# Calcium Carbonate questions



## GoldenWood Farm (May 31, 2003)

Okay I am going to pick up a 50lb of Calcium Carbonate from my local feed store today to try out with the girls but I have a few questions for those who have been feeding it.

How much do you give each doe? 

Do you top dress on their grain and if so how does that work for you?

If you don't top dress how do you feed it?

If you have does who don't want to eat it how do you get them to take it? 

How do you make sure they get enough/correct amount? 

Do you feed it to the growing kids also in place of alfalfa hay/pellets and if so how much? 

What kind of improvements have you seen feeding Calcium Carbonate versus Alfalfa hay/pellets?

How long have you been feeding Calcium Carbonate to your herd with good results?


I am excited about this new venture but I am also very nervous to try feeding something like this to my does. Price wise it is about $13 for a 50lb bag which is still cheaper than my alfalfa pellets at $19 for 80lbs if you don't feed a lot. I have decided to try the Calcium Carbonate because lately I am having problems getting my does to eat even a little bit of their alfalfa pellets gre:. I am hoping they won't turn their nose up at this stuff. I am nervous though about them getting the correct amounts or enough of the calcium carbonate daily.

Thanks in advance!

Justine


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

As mentioned on the other thread, drizzle a bit of corn oil over their daily ration, sprinkle on a spoonful of calcium carbonate per goat, stir, feed.

I've not been feeding it long, so I can't tell you about results. Hope a couple of the other folks that have used it longer chime in!


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## GoldenWood Farm (May 31, 2003)

Thanks Alice! I feel like a dork not searching first before asking some of my questions. I do have another question I forgot to ask. Should I taper down on their alfalfa pellets slow or just switch cold turkey? They don't eat much of their alfalfa pellets anyways but I don't want to upset anything. 

I am looking at revamping the whole way I have been feeding grain but I am starting with the Calcium Carbonate first. 

Justine


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I tried looking into an inclusion rate, and it's hard to find one without a ration balancing program. Even then it gets difficult unless you feed a TMR (total mixed ration). I feed hay with grain on the side. 

I did find that a 150lb doe producing 12lbs of milk per day needs about 20 g of calcium per day. Keep in mind that Calcium Carbonate is NOT 'pure' calcium - it is 38-40% calcium. Also keep in mind that NOT all calcium that goes in is absorbed - I found absorptions from 30% to 55%. 

Your other food sources will have some amount of calcium too. Most grains are very low. Grass hay is decent, alfalfa has quite a bit. I feed a grass/alfalfa mix hay, and browse, and our grain mix on the stand. 

I just got my bag of calcium carbonate today. I'll start using it after this bag of alfafa pellets disappears.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I'm tapering down the alfalfa pellets. They still get some each day.


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## GoldenWood Farm (May 31, 2003)

Okay I went to my feed store to pick up my calcium carbonate. They tried to sell me BiCarb and I said that isn't what I wanted. So we talked a bit and then they said "Oh Limestone!".....so I picked up a 50lb bag of limestone. But somehow I am feeling this isn't what you gals are talking about is it? .

I only payed $5.50 for the bag of limestone so if it isn't what I am supposed to get no harm no foul on my part *laughs*. I just am curious...is that what I was supposed to get?

Justine

**edited to add**
It is lawn and garden lime....grrrr


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

FEED grade limestone is what you want.

Mine says on the bag:
Granular Calcium Carbonate
Selected ground limestone for livestock, poultry feeds and industries.










Here's the company that bags it:
http://www.carthagecrushedlimestone.com/


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## GoldenWood Farm (May 31, 2003)

Yeah I think the kid gave me the wrong stuff. Because the gal I know who works there when we where talking said they put the limestone I was going to get into their feeds (they are a feed mill as well) and so when I got home and looked at the bag I was rather shocked. I think the poor kid gave me the wrong one, I just said limestone not food grade limestone.

Justine


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## kandmcockrell (Oct 10, 2008)

Alice, when you say a spoonfull, is that just a spoon like you would use to eat with? I am worried about giving to little or too much.

Thanks!



