# The reality of BUGGING'OUT......Not realistically considered



## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

The reality of BUGGING'OUT......Not realistically considered.
______________________________________________________

There is *REALLY* only one part of the whole *bug-in or bug-out *thought discussion that is note worthy.

All locals will block all roads/paths/trails/Rail Tracks/waterways/etc./etc./etc. With vehicles/trees/burning tires/heavy equipment/ etc./etc./etc.

Your NOT welcome anyplace........no one cares how much gold or silver or food or guns or skills you bring, not for the first 90 days. 

Nothing you bring is worth more then the trouble you and hundreds of thousands will surely be.

This is not complicated.........If you think you could be in HARMS WAY at some future point in time because of where you reside..........pack your crap and move......now, today or this week, or in the next few hours. Elsewise you are gambling with your life and the lives of your loved one. 

*CLUE: This gamble has very poor odds for your team. *

What you call Bugging-Out..........to the eye of the people everywhere you go......you are an Invader, coming there to expedite their death.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

What is it you see coming?


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Does it matter......???

I mean really does it really matter......???


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Only the scale of the event.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> Only the scale of the event.


Do you use a seat belt.........??? Do you only use your seatbelt if you expect a given level of destruction....??? Or do you use the seatbelt to assist with all unknowns.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

I'm building an ark incase the water reaches 6200'


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

WOW.........your really super serious about this prepping silliness. I don't prep for hardly anything, maybe a small windstorm or a small snowstorm. I just don't understand why some people feel the need to prepare for apocalypses. I have a full "Government Recommended" 72 hours of supplies..........I'll be fine.



oneraddad said:


> *I'm building an ark incase the water reaches 6200'*


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Sourdough said:


> WOW.........your really super serious about this prepping silliness. I don't prep for hardly anything, maybe a small windstorm or a small snowstorm. I just don't understand why some people feel the need to prepare for apocalypses. I have a full "Government Recommended" 72 hours of supplies..........I'll be fine.


Well those of us who are more prepared,will be living more comfortably than those who prepared for "72hours" and thought it was no big deal


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Someone's been reading Jerry D Young stories again.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

"Government recommended..." 
Should that be considered an endorsement?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I highly recommend this book. 

http://www.onesecondafter.com/


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

i'll just"' bug in " happily at home where being prepared for hard times is nothing new ,


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

arnie said:


> i'll just"' bug in " happily at home where being prepared for hard times is nothing new


"Bugging out" is something you do as a last resort.
To not have a plan is foolish, but having a B O plan doesn't mean it's your only plan.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Must be the heat, everyone picking on poor Sourdough. What he means is, "you won't make it here and if you do you aren't welcome so don't bother trying". 

Of course with all this heat here the great frozen north is looking pretty tempting!


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

arnie said:


> i'll just"' bug in " happily at home where being prepared for hard times is nothing new ,


It will likely be a better choice. But in my opinion the key to "Buggin'in" is being far, far, far from other human animals. Most of those who feel they will be safe on their small rural farm/homestead will likely have the same experience as the small farmers and peasant farmers in Eastern Europe in the early 1940's where tens of millions were murdered and had their crops and animals taken, by wave after wave after wave after wave of invaders, both domestic and other.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I live at the end of ten miles of bad road. This puts me twenty two miles from the nearest gas station and pay phone. I have a good well, garden, livestock, and a couple years of home canned food. I'll stay here and wait for all of the people who bug out.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I live in the Chihuahuan desert, in the mountains, down a road that a person needs a high clearance vehicle preferably 4 wheel drive. Large county with a population of around 900. Closet large city nearly 200 miles away, through the desert. Enough wildlife to support us and the ability to harvest it. I'm staying where I am but I do have a backup if needed.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Muleskinner2 and No Really...............you are (in my opinion) strategically well located.. Good planning.

