# Mission Impossible, Ideal State/Area



## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

Ok, I am about to be 27 years old and debt free this summer(vehicle is the only thing left), am going to be looking for land to start my homestead. I know this question has been asked a million times but what are your opinions of the ideal area/state to locate to. I have been watching other concerns/problems and figuring out what I want.

1. I am looking for lax or no rules/regs/codes/ect. because I am going to start living in a camper/tent/shed and build myself as I go. 
2. Needs fertile soil for a garden without constant addmendments, more variety of plants able to be grown the better. Corn/wheat/tomatoes/beans
3. Water preferably a spring/creek, maybe some public lakes/rivers/ocean for fishing nearby(@10 miles max) Well drillable(without drilling to china) although not in a flood plain. If I got flooded it would kill me. So there would have to be 0% chance!
4. Get cold enough to kill off the garden bugs in the winter although not cold enough to worry about my tomatoes freezing in June. Frankly I hate winter but it does have some benefits. I currently live in NW Ohio and wouldn't want any colder. Not too hot either though. I've lived in Daytona Beach,FL and that climate isn't too hot although I wouldn't want any warmer.
5. Hills are good to a point. Drainage/windblock ect. although some mountains are too steep. Lived outside of Morgantown, WV and it was very hilly but still managable in most spots, wouldn't want much worse. Don't want to have my ears pop driving up my driveway...lol
6. 1-10 acres preferably around 5. I'm a single guy, only need a small house, farm, barn, shed, few chickens, cows and other usuals. Should have some lumber/firewood timber too. The entire lot could be wooded as I would need lumber for building. 
7. Hunting gathering Ability to hunt deer and maybe turkey would be good, although not needed. Ability to use rifles would also be nice. Wild berries/fruit would also be nice. 
I LOVE ORANGES,peaches,apples. 
8. Preferably East of the Mississippi, dunno why (maybe family/friends) but I have always lived out East but willing to be flexible.
9. not in or real close to a city/town. They are always annexxing new properties and imposing rules and taxes. Although less than 30-40 minutes away. Still need to shop/work without burning a tank of gas. I like the cities for retail/culture variety. Lived in Ellicott City,MD (outside of Baltimore) and liked it,close to shops/stores/restaurants(jobs) and a big city for more variety.
10. Low cost of property and taxes. 5-10acres<$20-$30k taxes<$1k/yr since once i get established i would like to make a living off the farm or online.
11. Maybe low or no income/sales tax, although most of those states have high property taxes. Low property tax is more important than income/sales.
12. Prefer an Open carry firearm state, If needed I don't want to have to register and pay Uncle Sam for my right to carry a pistol on my side or vehicle.
13. Low vehicle insurance/registrations, also no emission inspection states. If I wanna run with my check engine light on I should have the right to. 

I know that alot of these criteria will only apply once I find a state/area but what are your opinions, on states or areas, or my list. I am even thinking of overseas but still haven't given up hope for the U.S. so preferably here but open to suggestions.


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## rockhound (Sep 25, 2009)

I can see you want what a lot of folks do, good luck on finding a place with all of it. 
Good garden soil does need amendments every year. If you neglect putting anything in while taking stuff out, well it shouldn't be too hard to see where that'll get you.


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

Well of course I would constantly be adding compost/mulch but I can't wait years on end to buildup pure clay or lower the acidity. Can't afford to haul in topsoil either. That is unless land is going for $200/acre or something. I am very flexible and these are just general criteria, one plus may outweigh a minus. I am open to any suggestions to add or take off my list. Since most of you have already been though all this I am trying to pick your brains pretty much.


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## vahighlander (Feb 10, 2010)

Your criteria contradict each other at times....you need to pick the few things that are most important to you. No place will be without cons. There is no "perfect" spot. You want cheap property, no rules, regs, taxes, freewheeling firearms ordinances, close to Baltimore sized/ type cities?? Your young- and I know your learning so - pick your poisons. Do you want to be a freewheeling self sustainable type homesteader? - or just to the point that your not too far away from a good Mocha Latte?


