# Fence requirements for an Anatolian



## DaisyDuke (Nov 21, 2017)

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this because my Anatolian Great Pyrenees mix is not a livestock guard dog. He is a house pet and goes for hikes and walks on leash. While I've had him I have not lived anywhere that I can fence. We are moving to an old farm that was subdivided and had businesses built up around it. The house is on only two acres, I plan on fencing about three quarters of an acre, for goats but have heard they only need four feet of field fence. I will only have a couple of goats which will be locked up at night so I don't think I need a LGD, but my pet dogs will likely come hang out with the goats when I'm in the pen with them. I am positive my dog could easily leap over four feet, or use the large holes of the field fence to climb out of it. He is taller than I am on his hind feet! I plan on fencing the area around the house and along the main road for my dogs (the other dog is part cattle dog and although much smaller just as jumpping and agile) and possibly having the garden in that fenced area too. SO maybe a half of an acre fenced for dogs and the garden. The road is along about 250 feet of the property and would eventually like an all wooden privacy fence along there to limit their trying to 'chase' cars along the fence line.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I once had a hound that could be fenced in by running string around him 6" off the ground.
He had touched the electric fence a couple of time and wouldn't cross anything that even looked like a wire.

For your dog I'd suggest some hot wires in addition to the field fencing to discourage him as well as other dogs. Dogs learn about electric fences very quickly.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

I would be more concerned about fencing in the goats.
I had cyclone fence, 4 feet tall. the goats figured out how to get under that fence in less than ten minutes..
I don't see a stranded wire fence keeping goats in.
I would suggest walking the Anatolian around inside the perimeter of the fence to teach it the boundaries.
However, the GP infusion might negate such training.
But it is worth a try.. My Maremma female did not need a fence of any kind.


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## DaisyDuke (Nov 21, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> I would be more concerned about fencing in the goats.
> I had cyclone fence, 4 feet tall. the goats figured out how to get under that fence in less than ten minutes..
> I don't see a stranded wire fence keeping goats in.
> I would suggest walking the Anatolian around inside the perimeter of the fence to teach it the boundaries.
> ...


I don't think I said I would use a stranded wire fence. I plan to use woven wire field fence ie 4x4 squares rather than 2x4 rectangles. I'm going to get Kinder goats which are almost as small as mini goats, one gal I spoke with said her goats mind three foot electric netting. I may go for electric netting but am leaning more towards a permanent perimeter fence. My dog, although a LGD by breed will not be a livestock guard dog. I want to fence the back yard and front yard area around the house so my dogs can safely go in and out of the house as they please.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Goats rub HEAVILY against field fence. I recommend a hot wire about nose height inside the fence.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Good article. 
https://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/goat-fencing-101-zbcz1406


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

REALLY good video

https://youtu.be/dOyY2yLvUMU


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I recommend this type of fence.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I recommend this type of fence.


That would also keep the dog in that would decide to leap it. 

Isn't that fence less likely to have goats catch their horns in?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I never had goats with horns.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I don't do LGDs, but my Trigg can get out of 2x4 welded wire in about a minute. Unless she can smell a hot wire somewhere, she will take her teeth and pop a couple welds loose and squeeze right through. Of course a coyote can do the same thing. It's the right size opening, but it needs to be heavier gauge, that fourteen or sixteen gauge stuff is nothing but a suggestion unless it has some hot wire protecting it. The cattle and goat panels like in the video are basically stairs. Gauge is too heavy, offers too good and comfortable of a footing. She could climb right over unless she had a running start and she could just skip to the top stair.

You need something like six foot minimum chain link set in concrete at the bottom to be considered a permanent dog barrier fence. It could be shorter with hot wire on top, and it could be lighter gauge wire and not set in concrete with a hot wire near the bottom.They might not get out of a four foot fence, but they are physically able to with the right motivation, even non athletic dogs.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

DaisyDuke said:


> I don't think I said I would use a stranded wire fence. I plan to use woven wire field fence ie 4x4 squares rather than 2x4 rectangles. I'm going to get Kinder goats which are almost as small as mini goats, one gal I spoke with said her goats mind three foot electric netting. I may go for electric netting but am leaning more towards a permanent perimeter fence. My dog, although a LGD by breed will not be a livestock guard dog. I want to fence the back yard and front yard area around the house so my dogs can safely go in and out of the house as they please.



