'm a bit stumped on how he would need to be trimmed (he's a mule). I'm also 100% paranoid about messing up his beautiful little feet.
> When my old horse was still around, my last farrier was amazing and showed/ told me exactly how to trim and explained the anatomy, however I have never actually done it.
> ...


It sounds like you've got a game plan in mind and you do understand the amount of work it takes to get company manners in place and I commend you for considering not putting a farrier at risk of harm or injury. 

I don't trim my own but we do have farriers as members who may be able to coach you through enough of the barest essentials to get things going.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I taught myself, started with Draft Horses. A good rasp, not a China piece of junk. Nippers of a good quality, not the rusty pair you found in a bucket of bolts at a farm auction.
But just starting out, you can't do too much harm with just a rasp. A hoof knife can help clean out next to the frog. If you have seen it done, you should be able to trim a normal hoof. 
I'd want you to get a bit of guidance for nailing on shoes, however.


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## JohnnyMule (Nov 8, 2015)

Thank you for the suggestions and advice. I love the rasp only idea to start out  
I think I'll pick up a good rasp this weekend and try my hand at it (I would rather take a few weeks to slowly rasp away at the feet, than accidently trim too much). How do I ensure I have the proper angles and heel length though? 
If I posted a few photos this weekend, would anyone here be able to offer some advice on how they look, and what else needs to be done?

I think I will just cancel the third farrier visit for next week. The more I think about it, the more I worry they will get hurt and I don't want to put someone in that position. Not to mention I would feel awful if the farrier was injured and not able to work for any length of time  

As for the sedative, I have heard and read that sedatives can make donkeys/ mules MORE prone to kicking as they feel vulnerable, which is why I am reluctant to try it. I think the best way forward with this guy will be slow rasping, and lots of praise. He's only a yearling, and has not had much handling, so he's not intentionally being a prat- he just doesn't quite know what he's expected to do yet, and giving up his feet is scary. 
He's going to make one fine mule in a few years .


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

You need a hoof rasp, not a hardware store wood rasp. If you have been around equine, you know how much heel to leave. Make them even and look like what you have seen before. 

The worst thing for a dog is to break his chain. Then he knows he can and will forever try. Same for horses. When a horse runs off with the wagon when just starting, you may never get it safe again, 100 times harder. With that in mind, each farrier taught an important lesson. Johnny knows what to do to get someone away from his feet. Bringing in a second failed attempt really propped up that idea of just who is in control.
You say you can monkey with his legs, but you might want to save the receipt from that rasp, you might not get that far. From what you mule people are telling, you can't force them, so I won't offer any details on what makes horses safe. 
Pretty sure all those 3rd world donkeys weren't broke through love and kindness. Good luck.


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## JohnnyMule (Nov 8, 2015)

haypoint said:


> You need a hoof rasp, not a hardware store wood rasp. If you have been around equine, you know how much heel to leave. Make them even and look like what you have seen before.
> 
> The worst thing for a dog is to break his chain. Then he knows he can and will forever try. Same for horses. When a horse runs off with the wagon when just starting, you may never get it safe again, 100 times harder. With that in mind, each farrier taught an important lesson. Johnny knows what to do to get someone away from his feet. Bringing in a second failed attempt really propped up that idea of just who is in control.
> You say you can monkey with his legs, but you might want to save the receipt from that rasp, you might not get that far. From what you mule people are telling, you can't force them, so I won't offer any details on what makes horses safe.
> Pretty sure all those 3rd world donkeys weren't broke through love and kindness. Good luck.


I have been around plenty of horses, but mule/ donkey feet are new to me, which is why I asked about angles, as I have heard their hooves are generally more upright. 

While this is my first mule, I do know how to read his behaviour and when a firm hand is required. He is showing fear, which is why I believe going slow is best in this circumstance . If he was just being a prat I would get after him. 

As for the farrier re-Inforcing the bad behaviour, I completely agree. It's another reason I decided to cancel the third farrier. Once I realized it was not going to go well with the farriers( they didn't even get to pick up a foot), I paid them and sent them away. Then we had a session on handling his feet, which ended well both times. 
My methods seem to be working well so far .


