# How to start a bottle calf on hay



## stifflej (Aug 11, 2008)

I am bottle feeding my first calf, and she is doing well. She is four weeks old now, and I would like for her to start eating some hay, but she is not interested. I built a little hay rack for her, and have hay in it 24x7, but she doesn't seem to want it, and has yet to touch it? Is there something I should be doing to get her to start to eat it? I feed her 2 quarts of MR twice a day, and a little bit of calf manna, which she just picks at (eats less then a pound a day). The calf is a Hereford. Is there anything I should be doing differently?

Thanks.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

no, do nothing differently. just make sure the hay is fresh and clean, rather than musty smelling. you might go pick some grass or weeds and put that in the hay rack also. she will eat when her body is ready. Its an instinct thing.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

forget the hay get her going on grain.
Grain is what gets the rumen working so that it can process the hay.
Save the hay till she's weaned. Shouldn't have to "teach" her about that, she should get on it with no problem.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

I keep feed, hay, water, and minerals in front of them. (usually from day one) They figure it out eventually. Some are quicker than others. When the calf wants/needs the hay, they will get to it. Just keep feed, hay, and water changed daily. Don't put too much feed and hay in the pen because you'll have a lot of wastes if you're replacing it each day. (makes good goat and chicken feed)

BTW, a pound of calf manna is quite a lot in my opinion. She ought to be getting her protein needs met with that small amount if it's the stuff I'm thinking about. (small pink pellets that are about 20% protein and 20% fat content)

When I feed my calves cheapo sweet feed with about 1/4 the nutrition value I shoot for having them eat four lbs. per day. Just my two cents.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

you should not have to feed grain at all. cows are grass eaters. with a little calf manna, and the milk replacer, plus minerals, you dont need what the grain gives. I highly encourage you NOT to go the grain route.


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## Calfkeeper (Feb 1, 2006)

I concur with everyone above; she'll eat hay when she's ready. Some do much earlier than others.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

No green grass available? They nipple grass around three weeks old...Topside


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I always feed grass hay way before I ever start feeding grain, I have very good luck with this. I`m with lonelyfarmgirl on this one, get them going on hay first, then on some grain. I like feeding oats as my grain with a bit of corn and pellets in it. Just keep fresh hay in front of your calf, they eat when they are ready. >Thanks Marc


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2010)

Calfkeeper said:


> I concur with everyone above; she'll eat hay when she's ready. Some do much earlier than others.


Ditto. 

Some start nibbling when they're awfully little; others are late bloomers. Never try to force them. They will pick their own right time.


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## LibertyWool (Oct 23, 2008)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> you should not have to feed grain at all. cows are grass eaters. with a little calf manna, and the milk replacer, plus minerals, you dont need what the grain gives. I highly encourage you NOT to go the grain route.


I have to totally disagree with you. It has been proven that feeding grain helps the rumen develop faster, which is important if you are bottle feeding (Both economically and time wise). 

This is a link about it:

http://www.das.psu.edu/research-extension/dairy/nutrition/calves/resolveuid/c5fe161d7fff47680d5e168ed59a9f81


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

> you dont need what the grain gives


Sorry, you are totally wrong about this. 
There have been many studies that show grain and fresh water are exactly what is needed to get the rumen big and sturdy so that when she starts hitting the hay hard she will be able to fully utilize it.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I think this is the first time I have disagreed with Sam. To each his own I guess, we have never been big grain feeders. I have no idea what study you have read, but there are alot of things that have studies that I don`t go by. I also don`t feed alfalfa hay to calves, unless it has been rained on once. Just what works for me.>Thanks Marc


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

sammyd said:


> Sorry, you are totally wrong about this.
> There have been many studies that show grain and fresh water are exactly what is needed to get the rumen big and sturdy so that when she starts hitting the hay hard she will be able to fully utilize it.



thats very interesting, since we are 100% grass-fed and have been for years. we have herefords, and hereford/angus, pinzgauer, and some other bigger beef breeds. We never feed our calves or cows grain, and their rumens develop just fine. they are big, fast growing and beautiful, and the finished meat is tender and excellent, regardless of the age of the animal.

grain, corn especially, creates an acid condition to the flesh, which is why a grain fed steer must be butchered around 18 months, otherwise the flesh is tough.

