# Newbie here, need help feeding my NEW cow



## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

I just got this 10yr old cow. Iâm SOMEWHAT of a NEWBY in the DAIRY department. Iâd say she is right there with the 1or below on the dairy condition scale. http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/dairy/facts/00-109.htm#1
Many have said I should be concerned about Johnes, I didnât have her tested and didnât know about this disease until someone mentioned it to me. She has been grass fed all her life. I wormed her and have slowly been increasing her grain. She calved about 2 months ago, was in heat last week, and is giving about 5gal of milk per day now with all the feed. IMO she is VERY thin and I want to beef her up before winter and before breeding.

I have been feeding her approx:
12lbs alfalfa pellets per day
3.40lbs oats per day
8.32lbs corn per day
6lbs bean meal per day
1/2c kelp per day
1lb. Calf Mana
and 3oz. of dairy cow mineral mixed with 1/2c black strap molasses plus all the hay she will eat!

And ALSO, she has a teat with a cut on it and leaks. How should I properly treat this teat to make sure it does NOT get an infection? IF I should NOT put a calf on her?


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## Mare Owner (Feb 20, 2008)

I am curious to see the answers you get, as I am rather new to the dairy side of the cattle world myself. That is one skinny girl!

I wonder if it wouldn't be prudent to dry her off so her nutrients all go to body condition rather than milk?


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

I am also very curious to know what the experienced dairy'ers have to say. 

My knee-jerk reaction was to say dry her off, too, to try and let her gain condition before winter hits.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

You say you just recently picked this cow up in such a condition ?

How much milk was she giving immediately after you got her home ?


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

FR, she was giving about 3gal. but started picking up after full feed!

Yes, drying her off or milking her once a day would be the BEST thing. BUT, I though milking once a day may cause her to get mastitis. I REALLY don't want to dry her off, the reason I bought her was because I NEEDED her to be in milk till this spring.

If I should, I will. I have the chance to buy a VERY nice 3yr old cow due this month for $1000. She has short teats and I'll have to milk her by machine, but I'll do it if it's what is BEST for this cow.


Her is what my dairy nutritionist said: 
I wanted them to put a ration together taht will put weight on her so she can get to the weight that she needs to be to look good enough to breed back. I don't think i would think about breeding her until she gets weight on and looks like a jersey should. I think you would be wasting your money right now to try and breed her as I dont' think she would settle for you and if she did settle it would take more out of her to feed that growing calf and she might not get to the weight she needs to be at for calving. i don't want her to have any issues when calving or carrying the calf. I think having the cracked corn this high might be a little much, but it will get some weight gain on her. The ration is balanced for 25 pounds of milk and gain. I think if you would be willing to also feed her some beat pulp or roasted beans we can decrease on the cracked corn and feed a few pounds of either of those to help with conditioning of this cow. just let me know what you want to do with this. I think gettign her healthy and in the right condition has to be the first step so that she can thrive like she should be. With feeding this much cracked corn do a gradual increase of this amount over 2 weeks, so we don't get any acidosis issues. If you notice at any point that the backs of her feet are looking pink or reddish, then you need to let me know so another ration can be run to decrease the amount of cracked corn. This is something that will need to be watched with this ration for her. We need to get weight on her though and corn is one of the best ways to do it. 
If you would be willing to feed roasted beans and beet pulp we can decrease corn by quite a bit and feed roasted beans and beet pulp to make up for the lost in grain energy as these two feeds have a lot of great qualities for cows and goats too.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I would keep milking her and feeding her. Let her gain up some and breed her back.
By drying her off this early in the lactation and while she is still open, you risk worse mastitis issues and breeding troubles.

It sounds like your feed tech is working closely with you on this.
Since she comes from a grass-only operation you will want to watch her extra close while you transition to the richer feed.

Tell us about this cow.
She is 10 years old? So she has had many calves and these older ladies can tend to be bony and harder to keep weight on.
What kind of injury does she have on that teat? How long has it been there?

I bet she looks much better in a couple of months. 

I would love to see a full pic of her. What is her name?


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

Yes, she is 10 or so I think. By her teeth&#8230;&#8230;at least 7-8, I got her about 3 weeks ago. They didn&#8217;t have the papers ready, wanted my address so they could mail them. I haven&#8217;t gotten the papers yet. I can&#8217;t tell you for sure that she is only two months from calving. When I asked to see her calf, I was told it is somewhere out in the pasture. I asked if they would have to bottle feed the calf now but they said NO it was big enough to wean. I asked about weaning a 2mo. old calf with all those milk cows around, but, said it was big enough. When shown the calendar for the calf&#8217;s born on date, it only said DUE on such and such, never a BIRTH record. You don&#8217;t think she slipped the calf and that&#8217;s why it&#8217;s somewhere in the pasture do you? I NEVER thought of that! 
The teat has a large gash at the end of it, like a slit. The milk drips out the side. If she lets her milk down it squirts out the side. He said to use teat infusion tips to milk her with. So I do, the milk just pours right out then. J

I know old cows look bad, but the last cow I got didn&#8217;t look this bad and she went down that same winter. So, this isn&#8217;t my first skinny cow! 

I'll get ya a pic!


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

JDog1222, 

MY GOD! How much did the seller give you to take this cow and pour feed into her? 

You remind me of my mother, God Rest Her Soul. She was always wanting to take the crippled, stunted, hurt creatures and make them all better. 

You say she has a teat injury too?! I would have got back into my truck and LEFT. That cow must love you alot. If you can get her through this winter, I'd say you will have saved her life. I would be ashamed to own a cow in this condition. Be careful that your neighbors don't turn you in for cruelty to animals. 

The seller TOLD you she was bred? I call BS. I see no way a cow that poor could take. 

You are a good person, but you got TAKEN on this cow.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Judy in IN said:


> Be careful that your neighbors don't turn you in for cruelty to animals.
> .



That happened to me once. I rescued a starved horse. It was in the yard less than half a day before Animal Control showed up.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

gone-a-milkin said:


> That happened to me once. I rescued a starved horse. It was in the yard less than half a day before Animal Control showed up.


