# Prejudice?



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

If I have been beaten bloody 12 times by crinrolians and each time saved by a vulcan is it prejudice that I am distrustful of crinolinens and respect full of Vulcans ?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

There are several definitions of prejudice.
A-preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience
B-bias, influence, sway, predispose, make biased, make partial, color 

Since the Crinrolians have a history of assaulting and causing you bodily harm, A would not apply.
Being distrustful of the Crinrolian(s) because of past behaviour by a specific person or group of persons who happen to be Crinrolian would show a reasonable bias.

Properly carving out the proper phrasing and terminology is becoming lost as any Vulcan or Crinolian who is proud of their ethnicity and heritage would by definition be labeled a racist.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

AmericanStand said:


> If I have been beaten bloody 12 times by crinrolians and each time saved by a vulcan is it prejudice that I am distrustful of crinolinens and respect full of Vulcans ?


Wouldn't it be strange if real life was that simple?


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

AmericanStand said:


> If I have been beaten bloody 12 times by crinrolians and each time saved by a vulcan is it prejudice that I am distrustful of crinolinens and respect full of Vulcans ?


I'd say you're pretty stupid for not disappearing when you saw the second or third Crinolian, and you shouldn't rely on a Vulcan if he waits until after you get beaten bloody to "save" you. 

geo


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

geo in mi said:


> I'd say you're pretty stupid for not disappearing when you saw the second or third Crinolian, and you shouldn't rely on a Vulcan if he waits until after you get beaten bloody to "save" you.
> 
> geo


Good points.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

So after 3 lessons prejudice should be the proper behavior?


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

Ok.. I see where this is going.. I'll play!

Sounds to me like its the Vulcans setting this all up since there always seems to be one around to save you after you're bloodied. 
Could be the start of a protection racket. How many times do you need to get beat up before you're willing to pay someone to protect you?



AmericanStand said:


> So after 3 lessons prejudice should be the proper behavior?


Prejudice is never the proper behavior.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Murby said:


> Ok.. I see where this is going.. I'll play!
> ........
> Prejudice is never the proper behavior.


So I should never avoid them ?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> If I have been beaten bloody 12 times by crinrolians and each time saved by a vulcan is it prejudice that I am distrustful of crinolinens and respect full of Vulcans ?





Murby said:


> Ok.. I see where this is going.. I'll play!
> 
> Sounds to me like its the Vulcans setting this all up since there always seems to be one around to save you after you're bloodied.
> Could be the start of a protection racket. How many times do you need to get beat up before you're willing to pay someone to protect you?
> ...





AmericanStand said:


> So after 3 lessons prejudice should be the proper behavior?



You can play if you've got time for it Murby, I'll pass.

The question *posed at the beginning* was a simple one.
Is it prejudice?
Pre-judging.
Yes.
If you judge a person prior to getting to know them (the prefix 'pre' means before) then the behavior is correctly classified as pre-judice.

The 2nd question is a quagmire, and I try to avoid traps whether natural or man made.
A useful tool in those situations is called discernment.
It isn't 100% reliable but is proportional to how good that talent is, assuming one has it at all.
IOW, it relies on individual circumstances combined with past experience.
It could be viewed as partially prejudicial at the same time as being key to your survival in this world.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

farmrbrown said:


> You can play if you've got time for it Murby, I'll pass.
> 
> The question *posed at the beginning* was a simple one.
> Is it prejudice?
> ...


And here I thought we were going to stick to the silly Star Trek thing.

Prejudice seems to have become a dirty word in society.. an attack tool that's been painted (almost said colored! LOL) to mean the person with prejudice is somehow a bad person. 

If you're tattooed up with gang colors and approach me with a knife, I'm going to prejudge you before I know what your intentions are. 

There's a fine line between prejudice and common sense... even in the absence of experience. But the word experience is also a messy term because technically, a visual assessment is a form of experience. Statistical knowledge is a form of experience, as well as many other types of considerations.

