# I am sick with rage.



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Right, so-- I posted this in the "selfish vent" thread (way to go by the way SisterPine for changing your lot.)



> I am having a similar situation with my sister-- she's not working, she's not trying very hard to work, I only asked for an hour of work to equal 2$ a day her electricity costs me. (Just realized she blew it off yesterday so took a moment to unplug her cord.)
> 
> She spends just about every waking moment in bed.
> 
> ...


So--this all came to a dramatic head today-- probably because I finally got a handle on the new place and the farm workload. Oh no... I don't get to be "bored". If I'm not overwhelmed I need more piled on. 

Our internet went down this morning, and there was a call to the internet service provider. Not sure if they called us or we called them, but our net was shut off because there was a "torrent" program running on our network. A torrent is file sharing software for anyone not aware-- it's usually used to trade music, software and videos that are copyrighted, so it's frowned upon. 

Well... I don't do that and neither does dh. So we are thinking, omg-- we have a virus using our ISP in Bulgaria or something---
I remember that my sister had set up an old computer in her closet to skim our internet before. So since it's a safe bet she would still be asleep at 10 am, I decided to go over to the trailer she's staying in, check her power bar and see what I found plugged in. 

Well, I found a cord--- but not the one I expected. She leaps out of her bed to stop me, but I ask: "Is this a laptop cord???" I look, and there lies hidden in her covers my husband's school laptop that went missing months ago. 
The laptop she tore her room apart inch by inch in the midst of a sobbing, crying tizzy-- hurt we would accuse her of taking it before we moved to the farm. Of course we never find it--- turns out she had hidden it, in a suitcase-- in my brothers closet at my mothers' house (wow, which I totally said she could have done at the time it went missing-- "maybe you hid it at mom's house?")
Then when we finished the move she got it back. 
She obviously had every intention of keeping it as she had deleted all my DH's school files. All his user profile, and had changed the admin account to herself, and put her own password on it. 

When we took it away she had the nerve to ask to say goodbye to her friend first. She tried putting on that sad little abused mouse voice. It didn't work. 

We called the sheriff and filed a police report. Sadly the value of the laptop wasn't high enough to make it a felony and they couldn't haul her away in the back seat for a misdemeanor. 

You're darn skippy I pressed charges. She'll get her day in court and if she doesn't show for that she'll have a warrant. 
The kicker is that now I am stuck with her until a court ordered eviction finishes in 30 days. 
I warned her to stay out of my house and told her I didn't want to speak to her ever again unless she was on the making amends step of the twelve step program. 

Guess I'll add her to the list of crappy family members I don't talk to. 

What really frosts me is all the times I defended her, all the heartfelt advice I gave her, all the encouragement.... and she was stealing from me while I fed her, housed her, let her use my kitchen and laundry and personal computer to look for work or drove her to make inquiries. 

All I ever asked was that she go to her therapy, take her meds, and get ANY KIND of job and she wouldn't even do that. 


Like I said. I feel sick over the whole thing. Hope she blows off court and flees the state. I feel completely taken advantage of taking food and utility money out of my kid's mouths for her worthless behind--- DH doing school and work full time to get his family above the poverty line... me working on the farm and house and kids on my own to fix up the fixer property on my own... while she slept the day away and chatted and looked at pornography all night on our stolen property while stealing internet every single day. Carefully calculating how many days and ways she could pretend to be hurt and sick and not have to be put upon to participate.

This is one incident of forgiveness I think I will struggle with LONG and hard.


----------



## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

Wow! I am sorry. That really stinks. You are doing the right thing, though. You are showing her the best kind of love, because it no longer enables her, and gives her a boundary. You are also taking this stress and dysfunction away from your family and that is a HUGE gift to them as well. Stay strong, sometimes we have to hurt to help. 
God bless you and yours
Deb


----------



## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Just wow, DB.
I am so sorry.
No advice, just warm comforting, calming and healing vibes headed out your way.


----------



## SunsetSonata (Nov 23, 2006)

So sorry to hear. But glad you're not taking it - family or not. Family is not supposed to steal and take advantage - that's not what love is about. Here you gave so much of yourself, what a slap in the face. 

So glad she was caught red-handed. All you can do is exactly all you're doing now. So sorry that your sister makes such rotten, selfish choices. May she reap what she sows.


----------



## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

Bless your heart! I can really relate and have run into similar things in the past with a step kid- adult that I had to evict. I know how hard it is but I also know how good it feels to know you actually finally helped someone toward a better life! So hang the heck in there! sis


----------



## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

DB, Sorry it's come to this, but you can't let her take advantage of you and steal from your family. I have a similar family member, although she isn't living with me any longer. It breaks my heart to know she is making her bad decisions with a broken brain, one that isn't wired correctly, but she won't take her meds to help herself make good decisions. You have to draw the line somewhere. Good luck!


----------



## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

That's awful, I'm so sorry...but now you know and she can't take advantage of you anymore.


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

My only regret is that I was too infuriated to act with my regular level of dignity. I was so beside myself I cussed at her A LOT in the process. 

When I left the room to get a handle on myself she squeaked out "help me" to my husband-- trying to get him to "save her from me". The gall. If she thought *I* yelled loud-- I think some of you folks in the midwest might have felt the vibrations when he really got going. Bad gamble to entreat the person who's property you stole to feel sorry for you getting chewed out. 
I will not miss the manipulation games she learned by practicing on mom one bit.


----------



## homefire2007 (Sep 21, 2007)

DB, I can't imagine the depth of betrayal you and your DH must be feeling. I can tell you there are family members I haven't seen or spoken to in six years....best thing I ever did. You are doing the right thing. She is not your problem anymore!!! ((( Big Hugs))) sent your way. You gave it your best shot and more...don't look back.


----------



## TJN66 (Aug 29, 2004)

I'm sorry you are going thru this. I have a sister in law that I have nothing to do with for these same exact reasons. Her own brother wants nothing to do with her either. Now with Mom and Dad gone...I dont have to be nice to her nor put up with her crud.


----------



## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

I was just going to start a new thread about "how hard is your family" but it really fits here. Training ones self and family is so very hard...especially when you are all adults and you find yourself still taking care of other adults. Got an email from moms caretaker today asking if I had some more money I could send her as sis still owes 685.00 on the October care bill. I know care taker has bills to pay (reminding myself- this is not my problem, I did not create it and I cannot fix it). I sent back that I was taking over nov 1 and would sign a new contract. But if she wanted me to bring mom to my house I would understand but I will not bail out my older sister. Then I sat and cried a while before writing this note. Everyone who is dealing with this type of issue is in my prayers tonight. sis


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

sisterpine said:


> I was just going to start a new thread about "how hard is your family" but it really fits here. Training ones self and family is so very hard...especially when you are all adults and you find yourself still taking care of other adults. Got an email from moms caretaker today asking if I had some more money I could send her as sis still owes 685.00 on the October care bill. I know care taker has bills to pay (reminding myself- this is not my problem, I did not create it and I cannot fix it). I sent back that I was taking over nov 1 and would sign a new contract. But if she wanted me to bring mom to my house I would understand but I will not bail out my older sister. Then I sat and cried a while before writing this note. Everyone who is dealing with this type of issue is in my prayers tonight. sis


Hugs going out to you and prayers going back. This is hard stuff, but I saw something great come out of my sister's last eff up, so I've got to believe that we will see beauty from these ashes.


----------



## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

I have a daughter that is about the same way. I was often ashamed at my own behavior in dealing with her. Anger and frustration do not become me. I have since cut her out of my life. Deceit, manipulation. lies, sneakiness, addiction, mental illness. There will be mandatroy counseling, rehab and drug screens, and some kind of medication before our relationship will ever be started again. It has been over a year.It seems so unmotherly to do this, but there seems to be no other options left. Do what you have to do. Seems to me you haven't any other options either.


----------



## luvzmybabz (Sep 8, 2008)

I feel for you and feel your pain. I have a similair sister that has things of mine that while they are not worth a lot of money, the pain isvfor sympathy reasons ( items belonging to my deceased daughter, which the sister still has and refeuses to return to me) This is among many many other ugly hateful nasty things she has done to myself and others. I will never forgive her. It is bad when strangers or friends steal from you but when it is family it is crushing no matter the feelings you have for them. I will say this I have a number of family members that have no interaction with me or my children as I do not want a) the drama b) the lies c) my children being hurt to get to me. It took years in therapy to set these boundries. But they make my emotional health so much better.


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Well folks, I guess we now know why "shunning" was invented <_< There's a lot of raw kin inflicted pain going around.


----------



## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

I have always said, you cana pick your friends....but your family you're stuck with.

What a sucky situation to be in - sending hugs and healing for you. Just go on and it is what it is. You've tried to help her - she hasn't stepped up to the plate and done her part. You can't do any more but heal yourself.....


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Dusky Beauty said:


> Well folks, I guess we now know why "shunning" was invented <_< There's a lot of raw kin inflicted pain going around.


I have not talked to my brother in 8 years (my fault). I miss him.
I have not talked to my parents in 6. It sucks, but I do not miss the abuse.
I have not talked to MIL in 13 years. I do not miss her one bit. I understand why she is the way she is.....but I do not miss her manipulation and maliciousness.
I have not talked to BIL and his wife in 7 years. I do not miss their manipulations and user ways.
I have one cousin, she lives in TX. I face book w her a tiny bit.
I have one aunt, I love, and email w often.

Do I get lonely? Yeah, but then I remember "OH THAT'S RIGHT those people crapped on me all the time".......
Then I hug my kids and my dogs, and thank God for them.

I don't need toxicity in my life.
I have enough on my plate as it is I do not want extra helpings.


----------



## Grandmotherbear (May 15, 2002)

<<<<Dusky Beauty>>>> hugs


----------



## Use Less (Nov 8, 2007)

You have to know what you can tolerate and what you can't, and live by that. Your sister is SO over the top mean-spirited and self-serving. There's one sister I don't want to be around. Just one too many screaming, abusive blow-ups (at me) to relieve anxiety and anger (hers.) Lock up everything you can. If you can't stay home, who can stay there that you can REALLY trust? I see her trying to take whatever she can if you're not protecting your place, or doing serious damage. Breathe deep and try to rest.


----------



## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

I did not read the replies.
If you mom feels sorry for her why is she at your place and mot mom's?


----------



## sandsuncritters (Nov 18, 2011)

((((((((HUGS)))))) to you both Dusky Beauty and Sisterpine
I feel your pain, truly I know firsthand how it feels to be betrayed by your own blood 

DB, when you filed the police report you should have also gotten a restraining order. She may live in a trailer on family property, but your own personal home, vehicles, children, etc would be governed by the RO. That way, the second she crosses that line ( and she will) call the authorities and have her arrested. If she puts up a fight be sure and notify them she is " off her meds". There's a good chance she will be Baker Acted and your eviction notice will time out before she's released. Be sure to renew the RO and keep the authorities apprised of her status, because at this point at least she is a clear and present danger to your family and property.

