# Protein



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Protein is important. No matter if you are doing keto, omad, just winging it, whatever, make sure you are getting enough protein. All sorts of reasons. Notable are that if you don't get enough, you will still be hungry, if you are hungry, diets are hard to stick to. You can also lose muscle. You can lose muscle while gaining fat, if you aren't getting enough protein. Muscle helps you burn calories. Muscle burns calories even while you are asleep. A muscular person burns more calories than a non-muscular person, all other things equal. You don't want to lose muscle. Found this informative article. Read it, and eat your protein.https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/protein-deficiency-symptoms


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Actually protein is least important thing to worry about. You get enough calories of NATURAL non-factory food, you get enough protein, simple as that. Healthy fat is what keeps you feeling full longer and what is lacking in most diets. Especially people buying into the processed low fat high carb nonsense. Replacing natural fats with processed sugars and starches is about as stupid as it gets.


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## Mrs.Black (Jul 16, 2018)

Good point. I try to take in enough protein daily while also getting my greens and fruits. I'm not big on the breads. I have found it has impacted my mood and energy level overall.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

We make bread with soy protein powder in place of some of the flour. Jam packed with protein. Very calorically dense, so not something you want to slice and make two baloney sandwiches with on a regular basis. But good for a small slice of bread with other food.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Won't get a argument out of me,I love my meat


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Oregon1986 said:


> Won't get a argument out of me,I love my meat


I agree. No need for me to add protein powder or such to anything. I get all the protein I need form regular old food.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Very difficult to get "all you need" from "regular food". Not impossible, but very difficult. Takes a lot of planning. Regular food is sadly lacking in protein, or if not lacking in protein, bundled with other nutrients that make it very easy to consume too many calories in the quest for enough protein. This is probably the biggest challenge to weight loss, satiety, and all the issues related to nutrition. Very overlooked and misunderstood though.

Meat is good. If your weight is right where it needs to be, you can probably satisfy a lot of your protein requirements with red meat. If you need to lose weight, better stick to rabbit, white poultry meat and things like that. Eggs are good. If you are where you need to be, you can probably eat a few eggs for protein. If you are trying to lose weight, you probably need to throw the yolks away. Beans are good, but lots of carbs. Dairy products are good sources of protein, but can have a lot of fat and sugar attached.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Eggs are great if you are dieting. Fat and protein both what more could you ask for.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

You can get enough protein from broccoli or spinach, IF you eat enough calories of it. That is just hard to do as its very low calorie. Thus you need oily seed or treenuts that are high calorie, yet still have lot nutrition.

You eat as close to nature as possible and get enough calories, you will not have to consider protein content. Its when you get duped/marketed into the "better life through chemistry" that you get into trouble. Humans are omnivores and opportunistic as to what makes itself available. Humans can live on roadkill or nuts and berries. Or even grain if thats all they can afford. But they are designed to eat natural, not factory food.

I'd say earliest con job was when humans stopped hunting and gathering, and settled to the big cities for more protection and higher income, then find out the only food they can afford as worker slaves of the local aristocracy is grain or grain byproducts.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

HJ; I tend to agree with you. I learned early on that I was a carnivore with a taste for greens, potatoes, corn, tomatoes, beans, tree nuts, all the fruits.
My base is meat with all the fat on it--I do not want my steaks trimmed and a greasy hamburger suits me fine. 

If you want to lose weight you have to cut caloric intake or increase metabolic rate---since most of us cannot do much about increasing metabolism cutting the intake is our one choice. 

Losing weight or just living, a balanced diet is crucial.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

HermitJohn said:


> Actually protein is least important thing to worry about. You get enough calories of NATURAL non-factory food, you get enough protein, simple as that. Healthy fat is what keeps you feeling full longer and what is lacking in most diets. Especially people buying into the processed low fat high carb nonsense. Replacing natural fats with processed sugars and starches is about as stupid as it gets.


