# Why not use the 80,000 dams the USA has



## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

to produce electricity??????????????
Danville, Va., where I live has 4 dams built by Dan River Mills way back when. 
One of them is used to produce juice. Two of them were built for water storage for the mill. One was built for a steam plant and I am still not sure what that was all about but it isn't very high. Maybe 10' at the most but even that with the amount of flow would make a lot of juice.
I worked in the "power house" as it was called back then. 
If that little 28" pelton wheel makes 350 KW's of electricity with a 4.125" diameter pipe feeding it, each one of Dan Rivers can make 100 times that much. 
It feed D.R.M. for years before thet went to airconditioning, computers, new looms, ect., etc., etc.,. 
I worked in the 4-A weave room cleaning under the looms etc. on second shift when I was 15 years old. there was rows and rows of looms in there that had 7.5 and 10 H.P motors on them. 
I just talked to my wife and she worked as a warp attender right above 1-A weave room. She agrees with me that there agrees something like 20 to 30 looms in each row and 20 to 30 rows of them in each weave room. And there were 8 weave rooms. 
On the small end, 20 x 20 x 8 rooms = 3,200 looms. It had to be more than that because each loom fixture had 40 to 60 looms to keep running and Danville run for a long time off of a loom fixtures pay check. There were a lot of other jobs but the fixers made the most money.
Any way, you are looking at 24,000 KWs., just for the looms themselves. That isn't counting anything else and there is all kinds of things that go into making cloth as I am sure some of you already know. 
It comes in in bails of cotton, and comes out cloth so you give me a guesstimate of how amy KWs the "power House" produced??? 
I would say counting lighting, all the other shops, which included a machine shop the size of Walmart, plumbing shop, electrical shop,,,,, I am bumfuzzeled to even guess how much juice the dam made. 
I would say between 1/4 and 1/2 million KW's. 
And the plant is running mostly at 40% capibility. Plus the two dams below that could use the same water all over again. There is a potential to produce a millon + KW's within our city that would be green and cheep to build, considering the dams are lready there. 
1,000,000 KW's x .10 = $100,000 per hour. 2.4 millon per day x 365 days a year = $876,000,000 worth of juice setting at our finger tips. 

Something just aint right here. That much juice = $17,520 per person in the city of Danville for a year. 
I know. My math has got to be wrong here somewhere, but I can't find it if it is. I am tired tho. 

The main thing I am talking about it there is 80,000 dams in the USA and only 2,400 of them make electricity. Why is that????????

Dennis.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

It costs money to 'convert' a dam from non-electric producing to electric producing.

Also most dams, if they were not designed to produce electricity, will fill with silt. A reservoir that was originally 200 foot deep, after 40 years might easily be only 10 foot deep. Having filled in with silt.

A dam that was designed for power production, had to be designed in a manner to avoid filing with silt.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Also even if the dam is suitable, the NIMBY's will object, tying up the project in red tape and legal fees. So it had better be a pretty lucrative project, otherwise the cost of getting it into production, if it's even possible, will be too high.

You know, all the "we have to do everything possible for the environment to stop global warming WHAT DO YOU MEAN you want to build a turbine three miles away from me where I might want to look someday or a dam on a stream I once waded in? No WAY!" people.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

And theres the element who want to tear out those dams.
"Gotta return back to the way it was"

And those idiots still want to go 'home' to their AC, microwave, etc. etc.electrical appliances. . . . . .They have no *realistic* concept of electric generation.

My hats off to the person who bought a dam\generating plant here in my area. Local utility didn't want to mess with it.
Again the "bean counters" (for the utility) said "it ain't worth it"

I hope he can make a profit out of his efforts.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

I have often wondered why we don't use more hydro-electric.

We have a small dam in the town south of us. It was used to power a grist mill years ago.

I have lived here all my life, all 40 years of it, and have never seen the dam stop running over with water, even in our worst drought year in 1988. As well, I have asked alot of old timers who have said that it has never dried up.

Here is what is funny....I did some research wondering last night *how* a new hydro power generating site might be set up, and *how much* it would cost.

There is ALOT of water that falls over the face of the dam. Not a monsterous creek, but alot of water flows over that dam. It would be easy to pull lots and lots of power from this site. 

Several other grist mill dams still exist in our area, with lots of water with speed, but not nearly the size (height or width). 

