# Weapon choice?



## countryrancher (Oct 28, 2012)

What do you guy suggest a 300 win mag or a 308?? I hunt deer and have to deal with scaring poachers off the property. i have shot plenty of 308's and only shot 300 win mags but a few times. I want to be able to hunt deer antelope as well as an ocassional elk and moose. i have dropped plenty with the 308 so i know i could do it with the 300. but i have been informed i can get alot more distance with the 300 win mag. What do you guys think?? Thank you


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

The 308 is a little light for moose or elk, but just right for deer sized game. The 300 is a little heavy for deer, but just right for moose and elk.

I'd say if you already have a .308 and can use it well, then stick with it.


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## WestFork (Dec 20, 2012)

Those two guns... well a .308 isn't anywhere close to a 300 win mag. Both nice calibers for their intended use. It depends on the type of country you hunt, whether you need to take 300-400 yard shots or not. If you take long shots, then calibers like the 300win mag, 7mm mag etc. are great. I've shot lots of deer with both my .308 winchester and my 7mm rem mag. But I do like the 7mm rem mag for large game animals. Lately though, I've been enjoying black powder hunting with my .50 caliber muzzleloader.

One thing to consider is the cost and availability of ammunition. With my muzzleloader, I enjoy making my own bullets from scrap lead. The cost of the powder is the only expense. More fun that way for me!


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## Tubby (Dec 14, 2012)

.308 is not light for moose. A 6.5x55 is used extensively for moose in the Norwegian countries. Show up with a .308 you can handle rather than a .300 that pushes you around.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I don't think I have enough fingers and toes put together to count how many canadians have shot moose with a 30-30. It is all in shot place ment and the proper bullet slected to do the job.
I've shot a lot of deer here in Michigan with a 308 hand loaded with Speer 150gr. mag tips. 
I have shot a couple deer with a 300 win mag 200+ yards across cranberry bogs in the UPPER again hand loaded with a 168gr. HPBT game king serria bullet. 

If you have the 38 stick with it, you will be fine out to about 350 yards if you pratiace those yardages.


 Al


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

My personal opinion is whichever one you are comfortable shooting and have confidence in. Given a choice of only those two Cal. I would choose the 308. It may be a little lite for elk/moose but ultimately it comes down to shot placement and there is a reason the 308 was the designated sniper cartridge for many years.

FWIW I shoot a 30-06 a near twin to the 308. While it's fine for deer, it's a bit of overkill for antelope if you hit them anywhere but the ribs...


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## dkhern (Nov 30, 2012)

like said look at availibility of ammo and cost if you handload 300 will cost more cause of extra powder. imo 300 louder and considerably more recoil


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## mink (Feb 10, 2005)

the 308 was and still is used by military snipers for a reason. very accurate round , moderate recoil. that said the 308 will do just fine for anything in north america. i just cant grasp the american people getting what i call magumitis.... you have a 308 stick with it , you wont be disappointed.


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## coup (Feb 28, 2007)

main thing is to use the right bullet for intended target......
do some research on best bullet for intended game animal.....
don't try using same load-bullet for other size animal.
this means you have to check zero with at least two loads,,,,,you can write down where zero is with both or more....


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

Tubby said:


> .308 is not light for moose. A 6.5x55 is used extensively for moose in the Norwegian countries. Show up with a .308 you can handle rather than a .300 that pushes you around.


 My trapping partner was given a trip to hunt sheep in the Brooks, wife, bought him a Weatherby, and he left his '06's at home. Long story short, he ---- near didnt get the ram, which he could have taken easily with the '06, due to his fascination with "Weatherby".

Shoot what you know ! Except griz, 6.5, 7mmX'08, .308 etc, good enuf for me for all game. IF you want a long range shooter, you may consider some form of 7mm MAG. Perfect choice for me, 6.5 X 55 Swede Mauser. Lower 48 all round gun, .270 or 7mmX'08. Total 1 gun arsenal, .30/'06, for me.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

Iâve got both and to be honest hardly shoot or hunt with either one. Deer 90% of the time I use a .270, and for elk I use either an 8x68S magnum, or a .350 mag, depending on terrain. The .300 Win isnât as bad (or good) as most make it out to be. Itâs a couple hundred feet faster than an 06 with most bullets. It will give you some extra distance with a greater MPBR (maximum point blank range) if youâre into that method of zeroing. Itâs flatter shooting with heavier bullets, and has more energy. But at normal distances (100-300 yards) I doubt thereâs a game animal that would recognize the difference, except for maybe a large bear. 

