# Home Defense without guns



## Herbwifemama (Jan 2, 2011)

I'm not suggesting not to have guns to defend your home, but I was wondering what OTHER things people do to protect/harden their home. Especially cheap things. I think having a security system goes without saying. I'd like to make my home seem an unlikely/not worth it target, so I never have to USE the gun, kwim?

Here are some ideas I have: fence the property, and plant thorny things along the fence. Plant thorny things under windows. Get a guard dog.

Umm... I'm out of ideas. Are there books about this type of thing?

ETA: my home is not in the country, it's in the middle of the city on a fairly busy street corner. We get people walking by our house all the time, and recently a guy stopped by and said he used to know the people who live in our house, and he noticed we got new windows, does it have an attic and a basement, etc? I don't think he was casing the place, but he easily could have been. And while people don't stop and question me about the layout of my house all the time, people DO walk by all the time. So, urban-feasible ideas are really what I'm looking for, but all ideas are welcome.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

I've seen some suggest putting up the home security system signs even when you don't have the service. This is a sign I like.


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

I saw a show last night where folks made a board full of screws and laid it across the door step when they left for more than a day...
Something stepped on it... ouch!


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## ketthes (Jul 31, 2012)

I've heard that a strategically-placed bee hive is a good deterrent.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Darren said:


> I've seen some suggest putting up the home security system signs even when you don't have the service. This is a sign I like.


That just tells potential theives there may be guns in the house when you *AREN'T* at home.

It will also be used *against* you if you DO have to shoot someone


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

window and door grills made of expanded steel , easy to open from the inside , very hard to open from the outside.

fences are good if you lock the gates , they discourage entry where you can't see it 

put the door bell on the outside of the gate 


a clean but not showing anything special in appearance


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## Tinga (Jul 24, 2011)

Great question. I was just thinking of this when I was trying to get our oldest asleep last night. He goes to sleep on the couch and usually we have the windows closed. But with it being so HOT, we opened them a hair.

What I did was:
1. Buy some inexpensive alarms. The kind that if they break contact they squeal. Get several brands if you can. This way you know by the sound, where in the house is the breach. i.e that the chirping is the back door, the whistle is the bedrooms or east side of the house.

2. Jars or decorative cans filled with marbles or bells inside window sill. IF!! You must have windows open, use an alarm on top or on the side. In my kitchen the windows are pretty high up, so I leave them open alot. I use some decorative fancy girly glass jars filled with extra Christmas bells, marbles and tacks. 

Of course this is in ADDITION, to our home defense weapons
but.. you get the idea


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Our primary non-gun defense is dogs. As in *dogs*, not dog. We have 4 right now. A livestock guardian, DH has a little barky shop dog and then two menacing house dogs. One is a property protector and is fearsome when she needs to be and the other is my personal body dog. He stays with me all the time. If something were to happen, the dogs would begin the uproar, thus giving time to go for the guns.

When I did live in the city, I was robbed on more than one occasion, while my dogs sat by and watched. Ah, the mistake of having pitbulls, as they are worthless property guardians. After the last house pit died, I got a dane. Not a dog you want to screw with.

Personally, I don't think much else would be very effective except maybe bars on the windows, or some kind of alarm system as already suggested, but then again, bars also trap you in, and if a robber, or a 'zombie' for that matter sets off your alarm system, and you have no guns and are not capable with a sword or bo-staff, then what? 

Just because you have a jar of marbles to clatter upon the floor doesn't mean the killer will run away.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

When I owned an apartment building, I put bolts on the inside of the double hung windows that prevented them from being opened more than 6 inches. The tenant could slide them to a position where the window would open all the way. The bolts could not be reached from the outside. Of course, if someone really wanted in they could break the window but that would make a lot of noise.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

dowels cut to fit the window tracks so it can open only as far as you allow. place lawn decorations & hedges so movement is channelized into a position where they have to be visible from inside the house. a cattle prod, if you have to use it it'll hit harder than most tasers and gives you a little distance. a fishing/frog spear on a 5-7 foot shaft or a real spear head for lethal effect ( i have my hunting spear handy it is a cold steel assegai on a 5 ft hardwood shaft). short machete or camp axe is a good choice for closer wet work that'll give you more range & damage than a knife. for plausible deniability in a community where litigation could go against you, take a walk through lowes, home depot etc and eyeball tools that could effectively replace purpose made weapons.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Store the following on your back porch or stoop: (1) a size 13 or 14 pair of used hunting boots and (2) a very large dog food bowl with the name "Killer" on it. Toss several empty shotgun shells around the yard. And finally, hang an xx-large flannel shirt and a large pair of bib overalls on the clothesline.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

ROFL I sure like CF's suggestions.

