# How important is it to buy only registered goats?



## knuckledragger (Jun 6, 2007)

Okay, what is the advantage of buying a registered over a non registered goat? Our primary goal in having goats is to be more self sufficient, but we still may sell some of the goats we raise. We are looking to have primarily dairy goats (although i like the dual purpose aspects of kinders and nubians). A man I go to church with says that he takes his to goat sales and that a registered goat brings no more than a non registered goat. But I also know that some people say that having a registered goat is very important.


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## TennesseeMama23 (May 10, 2006)

It just depends on your goal. I don't care at all about registration, I am in it for the milk. Even if I buy registered, I don't file the papers.

Registered goats may bring more if you are selling to people who care, if you take goats to a stockyard, they will not bring more. You can have a mutt goat that will out milk a reg goat all day long. Papers don't always mean quality. Disease free, milk production, and health are my primary concerns. 

I have different breeds of goats and love to mix them. I change up buck breeds yearly and try for a variety of ears and colors, though I only will have good milking stock. My best producing milker is a 4 way mix.

I usually sell milkers on Craigslist or to people I know (for around $150-200--which would be more if they were registered), I usually sell kids/bucks/wethers/does I hate at the stock yard.

If you are just getting started, it would be better to buy the best quality (tested) registered goats you can afford. Then as the years go by, as you learn to know what to look for in a goat, then you could make your mind up about registration.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

If you shop carefully and know what you are looking for and ask the right questions and have them tested for disease, then you should be able to get good goats without papers.

BUT.... if you want good teats and udders and milking ability, disease free, etc., registered makes that a LITTLE more likely.

You still have to shop and ask the right questions.

Note: ALL goats are dual purpose. You eat the kids of each just the same.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Registered is the way to go for me. It opens a lot more doors than does unregistered animals. 

If you're going to sell kids yearly, I'd register your breeding stock. The idea is to appeal to as big of a market as possible. With registered kids, you appeal to more people than if you offer only unregistered kids. You generally can command a bigger price for off the farm prices. All of my kids go with paperwork, and I don't sell kids for less without papers. Some people do, I don't want to because I believe unregistered animals GENERALLY find better homes than unregistered - and also, the papers do NOT dictate the quality of the animal. I price them by quality, health, and by general going prices in the area, not whether or not they have papers. 

Realize with livestock, you will almost always get a much, much, much lower price at sale barns than with off the farm sales. Usually if you're going to sell breeding stock, you do off the farm sales. It's generally accepted that stockyard sales are for culls, problem animals, or the diseased, so most people don't want to pay a lot for the animals that run through them - with many going for meat. Sale barns are fine for moving extra male dairy kids, unproductive or cull animals you don't expect to make a return on, but you'll loose some of your income with selling breeding quality kids or other 'good' animals at sale barns. Most people at sale barns expect to pay 25.00 per dairy kid, and 75.00 to 100.00 for adult does. At least, that's what I've been told for this area. 

If you want to offer meat goats at auction, consider using a fullblood boer buck on your purebred dairy does. That way, if you want to increase your dairy herd, you can use a dairy buck. Otherwise, the rest of the does get bred to a boer buck and raise chunky meat kids that will sell better at auction for meat. Also, any doelings you get would be registerable at 50% boer, which could do well for off the farm sales as well. 

I agree with TennesseeMama, though. Healthy is the MAIN priority. A healthy, disease tested mutt goat is MUCH more important than a diseased, super-duper, expensive, fancy show goat. Buy from a tested herd (I test for CL, CAE, and Johne's) and practice good biosecurity by isolating any incoming stock for at LEAST 3 months before introduction to the main herd. I usually demand a test before I buy and a test after the 3 month isolation here.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

If you're buying or selling at an auction - which I'd never do - it doesn't matter -

People looking for a quality animal know breeders that care will typically deal with registered animals - they will be, typically, from someone being sure to offer well bred, quality animals - they kid always tell for much more.

I have yet to meet anyone dealing with many unregistered goats that had ever even heard of CAE or CL


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## CarolynRenee (Jan 30, 2008)

Our Saanen matriarch is a Registered Saanen as well as the Nigerian Dwarf buck we use for breeding. Or shall I say, "was"......the paperwork was never transfered to my name when I bought them and it wasn't worth it to me to keep paying the association fees.

