# double dew claws



## scholtefamily

Are there other breeds besides GP's that have a double dew claw in back?

Thanks!


----------



## mekasmom

Lundehund


----------



## R&R Farm

I can't answer about the other LGD breeds personally but I figure since my Anatolian has single dew claws there would at least occasionally be some born with doubles. I used to raise OMCBA Mountain Curs and it was a desirable thing to most Fanciers of that breed to have double dews on their dogs.....Mike


----------



## Goatress

Maremmas, Spanish Mastiffs, Pyrenean Mastiffs, Anatolian/Maremma crosses....have seen double dews on all of them, some none, some single. Don't know what gene decides what they get, but it's interesting in every breed have seen everything from nothing to singles and doubles. Doubles on one leg, single on the other. None on one leg, single on the other.


----------



## scholtefamily

We have a GP male who looks very majestic and has lots of long hair. We recently got a female and were told it was a GP. We did think it looked like one when we saw her, but she doesn't seem to have as long of hair on her back as our male, but she does have the double dew claw in back. Maybe I'll post a pic and see what you all think.


----------



## Oregon Julie

I think you can get hind dew claws and even doubles on lots of breeds, correct or not. I have had Parson Russell Terrier (Jack Russells) pups with double hind dew claws. Our current litter of LGD pups, 3/4 Anatolian and 1/4 Kuvasz had single and double hind dew claws, which I removed.


----------



## wendle

Briard


----------



## laughaha

Either Rotts or Dobes (can't remember which) but Angelbaby (rott/dobe) had a double and a triple back dewclaws. No clue why the idiots that bred the parents docked the tails of the puppies but didn't remove those- they were taken off when she was spayed- they were constantly getting caught in stuff (especially blankets).


----------



## ||Downhome||

My male wgsd has fully developed doubles on both his rear legs.


----------



## Oregon Julie

laughaha said:


> Either Rotts or Dobes (can't remember which) but Angelbaby (rott/dobe) had a double and a triple back dewclaws. No clue why the idiots that bred the parents docked the tails of the puppies but didn't remove those- they were taken off when she was spayed- they were constantly getting caught in stuff (especially blankets).


I think they get left behind because people aren't expecting them. I know they happen in my Parsons, but I have accidentally left them on pups over the years. Had a few removed as adults when they were spayed/neutered, but in a few cases they have stayed and I just keep them short and smooth with a Dremel and don't have any problems with them.


----------



## wolffeathers

On a random tidbit, I was watching one of those dogbreed education shows and they spoke of I believe it was the St.Bernard and their double dew claws.... "the double dew claws were designed to help give the dog traction on mountain terrain..."

Um, all the dewclaws I have seen, seem more of a hindrance, than a help. Am I wrong? Isn't that why many people remove them, to avoid them getting caught on stuff?

((Told you it was a bit random))


----------



## Wolf Flower

wolffeathers said:


> On a random tidbit, I was watching one of those dogbreed education shows and they spoke of I believe it was the St.Bernard and their double dew claws.... "the double dew claws were designed to help give the dog traction on mountain terrain..."
> 
> Um, all the dewclaws I have seen, seem more of a hindrance, than a help. Am I wrong? Isn't that why many people remove them, to avoid them getting caught on stuff?


Yeah, "traction on mountain terrain" is a bunch of bunk. Rear dewclaws don't have muscles in them like the other toes do, and so are pretty much useless for anything. If big and floppy, they tend to get caught and torn on stuff. 

Rear dewclaws show up on a lot of breeds, and are usually removed, but they are actually a requirement on Great Pyrs and some other breeds. My Akbash has them, but they are relatively small and well attached, so he doesn't get into trouble with them.


----------



## mekasmom

wolffeathers said:


> On a random tidbit, I was watching one of those dogbreed education shows and they spoke of I believe it was the St.Bernard and their double dew claws....


My st has single rear dew claws, so they must not all have the doubles. They were crossed with pyrs when distemper almost wiped them out way back, so the doubles make sense.


----------



## Goatress

Actually, hate to debunk y'all...grin....but one of my Maremma/Anatolians DOES use his double dews, which are huge, when climbing my 'no climb' fence, lol, to get to a ***** in heat. I've seen it! I've also seen old photos, again in a book on Pyrs, of Pyrs going up steep faces of cliffs and rocks, and they are so steep, the dog is using his rear dew claws. At least they are touching the ground appearing to grip soil.


