# help me pick!



## OHmama (Jun 3, 2013)

I have no idea where to start!

We have lost 1 dog and 1 cat in the last year.Coyotes we believe,we know they are around. I think they were nearby last night as our dog(pup to 1 we lost)was going nuts and hiding under the porch. Lost a chicken recently(**** I think).

We have 2 outside dogs but neither are very big or brave.That's how we losy last dog,she was a protector but didn't have the size.

We are talking about adding meat birds and a couple goats and I'm tired of losing animals!!And those would be our livelihood!

Is there a dog we can get that would be good with kids and possibly kept inside during the day?Or should they always be outside?


----------



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

As I posted on another thread, I'm quite biased in favor of the Bulgarian Karakachan. (You can read about this breed on my thread in this forum.) I purchased one of these recently and, though only 5 months old now, she has already bonded with goats, does not chase any of our fowl (guineas, chickens, geese), does not bark excessively (1-2 woofs, then checks it out), is very courageous and smart. She will get some size on her too so that she will have little difficulty intimidating the foxes, wolves, *****, badgers & possoms I've seen around here.

If I were you I would make sure I didn't just get one LGD though. I'ld get two. If you get two of different genders, it is good to have them spayed unless you're going to start breeding them. Getting two of the same gender can bring up fights between the two in order to decide who is at the top of that little pack order. (Make sure you are.) However, having 2 LGDs can give each some help should they need it against any predator that might show up in a pack.

The Karakachan is loyal to its owners (and their children), will tolerate visitors the owner lets onto the place...as long as they don't do something that dog believes is threatening to its charges (humans and animals it is protecting). Like most if not all LGDs, the Karakachan "thinks for herself".

If you're wanting a dog to protect your livestock, you would need the dog to be an "outside' dog who is willing to stay with and/or near your livestock wherever they roam. If you're wanting a dog to protect your "human" kids, you might want to choose a dog who prefers to be around peope more than around livestock. There are LGDs like that. (My place is small, only 6 acres; so I keep my Karakachan outdoors all the time; however, she can watch over every animal I own from my front or back yard. This means she can guard the house we live in too. I also have a lab she plays tag with and it is this lab that does the barking to let me know if anything or anyone is around our place. The Karakachan woofs once or twice then watches...not sure yet what she will do should anything be threatened here. I do know this breed is known for its selfless willingness to give its life to protect its charges.)

May I make a suggestion without offending you? If I understand you correctly, you now have two dogs, one who is just a puppy and is hiding from something frightening it. That pup may make you a good "human" guard if you can teach it that your place is safe enough for it to explore and grow up in. All babies need to feel safe to grow well.


----------



## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Wolves in Virginia?

OHmama- good fencing helps a lot with predators. As far as a LGD, try to find one from working stock, not a puppy mill Pyrenees or show dog. Penning your dogs at night will go a lot further to keeping the coyotes from getting them than anything else. I would also question if it was coyotes killing your dog if it was any bigger than a beagle or so.


----------



## OHmama (Jun 3, 2013)

the dog was smaller than a beagle..she was a mixed dog and looked like a dachshund with long legs!We had heard coyotes in the field across from us earlier in the week and our dog had a litter of puppies..she was protective anyway but more so with the pups.


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

A Great Pyr works by barking. The barking interrupts the stalking sequence of the wolf or coyote. The wolf or coyote can't just go back to what he was doing. He goes away and comes back in a few days. However, they are clever and if hunting in a pack may learn to split up. One group distracts the dog(s) while the other goes in for the kill. If you need more than one LGD depends on what you are up against. What kind of dog depends on what you are up against. If you own a large tract of land, you can have roamers. Otherwise, you need a dog that stays with the livestock and stays put.

You may be better off with a dog that protects his territory and has enough size to be intimidating. Wolves and coyotes don't fight for the fun of it, an injury can cost them their life.


----------



## OHmama (Jun 3, 2013)

We don't have a lot of land,so I need a dog that doesn't need acres and acres.We only have like 1 acre.I just need something to deter predators.


----------



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Bret, did I actually say "wolves"? I must have meant the 2-legged breed!


----------



## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

OHmama said:


> We don't have a lot of land,so I need a dog that doesn't need acres and acres.We only have like 1 acre.I just need something to deter predators.



