# will beneficial nematodes reproduce?



## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

How prevalent are beneficial nematodes in the soil already? I am considering buying a few million (mix) of beneficial nematodes this year. Has anyone here ever used them effectively? Will they survive the winter and be back to reproduce or do I have to start over again next year?


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## catdance62 (Dec 7, 2008)

I've also wondered about their effectiveness. I am trying to go all organic this year and need all the info I can gather!


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

We have this video...

I'm kidding!


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

Like others, I'm still wondering this also.
Evidentally, the bad guys in the soil reproduce, sooo Do the good guys? They're pretty expensive to buy each year. I' m wondering, because I can't grow root crops without root worms, or some such nasty varmint tunneling into the roots.


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## JMJones0424 (Jan 2, 2009)

This is just based on my experience, so it may or may not apply to your situation.

I started off gardening almost fifteen years ago using standard slow release fertilizers and seven dust or other typical pesticides for pests. After a few years I decided I didn't want to use pesticides anymore and struggled to grow anything due to the onslaught of pests. For the better part of five years I spent money on insecticidal soaps, neem oils, orange oils, lady bugs, and all other "organic" pest controls. I was using the same pest control methods, but with inferior (although safer for me) devices and failing.

I finally stopped using chemical fertilizers, and focused on building up organic content in the soil. I focused on companion planting by interspersing radishes, garlic, onion, cilantro, and marigolds. I have beds of wildflowers interspersed throughout the garden. I have stopped having major pest problems, as the soil is no longer being sterilized by chemical fertilizers and the food source for beneficials (pests) are not immediately destroyed anymore. I do still see an aphid breakout occasionally, and cabbage and squash caterpillars do pop up every once in a while, but the beneficials take care of them in no time. The only things that I really don't want any insect damage on are leafy greens, and I grow these separately in an unheated greenhouse with insect netting using hydroponics, so they are always pristine.

So, to make a long story short, I think it is difficult, if not impossible, to completely eliminate pests using organic control methods unless you entirely isolate the plant like I have done with my greens. Otherwise, maintain healthy soil and give the beneficials a chance to consume the pests, a place to live (and overwinter), and only treat plants that are suffering from a large attack, or plants that you can't allow any insect damage to occur.

I have never purchased beneficial nematodes, however I have not had a root nematode problems in nearly ten years. I also rotate crops so that no annual grows in the same place more than one year out of every four years.

The only thing I use on a regular basis is spinosad for fire ants, as they eat everything and nothing eats them.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

mamagoose said:


> How prevalent are beneficial nematodes in the soil already? I am considering buying a few million (mix) of beneficial nematodes this year. Has anyone here ever used them effectively? Will they survive the winter and be back to reproduce or do I have to start over again next year?


The beneficial nematodes will not survive. They are truly suicidal. Once they are done with whatever they are eating on, the larva look around for more of the same to start over. If nothing is found, the life cycle ends at that point. That's why it is not a one-time inoculation. 

Martin


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

Martin,
Not the answer I was hoping for, but doesn't surprise me. Thanks so much.

JMJ,
I haven't used chemical-types in this garden for eons. The orchard is not in enriched soil and I have a ton of pests there. Maybe sowing cover crops in there would help? Due to cabbage worms in my enriched garden, I'm going to give in and only plant for early and late broccoli and cauliflower this year. Even though rotating helps the soil, I don't think it fools the moth laying her eggs. My next worse enemy is probably the vine borer and I never see them coming until it's too late. Mort on the Magic Garden show said to put collars around the vines since they lay eggs at the base of the main stem? Anyone tried that? We started a new patch last summer and put winter squash and pumpkins there and the late summer bugs came in hoards. I saw a difference between that patch and when we've had winter squash in an enriched soil patch. I'm guessing you just try and pick some of those off? Fish oil solution works pretty good in the greenhouse on the aphids, but it's pretty much any every other day chore.

I might still try the beneficial nematodes this year to see if there are any dramatic changes.

Thanks,
mamagoose


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Yes, I have seen a number of gardeners try the tin foil wrap around pumpkin and squash vines. Of course, it's always after their vines have been attacked. Then, about the time that the plants recover from the first moth, a second one comes along to lay an egg just beyond the foil wrapper.

By the way, a single vine borer moth is able to service a half acre. Lots and lots of eggs but only lays one or two per vine. 

Martin


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## JMJones0424 (Jan 2, 2009)

I don't know if this is appropriate in your area, but I used to use trichogramma wasps when I had bad caterpillar problems, I use Bt now as a spot treatment or manual removal. The wasps are only parasitic to the eggs, so once they hatch, you must use a spray.

Aphids in the greenhouse are especially troublesome as they are usually isolated from beneficials that would normally control them. Have you looked into finding resistant strains for use in the greenhouse?


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

Paquebot said:


> By the way, a single vine borer moth is able to service a half acre. Lots and lots of eggs but only lays one or two per vine.




Thanks for making my day.


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

JMJones0424 said:


> I don't know if this is appropriate in your area, but I used to use trichogramma wasps when I had bad caterpillar problems, I use Bt now as a spot treatment or manual removal. The wasps are only parasitic to the eggs, so once they hatch, you must use a spray.
> 
> Aphids in the greenhouse are especially troublesome as they are usually isolated from beneficials that would normally control them. Have you looked into finding resistant strains for use in the greenhouse?


Every year I say I'll try the Bt. Maybe it will finally be this year.

resistant strains of ?


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## JMJones0424 (Jan 2, 2009)

Sometimes, rather than repeatedly beating your head against a wall, it's better to move the wall.

I don't know what you are growing in your greenhouse, but here is a link to a study done in California on aphid resistance in different varieties of lettuce.
http://www.rgvhortsociety.org/SPSJ/v58 2006/SPSJ 58 26-28 Bi & Toscano.pdf

I have found aphids in my region love the variety of okra I grow. But, the aphids don't eat the fruit, and they provide a food source for the beneficials without causing to much damage to the fast growing okra, so I keep that variety of okra growing. But if I were to grow it in a gh, I would look for a different variety. Other than this particular variety, any aphid infestation on the plants I grow is usually indicative of an unhealthy plant. Is it possible that humidity is too high in your greenhouse, and this is contributing to your aphid outbreaks? Do you also have fungal problems in the gh?

If you can contain them in the gh, ladybugs are voracious aphid eaters.

What were you planning to control using the beneficial nematodes?


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

All kinds of grubs from what I've read.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

JMJones0424 said:


> I don't know if this is appropriate in your area, but I used to use trichogramma wasps when I had bad caterpillar problems, I use Bt now as a spot treatment or manual removal. The wasps are only parasitic to the eggs, so once they hatch, you must use a spray.
> 
> Aphids in the greenhouse are especially troublesome as they are usually isolated from beneficials that would normally control them. Have you looked into finding resistant strains for use in the greenhouse?


I've used trichogramma wasps in the past w/GREAT success! That's why my screen name is 'Tricky Grama'. 
They wiped out the inch worms (canker worms) & bag worms too.

Patty- I YAM the tricky grama!


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