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

http://www.thedonkeysanctuary.org.u.../142-1436781090-donkey_health_and_welfare.pdf

http://naturalequinehoofcare.weebly.com/donkey-and-mule-hooves-slideshow.html

These may help. I too would go with a little rasping a day on each foot.


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## CypressHollow (Jun 11, 2015)

JohnnyMule said:


> I am considering learning how to trim Johnny's feet myself, and was wondering who here does so, and how did you learn?
> His feet are overdue for a trim, but he does NOT like strangers touching him- and gets antsy as soon as they come too close . He has no problem letting me mess with his feet and stands like a statue, but we have gone through two farriers already who were not able to trim him, and I have someone else coming next week, but I'm not sure this time will be any better than the last. I am worried someone is going to get hurt.
> His heels are getting long and his white line is looking stressed, so I would really like to have his feet done in the next few weeks, even if I have to do it myself. I am used to horse hooves, but Johnny's feet are more donkey like in appearance so I'm a bit stumped on how he would need to be trimmed (he's a mule). I'm also 100% paranoid about messing up his beautiful little feet.
> When my old horse was still around, my last farrier was amazing and showed/ told me exactly how to trim and explained the anatomy, however I have never actually done it.
> ...



Oh, honey, how I know ALL about what you are going through.

I too have a mule, and he only trusts ME with his hooves, so I have been having to learn and provide most of his own farrier care. After a lot of work with him, I can trim all four of his hooves with the nippers and rasp, use the hoof knife to trim off flaps of shedding frog, etc.

I have had a farrier work with him and provide guidance to me, and my mule is now at the point where he will let this gentleman work on his front hooves. But, he still won't let the man work at all on his back hooves.

People who don't have experience with mules don't understand what you and I are going through. Mules are very self-protective, and they are especially protective of their hooves, because if they are injured, survival instincts tell them it is game over - they are going to be the animal in the herd taken down by a predator. Also about mules, most of them don't automatically transfer trust from one person to the next. So, just because our mules let us handle their feet, doesn't mean they will now let anyone handle their feet. The new person has got to do some work with them to get that trust and get to that point.

The beautiful thing about mules is that once they understand what you want from them, and they see it isn't going to hurt them and they know what is going to happen...and that you aren't just going to give up on whatever you are asking them to do, they are all in. Mules are even smart enough to make the connection between the action and it helping them. So, if your mule starts to feel better after your trimming work, he is going to make that connection, and he is going to work a lot better for you with his hooves.

But, that issue of them not transferring trust and therefore compliance onto another person automatically is what makes farrier and vet care so difficult for some of us mule owners. While my mule has been compliant with me doing whatever I need to do to care for him - clean and dress his cuts and scrapes, clean and put eye ointment in his eye (when he had an eye infection), cut away the clumps of ear wax stuck to his long ear hairs, and more, he does not let a vet or any other person do these same things. Only a vet can give them rabies vaccinations, but my mule jumped away from my vet when she tried to administer the vaccine. I had to complete the administration of the vaccine on my mule for her. He had to have his nose twitched just for her to get the him injected with sedatives so she could float his teeth, and he needed 2 does of sedatives (not uncommon for long ears to need double the sedation as horses due to the different way their bodies process the drugs). He is do for another teeth floating, by the way. Yay me. It's gonna be another round of fun for us all.

What people who don't have experience with mules don't understand the mule is not being mean or a brat (mine has never struck, kicked or bit anyone), but them trying to get away is coming from fear and self-protectiveness. But, keep in mind, when the mule is able to successfully prevent whatever it is from happening, he is also giving himself a lesson in he doesn't have to deal with that situation and he is able to prevent it. Meaning, when your farriers tried to work on his hooves, and he wouldn't let them out of fear, he is also now seeing the situation as he doesn't have to have his hooves worked on, because he got away, and it didn't happen.

So, when you work with your mule on his hooves...or really any other thing, you have to follow through. Don't try to force the mule, but keep going right back to whatever you want to do. So, let's say you are at the point where you can pick up all four hooves and clean them with the hoof pic with ease, and you want to start using the rasp on him, and he is pulling his hoof away from you and trying to prevent it. You have to reassure him and go right back to it, get to where you touch his hoof once with the rasp without him pulling away, and then you stop and praise him like "that's all I wanted to do today, and yay we did it buddy. Success!" Then the next time you work with him with the rasp, you build on it and do a little more each time. If you have to take a break when you are working with him for either him or you (or both) to calm down before you go back to it, then do that. There's nothing wrong with that, but make every effort to end each lesson on good note - where you were persistent, let the mule know what you are doing isn't going to hurt him and that you aren't just going to let the issue go.

