# Kenosha, Wisconsin



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Armed rioters shut down streets in Kenosha, Wisconsin on Sunday night as the city fell into chaos after a police-involved shooting earlier in the evening.

A large group of rioters – including at least two armed rioters – blocked a police armored car from proceeding down a street. After a standoff, the police began throwing tear gas canisters from the top of the vehicle to disperse the crowd. Moments later, gunshots rang out after one of the protesters appeared to open fire.

In the video posted on social media that appeared to show the shooting from across a street, three officers could be seen shouting and pointing their weapons at the man, who appeared to be Black, as he walked around the front of an SUV parked on the street. As the man opened the driver’s side door and leaned inside, one officer grabbed his shirt from behind and then fired into the vehicle. Seven shots could be heard on the video, though it was unclear if more than one officer fired.

Following the shooting, social media posts showed neighbors gathering in the surrounding streets and hurling comments at police. Some could be heard chanting, ‘No justice, no peace.’












Protesters Confront Police in Kenosha, Wis. After Video Appears to Show Officers Shooting Black Man in the Back


Kenosha Police said a person was hospitalized in serious condition




time.com


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297684746370252806


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297770791891656706


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297768149358714886
After King called for violence against the Church, a wave of attacks against the Church began. The acts of vandalism including the beheading of statues and arson.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Survival 101, when someone is pointing a gun at you, listen to them.


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## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

From the video, the case could easily be made that it was a justified shooting, because he didn't look to be entering the car to drive away, he looked to be reaching for something. I personally think that each officer was at fault, they let him walk away and enter the vehicle without deploying nonlethal force (pepper spray, taser, physical detainment, etc). In today's climate, there is no reason to escalate past nonlethal force without first attempting it. These officers had lethal weaponry deployed before he walked away from them.


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## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

HDRider said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297768149358714886
> After King called for violence against the Church, a wave of attacks against the Church began. The acts of vandalism including the beheading of statues and arson.



People like this are the bigger problem.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Seth said:


> From the video, the case could easily be made that it was a justified shooting, because he didn't look to be entering the car to drive away, he looked to be reaching for something. I personally think that each officer was at fault, they let him walk away and enter the vehicle without deploying nonlethal force (pepper spray, taser, physical detainment, etc). In today's climate, there is no reason to escalate past nonlethal force without first attempting it. These officers had lethal weaponry deployed before he walked away from them.


Just wondering: where did you grow up/live now? How much firsthand experience have you had dealing with the Black Community?


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## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

doc- said:


> Just wondering: where did you grow up/live now? How much firsthand experience have you had dealing with the Black Community?



North Carolina, and a lot of experience. Enough that I'd just as soon not anymore, for the most part.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

An LEO's job is to protect and serve. His obligation is to survive!
The way that guy stomped around the vehicle and then quickly reaching into the van is the reason lethal force was necessary.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Seth said:


> Enough that I'd just as soon not anymore, for the most part.


Then I'm surprised at the attitude you expressed in your previous post. I think you get it.

I'm no lover of the constabulary, by any means, but you can't criticize the reactions of someone who is on the street in the middle of an event that could be about to turn deadly. Cops don't have instantaneous crystal balls to tell them what's coming next..

I've always said that anybody who wants to be a cop shouldn't be allowed to be one. What are they thinking? What's wrong with them? They want a job where the object is to go look for trouble?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Seth said:


> *they let him walk away* and enter the vehicle without deploying nonlethal force (pepper spray, taser, physical detainment, etc).


From what I saw, they had less than 5 seconds from the time he started walking away until shots were fired. They already had guns drawn, so there's a lot missing from the video. 

I think I'll wait to hear the whole story with all the details.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

He had been waving a knife, had outstanding warrants, refused to follow instructions, and told the police he had a gun. He refused to stop after he said he had a gun in the car. A taser was used but malfunctioned.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

HDRider said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297768149358714886
> After King called for violence against the Church, a wave of attacks against the Church began. The acts of vandalism including the beheading of statues and arson.


Who is this King, to be demanding anything?


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

muleskinner2 said:


> Who is this King, to be demanding anything?


Instigator!
People are reacting before the facts are known and it is happening because of the narrative being pushed.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Apparently he was not unknown to the police. They likely knew he was dangerous enough to be careful. They told him to stop and he ignored their orders. Good shoot.

*Jacob Blake 5 Fast Facts*

*‘Had multiple warrants, history of gun violence with police’*

Jacob Blake was named by Wisconsin’s governor as the man who was shot and seriously wounded by a Kenosha police officer at close range in a graphic scene that was captured on video. The governor says Blake, 29, was shot “in the back multiple times.”

The Wisconsin police officer fired seven shots that appeared directed at extremely close range into Blake’s back as Blake bent into a car, the graphic video shows. The August 23 video captures the sound of seven gunshots. It appears that the officer opens fire while holding the back of the man’s shirt. The officer’s name is not yet known. You can watch the video below, but be forewarned that it is very graphic. It’s not yet known whether Blake had a weapon or had access to one; it’s also not known what words were exchanged, if any, before the shooting.

Blake’s Facebook cover photo shows officers in a squad car wearing a pig and devil mask.

According to Wisconsin Circuit Court Access online records, a Jacob S. Blake, same age and with an address in the same exact block where the shooting occurred, had a warrant issued for him on July 7 on pending accusations of misdemeanor criminal trespass to a dwelling with domestic abuse as a modifier; felony third-degree sexual assault with domestic abuse as a modifier; and misdemeanor disorderly conduct with domestic abuse as a modifier. A support action was dismissed, and the only other case that comes up is for not having a driver’s license.

A 2015 story in Racine Eye described how “Racine police say K9 Dozer had to help officers take a man into custody when the man refused to go quietly into custody after he pulled a gun at a local bar.” The man was described as Jacob Blake, 24, of Racine, which makes him the same age as the man shot by police on August 23. The Racine Eye story says he was charged with “one felony count of resisting arrest causing a soft tissue injury to a police officer and one misdemeanor count each of carrying a concealed weapon, carrying a firearm while intoxicated, endangering safety-use of a dangerous weapon, and disorderly conduct.” Those charges don’t show up on the circuit court website though.

That story further alleges, “Blake and two women were at the Brass Monkey tavern, 1436 Junction Avenue, Saturday when Blake got into an argument with another patron and pulled a black handgun. Blake pointed the gun at the other man, and the magazine fell to the floor. The bartender told Blake to leave, and he did but then pointed the gun through the window at patrons inside the bar before walking south on Junction Avenue.”

Police stopped Blake in a “high risk traffic stop” but he “exited the SUV and started walking toward officers and ignored commands to get down on the ground,” the story says. That’s when officers forced him to the ground and used a K9 when he kept resisting, the story adds.

The Kenosha News reported that neighbors said Blake was “trying to break up a fight between two women.”

*Continue reading 5 Fast Facts…*


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

An eyewitness on CBS says officers fought with Blake before he broke free and went to the car.
They were shouting "Drop the knife" and they DID Tase him, with no effect.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

From NOW ON police should REFUSE to answer calls from "those" neighborhoods.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

MO_cows said:


> Survival 101, when someone is pointing a gun at you, listen to them.


Until you can launch a deadly counterattack.


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

nehimama said:


> From NOW ON police should REFUSE to answer calls from "those" neighborhoods.


I don't like that approach. Soon you get "No go zones" like they have in France and then they create their own independent government. It's what ANTIFA wanted to do in Seattle.

I like the old British philosophy that "The King can go anywhere in the kingdom."

Personally, I think that EVERY US citizen should be able to freely and safely go in ANY public place at any time of the day or night without fear.


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## 67drake (May 6, 2020)

I lived in Racine and Kenosha for the last 30+ years, up till I threw in the towel a few years back. It used to be a nice area to live with nice middle class neighborhoods still. I could see the area going downhill the last decade as the blue collar jobs left. Anyway, back to the shooting.....


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Basic training film for all people of color who want to avoid a whooping by police  




__





chris rock police video - Bing video







www.bing.com


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

NRA_guy said:


> Personally, I think that EVERY US citizen should be able to freely and safely go in ANY public place at any time of the day or night without fear.


Right!!...and while we're at it, I wish I was young, handsome and rich....and could fly too.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

doc- said:


> Right!!...and while we're at it, I wish I was young, handsome and rich....and could fly too.


Cocaine advertisement?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

When people do stupid things they should expect stupid results. First and main fault starts with the instigator.


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## 67drake (May 6, 2020)

My wife just read that over 200 cars were just seen leaving Racine and headed towards Kenosha with their license plates blacked out or taken off. Fun times! I bet they’re peaceful protesters!


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

HDRider said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297770791891656706


Flash back. In 2011 I was riding shotgun on convoys out of camp Adder in Iraq. I would of been in the right front seat. My Ugandan driver would of never slowed down. My Ugandan gunner would of been in the turret with a Russian RPK and a 200 round belt. The guy in the red shirt, posturing with the AR, would of lived just long enough to see the muzzle flash. This whole thing would of been a two or three line entry in my incident report.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

muleskinner2 said:


> Flash back. In 2011 I was riding shotgun on convoys out of camp Adder in Iraq. I would of been in the right front seat. My Ugandan driver would of never slowed down. My Ugandan gunner would of been in the turret with a Russian RPK and a 200 round belt. The guy in the red shirt, posturing with the AR, would of lived just long enough to see the muzzle flash. This whole thing would of been a two or three line entry in my incident report.


I do not want my country to be like 2011 Iraq. Unfortunately some parts already are.

The leftists have ruined our country. I am trying to imagine what it will look like as America continues to collapse so I can prepare my family to succeed.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

MO_cows said:


> Survival 101, when someone is pointing a gun at you, listen to them.


I liked it but only when it's an Leo. I can't say anything else but when they say hands up you are absolutely going to be cuffed or worse!


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

boatswain2PA said:


> I do not want my country to be like 2011 Iraq. Unfortunately some parts already are.
> 
> The leftists have ruined our country. I am trying to imagine what it will look like as America continues to collapse so I can prepare my family to succeed.


The National Guard has been called out in Kenosha today. I am afraid it will get worse between now and November, and then it will get really bad. Regardless of who wins in November, the country we all knew is gone.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)




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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

muleskinner2 said:


> The National Guard has been called out in Kenosha today. I am afraid it will get worse between now and November, and then it will get really bad. Regardless of who wins in November, the country we all knew is gone.


Not that I like what you predicted, just that I agree with you. It's going to get bad, real bad, real fast. Then we'll be wishing covid was the worst thing about 2020.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

No one is explaining how the police were called to the scene in the first place, and already had their guns drawn ?...perhaps a repeat violent offender ?...beating on his wife again ?....whacked out on drugs again ?

I am not justifying the heavy response, but he had to know that his actions would result in a bad result !


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

CKelly78z said:


> No one is explaining how the police were called to the scene in the first place, and already had their guns drawn ?...perhaps a repeat violent offender ?...beating on his wife again ?....whacked out on drugs again ?
> 
> I am not justifying the heavy response, but he had to know that his actions would result in a bad result !


They were notified that he had an outstanding warrant.


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## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

doc- said:


> Then I'm surprised at the attitude you expressed in your previous post. I think you get it.
> 
> I'm no lover of the constabulary, by any means, but you can't criticize the reactions of someone who is on the street in the middle of an event that could be about to turn deadly. Cops don't have instantaneous crystal balls to tell them what's coming next..
> 
> I've always said that anybody who wants to be a cop shouldn't be allowed to be one. What are they thinking? What's wrong with them? They want a job where the object is to go look for trouble?




My post was based on what I saw in the video, considering today's social climate. It has been pointed out on here since that nonlethal was deployed before the video and malfunctioned, a fact that the video didn't show so I was unaware of. The meaning of my post had more to do with the police covering their donkeys due to the state of the world rather than the guy being a victim of bad policing.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Mule asked who King was.

Shaun King is an American writer, civil rights activist and co-founder of Real Justice PAC. King uses social media to promote social justice causes, including the Black Lives Matter movement. He worked as a high school teacher in Atlanta. He then went on to work as a pastor and founded a church in Atlanta called Courageous Church. During this time, King launched a number of internet campaigns.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

TripleD said:


> I liked it but only when it's an Leo. I can't say anything else but when they say hands up you are absolutely going to be cuffed or worse!


Cuffed is way better than shot


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

HDRider said:


> Mule asked who King was.
> 
> Shaun King is an American writer, civil rights activist and co-founder of Real Justice PAC. King uses social media to promote social justice causes, including the Black Lives Matter movement. He worked as a high school teacher in Atlanta. He then went on to work as a pastor and founded a church in Atlanta called Courageous Church. During this time, King launched a number of internet campaigns.


He's a hate monger who made his reputation teaching people to hate each other.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

CKelly78z said:


> No one is explaining how the police were called to the scene in the first place, and already had their guns drawn ?...perhaps a repeat violent offender ?...beating on his wife again ?....whacked out on drugs again ?


It was a "domestic violence" call.
Before he was shot, he struggled with the police, and they had already tased him before he broke free and went to the vehicle.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

po boy said:


> He had been waving a knife, had outstanding warrants, refused to follow instructions, and told the police he had a gun. He refused to stop after he said he had a gun in the car. A taser was used but malfunctioned.
> 
> 
> View attachment 90390


Exactly. Another example of someone's own poor decisions leading to a violent death.


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> Not that I like what you predicted, just that I agree with you. It's going to get bad, real bad, real fast. Then we'll be wishing covid was the worst thing about 2020.


Sadly, I think this is right. TBH I predicted what we're seeing nearly 20 years ago, and made plans accordingly - it's why I live where I do. I just expected it to take longer before we got to a total breakdown of society.

We are so divided now, I don't see any non-violent resolution.

As for me, I moved away from likely problem areas. I want nothing to do with it.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

random said:


> TBH


Who is TBH?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Leadership has collapsed in this country. There is none.
Less than half the country wanted chaos and the greater half wants to give it to them.
This too will pass.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

TBH

TBH stands for “To Be Honest”. 

Short nick name. I believe it might have been a southern politician, probably a republican. Had to be some years ago. Pretty sure none of his relatives in office now a days on either side of the isle.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

kinderfeld said:


> Exactly. Another example of someone's own poor decisions leading to a violent death.


Mr. Blake didn't die, he was shot multiple times in front of his children.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Mr. Blake didn't die, he was shot multiple times in front of his children.


He is still alive?


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Mr. Blake didn't die, he was shot multiple times in front of his children.


Sounds like a violent death to me.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> He is still alive?





kinderfeld said:


> Sounds like a violent death to me.


Jacob Blake is not dead, that means no death, violent or otherwise. 

According to Google (I’m sure someone will double check) Mr Blake is still alive.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Blake is not dead... he's "in the hospital in serious but stable condition". Today, his father stated that he is paralyzed from the waist down.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Jacob Blake is not dead, that means no death, violent or otherwise.
> 
> According to Google (I’m sure someone will double check) Mr Blake is still alive.


Ah. I see. I was under the impression that he was killed. Good for him.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

And the result is this from last night:









Kenosha, Wisconsin Violence And Chaos Escalate


Violence escalated in Kenosha Monday night as large groups of BLM protesters-turned-rioters began congregating around the Kenosha County Courthouse.




thefederalist.com





I understand, but may be mistaken, that the mayor, a democrat, told the police to stand down during the rioting. This is a perfect example if we live in a country without police - complete anarchy.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Mr. Blake didn't die, he was shot multiple times in front of his children.


Whose fault is that?


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Whose fault is that?


Some people just can't take responsibility for themselves and need to blame others.....


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Wolf mom said:


> Some people just can't take responsibility for themselves and need to blame others.....


It seems to be happening much more often.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

nehimama said:


> From NOW ON police should REFUSE to answer calls from "those" neighborhoods.


Um, I think that's been tried in the past, and doesn't work so well.

Last I heard, Blake is not only paralyzed, but he also had most of his GI tract removed, and short-gut syndrome will kill a person faster than almost any other injury. We'll see what happens. ETA: I do believe that the shooting in itself was not unjustified, but SEVEN TIMES? And in front of small children? They'll be permanently traumatized.

So, what do some of you suggest be done? Concentration camps? Mandatory sterilization? Fire-bombing? (They also tried that in Tulsa 100 years ago.) I've always believed that if Sandy Hook happened in one of "those" neighborhoods, it would barely have made the local news, and would only be discussed nowadays on racist blogs, and have heard the same thing about Columbine from people who lived in Denver when it happened.