I would love to see someone or a company use this to generate power. I really think we would be stunned to see how much electric could be generated.

Of course, it would take a small fortune in site aquisition, engineering, legal, building a hydro plant, and building a network of power lines to sell the energy. (Why sell your electric for wholesale to a backwards thinking electric company when you could potentially retail it to one of the nearby factories???)

(My father is a Senior grade, level 3 engineer with a major utility. While I cannot quote a single cost, I am always stunned when he shows me a "small" project and it costs $450,000!!!!!) 

This doesn't even include the work you would have to complete with the Army Corp of Engineers, Department of Natural Recourses, Indiana Utilities Regulatory Commission, State of Indiana, Department of Transportation (for right of way issues), local zoning, the local city and county, and public relations (Hey, man, you wanna build that where we fish and drink beer!!!!).

In closing, I truly believe we will see more and more hydro plants pop up as fuel costs increase, consumers demanding greener energy, the price of hydro falls, etc. It is going to take some forward thinking, some deep pockets and a change in our thinking.

Clove


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

But.... that dam has historic value, we must preserve it like it was, as a grist mill. We can't go around wrecking our history for the small tidbit of electricy it would give!

Meanwhile, China flooded over a huge, huge area with a massive hydro dam (Three Rivers Gorge I believe?), to power their country for the next 100 years or so.

--->Paul


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

There was a guy who built and put in the East River, NYC , a water turbine. It was on discovery channel. It was huge, he put it in the river and hooked it up directly to a local store. Gristededs', a store that lost a ton of food during the east coast black out a few years ago.
It was a very simple design , and it could be utilized in every river with significant water flow.
It is a shame that every state or county does not promote such things whether they be hydo, wind or solar.
Our landfill is windy at all times, why don't they put up some wind turbines? Our community College even spent weeks finding the right location on the property for a wind turbine. It was a class project. After all was done the project was stopped by an old cranky woman who lives next door. She did not want her view to be obstructed by it. It would have been3 miles from her house.


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

To start with, I wasn't really talking about an individual doing it. Like clovis said, nearly every town in the us has atleast one old dam with water running over it. 
I read where they are going to take down several of the larger dams which is plumb stupid in my book. We talking dams that produce several hundred megawatts with them. 

But I am talking about the small dams inside a city limits that would pretty much be able to shut the big government up because they are the government withing their boundries. 
The link I still can't get to post shows that 350 KW set up. And it only takes a 4.125" penstock (pipe) to supply the water to it. If they were to pipe the water from the 2nd dam here in Danville down to below the third dam they would get between 60 and 70 feet of head. That same turbine could power a 750 KW generator here considering the 350 I spoke of only has 19 feet of head. Or better yet run a 16" pipe down there and run 4 turbines. 
That would be 3 MW's. That is 26,280,000 MW's per year and they will last forever just about. 
That is $2.628,000.00 worth of juice a year. 
The city could budget the cost of setting it up and getting it running. They have an electrical crew anyway that usually isn't doing anything. They have a road crew and a pipe crew. 
Just one set up like that could save every house hold in Danville better than 20 bucks a month on their electric bill. 

And there is many dams that have plenty of water coming over that could use a banks turbine that serves lower head set up well. 

And the big thing about using a dam that is already there is the only thing you would have to do to the dam would be drill some bolt holes in it to secure a pipe to it. The pipe could go up the face of the dam and make a you turn right back down the backside a few feet to collect the watter. 
All you would ne to do to get the water flowing to start with or anytime it was stopped for repairs, would be to close the gate at the turbines and have a valve at the top where say the firedepartment could fill the pipe up. Close that valve off and open the gate and the tubines will be humming in a little while. Just like siffiling water from a barrel. 

As far as the ones that want to keep everything the same where a water wheel used to be you could build a cheap grain mill looking building with a "let's look at it" water wheel to make them happy and install the pump house in the basement out of site. 

It just doesn't make sense to me why we ship in coal and let things like this flow on down the stream.:shrug:

Dennis


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

I think a big problem in this nation is our mindset about energy.

When coal is as cheap as it is, and has been, it is too hard to change our way of thinking. Sad, but true. 

It is hard to believe that it is cheaper to aquire land, build a strip pit, mine the coal, and ship it from southern Indiana to a coal-electric generation plant hundreds of miles away than it is to set up small hydro generation plants.

Utilities spend millions and millions building natural gas fired peak generation plants when hydro would offset that need for power, or so I would think.

