# Critical Race theory - what is it to you?



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Critical race theory gets brought up in many discussions.

I would love to read what others here believe it is.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

It is communism getting in on the race-game.

That’s not my opinion of what it is. It’s just a concise statement of fact.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

A waste of time, IMHO. I also see it for what it is politically. Just another way to divide the American population.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Another group with a Messiah complex, lacking any actual intellectual facts or logic.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Idaho senate passes 'critical race theory' bill; now goes to governor's desk


The Idaho Senate has passed the ban on teaching the so-called critical race theory by a vote of 27 to 8. The bill now heads back to the house and then to the governor's desk. Both opponents and supporters of the bill say it has been the measure holding back any movement on education bills. The...




idahonews.com


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

It's a way to teach children to become racist and that people should be judged by the color of their skin instead of personal merits.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

It’s racist garbage.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Convoluted speculation from racists who have nothing better to do with their lives


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Critical race theory gets brought up in many discussions.
> 
> I would love to read what others here believe it is.


Is there a reason you haven’t volunteered your view?

And, welcome back, BTW.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

The creed of a bunch of race hustlers and scab pullers who stand to make a profit off of overblown claims of racism.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It is good trolling material.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

painterswife said:


> Critical race theory gets brought up in many discussions.
> 
> I would love to read what others here believe it is.


As GunMonkey and GTX63 alluded to, why not throw yourself out there and give an opinion?


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

todd_xxxx said:


> As GunMonkey and GTX63 alluded to, why not throw yourself out there and give an opinion?


I think we already know the answer to that


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## Bront (Jan 26, 2021)

painterswife said:


> Critical race theory gets brought up in many discussions.
> 
> I would love to read what others here believe it is.


Meh....just an attempt for sociologists to justify their existance....


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

RJ2019 said:


> I think we already know the answer to that


Then you would be wrong. I have heard the phrase bandied about but I had not researched or given it much thought. I am now reading and researching it. That is what I asked others here about what they thought it was.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

We have this
Critical race theory is an academic movement made up of civil-rights scholars and activists in the United States who seek to critically examine the law as it intersects with issues of race, and to challenge mainstream liberal approaches to racial justice 

Or we have this


Danaus29 said:


> It's a way to teach children to become racist and that people should be judged by the color of their skin instead of personal merits.


Which by my reading are basically the same.

It is white guilt amped up to 11.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

painterswife said:


> Critical race theory gets brought up in many discussions.
> 
> I would love to read what others here believe it is.


Just a continuation of the BS 1619 Project.

An entire class of people wanting payment for wounds not suffered and perceived wrongs and injustices never experienced. 

Get your money for nothing and your chicks for free.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

For those of you that have a more favorable view of CRT. This video is pro CRT and you have to recognize the resemblance to Marxism and Socialism. Instead of using the failed approach of Capital and Labor to divide, CRT uses race.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

I've smelled barnyards and pig stys which had a better aroma and were more useful.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

It's not a phase I use (pun intended). I have no idea what it means and I really don't need as catch phrase to show me how to treat people.

What is it actually?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> It's a way to teach children to become racist and that people should be judged by the color of their skin instead of personal merits.


Is that what it is? If so, I don't need it.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

It's an attempt or maybe an excuse to explain why American blacks on average underachieve in school, underperform economically, and commit more crimes than other "races", by blaming it on systemic racism.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

MoonRiver said:


> It's an attempt or maybe an excuse to explain why American blacks on average underachieve in school, underperform economically, and commit more crimes than other "races", by blaming it on systemic racism.


I agree that there is systemic racism. It is done by the government and they in turn blame it on everyone else.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

There is systemic racism. Affirmative action is one example.


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

mreynolds said:


> Is that what it is? If so, I don't need it.


Critical Race theory is essentially a use of Marxist critical theory, applied to race relations. In a nutshell, the Marxist view is that there is no "objective" set of laws or government institutions, they are all set up in a way to favour the dominant class. Critical race theory says not only are these institutions set up to favour the dominant economic class, but that race is used as social construct to keep the poor down, and the privileged in their seats of power. 

I think some of the people in the streets talking about critical race theory are focusing on the white supremacy/people of colour imbalance, but without necessarily tying it explicitly to social class and capitalism. Whether that is a fair use or not, is a matter of opinion. 

I am not anticipating a lot of Critical Race Theory fans in this thread.....


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The Paw said:


> I am not anticipating a lot of Critical Race Theory fans in this thread


Are you a fan?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

todd_xxxx said:


> There is systemic racism. Affirmative action is one example.


It wasn't something that was verbalized when I got my first job but it made for an awful experience. No direction, no expectations and no real reason to show up.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The intent of affirmative action was honorable and good. But like so many ideas not rooted in experience and respective of tradition, its unintended consequences did more harm than the good. Now AA has been institutionalized and an industry of race hustlers profit by it continuation. No one has the courage to call it quits.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

The Paw said:


> Critical Race theory is essentially a use of Marxist critical theory, applied to race relations. In a nutshell, the Marxist view is that there is no "objective" set of laws or government institutions, they are all set up in a way to favour the dominant class. Critical race theory says not only are these institutions set up to favour the dominant economic class, but that race is used as social construct to keep the poor down, and the privileged in their seats of power.
> 
> I think some of the people in the streets talking about critical race theory are focusing on the white supremacy/people of colour imbalance, but without necessarily tying it explicitly to social class and capitalism. Whether that is a fair use or not, is a matter of opinion.
> 
> I am not anticipating a lot of Critical Race Theory fans in this thread.....


Back in the early '80's I did some remodel work for a black couple that I knew very well. She was always dressed nice but practical. He never went anywhere (including church) without his overalls. One nice set for sunday's and funerals. He drove a beat up truck that was 30 years old. 

A dirt guy I recommended asked me if they had the means to pay for a job. I told him that that man just bought 10 new log trucks for depreciation because the others were being sold off. Then I told him about his wife's 2 Cadillac dealerships. One in Dallas and one in Houston. They did some of this during Jim Crow laws and did even better after.

Success has nothing to do with race.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

The Paw said:


> I think some of the people in the streets talking about critical race theory are focusing on the white supremacy/people of colour imbalance, but without necessarily tying it explicitly to social class and capitalism. Whether that is a fair use or not, is a matter of opinion.


Like most journalism on the subject, you marginalized the nexus and lineage. The direct, verifiable lineage is:
Critical Theory -> Critical Legal Studies -> Critical Race Theory.

Critical Theory is the Marxist philosophy that the people are exploited by socio-political constructs that disadvantage the working class, to the benefit of the bourgeoisie. Because the injustice is inherent in the societal construct, society needs to be torn down and rebuilt in the Marxist model.

Critical Legal Studies is a philosophy developed by a group of law students and their Marxist professors. It applies Critical Theory to the law, postulating that the law is constructed in such a way that the working class is disadvantaged. Because it is systemic within the law, the entire legal body needs to be torn down and rebuilt.... under, wouldn’t you know it, the Marxist model.

