# heat cycle questions



## Christina R. (Apr 22, 2004)

Corabelle was 3 years old in August. She had her 2nd calf the end of Oct. She has always been the kind of gal to definitely let me and any bull within 500 miles of our house that she is in heat. I take her to a bull about an hour and a half away, so getting the heat cycle down is important to me. After this last calf I sould definitely tell when she was in heat for the first two times, but more than one person said don't breed them on the first cycle as they tend to not settle (remember there is a ride involved here), so I listened. Her second cycle I was ready to go and on the Saturday she just didn't show outstanding signe of heat, so I figured it would be the next day. Saturday evening she was bawling her head off, but it could have been her "I do believe you are 30 seconds late feeding me" bawling, so I figured even if she was showing signs of heat, I'd take her the next morning. The next morning I get the trailer arranged, the bull arranged, and she acts as docile as can be.

Here we are three weeks later, and she is docile out there. I've thought of AIing her, but dexter semen is about $85. per straw and again someone has told me with the bull she gets serviced more thatn once (boy that is an understatement) as opposed to a one shot deal with the AI. I've always read other posts with questions about detecting heat and thought, I can tell when mine is in heat any day of the week. Not so true now...actually she is out there bawling right now, so I should check things out. 

Do any of you have any ideas? Have you had good luck with AI if you hit the day right? Thanks.


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## Christina R. (Apr 22, 2004)

I just went out there and didn't see any other signs (she just wanted some hay). The other signs are usually lifting her tail, some mucus, a gleam in her eye (trust me on this), and using her tongue to try to pull me close to her, trying to chase me when I immediately see her. There wasn't any of this last ime or right now. I didn't see the usual blood discharge a few days later (but it is real dark when I milk). Guess that's enough extra info.


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

If she hasn't cycled, and you haven't bred her. Give her a shot of lute, see if she comes into heat. If she doesn't, after waiting 5 days (to see if she comes into heat), give her another shot. With cows it is not uncommon to give a shot of lute, especially those who aren't showing strong signs. She could have come into heat, and you might not have noticed because it was subtle.



Jeff


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Are you milking her? If you are can your breeder milk her for you? The reason I ask is that your best bet, if feasible would be to bring her to the bull and leave her for a month.


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## Christina R. (Apr 22, 2004)

I am milking her. The breeder won't milk her. I guess I just need to relax and trust that I'll notice her heat cycle and she'll get rebred in a timely manner. It just concerns me when the winter storm cycles come in as far as traveling with her to breed and as far as the calving time. I guess if I don't get her bred this weekend, we'll be back to an end of Oct. baby again next year. God was gracious this year, so I'm sure everything will be okee dokey next year.


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

I'm not clear whether you took her to see the bull or not.

If she did go and was bred, giving her a shot of lutelase will cause her to abort. It will also bring her into heat.

The pro's use lutelase to time the cow's coming into heat so they can be dead certain when to AI her. We amateurs try to read the signs telling when to breed her. The whole deal depends so much on getting the timing right.

I keep a bull with my herd at all times. He breeds them when they're ready and I get to sleep late.

If you can't do that, second choice would be to rent a bull for long enough to cover two heat cycles. Equally good would be to send her to the bull for two heat cycles.

Milking complicates the timing. It also may slightly disrupt the heat cycles.

I don't know how you could do it positively in one visit, when the bull may take two cycles to get the job done, even when you get the timing right.

Given the situation, milking and all, I'd vote for a rent-a-bull as the best choice.

My bull Brenn just came home from servicing a herd, and now he's standing stud for a couple of visiting heifers.

See if you can't find someone near you that will do that for you.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Of course another alternative would be the bull coming to visit her.


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## Christina R. (Apr 22, 2004)

Genebo, I didn't bring her to the bull last time as she wasn't showing signs of heat and I didn't want to make the trip for nothing.

I'll contact the breeder to see if her will let me bring the bull to my house. What are the chances that the bull will panic with being somewhere new and want to bust through the fences? There aren't any cattle anywhere nearby, so there isn't a chance her will sense another cow in heat and try to break through for that reason.

Is lute a hormone? I've never done hormones with Corabelle and don't want to.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I'd never jump the fence if you penned me with a cute girl.................


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

Lutalyce is also known is Prostoglandin. It is a naturally occuring hormone in a cow during the time of ovulation. When you inject PGF (Lutalyce) you are prematurely giving her that hormone which will cause her to cycle. It does not effect the animal in any way, such as mentally or physically. It is used to synchronize animals. It does not go into the milk, it is not a hormone like BST. There is another hormone that is also a naturally occuring hormone, it is called cystorelin, or GNRH. That is given to help drop the egg, because some hold it beyond the life of the semen, then they drop it. It also does not hurt the animal.