I sometimes wish I still had my Lake Clark homestead. But I'll make my stand here in the Chugach National Forest, if necessary.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

that's about my opinon ,with the nearest one stop light town being 10 miles of mt road and a mile to state maintained dirt road i'm not to worried about walmart zombies . with gravity fed water plenty of food on the hoof, in the jar,and growing . but most importantly is an ability with all the old tools , equipment , to just keep on keepin on


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

...........The concept of living in one's home during a societal breakdown is fine until a parent or child needs emergency medical\dental care ! All the idea's about being able to maintain the status quo fly out the window when a child has been bitten by a poisonous snake.............what happens then !? The Bugger...inners must , once again depend upon and seek state\federal resources to receive the help they can't supply themselves .
...........The simple truth IS , all members of a society are dependent upon each other , and , will Never be completely self sufficient unless they can accept the demise of a family member because they didn't want to accept medical services supplied by an agency they dislike . , fordy


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

fordy said:


> ...........The concept of living in one's home during a societal breakdown is fine until a parent or child needs emergency medical\dental care ! All the idea's about being able to maintain the status quo fly out the window when a child has been bitten by a poisonous snake.............what happens then !? The Bugger...inners must , once again depend upon and seek state\federal resources to receive the help they can't supply themselves .
> ...........The simple truth IS , all members of a society are dependent upon each other , and , will Never be completely self sufficient unless they can accept the demise of a family member because they didn't want to accept medical services supplied by an agency they dislike . , fordy


If it's bad enough I'm bugging out/in there won't be any rescue services. By the way it's over 200 miles to anything more than an aid station here. Emergencies are all handled by life flight. We are a very low population area.


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## survival49 (May 6, 2018)

Problem is he and some of you are delusional to think those people are on this site and listening. They will be desperate and or in shock that they have lost everything they whole dear, including family, friends and the internet. I will bug in and I do prep for what I believe can or will affect my location and my country. I’m not religious, but I believe in god and I have a conscious, so I will help those in need to a point as I need 12 adults to protect what I have and I only have 8 in my group I need more. Let me see you turn a doctor and his family away or even a nurse, EMT or dentist. In an exodus you will see all kinds.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

I will turn everyone away..........as I believe that the only safe way through the first 3 or 6 months is to avoid "ALL" human contact.



survival49 said:


> *Let me see you turn a doctor and his family away or even a nurse, EMT or dentist.* In an exodus you will see all kinds.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It will take more than three months for sure for things to sort themselves out.

A lot of meds have 90 day prescriptions. After everyone runs out of psychoactive drugs, it will get interesting.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> After everyone runs out of psychoactive drugs, it will get interesting.


It will get interesting a lot sooner than that.
The odds of it happening are quite close to zero though.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Sourdough said:


> Muleskinner2 and No Really...............you are (in my opinion) strategically well located.. Good planning.
> 
> I sometimes wish I still had my Lake Clark homestead. But I'll make my stand here in the Chugach National Forest, if necessary.


Thanks, I didn't end up here by accident.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It will get interesting a lot sooner than that.
> The odds of it happening are quite close to zero though.


What makes you think it won't happen?


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> It will take more than three months for sure for things to sort themselves out.


For sure..........if they ever get sorted out. After many months I'll come out of the wilderness and observe from a long distance how things are.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Those of us in the southwest are very close to one of the largest third world countries in the world. A place where most children never get a vaccination, or see a dentist. If they get sick, they get better or they die. If they get bitten by a snake, they get better or they die. In Arizona around one thousand illegals cross the border every day.

If the overall situation goes south for any length of time, we will have more to worry about than a few hungry city dwellers.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> Thanks, I didn't end up here by accident.


I am sure that everyone who is serious, has gone to substantial effort to position themselves in a preferred location.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> If the overall situation goes south for any length of time,* we will have more to worry about than a few hungry city dwellers*.


Sorry to hear you will have to deal with that. I don't expect anyone will ever come here to this location post SHTF. Which is why I selected it.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SRSLADE said:


> What is it you see coming?


