# bio diesel questions from crop to fuel



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

So is anyone here actually growing their own diesel pressing the crop (whatever type) and making biodiesel? What sort of pressing equipment is needed? Anyone look into it and want to share some resources?


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## J2E1 (Oct 15, 2009)

Ross, there are a few people doing so in the Michigan area. A lot of biodiesel and vegetable oil discussion can be found there, but here's the specific thread I've read.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/419605551/m/295104721/p/1


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I run a truck, tractor, and MB car with blended veggie oil.
The used oil goes thru a centrifuge to filter down to 2 or 3 microns.
It is then blended with regular off road diesel and a very small amount of RUG and some ctane boster.
I have done NO modifications whatsoever to any of those engines.
The inference there is about those that use a two tank system.

If I had the means to grow and press my own rape seed (wish I did) . . I would not even bother to make "Bio".
I shy away from wanting to handle dangerous methanol and lye.

Costs: Go and price a barrel of methanol . . . . . . .
So the per gal price comes out about the same for our 'blend'
verses 'bio'


you asked and got my $0.03


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

We used to make large batches of soap so handling 50 pound bags of lye doesn't really bother me... but you're method is simpler yet. I was talkign to a neighbor who knows of a local experiment using biodiesle that was having problems with cold weather and even starting! This was on soy oil biodiesel. I've think canola would be better. They grow it out west so unless we're too wet here for it I don't see why I can't.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I just mentioned rape seed because of all the positive things I have heard/read about it.
I guess its a matter of what would be the "best" for your area . . .soy beans . . ?
On another forum (I believe) there was a really good link to a good sized farm operation that dedicated many acres to soy (?) and then a large press operation. Then highly filtered . . . and into the Big storage tank.
This farm had\has many many diesel units . . . . so the whole operation is darn impressive..............

YES IT CAN BE DONE


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

There sure are a lot of small oil presses out there! Some good looking ones out of Germany, KEK etc one from France, Sweden, China, India, USA.... its a little mind boggling. Most seem to be aimed and food production. 

I'm curious what kind of centerfuge you use Jim, and I've read about washing the oil (both for food and biodiesel) do you wash your oils?


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## Jerry in MN (Dec 2, 2007)

Jim-mi said:


> ...It is then blended with regular off road diesel and a very small amount of RUG and some ctane boster...


What kind of diesel, #1 or #2 or a blend? What's RUG?


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## J2E1 (Oct 15, 2009)

RUG = Regular Unleaded Gasoline.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

The centerfuge is 5 miles away from me . . no I don't know who the maker is ......
The diesel is right out of the pump 'off road' . . .1 or 2 don't know.
Yes Regular Unleaded Gas.

The only 'washing' i've heard of is one of the processes involved with is in the making of bio diesel.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

We started out with .. . . .http:// www diesel secret.com
But ...
Oh my . . . . .I've let our "secret" out.


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

I run a mix of 50% #2 diesel/45% oil/5%RUG in my Dodge and have had very good luck with it. My mpg increase to 24 when I'm running it. I filter with two poly barrels hooked together. I pour the oil in a funnel made out of a propane tank that drains to the bottom of the first barrel and then hook the second barrel to the first with 3/4 inch pipe. The oil out of the first barrel comes off the top and drains into the second. I then use a hand pump with 5 micron filter to pump into my truck.

There's a farmer in MN that crushes his own sunflower and powers all his tractors with a mix of oil and RUG. He's been doing it for a number of years and now does it for area farmers also.

Bob


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Off road diesel should be #2 #1 is primarily used in cold climates and is a lower viscosity fuel. Canada has a #0 too for arctic use. 

From my limited reading washing is to remove glycerin in both biodiesel and veg oil. Basically you add water blend it with a mixer, air bubbles, or as a mist across the surface, Let the water settle out and rewash three times until you;re settling out clear. There are chemical methods too or as well, plus cloth filtres and of course the centerfuge. Which I like best in concept.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I'm guessing you've seen this company Jim? 

http://www.oilpress.com/drive_your_diesel.htm


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

No I haven't seen that one Ross.
But then I haven't been looking for presses.
That is quite a site . . .I'll go back to it when I've got more time.

A second tank with SVO could make some sense for you if you have a big ol JD (or other) unit thats going to be out working the fields for umteen hours . .nonstop........where your able to keep the 'oil' hot enough (viscosity thing)

For me a second tank doesn't make much sense. For instance: my grocery store of choice is 17 miles away. During cold times (lots of that here abouts) it would take most of that 17 miles to get the second tank up to proper temps. So most of that 17 miles would be spent running on straight diesel. . . . no savings plus the BIG cost of the "second tank system".
A friend has a VW Jetta with the second tank system . . that system cost him $1500. 

