# Heirloom tomatoes won't set fruit.



## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

Why do I have such poor luck with heirloom tomatoes? Are they that much harder to grow? The first time, I tried several varieties from seed, but never got a tomato. This year, I bought a started plant, as well as a Better Boy. The heirloom is a nice big plant with plenty of blossoms, but no tomatoes. Meanwhile, I had Better Boys for lunch today. I'm starting to see why heirlooms have been relegated to just that- heirlooms.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

I grow only heirlooms an always have.
Pollination may be your trouble. (as we are but a few miles apart)
I make sure to plant my garden heavily with catnip, bee balm, lemon balm, hyssop etc.. that bring the pollinators in droves.
They start on my catnip (planted at the end of the rows) and just move on to the tomato blossoms. 
This evening, when it 'cools' down a bit, see if you ahve any activity on your tomatoes. You may need to give the plants some shakes to pollinate them yourself.
Not a hard shake, but more like a vibration.


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## Use Less (Nov 8, 2007)

Don't know, except what chick. said. Pretty much every heirloom I've tried has done fine. I didn't get many tomatoes off a Kellogg's orange breakfast and a green stripey, but some of the ones I got weighed 1/2 and 3/4 pounds. Do you plant your tomatoes in a block to help wiht pollinating? Sue


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

Mush, only thing I know is that the night temps effect them a lot. Til this season I had good luck w them here (So. LA), but this has been our hottest spring/June ever, and I got none. A few miles away, they did fine, tho.


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## frankva (May 21, 2009)

Threaten them with scissors.

Brandywine has a reputation here on the coast of Maine for very limited fruit. What variety is giving you issues?

I got talked into trying Better Boy this year. What is your opinion?


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

My experience with tomatoes not setting fruit is the the day time temps hovering in the mid 90's on up. Night time temp may also play a big part. I do hand pollenate also.


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

Day temps above 95 and night temps above 70 will affect fruit set. You might want to try and spray something on the plants that will attract pollinators. Have been told that fishoil emulsion will draw several types of flies. My early heirlooms had many green bottle flies on the blossoms.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Over the years I have found that my heirlooms aren't really bothered by the heat the way determinants are.
If they didn't set fruit in over 90* weather I would never, ever, ever have a tomato.
Mine bloom and set fruit all summer and everyday is above 90*. And they keep setting fruit until frost.


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## teachermom44 (Feb 8, 2012)

I planted hybrids and heirlooms this year. All are big bushes, but the hybrids started to fruit a lot faster than the heirloom. I can't keep the heirloom propped up either, but it FINALLY started to fruit. My heirlooms just keep getting yellow leaves on the bottom.


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

Controlling Blossom Drop of Tomatoes


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

The term "heirloom" has nothing to do with setting fruit. Variety and environment are what determines when any tomato plant sets fruit. I have at least 4 varieties currently with ripe or ripening fruit and none are hybrids. There are non-hybrid varieties which may be 60 days and varieties which may be over 100. Can't expect a 100-day variety to be setting fruit after 60. 

Martin


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## hippygirl (Apr 3, 2010)

Started and grew heirlooms for the first time this year...Cherokee Purple, Amish Paste, Arkansas Traveler, and Coustralee. Other than skirmishes with Early Blight, they're doing great. Will be picking a bushel or so in the morning.


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## rockhound (Sep 25, 2009)

Arkansas Traveler isn't an heirloom tomato, sorry. It's a much newer introduction by the U of Ark.


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

The variety is German Johnson, bought at a big box store. I don't know if its actually an heirloom, although it claims to be. I planted in mid-April, with plants that were already flowering. Night time temps have ranged from 35 to 75, with most nights being in the mid 60's.

The one problem I had was with the soil. I'm camping on my property while I build a house, so I put in a tiny 4X8' raised bed garden just for fun. I bought cheap 'topsoil' and composted manure, but after watering, I noticed both products looked like fine wood chips. All of the plants, including beans and herbs turned horribly yellow. My theory is that the wood chips aren't fully composted, so they sucked up the available nitrogen. Some fertilizer quickly cleared that up, although all of my 'crops' are weak and small. The heirloom tomato is much bigger than the Better Boy, and has been flowering the whole time, but no fruit.


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

MushCreek said:


> and has been flowering the whole time, but no fruit.


Have you felt of the bloom after the yellow petals have dropped to see if there is a bump/knot in there?


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

rockhound said:


> Arkansas Traveler isn't an heirloom tomato, sorry. It's a much newer introduction by the U of Ark.


33 years ago isn't exactly "newer". Especially so since it is as old or older than the "heirloom" designation when applied to vegetables.

