# Freezer Made for Alt Energy vs Standard Freezer



## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

The freezers like Sundanzer are so expensive compared to ones I can buy at Lowe's or some similar place. I haven't done any comparison shopping for them really but saw the prices when I was shopping prices for my soon-to-be-chest fridge. Do the regular consumer freezers use much more power that make them unreasonable for solar? The sundanzer 5.8 cf freezer is $885 which doesn't include freight. It uses 340-600 watt hours/day. I can buy a similar sized freezer for $200 at Lowe's, just don't know the energy usage. Does anyone?


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## JAK (Oct 15, 2005)

Good question. I believe there is the good, the bad, and the ugly. How hot the room is and the heating coils makes a difference also, regardless of the fridge, but an ugly fridge gets uglier faster in an enclosed space. Also, deep freezers will use more than fridges, since they gain more heat, and have to work across a greater temperature difference. For off grid you would also want a DC motor, and one designed for more continuous operation at lower power rather than more intermittent operation at higher power. The other way to go would be to run it AC and only when the generator is running, and then rely on extra insulation and maybe blocks of ice to last until same time next day. Similarly, in an RV you might be able to only run your fridge when on the road by using a bigger fridge with extra insulation and half full of ice.

You could make your own big well insulated fridge using parts from a small but efficient fridge. This will allow you to build it into you kitchen cabinets or countertops. You could also locate the heat exchange coils and compressor, (and noise), in the basement underneath your kitchen, and maybe use the heat to preheat your hot water.

Here is how you could estimate you daily energy requirement:

Lets say 2'x2'x3' = 12 cf. and so surface square feet = 2x4+4x6=32 sqft
Lets say room temp = 80F and fridge temp = 30F and so deltaT = 50F.
Lets say it has 2" of insulation at R10, and we neglect opening and closing.
Heat Loss = 32 sqft x 24h/day x 50degF / R10 = 3840 BTU/day
COP depends on a lot of stuff, mostly temperature difference and refrigerant. 
Assuming COP = 3. Energy = 3840 BTU/day x 1Kwh/3412BTU / 3.0 = 375 watt-hours/day
If you use your cold water line to your hot water tank might improve your COP and you will be using the heat to preheat you hot water instead of overheating you kitchen. This matters more in summer than winter of course.

A poorly insulated oversized deep freezer set at its lowest temperature in a warm room and with a COP of only 1.5 might use 2000 watt-hours/day, or worse. You only know for sure if you measure it with one of those handy meters. Good thing to do even with an efficient fridge rated at 300 watt-hours/day. There might be something you can do to improve the situation, like raise the temperature setting or pull it out a bit from the wall or change the location.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

My next frig. will be a solar powered one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

SunDanzer Energy Efficient DC Refrigeration
No AC Inverter Needed !

DCR/DCF Series Battery-Powered Units

Remote home and cabin owners, are you aware that it takes ten 80 watt solar panels with their associated mounting brackets, wire, charge controller, combiner box, inverter, inverter cables, battery cables, fusing and a fairly large bank of deep cycle batteries to power a conventional 600 watt refrigerator !

Components needed to run a conventional 600 watt refrigerator


Components needed to run a SunDanzer High Efficiency Refrigerator

Ten 80 watt solar panels : $2895.00


One 80 watt solar panel : $289.50

Racks for ten solar panels : $444.00


Rack for one solar panel : $74.25

Xantrex C-60 charge controller : $163.00


15 feet of sunlight resistant wiring : $15.00

150 feet of sunlight resistant wire : $150.00


One 10 amp fuse : $5.00

Xantrex TCB-10 combiner box : $187.00


BZ240 charge controller : $59.00

Xantrex DR1512 inverter : $802.00


2 Trojan T105 batteries : $158.00

Xantrex 300 amp inverter fuse : $61.50


1 Xantrex BC1.5 2/0 battery interconnect : $14.76

Xantrex CD60DC circuit breaker : $31.98


Xantrex BC5-4/0 inverter cables : $86.10


7 Trojan T105 batteries : $474.00


6 Xantrex BC1.5 4/0 battery interconnects : $108.24


10 ten amp combiner box fuses : $10.00


Grand Total : $5,412.82 (conventional)


Grand Total : $615.51(sundanzer)

The above calculations lists what is needed to power a conventional refrigerator and a Sundanzer high efficiency refrigerator. The price does not include the cost of a refrigerator.

