# If this doesn't scare the prepping pants off



## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

of you, nothing will.

We really are on the verge of total collapse. It almost happened already.

For those who can, watch the video.  It's more revealing than just the transcript. You need to hear the tone of voice to get the real impact. Somehow, words on a screen just doesn't do it.

If you haven't done so already, the time to start your survival networking options is now. None of us will get through this in a vacuum.


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

I bet he got in trouble after that interview. But then again, maybe the PTB want people to know, to be afraid, and that way push whatever agenda they (TPTB) want to push through.


.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

He's a slick one I'll give him that. Not many politicians are well polished enough to respond directly to such a question without evasion tactics.:lookout:

My two thoughts are:

1. Hard to know what the real truth is because it has been skirted so many times and in so many ways. Although I tend to expect bad economic times I also am greatly suspicious of fear mongering that may stampede the herd in a planned direction......sort of controlled chaos as a part of a master plan.

2. If he in fact is correct and telling the actual truth (not a variation of) what they propose doesn't sound like it will help.....a theme a few here have tried to point out. It sounds like trying to stop the titanic. I imagine IF we don't see some desperate times it will be a pretty "exciting" ride and close call.


:shrug:


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

uyk7 said:


> I bet he got in trouble after that interview. But then again, maybe the PTB want people to know, to be afraid, and that way push whatever agenda they (TPTB) want to push through.
> 
> 
> .


He sounds awfully sincere for someone presenting a message not based in reality. I'm not detecting any intent to deceive there.

TPTB have been pushing their agenda, as it's so wrapped up in our daily lives that yanking it out from under us without incremental change and adjustment would result in worldwide chaos.

As he said, "Our economic and political system," meaning his job and his colleagues would be wiped out in short order.

It may still happen. I'm hoping they can pull it off, and then we can move to make changes in a sane manner, not the other way around.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

I disagree with a point in the article saying that they want to get this right so they are waiting another day for Geithner to announce...The reason that Geithner postponed the speech is because the rest of the TARP (350 Billion) is obviously not enough.. He is now going to ask for an additional *1.3 trillion* money for the TARP.. this will be on top of the 800+ Billion stimulus... they did not want that to come out before they forced through the stimulus package today. :nono:


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

And I'm the guy who is full of doom news!!!!
Sheesh, that is real scary stuff.
Just so you all know. Kanjorski isn't what you would call an outsider in the House. He is more of a toe the line type of guy.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Darn it. this computer doesn't have sound, so I'm not going to hear it until later today.

Can someone give a brief of what he said since the link is a video.
There may be others without the sound card right now.

Thanks, Angie


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## Wildwood (Jul 2, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> Darn it. this computer doesn't have sound, so I'm not going to hear it until later today.
> 
> Can someone give a brief of what he said since the link is a video.
> There may be others without the sound card right now.
> ...


I'm in the same boat and enquiring minds want to know .


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

AngieM2 said:


> Darn it. this computer doesn't have sound, so I'm not going to hear it until later today.
> 
> Can someone give a brief of what he said since the link is a video.
> There may be others without the sound card right now.
> ...


Here it is... You should make a point to listen to it tho.

 It was about September 15th [sic]. â¦ On Thursday at about 11 oâclock in the morning the Federal Reserve noticed a tremendous drawdown of, uh, money market accounts in the United States to the tune of $550-billion was being drawn out in in a matter of an hour or two.

The Treasury opened up its window to help, and pumped in $105-billion into the system, and quickly realized it could not stem the tide. We were having an electronic run on the banks. They decided to close down the operation, to close down the money accounts. â¦ If they had not done that, in their estimation, by 2 PM that afternoon $5.5-trillion would have been withdrawn and would have collapsed the U.S. economy and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed.

We talked at that time about what would have happened. It would have been the end of our economic and our political system as we know it.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

I'm still trying to figure out the what's and wherefore's of this, but I gotta say, I like that Tyler Durden's (Fight Club) blog. He even uses phrases from the movie sprinkled in the posts. Wonder who it really is?


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

You could tell something was seriously wrong (more than was being indicated to us) when Bush called the world economic leaders for a meeting a couple days later. The looks on their faces as they were leaving the meeting told the story.

You gotta wonder what exactly prompted the run? Who was drawing down the funds? Was it a plot? Was it just panic?


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

I also think that he seemed sincere. 

Most of Big Financial is a rotting, insolvent corpse. The "toxic assets" on their books are in the $trillions. They do not have value as in nobody would buy them at any price. That is just the ARMs right now. 

Coming this spring we will start to see a bloom of bad commercial paper, Alt-A mortgages, and a later crop of option ARMs.