Also, upgrade your security to include solar motion sensor lights mounted at all 4 corners of your house and your barn. A decent surveillance system can also be had for around $200, and can give you evidence for the police if necessary. It's worth every penny because your family's safety is paramount. A dog is an excellent warning device.

Be safe, be vigilant, be prepared for her to do the unthinkable! People like her have no moral boundaries and no inhibitions. This may take years to resolve so your mindset is very important. Experience calls me to tell you these things.

Keeping you in prayer for safety and wellbeing.

In His Love
Mich


----------



## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

"Help me."

REALLY?! 

You've done the right thing. I'm sorry it had to come to this.


----------



## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

RESTRAINGING ORDER!
Perhaps with the theft on record you can get a restraing order to keep her 1280 feet from your house?


----------



## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

HUGS! Dusky Beauty and Sisterpine. As an only child I don't have to deal with such messes, but having grown up in a home that took in emotionally disturbed foster kids....I have a good idea what you are going through. Pat yourself on the back for being willing to stand up for your own mental health!!


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

Use Less said:


> You have to know what you can tolerate and what you can't, and live by that. Your sister is SO over the top mean-spirited and self-serving. There's one sister I don't want to be around. Just one too many screaming, abusive blow-ups (at me) to relieve anxiety and anger (hers.) Lock up everything you can. If you can't stay home, who can stay there that you can REALLY trust? I see her trying to take whatever she can if you're not protecting your place, or doing serious damage. Breathe deep and try to rest.


That is exactly why I replaced all of the locks yesterday.


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

sandsuncritters said:


> ((((((((HUGS)))))) to you both Dusky Beauty and Sisterpine
> I feel your pain, truly I know firsthand how it feels to be betrayed by your own blood
> 
> DB, when you filed the police report you should have also gotten a restraining order. She may live in a trailer on family property, but your own personal home, vehicles, children, etc would be governed by the RO. That way, the second she crosses that line ( and she will) call the authorities and have her arrested. If she puts up a fight be sure and notify them she is " off her meds". There's a good chance she will be Baker Acted and your eviction notice will time out before she's released. Be sure to renew the RO and keep the authorities apprised of her status, because at this point at least she is a clear and present danger to your family and property.
> ...


The officer gave her a trespass warning yesterday. If she sets foot on, in, or near my house, she is going to be arrested.


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Lazaryss said:


> The officer gave her a trespass warning yesterday. If she sets foot on, in, or near my house, she is going to be arrested.


Yeah, we didn't have the lock up yet so after the officer left, I locked all but one door and took my kids with me to go milk to poor cow that had waited an hour longer than she should have, so while I was in the middle of milking out by the barn she skulked in through my open door to my kitchen, helped herself to some food. I was coming back when I saw her leaving and yelled across the yard "what are you doing in there?"

"Getting breakfast."

keep in mind this is at about 1:30 pm by now. 

Thankfully the officer had to come back for something and I was able to report this, so he kindly served her a trespass notice for me. His comment was: "Guess she's not all that sorry." I don't think she got her victim complex across to him, he sure wasn't impressed by her. 

We got into the laptop and went through some of her emails making sure she didn't have anything illegal on the machine that would come back on us. 

She is clearly in a realm of delusional I didn't expect. She talks openly of manipulating the family-- in her words "sweet talk, smooth things over magic". 
She whines to her friends that we are crazy and have "more mood swings than her". Funny how if you dodge work and don't see a person for 16 hours or two days they are in a different mood the next time you talk to them!

She complained about how her "overbearing brother in law" accused her of stealing the missing laptop.... ironically this message currying sympathy from her enablers was sent FROM the MISSING LAPTOP in her possession.

We explained the situation (In much more generous loving terms than we wanted to...) to one of the adults in her chat community so they can explain why she's not around and minimize the damage to the innocent people in her online circle.


----------



## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Wow!!


----------



## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

DB You are doing the very best thing for your sister and even more importantly you are doing the very best thing for your family. I did not realize you live so close to me...maybe your sister can come and live with my sister and share the rent there LOL. Or maybe she would like my 56 year old drug addicted/mentally ill brother that I do not have contact with...he even has an ex wife who will be the enabler if needed!

I know this is not funny, but I can't cry all the time. I am going to develop a mantra to say over and over again about how I am doing the right thing in taking care of myself and my family whom I do feel some responsibility for (just because they are family).

I decided I would no longer hide my thoughts and feelings when they ask about doing something that I think is wrong or dumb or idiotic. I will learn to say "I told you so" etc. We are so blessed that we can continue to learn and evolve throughout our entire lives, cause we sure need too! God Bless.


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

We are serving her an eviction notice today. If she doesn't leave, we are taking her to court and having a constable forcibly remove her.


----------



## sandsuncritters (Nov 18, 2011)

OKayyyy!! Now I'm a little confused. Who is Lazaryss?

DuskyBeauty, is Lazaryss your husband and he posts here also? Or your sister, or your alter ego?

Seriously, I'm more than a little bit weirded out here  

In His Love
Mich


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Lol sorry for the confusion Mich, Laz is my husband and has his own account, I just post more often.


----------



## sandsuncritters (Nov 18, 2011)

LOL, glad you cleared that up for me, thank you . I wish both of you all the best. Please do remember the security suggestions, and the restraining order.

I will keep your family in prayer for safety.

In His Love
Mich


----------



## shannsmom (Jul 28, 2009)

Thank you, I was confused as well lol! You both have my sympathies for having to go thru this, what a slap in the face after you were helping her so much! I hope it all goes as smoothly as possible.


----------



## I_don't_know (Sep 28, 2012)

I have been through it all, a knife at my throat when I was five, a forced marriage, 3 rapes, 2 assaults, both in front of witnesses, and my only means of transportation stolen, the policefarce always told me there was nothing they could do. They turned the old man with the knife lose 3 days later. He would wave to me with the knife he held at my trout. 
When someone hurts you the only thing you can do is to ask God to give you the courage to forgive them. Don&#8217;t confuse this with taking them back or forgetting about it. You are doing the right thing, but being mad at them does nothing but eat up your insides. 
Then you must see the pain as a stone in your sole. Every time you tell someone about what has happened and how you hurt it is like chipping off a little piece of that stone and giving it to them. Your stone is a little smaller, the ache a little less. It takes time but you can chip the stone down to the point that is only a little chip itself. You don&#8217;t even notice it most of the time. 
Life is better without pain and you are the one that controls the pain you feel. (How do you think those guys walk on those hot coals or sleep on those nails?) 
You are in my prayers.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

DB,

Eliminate the poison from your system (toxic folks in your life).
Once you have done that.....exhale.

Release any anger and rage you feel towards that person and what they have done.
You can totally forgive someone one.....totally, and it brings peace to your insides.
Forgive does not mean roll out the 'feel free to do it again' matt.

Bitterness anger and rage only destroys you.....
Release it!!

I am so sorry you are going through this!


----------



## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

It's a rough road, but the sooner the better. My sister is this girl's twin. She was bent on destruction from the day she became a teen, and has left a tornado sized path. She literally killed my mom and step dad. They spent nearly three decades coddling her, and playing to her victim and entitlement delusions as she layed around and did nothing 24/7, or went to jail for multiple DWIs, including a fatality. Both of them passed decades before their parents did. In the end the stress finished them off, before they got a chance to retire. Sis is now 44 Y.O and a total welfare queen. She ended up with 300K in a special needs trust for disabled adults as her inheritance, and you and I pay for her every need, thanks to SSI and medicade. Toxicity has the same effect on you, no matter the source. Doesn't matter if you are drinking from a drum of rat poison, or being slowly destroyed by toxic relatives, the end result is the same. Good luck


----------



## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Any updates?

I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this.


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Well, she is essentially under defacto house arrest because the only places she is allowed to be on my lot is in her singlewide or my driveway. 
Laz and I checked into what a legal eviction process will cost and the total bill comes out to about $300 in fees. 

If we pay that, there is no Christmas for the children this year. When we broke the news to my mom she became livid. She's planning on dropping the brat off at the homeless shelter with 20$ in her pocket. 

My mother tried to drag her over to my stoop to apologize to us, and she gave a very tearful apology before we cut her off. Then she stopped and said "you're right I don't mean it. I don't feel like apologizing because I don't feel anything inside that says I should."

So she sits in that trailer until she gets dropped off at the pound or she runs out of ramen basically. I still have to "provide" power by continuing to leave her extension cord plugged into my window, and "provide" water via the garden hose she took and stuck through her bathroom window. Considering that the hose is still on the ground from watering goats for 2 days I guess she's just not flushing the toilet anymore. Goody.


----------



## Wildfire_Jewel (Nov 5, 2006)

How old are your kid's?? I say get the bumm OFF your property even if it means a very slim Christmas. Christmas gifts are not worth the headache she is giving you!


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

kids are 9, 6 and 2. It would be very difficult indeed to explain to the 6 year old why she didn't get the toy she wanted all year, even if the 9 year old is mature enough to accept the explaination and the 2 year old is too little to know the difference. Christmas is a very big deal here. We don't buy toys or extras at random and the rugrats wait literally ALL YEAR for birthday or Christmas to get anything new. It would be really really sad if my worthless sibling cost them that too.

She should go with my mom BEFORE 30 days are up and the high costs thank goodness. The constable wouldn't do anything different in the end than dropping her off at the nearest shelter.


----------



## Laura (May 10, 2002)

Sell the trailer.


----------



## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Very sad to hear about your situation.

I want to expand on forgiveness. It is for your benefit, not the offender. It releases you from the burden of expecting the offender to 'make things right'.

Also, forgiveness DOES NOT mean reconciliation. That can only possibly happen after repentance by the offender, and is not a given.


----------



## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

I must agree about the forgiveness being for you not your sister. Carrying anger and shame for someone else is a heavy load. I do not like what my sister has been doing, I can understand what and why she supposedly did it but that does not make it right. I will always love her and someday I may like her again. In the meantime I will not let her fill my head with bad thoughts and feelings. I forgive her and pray for her and move forward while having learned my lesson well.


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Wow she seriously sounds like a psychopath. Do you think there's a possibility she might try to hurt someone to pay you back for kicking her out? Change all the locks after she leaves for sure.

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this.


----------



## Stiffchick (Jul 18, 2012)

I am so sorry about this. I have an uncle that is putting my family through the same thing. he would send my terminalily ill grandmother out to get him movies, cigarettes, booze and fast food. (to many DWI's to drive himself, not that he wouldnt do it IF someone would have given him a car.) and she did it. its sad, Now my mom fills in for what grandma left void when she died. 

My point is, Im sorry you are going through this, and as you can see, you are not alone. So its nice to have a place to come and talk about it. I also agree with the forgivness. 










"holding on to anger, is like drinking poision and expecting the other person to die" -Buddha


----------



## farmhome5 (Dec 20, 2005)

Sounds to me like you have a very dangerous person that "doesn't feel" things living next door to your 3 small children. The best gift you could give them for Christmas is a safe place to live. Your sister doesn't have anything to lose and she doesn't "feel" things like a normal healthy person.
I'm sorry you have to go through this, sending good thoughts and prayers your way!