I'll admit that I have had OB nurses tell me that any woman who comes in to deliver a baby from certain neighborhoods in big cities, or have certain last names in small towns, be sterilized prior to discharge, and the baby too; that way, you get the boys.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> Flash back. In 2011 I was riding shotgun on convoys out of camp Adder in Iraq. I would of been in the right front seat. My Ugandan driver would of never slowed down. My Ugandan gunner would of been in the turret with a Russian RPK and a 200 round belt. The guy in the red shirt, posturing with the AR, would of lived just long enough to see the muzzle flash. This whole thing would of been a two or three line entry in my incident report.


It's would HAVE, not would of.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

thesedays said:


> It's would HAVE, not would of.


I write the way I talk. I would not have said have, I would have said of. So piss off.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Julia Jackson, the mother of Jacob Blake, blasted rioters who have caused substantial violence and riots in Kenosha, Wisconsin, this week after her 29-year-old son was shot by police during an attempted arrest, saying that she is “disgusted” by their behavior.

“My family and I are very hurt and quite frankly disgusted,” Jackson told CNN’s Don Lemon. “And as his mother, please don’t burn up property and cause havoc and tear your own homes down in my son’s name. You shouldn’t do it. People shouldn’t do it anyway, but to use my child or any other mother or father’s child, our tragedy to react in that manner is just not acceptable. And it’s not helping Jacob. It’s not helping Jacob or any other of the men or women who has suffered in these areas.”


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

regardless of blame in the case, I think everyone can agree that this is disgusting behavior.








Viral videos show protesters demanding DC restaurant patrons raise fists in solidarity


Demonstrations were held in the nation’s capital Monday in response to the police shooting of Jacob Blake.




thehill.com












Videos of Protesters Harassing, Screaming Into Faces of People Eating Outside Go Viral


Two videos showing Black Lives Matter protesters harassing and screaming into the faces of people eating outside went viral on Tuesday amid riots and protests over the police shooting of Jacob Blake.




www.mediaite.com


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

When a husband backhands his wife, it isn't her fault. Ever.
When a neighbor burns your garage down, it isn't your fault. Ever.
When a co worker threatens you with unprovoked physical harm, it isn't your fault. Ever.
You have no rights when it comes to my personal property, or the welfare of me or my collective family.

I don't need to go on.
The rights of law abiding, mostly peaceful citizens do not end upon the right of a violent, anarchist crowd of criminals to supposedly exercise their freedom of expression.
The "two sides" 50/50 responsibility baloney is baloney and of poor quality baloney at that.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Chaos is what some wanted and chaos is what we have.
Can we go back to normal and put adults back in power?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)




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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

SLADE said:


> Chaos is what some wanted and chaos is what we have.
> Can we go back to normal and put adults back in power?


That almost sounds like the riots were planned, do you see the riots being used by some to grasp control?


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

SLADE said:


> Chaos is what some wanted and chaos is what we have.
> Can we go back to normal and put adults back in power?





no really said:


> That almost sounds like the riots were planned, do you see the riots being used by some to grasp control?


Is that question rhetorical or are you serious?


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

SLADE said:


> Chaos is what some wanted and chaos is what we have.
> Can we go back to normal and put adults back in power?


Sure, look at who is running each of the States/cities with major riots. We need to vote every one of them out.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Minneapolis-check
Kenosha-check
Chicago-check
Portland-check
Baltimore-check
St. Louis-check
Sturgis-check, nope, wait a minute, that one turned out ok. Next!


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Wolf mom said:


> Is that question rhetorical or are you serious?


LOL it was a question to slade, just wondering where his/her thoughts were? 

Me I'm pretty well convinced this was well planned and thought out by those with deep pockets and much power.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

no really said:


> LOL it was a question to slade, just wondering where his/her thoughts were?
> Me, I'm pretty well convinced this was well planned and thought out by those with deep pockets and much power.


I agree...Money can be traced back to Soros!

Slade says anything to get a rise and stir the stew pot. He/she is pretty much all over the map. I'm ready to put her/him on ignore as there certainly isn't any depth or added interest to the comments.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Wolf mom said:


> Slade says anything to get a rise and stir the stew pot. He/she is pretty much all over the map. I'm ready to put her/him on ignore as there certainly isn't any depth or added interest to the comments.


Thats a good idea. His posts are not at all informative and not even witty or interesting. Just low end trolling.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> The "two sides" 50/50 responsibility baloney is baloney and of poor quality baloney at that.


That is why you have to choose sides


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

HDRider said:


> Who is TBH?


As mentioned, "To Be Honest", a pointless idiom, which I generally try to avoid. That one slipped by.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLADE said:


> Chaos is what some wanted and chaos is what we have.
> Can we go back to normal and put adults back in power?


Those causing the problem are the ones you want to "put back in power".


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

thesedays said:


> Last I heard, Blake is not only paralyzed, but he also had most of his GI tract removed, and short-gut syndrome will kill a person faster than almost any other injury. We'll see what happens. ETA: I do believe that the shooting in itself was not unjustified, but SEVEN TIMES? And in front of small children? They'll be permanently traumatized.


With your question, I am wondering if you have had much firearms training. The "one shot" idea is a myth promulgated by Hollywood. In reality, most self-defense shootings require multiple shots to stop the threat - which BTW is what the purpose is: to stop the threat. All self-defense firearms training I've taken and/or seen instructs to shoot multiple times.

I recall a case when I was in high school where cops engaged a guy on PCP (obviously not the case here) that they shot over 40 times and he still kept coming. This was with .38's, which are a good bit more powerful than the 9mm or .40's that police generally use today.

As for "in front of small children", unfortunately, that was out of the cop's control. Assuming the shooting was justified, the cop was not the one to choose the time and place.



HDRider said:


> Julia Jackson, the mother of Jacob Blake, blasted rioters who have caused substantial violence and riots in Kenosha, Wisconsin, this week after her 29-year-old son was shot by police during an attempted arrest, saying that she is “disgusted” by their behavior.
> 
> “My family and I are very hurt and quite frankly disgusted,” Jackson told CNN’s Don Lemon. “And as his mother, please don’t burn up property and cause havoc and tear your own homes down in my son’s name. You shouldn’t do it. People shouldn’t do it anyway, but to use my child or any other mother or father’s child, our tragedy to react in that manner is just not acceptable. And it’s not helping Jacob. It’s not helping Jacob or any other of the men or women who has suffered in these areas.”


And, as in the Floyd case, the rioters won't pay any attention to the family's wishes. It's not about justice, it's about chaos.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

thesedays said:


> Um, I think that's been tried in the past, and doesn't work so well.
> 
> Last I heard, Blake is not only paralyzed, but he also had most of his GI tract removed, and short-gut syndrome will kill a person faster than almost any other injury. We'll see what happens. ETA: I do believe that the shooting in itself was not unjustified, but SEVEN TIMES? And in front of small children? They'll be permanently traumatized.
> 
> ...


So how many shots should a officer use to protect themselves from harm? 

Do some research and you will quickly find that there is not a correct answer. When your life is in danger trying to shoot someone in the arm or leg is ridiculous. To easy to miss and it might not work. To many instances of people just keep coming. Generally speaking if the situation comes to the point of guns being involved then you shoot until your gun is empty. If there is more than one assailant hopefully you have time to reload. During such a time of HIGH stress seven hits should be congratulated, not condemned.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> That is why you have to choose sides


That will play out well.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> Thats a good idea. His posts are not at all informative and not even witty or interesting. Just low end trolling.


Same to you.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLADE said:


> That will play out well.


How well it plays out is yet to be determined, but your side is doing its level best to destroy this country.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> How well it plays out is yet to be determined, but your side is doing its level best to destroy this country.


I think your side all ready has and now just covering tracks.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLADE said:


> I think your side all ready has and now just covering tracks.


Why would your side be so cooperative to cover "our" tracks?


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLADE said:


> Same to you.


😘


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Today's news noted two shot dead in Kenosha overnight, and one wounded.









Wisconsin investigators say knife found at scene of police shooting of Jacob Blake


Investigators of a shooting by a white police officer that left a Black man, Jacob Blake Jr., paralyzed and the town of Kenosha, Wisconsin, torn by civil strife found a knife belonging to Blake at the scene of the confrontation, the state attorney general said on Wednesday.




www.reuters.com


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> Today's news noted two shot dead in Kenosha overnight, and one wounded.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am wondering if that was done by some vigilante. This ain't getting better


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I am wondering if that was done by some vigilante. This ain't getting better


I saw a video clip somewhere of a protester running up behind an armed guy and sucker punching him in the head. 
Im not impressed at all by the militia types but what kind of idiot hits a guy hold omg a gun. 
no idea if that clip was the shooter in the fatal incident 
.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> I saw a video clip somewhere of a protester running up behind an armed guy and sucker punching him in the head.
> Im not impressed at all by the militia types but what kind of idiot hits a guy hold omg a gun.
> no idea if that clip was the shooter in the fatal incident
> .


It is just a matter of time until the militia types get involved. They may be already. There will come a time, soon, if this stuff keeps going, where the militia types go all in.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

These domestic terrorist sympathizers are using this "both sides to blame" prematurely.
If they hold on, before long, there will be some folks forced into defending themselves and/or their families and one or more of these communist thugs will end up room temperature.
Then the news will be filled with the white hate narrative and how both sides need to reach a compromise.
The "Mostly peaceful" crowd aren't the ones throwing urine in bottles and kicking granny out of her wheelchair, but the mostly peaceful bunch may soon be reaching their last nerve.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> It is just a matter of time until the militia types get involved. They may be already. There will come a time, soon, if this stuff keeps going, where the militia types go all in.


They already are. The “Kenosha Guard” may have been involved in the shooting last night.
looks like they’ve called up the National Guard now, so that’s good.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> They already are. The “Kenosha Guard” may have been involved in the shooting last night.
> looks like they’ve called up the National Guard now, so that’s good.


Illinois police arrested a juvenile Wednesday after two people were shot to death in a possible vigilante attack during a protest in Kenosha over the police shooting of a Black man, Jacob Barnes.

Commander Norman Johnson of the Antioch Police Department said the suspect — a young man whose name was not released because he is under 18 — was arrested on suspicion of first-degree intentional homicide. Police did not immediately release any other details.









17-year-old arrested in shooting death of 2 at Kenosha protest


Kyle Rittenhouse, of Antioch, Illinois, was taken into custody in Illinois on suspicion of first-degree intentional homicide. Antioch is about 15 miles from Kenosha.




www.cnbc.com


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

I just saw they arrested him too, 17 years old....such a waste.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

What a waste of lives. 









Man, 17, is charged as two BLM protesters shot dead in Kenosha - 247 News Around The World


A 17-year-old has been arrested over a shooting in Kenosha, Wisconsin last night that left two protesters…



247newsaroundtheworld.com


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> I just saw they arrested him too, 17 years old....such a waste.


There is a lot being laid to waste right now. Shameful


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

The rifle carrier was being chased down the street. Knocked down and attacked. While still on the ground, and being attacked he shot at least two of the attackers. The mob backed off and the rifle carrier got up and ran to the police, who seemed to ignore him. All filmed. Now most of the films being shown on the news cuts out at the point of the guy defending himself.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> What a waste of lives.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not good


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I don't want to call it a race war. I don't know what to call it.

It either has to be brought to an end by authorities, or it is going to get even worse.

Why is it being allowed to exist?

It could be stopped


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Too much young testosterone and not enough common sense.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Too much young testosterone and not enough common sense.


Those things are mutually exclusive


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Redlands Okie said:


> The rifle carrier was being chased down the street. Knocked down and attacked. While still on the ground, and being attacked he shot at least two of the attackers. The mob backed off and the rifle carrier got up and ran to the police, who seemed to ignore him. All filmed. Now most of the films being shown on the news cuts out at the point of the guy defending himself.


From what I've read, he was being chased after his initial shooting, which there is no video of what lead to it.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Lots of people with a female appearance in the films on the news. Guess they can still have to much testosterone it seems.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

doozie said:


> From what I've read, he was being chased after his initial shooting, which there is no video of what lead to it.


the sequencing shown here makes it appear that the kid was attacked Before he started shooting.








Man, 17, is charged as two BLM protesters shot dead in Kenosha - 247 News Around The World


A 17-year-old has been arrested over a shooting in Kenosha, Wisconsin last night that left two protesters…



247newsaroundtheworld.com


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

I am not sure if this has been shared but shows several angles. No idea what happened before being chased.



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10157902252088992


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Reports are that they chased him after they believed he shot or shot at another man.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Reports are also that he was attacked and then shot.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

https://www.startribune.com/kenosha-police-3-shot-2-fatally-during-wisconsin-protests/572225722/



"KENOSHA, Wis. — A white, 17-year-old police admirer was arrested Wednesday in the killing of two people gunned down during a third night of protests in Kenosha over the police shooting of a Black man, Jacob Blake.
Kyle Rittenhouse, of Antioch, Illinois, was taken into custody in Illinois on suspicion of first-degree intentional homicide. Antioch is about 15 miles from Kenosha.
Two people were shot to death Tuesday night in an attack carried out by a young white man who was caught on cellphone video opening fire in the middle of the street with a semi-automatic rifle.
"I just killed somebody," the gunman could be heard saying at one point during the shooting rampage that erupted just before midnight.
One victim was shot in the head and the other in the chest, Sheriff David Beth told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. A third person suffered gunshot wounds not believed to be life-threatening.
In the wake of the killings, Wisconsin Gov. Tony Evers authorized 500 members of the National Guard to support local law enforcement around Kenosha, doubling the number of troops sent in. The governor's office said he working other states to bring in additional National Guard troops and law officers.



"We were all chanting 'Black lives matter' at the gas station and then we heard, boom, boom, and I told my friend, `'That's not fireworks,'" 19-year-old protester Devin Scott told the Chicago Tribune. "And then this guy with this huge gun runs by us in the middle of the street and people are yelling, 'He shot someone! He shot someone!' And everyone is trying to fight the guy, chasing him and then he started shooting again."
Scott said he cradled a lifeless victim in his arms, and a woman started performing CPR, but "I don't think he made it."


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Where does this say that he shot before anyone attacked?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I posted this. "Reports are that they chased him after they believed he shot or shot at another man."

This is in the article. "And then this guy with this huge gun runs by us in the middle of the street and people are yelling, 'He shot someone! He shot someone!' And everyone is trying to fight the guy, chasing him and then he started shooting again." 

After he was chased and attacked he shot and killed two people and wounded them. At this time I can find nothing that verifies that he actually shot someone before he ran and they ran after them. I expect the police report and charges will zero in on that.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Painterswife story link just leaves out the part about the shooter being attacked, knocked down, when running away from his assailants. Then while still being on the ground and still being attacked he shot his attackers. 

Typical media spin.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Redlands Okie said:


> Painterswife story link just leaves out the part about the shooter being attacked, knocked down. Then while still being on the ground and still being attacked he shot his attackers.
> 
> Typical media spin.


My link was only to show information about some of the reports I had read and about the information I had previously posted. It is not the entire story and only one link. It was not meant to be more. The story is also still new and we will get more info as it is uncovered.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Some of the video also shows that he fell to the ground when they were chasing him. They tried to take the gun and he recovered and shot them.



https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/video/mol/2020/08/26/5860684541469178092/960x540_MP4_5860684541469178092.mp4


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

^^^^^yes. Thank you.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

They were definitely chasing him and he had been hit from behind previously to hitting the ground. but was still running. To me, it looks like he stumbled and fell but either way, he should have not been there, he should not have been there with a gun. They should not have chased him and were in reality doing the same stupid thing he thought he was doing in the first place. Protecting others.

If he really is 17 then he was illegally open carrying as well.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

None of them should have been there. 
It was after curfew.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I do wonder what kind of idiot parents allowed him to go there at all.
if they did.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Lots of stuff out there. Some are saying he was protecting an auto dealership. This guy is said to be chasing him. Note the gun. Appears to be at the 32-second mark in pw video


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> They were definitely chasing him and he had been hit from behind previously to hitting the ground. but was still running. To me, it looks like he stumbled and fell but either way, he should have not been there, he should not have been there with a gun. They should not have chased him and were in reality doing the same stupid thing he thought he was doing in the first place. Protecting others.
> 
> If he really is 17 then he was illegally open carrying as well.


What law did he break?

Why should he not be there if others are allowed to be there?

So far this sound like self defense.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Same guy with his hands up before being shot.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> What law did he break?
> 
> Why should he not be there if others are allowed to be there?
> 
> So far this sound like self defense.


