# Goat Worming question



## 247haha (Dec 12, 2012)

I am pretty new to dealing with goats (about 8 months). I have 4, all of them are different breeds. I noticed my wether has got a case of worms (very visible when he poops). I've read that it's pretty normal for them to have them. But visibly seeing them I'm thinking is not good. I bought some DuMor Goat Dewormer from TSC a while back. I'm assuming I need to treat all 4 of my goats? Anyone have experience with this dewormer. It seems like I dose them by weight and it's only 1 dose? 

Do I need to clean out the fence area where they stay (hay etc.) after a few days once they've pooped out the 

I'd appreciate any helpful advise. 

Thanks

:help:


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Okay, although it will help if we know where you are (different wormers have different effectiveness in different areas. For example, Eprinectin still works well in my area, Cydectin, not so much, the parasites have built up a resistance.), I can still tell you a few things about Dumor:

1. It is a pelleted dewormer, and supposedly you just need to set it out, and your goats will eat it.

2. Your goats will NOT eat enough of it to do anything about the worms except give the worms a good resistance to it, if they even touch it at all.

3. Because of #2, DuMor *does not work* in any area that I know of in the U.S.

4. Worms are, too, a VERY big deal in goats. Worm overload will *kill* them.


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## Frosted Mini's (Nov 29, 2012)

If you have a clean pen for them to go in, yes, that would probably be helpful. Maybe you could just clean the area up day of worming-if you have a separate pen, that they can go poop the worms and eggs out, then go back to their clean regular pen, that's probably even better. In reality, most people don't do all that, but it is ideal.

If you are seeing worms, they are likely tapeworms-that particular worm is visible with the naked eye (and doesn't necessarily mean they have a huge worm burden). Tapes actually aren't all that bad for them as far as health and nutrition are concerned-they are worse for us to look at than the goats to have.  The only other worm I know that is visible without a m'scope is pinworms, and my goats seem to keep re-infecting themselves with the little b******s. Also not a huge concern for the goat-and I don't see them in the poop, but rather on the anus of the goat-they are very small, threadlike wormies.


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## Frosted Mini's (Nov 29, 2012)

In other words, I would be more concerned with what worms are inside the goat that you can't see, than those tapes. 

Oh, and don't know what the Dumor is, but probably won't work.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

~smiles~ FM, DuMor Pellet Wormer (as sold at TSC) is Morantel Tartrate, mixed with wheat middlings and some other stuff. It has been used so much as a goat dewormer for so long (as it is one of the few labeled ONLY for goats, so every new goat owner gets the stuff) that it pretty much won't kill anything nowadays.

They DO have dosage instructions on the label, 1/2 scoop per 25lbs of body weight, but that hasn't changed in the decade or so the stuff has been on the market.


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## Frosted Mini's (Nov 29, 2012)

Oh, I have seen a Morantel dewormer, but the one around here is called "positive pellet". We don't have TSC's around here, but there are other stores similar.

Yeah, you'd probably have much better results chucking the bag at the goats to scare the worms out of them.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

What I have found on the stuff:

Brand Name:	Rumatel
Active Ingredient(s):	morantel tartrate
Availability:	OTC
Withdrawal:	30 days before slaughter
Indications:	Control of internal parasites
Dosage:	Use to medicate feed at the rate of 0.44 grams per 100lbs.
Goat Notes:	Mix crumbles in feed at the rate of 25 lbs. per ton. Use this as supplemental parasite control; continue worming with other products as needed. Worm goats thoroughly before starting on medicated feed.

*********************************************

Basically, you need to use a real dewormer BEFORE you even start this stuff.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

Here is a good link to the different wormers & their dosages.
http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=1vj6rtuk688lvdj5d8fjb5ass1&topic=8934.0

I would treat for tapeworms & also get some Quest paste & treat them with that also. Quest will be sold in the equine section at most farm stores.
Good luck & Welcome to the goat forum.

I agree the pelleted goat wormer you bought won't do a thing for your goats. When we 1st got goats I did the same thing & bought the same stuff. I didn't even know this forum existed & just went to the store & bought that with out any ideas at all. I soon put that in the trash.