Trimming hooves sucks, and I would not have entered into this process if it wasn't absolutely necessary, because my mule still has to get hoof care and trimming. If you let your mule go too long between trims or go without trims, you are going to start having pathology to deal with too - contracted heels, underrun heals, stretched white line, etc. Then, trimming is going to become even more difficult. So, I agree with your plan to get after it, building on it at a slow, steady learning curve for the both of you.

Good luck! Have fun. With your mule, it is all about the relationship between the two of you. Everything your mule and you do has meaning to him.


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## CypressHollow (Jun 11, 2015)

I forgot to add, another similarity in our situations is that my mule also had very little handling before I got him, so I had to start from the beginning with him too.

It has been a challenge, but it has been very special too. That we really like and trust each other means that we have muddled through everything together. He and I work together and work through any situation.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

I do all my guys myself. 

I had them trimmed by the farrier and would take off a little bit myself in between. If the farrier didn't say they were getting worse and were just fine, then I'd add a couple more weeks between official trims and do more myself. Eventually, I didn't need the farrier. 

I used the internet as well, tons of research, pictures, reading over all the bad hooves and their progress, as well as all the good hooves, too. 

Just remember not to take on what you cannot handle. If you see something you're unsure about fixing, get the farrier out. You can easily make things worse by just hacking at it, assuming you know how to fix it. 

You can also ask a local farrier to train you.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

Sounds like you have a good plan and the patience to do it. Realize the rasp will make a sound and a vibration that will be scary so you may only get one pass then have to try again until he realizes it isn't hurting him. Mules will have a narrower and more upright heel than horses and a higher overall angle so you'll probable need to start with rasping the toes which is good since flat rasping across the bottom of the toe is the easiest place to start. Good luck with your mule-they can be great partners.


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## JohnnyMule (Nov 8, 2015)

Stonybrook said:


> http://www.thedonkeysanctuary.org.u.../142-1436781090-donkey_health_and_welfare.pdf
> 
> http://naturalequinehoofcare.weebly.com/donkey-and-mule-hooves-slideshow.html
> 
> These may help. I too would go with a little rasping a day on each foot.


These are excellent! Exactly what I was looking for  - thank you.


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## JohnnyMule (Nov 8, 2015)

CypressHollow said:


> Oh, honey, how I know ALL about what you are going through.
> 
> I too have a mule, and he only trusts ME with his hooves, so I have been having to learn and provide most of his own farrier care. After a lot of work with him, I can trim all four of his hooves with the nippers and rasp, use the hoof knife to trim off flaps of shedding frog, etc.
> 
> ...



Nice to hear from another mule owner!
Your experience is very much appreciated. I hope you don't mind me PM-ing you sometime if I have a mule specific behaviour question?

I learned quite quickly that he thinks nothing like a horse, and I love it. It took a few days to earn his trust before I could touch him, but once he realized I was ok, I can touch him all over and he LOVES his scratches (still working on the sheath area though- he's not too fond of that). He's fine with my mother as well as she sees him regularly for a nose scratch, but he won't let other's near him.
We had one heck of a time getting him sedated for his castration and one of the vet's assistants did end up with a nasty bruise on her arm from him flipping out in the stall and knocking her into the door. After two doses of sedative, we finally just dropped him because it wasn't working and he was still raring to go. Even once he was under, he kept trying to wake up, and required a re-dose every 4-5 minutes during the entire procedure. We were all a bit flustered by the end, but the vet was amazing and did a great job considering the circumstances. 

I managed to get one of his front frogs all tidied up this morning with the knife, and he did quite well. Took a bit of patience, but he eventually just stood there and let me finish. I have been doing the same thing you describe training wise, and it works wonderfully. I'm hopefully come spring he'll be civilized enough for the vet and farrier. He still has plenty of learning to do.


