# If your cheating spouse asks for a divorce....



## Laura Zone 5

Give it.
Right then, right there.
DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT stay together 'for the kids'.
It will backfire, in Biblical proportions.

Just get your ish, and leave.
or you will lose everything.......everything you love.


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## elkhound

just keep your wits about you and work through this one day..one hour..or one minute at a time as the situation dictates the patience level.


you done what you thought was right and thats all any of us can do....hugs for you my friend.


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## Ardie/WI

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Give it.
> Right then, right there.
> DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT stay together 'for the kids'.
> It will backfire, in Biblical proportions.
> 
> Just get your ish, and leave.
> or you will lose everything.......everything you love.


Truer words have never been spoken....


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## Laura Zone 5

i want to disappear......


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## Twp.Tom

I am sorry that you are going through hades, thinking of you, and hoping, and Praying for good things ahead for you Laura.


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## elkhound

Laura Zone 5 said:


> i want to disappear......


go back and read ya own posts about kids birth.....

theres people in this world counting on you.


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## nehimama

Prayers and HUGE HUGS for you, Laura.


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## Laura Zone 5

elkhound said:


> go back and read ya own posts about kids birth.....
> 
> theres people in this world counting on you.


MY CHILD: Yeah so I told my mom I'm gonna room with you...Yeah shes speahless ha ha.

Rachel: Haha I bet

MY CHILD; Oh well ha ha shes just freaked out because I am supposed to leave in April.

Rachel: Yeah, I can imagine did she try to say no?

MY CHILD: Yeah, but it's not really her choice you know. plus I told her I was helping out a friend and she said we'd talk more about it later so I think I can get her a little more comfortable with it.

This is PART of the text conversation my daughter had with a co-worker she has known for 3 months....
I have raised a heartless child.....


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## Laura Zone 5

elkhound said:


> go back and read ya own posts about kids birth.....
> 
> theres people in this world counting on you.


No elk, really, there is not.
This will bring my grey head down to the grave.
It is, more than I can bare.


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## Terri

Laura :grouphug:


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## elkhound

Laura Zone 5 said:


> MY CHILD: Yeah so I told my mom I'm gonna room with you...Yeah shes speahless ha ha.
> 
> Rachel: Haha I bet
> 
> MY CHILD; Oh well ha ha shes just freaked out because I am supposed to leave in April.
> 
> Rachel: Yeah, I can imagine did she try to say no?
> 
> MY CHILD: Yeah, but it's not really her choice you know. plus I told her I was helping out a friend and she said we'd talk more about it later so I think I can get her a little more comfortable with it.
> 
> This is PART of the text conversation my daughter had with a co-worker she has known for 3 months....
> I have raised a heartless child.....



maybe i am blind a bit here....but she is 18 and wants a life of her own...is that what most people want and do when they become an adult.

they are counting onyou even if they dont say it or show it....even if kids are capable in the back of there minds they think/know mom is there if i need her...as they grow and have life experiences they will grow and change and understand...same as me and you....even right now we all are learning as we go through life.


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## elkhound

Laura Zone 5 said:


> No elk, really, there is not.
> This will bring my grey head down to the grave.
> It is, more than I can bare.



your kids are growing into adults.....be proud.

i am sure a empty nest sucks for a mother.


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## painterswife

Reading your children's private correspondence is never a good idea.


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## Terri

Elkhound, I think that it is more HOW her child is leaving instead of that her child *IS* leaving. 

Not only is her child leaving, but Laura Zone 5 thinks her child is laughing at her as well. Kids are sometimes thoughtless on steroids!


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## Laura Zone 5

elk, that sounds good on paper.
just like 'till death do we part"

there is so much more going on....this is not about a child wanting to go be an adult.
that, i get.


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## Laura Zone 5

PW thanks for the advice, it's been filed. Feel free to pass on my posts.


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## Dixie Bee Acres

None of my business, but, 
Divorce is only an option if you choose to make it an option.


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## Brighton

Laura Zone 5 said:


> MY CHILD: Yeah so I told my mom I'm gonna room with you...Yeah shes speahless ha ha.
> 
> Rachel: Haha I bet
> 
> MY CHILD; Oh well ha ha shes just freaked out because I am supposed to leave in April.
> 
> Rachel: Yeah, I can imagine did she try to say no?
> 
> MY CHILD: Yeah, but it's not really her choice you know. plus I told her I was helping out a friend and she said we'd talk more about it later so I think I can get her a little more comfortable with it.
> 
> This is PART of the text conversation my daughter had with a co-worker she has known for 3 months....
> I have raised a heartless child.....


What does this have to do with your cheating husband, I don't get it?


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## farmerj

sorry to hear it but suck it up buttercup.

I had my kids' lives stripped from me 7 years ago for no reason other than their mother decided our marriage was garbage and she needed to go elsewhere for attention. She even stated to my own parents while I was deployed that SHE was in control of the kids and their lives and I would not be allowed back into it when I returned.

The only thing you have control over is yourself. Nothing or no one else. how you approach life from that point forward is on you and no one else. How you react to others actions is yours and yours alone in what you let it do to you.

Nope. Don't really care how people are going to see this. After reading several pages here (this comments as well as others on a step-mom wanting to force her stepdaughter to not terminate a pregnancy and a couple others, these are just two of the topics.) a lot of people here to to grow up and mind their own business and focus more on their own lives and not controlling others.


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## Laura Zone 5

Fight or Flight.

It's a natural response built into every human.
I have always, selected, fight.
I am a fighter.

Today?

I give up.
I am done fighting. 
I am ready, for take off.


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## elkhound

sorry lz5.....elkhound is just trying to stick a hand out again so you can grab on and not sink in the mud.


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## Laura Zone 5

farmerj said:


> sorry to hear it but suck it up buttercup.
> 
> I had my kids' lives stripped from me 7 years ago for no reason other than their mother decided our marriage was garbage and she needed to go elsewhere for attention. She even stated to my own parents while I was deployed that SHE was in control of the kids and their lives and I would not be allowed back into it when I returned.


That was a low down dirty thing to do.



> The only thing you have control over is yourself. Nothing or no one else. how you approach life from that point forward is on you and no one else. How you react to others actions is yours and yours alone in what you let it do to you.


I have to agree with you. 
So everyone can just stuff it....I'm gonna do what I want.



> Nope. Don't really care how people are going to see this. After reading several pages here (this comments as well as others on a step-mom wanting to force her stepdaughter to not terminate a pregnancy and a couple others, these are just two of the topics.) a lot of people here to to grow up and mind their own business and focus more on their own lives and not controlling others.


Yep. Agree.
She can go....without MY CAR, MY cell phone or MY computer.
She wants to be on her own?
Do it.
ON YOUR OWN.
Stuff it kid.


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## L.A.

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> None of my business, but,
> Divorce is only an option if you choose to make it an option.



Nope,,,,,,unless you're thinking murder,,,,


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## farmerj

So if she's no longer a minor, give her a REALLY special Christmas present.

An eviction notice. And then tell her Happy New Years. She has until Dec 31 to vacate.


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## Laura Zone 5

She made an AMAZING good decision.
She's in the process of joining the Marine's 
She leaves in April.

As a parent, I have tried to guide, teach, and train to the best of my ability.

She is working with people that will endanger her opportunity to become a Marine.
Druggies, boozers, bad bad decision makers.......
And now, like a dumb arce, to SPITE ME (and trust me, it is to spite me) she wants to move in with one of them, for the next 4 months before she ships out.

Stupid.

I told her recruiter.
She and I will have a sit down with him tomorrow.


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## Darren

Can they move the date up? Maybe it's time to watch Rudy again. Just when you think you can't go on, you can.


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## Brighton

Laura Zone 5 said:


> As a parent, I have tried to guide, teach, and train to the best of my ability.


Are you trying to guide, teach and train, or control?

My youngest brother is a Marine, he lived with several shady character prior to joining, didn't cause him any problems.


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## Laura Zone 5

Brighton said:


> Are you trying to guide, teach and train, or control?
> 
> My youngest brother is a Marine, he lived with several shady character prior to joining, didn't cause him any problems.


We'll see what Gunny has to say tomorrow.....


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## Terri in WV

I remember being a young adult. 

The more you try to control, the more she will rebel.


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## painterswife

Well this might hurt but I can see another person deciding to not be in your life if you continue on this path.