Save on system costs with SunDanzer battery-powered solar refrigerators and freezers. These highly efficient units with exceptionally low energy consumption require a smaller photovoltaic (PV) system for your refrigeration needs. SunDanzer units feature 4.33" (110 mm) of polyurethane insulation and coated steel cabinets. The brushless DC motor compressor operates on 12 or 24 VDC. A patented low-frost system reduces frost build-up for low maintenance.

SunDanzer chest-style refrigerators and freezers are easy to clean using the drain hole at the bottom of the unit. With thick insulation and a refrigeration system optimized for solar, SunDanzer refrigerators and freezers provide outstanding economical and reliable operation. SunDanzer cabinets are commercially produced by one of the world's leading appliance manufacturers.
DCR/DCF General Specifications

â¢ Voltage requirement: 12 or 24 VDC
â¢ Refrigerant: R-134a
â¢ Polyurethane insulation: 11 cm (4.33")
â¢ Cable length: 2m (6 ft.)

Runs on a single 80 Watt solar module in most climate !!!

Download Battery Operated PDF Specification Sheet

Side Note : We recently ordered a DCR225 refrigerator for our showroom. It arrived nicely crated with no dings or dents. Having only pictured this product in a brochure, we were was amazed at how nicely constructed and how large this unit was. After a simple unpacking, the unit was carried into our showroom.

After a two hour wait to make sure that the compressor oil had settled, we attached a 10 amp fuse and ring terminals to the power cables and then attached the unit to a 12 volt battery that was being charged by a 80 watt solar module.

The unit made a faint whirring sound which let us know that it was running. We walked away and began locking up for the day. Even though the instructions said that we should wait approximately 2 hours before loading it up with food, I decided to take a peek after only an hour. To my amazement the inside of this fridge felt like a freezer !

I hurried over to our service department and told our senior technician that he had to see this thing to believe it. He opened the fridge door and placed his hand against the side wall and could not believe it either.

We became concerned that SunDanzer had shipped us a freezer instead of a fridge so we went back to our loading area to look for the packing slip and discovered that there was no mistake, the unit was what we ordered, a refrigerator not a freezer. We decided that we should adjust the thermostat, so that we didn't wind up freezing the sodas that we had placed in our new fridge.

If you happen to be in the area, be sure to stop by and share an ice cold one (soda that is !) with us from this amazing machine, you wont believe it either. All from a single 80 watt solar panel ! 

Need refrigeration and don't want to mess with an inverter or batteries !!

Then the BFR series refrigerator is just what the doctor ordered !
BFR Series Battery-Free Solar Refrigerator

Using space age technology, SunDanzer also offers a revolutionary design for true "plug and play" operation eliminating the need for batteries and charge controllers. During cloudy weather, internal thermal storage keeps products cold for up to 7 days.

The BFR Series is designed for use in locations with at least 5 sun-hours per day. The highly efficient system, developed at NASA, uses a variable speed compressor and peak power tracking. For areas with less than 5 sun-hours per day, the DC Series is recommended.
Features for All SunDanzer Models:

â¢ Energy-Efficient
â¢ Automatic operation
â¢ Thick polyurethane insulation
â¢ Lockable lid
â¢ Interior light
â¢ Corrosion resistant coated steel exterior
â¢ Patented low-frost system
â¢ Easy to clean interior
â¢ Low maintenance

Download Battery Free PDF Specification Sheet

View PDF PV Sizing Chart For Residential Applications

View PDF PV Sizing Chart For Commercial Applications

Remote Homes Cabins Medical Clinics Missionaries Villages

Remote Stores Marine Applications Farms Traveling Vendors

DCR165 5.8 Cubic Ft. Fridge On Sale $899.00

DCR225 8 Cubic Ft. Fridge On Sale $999.00

DCF 5.8 Cubic Ft. Freezer On Sale $899.00

DCF 8 CU Ft. Freezer On Sale $999.00

Please call for price on battery-less units !

1-888-647-6527
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ive seen this refer in person at www.partsonsale.com
in their showroom,running.It is truly AWESOME!

Like most things solar,I dont care if its a thousand bucks,if it runs on 2 panels,thats the system for me.
I will pay now for free power in retirement.

I work on the theory of 30,000 worth of solar is one new car.I can pass on one new car for a solar lifestyle.

