# Government Invaders



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Today the local township sent two little high school girls out to my home armed with a digital camera and an official looking form.

It seems they wish to update the property records because the township is "going computerized" and they need to make sure photos and accurate measurements are in the system. I asked how this would benefit me and they stated that anytime I needed the square footage of my shed, barn, or home I could just look it up online. 

I asked them to provide the legal statute for this and (being two young interns who are probably the nieces of the local assessor) they got confused. I told them I'd call the assessor myself and reschedule and they left.

Upon calling the assessor I was again told that this "is the law and I must comply" but nobody in the entire office could actually tell me which law is being referenced. 

I don't really care to have the government taking and storing photos of my livestock facilities, storage sheds, or even worse ... touring the inside of my house. This is usually how they work too ... first they send pleasant people who don't know anything, then when you resist they try to compel you with threats of the force of law, and finally if you continue to resist you get the not-so-pleasant thugs in uniform. 

We're doing a lot of things here the government would consider "non-standard". From untagged livestock to a non-sanctioned chicken coop to barrels of grain stored in the basement, I don't really want them poking their invasive little noses in my business with a camera. 

How do you resist this? It's certainly not a situation where you take up violent arms and repel two teenage interns with a shotgun, but how do you fend off a government who thinks they have a right to know, record, and categorize everything about you even though they can't find a law that authorizes them to do so?


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## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

Is there a local paper that might take up your cause? Perhaps a calling circle.
The authorities are like vampires. They are pleasant enough until you are isolated, then they suck the lifeblood out of you and try to turn you into one of them to do their bidding. Their enemy is the light of day.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

It is a tad un-nerving.

"Backyard Scofflaws Found on Earth -- Google Earth"
Snip"A town on New York's Long Island is using Google Earth to find backyard pools that don't have the proper permits."

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/08/02/google-earth-license-pools-riverhead/
Matt


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Our town did property abatements a few years back, the notice came in the mail and stated that we did not need to allow assessors into our home BUT assumptions would be made and the only way to correct any incorrect assumptions were to allow officials in to inspect....sheds were measured etc. (we had enlarged 3 shed and built 2 plus added a sunroom onto the house without permits) but because most sheds had goats or chickens or rabbits there was no add'l value assigned and no fines were issued for the sunroom (its unheated and where a deck was). I let the woman in and our taxes went down. I was very cooperative and let her feed a calf while she was here....

Put your dogs in the basement and let them roar....it's likely they'll take your word over dealing with slobbering vicious dogs.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

It's just more than a little frightening how you NEVER find anyone in government who agrees with you when you say something is none of their business. To them, EVERYTHING is their business and if you don't want it to be their business then you must be a criminal hiding something.

You have to figure out how to respond in just the proper way so that they leave you alone but yet you don't bubble up on someone else's radar. I know from experience that the government likes to retaliate. The tax assessor who you offended today has a friend over in the CPS office and next thing you know you've got the sheriff and child protection workers showing up at your door demanding private interviews with your children.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Heh.

They do flyovers here and take aerial photos, in very clear detail......much closer than Google or Mapquest. I learned this when we recently went to the appraisal office to dispute the increased property value they'd slammed us with. DH & I just looked at each other when they brought images up on the computer.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Yup, aerial photos here, too. They can do measurements off them. Found lots of the photos in a book that the nice company had that was preparing to put a very large utility line across most of out property had. They had everything to scale and the potential line marked out very neatly. Funny thing was, they forgot to contact us about the fact they intended to take a very, very large chunk of our property to do such. Detail was amazing. (Good thing dh wasn't out peeing when the pics were taken. He's very modest.) 
Sorry for the sarcasm but, no help to your issue. Be glad you at least were asked to begin with. Never forget the day, long time ago, I looked out and a carload of old farts were getting out and checking all of our buildings with a tape measure. They were rude and noxious and that was back before I decided I could stand up for myself. The were there with the local asssessor. Can't remember how that turned out. We moved to different township after that and the assessor here was even worse. He walked into the house of the local mayor and was arressted (!!!!), his alibi of trying to check things out didn't fly, hehehehe. He has since died, the new gal is a lot easier to get along with.


