# LGD and Farm Dog What is the difference?



## WesleyDS (Feb 16, 2013)

I keep reading posts about dogs being great farm dogs but not LGD. How would you describe the difference to one who is ignorant of both types?


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

A great farm dog helps his owner with the work. An LGD is only expected to protect the flocks: they MIGHT do more but their job is to guard. 

The best farm dog I ever had was a 35 pound Brittany. He chased the rabbits out of the garden, found chickens when they strayed, and tormented any possums drawn in by the smell of chicken. But, he was small and he was no LGD: a coyote or most stray dogs would have been more than he could handle. Einstein was a lover, not a fighter!


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

Speaking from the farm dog side, I would work long and hard to teach 1 of my dog to be with livestock 24/7 (and i've been training dogs my whole life). While LGD have it genetically imprinted into their code from centuries of selective breeding. 
Just like some dogs come out of the whelping den hunting or herding.
If you take the dogs that are best at what you want done and breed them to likewise abilities, overtime most in that line will have the instinct to do that.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

A livestock guardian dog bonds with and protects the livestock. He may do it with barking, he may be more aggressive.

A farm dog is whatever you want in a farmdog. Some people want a companion to accompany them while they go about their chores. Some people want a gentle natured pet that only turns aggressive if their children are in danger. Some people want a dog that patrols around the house and buildings, and guards the buildings. Some people want a pet that does not chase the livestock. A good farm dog fullfills the needs you have and doesn't roam. My border collie is a good dog, but someone else would prefer a black mouth cur.


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## WesleyDS (Feb 16, 2013)

Thank you all for the feedback. I'm still a little unclear. Doesn't a Boarder Collie, or a German Shepard protect the stock? But from what I am reading neither of these were considered livestock guard dogs. I understand that a BC or an Aussie Shepard may not have the equipment to deal with a coyote on its own but a GS certainly could.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

No BC and GSDs (generally) do not protect the stock. They MAY react aggressively toward a predator entering their territory, and that may inadvertently protect the stock. But that is not the same as actually protecting the stock. And not all will react that way. Whether or not a BC, Aussie or GSD can handle a coyote is very much dependant on the dog & coyote in question. Additionally just because they can handle a single coyote doesn't mean they can handle a pack or a marauding dog or a bear, hog, bobcat or mt lion. Specific breeds doesn't guarantee any specific result it only DRAMATICALLY increases your odds of success.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

A border Collie was bred to assist the shepherd, not guard the flock. 

Border Collies are small. The shepherd can send it out in front of the flock to stop the flock cold, or send it after a particular sheep to remove it from the flock so the shepherd can see why it is limping or whatever.

A German Shepherd was bred to assist the shepherd in an area where there were wolves. A wolf is capable of killing and eating a smaller dog: a German Shepherd can defend itself as well as help with the sheep.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

A shepherd dog's job is to round up and herd stock, not protect them.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Well, I truly believe some dogs have "inbreeding" characteristics to do something specific .. like the LGD we keep reading about on these forums. However, other dogs can be "trained" to do the same thing on a small homestead. I stress the "small" because most dogs want to please their owner and prefer to stay in sight of that owner in order to do so. The LGD's do not need to be in sight of the owner to do what it was bred to do.

I have always owned German Shephards, most recently a shephard mix (anatolian, chow, lab, wolf) that was the best stock-guarding dog ever. She was a "thinker"! She would lay on top of our knoll watching the goats as they browse; and should she become aware of an intruder (usually a neighbor's straying dog; but sometimes a fox, **** or badger), she would charge growling right thru the herd of goats. (These goats had learned she was protecting them; so as my dog charged the intruder, the entire herd would run past my dog toward the barn.) She would (and has on several occasions) protect my family too. [Example: When mother was alive, she wondered up toward the front of our property and fell along side an old shack. I was attempting to help her get up when a policeman stopped to lend a hand. He got out of his car and then stopped (as I heard my dog growl), telling me he would come over to help as soon as he got permission from her, motioning toward my dog. I called Apache (my dog) over to me, praised her, then told her to settle. She did and the policeman helped me get my mother back to the house over 300 ft away.]

Now I have a fullbred lab that will bark if an intruder shows up; and I've even seen him charge/attack a dog that managed to get onto our place...a dog small enough to go under the front gate. This lab will hunt and catch morning doves, moles and even squirrels. I do not consider this lab to be a watch/guard dog simply because he is more playful than I like in a guard dog, albeit I may be surprised one day. I consider this lab to be a "pet" more than a helper; whereas, when I finally manage to find the LGD I'm wanting, I will consider that dog a "helper" more than a pet.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

GSD's were actually used as perimeter dogs. The shepherd would bring the flock to a pasture, and the dog would pace the perimeter to keep the sheep out of the crops. He'd then take up the rear when the shepherd brought the sheep back home. These would be docile sheep, not half wild Scottish sheep. The sheep would follow the shepherd. 

