# LGD Rescues



## equinecpa (Mar 21, 2011)

I'd like to get a LGD for my small herd of sheep and chickens. Has anyone had any luck with Rescues? I worry about them straying as I imagine that's how a lot end up in rescue. Of course I'd keep it penned up and out only under supervision for the first while so that it'd learn this was home but I thought I'd pick your brains for thoughts? What would you look for in a rescue with regard to age, sex (it'll be spayed/neutered) , temperament)?

Thanks

Carolyn


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Honestly, LGDs work best when you get them as puppies rather than older dogs. You want your dog to bond with the herds when it is a young puppy. If you want a working LGD, I wouldn't choose a rescue as my first choice. If you want a pet, then that's different.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

I tried the rescue thing one time. You're better off raising a puppy in the environment where it will live.


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## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

I am going to comment about the statement about wandering and why they end up in rescue. Yes, if someone is stupid enough to think that it is a good idea to have a LGD on a piece of unfenced (or poorly fenced) property then they can and will expand their territory. Because of that some end up in rescue. However I think the bulk that end up in rescue were either dogs that were originally placed in pet type homes that were not suitable for that dog or they should have been placed in pet homes and were placed in working homes and got into trouble. 

Not every LGD is cut out to be a a working livestock guardian dog and for some they are in fact better off as companion dogs. But when I read most of the blurbs on the ASD rescue lists to me it sounds like people who had no idea how to start a puppy right as a good working dog have screwed it up, now it is a teenager and chasing stock or worse and so they dump it in rescue. Or some city person got one and now the neighbors are ----ed because the dog barks at them all the time when they leave the house, do yard work, the trash man comes to pick up, the meter reader comes to read the meter, etc.

I agree, truly you are better off getting a pup and doing it right to start with.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

My experience with a PYR rescue group was that they expected me to have a fenced-in backyard for the dog to live in. This defeated the purpose of having a LGD. Older dogs may have already formed some bad habits, where puppies are probably more trainable. PYRS are night barkers and they tend to want to wander, and many people complain about that. That is just part of their makeup.


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## Kshobbit (May 14, 2002)

I got my LGD from the Anatolian Shepard rescue organization over 10 years ago. He was 9 months old and grew up running the suburbs of Dallas. He is awesome! He messed with the chickens at first but got into so much trouble that he left them alone. I have a Great Pyr/Anatolian puppy with us hoping the old dog will help teach the new dog all the things he does so well.


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

I used rescued Pyrs for my LGDs for quite a few years after my first Pyr from a BYB decided that he needed to kill all of us. I wanted to know what I was getting temperament-wise. I don't regret using rescues at all. I also fostered Pyrs and never had problems with them going after my birds. That said, we had a perimeter fence around the LGD and all the bird pens. I was raising Call ducks which were tiny, vulnerable and "sitting ducks" should the Pyr decide they would be fun to play with. Many of the birds were worth $100/each so I really couldn't afford to have the LGD playing with them. Until I knew the dogs and how they would react, the birds were kept penned within the LGD enclosure. Once I had worked with the dog under close supervision and felt comfortable with how it would react around the birds, then they were allowed more access to the inner enclosures and I'd also let some of the less expensive birds roam their pen. More expensive birds were in covered pens to protect them from hawks and such, not that I was afraid the Pyrs would do anything to them. 

The first Pyr I got came from a rescue that had an LGD foster farm to evaluate the dogs. Dogs were evaluated for the best fit and those that seemed more suited to LGD work were fostered on the farm around sheep, poultry, etc to see how they would handle them and whether or not they would make a good LGD. Some also stayed on a bit longer to be trained by an older LGD. 

By the time I was looking for another, that first rescue didn't have that foster farm program available any longer. Not that they didn't want it, but there weren't enough people willing to do that kind of fostering and the one person was burned out. I found another rescue close to me that was willing to place dogs in working homes though it was not her area of expertise and she didn't have anyone else helping her that could do it either. I basically told her what I was looking for in a dog and let her chose one that she thought met all the criteria. He was an absolute gem of a dog! He was a fabulous LGD. Actually, so was our first. 