But they, and their offspring, have been kept on our farm up until this year. We ate the males and had been keeping the females. I sold my first doe (she was 1/4 Saanen, 3/4 Nigerian) just a few weeks ago and I intend on selling the F1 Mini-Saanen doelings this year. Papers don't seem to make much of a difference here, although I would suggest getting blood work done on your herd if you were to sell.

Unfortunately there are many people willing to sell, and buy (not always because of ignorance) sub-par goats around here. 

I suppose a lot of it depends on the market you're in. The "richer" neighborhoods will probably pay more for a registered goat.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

it cost the same to feed an unregistered goat as it does a registered and folks feel better about buying the animal at value if it has some history.
For instance, I have one doeling I never applied for papers on, shes ok I just dont like her, freshend with a nice udder I cant sell her for nothing, her half sister (same dam) with papers I have several folks coming this weekend and shes priced at $400. First doeling has a more proven sire with one reserve champion, where as my new buck has yet to be shown.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

Registered only for us. We put so much money into our goats in order to care for them properly that we need to be able to get the higher prices for the kids. Our typical buyer is looking for breeding or show stock, not for just a pet or milk goat.


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## Goat Servant (Oct 26, 2007)

Our main goal is to sell for meat. However all our breeding stock is registered.
We do like to show a few times a year. Registered does not always means show quality.
Just took a mess of bucklings & doelings to the sale barn as the phone didnt ring all weekend prior to Easter.
Got 80-105 pr head.

eta; with the exception of one % doeling with a pair of teats too close everyone was exceptional, just too many to keep.


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## RangerBrad (Aug 15, 2008)

Ask yourself this question, if you were looking at 2 goats, liked them both, all things were equal except one was registered and one was not, which would you chose?

It's true that a registered animal won't eat a bite more than a none registered and in most cases the cheapest thing about keeping an animal is the animal it's self. The simple fact that a goat was registered means that some one thought enough of their animals to spend a little extra time, effort and money on them which is evidence that they probably also ensured their care, health, feeding etc...

If your desire is to start with healthy stock with a resonable expectation of meeting your desired traits with a nominal price diffrence in the long run my question would be, why wouldn't you deal with registered stock? Brad


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

The primary advantage of buying registered animals is in prices that the offspring can bring. You will have kids to sell. IF you have great milkers - AND registered kids - you can more quickly pay for the great milkers' upkeep by selling off their papered kids at higher prices. 

Non-papered kids have to be explained, while papered kids maintain integrity in the bloodline because the owners took the time, energy and expenses to register them. 

Take a little time to understand the ADGA codes and you&#8217;ll appreciate the &#8216;papers&#8217; more by recognizing the lineage of your prospective new animal. You can predict how the offspring will perform or add traits to your herd. When you spend money to buy, raise and use the animal in a productive capacity, then having that information in a formal manner (papers) is comforting.

THERE is also some level of satisfaction in having your farm name on YOUR animals. Smile.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I'm sorry & I know that some of you are not aiming your comments at me personally, must just be me today but none of my goats are registered. I have up to date in over 6 years never had a problem selling any kids & no I'm not getting 300.00 or 400.00 a kid but that's OK too.
BUT We do take very good care of our animals, & in most cases spend as much on our goats care, feed, vaccinations, etc. as the rest of you folks.

Some of you are making it sound like if your goats aren't registered or you don't care enough to buy registered or register your stock that your not taking good care of them & that is just not TRUE!

To Knuckledragger, I'm not telling you to buy unregistered goats, I think everyone should do what's best for them & their animals & it also depends on your plans for them. I do think it is most important to buy clean & healthy goats though!


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Well, if it is papered, there is proof of it's progeny. Ultimately, though, registration is more profitable since it appeals to more people. If you've got a goat without papers, you can't sell it for more then $150, whereas we are getting about $250 - $350 for registered milkers.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

Backfourty, exactly how many wonderful people like yourself do you think there is in this world?
Me personally I like the 3 and 400 dollar kid sales this is just as much as a business for me as it is personal, and even with kid sales im still kinda in the red because of the investment I put into them on purchase. I was really loosing my butt on boers even with papers and nice goats. 

No matter as stated before you have to be careful regardless.