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

farmhome5 said:


> Sounds to me like you have a very dangerous person that "doesn't feel" things living next door to your 3 small children. The best gift you could give them for Christmas is a safe place to live. Your sister doesn't have anything to lose and she doesn't "feel" things like a normal healthy person.
> I'm sorry you have to go through this, sending good thoughts and prayers your way!


Thankfully, she is also a coward and afraid of me for some nonsensical reason. I'm just 10 years older, don't let her get away with crap and I yell a lot when she pushes me. :shrug:

Also the locks are already changed. 

Seems like she's trying to put the manipulation into play on my mom down the street. She spent all day in their front yard waiting for them to come home and apologized to them right when they got out of the car. I told them to watch their electronics if they feed it.


----------



## Kwings (Dec 21, 2010)

&#8220;The only way out of the labyrinth of suffering is to forgive.&#8221; &#8213; John Green, Looking for Alaska

I'm sorry about your situation. I hope things get better for you all. I'm an only child bu ti did just get rid of a bunch of toxic and childish friends and my life is so so so much better for it.


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Have you seen this? It sort of looks like you can evict her yourself. Maybe.Guidelines for Pennsylvania Residential Eviction


----------



## JanO (Jun 17, 2003)

Under the circumstances, why do you have to bother with an eviction process at all? You served her with her 30 day notice to vacate. As long as you don't have a rental agreement anything she trys to do would be considered a domestic issue. If she doesn't leave, throw her sorry butt out at the end of the 30th day and be done with it. She's not paying rent, she's stolen from you, and you have a police report to show it. So, if you toss her out, what is she going to do? Sue you?


----------



## luvzmybabz (Sep 8, 2008)

Do you have a court date for the theft? it would be much easier, for the eviction if during that court she caused a scene which from what you are saying is a good chance of happening.


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

Terri said:


> Have you seen this? It sort of looks like you can evict her yourself. Maybe.Guidelines for Pennsylvania Residential Eviction


I appreciate the thought, but we are in Arizona.


----------



## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

Sent you an email. After the email, it occurred to me that you may have an "out" here:

Arizona Immediate Eviction for Criminal Activity - Keyt Law Office Store

The cop found her in your house, right? Plus she stole from you? Can she be charged with burglary (for taking the food after being ordered out of the house -- you did tell her in front of the cop to get out and stay out, correct?) in addition to the laptop? That way, you could have her immediately evicted. If she's doing any illegal substances, you can have her evicted immediately as well. 

I have zero tolerance for users ... yeesh.


----------



## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

Hmm, better link. 

http://www.keytlaw.com/azlandlordtenantlaw/immediate-eviction/

You can also have her immediately evicted for damage to the property. You did imply she wasn't flushing the toilets, right? What's the general level of filth in the place? At a certain point, dirt crosses over to damage.

(You may be able to find a cheaper lawyer, or file yourself -- there's usually good books for this in the library. I'm just linking to this lawyer's site because he's nice and clear.)


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

There is also the problem of cost. We are trying to do this without having to deal with court and processing fees. If it comes to it we will have to do that, but we don't have a few hundred laying around to be used for this.


----------



## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

I think you can have the police remove her for criminal behavior,,,I have seen it done in Colorado and Arizona..she has committed several crimes in a very short period of time..stealing food from your house should do it.


----------



## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Can you just wait until she leaves the house again? Then put all of her stuff out on the curb and change the locks?


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Dusky Beauty said:


> This is one incident of forgiveness I think I will struggle with LONG and hard.


Yeppers.... I can see where it might take a very long time for her to forgive you.


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I've had situations to deal with that hurt and angered me tremendously, but one thing I have learned in getting through those issues is that anger is not necessarily a bad thing. 

Anger can be used to build a barrier against the inclination which many people seem to have, especially women, to think that they should 'help' the unfortunate person who has already taken advantage of them. Whether it is children, siblings or a spouse, they can use guilt very successfully in some cases and firm, righteous anger can be very useful in supporting the "NO MORE" you need to stick with.

I've never been one to believe forgiveness was necessary. Letting go of bitterness so it doesn't turn inward, yes ... forgiving the other person, not so much.


----------



## Chief Cook (Apr 24, 2011)

So very sorry that you and your family is going through this. I hope that everything works out for you and yours. ((((Hugs))))


----------



## Katskitten (Aug 5, 2010)

Dusky Beauty said:


> We got into the laptop and went through some of her emails making sure she didn't have anything illegal on the machine that would come back on us.
> We explained the situation (In much more generous loving terms than we wanted to...) to one of the adults in her chat community so they can explain why she's not around and minimize the damage to the innocent people in her online circle.


Ok, From what I have read here I see some things that I feel you should address. 
One: keep those email addresses of her so called friends. Even if you just put them on a thumb drive and put it up. You may need them later.
Two: Do NOT minimize the damage. Let the chips fall where they are going to fall. She needs to have that fallout fall right squarely on her and that is what will happen. Those in her chat area need to know just what she had pulled. Otherwise she is likely to move in on one of them and they would or could come back at you.
From what I see she is a class act and will take advantage of anyone she can. That includes anyone in her online friends.
Been there in a different way, many years ago, but I understand your situation.
Elaine


----------



## DebM (Dec 6, 2005)

Just wanted to say {{{hugs}}}

Also wanted to say this is the very best description I have ever read, and I have read a lot about the subject over the years. Thanks to the poster for sharing the words:

>I want to expand on forgiveness. It is for your benefit, not the offender. It releases you from the burden of expecting the offender to 'make things right'.
Also, forgiveness DOES NOT mean reconciliation. That can only possibly happen after repentance by the offender, and is not a given.


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

What Katskitten said!

I have a teen who only learns if he trips and falls. So, I did NOT try to get him out of trouble at school: it would have meant that he did not learn from things. He would have done whatever it was again and again and again.

So, he got his bad grades, served his detentions, and after a while he straightened up a little.

If you help your sister minimize the damage, she will not learn to not steal from you.


----------



## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Please make sure that nothing YOU did is illegal, such as bursting into her home, reading her personal emails, telling people online what she did, etc.

Yes she stole the laptop, but laws are funny sometimes, and those things make me a little uncomfortable.


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

Thankfully Shy, the house has always had an open door policy. There was no reason for her to expect we would not enter the house. Her email was left unlocked and we had to be sure there was nothing illegal happening on the laptop. Explaining what she did is perfectly fine and would not fall under slander or libel because it is all true.


----------



## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

Next time she leaves the trailer and your property unplug the power and turn off the water. If someone complains...just say...I'm sorry but she moved out so I undid it and I did not give her permission to move back in so she is tresspassing!


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Mini update--
Bratty princess's powers of crybaby are strong. My mom actually called and asked me to drop the charges. 
LOLOLOLOL, NO?!?!?!?!?!

She is trying to get the stinker into job corps and they just found out her application is "on hold" until the case is settled. 

Gee, I dunno. Go to the courthouse and settle it by pleading guilty??

No way in hell I am letting her off of her well earned set of consequences. 

Oh but, "If I want her out fast, this will get her in the program quicker"

Uh... yeah. My bottle of give a crap is empty.

It makes no difference to me if she goes to a job corps dorm or an overpass. Earning my ire was a bad idea. My grudge fuse burns _long and hot_


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Tough love is the way to go, so glad you are on it, and not backing down! I raised my kids using the principals, and even had to send my 16 yr old DS off to his DF's. He came back 7 months later, CHANGED, said it was the best thing I could have done. Today, I have great relationships with both children. I hope your sis straightens up and really changes. So sorry you are going thru this!


----------



## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

*hugs*

The Jobs Corp COULD be a good opportunity to (1) get her out of your hair and (2) possibly turn her into a productive human being. 

What about offering her a choice? You'll drop the charges if she makes restitution, starting tomorrow and finished before her court date. Then give her a list of unpleasant but necessary chores -- and she has to have them done correctly. They do not need to be pleasant chores. Got manure and a wheelbarrow?

This ... may very well not work, she may flake/refuse/whine and cry. And it doesn't have to mean you forgive her or trust her -- but either you end up with some work done, or you don't, and if you don't, your parents can't say you didn't try. And if she does bust her butt and do the work, then at least she's being held accountable in the form of blisters and sore muscles, yes?

... Such a shame it's supposed to cool off this weekend.


----------



## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

But what if she doesn't get into the job corps position? Then she'd have dropped the charges for nothing! I say don't drop them.


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I suspect that your sister has been let off the hook WAAY to often already!


----------



## Katskitten (Aug 5, 2010)

She sounds like she has learned to be a master at manipulating those around her. 
This is one time I agree, DO NOT LET HER OFF. It is just another tactic for her to stall the inevitable. 
That is being on her own and having to pay her own way. 

Elaine


----------



## SunsetSonata (Nov 23, 2006)

Cygnet said:


> What about offering her a choice? You'll drop the charges if she makes restitution, starting tomorrow and finished before her court date. Then give her a list of unpleasant but necessary chores -- and she has to have them done correctly. They do not need to be pleasant chores. Got manure and a wheelbarrow.


I'd say this sister has had a lifetime of blown opportunities already. No more chances. I'd be disappointed if the OP exposed herself to the kind of stress she'd have HOPING for change at this point.


----------



## mrs.H (Mar 6, 2003)

Dusky Beauty said:


> Mini update--
> Bratty princess's powers of crybaby are strong. My mom actually called and asked me to drop the charges.
> LOLOLOLOL, NO?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> ...


Absolutely not!!! If she pulls this off it will be her Opus thus far. She has no intention of going in the job corps. Your sis didn't go look into it herself, she's just riding your moms idea, and hoping your mom convinces you. Stick to your guns. Protect your kids. They brains are sponges, what are they soaking up from this whole thing. This woman has got to go. 

I do encourage you to forgive her. Don't tell her, she will see it as weakness and an opportunity to start working you over again.


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Thanks everyone. Laz and I talked about it last night, and he got to the point that-- yeah... well maybe we SHOULD just get rid of her fast and drop them-- it's not our responsibility to teach her a lesson... 

Then all of you affirmed that we were on the right course not to back down. 


Mrs. H said:


> absolutely not!!! If she pulls this off it will be her Opus thus far. She has no intention of going in the job corps. Your sis didn't go look into it herself, she's just riding your moms idea, and hoping your mom convinces you. Stick to your guns. Protect your kids. They brains are sponges, what are they soaking up from this whole thing. This woman has got to go.
> 
> I do encourage you to forgive her. Don't tell her, she will see it as weakness and an opportunity to start working you over again.


It's like you know the people involved enough to predict their actions! LOL

It's a shame too... we were going to have a nice family thanksgiving, but I'm 90% sure mom is going to invite this pain in my back BEHIND my back so I'm just going to bow out and do a dinner for me laz and the kids and avoid the whole debacle.


