# German Shepherd as LGD?



## paper_crane2 (Sep 7, 2013)

Would German shepherds make okay livestock guardian dogs?


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Here is a good website on Livestock guardian breeds. http://www.lgd.org/

German Shepherds are a herding breed, and often bred for bite work with a very strong prey drive. I wouldn't consider using one for a lgd. I have seen a few that were extremely rough on the sheep. 
I have both herding and livestock guardian dogs. There is so much difference in how they act around the sheep. It really is a good investment to get a dog bred for the job. 
Hope this helps and good luck in your search.


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## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

In a word - NO! Our GSD is the big bad wolf at our place. Extremely high prey drive that we put to use on occasion to work the goats and sheep. Most of the recent serious dog attacks I have heard about involved GSD or GSD mixes.

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## paper_crane2 (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks for the responses. I sort of suspected that they wouldn't but I still needed to ask!

wendle, thanks for the link!


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## SeaGoat (Aug 17, 2012)

Another no.
I have 2. One is super high prey drive and is actually overly rough. I only use her on extreme occasion and sometimes have to send my male in to back her off. 
My male is pretty good with them. If he gets bored hell chase one around to stir things up

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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

Another resounding NO. GS are HUMAN guard dogs, not good for livestock.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

But there are exceptions to every rule.
My GSD mix is excellent with the birds, has never gone after them after the first day and one correction. Loves baby anything and I have busted her IN the rabbit colony with all the kits snuggled next to her.
And I ahve known others who have pures and they are excellent.
When rounding up errant birds they pin them to the ground with their chests adn soft hold with the mouth.
Looks terrifying, but it secure, but gentle.
IF you have the right dog and if you are alpha absolute, then it may work for you.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Sorry, I must say FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that a German Shepherd can make an excellent livestock guardian dog. They simply need some strong guidance while they're young. (My last GSD got so good at keeping my goats...and fowl...from harm that she got irritating because she was constantly breaking up their mating rituals. Oh yes, she would run at the ones mating, they separate, and she sits and watches to make sure they stay separate.) Take a look! Here she is making sure the strangers who were there talking with me about a pond didn't get any closer to her charges.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Yes you can get lucky and make a dog do a job it isn't bred for, but the whole point of having breeds is to increase the chances of having a dog that EXCELLS at the job not just succeeds. Breeding for a working purpose increase the number of dogs that perform the job and how well they perform the job with the least amount of training.


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## SeaGoat (Aug 17, 2012)

I agree you can get lucky, I have a Shepard mix I wouldn't give half a thought about leaving with my livestock. In fact, I do.. but she won't be playing the roll of hero, I can assure you that

I would better your odds by going with a breed designed specifically to be guardian 

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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

I just ran across this article and thought about the op's original question. This may explain things a little better for those looking for a livestock guardian, and why they are different from other dogs. 

http://www.motherearthnews.com/home...estock-guard-dogs-zbcz1310.aspx#axzz2jniLqCyX


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Wendle, that's a great URL! Thanks for sharing it.


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

no!!!!!! the german shepard bred has almost been ruined for farm life around here. most of the ones I have met are also very dog aggressive yet will let anyone in the house. 

we only have a shepard/ border collie mix and we are always on him for chasing and nipping livestock. he is only just 1yrs old but I will not ever have one.


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## GreenMomma (Jun 3, 2008)

I think some of it may depend on if the dog can actually love being with the livestock 24/7. Our lgd loves her goats and can't stand being away from them for very long. So she doesn't want to sneak away and come in the house at night, etc. Our other dogs would hate that... love being with their people too much, lol. Plus they sleep all night and our lgd is the opposite. Sleeps all day and up all night. I think there's a pretty strong possibility that GSDs have been bred for many generations to think most highly of their people and not be so bonded to other livestock in the same ways, so that may be quite a struggle to overcome. Whereas it is bred strongly into the lgd breeds to bond to and do the job of caring for livestock so the whole job comes more naturally.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

It depends on just exactly what you mean by a livestock guardian dog.