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## 247haha (Dec 12, 2012)

Grrr that is very irritating they sell that stuff still, but they got their $15 or however much it was from me :grumble:

I live in Central California (Visalia). I saw the worms hanging out of his anus, they were very long but seemed to go back up inside of him. (yuck, did I just say that lol) 

Thanks so much for a quick response from everyone. I will look at the link Backfourty, MI! I understand what I purchased is not going to work, but hopefully the link we put me in the right direction. 

Thank You!


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

For Central California, what you want to get s Cydectin, either the injectable, or the pour-on variety. It is still VERY effective in your area.

Dosage is 3 times the label instruction by weight (If it says give 1ml per 50 pounds, give 3 ml per 50 lbs) given ORALLY. Yes, it will say to inject it or pour it on their back, *do not do that*. ALL wormers are given to goats ORALLY. So draw it up in a syringe and squirt it in their mouth. 

Repeat the treatment in 10 days. Then you are done.


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## Shayanna (Aug 1, 2012)

Why do you guys always say the goats won't get enough of the pelleted wormer? Mine eat it up like its the tastiest thing.


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## momagoat61 (Mar 30, 2008)

Mine also would eat it, when I did use it I would feed one pound per goat and always fed them seperated with each one eating their own share. I didn't have to mix it with anything like a sweet feed or anything. I didn't have any luck with it as a wormer but they would eat it. That was years ago, I now use quest and or Prohibit/Levasole. Prohibit is the best wormer for BarberPole Worms on the market and I see great results when using it.


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## 247haha (Dec 12, 2012)

So would you recommend all 4 goats get the treatment or just the whether? I would think all 4, but I'd like your opinion. Also, I really don't know the weights on them. My whether is a Boer and he's much bigger than my 3 girls (x1 nigerian dwarf, x1 la mancha, x1 nubian mix)


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

Yes, for sure do all 4 of your goats at this point.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

Shayanna said:


> Why do you guys always say the goats won't get enough of the pelleted wormer? Mine eat it up like its the tastiest thing.


Your goats are eating it but worms are resistant to the chemical in those pellets. How & why the companies can still sell it is beyond me. I guess for all the new folks that don't know & just buy it because it says for goats & worms.

Have you ever had a fecal done on your goats? I would almost guarantee the pelleted wormer is just wasting your money. 
You'd be much farther ahead to get Quest paste or Cydectin pour on & give it orally.
For tapes I would use Valbazen or you have to do a whole lot of Safeguard for tapes.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

247haha said:


> So would you recommend all 4 goats get the treatment or just the whether? I would think all 4, but I'd like your opinion. Also, I really don't know the weights on them. My whether is a Boer and he's much bigger than my 3 girls (x1 nigerian dwarf, x1 la mancha, x1 nubian mix)


Get a goat weight tape. Available from many places - jefferslivestock.com is one. (Much cheaper than TSC, and free shipping over 49.00... which I always manage to go over...  )

For such a small herd, Quest horse gel is probably the way to go for your herd because it's cheaper than buying a huge bottle of injectible or pour-on. It's a horse dewormer, SAME drug as in cydectin. Dose for the horse dewormer with goats is 1cc per 100lbs (4x as strong as the pour-on, which is dosed at 1cc per 22lbs). 

Something to get tapeworms such as safeguard (3-4X label dose for 5 days in a row) or a horse dewormer with praziquantel will probably work. I believe the link already posted talks about Zimectrin Gold dewormer for goats? I'd use that. Looks like 1cc per 50lbs.


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## trnubian (Mar 19, 2005)

There is also Quest Plus which has the same active ingredient as Cydectin and it also has Praziquantrel which kills taps as well. I use it on my kids and once a year on adults for tapes and barber pole worms... It is the same dose as regular Quest. 1 cc per 100 pounds given orally.


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## 247haha (Dec 12, 2012)

ok so i went out and bought a syringe each of:

Zimecterin Gold: the syringe is enough to medicate a 1150 lb horse 
*but I see 1cc/50 lbs (from previous poster "mygoat")

Quest Gel: the syringe is enough to medicate a 1250 lb horse.
*1cc/100 lbs (per poster "mygoat")

Do I use a child size syringe? I went to TSC and they were out of syringes. Also still need to buy a goat weight tape  

I haven't done a fecal on them. Do you take them to the vet for that?

