# Why are so many people dying?



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

This is from the CEO of an Indiana based life insurance company and he says other insurance companies across the country are seeing the same thing. Death rates of those aged 18-64 are up 40% and they are not all COVID deaths. The head of the Indiana Hospital assn. says the same things are happening in hospitals. Again, not due to COVID cases. ICUs in Indiana are down to under 10% available ICU beds but COVID cases are only taking 37% of occupied ICU beds. He said the current number of hospitalized patients is now higher than it was before the COVID vaccine was introduced.

Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64 | Indiana | thecentersquare.com

Let's remember, these deaths are nearly all from people working who have group life insurance policies through their employers, so it is not those in terrible health unable to work. Could it be due to stress from the lockdowns? He said it is happening from 'multiple conditions', so could it be due to how the vaccines harm some people? Could it be from delayed hospitalizations due to hospitals focusing solely on COVID for so many months?


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Fentanyl would account for the increase in deaths. Understaffed hospitals would account for the lack of beds.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

Lots of hart attacks here don’t know seams fishy


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

barnbilder said:


> Fentanyl would account for the increase in deaths. Understaffed hospitals would account for the lack of beds.


But the hospital guy said hospitals were being flooded with patients "with many different conditions". I'm sure they could recognize drug overdoses. I do know fentanyl deaths are up but I think this is something else. Staff shortages could account for the ICU bed part but he also said they have more hospital patients than before the pandemic began.


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## bman (Jan 3, 2022)

poppy said:


> This is from the CEO of an Indiana based life insurance company and he says other insurance companies across the country are seeing the same thing. Death rates of those aged 18-64 are up 40% and they are not all COVID deaths. The head of the Indiana Hospital assn. says the same things are happening in hospitals. Again, not due to COVID cases. ICUs in Indiana are down to under 10% available ICU beds but COVID cases are only taking 37% of occupied ICU beds. He said the current number of hospitalized patients is now higher than it was before the COVID vaccine was introduced.
> 
> Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64 | Indiana | thecentersquare.com
> 
> Let's remember, these deaths are nearly all from people working who have group life insurance policies through their employers, so it is not those in terrible health unable to work. Could it be due to stress from the lockdowns? He said it is happening from 'multiple conditions', so could it be due to how the vaccines harm some people? Could it be from delayed hospitalizations due to hospitals focusing solely on COVID for so many months?











The testimonies project | Testimonies after Covid-19 vaccination


The Testimonies Project was created to provide a platform for all those who were affected after getting the covid-19 vaccines, and to make sure their voices are heard, since they are not heard in the Israeli media.We hope this project will encourage more and more people to tell their story.




www.vaxtestimonies.org


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

bman said:


> The testimonies project | Testimonies after Covid-19 vaccination
> 
> 
> The Testimonies Project was created to provide a platform for all those who were affected after getting the covid-19 vaccines, and to make sure their voices are heard, since they are not heard in the Israeli media.We hope this project will encourage more and more people to tell their story.
> ...


That could be part of it too. I really have no idea but it is unusual whatever it is.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Wellbuilt said:


> Lots of hart attacks here don’t know seams fishy


Could be from lack of "fishy" and more attributable to Big Mac'y


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

I'm going to toss depression into the mix. 
Depression is insidious as it causes otherwise healthy behaving people to take on unhealthy physical behaviors which can lead to disease and death. It suppresses your immune system, enables chronic inflammation which leads to many negative physical issues.

Depression hurts the immune system

_Ohio State University researchers have found an exaggerated inflammatory response to an immune challenge among 47 people feeling stressed and suffering subclinical depression. Following a single flu shot, their bodies overproduced the immune system component interleukin-6, a marker of long-term inflammation.
Chronic inflammation is linked to cardiovascular disease, osteoporosis, arthritis, diabetes and periodontal disease among others._

Increase in Depression + increase in long term stress =? increase in early death


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

Everything related to covid that can't be tracked is most likely the reasons for higher death rates, suchas; stress, mental illness from isolation, increased drinking, increased drug use, increased bad eating habits, decreased activity, depression, and no face to face interaction with friends, or family.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

omg the elephant in the room
it'll come to light


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

poppy said:


> Could it be from delayed hospitalizations due to hospitals focusing solely on COVID for so many months?


That would be my guess. At least my main guess. I personally know a lot more people who had medical checkups and procedures delayed during the lock down than people who actually got sick from Covid. Even a couple of people who were undergoing chemo or were scheduled to undergo chemo that had it cancelled or delayed. One death on the operating table this past year during an emergency bypass that was an emergency because it had been delayed too long.

A lot of stupid going on.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> omg the elephant in the room
> it'll come to light


Are you suggesting the shot?


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

someone took the time to put this together and someone else shared it to another forum. I thought it was relevant to this thread. 
no matter what the reason, it's sad.









Athletes Collapsing This Is Supposed To Be Rare


Athletes Collapsing This Is Supposed To Be Rare




www.bitchute.com


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> Are you suggesting the shot?


no.
why are you putting words in my mouth?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> no.
> why are you putting words in my mouth?


You left so much unsaid. I was trying to draw out what you were thinking, but not saying.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> someone took the time to put this together and someone else shared it to another forum. I thought it was relevant to this thread.
> no matter what the reason, it's sad.
> 
> 
> ...


That is how my very fit friend went. No warning. Bam! Gone


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> You left so much unsaid. I was trying to draw out what you were thinking, but not saying.


I am thinking people will to come to understanding through their own process. That's the only way. Not by me sharing what I think the problem is. People have to remember how to use their own intuition. It's obviously a big thing in the room of humanity right now, that's what I meant by the elephant. 

I am so sorry about your friend. It is very, very sad. There has to be a common denominator, right? 

It's nuts.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> Are you suggesting the shot?


on second thought, are you?
that was your first thought when you read my post that didn't mention a shot?
.....


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Hate to continue the Covid discussion and not trying to push an agenda, but my sister is an ER Nurse at a smaller hospital in northern, IN and claims they are getting lots of younger folks coming in with Covid having difficulty breathing, etc., mostly unvaxed.

She also says there Fentanyl OD's are a serious problem and resulting in lots of deaths.

Not too sure I believe the 40% increase stat?


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## Big_John (Dec 1, 2021)

“Just to give you an idea of how bad that is, a three-sigma or a one-in-200-year catastrophe would be 10% increase over pre-pandemic,” he said. “So 40% is just unheard of.”


.........


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Mish said:


> I personally know a lot more people who had medical checkups and procedures delayed during the lock down than people who actually got sick from Covid.


On my doctor's advice, I'm putting off minor elective surgery due to the pandemic. I'm not going to die without it, and I won't become depressed or strung-out on drugs. If the local hospitals are full of omicron patients, and I'm told that they are, it just makes sense to put off minor procedures regardless of covid immunization status.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Spike protein whether from Covid-19, the mRNA vaccines, or the viral vector vaccines.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> on second thought, are you?
> that was your first thought when you read my post that didn't mention a shot?
> .....


I absolutely am


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Nevada said:


> On my doctor's advice, I'm putting off minor elective surgery due to the pandemic. I'm not going to die without it, and I won't become depressed or strung-out on drugs. If the local hospitals are full of omicron patients, and I'm told that they are, it just makes sense to put off minor procedures regardless of covid immunization status.


That's fine, and that's your choice, but I know people who had non-minor non-elective procedures and checkups delayed or cancelled, not by their choice, because of the "pandemic."


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

I do the vital records for our town report and this year we had 45 deaths. Last year was 16. Average age was 72.22.

I believe only one was Covid related, a man who was 50.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

My brother lost a good friend due to a sudden heart attack last year. I don't know the vax status but my brother believes he was vaxxed.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> On my doctor's advice, I'm putting off minor elective surgery due to the pandemic. I'm not going to die without it, and I won't become depressed or strung-out on drugs. If the local hospitals are full of omicron patients, and I'm told that they are, it just makes sense to put off minor procedures regardless of covid immunization status.


