# Study: Weed Makes You Stupid



## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

The title probably should say "Stupider" because you have to be pretty stupid to use drugs.

Excerpt:
--------------------
A recent study shows that not only does smoking pot impair numerous mental functions of the user, but these effects can linger for weeks after use has stopped.

What it found was that, every time someone gets high, they can be dumber for weeks. Hardest hit was the ability to learn from what one hears and to remember things. So, for example, if you told your drummer to be at your house for rehearsal on Thursday night, not only would he have trouble understanding what that meant, he would probably forget it even if he did.

Also particularly affected is the stoner’s ability to focus or pay attention and to process information.

Smaller deficits were also recorded for executive functioning, decision-making, inhibitory processes, and flexibility.

“Although acute intoxication can last several hours, research has revealed that THC is a fat-soluble compound that may be stored in body fat and, thus, gradually released into the bloodstream for months,” say the scientists. “Indeed, studies have shown impaired cognition that persists beyond the acute intoxication period in both adult and adolescent cannabis users,” they write. The more heavy the use, the more pronounced the effects, but even someone who only smokes weed once every week or two could still be consistently impaired.

And not only does pot make people stupid, but it can also make them crazy. This is particularly true among heavy users and younger users whose brains are still forming. Narcanon notes that chronic use of today’s super-jacked weed can induce panic attacks, paranoia, wild mood swings, fragmented thoughts, depersonalization (losing one’s sense of identity), and straight-up psychosis. A 2017 study published in the journal Neuropharmacology ties youthful marijuana use to increased onset of severe mental illnesses:

--------------------

The article.

The study.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Anyone who lived through the 70's could have told them that.


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

PS: The libertarian in me makes me feel like folks should be allowed to do whatever they wish---and I'd be OK with legalizing ALL drugs if misuse didn't adversely impact others, including tax payers who have to foot the bill for treatment, welfare for non-productive drug users, etc.

The same can be said for alcohol.

If you ever lived with a drug user or alcoholic family member you know what I mean.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I know a few that would not be around if they could use all the drugs they want, any time they could get them. I've been to funerals for people who were able to get all the drugs they wanted.


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## Snowfan (Nov 6, 2011)

I don't need no drugs to make me stupid. Mine comes naturally.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

There are some people that seem to function better with it in their system. They need to be dumbed down a little. Brain going too many directions at the same time, so it allows them to focus. I think they need to study a lot more, because obviously it effects different people in different ways, no different than a lot of things.

And there are also many variations in the plant itself. The focus in selective breeding has driven much higher THC levels in relation to CBD levels. There are multiple species involved, with a multitude of hybrids, all with their own chemical signature. Beyond THC and CBD there are all kinds of terpenes and various other compounds that all effect the brain in different ways, sometimes even cancelling out each other. Any study would have to compare the effects of the multitude of different compounds at play. The strain called Gorrilla Glue should make you stupid for a month, because that is what it is advertised to do, should not be surprising. Would the same test performed on a mild Sativa strain have the same results?

There are probably compounds within it that could replace many drugs with much better results, glad to see studies being done.Hopefully more to come in the context of isolating and understanding different compounds instead of beating the same old drugs are bad drum.

It is important to remember this plant's history in the slave trade. It made for nice complacent slaves, who didn't try to escape, and weren't prone to violence. Transformed an entire continent and allowed for easier conquest. When training warriors to protect you herds turns into deep discussions about what a cloud looks like, you have problems.There are definitely ramifications for society. 

I think white collar professionals that developed a taste for cannabis while at college are aware of the brain clouding capabilities, and probably know when to back off, or what flavor to choose for what social engagement they are taking part in. I think that a highschool kid, or someone living in the inner city might have more difficulty not seeking a constant means of escape with damaging effects. No different than alcohol, where you have people buying an expensive bottle of wine to pair with an entree, while someone else buys a less expensive bottle of wine and curls up in a storm drain to wash away the pain. It's all about how much of what and how often and how long in between.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Have one big pot smoker as an immediate family member. He basically abandoned his two kids after getting divorced. He seemed extremely self-centered with this new persona. He smoked a lot.

Because of what I observed, I stayed far from the stuff.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Cannabis is a plant, not a drug.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

My friend/part time employee understandably uses cannabis to control anxiety. He is a nice dude, but his memory is absolutely impaired.

(I have lived a sheltered life. He is the first person that I know who is a daily user.)


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

NRA_guy said:


> The title probably should say "Stupider" because you have to be pretty stupid to use drugs.
> 
> Excerpt:
> --------------------
> ...


I can find studies that will say the exact opposite.




MichaelZ said:


> Have one big pot smoker as an immediate family member. He basically abandoned his two kids after getting divorced. He seemed extremely self-centered with this new persona. He smoked a lot.
> 
> Because of what I observed, I stayed far from the stuff.



I think some folks are putting way too much emphasis on this plant. It's the person. Not the weed. Some people just suck.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Using something to escape something, or replace something never ends well. Drugs, sex gambling, a new car, doesn't matter. You can sometimes enhance, but never escape or replace. You might remember a time that something was enhanced, but you replace or escape. You can't recreate a time. 

You go to a party. The real thing here is social interaction. Drinking might make you more engaging, might weaken some inhibitions and get you to socialize better, thereby enhancing the activity. If you go to a party to get wasted, you aren't enhancing the activity for anyone. If you drink to recreate the fun you were having at a party, you won't be successful. You are only replacing the social interaction with alcohol. At some point, you might drink to escape the reality that you are an alcoholic that people tend to steer clear of, even if you were sober long enough, or had a license to drive to a place that you could socially interact with other humans, not that you would even socially interact because it would interfere with getting wasted.

Substance abuse isn't about a substance, it works interchangeably with all of them.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

barnbilder said:


> Using something to escape something, or replace something never ends well...
> ...Substance abuse isn't about a substance, it works interchangeably with all of them.


Never met anyone who uses cannabis for these "after school special" reasons. Sometimes there is no deeply rooted psychological reason. They do it because they enjoy it.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> My friend/part time employee understandably uses cannabis to control anxiety. He is a nice dude, but his memory is absolutely impaired.
> 
> (I have lived a sheltered life. He is the first person that I know who is a daily user.)


