# Mosin Nagant Recoil



## Plainswalker (Sep 24, 2009)

I'd like to get a SHTF rifle and money is tight so I have been considering a Mosin Nagant. Many people have mentioned the recoil as a downside and I was wondering how bad it really is. I've looked at a couple tables online that calculated the recoil mathematically, but I would like some anecdotal evidence as well. My main reference point is my 870 20 ga. slug gun.

As a side note, I would probably buy this sporterized stock as well. 

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MGR341-1.html


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Recoil is relative, and everyone perceives it differently.

The only way to know if you find it managable to you is to shoot the gun yourself.

The cartridge isn't especially powerful so recoil shouldn't be a problem IF you know how to shoot


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hi Guys,
Its a moderate recoiling cartridge how ever it comes with very dated stock rather short for modern people. The very long barrel adds quite a bit of weight wich nominalises the felt recoil. That it is the currently inexpensive rifle avalible with inexpensive ammo goes a long way.
one way to lessen felt recoil with a Moisin Nagant is to change out the stock for a more modern desigmn unfortunatly this adds about another $100 bucks to the deal.
You can do this on down the road with all of them out there with the incease in numbers may make the price of the replacement stocks come down, you can also wait to make the change down the road.
For very green shooters this might be a lot of recoil but then almost anything would be to much.
Cheers,
Dutch


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

What causes part of the pain of the recoil, is the steel strap at the end of the wooden stock where it meets your shoulder. After firing at one time 50+ rounds of 150 grain 7.62X54mm Russian ammunition, your shoulder will begin to hurt! Even while wearing a padded shooting vest/ jacket with the extra padding over your right shoulder. 

To me comparison wise firing a 150 grain .30-06 Springfield round, it does has a little less recoil in my weapons chambered in that caliber, compared to the 7.62X54mm Russian rounds. Yet firing a 7mm Magnum does has more recoil, than the 7.62X54mm Russian rounds...

I found that going out and getting a 'medium sized' slip-on shotgun recoil pad helped with the "kick" of my Mosin-Nagant M-44 Carbines (I have 4 of them). If you can handle the recoil of a Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun, then you should be able to take the Mosin-Nagant rifle recoil. 

I don't have a 20 gauge shotgun, so I can't make the recoil comparison that the OP asked about..

I never did remove the folding bayonet, or swap out any the military issued wooden stocks on my Mosin-Nagant M-44 Carbines with one of those after market 'sporterized' replacement stocks.


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

Yep, part of that felt recoil is because of the shortish length of pull and the dern steel strap. I can "snug it up", but it's not comfortable for a tall, white boy, and comes at a sacrifice to accuracy.

That said, I don't like the Nagant, and IMO, the fact that it's inexpensive to purchase doesn't offset the fact that it's clumsy, clunky, doo-doo ball of a gun that carries like a log and has all the grace of a circus clown. The trigger stinks, and at least with the trhree or so I've owned, the safety is exceptionally difficult to operate.

Considering the lack of variety in ammunition (unless you reload) and what it costs to upgrade a Nagant, your money might be better spent on something else. If it's a mauser-type military-issue rifle you're after, I'd look to maybe an Enfield or Czeck mauser. Better yet, find a deal at the pawn shop on a domestic rifle chambered in something with more options....deer season is almost over, and the pawn shops get flooded with bargains this time of year.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

its a killer,,,at both ends....handload a down load, recoil pad, or learn to ride the recoil instead of fighting it. 

getting ready to purchase my 8th one for a military match.


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## keyhole (Dec 2, 2008)

Mosin Nagants are a decent gun for a cheap price. What you really need to look at though is the availability of ammo for your SHTF scenario!!!

What would be available during that scenario and how available do you think it would be? You need to purchase something that you can get ammo for, buy a lot of ammo for the Nagant and / or be prepared to use it as a club if you find yourself in the situation where you have run out of ammo.

Just my opinion though!!!


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

ace admirer said:


> its a killer,,,at both ends....handload a down load, recoil pad, or learn to ride the recoil instead of fighting it.
> 
> getting ready to purchase my 8th one for a military match.



Back in the day folks used to say it "kilt ahead and crippled behind" but there are ways around the behind part. 
Think of a "dead-blow" hammer, there are inserts made that yes add a little weight to the stock though some tools require a little extra for decent balance with longer barrels and shorter buttstocks, and the recoil reducer takes the felt recoil down to a manageable level. not something you can easily add to the synthetic stocks but wood stocks can be drilled out and the piece dropped in.

