# All black chickens



## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

Neat article on the all black chicken from indonesia. 200$ a chick. Wow. Went to the breeder site and there is also a swedish chicken like that. Too neat. They might have to stay on the wish list for a while.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2015)

You're referring to the Ayam Cemani and the Svart Hona

They aren't the only all black chickens in the world. They just happen to be trendy right now.


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## dfr1973 (Apr 19, 2012)

There are also black Silkies ... black feathers, black skin, black meat.


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

I love my australorps but, they are far from ALL black. MSN had the story on most expensive foods. I don't think of exotic chickens as food but at $200 and egg that is expensive. They also mentioned coffee beans that had been eaten and expelled and the worlds most expensive coffee. I can't imagine who would want to drink that. yuck.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2015)

okiemom said:


> MSN had the story on most expensive foods.


Is there an online link? I couldn't find it. I did find this, which includes a $22,000 cantaloupe. http://www.myworldgems.com/the-top-7-most-expensive-food-in-the-world/


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/spendingandborrowing/11-of-the-worlds-most-expensive-foods/ss-BBhE9Al


So that is what the extremely wealthy do with their money.


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## moonwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

There is a book written about the cultivation of a black tulip from Holland.... The first developed worth about a hundred thousand dollars, but digressing about 'trendiness'....
I raise black chickens....Black Australorps. To me they are certainly black enough to call 'black' feathered, but the have red combs and dewlaps, so.....I don't know. They are the finest egg Laing birds I have the pleasure raising.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I don't care much for the Ayam Cemani, they can keep them. You can get them much cheaper if you know the right people, anyway. But I would like some Ayam Ketawa I could see paying the big bucks for some of those.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

One of the sellers on ebay has stated :

However, we cannot guarantee the distribution of black pigment in their offspring. It is a possibility that the offspring may have white pigment. Not every offspring is going to be destined to be show quality.

Sounds like a lot of money $25.00 per eggs + 20.00 for shipping. Ebay has a few other sellers as well. 10 eggs for $75


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## Sumatra (Dec 5, 2013)

Never heard of the Svart Hona before, although the Ayam cemani has been making it's tours around the poultry world the past couple of years. Is there really a difference in their color or something?


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2015)

Sumatra said:


> Never heard of the Svart Hona before, although the Ayam cemani has been making it's tours around the poultry world the past couple of years. Is there really a difference in their color or something?


Ayam Cemanis and Svart Honas are what's called melanistic chickens. There are a number of breeds of chickens that are melanistic. The silkie is a common example.

Melanistic chickens have black meat and black bones.


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## Renorei (Nov 5, 2014)

I googled some pictures of their meat. How weird. I wonder how they taste. 

Imagine if there were fully melanistic humans!


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

but the eggs are cream colored. Not sure if I like the looks or not I mean everything on them is black, skin, inside of mouth, toung,comb wattles, and yet they have a green sheen to the feathers. I could not afford to buy one or eggs thats for sure. And if I paid $25.00 or more per egg it sure better hatch out black, can you imagine spending all that money and get black and white speckled chicks. I will have to wait for them to show up in the Murray Hatchery books.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The proper term for the black meat trait is fibro melanism. So these birds have the fibro melanism trait and the melanistic plumage trait. These traits have been present in the states for a long time in the silky. There are also chickens in some Asian communities that closely resemble the Ayam Cemani, might even be related. They have the same traits, but they don't really breed them true to the feather color, since they are just meat birds. They have been imported from the home country all along by refugees and travelers. Once again, a certain kitschy chicken hatchery is pretending to have something special, and cashing in on peoples lack of knowledge.


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## dfr1973 (Apr 19, 2012)

barnbilder said:


> Once again, a certain kitschy chicken hatchery is pretending to have something special, and cashing in on peoples lack of knowledge.