Thanks so much! Sorry I'm learning as I go.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

You take the goat pellets to the vet for fecal testing, not the whole goat. 

Yes, this means you are following the goat around with a plastic zip lock bag waiting for FRESH poop to fall. About ten berries per goat is more than adequate. I use a separate bag for each goat (labeled), so I know who has what from the tests. You may want to find out what your vet charges per test first.

Use the tube that the dewormer is in. No need to transfer to another tube/syringe. Just set the knurled ring for the proper amount.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

Have any of you tried oil of oregano? It is all I have used so far, and my goats have no signs of worms. In fact all but one looks healthier then when I got it and the last is equally healthy as when I got her. 

Works on people for parasite issues as well. Very strong actually. It works when parasites issues already have taken over in people atleast. That I can attest to from actual experience of myself and those I know including fecals to prove it. 

Next summer I will be growing a range of plants and seeds with the same attributes additionally. Make them all a part of their daily diets. Perhaps I will learn the hard way but Im highly doubting I will have worm issues doing this. 

I dont mean to make waves with the post, Im just curious if others use herbals means.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

I don't use oil of oregano but I do use herbal wormers. It does depend on where you live though as if I lived in the south like Texas and FL I would or use them. Here the parasites die off during the winter. I also used chemical wormers on them when I first got them so they were clean when we started using herbal. I have had fecals done and the vet said keep up what your doing because it's working.i use Molly's Herbals.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Some folks DO use herbal wormers. They are great for keeping worm loads low in maintenance, but they are next to useless as a treatment for an already high load.

~grinz~ One of the best all-natural, herbal wormers around these parts are the ubiquitous Texas Cedar. My goats LOVE that stuff. Because I have plenty of it (it is actually more common here than mesquite), I only have to use a chemical wormer once or twice a year. Other folks who live in my area, but who dry-lot, or have cleared out the cedar in their pastures, have to use chemical wormers 4-6 times a year.

Herbal or natural wormers have their place in a good management system. However, if a situation arises where you need the big guns, do NOT hesitate to use a chemical wormer.

Remember, parasites can kill.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

CaliannG said:


> Some folks DO use herbal wormers. They are great for keeping worm loads low in maintenance, but they are next to useless as a treatment for an already high load.


I cant speak from knowledge about goats specifically but I can say with assurance oil of oregano can take a humans on their death bed from parasites literally (a family friend) right back to work the next day when everything in the hospital FAILED. 

It was a parasite from raw shellfish. Most humans have parasites at some level actually. My mom back in ohio used to work at a kennel and she was big on oil of oregano and did fecals on her dogs. did it for people as well eventually. Oil of oregano worked on every person who needed treated including several who were having rather severe issues. 

Like I said, I have no proof this transfers to goats but I cant see why it wouldnt. the way the kennel women heard of it was from local amish who used it on livestock. 

Im not sure I would use mollys blend mentioned above though. wormwood can be kinda dangerous. Many others are as effective or more so without the potential danger.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

silverseeds, are you speaking of a person cured of shellfish parasites (tranferable to humans) Cryptosporidium, or Giardia?


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

I can ask my mom if she knows the name of it. (its her friend and she was the one who basically forced it on him as he was on his deathbed, his wife eventually gave it to him just to shut my mom up, then of course it cured him like I said) All I know myself was that it was from raw seafood. I will get back to you eventually as I remember to ask her if she knows the name. 

I know of others who used it when they had deep parasite issues. but none of the other cases were that extreme. 

Perhaps it doesnt work on everything or goats (although mine seem great thus far- Ive studied the signs to look for and based on that mine are great, I didnt for the record do actual fecals though) but it definitely works well with some. 

No one mis read me, I WOULD use meds if other means failed. although Id probably replace the goat soon afterwards, I hope to select for hardiness in my herd. 

