# HELP! Dry Canning Pinto Beans = PROBLEM



## Murby (May 24, 2016)

Trying to do something I've never done before and having an issue.

We are attempting to dry can pinto beans. I bought 25 lbs of them from the local bulk food place (sam's club). 

I'm using 1/2 gallon mason jars. We hand wash them, let them air dry, then put the empty jars into the oven at 225Â° for 30 minutes to an hour.

We remove the jars, fill with beans, and put them back into the oven at 225Â° and cook for 60 minutes. 

We remove jars, put caps and rings on. 

30 minutes later, I can see moisture drops on the glass walls of the jars.. 
What's going on?


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

I have not heard of canning anything this way..........
And half gallon jars are a no no
This is how I do them


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

Murby said:


> Trying to do something I've never done before and having an issue.
> 
> We are attempting to dry can pinto beans. I bought 25 lbs of them from the local bulk food place (sam's club).
> 
> ...


Wishing only to be direct and not rude, what you are doing is creating a perfect haven for botulism toxin by not-so-dry canning a moist, non-acidic product in an anaerobic environment. You're also wasting a lot of your beans!

I keep dry beans just as I purchased them, stored in the big bags they came in. Yes, they will probably get hard over time. That is easily remedied by either pressure cooking or pressure canning. 

If you want the convenience of just grabbing a finished product off the shelf, pressure can them. If you want almost as much convenience, pressure cook them before you add them to your recipes. In both cases, your beans will be fine and not hard. I say this with the personal experience of beans I have stored and used for more than a decade.

If you are worried about protecting them from rodents or other pests (nothing I have to deal with), carry on vacuum-"canning" as you are, but skip the rinsing and re-drying steps. You'll never get them dry enough to vacuum-"can" safely.

Please follow safe canning practices, always!


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Reread your post. I have a vacuum sealer and an attachment that will seal the jars after sucking the air out. I have done this with dry beans, but did not wash them first.


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## arrocks (Oct 26, 2011)

As Raeven said what you are trying to do is in no way approved or considered safe practice for food in any form. If what you want is long term storage of DRY beans - which will store for at least a year with no special treatment - then either freeze them or vacuum seal them in food-safe containers of appropriate size.

If you are trying to do this with *cooked* beans then the toxic risks are very high.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

Here is what we have decided to do.. 
1. Wash jars (1/2 gallon) and air dry.
2. Put empty jars in oven at 225Â° for 45 minutes.
3. Let oven cool to 180 and remove jars and then fill with dry goods (pasta, beans, rice, etc)
4. Place jars back into oven at 225Â° until just the glass heats back up (this is to make sure the glass is hot enough to soften the lid seal, not to heat the food)
5. Remove 1 jar at a time, insert 300cc oxygen absorbing packet and place dome-lid on and then vacuum past 29in/hg using a food saver vacuum cap and a commercial rotary vane vacuum pump designed for evacuating air condition systems. (Pulls entire vacuum in under 5 seconds). 

Per this link, I think we're doing it right..
http://extension.usu.edu/foodstorage/htm/dry-beans

For the rice


> Storage Conditions. The best temperature to store grains, including rice, is 40Â°F or below; however, rice stored at a constant 70Â° F with oxygen absorbers will store well for up to 10 years. In cooler storage areas rice sealed in oxygen-free containers can be stored for up to 30 years. A BYU study sampling polished rice and parboiled rice stored from 1 to 30 years found that both types of rice will keep their nutrients and flavor up to 30 years.


For the beans


> Storage Conditions. Beans in normal polyethylene (food-grade) bags have a shelf life of 1 year or more. Like most stored foods, colder storage temperatures will increase shelf life. When packaged in #10 cans or Mylar-type bags, with the oxygen removed, they have a shelf life of 10 or more years1. A 1BYU. study indicated that pinto beans did experience a slight loss of quality during storage. However, samples that had been stored up to 30 years had greater than 80 percent acceptance by a consumer taste panel for emergency food use. The study concluded that pinto beans should be considered acceptable for use in long-term food storage efforts.


We will also be doing pasta, oatmeal, instant rice, and a few other dried foods. 

We're also soaking some of the pinto beans for normal pressure canning.. it might be nice to have some beans ready to go at a moments notice..


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

What I do.

Put unwashed dry goods in clean/dry jars and vacuum seal.

I use this method also.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

po boy said:


> What I do.
> 
> Put unwashed dry goods in clean/dry jars and vacuum seal.
> 
> I use this method also.


Plastic PETE bottles are great for moisture barriers, but they are poor oxygen barriers. I store sugar and salt in 2 liter bottles as oxygen doesn't degrade either of them. 