If you use fence with the 4x4 inch holes, you will soon have some dead goats, and possibly your dog. The goats will put their heads through the fence and get hung up. I learned the hard way. The 2x4 inch is the best choice, with a hot wire along the top.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Chain link doesn’t work well with goats because of their rubbing habit.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

My Anatolians could easily jump a 4 foot fence. I added hot wire at the top and bottom so they didn't jump or dig. My dogs were raised with goats so they really didn't try to get out......well, except my female. She decided our 100 acre place wasn't enough for her so she would go and help the neighbors keep those darn Border Collies from chasing the cows.  I got tired of getting a phone call saying "Emma isn't playing nice with our dogs"....thus the hot wire. She stayed put then.


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## aart (Oct 20, 2012)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> REALLY good video


One thing here he didn't mention is that the fencing is on the wrong side of the posts, rotate posts 180° and put fence on animal side of posts.



Alice In TX/MO said:


> I recommend this type of fence.


 Livestock panels are great, if you can find a way to move the from the store to your house...but her advice is, in general, sketchy at best.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I didn’t care for her presentation but stock panels are the best solution.

Trailers are essential on a farm for moving things that won’t fit in your KIA.


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## DaisyDuke (Nov 21, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> If you use fence with the 4x4 inch holes, you will soon have some dead goats, and possibly your dog. The goats will put their heads through the fence and get hung up. I learned the hard way. The 2x4 inch is the best choice, with a hot wire along the top.


Hmm, I thought that was only goats with horns?


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## DaisyDuke (Nov 21, 2017)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I didn’t care for her presentation but stock panels are the best solution.
> 
> Trailers are essential on a farm for moving things that won’t fit in your KIA.


I'm planning on paying a friend with a truck to help with getting initial fence rolls, poles, tin roofs etc.


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## DaisyDuke (Nov 21, 2017)

hiddensprings said:


> My Anatolians could easily jump a 4 foot fence. I added hot wire at the top and bottom so they didn't jump or dig. My dogs were raised with goats so they really didn't try to get out......well, except my female. She decided our 100 acre place wasn't enough for her so she would go and help the neighbors keep those darn Border Collies from chasing the cows.  I got tired of getting a phone call saying "Emma isn't playing nice with our dogs"....thus the hot wire. She stayed put then.


How high was the top wire? I'm a bit confused about how you could have a hot wire at the bottom of a fence without it shorting out. Was it a couple inches horizontal from the bottom of the fence but not below the fence? Did you use a field fence or 2x4 welded wire?


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## DaisyDuke (Nov 21, 2017)

barnbilder said:


> I don't do LGDs, but my Trigg can get out of 2x4 welded wire in about a minute. Unless she can smell a hot wire somewhere, she will take her teeth and pop a couple welds loose and squeeze right through. Of course a coyote can do the same thing. It's the right size opening, but it needs to be heavier gauge, that fourteen or sixteen gauge stuff is nothing but a suggestion unless it has some hot wire protecting it. The cattle and goat panels like in the video are basically stairs. Gauge is too heavy, offers too good and comfortable of a footing. She could climb right over unless she had a running start and she could just skip to the top stair.
> 
> You need something like six foot minimum chain link set in concrete at the bottom to be considered a permanent dog barrier fence. It could be shorter with hot wire on top, and it could be lighter gauge wire and not set in concrete with a hot wire near the bottom.They might not get out of a four foot fence, but they are physically able to with the right motivation, even non athletic dogs.


Chain link seems expensive compared to farm fencing. I've also heard that goats that step on welded wire can pop the wires over time? 
I think I am going to go for 4 foot woven wire field fence (the kind that starts as 2x4 and goes up to 4x4 to help keep kids and chickens in) then put one or two hot wires on top. I'm not sure how to space the hot wires though. I think one six inches above the fence then another six too eight inches above it. I don't want anything to climb over the fence nor jump over it.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

If the critter jumps, a hot wire on top is not effective. 

The bottom hot wire is offset from the fence. There are brackets available at farm supply stores.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Offset advice

https://www.beefmagazine.com/fencing-guide/mistakes-made-offset-fence

mistakes to avoid 

https://www.ibiblio.org/farming-connection/grazing/features/fencemis.htm


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## aart (Oct 20, 2012)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Trailers are essential on a farm for moving things that won’t fit in your KIA.


