# Paleo Prepping?



## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

Just curious as to whether or not there were any Paleo preppers on this forum, and if so, how do you prep food? 

We've been trying to stick with the Levitical diet.. Paleo isn't too different, but we're mish-mashing the two.. basically eating Levitical but taking on the ideology of Paleo as well.. cutting out flours, legumes and such. 

Well, for the most part, preps usually consists highly of flours, sugars, legumes, etc... the things that aren't on a Paleo diet. I'm just curious how you prep if you strictly follow this diet. I've started noticing huge changes in my own body when I eat breads and things made with flour... part of the reason I'm trying to switch over to a more Paleo friendly diet.

This might also be good discussion for "diet specific" circumstances in general.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

What exactly is the Paleo diet? Roots and grubs?


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

Ernie said:


> What exactly is the Paleo diet? Roots and grubs?


Right? lol It's basically meat, veggies, fruits. Fresh stuff. I think we can cover down on maybe canned meats, veggies and fruits... but just seems like 3/4 of good preps wouldn't be useable for someone on this kind of diet. We will keep prepping in a well-rounded sense... but to people who live on fixed diets like this one.. I would think adding stuff like flours/sugars/legumes would really throw the bodies out of wack in SHTF situations. :/


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Ernie said:


> What exactly is the Paleo diet? Roots and grubs?


Knowing how Paleos lived I would guess heavy on meats and fats, green plants, nuts, fruit, etc.

I think that most Paleos dried their food, and they didn't exclude anything that could be obtained in nature.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Oh, well we can't do gluten of any sort in this household ... a couple of celiac issues.

So I stockpile meat, potatoes, beans and rice. I'll augment the rest with greens and garden veggies if I can. Otherwise, it'd see us through the winter.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Ernie, you'd be upset because Paleo says *"NO TATERS, no rice, no beans... and no milk."* But they do say if you choose milk, they recommend raw. That's a good thing.

The idea seems to be that ancient folks didn't have the issues present nowadays due largely to what was eaten.

The part I can't figure is NO grains of any kind. Too many Biblical references tell me that grains are okie dokie.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

My brother was on one of those diets and his cholesterol went through the roof. When they figured it out he was near to having a massive coronary.The beans have the right fiber to clean your blood and liver. And the wheat has the right fiber to clean your digestive system.
I think there is a enough health problems with out making new ones.
I think, what if you bugged out and away from your preps. Are you not going to eat just because what was offered is not part of a "diet"
eat a balanced diet. Of course this is only my opinion.
This is why I quit being a vegetarian. I figured I may as well get used to eating meat , rather than waiting till i was under stress.
The exception is if there is a food that makes you ill. Like milk does me.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

The Paleo period was well before farmers and the Biblical period.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

partndn said:


> The part I can't figure is NO grains of any kind. Too many Biblical references tell me that grains are okie dokie.


Biblical folk were not Paleo (except for Adam and Eve). Paleos were pre-agriculture.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Paleo, were hunter/ gatherers..right? Are we sure they never gathered any grass seed heads?? just sayn'!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

They probably did, but the effort involved would have equaled out any downsides. 

My wife explained to me what the Paleo diet thing is all about. No thanks! I can do without grains, but not without taters.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

We were just talking about how much effort it would take to collect enough grass seeds to feed rabbits. I don't see that happening and they only weigh 10-11 pounds.

Potatoes are astaple here and we consume even more since the economy went to heck.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Hey Squashnut, I went shopping tonight to see if I can stick to just 20 dollars for eats this week. Got me a crockpot of blackeyed peas and beef smoked sausage on as I type. I will post next week with how it goes and if I lose weight plus some recipes if I like what I come up with. No coffee as that is over budget and so was butter. I did get sugar and salt and pepper. One onion and 3 types of meat. Surplus store and sales are your friends!!


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

I am doing a raw diet, so we are not eating the meat. prep wise i store a lot of sprout seeds. they are good for a long while. I just sprouted some 5 year old mung bean sprouts. I also store a lot of wheat for wheat grass juice. Lots of freeze dried fruits and veggies, and my freezer is filled with nuts and dates. I also have traditional preps as well. I hope that I might be able to do my best to eat well, but i know that I would be happy to have beans in a starvation scenario and lets face it Theres no way i can afford to do all freeze dried fruits and vegies etc.


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## RebelDigger (Aug 5, 2010)

Contrary to popular belief, prehistoric man did not subsist mainly on meat. In the hunter gatherer world, about 90% of the calories came from the vegetation foods the women gathered. Meat was harder to come by and it was a gorge til you drop party when the men brought back a kill. At Dust Cave, a dig I was on once in a slough in Alabama, we were finding very few bones from big game but a lot, and I mean a lot, of periwinkle shells were they made soup of the the little buggers. God I got tired of plotting those things on the site map! We also found a lot of bones from small animals such as turkey, rabbit, dog, etc. I worked in several proveniances from the front of the cave all the way to the back that summer and found one deer bone, I believe there were very few found at all and this site spanned several thousand years worth of occupancy in late fall. It was an early Archaic site, 10,400 years before present + or - 400 years.

