# Pony club vs. 4h horse club



## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

I am looking for everyone's opinions? 

I am really leaning towards 4h, but my girl friend is thinking about pony club for her daughters. So we are trying to figure out what would be more fun for our daughters???

My oldest with be joining and her 2 oldest daughters. All have their own horses, all just like playing around in the yard, have been in formal lessons, but not serious. Just for fun! Never done the showing thing.


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## crittermomma (Sep 26, 2013)

It depends on what type of riding they enjoy - 4H I believe can be Western or English riding, but Pony Club is exclusively English riding. And for both - it is not just riding - they also do research and learn about horses, etc. I signed up my girls for 4H a few years ago, and they didn't enjoy the reports, etc, requirement. They just wanted to ride.


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

Thanks! My daughter rides both English and western, her daughters are one of each. 

Her girls have been in 4h for a while, they have done the reports for goat and chicken 4h. My daughter has watched them do it and they know what is expected. 

The first 4h meeting is this week. I think we are going to go and say hi! and most likely sign up.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

No matter which they join, the club will only be as good as the leaders. When we first got horses, my DD joined a 4-H club because we wanted to learn as much as we could. And, basically, we learned nothing. I only know what I know now because of all the research that I did.


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## CountryMom22 (Nov 27, 2014)

Pony Club is English riding only and much more formal than 4H. If the girls just want to have fun, 4H is the way to go. Agree with Dizzy about the leaders. I had a great leader for 4H horse club but my small animal leader was more clueless than the kids!


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## luvmyjersey1 (Dec 14, 2009)

We've Pony Clubbed for over 10 years. While the USPC program is extending into Western, our PC is english. I especially like that the ratings (now called certifications) have both a riding and extensive horse management test that must be mastered. When a C2 walks into a new barn, everyone understands the skill levels that she brings. Most of the Olympic Eventers are Pony Club grads and many jumpers and dressage pros also came through Pony Club. While the horse management skills take some work to master, they produce a much safer, more well rounded horse person. Happy to answer any questions anyone might have about the PC program.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I'd check them both out locally to see which group of people you want to work with, though if you have a strictly Western rider, probably 4-H would work best. I was in Pony Club as a teenager, loved it. I rode mostly English, my mother was the instructor though.  I didn't get terribly high in the ranks, but had a good time and learned good basic skills. I just wasn't ambitious.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

dizzy said:


> No matter which they join, the club will only be as good as the leaders. When we first got horses, my DD joined a 4-H club because we wanted to learn as much as we could. And, basically, we learned nothing. I only know what I know now because of all the research that I did.


I agree - go check them both out. My kids tried 3 different 4H clubs. None were good. Some only rode at the county fair; others only did non-riding things (even non-horse things)...like arts and crafts (gag)....and one was a mix, but it wasn't very welcoming to a new kid, and my dd didn't want to continue.

No pony club in our area, I would have loved to try that as well.

Ultimately I ran a 4H club for a while as a spinoff of the one they were in and left; and it was better, but we didn't have very many kids. We did not ride in our 4H meetings because it would have required kids to either trailer somewhere, or all board together.


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## farmmaid (Jan 13, 2003)

I agree that any program is only as good as the leaders, BUT..........As a 22year former 4-H leader, I loved the overall expectations, not as formal and "MUST achieve" attitude.


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## harvestmoon1964 (Apr 24, 2014)

My wife and kids have been involved in USPC for years (wife is now a joint DC) and there is a western program though English (particularly eventing) is the predominant focus, though you can specialize in upper levels in dressage and jumping rather than the traditional track of eventing.
http://www.ponyclub.org/?page=Western

My kids have done both and have learned infinitely more about horsemanship through USPC than 4H.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

We have done both 4-H and Pony Club, one with each kid. Kids needs were different, so their horse activities each went in a different direction. I like each of the "Clubs" but they have quite different focus' in reaching their goals.

