# canning guidelines question



## northergardener (Dec 12, 2007)

I know that I am not suppose to can very thick foods like pumpkin puree, because the food doesn't get hot enough consistently throughout the food to kill off the bad microorganisms. That makes sense to me. 
My question is: what are commercial canners doing different that their pumpkin puree is ok? I know that they are using metal cans and I am using glass, but aren't they doing essentially the same process that I am when I can? Why is a commercially canned pumpkin puree safe to eat?


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## Pepsiboy (Dec 2, 2014)

northergardener said:


> I know that I am not suppose to can very thick foods like pumpkin puree, because the food doesn't get hot enough consistently throughout the food to kill off the bad microorganisms. That makes sense to me.
> My question is: what are commercial canners doing different that their pumpkin puree is ok? I know that they are using metal cans and I am using glass, but aren't they doing essentially the same process that I am when I can? Why is a commercially canned pumpkin puree safe to eat?


 Northgardener,

We canned our pumpkin last year with NO PROBLEMS. We precook the pumpkin in chunks, then run through the food mill to make a puree. then we cook it down to make it thick. Then we put into pint jars and water bath for 30 minutes after it boils. 
1 pint make 1 pumpkin pie. MMMMMM Good ! ! !

Dave


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

You can,"can" just about anything provided you do it the proper way.A good place to start is by getting a copy of "BAll's Blue Book". It is filled with very accurate,easy to understand instructions. The second thing,when in doubt, pressure can. 
Home canning has been a life long adventure for many here. Welcome to our exclusive club! LOL !

Wade


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## shelljo (Feb 1, 2005)

Northgardener, I don't KNOW either. Do they use higher temperatures? More pressure? Is the difference the can vs the jar? I don't know!

Maybe it's a conspiracy to keep us buying canned pumpkin instead of just doing it ourselves! Like you, I'd like to know WHY!


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## Janis R (Jun 27, 2013)

I think the commercial canners can at higher heat.
You can can pumpkin in chunks and then puree after you open it up, I usually let my squash drain first.


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

Pepsiboy said:


> Northgardener,
> 
> We canned our pumpkin last year with NO PROBLEMS. We precook the pumpkin in chunks, then run through the food mill to make a puree. then we cook it down to make it thick. Then we put into pint jars and water bath for 30 minutes after it boils.
> 1 pint make 1 pumpkin pie. MMMMMM Good ! ! !
> ...


If you want to assure your food is good for your family, this is a primer on what NOT TO DO!!!


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Pepsiboy said:


> Northgardener,
> 
> We canned our pumpkin last year with NO PROBLEMS. We precook the pumpkin in chunks, then run through the food mill to make a puree. then we cook it down to make it thick. Then we put into pint jars and water bath for 30 minutes after it boils.
> 1 pint make 1 pumpkin pie. MMMMMM Good ! ! !
> ...


I'm sorry to be so blunt but you have been very lucky that you haven't killed someone yet. You cannot safely can pumpkin puree in a home kitchen. Your kitchen stove can't generate enough heat to penetrate that dense puree. Commercial processors can generate more heat and have different equipment that allow them to process purees safely. Also, low acid foods such as pumpkin cannot be canned safely using a water bath. They must be pressure canned. 

Please check out either the Ball Blue Book of Home Canning or the National Center for Home Food Preservation website for safe recipes, methods and processing times.


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## Homesteader (Jul 13, 2002)

Pepsiboy, do you know what botulism is? Do you know at what temperature it is killed? (way above the boiling point of water, which is all you get with water bath canning). It survives the temperatures of boiling water bath canning.

The toxin released when it multiplies, the one that KILLS people, cannot be smelled, seen or tasted.

PLEASE. Do the research, and at the very least, explain the facts to anyone you are feeding your pumpkin puree to, so they can make the choice if they want to risk their life.

Bot is not going to be present in every jar. But it is in the air and in the soil and you cannot tell if it is your jar when it is. 

Saying you have had no problems, does not mean that the potential life-threatening toxin does not exist.

That's like saying, well, I've never been killed by a drunk driver so therefore, it's safe for me to drive, there is no danger of being killed by one.

Please, we want you around a long long time okay?


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## Werforpsu (Aug 8, 2013)

I have read that commercial canners use higher heat and pressure then is possible in a home kitchen. 
I have been very sad to not be able to can the puree, but I have canned the chunks and it is very easy and I have had great success with doing it that way. it's not that big of a deal to puree after...it's actually less mess this way because I have one jar of chunks drained and going into the blender before being poured into whatever I am using it for....no crazy canning messes like you get making sauces!