This will all be exacerbated by the economic freefall.

The we will have credit cards and student loans and other unsecured debt in default.

What the Treasury and Fed are attempting to do is 
1. stop the failure of the financial system, and 
2. failing that, soften the crash.

I don't see how we stop it. Not enough money in the world to buy up the paper.


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## Old_Grey_Mare (Feb 18, 2006)

And don't forget all the commercial real estate loans that are on the verge of going bad. Think about malls, financial offices, etc. that are going belly up. How long are they going to be able to keep up the payments.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I remember hearing about this situation back when it happened. I went out and doubled my food preps, home building supplies cache, maintenance materials, doubled my firearms acquistions, acquired extra lifetimes worth of ammunition, and in general stopped putting off purchases for stuff I might want or need in the future, and got it in my possession asap.

The World As Most People Know It came minutes away from ending. We're dealing with this near death experience now, trying to recover. We almost had perfect soft major-shtf... Sure beats a nuke or two...

If we learn anything from the roots of this disaster, it should be 'feel good' policies of home ownership for everyone is just that, a feel good dream.

Everyone who gambled and lost, should lose everything... and let the rest of us keep going along without having to bail them out. Let them live at my standard of living.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2009)

If it's not the sudden death of the banking system it's the surprise nuclear detonation. If it's not that then it's the killshot solar flare from the Sun. If not that it's the undetected asteroid minutes from impact.

Life as we know it might come to a sudden end any day now. Or might go on changing only slowly for years and years. 

Prep like it's all going to blow sky high any moment then get on with living a life worth living. Living in a bunker is no life at all. Living like nothing bad can ever happen is not conducive to a long-term existence. Get prepped, stay prepped, then get on with your life.

.....Alan.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

A.T. Hagan said:


> If it's not the sudden death of the banking system it's the surprise nuclear detonation. If it's not that then it's the killshot solar flare from the Sun. If not that it's the undetected asteroid minutes from impact.
> 
> Life as we know it might come to a sudden end any day now. Or might go on changing only slowly for years and years.
> 
> ...



Oh, stop it Alan.
Your being a kill doom!!!
Or a stick in the fan!!!


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## Razorback21 (May 13, 2003)

I have concerns about the upcoming treasury auction. The largest one week auction combined with China and Saudi Arabia not participating. It just doesn't bode well. I can see Treasuries not selling to possibly be systemic risk as well. I'm sure the Government will have some type of spin on why they all didn't sell.


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## Wildwood (Jul 2, 2007)

stanb999 said:


> Here it is... You should make a point to listen to it tho.
> 
> It was about September 15th [sic]. â¦ On Thursday at about 11 oâclock in the morning the Federal Reserve noticed a tremendous drawdown of, uh, money market accounts in the United States to the tune of $550-billion was being drawn out in in a matter of an hour or two.
> 
> ...



Stan thanks for the info. I did go ahead and listen when I could.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I've heard Kanjorski on a couple of cable news programs. In both cases, he came across as brutally frank and honest. In fact, the news people interviewing him seemed taken back by his straight talk. 

His explanation of the crisis makes it clear why the government had to act so quickly. But like someone else asked, who did it? Was it hedge funds or was it a foreign government? I can only think of 3 or 4 countries that have enough wealth to do it. Was it an act of war? Was it done to manipulate the election? Remember that McCain had pulled even just before this happened.

As usual, the government is keeping us in the dark. And since Bush is no longer in office, the media doesn't seem to be publishing any "leaked" information. So neither the government nor the press are telling us what is really going on.

I'm usually not a conspiracy nut, but in this case, I believe there is more going on than they are telling us.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

MoonRiver said:


> I've heard Kanjorski on a couple of cable news programs. In both cases, he came across as brutally frank and honest. In fact, the news people interviewing him seemed taken back by his straight talk.
> 
> His explanation of the crisis makes it clear why the government had to act so quickly. But like someone else asked, who did it? Was it hedge funds or was it a foreign government? I can only think of 3 or 4 countries that have enough wealth to do it. Was it an act of war? Was it done to manipulate the election? Remember that McCain had pulled even just before this happened.
> 
> ...


All very good questions that deserve and answer. And why is it the msm hasn't covered the details he's presented here?

<reached for tin foil>


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## DUlrich (Dec 31, 2008)

Yikes! We are more prepared than average here, but certainly nothing to write about on this forum. Well, maybe it will be enough to convince the parents that they should consider preparation for human disasters a lot more seriously.

At least news like this is a great motivator for all of us who want to be as ready as we can for the end...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Was it an act of war? Was it done to manipulate the election?


