# I think the hunger may start soon



## Guest (Apr 5, 2009)

One of the articles I read this morning (I forget where), said thousands of people are coming to the end of their unemployment. Of course once that starts rolling, it will be happening every month. Wait until it gets to that point where SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE A MONTH reaches the end of their unemployment. 

And then there are the record breaking numbers of people signing up for food stamps: http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE5314B320090403?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

Donations to food banks are going down as demand goes up.

Homeless shelters are being filled beyond the capacity of anything like what they've ever seen before. With entire FAMILIES!

People who were prepping are beginning to use up those preps as they lose their jobs.

People who are just now waking up to the fact that they should prep may be too late.

It's looking really bad out there...


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

I hate to hear that things are that dire in our country. Unfortunately most of the last generation or so haven't learned the first thing about cooking with staples, canning, gardening, living on a very small budget or even doing without a vacation. Those of us who live that way every day will do better than the rest, but there's going to be suffering and starving in some places. Very sad....


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## rickd203 (Sep 11, 2005)

I think the government will extend unemployment a couple more times before they are forced to stop. We have already seen other countries refusing to buy our debt (Treasury notes). The next likely step would be for overseas suppliers to refuse taking U.S. currency for their products. This would require us to convert our dollar over to to some other form of currency if we want to keep buying their products. A few companies have already started demanding to be paid in euros. If this becomes widespread, we could see the value of the dollar plummet within a few days. This is what sets off hyperinflation which leads to panic buying and ends with TEOTWAKI.


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## palani (Jun 12, 2005)

I expect the opposite. The starvation has been going on for quite a while. There is only empty calories in the processed foods generally available. Vegetables are harvested before nutrients can be packed into them during the final stage of ripeness. Farmers have been forced to engage in fence row to fence row cultivation to pay for the machinery and inputs (seeds, chemicals) and quality comes in last.

Hopefully there will be an awakening as to what real food is.


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2009)

palani said:


> I expect the opposite. The starvation has been going on for quite a while. There is only empty calories in the processed foods generally available. Vegetables are harvested before nutrients can be packed into them during the final stage of ripeness. Farmers have been forced to engage in fence row to fence row cultivation to pay for the machinery and inputs (seeds, chemicals) and quality comes in last.
> 
> Hopefully there will be an awakening as to what real food is.


I agree, but that was totally not the point of this topic.


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## r93000 (Mar 9, 2009)

On the note of homeless shelters- I just read an initiative proposal for Lawrence, KS that would bring back "homeless campgrounds". Their homeless shelter has been completely overwhelmed so it has been discussed that they may need to put together a camping area in order to make a legal space for the homeless to exist. Obviously, this is sparking debate from people who are worried about crime, etc. Last fall they bulldozed an illegal campground along the MO River after two were found dead.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

There use to be a government program that stored up several years supply of food for just in case cause. But when "slick willie" got in office he done away with it so as to save money and make hisself look good. What are we gonna do now?


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## Bruenor (Oct 2, 2008)

My town is plowing up some land at the public park and creating a community garden. You can apply for a plot, or buy a share of the vegetables that are raised communally. I believe a portion of the vegetables are going to a local food bank. I also live near a state prison where some inmates grow vegetables for the food bank. 

If more communities did this, we could feed a lot of people.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

yes community gardens can feed a lot of people..but will it be the "right" people?? Or will it be the grasshoppers that stood back and watched ,made notes and harvested by the moon before the ants could??
My Mom has a "wild" black raspberry on her back fence; pruned and the canes tied to the fence..just before she could harvest them they were picked by a woman that was traveling down that backroad harvesting the wilds growing in the "ditch"(other side of the road from Mom)....it was obvious those berries on Mom's fence were tended..some people have no care for others efforts and will have even less when their bellies pinch. I recently went to using the lock on my coop door-a good habit to get in .


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

bee, maybe your mom could put up a little sign or something. We harvest wilds, but if there is a doubt (anything other than gamelands LOL) we knock on a door. I have ended up with apples, canning jars and some home made kielbasa, and made a few friends. That lady might have just been an ignorant city woman who cant tell the diff between the "wild" and the "pruned".


