# young horse training ?



## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

As I mentioned in my first thread ("I bought my first horse"), I have my first horse and she's very young. She's 9 months old now. I only feel comfortable doing this because the stable owner is mentoring me. The past couple of evenings, I've got to the stable after Judy already left. I figured, rather than interrupting her family time, I'd pick your brains tonight.

Ona still has a bond with her dam, and their stalls are side by side. I lead her around inside the barn every night. She's always fine heading away from her dam but when we turn back around and she can see her, she gets really happy to see her dam and wants to walk back too fast. 

I've been turning her in circles whenever she gets going too quick, to slow her down. She just recently started doing this thing, though - the moment she feels the pressure on the lead when I'm getting ready to turn her, she turns herself. She runs a very fast circle around me and then starts heading forward again. She gets going so fast that I'm afraid she's going to hurt me. Twice, I got scared and let go of the lead and she ran back to her dam. That is really setting a bad precedent and I'm afraid I'm going to teach her that she can escape from me.

She's not trying to misbehave. She comes right back to me and does not resist walking with me some more. I think she's just getting a step ahead of me. She's very responsive, and it seems like she has a lot of fun turning.

On our last walk back to her stall I kept turning her just a little and then saying "whoa" and making her stop, turning a little more, "whoa" again - but after about the 4th "whoa" I could tell she was going to get all excited and start turning fast again so I brought her back to her stall.

Do you have any suggestions how I can slow her down without getting hurt? I'm no spring chicken - don't want to break anything!


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## Waiting2Retire (Jan 14, 2013)

If you allow her to circle you, she is telling you she is your boss. Instead, walk in a circle around her, that way you are telling her you are her boss. The first several times you do this she is going to try to out circle you (maybe). Also, when you are walking with her, be patient. anytime you stop, she should stop also, and not walk ahead of you. Look into teaching a horse to lunge, the part about breathing , I believe it is called heeting. Basically, everytime you stop walking, exhale with sound. When she stops with you and doesnt walk in front of you, give her a good scratch or praise in some manner that she likes. Eventually, she will stop when you make the exhale, which is great when you are riding her later on.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Thank you so much! I get what you are saying. I think, when I turn her, I should always be walking on the outside of the circle instead of having her circle me - that means I have to be in front of her. What should I do when she tries to out circle me?

I will look up heeting - it sounds like something I definitely want to learn.

Thanks again.


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

Main thing to remember is to make the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult and you may have to get creative, but allowing her to race around you and/or let go of the lead, you just lost and she's learned if she does that you're going to let go and she gets to go where she wants.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I would get the owner to show you how she teaches "whoa" ... and enforces it. I'm not sure what she would do in your situation (filly pushing to go back to her dam) but you do need to establish that YOU are the one in charge and you will go at your speed, not hers and it will work better if both of you are handling the situation in the same way and giving the same cues.

Lots of things will work. With a young horse, especially, I will circle a horse and I will stand on the inside and make them circle around me, it is easier for me (short and older and slower) to stay in control. I do not allow just one circle and then straight ahead, however, I keep them circling until they are ready to stop. I then stop them with "whoa" facing the direction away from the way they were going, make them stand, then turn and start back. If they try the rushing again, repeat.

With a older horse that 'should' know better and has just had a lapse of memory (or a stallion that has had a short circuit in his brain) I will be sure I have a chain over the nose for reinforcement (if necessary) and will simply say 'whoa' and make them stand. Turn facing in the opposite direction, if necessary, but whoa and stand.


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## GrannieD (Sep 13, 2003)

Just curious ---Why did you choose a baby as your 1st horse...esp. considering the constant reminder from those experienced with training that novices with green horses are likely to get in trouble at some point..A coach can give pointers,but can't make you read a horse if you have no experience..Everything you are doing is teaching your filly...Hope you get it right for both of you..GrannieD


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## loli (Aug 14, 2011)

Clinton Anderson has a really good DVD about messing with horses this age. It is easy to understand and anyone can learn to use his methods. I am thinking it is time to start putting a little space between her and her dam in the barn.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

SFM, I did try making her continue to circle around me and she loved it. She had an absolute blast. :spinsmiley:  I got very dizzy and almost fell over! That was one of the two times I let go of the lead.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I'll get that DVD Loli - thanks! Yeah, we need to break that bond.

ETA - Amazon.com is sold out


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Work on whoa and back near momma's stall where she's calm and listening to you. Once she knows the meaning and can perform those two tasks then start leading her away. Short distances so that when you lead her back she's not trying to run back. If she walks too fast try making her back up instead of circling since that gets her more excited. Praise her when she does it right. As she gets more comfortable extend the distance you go from the dam's stall. 

She's probably going to buddy up with whoever is in the next stall. At that age they tend to be more dependent on their "herd". Using her dam now to teach her these lessons will help her separate from any buddy. Make yourself her herd leader so that she feels safe with you and more importantly respects you. Hard to explain how to do that because different things work for different people. What has always worked for me was to not let them get by with being disrespectful in the first place and their forms of punishment were as close as I could mimic how their moms or other herd members corrected them. 

Oh, and the circling thing...I get dizzy too so I learned to stand facing forward and then just switching the lead rope from hand to hand while they do all the moving.


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## Harmony_Meadows (Nov 4, 2007)

If you have access to both sides of where mama is, I would suggest that you walk right past her, tie her on the other side of mama, groom a bit. Walk back to the stall, if she rushes, move past mama tie up on the other side, brush. Etc, etc. In place of brushing you can work on backing up or whatever, but make sure she knows that if she rushes, the lesson wont end. Once she walks calmly to her stall, lesson over and she can go away. One caveat...if she is going to get really wound up by not being put away, you may want to only to this with guidance, especially the first time.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Thanks, Teej. I will try those things.I thought that, by boarding her at the stable and having a mentor so easily available, i would be able to avoid any problems with her. I knew better than to take on a young horse on my own. I am so afraid i will teach her wrong. At the moment she really has a lot of excess energy. She can't be turned out with the herd yet and we can't turn her out with her dam. There are other young horses there and she was being turned out in a paddock with them, but she is so big for her age. They are so tiny next to her. There is only one that is safe to turn out with her. When she is turned out alone i don't think she gets enough energy out. Then when i get there she is full of vinegar.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Harmony, we must both have insomnia tonight. Thanks for your suggestions, they sound easy.


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

When I read a thread such as this I always find myself wondering if people are really prepared to make the committement needed to care for a colt or adult horse. It takes time, money and a whole lot of effort to achieve much success with any horse. ffarmergirl, you will likely need some dedicated help with your colt and I hope you are in a position to find that help.

The first thing I would ask somebody in this position is "how was the colt weaned"? Has it ever been seperated from it's dam? Many problems with older horses were created by incorrect weaning and often that leads to a ruined horse. Do a search on weaning a colt, halter breaking a colt etc. and you will find much information that might help.

Good luck with your colt, but please don't fool yourself by thinking this is going to be an easy or inexpensive undertaking. It frankly just doesn't work like that. I mean no disrespect in my answer and will honestly try to help you find the info you need to have good results.

Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

fffarmergirl said:


> SFM, I did try making her continue to circle around me and she loved it. She had an absolute blast. :spinsmiley: I got very dizzy and almost fell over! That was one of the two times I let go of the lead.


Ah, yes ... one reason I have never made a good instructor ... I've been there/done that so much I always forget part of the instructions because it's been automatic for me to do it 'that' way for 40 years!

Teej's mention of standing still, not turning, solves the dizzy problem. Also if the circling doesn't seem to work, backing up and continuing to back up for fairly long distances (length of the barn alleyway at least) and then stopping and standing quietly may work better. Backing is more difficult for them. Be aware also that they will sometimes work themselves up into a *tizzy* because they aren't progressing in the direction they want to go when they are circling, going faster and faster, which you can interpret as liking to circle, when that really isn't what is going on in their head.

In my mind, regardless of what method you end up using, the most important part of this training, is the stop instantly and stand quietly under any circumstances. Rushing, like any other 'misbehavior' needs to be corrected instantly ... as in two quick steps, 'whoa' and if no stop, circle or back.

I also prefer my horses to lead with their 'face' at my shoulder, I don't want to be behind their head or at their shoulder and I know many people do lead a horse this way. One trick I've used successfully with an older horse who has been trained to lead in a more forward position, is to make sure I've got a long, heavy cotton lead rope so I've got about 3 feet of extra lead rope and I will whirl this around in front of me, hard, as I'm walking after I put the horse where I want them. If they get a little too forward, the end of the leadrope will bop them in the nose ... a few times is usually enough for a sensible, well broke horse to figure out their nose doesn't get bopped if they keep it at my shoulder. I will say, however, this isn't something I commonly use with youngsters. They haven't learned enough about training for this to be as effective.


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## SDjulieinSC (Aug 8, 2005)

When you are heading back to her stall are you walking her with your lead having tension in the line to her halter the whole time?? Try walking her on a lose lead and giving her a quick firm downward snap when she tries to get in front of you. This will get her attention focused back on you.... put your finger across the bridge of your nose and apply pressure, just leave it there, kind of annoying but no big deal. Now take your finger off and "flick" that same spot on your nose, gets your attention a little more right?! We can't hope to bully them into doing things our way so we need to get them to pay more attention to us than whatever issure they seem to find more interesting. I find that a light but firm hand on a lose lead is my best friend. I train Arabian halter weanlings...that aren't really weaned! Talk about babies ready to get back to mama! I hope this helps you as much as it helps me. It's so much fun when it clicks!


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## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

Has she ever been completely separated from her dam (so they can't see/hear/smell each other)? Why can't she be turned out with her dam? If she has been weaned for more than 3-4 weeks they should be fine together. 