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## debbiekatiesmom (Feb 24, 2009)

can you somehow act like you're never at home when they show up. have guard dogs running around and get by with that?? then what do they do? i guess i just need to know in case that happens here. maybe if the entryway looks really bad they'd not want to enter?? you know, like some of those hoarders of junk n trash on tv? i feel like it's an invasion of privacy. only homeowners are going to get hit. what about all the renters, etc that have personal property, do they not photograph their stuff and invade their homes?? i don't understand i guess. i prefer the aerial photos. i do not want them in my house!


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

Ernie, do you have fence up? Are there signs posted? Dogs patrolling?


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

Tell them that you found a dead bird on your homestead and the place was quarantined until the results came back.

Next time tell them that you have a sick child and you think he might have small pox.

And the next time tell them that you're down with severe back pain and you can't possibly accompany them on a tour of your place and your dogs won't allow an unaccompanied stranger to wander around the place.

When they come again, you greet them with a face mask on and tell them that the dead bird tested positive for bird flu and you don't have enough face masks for them.

And on and on and on . . . .


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

Ernie said:


> *I don't really care* to have the government taking and storing photos of my livestock facilities, storage sheds, or even worse ... touring the inside of my house.
> 
> *I don't really want* them poking their invasive little noses in my business with a camera.


So which one is it? You care or you don't, kinda confusing wording you got there.  :shrug:


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

The aerial pics wouldn't work if the homestead was heavily wooded. They would have to do a ground tour then. When we bought our place in 2002, it just had 3 trees on it. Since then we've added a house with attached garage/workshop, a shed, and a barn. The county assessor's office would stop by and get the details of each new construction for tax purposes. We always complied. They've never asked about our chicken coops or goat houses, though. They're always driving around the county looking for new construction activity.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

Ernie, thay ALREADY have that information on Goggle map aerial stuff. the only way to avoid these people is to live far enough out, up a non county maintained road in Deliverance land. get a fake horror head on a pike on your gate, hang a stinky dead coyote over the gate. im serious make it diffivult to get to--and mud is great, they wont want to sully their jimmi choos


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

If they had that information, why would they send two teenage girls out with a digital camera and measuring tape?


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

Ern, you live in hyper HOA socialist control freak state, what else would you expect????


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

I think the concept of putting young people to work as a government service, during or right after high school; was included in the new health care bill.
It seems that hundreds of thousands of young people will now be spies for the government, as a way to do service for the government.

I am sure that photographs and measurements of your property will be part of the plan. This may just be a warm up. 

It would not surprise me to see hidden listening and watching devices placed here and there as well. I doubt that any computer is private either, now or ever.

These poorly guided, and competence limited children will now draw full paychecks. The hours may be limited so that benefits can be avoided. Then in a year or two they can become full time government observers (spies). They can be properly trained to join the six figure government spy group in just a few short years. The only thing lacking is a little training and a lot of cash. The cash is no problem as the FED is working overtime to take care of that issue.


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

Ernie said:


> If they had that information, why would they send two teenage girls out with a digital camera and measuring tape?


Maybe them girls watched some Girls Gone Wild videos and was hopin' to set you up or something. Teens these days are pretty rowdy... :shrug:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

This is about exactly what I expect. But I'm trying to figure out a way to deal with it that doesn't end up with me paying a large fine or on the 5 o' clock news.

In this situation, I actually do have reason to fear the government.

I have sheep who aren't tagged for scrapies.
I have two outbuildings (chicken coop and a greenhouse) that I didn't seek permits for.
I'm letting various "invasive plant species" grow untended instead of spraying pesticides.
I haven't "voluntarily" submitted my homeschooling records to the local superintendent.
I have beehives that haven't been registered with the county extension office.

And those are just the laws I'm breaking that I KNOW about. Now I'm somewhat saved by the fact that the county tax assessor doesn't know her butt from a hole in the ground and can't even give me the law or statute that she works under daily, but I would have preferred to maintain a lower profile.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

that sounds like the standard were here to raise your taxes house call
we got that at my fist house , the assessor sent around a guy who was plesant but needed to see how many restrooms you had any improvments to see if you had what they had you down for on your previos assesment. they then reassess your house at a much higher value seeing that you remodled this or that and added ect. 

