# Lee loaders and .44 mag lever carbine



## Rectifier

I finally got my .44 mag lever carbine (Rossi Ranch Hand) that I planned to buy oh, a year ago or so! :happy:

I love the gun but we all know .44 mag is not cheap and in Canada, that is especially so. Also, full power .44 mag is pretty tiring to shoot!

I load my rifles with the hammer-style Lee Loader setups and I find them accurate, reliable and affordable. This is my first pistol cartridge and I'm wondering if these kits work well on straight-walled brass. It appears they don't crimp the bullet, do I need to crimp for my lever gun?

I also read that for lever guns the cartridge must be full length sized or they may jam, but how can this be when I can take the fired brass and chamber it with ease?

There is a note on Lee's site that "These calibers require considerable force for sizing". How serious are they about that? The rifle cartridges just require a modest swing of the mallet.


I would prefer not to buy a press and dies just for one caliber but if that is what I have to do, so be it


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## StL.Ed

Lee's site also says:
"*Please note:* the Classic Lee Loader neck sizes only. This is not recommended for semi, pump and lever action guns."

http://leeprecision.com/lee-loader-44-mag.html

It might just be time to get a press. 

ETA: I wonder if not crimping will be more prone to bullet movement from recoil in a tube magazine.


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## Bearfootfarm

> Lee's site also says:
> "Please note: the Classic Lee Loader neck sizes only. This is not recommended for semi, pump and lever action guns."


You can't "neck size" a straight wall cartridge like a 44 magnum.
I do agree it's better to use a press and it's not hard to find good used equipment.

A crimp is needed to ensure the bullets won't move, and to help generate consistent pressures in the loads.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

adding a press only adds 40 dollars lee has a C press for 37.99

or the O frame press for 69.99

but I would go with the lee classic cast turret 

I tried to go cheap first , I would have been money ahead to just go strait to the classic cast turret 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/785993/lee-classic-4-hole-turret-press-deluxe-kit

you can load everything from small pistol rounds to 30-06 rifle easily your dies stay in the turret and pop out and the next caliber in in seconds , and it makes a loaded round with every 4 pulls you size , prime on the down stroke , drop powder and flare the case mouth on the up stroke , then add a bullet and seat then crimp , not much chance to double charge , if you get called away you finish the round you are on and then you start a new on when you come back


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## mustangglp

The 44 mag is the easiest cartridge to load and the most versatile that I load for . I use a Lee 1000 press the whole set up is less then 200 dies, powder measure priming setup .


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## liddledoggie

be careful with that ranch hand. i started with one rossi lever action but have 4 now. they seem to reproduce. i agree with greencountry pete on the classic turret press kit. if i had bought it first i would have saved alot of money. joe


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## hoddedloki

The reason that Rossi insists on full length cartridges is because of the tubular magazine and shell carrier. I know that on the Winchester 1873, when you drop the lever to get the next shell, the third shell is stopped from coming out of the magazine into the carrier by the second shell. If the second shell is too short, it does not stop the third shell from protruding from the magazine into the carrier, which results in a jam. The mechanism for the Ranch hand is based on a '92, which uses much the same system. If you want to test this, load several fired shells in the magazine, and start cycling the action. It will probably jam.

Short story, make sure that you consistently get the OAL of the shells that you hand load correct.

Loki


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## joejeep92

You will be just fine in my experience. I have loaded for several lever-gun cartridges with a Lee loader. The trick is to use brass from that gun. If you read the instructions, the lee loader can be used to crimp. A sturdy enough crimp that I have used it to crimp some fairly heavy 45-70 loads with zero problems. While it can load them, you might look into the Lyman 310 or Lee hand press at a later date.


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## Dutch 106

I have one in 357 mag, it seems to have no problem feeding 38specials but I hear this depends on the individual gun your using. I really like mine, I had a 44 mag as well but traded it off to a buddy of mine. I'd try and find someone with a few rounds of 44 special and see if you can beg buy and try them. 
I have been reloading for about 40 years and can highly recommend it. If reloading straight wall cartridge's including things like 45-70. be sure to break the sharp square edge on the inside wall. there are hand tools galore to do this, or lee has a overall length tool that you can cut the cases back to minimum specification that seems to help with semi-auto loading in particular.
Be careful reloading is a lot like fishing you can buy all sorts of toys to do stuff. Some of it helps some will just fill the tool chest.
Also I cast a lot of lead bullets for 357 mag/ 38 special when I was first out of the service in a iron frying pan on a Coleman stove on the tailgate of an old truck. with that it cuts the cost down on your reloading.
Dutch


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## tamarackreg

I loaded a LOT of .44 Mags with a Lee O-Frame and a scale. It is still sturdy, tight and smooth after loading 1000's and 1000's of various rounds over the years. 