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## Terri

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I told her recruiter.
> She and I will have a sit down with him tomorrow.


I wouldn't. I decided to let my DD make her mistakes without me being involved.

Unfortunately it is too early to know how that turned out, LOL! But, I was not sure if me giving advice would make things better or make her more set in her decision just to show me how independent she is!

I told her the cell phone was a gift and it was of course hers,: I did NOT tell her that I wanted her to have a cell phone in case she got stuck somewhere and wanted to call for assistance! My own DD is being reckless!

My sister says that "Yes she is, but would you rather have her get it out of her system now or when she is 30?". My sister is right, of course, which does not make me worry less.


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## Terri

Terri in WV said:


> I remember being a young adult.
> 
> The more you try to control, the more she will rebel.


Yeah, that was why I did not spell things out for my daughter a couple of months ago! She was being reckless but......


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## Brighton

Laura Zone 5 said:


> We'll see what Gunny has to say tomorrow.....


You may have just, by your own hand driven her off a cliff, a cliff where she has no choice anymore because Mommy (control) called the Gunny and started an investigation. So, you have two choices, go to the meeting tomorrow and say you over reacted, or stand your ground let your daughter get dismissed from a good chance at the Marines...maybe she could just work at the local 7-11?? You have said 1000 times on this board alone that you have raised your children to make good choices, now that she is an Adult you are pulling back those choices, you are going to have to get on with YOUR life one day, cut the apron strings and let your adult children live their own lives and make their own choices, which you were allowed to make at that age.


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## Terri in WV

I think you did right, Terri.  Not to highjack the thread, but how is she doing?

At some point, there comes a time when you have to let them sink or swim.


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## Centralilrookie

LZ5- don't give up!! You are a very good person who is going thru a really tough time. Darkness everywhere. You will over come this adversity and your friends here will be with you every step of the way.

Just maybe this is some sort of independent profile that your daughter wants to project to her new friends at work. Who knows?? That doesn't take the hurt away, but it is a thought.

The pain of going thru a divorce does not compare to the the pain that our kids can inflict upon us through their actions or words. Stay in touch!


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## Terri

Terri in WV said:


> I think you did right, Terri.  Not to highjack the thread, but how is she doing?
> 
> At some point, there comes a time when you have to let them sink or swim.


She says she is doing great. She has been known to stretch the truth, but she sounds happy and she has at least not fallen face first into the mud! And, the on-line friend that she moved in with is apparently as stable as was said.

She might have a line on a job.


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## Laura Zone 5

Dude. 19, though chronologically so, is NOT an adult.
Yes. She is 'repsonsible' by law for her choices......
But at 18 magic does not happen and all the life experience of a 50 year old magically appears in an 18 year old child's head.

And like I said before, she can stuff it.
Take her clothes, and that's it.
NOT MY car, phone, or computer....or furniture for that matter.
She want's to play grown up?
Go for it.
Gut it out the way I did......

I thought as a parent, I was supposed to help her NOT make the same STUPID mistakes I made?
Like reading a history book, and not, let's say, enslaving an entire race of people, again????

If she wants to crap in her own mess kit, here's a fork J.A., dig in.


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## newfieannie

I had to let my boy go to get him back. many years ago I knew he was hanging with unsavoury characters. I did talk to him . he had no car so I had to drive him everywhere even to their place and I did. one night at 3am he called and said"come and get me mother. this is no place for me" he is 50 now and I would venture to say there is no mother and son any closer than us. and no I would never read his mail. but that's just me.~Georgia


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## elkhound

if she is upset with you and rebelling now....the marines are going to rip her a new one.

she just thinks she knows what being bossed around is....lol


boot camp here we come.


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## Terri

Laura, what you posted of the conversation sounds very much like your DD is trying to impress her friend by how hard-boiled and independent she is..... of course she is NOT, but teens have been bragging for thousands of years now about how they are all that and a bag of chips!

Your DD was talking "big", is all, which was why she said those nasty things!

If she is weak the Marines will not want her. Be careful what you say to Gunny.


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## Laura Zone 5

let the drinking......begin........


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## Terri in WV

My mom had the same attitude as you when I was 18. So I did move out, took only what I paid for and we didn't speak for several years.

All through the remaining decades she has still chosen to have the same attitude with me as she did so long ago. There has been plenty of times where we've gone a year+ without speaking because she has perceived some wrong on my part. That is to say, that she did not like that I was not doing it her way.

Because of this, we have never had a good relationship and never will. She is the sole reason I moved out of state, to where I knew no one and took her only grandkids with me.

In a week, I'll be 50 and in three, she'll be 70.

Is that really how you want the future with your daughter to be?


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## viggie

It sounds like you are processing a lot right now, and I hope you are able to sort it out before things get out of hand. I think it's sweet that you want to spare her, but if she's that much like you then perhaps there are only some things she can be guided through and some things that she can also only learn the hard way. I remember watching my dad go through that same realization with my brother...as they are soooooo much the same and they did a great job of driving each other nuts for a long time. But when things settled down they were both the good-hearted, hard-working, reliable sort of guys who simply cannot act normally in front of a camera. 

The good apples don't fall too far from the tree. It's that period where they are falling that's scary after you've spent all that time nurturing them.


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## sustainabilly

Laura, What loving, caring, and concerned parent wouldn't want to protect their child? If you want yours to truly learn life's lessons, you've got to let her go on to the next grade in the school of hard knocks. No standing at the door to the classroom. No peeking in the window. Turn your back. Walk away and stop trying to patch up every skinned knee. But walk with your head held high in pride at raising a child who is not a push over. Sucks that she's choosing you to do battle with. But, better you than say...the law? or the corps? Or did you not want her to be independent? The thing comes with a price. And, you have to make a choice. You can either be closer than ever when she's made her fair share of mistakes or further apart. Maybe you chill a bit? And think it through? You're smart enough to see the right path. You must be, cause she had to get it from somewhere.


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## elkhound

Laura Zone 5 said:


> let the drinking......begin........


put ya faith in action here...dont use a drink as a crutch....use yeshua/jesus

i dont fault anyone for drinking ever so often and having a good time...but not during hardtimes.we need to feel things....how would you feel if YHWH sent holy spirit on you in a time of need and you was plastered .


my hand is sticking out.........dont slip down in the mud.


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## Centralilrookie

The thought of taking the" let them go to get them back" pill is great advise. Got a feeling it's going to taste like ...[] going down.


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## painterswife

sustainabilly said:


> Laura, What loving, caring, and concerned parent wouldn't want to protect their child? If you want yours to truly learn life's lessons, you've got to let her go on to the next grade in the school of hard knocks. No standing at the door to the classroom. No peeking in the window. Turn your back. Walk away and stop trying to patch up every skinned knee. But walk with your head held high in pride at raising a child who is not a push over. Sucks that she's choosing you to do battle with. But, better you than say...the law? or the corps? Or did you not want her to be independent? The thing comes with a price. And, you have to make a choice. You can either be closer than ever when she's made her fair share of mistakes or further apart. Maybe you chill a bit? And think it through? You're smart enough to see the right path. You must be, cause she had to get it from somewhere.


The daughter is not in a battle. The mother read her private texts and then started something she had no right to get involved in.


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## rkintn

LZ5, I totally understand the pain you are going through with your daughter. My oldest went behind my back when she moved out at 18. In retrospect, it was the best thing she ever did...for the both of us! She realized after she moved out that Mom was NOT the awful person she had thought and I got to see she could fly on her own. As hard as it is, you have to let her go. Tell her she can go without the things you bought (they are only things after all), but keep the lines of communication open. She IS going to need you again and she is going to need you unconditionally and without judgment. In your anger and hurt and disappointment, don't forget that. 

As for the stuff with the recruiter, I say let it go. If she's doping, they'll know. If not, then she will proceed on to bootcamp, which sounds like the best thing for her. You have to let go of your end the rope in this tug of war if you are going to salvage any kind of relationship with your daughter. HUGS to you! I wish you both the best!


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## Terri

Laura Zone 5 said:


> let the drinking......begin........