My first suggestion would be to get a book or do research on round penning, and EVERY time you work with her, start with round pen work to get some of that energy out and get her paying attention to you. If you don't have a round pen, a small paddock can work fine. I have done lots of round pen work with young and mature horses, so PM me if you want to talk, I would be happy to. 

My second suggestion is, at least for now, don't try to work with her by yourself. Perhaps brainstorm with your mentor 3-4 times per week when you can both be available to work with your filly (or your mentor can at least be available to supervise). At this age, things can get out of hand really fast, and while your intentions might be good, it's not hard to turn a young horse that hasn't been handled much into a rude, pushy horse that can walk all over you. Turning a young horse that hasn't been handled much into a gentle, respectful partner can be a project, even for experienced trainers. You need to set boundaries, and at your level of experience that is something you will probably need help with.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

First I would go to your mentor and ask what they do. Have them demonstrate how they work with her to get her to walk calmly and have them work with you until you can do what they are doing. 

Second, get that Clinton Anderson CD, he stresses safety for you and for your horse and getting good manners and a calm horse. You will learn a lot. Try ebay, maybe you can get it used. You can try his website too.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

fffarmergirl said:


> Thanks, Teej. I will try those things.I thought that, by boarding her at the stable and having a mentor so easily available, i would be able to avoid any problems with her. I knew better than to take on a young horse on my own. I am so afraid i will teach her wrong. At the moment she really has a lot of excess energy. She can't be turned out with the herd yet and we can't turn her out with her dam. There are other young horses there and she was being turned out in a paddock with them, but she is so big for her age. They are so tiny next to her. There is only one that is safe to turn out with her. When she is turned out alone i don't think she gets enough energy out. Then when i get there she is full of vinegar.


 
Try to get the barn owner to keep her out as much as possible. Not being able to burn up their excess energy on their own is a big factor when it comes time for training sessions. 

Why can't she be turned out with the other youngsters? Unless the others are new babies, size shouldn't matter. Heck one year I bred my gaited pony and though that filly was the smallest in size she was the biggest bully of that year's foal crop. The only time I worry about size difference is with my mini's. None of them are intermingled with the full sized horses.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

That baby has too much energy to be paying much attention to you. She needs time out every day to run and play and be a horse.

You also need to get that DVD on handling young horses. Mentor or not, a young horse is really not a good idea as a first horse. Heck, I know people that have owned horses for 10 years or more than won't take on a young horse because they take a lot of work in teaching basic manners. Just when you think they are doing well, they act exactly like a young horse and forget all that training and act like a fool.

If this is your only horse, you have a good 2 or 3 years before you can even think of riding. You will have to have someone train her under saddle. With a mature horse that is already trained, you can ride once a week or once a month. With a young horse, you will have to ride several times a week or they seem to 'forget' their training. Even then, they will test you and you have to be prepared to correct that.

But, you've already got her so educate yourself on raising a baby. As you're seen, your mentor is not always there when you need her. So, you need to be prepared for when she does something so you know what to do.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

With horses, a bad experience can haunt you for a very long time. A horse that learns a way to spin around you and get away, will. Just because she comes back, after she has shown you she is boss, is not a good thing. 
Breaking a horse to lead is best done in a way she can not get away. That is normally when they are too small to over power the human. You may be past that time. A horse needs to learn to respect your space. 
Most horses want to get back with the other horses, a baby more so. 
There are lots of other things you can do. Brushing and touching all over gets her calmed to you being around. If you can resist the strangth of the colt, try picking up a hoof. Remember the lesson is to teach her to hold her hoof up for trimming, not teaching you that she can put her foot down against your will. If you can't do it, don't screw it up by letting her prove she can get away with it. Will she stand tied to a post in her stall?
I have a colt that will be 1 year old in March and he is broke to lead, loads into a trailer, holds his feet up for trimming, holds still when I put a halter on him. I had to start early, because he is a Percheron and became stronger than me a while ago. But by starting early, he doesn't know he is stronger now.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I just spent over an hour typing up a rsponse to all of your helpful responses and went to submit it and lost it! 

So . . . . . I'll try to summarize really quick. Thank all of you very, very much for your help!

I did explain in my other thread how I wound up with Ona and what kind of circumstances we have here. My neighbor, Judy, is a professional ferrier and has been breeding, raising, training and showing horses for over 30 years. I don't think I've ever met a more dedicated horse person. She can't ride or show horses any more because of an injury. About 50% of the time, she's still in the barn when I get there. The other 50% of the time I'm late getting off of work and I get there just after she's shut the barn door and gone inside to make dinner. That's why I want to be able to come in here to ask questions once in a while . . . the woman deserves to eat her dinner with her family.

Ona is an absolutely wonderful, gorgeous horse (but maybe I'm biased). She has been handled since the moment she was born. She is halter broken. I just bought her, but I've been spending a lot of time with her for the past 3 months. Even when she's in the pasture, she runs up to me and puts her nose right into the halter. I groom her almost every day. She has had her feet trimmed, etc. I think she's right on track - she's just recently decided to forget everything she ever learned and start challenging me and getting pushy.

Of course, until recently she's had enough exercise and hasn't been filled with too much energy when I got there. A number of factors combined to lead to her not getting enough excercise recently. She was weaned late . . . she's her dam's last foal and she was up for sale, but then I bought her and now she has to be in the same barn with her dam until we get set up for horses over here in the Spring. She's never been completely separated from her dam, who is 24 years old and needs to be in the barn right now getting supplements etc. Then, we got this cold weather (a couple of days of -20 wind chills then a bunch of snow). Then she decided to start bullying one of the other babies when they were being turned into the indoor paddock together. . . She's HUGE. Her hind end is over 14 hands already. Etc etc.

So, anyway. Today Judy brought us out into the paddock (is that what you call the big indoor area in the barn?) and taught me a few things. I was letting Ona get away with some behaviors that I thought were cute, but which were actually disrespectful. She showed me how to make her stop doing those things. She showed me how to help her work out her excess energy before attempting any more ground work with her. She showed me how to swing the rope between us and in front of Ona while I'm leading her to prevent her from rushing. By the time we were done, Ona was licking and chewing and being her regular adorable self. I, on the other hand, still need a lot of work. . . . which is why I hope I will be able to come on here and ask a lot more questions. I do not want to overtax Judy.

I am absolutely getting that Clinton Anderson CD set on handling foals, weanlings, and yearlings, too, by the way. Thank you.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

fffarmergirl, ask all the questions you want. I tell every newbie I ever work with to ask all the horse people they know questions. Ask 20 people the same question and you're likely to get 20 different answers. Remember them all, pick out the one that makes the most sense to YOU, and try it. If that doesn't work move on to next suggestion. Sometimes combining some of those answers is what works best. Sometimes what works on one horse won't work on another. 

Knowledge is a good thing as well as experience and you're acquiring both right now. Just absorb it all and hang in there. While I don't usually advocate an unbroke horse for an inexperienced horseman/woman, I'm not going to discourage a person who has already chosen that route. My first two were broke but "problem children" and my third was an untrained (as in wasn't even good at leading yet) 2 year old and it made me learn fast. It's ok to make mistakes, you may have to spend extra time undoing those mistakes, but they can be undone.


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## lathermaker (May 7, 2010)

Step one. Move the colt away from the mare. It sounds like this one has never been fully weaned.

You've let the horse go back to it's dam twice...you've already taught it that you're NOT the boss! If you let a horse get by with bad behavior it will take ten times as much work to unlearn that behavior.

Honestly, you need a fully mature horse that is already trained, not a filly to start out with. Take off your rose colored glasses. I can see where you might end up getting hurt by this animal. 

I worked for years in a training stable and saw allll kinds of bad things happen to people that got in over their heads. You might want to seriously rethink this situation. Not having this filly fully weaned sets off a red flag to me about the trainer.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm going to continue attempting to work with Ona for at least 20 minutes a day, every day, until either it works out or it doesn't. I'm going to apply what I've learned and prevent her from running back to her dam again. If she gets more pushy insteady of less pushy, then that will be my sign that it is not working out. I will stop before she's ruined. I have a good support system. I don't think Judy will allow me to ruin her.

Judy will most likely be with me tonight when I go there but I want to get this down pat, in my head.

Here's the basic plan - please correct me if I got anything wrong. I got a lot of information in a short amount of time, both here and during my lesson yesterday. So - if I was going to be there alone, this is what I would do:

Open the door to the paddock. Put Ona in her halter and lead rope and open her stall door and let her into the paddock. At this point I will not attempt to lead her because she's going to be exhuberant and if she rushes me and gets away, that will teach her a bad lesson. Each and every time I'm holding on to that lead rope, her attention needs to be on me and she needs to be doing what I tell her to do and only what I tell her to do. 

Let her run around in the paddock while I clean her stall.

Go out in the paddock and make sure she's got all that excess energy out. Swing the rope toward her, make noise, keep her going until she's licking and chewing and I decide she can come in to me. Then stop the rope-swinging and noise making and stand still and let her approach me. If she starts rubbing her face against me, push it away. Take her lead rope and make her stand still. If she takes a step forward, make her back up and then tell her to stand still again. When she is nice and still and quiet, give her scratches and loving. _ Keep doing this for how long? How do I know when the lesson is over?_

_After the lesson maybe I'll run her around a little more, make sure we've got out the excess energy totally before attempting to lead her back to her stall._

Lead her back next to her stall. Keep her head arm's length away and push her face away if she tries to rub it against me. Keep swinging the rope between us and just a little in front of her, being careful not to hit her with it because she wouldn't respond well to that yet. Do not let her even think about rushing. If she starts to rush, pull down hard and fast on the head rope and shout "NO!" and startle her a little. Make her stop and back up. When she stands still, praise her scratch her and lead her forward again. Repeat as necessary. It's a short trip so this should get us there without her getting away from me.