The only law I mentioned is open carry when under 18.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

New info. "Cellphone video posted online shows that the ordeal unfolded after one man was shot in the head outside a nearby auto garage. The victim is pictured on the ground on the left while the gunman stands nearby. The videos showed the gunman running away (right) in the moments after the gunshots rang out and he could be heard saying: 'I've just killed somebody' "


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/preview/mol/2020/08/26/2322615217991431206/636x382_MP4_2322615217991431206.mp4



He is interviewed here.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I should have known. 
This thread is about a death.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

painterswife said:


> Same guy with his hands up before being shot.
> View attachment 90469


He was rushing the shooter when he was shot. U can see the gun in his hand.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

It is looking like he shot and killed the first man at the Auto lot and then ran and was chased.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Wolf mom said:


> I'm ready to put her/him on ignore as there certainly isn't any depth or added interest to the comments.


Ignorance is bliss, so they claim.

What I really want is the ability to ignore people on some topics but not others. There are posters who are truly helpful in some areas yet troublemakers in others.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

po boy said:


> He was rushing the shooter when he was shot. U can see the gun in his hand.


True but his hands are up. Gun pointed to the sky. That is really neither here nor there. He had already shot 2 others who died and this was the third.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> It is just a matter of time until the militia types get involved. They may be already. There will come a time, soon, if this stuff keeps going, where the militia types go all in.


What's a militia type?


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

HDRider said:


> It is just a matter of time until the militia types get involved. They may be already. There will come a time, soon, if this stuff keeps going, where the militia types go all in.


That is what the Leftist leaders are hoping for. They want a shooting fight between their "peaceful" (not peaceful) protestors and some white guy with a scary black gun (who, in reality will be defending himself or others from the rabble) The media, no doubt, already has the headlines written.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

blob:https://www.facebook.com/1d8afc93-248c-4b7d-83bd-fef5547cdf80

Video of the first man shot at the auto lot before the shooter ran and then shot others.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> True but his hands are up. Gun pointed to the sky. That is really neither here nor there. He had already shot 2 others who died and this was the third.


He should have been running away. Same as the rifleman was trying to do. Not gun in hand, blocking escape....... 

What I see on film the rifle guy is in the right. No idea on the auto lot situation. 

This is probably going to be a case of who can afford the best lawyer.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

We are splitting hairs on the 17 year old. Let the courts handle him.

The question is why any of this is being allowed to spin out of control. It is growing. It is going to get uglier if they do not stop it.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

At the garage..


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The cellphones in his face are disgusting.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> Where does this say that he shot before anyone attacked?


This report says:








Kyle Rittenhouse Named as Accused Kenosha Shooter


Kyle Rittenhouse is a 17-year-old from Antioch, Illinois, who was arrested after two people were killed, and a third wounded, at protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin.




heavy.com






> Rittenhouse’s name, which was widely shared on social media as the man in a green shirt who *opened fire after being chased* down the street, is contained in the court records. Heavy obtained a court record from the Lake County Courts in Illinois that confirms Kyle Rittenhouse, 17, of Antioch, is being accused in Kenosha County courts in the State of Wisconsin “with the offense of first-degree intentional homicide.” He is accused in a warrant having


This video appears to show him being attacked before shots are fired:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298496272500916225


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Some of the video also shows that he fell to the ground when *they were chasing him*. T*hey tried to take the gun and he recovered and shot them.*


That's self defense.
I think you should wait for all the facts.


Police arrest Kyle Rittenhouse, a 17-year-old from Antioch, Illinois, in connection with Kenosha protest fatal shootings









"The people were shot about 11:45 p.m. Tuesday near a gas station on Sheridan Road where a vigilante group had gathered, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said. Authorities had clashed with protesters near the county courthouse after the city curfew went into effect at 8 p.m., and many in the crowd found themselves approaching the boarded-up gas station.

Cellphone video of at least two of the shootings that was posted online shows a person with a semi-automatic rifle jogging down the middle of a street as a crowd and some police officers follow him.

Someone in the crowd can be heard asking, “What did he do?” and another person responds that the man had shot someone.

The person with the gun stumbles and falls, and as he is approached by people in the crowd, he fires three or four shots from a seated position, hitting at least two people, including one who falls over and another who stumbles away to cries of “Medic! Medic!”

With the crowd scattering, the gunman stands up and continues walking down the street as police cars arrive. The person puts up his hands and walks toward the squad cars, with someone in the crowd yelling at police that he just shot someone, but several of the cars drive past him toward the people who had been shot.

A witness, Julio Rosas, 24, said that when the gunman stumbled and fell, "two people jumped onto him and there was a struggle for control of his rifle. At that point during the struggle, he just began to fire multiple rounds and that dispersed people near him.

*“The rifle was being jerked around in all directions while it was being fired,” Rosas said.*

Pat Mess, whose grandparents live near Sheridan Road and 61st Street – not far from the courthouse where much of the protesting has been centered – visited them Tuesday night in case events escalated. He said he was outside when a group of about 100 people moving south on Sheridan caught his attention.

*About four of them appeared to be chasing a man and, it appeared to him, one of them shoved him to the ground.

“All hell broke loose from there,” Mess said. “That’s when all the shots started breaking out.*

That was when we witnessed the man right here laying on his back with an AR-style rifle. He proceeded to flip over and he fired two shots from that.” "


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's self defense.
> I think you should wait for all the facts.


He already had shot one person. A head shot.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> He already had shot one person. A head shot.


*So you* *say*.
Nothing you've *shown* proves that.
Other reports say the shots were fired* after* he was attacked.
I'll stick to the *credible* sources.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

He was charged with the first murder at the auto lot. He then ran and shot two more people who were trying to take his gun and stop him from escaping. He was charged for the second murder as well. There are plenty of videos that show that. He was a stupid kid from the get go.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> *Same guy* with his hands up before being shot.


The same guy who had a pistol in his hand and had just tried to grab the rifle.
The one near the skateboard had just hit him in the back of the head with it.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Here we go. Another "Based on the evidence so far."
However it looks, "probably" and "likely" and "that one video" aren't final words.
Based on the evidence so far, a whole lot of people were in the wrong place doing the wrong thing last night.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> He was charged with the first murder at the auto lot. He then ran and shot two more people who were trying to take his gun and stop him from escaping. He was charged for the second murder as well. There are plenty of videos that show that. He was a stupid kid from the get go.


Charges aren't convictions.
Nothing you've* shown* proves he shot anyone prior to being attacked himself.
None of the videos show the first shooting you keep *talking* about.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> Here we go. Another "Based on the evidence so far."
> However it looks, "probably" and "likely" and "that one video" aren't final words.
> Based on the evidence so far, a whole lot of people were in the wrong place doing the wrong thing last night.


Forest for the trees. One shooting. There will be more.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> He was a stupid kid from the get go.


There's lots of stupidity going around.
He wasn't stupid enough to attack someone with a rifle.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Charges aren't convictions.
> Nothing you've* shown* proves he shot anyone prior to being attacked himself.
> None of the videos show the first shooting you keep *talking* about.


Only his own words to someone on the phone saying he did.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> True but his hands are up. Gun pointed to the sky. *That is really neither here nor there.* He had already shot 2 others who died and this was the third.














painterswife said:


> Only his own words to someone on the phone saying he did.


So you *say*.
Let's not run around in circles again.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLADE said:


> What's a militia type?


What's a "police admirer"?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> There's lots of stupidity going around.
> He wasn't stupid enough to attack someone with a rifle.


Just stupid enough to be filmed open carrying in a state where is age made it illegal. Then calling someone on the phone to tell them he killed someone.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Video of the first man shot at the auto lot before the shooter ran and then shot others.











This Content Isn't Available Right Now
When this happens, it's usually because the owner only shared it with a small group of people, changed who can see it or it's been deleted.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Just stupid enough to be filmed open carrying in a state where is age made it illegal. Then calling someone on the phone to tell them he killed someone.


Again, so you say.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> He is interviewed here.


That's a link to 9 seconds of silence.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

random said:


> This was with .38's, which are a good bit more powerful than the 9mm or .40's that police generally use today.


The 38 Special dosesn't have half the stopping power of the 9mm or 40's that police use today. I know because I was required to carry one. We all switched to .357, because the 38 Special wouldn't reliably penetrate a car windshield.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Just stupid enough to be filmed open carrying in a state where is age made it illegal. Then calling someone on the phone to tell them he killed someone.


Was he on private property while carrying? Just asking because I don't know the laws there.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Just stupid enough to be filmed open carrying in a state where is age made it illega


How old is he?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

no really said:


> Me I'm pretty well convinced this was well planned and thought out by those with deep pockets and much power.


You only say that because you're highly intelligent and know how things really work.
You're not fooling me.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

TripleD said:


> Was he on private property while carrying? Just asking because I don't know the laws there.


He assume he was on private property during the first shooting. The law in Wisconsin though only allows under 18 to be in possesion of a gun for the purposes of hunting and target practice and accompanied by an adult. That is what I could find in my reading


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> How old is he?


17


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> He assume he was on private property during the first shooting. The law in Wisconsin though only allows under 18 to be in possesion of a gun for the purposes of hunting and target practice and *accompanied by an adult.* That is what I could find in my reading


Maybe there was an "adult" there.
There were quite a few shots fired at the auto dealer's lot.
They weren't all from the same firearm.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Maybe there was an "adult" there.
> There were quite a few shots fired at the auto dealer's lot.
> They weren't all from the same firearm.


Yet it was not hunting or target practise. He documeted that fact on video.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

painterswife said:


> He assume he was on private property during the first shooting. The law in Wisconsin though only allows under 18 to be in possesion of a gun for the purposes of hunting and target practice and accompanied by an adult. That is what I could find in my reading


I had to get clarification. Thanks 👍 . When the nephews and I are working on the rentals duffle bags have many tools !!! One is 17 ...


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Yet it was *not hunting or target practise*. He documeted that fact on video.


Who cares?
It has nothing to do with whether or not he was attacked *before* he fired.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Another trash fire that smells like selective outrage.
A 17 year old that ruined some mostly peaceful protesting.
Hang him now.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Let me guess.
some are wanting to hang him because he’s 17 and carried a gun.
but they’ll want to try him as an adult.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Reporter speaking with the 17 year old prior to the event. About 19 seconds.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298698799670591490


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I think that was satire! I'm glad dad allowed us to carry a handgun as soon as we got our drivers license.. that was at 16. Not legal but clearly fine with him.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The last 5-10 seconds of this video are of the initial contact.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298484022457372672


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Perhaps one day, the pawns on the chessboard will look up and do something about the chessmaster that is moving them about. Or at the very least, quit playing.


----------



## 67drake (May 6, 2020)




----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

If he is 17 and illegally carrying a rifle then they can prosecute him as a minor for carrying a firearm. If they want to prosecute him as a adult then I guess he is legal to carry a rifle. Kind of a obvious difficult deal for a prosecuting attorney to decide on.

Guess we have to wait and see on the shooting at the auto place. 

The shootings on the street, I suspect a decent attorney will take care off fairly easy in favor of the 17 year old child that was running from the mob. 


The local politicians are for sure going to arrest him and charge him so as to pacify the local rioters and protestors. The local politicians and police are not likely to concerned at this time if he is guilty or not.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I expect they won't even bother with the open carry charge. They could even reduce the second killing charges to manslaughter. He definitely looks like he had good intentions just a really crappy follow through.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Now you’re an “expert“ on the American justice system too?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> Now you’re an “expert“ on the American justice system too?


Lisa how about you leave me personally out of it and talk about the thread instead.

I am not the topic.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Redlands Okie said:


> The local politicians are for sure going to arrest him and charge him so as to pacify the local rioters and protestors. The local politicians and police are not likely to concerned at this time if he is guilty or not.


Exactly.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Lisa how about you leave me personally out of it and talk about the thread instead.


Jill, you’re expounding on what the prosecutor might do and I’m curious what background you have to speak so authoritatively on the justice system here in the US.
You’ve also asked many people here about their experience pertaining to various topics and talked about your own, so I’m not getting why you’re complaining.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

From the video, there are two different calibers that can be heard, possibly the kid and the guy with the other gun that was shot in the arm. Or not.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

From the second video posted, at just under the minute mark there is a guy that appears to be chasing the kid and throws something at him. He then chases him between the vehicles where he is shot.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> From the second video posted, at just under the minute mark there is a guy that appears to be chasing the kid and throws something at him. He then chases him between the vehicles where he is shot.


That sounds like what I’d seen earlier.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

GTX63 said:


> From the second video posted, at just under the minute mark there is a guy that appears to be chasing the kid and throws something at him. He then chases him between the vehicles where he is shot.


Not sure which video u r referring to but there is one with him running and it appears someone threw a Molotov cocktail at him



__ https://www.facebook.com/1351684088/posts/10224723313494168


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

He is in custody. It wouldn't have mattered if he was the Pope's barber. He was going behind bars to keep rioters from burning everything in Kenosha but the city limit sign.
A lot of people will be jumping out of their barcalounger screaming "guilty" while others deny it based on their twitter and facebook groups.
This story is developing but it isn't over yet.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Looks like there is enough video out there for the forensics people to piece together what happened.
I just hope the truth is accepted....whatever it is.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Here is a compilation of events with a little better resolution on some of the video.
There is a clear sequence of the first shooting victim chasing the 17 year old and throwing something at him before being shot.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Appeasement is a losing strategy.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

painterswife said:


> Reports are that they chased him after they believed he shot or shot at another man.


Guilty until proven innocent?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> From the second video posted, at just under the minute mark there is a guy that appears to be chasing the kid and throws something at him. He then chases him between the vehicles where he is shot.


I saw a screenshot from a video that supposedly shows someone at the auto shop throwing something at the shooter before he fired any shots. I'm trying to find the video. 

It's clear there were different people shooting before anyone was shot in the head. It's not clear who they were or at whom they were shooting.

I've also heard the business belonged to his father, but I've seen no confirmation of that either.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

So, if the rifle carrier is 17 years young will he be tried as a minor ?

Will a good lawyer make a lot of money by suing those that attacked the 17 year old child, and the relatives of the people that attacked the 17 year old child?

Will be interesting to see what a good lawyer can do with the city on such a problem, a 17 year old child being attacked on the city street and attempting to blame him for defending himself. He ran to the police and apparently tried to surrender and get help and was ignored. 

Does not really matter if he is convicted or innocent it seems from seeing other cases in the news. It’s common for criminals to win law suits and money due to their criminal activities.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Reports are that they chased him after they believed he shot or shot at another man.


What people claim they "believe" quite often isn't always the same as *reality*.


----------



## 67drake (May 6, 2020)

Crazy. I used to live literally 2 blocks from this service station. I can’t tell if it’s boarded up to prevent vandalism or if it was not in operation. I haven’t been by there in at least a year or two. My son who lives on the north side of town was guarding a friends business. They literally stood outside with rifles to show any protesters to go elsewhere. No vandalism in that neighborhood. My son and daughter in law texted me tonight that gas stations were told to shut their pumps off at curfew to prevent people from filling gas cans after the station was closed. I don’t know why they wouldn’t have done this BEFORE tonight?


----------



## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

Redlands Okie said:


> Generally speaking if the situation comes to the point of guns being involved then you shoot until your gun is empty.


Slight correction. You fire until the threat is stopped.


SLADE said:


> That will play out well.


If we go by last nights game, looks like the score is this:

Seventeen tear old with gun protecting a gas station from rioters: 3

Rioters burning down the city: 0

This might be the beginning of the rise of the silent majority who is tired of this crap.. Next time a cop shoots a black guy (justified or not), there will be even more people grabbing their guns to protect their families and their friends from the Marxist mobs that are sure to follow.

Of course, the real losers in this game are the hard working folks who just want to build a future for themselves and their families, but had it burned up by leftists/marxists.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Non-Profit and Charity Fundraisers | Fundly


Check out Non-Profit and Charity fundraising campaigns going on right now.




fundly.com







> 17 year old Kyle Rittenhouse is facing charges of 1st Degree Intentional Homicide after protecting his life and shooting 3 attackers in Kenosha, Wisconsin on August 26th. 80% to Kyle Rittenhouse - 20% to non-profits


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Gaslighting at it's most absurd. 
The caption below should pretty well summerize the media of 2020 and sympathizers of violence using their own words.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Life imitating art maybe...never thought the "Naked Gun" would be so prophetic.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

He's the first one shot, after *he* attacked the shooter:




__





Scallywag and Vagabond


Scallywag and Vagabond covers breaking news events with social commentary along with popular culture, the arts and fashion



scallywagandvagabond.com





*"Joseph Rosenbaum Kenosha Wisconsin man i’d as first fatal shooting victim at hands of Kyle Rittenhouse. Video appears to show teen shooting registered sex offender in self defense.*
Social media has identified a 36 year old registered sex offender as the individual who was fatally shot at the hands of teen Kenosha gunman, *Kyle Rittenhouse*.