Martin


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

MushCreek said:


> The variety is German Johnson, bought at a big box store. I don't know if its actually an heirloom, although it claims to be. I planted in mid-April, with plants that were already flowering. Night time temps have ranged from 35 to 75, with most nights being in the mid 60's.


It's probably twice as old as the "heirloom" designation for vegetables. Thought to be one of the parents of Mortgage Lifter which was introduced in the 1930s. Shortest DTM I find is 80 days. 

Fruit set is contingent on various factors. One is temperature since pollen of most varieties will melt at around 80ÂºF. Another is requiring a root system capable of supporting a fruit. If it's a raised bed comprised only of what material was brought in, and worthless soil under that, it's in need of a liquid fertilizer with a ratio of about 1-1-2 like Tomato Tone. But with just one plant, more expense than it's worth. 

Martin


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## frankva (May 21, 2009)

What do you consider the definition of a heirloom tomato or vegetable?

I know Straight 8 cucumbers were AAS winners way back, but I think of them as an old standby, not anything so fancy as "heirloom."

Semantics, but curious.

Around here heirloom = marketing. Open pollinated is the term I use when talking to people so I don't sound like a summer person.


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

frankva said:


> Around here heirloom = marketing. Open pollinated is the term I use when talking to people so I don't sound like a summer person.


Same with "organically grown seed". Pure marketing.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

frankva said:


> What do you consider the definition of a heirloom tomato or vegetable?


There is no official definition. It was first used by Kent Whealy in an SSE fund-raising speech in the late 1970s. He borrowed the term from a book about old bean varieties. What is and what is not accepted as an "heirloom" is up to whomever decides that they want to be in charge of determining such status at the moment. Therefore if I decide that my Paquebot Roma is an "heirloom", nobody can dispute it since it falls within the same guidelines as existed prior to the use of such a designation. 

Martin


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Ky-Jeeper said:


> I like the idea of saving seeds from my two heirloom tomatoes, but the hybrids won hands down in the heat this summer. Should I treat the heirlooms any differently?


Growing demands for every tomato variety are the same. Production differences, under identical conditions, are determined by whatever the variety is genetically programmed to produce. I know of some old ones which will out-produce any hybrid but not perfectly round or blemish-free as most hybrids are. Research what a variety is before deciding if it's one which suits your needs. If it's only a certain hybird variety which fits all of your needs, only grow that one as few others would ever satisfy you. 

Martin


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

I would like to know of the high yielding heirlooms even if their irregular or blemished if you don't mind sharing.? A knife and a little extra time is better than a low yielding tomato patch anyday. I didn't know for sure if heirlooms needed anything different, now I know.



Thanks, Ky-Jeeper.



Paquebot said:


> Growing demands for every tomato variety are the same. Production differences, under identical conditions, are determined by whatever the variety is genetically programmed to produce. I know of some old ones which will out-produce any hybrid but not perfectly round or blemish-free as most hybrids are. Research what a variety is before deciding if it's one which suits your needs. If it's only a certain hybird variety which fits all of your needs, only grow that one as few others would ever satisfy you.
> 
> Martin


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## Old Swampgirl (Sep 28, 2008)

Ky-Jeeper, You should try a few of several heirlooms to see which ones do best for your area. For me, Aunt Ruby's Green are the best tasting. They are huge plants, indeterminate, but are worth it. Fedco seed co. is a good place for cheaper prices on heirloom seeds.


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

I'm going to try saving some of these German Johnson seeds. They are the best tasting tomato I've had in many years, if not ever. Now that they are getting big, the plants are prolific. I did some research, and this variety is popular in the southeast, liking very hot weather.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Ky-Jeeper said:


> I would like to know of the high yielding heirlooms even if their irregular or blemished if you don't mind sharing.? A knife and a little extra time is better than a low yielding tomato patch anyday. I didn't know for sure if heirlooms needed anything different, now I know.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, Ky-Jeeper.


Been pondering this question ever since it was posed. Usually such ends up with someone wanting to know the ultimate single variety and that ain't going to happen. I could tell you that the ultimate slicer/canner/juicer is Wisconsin 55 or anything descended from it and be right. But saucer is missing there. One could say that that does not matter unless you're going to cook it down over a wood stove and no A/C in the house. Thus there is no perfect all-around tomato but Wisconsin 55 was one of the last non-hybrid created for that purpose.

For a slicer, just about any true oxheart is better than any beefsteak. Picked some Tsar-Kolokol the other day and every one perfect. Few seeds in locules arranged around the edge with solid interior and no core. Drawback is that a lot of the oxhearts are low on overall numbers. Advantage is that there are few which can't produce a few 1# or better fruit. With so many of that type being very similar, hard to pick the best but African Queen and Japanese Oxheart would be close to the top with fruit pushing 2# or more.