Somewhere in that plant is a compound that controls his anxiety. It is mixed in with other compounds that decrease his motor skills and short term memory. There might be some mixed in that actually cause anxiety. And they probably all metabolize at different rates. That is one of the annoying things about the cannabis plant. It would be hard enough to understand without it being a controlled substance. And it does not breed true. It's like an apple. Only recently have people been able to propagate it in a controlled environment for any length of time, so that they could develop a strain and propagate it by cloning. Possibly by breeding alone, they could come up with an anti anxiety, decreased brain fog strain that could be readily available and reliably obtained. Your friend probably hit upon the perfect blend at some point, and clings to the belief that it is out there and it helped him, but keeps trying to find it again with substances that have the wrong blend of those compounds or the wrong concentrations of those compounds. Cannabis culture is setting about where apples were in the 1600s. Too random to make a good pie, so we will just make hard cider out of all of them and sell booze.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

kinderfeld said:


> Never met anyone who uses cannabis for these "after school special" reasons. Some times there is no deeply rooted psychological reason. They do it because they enjoy it.


There lies the crux of substance abuse. We enjoyed it once. It brings joy. That logical fallacy has led many a soul down a road to despair, and not just related to substances.


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## Digitalis (Aug 20, 2021)




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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I knew several people who smoked it to escape from life or because they liked the trip. Many went on to do harder drugs. I saw very intelligent people get all stupid and become incapable of paying attention in school. It was quite popular where I went to high school.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

barnbilder said:


> That logical fallacy has led many a soul down a road to despair,


Never heard of cannabis use leading anyone down a road of despair.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> I knew several people who smoked it to escape from life or because they liked the trip.


It's not LSD. It doesn't cause people to "trip".



Danaus29 said:


> Many went on to do harder drugs.


They made poor choices.



Danaus29 said:


> I saw very intelligent people get all stupid and become incapable of paying attention in school.


Shouldn't have gone to school stoned.

Sounds like these people apparently had a lack of discipline.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

I know people who smoke recreationally. I also know people who drink recreationally. I'd much rather be around the smokers. They're more interesting to talk to and less likely to just randomly pop someone in the face.

Anecdotal preferences if we're having to choose one or the other.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

kinderfeld said:


> It's not LSD. It doesn't cause people to "trip".
> 
> 
> They made poor choices.
> ...


They called it a trip. Of course they made poor choices, they were stoned. They weren't stoned at school (at least I don't think so). They were in a tizzy about the school day being too long and how they couldn't wait to get home and get stoned.

Obviously you have never known someone with an addiction. The hardest time is the time between coming off a high and waiting for the next one. All they think about is the next hit, drink, snort, etc.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Pot smokers are more mellow than drinkers. Drinkers tend to be quite nasty. All the stoners I have been around love everyone. I prefered to hang around with the stoners. They were pleasant and fun to talk to.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> They called it a trip. Of course they made poor choices, they were stoned. They weren't stoned at school (at least I don't think so). They were in a tizzy about the school day being too long and how they couldn't wait to get home and get stoned.


If they called it a trip...maybe they were doing something else as opposed to smoking weed exclusively.



Danaus29 said:


> Obviously you have never known someone with an addiction.


Plenty actually. And none of them were "addicted" to weed. Not saying it can't happen. 



Danaus29 said:


> The hardest time is the time between coming off a high and waiting for the next one. All they think about is the next hit, drink, snort, etc.


That's the difference between pot and hard drugs and/or alcohol. Its use doesn't ruin peoples' lives. The vast majority of users don't have this experience. Those who do apparently suffer from other unrelated issues and character flaws.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The ones I knew were teenagers. That in and of itself is a character flaw. I didn't pay attention to them after I escaped that H-hole.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> Of course they made poor choices, they were stoned.


Being stoned didn't cause their poor choices.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

kinderfeld said:


> Being stoned didn't cause their poor choices.


Does being stoned help one make good choices?


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

kinderfeld said:


> Being stoned didn't cause their poor choices.


Don't have to be stoned 
Noodle is fried long after that


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> Does being stoned help one make good choices?


I keep seeing posts (in a different forum on this topic) where people cite some person who did well even though he was a pot smoker.

I'm thinking, "OK. He did well. But how much better would he have done if he had not smoked pot?"

(Funny, they never cite Bill Clinton as an example. I guess because he didn't inhale.)


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> Does being stoned help one make good choices?


Personally, I don't think it's helpful, nor a hindrance. Do people make better choices without it? Doesn't seem that way.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

NRA_guy said:


> I keep seeing posts (in a different forum on this topic) where people cite some person who did well even though he was a pot smoker.
> 
> I'm thinking, "OK. He did well. But how much better would he have done if he had not smoked pot?"


And I'm thinking...who's to say it was a factor at all?



NRA_guy said:


> (Funny, they never cite Bill Clinton as an example. I guess because he didn't inhale.)


People tend to look to more recent examples. I think Elon Musk and Joe Rogan come to mind. They both seem to be doing O.K.


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## gilleyb1958 (Dec 26, 2021)

Staunch opposition to this is counterproductive in my opinion.
I don't do it because I don't like it. I do know it can be beneficial to some people.
Anything can be abused.
When I heard John Denver took a header into the ocean in his airplane didn't surprise me a bit.
Should have stayed off his rocky mountain high a little longer.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Elevenpoint said:


> Don't have to be stoned
> Noodle is fried long after that


That's not how it works.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I agree completely that there are useful compounds in marijuana. I have been a supporter of research into the medicinal aspect of the plant for years.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> I agree completely that there are useful compounds in marijuana. I have been a supporter of research into the medicinal aspect of the plant for years.


Me too. As well as legalization.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I drive the same roads as too many users now. I should not be smelling pot smoke from a car that has just passed me in a no passing zone with cars coming the other direction. I'm not saying the driver was competent without the pot, but it sure isn't helping.