:buds: can prevent :hammer:


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## Fowler

@painterswife...Have you noticed everyone is ignoring your post, except me. I find your comments rude and lacking compassion. Maybe you should PM Laura and tell how she's wrong in private....Just sayin, and I have no problems getting infractions when you start telling Karl and others they are wrong in there thoughts


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## painterswife

Fowler said:


> @painterswife...Have you noticed everyone is ignoring your post, except me. I find your comments rude and lacking compassion. Maybe you should PM Laura and tell how she's wrong in private....Just sayin, and I have no problems getting infractions when you start telling Karl and others they are wrong in there thoughts


Sometimes the truth hurts. Sometimes you need to hear the truth even if you don't want to. I respect your opinion but I have the right to post mine as well.


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## Brighton

Fowler said:


> Just sayin, and I have no problems getting infractions when you start telling Karl and others they are wrong in there thoughts


Who is Karl?


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## Fowler

painterswife said:


> Sometimes the truth hurts. Sometimes you need to hear the truth even if you don't want to. I respect your opinion but I have the right to post mine as well.


 
Then tell her in private. Your bashing other peoples opinions. Karl and others can read.


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## sustainabilly

painterswife said:


> The daughter is not in a battle. The mother read her private texts and then started something she had no right to get involved in.


Honey, I'm aware of that, although I'm not sure you're exercising your right to free speech with very much tact. I don't condone it and I'm not there to know all the details. I was referring to LZ5's feelings about the context of the msg. and her subsequent statements as a result. Not the right or wrong of it. I'm not passing judgement here. The only side I'm taking is the side of reason and calm-headed discussion.


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## Fowler

Brighton said:


> Who is Karl?


Who is painterwife? and Who are you?


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## painterswife

Fowler said:


> Then tell her in private. Your bashing other peoples opinions. Karl and others can read.


I disagreed with his opinion and posted it. I did not bash.


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## Fowler

But your helping Laura? By telling someone else there wrong?.....LOL


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## sustainabilly

And LZ5? I get that you feel alone in this, what with you and him not being a team anymore. Easy to see how that could add to your frustration and cause you to overreact. Been there done that, as have a lot more of your friends here. You vent all you want. That's what we're here for. Well, most of us anyway.


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## mistletoad

Fowler said:


> But your helping Laura? By telling someone else there wrong?.....LOL


Isn't that exactly what you are doing?


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## homefire2007

You and your children have been through a lot. Sounds like she may be hurting, too. Time to step back, with hold judgement and get on with things. Teenagers and young adults can say some silly things...you are the mature adult...let it go. It is hard to watch your child make bad decisions. You've done your best as a parent, now let her go.

I've been through something similar with my son. All my dire predictions (thankfully left unsaid) turned out to be wrong. Did he mess up...sure he did. I love him more than I do my desire to be 'right.' There's no guidebook but making decisions on a visceral level can come back to bite you. I wish you the very best and I really hope things start looking up for you.


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## Patchouli

Fowler said:


> Then tell her in private. Your bashing other peoples opinions. Karl and others can read.


You are bashing Painterswife's opinion are you not? Why don't you take your own suggestion and take it to PMs?


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## elkhound




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## Patchouli

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Dude. 19, though chronologically so, is NOT an adult.
> Yes. She is 'repsonsible' by law for her choices......
> But at 18 magic does not happen and all the life experience of a 50 year old magically appears in an 18 year old child's head.
> 
> And like I said before, she can stuff it.
> Take her clothes, and that's it.
> NOT MY car, phone, or computer....or furniture for that matter.
> She want's to play grown up?
> Go for it.
> Gut it out the way I did......
> 
> I thought as a parent, I was supposed to help her NOT make the same STUPID mistakes I made?
> Like reading a history book, and not, let's say, enslaving an entire race of people, again????
> 
> If she wants to crap in her own mess kit, here's a fork J.A., dig in.


I am curious how this is the mature response? You hurt my feelings so get out and I am taking all of your stuff but the clothes on your back? Really? 

I have 3 grown children and I would never treat any of them like this especially just for hurting my feelings. If you haven't mucked up her chances to get in the military she will most likely go in and never speak to you again and you will be the one at fault.


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## sustainabilly

homefire2007 said:


> You and your children have been through a lot. Sounds like she may be hurting, too. Time to step back, with hold judgement and get on with things. Teenagers and young adults can say some silly things...you are the mature adult...let it go. It is hard to watch your child make bad decisions. You've done your best as a parent, now let her go.
> 
> I've been through something similar with my son. All my dire predictions (thankfully left unsaid) turned out to be wrong. Did he mess up...sure he did. *I love him more than I do my desire to be 'right.' * There's no guidebook but making decisions on a visceral level can come back to bite you. I wish you the very best and I really hope things start looking up for you.


This^^^^ is parenting at it's best...also one of the hardest parts.


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## Fowler

mistletoad said:


> Isn't that exactly what you are doing?


Yes, and?


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## Fowler

Patchouli said:


> You are bashing Painterswife's opinion are you not? Why don't you take your own suggestion and take it to PMs?


Bless your heart.


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## viggie

I have a few choice PMs, if that's how we are doing it these days 

And...as to the question of acting maturely....I don't think any of us do when we are newly hurt. It takes time to deal with our emotions and start thinking things through to the point where we can make decisions. That's why venting can be an important part of the process so we can get past the purely reactive part.


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## Shygal

Well this might make me unpopular but that has never stopped me before.

I don't understand any of this. First its about divorcing a cheating husband and then it turns into a bash of an adult child.

Stuff it kid? Im glad my parents didnt say that to me. This girl is making a HUGE life choice, joining the Marines is not something everyone can do, you should be proud, not griping about her wanting to move somewhere for four months?

Why are you in possession of text messages she sent to one of her friends? 

Why do you think her recruiter will even listen to you? She is a legal adult. 

And I'm sorry, but there are a lot of people on here going through what you are, and a lot more. The "let the drinking begin", is that really necessary? It got the desired response though, didn't it. People are wanting to listen and help without the drama and "poor me" things, just as someone else said, suck it up. How do you expect your daughter to act like an adult when YOU aren't?

Trust me, there are far far more horrible things to live through than a divorce and a child wanting to move out. Be thankful you aren't living someone elses life.


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## Fowler

LOL!!!!!....Hi Shy we miss you


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## Dixie Bee Acres

Fowler said:


> @painterswife...Have you noticed everyone is ignoring your post, except me. I find your comments rude and lacking compassion. Maybe you should PM Laura and tell how she's wrong in private....Just sayin, and I have no problems getting infractions when you start telling Karl and others they are wrong in there thoughts


I'm sorry, but I disagree. I had a post deleted because it pointed out something very basic and to the point.
Now you are basicly saying any post that doesn't blow sunshine up LZ5s hind end should be done in private.

I do not agree. If you don't want to hear comments and opinions that both support and go against you, then don't go airing out your PRIVATE family dirty laundry on a PUBLIC forum.

Sure, i feel bad for Laura that she is going thru a tough time right now, been there, but that doesnt mean I have to agree with everything she says and does.

Well, maybe that is a rule since my post of disagreeing with her actions (while not being rude or mean) got deleted.


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## L.A.

OOPS,,,,,**backing out inconspicuously**

I thought you guys might be up to Ice Cream by now,,,,,Shhhh,,,shhhhh,,,,

:icecream:


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## painterswife

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> I'm sorry, but I disagree. I had a post deleted because it pointed out something very basic and to the point.
> Now you are basicly saying any post that doesn't blow sunshine up LZ5s hind end should be done in private.
> 
> I do not agree. If you don't want to hear comments and opinions that both support and go against you, then don't go airing out your PRIVATE family dirty laundry on a PUBLIC forum.
> 
> Sure, i feel bad for Laura that she is going thru a tough time right now, been there, but that doesnt mean I have to agree with everything she says and does.
> 
> Well, maybe that is a rule since my post of disagreeing with her actions (while not being rude or mean) got deleted.


I had one deleted as well and others who have said the same thing are still standing. I am sure it is because ours got reported and theirs did not.


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## Fowler

L.A. said:


> OOPS,,,,,**backing out inconspicuously**
> 
> I thought you guys might be up to Ice Cream by now,,,,,Shhhh,,,shhhhh,,,,
> 
> :icecream:


LOL!!! Ice cream tease!!!


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## Dixie Bee Acres

Fowler said:


> You're attacking me now instead of others,(which is what I wanted) my work here is done. :cowboy:


Um, no, I wasn't. I was just stating my opinion towards your statement of your opinion. It's called open discussion.
I'm sorry if you feel I was "attacking" you or anyone else. I never intended any post as an attack.
Honestly.


