# Sheep with syst under arm (pictures)



## speakmanfamily (Aug 12, 2011)

so we had to cut the poop out of the back of our sheep, so flys didnt lay eggs, while doing so we noticed that three of our lambs had bumps/systs under their arms, 

does anyone know what caused them, and what to do about them?



































Also, i thought this was peculiar, one lamb had three nipples, two next to each other.


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## sgian (May 26, 2008)

I hate to be the one that raises the possibility of CL, but there are glands under the arms that can turn into bumps when the animal is infected. I've seen it in goats, although it is more commonly noticed under the jaw since people don't normally look in an animals armpits. There are two ways to eliminate the possibility of CL. 

One is to find a vet that will take a sample and have it tested. It will take a while, so the animals will have to be quarantined in the meantime.

Two is to check yourself. Just be careful to wear gloves and not make a mess because it is highly contagious to other sheep and goats, and people can catch it too (in rare cases but it has happened). Restrain the sheep, take a razor and make a slit in the abscess, and squeeze it out wiping while you do so. If it is CL, it will look like cream cheese coming out. You can do a google image search if you want for more information. Wipe up the stuff and don't let it touch the ground, make sure you have squeezed it all out, and then disinfect with iodine so it doesn't get infected with something else. Burn the garbage.

If it is CL, it is best to cull immediately before any abcesses burst or get scraped and infect your property and other animals. Good luck, and I hope you got a good price on those sheep.


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## LibertyWool (Oct 23, 2008)

When I first read your title, I thought injection site reaction to vaccination, but the pictures don't really look like what I would expect. Normally they are about the size of a large pea and yours look like they are about an inch. 

There are many things that can cause cysts, and CL is the one everyone dreads. I would probably have the vet come out and have them tested. 

As for having three nipples, it is not uncommon for ewes to have an extra set of false nipples. Some people snip off the extra ones when they are young, but I've always left them. Only once did it become a problem, as this ewe had three lambs and one insisted on sucking on the false nipple which had almost no milk.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

So potentially the sheep's lymph glands are swollen. If they are soft the sheep is likely getting over a minor infection. If they are hard and stay that way consider CL


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Oh third nipple is nothing to be concerned about most of mine have 4 on average, and a few where all 4 work just fine!


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## speakmanfamily (Aug 12, 2011)

Great news!

Its not CL, i am so relieved,

the lady we bought them called last night to check up, and we asked her about them, 
she said she vaccinated them and she should of had help, and she did it wrong, a few of her own sheep have them and are healing.


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## sgian (May 26, 2008)

I don't see how she could have caused abscesses in various places on various sheep by "vaccinating wrong," especially in locations that she did not inject at. If I were in your case, I would be contacting the vaccine producer to see if that is even possible. ..::WELCOME TO COLORADO SERUM COMPANY::..


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

What and why did they vaccinate there?


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## sgian (May 26, 2008)

contacted the vaccine producer since I was interested, and here is the response



> The CL vaccine is an inactivated bacterin-toxoid, so it contains no live organisms. Every serial has to be tested for purity, potency and safety prior to release as required by USDA. The purity test is a sterility test to confirm that the product is not contaminated. Because of this the vaccine cannot create abscesses. However I have seen that in sheep that have pre-existing disease (usually unknowingly due to internal abscesses) the vaccine can exacerbate this disease. My theory is that the vaccine does create a local area of inflammation at the injection site from the adjuvant and if the animal is harboring internal abscesses the bacteria travel from these abscesses through the lymph channels to the injection site area of inflammation and an abscess develops. I actually have seen this in animals that we vaccinated with sterile needle and syringe and then an abscess developed at the injection site a couple of weeks later. We euthanized these animals (they were part of a study) and upon necropsy found abscesses in the hilar region of the thorax.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I was in your situation, I'd be cutting one abscess open with all due precaution as I described earlier in the thread to see if it looks like cream cheese, or is some other type of infection. In the likely case that it comes out as CL cheesy pus, then I would be insisting on getting ALL of my money back. If she refuses, then see a lawyer. Leave the other abscesses alone to minimize the spread of the disease onto your property, and in case it comes to a lawsuit for an expert to examine.


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## kit (Apr 15, 2004)

Well I vaccinate behind their front legs in that soft skin - probably not the proper spot, but it is just easy for me and I can very easily tell that I am under the skin. It causes a bubble sort of like your picture and yes it takes a while to go away and heal up. But, I do use clean needles and it still happens - I find that it is more dependant on the size of dose I give them. For example, with TaxVax the initial dose is 4ml, well that can leave a darn big welt if given properly under the skin. Go in to far, so that you are not under the skin and you don't get any lump - probably don't get the proper effect of the vaccine either though. Then when I follow up with the booster 2ml dose it doesn't leave as big of a lump simply because I give less. But the lump in only at the site of injection not found at random spots on the the lamb...