I have to admire the marketing finesse there - it brings to mind P.T. Barnum's famous "To the Egress" sign.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

So, this is how this thing is going to play out. People are paying crazy prices for Cemanis, they are going to breed them, the ones that live in a warm enough climate for them to survive in, anyway, and they are going to sell them. People will pay exorbitant prices so they will breed even more, and so on, until, people will realize that they have more than the market will bare. Then realizing that chicken feed is expensive, they will start unloading them at bargain prices. Then even more people will have them and breed them and try to cash in on a no-longer-existing market. They will then sell at meat prices. Hispanic immigrants don't tend to like black meat chickens, (we already have silkies). Some Asian people like them, but a lot of them are already raising those. So if you are a homesteading type, that sells eggs, raises enough for you, and sells excess roosters for meat to recent immigrants that still recognize the value of non-industrial meat, you will see impacts. In a few years, I foresee Hispanic immigrants not buying ANY black chicken, because they will not trust it not to have black meat. But by that time the emperor will have some new clothes, and some other common, but obscure, chicken breed will be all the rage.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2015)

barnbilder said:


> People will pay exorbitant prices so they will breed even more, and so on, until, people will realize that they have more than the market will bare. Then realizing that chicken feed is expensive, they will start unloading them at bargain prices. Then even more people will have them and breed them and try to cash in on a no-longer-existing market.


Exactly how the Emu and the Boer Goat markets played out. It was quite interesting to watch from the sidelines.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Also happened to the ostrich, buffalo, beefalo. llama, alpaca, yak, miniature cattle and pigs, seramas.
Lots of things people will pay high prices for if you can convince them they are special.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

The prices will come down, but for true quality birds the prices stay high. I know someone that can get $600 easily for her silkies and silkies have been around a long time and are far from uncommon as a breed.

It is true that Ayam Cemani do not always breed true black and some breeders are not being honest about this fact.


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2015)

Tiempo said:


> The prices will come down, but for true quality birds the prices stay high.


Truth!


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

http://countrywhatnotgardens.com/bantamlongtails/cemani/index.html


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## motherhenshow (Apr 7, 2015)

ladycat said:


> Exactly how the Emu and the Boer Goat markets played out. It was quite interesting to watch from the sidelines.


I saw an emu at a petting fair once. It looked very sad and kind of crazy around the eyes. It scared me a little bit.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Ayam-Cem...204?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item234f6cf994


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Tiempo said:


> The prices will come down, but for true quality birds the prices stay high. I know someone that can get $600 easily for her silkies and silkies have been around a long time and are far from uncommon as a breed.


That's it, I am marketing all of my Silkies as "rare" and selling all of them right now. I have solid black silkies, solid white silkies, solid red silkies...some that have crossed out with my black Cochin flat coat rooster, and some that have crossed out with my black Cochin Frizzle rooster. Man, I have great assorted "rare" colors on some of them...one even came out looking exactly like a black copper marans only with Silkie feathers on his legs. Think I can get a bunch of money for them?! 

JK. Those trends are so ridiculous, but people will fall for it time and again.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

aoconnor1 said:


> That's it, I am marketing all of my Silkies as "rare" and selling all of them right now. I have solid black silkies, solid white silkies, solid red silkies...some that have crossed out with my black Cochin flat coat rooster, and some that have crossed out with my black Cochin Frizzle rooster. Man, I have great assorted "rare" colors on some of them...one even came out looking exactly like a black copper marans only with Silkie feathers on his legs. Think I can get a bunch of money for them?!
> 
> JK. Those trends are so ridiculous, but people will fall for it time and again.


It's about quality to standard. Silkies are not rare but quality is, I have people right now ready to chew their own limbs off for this girl, I get several FB messages a week. NFS.

Gray silkie pullet


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

And this one

Gray silkie pullet


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

> ...the ones that live in a warm enough climate for them to survive in..


