# can Terramycin be avoided?



## leaping leon (Jun 10, 2004)

I'll be checking with local sources because this probably varies from state to state...the American Foulbrood problem, that is.
One of my fears in getting another hive is that I'm allergic to the penicillin class of drugs, and probably to some others as well. When I had a bee hive years ago, Terramycin wasn't used as much, in fact I had my hive about the time foulbrood just started to be a problem, if I remember rightly. I've had allergic hives from coming in contact with some antibiotics, not just from taking it internally (which I haven't done with the penicillin-type drugs in years...) I feel itchy just thinking about it.
Is it possible to keep a hive going without Terramycin? Could you move the bees to a new hive if you see foulbrood? If the spores live in the hive and are not carried by the bees themselves it would seem that putting them in a new hive would control, slow down or eliminate the problem.
I haven't read that the antibiotics (used properly) cause allergies from eating the honey, so I'm not worried about using the honey, just worried about accidentally touching or inhaling it (the Terramycin).
I know the approach used by large scale apiaries might be different, but I'd appreciate any feedback on this...maybe someone knows someone who has bees and is allergic to antibiotics...


----------



## Oregonsparkie (Sep 3, 2003)

I dont treat with Terramycin. I know this probably makes some of you cringe but I take a more natural approach until I see any problems


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

It might vary from area to area. Where I live, I have never heard of anyone using routine terramycin. Then again, I live in Kansas, and you are in a different climate in another part of the world.


----------



## leaping leon (Jun 10, 2004)

Thanks guys...you give me hope.


----------



## bare (May 10, 2002)

I don't have a thing to back up my guess, so take it with a grain of salt...

I can't see that foulbroods can be near the problem they once were, since the introduction of mites. Mites not only killed off 90 plus percent of wild hives, but also killed off the hives of most hobby bee keepers, who seemed to have the most problems with foul brood in my experience. They either didn't recognize it, or did and couldn't/wouldn't afford to destroy the colony.

My first colonies were foulbrood hives I stupidly, talked a beekeeper out of and tried to regenerate. It was a miserable failure and I probably did more to spread the disease to my neighborhood than I care to think about.

So, what I'm saying, I don't think you need to overly concern yourself about foulbrood, rather varroa mites and their common treatment around here is Apistan strips. I don't know if you'll react to Apistan or if it is a pennicillin related, but the directions for installation do caution to wear gloves when handling.


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I took a beekeeping class at the lcoal college. The teacher (an entomologist) says that bees are becoming resistant to foulbrood. Which is why, when he treats a sick hive, he always re-queens on the theory that she lacks the genes for resistance.

Mind, he may treat the bees, but he burns the frames and scorches the boxes. They are a source of infection. Take it as you will, this is simply what he says.


----------



## Mike in Pa (May 29, 2002)

I've had TERRIBLE prolems with mites on by birds so I'm guessing they'll be a big problem with the bees too. I'll try the natural approach for foulbrood and mites though. 
Essential oils for one. Someone else said menthol is an approved treatment for mites and still be considered organic. Wonder if it'll work for birds somehow too?


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Bee mites arre different from bird mites, and I have NO idea if menthol would work!


----------



## justgojumpit (May 5, 2003)

menthol will work for the tracheal mites, but not for the varroa, I have heard. I use menthol in spring/summer and oxalic acid in the fall.

justgojumpit


----------



## Mike in Pa (May 29, 2002)

justgojumpit said:


> menthol will work for the tracheal mites, but not for the varroa, I have heard. I use menthol in spring/summer and oxalic acid in the fall.
> 
> justgojumpit



How do you use the menthol? I ordered some from Dadants but never opened it yet.


----------



## mtman (Sep 2, 2004)

you can allso use 2 parts sugar and i part crisco make a patty put it inbetween wax paper trim the wax paper put it inside the hive you trim the wax paper to the ends of the patty should be about 4 inches its good for prolong use it wont efect the honey


----------



## Mike in Pa (May 29, 2002)

mtman said:


> you can allso use 2 parts sugar and i part crisco make a patty put it inbetween wax paper trim the wax paper put it inside the hive you trim the wax paper to the ends of the patty should be about 4 inches its good for prolong use it wont efect the honey



You need to add the essential oils to the mix too. Right?