I think it was both of those things. The stage was being set to put BO in place, in preperation for the next stage. 
And he seems to be well on the way to finishing us off if he gets his way.

Also, if we KNOW about all this, think about how much is happening that we DON'T know about, but is as much, or even more ominus


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I think it was both of those things. The stage was being set to put BO in place, in preperation for the next stage.
> And he seems to be well on the way to finishing us off if he gets his way.
> 
> Also, if we KNOW about all this, think about how much is happening that we DON'T know about, but is as much, or even more ominus


I had these same feelings when Bush was in office. So on that front, we have opposing opinions.

I'm not posting this as an attack on you or your viewpoint, but just wanting to convey a message and hope that anyone with this viewpoint can take as it's intended.

There was a poll posted last night on MSNBC of national approval of Obama as president vs. his handling of the economic crisis. A far larger percentage of republicans disapprove of his handling of the crisis - 58%, but only a few disapprove of him as president.

However, when he has the approval of 42% of republicans and 92% of democrats on his handling of this crisis, it stands to reason there is far more support out there for the changes he's making than not.

TPTB are fighting the president for power over the money supply. This is how it's always been since the creation of the Federal Reserve, which guaranteed them that power they craved.

The worldwide opinion is that the only way for the US to save itself is by nationalizing the banks until the crisis is over, fix them, then sell them back to private industry.

TPTB here are fighting that effort tooth and nail because it means the end of their reign of economic power. If nationalization isn't on the table (as it appears not to be here) world sentiment is there will be a global economic collapse.

These are just my observations from the few programs I've watched recently, and many hours spent gathering info from the web to bring my understanding of this situation up to speed.

The people opposing these changes are in the minority. If my viewpoint was in the minority, I'd have to wonder what all these other people out there are seeing that I'm not.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Razorback21 said:


> I have concerns about the upcoming treasury auction. The largest one week auction combined with China and Saudi Arabia not participating. It just doesn't bode well. I can see Treasuries not selling to possibly be systemic risk as well. I'm sure the Government will have some type of spin on why they all didn't sell.


When is it? How and where can we tune in? This would tell us how likely it is that other nations are supporting our efforts to handle this crisis as proposed.

ALG, I'm waiting for Tim Geithner's announcement, and have been in suspense over it all weekend.

Why 1.3 trillion? Is that the number needed to stabilize the banking system? Noriel Rubini mentioned the system is insolvent and has only been 30% funded at this point. That number sounds pretty close to the amount needed to keep it solvent.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

pickapeppa said:


> I had these same feelings when Bush was in office. So on that front, we have opposing opinions.
> 
> I'm not posting this as an attack on you or your viewpoint, but just wanting to convey a message and hope that anyone with this viewpoint can take as it's intended.
> 
> ...


The fallacy in your thinking is the view of BO as a white knight. How do you think a guy with absolutely no experience got there? TPTB put him there. He is doing exactly what they want him to do. Tim "Tax Cheat" Geithner will announce today another costly "fix" to the financial system. 

I have always wondered why TPTB would want to crush the economy but it does not matter. If we go into even more debt then we essentially become indentured servants to government debt. BO is just the salesman.


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

still, the botton line is that the greedy people(people that thought they could make a fast buck off other people) and the people that are living above their means will suffer.
people that are living the old fashing way(paying for what they have and not trying to keep up with the Jones really don't have much of a worry if they are prepped with food,debt or nearly debt free.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> The fallacy in your thinking is the view of BO as a white knight. How do you think a guy with absolutely no experience got there? TPTB put him there. He is doing exactly what they want him to do. Tim "Tax Cheat" Geithner will announce today another costly "fix" to the financial system.
> 
> I have always wondered why TPTB would want to crush the economy but it does not matter. If we go into even more debt then we essentially become indentured servants to government debt. BO is just the salesman.


Fallacious thinking or not, by all accounts it looks to me like Obama was the choice of the people.

Obama is a centrist. He put Tim Geithner in as Treasury Secretary, because he is a centrist. He is a capitalist. He's not a socialist.

I am wary of possible plans to install a world currency, NWO order and all that. But those plans haven't revealed themselves yet.

In time, the truth will come out. But after hearing the opinions of the rest of the world's top economists and businessmen debate this issue, it doesn't sound like those are the plans at all.

If this were the case, they would not be insisting on nationalizing the banks. They'd want the system we have in place to prevail. They're in disagreement with how Obama and our top businessmen are planning to handle this.

I believe his plan is to do everything it takes to keep the system we have today afloat, and if that fails, plan B would be to nationalize the banking system. But if we go broke in the process and aren't able to finance the option, there will be no other choice but to go with plan B.