That's on your doctor's advice though. Many others that have never been diagnosed yet but still have a disease could not get in to see one last year. 

Now this year they could but the disease had already progressed into something terminal. 

So do you understand what they are saying now? They are not talking about elective surgery and nose jobs. They are talking heart disease and cancer and MS/MD kind of stuff.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

What if the largest experiment on human beings in history is a failure?


A report from an Indiana life insurance company raises serious concerns.




rwmalonemd.substack.com





*Robert W Malone MD, MS *
Inventor of mRNA & DNA vaccines, RNA as a drug. Scientist, physician, writer, podcaster, commentator and advocate. Believer in our fundamental freedom of free speech.



It is starting to look to me like the largest experiment on human beings in recorded history has failed. And, if this rather dry report from a senior Indiana life insurance executive holds true, then Reiner Fuellmich’s “Crimes against Humanity” push for convening new Nuremberg trials starts to look a lot less quixotic and a lot more prophetic.

AT A MINIMUM, based on my reading, one has to conclude that if this report holds and is confirmed by others in the dry world of life insurance actuaries, we have both a huge human tragedy and a profound public policy failure of the US Government and US HHS system to serve and protect the citizens that pay for this “service”.

IF this holds true, then the genetic vaccines so aggressively promoted have failed, and the clear federal campaign to prevent early treatment with lifesaving drugs has contributed to a massive, avoidable loss of life.

AT WORST, this report implies that the federal workplace vaccine mandates have driven what appear to be a true crime against humanity. Massive loss of life in (presumably) workers that have been forced to accept a toxic vaccine at higher frequency relative to the general population of Indiana.

FURTHERMORE, we have also been living through the most massive, globally coordinated propaganda and censorship campaign in the history of the human race. All major mass media and the social media technology companies have coordinated to stifle and suppress any discussion of the risks of the genetic vaccines AND/OR alternative early treatments.

IF this report holds true, there must be accountability. We are not just talking about running over the first amendment of the Constitution of the United States and grinding it into the mud with an army of artificial intelligence-powered heavy infantry. This article reads like a dry description of an avoidable mass casualty event caused by a mandated experimental medical procedure. One for which all opportunities for the victims to have become self-informed about the potential risks have been methodically erased from both the internet and public awareness by an international corrupt cabal operating under the flag of the “Trusted News Initiative”. George Orwell must be spinning in his grave.

I hope I am wrong. I fear I am right.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> I absolutely am


wow, I am surprised TBH


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> wow, I am surprised TBH


I started suspecting it after my vaxxed friend died. Read that Dr. Malone article I just posted. I feel like I am in good company with my suspicions


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## Northof49 (Mar 3, 2018)

What is the one biggest factor that has changed from before?
Not Covid but "Experimental Covid vaccines" (Way more doses injected than people who actually got Covid)
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's usually a duck.

Vaccines are the most likely reason for the deaths. (100's of pro athletes suddenly dying should have alerted everyone to stop participating in this experiment, but people will continue this unless the dead are laying in the streets.)
No one wants to think for themselves anymore, they want to be told what to do. Even if it's those telling them what to do have proclaimed their plan to kill 89-90% of the world's population by 2030.

Get in line. Take your shots. I for one will never be a part of that plan.

That's the elephant in the room my friends.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Mish said:


> That's fine, and that's your choice, but I know people who had non-minor non-elective procedures and checkups delayed or cancelled, not by their choice, because of the "pandemic."


I see my primary care physician every 3 months whether I have an issue or not. The pandemic didn't change that. Interestingly, I've only seen her face once, and that was about 2 years ago. I'm not sure I would recognize her if I passed her on a sidewalk.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

*Why are so many people dying?*

I think it's necessary to ask where are so many people dying? Is it isolated to just USA or to 10 or 20 countries or is it happening in all 195 countries?

My speculation is that any excess number of unexplainable deaths is likely due to mass paranoia and hysteria whether people are vaccinated or not and regardless of how old they all are. Mass paranoia/hysteria --> mass anxiety --> mass depression --> mass inflammation --> sudden unexpected physical complications --> sudden death.

It could be a case of survival of only the fittest in both mind and body versus a case of mass hysteria culling out those who are seemingly fit but actually are not fit enough in mind and body and they're literally worrying themselves to death. They're doing it to themselves by mind over matter.

That's what I think it is. _If_ all of these unexpected, unexplained deaths are really happening. Frankly I wouldn't believe it's a real thing until I see the numbers for the whole world.

.


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## Docdubz (Aug 10, 2020)

Paumon said:


> *Why are so many people dying?*
> 
> I think it's necessary to ask where are so many people dying? Is it isolated to just USA or to 10 or 20 countries or is it happening in all 195 countries?


Very good point. Its certainly not happening where I am. But, every time I talk to someone I know living near austin or houston I hear about 2 or 3 new people that have died since I talked to them last. But then I have many friends and family in texas, florida, virginia and ny and i still can not say that I personally know anyone that has died since 2018. "Coincidentally" only a small handful of the people that I personally know have been vaccinated.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Paumon said:


> Mass paranoia/hysteria --> mass anxiety --> mass depression --> mass inflammation --> sudden unexpected physical complications --> sudden death.


We survived the terrorism paranoia/hysteria following 9/11. That's the worst I've ever seen it.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> We survived the terrorism paranoia/hysteria following 9/11. That's the worst I've ever seen it.


That is just not true of the people from the US. Maybe the people in Washington did. They are the ones that crafted your precious bill that your hated POTUS signed. 

The people though, they rallied around each other. Left, right and center finally agreed on something even if only for a short time. 

What dimension did you live in back then?


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

What we are seeing now is tenfold the terrorism that we saw on 9-11. The fact that some don't admit that is not surprising since they have a hand in current terrorist activities.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

After September 11, we had an easily identifiable foreign enemy. We now have covert domestic corporate and governmental terrorists.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> After September 11, we had an easily identifiable foreign enemy. We now have covert domestic corporate and governmental terrorists.


The kindest thing I can say is that the intel community might have been wrong. But I'd rather believe we were railroaded.

The biggest participants in 9/11 weren't people from Afghanistan or Iraq, they were mostly from Saudi Arabia and we remained friends. Go figure...


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

And yet today you willingly hop in the boxcar and thank your "friends" for shutting that big door and holding your suitcases for later.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> The kindest thing I can say is that the intel community might have been wrong. But I'd rather believe we were railroaded.
> 
> The biggest participants in 9/11 weren't people from Afghanistan or Iraq, they were mostly from Saudi Arabia and we remained friends. Go figure...


Why didn't all of these people from SA simply run their little terrorist band out of that country instead of Afghanistan?


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> What if the largest experiment on human beings in history is a failure?
> 
> 
> A report from an Indiana life insurance company raises serious concerns.
> ...


I’d bet everything I own that he’s right.

As a source, he’s got stellar credentials, and nothing to gain from people hearing his narrative.

Everything he’s saying precisely aligns with what the laymans’ guts of us skeptics have told us from the beginning. Dr. Malone’s narrative, if (when) proven to be true, will not be some unexpected bombshell discovery. It will be the confirmation of the “nut job conspiracy theory” that the all-too-rare intellectually honest among us have known was true all along.


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## Docdubz (Aug 10, 2020)

Farmerga said:


> Why didn't all of these people from SA simply run their little terrorist band out of that country instead of Afghanistan?


Because it actually involved people that you arent allowed to criticize.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Nevada said:


> We survived the terrorism paranoia/hysteria following 9/11. That's the worst I've ever seen it.


I think that's debatable. I'm still seeing unprecedented paranoia about terrorism happening in USA ever since 9/11 happened. Barnbilder and Alice have brought up good points.

So you take that all that pre-existing paranoia about current domestic terrorism and compound it with all the covid related hysteria and paranoia about your own government and about plots by China and blah blah blah - you end up with people over-loaded with anxiety and a sense of helplessness and uncertainty, not knowing who to trust, etc. ....... that all can lead to organ failures and deaths due to excessive anxiety.