Go have another cup of coffee


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## CustomDesign (Jan 9, 2009)

None of ours are registered, some we would have been able to register and chose not to. We concentrate on health and quality milk production for families, and are always well pleased every year that we find homes for the babies with people who want to start producing their own milk supply. I keep prices low enough that the new owners benefit as well as ourselves. I guess its where the priorities lie, but it makes me feel good inside when I know others are interested in providing the milk for their families. Nothing wrong with folks registering and making more $$, but each one has to decide what's best for them.


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## saanengirl (Apr 7, 2009)

Registration is not just about money (although it can help), it is primarily about record keeping. When you register a goat, you have a record of the breeding for many generations, which can help you choose what goat to breed it to in the future, and potentially help you avoid problems that are known to be in particular lines. The performance records of goats that have been on DHI test or appraised are there for you to look at so you can evaluate the quality of the bloodlines you are getting, particularly if you are buying kids and cannot see udders. Even if the doe doesn't freshen with the udder that her lines tell you she should have, she is likely to pass on at least some of those good characteristics of her ancestors to her offspring. 

If you are new to goats and are looking for good quality stock, it will be easier to find good milkers with correct conformation that are registered than otherwise. It will also be easier to find registered herds that test for various diseases than unregistered herds that test. 

Registration is no guarantee, but it provides a paper trail. Paper trails are important if you don't know the specific lines you are dealing with, particularly if you are unfamiliar with raising goats.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Yes, there are responsible breeders/owners who do not register their goats. I've met a few on this forum, Backfourty included. 

HOWEVER, the vast majority of the people with unregistered goats are often ignorant to the care of goats. I'm sorry - it IS a trend I've seen through talking to other owners, chatting at feed mills, looking at sale ads etc. 

That is not to say that I haven't found people with registered goats that have no business raising them, too. 

Heck, I wouldn't buy from the vast majority of goat farms in the US, most likely... I require disease testing and way too many raisers haven't a clue about CL/CAE/Johne's when I ask.  Number one priority is disease free - registration papers don't guarantee that an animal is healthy, quality, or productive, and that is a point to keep in mind. They are good for sales, performance programs, and recordkeeping.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

My goats are not registered. My life revolves around them and their health and happiness are the most important. Papers on any animals has never been important to me or impressed me. I see too many registered, pure bred animals with terrible health issues. 
Also I have seen registered horses and dogs living in horrific conditions, with little to none care given to them


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## goatkid (Nov 20, 2005)

I prefer registered Purebred/American or recorded grade goats. Sure, they all bring the same amount at an auction. There, most go for meat with the remainder going for pets, weed eaters, family milkers and to feed bum lambs. I prefer not to resort to selling my does and doelings at the sale barn. I work hard to breed the quality if animals I have and don't want my milkers going for only $40 each. Many of the people who buy my goats don't ever transfer their papers, but they do want decent quality, healthy animals. I show my goats, so of course they need to have papers.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

I hate to say it. . .but if someone can't afford a $300 goat. . .they likely will not be in goats long because they are costly creatures if you're breeding quality animals. . .
a few wethers, heck. . . that is a different story. . .

If you're talking pets. . who cares if that have paperwork? I wouldn't. It really doesn't matter. . .at all.

If you're talking breeding - most animals shouldn't be bred that are registered, but typically, unless for meat, almost never without - selling them is difficult and quality homes are too hard to come by. . .I've bred unregistered goats when I started out - I quickly sold them and got out of that. Not worth it.

I cannot afford to keep my herd unless my kids bring me registered prices. . .also, regardless of there being an exception - people who are willing to invest the time and money and know how are typically only going to be able to put that effort in if they are getting registered kid prices . . .so your high quality animals will always be from registered stock, by and large. . . 

Do poorly bred animals exist that are registered? Goodness, yes! Are the best exmaples stock of these species basically always registered, though? Yes.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

RangerBrad said:


> Ask yourself this question, if you were looking at 2 goats, liked them both, all things were equal except one was registered and one was not, which would you chose?


If the prices were the same, I'm pretty sure everyone would chose the one with papers. BUT... if the papers cost an extra $350, then I'd be taking the equal but unpapered one home. Papers are not that important to me.


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## jamjam (Dec 29, 2009)

I resent it when people say that because your goats are not registered they are not taken care of. I have a small herd of nubians, all purebred but not registered. They get the best of care because I love them all.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

It just depends on your goals. If you want to show, then you want registered. If you just want reasonably priced goats to start your own herd for milk/meat for personal use, then it doesn't matter.


