# Border Collie or Blue Heeler?



## FarmerIvan

Which of these breeds are good family/farm dogs? In yalls experience, which one do you guys prefer and why? I'm considering either getting a collie or heeler for my farm. But want to know how they are if any of you guys have had em or do have em.


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## Ceilismom

That depends a little on what other animals you'll be keeping on your farm. I've known both breeds to kill free ranging chickens and chase cats. If you're looking for a dog to keep you company while you're working, these breeds are, IMO, a little too energetic and will get themselves into trouble. However, if you're needing a dog to help you manage sheep or cattle, either breed can be good for that. These are generalizations of course. You might find an individual dog of either breed that is OK with smaller animals, or that is worse than useless for working livestock.


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## MDKatie

In my experience, heelers can be very protective and unfriendly. If you have kids or other people come to your farm and want a friendly dog, I'd go with a border collie. Heelers can easily bond with just 1 person and not care for other people.


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## Maura

Border collies can also be unfriendly. They herd children and nip at them. You would need to work on this right from the get go. You need to train the dog, either breed, ASAP. They learn very fast and you would want them always learning proper behavior. We love our border collie.


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## notwyse

Australian Shepherd.


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## Guest

Akita. 
Does not care about other people. Fiercely protective of the family.
Be done breeding chirrens before getting an Akita. New babies are also invaders.


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## TedH71

There are two different distinct strains of heelers aka Australian Cattle dogs...when they were first imported, it was discovered much later that the imported dogs actually were half ACD half dingos! Turns out the person selling them to be imported to America thought it was a good idea to do the attempted cross again....those imported ACDs were not behaviorally similar to the purebred ACDs in Australia so the original people who imported them tried to track down the resulting offspring to put them down...they couldn't find them all but they did go back to Australia and got the purebred ones imported and those are the ones that are ironically AKC registered. I would go with the AKC registered ones or the ones that were recently imported. They can be extremely high energy but the border collies are the worst offenders. They DO need a job every day. Australian shepherds...most of them have had the herding instinct bred out of them but the old timey Aussies are smaller and much more aggressive on guarding property and yes, those can herd. I just don't want to deal with all that hair.


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## terradura

Consider the English Shepherd. Lower energy and less obsessive. A great all round family and farm dog. That is what they were bred for.


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## fixitguy

We live in-town and have a border collie. Yes, as a pup, she tried to heard the kids at the bus stop, and nipped at small children. bad behavior can be stopped.
She get's some time to run at the MIL's farm, and we have underground fencing, so she can be outside unattended.
Overall, I decided on the dog. We have a child with "high functioning autism", and the dog is the best thing ever.


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## terradura

fixitguy said:


> We live in-town and have a border collie. Yes, as a pup, she tried to heard the kids at the bus stop, and nipped at small children. bad behavior can be stopped.
> She get's some time to run at the MIL's farm, and we have underground fencing, so she can be outside unattended.
> Overall, I decided on the dog. We have a child with "high functioning autism", and the dog is the best thing ever.


That's a nice looking dog!


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## msscamp

FarmerIvan said:


> Which of these breeds are good family/farm dogs? In yalls experience, which one do you guys prefer and why? I'm considering either getting a collie or heeler for my farm. But want to know how they are if any of you guys have had em or do have em.


It depends on what you are looking for. If you want a companion dog, I would not suggest either one. We've had both over the years, and both of them are herding dogs with a pretty high level of energy, usually a pretty strong instinct to herd, and both need to have a job to keep them busy and out of trouble. Without a job, either breed can get bored and resort to chasing livestock or get into other kinds of trouble such as digging, destructiveness, excessive barking, etc.


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## AngusLover

Over the years we've had some of the best heelers we could have ever asked for. Extremely loyal and loving. Great with stranger but gladly guard the property when we're away. 
Border collies are great dogs but very high energy. That's the reason we chose heelers. They have great working drive but can be travel companions and house dogs with no problems on our down time. 
Good luck on your choice!


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## Cygnet

I've had experience with both breed and love both breeds. It boils down to the individual dog, honestly.

I would consider what you want the dog to do. If you're wanting a herding dog, either breed may work just fine. They have different herding styles, but both dogs are trainable. If you want a dog that will also run off small predators, I'd go with a _large _heeler -- heelers are more heavily muscled and have a bit more raw power in a fight with coyote, raccoon, or bobcat. 

(Heelers also have a notable lack of self preservation when their adrenaline starts pumping. The #1 cause of death for heelers is injury ... I have a heeler/aussie cross who would look like Frankenstein if you shaved her bald, because of all the scars she's got from various accidents and fights!)

Both breeds are VERY high energy, need job(s), are too smart for their own good, and can be a bit suspicious of strangers if not socialized properly. 