Probably much better than leaving beans or stuff in a plastic bag, but I'm after longer term storage than that.. If I can't get it to keep for 10 years then I need to figure something else out.

I so need a freeze dryer machine!


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## arrocks (Oct 26, 2011)

> Per this link, I think we're doing it right..
> http://extension.usu.edu/foodstorage/htm/dry-beans


Just for clarification, the article you linked doesn't advocate or even mention, dry oven canning such as you describe.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

arrocks said:


> Just for clarification, the article you linked doesn't advocate or even mention, dry oven canning such as you describe.


We call that a terminology fart! LOL

I'm not real familiar with any other type of canning except pressure canning.. We do hundreds upon hundreds of jars in the pressure canner, and I've designed industrial food processing equipment along the same lines.. But some foods needed for long term "prepper" storage are better stored dry. 

To that end, the oven is just used to sterilize the jars.. I wouldn't "oven can" anything I intended to eat right out of the jar.. Things like pasta, beans, rice, etc.. all undergo long cooking times and are stored in such a dry condition that the real nasty stuff like botulism doesn't have a chance.

What I have discovered, experimenting for the last couple days, is that if one chooses to sterilize the product by heating it, you must also allow it to cool in the air so that any moisture is allowed to evaporate rather then condense on the cool surface of the jar, as we experienced. 

The other thing I discovered is that there is a world of difference between a food saver machine and a real vacuum pump. Per the youtube video's which test the food saver, I discovered its maximum vacuum is 20 inches Hg, and that was only achieved after 3 cycles on the same jar! Even a cheap harbor freight rotary vane vacuum designed to evacuate air conditioning systems, will go all the way to 29 or 29.5 inches HG.. That's a world of difference.... Toss in an oxygen absorber into that and the contents should be good for at least 20+ years and probably nearly indefinitely for rice.

I'm a bit worried about trying to vacuum pack flour into 1/2 gallon jars though...


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## arrocks (Oct 26, 2011)

Perhaps you mean it is just semantics but


> We hand wash them, let them air dry, then put the empty jars into the oven at 225Â° for 30 minutes to an hour. We remove the jars, fill with beans, and put them back into the oven at 225Â° and cook for 60 minutes.


is called dry oven canning and is not considered safe to do for several reasons. So when you referenced the link above the implication was that the dry oven canning you are doing was included in that article. I merely point out that it isn't. As the article linked points out the recommended long term dry storage of dry goods is mylar bags, #10 cans, or canning jars and minimal O2 exposure. Vacuum sealing to any degree will prolonged the nutrient retention.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

arrocks said:


> Perhaps you mean it is just semantics but
> 
> *is called dry oven canning and is not considered safe to do for several reasons. *So when you referenced the link above the implication was that the dry oven canning you are doing was included in that article. I merely point out that it isn't. As the article linked points out the recommended long term dry storage of dry goods is mylar bags, #10 cans, or canning jars and minimal O2 exposure. Vacuum sealing to any degree will prolonged the nutrient retention.


Why? How would the bacterial load on a dry oven canning method (as is commonly described), be any different, or create a higher risk, than just putting the food in a bag?
I'm no expert on botulism but I highly doubt the little buggers care whether they're in a bag or a glass jar.. 

What am I missing?


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## GreenT (Feb 2, 2017)

http://www.healthycanning.com/oven-canning

Why wouldn't you just use Mylar bags and save some time? I don't get it


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

GreenT said:


> http://www.healthycanning.com/oven-canning
> 
> Why wouldn't you just use Mylar bags and save some time? I don't get it


Mice can chew through Mylar bags so they have to have another container to be stored in. Not a huge issue, but still an issue.

Mylar bags are expensive on their own.. 

And here's another fact.. When I Vacuum-can (lets not call it dry-canning as it causes too much confusion) a 1/2 gallon glass jar, I can use an oxygen absorber that is 75% smaller (or more!) than what is required for a Mylar bag.. In fact, if I want to let the vacuum run for a bit longer, I don't even really need an oxygen absorber. 

Those oxygen absorbers are also very expensive! 

There's more than one way to skin a cat... Mylar bags have their benefits but for my purposes, the glass jars are better..


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## GreenT (Feb 2, 2017)

Ok, I see. Yeah we used Mylar in 5 gal buckets but I see what you mean


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

GreenT said:


> Ok, I see. Yeah we used Mylar in 5 gal buckets but I see what you mean


I might pack a few Mylar bags up.. If we ever have to travel, I don't think glass jars would be very convenient to carry.
Its one of those things Mylar has over the canning method.. Portability can be important.


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## WildernesFamily (Mar 11, 2006)

Murby, you are hand washing the JARS and not the beans, right? 

