# LGD breed questions?



## colemangirly (Sep 30, 2010)

Okay, I have a couple questions for all you LGD owners. I am thinking of getting a LGD for my goats and our property. We have 40 acres. We are in South Central Missouri in the middle of the Ozarks forests. We do not have it all fenced. What we do is keep the goats in a small paddock made of 15 cattle panels at night and bad weather. During the day they go out into the forests to browse inside of electric net fence that I move every two weeks. This accomplishes rotating, clearing brush, plenty for them to eat, etc. We do NOT have any pasture, it is all scrub brush and like national forest land. The goats LOVE it. We do have lots of coyotes and have a few bears and mountain lions. Right now things have been fine and putting them inside cattle panel at night have kept them safe. However, I really want to make sure that they are protected at all times. 

I have been listening on here and talking and researching. I am not in a terrible hurry, but don't want to wait 3 years either. I am looking for an animal that will protect my goats and other animals as well as the family. I would prefer to steer away from a full Pyr as to the barking (excessive that is). I don't mind barking when something is wrong, but would rather not have non stop barking all night. I figured a Pyr/Anatolian cross or such would be good, but now I am curious. Someone mentioned other breeds like Kangle and Spanish Mastiff. I have always loved Mastiffs. Are all Mastiffs LGD's? Lots of people here have Mastiffs and Bull Mastiffs, but I don't think they are LGD's, am I wrong?

I really want something that will protect, without being overy aggressive with strangers. My kids have friends over quite a bit, and we adults have cook outs often. I don't want Komondor for this reason.

Can some of you give me opinions on temperment and suitability for our situation? I know that individual dogs will vary, but I am talking about general temperment. It can get VERY hot here, and also lots of ice more than snow, but would prefer the shorter coat if possible, lots of briars and brambles.

Trying to make absolutely sure before we make a decision. I know they take commitment and work, I'm fine with that. It's what I love to do, work with my animals. 

Oh yeah, we have goats, chickens, horses, and kids.

Thanks
Tadpole Acres


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## jordan (Nov 29, 2006)

No, all Mastiff breeds are not LGD's, but you can pretty much take it to the bank that all LGD's will bark :thumb: The Spanish Mastiff does share some common traits with other mastiff breeds such as the EM or Bullmastiff, but IMO, has a stability and intelligence that really sets it apart! Without having alot of background information on your experience with dogs, but from the information that you've given about what you are looking for and the fact that you like mastiffs, yes, temperament-wise, the SM could be a very good fit. Nurture versus nature does have an impact too - you will get out what you put in!

In your situation, socializing your dog will be essential and in my experience, socialization does not adversely effect how a Spanish Mastiff LGD performs their job of protecting the livestock and farm. Unless you have a paranoid personality :gaptooth: not every visitor is the enemy and your dogs don't need to treat them as such! Socializing tends to give the dogs parameters to judge by.
I also have alot of people come to the farm and every single time, I have seen the dogs give warning barks, greet the visitors with me, then back off a short distance to observe for the duration. I have also seen my very well socialized dogs go balistic with a few visitors as well, pacing, snarling, teeth bared, etc. In each of those instances, I trusted my dogs instincts and asked the people to leave - they were more than willing to do so at my request.

My dogs do fine in sub zero temps as well as the hellish, humid summer we've been experiencing the past few years. They need water and shelter available.

You have quite a few knowledgable LGD owners and breeders in MO. I don't know if you are familiar with this group, http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/workingLGDs/ but many of them post often on it.
Good luck with whatever breed or cross you choose!
Lois


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> lots of coyotes and have a few bears and mountain lions





> they go out into the forests to browse inside of electric net fence





> I really want to make sure that they are *protected at all times*.


You need 2 dogs.

One should be a true LGD breed that stays with the animals *ALL *the time.

The other can be any breed for your "pet" around the house.

Don't try and make one dog serve* both *purposes, or something bad will surely happen


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## colemangirly (Sep 30, 2010)

I think I need to make it clear that our LGD will not be a pet. When I meant to protect the rest of us is that we are out most of the day. If something was around I would want the LGD to also alert us. For example, my kids are always messing with the goats. If they were out there I wouldn't want the dog to only protect the goats, but us as well. I don't need a pet for the house, I just want an animal that will be friendly enough around all of us, including the kids and my hubby that only occasionally ventures into the goat pens.

I have raised dogs off and on most of my life, but never with a LGD. I have breed and raised Chows and a few other breeds. I got out of it because I think the world is too overpopulated with dogs and most people don't take care of them. I hate the thought of my animals going to a home that might not be ideal. There are enough others and mutts out there that are fine for pets.

What I am looking for is a working animal to become an addition to our family and farm. All our animals have a function and are not pets. They are friendly and socialable, and seem like pets, but they have a purpose first. 

I don't mind barking to alert us, just not nonstop barking all night like a few pyrs that I know of. I know all LGD's bark. I am looking for a breed that uses that bark as a warning or to alert us to a potential problem, not as the main method of random telling everyone they are out there.

I will look up the group that was mentioned, thank you.

Tadpole Acres


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

If your kids are always out with the goats, and are feeding the dog, the dog is going to accept them as part of his overall pack. Your dog will also guard what he feels is his territory.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I just want an animal that will be friendly enough around all of us, including the kids and my hubby that only occasionally ventures into the goat pens.



Any dog will accept those it's raised around as family.

Just spend time with them from the beginning, and they will know you belong


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You need 2 dogs.
> 
> One should be a true LGD breed that stays with the animals *ALL *the time.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with Bearfootfarm's advice here. You will want an LGD that really likes to stay in the stock. Although I don't own a 100% Maremma, my two half Maremma half Anatolian boys show strong will to stay in stock and not wander. I attribute that to the Maremma half which is noted for being a close guarding breed, more I think, than the Anatolian.