*Joseph Don Rosenbaum* was allegedly shown on video giving chasing to the teen shooter & throwing something at him *according to journalist*, *Andy Ngo*. Rosenbaum is understood to be a registered sex offender for a sex crime *involving a minor in 2002*. "


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

This is the one shot in the arm while holding a pistol
(Felon in possession of a firearm):
Gaige P Grosskreutz Mugshot and Arrest Record ID: 44305921 (Ashland, Wisconsin)


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The posted quote below is from an outside thread by a member who had been adamantly calling the 17 year old a "MURDERER" who killed in cold blood. He said repeatedly this kid should be tried as an adult, locked up and the key thrown away. "Murderer" was in multiple responses.
He was advised by numerous other posters, including the mod, to wait for the complete story before passing such heavy judgment. Several of his posts contained a phrase seen here too often *"Based on the evidence I've seen so far..."*
After more video over several hours, from multiple angles and better clarity began to be uploaded he posted this-
_
"I've been hunting down footage because I want to be sure what I'm seeing, and obviously want to see all the evidence. 

Found these same videos after some searching. It looks like the aggressor was the guy with the red shirt on his head. He threw a Molotov cocktail at the kid as he was chasing him through the parking lot. He continued to chase, and it looks like he's seemingly screaming "**** you and '"shoot me'" as he charges him between the cars, and the kid in the green turns and fires, striking him in the head. 

I was saying it looked like murder earlier. Now it looks like self-defense. And I have no problem correcting that and saying I was wrong, but I was solely basing it upon the information we had at the time. More information and video has come out, and has clarified things more. I do believe this is self-defense, and would support that claim.

Guy who had his arm shredded also looks to have had a handgun he had drawn while the kid was on the ground. Nothing but self-defense. Through and through."_

A little less knee jerk, a little less agenda and maybe some of the ideological division, and a few of the fires, could be 
prevented.

BTW, this kid has been proven neither innocent nor guilty. That time will come.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

This one thought attacking a man holding a rifle with a skateboard was a good idea:










"The girlfriend of Anthony Huber, one of two men killed in Kenosha, spoke briefly to protesters late Wednesday near the spot where he died the night before.

“He was one of the most amazing people ... “ Hannah Gittings said. “He had so much love in his heart for this city ...* he took down an armed gunman with nothing but his f——— skateboard*, and he took that f——— bullet,” she said before breaking down in tears."


----------



## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

When BFF asks "Whose fault is that?" and you, IP, reply, "Your fault, of course." BFF then states "That's not possible or rational." Your reply is " So many things aren't, but they occur."
BFF then tries to end the dialogue by stating he's "not taking your bait this morning." The last word is by you saying "That's lovely. Thank you"

It makes me wonder why in the world you, IP, have the audacity to report others for what you just very obviously did.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Wolf mom said:


> When BFF asks "Whose fault is that?" and you, IP, reply, "Your fault, of course." BFF then states "That's not possible or rational." Your reply is " So many things aren't, but they occur."
> BFF then tries to end the dialogue by stating he's "not taking your bait this morning." The last word is by you saying "That's lovely. Thank you"
> 
> It makes me wonder why in the world you, IP, have the audacity to report others for what you just very obviously did.


I haven't reported anything other than personal insults to other members after being threatened with banning over the "speed reporting" and "maintenance user" rule added in March 2019. Prior, I was following the admins suggestion of reporting rather than back and forth bickering that leads to personal attacks.

And you'll just have to wonder, I guess.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Wolf mom said:


> When BFF asks "Whose fault is that?" and you, IP, reply, "Your fault, of course." BFF then states "That's not possible or rational." Your reply is " So many things aren't, but they occur."
> BFF then tries to end the dialogue by stating he's "not taking your bait this morning." The last word is by you saying "That's lovely. Thank you"
> 
> It makes me wonder why in the world you, IP, have the audacity to report others for what you just very obviously did.


Shallow end of the gene pool perhaps?


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> This one thought attacking a man holding a rifle with a skateboard was a good idea:


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

A catnap is calming.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I'd think even a non cat person would have trouble with bitter and hate watching little Mouser there sleep off his rodential dinner.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

kinderfeld said:


> View attachment 90499


BRAVO!!


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

From a mod standpoint, suggesting that an individual member, who doesn't appear to have been arrested for a shooting, is responsible, is insulting, slanderous and could be interpreted as bullying.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Wolf mom said:


> It makes me wonder why in the world you, IP, have the audacity to report others for what you just very obviously did.


Patterns never change, it seems.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> From a mod standpoint, suggesting that an individual member, who doesn't appear to have been arrested for a shooting, is responsible, is insulting, slanderous and could be interpreted as bullying.


From a member point of view can you point out which post you are referring to in this thread. 

It is just that so many accusations are made in so many threads about people that have not been arrested, I am wondering what post in this thread crosses that line?


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Three isn't a high number, but it is a good start. Perhaps this 17 year old boy will be the start of something. Arson, looting, and rioting isn't protesting. Anyone who goes out with the intent of terrorizing a city, to make a political point is a terrorist. This 17 year old just showed us how to deal with terrorism.

The fact that he was able to pull off a head shot, while under attack, is damm fine shooting.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> From a member point of view can you point out *which post* you are referring to in this thread.


It's really not hard to find if you use some simple logic.
There are few possibilities.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The Wisconsin Department of Justice (DOJ) Division of Criminal Investigation (DCI) reported late on Wednesday that Jacob Blake, the man who was shot by a police officer in Kenosha on Sunday, had a weapon the floorboard of his car.

“Kenosha Police Department officers were dispatched to a residence in the 2800 block of 40th Street after a female caller reported that her boyfriend was present and was not supposed to be on the premises,” the department said. “During the incident, officers attempted to arrest Jacob S. Blake, age 29. Law enforcement deployed a taser to attempt to stop Mr. Blake, however the taser was not successful in stopping Mr. Blake.”


----------



## StL.Ed (Mar 6, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Reports are that they chased him after they believed he shot or shot at another man.


An analysis from, of all places, The New York Times, including the first shootin...








Tracking the Suspect in the Fatal Kenosha Shootings (Published 2020)


Footage appears to show a teenager shooting three people during protests in Wisconsin. We tracked his movements that night.




www.nytimes.com







> About 15 minutes before the first shooting, police officers drive past Mr. Rittenhouse, and the other armed civilians who claim to be protecting the dealership, and offer water out of appreciation.
> 
> Mr. Rittenhouse walks up to a police vehicle carrying his rifle and talks with the officers.
> He eventually leaves the dealership and is barred by the police from returning. Six minutes later footage shows Mr. Rittenhouse being chased by an unknown group of people into the parking lot of another dealership several blocks away.
> ...


If the facts are as the Times stated, it sounds like a case of self defense to me.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Ya have ta wonder. What kind of a person would hate protest but love and support murder.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLADE said:


> Ya have ta wonder. What kind of a person would hate protest but love and support murder.


Who hates protests?

Who supports (loves!) murder


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

SLADE said:


> Ya have ta wonder. What kind of a person would hate protest but love and support murder.


I wonder why some people are judge and jury!


----------



## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

People on drugs, that steal stuff, that abuse their family members, need to be corralled and held accountable.

when he ignores the police, fights the police, shows a wepon, and runs to the vehicle where his family, that he has had many abuse calls over, he needs to be stopped.

if this is your ‘hero’ then you areno better then he is.

Get out of the way and let honest, caring people live their life.

What a mixed up group of people.

murders and drug users and thieves are your heroes.

unbelievable.

Paul


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

StL.Ed said:


> An analysis from, of all places, The New York Times, including the first shootin...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like at least one media outlet might have learned something after the Covington Catholic debacle.


----------



## 67drake (May 6, 2020)

SLADE said:


> Ya have ta wonder. What kind of a person would hate protest but love and support murder.


I have no problem with protest. I DO have a problem with people who want to burn down and steal my stuff!
Don’t touch MY stuff, no shooting. Pretty simple.


----------



## random (Jul 23, 2020)

Redlands Okie said:


> The rifle carrier was being chased down the street. Knocked down and attacked. While still on the ground, and being attacked he shot at least two of the attackers. The mob backed off and the rifle carrier got up and ran to the police, who seemed to ignore him. All filmed. Now most of the films being shown on the news cuts out at the point of the guy defending himself.


I recall much the same back with Rodney King. They never played the full video. I've seen it - It gives a rather different perspective on what happened, and that's what the jury went by. But the vast majority of people never saw all of it.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

SLADE said:


> Ya have ta wonder. What kind of a person would hate protest but love and support murder.


I also have no problem with anyone exercising their right to peacefully protest but I don't believe that property destruction, looting, burning and beatings meet the definition of a peaceful protest. Wouldn't you agree?

Murder is a legal term and I offer no support for someone convicted of muder and haven't actually met anyone who does support such conduct.

I do support the right to self defence and I'm very certain I would have protected the lives my children from physical harm or death with lethal force and strongly suggest most would. If you call that 'loving murder' I'll accept your position.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

random said:


> I recall much the same back with Rodney King. They never played the full video. I've seen it - It gives a rather different perspective on what happened, and that's what the jury went by. But the vast majority of people never saw all of it.


I just read there are 23 unsolved murders that occurred during the Rodney King riots. I can't imagine what those families have been left to deal with.


----------



## random (Jul 23, 2020)

HDRider said:


> Forest for the trees. One shooting. There will be more.


I fear we are witnessing the end of the United States of America. I don't see how we move forward from where we are.


muleskinner2 said:


> The 38 Special dosesn't have half the stopping power of the 9mm or 40's that police use today. I know because I was required to carry one. We all switched to .357, because the 38 Special wouldn't reliably penetrate a car windshield.


A little more than half, actually, but I checked and you are correct. I must have misremembered. The rest of my statements stands, however.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

random said:


> I fear we are witnessing the end of the United States of America. I don't see how we move forward from where we are.


Obviously I cannot offer any guarantee, but I don't think so.

Our society is like a pendulum that swings wide. This madness will peak, and we will swing back. 

I have faith in the American people. Bad apples rot, and disappear.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> This madness will peak, and *we will swing back*.


Hopefully with a club.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

kinderfeld said:


> Hopefully with a club.


I admit it, I love double entendres

Cellophane flowers of yellow and green
Towering over your head
Look for the girl with the sun in her eyes
And she's gone

Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Aaaaahhhhh...


----------



## random (Jul 23, 2020)

HDRider said:


> Obviously I cannot offer any guarantee, but I don't think so.
> 
> Our society is like a pendulum that swings wide. This madness will peak, and we will swing back.
> 
> I have faith in the American people. Bad apples rot, and disappear.


This is a case where I fervently hope that I am wrong.


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

SLADE said:


> Ya have ta wonder. What kind of a person would hate protest but love and support murder.


Nah... I wonder what kind of person calls arson, looting and pillaging, destruction of property, trying to burn others to death, throwing bricks at people, trying to blind people with lasers, etc., etc., etc. ...protests???


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

random said:


> This is a case where I fervently hope that I am wrong.


I too hope you are wrong... but I have a great fear you are not.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLADE said:


> Ya have ta wonder. What kind of a person would hate protest but love and support murder.


There was no "murder".
I have to wonder why so many choose to ignore the truth.

How much air-time will this case get?








South Carolina college student, stepfather fatally shot in head on front lawn over fender bender: reports


A South Carolina college student and her stepfather were shot dead in the front lawn Monday in a road rage related attack after a minor fender bender in the driveway.




www.foxnews.com




*"South Carolina college student, stepfather fatally shot in head on front lawn over fender bender"















*


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

If one doesn't comprehend the definition of murder, they may have jumped into a thread too deep for their floaties.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

GTX63 said:


> If one doesn't comprehend the definition of murder, they may have jumped into a thread too deep for their floaties.


Or if one intentionally uses such words, while knowing the definition, they are trying to cause harm to others.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLADE said:


> Ya have ta wonder. What kind of a person would hate protest but love and support murder.


What murder ?


----------



## birdman1 (Oct 3, 2011)

with people getting huge settlements and huger street corner hero statice by getting beat up on cell phone videos by police ,the local petty crimanimals ,drug addicts , are bateing the police willing to take a few lumps or bullets to get a few mill of tax payers cash , what the heck they'r getting beat up n shot any way , so why not ? with the city goverments handing out licences to stealand get out of jail free cards to looters its a win win for thieveing junkies and hard core carrier criminals,


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)




----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Empower Wisconsin reported, Kenosha police and U.S. Marshal agents stopped a caravan of vehicles filled with fuel cans and illegal fireworks — thanks to a citizen tip.


Officers located a black school bus, bread truck, and minivan and took up surveillance, according to the incident report. Police then followed the vehicles to a gas station where they observed the occupants of the black bus and bread truck fill multiple cans of gas.

Police say the vehicles contained various items, including helmets, gas masks, protective vests, illegal fireworks, and suspected controlled substances. Nine individuals were arrested for disorderly conduct and are awaiting charging decisions by the Kenosha County district attorney, according to the incident report.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

But they aren't organized and are peaceful.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

I'm wondering who armed Kyle Rittenhouse and if they will face charges. News stories are saying it was not his gun, but a friends.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> I'm wondering who armed Kyle Rittenhouse and if they will face charges. News stories are saying it was not his gun, but a friends.


Fail


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

HDRider said:


> Fail


A failure of good judgement...


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> A failure of good judgement...


A failure on your part to draw a parallel. Big fat stinky fail


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

HDRider said:


> A failure on your part to draw a parallel. Big fat stinky fail


What parallel?

I recently saw a report about the gun belonging to a friend.

Don't you wonder why a 17 year old was walking around armed that night? 
One minute he's cleaning graffiti, then he says there as a "paramedic", and finally he's armed.
Where did the gun come from, and who thought it was a good idea for him to be carrying one?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> What parallel?
> 
> I recently saw a report about the gun belonging to a friend.
> 
> ...


I think he felt compelled. This is going to get nasty if the idiot mayors and governors don't wise up


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

doozie said:


> A failure of good judgement...





doozie said:


> What parallel?
> 
> I recently saw a report about the gun belonging to a friend.
> 
> ...



The failure of good judgement belongs to the 3 thugs, one that attempted to fire bomb the kid, then others that CHASED the kid down and assaulted him several times. Thankfully he was armed and used good skills in defending himself. 

I have no problem with a responsible armed 17 year old walking anywhere at anytime. No idea who thought it was a good idea for him to have the gun but it VERY OBVIOUS that it was a good idea. Once again, one thug attempted to firebomb him, two others, one armed with a pistol and the other using a skate board as a club CHASED the kid down and attacked him. While the kid was being attacked on the ground and trying to avoid the attackers he shot two of his attackers. No bystanders hurt, what move could one expect. 

Who provided the pistol to the felon that attacked the kid ? Where did it come from ? Was that a good idea ?


People really really need to watch the numerous recording provided by the rioters of the situation.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> What parallel?
> 
> I recently saw a report about the gun belonging to a friend.
> 
> Don't you wonder why a 17 year old was walking around armed that night?


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Calvin Leon Graham (April 3, 1930 – November 6, 1992) was the youngest U.S. serviceman to serve and fight during World War II. Following the attack on Pearl Harbor, he enlisted in the United States Navy from Houston, Texas on August 15, 1942, at the age of *12*.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Redlands Okie said:


> The failure of good judgement belongs to the 3 thugs, one that attempted to fire bomb the kid, then others that CHASED the kid down and assaulted him several times. Thankfully he was armed and used good skills in defending himself.
> 
> I have no problem with a responsible armed 17 year old walking anywhere at anytime. No idea who thought it was a good idea for him to have the gun but it VERY OBVIOUS that it was a good idea. Once again, one thug attempted to firebomb him, two others, one armed with a pistol and the other using a skate board as a club CHASED the kid down and attacked him. While the kid was being attacked on the ground and trying to avoid the attackers he shot two of his attackers. No bystanders hurt, what move could one expect.
> 
> ...


In no way do I feel anyone involved should have been out after the curfew was set.

Probably should have rounded the whole lot up and got them all off the streets IMO.

Sure, check into the felon in possession of a gun too.

However, I do feel the person that armed The 17 year old him bears some responsibility for the predicament Kyle Rittenhouse finds himself in. Did Kyle and his friend not know the laws? 
Sheesh, first mistake right there....
Time will tell.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

po boy said:


> Calvin Leon Graham (April 3, 1930 – November 6, 1992) was the youngest U.S. serviceman to serve and fight during World War II. Following the attack on Pearl Harbor, he enlisted in the United States Navy from Houston, Texas on August 15, 1942, at the age of *12*.


He lied.
Impressive though.