Now, feeding grain will finish the animal a year sooner, but is it more worth it to rush and get fatty, acidic, tough meat, or feed that animal naturally, save the cost of buying feed, and get a healthier, more tender product?


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

do you leave your calves on the cow?

grain does not create an acidic condition in the meat.
That's a totally new lie that I've never heard before.

If you have to lie to sell your stuff it must be next to worthless.....


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## stifflej (Aug 11, 2008)

Wow, amazing how a question from a new calf raiser (unexpected at that) will start the grain/no grain argument. Which, BTW, was not the intent of this post. I do however, feed grain all year when raising my feeders.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

for us it boils down to getting them up and out so we can get a new batch in.
After looking around the net and reading some off the net we discovered that pushing the grain and water and holding back on the hay will increase the growth and development of the rumen letting us wean on time every time.
When we are buying 60 dollar bags of milk replacer or when we are using our goats milk to feed out calves it is important to us to hold down costs and have a good throughput of animals.
We typically wean at 8 weeks and the last batch weaned in 7. 
They are fat and healthy out on their pasture and we are able to bring in a new batch that much sooner. More batches per year=more money in the pocket.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

> with a little calf manna, and the milk replacer, plus minerals, you dont need what the grain gives.


LOL what do you think calf manna is?

Soybean meal, corn, hominy feed, feeding oatmeal, 

hmmmmmm grain......


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

From the moderator. This post has been brought to the attendion of the forum board as becoming not 'nice'. Personally I don't see a problem with the put and take as long as it is kept friendly. I'm not going to lock the thread. Will just keep an eye on it.

Just be civil to each other. We all have our own points of views.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I sure would keep grain in front at all times. Hay just let it stay there the calf will start to nibble on it in time, but the main thing is get him started on good calf starter Grain~!
And keep hi on the grain, throughout his life.
Then what I have been doing for the past 20 years is feed nothing BUT Grain for the last 4 months to butcher time~!
Makes fine nice tender meat.
I keep grain in front of my calves 24/7 and they get nothing but grain at the end.
Grain fed in IMO is not only better tasting but is so tender you don't even need a sharp knife.
The toughest steak from my steers have been from those that have only had grass and hay to finish them out, never will I ever do such a thing again.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I have no Idea why anyone thought this was getting not so nice, just a differance of opinion. Smile everyone. >Thanks Marc


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

I bet I know..it happens all the time.

still smilin'


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Years ago I was at the local livestock market just going around and looking at the pens. In one a newborne calf (still had a wet cord) was standing there nibbling on the hay in the pen.

Grain fed and you end up with internal marbling, which allows for fast cooking and the ol' so good beef fat taste. Grass raised and that marbling just isn't there. Meat must be slow cooked. Now I m sure someone will disagree on the latter.


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## LizD (Dec 4, 2008)

Hmm sorry Ken, but grassfed beef is what we have been doing for years and a lot depends on the breed about marbling and tenderness. We finish at twenty-four to twenty-six months, depending on the time they were born and access to grass. Our breed we raise is Dexter and the meat is tender, well marbled and tasty. If you go to the 'marbling' thread, started by Ronny, you will see some grassfed steaks that are well marbled only on grass diets. Cattle are feedlotted and fed grain because they finish faster and economically that works for some. While it is true that cattle in the past would have had access to some wild grains; oats, barley, rye in their wild pastures, they wouldn't have had soy or corn, but it is the soy and the corn that make that steer finish early. It is also true that calves digest grain better than adult cattle, but they need grass or hay for rumen development, not grain. 

