# Fermenting Saurkraut - weights/covers



## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Last year we threw out 2 five gallon crocks of Kraut after they moulded. We used a brick on a plate to keep the mix down (we boiled the brick first), but it all went bad even though we skimmed it every few days.

Question: Is it worth the expense to get the ceramic weights and covers, or is there a more reasonable way to accomplish the same thing?


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

I used a dinner plate as the cover and put 3 quarts of canned peas on top. Never skimmed and was very good. I did cover the bucket with a towel.


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Last year we threw out 2 five gallon crocks of Kraut after they moulded. We used a brick on a plate to keep the mix down (we boiled the brick first), but it all went bad even though we skimmed it every few days.
> 
> Question: Is it worth the expense to get the *ceramic weights and covers*, or is there a more reasonable way to accomplish the same thing?


Your crock did not come with weights nor a cover? What are you covering it with?

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that fermenting is done best in an anaerobic (without air) environment. I have seen the crocks that have a flat cover that just lays on top, but I never thought that it would quite keep air out of the crock. Which is why I purchased a crock that has the little moat around the top of the crock that the cover fits into. Once you fill the moat with water and place the lid, air cannot get into the crock. Gases that build up inside the crock due to the fermentation process leak out through the water in the moat.

I started a crock of sauerkraut just before Christmas and have not yet opened it. Every once in a while I hear it "burp" out a little gas. I guess it is doing O.K. I was not planning on opening it to check out what is going on for another three or four weeks. Now you have me worried!!! I guess that I will wait a bit longer and either have really good sauerkraut or a moldy mess.

Did you clean out the crock _*real *_well before starting this batch? I have read that unclean crocks are a major cause of failed fermenting.

TRellis


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

I make sauerkraut in a 5 gallon food grade bucket, I have a dinner plate that is smaller than the top of the bucket I place on top of the kraut/brine, and then a gallon zip lock bag full of water/brine-salt and water, for the weight. The level of the water/brine is above the plate and zip lock bag. I watch the water for any mold and any white precipitate from fermentation. I keep a big towel over the bucket to protect it from dust or any accidental additions. I skim it as needed. I usually daily wash the plate and zip lock bag and re-submerge them again after skimming any mold or precipitate. I use a small sieve to skim.

I've made sauerkraut and dill pickles in the kitchen on the first floor and find that it does better than if I make it in the basement. The basement is more humid and has more mold spores in the air than the first floor. I have had more failures due to mold in the basement than I had when making it on the first floor.

Should you buy more expensive equipment? I don't think that will make a difference.


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> I make sauerkraut in a 5 gallon food grade bucket, I have a dinner plate that is smaller than the top of the bucket I place on top of the kraut/brine, and then a gallon zip lock bag full of water/brine-salt and water, for the weight. The level of the water/brine is above the plate and zip lock bag. I watch the water for any mold and any white precipitate from fermentation. I keep a big towel over the bucket to protect it from dust or any accidental additions. I skim it as needed. I usually daily wash the plate and zip lock bag and re-submerge them again after skimming any mold or precipitate. I use a small sieve to skim.
> 
> I've made sauerkraut and dill pickles in the kitchen on the first floor and find that it does better than if I make it in the basement. The basement is more humid and has more mold spores in the air than the first floor. I have had more failures due to mold in the basement than I had when making it on the first floor.
> 
> Should you buy more expensive equipment? I don't think that will make a difference.


I am not trying to denigrate how you do your fermenting and I am quite sure that if in a pinch I would do things the same way. But, I am curious as to how many (as a percentage) failures you do experience using the five gallon bucket method and what in particular you do to avoid them? For future reference purposes.

I did a lot of research into this subject before jumping in and came to the conclusion that going with one of the crocks that I mentioned previously could be a way to avoid failures. It then took me a little more than a year to find one with a price that I could live with. I spent just under $70.00 for a 10 litre Boleslawiec crock with weights and a lid. Not a bad deal! :thumb:

It is a factory second, but the blemish in the glazing is on the outside of the crock and does not affect the fermenting process. I do not care about the blemish. I did not buy it to sit on the floor looking pretty. I bought it for its utilitarian value. Besides, I can just turn the blemish towards the wall when company comes by. 