Keep in mind, if your having troubles getting her to cycle, or she isn't showing signs. It will not hurt the animal to give it a shot of lutalyce (PGF), to bring her into heat. Keep in mind, if your worried about giving her that hormone, then you dont want cows, as they naturally produce that hormone when they ovulate.


Jeff


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Keep in mind that if you are a woman who may be pregnant, or even a man who may have contact with a woman who may be pregnant you don't want to have any contact with lutalyse.


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## yarrow (Apr 27, 2004)

What dosage on the lute? 
susie


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## Christina R. (Apr 22, 2004)

I'll talk to the vet about getting lute on Tuesday. Here's two questions that some of you may have something to add to...

Is it typical for a cow that ALWAYS was VERY regular to come into heat and let the whole worls know it to show more subtle symptoms after a subsequent calf?

What are your ideas on just arranging to have Corabelle AI'd? (See 1st post and what someone else told me). Those of you who AI, do you have good luck and those of you who have experience with using both AI methods and bulls is there a big difference in the success rates? Corabelle always settled on the first breeding with the bull. Thanks!


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## OD (May 25, 2004)

I have only AI'd my cows three times, but I got three calves, so it worked fine for me. They were always with other cows, & we would breed them 12 hours after they started riding another cow.


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

With bulls you have more semen, however with AI the semen is deposited directly inside the cervix. Some farms keep a bull around for "clean up", incase they didn't take with AI. The success of AI can depend on you, the owner. If you detect a strong heat, and the AI tech gets there on time, you have a good chance at getting her bred. Cows can be harder, however some cows are just as easy as heifers. With the lutalyse you could time breed her, however when I used it recently, the heifer came into heat 72 hours after, she began showing signs 24 hours prior, and actually continued for another 24 hours after being bred, wasn't a quick heat, like the natural heats. When I say natural, I mean a heat that wasn't induced by giving her a shot of PGF. The only reason to use it, is because of your case. You are having trouble detecting her heat, there might be some question. This way it will bring her in heat, and you can get her bred. Keep in mind, she might not come into heat after giving her a shot, because she didn't have a CL (corpus luteum). So you wait 10 days and do it again, some wait 5. But 10 gives you 5 days beyond the time when she would come into heat. Either way, good luck!


Jeff


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

JeffNY said:


> after waiting 5 days (to see if she comes into heat), give her another shot. Jeff


You need to wait seven days before giving a second shot of Lutelyze. I gave a heifer a shot and usually on my cows they start cycling at three days, the heifer started cycling on day five. You shouldn't give a shot of Lutelyze until after the fifth day of their heat cycle to bring them back into heat.

Bobg


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

There is a patch that my vet places on the cows back (near the tail) that turns red when she comes into heat after he has injected her with lute. Some come into heat within 3 hours some three days. Either way AI within 12 hours of the patch turning colors.


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## astrocow (Mar 11, 2005)

Tell me more about this patch your vet uses. I'd ike to mention it to my vet.


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## JSIA (Nov 5, 2005)

I think YFR is refering to a heat detector. We use them. The stick on the tail hed and when the cow gets mounted it changes colors. Ours go white to red. I may be wrong if I am please tell me.

PS usually I'm a lerker but decide to join in and make my first post tonight. 

JSIA


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## astrocow (Mar 11, 2005)

Okay, this is probably a really stupid thing to ask but....
Does the patch change color from getting rubbed on by another animal? Is it along the same principle of using chalk on a cows' fur to see if it gets rubbed off by another mounting it?


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

Select Sires sells them, they are called estrus alert I beleive. They go on the tail head, and when they are mounted the white paint or atleast whiter than red paint gets worn off, exposing the red. Another method I have seen is taking red chalk, rub it on the tail head (I beleive it is chalk) and when it gets worn off, that means a mount. Two different methods, I personally would prefer the estrus alert.



Jeff


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## JSIA (Nov 5, 2005)

Yes, it's similar to chalk. There are several different ones out on the market. As mention by Jeff one is known as Estrus Alert. We have used this one, but the silver is easily scratched off to expose the red (which means shes ready to breed) by tree branches and the like. Therefore, the heat becomes faulty, because she wasn't being mounted. However, these are cheap. We use Bovine Beacon which are the same concept, only it takes more pressure to change the color. These also glow in the dark, which is very handy when you're bringing the herd to the barn when its dark. Both of these are applied with a glue and do not harm the animal. They can either be removed by hand or fall off after a fashion. They are very handy items. Any other questions I would be glad to answer.

JSIA


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