I think some people are misreading your OP and think you're hand washing and air drying the beans.


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

WildernesFamily said:


> Murby, you are hand washing the JARS and not the beans, right?
> 
> I think some people are misreading your OP and think you're hand washing and air drying the beans.


LOL, I was one of those who misunderstood that part until I reread the OP a couple days later. Sorry about that, *Murby*. But either way, if you have condensation in your jars after you've vacuum-sealed, it wouldn't go well for your beans.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

WildernesFamily said:


> Murby, you are hand washing the JARS and not the beans, right?
> 
> I think some people are misreading your OP and think you're hand washing and air drying the beans.


LOL.. That would be a serious brain fart! 

For the record, I am not washing to beans.. In fact, before we started canning, I cranked up the dehumidifier to drop the moisture levels in the house..


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

Raeven said:


> LOL, I was one of those who misunderstood that part until I reread the OP a couple days later. Sorry about that, *Murby*. But either way, if you have condensation in your jars after you've vacuum-sealed, it wouldn't go well for your beans.


I think I discovered what the problem was.. 
Originally, we put the beans in the jars and then put them into the oven to heat up the jars and the beans.. the idea is to kill any bugs that might be on them.. 

This is a mistake.. What ends up happening when you pull a vacuum on the jar is that any water that is left in the hot beans will boil out of the beans due to the low boiling point of water under vacuum. There's not much moisture in dry beans to begin with (not nearly enough for botulism anyhow), but apparently, heating them to 160 degrees and then applying heavy vacuum is enough to get even more water out of them.

In the end, we took the beans back out of those failed jars and made pork and bean soup from them.. then pressure canned at 15psi for 90 minutes as one would for any meat product.. We raised the pigs and cured the hams ourselves too! The pork and bean soup is delicious! First time I tried making it myself and its awesome!

We have since modified our procedures.. Wash the jars, bake in oven at 225 until hot and dry.. then fill with cold beans.. the beans will cool the jars off so we put them back into the hot oven.. this time we leave them there just long enough for the glass jar to heat up. This is done so it helps the lid seal melt when we put it on.

Once the jars heat up just to a point where you can't grab them with your bare hand, we pull one jar out at a time, insert oxygen absorber, put the cap on, and then use a rotary vane vacuum pump and the food saver device to pull the jars down to 27.5 in/hg. 

So far, all seals hold perfectly and no sign of any moisture at all..

Those pork and beans are so good we've decided to make another 50 quarts of them! Going to have to buy more beans and cure another ham.


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## Jax (May 23, 2020)

Murby said:


> Trying to do something I've never done before and having an issue.
> 
> We are attempting to dry can pinto beans. I bought 25 lbs of them from the local bulk food place (sam's club).
> 
> ...


Well, from what I understand canning bean, rice etc... is a no go because any moisture well make them expand and break jars...so you definately should not wash them.


Murby said:


> Trying to do something I've never done before and having an issue.
> 
> We are attempting to dry can pinto beans. I bought 25 lbs of them from the local bulk food place (sam's club).
> 
> ...


Well, from what I understand of the canning science so far you should not have washed the beans first...because and moisture can cause beans, rice, pasta etc to expand and break your jars. So I used the technique these folks show in this video (



) because it seems to adhere to the canning science I've learned from Ball, USDA and NIFA instruction guides (you know....minus the fact that Ball, the USDA and NIFA are all saying you shouldn't be trying to "can" beans anyway  lol )


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## Jax (May 23, 2020)

Ok...not sure how i posted those last two without trying but...moving right along....
I wanted to specifically point out that I did not wash my pinto bean and did moisture/water religiously...
I took these 6oz jars out of the over after 2hrs at 225 degrees... neither water nor critters/micro orgs should be able to survive that...any things possible but the technique of heat cleansing is pretty sound...
POINT: I did what they showed in this video (



) and all 12 of my lids popped down flawless, I did not see moisture in the rice jars but I DID GET MOISTURE in the Pinto bean Jars What the hell? I feel confident in the rice but I'm iffy as hell with a the moisture in the pinto bean jars....
PS somebody let me know you're seeing these posts :|


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Jax said:


> Ok...not sure how i posted those last two without trying but...moving right along....
> I wanted to specifically point out that I did not wash my pinto bean and did moisture/water religiously...
> I took these 6oz jars out of the over after 2hrs at 225 degrees... neither water nor critters/micro orgs should be able to survive that...any things possible but the technique of heat cleansing is pretty sound...
> POINT: I did what they showed in this video (
> ...


I see your posts but you probably want to post your own thread since this one is 3 years old.


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