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

Yea i know i still need to prioritize and there won't ever be a "perfect" place but I am planning on buying this piece of property to live on the rest of my life so I want to make sure its what I want and not regret it afterwards.

I still have a long way to go but Kentucky or Missouri are starting to look pretty good, and if I can find a rural place near a big city (looking like 1 hr more reasonable) I could still have the best of both worlds.Although most are expensive :-/

I would still like to go further south for the climate though I would have quite a few downsides.


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## SweetwaterClyde (Aug 12, 2009)

I drove through Stockton, California the other day. Very promising place for small gardening! The gangs will literally till your soil up with their drivebys. The only downside is that your crops will probably get trampled by the hordes of illegal aliens and homeless people. But cheap, cheap, cheap!! Great place for diversity and multiculturalism! Every modern liberal should really look into going to this lovely place! You will just love it! It is just one more social program away from being saved. I would buy there quick before word gets out.


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

I'll bet the soil isn't lacking any lead either....lol

I am going to remove the east of the mississippi requirement too....if my family wants to visit they will have to fly...lol


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## gypsymama (Feb 22, 2006)

Having an available water source was always a priority for us.

I'd read and research all I could about what makes healthy soil, how to maintain healthy soil, how to read the weeds on any land you are considering because they can tell you a lot about the soil on the property.

And as you stated earlier, try to prioritize most important to least important on your list. These may change as you start investigating further. Every state is going to have pros and cons. 

The one thing that I couldn't help but wonder about is do your expectations include only yourself? What happens when you meet that women of your dreams? What happens when children make their appearance? Do you foresee more family contact or less in the future? Right now your a single guy and it's just you, but that can change so also think about where you might be in 5 yrs, 10 yrs, 20 yrs.

I think property taxes are a good thing to consider, too.

Good luck with your search.


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

gypsymama said:


> Having an available water source was always a priority for us.


Yea that is a priority, although that is found in 90% of the areas. Once I narrow down an area I can find an appropiate peice of land.



gypsymama said:


> The one thing that I couldn't help but wonder about is do your expectations include only yourself? What happens when you meet that women of your dreams? What happens when children make their appearance? Do you foresee more family contact or less in the future? Right now your a single guy and it's just you, but that can change so also think about where you might be in 5 yrs, 10 yrs, 20 yrs.


Yea, right now I'm single but not ruling out a woman in the future. Not trying to have kids though. This world is overpopulated as it is and cannot support the population increases. After that being said I do know the unexpected can happen and opinions change :frypan:


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## DENALI (Mar 25, 2008)

In regards to gardening.... www.gardeningrevolution.com


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## SweetwaterClyde (Aug 12, 2009)

Its where you find it. I would concentrate my efforts on MO and AR myself. Not too many people who want government breathing down their necks there and the minorities all speak English and don't spray paint grandmas fence every Friday night (racist pig!). If a place is too pretty it is bound to already be messed up by big city types that come to the country and end up changing it to the city with their ignorant brats and BMW's (Barbarian Manure Wagons). These people cannot help but fug everything up, it is in their DNA. The middle flyover country is where its at. And I'm stuck out here in California!!! Have mercy, have mercy!!!


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Your probably going to have be a bit farther than an hour out away from a major city (200k plus) before you start getting away from BS regulations. Just seems like as soon as you get within commuting distance of a large city there are a ton of regs. Another thing, the areas with the cheapest land tend be the areas with the least amount of restrictions. But areas with cheap land tend to have them in large tracts. There are places I've seen with operational farms that are 1000 dollars per acre with the buildings. My goal is to farm full-time so whether or not an area has a good job market will be irrelevant for me, just has to be cheap and good soil/climate. Might be something to think about on your quest, no one lays off farmers.