----------



## fellini123 (Feb 2, 2003)

Our DS got into the Job Corp. It was a great opportunity. He lasted about 3 or 4 days and got kicked out for bad behavior.
So I agree with everyone else, stick to you guns and dont drop the charges. 
Alice in Virginia


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Dusky Beauty, some of us have had relatives or in-laws who have tried similar antics.... so we feel that we know your sister! LOL!

As for your sister, if your Mom is hosting then she very likely WILL invite your sister! Because that is what Moms tend to do. If you can keep it together at your Mom's place, fine, you can leave if you need to. 

But, if you were thinking of having your Mom and your family at your place, and you think she might invite your sis to your place..... that could get ugly FAST and you would have no way to bow out!


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

When Lazaryss was growing up, all of the family thanksgiving meals had drama--- fights between siblings, people bringing bad blood from old wounds to the table and snarking between the stuffing and gravy-- or people very dramatically and publicly refusing to attend... My only thanksgiving with the in laws was visiting his grandmother in her nursing home and they couldn't even keep it together for the last Thanksgiving she was alive. :flame:

We have a strict zero drama family holiday policy and it's not even worth the risk. 

So while we WERE going to do a cooperative meal at my mother's house... I'll just keep things "chill" and bow to do my own at home and not even give the problem a chance to exist.


----------



## snoozy (May 10, 2002)

There will be other Thanksgivings. Not to worry. Everyone will survive. You just do your own thing and let some water flow under the overpass...


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I agree totally a you don't deserve everything you have been put though and I would wager what you shared is the tip of the ice berg... She has probably put the entire family through a lot of crud!

Good riddance! If she doesn't straighten up her life, it is ALL on her!!!


----------



## mrs.H (Mar 6, 2003)

Dusky Beauty said:


> Thanks everyone. Laz and I talked about it last night, and he got to the point that-- yeah... well maybe we SHOULD just get rid of her fast and drop them-- it's not our responsibility to teach her a lesson...
> 
> Then all of you affirmed that we were on the right course not to back down.
> 
> ...


To read you family story, we very well could be cousins!  My DH and kids are my family. Pretty much "church family" is the rest of my family. We are having DH's folks and a family from church over on Thanks Giving.


----------



## TNnative (May 23, 2004)

Dusky Beauty said:


> Uh... yeah. My bottle of give a crap is empty.


I shouldn't have but I LOL'd at that! :thumb:


----------



## dancingfatcat (Jan 1, 2008)

Boy, she is one great con artist.........sounds like the job corp might just be another set up. Stick to your guns, and see this through. Also, usually the person getting evicted ends up paying your court costs............check it out, could end up costing you nothing! 

Also, you said she is afraid of you...........don't be so sure. Alot of times it's just another front to keep you off guard. I wouldn't trust her, not one itty bitty bit!!!! The ones with no conscience are the dangerous ones!!!


----------



## candyknitter (Apr 23, 2009)

If ur mom really wants you to drop the charges, why not say that if she takes your sister in to live with her TODAY then you will drop them. But don't drop them until your sis is off your property and you have secured it.

Personally I think she deserves to be prosecuted, but if you want her out of your life asap, then this might be an oppertunity to do it. But DON'T drop them while she is still living with you!!


----------



## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

Stories like this make me glad I don't have any family. One thing I'm confused about is why the sister isn't living with your mother since she seems to be always taking up for her? That would solve your problem AND give your sister a chance to straighten herself out under her mother's roof.


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Belfrybat said:


> Stories like this make me glad I don't have any family. One thing I'm confused about is why the sister isn't living with your mother since she seems to be always taking up for her? That would solve your problem AND give your sister a chance to straighten herself out under her mother's roof.


If I remember right their mother dumped the worthless sister on her a while back...


----------



## Bluebird (Feb 1, 2006)

Bottom line is that she has to be responsible for herself, means anyone that enables her to continue her behavior by "helping" is only expanding the time she doesn't have to take that responsiblility to change herself. It's hard hard hard to do. Been there - done that - we were lucky, change happened for the better. Know of others where it didn't but that was the ofenders choice.


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

dancingfatcat said:


> Boy, she is one great con artist.........sounds like the job corp might just be another set up. Stick to your guns, and see this through. Also, usually the person getting evicted ends up paying your court costs............check it out, could end up costing you nothing!
> 
> Also, you said she is afraid of you...........don't be so sure. Alot of times it's just another front to keep you off guard. I wouldn't trust her, not one itty bitty bit!!!! The ones with no conscience are the dangerous ones!!!


The problem is you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip lol.


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

Cliff said:


> If I remember right their mother dumped the worthless sister on her a while back...


It was not really a dumped on us thing. We chose to host her while she would look for a job. I won't dump her on her mother, because her SO does not deserve that. We will see this through to the end though that's for sure.


----------



## PNWest (Mar 15, 2010)

When you have reached the point that the drama must stop, make it stop. Good for the two of you for realizing that your children and each other are your first and foremost obligations. You are the core family unit that has to be protected and nurtured for positive growth.

It is your right, obligation and duty to care for this family in a calm and stable way.

Thank you for providing for the children and each other.


----------



## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

My suggestion was basically, "Give her enough rope to hang herself with," but maybe it didn't come across that way. If mom wants you to drop the charges, fine -- drop the charges after she makes appropriate restitution. She won't do it, of course. Then you can tell your mom you tried, and she didn't make the effort. I'm definitely not suggesting not holding accountable -- but sometimes there are effective ways to hold someone accountable that don't involve the law. 

I've got similar issues with my own family, so yeah, I get it. 

OTOH, nothing wrong with just pressing charges. Might be simpler that way. I don't know how your family dynamics play out. Plus you do have your kids to worry about -- it must be confusing for them, as it is. 

(And I totally get the 'no drama' rule for family gatherings. I couldn't imagine having holidays full of hostility.)


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Question; since she is living in an unsafe environment (the building is open to pests and the elements and has no running water or power of it's own) and she won't leave or clean up after her cat (feces and urine everywhere and trash piling up)....

Could I call adult services on her and have them intervene???


----------



## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

I wouldn't get the authorities involved -- if you called adult services, they could turn around and hold YOU responsible for providing her with a safe environment until she's formally evicted. The laws are funny. If you agreed to let her stay, they may say you're responsible for fixing everything up to code and putting her up in a motel until the mobile home is repaired, or something stupid like that. 

It'd be really bad if a social worker showed up to check on her and she gave them a poor-pitiful-me Cinderella routine and the social worker bought her story and decided to side with her, y'know?


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Well, I have started asking around and it is looking more and more like I do not have to provide water or power because it was never offered as "a rental". So maybe soon we will get to see how she likes being cold and in the dark.


----------



## JanO (Jun 17, 2003)

Shouldn't her 30 days be up soon?


----------



## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

Yeah, as long as you're reasonably assured she won't lie to social services and say, "She said I could stay in the house on her couch, and gave me a laptop, then got mean and told me I had to move out to the mobile home and she won't even let me have a drop cord for power, and there's no toilet, and I can't even use her bathroom, and she's such a meanie. And she gave me the laptop and then she stole it BACK!" 

And then it becomes a he said/she said thing ... y'know what I mean? 

I'd just evict her when the time comes. Keep it simple. But that's me. 

But -- you know her, and know how likely she is to tell a big huge whopper to the authorities and how convincing she can (or can't) be ...


----------



## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

Can't you get another family member to sign her up and BAKER ACT her???! You need 3 signatures....used to be anyhow.....

Put her stuff out and change the locks. Since it isn't a rental, why do you have to evict her? Didn't you give her written notice that the cash cow died and she's not allowed to sponge of you and your hubby any more? I would be at my wit's end dealing with all that DB and I can't say I would be as gracious as you are being! Tell her the time is up and she needs to move now. Today. No more Mrs Nice Girl!

You're in Phoenix, how cold will it get tonight??! Without water might be a bigger concern. Without lights? Will she use candles and burn the place down? You need to end this turmoil.


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

The basic eviction I gave *is* up. But I couldn't afford to file the paperwork with the court which is what you need for a forced removal. I just have too many needs and not enough to go 'round ya know?

I really could use the cash from scrapping the metal in the trailer that she's sitting on to fix up my own house.


----------



## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

Ah. If the time's up, then that's different. Is the money you need for a lawyer, or for court costs? If it's for a lawyer, you may be able to file yourself. It's probably pretty straight forward.


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Court costs... I can sue her for them later but that will take a whole 'nother process and set of it's own court costs. 
If nothing happens and she squats till Jan. I'll spend some of the tax return to get rid of her once and for all, but until then... 

Holding pattern until mama decides to drop her off somewhere.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

When I was a landlord and had to evict a tenant? I bought an Eviction kit at a stationary store with all forms included. It was expensive to file and we saved $ by having the tenant served by DH's DS. We had to evict tenants on two occasions.


----------



## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

Actually, the court may hold her responsible for the costs as soon as you win the judgement -- you may not have to pay. I'd call and ask, I'm not sure if you have to pay up front or if they determine who pays when the case is settled. If you've done this already, I apologize. 

In Arizona, I'm pretty sure that the person who loses a civil case (an eviction order is a civil case) is responsible for the court fees and whatever the deputy charges who kicks her out for you.

The state has ways of getting the money from people who owe; if nothing else, they'd take it out of a tax refund if she ever filed state taxes in the future. 

You may find this useful -- 

http://www.azcourts.gov/portals/20/2008RulesA/R-07-0023FinalRuleOrder.pdf

You have my total sympathies on this -- this has got to be utterly frustrating. 

(I'm not sure I would advise this, or how much trouble it could get you in, but I would be very TEMPTED to wait until she's away from the house one day, and just start dismantling the home. If she objects, well, you thought she moved out. And now the home's gone. It's satisfying to think of, isn't it?)


----------



## nostawmama (Dec 29, 2011)

Cygnet said:


> (I'm not sure I would advise this, or how much trouble it could get you in, but I would be very TEMPTED to wait until she's away from the house one day, and just start dismantling the home. If she objects, well, you thought she moved out. And now the home's gone. It's satisfying to think of, isn't it?)


This was actually my first thought. I don't participate in my family drama- it is really a generation above me anyway- but I feel your pain. DH has a.. um.. crazy (would be a nice way to put it) family full of this mess. We have no contact with them, thank goodness.


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

The fees are assessed all up front  I guess Arizona is trying to make sure it gets paid with all these budget short falls. 


I have certainly thought about slapping a padlock on the door when she leaves one day and insisting I thought she had left. 
She may still "forget" on her court date and spend thanksgiving in jail... who knows?!