Alice In TX/MO said:


> As mentioned on the other thread, drizzle a bit of corn oil over their daily ration, sprinkle on a spoonful of calcium carbonate per goat, stir, feed.
> 
> I've not been feeding it long, so I can't tell you about results. Hope a couple of the other folks that have used it longer chime in!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

For more than four does, probably a tablespoon, not a teaspoon.


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## kandmcockrell (Oct 10, 2008)

I just have 1 doe, so would that be 1 teaspoon?


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I use a tablespoon. Calcium Carbonate is not readily absorbed into the body, so might as well overshoot. A tablespoon is about 23-25g, which is about what a 2gallon/day milker needs. But, they're not going to absorb it all. So, I put that much on 2x per day to compensate for what they aren't eating, and what isn't absorbed.


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## Manchamom (May 18, 2003)

Do make sure it's feed grade. The other for fertilizer isn't checked for lead content.


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## Ford Zoo (Jan 27, 2012)

I had a doeling go into ketosis 2 days before kidding quads this summer. Boy did I learn alot! A few days after she kidded I was still treating her for it (crushing vitamin tabs everyday and drenching her), and found the grand post about calcium carbonate. She was not into alfalfa pellets, and no bales could be found, so I started topdressing her feed with about a tsp of CC everday, she recovered nicely and got it everyday until the kids were weaned. 

My plan is to topdress for every pregnant doe starting in the last month of pregnancy now.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Ketosis is energy deficiency, NOT calcium. Calcium defeciency causes hypocalcemia, or milk fever. Though generally if you have one of these issues, the animal is off feed/not feeling good, so it's good to supplement with calcium if ketotic, and consider giving an energy supplement to animals with milk fever.


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## Ford Zoo (Jan 27, 2012)

mygoat said:


> Ketosis is energy deficiency, NOT calcium. Calcium defeciency causes hypocalcemia, or milk fever. Though generally if you have one of these issues, the animal is off feed/not feeling good, so it's good to supplement with calcium if ketotic, and consider giving an energy supplement to animals with milk fever.


Dona, In my case, it started with a malnourished goat that was bred back just before I got her and delivered quads 5 months later. After researching many sources, I am convinced hypocalcemia lead to her ketosis, which is generally a secondary condition. 

I quote the following article here: Ketosis - What is it? - Dairy Goat Care and Management which states: 

_"Since the babies are still growing in her itâs very important to fix the original nutritional imbalance, which in this case is a diet-induced calcium deficiency. The fetuses inside of her are draining her of her own calcium, which is essential for muscle tone. So without calcium she becomes very weak. She has weakened muscles, including the heart muscle, and at the same time is living on her own body reserves because she has stopped eating (and soon is too weak to eat) her imbalanced ration. When a pregnant doe becomes hypocalcemic and is misdiagnosed by a veterinarian who doesn't understand the nutritional dynamics involved, he fails to replace her lost calcium at the same time that he is reversing the ketosis with energy replacement substances such as propylene glycol or Nutridrench. The result is a drained and weakened system despite the treatment for ketosis, and she inevitably dies either of 'unexplained' causes, or of what the vet labels 'milk fever', or 'pregnancy toxemia', or 'pregnancy ketosis', or 'parturient paresis', all of which are misnomers"_ and _"By its very nature, Ketosis has to be a secondary condition, because itâs the direct result of a process that starts when the animal, for whatever reason, stops eating."_

In hindsight, I do believe part of the problem for my doe was that I had cut her grain back a bit the last few weeks out of fear of overly large kids as she was huge and I had been feeding her heavy since getting her. 

While giving dextrose to increase energy is helpful, the initial cause-in my case hypocalcemia-must be reversed or the process will continue. She was treated successfully with the CMPK and dextrose. It was very time consuming and one doeling was still born. I was in the barn a minimum of every 2 hours for 72 hours and drenched her with countless doses of both until I knew she was in the "safe zone".

So due to this experience, all my does will now have calcium top dressed on their feed in that last month of pregnancy when those unborn kids are robbing their mothers of calcium.