But it all comes with expense, both in ammo cost, and added recoil. I reload for both, so the expense is just in powder. IF you reload, the .300 is a pretty flexible cartridge that can mimic the .308 and -06. Both the .308 and .300 have been used in match and sniper rifles, so the potential for accuracy is probably a wash. The .300 will require more practice to get comfortable with; the recoil will be a factor for a lot of folks not used to it. 

For me, it would depend on what I was going to do more of; deer sized game, get the .308, elk and larger, Iâd spring for the .300. But, by reloading I can always downsize for the application. 

Chuck


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## WestFork (Dec 20, 2012)

Good info Chuck R. I've heard the 300 mag is really versatile as far as loads. I have an old .308 model 88 Winchester I've used a lot for deer. I would use it for elk, if I could find an elk. I also have a 7mm mag. I guess it just depends on how far you want to shoot & how dead you want them to be when you get there!


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

People talk like elk and moose are somehow supernatural animals. A .308 in the rib cage at reasonable ranges, will kill either about the same amount of dead as a .300. If one insists on not honing his hunting skills, and fails to get within 3 or 4 hundred yards of said game, then choose the .300. But for elk and moose, a .308 will suffice beautifully. And do it with less bang, less recoil, and less fuss in a much smaller package, a much lighter gun.

I think it is funny guys think a .30-06 is great for moose and elk, while a .308 is "a bit light". Unless you are shooting 200 grain or heavier bullets, these two are twins...


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Sorry, double post.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

If you decide on the 300 win mag you might want to reduce the recoil to 243 levels. 
http://magnaport.com/company.html

does not have the back blast and increased noise of a brake.

 Al


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## RonM (Jan 6, 2008)

A .308 is /was/always will be/ my choice of caliber ,it will work on anything in the lower 48,less recoil, cheaper ammo, fun to shoot....I take a 30-30 when I go out of state just for a backup.No oversized stuff for me..........308 Win Model 88, my fav.


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## tgmr05 (Aug 27, 2007)

I would pick 308. More commonly found, less expensive for similar/same weight bullet. A 300 mag is an expensive way to do similar impact on a slightly flatter trajectory a little further downrange with more recoil...


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

The 300 is really overkill for what you need. Yes, the 308 is a little light for elk and moose. If you don't own either I would opt for a 30-06, it will give you a range of bullet weights to suit everything you need.

Bobg


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

farmerDale said:


> People talk like elk and moose are somehow supernatural animals. A .308 in the rib cage at reasonable ranges, will kill either about the same amount of dead as a .300. If one insists on not honing his hunting skills, and fails to get within 3 or 4 hundred yards of said game, then choose the .300. But for elk and moose, a .308 will suffice beautifully. And do it with less bang, less recoil, and less fuss in a much smaller package, a much lighter gun.
> 
> I think it is funny guys think a .30-06 is great for moose and elk, while a .308 is "a bit light". Unless you are shooting 200 grain or heavier bullets, these two are twins...


Spot on...

I own two 308's and love them.

With mag calibers you will experience increased barrel wear from the excess powder along with more recoil. If you reload you can lighten the 300, if not you are stuck buying expensive store bought ammo.

I too laugh when I hear people talk about shooting deer around here with a 300...a 308 is good out to 800-1000 yards in the right hands and is still deadly...we ain't hunting armor plate.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

My issue is with the statement about scaring poachers off the property. .308 or .300 win mag? Why not an RPG? Here in New York scaring people might get you locked up for a lot of years.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

unioncreek said:


> The 300 is really overkill for what you need. Yes, the 308 is a little light for elk and moose. If you don't own either I would opt for a 30-06, it will give you a range of bullet weights to suit everything you need.
> 
> Bobg


Tell the dozens of moose, elk, bears hanging on the wall on my farm that a .308 is "light". lol


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

Another +1 for the 308...love mine and agree that shot placement is everything. I put 2 more notches in mine this year....8point whitetail, and Wi Black bear.

brownegg


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

Iâll weigh in on the Magnum VS standard cartridges one more time with a plus for the magnum side. 

