# What if we all stopped paying taxes on things we own!



## carellama (Nov 12, 2007)

Have you ever thought about this. Why are we paying property tax. We own it and it is ours. Why amongst all the other taxes we pay must we pay this one? If we all stopped what would THEY do with all our stuff? I am anxious to hear your thoughts on this one.


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## kaitala (Mar 24, 2011)

THEY would take our stuff, auction it off, they'd make money, and we'd be paying rent to someone else and they'd make money, instead of us owning property, no?


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

Give it a try, I bet you wouldn't be owning anymore..lol 

I have always said you never really own your home and land because you are always paying taxes on it. Here is another one, if you buy equipment for your business and pay sales tax when buying here in TN, every year you have to pay personal property taxes on it to continue to own it. I think in TN once you reach a certain age if you qualify you can file to not have to pay property tax anymore. Don't know what the stipulations are though, cuz we havent reached that age yet..lol


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

The OP asked what if we ALL stop paying property taxes. I've wonder the same thing.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

We would all have to find another way to pay for the services provided by the government, or learn to do without them. Granted, the government has far exceeded their bounds, but we do need police and fire protection, water and sewer services, infrastructure, etc. and we have to pay for them.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Some states require people to list the major appliances in their homes, and then tax them every year. That seems wrong to me - after having their salaries taxed, the homeowner buys the item and pays sales tax on it, then has to continue paying taxes for it every year?

Property taxes are necessary to keep schools, roads, emergency services, etc running, and unless I'm wrong they are local taxes, not federal. I don't mind that as much as some of the others.


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## nebula5 (Feb 4, 2003)

Mom_of_Four said:


> Some states require people to list the major appliances in their homes, and then tax them every year. That seems wrong to me - after having their salaries taxed, the homeowner buys the item and pays sales tax on it, then has to continue paying taxes for it every year?
> 
> Property taxes are necessary to keep schools, roads, emergency services, etc running, and unless I'm wrong they are local taxes, not federal. I don't mind that as much as some of the others.


Federal and state taxes also pay for schools and roads. Wouldn't doubt if some go towards emergency services too.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

Most people don't have a problem with paying a reasonable amount of taxes when they can see where the money goes and have some control over it. That is why local governments are less likely to grow too large or be as wasteful as the federal government. At the federal level, waste is rampant and winked at by those who are responsible for minding the store because they have learned they can get away with it.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

nebula5 said:


> Federal and state taxes also pay for schools and roads. Wouldn't doubt if some go towards emergency services too.


They do, but they shouldn't. The most efficient way to fund these services would be to leave the money at the local level to start with, but by filtering that money through Washington, the federal government suddenly has the ability to take control of them from local government.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Via Ideas shifts local government is growing. Think Agenda 21 it is a trickle up plan local first.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

If you could get everyone to do it we'd bring the government to it's knees and be able to take control of it again. The problem is that folks won't even take the time to show up at rally's or town hall meetings, so the chances of getting everyone to cooperate on this is pretty much slim to none. I love the idea, just don't see it as being executable.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Creating a tax system which involves displacing a family, absolutely, for their unwillingness to support all aspects thereof, is as un-American a notion as ever there was.

Taxation should be set up to be voluntary, as it once was.

Forced extraction of blood is not liberty.

Useful infrastructure was built voluntarily by ambitious men of means, long before the organization of STATE, as was defense, fire protection, police, etc. ad infinitum.

If you would force even one man to pay for that which he either abhors, or will never himself use, you're better company for the Soviets and the Chinese, as those entities have been represented to us, any way.....


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Property taxes are local taxes. Schools, fire protection, roads, libraries, hospitals, etc. are funded with these dollars. Personally, I think our local county government does a pretty good job of not wasting our money. It's the bottomless pit in Washington DC that needs to go on a diet, and withholding property taxes doesn't do it. You would have to reduce your income to where you pay no income tax to accomplish that.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

Fear- Fear prevents us Americans from doing much of anything. We can see how good we have it compared to other peoples in other countries and we are afraid that if we make waves we will be in their place.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

One of the big BS lies we have been fed is that Govt needs tax money to fund it. If that is the case how in the 1800's and early 1900's did we accomplish so much and taxes were at a bare minimum


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

deaconjim said:


> They do, but they shouldn't. The most efficient way to fund these services would be to leave the money at the local level to start with, but by filtering that money through Washington, the federal government suddenly has the ability to take control of them from local government.


totally agree, the states that get double of what they pay to feds would be hurting which are mostly southern states but they will have to shape themselvesup


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

"The only good that will come from Obama is suffering and suffering is a great teacher"



we are used to it after suffering... AKA getting the shaft from king george that we are used to it.... fyi voted for gary johnson!