This is why you want a collie if your sheep are all over the place and need to be brought together. The collie will gather the sheep and press them towards the shepherd. Some sheep stand far apart when together. Others, like Merino, are more "gregarious" and have been bred to stick together. Different terrains, different sheep, different styles.

A collie will protect the herd, but since the sheep are terrified of the dog, he can't really loaf about with them. You also don't want your herding dog to have a hard bite or they will bite the sheep to control them.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Terri said:


> A border Collie was bred to assist the shepherd, not guard the flock.
> 
> Border Collies are small. The shepherd can send it out in front of the flock to stop the flock cold, or send it after a particular sheep to remove it from the flock so the shepherd can see why it is limping or whatever.
> 
> A German Shepherd was bred to assist the shepherd in an area where there were wolves. A wolf is capable of killing and eating a smaller dog: a German Shepherd can defend itself as well as help with the sheep.


You are mistaken. GSDs (at least what we know as a GSD) were created in the 19th century long after wolves ceased to be a serious threat. Further a wolf produce significantly more bite force than a dog of the same size. the original GSD was smaller dog of about 45-60# on AVERAGE and exceptional ones up to 70. The north European strain of grey wolf is a similar size to Rocky Mountain timbers 50-90#. Most GSDs wouldn't stand a chance.


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## Barn Yarns (Oct 7, 2012)

Rottweilers date back to the years of the Romans and the Greeks. they were bred as herding and protection dogs for the army's cattle. altho i never have read what they were protecting the cattle from (man or beast)

names of breeds can be misleading. I have a Maremma Sheepdog and he is infact an LGD. he sorta does some herding.... but its of his own free will... and never bringing them home of course. however... he is a fantasic guardian! last summer he even learned of ravens being a threat. 

last week he alerted us to happenings of deer vs coyote in the horse pasture and kept things away from lambs in the sheep pasture less than 100 yards away. 

my border collie thinks she is supposed to be retired. so... the only thing she guards is the porch =)


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## WesleyDS (Feb 16, 2013)

Thank you all for clearing that up. Here is a question for you. Would a lgd make a good dog for bitework like a german shepherd, malinois, or doberman pinscer? Or does that take more of a prey drive? (not that I'm interested in getting one just curious)


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

LGDs have no prey drive. They don't chase cats, chickens, sheep...... They will watch you toss a ball, and lay there with no intention to ever chase it. They are protective of their charges. They protect their people and flock to the point of their own death. They are abnormally tolerant of children and young animals. Kids can lay on them, bite them, roll on them, but the dog will just lay there and lick the child once in a while. They just have unique personalities that most dogs do not possess. It's in the breeding.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

WesleyDS said:


> Thank you all for clearing that up. Here is a question for you. Would a lgd make a good dog for bitework like a german shepherd, malinois, or doberman pinscer?  Or does that take more of a prey drive? (not that I'm interested in getting one just curious)


Most any dog that can learn good obedience can be taught bite work. Some will treat it as a task to be done on demand, some will treat it as a game, some will do it as an instinctive task, and some few will recognize what it really is as preparation for what may come. Breeds as varied as patterdale, poodle, lab, golden, & Dane have all done bite work.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

WesleyDS said:


> Thank you all for clearing that up. Here is a question for you. Would a lgd make a good dog for bitework like a german shepherd, malinois, or doberman pinscer? Or does that take more of a prey drive? (not that I'm interested in getting one just curious)


An LGD would not do that. Thank God! You don't train LGDs. They just work by instinct. There is a reason they aren't in agility. They just don't have that desire to do tricks to please people.


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## WesleyDS (Feb 16, 2013)

They kind of sound like me. "I have no reason to fetch that ball. You threw it you go get it." I'm not built for agility either.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

WesleyDS said:


> Thank you all for clearing that up. Here is a question for you. Would a lgd make a good dog for bitework like a german shepherd, malinois, or doberman pinscer? Or does that take more of a prey drive? (not that I'm interested in getting one just curious)


 As a whole, No, can it be done, yeah, I met a few Kangels out of Mich that would have potential. I can also teach a weiner dog to lure course, once he leaves the gate we can go grab a sandwich, make a few phone calls, while he runs it. 
It is not what either of them have been bred to do, but it is not impossible!


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

Some breeds LGDs are meaner than others andolusions are much meaner than the pierionies as a rule . These dogs are bred as flock gaurdians .collies , english sheapards, healers are herders and can be made into farm dogs curs are great farm dogs they are dedicated to there owners .german shepards pinchers rotwillers have been bred for people (compaion and protection) so long they arn't much help with livestock but are now the bite work pros .


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## genuck (Aug 22, 2011)

WesleyDS said:


> Thank you all for clearing that up. Here is a question for you. Would a lgd make a good dog for bitework like a german shepherd, malinois, or doberman pinscer? Or does that take more of a prey drive? (not that I'm interested in getting one just curious)


 I have heard that Komondorok have been trained for this. The main problem is that these dogs don't really take orders, they decide what the job is and how to do it. So yeah, you could train it to bite someone, the two of you just might not agree when it comes time to let go...


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