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

PhilJohnson said:


> Your probably going to have be a bit farther than an hour out away from a major city (200k plus) before you start getting away from BS regulations. Just seems like as soon as you get within commuting distance of a large city there are a ton of regs. Another thing, the areas with the cheapest land tend be the areas with the least amount of restrictions. But areas with cheap land tend to have them in large tracts. There are places I've seen with operational farms that are 1000 dollars per acre with the buildings. My goal is to farm full-time so whether or not an area has a good job market will be irrelevant for me, just has to be cheap and good soil/climate. Might be something to think about on your quest, no one lays off farmers.


True, farm for profit along with for sustenance is a good idea. Although You still need a market for your goods. I really do not want to do a massive mono product farm. There's alot to think about, I'm glad I am starting early. I would love to do a u-pick or CSA although you will need to have a market in the area. More research to be done.:kung:


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

It's definitely a balancing act between price and options. I'm thinking along the same lines as you are now. A place close enough to market what I grow/raise/make but not so close to large population centers as to be cost prohibitive.

Right now I'm lightly considering southern OH because that's where I was born but that's not a good enough reason IMO.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

blooba said:


> True, farm for profit along with for sustenance is a good idea. Although You still need a market for your goods. I really do not want to do a massive mono product farm.


Most of the time when there is an established farm there has to be a near by place that will buy what you grow. But then your sorta limited to what you can grow to sell. My observation is the closer one is to a larger city the better the market is for small scale variety farming. When I was out in Portland Oregon there was a huge demand for local organic food grown from small (10 acre or less) farms. But the price of land was outrageous (350,000 for a small 5 acre parcel and house). 

Another not so scientific observation of mine is the less trees there are the less of other homesteader types and less people interested in small farm produce. At least in my travels of Wisconsin and Minnesota there is a bigger demand and opportunity for small scale farming in the more northward and more forested regions of those states. Out in the plains states there wasn't much demand for that. Partly from the sparse population, partly because most of the folks who live there have little money and aren't willing pay much for anything.

I guess if you don't plan on selling much and are homesteading for yourself I suppose market demand won't matter very much. It is nice to be around other folks doing similar things. Where I live I am very much an anomaly in how I live, but elsewhere I would fit right in. As a single dude I have found that it is hard to find people to do stuff with and relate to when everyone else's lifestyles are so different. Sometimes I think it would be nicer to find a place where people's interest are more aligned with my own.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Kansas is a good place, but many counties (including mine) have very strict zoning and building codes.

Missouri has the same good soil over most of it, but the zoning is often less strict, I think.

Actually, at this time the BEST state is where you can find a job!!!!!!!!


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

Terri said:


> Actually, at this time the BEST state is where you can find a job!!!!!!!!


How true, but (luckily or unfortunately) I won't be finding/buying this piece of land for at least a year. Wish I could now but am glad I am researching now and in no rush. As long as I can financially afford to wait :teehee: bank account is shrinking faster than it grows.


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## Ceres Hil (Aug 13, 2008)

some parts of Western Washington:
Lewis County
Thurston Cty

no income tax
yes on sales tax
you will not be able to purchase land that cheap, but may find someone who needs a manager....


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

You've got a great list there. I wish I had such a well considered list at 27........

I think others have said this and I believe it is true...you need to spend some time prioritizing the wants on your list. Consider which are "gotta haves" (better only be a few of those), then the "really nice to haves", then the pipe dreams.

Find a couple areas with your "gotta haves". Then apply your "really nice to haves" to whittle the list down, and so on. Pretty soon (in my case, 20 years or so!) you will have figured out where you ought to be concentrating your search.

But first, you have to figure out what your non-negotiables are. And those can certainly change over time. I know mine have. If I had bought land 20 years ago, I would be looking to sell it now because my wife could not handle northern Wisconsin any more. 

Good luck with the search. Hunting is half the fun.


Tim


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

tarbe said:


> And those can certainly change over time. I know mine have. If I had bought land 20 years ago, I would be looking to sell it now because my wife could not handle northern Wisconsin any more.
> 
> Tim


Yea, thats what I'm trying to think of also, as time goes on the cold weather won't be as easy to handle. I'm even starting to 2nd guess being even that close to a big city also. In 20+ yrs IF we have another construction boom those cities & suburbias will be growing out even further. Although if we have a bust being near a city would be good.