----------



## Oregon Julie

Goatress said:


> Actually, hate to debunk y'all...grin....but one of my Maremma/Anatolians DOES use his double dews, which are huge, when climbing my 'no climb' fence, lol, to get to a ***** in heat. I've seen it! I've also seen old photos, again in a book on Pyrs, of Pyrs going up steep faces of cliffs and rocks, and they are so steep, the dog is using his rear dew claws. At least they are touching the ground appearing to grip soil.


I remove the hind dewclaws on all of my pups, but I have stopped removing fronts. I changed my view for a number of reasons. One of them being that we have a lot of dogs that have been sold to people doing agility with them and many of them wanted them on the front and felt that it compromised the strength of the front legs when they are removed. 

But the other reason was the working terrierman who was my mentor over in England for many years said he saw dogs use their dew claws in front when climbing out of tight spots while hunting. At the time he told this to me he had over 40 years experience working terriers and had no doubt forgotten more then many people would ever know on the subject. If it was good enough for him, it was good enough for me.


----------



## wolffeathers

Goatress said:


> Actually, hate to debunk y'all...grin....but one of my Maremma/Anatolians DOES use his double dews, which are huge, when climbing my 'no climb' fence, lol, to get to a ***** in heat. I've seen it! I've also seen old photos, again in a book on Pyrs, of Pyrs going up steep faces of cliffs and rocks, and they are so steep, the dog is using his rear dew claws. At least they are touching the ground appearing to grip soil.


He doesn't tear his dewclaws doing that? Is he intentionally using those claws for that purpose, or his he just going over the fence any way possible and the dewclaws just conveniantly catch in his attempts?(Calculated use versus conveniant) LOL I'm not trying to say you're wrong! I'm quite fascinated with it!

Goose has doubles on both his hind feet, but they appear so floppy I'm sure if he caught them on anything and tried to support his weight, he'd rip them right off. ((Good thing he has two modes, sleeping and sprawling LOL))


----------



## Wolf Flower

Oregon Julie said:


> But the other reason was the working terrierman who was my mentor over in England for many years said he saw dogs use their dew claws in front when climbing out of tight spots while hunting.


Front dewclaws *do* have muscle and ligament attachments. You can see it when a dog is flexing his toes; I see it all the time when trimming dogs' toenails and they refuse to relax their foot, it's like they're making a fist.


----------



## Oregon Julie

Wolf Flower said:


> Front dewclaws *do* have muscle and ligament attachments. You can see it when a dog is flexing his toes; I see it all the time when trimming dogs' toenails and they refuse to relax their foot, it's like they're making a fist.


Been there, done that. Groomed dogs for a number of years and I use a Dremel to shorten nails. Lots of them are good at curling that dewclaw so that it is tough to get to. Thankfully most got to a point where they realized that the Dremeling was much easier going then the cutting and would relax enough to make it much easier.


----------



## mekasmom

Oregon Julie said:


> I remove the hind dewclaws on all of my pups.


You remove the doubles on pyrs? That's part of the breed standard. I understand removing back ones on other breeds, but I had never heard of anyone removing the double rear on pyrs? Is it common to have that done in some areas?


----------



## Oregon Julie

mekasmom said:


> You remove the doubles on pyrs? That's part of the breed standard. I understand removing back ones on other breeds, but I had never heard of anyone removing the double rear on pyrs? Is it common to have that done in some areas?


I don't have Pyrs, actually nor would I, too much coat. I remove them from the Parson Russell Terrier pups and for the occasional litter of ASD or ASD/Kuvasz litters that we have. The current litter of 3/4 ASD 1/4 Kuv had hind dewclaws on half the pups, a few of them double. All came off at a couple of days of age.


----------



## mekasmom

That I understand. I thought you meant the pyrs doubles. Thanks.


----------



## HappyFarmer

My pyrs seem to have muscle in their double dews. They are not flimsy flimsy, but not exactly solid either. I see what appears to be them using them every once in a while.

We've never observed them catching them on anything, and they are all still intact so I don't see a problem with them.

HF


----------