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## Ford Zoo (Jan 27, 2012)

GoldenWood Farm said:


> Yeah I think the kid gave me the wrong stuff. Because the gal I know who works there when we where talking said they put the limestone I was going to get into their feeds (they are a feed mill as well) and so when I got home and looked at the bag I was rather shocked. I think the poor kid gave me the wrong one, I just said limestone not food grade limestone.
> 
> Justine


Just a thought- since they are a feed mill, ask if you can buy a smaller quantity of it. I'm sure the shelf life of CC is very long, but a 50# bag is going to last forever topdressing at this rate. Our local feed mill will just fill up my margerine tub when ever I ask, and that takes up less room in my little feed shack.


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## GoldenWood Farm (May 31, 2003)

Oh I never updated you guys on the whole thing did I. Well what they gave me IS what they put in their feed, I even went as far as to contact the company who makes the lime and even though it doesn't say it is food grade according to them it is food grade and people use it in feeds all the time. Since it doesn't say anywhere on the bag that it is food grade even though they say it is I haven't even attempted to use it. I can't find calcium carbonate anywhere close to me so I stopped looking for now. 

Very frustrating turn out and I ended up having to dry the does up early because $19 for a 80lb bag of alfalfa pellets was killing me. I was already paying close to $15 a bag for their grain and hay right now is $17-$18 a bale for good quality. I sure wish I lived somewhere I could get the calcium carbonate easy 

Justine


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## Manchamom (May 18, 2003)

Maybe ask the company to send you the results of their inpurity test? Then you could judge for yourself if you want to feed it. 

There's got to better hay prices somewhere. I buy off the farms and do pretty good on hay, alfalfa, and oats. The feed mill in Mulino sells Chaffe Hay, there is alot of good hay with decent prices coming out of Aurora.


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## Ford Zoo (Jan 27, 2012)

Seems I read on the Fiasco Farm website that you can give 2 Tums a day for calcium supplement. I have not bought Tums in a while so I can't say the cost difference. 

Manchamom: how much does that chaffe hay run? I have not found it around these parts but it sounds yummy!


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## GoldenWood Farm (May 31, 2003)

I have played with the idea of Chaffe hay but I am not sure if it would be cost effective or not.

Justine


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Ford Zoo said:


> Seems I read on the Fiasco Farm website that you can give 2 Tums a day for calcium supplement. I have not bought Tums in a while so I can't say the cost difference.
> 
> Manchamom: how much does that chaffe hay run? I have not found it around these parts but it sounds yummy!


If each tums is 750mg, then 2 would be 1500mg. Or, 1.5g. As I said, a doe producing 2 gal per day requires a LOT more than that. Two tums is not enough to 'replace' the calcium intake. Esp since calcium carbonate has an absorbance of like 30% or somethin'.


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## Ford Zoo (Jan 27, 2012)

mygoat said:


> If each tums is 750mg, then 2 would be 1500mg. Or, 1.5g. As I said, a doe producing 2 gal per day requires a LOT more than that. Two tums is not enough to 'replace' the calcium intake. Esp since calcium carbonate has an absorbance of like 30% or somethin'.


.

Dona, I am not trying to give bad advice, I was only making another suggestion to try to give someone ideas. We can all help each other out here. Forgive me if I took that wrong, but geeze!


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## Manchamom (May 18, 2003)

The chaffe hay is about $520.00 a ton. Just about the same as pellets price wise. I haven't tried it yet, just found where they sell it a couple days ago.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Ford Zoo said:


> .
> 
> Dona, I am not trying to give bad advice, I was only making another suggestion to try to give someone ideas. We can all help each other out here. Forgive me if I took that wrong, but geeze!


Don't take offense. I was just worried that some newbie would see this thread in the future and think that feeding 2 tums a day would be adequate. I felt that clarification would be helpful.

As an unrelated note, I realize not every doe is producing 2 gallons per day. But, I'm fairly sure I'm remembering an absorbance of something like 30%. I would much rather drastically overshoot (because a tablespoon 2x per day isn't a 'lot' either, IMO) than undershoot. Esp when I'm feeding no otehr large calcium source. YMMV.


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## LoneStrChic23 (Jul 30, 2010)

I give Tums.... My girls like them, but I also feed Chaffhaye, so they get calcium from that. I bought Tums in bulk (generic from Sams) to get a new doe some sort of calcium she'd eat because she wouldn't touch alfalfa pellets.... Now that I have all these bottles, I just use them for treats.