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Beaglebiz, the canes were tied to the fence, you bet she knew and did not care! There will always be folks willing to "harvest" what they did not plant nor tend. My younger sister has a lovely apple tree that was loaded with fruit in her fenced yard..she came home to a completely stripped tree! not only did they take all the fruit(several bushels worth) but they broke off a lot of fruit spurs for the next years harvest. When she found out who got the apples, the woman was in the process of canning the applesauce and when confronted with the theft said "opps!, must have picked the wrong tree, and they were wormy too boot!"...the woman paid her for the apples but far less than their worth; my sister had pruned,sprayed and thinned that tree and anticipated the apple dumplings she was going to bake...a seasons worth of work! But the point is that if you can't post a guard on your efforts you can easily end up with nothing if someone else can gain access to your crops.


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## Riverrat (Oct 14, 2008)

That is why I live way out in the middle of no where. We do not have that problem here, at least not yet. We have 2 big gardens, one close to the road, one hidden. We have not lost anything at all. I just hope it keeps on this way.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Bruenor said:


> I also live near a state prison where some inmates grow vegetables for the food bank.
> 
> If more communities did this, we could feed a lot of people.


I lived in AZ whose main industry is prisons, seriously. Also had a lot of family who worked there. One of the main prison towns has state farm land that gets rented out. (irrigated farm ground, does exist in AZ, lol) They used to produce a lot of their own food, I think it included beef, milk and veggies. 

That all changed. The state signed some BS contract (not sure why) with a food supplier, think it was sysco. According to contract they are under 100% obligation to buy all food products from sysco and they will sue the state if they try to grow their own food even in small quantity. Basically the state sold it's soul and their hands are tied for the long term. 

I am sure the canned and boxed food is junk and very expensive with an exclusive contract like that. Probably got signed by a .gov. relative of a sysco owner.........(the state considers a packet of ketchup to be a serving of veggies, LITERALLY)

A lot of the inmates sit around all day, seems to me all that farm ground and cheap labor could feed a LOT of people, assuming the director didn't wear their rear end for a hat.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

And yet we have places like Nebraska, with an unemployment rate of 4.2%. Iowa...4.7% Wisconsin...we're climbing a little, but only because of the car companies shutting down large plants. IBM just had a job fair looking for 1000 new employees...46people showed up. 46. Now...that tells me people around here aren't looking hard for jobs. *the IBM jobs would have meant relocating from Madison area approx 100miles SW, but still....if you're out of work and being forclosed on, wouldn't YOU move to support your family?

I think there's a problem brewing in some places....but certainly not nationwide. We're seeing new businesses start up pretty much as normal in our area. The politicians are actually secure enough in our economy here to be talking about raising taxes on beer. BEER. We haven't raised the beer tax in 40 years. Seriously.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2009)

Wisconsin Ann said:


> IBM just had a job fair looking for 1000 new employees...46people showed up. 46.


Wow, and I've been seeing news stories where 500-1000 people show up where there's one or two job openings. And then there are the news stories about job fairs complete with pics and vids where 10 times more people have showed up this year than they ever did before.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

Don't be too quick to judge. Not everyone without a job has a car or gas money to run around 100 miles looking for work. It takes allot of money to relocate. Might not be easy for those of us that have money to understand the restrictions that are placed on pe ople that are broke!!!!!!! It isn't as easy as you might think!!!


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Who in their right minds wants to work, if you have unemployment checks and other govt. assistance pouring in...???

When mailbox money disappears, people have a choice, work or starve to death. And I mean work, not sit behind an air conditioned desk browsing the internet and take home a check.

A person that doesn't have mobility to move around looking for work, will be in a real pickle, when they also don't have the mobility to go out looking for grass and tree bark to eat. This, in many ways is good... less of the golden horde swarming the countryside, stripping the weeds and bark off my trees...

Seriously, this always disturbs me... people that can't or won't move to where work is... govt. pays people to stay where they are (votes keep them in power, if they move elsewhere, they'll lose their census based seats).

The Great Thinning will occur sooner or later... unless someone solves the cold fusion equations (cheaper and freer energy that's as easy to deal with as petroleum based energy products are). Personally, I don't see any magic bullets on the horizon... only the old brass and lead ones that'll be used on the 'grasshoppers' by the 'ants'.


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

Wisconsin Ann said:


> And yet we have places like Nebraska, with an unemployment rate of 4.2%. Iowa...4.7% Wisconsin...we're climbing a little, but only because of the car companies shutting down large plants. IBM just had a job fair looking for 1000 new employees...46people showed up. 46. Now...that tells me people around here aren't looking hard for jobs.


Or aren't qualified for the jobs that are out there.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

I have nothing nice to say.