HA! Animal Control needs to make a visit to the other end of this cow's journey to help her former herdmates. I'd say she's not the only skinny/starving cow there.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

Don't worry, I've already told them all she is a RESCUE cow! I have to walk her through town to get her to the neighbors hay field to eat the fresh alfalfa. LOL


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

She was on a dry lot when I got her home cause everyone was worried about Johnes disease. I looked it up but the only sign she was showing was thin. Well, and dramatic weight loss from the picture I was sent of her. I think that must have been from winter. Jerseys usually look darker in the winter.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

I can take another pic if you want more fuller body pics. She LOVES her pic taken!


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Well, I hope your girl makes it. She looks pretty sweet. 

****! I've seen 17 yr old Jerseys that look better, though. 

She's a good cow, taking all that food and turning it back into milk. 

Are you sure she's not Jewish? Looks like a concentration camp victim to me...

Stay with it...I'm sure if anyone can save this girl, it will be you.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

I looked over what your feeding her and I'll be up front with you - I am pretty new to cattle and I have never had a dairy cow.

That said - does she have free feed choice to some good quality hay to be able to eat as much of that as she wants?

The rest sounds really great and my cows would look like walking pigs in short order if they also had free choice good quality hay or pasture.

Best of luck to you on this cow.


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

I'm with Judy in IN on *all* of her posts about this animal. I, too, would be surprised if she is bred; she looks too thin to cycle properly. And I would at least do the Johnes blood test. Because if she is positive, you will be wasting your money on a lot of feed that will make no difference to this animal. Poor sweet cow. I can't advise you about drying her off properly, but it seems a shame to milk her when she is that thin. You have a good heart. If she's not positive, I'd be asking the vet the best course to get her back in condition before any more demands are made of her, but that's just me.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I know how you feed your critters, JDog.....  
(spoil 'em rotten, I should say)
If you've already got that girl up 5 gallons from 3, I'm with GAM; keep milking and keep feeding. She's on the high road now.

I don't know if I believe that both the pics you showed were of the same cow (in post #23 in the other thread).
Something smells fishy.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

JDog1222, 

Was this the ONLY cow there in this condition?


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s the same cow. If you enlarge the image you can see the #19 on the tag in the picture of her in the barn. This looks like a picture of her during the winter. Jerseys are usually much darker in the winter. I really don&#8217;t think they would have switched her collar to another cow for the pic then put it back on her. Besides, you can hardly see the tag in the pic so I don&#8217;t think they were expecting an issue. OTHERWISE if you couldn&#8217;t see the 19 I would NEVER believe this was the same cow. 



Judy, I don't want to say for SURE, I'd say MAYBE one or two. The younger ones looked ok but were possibly on their way down hill. They were all standing in a line in the barn and it was dark. I was in a hurry and got in and got out. The alpacas are the ones I would worry about. All in dry lot, lots of them! The big horses were in with the cows too. I also have a pic where I think this cow was bit by the large horses. They look like teeth prints on her back anyway and she had an open cut on her front, not too bad though.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

For what it's worth, we were taught in horseshoeing school to use a dab of Preparation H&#8482; on animal wounds that rather refused to close. That stuff really works....


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Hmm, those bites were probably from the horses driving the cows away from what little food they were getting. 

Usually a bad idea to mix horses and cattle. The horses always win.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Well, How about it, Marc? I see that you are the seller in this situation.

Are you going to make things right and send this lady the registration papers on this cow? I'd say she spent plenty enough to deserve the papers.

I might be interested in one of these skinny cows....for $200, and NO teat injuries, AND the papers in my hand before I leave your little slice of heaven...


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

I'm confused. One post says the cow was from a grass fed dairy. Another post says she was in a dry lot with horses. Then there is the comment that the seller is a poster here, but it doesn't say that in any of the posts I can see. And the OP has consulted with a vet and a nutritionist but still came here looking for advice. I'm lost.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

The cow was with horses, I think. The cows and horses were together anyway from what I could see. This cow had marks on her back that looked like a horse bit her. I bought her and put her on a dry lot because she needed to be kept away from my cows because everyone said I needed to be concerned about Johnes disease, can't you see the dramatic weight loss between the pictures in the post under rant about newbies. The seller did not give me the papers when I picked her up. I think he wanted my address so he said can you give me your address and I'll mail her papers to you. That was three weeks ago. 

No I have not talked to my dairy vet yet, who is a personal friend. He will KILL me for bringing home another rescue cow. The last one I got went down and he told me I would not win the battle, but I DID. She was down for 3 weeks. YES dairy folks, THREE weeks. I rolled her from side to side to keep her from getting bed sores, washed her rear, and milked her with one leg up. We lifted her four times a day with the backhoe and FINALLY on CHRISTmas day last year she got up on her own! MY vet was AMAZED! I soaked alfalfa pellets and cubes all winter in our basement to feed her. Then I took her to the equine dentist to have her teeth fixed.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

Yes the cow came from a grass fed dairy. I think they are feeding hay now. He said very little grain because he ran out and had to buy feed. ORGANIC feed I think cause he is an organic dairy. I did read where he said he fed his cows 5lbs per day but when I asked him how much feed she was getting he said very little, only enough to get them to come in the barn.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

JDog1222 said:


> The cow was with horses, I think. The cows and horses were together anyway from what I could see. This cow had marks on her back that looked like a horse bit her. I bought her and put her on a dry lot because she needed to be kept away from my cows because everyone said I needed to be concerned about Johnes disease, can't you see the dramatic weight loss between the pictures in the post under rant about newbies. The seller did not give me the papers when I picked her up. I think he wanted my address so he said can you give me your address and I'll mail her papers to you. That was three weeks ago.
> 
> No I have not talked to my dairy vet yet, who is a personal friend. He will KILL me for bringing home another rescue cow. The last one I got went down and he told me I would not win the battle, but I DID. She was down for 3 weeks. YES dairy folks, THREE weeks. I rolled her from side to side to keep her from getting bed sores, washed her rear, and milked her with one leg up. We lifted her four times a day with the backhoe and FINALLY on CHRISTmas day last year she got up on her own! MY vet was AMAZED! I soaked alfalfa pellets and cubes all winter in our basement to feed her. Then I took her to the equine dentist to have her teeth fixed.


