# choosing a caliber for new rifle



## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Been thinking about a new rifle but can not decide on going with the 6.5 Creemoor or .260 Remington. A lot of people here have opinions I respect and their knowledge far exceeds mine so any feedback would greatly be appreciated.
Like to say it would be for hunting but realty says it will spend it's life punching holes in paper.
I've shot my nephews 6.5 Creedmoor (Weatherby Vanguard II) and was very impressed. Using Federal target ammo I got a groups in the .25"-.30" range. but I've also been hearing many good things about the .260 Remington even though it seems to be a forgotten caliber considering the Creedmoor rage. I enjoy coming up with my own loads so would not be using very much if any commericial ammunition after I get it broken in.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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## ridgerunner1965 (Apr 13, 2013)

either one is a fine choice. I would prob choose the creedmore simply because id imagine the brass will be more widely available in the future.

I think the 260 just didn't offer enough advantage over calibers that were already popular. the 243 and 270 come to mind.

the 260 and the creedmore themselves are just the 6.5x55 with new names. the 6.5x55 is well over a 100 yrs old so as they there is nothing new under the sun.

the main advantage of the 2 modern rounds is that no one is going to load up a hot load and shove it in a 100 yr old rifle of questionable condition.

the creedmore prob will also have a better resale due to its present popularity.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

If you're target or varmint shooting, a .22 would be best, because of the price of bullets. As I got older, I put a really nice scope on my cheap .22 and shoot squirrels and rabbits in the head. I've got it zeroed in at 200 ft, and know the adjustment to make for every 25 ft target distance. And when a neighbor goes to the city, I'll get her to pick me up a brick or 2, if I'm low.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

i hate to discourage anyone from buying any new gun but you have the 243 and the 7mm-08 while a 6.5 creedmore would be a nice gun but unless you shoot beyond 400 yards regularity or want to play in precision rifle game I don't see much point.

the 6.5 creed is really a cartridge developed for 600+ yard competition. it just happens to also work fine on game. 

it borrows from what makes 6mm Bench Rest so repeatable and the wind bucking potential of the 6.5x55 sets it up so that a max load is case fill even slightly compressed fits it into a true short action to feed from a magazine even with looooong bullets that have very high Ballistic Coefficient yet keeps the recoil to manageable where it doesn't wear you out on extend course of fire. and won't fit in any 100 year old chambers.

one thing is the performance of 6.5 creed comes at a cost , that is barrel life 2,300-3,300 is where competitors are seeing the effects of throat erosion.

I find chasing new calibers and new guns a bit of a distraction from working on me , the shooter , when I get to the point I know it is the rifle or caliber holding me back it will be time for a change but I am not there just yet.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I know there is a lot of overlap the 6.5mm has with a .243 and 7mm-08. It's just a boy toy.
Everyone needs a hobby.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

I bought my son a .260; REM Mod 7 with a 2x8 Luepold VX3 on it.

Basically it will do everything my .270 will do in a shorter lighter package. I wouldn't worry about brass as it's easily formed from .243 by just running into a 260 FL die. His normal whitetail load is a Nosler 100BT loaded to be slightly faster than a .243 100 grain due to the increased expansion ratio. I went with the .260 because of the bullet weight range over the .243 when it comes to big game.

A friend of mine has a 6.5C which I reload for.

Both are comparable, for a hunting caliber I'd give the edge to the .260 as it's capable of more velocity. For a target gun I'd go with the 6.5C because it's capable of handling the long ELD bullets and still fitting in a standard length action/magazine. Both really need the right twist rate depending on your purpose. 

3 of us routinely shoot steel together, me with my now 6mm SLR, and friends with the 6.5C and a .308. The 6.5C with 140s does better in the wind than the .308 running 175s. To get a higher BC the .308 needs to get up to a 200 grain which is why he 6.5C is so popular for the steel games.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

I would not use my expensive range toy for hunting...….


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Being I have read you reload I would go with the 260 Remington. Shortage of brass is some thing people whop don't know the 243, 260, 7mm08, 308, and other family. You can neck any of them up or down to get the 6.5 mm bullets to work. OH YA youmay have to shorten the necks on some but being a reloader you do that already when the necks streach on any cartridge that ypou shoot.