As we use the term "prejudice" in common use, its meant to refer to a blanket judgement of people with specific and easily recognizable characteristics.

I think the easiest way to discern prejudice would be to imagine removing the specific characteristic while keeping the circumstances the same.

If a black guy tattooed with gang colors and a knife approached me, would I react any differently if it was a white guy tattooed with gang colors and a knife? If the answer is yes, then I'm prejudiced against the color of his skin, if the answer is no, then I'm not prejudiced against the color of his skin, I'm prejudiced against something else.

As you said farmrbrown, its prejudging.. and as humans, we prejudge pretty much everything.. we'd be an extinct species if we didn't.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bingo.
Behavioral analysts have noted that for years.
Humans have been "tribal" since the beginning. In fact, it's a trait of every species to run in herds, packs, flocks, schools, colonies, etc.

It usually starts with "Hey there!" ..........or........."You ain't from around here, are ya?"


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

AmericanStand said:


> So after 3 lessons prejudice should be the proper behavior?


Maybe not if they are karate lessons.

geo


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

AmericanStand said:


> If I have been beaten bloody 12 times by crinrolians and each time saved by a vulcan is it prejudice that I am distrustful of crinolinens and respect full of Vulcans ?


Prejudice happens. The important part is how you let it manifest. If it governs your personal decisions without impacting others it tends to be mostly harmless. Changing the world around you however becomes much more tricky.

If you speak out against crinolinens as a race rather than the problem of violence then it becomes more problematic and arguably racist.

Advocacy and method here of are very important

Two examples:

"Crinolinens are violent and dangerous." Prejudice, racist, not ok

"Violence is a common problem, particularly in certain parts of the Crinolinen community and needs to be addressed." The Crinos won't all agree with it, but it doesn't disparage all of them.

Modern political correctness goes overboard a lot these days, but sometimes it is a poor choice of words to convey the point.


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## Vjklander (Apr 24, 2018)

Use the 2nd amendment on the Crinheads. Problem solved.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

The old chestnut, "shoot 'em all and let god sort 'em out"?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> The old chestnut, "shoot 'em all and let god sort 'em out"?


No, you only shoot the ones that are an immediate threat.
The OP's premise was being "beaten bloody", which would be legal justification for the use of deadly force.

Some say "Violence is not the answer."
I say "It depends on the question."


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Would I ever be justified in killing them as they approached me to save myself the beating ?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Are you in your home or car? Has he broken in?

Did you tell him to STOP!?

Do you have witnesses?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> Would I ever be justified in killing them as they approached me to save myself the beating ?


That depends on the circumstances.
Do you see a weapon being pulled out?
If no weapon, are they putting their hands in position to strike you and close enough to do it?
Are there others coming behind you at the same time?
Are there verbal threats of violence accompanying their approach?

(Those will likely get a "yes".)

Are they looking down at their smarty phone and don't even see you?
Are they laughing and talking with others in a non threatening way?
Are they approaching with a piece of paper and asking directions?
Are they hobbling up on a crutch asking to bum a smoke?

(Those will likely get a "no"..........however you might get a surprise beat down anyway. Ask me how I know)


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Would I ever be justified in killing them as they approached me to save myself the beating ?


It depends on the laws where you are, but in most places if you *reasonably* fear you are in danger of death or serious injury, you are allowed to use deadly force.

The point of using that force is to stop the threat.

You would not be justified in "killing" anyone who was not an immediate threat.

Details matter in such cases, so your question can only be answered by "It depends."


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> No, you only shoot the ones that are an immediate threat.
> The OP's premise was being "beaten bloody", which would be legal justification for the use of deadly force.
> 
> Some say "Violence is not the answer."
> I say "It depends on the question."


It's sad and rather pathetic that you constantly post in response to something I've said because you know I have you on ignore.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> It's sad and rather pathetic that you constantly post in response to something I've said because you know *I have you on ignore*.