BTW,in the 70s my cousin hippies had a friend in the desert who put a propane frig. on the porch.With a curved prism(something like that,a rube goldberg production they said) he put concentrated sunlight to the area where the flame used to be.Cousins swear it ran excellent.

Now if crazy dope smoking hippies pulled this off....

BooBoo


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Homepower is using conventional high efficiency friges,but they also have LOTS of panels.

If you have enough panels,a conventional refer is ok,in the high efficiency models.

BooBoo


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## JAK (Oct 15, 2005)

I think there is still a lot to be said though for making your own appliances, especially if you are on solar power. People with wind power can make their own wind turbines, and folk with generators can even make their own generators, but on solar power you really can't make your own solar modules, so you might as well make your own appliances. I think a fridge would be one of the easiers jobs, using just parts from a small conventional fridge and just increasing the size and insulation and changing the motor to DC, but keeping it as small as possible for more continuous operation.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Tango, Take a tape measure with you and go back and look at those $200 buck freezers.
How thick are the side walls ... ?
How thick is the top ... ?

---------hint 1 1/2 to 2" (maybe)

I've had a Conserve for several years (its just like the Sundanzer 4+" insulation) I'm shure happy with its efficency. 

If you get the cheaper (insulated) unit you will end up paying the difference in increased energy usage over the years.

Sundanzer-------good stuff.


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## JAK (Oct 15, 2005)

Wouldn't it be nice if you could just add 2-4" of insulation on the inside or the outside of a $200 buck freezer? Still, it is good to see there are people making better fridges and freezers. Here is a website with lots of comparative technical information and prices:

http://www.backwoodssolar.com/Catalogpages2/refriger2.htm

Sundanzer 5.8 Cu. Ft. Refridge 130-250 watt-hours/day on 12vDC $885
Sundanzer 5.8 Cu. Ft. Freezer 406-672 watt-hours/day on 12vDC $885
Sundanzer 8.0 Cu. Ft. Refridge 144-312 watt-hours/day on 12vDC $985
Sundanzer 8.0 Cu. Ft. Freezer 540-816 watt-hours/day on 12vDC $985

CROSLEY 12.0 Cu. Ft. Freezer 450-550 watt-hours/day on 120AC $590

SUNFROST 16 Cu. Ft. Refridge 390-650 watt-hours/day on 12vDC $2,659
SUNFROST 16 Cu. Ft. Combine 800-1066 watt-hours/day on 12vDC $2,950
SUNFROST 16 Cu. Ft. Freezer 1300-1700 watt-hours/day on 12vDC $2,980
Available in 120vAC for $70-$140 cheaper. 
You might be able to just buy the parts and build your own.

NOVAKOOL various model 12vDC or 24vDC different choices of insulation


*They all seem to use the same Danfoss compressors. 
Here is a source:*
http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Major_Components/compressors/Danfoss/danfoss.asp


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Thanks for the advice. JAK, I'm building impaired and can almost guarantee you I'll spend a mini-fortune and end up with nothing. I was thinking the Crosley freezer, which is rated by backwoods solar for my next freezer until I saw how cheap the ones at Lowe's were. They don't have the same insulation though. About half of it or less. 

Also just read the Crosley freezer needs a 1000 watt inverter, so adding a fridge, which is my next addition, would probably require a larger inverter as well (I have 600 watt inverter right now). DC sounds better in that regard. I appreciate the ideas and discussion. I'm going to add a chest fridge first and from reading I figured I could buy one at Lowe's then add the thermostat so I figured if I could buy one at Lowe's to use as a fridge, why not buy another one at Lowe's to use as it was meant to be used: a freezer? Now I know. 

Sundanzer is excellent but the initial price tag is steeper than everything else but the Sunfrost, which I dn't want because it is not asenergy efficient as the chest types. As it stands, just to add a fridge, I need to add a 130 watt panel and a tracking mount, and an inverter. My current mount is filled so as long as I need another one, I wanted a tracker. Too bad Crosley isn't DC.

To complicate andconfuse, I wouldneed another inverter anyway cause mine doesn't even run my microwave  sigh, so many needs so little money.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I communicate with a big group of installers and the consenses is to encourage our customers rather than get a tracker to get another PV pannel.
Trackers work but are pricey.
The Sundanzer PV powered is a great idea, but how many cloudy days in a row do you get ... ?
Ya need a battery back up.

