# Newbie ? Anybody make their own biofuel for car?



## treesonggal (May 4, 2006)

We are REAL low income and have decided that in order to continue driving a vehicle we should look into making our own fuel. We seldom ever go anywhere but even a monthly or twice monthly trip to the closest largest city is killing us financially. The prospect of trying to drive home 800 miles roundtrip even once this year is looking gloomy.

Anybody with experience in this area? Any resources you care to direct us to? A relative knows of a man near Detroit who collects used cooking oil from area restaurants for making his own fuel. He claims it now costs him 40 cents/gallon.

Would appreciate good online or hardcopy references or, if you know of someone doing this in northwestern Lower Michigan that would be great, too.

Thanks!


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## Metcalf (Feb 15, 2007)

I can help you out with questions. In general unless you have a diesel mode of transportation you might be out of luck. You can make your own ethanol, but its far from efficient unless you have a large source of cheap heat such as wood or other biomass. 

With a diesel you either have to modify the car or the fuel to run bio-fuel. With bio-diesel you are changing the fuel to work in a 99% unmodified engine. With a SVO/WVO system you are modifying the engine to work with simple fuels.


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

What model of vehicle do you drive now?


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## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

treesonggal said:


> who collects used cooking oil from area restaurants for making his own fuel. He claims it now costs him 40 cents/gallon.


 That would have to be SVO/WVO as it would cost that much for filters. Actual bio-diesel would cost more because of the chemicals and processing equipment. If you had a diesel vehicle already you could maybe do the necessary conversion for $3-$400. You might try here:Bio-Diesel site Good Luck!


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Good point Adron. The guy I'm hooked up with for our own WVO blend all of a sudden said "We gotta include all these filters, etc. etc. in the per gallon price" So we now are doing $1.10 per to pay for all the *stuff*.
I would bet a nickle that that 40 cents per is more bragging than real life.
Even so . . .thats a whole bunch better than current on road diesel.

Would somebody PLEASE tell me why on road diesel is so dang high. . . . . .?????????


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Not counting processing equipment, or my time, strictly for materials I figure my biodiesel costs $.85 per gallon. Methanol and potassium hydroxide have risen in cost dramatically over the past few years.
If the oil feedstock wasnt free, I dont think I could rationalize making my own fuel, at least not from a cost-benefit angle.
As it is now, I am getting fuel for 1/3 or less than the cost of petrol diesel. 

But dont let anyone tell you that you need thousands of dollars worth of equipment to make good biodiesel. We started out using 5 gallon buckets and paint mixers. 
My current biodiesel setup involves two 55gallon drums, one for mixing, one for storage, an old electric water heater for heating oil in the winter, a few hand-cranked pumps, a few filters , and thats about it. Oh, and the nifty 60 gallon fully-draining inductor tank, $150 at Rural King, for fuel washing. Total cost, probably less than $400...


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## treesonggal (May 4, 2006)

We drive a 1997 Ford F150 pickup with a 5.2 engine.

In further asking my boyfriend about this he says he wants to make ethenol, not bio-diesel. Sorry for any confusion. Sometimes he's not too clear when speaking and I have to do the research, writing as he does not real beyond an eighth grade level. However, he is very mechanically inclined.

So, guess the question is - is there anyone on this forum with experience making their own ethenol and running a vehicle on that?


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

duplicate post


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

And remember that you owe the government road tax on the fuel that you make that you use on public highways. They are cracking down on people who are making biodiesel or using SVO and are not paying the taxes.

Ethanol production involves a lot of other government regulations because the alcohol could be consumed.


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## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

WisJim said:


> Ethanol production involves a lot of other government regulations because the alcohol could be consumed.


 Note: He said ETHANOL...don't even think about drinking Methanol as used to make bio-diesel. DRT...dead right there.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

treesonggal said:


> We drive a 1997 Ford F150 pickup with a 5.2 engine.
> 
> In further asking my boyfriend about this he says he wants to make ethenol, not bio-diesel. Sorry for any confusion. Sometimes he's not too clear when speaking and I have to do the research, writing as he does not real beyond an eighth grade level. However, he is very mechanically inclined.
> 
> So, guess the question is - is there anyone on this forum with experience making their own ethenol and running a vehicle on that?