Tie her just out side of her stall and brush her. If she lifts her leg in a threat, rise up and shout "NO!" and go back to brushing the spot she has just recently decided she doesn't like me to brush. I won't worry about getting her perfectly clean unless she's enjoying it. I will make sure to end it on a good note - when she's standing nicely and letting me brush her. Then I will give her scratches and love and put her back in her stall and give her some hay.

Good? Bad? Mistakes?


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

It sounds like you have "try" ffarmergirl which is a neccesary part of success. As for plans I've found they rarely work with horses, particuarily a youngster. I don't set goals but reward each succesful "step" my horse takes, unless it's whoa in which case I reward the "non step". I'm not very popular with humans and their horsemenship problems since I often tell folks the things they don't want to hear. Again I mean no disrespect.


First, I've read your recent posts and still find myself questioning how your colt was weaned. Weaning is a very important process and often handled incorrectly which often ends up with a useless horse. I urge you to find out how this was accomplished with your colt.

Second, learn to seperate bs from actual experience. I often find that many horse owners who have owned horses for decades actually have little true knowledge or experience to offer a horse. Owning horses for a long time does not mean the people are good horsemen. Tom Dorrance (google) would say, "observe, compare, remember". Start learning how to do this.

Third, with your situation in mind, I ask you if your mother ever said, "I've about reached the end of my rope". That phrase is an old horsemans expression and is one of the things your colt and you don't understand together. Your colt needs to learn that the rope has an end and when he reaches it he will find a firm pull on his nose. Don't let him pull away from you. Prevent it from happening by keeping that nose tilted toward you while you lead him.

Fourth, understand that working with young horses is likely to create some high energy situations which can be very harmful to an unskilled handler. When you start "asking for more" a colt may well become threatening and can cause the handler physical harm if they aren't able to work through that high energy in a safe and useful manner. Even good experienced horsemen can get killed.

I agree with others who have recommended Clinton Anderson's material. I've found that his ability to make things black or white very useful for many beginners. Horses have only one way to communicate and understand others (human or horse). Those communications come from "feel, timing and balance" and nothing else. (google) 

Have fun with your colt today but don't expect great change. I might recommend that you walk forward two steps, than backward one while you lead him from his stall but without timing and feel it will likely be a meaningless lesson for you or the colt and he will very likely become energetic and disrespectful.

Keep trying and apply yourself to find knowledge from good horsemen. Learn quickly that many that claim to have knowledge, simply don't. The horse knows the difference.


Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

It sounds like you do have a good mentor. Too often we read of people buying a young horse as a first horse with no mentor or the mentor doesn't mentor and the new horse owner is left mostly on their own to figure things out. 

Congratulations on your youngster and I wish you well!


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I have often seen well trained horses outsmart an inexperienced rider. I had a neighbor that loved horses. She bought a nice horse. But after a while, the horse, "tested" her. Didn't take too long before the horse learned he could roll on the ground and he would get to go back to the barn. He was sent for more training and was just fine, until she got back on him. Took a lot of learning on her part to stop this behaviour.

If the horse is doing thigs you find cute, but you ddn't realize the whys and hows of proper behaviour, I fear a "blind leading the blind" situation. You will need to put in a lot of time with your experienced friend. Whatever bad habits or faults your friend has, will be passed on to you and your horse. I hope she is as good as you deserve. 

I was mostly self taught, direct observation and common sense. I wouldn't reccommend that. I hitched horses that were too green, I expected more from my horses than they knew how to give. But I never lost my temper and I spent a lot of time with them. The more you use a horse the better he gets. The better he gets, the more you'll want to use him. 

I won a log skid/obsticle course contest with a pair of 4 year old Percheron mares that hadn't been harnessed in four months. But I had worked them in the woods often and I thought I could do it. It was exciting, no one got hurt, but I would not recommend it.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I only have a few minutes to write and I'm using my smartphone right now, so please forgive any errors in spelling. the question about the weaning has come up frequently. I guess that must mean it's important. Ona has not been completely weaned yet. she and her mother were put in separate stalls 2 weeks ago. the baby acted like she was ready to be weaned. she seemed to have lost interest in her mother for the most part. she was occasionally trying to follow me out of the barn. her mother was not happy about the separation. I'm kind of surprised how ona has been running back to her mother now, because she wasn't so interested in her before.


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## lathermaker (May 7, 2010)

fffarmergirl said:


> I only have a few minutes to write and I'm using my smartphone right now, so please forgive any errors in spelling. the question about the weaning has come up frequently. I guess that must mean it's important. Ona has not been completely weaned yet. she and her mother were put in separate stalls 2 weeks ago. the baby acted like she was ready to be weaned. she seemed to have lost interest in her mother for the most part. she was occasionally trying to follow me out of the barn. her mother was not happy about the separation. I'm kind of surprised how ona has been running back to her mother now, because she wasn't so interested in her before.


Show Horses are normally weaned at 3-6 months...not 9 or when "they" decide to be. Neither one of them are going to be "happy" about the separation. Expect a lot of hell raising on both horses after being separated. The horses need to be separated where they can't see each other...not in adjacent stalls. Do NOT let the filly see the dam at this point in time. It just reinforces that bond.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Can you just leave the horse with the old owners and let them board it until it's ready to go? Your problem is exactly why I'd never get a baby. We've only owned horses for about five years and are nowhere near ready. You can wreck a baby very quickly.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Oh, I intend to keep boarding her there at least until Spring - maybe more permanently. We could build a fence on our property and put a shelter in it and continue boarding her there and just have her turned out in our pasture every day with a couple of their horses for company. I like having her there and I will need the mentorship for several years.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

fffarmergirl said:


> Oh, I intend to keep boarding her there at least until Spring - maybe more permanently. We could build a fence on our property and put a shelter in it and continue boarding her there and just have her turned out in our pasture every day with a couple of their horses for company. I like having her there and I will need the mentorship for several years.


Why don't you just let her be? I think you can do less damage by leaving a baby alone than messing with it incorrectly.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

"I'm kind of surprised how ona has been running back to her mother now, because she wasn't so interested in her before."

While it is a problem that she wants to be with momma,the real concern is that the running back is establishing who's boss. The colt is. Bad habits, even tiny ones become learning impairments faster than you can imagine. 
What is "halter broke", to you?
I think everyone's focus on weining is because that was the first red flag you threw out. It sounded like the horse was misbehaving and getting its way to get away from you and do what she wants. Repeat that a few times and you'll have a horse that no one can manage. 
I'm not scolding you. You are learning. But most would advize you from this challenge. But you took it. You can learn. You will put forth the effort. Vrom the mare's side to following you with a rope is a big adjustment. But you face some big adjustments, too. 
I remember some new neighbors that bought a goat kid. Didn't want to burn off the cute horn buds. The kid was playful. They loved him. They even played games with him. They would shove the heal of their hands against his forehead and he'd push back. Wheeeeeeee.......


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Just got back from visiting Ona and had to come on here an hour later. Am I addicted to talking about stuff or what? Good grief. But anyway . . . 

She was great today. She'd been turned out and had all of her energy worked out of her before I got there. I didn't feel like doing much with her but didn't want to miss a day so I just brought her to the back barn and hand fed her some hay and then walked her back to her stall. She walked back without rushing. Surprised the heck out of me. So I tied her up and brushed her a little and she didn't threaten to kick (she has never actually kicked, by the way). I was freezing, so I just cleaned up her stall and put her back in. Judy said that there was something on her halter that was hurting her and she fixed it earlier today. Come to think of it, her awfulness did start when we changed halters. 


Haypoint - I always thought "halter broke" meant they let you put a halter on them without making you catch them first? 



haypoint said:


> I remember some new neighbors that bought a goat kid. Didn't want to burn off the cute horn buds. The kid was playful. They loved him. They even played games with him. They would shove the heal of their hands against his forehead and he'd push back. Wheeeeeeee.......


That is hilarious! Kind of reminds me of when some farmers tricked my dad into believing that two little billy goats would be great pets for his kids. They also told him that goats didn't have to be fed - they just ate branches and twigs. They never mentioned such a thing as dehorning. Those goats busted down our door to come in the house and eat our food! Every single time we opened the door they would bust in. When we would leave for school in the morning, our mom would have to stand behind us with a broom ready to swing at the goats to beat them back out of the house. Yeah . . . . you would think my dad would have figured it out . . . .



Joshie said:


> Why don't you just let her be? I think you can do less damage by leaving a baby alone than messing with it incorrectly.


I don't know. I don't think you can just let a horse be and expect it to mind you later, can you? It never occurred to me to let her be!


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## Fetherhd (Aug 16, 2012)

An odd question...are you wearing a helmet when working with this filly? A lot of people do not realize that a horse can hurt them seriously even when working on the ground. Please wear a helmet and you might even go a step further and wear a chest guard as young horses can kick without meaning to hurt you.


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## lathermaker (May 7, 2010)

What breed of horse is this filly?


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I was thinking of getting a helmet, actually . . . . .

Lathermaker, she's a quarter horse. Here's her pedigree: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/dunit+ona+chance

She has excellent bloodlines and she's absolutely beautiful. She's descended from some pretty big reining champions. My dream is for Judy's grandson to be competing in reining with her in about 8 years. Gavin is already barrell racing and he's only 6. I've got a grandchild on the way too . . . don't know if he/she will end up to be a horse person! Judy's daughters have raised their own horses from foals and then gone on to show and compete with them.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

You have a good mentor and are doing just fine with your filly. While it doesn't mess them up to just leave them alone, they won't have the manners and whatnot that you would then have to teach to a full grown horse. 

You're not asking much out of her. Just leading her and grooming her. 