I think as energy prices begin to dominate the market place, we will see a change in our thinking to 'outside the box'. Too bad it will take high fuel costs to do so. I also think we are years and years away

Clove


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2008)

crafty2002 said:


> Like clovis said, nearly every town in the us has atleast one old dam with water running over it.


Not around here!

In fact, I haven't seen a dam anywhere around for a couple hundred miles.

Is there a map somewhere on the web showing dam locations?


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## Kevingr (Mar 10, 2006)

Back in the early 80's there was a company that was doing just that on the old dams here in MN. Not sure what happened to them, or even if they're still around, if they are you don't hear about it anymore. It seems to me like it would be a terriffic oportunity, but maybe there's more to it then I think.


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

Clovis made some good points about engineering and permit costs. Then there are liability issues, too, in case the dam didn't hold during excessive rains (such as recently in the midwest). But in our immediate area, there are at least 2 dams that Xcel Energy is still using on the Red Cedar River, to produce electricity.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

Small electric power dams are probably not economically feasible due to maintenance and plant operator costs. Power produced and sold must exceed costs to produce and yield a decent profit or there will be very little interest.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Maintenance? I toured Hoover Dam a while back, and the generators are still using the original bearings from the 1930s. A few tubes of grease, pull out a dead fish once in a while, and it's maintenance-free. 

A rancher here has two small hydro plants from a spring. He says they are very easy to maintain and well worth the cost.


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

This Web site shows 169 dams for Kansas. I doubt you could get enough inflow in even 10 of them to support any feasible working power units, probably closer to 5 if even that.
http://kansas.hometownlocator.com/features/Cultural,class,dam.cfm

They however do a fair job at helping recharge the aquifer.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

crafty2002 said:


> to produce electricity??????????????
> Danville, Va., where I live has 4 dams built by Dan River Mills way back when.


I just moved to Danville last fall and I have been wondering the same thing. Since the City of Danville buys much of its electricity on the open market, this sounds like an idea that should be explored. 

Rich


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> I just moved to Danville last fall and I have been wondering the same thing. Since the City of Danville buys much of its electricity on the open market, this sounds like an idea that should be explored.
> 
> Rich


Hey Rich, what on God's Green Earth made you move to this h--- hole??? I had my mother and father the last time I moved back here and that was the only reason I did so. 
If you are interested in it, I'd like to get together with you and we can go do a walk around and get some measurements numbers and all, and go to a council meating some time. 
The world is getting smaller every day. 
Have you seen what they are doing to Dan River Mills because of the NAFTA bull sh--. that is what built this city. Cities like this is what built the US and our own gubbernuts have turned their back on us.
I'll PM you my phone number so we can talk some times. But I am hard to catch. Either on the computer or outside trying to work. 
This kinda blows my mine. 
Take care
Dennis


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Well, I checked out Moonriver's post and didn't even go any further. I was getting ready to go back outside, LOL.

clovis, it is not our mindset. It is the gubbernuts mindset. They have created a monopoly on energy and sheeple to believe every word they say. I for one, am sick of it. I am fed up with the hole ball game. I am going to take thier ball and go home. 
I am either going to run for city council next term, or push some one better fitted for the job to run. As I said on another post, I would like to see every seat open, (which is half of them) next election to be changed. 

Ladycat, you may not have one around, but even if there was a site, and I have seen several, none of them shows anything less that a certain hieght. 
I was deer hunting a few years ago and jumpped some rabbits and followed them a ways and ran up on an old dam I had now idea was even there. It wasn't but about 10' high but even that would work with a low head turbine. 

kevingr, would you do me a favor and see if you can get any info on that company?? They may be interested in trying it with the ones in Danville.
I sure would like to have a lot of info if I do go to a city council meeting.

WisJim, I am sure there will be all sorts of hoops to jump through but you never know unless you try. And like I said, I would just as soon have the city do the deal, as long as it get done and it's fair to the tax payers. 
I think a city as large as Danville should be able to cut some of the red tape out of the way. 
And I will try to pull up info on Xcel Energy but any info you could find would help. 

Ed, I worked on the generators and turbines when I worked in the Machine shop in DRM, inc., and there isn't nothing to taking one of the whole unites apart and cleaning and putting back together. Like you said, the bearings last forever. All they do is shim the bearings, clean the generator and have the turbine rebuilt for another years run. 