Like Donna said, to meet all of their calcium needs with just Tums, you'd be feeding a lot of them. 

I wish I could find a better source for calcium carbonate than the lil bag from the health food store, and I wish mine would EAT it, but so far all of my tricks to get them to eat it are a bust. :grump: 

So I provide a rationed amount alfalfa (chaffhaye now, used to be pellets until my supplier stopped stocking my brand) & milkers gets a few Tums as their reward on the stand.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Crystal, I was in TSC today, and they had Standlee Alfalfa pellets for $11.59 per bag.

I was also in my Co-Op today, and a 50lb bag of alfalfa pellets there was $11.35. I've always used my Co-Op's pellets when I get them, and have never used Standlee, so I don't know if there is much of a difference.

I didn't get pellets today; I got Chaffaye, since until Sunday, I need something with long stem.

ETA: Chaffaye is down to $13.10 a bag at the Co-Op.


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## Manchamom (May 18, 2003)

Are you getting pound for pound with the chaffe hay as opposed to pellets or can you actually feed less like they claim? With the long trip to get chaffe hay it wouldn't make much sense for me to switch if there is no savings. 

Crystal have you tried turning the calcium carbonate into calcium citrate with lemon juice? They may like it better. I have the process if you need it.

For those who raise their own chickens, one medium egg shell supplies 750 to 800 mg. of calcium carbonate.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

1 bale of chaffaye feeds 10 goats and 1 horse for 1 day, without any other hay,browse, or pellets other than what the milkers get on the stand.

Since each goat should consume 5lbs of hay/pellets per day, and the horse should consume 25lbs of hay/pellets per day, and they are staying happy on 1 bag of Chaffaye, that works out to me that the 50lbs of Chaffaye is worth about 75lbs of good quality, alfalfa hay.

So not as much as the 90lbs that they claim, but more than a 50lb bale of hay or pellets too.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

*


Manchamom said:



Crystal have you tried turning the calcium carbonate into calcium citrate with lemon juice? They may like it better. I have the process if you need it.

Click to expand...

*


PLEASE share this. I was JUST considering this the other day when I was reading how much more absorbable calcium citrate is. I didn't know there was a way to actually do it though. My worry was acid in the rumen, but with baking soda and using only a little lemon juice, it shouldn't matter.


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## LoneStrChic23 (Jul 30, 2010)

CaliannG said:


> Crystal, I was in TSC today, and they had Standlee Alfalfa pellets for $11.59 per bag.
> 
> I was also in my Co-Op today, and a 50lb bag of alfalfa pellets there was $11.35. I've always used my Co-Op's pellets when I get them, and have never used Standlee, so I don't know if there is much of a difference.
> 
> ...


I have 3 options for alfalfa pellets:

50lbs of extremely dusty, grey pellets that my goats won't touch for $15.99

50lbs of slightly less dusty pellets that contain animal fat for $14.99

Or, I can buy my beloved Standlee in 1 ton, plastic wrapped cubes that I can't transport or store (nor afford all at once right now). 

Originally the price was just going to go up from $10.49 to $12.99 for the 40lbs of Standlee, but some headhancho got this brilliant 1 ton cube thing in their head, so now the store has to try & sell these bulk pellets before they are allowed to order more of the 40lb bags.... Minimum 5 weeks. 

I'm getting Chaffhaye for $12.50, & am liking it so far......

Anywho, wonder if my picky brats would try that Manchamom........


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## April (Nov 28, 2006)

I'd love to see the carbonate to citrate alchemy too!


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## Manchamom (May 18, 2003)

Okay, Carbonate to Citrate.
It's easiest to try a small amount first and then play with larger quanities. Put a teaspoon of calcium carbonate in a wide dish, like a wide mouth 1/2 pint jar. add a little more then an equal amount of lemon or lime juce, fresh is best. The whole thing will start bubbling and foaming, that's what you want. Let it sit at room temperature for 6 to 12 hours. When you come back to it the calcium powder will all be disolved into the juice. If you taste it, it should be sweet and salty. The acid in the juice is used up turning the carbonate into salt.
The larger a quanity, the longer it takes to mix. It will quit bubbling when it's done. Probably if you're doing quanities that will need to rest for 2 or 3 days it might be best to put it in the refrigerator.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Bringing this back up to the top so that people can read the previous discussion.