The biggest problem with our health and diets in the modern world is that our bodies are hard wired to exist on lots of fresh fruits and vegtables with the occasional splurge of meat and of course a bit of fat. That is why both folks who are vegetarian as well as folks who eat an excessive amount of meat have health issues so often, inbalance in the way Mother Nature intended us to eat. Also, the women who did the gathering were very good at finding root foods so eat those taters, they are on the list!


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

How about stocking pemmican? There are several companies online that ship by the box or it's not hard to make yourself.


And make allowances for food items that are purely for survival and not for a lifestyle. Put back a few things that would stretch everything or could be traded with even if you don't currently eat them.

And maybe prep for a bit of Weston Price type foods where you do alot of fermenting and soaking of grains/veggies/dairy to make them more in line with how we used to eat them in recent history.


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## Whydah (Jun 27, 2011)

A "paleo" diet? What will folks come up with next... a monkey diet? No offense to anyone, so don't anyone take it as such.

Lets be realistic, here. In the type scenario that is typically discussed, I think all of us, when pushed to the limit, will eat anything and everything that doesn't eat us, special diets be ----ed.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

Whydah said:


> A "paleo" diet? What will folks come up with next... a monkey diet?


You need to get out more. The modern paleo diet has been around since at least the 1970's.


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## Wintersong Farm (Aug 22, 2007)

To use a phrase from another current topic, modern diets don't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem. In other words, the high cholesterol, blood pressure, etc is usually caused by not keeping fit and not burning up the calories you take in. Sustained, rigorous, and daily excercise will allow for a multitude of eating preferences.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

I just looked it up....
"popularly referred to as 'the caveman diet' "
didnt those folks live to twenty or so??
No thanks, Ill eat my potatoes.


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## Palmetto1 (Sep 15, 2009)

I have been doing the Peloe thing for almost two years. I have lost 45 lbs and all my numbers (good/bad cholesterol, blood pressure, etc) have gotten way better. My Dr was amazed.

I cheat some times but once you get into it it is really not hard. Drink water, eat lean meats, and lots of frruits and vegetables. I did amend the Lugume rule though. I eat beans of all sorts!

I have about 20 more lbs I want to get off and it is still coming off about a pound per week.

As far as prepping goes, if TSHTF any specialty diet is out the wiindow!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I like the research of Dr. Weston Price. In short: Minimize carbohydrates, maximize proteins and fats.

When I'm eating in that manner, I feel better and healthier. All the little aches and pains which normally plague me go away. Now you're not really required to eat no carbohydrates, but I limit them. For example, I skip the bread before the steak and afterwards I can have a piece of pie.

A prehistoric existence seemed to be a marginal one at best. I prefer to move up in the scale a few thousand years. If you look at the history of the world, it's a repeated cycle:

Civilizations which eat primarily grains are shorter and generally unhealthier than civilizations which predominately eat meat and dairy ... and the grain eaters eventually get CONQUERED by the meat eaters.

I can go back to an 8th century herding culture if I want to live well. I don't need to go back to 8000 BC.


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## TheMrs (Jun 11, 2008)

While we also prefer a Weston Price diet, we're currently on a special diet for our 6yo DS that's on the autism spectrum. While not identical, this diet has some similarities to the Paleo Diet. Based on that, here's the kinds of foods that I prefer to store:

Fats:
homemade lard and tallow
coconut oil
palm oil
olive oil (extra virgin and pure)

Meats:
home-canned chicken
store-bought canned salmon
homemade beef jerky
(We also raise our own rabbits and chickens.)

Vegetables:
We keep some store-bought canned vegetables, but prefer to have dehydrated vegetables. I've found a good selection at:
http://www.shelfreliance.com/

Fruits:
Again, we keep some store-bought canned fruit (like pineapple, pumpkin, and mandarin oranges), but prefer dried fruits like dates, figs, apricots, banana and apple chips, raisins. We also keep home-canned fruits like applesauce, peaches, and pears.

Nuts and Seeds:
We keep a supply of raw pumpkin and raw sunflower seeds that can be soaked and then dehydrated for use. We do purchase some natural peanut butter to keep on hand. (We don't keep a lot of nuts on hand because 4yo DD has a severe allergy, however we do have lots of nut trees on our property.) 

Sweeteners:
honey and maple syrup

Extras:
lots of spices and herbs (both culinary and medicinal)
vinegar (white and apple cider)
baking powder
baking soda
coconut flour
cocoa powder
shredded coconut
unflavored gelatin
homemade vanilla extract

In addition to all of this, I do keep additional foods that we don't consume now because of our dietary restrictions. I do continue to store white rice, wheat, oats, popcorn, beans of all kinds, refined white sugar, yeast, and even canned Spam. These foods we only intend to eat in an emergency situation.


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## Elffriend (Mar 2, 2003)

I don't eat Paleo, but I do eat low carb. I have for a little over 4 yrs. No bread, pasta, potatoes or rice. No sugar. Lots of different kinds of animal flesh and low carb veggies. My cholesterol and blood pressure are both excellent. Some people do see a total cholesterol rise within the first 6 months of eating this way, but it settles down after that and the composition of the cholesterol changes - more of the good kind and less of the bad.

For preps I stock a LOT of canned meat and fish and a fair amount of nuts. I'm thinking about adding some powdered eggs to the pantry. There's also canned veggies, mayo, oils and salad dressings.

