# Weaving .... Im stuck !



## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

Ok, Im stuck and havent even put a weft on ! I cant figure out which pattern to use ...how the colors go on the weft etc .. 

I have 2 cones/colors peaches & cream yarn ..... dont want a boring weave , want something to understand my 4 shaft better .... maybe a little rug for at the kitchen sink ....... I have a # 8 dent reed , should work fine .... What is an easy , but nice 2 color pattern that I could understand how to warp for a 4 shaft ??

Still learning how to read drafts .... would this work for my yarn ? Not sure how to tell if a pattern will turn out using the yarn ya got ! 

WHAT are the grey lines in the chart ?? ( after the first 2 rows of 1 and 2 weave )


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## Jacki (May 13, 2002)

Looks like the gray line is a marker line to help you keep track of where you are in the pattern.

I don't remember if your loom has treadles, and if it doesn't, you will have to remember to lift multiple shafts at a time on the picks that show more than one shafts tied to one treadle. That could be a bit confusing but not impossible.

Good luck, and happy weaving!

Jacki


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## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

Miz Mary, I'm curious. Is this your new 4h table loom? Have you warped it and/or woven anything on it before? Have you ever woven on a multiple harness loom?


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

No treadles ! FB, this IS my new 4-shaft table loom ! Nope, havent warped on yet , OR on a multiple harness loom ! I have been watching all the you tube videos , and reading my How To Weave book .... and have the other book coming ..... The Handweaver's Pattern Directory for 4h looms ! 

Thanks Jacki, the grey line had no explanation !


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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

Miz Mary, I think you're looking at a draft that show four separate possible patterns you can weave given the warping and tie-ups.

Each section between the grey bands is a different pattern.

The top, two line, pattern is called a Tabby, the most basic pattern in weaving and will yield a plain cloth.

The other three patterns are variations on a theme, choose the one that suites your fancy.



ETA: Did you by any chance get that draft from an article that talked about "Overshot"? Just curious.


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

Just at a glance, it looks like your warp are two different colors. An easy warp. If you're using knitting yarn, an 8 should work. Wrap it around a ruler to make sure tho. Don't pack it tight, just next to the previous thread. If you're getting about 8, it should work. As long as they're both similar, it should be pretty balanced. 

Decide how wide your piece will be (your choice) and multiply that width in inches by your 'wraps per inch'. That will give you the number of threads in your warp. Don't shy away from floating selvedges, because, they will probably come in handy. You can attach them independently of the warp or wind them along with your warp. Just keep them taught. 

When you put your warp on the loom keep constant tension (more than you'd use for weaving) Tension is your friend! Try to get it spread out over the warp beam to about the width of the project. I use a raddle. Some don't. I warp back to front. Some don't. 
It's all the same results whatever you choose. I personally liked the Ashford video. 

You say you're using the Handweavers pattern directory. There's a cute twill on p. 38 (middle draft-orange and tan) This would give you some twill experience as well yielding a neat but different result on both sides of the cloth. Just a suggestion. 

But for the pattern you've shown here; this is showing 3 DIFFERENT SAMPLES for the same threading. (this is not one draft, it's 3!) - Just different *treadling* for the same threading to produce 3 different variations. Choose one!
What worked for me was to write down the treadling for whichever pattern you choose. That's how I kept track of them. example: 
first block: 1-3, 2-4
This is 'tabby' or plain weave. Very nice to have on the edges and strong. You can also use 1-2, 3-4. Works just as well looks just a little different.

The Second sample treadling is: 1-4, 3-4, 2-3, 1-2-4, 2-3, 3-4, 1-4, 3-4, 2-3, 1-2, 2-3, 3-4. You repeat the above starting again with 1-4.... 

The middle is another sample. Different treadling. 

This is how I kept track of the drafts when I used the table loom. I wrote down the treadling like above on a document with a pic of the draft. If there a lot of them (15 or 20) order them in groups. But the first in this sample only has 12 so just list them in a row.
*
One word of caution:* *never* stop in the middle of a repeat! Always get to the end of a repeat before stopping. First hand experience here! :facepalm: You can always "un-weave" and fix, but it's a lot less frustrating to just go the end of a repeat. You can walk away and come back in a week (as long as there are no cats) and know to start at the beginning again. 

