# truthfully, how many of you have harvestable rabbits at 8 weeks?



## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

I guess I'm feeling that harvesting at 8 weeks is just never going to happen for us..... harvesting at 11-13 weeks works perfectly. 

My goal for harvesting is 5 lbs live weight. 

We hit all the benchmarks for meat breeders except the 8 week harvesting. We've got lovely very large nz black rabbits from meat breeder stock. They have healthy large litters. The aggregate litters weigh 8 lbs or more at 4 weeks. A few of the buns will weigh 4 lbs at 8 weeks.... but none ever weigh 5 lbs.

To feed our family of 4 a 4lb live weight rabbit is too small. I need a 5 lb bun for this job.

So is it our rabbits/rabbitry practices that prevent us from harvesting at 8 weeks or is it my goal of 5 lb live weight?

When do you harvest and what are your goals for harvesting? Does anyone really harvest 5 lb buns at 8 weeks? If so, what the heck do you do??!!!

thanks
Cathy


----------



## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Depends on so many factors, Cathleen: diet, genetics, climate, even available grow-out space. I think many people here find it takes 10 - 12 weeks to grow fryers out to five pounds live weight. 

Mine often take more like 14 - 16 weeks on the hay/greens/grains diet. I don't consider this a problem, since the rabbits are for our own use and the overall cost of getting my five pound fryer is still less than when I fed pellets. 

I don't want this to turn into another one of those natural foods versus pellets threads, but if my memory serves me correctly you do not feed a pellets-only diet. If this is so, it *may* be part of the reason they are not making five pounds by eight weeks.


----------



## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

We're feeding our own mix that goes like this: 1 part pellets: 3 parts organic goat food (soy, oats, corn): 1/4 part black oil sunflower seed. Alfalfa hay all the time. The buns hate the corn but love everything else. Have not noticed any change in growth since going off the exclusive pellet feeding.

Probably I could harvest some 10 weeks old at 5 lbs... but it's easier to wait till they are all 5 lbs and do it in 2 batches. Never exactly eager to get to butchering, lol.


----------



## MariaAZ (Jun 5, 2007)

I've gotten 4+ lbs at 8 weeks with Brazilian x Rex (first generation) fed a diet of 16% protein rabbit pellets. I don't think this is bad at all, especially since both Brazilian and Rex adult weights are around 8-10 lbs, which is smaller than commercially raised breeds. It might have been possible to get higher weights with an 18% feed, but I'm happy with what I've got. However, I don't expect subsequent generations to perform as well, as it seems the best growth rates happen with that first crossing of two different breeds.

Before settling on the Rex, I was researching commercial breeds and had decided on getting a couple Californian does and an Altex buck. This particular cross is supposed to create fast-growing litters. It is a terminal cross though; you don't keep any of the offspring for breeding as the advantages come about from that initial breeding and are lost in subsequent generations. Which means one would need to have access to both pure Californian AND Altex lines. If one lives where there are commercial breeders using this cross, it would be great; you would only have to purchase replacement breeding stock. Unfortunately, the closest Altex lines I could find were in Texas, so I chose a breed that was more readily available locally. Still, someday I would really like to get hold of an Altex buck and a couple Cal does...


----------



## morgansrgr8 (Oct 14, 2008)

So how much room does a litter of bunnies need to grow well?
Linda


----------



## KimTN (Jan 16, 2007)

Hi,
I think the 5 pounds at 8 weeks is far fetched. I had huge commercial NZs and they never had kits that weighed in at the magic 5 pounds at 8 weeks. I've run into people that claimed that they had rabbits that could do it, but then refused to sell any breeding stock. You can imagine what I thought about their claims. 10 to 12 weeks is about when you will get the 5 pound fryers. I personally don't like them that old because I can detect a strange taste. I prefer to kill from 6 to 8 weeks. I just fix 2 rabbits for dinner. They are also very tender early on and seem to get tough after 8 weeks. Of course, this is just my opinion.


----------



## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

cathleenc said:


> We're feeding our own mix that goes like this: 1 part pellets: 3 parts organic goat food (soy, oats, corn): 1/4 part black oil sunflower seed. Alfalfa hay all the time. The buns hate the corn but love everything else. Have not noticed any change in growth since going off the exclusive pellet feeding.
> 
> Probably I could harvest some 10 weeks old at 5 lbs... but it's easier to wait till they are all 5 lbs and do it in 2 batches. Never exactly eager to get to butchering, lol.