For the rest of the family, who don't eat this way, I do stock carby food.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

beaglebiz said:


> I just looked it up....
> "popularly referred to as 'the caveman diet' "
> didnt those folks live to twenty or so??
> No thanks, Ill eat my potatoes.


LOL, they died because of accidents and trauma, not from their diets. We live longer because of modern emergency care are but die because of our diets. 60%+ of our illness are caused by diet.


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## gideonprime (Oct 17, 2007)

bee said:


> Paleo, were hunter/ gatherers..right? Are we sure they never gathered any grass seed heads?? just sayn'!


Sure they did. Wheat first and foremost. That was what started agriculture. 

Recognizing that these crops grew wild and could be collected year after year.

However, gathering them to eat when in season and while passing through is a far cry from settling in and storing foods for stagnant living.


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## Whydah (Jun 27, 2011)

Explorer said:


> You need to get out more. The modern paleo diet has been around since at least the 1970's.


I think you're right! I've never heard of this!


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## KimTN (Jan 16, 2007)

My husband does the Paleo diet. I try to provide for this the best I can, but most of my preps include stuff that is not on his diet. I told him that if a caveman was starving, I bet he would eat what I stored.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

For some the paleo diet ISN'T about losing weight. It's about not eating things that make them sick.

We all are from different regions of the world, many of which didn't eat grains and such until maybe 100 years ago. There is no one diet that suits everyone. Genetics impact your health and digestion strongly.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

Ernie said:


> For some the paleo diet ISN'T about losing weight. It's about not eating things that make them sick.
> 
> We all are from different regions of the world, many of which didn't eat grains and such until maybe 100 years ago. There is no one diet that suits everyone. Genetics impact your health and digestion strongly.


Also food allergies. I am allergic to soy and that really restricts my eating food prepared by others including all commercially prepared food.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Flax seed is something you can store for at least a year.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Heh. Eat it for a day or two and watch what happens to your digestive system.


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

Thank you for recognizing that "diets" aren't always for "FAD" or starving yourself thin and such. Like someone mentioned.. people are on diets for different reasons. Prepping against starvation would be silly if you were trying to maintain a lifestyle built around eating fad diets. Eating to keep your body functioning favorably would be a good reason to prep in accordance to specific diets. Lots more people are dying because of poor food choices they make.. not for good choices they made. 

I guess dehydrating would be a good method, and canning veggies and fruits is a good start. The thought of canning meat makes me a bit nauseous though....


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

RebelDigger said:


> Contrary to popular belief, prehistoric man did not subsist mainly on meat. In the hunter gatherer world, about 90% of the calories came from the vegetation foods the women gathered.


This is for the most part patently false. There may have been some cultures who lived this way part of the year, but most hunter gatherers relied heavily on meat. Bear in mind that very few lived in permanent settlements year round. As an example the Ojibwe people would generally have many main camps. They would have Maple Sugar camp, Fish camp, Garden camp, Rice camp, Hunting camp, and Winter camp. They managed their maples and Wild Rice to the point that these crops were more horticultural in nature rather than true gathering, including family ownership of trees and sections of the rice beds. If you were to do a dig at a Rice camp chances are you would find little evidence of meat eating. 

I've also noticed that the further north you go, the more that HG peoples relied on meat. By the time you get to the Arctic, they were on an almost 100% meat diet. Bear in mind also, that many Native American cultures were not hunter gathers, or not strictly so. Many tribes would stick to the river Valleys and garden during the summer, and after the crops were secured they would head to the plains to hunt Buffalo. Now folks from a main camp who go hunt Buffalo on the plains is going to dry the meat. They are not going to drag bones home with them so there will be little bone evidence left at the permanent camp of Buffalo hunting.


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## NewGround (Dec 19, 2010)

Prep what you eat, eat what you prep...

Many milk "problems" go away with real grass fed milk so I hear... I love milk and when I can get a cow I'll be having "real" milk again...


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

therunbunch said:


> I guess dehydrating would be a good method, and canning veggies and fruits is a good start. The thought of canning meat makes me a bit nauseous though....



Dried foods would also last longer and take less space. Ofcourse you need water for them and sometimes a cooking method. But jerky was a popular way to store meat for cooking later on... you just have to cook it a long time like in a stew and it will get decently tender, especially if you pound or break it into smaller pieces first.


Have you eaten or liked any sort of canned food with meat in it like soup or chili? You don't have to can plain meat in a big jar... you can make it into something that you would like to eat first. Soup can be thickend and turned into stew/casserole/pot pies/etc...


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

"Sunbutter" is a good prep for those with peanut and treenut allergies as they are made in a pn/tn free dedicated facility. Now if you have a severe soy allergy you *might* react as there is some cross contamination with soy per the company warning.

And since it's made from seeds and not legumes it might qualify for certain diets.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Ooh I know potatoes are "off" for some the diets... but as a prep maybe growing some "Oca" or "Yacon" or even sweet potatoes might be an alternative to the basic white potatoe. What about jerusalem artichokes?


Picking out some more ancient foods that haven't been changed in recent history might open up a few more options!