So wrong. Obvious that you have never tracked your food. Obvious that you did not read the article as well. Lack of protein is what makes people crave food in most cases, and most "natural", "healthy", or whatever other feelgood buzzword you want to attach to your food, is sadly lacking in protein. As far as getting enough calories, this is a weight loss forum, the problem most often associated with the need for weight loss is getting too many calories. To remedy this, there needs to be caloric restriction. Add caloric restriction to a diet plan, and you are almost certain to not be getting enough protein, unless you do some very careful planning and tracking. Then you are one of these fat people with no muscle, that complains about sore joints, that claims they can't exercise. Your lack of muscle will change your natural metabolism into the kind that looks at food and gains fat. This is why protein is important, and even more important if you are trying to lose weight.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

It is quite possible to eat a diet of processed food, ice cream, restaurant pizza, and whatever else you desire, and be quite healthy and fit. It will require calorie tracking, and most likely protein supplementation. Eating too much "healthy" food will make you very unhealthy. There is no "clean" food. Most of it grows in dirt or water that you wouldn't want to drink, and it all turns to poo. Most of the clean, healthy, natural, etc. is pure market hype with a little class warfare thrown in. Everything is a chemical. Your body is chock full of chemicals, and wouldn't function without them. Evil processed food has one advantage over all the other stuff, it has this thing on it called a label. It allows you to very conveniently keep track of all the things you want to keep track of, for real or imagined reasons. If you read them carefully, you will likely notice vast differences between foodstuffs.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> So wrong. Obvious that you have never tracked your food. Obvious that you did not read the article as well. Lack of protein is what makes people crave food in most cases, and most "natural", "healthy", or whatever other feelgood buzzword you want to attach to your food, is sadly lacking in protein. As far as getting enough calories, this is a weight loss forum, the problem most often associated with the need for weight loss is getting too many calories. To remedy this, there needs to be caloric restriction. Add caloric restriction to a diet plan, and you are almost certain to not be getting enough protein, unless you do some very careful planning and tracking. Then you are one of these fat people with no muscle, that complains about sore joints, that claims they can't exercise. Your lack of muscle will change your natural metabolism into the kind that looks at food and gains fat. This is why protein is important, and even more important if you are trying to lose weight.


Your perspective. I have mentioned after I went low carb, I lost 50 pound WITHOUT counting calories or limiting food intake in any other way. Carbs dont trigger the "hey stupid, stop eating" message. Dietary fat does. I havent increased or worried about protein in any way shape or form.

And contrary to your simplistic notions of high protein being necessary, eating lot protein just makes your body convert that excess to blood glucose. The only thing your body cant convert to blood glucose is dietary fat. 

And actually after going low carb, I still get aches and pains from over exertion, but they go away overnight. No sore joints. Amazing huh?


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> It is quite possible to eat a diet of processed food, ice cream, restaurant pizza, and whatever else you desire, and be quite healthy and fit. It will require calorie tracking, and most likely protein supplementation. Eating too much "healthy" food will make you very unhealthy. There is no "clean" food. Most of it grows in dirt or water that you wouldn't want to drink, and it all turns to poo. Most of the clean, healthy, natural, etc. is pure market hype with a little class warfare thrown in. Everything is a chemical. Your body is chock full of chemicals, and wouldn't function without them. Evil processed food has one advantage over all the other stuff, it has this thing on it called a label. It allows you to very conveniently keep track of all the things you want to keep track of, for real or imagined reasons. If you read them carefully, you will likely notice vast differences between foodstuffs.


Yep, just drink the kool-aid, literally..... LOL


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> It is quite possible to eat a diet of processed food, ice cream, restaurant pizza, and whatever else you desire, and be quite healthy and fit. It will require calorie tracking, and most likely protein supplementation. Eating too much "healthy" food will make you very unhealthy. There is no "clean" food. Most of it grows in dirt or water that you wouldn't want to drink, and it all turns to poo. Most of the clean, healthy, natural, etc. is pure market hype with a little class warfare thrown in. Everything is a chemical. Your body is chock full of chemicals, and wouldn't function without them. Evil processed food has one advantage over all the other stuff, it has this thing on it called a label. It allows you to very conveniently keep track of all the things you want to keep track of, for real or imagined reasons. If you read them carefully, you will likely notice vast differences between foodstuffs.