Evidently you don't really, since you're both quoting me and responding.
Am I supposed to limit *my* posts because of what you (*claim* to) do?

What happened to being able to state opinions and say what one thinks?
Does that only apply to you?



> Irish Pixie said: ↑
> Why are you trying to get the thread moved or deleted now? It's OK for you to have an opinion, correct? *Which rule(s) were broken?* By whom? That's part of the report by proxy that you're doing with this post, you must say which post and which rule.





Irish Pixie said:


> *It's name calling and in some cases bullying because not everyone kowtows to their opinion.* Some posts are more stupid than others, but it's all about theirs being the only "correct" opinion even if they don't understand (or pretend not to) what they're posting.


Someone already pointed out you're exactly the things you complain of, so I don't need to repeat it when you continue proving they were correct.

But *you have me on ignore,* so you won't see any of this at all.

Or report it if you lied.

I really don't care one way or the other.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Here we go again - another thread hijacked due two who act like children and get baited so easily.....


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Wolf mom said:


> Here we go again - another thread hijacked due two who act like children and get baited so easily.....


And yet you responded... LOL


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

I think I'll just go hang out with the Klingons. They may be a bit uncouth at times, but with friends like them, you don't get beat up!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Wolf mom said:


> Here we go again - another thread hijacked due two who act like children and get baited so easily.....


It hasn't been hijacked unless you make it that way.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> And yet you responded... LOL





Bearfootfarm said:


> It hasn't been hijacked unless you make it that way.


Stating my thoughts - interesting I never mentioned anyone being tangential to the main point of the thread, but yet you two chose to make yourselves known.

It was so nice over the weekend... no weeds in the garden.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It would be so nice if people talked about the topic. I was enjoying this one.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Wolf mom said:


> Stating my thoughts - interesting *I never mentioned anyone* being tangential to the main point of the thread, but yet you two chose to make yourselves known.


Let's not play silly denial games.

If you don't want the thread "hijacked" then you shouldn't post about anything other than the actual topic. Otherwise you become what you're complaining about.

It's just reality.
Or maybe it's prejudice, and right on topic?


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

Getting back to the original topic and touching on Vulcans...

It sort of depends on if you are a Vulcan if/how you praise them. That could be (or misinterpreted as) biased favoritism and prejudice used as a tool to keep Vulcans in a superior situation, or at war with the Crinos. Not to say every Vulcan has done this, but some vulcans do play this game.

If it goes so far as saying Vulcans should have rights a Crinolinelinelin (forgot the spelling) does not then it definitely falls under unreasonable prejudice.

The crinos could also be beating you bloody over being friendly with the Vulcans. Really there are a lot of variables to consider on a case by case basis.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

The Vulcan/Crino method while it sounds cheesy is actually a really good way to discuss something abstractly without getting into more distracting bickering if we substituted the names with something more relevant (and angering) from modern society.

It helps people keep from getting to personal.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

This whole thread is just living it's life by skimming the borders of the premise that it explores.

When I was a kid, I went to school with a number of different "races" of kids. I had to watch out for trouble from the kids that liked to cause trouble. There were kids that you could not mess with who operated within a solid understanding or right and wrong, or "don't mess with me and I won't mess with you". 

Once I got stood up by three black kids and they took what little lawn mowing money that I had along with the lunch tickets that I had bought for the week. [stand back for a moment, other kids of other races took things from me too, this is just one incident] I reported the loss to my homeroom teacher. Two days later, I was called to the office, one of the kids that was a part of the group that took my money and lunch tickets was sitting in the chair in front of the Principle's desk. The Principle asked me only about the lunch ticket, we were told to sign our tickets as soon as we bought them, I had done so. He handed me a ticket that had whatever name scribbled out on the back. The Principle asked me if it was mine. I focused on trying to see through the scribbling to recognize what I know my signature of that time to be. After a moment, with me doing my best to see under the scribbling, the Principle said that he was sorry that he did not have a magnifying glass at which time I paused trying to think to myself if I put my magnifying glass in my pocket that morning and stood up straight and checked my pockets with my hands and uttered a colorful epitaph, [I found magnifying glasses to be incredibly useful before I got taken to the eye doctor] and the kid and the Principle both busted out laughing.