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

tinknal said:


> This is for the most part patently false. There may have been some cultures who lived this way part of the year, but most hunter gatherers relied heavily on meat. Bear in mind that very few lived in permanent settlements year round. As an example the Ojibwe people would generally have many main camps. They would have Maple Sugar camp, Fish camp, Garden camp, Rice camp, Hunting camp, and Winter camp. They managed their maples and Wild Rice to the point that these crops were more horticultural in nature rather than true gathering, including family ownership of trees and sections of the rice beds. If you were to do a dig at a Rice camp chances are you would find little evidence of meat eating.
> 
> I've also noticed that the further north you go, the more that HG peoples relied on meat. By the time you get to the Arctic, they were on an almost 100% meat diet. Bear in mind also, that many Native American cultures were not hunter gathers, or not strictly so. Many tribes would stick to the river Valleys and garden during the summer, and after the crops were secured they would head to the plains to hunt Buffalo. Now folks from a main camp who go hunt Buffalo on the plains is going to dry the meat. They are not going to drag bones home with them so there will be little bone evidence left at the permanent camp of Buffalo hunting.


The Sioux dried their buffalo in hunting camps. Three buffalo to make one buffaloes worth of Pemmican. Pemmican is a long tern storage item made from dried meat, fat and sometimes berries. The Sioux needed three buffalo to get sufficient fat to mix with the meat of the one buffalo. Of course, they ate on the other two while the meat was drying and being ground into a powder which was mixed with the fat.


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

I bought an artichoke today for the first time in my life.. have NEVER had it.. can't wait to try it! Hadn't thought of trying to grow any but we'll see how I like it.

I know this may vary by food, but how long does dehydrated stuff last? I assume you dry it then package it (sealer?).


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

Keep out moisture and it will last a long time. The Sioux Pemmican wrapped in raw hide and buried has been found 100 years later and was reportably eatable. I have eaten vacuum packed home dried veggies that were 5-6 years old in a soup and they were fine.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

Bugs.

I was under the impression the hunter gatherer's ate allot of bugs.

Native Americans definatley did.

Many cultures today still do.

Rat's, mice, snakes, and anything that basicly didn't kill you.

I think meat was a bigger part of their diet than the few deer bones found suggest. I suspect the very small bones were eaten.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

therunbunch said:


> I bought an artichoke today for the first time in my life.. have NEVER had it.. can't wait to try it! Hadn't thought of trying to grow any but we'll see how I like it.
> 
> I know this may vary by food, but how long does dehydrated stuff last? I assume you dry it then package it (sealer?).


Jeruselum artichoke is not the same as the artichoke you bought.
Jeruselum artichoke is a tuber that has a different type of starch in it, than potatoes. The starch is easily digested by diabetics.
I was given a few tubers a few years ago and planted just a tiny bit of them. Now we have them every year with out buying any new ones. We feed the stalks that kinda look like sunflower plants and any extra tubers to the rabbits. Most all live stock like them including my dogs.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

therunbunch said:


> I bought an artichoke today for the first time in my life.. have NEVER had it.. can't wait to try it! Hadn't thought of trying to grow any but we'll see how I like it.
> 
> I know this may vary by food, but how long does dehydrated stuff last? I assume you dry it then package it (sealer?).



You might have trouble growing artichokes in your location/zone unless you baby them as they like mild winters. But it's not impossible. They do take up alot of room though.


Properly stored dried foods can last years and even decades.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

As far as tubers, many Indians gathered arrowroot tubers. They are a starchy bulb that grows in the water and stores well, like potatoes.

I believe that some people call them Camus bulbs.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

A staple crop of southwest Indians was pine nuts. These also grow in Asia.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

There is the Camas prairie in central Idaho where the natives harvested the bulbs every year. They still grow there and produce a bulb about a inch around and also have a brilliant blue flower. I have eaten them in a soup, but don't recall any special flavor.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Basically, if you can grow it or kill it, you can eat it. We might all be on the paleo diet if TSHTF.


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

I don't know what kind of diet you call it but I'm having to go the way of no dairy, no sugar or simple carbs, no gluten and such because of increasingly worse fibromyalgia. I've heard a lot about the Weston Price diet and thought about buying the book Nourishing Traditions. Is it a good one? Any other suggestions?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I highly recommend the book "Nourishing Traditions" as well as "Good Calories, Bad Calories". Instead of doing the usual "sugar is bad for you" routine that most nutrition books do, they actually go into the science of what happens in the body when certain foods are ingested.

Once you know how that works, then it's much easier to regulate your own diet custom to your needs. Which means I don't have to face a bleak existence without pie.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

whiskeylivewire said:


> I don't know what kind of diet you call it but I'm having to go the way of no dairy, no sugar or simple carbs, no gluten and such because of increasingly worse fibromyalgia. I've heard a lot about the Weston Price diet and thought about buying the book Nourishing Traditions. Is it a good one? Any other suggestions?



The book is pretty good. I am on my second copy since I apparently loved my first one too "much". LOL

And yep "lowcarb/no-low sugar" diets DO help the fibro a ton! Sugar is a big flare up trigger in this house!


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

Thanks, I'll have to get those books next time I place an Amazon order


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Ernie said:


> For some the paleo diet ISN'T about losing weight. It's about not eating things that make them sick.
> 
> We all are from different regions of the world, many of which didn't eat grains and such until maybe 100 years ago. There is no one diet that suits everyone. Genetics impact your health and digestion strongly.


Ernie, what ethnic groups can you think of that would not have eaten grains? All I can think of are eskimo.


