# Bad Knees



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

After 2 x-rays and 1 MRI, my left knee is in bad shape, and my right knee is not much better.

Arthritis, gout, small tear in the meniscus, and the 'cushion' in the joint that keeps the bones from grinding together is not only worn thin, but has calcium deposits in the tissue.
Yep, hot mess.

Cause?

Doc says "Laura, you've worked like a man all your life, 45-55 hours a week on your feet (with (2) 13 hour days in that week) you are wearing your parts out".

Laura says "Doc, it's just me. there is no second income in the home"

Doc says "You are looking at knee replacement if you don't stop".

SO I have questions:

1. What can I do 'naturally' to combat arthritis?

2. What can I take to help the 'cushion' in my joints stay 'cushion-y"?

3. Along with ice and rest, what can I do to bring down the swelling?

I will see my PT monday (2 bulging discs in my neck, because of work) and have her build me a plan to strengthen the muscles around my knees to protect the bones.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Have you tried using OTC braces, like the stretchy kind that provide support when you're injured?
My left knee is still a better forecaster of incoming low pressure systems than the computer satellites the weathermen use, LOL, but the warmth and support of a knee brace can keep me going on a bad day.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Right now, the swelling is so bad, if I brace it, it will push the fluid and cause more problems.
Once I get the swelling down, I will have the doc prescribe a brace to protect it, but I am really wanting to do what I can to prevent another issue like I have now.

I am off work for 10 days, and that's no good. If I don't work, I don't eat.


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## MoBookworm1957 (Aug 24, 2015)

The thing I did with my bad knees,made muslin rice,bags with lavender in them. Heat in microwave for about 3 minutes,cover in flannel or small towel. Place on either side of knee. Place on wedge to elevate, so swelling will go down. Alternate heat with ice.


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## RLStewart (Sep 10, 2006)

My knees and most of my other joints actually, aren't the best. I take quite a few supplements to try to keep them going. Its hard to know what might help you the most but I think it would be worth trying something. There are joint supplements that have several ingredients or you can buy individual ones to test what might help. I think MSM and Hyaluronic Acid are the ones that help me the most. Also there are some anti-inflammatory ones like turmeric and tart cherry. I'm currently trying a new one that is collagen from chicken sternums.  My brother says its helped his bad shoulder quite a bit.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Try a good bioactive curcumin supplement. It's the stuff in tumeric that does the work. That will help with inflammation. Kill the inflammation, reduce the swelling and diminish the pain.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Glucosamine chondroitin helps many people but not everybody. It either works or it doesn't. You can buy it at a Walgreens.

Basically it gives cartilage the nourishment that it need to rebuild itself. That means it also nourishes the cartilage in your knees. 

Also, this site sells a truly excellent salve! http://thehennery.blogspot.com/. DH swore by it: he used it until his knee got so bad that he could no longer put off knee replacement.


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## kyweaver (Nov 30, 2009)

I feel like you've told us your occupation; I apologize for not remembering.
Can your employer accommodate to any degree? They may be required by law to provide reasonable accommodation if you have a doctor's note.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

I must toss in my two cents....try a knee replacement ...you will be amazed~


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

My friend kept getting the shots for about 3 years. Final failed to be able to return home after a walk on his own two feet and got his first new knee 2 weeks ago and is planning on the second one soon.

I am so glad I got mine done will soon be a year on the first one. I can now walk down hills with out pain climb up and downstairs normally and do not creak and crack when getting out of a chair.

 Al


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

Do them both at the same time. You will be glad you did.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

My girlfriend did that, two at once. I can only imagine how miserable i would be without one pain free knee to get around on while the surgery one healed up.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I ran into more unhappy people who had both done at the same time than I did who were happy they did both at once when I was asking around.

 Al


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Try turmeric pills that contain piperine or bioperine. It won't cure you, but it might help. I use it for my shoulders.

1 or 2 drops of Essential Oils Peppermint mixed in a quarter size amount of aloe vera gel, rubbed on the knees might help. It helps me, but I do not have anywhere near the problems you have with your knees.


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## FarmerJoe (Nov 14, 2009)

I use Turmeric for inflammation. When I had a stress fracture in my heel and my whole leg was swollen, I had to keep the leg wrapped and elevated to help push the swelling out.