Son did the Pony Club. He enjoyed the horses, but certainly would not have been happy with showing in local shows, doing the "round and round" classes at SLOW gaits or enjoy that kind of riding at all. The Pony Club had a listed set of goals the kid needed to perform at each level of rating. Kid had to demonstrate those skills, knowledge, to the person who is evaluating the performance of child. Skills included riding tests, jumping at levels consistant with child skills, horsemanship with live animals, demonstrations of various things, answering questions about how and why certain methods were used. 

Competitions in Pony Club are called Rally, one in our Region for each discipline of English riding, over the course of the summer, with the Knowledge testing (no horses involved) done in early Spring. Each of the Rallies is done by a set of Rules, listed procedures, with LOTS of detail in how kids deal with protests, tests done, expectations of the kids. Formal interaction is expected from everyone, with politeness during all steps of the procedures. Kids competed as Teams, with 4-5 members on each Team. Kids are "handed over" at the start of Rally day, not allowed to interact during the day with parents or Club adults. The Team is SUPPOSED to be complete in themselves, helping each other get thru the day without those adults. In riding Rallies (Dressage, Eventing, Games, Showjumping) the kids had Horsemanship Coach who oversaw them while walking courses, out practicing jumps. Not sure if this is still quite as strict now, things have changed since we were in it. Kids rode against other kids at their rating levels, age wasn't a big factor, skill was the thing. Kids did ALL the horse keeping, grooming, stall cleaning, helping each other be well presented before Safety Inspection to ride and compete. Family NOT ALLOWED in the stable area after specified times. Points made riding were added to other Team members points for the final Team Score. Team Captain would "do the talking" for any Team member who thought things were not done correctly, argued if reasons were needed on a Protest. I thought that was good for teaching kids that every Adult decision was not always correct, so SPEAK UP. Often decisions were changed in favor of the kids, adding points to their scores.

Son enjoyed having to only compete at 4 "BIG" activities each year. Riding Rallies last 2 days of competition, with kids and equines arriving the Friday night before it starts. He did not like Dressage, so skipped that Rally. He LIKED the excitement of the Jumping parts, going Cross-Country at speed, skill with speed of the Games as well as hanging off the side of his hors!. His riding practices with an instructor was lots more fun than lessons from "mom and dad". He got along well with the girls in his group, but we went thru 3 different Pony Clubs before we got one that "really rode" and worked at improving the kids. Myself and other parents ended up after the mess of the other Clubs, got together to form our own Pony Club. We had a lot of fun, did quite a lot of activities with the horses and getting kids to learning experiences. I was Horsemanship Coach because I was the only one who actually had horse skills, rode, knew what was needed to teach the skills to get horse performing. We hired in evaluators for testing the kids when they would change Levels, so no chance of anyone saying kids couldn't perform as needed. I remember one Evaluator being quite impressed that each kid could do the Emergency Dismount with skill and ease, at walk, trot and canter. No whining from ANY kid when asked to show the skill, which she said is NOT common! I was ALWAYS very proud of our kids, they worked hard, didn't cry or whine EVER. Not always the case with some other kids I saw in action!!

Daughter was aimed towards 4-H, since she was smaller when she started, only had a large horse to ride. Her old, small horse had died of old age, so she had to be able to manage the 16H horse son had used in Pony Club earlier. He was VERY safe, but needed a true Rider to give him directions when ridden. Daughter was in 4-H with her dog and had Market Lambs, before she started the horses. We had very knowledgable 4-H Leaders that had goals for the kids. The Meetings were organized, with goals in running Meetings with Roberts Rules of Order. Kids were Officers with duties to have presentable at the next Meeting. They had study groups for learning knowledge and competing in County and District testing. Kids compete as individuals, with scoring in catagories added together for final scoring awards. Riding skills were tested at County Shows, with placings in all the normal Classes added up for final scores. Highest point kids could then compete at State Show against other County winners. It was a very desirable goal for all the kids, to be State Representative. Usually got your picture in the newspaper, with your State Placings listed later if you did well. Daughter got to be State Representative a couple times, was very exciting to haul and compete!