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

In New Mexico they tax your livestock. I get a form every year wanting to how many of which species we have. All they can see from the road are the horses. I wanted quail but you have to have a permit which gives them permission to do property inspections at any time. I'm not going to give anyone free access to my property on purpose.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

haley1 said:


> totally agree, the states that get double of what they pay to feds would be hurting which are mostly southern states but they will have to shape themselvesup


The states that are lacking would be forced to improve their situations. By allowing the federal government to dole out the funds, it takes away the incentive for them to do better. Come to think of it, it works the same way when government doles out money to individuals who find themselves lacking.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Txsteader said:


> The OP asked what if we ALL stop paying property taxes. I've wonder the same thing.



I'm right behind ya'll.......



Seriously, when has anybody EVER gotten everyone to do anything ? The American Revolution was supported by about 20% or so of the colonists I've read.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Mom_of_Four said:


> Some states require people to list the major appliances in their homes, and then tax them every year. That seems wrong to me - after having their salaries taxed, the homeowner buys the item and pays sales tax on it, then has to continue paying taxes for it every year?
> 
> Property taxes are necessary to keep schools, roads, emergency services, etc running, and unless I'm wrong they are local taxes, not federal. I don't mind that as much as some of the others.



I think when the tax man came I'd be cooking on a bbq grill, washing my clothes in the sink and not have a refrigerator, stove, washer, dryer, dishwasher or microwave on the property. I'm heading that way right now... My washer started leaking this morning and is currently in the shed waiting to be fixed or recycled.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

The problem I have w/ property taxes funding local govt is that they can take your home for lack of payment which, as Countryfied said, means you never really own your home. 

So, what would be possible alternatives? Two possibilities would be a personal income tax and raising the state/local sales tax rate.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

carellama said:


> Have you ever thought about this. Why are we paying property tax. We own it and it is ours. Why amongst all the other taxes we pay must we pay this one? If we all stopped what would THEY do with all our stuff? I am anxious to hear your thoughts on this one.


Basically, the bottom line is that the government will steal your property if you don't pay their extortion rate. If you resist they will hurt you or kill you.

You see all governments are simply bandits. If left without a government the strongest bully will eventually take over, thats what government is, its the strongest bandit. Some bandits are more lenient and some are more oppressive. They all claim to be stealing 'for your own good' or 'for your own safety', the mafia uses the same tactics...you pay "protection". The smart bandits call themselves liberal, democratic, capitalists...they have learned that if they let the peasants keep more of what they make they will actually have a greater incentive to be productive and make more which the bandits can then steal. 

The dumber, less sophisticated bandits call themselves communist, totalitarians, dictators, and socialists. They actually claim to own EVERYTHING that the peasants make and leave them just enough to survive ( they call that 'fairness' since all of the peasants are equally impoverished ). Under that oppression, the people become less productive and, ultimately, the bandits actually end up with less.

Someday, when we have evolved and become wise, we will cast off the bandits and find a way to keep them off. Until then, pick your poison.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

A person never owns anything, the governments only rent it to you.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

deaconjim said:


> We would all have to find another way to pay for the services provided by the government, or learn to do without them. Granted, the government has far exceeded their bounds, but we do need police and fire protection, water and sewer services, infrastructure, etc. and we have to pay for them.



Well lets see, 
Don't need the Police, not worth two hoots to me one way or another.
Now if they could stop a crime prior to it happening... I may reconsider.

Don't need the Fire department either, which much like police could be community based volunteers! 

Water and Sewer? Its called a Well and Septic system. 

The only other Infrastructure which should not be shoulder 100% by the business supplying it (IE Electric,Phone,Internet) is road ways.