Halter broke means she can be lead by halter and lead.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

fffarmergirl said:


> I don't know. I don't think you can just let a horse be and expect it to mind you later, can you? It never occurred to me to let her be!


If I remember correctly, a trainer or two here said they don't mess with babies until they're older because mamas do a good job teaching babies. I think a trainer here said they'd far prefer to train an unhandled horse than a baby who was messed with incorrectly. I don't think it was a good idea for you to get a baby as your first horse. Since you did, I think I'd let it be until it is old enough to train. Of course, you do need to be able to make sure the horse will behave while getting hoof care.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Joshie, ffarmergirl is being mentored by the person she bought the filly from and the filly is boarded at the breeders. While I agree a young horse is not the best for a first time horse owner, it sounds like she has a good handle on this and the breeder is helping her a lot so the baby isn't messed up.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

She was a little sassy for me at the end of our visit today but she didn't act up at all until I started asking a little too much of her. Once again, she went back to her stall without rushing.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

What a cute face she has!


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Cute picture.


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## lathermaker (May 7, 2010)

She was a little sassy for me at the end of our visit today but she *didn't act up at all until I started asking a little too much of her*. Once again, she went back to her stall without rushing.>>> bolding mine

What do you call asking too much?


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

fffarmergirl said:


> Just got back from visiting Ona and had to come on here an hour later. Am I addicted to talking about stuff or what? Good grief. But anyway . . .
> 
> She was great today. She'd been turned out and had all of her energy worked out of her before I got there. I didn't feel like doing much with her but didn't want to miss a day so I just brought her to the back barn and hand fed her some hay and then walked her back to her stall. She walked back without rushing. Surprised the heck out of me. So I tied her up and brushed her a little *and she didn't threaten to kick (she has never actually kicked, by the way).* I was freezing, so I just cleaned up her stall and put her back in. Judy said that there was something on her halter that was hurting her and she fixed it earlier today. Come to think of it, her awfulness did start when we changed halters.
> 
> ...


Another red flag that shouldn't be ignored. Threatening to kick comes just before kick.

Halter broke means much more than putting a halter on and leading the horse. How was the halter "hurting" her and how did Judy fix it? What did you ask of her that was too much? What did Judy say about weaning the colt? Again I mean no disrespect to you. 

There are a couple of people posting that might help you. Listen closely and answer their questions. 

Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Didn't see I had responses until just now, and I'm getting ready to head out the door in 7 minutes.

Ona is doing great. What I call "asking too much" was me believing that Ona had learned one lesson and then moving onto the next lesson without realizing that she had not learned the first lesson and did not know what I wanted her to do. 

The problem with the halter was that it was hurting her nose. Every time I would go to turn her, it would hurt. Judy fixed it so that it fits properly and showed me how I had messed up putting it on. She now checks the halter every time I put it on.

Yes - threatening to kick comes before a kick. Which is why we are dealing with it and training her to accept being touched anywhere we want to touch her, any time we want to touch her, with anything we want to touch her with, without threatening to kick. I believe this is one of the lessons every foal has to learn. They don't squirt out of the womb knowing how to behave for humans.

I started this thread because there were a couple of days that I got to the stable after Judy had gone into her hosue and I had one particular question that needed to be answered. The question was "why is she suddenly turning fast circles around me when I try to turn her." The answer was "her halter was hurting her." It was a simple question and a simple answer that did not require people being judgmental about my horse, the breeder, and the stable.

I did not ask if Judy was weaning her properly. The woman has been breeding, raising, training horses for 31 years. Ona is now weaned, and she is no longer trying to go back to her dam.


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## lathermaker (May 7, 2010)

Horses don't run circles around you because the halter was hurting her. That, is horse---- straight out of the trainers mouth. If the halter was hurting her, she would be backing up trying to get away from the pressure of it, not running around you keeping the pressure on.

The reason the horse is running around you in circles is because you are letting her! Next time she tries to pull this trick, jerk down hard on the lead rope and tell her Whoa. Make her stand still. She tries to move, jerk the lead rope again until you get her attention. It's time to quit babying this animal and teach her some BASIC manners.


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## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

fffarmergirl said:


> I started this thread because there were a couple of days that I got to the stable after Judy had gone into her hosue and I had one particular question that needed to be answered. The question was "why is she suddenly turning fast circles around me when I try to turn her." The answer was "her halter was hurting her." It was a simple question and a simple answer that did not require people being judgmental about my horse, the breeder, and the stable.
> 
> I did not ask if Judy was weaning her properly. The woman has been breeding, raising, training horses for 31 years. Ona is now weaned, and she is no longer trying to go back to her dam.


The halter may have been hurting her, but this was not the cause of her spinning in circles. Those are 2 unrelated issues. Like someone else said, if the problem was caused by the halter hurting her, she would have tossed her head up high and/or pulled back, not circled around you. 

Also, just be aware of the weaning situation. She may not be nursing anymore, but she has never been completely separated from her mother (have you tried leading her out of eyeshot of mom for more than 5 minutes?). This might not seem like a problem right now, but when she's 3 years old and you want to take her to her first show (and she's never been away from mom), you will understand why getting her used to being separated from mom is important at an early age. If I were you, I would just ask Judy about it. Don't approach it like she's doing something wrong, just ask out of curiosity if she has a plan to completely separate them at some point, and when that might be. 

We are not trying to be judgemental, we are trying to help you understand some the many things that are important parts of training babies that beginners don't usually think about. We want you to succeed with Ona. I think you are doing a great job given your experience, and it is wonderful that you have a mentor that's willing to help you. We are here to be your backup. We don't know you and haven't seen your filly or met the breeder. We are here to be your second opinions, which is an extremely valuable resource. Some of what we say you can take with a grain of salt because we don't fully know your situation, and some of it should be taken seriously because lots of folks here have years of experience training young horses and have some great advice to offer. We only want to help!


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Discussions like this are tough. People want to help you. But when you explain, it is tempting to sort of fill in the blanks and jump on what they think you might be doing wrong. Then you have to explain that isn't what you meant or what they assumed. They get frustrated because you won't listen and you get frustrated because they won't hear you. Add to the fact that you are in an area you know little and are trying to un-learn things that feel right, learn things that may be complicated. All this while trying to teach a large powerful animal with a natural flight reflex that hasn't had to do anything but eat, nurse and watch momma.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Thanks for continuing to talk! This horse is the center of my world right now and I can't get enough of talking about her, thinking about her, grooming her, training her. She came into my life when I wasn't even looking for a horse - and I can't explain the impact.

Ona has reminded me, over and over, that if I don't stay on top of things every day, she will push her boundaries. I can definitely understand why people say an inexperienced person should never work with babies because it's a constant balance between enjoying her and keeping her from stepping over the line. Babies are so adorable and everything they do is so cute, and it is so easy to accept a behavior from them without considering the impact. An experienced horse person will have experienced the consequences of allowing a horse to get out of line - and they'll never forget the impact that can have.

I've always had a respect for horses and other large animals. My father owned a slaughter house and I was allowed to work with him from the age of 6. Horses are not cows or buffalo, but I saw enough of what kicks can do. A buffalo almost killed him once. His teeth were smashed so far into his skull that if they had gone in another 1/4 inch he would have been dead. He required major surgery and lost all of his teeth from this when he was only in his 30s. I observed _enough_ unwise behavior in the presence of large animals.

The more she grows, the more I realize how dangerous Ona could be if things are not done right. I've had to tell myself "she's no longer an adorable baby, she is a very large powerful animal" and that's kind of heart breaking. I've been a little scared of her, and this has made me emotional and I admit I do get a little defensive.

When Judy's with me while I'm working with Ona, she constantly has to remind me "don't let her do that!" "The second she even thinks about it, correct her - and then don't forget to praise her and pet her." I feel great about everything after working with Ona while Judy's there. Then, I go and try to work with her by myself and another situation arises, and I don't know what to do. I spend the rest of the day saying "I'm in over my head, I'll never be able to do this without Judy, I shouldn't have got a horse." Then, the next day, I tell Judy what went wrong and she shows me what to do and Ona takes 2 steps forward. It's two steps forward, one step back, constantly.

Nobody (ETA nobody without experience) should ever even consider getting a baby without boarding her at the trainer and having the trainer there with you at least 75% of the time you're working with the horse. In the 25% of the time I'm working alone with her I make so many mistakes, but they are important for me to make, because that's how I learn. The whole next session with the trainer concentrates on those mistakes and how to correct them.



Although I haven't worked with horses in the past, it is my opinion that her weaning went perfectly. Before we even separated them into separate stalls, I was taking Ona out of her dam's sight. She was excited to have fun with me, and then excited to see her mama again. She's a pretty independent girl. She's no longer any more interested in her mother than she would be in any other horse she spent a lot of time with and it looks like her mother is already cycling again. They've been kept in adjacent stalls but it's working out fine and I don't see any reason to change it. It's not causing problems and Ona no longer tries to get back to her dam when I take her to the back barn to work with her.

I know it sounds crazy - but this horse is my life right now. Of all times for a horse to get 100% of a person's spare time and attention, this time period is probably the best. She's very moldable right now.

I'd like to be able to share each 2 steps forward and each 1 step back.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

_1 step back, the day before yesterday_

I went alone to take Ona into the back barn to get some excess energy out of her before I worked with her. In the past, I've only done this with Judy. We take her lead rope off and make her run around in circles. We have to keep the sessions short because she is young and we don't want to hurt her joints. With Judy out of the barn, Ona blew me off entirely and didn't show me any respect. Nothing I did with the rope could get her to move forward, she was only interested in sniffing around trying to find a morsel of food somewhere. Throwing the rope behind her didn't get her attention. Slapping her on the butt didn't get her attention. I got frustrated and Ona got more stubborn. When she swung her butt in my direction I said "That's it!" and I put her lead rope on her, lead her around in a few circles, and brought her back to her stall. She wasn't paying attention and I did not feel safe working with her, so I put her back in her stall without even grooming her.