Canners are probably 50% of all varieties and are those ranging in size from 2" to 4". Small ones are canned whole and bigger ones halved or quartered. I haven't grown the ultimate one for a few years but grew enough to know that nothing can beat Money Maker or Hellfrucht. One can get 25# off a single plant under good conditions but you'd have to cope with trying to control a massive sprawling plant. Nothing will ever beat those and that includes an awful lot of varieties worldwide.

Juicers are those tomatoes which I tell people that they're just slicers which require a sharper knife. When you see "utility" in the description, it means that they can be used for a lot of things but need a lot extra work unless made into juice. I can be a fairly good judge of if a variety is good for juice when I start processing seeds. If I've got half of a tomato in my hand and squeeze it over a pint container and the seeds come gushing out, I've got a potential juicer. But that's only half of what determines it. That liquid may be sweet, sour, or neutral. It's amazing at how much difference there may be in taste between what's in the seed locules as versus the actually flesh of the fruit. To find that, squeeze everything out and then taste only the pure flesh. I've only found one juicy variety where both the juice and flesh combined for what I thought was perfect juice and that was Pink Ruffled. It's deeply pleated and can't be peeled and with production which I've seldom seen in any variety. Wasn't a one-time fluke as I was requested to grow it again for several friends and results were the same. That's my ultimate juicer.

Last main crop type is saucer. For centuries, main thing was that they contain few seeds and thus little water. Production was important, taste wasn't. Object was to get the fruit from the plant to a thick sauce with the minimum of processing time. And when the minimum may mean 24 hours or more under conditions much harsher than now, didn't matter if the fruit were hard as rocks and barely in liquid form as soon as cooking began. After all, they were merely a base for the basil, garlic, onions, oregano, and other spices. Didn't matter since the last thing that one could taste would be the tomatoes. Well, despite looking for that perfect saucer for closing on 15 years, I don't think that it exists. I can find fault in every one of them including my own. Some are prolific but small. Some are huge but scarce. Those with good taste usually don't produce well. Prolific ones often lack taste. Paquebot Roma is sort of a class by itself. Can produce like the Devil is after it and then quit since it's 100% determinate. Possible fault is that it tastes just like most other Roma types while making a very red sauce. I've grown most of the major Romas and if I had to narrow it down to one it would be my Paquebot Roma.

Finally, all of the above subject to change after I get done reviewing the 60 or so new varieties just ripening now.

Martin


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## frankva (May 21, 2009)

I have WI55, Pink Ruffled, and Paquebot Roma going.

I think the review was quite good.

I also think climate/geography/palate plays a role in what works for you.

For a slicing red tomato, I will always grow Guido. It is larger and more unruly than WI55, but I do like it.


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## Yellowmug (Aug 7, 2012)

MushCreek said:


> I'm going to try saving some of these German Johnson seeds. They are the best tasting tomato I've had in many years, if not ever. Now that they are getting big, the plants are prolific. I did some research, and this variety is popular in the southeast, liking very hot weather.


Interesting. We liked the German Johnson's but don't love them. I wonder if it is because I am in the southeast but around 2500 ft elevation and we have much cooler weather than down below us. They were pretty and tasted good, but a couple of them have been a little mealy.


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

Bear in mind that I have never had an heirloom that I know of. When I was a kid in CT, we usually grew Big Boy or something like that. I've lived in FL for 32 years, and good, really good tomatoes are unavailable there. I grew Better Boy as well as the German Johnson, and I thought the Better Boy was outstanding, until the Johnsons came in. So my frame of reference is small.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Big Boy has been around a lot longer than many so-called "heirloom" varieties. If there were ever a list of heirloom hybrids, Big Boy would have to be the first to be considered since it was indeed the first. It was introduced in 1949 and still one of the most popular tomato varieties ever produced.

Martin


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'll print that post out and keep on hand for next years garden.


Paquebot said:


> Been pondering this question ever since it was posed. Usually such ends up with someone wanting to know the ultimate single variety and that ain't going to happen. I could tell you that the ultimate slicer/canner/juicer is Wisconsin 55 or anything descended from it and be right. But saucer is missing there. One could say that that does not matter unless you're going to cook it down over a wood stove and no A/C in the house. Thus there is no perfect all-around tomato but Wisconsin 55 was one of the last non-hybrid created for that purpose.
> 
> For a slicer, just about any true oxheart is better than any beefsteak. Picked some Tsar-Kolokol the other day and every one perfect. Few seeds in locules arranged around the edge with solid interior and no core. Drawback is that a lot of the oxhearts are low on overall numbers. Advantage is that there are few which can't produce a few 1# or better fruit. With so many of that type being very similar, hard to pick the best but African Queen and Japanese Oxheart would be close to the top with fruit pushing 2# or more.
> 
> ...


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