As others have said...pumpkin should be canned in a pressure canner due to its low acidity.

Also, FYI: Pumpkin butter is considered a no no for canning as well.


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## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

I wouldn't dream of canning a low-acid vegetable in anything but a pressure canner. However, I still wish there was an actual study that could prove to me that a pint of pumpkin puree was so different from a pint of 1" cubes of solid pumpkin regarding heat transfer. Just wondering.


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## Werforpsu (Aug 8, 2013)

Marilyn said:


> I wouldn't dream of canning a low-acid vegetable in anything but a pressure canner. However, I still wish there was an actual study that could prove to me that a pint of pumpkin puree was so different from a pint of 1" cubes of solid pumpkin regarding heat transfer. Just wondering.


What I have read, says that it has to do with the thickness of the pumpkin. Apparently some pumpkin is thicker than others, There is no consistency. They say that by putting the chunks in there with the liquid that then that ensures that the liquid gets up to temperature which makes the chunks get up to temperature. I don't know, I have never had a pumpkin fresh purÃ©ed that was super thick. They always seem to me like The consistency of thin applesauce.


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## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

_*I agree!*_ I remember when I first started canning (a lifetime ago), the puree was so thin that I used to strain some of the liquid off before making pie.


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## Werforpsu (Aug 8, 2013)

I always used to set it in a mesh colander for the time it takes to make the crust.


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

I canned squash puree before I knew better, it all seemed ok, but after a year many of the jars unsealed, never a serious problem with anything else. The pressure cooker kills the spores of botulism, the actual toxin created can be neutralized by boiling if I remember correctly. 


> The toxin is destroyed by heating to more than 85 Â°C (185 Â°F) for longer than 5 minutes.


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botulism

So pepsiboy, just be sure to heat that puree up for a while


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## Metalman (Dec 8, 2012)

northergardener said:


> I know that I am not suppose to can very thick foods like pumpkin puree, because the food doesn't get hot enough consistently throughout the food to kill off the bad microorganisms. That makes sense to me.
> My question is: what are commercial canners doing different that their pumpkin puree is ok? I know that they are using metal cans and I am using glass, but aren't they doing essentially the same process that I am when I can? Why is a commercially canned pumpkin puree safe to eat?


I am skeptical of the science supporting the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) recommendation against home canning of pumpkin and squash puree and butters. When serving as an expert witness for civil litigation case during my prior career as an engineering consultant, I reviewed expert reports and depositions prepared by opponents. As a retired-recovering engineer and expert witness, I am burdened with a compulsion to question the basis of claims like the FDA assertion that home canning of pumpkin puree and butters must be avoided. I hope other readers will contact their elected state and federal officials to request that the FDA be required to prove that their recommendation against home canning of pumpkin puree and butters are based on sound science rather than protection of a small, but powerful, special-interest group within the factory food industry.

Dr. Stephen Pratt identified pumpkin and squash as one of the superfoods in _Superfood Rx: Fourteen Foods That Will Change Your Life. _The well-researched book _Pumpkin: The Curious History of an American Icon _by Professor Cindy Ott includes a fascinating account of the evolution of the pumpkin canning factory at Morton, Illinois. Ott reported that the Morton factory enjoys an effective monopoly by producing approximately 85% of the canned pumpkin puree sold in the USA. Readers who can obtain a copy of _Pumpkin_ are encouraged to read Ottâs description of the canning process at Morton prior to shopping for canned pumpkin puree. All this production is from a single âpumpkinâ variety selected decades ago by the cannery founders that many consumers would not even recognize as a pumpkin. Consequently, consumers wishing to follow Pratt's recommendations to âeat more pumpkinâ are limited to seasonal pumpkins or the single variety of canned puree from Morton. Imagine the skepticism and uproar if a federal agency issued an edict that effectively banned small-batch, craft breweries from competing with the international brewery factories for consumers' business.

We discovered that the soil in and climate over our market garden in Central Texas can produce marvelous examples of the heritage pumpkin varieties developed in other countries, such as Australia, France, Italy, South Africa, etc. Shoppers at the local farmers' market have purchased our pumpkins and reported enjoying them immensely. Our longer range plan is to develop âvalue addedâ products from our garden and orchard produce. While investigating potential âvalue addedâ products from our pumpkin crops, I found references in seed catalogs to a variety of canned pumpkin products that are popular in Italy. This led me to search for the scientific basis of the FDA's recommendation against home canning pumpkin puree and butters that effectively bans sale of these products at farmers' markets.