I will agree with other folks, that the amount you learn in 4-H is ALL ABOUT the Leader you have. I asked around before joining the Club we did, and it turned out to be the best in the County. Other Clubs were not organized, had few meetings, kids were not well prepared unless they had outside instruction.

I do think the final goals of 4-H and Pony Club are not similar. Among the Clinics I was required to attend to be the Horsemanship Coach, we were told by a National Level Evaluator at the higher levels, that we MUST do all we could to make sure the kids "did not fail" in being evaluated or in competition. Evidently there are a LOT of insecure kids, they can't take ANY kind of failure! Kind of a surprise to me, since there is always some "win and lose" with horse training and kids. They are LEARNING, not born perfect! But anyway, at some of these high level evaluations, the Clinician who worked with them the day before, would DRILL, DRILL, DRILL those kids and horses until they were all worn OUT! Horses and kids (to me and others) were WORSE than when the started, exhausted with doing that many jumps, some were actually lamed! Good grief, 6 to 8 rounds would be over 80 jumps!! Way too much work when horse is not used to being worked 3-4 hours a day. But back to that "kid can't fail" thinking, 
so more practice MUST fix things! I wrote National Pony Club about it. They were not happy with me and said I must have misunderstood things.

In my opinion, 4-H has always been about "presentation of your product", whether that is showing a lamb, a horse, or making clothing. You want kid doing the BEST job possible, so their item is chosen best. It is economics oriented, with the best calf or lamb selling for the highest money. Best made dress, canned goods, will enable the maker to sell their skills for cash money too, if it is needed. Maybe keep their families well dressed or fed. Horse skills, knowledge, will help kid do the best presentation of whatever animal they are showing. At times the best rider will win over the better made horse, skill prevails over a more expensive, but less skillfully presented animal.
It is truly about WINNING, the focus is on making kid a WINNER in whatever category he/she is competing in. Back when 4-H got started, these skills helped kids earn money from selling animals, projects, so they could start farming, go to College, be a better educated person for the rest of their lives. Work was rewarded! Often lots of family help in preparing happened. At times now, it seems the Parents do most of the work with the horses in grooming and preparing before a Show. I do think kids need to be able to mostly prepare everything themselves at young ages, 11-12 years. I was kind of mean that way, kids both did preparation themselves with cleaning tack, preparing trailer, grooming the horse. I had clean clothes ready, lists the kids checked off so nothing was forgotten. I lifted a few saddles on until they got big enough. Kids did gain confidence, were accepting of wins and losses, it was NOT a heartbreaker if they didn't get first each class or competition. THOSE were the skills I wanted kids to learn, there is ONLY ONE winner. Try again. Kids did have plenty of ribbons thru the years, got firsts and other placings too. This LIFE skill will help them in many places all the years ahead. One loss is NOT the end of the world!! Practice harder, teach the horse so he improves too, do LOTS of things not just one. And sometimes, LIFE IS NOT FAIR, you have to keep going anyway.

I don't think that 4-H focusing on winning is bad, just different than Pony Club goals of being skilled individuals and Team Players to achieve their winning finish.

Which ever Club you aim kids at, the Parents MUST be involved in KNOWING THE RULES, getting kids educated in the Rules they will compete under. You can't argue "unfair" if you don't know the Rules and Procedures of this particular activity. Parent must be prepared to participate in these horse activities as helpers and Volunteers so things run smoothly.


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## harvestmoon1964 (Apr 24, 2014)

One of the things that we love about USPC is that it teaches kids how to lose, and I've seen that idea conveyed at rallies and championships as well as ratings all around the country.