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## Dixie Bee Acres

Maybe this thread should just get closed, seeing as how honest opinions are not allowed.

I bet if it were locked away and Laura had a chance to review it in a month or four, she too would agree that she was not acting very maturely at the time of this thread.


----------



## Ardie/WI

<Sigh> Laura, my advice is to let her go!

My opinion has always been that my job was to push my kids out of the nest so they can fly. If they hit the ground, my job is to pick them up, dust them off and throw them back into the air!

Is it hard---my God, yes! Does it hurt, of course! 

But, somehow, I brought up a DD to be the strongest, most independent woman I've ever known. BTW, we still bump heads and she is 43! We did just this AM and I still am not certain what I said that set her off.


----------



## foxfiredidit

> Who is Karl?


 Just so we have a clear understanding of this issue. 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m0VnzPFxew[/ame]


----------



## sherry in Maine

Laura, I am so sorry you have teenagers AND going through a divorce.

Yes, teens are heartless and insensitive and quite stupid and callous. All of these things are because they have been the center of the universe for all of that time....(that's the way it is supposed to be--the center of it all.)
You cant change her path; let her screw it up herself.
I went through some very painful shipoop with my oldest a few years ago. She fell in with some really sick, base, scum (that took me years to stop being angry at--even now I occasionally wish someone would cut their heads off and crap in them) It will take her a long time to grow up, and figure out how to be an adult, and she has to do it herself.
Hard as it is now, dont take it personally. You are making it hard for yourself. 
I am not judging you, only very empathetic.
Have you gone to counselling?
Let her go; you cant 'make' anyone want to stick around, for 4 months or 4 weeks or whatever.
I am very sorry you are having such a hard time!
I send you my love, it doesn't help, but just remember that YOU can get through this. SHE has her own path, straight or crooked, she needs to learn it herself.


----------



## sustainabilly

Never mind.


----------



## sustainabilly

Well whaddaya know Fox. I reckon TV is good for something after all.


----------



## sustainabilly

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> Maybe this thread should just get closed, seeing as how honest opinions are not allowed.
> 
> *I bet if it were locked away and Laura had a chance to review it in a month or four, she too would agree that she was not acting very maturely at the time of this thread.*


Locked away or not, this is probably true.


----------



## tiffnzacsmom

My daughter left at 14, waited till I left for work called her dad to say I was beating her and trashed my home I had CYS called and the whole bit because I was sick and had taken her phone for lying. I nearly lost my mind Chickenista can vouch for that as my best friend took me to NC to get my head together. I had major surgery and wasn't even allowed to talk to my children. 

She is back now and has grown into a wonderfully mature 18 year old. My son is with his dad but that is fine boys need a father. 

I went through Hel but I made it through I have good solid friends who I can trust with anything now and a man who loves me to no end. It doesn't seem it now but this isn't the end of the world but prying and sharing her business will damage your relationship with her. You don't want to lose her forever so tread carefully.


----------



## CountryCabin

I am not that good with words so this may be a tad long and please don't take this as a put down..ok?  

Laura, one thing really stood out to me that you are saying. 
This: 
_I thought as a parent, I was supposed to help her NOT make the same STUPID mistakes I made?_ 

I have the feeling that you are scared spitless because of mistakes you made and scared that she will make bad mistakes too. 
Yes you are hurt, but I feel from your words you are more scared for her but you are hiding it, so the bitterness and the anger is coming out. 

Take a deep breath and take yourself back to your time of mistakes. What did you think when you were her age...? 

I bet you thought you were right on everything, just as she is doing now. 
Back then, I bet you didn't think twice about what you wanted to do..you just went for it.....regardless of what was said to you. 
Tho NOW you see the pitfalls and that is scaring you silly! 

She sees nothing of this as she is about to enter a whole new way of life and only sees the good parts, at least to her. 
One day she will realize. I hope you will be there for her when it hits home for her. 

Remember this Laura. 
As youngsters, we (parents) were the very smart in their eyes, we had all the answers for them. 

When they got into the preteens they had their doubts about parents and just how smart we weren't, according to them. 

By the time they hit late teens they were sure we were dumber than a box of rocks and had no clue whatsoever.  

When they hit, oh I'd say the 30's, the light turns on and we just became the smart again. lol 
It's a cycle that I think most of us go thru. 

I know its going to be hard for you, but calmly try to talk to her and tell her you are scared for her and that's what set you off. Don't let her draw her own conclusions.

Try to be there for her now as her wings dry and she's in flight. (for both you and her sake.) 
Let her go but with good memories...not bad ones, even if it means she has to fall again and again. 
That way she will know you are there.. even if both of you may not always agree.

At some time, in the darkest part of her life, she will then know she can turn to you! 
Be her safety net when all else fails or to rejoice in her accomplishments along the way. 

I do wish you well Laura, as you are at the hardest part of being a parent. 

I hope I am not to far out in left field on the feeling I got from your post.


----------



## Guest

Brighton said:


> You may have just, by your own hand driven her off a cliff, a cliff where she has no choice anymore because Mommy (control) called the Gunny and started an investigation. So, you have two choices, go to the meeting tomorrow and say you over reacted, or stand your ground let your daughter get dismissed from a good chance at the Marines...maybe she could just work at the local 7-11?? You have said 1000 times on this board alone that you have raised your children to make good choices, now that she is an Adult you are pulling back those choices, you are going to have to get on with YOUR life one day, cut the apron strings and let your adult children live their own lives and make their own choices, which you were allowed to make at that age.



I disagree with you on this one...my son was suppose to leave for Marine corp bootcamp Sept but do to a knee injury the ship date was moved up to today ( whick was moved up again because of paperwork not getting to its destination) so my son decided that he was going to hang out with his buddies and party it up..my dh who is a Marine and doesnt interfere a lot since my son is 18-yrs old decided my son was headed in the wrong direction and alerted his Sargent..the Sargent was at our house the following day without my son's knowledge and had a nice chat with my son..straightened his grits right out..NOT because my dh was trying to control our son..but to make him see that his career would go right down the tubes..just because my son is 18-yrs old DOESNT mean he is going to make the right choices..Laura has every right to interfere..its HER daughters FUTURE on the line!


----------



## littlejoe

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Give it.
> Right then, right there.
> DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT stay together 'for the kids'.
> It will backfire, in Biblical proportions.
> 
> Just get your ish, and leave.
> or you will lose everything.......everything you love.


Looks like your blaming your X for this, no? It's one of lifes happenings! To put the blame on him is wrongful, because you also played a hand in it. You have to make the best of the situation you are given.

And I am an awful long ways from being good in any respect, so don't think I'm trying to judge. I'm just speaking from my very small understanding of raising kids and going through a divorce. I had a hand in the good, as well as the bad, in all of it!

No matter what you think, how hard you try to raise them right....your kids are NOT you! They are each an individual, and you have to treat them with respect in order for them to treat you the same.

They will make mistakes the same as you did, and the same as I and everyone else has done, as well. Some might grow wild and wooly, but eventually they recognize their raising and the values you hopefully instilled in them. And possibly some might not? I've been blessed in my kids, but they're a long ways from perfect....but not as far as I am!

Kids will explore life and living. Sometimes they need to make mistakes, to recognize they were way off track. We don't need to help them make mistakes by financing them in any way, but we do need to be there to help them find the trail again. And I'm not talking about financing that either.

A wise horseman once said, You make the right things easy, and the wrong things difficult. It applies to so many facets of life, other than horses! It's a complete reversal of thought process other than demanding things. And it does take some thought... a helluva lot of thought for me!

I wish you well! I also hope you don't hold it against your X or your child?


----------



## L.A.

A very wise horseman (Ray Hunt, Tom & Bill Dorrance),

Sounds so easy,,,,Ain't though, just like Little Joe states


----------



## littlejoe

L.A. said:


> A very wise horseman (Ray Hunt, Tom & Bill Dorrance),
> 
> Sounds so easy,,,,Ain't though, just like Little Joe states


You got 'em LA! I made it to one of Rays seminars and Tom Dorrance was there. They opened my eyes to a lot more than just horses! Those words have always stuck with me.