I belive in the past you said you were within driving distance of rockford ill , so they will take a look at houses just outside rockford in the nicer burbs and the compare your square footage to thiers and tell you how much more your house should be worth or assed at , the real slick trick is when they do it if they are smart they will tell you how they are dropping the mil-rate so your taxes will be the same 

so they re-assess your house lets say for arbitrary numbers your house was assed at 100k they reasses it at 130k but drop the mill rate about equal to that but they do that as a temporary change that expires in 1, 3, or 5 years or if they are very tricky it incroments at all 1,3, and 5 back to the original mill rate they get the boost of saying to help with economic hard times they lowered the taxes and yet they increase later even if you vote them out of office at the same time they may show this plan to a bank who gives them credit to complete the new city hall or whatever project they want while they are in office and they get what they want leave any mess for latter and will usualy blame the reassesment on the state because it was mandated. just not in the way it was preformed 

look up the law refuse to let them come in , ask for the law and look it over , if there is no law or it does not madate all the info they are asking you can comply with the minimal amount of the law or challeng it in court


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

wyld thang said:


> Ernie, thay ALREADY have that information on Goggle map aerial stuff. the only way to avoid these people is to live far enough out, up a non county maintained road in Deliverance land. get a fake horror head on a pike on your gate, hang a stinky dead coyote over the gate. im serious make it diffivult to get to--and mud is great, they wont want to sully their jimmi choos


Yup that is what I was thinking. I got my property taxes cut in half by making a phone call. The assessor never bothered even looking at the place. There is no way around it once you start getting that level of baloney about the only thing a person can do is move. I had to do that once already. I had a property that the DNR decided to do a flyover on. Magically my property went from having an acre and a half of wetland to almost the entire property being classified as such. I was told by the head of the Planning and Zoning commission that I would have a couple of months to remove my mobile home (he also found fault that I did not get any building permits) and remove my driveway from the wetlands. I decided to sell, actually made a little money. Some guy bought it just to park his camper on during deer hunting season.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

remember to ask any agents of the assessor to send you a letter on city letter head signed by the city assessor stating exactly what info they need and why they need it , and the law that specifies this need.

if they say , thats not nessacary , here is my county id , explain that due to fraud events in the past you can't trust a simple id and that someone could print up a county id that looked the same with little effort , that you would like a letter from the assessor registerd mail , and then you will mail them back a letter to schedule a time for what may need doing. even if you cant stop it you can drag it out for a long time


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

In Oklahoma, unless the law has changed recently and I know it hasn't, they can not come into your home for anything regarding taxes. Since they dropped the personal tax issue, you don't even have to tell them what is in your home. 

They will come out about every 3 years and look at the back and the front of the house but not the inside. They send out notices that this is going to happen.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

So far I stalled them by asking them to email me the statute that allows them to collect this information. They said they would but so far they haven't. I suspect they never will.

The polaroids they showed me of my house are at least fifteen years old. There were structures visible in them that I can't even see any traces left that they ever existed. 

Since we moved out here my property taxes have risen almost 30% while my home has lost almost 40% of its total value, assuming I could ever sell it in the first place. Most of the improvements I've made to the property wouldn't be visible to anyone but a farmer or homesteader. What homebuyer today cares about me increasing the soil fertility or increased permaculture?


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Ernie said:


> This is about exactly what I expect. But I'm trying to figure out a way to deal with it that doesn't end up with me paying a large fine or on the 5 o' clock news.
> 
> In this situation, I actually do have reason to fear the government.
> 
> ...


Are those real requirements? If so you need to move...Maine doesn't have enough money to enforce much....and playing dumb will get you 6 months to comply and likely no follow-up....but don't go selling raw milk/meat...:nono: I know someone who was caught doing that...I only barter with my milk w/ family and close friends. Sell the animal live--courtesy butcher.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Wow, Ernie that's a difficult one. You've done the only things I can think of...requiring them to show you the statute. This make me think that if we ever get out of town and build one of the first things we need to do is plant fast growing trees to keep the "eyes in the sky" off of us. Then plant the slower growing hardwoods between them so we can pull the fast growers out as soon as the hardwoods "cover" us. Here in town 100% of our property can be seen from the city owned road...so they don't bother us when they want to "update" their records. This just reminds me why I'd love to live at the end of a 3 mile long dirt road that I can keep up to MY standards (IE 4x4 with awesome suspension to pass down).