When the laughing stopped, even though I knew that this was one of the kids that had taken it and my money, I said that I could not be certain that this particular ticket was one of the ones that was stolen and said no more.

The funnier thing was that that kid became one of my good friends, the other two kids would stand in the shadows when we hung out at school, I do not remember his name but every time he brought up the incident in the office, he could not keep a straight face.

Point being is that pre-judging people is an absolute necessity. When you have known things about others then a person should act accordingly. When you have nothing to go on about someone who could do you harm and they are similar [in demeanor, not appearance] to others that have caused you harm in the past, you are stupid not to be on your toes.

I still had trouble from others in that school and from the next one that I attended, and the next one but, somehow, that event made my world a better place.

ETA: I think that what I am trying to say is that we should not judge an entire group of people for the actions of a few but that we should not go into any situation blindly, that we should use the understandings that we have established and hope for the best.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Seems pretty clear that you are getting beaten up because you show the Crinolians no respect. Twice you didn't use a Capital "C" to spell their name--but you used a Capital "V" for the Vulcan

geo


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Prismseed said:


> Getting back to the original topic and touching on Vulcans...
> 
> It sort of depends on if you are a Vulcan if/how you praise them. That could be (or misinterpreted as) biased favoritism and prejudice used as a tool to keep Vulcans in a superior situation, or at war with the Crinos. Not to say every Vulcan has done this, but some vulcans do play this game.
> 
> ...





IndyDave said:


> I think I'll just go hang out with the Klingons. They may be a bit uncouth at times, but with friends like them, you don't get beat up!





geo in mi said:


> Seems pretty clear that you are getting beaten up because you show the Crinolians no respect. Twice you didn't use a Capital "C" to spell their name--but you used a Capital "V" for the Vulcan
> 
> geo



I think there are other Star Trek fans out there like @Murby and @Nevada whom I debate from time to time, but perhaps may be enticed back into this thread..............

IIRC Trekkies, aren't the Vulcans and Klingons distant cousins? Or was that the Romulans?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulan
(Never mind)

The point I was making was that despite our differences in actions and appearance, we all share a common ancestry, which I think is what Gene Roddenberry was trying to get across to us as well.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Most things we learn are based on our experiences. Everyone's experiences are different. I have never treated a person badly nor have I seen anyone treated badly based upon their color or religion or sex. I tend to downplay that discrimination is a big deal. I recognize that some people see discrimination in every moment of their lives.
I have never raped or attempted to rape any woman. None of my male friends showed any indication that they have raped or attempted to rape a woman. To me date rape or getting grabbed and pulled into an alley is exceedingly rare. But to many women their experiences are vastly different. Based upon these vastly different perceptions, I tend to disbelieve a woman's report that she was the victim of a decades old unreported sexual harassment. Women that have experienced sexual assault would believe these reports.
While working in a prison, I have observed hundreds of young Black men lie, cheat and assault. When restrained, I have observed them to yell, " You are hurting me," when they are not being hurt. I have observed the race card pulled at every turn. I have observed a pattern where white inmates show respect for authority, while Black inmates tend to offer no respect and generally exacerbate situations. So when I see the tail end of a Cop vs young Black man, I tend to retain a skepticism of what is claimed. A Black man that got pulled over for driving 5 MPH over the speed limit in an all white community, will tend to believe that Cops are racists.
When I first move to a very rural community, neighbors warned me about certain families and offered good reports about others. Based upon actual experiences, I found those reports wrong. But as the years went by, I have changed my opinion a few times. I do that because I judge people as individuals.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

GTX63 said:


> There are several definitions of prejudice.
> A-preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience
> B-bias, influence, sway, predispose, make biased, make partial, color
> 
> ...


