# Confused - CD&T vs CDT antitoxin?



## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Someone please clear up my misunderstanding?

For as long as I've raised goats, I've innoculated with BarVac (brand) CD/T. The vial reads "Clostridium Perfringens Types C & D - Tetanus Toxoid". It's basically the brand available where I purchase feed & supplies. So far, so good, eh?

From time to time I see a thread concerning a current case of enterotoxemia, and the owner is advised to administer CDT anti-toxin. Have I got that right?

I have searched, and do not find the anti-toxin at the feed store(s) I frequent, and am not sure I understand the difference. IS there a difference? Can someone enlighten me? Is the anti-toxin available on prescription only?

Thanks in advance,
NeHi


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## betsy h. (Sep 28, 2008)

C&D anti-toxin is usually available at feed stores that carry vaccine- TSC usually has it in stock- it comes in a 250 ml bottle and is used in case of emergency because of goat getting into grain bin, etc. It can be given orally as well as sub-cue and the protectin lasts 10 days. Dose is about 10ml per goat, but can be as much as is necessary - maybe 30ml- in case of immediate need to save the goat's life.

CD&T is for long term protection- it is given as a series of doses, usually at about a 3ml per dose. Generally comes in a few different sizes- cow size doses- 10 dose, 50 dose vials. This is what you give to kids as part of their regular baby shots.

All vaccines need to stay cold- NEVER frozen- in the refrigerator, Jeffers usually has all these in their catalog-


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## PNP Katahdins (Oct 28, 2008)

My understanding is that the usual CT-T toxoid is for prevention and antitoxin is for immediate need. Think about the difference in having a tetanus booster every 10 years vs. getting a puncture wound and needing a protective tetanus shot ASAP. The vaccine chart at the Maryland Small Ruminant website says antitoxin is good for 7-14 days.

Peg


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Thank you for all the replies. So, to put it in my own words, let's see if I understand: C&D ANTITOXIN is what's needed for immediate protection. (In case goats have gotten into the grain storage, say.) Did I use the correct name? Did I spell it right?

Thanks!

NeHi


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

PNP Katahdins, thank you for the link. Very informative, and I've bookmarked the page.

NeHi


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## Idahoe (Feb 4, 2006)

You got it right!! I think of them as the "antitoxin" and the "vaccine" to keep them straight in my head.

The antitoxin lasts in their system for a week or so, the vaccine lasts for about a year, though some re-boost their goats every six months or so. I do it once a year, two shots three weeks apart starting at one month old (along with a dose of antitoxin).


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

betsy h. said:


> C&D anti-toxin is usually available at feed stores that carry vaccine- TSC usually has it in stock- it comes in a 250 ml bottle and is used in case of emergency because of goat getting into grain bin, etc. It can be given orally as well as sub-cue and the protectin lasts 10 days. Dose is about 10ml per goat, but can be as much as is necessary - maybe 30ml- in case of immediate need to save the goat's life.
> 
> CD&T is for long term protection- it is given as a series of doses, *usually at about a 3ml per dose*. Generally comes in a few different sizes- cow size doses- 10 dose, 50 dose vials. This is what you give to kids as part of their regular baby shots.
> 
> All vaccines need to stay cold- NEVER frozen- in the refrigerator, Jeffers usually has all these in their catalog-


My goat-notes say 2mL (2cc) subq at day 45 in kids and again in 20 days. then once a year. This came from dairygoatinfo I believe. That has been my routine. Where is the 3mL info?
thanks.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

LaMancha Paul, I think Betsy is talking about the antitoxin when she's saying 10 ml's. The CD & T toxoid that is a vaccine is given in 2 ml's, etc. just like you said above.


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Thanks Backfourty. I have never used CD and same as OP I remain confused. TSC carries it here. On a GA goat forum I tried to get clarification - but 'ole thickhead can't be moved. Really it's a mental block for me.

The CD&T - vaccine. ok gottit.. and I have been doing it since day one.

Can you give me an example of when one would use CD at 3cc and subQ? On the other forum it was also mentioned about the goat's good bacteria being affected.


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## betsy h. (Sep 28, 2008)

I've always used 3ml of Covexin8, works for me...... remember, I live in the mountains where it is damp and hot and blackleg is rampant.....


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

The Anti-Toxin is to be used when you are *treating* entero, bloat, etc. The vaccine is used for protection. Initial doses, then two boosters per year.
NeHi, the only place I found the Antitoxin is at the vets, online, and believe it or not, I have found it at the MFA in Willow Springs.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

ozark_jewels said:


> The Anti-Toxin is to be used when you are *treating* entero, bloat, etc. The vaccine is used for protection. Initial doses, then two boosters per year.


Ok...now I'm confused. I thought the booster was once a year


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Minelson said:


> Ok...now I'm confused. I thought the booster was once a year


With a goats faster metobolism, it is reccomended twice yearly boosters for goats. I do one pre-breeding and pre-kidding. 
In fact, with mature goats, everything here is done pre-breeding and pre-kidding.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

ozark_jewels said:


> With a goats faster metobolism, it is reccomended twice yearly boosters for goats. I do one pre-breeding and pre-kidding.
> In fact, with mature goats, everything here is done pre-breeding and pre-kidding.


What would you suggest for someone who doesn't breed or kid?


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Minelson said:


> What would you suggest for someone who doesn't breed or kid?


Every six months was still reccomended by those in the know to a friend of mine who never bred her goats.......


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## Beulah Gardens (Feb 26, 2008)

I read once, and for the life of me I cannot remember where..

toxiod when you want to avoid
and toxin when it needs fixin'...

It helps me remember which bottle to grab when I get to the fridge...


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Beulah Gardens said:


> I read once, and for the life of me I cannot remember where..
> 
> toxiod when you want to avoid
> and toxin when it needs fixin'...
> ...


THANK YOU! That's a great help!

NeHi


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

I know this is a really old thread but is this the vaccine or anti toxin.


https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=4AB21064-C5C1-4E0D-B525-163FF936450B?


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## yarrow (Apr 27, 2004)

terri9630 said:


> I know this is a really old thread but is this the vaccine or anti toxin.
> 
> 
> https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=4AB21064-C5C1-4E0D-B525-163FF936450B?


Antitoxin


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

yarrow said:


> Antitoxin


Thank you. I just ordered some. NO ONE around here carries it. Not even our vets.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

It was really hard to get for a while IIRC. That might be why. Thanks for reminding me I should resupply my fridge!


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

mygoat said:


> It was really hard to get for a while IIRC. That might be why. Thanks for reminding me I should resupply my fridge!


Your welcome. Hope it helps my little guy. We've tried everything else.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Idahoe said:


> I do it once a year, two shots three weeks apart starting at one month old (along with a dose of antitoxin).





ozark_jewels said:


> With a goats faster metobolism, it is reccomended twice yearly boosters for goats. I do one pre-breeding and pre-kidding.
> In fact, with mature goats, everything here is done pre-breeding and pre-kidding.



Who recommends two shots a year for mature goats? I've never heard that or read it anywhere. Are you talking about Covexin or the Bar-Vac CD/T? Because I could understand higher doses of meds that are intended for other animals, but the CD/T is specifically for sheep and goats.


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