# My tortoise's leg got bit off



## Laverne (May 25, 2008)

I have a box tortoise pair. I've had them for 25 years. I put them in a bathtub with dirt in it for a few days. The female got out, a critter must have pulled her out. I found her a week later walking. I picked her up and her left front leg was chewed off. I feel really bad cause I let her get too fat to close up in her shell. Anyway, the stump was full of maggots so I irrigated them out with water and picked them out with tweezers. I think they did their job keeping infection away. The muscle is sticking out about a 1/2 inch from the retracted skin and the bone is sticking out some. I dried it off with a hair dryer after the cleaning and put iodine on it. Next day iodine again. Next day I irrigated it with pennicilin. It smells fine, not infected and she is active in her clean container. Not wanting to eat yet or drink yet. My plan is to keep it clean and hope the skin grows back over it. I will snip off the protruding bone later when I think it is ready. The vet wanted 66.00 just to look at an 'exotic pet'. I'm hoping for the best. Any other suggestions?


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## Rouen (Aug 19, 2004)

I say just keep with the meds, dont touch the bone or anything, dont dry it just apply the meds and leave it alone. these are animals that can lose their limbs in the wild and be perfectly fine, I've seen wild turtles here that had no front limbs at all, and the wounds were obviously old as they were healed and the turtles were nice and fat for a wild critter.
next time you put them outside make the enclosure more secure with a top.


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## Laverne (May 25, 2008)

Thanks Rouen. That gives me hope. I screened the tub last year when they were out there but for some reason didn't do it right away this year. I learned my lesson.


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## Willow101 (Feb 20, 2008)

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but this animal should be seen by a veterinarian. It is one thing to try and treat a minor problem but this tortoise had its leg chewed of and now the bone is sticking out. Yep, I'm sure there are many here who will think I am being unfair but there are limits to home treatments. I am all for saving money when possible but this is beyond just saving a little bit of money. How much suffering must occur to justify $66.00?

Willow101


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

I agree with willow

Just because wild animals have had it happen, doesnt justify a pet having to suffer, Im sure the wild ones suffered from it when it happened to them. A pet is something WE take responsibility for and have a responsibility to treat. 

A wild animal HAS to suffer, our pets dont.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

It wont "suffer " less by spending a bunch of money to have a Vet tell her to do pretty much what she's already doing.

I doubt seriously they spend a lot of time on "Turtle Trauma" in Vet school.

Any Vet who calls a turtle an "exotic pet" is obviously not a Reptile Specialist, and would most likely be guessing at what to do anyway.


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## Willow101 (Feb 20, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It wont "suffer " less by spending a bunch of money to have a Vet tell her to do pretty much what she's already doing.
> 
> I doubt seriously they spend a lot of time on "Turtle Trauma" in Vet school.
> 
> Any Vet who calls a turtle an "exotic pet" is obviously not a Reptile Specialist, and would most likely be guessing at what to do anyway.


According to the message, the tortiose hasn't eaten or drank in three days. IV fluids might be in order. The bone is sticking out....surgery to possibly remove enough bone so the stump can close might be needed. Antibiotics, pain killers?

Actually, a toroise is classified as exotic. Maybe not to some people but in general it is in the exotic catagory.

As for you justifying not treating the tortoise because the vet in question didn't spend a lot of time learning about them in vet school..... Well, many of the vets I know admit that they got to castrate one horse before graduating. Based on your comment above..that would mean that no vet should ever castrate a horse and we all should learn to deal with stallions because no vet is educated enough to do the surgery.

As Shygal said....when we accept a pet into our home or on our farm we accept responsibility for it. Sometimes that responsibility can be a very big hardship. I am not advocating spending thousands on a pet if you can't. I don't have a problem if someone opts to put a pet to sleep because they cannot afford a large vet bill. While the death of the pet is tragic....humane euthanasia is still accepting responsibility. I understand the need to treat some ailments at home without a vet. But in this case it just seems like this animal should see a vet. It cannot hold it's leg off the ground while it heals because of the structure of it's body. It must drag it. How painful can that be....dragging the end of an exposed bone on the ground? 

Willow101


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Is there a university nearby? Call the herpetology dept and ask them for a recommendation. They might even have someone there that could help.


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## farmmom (Jan 4, 2009)

A local zoo may also be able to give you some guidance. I've visited the reptile department at the zoo here, carrying a snake in a box for them to ID for me. They were very helpful. I would guess that the people that handle these animals on a daily basis would probably have some good advice for you.


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## Laverne (May 25, 2008)

The 'bite off' is very high up there is no bone dragging. It is clean and doesn't interfere with mobility. She doesn't seem in pain and walks around, is alert, not depressed. She was soaked in water recently but I didn't watch the whole time if she was thirsty or drank. 66.00 was the tip of the iceberb, that was just a 'look'. I think she'll be fine. I know how to give water and food. If she goes way downhill, but not until then, I'll put her in the freezer, it's a reptile. My friend was burned over 60% of her body and this turtle won't suffer one tenth of one percent as much as she did in her recovery. Just a humorous side note, O'bama just got put down today, by PITA, for killing a fly.