I have one Ayam Cemani, a male and fwiw he did just fine at -20 this past winter.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Tiempo said:


> It's about quality to standard. Silkies are not rare but quality is, I have people right now ready to chew their own limbs off for this girl, I get several FB messages a week. NFS.
> 
> Gray silkie pullet
> 
> View attachment 47005


I was only joking. I love my Silkies and have some truly lovely ones. It was meant tongue in cheek 

I would love someday to have some really fine birds. For now, I have my little flock and I work on keeping them healthy and happy.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Here is one of my birds I bred for...rooster is a black Cochin, the hen is a red Silkie. This boy could easily pass for a Black Copper Marans, but for his lovely feathers on his legs This is a slightly older pic, he has covered even more in red now. I will try to get a picture of him in the sunshine.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

"Easily pass for" and displaying the same color phenotype are different things.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

barnbilder said:


> "Easily pass for" and displaying the same color phenotype are different things.


I know. He is coloring out similarly to a Black Copper Marans, that was what my comment meant. He looks quite similar.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Pure-Ayam...570?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f4bce7a4a


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2015)

Forcast said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Pure-Ayam...570?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f4bce7a4a


Getting cheaper!


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I had hoped my two posts would be seen as rather humorous, not as serious. I have silkies and some of them are quite lovely, but not the quality and variety that bring any kind of money as some of those mentioned here by others would bring. I meant the post about selling my silkies as rare as a complete joke, there was no seriousness to that comment other than being a smart aleck. 

The post about my pretty cross rooster, that was just to show him off, not to make someone think I would ever try to pass anything I have here off as something it isn't. He is gorgeous, getting prettier everyday, and looking more like a Black Copper Marans every time I see him. But I know he isn't one and wouldn't try to fool anyone about it. It was just a comment and picture, not anything other than that.

I love to see the beautiful birds some of you have. There are ones I have never heard of, and some that have coloring I have never seen. I appreciate all of the information and knowledge here, I'm sorry if I offended anyone by kidding about my birds.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

me to I have a mutt rooster a cross of jersey black giant and buff orpington and he is huge and sweet. and very very pretty dark buff color.


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## fivehillsfarm (Nov 24, 2015)

I breed Cemani. Questions are welcome about this breed....there is a Lot of mis-information about them for sure. I'd love to clear some of that up.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

Where are you located.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Impressive breed pimping job by dragging up all of the Cemani threads. I didn't know people were still working with those now that GFF has all the new offerings. They even have Minorcas now, for $99 a chick! I'm holding out for the Ga Dong Tao that can actually offer something unique as I happen to like pickled chicken feet.


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## fivehillsfarm (Nov 24, 2015)

KSALguy said:


> Where are you located.


I'm in SW Missouri


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

I thought so. I have followed your posts on the Fibro page. Really like your current project and wish you were closer.


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## fivehillsfarm (Nov 24, 2015)

barnbilder said:


> Impressive breed pimping job by dragging up all of the Cemani threads. I didn't know people were still working with those now that GFF has all the new offerings. They even have Minorcas now, for $99 a chick! I'm holding out for the Ga Dong Tao that can actually offer something unique as I happen to like pickled chicken feet.



:gromit: Not here to sell, I'm working on breeding them to have some ready to show next year. The club I'm in is preparing to bring them to the APA for admitance to the shows. I just see a lot of messed up information floating around about them. Trying to clear it up. I see everything, from the obvious false black eggs...and so on. There are some valid reasons to raise them, one selling point later on (especially with the projects that are taking off) would be the meat. It's like anything else, a novelty now but definitely edible and good and healthy. I would think that would be a good point in a Homesteading group. Ga Dong are Extremely hard to raise and sort of like Cornish crosses, somewhat of a sad deal for them to be bred that way. I also have Pheasants, Jungle Fowl, Tomaru and Araucana's (not easter eggers). Nothing here is unusable...


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I'm toying with the idea of getting some Tomaru, mainly just for the neighbors enjoyment. I mean no ill will to anyone wanting to preserve rare breeds, just a little sarcastic jabbing at those who have jumped on the GFF $500 per chick wave of ridiculousness. With the breeds that are going extinct that have been here for hundreds of years I really can't see handing them fistfuls of money for all of the good they are doing by jumping through hurdles to bring us yet more rare breeds, that might in fact not be all that rare or really pure breeds. As for the demand for black meat, silkies have black meat, and best I can tell there aren't any shortages of free silkie roosters on craigslist. The people that like the black meat get it from the birds that they smuggled in when they moved here, the hmong breeds that have been here probably since the early eighties, which are just landrace meat chickens and don't always breed true for the black meat trait.