I was going to respond in detail but I don't think it is worth it. It's good, it's bad, its evil, it's angelic. Just not worth the effort when all you want to talk about is calories and not health.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

[QUOTE="Oxankle, post: 8082704, member: 7249"

If you want to lose weight you have to cut caloric intake or increase metabolic rate---since most of us cannot do much about increasing metabolism cutting the intake is our one choice.[/QUOTE]

But all of us CAN increase our metabolic rate. It is quite easy. Simply increase lean muscle mass. That's all there is to it. Can't be done without protein. Where it becomes hard to do is when a lifetime of on again off again crash dieting without regard to protein intake leaves someone horribly muscle deficient to the point of causing joint problems.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> [QUOTE="Oxankle, post: 8082704, member: 7249"
> 
> If you want to lose weight you have to cut caloric intake or increase metabolic rate---since most of us cannot do much about increasing metabolism cutting the intake is our one choice.
> 
> But all of us CAN increase our metabolic rate. It is quite easy. Simply increase lean muscle mass. That's all there is to it. Can't be done without protein. Where it becomes hard to do is when a lifetime of on again off again crash dieting without regard to protein intake leaves someone horribly muscle deficient to the point of causing joint problems.


No, not all of us can. We can only have so much muscle without looking like a muscle bound hulk. Many can't exercise in the way others can. Many have health problems that don't allow them to eat elevated amounts of protein.[/QUOTE]


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> But all of us CAN increase our metabolic rate. It is quite easy. Simply increase lean muscle mass. That's all there is to it. Can't be done without protein. Where it becomes hard to do is when a lifetime of on again off again crash dieting without regard to protein intake leaves someone horribly muscle deficient to the point of causing joint problems.


High carb diet decreases metabolic rate. And when you restrict calories using high carb diet, your body decreases metabolic rate even more. Your body just goes into low metabolic starvation mode to conserve body fat to get you through its perceived famine.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

HermitJohn said:


> High carb diet decreases metabolic rate. And when you restrict calories using high carb diet, your body decreases metabolic rate even more. Your body just goes into low metabolic starvation mode to conserve body fat to get you through its perceived famine.


That is why most enlightened people don't subscribe to a high carb diet, they use a balanced diet to achieve fitness goals. Most of the successful ones use diet breaks, or some form of cut and bulk cycle to combat the metabolic responses you describe. All the while increasing lean muscle mass, the real key to tweaking your metabolism, and achievable by anyone, and totally possible to do without looking like a "muscle bound hulk", although "muscle bound hulk" is nature's design, and the pinnacle of fitness. Increasing ANY amount of lean muscle mass is a good thing, how far you go with it is your decision.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Your body will do the exact same thing on a high fat/low calorie diet, regardless of what Mercola, Natural News, or a host of other quack doctors that make a living selling books to fat people instead of practicing medicine may have told you. Enlightened people eat a balanced diet.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> Enlightened people eat a balanced diet.





barnbilder said:


> It is quite possible to eat a diet of processed food, ice cream, restaurant pizza, and whatever else you desire, and be quite healthy and fit.


Yep, apparently a balanced diet of "proccessed food, ice cream, restaurant pizza, and whatever else you desire....." as long as you have an excess of protein! And lock yourself in a cage to keep from raiding the refrigerator.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> Your body will do the exact same thing on a high fat/low calorie diet, regardless of what Mercola, Natural News, or a host of other quack doctors that make a living selling books to fat people instead of practicing medicine may have told you. Enlightened people eat a balanced diet.


But high fat, low carb diet means I dont have to count calories, or lock myself in a cage to keep from 'snacking' , my body does it automagically. But if you insist on doing it the hard way.... just keep drinking the kool-aid!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

ROFLMAO


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> Enlightened people eat a balanced diet.


Yes they do.

Only, what is a balanced, healthy diet for you is not really a balanced diet for my older, diabetic self who is crippled with MS. You CAN build more muscle: I cannot. I have done as much as I can, there.