First you need to check and see if that ford is even flex fuel compatable. If not you may have to replace a bunch of rubber, and aluminum and then reprogram the computer. Even then you may have to mix in about 10 to 15% gasoline. 

I've never run on straight ethenol put have run race cars on alchohol. Lots of power but about 1/2 the miles per gallon.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

So treesong, seems like your gonna have to get your BF to crank up a still . . . . .you know like the gentelmen of the south are so famous for.

Lots of storys of old bout the *boys* running(their hotrods) on homemade shine.

But a word of caution here; The feds really take poorly to this idea. . . .keep a lookin over your shoulder . . . . . .


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

As noted, basically the same process is used to make ethanol as to make hard liquors, such as whiskey. If you are making your own bio-diesel, likely it is the Federal Transportation Agency which would be interested. Make your own alcohol and then likely it is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms which would be interested. BATF does not have a reputation for being nice folks.


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

"remember that you owe the government road tax on the fuel that you make that you use on public highways. "

This is where I have the most trouble. I don't think I OWE the Government anything, at least not voluntarily. Next I will OWE the government for producing my own food, and for catching my own rainwater.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

The road tax is a usage/consumption tax. It goes to keeping the infrastructure intact for you to use. Essentially it is only paying your fair share. While should I have to pay your share to use the same highways and such as I do?

From what I have read most who produce biofuel from WVO wouldn't have a problem in paying the road tax if there was a method of doing so scaled down to their level of production. For example, quarterly you complete a simple, one-page form for gallons utilized times road tax and send in payment.

They could be issued a certificate which could be shown to anyone authority questioning their use. Easy enough to confirm the holder of that certificate had been sending in road use tax payments.


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

I certainly agree that fuel tax is used to maintain roads, etc. - and whoever uses the roads should expect to pay their fair share.

On the other hand, it will cost money for the government to maintain a seperate tax collection system for those folks who produce biofuel on such a small scale - the cost to maintain that system may easily be higher than the tax revenue collected.

If the governments in North America are at all serious about "using less energy", alternative energies, etc. - they're going to have to provide more/better incentives.



Ken Scharabok said:


> The road tax is a usage/consumption tax. It goes to keeping the infrastructure intact for you to use. Essentially it is only paying your fair share. While should I have to pay your share to use the same highways and such as I do?
> 
> From what I have read most who produce biofuel from WVO wouldn't have a problem in paying the road tax if there was a method of doing so scaled down to their level of production. For example, quarterly you complete a simple, one-page form for gallons utilized times road tax and send in payment.
> 
> They could be issued a certificate which could be shown to anyone authority questioning their use. Easy enough to confirm the holder of that certificate had been sending in road use tax payments.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Didn't we have a thread a while back about someone in Virgina (?) that was putting peanut or olive oil in his Mercedes that he purchased from Costco. He was busted when the state was checking truckers for non road use diesel when they noticed his bumper sticker. After paying his fine he had to apply for a permit that cost $2500 a year to run it.

Another story:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/03/illinois_man_fi.php


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Ken its so very sweet of you to be soooo pro government.

Perhaps you might do some "looking into" of how our most wonderfull gov. WASTES hugh amounts of those *road taxes*.

Theres a few of us that really resent the squandering of that *tax* money.
And nothing you can say will change our minds.

I will not be putting a sign on the back of my Mercedes.


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## Rocky Fields (Jan 24, 2007)

Hey.

Legal ethanol production requires a permit from BATF. It is broken into categories as to how much you produce in a year. Fee varies accordingly.

You also may need a permit to store fuel on your property if you live in a residential area.

RF


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## Triffin (Apr 20, 2005)

Hate to rain on the parade here,

But even assuming that one could cost effectivly produce
their own ethanol; how are you going to carry enough for an
800 mile round trip ?? Better to just save your dollars and
buy fuel as per usual when you make that annual trip
to visit the family ..

Triff ..


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## ricky (Jul 31, 2006)

YuccaFlatsRanch said:


> "remember that you owe the government road tax on the fuel that you make that you use on public highways. "
> 
> This is where I have the most trouble. I don't think I OWE the Government anything, at least not voluntarily. Next I will OWE the government for producing my own food, and for catching my own rainwater.


NOW YOUR LEARNING :grump:


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