And before somebody interjects about babies dying and saying babies don't have paranoia and anxiety - well babies are very sensitive to transmission of whatever it is their caregivers are stricken with and they can suffer from neglect because of their sick, anxious caregivers.

And don't be thinking that the effects of climate changes doesn't have a hand in putting additional strain on people's physical and emotional conditions. It does. I've seen with my own eyes what strains and anxieties people have been burdened with during all the climate emergencies we've had in my own province in the past couple of years.

We can all speculate and come up with more conspiracy theories until the cows come home but I think it will be another couple of years before we all have better answers and notions of the ramifications and consequences of covid and wherever it really came from and what really started it. I don't for one minute believe that it was a lab experiment that was deliberately released into the public, I believe it was all a natural consequence of human activities around the world.

.


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## Docdubz (Aug 10, 2020)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I’d bet everything I own that he’s right.
> 
> As a source, he’s got stellar credentials, and nothing to gain from people hearing his narrative.
> 
> Everything he’s saying precisely aligns with what the laymans’ guts of us skeptics have told us from the beginning. Dr. Malone’s narrative, if (when) proven to be true, will not be some unexpected bombshell discovery. It will be the confirmation of the “nut job conspiracy theory” that the all-too-rare intellectually honest among us have known was true all along.


Theres already certain social media influencers trying to rebrand it as "if you got it right it was just a lucky guess"


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I’d bet everything I own that he’s right.
> 
> As a source, he’s got stellar credentials, and nothing to gain from people hearing his narrative.
> 
> Everything he’s saying precisely aligns with what the laymans’ guts of us skeptics have told us from the beginning. Dr. Malone’s narrative, if (when) proven to be true, will not be some unexpected bombshell discovery. It will be the confirmation of the “nut job conspiracy theory” that the all-too-rare intellectually honest among us have known was true all along.


Nevada won't listen to Dr. Malone for the same reason a Southern Baptist won't study the Quran.


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## Docdubz (Aug 10, 2020)

barnbilder said:


> Nevada won't listen to Dr. Malone for the same reason a Southern Baptist won't study the Quran.


Not sure im following that analogy


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I studied it. I've studied most every major guidebook to god or his stand in that has been written.
It is hard to point out the best steakhouse in town when it is the only one you have ever been to.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

barnbilder said:


> Nevada won't listen to Dr. Malone for the same reason a Southern Baptist won't study the Quran.


It takes a lot of effort and discipline to avoid confirmation bias and seek information that could upset your narrative.

Explains how we end up in a situation just like this...


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

A lot of religions forbid following false prophets, graven images, and what not. Covidianism seems to be very much this way.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

All I can say is look this guy up before listeming to him.


HDRider said:


> What if the largest experiment on human beings in history is a failure?
> 
> 
> A report from an Indiana life insurance company raises serious concerns.
> ...





HDRider said:


> What if the largest experiment on human beings in history is a failure?
> 
> 
> A report from an Indiana life insurance company raises serious concerns.
> ...


The most gullible antivaxxers (that claim to be simply hesitant) in my world are all pushing Malone. As is Rogan.
Do your own research on this guy.
Look at his ready-for-15 minutes of fame appearance and dung eating grin.
Some of us can see through him. He is a charlatan.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

So right on cue, an ultra-religious zealot spouting hate speech and using derogatory terms to promote their religion.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> A lot of religions forbid following false prophets, graven images, and what not. Covidianism seems to be very much this way.


How do we know if a prophet is false?


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Nevada said:


> How do we know if a prophet is false?


I can't speak for your religion, but generally it is anybody that says anything that questions or threatens that religion. As in your case, when Dr. Malone makes the case that you are a child molester of the worst sort, I feel certain that you will make personal attacks upon his credibility, personal character, and use de-humanizing terms to refer to anyone who would associate with him, or agree with him. As we have already seen by one of your fellow parishioners in post#51.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> How do we know if a prophet is false?


Generally speaking, if they teach you to hate thy neighbor, it is likely they are a false prophet. We can get into details if you are really interested in the subject.


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## romysbaskets (Aug 29, 2009)

Well here is some possible reasons, some people put off surgeries, checkups, and other appts since they couldn't get them when the hospitals were full. This said, my husband needs to have a kidney removed due to a cancerous tumor inside....he also has low level prostate cancer. He has waited for a few reasons and one is due to COVID patients in the hospitals and felt he could wait Its also a fact he wanted to make sure others have beds for treatment! He had another scan and his results are that it has grown slightly...he will have a virtual interview with the Dr and then schedule his surgery. After he has recovered it will be time to address the prostate cancer. A friend of my sisters was afraid to go to the hospital and just died last night of something they could have saved her from!!! People are waiting and then some are dying when they get there. My husband may be affected adversely by waiting but we won't know til he has gotten his surgery. I put off my Dr appts but need to be screened for ALS markers since my twin died of it. I need foot surgery but have also put that off til hubby is handled....We both are fully vaccinated but no booster. To this day, all members of our family that were vaccinated had ZERO health affects at this time and have not gotten Covid. Those of the family not vaccinated mainly extended family have ALL GOTTEN COVID and now they have gotten Omicron. We have not gotten anything since being vaccinated, not a cold or any issues of any kind. There are 5 members of our family waiting for needed medical treatments and we are scheduling these now. I am sure there are other families like ours....Also its very stressful to live the way we all have for the past 2 years! Losing family, friends and loved ones.....it takes a toll and that can cause health issues. I know very lonely widows that are elderly not doing well with their isolation and dealing with the past two years...several friends are gone now. We lost a family member to Covid but one to Suicide from drug addiction, my twin to ALS, friends to Covid, car accident, and one to old age.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> How do we know if a prophet is false?


It's really easy to do. Go up to your local church, cult, gang, Lord of the Fly guy and question something they say. If they explain it to you calmly, they are probably legit. If they scream, punch or cut your head off, they are most likely false.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

mreynolds said:


> It's really easy to do. Go up to your local church, cult, gang, Lord of the Fly guy and question something they say. If they explain it to you calmly, they are probably legit. If they scream, punch or cut your head off, they are most likely false.


What if they use their influence to have you silenced?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

barnbilder said:


> What if they use their influence to have you silenced?


Same thing in my book.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

fireweed farm said:


> All I can say is look this guy up before listeming to him.
> 
> 
> The most gullible antivaxxers (that claim to be simply hesitant) in my world are all pushing Malone. As is Rogan.
> ...


You try to make it sound like Malone just crawled out of the woodwork to take advantage of the times.

Silly.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Can anyone share the data that confirms the death increase?

I have looked, and I am a pretty good ducker. I could not find the data


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Can anyone share the data that confirms the death increase?


I can't imagine a reference link that you would believe. You won't believe a reference link from news networks, government agencies, medical facilities, or even from the scientific community.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Nevada said:


> I can't imagine a reference link that you would believe. You won't believe a reference link from news networks, government agencies, medical facilities, or even from the scientific community.


Try me


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Do your research on the guy.
Robert Malone has credentials that most of those currently shilling for the government and pharma could only dream off.
He is receiving no money from this madness.
He is seeking no position.
He has stated he is sick of seeing what this has done to the standards and reputation of his profession.
He has no need for 15 minutes of fame. He has been at the top of his game for well over 30 years.
What is he selling? Fear? If so, he is way behind the curve on that one.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> Tes, do your research on the guy.
> Robert Malone has credentials that most of those currently shilling for the government and pharma could only dream off.
> He is receiving no money from this madness.
> He is seeking no position.
> ...


Again, I know all that

I am trying to walk the line between questioning the narrative, with data and evidence, and the ranting of a madman

Take this one thread. Incredible assertion. Literally beyond belief, literally.

The reason I give it credibility is because I have been lied to so often I am grasping with both hands for something to believe. I expect I am not alone in that.