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## exodus (Jun 18, 2012)

Micro dosing psilocybin, has great positive effects on many people.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Any addict can give you a reason why his drug of choice doesn't harm anyone, and is safe to use. If they all lived in a cave far from other people that would be true. The problem is, they don't.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

kinderfeld said:


> That's not how it works.


From a cognitive standpoint that is exactly how it works
All stoners should stay at home with the xbox chips and Ding Dongs and call it a day.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Elevenpoint said:


> From a cognitive standpoint that is exactly how it works


Not really.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The number of Scottish cannabis users being hospitalised with psychiatric issues has increased by 74 per cent since 2016, when the drug was semi-decriminalised by Police Scotland. 

Professor Jonathan Chick, medical director of the Castle Craig rehabilitation clinic in the Scottish Borders, was quoted by the_ Post_ as saying that the patients he deals with suffer from “dependence and psychosis.”

“Often, where there has been a second or third psychotic breakdown, there has been hospital or police involvement because of incidents of self-harm or harm to others. These patients have terrifying thoughts,” he explained.

“It is a paranoid psychosis where they can’t even go into the street without misinterpreting thoroughly innocuous cues as malevolent. It is a horrible experience… Sometimes the damage is permanent in which case the treatment for schizophrenia involves living and working in safer environments and medication – though there is no medication that doesn’t come without effects such as weight increase, mental slowing and involuntary movements,” he added, warning that “The eye has been taken off the ball with cannabis.”

“We’re still in the grip of this really worrying narrative that cannabis is about peace, love and opening your mind with no harm done,” lamented the chief executive of the Faces & Voices of Recovery charity, Annemarie Ward, adding that the “cannabis myth has to be challenged”.









Cannabis Users Hospitalised with Psychiatric Issues Up 74 Per Cent Since Scotland's Quasi-Decriminalisation


The number of Scottish cannabis users being hospitalised with psychiatric issues has increased by 74 per cent since 2016, when the drug was semi-decriminalised by Police Scotland. The rise follows …




clarion.causeaction.com


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

__





long term effect of smoking marijuana on brain - Google Search






www.google.com


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

I think a lot of people with existing mental health issues self-medicate with various substances (pot, alcohol, opioids, the list goes on) because the side effects of prescription drugs are often almost unbearable and hard to be on long term.

I should say I know that is true, instead of think it.

Sometimes we confuse correlation with causation.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> The number of Scottish cannabis users being hospitalised with psychiatric issues has increased by 74 per cent since 2016, when the drug was semi-decriminalised by Police Scotland.
> 
> Professor Jonathan Chick, medical director of the Castle Craig rehabilitation clinic in the Scottish Borders, was quoted by the_ Post_ as saying that the patients he deals with suffer from “dependence and psychosis.”
> 
> ...


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For every negative article out there, there's a positive one to dispute it.




__





positive effects of smoking marijuana - Google Search






www.google.com


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> The number of Scottish cannabis users being hospitalised with psychiatric issues has increased by 74 per cent since 2016, when the drug was semi-decriminalised by Police Scotland.


I've often said that the rise in diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and some cancers is directly caused by the worsening standard American diet. I was told by someone here that these alarming statistics don't indicate any kind of worsening health crisis, rather we have gotten better at diagnosing. 🤣 Maybe that's the case here.😁


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

Stoners will defend weed to no end and nothing will change that. I dont have any relationships with stoners at all.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Elevenpoint said:


> Stoners will defend weed to no end and nothing will change that.


More than anything, they are defending their right to consume it. But yes, they will argue against the propaganda.



Elevenpoint said:


> I dont have any relationships with stoners at all.


As far as you know.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

A clear mind is an asset. A healthy body is an asset. How quickly each depreciates is life

This might not be your experience, but from my experience in order of least to most destructive to body and mind (and family). I don't consider any of these destructive in moderation. The definition of moderation varies wildly from person to person. The least amount of use will destroy some people. Some people are dynamite and all it takes is a spark for them to blow up. Some people are addicted very easily, and very quickly.

Pot
Psychedelics
Cocaine
Alcohol
Heroin
Meth
Opioids

Each individual has a different tolerance and susceptibility to drugs That said, we like simple rules. Make it illegal. Throw the infractors in prison. Stop drug use at any cost. This is a very stupid approach.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> Each individual has a different tolerance and susceptibility to drugs That said, we like simple rules. Make it illegal. Throw the infractors in prison. Stop drug use at any cost. This is a very stupid approach.


I agree.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

muleskinner2 said:


> Any addict can give you a reason why his drug of choice doesn't harm anyone, and is safe to use.


There's some truth to that, I suppose. But, I think it's easier to criticize and more difficult to defend something that doesn't have the stamp of approval from some federal bureaucracy. But what does that approval really mean? About 250,000 people die every year due to medical errors. The nations leading cause of accidental death. Third leading cause of death, overall. More than all the deaths due to illegal drugs combined. Yet, people are still worried about something as relatively benign as weed.


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## Digitalis (Aug 20, 2021)

Elevenpoint said:


> From a cognitive standpoint that is exactly how it works
> All stoners should stay at home with the xbox chips and Ding Dongs and call it a day.


Or do jiu-jitsu. The BJJ gym chain 10th planet is notorious for weed use during training and competitions.









The BJJ High: How Weed And Jiu-Jitsu Work Together


Imagine going to a BJJ tournament high. now imagine that you can actually get high right then and there, mat-side. Furthermore, imagine if the prize for winning the tournament was a pound of weed. Up until a few years ago, many people only dared dream of such an event. In today's world though it...




bjj-world.com





Not saying it's a good thing, it just is what it is. I will say it does wonders on muscle aches.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

kinderfeld said:


> Yet, people are still worried about something as relatively benign as weed.


So, if it only kills a few people a year then it's ok?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> So, if it only kills a few people a year then it's ok?


Does pot kill people?


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> Does pot kill people?


No.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

muleskinner2 said:


> So, if it only kills a few people a year then it's ok?


It doesn't kill anyone. Besides, who gets to decide whether or not it's "OK"?
Personally, I think that it is "OK" for people to decide for themselves if they want to use marijuana or not. Their business, no one else's.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

kinderfeld said:


> More than anything, they are defending their right to consume it. But yes, they will argue against the propaganda.
> 
> 
> As far as you know.