 I am amazed! That is ONE LUCKY COW to have found the one person who will go to heroic ends to help her survive!

You are the WO-MAN!


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

she sure has a sweet face. I wish you all the best!


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I need to talk with Jill about this, I took off what I had written, this is for us to work out and she should not have come on here before talking to me. > Marc


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

There was something mentioned about emails not being responded to ?


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

Some of the pics from the day I got her home.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Forerunner said:


> There was something mentioned about emails not being responded to ?


Tim , the only e-mail I had not gotten back to jill about was the registration papers, Jill has my personal e-mail and had been e-mailing me back and forth and I even e-mailed her several times myself to see how Pear was doing. I just find it interesting that now I have a problem about her, not a thing mentioned about this for a month. I can forward all the e-mails she sent me if you all would like to see, I don`t delet them. And the pictures of Pear on here are not the DAY she got her, more like the week or two after.


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## LibertyWool (Oct 23, 2008)

Because Marc said the pictures are not from the day Jill got the cow, I downloaded the pictures and looked at the meta data (the data the camera puts in about when the picture was taken) because I was curious. In the first post, the third picture was from Sept 15th, and the other two were from Sept 23rd. The post from today, the pictures show that they were taken on Sept 15th. 

Now I don't know what day she picked up the cow, and the date can be changed on a camera, and I don't know either party, and it is none of my business, but that is what I could see in the pictures.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Jill showed me the pics the day she got home with the cow;
both the before pic in the stanchion, and the fresh pic, from that day.

I have no interest in taking sides, but I am compelled to bear witness to what I have seen.

Jill's error in this matter, which does carry it's own consequences, is going ahead with the deal and bringing the cow home.
She should have dealt with any and all obvious issues before the cow loaded on the trailer.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

[FONT=&quot]No, FR, I did not error. I was sent by God to get the cow out of that situation and to test this mans honesty. He will answer to God for any of his wrong doing. I&#8217;m perfectly happy with my cow, I LOVE bringing them back to life and seeing them flourish. God knows I LOVE taking care of his creatures.He has given me a GIFT and I have always know I have had that gift! 
[/FONT]


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

This is an unfortunate situation, buyer and seller debating on here. But what remains to be seen is whether or not this cow has Johnes, which could be responsible for the dramatic weight loss. If positive, it will have some pretty unpleasant implications for the seller's herd, as well as the cow's short-term future. 

I hope the OP will get a blood sample to the lab as soon as possible. It's the right thing to do for this cow. My 2 cents.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

I&#8217;d bet my life on this cow NOT having Johnes. Now that I know that the picture was taken two winters ago I&#8217;m sure I don&#8217;t need to be concerned about a DRASTIC weight loss. Her stools are good, her milk has increased from 3 to 5+ gal. per day, and she is putting on weight. The vet has been called and he is my personal friend so he will come as soon as he gets the message. 

I would prefer to keep things public so the pros will catch the things I missing, let them be the judge.


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

The condition of that cow is pretty pitiful wherever it came from. I do believe you brought it home after seeing it and for that you should be commended. But I do think you and the party should work this out privately. Why would you really want to drag everyone into this private matter?


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

---- Marc, this bunch wants to skin you. BUT, BEFORE YOU DO TAKE TIME TO READ !!!!!!!! A few might not want to take the time to read my background so I will give you a simple shot of it. Born and raised on a dairy in southern wis. Full time farming and going to school since I was 16. I will be 39 in a few months. Seen alot over the years.
Now all you folks that are saying poor cow how can this animal be like this. First off find a dairy feed consultant. Period!! The recipe you listed does nothing to support the cow. Its only to make milk and thus the cow will get thinner. It was said the recipe was for 25 lbs a day. Now the cow is giving 5 gals aday. Yeap thats 43 lbs. So you are asking this cow to give this kind of milk with out a increase in feed intake? What do you think she is going to do? A good milking jersey is very seldomly seen on the homesteading boards. Why Because they get spoiled and are over conditioned.
Do you want that cow to fatten up and look good? Drop the beans. Increase the roughage(hay) a good grass/alalfa mix is the best. Then add in a fat. Cotton seed would be one. We have had good results with useing corn glutten pellets this summer. Has not incresed milk alot but the cows are square and slick. To many get hung up on useing beans all the time. 
Our feed right now consists of ground ear corn with a small amount of raw ground soybeans we raise with some oats also in the mill. Then we top dress with the corn gluten pellets. Check with your feed store. If they do not have it then check if they have dairy 38 or other pretein pellets for cattle. But you need to increase the fat intake along with teh hay to see any difference.


In all realality that cow is milking herself to death. Change your feed and do not stop milking her. Also I noticed she was poured in the one pic. And a cow 2 months out from calving that is not bred is not uncommon. Also sometimes cows just do not freashing milking thier full poteinal they slowlly increase. If you do not feed for the increase here is the out come.


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

Now to touch on a few other things not really related to Pear. First off nothing ever comes out good from these drag um in the mud posts. Secondly Jill you said Marc said they are only getting enough grain to get them in. When cows are on pasture, they sometimes will not all the grain that is put down for them. As a grazer also I know what that means and have also seen it first hand. Also I would not say this was a rescue cow by no means. Many arm chair farmers want to set back and critique every little thing they see. But, yet fail to understand the full dynamics of the full time small family farm. Jill before you came on here and pitched a fit you could have choosen your wording better. If you had a problem with that cow or the farm the night you bought her. You could have walked away. But, you come out with the god bomb. 
Enough said. WOuld I buy cow from Marc. Yes!! Why? I never heard any other complaints from any other buyers. And if you all thought Pear was thin. You should have been at the world dairy expo yesterday and seen the old cow that got champion. LOL Not much fatter then these pics. Just a bit more condition and a bulk tank between her legs. That cow must have been putting away 100 lbs of hay a day

Now here is a offer. If I offened you in any way or you just want to chat. PM me I will give you my cell number. I am sure I came across a bit rough but I for one have read what Marc has posted in the past and payed close attention too things. There is a good bit of knowledge there. Marc if you need to give a call
Later all
Bob