Lee accessories allow you to modify the process without breaking the bank.


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## Rectifier

Thanks for all the input everyone, the main reason I don't really want a press is not so much the cost, but the size and portability. All I need is a hammer and about 1 square foot of space, and I've loaded everywhere from the tailgate of my truck to the lunch table at work.

I'm not one to really worry about the famous "bug out bag" but it is a nice feeling to be able to bring my reloading setup with me if I need it!

I love the look of the turret press but I load fairly low volumes and really am interested in something more portable. 
So I'm kind of looking at the Lee Hand Press at the moment, has anyone used it for .44 mag? Will it result in bulging forearms or carpal tunnel syndrome?


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## Rectifier

Oh yeah, I just started looking at the Pro 1000 setups. I didn't realize they were progressive presses for that price.
They seem too cheap to be true, complete with carbide dies for ~$200US? Do I need to buy a bunch of other components or is it ready to go? I noticed they sell them caliber-specific, do they use regular Lee dies or are the dies fixed in some way?

The Pro 1000 plus a hand press for portability might be pretty nice if the dies can be used in both. It also might result in me shooting a lot more .44, lol. I'm sure the ammo will not be as accurate but hey, it's only pistol shooting, right?


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## Bearfootfarm

hoddedloki said:


> *The reason that Rossi insists on full length cartridges* is because of the tubular magazine and shell carrier. I know that on the Winchester 1873, when you drop the lever to get the next shell, the third shell is stopped from coming out of the magazine into the carrier by the second shell. If the second shell is too short, it does not stop the third shell from protruding from the magazine into the carrier, which results in a jam. The mechanism for the Ranch hand is based on a '92, which uses much the same system. If you want to test this, load several fired shells in the magazine, and start cycling the action. It will probably jam.
> 
> Short story, make sure that you consistently get the OAL of the shells that you hand load correct.
> 
> Loki


"OAL" has nothing to do with "full length resizing"
One refers to the length of the loaded round (Overall Length or OAL) and the other refers to returning the fired case to it's original dimensions (Resizing)

The reason they recommend "full length resizing" for lever actions and semi-autos is the lack the camming force of a bolt action to lock the breech is the case is slightly oversized.


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## tamarackreg

If you really want a hand press, get both.

You won't be sorry.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

you may save a bundle and still spend more reloading 


I reload 38spl for less than a dime a round , the current price for 22lr , yet I am sure I am not saving any money because now I shoot a lot more.

for years I would maybe shoot 250 to 500 rounds of 9mm in a year , I started reloading it got in some leagues and now I easily shoot that in a month

but I am also a much better shot for it


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## tamarackreg

BTW, the Lee depriming die full length sizes the brass on the depriming stroke.


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## Rectifier

Yep, my hammer loaders save me money because I can't produce ammo in too much bulk. So I don't really shoot that much more. I do most of my target practice/plinking with .22LR and .177 air rifle and save my centerfire rifles for hunting. However with access to a tool that can produce a round every 10 seconds, I definitely would shoot more! 

Canada prices are bringing me back down to earth on the progressive press, that $180USD press is $375 here. More than just the exchange rate, plenty of Canada premium there. Maybe I'll just go with dies and hand press. 

Pete, is it just USA bullet pricing making your 38spl look so cheap to me? As I've priced .44 mag plinking rounds: 
- primer 0.05 
- 8 grains of Unique 0.08 
- hard cast lead bullet, lubricated, no gas check $0.17 shipped or $0.25 locally

Making my round about $0.30 minimum. Of course, we are buying .44 mag factory rounds for over a dollar each while yours are well under a dollar in the USA.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I cast my own bullets so lead at about a dollar a pound runs me 1USD a pound as scrap that makes about 56 bullets in 38 less in 44
that's if I even count the cost of lead , some of it comes when I get work done at the mechanic he eases the pain of big repair bills with a bucket of lead any time he can.