Its not about consuming its about getting stoned.
All stoners out themself or i just know by their behaviors. 
Thankfully i dont let many people in my life anyway.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

kinderfeld said:


> No.


I am sure some influenced drivers have


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

As one who grew up around it, I've determined weed is pretty harmless and can be a fun when used in moderation.
Having said that, it's my observation that the everyday stoners tend to not get much done, and don't seem to have great ambition to accomplish much.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> I am sure some influenced drivers have


Probably. But I'm talking about pot in and of itself.
Impaired driving is impaired driving regardless of the substance, distraction, or lack of sleep.


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## KC Rock (Oct 28, 2021)

The kansas government has been discussing legalization of some sort or another. Guess they're tired

of people running to colorado.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Don't be smokin' the devils lettuce


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## VBF (Apr 15, 2017)

I coulda told you that for free.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

kinderfeld said:


> Probably. But I'm talking about pot in and of itself.
> Impaired driving is impaired driving regardless of the substance, distraction, or lack of sleep.


I agree.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

To stop gun violence, to raise the emphasis on education, and to stop building new prisons we have to take the big money out of the underground economy of drugs. End of sentence. Drop the mike. Period.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> To stop gun violence, to raise the emphasis on education, and to stop building new prisons we have to take the big money out of the underground economy of drugs. End of sentence. Drop the mike. Period.


Decriminalize.
This would also take a lot of money out of the "above ground" economy of illicit drugs.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

kinderfeld said:


> Decriminalize.
> This would also take a lot of money out of the "above ground" economy of illicit drugs.


That is what I am saying, but it is not an "above ground" economy now


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Somewhere between the devil's lettuce makes everyone that snorts it stupid and it's a wonder drug with no Ill effects lies the truth. As long as boomers convinced of the former are part of the discussion we won't have much of a discussion.

What we know is, it has effects on the brain. How long those effects last have to do with what stage of development the brain is in, and how much and how often it is used.

If alcohol is legal, weed should be legal. Fentanyl is more legal than weed is, at a federal level. That is silly. There are a lot of people who are highly successful and professional that use marijuana on a regular basis. Doctors, lawyers, bankers. It's way more common than a lot of folks realize. No different than alcohol, some people don't let it impact their life.

It can negatively impact your life, just like anything. When that happens with alcohol, it usually looks like somebody missing employment opportunities because they've lost a license. Weed follows that path in some cases. But with alcohol, people end up in jail from taking a swing at someone. With weed they don't take the swing, they might stay stoned and miss their kids growing up, but they aren't likely to smack them around. Certain tendencies and weaknesses can be exacerbated with any substance, but it is not going to put it there. If you are schizophrenic, weed can make it worse, but you were already schizophrenic. It takes a pretty lazy person to stay stoned all the time. The perception that people who stay stoned all the time are lazy is not evidence of drug effects.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> That is what I am saying, *but it is not an "above ground" economy now*


What I mean is that there is a lot of money to be made "legally" off of the illegal drug trade.
Someone has to build the prisons, staff them, supply them, etc. That's just the prisons. Most of the inhabitants are there for drug related offenses. Lawyers, police,...etc.


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

kinderfeld said:


> Decriminalize.
> This would also take a lot of money out of the "above ground" economy of illicit drugs.


I have read that California's illegal marijuana trade is alive and well because (like all governments) the state put lots of restrictions on the growing and selling of it and high taxes on it because the government wants as much money as it can get from any source it can hit.

What I read said that street marijuana is cheaper and easier to get.

Not sure any of that is true.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

kinderfeld said:


> No.


Have you ever pulled the zipper closed on a body bag? Pulled the zipper closed across the face of an old lady, a grandmother, because some young punk stoned out of his mind on pot ran her off the road and killed her. And was so high on "pot" he didn't even know he had done it. I thought the by standers were going to beat him to death, before I could get him into handcuffs and in a patrol car.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

muleskinner2 said:


> Have you ever pulled the zipper closed on a body bag? Pulled the zipper closed across the face of an old lady, a grandmother, because some young punk stoned out of his mind on pot ran her off the road and killed her. And was so high on "pot" he didn't even know he had done it. I thought the by standers were going to beat him to death, before I could get him into handcuffs and in a patrol car.


Did the pot kill the old lady? No. An impaired driver did. 



kinderfeld said:


> But I'm talking about pot in and of itself.
> Impaired driving is impaired driving regardless of the substance, distraction, or lack of sleep.


Same with guns. They don't kill people. Irresponsible or malicious people do.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

kinderfeld said:


> Did the pot kill the old lady? No. An impaired driver did.


He was impaired, because he was high on pot, and too irresponsible to not get high and drive. In court he said that he didn't think that pot would impair your driving.


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

I'm sure we have all heard about "incrementalism": the method of change by which many small policy changes are enacted over time in order to create a larger broad based policy change.

Legalize alcohol-->legalize medical marijuana-->legalize all forms of marijuana-->legalize (fill in the blank) 

I am old enough to remember when Mississippi still had alcohol prohibition. (It was the last state to legalize alcohol in 1966.) We were told:
a. All the other states are doing it.
b. Prohibition is depriving Mississippi of millions of dollars a year because folks who live near the Alabama, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Arkansas lines go across the state line to buy it.
c. The state is losing multi-millions of dollars a year in potential sales tax revenue.
d. We can make the state the exclusive wholesaler of alcohol and make a tremendous profit by selling alcohol to state licensed alcohol retailers
e. If we legalize alcohol sales we can raise teachers' salaries tremendously to attract better teachers who at that time went to other jobs or other states. 
f. A little alcohol doesn't hurt anybody.

We soon had more alcoholics, drunk drivers, roadside beer can litter. The teachers got little if any more money. Teacher quality did not improve at all. But the state got a big boost in revenue---which it squandered.