----------



## dancingfatcat (Jan 1, 2008)

If she is living on your property, you have to provide water. And I believe you also have to make sure she has a way to have hot water, ie. gas or electric. For sanitation and health reasons regardless if she is renting or not as you gave her permission to be there. And if you do turn it off just 
Be careful, she could turn around and report you and then you'll have an even bigger mess on your hands. I would see if there is maybe a low income place that can file the eviction paper work for you, on a sliding scale. Maybe get a restraining order against her so she can't come into your house and steal again. If she has been living there, she has legal rights to stay there, with or without a rental agreement and you have to go through the right channels to get her moved because you allowed her to stay there. Don't lock her out, again you could be in for more of a problem. Lots of civil rights laws to protect the tenant.
If the time period you gave her is up and she is still there, she is calling your bluff. Maybe you can have the trailer towed away as being abandoned (you may have to put her belonging out for her to collect). Then she would have no place to stay. Check and see if this would be a viable choice, it may solve your problems?


----------



## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

Sell the trailer. Even if it's only for $100.00, get rid of it. Arrange that the new owner pulls it off the land in a certain time frame and let her know she needs to be out by then. I've rented places before that got sold out from under me and since I didn't have a lease, all that was necessary was 30 days notice. No court, lawyers or anything like that. 
Just make sure to put everything in writing.


----------



## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Cliff said:


> If I remember right their mother dumped the worthless sister on her a while back...


Nobody is ever worthless. Humans have inherent value.

To the OP-- this is your sister vs stuff. Which is more important? Which has an eternal soul? Which is family? It's stuff versus a human who is very close to your heart. Stuff pales in comparison when you get right down to the nitty gritty.
Right now you feel betrayed and used. And that is normal. What is hurting you is that she took it from you. She betrayed your trust and your love. And that hurts, which it should. You need time to work through those emotions, so you can see her for the weak human that she is and still love her.
But if you put it in perspective, it's just stuff that she took compared to a relationship with your sister. You still love her. You can always get more stuff, but you cannot get another one of her.
What I did when someone close to me did this to me, was just to confront them, and tell them to consider it was a gift. Because I cared more for them than I did for the "stuff" they took. But I also told them how it made me feel that they betrayed me, and how it hurt.
In the future, definitely keep everything locked away and safe. Realize that she has a problem with theft, and don't let her weakness hurt you or her again. But forgive her. She is worth more than a stupid laptop. You will have a dozen laptops in your lifetime. They are just stuff. But there will always be just one of her. Don't ever let stuff destroy a relationship because there is no comparison in the value of stuff vs a human.


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

mekasmom, I completely disagree with you. This is not a sister vs. stuff situation. This is an issue of addiction and responsibility. If you tell an addict what they did was ok, then how is there ever going to be a change in behaviour? If we were to say, give her the laptop as a gift, then that would do absolutely nothing but tell her that stealing from us is the right thing to do as she had a crying pity party when we knew it was missing, stating that there was no way she would do that to us after the things she had already done. It wasn't stuff that destroyed her relationship with us. It was her disregard for any value that my wife and I have as family and humans.


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Meka, you're a very sweet person, but this is the end of a long line of excuses and laziness. She's got mental issues, she's a user and a manipulator, and she thinks she's really slick in how she "handles" everybody. 

We have dealt with this for about 4 years now... she got legit sick and was having a had time attending school... and it's just spiraled down hill from there. She was kicked out of 2 high schools for not completing even the minimum of work. (And covered it all up until the last day-- BOTH times!) Exceptions were made and she manipulated the local high school teachers to basically pass her for classes she never turned in any work for to get her diploma. (The family didn't know that either.)

She enrolled in community college on FULL RIDE pell grant and was kicked out.. this time she was able to conceal it longer and she was dropped for almost a month before we figured out all her "homework" time was just fun time. 

Ever since she lost access to the computers that got her into so much trouble she began to steal them... the first was an ancient desktop she set up in a 2 ft across closet so no one noticed. It's part of her repertoire to pretend to be sick AS MUCH as possible so no one asks her to do chores and she can catch up on her sleep from all night internet jags. 

If you found a relative of yours huddled in a dark closet with 20 bottles of vodka... would YOU give them more?

How about if they had been conning you long enough to think they were responsible and they could take care of your house, kids and animals to go on a 10 year anniversary trip for 3 days? 

That happened to us. I came back... she sat in her closet just a little too long, and I found it. The story we pried out of internet history was that she had gotten on when we left the driveway, and took 3 hours to sleep in all three days. My children were unattended and my 9 year old took care of the baby and cooked all the meals. 

From that point we realized she had a problem. A few days after that, our laptop went missing. We were moving and our Landlords had started walking away some of our tools everytime they came over to work on the place for the next tenants-- so they were blamed. She hid it at my mom's house until the move was complete. 

When we all left the combined family home, mother moved in with her SO with our younger brother. He did not want Katherine staying there because of her addiction problems and her laziness. 

She does no chores. Anything she does do, it's rushed, done poorly, and she cuts ANY corners she thinks she can get away with. If its something like feeding or watering or cleaning up after an animal (even her own) she lies about doing it. 

When we confiscated back the stolen property she had LETTERS saved on her computer and chat logs and emails open bragging to her online friends how she manipulates us. I found horrible, vulgar, threatening and sexual (all in the same text) letters she wrote to people to be cruel to them for no longer being involved with her. 
She cried to her friends (who didn't ask) that she was being blamed for stealing a laptop... this message she SENT from a stolen laptop. 
When she's really backed into a corner, she talks about killing herself. Turns out she's not suicidal, it's part of her manipulation game. Any lie she thinks she can use to get people to believe her and feel sorry for her is fair game. And I DO mean any. You name it, she's told it. 

This cycle has to end. It's the "stuff" and her perverse sloth that is killing her and her chance at a decent life. I am no longer enabling her at ANY COST and I am not letting her set even a passive poor example for my children any longer. 

If she works for nothing, she should have nothing. I think the best thing for her would be to live among the homeless for a while and pull herself out when she realizes it sucks. All the services are there to do it. But mom doesn't agree. She still wants to protect her from the harshness of the life she's built, BUT Katherine still can't live with her. It's a very frustrating situation. Mom was only angry enough to give a ---- about how screwed over I am for about a week. Now it's "poor Katherine" needs special considerations. AGAIN.


----------



## cindy-e (Feb 14, 2008)

I vote for selling the trailer. Perfectly legal way to get rid of her after the 30 days without taking her to court. I know what it is like to have a sibling who isn't well. I understand that even though you are angry, what you are doing is VERY HARD, and that you are doing it in part because it is right for your sister that she not be allowed to continue down this path. I also understand how it feels to be the only one in the family who sees what needs to be done and get flack for doing it. I am very sorry you are going through this. 

Best of luck to you,
Cindyc.


----------



## JanO (Jun 17, 2003)

Under the circumstances I'd throw her out. Push her buttons and as soon as she makes a suicidal "threat" make one phone call to the police. They will haul her in for a psyc eval/72 hr. lock up. That may be the only way you get her out without having to pay for the eviction. As soon as she's gone destroy, or move, the trailer. 

It's hard, but it may be the only thing to do.

Good luck


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

Just wanted to add one more thing in response to meka. You stated that her problem is theft. I think that is where you got confused. Theft is only a symptom of her true problem, which is addiction. If we only treated the symptom (theft), it would do nothing but ignore that there is a greater issue to be dealt with. It would be like taking pain killers to deal with the pain of a broken arm, without fixing the arm.


----------



## mrs.H (Mar 6, 2003)

Meka you are sweet. But this isn't "value of stuff vs a human" this is how much do I value my children over some one who only values other humans as far as she can use them.


----------



## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

Maybe I missed it-but was there a reason you cant change the locks as soon as she steps out? Best of Luck


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Saw this today...


----------



## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

If you are going to scrap the trailer, why not just haul it to your Mom's and give it to her? You could just get out of a mess that you can't fix with Mom on the other side. Sounds like your Mom is part of the problem as well.


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Talked to DH about selling or scrapping the trailer. Selling it outright to get rid of her was a great idea... but he reminded me how we had a lot of plans and uses for the materials around the farm... the wood and metal siding for animal shelters mainly. There's definitely a couple hundred in useful to us materials in it + whatever we get for the selling scrap load. *That part* is actually really exciting. Sadly, I don't think the rules are the same in selling vs. demolition. 

I'm thinkin about selling the knotty pine cabinets in the old kitchen on CL soon... I'm sure someone will want them, they look pretty good actually. I'm sure I can get some pocket change for them, and that part I don't have to wait for her to be out for.

I want to thank everyone again who has been posting in this thread and I will continue to update you all--- It has been SUCH a blessing to be able to come here and be reassured that we are handling this well, and that we're not reacting too harshly in our extended irritation. 

Sometimes when you're handling something this big, this complex, and this close to you it's easy to second guess yourself. Thankfully she has been really quiet and avoiding us. The power she wastes is a pretty big annoyance, and I was really ----ed off when I realized she ruined the floor in the one bathroom by leaving the hose running into the toilet full time. (Water drips from the trailer to the ground right through the floor now.) Most of the time I don't even think about her... just want to clean up that eyesore of a singlewide now mainly.


----------



## Tana Mc (May 10, 2002)

My two cents on this saga is:

Brace yourselves this is going to be harsh..... it has to be. There is NO OTHER WAY.

Start the demo work. See how far you can get before anything happens. I am willing to bet that absolutely nothing happens and she will sit right there in the rubble. 
If she or your mom calls the authorities, keep working on demo until somebody shows up with a court order to stop you. Then play stupid....... She is not a renter, does not have a lease, you gave her notice, she is due soon in court for theft charges and the trailer is not liveable and certainly won't be if you get yourselves busy. She is a squatter and you want her gone from your property. You probably need to just go ahead and resolve in your mind that your mom is playing favorites and you are NOT it. 

My bet is that nothing will happen. Demo everything and then burn the left over trash. 

She is counting on you being so worried about "the authorities" that she will stay right there and probably camp in the ashes. If somebody does show up, counter file any and every nuisance charge and restraining order that you can. Try for criminal tresspassing and property destruction, terroristic threats....anything you can get a cop to write up. Two can play that game...... None of it will probably happen because basically she is all talk and no show. If it does, play to win. 

This is not going to go away unless you guys handle it and handle it now. Every hour that passes convinces her that you are not going to follow up and gives her encouragement to keep playing these manipulation games. Every day that passes makes her just a little more confident that she is going to get around you and win.

Been there, done that, got the ex-relatives and more peaceful lifestyle to show for it!!

Good luck and best wishes!


----------



## MARYDVM (Jun 7, 2004)

How about getting the health dept. to condemn the trailer? With no power, running water, and a rotted floor it certainly seems unfit for human habitation.
Maybe an anonymous "complaint."


----------



## fellini123 (Feb 2, 2003)

I wouldnt get the government involved in any way. If an anonymous complaint was made I wouldnt be surprised if they didnt fine you and make you bring it up to code.
Government is like that!
Alice in Virginia


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

fellini123 said:


> I wouldnt get the government involved in any way. If an anonymous complaint was made I wouldnt be surprised if they didnt fine you and make you bring it up to code.
> Government is like that!
> Alice in Virginia


My thought exactly


----------



## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

I don't envy you guys one bit. I wish you good luck. Family bites IMO and IME.