As I posted earlier yes, the .308, .270 and others are perfectly capable of killing an elk presented a good shot. What a lot of folks donât discuss is that thereâs a good chance you wonât be presented a âgoodâ shot. Elk hunting on public hunted land is tough, thereâs generally lots of competition and well spooked animals. Success rates are generally low, somewhere around 25% last time I checked. Iâve been on public land elk hunts where my only âlegalâ elk seen was a fleeting quartering shot. That was it for 12 days of hard hunting. Three point or better tags really limit your opportunities ( I support them, but watching a heard pass by and only counting cows and spike sort of sucks). For example a lot of Native Americans kill big game with calibers that we think are ridiculous for the application, but theyâre often not bound by the same constraints such as limited seasons. 

In addition, a lot of hunters are not local; theyâre not there for the entire season, maybe a few days at best. The .308 while a great cartridge does not have the same capability that a .300 has, thatâs pretty much a fact. Anybody that disputes that, either canât read a ballistic table, or doesnât subscribe to the laws of physics that the rest of us do. A 200 grain at close to 2800 FPS penetrates further than any game bullet a .308 can launch. A 180 grain at 3000 FPS is flatter shooting than most commonly loaded bullets in .308, this will give you a margin of error should your calibrated eyes be slightly off with your range estimate. 

That 200 grain has enough oomph to penetrate deep enough to hit vitals on an off-angled shot. I kind of look at it as meeting the 12â penetration requirementâ for SD/HD ammunition. The other bad aspect of public ground is that any elk that does run after being hit stands a pretty good chance of getting shot again and tagged by someone else. This is the one scenario where I try to break bone, and get a DRT, even at the cost of some meat. 

I agree wholeheartedly that youâre better off with a .308 that youâve practiced with and can handle than any magnum thatâs a stranger. But, thereâ a reason magnums exist, and itâs not just marketing hype. If youâre carrying your .308 and get a shot thatâs a little long, or not an ideal presentation, IF youâre a gentleman youâll pass on a shot that might be acceptable with a .300 or another magnum. Which is cool, but it might just have been the only legal elk youâll see. 

Chuck


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

My main rifle is a 308 even though I recommended he get a 30-06 if heheh was thinking of elk and moose also. A 308 will take down anything in North America if presented with a good shot, but how often will you hunt moose and elk? You could possibly borrow a rifle for those times.

Bobg


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

I don't care if a person has a 600 nitro express, the animal still needs to be hit in the boiler room. .300 winch mag or not. All shots must be careful. To make believe that with a magnum you should take chancy shots is kinda silly, no? 

It also depends on hunting style, distances, and most importantly, hunting skill. For the record, I have magnums as well, I just don't use them much anymore, my hunting style has changed, I have become a better stalker, and so shots are much closer than I used to get them at.... I walked up on a bull moose last fall, and was within 25 yards when he finally stood up. A .30-.30 would have been effective in that case. It does depend, and I have nothing against magnums. I just get surprised at the .308 being called, " a little light"...


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## moonwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

the most common caliber in the northland for moose hunting is 180 grain .308 caliber.
for deer hunting, the .308 is versatile when using 150 grain. It's a good choice all around and not at all 'too light'


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

JJ Grandits said:


> My issue is with the statement about scaring poachers off the property. .308 or .300 win mag? Why not an RPG? Here in New York scaring people might get you locked up for a lot of years.


I have to agree with this... If all you want to do is scare people, a 22LR whizzing by their head would be more than enough to make most people want to leave, but no matter what, if you are using a gun to "scare" people, you really need to rethink the whole picture, and not just what size gun you need...


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

I killed my largest animal (a very large, old bull elk) with a .308 and a 150gr Barnes X Triple Shock. Complete pass through and one very dead elk. High lung shot and his chin bounced off the ground he hit the deck so fast. 

No elk or moose will survive a good hit with a proper bullet from a .308.

I also know that most folks will shoot a .308 more accurately than they will a .300 Magnum.

As the old Indian guide said "Any gun good, shoot'um good".

My 40 years of big game experience says the guide was right. Worry more about practice than an additional 300 fps.


Tim


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## Lilith (Dec 29, 2012)

It seems to me that a lot of hunters on this forum prefer a heaver gun than I personally find necessary. I have exactly 4 guns in my list of favorites. 