If the results you are getting are comparable to pellet feeding, then you could experiment with other factors. Perhaps some cross breeding, along the lines of what MariaAZ suggested. Also, you may wish to look at the amount of space in grow-out cages. I have a *totally unsubstantiated hunch* that this may be a more important factor than I previously thought.

There are no doubt other factors that you can look at too that may affect growth rate and perhaps other members will suggest some of them to you.


----------



## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

I usually will kill them around 5 or 6 weeks if they are for the dogs, and when I did weigh them they were about two and a half pounds. There was a lot of variation, some of those were up to a little more than three pounds and probably would have hit about 4.5 pounds at 8 weeks. I was feeding mainly pellets at that point. Now I feed more hay, and don't have a scale available to me. They "look" smaller and "feel" lighter, but I don't know how much. That size is good for the dogs, it makes up a large meal for them and the next day they get a small meal.

It sounds goofy, but the "people" rabbits are usually the leftovers that I didn't get around to butchering until later. The dogs get the nice tender young rabbits, and we get the ones that are at the point where it is butcher or breed them. Luckily we butcher the males first, so we don't get breeding age bucks on the table. Plus I do a lot of crockpot style or ground meat recipes, so you wouldn't know if it is tough or not.

While I was getting bigger rabbits, and faster, I was spending a fortune on feeding them. And that was even though I butchered them very young! I think that your cost per pound should also be taken into consideration, not just your age per pound.

And I think I need a kick in the bum to get a new scale and record some more data!

Kayleigh


----------



## LilElk (Jan 16, 2007)

The only times I've achieved the magic 8wk goal was on litters of 3 or less. No profit there. All other things the same the space seems to make a diff between 10 or 12wk in my barn.

lilelk


----------



## dlwelch (Aug 26, 2002)

> Does anyone really harvest 5 lb buns at 8 weeks? If so, what the heck do you do??!!!


Although I rarely butcher 5 pound fryers at 56 days, it's not 
uncommon for them to be at that weight by that age.

Several things are important to achieve that.
1. Genetics
2. Feeding program. I see no way you can achieve that goal unless
you have consistant feed formulated for growth. I do not feed additional
fiber (hay, grass, etc.). A rabbit utilizes very little fiber for growth. It
is a "pass through" and keeps the gut functioning well. If your diet is
25% fiber and mine is 15%, I have an additional 10% of the ration
coming from beneficial sources to improve growth rates.

When I purchased my foundation stock, it was taking 12 weeks to
get fryers to 5 or 5 1/4 pounds. After careful selection of replacement
stock over the next year, the time was drastically reduced.

Do *all* my fryers reach 5 pounds by 56 days? No!

Do I want them to? No..........because I have a more profitable
market needing 5 pound fryers at 70 days! My focus has changed
again! 



> The aggregate litters weigh 8 lbs or more at 4 weeks.


From my personal experience with my NZW, the kits should weigh
1.5 pounds at 28 days to have the weight at 5 pounds by 56 days.
For litter of 8 kits, the minimum weight should be 12 pounds.
For the most part, kits weighing 1 pound at 28 days will take
70 days or longer to reach your desired weight.

Three things might be helpful.
1. Select for better lactation genetics.

2. Improve the diet.

3. Obtain a very growthy buck who can pass along the
growthy genetics you want. 

My experience is with NZ whites and Californians. I have never
owned NZ blacks. 

Just my personal experience and observations as
a meat producer.

Linda Welch


----------



## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

Hey Linda,

I'm sure you've mentioned it before, but what percentage protein/fat/fiber are you feeding your does with litters and replacement stock?


----------



## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Linda, mentioned that she had to select for good growth. And what I am finding is the rabbit I original bought do not throw kits that grow that well and they were all different sizes. So I just butcher the day they turn 11 weeks. No matter what size they are.
The second gerneratins kits are still butchered at 11 weeks, but I get more that weigh 5 pounds.
I am hoping to soon even out the litters more and cut more days off the growth period each generation. Basically you will find that breeders don't sell their best stock very often and you'll need to breed your own line to meet your own expectations.
Of course the problem with this is when you do get one that weighs 5 pounds very early you'll want to save it for replacement stock and not waste it for freezer stock.