Some questions I have, what is the proper color for eggs? I have heard that some of the earlier 1990s imports had brown eggs, some of the more recent imports have white eggs and some of them have lightly tinted eggs. Which is the real Cemani color? I have heard that the real cemanis need a warm moist environment, and that the ones that can tolerate cold are not Cemanis at all, but Svart Honas. It would seem that there are some breeders who are interchanging Svart Hona with Cemani, in which case, though the birds might be pure black, at that point they wouldn't be Cemanis or Svart Honas, they would be crossbred chickens. Can pure Indonesian Cemanis tolerate cold? Some of the Indonesian breeders claim that the birds should be pure black, black comb, black mouth and no black feathers or toes. It seems that an awful lot of breeders are turning out birds with yellow toes, mulberry combs and red or white bleeding on the hackles and they swear their birds came from reliable sources. If they are pure to start with, they should be homozygous for traits, if they are just landrace chickens that carry the FM gene, then they aren't really unique enough to command the price that some folks are charging. Are off colored birds being culled or are they being sold as "not breeding quality" to meet the insatiable demand?


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

KFC fill up = $5:walk:


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

Kool. black chickens. I want some. Lebanon here where are you in SW Missouri?


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## fivehillsfarm (Nov 24, 2015)

I'm in Buffalo, but I just messaged the adminitrator to close my account here. I hadn't been here for more than a couple of days before mean, rude people were responding to my post and photo's of my Cemani.

It says here, Homesteading Today Neighborly help and Friendly advice, That's sure not what I found here


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## fivehillsfarm (Nov 24, 2015)

barnbilder said:


> I'm toying with the idea of getting some Tomaru, mainly just for the neighbors enjoyment. I mean no ill will to anyone wanting to preserve rare breeds, just a little sarcastic jabbing at those who have jumped on the GFF $500 per chick wave of ridiculousness. With the breeds that are going extinct that have been here for hundreds of years I really can't see handing them fistfuls of money for all of the good they are doing by jumping through hurdles to bring us yet more rare breeds, that might in fact not be all that rare or really pure breeds. As for the demand for black meat, silkies have black meat, and best I can tell there aren't any shortages of free silkie roosters on craigslist. The people that like the black meat get it from the birds that they smuggled in when they moved here, the hmong breeds that have been here probably since the early eighties, which are just landrace meat chickens and don't always breed true for the black meat trait.
> 
> Some questions I have, what is the proper color for eggs? I have heard that some of the earlier 1990s imports had brown eggs, some of the more recent imports have white eggs and some of them have lightly tinted eggs. Which is the real Cemani color? I have heard that the real cemanis need a warm moist environment, and that the ones that can tolerate cold are not Cemanis at all, but Svart Honas. It would seem that there are some breeders who are interchanging Svart Hona with Cemani, in which case, though the birds might be pure black, at that point they wouldn't be Cemanis or Svart Honas, they would be crossbred chickens. Can pure Indonesian Cemanis tolerate cold? Some of the Indonesian breeders claim that the birds should be pure black, black comb, black mouth and no black feathers or toes. It seems that an awful lot of breeders are turning out birds with yellow toes, mulberry combs and red or white bleeding on the hackles and they swear their birds came from reliable sources. If they are pure to start with, they should be homozygous for traits, if they are just landrace chickens that carry the FM gene, then they aren't really unique enough to command the price that some folks are charging. Are off colored birds being culled or are they being sold as "not breeding quality" to meet the insatiable demand?