My feeling? TPTB wanted McCain in office.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

TPTB had both groomed. The differences were not much.

I totally disagree that BO is a centrist. To him the government is the answer to everything. He never promotes private enterprise.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> TPTB had both groomed. The differences were not much.
> 
> I totally disagree that BO is a centrist. To him the government is the answer to everything. He never promotes private enterprise.


Which leads me to ask why TPTB would want him in office and why is he not proposing to nationalize the banking system, and why did he put Tim Geithner in charge of the Treasury?


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## spiffydave (Mar 19, 2008)

What great info. It's amazing that most senators and reps were there the day Paulson and the Fed discussed what happened and yet none of them have discussed it with the media until now.

I've posted the video to my Facebook page. Maybe this will open a few eyes that very ugly events are possible and maybe even likely.

I also really enjoyed Chris Martenson's "Crash Course" series of videos that explain the upcoming perfect storm of personal and public debt, retiring baby boomers, peak oil, population growth, and strains to earth's resources. His repeated quote is that "The next 20 years will not be anything like the past twenty years."

I highly recommend it for those who haven't seen it - http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse

Edited to add that these are free YouTube videos. He's not really selling anything though he does invite people to donate so he can reach others with his work.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Consumers, in general, are in debt up to their necks. This is playing out now. Consumers are not taking on debt and not spending like it's 1999. Some consumers are defaulting on debts.

Local governments are in debt up to their necks. Many state government are up to their necks in debt. On top of that, municipal and state governments have made promises for social spending that can not be maintained. Nor will they be able to service their debt. The Muni bond market may be next.

We all know about the federal government debts - and they are piling on more and more.

It is a mountain of past sins that will take decades to pay down, if ever. 

I just don't see how this story has a happy ending.


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## Razorback21 (May 13, 2003)

pickapeppa said:


> When is it? How and where can we tune in? This would tell us how likely it is that other nations are supporting our efforts to handle this crisis as proposed.
> 
> ALG, I'm waiting for Tim Geithner's announcement, and have been in suspense over it all weekend.
> 
> Why 1.3 trillion? Is that the number needed to stabilize the banking system? Noriel Rubini mentioned the system is insolvent and has only been 30% funded at this point. That number sounds pretty close to the amount needed to keep it solvent.


As I understand it, the Treasury doesn't announce the results of the auction until the end. After all, the Treasury wants transparency in all of its activities!!!!! (Sorry couldn't resist.)

We will see how this auction plays out, but if our leaders attempt to dump another 2.1 Trillion on top of our projected 1 Trillion deficit, we run the real risk of double digit inflation or worse.


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## QuiltingLady2 (Jan 3, 2007)

So we HAve had a run on the banks. Almost sounds like an attack on the system. No wonder Government has been working so hard to stop this break in the dam. 
3 or 4 trillion dollars is needed to stem this tide??? 
No I don't think you are over reacting. And I think this man is dead on serious. Scary serious.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> Consumers, in general, are in debt up to their necks. This is playing out now. Consumers are not taking on debt and not spending like it's 1999. Some consumers are defaulting on debts.
> 
> Local governments are in debt up to their necks. Many state government are up to their necks in debt. On top of that, municipal and state governments have made promises for social spending that can not be maintained. Nor will they be able to service their debt. The Muni bond market may be next.
> 
> ...


If ever there were a time in history this country needed the good will and backing of other countries, this would be it.

I'm expecting soaring inflation to be the second crisis after this one gets dealt with. It naturally follows what we're seeing happen today.

Would keeping interest rates low while limiting access to credit slow down inflation during the recovery process?

We are about to get hammered financially from all sides. Victory gardens, here we come.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Not at all. The market has been telling us for years that the interest rates should be higher, not lower. 

The Fed learned in the 90s that everybody is happy when they keep interest rates low. And now we know that it also creates bubble economies. 

Volcker solved stagflation in the 70s with very high interest rates. 

Higher interest rates also discourages BORROWING/CREDIT and promotes SAVINGS. Whodathunkit!

So we need to reward savers - let me put this another way - we need to stop punishing savers and rewarding borrowers.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

the question is, does the economy make BO look like a socialist or is BO making our economy scocialist.
some one knew our economy was going bad and helped it along. Now BO is what we have to fix it. I hope that sooner or later we are able to start feeling like he is the guy to do it, but right now I think they are lying to us. Which could be a good thing.
I don't think the people put Bo in office he has changed so much since the primarys, no one could have know what they were getting when they voted for him. He got into office because people were scared. If they had know what he was i think they may have voted different. 
If any one here doesn't think poles can be faked they are wrong.


