# 22 lr fired from small pistol



## farmgirl6 (May 20, 2011)

I had a chicken mangled by a varmit, so I took my 22 eight shot ruger with a 1.5" barrel down with me, loaded with 22 LR..didn't see the varmint, but saw several rats up in the tree against the truck about twenty feet up in my chicken yard, I thought it was a good accuracy check so shot at them, bagged one... Hubby was furious, I live on three acres, I was at the very back of the property about 1000 feet or so from the closest house, he said it was very dangerous and reckless, browbeat me (course, he likes doing that anyway) , told me the bullet could travel to a neighborhood way across the street...was puzzled and concerned, this is my personal defense weapon and I figured fairly safe with bystanders, at least as safe as any bystander can be, I am a good shot (bagged a five inch rat in the dark 20 feet up in a tree) and would be extremely careful before ever using it to defend myself, but if I shoot at a lone person I don't want to worry about hitting a kid in a school a mile away...is there a better round for my 22? he uses snake shot when he shoots rats; but I thought that was more for better kill rate than safely...now I am terribly worried I will wake up and read about someone being injured in the neighborhood


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## wilded (May 10, 2002)

The .22 long rifle has a range on one mile when fired into the air. Never fire up where you could send a bullet off to who knows where unless in an area where there are no houses within a mile. Rat shot will not kill much of anything past about 20 feet. JMHO


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

You're probably ok with a pistol with a short barrel, but that ammo of .22 is made to travel farther. Of course that's with a longer barreled rifle.
Your husband is right about using the snake shot for something like you were doing. I'm thinking more in terms of trajectory. You were probably shooting upwards into the tree vs. down at the ground, right?
You would have to be very unlucky to hit someone with a stray shot from there, but it is possible, play it safe next time.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

I am no expert for sure. But I was taught never shoot into the air for the reasons you suspect. 

I live in town limits, so I'm not supposed to fire off the 22 anyway.eep:

After a pitiful crazy incident with my pellet gun and a possum many years ago, I took to using my bow. I do look like an insane woman in my housecoat and pajammers asking my son to hold the flashlight. Got quite a few varmits with the bow, but once I did lose an arrow. Never have figured out what happened to that thing. I miss my dog. She never missed an opportunity to tree ***** and possums and let me know where to look. Since she has passed on, I suppose the varmits have a heckuva time out in my yard at night, and I don't even know about it.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I shot some with a 9mm but you got to catch them on the ground or just a few feet up the tree 

unless you have a huge tree and your shooting into it you should avoid shooting up into a tree with nothing to stop your miss


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Depending on the direction you were shooting, it could be very dangerous yes. Shooting up into a tree especially when dark is IMO not the best idea, if you have such limited acreage. I have killed a coyote at 270 yards with a .22 long rifle before, they are a lethal little round..

I would suggest rat shot next time. Don't worry about it. Just something to keep in mind.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

farmerDale - with luck like yours, I wouldn't want to play poker with you!!


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## CCCC (Nov 21, 2011)

I did see the other day they make a powderless type of bullet just in a .22 cal and it states for use in urban areas. Not sure on the details, but it was on cheaper than dirt, you may want to check it out.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I wonder how .22 bird shot would do for self defense if fired at the face?


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

rod44 said:


> farmerDale - with luck like yours, I wouldn't want to play poker with you!!


Luck? pffft! I hit right where I was aimin'! lol...

RIIIIGGGGGGHHHHHHHTTTTTTTT!!!


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

CCCC said:


> I did see the other day they make a powderless type of bullet just in a .22 cal and it states for use in urban areas. Not sure on the details, but it was on cheaper than dirt, you may want to check it out.



one type is Remingtion Cbee's they are suposed to exit the muzzle at 740 fps , and be doing 687 at 50 yards 

in my testing they would not go thru a 2x4 shot from a few feet 1 1/2 inches of pine was enough to stop them unless you shot the same spot repeatedly 

this would be better as they would loose energy and fall sooner but should still be enough for rats 

I have used them for dispatch and even when fired from just a few inches away they rarely exited **** or opossum but would be found under the skin on the other side so they still penetrate about 4 inches at this close distance so they are not to be though of as too weak to kill.

most high velocity 1240fps 22 hollow point rounds zip right thru a **** or opossum and out the other side even when shot thru the skull

it may be an option but it is still a projectile in the air you are responsible for


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

farmerDale said:


> Luck? pffft! I hit right where I was aimin'! lol...
> 
> RIIIIGGGGGGHHHHHHHTTTTTTTT!!!