My plan is to have 4-6 similar herbs and squash seed in their diets daily. I will let you all know how it goes as I do it. In atleast some cases though oil of oregano CAN work on severe cases. Well in people anyway. 

Im also contemplating reversing my stance. I dont test for disease myself but only buy tested animals now. Im thinking of going back to some of the herds Ive seen with somewhat poor management and selecting out the animals that excel DESPITE that. secluding them and testing them before they go with the rest of the herd of course, but its on my mind. I want a hardy low maintenance herd. Even if i need more work and time to get to it. Perhaps silly I know, but its how I roll. lol...


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

ss, I hit the scientific sites at your post. 

Oregano contains thymol and carvacrol, both of which have been shown in studies to have anthelmintic properties. There is work being done to synthesize them for use in the next generation of commercial wormers.

From reading the studies, however, I must make you aware: _ Parasites develop resistance to thymol and carvacrol after extended use just like they do to other natural or chemical anthelmintics._

In other words, the more and longer you use it, the less effective it is going to be against he parasites that you have on your property. Do not become dependent upon only that one natural dewormer, or think of it as a parasite panacea.

I asked about those two parasitic infection that might have been the cause of your Mom's friend's ailment because, when it comes to raw shellfish, the ONLY parasites they have that are capable of infecting humans are the ones that originated with humans that WE gave THEM by dumping our wastewater into rivers, lakes, and oceans. In other words, those parasites have always infected humans, have known treatments, or are often untreated because they go away on their own. The two I specifically mentioned, though, CAN cause severe illness in children, the elderly, or those with immune-compromised systems, although they will not kill an healthy adult. Those two are the worst of the bunch, though. If your mother's friend recieved the Oil of Oregano while still in the hospital, just to shut your mother up, and her friend was fine the next day, there is still nothing to say that it was the Oil of Oregano that did the trick, the MOUNDS of antiobiotics that the hospital would have been pumping into him if their tests had shown he had either of those parasites, or some combination of both of these things.

My husband got Giardia, the more nasty of those two infections. He tossed out the pills Doc gave him, did absolutely nothing different, felt like crap for a couple of weeks, and then one day woke up feeling fine and was fine then on out.

My husband drinks TONS of coffee. 3 or 4 pots a day. Maybe the Giardia couldn't stand having the caffiebe jitters and therefore abandoned ship? Or maybe the infection generally just lasts a couple weeks before a normally healthy body will kick its butt?

I hate to sound so skeptical; but I also really dislike it when new folks read stuff like this, take it at face value, go an give their very sick, weak, or parasite overloaded animal ONLY "The Great, Herbal, Parasite Panacea" touted by a person as gauranteed to raise the dead, only to end up with a dead animal because they should have shoved 3cc of Cydectin down the critter.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

CaliannG said:


> If your mother's friend recieved the Oil of Oregano while still in the hospital, just to shut your mother up, and her friend was fine the next day, there is still nothing to say that it was the Oil of Oregano that did the trick, the MOUNDS of antiobiotics that the hospital would have been pumping into him if their tests had shown he had either of those parasites, or some combination of both of these things.


Must have been something else if these are treatable. Or perhaps his case was to far gone, they didnt even TRY to treat him. Simply dull the pain as he died. Hes pretty wealthy and was at a good hospital as well for the record. the hospital told him he had 5-7 days to live. he couldnt take food or liquids. As I said though I know others who used it with issues, just not on their deathbeds. I wouldnt make this up, I have no skin in the game. Was just curious if others used it. I use such means for my own families health as well. So its my path for the goats until everything else fails. 

I will keep oil of oregano on the back burner after what you said, since its pretty strong and i dont want to mess with its effectiveness. Id better get something else to use until I can grow the range I intend to use. 

might as well throw this out there also. I know how to make a decent quality colloidal silver. If all else failed I would try this before using meds. controversial, but Ive seen this effective in people as well. It was used as a antibiotic before modern anti biotics. nothing known to date builds a tolerance to it. Drug companies lobby to get it deemed a pesticide by the way. Likely cant stand the competition as the net gave silver a small bit of traction among a few.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Collodial silver was, an is still, used as an EXTERNAL antibiotic, and works decently at that application.

