# Nubian Breeding age



## Meg Z (Jun 8, 2004)

I'm curious...at what age (or weight, if you go by that) do you breed, for a first breeding of a doe? I've heard everything from 'whenever they want' to at 2 years old. The person I got my girls from last month was a two year person. My neighbor thinks I'm silly beacuse I don't want to breed the 6 mos old!

So, what's the consensus?

Meg


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## Tracy in Idaho (Dec 8, 2002)

I go by weight -- no less than 80 lbs -- but mine are closer to 100 lbs when they are bred at 7-8 months of age.

I don't do dry yearlings -- they tend to get fat, and you've wasted an entire productive year. I just got yelled at by a friend because I didn't leave any dry yearlings for nationals next July. Don't care, I need them to be working girls asap!

Tracy


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## okgoatgal2 (May 28, 2002)

i agree....75-80 lbs...i never waited unless they were just SMALL and that rarely happened.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

I like to breed mine at 8- 10 months, and at least 80 pounds.
mary


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## Hank - Narita (Aug 12, 2002)

We bred our yearling at 9 months old. She continued to grow and had 2 bucks in May with no problems. She had great mothering instincts and moved taking care of her babies.


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## dscott7972 (Aug 25, 2004)

I go by the 80lbs rule also.


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## Meg Z (Jun 8, 2004)

Thanks, Ladies and Gents. 

Meg


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Although I breed my doelings to kid on their first birthday (7 months...88+ pounds) , in fact all does are bred in October here for March babies, if you don't make weight you are sold, I do not recommend new folks do this.

I think as a whole goats you purchase, especially kids, do not grow as well as homegrown does do. It takes awhile for the new breeder to get their sealegs, find their feed managment, worming, cocci........and figure out who they are going to listen to. You purchased these goats from someone who likely has bred the breed for awhile? yet you are now not going to listen to her? Why? Is the bloodline perhaps slower maturing? It would be one thing to after you have bred these does for awhile, to then perhaps take a twin, breed one, let the other mature, then see for yourself. You also have alot less problems with kidding, if you let the doe mature, how big a kids does the buck you are breeding to throw? Are you selenium defficient, can you give Bo-se to make sure she gives you twins and not one big buck? In Nubian you also have alot more milk in an older 1st freshener than a younger one, so if all you are breeding is young does, you likely will not have enough milk. You also do not have as good of colostrum in a young doe. And when you do have a young doe, kidding on her first birthday, with a good milk supply and multiples (we have had an 11 month old have 3) you had better know your feeding managment, and have it working, and know what hypocalcemia and how to treat it, better yet how to prevent it, and know :worship: Sue Reith's :worship: article by heart 

So, you will see some of us talk out of both sides of our mouth on this issue, what we do, and what we recommend our customers do. IF you are mirroring someones managment who is doing this, that is one thing. In Nubian if you are not feeding alfalfa hay or alfala pellets and these are good milkers, you will have bowed legs and/or hypocalcemia and/or weak small kids, if bred young and the does carry multiples. Vicki


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## WolfSoul (Sep 9, 2004)

I'm glad this question was asked, but after reading this, my head is spinning. I feel so dumb. I have a doe that's going to kid the first part of Nov. (Nubian) and I didn't know all of this. She's not on alfalfa, but good grass hay...........I don't know which way is up anymore. Anybody else feeling stupid and overwhelmed???? 

Thanks for this answer, Vicki. As always, it makes a lot of sense. Just wish I could grasp all of this info.