Bite the bullet and spend for the good stuff.
You Will Be Glad You Did


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Jim-mi said:


> I communicate with a big group of installers and the consenses is to encourage our customers rather than get a tracker to get another PV pannel.
> Trackers work but are pricey.
> The Sundanzer PV powered is a great idea, but how many cloudy days in a row do you get ... ?
> Ya need a battery back up.
> ...


Thank you Jim-mi that is defintiely worth thinking about and sounds more attractiove than what I was thinking about ealrier. I can get another regular mount plus an extra 130 watt panel (for a total of five panels 625 watts total by Kyocera) for what one tracker would cost. I do have a battery bank right now but it is minimal for just my cordless tools, laptop and rechargeable lanterns. I would need additional batteries for a fridge- maybe two more. I was dreading going into last winter because of the overcast days everyone told me about but it wasn't too bad. We never ran out of power with our three 12v batteries and our 365 watts of panels. I've gone by backwoods solars calculation for our area and figure we will eventually need about 1k of panels for our complete household. Looks like maybe the sundanzer is worth the extra bucks up front. I'm glad I have all of you to discuss this with. Thank you !!  :baby04:


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## Ramblin Wreck (Jun 10, 2005)

If God, the budget, and time permits, I plan to follow the "Boo" path outlined above and install a DC powered freezer (and a few DC lights) in a barn I want to build this year. With the freezer, I could always make ice and maintain some semblance of cold storage in the house. Water pumping would be next on my wish list...but I can always draw it from a well, and have done so many times before.

The simplicity and system cost of the DC systems is very appealing...long term.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Hi Marcia, We have both a big propane chest freezer and a regular AC consumer type chest freezer. We got the propane one before we had adequate solar power but needed another but without the huge cost of the propane one. They are both outside in an uninsulated shed and we had planned to eat the electric one down and consolidate so only the gas one ran in the summer heat. It never quite worked out that way but the electric one ran just fine during the sunny summers. And the batteries get fully charged each day too by the panels.


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## JAK (Oct 15, 2005)

I wonder how much ice is worth today, how cheap it could be made, or stored, or shipped? If you were to fill up your basement with snow or ice in the winter, how long would it last into the summer?

If you could make ice at a COP of 1.44 then you could make ice for 100 BTU/lb, and you would gain 244 BTU/lb of heat doing it, which would be good for 2 pounds of hot water at 154degF. So if you made 100 gallons per day of hot water you would be making 500 pounds of ice per day, and after 100 days you would have 25 TONS having produced and used 50 TONS of hot water. You would have used 5,000,000 BTU, or about 1500 Kwh, or about $100 ay 6.7 cents per Kwh. Splitting this price at $25 for 25 TONS of ice, and $75 for 100 days of hot water, or 3/4 cents per gallon.

25 TONS of ice would fill a 12'x12' room 6' high. Cost $25, plus the space.
Should be able to keep you pretty cool, part of the summer anyways.


"The sweltering inhabitants of Charleston and New Orleans, of Madras and Bombay and Calcutta, drink at my well. . . . The pure Walden water is mingled with the sacred water of the Ganges."
- Henry David Thoreau


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

JAK, You do come up with some wild figures........lol
yer gonna wear out the poor freezer makin all that ice.

Tango, since you mentioned Backwoods (good guys) check out (in the catologe) the Trojan T-105 batterys.
A pair of these (to make 12v) would make a good (price dictated) small battery bank.
These true deep cycle bats are a big step above 12v *marine* bats.
There are other brands of very similar *golf cart* size batterys that will do as well. Thing to do is try to find a local supplier of bats so as to not get involved with shipping of heavy bats.


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Ramblin Wreck said:


> If God, the budget, and time permits, I plan to follow the "Boo" path outlined above and install a DC powered freezer (and a few DC lights) in a barn I want to build this year. With the freezer, I could always make ice and maintain some semblance of cold storage in the house. Water pumping would be next on my wish list...but I can always draw it from a well, and have done so many times before.
> 
> The simplicity and system cost of the DC systems is very appealing...long term.


DITTO
Exactly what I was thinking, Thanks Booboo For awhile I toyed with the idea of a propane freezer but with the cost of propane now I would be better off just keeping my 15 year old freezer and paying for electric. I did not realize just how efficient the sundanzer was and it is neat that I would not need an inverter for one and only one solar panel. Now how much is sundanzer paying you?