Critical Race Theory was developed by black students at Harvard Law, studying under a Marxist professor who taught Critical Legal Studies. Critical Race Theory postulates that the socio-political construct and body law of the western world is inherently designed to keep the black person down, and, because it is inherent in the construct, we need to tear the whole system down (defund the police, for example), and rebuild it in the Marxist model.


It’s either disingenuous or naive to suspect that the drivers today don’t realize the Marxist roots of Critical Race Theory- almost as if to dismiss the Marxist motivations of “this” CRT. The founders of Black Lives Matter touted themselves as “trained Marxists”. They know exactly what they’re doing.


I wasn’t being facetious when I linked communism and the race game. Communism is an ideological cancer. Critical Theory metastasized into the body law as Critical Legal Studies. Critical Legal Studies metastasized into the race-industry as Critical Race Theory.

Critical Race Theory is quite literally “_communism getting in on the race game_”. Nothing more. Nothing less.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Race baiters promoting racism.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Just read this article. The founders seem to want to abolish the first amendment because it allows hate speech. I think that calling all white people racist is a form of hate speech.

Forgot to link the article;








Critical Race Theory


Critical race theory scholars have advocated for hate speech laws and have said there is no value to protecting such speech under the First Amendment.




www.mtsu.edu


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Like most journalism on the subject, you marginalized the nexus and lineage. The direct, verifiable lineage is:
> Critical Theory -> Critical Legal Studies -> Critical Race Theory.
> 
> Critical Theory is the Marxist philosophy that the people are exploited by socio-political constructs that disadvantage the working class, to the benefit of the bourgeoisie. Because the injustice is inherent in the societal construct, society needs to be torn down and rebuilt in the Marxist model.
> ...


I commend you on that. You truly have a talent.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Danaus29 said:


> Just read this article. The founders seem to want to abolish the first amendment because it allows hate speech. I think that calling all white people racist is a form of hate speech.
> 
> Forgot to link the article;
> 
> ...


Maybe you forgot a link?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

HDRider said:


> Maybe you forgot a link?


It's there now. I edited it to add the link.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

HDRider said:


> The intent of affirmative action was honorable and good. But like so many ideas not rooted in experience and respective of tradition, its unintended consequences did more harm than the good. Now AA has been institutionalized and an industry of race hustlers profit by it continuation. No one has the courage to call it quits.


I might have posted this before, I don't remember.

When I was in my late 20's in the mid 1970's, I interviewed with the government for a job as a computer analyst. I had scored 100 on the government entrance exam for that position. There were at least 3 openings.

After the interview, the woman from personnel called to see if I had any questions. I asked what my chances were of being hired. She said "Not good". First is anyone already working for the government who qualified. Second we have to hire any veteran who passed the test. (So if they got a 70, they jumped ahead of me). Third they would hire blacks who had passed the exam. (Again, if they got at least a 70, they jumped ahead of me). Fourth was women and you guessed it, if they got at least a 70, they jumped ahead of me.

What was amazing is I got hired. One veteran, one woman, and me. I guess they ran out of people who had passed the test, except for me.

Anyway, that's how long this crap has been going on - over 40 years.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I've been called a lot of things but racist is a very few on the adjective level. I don't know the grammar on that 😅 . Regardless of race I'm happy when a tenant tells me they bought a home!!!


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

MoonRiver said:


> I might have posted this before, I don't remember.
> 
> When I was in my late 20's in the mid 1970's, I interviewed with the government for a job as a computer analyst. I had scored 100 on the government entrance exam for that position. There were at least 3 openings.
> 
> ...


Too long.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

TripleD said:


> I've been called a lot of things but racist is a very few on the adjective level. I don't know the grammar on that 😅 . Regardless of race I'm happy when a tenant tells me they bought a home!!!


Everyone is getting played 😁. It's been going on for decades. Don't deal with the Dramacide... Enjoy your trip!!!


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## Hossplay (Jul 21, 2012)

Danaus29 said:


> It's a way to teach children to become racist and that people should be judged by the color of their skin instead of personal merits.


Exactly, but it is much more than that. It is also enforced participation in indoctrination in the work place and it is being propagandized and has infected almost every aspect of a white person's life. It is reverse racisim and discrimination. It is divisive and it is a lie. It is ironic that claims of systemic racism are that the black community are still inslaved and are denied equal opportunity when Barak Obama was the son of a single parent of modest means and he became the first black President; Kamela Harris, the multiracial daughter of immigrant Indian/Jamaican parents became the first woman Vice President of color.It could not have hapened without white votes. Harris grew up in a less than affluent black neighborhood in Berkley, California. She graduated from Howard University, a Black college. She received her law degree through the Hasting's College of Law's Legal Education Opportunity .Program. Her sister is an attorney and her niece was the former Head of Strategy at Uber. Hardly the stories of deprived American citizens of African decent. Harris is worth over 5 million dollars and Obama's net worth is estimated to be 70 million dollars.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

They lost me on this theory when they define it as "an academic movement". Nothing good comes out of our higher education system except brain-washing of our youth by professors who've never lived or worked anywhere except in their small academic world.


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## Hossplay (Jul 21, 2012)

mreynolds said:


> Too long.


No. Longer than that. JFK by executive order signed affirmative action into .law in March of 1961. I entered the Job marked as a 20 year old in 1961. In order to compete on civil service exams I had to score over 80% to compete with affirmative action applicants with a score of 70. In addition I was height challenged and discriminated against. I was too short to be hired by a police department. My first job was as a correction officer where the height requirement was lower. Police departments later had to lower their height standards because Latino and women applicants were shorter.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Hossplay said:


> No. Longer than that. JFK by executive order signed affirmative action into .law in March of 1961. I entered the Job marked as a 20 year old in 1961. In order to compete on civil service exams I had to score over 80% to compete with affirmative action applicants with a score of 70. In addition I was height challenged and discriminated against. I was too short to be hired by a police department. My first job was as a correction officer where the height requirement was lower. Police departments later had to lower their height standards because Latino and women applicants were shorter.


I believe @mreynolds simply meant it had been occurring for "too long". Unless I missed his point.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Hossplay said:


> No. Longer than that. JFK by executive order signed affirmative action into .law in March of 1961. I entered the Job marked as a 20 year old in 1961. In order to compete on civil service exams I had to score over 80% to compete with affirmative action applicants with a score of 70. In addition I was height challenged and discriminated against. I was too short to be hired by a police department. My first job was as a correction officer where the height requirement was lower. Police departments later had to lower their height standards because Latino and women applicants were shorter.


Been there. Got the T shirt.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Hossplay said:


> No. Longer than that. JFK by executive order signed affirmative action into .law in March of 1961. I entered the Job marked as a 20 year old in 1961. In order to compete on civil service exams I had to score over 80% to compete with affirmative action applicants with a score of 70. In addition I was height challenged and discriminated against. I was too short to be hired by a police department. My first job was as a correction officer where the height requirement was lower. Police departments later had to lower their height standards because Latino and women applicants were shorter.