The pattern you've shown here is what's called a "gamp". It's a sample. You can do a lot of different things on one threading just put tabby between them if you want to use all of them. If not and you want only ONE of those 3, then pick one, write dodn the shaft combinations and go for it! 

Hope this helps. I know where you're at cuz I was there about 4 months ago. You'll get it! I even threw a 5 yd warp away once and started over! "It's only friggin' string"

Hope this helps. Glad to share. You can pm me if I can help any way at all.


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## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

Miz Mary, this is a variation of the Rosepath pattern. One of the very first pieces I ever wove on my small 4h floor loom was this pattern. 

I had only been weaving for about 3 weeks and had made a couple small projects in tabby (plain weave). I wanted to make my MIL a nice shawl to take to church and wanted to try something different than plain weave - because I thought it was boring. So, I picked out some really nice 100% alpaca yarn and this pattern and got to work.

I wish I'd stuck with plain weave for a while. While the shawl turned out nice it did not turn out like I expected - at all. 

*Most* beginning weavers beat the weft too hard - I was no exception. Some patterns and yarns require that, but not patterns like this in the alpaca I was using. I threaded the loom and it didn't really take a long time to weave. It looked pretty on the loom. However, once I took it off and wet finished it the pattern completely disappeared and it looked like dirt spots (I'd used a heathered gray and creme for the warp and a creme for the weft). I was really really disappointed.

I know you want to get started weaving pretty things, however, I'm going to suggest you spend some time learning to weave on your table loom. Learn how to tie up and thread and how gently, or not, to beat the weft to get the type fabric you want. I am not sure but I would expect that the yarn you want to use will turn into a pretty dense fabric. 

I have been without a floor loom for just over a year now (that's going to change this month) and so I've spent the last year weaving on a rh loom, and just weaving tabby. I've spent a lot of time learning to get my selvedges straight and how to NOT beat the weft into submission, but just beat it until it's happy. I am glad I took this time to do that because I feel like it has made me more confident in my weaving and now when I start something on the floor loom I will look at it much differently than a year ago.

If you are absolutely sure you want to weave this pattern with this yarn I would really suggest you do a small sample on your rh loom in plain weave and see how it looks once it's finished. Rosepath is a beautiful pattern and I'm not really sure you will see it's full potential right now.

Just my 2 cents worth this afternoon.


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## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

Miz Mary - guys, I am pretty sure this is not three different patterns. It's one draft and it's woven as it is. Here's the original page where that draft is found. It's called Birdseye and is a variation on the Rosepath pattern.

http://www.allfiberarts.com/2012/birdseye.htm

And here's another variation on that from this page http://www.styleforum.net/t/56404/unfunded-liabilities-a-k-a-the-cloth-thread/4695










And here's a pic from Pinterest showing how it kinda looks woven











But hey, I may be wrong. Won't be the first time that's happened


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

YES FB !!! Thats where I found it ! The allfiberarts.com ! WHat a fun site ! 

I usually tend to jump in this feet first .... I get what your saying to just keep it simple and learn the loom .... I have this Sugar & cream yarn on cones I dont care for much ... think it will be great for learning ( like fat size knitting needles when you just start learning ! ) 
So I was thinking... what can I make out of this yarn -- its cotton ... kinda fat yarn ..... hmmmmm ... a mat for the kitchen floor I could throw in the wash when needed !!! 
Any suggestions to an easy but not so boring pattern ?! 

Maybe Ill wait until my book gets here to do anything !


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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

Found the answer to why the tabby is shown at the top!

I stand by my assertion that it's three separate patterns.

The tabby shots at the top are to be inserted into the pattern to act as a binder weft. 

e.g. The first line of the tabby, pattern shot, the second line of the tabby, the next pattern, back to the first line of the tabby, third line of pattern etc.


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## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

Miz Mary, I know it's a 4 harness but how many treadles does your loom have? I ask because I went to weavolution and looked around a bit at the 4 harness patterns.

You can always warp alternating colors and weave something in a plaid, by using plain weave.

Otoh, the Fibonacci sequence is interesting and is used a lot in weaving patterns.