Cemani were here for many years before GFF imported theirs. My friend in Georgia imported them some 30 yrs ago but in Indonesia, the birds are a landrace, not a breed so they breed for the fibro, not a particular type bird and if you read up on the history of the breed....there are all sorts of combs and even feather color in the same batches of chicks in Indonesia. The name "Ayam Cemani" just means black chicken. They are a black cones breed and some of the chicks come out with all the needed fibro genes to blacken them up fully. They are used for ceremony there, they are eaten in Asian countries for the health benefits but here in the US, they are still bred as an oddity.

The birds imported to the US all came through Europe. The disease and poor sanitation in Indonesia have made them one of the banned countries to import from for many years. So, the Cemani that were imported into Europe before the bans were so poor and unhealthy that they did outcross to save them from extinction there. I have not found all the history but that much I know. Even in Indonesia though, you'll see all colors of feathering with a handful of good, all black chicks. They aren't culls though and they carry the genetics to create more Cemani. Each type has a name that is descriptive and can be used to breed for more Cemani which are the goal. 

Feather color leakage "could" be a sign the were outcrossed but there are NO pure Cemani from Indonesia in the US. We are trying to develop a standard and breed towards that and I'm in a breeder club working on APA acceptance in the near future. Feather color leakage is not always a sign of someone breeding them out, it is a normal variance and if those individuals are perfect other than feather color, they are definitely good to breed. 

It's the individuals who are out to make a buck that is ruining the breed for some. The rest of us who have been breeding them as they should be, will never make any money because you have to raise so many to get the really good chicks. But, as with everything else on a farm, nothing goes to waste and they are good eating... 

GFF spent thousands of dollars to get them here and idiots attack them for asking big prices for their chicks. I'm betting a farmer taking a calf to market would be really irritated if someone approached them and told that farmer what their calf was worth and that they were asking too much because all they have to do is let them eat grass and grass is free right? LOL. People are so foolish sometimes. They will want the all black Cemani but they have No idea how much money is put into making that one perfect chick. That is the number one reason why the breed is so expensive still....even though they have been in the US for some 40 yrs. Even in Indonesia, the perfect ones bring Far more than what they are sold for here for that very reason. Culls are eaten. Breeders often won't sell the culls (the ones they could have sold for cheap prices since they are imperfect) because of the concern that some nitwit will start raising culls and selling them for high prices when they are not worth it and it affects the true breeders.....so the only ones selling are high dollar and generally sales between breeders. :hair

I just found it very sad that in a group such as this, that there would be such negativity and mean spirited people....farmers for goodness sakes! I would never treat people that way of knock down their projects. And yes...Tomaru are delicious too and a nice large breed. Mine are particularly nice, from an Asian breeder who had not sold anything from his flock for 30 yrs and he offered a pair to me to buy. Far superior to the ones being bred in the US now. I'm also working on the Laughing crow and that requires a longcrower breed. It will take me years to accomplish but there is no waste here and they are excellent layers. The Cemani are not such good layers. My Tomaru cock can crow for 15 seconds!


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

I really enjoy your and others projects. And until I am able to get my first Fibro fowl I will live vicariously through the posts on the Fibro page on fb.


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## fivehillsfarm (Nov 24, 2015)

KSALguy said:


> I really enjoy your and others projects. And until I am able to get my first Fibro fowl I will live vicariously through the posts on the Fibro page on fb.


Check with me in the spring....I'll have fibro chicks that are Cemani crosses for very cheap prices. Breed them to each other and it will double up the chances for blacker meat. They will likely be Araucana crosses with tails....I'm working on a fibro araucana so I'm keeping the rumpless chicks.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Now that you have been vetted to determine if you were one of the people that bought Cemani eggs from ebay and is now trying to sell them for big bucks, welcome. Glad that someone with some history in the breed can shed some light on these birds. 

Not so much here, but in other places it seems that there are a lot of people that have had chickens for all of 6 months and they are cranking out "premium bloodlines", not always the best thing that can happen with a rare breed, now that rare breed poultry is the vogue cottage industry of the suburban farmstead. I appreciate what it takes to get birds to the point you have obviously gotten yours to, and understand that in many cases the high prices would be a break even deal, but a lot of folks are caught up in the high dollar madness.