Say the power goes out in Phoenix metro area for five days in August. That is somewhere north of five million people with out lights, water, ac, or communications. By the end of the second day, they would need bull dozers to bury the dead.

If there were a way to evacuate them, which there isn't. Where would you put that many people? It just might get a little wild western for a few days.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

survival49 said:


> They will be desperate and or in shock that they have lost everything they whole dear, including family, friends and the internet.


I think you mean internet, friends and family" in order of importance...


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

muleskinner2 said:


> Say the power goes out in Phoenix metro area for five days in August. That is somewhere north of five million people with out lights, water, ac, or communications. By the end of the second day, they would need bull dozers to bury the dead.
> 
> If there were a way to evacuate them, which there isn't. Where would you put that many people? It just might get a little wild western for a few days.


I'll stay with my sister in Tuscon from time to time and I notice even though Phoenix is north it seems to run 4-5 degrees hotter on average, including at night(my figures). She says the amount of concrete there holds in the heat like an electric blanket.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

muleskinner2 said:


> Those of us in the southwest are very close to one of the largest third world countries in the world. A place where most children never get a vaccination, or see a dentist. If they get sick, they get better or they die. If they get bitten by a snake, they get better or they die. In Arizona around one thousand illegals cross the border every day.
> 
> If the overall situation goes south for any length of time, we will have more to worry about than a few hungry city dwellers.


Just an observation but the way I read your post is that is that the people of said third world country are going to be much better
adapted to survive naturally?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

muleskinner2 said:


> I live at the end of ten miles of bad road. This puts me twenty two miles from the nearest gas station and pay phone. I have a good well, garden, livestock, and a couple years of home canned food. I'll stay here and wait for all of the people who bug out.


40 years ago, I'd been at the "Back to the Land" thing about a decade when I ran across a small group of preppers. I realized that if one person stores up lots of food and another stores up lots of ammunition, the farmer loses. I also began to listen to all the folks that lived in far away cities that thought the ten acres of woods they owned in my neighborhood was their "bug out" location. Some thought they'd hunt or fish on State or Federal lands. Multiply that thought by a hundred or a thousand and it is easy to see the SHTF event quickly comes to my neighborhood. 
Not knowing what sort of SHTF event might be, makes preparation impossible. If cities become too dangerous, expect the population to bleed out into every remote area. Most will be unprepared, some will be armed.
This group of prepers dissolved when we saw that 24/7 security was imposable for a small family and no one was willing to leave their home to secure the home of another. Try spending a week on your own, carrying all your future needs on your back. Ain't easy.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

haypoint said:


> This group of prepers dissolved when we saw that 24/7 security was imposable for a small family and no one was willing to leave their home to secure the home of another.


The only solution that I have figured out, is to be so far away that there is no need for security.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Sourdough said:


> The only solution that I have figured out, is to be so far away that there is no need for security.


There is no need for security in rural areas when everything is rolling along fine. But in any sort of SHTF event, no area exists that is far enough away. In fact, many remote areas are the worst equipped to handle sudden influxes of empty handed "zombies".


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

haypoint said:


> But in any sort of SHTF event, no area exists that is far enough away.


This is one of the many "CLASSIC" blanket statements that people make, reference prepping and survival of a massive SHTF event. And people just keep repeating this over and over and over. I am NOT attacking you. It is just that there are a lot of these type of statements in the prepping community. And it undermines prudent decision making.

Think parts of Alaska or Canada or the open Oceans. There are so many uninhabited islands along the Alaska coast. We run Guided Hunts, that require a two hour flight into the Alaska wilderness, we land on a glacier, and then from there you start the 43 miles cross wilderness backpacking hike, and that just gets you to where we start the hunt.

I look out my cabin window at extremely rugged Alaska wilderness, that no human has entered in over 125 years.