It looses all effectiveness when taken internally, but can cause serious side effects if too much is taken internally. No matter what all the sites selling the stuff, the means to make the stuff, or the people who have bought into the stuff, say.

CS [has no effectiveness in internal applications.[/I] Although, again, works great for external. My grandmother used it to so soak bandages to apply to external wounds, even after the common availability of triple antibiotic ointment.

My Great Aunt believed, however, that it didn't work as well as a good chickory and comfry salve.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

Just wanted to let you know that Molly's has 2 formulas. Only one has wormwood. My does don't get wormwoodswhile they are pregnant.

I do urge you and anyone else to do fecals before AND after to know if the herbals are working. I think we can (and should) be natural in our management and still use a scientific method. I always keep Quest and Ivermectin on hand for the just in case. I would NOT hesitate to use a chemical wormer at anytime if the need arises, my girls are far too valuable to me emotionally to risk it. Not to mention I would never get over it if I killed one of my girls out of my negligence.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

"but can cause serious side effects if too much is taken internally." 
Exactly! Just ask the blue guy who lives here in Bellingham. He is permanently blue because of the CS he took.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

KrisD said:


> "but can cause serious side effects if too much is taken internally."
> Exactly! Just ask the blue guy who lives here in Bellingham. He is permanently blue because of the CS he took.


He made it entirely wrong and used multiples more then needed in a manner that isnt needed for any condition its useful for. I definitely disagree with callian on this. I will leave it at that. Its hard to dig through the claims and rhetoric on the topic but the sound data is there if you look deep enough.


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## JoannaCW (Nov 29, 2008)

I've used Hoegger's herbal wormer (which contains wormwood) for the past 9 years; I used to alternate it with febendozole paste until I was convinced that the febendozole wasn't effective. I've given the wormer to pregnant goats and not had bad results. I don't do regular fecals but I do observe that the does have good deep-pink eyelids, vigourous appetites, plenty of energy, decent production, and diarrhea only rarely and generally in response to an obvious feed issue, so I infer that they aren't carrying dangerous worm loads. I want to do more with squash seeds, oregano etc. next year.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

The OP has obvious worm that he can see in his goats poop or around their anus so they obviously need a wormer that will take care of things. They are very new to goats & looking for advice on how to get rid of them & what to do. They should use the chemicals wormers talked about already & good advice has been given.

I'm not saying that herbal wormers don't work although I don't use them myself but this thread is not about herbal wormers or if they work.
I know I have read threads here where some folks have really good luck with them but Fecals should be done before & after using them to make sure the problem is taken care of. Also winter is not a good time for fecals as you won't get a good fecal count.
Just saying the debate for herbal or Not should be on a different thread & not here to add more confusion to a newbie in need of our help.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

I waited until the topic was covered thoroughly before asking if people used an herb that really should be effective at heavy worm loads. Literally so I could see if it held as true in goats as it does humans, as well as sharing the name of one Ive been using on my goats with apparent success thus far. Always good to have additional items in the war chest. I CAN get oil of oregano locally. I cant however get anything for goats without driving about 95 miles to a vet that handles goats,( I assume there would be a vet that handles goats there anyway its a bigcity) or other means I HAVE to do in advance. So I can also see times this just might help someone who doesnt have another option at a specific time. Lots of us are very rural, with inadequate local options.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

I do agree SS. We need many things in our medicine chest. I will be anxious to try oil of Oregeno if I can find a supplier for it. Parasites are becoming more and more resistant to the chemical wormers on the market as the years go by. We need GOOD alternatives, and these are things that WE need to test since the chemical companies sure won't be.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugex...34169,d.b2U&fp=93a0003da4073894&bpcl=40096503


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

I knew you'd come through Alice.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

silverseeds said:


> I cant however get anything for goats without driving about 95 miles to a vet that handles goats,( I assume there would be a vet that handles goats there anyway its a bigcity) or other means I HAVE to do in advance. So I can also see times this just might help someone who doesnt have another option at a specific time. Lots of us are very rural, with inadequate local options.


~smiles~ Anything OTC (such as Ivermectin, Cydectin, Quest Plus, whatever) is available online, even with one day shipping.