When dollars are tight, any long rifle is better than none at all, and if needed for defence, you aint gonna feel recoil, the adrenaline will be pumping and you wont feel a thing til its all over....... been there.

William
Idaho


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

89 for the gun and 89 for 440 rounds of ammo is hard not to like. 

don't feel one bit bad for adding a recoil pad to get the right lenth of pull 


i only wish they had nicer sights and the safty wasn't so clumsy there are some cool mods for the safty nob to add a wire loop to help when you have gloves on


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

I have owned two Mosin Nagants. I had the 91/30 version but I sold it when I was in a bit of a jam and needed some insta-cash. The recoil wasn't that bad, it's heavy and long so I'm sure that helps a bit. I still have an M44 which I like better because it is easier to trample through thick brush with. It is shorter, still pretty heavy though. It does kick a bit more than the 91/30 but I wouldn't consider it to be real bad. When I bought them they were by far the cheapest large caliber guns I could get. The ammo was and and still is super cheap for the corrosive surplus stuff. I've bought many cases of 300 rounds for about 50 bucks. I'm actually getting another 300 round tin for 50 bucks this week. I haven't found any surplus ammo for other guns that comes close to the same cheapness. Sure the trigger pull sucks, the safety is worthless, and the gun weighs as much as a small tree but I think for the price you can't beat it. For me it was the choice between no rifle and Nagant.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

swamp man makes a good point , that deer season is over most every were tax season is here many people are out of work , and rent and bills need to be paid , th egrocery store board this week picked up what looks like one guys whole gun collection , look around go to a show , there are many deals to be had 

a used marlin 30-30 or any number of guns would serve you well and be easier to scope , ligter easier handling ect.. so think it out they may be a bit more money up front and ammo may cost more but if you were going to hand load down a cartrige for a nargant why not have the much more versitile rifle and hand load to get the price near bulk price on ball ammo but have what you want.

if you want accurate distance then savage is the way to go

if you want short fast handling then a carbine is the way to go 

the nargant is a tank and solid and will work but it is neither fast convinient or has particularily great accuracy or power.


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## brosil (Dec 15, 2003)

I have a 91 Finn, a MN from the Finland State Arsenal. It's the most accurate firearm I have. It's also clumsy, has a lousy bolt design and doesn't really have a safety. Recoil is acceptable with standard military ammo but Norma hunting ammo HURTS and don't get a hold of Bulgarian armor-piercing. Remember, the rifle was designed by and for people who wore heavy wool clothes most of the time.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I've got a 91/30, a M44 and a 91/59, and to me, none of them kick as bad as a 12 gage.
They do seem have more muzzle blast though.


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## Plainswalker (Sep 24, 2009)

It sounds like I would have to replace the stock or at least get a butt pad. I've got long arms and I would want to be able to pull it in tight. It doesn't sound like recoil would be too much of a problem. I can handle a 12 ga. pump though I have had my teeth rattled a couple times. :stars: 

I am intrigued by the Marlin 30-30. I like that the 30-30 was designed to work with black powder so I would have more options for reloading. Also, the gun's price isn't too bad.

I'd ideally like to get a Savage Scout .308 but I wouldn't be able to buy one for the next couple years at least. 

I may just get a MN for now. One heavy, ugly, corrosive ammo shooting rifle that has a bad trigger, bad safety and kicks like a mule is better than no rifle at all.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I have a Mosin-Nagant but I've just never managed to getting around to firing it. Why did I buy it? I'm not sure. I guess I couldn't resist a $100 military rifle. It sits now on the gun rack looking forlorn. Compared to the Mauser, it's an ugly warthog. Compared to the Garand, it's a dead ugly warthog.

But for the price ... buy three, coat them in cosmoline, and put them aside for a future day. You may run out of ammo for them, but probably not until after you've used them to acquire a much better rifle. (Probably whatever the UN is equipping themselves with at the time.)