If I was a much younger man, I would purchase a sea worthy barge, and build a small quality cabin on it, and have it towed to a very deep inlet in remote South-East Alaska.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

damoc said:


> Just an observation but the way I read your post is that is that the people of said third world country are going to be much better
> adapted to survive naturally?


They don't survive naturally now, and that would be the problem. They would come north and take whatever was left. They do it now on a smaller scale. Ranchers along the border take turns going to town for supplies. Someone must always be at the house or it will be looted. You have to cover your windows at night, because a lighted window draws rifle fire after dark. The smugglers cut the fences every night. This is the normal situation at this time. Imagine when they realize there will be no police or border patrol to respond.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Sourdough said:


> If I was a much younger man, I would purchase a sea worthy barge, and build a small quality cabin on it, and have it towed to a very deep inlet in remote South-East Alaska


I really like this idea.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> I really like this idea.


Several things that would be abundant........Unlimited fresh pure water, Unlimited food, from land animals, the ocean, and the rivers/streams, Unlimited firewood for heat, Unlimited isolation from humans.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

haypoint said:


> 40 years ago, I'd been at the "Back to the Land" thing about a decade when I ran across a small group of preppers. I realized that if one person stores up lots of food and another stores up lots of ammunition, the farmer loses. I also began to listen to all the folks that lived in far away cities that thought the ten acres of woods they owned in my neighborhood was their "bug out" location. Some thought they'd hunt or fish on State or Federal lands. Multiply that thought by a hundred or a thousand and it is easy to see the SHTF event quickly comes to my neighborhood.
> Not knowing what sort of SHTF event might be, makes preparation impossible. If cities become too dangerous, expect the population to bleed out into every remote area. Most will be unprepared, some will be armed.
> This group of prepers dissolved when we saw that 24/7 security was imposable for a small family and no one was willing to leave their home to secure the home of another. Try spending a week on your own, carrying all your future needs on your back. Ain't easy.


We don't need to wonder what it would be like. We can see real time examples on the news every day. Just look at the droves of refuges fleeing the cities in the middle east. Without outside help they would all be dead within a few days. If you look closely you will notice that the people who are fleeing are urban dwellers.

They are carrying household goods and luggage. What you don't see are shepherds, or nomads. The shepherds and nomads fade into the back country until the masses leave or die off. I have seen it first hand in west Africa, after a few weeks or a month things settle down. Those that are left simply get on with their lives.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Sourdough said:


> Several things that would be abundant........Unlimited fresh pure water, Unlimited food, from land animals, the ocean, and the rivers/streams, Unlimited firewood for heat, Unlimited isolation from humans.


Do you have a particular area in mind?


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> *Do you have a particular area in mind*?


NO........I'll never do it, as I am 71 y/o

You would want to choose a bay or inlet that did not go dry at extreme negative low tide. But there are bays and inlets that are ten miles deep.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

damoc said:


> Just an observation but the way I read your post is that is that the people of said third world country are going to be much better
> adapted to survive naturally?


Poor people in third world countries are already living under those conditions.
The world won't change for them.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Sourdough said:


> I look out my cabin window at extremely rugged Alaska wilderness, that *no human has entered in over 125 years*.


But you can get to a UPS location in under an hour when you sell something online, or walk to the bottom of the mountain to pick up supplies you ordered from Amazon. 

It's almost like magic...........


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> But you can get to a UPS location in under an hour when you sell something online, or walk to the bottom of the mountain to pick up supplies you ordered from Amazon.
> 
> It's almost like magic...........



No magic, no convoluted thinking either... When I look out of my cabin window, I can see mountain ranges similar to what SD is talking about, BUT I can drive out of my long-azzed driveway onto a remote county road that is accessible to others. So, I get what he is talking about. One of the differences in his situation and mine is that he has to hike to the road; I can drive to the road... but those mountains we are talking about are blessed wilderness...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

CajunSunshine said:


> So, I get what he is talking about.