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## rickd203 (Sep 11, 2005)

Wisconsin Ann said:


> IBM just had a job fair looking for 1000 new employees...46people showed up. 46. Now...that tells me people around here aren't looking hard for jobs. *the IBM jobs would have meant relocating from Madison area approx 100miles SW, but still....if you're out of work and being foreclosed on, wouldn't YOU move to support your family?


IBM has very high hiring requirements. It could be that very few people felt qualified to apply. If you do manage to get hired by IBM, they take very good care of their employees.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i've known of several men who only work long enough to get enough stamps for unemployment. they were doing that for years . i dont think you can just quit now and get unemployment.

when my first husband and i were married there was no work for him in the small town so after 6 months he went to sea. it was either that or welfare which a lot of people did and that wasn't for us. he spent 40 years away and didn't even live to retire. nothing else to do he had to go where the work was.~Georgia.


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## kitaye (Sep 19, 2005)

Small Farm Journal just had an article about victory gardens and small chicken flocks popping up in towns and cities all over Canada. Hopefully, something similar will happen in the USA.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

kitaye said:


> Small Farm Journal just had an article about victory gardens and small chicken flocks popping up in towns and cities all over Canada. Hopefully, something similar will happen in the USA.


Kitaye, I think a lot of peope who have no faith in the govt. (food stamps, FEMA, the Prez) are planting gardens this year... I'm seeing fresh ground broken everywhere for the first time this spring. I know I'm scheduling more garden time this year.... I've gambled against a late frost... we might've had one last night, but I'm too afraid to go look. If I lost it all, I'll replant.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

I think, have thought for a long time, that our established media is broken. 

Government is acting in a self interested way with a lack of transparency. So much is done behind closed doors. 

If we don't investigate when political leaders break the law, then there's no law.

How would you know about the homeless in this nation? Established corporate government or media isn't likely to report it.

http://www.democracynow.org//2009/3/30/nickelsville_seattle_newest_tent_city


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2009)

kitaye said:


> Small Farm Journal just had an article about victory gardens and small chicken flocks popping up in towns and cities all over Canada. *Hopefully, something similar will happen in the USA*.


It IS happening all over the US.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

It wont be a hunger prob as food stamps handed out like candy.
But food stamps, energy assistance, and all that wont pay all your bills and all of your mortgage/rent. Homelessness will abound if something isnt done about the lack of jobs.

In my neck of the woods there are no jobs, not even lousy ones, and a lot of unemployed people looking for work.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2009)

RiverPines said:


> It wont be a hunger prob as food stamps handed out like candy.


And when the dollar collapses...?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

We don't have the money to support the government programs NOW in place. What are we going to do when HALF the population suddenly needs those food stamps and other welfare services?

I think Ladycat is wise, as usual, and I've taken this as a warning. Time to take up the slack in my prep program.


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## firegirl969 (Nov 3, 2008)

My 19, 18, and 17 y/o kids stayed home last night while DH and I stayed with my ailing dad. DD called this am to tell us that a man came to the door at 1 am and asked for money to buy gas to see if DD who just had a car wreck. She sent DS to the door to tell him she didn't have any money. This morning, when she stopped to get gas, the $26 in her purse was missing. Guess who took it? We have instructed them to lock the gate out by the road and to start locking their vehicles and our house at night. We have never had to lock anything. I believe it has started to hit the fan here.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

firegirl - I'm not understanding how the person that came to the door got the $26. Had she left her purse and money in an unlocked car?

You must live in a really nice area, if this is something that is common around there. Here, I lock my car all the time. It even locks by itself when I put it in gear.

If I left anything of any value in the car and it unlocked, I probably would not have it for long.

Angie


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

. . "Don't have the money to support the programs in place". . . .


But by golly, theres unlimited money to support the >wars< on the other side of the world..........


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Foodstamps won't do much for your belly when there's no food available to purchase... I fear any soul that lives check to check, or depends upon food stamps to feed theirselves, will be the first to die, in a great undoing.... TEOTW... I don't know whether it'd be possible to stock up on necessities, on FS only. I know I could, just getting essentials..


in other good news, the near frost didn't kill my peppers, tomatoes, or eggplants last night...:clap:


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

Connecticut raises taxes during tough economic times and implements new ones.


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## mamadelbosque (Sep 29, 2008)

More likely firegirl just lives in a rural area.. we never lock our house doors and I never lock my car doors - theres not much of anything of value in the car, and tbh, I figure I'm just saving myself a broken window or two if somebody actually wants something out of my car :shrug:

And a big old YEAH THAT to jim-mi. :boggle:


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## firegirl969 (Nov 3, 2008)

Yea, I am in a very rural area. DH states that they have never had to lock anything here. That has changed now though.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Firegirl, what state are you in?