I think we may have all made a lucky shot at some time in our lives but it definitly has to make you think if a hit at that distance will kill a yote , wow what could a miss that hit something else at that distance do.

I have an uncle that was shot with a 22 while riding in a motor boat down the river , they never found the person who shot him they suspect that with the number of cabins in the area some one picked up a 22 not realizing it was loaded and took aim at the boat and pulled the trigger , scared when it went off they may have or may not have seen him get hit they quickly put it away and drove home , thats the theory any way they have no idea where the shot came from they were moving fast enough and my aunt started treating him right away and they only had a rough location as they took him to a dock where they could be met by an ambulance , the police checked all the cabins for a mile on the side of the river that the shot came from but didn't find anyone who had seen or heard anything most of the cabins were empty that time of the year.

but there are guys who can make 2-300 yard shots with a 22lr , they use 22lr in long barreled rifles with vernier sights to practice and learn to read the wind , if they can learn to read the wind well with 22lr out to 200, 300 or 400 yards they can then learn to read the wind better with their 45-70, 45-90 and 45-120 rifles out to 600, 800 and 900 yards


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

That is why I brought it up. An errant bullet is downright dangerous...


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

farmerDale said:


> That is why I brought it up. An errant bullet is downright dangerous...


I always worry about stray bullets with plenty of weekend warriers out in deer season . as a child we lost a pony when he was shot in deer season . get some good rat poisin and build a bate station that they can get into to feast while your livestock can't . mine are 1x6 x16 with the ends 1/2 covered I keep them filled and in my coop and barns this keeps rats under control . I had old friends who had great fun sitting in the evening shooting rats seems a farmer neighbor ;1/4mile away, of theres had a pit filled with silage that bred thousands of them .fun for them till he tried to have a big community garden and there was nothing to harvest but hollow mellons sweet corn cobs they even ate the underground penuts sweet and irish potatos and tomatos . their shooting never madea dent in the population . for every one rat you see there are 50 that you don't .if these germ carryers are found in trees and easy to see they are prabaly over populated and costing you bigtime eating your feed and digging holes around foundations .


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

arnie said:


> I always worry about stray bullets with plenty of weekend warriers out in deer season . as a child we lost a pony when he was shot in deer season . get some good rat poisin and build a bate station that they can get into to feast while your livestock can't . mine are 1x6 x16 with the ends 1/2 covered I keep them filled and in my coop and barns this keeps rats under control . I had old friends who had great fun sitting in the evening shooting rats seems a farmer neighbor ;1/4mile away, of theres had a pit filled with silage that bred thousands of them .fun for them till he tried to have a big community garden and there was nothing to harvest but hollow mellons sweet corn cobs they even ate the underground penuts sweet and irish potatos and tomatos . their shooting never madea dent in the population . for every one rat you see there are 50 that you don't .if these germ carryers are found in trees and easy to see they are prabaly over populated and costing you bigtime eating your feed and digging holes around foundations .


All of which is why terriers were developed. But here are some images to show how efficient working bred terriers really are.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ter...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=Fy2eUv7SCtDdoATp9oDoBw


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Some years ago my neighbor was doing some field work with his tractor in the dead of winter. I don't remember just what,anyway this field in in the middle of nowhere. All of a sudden he got a bad pain in his left side. "What the H#$%! that hurt like a B#%%&! didn't find anything that could have caused it. At the end of the day he came in and a 22 bullet fell out of his layered clothing when he took his jacket off.It had gone thru his jacket and stopped outside his flannel shirt and he had a serious blood blister on his side.No way to find out who what when where.