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

speakmanfamily said:


> Great news!
> 
> Its not CL, i am so relieved,
> 
> ...


Sounds like the seller is practicing CYA. Don't know that I'd believe her.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Seen Vaccines do that, specially if given in the wrong area, it will burst in time, unless you want to lance it and put some Catron IV spray in it, to keep the flies off.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

I just can't figure out why you would vaccinate in those areas. I have vaccinated in the same area always for over 30 years and never had a vaccinated area cause a huge absess (small spot once in a great while but usually gone completely in a few days). I guess I am just unsure about why some folks want to vaccinate in such weird places. 

Use clean needles and srynges...don't use too large of needles


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## Kato2010 (Jun 24, 2012)

My bottle of vaccine says to vaccinate there. That's what they mean by axilliary on the label. In a fleecy sheep I have a hard time getting a sub Q shot on the neck. After shearing, that would be a different matter. I've given literally thousands of sub Q shots to cattle, and they are a lot easier to do than on a wriggly little sheep. 

I had a lump on one of my sheep from vaccinating, and have figured out how it likely happened. I was doing it by myself, and they were getting Covexin Plus as well as Case Bac. I was doing one on the left side, and one on the right. In the middle of the action, I think I got my syringes mixed up, and may have given Case Bac with the Covexin syringe, or vice versa. I'm thinking some Covexin in the CaseBac may have caused a reaction. Lesson learned. Next time I'm going to mark the syringes with a Sharpie. 

Covexin and Tasvax are notoriously irritating, so lumps are not uncommon. Cattle get them too. We don't use Tasvax at all because of it. The Covexin Plus is a 2ml dose, which is more reasonably sized for a little sheep.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

That's a very common injection site, and it's not uncommon to see lumps from the CD/T vaccine. I've gotten a few, even though I use proper technique. They usually go away after a while. Since it's in the same spot on all the sheep, I'd say it is consistent with vaccine lumps. 

And if you don't mind the extra teat, then keep her. I had one born with 4 teats, and I did not keep her. I personally don't like extra teats, and I didn't breed to that ram again.


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## speakmanfamily (Aug 12, 2011)

Thanks so much! Thats what the lady said happened to her too! 





Kato2010 said:


> My bottle of vaccine says to vaccinate there. That's what they mean by axilliary on the label. In a fleecy sheep I have a hard time getting a sub Q shot on the neck. After shearing, that would be a different matter. I've given literally thousands of sub Q shots to cattle, and they are a lot easier to do than on a wriggly little sheep.
> 
> I had a lump on one of my sheep from vaccinating, and have figured out how it likely happened. I was doing it by myself, and they were getting Covexin Plus as well as Case Bac. I was doing one on the left side, and one on the right. In the middle of the action, I think I got my syringes mixed up, and may have given Case Bac with the Covexin syringe, or vice versa. I'm thinking some Covexin in the CaseBac may have caused a reaction. Lesson learned. Next time I'm going to mark the syringes with a Sharpie.
> 
> Covexin and Tasvax are notoriously irritating, so lumps are not uncommon. Cattle get them too. We don't use Tasvax at all because of it. The Covexin Plus is a 2ml dose, which is more reasonably sized for a little sheep.


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## speakmanfamily (Aug 12, 2011)

Thanks very much! The lumps are going down, and as for the teat, i didnt see it as a problem i just found it kind of interesting/amusing ^^



MDKatie said:


> That's a very common injection site, and it's not uncommon to see lumps from the CD/T vaccine. I've gotten a few, even though I use proper technique. They usually go away after a while. Since it's in the same spot on all the sheep, I'd say it is consistent with vaccine lumps.
> 
> And if you don't mind the extra teat, then keep her. I had one born with 4 teats, and I did not keep her. I personally don't like extra teats, and I didn't breed to that ram again.


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## finnsheep (May 23, 2012)

Extra teats are called hyperthelia. They are highly heritable, though in most cases, fairly harmless, especially when they are simply "extras" and not double or fish teats. Alexander Graham Bell was fascinated by hyperthelia in sheep and he researched the trait to see if more teats equals higher milk production. Alas, he discovered that it only increased the rate of mastitis, as more teat canals offer more ways for bacteria to enter the mammary gland.

In cattle, supernumerary teats are frequently removed when the heifer is very young, but this is not commonly done in ewe lambs or doelings. It might be wise to not do so or make some kind of notation in the records to show that the altered animal is in fact affected with hyperthelia, so that buyers are not surprised unpleasantly by offspring affected with the trait. And don't forget that rams can also actually display hyperthelia too- so flip the rams over and check them before purchasing if that is a concern.


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