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> Hi Marcia, We have both a big propane chest freezer and a regular AC consumer type chest freezer. We got the propane one before we had adequate solar power but needed another but without the huge cost of the propane one. They are both outside in an uninsulated shed and we had planned to eat the electric one down and consolidate so only the gas one ran in the summer heat. It never quite worked out that way but the electric one ran just fine during the sunny summers. And the batteries get fully charged each day too by the panels.



Thanks Lisa. I've looked at the propane ones too (and propane fridges) but they cost too much to operate year-round. My freezer will be outside in the carport and might run just fine in the summer- but now I
m thinking of the cost of the inverter too  ain't it always something?


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Jim-mi said:


> Tango, since you mentioned Backwoods (good guys) check out (in the catologe) the Trojan T-105 batterys.
> A pair of these (to make 12v) would make a good (price dictated) small battery bank.
> These true deep cycle bats are a big step above 12v *marine* bats.
> There are other brands of very similar *golf cart* size batterys that will do as well. Thing to do is try to find a local supplier of bats so as to not get involved with shipping of heavy bats.


Yes, I've stared at the battery page  they were included in the price of my first order from them but I eliminated them when I learned I had to travel at least six hours to go get them when I was still in Florida. I had them sit on my order until I moved to TN and around here they don't have any distributors at all. Where else could I look for those batteries? It would be for future reference btw. No way can I indulge in those batteries when so many other things need doing- but tis nice to dream


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## Allan Mistler (Jun 1, 2004)

Wow... I don't think of myself as an expert metalworker but after seeing the prices you folks are quoting for trackers I'm feeling pretty good about my homemade one. Especially since it cost me less than $100!! The tracking mechanism is an old satellite dish actuator assembly (free) driven by an LED3X sun tracking driver board from www.Redrok.com ($35). The rack I welded together from a 96" length of 2 x 3 x 3/16 steel tubing ($38) and four 54" lengths of 1-5/8" electrical Unistrut ($24).








The telephone pole was also free so despite the fact that everything looks wooded and obstructed, I don't get any shadows on the panels from sunrise to sunset. I'm adding another pole and tracker assembly about 16' to the side of this one and will be using the two poles as structural members for a shelter for my tractor. Currently using a tarpaulin and need something more permanent anyway, so this should enhance the wind bearing ability of such large panel areas. (4 - Kyocera 125's)
I hope Tango doesn't get upset by the apparent thread drift, but I felt that not having upwards of $600 to spend on a tracking rack shouldn't prevent someone from having both the Tracker and an extra $500 to put towards an energy efficient refrigerator.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

That looks neat Allan.....
But when Tango said "building impaired" that tells me something. An awful lot of folks need "plug and play" stuff, and not everybody has the where with all to piece together the unit that you have.

Tango, not knowing where abouts that you are its not easy to direct you to a bat supply.
Any golf courses around---you would ask about who maintains the golf carts.......(bats)
I'm told that Sams club carries Trojan bats (I've never been in a sams club store)
Ask at a auto supply store in a nearby town about ordering *golf cart* bats.


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## patarini (Nov 19, 2004)

There is a thread somewhere here about taking a chest freezer adding a beer thermostat (available at wine n beer making places) And using that as a fridge/freezer -- supposed to work as good as the expensive ones but cheeper!
here is the link
http://www.wind-sun.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=62d6c5699db7d6c836ff712c8f6dd7ef&topic=1073.0
also a group on yahoo dedicated to alternative styles of fridge/freezers


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Well Patrini not quite.
By using that extra control all your doing is running the compressor less to get the 34+f inner temp rather than +5f.

There is no substitute for good insulation. The likes of the Sundanzer with 4+ inches versus the 1 1/2 inches of *other* units...........well its not even an issue.

Question is; Why don't the *other* makers put in much more insulation . ?
answer ... it costs more
and electricity is *cheap*............ya shure
and most of the "peoples" have not yet wakened up about efficiency............thats a shame.