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## highlandview (Feb 15, 2007)

I find in these situations the less you say to people the less of a problem you will have. Too often in situations that could be argumentative I get to talking to people and say too much - giving them ammo to come back at me with.


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## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

In Tarrant county, TX any building that is not a permanent structure (built on a foundation) needs no permits or extra tax value. There are a LOT of oversize sheds built on treated wood skids. If it is the same where you live, that would be an out for coops, etc.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

They're going to get the information whether you cooperate or not.

Honestly, I don't have any advice.....except to tell you to get out of Illinois. You have to submit homeschool records???!!! You have to get a permit to build a chicken coup????!!! Seriously, I'd either make it my mission in life to get the laws changed or I'd be outta there.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Dr Mom I suggest you do some rethinking about that "dead bird" kind of stuff.
Sounds good on a HT post
BUT
Something like that could end up having the **Health Dept** on your door step . . . Trouble City...... RED TAGS


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

highlandview said:


> I find in these situations *the less you say to people the less of a problem you will have*. Too often in situations that could be argumentative I get to talking to people and say too much - giving them ammo to come back at me with.


I was out diggin out a planting bed thinking the same thing about Ernie's situation. Wonderin *WHO* talked? Maybe the kids yappin with the other kids? Or runnin the gums down at the local bar/watering hole, restaurant, etc?

Speak little, listen much, and a few other choice Biblical quotes come to mind in this situation.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

The tax assessor herself came back to show me the statute. Didn't bother to call or email, just showed up.

I looked at the statute and decided to try a different approach. I used the "charming Ernie". She took new measurements but didn't pay any attention to the chicken coop or any of the other stuff. She was afraid of the beehive that I keep up near the front door so she only took a photo of the back of the house. I sent her away with eggs and honey and it looks like I'm at least not MORE on the government's radar now, if not any less.

The best outcome would have been to say "go away" and that be that, but ultimately in this day and age (and in this state) that just buys you more trouble later on down the road. As of now she's thinking of me as "that nice farmer guy" as opposed to "that anti-government loony". Which is preferable.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Way to go Ernie, because of you those two little teeny-boppers that first showed up at your place will probably get fired.

I can just hear their boss now: "Hey, you two....that guy aint near as mean as you said he was!...he's charming and good lookin. I don't want you making up any more stories about the fine citizens of this here county! Now, you two girls git out there and git busy and dontcha come back here with any more mean guy stories. One more story like that and you're fired! Let's see, the next guy on the list to visit is Mr. Texican. Now git!"


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## lorian (Sep 4, 2005)

The tax assespr here keeps coming every three months to assess a building that my husband never finished (his shop). I laugh because he says everytime "Oh, not done yet?" "Yes", I say, we don't have enough money to finish it right now...see you in three months! 

You handled that well Ernie...polite resistance and charming distraction.


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## MrCalicoty (Jun 27, 2010)

Ernie,

There is a very intimidating notice that you can have made that protects your rights to your property and it's aimed at "visitors" especially of the public servant types that want to enter your premises. I will try to dig it up and post it.


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

When I was in LE, I can't remember ever enforcing something without knowing the legal basis or statute for it. Even when I knew the statute, if I couldn't clearly understand what it meant, I would get clarification from the prosecutor PRIOR to enforcing it, unless I had previous experience with it and knew how it had been interpreted before.


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## MrCalicoty (Jun 27, 2010)

I found it! The signs can actually be purchased for $30. Frankly if I ever saw one of these signs on someone's property I would be heading the other way ASAP. They ARE copyrighted and I wouldn't want to mess with Ellsworth...

http://www.loghomebuilders.org/keep-out-signs


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Ernie said:


> This is about exactly what I expect. But I'm trying to figure out a way to deal with it that doesn't end up with me paying a large fine or on the 5 o' clock news.
> 
> In this situation, I actually do have reason to fear the government.
> 
> ...