I disagree with A. 

Preconceived notions can be based on experience. Prejudice serves as a way not to rationally think and make decisions about how to respond to every situation in life. That includes something as simple as unlocking, getting into your car and starting it which comes from experience, more innate based on DNA from your ancestors and that adopted for no rational reason.

Many equate prejudice primarily with race. That's a very small percentage of our overall prejudice. Prejudice is a very human trait. All of us are prejudiced. Getting through our daily lives would be much more troublesome and complex otherwise.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

My apologies to the Crinoline for not capitalizing their name it seems to be a function of my voice writer to capitalize Vulcan but not Crinoline. 

The Crinolines give no warning at all before attacking and use only their bare appendages. 

As I get older and do not heal as well I find these meetings becoming a bigger threat to my life.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> My apologies to the Crinoline for not capitalizing their name it seems to be a function of my voice writer to capitalize Vulcan but not Crinoline.
> 
> The Crinolines give no warning at all before attacking and use only their bare appendages.
> 
> As I get older and do not heal as well I find these meetings becoming a bigger threat to my life.


Well, I can't say I ever met one of these Crinoline guys and maybe they do give a warning that is too subtle for you to see, again I don't know anything about them.
But a suggestion, have you tried opening up a big ole can of whoopass on them perhaps with some help, and see if that opens up a line of communication they'll understand next time?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

No can of whoopas here my people do not have speed ,agility or strength.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> No can of whoopas here my people do not have speed ,agility or strength.


Dang it man. That's bad news.
Only one tool left, but it's a the best.
Do they have any _brains?_
As my strength, agility and speed wanes, I find myself relying on that last one and hope it doesn't fail me for many more years.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> As my strength, agility and speed wanes, I find myself relying on that last one and hope it doesn't fail me for many more years.


Tell him the one about you backing down the bank CEO to get a loan.
Maybe he can pick up some tips.
Was it BoA or Citibank?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Tell him the one about you backing down the bank CEO to get a loan.
> Maybe he can pick up some tips.
> Was it BoA or Citibank?


I think you're mistaken. I avoid usury whenever possible and certainly wouldn't insist upon it.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

geo in mi said:


> I'd say you're pretty stupid for not disappearing when you saw the second or third Crinolian, and you shouldn't rely on a Vulcan if he waits until after you get beaten bloody to "save" you.
> 
> geo


But then you get accused of crossing the street to avoid the Crinolians, which only a racist or a xenophobe would do.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> I think you're mistaken. *I avoid usury* whenever possible and certainly wouldn't insist upon it.


So you have never had a bank loan?


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

I was walking through a Meijer store one day when a young, tough looking Crinolian came directly into my path. I decided I would show him some respect--so I looked him straight in the eye and said "Good Morning!" I was really proud of myself for being so respectful,. Then he said, "Hyya, Pops...."

geo


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

My people are far too slow to avoid anything think along the lines of a drowsy panda confronting a pack of Australian Shepherd‘s fed exclusively on coffee beans


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Dang I thought that drowsy panda idea was one of my best.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

I think a sloth would have been a better choice. They're so trendy with young'uns these days.


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## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> If I have been beaten bloody 12 times by crinrolians and each time saved by a vulcan is it prejudice that I am distrustful of crinolinens and respect full of Vulcans ?



Much simpler for me, I don’t like any of them. Seth


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Prismseed said:


> I think a sloth would have been a better choice. They're so trendy with young'uns these days.


Yes but they have connotations of , well sloth and my people are hard workers. yes like real sloths.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

AmericanStand said:


> my people are hard workers.


Hrm a poor hard working person getting beat on. Maybe you're misrepresenting the situation to play the victim card.


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