I think what you need isn't so much a LGD as a good sized dog with a territorial instinct that you can trust around the livestock- and some good fences. You can fence an acre for less than a good LGD will cost you. Beyond that anything from a Lab to a Collie to a German Shepherd might work. Breeds like hounds and sled dogs might be poor choices. A mutt with a good dose of LGD breed might work out. True LGD breeds tend to be pretty expensive these days and most require a pretty good sized area to satisfy their instinct to protect a given area. BUT- I run 2 Pyrs inside a 164 foot square area bounded by electronet. The net gets moved every other day, or sooner, and I think that helps keep them sane, plus they have close to 150 animals to look after. That's a little over a half acre. In winter they have a 3 acre + enclosure to run in with 100 or so sheep. So there are options as long as the dog gets enough exercise. But you'll still need a good fence to keep the dog in. I know I keep coming back to the fence, but that's the first thing to fix.


----------



## Blue Ridge (Jul 2, 2013)

Bret4207 said:


> I think what you need isn't so much a LGD as a good sized dog with a territorial instinct that you can trust around the livestock- and some good fences. You can fence an acre for less than a good LGD will cost you. Beyond that anything from a Lab to a Collie to a German Shepherd might work. Breeds like hounds and sled dogs might be poor choices. A mutt with a good dose of LGD breed might work out. True LGD breeds tend to be pretty expensive these days and most require a pretty good sized area to satisfy their instinct to protect a given area. BUT- I run 2 Pyrs inside a 164 foot square area bounded by electronet. The net gets moved every other day, or sooner, and I think that helps keep them sane, plus they have close to 150 animals to look after. That's a little over a half acre. In winter they have a 3 acre + enclosure to run in with 100 or so sheep. So there are options as long as the dog gets enough exercise. But you'll still need a good fence to keep the dog in. I know I keep coming back to the fence, but that's the first thing to fix.


This is some of the best practical application to help us sort out our situation, as well. Thanks!

BTW: Wolves in Virginia? Yes! Thanks to our government officials reintroducing breeding pairs.

http://www.vlrc.org/articles/42.html


----------



## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

No wolves were ever released into VA. They article is 11 years old and it never happened. It was written to get people riled up and full of B.S.


----------



## Blue Ridge (Jul 2, 2013)

JasoninMN said:


> No wolves were ever released into VA. They article is 11 years old and it never happened. It was written to get people riled up and full of B.S.


Ah. Ok. My bust.


----------



## OHmama (Jun 3, 2013)

Bret4207 said:


> I think what you need isn't so much a LGD as a good sized dog with a territorial instinct that you can trust around the livestock- and some good fences. You can fence an acre for less than a good LGD will cost you. Beyond that anything from a Lab to a Collie to a German Shepherd might work. Breeds like hounds and sled dogs might be poor choices. A mutt with a good dose of LGD breed might work out. True LGD breeds tend to be pretty expensive these days and most require a pretty good sized area to satisfy their instinct to protect a given area. BUT- I run 2 Pyrs inside a 164 foot square area bounded by electronet. The net gets moved every other day, or sooner, and I think that helps keep them sane, plus they have close to 150 animals to look after. That's a little over a half acre. In winter they have a 3 acre + enclosure to run in with 100 or so sheep. So there are options as long as the dog gets enough exercise. But you'll still need a good fence to keep the dog in. I know I keep coming back to the fence, but that's the first thing to fix.


thanks for the advice!

About the fence,not sure all of our land is fenceable...


----------



## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

My land has lots of rock, ledge, open water and swamp. Anything can be fenced, you just need to get some ideas from folks who have done it for a while. Give us some examples of you problem areas and we can probably come up with something.


----------



## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Wholeheartedly agree with the fencing recommendation; even a good LGD or farm dog needs good fencing. Good fencing may solve much of the problem you are having and may have, though most times good fencing and a good farm dog work best together. If your fence isn't good, your dog will get out. Great Pyr love the car chase. Good utility dogs like Catahoulas love the woods chase. Goats and coyotes squeeze through barbed wire. Possums and Raccoons don't even notice a chainlink fence. Before adding to your stock, study and invest into the best fencing for your situation. Its the best foundation for every critter you put into your homeplace. And then bring home a good dog. Every dog deserves a good home. Best wishes.


----------



## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Did you ever pick out a new dog? I always like to know what the resolution was, btw, just curious....
(And I do think even a large breed that you can get from Rescue like a German shepherd dog would work fine in your situation... I am not sure where you are located but in my area GSDs are easy to come by in rescue --- we have THREE rescues in our area alone to place them)....


----------



## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

Get an American Bulldog (I'm way bias, as that is my breed)

Why would you want the dog in the house when the predators are outside, the job is where the dog needs to be at.


----------