My goodness... It sounds as though you live in the middle of a city, not in a rural environment! When I grew up in the country, I think that the only law on the books was the one about getting a dog license!

Do they really enforce all of that stuff?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I haven't heard of them enforcing any of it, though some of my friends on this very forum have had serious run-ins with the law over various agricultural issues. Mostly selling honey or raw milk. 

I think it's the usual government approach ... make essentially every activity illegal and then you can selectively enforce various laws against anyone you dislike. It's a particularly insidious form of economic warfare that our government conducts against its citizens.


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

mrcalicoty said:


> i found it! The signs can actually be purchased for $30. Frankly if i ever saw one of these signs on someone's property i would be heading the other way asap. They are copyrighted and i wouldn't want to mess with ellsworth...
> 
> http://www.loghomebuilders.org/keep-out-signs


usc-18, 241 & 242


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Glad it sorta worked out for you. For next time, the first rule no matter what you decide should be to have a good digital camera (and maybe a regular one too) and take lots of pictures of them taking pictures. Pictures of their IDs. Pictures of them holding their IDs. Pictures of their vehicle with the plates visible. You get the idea. Just in case you want to share them later.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

well done!


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> remember to ask any agents of the assessor to send you a letter on city letter head signed by the city assessor stating exactly *what info they need and why they need it , and the law that specifies this need.*
> if they say , thats not nessacary , here is my county id , explain that due to fraud events in the past you can't trust a simple id and that someone could print up a county id that looked the same with little effort , that you would like a letter from the assessor registerd mail , and then you will mail them back a letter to schedule a time for what may need doing. even if you cant stop it you can drag it out for a long time


I would reverse the order. Give me the exact law citation first. Not just that it is in the state Statutes or whatever, not that it is in Section 5 of the Revised Code, but Revised Code of the State of Wherever, Section 5, paragraph 8, subsection A, 1. I'm a busy person, don't waste my time if you don't have an actual law authorizing your incursion.

Then if they actually have a legal leg to stand on, they can tell me what they think that law entitles them to and how it will be used.

And I agree about holding out for a non-form letter on county letterhead, signed by a real person. Often times, they are working from a rather general interpretation of the law, which they know will not stand up to close legal scrutiny, so they are very reluctant to put things down in black and white in an official manner, for which they will later be held responsible.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Don't know how others would handle it but I don't allow anyone on my property unless they are invited or have a warrant. No exceptions. I will try to explain that I have no interest in what they are doing. If that fails I can explain in a way anyone can understand. I like to be friendly. To remain friendly I don't allow others to bother me. If they insist on bothering me I become unfriendly.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

Ernie said:


> This is about exactly what I expect. But I'm trying to figure out a way to deal with it that doesn't end up with me paying a large fine or on the 5 o' clock news.
> 
> In this situation, I actually do have reason to fear the government.
> 
> ...



...................So If , you deny them permission , they'll make assumptions based upon Their info and calculate your taxes from that info ! Then , if you protest their numbers they will possibly reject your numbers , UNless you allow them too make a visual inspection and take dimensions . What a load of stuff . , fordy


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Cabin Fever said:


> Way to go Ernie, because of you those two little teeny-boppers that first showed up at your place will probably get fired.
> 
> I can just hear their boss now: "Hey, you two....that guy aint near as mean as you said he was!...he's charming and good lookin. I don't want you making up any more stories about the fine citizens of this here county! Now, you two girls git out there and git busy and dontcha come back here with any more mean guy stories. One more story like that and you're fired! Let's see, the next guy on the list to visit is Mr. Texican. Now git!"


If only.... the local assessor is a good guy, but a bit iffy looking (ever seen "The Hills Have Eyes"), tall lanky with a wandering eye. Sure imagine folks (guys anyhow) wouldn't mind getting assessment visits if it were by cute young thangs...

