# black larvae



## Oregonsparkie (Sep 3, 2003)

I just noticed in my OBS hive that one frame has a bunch of black larvae. Anyone have any idea what it might be??

Heres a pic of the larvae, its the second picture down from the top.
http://oregonsparkie.tripod.com/

Im really worried


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## james dilley (Mar 21, 2004)

They might have a virus or be dead???


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## bare (May 10, 2002)

Eww, I've never seen that either, but I've heard of it in connection with sac brood. Maybe it's time for a bit of googling.


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## justgojumpit (May 5, 2003)

oh no, this does not look good.

i believe you have either american or european foulbrood. to decide which it is, poke a wooden skewer into one of the affected cells, and see if the larvae sticks to it, and becomes ropey, like stretched bubble gum when you pull the skewer back out. if so, you have American Foul Brood. if not, you have European Foul Brood. check into it for yourself, but i am 99% positive that this is the case. if it is, you need to wait until nightfall, when all the bees are back home and kill all of your bees with an insecticide. then remove the hive, intact, to a pit about two feet deep with a hot fire burning in it. burn the lot. this is the only way to make sure you don't spread the spores to other hives. I'm sorry to be the one to give you the bad news. if this were a regular hive, with new hive bodies, you could save at least the hive bodies and other new woodenware (not the frames) by setting the hive bodies, stacked on top of one another, on a brick to hold each bottom corner off the ground for air flow. paint the inside and outside of each hive body with kerosine, put some crumpled newspapers inside the stack of hive bodies, and then ignite (i would wrap a thick layer of newspaper around the end of a long stick, tie, light this, and then with your monster "match" light it all up to keep your distance from the kerosine.

again, i'm sorry, but i would act fast to keep the spores from spreading to other hives.


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## bare (May 10, 2002)

I'll be following this thread to see what it turns out to be, because it doesn't look like the foulbrood I've seen.

My very first hive was a foulbrood hive, that I foolishly tried to heal. It looked nothing like what we are seeing here. 

That's a beautiful observation hive you have there, I hope it turns out to be nothing. That said, if it is in your bee yard, I'd isolate it from others immediately. I'm sure you know not to use any tools from the bad hive on your healthy ones.

I imagine that you have a state bee inspector, since even Idaho has them. They can inspect your hive as well as your others and recommend a course of action.


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## justgojumpit (May 5, 2003)

bare, since there are two types of foulbrood, maybe you had one and sparkie has another. hopefully i am wrong though, as, like you said, it is a beautiful observation hive, and it would be quite a shame to see it burn down, and it would also be a shame to have to kill a colony.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

Contact your local inspector and explain that you have a problem hive and you are not sure what it is (Describe to them). The alternative is to find an experienced beekeeper and ask them. Diagnosisis over the internet is not the way to go.

As usual, just my 2 cents.

Mike


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## Oregonsparkie (Sep 3, 2003)

Ive asked this question on beesource.com also - they believe that the larvae are dying because the bees are not taking care of them - one guy believes it too hot in the top frame and an obs hive should be no bigger than 3 frames high. I guess this makes sense because all frames in a standard hive are side by side and overheating isnt as much a problem.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Mike in Ohio said:


> Contact your local inspector and explain that you have a problem hive and you are not sure what it is (Describe to them). The alternative is to find an experienced beekeeper and ask them. Diagnosisis over the internet is not the way to go.
> 
> As usual, just my 2 cents.
> 
> Mike


I think that this is the best idea yet!


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## justgojumpit (May 5, 2003)

well this would be good news! maybe if this is the case you could solve the problem by adding another entrance tube at the top of the hive. this would improve ventilation and allow the bees to have more entry and exit space. i'm thinking along the lines of heat rising, with cooler air moving in the bottom tube and warmer air moving out the upper tube, combined with bees fanning at the entrances, this should help you out a good deal. i think getting an experienced beekeeper to help you out would be a very good idea though.

justgojumpit


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## Billy Bob131 (May 11, 2004)

It is very hard to tell over the internet what you have even though you have some good pics. My first thought was European Foul Brood (EFB), and Iâm still not 100% sure. If it is EFB or sac brood I really would have to get a closer look at itâ¦take a smell and what not. Asking a local beekeeper is my best answer for you.

If it is the heat then you should add more ventilation holes at the top of the hive. Iâve seen 4 frame observation hives that work quite well. I can see some ventilation holes on the side of the hive in the pic, but I canât tell if there is one at the top.

BB


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## Elizabeth (Jun 4, 2002)

Hey Sparkie-

How about a little more info? Like-
Are you really keeping this thing outside? If so, first guess is that your larvae are being cooked. I keep mine on a covered porch and have no problems with heat, but if yours is sitting in the sun you could have a big problem. With OH's in which the frames are stacked it is very difficult for the bees to regulate temperature extremes. 

There is no problem with your design- that's a great looking OH. You may need more ventilation, can't tell from the photo. But for sure get it out of the sun. We have a 5-frame hive similar to yours, but topped with a mini-super which holds 3 medium frames for storing honey. The bees outgrow the OH quickly if you don't keep swapping full frames of brood out. It is a little tricky at first until you get used to it, you have to take enough brood away to keep the bees from overpopulating, but still leave enough to keep the hive going. If I were me I would put some feed on the hive as well- if they don't need it they won't eat it, but they can't store much in that hive, especially with all the brood, and if the nectar flow stops they can run out of food pretty quickly.

Take a peek at the dead larvae and see if their tongues are sticking out. Does the brood have a foul odor, similar to a glue pot? Find some capped cells and look to see if the cappings are sunken- if so, you may have AFB. But without more info, I think it is the heat that's getting them.


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