Wade


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

In hunter education we teach target and BEYOND. Farmgirl6, your husband was right. Please don't feed the anti-gun nuts.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

BUT, I have shot thousands of squirrels, mostly with .22 shorts, and probably 99% of them were from shooting up into a tree. Millions of other squirrel hunters have done the same throughout North America. Were we all wrong?

Martin


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Martin-In todays political correctness you are only wrong if you don't have a piece of paper that says you are right!


Wade


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

A .22 will travel over a mile and come down with enough force to kill someone. I've seen the hunting shows with people firing at squirrels in trees and always wondered the same. Here in Western New York such an action would be extremely foolish and careless. I know it still happens but it must be by the grace of God that nobody has been hurt or killed yet. As hunters and shooters we are under extreme scutiny by the media, the non shooting public and liberal politicians waiting to again curtail our rights. We can not afford to disregard safe gun handling and must continue to educate those who do.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

I have shot hundreds of squirrels out of trees too. BUT, I am not shooting at a squirrel in a tree on five acres, I am shooting on my own land, which I can not shoot across, so there are no safety concerns. If I hit a human, they are trespassing. 

It simply depends on where you are at. Some areas that are infested with as many humans as squirrels, it'll be a safety issue.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Go shotgun with bird shot - that will drop like a rock after not so many yards. And you won't miss!

Don't do like I did once with my shotgun, however - went Rambo on a porcupine in my garden one night and must have hit it 3 times. Was picking out quills from the dirt for years! Since I have wised up and slowed down a bit.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Inasmuch as we've established that the range of a .22 is one mile, is there any place in this country to shoot a treed squirrel or **** without having another human within that range? Shotgun not usually used on **** and more of a chance to miss than shooting at the smaller squirrel. For that matter, never saw a squirrel ever stop any .22 bullet. 

Martin


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

The one thing that no one has brought up yet,

is the use of .22 bb caps. Less than half the 

size of a short and consisting of a small cartridge

and a single round lead bb in the exit side. Use to

use them as a kid with a single shot rifle to kill muskrats

and made it more sporting to try sneaking up on them as

they swam towards their den and shoot them in the head from

6 feet or less. Never had a pellet exit their body. The charge

powering them is basically the primer on the inside of the rim - no extra powder!

Doubt they would be lethal (or accurate) much past a hundred feet. Perfect for rats or squirrels.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Paquebot said:


> Inasmuch as we've established that the range of a .22 is one mile, is there any place in this country to shoot a treed squirrel or **** without having another human within that range? Shotgun not usually used on **** and more of a chance to miss than shooting at the smaller squirrel. For that matter, never saw a squirrel ever stop any .22 bullet.
> 
> Martin


In this country, yes. 

:happy:


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

I can walk out on my deck and shoot in 3 directions without people within a mile. Not uncommon in some places.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

I'm curious now. Anyone have any figures on how many people have been ever been killed or injured by .22 bullets falling out of the sky? 

Martin


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Our government getting stupid along with the ammo situation and all the hassle you get trying to buy/sell firearms,and houses going up all around to the point you have to stop and think before you pull the trigger on a 22 is what drove me to look at adult airguns about a year ago.I studies and read and ask questions all over the web and have finally decided on the one to buy.(I don't have a lot of money to waist so could not afford to make a mistake. Anyway I got one .177 with enough power to kill a squirrel out to 65 yards.
I've got less than $150 in this and it's not one of those(souped up bb guns) like gamo etc. It's a real quality firearm and it'll outlast my grand kids and ammo is $.01 per shot.How does 1/2 moa @ 50 yds sound to ya?
Anyway,if anyone is so inclined,this would make a good option.


Wade


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

In a study done in the US, more than 300 people were struck by stray bullets in a single year. Several died. Several were injured badly. Not all were .22 rimfire, but google is interesting.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Dale-Just a gut feeling but I'd bet about all of them were"horizontal" rather than "falling'" vertical from being shot into the air. Maybe 1-2% if I had to guess. It just stands to reason considering the time the bullet spends in the last 7 feet on the atmosphere.(I guess unless you are more than 7' tall!LOL)


Wade


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

fishhead said:


> I wonder how .22 bird shot would do for self defense if fired at the face?