----------



## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

dlwelch said:


> From my personal experience with my NZW, the kits should weigh
> 1.5 pounds at 28 days to have the weight at 5 pounds by 56 days.
> For litter of 8 kits, the minimum weight should be 12 pounds.
> For the most part, kits weighing 1 pound at 28 days will take
> 70 days or longer to reach your desired weight.


Since reading this, I'm thinking maybe I am remembering my numbers incorrectly. If I ever finish unpacking this house I will need to find the notebook I was using before we moved.

Kayleigh


----------



## Pat Lamar (Jun 19, 2002)

I also had fryers weighing 5 lbs. at 8 weeks, and although not all of my litters were so successful, a good majority of them were. Strict culling for size for replacement stock and fostering out any kits in litters of more than 8 per litter. Indeed, genetics plays a very large part, as does litter size. I fed pellets and gave out hay once or twice a week to keep the guts functioning well. I'm also in a northern state with cooler weather, which also contributes to a good growth rate, although it does get hot in my side of the state, but not as hot as the southern states. I liked my performing bucks to weigh between 10 to 12 lbs. (New Zealand whites).

Pat Lamar


----------



## bowbuild (Aug 2, 2008)

I raise American Chins, my buck is just over 10lbs, I have a few bucks. My females weigh in at 11-12lbs, and yes I can get very close to 5lbs I would say closer to 4.5lbs. I feed pellets 16%, then 18% plus whole oats as a 50/50 mix....tasty critters...

Bowbuild


----------



## bunnylover (Nov 1, 2007)

My Rex usually take an extra week or 2, they don't grow as fast as my NZWs and Californians did/do. I like them better though because they are more colorful, I like their fur, and they seem a lot healthier and more vigorous than my NZWs. It also depnds on their diet as has already been mentioned.


----------



## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

My target for meat rabbits has always been 5 lbs at 10 weeks (70 days) because of the weight limit for meat pen competition. 

Meat pens have a max weight of 5 lbs at 70 days.
For info about meat pens, please visit my web page
http://www.rabbitgeek.com/meatpennotes.html

When we sold or loaned breeding pairs for meat pens, we didn't want rabbits that could go over weight and be disqualified.

Our sons competed in meat pens with New Zealands and American Chinchillas. My American Blues would sometimes go over 5 lbs by 10 weeks. There was another breeder who often went over 5 lbs at 8-9 weeks, but she was using a special growth formula feed. I fed Purina 18% Professional with some calf manna.

Have a good day!


----------



## hacon1 (Feb 4, 2008)

I have NZ reds and whites. I am harvesting at 12 weeks and consistantly getting 5-7 lbs. My reds tend to do a lttle bit better than my whites do. I am feeding pellets at 85% and hay/alfalfa/clover at 15% to the adults and pellets at 100% to the buns. When I first started, I was having problems getting the 5 lbs. I have since switched bucks many times and have finally found one that I really like. He breeds well with all of my does and my litters have increased in number and the bun weights are pretty conisitant. My does are all 11-12 lbs and my buck is 13 lbs. My largest factor is finally having breeders that seem to be very compatible. One of my does produced the county grand champion & first place last year for a very lucky 4-H member. Hopefully it will help my sales this coming year. It's a lot of trial & error until you finally get what you want. When you find it, stick to it.


----------



## Jcran (Jan 4, 2006)

I use Templeton rabbit feed which is a popular California feed; I think its 16%. What is the name of the 18% feed and how do you mix it with oats/why do you do it that way.


----------



## dlwelch (Aug 26, 2002)

Beaniemom said:


> Hey Linda,
> 
> I'm sure you've mentioned it before, but what percentage protein/fat/fiber are you feeding your does with litters and replacement stock?


I stock four different feeds. I have never been successful with
"one size fits all" for rabbit feeding.
Keep in mind that the feed tag doesn't tell the complete story of
the ration when it comes to energy levels.

The breeder formula is based on 50% alfalfa with oats, soybean
meal, wheat mids, Calf manna, chelated minerals and probiotics.