Another question, because I would really like to know, is the pure black, (meaning tongue, meat, bones, comb) trait a dominant or an incomplete dominant? It's obviously not recessive or it would be much easier to weed out the color leakage. Or maybe one of those weird sex linked genes?


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

An Araucana cross with a tail would actually be an ideal start for me lol. Araucana were some of my first chickens as a child. They were actually Easter Eggers by todays standards but they were a very old (inbred) line my Grandmother had from before Ameracauna was a "thing". We would occasionally have a tuffted or rumples hatch out but most were clean face with tails.


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## fivehillsfarm (Nov 24, 2015)

barnbilder said:


> Now that you have been vetted to determine if you were one of the people that bought Cemani eggs from ebay and is now trying to sell them for big bucks, welcome. Glad that someone with some history in the breed can shed some light on these birds.
> 
> Not so much here, but in other places it seems that there are a lot of people that have had chickens for all of 6 months and they are cranking out "premium bloodlines", not always the best thing that can happen with a rare breed, now that rare breed poultry is the vogue cottage industry of the suburban farmstead. I appreciate what it takes to get birds to the point you have obviously gotten yours to, and understand that in many cases the high prices would be a break even deal, but a lot of folks are caught up in the high dollar madness.
> 
> Another question, because I would really like to know, is the pure black, (meaning tongue, meat, bones, comb) trait a dominant or an incomplete dominant? It's obviously not recessive or it would be much easier to weed out the color leakage. Or maybe one of those weird sex linked genes?


It's dominant but the kicker is that there are more than one gene required to complete blackness. Some breeds and some color bases and white skin seems to be better for crossbreeding to get better fibro crosses. Some crosses are pretty black with the first cross, even though they can only carry one set of the fibro genes from the one parent. Some just don't show it even though it's "there". I have one rooster that is pretty poor quality for a Cemani. But I love to learn from breeding them so I bred him to an Araucana hen that was in no way, fibro. Very red wattles/comb/face...nothing about her was black, silver duckwing color. The roo had greyish skin, not black. A lot of mulberry in the comb/wattles. I got one chick from that cross that was blacker than the Cemani parent. I believe there is more to the Fibro genes than most care to know. I think there must be genes that enhance the fibro as well as genes that inhibit the expression. 

I'm not into them to make a lot of money. I sell "culls" to people wanting to get into the breed but don't want to spend a fortune. I have a Lot of money invested but if I sell anything for a good amount, they will be very good quality and I have no shame in doing that, it's a Lot of work and money to get there. If someone wants to buy culls and breed them right, they could develop a pretty good hen flock and buy a worthy rooster and they would be getting chicks as good as anyone elses.....but it takes patience and some knowledge of genetics or at the least, someone to help guide them in choosing matings between the culls. 

I started my LF black Araucana flock with culls, all manner of messed up colors and traits and turned them into a show winning flock. Homesteading, to me, is about working with farm stock to develop markets for them for sustainability. I have been there and done that and just because my choices in farm stock is a little on the weird side...that's just me, lol. No different than those raising tomato's that are all kinds of weird colors. They are heritage types and grow true from seed.....no one bad mouths those. But take an all black chicken, and people are all over it....lol. They are so much "older" and more natural a breed than most of the heritage breeds in the US, there isn't much comparison. I also have Jungle Fowl, I have 3 of the Richardson strain Red JF....you cannot get older than that! They are not even classified as a chicken...but they are the foundation of all breeds today and I love the history of the breeds...all breeds.


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## fivehillsfarm (Nov 24, 2015)

This is one of my Cemani/Araucana cross chicks. This chick is probably the best overall this year. I didn't hatch very many though. The darker the meat, the better to the Asians who prefer them and that is what marketing is about. I don't believe they care what the breed is, it's about the meat quality and the Araucana is a dual purpose breed, good egg layer with a pea comb (blue eggs) and with the pea comb, they are very cold tolerant and good layers in the winter. They have a fair to good amount of meat and I breed for that too. Adding a line of black meated meaty type chickens will provide us with some very healthy eating as well as a good market once I have them perfected. I don't care if they are tufted or not but I do prefer rumpless and the eggs will be blue to blue greenish which also sell well at the market. 