Data would help. Where is the data to confirm or refute the claim? Someone in the media, someone somewhere has the data, and they are not being forthcoming. They either do not want to acknowledge the claim, or the assertion is damning

In a way, I almost envy the ones that go merrily down the trodden path.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Try me











Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated


President Trump and other conspiracy fantasists touted the fake claim that COVID death counts are exaggerated. But three kinds of evidence point to more than 350,000 deaths*




www.scientificamerican.com


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Nevada said:


> Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated
> 
> 
> President Trump and other conspiracy fantasists touted the fake claim that COVID death counts are exaggerated. But three kinds of evidence point to more than 350,000 deaths*
> ...


I tried.

Where in that article is ANYTHING to do with the claim in the OP?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I tried.
> 
> Where in that article is ANYTHING to do with the claim in the OP?


Unless you do your own survey you're going to have to rely on someone's data. All I'm suggesting is that you rely on the scientific and medical communities rather than politicians.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Nevada said:


> Unless you do your own survey you're going to have to rely on someone's data. All I'm suggesting is that you rely on the scientific and medical communities rather than politicians.


Right now I am looking for the number of people that died between the ages of 18 and 64 in 2021, 2020, and 2019. Show it to me if you can. I don't need your evangelizing. 

I think we have already established beyond any doubt that Covid deaths were overstated using wordplay.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated
> 
> 
> President Trump and other conspiracy fantasists touted the fake claim that COVID death counts are exaggerated. But three kinds of evidence point to more than 350,000 deaths*
> ...


It's very important to you to make things political.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

wr said:


> It's very important to you to make things political.


It's not his fault. His religion decrees it.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

barnbilder said:


> So right on cue, an ultra-religious zealot spouting hate speech and using derogatory terms to promote their religion.





tarbe said:


> You try to make it sound like Malone just crawled out of the woodwork to take advantage of the times.
> 
> Silly.


Feel free to dig deeper. That’s all I suggest.
It’s called keeping an open mind. Trust me, he isn’t 100% worthy of all this faith.
I will promise you Malone will end up rich and has already found a cult-like following, better than anything he would have received while “inventing mRNA vaccines” which he was just one of hundreds involved. He’s slimy to keep making the claim but those with blinders on don’t care.
But also feel free to lap it up, as you were.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

wr said:


> It's very important to you to make things political.


Interestingly, opinions about how we should respond to the pandemic run down political party lines. There's no denying that fact. I have some ideas about why that might be but I'm keeping those thoughts to myself.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

HDRider said:


> Right now I am looking for the number of people that died between the ages of 18 and 64 in 2021, 2020, and 2019. Show it to me if you can. I don't need your evangelizing.
> 
> I think we have already established beyond any doubt that Covid deaths were overstated using wordplay.


Yearly death rates in the US are generally not available for at least 2 years after the fact. I have no explanation of why that is the case in this day and age. Hospitals can give you their daily and yearly death rates just like insurance companies can but for some reason the federal government can't pull it off.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

poppy said:


> Yearly death rates in the US are generally not available for at least 2 years after the fact. I have no explanation of why that is the case in this day and age. Hospitals can give you their daily and yearly death rates just like insurance companies can but for some reason the federal government can't pull it off.


That is what makes this claim hard to prove or disprove. That makes me uncomfortable.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

barnbilder said:


> I can't speak for your religion, but generally it is anybody that says anything that questions or threatens that religion. As in your case, when Dr. Malone makes the case that you are a child molester of the worst sort, I feel certain that you will make personal attacks upon his credibility, personal character, and use de-humanizing terms to refer to anyone who would associate with him, or agree with him. As we have already seen by one of your fellow parishioners in post#51.


All I said was look him up and open your eyes for a minute. 
You lose all credibility calling me a parishioner. 
As others do parroting it. 
But carry on. Lap it up.

I keep an open mind and can change it. 
You and others here on the other hand have unquestioned faith in this guy- who’s the parishioner?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

fireweed farm said:


> I keep an open mind and can change it.
> You and others here on the other hand have unquestioned faith in this guy- who’s the parishioner?


Therein lies your problem. You are smart. We are dumb.

Who said they had unquestioned faith in him? What has been said is that he causes doubt in those that direct us. 

You are too arrogant to be honest.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

fireweed farm said:


> Feel free to dig deeper. That’s all I suggest.
> It’s called keeping an open mind. Trust me, he isn’t 100% worthy of all this faith.
> I will promise you Malone will end up rich and has already found a cult-like following, better than anything he would have received while “inventing mRNA vaccines” which he was just one of hundreds involved. He’s slimy to keep making the claim but those with blinders on don’t care.
> But also feel free to lap it up, as you were.


He certainly sounds more intelligent, and less unscrupulous than Faucci. Guy made himself a target, he is retirement age, has grandchildren to enjoy, a paid for horse farm, happy. He is sticking his neck out, way out. Something Faucci has never done. Well you might need a mask, maybe no mask, two masks, a jab and a mask, two jabs and no mask, three jabs and two masks. Certainly a lot more consistent than faucci. In fact, I can't find a single bad thing about the guy, other than what some religious zealots have to say about him, since he dared question their sacred tenets. If you have a list of bad things he has done, compiled before he bucked the church, I would be happy to peruse it. It certainly can't be the false claim that he claimed to invent mRNA vaccines, that he addresses in the interview and used to showcase the utter stupidity and untruthfullness of his detractors.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

HDRider said:


> Therein lies your problem. You are smart. We are dumb.
> 
> *Who said they had unquestioned faith in him? *What has been said is that he causes doubt in those that direct us.
> 
> You are too arrogant to be honest.


Feel free to scan the thread to see who’s promoting him. 
Too arrogant to be honest? Huh


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

fireweed farm said:


> All I said was look him up and open your eyes for a minute.
> You lose all credibility calling me a parishioner.
> As others do parroting it.
> But carry on. Lap it up.
> ...


Never heard of him before yesterday. Thought he had some good points, points that I have been trying to make since this thing began, and some that I hadn't even considered.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

barnbilder said:


> He certainly sounds more intelligent, and less unscrupulous than Faucci. Guy made himself a target, he is retirement age, has grandchildren to enjoy, a paid for horse farm, happy. He is sticking his neck out, way out. Something Faucci has never done. Well you might need a mask, maybe no mask, two masks, a jab and a mask, two jabs and no mask, three jabs and two masks. Certainly a lot more consistent than faucci. In fact, I can't find a single bad thing about the guy, other than what some religious zealots have to say about him, since he dared question their sacred tenets. If you have a list of bad things he has done, compiled before he bucked the church, I would be happy to peruse it. It certainly can't be the false claim that he claimed to invent mRNA vaccines, that he addresses in the interview and used to showcase the utter stupidity and untruthfullness of his detractors.


I suggested you and all look him up. I‘m not doing homework for someone who won’t accept it on a silver platter. I literally have snow to shovel.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Did the orange man bad church merge with the holy church of the covidaids, or is there an orange man bad sect of the holy church of the covidaids?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

fireweed farm said:


> Too arrogant to be honest? Huh


Hubris is the word


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

barnbilder said:


> Did the orange man bad church merge with the holy church of the covidaids, or is there an orange man bad sect of the holy church of the covidaids?


We still have a lot of cases of TDS, but a new infection, CDS, has set in


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

fireweed farm said:


> I suggested you and all look him up. I‘m not doing homework for someone who won’t accept it on a silver platter. I literally have snow to shovel.


I looked. Before I even listened to him. Looked on google, saw nothing but regurgitated accusations from people with little credibility. Ducked him. Found his accomplishments, along with the recent regurgitations. Then I listened to him. He addressed all of the regurgitations. And then some.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

If you are comfortable with your belief system, you ought to be able to listen to him for a little while. I listen to NPR sometimes. Of course you will have to use spotify, evidently the folks at youtube aren't comfortable with their belief system.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

barnbilder said:


> Did the orange man bad church merge with the holy church of the covidaids, or is there an orange man bad sect of the holy church of the covidaids?





HDRider said:


> We still have a lot of cases of TDS, but a new infection, CDS, has set in


You guys in elementary school by chance?
Ah no point.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

fireweed farm said:


> You guys in elementary school by chance?
> Ah no point.