The only explanation supporting the FDA's recommendation that I found on the FDA's website was a reprint of a brief paper by a University of Georgia Extension Agent. That paper cited a 1978 report published by a professor and an email from another professor. In my prior role as an expert-witness, I would have opined that the evidence presented by the opposition was too flimsy to support the conclusion, and potentially flawed by conflict of interest.

The issue of the scientific validity of the FDA's recommendation against home canning of pumpkin and squash puree and butters is not a trivial matter. The evolution of the local-food movement across the USA clearly demonstrates widespread public dissatisfaction with the factory food industry, such as the effective monopoly held by the Morton pumpkin cannery. The evidence that pumpkin and winter squash are truly superfoods appears overwhelming. Consequently, increased availability of a wide variety of high-quality, canned pumpkin and squash products at farmers' markets, roadside food stands, and health food stores is clearly in the public interest.
I hope readers will join in challenging the FDA's recommendation against home canning of various pumpkin and squash products. Reports from readers who have lived in other countries where home canning of pumpkin and squash products is common would be especially valuable to US consumers.

Read the above a few times and sleep on it before you unleash an attack on what I have written. Best of all, find a copy of Ott's book _Pumpkin_ and read about the Morton processing. Finally try a Google search for "Food Manufacturers Association" and read what you find about their lobbying successes in Washington, D.C. Maybe we really have the best government that can be bought.

Just remember - Sticks and stones may break my bones, but unkind words 
reflect most on those who hurl them.

Metalman
Deep in the heart of Texas and concerned with the direction our country and culture are being driven by state and federal bureaucrats


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## Metalman (Dec 8, 2012)

Marilyn said:


> I wouldn't dream of canning a low-acid vegetable in anything but a pressure canner. However, *I still wish there was an actual study that could prove to me that a pint of pumpkin puree was so different from a pint of 1" cubes of solid pumpkin regarding heat transfer. *Just wondering.


You sound like a very bright and thoughtful lady. Maybe you are an engineer like me (Metalman). 

Please read my comment describing why I am so skeptical of the FDA - USDA recommendation against canning pumpkin puree and butters. My only real questions are "who was influenced to make the recommendation" and "what was the cost."

I hope you can find a copy of Ott's book _Pumpkin_ and read her description of the Morton cannery process. My wife and I took a vow to never buy another can after reading that description. 

Some of the posts supporting the FDA - USDA position on pumpkin puree are truly sad... They may not even understand the very basic question you posed.

Hang in there and never fear to ask the awkward questions like this one...

Metalman


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## arrocks (Oct 26, 2011)

northergardener said:


> I know that I am not suppose to can very thick foods like pumpkin puree, because the food doesn't get hot enough consistently throughout the food to kill off the bad microorganisms. That makes sense to me.
> My question is: what are commercial canners doing different that their pumpkin puree is ok? I know that they are using metal cans and I am using glass, but aren't they doing essentially the same process that I am when I can? Why is a commercially canned pumpkin puree safe to eat?


In addition to the higher temps and high pressure autoclaves others have mentioned above, irradiation of food products prior to canning them is quite common in the commercial canning industry and is one of the many reasons why some commercially canned foods cannot be safely replicated in the home environment.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I did work in a cannery. The temperature and pressure was much higher.
I ran one of the scanners for three weeks in 1979.
I can't remember what the were now but came home with mom canning and was surprised it was o10 pounds for the same green beans...and I remember her telling....read the instructions for yourself..she was right.
I shut my mouth.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

kasilofhome said:


> I did work in a cannery. The temperature and pressure was much higher.
> I ran one of the scanners for three weeks in 1979.
> I can't remember what the were now but came home with mom canning and was surprised it was o10 pounds for the same green beans...and I remember her telling....read the instructions for yourself..she was right.
> I shut my mouth.



and the time was much less. For some things you keep under pressure for hours it really takes just a few minutes at higher temps. The best is the home processing of eggs. the reason it's not ok now was a total doofus. read up if you want to. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4934a2.htm

as for a home stove not being able to get hot at home... what nonsense is that? the stove top will easily produce 15000 btu's and melt your pot if one wanted it to.


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## jerseylover (Oct 27, 2014)

You can totally can pumpkin and squash, I do it every year. Just do it in a pressure canner and not a boiling water bath.  I think the stores are just trying to get people to buy their products rather than make their own at home.