I am using sellier & bellot primers I found at 19.99usd per 1000 +5.5% sales tax so 2.1 cents brass in 38 seems to last forever and I am running a charge of either Tightwad for real powder puff loads or Power Pistol for normal power that runs about 1.6 cents a round if I had to buy locally available cast and lubed bullets it would add about 8 cents a bullet It probably helps there is a commercial caster about an hours drive away and my local shop carries their product.



for plinking rounds a gas check is not needed , actually for anything less than full out magnum rounds the 44 shouldn't need a gas check as long as you have good fit 


I started casting with a lee mold , a soup ladle , a slotted spoon , in a good will stainless steel sauce pan on a Colman stove on my picnic table it was actually a borrowed mold I had like 5 dollars in the set up

now I run a Lee 4-20 bottom pour pot and wish I had a second maybe even a 3rd but I make do with one for now , I would have one just for soft lead for muzzle loading round balls and conicals , then the other 2 set up for casting Wheel weight lead or range scrap for pistol bullets mainly because when I get on a roll I run a 20 pound pot low just about the time I am really dropping bullets nice then I have to add more lead and wait to come up to temp again about as long as it would take to drain a second pot 

for spru plate Lube 2 cycle oil and a qtip works well

there is very little waste in casting , but you only get about 1/3 the pots weight in bullets because you don't run it dry and because of the sprue , which goes back in the pot but is necessary to the full fill out of a bullet 

so a 20 pound pot is good for between 150 and 350 bullets for the 240gr to 120gr range you might get a few more , you would increase that if the mold is still hot from pouring on the other pot and avoid the bullets you drop in the sprue pile while warming up the mold 

loading hornady XTP I figured I was loading for about 35 cents each and to buy them was about 75 to a dollar 

factory 44 mag prices here are about 40-45 dollars a box of 50 rounds 

XTP 44mag 200gr loaded are 91 cents a round on sale right now the bullet is 21 cents of that
so not to far under that dollar
save your brass the stuff is like gold


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## Rectifier

Our factory prices are about $60/50 rounds.

8 cents a bullet is a good deal! It almost makes me wonder why you put the effort in to collect lead and spend the time to cast it. Though if you enjoy it that's what counts, kind of like me wasting my time trapping in the winters.

I got the Lee hand press with ram prime and set of 3 carbide dies. I'm surprised how little force is needed on the hand press. Love the ram prime. Didn't get the factory crimp/postsizer and I don't think I need it, the bullet seating die makes a nice crimp itself.

I got 240gr SWC with moly lube for $0.20. Standard powder shortage up here so I ended up with 800x. I'm pretty happy with 9 grains of 800x for plinking, though I think I could go lighter if I wanted really sissy loads. 800x looks really versatile as well, it can drive them at full magnum speeds if I load up properly.

Fun gun to shoot now that I have light and cheap loads. Really fun! I'm going to have to set up a course where I can walk about and bang some gongs.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

when you shoot several thousand a year even 8 cents gets spendy . I don't make that much in a day at work but I can make that many bullets in less time than it would take me to make it at work and pay the tax mans cut and I don't mind the work of making bullets

my wife gets a kick out of the " I live on a fixed income " line she hears so often , like I don't there are only so many hours work will pay you for when you max those out its fixed by the available time in a day 
I believe Ben wasn't talking about saving pennies in a jar when he said " a penny saved is a penny earned." I believe it went much further than that , that things or services of value that you could do your self to reduce costs were as good as earned money.


make sure to always keep 8 or more meters back from any steel shot with a pistol or if a steel target has specific instructions follow them

make sure to wear safety glasses , pieces still come back just that they are smaller and not moving as fast once you get back past 8 meters 

and never shoot dimpled steel plates , like the craters left from rifle loads 

those craters spit larger chunks of the bullet back at you at a different angle than flat steel lets just say bullet fragment holes in you aren't any fun either.


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## Jolly

While not quite as fast as the turrent press, the Lee O-frame kit will do the job well, for a bit less money.

As others have said, if you cast your own bullets (and the .44 mag works well with them) you can really, really cut your cost.


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