# issues with electric company



## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

I am building a home this summer. I would like it 500 foot back from the road. I want underground wire. Not only is it WAY cheaper its hidden. The electric company insists if I go underground I need a transformer by the house on a pad, which I have to buy. I understand why, a 200 Amp service, I will have quite a voltage drop at that distance. I really dont want an above ground transformer. IF I go overhead lines its 25$ a foot plus. 

I found an oil free residential burial transformer. 

http://www2.dupont.com/Media_Center/en_US/daily_news/april/article20100421.html

Is anyone familiar with this? Have you ever ran an underground line this far? what size wire did you use and did you have to put a transformer at the end? Did you have buriable wire or go through conduit?


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

You can either buy the power at the first pole on you property, using a pole mounted service, with a meter and disconnect, and do what you want with it, or follow their rules to run power 500' to your location. You seem to understand voltage drop. If they are doing it their way, voltage drop is meaningless. You are paying for the power from the meter in. They eat the cost of voltage drop. I have found that most power companies are unbelievably rigid in their methods. You either follow their specific specifications for the job, as reviewed by their field engineer, or they don't give you power. I doubt that you will be able to specify a transformer that you prefer to use. This would have a whole bunch of potential issues involved for them. Not the least of which would be servicing the unit. If their transformer fails, they grab one from their yard and swap it out. Typically they have acres of gravel storage area with all kinds and sizes of transformers on hand. If you had a specialty transformer that failed, it might take weeks for a replacement to be manufactured and shipped. In some cases, particularly in light industrial applications, you can buy medium voltage (4160 volts, or a similar voltage, which is what would be heading to your transformer) from the company and supply your own wiring, transformer and distribution system. I doubt that they would be willing to go along with this in a typical residential application, or that you would want to spend a huge amount to do your end of this type of installation. When dealing with utilities it pretty much is their ball, their ball field and their umpire. They write their own rules and answer to very few. Good luck. 

BTW, in my experience, you really are not "buying" a transformer in this application. You are subsidizing the installation, at a cost set by the utility. The last few I have done have been roughly $1100. this is for the high voltage cable, transformer pad, transformer and all labor. $1100 is a fraction of the total job cost. I provided trenching, clean sand and back-filling. Certainly the details of your situation my vary, but this is what was required from a few different utility providers here in Eastern Pa.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Depending on the customer, some electric utilities are very happy to have the customer own the transformer and assume repsonsibility for it. You can build an underground vault. I suspect the utility is going to be very picky about the construction. Likewise you'll need buried conduit and a way of handling any water that gets in from condensation or flooding. Using conduit leaves you options for the future. 

It's much easier to go with a pole mount transformer (utility's responsibility) and pay for the size cable that minimizes the voltage drop. It'll be expensive. It can save you big bucks in the future if the transformer blows. Size the cable and check with supply houses for a price.

Compare that with building a waterproof underground vault and buying a transformer.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

tiogacounty has covered the major points well. I suggest that you may be underestimating the costs of underground. In our case I had to dig the trench, supply the 2" conduit, buy the wire from the power company, install it, and have them approve it all.

It IS their ballgame, exactly as tiogacounty explained. Frankly, I wouldn't want it any other way. Major infrastructure must have consistency and verified repeatable engineering.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

Don't know where you got your $$ figures, farmgal, but in SD a buried power line runs TWICE the cost of an overhead line and that includes the poles, wire, and transformer which were at NO cost with overhead lines versus close to $6000 for buried line for the same 1500' distance from the nearest existing pole.


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

goatlady said:


> Don't know where you got your $$ figures, farmgal, but in SD a buried power line runs TWICE the cost of an overhead line and that includes the poles, wire, and transformer which were at NO cost with overhead lines versus close to $6000 for buried line for the same 1500' distance from the nearest existing pole.


 Trying to compare. or make sense of, utility company cost structure is a lot like trying to nail jello to the side of a barn. AND, it can change from one year to the next. Installations are even more fun ....... you can read the specs. do exactly what the field engineer wants, and have the install crew ask, "why the heck did you do that". 
I recently had a long battle with a jackaxe field engineer from a Jersey power company. I was replacing a house that burned. I needed to add a few feet to the underground service cables. He refused to cooperate. I offered many logical, safe, code approved solutions...nope, he was in charge and he was gonna' prove it. (Short guy, fake logger style hard hat, tiny little.....well you know the type, LOL) Anyway his solution was to cut a few hundred feet of trees down and replace everything, in a new trench at around $6K. After a few months of him repeatedly showing up to nag me about when I was going to get started on his proposal, I flipped. I got loud and told him that I need HIM to explain to a retired couple on a fixed income why I need to rob them of $6K because he was too $$%^* stubborn to replace ten feet of burned wire? By then the couple was pulling into the site and the little twit was getting antsy. He said, "if you sign off on any future problems with the splice, go ahead" and he scurried. 
Yea, electric companies can be a real joy some times.


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## littlebitfarm (Mar 21, 2005)

My electric company dropped 2 poles and about 350' of line for free. I wanted an underground line that was gonna run me $2.50 a foot and that was 23 years ago. Am amazed that underground would be cheaper for you!