Karen



Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians said:


> Although I breed my doelings to kid on their first birthday (7 months...88+ pounds) , in fact all does are bred in October here for March babies, if you don't make weight you are sold, I do not recommend new folks do this.
> 
> I think as a whole goats you purchase, especially kids, do not grow as well as homegrown does do. It takes awhile for the new breeder to get their sealegs, find their feed managment, worming, cocci........and figure out who they are going to listen to. You purchased these goats from someone who likely has bred the breed for awhile? yet you are now not going to listen to her? Why? Is the bloodline perhaps slower maturing? It would be one thing to after you have bred these does for awhile, to then perhaps take a twin, breed one, let the other mature, then see for yourself. You also have alot less problems with kidding, if you let the doe mature, how big a kids does the buck you are breeding to throw? Are you selenium defficient, can you give Bo-se to make sure she gives you twins and not one big buck? In Nubian you also have alot more milk in an older 1st freshener than a younger one, so if all you are breeding is young does, you likely will not have enough milk. You also do not have as good of colostrum in a young doe. And when you do have a young doe, kidding on her first birthday, with a good milk supply and multiples (we have had an 11 month old have 3) you had better know your feeding managment, and have it working, and know what hypocalcemia and how to treat it, better yet how to prevent it, and know :worship: Sue Reith's :worship: article by heart
> 
> So, you will see some of us talk out of both sides of our mouth on this issue, what we do, and what we recommend our customers do. IF you are mirroring someones managment who is doing this, that is one thing. In Nubian if you are not feeding alfalfa hay or alfala pellets and these are good milkers, you will have bowed legs and/or hypocalcemia and/or weak small kids, if bred young and the does carry multiples. Vicki


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## Meg Z (Jun 8, 2004)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians said:


> I You purchased these goats from someone who likely has bred the breed for awhile? yet you are now not going to listen to her? Why?


ummm...did I miss something? I didn't say I was not going to listen to her, I simply asked other people's opinions. I certainly couldn't take those 2 year olds that have never been bred, and breed them any younger. And, as I said, I have no intention of breeding the 6 mos old, despite my neighbor's comments. So, now I'm confused. 

I got information from the breeder, and asked for more information here. What part of that was wrong?

Meg


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

I got information from the breeder, and asked for more information here. What part of that was wrong?
......................................

Naaa, nothing wrong. Please don't read anything into what I wrote, it's just an opinion. I talk as plain as I write  With many less misspelled words 

Without knowledge of the bloodline, nobody could give you blanket information that yes you can breed all Nubians at 7 months 78 pounds or 8 months 88 pounds. Why I think the breeder of the bloodline's answer to your question should carry more weight. Not at all saying you can't do what you want, I just think that when you need to ask questions, for reassurance, than you have not been breeding long enough to be able to discern between who is telling you good information and who is not.

OK now that was even worse than the last post! I really mean this as nicely as I can say it.

It's like linebreeding. When you have to ask the question...can I breed this buck to my doe even though it is her grandfather/brother/uncle/father. Well the real answers is NO. Although as breeders we all practice linebreeding, super tight linebreeding sometimes  but we know what we are trying to acheive, and are willing to ruthlessly cull out mistakes. So if you have to ask the question, you don't know enough about the line to make that kind of call.

OH god, I quit  I am really a very nice person  Vicki


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## debitaber (Jun 6, 2003)

I know people say you can breed at 7 months. But I go with 85 pounds, and one year . that is the best, and they are mature, and ready to breed. If yu breed to early, you are just going to open yor self up for trouble, as your doe, is not mature enough to breed.


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## GoatTalkr9 (Aug 1, 2002)

Lol...Vickie,I saw what you were saying in both posts..and it's true.If you are feeling unsure enough to post,you need much more info.,which is WHY you post..to learn and come to an informed decision. As for you being a nice person..I agree with that. I've seen you help out many,many folk over the last two years that I've been online. You've told folk what they NEEDED to hear whether they WANTED to hear it or not.Saying what needs said doesn't make you an unkind person.You have the well being of their goats in mind,and are only doing what the poster has asked..giving them advice.


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## Meg Z (Jun 8, 2004)

Hey, Vickie,
Talk as plain as you want....we'll get it all figured out.  

I'll try to be plainer, as well. I have no intention at this time of changing anything on the routine I discussed with the breeder of my girls. On the other hand, I'm always interested in how other folks do things. I do like to compare, and to apply reasoning, and may make some changes in the future, but not without a lot of research, and discussion. And not on these girls, but perhaps on their offspring. Or their offspring's offspring. It depends on when I feel I have enough information to consider making changes. "Information" being both written, and what the goats teach me. 