_2 steps forward yesterday_

I told Judy the story of what had happened, and immediately got a reassuring "Oh no no NO! We are putting a stop to that this very minute." She cleared out the back barn and we brought Ona back, and Judy introduced Ona and me to the lunge whip. Judy had never had to use it with Ona - all Judy has to do is slap a rope on her legs and step toward Ona. Ona was full of ---- and vinegar in the beginning, tossing her head and looking sassy. I got a lesson on "cracking the whip" and then Judy stepped out of the back barn and let me work with Ona. Ona listened! By the end of the session, which was less than 10 minutes I think, she was trotting the direction I told her to trot, turning when I told her to turn, and literally slid to a stop twice when I said "whoa." She got lots of pets and praise. I brought her back and tied her outside her stall for grooming. Not a peep from her - groomed every inch of her body and picked each foot up. Didn't even have to pick the feet up for her - she picked them up for me and held still until I told her she could put them down. I'd forgotten my hoof pick so I didn't clean them, but she lifted them for me anyway.

Today is Saturday and I'm off all day. I'm going to work with her twice - around noon and then again maybe around 6 or 7.


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## CheerfulMom4 (May 21, 2008)

I know what you mean about working with Judy then by yourself and it's all different. I've had horses for years and it still happens to me. Reminds me of something I've heard Clinton Anderson say that I think is SO true when it comes to horses. "Frustration begins where knowledge ends"


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I just went over and we turned her out to play in the back barn with her little friends and cleaned stalls. She's kind of a bully with them. She hasn't been turned out with any adult horses besides her dam yet. I'm getting a well-trained old trail horse in the Spring and they'll be sharing a paddock. That will teach her some manners.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Here comes an Ona brag!

Yesterday, we had a big ice storm. When I got to the barn, Judy had already finished her chores and gone in for the evening. Ona had just got her hay and had her rear turned toward the door and wasn't the least bit interested in me. I don't think she even registered my existence when I called her name. I went in the stall with her and gave it a quick clean and, against my better judgment, decided to try brushing her in the stall. She still didn't register my existence and she seemed a little spooked by the wind (or maybe it was me that was spooked) so I left the stall quickly. I didn't like the way she was ignoring me, so I decided to play a little game with her.

I got some hay and a riding crop and went back to the closed stall, stood on the other side, and whispered her name. When she didn't acknowledge me I poked her rear very gently with the crop. She nearly jumped right out of her skin, then spun around and stared at me like "what the HECK, lady?!?!" I just smiled and said "HI! Want some hay? " and hand fed her a little bit and then scratched her nose a while. She got tired of me pretty quickly and turned around and went back to eating her hay. I did the same thing again - whispered her name and just brushed the hairs on her hiney with the crop. She nearly hit the ceiling, spun around quickly and stared at me like I was absolutely insane. I smiled and fed her some hay and pet her. She turned around and started eating hay again but this time she kept her head turned so she could see me out of the corner of one eye. So I just went and talked to some other horses. When she forgot about me - I did it again! This time she got so scared she kicked the wall before she spun around and gave me the look. I fed her, pet her, walked away. I kept the game up for an hour. I'd walk really close to her stall and just keep going - pacing back and forth in front of it and visiting the other horses and completely ignoring her until she relaxed and then I'd whisper "Ona!" By the end of the hour all it took was a whisper for her to whirl around and give me two eyes and two ears, and get hay and scratches in return.

So today when I got there she was turned out by herself in the back barn, eating hay. Judy suggested I just go scratch her neck and walk away. I gave her a quick scratch and walked away and she turned her head and looked at me. Judy said "do it again" and I scratched her neck and walked away and she followed me. I turned and gave her scratches and walked some more. We walked round and round the barn this way, Ona with her nose about 1cm from my shoulder following me everywhere, not touching me. Judy said "turn around and walk toward her, see if she backs up." I did, and she did. I had her follow me some more and then turned around and had her back up again and then turn right and turn left. Round and round we went this way - no halter, no pressure. Just the slightest touch from me on her neck and she turned. Then she followed me back to her stall and I put her halter on and tied her and brushed her. When she started getting just a little restless, Judy said "end it on a good note" and I put her away with some hay. After I shut the door, while she was eating her hay, I whispered "Ona!" and her two eyes popped up to check me out!

I love this horse!!!


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I think you are seeing her test you. She knows that in horse behavior that if you don't like someone, you threaten to kick them and they leave you alone. You reinforced that behavior, by shortening the lesson and taking her back to her comfort pen. If her swinging her but towards you had resulted in a smack on the but, she might have stopped. But, you are unsure if that might have put you in greater danger. 
So hard when you are in love to require obedience and be willing to punish as well as praise. Establishing who is boss is critical to your success. 
I don&#8217;t get the point of interrupting feeding time with a poke, so the horse won&#8217;t ignore you? Food is a great motivator. I wouldn&#8217;t expect much from a green horse while busy eating. 
When training is going bad, go back to something he can do. Don&#8217;t end a training on a mistake or a refusal.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

haypoint said:


> I think you are seeing her test you. She knows that in horse behavior that if you don't like someone, you threaten to kick them and they leave you alone. You reinforced that behavior, by shortening the lesson and taking her back to her comfort pen. If her swinging her but towards you had resulted in a smack on the but, she might have stopped. But, you are unsure if that might have put you in greater danger.
> So hard when you are in love to require obedience and be willing to punish as well as praise. Establishing who is boss is critical to your success.
> I donât get the point of interrupting feeding time with a poke, so the horse wonât ignore you? Food is a great motivator. I wouldnât expect much from a green horse while busy eating.
> When training is going bad, go back to something he can do. Donât end a training on a mistake or a refusal.


Oh - she was testing me alright. But that was 4 days ago and she's done a complete 180 in the past 2 days so we must be doing something right. 

I don't think she should ever ignore me, feeding time or not. If I say her name she should give me 2 eyes and 2 ears.


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

So precious, a cremello with two blue eyes. Glad to hear it's going so well.

Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## lathermaker (May 7, 2010)

You walk up on the horse and poke her without knowing for sure whether or not she heard you???? That is a really good way for you to get kicked! The fact that she jumped when you poked her tells you she didn't hear you talk to her. Knock of the whispering BS and talk to her in a normal voice. Once the horse is trained then you can try the cute tricks. Don't work with this horse unless you have her totally under control. That means you have a halter and lead rope on her. 

What would you have done if she had actually kicked at you? Better have a recourse in mind because it will happen.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Lathermaker - she heard me. She was ignoring me. She jumped because she didn't expect me to poke her. I come on here and ask a question the very few times she acts up - which is rarely - and you assume she's out of control and not worked with. She is a young horse who pushes limits like every young horse pushes limits - and she does so less and less every day. She has not so much as thought about being anything but obedient for the last 4 days. She is 100% halter trained, and she also follows me everywhere I go without a halter on. She backs up when I ask her to back up, she turns when I ask her to turn, she puts her nose on the ground when I ask her to put her nose on the ground. AND - she turns and faces me whenever I say her name. So no - I will not knock off playing games with her. I'm having fun and she's having fun. And if she had actually kicked at me - there was a door between us. She would have kicked and I wouldn't have moved an inch. But she didn't.


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## lathermaker (May 7, 2010)

never mind. not worth it. Good luck to you. I'm done commenting.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

fffarmergirl - I don't want to be mean, but I'm thinking you need a reality check. You don't even know what it means for a horse to be halter broke, but you want to say you know more than the expert horsemen and women here that want to help you. Maybe its a lack of communication, but its coming across more and more that you have your own ideas and aren't so interested in anyone else's ideas. 

I sure hope that it goes well for you and your filly and that you take direction from your trainer. It is very possible to get badly hurt by even a trained and well mannered horse and it is very easy to make a young horse into a bad mannered and poorly trained horse.

From the sounds of it (I've only what you put here as a guide), you might be ignorant enough to not even know what to ask or what you are missing in your horse education that you really need. The advice you have been given has been from an honest concern for your well being and your filly's future as well.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

There is a lot of assumption in any back and forth discussion like this. I see two human nature things here. Humans often listen to other people, not to learn, but to get another chance to strengthen their own unchanging opinion. Also, we think that when we see problems in someone else, that we have made, that by warning them, they will benefit by our wisdom without experiencing the failures.
When you poke a horse, unexpectedly, you teach the horse a lesson. The horse will become better prepared to protect or defend himself next time. Once turned out with larger horses, there will likely be kicking and biting as the pecking order is sorted out. Your baby will likely be taught lessons about biting and kicking. If the colt doesnât see you as master, he may try to bully you. Every time he threatens to kick and you retreat, both of you have learned a lesson. Every time he acts up in training and gets put back in the stall, both of you have learned a lesson. Good intentions, with little experience will ruin a horse.
I had friends that moved to a farm, sort of a âback to the landâ thing. They wanted a milk cow, but were afraid of such a big animal. So they bought a baby goat. The goat loved to follow them around. She was a free range goat. Jack and Marnie were 10 and 12. They taught the goat a fun game. They would hold her head and push. The goat would push back. As little as she was, she could push hard. But Jack and Marnie could push back harder. It was wonderful. Then the goat grew up. Sheâd ram you with her horns every chance she could. Chased Jack and Marnie every time they went outside. It was out of control. They had to shoot the goat, because it was a bad goat. They lacked the insight to see how something simple could manifest itself into something horrible. 
I do not understand how it is important that when you speak the horseâs name, that the horse stops what it is doing and faces you. Seems you are wanting the horseâs attention, but the horse is learning to be on the lookout for a jab when sheâs around. 
Sheâs a baby. She only knows what Mom has taught her. You can teach her new things. But I canât stress enough that without an understanding of keeping control, Iâm afraid youâll teach her ways to end the lessons and get to return to the other horses. 
She needs to respect your space, not just shove past you. She needs to hold still as you remove and replace the halter. Soon, youâll be needing to put on and take off a bridal. 
It will be a while before you are riding her. Lunge line in a round pen is good exercise and training for her. When working with her, talk to her. Not lovie dovie stuff, but short clear commands. She needs to relate those words with their meanings and expectations. No yelling.
Every time you read a post, donât see it as someone scolding you for being so dumb. Look at it as someone trying to help and having little to go on.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I may not have understand what other people meant when they said "halter broke," but Ona _was_ halter broke. She was already leading fine, she'd had a halter put on her the day after she was born and was being led every day since she was a little baby. I had been leading her since I met her when she was 6 months old. Then, one day , when she was 9 months old, she acted up and I came on here for advice.