I've mentioned it before, but I went 13 years down here without the tax man even knowing about me. After a developer turned me in, I had some fun with the assessors... I went in because they sent a letter and said the 'gig was up', they'd discovered my house (right, I was squealed out by a rich man trying to buy me out) and could I please give them a key to my gate? Drove to the office, and said, no, they couldn't have a key, cause I didn't have a locked gate (they were a good mile away looking for my place!). Also told em, they'd better not try and drive down to my house. Well they got huffy, and I got huffy back (biting my lip). You're not going to drive to my house!!! I said, and left. Next week, they called me in again... seems they realized I was telling the truth.... they _couldn't drive_ to my house... there was a 4' deep mudhole in the road. Told they "could walk" if they wanted to. Next week, my uncle saw em walking up and down the dirt road... he went over and asked em what's up... said they couldn't find my place... he looked at the map I'd given them, and told em follow the map to the letter, and they'd find it.

After all the brouhaha... I was right at the break even point for zero taxes (20K homestead exemption on homes).

I survived the google map flyover... my house is totally invisible, two out of my 3 barns are invisible... alas, the big barn has too much exposed tin, and stands out wayyyy too much.

good luck Ernie... they're going to get their pound and a half of flesh... too many hungry mouths they have to feed. Alas, if hunger gets "real" they'll also come out and make a 'grand assessment' on your place (and mine, and everyone else's).


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> alas, the big barn has too much exposed tin, and stands out wayyyy too much



You need a creative roof painter who can make it look like it's a garden, or the burnt out remains of a building


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You need a creative roof painter who can make it look like it's a garden, or the burnt out remains of a building


I was thinking the same thing. :rock:


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Ernie said:


> So far I stalled them by asking them to email me the statute that allows them to collect this information. They said they would but so far they haven't. I suspect they never will.
> 
> The polaroids they showed me of my house are at least fifteen years old. There were structures visible in them that I can't even see any traces left that they ever existed.
> 
> Since we moved out here my property taxes have risen almost 30% while my home has lost almost 40% of its total value, assuming I could ever sell it in the first place. Most of the improvements I've made to the property wouldn't be visible to anyone but a farmer or homesteader. What homebuyer today cares about me increasing the soil fertility or increased permaculture?


are they still taxing you on all those outbuilding , it may actualy be in your interest to tell them hey i reduced by X number of outbildings and built no new perminent structures the loss of those outbuildings being taxed may help , i am not saying you should let them come over untill they show you the statute and tell you exactly what they NEED to know to be in compliance with the statute

a polarod taken from the same spot with outside dementions of your buidings , and a measure of how much you have tillable or in pasture or rotationaly graze , this may further reduce your taxes making most of your land bing used for agricultural purposes , that may take rezoning to an ag zoning but may be worth it , this should be the only thing you should offer 
but first asking what the tax is on grazed or tilled land might be wise.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

texican said:


> ....I survived the google map flyover... my house is totally invisible, two out of my 3 barns are invisible... alas, the big barn has too much exposed tin, and stands out wayyyy too much....


For years I thought our place was invisible. We live in the middle of 40 acres of forest. You can't see our from the road and our 800-ft driveway is curvy, so you cannot see it by looking down drive, either. In fact, the driveway looks like an old logging road....no mailbox.

Our county has a GIS mapping app that anyone can use....more and more counties are doing this. With the GIS mapping, you can look up any property in the entire county. Once you find a property, one can get an aerial photo of it, get the owners name and address, get the specifics on the parcel, its market and assessment value and even the property tax and whether it's been paid or not!

Check your county's website, you might be surprized what you find there. If it does not have a GIS/property application, if will likely have one in the near future....a free application that anyone can use!

At any rate, this is what our place looks like from the air. The aerial photo is direct off our county website. You can see everything, including our 4' x 4' outhouse!


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## palani (Jun 12, 2005)

Ernie said:


> How do you resist this?