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## MARYDVM (Jun 7, 2004)

The OP mentioned in the other thread that this cow had a teat injury that extended into the teat canal that was "neglected" - had not been sewn up when it happened. I'd like to mention that the reason it was not sewn up is that surgical correction of a torn teat canal just about never works. The lining of the canal is a few cells thick, it is not humanly possible to get the membrane edges lined up and sealed. And to make things more challenging, the surrounding tissues are contaminated by the manure caked hoof that caused the injury. Every diary vet tries sewing up a teat canal at least once. I tried it three times (although the last 2 times only because the farmers begged me to try it). The result is always the same. The teat is sewed up, cannula in place to drain the milk. Everything looks great until about day 7 when the whole thing opens up again since the milk leaking around the teat canal sutures causes the whole suture line to dehisce. And by then you've also got mastitis in the quarter from leaving the cannula in. 

It is by no means neglectful to allow these types of injuries to heal as best they can without surgical intervention. The OP mentions planning to freshen the wound and then close it surgically. If she wants to go all out, it can certainly be tried. Hopefully her vet will make it clear that the odds of success are about 1000 to 1.

I suppose someone will post about a cow they knew that was operated on successfully. All I can say is in 16 years as a dairy vet, I never heard of a single one. And that includes cows operated on by Cornell's large animal surgeons.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

I have had Jerseys. Yes, they were on pasture and didn't look like that. I have also been on commercial farms that didn't have emaciated cows like that. 


I believe for the price she paid, and the problems she got with this cow, she should get the papers. It is only right.


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

Mary
Your spot on with this one. Our old vet one time suggested that if we wanted a teat sewed up was to take the cow to the UW vet school. The micro surgery would have cost close to $10,000 at that time. Your odds of 1000-1 was better then he said the school would give. 
Bob


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Well, I went to Hoard's Dairyman. I saw animals in good condition in the videos. I was NOT able to count every vertebrae in the backbone. I know that Jerseys will show a few rib bones--that's to be expected. What I do not expect to see is basically the whole skeletal structure of the cow. I don't expect to see the lumbar bones in an animal of this age.

Some people are unable to see condition on an animal. I accept that. I had a fellow unload an old horse at my place on the way to a parade once. This fellow had ridden for years, but could not see that this horse was near death. I was shocked at her appearance, and prevailed upon him to take one of my horses to the parade. I could smell the death smell from her system shutting down. She did die 3 days later, in comfort, and after a vet call. It was just old age. However, the owner could not see the condition of the animal.

Regardless, if I am selling a milk cow with a bad teat, I need to inform the potential buyer up front; not wait until they arrive and are in shock from the conditions at my farm. If I have a registered animal for sale, I need to have the papers handy, and not have to be hounded for them. 

I'm finished here.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

Madsaw, I am not offended, I will contact you, I need all the help I can get and do understand what you are saying thankyou. 

The rations were run back when she was still milking 3gal per day. Now they have been increased. The dairy nutritionist I am working with graduated from Texas A&M. I'm doing the best I can here. 

I was told the cow would give me about 3gal. per day. I was not told that would be ONLY if I milked the cow once a day like they do. BUT, he said the calf was a 2mo. old calf and so I figured she was at least getting 1-2 gal. per day. If the calf was on her would that constitute the second milking? 

I'm not here to bash anyone, I just want answers. I don't even really know when this cow calved. As I said, I asked to see the calf and was told it was somewhere in the pasture. 

I was not about to start a confrontation with this man. I was all alone, a woman. That is NOT a good idea IMO. The best thing for me to do at that point, I feel, was to get the cow and get out. She IS putting on weight and the cow is working just FINE for me. She only needs to get me by till this spring when my heifer has her calf.

Now, please inform me on how to dry up that teat so I can NOT have to worry about mastitis. I can't stop the milk from coming out when she lets her milk down, it leaks and leaks and leads...........more like squirts.


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## scholtefamily (Feb 25, 2010)

For what its worth, I did buy a cow from SpringValley. I was there in August to pick up my cow. She looked like a normal healthy jersey cow. I also saw all the other cows. I can assure you that Pear was not in this condition when I saw her in August. Nor were any other cows. His farm looked like many other family farms I've been on. More work to be done than there is help. I think most farmers with a small operation can attest to that. 

As far as the registration papers....I don't see anywhere that it says he is not going to send them. I doubt that was ever a thought he had. He just hasn't gotten to it yet and probably should have. Marc has always been fair and honest with any dealings I've had with him and I know I'm not the only other person on here that has purchased from him. 

It saddens me that Pear is in the shape she is in. Jill, it seems like you are doing a good job getting her back to where she needs to be. As far as drying off the one teat. We normally just stop milking that teat and it drys off on its own. With her being only 2 months after calving maybe you could milk that teat every other milking and drop down from there. I'm sure someone will weigh in on that............I don't know much, I'm just a "hobby farmer"


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## allenslabs (Feb 6, 2005)

I bought my jersey girl in July and she was in great condition I thought. Ya know, I couldn't get a good picture of her to save my life! She looked like nothing but ribs and bones as that is all that showed up in the picture! Drove me nuts! And, the guy said he would mail the papers when he had time as he had to send them in for the first time anyway...that was July. I called him last week with another question and he said he got busy and hadn't sent the papers in yet (I didn't ask, he told me when I asked him opinion on a bull I was thinking of using on her) but he is the only one working the farm and so I understood. Maybe Marc just didn't have time. Not sticking up for anyone as I haven't been to his farm or know either person but, sometimes, pictures suck, sometimes people get busy.....but, she is happy with the cow. That's what counts. Good luck with the teat though, sounds like there is a solution, just a pain to get there.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

YEP, I'm happy with the cow, she is putting on weight and I'm having her tested for Johnes just to make everyone happy. I'll take pics of the teat CLOSE UP to see what the pros think. ALL I want is for the milk NOT to spray ALL over when I milk it. I know using the teat infusion thing will only make that teat WORSE, I don't want that. But if she won't breed back because of condition or whatever reason, I don't know that I should fix it. I only need this cow to give me milk till spring around May till my heifer calves. SO, here I am $600 in the cow, $50 on fuel, feed, she's not bred (wondering if she will since she's been with the bull since she calved) and she IS 10. Where do I stop putting more into this cow. I was just going to feed her and cull her when I get my heifer fresh. Some say fix the teat, others say no. I'm at a loss.....