If you look at failed Russia the people lived in the cities for basic amenities and went to the country everyday for food and firewood.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

blooba,

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm moving from MN and this thread has me thinking about how to find a state and area.

Is NW Ohio flat, treeless and pretty windy? That's what it looks like from the sites I've visited. I may want to take another run at fish farming in a better state so that would dictate where I could relocate.


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

fishhead said:


> Is NW Ohio flat, treeless and pretty windy? .


Yea, you pretty much nailed it right on the head. There are some trees in my area but just small bunches between the fields, not enough to cut the wind. SE Ohio is alot better with more rolling hills and trees.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Thanks.

Maybe I can find a small valley surrounded by forest because I really like being in the woods.


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

fishhead said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Maybe I can find a small valley surrounded by forest because I really like being in the woods.


Any valleys in NW Ohio(Black Swamp) flood so be careful on buying lowland. Dunno about other parts of Ohio.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

If you want to carry and shoot, you will probably need to look at least a little west of the Mississippi, unless you want to go as far north as Vermont. VA is in the process of developing 2A friendly legislation, though. Check out usconcealedcarry.com or gunowners.com.

Some parts of TN have good summers/mild winters, but again, I don't know about how they are about the Constitution.

As others have noted, make sure you get a place with water. And (my biggest concern): no easements.


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## txquilter (Dec 29, 2009)

Well, you have compiled a pretty great list in my opinion. I think if we could "have it all" every one of those items would be on our lists.

Texas has no state income tax, has strong beliefs about the Constitution and pretty good land in certain parts. I've been doing a lot of land searches recently in Texas and find that property in East Texas is cheaper than North Texas or the Hill Country (Austin area). You can also find cheaper property Northwest of the Houston area.

East Texas is known as the "Piney Woods" and has some of the biggest and most beautiful pine trees I've ever seen. Several lakes out that way so you might want to take a look.

While we still don't have an open carry law on the books I do know that there is a group in Austin that is proposing it and hopes to get it on the docket soon.

Good luck in your searches and keep us posted!


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

What parts of TX have tillable land? I did some traveling down between Corpus Christi and Houston and it was all pretty much desert. I did spend some time in Dallas too but it was just in the city, couldn't tell soil conditions under the blacktop. Would you say Houston to Dallas and east is alright for gardening?


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

We like MO quite a bit (except that it's been really cold here in the far NW corner the past two Winters). There's a spread of 3 USDA planting zones, so check it out.

Very constitution-friendly. Open carry is legal, cc is by permit.

Soil here is gorgeous, but of course, you have to put in at least as much as you take out.


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## travisn (Dec 3, 2013)

Bump this thread. I'm 27 now with a year left of school (went back, mech engineering). Plan is to be debt free with 100 acres by 30. Your list is basically the exact one I'd create, except I don't mind the cold and I want 2-3 kids. 

How are things coming along? any updates?


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

Wow, I totally forgot about this thread. I love finding old threads and seeing how things have changed and what the outcome was so I guess this thread does need an update.

Well, Since then I did move from OH to MD for work. (Gotta love the economy) Although in the meantime I have purchased 5 acres in TN. It is about an hour north of Nashville, outside of Clarksville. Now that I look back it actually meets most of my criteria. Beginning Feb. 1st I have finally got the job transfer in Clarksville and have rented an apartment in Clarksville for the time being. 

The 5 acres is fully wooded with a seasonal stream that I would like to develop a little better and (depending on water flow) dam up and create a small pond.(Long term plan)
The property is off a chip and tar road.(Almost a dirt road) and I plan on leaving a buffer zone along the road, slowly replacing those trees with berry bushes and fruit trees. Semi clear out the trees in the middle (appr. 2 acres) and that is where I plan on placing the house and leaving the back few acres wild. (Maybe clear out some undergrowth eventually)

I think I did post some pictures of the property back when I bought it although I have had a few setbacks since this thread I feel I am still on course to complete my dream. I will warn you, 100 acres is a mighty ambitious goal and will require a decent amount of money but if you set your mind to it anything is possible.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Pony said:


> We like MO quite a bit (except that it's been really cold here in the far NW corner the past two Winters). There's a spread of 3 USDA planting zones, so check it out.
> 
> Very constitution-friendly. Open carry is legal, cc is by permit.
> 
> Soil here is gorgeous, but of course, you have to put in at least as much as you take out.