Yes you can use a 22 to shoot paper but not for deer hunting. 
Also why not use your rifle you take to shoot paper to hunt with. unless your really uncoarnated not so likely you can hurt it to be unusable.

 Al


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Since I shoot on a budget all my rifle a very inexpensive, I just try to get everything out of them that I can.
My ,243 and 7mm-08 are both Marlin X7's. We are talking a basic $300 rifle.
I free floated the barrel, reinforced the stock with some threaded stock and JB weld, replaced the crappy plastic trigger guard and took the triggers to just a hair under 3lbs. The 7mm-08 shoots sub MOA and I am still fine tuning the loads. The .243 will put two bullets through the same hole and they will hit absolute dead center on a 3/4" dot at 100 yds. Kind of blows peoples minds at my club. Especially when they are shooting something that cost 5x or much more with worst results. If it just not produce I know it's me because the gun is incredible. I have three loads that are dead nuts perfect but it took roughly 700-800 carefully measured rounds to get there. I make ammo like someone building a ship in a bottle. Like I said everyone needs a hobby.
This is all in the planning stage so it will probably be a years or two before I buy anything. I choose those two for their fantastic accuracy, down range performance, bullet selection,light recoil, and economy.


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## weaselfire (Feb 7, 2018)

If you go with the 6.5 Creedmore, do yourself a favor and get a top quality rifle. It will show. The .260 is just a brother from a different mother, but not as many top end rifles for it.

Jeff


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## crehberg (Mar 16, 2008)

JJ, I think both are very viable options. If it's in the future...why not just save up and get both? Money comes and goes...but the one who dies with the most "toys" wins!


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

6.5 Creedmore is just the current hot "fad" chambering, much like the short mags and the ultra mags just a few years ago. You don't see or read near as much about them anymore. 

It won't do anything you can't do with one of the good old tried and true traditional chamberings such as; .243, .270, etc., plus the common chamberings will be much easier and cheaper to acquire ammunition and ammunition building materials for. 

If it were me, I'd focus in on finding a high quality rifle first, then work with whatever caliber you happen to find it in, leaving yourself ample $$ in the budget for good optics.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

my opinion is that 6.5 creed is way past fad. it has been around since 2008 it is 2018 and it is full steam ahead and 
that it is the modern 6.5x55 in a package that fits short action rifles and magazines.

precision rifle is the driving force behind a lot right now.

remember 223 and 243 WSSM were introduced in 2004 and dead by 2014 with only seasonal runs of ammo, my neighbor loves her 243 Wssm but can hardly feed it now her dad bought into the craze early.

6.5 is being chambered in a lot of rifles in the last 4 years. people shooting it like to brag on it for good reason.

none of these advancements for precision rifle are needed for deer hunting but shooters like them all the same also getting out and really learning your rifle makes you a better shooter for hunting. 

in hunting or even bench shooting you could be doing things that are bad form, poor technique and get lucky 60% of the time making you think your doing it all right.

JJ Grandits, is not going to go drop big money on a rifle he enjoys doing the work and finding the load then making the guys at the range who dropped big money mad that they can't shoot along side his cheap "junk " rifle with their big money rigs.

in that he is going to be looking productions guns , he will find a lot more 6.5 creedmore than 260 guns available.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> people shooting it like to brag on it for good reason.


They bought one.
They feel compelled to brag about it.
Fads in firearms tend to last a long time.

Reality is the 6.5's really aren't that much better than lots of other calibers.
It's just the one currently being hyped the most.

The "precision rifle/long range hunting" thing is also a fad now that "there's an app for that".
The firearms companies need these fads to sell new rifles and ammo, so much of it is marketing more so than real ballistic superiority.

The biggest reason for the accuracy gains is the advances in bullet manufacturing technology and better precision machining of the rifles.

Caliber and cartridge don't make that much difference.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Just did a shop used guns at the local gun shops. there were 2 Remingtons in 260. One a model 7 SS tupper ware stock with BRAKE even.

The other was a 700 mountian rifle with rail and rings.

I seen no creeds.

I recommended years ago a 260 to a friend years ago. He went out and bought a Model 7 SS. 
Today he rarely will shoot it. Not being a reloader he found the Ammo really pricy for it.
I think that is what has killed off thr 260 ammo prices if you don't reload.