Merry Christmas, too.:cowboy:

On the topic of absorption of the two types of calcium supplements:

Calcium carbonate is the most cost-effective source of calcium. Contrary to some advertisements, the intestinal absorption of calcium citrate and calcium carbonate is the same except when there is no acid in the stomach (Heaney, R. P.).
http://courses.washington.edu/bonephys/opcalcium.html

The two main forms of calcium in supplements are carbonate and citrate. Calcium carbonate is more commonly available and is both inexpensive and convenient. Due to its dependence on stomach acid for absorption, calcium carbonate is absorbed most efficiently when taken with food, whereas calcium citrate is absorbed equally well when taken with or without food [4]. Calcium citrate is also useful for people with achlorhydria, inflammatory bowel disease, or absorption disorders [1]. 
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Calcium-HealthProfessional/

The type of calcium. Check the label to find out what kind of calcium a supplement contains. If the supplement contains calcium citrate, you can take it with or without food. If the supplement contains calcium carbonate, take it with food. Stomach acid produced while eating helps the absorption of calcium carbonate.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/calcium-supplements/AN01428


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I don't think you can 'change' calcium carbonate to calcium citrate.

Calcium carbonate is CaCO3

Calcium citrate is C12H10Ca3O4

I am reading the scientific discussion of the differences between physical and chemical changes, and I'll get back to you.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Physical changes vs chemical changes:
http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/matter/faq/physical-chemical.shtml


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

The bubbles are a sign that something is happening - CO2 is being released. The Citric acid eqn I could find is C6H8O7 (solid).

Dilute citric acid (lemon juice) added to basic CaCO3 will yield calcium citrate. 

Admittedly, I copied this chem reaction offline because it's been a few years since chemistry...  

3 CaCO3 + 2 H3C6H5O7 (aq) --> Ca3(C6H5O7)2 + 3 CO2 + 3 H2O


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

So, does it react at the molecular level? I thought molecules were bound together tighter than that, but I successfully avoided taking chemistry in high school AND college.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> So, does it react at the molecular level? I thought molecules were bound together tighter than that, but I successfully avoided taking chemistry in high school AND college.


Sure does. 

Jealous you avoided chemistries. In college here, I've had to take GenChem 1&2, plus Organic Chem 1&2, and Biochemistry. Tough stuff.


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## CJBegins (Nov 20, 2009)

Okay, here is another question for you guys. What about using the additive dicalcium phosphate. It's an additive that is added to many grain mixes. 

Caliann and I talked about this back when my does were pregnant but I haven't asked her about it since they delivered. Hopefully, she will chime in cause she is chocked full of knowledge on this kind of stuff.

Carla


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

My vet in Missouri said NOT to use that because of the phosphate aspect. He was horrified when he saw a bag of it in my feedshed. The feed store owner had gotten the wrong stuff.


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## CJBegins (Nov 20, 2009)

Alice, that is weird because it is added to lots of different feed. It is calcium and phosphate. I also have some but I only bought 2 pounds of it thinking it was a great idea but.....I can't remember why Caliann said it wouldn't be good to use on my does that were prego at the time.


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## harvestmoonfarm (Nov 24, 2012)

Just ran across this thread, and I'm wondering what the advantages are. I feed alfalfa pellets (which I was told provide the calcium the does need). Is there something I'm missing? Thanks!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The over feeding of protein in alfalfa causes its own set of problems. Over uddering and edema are the ones I have seen. Others are wondering about ketosis and other issues. I will let them share their experience.


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## IndyGardenGal (Apr 5, 2009)

I found out today, I can get a bag of calcium carbonate for $6. I had to settle for orchard grass hay with a bit of alfalfa in it. Definitely going to try to top dress barley fodder with this to see how we do.


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## GoldenWood Farm (May 31, 2003)

I still wish I could find Calcium Carbonate around here . The only stuff I can find is garden lime which has calcium carbonate in it and I guess it is used in animal feed? I think I will take a look around again in a month or so though.