.223 savage - Used for short range (200yd or less) deer and antelope; anything smaller up to 350 yards. 
.270 savage - Used for Deer over 200 yd, used for elk, bear and other large game
7mag winchester (the meat stick) Used for any difficult / long shot large game hunts, as well as Wolf. (I never hunt wolf with anything smaller than the meat stick.)
10.22 pistol- used for ground squirrels, plinking, and "point blank" (2-5 ft) kill shots. 

I have several others, but these are my favorites. I am a smaller framed female that can not handle the kick of a large gun. My 7 mag has to be sighted in from a bench vise as I can only handle shooting it once or twice a day. I make up for the smaller weapon choices by knowing each of these guns inside and out. I am not happy that the gun is "sighted in" until I can pull consistent cloverleaf patterns at 100 yds, 200 yds, and 300 yds with each rifle. I do a lot of plinking with my pistol, and burn through approx 5K rounds every 6 months, I shoot that one instinctively, and am not sure that I really use the sights on it, I just know where it will hit at what range through muscle memory. If all of your preferred guns should shoot like that, you can get away with a smaller gun.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Just for the record, I have hunted extensively with several .375 H&H Mags over the last 25 years. I have also owned and hunted with the .458 Winchester. Not to mention several of the smaller magnums in 270, 7mm and 30 cal.

I just don't find them necessary for a careful hunter...and probably less effective for the average guy/gal who does not practice, due to their inability to shoot them well.




Tim


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

RonM said:


> A .308 is /was/always will be/ my choice of caliber ,it will work on anything in the lower 48,less recoil, cheaper ammo, fun to shoot....I take a 30-30 when I go out of state just for a backup.No oversized stuff for me..........308 Win Model 88, my fav.


I just acquired a Winchester Model 88 in 308 and can't wait to try it out.... Stopped in at wally world last night to pick up some ammo for it... Unreal.. they still have nothing in stock... I grabbed their last box of .357 since I also just got a Security Six and had no ammo... 

Kinda funny in ways... people are saying buy a gun that uses common ammo... you can't hardly find common ammo any more, but they sure has stacks of 7mm stuff...


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## Lilith (Dec 29, 2012)

simi-steading said:


> people are saying buy a gun that uses common ammo... you can't hardly find common ammo any more, but they sure has stacks of 7mm stuff...


This is why when I obtain a new gun, I obtain the reloading dies for it as well. I also grab any dies I see at a good price, no matter if I have that gun or not. I used to have a .257 Roberts ackley improved, and bought the gun with both improved and not improved dies. I have since shot the barrel out and am not able to replace it at this time but I still kept the dies and brass with the good parts of the gun (a mouser action and chimney trigger is hard to pass up over a blown barrel). I have run across several people who have the .257 improved, but can't get ammunition for it. You wouldn't believe the offers I have had for the brass and dies for that gun.... it has made giving up on my wildcat very tempting!


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

JJ Grandits said:


> My issue is with the statement about scaring poachers off the property. .308 or .300 win mag? Why not an RPG? Here in New York scaring people might get you locked up for a lot of years.


You need to move out of NY.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

Chuck R. said:


> Iâll weigh in on the Magnum VS standard cartridges one more time with a plus for the magnum side.
> 
> As I posted earlier yes, the .308, .270 and others are perfectly capable of killing an elk presented a good shot. What a lot of folks donât discuss is that thereâs a good chance you wonât be presented a âgoodâ shot. Elk hunting on public hunted land is tough, thereâs generally lots of competition and well spooked animals. Success rates are generally low, somewhere around 25% last time I checked. Iâve been on public land elk hunts where my only âlegalâ elk seen was a fleeting quartering shot. That was it for 12 days of hard hunting. Three point or better tags really limit your opportunities ( I support them, but watching a heard pass by and only counting cows and spike sort of sucks). For example a lot of Native Americans kill big game with calibers that we think are ridiculous for the application, but theyâre often not bound by the same constraints such as limited seasons.
> 
> ...


If you cannot safely take down an animal with proper shot placement you need to stop hunting and practice more. This is like saying if I cannot hit a 10" kill zone with a 300 win mag I should upgrade to a grenade.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

wannabechef said:


> If you cannot safely take down an animal with proper shot placement you need to stop hunting and practice more. This is like saying if I cannot hit a 10" kill zone with a 300 win mag I should upgrade to a grenade.