 Al


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

Every Generation has it's fad all high powered rifles kill deer any failure is user error. The important issue is can you find ammo. The great ammo shortage proved the only ammo was ubiquitous was 9MM .223 / 5.56 and .308 / 7.62x51 and 12ga If your going to buy an oddball buy plenty of ammo as a rifle without ammo is a boat paddle.

308 Winchester, brass is reasonable bullet weight 125 to 200 grain (actually more choices) and enough load data and information to wear yourself out with and if your off most every shop I have been in has it. a keg of powder goes a long way. If the world goes flat, lots of cast bullet data, using pistol powder drops deer just like jacketed maybe better. there is sabot .223 and sub sonic loads, loads with .30 lead shot for taking small game and not waking the neighbors.

Savage is a fine rifle. and price is good I have shot quite a few of them. I do not own one as I have had mine stuff a long time. The scope, base and rings (steel) is where you want to invest your money I would go with Burris in a 3X9 with the forever warranty use stainless hex screws for your bases and blue loctite and your good to go till you take that ride in the wood box.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

alleyyooper said:


> Just did a shop used guns at the local gun shops. there were 2 Remingtons in 260. One a model 7 SS tupper ware stock with BRAKE even.
> 
> The other was a 700 mountian rifle with rail and rings.
> 
> ...



I completely agree there will be very few if any 6.5 creedmore on the used shelf

they are still very new the first production gun was chambered in 6.5 creed in 2008 it took a few years for the market to see the demand and switch over really just int he last 5 years manufactures have picked it up big as have ammo manufacturers.

most owners love the round , guys on hunting forums and shooting forums are raving about them daily so that some members who don't have one hate them just for being all that has been talked about lately.

but a search of buds Guns turns up 327 6.5 creed rifles for sale in many brands.

ruger , savage , remingtion , howa , weatherby , Winchester, browning , Mossberg , Mauser , Tikka , Sako, Bergara , Berretta, Sauer , Diamondback , PSA , CMMG, Rockriver arms , Sabatti , Christensen arms , Aero Precision , Windham weaponry , Black Rain , Double star, DPMS , Kimber, Nosler Springfield Armory , Stag arms , Thompson center , Steyr , S&W and more but I think that makes the point all the big names are in on this

JJ the Thomson center , rifles are definitely worth looking at they are a lot of good features in a budget friendly price range , I don't have one yet but have handled a few at the range and the guy who owned them is much like you he is really into his load development and then he takes it out to 880 yards he was showing me groups he shot with his 6.5 creed about an inch at 400 yards from the bench he had 6.5-20 glass on that rifle

the guy at my range with several of the Thompson did say he had a bad one in 30-06 and it just wouldn't shoot to the guaranteed MOA or better he sent it in to Thompson and they made good on it , he had looked at the barrel before it left with a bore scope said it was rough , he thinks the barrel they sent him back on the rifle had to have been hand lapped for as smooth as it was. and it shot very well under MOA.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They bought one.
> They feel compelled to brag about it.
> Fads in firearms tend to last a long time.
> 
> ...



all true , likely one of the biggest reasons is that because it is a new cartridge with very specific specs and very little cheap garbage ammo floating around in the beginning most of it is what would be considered match grade ammo or close to it.

but JJ is looking for a new cartridge to play with , he has rifles that will shoot , he doesn't need to get a new rifle for anything other than he wants a new round to develop to play with for his entertainment . 

6mm bench rest isn't "that" much better than say 243 but it has a few things that lend it to that specific shooting sport 
case size , small rifle primers / bench rest primers , these few things close that 1MOA group down by say 1/8 MOA per variable , so take a barrel that shoots , get a very consistent powder charge in a case with very little extra space over a more consistent primer in a case that has a tiny variation in weight under bullets sorted by weight to within 1/2 grain. when a 1/2 inch at 200 yards is the difference between winning a match and middle of the pack those not that much better things do make a difference.

this is basically the game JJ plays but by himself not competing against others only himself and choosing to do it with rifles that cost about what many peoples barrels alone cost.