----------



## dancingfatcat (Jan 1, 2008)

Here is a link that I think will help you. It will only cost you 45.00 to file the eviction. Forms are here to print out as well. This covers all laws in the state of Arizona.....what is expected from you as well. 

Arizona Laws-http://justicecourts.maricopa.gov/CaseTypes/eviction.aspx


What Must Be In The Lawsuit and Other Court Documents
Eviction cases are governed by the Arizona Rules of Procedure for Eviction Actions. The lawsuit consists of two main documents. The summons tells the tenant when and where to appear. The complaint tells the tenant what the landlord is requesting. The rules require that a total of four documents be served on the tenant: (1) The summons; (2) Residential Eviction Information Sheet; (3) The complaint and (4) A copy of any notice must be attached to the complaint. The filing fee for the landlord is $45.00.


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

So fun twist to the ever exciting dramas that are evictions....

Dusky and I did not heed everyone's advice, and of course got burned. We decided to be "nice", read doormats, and give SIL a bit more time to sort out her life and get into Job Corps. The caveat was she had to do some chores around the yard in order to keep her power. Her chores amounted to moving a couple wheel barrows of rocks from the front yard to the back yard per day for about a month, and then moving manure from the backyard to the front. Of course she could not follow through on her duties, so on January 21st, after not doing anything for a week, I told her she was fired and served her with a legal 30 day eviction notice. The next day we brought her mother over, explained the situation, and she got to see firsthand just how manipulative the SIL truly is.

We began performing daily inspections. Of course she isn't taking any kind of care of the derelict home. We explained there was absolutely no getting out of this eviction notice, and that we would be taking it all the way through the court system this time if need be.

Guess what happens next!?!? CPS shows up at our door today under a complaint of neglect! And the allegations? Only things that SIL would know anything about, and every allegation was a complete lie. So now CPS will be doing a follow up visit in two weeks just to see that everything is still good.


Keep this in mind anyone doing an eviction. Listen to the people on this forum, because we didn't, and believe me, I wish we did. I almost hope she doesn't leave when the eviction notice ends so I can take her to court and watch a constable throw her out on her bum.


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Pretty much everybody with a demented relative does get burned: that is how we got so wise!

It sounds like you did very well with CPS, by the way. My sister got reported by a jealous friend: it DOES happen all too often! And, CPS KNOWS that!


----------



## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

Oh, good grief. She's full of it. 

Tell her if she keeps burning bridges, she won't have any left to live under.


----------



## SilverFlame819 (Aug 24, 2010)

Seriously?? I'd start dismantling the house. Let her sit on her butt and whine while you tear the whole thing down around her!


----------



## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if someone reports you to CPS, and that report turns out to be unfounded or meant to intimidate or harass, the person may well find themselves in a lot of trouble with the authorities. Isn't it akin to filing a false police report?


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but if someone reports you to CPS, and that report turns out to be unfounded or meant to intimidate or harass, the person may well find themselves in a lot of trouble with the authorities. Isn't it akin to filing a false police report?


Considering the SIL, the report was probably done anonymously so I doubt that anything negative would bite her from it.


----------



## sandc (Apr 26, 2010)

I hate to say it but by this point I would throw a rock through my own window and call the cops on her. Then after they get involved offer to not press charges if she leaves the property for good...

When it comes to the welfare of my family, I will play it any way I have to play it to keep them safe and happy. Involving CPS would be a game changer in my household and a life changer in hers.


----------



## Saffron (May 24, 2006)

Being that I have a family member who is dealing with false CPS reports - every time they call or come over on a report, make sure to tell them about SIL and that you know she is the one who called it in because you are evicting her. Let them know that there is a problem there and that they will probably get several calls. This gives them a heads up, and when she does call in enough CPS reports, they can charge her with false reports and you can have her served for harassment. Yes, you will have to deal with them calling or visiting, but you know you are on the up-and-up, so play the game and point it out. Tell them about the situation and when they visit point out where she lives and they may pay her a visit.

Even if it was an anon report, they can bite back at her.


----------



## General Brown (Jan 10, 2008)

Two can play this game.....
Catch her outside and have your wife to beat the crap out of her, unmercifully. You can be the witness saying that she assaulted your wife first. Call the law immediately and have her forcefully removed and then a restraining order.


----------



## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

This thread is a few months old, wonder what happened


----------



## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but if someone reports you to CPS, and that report turns out to be unfounded or meant to intimidate or harass, the person may well find themselves in a lot of trouble with the authorities. Isn't it akin to filing a false police report?


Yes, it _can_, but she'll have to do it a bunch of times and be blatantly lying before they do, and chances are, she'll get off with a slap on the wrists.


----------



## ItchingDuck (Jan 25, 2012)

Yeah, in my experience no one tends to get in trouble because it could potentially scare people who would make a claim into keeping silent in case they were wrong. It would have to be very blatent. In the meantime you get harrassed by cps.


----------



## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Lazaryss said:


> So fun twist to the ever exciting dramas that are evictions....
> 
> Dusky and I did not heed everyone's advice, and of course got burned. We decided to be "nice", read doormats, and give SIL a bit more time to sort out her life and get into Job Corps. The caveat was she had to do some chores around the yard in order to keep her power. Her chores amounted to moving a couple wheel barrows of rocks from the front yard to the back yard per day for about a month, and then moving manure from the backyard to the front. Of course she could not follow through on her duties, so on January 21st, after not doing anything for a week, I told her she was fired and served her with a legal 30 day eviction notice. The next day we brought her mother over, explained the situation, and she got to see firsthand just how manipulative the SIL truly is.
> 
> ...


The way to deal with crazies is to let them know you can get WAY more crazy than they can, and when they least expect it. BTDT


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

Shygal said:


> This thread is a few months old, wonder what happened


This is what happened.

So fun twist to the ever exciting dramas that are evictions....

Dusky and I did not heed everyone's advice, and of course got burned. We decided to be "nice", read doormats, and give SIL a bit more time to sort out her life and get into Job Corps. The caveat was she had to do some chores around the yard in order to keep her power. Her chores amounted to moving a couple wheel barrows of rocks from the front yard to the back yard per day for about a month, and then moving manure from the backyard to the front. Of course she could not follow through on her duties, so on January 21st, after not doing anything for a week, I told her she was fired and served her with a legal 30 day eviction notice. The next day we brought her mother over, explained the situation, and she got to see firsthand just how manipulative the SIL truly is.

We began performing daily inspections. Of course she isn't taking any kind of care of the derelict home. We explained there was absolutely no getting out of this eviction notice, and that we would be taking it all the way through the court system this time if need be.

Guess what happens next!?!? CPS shows up at our door today under a complaint of neglect! And the allegations? Only things that SIL would know anything about, and every allegation was a complete lie. So now CPS will be doing a follow up visit in two weeks just to see that everything is still good.


Keep this in mind anyone doing an eviction. Listen to the people on this forum, because we didn't, and believe me, I wish we did. I almost hope she doesn't leave when the eviction notice ends so I can take her to court and watch a constable throw her out on her bum.


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but if someone reports you to CPS, and that report turns out to be unfounded or meant to intimidate or harass, the person may well find themselves in a lot of trouble with the authorities. Isn't it akin to filing a false police report?


I believe this is why they are coming back for a follow up in 2 weeks to close the case completely and not waste any more time on answering the calls. I do have to comply with taking all the kids to the pediatrician in the meantime and prove their shots are utd-- so that's a pain in my backside. Also provide records to document all of oldest DD's homeschool hours to prove I didn't simply remove her from school to keep her as a slave like the complaint alleged so I could do nothing all day. Yes, seriously. Thank the Maker she's enrolled in K12 and I have instant access to her report cards and class hours 24/7. 

The kicker is that one of the "allegations" is that "all the adults sleep until noon, and the kids are unsupervised." 

Guess when I take my mid pregnancy (doctor AND grandma ordered) cat nap to recharge for the afternoon? 

Guess when the case worker showed up?

Congratulations you Witch, now I am exhausted from the 3 young children, the farm chores and my pregnancy and I don't feel safe to take a nap in my own home anymore. 

Bridge demolished, burned to the ground, and pigeons pooped on the remains.

There is nothing in her life that could possibly happen to make me care one whit to help her for the rest of her days. Her only blood sibling. 

My mother is finally furious enough with her to not even begrudge me tossing her out in the street for even a moment. Like any mom, she loves all her children and doesn't want them to suffer so she's been trying to broker compromises for the last several months-- that's all changed for sister. Now her mom's give a darn is broken too. Finally. 

Mom also suspects that sister dissapeared the keys to stepdad's empty condo in the city he's been trying to rent out unsuccessfully-- they're gone, her different types of denials fit her pattern of manipulation/past thefts and the timing is perfect to give her a place to squat when she finds herself dropped off with a backpack to live out of. Everything a person would need to break into the house and not trip the security system is missing. 
I advised mom find time to come over to the trailer and look for them while sister is out. Legally I can't rifle through her things to help and I've decided not to antagonize the rotten punk because I don't know just what she's capable of in her sociopathic spiral. If they find them (or her trespassing) she is going to jail in violation of her probation over the misdemeanor laptop theft. If they don't find them and have to have new keys and remotes made up it will cost them 300 bucks. (At least they can afford it if it comes to it.)

I live in fear now that next she's going to try to poison my animals or take them across the street and release them in the desert or something out of spite in the night. It's 4:30 in the morning and I can't sleep, I am so agitated with worry over what she might do and ways the cps investigation might possibly go against me--- I am blessed to have an amazing best friend who is deep into foster care/cps work and she's been over here many times and insists she never noticed anything wrong or unsafe. To help me feel better she agreed to come by and give my place a critical look over before the appointment comes. 

I am trying sooo hard not to worry and make myself or the baby sick. I need your prayers for emotional strength and good health to get through this ordeal until the offender is a good 50 miles away and this stupid case is closed.


----------



## aftermidnite (Dec 8, 2005)

All I have to offer is prayers and you have them often ...


----------



## Saffron (May 24, 2006)

Shygal said:


> This thread is a few months old, wonder what happened


Lazaryss updated it a few posts above yours.


eta - I see he quoted you with it.


----------



## Mattemma (Jan 1, 2013)

My brother is similar. You will always love them,but it will be a very good feeling once they are not in your immediate life.

Hope all is better.


----------



## Saffron (May 24, 2006)

I know you are stressed over the CPS visit, but try not to be. They aren't as bad if you have a reasonable person doing it. Did you show them the eviction notice and dates when they came the first time?
Do you have any game cams to help watch over your animals? 

For your mom - she probably needs to change the locks now. Have they checked to see if she hasn't given the keys to someone who is already squatting and waiting for her? Of course, if your sis finds out that the locks are changed, she won't be as willing to leave your home at the end of the time and then you will have to deal with her longer.

Good luck on this


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Saffron said:


> I know you are stressed over the CPS visit, but try not to be. They aren't as bad if you have a reasonable person doing it.