Lots of information here on how to rebut contract offers. The audio files are free.
http://www.creditorsincommerce.com/



> Every man is where he is by the law of his being; the thoughts which he has built into his character have brought him there, and in the arrangement of his life there is no element of chance, but all is the result of a law which cannot err.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

ovsfarm said:


> I would reverse the order. Give me the exact law citation first. Not just that it is in the state Statutes or whatever, not that it is in Section 5 of the Revised Code, but Revised Code of the State of Wherever, Section 5, paragraph 8, subsection A, 1. I'm a busy person, don't waste my time if you don't have an actual law authorizing your incursion.
> 
> Then if they actually have a legal leg to stand on, they can tell me what they think that law entitles them to and how it will be used.
> 
> And I agree about holding out for a non-form letter on county letterhead, signed by a real person. Often times, they are working from a rather general interpretation of the law, which they know will not stand up to close legal scrutiny, so they are very reluctant to put things down in black and white in an official manner, for which they will later be held responsible.


yes i agree with this , the order could easily be reversed , i had only been thinking if they tell you first what they want and why then give the exact law like you said the hole code that justifies what they are asking , you may just get them to hang themselves meaning put in writing that they are asking for things the law does not justify because they fist stated what they were asking then did the copy paste of the law more than likely failing to accuratly read and annalize the law.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Cabin Fever, that might be a good reason to build an underground or earth-bermed with sod roof house, although you'd have to hope that they didn't take any aerial photos while construction was under way.

Kathleen


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## mellowguy (Jul 8, 2009)

Ernie said:


> first they send pleasant people who don't know anything, then when you resist they try to compel you with threats of the force of law, and finally if you continue to resist you get the not-so-pleasant thugs in uniform.


Here's my take: as you said, somebody was going to end up doing this audit/assessment somehow. 

Good save, because the way things had started up, it didn't look good for flying under the radar.

I would have taken the approach of being reticent, but obedient, and tried to control what pictures were being taken, because "you didn't want pictures of easy-to-steal stuff" to end up managed by the township. If it's innocent teenagers, they are probably less likely to spot the beehive/greenhouse/coop, know that you need to be registered/permitted, wonder if the reason you resist is because of the beehive/greehouse/coop, know the penalties applicable for not having a registration/permit, etc.

Kicking up a fuss means that when someone comes back (because they will), you'll now be the talk of the township workers, they'll wonder what you have to hide, they'll look at the pictures closer, etc. Worst even, the innocent girls are replaced by an experienced assessor or someone from the building or planning department.

Unless you are prepared to put it all on the line, take it to the media and challenge the township all the way to the Supreme Court, then being a grey man is preferable, and that unfortunately comes with compliance. It's easier to control summer students than experienced assessors. 

Edited: forgot to read the 2nd page


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You need a creative roof painter who can make it look like it's a garden, or the burnt out remains of a building


I've got about 8 gallons of mismatched paint stored up... Just a matter of finding some 'free time' to get up there and get er done.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Cabin Fever said:


> For years I thought our place was invisible. We live in the middle of 40 acres of forest. You can't see our from the road and our 800-ft driveway is curvy, so you cannot see it by looking down drive, either. In fact, the driveway looks like an old logging road....no mailbox.
> 
> Our county has a GIS mapping app that anyone can use....more and more counties are doing this. With the GIS mapping, you can look up any property in the entire county. Once you find a property, one can get an aerial photo of it, get the owners name and address, get the specifics on the parcel, its market and assessment value and even the property tax and whether it's been paid or not!
> 
> ...


I dislike with a passion this information being 'out there'. At least google street view can't find me.

If I only knew when the aerial pic folks were flying over, I'd make it interesting, by shooting them the moon.

btw... is that someone giving a bronx salute? out the door of the outhouse? 

Guarantee you, if you were at home when Google Maps flew over, you'd be visible. I can see individual cows and goats, and tools in my truck, paddles in my boat, etc.... :tmi:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

The Google street view of my house they put up shows me building a milking stand for a goat in my front yard. Everything's pretty blurry though, like they didn't even slow down to snap the pic.


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## mellowguy (Jul 8, 2009)

Ernie said:


> The Google street view of my house they put up shows me building a milking stand for a goat in my front yard. Everything's pretty blurry though, like they didn't even slow down to snap the pic.


