# Milker questions (lots of questions)



## bigbluegrass (Jan 11, 2011)

I am thinking about getting a milking machine. I have always milked by hand, as long as I have been around cows. I think I have read enough to understand the basics of how it all works. A few questions for those with milking machines:

The milker:
What style does a better job milking?

Do you still need to hand strip after milking or will the milker get all the milk out?

The two I am aware of are Delaval style or Surge. When I say Delaval style I mean the kind with the "claw", I realize there are several brand names with similar set ups. In my "newness" to this, I am still not aware of all the differences that may exist between all the claw types.

What kind is easier to clean and handle?

What kind is more versatile?

What kind is easier to get parts for and repair?

The vacuum pump:
This would be set up for a single milker. I don't plan to milk multiple cows or have multiple buckets.

What is the CFM and what vacuum does the pump need to be capable of generating?

From what I have read and understand the vacuum of the line should be in the 14" to 15" Hg area. I have seen some say as low as 10" to 11" Hg. What is the advantage to a higher vacuum? How can you tell if it is adjusted correctly?

I have read numbers from 3 CFM to 12 CFM on the airflow side. Are those flow rates at 10"-15" Hg or are they at no vacuum?

Can a low CFM pump, capable of the 15" Hg pressure, be compensated for with extra storage capacity? Similar to how you can get a smaller air compressor and hook it up to a large tank. Once the tank is up to pressure, you can have a short term high demand and still get by. It seems the biggest demand for flow is when the milker is going on. So if there were a larger reserve tank, it seems that flow could be buffered some. I guess what I am wondering is what is the operating CFM for a milker and what is the starting CFM or CFM to apply the milker?

Are there any kinds of vacuum pumps that just won't work? I think rotary vane is the most common I have seen. There are a lot of different types. If I can generate the required CFM and vacuum, will it run the milker?

The procedure:

I have watched a few videos, but tips would be very much appreciated. It looks like you clean the cow off, the same as hand milking. Then put the milker on one teat at a time. I am unsure as to how you determine when it is done in each quarter and how to remove the milker. Does it fall off when it is done? Or is that the purpose to the clear hose I see on some so you can tell when a quarter is done? Do you take one off at a time or all at once? Do you shut the vacuum off first? I have seen some that look like they are really hard to get off. Is that from too much vacuum?

What kinds of things do I need to avoid and do to not have a train wreck on my hands?

I am sorry if some of these questions are really simple. I appreciate all the input from those on here. I am sure everyone has their own way of doing things, which is normal. Just wondering what works for all of you.

Thanks


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## Cindy in KY (May 10, 2002)

Here is my page about our Farm Master Belly milker. We have it hooked up to the vacuum line of the truck to milk. We have a van we don't use anymore that is parked by the barn door, and it gets started twice a day to milk. It has worked fantastic for many years and we are still milking now. It is easy and fast to clean, as it is just carried into the house twice a day.

FarmMaster Belly Milker


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## bigbluegrass (Jan 11, 2011)

Cindy - that is pretty neat. I wonder how much vacuum the truck provides. I guess it doesn't matter - it is enough to get the job done:gaptooth: Do you use the truck for other things as well?

I think I am just going to call Hamby Dairy today and ask them these questions. They probably know the answers and have the added benefit of selling me something when I am done! I am sure there are plenty on here that know the answers to most of these questions. I tried contacting a few people on ebay with mixed results. The milk cow calved yesterday and I realize this is not a cow to hand milk. She has tiny "handles" and they squirt in all the wrong directions. I guess nobody breeds cows to be hand milked anymore!

Cindy, thank you for your response!


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I can't answer about vacuum questions. That's beyond my responsibility around here. DH handles all the issues that have numbers in them. Is there a dairy parts store near you? If so, as them which is easiest to find parts for- they will likely be supplying you the parts. As to their features - that depends on how much you want to spend. There are milkers where each quarter will shut off when there is no milk flow. However $$$$$. You didn't mention pulsators. I don't know about surge, but a milker bucket set up needs a separate pulsator. They fit onto the top of the bucket. I have never been able to figure out how a surge milker works. Hanging a bucket from a cow doesn't seem that easy. The longer tubes running from it to the cow, I could understand. But that set-up seemed a bit unhandy to me. A bucket milker seems easier to get clean. But then, I was raised in a dairy barn. 

There are clear claws that allow you to see the milk flowing through so you can tell when a quarter is finished. However, you can also use your hands. With a bit of experience, you can feel when a quarter is flat and finished milking. Massage it gently and you'll soon be able to tell the difference in an inflated quarter and an empty one. Some dairies only remove the milkers all at once. That works if your cow milks out fairly evenly. I perfer to take each quarter off when the cow is finished- less chance or irritating the milk oriface. It's also a learning curve on what to do with the removed milkers when there's still others quarters to be milked out. Pinching them off and keeping them that way is an art form. LOL!! 