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## CypressHollow (Jun 11, 2015)

JohnnyMule said:


> Nice to hear from another mule owner!
> Your experience is very much appreciated. I hope you don't mind me PM-ing you sometime if I have a mule specific behaviour question?
> 
> I learned quite quickly that he thinks nothing like a horse, and I love it. It took a few days to earn his trust before I could touch him, but once he realized I was ok, I can touch him all over and he LOVES his scratches (still working on the sheath area though- he's not too fond of that). He's fine with my mother as well as she sees him regularly for a nose scratch, but he won't let other's near him.
> ...


Sure. I welcome your PMs.

I love the way they think too. My mule has the most expressive face. He could never be a poker player. lol. But, it's cool. I can tell when he is unsure of something, when he starts to consider it and then when he accepts it. It's fascinating.

Keep spending that quality time with your mule and let him know what you expect from him. Safety first - that means leadership - not crowding you when leading, being respectful around food and not bum rushing you for his food, not dragging you into his stall or pasture but waiting for you to go first then invite him in and then he walks through respectfully, etc.

Keep working on touching and handling all parts of his body - the corners of his mouth and inside lips - you are going to want to put a bit in his mouth one day, touching the back of his ears and moving them forward - you are going to want to do that to put a bridle on him one day, rub the base of his tail (they usually love that) and lift his tail - you may want to put a crupper on him one day, while you are brushing and rubbing his belly snug your arm under his belly - you are going to want to put a girth on him one day.

Never ever ever hurt his ears. If he ever has to get twitched for the vet to do medically necessary treatment, twitch his nose, never NEVER twist his ears like I have seen some people do to horses to keep them still. I don't think people should do that to horses either, because you create an ear shy horse, but you definitely NEVER do that to a mule - that is something they won't forget or forgive. They are very protective of their ears.

If you have a round pen or can build one, do it. They are a fantastic tool. I found that my round pen work and desensitization work with my mule in the round pen really accelerated our improvement in working as a team together.

I bought some Brad Cameron tapes, and they helped me with my ground work a lot. Something Brad Cameron said in one of his tapes was when you are working with your mule, "never get into a fight with your mule. Always approach training like you are working on a project together." Those are wise words and really summarize the different relationship it is with a mule.


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## KareninPA (Jan 7, 2010)

I trim my 2 Arabs. Last year I finally invested in a Hoofjack, and it was money VERY WELL SPENT. It has always been hard on my body, so I would procrastinate and by the time I trimmed, their hooves were long enough for the nippers. Now I just rasp a pair of hooves once a week (give or take - it's random), enough to keep the walls in check. It's actually fun now! I learned a lot from videos and info on the internet. Oh, and from 40 years watching farriers.


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## JohnnyMule (Nov 8, 2015)

Good news . 
Had to get that third farrier out today as he looked sore in the back end yesterday. This woman is amazing and while we didn't get to his feet ( turns out his hip is sore, not feet) she has trained many donkeys, and gave me a two hour training lesson with things to work on. Johnny did very well, and it's nice to get some hands on help with someone familiar with donkey temperament. 
She wasn't too worried about his feet, and said they were growing straight so they can wait a bit. Best 90 bucks I've ever spent .


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## 1911 (Dec 16, 2015)

I have no experience with mules or donkeys, but I do with horses. 

Trimming is fairly easy to do with some practice and guidance from someone who knows what they are doing. Just make sure you're teacher actually knows. I do most trimmings myself, but about 3 or 4 times a year I have a professional come out just to make sure everything is healthy.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

They say mules pick their owners, I believe it because I've seen it. Sounds like your mule may have picked his farrier too. We had two very bad experiences with vets gelding mules after our old vet retired and we had to find a new one. They didn't see fear they saw disobedience and used lip chains, twitches and blindfolds to get them tranquilized for the procedure despite our protests. Those two mules were forever terrified of a vet. The last vet we used (still our vet) started by rubbing and petting and talking to the mule. When the mule was calm and accepted his presence he injected the tranquilizer, the mule didn't even seem to notice the prick of the needle. Everything was low key and calm, much better outcome that time and everytime after that they needed a vet.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

I'm heading out the door but I'd be happy to look at pics and give you pointers later.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

"Who here trims their own hooves?"