----------



## shanzone2001

Laura, Shygal hit the nail on the head.
Yes, divorce is tough but you need to decide whether or not you are going to let it destroy you.
Some posts have been harsh but you laid it out there on a public forum. Most of us have learned the hard way to not do that.
Your daughter is an adult. lf you treat her like one she may be more apt to act like one.
l wish you all the best.

(Who are all these posters and why do they only come out of the woodwork to be critical??? Jeez!)


----------



## shanzone2001

PS My first husband cheated on me, too. 
HE is the loser, not me. 
You can't let the behaviors of a bad spouse dictate your self worth. Period.
I drank at times but drinking didn't make my problems go away. l had to face them head on. I have a feeling drinking only brings you down so l wouldn't do it.
Occational pity parties are ok, but at some point you have to put the drink down and deal with life.


----------



## Laura Zone 5

Thank you for your input.

(and for those who have no children, um, I don't post advice on the goat forum, because I don't have goats....and well, that kinda makes anything I say not very weighty or worth hearing...just sayin')

If I had the time, I could 'cut and paste' a little bit of this and and a little bit of that from 99% of the responses, and it would be the 'right picture...right story' and good advice.

I appreciate those who replied, thoughtfully, even if it's not 'sunshine and roses'....
I'm not the 'hey blow my skirt up with ___' kinda gal.
I appreciate those who give an honest opinion.
Those who just like to chase me around and bash on me, carry on. 
I don't see it!



> my dh who is a Marine and doesnt interfere a lot since my son is 18-yrs old decided my son was headed in the wrong direction and alerted his Sargent..the Sargent was at our house the following day without my son's knowledge and had a nice chat with my son..straightened his grits right out..NOT because my dh was trying to control our son..but to make him see that his career would go right down the tubes..just because my son is 18-yrs old DOESNT mean he is going to make the right choices..Laura has every right to interfere..its HER daughters FUTURE on the line!


BAM, My3Sons....you get it.
You get exactly where I am coming from.
Thank you.


----------



## Laura Zone 5

shanzone2001 said:


> PS My first husband cheated on me, too.
> HE is the loser, not me.
> You can't let the behaviors of a bad spouse dictate your self worth. Period.
> I drank at times but drinking didn't make my problems go away. l had to face them head on. I have a feeling drinking only brings you down so l wouldn't do it.
> Occational pity parties are ok, but at some point you have to put the drink down and deal with life.


I guess the point was.....just go.
Don't stick around and try to make nice, la la la.
The kids will lose respect for you, and drive into the ditch (not all...but I have seen it in most of the young people I know)
Just..go.

I haven't had a drink in 16 years (non-practicing alcoholic)....so it's been a while. It was nice, to take the edge off.

I hope my explanation makes more sense!


----------



## farmgal

Let her do her thing. Your going to talk to the recruiter? Why? She's 18. Let her fly. Why give this recruiter abad impression of her? That will really plant a seed of resentment. You will push her farther away. Making it more difficult when she figures out you only wish the best for her and she wants to be in your life. Daughters always need their mothers, some just need to figure it out for themselves.


----------



## shanzone2001

Yes, just go.
lf you hold your head up and move on to make a better life for yourself your kids WILL respect you. Being a strong woman is the best thing you can do for them and you.


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## tambo

If you think things are in the ditch right now alcohol is not going to make it better for you or her. Whether you do or she does it's not going to make things better period.


----------



## Laura Zone 5

shanzone2001 said:


> Yes, just go.
> lf you hold your head up and move on to make a better life for yourself your kids WILL respect you. Being a strong woman is the best thing you can do for them and you.


That was part of the point of the 'advice'.
I DIDN'T do this /\ /\ /\ and now I am in the middle of sorrow, heart ache because I thought what I was doing, was the 'right' thing......

What *you* have said it dead on right.
Just go.
Move on...make a new life / better life. Be strong.


----------



## vicker

An old fellow once told me that if I drank because I had a problem I would wake up with two problems. It turns out he was a wise old fellow.


----------



## wr

I've had my share of problems raising kids and I can assure you that you can't force them to stay, you can't keep them from making mistakes and sometimes a taste of the real world gives them a greater appreciation for home. If the girl wants to move out, let her go but don't interfere with her career plans to try and make a point. If you do, you will likely push her further away. 

Moms like to take charge and keep kids on the path we feel is best but sometimes the best thing a mom can do is stand back, let them learn there are consequences for their actions.


----------



## Shrek

When a spouse cheats, thy actually cheat themselves more than their spouse because they will never again be viewed or consider themselves a trustworthy partner.

My ex cheated herself and married the guy she cheated with. Although when she introduced him to me after they had married and I told him "Thank You" before she rushed him off , 2 1/2 years later when he divorced her for cheating on him , he told me when I saw him at a card game hosted by a mutual friend that although he knew she was cheating and wanted to marry her after I cut her loose that he discovered he never really trusted her and questioned his own affections towards her that he figured probably contributed to her cheating during their marriage.

All I could tell him that I learned from one of her uncles not partial to her whom I worked with after my divorce was that in his words his niece was a "serial cheater" and I was the only one of her then 4 ex husbands he was aware of who didn't get engaged to her while she was still married to her previous husband which is why I did not know she was a cheat when I married her.


----------



## farmerj

My ex had an affair with a guy for 2+ years. She finally dumped him and was cheating on him as he was also cheating on her AND he was still married.

Sometimes they are just doing you a favor.


----------



## nehimama

Laura, you have proven your courage, compassion and wisdom to us so many times. You are a good person, a good woman, and a good Mama. I hate it for you that you are facing such a tough, bleak time in your life. Your heart and your wisdom will help you find the right path. I'm keeping you in my prayers, Good Lady.


----------



## Fowler

That's the sucky part of parenting, they have to learn for themselves just like we did, and we have to just let them learn for themselves.
What's the point in having all this wisdom .....LOL!!!


----------



## Darren

You got a point. I told you so's are vastly overrated. Best to bite your tongue.


----------



## willow_girl

Let me see if I understand where you're coming from. 

You swallowed your pride and stayed with your cheating husband (partly?) for the sake of your children, and now you're furious because your kids aren't demonstrating the same sort of self-sacrifice and unswerving loyalty to you?

I'm sorry, Laura, but that is not the nature of youth. Young people are colossally selfish ... they are focused on themselves, their wants and needs, their futures. 

Don't expect more from your daughter than she can probably provide, at least at this stage in life. Don't hold it against her that she is young.

Don't give your anger the freedom to lash out at her in ways you may regret later. It's easier to burn bridges than it is to build them.

And ... you can't stop her from making her mistakes, any more than your parents could stop you (or mine could stop me). Remember the Serenity Prayer. And, fergawdsakes ... stay away from the bottle!!


----------



## Ardie/WI

Fowler said:


> That's the sucky part of parenting, they have to learn for themselves just like we did, and we have to just let them learn for themselves.
> What's the point in having all this wisdom .....LOL!!!


I've learned that we all have to learn by making our own mistakes. Some are big, some are small and some are life changing, and that's how we learn.

Regarding yor divorce, put that away. Forget about that marriage and divorce. It's over. It's the past. It's dead. And don't blame it for every problem you and your children have.


----------



## RubyRed

There has been so much great advice and wisdom, my words would be redundant. All I have to offer you are my prayers and know that you and your family are in my thoughts. 

In Godspeed, Laura.


----------



## jwal10

Laura Zone 5 said:


> That was a low down dirty thing to do.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to agree with you.
> So everyone can just stuff it....I'm gonna do what I want.
> 
> 
> Leave out the stuff it, do not burn a bridge
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. Agree.
> She can go....without MY CAR, MY cell phone or MY computer.
> She wants to be on her own?
> Do it.
> ON YOUR OWN.
> Stuff it kid.


Same here, leave out the "stuff it kid"



You taught them something, make sure "IT" stays the same.

ONLY YOU CAN MAKE YOU HAPPY....James


----------



## Laura Zone 5

mythreesons said:


> my dh who is a Marine and doesnt interfere a lot since my son is 18-yrs old decided my son was headed in the wrong direction and alerted his Sargent..the Sargent was at our house the following day without my son's knowledge and had a nice chat with my son..straightened his grits right out..NOT because my dh was trying to control our son..but to make him see that his career would go right down the tubes..just because my son is 18-yrs old DOESNT mean he is going to make the right choices..Laura has every right to interfere..its HER daughters FUTURE on the line!