TRellis


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

I am assuming you used fairly fresh green cabbage, and boiled the brine that you added to the crock or pail. I use plastic wrap over the cabbage, then put a plate on it, then a quart jar with boiled brine for weight and add brine to cover the plate by a couple of inches or more. You may need to add more boiled brine after a few days, My cabbage expanded a little when it started to ferment. I made some with cabbage given to me, as it turned out the cabbage wasn't fresh and was kept under a tarp for a month or so, and it has a slight moldy taste to it. I don't bother to skim anything off till it is finished. I covered it with a heavy towel to keep it dark. I did notice about an inch on the top of the cabbage had a slight yellow look, I am assuming the air was able to penetrate the water and discolored the very top. I usually skim the very top of the cabbage off before I jar it.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I cut the cabbage, add salt to each batch, add each batch to crock, keep "mashing" each batch until there is an inch of liquid above the cabbage. No heated brine. When full, place a plate (recently washed) on top and a bag of water to hold plate down. Towel over the top. It takes about a month in the springhouse in winter, 3 weeks in the summer. I leave for 3 weeks and then peek. Wash plate and bag each time I look. The less peeking the less cleaning. Skim as needed. I don't remember a failure. I add a layer of whole leaves between each batch to use for wraps. I make about 4 gallons at a time, 2 crocks, 60 to 100 gallons each year, I eat sauerkraut nearly every day. Every one around here likes it....James


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

I've never lost sauerkraut but I lost two buckets of dill pickles, both in the basement which is why I only ferment on the first floor now. 
I may add brine but I don't boil it. Percentage wise of losses 0% sauerkraut, 20% pickles. The pickles going 'off', is very subjective. Most people would probably not notice the 'offness', but since I'm the one eating them, I tossed them. I haven't made pickles again but when I do I'll keep them upstairs.

I try to keep some fresh sauerkraut around to munch on, the rest I can at 185Â° F for 30 minutes (guidelines in the Minnesota University Extension website). http://www.extension.umn.edu/food/f...ling/making-fermented-pickles-and-sauerkraut/

I prefer a plastic bucket to a crock, even though I can afford a crock, because I'm the one that washes it out, and it's not heavy. I'm the one that lugs it around, I'm the one that cleans it up, and it is not as heavy as a crock. Buckets have multiple uses, crocks not so much. We use buckets for hauling vegetables, hauling water and catching rain. I so LOOOVVVVVEEE my buckets.


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

TRellis said:


> I am not trying to denigrate how you do your fermenting and I am quite sure that if in a pinch I would do things the same way. But, I am curious as to how many (as a percentage) failures you do experience using the five gallon bucket method and what in particular you do to avoid them? For future reference purposes.
> 
> I did a lot of research into this subject before jumping in and came to the conclusion that going with one of the crocks that I mentioned previously could be a way to avoid failures. It then took me a little more than a year to find one with a price that I could live with. I spent just under $70.00 for a 10 litre Boleslawiec crock with weights and a lid. Not a bad deal! :thumb:
> 
> ...


The Chinese have been making kraut and kimchee for well over 5,000 years and I'm sure they didn't have special equipment. I think you are over thinking it.


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

suitcase_sally said:


> The Chinese have been making kraut and kimchee for well over 5,000 years and I'm sure they didn't have special equipment. I think you are over thinking it.


As with almost anything else in life there are generally many ways to do "something". 

Some ways to do that "something" may be better than other ways or easier or cheaper. Some ways to do "something" may be preferred by some and scorned or ridiculed by others. Some ways to do "something" may be considered unsafe by some and fine by others. The individual doing the "something" determines their own criteria and desired result.

I choose, as do many, to ferment with a device that has an "airlock" of some type built into the system, as has been done for hundreds if not thousands of years. Many experts advise that it is the best and safest method to employ.

Overthinking it??? No. At this moment in time I just choose to employ a different method. And, actually expressed an interest (albeit an interest in fail rates) in other methods. Who knows, I may, in the future, be in a position where I only have a five gallon plastic bucket, a little bit of salt, a head of cabbage and a hankering for sauerkraut.

Knowledge is a good thing. Asking questions is a close second.

TRellis


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## RedEarth (Sep 21, 2005)

I haven't been fermenting things like sauerkraut long, but so far, if I'm having trouble keeping the food below the brine level, the most foolproof way I've found has been having a ziploc type bag (full of brine instead of plain water, in case of any spillage) atop the fermenting item, making sure the brine is still higher than the line where the food stops. 

Feather in the breeze's method of a plate under that bag is a good one for anyone who might prefer to not have plastic touching the food.

Glad to see so many fermenters around! I'm having fun with lots of fermenting projects.


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## WhoMe (Jan 5, 2015)

I have and my mother before me have always fresh packed the ingredients in the canning jars & left them to 'work' for 8 weeks. No fuss, no muss & no worries. Never used a crock. Just sayin


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## deb_rn (Apr 16, 2010)

I use the "crock" of a crockpot that stopped working. Easy to mash the cabbage in it, plastic wrap, and a dinner plate fits the top, then weighted down. I get mold at times... skimmed off.
The only problem I can see with a plastic bucket, is that in the scratches that are in the plastic...there could be organisms that are not friendly to sauerkraut!

