# Pls Help! Pyrenees lying on puppies!



## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Cross-posted in Guard Animal Forum.

Please don't flame me or blame me; I'm doing everything I know to do to help this litter survive.

Scenario: Two-year-old Great Pyrenees, first time mother. Litter of ten gorgeous pups born on March 29th. As of this afternoon, 4 PM, THREE PUPPIES are still alive! Mama just plunks herself down and smothers whoever is in the way of her bulk.

I've tried dividing up the litter, leaving half with her, and bringing half into the house, then switching every three hours or so. Mama has no problem with this. She feeds them and is very attentive to them, licking them and cleaning them well. She just isn't paying attention to where and how she lies down! PLUNK! Another dead pup!

I've been extremely vigilant, checking on her every three hours, round the clock, sometimes making a just-in-time rescue, and sometimes removing a suffocated DEAD pup.

Is there ANYTHING to help this situation? I have the remaining three 4-day-old pups in the house at the moment. Maybe I can just take them out to mama every few hours for feeding? Or might it be better to bottle-feed the remaining pups?

For what it's worth, mama has a clean, private location - a kidding pen within the goats' pen.

Any advice or help would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

some moms just dont know what they are doing, Id let her in to feed the pups every few hours supervised. Normally a whelping box with pig rails helps but in her case I dont think the pups have a chance to get out of the way so thats not going to do you any good.
Moms milk is best but if it becomes easier to bottle raise them try to get some goat milk if possible the formulas are not as good but can be used but i find at four weeks they tend to go down hill.


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

HI. I am sorry that you are having troubles with the litter. No flame throwing from me. I think at this point(tahts a loss of 7 pups) I would bring the pups in and only let her have them while supervised.Every 3 hours. Once they get bigger and stronger it will be easier to leave them with mom. and she will keep in milk. Let her clean them and when they are done eating I would bring them in..in a box with a heating pad set on low.
some folks have goo dluck with a whelping box with pig rolls. But if she is just ploping down any old way without care not sure that will do it.
. My lab had her pups in my bedroom. I found a flattened pup under her. I had only left her alone a few minutes. Vigourous rubbing and artificial resp brought pup back. So if you come upon one that is still warm..you can try.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

I never leave a ***** alone with her pups....now I completely understand that farm-raised dogs are different and I have no experience with those. But I keep my pups in a whelping box with a heat lamp and bring the ***** to them every 3-4 hours or so. ***** stays with the pups while I supervise feeding and cleaning. When the pups are about 3 weeks old and moving around on their own they start getting more time with mom so she can teach them manners but still they are never unsupervised.

If I were you I'd bring the pups in and bring Mom in only for feedings. When the pups are 3 or 4 weeks old you can return them to the outside with Mom full time.


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

bluemoonluck said:


> I never leave a ***** alone with her pups....now I completely understand that farm-raised dogs are different and I have no experience with those. But I keep my pups in a whelping box with a heat lamp and bring the ***** to them every 3-4 hours or so. ***** stays with the pups while I supervise feeding and cleaning. When the pups are about 3 weeks old and moving around on their own they start getting more time with mom so she can teach them manners but still they are never unsupervised.
> 
> If I were you I'd bring the pups in and bring Mom in only for feedings. When the pups are 3 or 4 weeks old you can return them to the outside with Mom full time.


This is exactly how a breeder friend of ours handles litters. I wasn't wise to that when we had our litters and slept right by them for the first week. It isn't uncommon when mom has that many and she's a fairly large dog. Our Lab had large litters and just could not keep track of all of them, plus the minute she came into the box all the babies could smell her and started moving around making it even harder for her to be able to lay down without squishing one.


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## Willowynd (Mar 27, 2005)

I normally have large litters. My whelping box has a pig rail and is actually a frame that lies on top of the sheepskin so pups cannot get under the bedding (lost a pup that got stepped on once that had gotten under the bedding- and momma was a very careful mom). For the first 48 hours I do not leave mom and babies unsupervised. I am making sure that pups are nursing well and mom is being attentive- both to caring for them and to watch for them when she lies down. After that it is a judgement call. If the ***** has settled down, is being careful and all pups are nursing well and gaining, I take a nap. Collies are generally good and careful moms, but I did have one gal that did not like caring for newborns very much and would have to be told to lie down to nurse them and many times would lie on them and ignore the muffled cries. I spent the first 2 weeks by her box until the pups were old enough to see and get out of the way. She enjoyed the pups immensely once they were weaned...but until then- they were a burden to her as they kept her from spending every minute with me. I spayed her. 
So to answer your question, I would not leave her unsupervised and make a whelping frame that you can set OVER the one peice bedding with a pig rail. If you have straw for bedding, pups could be getting under the bedding and she does not even know they are there.


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