I would love the advice from expert horse people if they could give it to me without continuously making negative assumptions. It seems to me that two people on this thread have been excessively negative and constantly reading things the wrong way.

I'm spending 1-2 hours a night, almost every night, with Ona. I've been interacting with her almost daily since she was 6 months old. I have eyes and ears and powers of observation. When I see that she is testing me, I can't explain to you every way that it's clear to me that she's being rude so I say she "got sassy" and people assume she's behaving _very _badly.

Yes there has been a major miscommunication. Somehow I miscommunicated that my horse was unhandled and that I was an idiot. When I say she "threatened to kick" I meant her right back foot came off the ground a little every time I touched a certain part on her belly. She has been rubbed over every inch of her body since she was little, she just sometimes decides a new spot is ticklish. I didn't mean she was a raging maniac. 

I would think that the amount of time I have spent with her, despite my being a beginner with horses, would say something. Perhaps, by now, I just _might_ have figured out how loud my voice must be for her to hear me. Maybe I notice when her attitude is changing and I've picked up on some of her body language? 

I don't want her making the decision to start completely blocking me out while she's eating. I want her to register that I'm there and acknowledge me, and I know she can do that because she always has done that. I know how loud my voice has to be for her to hear me. When I say "Ona" she can at least turn her head and look at me so that I know that she knows I'm there - and I should not have to speak louder than necessary for her to do that. I want her to respond to a light touch and a soft voice. I don't want her butt facing the stall door when I open it - that's just me.

Whether or not people think the poking game I played with her several days ago was a good idea or not, it worked. She registers my existence while she's eating again, and that's what I was looking for. That people would think I would put myself in a position to be kicked while participating in an activity that clearly might lead her to kick is an insult to me. And are these people going to tell me they've never participated in a training activity with a young horse that made that a young horse nervous or jumpy? Seriously? I've watched people other people train foals, I know that some of the training leads to fear and people just repeat the activity until the foal no longer responds with fear. So how is me training Ona that she has to keep one eye on me any worse than training a foal not to kick when you brush between their hind legs?

It's my fault for emphasizing the fact that my first horse was a young horse. That's why people make negative assumptions.


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## CheerfulMom4 (May 21, 2008)

We feed timothy hay, water and minerals. They also have a plain white salt lick. Sometimes we feed Pennfield All Seasons feed if they are working pretty hard but unfortunelty with our horses that's not often enough. lol


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

When you wrote," Ona still has a *bond with her dam*, and their stalls are side by side. I lead her around inside the barn every night. She's *always* fine heading away from her dam but when we turn back around and she can see her, she gets really happy to see her dam and *wants to walk back too fast*. 

I've been turning her in circles whenever she gets going too quick, to slow her down. She just recently started doing this thing, though - the moment she feels the pressure on the lead when I'm getting ready to turn her, she turns herself. She *runs a very fast circle* around me and then starts heading forward again. She gets going so fast that *I'm afraid she's going to hurt me*. *Twice*, I got scared and *let go of the lead* and she ran back to her dam. That is really setting a bad precedent and I'm afraid I'm going to teach her that she can escape from me."

From this I read that the horse is walking you, racing ahead, at some point you spin her around, but she's getting the upper hand, overpowering you and running back to the stall. Based on just that I fear for your safety because I see the lessons as the horse learning to overpower you and you getting more afraid. You should be concerned about the precident you have established. 

I don't understand the differences between rude and sassy. Perhaps "Your kids are rude, but my child is just sassy."? I don't care. I was keying on the part about testing you. That is a red flag to most horse owners. Just as a human teenager will "test", such nonsense needs to be stopped while the horse is small enough to be corrected without developing bad habits. When a horse discovers that they can pull away from you, they will. Each time it happens, you strengthen their resolve to misbehave. Better to create situations where the horse cannot run away than to allow it to discover how easy it is to do as it wants. 

It will be a big adjustment for your horse when it gets put in with larger horses. You might not want to watch.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I can see where you got your impressions, haypoint, but they are _misimpressions_. I just wish you'd get rid of them now and either give me good advice (which I know you have) or label me an idiot and ignore me.

I'm going to clarify the parts you highlighted, then I'm going to stiop defending myself.

bond with her dam - yes, she was not finished weaning yet. Obviously different breeders have different situations and different opinions about weaning. Ona was halter trained before she was weaned. Previously, when she wanted to walk back too fast, I would just turn and she would get back behind me. It was easy. The two days in a row that she got away from me, I became concerned that something was wrong. I came on here worried and wondering what was going on - what I needed to do differently. Maybe if I had presented my situation more clearly and you had realized that she'd been halter broke for quite a while and had never gotten away from me before, and just turning her in a circle when she went too fast always took care of things before, a lightbulb would have turned on above your head. You would have thought "why is a horse who has never done this before doing this now?" and you would have asked me "has anything changed recently? Anything at all?" I may have answered "Well, she outgrew her halter and we changed her to a different one a couple of days ago. And we finally put her and her dam in separate stalls." Then you may have said "check and see if the halter is fitting properly. Horses in pain occasionally misbehave. And she's going through a pretty rough time right now, since she's recently been weaned, so just make sure you correct things in your lesson tomorrow and get her back on track."

You say testing is a red flag - but my impression is that all horses test and it is our job to pass that test and correct things quickly, before the bad habits develop. THat's why, every time she does something I don't want her to do, I talk to somebody about it and find out how to fix it. Everything has been fixed before it developed into a habit. 

When you say it will be a big adjustment for Ona when she goes in with larger horses, what do you mean? I'm getting an experienced trail horse in the spring and they're going to be in a paddock together. She's never been alone in a pasture with other adults without her dam present to defend her. She does touch noses with them across the fence but that's it.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Haypoint, I just realized that I was answering Granny at the same time that you were posting this quoted post. Thank you for taking the time and effort to post it. It is well-though-out and informative and I appreciate it.

I would write more but I have to get back to work.



haypoint said:


> There is a lot of assumption in any back and forth discussion like this. I see two human nature things here. Humans often listen to other people, not to learn, but to get another chance to strengthen their own unchanging opinion. Also, we think that when we see problems in someone else, that we have made, that by warning them, they will benefit by our wisdom without experiencing the failures.
> When you poke a horse, unexpectedly, you teach the horse a lesson. The horse will become better prepared to protect or defend himself next time. Once turned out with larger horses, there will likely be kicking and biting as the pecking order is sorted out. Your baby will likely be taught lessons about biting and kicking. If the colt doesnât see you as master, he may try to bully you. Every time he threatens to kick and you retreat, both of you have learned a lesson. Every time he acts up in training and gets put back in the stall, both of you have learned a lesson. Good intentions, with little experience will ruin a horse.
> I had friends that moved to a farm, sort of a âback to the landâ thing. They wanted a milk cow, but were afraid of such a big animal. So they bought a baby goat. The goat loved to follow them around. She was a free range goat. Jack and Marnie were 10 and 12. They taught the goat a fun game. They would hold her head and push. The goat would push back. As little as she was, she could push hard. But Jack and Marnie could push back harder. It was wonderful. Then the goat grew up. Sheâd ram you with her horns every chance she could. Chased Jack and Marnie every time they went outside. It was out of control. They had to shoot the goat, because it was a bad goat. They lacked the insight to see how something simple could manifest itself into something horrible.
> I do not understand how it is important that when you speak the horseâs name, that the horse stops what it is doing and faces you. Seems you are wanting the horseâs attention, but the horse is learning to be on the lookout for a jab when sheâs around.
> ...


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## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

haypoint said:


> It will be a big adjustment for your horse when it gets put in with larger horses. You might not want to watch.


On the contrary, I think this would be a great thing for you to watch (although it may not be an easy thing to watch). It will show you how effective a confident and well timed correction can be at putting an overzealous youngster in her place 

When the time comes for her to be turned out with other horses, I would suggest spending as much time as you can just watching her interact with other horses out in the pasture. It will teach you a lot about the way she thinks and socializes.


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

ffarmergirl, have you considered that the people you think have insulted you might be the people trying to help you? That said, have you purchased any books or dvd's that have been suggested throughout this thread? Today I found both volumes of Marty Martens books "Problem Solving vol:1&2". They are only 18 bucks each and the first one alone would help you I believe .http://www.martymarten.com/problem_solving.php

Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Thanks, jack. I got a subscription to giddyupflix and have added several to my quie. So far i haven't received any of the clinton anderson ones. I did get four different ones on colt starting. They all turned out to be older horses, ready to be started under saddle. Of the four, I did like the Richard Winters one. . I will add your suggestion.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I do get over defensive at times, i know.