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## holleegee (Mar 3, 2005)

I would call a different vet.... I have a russian tortoise and would have her at the vet in a heartbeat. If money is a problem maybe you could make payment or work out a barter with the vet. You've had it for 25 years, its worth spending a little money to keep it healthy.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Willow101 said:


> According to the message, the tortiose hasn't eaten or drank in three days. IV fluids might be in order.


Ermm, a tortoise is a reptile. As in cold blooded. As in can go for months without eating or drinking. Yanno?


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

ladycat said:


> Ermm, a tortoise is a reptile. As in cold blooded. As in can go for months without eating or drinking. Yanno?


Uhhhhhhhh........since when?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Shygal said:


> Uhhhhhhhh........since when?


Since the first tortoise was created...

Here's a link http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/600234/tortoise 

Pix


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Ectothermic animals can go for long periods without food and water. Some of them even stop breathing for months when hibernating.

The younger and smaller they are, the more often they need to eat. The larger and older they are, the longer they can do without.

Larger tortoises can go without eating for 2 months without harm.

Large snakes can fast for a year.
Alligators and crocs can fast for 2 to 3 years.
Lungfish have been documented at going for 4 years with no food or water.

It's completely normal for a tortoise to go off feed for a few days when injured. 3 days is not long enough to worry about IV feeding.

If it's not eating after a week while injured, I'd begin to get worried, though even at that point it would not be in imminent danger of starving..


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## JB740i (Feb 5, 2009)

No one was just blown away learning that turtles can get fat?


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Well, you learn something new every day. I still think that it should be looked at by a vet.

And I really dont see what someone being burned , or Obama, has to do with this in any way :shrug:


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## Willow101 (Feb 20, 2008)

Shygal said:


> Well, you learn something new every day. I still think that it should be looked at by a vet.
> 
> And I really dont see what someone being burned , or Obama, has to do with this in any way :shrug:




Agree with everything above. I am open to education. I have to wonder if going without food and water applies to animals in shock and severely injured in the same manner that it would apply to a healthy animal following the laws of nature....such as hybernation. I don't know. I am not a vet. But if that tortoise was mine....I would be finding out if I should take that for granted or seek medical attention. Perhaps contacting some of the experts....as others have suggested....would be the best route to follow.

The justification for suffering was just amazing to me. What is being said (hopefully I am misunderstanding and would love to find out that is the case) is, it is ok for an animal that has had its leg ripped off to suffer without professional attention....because a human suffered more from burns. I wonder what would have to happen to an animal that would be horrific enough to demand professional medical attention.

Willow101


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

JB740i said:


> No one was just blown away learning that turtles can get fat?


Turtles rarely if ever get fat in the wild, but YES they CAN get fat in captivity!


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Shygal said:


> And I really dont see what someone being burned , or Obama, has to do with this in any way :shrug:


I must have missed something. Who said anything about Obama in this topic?

EDITED: never mind. I saw it after reading through a second time. I don't get the joke, though. LOL sometimes I can be dense.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

ladycat said:


> I must have missed something. Who said anything about Obama in this topic?
> 
> EDITED: never mind. I saw it after reading through a second time. I don't get the joke, though. LOL sometimes I can be dense.


I dont think it was meant as a joke :shrug:


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Shygal said:


> Uhhhhhhhh........since when?



For millions of years.
Thats why you dont treat them like other animals.
Learn about the subject* before* giving advice, and dont anthropomorphize.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> As for you justifying not treating the tortoise because the vet in question didn't spend a lot of time learning about them in vet school..... Well, many of the vets I know admit that they got to castrate one horse before graduating. *Based on your comment above..that would mean that no vet should ever castrate a horse and we all should learn to deal with stallions because no vet is educated enough to do the surgery*.



Not at all since , by your example , they have actually DONE the surgery.

I'm betting the average Vet never even SAW a turtle when in school.

Unless the Vet is a SPECIALIST in REPTILES, it's a waste of money to use them.

Half the "pet" Vets cant even properly handle a goat or a sheep, much less an "exotic" turtle


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## Willow101 (Feb 20, 2008)

So far, no one has answered my question. Does an animal capable of going for long periods of time under normal condition possess the same ability after blood loss and severe trauma? I would be happy to hear this is true but so far all I have seen is information about a healthy animal.

In my experience, what an animal can endure easily when healthy is not nessecarily the case when under stress, illness or trauma. Of course animals can be amazingly resilient so anything is possible. Anyone have a link to provide this information?

Willow101


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Willow101 said:


> So far, no one has answered my question. Does an animal capable of going for long periods of time under normal condition possess the same ability after blood loss and severe trauma? I would be happy to hear this is true but so far all I have seen is information about a healthy animal.
> 
> In my experience, what an animal can endure easily when healthy is not nessecarily the case when under stress, illness or trauma. Of course animals can be amazingly resilient so anything is possible. Anyone have a link to provide this information?
> 
> Willow101


Since you are so worried about this tortoise why don't you do some research yourself? The OP has had this tortoise for 25 years so I'm assuming she has more knowledge than most of us regarding their care. 