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## firegirl969 (Nov 3, 2008)

Rural south GA


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## ihedrick (May 15, 2005)

Just over the past month the job ads in the paper have went from a couple pages to half of one page. Not many jobs around here. Most of those advertised are technical nature; so your average Joe would not qualify. I have seen more garden plots in my area and folks getting into chickens. But a garden and handful of chickens aren't going to make ends meet if things continue as they are.


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

Win07_351 said:


> Connecticut raises taxes during tough economic times and implements new ones.


Do you remember the "Tax You to Death State" mock license plates that were popular around the beginning of Rowland's term?


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## firegirl969 (Nov 3, 2008)

My parents and I have been riding around our county in the afternoons for me to get them out of the house. They are both ailing. We are commenting on the fact that most of the fields in our county are laying by with nothing planted this year. DH told us it is because most of the farmers are in debt to the banks and the banks are not lending them money to farm on this year. We better plant larger gardens around here!


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

All the wheat fields around us are a foot high with gorgeous green wheat. I only know of one local field that's fallow this year. Hopefully it will be a great crop, and the second crop of soybeans will be too.


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## booklover (Jan 22, 2007)

firegirl969 said:


> My parents and I have been riding around our county in the afternoons for me to get them out of the house. They are both ailing. We are commenting on the fact that most of the fields in our county are laying by with nothing planted this year. DH told us it is because most of the farmers are in debt to the banks and the banks are not lending them money to farm on this year. We better plant larger gardens around here!


My family are farmers. It has nothing to do with borrowing... the government is paying them to leave some acreage fallow to drive up prices and combat deflation. I was talking to my cousin a couple of months ago (he farms 1300 acres with his uncle) and he was telling me about the surplus we have right now in beans and corn. He even had some fields destroyed by high winds that laid his corn crops flat and he had a greater than expected harvest.

We've had hunger in the US for a long time, but I don't think it's related to farming.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Corporate control on supply and demand of the food supply has to stop. At some point folks are going to have to take care of our own and our community and stop allowing interference into the production and supply of locally grown and produced food. Food should never have a price tag attached. At most, bartering of exchanged services should suffice for food exchange.


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## r93000 (Mar 9, 2009)

soulsurvivor said:


> Corporate control on supply and demand of the food supply has to stop. At some point folks are going to have to take care of our own and our community and stop allowing interference into the production and supply of locally grown and produced food. Food should never have a price tag attached. At most, bartering of exchanged services should suffice for food exchange.


Ideally, I agree. In practice I don't see how this is ever possible. Basic human nature leads us to take care of our own first. Which means that those who _have_ do not have to trade with those who _have not_ in equal increments. Whoever has excess or the more in demand product/service will always have "corporate" control over the supply and demand. You could plan to enforce equal exchanges, but that just shifts some of the power to the enforcers who in turn, will negotiate for their own well being still cutting out the person with the lesser needed product or skill. Is it greed, yes, but it is also survival of the fittest- strength and/or cunning. The really crummy part is that with survival of the fittest, eventually there is always someone/thing that is fitter than you are...

All of that being said, I am aware that I am considered a heartless/cynical you know what by many.


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## stormaq (Oct 26, 2008)

bee said:


> yes community gardens can feed a lot of people..but will it be the "right" people?? Or will it be the grasshoppers that stood back and watched ,made notes and harvested by the moon before the ants could??
> My Mom has a "wild" black raspberry on her back fence; pruned and the canes tied to the fence..just before she could harvest them they were picked by a woman that was traveling down that backroad harvesting the wilds growing in the "ditch"(other side of the road from Mom)....it was obvious those berries on Mom's fence were tended..some people have no care for others efforts and will have even less when their bellies pinch. I recently went to using the lock on my coop door-a good habit to get in .


I have my gardens, fruit trees & berry bushes away from the road, which helps. However last summer my whole garden was stolen. This summer we'll be taking turns patrolling at night with a loaded shotgun.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

stormaq - that's really rotten about your last year's garden. Be careful and take care.

Angie


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## CJ (May 10, 2002)

Amen! I was telling hubby the other day while we were in town... "look at all the wasted "Green Space"! If all those grassy areas everywhere were put into community gardens...

But then that's also a lot of watering... and who will maintain them?