Stifflej, sorry if you think this thread got hijacked but actually grass or grain is quite a fundamental argument in raising any rumenant, cattle included, so if you ask a question about feeding a calf, expect the debate.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I dont think I could say it better than lizD, so I wont.


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## kirsten (Aug 29, 2005)

We didn't grain our first bottle calf years ago, just milk and grass and the vet said he died of starvation. He had other issues too but this time around, we are making sure to isolate our calf for grain time in the afternoons although he is almost 7 weeks and still doesn't eat the calf flakes! Tomorrow, I am gong to try to tempt him with lots of molasses or something.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Here's my opinion:
1. If your raising a bottle calf and it's weaned on average at 8 weeks old then it needs grain. If your going to continue to feeding it MR or cow's/goat's milk for many more months then it doesn't need grain, why would it?. Think veal calves. Grain supplements the nutritional intake during weaning or are the feed mills just ripping us off. Please.

2. Picture a calf/cow operation does that calf get grains? No because it's drinks milk all day and night as long as mama cow will let it. A weaned 8 week old calf does need grains or yes it will die....Of course that's my opinion. Topside


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

the OP was about a bottle calf.

If I was a cow/calf operator I probably wouldn't feed grain either.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

sammyd said:


> the OP was about a bottle calf.
> 
> If I was a cow/calf operator I probably wouldn't feed grain either.


Same here. we are talking about raising one or more up for meat, and good tasting meat at that.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

SteffieJ, just so you know a bottle calf will eat calf starter grains long before it ever will eat any hay...Sounds like you have things under control....Topside


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Hey top, I can`t agree with you either, my calves are after hay darn quick. now I feed high quality grass hay, and they think they are on pasture when they are eating it. So they go after it very quick, I guess my calves are odd. >Thanks Marc


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Marc, you are way my more experienced than me, that's for sure. High quality hay, you must be sprinkling some sort of sweetness on that hay. I've only raised 60 bottle calves up till now and none that I can remember will even eat grass regularly till they are three weeks old. Are there any farms for sale on your road? I do have poor soil and I guess junkie hay too. Kidding as always. What really should matter to calf raisers, did the calf live? Is the calf healthy? Did I learn something from the experience? What changes will I make next time....Well I'm off to the barn to have a talk with my calves apparently they are slow learners...Kidding again..Topside over and Out.


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## Ellen West (Sep 17, 2010)

Cattle love molasses - they'll eat just about anything you spray it on. Just dilute it with water so it'll go through through the sprayer, then rinse the nozzle so it doesn't clog up.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Ellen West, you are so right, I had a little country feed store near me that use to have liquid molasses. I use to buy it by the barrel from him, and then made my own horse and calf feed. Had a guy tell me one time he was low on hay, so he baled up a bunch of old grass round bales from pasture ground and poured molasses over the bales so the cows would eat them better. I guess they ate everything but the bale ring.
And Top I`m not sure if I have more experience or not, but I have had alot of cattle over the last thirty some years. But you know what, I know that I don`t know everything, I hope to learn something everyday and teach something new to someone.>Thanks marc


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## Katmoe (Nov 30, 2020)

springvalley said:


> Hey top, I can`t agree with you either, my calves are after hay darn quick. now I feed high quality grass hay, and they think they are on pasture when they are eating it. So they go after it very quick, I guess my calves are odd. >Thanks Marc


Mine are the same, that’s why I am on this forum trying to find some info. I have some great quality grass hay that I offer along with clad starter pellets and calfmanna. They love the hay. I thought that was strange but it’s their choice. They are about 3 weeks old.


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

My newest Dexter calf nibbled a little grass at 4 days old. She sampled some hay at about a week old. She is on grass, hay and Mam's milk with sweet feed offered laced with minerals. She ignores the sweet feed. She is about the 60th calf I've raised like this. They do quite well. Every one reached maturity in good health.


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