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Can you buy these quality freezers used or reconditioned any place? Also how long do they run with out problems? is their a rating on them on the web as far as which have more problems e.c.t.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

jnap........good question (buying used)

My first thought was --Hey my Conserve is running so well that I have No intention of wanting to change it.
And I'll bet ya a buck that thats the feeling of most of the folks who have these super efficient units.
With all the insulation in these things (4+ inches) the compressor runs less so it *should* last a good while.
Very seldom do I see a unit for sale. But they usually say something like "Wife wants a bigger unit"

Ask me the same question in 10 years............lol


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Allan Mistler said:


> I hope Tango doesn't get upset by the apparent thread drift, but I felt that not having upwards of $600 to spend on a tracking rack shouldn't prevent someone from having both the Tracker and an extra $500 to put towards an energy efficient refrigerator.


I don't mind the drift and I surely admire your ability. I wasn't kidding when I said I am building impaired. I feel very fortunate to have installed my array and system on my own. It was my first time doing anything like that and I have now installed it twice(moved it to the house when it was built). I am confident enough to plan on doing the wiring myself but electricity and I seem to have a [well grounded] connection. I can't say that about building things. Sometimes I look at th eprice tags of solar or alt energy items and feel a bit disheartened. The mount I currently have is $290- it holds three Kyocera 120- 130's. That's almost three times what you have in a tracker- but that is life and it really ain't so bad out here. In fact it is gorgeous


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Just wanted to peek back into this thread and say I've decided to go with the small sundanzer 5.8 cf fridge. I am very happy with the information provided and available on this forum. Thank you for all the help and especially thank you to Jim-mi! :baby04:


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Ahhh gee golly 

I hope that many others reading this thread will stop and consider the many benifits of getting good efficient equipment.
One problem this country has is the selling job the Madison Ave gang has done on the public........ie refridgerators "Bigger Is More Better"......The 30 cubic foot monsters with his and her icecube makers. And the utilitys love ya cause yer spinnin the meter..............Energy Hogs

Tango I'm shure your gonna really like your choice. May be after a bit you could put some thoughts about the SunDanzer on here.


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

This thread will be the reason I get an efficient freezer to run on solar, I had no idea they could run off just one panel. I was planing on Propane before I read this thread.


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## JAK (Oct 15, 2005)

Is it possible to run them without a battery, or at least some way to set the temperature lower by day to avoid battery losses? Perhaps some logic that sets a lower temperature when the batteries are charging and a higher temperature when the batteries are discharging? Similar logic with water pumps maybe, or anything that comes on automatically, might keep things from being on at the same time or running when maybe they shouldn't.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I haven't had any first hand with the PV only unit. But I shure wouldn't want my icecream to get mushy soft because of a couple-- three days of overcast weather. No sir ee.

And by the same token if you are using a dedicated PV pannel to freezer (fridge) only-------you are then wasting the PV pannels out put when the thermostat shuts down the compressor.
Better to feed the PV into a bat bank and use from that........
and you'll keep the icecream yummy........


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Where is the cheapest or best place to get solar panels and the equipment mightybooboo mentioned for a sundanzer in your opinions? I guess batteries would be better purchased locally do to the weight.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

I've used backwoods solar for everything, including my Aquastar tankless water heater, 3 panels thus far, a mount, two controllers (my current one is a TriStar 60), and a Samlex 600 True Sine Wave inverter. They have helped a lot with technical advice prior to sale and support afterward. I'll be getting the sundanzer and extra panels from them in June when I have the money complete. Only thing I didn't get from them is my Premier gas stove. They have it in their catalog but the price was a little higher than Lowe's special ordered and it was easier to bring home from Lowe's too. I haven't compared their prices with anyone except Gaiam, who sent me a catalog out of the blue and the prices are comparable. But the support they give, imo, would be worth paying a little extra, if they were higher than others. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can shop the baragin basements but I like the idea that I can just call them up and they'll be honest about my expectations and really help me out.


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

I will definitely need support as I have never done anything like that, I would not even consider it unless I knew someone in the area that could come help me put it all together when it's time. I have my gifts but techno stuff and following schemtics is not one of them.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Yes Backwoods---- www.backwoodssolar.com --- does and has had a Very Good reputation. Steve W sold the business to David K from AEE and he has maintained the integrity of the business.
I would go with great caution on some/most of the "internet dealers"...................buyer beware......backup??????
Dealing with Backwoods, you have real people to turn to if there is a problem with any equipment.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

This months downloadable mag at www.homepower.com

Has 2 good refer articles in it,be sure to download this months free download.