And here's a good resource for patterns for harness looms http://handweaving.net/Patterns.aspx


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

Featherbottoms, Your right. I stand corrected. It looks like it could be divided though. And it's strange to see divisions in a draft like this. Thanks for looking closer than I did. Old eyes.... 
Miz mary, there are sample drafts like this tho. I've seen 5 or six. But if this is one draft, it's BIG so I urge you to write down the combinations in order, group them and DOUBLE CHEK, then TRIPLE CHEK to make sure you've got them *all*. Then go for it! You'll Love the experience!

Best way to jump in is feet first! ;-)


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

If by treadles you mean foot treadles ... NONE, its a table loom ....








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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

Does this look easier ?!


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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

It will mean when you wind your warp you'll have to deal with switching between colors, or make two winding - one for each color - then warp your loom front-to-back.

Also, you'll need two shuttles - one for each color.


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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

How about this version of Rosepath. It's written for a loom like yours (and mine). In the lower right picture B and C are the same pattern, only difference is C has that binder weft I mentioned earlier.








From _The Ashford Book of Weaving for the Four Shaft Loom_


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

Miz Mary, treadles = levers. You're lifting the harnesses by pulling down the levers is what I meant. Didn't mean to confuse. Regarding a mat for the kitchen floor. If you're going to make a rug with yarn, they recommend using several wefts at once and using rug warp for warping. If you used only a single yarn weft against a single yarn warp, it would be more like a soft thin blanket. Pretty but not very sturdy. Maybe better suited for a table mat under a fruit bowl, or a table runner. Great starter project tho. 

kkbinco! Now you got me wonderin..... the binder weft. Is that a shot of tabby between numerous picks on the same shaft? I remember the M.P Davison book mentioning 'use tabby', but she doesn't actually show it in the drafts, just expects the weaver to understand where. I'm a greenhorn too. I get it now, just never tried it.


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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

Osiris said:


> kkbinco! Now you got me wonderin..... the binder weft. Is that a shot of tabby between numerous picks on the same shaft? I remember the M.P Davison book mentioning 'use tabby', but she doesn't actually show it in the drafts, just expects the weaver to understand where. I'm a greenhorn too. I get it now, just never tried it.


This is from the same Ashford book (hope I don't run afoul of copyright).


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## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

Miz Mary, I don't know about table looms, that's why I was asking. Most patterns for harness looms will tell you how many harnesses and how many treadles. For example, both of my 4h looms have 4 harnesses and 6 treadles. My 8n/4l loom currently has 8 harnesses and 10 treadles. Having more treadles allows more variation of patterning because the treadles are tied to the harnesses to lift them for making the shed. There are lots of patterns for 4h and 4t so you shouldn't have any problems finding things to try.

Some people will use a few tabby picks at the beginning and end of their weaving to hold the weft into place. Some people will take this and turn it under for a hem instead of using or making fringe. Some people use thicker waste yarn as a weft protector in place of the tabby. It's main purpose is to hold the weft yarn in place when you remove the piece from the loom. I alternate between waste yarn and handstitching the beginning and end instead of using tabby, but I do sometimes weave about 1" of tabby at both ends. Just depends on the yarn I'm using and what kind of mood I'm in.


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

I get it. Yep, it looks like that's what they're showing. Tabby (alternating) in between multiple picks on the same harness. The Davison book doesn't show the tabby only says it. 

Miz Mary, I miss my little Dorset table loom. I found that having 4 levers is actually better than having 6 pedals. I was able to generate up to 10 or 12 DIFFERNT combinations for 'treadling'. If you got the Handweaving.net and search "min shafts (4) " and max Shafts (4), Max treadle (any), you'll find patterns with a lot more than just 4 combinations and are easier on the table loom than on a floor loom. It's kind of difficult to press several treadles at the same time, whereas, it's a lot easier with levers and the hand. Here are a couple.


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

Here you go Miz Mary! A 4 shaft sample draft! Now it'll take you years to decide! :hair Just kidding.
Actually, many weavers will do this as a personal sampler. I'm not so ambitious yet. But it's educational, provides great practice in both threading and treadling and it's inspiring. Relish the possibilities m'dear!