First, I will address the above AMAZING great advice.
My daughter and I sat down w the Sargent.
I voiced my concerns about her wanting to move in with a female, she has known for 45 days.....that said female, and other co-workers that my daughter and the female are 'friends' with are known for their drinking and recreational drug use.
She snorted: "You don't know her or the people I work with".
To which I said "5 min on facebook, twitter, instagram and google tell me all I need to know, and those suspicions are verified through a police officer friend of mine."
Sargent, his specialty? Intel.

Point one me.

I told the Sargent, I DO NOT worry about my daughter doing anything stupid, because becoming a Marine is her everything......but if her 'friend' has a friend, who brings a friend (who is being watched by the po po) into their apartment, and he has drugs on him, MY DAUGHTER can, and will be arrested, and it will ruin her chance forever of being a Marine. 
Sargent, agreed.

He went on to explain to her this very thing happened recently to a recruit.
And now that kid cannot join.....

I explained to the Sargent that I trust my daughter will make good decisions, BUT at 19, she does not yet possess the discernment skill set to objectively assess a situation and know when to get out.......that I expect the Marines to train her to excel in this area.....but she's not there yet.
I am not trying to 'control' her, but she has 3-4 months before she ships out and I would like for her to NOT be put in ANY situation that could ruin this opportunity.
Sargent agreed.

I told him if she insisted on moving out, fine. She can have her phone and computer, but because the car is in my name I cannot risk the liability that she ends up on the corner of "bad decision and regret" and I am held responsible because everything is in my name.
Sargent agreed.

He told her home was a better option.
But he asked me if I would compromise, lift her 12am cerfew, IF she called well in advance to let me know where she would be. Communication solves a ton of problems.
I agreed.

I let him know on no uncertain terms, I totally understand WHY she wants to go.....and if it were to live with her friend that she's been friends with forever, I would have much much less of a problem.
And that I 110% support her decision to be a Marine.

1. He was afraid I was gonna come in and eat him alive for "taking my baby". After an hour, he knew I was 100% behind her, and only want the best for her. He was very thankful that I came in.

2. He also gave me a website that allows me to see public police records.

I did not get 100% what I wanted
She did not get 100% what she wanted.
But we came out with an agreement and understanding.
And a Sargent that probably needed a nap after the 2.5 hours we were there.

He showed her and I all the jobs female qualify for (all of them because her score was very high). He explained the process to me, in detail.
He was amazing.

I am SO glad I 'popped off at the mouth' here.
Vented here.
Said things in anger here.

Instead of at her, or her recruiter.

Thanks for all the input. Most of it was spot on.


----------



## Laura Zone 5

On the way to the recruiters, I apologized.

I asked her forgiveness for not letting him walk 3 years ago, for 'trying to make it work' and for all the incredibly stupid idiotic things I did. 
(I spelled those out, too many to list here)

I explained to her WHY I did what I did......
BUT BUT BUT 
That is NO excuse
Just an explanation.
I thought I was doing 'the right thing'.....and clearly it was not.
I made a series of mistakes, each one greater than the one before, that did major damage.

My visual was a vase.
It's beautiful, it's on the mantle. 
It falls, and smashes on the ground.
You can glue it back together, but it's not the same.
She said 'yeah, and sometimes little chards get missed on the floor, and it's never 'whole' again'.
I said 'yes'.

I tried to glue those pieces so well no one would notice the cracks.
But it doesn't work that way.
That's not real life.

I was a 'kitty cat' and didn't 'man up' and hit the road, when I should have and I dragged all 3 of them down the turd trail.
I was weak, and that I am sorry.

I told her if she lost all respect for me, I don't blame her.
But to please, give me the opportunity to earn that respect, back.

After that....she softened up, and began speaking to me.
Even told me she loved me.


----------



## nehimama

I'm so glad to read this update, Laura! You and your daughter must both feel *so* much better now!


----------



## CountryCabin

Laura, you made these old eyes water with that post.

What a great Mom you are and what a great daughter you have.

So glad its worked out so well for both of you!


----------



## viggie

So happy for you. It's amazing what a victory can do for our whole outlook.


----------



## Laura

LauraZ5 there a few things going on and they are normal stages of life we all pass through with the addition of divorce. How we understand and handle them controls the outcome of our relationships.

It's NORMAL for 18 year olds to psychologically prepare themselves for apron string cutting by being total jackasses until we want to tell them, don't let the door hit you. Separation anxiety. I found it easy to comfort my friends when their kids did this right before flying the coop, I was not prepared for what my own kid threw at me.

I let her go. I raised her to be a strong, smart, independent woman capable of figuring out life. Scary knowing Wisdom takes experience, but I've always prayed for her and know she will get through. 

The toughest part is dealing with how emotionally dependent we are on our children. That is what they are trying to break with their assininity.

Throw the divorce on top of that and how that affects each of you individually and as a family. I've talked with quite a few kids whose parents divorced when they turned 18. Divorce dynamics suck. These kids have to option of stepping completely out of the adult stuff as the only stability they ever knew disintegrates.

Don't burn bridges with your kids. Seek understanding and healing. Root out the Truth and embrace your pain no more trying to stuff it. I'm almost 3 &1/2 years out of the marriage, I know my kids have been to hell and back. The cycle is completing and we're all coming out on top building new relationships with each other


----------



## CountryWannabe

I am so glad that you and your daughter have resolved your differences (for now) She needs you more now than she ever did. But she needs you in the background as support when she needs it, not up close and personal as a prop. 

I raised both a son and a daughter. I remember when I knew nothing and they knew everything. It sucked. But I bit my tongue, let them go as they needed to and made sure that they always knew that their rooms were always there, there was always a meal ready for the table and that I always had a shoulder for them to cry on and a pair of arms to hug them with. Did that make our lives deliriously happy - all rainbows and butterflies? I wish! But it did enable us to keep in touch, and now we can meet and talk as one adult to another (they are 38 & 41 now) we are good friends. In another 20 years you will be glad you took the high road. Till then - grit your teeth and pull up the Big Girl Panties. (hugs)

Mary


----------



## Patchouli

Fowler said:


> Bless your heart.


No real argument so you just descend to insults instead. How mature.


----------



## po boy

Laura Zone 5 said:


> After that....she softened up, and began speaking to me.
> Even told me she loved me.


 Being a parent is the toughest job in the world.
Payday is great!
Congratulations!
Please thank your daughter for her service for me.


----------



## Patchouli

Laura Zone 5 said:


> First, I will address the above AMAZING great advice.
> My daughter and I sat down w the Sargent.
> I voiced my concerns about her wanting to move in with a female, she has known for 45 days.....that said female, and other co-workers that my daughter and the female are 'friends' with are known for their drinking and recreational drug use.
> She snorted: "You don't know her or the people I work with".
> To which I said "5 min on facebook, twitter, instagram and google tell me all I need to know, and those suspicions are verified through a police officer friend of mine."
> Sargent, his specialty? Intel.
> 
> Point one me.
> 
> I told the Sargent, I DO NOT worry about my daughter doing anything stupid, because becoming a Marine is her everything......but if her 'friend' has a friend, who brings a friend (who is being watched by the po po) into their apartment, and he has drugs on him, MY DAUGHTER can, and will be arrested, and it will ruin her chance forever of being a Marine.
> Sargent, agreed.
> 
> He went on to explain to her this very thing happened recently to a recruit.
> And now that kid cannot join.....
> 
> I explained to the Sargent that I trust my daughter will make good decisions, BUT at 19, she does not yet possess the discernment skill set to objectively assess a situation and know when to get out.......that I expect the Marines to train her to excel in this area.....but she's not there yet.
> I am not trying to 'control' her, but she has 3-4 months before she ships out and I would like for her to NOT be put in ANY situation that could ruin this opportunity.
> Sargent agreed.
> 
> I told him if she insisted on moving out, fine. She can have her phone and computer, but because the car is in my name I cannot risk the liability that she ends up on the corner of "bad decision and regret" and I am held responsible because everything is in my name.
> Sargent agreed.
> 
> He told her home was a better option.
> But he asked me if I would compromise, lift her 12am cerfew, IF she called well in advance to let me know where she would be. Communication solves a ton of problems.
> I agreed.
> 
> I let him know on no uncertain terms, I totally understand WHY she wants to go.....and if it were to live with her friend that she's been friends with forever, I would have much much less of a problem.
> And that I 110% support her decision to be a Marine.
> 
> 1. He was afraid I was gonna come in and eat him alive for "taking my baby". After an hour, he knew I was 100% behind her, and only want the best for her. He was very thankful that I came in.
> 
> 2. He also gave me a website that allows me to see public police records.
> 
> I did not get 100% what I wanted
> She did not get 100% what she wanted.
> But we came out with an agreement and understanding.
> And a Sargent that probably needed a nap after the 2.5 hours we were there.
> 
> He showed her and I all the jobs female qualify for (all of them because her score was very high). He explained the process to me, in detail.
> He was amazing.
> 
> I am SO glad I 'popped off at the mouth' here.
> Vented here.
> Said things in anger here.
> 
> Instead of at her, or her recruiter.
> 
> Thanks for all the input. Most of it was spot on.