----------



## mtman (Sep 2, 2004)

Mike in Pa said:


> You need to add the essential oils to the mix too. Right?


no thats it the crisco coats there hairs when they eat the sugar the mites cant detect a place to hold on


----------



## Mike in Pa (May 29, 2002)

That's interesting. I had wondered what the crisco was for and how it figured in. There have been studies with good results of mixing the essential oils with it too though ... added bonus I guess. 

The oils (Wintergreen, tea tree, etc.) will be eaten by the bees either in patties or diluted in honey feed (too tough to mix in water) and when digested will go thru bees mamory glands and into mites. Interferes with reproduction in mites ... oils will kill on contact too.


----------



## justgojumpit (May 5, 2003)

Mike, you just put the packet of menthol in the hive. That's it! It will vaporise, but the outside temps need to be warm enough that you're wearing a tshirt. the bees hate the menthol, and will hang out the hive entrance, and they will fan at the entrance too, trying to rid the hive of the mentholated air. this serves to spread the menthol all over the hive, so every bee inhales it.

justgojumpit


----------



## Mike in Pa (May 29, 2002)

justgojumpit said:


> Mike, you just put the packet of menthol in the hive. That's it! It will vaporise, but the outside temps need to be warm enough that you're wearing a tshirt. the bees hate the menthol, and will hang out the hive entrance, and they will fan at the entrance too, trying to rid the hive of the mentholated air. this serves to spread the menthol all over the hive, so every bee inhales it.
> 
> justgojumpit




:haha: :haha: HEEEHEEHAAA ... wearing a T-SHIRT!! I mean to tellya ... I'll be in a pair of carhart overalls and whatever else I can fit on ... look like the little brother on "A Christmas Story" ... I am still a rookie! I know what you meant though.

Anyway, for one hive, just use one piece (it's a good sized packet)? Leave it in there until it's gone? Is it OK for the bees to have access to it? I wander if it'll work on my birds? 

Thanks!


----------



## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

you'll want it to be over 80* F in the hive. A small packet of an ounce or two should do it. 

I get good results against varroa mites by leaving the hive bottomless from the spring to the fall and installing a 2" spacer between the bottom board and lower hive body. If I notice varroa, at night I'll slip a bottom board covered in petroleum jelly (vaseline) in, shut off the top and smoked the heck out of the hive with pine needles. This causes the bees to groom more that causes the varroa to fall onto the vaseline where they get stuck.


----------



## Mike in Pa (May 29, 2002)

MullersLaneFarm said:


> you'll want it to be over 80* F in the hive. A small packet of an ounce or two should do it.
> 
> I get good results against varroa mites by leaving the hive bottomless from the spring to the fall and installing a 2" spacer between the bottom board and lower hive body. If I notice varroa, at night I'll slip a bottom board covered in petroleum jelly (vaseline) in, shut off the top and smoked the heck out of the hive with pine needles. This causes the bees to groom more that causes the varroa to fall onto the vaseline where they get stuck.



Now that's a pretty useful tip I could use, thanks! And thank you for answering the question I asked the moderator (with no answer).


----------



## justgojumpit (May 5, 2003)

I gave you my answer. I told you that you need to insert a packet of menthol, but that the temps need to be warm enough for the menthol to vaporize. Perhaps you want to read for an answer before beginning accusations!

your question: 

"How do you use the menthol? I ordered some from Dadants but never opened it yet."

my answer:

"Mike, you just put the packet of menthol in the hive. That's it! It will vaporise, but the outside temps need to be warm enough that you're wearing a tshirt. the bees hate the menthol, and will hang out the hive entrance, and they will fan at the entrance too, trying to rid the hive of the mentholated air. this serves to spread the menthol all over the hive, so every bee inhales it.

justgojumpit"

I don't see where your complaint stems from, as I answered your question the same day you asked it.


----------



## justgojumpit (May 5, 2003)

by the way, I think you can get menthol from betterbee, and probably some other suppliers as well.

justgojumpit


----------