From what you have said, you are on a diet that is appropriate for the average person. Excellent. I salute your common sense! I seriously do!

Since I am not average, my diet will be slightly different.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

HermitJohn said:


> But high fat, low carb diet means I dont have to count calories, or lock myself in a cage to keep from 'snacking' , my body does it automagically. But if you insist on doing it the hard way.... just keep drinking the kool-aid!


I enjoy kool-aid. With sugar in it while shoveling in mashed potatoes and white bread. And I look fabulous.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> I enjoy kool-aid. With sugar in it while shoveling in mashed potatoes and white bread. And I look fabulous.


Why are you mocking those trying to lose weight when you are not?


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> I enjoy kool-aid. With sugar in it while shoveling in mashed potatoes and white bread. And I look fabulous.


As far as you know.....


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Why are you mocking those trying to lose weight when you are not?


Because I used to be one of them. I believed the same untruths and made the same mistakes.It makes me very angry to think that it is so easy to be fit instead of fat and that there are so many derailed trains of thought impeding the path to fitness.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> Because I used to be one of them. I believed the same untruths and made the same mistakes.It makes me very angry to think that it is so easy to be fit instead of fat and that there are so many derailed trains of thought impeding the path to fitness.


How is your mocking helping them? You don't need to lose weight. Seems pretty cruel to me.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I'm not trying to lose weight but am working on muscle gain. There is no way I would fuel my body with anything but the most nutritious foods possible. Food is fuel. I probably take in more carbs than some here but they are things like oatmeal and sweet potatoes. As an addition to protein intake I use whey protein. No chemicals, additives or processed foods. Food is fuel.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Trying to lose weight versus successful at losing weight. Two different things. Not mocking anyone, just their methods. Everybody that is on here handing out stellar advice says they lost this much or that much, and are evidently still on a diet. Where are the people that have reached their goals, refined those goals and are reaching new, never before considered attainable, goals? Those people have the advice you need. Those are the people that helped me. Sometimes they seem ugly, but they're not. They realize how hard it is to be where they are at and it angers them when people write it off as, "lucky genes", or some such. It also angers them when people parade out the latest fad diet, or the tiredest misconceptions, over and over, that fly in the face of everything that they know to be true because of their hard work.


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## Txyogagirl (Jul 4, 2018)

HermitJohn said:


> You can get enough protein from broccoli or spinach, IF you eat enough calories of it. That is just hard to do as its very low calorie. Thus you need oily seed or treenuts that are high calorie, yet still have lot nutrition.
> 
> You eat as close to nature as possible and get enough calories, you will not have to consider protein content. Its when you get duped/marketed into the "better life through chemistry" that you get into trouble. Humans are omnivores and opportunistic as to what makes itself available. Humans can live on roadkill or nuts and berries. Or even grain if thats all they can afford. But they are designed to eat natural, not factory food.
> 
> I'd say earliest con job was when humans stopped hunting and gathering, and settled to the big cities for more protection and higher income, then find out the only food they can afford as worker slaves of the local aristocracy is grain or grain byproducts.


I just live by one thing if you can’t grow it or kill it don’t eat it. If it has a label it’s probably bad if it has dirt it’s probably good if you can’t eat the plan u pick for the rest of your life it’s probably bad. It’s a way of life to just not eat package food sure some stuff come in packages homemade jelly n a jar or potatoes n a bag peanuts in a bag etc but if your eating something with bright colors on the box and more ingredients than organs in your body that’s a serious issue. Just my thoughts everyone is entitled to their own best of luck to everyone out there doing whatever they may be doing


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> Where are the people that have reached their goals, refined those goals and are reaching new, never before considered attainable, goals? Those people have the advice you need.


Right here. Me. I maintained my weight loss for decades, while tailoring my diet to my own health needs.

I repeat: tailoring my diet to my own health needs. I do have some.

I am here as a moderator and an RN, and yes I have some knowledge of diets that comes from both my own experience with weight loss and from studying the diets that people with various health problems must go on.