Madsaw, are you saying that all the grain is displacing the better food stuff like grass and hay? That's what she was on. The seller himself admitted that the cow was thin. WELL, those pics WERE taken the day I got her home. If he was already feeding what you are recommending, the GOOD stuff, grass and hay. How did she get to this point and how do I get her out of it? I'm starting to wonder if I now need to take her to have her teeth floated at the Equine dentist. They don't charge that much and it does WONDERS for the animals. Proly cost $200 total, gas and all.


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

In the risk of being bashed around and have my reputation trashed as Marc's has, I'm going to weigh in here. Let me state that I am the one responsible for sending out the registration papers. The way this is "normally" done is Marc and I are to sign the papers and fill in the new buyers information, a check gets attached (from us) and sent in to the registry. They then send the new registration to the new buyers. We asked Jill for her address at the time she came. We asked her again in emails. Now she says she sent it to us on the 15th. I went through all of our emails and told her we never received it. Now she refuses to send it to us, but will send it to ANYONE else that PM's her? I call that odd, but somehow she is convinced that we would do her harm or something I guess as she's accused us of that however slightly veiled. Anyway, the compromise was to send the paper, signed by us but not fully filled out obviously, to a neutral party. We made a special trip into town to put it in the post box last night.

Jill has trashed our reputation every way to Sunday here in public, yet all her emails to us previously were friendly. We wish she would have said something as we would have made this right. We have NEVER strong-armed a sale. Buyers can take all the time they want to make up their mind. We've even allowed one buyer to hand milk the cows she was interested in to see which one milked easier! Jill was welcome to check Pear out. Feel her, touch her, whatever. But Jill has now played the "God" card and the "I'm just a woman" card. Sigh... whatever.

We did not force her or strong arm her into buying the cow. That's not our way. We want our cows and heifers and other animals to go to good homes and would rather someone turn them down if they don't think the animal will meet their needs. Jill wanted a cheap cow in milk to get her through to the spring. Pear met those needs. She's an older cow that has birthed easily every year. We told her she was "running with the bull". We did not say she was bred. She IS a 4 quarter cow as you can milk out that quarter! She just has a HEALED wound on the one quarter. Pear was a nurse cow this year as she just loves calves and will allow ANY calf to nurse her. Obviously the calf wasn't having issues with any of the 4 quarters. The 3 gallons per milking that Jill mentioned was what we were getting at the END of her last lactation. Pear milked 5-6 gallons when first freshened, but we didn't want Jill to think that she'd milk this much for the full year as cows do lessen their milk towards the end. Pear is friendly, halter trained, good manners, and a Registered Jersey. 

Jill has stated that our pastures aren't adequate? You can't see our pastures from the buildings as they are on the other side of a tree line. She didn't mention that we have a round bale feeder which we keep full with fresh hay. Our cows free feed as much as they want. We feed them a scoop of corn in their feed bunks as they are getting milked. This is how we slip them their vitamins and minerals and any other suppliments each cow may need. Each cow has their preferred stancion, so it is easy to change their feed rations at the feed bunk. During the winter, their feed is changed to account for the lack of pasture and any nutritional needs they may need. We do NOT starve our cows.

Jill said the horses bit the cow yet I don't see any bite mark from the pictures she showed. Yes, there are two horses running with the cows. They keep pretty much to themselves. We have never seen any bad behaviors or any wounds on any of our cows. They are checked daily during milking.

As for Pear, keep in mind that this cow is 11 years old, freshened 2 months prior, was just taken away from her calf, hauled 2.5 hours away and put in DRY LOT after being on pasture. Her feed was changed. She was taken away from all her friends and was probably feeling alone in solitary confinement. Everything in her life changed, so I would expect that she would have a weight drop. Yes, the calf is alive and well, otherwise Pear wouldn't have bellered so much at her missing calf! Common sense, but if you want pictures, I'd be happy to post them.

Jill even put a burr out there about the alpacas as she alluded to our alpacas being dry lotted. The alpacas can be seen from the drive and by the road. They are in a 2-3 acre pasture. The pasture was grazed (and a bit dry as many are) but we also suppliment them with hay (like we do our cows), huge round bale feeder we keep full. You can't tell the condition of the alpacas without putting your hands on them. JDog did NOT put hands on. During the winter when they need the extra nutrition, they get llama/alpaca pellets.

Jill did not go any farther than the barn. She saw a few cows that were keeping Pear company. She did not see the balance of the cows and heifers and youngsters as they were out to pasture, yet she gets everyone thinking that we have emaciated animals and should be turned in?... Did I mention that the pasture is on the other side of a tree line and behind other buildings? 

We've sold many animals over the years. No complaints until this very public lambasting. We even sold a bred heifer to a VET from Iowa. They were very pleased with their purchase. I guess what I'm getting at is very simple. Jill has very publicly painted us in a bad light instead of speaking to us privately. She saw a few of our cows in the barn. She did not see our pastures. She did not put hands on any alpaca yet bashed us for their care as well. Others are now judging us on what one person has said.

If any of you wish. I'd be happy to post pictures. Panoramic pictures. We welcome you out to make your OWN decisions... in person.... and not base your opinion on hearsay.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

JDogg1222 listen to Madsaw and MARYDVM if you want expert advice. As far as your cow being bred it sounds like she came in heat at around 60 days after calving which is about right very few cows will breed back before that time.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

Please forward me the email you sent asking for my address.


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## MARYDVM (Jun 7, 2004)

Most cows never need dental work anytime in their lives. Their mouths are not the same as horses. If she's chewing feed easily, and passing normal manure, I wouldn't bother with an equine dentist.