Calvin Graham - IMDb


Calvin Leon Graham was born in Canton, Texas on 3 April 1930. The youngest of seven children, Calvin's claim to fame was when he lied about his age ...




www.imdb.com





After his mother found out where her son had been, she contacted the Navy and his true age was revealed. He was subsequently thrown in the brig at Naval Air Station Corpus Christi, Texas where he was held for almost three months.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I think his mother should be brought up on charges.
She brought him there and trucked him away.
I thought Wisconsin does not allow a 17 year old to have an AR 15.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

HDRider said:


> View attachment 90568


Your point?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> Your point?


You would not understand if I have to explain


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

HDRider said:


> You would not understand if I have to explain
> [/QUOTE
> 
> I'm going to assume it's a parallel... Jungle to Kenosha USA, LOL


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

How old you think that guy is in the pic?


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

HDRider said:


> How old you think that guy is in the pic?


You tell me, and let me know if he's been wandering the Kenosha streets...


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

The 17 yr old was proficient and did well! Don't bring it on if you can't handle what could happen...


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

I'd hate to have my son at 17 (or any age for that matter) bear the weight of killing not one but two people, no matter what the circumstances.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

doozie said:


> I'd hate to have my son at 17 (or any age for that matter) bear the weight of killing not one but two people, no matter what the circumstances.


If someone was kicking down the door to your house what would you want him to do? You would be thankful or curl up against a corner?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> I'd hate to have my son at 17 (or any age for that matter) bear the weight of killing not one but two people, no matter what the circumstances.


Told you


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

TripleD said:


> If someone was kicking down the door to your house what would you want him to do? You would be thankful or curl up against a corner?


That's the thing, it wasn't the door to his house, it wasn't in his front yard, he shouldn't have been armed, or in the situation at all.


----------



## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

You don't pick up a gun if you don't intend to use it and have processed the ramifications of it's use.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

You are the one who said no matter the circumstance. If it " does" come to the small towns or rural areas it's a different deal. William isn't going to step over others and keep on coming. Incert any names you care...


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

TripleD said:


> You are the one who said no matter the circumstance. If it " does" come to the small towns or rural areas it's a different deal. William isn't going to step over others and keep on coming. Incert any names you care...


Dont think for a minute I wouldn't be concerned for my child's mental well being after they shot someone dead, no matter what the circumstances...

Your picture is very different from the circumstances surrounding the situation Kenosha Kyle found himself in.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Wolf mom said:


> You don't pick up a gun if you don't intend to use it and have processed the ramifications of it's use.


Or lend one.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

doozie said:


> Dont think for a minute I wouldn't be concerned for my child's mental well being after they shot someone dead, no matter what the circumstances...
> 
> Your picture is very different from the circumstances surrounding the situation Kenosha Kyle found himself in.


We have 18 yr olds in the military. You don't have to answer my question. Home defense or just close your eyes. Circumstance can change on a dime...


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

TripleD said:


> We have 18 yr olds in the military. You don't have to answer my question. Home defense or just close your eyes. Circumstance can change on a dime...


Not the same thing, not at all.


----------



## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

The Russians let the Bolsheviks get away with this krappe a century ago. Look at what is cost the world. These Bolsheviks should NOT be tolerated at all. If the government won't deal with them, the people should.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Crazy chaos talk with a total disregard for peoples lives and rule of law.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLADE said:


> Crazy chaos talk with a total disregard for peoples lives and rule of law.


So why are the rioters allowed to continue to do so ?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

doozie said:


> I'd hate to have my son at 17 (or any age for that matter) bear the weight of killing not one but two people, *no matter what the circumstances*.


Would you rather he let a mob beat him to death?


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

“However, I do feel the person that armed The 17 year old him bears some responsibility for the predicament Kyle Rittenhouse finds himself in.”

The person that armed the 17 year old partly bears the responsibility for Kyle Rittenhouse being ALIVE after at least 3 attempts by rioters appearing to be trying to kill him. 





doozie said:


> I'd hate to have my son at 17 (or any age for that matter) bear the weight of killing not one but two people, no matter what the circumstances.


If your son finds himself in a dangerous predicament I hope he LIVES, so that your son is able to deal with the issue (not some thug that was enjoying the predicament). No matter the circumstances.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Would you rather he let a mob beat him to death?


You're not going to get a response. My old departed granddad killed a man at 12. The man kicked in the door. He told me the worst part was cleaning up the house.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Would you rather he let a mob beat him to death?


Where are you getting that idea from? Just ridiculous.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

TripleD said:


> You're not going to get a response. My old departed granddad killed a man at 12. The man kicked in the door. He told me the worst part was cleaning up the house.


Seems some people have a hard time dealing with realities of life. You granddad probably did not have cleaning materials and stain blocking paint like we do in present times. Their use is not unusual in some large city neighbor hoods. Just does not make the 15 to 30 second news blurb.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

TripleD said:


> You're not going to get a response.


I know.
Doozie only asks more questions...


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

The Kenosha situation can be analyzed for ever with the what if, should have, could have ideas. The reality is what did happen and the options available right then, right there. Similar to the same positions some police officers find themselves in. It’s easy to set back with 20/20 hindsight and set on the couch and referee what “should” have been done. 

For instance, the city of Kenosha bureaucracy could have prevented all of the problems. No property damage, no deaths, no court trials, no families having to deal with the loss of their loved ones. No need for the people having to deal with mental issues from what happened. Every single one of the problems would not exist if the Kenosha police and politicians had prevented this from being allowed to grow into the situation it did. It’s just that simple.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Redlands Okie said:


> Seems some people have a hard time dealing with realities of life. You granddad probably did not have cleaning materials and stain blocking paint like we do in present times. Their use is not unusual in some large city neighbor hoods. Just does not make the 15 to 30 second news blurb.


Granddad joined the military 5 yrs later. He made it back home. I have his flag in my oak show case. He would be over 100 now...


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

doozie said:


> *Where* are you getting that idea from? Just ridiculous.


From your own statement, which I quoted and highlighted to make it simple for you to understand. 



doozie said:


> I'd hate to have my son at 17 (or any age for that matter) bear the weight of killing not one but two people, *no matter what the circumstances.*


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Redlands Okie said:


> “However, I do feel the person that armed The 17 year old him bears some responsibility for the predicament Kyle Rittenhouse finds himself in.”
> 
> The person that armed the 17 year old partly bears the responsibility for Kyle Rittenhouse being ALIVE after at least 3 attempts by rioters appearing to be trying to kill him.
> 
> ...



It's almost as if you want to disregard my opinion that he shouldn't have been there in the first place, let alone armed with the friends gun.
And no, I sure don't want my kid to be in a situation that ends with anyone getting killed, no matter what the circumstances, who the hell would ?!?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

doozie said:


> Where are you getting that idea from? Just ridiculous.





Bearfootfarm said:


> Doozie only asks more questions...


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I know.
> Doozie only asks more questions...


been there, done that. 
not worth engaging.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

doozie said:


> It's almost as if you want to disregard my opinion that he shouldn't have been there in the first place, let alone armed with the friends gun.
> And no, *I sure don't want my kid to be in a situation that ends with anyone getting killed*, no matter what the circumstances, who the hell would ?!?


None of them "should have" been there. 
But they were, so "should have" is meaningless rhetoric now.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

doozie said:


> It's almost as if you want to disregard my opinion that he shouldn't have been there in the first place, let alone armed with the friends gun.
> And no, I sure don't want my kid to be in a situation that ends with anyone getting killed, no matter what the circumstances, who the hell would ?!?


I agree with your opinion that he should not have been there to start with. The rioters should not have been either. But they were and life happens. 

What we want for our kids has little to do with life, what is important is if they have been prepared for life, real life. Not life as it should be, or desired to be. Can the children handle the after affects of a robbing gone bad that results in a death? A rape or beating ? Can they handle a random drive by shooting or road rage situation and its results? Can they handle extreme financial difficulties and the temptations and stress to be dealt with as a result? A marriage going bad? Have the children been prepared and able to handle real life, when things happen that should not have? That’s what is important. 



Being armed with a gun was not the problem, why make it seem like it was?


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Redlands Okie said:


> I agree with your opinion that he should not have been there to start with. The rioters should not have been either. But they were and life happens.
> 
> What we want for our kids has little to do with life, what is important is if they have been prepared for life, real life. Not life as it should be, or desired to be. Can the children handle the after affects of a robbing gone bad that results in a death? A rape or beating ? Can they handle a random drive by shooting or road rage situation and its results? Can they handle extreme financial difficulties and the temptations and stress to be dealt with as a result? A marriage going bad? Have the children been prepared and able to handle real life, when things happen that should not have? That’s what is important.
> 
> ...



But it really IS the problem here, at least for the seventeen year old, possibly the friend.
I questioned if he or his friend knew the laws regarding a seventeen year old in posession of the gun. Their first mistake made is undeniable.
He was parading around with the gun before any confrontation on video.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

doozie said:


> Where are you getting that idea from? Just ridiculous.



Do you not have any facts about what happened? For Pete's sake, educate yourself. The photos and pictures are out there. The young man was protecting a business along with some other guys. There is a photo of him and the others removing graffiti from the boarded up business before this all happened. He was not there looking for trouble. As for shooting the first guy, look at the picture taken when he shot. He was on his back and the rioter was in midair about to stomp on his head. I would have shot too and if you wouldn't have, you are a fool. Here's an interview with him before it all happened wearing the same clothes. Listen and try to tell us he was looking for trouble or deserves any blame.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298657958205820928


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

doozie said:


> He was *parading around with the gun* before any confrontation on video.


That's a misdemeanor.
He wasn't causing trouble for anyone was he?


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

doozie said:


> But it really IS the problem here, at least for the seventeen year old, possibly the friend.
> I questioned if he or his friend knew the laws regarding a seventeen year old in posession of the gun. Their first mistake made is undeniable.
> He was parading around with the gun before any confrontation on video.


I have no idea what they knew about the laws and age restrictions. 

Parading around with the gun is an interpretation I guess. 

I will say that we can all do the should have and could have routines. He might go to jail for the shootings, he might get in trouble for being underage with a weapon, he might have bad memories from the whole situation, he might walk away free, but because he was able to defend himself and did so he is ALIVE. He can now worry about what life is going to bring him and what should have happened or is going to happen. Because he is ALIVE.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Well, to quote Joe Kenda "My My My."
It seems the peaceful protestor, also known now as Lefty, or Bicep Boy, was livestreaming.
He knew Kyle was going to the police because Kyle told him so. He was going after him to kill him.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

doozie said:


> But it really IS the problem here, at least for the seventeen year old, possibly the friend.
> I questioned if he or his friend knew the laws regarding a seventeen year old in posession of the gun. Their first mistake made is undeniable.
> He was parading around with the gun before any confrontation on video.


I've worn a firearm countless times in a public area, but I've never considered doing so "parading."
Please specify the difference?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

doozie said:


> Where are you getting that idea from? Just ridiculous.


If you watch the actual video a few posts up from the convicted felon that was live streaming, yes, his intent was to kill him.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> I've worn a firearm countless times in a public area, but I've never considered doing so "parading."
> Please specify the difference?


It's a figure of speech...


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> It's a figure of speech...


It is hyperbolic


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

In this case a pejorative but I understand the intent.
As I have said, details on this case are still forthcoming and will be in the public eye until another one takes over the news, which would have happened last night.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Mr. Blake didn't die, he was shot multiple times in front of his children.


He was violating a restraining order.
The main stream media said he was breaking up a fight, but the cops were there because his ex called them.
Don't make a martyr of a criminal.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> Don't make a martyr of a criminal.


Again, and again, and again


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I understand a cause, but it doesn't help to keep using the dregs as your poster child.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Cornhusker said:


> He was violating a restraining order.
> The main stream media said he was breaking up a fight, but the cops were there because his ex called them.
> Don't make a martyr of a criminal.


Not the first time Mr. Blake has behaved in this manner.
He wasn't supposed to be on the property. But he was.
The police knew of the warrant for sexual assault and the restraining order enroute.

Curious how baby mamma would have handled him being there if the police had been defunded and she had to rely on the unarmed Social Mental Health Rangers to intevene.

Just to add, she has never been married to the man, in spite of having 3 children together. She has described their relationship and "On and Off", however now, with the impending law suit against the po po, she has labeled herself his "Fiance."


----------



## random (Jul 23, 2020)

> I'd hate to have my son at 17 (or any age for that matter) bear the weight of killing not one but two people, no matter what the circumstances.


My son is 18. While I agree I would not want him to "bear the weight" of killing someone, I would very much prefer he bear that weight than get killed. _No matter what the circumstances._


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

doozie said:


> I'm wondering who armed Kyle Rittenhouse and if they will face charges. News stories are saying it was not his gun, but a friends.


It was a rifle...not a gun.


doozie said:


> I'd hate to have my son at 17 (or any age for that matter) bear the weight of killing not one but two people, no matter what the circumstances.


In this case, it was probably a public service.


----------



## random (Jul 23, 2020)

kinderfeld said:


> It was a rifle...not a gun.


"This is my rifle, this is my gun"?


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

poppy said:


> Do you not have any facts about what happened? For Pete's sake, educate yourself. The photos and pictures are out there. The young man was protecting a business along with some other guys. There is a photo of him and the others removing graffiti from the boarded up business before this all happened. He was not there looking for trouble. As for shooting the first guy, look at the picture taken when he shot. He was on his back and the rioter was in midair about to stomp on his head. I would have shot too and if you wouldn't have, you are a fool. Here's an interview with him before it all happened wearing the same clothes. Listen and try to tell us he was looking for trouble or deserves any blame.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298657958205820928


I don't recall ever saying he was looking for trouble, I questioned who armed him.
If it were your kid wouldn't you want to know.
Heck some where almost seem want to thank the person.

And then look where where the kid sits now.

Silence from the other guys he was with and the business he was protecting.

I think there will be more to the story though.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

doozie said:


> I don't recall ever saying he was looking for trouble, I questioned who armed him.
> If it were your kid wouldn't you want to know.
> Heck some where almost seem want to thank the person.
> 
> ...


So you think is was let's go kill some protesters? I camped out at the office a few weeks ago on the advice of the chief... They even changed the protest route to the other side of the street
..


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

TripleD said:


> So you think is was let's go kill some protesters? I camped out at the office a few weeks ago on the advice of the chief... They even changed the protest route to the other side of the street
> ..


What are you even talking about....

I wondered about who armed him, and why the silence now.

Why is that such a sticking point, and why are you twisting what I post.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

doozie said:


> What are you even talking about....
> 
> I wondered about who armed him, and why the silence now.
> 
> Why is that such a sticking point, and why are you twisting what I post.


Was there an adult with him? I had my own long gun at 10 and my brother at 8. If there was one it's easy to get seperated...


----------



## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

doozie said:


> It's a figure of speech...


RIIGGHHTTT.... Just a figure of speech.

Funny how Trump never gets the same leeway in his speech.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

doozie said:


> *Silence* from the other guys he was with and the business he was protecting.


The "silence" is from the media.
They only want you to hear part of the story.



doozie said:


> Why is that such a sticking point, and why are you twisting what I post.


No one has to twist anything you post.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

doozie said:


> What are you even talking about....
> 
> I wondered about who armed him, and why the silence now.
> 
> Why is that such a sticking point, and why are you twisting what I post.


What makes you think anyone armed him? He likely was smart enough to arm himself. His shooting ability under extreme pressure shows he was not unfamiliar with that type of firearm. Being from Illinois too, I can assure you that outside the Chicago area, most boys his age are familiar with firearms. There are also a lot of firearms in Chicago itself but only the ones in certain areas of the city actually shoot people regularly.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Who armed him?
Look to his mother.
The proficiency he showed with a semi automatic rifle is beyond what most adults would ever achieve during an adrenalin dump under such conditions.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

It was stated it is illegal for a minor to open carry in that state, but if he was on private property doing it is it illegal?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)




----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Ziptie said:


> It was stated it is illegal for a minor to open carry in that state, but if he was on private property doing it is it illegal?


Open carry of loaded handguns and long guns and knives is permitted without a license for adults, or for minors 16 or older when carrying a long gun that doesn't violate WS 941.28.

No duty to retreat in the "dwelling" or owned/operated place of business. No deadly force solely to protect property. 3rd party protection. If attack is provoked, self defense may only be used if reasonable belief of imminent death or great bodily harm. If attack is provoked deadly force only allowed if all other reasonable means of avoidance exhausted. WS939.48


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Here is a video you likely won't see on your nightly news.
Try to count the "protestors" vs the antifa/blm/anarchists.
I guessing quite a few owners of those vehicles had liability insurance only.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> Open carry of loaded handguns and long guns and knives is permitted without a license for adults, or for minors 16 or older when carrying a long gun that doesn't violate WS 941.28.
> 
> No duty to retreat in the "dwelling" or owned/operated place of business. No deadly force solely to protect property. 3rd party protection. If attack is provoked, self defense may only be used if reasonable belief of imminent death or great bodily harm. If attack is provoked deadly force only allowed if all other reasonable means of avoidance exhausted. WS939.48


Well who armed him doesn't matter.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

doozie said:


> What are you even talking about....
> 
> I wondered about who armed him, and why the silence now.
> 
> Why is that such a sticking point, and why are you twisting what I post.