In 1986 I thought I had found my calling. I bid A federal job that I thought was "a good deal." 

Turns out I was second to lowest bidder. I bid 28k on a municipal job. Remodel on a city building. The lowest bidder was 27.5 but he didn't have the necessary bond. 

The winner was an actual contractor from Mexico. He bid 40k. I asked why 40k was better than than 28k. 

I got told it was because he was a minority. That's what made the city of Lufkin Texas pay 12,000 dollars more for the contract. 

Makes perfect sense of you think about it. It's not their money after all.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

nchobbyfarm said:


> I believe @mreynolds simply meant it had been occurring for "too long". Unless I missed his point.


Nailed it.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Hubby lost out on a job to a black female applicant with a much lower score. She really didn't qualify, they hired her to satisfy 2 quotas. It was a good thing though, the job was in Chicago.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

This is a thread that has shown how strong common sense still is among those who aren't willing to fall into line for every manure wagon of enlightenment that rolls into the pasture.
If you believe there is something positive to critical race theory, you have already consumed more than the recommended daily dose of brainwash.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> This is a thread that has shown how strong common sense still is among those who aren't willing to fall into line for every manure wagon of enlightenment that rolls into the pasture.
> If you believe there is something positive to critical race theory, you have already consumed more than the recommended daily dose of brainwash.


Well, we still haven’t seen what the OP, @painterswife , thinks about it. She is the one that brought it up, after all.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Walk into your local VFW on Friday night and post a banner on the wall that says "America Sucks and Soldiers are Criminals" then turn to the bar and tell them to discuss amongst themselves as you walk out the door.
This bee has no interest in convincing a fly that honey is better than HS.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

GTX63 said:


> Walk into your local VFW on Friday night and post a banner on the wall that says "America Sucks and Soldiers are Criminals" then turn to the bar and tell them to discuss amongst themselves as you walk out the door.
> This bee has no interest in convincing a fly that honey is better than HS.


Or run, as the case may be.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Critical Race Theory is just another tool to divide the people.
Why do we keep falling for it?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> Critical Race Theory is just another tool to divide the people.
> Why do we keep falling for it?


It seems like every time somebody sees a problem, they want to fix it yesterday and they loud radical voices demand radical results. Loud radical voices also seem to find problems lurking around every corner.

Those loud radical voices are why I mention so often that I don't want anyone speaking for me.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

I am trying to understand it, and if it would have any effect on me negatively or positively if I were a student. 

I was trying to see if it is being used in our school district here or where I used to live. 
It sure is stirring things up in one School.

These articles came up in my search.
The decision to ban it was just reversed to allow it in the School District.

I notice one mentions parental consent, but I'm not sure it's related to CRT.
Would that be reasonable, by allowing consent to take the class as is the case for sex Ed in some places.

I found this statement and it makes the most sense.

"These are different lenses to be a critical thinker," he said. "Now when our students hear that word (critical race theory) or any of these, they have a context to think about it. They can choose whether they adhere to it or don't adhere to it." 









The Germantown School Board reverses its ban on critical race theory


The Germantown School Board reversed its decision to ban critical race theory from its schools.



www.jsonline.com









__





Germantown School Board rescinds controversial motion at April 26 meeting | Express News, Your Local News







discoverhometown.com


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

IMO it should only be offered in colleges as extracurricular courses. Not in k-12.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

doozie said:


> Would that be reasonable, by allowing consent to take the class as is the case for sex Ed in some places.


Would it be reasonable based on what? 
K-12 wasn't supposed to be a hall for controversy and classes based on dubious ideology.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> Would it be reasonable based on what?
> K-12 wasn't supposed to be a hall for controversy and classes based on dubious ideology.


Based on any controversial subject matter.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Ok, now read the 2nd sentence in the quote you posted.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

doozie said:


> I am trying to understand it, and if it would have any effect on me negatively or positively if I were a student.


You’re seriously trying to figure out if being taught Marxist theory (from the standpoint of it being anything other than evil) would have a positive or negative effect on you as a child?

Help me out here. What possible benefit is there to come from teaching impressionable children that communism is anything but evil?

Should we _consider_ teaching classes on the positive effects of genocide? You know, just in case there might be a benefit to it.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> You’re seriously trying to figure out if being taught Marxist theory (from the standpoint of it being anything other than evil) would have a positive or negative effect on you as a child?
> 
> Help me out here. What possible benefit is there to come from teaching impressionable children that communism is anything but evil?
> 
> Should we _consider_ teaching classes on the positive effects of genocide? You know, just in case there might be a benefit to it.


You clearly misunderstand me.

Teaching or discussing a theory doesn't equal being in agreement with it.

I have not been exposed to any actual class material, and I'd assume neither have you.
Would exposure be harmful? I don't know, I have nothing to base it on.

Parents objected to banning it in the school district, just as parents wanted it banned.
The could opt their students out, or give permission to attend the class.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

doozie said:


> You clearly misunderstand me.
> 
> Teaching or discussing a theory doesn't equal being in agreement with it.
> 
> ...


IMO it should be an opt in only and the parents pay for it separately. The children should be learning subjects.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

no really said:


> IMO it should be an opt in only and the parents pay for it separately. The children should be learning subjects.


No kidding. They just keep adding to curriculum so our kids are missing out on a basic education. Community colleges are teaching now what used to be taught in high school. In my limited experience anyway. Which is probably why they’ll make CC free.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> No kidding. They just keep adding to curriculum so our kids are missing out on a basic education. Community colleges are teaching now what used to be taught in high school. In my limited experience anyway. Which is probably why they’ll make CC free.


Exactly, some of the most sought after college courses are things like remedial math, reading comprehension and basic science. Extra costs for those who want to attend college.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

doozie said:


> Would exposure be harmful? I don't know, I have nothing to base it on.
> 
> The could opt their students out, or give permission to attend the class.


Or, set up privately funded clinics in neighborhood community centers, post flyers and invite those willing to show up for a lesson.
The difference however, and this is known to those pushing it, is that you wouldn't have a captive audience, or much of one either.

You have nothing to confirm if it is harmful or not, yet you are still willing to put it into the classroom. Are there such gaps in the curriculum, now that reading, writing and arithmetic have been mastered?


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

no really said:


> IMO it should be an opt in only and the parents pay for it separately. The children should be learning subjects.


I feel that way about school requiring a Phys Ed requirement to graduate. Time could have been better spent IMO.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Well, we still haven’t seen what the OP, @painterswife , thinks about it. She is the one that brought it up, after all.


And I doubt you will.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

doozie said:


> I feel that way about school requiring a Phys Ed requirement to graduate. Time could have been better spent IMO.