Our 'blend' is about 85% WVO . . . . . . . . AND . .theres NO modifications needed.

And yes everything runs better with "veggie oil" . . .todays Low sulphur diesel 'fuel' is not as kind on engines as when there was more sulphur (lubricating factor).

remember ole Rudulph D started this whole diesel thing running on ----peanut oil----


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

You can check his parts sources to some extent and so far I'm yet to find a Chinese component in the lot. Italian gears, German electric controls, and I forget where the motor came from but unless I missed something it was European. Remarkable prices too!


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Here is what I thought of doing for my own use, you will see that the initial startup is expensive and that is why I am not doing it.

Land about 10 acres tillable who knows 
Tractor around 75 hp 28000.00
Plow 12 x 2 bottom with coulters, used JD 1500.00
72 inch wide HD Tiller that will till to a dept of 10&#8221; 6000.00
Soy bean planter Used corn planter with soy bean wheels 4000.00
Used cultivator 1200.00
Used small combine with soy bean head. 8000.00
Trailer to haul beans 4000.00
Grinder 4000.00
Tanks for oil 1200.00
Trailers to haul crushed beans away. (important note grindings can be used for livestock feed especially cows.)	

10 acres of beans will yield about 3000 gallons of oil this depends on how the crops do.
As you can see it is quite expensive

The oil can be used in the vehicles and for heating. 

This is only a estimate and there is a lot of ancillary equipment needed too.

This is why I am not doing this.

Best regards,

Dave


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I already have all that except for the bean combine. I have an old IH 80 (2 actually) combine but I don't think I'd like t run beans through it! I could and would simply hire combining out. There's enough huge combines around they could swipe off ten acres in an hour or so.
We have a JD6415 Ford 6710,6600, all 75+ hp $9000-26,000
Kverneland plow 3x16 auto reset, $1200
72 inch Dougles tiller $1500
Belarus seed drill 21 run DD openers $3000
IH vibrshank cultivater $800
Combine $500-800 (works well, and would strip off canola well)
Gravity box and running gear, $1200
grinder (for oil production?) I have an old MF we paid $200 for it works fine but is small
Seems the press makes a nice pelleted feed and I have sheep and cattle that could eat it or I could sell it to the neighbors dairy farm.

Grain tanks I have already same with augers and elevators. I also have access to a seed cleaner and drier I could rent time on. 

The farm machinery I have already, the press seems to run $2000-wow! $5000 would get you a decent European built unit that puts out 9-13 litres per hour. I'm still looking for a small centerfuge to filtre the oil. A cloth element filtre to 5 microns seem to come in just under $3k 

I would need new tanks to let sediment settle out, fuel tanks run $500/ 1000 litres


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I kinda thought you had a reasonable sized operation going there.
Do you have the acres that you could set aside just for the oil operation . . ??


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

The only reason I looked at soy beans is the output of the press has a very high value as livestock feed and can be sold for around $2.50 to $3.00 per ton. P.S the cows love it.

Run the oil through a hydraulic pump and filter it should be good to go. Any old pump will do a canister filter will do about 200 gallons they cost about $8.00

Dave


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

2.50/ton!?!!? For a high protein soy suppliment???? That's gotta be a typo. 

Yes I have acres I could set aside, 20 would be easy....... more would kinda depend on a few things which I'm looking at. I do have rental land which is hay only, a few that are non-monsanto only (don't ask) my own and some I could pick back up as I'm the only person who likes the landlord well enough to talk to her.  

We're looking at a re-jig of the farm less sheep more dexter cows (if they continue as they have) more veggies, rabbit, and chicken. +?


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Ross
Not sure if $2.50 per ton is good or not but it is the left over from running the beans through an oil extractor, it is what I had heard a few years ago. I wouldn&#8217;t call it supplement it is supposed to be one of the best feeds going. 

Never got to try it.

Dave


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Sorry but a regular 8 dollar filter is a bad idea.
When it loads up and gets 'full' . .it goes into the 'bypass' mode and its blowing every thing right around the 'filter' . . . . and you will have no idea when its full.
And when filtering 'used' veggie oil you can't say any given amount before any 'filter' change . . . . .we find that oil that was used in a broaster is really loaded with the fine particles that will screw up a injection pump in a hurry.
And so if your pressing oil, you still have got to use a really good filtering system to get any remaining particle size down to 2-3 microns.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Raw bean is too high in protein to be anything but a suppliment, extracting the oil will only raise that protein level making it too hot as a ration. Now as a suppliment it would be very good and I've read it eliminates the need for roasting. Soy has a tripsim inhibitor, which I guess is eleiminated by the heat of the pressing. You can feed raw soy but limited to 5% of the ration. I'd be loathe to let it go for less than I paid for the raw bean and likely more! I'd be ahead to use it as a fertilizer for 2-3 bucks a ton!

