# Barn - Dirt Floor or Raised?



## PlicketyCat

We'll be constructing a mixed-animal barn to keep our critters together safe and warm during our long bitter winters. We need to make it somewhat roomy because this will most likely be a confinement barn for a few months in winter when it's really cold (consistently below -20F) and the snow is really deep (over belly height). We've decided on roughly 16x32 because this should house all the animals we want with storage, plus the 1/3 extra for expansion. The largest/heaviest animals we're looking at are finishing hogs that may have to live inside for the last couple months if the weather turns early and a few breeding sheep & goats, otherwise it will be mixed poultry/fowl and rabbits.

We're on mostly level backcountry acreage *without* access for cement mixers and heavy machinery (like dozers and dump trucks). Everything must be transported to the site by pickup or ATV. We also have discontinuous permafrost at different depths and random locations which makes digging problematic. Given those constraints we're looking at three possible foundations: 1) poles dug in 4'; 2) skids on a level gravel base; or 3) pad and post, with either dug in footers or wide base surface piers.

Now, the part that's hanging us up is the floor. So, I'm going to put the issue out here for the collective to mull over 

A dirt floor is certainly the easiest to construct and works well with deep bedding. We can make all the available foundations work to achieve a dirt floor more or less. However, we also have up to 6' of snow in the winter, which makes break up a huge soggy icy muddy mess... which may cause wetting or flooding in the barn itself despite best efforts.

A raised floor with a crawlspace underneath means a lot less digging for the foundation, but also puts the barn and critters mostly out of harm's way during break up and still be able to go out on top of the snow on nice days. It also makes it slightly more secure from pests and predators, of which we have plenty. Deep bedding can still be used, but we won't be able to just leave it there to compost like we could on a dirt floor. The floor could be solid wood, slatted wood plank with wire screening, or reinforced wire. Any of these could be designed as removable panels to aid in mucking if necessary and facilitate replacement or repair when they eventually give out.

Concerns with a raised floor besides complexity and expense are 1) the critters would always need to use a ramp which might get hazardous with snow and ice and some animals may not like the ramp idea; 2) should the run-in shed bays be raised as well, or would they better at ground level; 3) possible hygiene & safety issues with a solid or semi-solid floor; 4) making my mucking duties and bedding expenses astronomical; 5) possible cold drafts up through the floor over a crawlspace which could lead to chilling; and 6) how high is high enough (for use and mucking/maintenance) without being too high.

Your thoughts and experiences would be greatly appreciated. We're totally greenfield here, so I'm open to alternatives as well. Thanks in advance :kiss:


----------



## birdman1

I am a fan of dirt floor for animal houseing ; but flooding is a differint story could you pick a location on a higher spot or use gravel to make a mound to build on good drainage and a dry floor is a must for your livestock. I have seen a hog pen built on skids that could be moved with a tractor and a mobile chicken house that was moved as needed .perhaps you could have a pole barn and pull the mobile pens in in inclemit weather and out for cleanup,


----------



## PlicketyCat

Now there's an idea... just building a roofed enclosure, and then a bunch of modular pasture sheds (on wheels or skids) that can all be brought in and tucked together under the roof in winter to form a "barn" with some roll-down fabric sides to help block more wind and keep the snow out.

I like it  Saves on materials only having to build one set of enclosures instead of a barn AND pasture sheds, and a "shed port" doesn't need as extensive a foundation either. Then when break up comes, I wouldn't necessarily need an intensive floor and drainage system since I can move the various enclosures to drier areas as often as needed until everything thaws since the heavy snows and ultra cold won't be a problem by then. Could work, could definitely work...


----------



## travis91

the guy up the road has a concrete isle, dirt stalls on one side and the other side has a raised wood floor, 2x4s on end every 2 ft on center with 3/4 plywood.. he drives his 30hp tractor with a round bale on the loader over it


----------



## PlicketyCat

Reading more on old slat floor barns, so I had to check with my cousin in Norway (the only member of my family who is anywhere close to my latitude and climate conditions - LOL) to what kind of floor his 200+ yo barn has. Yup - wooden slat floors about a foot above dirt grade with deep bedding. Been doing it that way for generations, and the wood slats need to be replaced about once a generation... which isn't too bad all things considered. He says the only thing to really watch out for is sizing and spacing the slats right for the animal housed in that area. His chicken coop and waterfowl areas use 3" x 1/2" pine slats spaced 1/4"-1/2" apart (give or take, I had to convert from metric). Goats and sheep are 6x2 slats with 1 1/2" gaps, and the cows (small northern type) are on 8x3 with 2" gaps. The larger horses are on 10x4 with 1" gaps (I guess since they are prone to twisting ankles?). All the joists are 2x12's on grade because they're rough slabbed off the tree.

I'm thinking a dozen coats of marine varnish (with sand or fine pebbles added in the top few coats for traction) would pretty much seal up any wood on the floors, even from caustic urine and constant wetting. There's even a low VOC marine varnish out there that is supposed non-toxic to animals once it cures completely (about a month).

Of course, I have to figure out exactly where everyone goes... I keep ending up with the ram and buck too close to the females, or someone without a daylight run or one stuck on the north side  Everyone "needs" a southern exposure... too bad a long 10" wide barn totally defeats the warmth-sharing objective!


----------



## melo143

wy couldn't you have all of your outside runs on the south side and have a couple of allys set up to move your animals out when you want them too. Its a little more work but if your doing this all for heat. I am thinking you will close at nite anyways. Then you might be able to use all the space and still have southern runs.


----------



## PlicketyCat

I think with some creative gate locations, I can keep everybody moving in the alleys in the right direction when I need to. Can't spend a lot of time trying to convince them to go the right way when there's only 2 hours of daylight to enjoy.

I moved things around a bit, switched the stairs to a ladder and added a pulley/lift to get things up into the loft, which gave me a bit more space. The milking parlor is in a bit of a weird space... but my DH think it's better than having the boys right across the alley from the girls in case someone goes into season.

After pricing lumber and wire for the floors, DH was thinking we should just go with dirt... but when I told him we'd need to do a lot of drainage trenching and maybe even some grading he thought maybe the raised floor was a better option  We can't get heavy equipment back here and some lumber and wire is less expensive than buying light equipment right now.


----------



## broncocasey

Im a visual person and need pic of different barn layouts. Can we get some pics posted as im interested in barn layouts as well?


----------



## PlicketyCat

Here are two versions so far. Both are roughly 16x32 for the main building, and I expect we'll extend the roof overhangs 4-8' on all sides. Most of the storage in both these designs will either be on the walls above the animals, or up in the loft. If the pigs don't come in and are slaughtered before the worst of the weather, their holding pen in this design can become a feed storage room.

Keep in mind that this design is just for family food production, not necessarily any market products; but I've designed it so we can add at least another 1/3 the stock over "basic" in case our needs change.


----------