I wouldn't trust it. You'd have to be too close for comfort, and even then the assailant might not be injured enough and could be extra angry. But .22 hollow points would do the trick. Better yet would be a 12 gauge with #4 Buck.

I gave up on using .22 birdshot for anything years ago. It's a waste of money, as far as I'm concerned. If I need to shoot Starlings or some other bird pest, which is rare, I'll use a shotgun with 7 or 8 shot.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Here are a couple of articles that deal with bullets falling from above. 

http://www.smh.com.au/world/falling-bullet-kills-boy-at-church-20100105-lqiy.html

http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/q...red-into-the-air-kill-a-person-when-they-fall


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Despite the number of deaths and injuries due to falling bullets, I could find none attributed to .22. That's why I asked the question in case I missed something when looking for it. Having a fusillade of AK47 or 50mm bullets is a large difference from a .22 LR at 1000 f.p.s. The stated mile range of a .22 LR is horizontal, not vertical. At its vertical apex it will stop and then fall at the same rate of speed as anything else affected by gravity. Small .22 bullet will fall at the same acceleration rate as a .45. Damage would be determined by the weight of the bullet and how far it has to drop. In all likelihood, a .22 LR would never reach fatal speed. 

Martin


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

A 22 would more than likely not be falling straight down.. It would be falling in an arc since more than likely it wasn't shot straight up... so since it is traveling both vertically and horizontally, it would have a much faster speed behind it, thus hitting with more force...


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

There are ballistic trajectory charts which show the rate of bullet speed. Fired in an arc, the impact speed would be less than if fired straight up due to resistance and diminishing acceleration. A bullet from straight up would have more speed due to increasing acceleration caused by gravity. 

Martin


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

That's not what I've seen and read, nor what physics says... 

You have to factor in Newton's law.. a bullet dropped from the same height as a bullet fired will reach the ground at the same time... The fired one will have a much greater amount of energy traveling with it when it impacts the ground, than the one dropped.

You have to remember , the one fired will have more energy behind it since it's traveling horizontally at a faster speed.. So one fired in an arc will be traveling with more energy since it is still moving horizontally, than one falling straight down.. Not only do you have the vertical energy, you add the horizontal energy...


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

A bullet dropped will begin with zero acceleration and fall 16' in the first second. A .22 LR bullet fired from the same height will be 1,000 feet down in that same amount of time. 

Also, any bullet travelling horizontally begins losing acceleration as soon as gravity and air resistance begins to take effect. Bullets are pointed to lessen resistance. Considerably less powder is needed to propel them than would be required with a musket ball. 

Martin


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)




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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

simi-steading said:


>


Think of what you said about a dropped bullet from a height as versus a fired bullet from same height. You can drop a .22 bullet on me all day from 16' and it will never hurt me. Fire one down from the roof of a 2-story building and I'm hurting big time!

Martin


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

But what I'm getting at is, a bullet traveling in an arc will have more energy.. even if it's a very steep arc.. the forward movement adds to the energy... thus you do have more of a chance being injured from a bullet traveling at even a very steep arc, than one falling straight down..


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Yes and no. A .30-06 bullet can easily travel several miles. If you could hit a deer with it at 1 mile, wouldn't hurt it much. A .22 LR may travel a mile but not much hurt at 500 yards. Feet per second rating of ammo is based on as the bullet leaves the muzzle. Depending upon the propellant, velocity drops off rapidly at a certain distance from the muzzle and continues to do so until it hits something or falls to the ground. Fired in a straight line or in an arc, the farther away the bullet gets from the muzzle the slower its rate of acceleration. 

Find a ballistic chart for different size ammo and you'll see what it's about. You'll find that if I shoot at a deer at 300 yards with my .222, and another hunter shoots at the same moment with my .30-06, the deer will be on the ground before the larger bullet gets there. 

Martin


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Another thing to ponder. If one has hunted ducks and geese enough times around a popular lake, there's going to be shot falling on him sooner or later. They go up powerful enough to stop a goose in a moment but harmless when falling back out of the sky. More risk of physical damage by being hit with the falling goose than from the shot.