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## QuiltingLady2 (Jan 3, 2007)

SquashNut said:


> the question is, does the economy make BO look like a socialist or is BO making our economy scocialist.
> some one knew our economy was going bad and helped it along. Now BO is what we have to fix it. I hope that sooner or later we are able to start feeling like he is the guy to do it, but right now I think they are lying to us. Which could be a good thing.
> I don't think the people put Bo in office he has changed so much since the primarys, no one could have know what they were getting when they voted for him. He got into office because people were scared. If they had know what he was i think they may have voted different.
> If any one here doesn't think poles can be faked they are wrong.


No yours in another question and of topic.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Heh, this thing isn't going to end until they create the big kahuna of bubbles, the currency bubble. We are going to end up like Iceland or post Soviet Russia yet.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Razorback21 said:


> I have concerns about the upcoming treasury auction. The largest one week auction combined with China and Saudi Arabia not participating. It just doesn't bode well. I can see Treasuries not selling to possibly be systemic risk as well. I'm sure the Government will have some type of spin on why they all didn't sell.


I am concerned of this as well.. there is auctions this week and next as well..and I have a bad feeling about this one and I am afraid of what the Fed might do if the auctions fail...


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

pickapeppa said:


> I had these same feelings when Bush was in office. So on that front, we have opposing opinions.
> 
> I'm not posting this as an attack on you or your viewpoint, but just wanting to convey a message and hope that anyone with this viewpoint can take as it's intended.
> 
> ...




It is exactly that level of support which will be our undoing.. he is supported by those who voted for him, those whose task it is to wtachdog him.. and no one will open their eyes. This is not about him but about what is going on... he is just there... but as long as they have the one they adore.. no one will watchdog him...


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Aintlifegrand said:


> It is exactly that level of support which will be our undoing.. he is supported by those who voted for him, those whose task it is to wtachdog him.. and no one will open their eyes. This is not about him but about what is going on... he is just there... but as long as they have the one they adore.. no one will watchdog him...


People have said that about Bush and his misguided wars and taking away civil rights. No one should be above criticism. The whole watchdog thing goes way beyond just the Oval Office. There are just too many people in big business that also happen to be SEC regulators, Federal Reserve chairman and company, Senators, the list goes on. The amount of people in the government that have conflicts of interest is ridiculous. The sooner big money gets out of government the better.


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

> However, when he has the approval of 42% of republicans and 92% of democrats on his handling of this crisis, it stands to reason there is far more support out there for the changes he's making than not.


I must have missed something. What I heard on CNN is that NOT ONE repub in the house supported the stimulus package and only three repubs in the senate supported it. How does that translate to 42% of the repubs support it?


.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

uyk7 said:


> I must have missed something. What I heard on CNN is that NOT ONE repub in the house supported the stimulus package and only three repubs in the senate supported it. How does that translate to 42% of the repubs support it?
> 
> 
> .


That's because it was a public poll. ;-)


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

PhilJohnson said:


> People have said that about Bush and his misguided wars and taking away civil rights. No one should be above criticism. The whole watchdog thing goes way beyond just the Oval Office. There are just too many people in big business that also happen to be SEC regulators, Federal Reserve chairman and company, Senators, the list goes on. The amount of people in the government that have conflicts of interest is ridiculous. *The sooner big money gets out of government the better.*


This is the key, imho. If Obama can manage to keep his staff from being influenced by private interests, we may be on the road to recovering our government back - for the people - as it was intended to be.

The scary part is, there are so many spooked and worried about socialism, we ran away in the opposite direction so fast there wasn't time to recognize that end of the road has a cliff of it's own. Now we need to spend a whole lot of money bringing ourselves back from the slippery slope off the other side.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

NOt for long if it keeps going that way, I'll have to thread clean.
Angie


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

OOPS. 

My apologies to the S&EP gang.

After today's tragic events I am convinced that the new team at Treasury has no clue.

They are trying to push a rope - as in keep the credit bubble inflated. The market and, by extension, the consumer, is saying NO! MORE! CREDIT! EXCESSES!

The dollar remains strong but only in relation to other currencies. 

During the testimony Geithner let slip that there are a number of banks in trouble past $100 billion. The number? 25. That is $2.5 trillion right there. 

OK, now on to Rick Santelli. The derivatives built on these mortgage-backed securities are worthless but still held on the books. The BIG BANKS are INSOLVENT. Even the Senate and Geithner so much as admitted that if the banks opened their books that they would be insolvent. SO we all know the big banks are insolvent but if the big banks say so, then the Fed.Gov must move on them.

If you look at what they are proposing, just today, almost $3 trillion. And that does not get us to the end. 