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

My dad had both of his done at the same time when he was 81, hospital for 3 days and did therapy same day he had them done. Bunch of others in there that also had both done. Had used a walker for 2 weeks and then a cane for 2 more then off he was. 2 years later and now he is up and down hills emptying maple sap bags and carrying 2 five gallon pails like he is a teenager again. He knows lots of others that did both at same time and are happy they did not have to go through it twice.
Dr told him the people who come out best are the active ones. The ones that are lazy and watch TV and complain all day are the worst as they don't want to to therapy or help themselves get better.


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## pointer33 (Oct 15, 2008)

Well, I do not log in to reply too often but I thought I ought to share my experience on this one. I have tried hyaluronic acid and glucosamine supplements....I think the HA that is enteric coated to protect from stomach acid is best....neither one helped me much unless I was consistent for at least a month....I had both knees scoped due to injuries...but only about 30-40% on each meniscus was cut out to get the tears...I think....but over time I developed knees that hurt all of the time...arthritis...etc....I did not like to get on the floor...it hurt to get up and it hurt to deal with stairs....not crippled but I could see where it was going in a decade or so.....now I eat a much better diet....sleep more...and what I want to mention is a product called astaxanthin....specifically bioastin.....I read about it in a newsletter from a cost share health program, it is a very powerful antioxidant I believe derived from a type of algae....I read what I could about it and bought off amazon from the company that did much of the research....I am terrible at being regular with supplements but I think it contributed to my knees being much better....can do deep knee bends regularly now in my job with rare hint of discomfort. BTW synthetic astaxanthin is used to make farmed salmon orange I think...yuk....not the right stuff....also I think my iliotibial band on the side of my leg being too tight chronically set me up for some of the knee problems too. anyway, hope that was not too jumbled to be helpful.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> View attachment 59274
> 
> 
> After 2 x-rays and 1 MRI, my left knee is in bad shape, and my right knee is not much better.
> ...


I have a problem with my left knee too... 



> Cause?


Life... its a preexisting condition..



> Doc says "Laura, you've worked like a man all your life, 45-55 hours a week on your feet (with (2) 13 hour days in that week) you are wearing your parts out".


Your "doc" is an idiot.. 



> Laura says "Doc, it's just me. there is no second income in the home"
> 
> Doc says "You are looking at knee replacement if you don't stop".


Its not about stopping.. its about working smarter to take the stress off your joints. As for me, the cause was jumping off the tractor twenty times a day instead of using the step to gently step down. Now, when I go up, my right leg (good knee) goes first.. and when I go down, I use the step and my good knee supports my weight until the left extended leg has gently landed.



> SO I have questions:
> 
> 1. What can I do 'naturally' to combat arthritis?


Not much.. other than the obvious "take it easy on it"



> 2. What can I take to help the 'cushion' in my joints stay 'cushion-y"?
> 3. Along with ice and rest, what can I do to bring down the swelling?
> 
> I will see my PT monday (2 bulging discs in my neck, because of work) and have her build me a plan to strengthen the muscles around my knees to protect the bones.


My doctor was an idiot too. (yes, I'm being flippant) Not educated in the type of medicine required for this kind of problem.. So I went to see an orthopedic surgeon.. One single visit to his office, he took two x-rays then came back into the office with a syringe and needle the size of a freaking telephone pole.. He said "I'm going to suck the fluid out of your knee".. to which I replied.. If you stick that telephone pole in me, I'm going to stick it in your eyeball! To which he replied "you have a bad knee, I can outrun you!" 
So he numbed up my knee with some (ether?) and stuck the telephone pole into me and sucked out what looked like two or three shot-glasses full of liquid... then he disconnected the syringe, (but left the damn telephone pole inside me), and hooked up another syringe with Cortisone and injected it. Hurt like hell for five minutes and then the pain subsided to a level below what it was when I walked in to his office.

About three days later, my knee was feeling like it was as good as new.. the Coritisone really did its thing. 

Its been two months and I'm still fine.. I have just changed the way I do things. When I go down the stairs carrying heavy stuff, I keep the weight off my left side the best I can. I don't jump off the tractor anymore and I don't put heavy stress on my left knee... and all is well.


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## DryLandFish (May 13, 2017)

I second the curcumin and MSM. I had some bouts of inflammatory arthritis that caused some damage to my knees and other joints. But I really feel the knees at times. MSM did nothing until I upped the dose to 6g a day. Very safe stuff, so high dose is not an issue. Also, stretching and some functional yoga helped a me a lot. Good luck!