I grew up on a farm, am a vet tech, and a current major in Biology, so I'm no stranger to the role genetics plays in growth factors of different bloodlines, as well as other factors. 

On the other hand, I'm new to 'working' Nubians, and want as much information from as many sources as I can get. This is only one place I've gone for information. There's a good group of knowledgable folks here. They often seem to do things the same, and just as often seem to do things quite differently...and can usually explain Why something works for them. It's one of the things I like about this place.

And, Vickie, I have no doubt you're a nice person! I think it's just sometimes very hard to convey what is meant without facial expressions and vocal tones! I had trouble phrasing my answer. I wanted to convey confusion, and re-reading it now, it sounds angry. 

Oh well. Keep offering information, all you goat people. We new goat folks will continue to digest it...although we may need some Probios to help out!

Meg


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## debitaber (Jun 6, 2003)

believe it or not , I saw some probious for people at a health food store, and almost bought it. I thik I need some from time to time.


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## lilhamwest33 (Dec 2, 2020)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians said:


> Although I breed my doelings to kid on their first birthday (7 months...88+ pounds) , in fact all does are bred in October here for March babies, if you don't make weight you are sold, I do not recommend new folks do this.
> 
> I think as a whole goats you purchase, especially kids, do not grow as well as homegrown does do. It takes awhile for the new breeder to get their sealegs, find their feed managment, worming, cocci........and figure out who they are going to listen to. You purchased these goats from someone who likely has bred the breed for awhile? yet you are now not going to listen to her? Why? Is the bloodline perhaps slower maturing? It would be one thing to after you have bred these does for awhile, to then perhaps take a twin, breed one, let the other mature, then see for yourself. You also have alot less problems with kidding, if you let the doe mature, how big a kids does the buck you are breeding to throw? Are you selenium defficient, can you give Bo-se to make sure she gives you twins and not one big buck? In Nubian you also have alot more milk in an older 1st freshener than a younger one, so if all you are breeding is young does, you likely will not have enough milk. You also do not have as good of colostrum in a young doe. And when you do have a young doe, kidding on her first birthday, with a good milk supply and multiples (we have had an 11 month old have 3) you had better know your feeding managment, and have it working, and know what hypocalcemia and how to treat it, better yet how to prevent it, and know :worship: Sue Reith's :worship: article by heart
> 
> So, you will see some of us talk out of both sides of our mouth on this issue, what we do, and what we recommend our customers do. IF you are mirroring someones managment who is doing this, that is one thing. In Nubian if you are not feeding alfalfa hay or alfala pellets and these are good milkers, you will have bowed legs and/or hypocalcemia and/or weak small kids, if bred young and the does carry multiples. Vicki



Hi Vickie,
I have two 11-month-old Nubian does. They are registered and came from a reputable breeder. They seem on the small side to me. I still need to measure them but I'm not sure they are growing properly. I am wondering if it could be because we haven't put hay out regularly during the spring and summer. You mentioned above that feeding them alfalfa hay is imperative to them birthing healthy babies. I do give a grain mix that was recommended by the breeder. The reason for not putting out hay is we were told they would have enough to eat in the pasture during those seasons. Now looking at their size and the recommendations for breeding, I'm worried my sweet girls are not getting enough to eat. We definitely put out hay in the winter and we do give daily grain. I do not have my own fenced pasture for them. I have them in my mother-in-law's pasture with her pigmy goats (11 goats for her). We don't want to feed her goats and ours. What would be your recommendation on the hay/alfalfa? Should we have it available all year long? 

Thank you so much,
Lillian


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Sorry Vickie hasn't responded but she hasn't been on here in 4 years.
If you make a new post for your question you have a better chance of getting a response.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Vicki no longer has goats.

Breed young does to kid when they are at least 12 months old.

ALWAYS have hay or browse available.

Limit grain except when growing to the 12 month point and on the milk stand after kidding. Over feeding grain harms more than helps.


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