Heelers can also be very snappish, both with people and other dogs -- they're a lot like terriers in many ways, only with an added herding drive. They often don't do real well in a household with a lot of other dogs.


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## badlander

We must be lucky because we have both a heeler and a BC and they are both fantastic dogs.

I agree with Cygnet. ACDs are hard on themselves. I don't know how many times we have taken ours in for various stitches. They are strong willed, strong minded and all together just powerful, strong dogs. Ours used to chew through chain link to get at a rabbit he saw. That one was a trip to the vet for stitches in his face. He is also friendly, loving, loyal and dedicated, maybe an exception to what I have been reading here about the breed.

If you are running sheep or goats though, go with a BC. I have heard of instances from people in the know who tell me that they have had leg injuries on sheep and goats from using an ACD to herd them. Heelers do just that. They are bred to grab cows by the leg to get them to do what they want them to do and they will do the same with anything they are herding.

Our BC came to us abused and it took years to undo the damage done to her. She is still a little shy and submissive but is also a loving, dedicated dog who guards her home and family passionately.

Both animals are good with our house cats but agreed that they will chase one if outside.

Good luck with your choice. Like mentioned it's going to depend on what you are wanting to do with them.


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## FarmerIvan

Well I have a few head of cattle and sheep, it would be nice to have a dog that can herd em instead of trying to round up a herd myself. It gets pretty dangerous and scary at times. But I'm leaning towards heelers. They seem like good working and protective dogs. I like that fact that they'll fight off coyotes, and ***** since this time a year they are out lurking for easy prey.


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## Maura

For cattle consider a corgi. If you want a dog to fight off coyotes then get an aggressive LGD, not a herder. How many cattle have you lost to coyotes? I&#8217;m guessing none.


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## Cygnet

I should clarify --

If you have a serious predator problem, a LGD is a good idea.

My heeler-x-aussie and her buddy, a malinois mix, was more than sufficient to deal with coyotes (I had goats) for many years in an area with only the occasional coyote problem. Only time I lost animals was either when she was inside (the other dog had gone deaf at that point), or once to an attack from a pack of pits and GSDs and she made a mess of one of the pit bulls. She's now 12 and still leads the charge against raccoons. However, I do NOT recommend heelers as the sole protection against coyotes -- heelers are tough and they'll fight to the death for you, but they're not an overly large dog. You'll eventually end up with a dead dog or a large vet bill if the local coyote population is large and used to dealing with dogs.

A big heeler is around fifty pounds of solid muscle. They are not always that big -- the females often aren't much bigger than 25-30 pounds. Fifty pounds is enough to make a few coyotes think twice, but a dog that size won't win in a fight with a pack of bigger dogs, or against a large pack of coyotes that have learned to hunt dogs. A little 25 pound female isn't big enough to hold her own against a coyote, and would have a hard time with one of our resident 30-40 pound raccoons!

They are pretty useful for cattle, it's what they were bred to do. 

Sheep ... maybe. Depends on the dog. I wouldn't hesitate to ask my own heeler-x to work sheep at this point in her life. However, she's an older, very experienced, dog who's not likely to bite. Some heelers can be REALLY mouthy.

Training is a huge part of it. 

We put our animals up in a solid steel barn before dark here because we have some serious predator issues. (The dogs just aren't enough around here.) After years of working together, I trust Cassidy to go round the chickens up _by herself _while I'm in the barn with the goats. She gets them out from underneath my trailer and wherever else they're hiding and runs them all into the barn in small groups -- she knows where they belong, how to get them moving, and I really don't need to say anything to her beyond an initial, "Get the chickens!" 

However, when I first got her, she killed several chickens. Heelers are TOUGH dogs and she was an enthusiastic, inexperienced, puppy. It took training and time and guidance from me for her to learn how to work chickens without hurting them.

I guess what I'm saying is that don't get a heeler and expect it to fight off a pack of a dozen coyotes -- it can't. And you WILL need to do a lot of training.

(The other dog, by the way, to look at is a catahoula. They're tough, they'll deal with rank cattle without a problem, and they are a lot faster than a heeler. You still have the same issue with sheep, though -- they may be too rough on the sheep.)


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## billinwv

Believe it or not the best farm dog I have ever had was a standard poodle. Yes a poodle. She would get between anything and me that was threating. Copperhead, stallion in a bad mood, milk cow throwing a fit. She was there on the money. Smartest dog I have ever seen. A little brushing and clipping but well worth it. She was mature when I got her as a rescue from distant family (you have a farm you can ....) 10 minutes and we were inseparable.


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## Cygnet

billinwv said:


> Believe it or not the best farm dog I have ever had was a standard poodle. Yes a poodle. She would get between anything and me that was threating. Copperhead, stallion in a bad mood, milk cow throwing a fit. She was there on the money. Smartest dog I have ever seen. A little brushing and clipping but well worth it. She was mature when I got her as a rescue from distant family (you have a farm you can ....) 10 minutes and we were inseparable.