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## mommathea (May 27, 2009)

I think that there has been a huge generalization in the thought of grain eating. For one, the amount of grain eaten. How much grain would early civilizations be able to cultivate and grow vs. how much it could feed. And second. They ate grains a lot fresher than today's society does.
No boxes of pasta sitting for months/years, no rolled oats, bread sitting at the supermarket, granola bars for the taking.

It takes quite a bit of grunt work to make grains into flours. What was eaten was flat breads, and those were used as utensles to bring food to the mouth - rather than them being the main course. 

What they had were small amounts of grain per person that was freshly ground or cracked for their use. 
Today we grab a box of cereal and wash it down with a side of toast, then go on to have a sandwich and pretzels for lunch, then a big spaghetti dinner complete with cheesy garlic bread. 
It used to be stews, roasted animals, veggies, fruit, hard cheeses and a piece of flat bread to help scoop it up with.

Right now we'r transitioning to a primal/paleo type way of eating. Primal is the more natural version of Atkins, where paleo would be considered more natural South Beach.

We've eaten this way before any my joint pains went away, I didn't feel like was living in a fog, more energy ect...


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

I am interested in Westen Price and the paleo diet but I have my fears and reservations.

I was vegetarian for ten years, and during that time I was breifly vegan. I have to tell you, from my experience those diets can kill you. I was so weak by the end of that ten year period that I could feel my body starving. I went out and got some roast beef, for the first time in a decade and that brought my health back.

Maybe it is because I am of celtic blood that I cant eat a vegetarian diet. I don't know. Indians in India seem to have no trouble being vegetarian. Europians use to eat a lot of wolly mammaths (seriously, we did), wild bore, bison, herbs, berries, roots, greens, and fish.

I am not sure about this no-starch thing in the paleo diet. Didn't cat tails grow back then? Cat tail roots were eaten for starch.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

The traditional Masai (Maasai) diet consists of blood, milk, fat, honey and tree bark. Nowadays this is changing to an imported diet.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/293306-masai-tribe-diet/#ixzz1SqkPbNsN


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Mom, I agree, i think the eating of grain would have been small in scale, but then, everything was pretty small in scale, the tribes, the families, the amount of personal possesion, personal dwellings, the amount of available food, the area of ground people could travel, and everything except dried foods were seasonal. They didn't eat fresh strawberries from chillie while they were sitting way up in the canadian winter.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Explorer, I saw that tribe on Bizzare foods once, I think.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Some of you guys are mentioning issues with milk. Do you get an itching in the ear and joint pain from milk and cheese? I do.

Are any of you Hypoglycemic or reactive hypglycemic? I have have reactive hypoglycemia and the diet that is recomended for my condition is a diet close ot the paleo diet.

Do you think your eye color could tell you what period-diet, paleo, neolithic, etc, you should eat? I have heard that the oldest eye color is brown, then blue, but green is a farely recent color.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

NamasteMama said:


> LOL, they died because of accidents and trauma, not from their diets. We live longer because of modern emergency care are but die because of our diets. 60%+ of our illness are caused by diet.


I agree. They found bones from ancient europians and they covered in evidence of breaks and trauma. Hunting use to be really hard and dangerous work, because it was done on foot with short range weapons. The hunters would get kicked and rammed by their prey. It wasn't till recently, when guns and horses came along, that hunting got easier and safer.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

I am doubtful that paleo humans ate mostly meat. There is no way that they could pig out on meat all year round like the myths and images you see in movies and cartoons. There is just not that much meat there to do that. Whatever meat that was harvested in large amounts, when each animal was in season, was stored for the rest of the year and stretched as far as it could go. If you take a tribe of 100 people and they take down as many animals as they can, and then they split that meat with each family, and each family has to devide that meat for each of it's members and it's dogs (the dogs needed to eat also, and the family and the tribe couldn't survive very well with out their k-9 friends) and then you break that bounty up in rations for the year....that doesnt leave with you a lot of meat to feast on, and that is when game is at it's peak, imagine what it it is like in the winter when game is low in numbers.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

You should read the book "Stone-Age Economics", City Bound.

A group of sociologists followed around a bunch of different paleolithic tribes in the 1970's and recorded their diets, how much time they spent meeting their basic needs, etc. The results would surprise you. They generally eat better and spend more time with their families than you and I do.


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

CBound, There is no Vit B12 in plant foods (except comfrey), and that's one of the reason's why vegans and vegetarians run into trouble with these diets. I was vegetarian for years, but I already had (was born with) pernicious anemia (a lack of the ability to absorb Vit B12 from eating animal products), and take a shot of B12 once a month. It works. Remember folks if you're mostly vegtarian, to please take the "sublingual" B12 tablets, (now available cheaply at big box stores). The other B12s are destroyed in the gut. Also, about diets on the great Indian Continent; the only care most states provide there for the elderly (no soc sec, no medicare) is one B12 shot per year. People line up for days in Uttar Pradesh, etc. Happy and healthy eating! ldc


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

City Bound said:


> I agree. They found bones from ancient europians and they covered in evidence of breaks and trauma. Hunting use to be really hard and dangerous work, because it was done on foot with short range weapons. The hunters would get kicked and rammed by their prey. It wasn't till recently, when guns and horses came along, that hunting got easier and safer.


Did you see that TV commercial depicting Ernie playing an ancient ancestor attacking a auroch with his trusty hand made knife?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Explorer said:


> Did you see that TV commercial depicting Ernie playing an ancient ancestor attacking a auroch with his trusty hand made knife?