Rittenhouse’s lawyer has said that the rifle “never left Wisconsin”, and somehow (I don’t recall the exact wording) implied that it was given to him there. Given that this is now a matter in the justice system, I don’t imagine that whoever gave it to him will be saying much without his/her lawyer present. That would explain the temporary silence on this detail.


Also, I’ve read of (but not managed to find yet) an even earlier video that purportedly shows the start of the incident. Supposedly, the first guy who was killed (bald head, red shirt/mask) was with a group who’d lit a dumpster on fire and were pushing it into a gas station. Rittenhouse (again, supposedly) ran in with a fire extinguisher and put the dumpster fire out.

Several terrorists started chasing Rittenhouse to “get him” for thwarting their mostly-peaceful arson. Baldy was one in the lead, threw something at him, tried to grab the rifle, and, as the kids say, F’d around and found out.

Until I see the video myself, I’ll chalk it up to rumor milling, but it does sound like a compelling and reasonable “start” to all of this.

ETA: it looks like there might be moments of that edited into the montage GTX posted above. Would still like to see it unedited, maybe with some time correlation, but, either way, it does seem to corroborate that story.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Until I see the video myself, I’ll chalk it up to rumor milling, but it does sound like a compelling and reasonable “start” to all of this.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

If as a group of highschoolers you drove over to the local apartment complex and ballbatted, bricked and torched resident's cars, you would be arrested and liable for restitution for all damages.

Now it seems, stuff is just stuff. Whaddya gonna do?
Got a right to protest don't you know?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It wasn't that long ago, folks who warned about the dangers of free speech would use the point that
"Well you can't just go into a crowded theatre and yell fire!"

Funny thing is, now you can set the theatre on fire and say it was exactly that-free speech.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

doozie said:


> I don't recall ever saying he was looking for trouble, I questioned who armed him.
> If it were your kid wouldn't you want to know.
> Heck some where almost seem want to thank the person.
> 
> ...


No idea who armed him. 
If he was my kid I would want to know who, so I could thank them. At least my kid would still be alive, even after at least 3 assaults with apparent deadly intent. ON FILM

Setting in jail, ALIVE. Able to handle the consequences, because he is alive. Now his case seems to be under the care of at least 3 high profile lawyers who have a tendency to win, and win with large settlements. Even the local police chief statements seem to support the kid. 

The other guys with him and business he was protecting are going to lawyer up and keep their mouths shut if they are smart. Seems standard procedure for the degenerates such as the citizens , politicians, lawyers, media and social media posters that have sympathy for the thugs and that help the thugs to go after the decent people. It’s a sad world that allows this. 

I agree, there will be probably be more to the story.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


>


Level heads like Colion Noir are too few and far between. Half the debate will immediately dismiss him because “he’s NRA”. Honestly, that’s almost enough for me to dismiss him, but I’ve listened to dozens of his videos, and met him 3 or 4 times, and he is consistently the same level-headed thinker.

Too, he doesn’t always take a black-and-white position, and he rarely assumes the red-good/blue-bad logic that too many on the right do. Anyone on the left that wants to give him a chance should watch that video to see what I’m saying. He doesn’t paint Rittenhouse as a hero, simply because there are too many details outstanding. In his analysis of when/where just self-defense arises in this situation, he gives the attackers the benefit of the doubt in acknowledging that they may have thought they were doing the right thing.

You may not agree with his analysis, but it deserves a listen nonetheless- if you can resist the urge to go all “blue-good/red-bad” in your listen, and dismiss it all by planting a comfort-herring or two to give yourself a safe-out back into your rhetorical comfort zone.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I thought he split from the NRA.

Anyway, this article lends some perspective.

Wisconsin recently charged Kyle Rittenhouse with first degree murder for killing two people who were, from what I can see from the videos, attacking him with weapons. Whether Rittenhouse should have been in Kenosha in the first place, and with a weapon a 17-year old cannot legally carry in public, is a separate issue for courts of law to decide. The question at hand is however why he was charged with murder while his surviving alleged assailants were, as far as I know, not charged with anything.

This leads to the need to educate potential jurors (i.e. all citizens who are eligible to serve on juries) proactively about important self-defense principles. This must happen before they are called for jury duty because it is illegal to do so afterward. Jurors need to understand the simple concept of din rodef, "the law of the pursuer." This gives defense attorneys a single word – rodef -- to explain the concept if jurors are not already familiar with it.









Kyle Rittenhouse and The Law of the Pursuer


Wisconsin recently charged Kyle Rittenhouse with first degree murder for killing two people who were, from what I can see from the videos, attacking him with weapons. Whether Rittenhouse should have been in Kenosha in the first place, and with a weap...




www.americanthinker.com


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

John Pierce, an attorney representing Kyle Rittenhouse, “Every person that has any sense at all is going to take a weapon to that location. It was a legal weapon. I can’t comment right now further on the specifics of where the weapon was obtained. It was obtained as a legal weapon. It did not cross state lines. That charge is incorrect as a matter of law in Wisconsin. Actually, *that weapon can be possessed by anyone 16 years or older*.”


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

There are some exceptions in Wisconsin state law allowing minors to carry guns, including if they are in the military and in the line of duty, as well as if they are under adult supervision and using it for target practice or instruction. State law also allows provides exemptions for hunting purposes.
Kenosha Police Chief Daniel Miskinis confirmed to reporters Wednesday that you have to be 18 to open carry in the state of Wisconsin.

I think he needs a new lawyer.









Suspected Kenosha shooter may have been illegally carrying gun


If police spotted the teen reportedly carrying a rifle in Kenosha Tuesday night, they could have stopped him to find out if he was committing a crime before he allegedly killed two protesters and injured a third.




www.tmj4.com


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I posted the law earlier in the thread. His attorney is referencing it.


----------



## random (Jul 23, 2020)

GTX63 said:


> I posted the law earlier in the thread. His attorney is referencing it.


Not to be argumentative here, but do you happen to know exactly what statute is being cited? It refers to 941.28, but that only defines what type of firearm is legal. 939.48 defines self-defense. I couldn't find anything about the age required to legally carry a long gun.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Open carry of loaded handguns and long guns and knives is permitted without a license for adults, or for minors 16 or older when carrying a long gun that doesn't violate WS 941.28.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> Open carry of loaded handguns and long guns and knives is permitted without a license for adults, or for minors 16 or older when carrying a long gun that doesn't violate WS 941.28.


Does that mean he was legal?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Legal or not, the young man demonstrated a lot of composure and skill


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

GTX63 said:


> Open carry of loaded handguns and long guns and knives is permitted without a license for adults, or for minors 16 or older when carrying a long gun that doesn't violate WS 941.28.


I understand what you're saying. I am asking what statute states that. I searched the Wisconsin statutes and could not find it. We have the lawyer saying that, and the police chief stating otherwise, so I'm trying to see what the applicable law is to better understand where the disagreement comes from.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> Open carry of loaded handguns and long guns and knives is permitted without a license for adults, or for minors 16 or older when carrying a long gun that doesn't violate WS 941.28.


I believe the law you are quoting is about possession of a weapon. The open carry law in itself is separate. Two separate parts of Wisconsin law and the possession law does not change that a 17 year old still can not open carry even if he can legally possess the rifle. Who ever put that in the Wisconsin gun law WIKI did not get it right and everyone is quoting false info.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

random said:


> I understand what you're saying. I am asking what statute states that. I searched the Wisconsin statutes and could not find it. We have the lawyer saying that, and the police chief stating otherwise, so I'm trying to see what the applicable law is to better understand where the disagreement comes from.


Yep, I have two links differing from the Wisc Statutes, in which open carry was updated in 2011. The official statue does not reflect it.
I tend to follow an attorney before an LEO when it comes to updated law but this one isn't paid to be partial.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Just talking out loud here. 

So you can carry at 17 just not open carry?

If that is the case then that is probably all he is going to be convicted of. The difference in the 2 is barely semantics. If I was a lawyer I would tear that law up. I would rather a 16 year old open carry where I could see than to have it hidden.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

A 17 year old in Wisconsin can not open carry. They can carry in only certain circumstances. Hunting, going to target practice and must be accompanied by an adult at the time. His videotaped interviews already prove he was not doing either.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

painterswife said:


> A 17 year old in Wisconsin can not open carry. They can carry in only certain circumstances. Hunting, going to target practice and must be accompanied by an adult at the time. His videotaped interviews already prove he was not doing either.


Not that this means anything but his lawyer seems to say something else other than that.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> Not that this means anything but his lawyer seems to say something else other than that.


That lawyer just does not know who he is messing with


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> Not that this means anything but his lawyer seems to say something else other than that.


I get that. Wisconsin is however pretty clear on the difference between possession and open carry.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I get that. Wisconsin is however pretty clear on the difference between possession and open carry.


Are you an attorney?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

JeffreyD said:


> Are you an attorney?


She plays one on HT


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Are you an attorney?


Are you? Attorneys charged him.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Are you? Attorneys charged him.


They are politicians


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

prosecutors usually start by broadly charging. That doesn’t mean a lot of those charges aren’t dismissed. An actual lawyer confirmed that because I’m not one.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

If any of you believe the law allows a 17 year old to open carry in any situation other than hunting and going to target practice in Wisconsin you could provide the law that allows it. A Wisconsin resident has already posted on here that it is not allowed. Knowing the laws in states you enter with a gun is important.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> prosecutors always start by broadly charging. That doesn’t mean a lot of those charges aren’t dismissed. An actual lawyer confirmed that because I’m not one.


You are absolutely right! I know some one who was looking at twelve years. It turned into a 45 day jail sentence, probation for three years and just a misdomenor.... I can't spell worth anything? Lol...


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> If any of you believe the law allows a 17 year old to open carry in any situation other than hunting and going to target practice in Wisconsin you could provide the law that allows it. A Wisconsin resident has already posted on here that it is not allowed. Knowing the laws in states you enter with a gun is important.


and if he’s convicted in a class A misdemeanor then that will be appropriate. but that doesn’t mean it impacts the murder charges.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> and if he’s convicted in a class A misdemeanor then that will be appropriate. but that doesn’t mean it impacts the murder charges.


I did not say it would. I said he illegally carried a rifle according to the laws of Wisconsin.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> If any of you believe the law allows a 17 year old to open carry in any situation other than hunting and going to target practice in Wisconsin you could provide the law that allows it. A Wisconsin resident has already posted on here that it is not allowed. Knowing the laws in states you enter with a gun is important.


In Idaho as far as I know a minor over age 12 has to be with a parent or have written permission to carry a firearm. Maybe you can point out the restrictions on that.
i know kids have long guns in their trucks on school grounds too and that’s ok.


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

painterswife said:


> I get that. Wisconsin is however pretty clear on the difference between possession and open carry.


I would put the same question to you as I did to GTX - per what statute?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

random said:


> I would put the same question to you as I did to GTX - per what statute?





https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/related/acts/35.pdf




This might make interesting reading for you. It is the laws they adjusted in 2011 and the information memorandum sent out prior to the senate bill 2011 #93 being passed.

Here is a tidbit from the memoradum.

"INTRODUCTION
2011 Senate Bill 93, as passed by both the Senate and the Assembly, would make a number of 
changes to the places and the manner in which a person may carry or possess a firearm in this 
state.1 Some of the important distinctions used in this memorandum are briefly noted below, 
followed by a description of the provisions of the bill affecting firearm carrying and possession, 
in question and answer format and broken down by whether the changes affect concealed carry 
license holders, people who do not obtain a concealed carry license, or both.2 
“Carry” Versus “Possession” 
The majority of the provisions of the bill relate to restrictions on a person’s ability to “carry” a firearm. 
The bill defines “carrying” a firearm to mean to “go armed with” a firearm. The phrase “go armed 
with,” as it would relate to a firearm, has been defined by the Wisconsin courts to mean that the firearm 
was on the individual’s person or was within the individual’s reach and the individual was aware of the 
presence of the firearm. However, Wisconsin courts generally do not treat having an unloaded and 
encased firearm within one’s reach as “going armed with” the firearm"


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Are you? Attorneys charged him.


You didn't answer my simple question. Ill answer yours though... no.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> You didn't answer my simple question. Ill answer yours though... no.


She’s busy googling Idaho gun laws. It’s nice when you can get someone else to google for you.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I never met a lawyer that admitted their client was guilty in the first interview.
That takes time.


----------



## random (Jul 23, 2020)

painterswife said:


> https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/related/acts/35.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> This might make interesting reading for you. It is the laws they adjusted in 2011 and the information memorandum sent out prior to the senate bill 2011 #93 being passed.


Thank you for providing the citation.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see any age-related items in any of that relating to open carry, only relating to concealed carry. What am I missing?


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLADE said:


> I never met a lawyer that admitted their client was guilty in the first interview.
> That takes time.


What interview? I would think an attorney who “admitted“ their client was guilty in an interview would be disbarred and subject to malpractice Litigation. Strong sanctions against him or her minimally.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

SLADE said:


> I never met a lawyer that admitted their client was guilty in the first interview.
> That takes time.


How many have you had to meet?


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

SLADE said:


> I never met a lawyer that admitted their client was guilty in the first interview.
> That takes time.


Do they admit guilt on the second interview?
When are they required to admit guilt?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

TripleD said:


> How many have you had to meet?


I know you didn’t ask me but I have one in My kitchen baking me a cake. 😂


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> What interview? I would think an attorney who “admitted“ their client was guilty in an interview would be disbarred and subject to malpractice Litigation. Strong sanctions against him or her minimally.


I would think so.
My point. It's fine to hear what a lawyer has to say about their clients guilt or lack there of outside of the court room but until it goes to trial it's just busy talk.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I believe there is free shipping too.

"Understanding Criminal Defense Law" On Sale Now Thru Amazon


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> I know you didn’t ask me but I have one in My kitchen baking me a cake. 😂


I don't have one that close! I can call two and get a callback or text before dark.. neither of them would bake me a cake....


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

TripleD said:


> I don't have one that close! I can call two and get a callback or text before dark.. neither of them would bake me a cake....


well, I raised her and it’s my birthday.😊


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

random said:


> Thank you for providing the citation.
> 
> Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see any age-related items in any of that relating to open carry, only relating to concealed carry. What am I missing?


It is in his charging documents. 948.60  Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18. They don't call it open carry.

Open carry is baked into the Wisconsin Constitution. Exceptions are in the laws.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Dup


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Lisa in WA said:


> well, I raised her and it’s my birthday.😊


Happy 29th Birthday!


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> I know you didn’t ask me but I have one in My kitchen baking me a cake. 😂


Is he putting a file in it?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Is he putting a file in it?


She. 
no, just lots of calories, dang it.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Hiro said:


> Happy 29th Birthday!


Don’t I wish. Though...If it were my 29th I wouldnt have my attorney here. I had her when I was 30.  
56 for me. Old as the hills. 👵🏻


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Don’t I wish. Though...If it were my 29th I wouldnt have my attorney here. I had her when I was 30.
> 56 for me. Old as the hills. 👵🏻


Happy Birthday


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

I thinkbit is hilarious thst the media is now calling AR-15s, Long Guns. Seems that once the dirtbag in Seattle was handing them out, and antifa soyboys were carrying them, they suddenly had a change of nomenclature.

Anyone who doesn't see an agenda, a hard agenda in the media and the left is being purposefully ignorant.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Happy Birthday


Not trying to hijack the thread. It just struck me as funny to have an attorney baking my cake. 
and brag worthy of course. 
Her serious boyfriend is also a lawyer too (lots more experience than my newbie) So kind of fun to bounce legal questions off of them.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> well, I raised her and it’s my birthday.😊


Happy Birthday!!!!


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Hiro said:


> Happy 29th Birthday!


You mean plenty-nine!

Haha, just kidding Lisa, happy birthday


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

painterswife said:


> It is in his charging documents. 948.60  Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18. They don't call it open carry.
> 
> Open carry is baked into the Wisconsin Constitution. Exceptions are in the laws.


And 948.60 answered my question somewhat about the provider as I see it here.

(2) 
(a) Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
(b) Except as provided in par. (c), any person who intentionally sells, loans or gives a dangerous weapon to a person under 18 years of age is guilty of a Class I felony.
(c) Whoever violates par. (b) is guilty of a Class H felony if the person under 18 years of age under par. (b) discharges the firearm and the discharge causes death to himself, herself or another.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

[


doozie said:


> And 948.60 answered my question somewhat about the provider as I see it here.
> 
> (2)
> (a) Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
> ...