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

Here's a quote from vol2. "In simple terms, a halter-broke horse immediatly responds to a handler through the halter rope without any resistance. The handler can place the horse's foot anywhere, whether he is as close as 1 foot or as far as 10 feet or more away from the horse"

That quote is what most professional horsemen use as a description of halter broke and what I personally agree with and strive for. Your journey with Ona needs to start with one foot at a time IMO without a lot of running around in high energy. There are some good people that have offered you help, if your going to have success with your horse I guarantee you that you must learn to listen to Ona very closely or she may quit listening to you.

Hope this might help you.

Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Thanks, Jack. At what age is a horse ready to respond that well? There are times when Ona seems to be in the right frame of mind to be able to pay that much attention, but not for long and not from 10 feet away. It really does not help that i work full time and the horses get fed right around the time i get home. She can't concentrate very well when she is hungry and the other horses are eating, so i waste a lot of time waiting for her to eat. It will be better when the days are longer.. I want to groom her every night, as well as get some training in.


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

She's ready to understand one foot right now. We have a standing line in my barn whenever something unwanted happens, "you were late" is heard in exclamation. With your filly I would start controlling each step she takes from the moment she was haltered. (actually before) But the understanding has to come from you, and your timing (release) is critical at this stage. Maybe googling "pressure and release" would lead you to examples on you tube. Stay close to her for now but don't hang on the lead line, leave a bit of slack. The thing you did standing at the stall served no purpose to the horse. I would rather see you take that opportunity to scratch her above the tail while she ate her hay. That might give her reason to think maybe she can trust you. Do be careful of being kicked, if your in the stall stand next to her hip. The two eye thing will come when you begin to control her feet. The same with controlling the feet from ten feet away. Start close and "one day" it might come. The big thing to understand, IMO, is that it's us humans that make the change and that can only be realized by gaining knowledge in the ways that are best for the horse.

Good luck, you can do it but it's not easy and it's not going to happen fast.


Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Thanks.

I thing my primary problem, other than me being pretty new to horses, is just the logistics of me frequently getting there immediately after she gets her hay and Judy goes inside. It's getting frustrating. We don't have good cell phone reception out here and Judy is always outside, so it's difficult for me to call before I go over. I have to come home from work, put layers of warm barn clothes on, and drive over. It's not easy to just go home and go back later. My schedule varies and Judy's schedule varies. I do not feel that I have any right to interfere with Judy's schedule more than I already am.

It would seem like the simple solution to this problem would be for me to feed her every night, after I'm done with her, but then she's hungry and not paying good attention. 

When Ona isn't eating, she pays attention to me and walks up and puts her face in her halter. Obviously, that's not going to happen when she's eating. I don't want to get her in the habit of having to be forced into her halter - and that's what would happen if I tried to halter her during dinner time.

There are 3 things I need to do when I get there - clean her stall, groom her, and train with her. I would think that the solution would be for me to clean her stall with her eating in it, and maybe even groom her with her eating in it, but #1 I've been taught that it's not a good idea to work with a horse in the stall and #2 unless I can get her to acknowledge my existence and respect me while she's eating, she's going to walk all over me .

I have to post this in two parts before it times out.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

So anyway - that's why I want her to look at me if I say her name while she's eating. I can't think of another way to get things done. I'm very lucky if I have one hour of daylight left after I come home. I do like to see her in the daylight. I suppose I could just give up on that idea and start going around 7:00 at night or something.

We tried having Judy just feed the other horses and me feed Ona after I was done with her, but that didn't work for a few reasons. I don't know how other people who work full-time and board their horses do it. I'm boarding Ona right next door and I can't seem to make it work. Of course, the only boarder I run into at Judy's doesn't work full-time so she doesn't have this problem. The ones who do work, don't really visit their horses. I don't want to be one of those people.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Fffarmergirl, back when I was still raising foals their dinner time was a good time for (hmmm...don't know what to call it...maybe) uncontrolled lessons. No halter or anything on them, they had to get used to me walking around them while they were eating, used to me cleaning their stall which would include me touching them with the PLASTIC pooper scooper all over their bodies and legs. Picking up their feet, grooming them, massaging with a plastic feed bag, and just about anything I could think of to desensitize them. Paying more attention to their food than they did to me was not a worry as long as they knew I was there and didn't try to kick my lights out. 

Other than that the only thing I cared that one her age knew how to do was to lead and to stand for the farrier/vet. Maybe a few trailer loading lessons.

From what I've read on here my biggest concern is that she doesn't have enough socializing and play time with other horses. I made that mistake with my first foal, wanting to protect him from the adult horses, and 17 years later he's still the biggest brat on this farm. Every foal I've had since then got turned out as soon as they had figured out how to work their legs (usually 2 or 3 days old) and when it came time to wean the mare was removed and the foal stayed with the herd. It's really quite amazing how much training a youngster will get from the older horses. I'm also not much of a fan of forced exercise for one so young.

You've mentioned a couple of times that you can't keep her attention for long and that's to be expected. Think of a 1 or 2 year old kid and how long they will play with a toy before they want to move on to the next thing. Same with a foal. Short attention spans and they learn better if you keep the lessons short and sweet. I wouldn't even worry about working with her every day. Maybe do the "uncontrolled lessons" during the week and save the in halter lessons for the weekends when you aren't in a hurry and it isn't her feeding time. Longer days will be here before we know it.

I'm really routing for you to have much success with your first horse. There's no better feeling than to have that good partnership and mutual trust with your horse.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

fffarmergirl said:


> *I don't want her making the decision to start completely blocking me out while she's eating. I want her to register that I'm there and acknowledge me, and I know she can do that because she always has done that.* I know how loud my voice has to be for her to hear me. When I say "Ona" she can at least turn her head and look at me so that I know that she knows I'm there - and I should not have to speak louder than necessary for her to do that. I want her to respond to a light touch and a soft voice. I don't want her butt facing the stall door when I open it - that's just me.


What is the purpose of wanting her to focus on you while she's eating? I understand not wanting a horse to turn their butt to you when you open their stall; that's a defensive position and often when they expect you are coming in to get them for work. But why interrupt eating - what is the goal you are trying to achieve (other than to make them wary of turning their back on you?)

Personally, I think my horses have every right to ignore me when they are eating, and in fact, I do my best not to bother them after I feed. If I have to interrupt them I try to make it quick and business-like (e.g. have to make a quick blanket change due to weather; I'd rather not do it while they are eating but sometimes it's fastest) I get in, get out, and don't ask for anything but for them to stand still; this is their meal-time, not their training time.



lathermaker said:


> Once the horse is trained then you can try the cute tricks. Don't work with this horse unless you have her totally under control. That means you have a halter and lead rope on her.
> 
> What would you have done if she had actually kicked at you? Better have a recourse in mind because it will happen.


I agree with this -- working means the horse knows you are "working", especially a young horse in training. They know what to expect because they are wearing a halter, bridle, whatever, and you are also prepared (gloves, helmet) and a plan for what you are trying to accomplish/achieve. A loose horse is nearly impossible to correct if you don't get the behavior you want.

My horses are trained but my kids also ride so we have to reinforce this with the kids as well. Every time they take a horse out, they are to have a plan - WHY are they asking for something, and what do they expect the horse to do (so they can reinforce or correct and try again). When the kids were practicing showmanship they would sometimes just wander around with the horses and say they were "practicing" but neither kid nor horse were actually learning anything.

In my case, having my horses being led around the arena isn't dangerous, but it's not "training" unless you have a goal and some plan for correction or reinforcing the goal you want. 

With a young horse, you certainly can have unexpected dangerous moments...even if you have a plan. I would definitely not be working with a loose horse unless your goal is free-lunging...but to be honest, unless you're really good it that I wouldn't do that either.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Teej - you're saying that I can work on doing those things while she's eating? That's what I would like to do. It would solve a lot of problems if I could do that. She just gets so into her food I want to make absolutely sure she keeps in mind that I'm there. I guess my purpose when I was poking her (which I now agree isn't a good thing to do) was to get her in the habit of always paying attention to where I am and what I'm gonig to do next.

She leads and stands for the farrier. Haven't tried trailer loading.

I'm concerned about the lack of socialization, too. Judy wasn't planning on keeping her there. She was up for sale and I was already in love with her and didn't want her to leave, so I bought her. Unfortunately, it was winter before I made up my mind. We didn't have time to put up the fence before the snow came. It's so slippery right now. If we turn her out with the big horses now, she'll be slipping on the ice and I'm afraid she'll get hurt. She does spend time in the back barn with the other babies but she has to be supervised because she's a big bully.

Maybe I will save the halter lessons for weekends. That would be a load off my mind.

Thanks for routing for me. I need it!



Off the grid said "Every time they take a horse out, they are to have a plan - WHY are they asking for something, and what do they expect the horse to do (so they can reinforce or correct and try again). When the kids were practicing showmanship they would sometimes just wander around with the horses and say they were "practicing" but neither kid nor horse were actually learning anything." That's what I feel like when I take her out - like I don't have a plan. Ona looks at me like "lady, what do you want from me?"


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

fffarmergirl said:


> Off the grid said "Every time they take a horse out, they are to have a plan - WHY are they asking for something, and what do they expect the horse to do (so they can reinforce or correct and try again). When the kids were practicing showmanship they would sometimes just wander around with the horses and say they were "practicing" but neither kid nor horse were actually learning anything." That's what I feel like when I take her out - like I don't have a plan. Ona looks at me like "lady, what do you want from me?"


I have never trained a baby, so I don't exactly know *what* you should be training and how often. If it were me, I'd probably get really nerdy about it and actually make a list of the behaviors you should work on, and then a description of how and how often to work on them. This is how I think about riding -- having a specific goal for each schooling session like "clean transitions" and a couple of ways to work on that goal (figure 8s and change gait across the middle, or long side trots and short side walks, etc.) and work on them for 10 minutes each, or something like that. I don't write them down but I probably should, because my riding would probably improve.