Last I checked out of all those only one stipulated by the constitution.

Property Tax (as in real estate) Is normally Village,Town,City and County supporting

The State makes its money other ways most notable Income,Sales tax, License fees.


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

nebula5 said:


> Federal and state taxes also pay for schools and roads. Wouldn't doubt if some go towards emergency services too.


Here in Texas each county has a school tax. Our school tax is higher than our county tax.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

||Downhome|| said:


> Well lets see,
> Don't need the Police, not worth two hoots to me one way or another.
> Now if they could stop a crime prior to it happening... I may reconsider.
> 
> ...


The Constitution only applies to the federal government, which should have nothing to do with fire, police, water and sewer services. Those should be left solely up to local governments.

I understand your views on those services, but not everyone is inclined or able to live completely independently, which is how governments got their start in the first place. Total anarchy isn't really an option, but limiting the various types of government to their proper functions is.


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

Ruby said:


> Here in Texas each county has a school tax. Our school tax is higher than our county tax.


How much is the school tax? Does everyone pay the same or how is it based?


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

vicker said:


> A person never owns anything, the governments only rent it to you.


This...


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## kaitala (Mar 24, 2011)

I understand we have to pay for services, and that's what our property taxes go for. I'd love not to pay our $3200 per year for our 100x125 lot. And that's super cheap here in NJ. But, alas, that won't be a bill we'll be shorting.

This is one reason why I have such an issue with the argument that 'the rich' need to pay 'their fair share'. I believe most services any person uses are paid for through property tax, and some is through state and federal funding to the states. I don't think that "the rich" use more services than do I than do "really poor" (entitlements aside). And the rich already,by virtue of, on the whole, owing more expensive properties, pay more in property taxes. They're already paying far more than others.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

There are lots of ways to think about taxes and government - and some are obviously more productive than others. One very practical, if somewhat limited, way of thinking about it is that governments are associations designed to enforce property rights, and in some ways, to even define what property is, isn't, can be, or can't be, and to think of taxes as the funds used to maintain that enforcement.

If everybody mutually agrees to back out of the system, then the enforcement of your property rights falls exclusively to you and those you can convince to stand beside you - eventually devolving to the law of brute force.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

Here's the bottom line...if most people want to pay taxes and it isn't really theft....then why is it mandatory? If its such a good idea, and as some have suggested here 'most people have no problem paying tax', then it could be voluntary and people would still support it. I don't believe in 'ideas so good, they have to be forced at gun point'.

The reality is, we are being forced, under threat of violence, to pay for supposed 'services' that many don't want or need. Those who do can employ private interests to do the job cheaper and better.

And does anyone really believe that a person or family who doesn't pay their property tax should have their home stolen by the state then auctioned off and the money taken? Is this really in our best interest as individuals ( and hence, as a society)? Does anyone really believe that this violence, theft, and extortion is being done 'for our own good'?


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Darntootin said:


> Here's the bottom line...if most people want to pay taxes and it isn't really theft....then why is it mandatory? If its such a good idea, and as some have suggested here 'most people have no problem paying tax', then it could be voluntary and people would still support it. I don't believe in 'ideas so good, they have to be forced at gun point'.
> 
> The reality is, we are being forced, under threat of violence, to pay for supposed 'services' that many don't want or need. Those who do can employ private interests to do the job cheaper and better.
> 
> And does anyone really believe that a person or family who doesn't pay their property tax should have their home stolen by the state then auctioned off and the money taken? Is this really in our best interest as individuals ( and hence, as a society)? Does anyone really believe that this violence, theft, and extortion is being done 'for our own good'?


Simply put, it's the price you pay for having recourse to the law - no taxes, no enforcible law. Government by subscription is possible - feudalism/serfdom is one form of it - but I have no idea how one would manage republic-by-subscription.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

NoClue said:


> Simply put, it's the price you pay for having recourse to the law - no taxes, no enforcible law. Government by subscription is possible - feudalism/serfdom is one form of it - but I have no idea how one would manage republic-by-subscription.



What percent of your taxes would you say is used to provide you with 'recourse to the law'....5%? 6? Less? And what recourse does a family have when thrown out of their home, their property stolen, for not being able to afford the extortion rate?