Did you know that the blue egg gene is connected to the pea comb? And, that the blue egg gene was caused by a mutation because of a virus? I'm an RN and the science and genetics of poultry breeds has always fascinated me.


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## fivehillsfarm (Nov 24, 2015)

KSALguy said:


> An Araucana cross with a tail would actually be an ideal start for me lol. Araucana were some of my first chickens as a child. They were actually Easter Eggers by todays standards but they were a very old (inbred) line my Grandmother had from before Ameracauna was a "thing". We would occasionally have a tuffted or rumples hatch out but most were clean face with tails.



Araucana's and Easter Eggers were never the same. Most hatcheries erroneously sold their easter eggers under the name Araucana and sometimes Ameraucana ( or mispelled Americana) or sometimes...they advertised them using all the names.... but if you called them on it (and I have) they will tell you they know the difference so to me, that was simply false advertising. You can't buy Araucana's at hatcheries.


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## fivehillsfarm (Nov 24, 2015)

KSALguy said:


> An Araucana cross with a tail would actually be an ideal start for me lol. Araucana were some of my first chickens as a child. They were actually Easter Eggers by todays standards but they were a very old (inbred) line my Grandmother had from before Ameracauna was a "thing". We would occasionally have a tuffted or rumples hatch out but most were clean face with tails.



Araucana's and Easter Eggers were never the same. Most hatcheries erroneously sold their easter eggers under the name Araucana and sometimes Ameraucana ( or mispelled Americana) or sometimes...they advertised them using all the names.... but if you called them on it (and I have) they will tell you they know the difference so to me, that was simply false advertising. You can't buy Araucana's at hatcheries.

Here are some of my Araucana's.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I have read somewhere that the cemani in their native lands is not so much a breed as it is a reference to a color, and that some of the array of colors comes from the practice of crossing domestic fowl with green jungle fowl. Maybe their is some truth to that, if it were so, the instability of the hybrids would carry on for generations and make breeding for a particular color challenging. Have you ever considered crossing a Cemani with the red jungle fowl, just to see what would happen? (I know keeping brood pens for every possible experiment can be difficult, hard enough to keep your pure lines going.)


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

Yes you are right about the Hatchery stock. Hers were not. Truth be told who knows where she got them. I have never seen a line like them again. I wish I still had some. She was 99 when she died and this was 30 years ago when I came up knowing her birds. Mostly some variant of a duckwing pattern. Occasionally a white hen with tufts. Blue black and silver base colors for most. Very compact and cobby shape almost an old classic painting style shape to the hens with tales. Bowling ball shape to the few rumpless birds.


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## Cat Hill (Nov 8, 2012)

I started my Araucana flock with culls. There were so few breeders when I started that I took anything I could get my hands on and most breeders killed their culls (idiots) so it was even harder to get started. That was nearly 9 years ago and I bred with the hope for improvement every breeding season and developed my own line of blacks. It was hard to finally sell off the remainder of my non-black Araucana's but it was essential. I have shown my blacks and won 1st's locally but there were not that many in the show. 

As far as Cemani, I have some projects going and also breed Tomaru (longtailed longcrowers). They are related a ways back. I have pure, Richardson strain Red Jungle fowl. I won't be crossing them out to anything until I have a safe number of pure breeders and then I may outcross a cockerel or two. I already have Grey JF hybrids and a Grey JF/EE-Ceylon/OEG cross hybrid cockerel and the grey JF hens are laying and I have developing eggs in the incubator. 

The Red JF will be added to the hybrid pen through the extra Red cockerels later. I also have a Sumatra/Grey JF hybrid roo that has a hen that is Tomaru/Araucana. I have 3 eggs from that pen so far. 

Eventually, I hope to develop Laughing crow roosters. I have a plan, and help from a breeder in Indonesia but this could take many years since it's not an exact science even in Indonesia.


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