If you mean a dog that will live out with a herd of goats 24/7, then a huge, resounding NO.

If you mean a dog that will keep ***** away from the chickens, coyotes away from the goats, strays on the other side of the fence (which, in my experience, is what 90% of people really want when they say they want an LGD) then you get a huge, resounding YES.

My GSD mix used to bark at hawks in the sky, warning them off and right on down through every predator you can think of. Nothing came near my critters, who also were not allowed to fight among themselves. Or mate, he kept the farm rated G.

However, whichever definition you use, NO dog will do it without training. Three second's search on here pulls up 40 threads on everything that can go wrong when a person tosses a Pyr puppy out with the herd and expects them to just know, and every dog needs lessons on what belongs and what doesn't. So choose the scenario you need, choose a breed that suits it, and then be ready to train.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I think Otter hit the nail right on the head! And Otter, I know what you mean about your farm being rated "G". When my fullblood GSD, Cherokee (the one in the picture above) was alive she thought part of her duties was to break up ANYTHING THAT EVEN LOOKED LIKE A FIGHT; and that including the mating rituals.

Just to re-emphasize: All dogs need some type of training! To me that means the dog as well as that dog's owner need to understand what they want and how to get the job done. I dare say some owners can ruin an LGD (noted for livestock guarding). Two ways I've become aware of are: (1)by putting one out with the livestock too soon & (2) by poor socialization. The "playful" part of any dog can reap havock and so many LGDs are "rehomed" often because of the owner's inability to work with such a dog. 

To the OP, a GSD can make a very good "guardian" for anything you know how to train it for.


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## Gaduchman (Nov 15, 2013)

Aussie heeler, border collies only on our farms only!

I would only trust EU breeders for GS!!! Those dogs are BIG honkers - don't have the broken leg rear hunch bred in like American dogs.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Gaduchman said:


> Aussie heeler, border collies only on our farms only!
> 
> I would only trust EU breeders for GS!!! Those dogs are BIG honkers - don't have the broken leg rear hunch bred in like American dogs.


Years ago I saw a show champion GS trying to herd sheep. He had the heart, and some talent, but didn't have the structure to be able to keep up. It was pretty sad to watch.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

This morning one of my border collies and Azura found this in the barnyard. He sure picked the wrong place to be. I sort of feel sorry for the little guy.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Wendle, I love that picture! What a shot!!!


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## Snowfan (Nov 6, 2011)

I don't trust my German Shepard around other animals. I wouldn't have any other dog watching out for my wife when I'm working 3rd shift.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I thought I would share these pictures. The large dog you see is a 2 yr old fullblood German Shepherd, Cherokee. (Cherokee was an alpha female who would never accept any of the males I brought her; thus, I never was able to get her bred. She died a few years back from snake bite.) As you can see in these pics, Cherokee had a harness on. That is because she was in training to be a "caregiver" to my mother. She also carried tools for me when I needed a third hand; and she helped me up hills and steps when I was extra tired.

The baby goat you see is the same one this dog is guarding in the picture above only much younger and being bottle fed at the time. (That buck is now my herd buck and weighs over 250 lbs.) The baby puppy you see with this shepherd is our now grown lab, Cujo, when he was new to our farm and had just been weaned.

Yes Cherokee, the German Shepherd, had a prey drive. I spent quite a bit of time training her; and when I was not training her, my "mix" (Apache, the best dog ever) was....as you can see in the 3rd picture where Cherokee is literally leashed to Apache. I leashed them together because I knew Apache would not permit Cherokee to chase goats and/or chickens.

I know GS are not LGD; however, as long as my dogs are happy at what they are doing and the role they have accepted within a family (beit 2-legged or 4-legged), I'm content. (I wasn't born in the country; and I thoroughly enjoyed city life. Yet I'm quite happy here.)


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