Bruenor said:


> My town is plowing up some land at the public park and creating a community garden. You can apply for a plot, or buy a share of the vegetables that are raised communally. I believe a portion of the vegetables are going to a local food bank. I also live near a state prison where some inmates grow vegetables for the food bank.
> 
> If more communities did this, we could feed a lot of people.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

I feel so blessed to live where I do - I have some like-minded neighbors and don't have to fear my gardens or hen houses being raided yet. I was (WAS) grumbing about becoming a gated community this spring, but now I'm seeing it as a potentially good thing - keep the riff-raff out. Still seems silly, as far out in the country as we are, but at least it's better than the speed bumps the neighbors down the way installed last year (the bumps are gone now, thankfully). I hadn't experienced any burglary losses, but do know of a few neighbors that did, so I guess there's a good enough reason for the gate...I guess.

eta: I'm also enlarging my gardens this year to grow more food for ourselves. Maybe it'll all turn out to be a blip on the radar and all will be well with the economy, we'll all have plenty of inexpensive food, and happy days will be here again....but if not, I want to know my family will eat well. We have goats for milk, chickens for eggs (and some meat), and plenty of small fruits and vegies to grow, plenty of space to grow them - we may not have everything we want, but we'll have all we need.


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## ShaunaRB (Mar 2, 2009)

rickd203 said:


> I think the government will extend unemployment a couple more times before they are forced to stop.


What concerns me is if/when this doesn't happen. Jobs will be even harder to find/acquire as people who have been mooching off the gov't will be forced to fend for themselves and find jobs. When they can't find the jobs crime is going to get even worse in my area. Scares me to death!
Makes me grateful to have a job as a supervisor at a HD, a company that is actually stable in todays economy.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

soulsurvivor said:


> Corporate control on supply and demand of the food supply has to stop. At some point folks are going to have to take care of our own and our community and stop allowing interference into the production and supply of locally grown and produced food. Food should never have a price tag attached. At most, bartering of exchanged services should suffice for food exchange.



Ummmm, unless you have tractor and combine parts, diesel, chemical fertilizer, herbicide, tires etc. etc. I doubt you have anything we would be willing to barter food for. 

On occasion we like to barter but we certainly cannot run a farm on gallons of milk, hand made quilts, fresh herbs or most other barter goods.

Sure, small scale, non mechanized farms that are organic are ideal in theory but have you ever actually considered the amount of work it takes to produce a years worth of food for one person?? food has a cost because it isn't free for me to feed you and I can't get oil for barter in the long term.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

*Bartering*: I'd certainly be willing to barter for waste veggie oil in exchange for food from my farm. I'd also be happy to pay for sewing, car repairs(I'm a horrible mechanic on engines)...heck, just about any service...with food.  

I know the farmer down the road (nice multi type farm...beef, dairy, hogs, corn, hay and the occasional oats) will barter for waste veggie oil, or filtered used waste oil, loads of stale bread (from the bakeries for his hogs)...venison (he doesn't like to hunt anymore for some reason), wood for his furnace (he has plenty of woods, but no time)....and other items. I think his son that raises the pigs pays for his kids' daycare with a hog every fall.*(both he and wife live in town and work as teachers...he pays for the pigs and feed and Dad(farm owner) does the work  )

They use the filtered waste oil to run the tractors and generators. It's simple and works well. :shrug: 

*Locking* cars/houses....we don't lock doors,either. If I'm at the mall or grocery store, then yes, I lock the car...but other wise...nope. House in town is wide open.(our town is population of 12000 people, 20minutes from the state Capitol) We had a problem with a neighbor kid once er, BORROWING things from the shop/garage, but a quiet talk with his dad stopped that. When we're gone on vacation, the house gets locked up...but if someone wants something we have bad enough..they'll break in. 

*Foodstamps*: don't get me started  suffice to say: A good idea that meant well, but became part of an out of control situation.

*Community Gardens*: well, sigh, great idea, but they DO require someone to keep the participants working. A couple of really committed folks who will teach others how to garden, etc. AND in most communities some form of security so the crops aren't taken by er, "the local thugs". There are a couple gardens in Madison that seem to work really well. I've seen a couple of large vans parked at the garden while there are maybe 20 people out in the garden working. There's a lockable shed there with the tools, etc. This particular garden always looks really great, tended well, and looks really productive. The people that I see working there are a mix of Latino and Asian. This garden is also just a block from a busline, so I imagine it's fairly easy to get to. 

That seems to be part of the problem with the gardens...if it's hard for the gardener to get to it, they don't. 

blah. time for coffee. need coffee.


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