Martin


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Paquebot said:


> Yes and no. A .30-06 bullet can easily travel several miles. If you could hit a deer with it at 1 mile, wouldn't hurt it much. A .22 LR may travel a mile but not much hurt at 500 yards. Feet per second rating of ammo is based on as the bullet leaves the muzzle. Depending upon the propellant, velocity drops off rapidly at a certain distance from the muzzle and continues to do so until it hits something or falls to the ground. Fired in a straight line or in an arc, the farther away the bullet gets from the muzzle the slower its rate of acceleration.
> 
> Find a ballistic chart for different size ammo and you'll see what it's about. You'll find that if I shoot at a deer at 300 yards with my .222, and another hunter shoots at the same moment with my .30-06, the deer will be on the ground before the larger bullet gets there.
> 
> Martin


Depends where you hit the deer with the .222! Any margin of error, and you have a badly wounded deer. 

Just messing with ya, I know you are a proponent of head shots...


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

O>K> guys,Maybe this will help. I recently ran my numbers thru hawke optic chairgun program and these are absolute figures.
>177 cal. 7.9 grain pellet muzzle velocity of 864fps has 13.1 fpe 
The outside shooting limit for terminal energy on a squirrel is 65 yards with a velocity of 596 fps and 6.2 fpe.
As you can see the farther from the muzzle the projectile travels the slower it travels and because the projectile weight is a constant the foot pounds of energy must also decrease. It is a given science that will work with all projectiles that will maintain a constant weight therefore a more exact science must be applied to things like sabots etc. 
I hope this was clear enough to understand'cause I sometimes don't get all the right words in.

Wade


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Paquebot said:


> Another thing to ponder. If one has hunted ducks and geese enough times around a popular lake, there's going to be shot falling on him sooner or later. They go up powerful enough to stop a goose in a moment but harmless when falling back out of the sky. More risk of physical damage by being hit with the falling goose than from the shot.
> 
> Martin


I knew a guy that happened to look up at a bird and lost his eye due to one of the falling pellets.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

farmerDale said:


> Depends where you hit the deer with the .222! Any margin of error, and you have a badly wounded deer.
> 
> Just messing with ya, I know you are a proponent of head shots...


Of all deer that I've got with the .222, there was only one head shot since all I could see was one eye and a nose. Hit dead center on the chin! For all others, a deer facing me is shot straight into the neck. If quartering or broadside, into the neck just ahead of the shoulder. Those deer do not ever take a single step but collapse in a heap due to instant massive nerve damage. On the other hand, totally destroyed the heart of a buck with my .30-06 and it ran over 100 yards.

Martin


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Possum Belly said:


> I knew a guy that happened to look up at a bird and lost his eye due to one of the falling pellets.


With that bit of information, should all waterfowl now be only shot while sitting in the water?

We had a thread about what to use to stop a crime and consensus seemed that anything less than a .44 magnum was too small. I could stop anyone with one shot from my .22 pistol but it's cruel. Just needs to be bird shot from a short barrel to take out both eyes.

Martin


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Possum Belly said:


> I knew a guy that happened to look up at a bird and lost his eye due to one of the falling pellets.





Paquebot said:


> With that bit of information, should all waterfowl now be only shot while sitting in the water?
> 
> We had a thread about what to use to stop a crime and consensus seemed that anything less than a .44 magnum was too small. I could stop anyone with one shot from my .22 pistol but it's cruel. Just needs to be bird shot from a short barrel to take out both eyes.
> 
> Martin


In this particular instance, they were dove hunting. Someone across the field shot when the other man was looking at some doves in the air.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

ok I don't get it a 222 with a 50gr bullet is going 3140 at the muzzle and a 30-06 with a 150gr bullet also leaves the muzzle at 2920 and i would agree that if the targets were 100 yards away teh 222 gets there first but you put the target 300yards away according to winchester their 50 gr 222 remigtion has slowed to at 100 yards to 2602 by 200 2123 and at 300y 1700fps while a 150 gr 30-06 starts a little bit slower at 2920 it is nearly the same at 100 yards, but by 200 it is faster at 2314 and at 300 it is only slowed to 2041fps , now that isn't much I am not going to run the % of decrease by the yard calculating the time but I think i can safely say a deer doesn't have time to fall in the difference and I know if i change this and use a 125 gr 30-06 It gets there first because it starts at the exact same speed as the 222rem and doesn't loose the energy as fast as the 50 gr 222
if you load the 222 any heavier it starts the same or slower than the 30-06 150gr bullet 