Glad you resurrected this one, Blooba, and glad to read your update.

Four years later, we're now in South Central MO, and while we've had a rough Winter, the winds are far more mild, and Zone 6 is much more to my liking.

The soil is different down here. THere are rocks. LOL! But it's still good soil, when you get the blocks out.


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

blooba, I think what you need is an old guy or couple to move in with and learn from them. Work out an agreement you could either buy them out later or get free board and room in exchange for work. 

This way you could learn to garden in the area and countless other things you only learn by doing. Then later when you start on your own you'll won't be making the mistakes others have made and be more assured of making it work. You could even work while there to build up a nice nest egg for later use.


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

Well another nice thing about my property is that I have an old timer as a next door neighbor that has lived in the area all his life and he's pretty like minded and knows all the locals. So I'm sure i'll be relying on him for tips and advice from time to time.


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

DW and I have enough of savings that some sort of land purchase could be justified, but are getting older and with her mom needing our day by day attention actually relocating can't be in the picture. That said, I've been playing a lot of "what if" mind games doing Lands of America and Zillow and such searches to see what sorts of self-sustainable properties might be available and at what prices, etc. I lived in the SE a lot earlier (FL, NC, TN) and would say good small rural properties may be uncommon to my mind mainly due to the widespread cotton plantation history in the region. Cotton has destroyed soil through the area making vast portions burnt-out red clay covered now with scraggly piney woods. Get outside of the old Confederacy locations and you start finding more smaller home plots that have continuously had good soil and mature hardwoods. We have some friends in a small town in SE Kansas so I've looked online a lot in that area and would say E KS over east into Missouri and N Arkansas has good potential. Very recently, I extended the online tours into the KY area and was very surprised at a number of places on the market seeming to have likely decent soil, water, 10-20+ acres attached to at least liveable buildings, generally if going out 30+ miles or so from Louisville and Lexington. My suspicion is that those sorts of places are on the market a bit more now since that's major "horse country" but with higher feed prices many folks are finding keeping horses as livestock to be too expensive a hobby or indulgence. My family is actually from that general area and my dad bought a small farm back in the 50s but had to abandon the idea after a year or so of finding he didn't have enough cash crop potential on 100 acres to support a family. Anyway, TN north of Nashville seems very much the same sort of climate and soil, so maybe you've found a similar on-ground setup with better state and local tax and regulatory climate, not actually sure what the point-by-point comparisons are for TN vs KY and then MO and KS. I ran a business out of TN for a couple of decades very comfortably, but the actual sales and income were from wholesaling sales in other states.


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## travisn (Dec 3, 2013)

blooba said:


> I will warn you, 100 acres is a mighty ambitious goal and will require a decent amount of money but if you set your mind to it anything is possible.


less than a grand an acre is what I've been looking at, definitely doable.

what are your plans once you move to TN? as of now I think I am going to get the land then put a travel trailer or the like on the property to save up for a barn/garage then a house.


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

travisn said:


> less than a grand an acre is what I've been looking at, definitely doable.
> 
> what are your plans once you move to TN? as of now I think I am going to get the land then put a travel trailer or the like on the property to save up for a barn/garage then a house.


Yea, I'm gonna stay in the apartment until I get a driveway done, a well and septic put in then either throw a trailer up there or build a shed to live in while I work on the house. It will take me a little time but hopefully Once I leave this moneypit called Maryland things will start going a little faster on the money front.


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## travisn (Dec 3, 2013)

alright well be sure to update this thread! I've got 12 months till graduation then I am out of NY for good.

Then real life starts...


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