I agree, at least beyond elementary school. 
When I was in high school in GA, they didn’t require PE, which I loved.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> Or, set up privately funded clinics in neighborhood community centers, post flyers and invite those willing to show up for a lesson.
> The difference however, and this is known to those pushing it, is that you wouldn't have a captive audience, or much of one either.
> 
> You have nothing to confirm if it is harmful or not, yet you are still willing to put it into the classroom. Are there such gaps in the curriculum, now that reading, writing and arithmetic have been mastered?


No, that is not what I've said...not at all.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

doozie said:


> You clearly misunderstand me.
> 
> Teaching or discussing a theory doesn't equal being in agreement with it.
> 
> ...


Here is your full quote. Nowhere in there do you mention forbidding it being taught in school; rather you mention "opting out".
BTW, you are prefacing numerous replies that you are being misunderstood.
Consistency in your posts would help us all.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

doozie said:


> You clearly misunderstand me.
> 
> Teaching or discussing a theory doesn't equal being in agreement with it.
> 
> ...


In my opinion exposure should be age appropriate and it would be needed to be presented as a theory and isolated to a specific class and it should not bleed into other classroom subjects, which seems to be happening. 

Logically, part of a High School social studies curriculum would make sense but when that bleeds over to the literature classroom by way of stacking the authors and material to accomodate one specific race, the school has reinforced theory as fact. 

That's also the time when people like myself wonder why their children aren't equal enough to get race oriented authors and reading material. I realize you've indicated it would be too complicated to pander to each minority so maybe it's time to gear educational material to all students and allow them the opportunity to research race oriented authors and material as extra credit work. 

Elevating one race while stepping on the backs others in the name of equality is not equality.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> Here is your full quote. Nowhere in there do you mention forbidding it being taught in school; rather you mention "opting out".
> BTW, you are prefacing numerous replies that you are being misunderstood.
> Consistency in your posts would help us all.


I wasn't aware there was a requirement to be either for or against the subject in this discussion.

I'm still making up my mind with what little I know about it, OK?
And appearantly that's a problem...


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

There is no obligation for anything, including knowledge, experience or expertise. It is after all, discussion. But it does help to understand what it is that a person is trying to say.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

doozie said:


> I wasn't aware there was a requirement to be either for or against the subject in this discussion.
> 
> I'm still making up my mind with what little I know about it, OK?
> And appearantly that's a problem...


There isn’t a requirement to think one way or another. I even asked you to provide some positive aspect to teaching children that communism is anything other than evil.

I’d love to hear the silver lining in teaching children the merits of an ideology that has murdered 10s of millions in the last 100 years, and results in the starvation, persecution, enslavement, torture and murder of large percentages of its citizenry *every single time** it has been put into practice*.

That sound you hear is my fingers drumming the table in wild-eyed, breathlessly-eager anticipation of hearing about this upside I’ve been missing.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

doozie said:


> ...Teaching or discussing a theory doesn't equal being in agreement with it.
> 
> I have not been exposed to any actual class material, and I'd assume neither have you.
> Would exposure be harmful? I don't know, I have nothing to base it on...


Oh. Yeah. Cuz communists are always open and transparent about their aims. The Bolsheviks put out all those helpful flyers explaining how they’d end up murdering millions of their countrymen, _for the greater good, _so the revolution-contemporaries could make an _informed decision_ about which side to support.

What was I thinking?!?


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

There are only two kinds of communists: good ones, and the ones that are still above ambient temperature.

And their value as fertilizer is dubious at best.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> What was I thinking?


I am sure we will get it right


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> I am sure we will get it right


Yeah. This time.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

doozie said:


> Would exposure be harmful? I don't know, I have nothing to base it on.


The OP never intended for this to be anything but a dumpster fire thread, however, you have had 70+ posts to review and google the comments for factual content and to help you gain some perspective, even a surface level understanding of the issue.
You have plenty to base it on, you just have to be honest with yourself.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Seriously, though. That’s what has me so angry about Critical Race Theory.

IT IS MARXISM.
Not kinda Marxism. Not a gateway to Marxism.

It is Marxism making a play at the third-rail of our current social discourse. You can’t criticize the race industry, so the Marxists have found a pulpit from which their rhetoric can’t be criticized, even in our terrarium of so-called “free speech”.

They’re now teaching this ideological disease to our children. Hell, our future officers at West Point just had to take a class on it.

West Point!!! Teaching classes on communism other than where to shoot them for maximum blood loss!!!
WT<edit> is that?!?


If we thought communism was a threat in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s, we haven’t seen anything yet. They’ve found a way to get to our children and our officer cadets.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

This is not dumpster fire thread, nor was it meant to be. It was to read what others on this site thought while I am wading through pages and videos on the subject. There is much to wade through and I appreciate the discussion happening here in addition to that.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> This is not dumpster fire thread, nor was it meant to be. It was to read what others on this site thought while I am wading through pages and videos on the subject. There is much to wade through and I appreciate the discussion happening here in addition to that.


Guess I will give you credit for the attempted research. Who knows, you might even find some practicable, logical, positive, aspect of this theory. Maybe, just maybe, somehow.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> This is not dumpster fire thread, nor was it meant to be. It was to read what others on this site thought while I am wading through pages and videos on the subject. There is much to wade through and I appreciate the discussion happening here in addition to that.


So now we get your view?


Or was this the blatant troll that a few others so eloquently called it?


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)




----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

If one were truly uninformed about critical race theory and it took more than 5 minutes of viewing/reading the source material to decide its merits, it is likely they are unlikely able to have a rational discussion on the matter or worse.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Hiro said:


> ...or worse.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)




----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Hiro said:


> If one were truly uninformed about critical race theory and it took more than 5 minutes of viewing/reading the source material to decide its merits, it is likely they are unlikely able to have a rational discussion on the matter or worse.


I can still recall as a kid listening to the Cheech and Chong segment about Dog S#$%.
"Look Like It?"
"Yah"
"Feel like it?"
"Yah"
"Smell like it?"
"Yah"
"Taste like it?"
"Yah"
"Yep, that's Dog S#$% all right. Let's go eat."


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I wonder how long America being stupid will last?

What happens after that?


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> I wonder how long America being stupid will last?
> 
> What happens after that?


Uexit.


----------



## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

kinderfeld said:


> A waste of time, IMHO. I also see it for what it is politically. Just another way to divide the American population.


Just more re-writing history to fit today's political model.

Example:
---------------------
*Students could be told how Sir Isaac Newton 'benefited from colonialism' in curriculum overhaul being considered at Sheffield University*

* The father of gravity is among a group of scientists cited in university proposals *
* Paul Dirac, Pierre-Simon Laplace, and Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz are also named*
* Leaked document revealed plans for a more 'inclusive curriculum' at university*
* Newton purchased shares in the South Sea Company, which traded in slaves*
--------------------

Sheffield University considers curriculum overhaul on colonialism


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Uexit.


I ain't going anywhere


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> I ain't going anywhere


Well, check with the Brits, but I’m pretty sure “...exit” involves you taking your dirt with you.