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> Not at all. The market has been telling us for years that the interest rates should be higher, not lower.
> 
> The Fed learned in the 90s that everybody is happy when they keep interest rates low. And now we know that it also creates bubble economies.
> 
> ...


Here! Here!

It's time we got on the right track. Punish bad behavior and Reward good behavior. Tax the borrowers (with higher interest rates) and reward the savers (with higher interest rates). If a person can't afford the rates, let them save up the money and pay cash. Let's punish instant gratification...

Easy money got us into this mess (along with Barney Frank, etal, and their insistence on loosened lending requirements/standards)... It's going to take Hard Money to get us out.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

texican said:


> Here! Here!
> 
> It's time we got on the right track. Punish bad behavior and Reward good behavior. Tax the borrowers (with higher interest rates) and reward the savers (with higher interest rates). If a person can't afford the rates, let them save up the money and pay cash. Let's punish instant gratification...
> 
> Easy money got us into this mess (along with Barney Frank, etal, and their insistence on loosened lending requirements/standards)... It's going to take Hard Money to get us out.


But banks make their money off of borrowers. The more borrowers, the higher their stock goes. The more sub-prime borrowers, the more money they make. They don't want to turn off the flow. It would slow down their growth.

Fancy that.

:bash: <- (not directed toward anyone here)

How much would you figure that new bankruptcy bill that got passed factored into the excessive risk taking?

I hear Chase bank is now dropping the credit limits on borrowers, and if their current balance is over the limit, their getting hit with over the limit fees - not because they ran it up personally, but because the credit company lowered their limit.

This after doubling and tripling minimum payments.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I bet there was a great discussion here ... if only I'd gotten here sooner. 

I'm not particularly watching the economy right now. My plans are entirely focused on what and how much I'm going to plant this year. With a little luck I can insulate myself from almost anything that happens. 

We're going downhill fast though. Political parties aside, I don't trust any politicians to pull us out of this race to the bottom. It's not really in their best interests to do so, as politics by fear has been the way of government since the 1970's or earlier. The more we worry, the more they have us where they want us. 

So plant your gardens wide and big and hold every dime you can. Starve the machine and maybe it'll grind to a stop. Every calorie you eat that you didn't pay for is a victory against the world.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> OOPS.
> 
> My apologies to the S&EP gang.
> 
> ...


My feeling, they're going to let the big insolvent banks fail. It didn't sound to me like Geithner was interested in propping up bad management practices.

Ben Bernanke is concerned about the counterparties associated with BOA.

What a mess.

Also, I suspect they're going to offer everyone who's at risk of foreclosure, or in foreclosure the opportunity to refinance under more affordable terms. This would separate out the non-performing assets from the performing assets as they start to fall, and get them out of the toxic brew in order to value them.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Ernie said:


> I bet there was a great discussion here ... if only I'd gotten here sooner.


It was getting juicy. 

It's good to know that at least one of us here is ready. Back to thinking about buying that generator. If the day came we couldn't afford to pay our electric bill, the house would flood with the first big rainfall.

Save the money<- or ->Buy the generator

. . .


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

I am with Ernie.

Keeping one eye on the politicos (and keeping my BOHICA kevlar insert in my pants) and one eye on getting more self-sufficient. 

A little too cold here to do much of anything yet garden wise. 

Looking at planting 5 acres of wheat and corn, though, as soon as the ground thaws.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> I am with Ernie.
> 
> Keeping one eye on the politicos (and keeping my BOHICA kevlar insert in my pants) and one eye on getting more self-sufficient.
> 
> ...


Sounds like survival mode to me - be aware of all angles at all times.

Maybe next winter, we'll get to hibernate. :boring:


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Therapy


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> Therapy


Prescriptions

:help:


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## Mrs.Swirtz (Jan 13, 2009)

Thanks Ernie,
I don't have television so the only time I get any news is when I leave the house(not very often) or go online. Most people are scared, but don't know what to do about it. I always have a lot of food in the house because we live so far from town. I know we can hunt for meat but up here in Alaska it's hard to get fresh veggies. But the only time I get good paying work is in the summer. Hours from home. My garden normally looks like a concentration camp. We're renting now and trying to build a house out of pocket. Which takes a long time. I wish more people could make the sacrifice. Instant gratification is NOT the way to go. People in this country are too used to doing things the easy way. WORK for what you WANT or NEED and THEN buy it. DON'T get what you want and then work for it. It's a never ending cycle. Want , want , want, then work, work , work and want somemore. I was just about to get some where with all my hard work and now THE PEOPLE with all their wants are about to ruin it for me. There are alot of people out there blaming this ALL on the goverment, but if everyone wasn't so keen to HAVE things that they didn't work for we would never be in this mess. So instead of spending all my money on building this summer IF I get my job back.I will now have to worry about prepping in addition, which I was already doing but will need to step up. Sorry for ranting. Andi


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I don't see what the big news is on this now- it was headline news back in September- when Bush proposed to expand the FDIC protection to money market mutual funds because investers had panicked and a run was going on in those investments now. From a news report at that time-

"The panic sweeping the world's financial system hit Boston stalwarts Putnam Investments and State Street Corp., yesterday while the mutual fund industry struggled with billions of dollars in withdrawals from money market funds by investors worried about losing their cash.