We have to be at your level, and you still don't get it

Think about it, you stoop lower every time you post.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

fireweed farm said:


> You guys in elementary school by chance?
> Ah no point.


You said you didn't have time to put forth documented evidence to show John Malone is a charlatan. Yet you keep up the tit for tat.
I find it hard to get objective results on John Malone using google.

I also find biased and slanted results when using google on Tony Fauci, Christine Fauci, his colleagues, details pertaining to his gain of function research, his emails, how he distributed funds to labs, his activities during the Obama administration, and on. The bias, however, seems slanted in another direction.
You didn't express your view on Mr. Fauci, and with such an extensive history to access, I wonder why? Yet, John Malone is a charlatan. Interesting.

If I keep responding to you with items I find suggesting that John Malone is a charlatan, will you ackowledge them or least tell me hot or cold?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I will say that I know for a fact that death certificates are not always accurate.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

Big_John said:


> “Just to give you an idea of how bad that is, a three-sigma or a one-in-200-year catastrophe would be 10% increase over pre-pandemic,” he said. “So 40% is just unheard of.”
> 
> 
> .........


Our ED visits are up 50% from pre-covid. Now add in that 30% of ed beds are now typically occupied by patients who are admitted but no staffed beds upstairs means we are seeing/treating/dispositioning patients from the waiting room. I've had patients admitted to the ICU but are still sitting in the waiting room because no place to put them. I haven't incubated anyone in the waiting room yet. Maybe tomorrow.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Incubated?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

gilberte said:


> Incubated?


Maybe spell correct?


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

gilberte said:


> Incubated?


Ha! Yes, inTUBated.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I was thinking interrogated.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Lots of theories on Covid, as I believe the underlying theory here is that it is playing a part in many of these deaths. I will just keep my eyes and ears open to what is happening to those around me. My fully vaccinated and boostered son came down with Covid and is sick at home but not hospitalized. Hoping and praying for the best for him. Keeping a close eye on what is happening with older folks I know that were fully vaccinated. And also keep tabs on those that were not vaccinated at all.

Meanwhile, I will continue with my daily supplements I have mentioned many times here. In addition to my D3, Zinc,Vitamin C, black cumin powder, I have now added Vitamin K2 to the mix. I had one shot of Moderna.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

I see the new governor of NY is questioning the hospital numbers also. She is going to require hospitals to give them data that shows the number of admissions due to COVID separate from those in for other conditions who happened to test positive. I suspect the narrative will soon change everywhere solely for political reasons. It was to their advantage to keep COVID numbers high when Trump was in office to make him look bad, and it worked. With the midterms coming this year, it is now in their interest to lower the numbers of COVID hospital cases to make themselves look good. Figures don't lie but liars figure comes to mind.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Since April 2021, increased cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have been reported in the United States after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna), particularly in adolescents and young adults. There has not been a similar reporting pattern observed after receipt of the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine (Johnson & Johnson).

In most cases, patients who presented for medical care have responded well to medications and rest and had prompt improvement of symptoms. Reported cases have occurred predominantly in male adolescents and young adults 16 years of age and older. Onset was typically within several days after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination, and cases have occurred more often after the second dose than the first dose. CDC and its partners are investigating these reports of myocarditis and pericarditis following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination.

CDC continues to recommend COVID-19 vaccination for everyone 5 years of age and older given the risk of COVID-19 illness and related, possibly severe complications, such as long-term health problems, hospitalization, and even death.





__





Clinical Considerations: Myocarditis after mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC


Clinical considerations for myocarditis and pericarditis after receipt of mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines among adolescents and young adults.




www.cdc.gov


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

There are now 4 myocarditis cases at Monte Vista
So it's likely that 1 in 70 teenage boys are affected. That's not rare. Why isn't anyone speaking out about this?








There are now 4 reported myocarditis cases at Monte Vista


So it's likely that nearly 1 in 70 teenage boys are affected. That's not rare. Why isn't anyone speaking out about this? Is it fear? Of what?




stevekirsch.substack.com


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

poppy said:


> I see the new governor of NY is questioning the hospital numbers also. She is going to require hospitals to give them data that shows the number of admissions due to COVID separate from those in for other conditions who happened to test positive. I suspect the narrative will soon change everywhere solely for political reasons. It was to their advantage to keep COVID numbers high when Trump was in office to make him look bad, and it worked. With the midterms coming this year, it is now in their interest to lower the numbers of COVID hospital cases to make themselves look good. Figures don't lie but liars figure comes to mind.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478213106258034689


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I see that as a primarily political exercise.
They could have, and should have been reporting such data a whole long time ago, but death and fear were still a trendy hot item back then for those wanting their turn at being in charge.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I think there are many reasons that make up the surplus deaths. For some, delayed surgeries and diagnostic tests meant they were delayed too long to save them and some of those in my community died for that very reason. 

Local doctors switched to phone consultations and I fear a friend has something very serious but according to his doctor, it's not uncommon for an adult to have swollen glands for well over a year. Because of safe social distancing, to date, he hasn't gotten close enough to look at them of even touch them. 

A young local man experienced the same until a collapsed lung took him to ER, where his cancer was diagnosed way too late for anything but palliative care. 

One of my favorite employees is pretty convinced his wife will die before his wife's non elective brain surgery is rescheduled. Her surgery date was booked for what turned out to be the beginning of the first wave and postponed enough times that she needs to start over with another elusive MRI. 

Our local doctors, who claimed to be overworked until the government agreed to pay them for phone consults are now working in clinics 3 days a week. 

Suicides are high right now but most people in my community don't want to risk life insurance policies and they are getting quite good at making them look like accidents. 

Vaccinated or not, very few people in my community are getting quality medical care at this time.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> There are now 4 myocarditis cases at Monte Vista
> So it's likely that 1 in 70 teenage boys are affected. That's not rare. Why isn't anyone speaking out about this?
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe people are afraid to speak out- or if they do, they get censored. Plenty of the people who "speak out" get booted. 

__
http://instagr.am/p/CWb1tb4DfrF/


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> Maybe people are afraid to speak out- or if they do, they get censored. Plenty of the people who "speak out" get booted.
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CWb1tb4DfrF/


A sad testament to free speech


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

^ it sure is....


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated
> 
> 
> President Trump and other conspiracy fantasists touted the fake claim that COVID death counts are exaggerated. But three kinds of evidence point to more than 350,000 deaths*
> ...


Credible scientific articles do not open with a slanted political attack.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

HDRider said:


> What if the largest experiment on human beings in history is a failure?
> 
> 
> A report from an Indiana life insurance company raises serious concerns.
> ...



This is what they were talking about in that interview on Joe Rogan.

It seems that people who are in very good health, than get the shot, have heart attacks. These are soccer players and other athletes.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Farmerga said:


> Credible scientific articles do not open with a slanted political attack.


Good article, but more than a year old.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> It seems that people who are in very good health, than get the shot, have heart attacks.


Interestingly, I've had three mRNA injections yet remain in good health. Go figure...


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Paumon said:


> I think that's debatable. I'm still seeing unprecedented paranoia about terrorism happening in USA ever since 9/11 happened. Barnbilder and Alice have brought up good points.
> 
> We can all speculate and come up with more conspiracy theories until the cows come home but I think it will be another couple of years before we all have better answers and notions of the ramifications and consequences of covid and wherever it really came from and what really started it. I don't for one minute believe that it was a lab experiment that was deliberately released into the public, I believe it was all a natural consequence of human activities around the world.


So we should just wait and see how it pans out, not worry about it, and if offered, move to those "nice retirement communities" the government has prepared for us?

I am not saying that the sky is falling down, but at the least, it is raining.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Nevada said:


> Interestingly, I've had three mRNA injections yet remain in good health. Go figure...


Sample size of one. Go figure....


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Nevada said:


> Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated
> 
> 
> President Trump and other conspiracy fantasists touted the fake claim that COVID death counts are exaggerated. But three kinds of evidence point to more than 350,000 deaths*
> ...