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## coso (Feb 24, 2004)

You can't have purebred without being registered. The registration is what proves the purebred lineage.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

jamjam said:


> I resent it when people say that because your goats are not registered they are not taken care of. I have a small herd of nubians, all purebred but not registered. They get the best of care because I love them all.


I don't like that either and it actually sounds rather snooty to me.


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## mabeane (Jun 5, 2010)

I don't like that either and it actually sounds rather snooty to me.

________________
Yup me, too.__


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

(Edited to say: it may seem like a rant, but it's really not, just a calm explanation of my opinion.  It's hard to encorporate tone via typed word. )

None of mine are registered. It does not affect the care they recieve from me. None of my animals have registration papers. The rabbits have pedigrees, but they are not registered.

I cannot afford a $300 goat. I had to wait until I could find a local breeder who was selling her mostly nubian( with a little bit of alpine in the background) goats. I contacted her a while ago and explained the situation the goats would be coming to(correct setup, environment, LGD on guard and the correct feed) and then wait for some to become available. I had a doeling on reserve and because the breeder decided to downsize and make room for the upcoming doelings, she sold me Pippi and Amelia too in a package deal for $150. Granted they need some groceries and deworming and probably some copper, Pippi still graciously gives a quart on top of what she gives her daughter. I was very thankful to the breeder for supplying me with my very first dairy goats, when I probably would have had to wait for couple of years to afford a $300 goat. I am thankful to the farm I traded my flock of geese to for a big beautiful Boer doe and they threw in a wonderful LGD puppy. I am very blessed and I'm grateful. Do I spend more than that to care for said animals, of course, but $300 a goat on top of a feed bill is just a little too much. Do I eventually plan to get registered stock? Probably because I may want to dabble in showing one day.

I have met plenty of registered and unregistered stock owned by ignorant owners. Are papered goats more valuable? Certainly if you want to show, but to I'd have to disagree that a high price and a piece of papers will protect them from neglect. I personally know people who have dropped $1200 on a puppy they ordered offline and then kept it locked in a kennel and then got rid of it before it was a year old because they deemed it unruly. They repeated this process 3 times before deciding they just didn't want a dog. I've rescued horses that were once show horses and triple registered and was once a highly sought after breeding animal, but their current owner moved and left the horses in their corrals to starve to death. Some people have no respect for animals no matter how valuable they are..

I'm not taking it personal, just saying try not to generalize. I would hate to think somone believed that I didn't care for my animals because none of them have papers.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

Even if my goats were registerd, folks around here just don't have $300.00 & $400.00 for a kid or two. That doesn't mean they won't take care of them, they just don't have that kind of money to spend on goats for their family.

Times are hard & even before the economy took a turn for the worse we were the poorest county in the state if I recall that correctly.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

jamjam said:


> I resent it when people say that because your goats are not registered they are not taken care of. I have a small herd of nubians, all purebred but not registered. They get the best of care because I love them all.


I actually know people who have registered stock, champion lines, and take awful horrid care of their goats. Skinny goats with snot hanging on their noses and on the fences, dead goats in the pens, etc. Sad. 
So, registered or not, is not a definite way to tell the level of care.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Creamers said:


> I hate to say it. . .but if someone can't afford a $300 goat. . .they likely will not be in goats long because they are costly creatures if you're breeding quality animals. . .


Only if one has plenty of spare cash to put into the goats. I wouldn't think of spending that much on one goat's feed; that's more than what we spend on dairy cow feed.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

> not registered they are not taken care of


I did not say this is always the case, but it is usually the case. . .
When people call me asking for a cheap goat, and they do not care if it is papered, even if I had such a goat, which I would not sell to them - 
Just like with my rescue. . .when someone calls asking about adopting a "Free horse" - I tell them I have nothing for adoption. . .
It isn't always accurate, that is true, but it certainly is accurate often enough for it to be considered typical.



> I actually know people who have registered stock, champion lines, and take awful horrid care of their goats


But it isn't typical. . .and that is the point.



> You can't have purebred without being registered. The registration is what proves the purebred lineage.





> I hate to say it. . .but if someone can't afford a $300 goat. . .they likely will not be in goats long because they are costly creatures if you're breeding quality animals. . .


I know what is costs be to care for my herd - and I stand by this 100% - if I cannot afford to pay that for a goat, I honestly would never be able to maintain a herd in good health. . .that statement is made because It has proven true here for me. . .