Putnam abruptly closed the $12.3 billion Putnam Prime Money Market fund after corporations and other institutions that invest in it inundated the company with requests for their money back. It was the first time in Putnam's history that it was forced to close a fund in such a manner. The company said it plans to liquidate the fund slowly, to prevent its shareholders from losing money.

The frenzy of withdrawals highlights how much investors, who once considered money market mutual funds as safe as cash, have been spooked by the credit crisis gripping financial markets.

"There's a crisis of confidence in the system," said Putnam chief executive Robert Reynolds.

No foreign plots or mysterious conspiracies- it was front page news. It why Bush took the actions he did. And his actions did stem the panic ............


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Ernie said:


> I bet there was a great discussion here ... if only I'd gotten here sooner.
> 
> I'm not particularly watching the economy right now. My plans are entirely focused on what and how much I'm going to plant this year. With a little luck I can insulate myself from almost anything that happens.
> 
> ...


I agree with ya, Ernie....with one exception. Watching the economic news makes good incentive for prepping. Every now and then you'll get a glimpse of the real truth (how bad it could really get & for how long), when someone lets something slip in a discussion. It's those little glimpses that get me into action. Even DH is in full survival mode now, thinking about buying more canning jars and seeds, lol.


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

I'm interested in learning more about the $15 K being made available to buy a used/new/second home. What I think I heard was that you could use it as a down payment. If so, there is a house near us for $25 K, put that $15 K down on it and owe $10 K. Turn around and sell it to my kid for $15 K, they get a house, I get $5 K. Sounds good to me. 

Actually though, I would like to buy some land and if that money were to be available, I would use it before the econmy collapses.

.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Txsteader said:


> I agree with ya, Ernie....with one exception. Watching the economic news makes good incentive for prepping. Every now and then you'll get a glimpse of the real truth (how bad it could really get & for how long), when someone lets something slip in a discussion. It's those little glimpses that get me into action. Even DH is in full survival mode now, thinking about buying more canning jars and seeds, lol.


I guess so, but at this point I don't really need any more incentive.  It's been sounding like a good strategy for years now.

In this forum we often seem like we're just passing each other the same bad news back and forth, reassuring ourselves that we are in fact doing the right thing by prepping. Part of that is a natural inclination, as when the rest of the world tells you that you're crazy, it's good to find like-minded people and "reaffirm your faith". But we can carry it too far sometimes. 

We are seeing a transition state right now, where our crackpot ideas are starting to make us look visionary. People are waking up to the idea that it might not be a bad idea to start being more thrifty and self-reliant. I look at my own life and I'm reminded by how far I've come but yet how far I've still got to go, and how precious little time is left to me to see us to a comfortable spot.

I have no time anymore for constant worry and gloom. I've got work to do. The strategy has been laid down and the only discussions left are tactical ones. The why has been answered. Now it's time for the when, where, and what.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2009)

Ernie said:


> I have no time anymore for constant worry and gloom. I've got work to do. The strategy has been laid down and the only discussions left are tactical ones. The why has been answered. Now it's time for the when, where, and what.


 Ayep.

.....Alan.


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## firegirl969 (Nov 3, 2008)

"I'm not particularly watching the economy right now. My plans are entirely focused on what and how much I'm going to plant this year. With a little luck I can insulate myself from almost anything that happens. 

We're going downhill fast though. Political parties aside, I don't trust any politicians to pull us out of this race to the bottom. It's not really in their best interests to do so, as politics by fear has been the way of government since the 1970's or earlier. The more we worry, the more they have us where they want us. 

So plant your gardens wide and big and hold every dime you can. Starve the machine and maybe it'll grind to a stop. Every calorie you eat that you didn't pay for is a victory against the world." posted by Ernie

Amen, Ernie


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Ernie said:


> I bet there was a great discussion here ... if only I'd gotten here sooner.
> 
> I'm not particularly watching the economy right now. My plans are entirely focused on what and how much I'm going to plant this year. With a little luck I can insulate myself from almost anything that happens.
> 
> ...