So 24 years later (1990) the state legalized gambling. We were told:
a. Only a few other states are doing it. People will come from all over the country to gamble in Mississippi.
b. The state can make multi-millions of dollars a year in sales tax revenue, tourism, licensing casinos, etc.
c. If we legalize gambling we can raise teachers' salaries tremendously to attract better teachers who at that time went to other jobs or other states. 
d. A little gambling doesn't hurt anybody.

We have poor people who are spending food and housing money in casinos and "scratch-off" tickets. But, hey, their family is on welfare, free housing, free medical services, free food, etc.

Thirty-two years later, Mississippi just this week legalized medical marijuana. We were told:
a. All the other states are doing it.
b. Prohibition of medical marijuana is depriving sick folks of much needed pain relief.
c. Mississippi is losing multi-millions of dollars a year in potential sales tax revenue.
d. If we legalize medical marijuana we can raise teachers' salaries tremendously to attract better teachers who at that time went to other jobs or other states. 
e. Folks who want marijuana are getting it on the street anyway.
f. A little marijuana doesn't hurt anybody.

I just wonder what will come down the pike next. Maybe they will legalize prostitution or meth.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

muleskinner2 said:


> He was impaired, because he was high on pot, and *too irresponsible to not get high and drive*. In court he said that *he didn't think that pot would impair your driving*.


And therein lies the problem. It wasn't the weed. It was the driver. There are plenty of things that are harmless in and of themselves that will impair one's ability to drive.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

NRA_guy said:


> Maybe they will legalize prostitution or meth.


God help us if they legalize freedom!
Holy hell! People being left to decide for themselves!
What will come of us?!?!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

kinderfeld said:


> What I mean is that there is a lot of money to be made "legally" off of the illegal drug trade.
> Someone has to build the prisons, staff them, supply them, etc. That's just the prisons. Most of the inhabitants are there for drug related offenses. Lawyers, police,...etc.


No doubt - We have created the drug policing complex with kingdoms and government war lords

We get fed a line of lies to make us comfortable with the drug induced police state


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> No doubt - We have created the drug policing complex with kingdoms and government war lords
> 
> We get fed a line of lies to make us comfortable with the drug induced police state


Yep.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> He was impaired, because he was high on pot, and too irresponsible to not get high and drive. In court he said that he didn't think that pot would impair your driving.


We all have to realize prohibition is not working


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

HDRider said:


> We all have to realize prohibition is not working


Legal weed isnt what it was all cracked up to be.
Street price is much cheaper than your state weed office.
Legal growers are selling on the street also.
Another bad idea.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Elevenpoint said:


> Legal weed isnt what it was all cracked up to be.
> Street price is much cheaper than your state weed office.
> Legal growers are selling on the street also.
> Another bad idea.


What makes it a bad idea?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Elevenpoint said:


> Legal weed isnt what it was all cracked up to be.
> Street price is much cheaper than your state weed office.
> Legal growers are selling on the street also.
> Another bad idea.


State got too greedy

Black market fills the need

Nothing changes


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

kinderfeld said:


> What makes it a bad idea?


Failure of the government to prosecute those who injure or kill others as a result of the user's drug habit/desire.

Whether it be careless driving, robbery to get money to buy drugs, etc.

If the government locked up the abusers there would be:
a. Fewer abusers on the street
b. Jails full of abusers until they catch on to the risk.

The less punishment there is for abusers, the more abusers we get.

But, sadly, drug users vote, and politicians are happy to sacrifice YOUR health and safety for users' votes.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

NRA_guy said:


> Failure of the government to prosecute those who injure or kill others as a result of the user's drug habit/desire.


The "war on drugs" is failed policy.



NRA_guy said:


> Whether it be careless driving,* robbery to get money to buy drugs*, etc.


We're talking about weed.



NRA_guy said:


> If the government locked up the abusers there would be:
> a. Fewer abusers on the street
> b. Jails full of abusers until they catch on to the risk.


The jails are full of recreational drug users. Most of whom didn't hurt anyone.



NRA_guy said:


> The less punishment there is for abusers, the more abusers we get.


People are going to use it regardless.

Seems like we learned much quicker as a country from the Volstead Act. Didn't take so long to figure out that it was a nonstarter.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

NRA_guy said:


> I have read that California's illegal marijuana trade is alive and well because (like all governments) the state put lots of restrictions on the growing and selling of it and high taxes on it because the government wants as much money as it can get from any source it can hit.
> 
> What I read said that street marijuana is cheaper and easier to get.
> 
> Not sure any of that is true.


Yeah, that tracks.
Probably is true.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Crazed marijuana fiends robbing people to buy drugs. That's crazy talk. You should be able to be a pothead on ten bucks a day, about the same it costs to be a drunk. If you smoke more it's going to mean naptime comes a lot sooner. It's not like you can vomit, lose your buzz and get in a car to make a beer run. Five minutes on a street corner with a piece of cardboard is all you need. No robbery required.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

barnbilder said:


> Crazed marijuana fiends robbing people to buy drugs. That's crazy talk. You should be able to be a pothead on ten bucks a day, about the same it costs to be a drunk. If you smoke more it's going to mean naptime comes a lot sooner. It's not like you can vomit, lose your buzz and get in a car to make a beer run. Five minutes on a street corner with a piece of cardboard is all you need. No robbery required.


The rent and utilities are due
Kids need milk food clothes etc
Car insurance phone etc


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Elevenpoint said:


> The rent and utilities are due
> Kids need milk food clothes etc
> Car insurance phone etc


All paid by Uncle Sam.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

nchobbyfarm said:


> All paid by Uncle Sam.


Nothing like living in filth and squalor even if its free.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Elevenpoint said:


> Nothing like living in filth and squalor even if its free.


And? 
Many do it now.

But it isn't for pot. It isn't that expensive. 

Don't fall into the "Just say no" politics. 

What were your thoughts on pot before you heard that slogan?

Take it from a former convenience store owner for a sizeable number of years. Don't get me started on the stories I could tell.

The plant isn't an issue except for the rare instance which is more commonly caused by alcohol.


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## Max Overhead (Feb 22, 2021)

Well, it is heavily promoted, so the smart money is on it being something which is not good for you. Also, if you own guns, federal law makes it a crime for you to puff the cheeba, even if it is legal in your state. Back door gun confiscation here we come.


