# Help! Hores ate 12# chick starter



## C. Marie (Dec 26, 2007)

Someone please give me advice. Just got home from church and found my 4 year old horse in the barn eating chicken starter. Just opened bag and 12# are missing, called two vets in the area and no answer back yet since it is sunday afternoon. We are walking him, no water of letting him lay down, what else can I do until the vet gets back to me? What are the chances that two doors and the tub and bag would be open, I just feel sick. Someone was asleep doing chores this morning.


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

OK, was this medicated starter or non-medicated? GET THE INFO off the bag. If it was non-medicated, you may just be OK. Alot of times, it "looks like" they ate 12#, but in reality, they tossed it around and scattered it, etc, and really only got 5 or 6# in themselves, silly critters!

But I agree, get a vet. Trailer to the vet, if you must. Might need a good tubing and some activated charcoal, etc, if the feed was medicated. If nothing else, sometimes an old rancher will know how to stomach-tube a horse, and you can get activated charcoal from the pharmacy, etc.

WIHH, what was the procedure for you?


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Oh, forgot to add, perhaps some Banamine in the muscle? Might keep him calm/comfortable if his belly does start griping... 1cc/100lbs


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Give him charcoal and oil. The oil will help move things along and the charcoal will help absorb the toxins that will develop in the gut. 

The vet will give an anti inflammatory to reduce damage in the hooves.


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## C. Marie (Dec 26, 2007)

The bag says nothing about medication in it, but it was labeled as medicated in the feed store, it is Nutrena Nature Wise chick starter/grower. About the charcoal and oil, can you give that orally or do you need to use a tube? Got a hold of a vet an hour away, do not have a trailer right now so can't go to him, sent someone to get banamine from him. He will come if the local vets don't contact me soon. The horse is not acting in pain yet, just standing tied and drowsy now. Am I right in thinking that he is not to have _any _food? For how long and what about water? Thanks so much for helping me through this.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I actually had this happen once and while I still feel you should speak with your own vet, mine had me give my gelding vegetable oil but for the life of me, I can't remember how much. 

The gedling in question was exceptionally mild mannered and chick starter gave him a very undesirable personality for @ 48 hours. He was extremely agressive to the point where he was downright dangerous and the whole act of getting oil into him left me broken bones in my hand and stitches in my forearm.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Ouch WR! Crazy it would cause such a change.

The medication should be Amprollium, which doesn't cause any acute harm for horses from what I've read.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I used a turkey baster to get oil in the horse and it's best to not wear chothes you'd like to keep. I wore as much as I got in. 

You asked about feeding him, given the fact that he's eaten quite a bit, I think he can miss a meal.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Is this the product?

Organic Chick Starter Mash
Guaranteed Analysis

Lysine 
(Min)
1.1 %

Methionine 
(Min)
0.5 %

Crude Protein 
(Min)
21.00%

Crude Fat 
(Min)
6.00%

Crude Fiber 
(Max)
5.00%

Calcium 
(Min)
0.80%

Calcium 
(Max)
1.05%

Phosphorus 
(Min)
0.60%

Salt 
(Min)
0.4%

Salt 
(Max)
0.6%


List of Ingredients
Organic Corn, Organic Roasted Soybeans, Organic Soybean Meal, Monocalcium phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, DL Methionine, Mannan Oligiosaccharide, Choline Chloride, Organic Soybean Oil, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Zinc Oxide, Niacin, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine HCL, Menadione Sodium, Bisulfate Complex, Biotin, Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12, Thiamine, Redmond Salt.


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## C. Marie (Dec 26, 2007)

So the vet gave us banamine, bute paste and acepromazine. All this is just pain relief and anti inflammatory, correct? What about toxins from the chick starter in his stomach? I got some oil down him and the activated charcoal sounded like a good idea, but would that counteract with his meds? We are to give the bute paste for three days. He is just being so naughty today. Had to reinforce the fence he got through this morning, then the chick feed, and now he is still acting like he is starving and vaccuming up any blade of grass he can find in the dry lot. Oh yes, and he fought tooth and hoof when I gave him his meds. Sheesh, he could act just a little sick after all of my hyperventilating and carrying on.:shrug: I still love him.

wr, no that is not quite it, it is not organic and the levels are different. The tag says it has amprolium as the active ingredient, so it is medicated.


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## poppysfarm (Apr 10, 2009)

I am curious to how this turned out. It seems that this should be Ok. Please let us know.
http://www.amprol.com/Phibro/Company/Safety.html


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

The charcoal should have been given earlier for the best help. I usually mix it with the oil. Although oil and charcoal makes black paint!

As far as the meds, just don't give it withing an hour of oral meds I would guess, because yes, it would absorb a lot of it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

How is he doing today?


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## C. Marie (Dec 26, 2007)

Jake is acting fine today, no symptoms but a little grumpy with me. He fought when I gave his meds and was very unhappy with his breakfast, 1/3 of his usual hay and no grain supplement according to vets orders. I was concerned with his lack of "manure output" earlier this morning, but since breakfast things seem to be moving along normally. I must say that the local vets havn't made a very good impression on me as they haven't even called back yet. We just moved here and I was so hoping to have good relations with them. (sigh) The vet an hour away was great, made me double check all the local vets numbers then called me back and offered his assistance. Anyway, does anyone know how long until I can consider Jake officially ok? He is on a three day regimen of the anti inflammatory, if he is showing no sign of pain or lameness after that can he be exercised or ridden right away or not?