Years old article


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> Interestingly, I've had three mRNA injections yet remain in good health. Go figure...


In the 1350's there were certain people who seemed immune to the black death. You ready to be locked in a small room with Plague infected rats covered in fleas? I mean you are of European decent, there is a chance that you carry the genes necessary to have the immunity.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> In the 1350's there were certain people who seemed immune to the black death. You ready to be locked in a small room with Plague infected rats covered in fleas? I mean you are of European decent, there is a chance that you carry the genes necessary to have the immunity.


The thing is that serious side effects of mRNA vaccines are very rare, while the upside benefit is nearly universal. But we don't discuss the lives saved by covid vaccines. If there's a thread in this forum that discusses the benefit of covid vaccines then I haven't found it.

In Africa covid is a pandemic of 'have nots' because there isn't enough vaccine to go around. Only the wealthy and politically connected get covid vaccines. What's sad is that in this country we are blessed with plenty of vaccine, so it's a pandemic of those who simply don't want it. When it comes to covid in the United States, it didn't have to get this bad. But here we are.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> Interestingly, I've had three mRNA injections yet remain in good health. Go figure...


Then it has to be as lie then. Those people are definitely not dying from the vaccine because you are healthy. 

Case closed.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> The thing is that serious side effects of the mRNA vaccines are very rare, while the upside benefit is nearly universal. But we don't discuss the lives saved by the vaccines. If there's a thread in this forum that discusses the benefit of covid vaccines then I haven't found it.
> 
> In Africa covid is a pandemic of the 'have nots' because there isn't enough vaccine to go around. Only the wealthy and politically connected get the covid vaccine. What's sad is that in this country it's a pandemic of those who don't want the vaccine out of concern about rare side effects. When it comes to covid in the United States, it didn't have to get this bad. But here we are.


The problem is that we don't really know how rare it is because it is being swept under a rug. We all know how many people don't seem to be affected by it yet. No one up high is talking about the people who are affected by it. 

And that's the problem.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> The thing is that serious side effects of the mRNA vaccines are very rare, while the upside benefit is nearly universal. But we don't discuss the lives saved by the vaccines. If there's a thread in this forum that discusses the benefit of covid vaccines then I haven't found it.
> 
> In Africa covid is a pandemic of the 'have nots' because there isn't enough vaccine to go around. Only the wealthy and politically connected get the covid vaccine. What's sad is that in this country it's a pandemic of those who don't want the vaccine out of concern about rare side effects. When it comes to covid in the United States, it didn't have to get this bad. But here we are.


By the numbers, so is death by Covid. Variants such as Omicron will end this pandemic, not vaccines. Remember also, that I am fully vaccinated, I simply do not worship at the alter of Pfizer.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Here is a nice little read about Vaccine Passports










No to Vaccine Passports | National Review


The war on mitigating risk is endless, and it will cost us our liberties, our way of life, and our souls.




www.nationalreview.com


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

mreynolds said:


> Then it has to be as lie then. Those people are definitely not dying from the vaccine because you are healthy.
> 
> Case closed.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> The thing is that serious side effects of the mRNA vaccines are very rare, while the upside benefit is nearly universal. But we don't discuss the lives saved by covid vaccines. If there's a thread in this forum that discusses the benefit of covid vaccines then I haven't found it.


And the man who holds 9 patents, the originator of the mRNA vaccines that you speak of, has a differing opinion than you. He doesn't want people tied to a block of wood and forcibly vaccinated. He doesn't consider those who are hesitant to be an enemy of the people.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> He doesn't consider those who are hesitant to be an enemy of the people.


I also don't consider those who are vaccine hesitant to be an enemy of the people, but I do find it sad.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Just seems odd that the originator of the vaccine you are touting doesn't seem to agree with your ideology.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Dr. Malone is not the originator of the vaccine, even if he likes to claim it all the time.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

From Mika's lips to yours.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Dr. Malone is not the originator of the vaccine, even if he likes to claim it all the time.


Steve Bannon says he was the inventor. What, that's not good enough for you?

Malone was born in 1960, give or take a year. Knowing that mRNA technology dates back to the 1960s Malone would have developed mRNA vaccines when he was a child.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)




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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Interestingly, I've had three mRNA injections yet remain in good health. Go figure...


I a neighbour who got much different results than you and I. 

He was healthy 25 year old when he vaccinated too keep his job. That ‘mild heart inflammation’ triggered a heart attack and won’t be working for quite a while. 


I don’t think your arguments are credible if you refuse to admit that there are some experiencing significant side effects.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

For the people I know, the dreaded covidaids was two coughs and a sneeze, unless they listen to a lot of news in which case they almost died. The only people that I know that died, their lives were definitely improved by death. I've heard of some friends of friends of friends that were "young and healthy" that got really sick, and or died. Some facebook snooping told me that they had half as much lung as they needed for the amount of human they were carrying. I know several people that have died really young, from heart conditions. I Know a lot of people who have died from overdose and suicide in the past two years. I know people who were killed by a habitual offender drunk driver that was being held for attempted murder, but was released because he was a diabetic and at risk of dying in jail for covid. I know of one older lady that had covid, recovered, then failed a test before going on a trip and subsequently dropped dead. Worried herself to the point of letting the doctors kill her with intubation. Hers is the only covid case that I personally know about that was unpredictable.

Everybody else has tested positive with no symptoms, or had a slight cold, as long as they don't follow a certain death cult, or let it rattle them. I know several people who have had bad shot reactions, pain, sickness, Bell's palsy, heart palpatations, after getting the shot. They may not connect the two things, depending upon their cult membership. I know lots of people, who are covidians, former anti-orange members, who have been fully vaccinated and had such bad breakthrough cases they needed hospital care.

I don't believe words when they come from certain lips. Certain lips make be believe the opposite of the words. I do believe what I see with my own eyes.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

wr said:


> I don’t think your arguments are credible if you refuse to admit that there are some experiencing significant side effects.


That's simply not true. I"ve never said that nobody experiences serious side effects. In fact I acknowledged that in post 114.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

painterswife said:


> Dr. Malone is not the originator of the vaccine, even if he likes to claim it all the time.


Again, you are patently wrong.

It is the the methods he developed, not the vaxx.

Go fish...


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> That's simply not true. I"ve never said that nobody experiences serious side effects. In fact I acknowledged that in post 114.


Yes, you glossed over them as quickly as you could without any great concern. I have a different perspective. I'm just as concerned about all the covid collateral damage as those who have died from covid. 

I vaccinated at a time when I had the legal right to make my own medical decisions and any consequences would have been because of my own actions. 

Let's talk again about my young neighbour who didn't have the legal right to make his own medical decisions if he wanted to feed his young family. 

Even if his friends strapped for time now that they're feeding his cows, helping his wife and managing their own busy lives, do you really think they're standing in line to find out if they will experience the same?

I certainly feel the vaccines are useful but I don't feel that sending people back for boosters every 6 months is sustainable or even credible.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Nevada said:


> I also don't consider those who are vaccine hesitant to be an enemy of the people, but I do find it sad.



Honestly, I consider someone trying to force me to take a poison which has effects we do not know, and severe effects that we do know, that has not been tested except on those who have been forced to accept it, to cure a disease which largely preys on those who do not care to take care of themselves or those who are immune to the disease it supposedly cures, to be GUILTY OF CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

This is clearly laid out in the Geneva Conventions and US law.

Legally you have no business even asking about my diseases.

That said, I am not the judge, nor the jury. I can only hope the criminals get to meet those who would then judge them.

(I suspect the people here do not like me much)


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> Honestly, I consider someone trying to force me to take a poison which has effects we do not know, and severe effects that we do know, that has not been tested except on those who have been forced to accept it, to cure a disease which largely preys on those who do not care to take care of themselves or those who are immune to the disease it supposedly cures, to be GUILTY OF CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.
> 
> This is clearly laid out in the Geneva Conventions and US law.
> 
> ...


Is it asking too much that a hospital not have disease carriers working at hospitals?


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> Is it asking too much that a hospital not to have disease carriers working at hospitals?