I honestly think if you have your own hooves you are doing something very wrong and should consider paying for regular pedicures. No human should clop when they walk.
:lookout:


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## CypressHollow (Jun 11, 2015)

My mule had his vet appointment for teeth floating, vaccinations, etc, and it went well...much better than the previous appointment, which I described in this thread where he struggled to prevent the needle in the administration of sedation, we had to nose twitch him to safely get him sedated, and he needed two courses of sedation to get his vaccinations and his teeth floated.

What we did this time was I gave him Dormosedan gel under his tongue 45 minutes before the vet appointment. I got it from the vet, and it provided good sedation during the appointment.

*To the OP who said her mule fought sedation:* I think the method described above may be a good option for you. If you can administer oral paste dewormer to your mule, you won't have any problems administering Dormosedan to him. I gave it my mule myself when it was just me and him, like any other day. I had him tied to his hitching post and groomed him and petted him while he napped in the sun. He stayed relaxed enough to not fight the sedation, and it was able to work well. He was well under sedation when the vet arrived. We got all his vet care done without a fight, with out distress to the mule, to me or to the vet. I even got his sheath cleaned. The vet had me do that task myself, but under her direction.


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## KatiePftt (Feb 4, 2016)

I trim my horses hooves, but I went to farrier school for 4 months! I highly suggest going to farrier school, even if it is just a couple week program. Of you can't do that then get on the American Farriers Associations website and go to find a farrier, find a few in your area and ask to ride along. You will learn a TON! Good luck


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## mojack (Jun 6, 2004)

I attended a class here in Oregon last year put on by Cheryl Henderson at ABC hoof care clinic wonderful class great people.She teaches barefoot trimming and is the best I have ever seen. You can check her out at http://www.abchoofcare.com/. You can get lots of information on her facebook page with lots of pictures and questions. http://www.abchoofcare.com/.

Good luck
Jack


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## Stillmeadow (Apr 25, 2016)

I had a friend who is a part time farrier teach me. If you are able to find someone who is nice enough to come out and work you through it 3 or 4 times it really isn't too hard. It helps immensely to have them watch you after you have learned and you can ask questions right when you are doing it. Study hoof diagrams, watch you tube videos. You can get a rasp and nippers for under $100 online. It is so worth it in so many ways to be able to trim yourself. I learned to save money. Especially if your horses are barefoot it makes so much sense. Remember our ancestors took care of their horses themselves. It can be done and well. Look up I think it is the lameness prevention society , I am not sure about the society part. They have great hoof diagrams . Best wishes. You can do it!


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Trimming hooves is fairly basic on most horses. Corrective work might require a better trained expert.

Sort of like a haircut. If you do it wrong, it'll grow back. You can use just the rasp to take down the hoof. It goes slowly enough that you should be able to remove an even amount left to right and toe to heal. Maybe get a flat shoe to hold against the hoof to make sure it is even and can't rock around.

Shoeing is a bit more tricky. Do not even think of shoeing a horse unless you know that shoe nails have an inside and an outside. Designed to gradually bend outward to exit the hoof, controlled by varying the force of hammer blows, a backward nail will bend into the hoof, possibly doing irreparable damage.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

JohnnyMule said:


> I am considering learning how to trim Johnny's feet myself, and was wondering who here does so, and how did you learn?
> His feet are overdue for a trim, but he does NOT like strangers touching him- and gets antsy as soon as they come too close . He has no problem letting me mess with his feet and stands like a statue, but we have gone through two farriers already who were not able to trim him, and I have someone else coming next week, but I'm not sure this time will be any better than the last. I am worried someone is going to get hurt.
> His heels are getting long and his white line is looking stressed, so I would really like to have his feet done in the next few weeks, even if I have to do it myself. I am used to horse hooves, but Johnny's feet are more donkey like in appearance so I'm a bit stumped on how he would need to be trimmed (he's a mule). I'm also 100% paranoid about messing up his beautiful little feet.
> When my old horse was still around, my last farrier was amazing and showed/ told me exactly how to trim and explained the anatomy, however I have never actually done it.
> ...



Get someone who knows how to do it show you how. Pay them if you have to. If you know a farrier who will set you ride along for a few days. You can learn a lot by watching. A hoof knife and a rasp once a week should keep his feet in good shape.

Muleskinner2


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