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Continually lay your hands on his hooves; after 3 days on the anti-inflam. meds, continue to check his feet for 48 more hours. I'd say if they don't heat up after that, then you're good! But no grain for a week, for sure, and only then in small doses until he's back on his regular ration.


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## C. Marie (Dec 26, 2007)

Yeah, meeting with the vet has been on the to-do list, but with the moving and settling in projects it has been delayed far too long. As a new horse owner I have been so paranoid about keeping my horses safe and healthy, yet accidents happen. I know God is watching out for us on this one and I am very thankful. 

Today is the last day of Jake's meds. He doesn't seem to be in any pain and was romping about last night in good spirits. I have been checking his hooves frequently as suggested and at times last night and today they have felt a little warm, just slightly more so than the other horses hooves. I had him stand in cold water several times today because I am anxious about it. 

How warm do hooves have to get to indicate laminitic damage? 
Also, is there anything I can give him to help get his gut back to normal after the overload and meds? Thanks everyone for the advice.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

He's bound to have some degree of laminitic damage, it's just how much that's the factor. 

Oh, it's also a good idea to give probiotics if you aren't already.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

southerngurl, I`m not telling you you`re wrong but I`m not going to say you`re right either. My gelding at substantially more than this horse and he had no laminitis and all told, he suffered absolutely no ill effects. I`m certainly not advocating chick starter as an additive to the equine diet but I can fairly confidently say that horses have an uncanny knack for the unpredictable.

C. Marie, it would be a good idea to make a follow up call to the vet and have a farrier out as soon as you can. If the horse does have a bit of laminitis, a proactive approach is better than trying to resolve things later on. 

In my opinion, the farrier has more consistent relationship with a healthy horse than the vet and I haven`t met one yet that wasn`t willing to point things out and make suggestions.


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## columbiasc (Sep 4, 2009)

load him in the trailer and ride him around,,it beats walking and gets the digestion going.
just a thought.


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## PlowGirl (Nov 16, 2005)

nevermind


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

columbia said:


> load him in the trailer and ride him around,,it beats walking and gets the digestion going.
> just a thought.


He's not colicking....


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

> southerngurl, I`m not telling you you`re wrong but I`m not going to say you`re right either. My gelding at substantially more than this horse and he had no laminitis and all told, he suffered absolutely no ill effects. I`m certainly not advocating chick starter as an additive to the equine diet but I can fairly confidently say that horses have an uncanny knack for the unpredictable.


What I mean is, you are bound to have some amount lamillar loss, on a microscoplic level (well, it's all on a microscopic level, a little or a lot). Small amounts will not be noticable or cause any problem- but is probably visible as a growth ring in the hoof. But any spike in blood sugar starves some of the lamina to some degree or another. In fact, most horses have subclinical laminitis as a "norm" because they are too stagnant and get too much sugar in their food, even just grass. It's just once it gets past a certain point that you have a visible problem that's to a degree that it will be diagnosed as laminitis.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

southerngurl, I understood the premise behind your comment completely and while I don't disagree that there is certainly the potential for anything from a minor issue to something bigger, I can state that in my case, it was a non issue. I understand growth rings and we see them often because of seasonal changes in diet and even that wasn't an issue. 

I do feel that it wiould be a very good idea for C. Marie to have the farrier out as soon as possible so she would have a better idea of where they stand on this issue.


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

My farrier always said, "I see 54 hooves a day, 5 days a week, all year long. Your vet sees hooves only when there is something acutely wrong with them, and then calls me to handle all the aftercare for you. How'd you like me to look at that horse of your's today?" <giggle> Red Renchin is in the horsehoer hall-of-fame, and derned if he weren't right about that!

I agree, a good farrier should help you right out if you have any further concern about a small change in his feet from this little fiasco!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

C. Marie, how is the horse doing now?


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## C. Marie (Dec 26, 2007)

Well, I am not quite sure. He doesn't seem to be in pain or standing weird. He has been dragging his front hooves slightly the past couple days and is a little more grumpy than normal. He had a trim last month and looks due for another. I have called my farrier, he is busy but hopefully he can get out here soon. What should I be watching for or concerned about at this piont? Thanks for checking on us.


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

Do his feet feel especially warm?


Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

When was the last time the farrier saw the horse?


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

She mentioned he was trimmed last month. 

You want a horse on a schedule that doesn't allow him to really "look" like he needs a trim- at least what most horse owners would call that anyway. Mine are trimmed monthly.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Thanks southerngurl, I must have missed that.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

How is he doing now?


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## C. Marie (Dec 26, 2007)

Hooray! The farrier came out to trim, said that Jake's feet looked great and to ride him out in the fields as much as I want. If we want to do anything more strenuous, he would be glad to work with us to keep Jake sound. He also said that it can take up to a year for a horse to show symptoms. If he does, dry lot and ration hay to manage it. Bless him, he told me to stop worrying, it would be easily managed and Jake would be just fine. Praise God!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

That's terrific news.


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