Ha! I have a van and can move about anything in that, but the panels I had to get someone with a trailer, even then we kinked them a bit.
First livestock panels I got were delivered on a 20' trailer by a guy who wanted to get rid of them.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

My dog will jump over anything less than six feet, and six feet she can make it high enough to scramble over. If there is working electricity she will stay away from a three foot fence. My guess is that if she hadn't experienced electric fence before, she would jump a four foot panel with electric strands on top. Maybe getting shocked on the way out so that she wouldn't come back in.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

DaisyDuke said:


> How high was the top wire? I'm a bit confused about how you could have a hot wire at the bottom of a fence without it shorting out. Was it a couple inches horizontal from the bottom of the fence but not below the fence? Did you use a field fence or 2x4 welded wire?


.

The top wire was probably 6 inches above the Field fence (not sure how everyone defines field fence but it was just squares of wire.) we used to keep the goats in. The bottom wire was offset a few inches. So, basically it was about 6 inches off the ground and a few inches away from the wire fence. It didn't touch the actual fence. Hope that makes sense.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Never use welded wire for goats. Won't work. Been there done that. Replaced fence.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

DaisyDuke said:


> I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this because my Anatolian Great Pyrenees mix is not a livestock guard dog. He is a house pet and goes for hikes and walks on leash. While I've had him I have not lived anywhere that I can fence. We are moving to an old farm that was subdivided and had businesses built up around it. The house is on only two acres, I plan on fencing about three quarters of an acre, for goats but have heard they only need four feet of field fence. I will only have a couple of goats which will be locked up at night so I don't think I need a LGD, but my pet dogs will likely come hang out with the goats when I'm in the pen with them. I am positive my dog could easily leap over four feet, or use the large holes of the field fence to climb out of it. He is taller than I am on his hind feet! I plan on fencing the area around the house and along the main road for my dogs (the other dog is part cattle dog and although much smaller just as jumpping and agile) and possibly having the garden in that fenced area too. SO maybe a half of an acre fenced for dogs and the garden. The road is along about 250 feet of the property and would eventually like an all wooden privacy fence along there to limit their trying to 'chase' cars along the fence line.


..............................................................................................
.................Build your fence with 2"x4" , no climb wire.........this will keep the goats from getting their horns impaled in the wire ! You should also install 2 runs of hot wire , one at about 16 inches high and another around 3 feet or so spaced about 5 feet out from the fence . This will keep goats , horses and cattle from rubbing their bodies against your new fence and literally pushing IT over . Plus , it allows you to ride your mower along the fence and keep the weeds and grass looking good ! , fordy


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## Pyrpup2016 (Sep 11, 2016)

For some great training info, go to Farei Kennel on FB. She is a certified trainer and specializes in LGD. Even if you're not using your dog as a guardian, the training mindset is very good. The LGDs are very intelligent, and can learn boundaries, and many other "impossible" behaviors, with the right work. Check it out - the files for the site are like a book "for Dummies". It does take work, but the results can be well worth it.


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## Pyrpup2016 (Sep 11, 2016)

As for goat fencing, I had a goat dairy for 10 yrs. There is a saying that if water can get through the fence, the goats will. It's true. It needs to be at least the 48" of cattle panels, not bendable like field fencing, and well stretched. No gaps. Electric at top will help, and an electric offset inside at a low level. Yes, it does need to be kept trimmed to avoid shorting out. This will work for both the goats and dog. - though going to the trouble of training the dog it's boundaries is worth the work. Even though you don't need the dog to be an LGD, you may find that he/she is one whether you want it or not. It's bred into them. Various OCD behaviors are not unusual - they want all things to be in their places, Again, look up Farei Kennels, and read their files.