Justine


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Carla, it was because dicalcium phosphate is an inert....yes, it has calcium, but it also has phosphate (phosphorus and oxygen bonded) which we are trying to balance out at a 3:1 ratio in favor of calcium in diet. Grain concentrates are high in phosphorus anyway, so by adding a calcium-phosphorus bonded supplement, you basically aren't ADDING calcium to the diet, as it is 1:1 in the supplement. Dicalcium phosphate is 1 calcium, 1 hydrogen, 1 phosphorus, and 4 oxygen.

That is why I told you to go with the calcium carbonate, it is a simpler compound, more easily digestible, and does *positive* things for your calcium/phosphorus ratio.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Oh, and just because it is added to grain mixes doesn't necessarily make it *good* for them.  It is used as a binding agent. You will also find it in sugary breakfast cereals...and as a binding agent for pills (medications). It has very little actual nutritional value and is mostly considered an inert.


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## CJBegins (Nov 20, 2009)

Caliann, thanks for the reminder. I read that is was a binding agent in pills. Oh well. They already love their calcium carbonate. I love to feed them alfalfa pellets but some of the different brands are super dusty. Standlee, from Tractor supply is not dusty at all but they are very hard.


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## Laverne (May 25, 2008)

Justine, Concentrates has oyster shell powder-feed grade- which is calcium carbonate. http://www.concentratesnw.com/products/Retail%20Master.pdf


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## GoldenWood Farm (May 31, 2003)

Laverne I could kiss you! I have searched high and low for a place near enough to me to actually get some but I never did. Okay so I saw oyster shell flour - feed grade under feed supplements...that is the right stuff?

Girls pinch me! Is that the stuff I can use? Is it the right stuff?! Please tell me it is! I could actually bring my feed costs down!

Justine


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## Laverne (May 25, 2008)

Yes, that is the right one. I googled the oyster shell powder composition and it is 97% calcium carbonate. Calcium carbonate is from fossilized shells so is basically the same thing. http://www.livestrong.com/article/350106-calcium-citrate-vs-calcium-carbonate-vs-oyster-shells/


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## yarrow (Apr 27, 2004)

speaking of feed costs down... I still (after 3 years) can't believe how much money I am saving by top dressing with calcium carbonate powder.. instead of buying/feeding a full 50lb bag of alfalafa pellets ...we fed out a full bag.. every day of the year... don't even know what pellets are running now?? but they were $12 to $13 a bag, last time I bought some.. so 365 x 12 = $4380 (that was JUST for alfalafa pellets!!!).. now?? I use a 50lb bag of calcium (less then $4 a bag) every 2 to 3 months!!! ..

I also switched from small square bales to big rounds the same year... cutting my hay costs by well over half. I buy from a guy who brings them to me, all in one afternoon.. neighbor brings his tractor over and loads them into my hay barn.. My adult son, is the hay guy.. he tears them down and hand stuffs the feeders every day... I also switched from a bagged grain/pellet mixed goat feed to plain old whole oats (saving about $3 a bag)...I buy a 50lb of BOSS every other week for ($19 a bag)...

THEN>>> I took the money I was saving on feed, added that to the money from kid sales.. and tested my ENTIRE herd (I have nubians) for G6S!!~ (best money I ever spent.-I love this breed and once I found out about this genetic defect and that there was a simple, one time test for it - I HAD to spend the money/or I would never have been able to enjoy another breeding/kidding season)... Testing has had it's own rewards.. it has really driven my kid sales & reserves) ... I honestly never thought I'd ever come close to breaking even with the herd (never dreamed I might actually MAKE money LOL).. but just being open to trying some cost saving experimenting... worked out wonderful for us!!! (this is the 3rd kidding season with no alfalafa pellets.. so far we've had NO issues with milk fever.. all does are taking on first breedings.. haven't seen the drop in production -I was fearful of that happening, but it didn't- does all look great and seem to feel better in late pregnancy... they actually get up and go out to browse (right up to their due date) instead of laying around the hayfeeders morning... gone too is the udder edema.. my husband's tax accountant couldn't believe the change in my numbers!!! so??? is there anything wrong with pushing alfalfa pellets and concentrates??? not if you like the way you herd looks and you can afford it. The answer was no to both for my own herd... there will always be people in both camps.. 

susie, mo ozarks


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## GoldenWood Farm (May 31, 2003)

Susie I would love to PM you and talk feeds and calcium carbonate. I am looking to actually start mixing my own feeds since I will be using calcium carbonate for the first time this year. But I am so terrified of mixing my own feed because I am afraid I know little about goat nutrition when it comes to feeds and what not (I have just done what my old mentor did..sort of *laughs).