A hospital without workers seems kind of useless.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Hiro said:


> A hospital without workers seems kind of useless.


Are you suggesting that all hospital employees are disease carriers?


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Nevada said:


> Is it asking too much that a hospital not have disease carriers working at hospitals?


Did you see this?





__





COVID-positive employees allowed to work at R.I.’s state-run hospital






www.msn.com


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

There are many reasons. Greater population of weak, ill, borderline people who are just barely hanging on at any given time. Poor general health is more common in the general population, than those in good health. And the worst offender of all, better record keeping, and social media reminding us every hour of every day that people are dying.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Nevada said:


> Are you suggesting that all hospital employees are disease carriers?


Yes. In fact they are. Some of them could have things far worse than covid.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> Is it asking too much that a hospital not have disease carriers working at hospitals?


How are you going to stop that? Everyone can get COVID.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

If you are exposed to humans at any point, you are exposed to humans that are carrying viruses. If you don't want to be exposed to humans with viruses, you should consider visiting Drs. Smith and Wesson, and they can help you administer a shot for that. You have no reasonable, or logical expectation to be protected from contact with humans that have viruses. Imagine if we said we were afraid of the HIV virus, so we wanted to make sure that there were no gay people working in hospitals. Gay people are exactly the same as unvaccinated people. They have more likelihood of having HIV, by some metrics. It would be hard to make the argument that people that aren't vaccinated carry any more covid viruses than vaccinated people do. How would it sound to say that gay people can't work in hospitals?

Educate yourself about the human virome. The average human has five species of virus present. I would imagine that people that are around sick people have more. If you don't want to be exposed to viruses, don't go to a doctor.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> Is it asking too much that a hospital not have disease carriers working at hospitals?


The shot doesn't really stop infection, it simply makes the infection less bothersome. So, vaccinated, or, not, they are still "disease carriers" I am fully vaccinated and am almost certain I had the Rona over Christmas. Several of my co-workers had the same symptoms at the same time and those who tested, tested positive. All were fully stuck.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

What scares the powers that be about the Omicron variant is that it just might be the pandemic stopper that it seems to be. A mild version that is easy to catch. All of these politicians, both openly and those who are playing as if they are medical professionals, can feel their power slipping away.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> The shot doesn't really stop infection


I have lost count on how many times I've posted reference links that say that myth is not true. So rather than do that again I'll ask -- Why it is so obviously important to you that the myth is true?


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> I have lost count on how many times I've posted reference links that say that myth is not true. So rather than do that again I'll ask -- Why it is so obviously important to you that the myth is true?


We have the government telling us that the shot will protect us, but, more and more of the fully vaccinated getting COVID. Since government talking heads have been caught in more lies than I care to count, who are we to believe, your assertions, or, our lying eyes? Most of the US is fully vaccinated. (somewhere north of 62%,) but we have record numbers of infections every day. When are you going to understand that you are being lied to by government talking heads and their propaganda ministers in the media? 

I know it is anecdotal, but, I have known more people who got the Rona after being vaccinated than those who got it without.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> I have lost count on how many times I've posted reference links that say that myth is not true. So rather than do that again I'll ask -- Why it is so obviously important to you that the myth is true?


You could post a million reference links, but too many of us have our own eyes. We all know and have personally witnessed jabbed and boosted people that made it the first 18 months of the Wuflu without getting sick are getting sick now. The jab does not prevent infection. The lower symptomatic response causes the Wuflu to spread more easily. 

You may buy the line of don't believe your lying eyes, believe what you are told. But, I can assure you that you are not going to convince anyone rational that has more than two functional brain cells.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Is it asking too much that a hospital not have disease carriers working at hospitals?


RI Health Dept. opens door for COVID-infected staff to work at hospitals, nursing homes









RI Health Dept. opens door for COVID-infected staff to work at hospitals, nursing homes


New guidance from the RI Health Department has opened the door for COVID-infected staff to work at hospitals, nursing homes facing 'staffing crisis'



www.providencejournal.com





PROVIDENCE — A memo went out to employees at the state-run Eleanor Slater Hospital on Friday telling them they can work even if they have tested positive for COVID, if there is a staffing crisis. 

Under those circumstances, the memo advised the employees that "those who are exposed or have a positive Covid test but are asymptomatic" can work "in crisis situations for staffing," as long as they wear N95 masks. 

The Rhode Island Department of Health has in recent days also opened that same last-resort, crisis-staffing option to COVID-19 infected health-care personnel at hospitals and skilled nursing homes who are "mildly symptomatic."


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I have lost count on how many times I've posted reference links that say that myth is not true. So rather than do that again I'll ask -- Why it is so obviously important to you that the myth is true?











COVID-19 Vaccination


COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.




www.cdc.gov





COVID-19 vaccines are effective at preventing infection, serious illness, and death. Most people who get COVID-19 are unvaccinated. However, since vaccines are not 100% effective at preventing infection, some people who are fully vaccinated will still get COVID-19.

An infection of a fully vaccinated person is referred to as a “vaccine breakthrough infection.”


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> I have lost count on how many times I've posted reference links that say that myth is not true. So rather than do that again I'll ask -- Why it is so obviously important to you that the myth is true?


How is it a myth? My sister had both vaccines and a booster on Thanksgiving. Then she tested positive for Covid last week and is still on quarantine. 

Do you not know anyone at all that was vaxxed and got it? EVERY one else does.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

In a population of about 350, we have 5 cases of the virus, 4 fully vaxxed and one not. Two of the fully vaxxed are in the hospital, these are all people under the age of 50.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

Nevada said:


> I have lost count on how many times I've posted reference links that say that myth is not true. So rather than do that again I'll ask -- Why it is so obviously important to you that the myth is true?


Because it's true. I'm fully vaccinated. Diagnosed 2 days ago. In the words of Jeff Foxworthy....here's your sign.

It is OBVIOUS that the shots don't prevent infections. There is a covid outbreak in Antarctica, all fully vaccinated, and everyone quarantined before going.

It is obvious to anyone who isn't completely fixated on their personal ideologies that the vaccines do NOT prevent infections. They almost assuredly reduce infections. They probably reduce the spread. And they CLEARLY are associated with improved outcomes.

Folks who still think covid vaccines prevent all covid infections are ideologues, stupid, liars, or a mix of all of the above.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Nevada said:


> Is it asking too much that a hospital not have disease carriers working at hospitals?


Despite being vaccinated, people still get and transmit covid. The CDC admits it, Fauci admits it, Pfizer admits it. 


Fully vaccinated people with a vaccine breakthrough infection are less likely to develop serious illness than those who are unvaccinated and get COVID-19.
Even when fully vaccinated people develop symptoms, they tend to be less severe symptoms than in unvaccinated people. This means they are much less likely to be hospitalized or die than people who are not vaccinated.
People who get vaccine breakthrough infections can be contagious.









COVID-19 Vaccination


COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.




www.cdc.gov


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Just like any other job, people who work at hospitals often report to work while sick. One of the nursery workers when my son was born was running a fever and could barely talk. Yet there she was, holding newborns and interacting with new mothers.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> Just like any other job, people who work at hospitals often report to work while sick. One of the nursery workers when my son was born was running a fever and could barely talk. Yet there she was, holding newborns and interacting with new mothers.


I would be more worried if she didn't have a fever but just a runny nose - typical adult pathology for RSV which is far more lethal for the newborn.

Many hospitals are overrun with patients and have staff out sick worsening the situation. We can go back as soon as we can because of the crisis staffing situation.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

This incident was years ago. Long before the current staffing shortages of cut rate health care and minimum staffing of facilities. At the time the hospital had plenty of nurses, this one has used up all her sick days and didn't want to take the day off without pay.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> Despite being vaccinated, people still get and transmit covid. The CDC admits it, Fauci admits it, Pfizer admits it.
> 
> 
> Fully vaccinated people with a vaccine breakthrough infection are less likely to develop serious illness than those who are unvaccinated and get COVID-19.
> ...