Windy, I have never been to kanas so I don't know what the dams around there look like but I pulled up the link you posted and looked at it a few minutes. I didn't get into it greatly but it seems like some of the topo maps looks like you could back up water for less than 10 miles and get 100 feet of head and fairly short dams. For what you already have there I don't know, but I do know that there are a couple types of turbines that work good with low head and high flow. 
Hey, any free juice is better than none.

Well my garden is yelling at me, the sun is going down, I have finished my break and supper so I am gone.
Dennis


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

Ed Norman said:


> Maintenance? I toured Hoover Dam a while back, and the generators are still using the original bearings from the 1930s. A few tubes of grease, pull out a dead fish once in a while, and it's maintenance-free.
> 
> A rancher here has two small hydro plants from a spring. He says they are very easy to maintain and well worth the cost.


That may be true of generators, but what about the turbine where the actual water is flowing?


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

I want to say that I have enjoyed this thread. I feel like I am learning new things, ideas, etc.

One thing I like about this forum is that there are other people who think like I do, and wonder why we continue to let hydro-electric to pass us by unused.

Thing(s) I would love to learn:

Lets say someone with a major pile of money wanted to build a small hydro electric plant at the dam that I mentioned that is 12 miles from our house.

Lets assume that you did not want to sell your generated power to the major utilities at wholesale rates. Instead, you could sell electricity at retail to one of the many factories that use lots and lots of power. 

What would you do if their power needs exceeded what you could provide? 

What would you do with the excess power that you generated at night, or on the weekends when the factories shut down? Would you just have to succumb to selling at low wholesale rates to the major utilities? 

Selling at wholesale rates, especially on weekend nights, would basically make you at the mercy of the major utility, who would pay next to nothing for those very low demand nights/times.

I am not sure that a major utility would take kindly to someone stealing a high rate consumer of theirs. The major utility could make life difficult for you if they wanted.

Again, a fun topic. I am learning alot, and really enjoy this kind of stuff, as well as your company.

Wish I had the bucks to put into an investment of hydro like this.

Clove


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Explorer said:


> That may be true of generators, but what about the turbine where the actual water is flowing?


I dunno. They were all in one big lump of machinery and the guide said they had original bearings. The turbine and generator were in one unit so I can't answer. Head up to the dam and take the tour and report back. It's a good tour, and it is cooler in the dam.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Kevingr said:


> Back in the early 80's there was a company that was doing just that on the old dams here in MN. Not sure what happened to them, or even if they're still around, if they are you don't hear about it anymore. It seems to me like it would be a terriffic oportunity, but maybe there's more to it then I think.


Be interested in hearing more about that, can't remember that, & the '80 I should remember better... 

The Ford plant in St Paul MN which makes Ford Rangers has it's own electric plant from the hydro going past the plant. Unfortunately it is scheduled to be closed & turned into condos. There is some talk of getting hybred vehicles built there using 'green' energy source, but so far seems to just be posturing talk.

There were/are a lot of dams & waterfalls in the Twin Cities, all the grain mills were built there in the early years, powered off the river.

--->Paul


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Explorer said:


> That may be true of generators, but what about the turbine where the actual water is flowing?


You are right about that. I thought I said something about it but it slipped my mine somehow. Well I just looked and I did say something bit not much.
The huge turbines we worked with were about 10 feet in diameter. The only reason I can say that now is because there is usually one setting in the yard at the power house now too. 
They sent them to some shop somewhere and don't ask me where because that I don't remember now. 
They would weld them back out past the specks with hard facing rods and then machine them back down to spec. 
I would expect it took several 50# boxes of rods do do it because I saw some places you could just about stick your hand in that was washed out. 
But have to think of all the MW's that thing produced during the year that it was on line running 24/7's too. 
I was looking at the pictures of the350 KW, 28" pelton wheel on the link I was on and it looked like it was cast steel. They would probably allow you so much for trade in and just remelt the metal and repour a whole new wheel for that thing when it needed replaceing. 
Plus a pelton wheel is said to have a lot longer life span that the larger turbines without needing repairs. 
That is the first time I had ever seen a large pelton wheel. The only thing I had ever saw was the small 4" wheels that fit on delco alternators for really small projects. 
Don't you know that thing would have to be balanced to turn 3,600 RPM's. 
And by the way, that is how they get them to produce 60 hz electricity. The generator need to turn exactly 60 times per second. 
Well, it's time to go run the tiller some more, I think anyway. I am still sore from yesterday, LOL.