I love standard poodles. 

Poodles were a working gun dog. People tend to forget this, but there are quite a few that retain many of their instincts and are still rugged, athletic dogs under all the hair. 

The grooming would drive me nuts, though ...

I absolutely love aussies, but I'd be very selective about any aussie I owned for the very same reason. Grooming issues! We had an aussie when I was growing up who had a pretty thick coat, and it took bathing her about weekly and regular sessions with a brush and blow dryer to keep that coat tamed. Otherwise, she matted up terribly and shed all over the place. 

(There are still working aussies in Arizona that have a border collie-like coat, but they're getting harder and harder to find. People breed for tons of hair, and it looks good, but it's really not practical for a working dog in an hot desert environment where there's cactus and burrs everywhere.) 

Heelers, you just aim a hose at occasionally.


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## MullersLaneFarm

I've owned various farm dogs, Border Collies, Aussies, ACD and English Shepherds. I highly suggest an English Shepherd.

ES are not as 'intense' or hyper (BC) as the other breeds. They love people and have natural herding instincts. Some good ES lines include BeeBe, Cedar Creek, Egertsen & Anderson


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## wendle

FarmerIvan said:


> Well I have a few head of cattle and sheep, it would be nice to have a dog that can herd em instead of trying to round up a herd myself. It gets pretty dangerous and scary at times. But I'm leaning towards heelers. They seem like good working and protective dogs. I like that fact that they'll fight off coyotes, and ***** since this time a year they are out lurking for easy prey.


If you are looking for a gathering dog, make sure you see that both parents have gather. Most heelers I've seen are heeling dogs, that would drive or push through smaller areas, but not bring stock in from larger fields. Corgis tend to be drivers as well. Kelpies and border collies will gather as well as drive. They will often head and heel both, preferring controlling the head. Most of the herding breeds will offer companionship, warning, and some protection. With training they can be taught when it's time to work and when it isn't. I regularly take my border collies with me for chores, farm work, traveling, or whatever. No matter what breed you choose, be sure to watch both parents work and make sure they can do the job you will expect your pup to eventually do. 

Here's a video of one of my border collies gathering cows from a smaller field, bringing them through a gate, then across a smaller pen, into a larger field. The dog in the video is also a personal companion, house dog, travel buddy, and will bark at strangers. At 50lbs though I don't think he would fair well against a coyote attack. 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnzBYdyVbnU[/ame]


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## wendle

Here's a video of a pup I'm training at 10 months old on cows. She's a good example of natural gather and stock feel. You can see how she gives the cows a little space and is not right on top of them. When she changes directions she squares off on her path of travel, as she is aware of the flight zone. When she is pushing the cows she will get closer of course. She will heel and head, but prefers to control the heads. At her age I don't leave her unattended around stock, but will take her along traveling and farm work to get her used to just hanging out and teaching her basic rules. 
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7m744P4AW8[/ame]

For more videos of a variety of cattle working dogs(different breeds too) try looking on Facebook "Cattle Dogs Only". This is a group for buying and selling cattle working dogs. So many herding breeds are now bred for pets, often not being capable of getting a real job done, so it's a great group to find dogs that are actually bred for work.


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## wendle

This is what you don't want. She looks pretty keen to work, but notice she is right on top of the sheep, not really giving them any space to settle and make good choices. She splits the sheep up towards the end. Training is important of course too, but the more natural talent the dog has the easier training will be. 

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1675240636963&l=3453036825680158620


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## aart

billinwv said:


> Believe it or not the best farm dog I have ever had was a standard poodle. Yes a poodle. She would get between anything and me that was threating. Copperhead, stallion in a bad mood, milk cow throwing a fit. She was there on the money. Smartest dog I have ever seen. A little brushing and clipping but well worth it. She was mature when I got her as a rescue from distant family (you have a farm you can ....) 10 minutes and we were inseparable.





Cygnet said:


> I love standard poodles.
> 
> Poodles were a working gun dog. People tend to forget this, but there are quite a few that retain many of their instincts and are still rugged, athletic dogs under all the hair.
> 
> The grooming would drive me nuts, though ....


Just cut it all off every 2-3 months! It does take about 3-4 hours to do tho and you might have to keep their ear hairs plucked inside.
Rascal was a rescue and sick at 6 months, someone dumped a whole litter, and he is on the small side for a standard.


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## aoconnor1

I love Standard Poodles, too! What great dogs


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## FarmerIvan

Made my decision on a Heeler. I am loving this little pup. She's so adorable and already protective with me. This pic is of her a few months ago, she's a little taller and heavier now.


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## aoconnor1

Very nice little pup! Good choice


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