Sounds like your Sergeant had a lot of common sense. I can not believe he sat there for 2 and a half hours with you playing therapist. 

I do find it interesting you assume neither the recruiter or your daughter can find you as easily on the internet as you found her and her friends.


----------



## shanzone2001

Patchouli said:


> Sounds like your Sergeant had a lot of common sense. I can not believe he sat there for 2 and a half hours with you playing therapist.
> 
> I do find it interesting you assume neither the recruiter or your daughter can find you as easily on the internet as you found her and her friends.


And I find it interesting that you feel the need to continue to write negative comments. 
We get it...you disagree with most of what she is doing. :bash:


----------



## Fowler

Patchouli said:


> No real argument so you just descend to insults instead. How mature.


You must be new here, everyone already knows that.:hysterical:


----------



## Fowler

shanzone2001 said:


> And I find it interesting that you feel the need to continue to write negative comments.
> We get it...you disagree with most of what she is doing. :bash:


Leave her alone!! She's the mature one....LOL!!!


----------



## shanzone2001

Sometimes being the mature one is remembering that if you don't have anything nice to say, maybe you shouldn't say anything at all!!!


----------



## Laura Zone 5

Patchouli said:


> Sounds like your Sergeant had a lot of common sense. I can not believe he sat there for 2 and a half hours with you playing therapist.
> 
> I do find it interesting you assume neither the recruiter or your daughter can find you as easily on the internet as you found her and her friends.



Notice the last 6 words I said was:

Most of it was spot on....

Don't worry, I was not talkin' about you!

nope, not therapist.
Seems the Marines give a rip about their recruits...oooorah mother truckers.
Most of the time was him telling her what she was going to be doing this week, explaining job options, explaining how those jobs transfer into civilian life, etc.
We spent maybe, 30 min on the personal stuff.

And um derr I know he can find me on the net........him and anyone else with half a brain. 

This had a happy ending, which clearly, a handful are less than pleased with, and that's ok. 
I posted in ST because the folks that frequent here are a great group of people.....
Funny how so many negative non regular frequenters came in just to take a poke at me, and continue to do so.
Sorry, this was a happy ending. Keep searching for someone else in pain to prod. Bless your heart....


----------



## Terri

PEACE, people!

Laura Zone 5 came to us in great distress: after a lot of venting and some hard parenting work the crisis is over. Must we find something else to get upset about?

Advice was given as each person thought best and that was a very fine thing: of course we did not all agree with each other! Let us not now argue about the correct way to argue, for Pete's sake!:stars: Because that is an argument that will NEVER have an ending, LOL!


----------



## shanzone2001

Who is upset? Why do people always assume someone is upset and demand we stop having a discussion??? 

Honestly, I think there has been quite a bit of peace in this thread. Compassion and kindness as well. Why make more of it than it is???


----------



## Laura Zone 5

IKR?
Add that one to the list I PM'ed you....I'm getting old, and ish slips my mind LOL.

Thanks Terri. You rock.


----------



## sustainabilly

OK That's it! Y'all are forcin' me into some major thread drift. This poor horse has been beat so bad it'd fail the Elmer's Glue entrance exam. All this fussing...and fighting... Oy! Vat a headache!

Just remember...I warned ya.

I mean, really ... think about it. Singletree is HT's version of "The Island of Misfit Toys." Everyone's broken, confused, in denial, 'n gennrly messed up. Or...just plain crazy. What's wrong with accepting a little ranting and venting and whining and crying and moaning-- okay, scratch the moaning. That can actually mean a good thing...sometimes.:trollface
Sorry for the rant. No really. Luv ya, mean it.

I guess now would be as good a time as any for me to set an example and show y'all it's okay to be different. Diversity can be enlightening. Hey, Mi casa es su casa 'n all that. Kapicshe?

Hi?! I'm Charlie. I like the snow, Christmas, and moving my arms around alot. Walks-err-hops in the rain, a strong woman, ('specially during the rain when my box gets flooded), and- Oh! did I tell you I'm an actor? I love, love, love schmoooshing w/celebs. Check out my pics.

View attachment 19199

Just popping around.

View attachment 19200

Roughing it. I'm the homesteader type._ Who's_ your woodsman!? *Who's *your woodsman!? 

View attachment 19201

And just to show ya I'm no easy target. My ex. After she realized what she'd given up.

Get with me girls and you too could be rubbing shoulders with the rich and famous!!!

View attachment 19202

The Prez (BFF BO) 'n me at my annual "Musicals Are Magic" gala affair. Hey! Wait! They photoshopped me out! Barry, How could you?! Nooo!!


----------



## Laura Zone 5

Did someone say moaning?


----------



## Fowler

I couldnt read past moaning either....LOL


----------



## wr

I'm glad to hear that you and your daughter have found some middle ground and were both able to compromise.


----------



## Becka03

Terri said:


> PEACE, people!
> 
> Laura Zone 5 came to us in great distress: after a lot of venting and some hard parenting work the crisis is over. Must we find something else to get upset about?
> 
> Advice was given as each person thought best and that was a very fine thing: of course we did not all agree with each other! Let us not now argue about the correct way to argue, for Pete's sake!:stars: Because that is an argument that will NEVER have an ending, LOL!


Laura I sent you a pm - 
from what I can tell it is the same people slamming that slam all people who might be airing their feelings- 
'tis the season-

backing out now- as I am not single- and don't feel I should post in the single area- HINT HINT- if you ain't single I find it bizarre:stars: to argue with someone in the singletree threads


----------



## shanzone2001

There are a lot if married folks here who started out single but continue to post because we have made friends here.
Then there are the folks (married or single) who only post on threads where they can bash somebody.
lt is how forums work. Good thing the regulars know which posts are which.


----------



## Becka03

shanzone2001 said:


> There are a lot if married folks here who started out single but continue to post because we have made friends here.
> Then there are the folks (married or single) who only post on threads where they can bash somebody.
> lt is how forums work. Good thing the regulars know which posts are which.


that is fine if you are regular who has friends here- I get that- totally- 
and I consider myself a regular to HT- 
but not to ST- and as I was reading thru this thread- I saw lots who were not regulars- thrashing Laura


----------



## elkhound

Becka03 said:


> that is fine if you are regular who has friends here- I get that- totally-
> and I consider myself a regular to HT-
> but not to ST- and as I was reading thru this thread- I saw lots who were not regulars- thrashing Laura


you're my friend....i think you make great posts learning,doing,teaching as we all follow our life paths.


----------



## shanzone2001

I agree Becka and l have made the same observation. Like l said, we know who is here to help and who is here just to be mean. Laura knows who has her best interests in mind.
Join us anytime!!! =)


----------



## Becka03

elkhound said:


> you're my friend....i think you make great posts learning,doing,teaching as we all follow our life paths.


WOW- this made my night!
I want Laura to feel this too!


----------



## Becka03

shanzone2001 said:


> I agree Becka and l have made the same observation. Like l said, we know who is here to help and who is here just to be mean. Laura knows who has her best interests in mind.
> Join us anytime!!! =)


Thank you- this is what I am totally talking about Shanz!!! 
Amen


----------



## elkhound

we can have some knock down drag out fights over here..it use to get ugly before chuck put his foot down on us...its one thing for us to poke each other in the eyes and have our school yard fights..its another for pot stirrers to walk up and kick a regular while they are hurt and thrashing on the ground.

we kick,claw and bite each other...but render first aid to each other afterwards....lol


----------



## elkhound

Becka03 said:


> WOW- this made my night!
> I want Laura to feel this too!



you and i rub elbows in other areas here....i have missed you as of late there...you and your family doings i see great value in.

elkhound has several married members(male and female) in other areas here he values....i hope they realize it.