Dennis. 

PS: Wouldn't it be nice to have something like this that made money 24/7's all by it's little lonesome???


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## Azrael (Jun 2, 2008)

Is this the page you're talking about?
http://www.doradovista.com/DVPower2.html

Found it by googling '28 inch pelton wheel', top result. Talks about 350 KW generation too.

BTW, I'm Allen, long time lurker, first time poster!


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

I'm not sure how fast water turbines spin. Steam turbines run at 3600 RPM in this country to produce 60 Hz power. I would think water turbines run at either 1800 or 900 RPM and it might be a function of size and head. The ones I am most familiar with were on 300 MW generators in Brazil. By the way, the power turbine/generators at Hoover were all replaced a few years ago due to age and to upgrade to larger more efficient generators.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

Looked it up: http://pgre07.events.pennnet.com/fl/content.cfm?Navid=5448&Language=



> HOOVER DAM POWER FACTS
> The dam and powerplant is operated and maintained by the US Bureau of Reclamation. There are 17 main turbines in powerplant. The original turbines were all replaced during an upgrade program between 1986 and 1993. The plant has a nameplate capacity of 2,074,000 kilowatts. The power generation part of the plant was completed in 1961.There are fifteen 178000 HP, one 100000 HP, and one 86000 HP Francis-type vertical hydraulic turbines. There are thirteen 130000 kW, two 127 kW, one 61500 kW, and one 68500 kW generators. All machines are operated at 60 cycles. There are also two 2400 kW station-service units driven by Pelton water wheels. These provide electrical energy for lights and for operating cranes, pumps, motors, compressors, and other electrical equipment within the dam and powerplant.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2008)

Azrael said:


> BTW, I'm Allen, long time lurker, first time poster!


Welcome to the forum!


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Explorer said:


> Looked it up: http://pgre07.events.pennnet.com/fl/content.cfm?Navid=5448&Language=


It was either 1998 or 1999 when I toured the dam. That guide was lying.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

I took the tour in the early 70's, but don't remember much about it. I was surprised about the 1961 part. I thought they had put in some smaller turbines back in the 30's at the time it was built to pump water over to CA for their farms. My memory is getting dim or they are rewriting history.


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Azrael said:


> Is this the page you're talking about?
> http://www.doradovista.com/DVPower2.html
> 
> Found it by googling '28 inch pelton wheel', top result. Talks about 350 KW generation too.
> ...


Hi Allen, welcome to the board and thanks for the link. That's the site that I had but I couldn't get it posted to save my life.. The link isn't spelled the way it is on yours but whatever works, LOL. 

Thanks again and don't make yourself scearce. Join on in here. The more the merrier.
Dennis


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Everyone here should check out the link Allen posted. The calculator is an eye opener if you have any idea how much a CFS is. 
It also shows you how small, compared to the huge units the electric companies always use, really are.
The picture shows how small a turbine is required to produce 350 KW's of juice using a 4.125" pipe for flow.
What it doesn't tell you is that these turbines are desinged to be used with one, two, or 4 nozzles. 
I guess this one project only has enough water flow to use one nozzle considering they say he is going to send the excess juice to the grid for sale.
If he had enough flow for 4 nozzles this same turbine could produce 4 X's the power, or 1.4 Mw's of juice and sale all the excess.
Figureing 1 MW of juice the calculator says it would produce $438,000 dollars of electricity per yer. 
Now, does any one here think that turbine and a matching generator along with 1,200' of 12" plastic pipe would cost a half millon dollars????????? 
And that is just the juice it would make in one year.
Dennis


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Add in the permits & taxes you'll get dinged with, plus the feeder power lines & transformer you'll need to supply, & yup, it will cost you that much. The 3 year EPA study & special fish traps you'll have to add to make them happy....

Didn't visit the calculator, is that retail dollars or whole-sale dollars of electricity it's giving you? You won't be able to collect retail.....

Water flow goes pretty slow/low in winter months when the frost is 3-4 feet deep, can you keep the turbine spinning all year long, or will there be shutdowns?

Lot of 'little things' nibble away at the perfect picture.

I'm all for it, mind you. All for it. Think we should be doing it.