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## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

The Moissin is equivalent to a 30-06. NOT interchangable, but with about the same bullet weight and velocity=recoil.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Plainswalker said:


> It sounds like I would have to replace the stock or at least get a butt pad. I've got long arms and I would want to be able to pull it in tight. It doesn't sound like recoil would be too much of a problem. I can handle a 12 ga. pump though I have had my teeth rattled a couple times. :stars:
> 
> I am intrigued by the Marlin 30-30. I like that the 30-30 was designed to work with black powder so I would have more options for reloading. Also, the gun's price isn't too bad.
> 
> ...



If you already have a shotgun , i wouldn't worry to much about not having a rifle , save your money try others and get what you want.

the handi rifle is also a good starting point not maybe quit as fast to reload but accuracy , simple easy to clean you can reload just about any type of bullet for them besides being short light fast handling, they certainly make a decent hunting gun

not sure if you have tried a scout and liked it , when i tried one at the store looking thru a forward mounted scope was just not for me , i would rather a 2x wide angle scope with good eye releif like the nikon 2x7 32 mm that i have on my deer gun i shot a buck in a full run as it bolted out of a over grown christmas tree plot about 25 yards to my left angling away and to the right my first shot was fired when it was about 30 yards out nearly broadside , hit just behind the shoulder i was aiming at you need to lead them a bit it kept running i shot for the same shoulder (habit) the 12 ga slug hit right next to the first one but angled forward this time and got a much more solid hit as it went to it's knees my dad had been aiming for the shoulder from the other side (yes it was a drive) and got the spine while it was falling (i don't like to shoot them so much but i hate blood trailing and it was running for posted land)
my point is that for 20 - 150 yards a 2 x 7 scope is a fast handling quick shooting tool 
the next day i shot a buck at around 90 yards from a sitting position on my small hunting stool with one shot ,well placed high in the right shoulder , i saw him walking in and zoomed in to about 4x so i could see well i had to wait for him to get to just the right spot as there were some many trees i only had a short opening between them that i was waiting for him to walk into the window for the shot was only about 2 feet the nose was already behind the next tree when i shot him in the shoulder , that scope is just so versital terrific tool on any short to med range gun.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I am intrigued by the Marlin 30-30.


Why limit yourself to a 150 yd gun?

Save some money and buy a good used MODERN rifle in a caliber that will reach out at least 400 yds (which is most everything from a 243 on up)


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Why limit yourself to a 150 yd gun?
> 
> Save some money and buy a good used MODERN rifle in a caliber that will reach out at least 400 yds (which is most everything from a 243 on up)


a savage axis in 243 , 308 , 30-06, would cetainly fit that for 300 dollars , hard not to like that 330 for the package with a scope


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## Bruenor (Oct 2, 2008)

Whew! When I first read this title, I thought I read it as "Mosin Nagant Recall". I wondered, how can you recall a rifle made 100 years ago?


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

they are very nice rifles.......for the price. in ten years you guys will be saying "wished i had bought them when they were $70"


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

ace admirer said:


> they are very nice rifles.......for the price. in ten years you guys will be saying "wished i had bought them when they were $70"


Oh yeah. I used to buy P14 Enfields 5 at a time, then turn them in to magnum sporters. I'd get 6.5 Swedish Mausers and either rework them into scout rifles or sporters or use them as they were. I got one good SKS made in the Soviet bloc in the 50s and it was cheap. Now they are made in China and not nearly as nice and not $85, either. And I cry reading about the little Martini Cadets from the late 50s and early 60s. They would sell for $5 complete, or $10 for the action only. All mine cost much more, and now they cost much more than I paid. If you think a gun looks mildly interesting or cheap, get it.


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## Bruenor (Oct 2, 2008)

Two great pictures that I think of when talking about Nagants. I still haven't figured out what's going on with the guy holding the machete in the bottom picture.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Bruenor said:


> I still haven't figured out what's going on with the guy holding the machete in the bottom picture.


Maybe they had $5 left after buying the rifles.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

That or the two fellas that are holding machetes forgot to bring along their bayonets, for their Mosin-Nagant 1891-30's???? Probably falso orgot to bring the duct tape needed to attach them to their 1891-30 rifles?

At least my Mosin-Nagant M-44 Carbines, have the folding spike bayonet attached.
I love my bayonet tipped military rifles!!!!!


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Bruenor said:


> Two great pictures that I think of when talking about Nagants. I still haven't figured out what's going on with the guy holding the machete in the bottom picture.


Hey, if your fighting zombies, you WILL eventually run out of bullets... time proven fact! :lookout: When your out of bullets, it's machete time!