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Ernie said:


> You should read the book "Stone-Age Economics", City Bound.
> 
> A group of sociologists followed around a bunch of different paleolithic tribes in the 1970's and recorded their diets, how much time they spent meeting their basic needs, etc. The results would surprise you. They generally eat better and spend more time with their families than you and I do.


Ernie, I was coming to that conclusion also from watching national geographic shows on tribal living. I was suprised how full their lives were.

I will check out the book, thank you for telling me about it.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

hahah captain caveman, I loved that guy. Captain caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave MAN!!!!!

Then he had son and it was: Captain CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVE MAN!!!!!!! and Son!


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Explorer said:


> Did you see that TV commercial depicting Ernie playing an ancient ancestor attacking a auroch with his trusty hand made knife?


Did this really happen , or is it a joke?


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

ldc said:


> CBound, There is no Vit B12 in plant foods (except comfrey), and that's one of the reason's why vegans and vegetarians run into trouble with these diets. I was vegetarian for years, but I already had (was born with) pernicious anemia (a lack of the ability to absorb Vit B12 from eating animal products), and take a shot of B12 once a month. It works. Remember folks if you're mostly vegtarian, to please take the "sublingual" B12 tablets, (now available cheaply at big box stores). The other B12s are destroyed in the gut. Also, about diets on the great Indian Continent; the only care most states provide there for the elderly (no soc sec, no medicare) is one B12 shot per year. People line up for days in Uttar Pradesh, etc. Happy and healthy eating! ldc


maybe that was it, but wow, I will never go back to being veggie again. my diet is more veggie based now though. I am trying to do what most people in the world do, veggies are the main meal and meat is added to it, rather then eat the american meal where meat is the main meal and vegg is the side.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

City Bound said:


> Did this really happen , or is it a joke?


It was a commercial on TV last night. Caveman type attacking a large cow like animal with a flint knife (for food). The actor looked very similar to Ernie and I thought did a good job. The bull playing the auroch, not so much.

PS: The commercial really happened.


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## mommathea (May 27, 2009)

City Bound said:


> maybe that was it, but wow, I will never go back to being veggie again. my diet is more veggie based now though. I am trying to do what most people in the world do, veggies are the main meal and meat is added to it, rather then eat the american meal where meat is the main meal and vegg is the side.


I have to disagree with the main course of a SAD diet being meat. While most SAD main courses are made up around meat, I do not believe that meat is the 'main' course. I think it is safe to say that the carbs -bread, potatoes, starchy veggies such as corn and peas, and noodles (all of these foods in their varying presentations is what makes up the general diet of the American people.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

City Bound said:


> I am doubtful that paleo humans ate mostly meat. There is no way that they could pig out on meat all year round like the myths and images you see in movies and cartoons. There is just not that much meat there to do that. Whatever meat that was harvested in large amounts, when each animal was in season, was stored for the rest of the year and stretched as far as it could go. If you take a tribe of 100 people and they take down as many animals as they can, and then they split that meat with each family, and each family has to devide that meat for each of it's members and it's dogs (the dogs needed to eat also, and the family and the tribe couldn't survive very well with out their k-9 friends) and then you break that bounty up in rations for the year....that doesnt leave with you a lot of meat to feast on, and that is when game is at it's peak, imagine what it it is like in the winter when game is low in numbers.


To start with, most Paleo groups were smaller than 100 individuals. Most of the earlier groups lived in regions where there were huge herds of migrating mammals, or in coastal areas teeming with sea life. There are sites where there is evidence of over 200 bison at a time being driven over a cliff. The northern peoples hunted mega fauna, including mammoth. Huge animals that yeilded incredible amounts of meat, hide, and fat. Mesolithic longhouses have been found in the northern steppes constructed entirely of mammoth bones. These groups were small and mobile. Often a small group would occupy an area of tens of thousands of square miles. Their birthrates were low because they did not have the incentive to produce large families like later agricultural societies did. 

These folks created art, music, medicine, language, religion, and culture.

It wasn't until folks started farming that we created war, class divisions, racial divisions, politics, and created the system that allowed plague, pestilence, and mass famines.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Paleo people lived to be what? 20 - 25? 30 would have been extreme old age.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

mnn2501 said:


> Paleo people lived to be what? 20 - 25? 30 would have been extreme old age.


No. Neanderthal had a life expectancy of around 40 years, but they were a different species than us. Early H. Sapiens had a life expectancy that was very similar to our own, excepting the last 100 years in industrial nations. Many of them lived to old age. In fact, what sociologists call the "dirty old man effect", where older paleo men mated with younger women has led to longer life expectancies today. Theory being that longer lived individuals spread their genes through the population. Makes sense in an evolutionary sense.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

eating to much meat and too much fat would kill me. I seriously CANNOT digest it and cannot absorb the nutrients I need from a lot of foods,even healthy foods. So I try to prep with that in mind and try to 'get the most bang' out of the food I consume. Empty calorie type foods litterally make me very sick. A gram too much fat makes me very very sick. The caveman diet is NOT for me lol. Once in a while I forget this fact and eat something I shouldn't and pay the price, sometimes for days. I have to lean towards vegetarianisem more but I do have a hard time getting enough protein in, so I do eat rabbit (very high protein, very low in fat) which is like the perfect meat for me. I can only keep so many it my little shed though and still be kind to them so it's never enough, really.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