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## DaisyDuke (Nov 21, 2017)

fordy said:


> ..............................................................................................
> .................Build your fence with 2"x4" , no climb wire.........this will keep the goats from getting their horns impaled in the wire ! You should also install 2 runs of hot wire , one at about 16 inches high and another around 3 feet or so spaced about 5 feet out from the fence . This will keep goats , horses and cattle from rubbing their bodies against your new fence and literally pushing IT over . Plus , it allows you to ride your mower along the fence and keep the weeds and grass looking good ! , fordy


Isn't no climb horse fence welded wire? Don't goats usually twist and pop the wires with hooves and horns? I thought for goats woven wire was best? I'm not going to fence my fence for five feet, I have limited space to fence. I might run a wire a few inches from the fence but not a few feet.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

You can get “horse fence” in ALL KINDS of configurations. Buy the best material you can afford.


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## DaisyDuke (Nov 21, 2017)

Pyrpup2016 said:


> As for goat fencing, I had a goat dairy for 10 yrs. There is a saying that if water can get through the fence, the goats will. It's true. It needs to be at least the 48" of cattle panels, not bendable like field fencing, and well stretched. No gaps. Electric at top will help, and an electric offset inside at a low level. Yes, it does need to be kept trimmed to avoid shorting out. This will work for both the goats and dog. - though going to the trouble of training the dog it's boundaries is worth the work. Even though you don't need the dog to be an LGD, you may find that he/she is one whether you want it or not. It's bred into them. Various OCD behaviors are not unusual - they want all things to be in their places, Again, look up Farei Kennels, and read their files.


I will check out the kennels website. I only have a couple of acres so no LGD is needed and my LGD thinks his main job is guarding kids of the human variety and holding down the couch. I'm just hoping they are good with livestock when I get chickens and goats as the extra fencing to separate the dogs to keep the critters safe would be a pain. (Not giving up my pups, they are bonded litter mates even though one is half cattle dog. The half cattle dog gal save my life a couple years ago, so I feel like being a good dog mom to the both of them even if they serve no farm purpose.)


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## DaisyDuke (Nov 21, 2017)

One other issue I've found as I've walked the land again and again. There are a few points with rocky gullies, and to fence around instead of through them it would actually be on the neighboring property! They are like about three feet across and two feet deep. How on earth can I fence that when I can't sink a pole into the rocks? I am thinking of making a 'rock cage' of some type in the gully and putting a post that would be even with the rest of the fence. Like a rock jack but with the bottom of the fence along the rock cage. I'm sure there is a technical term for fencing wire wrapped around rocks to hold it in place but I haven't learnt it yet.


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## Pyrpup2016 (Sep 11, 2016)

DaisyDuke said:


> I will check out the kennels website. I only have a couple of acres so no LGD is needed and my LGD thinks his main job is guarding kids of the human variety and holding down the couch. I'm just hoping they are good with livestock when I get chickens and goats as the extra fencing to separate the dogs to keep the critters safe would be a pain. (Not giving up my pups, they are bonded litter mates even though one is half cattle dog. The half cattle dog gal save my life a couple years ago, so I feel like being a good dog mom to the both of them even if they serve no farm purpose.)



On the LGD sites, it seems universal that the "Sportdog" electric fence is the most effective. Apparently it can be wired to existing fence and will work for many acres. Doesn't have to be buried, which makes it easy to install, and they go underground in a pipe for across gate areas. The Farei mindset is that we are the shepherd, and in their original countries, these dogs lived with the family/shepherd - not just dumped out with the stock and magically know what to do. Do read their files for help with how to communicate with these marvelous dogs. With your crossbred dog, all bets are off, but you can teach what matters to you and the dogs pick up on that. 90 day program of being tethered to you or a stable point, so that they don't get the chance to misbehave. - If they don't have a chance to learn bad habits, it's much easier to end up with great members of the farm society. A long line is an insurance policy. Very important to work with each dog individually. Sorry for the long winded post, but these dogs can be wonderful, or a nightmare. Good training beginnings will go a long way to good endings.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

DaisyDuke said:


> Isn't no climb horse fence welded wire? Don't goats usually twist and pop the wires with hooves and horns? I thought for goats woven wire was best? I'm not going to fence my fence for five feet, I have limited space to fence. I might run a wire a few inches from the fence but not a few feet.


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............Red Brand 2x4 wire is made with the wire strands mechanically twisted around each other , not welded . Goats may wedge a hoof into a 2x4 space , but , they'll never beable to break a 12 gauge wire ! it is just too strong in my opinion . I suppose a large ram might beable to pop a wire with it's horn but the wire is awfully strong ! , fordy


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