MOST of the stuff we use is available OTC at a feed store. MOST of the stuff we use is labeled for use in cattle...so if there are enough cattle ranches around, there is a local supply of these medications.

Wormers, antibiotics, antitoxins, SHOULD be gotten in advance. They SHOULD be a part of the war chest.

If, however, it were me (as I live rural), and it was a Saturday when the vets are closed, and I needed something NOW, I gaurantee I would be able to find a chemical wormer, or an antibiotic, far easier than I would be able to find Oil of Oregano or CS. The only health food store within 100 miles that might carry those things is closed on the weekend, but the feed store is open. My neighbors are also FAR more likely to have a spare tube of paste wormer or pour-on Cydectin than they would an herbal or CS.

But, the truth is, we try not to discuss controversial management techniques, un-proven medications, alternative remedies, ect., in a newbie thread that has the equivalent of "I've got a sick goat". It's easy to start a new thread that says "Hey! Anyone doing such and so?" instead of giving a new person who already has a Situation conflicting and confusing debate.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

I dont manage my own health with similar things, unless there are NO options. Certainly wont manage my animals health with such things until there are NO options. I did however ask my local feedstore if they had them. I had a list printed out. she stopped me before I finished reading it. she sells none of it. LOTS of cattle ranching here, but they use none of this either. they are totally freerange, make it or break it. Trust me on that, Ive known several of the local ranchers. 

there used to be another feedstore in town until semi recently (4 years or so) they might have carried such things I couldnt say. No doubt those who want them get them in the larger cities as anyone here must do with about anything. 

that said my local pharmacy DOES carry oil of oregano and many other herbs. Besides I always have it in my cupboard anyway. I wouldnt buy CS if I decided to use it in a last ditch effort. Id make it for pennies on the dollar and of superior quality to most you can buy. 

Why shouldnt newbies (and I AM a newbie myself-figure I should carry that label ATLEAST until I have my first kidding) consider alternative means? weigh the "unproven" versus more mainstream options. Life has many options. Most will of course gravitate to the more mainstream stuff, for understandable reasons. I honestly will just stop posting here if talking about alternatives is only acceptable in quarantined threads.

I purposely waited until the topic was covered I will again point out. Answers already given and accepted.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

~sighs~ Worms in such a heavy load that they are exiting the rectum are a *serious* issue, and can be life-threatening. New people often don't know much about how mainstream drugs interact, much less have the knowledge to weigh the alternatives.

Tell me thymol and carvacol, the active ingredients in O-of-O, work as a anthelmetic? How do they kill the parasites? DO they actually KILL the parasites, or do they disrupt reproduction and pupating stages? Tell me the same things about CS, the how and why?

I can tell you that the Macrolides (things ending in "ectin") kill all stages of strongyls by inhibiting protein synthesis. I can tell you that it disrupts pupation and reproduction of fleas, lice and mites through the same mechanism.

I can tell you that the Nicotinics are derived from Nicotine (Morantel, Levamisole,etc.) and that they work by binding to cell receptors and causing paralysis in all stages that HAVE receptors of these types. "Resistance is built when organisms lacking nAChRs are artificially selected for due to the use of the drug.

At any rate...alternative methods are fine....but the time to be introduced to them is NOT when a person who is unfamiliar with even the mainstream stuff is experiencing a Situation. That is why such things are called "alternative".

~sighs~ Maybe I am just wasting my typing fingers here. You claim to be a "newbie", but you find it okay to tell other newbies they should try Alternatives for health situations that you, yourself, have yet to experience with goats, and then when it is suggested that perhaps such things belong in another thread, twist it about then threaten a "I'll just take my ball and go home". 

ss, when people come here and post "My goat is sick", THEY don't know you are a newbie. Therefore, how will you feel when that newbie takes your advice, and a beloved goat who has a MUCH higher load than a natural can treat, dies of it? When that goat could have been saved with a "mainstream" treatment easily and affordably?