Pix


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## Willow101 (Feb 20, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> Since you are so worried about this tortoise why don't you do some research yourself? The OP has had this tortoise for 25 years so I'm assuming she has more knowledge than most of us regarding their care.
> 
> Pix



I'd be happy to do the reseach but thought, based on the replies, that others already had that information and could provide it. It seemed to be the perfect time to educate all of us.

Length of ownership for any pet or species does not automatically indicate expert knowledge. Please don't misinterpret that statement as saying this particular owner doesn't know anything. That is NOT what I am saying or implying. I don't know the owner and don't know the level of expertise that she possesses. However, I know many people who have owned animals all their lives and know basically nothing about them other than how to feed them and even then there is doubt about their knowledge. In fact I am continually amazed at the lack of knowledge of many pet owners. Of course with that said, I have also known many individuals with limited time with a particular animal and their level of knowledge is impressive. I don't think length of time owning an animal should be a guide as to their knowledge.

Willow101


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## Laverne (May 25, 2008)

All I know is this reptile clunks against the side of the pen trying to get out acting like everything is normal and I can touch the wound area with no reaction. There was no clotting or blood anywhere on the wound. Never any leg or bone dragging. I am going to let nature run it's course in the healing process. Keeping the infection away, soaking her in water as usual, maybe infusing water by mouth if I deem necessary. And yes she is a lard a--. That's what got her in this situation in the first place. Not able to close up in her shell. The male I have doesn't have this problem, he barely fits though. If she goes down hill she'll go to freezer camp. I'm not going to spend who knows how much on surgery. She's had a very good life and I'm cnfident I'll haver her another 25 years.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Willow101 said:


> I know many people who have owned animals all their lives and know basically nothing about them other than how to feed them and even then there is doubt about their knowledge. In fact I am continually amazed at the lack of knowledge of many pet owners.


I'm with you on that one. Sometimes I'm just speechless at the sheer ignorance of people.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Laverne said:


> If she goes down hill she'll go to freezer camp.


I'm all for being practical, but I could never eat an animal I'd had for 25 years.


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## Willow101 (Feb 20, 2008)

Laverne said:


> All I know is this reptile clunks against the side of the pen trying to get out acting like everything is normal and I can touch the wound area with no reaction. There was no clotting or blood anywhere on the wound. Never any leg or bone dragging. I am going to let nature run it's course in the healing process. Keeping the infection away, soaking her in water as usual, maybe infusing water by mouth if I deem necessary. And yes she is a lard a--. That's what got her in this situation in the first place. Not able to close up in her shell. The male I have doesn't have this problem, he barely fits though. If she goes down hill she'll go to freezer camp. I'm not going to spend who knows how much on surgery. She's had a very good life and I'm confident I'll have her another 25 years.


I'm glad to hear things are progressing in a positive direction. While you and I would handle things differently it sounds like you are willing to do the right thing if she gets worse. Freezer camp is not the worst option for this tortoise but hope you are right and she will have another 25 years with you.

Willow101


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## HorseFeatherz (Feb 16, 2008)

ladycat said:


> I'm all for being practical, but I could never eat an animal I'd had for 25 years.


I don't think she means to eat her, just let her "go to sleep". Many people who care for reptiles will euthanize using the âdeep sleepâ of a freezer.


Laverne, I am amazed you were able to find her. The predator could have carried herâ¦..forever (dog could have carried her back to home).


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## Willow101 (Feb 20, 2008)

A brief search of the internet found this site on first aid for tortoises. It provides recommendations for blood loss and trauma.

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/firstaid.html

Willow101


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## Laverne (May 25, 2008)

Putting a reptile in the freezer to end it's life is a good method since it is cold blooded. No turtle soup later. I am prepared to do the surgery myself. If necessary. I bought a scalpel. I'll slowly reduce her temperature to about 45 degrees to put her into suspended animation. Debride the excess muscle tissue level with the skin. Have a hot tipped iron ready to cauterize any bleeders. Snip off the protruding bone. Put a single stitch or two, to connect the skin over. That's plan B if I see no improvement in a timely manner with the way it is.


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## Rouen (Aug 19, 2004)

Just make sure you give her time, she is a herp and they are notorious for being slow healers.
I also know many people who brumate their chelonians in their freezers, their major killers during this time are mammals and gut rot.


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## Laverne (May 25, 2008)

Rouen, I learned some new terminology, interesting. And that sight has some good info. Willow101. Thanks


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## Reptyle (Jul 28, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your pet.


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## SageLady (Jun 10, 2008)

Healing vibes sent for your tortoise. Hope it gets better quickly.


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## GoldenMom (Jan 2, 2005)

This thread is now locked. I think the OP has gotten as much helpful advice as they are going to get.


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