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

Holy Shysters ! Thats fancy ! 

So , If I wanted to warp for this SAMPLER ........ ???? Do you do a whole warp in white, then weft in blue ???? Or backwards ?!!? 

If I wanted to JUST do the diamonds in the first column, second square down ... would I thread the heddles ,as the pattern across the top left in teeny tiny boxes in black/white ?? ( first section only ) 

The tiny top right box tells me which shafts I will do together .... right ??

...and the section under that box tells me what order to raise said shafts ..... ???? 

...am I understanding this right ???


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

You got it! Warp (up and down) white and weft (left and right) blue. As far as color, it's your choice.You can make it whatever combinations you want. You can even change in the middle if you want as long as they'r not both the same. 

The threading is across the top. BUT, the there are only 3 different threadings here! (Blue lines indicate the end of one threading) The left group is like "A's and V's" the middle is like pyramids with a dot in the middle and the right is like "M's and W's" 
The variations lie in how you treadle (use the levers). The boxes on the right are the treadling pattern. And right, the upper right box is what shafts to raise and when. It's your guide. 
Bottom line, you've got 3 threadings, 6 treadlings which can produce any one of 18 patterns....or all of them if you want. 
SO your first four shots, (lever combinations) starting in the upper right side would be, 1-4, 3-4, 2-3, 1-2, then back up again, 2-3, 3-4, 1-4

You got it! If you want only one, you go to the blue and red lines and repeat.


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

So, if I wanted to make an exact replica of that sampler .... I should count the threadings and make sure I have enough heddles !! 

Where did you find this beautiful piece ?!?! 

Im so excited that Im GETTING it !! Usually it only makes sense AS Im doing it !!!! 
oh.... does this piece matter which way ya warp - front to back or back to front ? 

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU !!!!!


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

"....Where did you find this beautiful piece ?!?!...."

Google m'dead..... Google! Pinterest has a lot of ideas too. But you gotta sign up to get everything. 

Yes if you want to do the whole thing you'd duplicate the entire threading across the TOP. If you just want one piece, you stop at the lines and repeat. You probably want 2 floating selvedges too, just to be safe. 

MM, this is a big piece: A snap for experienced weavers. But it'll take some concentration and notes. I wasn't putting it here suggesting you DO it, but only to give you an idea of the possibilities for only 3 threadings. Personally, for a first project, I'd pick one (or two) and go for it. Just to get something on the loom and a feel for the loom itself. I'm a scardey cat! You may have to adjust things on the loom or even replace things. Make sure all screws are tight. Make sure the breast beam and warp beams are smooth - no nicks. Try the loom out without yarn on it, check your shafts so they all raise equally. Check everything on it before warping it. If it seems strong and sturdy, go for it. If anything feels rickety, try to fix it first or find out why. You don't want to have to do it in the middle of weaving. ;-)


RE: Front to back of back to front. That's a personal choice. Weavers swear by both. The goal is getting the yarn wound on the warp beam! How you do it is where the difference lies. You'll have to look up some vids on that. F2B requires you sley the reed, thread the heddles, THEN wind it on the back roller. B2F eliminates the first 2 steps and goes for the back beam first leaving the threading and sleying for later. Do some researching on both techniques B4 choosing one.
Webs has a good vids on warping. Ashford has one too. Elizabeth Wagner has some good vids as well. I prefer B2F but that's just how I started. Since this is your first warp, it's gonna be a learning experience so keep it simple. One step at a time, think ahead. And always under tension.


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

Floating Selvage ?!

I will probably pick just one to try...THIS time


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

Floating selvedges: a useful tool in weaving. It keeps the edges of the cloth consistent. With certain drafts, the end thread isn't always caught. A floating selvedge is designed to be wound on the warp beam along with your warp, but not threaded in a heddle. It is only sleyed thru the reed. SO it sits above the warp and the middle of the shed. You pass over it on one side and under it on the other. Over/entering, under/exiting. Keep it consistent and you'll always have a nice edge of cloth. A plain weave wouldn't require it. But certain twills do. It's a good tool but it's not always necessary. 

http://www.anchorageweavespin.org/tips-floatingselvedges.html


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