# For an old joke that we all know the punchline...



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

...LEOs working license and light checkpoints still like to ask what I am scared of because I carry my minimag or .38 derringer as a shirt pocket back up to my pocket holstered weapon.

Tonight I saw a check point ahead so I laid my I.D. holder with DL and CCW in view on my dash and rolled down my window so I could keep my hands at 10 and 2 as I was interviewed and told the officer that yes I had two firearms on my person and where they were.

As he wasn't a deputy who knew me , he had me exit my vehicle and while allowing me to use my door frame to steady myself, removed both weapons for hot gun check and even after breaching and unloading my .38 couldn't find the S/N and I had to tell him it was on the cylinder hinge and recite it to him to help him verify it.

Of course as he was checking my weapon S/Ns, while waiting for a return from dispatch, he asked me what I was scared of to be carrying two firearms and I responded with the expected "nothing" instead of asking him why he wore an ankle back up and risk an Asp across my teeth.

After he let me get back in my Tahoe and did his light walk around and returned my revolver, derringer and I.Ds and told me Thank You, I said "Deputy, I know it's a standard joke about carrying two weapons but for me it really is a safety factor in this wild west sort of environment we now live in , especially in areas prone to car jackings or invasions even if the doors are locked because of our seat belt law.

He looked at me quizzically and asked me why that made my shirt stashed derringer necessary and I explained that if I noticed someone coming at my vehicle to possibly knock out a window without a means of easy escape by giving it the gas, I knew I could easily draw two rounds from my shirt pocket for a close quarter double tap instead of possibly getting tangled in my pocket and seat belt and performing a self castration.

I also mentioned that by having my firearms on my person instead of simply stowed in my vehicle, I better ensured possession control of them regardless of any passengers.

As I left the checkpoint I noticed the deputy smiling and tilting his head at my vehicle as I returned home.

Maybe I gave him something to keep in mind about range trained law compliant firearm owners that many of us as the generally moonlighting LEO range masters we train under, try to keep a plan B back up available and aren't "just scared of something".


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Uhh what state is this with such a silly law? Sounds like a great way for cops to get themselves shot! Makes no sense to me! What bloody business is it of his why you carry two three or 4 handguns ? I rarely carry 2 handguns but often I will add zap stick flashlight and a fighting knife. For all practical purposes, they are more tools than weapons, 
Dutch


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Right now our carry laws are a hybrid of concealed with permit and open carry with or without. To be legal without a permit, the pistol butt has to be visible regardless if in a waist or pocket holster, so if carrying in a pocket or pocket holster to be legal without a $20 a year CCW permit, as long as you have the butt of the weapon visible outside of your pocket it's legal open carry unless where you are has posted the location as a no firearms zone........ until you get in your car when our current carry law qualifies your vehicle as concealing your weapon and you either have to hold a CCW permit or unload the weapon, lock it in a hard carry case and stow it in the trunk or in floor storage compartment at the rear of a SUV or locked box in a pick up cab out of reach of the driver behind the seat.

If you have a CCW permit, you can carry open or concealed in your car or anywhere not posted as a gun free zone and don't have to unload , double lock and stow.

Of course being CCW permitted if the LEO runs your car tag and the vehicle is registered in your name, your CCW permit is displayed on their MDT display along with your DL info before the stop regardless if your armed at the time.

When our state first started mixing concealed and open carry a few years back, a neighbor who is a S.O deputy simplified our weird hybrid carry conditions by reminding me that for 36 years I have kept my CCW permit current and as long as I continue to do so, I can carry any way I choose to and just avoid the places posted as No Guns Allowed just as before the conditional open carry law, we all knew not to carry in bars or police stations/ jail visiting areas, which since the new hybrid carry law are now clearly posted.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Dutch 106 said:


> Uhh what state is this with such a silly law? Sounds like a great way for cops to get themselves shot! Makes no sense to me! What bloody business is it of his why you carry two three or 4 handguns ? I rarely carry 2 handguns but often I will add zap stick flashlight and a fighting knife. For all practical purposes, they are more tools than weapons,
> Dutch


stop and check sounds like harassment to me.
what is the probable cause for a stop?
Alabama might just still be having problems getting over Jim Crow laws.

Unfortunately many are conditioned to think that this is acceptable behavior/acceptable restrictions.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

GCP,

Dl and up to date insurance checkpoints became legal the same year mandatory proof of vehicle registration and liability auto insurance became law in 1997. From then LEAs also use the legal registration and insurance check as an opportunity to smell or see evidence of intoxicated or drug impaired driving under the in view of the LEO aspect of the state laws from the 1970s.

Now those two aspects frequently get combined with the decades old CCW requirement that if confronted by a LEO for any official interview , a holder agrees upon issuance of their permit to inform the LEO and now they are using the combined collection of conditions to catch the ones who choose not to get a permit and either don't know the conditions or are too lazy to unload and stow and don't take into consideration that the current carry law considers the car as being worn to conceal their hip holstered weapon.

If they have their weapon hip holstered in a vehicle and no permit, the weapon can be confiscated in the field and may or may not be returned to them.

technically our state now allows open carry, but with the various statutes of 50 years or so, it is sure a stacked deck favoring the house, which is why I will continue to permit renew because my carry weapons are worth more than $20 a year.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I guess I would like to see the data as to how effective these stop and checks are , did auto fatalities drop by 50% when they were instituted ?

DUI rate drop 50%

here the officer needs probable cause for a stop 

we also do not need to notify , unless asked


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

According to the tow man / mechanic I use and a couple LEOs I know , over the past 20 years , DUI has dropped by almost half and no insurance impounds are up. On the down side the drop in DUIs has been replaced by texting and cellphone use while driving and violation of the passenger limit of the 16 to 18 graduated driver license conditions the state put in effect about 10 years back.

One funny probable cause for a stop so a LEO can look and sniff here is the requirement of a light illuminating the rear license plate. Even though if they are behind you, it is illuminated by their headlights and it is not critical as tail lights, brake lights, blinkers or headlights.

One of the LEOs I know said he gets about 10 drunk or drug DUI / possession busts a year just because the tag light gave him probable cause to initiate a traffic stop for equipment repair and saw /smelled the bigger offense while giving the no point /turn in the ticket within 10 days from issuance and showing the light has been fixed.

That cop told me one of his biggest drug busts was on an out of state car with no rear tag light and the car smelled like a pot field when he interviewed the driver. He said when the drug dog arrived to search it they found about 40 pounds of marijuana, a dozen ziplock bags of meth and prescription pills in many names and the driver had beer on his breath.

After hearing how a tag light can give probable cause, I put a salvaged convex store security mirror up in my garage so I can do light walk around check of all my lights from behind the steering wheel before hitting the road


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

10 DUI from one officer is impressive , where I live 20 DUI is a large year for the whole city it is a very small city .

the texting thing is ridiculous , you see so many people driving around looking at their lap I know some people that have been hit while the other driver was texting/looking at their phone luckily none hurt badly.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

The texting thing is ridiculous. My tow guy / mechanic right now has a pair of KIAs one model year different from the same texting rear end that were both liability insurance only owner request tows that he got the wrecks in exchange for the tow and storage fees and he thinks he can piece the two together as a rebuilt 2011 or 2012.


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