Understand PEOPLE. There is a reason that when folks come here with problems, we offer "mainstream" treatments....it is because there is plenty of time to learn all of the alternatives when an animal's life doesn't hang in the balance. PEOPLE, when they are worried about a sick animal, do not always think clearly, and will often not differentiate who said what, even with disclaimers...they will only remember "They said to try this", and not always in the order of what was suggested or by whom.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

CaliannG said:


> At any rate...alternative methods are fine....but the time to be introduced to them is NOT when a person who is unfamiliar with even the mainstream stuff is experiencing a Situation. That is why such things are called "alternative".


Id argue in many cases such things are alternative because there is little money in studying them... thats another story though...


> You claim to be a "newbie", but you find it okay to tell other newbies they should try Alternatives for health situations that you, yourself, have yet to experience with goats, and then when it is suggested that perhaps such things belong in another thread, twist it about then threaten a "I'll just take my ball and go home".


I absolutely did NOT tell anyone they should use a thing. I ASKED if others have success with something, that I know has success in humans with atleast some sever parasite issues. why start a new thread to ask if people have experience with something directly related to THIS thread? the OP already got and accepted the answers given before i asked about an alternative. 

Also never said that Id take my ball and go home. come on now! but if I annoy so many member from asking questions, especially when it includes you, who has shown me the most kindness, there isnt much point in me being here. Last several threads I started had almost no replies. Maybe its since im male, or my posting style or management style or a fluke. I couldnt say. 

there have been forums in the past Im told I take things off topic for similar reasons. I dont see it that way. So Id likely end up doing something similar when i thought of a question after reading the replies in some future thread. I have no desire to ruffle feathers so again no point in being here since by my nature i apparently do ruffle feathers. 



> ss, when people come here and post "My goat is sick", THEY don't know you are a newbie. Therefore, how will you feel when that newbie takes your advice, and a beloved goat who has a MUCH higher load than a natural can treat, dies of it? When that goat could have been saved with a "mainstream" treatment easily and affordably?


Since I never actually gave advise I wouldnt feel responsible. I ASKED if people had success with something. I also pointed out I have no idea if it works with goats, beyond not yet having signs of parasite issues in my own. i expressed atleast in people with some types of severe parasite issues it IS effective. Which doesnt hold true with most alternatives that help with parasites, which is exactly why I wanted to know if anyone had experience with it. Possibly being one of the few alternatives that has a chance of working on severe cases. which is WHY I ASKED if anyone knows if it works on goats. By the way I mentioned only one of several humans I know personally who had bad parasite issues it helped with. 

where I live worm issues are less anyway. Its the high desert. so the fact my goats have not had issues yet, doesnt conclusively tell me anything. I verified others used it in livestock, but thats about all i verified in the time I spent looking into its usage. Even if very effective on specific parasites I have no idea if it covers the full range. which again is why i asked if anyone had experience with it. 

You all have a good time. apparently I dont color in the lines well enough. nothing new. it is what it is.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I had no idea you were male.  Silverseeds sounds elvish and female to me. Hey, what do I know?

Sounds like you've had trouble in the past, going on boards and trying to change the status quo to your method of discussion. This is based on what you said above. 

I hope you have wonderful success with your goats.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

I agree with Silverseeds you were simply asking questions.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I had no idea you were male.  Silverseeds sounds elvish and female to me. Hey, what do I know?


Who says there arent male elves? 



> Sounds like you've had trouble in the past, going on boards and trying to change the status quo to your method of discussion. This is based on what you said above.
> 
> I hope you have wonderful success with your goats.


Goats are happy and healthy so far anyway! thanks. 

I never tried to change the status quo to my method of discussion. But I have indeed run into this same issue all over this forum and others. Im completely baffled how anyone could think I advised anyone or was somehow off topic or wrong to post my question in this thread. thus Id simply continue to offend when I have no intention of doing so. Several of you have helped me greatly with issues I had trouble finding info on, or didnt have the time. 

I got a few PMs about this. For the record, no particular person drove me away. thought Id say this here instead of PMs since others might have agreed with the PMs I got but didnt send me a PM on it. 

Im not leaving upset. I like many folks on many sections of this forum. This section was the last I still read daily. I just find it a bit anal. which annoys me. No need for me to be annoyed, internet is a big place. best I find a place that on topic thoughts or questions arent called off topic because of what I find arbitrary reasons. 