There is a common phrase in dairy cows - "milking off their back". A good producer that freshens underweight can lose a whole lot of weight during peak production. An old cow is also harder to keep condition on. Since your cow is eating, and gaining weight, it's likely she'll do just fine as a family cow, with more attention than she could get in a herd situation. Not being bred after being 2 months fresh is not a bad thing. Maybe you should plan on breeding her at 4 months fresh, when she'd had a chance to get up to a better body weight. You could even wait a lot longer. I have a friend that breeds her cow every 2 years, and that cow keeps producing 1 to 2 gallons a day all through that long lactation.

The way most dairymen handle a teat injury like your cow has is to leave that teat cup off and let the milk just drain out on the floor while milking the other 3 quarters. If you're milking by hand, and the milk is spraying all over, you might need some work done on the teat. There are 2 options available. 

One is cutting off the entire end of the teat below the injury to open the teat canal for drainage. The milk just pours out on letdown, and surprisingly, if kept on clean bedding, cows rarely get mastitis since the milk letdown flushes the bacteria out of the teat canal.

The other treatment is easiest when done near drying off, or when production is low. The cow is sedated and laid down. The whole teat is cut off next to the udder and the quarter sewed shut after being infused with antibiotics. No drainage to worry about when milking, and the quarter eventually dries up and shrinks down. Your vet can advise you on what's best for your cow.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

*He misrepresented this cow to me plain and simple* 
This is probably what I am more upset about, but, a LOT can go south during drought conditions.

LOL.... I don't know how to attach a photo here. Do you have regular email I can send it to?
Her name is Pear and I have a picture of her in the stantion in the barn. It's a little dark, but you can get the idea. You do realize that this price is for the cow only. (grin)











Hey Jill; This is my ten year old cow, I just want to get rid of one more cow. She will give around three gallons of milk a day. She may be bred, she is with the bull, she had a heifer calf about two months ago. She can be hand milked, she has big handles. And she will raise any and all calves she can get, she tries to steal all the calves away from the cows when they have calves. She is a sweet old girl, but she isn`t dead. I would take 600.00 for her if you get her soon. She has never had trouble having a calf, and is a great mom. Let me know what you think, I will try and get a pic today. > Thanks Marc


OK, I think I can make AM work. I'm proly about 2hrs. from you. Is 7:30am too early? 
She looks GREAT. Do you think her teeth will get her through another winter of grinding hay? How old do cows live anyway?
Do you think she will load into a two horse trailer? Also, you wouldn't happen to a cull bottle bull calf for sale would you, jersey?
OK, let me know. I know, I'll bring cash! :O)
Thank you, thank you, Thank you!
Jill

He said,
Jill ; you don`t have to come that early. I think she would fit in a two horse , as long as it doesn`t have a divider in it. They can stand kitty corner in the trailer. She is in very good shape, and yes she will make it through the winter. There is nothing wrong health wise with her, she does very well. No I have no calves, I feed them all out. You can just milk her for now, till you find a calf. Call in the morning if you need to, I will check this again in the morning. > Thanks Marc


Thanks
jill


PS the pictures ARE from the day I got the cow home. I'm not making ANYTHING up.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

I got to be gone the rest of the day. I think this teat is not that bad off and can be fixed so I can hand milk w/out it spraying back at me.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

The teat canal is open and functioning. I think if I just tell the vet to stitch it up and put a drain in it till it heals, keep it clean, she'll be a good as new.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

Also lead this newbie to believe she was proly bred by now. 
"Knowing her, she'll give you a heifer in about 9 months!! LOL... Picture sent. Let us know what your plans are to pick her up. Oh, cash is good. (grin)"


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

I'm done here!!! MARYDVM and Madsaw you can PM me to help with my cow.


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## mozarkian (Dec 11, 2009)

Springvalley has been and hopefully will continue to be a wise and knowledgeable participant on this board. I for one, do not want to lose him on here. 

Jdog, I wish you the best with your cow but as a fellow female farmer, you hurt my dignity when you played the helpless female card. Farmers, of any sex, rarely have time, or energy to plot and plan to rape and pillage. If you are afraid in the company of fellow farmers, this may not be what you are meant to do.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

I was rather disappointed at the helpless woman card as well. I'm a female farmer and it's a long road to gain respect and to be taken seriously and this is one of the reasons why. If you can't handle yourself don't put yourself in these positions and drag us all down. 

Marc and Jo, if you really meant that about the invitation to stop by, DH and I are going to be taking a road trip across the midwest here in a bit. Where abouts are you in IL? If it's close to our path I'd love to stop by and see your dairy. All the dairies here are Holsteins and rather large, I'd love to see a small family operation and learn a little about Jerseys as I'd like to eventually have a family milk cow. And I'd also be happy to report back to HT with an honest assessment of our visit if you'd like.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

I'm no dairy expert but that teat wound doesn't look so bad. I was thinking the milk was literally spraying all over the place. Can you milk her as is? If so I might just leave it be. No sense in creating another wound if you don't have to.


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## allenslabs (Feb 6, 2005)

Doesn't look too bad to me either. I've had goats with a large orifice that had worse problems than that. They leaked all the time. I was told to try prep H on them but don't know that it would work in this case. Oh and there is actually something to put on that will close the orifice till needed open again but I am drawing a blank LOL! Hate it when that happens....cause it happens a lot.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

You know...some jersey's are just thin. Most of them are in fact. Perhaps not that thin, but it happens. If they are a really good cow, you have to watch them because they will milk their backs off. A cow in this condition that is giving 5 gallons of milk a day.....she's milking her back off. I'd lower the alfalfa ration pronto no matter what your feed guy says. If you're feeding 12 lbs of alfalfa pellets per day and walking her to eat fresh alfalfa, I believe that encourages her to produce more milk rather than helps her build up her body condition.