What I was looking for was a neutered male, but the females I fostered were also very good with the birds. I wanted one that was at least 2 yrs old, preferably 3 to get past that puppy stage. I wanted a dog that liked to be outdoors, that had the guarding instincts, that was relatively calm and quiet and didn't have a high prey drive. I had talked to someone about one that tried to chase down and attack a crow in the yard. That didn't seem like a good idea to me. Basically, try to get a good mental picture of your ideal LGD, describe that to someone with a solid picture of the dog you are looking at (like the one actually fostering the dog) and then keep asking lots of questions. Where are you located? I may be able to steer you to or around some rescues depending on where you are.


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## equinecpa (Mar 21, 2011)

How about mixes? I read the other thread here where it's not a good idea to get a guardian dog crossed with a herding breed-I can see that might be an issue, but how about crossed with something like a retriever or a golden? There are some young pups in a shelter that I'd like to visit with that are guessed to be (and look like) a pyr/retriever cross.

What attributes do you look for when picking a guardian puppy? Is a little stand offish a good thing in a guardian pup or do you go with the outgoing one? Playful or the pup that sits and watches everything...


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

You want the shyest puppy there for a LGD. Play can equal prey drive.


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

Personally, I would never want a shy or fearful dog. Rather, I'd want one that was calm and confident. Here's a puppy temperament test that might give you some insight into what to look for:

http://www.tiarapoodles.com/temperament.html


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## Kshobbit (May 14, 2002)

My Great Pyr/Anatolian puppy plays, but she watches everything. She learns quickly well except for the eating of my shoes but she doesn't do that anymore. At six months old, she is almost as tall as my male Anatolian Shepard. I want her to come to me and to mind me. I am pack leader.


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## equinecpa (Mar 21, 2011)

I've done puppy testing before on Australian Shepherds but I believe we're looking for different traits - or aren't we?


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

stay away from a cross .... it is a crap shoot... unless the crosses are LGD to LGD (usually done with a male Anatolian and Female Pyr because Anatolians are so expensive $800-1,500 and Pyrs can be purchased for $50 and up).

There is a difference between a Rescue and a Rehome.

A rescue is found in a pound or animal shelter different areas call them different things. Some are Kill shelters others aren't. There is no background on the dogs. These dogs need to be observed and a determination as to whether they are LGD or pets or too darn scary to be placed. The application and interview is to make sure this dog has a forever home.

A Rehome is a dog(s) that the owner has had to move from a farm to the city or lost their husband/wife, or situations has changed. They turn the dog over to a rescue to be placed in an environment similar to their own. You are able to talk to the original owner and get insight into the dogs personality.


As for the Temperament Testing, They are pretty much the same. If you wanted a working dog test it is here
http://www.workingdogs.com/testing_volhard.htm

compare it to the previous link and you will see the test is the same. there are other breed specific temperament tests and again they are all the same.

It is the best test there is for testing the potential of what this puppy will be as adult dog.

If you have never had a LGD, this is your first... start with a puppy especially if you have children or people come onto your farm to buy livestock. A puppy in this circumstance must be socialized. With a rescue you can't be sure what they will do with children running around the yard playing, will construe this as predatory behavior or not.

If you are interested in a rescue, you will fill out an application, you will talk with the rescue people on the phone, a person may or may not depending on the rescue will make a home visit to see if you actually qualify. they will be mainly looking at fencing and the world they will be in. If you qualify, then a dog is chosen based on your needs. 
As mentioned earlier, these rescue dogs are tested. An example; If you have a cat and the dog is found not to like cats, that dog will not be placed with you.

w.


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## equinecpa (Mar 21, 2011)

After much consideration I decided to opt for a rescue. There are so many pyr and pyr crosses in the shelters here in Texas it's not funny. I decided that adopting an adult of unknown background would be too risky so searched for a young dog or pup. I could have easily bought a pyr/anatolian mix locally for about $50.00 but I really don't want to encourage people breeding mixes and selling them.

