# Which breed lgd?



## blaundee (Nov 3, 2012)

Which breed is best for staying at home and being quiet? I'd like a male & female pair to guard the sheep day and night, they will all be put up into a barn at night.

(ETA_ I should use my Lab, but he's our pet lol)


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Quiet? Not Great Pyranees then. Lol! I have Anatolian Shepherd Dogs and adore them. They are fairly quiet now that they are nearly mature. One of them was a bit barky as a juvenile though. They never, ever escape. I have good fences and a hot wire on top of most of them and they respect that. They are really good dogs.


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## blaundee (Nov 3, 2012)

I suppose I should mention that our sheep will be turned out into a large pasture during the daytime, and that is the main reason we want dogs with them. The fence will be hogwire to keep the sheep in (we have to take the barbed wire down and put hogwire up, that's one of our many spring projects), and we are not going to do electric or invisible fence. The dogs must stay in the pasture with the sheep, so I need to figure out which breed is most likely to do that- stay home, stay with the sheep at all times.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

All LGD breed have the inclination to wander. You have to remember that these breeds are genetically hardwired to wander over hundreds of acres patrolling for predators. It's not really their nature to stay confined to what WE establish as their pasture. I taught my dogs as young pups to respect the hot wire and now as adults, they do. But if that wire was not there, I am no so sure they would stay in so well. How big is your pasture and ow tall is the fence?


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## RedRidge (Jan 28, 2013)

Pyr tend to be more of a perimeter dog in our experience... 
We switched to Maremma and love them.
We have only field fencing 48" perimeter and 32" electronetting for cross fencing and they stay in without a problem... they "want" to stay with the sheep.
That said... they were raised with them from the beginning.

I'm curious why you would put them up at night if you have dogs to protect them? If I put mine up at night I wouldn't need anything but a house dog to deter...
My maremma sleep most of the day (in shifts, soundly)... and are up all night.
Night time is when heavy predation problems occur here - cougars, coyotes, etc.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

Your situation sounds similar to ours, and I chose Anatolians. Their coats don't require any maintenance and they don't bark as much as other breeds. I also prefer their coloring, which is a personal thing.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

My new Anatolian, Bryngyld in the Sun, or Sunni, as we call her,. She's about 16 weeks old, and here she is, guarding sheep several times her size. 

I've had Pyrs and Anatolians. Anatolians have ruined me for any other dog.


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## blaundee (Nov 3, 2012)

BarbadosSheep said:


> All LGD breed have the inclination to wander. You have to remember that these breeds are genetically hardwired to wander over hundreds of acres patrolling for predators. It's not really their nature to stay confined to what WE establish as their pasture. I taught my dogs as young pups to respect the hot wire and now as adults, they do. But if that wire was not there, I am no so sure they would stay in so well. How big is your pasture and ow tall is the fence?


I'm sorry I havent replied- been busy lol The pasture we first intend to put the sheep in is about 60 acres give or take, we'll have it fenced in 4' hogwire with one or two strands of barbed wire on top. (right now it's fenced in barbed wire, was a horse pasture but we've moved the horses.)


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## blaundee (Nov 3, 2012)

RedRidge said:


> Pyr tend to be more of a perimeter dog in our experience...
> We switched to Maremma and love them.
> We have only field fencing 48" perimeter and 32" electronetting for cross fencing and they stay in without a problem... they "want" to stay with the sheep.
> That said... they were raised with them from the beginning.
> ...


Because predation is bad enough in the daytime, and would be even worse at night. I imagine even with several dogs, we'd lose sheep if out at night. Plus we will be milking our sheep.


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## TriWinkle (Oct 2, 2011)

Dairy sheep?? Too cool!! I've herd (see what I did there...nevermind) of them, but never knew anyone who had them.


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## greatwhiteape (Dec 3, 2012)

Where are you from and what do you have in the way of animals that want to mess with sheep?

If the biggest thing you have to face is other dogs and yotes, like I do, then that opens up a whole world of great dogs to do guard duty.

If you have bears, wolves, or lions that is a different story. They require something else to tangle with them.

I had the opportunity to wrestle with a Boerboel the other day and there was more fight in that dog than there was in me LOL. I wouldn't have wanted to mess with him on any kind of serious level. If you have two of them I would say that you wouldn't even have to get out of bed if you hear the sheep fussing at night. 

The dog I was messin' with was about 175 pounds according to the owner. I could see two of them tearing a black bear to shreds. I had never felt power like that in a dog before.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

What pred do you have that would be getting past several dogs?


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Rock said:


> What pred do you have that would be getting past several dogs?


I know that around here, it's several dogs. 

And a caution to folks considering an LGD - make sure your fence will keep it in. Those electric collar fences inside your stock fence would be great.
Because your Pyr is there at last check and there at morning chores, does not mean he is there all the times between. A neighbor had their Pyr shot not too long ago, harassing someone else's livestock, because in their head, if they can walk on it, it is THEIR territory, and the creatures on it are intruders. Roaming Pyrs and a local pack of Pyr/chow mixes have been responsible for killing 3 cats, attacking my dog and 2 goat attacks, all on my own property. I am forever repairing holes under my fence where they dig in, barbed wire doesn't dissuade them and I am upgrading my charger - again - not that they can't just jump the 4 foot fence as if it wasn't there. Any healthy dog over 18 inches at the shoulder (and a few under it) can clear a 4 foot fence.