It’s kind of a misnomer, I guess.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Well, check with the Brits, but I’m pretty sure “...exit” involves you taking your dirt with you.
> 
> It’s kind of a misnomer, I guess.


I think my dirt will take me, and I am always ready to go


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The more I watch and read the more I need to research what others believe about Critical race theory.

I will state that I find nothing wrong with the theory itself and how it might be used to look at a subject as a lens to gather more information on social life. What I am concerned with is how some want to use it in daily life to uplift or punish groups or make wholesale abrupt changes in systems of education, law, and government.

I am still trying to find out just how it is being used in school curriculums but I am finding it difficult to wade through the rhetoric and find what the real facts are.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Has anyone posted this yet?



https://criticalrace.org/


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> I will state that I find nothing wrong with the theory itself


That is as close as many of us expected for you to say, "Maybe we went too far." or "We have to push through, we are making this happen." I'm not sure what you are saying. But I alreadyy knew what you stood for. 


painterswife said:


> find what the real facts are


Texts used at Harvard to teach CRT, or maybe you can take the class
*Textbook(s):*
Kimberlé Crenshaw, Neil Gotanda, Gary Peller and Kendall Thomas, eds., Critical Race Theory: Key Writings that Formed the Movement (New York: New Press, 1996) 





__





Critical Race Theory | Harvard Law School







hls.harvard.edu


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

painterswife said:


> The more I watch and read the more I need to research what others believe about Critical race theory.
> 
> I will state that I find nothing wrong with the theory itself and how it might be used to look at a subject as a lens to gather more information on social life. What I am concerned with is how some want to use it in daily life to uplift or punish groups or make wholesale abrupt changes in systems of education, law, and government.
> 
> I am still trying to find out just how it is being used in school curriculums but I am finding it difficult to wade through the rhetoric and find what the real facts are.


Exactly

I see what parents are saying about some lessons, but I don't see the worksheets.
I hear tales of young white elementary school kids being told something, but I can't find a teachers account of actually saying explicitly it's your fault or being told what to teach for that matter.
I don't see the materials that were being used at West Point.
I understand it can be used in mathematics, but I don't see the how or why.
I also see it's been criticized in one of my State School Districts a few years back, for a single lesson or one class, and that was before I ever heard the term Critically Race Theory.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

no really said:


> IMO it should only be offered in colleges as extracurricular courses. Not in k-12.


Younger minds are easier to warp


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

One perspective 

Here is an excerpt. "The Five Tenets of CRT There are five major components or tenets of CRT: (1) the notion that racism is ordinary and not aberrational; (2) the idea of an interest convergence; (3) the social construction of race; (4) the idea of storytelling and counter-storytelling; and (5) the notion that whites have actually been recipients of civil rights legislation."

The paper expounds on each area. It lost me at (1)


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

doozie said:


> I feel that way about school requiring a Phys Ed requirement to graduate. Time could have been better spent IMO.


I think Phys Ed is important, especially these days.
Kids today (not all of them, but a lot) are TV/Video game zombies.
When I was a kid, and when my kids were young, we didn't just sit around staring at a screen.
We ran and played, rode bikes, climbed trees, and an hour of Phys Ed in the middle of the school day did us no harm and I think kept us alert, kept our blood flowing.
They go to school and sit all day, come home and sit all night.
A friend has a 13 year old grandson who is constantly stuck to his phone/tablet/laptop/TV. (No P.E.)
He's a lethargic marshmallow who can't figure out why girls and money aren't finding him.
The world is changing I guess.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

I think what bothers me the most is that we could actually be teaching students something useful. CRT is propaganda. They can get that from MSM sources and social media. Why not have at least one place to learn something that will prepare them for the future? Why not learn about money? Right now they're told stay in school, get good grades, go to college, and the money will be there when you graduate. BS! That's why we have young college graduates in massive debt with no prospects. What's that get us? A bunch of young people rioting and defecating on police cars. Rather than creating another crisis not to be wasted, why not prepare these kids to compete on the world stage?

ETA: Why not pretend that race doesn't matter rather than being hyperfocused on it?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

kinderfeld said:


> I think what bothers me the most is that we could actually be teaching students something useful. CRT is propaganda. They can get that from MSM sources and social media.


When grown adults claim they need to plow thru the muck of information before they can decide if it is beneficial, children in educational settings should not be allowed anywhere near it.
Minds not yet formed have no business being exposed to such trash, but when a system has evolved into teaching children what to think instead of how to think, this becomes the norm.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

GTX63 said:


> When grown adults claim they need to plow thru the muck of information before they can decide if it is beneficial, children in educational settings should not be allowed anywhere near it.
> Minds not yet formed have no business being exposed to such trash, but when a system has evolved into teaching children what to think instead of how to think, this becomes the norm.


And this is why, as Biden said, China is going to eat our lunch. Well, the scum that come up with crap like this are setting the table for them.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> When grown adults claim they need to plow thru the muck of information before they can decide if it is beneficial, children in educational settings should not be allowed anywhere near it.
> Minds not yet formed have no business being exposed to such trash, but when a system has evolved into teaching children what to think instead of how to think, this becomes the norm.


I am plowing through the material educating myself. I am looking at all the sides and opinions. That is how education is supposed to work. Have you already decided that being educated about the subject is the same as being told how to think?


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

painterswife said:


> I am plowing through the material educating myself. I am looking at all the sides and opinions. That is how education is supposed to work. Have you already decided that being educated about the subject is the same as being told how to think?


No, I think what he is saying is that since you are having so much problem with it our teachers will have the same issue. They, like you, may not know what to teach if they don't understand it either.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> I am plowing through the material educating myself. I am looking at all the sides and opinions. That is how education is supposed to work. Have you already decided that being educated about the subject is the same as being told how to think?


Forget about the material. It’s immaterial.

If you received a letter today that had been delayed in the post for 150 years, addressed to your great-grandmother from Karl Marx, and scrawled across the back of the envelope was _“Dear American Comrade, teach the contents of this letter to your school children right away!!”_

Would you:

A) Open and read it to see what it was about.
-or-
2) Toss it on your burn pile and make a mental note to stop by and piss on his murderous grave the next time you find yourself in England.


<Hint> if your answer is anything other than 2, your loyalty to Liberty is in question.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

painterswife said:


> I am plowing through the material educating myself. I am looking at all the sides and opinions. That is how education is supposed to work. Have you already decided that being educated about the subject is the same as being told how to think?


Should we teach a course in "slavery as a viable alternative in farming"? Please look at all sides and opinions before replying.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> No, I think what he is saying is that since you are having so much problem with it our teachers will have the same issue. They, like you, may not know what to teach if they don't understand it either.


I am not having a problem with it. I am doing my due diligence and not rushing to judgment on the actual theory itself. I agree that if it is put into practice as a "fact" and taught that way it can be a problem. I am still working on how it is used in a curriculum but I find more people complaining about it than providing actuaries in that area.