Kathie


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

goatlady- Did you say they run them at no cost overhead?, ny stinks they only cover the 1st 75 feet. I got my figures from the store and the electric company (for overhead estimates)...lol We dont have blarney rock here, just trench n go. I can see how it can be more expensive there underground. I love SD. I take my motorcycle every year to Sturgis. It is soo beautiful, can I visit? I will do chores..lol 

I am not subcontracting anything except a few items. I can dig a trench and lay wire. Heck, I need to dig a 1500 foot trench to move my gaswell line to the new place. 

I can get by with 3$ a foot in materials for underground (just wire and conduit costs). Who knows the price may go up by the day, at the way the economy is going. I do have real prices, I didnt just invent them. At 3$ a foot at 500 foot, thats 1500$ in materials (we do the work ourselves) At 25$ a foot above ground, at 500 foot thats $12,500 just for the line. I dont see the transformer being that much.. but I will find out soon and let you know what happens. When they say "bury able", I would guess they are like a septic, an access door, with a little digging to reach it. 

My cousin told me today he had to install 2 more transformers for the electric car he bought his dad and he said those were $1100 each. 

I am so sick of being close to the road. The house I sold that went with this property was right against the road and the land(farm) was across the street. Many farms here are like that. We want to be far back. The view we like best is 500 foot back. If I had to go above ground, I could barely budget in 300 foot back. 

tioga- The electric company wont sell me it at the pole and do as I please. If I go underground, I must buy my own transformer and have it placed on a cement pad closer to the house, thats what they told me. I see what you mean if the transformer has issues they can grab another of theirs, but I have to buy my own they said(to go under). They do not sell them to me, I have to find my own supplier. So I found this supplier and dupont is a big name. I guess if it dies, it will be my problem. lol It better not...did you jinx me now?...lol...


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## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

holy crap I can't understand how it cost 25$ a foot to go over head. last year when I had our elctric ran in I got 150ft for free and then another 150ft for 50$ which was enough for me but if I would have needed more would have been 3 somthing a ft. I had to set one pole for the meter and then just the meter base. The power company did have to put in another transformer but it is all there cost and not on my property. Man 25$ a ft that is robbery to me.


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## rancher1913 (Dec 5, 2008)

remember transformers can and do fail. can you be without power wile you wait for a replacement for yours---could be weeks or months if it is special order. power company has like kind in stock and if its theirs they fix it quickly. we own our transformers at work and have had to use a generator at several buildings for months untill the special transformer could get there. even had to change lugs that shorted out--involves pumping oil out and in and lots of expensive knowhow. don't save a penny now only to spend a pound later.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Where we live we paid for every inch of the distant. Here is what bugged and still bugs me the ele place two concrete pads and two trans formers on what they thought were place across the road only problem is it was not a road it is my driveway. My driveway is an L shape deal and on the long part they plan on providing ele to the folks across from my house. Which is silly because it it all ONE large parcel. Price tag $22,748.12 but I was told that I would get 25 percent back if the folks across the street sign up for ele in 10 years. It is one Parcel I own it duh............................


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## Limbic Acres (Aug 26, 2009)

I connected to grid power, 300 ft with NYSEG. I ran into the same issues. 

They mailed me a contract and $1.oo for the lease of the land where poles would be. I called them and said the over all cost was too much. They asked if I would meet with a Line Engineer. I did. This guy redid the Layout and new how to make things work. In the end I got the poles and like and transformer put in for almost 1/2 the original estimate. When the Line Crew was working out there they told me that "Agriculutre Zoning" made the difference in my case.

That was several years ago though


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## EstrogenHostage (Apr 13, 2011)

They are right - 500' is too far for low voltage line. You need to keep their high voltage line through the conduit to the house or you'll end up with cables the size of your thigh to keep from an unacceptable voltage drop. I am going to go 350' on the house I am doing this summer and I am doubling the cable size at a cost of over $1000 extra because they want $10k to run underground to the house. Who knows why - it is what it is. 

Are you going all electric or will you have propane or oil heat and water?


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## wind power (Sep 29, 2010)

With the grid I'm on, the power company is like everyone else...they have absolute control. They will bury a line up too 200 feet ( off the record plus or minus a bit more) for free. They will run it overhead for free...the distance I dont know but I have never heard of anyone complain about the cost if any...I know this is no help here for you.

However, if the power company will not sell you a transformer, I would still stay in close contact with them as to what, and if any, they would reccomend. You dont want them denying service hook up after you shelled out a few bucks....you might also want to pick up the phone and ask the local building code folks for advice on transformer requirements on this too....thus you have all the bases covered on the backside so no surprises hit you at the last min. They might have issudes with a transformer of "Brand X" or a kung-fu import etc etc

Power companies are your local dictators...

I built a wind turbine, there is probably no way they would let me grid tie a home brew contraption even if I had made the stator for a grid tieing inverter. So I simply make the power and dump it into batteries and use switch gear to make it safe for the power company/code concerns


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