Last Saturday I drove 2 1/2 hours to a shelter that had some possible candidates -a couple of pyr/golden crosses. I filled out an application but my jaw dropped when they said they'd let me know in a couple of days if I was approved. Another 5 hours of driving? No way. I'd called earlier to find out hours etc and let them know I was coming from a ways but they neglected to tell me that they wouldn't be able to do any adoptions on the Saturday as the person who approves them was out at an adoptathon. 

On the way up I had seen an animal shelter sign in the previous town, and decided to drop in on the way home. This shelter has little city funding and basically is animal control for the city. The one employee is a very dedicated lady and trys her best to find homes for as many as she can. They don't provide any health services to the dogs -they feed them, shelter them and that's it. They don't have funding to do more. 

They weren't open but I did spot a cute pup that looked to be a lab/pyr cross. It was with its Mom a lab cross and definitely looked to have a pyr daddy. I emailed the officer in charge and she called me Monday. I told her I'd love to give the pup a chance but really didn't want to drive that far again. She made arrangements with some volunteers to meet me half way and so on Thursday I picked up the new pup.

He was very scared and didn't want to come out of his crate when we got home, but soon warmed up. The first think on the agenda was a bath. He was filthy and covered in fleas and ticks. I didn't think I'd ever get him clean. Into our muck bucket he went and emerged an hour or so later much better looking.

I have been penning him with my sheep each day and he is wonderful. He has slipped right into his role. I'm amazed to watch a dog so young take his duties so seriously. He watches them all day and when let loose will go lie amongst them, lick on them and then go lay down again. The sheep readily accept him even the wilder ewe will let him come right up to her. 

His only fault so far is wanting to occasionally play with our eight week old bottle lamb. If she doesn't run he's fine but if she runs he wants to play. I've scolded him a couple of times and he's settled right down.

I really am looking forward to watching this dog develop. I found the instincts fascinating especially after being around herding breeds all of my life.

Here is a picture of the pup supervising his herd (note he's only let loose when I'm able to supervise..just in case)


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

equinecpa said:


> I could have easily bought a pyr/anatolian mix locally for about $50.00 but I really don't want to encourage people breeding mixes and selling them.


Good luck with your dog. I'm glad it is going well.
Mixing working breeds is often done, and it is acceptable. They are all LGDs. It's not about showing them, it's about their work qualities. Mixing working dog breeds of various types is done often, and highly acceptable. Belgian x GSD, pyr x anatolian, or whatever type of working dog cross when they are used for the same work is done to increase drives. It's not bad at all.

[ame]http://www.google.com/search?q=crossing+working+breeds+to+increase+drive&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=RDB&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&source=hp&q=crossing+working+breed+dogs+to+increase+drive&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=a34f7f1872f21971&biw=1280&bih=598[/ame]


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## equinecpa (Mar 21, 2011)

> Mixing working breeds is often done, and it is acceptable. They are all LGDs. It's not about showing them, it's about their work qualities. Mixing working dog breeds of various types is done often, and highly acceptable. Belgian x GSD, pyr x anatolian, or whatever type of working dog cross when they are used for the same work is done to increase drives. It's not bad at all.


I guess I should have elaborated, it's not the breeding of mixed LGD's I didn't like ..I called this fellow to inquire. Does he give puppy shots -no, wormed -no, parents hips checked -no. So basically he has a male and female dog (both of which were pyr/anatolian mixes themselves) he lets breed because he figures he can make a quick buck on the offspring.

Had he answered differently, my opinion would have been different. Incidentally he was firm on the price -even though he hadn't put anything into these pups.


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

Looks like you made a good pick! I hope he works out well for you!


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

westbrook said:


> A Rehome is a dog(s) that the owner has had to move from a farm to the city or lost their husband/wife, or situations has changed. They turn the dog over to a rescue to be placed in an environment similar to their own. You are able to talk to the original owner and get insight into the dogs personality.


This is exactly how I got my Akbash dog, except that I was able to get him just before he was put into rescue. He has worked out wonderfully. If you can get a dog from this type of situation, go for it. You get a dog that is already used to guarding stock, the dog is happy, you are happy, and life gets better for everyone.


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