# Horse ownership laws? (Long)



## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

This is a tad long, but here goes. On our local county chat board about a year ago, a girl on there was advertising 2 quarter horses for sale. We went and got them. The one Appendix gelding is my daughters that she's been taking dressage lessons on and the mare is my son's horse. At that time we really weren't told the whole truth about the horses, but we managed to work through it all and now they're really good horses and the kids are very attached to them.

OK, on to the present. We found an ad on CL for pigeons and made a deal on a bunch of white homing pigeons and wouldn't you know, the person selling the pigeons was a relation to the girl that sold us the horses and I walked right into the middle of a family drama episode. Sigh. Well, besides the fact that I got to hear all about how the girl that sold us the horses knew absolutely nothing about horses and how she didn't know how to work with them and how this girl had been working with horses for years and so forth, I was also informed that this girl had no right to sell us the horses as they belonged to her husband's ex-wife. Well, he is also the one that sold us the horses. It wasn't just her, it was a joint venture. I had no intention of getting into the middle of their fight over the horses.

Then today, we were supposed to meet them to get the birds. She calls and says they're running late and that they couldn't put the birds in a box, they had to be in a crate and so could they just deliver them to our house. Hmmmmm. Well, frankly, I don't really like people coming to my house and I really don't like drama family people coming to my house, but I reluctantly agreed as she said it would be very hard to move the pigeons from crate to crate. Sigh. So, he shows up and what are the pigeons in? A BOX!!! So, why the insistence they had to come here? And the whole time he's here he's talking to us, but he's busy looking all around. That was very annoying.

So, now I'm wondering, what legalities are there in this sort of situation on the horses? We've owned them for over a year and they are well taken care of and I'm not about to hand them back over. I see divorced people sell their spouses stuff all the time, but is it legal? This couple had been married for close to 6 months before the horses were sold. Remind me never again to let someone come to my house when my better judgement tells me no. Sigh


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Do you have a bill of sale for the horses?

One of the things I learned years ago (from a horse trader friend of mine) was to get a signed bill of sale with one of the phrases in the bill of sale being "I warrant that I am the sole owner of the horse described, have full title, there are no liens against said horse and that I warrant clear title" and so on ... wording may depend a bit on the state you are in, but basically the seller is signing a contract with the buyer that he has the right to sell the horse, is the only owner and if someone sues and tries to repossess the animal, saying the seller did not own it, the seller agrees to pay all expenses of any court case, etc., refund $$ or however it works in your state.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

I won't deal with that family for anything. Look else where for what you want.
And it sounds like, now that you have the horse's going good, they want them back for free.
Don't let them know where you live.

If you have a Bill of sale.. they won't have a leg to stand on.


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

I am an admitted paranoid, but be VERY watchful, and put LOCKS on your barn doors and pasture gates. They sound like they will either try to get them from you legally or illeagally, but either way, possesion is 9/10ths of the law.


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

jill.costello said:


> I am an admitted paranoid, but be VERY watchful, and put LOCKS on your barn doors and pasture gates. They sound like they will either try to get them from you legally or illeagally, but either way, possesion is 9/10ths of the law.


That's what scares me. :-( They usually have the run of 80 acres, but I'm wondering if I ought to lock them up here by the house. Sigh. :-( 

No bill of sale that I recall. Most of the people out here, you shake hands and it's a done deal. Times sure are changing and not for the better. It bothers me immensely that he was looking around the whole time he was talking to us never really making eye contact.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

6e said:


> That's what scares me. :-( They usually have the run of 80 acres, but I'm wondering if I ought to lock them up here by the house. Sigh. :-(
> 
> No bill of sale that I recall. Most of the people out here, you shake hands and it's a done deal. Times sure are changing and not for the better. It bothers me immensely that he was looking around the whole time he was talking to us never really making eye contact.


You shouldn't have let them onto your property, but you know that now and there's no use crying over spilled milk.

Did you pay for the horses in cash or with a money order/ check/ bank draft of some kind? In other words, is there any paper trail, email correspondence, etc. to prove that you bought the horses in case it comes to a "he said/she said"?

And where was your DH when this guy was looky-looing all over your property?
He needs to make sure that people know NO ONE is allowed tresspass on your property. Period. 

What's done is done. Just make sure you stay confident and make the right decision moving forward; hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

Hopefully the family drama fest was just them bad-mouthing other members of the extended family and nothing more. 

I'm sorry you had to deal with such turnips


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Honestly, I think I'd move the horses, if that's an option. If it isn't possible, then I'd at least have them where you can see who comes and goes, especially if there is any chance that he saw where they are.

And as far as the bill of sale thing goes, the horse trader that gave me that original copy of the bill of sale lived in Wyoming and it was probably 20 years ago ... most everyone did things on a handshake then, or the copy of the cashed check but this trader had bought and sold more horses than I'll even see in my lifetime and he'd met all kinds. He was a great guy ... but he'd been in the business long enough to be cynical.


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

I think I'm getting super cynical. LOL It has been a crazy day!!!! A friend of ours got a free Boer goat. Unbeknownest to us, the Boer buck LOVES people and will clear just about any fence to be with people. Well, apparently he jumped the fence to see his neighbors and well, long story short. This psychotic woman comes down and beats on his door with some kind of rod or pipe or something until she breaks the door in and the police had to be called. All over a goat!!!! Sheesh. So, we brought the goat here and promptly found him a new home. 

Anyway, back to the horses. We can see all the way across the pasture and with no moon, there's no way they can navigate across there in a truck or on foot without flashlights or headlights. But if my husband thinks it's a good idea, we'll lock them up here by the house. It's too bad we have to be this way out of suspicion. I do have the original ad of the horses when they were for sale. And I do have the e-mails concerning the horses. So there is SOME sort of trail on them.  

I really didn't want to let them come to my house, but felt sort of locked into it. Feels kind of rude to tell people, "No I don't want you at my house"


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## malinda (May 12, 2002)

I wrote up a Bill of Sale/Transfer of Ownership for a horse that I got for FREE. The "seller" would have just let me load him in the trailer and drive away, but I wanted something in writing, just so there are no surprises down the road.

I would agree on keeping the horses close to your house or at least where someone will be around and if you can, lock the gate at night.


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

Would it help to contact the local law enforcement agency and tell them what is going on, see if they can also keep an eye on the place? Not sure if that would be a good idea or make a sticky situation even stickier....


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

They don't generally come out this far and on top of it, the law enforcement is probably related to them in one way, shape or form. LOL


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

I tend to work off of a *first strike* principle - if I think something I'm involved in, be it work, family, whatever - has a chance of being presented to a third party for input or evaluation, I want to be the first one to bring it up. That way I know my position is the one that takes precedence by default, and all following information is measured against what I've already presented. Maybe you could use a similar tactic in case these folks decide to involve the authorities?


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