I've gotten two amazingly sharp and durable machetes from recent gunshows... work like a charm on wrist sized limbs, in the deer stand. Have to imagine they'd cause some serious hurt... After my shoulders are bloody from shooting thousands of rounds first!


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

radiofish said:


> At least my Mosin-Nagant M-44 Carbines, have the folding spike bayonet attached.
> I love my bayonet tipped military rifles!!!!!


I've been known to partly unfold the SKS spike bayonet and ram it in the ground to hold the rifle handy while calling coyotes.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> in ten years you guys will be saying "wished i had bought them when they were $70"


I can remember seeing them stuffed in 55 gallon barrels in DEPT STORES selling for $10-15 each, and no paperwork involved.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

It took me a while, but I found the website for anything you ever wanted to know about the different models and countries Mosin-Nagant models of rifles...

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM.htm

There are lots of photos and tons of info, just choose which country and model of the Mosin-Nagant rifle that you are interested in..


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

7.62 Mosin-Nagant Model 44, with Wolf commercial ammo will have around 16 lbs of recoil force.

That is nearly identical to your average 20 load


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## scott (May 11, 2002)

I've never found the recoil to be offensive.... my 12 ga winchester 1300 is much more painful to shoot.


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

Over the last year, I've picked up three of them locally at "Big 5" sales. Finding a "hex receiver" model dated 1923 made me catch the bug... holding something used by the red army in the early '20s. Anyway, I figured a couple of them could be car-trunk emergency items, or even to be cached with some ammo out in the brush as a super-SHTF situation prep, or loaned to a neighbor for local defense.

But one question, exactly how do you others do that essential, prompt cleaning after punching holes with the corrosive-primer loads? I picked up a couple jugs of standard ammonia from Wal-Mart figuring to use it... pouring a small quantity down the barrel after shooting with a small funnel , maybe wiping the bolt mechanism down, too, then doing normal gun-oil cleaning right away too. Is this a wrong approach or OK? Any specific tips on the process? Secondarily, will this standard liquid ammonia store OK longer-term split up into several canning (Mason/Ball) jars, labeled and set aside with prep ammo, etc?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Ammonia does OK, but if you're into reloading, keep it away from your brass.

Most all good solvents will remove corrosive residue,
The important thing is to just clean it after EVERY shooting session, and appy a good oil when done


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

That is the 1st time that I have ever heard of someone using ammonia to remove corrosive residue from the bore of a weapon, even after firing military-surplus corrosive ammunition!

I just shake my head, when I read or hear of folks that go shooting and do not clean their weapon(s) as soon as possible.. I would have a major guilt trip if I were to follow that policy of just putting it back on the rack without maintenance. It maybe due to my military training - a dirty weapon, is a bad weapon!!.

I always use Hoppes #9 solvent, for cleaning my weapons. I run several more than the amount of necessary patches saturated with bore cleaner down the barrel, then several dry patches, followed with oily patches when cleaning. Remove the bolt assembly and also fully clean it with solvent (using rags and an old toothbrush), before drying and oiling and reinstalling it back into the receiver.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

ammonia was a hold over from black power shooting . 
it is really not neccesary , soap and water , hoppes #9, breakfree firearms solvent(now used by the US armed forces), even chlorine free brake clean will work.

i have a CVA product called Barrel Blaster wonder gel it works well enough and does have some amonia component to it. many Black powder users are very carfull to avoid ammonia containing products , i have bought a product called Blue Thunder that is all natural no ammonia but havn't tried it yet.

now a major difference between black powder , black powder substitutes , and black powder cartrige shooting VS corrosive primed ammo is that we are trying to clean fouling , and large amounts of corosive residue from our barrels when we use BLACK

corrosive ammo shooters are keeping a small ammount of residue left over from the primers from causing pitting and throat errosion , i guess it isn't much different but there is much less of it.

I can't say any thing bad about hoppes #9 , it is a great all purpose solvent that does a good job of breaking down smokeless powder and it's residue 

the only complaints i hear about hoppes #9 is that it isn't great at removing lead or copper fouling , and that may be tru there are special products for that but if you were clearning your barrel after every shooting trip it most likely won't be nessacary any way i have seen a lot of barrels 30+years old they were cleaned exclisivly with the hoppes in the manner radio fish describes they still look perfect.

one thing to mention is when you clean a bolt gun remove the bolt and push the brush and patches thru from the breach end , why , it pushes the crud out the muzzel where it doesn't get into the action , locking lugs, bolt, magazine 
also then you can't hurt the crown , i see all sorts of adds for brass or alluminum rods that can't hurt the crown , or bore guides to keep the rod centered 
if you clean from the back that really isn't so nessacary.