Thats what hubby and I have finally come to conclude..we will continue the good fight but from a distance.. we are in essence "Checking out of this Hotel..as it has too many rats"..Oh we will be back I am sure but only once they have been exterminated...For now, it is about food, food, and more food. We have a bunch of us here so we have to hurry and finish up before the last straw...we won't need money then.. so we are busy converting cash to tangibles that will help us survive.. no new taxes for us...


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

I'd like to make our bank an offer to purchase our mortgage for pennies on the dollar.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

pickapeppa said:


> I'd like to make our bank an offer to purchase our mortgage for pennies on the dollar.


You just need to get out of the PDRK and homestead.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> You just need to get out of the PDRK and homestead.


PDRK?


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2009)

Pipples Democratic Republik of Kalifornia.

.....Alan.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

aka The Titanic


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Last time I checked, I was in Illinois.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

My Bad. I thought you had mentioned something about Kalifornia.

Illannoyed is just as bad, though.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

The People's Republic of Illinois. The whole state is tied to that corrupt cesspool of a city ... Chicago.


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## Razorback21 (May 13, 2003)

Ernie said:


> The People's Republic of Illinois. The whole state is tied to that corrupt cesspool of a city ... Chicago.


Amen to that...In Southern Illinois, we have absolutely nothing in common with the Chicago area, yet we have their US Senators, their choice of who is Governor, etc. 

The joke in the Southern Illinoisan newspaper for years has been that Southern Illinois should secede from Illinois and join Kentucky. At least our values are somewhat similar, except their thoroughbreds are better than ours!!!! lol.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Ernie said:


> The People's Republic of Illinois. The whole state is tied to that corrupt cesspool of a city ... Chicago.


My apologies and sympathies.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

You just can't move from Texas to Illinois directly. They should have warned me to spend some time in ... say ... Wisconsin first. Some happy medium between a free state and a communist one.


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## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

> If this doesn't scare the prepping pants off of you...


It took quite a while to load over dialup, but I watched the video. No real surprise here, other than a raised eyebrow that one Senator 'let it slip' that:
"It's like being dropped into the middle of the Atlantic ocean with a life raft, and trying to figure out which way is the closest land, or even if we can make it".


FDR said:


> "There are no accidents in politics."


 :TFH:
Did anyone else catch that Senator K didn't/couldn't answer the caller's question? 

And all that "wealth" created out of thin air - did it really disappear? or did a large portion just get moved to 'smarter pockets' (at everyone else's future expense)?

How many like that caller are backed into a corner with "the cost of living" as it is now even with a job? What happens when the 10% (or better) real inflation get's kicked into high gear with all this new 'paper' in the pipe? What happens when unemployment and all the rest of those 'social benefits' become overdrawn for those who don't have paying work? 

Will people be scrambling for any level of pay (even less than 'minimum wage'), just to keep body and soul together? At what point do the bulk of 'the people' become serfs - beholden to the the entities holding the debt 'they the congress' have made in your name, because who can afford property taxes even if you fall off the bottom of the inflation adjusted income tax schedule (more needs to cover x inflation to make the national debt manageable x lower wages - not just in inflationary terms either)?

I believe this is called "Waiting for the other shoe to drop". Unfortunately, there is no place to run, no place to hide, it's a big pile of manure falling toward the ventilator, and the fan keeps speeding up. The best one can do is prepare to live very, very small for as long as possible; to hunker down and hopefully be able to duck at just the right time. :lookout:


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

Ernie said:


> So plant your gardens wide and big and hold every dime you can. Starve the machine and maybe it'll grind to a stop. Every calorie you eat that you didn't pay for is a victory against the world.


Excellent advice. Planning on doing the same.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Andy N, I've been thinking the same things.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Interesting change of events on this. NOW there are some reports coming out this man, Kanjorsky, didn't have his facts straight, that there was no electronic run on the banks, and that this came from unverifiable sources from a New York Post report.

Hmmm.

The details.

Yes, this is from a blog piecing the parts together with appropriate linkage.

Once again, it's up to individuals to decide which version of 'the truth' they'll believe.

H/T to Matthew Nemo Saroff.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

TPTB are "correcting" his remarks? Oh, my!

Well, if you need a trill, then watch this:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nJ7LM3iyNg[/ame]


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

PBS is running a Frontline special entitled "Inside the Meltdown" tonight which recaps the events of last Sept. The show airs tonight, Tues, Feb 17th at 9 PM:


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601088&sid=aFcNFr.VotW8&refer=muse


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## spiffydave (Mar 19, 2008)

That Frontline piece will be viewable online here in case you or your DVR miss it on the TV:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/

Looking forward to it. I've enjoyed Frontline over the years.


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