BooBoo


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Thanks mightybooboo I would not have known that.


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## Hip_Shot_Hanna (Apr 2, 2005)

We purchased a 17 cubic foot Frigidaire freezer from our local appliance company.

It is an upright commercial model and uses less than 600 KW hours per year, or around 1630 watts per day. 

However, where Sundanzer's model costs nearly 3,000 dollars, ours was $699 on sale, brand new. No delivery costs either.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I really feel the need to correct some miss information here.

Just today I got abrand new catalog from one of the distrubitors that I deal with.

These are retail prices
SunDanzer 5.8 cu ft fridge.............$949
" 8cu ft fridge...............$1049
" 5.8 cu ft. freezer..........$949
" 8 cu ft freezer............$1049


As you can see thats a far cry from $3000

And it still is a fact that any of the SunDanzer units will use far less energy than any frididaire made.

Please don't post prices you don't know about.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Jim-mi said:


> Yes Backwoods---- www.backwoodssolar.com --- does and has had a Very Good reputation. Steve W sold the business to David K from AEE and he has maintained the integrity of the business.
> I would go with great caution on some/most of the "internet dealers"...................buyer beware......backup??????
> Dealing with Backwoods, you have real people to turn to if there is a problem with any equipment.


Let me vouch for www.partsonsale.com

They are a fine outfit.Ive bought from em and been to the showroom,great folks,buy with confidence.

BooBoo


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## Hip_Shot_Hanna (Apr 2, 2005)

Jim-mi said:


> I really feel the need to correct some miss information here.
> 
> Just today I got abrand new catalog from one of the distrubitors that I deal with.
> 
> ...


Hi Jim -Mi - I was referring to THIS post, see below in quotes


JAK said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if you could just add 2-4" of insulation on the inside or the outside of a $200 buck freezer? Still, it is good to see there are people making better fridges and freezers. Here is a website with lots of comparative technical information and prices:
> 
> http://www.backwoodssolar.com/Catalogpages2/refriger2.htm
> 
> ...


I have added the BOLD content in the quote. This is what I was referring to. As you can see, the Sunfrost is not quite as large as my Frigidaire but uses comparable energy. 1.3 - 1.7 KW per day vs mine at 1.6. 

I do stand corrected, I used the wrong brand name. However, I will point out your information about the Sundanzer shows that it is less than half the size of the Frigidaire as well - and if it were twice the size it is, it might use twice the energy, and be comparable to the Frigidaire. Also.. I was incorrect about the price. You are right. The Sundanzer is only $1,000 for that small model. I still paid only $699 for mine. 

Of course, one reason my Frigidaire uses approx the same energy as the Sunfrost is because I bought a manual defrost, and not an automatic defrost.

I didn't buy the Frigidaire because it was a Frigidaire. I bought it because I had researched all this information, and it was nearly as energy efficient as the models above, but much less expensive in outlay.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Hip Shot thanks for that response.
I've known Larry S for a while and when I ask about his (Sunfrost) prices his answer is a srug of the shoulders and saying that they are all hand built.
You really need to give Sunfrost Big credit for starting the super insulation thing. All these other units are off shoots from Larry S's radical idea of --golly gee--super insulation.


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## Hip_Shot_Hanna (Apr 2, 2005)

Tango said:


> The freezers like Sundanzer are so expensive compared to ones I can buy at Lowe's or some similar place. I haven't done any comparison shopping for them really but saw the prices when I was shopping prices for my soon-to-be-chest fridge. Do the regular consumer freezers use much more power that make them unreasonable for solar? The sundanzer 5.8 cf freezer is $885 which doesn't include freight. It uses 340-600 watt hours/day. I can buy a similar sized freezer for $200 at Lowe's, just don't know the energy usage. Does anyone?


Jim-Mi,

I have no difficulty with giving credit for the idea of super insulation for freezers and so on. In fact, I think insulation is a good idea for many things, and we do this ourselves whenever possible.

I was merely responding to the original question posed at the beginning of this thread with some information I thought might be useful to the poster, not dissing other brands.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Jim-mi said:


> Yes Backwoods---- www.backwoodssolar.com --- does and has had a Very Good reputation. Steve W sold the business to David K from AEE and he has maintained the integrity of the business.
> I would go with great caution on some/most of the "internet dealers"...................buyer beware......backup??????
> Dealing with Backwoods, you have real people to turn to if there is a problem with any equipment.