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Darntootin said:


> What percent of your taxes would you say is used to provide you with 'recourse to the law'....5%? 6? Less? And what recourse does a family have when thrown out of their home, their property stolen, for not being able to afford the extortion rate?


100% - it's a package deal - you pay for the whole big mess or you get nothing at all except what you can hold onto yourself. Corruption is the entropy of social dynamics, which is why there are revolutions. Revolution is the reset, and for an all too brief period of time (often very brief) you only get the parts you want - then entropy starts leaking in and the system tilts towards those commanding the most force.

Either way there's the omnipresent threat of violence for the 'average joe': you pay your taxes under the threat of force from the government, or you live under the threat of force by anybody who comes along with the willingness to use it. As the system degrades, you live with both threats.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I sure wish so many people weren't so spineless, and would actually stand together and say ENOUGH!... I'd be one of the first ones not paying taxes.. 

Get back to more basic community based services... The problem is, the population has grown so great and convoluted, too many people wouldn't want to help out and be a part of the community. It could work in some more rural settings though... 

In Virginia, they take a ton of money for taxes. Personal property, even on a small pull behind trailer for motorcycles. If it has a tag. you're taxed.. .A friend pays $7000 a yer in taxes on a small home... insane... 

Just last year the state decided to give state workers a 3% bonus because there was a surplus of tax money... Now they are talking about raising taxes again because they don't have the money to fix the roads... WHAT?!?!?!?!

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/s...cle_d106d986-34ea-5fcb-baf0-3a1b00ae02b3.html

I'm sick of being bullied out of all my money in the name of "services provided"...

Ya know, it's funny... My car is being beat apart with all the bad roads here in VA where they have enough money to give state workers a bonus, but the second I cross the state line into WV, the roads are 100% better.... The dirt road our new place on is is better condition than a majority of roads here in VA... no kidding...


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

deaconjim said:


> We would all have to find another way to pay for the services provided by the government, or learn to do without them. Granted, the government has far exceeded their bounds, but we do need police and fire protection, water and sewer services, infrastructure, etc. and we have to pay for them.


Here in PA our property taxes mostly go to the mediocre school system. We are in the process of looking for property and taxes will definitely figure into our decision.

One property we looked at recently had property taxes of $5,000. Less than $600 went to public services. The rest was school taxes. I think PA is something like 10th in the nation for property taxes. That's what I'm told anyway.

Out fire departments here are mostly volunteer.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

I still vote we all pay a 10% flat tax and be done with it. NO property tax, sales tax, etc. The states and Fed can fight amongst themselves on how to split that 10%. Heck I might ever be willing to give the Fed 10% and the State 2% if they would just go flat tax for all.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

simi-steading said:


> I'm sick of being bullied out of all my money in the name of "services provided"...



It would be a fascinating study for a completely independent group of concerned Americans to go in, review ALL of the books, and find the percentage of collected taxes that is put back into "services", and the percentage that goes straight to the hog trough.

I guarantee it would make you sick, and, as has been referred to elsewhere for not-too unrelated an issue....."there would be a march on Washington before morning."


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

deaconjim said:


> The Constitution only applies to the federal government, which should have nothing to do with fire, police, water and sewer services. Those should be left solely up to local governments.
> 
> I understand your views on those services, but not everyone is inclined or able to live completely independently, which is how governments got their start in the first place. Total anarchy isn't really an option, but limiting the various types of government to their proper functions is.


Well then they should pool their resources and pay for it themselves... No?
I do not wanna pay for your Car Anymore then I want to pay for mine.
In the case of Mine though I do receive something in return.
Being a Republic, I should not be forced into anything I disagree with nor need.
One Big problem with the whole of the system is these folks you speak of are Highly concentrated in high population centers. 
Where as those of us that do for ourselves are spread out and not heard as well.
I'm just tired of footing the bill for all the No accounts and oh isn't the list long...
I will not enumerate them, but many most folks would over look.


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## nebula5 (Feb 4, 2003)

Ruby said:


> Here in Texas each county has a school tax. Our school tax is higher than our county tax.


In NY we have school and county tax also. But a good portion of public school budgets comes from the state. Are you saying you schools are funded solely by local(school) taxes?


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