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

jerseylover said:


> You can totally can pumpkin and squash, I do it every year. Just do it in a pressure canner and not a boiling water bath.  I think the stores are just trying to get people to buy their products rather than make their own at home.


Cut your pumkin and squash into chunks. You can puree it when you open the jars.

When all else fails, read your book. Remember the fatalities last summer when the person used home canned potatoes to make potato salad for a potluck dinner? I understand that she processed the potatoes in a water bath canner. If you are the only person to consume your home canned foods, do it any way you want. But once you put it into someone else's mouth, it's a whole new ball game.

I don't think the stores are in the business of advising home canners.


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## arrocks (Oct 26, 2011)

jerseylover said:


> You can totally can pumpkin and squash, I do it every year. Just do it in a pressure canner and not a boiling water bath.  I think the stores are just trying to get people to buy their products rather than make their own at home.


Lots of things we* can* do. Doesn't mean we *should *do them.:facepalm:


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## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

jerseylover said:


> You can totally can pumpkin and squash, I do it every year. Just do it in a pressure canner and not a boiling water bath.  I think the stores are just trying to get people to buy their products rather than make their own at home.


 How long do you leave it in the pressure canner? I got a lot of pumpkin this year and I really didn't want to waste the freezer space by freezing all of it.


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## arrocks (Oct 26, 2011)

http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_04/pumpkin_winter_squash.html



> How long do you leave it in the pressure canner?


The link above gives you all the instructions for canning pumpkin including the processing time required.


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## OzarksFarmGirl (Apr 6, 2008)

I have USDA pamphlet that, while it stresses pressure canning is best for low acid foods, it allows that water bath canning can be used IF (and this is important!) the food, once removed from the jar, is boiled rapidly for 5 to 10 minutes before even so much as a tiny taste is taken. 

The food, once canned, must be boiled hard enough that bubbles are popping all over the at the surface for at least 5 (and preferably 10) minutes, as this is what releases the botulism gasses and makes the food safe to eat. And this has to be done on stove top, NEVER in the microwave. Our grandmothers, while they may not have known the science behind it, would never allow anyone to eat right from the jars. The women folk would open up their jars of food in the morning, empty the contents into a pot on the stove and let it boil, then simmer for hours until the menfolk got home. No one ever died, because any botulism that might have been in it had long since disappeared. 

I remember when I was a child, my grandmother warned me to NEVER to eat a green bean straight from the can, but to always boil it hard first. She didn't even trust store bought canned goods. She water bathed everything and fed not only her family, but made countless of meals from her water bath canned goods over the course of her lifetime for relatives, friends and neighbors and no one ever got ill from her cooking. But she ALWAYS boiled them first, even if she was going to using them for a cold recipe. For those, she would simply dip them in ice water AFTER she boiled them first. 

The problem is, people are in such a hurry now days, most can barely wait long enough to even cook and instead live manly on take-out or microwave meals. So water bath canning could, in fact, be potentially deadly to those people. But as long as you don't try to take any shortcuts and always boil the food afterward, you can safely "can" just about anything, without having to worry about killing yourself or someone else. 

By the way, after all of these years, I still boil any canned veg from the store before I taste it. Old habits, I guess. 

The bottom line is, as long as we follow the USDA's own rules for water bath canning low acid foods, why shouldn't we water bath can?


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## arrocks (Oct 26, 2011)

> The bottom line is, as long as we follow the USDA's own rules for water bath canning low acid foods, why shouldn't we water bath can?


How old is that pamphlet of yours? Current one - and past several updates - states "Pressure canning is the only recommended method for canning meat, poultry, seafood, and vege-tables. Therefore, all low-acid foods should be sterilized at temperatures of 240Â° to 250Â°F, attainable with pressure canners operated at 10 to 15 PSIG."

Nothing to be gained from trying BWB vegetables and a big risk to take.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

never can lowacid foods with the water bath method .why risk your life .use a pressur canner they last for generations are readily available new .and if you can't afford a new one used ones are a cheeper option .ebays full of em . why worry when pressure canners work fine .my cousin cans beans n corn the old way in a tub on a fire he boils tem for HOURS .then boils them a long time on the stove .in a pressure canner its about 90 mins. for meat and then its heat n eat and you arnt boiling out all the nutrition or turning every thing to mush .let alone watching over a stove for hours .and NOT RISKING YOUR LIFE .


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