Justine


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## yarrow (Apr 27, 2004)

GoldenWood Farm said:


> Susie I would love to PM you and talk feeds and calcium carbonate. I am looking to actually start mixing my own feeds since I will be using calcium carbonate for the first time this year. But I am so terrified of mixing my own feed because I am afraid I know little about goat nutrition when it comes to feeds and what not (I have just done what my old mentor did..sort of *laughs).
> 
> Justine


pm all you'd like....be forewarned I have become a less is sometimes more... type of gal...when it comes to herd care/feeding... LOL

susie, mo ozarks


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## Frosted Mini's (Nov 29, 2012)

Where I live, it makes No sense at all to use anything for calcium besides alfalfa....because alfalfa and grass hay are the same price in this area. But, I can see where if you couldn't get alfalfa hay, how expensive it would be to feed out pellets, etc., and if there were a different way to get the calcium to them that works, how it makes sense.

Mygoat-are you a pre-vet or pre-med or some other science-based student? I have my bachelor's in animal science and had planned to go to vet school, so I totally feel for you having to take all those classes! I actually kind of like General chem, but Organic, not so much, and Biochemistry was the WORST!


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## andabigmac (Jan 10, 2011)

I pay the same for alfalfa, grass hay, and oat straw per bale here. Grass hay and straw are impossible to find too. It's pretty sad when you start considering opening a bale of alfalfa for bedding.


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## GoldenWood Farm (May 31, 2003)

Alfalfa pellets for me right now are in the $19 a bag range and alfalfa hay is close behind it with way more waste. The calcium carbonate for me would reduce my feed costs HUGELY.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Alfalfa hay square bales are close to $20 a bale here in South Texas. I stopped feeding those two years ago.


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## lordoftheweeds (Dec 27, 2012)

What we have been doing is rinsing all of our egg shells , letting them dry and then grinding them up in a spice grinder. I just sprinkle some on their grain and mix it up, they don't seem to mind. We have 14 layers and 2 goats so we have plenty of egg shells.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

~grinz~ lordoftheweeds, eggshells are made of.....

:drum:

....calcium carbonate! 

Alfalfa is $18.65 a square bale here in SouthEast Texas. Alfalfa pellets are $12.95 @ 50lbs. That makes alfalfa pellets MORE expensive than my 18% lactation pellet, which is the concentrate that I feed on the milkstand. ($11.35 @ 50lbs) Chaffaye alfalfa is $13.10 a 50lb bag.

Sometimes I miss Colorado, which my vet calls "The Magical Land of Cheap Alfalfa". If alfalfa and grass hay were the same price, I'd buy alfalfa hay. Right now, I am *considering* switching to top dressing with calcium carbonate, and certainly have nothing against it. The reason I am considering it, though, is because I have 10 acres that is jam-packed with sensitivebriar, bundleflowers, and purple prairie clover, all of which are Texas native legumes, high in protein and trace minerals. I also have a TON of engelman daisy, sundrops, maxamillion sunflowers, and spiderwort, which are deep rooted broadleafs, high in trace minerals (and calcium!). Not to mention the sugarberry saplings, catsclaw vine, and mustang grape vines, again, all deep rooted, high in protein, and good sources of calcium.

I don't HAVE to feed alfalfa, as the goats get to browse all over this place, munching these native, highly nutritive plants (which they love.  ), so I am *considering* cutting out the alfalfa pellets, top dressing with calcium carbonate, and likely adding beet pulp to my feed regimen instead.

I'll look into it come spring. 

If we nose dive off of the Fiscal Cliff, and the Farm Bill goes out the window, causing milk prices to shoot through the roof, I will likely go that route sooner.


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