Kangals also are not prone to roaming, they may chase something farther off than other breeds but will return. They are very much homebodies in that they like regularity and staying close to what they guard. Spanish Mastiffs like to lay in the stock and mine will run to the perimeter to check out threats but always go back to be in close with the goats, and will also sleep with them during the day.










Get two dogs, at least. You might think too about getting two different breeds. Or three dogs - two for the stock, one for your home guard. Just some thoughts....


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## horsepoor21 (Mar 14, 2007)

Our Maremma is definitely a homebody . We fenced in our driveway as she kept going on the road but only because that's where the coyote's dens are ,just on the other side of the road in the neighbor's fields . She'd stand on the road and make cars stop while she barked at the coyotes .LOL 

But she has never run off or even went out of sight . Our Kangal sticks around too but he's so young ... I hope he stays that way !


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Goatress said:


> I have to agree with Bearfootfarm's advice here. You will want an LGD that really likes to stay in the stock. Although I don't own a 100% Maremma, my two half Maremma half Anatolian boys show strong will to stay in stock and not wander. * I attribute that to the Maremma half which is noted for being a close guarding breed, more I think, than the Anatolian.*


the anatolians tendancy to wander comes from their origin as LGDXstreetdog. the street dogs wander to survive. give the working breeder community another 30 years and the trait should be mostly gone. they've really come a long way. i wish they'd label it as the american product that it is.


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## Goat Servant (Oct 26, 2007)

We have two. One full Anatolian & the other has a 1/4 Pyr in him. They dont wander. One whines the other barks but it isnt non stop. The decibal isnt annoying at all.
When my grandson was 8 he would come with me to help bottle feed. The dogs knew he belonged.


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

my suggestion.... get an Anatolian or Kangal for the shorter hair.

tell the breeder exactly what you are looking for and make sure they have been temperament tested!

Spoil it rotten! make it a dual purpose dog.... socialize it, put it out with the livestock with you... you become the alpha dog. Go to classes with other dogs for obedience training, let people touch the puppy.

for the fenced goats... when out there let the puppy run in the confinement, let the pup get shocked when young... it will quickly learn that the fence bites, and after a few times... he/she will have great respect for fences from now on. remember if the goats aren't used to a dog, they can be brutal on a puppy! perhaps put the pup in a pen next to the goats.. let both get used to each other.

grow the pup up and at a basic min. 18 months 2.5 to 3 years is better, then introduce the opposite sex puppy. All the time you spent with the first dog teaching, training, will be taught to the puppy by the older dog and of course you. getting two puppies at the same time can cause problems.. the pups bond to each other and not to the livestock.

If you put the pup out with the livestock even if your kids feed them... there is no guarantee that the dog will accept others, the animals must be socialized and obedience trained. All of this says... you are alpha! On a leash the dogs will be nice because you have used a leash when obedience training, taking them to pets mart or pet co and let everyone touch them as pups and onward through adulthood. Off leash at home with their charges... not an entity to recon with. Off leash at home with humans/alphas around they will relax.

a puppy will go right through hog panels. 

this is only my opinion... like a grain of salt.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I have 2 maremmas, I have coyotes and maybe a bobcat.
I dont have mountain lions and bears.

They have bounded to my family and grandsons. Especially me. Boomer will follow me when I clean out stalls and work and while his brother watches the sheep.

They both work as a team, and will chase and bark when anything gets close to their property. But mostly they are quite. (not barking all the time)

Yesterday I saw a deer running through the pasture, my two LGD's saw it too, I have never seen them run full throttle till then. They were quick!! I never seen a leg touch the ground, their stride was long, beautiful, graceful and very serious. I was impressed. I just hope they never figure out that they could leep over the 5 ft fence if they wanted too.....LOL


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## MonsterMalak (Apr 15, 2011)

I raise the Turkish Boz Shepherd and the Kangal breeds. I find that even a family PET will function as a ranch protector. If you have your stock within 2-300 yards, the dog will protect all in the area. My dogs protect my land, and all the neighbors ranches also. 
But I do subscribe to the utilization of different breeds. The Turkish would fill the void of the go out and get them, or guard the whole farm type dog. A pyrenees type would hold the fort down. 
Turkish types will bark as they are running out after them, where the Pyrenees will stand(usually by the bedroom window) and bark all night. 
All depends on what you want. Good luck, and love what you get. They will guard 3x harder if they are loved.


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## pygmybabies (Apr 24, 2010)

We ended up with the GP and yes the one year old did wander try to escape when we first got her, but our boy who was 7 weeks old has always stayed right with the goats, chickens, and absolutely loves the bottle calves! They do bark at night but I barely hear them as they are in the pasture. They chase off all the coyotes foxes and possums. They are friendly and gentle to everyone that comes over, our male is actully a little shy to people. They are very sweet. These are our first LGDs and so far I am VERY pleased, we havent lost a chicken or a goat since getting them last year, this is the only lgd i have expereince with and only a year. Our lgd just had nine puppies 4 weeks ago.


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

oh pictures of puppies!!!! you can't say "i have month old puppies" and not post pictures!!!


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## pygmybabies (Apr 24, 2010)

I know....but I can't get them to hold still for the picture...working on that and promise to post my guard puppies in the next day or so


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

get someone to hold one at a time <giggle>

the original poster of this thread lives in the same state you do.... maybe she would be interested... after all who can't resist a cute cuddly big puppy!

I love puppy breath!!! the person that creates puppy breath in a bottle will make $$millions... at least off of me! ROFL!!!


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