I will illustrate what I mean with this example. Creationism and Evolution are both two points of view. They can be taught as facts or they can be taught as theories. Taught that way gives the one being educated the make their own decision on which is "true" or even if they are both "true" or fact in your opinion.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

painterswife said:


> I am not having a problem with it. I am doing my due diligence and not rushing to judgment on the actual theory itself. I agree that if it is put into practice as a "fact" and taught that way it can be a problem. I am still working on how it is used in a curriculum but I find more people complaining about it than providing actuaries in that area.
> 
> I will illustrate what I mean with this example. Creationism and Evolution are both two points of view. They can be taught as facts or they can be taught as theories. Taught that way gives the one being educated the make their own decision on which is "true" or even if they are both "true".


I agree but we should be teaching our kids to think for themselves. I am a Christian with 3 kids. I taught them to think for themselves. I have 1 christian and 2 atheist kids. 

The idea on my mind is not too force anything on them but teach then to figure it out. We as parents and teachers should be more like our wilder ancestors. Teach all we know but be there to protect them while they figure it out. The little cub goes near the porcupine and the mother watches but pulls the quills out after.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> No, I think what he is saying is that since you are having so much problem with it our teachers will have the same issue. They, like you, may not know what to teach if they don't understand it either.


That is certainly one issue and like every educational opportunity, there will be those inclined to add their own little twist. 

As a child in elementary school, my teacher used the curriculum to present a hardcore PETA film on raising livestock and slaughter facilities, complete with all the gore they could gather. 

Thankfully, we discussed classroom activities at the table growing up and I presented what my teacher had presented as factual information into discussion and learned a more balanced perspective at that time. Decades later, that film still remains in fairly vivid. 

When we studied the various forms of government, the same teacher way more emphasis on communism and the incredible benefits while reminding us of the negatives of democracy.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

painterswife said:


> I am not having a problem with it. I am doing my due diligence and not rushing to judgment on the actual theory itself.


That is good that you seem interested in doing your homework on a topic that most seem to have figured out the tenants long ago.
And yet you have posted your viewpoints on recent high profile incidents involving ie the police, based on your opinion, even before all the facts were presented, before a trial.
Interesting. In those cases, deep research didn't seem necessary.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> I agree but we should be teaching our kids to think for themselves. I am a Christian with 3 kids. I taught them to think for themselves. I have 1 christian and 2 atheist kids.
> 
> The idea on my mind is not too force anything on them but teach then to figure it out. We as parents and teachers should be more like our wilder ancestors. Teach all we know but be there to protect them while they figure it out. The little cub goes near the porcupine and the mother watches but pulls the quills out after.


I agree.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> That is good that you seem interested in doing your homework on a topic that most seem to have figured out the tenants long ago.
> And yet you have posted your viewpoints on recent high profile incidents involving ie the police, based on your opinion, even before all the facts were presented, before a trial.
> Interesting. In those cases, deep research didn't seem necessary.


You keep attacking me and putting down where I am in the process of learning about this theory based on my opinions on other things. Do you think that helps?

Where I am in my process should not be a put-down.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> Exactly
> 
> I see what parents are saying about some lessons, but I don't see the worksheets.
> I hear tales of young white elementary school kids being told something, but I can't find a teachers account of actually saying explicitly it's your fault or being told what to teach for that matter.
> ...


Maybe it is a secret or your Googler is broke.

*Intro to CRT Syllabus*








Intro to CRT Syllabus Fall 2017


This graduate seminar will explore the foundations and central tenets of Critical Race Theory, from its origins in Critical Legal Studies, to current applications, debates, and evolutions, with particular attention to CRT’s intersections with the



www.academia.edu





*Syllabus*
*Introduction to Critical Race Theory
AMSTU 2220J
Fall 2017*
*Faculty: Adrienne Keene*
[email protected]
_“If I love you, I have to make you conscious of the things you don’t see.”
–James Baldwin_




__





Syllabus | Introduction to Critical Race Theory 2017






blogs.brown.edu





*A Beginner’s Curriculum on Critical Race Theory*

JUNE 23, 2020
HELEN PLUCKROSE AND JAMES LINDSAY









A Beginner's Curriculum on Critical Race Theory


There is currently a tremendous need to understand a previously obscure branch of academic thought called Critical Race Theory.




newdiscourses.com





*WASHINGTON, D.C. – *On Thursday, U.S. Congressman Mike Waltz (FL-6) sent a letter to Lt. General Darryl A. Williams, Superintendent of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, detailing examples of Corps of Cadets being mandated to attend seminars and presentations on critical race theory that included inflammatory lessons and presentations that are detrimental to the mission and morale of the U.S. Army. Congressman Waltz also requested the full presentation of seminars, presentations, assemblies, and other related curricula at West Point.




__





Waltz Requests Critical Race Theory Materials & Presentations from West Point







waltz.house.gov





West Point did not respond to multiple requests for information about whether this course balances its presentation of this racially charged material with “critical race theory” dissenters such as Shelby Steele, Thomas Sowell, or Walter Williams. So, is “White Fragility” part of a fair discussion featuring numerous competing views, or is it the flagship book of an indoctrination session for an insidious new leftist ideology? So far, West Point is mum on the issue, which doesn’t suggest the answer supports the nation its cadets are supposed to defend and which funds their careers.








U.S. Military Uses Racist 'White Privilege' Policies; This Bill Makes It Worse


To reinforce the principles that strengthen our military, the Trump administration should vigorously enforce prohibitions on critical race theory programs.




thefederalist.com





Or maybe you are playing dumb because all this looks so bad.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

painterswife said:


> You keep attacking me and putting down where I am in the process of learning about this theory based on my opinions on other things. Do you think that helps?
> 
> Where I am in my process should not be a put-down.


You seem to believe pointing out a tendency towards bias is an insult.
I tend to respect a person who is consistent, and honest, in their analytics, despite ideology.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

painterswife said:


> Creationism and Evolution are both two points of view. They can be taught as facts or they can be taught as theories.


They are two points of view, but one is backed by science and one is based on faith, which means it is belief in something without evidence. Looking to science for evidence of religion is silly. Looking to the pulpit for scientific evidence, equally so. And saying "they can be taught as facts or they can be taught as theories" simply means you don't understand what a theory is in science. Evolution, gravity, the idea that germs cause disease, are all theories. I don't think we should be taught an alternative to gravity in school either.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> You seem to believe pointing out a tendency towards bias is an insult


It took me many years, and careful consideration to prefect my biases


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> Maybe it a secret or your Googler is broke.
> Or maybe you are playing dumb because all this looks so bad.


I wonder why some folks cannot use the same exhausting methods when it comes to crime, trials involving white men, police shootings, riots pandemics and green energy.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Schools have no business teaching CRT when they consistently graduate students who can't make change or write a paragraph using correct grammar, punctuation and spelling.

Take the time to read a few news articles. The writers of many articles should never have passed 3rd grade English.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I keep wondering if someone has checked to see if the majority want to be a critical race, a theory or a social experiment and if so, what criteria needs to be met before we can offer the designation to another race.