They stress that idea as well. Safety is far too important to the organization, which is something I love about USPC. And letting kids move up thru the ratings when they aren't ready is not something I've seen done very often at all. I have seen kids failed at ratings. 

Hopefully your experience is a one-off.


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

Thanks everyone!


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Another aspect of 4H is that children can gain scholarships through the 4H program for college. Being in Canada, I am not sure if that is applicable there. 

I did both 4H and pony club with my daughters. 4H was not very good as the leader was only interested in western events, mostly rodeo. Pony club..very structured, emphasized safety, horse and barn management, riding skills and team building skills. 4H depends entirely on the leader. Pony Club has written rules, tests, etc. and is more structured, usually has a former PC member as a leader (at least where we lived).


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## lowrider04 (Dec 18, 2012)

As a former 4-h leader for 8 yrs and a Co-DC of a pony club I always sum up the difference by one thing. 4-h allows the parents to interact and help the child with the horse and activities (which means you get stuck with the dirty work just like a class project from school) pony club on the other hand is really into the nitty gritty of horsemanship and the everyday care of the animal, parents pretty much have to back off and let the child succeed or fail on their own, it can build character they tend to learn from each other and the older kids who have been there done that. My downfall was it was way to political and extremely costly where 4-h was not as intense but it was way more fun and not so stress full. Just my two cents. I wish I would have just stuck with 4-H and maybe my daughter would not have become so stressed out over the ratings that she would have stuck with it and not gave up her passion that she was so good at.


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## terri46355 (May 16, 2003)

I was in 4-H and loved it. We had a lot fun in addition to horsemanship. We had sleep overs in the barn of the leaders' farm that included a trail ride during the day, dinner and breakfast cooked over a fire, and a hayride Saturday night. Sunday morning we practiced horse showing. 

You also get to complete other projects. I learned how to bake; identify weeds, trees, and insects; along with many other things that you don't learn in school. 4-H taught me public speaking, demonstrating, everything horse related, and how to ride well. 4-H is good for kids who want to learn about the world around them.


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## HorsesNGoats (Feb 5, 2015)

Whatever you join, if the advisors are terrible (and some are. But some are awesome!!) or if they're good I suppose, ask some of the older kids, who have been at it for a while to help you!! They may know a trainer for a specific discipline, or just help you with what you need. Besides it can't hurt to have a few more friends!! &#128523;


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## HorsesNGoats (Feb 5, 2015)

sidepasser said:


> Another aspect of 4H is that children can gain scholarships through the 4H program for college. Being in Canada, I am not sure if that is applicable there.
> 
> I did both 4H and pony club with my daughters. 4H was not very good as the leader was only interested in western events, mostly rodeo. Pony club..very structured, emphasized safety, horse and barn management, riding skills and team building skills. 4H depends entirely on the leader. Pony Club has written rules, tests, etc. and is more structured, usually has a former PC member as a leader (at least where we lived).


Yep, it applies in America&#128515;


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## Phean (Dec 16, 2012)

i agree with the other posts. I started out in 4-H and moved on to PC when I had wanted to do more eventing and showing. I think all clubs are different. For me, PC went to a much higher level of ridding.


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## lowrider04 (Dec 18, 2012)

goodhors said:


> We have done both 4-H and Pony Club, one with each kid. Kids needs were different, so their horse activities each went in a different direction. I like each of the "Clubs" but they have quite different focus' in reaching their goals.
> 
> Son did the Pony Club. He enjoyed the horses, but certainly would not have been happy with showing in local shows, doing the "round and round" classes at SLOW gaits or enjoy that kind of riding at all. The Pony Club had a listed set of goals the kid needed to perform at each level of rating. Kid had to demonstrate those skills, knowledge, to the person who is evaluating the performance of child. Skills included riding tests, jumping at levels consistant with child skills, horsemanship with live animals, demonstrations of various things, answering questions about how and why certain methods were used.
> 
> ...



I'm not too good at writing but man did you ever NAIL it! extremely well said!


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