--->Paul


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Paul, I am not talking bout me or you doing it. Say for me, I am talikng about the city council , people we elected, in the City of Danville doing it. 
"THEY" have the budget to do it and "THEY" have ways around a lot of the red tape required to do so. 
How much do you think that 28" pelton wheel cost???? 
They could build one unit this year, cut the cost to the citizens of Danville 50% on what it produces, and still have enough nect year to build a second set up. 
It could mulitiply untill all the water they can use and still keep the river "alive" is used up. 

On top of that, right where the power house is, the dam could be removed and replaced with one that is about 2.5 to 3 times as high as that one. 

The water here in Danville could power every single home in the city if used right and could be done in a few years if they started with one 28" pelton wheel and put the saving toward growing it!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not one yelling for the gubbernuts to bail me out. I am just saying they have the money, OUR MONEY,, TO DO IT AND IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. 
I WOULD SAY HELL YES, RAISE THE TAX ANOTHER 1 %. IT IS ALREADY 5% NOW SO WHAT IS A PENNY GOING TO HURT IF IN THE LONG RUN THE ELCTRIC BILL COMES WAY DOWN. And it would if the bas---rds didn't cheat us out of it. 
Onew year of a penny more on the dollar could get it started and then it would snowball. 

JMHO
Dennis


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## Kevingr (Mar 10, 2006)

rambler said:


> Be interested in hearing more about that, can't remember that, & the '80 I should remember better...
> 
> The Ford plant in St Paul MN which makes Ford Rangers has it's own electric plant from the hydro going past the plant. Unfortunately it is scheduled to be closed & turned into condos. There is some talk of getting hybred vehicles built there using 'green' energy source, but so far seems to just be posturing talk.
> 
> ...


I was going to school at the Red Wing Energy Center (now closed) at the time. I was doing some research on a project using the resources at the Mpls Public Library in downtown Mpls. I found all the paper work on the company there. Not sure if it's available online by this time or not. I don't live in the cities anymore so I don't have the library system available to me.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Well, if anyone still cares, here are a few reasons why we are not utilizing more hydro-power in this nation. 

While not an expert on the subject, I have enjoyed learning the following:

A good part of our use of coal and nuclear is because of our mindset, old school thinking, and politics.

The other part is because of dollars and cents.

It is my understanding that most utilities work in their respective states under territorial agreements. So if a town is serviced by a single utility, that utility is either going to have to agree to buy the hydro power, or generate it themselves.

I also understand that because of this territorial agreement, a single individual or company cannot go into business just to sell electric to nearby homes and businesses. You can generate as much of it for yourself as you want, but you cannot sell it, even if you built power lines to a business across town that might want to buy it.

Even if you could generate electricity and sell it across town to a factory for instance, you would have to build poles and lines, which can be expensive. These lines are going to have be engineered for strength, sag in the line, wind shear, height, etc., and meet national code for the voltage and use they are designed. A PE is probably going to have to sign off on the design.

So, if an organization could afford to build the gen station, and a one mile line to a factory, given they could, the poles, wires, labor and engineering is going to cost a fortune. 

As well, a private company is going to have a difficult time obtaining easments to install poles and wires. Road easments are granted to PUBLIC utilities, not just any Joe Schmoe that wants to build a line. This means that you are going to have to obtain private easements on private property. This could increase costs, and decrease profits. It will also increase liability.

One avenue is to sell power on the open market, especially during peak usage times. The big problem here is that you have to have a way to get the power to what I believe is called major distribution lines. Too bad that major dist lines don't run anywhere close to each of the dams in the nation!!!! (Don't forget that these poles and wires, just to get close to the open market dist network are really, really, expensive!!!)

The major hinderance to selling on the open market is that the electricity has to be "stepped up" to 7800 volts via a transformer. Prices for these transformers cost OVER $1 MILLION as a starting point. They last forever and a day, or so I am told, but that is expensive!!!!!

Its too bad that we aren't using more hydo.

While this is probably some of the best energy to be found, it is disappointing to know that for the short term, it is generally cheaper to burn coal, with all of its negative points, than it is to generate with hydro.

I do think that the costs with big hydro show more value for the major players and utilities. And as consumers demand more green energy, and as the increasing costs to use coal or natural gas to fuel generators, we will see more hydro power come on line.

The major utilities know that the real money is made in the generation of power. When they can make hydro work...for what ever reason, we will see lots of it. 

Clove


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