NickieL said:


> eating to much meat and too much fat would kill me. I seriously CANNOT digest it and cannot absorb the nutrients I need from a lot of foods,even healthy foods. So I try to prep with that in mind and try to 'get the most bang' out of the food I consume. Empty calorie type foods litterally make me very sick. A gram too much fat makes me very very sick. The caveman diet is NOT for me lol. Once in a while I forget this fact and eat something I shouldn't and pay the price, sometimes for days. I have to lean towards vegetarianisem more but I do have a hard time getting enough protein in, so I do eat rabbit (very high protein, very low in fat) which is like the perfect meat for me. I can only keep so many it my little shed though and still be kind to them so it's never enough, really.


Nickie when I saw your picture I figured you were more of a vegetarian, you sort of have that look to you. I see you getting more of your protien from nuts, and if you eat any meat at all it would be fish. All that may sound strange but that was the impression I got from your pic, you looked like you have a very gentle digestive system and sensitive nerves. I would guess that you were Finnish, ethicly.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

tinknal said:


> To start with, most Paleo groups were smaller than 100 individuals. Most of the earlier groups lived in regions where there were huge herds of migrating mammals, or in coastal areas teeming with sea life. There are sites where there is evidence of over 200 bison at a time being driven over a cliff. The northern peoples hunted mega fauna, including mammoth. Huge animals that yeilded incredible amounts of meat, hide, and fat. Mesolithic longhouses have been found in the northern steppes constructed entirely of mammoth bones. These groups were small and mobile. Often a small group would occupy an area of tens of thousands of square miles. Their birthrates were low because they did not have the incentive to produce large families like later agricultural societies did.
> 
> These folks created art, music, medicine, language, religion, and culture.
> 
> It wasn't until folks started farming that we created war, class divisions, racial divisions, politics, and created the system that allowed plague, pestilence, and mass famines.


Tink, you had me until you mentioned war. Tribes fought over hunting ground all the time. if you couldn't defend them, you lost them.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

reading about the paleo diet, it was mentioned that alcohol within this diet was still in debate. I saw a show on a tribe in africa who basicly still lived paleo and they made honey wine, but only for special occasions.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

City Bound said:


> Nickie when I saw your picture I figured you were more of a vegetarian, you sort of have that look to you. I see you getting more of your protien from nuts, and if you eat any meat at all it would be fish. All that may sound strange but that was the impression I got from your pic, you looked like you have a very gentle digestive system and sensitive nerves. I would guess that you were Finnish, ethicly.


Irish, actually and my pancreas doesn't function very well, which is why I have issues absorbing nutrients, etc. My body is literally always in starvation mode even with the weight I have on...doesn't make sense but it makes "losing weight" very very difficult, nearly impossible as the bod tries to hang on to everything it can get.:bash:


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

City Bound said:


> Tink, you had me until you mentioned war. Tribes fought over hunting ground all the time. if you couldn't defend them, you lost them.


There may have been skirmishes, but there is little or no archeological evidence of this, at least from earlier Paleos. Think about the early cave paintings, none of them ever depicted any kind of warfare. Even then, a battle would have been a war. There is much evidence of warfare between Native Americans, but most of the evidence of this was in the period after European intrusion, which caused great disruption in the natural order of things, and also remember that very few Indians were strictly hunter gatherers. Most of them were in the transition from HG societies to horticultural societies when the Europeans arrived. The societies in Mexico, Central America, and Northern South America had already made the transition to agriculture, and Chokio (I know I'm spelling this wrong) existed in the central portion of what is now the US. More warfare existed between HG societies and agricultural societies than between different HG societies.

The anthropological evidence shows that nutrition was vastly better among hunter gatherers than in parallel agricultural societies, but agricultural societies also had greater population growth and as one of my anthro Proffs said " 10 weak farmers can still overcome 1 strong cave man".


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Tink, you may like the book Our Space Ship Earth. The auther makes the same point. He shows how populations boomed with advancements in fuel and food consumption, they breed past the limits of their fuel and food and disease, war, and social decay take hold. He goes from the paleolithic time forward. He makes a good argument.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

There is also a lot of evidence that societies that were strongly horticultural reverted back to hunter gatherer societies as well. Which is always an interesting phenomenon for me to study ... imagine the premise: if agriculture is so great then why would any civilization ever intentionally walk away from it?


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

Ernie said:


> There is also a lot of evidence that societies that were strongly horticultural reverted back to hunter gatherer societies as well. Which is always an interesting phenomenon for me to study ... imagine the premise: if agriculture is so great then why would any civilization ever intentionally walk away from it?


The ones I have studied the life style reversal generally has been due to lack of water. There have been documented several long periods of drought here in the West, also in the Indo area of Asia.

As a side note past paleo/farmer type societies had a fairly high birth rate, but a low survival rate for children. This is true of the early Greek and Roman societies also right up to the 19 century when modern medicine came along. Look at some countries in central Africa today and the same thing is true.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Ernie said:


> There is also a lot of evidence that societies that were strongly horticultural reverted back to hunter gatherer societies as well. Which is always an interesting phenomenon for me to study ... imagine the premise: if agriculture is so great then why would any civilization ever intentionally walk away from it?