If I were in your shoes (in town), I would create a nice way of keeping all windows and sliding doors locked and run a nice little electric wire from door to door that I could plug in at night.


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## AdamfromNW (Apr 16, 2012)

I know it is cliche, but it is soooo true. The best defense against criminals, whether your at home or elsewhere, is good situational awareness. On the street you can often avoid confrontations when you see trouble coming, at home this may not be true, but you will always be better off if you know something is coming. You can't be %100 aware all the time though, so I think the best way to increase your situational awareness is to just continuously train yourself to do little things until they become automatic. For example, every time you step out on the porch make yourself do one visual scan across the field of view and actually look for anything that doesn't match the norm, eventually this will just become automatic. People actually do this kind of thing anyway at some level, but you can make it into a more thorough function by practice. As far as not being home no matter what you do, if someone is determined enough, they can rob your house. Just my two cents.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Cabin Fever said:


> Store the following on your back porch or stoop: (1) a size 13 or 14 pair of used hunting boots and (2) a very large dog food bowl with the name "Killer" on it. Toss several empty shotgun shells around the yard. And finally, hang an xx-large flannel shirt and a large pair of bib overalls on the clothesline.


Killer might be too obvioous a ploy, i'd go with tiny or muffin on a small horse feed bucket & a 5 gal water bucket.:happy2:


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## tgmr05 (Aug 27, 2007)

A guy not too far away, has some different sized smaller cannons around his house. Uses them on the 4th and New Years to make some noise. Looks very intimidating, though, the rest of the year....


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

It all comes down to deterrents and barriers for passive and on the active side it comes to arms and force multipliers


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## desnri (Dec 22, 2003)

Baseball bat!


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

one problem i see with baseball bats , when I was in 8th grade we had a batter charge the mound he took a swing at the pitcher , the pitch was a bit on the inside but nothing that called for a charge of the mound the batter had a real temper problem and likely has spent some years in prison by now he wasn't very smart either.

the batter was of average 5' 9"and probably 150-165 pounds the pitcher was 5' 6" and 130-140 pounds the pitcher caught the bat sure it broke a bunch of the bones in his hand but it wasn't a game changer he wasn't "stopped" and could have stabbed or shot the batter had is other hand not been in his glove and had he been armed these were 13 or 14 year old students 

this was 8th grade gym class now put a bat up against a bigger stronger assailant and there is a good potential that they could take that bat from you 

in any hand to hand combat there is a great potential for either side and both sides to be injured 

encase you have never seen what it looks like when a 275 pound 6 foot 2 inch guy of muscular build goes up against a 130-150 pound person of average build with no special martial arts training , think rag doll 

so stay behind your barriers call for help and avoid contact


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I keep a can of pepper spray and tear gas combo by my front door. May not do much to slow down the crack heads but it's not my only line of defense.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> one problem i see with baseball bats , when I was in 8th grade we had a batter charge the mound he took a swing at the pitcher , the pitch was a bit on the inside but nothing that called for a charge of the mound the batter had a real temper problem and likely has spent some years in prison by now he wasn't very smart either.
> 
> the batter was of average 5' 9"and probably 150-165 pounds the pitcher was 5' 6" and 130-140 pounds the pitcher caught the bat sure it broke a bunch of the bones in his hand but it wasn't a game changer he wasn't "stopped" and could have stabbed or shot the batter had is other hand not been in his glove and had he been armed these were 13 or 14 year old students
> 
> ...


i'm going to disagree. if Marine Corp success has taught me anything it is the high success rate of extreme aggression. an aggressive response will do far more for you than trying to keep the couch between you & them.
a bat isn't my first choice but ANY weapon is better than none. i understand what you're saying but that experience is definitely an anomoly. I saw a guy get a baseball sized chunk of his skull knocked off w/ a wooden bat. that result is a lot more common.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

It takes the cops half an hour to get here on a good night. I'm going to do everything I can to disable an invader before they can get to me.