I get what he talks about too.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

oneraddad said:


> I'm building an ark incase the water reaches 6200'


I thought about that and agreed til I did logistics. Best place here would be Mt. Washington. Imagine going through all that and the flood is just 88' short, ain't going' to bother.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> But you can get to a UPS location in under an hour when you sell something online, or walk to the bottom of the mountain to pick up supplies you ordered from Amazon.
> 
> It's almost like magic...........


There is a Class five white water rapids river (and sometimes it is class six white water river) between the horrifically awful rugged wilderness on the far side of said river, which is visible from my cabin. And everything on this side of the river, most of which I can hike to.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Sourdough said:


> There is a Class five white water rapids river (and sometimes it is class six white water river) between the horrifically awful rugged wilderness on the far side of said river, which is visible from my cabin. And everything on this side of the river, most of which I can hike to.


None of which has anything to do with what I said, or what you said before.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> None of which has anything to do with what I said, or what you said before.


Just because you can comprehend the relationship between posts, only means that is a skill you can improve on. Other members often see things that escape you.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Sourdough said:


> Just because you can comprehend the relationship between posts, only means you are deficient in that skill. Other members often see things that escape you.


I've seen things they haven't also.
I do believe you see things though.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Give me enough tequila and I can see pigs fly.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Sourdough said:


> Give me enough *tequila* and I can see pigs fly.


I knew that had something to do with it.


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## margoC (Jul 26, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> "Bugging out" is something you do as a last resort.
> To not have a plan is foolish, but having a B O plan doesn't mean it's your only plan.


Several forums I go to have a "survival and preparedness section. For a good number of people bugging out IS their only plan. And their prepping goes no further than purchasing guns. 

It's even more ironic when the people that live in what is usually considered "bug out territory" is obscessed with it. 

I think there are a lot of red Dawn fantasies.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

margoC said:


> I think there are a lot of red Dawn fantasies.


I agree.

Much of what I see on the "survival/prepping" sites seems to be based on fantasies and science fiction.

Luckily there are lots of experts there with all the answers


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Expert with all the answers ? That guy is on this forum


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

margoC said:


> I think there are a lot of red Dawn fantasies.



Living in the fantasy world is quite common for most...….cities full of people in fantasy land thinking they are living the good life and believe they are more civilized...…..people who think they are about anything you could possibly imagine.


In my travels I have found very few who are not living thru rose colored glasses in some sort of fantasy...…..reality is a lonely place with not many people there...…


There are some concepts and truths the closer to reality you get that some people are unable to deal with......I have seen people turn back when closing in on a reality unexpectedly on many occasions, most people do not like or want reality.


Who can blame people for creating their own realities of fantasies and then living them, its more interesting and fun for them...…….I can not say one is better than the other, if a person wants to live like red dawn is coming they are no better or worse than a person who lives any other fantasy. As long as they stay in their own yard I am good with them believing whatever they want.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

What is Red Dawn.......???


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Sourdough said:


> What is Red Dawn.......???


What you see in the morning if you drink too much Tequila 

Or maybe a movie.

_*



Red Dawn

Click to expand...

*_


> is a 1984 American war film directed by John Milius, with a screenplay by Kevin Reynolds and Milius. It stars Patrick Swayze, C. Thomas Howell, Lea Thompson, Ben Johnson, Harry Dean Stanton, Ron O'Neal, William Smith, and Powers Boothe.
> 
> It was the first film to be released in the US with a PG-13 rating[3] (under the modified rating system introduced on July 1, 1984).
> 
> ...


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I plan to defend my "bug out" site which is where I currently live. I'm far enough out that what few urban zombie stragglers manage to somehow show up will be pretty tired. It really should not take too long to figure out the best cuts and suitable recipes for the new protein supply. Might even be able to capitalize on a cheap labor source as well with a few that would rather lend a hand preparing meals as apposed to being the main course. I just don't see the point in leaving my comfy quarters that's already set up to go trekking off in the woods trying to live off grubs n bugs like the zombies.


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