My kids, though, will sometimes get on my mare and if she doesn't give them a really *nice* something or other (say, forward trot), they will decide not to work on that anymore because it wasn't fun (and they will ask for a WP jog instead). So little by little they can actually un-do the training by reinforcing the bad behavior with a reward (rest or easier work). They do much better with the trainer in the ring (and now that they are older, they are better in general, of course).

Obviously all your interactions with your young horse will be "training opportunities" - e.g. if your filly tries to nip while you are grooming, you have to correct that behavior. But I would definitely talk to your trainer/mentor about specific behaviors and exercises so that you can have more of a planned "schooling session" a few times a week. If possible, with someone else on the ground with you - or even better, someone who will demonstrate and then you can repeat the exercise and build your confidence too.


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## Waiting2Retire (Jan 14, 2013)

fffarmergirl said:


> Off the grid said "Every time they take a horse out, they are to have a plan - WHY are they asking for something, and what do they expect the horse to do (so they can reinforce or correct and try again). When the kids were practicing showmanship they would sometimes just wander around with the horses and say they were "practicing" but neither kid nor horse were actually learning anything." That's what I feel like when I take her out - like I don't have a plan. Ona looks at me like "lady, what do you want from me?"


Why do you feel like you dont have a plan? From what you have posted on here you seem to work with, or do something with her every day, so you DO have a plan. Just keep it in the front of your mind, along with what to do when x y and z happen instead.

you expressed concern in another comment about being able to spend enough time with her during the work week. At the barn I work at we have many boarders who come out every night after work, some just to groom and give an extra feeding, others try to get off early enough to do a short trail ride or lunge, or what have you. We also have boarders that I never see. I cant foresee you becoming one of the latter with the enthusiasm you currently have, so do not worry about that.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I guess I just don't know what I'm trying to accomplish - what I'm working toward. It's going to be at least 1-2 years before I can even start riding her. We need a goal to work toward. She is very pretty -large cremello, very good conformation, from what everybody says. I wouldn't know about conformation. I can recognize cow hocks and that's about it. I brush her every day so she's going to just gleam when she sheds. We're thinking about showing her at some small local shows. Judy says she's perfect for halter shows. I'm not going to get into lunging her or doing anything unhealthy. I want her to be rideable for a good long time. I would really love to get into endurance riding soon - using different horses, until she's old enough, of course. I'm thinking about ponying her behind on trail rides.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

fffarmergirl said:


> Teej - you're saying that I can work on doing those things while she's eating? That's what I would like to do. It would solve a lot of problems if I could do that. She just gets so into her food I want to make absolutely sure she keeps in mind that I'm there. I guess my purpose when I was poking her (which I now agree isn't a good thing to do) was to get her in the habit of always paying attention to where I am and what I'm gonig to do next.
> 
> She leads and stands for the farrier. Haven't tried trailer loading.
> 
> ...


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## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

Buy a book about training youngsters. Clinton Anderson and Josh Lyons have books that are specifically oriented toward working with foals and yearlings, that contain a lot of excercises and lessons that will give you a step by step plan and tell you what to do with her. I think that would be helpful for you at this point. I had a copy of Josh Lyons' book that I'd give you, but I already gave it to a friend last year who was training a baby. 

I may have misunderstood, but just want to clarify... how much turnout time is she getting? From some of your previous posts it sounds like she is spending a lot of time in the barn? At her age it is very important that she have plenty of time outside, preferably with other horses so she can learn to socialize. Babies should ideally have all day turnout or 24 hour turnout when the weather permits. Keeping them inside for most of the day when they are babies can cause permenant damage to their joints as the growth plates will not be able to develop the way that they should. This happened to my QH filly when I had to board her at a barn where she was only able to have 1-2 hours of turnout per day. Thankfully it never made her lame but she still has issues with her legs stocking up (swelling) when she's left in a stall for too long. That problem could have been prevented had she been able to have more turnout time when she was a baby.

EDIT TO ADD: I don't want to fuel the fire too much in here, but I do think it's worth it to add that... I know in this day and age people tend to err on the side of safety and caution when it comes to trying new things, most recommend (as would I) taking lessons for a couple years before buying your first horse, etc. However, there _are_ plenty of folks out there who just jumped right in and tried it, and succeeded. I know a couple of wonderful horse people who are largely self-taught, or at least they were for the first several years. They haven't killed themselves yet and are pretty darned good with the horses. You need to approach this thing with confidence and optimism, and when you don't have experience behind you, err on the side of safety and common sense  I'm probably going to be attacked for that comment... but thought it was worth mentioning.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

With the amount of time you are spending, it seems that there are things she can learn. I believe that lunging, with a lunge line would be healthy exersize and training to respond to voice commands. 
Is there any way a quiet older horse could be with your horse in the indoor arena to learn how to get along?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

It's not a good idea to longe babies either on a line or small round pen until they are at least two years old. It places torque on young developing legs and can cause damage.


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

She's just a baby - no need to spend hours every day "training" on her, just make sure she has the basics like Teej said. Brushing on her while she's eating is fine - poking her in the butt while she's eating and unaware of your presence is not. All you did with that is teach her not to trust you when you're behind her. Spending a few minutes each evening walking her somewhere, tying her (has she been taught to stand while tied yet?), brushing her while tied, picking her feet, and then going back to the stall is plenty enough interaction for a foal. 

If y'all are planning on showing her in halter, have your trainer show you how to teach her to place her feet square - something you can practice for a few minutes every night and be done with, and a skill that will come very handy in the future.. Turning a proper circle is another maneuver you can work on for a short (SHORT!) period of time with her as well.

But for everything you do, keep it short and simple. She has a short attention span, and if you "overtrain" on her, you stand the chance of make her resentful and snotty. Just keep in mind that she's a baby, and doesn't need hours of being worked with to turn in a productive citizen.

And I agree about turn-out, get her out of that stall and into some free space as soon and as often as possible. that will do as much for her as anything.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Back when I was training outside horses, my specialty was remedial training and the worst messes to unravel were always the ones that were overtrained/pushed too hard when they were young or those that were trained to be buddies rather than horses. 

Horses need to be properly socialized as horse in order to make safe and sane mounts.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Just a little update - I'll try to keep it short because I have a tendency to talk too much.

I took some of the advice on here and things are really going well. Judy brought home a weanling almost Ona's size a couple of weeks ago. We just started turning them out together a few days ago. The other horse has put Ona in her place! She's a lot more mellow now. She just seems happier, now that she has somebody her size to play with who doesn't tolerate bullying. She seems to have learned her lesson very quickly. She's getting a lot more exercise now. Before, even when she was turned out, she didn't move around much because she didn't have anybody to play with unless we turned the other horses her age out with her. They are so much smaller and she was such a bully that we couldn't do it much or for long.

I also took the advice to stop trying so hard to "train" her. Why not just go slow and smell the roses? So I mostly just turn her out, walk her around a little on her way back to her stall, groom her, pick up her feet. She hasn't given me a hint of trouble in days! 

I was previously under the impression that horse training involved a lot more time and effort than it really does. I mean - it involves daily time and effort, of course - but not the intensity I thought was necessary. It takes a lot of time to train a person about horses but the horses themselves learn a lot faster than I thought they would.

The horse Judy brought home a couple of weeks ago is 6 months old. She was born in the field and had never been touched. She seemed really wild for about 3 days and she's already easy to get a halter on and she leads pretty well. Sweetest little thing, too! I'll bet in another week or two she will be as good as Ona. Of course . . . she doesn't have a beginner coming in and making mistakes that have to be undone, so that might have something to do with why she's progressing so much faster than Ona did.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Looks like things are going well. You and Ona both sound like you're much more relaxed now and that's a good thing. I'm happy for you!


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

ffarmergirl, This might be something to watch and think about.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl6S7WyrLBk[/ame]


Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Thanks, Jack! That makes a lot of sense. I do remember having teachers like that and, initially, wanting to please them but then just giving up because I couldn't understand them.

I did not realize how smart and sensitive horses are, and how much they really want to just know what you want from them and do it - so that you will release them from pressure. I had it in my head that they were thick-skulled and thick-skinned and I've recently realized that is really not the case at all. Maybe some of them are, I don't know. Just like there are some children who don't need a firm hand at all - just a raise of the eyebrow in disapproval or a smile of approval is all they need - there are horses who are very sensitive, as well. Ona is one of those horses and I don't want to ruin her responsiveness.

Unless I know exactly what it is that I want from Ona - how is she supposed to know what I want? I can't go out and play "train" with her. From now on I'm going to have a limited # of things to work with her on so that we can show her, and work on it for a short time quietly and calmly, release the pressure, and let her be a horse.

I realized yesterday that *I* need this 1-2 hrs per night in the barn. Ona does not need it. I'm using it as therapy, to keep me from worrying about other things. I can have my time in the barn without over-interacting with Ona. I can brush the other horses, clean stalls etc.

I didn't really need a horse - I needed a job as a groom in a stable!


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## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

Wow, you have learned so much just since starting this thread! 

Keep up the good work!


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

I think you've found the trailhead ffarmergirl. Horses certainly aren't thick skinned or thick headed. My own experience has shown me that they are much smarter and more sensitive than myself. Take your time and remember the journey begins one foot at a time and brings it's own rewards.

Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

Thanks for the update, and I agree, it sounds like things are going well. I'm glad you didn't take offense (completely) and just leave, but have stayed and are trying. 

And yes, barn therapy is a well-known mental health solution!


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

View attachment 5231


View attachment 5232


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Things are going well. I can't wait until Spring so I can take her for walks. When I get the older horse, I hope it won't be too hard to pony her.


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