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## topofmountain (Nov 1, 2013)

I tried about everything to help my knees with no real successful results. I fought knee replacement for two years. In fact to the point I could barely walk. Finally I decided I had no other choices. So in May I found an Orthopedic Surgeon I really liked a former Naval Orthopedic surgeon. (He was the 4th doctor I had met with.) I had the first knee replaced. I'm sorry now I didn't do it earlier. I'm 67 years old & I'm pain free & working hard at rebuilding my strength. In Oct or Nov I will have the other one done. I have to say I was scared to death facing surgery. Not knowing what might happen. I had heard all the horror stories. Along with a lot of good. I finally had to give it to the Lord & he carried me through with great results. Its a personal decision that only you can make. But if the doctors are saying replacement or hinting at that don't do what I did & waste time putting off a long term solution.


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## CountryMom22 (Nov 27, 2014)

I've been wondering how you're doing Laura? Hope you have found some relief for those knees. I've been dealing with bad knees for years. Done the cortisone and Euflexa for the last 18 months, which gets me some relief. Didn't realize just how bad the pain was until it was gone. I just got used to being in constant pain. But I know I'm looking at replacements sooner rather than later. I've been trying to put it off as long as possible, but I'm beginning to come around to the idea that I would rather be pain free now while I'm still young enough to get back to doing the things I love, even if it means that I'll have to have them replaced more than once. Problem is, I'm only 52 and I've heard that the pain is way worse when you have to replace a replacement. And since they only last 10-15 years with a very active person, I know I'll be replacing the replacements if I'm lucky enough to live that long.

But I'm definitely coming around.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Better hurry up, then. If you wait too long, there can be too much damage done to repair fuly. In addition, as you age, doctors will decide that your age AND any existing health conditions are unfavorable for the surgery and refuse to do it. Then too, there's the current recipe for a health care melt down..... They may decide that repairing knees on a 50 year old is good, older than that, a waste of money.

Mon


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

BioKnee or something similar, maybe?


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## topofmountain (Nov 1, 2013)

CountryMom22 said:


> I've been wondering how you're doing Laura? Hope you have found some relief for those knees. I've been dealing with bad knees for years. Done the cortisone and Euflexa for the last 18 months, which gets me some relief. Didn't realize just how bad the pain was until it was gone. I just got used to being in constant pain. But I know I'm looking at replacements sooner rather than later. I've been trying to put it off as long as possible, but I'm beginning to come around to the idea that I would rather be pain free now while I'm still young enough to get back to doing the things I love, even if it means that I'll have to have them replaced more than once. Problem is, I'm only 52 and I've heard that the pain is way worse when you have to replace a replacement. And since they only last 10-15 years with a very active person, I know I'll be replacing the replacements if I'm lucky enough to live that long.
> 
> But I'm definitely coming around.


I'm in my late 60s & I have friends in their late 70s that have had replacement knees for 15-20 years & are still going strong The key is to get in shape before & staying in shape & after the surgery do what the PTs tell you. I went to the gym a month before surgery rode a bike & did weight training. Many get their knees replaced & can't deal with the short term pain after the surgery which is less than the daily pain I'm sure your dealing with now. At least that was my case. I'm hoping to get my other knee done in Nov of this year. Its was tough surgery mentally for me, but I was determined to get better asap. I had full range of movement within 3 weeks, The doctor & PT were just amazed. I can even get on my knees if I need to. I just have to be careful getting down. 

I interviewed Drs & hospitals before finding a retired Navy Orthopedic Surgeon at a hospital that I had been in before.

To be honest I have to give the Lord all the credit for my recovery & finding the right Dr & hospital. All I did was do the footwork & wait on him. It took a year to get it done from when I started looking for the right dr.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I'm sorry you are in pain, Laura. I know how much pain my husband has from his knees. Steroids do wonders. Knee Replacement is always an option, but HONESTLY, I have seen nobody who has been completely satisfied with their results. My husband does steroid shots on both hips and knees four times a year. He prefers to alternate Hip/knees/hip/knees every six weeks. That way there are always fresh steroids coming into the body. They will only do each joint every 12weeks, so you can alternated doing one then the other every six weeks. Oral Dex does wonders too, but there is a limit on how much you can take. Dexamethazone works better than Prednisone, but most doctors try to push you to use prednisone. I understand the reasoning, but pain should be controlled. Steroids actually control pain better than any pain killer.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I do want to add that using multiple steroids and high dose steroids raise the risk of cancer and other disease. You just have to weigh risk versus benefit. Life has to be worth living, you know? So does the benefits outweigh the added risk? I guess it depends on your age and health. 