I have gotten good deals on quality animals - and I'm always happy about it - but I never personally buy anything unregistered in the goat world. Wouldn't consider it because in ORDER to keep the herd I have, I HAVE to be able to do two things - sell the kids for a good price and sell to the type of home I feel comfortable selling to - the registered kid selling for a good price helps on both ends.
Here, unregistered kids sell for $75 - that is a doeling . . .I have never seen them for more. 
Unregistered does with kids - a pair - might run $125
- - - How can anyone afford to breed and care for them if they are an average farm? 
Registered kids bring $250 and up - way up, depending - 
A Registered doe in milk - $350-400, on average. . .

A registered (even recorded) doe will have or have lines that have have DHIR, LA, Sire Summaries, Performance Reports, USDA-AIPL genetic evaluations are all info that tells you a lot about what you're buying - that is worth the increased cost in and of its self - for me. . . 

If you're really just looking to not sell kids, only eat them and use milk - then buy unregistered. . .

I can't see a typical breeder putting in time to find, care for and breed the sounded goat they can unless they register them - has it happened? I'm sure - is it likely or typical. . .no.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

You are making perfect sense. Also, in a lot of situations, you are willing to go the extra mile to ensure that your herd name stays in good image. And yes, unregistered animals is not the way to go if profitability is your goal. We have actually had a harder time making the goats profitable unlike the cattle, mainly because the goats require far higher inputs of fencing. You can toss cattle in a field with rusty barnwire and a strand of polywire for MIG, whereas goats require fencing for rabbits. :stars:


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Maybe it's just me, but I feel better selling registered animals to people who will pay more. I guess I have this idea that they're more likely to take good care of a registered animal that they paid well for than a $50 "nanny" that will probably end up on a dog chain mowing a lawn.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

> Maybe it's just me, but I feel better selling registered animals to people who will pay more. I guess I have this idea that they're more likely to take good care of a registered animal that they paid well for than a $50 "nanny" that will probably end up on a dog chain mowing a lawn.


exactly - doesn't mean everyone who gets a good deal with do it, but it just too likely for my taste.


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## Rockytopsis (Dec 29, 2007)

Registered goats sell well if there is a demand in your area for registered goats. In my area of Tennessee it is more about the meat as it is illegal to sell raw milk in Tennessee. I have some papered and mostly not papered. I have some BP's and FB's. The goat that is going to freezer camp gets the same treatment as on who will live there life on my farm.
. 
You could check with your local Ag. Agent to see if there is a local marked for papered goats. You could search for local goat shows and talk to local folks there. You could contact local 4H clubs and see if there is interest in papered goats.

If I had the money I spent on papered goats I could pay my car off, still have 2 years to go on that.
Nancy


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

We have registered goats but I still don't sell for 300 to 400 a kid. Our doelings sell for 125.00 to 150.00 and I am willing to work a discount if they are buying more than one. This is as long as they are picked up in the first two weeks. 

For our does, we paid virtually nothing for Jewels' mother who was unregistered but we got recorded as a grade so that Jewels can be registered as a grade. 

Our most expensive doe was Tally, bought at 6 months old for 175.00. Hershey we bought for 125.00. Hershey and Tally both are registered and CAE neg so it doesn't take an expensive animal to be free of disease.

We traded lessons in blood drawing, shaving,hoof trimming,bolusing,etc for Bella. For Rio we traded a buckling for a buckling. 

We want to keep our prices on our kids fairly low simply because we ourselves don't have much money. It pushed us to be able to afford Tally's price tag. It was great to be able to get Hershey for the price we did and this spring, if we hadn't worked out a trade, there wouldn't have been any new goats here this year other than what was born here. BUT where we really can't afford a 300.00 to 400.00 price tag, our goats get the best of care. And we know there are plenty of others out there without the resources to pay out a large sum of money for the initial purchase.But that doesn't mean they are any more likely to mistreat the goats they buy than the people who pay out lots of money. For some, paying 125.00 for a goat is the equivalent household budget hit of someone else with more money, paying out a 1,000. So never assume that someone who can't afford a lot won't care for the goat. 

People always say to buy the best goat you can afford. For some, they can't afford that much. By keeping my prices lower, people are able to get registered goats, that are disease tested that they can actually afford.


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