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Just another all too typical report in today's local news (below).

And, yeah, the drug situation starts with "just a little harmless joint" and grows to this:
---------------------------------------------------------------
*Arrests made after Lee Co. man found shot to death in bathtub, home robbed of cash and drugs*

LEE COUNTY, MISS. – Three people are behind bars, charged with capital murder in connection with the December shooting death of a Lee County man.

Gavin Jeffers of West Point, 28, Christopher Clayton of Fulton, 21, and Shanery Hampton of Macon, 29, are charged in connection with the murder of Justin Mayfield.

On December 22, Lee County sheriff’s deputies responded to a house on County Road. They found Mayfield in the bathtub with gunshot wounds.

The crime scene was processed and evidence collected, including weapons, large amounts of marijuana, and large amounts of cash.

Lee County Sheriff Jim Johnson says investigators found out the three armed suspects allegedly broke into the home to rob Mayfield.

Johnson says Mayfield fought the suspects and was shot. The suspects allegedly stole cash and narcotics.

“They knew the contents inside this home,” said Johnson. “... We don’t want the general public to think we have someone out here randomly breaking into homes and shooting people who have no idea of what’s going on.”

Johnson says Jeffers also has ties to Chicago, where he has convictions for aggravated kidnapping, home invasion, carjacking, aggravated robbery, and burglary. The sheriff says more arrests are expected.
-------------------------------------------------------------


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## gilleyb1958 (Dec 26, 2021)

So I guess from what a lot of you are saying is if I was to chill out with some pot say after a hard day working,
I'm going to change into crazed thieving murdering maniac. No wait......I couldn't be working. I'm going to get my Doritos and think about this for awhile.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Don't confuse violence connected with criminal enterprise with effects from a plant. Anything that is marketable that is made illegal becomes a criminal enterprise, and criminal enterprises involve violence, because they are carried out by criminals. You also add value to the product you are trying to stamp out, so not only do you make it a criminal enterprise, but a lucrative one. Similar things happened during the prohibition era, gangs, speakeasies, tommy guns, revenuers, dirty revenuers, large wads of cash, the mafia. Whens the last time you saw somebody chase a beer truck down the highway shooting at it with tommy guns?

You could outlaw tomatoes. People would want tomatoes for their tomato sandwiches. Somebody would supply tomatoes, probably at an elevated price. Some people would grow their own tomatoes. At that all of them would be criminals. The ones who lost their jobs due to tomato crimes would have no good options to pay the bills besides growing tomatoes at that point. Some of them might branch out into other criminal endeavors, since they are already criminals. Others might have the intent of only providing tomatoes to their friends and neighbors for a nominal fee, but they might be threatened with acts of violence from nefarious gardeners, forced to supply the local tomato syndicate. They would have no option to alert authorities of such manipulative threats without self incriminating. This would all happen because of a law, not because of a plant.


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## tripletmom (Feb 4, 2005)

NRA_guy said:


> I have read that California's illegal marijuana trade is alive and well because (like all governments) the state put lots of restrictions on the growing and selling of it and high taxes on it because the government wants as much money as it can get from any source it can hit.
> 
> What I read said that street marijuana is cheaper and easier to get.
> 
> Not sure any of that is true.


It's true in Arkansas...


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Piddle-posh. It's nothing compared to jenkem.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Damn. 

Don't Google it. It ain't worth it! Humans can be idiots. 

Where is the brain bleach?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Not going to look. What is it?


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## tripletmom (Feb 4, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Not going to look. What is it?


I did, you really don't want to know!!! think, inhaling fermented human poo🤢🤮


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

NRA_guy said:


> Just another all too typical report in today's local news (below).
> 
> And, yeah, the drug situation starts with "just a little harmless joint" and grows to this:


Any leftist could also make this story about guns. 

Me? I think it's further evidence of the need for legalization. How often does this happen over large amounts of whiskey these days? It used to.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

NRA_guy said:


> Johnson says Jeffers also has ties to Chicago, where he has convictions for aggravated kidnapping, home invasion, carjacking, aggravated robbery, and burglary. The sheriff says more arrests are expected.


🤣Gonna go out on the limb and say that there's a bit more to this than weed.


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

OK, I'm done with this thread. We know where each person stands.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

What you might consider is that people see things differently because they are standing in different places.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

NRA_guy said:


> OK, I'm done with this thread. We know where each person stands.
> 
> View attachment 105422


I agree.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

As to the original premise of this thread, there are a lot of self inflicted conditions that can impair a person's cognitive function.









The Cognitive Consequences of Obesity - Practical Neurology


Obesity that drives metabolic syndrome may drive a higher risk of dementia.




practicalneurology.com












How Cat Litter Parasite Toxoplasma Gondii Influences The Brain


New research led by a team at the Karolinska Institutet in Sweden reveals for the first time what the common 'cat litter parasite' Toxoplasma gondii does once it gets into the brain.




www.medicalnewstoday.com





Should it be illegal to be fat? Or to own cats? Both can impair cognitive function. Impaired cognitive function can lead to criminal behavior.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Not going to look. What is it?


You asked!

It is a sealed container of human waste left in the sun to ferment. They then open the container and inhale the vapors. It said it was a halucinagen.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

You wont find anyone that started out on meth or shooting up.
They started on weed....oh come on its just weed a few hits wont hurt you.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Elevenpoint said:


> You wont find anyone that started out on meth or shooting up.
> They started on weed....oh come on its just weed a few hits wont hurt you.


More likely they started out on prescription pain killers and once the doctor drug dealers stopped prescribing those they moved on to meth or heroin.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

Mish said:


> More likely they started out on prescription pain killers and once the doctor drug dealers stopped prescribing those they moved on to meth or heroin.


The doctor drug dealers dont stop prescribing. 
If one does theres another down the street.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Elevenpoint said:


> You wont find anyone that started out on meth or shooting up.
> They started on weed....oh come on its just weed a few hits wont hurt you.