No, it&#8217;s more like saying a .308 doesn&#8217;t have the penetration or trajectory that a .300 WIN has with the same bullet weight. Period. 

It&#8217;s not about hitting a 10&#8221; kill zone, it&#8217;s about hitting the vitals when you don&#8217;t get that clear 10&#8221; kill zone shot. I don&#8217;t know about you, but I often have to take a shot on a less than perfect presentation, or go home empty handed. IMHO there&#8217;s nothing immoral about it, IF you&#8217;re capable of making the shot with a caliber/bullet combination capable of achieving the desired result. 

Maybe it&#8217;s just me, but I&#8217;ve had a terrible time getting elk on public land to stand still for a broadside shot.

Chuck


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## Lilith (Dec 29, 2012)

Elk standing still :hysterical: ....on public lands or Private property

However, Elk do have more than one kill shot, and unless they plainly show you their tail. Which in that case, you are probably already SOL. I know of many many Elk taken in archery hunts. If you can shoot an elk with a bow, you should be able shoot an elk with just about any gun with enough knock down power. Now, knock down power is subjective.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

I'm comfortable enough with my 308 to make head shots and can shoot it all day long without hurting my shoulder.

Not a huge difference between the 308 and 300 mag at 500 yards. I've shot pie plates at 550 yards with my 308 and I would not consider shooting an animal with any gun past that range.

Nobody mentioned that a close ranges the damage a magnum does to flesh is amazing...downright wasteful.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

wannabechef said:


> I'm comfortable enough with my 308 to make head shots and can shoot it all day long without hurting my shoulder.
> 
> Not a huge difference between the 308 and 300 mag at 500 yards. I've shot pie plates at 550 yards with my 308 and I would not consider shooting an animal with any gun past that range.
> 
> Nobody mentioned that a close ranges the damage a magnum does to flesh is amazing...downright wasteful.


When I had magnumitis, I shot a young deer with my 7mm rem mag. After getting 12 lbs. of meat off it, I sorta decided to slow things down..

I hear you on the distance. It is a hunting style issue too, hey? I mean, the last time I shot game of any kind over 100 yards, was uhmm hmmm, actually probably a decade ago now. It depends how you hunt. As far as elk standing still, depends how far back you get into the habitat. I see a lot of elk standing still. Near roads and trails, no, but back in their home range, sure...

One of my pet peaves is the hunting shows, and the articles of late, teaching "long range shooting". I mean they are using guns worth 4 digits, topped with scopes worth 4 digits, and shooting elk out at 900 yards. I think there are WAY too many factors in play to make this anything like ethical. I never hear of the near misses, the maimed animals, the ham shots, the gut shots. Course they wouldn't show that on the shows, or in the articles, they just show the good shots. 

My answer to them is get out and hunt. By hunt I mean get off yer grits, walk, and get close enough to game to be dang sure you put him in the freezer.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

wannabechef said:


> I'm comfortable enough with my 308 to make head shots and can shoot it all day long without hurting my shoulder.
> 
> Not a huge difference between the 308 and 300 mag at 500 yards. I've shot pie plates at 550 yards with my 308 and I would not consider shooting an animal with any gun past that range.
> 
> Nobody mentioned that a close ranges the damage a magnum does to flesh is amazing...downright wasteful.


Properly constructed bullet (Bonded etc.), I doubt youâd notice much of a difference, seriously. The better bullets don't fragment up close. 

Using your 500 yard shot as an example, with a similar 180 grain bullet and a 200 yard zero:

.308Win -68â Drop 1028 Ft. Pounds energy
.300Win -38.7 Drop 1762 Ft. pounds Energy

29" difference, roughly twice the kill zone. 

I have absolutely no doubt the .308Win is accurate enough and has enough energy to drop an Elk at 500 yards, the issue gets to be IF your range estimation is slightly off. 

The .300 is flatter and gives you more of a margin of error in your range estimation. This is the one area that the magnums do excel in, of course itâs at the cost of more expensive ammo and more recoil, but in this case almost 50% less drop out to 500 yards and over half more energy. 

REM Ballistics tables:

http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-resources/ballistics.aspx

I shoot a lot, used to hold a master class rating at NRA Silhouette, and competed at NRA mid-range and 800, 900, 1000 yards, still practice out to 500 meters and I donât attempt head shots. For me at least thereâs too many variables, too easy to miss the spine or brain pan. 

Chuck


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