----------



## Roy Gilbert (Apr 11, 2020)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> It is communism getting in on the race-game.
> 
> That’s not my opinion of what it is. It’s just a concise statement of fact.


communism???? ... some people are desperate to have a pejorative to throw are issues that can't seem to grasp


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Roy Gilbert said:


> issues that can't seem to grasp


Illuminate us typo man


----------



## Roy Gilbert (Apr 11, 2020)

snarky man ... it is quite apparent to me that anyone in denial of the existence of racism in America and subsequently tries to associate it with an economic system is grasping at straws


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Roy Gilbert said:


> snarky man ... it is quite apparent to me that anyone in denial of the existence of racism in America and subsequently tries to associate it with an economic system is grasping at straws


Quote one post here who says racism does not exist


----------



## Roy Gilbert (Apr 11, 2020)

excuse me for answering a question with a question ... by what stretch of logic could anyone associate racism or critical race theory with communism???


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

You have apparently not read the thread before popping in to demand answers.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Roy Gilbert said:


> excuse me for answering a question with a question ... by what stretch of logic could anyone associate racism or critical race theory with communism???


It creates a target, the straight white male, it creates envy, it aggregates the self aggrieved victims into a force to overtake the target. Government force is the equalizing power. The aggrieved needs the government to meet their needs because the straight white male is holding them down with their boot on their neck. 

Using race is so much smarter than the old Marxist ploy of Labor v Capital. No one wants to assail another in their quest for racial equality. Unfortunately CRT overplayed their hand. Some of us, not you, but some, see through it.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Lisa in WA said:


> You have apparently not read the thread before popping in to demand answers.


I considered providing links to the proleteriat and bourgoiserie in Marxism and see if some neuron fired, but I like your answer better.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Hiro said:


> I considered providing links to the proleteriat and bourgoiserie in Marxism and see if some neuron fired, but I like your answer better.


I know. She is so much smarter than me. I wasted all that time explaining it.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

HDRider said:


> I know. She is so much smarter than me. I wasted all that time explaining it.


No worries, I have a terrible spelling error in my response.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Hiro said:


> No worries, I have a terrible spelling error in my response.


It was still a quality answer


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Hiro said:


> I considered providing links to the proleteriat and bourgoiserie in Marxism and see if some neuron fired, but I like your answer better.


----------



## Roy Gilbert (Apr 11, 2020)

Communism is no longer a happening thing in America (nor has it ever been, in a substantive manner) ... no one is advocating for it ... under communism, the government would own all the factories, there would be no stock market ... so to associate a non existent entity with any race issues is again, an illogical act of desperation


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

IMO it is more an attempt to reinforce the oligarchy, bring about more power and control over the masses.






Oligarchy - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





*Oligarchy* (from Greek ὀλιγαρχία_ (oligarkhía)_; from ὀλίγος_ (olígos)_ 'few', and ἄρχω_ (arkho)_ 'to rule or to command')[1][2][3] is a form of power structure in which power rests with a small number of people. These people may or may not be distinguished by one or several characteristics, such as nobility, celebrity, wealth, education, corporate, religious, political, or military control.

Throughout history, oligarchies have often been tyrannical, relying on public obedience or oppression to exist. Aristotle pioneered the use of the term as meaning rule by the rich,[4] for which another term commonly used today is plutocracy. In the early 20th century Robert Michels developed the theory that democracies, like all large organizations, have a tendency to turn into oligarchies. In his "Iron law of oligarchy" he suggests that the necessary division of labor in large organizations leads to the establishment of a ruling class mostly concerned with protecting their own power.


----------



## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

Saw a debate with Jordan P. I thought he broke it down quite simply and I am simplifying it even more.

Basically Marxism is a belief in the oppressor vs the oppressed.
All bad things can be attributed to the oppressor. They can do no good. 
All good things can be attributed to the oppressed. Even if they did something "bad" well it was a way to get back to the oppressor.
In the end the belief is if the oppressed take over the job of the oppressor then we will have Utopia.

So, if you simplify CRT in the above definition. 
Anyone with white skin is preventing people who are a different skin color from...well basically happiness (money,education,job,house etc)
So, if only the white people were not in charge anymore or we only talk about what people of color have accomplished then all will be fixed.
If people have to burn a few places or kill some white people it is ok as they are just venting frustrations with the system etc.

I personally like MLK Jr.statement .... will one day live in a nation where they will *not* be judged by the *color of their skin* but by the content of *their* character.” 

You can not legislate racism out of a person. They have to choose not to be that way.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Roy Gilbert said:


> Communism is no longer a happening thing in America (nor has it ever been, in a substantive manner) ... no one is advocating for it ...


Marxism theory was the basis for communism. If we allow Marxism to gain a foothold, we open the door for communist practices. CRT is based on Marxism according to everything I have read about it.

Which answers your question.



Roy Gilbert said:


> excuse me for answering a question with a question ... by what stretch of logic could anyone associate racism or critical race theory with communism???


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Roy Gilbert said:


> Communism is no longer a happening thing in America (nor has it ever been, in a substantive manner) ... no one is advocating for it ... under communism, the government would own all the factories, there would be no stock market ... so to associate a non existent entity with any race issues is again, an illogical act of desperation


Stand by pilgrim.......


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Roy Gilbert said:


> Communism is no longer a happening thing in America (nor has it ever been, in a substantive manner) ... no one is advocating for it ... under communism, the government would own all the factories, there would be no stock market ... so to associate a non existent entity with any race issues is again, an illogical act of desperation


Can you explain Universal Basic Income?


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Roy Gilbert said:


> Communism is no longer a happening thing in America (nor has it ever been, in a substantive manner) ... no one is advocating for it ... under communism, the government would own all the factories, there would be no stock market ... so to associate a non existent entity with any race issues is again, an illogical act of desperation


Wow. Careful with all that density. You might pull the whole universe in on top of you.

The authors of the Black Lives Matter and Critical Race Theory philosophies acknowledge that they are Marxism, but it isn’t Marxism because Roy Gilbert says it’s not.

We just lived through a year where the government backed the mega-retailers, and closed down the small businesses. They closed the churches and kept the doors open at the state-run liquor stores. The US government is preparing to spend over 25% of our GDP.

But, Roy Gilbert doesn’t see communism here, so it must not be a thing.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

no really said:


> IMO it is more an attempt to reinforce the oligarchy, bring about more power and control over the masses.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In that sense, this generation of communism appears to be being more honest than its predecessors. In the past, Marxist movements claimed equal-for-all power-to-the-people, but, in every case delivered oligarchy and dictatorship.

It’s almost as if they’ve come to accept that that is the natural trajectory of any communist state, and are now just going straight for the expected outcome from the start.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> In that sense, this generation of communism appears to be being more honest than its predecessors. In the past, Marxist movements claimed equal-for-all power-to-the-people, but, in every case delivered oligarchy and dictatorship.
> 
> It’s almost as if they’ve come to accept that that is the natural trajectory of any communist state, and are now just going straight for the expected outcome from the start.