We got a woman from the city in leopard print high heels and a clean SUV with leather seats. 

I didn't bother trying to explain country dirt or how busy I am with the animals. Her first suggestion to "lighten my burden" was to send DD back to public school and put my youngest in daycare. My daughter bragged about how responsible she was in her private interview and how she knows how to cook and the worker became concerned that if she was acting like a "little mom at 9" what wasn't I doing. 

I'm sure she cares about children but the jury is out on "reasonable". 

I'm sure as sunshine not bringing up my raw milk. She probably would have suggested I sell my dairy animals and start buying my milk in the store. 
This is why I am stressed-- she doesn't "get it". 
All she knows is what the complaint says, I was asleep when she showed up just like the complaint said I would be, and my floors needed to be cleaned. 
I am having a hard time *not* stressing. :hair 

In between cleaning the carpets with a machine probably too heavy for me to be pushing-- we'll be working on touching up the stock pens daily. 
I am guessing bratty princess also has an anonymous animal neglect complaint out too and I will have to give them the farm tour on monday or something.


----------



## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

Dusky, do you have a friend who can pitch in and give you a hand until this is over with?
I wish I could!


----------



## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

Y'know, Dusky, while I would be mad enough to spit too, please don't get cagey with the social worker. That's not in anyone's best interests. Seriously, when she comes back, smile, offer her tea, and tell her what's going on with your sis away from the kids. It will be okay. After she leaves, leave the kids with your DH for a couple hours, drive off by yourself and decompress. You need this stress like you need a hole in your head.

I am so terribly sorry, the situation is appalling. You are pregnant, caring for a handful of kids and a farm. Drama is not something you need, particularly drama that threatens your children. For their sakes, I think the relationship with your sister should be severed, and you should never feel bad about it.


----------



## Taratunafish (Aug 6, 2007)

Sounds like your sister is seeing how serious you are about standing your ground and is retaliating for it. Sounds like she's seeing some of the consequences of her actions. Yes, I agree with the others, wish I could help you with your immediate needs so you could worry just a little less. Stand your ground and breathe for that baby of yours.
Really, sometimes I wish this community wasn't spread out like we are. I would enjoy this group more in person!
-Taratunafish


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Had a couple out to see a heifer I am selling (they're taking her) and in the course of farm talk and information exchange I brought up the sister story as part of explaining my plans for the space when the yucky trailer is gone. 
I suggested they take a really good look at the health of my stock and my environment just in case I got a visit from animal cruelty this week. They had a good laugh. 

It seems I have developed a great reputation for the health of my homesteaders stock in my area and the support I give people, so that was nice to hear after such a bad day.


----------



## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

Geeze. If I remember right, your daughter is homeschooling by her choice because she wants to be a vet, right? And in the brief few moments I spoke to her, I could pretty much tell she was a sharp cookie.

Hopefully, your social worker has a clue. Nine year olds SHOULD have some degree of responsibility! What, does she think the kid should sit in front of the TV and play video games all day until she turns 18, except for homework and school work, and NO chores, because that would "keep her safe" and "let her be a kid"? 

Sigh.


----------



## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Dusky Beauty said:


> There is nothing in her life that could possibly happen to make me care one whit to help her for the rest of her days. Her only blood sibling.


Please don't say anything like that. Do you want your children to disown one another because of hurt feelings? What happens if she turns her life around? Even if one of your children did something horrible to another wouldn't you want the wronged child to forgive the other if true repentance was shown?



Dusky Beauty said:


> I'm sure she cares about children but the jury is out on "reasonable".
> 
> All she knows is what the complaint says, I was asleep when she showed up just like the complaint said I would be, and my floors needed to be cleaned.
> I am having a hard time *not* stressing. :hair
> ...


As long as you have a paths to get around 3' piles of crud, a couple pieces of clothing to wear, access to food and education, and a place to sleep they cannot say you're ignoring your children. 

A friend of mine had DCFS called on her mom _many_ times during her childhood. Their house was filthy. I don't mean it was dirty; I mean stuff was growing where things ought not grow. There were literally paths through the piles. DCFS couldn't do anything. 

Your house does not have to be clean; it must be safe. If child services required everybody to have a clean house they'd have to take in half of all kids. They don't care if you sleep until noon. Heck, if you sleep that late your kids probably sleep late too. 

Do not answer questions they don't ask. Don't even consider talking about milk. Heck, I know you gave that up long ago, right?


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Joshie said:


> Please don't say anything like that. Do you want your children to disown one another because of hurt feelings? What happens if she turns her life around? Even if one of your children did something horrible to another wouldn't you want the wronged child to forgive the other if true repentance was shown?


I do believe in the reforming power of the holy spirit. I have seen AMAZING transformations in people... but my family is better off if I opt to let God try to read her heart and leave her be to sort herself out or not. 1.)She has no capacity for empathy (proven up as a sociopath), 2.)A manipulation prodigy and accomplished liar. 3.)She believes herself not accountable to anybody, including God in her words. Bottom line there is no way to know if she were to "truly" repent. 

My mom wanted to "take her to church to make an impression on her". 

Are you crazy??? :umno:

The last thing I want her to do is learn how to fake faith and learn how to manipulate good people so she can conn them. 
The girl has been to church. She knows how it works, she wants none of it and sitting her in a pew isn't going to make her a better person by osmosis unless she wants it. She craves and so creates control... there's no room for God in her universe of one at this point in time.

This isn't about hurt feelings. This is about someone willing to do any vicious retaliatory thing she can do to lash out on a pathological level. I'm honestly scared to see what she will attempt next before she's gone--- will she poison my chickens? open all my gates?? I have no idea.


----------



## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Our DD and two of her neighbors helped another neighbor leave her abusive husband. He called the Feds and claimed they were part of a drug ring. I will have to say they came to check but didn't take it too seriously, especially when all of them let them search their homes. They said this sort of things happens all too often, and went to talk to the husband.


----------



## Taratunafish (Aug 6, 2007)

besides, IF your sister is going to make a change, it has to come from her, no one else. She's abusive, but smart enough to know where to go/what to do if she truely wants to make that change.


----------



## Saffron (May 24, 2006)

Since the CPS worker showed concern over the homeschooling, it might not hurt to put in a call to HSLDA just as a precaution.


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Saffron said:


> Since the CPS worker showed concern over the homeschooling, it might not hurt to put in a call to HSLDA just as a precaution.


The homeschooling should not be a problem because with the virtual academy program I can chart and document her progress and hours week to week. 

Homeschooling was a part of the complaint because the allegation was that I removed her from school to *say* I was homeschooling, but that she wasn't doing any school, she was our full time maid and general purpose child slave when she should have been in school. gre:

Katherine's definition of "slave" is unusual... I guess since she didn't have to clean her own bedroom or wash a dish until she was 12 she can't fathom children under 10 who can sweep a floor.... or getting up early enough to finish an entire day of school work by 1 pm.


----------



## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Dusky Beauty said:


> This isn't about hurt feelings. This is about someone willing to do any vicious retaliatory thing she can do to lash out on a pathological level. I'm honestly scared to see what she will attempt next before she's gone--- will she poison my chickens? open all my gates?? I have no idea.


I don't think she's safe to have around your family right now. I was just saying that I hope you keep the door open to forgiveness with _true_ repentance. _If_ that ever happens, it'll most likely be years away. I wouldn't hold my breath or anything. This isn't about going to church. You can say you know and love God all you want but if you don't show that in the way you live it doesn't mean a thing.

I agree with you that she is not safe to have around your family at this time. What a horrible thing.


----------



## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

With DHS you have to be extremely careful. Depending on the worker you can have serious problems over nothing. 

I 100% agree with your assessment "There is nothing in her life that could possibly happen to make me care one whit to help her for the rest of her days."


----------



## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

<snip>


Dusky Beauty said:


> I guess since she didn't have to clean her own bedroom or wash a dish until she was 12 she can't fathom children under 10 who can sweep a floor.... or getting up early enough to finish an entire day of school work by 1 pm.


Your poor, poor, abused, overwoked, daughter. She's JUST like Cinderella ... unloved, unappreciated, worked to the bone, used like a slave. :happy2:

Children the world over have chores. It's a lack of chores (or other work of some kind) and/or a lack of assigning some sort of responsibility that I'd call abuse, not putting the kid to work. A nine year old is perfectly capable of vacuuming or other light house work, particularly if mom is pregnant and dad's going to school and working. 

Your daughter is lucky enough to have a chance at a very good education, as well as being taught responsibility and the value of self motivation. Takes a lot of self motivation and the ability to work alone to home school -- I assume you're not standing over her with a ruler for several hours a day, yes/no? Learning to work on her own, without someone telling her EXACTLY what to do, and learning it early, is a critical life skill. 

I used to work in a call center, and, among other things, I helped train newbies for a position that was very technical and knowledge intensive. Lots of math involved, and a lot of critical thinking. The company figured it took six weeks of classroom work and six months on the job before a newbie was really competent. Yet I could usually tell within a few minutes of working with someone if they'd learned how to think critically and creatively on their own or if they'd been spoon fed their education ("taught to the test") and had never been held accountable as a child. 

Recent Arizona high school graduates were generally profoundly clueless and poorly educated. 

I once had a newbie employee in his late teens tell me he couldn't calculate what 25% of $10.00 was _because he had a new calculator and nobody had shown him how to use it yet. _I suggested he just divide the $10 by four on paper, since 25% was the same as 1/4th and he didn't get the connection AT ALL.

And don't get me started on writing abilities (or the lack thereof) in new graduates. I suspect kids are not required to write nearly as many essays and reports as I was ...

Arizona's public schools are BAD. They were bad when I was a kid and have only gone downhill since, from what I've heard and seen from new high school graduates.

(And for what it's worth, entrance into vet school is competitive. I didn't get in, even though it was my life's dream as a child. Your daughter's background of having livestock should give her a definite edge, and your willingness to get involved with her education is definite, definite, plus. And don't let anyone tell you differently.)

Bit of a vent. Summed up -- you're doing it right.


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Cygnet said:


> <snip>
> 
> Your daughter is lucky enough to have a chance at a very good education, as well as being taught responsibility and the value of self motivation. Takes a lot of self motivation and the ability to work alone to home school -- I assume you're not standing over her with a ruler for several hours a day, yes/no? Learning to work on her own, without someone telling her EXACTLY what to do, and learning it early, is a critical life skill.


I am also willing to let her screw up. One of her big assignments a month ago was to write and submit a poem for grading. She worked really hard on a good one about riding her horse, then she misplaced it before submitting and couldn't find it. 
I didn't negotiate for extra time, or dictate or coach another one. I made her submit something else she had that wasn't as good and she ate the lesser grade accordingly, now she has to work harder to make it up. 


I have zero faith in a public high school system that let my sister graduate with Fs in two "required" credit classes.