Another suggestion to protect yourself in your home, install deadbolt locks and _use_ them. Lock your doors even if you are inside.

And please don't start any arguments about how horrible it would be to have to keep your doors and windows locked at all times (which usually happens when someone suggests that). Yes it is horrible but it is the best way to protect yourself from someone just walking into your home.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Pops2 said:


> i'm going to disagree. if Marine Corp success has taught me anything it is the high success rate of extreme aggression. an aggressive response will do far more for you than trying to keep the couch between you & them.
> a bat isn't my first choice but ANY weapon is better than none. i understand what you're saying but that experience is definitely an anomoly. I saw a guy get a baseball sized chunk of his skull knocked off w/ a wooden bat. that result is a lot more common.


i wouldn't choose a bat as my first choice either , and that is what i was saying

the guy who got a bat size chuck of skull removed was the person swinging the bat even stature with a 125 pound middle aged woman or were they much larger, bigger 

when i said barrier i should have said locked metal exterior security door with dead bolt i most certainly did not mean a couch if they are already in your house and you can't leave or have children you have little to loose hitting them with anything and everything you can.

if they get thru the door absolutely hit them with anything and everything you have bat golf club ,stove poker 

but don't open the door for them

i would try to keep them on their side of the door , i am just saying know your limitations to often people rely on the intimidation factor to much

a bat can and will absolutely break bones and if you get a head or neck hit you may stop someone but if they can deflect or catch the bat they still have another hand 

broken bones are bad but look at how many athletes finish races on broken bones, it just isn't a show stopper unless it is a spine or brain hit


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

the guy w/ the bat was a little hispanic guy about 5'2" & 120#. the guy that lost his skull & his life was black about 6' and close to 200#. first the little guy broke his arm, then his knee and then his head. i didn't see what started it but i saw the "fight." the big guy tried to step forward & catch the bat. the little guy stepped back while he swung. caught the big guy right behind the wrist. when the big guy reacted to the break his legs were wide open so the little guy nailed the left knee. while the big guy was on the ground trying to get up, the little guy took a chunk off his skull. whole fight from the approach of the little guy to busting the other guy's skull was about 10 seconds or less.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Pops2 said:


> the guy w/ the bat was a little hispanic guy about 5'2" & 120#. the guy that lost his skull & his life was black about 6' and close to 200#. first the little guy broke his arm, then his knee and then his head. i didn't see what started it but i saw the "fight." the big guy tried to step forward & catch the bat. the little guy stepped back while he swung. caught the big guy right behind the wrist. when the big guy reacted to the break his legs were wide open so the little guy nailed the left knee. while the big guy was on the ground trying to get up, the little guy took a chunk off his skull. whole fight from the approach of the little guy to busting the other guy's skull was about 10 seconds or less.


sounds like the little guy was versed in the use of a bat 

also most Hispanic men i have met that are 120 pounds because they are lean not because they are weak 

the bat is a very formidable weapon in the hands of someone who knows how to use it , but i wouldn't recommend it as anything more than a backup to a failed plan to keep them on their side of the door , I wouldn't recommend it to my mother or my grand mother as a first choice of defensive weapon.

trying to keep in mind that many here are older , or have health issues 

if i was going to recommend a non gun form of defense i would start out with , keeping alert preparing for things before they happen , not opening yourself up to risk unnecessarily keeping the barriers in place like doors locked , don't open the door to answer 

this actually doesn't change if you include a gun in your plan 

but if you don't have a gun in your plan my next line of defense would be a can of bear spray this is more potent than standard pepper spray comes in a larger can and sprays further 

then a club/bat in hand a planned run to another door that can be locked where is phone is available 

hopefully if all your caution and procedure keep you from ever needing any of it beyond a plan and the door


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

I was managing an apt building in Boston when I found what looked like a real spear in the basement. I showed it to a tenant from Botswana, and he got all excited, saying, "that is a bushman's nine millimeter", he was right. It is an awesome weapon. It is not for throwing, but a 6 foot staff with a butcher knife blade on the end, a very sharp knife with a 6 foot handle, if you will Take a dry hickory staff, and an Old Hickory butcher knife, sharpen both sides of the blade, remove the handles and affix it to the end of the staff with 16d nails for rivets. Wrap the end in fine wire to prevent splitting. You now have a bushman's 9mm. 
In close combat, a staff is a big plus. More so when it has a blade on the end. Practice with it.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Good locks, lights by the doors, motionsensor lights in dark areas (backyard, driveway) and a pair of Dobermans. Works pretty well. Get one of those "protected by ABC security" signs and put it out front. Even though those systems are a waste of time and money.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

vicker said:


> I was managing an apt building in Boston when I found what looked like a real spear in the basement. I showed it to a tenant from Botswana, and he got all excited, saying, "that is a bushman's nine millimeter", he was right. It is an awesome weapon. It is not for throwing, but a 6 foot staff with a butcher knife blade on the end, a very sharp knife with a 6 foot handle, if you will Take a dry hickory staff, and an Old Hickory butcher knife, sharpen both sides of the blade, remove the handles and affix it to the end of the staff with 16d nails for rivets. Wrap the end in fine wire to prevent splitting. You now have a bushman's 9mm.
> In close combat, a staff is a big plus. More so when it has a blade on the end. Practice with it.


i have a cold steel assegai. it is mostly my bear hunting spear but i'd be very comfortable using it against a person.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

i have an uncle who is a fan of these bars that hold your door shut 

Buddybar Door Jammer - Amazon.com

he worked for the city and tested with the police department when they were given use of a appartment building that was going to be torn down , they had dozens of doors to test with all the same , they started by showing just how easy it was the kick in most apartment building doors even with the dead bolt locked , then they tested a number of different devices 

he was very impressed by these devices and has one on every exterior door on his house

i know his have a handle similar to the one in the link not sure what brand his are. 

it apparently took much longer to break down the door if the device was in use


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

JJ Grandits said:


> Good locks, lights by the doors, motionsensor lights in dark areas (backyard, driveway) and a pair of Dobermans. Works pretty well. Get one of those "protected by ABC security" signs and put it out front. Even though those systems are a waste of time and money.


if you expect the dogs to engage the threat AND fight through pain & injury you'd be better off with belgian mals & dutch sheperds or well bred bandogs.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I am thinking that a person who is uninterested in including a gun in there plan , would also be unwilling to use the lethal force necessary to stop a person with another weapon bat, spear, club , or other 

perhaps the OP could weigh in on this , would you be willing to use lethal force , as long as it was done with out the use of a firearm?


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> i have an uncle who is a fan of these bars that hold your door shut
> 
> Buddybar Door Jammer - Amazon.com
> 
> ...


Yep, those things really work. We had similar locks on the doors in an apt. building I managed in Boston. You'd have to tear the door to pieces to get past it.
There are better types though, that have hardware mounted on the door and floor that the bar fits in. They are keyed for entry and locking from the outside.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Going to add door jammers to the shopping list. Nice! Of course someone could always just break in the picture window. Probably just to get shot when halfway inside.

I personally would have no problem using lethal force against an intruder. I don't like the idea of leaving an invader alive and capable of coming back for revenge.


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## uncommon_skills (Aug 20, 2012)

One of the best ways to keep people away from something is to make it less interesting. The best idea I have heard to keep people out of a garden (a bike path nearby was leading to lots of stolen tomatoes) was a sign that said "Look out for the wasps nest". Another great idea was planting stinging nettles (though these do not look pretty, and can get too tall for a place in the city). Both of these ideas give the impression that there is nothing to protect, but it isn't worth finding out.

Roses (especially dog roses or rugosas) might be a great idea, as they are thorny, make a hedge, and would not look out of place in the middle of the city.

uncommonskills


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## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

As silly as it sounds a good light can buy some extra time to react to a home invasion. I have a one million candle power lantern I bought at Bass Pro, shine that in a persons face and it will disable them for a bit. I know that for sure, I had my wife shine me with it and I couldn't see a thing for a minute or two.

I don't want my Pyrs to attack or defend against human intruders, all I expect from them is a warning, I will take it from there.


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

Well, different circumstances, of course, but in the words of my Old Sarg. 
"If you got 'em, Smoke 'em!"

I Don't have any tender feelings about using adequate force to defend my Home, Family or myself. I am going to use all force necessary and available to take care of the business at hand. So, I have a few "force multipliers" situated at various strategic places in my home, Thank You.


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## Lauri (Sep 20, 2008)

Thank you for posting these suggestions. 

Recent life changes have warranted extra protection. 