Did you know that people with kidney problems often must go on a reduced protein diet? Or that many diabetic people *MUST* eat a bedtime snack to prevent their bodies from first allowing their blood sugars to drop too low overnight, and then over reacting by releasing a big slug of glucose into their systems? I *DO* know these things. I studied them and I was tested on them. I rarely recommend any particular diet because I know that I am not the equal of a nutritionalist, and many people here have seen one.

I have not heard one person here blame their weight on "bad genes". I HAVE heard several say that the usual weight loss diet had to be modified in order to accommodate their own health problems. This is legitimate. A diabetic who wishes to lose weight must not ONLY reduce their calorie intake, they must also respect their bodies' limitations regarding carbs and the timing of those meals. Ditto for many people who have OTHER illnesses

All diets that work include either fewer calories and/or burning more calories. For many people with health problems that is a beginning, not an end. The diet that you have been on an successfully lost weight on, for some of us, is a starting point. If we do not metabolize fat correctly we must change the fat content of the diet. If we do not metabolize carbs correctly we must change the carbs. If we have kidney problems we must alter the protein or we WILL make ourselves sick. Etc.

And that is why many of us will not embrace your diet. While it as obviously worked for you, it would make some of us literally sick.

And, you might not want to hear this, but if a person is losing weight on a high-fat diet, as long as they are meeting their bodies' requirements that is a GOOD thing, just as you changing your diet to something that works for you is a good thig.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

barnbilder said:


> I enjoy kool-aid. With sugar in it while shoveling in mashed potatoes and white bread. And I look fabulous.


Omg lol


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Terri said:


> Right here. Me. I maintained my weight loss for decades, while tailoring my diet to my own health needs.
> 
> I repeat: tailoring my diet to my own health needs. I do have some.
> 
> ...


"My diet" would not make anyone sick, and would achieve weight loss for anyone on it. "My diet" That is because "my diet" is flexible, and can make allowances for any of the health situations you have described and many others. 

Glad to see that we agree, there are only two ways to lose weight, either a reduction in calories eaten, or an increase in calories burned.

It is incredibly hard to quantify how many calories you are burning. Sure there are cute little step counters and things, but as you lose weight, the amount of weight you are carrying gets lower, and as you build muscle, you don't have to work as hard. Walking, in the grand scheme of things, burns barely more calories than sleeping. Very hard to quantify. Any increase is good, but it loses effectiveness as weight is lost, so intensity must increase to sustain weight loss, and it can get into the realm of ain't nobody got time for that.

That leaves the single best tool for planned weight loss as caloric reduction. Very easy to keep track of, no matter what food sources you are putting in, only requires simple measuring devices and patience. If you want fat, eat fat, if you want carbs, eat carbs, if your kidneys are shot, limit protein. 

For the vast majority of people that might be reading this, whose kidneys aren't toast, it would be very helpful for them to try to get enough protein, or possibly more than enough by some metrics, to aid in weight loss and hunger suppression during weight loss. That was the topic of this thread, and there was a very informative article at the beginning outlining some reasons why.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> "My diet" would not make anyone sick, and would achieve weight loss for anyone on it. "My diet" That is because "my diet" is flexible, and can make allowances for any of the health situations you have described and many others.


Where is the flexibility in your diet? You have scolded people for eating too much fat, for eating too few carbs, for not eating ice cream, and most of all for not counting the calories. I do not see ANY flexibility.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

If your diet doesn't allow ice cream, it is not flexible. Not flexible means not sustainable. Not counting calories means it really isn't a diet at all, just a list of good foods and bad foods. There is no bad food that makes people fat. Good food can make people just as fat as bad food. Being fat is not healthy, it's a good way to screw up your body, like burning out your kidneys so you can't eat protein. Don't be fat, count your calories. It is the only way you can be sure of maintaining a caloric deficit, the surest path to weight loss.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

barnbilder said:


> If your diet doesn't allow ice cream, it is not flexible. Not flexible means not sustainable. Not counting calories means it really isn't a diet at all, just a list of good foods and bad foods. There is no bad food that makes people fat. Good food can make people just as fat as bad food. Being fat is not healthy, it's a good way to screw up your body, like burning out your kidneys so you can't eat protein. Don't be fat, count your calories. It is the only way you can be sure of maintaining a caloric deficit, the surest path to weight loss.