My 6 yo is still there because she got a teacher who actually gives merit based letter grades, not this "satisfactory or unsatisfactory" report card nonsense. She is very bookish and does well in a traditional classroom if she's challenged enough. The oldest does her best work alone, otherwise she lets the teacher "lead her" and doesn't learn anything, or she gets distracted by the other children.


----------



## Prov31Wife (Dec 20, 2012)

This is OT, and I don't want to hijack the thread, but very quickly...

As a public high school English teacher, I just want to put out there that many of us require writing, and essays, and work. Just because I teach it, and assign it, doesn't mean it gets always gets done by the students, unfortunately. 

There is a GIANT stack of papers in my school bag though as evidence that some of us are still fighting the good fight to get students to learn and write.

That being said, I have nothing negative to say about homeschooling. There are awesome programs out there.


----------



## sandc (Apr 26, 2010)

After reading your comments above about having one kid in the ps system and one being homeschooled it really got me to thinking. I have two sons, one that excels at the ps sytem thing and one that struggles with it. He is extremely smart and reads beyond any reading level they are offering him, but he does not feel challenged and it makes him wander off topic and fall behind. I have really considered homeschooling him next year when I am back out of college and can devote the time to him instead of trying to make him adjust to my odd schedule. I have been very concerned about the child left in school feeling like he is being shorted or having issues with school because of it. Did you ever have issues along hese lines?

I know it is ot, so if you want to pm the answer to me, please feel free.


----------



## SilverFlame819 (Aug 24, 2010)

I was bored out of my mind in public school, and almost didn't graduate because I was failing everything (everything but guitar & speech). 

I had several colleges contact me wanting me to attend their schools based on my ACT scores though.

I say go with what works the best for each child.


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I'm so sorry you are going through all of this. It will pass and it will be done. As Joshie wrote, CPS sees horrible abuse. And they are well aware that friends and family use them during feuds.

Take your naps, take a deep breath. We're all pulling for you.


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

SilverFlame819 said:


> I was bored out of my mind in public school, and almost didn't graduate because I was failing everything (everything but guitar & speech).
> 
> I had several colleges contact me wanting me to attend their schools based on my ACT scores though.
> 
> I say go with what works the best for each child.


I was not a public school type kid either. I was so sick of it, that I ended up dropping out of public school and finishing High School through a correspondence school. I finished faster, and with better grades, than I ever did in a traditional classroom setting.


----------



## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

I may have missed it, but I'm hoping you told the CPS worker that you know who the "anonymous" caller was and explained that you're in the process of evicting her, so the call is retaliatory. And of course you're going to cooperate with their investigation completely because you have nothing to hide, but you want them to be aware that the call was made out of spite for you and not concern for your children's welfare.......

((hug))


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

bluemoonluck said:


> I may have missed it, but I'm hoping you told the CPS worker that you know who the "anonymous" caller was and explained that you're in the process of evicting her, so the call is retaliatory. And of course you're going to cooperate with their investigation completely because you have nothing to hide, but you want them to be aware that the call was made out of spite for you and not concern for your children's welfare.......
> 
> ((hug))


I am going to talk to the CPS worker about that when she comes back on the 18th for the follow-up visit.


----------



## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Yeah, I was a little floored with shock at the time, and was woken up in the middle of a sleep cycle and not alltogether there at the time. 

I decided at the time to answer the questions truthfully, smile, nod, and not make any excuses for the cluttered state of the house--- with small children it's always in a flux of "controlled chaos", and my carpets are old, ugly and stained anyway--- that's really all she had to complain about. 
Most of her comments were along the lines of "that carpet is not clean enough for a baby to crawl on"... uhm... well, I was planning on buying a new shampooer in 2 days anyway... and the baby won't exactly be here for another 4+ months. 

Dirt is just kind of a way of life out here... especially since we just had a bunch of rainstorms. 

I just know she's gonna come in here and pat herself on the back next week when a couple of the kids have brand new beds and new organizer systems to get the piles of toys out of the closets and clothes out of the tote bins... 

Not like it has *anything* to do with the fact I've been waiting for my tax refund since august to finish up furnishing the house or anything....

I'm positive my sister orchestrated the whole thing by peeking through the windows when I wasn't home and picked the first week in the timeframe I was overworked and feeling yuck. Devious little snit.


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

9 days until eviction day! Starting to get excited about putting the new lock on the door and locking the deadbolt!


----------



## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

News?? Hope all is well


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

bluemoonluck said:


> I may have missed it, but I'm hoping you told the CPS worker that you know who the "anonymous" caller was and explained that you're in the process of evicting her, so the call is retaliatory. And of course you're going to cooperate with their investigation completely because you have nothing to hide, but you want them to be aware that the call was made out of spite for you and not concern for your children's welfare.......
> 
> ((hug))


So the CPS worker came by today, but not before trying to reschedule due to inlcement weather (it rained a bit in Phoenix), and us telling her no because we wanted it out of the way. She officially closed our case, but not before several "warnings". I tried to explain to her that the call was from my sister in law being vindictive and lieing. She stopped me before I could even begin explaining. She then began stating that several of the claims were substantiated, such as animal feces (hot chocolate) on the floor, and us sleeping til noon (I work til 7am and Dusky is pregnant, stays up late to take care of things, AND gets up at 6am to get Mina out the door to school on time). She then stated that excuses don't matter, to which I told her I was making no excuse, and then stated now we just need to make sure everything is kept up. She explained she could have had the children moved to a safe environment, such as my mother in law's, for the past three weeks because the house was an immediate danger, not to mention it was bad for the new baby (which won't be here for several months). She then informed us that if another report was called in for any reason that it would be a red flag and explained possible consequences.

I am about to be having a conversation with my mother in law that will explain this to her and explain that our children will be nowhere near sister in law again. Dusky tried to have this conversation with mother in law a couple days ago to which mother in law shut down the discussion stating that dusky was emotional and hormonal, speaking in the same manner that sister in law does..

In regards to sister in law, she got everything she ever wanted! She is almost fully moved out, thank The Lord! However, she sweet talked her way into living with mother in law and mother in law's SO, until she gets her life started. She now has free power, cable tv, internet, and great food at her slimy fingertips. She just failed her driving test as well. Hopefully mother in law's SO will figure it out before she destroys their relationship...


----------



## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

I wonder if there is anyway to appeal the findings. Not sure I would but information is power. 
Glad your case is closed though.


----------



## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

THERE IS A APPEAL PROCESS.
lol there always is I am not sure I would want these folks in my house again But I would bet that the sis will turn you in again....and again


----------



## cindy-e (Feb 14, 2008)

Last I heard, sleeping until noon is not illegal. If the kids are at school, not being unsupervised, IDK what the problem is there. Sounds like the CPS worker was just trying to scare you. They sometimes think it is their job to do that. 

Could you get a restraining order, to keep your sister off of your property? At least if she tries that again with CPS there is a legal record of your conflict with her. And she would get in trouble for snooping. 

But if not: curtains. buy curtains and keep them closed when the house is not picked up. get some cheap rugs to lay down over the carpet until you can replace it so it. that way there is nothing to complain about. 

Just a thought. 

Cindyc.


----------



## salmonslayer (Jan 4, 2009)

CPS varies from state to state but generally they cannot just come into your house unless they believe a child is in imminent danger and I would never let them in my house or answer any questions from them. Force them to prove their case in court and dont let the presence of a police officer or deputy intimidate you, they often bring them along for that very purpose and most LEO hate it..

When I was a probation officer I saw a lot of fine work by CPS case workers and also a lot of abuse because people are afraid of CPS and CPS will often try to intimidate people who the case worker thought didnt live up to their standards of living (I would get dragged into cases myself occasionally and they would try to use my position for leverage). The poor and people living alternative life styles (homesteaders, home schoolers, single or gay couples etc) often get unfairly targeted by CPS workers who have their own vision of how things should be.

In most places they can interview your child without your initial knowledge or consent but they do not have a right to search your house or property without an accusation of imminent danger (as opposed to say neglect or some vague notion of abuse not involving imminent danger) and in most places that means they have to get the courts to review the evidence.

I am in no way sanctioning child abuse or neglect, just cautioning to know your rights (and if you call CPS they will tell you you have to cooperate etc so talk to a legal professional) because once you get involved with these people they will subject you to comments, counseling, followups etc that may be way out of proportion to what the true circumstances are.


----------



## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

You might want to get an attorney, now..and let CPS know you now have one..if she made up the feces on floor etc..you need someone to make sure it goes no where else. And to make sure sil and mil know you are serious. This could get nasty fast.


----------



## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

I want to echo about HSLDA. WELL worth the minimal cost to be a member. It's a must to join them if you homeschool at all.


----------



## Lazaryss (Jul 28, 2012)

Sister in Law is out and has been informed that if she ever sets foot on our property again, she will be arrested. Mother in law has been informed that as long as sister in law lives with her, the grandkids will not set foot in her house. She was informed, however, that she was more than welcome to come to our home at any time.


----------



## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I would hesitate to let m-i-l into my house just in case she goes back and tells s-i-l something that she could report to DHS again. Better to avoid having anyone in your home for the time being until you have the time and money to fix the problems. I do not trust DHS. If they get a court order they will yank your kids so fast your head will spin and it will possibly take you years to get them back.

I second getting an attorney. My nephew and his wife were falsely accused of child abuse while they were foster parents. It was later proven that the abuse occurred at the state ordered day care the children had to attend each day. An attorney was needed to get their record cleared.

We were foster parents for 15 years and one of the main reasons we stopped was due to bad DHS workers. We had a couple of excellent workers but two really really really bad ones convinced us to get out of the system.


----------



## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

I second the attorney. 
Make sure you cover yourself legally. Be prepared, it is my experience that once a person decides to report you, they will do so when ever they remember the anger they have at you. It is hard to prove your innocence to CPS.


----------



## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

Here's hoping that your sis and CPS are out of your hair forever!


----------



## DownHome (Jan 20, 2006)

I was curious as to what happened after all this? any updates.


----------



## OUVickie (Mar 8, 2003)

Dusky Beauty said:


> We got into the laptop and went through some of her emails making sure she didn't have anything illegal on the machine that would come back on us.


DB - I empathize with you. My brother wasn't quite that bad, but he's been a user for many years. He no longer lives with us, but he's unemployed again and living off his oldest son and family. It's sad to have family members like this.

Important piece of advice - *Get that laptop wiped as soon as possible*. If she's been on porn sites or some of those adult chats, it's likely that computer has one or more viruses. Also, those sites are known to be watched by law enforcement. That's how they catch people sharing things like kiddy porn. The bad thing is, if she has downloaded things or shared things and such, they can and will track that back to the IP on your machine and when you plug it to your network connection again, it can cause problems for you - big time.

Just a piece of advice. I work for the computer forensics team at a public University. We see things like that happen quite often and sometimes the person it gets tracked back to is completely innocent. Either their computer has been borrowed, hacked or stolen or their IP has been stolen and rerouted. Better to be safe than sorry.

My thoughts are with you as you try to disconnect from her. :grouphug:


----------

