# Introducing a puppy to the goats



## Shayanna (Aug 1, 2012)

We will be getting a 7-8 week old pup here in about a week or two. But I am unsure of how to introduce it to our goats. I keep seeing articles about penning it up with a doe or kids, but this doesn't seem possible with our set up. We have a pretty natural setting for our goats. All of the does and buck stay together. We expect them to stay together to have their kids. The ten acres we have fenced in is fenced with 3 strands of electric wire. At night, the 7 goats have a 10 by 10 shed that they all fit quite comfortably in and can go in and out of freely, but most nights they choose to sleep outside. Maybe tomorrow I can post pics of our set up. Should the pup be chained during the day until it learns the boundaries? Crated in the shed at night? Is it safe to put the dog in a crate, as some of my goats have horns? I know I sound like a terrible newb, but I need some advice.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Is this the Saint Bernard mix? First, you should never chain a dog. You might consider a pen to keep the pup in when not supervised and take the pup with you when you do chores or are outside. 

It sounds like you expect the pup to be a LGD rather than a farm dog. If that is what you want, you really should get a breed that is bred for that. People raise LGD with the stock so they bond to the stock, but doing the same thing with a non LGD will quite possibly have a different result as they are bred for something else. If that was all it took, you could raise any dog like this to be a LGD.


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## Shayanna (Aug 1, 2012)

this is the mix. I have been getting a lot of different answers about the whole breed debate, and I'm starting to think its just another chicken/egg/which-came-first type deal, so I'm going to give it a try. I would really just like some advice on how to go about doing it with my set up.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

So if it doesn't work and the dog injures a sheep what are the plans for the dog?


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## Shayanna (Aug 1, 2012)

then it didn't work out, the dog will be separated from the goats. and taken care of as an outdoor dog.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

It's not a chicken/egg which came first thing. People get a LGD for a reason. The instinct is bred into them. You can't take just any ole pup and raise it the same as you would a LGD and get the same results. They're wired different. If you raise a herding dog the exact same way you would raise a Pyrenees, you're still going to have a dog that wants to herd rather than protect because that is what they are hardwired to do. 

To raise a "farm" dog with your setup, build a pen for the pup if you are worried s/he will wander. If your house is set well back from the road, you might be okay leaving the pup out. Take the pup with you when you do chores so s/he gets used to the farm routine. Correct any undesired behavior such as chasing.


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## Shayanna (Aug 1, 2012)

All I really wanted advice on in this post was how to introduce it, what the set up should be, and how to begin training.. I didn't ask about breed. Looking through old threads, there are plenty of people who have used different breeds to guard their livestock and it has worked well for them. From pitbulls to rottweilers to american bulldogs, they have been used, and if trained properly, successfully.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

But you are talking about raising the pup the way you would a LGD by locking it in with the goats. Those other breeds (pitbulls, rottweilers, american bulldogs) were raised as farm dogs and as farm dogs, protect the farm and everything that's on it. The best farm dog I ever knew was a boxer/pitbull mix. She protected against any predators. She was raised as a farm dog and family pet not as a LGD. 

There really is a difference in a LGD and a farm dog and I'm not sure you're understanding that. 

You have been given advice here and on the other thread you started on how to properly introduce the pup to the goats and farm life. You can't train them to keep goats or other livestock on the property. You can't train them to guard. The natural inclination is there or it's not. 

You also should be aware that the pup may not become a decent farm dog until after a year or older. I got lucky in that my 9 month old pup wants to be in the pasture at night watching over things. I did not train her to do that. But she is a puppy and still chews things up and sometimes chases the chickens. If I had baby goats, she would probably try to play with them and could really hurt them without meaning too. My job as her owner is to teach her what is and isn't okay.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Incidentally, one of the worst guard dogs I ever met was a Rottweiler. She greeted everyone like long lost friends. Strange dogs were new playmates. Sweetest dog you will ever meet but a guard dog she was not. 

In any breed you will find exceptions. A lot has to do with training but it's not everything.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

I would not chain the dog. Nor would I have it with the goats unsupervised ever. You are asking for vet bills. Any poster on here can _claim_ their dog is good with animals or they can confuse *guarding* with being a *guardian*. There are lots of posters too with issues with non LGD and their goats and sheep, also some with actual LGD who have bitten, chewed or killed livestock. 

You want to introduce them, then take the puppy with you during chores, correct it when any chasing, nipping or prey drive happens. Put the dog in the house at night or wheen you are not around, or build a secure kennel. If you go the kennel route, make the dog a very nice large pen that he/she cannot get out of and the goats/sheep whatever cannot get into. Never forget that the dog is first and for most a predator who can kill and hunt for food or fun. 
That is how you introduce a non-guardian breed or mixed LGD breed to livestock IMO. 

If this puppy is free or low cost it still may cost you in the end and you would do better to invest in an actual LGD or fencing. 

Livestock Guardian Dogs can give you more info


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Most people wouldn't try to turn a bulldog into a waterfowl retriever, a husky into a herding dog, a greyhound into a scent hound, or bloodhound into a sled dog for obvious reasons. Yet many people still try to turn breeds that are not LGD's into LGD's for reasons I can't figure out. If you page through the forum you will see many new LGD people who have issues with the dogs specifically bred to guard livestock. You are only going to increase your chances of problems by using a breed thats not meant to be a LGD. The owners off LGD's are telling you not to use other types of dogs for a reason. I have yet to see a thread on here were Rottweilers, American bulldogs or Pitbulls have been used as LGDs and been reading the guardian forum since it started. I have seen them posted in the guardian forum as general farm dogs. LGD's live with their livestock 24/7 which is much different then an all around farm dog. I have owned all three of the previous breeds mentioned and with training they can be good farm dogs and they can also be horrible livestock killers. They are certainly not LGD's since they do not bond to livestock. They were bred as working dogs to work with humans and take directions form humans. If you want to try reinventing the wheel go ahead and give it a try but keep in mind your asking the dog to preform a task it was not bred to do. There are different breeds of dogs for a reason to perform different tasks. When things go wrong please don't take it out on the dog since its basically being set up to fail but who knows maybe even with odds not in your favor you may get lucky. Good luck, I hope things work out for all involved.


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