Not looking good for that person.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Not trying to hijack the thread. It just struck me as funny to have an attorney baking my cake.
> and brag worthy of course.
> Her serious boyfriend is also a lawyer too (lots more experience than my newbie) So kind of fun to bounce legal questions off of them.


I've had two prepare multiple meals and celebrations, and they ain't even kin


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> A 17 year old in Wisconsin can not open carry. They can carry in only certain circumstances. Hunting, going to target practice and must be accompanied by an adult at the time. His videotaped interviews already prove he was not doing either.


Well he was not hunting it seems. At least I hope its not looked at that way. No target practice, or at least I hope his deeds are not considered target practice. Besides he does not seem to need a lot of practice. If a adult was around I suspect he out ran the adult while trying to get away from the rioting protesters trying to kill him. I think he might might not qualify for any of the above. 

Hopefully his possible crime of carrying a weapon and of not being old enough, to not be at target practice, without a adult will be overlooked, just like most of the crimes that occurred around him for blocks and blocks. The lack of social conscious and concern about the covid issue, blocking traffic, jay walking, littering, committing crimes while wearing a mask, arson, looting, vandalism, attempted murder. There is more but It’s tiresome listing all of the crimes that those concerned for the BLM radicals are are funding and participating in daily. 

Kind of a side note but it seems he was not hiding his identity behind a mask.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

TripleD said:


> You are absolutely right! I know some one who was looking at twelve years. It turned into a 45 day jail sentence, probation for three years and just a misdomenor.... I can't spell worth anything? Lol...


Usually when one hears of things like this its because the prosecutor did not have a clear cut guaranteed win and do not want to risk messing up their wining percentage rate, so they plea bargain down to something the accused is willing to settle for and still allows the prosecution a win on the court list.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> Are you? Attorneys charged him.


Politicians who so happened to be licensed as attorneys charged him. Hopefully you and I will never have to deal with such a creature in real life.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> That lawyer just does not know who he is messing with


Well, we'll see I guess. 

I usually don't take sides this early but many of those videos are pretty damning to the crowd. It makes him look in the right. 

Even the dissenters can only talk about the legality of him carrying a gun or who gave it to him. No one has asked the age of the wounded one yet have they? Was he over 18? Yet he is still guilty of homicide?


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

TripleD said:


> You are absolutely right! I know some one who was looking at twelve years. It turned into a 45 day jail sentence, probation for three years and just a misdomenor.... I can't spell *worth anything*? Lol...


Worth anything looks correctly spelled to me.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Lisa in WA said:


> well, I raised her and it’s my birthday.😊


Oh, wow. Happy birthday. You are the same as my brothers. His is today but we celebrated it on Saturday by shooting up about 300 rounds of ammo and shooting skeet. Shot my first 300 Weatherby. Someone else was buying those shells lol.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Knowing the laws in states you *enter with a gun* is important.


He didn't enter the state with a gun.
Keeping up with the actual facts is important.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> It is in his charging documents. 948.60  Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18. They don't call it open carry.


948.60(3)(c)(c) This section *applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. **941.28* or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. 

This section *applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and **29.593* or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28.
History: 1987 a. 332; 1991 a. 18, 139; 1993 a. 98; 1995 a. 27, 77; 1997 a. 248; 2001 a. 109; 2005 a. 163; 2011 a. 35.
Sub. (2) (b) does not set a standard for civil liability, and a violation of sub. (2) (b) does not constitute negligence per se. Logarto v. Gustafson, 998 F. Supp. 998 (1998).


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

mreynolds said:


> Even the dissenters can only talk about the legality of him carrying a gun or who gave it to him. No one has asked the age of the wounded one yet have they? Was he over 18? Yet he is still guilty of homicide?


One of the peaceful protestors who was shot in the bicep, now known as lefty, was a felon.
I don't think anyone needs to look into the specific law regarding gun rights for felons.
We know they ain't supposed to have them. Hmmm.
Yet the prosecutor has been so busy he has not found the time to file charges against him?
Also note he livestreamed his pursuit of the defendent and is noted for stating his intent was to "empty the mag" into Mr. Rittenhouse.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

GTX63 said:


> One of the peaceful protestors who was shot in the bicep, now known as lefty, was a felon.
> I don't think anyone needs to look into the specific law regarding gun rights for felons.
> We know they ain't supposed to have them. Hmmm.
> Yet the prosecutor has been so busy he has not found the time to file charges against him?
> Also note he livestreamed his pursuit of the defendent and is noted for stating his intent was to "empty the mag" into Mr. Rittenhouse.


Yes, why isn't he under arrest and all over CNN right now? Only crimes from alleged Republicans are against the law now?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> Well, we'll see I guess.
> 
> I usually don't take sides this early but many of those videos are pretty damning to the crowd. It makes him look in the right.
> 
> Even the dissenters can only talk about the legality of him carrying a gun or who gave it to him. No one has asked the age of the wounded one yet have they? Was he over 18? Yet he is still guilty of homicide?


I was talking about PW


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> 948.60(3)(c)(c) _This section *applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. **941.28* or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593._
> 
> This section *applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and **29.593* or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28.
> History: 1987 a. 332; 1991 a. 18, 139; 1993 a. 98; 1995 a. 27, 77; 1997 a. 248; 2001 a. 109; 2005 a. 163; 2011 a. 35.
> Sub. (2) (b) does not set a standard for civil liability, and a violation of sub. (2) (b) does not constitute negligence per se. Logarto v. Gustafson, 998 F. Supp. 998 (1998).


If armed with a short rifle or shotgun or in violation 941.28 * OR* not in compliance with* 29.304 and 29.593. He was not in compliance with 29.304 and 29.593. *He was not hunting. Pretty simple.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> If armed with a short rifle or shotgun or in violation 941.28 * OR* not in compliance with 29.304 and 29.593. He was not in compliance with 29.304 and 29.593.*
> He was not hunting*.
> Pretty simple.


Correct. He was not "hunting", so the hunting statutes are meaningless in this context.

He doesn't have to be "hunting" to legally possess or use a firearm.

His lawyer said it was legal.
I will take his word for it.

I will not take your word for anything.
*Extremely *simple.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The felon with the handgun chasing the defendent vowing to "empty his mag into him" is pretty simple.


----------



## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

So, if I understand this correctly Wisconsin laws states that unless your hunting or target practicing, if you are under the age of 18 and even if you are on _private property_, you are not allow to carry a weapon correct?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Ziptie said:


> So, if I understand this correctly Wisconsin laws states that unless your hunting or target practicing, if you are under the age of 18 and even if you are on _private property_, you are not allow to carry a weapon correct?


There are exceptions.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> There are exceptions.


Once again, your signature line is explanatory.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The streets of Kenosha were dramatically calmer than last week as authorities and National Guard took control of the city, which saw several nights of tense protests hallmarked by burning buildings and lawless demonstrators in the streets. Authorities appeared to have clear control of the streets, guarding the county courthouse and enforcing the city-wide curfew, which will remain in effect until Labor Day according to a Facebook post from the Kenosha Police Department.


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

doozie said:


> I'd hate to have my son at 17 (or any age for that matter) bear the weight of killing not one but two people, no matter what the circumstances.


Yeah... I'd hate to have my sons or daughters killed at 17 (or any age) by "peaqceful protesters"... no matter what the circumstances.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> If armed with a short rifle or shotgun or in violation 941.28 * OR* not in compliance with* 29.304 and 29.593. He was not in compliance with 29.304 and 29.593. *He was not hunting. Pretty simple.


Ok, so now what. What’s the point of the post? What do you suggest?




Personally let’s prosecute the MINOR on any of the weapon violations. This should be handled first thing I figure. The shooting issues can be dealt with afterwards.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

By the way if what I am reading is correct the state of Wisconsin considers 17 years old as a legal adult when its prosecuting time. If that’s correct then Wisconsin seems to have some interesting conflicts between what rights your entitled to and held accountable for as a adult or child.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

This is shown in the news as a used car lot where the “protestors “ held some of their protest at. 



















Wisconsin gunman charged, allegedly shot protester 5 times: Criminal complaint


Authorities investigating social media associated with the name of the alleged gunman in Kenosha, Wisconsin, have found references of support for President Donald Trump.




abcnews.go.com


----------



## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> Not the first time Mr. Blake has behaved in this manner.
> He wasn't supposed to be on the property. But he was.
> The police knew of the warrant for sexual assault and the restraining order enroute.
> 
> ...


Now she's his "fiance"? Hoping to cash in on his lawsuit payday?


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

After some of what’s read about the relationship and its being on and off again and needing restraining orders, it makes one wonder. Three kids with the same person they cannot get along with and need protection from ? No way to know the whole story but it makes me wonder about moms ability to take care of the kids to start with.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I purchased my first rifle when I was fourteen, with money I made selling firewood, cut with a chainsaw I had also purchased myself. I had been hunting with a rifle since I was nine. More often than not I was by myself. By the time I was seventeen I was guiding hunters. While guiding hunters I carried a Ruger Blackhawk .357 revolver. That fall I killed the first of many whitetail deer with a handgun. Three days after I graduated from High School, I was on my way to South America to spend the summer working on a ranch. That Ruger .357 went with me. Some of us just started doing things earlier than others.

This seventeen year old probably wishes he had stayed home that night. But he didn't do anything wrong by defending himself.


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## Roy Gilbert (Apr 11, 2020)

HDRider said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297684746370252806


The best way to stop riots of this type is to get racist police officers, or police officers who cannot restrain themselves off the street. In the absence of unarmed minorities being murdered by police, there would be not protests/riots.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Roy Gilbert said:


> The best way to stop riots of this type is to get racist police officers, or police officers who cannot restrain themselves off the street. In the absence of unarmed minorities being murdered by police, there would be not protests/riots.


You have to wonder why no one has thought of that.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Roy Gilbert said:


> The best way to stop riots of this type is to get racist police officers, or police officers who cannot restrain themselves off the street. In the absence of unarmed minorities being murdered by police, there would be not protests/riots.


Just out of idle curiosity, how do you know any of these recent LEO and suspect incidents happened because the suspect was a certain color? Could any of these incidents been based on the behavior of the suspect and not because of their skin color?


----------



## Roy Gilbert (Apr 11, 2020)

Hiro said:


> Just out of idle curiosity, how do you know any of these recent LEO and suspect incidents happened because the suspect was a certain color? Could any of these incidents been based on the behavior of the suspect and not because of their skin color?


when you look at the sheer volume of incidents when unarmed minorities are killed by police, I'm not sure how you can ask that question .. even if you throw out a few, there are many more behind them.

Before George Floyd .. who saw Minneapolis as a wild and threatening city ... I repeat, reduce the number of unarmed minorities being killed by police and you reduce the "riots"


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

That isn't an answer to my query.


----------



## Roy Gilbert (Apr 11, 2020)

Hiro said:


> That isn't an answer to my query.


I don't know what "LEO" represents ... all the recent riots, of which I'm aware, were direct responses to black men being murdered by police


----------



## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Roy Gilbert said:


> I don't know what "LEO" represents ... all the recent riots, of which I'm aware, were direct responses to black men being murdered by police


And, there in lies the issue. No one cares about black on black murders, which far outweigh the police on black killings by at least an order of magnitude, if not more.


----------



## Roy Gilbert (Apr 11, 2020)

not that no one cares ... can you not make the qualitative distinction between criminal murders and murders by police of unarmed individuals, when police are supposed to be protecting citizens ... you argument is nothing more than tired right wing change the subject bologna


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Roy Gilbert said:


> not that no one cares ... can you not make the qualitative distinction between criminal murders and murders by police of unarmed individuals, when police are supposed to be protecting citizens ... you argument is nothing more than tired right wing change the subject bologna


Why were the police trying to arrest James Blake again? Were they randomly trying to arrest some random black dude? You premise of racism as to why these recent police shootings/deaths should be backed up by something more than your feelings to have any validity.


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## Roy Gilbert (Apr 11, 2020)

I'm going to say this ... and them I'm out of this discussion. In the mid 60's, I was working a summer job while I was in college, in my home town, back in Ohio. This was when the inner city riots of that time were ongoing. I was working with another guy and we had a radio on. There was a news broadcast that was doing coverage of the riots. My co-worker turned to me and said this (this is an exact quotation and it was burned into my brain) he said ... "I wish I was still in the National Guard so I could shoot me a n*ggar"

Anybody who fails to comprehend that this is an attitude that is still prevalent in our society ... is performing a cranial rectal inversion. I'm tired of those who desperately try to put a happy face on the very real problem of racism. If you need to know, I'm a 74 year old white man.

I will delete any further responses ... I'm out


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Roy Gilbert said:


> I'm going to say this ... and them I'm out of this discussion. In the mid 60's, I was working a summer job while I was in college, in my home town, back in Ohio. This was when the inner city riots of that time were ongoing. I was working with another guy and we had a radio on. There was a news broadcast that was doing coverage of the riots. My co-worker turned to me and said this (this is an exact quotation and it was burned into my brain) he said ... "I wish I was still in the National Guard so I could shoot me a n*ggar"
> 
> Anybody who fails to comprehend that this is an attitude that is still prevalent in our society ... is performing a cranial rectal inversion. I'm tired of those who desperately try to put a happy face on the very real problem of racism. If you need to know, I'm a 74 year old white man.
> 
> I will delete any further responses ... I'm out


I don't believe that attitude is prevalent in our society. There are racist. There always will be. But, your anecdote from the 60's and your feelings from superficial perusal of headlines doesn't make your assertion of recent events being caused by racism anything other than that....an assertion without any basis in fact.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Roy Gilbert said:


> not that no one cares ... can you not make the qualitative distinction between criminal murders and murders by police of unarmed individuals, when police are supposed to be protecting citizens ... you argument is nothing more than tired right wing change the subject bologna



You're posting nonsense. Cops kill way more whites per year than blacks and more cops are killed by blacks every year than the other way around. The best way to end it is for criminals of all colors to stop being criminals. Trust me, no cop looks for a chance to shoot anyone of any color. They know doing that will mean a mountain of paperwork and a long investigation. If a cop stops you, act decent when talking to them and don't get belligerent. Do not take off running. Do not go reaching under your seat or in your pockets. That applies to all colors and if you do those simple things, your chance of getting shot drops to zero. If you are dirty, you may go to jail but that is better than dying or life in prison for killing a cop.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Roy Gilbert said:


> when you look at the sheer volume of incidents when unarmed minorities are killed by police, I'm not sure how you can ask that question .. even if you throw out a few, there are many more behind them.
> 
> Before George Floyd .. who saw Minneapolis as a wild and threatening city ... I repeat, reduce the number of unarmed minorities being killed by police and you reduce the "riots"


Speaking about the collective “you” in the following post. How about taking into account the actions of everyone involved in these incidents. Let’s quit blaming the officers only. Almost every single one of these incidents making the news would have never happened if the person involved with the police would have acted responsibly. Sure the officers might make a mistake. The officers might make a big enough mistake that you die. It’s really silly to do something that puts the officers in the position to make those mistakes. I do not care if your drunk or on dope or just having a bad day. If you act stupid do not be surprised when things go wrong. You put yourself in that position. Also keep in mind these stupid actions have results that affect you and you family, the officers and their families, and even bystanders. Might even cause a riot, burning, looting, more deaths. All simply because of some body not wanting to comply with the police. Just do as your told, then go get a lawyer that will make both of you rich. Let the lawyer handle it. Less chance of anyone getting hurt. I personally have little sympathy for most of theses situations when you watch what the idiots are doing. It’s sad for sure when things go wrong. But its way past time for putting the responsibility where it belongs amongst those involved. Lots of blame to go around. 

The riots will go away and be a thing of the past.


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## Tecolote (Aug 30, 2020)

Roy Gilbert said:


> when you look at the sheer volume of incidents when unarmed minorities are killed by police, I'm not sure how you can ask that question .. even if you throw out a few, there are many more behind them.
> 
> Before George Floyd .. who saw Minneapolis as a wild and threatening city ... I repeat, reduce the number of unarmed minorities being killed by police and you reduce the "riots"


Looking at the data here: Expanded Homicide Data Table 3 it becomes a matter akin to complaining about a candle's brightness while holding it in front of the sun.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Stop talking, he's holding his fingers in his ears and going, "na,na,na,na,na,na! I can't hear you"!