Besides, my REAL goal for being on this foru is general is my personal work. Im a plant breeder and you might call it a cropping systems designer or terraformer. Permaculture but I cant use that word really its patented, and I have no intention of going to pay for the classes when I know much more then atleast anyone Ive personally found in the field, and include more variables in my work. 

In a few YEARS I will need a solid place to share my work. (when it has matured and is more impressive etc) I thought this might be the place, but its just slightly off. So time to look for greener pasture. Ive tried about every permaculture forum out there already. Didnt find a fit there yet either. I will find something eventually though. Or if not, maybe just go the youtube route instead. Walk people through what Im doing etc. Like I said I include lots of variables ignored in the field that are truly game changers and greatly maximize the potentials of water usage specifically. (high desert) 

I appreciate many on this forum, you goat folks the most. Heck callian has taken her time and talked to me on the phone when I thought I had an issue to complicated for the forum. I was wrong it was an easy one apparently but I wasnt finding info searching. I just need to spend what time I have for forums looking for a place that will be the most fertile home for what I happen to be working on. do my part in advancing a field I feel will greatly change agriculture and for that matter homesteading into the future. Some things Im doing are for commercial models, (non irrigated on land considered non arable, that is cheap with low taxes) others only practical at the homestead level. I hope that makes sense and there is no hard feelings. 

Just to be clear, im not mad or being chased away, I just see now this isnt the place to disseminate what im working on and need to manage my time appropriately. doubtful, but who knows if I have a goat issue I cant solve perhaps I will be back. 

If anyone wants a contact it is [email protected] I get tons of spam as it is so dont mind posting it. LOL


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I & am sure no one else intended to upset you or make you feel like you needed to find a new forum. It takes all kinds of folks to make our goat forum the great place that it is.

All I was trying to say that is the OP is fairly new to goats & having obvious worm problems because they can see them coming out of the goats so Herbal wormers are not the thing they need right now. 

Herbal wormers are disscussed here quite often & I'm not saying anything's wrong with them. Everyone needs to find what works for them & as long as their goats thrive that's great. BUT in the OP's case herbal wormers aren't going to take care of the worm burden that is already so bad.

For any new folks out there if you decide to try herbal wormers PLEASE do fecals before & after using them.


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## FunnyRiverFarm (May 25, 2010)

Equimax horse paste dewormer works really well for getting rid of tapeworms. I've used it at 3x the horse dose by weight with excellent results. I think most farm supply stores sell it.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

Backfourty said:


> I & am sure no one else intended to upset you or make you feel like you needed to find a new forum. It takes all kinds of folks to make our goat forum the great place that it is.


Really my decision has little to do with you guys. I only signed back on to say this and send a PM to someone. 

This remains my favorite section here. Just need to spend my time on a forum that will be better suited for my work. I dont like being on lots of forums at a time because Im a bit compulsive and read most everything posted many days. 

As to the rest you said, oil of oregano "MIGHT" work at high worm loads. Ive seen it do so in humans with several different issues on person having been on their deathbeds. I said this already, but this is why I asked if others had sucess with it in goats, to know if I DO have something that can work effectively at true problem parasite loads or just another buffer as most herbal wormers are. Only bother to reiterate this so the thought is out there. As everyone who really digs into goat info knows there are lots of holes in our knowledge. this is a possible avenue of study or testing for someone. Actually I can think of several other herbs that would likely be effective as well, but those can be dangerous being items that can be overdosed on. because of the varying quality among cultivars and growing conditions... Imo the variance among SOMe herbs from location to cultivar and the lack of deep studies of many of them is the real reason the pharms are desirable. there is less money in studying those or bothering to synthsize them into something you can be assured is an exxact dosage. With oil of oregano, overdosing wouldnt be an issue which is why I named that and not the others. Im not brave enough to mess with the others even myself. 

I DO really appreciate the help I got here! several of you made my goat experience much easier. Im close to a level I have a good enough grasp I will do okay from here I think anyway... Would have been MUCH harder to get here without you guys!


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