I grew up in a small town, where everybody knows everybody, and almost everything that goes on. I know kids that would never associate with any of the known potheads in school, bought into the drugs are bad propaganda, which was big in the schools. Several of these teetotalers are now methheads. One of the worst went in the army, got injured and came out addicted to painkillers. He healed up from his original injuries, so he would self inflict injuries. Including wrecking cars. Once the doctors cracked down, and painkillers were hard or almost impossible to get, he burned his deceased mama's house down in an attempt to get insurance money. When he got out of jail for that he decided to steal some scrap metal from a guy that had a welding shop, got shot for that. At that point, any drug was fair game to feed what started as a prescription pain killer addiction.

I know several others who went to work in various factory and warehouse settings, wrenched a back or something, back in the 90's or early 2000's, ended up on pain pills, and later on the news paper cover every time there was a "14 arrested in heroin ring in small town" headline. I know 70 year old people who are on heroin now, because their painkiller scrip only lasts a day or two.

Out of all these meth and heroin addicts, some of them might have marijuana at the time of their arrest or car wreck, but they are using it to take the edge off until their friend gets done cooking a batch of meth or raiding granny's medicine cabinet. It's there, but if you have a true understanding of the situation, it is not a causative factor.

As a musician, I have been to a lot of social events. Some of the "just say no" crowd went to college, at some point they relaxed their attitude toward marijuana, and as older adults still enjoy the devil's lettuce, in social settings, on weekends, much as anyone would enjoy a glass of wine. These are successful professionals. Like alcohol, you don't have to end up sleeping under a bridge within walking distance of a liquor store. Now the people that smoke every chance they get, and have since we were teen agers, it has definitely affected their brain. But it has not affected their brain, or their life, nearly as bad as the ones who went the painkiller/meth/heroin route. The ones that I have been surprised to see sneak off and join the little circle with the high school pothead, (who now has a job and a house with fancy lights in the basement, who has never been in trouble because he is white) seem to function just fine when you talk to them the next day at the bank, doctors office, or other office they work at.

If you didn't grow up in the eighties and nineties to the early 2000's, you probably are not aware of how common marijuana use is, and how long it's been that way. A lot of people much prefer it to alcohol, which leaves them bloated, gives them a headache, and can make them more aggressive, and way less functional during and after use. Anybody that came of age before that time period probably has limited knowledge of what the plant does.

It was around since colonial times, a big part of the English slave trade. Let your slaves plant it and tend it, and they will stay happy. (A half an hour of brain fog and body numbness would probably make a day of working hard and getting beat slightly more tolerable). The bonus to the plantation owner, is that after your slaves harvested the flowers you had marketable hemp fiber. After slavery ended, black people could still get high while working on hemp farms. You have to consider that at that time, there wasn't much of a high, as most everything was a fiber crop and didn't have much in the way of psychoactive drugs. From the late 1800's on, doctors peddled prescription pain killers, in the form of laudanum, Indian immigrants that built railroads had opium and later heroin. People were addicted, and it was ugly in some places. Prohibition act probably didn't do anything to help opium addiction rates, so it probably got pretty ugly leading up to the federal drug laws of the 30's. The reason marijuana got lumped in with much more addictive opium derivatives was largely as a result of lobbying from Dupont. They were developing man made fibers, and hemp fiber was a threat, so they got rid of all competition by getting the government to ban even the low drug content fiber varieties of hemp. Marijuana use was associated with black people, so most of the racist south, and closet racist north was completely OK with these laws. 

But then we sent a bunch of boys off to Vietnam, and that changed things. They were seeing their buddies get blown up, getting shot at, so something to unwind seemed like a good idea. Probably helped having a few black comrades that recognized the plants they were hacking through. So they brought seeds home. The laws stayed in effect, because marijuana remained a drug of black people, veterans (who were often violent and dysfunctional as a result of their service) and it drifted into the biker gangs, and of course the hippies. The civil rights movement helped get some of the black folks who still harvested marijuana mixing with white kids. It had escaped cultivation and grew wild in some areas of the south. By the 80's it was everywhere. A friend of mine had a grandpa that was in Nam, early, he was nearing the end of his military career. When he retired, he built his house with a small courtyard in the center. We couldn't play where grandpa's special plants were growing, they were back medicine. Imagine our surprise when they showed us pictures of those plants while telling us how bad drugs were. That guy wasn't bad, he was one of the most peaceful and mellow human beings I'd ever been around, I mean he woke up screaming sometimes, but he was a veteran after all. The war on drugs fell flat on it's face because they included such nonsense about marijuana, none of it was credible to the kids they were trying to preach to.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

@barnbilder That was a very good post.

I will say that I am surprised at the number of meth and alcohol related deaths in my small (120) high school graduating class of 1978. I will add that many of those, maybe most of those that died from meth did not smoke pot in school.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I could go on an on with countless stories. Fat 60 year old dudes with teenage girlfriends because they had a scrip. Oxy got hard to come by, now their raggedy kids running the streets while mom and grandpa aged dad cook meth. 

They told us to stay away from drug dealers, but the doctors were the drug dealers. A lot of those people would have had a much better life if they had self medicated with marijuana. But the holier than thou teetotalers preaching abstinence from the devil's lettuce wouldn't have it. Even though they have no clue what they are talking about.


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## Big_Al (Dec 21, 2011)

HDRider said:


> @barnbilder That was a very good post.
> 
> I will say that I am surprised at the number of meth and alcohol related deaths in my small (120) high school graduating class of 1978. I will add that many of those, maybe most of those that died from meth did not smoke pot in school.


Perhaps not, but I'd wager the majority of them started out on weed.
I didn't one day all of a sudden just start mainlining heroin.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Big_Al said:


> Perhaps not, but I'd wager the majority of them started out on weed.
> I didn't one day all of a sudden just start mainlining heroin.


I would wager that most of them also ate bacon. Or breathed. We should outlaw breathing, because it's a form of inhalation and that leads to drugs, and drugs are bad.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Big_Al said:


> Perhaps not, but I'd wager the majority of them started out on weed.
> I didn't one day all of a sudden just start mainlining heroin.


Do you mainline heroin?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Big_Al said:


> Perhaps not, but I'd wager the majority of them started out on weed.
> I didn't one day all of a sudden just start mainlining heroin.