While some do strip some milk out after removing the milker, I also believed the milker was to milk the cow so I didn't have to. If the milker isn't getting all the milk, either there is a people error or the milker isn't functioning properly. 

I don't milk now, but I still have my milker set up. I have a heated room in the barn for the vacuum pump and a PVC line running back to where we milked the cow. It was a great set up for us. When you look at pieces to your dairy set up, think cleaning. Some claws are easier to clean than others. I have one that screws apart for easy cleaning. However,the tiny little rubber gasket between the two pieces was easily bent and broken. I learned to have several onhand. 

You might look into the Keeping a Family Cow forum. There's a lady there that sells refurbished milkers. That's where I got mine.


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## bigbluegrass (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks Callieslamb for the input. I have not found a dairy parts store in this area. In the past I always ordered online from Hamby and had it shipped. Just have to plan ahead a little. I imagine if the milker goes down I will have to milk by hand for a few days - not a big deal. I think the lady on the Keeping a Family cow forum also sells refurbished milkers on ebay. I emailed her and did not get a response yet - but I know I am impatient. Should have started this a few months ago. I have actually been looking for a few years - just not very serious.

I called Hamby and ordered the clear top bucket milker they have. The guy I talked to was very helpful and was able to answer all my questions. He said if you don't have hot water in the barn, the Surge (with strap) type work better - you can take them to the house and clean them. I plan to have hot water in the barn in a few months and they happened to have a used clear top milker. So I got a good deal on that as well. Ordered all the parts and pieces to hook it up. Should be here Monday or Tuesday. Comes with instructions to hook it up and how to operate and clean it.

Thanks to those who replied with answers and comments!


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

I just found this on ebay. It needs parts, but if the vacuum pump works, it is worth $99.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SURGE-BELLY...712?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac087f218


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## bigbluegrass (Jan 11, 2011)

linn said:


> I just found this on ebay. It needs parts, but if the vacuum pump works, it is worth $99.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SURGE-BELLY...712?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac087f218


Isn't that just how it goes! As soon as you buy something you find another cheaper! Oh well, that one looks like you would need to know something about milkers to rebuild it.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

The proper vacuum level is around 9-10 inches at the teat end when in full milk flow. 
With a small system you can most likely get away with having the vacuum running around 11 inches. There is no advantage to running higher vacuum and it may even be detrimental causing teat problems and possibly sphincter prolapse. A decent cfm level for 1 milker unit would be 5 but 3 would most likely do. The CFM level is usually measured at 15 inches vacuum because that is the standard way of doing things.
The type of pump does not matter, a few years ago most farms had rotary vane pumps but new setups will have roots type blowers.
To milk you would turn on the vacuum to the milking unit, with a standard Surge belly bucket the whole unit is under vacuum, with a floor bucket you can have the whole thing claw and all under vacuum or you could put a shutoff valve in the milk line between the claw and the bucket. Once the vacuum is on to the claw you apply the teat cups to the teats and check that you have milk flow, a slight pinch of the milk tube of the inflation will let you feel the milk going through it.
Most animals will milk out fairly evenly and the milker is most usually removed from the whole udder at once rather than one teat at a time. Shut the vacuum off to the claw and wait a second for the residual vacuum to dissipate before pulling the claw to remove, most times it will fall off when the vacuum is removed.
You can remove the teat cups from the teats one at a time and either twist the inflations or apply plugs to block the airflow if one quarter milks out slower than the rest but care should be taken to make sure you have stopped vacuum flow to the teat cups before trying to remove them or you could damage the teats. You can either pinch the inflation or push it against the milk inlet on the claw to stop the vacuum.

Some claws work better than others and can really help you figure out what is going on when milking, older DeLaval claws are nice because the vacuum shutoff is on the bottom and will normally shut off if the unit is kicked off, but they have a stainless steel top that makes it difficult at times to determine milk flow. Their newer Harmony claws are plastic on top and are much easier to view but they are pricey. Universal Tidal Flow claws are great they have plastic tops and the stainless bottom is built to remove the milk quickly from the claw to cut down on vacuum fluctuation. Barrel claws of any brand work well too.

The one nice thing about the Surge belly milker is that you can still get parts for the built in pulsator.
I had an old Universal bucket and they don't make parts for their pulsator anymore so I had to find another way to do it. There are aftermarket vacuum operated pulsators and adapters to put them right on the bucket like the old days or you can mount them to the vacuum line.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

linn said:


> I just found this on ebay. It needs parts, but if the vacuum pump works, it is worth $99.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SURGE-BELLY...712?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac087f218


No rubber parts and you have to learn how to rebuild a pulsator. But not a bad deal overall...


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