I think you are full of bologna


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> If your diet doesn't allow ice cream, it is not flexible. Not flexible means not sustainable. Not counting calories means it really isn't a diet at all, just a list of good foods and bad foods.


In your opinion.

I have known people who were NOT on a flexible diet, but they followed it because their bodies needed them to. It was sustainable for them. They had to make it sustainable if they were to live and so they did sustain it. Never assume you know what other people are capable of.

Also there are ways of keeping track of what you eat that does not include counting calories. You prefer counting calories. Fine. I prefer counting exchanges. Many people people measure their foods instead. And, some people say that they do not count or measure but from what they said they were keenly aware of how many calories they had eaten.

You prefer counting calories. Fine. But there are other choices.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Oregon1986 said:


> I think you are full of bologna


Right now I am full of cheesecake. You people seem to be devoid of any desire to better yourselves. What passes for authority, education, experience, and knowledge is truly sad. Not surprising with brains ravaged by bad diet, but sad. Peace out, people who don't want to be healthy.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> Right now I am full of cheesecake. You people seem to be devoid of any desire to better yourselves. What passes for authority, education, experience, and knowledge is truly sad. Not surprising with brains ravaged by bad diet, but sad. Peace out, people who don't want to be healthy.


You keep making statements that have no reality. I eat Keto and cheesecake is my favorite Keto desert. Keto cheesecake has tons of fat and fuels my brain in a wonderful way.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> Right now I am full of cheesecake. You people seem to be devoid of any desire to better yourselves. What passes for authority, education, experience, and knowledge is truly sad. Not surprising with brains ravaged by bad diet, but sad. Peace out, people who don't want to be healthy.


Barnbilder that was a joke. A pun.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Keto is a dumb decision for most people, and will cause more problems than it will solve, unless they are tracking. If they are tracking, then it's not a keto diet, it's a flex diet, with preference given to fats. Otherwise it is just more herd mentality believing in things that are too good to be true. Most of the benefits of the keto diet are initially a result of water loss (carbohydrates have a lot of water, hydra is part of their name, big clue there), later the benefits are most likely due to the increased protein which is usually a side effect of adding more fat to the diet. If you are not tracking, you don't know what you are doing, and have no basis for any nutritional advice. Person on Keto- "I eats me a dollop of butter and some avocodo and I lost weight." Is that a gram of butter or 17 pounds? How tall are you and how much do you weigh? Most people lose weight every day, if they don't they need carbs, in the form of fiber. I got tired of failing, so no keto for me thank you, and I will continuously point out what a poor choice it is to for incorporating the keto diet without tracking calories, because you can't replace a food that if 4 calories per gram with one that is 9 calories per gram and intuitively consume that and come out ahead. Been there, done that, see people failing all the time, hear testimonials on several fitness pages I belong to that aren't completely jam packed with a bunch of Mercola disciples and fat people that worship the magical Keto unicorns that will come and zap fat from their bodies if they are devout enough.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> Keto is a dumb decision for most people, and will cause more problems than it will solve, unless they are tracking. If they are tracking, then it's not a keto diet, it's a flex diet, with preference given to fats. Otherwise it is just more herd mentality believing in things that are too good to be true. Most of the benefits of the keto diet are initially a result of water loss (carbohydrates have a lot of water, hydra is part of their name, big clue there), later the benefits are most likely due to the increased protein which is usually a side effect of adding more fat to the diet. If you are not tracking, you don't know what you are doing, and have no basis for any nutritional advice. Person on Keto- "I eats me a dollop of butter and some avocodo and I lost weight." Is that a gram of butter or 17 pounds? How tall are you and how much do you weigh? Most people lose weight every day, if they don't they need carbs, in the form of fiber. I got tired of failing, so no keto for me thank you, and I will continuously point out what a poor choice it is to for incorporating the keto diet without tracking calories, because you can't replace a food that if 4 calories per gram with one that is 9 calories per gram and intuitively consume that and come out ahead. Been there, done that, see people failing all the time, hear testimonials on several fitness pages I belong to that aren't completely jam packed with a bunch of Mercola disciples and fat people that worship the magical Keto unicorns that will come and zap fat from their bodies if they are devout enough.