If you haven't already read it I would suggest reading "The Yanomamo" by Napoleon Chagnon.

The Yanomamo are a Horticultural/ Hunter society in the Orinoco basin in South America. They are classified as a "Parinoid" society. If you read the book you will understand why. Very interesting book.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Ernie said:


> There is also a lot of evidence that societies that were strongly horticultural reverted back to hunter gatherer societies as well. Which is always an interesting phenomenon for me to study ... imagine the premise: if agriculture is so great then why would any civilization ever intentionally walk away from it?


Could happen because of outside pressure. An enemy can always find you and destroy your economy if you are tied to a fixed location. If you hunt and gather you are more mobile, and do not have a fixed food source.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Most of the civilizations we know about which have done this were in South America. Poor agricultural methods that destroyed the soil fertility are normally blamed as the principal culprits. 

More civilizations have fallen because of the plow than the sword. I often wonder if each generation in each civilization is given at least one Forerunner to warn them about such things.


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## Shoshana (Nov 17, 2011)

mnn2501 said:


> Paleo people lived to be what? 20 - 25? 30 would have been extreme old age.


Here's some information that should interest people, and maybe surprise a lot of folks: 

Paleoliths existed for 2 million years as hunter-gatherers, prior to advent of agriculture and introduction of grains, legumes (you know, those fun foods that make you toot!), and dairy into diet.

Paleoliths were: 
As tall or taller than modern man, and had a large pelvic inlet , a.k.a. birth canal (signs of good nutrition). 
Fitness level on par with modern athletes.
Free of modern disease: obesity, cancer, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, autism, autoimmune syndromes, neurodegeneration, dental problems, bone deformities, infertility, etc. 
Remarkably low infant mortality rate, despite lack of modern medicine.
No near-sightedness or acne. 

The impression is that they lived short, brutish lives. Here are the facts:
Paleoliths average lifespan was 38 years. 
Paleoliths died mostly from events related to hunting accidents or acute infectious disease (lack of antibiotics), not chronic disease. 
Despite lack of modern medicine, greater than 10% of the population lived into their 60s. 
Paleoliths only âworkedâ about 15 hours a week; the remainder of their time was spent resting or visiting family. 


A look at Neolithic and subsequent peoples: 
Neoliths existed during the advent of agriculture and introduction of grains, legumes, and dairy into diet. Keep in mind that grains and legumes were domesticated about 10,000 years ago, but they werenât introduced to Europe and the Americas until a couple hundred years ago. 

Neoliths: 
Lost an average of 6 inches in height, and the pelvic inlet narrowed (and infant mortality skyrocketed). 
Modern diseases became common: obesity, cancer, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, neurodegeneration , dental problems, bone deformities, infertility, etc. Since government regulation of diet and agriculture in the last century, autism, obesity, and autoimmune disorder incidence have skyrocketed to epidemic levels.
Fitness level dropped off, as compared to Paleoliths.
Suffered a high infant mortality rate.
Vision problems and acne became problematic. 

Most folks think that Neoliths didn't lead short, brutish lives. Here's the skinny on THAT:
A Neoliths average lifespan was 38-40 years, a gain of just two years over their Paleolithic predecessors. 
Neoliths died from chronic disease, warfare, and infectious disease linked to living in larger populations and with domesticated animals, just as we do today. 
Prior to the advent of modern medicine (1928), only 8% of the population lived into their 60s, A 20% DROP. 


And here comes the kicker, let's check out modern man:
Despite being 99.9% genetically the same as our Paleolithic ancestors, our pelvic inlet has yet to recover to the width found in Paleoliths.
OUR AVERAGE LIFESPAN REMAINED AT 38-40 yrs (men-women) UNTIL 1928 (!!!), when Alexander Fleming discovered penicillin. Because we can now treat infection, our average lifespan has increased to age 72 in a period of just 50 years.

The Paleo Diet is built around the principal that by adopting the diet we were genetically designed to consume, we can enjoy longevity as a benefit of modern medicine; restore energy, health, vitality, and fitness; reduce chronic pain; and avoid disease. This diet cured my child's autism, and benefitted the rest of tremendously. We will never, ever go back to eating SAD.

Warm regards,
~Shoshana


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Shoshana said:


> Here's some information that should interest people, and maybe surprise a lot of folks:
> 
> Paleoliths existed for 2 million years as hunter-gatherers, prior to advent of agriculture and introduction of grains, legumes (you know, those fun foods that make you toot!), and dairy into diet.
> 
> ...


Wow, you dug deep for your first post!

Very good info BTW.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Ernie said:


> They probably did, but the effort involved would have equaled out any downsides.
> 
> My wife explained to me what the Paleo diet thing is all about. No thanks! I can do without grains, but not without taters.


Sweet potatoes are allowed and some allow real potatoes. It has to do with how much a potato spikes your blood sugar. Some people can handle potatoes and others can't. One of Paleo's advantages is it helps control blood sugar.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Wintersong Farm said:


> To use a phrase from another current topic, modern diets don't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem. In other words, the high cholesterol, blood pressure, etc is usually caused by not keeping fit and not burning up the calories you take in. Sustained, rigorous, and daily excercise will allow for a multitude of eating preferences.


Now if there was just some science to back that up!


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