I bought one of the door jammer things, but was not sure if it would really be effective.

I like hearing that you feel it is.


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## Gregg Alexander (Feb 18, 2007)

Cut to the chase, 1 pittbull, 1 old hog dog, both in the yard and when we are gone for more than a day, they go inside. So if you make it out of the yard the old coot with the 1911 is just inside the door when he is at home.


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## AJohnston (Aug 17, 2012)

What kind of fencing were you thinking about putting around the house? Keeping thorny types of foliage set up around the fencing is generally a good deterant, but for those that are prepared with gloves and a heavy coat, it may not do any good. 

Depending on what height of fencing your city says is okay, some guys may be able to jump it unless you put some bushes behind it that they would have to make a long jump without tumbling into the bushes and slowing them down. 

Put up a no tresspassing sign on the fences, plus security signs. That will generally deter people. 

And if you use wooden fencing, you can hammer nails so that they poke out of the top of the fencing. Someone grabs a hold of it to jump/climb over will highly regret doing so, even if they have gloves on. However, if you have neighborhood children, you may ---- off a couple of parents from kids and have the police called on you for having the hazard. Or you could do something a little more expensive:

Wall Spike Fence | Huatong Wall Spikes Co.

I don't know about you, but if I saw that on top of a fence, I wouldn't go near it.


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## hismrsfinnegan (Sep 9, 2012)

My children have mental health issues, therefore, I do not have guns (too afraid they would use them on me or themselves if I did). Maybe when I am on my own in a few years, a shotgun could be had. I know this sounds horrible, but for me, just keeping my doors locked and even closed during the day would be a start! I live on a small street where I am usually the only resident home during the day. I really should ask the landlord to put deadbolts on the doors, or at least give us permission to do it. My husband has Stage IV lung cancer and doesn't have long to live, and defense is the one thing we never discussed. I have been thinking Tasers, good KNIVES (I was a chef for a long time so I know how to BUTCHER!). I like the idea of bear spray vs. pepper spray (just have to hope no intruders decide to be wearing a gas mask?). While my 83 yr old mother lives in NJ with her alarm system on at all times, and neighbors to watch over her, I feel a little overwhelmed thinking of security for me and my 2 sons on my own, and the only other option I considered was a bow and arrow (silent and could be deadly but not in a home invasion).


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I have been thinking of making a hedge out of prickly pears.
Already have them, just have to move them where I want them.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

hismrsfinnegan said:


> My children have mental health issues, therefore, I do not have guns (too afraid they would use them on me or themselves if I did). Maybe when I am on my own in a few years, a shotgun could be had. I know this sounds horrible, but for me, just keeping my doors locked and even closed during the day would be a start! I live on a small street where I am usually the only resident home during the day. I really should ask the landlord to put deadbolts on the doors, or at least give us permission to do it. My husband has Stage IV lung cancer and doesn't have long to live, and defense is the one thing we never discussed. I have been thinking Tasers, good KNIVES (I was a chef for a long time so I know how to BUTCHER!). I like the idea of bear spray vs. pepper spray (just have to hope no intruders decide to be wearing a gas mask?). While my 83 yr old mother lives in NJ with her alarm system on at all times, and neighbors to watch over her, I feel a little overwhelmed thinking of security for me and my 2 sons on my own, and the only other option I considered was a bow and arrow (silent and could be deadly but not in a home invasion).



bear spray or a pepper spray might be an option . i your case i would opt for a smaller container or 2 that you kept on you 

the solution to guns and kids it to lock it up where it is useless in a hurry , or to carry it on you secured in a proper holster 

no matter how many guns one might have around the house , none is likely to be faster to get to than the one holsters at your side 


but avoidance is always the first direction to go . I would definitely ask your land lord to install dead bolts at each outside entrance 

dead bolts is one place security officials disagree , some say use the type with a key on both sides as it makes it more difficult for a burglar to get out after he has climbed thru a window to get in , but fire officials all agree they need to have the lever to open them on the inside , so that your not trapped against a locked door

it is required in the fire code in many places that the door be operable from the inside 

a good flash light is also a good idea bright power full , 120+ lumens some say 200 is the new threshold for being a good blinder , but 120 really lights up a room well and you can see almost like the lights are on

remember that in making a house hard to get into you don't want to make it hard to get out of every bedroom needs a point of egress . and several smoke detectors around the house


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