Simply your opinion, correct? You know what opinions are like, right? Everybody has one.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

painterswife said:


> You keep making statements that have no reality. I eat Keto and cheesecake is my favorite Keto desert. Keto cheesecake has tons of fat and fuels my brain in a wonderful way.


The fruity pebbles box only had crumbs in it so I just grabbed the cheesecake. All food is fuel.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Folks, we already HAD the argument about which diet is the only one, true way to weight loss and we are not going to recreate it now. I am going to close this thread for a bit and when folks do come back I expect them to have their senses of humor firmly intact.

And, I am going to make a new rule. There are several diets out there that have been POVE to work, as long as you use it the way that they are supposed to be used. From now on I will say that here will be no more insisting that a diet cannot possibly work when it has been already proven*TO*work. That includes both the diet that Barbilder is on as well as the keto diet: both have been proven to work, and not by shysters either.

You folks can post on this thread once tempers have cooled a bit.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> The fruity pebbles box only had crumbs in it so I just grabbed the cheesecake. All food is fuel.


Yes, all food is fuel. All food however is not healthy. Also healthy for one person is not healthy for another. Your simplification of protein being what is needed is not accurate for everyone. Your put downs of others choices is not really beneficial to your goal of helping others.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

The thing that I love best about moderating this forum is how much you folks care about each other. Even when you are bickering the caring and concern comes through loud and clear.

Here is how we are going to communicate more and bicker less.

1. Yelling at somebody never convinced anybody of anything. Please talk more and yell less.

2. Some people are food addicts. It happens.

I can personally tell you that the sensation that high blood sugar can give *CAN* be addicting and that it took me a year of hard work for me to “kick the habit” and stop craving the feeling. It would be so very easy to indulge myself and lie about it, it *IS* what addicts of any sort do, but I kicked the habit anyways. Please remember that sometimes dieters lie about what they have and have not eaten: I was sorely tempted to do it myself.

When a dieter says that they have followed the diet and did not lose weight it might or might not be true. Because food can be addicting and sometimes addicts lie. Nobody wants to say that they are out of control

3. There are a great many good diets out there, and the REALLY good ones have stood the test of time and are often recommended by your family doctor.

That does not mean that every diet is suited for every person: the low fat diet that has helped uncounted number of people gave me blood tests that resulted in many urgent messages on my answering machine AND urgent calls to my next of kin AND urgent messages from the pharmacy. And all of the messages said “Call me now it is urgent”! And it *WAS* the diet that messed up the blood tests: everything went away when I was put on the diabetic diet. Not every diet is good for every person. For me the low-fat diet did not work but the diabetic diet did. Just because a particular diet did not help your Aunt Tillie does not mean that it might not help you.

Choose a reputable diet and make it yours.

Lastly, 4. Yelling at anybody never convinced anybody of anything.

So, when somebody says that they lost weight on diet such-and-so, just accept that they did. People get angry when you accuse them of lying. And, just because a particular diet was a disaster for you and your best friend Bob does not mean that it is not perfect for one of the 6 billion other people on this world. So, instead of attacking that particular diet- which simply might not have been a good fit for you- let it go. Oh, you can still point out that the diet they are on sounds like it may be low in calcium, or protein, or vitamin C, or whatever but remember that they probably did not tell you everything. They might be on a multivitamin or whatever but simply did not think to tell you that.

Again, the best thing about this forum is how much you folks care about each other.

I am going to re-open this thread now. While you may brag on the diet you are on, please do not disrespect the other person’s diet. While it might be actively bad for you it might be exactly what the other person needs.

This is a good thread and protein is a valuable subject. Please be polite so that this thread stays open. I do not particularly wish to close it again.


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