millions and millions of deer fell to Remington core-locks one friend's son had never shot anything but , he broke down and purchased a box of Hornady precision hunter for his 270 that stung his wallet a bit he is 18 and just entered college he shot groups with both at 100 yards the corelocks in his rifle had always been about 2 1/2 to 3 inches the hornady was now shooting 1 1/4 inch groups thats 50% better people like better , would deer continued to fall for him at 100 yards with core-locks , sure but now he has the confidence to take a 200 yard shot and is practicing it , he hunts from an elevated blind with a rest on the bottom edge of the window. is some of that 1 1/4 inches still him probably a half inch of it . but people will take what they can get for improvement purchased his actual cost per deer is only going up by 50 cents , but some people like to see 50% improvement by changing the variables they can. others 3 rounds on a desert plate at 100 yards and they are good to go good enough.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

all my bolt rifles are free floated glass bedded in laminated stocks and all shoot 1 MOA or better.


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## weaselfire (Feb 7, 2018)

4tu said:


> all my bolt rifles are free floated glass bedded in laminated stocks and all shoot 1 MOA or better.


For hunting, minute of deer or hog works fine. 

Jeff


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

weaselfire said:


> For hunting, minute of deer or hog works fine.
> 
> Jeff


Some people sight in their rifle and if it hits a paper plate at 100 they think they are Daniel Boon.


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## weaselfire (Feb 7, 2018)

4tu said:


> Some people sight in their rifle and if it hits a paper plate at 100 they think they are Daniel Boon.


That's about the accuracy of his rifle. And perfectly acceptable for hunting large game.

Jeff


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

weaselfire said:


> That's about the accuracy of his rifle. And perfectly acceptable for hunting large game.
> 
> Jeff


these last few posts really don't seem to be advancing the discussion about reasons to choose a particular rifle caliber for the original posters needs or wants.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

when I set up a target it is a 3/4" dot at 100 yds. nothing thrills my heart more than firing two rounds and seeing one hole dead center. It doesn't happen often, maybe once or twice a year, but it does happen. I only shoot a cold barrel whenever possible. Guys laugh at me because I will pull my truck up and turn on the air so I can cool my gun down. It takes me a very, very long time to go through a box of ammo. The .243 has a 3x9 Nikon scope that is dead nuts at 100 yds. 200 yds is up three clicks. at either range where those crosshairs land is where that bullet goes. like I said, its a hobby, keeps me off the streets.

I'm still thinking about it but am sort of leaning towards the .260 Remington. I kind of like the .308 case. If I go with that then all I need would be a .308 and a .338 Federal and I'd have the full hand full. More than half the fun is selecting the bullet and putting the load together. I know some people who are happy with 1.5" groups, but to me that is complete failure. 3/4" is barely acceptable and nothing to brag about. It's OK at 200 yds. but not 100.
And it has to be done on a budget. The absolute max for rifle and scope is $1000 and preferably much less. The complete cost of the .243 was just under $500. It's a game. I'm Austrian, I was taught business by a Scotsman. This is a combination of the two.


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## Silvercreek Farmer (Oct 13, 2005)

JJ, do you cast? If not, I highly recommend it. It opens up the game like nothing else! You can recycle all your existing rifles with the quest of finding accurate cast loads.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Doing a ladder test on my nephews 6.5 creedmoor with 123gr. SST's coming out of a Weatherby Vanguard II.

Man, that thing is sweet. What a lovely trigger. Had a .5" load that looks promising. I'll tune that mother like a violin.

Again, I can't decide.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

You need to talk him into selling you that rifle.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

My son wanted to trade him a savage model 110 .300 win mag for it but he said no way.


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## markt1 (Dec 15, 2013)

If the possibility of future political ammo cutoffs concerns you, go with 308. It's a military cartridge (7.62x51m NATO) and will always be available to some degree because of that.


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

JJ Grandits said:


> Doing a ladder test on my nephews 6.5 creedmoor with 123gr. SST's coming out of a Weatherby Vanguard II.
> 
> Man, that thing is sweet. What a lovely trigger. Had a .5" load that looks promising. I'll tune that mother like a violin.
> 
> Again, I can't decide.


JJ Grandits,

I picked up a Weatherby Vanguard Series 2 in 30-06 with a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44 MC (Rapid-Z 800 reticle) sitting on top of it, used. It is sweet. I got both for the price of the scope used. Deals are out there. Good luck and good hunting


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