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

Thanks, guys. I do have Hoppes #9 already so using ammonia in addition might be overkill, especially with only a little light target practice. Just that I'm pretty sure I saw that the Soviets issued ammonia in some form to their troops for use with these guns and ammo. Maybe enclosed in one of the two compartments of the weird little oil/cleaning solvent container that often gets included with a surplus package purchase of these rifles?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

radiofish said:


> That is the 1st time that I have ever heard of someone using ammonia to remove corrosive residue from the bore of a weapon, even after firing military-surplus corrosive ammunition!
> 
> I just shake my head, when I read or hear of folks that go shooting and do not clean their weapon(s) as soon as possible.. I would have a major guilt trip if I were to follow that policy of just putting it back on the rack without maintenance. It maybe due to my military training - a dirty weapon, is a bad weapon!!.


Sometimes I cheat and just swab out the barrel.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

That weird little 2 compartment liquid container is called an "oiler"... bore cleaner on one side, gun oil on the other..

For stubborn lead and copper build up, I use for the 1st pass the correct size brass brushes and bore cleaner attached to the end of my cleaning rod.

When buying a Mosin-Nagant rifle like the 1891-30, you should also get along with it the sling, one oiler, the leather ammo pouches (2 compartments), and a bayonet.

There are 5 round 'stripper clips' that are available for the Mosin-Nagant rifles also..

Here are my four Mosin-Nagant M-44 carbines with the slip on shotgun recoil pads.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> the only complaints i hear about hoppes #9 is that it isn't great at removing lead or copper fouling


Lead normally has to be scrubbed out with a brush but ammonia will help dissolve copper which is why it's hard on brass


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

You friggin' marines. You put a sling on EVERYTHING.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

radiofish said:


> Here are my four Mosin-Nagant M-44 carbines with the slip on shotgun recoil pads.


I've used those pads on several rifles. One old Greener Martini had a semi-crescent buttplate and was skinny enough that the recoil pad was pretty loose. On every shot, I could hear the pad make a whoopie cushion sound.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

Plainswalker said:


> I'd like to get a SHTF rifle and money is tight so I have been considering a Mosin Nagant. Many people have mentioned the recoil as a downside and I was wondering how bad it really is. I've looked at a couple tables online that calculated the recoil mathematically, but I would like some anecdotal evidence as well. My main reference point is my 870 20 ga. slug gun.
> 
> As a side note, I would probably buy this sporterized stock as well.
> 
> http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MGR341-1.html


Know people w/Mosins - they come w/a sturdy functional stock & are approx. like a 308 in power (cal. too), so kick about the same, or like a 303 Brit.
you just have to hold it tight to your shoulder, no problem.
They are known for accuracy too - the famous Finnish sniper (don't recall name) refused to use anything else.
As to how these compare to a 20 gauge, never used anything but a 12 ?


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Plainswalker said:


> I'd like to get a SHTF rifle and money is tight so I have been considering a Mosin Nagant. Many people have mentioned the recoil as a downside and I was wondering how bad it really is. I've looked at a couple tables online that calculated the recoil mathematically, but I would like some anecdotal evidence as well. My main reference point is my 870 20 ga. slug gun.
> 
> As a side note, I would probably buy this sporterized stock as well.
> 
> http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MGR341-1.html


If you get an M44 Mosin Nagant, think of it as a 30-30 size rifle firing a 30-06 round.. That is what the recoil is like... If not planted firmly on the shoulder it does hurt... I know from experience.. But if you can shot a 30-06 then you can shot the Mosin Nagant .. if need be remove the butt plate and add some weight in the bolt hole.. Make sure the weight is secured... That will help lessen any recoil..


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I can remember seeing them stuffed in 55 gallon barrels in DEPT STORES selling for $10-15 each, and no paperwork involved.


Already wish I would have bought more of them when they were about $70..
I also bought 880 rounds for $40 then, but can't even get close to that now...

I wish I would have bought more... but oh well I have started to get brass cases so I can reload for them...


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