I never denied any of that. I am aware that breakthrough infections occur. But despite occasional breakthrough infections, the vaccines are still very effective at preventing the disease. What I object to is the flat statement that covid vaccines do not prevent the disease.

Unfortunately the omicron variant is evidently infecting more vaccinated people than previous variants. We'll have to wait and see how it unfolds.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

Nevada said:


> But despite occasional breakthrough infections, the vaccines are still very effective at preventing the disease.


Most people use the term "prevent" to mean actually "prevent." Most historical vaccines are VERY GOOD at preventing the diseases they were created for. Turns out the covid vaccines are NOT very good at preventing the disease.

They do LIKELY reduce the likelihood of getting the disease, and POSSIBLY reduce the likelihood of spreading it, but as for preventing.....not so much.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The prevention capacity of the vaccines is unknown. The testing that was supposed to be conducted on the recipients was stopped when a 5% failure rate was reached. 

By prevention, I suppose it to mean that the vaxxed didn't get covid, not that they didn't have symptoms.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> So we should just wait and see how it pans out, not worry about it, and if offered, move to those "nice retirement communities" the government has prepared for us?
> 
> I am not saying that the sky is falling down, but at the least, it is raining.


I won't concern myself with speculating about what other people will or should do but speaking for myself I'll continue on with my life the way I normally do and see how things pan out.

I don't believe your government has nice retirement communities prepared for you. Why would they do something like that? I've never heard of such a thing. Have you?

.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Paumon said:


> I don't believe your government has nice retirement communities prepared for you. Why would they do something like that? I've never heard of such a thing. Have you?
> 
> .


As a matter of fact, yes, that has happened in the USA. Gotta watch those evil Democrats:








Japanese Internment Camps


Japanese internment camps were established during World War II by President Franklin D. Roosevelt through his Executive Order 9066. From 1942 to 1945, it was




www.history.com


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Paumon said:


> I won't concern myself with speculating about what other people will or should do but speaking for myself I'll continue on with my life the way I normally do and see how things pan out.
> 
> I don't believe your government has nice retirement communities prepared for you. Why would they do something like that? I've never heard of such a thing. Have you?


My point was, the government is not out there to help us, all is not pie in the sky, and if you want your freedoms than you need to protect them.

The government is not the nice momma cat making a nice place for you in the future.

If they do have a future place for us, it is more like what FARMERGA suggests, interment camps (that you pay for) or Dachau type place because

*"Sans Humanitie 
I will give you no sympathy
You deserve no pity
and
it serves you right!"*


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Is it asking too much that a hospital not have disease carriers working at hospitals?


Several Canadian provinces, California and Arizona have given approval for health care workers who test positive and are asymptomatic or experiencing mild symptoms to continue working. 

I would also suggest that hospitals are the breeding grounds for disease long before covid. I spent 28 days, post natal as a guest of the same hospital that generously gave me a staph infection and it's nowhere near an isolated incident.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> How is it a myth? My sister had both vaccines and a booster on Thanksgiving. Then she tested positive for Covid last week and is still on quarantine.
> 
> Do you not know anyone at all that was vaxxed and got it? EVERY one else does.


My Christmas got cancelled because two fully vaccinated family members tested positive and my niece was actually very sick.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

wr said:


> Several Canadian provinces, California and Arizona have given approval for health care workers who test positive and are asymptomatic or experiencing mild symptoms to continue working.
> 
> I would also suggest that hospitals are the breeding grounds for disease long before covid. I spent 28 days, post natal as a guest of the same hospital that generously gave me a staph infection and it's nowhere near an isolated incident.



You can add New Hampshire to that list of hospitals


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

_My wife just sent me this story from one of her coworkers. This happened sometime late last week. Don't know any other details; how fat or old or decrepit, just passing it along.

"My nanny went to the pharmacy today to receive her Covid booster shot and a few minutes down the road she started to have a reaction & her throat started closing. We quickly got her to the nearest clinic and not a minute after arriving an army of nurses came to the car and began working on her. Within only a few minutes of being there, the nurses had already gave an Epi Pen, Benadryl, & called an ambulance. Everyone there was amazing and we are so thankful for them all!"_


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> You can add New Hampshire to that list of hospitals


I'm wonder how that will affect those unvaccinated employees that were put on leave. It strikes me as fairly unsafe for patients to let symptomatic health care workers continue working.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

wr said:


> I'm wonder how that will affect those unvaccinated employees that were put on leave. It strikes me as fairly unsafe for patients to let symptomatic health care workers continue working.


Asymptomatic is the key I believe. Reminds me of "Typhoid Mary", although many covid sufferers are asymptomatic or mild. Do I trust Big Pharma and the Gov? No.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

They knew from the beginning that covid was being spread by asymptomatic and presymptomatic people. It hasn't changed, the vaccine has just led to more asymptomatic transmission since you can spread it without having symptoms.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> I have lost count on how many times I've posted reference links that say that myth is not true. So rather than do that again I'll ask -- Why it is so obviously important to you that the myth is true?





Nevada said:


> I have lost count on how many times I've posted reference links that say that myth is not true. So rather than do that again I'll ask -- Why it is so obviously important to you that the myth is true?


The manufactures said in printing that your wrong.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Redlands Okie said:


> The manufactures said in printing that your wrong.


He has to wait for Don Lemon to confirm.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

COVID-19 vaccines that reduce symptoms but do not block infection need higher coverage and faster rollout to achieve population impact - Scientific Reports


Trial results for two COVID-19 vaccines suggest at least 90% efficacy against symptomatic disease (VEDIS). It remains unknown whether this efficacy is mediated by lowering SARS-CoV-2 infection susceptibility (VESUSC) or development of symptoms after infection (VESYMP). We aim to assess and...




www.nature.com





A specific concern for COVID-19 vaccines is that a vaccine with high efficacy against COVID-19 disease (VEDIS) but low efficacy against SARS-CoV-2 infection (VESUSC), would predominantly convert symptomatic infections to asymptomatic infections. Furthermore, if the vaccine does not reduce infectiousness (VEINF = 0), it could in theory lead to increased spread of SARS-CoV-211,12. This is especially relevant in settings such as the US where the testing and diagnosis of infection is primarily symptom-driven; individuals with asymptomatic infection are less likely to be diagnosed and therefore may spread infection more readily than diagnosed and socially-isolated symptomatic individuals. The concern is heightened by considerable evidence pointing to the role that asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic cases play in transmission of SARS-CoV-2, with peak infectiousness typically occurring prior to the onset of symptoms13,14,15. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are reported to have ~ 95% VEDIS with VESUSC and VESYMP remaining unknown. Unfortunately, VEINF for these vaccines is not estimable from the completed trials.

The vaccines were never tested for their ability to reduce infections. Even Pfizer said in their release dated April 1, 2021 that the vaccines reduce severe disease.





__





Pfizer and BioNTech Confirm High Efficacy and No Serious Safety Concerns Through Up to Six Months Following Second Dose in Updated Topline Analysis of Landmark COVID-19 Vaccine Study | Pfizer


Analysis of 927 confirmed symptomatic cases of COVID-19 demonstrates BNT162b2 is highly effective with 91.3% vaccine efficacy observed against COVID-19, measured seven days through up to six months after the second dose Vaccine was 100% effective in preventing severe disease as defined by the...




www.pfizer.com





USAToday contradicts itself several times in this article. Including how they rate the claim as false when they state the vaxxed can spread covid. I love how they use their own articles as factual sources. 









Fact check: Vaccines protect against contracting, spreading COVID-19


While vaccinated people can still get COVID-19, experts say the shots provide considerable protection against the virus.



www.usatoday.com


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## jr23 (Sep 3, 2013)

CKelly78z said:


> Everything related to covid that can't be tracked is most likely the reasons for higher death rates, suchas; stress, mental illness from isolation, increased drinking, increased drug use, increased bad eating habits, decreased activity, depression, and no face to face interaction with friends, or family.


i think your response is the correct one. lives in many places especially where govoners and mayors are dictators.


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