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

Well folks. Take a look at the Cowsmopolitan site for the winning jerseys. The way some of them looked I would say a few here would have had the animal abuse folks right there. But, for the most part the camera angle plays a bigg part. We was in teh stands in front and above them. Go to the link I have here http://www.cowsmo.com/11OCT_ExpoJerseycowresults_000.html Then take alook at the mature cow class. Now them pics make them look great but put a differnt angle on them and they looked mighty thin. FOr the most part the ribs showed on every cow above a 3 yr old. Its true a older jersey will milk herself to death.
Bob


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## allenslabs (Feb 6, 2005)

Geez! That 4 year old class had hooters galore but man....thin. And if I had to guess, they showed them at the best angle possible so they probably looked lots worse. 
I know a man who had a 700lb cow that gave 70lbs of milk a day. 10% of her weight every day was given in milk. She was a shorter jersey at a registered jersey dairy. She was really something in my opinion.


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

i went to the link...some of them looked thin yep
but truly no comparison to the picture I saw of the cow in this post


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

That link does put some perspective on it, doesn't it. Most of the cows in the 5 year class are pretty close to the same condition. They're probably milking more, but this gal's got 5 years on them, too.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

I'm with you Lamoncha lover, I must not be seeing the same pics these people are talking about. I don't see ANY ribs on those cows. 

I had just milked the cow before I took the pics of the teat. Yes, she leaks ALL day drip by drip, then when she lets her milk down when I'm milking her it squirts out the side. You really can't milk the teat out by hand very good and when you do it REALLY sprays back at you. 

Sorry all you girl farmers for letting you down. I tried to get to see her calf, he just didn't act like he wanted to take me to the pasture to show me anything. So I didn't push the issue and made the call to remove the cow from where she was.


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

The point I was trying to make folks is that all cattle do not need to be slick and fat to be deemed in good shape. Take the cows at the dairy expo. I never went to the barns to look closer at them but they were thin. The pics really donot show it. My guess is yes they skip a milking before show to get them bags. But, for the most part them older cows would be pushing close to 80 - 100 lbs aday.
Jill Pear is thinner then them show girls but look close as to how thin the musscles were in the back legs and such. If you could take the bags off Pear and the show cows Pear would only been behind them by maybe 100-150 lbs. These are not the big candian jerseys that used to put holstiens to shame any more.
Now the teat. Once its healed like that there is nothing a vet can due. Is there still a orfice in the end? A injure like that would be better suited to be machine milked. Also we use fight bac teat spray. It helps seal the end to prevent bacteria growth and such. Also it helps contrace the muscle to seal off the teat too. Farm and Fleet carries it.
Now the calf, if something like that was said by me to a customer. The under tone to it would be the calf was dead. Its easier to say its in the pasture then to say it died and cause a bunch of questions as to why. ALso if the records are off also it might be hard to pick out specific calf too. I have that issue alot. But I am up front with folks and tell it like it is. Marc might have been pinched for time and just did not want to do the 20 questions. This time of year is hell on a small farm. You have to get anything and everything done before snow flys.
Jill you got my number any time you want to chat just call, day or night.
Bob


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

JDog1222 said:


> I'm with you Lamoncha lover, I must not be seeing the same pics these people are talking about. I don't see ANY ribs on those cows.
> 
> .


I am not a cow expert..but thin and emaciated are a bit different at least in the horse world/
I am not picking sides. I think you saw what you got when you got there. You chose to load her up. And I would be ashamed if an animal was that emaciated on my place.
I wish you the best with her. Now I am gonna stay out if this


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

I see what you're saying Madsaw, guess I wouldn't have been in such sock if I hadn't have been shown the pic from 2 years ago and got the idea that was what she would look like. If I'm wrong and she's not too thin then I'm wrong. I just want to know the truth about this cow so I can know where to go from here. If the calf was born dead she may not be able to have more calves, so that would be nice to know if I want to spend a ton to have her AI'd. YES, I LOVE for people to just tell it like it is! I do think I should have been told though during the sale if it was born dead. 

I'd also still say that this animal should have been getting more food. Less computer time and more cow time may have made the difference for this cow. She is putting on the flesh now, I'll post some 4 week pics tomorrow ta see what ya think. 

Yes the opening at the end of the teat works just fine. 

No, he was not the one in a hurry, I was.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

JDog1222 said:


> I got to be gone the rest of the day. I think this teat is not that bad off and can be fixed so I can hand milk w/out it spraying back at me.


We have a cow in the dairy that cut off the entire end of her teat somehow. Without the sphincter muscle to close off the teat end, as soon as she lets milk down, it sprays everywhere. Drips some during the day. But all I have to do is wipe her down *quickly* when she gets in the barn and slap that milker on her before her milk lets down. She milk good milk out just fine. And yes, my vet said fixing it would be very hard and very expensive. So we left it and that was two lactations ago. She dries off just fine when we stop milking her. Never had a problem with mastitis. So the outlook for your girl as far as drying off shouldn't be a problem.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

JDog1222 said:


> Also lead this newbie to believe she was proly bred by now.
> "Knowing her, she'll give you a heifer in about 9 months!! LOL... Picture sent. Let us know what your plans are to pick her up. Oh, cash is good. (grin)"


Hmm, to me(who isn't on anyones "side") that sounds like a joke. He told you she had been running with a bull and had calved two months ago. Maybe you didn't know it, but most cows don't cycle till two months after calving, and if milking heavy, likely not then. Especially an older cow. I'm sure Marc is familiar with this, but as its second nature for a dairyman, didn't think to stress the point to you. "Running with a bull" means simply that, nothing else.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Sad situation all around. Hope Marc sticks around, I like him and his input. This whole thing should have been kept private. Wish all the best.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

JDog1222 said:


> Yes, she is 10 or so I think. By her teeth&#8230;&#8230;at least 7-8, I got her about 3 weeks ago. They didn&#8217;t have the papers ready, wanted my address so they could mail them. I haven&#8217;t gotten the papers yet. I can&#8217;t tell you for sure that she is only two months from calving. When I asked to see her calf, I was told it is somewhere out in the pasture. I asked if they would have to bottle feed the calf now but they said NO it was big enough to wean. I asked about weaning a 2mo. old calf with all those milk cows around, but, said it was big enough. When shown the calendar for the calf&#8217;s born on date, it only said DUE on such and such, never a BIRTH record. You don&#8217;t think she slipped the calf and that&#8217;s why it&#8217;s somewhere in the pasture do you? I NEVER thought of that!
> The teat has a large gash at the end of it, like a slit. The milk drips out the side. If she lets her milk down it squirts out the side. He said to use teat infusion tips to milk her with. So I do, the milk just pours right out then.