At the bottom of the google street image, there is a "Report a problem" link, from which there is a pre-selected option to request that a privacy adjustment be made (i.e. remove the picture where you appear). I know someone who asked for his face to be removed for privacy reasons (he was in his yard) and for his garage to be removed to prevent theft (his garage door was open, showing the content of his garage). Going to his house with google street, you now see a blacked-out image.

It took him weeks and several follow ups.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I sent them four emails demanding they remove the photo of my house and never received a response.

Mark my words, people ... the Orwellian future is being built right now by young people who just think technology is "cool".


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Cabin Fever said:


> For years I thought our place was invisible. We live in the middle of 40 acres of forest. You can't see our from the road and our 800-ft driveway is curvy, so you cannot see it by looking down drive, either. In fact, the driveway looks like an old logging road....no mailbox.
> 
> ............At any rate, this is what our place looks like from the air. The aerial photo is direct off our county website. You can see everything, including our 4' x 4' outhouse!



And if we had the exact day and date the photo was taken, one can get the longitude and latitude of the spot based on the shadow of the outhouse!

In a few more years, they won't even need satellites or people stomping all over the lawn.

They're already talking about saving money by spraying billions of little RFID chips on an area to make 3-D contour maps that also measure temperature and weather conditions, grass growth, wildlife activity, etc.

I think it's called the RFID Swarm project

As for census, there's already a program for that - fluoride in toothpaste is useless in stopping tooth decay. It only allows the government to track population density from space via satellites.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Ernie said:


> The Google street view of my house they put up shows me building a milking stand for a goat in my front yard. Everything's pretty blurry though, like they didn't even slow down to snap the pic.



Google purposely blurs people and even license plates and such.  They'd had many lawsuits from the woman who was nude bathing on her deck to the gentleman whose car was sighted in NJ when his wife thought he was in Nevada on a business trip.

My girlfriend requested that Google remove her address from street view and they did it with no fuss. However, I told her I can still see her house in the reflections off the windows of the neighbor's houses!


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## gunseller (Feb 20, 2010)

Iowa tried this 20 years or so ago. The county I live in told me I would be hit with a 100% tax penelty if I did not let them in. I told them where the road was and to use it. Then called the state AG's office and got a copy of the law they were trying to use to force people to let them into their homes. Next the county had me meet with the county attorney. He pulls out a state statutes book and reads,"You must assist the county assesor." With that I looked at him and told him that a Junior High English student knew better than to stop in the middle of a sentence. The statutes reads you must assist the county assessor by answering any and all questions pertaining to the property. Then I told him I had spoken with the AG's office. I also told him if the county tried to hit me with a 100% tax penelty I would own the county. Taxes were cut in half without me answering any questions. The 5th admement says it takes a judge to sign a warrent before you have to let any public offical into your house or on your property. I hope it works out for you in the long run. I would have tiold them where the road was and to use it and not come back. 
Steve


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

gunseller said:


> Iowa tried this 20 years or so ago. The county I live in told me I would be hit with a 100% tax penelty if I did not let them in. I told them where the road was and to use it. Then called the state AG's office and got a copy of the law they were trying to use to force people to let them into their homes. Next the county had me meet with the county attorney. He pulls out a state statutes book and reads,"You must assist the county assesor." With that I looked at him and told him that a Junior High English student knew better than to stop in the middle of a sentence. The statutes reads you must assist the county assessor by answering any and all questions pertaining to the property. Then I told him I had spoken with the AG's office. I also told him if the county tried to hit me with a 100% tax penelty I would own the county. Taxes were cut in half without me answering any questions. The 5th admement says it takes a judge to sign a warrent before you have to let any public offical into your house or on your property. I hope it works out for you in the long run. I would have tiold them where the road was and to use it and not come back.
> Steve


I'm glad you stood your ground and things worked out for you. But, sadly, things have changed in the past 20 years and that 5th amendment doesn't guarantee the same protection it used to.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Iowa is also considerably different than the People's Republic of Illinois.


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## palani (Jun 12, 2005)

gunseller said:


> Next the county had me meet with the county attorney.


THAT would be a trick. Amendment 31 to the Iowa constitution eliminated the office of county attorney in 1971. The guy you talked to was just a representative of the AGs office rather than a representative of the county.


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