I am not sure if you intend a jest, but actually you are spot on

So much of this is coming out of Davos, and they are the present and future oligarchs 

You will own nothing, and be happy. Build back better.

*Have we fulfilled the promise of International Workers’ Day?*








Have we fulfilled the promise of International Workers’ Day?


International Workers’ Day, or ‘May Day,’ originated in the 19th century. Since then, conditions for workers in a number of countries have vastly improved.




www.weforum.org


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> It’s almost as if they’ve come to accept that that is the natural trajectory of any communist state, and are now just going straight for the expected outcome from the start.


People like to consider what the tipping point of an action is. Some would consider us already past that. However, it would appear to me that those pushing on the wheels and tugging the ropes to pull this horse inside the castle know that they have only a short while before the soldiers start falling thru the rotten wood in the belly. It might be two years, it might be in 2024, or, and most likely, never, but they have the moment and they are seizing it.


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## Roy Gilbert (Apr 11, 2020)

HDRider said:


> Can you explain Universal Basic Income?


Did that happen ... no


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

One can be proactive.
One can be reactive.
There is little regret in the former and hindsight with the latter.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Roy Gilbert said:


> Did that happen ... no


Some people see what is coming, and some wonder what it was as it passes them by


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Roy Gilbert said:


> Did that happen ... no


It’s happened for many. Depending upon gender and skin color.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Roy Gilbert said:


> communism???? ... some people are desperate to have a pejorative to throw are issues that can't seem to grasp


Do you have any thoughts you would like to add, or is your only contribution that all of us that are against teaching CRT in school are stupid and wrong?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

todd_xxxx said:


> Do you have any thoughts you would like to add, or is your only contribution that all of us that are against teaching CRT in school are stupid and wrong?


It takes courage and intelligence to see things as they really are.

It is easy to dismiss things that make you uncomfortable, or maybe your awareness is so low you really don't see it.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Critical race theory gets brought up in many discussions.
> 
> I would love to read what others here believe it is.


I means nothing to me. I don't worry about it, I don't think about it, I really do not care. Note: Another thing I don't do is loot, burn, and terrorize entire communities if they don't agree with me.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

HDRider said:


> Can you explain Universal Basic Income?


Theft


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

John Hamilton McWhorter V is an American linguist and associate professor of English and comparative literature at Columbia University, where he teaches linguistics, American studies, philosophy, and music history. He is the author of a number of books on language and on race relations, and his writing has appeared in many prominent magazines. His research specializes on how creole languages form, and how language grammars change as the result of sociohistorical phenomena. 









The Dehumanizing Condescension of 'White Fragility'


The popular book aims to combat racism but talks down to Black people.




www.theatlantic.com





I have learned that one of America’s favorite advice books of the moment is actually a racist tract. Despite the sincere intentions of its author, the book diminishes Black people in the name of dignifying us. This is unintentional, of course, like the racism DiAngelo sees in all whites. Still, the book is pernicious because of the authority that its author has been granted over the way innocent readers think. 

DiAngelo’s depiction of white psychology shape-shifts according to what her dogma requires. On the one hand, she argues in Chapter 1 that white people do not see themselves in racial terms; therefore, they must be taught by experts like her of their whiteness. But for individuals who harbor so little sense of themselves as a group, the white people whom DiAngelo describes are oddly tribalist when it suits her narrative. “White solidarity,” she writes in Chapter 4, “requires both silence about anything that exposes the advantages of the white population and tacit agreement to remain racially united in the protection of white supremacy.” But if these people don’t even know whiteness is a category, just what are they now suddenly defending? 

_White Fragility_ is, in the end, a book about how to make certain educated white readers feel better about themselves. DiAngelo’s outlook rests upon a depiction of Black people as endlessly delicate poster children within this self-gratifying fantasy about how white America needs to think—or, better, stop thinking. Her answer to white fragility, in other words, entails an elaborate and pitilessly dehumanizing condescension toward Black people. The sad truth is that anyone falling under the sway of this blinkered, self-satisfied, punitive stunt of a primer has been taught, by a well-intentioned but tragically misguided pastor, how to be racist in a whole new way.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

“*Refer to a “bad neighborhood,” and you’re using code for Black; call it a “Black neighborhood,” and you’re a racist; by DiAngelo’s logic, you are not to describe such neighborhoods at all, even in your own head.”*

Very good article.
I have a recent anecdote it reminded me of.
A close friend was on a social media group that is specifically for her new occupation. She asked if anyone had advice in dealing with a “scary” client.
She was immediately jumped on and called a racist.
Because, as her accusers said,”scary” was obviously code for black man.
When she told them that her scary client was not in fact a black man, but a white woman and that it was her behavior that was scary, and not her appearance, they still couldn’t let it go. They went to an all black website and pasted her post there Looking for affirmation that she was indeed racist. At that point they were banned from the group.
Its a crazy, crazy world. And by crazy, I don’t mean black.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

A bad neighborhood is just a bad neighborhood. Have any of these people been to a mostly white slum?

I met a young boy who just got his license that hit my truck a few years ago. He told me he lived with his grandma because where his parents lived they had tar paper shacks and stayed on drugs all the time.

It was a white neighborhood.

It was a bad neighborhood because I didn't believe it could be that bad. I was in the area a year later and had to see for myself. It was a very bad neighborhood.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> A bad neighborhood is just a bad neighborhood. Have any of these people been to a mostly white slum?
> 
> I met a young boy who just got his license that hit my truck a few years ago. He told me he lived with his grandma because where his parents lived they had tar paper shacks and stayed on drugs all the time.
> 
> ...


We are all products of our "normal"

I was in one of Scotland's largest cities, I can't even remember which one. Anyway, downtown were all these prostitutes, lots of streetwalkers. They were all white. I found it so striking compared to my "normal".


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> We are all products of our "normal"
> 
> I was in one of Scotland's largest cities, I can't even remember which one. Anyway, downtown were all these prostitutes, lots of streetwalkers. They were all white. I found it so striking compared to my "normal".


Yes and go to some parts of South America and you will find bad neighborhoods too.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> Yes and go to some parts of South America and you will find bad neighborhoods too.


The slums of San Paulo are famous. We actually hired body guards for our people that traveled in SA and some parts of Mexico.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Driving thru LA, you'll find most underpasses are littered with mobs of the homeless.
Walking thru LA, you can turn a corner, look down the street and know instantly you do not want to go that way. Would either be considered a bad neighborhood? Yes.
Because the walkers all have a certain color of skin? No.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> *...* And by crazy, I don’t mean black.


Strong close, Lisa. 
I like that.


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

Meanwhile, Walgreens is closing a bunch of stores in San Francisco since they changed the laws to make shoplifting a misdemeanor and defunded the cops. Seems more product is stolen than bought. They don't say anything about race, but the pictures .......


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