So if he told you to use the infusion tips to milk her, you did know about the teat injury before buying her? Just making sure I understand, not pointing fingers or anything. 

By the way, many dairies(and people on this board) wean bottle calves by 6-8weeks of age. Its quite common. And *dam-raised* calves are usually almost twice as big as bottle calves and can *easily* be weaned by the two month mark.

A cow milking that heavy did not "slip a calf". Very few cows come into much, if any milk after slipping a calf.

And besides being very thin, that cow looks healthy.


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## LibertyWool (Oct 23, 2008)

ozark_jewels said:


> Sad situation all around. Hope Marc sticks around, I like him and his input. This whole thing should have been kept private. Wish all the best.


Ozark, you may not have gotten to read the other thread before it was closed and a lot was deleted. I saw most of the posts except for the one that Marc changed. I think Jill started off right with this thread, just looking for help. But there seems to have been some instant Karma when Marc started with about "Short Rant - Newbies and cows". I can see both sides, and I don't think either will ever see eye to eye. Marc denied the cow was in that shape and Jill went off the deep end. You're right it is a sad situation, but it sure has drawn a lot attention (over 1800 views between both threads). As with most things, the truth lies somewhere in-between.


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

ozark_jewels said:


> Sad situation all around. Hope Marc sticks around, I like him and his input. This whole thing should have been kept private. Wish all the best.


me too


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

WOW, thanks ozark jewels. He really made me think she could be bred.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

JDog1222 said:


> WOW, thanks ozark jewels. He really made me think she could be bred.


Well, we'd all like our cows to breed back as soon as is safely possible and running with a bull, it is of course possible. Sounds to me like she has bred like clockwork in the past, the way he was talking. And of course, who wouldn't hope the cow they are buying is bred.


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

Here's a picture of Pear's heifer calf. As we told Jill, she was out in the pasture. She's grazing and eating hay right along with the cows. Today she decided to come up with the other cows, so Marc snapped her picture. DD tells me that's Sally in the background.










Olivehill, we'll send you a PM and make plans for your visit. 

I'm done defending our reputation on this thread. If anyone has any comments or questions, please feel free to PM me.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

AverageJo said:


> Here's a picture of Pear's heifer calf. As we told Jill, she was out in the pasture. She's grazing and eating hay right along with the cows. Today she decided to come up with the other cows, so Marc snapped her picture. DD tells me that's Sally in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the picture.

She sure looks like the typical dam-raised Jersey calf....a chub!LOL!! Last one I showed to a dairy owner, he told me I was lying and that the calf *must* have beef in the genetics.


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## allenslabs (Feb 6, 2005)

Amazing what dam raised v bottle raised is isn't it? LOL! Same with goat kids and other critters. We can try all we like, but mommas are the best at raising them....usually. Have one I am feeding now that the momma had no milk so.....at least most all are better LOL!


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Darned good old cow to come back that heavily into milk after being almost starved. Keep feeding her, get a vet on that teat and get your papers. I'd worm her, too, even if I had to feed some milk to the pigs. She should bring you several good calves before she is too old to tango. I hope you have a warm shelter for her this winter. She does not have a lot of fat to keep her warm. 

I don't see too much worry about Johnes Disease since you don't mention scours and I see no signs of it in the pictures. 

If she is open and on full feed you should soon see a marked improvement in her condition.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Cydectin Pour-On has no milk withdrawal if you are going to worm her.


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## LibertyWool (Oct 23, 2008)

AverageJo, call me a skeptic, but are you sure that is the right image? It shows it was taken back in June 2003.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

I'm guessing the camera is just not set correctly. I am not worried about proving anything, I know the condition of Pear when I got her. Two horses could easily keep cows away from a round bale and by the way Pear acts around our horse. She was proly just getting ran off the food. I have 3 cows and one horse and I STILL put out 3 round bales to make sure EVERYONE can eat.  
I posted some latest pics of her at keeping a family cow, she is really improving. Putting on weight AND giving 5+gals. per day.


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## sassafras manor (Dec 5, 2009)

LIberty wool - keep in mind the time your data shows and the angle of the sun and shadows on the cow in the background. A little background observation shows the picture could not have been taken at 11:30 am. The angle of the sun is too low. In my opinion it is a morning picture taken between 7:00-7:30am. Plus if in fact it was taken the first week of June, the grass in the background would be much more lush and abundant and not too many poeple are feeding hay that time of the year in northern Illinois.


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

First off I would like to appolgize to Marc and his family. I was just making a for instense comment as to why he may have said the heifer was out int he pasture. Please accept my appolgies.
Next yes I will agree a pudge like that will only come from cow serves. They really grow with that kind of milk.
LW
Marc is not far below me. Given the time of yr and such that is a recent pic.

Now it seems all is calming down and things came to light and been explained. 
Can we stop
:bdh:
And move on
Jill and Marc may still have a few things to iron out amongst themselves. So lets let them be.
Bob


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## mozarkian (Dec 11, 2009)

Amen!


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Both Catherine (Average_Jo) and Jill are good friends of mine and I think under other circumstances would be good friends together. I am so sorry this has happened to both parties. Neither are the type to make up stories or be vindictive. 

Summer of 2010 we sent our little bull calf to Marc & Catherine's place because he just wasn't thriving here. We were certain that with Marc's knowledge and some good milk he would put on weight and thrive. Which he has. That same summer, Marc asked to graze some of his cattle at our place since his pastures were wearing thin (it was a hot, dry summer last year.)

Marc has a very wry sense of humor and speaks very loud. I can see where Jill might have been intimidated by him. He doesn't mean any harm, in fact, he is a very tenderhearted man, still, he _*can *_be intimidating without meaning to be.

I don't believe for a minute that Jill posted this thread for any other reason than what she said in her OP. She needed help and asked for it. The negative postings came from other folks, not Jill.

We did receive a sealed envelope from Marc & Catherine in the mail yesterday to forward on to Jill.


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