mekasmom said:


> I'm sorry you are in pain, Laura. I know how much pain my husband has from his knees. Steroids do wonders. Knee Replacement is always an option, but HONESTLY, I have seen nobody who has been completely satisfied with their results. My husband does steroid shots on both hips and knees four times a year. He prefers to alternate Hip/knees/hip/knees every six weeks. That way there are always fresh steroids coming into the body. They will only do each joint every 12weeks, so you can alternated doing one then the other every six weeks. Oral Dex does wonders too, but there is a limit on how much you can take. Dexamethazone works better than Prednisone, but most doctors try to push you to use prednisone. I understand the reasoning, but pain should be controlled. Steroids actually control pain better than any pain killer.


I do


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

I guess it all depends on what shape you're in when you get the replacement. Andrew had his in his 80's. he suffered for years. then after he could do most things he did before. he got up and down in the garden as well as I did. for the pain in his arm he had the cortisone shot. that lasted until he passed which was years later. 

Laura is working as a bartender I believe or waitress or both. now I work like a man too. but it's different work . if I want to stop anytime I can. I don't but I can. my son's friend's wife did the same thing. she's all crippled up now. several more he knows . same line of work. had to quit. ~Georgia


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## CountryMom22 (Nov 27, 2014)

I have an extraordinarily high pain threshold, so I'm not worried about the pain during recovery. I'm worried about taking time off from work for recovery as I'm self employed. The doc said if I can do most of my work sitting, which I could, I should only be out for 3-4 weeks. I'm already in the gym 5-6 days a week and weight lifting too, so that part of recovery wouldn't be strange to me. Just have to see how things go, I guess! Right now, with the cortisone and Euflexa alternating and taking glucosamine daily, I consider myself functional. What bothers me is the instability in the left knee. I never know when I'll take a bad step and feel like the bottom half of my leg is being pulled off. Working out definitely helps with that as I'm working to strengthen the ligaments around my knees. Currently, I'm able to walk 2-3 miles a few times a week as well, so something is working!

Hope you've found some relief Laura. My best to everyone!


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

Countrymom, Do you know what is actually wrong with your knees? With describing instability just wondering if it is the joint or ligaments/tendon around it. Kinesiology Tape may help stabilize your knee, I use use it when my MCL acts up. If you do need a joint replacement it sounds like you may heal well since you keep yourself in good shape, build the leg muscles before surgery as that helps recovery.
good luck


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## CountryMom22 (Nov 27, 2014)

I have almost no cartilidge left in my knees, with some bone spurs as well. I'll look into the tape. Anything that can help! Thanks.


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

Yes the tape helps with stability but sadly sounds like you might be looking into new joint some time in your future. But by your keeping the legs strong like you do will greatly improve your recovery. 
I also have not much cartilage left and the joint is "sloppy" so at times I strain my mcl and the tape helps a lot.

As stated above my my dad had both replaced at 81 but he was strong and active so his recovery was good and fast . I am lucky to have old parents that act and look 30 years younger then they are


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## CountryMom22 (Nov 27, 2014)

Yeah, I've already made my peace with the idea of surgery, just trying not to do it too soon. As long as I can do what I want, within reason. Don't think I'll be running any 10Ks, but I'm ok with that!


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## topofmountain (Nov 1, 2013)

I'm completely satisfied with my knee replacement. As for recovery I was way better than before the replacement within a week. I worked hard getting back into shape before surgery. I was told if I worked out prior to surgery I would be far ahead with recovery. I weight trained & rode a bike. I'm not young. 
Its getting your mind right & getting ready for hard work. The PT & Doctor were just amazed at how quickly I recovered. I'm hoping to get the other one done in Dec. I'm sorry I waited so long.


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## How Do I (Feb 11, 2008)

Were/are you on any other prescribed medications leading up to this? Perhaps for something even unrelated? If so, you might want to check the prescription insert for adverse reactions, even rare. They might not be as rare as you're led to believe. The second most commonly prescribed high blood pressure medication can cause arthrosis. Some people might write that off as "overworking their bodies" (their doctors may as well  - "do you want me to write you a prescription for that too?" ), when in fact it is the prescription medicine causing that. Do most people ever read those things anyway, before they toss them in the trash? Just something for you to think about if you were on prescription medication leading up to this. Or anyone else, for that matter.


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