We live near Backwoods Solar and they are great people but we've found that their prices are much higher than other solar providers. They are great when you are starting out or if you have no experience in solar but you can get almost everything they sell much cheaper elsewhere. One merchant we deal a lot with is Northern Arizona Wind and Sun. Their prices are far better. Our new inverter is priced at about $2200.00 at BS and it was $1495 at Northern AZ.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Thanks for the store name Lisa. You saved me $210 on my next two panels  Now does anyone know where I can purchase the Sundanzer 5.8cf fridge for under $885?


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Tango said:


> Thanks for the store name Lisa. You saved me $210 on my next two panels  Now does anyone know where I can purchase the Sundanzer 5.8cf fridge for under $885?


http://www.survivalunlimited.com/sundanzer.htm
810.00 here,are you near them?

SURVIVAL UNLIMITED
235 N. Airline Hwy
Gonzales, La. 70737


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

They are between Baton Rouge and New Orleans and I am at the border of TN with AL close to MS. The drive is doable if gas stays steady and their freight charges are high. I'll call them this morning and find out if the fridges are drop shipped or if they are in stock and about shipping. Thank you boo! :baby04: Just 3 more weeks before my Sundanzer and two extra panels!!!! :dance: :hobbyhors


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Tango said:


> They are between Baton Rouge and New Orleans and I am at the border of TN with AL close to MS. The drive is doable if gas stays steady and their freight charges are high. I'll call them this morning and find out if the fridges are drop shipped or if they are in stock and about shipping. Thank you boo! :baby04: Just 3 more weeks before my Sundanzer and two extra panels!!!! :dance: :hobbyhors


Thats sooooo cool Tango,cant wait for your living with it reports.

BooBoo


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Tango check your/my pm


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## squerly (Sep 27, 2014)

Tango said:


> They are between Baton Rouge and New Orleans and I am at the border of TN with AL close to MS. The drive is doable if gas stays steady and their freight charges are high. I'll call them this morning and find out if the fridges are drop shipped or if they are in stock and about shipping. Thank you boo! :baby04: Just 3 more weeks before my Sundanzer and two extra panels!!!! :dance: :hobbyhors


I'm getting ready to purchase the Sundanzer DCF390 and was curious just how well your Sundanzer held up over the last 7-8 years?


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

No I am not as pretty as Tango . . lol . . couldn't help but not reply. . . .
Didn't realize --until I read this thread-- that my SunDanzer is going as strong as the day after I powered it up 12-or what ever... years ago....

Says bunches for buying quality equipment..........


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## squerly (Sep 27, 2014)

Tango said:


> They are between Baton Rouge and New Orleans and I am at the border of TN with AL close to MS. The drive is doable if gas stays steady and their freight charges are high. I'll call them this morning and find out if the fridges are drop shipped or if they are in stock and about shipping. Thank you boo! :baby04: Just 3 more weeks before my Sundanzer and two extra panels!!!! :dance: :hobbyhors





Jim-mi said:


> No I am not as pretty as Tango . . lol . . couldn't help but not reply. . . .
> Didn't realize --until I read this thread-- that my SunDanzer is going as strong as the day after I powered it up 12-or what ever... years ago....
> 
> Says bunches for buying quality equipment..........


Thank you Jim-mi!


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## gpforet (Dec 24, 2013)

I just went thru this debate and ended up buying a Danby 8.2cf energy star which uses right at 800w/daily as measured by a kill-a-watt. The energy star rating claims right at 900w/day. Since this is 115vac I figure about 15% loss for solar/battery/inverter conversion meaning about 1050w/day. This freezer was $404.00+tax. Granted, you could probably run the Sundanzer without the battery bank but even so, I couldn't justify the additional cost of the Sundanzer.



Tango said:


> The freezers like Sundanzer are so expensive compared to ones I can buy at Lowe's or some similar place. I haven't done any comparison shopping for them really but saw the prices when I was shopping prices for my soon-to-be-chest fridge. Do the regular consumer freezers use much more power that make them unreasonable for solar? The sundanzer 5.8 cf freezer is $885 which doesn't include freight. It uses 340-600 watt hours/day. I can buy a similar sized freezer for $200 at Lowe's, just don't know the energy usage. Does anyone?


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