So around here, I'd need an LGD that can wipe out a pack of Great Pyrenees and/or their equally large crosses.
Or, any dog that barks when one comes on the property and my .22

Not that this would work for the OP, 60 acres is certainly enough to justify an LGD, just answering Rock's question about what predator type makes several dogs or extreme solutions necessary.


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## blaundee (Nov 3, 2012)

Otter said:


> I know that around here, it's several dogs.
> 
> And a caution to folks considering an LGD - make sure your fence will keep it in. Those electric collar fences inside your stock fence would be great.
> Because your Pyr is there at last check and there at morning chores, does not mean he is there all the times between. A neighbor had their Pyr shot not too long ago, harassing someone else's livestock, because in their head, if they can walk on it, it is THEIR territory, and the creatures on it are intruders. Roaming Pyrs and a local pack of Pyr/chow mixes have been responsible for killing 3 cats, attacking my dog and 2 goat attacks, all on my own property. I am forever repairing holes under my fence where they dig in, barbed wire doesn't dissuade them and I am upgrading my charger - again - not that they can't just jump the 4 foot fence as if it wasn't there. Any healthy dog over 18 inches at the shoulder (and a few under it) can clear a 4 foot fence.
> ...


I'm in NM. We mainly have coyotes, bears, and lions. The sheep will always be up in their fold at night, very tall, very strong pipe and bull panels meant for keeping a dairy cow who liked to jump, and it's unlikely a lion would jump in there, but theres really no way to keep a hungry bear out if that's what they want to do, so some dogs to fight them off would be ideal. I've seen lions, bears, and LOTS of coyotes on this ranch, near the house, right out my back door even, all in broad daylight. Last fall a pack of large dogs went around and terribly injured a neighbors llamas and horses (full sized horses, mind you) and killed a doe deer near my house.... I imagine it would have taken at least a couple of dogs to fight them off and not lose any sheep or dogs to them. Oh, and thanks to the "reintroduction" program, there have been wolf sightings around here, but I haven't seen any myself. My dad saw one about 10 miles from here, and a few other people have seen them, but they are solitary, not in packs- thankfully.

Ugh. Predators. 

I dont know if yall read my post about my chocolate lab on the other thread, but he is a wonderful poultry guardian, and would love the chance to be a good sheep guard (he loves the sheep and being around them)- but there's only one of him, he's not 150lbs, and he's a pet that lives in the house lol Since we've trained him to guard the poultry, I feel that we would be able to train a LGD just as well (plus Ive been reading and listening- now if only I could find the right dogs).


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## blaundee (Nov 3, 2012)

Oh, here's a question- for instance, if I had 2 females and one male, would the male bond with both of the females, or are they like wolves and bond with one female?


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Blaundlee, I can't say about pack bonding, but I know from experience, the best guard dogs for any situation are spayed females. Males, even if you neuter them - if there's a female in heat, their mind is on that. Males roam more as well. 
In a situation where you have a pair, the male will patrol and the female will stand guard.
Females are more territorial and less tolerant of other dogs. So especially if you have roaming packs of dogs, females are better.


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## Gritty (Nov 26, 2012)

What about a guard llama? Ours is excellent at letting us know something's not right (she still hasn't figured out that vultures aren't an issue). She has herded the sheep for us when they've gotten out (we have one that thinks she's a goat). I don't think she'd be the final answer if we had packs of dogs and lions roaming around, but I think her and a Lgd might be a good team. I know it really depends on the individual though. I know a sheep farm that has a huge, mean looking llama. He is a perimeter guard. Our llama gets mad at the ewes if she feels they're not attentive enough to their lambs and will gently steer the momma to her baby. Our pet dogs we've had for years do a pretty good job of barking away would be predators. They're both large breeds---don't trust 'em with the sheep or chickens. One wants to play with them. The other wants to eat them---funny thing is...she's badly allergic to lamb. The slightest bit gives her massive digestive problems.


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## TriWinkle (Oct 2, 2011)

I keep telling y'all once upon a time I used to have a Web site bookmarked, before my old comp died, that discussed the different breeds of LGD and their features and guarding styles.

Some stayed closed to home and some roamed the place, some barked a lot other barked only when necessary...it also mentioned their size and all that other jazz...if only I could find it again!!! Arrrrrgh!


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I can tell you what I'm leaning toward at this time. 

I have a 6-acre, fenced homestead where a small herd of dairy goats and about 30 various types of fowl roam freely. We have not had large predators here; but we have had to cope with foxes, badgers, ***** and an occasional stray neighboring dog. Our other female dog..part anatolian, chow & lab..did a great job intimidating the stray dogs; but the others pests still show up. Also, I want a dog that will not only bond with the goats & protect the fowl but will, also, protect me from any 2-legged animal that may show up. 

I want a dog that thinks for herself just in case I cannot deal with the situation quick enough. (I also live where the summers are hot and humid; so the dog I wind up with be one that will not suffer too much in this.) Thus, I'm leaning toward an Anatolian and/or Kangal and/or some mix...maybe with a Boz or Maremma...still thinking on those.


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