No doubt that pot is a gateway drug. I would suggest it is a gateway more because of those that traffic and sell pot also have easy access to other drugs.

I wrote my high school senior thesis on the pros and cons of legalizing marijuana. I got a C+.

Most people still or at one time believed prohibition works. I do not understand how someone can hold onto that belief.

I would like to see interdiction and incarceration cost reallocated to drug abuse treatment and have a regulated market that STOPS the illegal trade in drugs.

Some of the estimated total costs related to each type of drug include:​*Alcohol abuse:* $249 billion.​*Illegal drug abuse:* $193 billion.​*Prescription opioids: *$78.5 billion.​*Tobacco:* $300 billion.​







The Costs of Drug Use to Society


Get information on the estimated cost of drug abuse in the United States—including illegal drugs, alcohol, and tobacco.




www.verywellmind.com




I think these numbers are low and they are dated from 2013. I do not think they take into consideration the interdiction costs, judicial costs and prison costs. DEA alone cost over $3 billion per year. We spend over $180 billion per year for prisons.

Drugs and drug induced mental illness are the biggest contributors to homelessness. Using LA county number, I estimate we spend over $4 billion on the homeless per year


https://homeless.lacounty.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/homeless-costs-final.pdf



Other estimates put homeless cost at $24 billion per year









Homeless population - USAFacts


This statistic is collected by the Department of Housing and Urban Development and reflects a snapshot of the homeless population as of a single night at the end of January each year. The total number of people who experience homelessness for some period each year will be higher than this figure.




usafacts.org


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## gilleyb1958 (Dec 26, 2021)

Well if he did he was eating bacon before he did it.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

barnbilder said:


> I could go on an on with countless stories. Fat 60 year old dudes with teenage girlfriends because they had a scrip. Oxy got hard to come by, now their raggedy kids running the streets while mom and grandpa aged dad cook meth.
> 
> They told us to stay away from drug dealers, but the doctors were the drug dealers. A lot of those people would have had a much better life if they had self medicated with marijuana. But the holier than thou teetotalers preaching abstinence from the devil's lettuce wouldn't have it. Even though they have no clue what they are talking about.


They were warning that you were going to say goodbye to your brain.
Long ago the stoners were called burnt, burn outs.
To really see a brain disappear quick watch someone start meth at 55 and brain will be gone by 60. 
Thats someone that was a successful small business owner, nice home on acreage etc.
All gone now and not a pot to piss in.
He met a woman, they started smoking weed
Then she gave him some adderall 
And that was all it took.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Elevenpoint said:


> They were warning that you were going to say goodbye to your brain.
> Long ago the stoners were called burnt, burn outs.
> To really see a brain disappear quick watch someone start meth at 55 and brain will be gone by 60.
> Thats someone that was a successful small business owner, nice home on acreage etc.
> ...


There you go. I know a lot of people that are successful small and large businesses owners. That smoke weed. But put a prescription drug in the mix and then you have a meth head.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Another point this proves, is the abject failure of the war on drugs. People who try marijuana, after being lied to their entire lives, if they aren't knowledgeable, might get the idea that they were lied to about things like cocaine, methamphetamines, heroin and everything else. This is the only scenario I see marijuana as a gateway drug. If anyone tries marijuana, the first impression they are going to have is that all of those stupid commercials were lies. They aren't lies for the other drugs, or prescription painkillers. But for marijuana, it's all a lie.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Danaus29 said:


> Anyone who lived through the 70's could have told them that.



If they could remember


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

barnbilder said:


> Should it be illegal to be fat?


Yes.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Big_Al said:


> Perhaps not, but I'd wager the majority of them started out on weed.


Actually...probably alcohol.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> No doubt that pot is a gateway drug.


Not really. This was just an idea that was popularized in the 1980's war on drugs, "just say no" campaign. While many drug users did try weed before other drugs, that alone does not prove the weed caused them to do other drugs. Cannabis, like alcohol and nicotine, is just easier and cheaper to access. That's why these three are usually the first that some one will try.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

kinderfeld said:


> Not really. This was just an idea that was popularized in the 1980's war on drugs, "just say no" campaign. While many drug users did try weed before other drugs, that alone does not prove the weed caused them to do other drugs. Cannabis, like alcohol and nicotine, is just easier and cheaper to access. That's why these three are usually the first that some one will try.


I never said pot leads someone to try other drugs. You left off why I called it a gateway drug.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The war on drugs probably made people's pot supply chain unstable at times. If they don't have zesta crackers, you might try store brand. If you stretch your imagination enough, and count the guy that tried something besides pot because his pot guy was out, maybe you can get your gateway drug dream to come true. You still can't justify the dollars and years spent trying unsuccessfully to regulate a plant.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

barnbilder said:


> The war on drugs probably made people's pot supply chain unstable at times. If they don't have zesta crackers, you might try store brand. If you stretch your imagination enough, and count the guy that tried something besides pot because his pot guy was out, maybe you can get your gateway drug dream to come true. You still can't justify the dollars and years spent trying unsuccessfully to regulate a plant.


I did not say a pot smoker tried other drugs because he ran out of pot.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

HDRider said:


> I did not say a pot smoker tried other drugs because he ran out of pot.


Are you saying a pot smoker tried other drugs because a routine traffic stop put him in jail with hard drug users for years and when he got out he had little in the way of opportunities to better himself and his entire support network was made up primarily of hard drug users at that point?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

barnbilder said:


> Are you saying a pot smoker tried other drugs because a routine traffic stop put him in jail with hard drug users for years and when he got out he had little in the way of opportunities to better himself and his entire support network was made up primarily of hard drug users at that point?


No
You did not read what I said


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

As kids, my buddies and I used to go down some trails in some woods behind an elementary school. We would come upon sandwich bags painted gold or whatever. I had no idea what that was about. Why would someone paint a sandwich bag? Well, they didn't. They took a rattle can and sprayed the inside and then huffed it.
Why would someone want to do something like that?
It wasn't about a gateway, it was about not making it until payday.
Sometimes you go with what you got.


----------