but none of this was really the point THE QUESTION becomes at what velocity does a 40 gr projectile no longer retain the energy to be lethal not sure i can exactly answer that question 

however in 1920 the U.S. army almost answered this question for you but with of course the 150 gr 30 caliber spitzer bullet 
http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/March01.htm
if you don't feel like reading it they basicaly deturmined that it would be non leathal by their standard , but could cause serios injury at 30 foot pounds of energy , so if you can get medical attention it is unlikly that you would die from a free falling bullet even a 150gr one they set their threshold at 60 foot pounds of energy as a disabling woond that would be equivalent to a 40 gr bullet traveling 800fps not a huge supprize that 60 foot pounds of energy is disabling as a 22 would be right about that at 300 yards close to the distance that farmer dale got the lucky shot on the coyote 

so if a 40 gr 22 cal bullet was say down to 30 foot pounds of energy it will depend a lot on if you started with a standard velocity round at 1080 fps or a high velocity round at 1280 the standard will fall below it about 100 yards sooner than the high velocity round , i couldn't get a manufacturers table but about 500 yards remembering that the army noted that even 30 foot pounds of energy could cause serious injury but that it only left a 1/16 the inch dent in a pine board.

if the terminal velocity of a 22 falling strait down is about 300fps and it is 40 gr it is going to very comparable in energy to being shot with a 7.9gr pellet at 660 fps or what most target air rifles are calibrated to , It probably won't kill you but it will take your eye out and it has killed many a squirrel that's basicaly the slowest it could be going and no one is going to be happy if they get hit , but the good news is It probably won't even make it through your neighbors shingles firmly enbeded into possibly but likly not thru all the layers .

if your going to shoot strait up may actually be better than at an angle unless that angle is low enough to be sure to contact trees before it gets where it could find a unwanted target


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Remington .222 50gr V-MAX: 3,395 at muzzle, 2,930 at 100, 2,551 at 200, 2,203 at 300. The time it takes to cover that first 100 yards is what makes the difference and is consistent with many varmint guns.

As for potential damage of a 40gr bullet in free fall from a thousand feet, that's no bigger than pea-size hail which might fall from 2 miles up or higher. Has to be bigger than a marble to more than raise a welt on a person's head.

Martin


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

so much for 222 being 223's slower older weaker brother , with the super performance powder it exceeds normal 223 ballistics of course it puts 223 on the heels of standard 22-250


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hey Guys,
Mythbusters covered this while back, out in the salt flats with an M1.
Most of you guys are pumping hot air. And no I'm not going to start the flames up by telling you who's right. Hint not most of you ! Look it up for yourselves.
Dutch


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Uh, and farmgirl you do realise your in an abusive if his behavior is "normal" for him.
Dump him there are lots of nice guys out there!
Dutch


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

It sounds like a whole bunch of people need to take a Hunters Safety Course. 

Never shoot without a suitable backstop.

Never shoot a skylined target.


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## MrSmith (Jun 24, 2009)

Just to throw my 2 bits in here. I'm an avid duck hunter and back when I had to hunt public water, on opening weekend we were literally rained on by lead (this is back when you could use lead for waterfowl) for several hours. In the dove hunting story it doesn't sound like he was "rained on" rather shot towards. I've looked up into more than one cloud of shot at just the wrong time and they don't even sting bare skin. You would typically use much larger/heavier shot for waterfowl than for dove.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Totally agree with you, Mr. Smith. Duck or dove shot isn't much bigger than sleet and ain't been many people harmed by frozen rain. Horizontal or ground shot would be different and I cut out some shot from my golden retriever one time. We're constantly bombarded with junk from outer space. Anything smaller than a golf ball is just a bump in the night on an average roof and that's come from millions of miles away.

Martin


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