Debbie


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## Melesine (Jan 17, 2012)

Open containers aren't anaerobic which is the ideal environment to grow lactic acid bacteria and prevent mold. Mold is a sure sign that you don't have an anaerobic environment since it needs oxygen to grow. After learning the hard way, I ferment in actual anaerobic containers with an air lock system. To me the expense is worth it because I don't have failures or mold anymore and I'm not wasting time and food on those failures. You have to decide if it's worth it for you though.


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## sniper69 (Sep 23, 2007)

I've been trying to find a Harsch crock - but as far as I know they are no longer made. I've been pondering on two different ones (both German made) - they are The Schmitt crock at www.amazon.com/Nik-Schmitt-Fermenting-Crock-Liter/dp/B0007VKLB0/ and the K&K Keramik crock at http://www.amazon.com/Keramik-German-Fermenting-Crock-Kerazo/dp/B00K7JDXU8/ 

I think this would make it easiest to get an anaerobic environment for fermenting.


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## mrs whodunit (Feb 3, 2012)

I used a plate with a glass gallon jar filled with water. Everything was sterilized.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Melesine said:


> Open containers aren't anaerobic which is the ideal environment to grow lactic acid bacteria and prevent mold. Mold is a sure sign that you don't have an anaerobic environment since it needs oxygen to grow. After learning the hard way, I ferment in actual anaerobic containers with an air lock system. To me the expense is worth it because I don't have failures or mold anymore and I'm not wasting time and food on those failures. You have to decide if it's worth it for you though.


In theory, if the cabbage is completely submerged under the brine, isn't that enough of an anaerobic environment?

I have never had a mold problem in sauerkraut, but have with pickles. Then again, I only make small batches and ferment on my kitchen counter (only for a few days, also, not for weeks) and then move to the fridge.

I would bet that the main reason for spoilage is cabbage that is not fully covered somewhere by the brine. My recipe calls for just mashing the cabbage with salt and using that liquid, but I generally add additional brine to it just to be sure. I skim/check/taste daily before moving to the fridge.

I think the problem with the pickles was floating pickles breaking the surface of the brine. I think I had too many in my "crock" - which is a food grade plastic 2 gallon plastic storage container (like a cookie jar).


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## Melesine (Jan 17, 2012)

offthegrid said:


> In theory, if the cabbage is completely submerged under the brine, isn't that enough of an anaerobic environment?


That's the theory espoused by the open jar proponents who claim fermentation is an art and not a science. But my personal experiences using their methods and using closed systems with an airlock have proved to me that a closed system produces a superior fermented product.


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

We learned how to do it the easy way a long time ago.

We pack quart jars full of cabbage and a little salt on top. Set it out in the shed a few weeks and process the resulting Kraut.

I edited this to add we screw the lids on firm and retighten before we process. Some bubbling will occur through the seals so don't screw the lids on too tight or they might explode.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Melesine said:


> That's the theory espoused by the open jar proponents who claim fermentation is an art and not a science. But my personal experiences using their methods and using closed systems with an airlock have proved to me that a closed system produces a superior fermented product.


I suspect that the longer you want the fermentation to continue, the more likely it is that you'll have a failure with an open jar just due to the potential for contamination or for the food to break the surface.

We don't really ferment for long; we use a recipe from our Russian teacher that basically ferments long enough to use the sauerkraut as a probiotic. So, it's a salty, but fresh tasting cabbage - not truly sour. A few days on the counter isn't that long to ferment without spoilage, no matter what the conditions.

If you want to ferment for longer, it probably makes sense to upgrade to the best equipment you can afford so you don't lose all your hard work by not noticing potential contamination.


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

sniper69 said:


> I've been trying to find a Harsch crock - but as far as I know they are no longer made. I've been pondering on two different ones (both German made) - they are The Schmitt crock at and the K&K Keramik crock.
> 
> I think this would make it easiest to get an anaerobic environment for fermenting.


Take a look at these crocks. This is where I bought my factory second from. They use the same principle as the Harsch and are much cheaper. At least the factory seconds are.

http://www.stonecreektrading.com/collections/fermenting-crocks

TRellis


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## Melesine (Jan 17, 2012)

offthegrid said:


> I suspect that the longer you want the fermentation to continue, the more likely it is that you'll have a failure with an open jar just due to the potential for contamination or for the food to break the surface.
> 
> We don't really ferment for long; we use a recipe from our Russian teacher that basically ferments long enough to use the sauerkraut as a probiotic. So, it's a salty, but fresh tasting cabbage - not truly sour. A few days on the counter isn't that long to ferment without spoilage, no matter what the conditions.
> 
> If you want to ferment for longer, it probably makes sense to upgrade to the best equipment you can afford so you don't lose all your hard work by not noticing potential contamination.


As someone with allergies, I make sure I ferment my sauerkraut past the histamine stage. I don't need anymore of those in my system than I already have lol. I ferment 7-10 days between 68-72 and move it to the fridge to finish fermenting for another 10 weeks or so before eating it. If only I had a basement, cellar or other cool storage area.


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