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It is like the ear wax has hardened.
All of the violence is being perpetrated by the left and by criminals.
Leaders of the liberal wing have openly promoted, encouraged and then condoned it.
There have been hollywood actors threatening physical violence against the President, comedians posing with his decapitated head, raps stars posing over his dead body, plays depicting his assassination.
Now supporters are being beaten, shot, threatened and publicly harassed by media.
If someone wants to follow the lie that this racism is a "white thing" and can only be resolved by all whites taking responsibility and bowing to violence and guilt shaming, they would be acting foolish.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Here are the quotes from the proud antifa member who killed a man for wearing the wrong hat.
Witnessess reported this murderer with a cause firing two shots into the victim and walking away.

Reinoehl told journalist Donovan Farley in the interview that he had no regrets about firing his weapon last weekend.
_“I was confident that I did not hit anyone innocent and I made my exit,” he said.

“Every Revolution needs people that are willing and ready to fight,” he allegedly wrote, according to The Oregonian. “There are so many of us protesters that are just protesting without a clue of where that will lead. That’s just the beginning that’s that where the fight starts. If that’s as far as you can take it thank you for your participation but please stand aside and support the ones that are willing to fight. I am 100 % ANTIFA all the way! I am willing to fight for my brothers and sisters! _


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

GTX63 said:


> Here are the quotes from the proud antifa member who killed a man for wearing the wrong hat.
> Witnessess reported this murderer with a cause firing two shots into the victim and walking away.
> 
> Reinoehl told journalist Donovan Farley in the interview that he had no regrets about firing his weapon last weekend.
> ...


I saw on the news earlier that US Marshalls killed him. They tried to stop his vehicle and he took off running and he fired about 50 rounds at them from a semi auto rifle before they shot and killed him. Good riddance.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Yes, he is toes up.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

In a conversation with freelance journalist Donovan Farley shared with VICE News, Reinoehl said he believed he and a friend were about to be stabbed, and that he acted in self defense. VICE News has not independently verified details of his story. 

“You know, lots of lawyers suggest that I shouldn't even be saying anything, but I feel it's important that the world at least gets a little bit of what's really going on,” Reinoehl said. “I had no choice. I mean, I, I had a choice. I could have sat there and watched them kill a friend of mine of color. But I wasn't going to do that.” 

Reinoehl had been a nightly presence at Black Lives Matter protests in Portland for months. In early July, he was arrested for carrying a loaded handgun at a protest and resisting arrest. The WSJ reports that the case remains open. Later that month, he was shot in the arm while attempting to wrestle a gun away from a right-wing protester during a skirmish. 


Reindoehl stressed that people participating in the pro-Trump caravan were heavily armed in those trucks, and that they carried “not just paintball guns,” as reported in the press.
He found himself in a confrontation with a man who he says threatened him and another protester with a knife. “Had I stepped forward, he would have maced or stabbed me,” Reinoehl said.


From the public relations department of - ANTIFA


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Roy Gilbert said:


> when you *look at the sheer volume *of incidents when *unarmed minorities* are killed by police, I'm not sure how you can ask that question .. even if you throw out a few, there are many more behind them.


*Show us* this "sheer volume".

All statistics I see show more whites being killed.
Blake was armed with a knife and wasn't killed, so he can't be used as an example.


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

painterswife said:


> If armed with a short rifle or shotgun or in violation 941.28 * OR* not in compliance with* 29.304 and 29.593. He was not in compliance with 29.304 and 29.593. *He was not hunting. Pretty simple.


It appears to me that this exact discussion is what the entire case is going to hinge on.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Short rifle??


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

random said:


> It appears to me that this exact discussion is what the entire case is going to hinge on.



I believe that it is a minor part of the case and likely will be pled down. I also believe that it just might end up with him pleading to something like Second-degree reckless homicide for the first death. 

It is reported that a shot was fired by someone else. He turned when that happened and saw someone reaching or lunging towards him. That person was not armed but he shot him. Several times. He was there in illegal possession of the rifle due to his age. Just my opinion.


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

Anyone happen to catch the body cam video of the latest DC shooting that clearly shows the suspect drawing a gun?

For all the cries of "cops are murdering black people", can I ask exactly what they are supposed to do in a situation like that?


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Roy Gilbert said:


> I'm going to say this ... and them I'm out of this discussion. In the mid 60's, I was working a summer job while I was in college, in my home town, back in Ohio. This was when the inner city riots of that time were ongoing. I was working with another guy and we had a radio on. There was a news broadcast that was doing coverage of the riots. My co-worker turned to me and said this (this is an exact quotation and it was burned into my brain) he said ... "I wish I was still in the National Guard so I could shoot me a n*ggar"
> 
> Anybody who fails to comprehend that this is an attitude that is still prevalent in our society ... is performing a cranial rectal inversion. I'm tired of those who desperately try to put a happy face on the very real problem of racism. If you need to know, I'm a 74 year old white man.
> 
> I will delete any further responses ... I'm out


You claim that the attitude of your friend is still prevalent today, yet you had to go back over 50 years to put together a single anecdotal example of said attitude.

You standing on your head?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

po boy said:


> Short rifle??


An NFA firearm, meaning a rifle with a barrel shorter than 16" or an overall length less than 26".


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> *That person was not armed* but he shot him. *Several times*. He was there in *illegal possession* of the rifle due to his age. Just my *opinion*.


It makes no difference if your *attacker* isn't "armed".

It makes no difference *how many* times you shoot them.

It makes no difference if it's supposedly "illegal" to possess the rifle due to age.

A person *still *has the right to defend themselves.

*Facts*, not opinion.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Here's what his own sister said about him. 









Portland Shooting Suspect's Sister Says She's "Relieved" He was Killed by the Feds


Overnight, Portland shooting suspect Michael Reinoehl was killed by US Marshals in a gun battle. According to his estranged sister, […]




100percentfedup.com





He was a scumbag and you would find 99% of ANTIFA members are just like him. The other 1% are already in prison.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It makes no difference if your *attacker* isn't "armed".
> 
> It makes no difference *how many* times you shoot them.
> 
> ...


Fact, you don't have a right to kill someone in all situations where you are defending yourself.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Fact, you don't have a right to kill someone in all situations where you are defending yourself.


Sure you do.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Fact, you don't have a right to kill someone *in all situations* where you are defending yourself.


I never said anyone did have that right in *all* situations.
I'm only referring to the *one* situation being addressed in *this* discussion.

Let's not play silly word games about things no one said.
It won't change reality, and it won't accomplish anything worthwhile.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I never said anyone did have that right in *all* situations.
> I'm only referring to the *one* situation being addressed in *this* discussion.
> 
> Let's not play silly word games about things no one said.
> It won't change reality, and it won't accomplish anything worthwhile.


No silly words unless you are playing them. You don't know what the entire situation here is, just as I don't, so you are expressing an opinion, not a fact.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> No silly words unless you are playing them. *You don't know* what the entire situation here is, just as I don't, so you are expressing an opinion, not a fact.


I know what the *credible* sources have said and what the videos have shown.
You're *not* one of those "credible" sources.

The facts I stated *are* facts, regardless of whether or not you think so.
You can repeat yourself again, but it won't turn out different next time either.



> No silly words unless you are playing them.


What does that even mean?
How do you play words?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I think Kyle Rittenhouse will be acquitted of any murder or homicide charges and the police officers who shot Blake will also be acquitted. 
anyone disagree?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Lisa in WA said:


> I think Kyle Rittenhouse will be acquitted of any murder or homicide charges and the police officers who shot Blake will also be acquitted.
> anyone disagree?


I think Kyle will be acquitted. Not so sure about Blake yet.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Fact, you don't have a right to kill someone in all situations where you are defending yourself.


To old to play games. If you can't deal with it don't come around... Both get to live another day...


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Fact, you don't have a right to kill someone in all situations where you are defending yourself.


Fair.
But the subtle point that many seem to miss is that the goal, in self defense, is NOT to kill. The goal of any defensive action is to _stop the threat. _

Oftentimes the nature of the threat is so serious that the appropriate and available defensive actions are potentially lethal.

In each of these three cases, the threat was significant enough that potentially-lethal defenses were appropriate.

In the first case, the attacker chased the victim and tried to take his own lethal weapon from him.

In the second, the attacker attempted the potentially lethal action of striking the victim in the head with a skateboard.

In the third, the attacker charged the victim with a firearm in his hand.

In the first two, the victim’s defensive actions did end up being lethal. In the third, it turned out not to be lethal, but was enough to make the attacker cease his attack- therefore _the threat was stopped_.


This really isn’t that hard... unless you want it to be.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

The third case has pictures that show the pistol still being held and controlled by the assailant. I do not think the threat was stopped. The shooter just got lucky that the arm wound was enough to stop the attack.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Fair.
> But the subtle point that many seem to miss is that the goal, in self defense, is NOT to kill. The goal of any defensive action is to _stop the threat. _
> 
> Oftentimes the nature of the threat is so serious that the appropriate and available defensive actions are potentially lethal.
> ...


It was mass murder according to Facebook, the new arbiter of truth


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

Lisa in WA said:


> I think Kyle Rittenhouse will be acquitted of any murder or homicide charges and the police officers who shot Blake will also be acquitted.
> anyone disagree?


All depends on the judge and jury, the integrity of the prosecutor, and the skill of the defending attorney.

Unfortunately it may have little to do with justice.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Sure seems to be how it works. ^^^^


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Fact, you don't have a right to kill someone in all situations where you are defending yourself.


Actually you do. If you are justified in the use of deadly force, then you are justified in killing someone. If you are truly defending yourself, than you fear for your life. If you don't fear for your life, then you are not justified in killing. It all boils down to wether or not you can convince a jury, six months or a year after the fact, that you were in fear for your life.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Redlands Okie said:


> The third case has pictures that show the pistol still being held and controlled by the assailant. I do not think the threat was stopped. The shooter just got lucky that the arm wound was enough to stop the attack.


Luck always has a part to play in any shooting, justified or otherwise. In this case the shooter would of been justified in shooting again, until the assailant was no longer able to use his gun or the gun was dropped and no longer posed a threat.


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

boatswain2PA said:


> All depends on the judge and jury, the integrity of the prosecutor, and the skill of the defending attorney.
> 
> Unfortunately it may have little to do with justice.


Sadly, that seems to be the norm for our legal system anymore. (note that I did not say "justice system")


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Roy Gilbert said:


> when you look at the sheer volume of incidents when unarmed minorities are killed by police, I'm not sure how you can ask that question .. even if you throw out a few, there are many more behind them.
> 
> Before George Floyd .. who saw Minneapolis as a wild and threatening city ... I repeat, reduce the number of unarmed minorities being killed by police and you reduce the "riots"


There is no huge volume of unarmed minorities being killed by police. There are a few isolated instances, which are far outnumbered by minorities being killed by minorities. And outnumbered by the number of whites killed by police. If a particular minority makes up a small percent of the population, yet commits the highest percentage of crimes, they are going to come into contact with police a higher percentage of the time. And if when they come into contact with police, they refuse to follow lawful orders, attack police, or even simply try to ignore the police, they are going to get injured at a higher percentage than if they didn't do these things.

When criminals act like criminals, they are going to be treated like criminals.


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

muleskinner2 said:


> There is no huge volume of unarmed minorities being killed by police. There are a few isolated instances, which are far outnumbered by minorities being killed by minorities. And outnumbered by the number of whites killed by police.


You notice how those making such claims never post any actual data?

I used Washington Post's data for the last 5 years to chart this, in response to a claim that the number of blacks killed by police is "ever-increasing" and the actual data shows the opposite - the trend is downward.

But for some reason, some feel the need to push a false narrative that it's bad and getting worse, screw the facts.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

random said:


> You notice how those making such claims never post any actual data?
> 
> I used Washington Post's data for the last 5 years to chart this, in response to a claim that the number of blacks killed by police is "ever-increasing" and the actual data shows the opposite - the trend is downward.
> 
> But for some reason, some feel the need to push a false narrative that it's bad and getting worse, screw the facts.


It's simple, some create chaos to push an agenda!


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

The de


muleskinner2 said:


> Luck always has a part to play in any shooting, justified or otherwise. In this case the shooter would of been justified in shooting again, until the assailant was no longer able to use his gun or the gun was dropped and no longer posed a threat.


I’ll disagree there, on a technicality.
As soon as Billybadass McFeloncarryingaglock got his right biceps converted to pink mist, he immediately assumed a submissive posture. He went from “heroic”-armed-“medic” to _sniveling little mongrel who’s going to have to rethink his technique for consuming computer porn in his mom’s basement_ in about 2,800 feet per second.

This kid, Rittenhouse, actually displayed nearly perfect presence-of-mind in the face of a threat. I’ve studied the video pretty extensively, and I’m still astounded by what that guy was able to do, regardless his age and training. Many very experienced cops and servicemen would be hard pressed to pull off that level of composure in the face of those particular stressors.

Between the attacks of Dingledorf the Now-Room-Temperature-Skateboarder, and Skyler the One-Armed-Medic, Rittenhouse appears to have experienced a weapon stoppage, cleared it, and brought his rifle back into the fight.

Then, if that wasn’t enough to impress. When Skyler momentarily puts his hands up (one still holding his fully-semiautomatic .9mm multi-mag heater with high-velocity clipazines), Rittenhouse steered his muzzle off-threat. Then, in the 0.01 seconds it took him to realize that Skyler was still charging, steered his muzzle back, and proceeded to liquify his Twitter arm.

How Rittenhouse controlled his muzzle and trigger finger in the split second after Skyler quit being a real threat to his life should be a used as an example in every defensive use-of-force class. 

If I assessed him solely on what he chose to be doing that night, and the doofish “interviews” he gave, I would be less than impressed with this kid. But, given a very detailed review of his performance in a high-stress gunfight, I can’t help but be impressed. That kid had Odin in his pocket for those few minutes.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> ’ll disagree there, on a technicality.
> As soon as Billybadass McFeloncarryingaglock got his right biceps converted to pink mist, he immediately assumed a submissive posture. He went from “heroic”-armed-“medic” to _sniveling little mongrel who’s going to have to rethink his technique for consuming computer porn in his mom’s basement_ in about 2,800 feet per second.
> 
> This kid, Rittenhouse, actually displayed nearly perfect presence-of-mind in the face of a threat. I’ve studied the video pretty extensively, and I’m still astounded by what that guy was able to do, regardless his age and training. Many very experienced cops and servicemen would be hard pressed to pull off that level of composure in the face of those particular stressors.
> ...


This post wins the internet for the day.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

painterswife said:


> No silly words unless you are playing them. You don't know what the entire situation here is, just as I don't, so you are expressing an opinion, not a fact.


Let's review what we do know:

1. Police responded to a call for assistance.
2. From the 911 call they already knew that they were likely going to be dealing with a person wanted on warrants for at least one felony and several misdemeanors.
3. Blake was also in violation of a restraining order (another felony).
4. Police arrived and attempted to arrest said subject (Blake).
5. Blake resisted arrest with violence (another felony) by assaulting the arresting officers.
6. Police attempted to subdue Blake with tasers... twice, but they were ineffective.
7. Blake still refused to comply and threatened to stab the officers.
8. Officers drew their handguns and _repeatedly_ ordered Blake to the ground... Blake still refused to comply.
9. Blake walked around his vehicle, opened the door and reached into the vehicle while an office tried to stop him by pulling on the back of his shirt... Blake still refused to comply.
10. The officer fired injuring Blake.
11. There was a knife in the front floorboard of Blakes vehicle.

If you watch the video of blake after he opened the vehicle door he is bent forward at a 90 degree angle with his right hand reaching into the vehicle... I've never seen anyone get into a car in that manner.

What was the officer to do... wait until he got stabbed?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

homesteadforty said:


> Let's review what we do know:
> 
> 1. Police responded to a call for assistance.
> 2. From the 911 call they already knew that they were likely going to be dealing with a person wanted on warrants for at least one felony and several misdemeanors.
> ...


My posts have nothing to do with Blake.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> The de
> 
> I’ll disagree there, on a technicality.
> As soon as Billybadass McFeloncarryingaglock got his right biceps converted to pink mist, he immediately assumed a submissive posture. He went from “heroic”-armed-“medic” to _sniveling little mongrel who’s going to have to rethink his technique for consuming computer porn in his mom’s basement_ in about 2,800 feet per second.
> ...


Very good points. I have not gone over the videos and done the after action analysis that you have.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Billybadass McFeloncarryingaglock


You should copywrite this. Can I have your permission to use this phrase in a conversation?


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

muleskinner2 said:


> You should copywrite this. Can I have your permission to use this phrase in a conversation?


See, I tickled myself more with _Dingledorf the Now-Room-Temperature-Skateboarder_. I’ve already worked out most of the origin back-story in my medieval fantasy novel series based on his Quixotic antics.

Feel free to do what you want with _McFeloncarryingaglock_. It’ll probably take me a while to weave his story in. I’ll pick him up where you leave off.


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