The breeder formula is:
Protein - 18%
Fat - 2.5%
Fiber - Min to max range is: 14% to 18%
Some states do not require that a minimum fiber be placed on
the tag. It is a requirement in Texas.


----------



## bowbuild (Aug 2, 2008)

Jcran,

Excel is the name of the feed I use, it does have small amount of corn in it, I know some don't like that, but I see no harm. Anyway here is a link to the reason I do what I do, there are more than one place I have found this info.....check it out ...http://books.google.com/books?id=z9...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

Bowbuild


----------



## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

Thanks Linda! Yeah, I have been trying (and failing) to do a "one size fits all" type of feed, The Lionheads and the Satin Angoras look nice on the new feed, Rex and SF, Not so much. Fur looks fine, they're just not gaining right on it, could be the volume they'd need to eat, I'd need to be feeding 3X per day instead of twice, unless I want to go buy all new feeders! :O


----------



## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

We tried for the magic number once. We were instructed to add oats to the pellet diet. It is most likely due to our breeding stock, but we didn't manage to achieve the weight gain either, in fact, they seemed to grow no faster than our regular hay/natural salad and pellets regime. 

We grew rats though! Biguns, if I coulda got a hold of 'm I'da skinned them instead!

For us, the extra $$ more than certainly didn't out weigh the rewards even if we would have achieved our goal, so back to the natural diet with pellet suppliment we went. 

I gained a lot of useful information through the Yahoo Meat Rabbit group. You could inquire over there for even more opinions. 

good luck. If you find a formula that gives you some success please share.


----------



## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

Beaniemom said:


> Thanks Linda! Yeah, I have been trying (and failing) to do a "one size fits all" type of feed, The Lionheads and the Satin Angoras look nice on the new feed, Rex and SF, Not so much. Fur looks fine, they're just not gaining right on it, could be the volume they'd need to eat, I'd need to be feeding 3X per day instead of twice, unless I want to go buy all new feeders! :O


Below is my standard blurb on feed:
I usually feed Purina Complete (16% protein) and Purina Professional (18%
protein). Actually I mix them together to create an average 17%
protein feed. Lately I've been using Purina Show Formula (16%) mixed
with the Purina Professional.

I raised small rabbits, Holland Lops and Dutch as well as large rabbits
like American Blues, French Lops and Angoras.

The Angoras and Americans do well with higher protein requirement but
the protein is not so high as to create problems with the smaller breeds.

This has been our primary feed for many years. We occasionally try
another feed but when the flesh condition drops, we switch back.

It may not be the fault of the other feed. Any switch in feed is
stressful and will cause some loss of condition. We should probably
switch for 6 months to really test it a new feed.

But when we have won many Best of Breed awards with different breeds
on the Purina feed, we usually wind up back on the Purina.

Right now we are feeding Templeton, a local brand of 16% feed, to our
Angoras and they are holding their condition well. Waiting to see how 
well the wool holds up.

Have a good day!


----------



## justrabbits (Apr 1, 2008)

Has anyone rver noticed that there can be food in a feeder and nobody eating, but as soon as you add some feed they immediately start eating .Its as if your reminding them they`re suppose to be eating.


----------



## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

Yes I notice in two of my grow out cages that there IS food in the dish, but as soon as I stir it or add some, they rush right in to eat.

Here is my take with this. IF we fed our sled dogs 10 K calories a day, we'd get best results feeding it in 3 or more fractions a day. The smaller more frequent meals seemed to be more efficient for sled dogs. I am guessing if you want to do that much work, you can probably boost the growth efficiency, not necessarily by feeding more food, but paying a visit more frequently, say 3x a day to the growout cages when you stir the food dish and add food. Since I have seen this in my bunnies, I am setting up that sort of thing on an informal basis.

Good Luck

DG



justrabbits said:


> Has anyone rver noticed that there can be food in a feeder and nobody eating, but as soon as you add some feed they immediately start eating .Its as if your reminding them they`re suppose to be eating.


----------



## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

I agree, DG. My geese will stand ankle deep in dandelions, but compete for the one I hold out toward them. My chickens love treats thrown to them bit by bit... the same food in their bowl is just ordinary. Animals love a bit of attention with their food.


----------