I hope there's an affordable centerfuge out there I really think it would work best. Belarus tractors have an engine oil filter that uses the same principle and they work great!


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Just went through some bookmarks and found;

www.dieselcraft.com

clicking around I saw a CF like ours.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Ross soymeal FOB at Hamilton is running about $450/tonne now. You won't get that for what's coming out of a home press with the greater potential for consistency issues but I'd think $350-400 should be doable. Raw beans were $384 at Trenton and North Gower yesterday. That's on a similar dry matter basis, not sure how it would compare moisture wise.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Ross, Facebooked you a suggestion, he's a neighbour of mine who's running a big biodigester. You'll have seen all the articles in the farm papers lately. He's been working on soydiesel for about 2 years to go along with the generators they're running, not sure if they're in operation with the press and soydiesel plant yet or not. If you mention soydiesel and biodigesters he'll probably add you.

He was talking about doing runs on other peoples beans to keep the equipment running once he gets it set up, if he doesn't end up doing it for a reasonable price I might have to do my own. Ended up selling almost 300 tonnes this year.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Small CF's start around USD $300 Next size I believe is $1500. . . .and so on up and up and up.

The difference of course is volume.
You want high volume . ? . . . .your gonna pay bigger bucks.

Ours CF is smaller . .but we just let it circulate (50 gallons) for 2-3 hours then check it . . .depends on the debrie in the CF as to being run again or not.
And yes there is two water heating elements in the barrel.

I've got the feeling that when I head Ross's way next summer I'd better bring along many empty canisters...........

OH BOY . . . .I can see it now at customs: . . ."Your hauling what . .? . . .Veggie oil .?!?!"
"You WILL pull over . . this is going to take a while"

"hello Ross . . .come get your [email protected] oil . . . . I can't get it across the border"
"And these [email protected] handcuffs are mighty uncomfortable"

Homeland Stupidity you know.....................


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Of course by next summer any oil seed I have will just be coming into flower. I like the site Jim it actually puts in prices what a concept! Of course which one catches my eye? the $17500 one. Good to have that perspective early rather than build up any hopes!


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Any thoughts on the centrifuge Agoil press sells? http://www.agoilpress.com/oil_press.php first video.

I asked for details but I'm not noted for my patience. $2100 USD from the price list he sent. Price list says it polishes down to .01 micron!


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Got a reply from Agoil it will process up to 20gph. Not bad at all!


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Looks like some good stuff on that link.........
Do you need to go that high . .. (20gph) ?

Didn't know that Soy beans were that low in 'oil' (14% ?)
But hey the market for whats left over seems pretty good...

What type of 'bean' would be best in your area Ross ?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I really don't know why it so high in capacity when the press wouldn't keep up with it. Still if you bulk press settle and spin out the top, you might like to get through a 45 gallon drum or 2 that fast. No problem growing most beans, white and soy are field crops here. I'm sure safflower sunflower and canola will all grow here. Mustard is a weed so it grows esp. well!


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

An interesting thing in that link was running the press at the different speeds. And one of the examples was "running at this speed it was spattering all over the place"--or something close to that--- . . .So having a choice of 'speeds' would seem to be a very good thing verses just 'on and off'.

Around here I have seen fields of sunflowers . .very thick.
Not sure how you would 'harvest' those..........


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Me either but I'm sure you could just combine it with a grain head raised or maybe a corn head if you planted it in suitable rows. If it'll snap off a corn cob it should snap off a sunflower head. Friend of mine combined corn with a soybean flex head processign 1/3 of the plant and cob to get the corn. It worked quite well although it was slow! Setting the concave would be the trick, or however rotaries are set!


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Row head is supposed to work best for sunflowers but you don't see many of them anymore. Corn heads have to be modified slightly, grain heads will work but have the highest losses.

There's some canola grown in Prince Edward County Ross. Marketing is the only reason it isn't grown more in this area, the only guy I know growing it has to haul it to Hamilton then backhauls his fertilizer at the same time.

My cousin's husband grew mustard this year (deliberately), haven't had a chance to see how he did yet.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

Ross 
Pennycress a "winter weed " is being tested and showing promise as a double crop for producing bio oils . its oil content is twice that of soy beans .
you can get more information at 
bmibiofuels.com 
The company is currently give seed to interested farmers . 
Its a cousin to mustard . 
Theres a small story in the latest Farm show


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Thanks Pyrodon I'll check it out.


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