----------



## wr

I can't comprehend the need to dump on someone who's having a tough time. One can offer an opinion, suggestion or support without being rude or condescending and if that's not possible, it might be a good idea to look for another thread to read.


----------



## Twp.Tom

I think what is important here , is the relationship of a Loving Mother ,and her young Daughter-who's about to venture out on her own. Best Wishes to the both of you*


----------



## DUlrich

elkhound said:


> we kick,claw and bite each other...but render first aid to each other afterwards....lol


Maybe the ladies will wear cute nurse outfits while rendering the first aid? :happy:


----------



## michael ark

Bob hope said it best . Happiness is having a large well knit family in another city. (proverbs 31:6)Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Good luck and god bless. :buds:


----------



## Shygal

shanzone2001 said:


> I agree Becka and l have made the same observation. Like l said, we know who is here to help and who is here just to be mean. Laura knows who has her best interests in mind.
> Join us anytime!!! =)



A lot of people think I am here to be mean. I don't think I'm mean, I think I say things bluntly, and say things that a lot of people WANT to say but just can't for whatever reason.

A lot of things I point out, are like the elephant in the room. Everyone sees it but doesn't want to come out and say its there. 

I know you weren't naming names, I just thought about this when reading your post, and having been called mean a couple times :cowboy:


----------



## Paumon

So how many posts per day or week or month or year is a person expected to make in ST before they're considered a "regular"?


----------



## shanzone2001

Shy, read post #88. =)


----------



## shanzone2001

Paumon said:


> So how many posts per day or week or month or year is a person expected to make in ST before they're considered a "regular"?


I am not sure if that is a sincere question or not, but since l was the one who used the term "regular" l will attempt to answer it. If course this is just my personal opinion.

Singletree has been compared to a bar where folks come to hang out. We laugh, cry, share stories and tease eachother. A regular is someone who comes here to join in. Some visit more often than others. On the other hand, some people just stop by and jump in when there is a "bar fight."


----------



## Paumon

shanzone2001 said:


> I am not sure if that is a sincere question or not, but since l was the one who used the term "regular" l will attempt to answer it. If course this is just my personal opinion.
> 
> Singletree has been compared to a bar where folks come to hang out. We laugh, cry, share stories and tease eachother. A regular is someone who comes here to join in. Some visit more often than others. On the other hand, some people just stop by and jump in when there is a "bar fight."


Well, yeah, it was actually a really _serious_ question for me. See you're talking about the ST clique. That's the regulars that hang out all the time in ST more than any other forum on HT, some of whom post exclusively on ST. 

The thing is, the OP is a regular poster on several forums on HT, not only on ST. The people you're saying are not regulars on ST are also regular posters on other forums on HT. The OP is very well known on other forums and many of the people that are not part of the ST clique are familiar with the OP and DO have plenty of regular discourse with the OP on other HT forums. 

I don't think it's right to discriminate against non-clique members who have regular discourse with the OP in other forums from posting their comments to the OP's posts in ST just because they're not members of the ST clique and because the ST clique members might not approve of their non-status quo posts. 

There are plenty of people who only post occassionally in ST, who are not members of the ST clique, but I think they should still feel comfortable to express themselves to any HT member that they would normally discourse with on any forum on HT, including in ST.

There's already a lot of cliquishness and discrimination happening on some of the other HT forums now, with some people even being banned from certain forums because they're not part of the group status quo and not considered "suitable" because of their different opinions. 

It's disappointing to see how many long term people have been either banned outright from all of HT or are being excluded from some HT forums lately and I sure would hate to see that status quo "_you aren't one of us_" cliquishness happening on ST. 

ST has historically always been the most broad-minded, friendly and welcoming of all the forums on HT and always been willing to give other posters the benefit of the doubt no matter who they are, what they believe in or where they hail from. It just doesn't feel right to see it becoming all territorial and exclusive now. Where else would there be for the misfits to fit in?


----------



## Fowler

Is this a game? Find how many times you can find the word clique in a post?

Cause I found 7...did I win?.....LOL


----------



## Ardie/WI

Fowler said:


> Is this a game? Find how many times you can find the word clique in a post?
> 
> Cause I found 7...did I win?.....LOL


Well, I'll be dipped in doggie doo-doo! I never knew about the cliques nor do I care! I post when I have something to say and shut up when I don't! Simple, isn't it! If I spot a doo-doo stirrer, I ignore he/she/it!


----------



## Fowler

Ardie/WI said:


> Well, I'll be dipped in doggie doo-doo! I never knew about the cliques nor do I care! I post when I have something to say and shut up when I don't! Simple, isn't it! If I spot a doo-doo stirrer, I ignore he/she/it!


Be careful were you step in here, or you might end up with dookie toes....LOL!!!


----------



## elkhound

i been makin home movies of ST gang......:help::thumb:ound:

somebody spin the prop we are taking the plane out today....lol


[YOUTUBE]3ilE639rtF8[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## elkhound

nothing better than a gang of puppies.

[YOUTUBE]ZhMgLUhzRa4[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## nehimama

Paumon said:


> So how many posts per day or week or month or year is a person expected to make in ST before they're considered a "regular"?


I don't know the number of posts it takes, but consider this: The clicque you observe probably consists of those "regulars" here at ST who have shared their most agonizing moments, their failures and their triumphs, their heartbreaks, their angst, and most importantly, their support of and compassion for the others here. Hmmmmm. Could that be it? They've shared deepy meaningful things, and they feel the bond?


----------



## farmerj

On the internet?


With faceless strangers they will likely never meet.


----------



## Terri in WV

Paumon said:


> The OP is very well known on other forums and many of the people that are not part of the ST clique are familiar with the OP and DO have plenty of regular discourse with the OP on other HT forums.
> 
> I don't think it's right to discriminate against non-clique members who have regular discourse with the OP in other forums from posting their comments to the OP's posts in ST just because they're not members of the ST clique and because the ST clique members might not approve of their non-status quo posts.


Regular discourse, regular discourse. This is what popped out at me.

Why are those that have a problem with the OP'er feel the need to bring their discourse here? One of the rules is not to import problems from another section.

It is NOT cliquish to offer support to another. It's also not cliquish to want to hang out in an area that is not always full of the discourse and bickering that other areas have become.

As you have noted, ones that only come here with negativity tend to get called out. The regulars, or as you say, the clique, tend to rally around and offer support when that happens. Wouldn't you like that kind of support too?


----------



## nehimama

farmerj said:


> On the internet?
> 
> 
> With faceless strangers they will likely never meet.


Okay, then. A clicque? On the internet?


With faceless strangers they will likely never meet.


----------



## farmerj

And just because some don't share the same sentiment and feel the op was out of line and stuck her nose someplace it didn't belong and actually CREATED a potentially more harmful situation doesn't make them wrong either.


----------



## elkhound

ah dude...some of us have met often here in real life.


----------



## Terri in WV

And a lot more of us would like to.


----------



## Fowler

farmerj said:


> On the internet?
> 
> 
> With faceless strangers they will likely never meet.


I met Whynot and City Bound:shrug: And talk on the phone to many others, along with recieving and mailing packages to some folks. Some of us are closer than one might preceive on ST.


----------



## farmerj

elkhound said:


> ah dude...some of us have met often here in real life.


Whom have you met then....

My point is while you may have met a few, not everyone you have met is in that same group. ( I'll give you that you've met some)

But there are plenty others on this forum who are not able to meet everyone you have met. Some may only be able to swing one or two meeting.

Are you willing to travel all the way to Minnesota just to put a name to a face? There are several of us up here. I'd love to meet a couple of folks close by here, but likely never will. Perham and northern MN are places I just don't make plans to visit in the near future.

IMO, the op created a situation she shouldn't have. In the end, she got lucky in how it worked out. That based off just the information that was posted. I'm also willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that she only presented a small portion of the information she felt relevant and there's a lot more we don't know.

It's also highly likely that one bad situation fed the other. Such is life. Things look me that happen in families divorcing. It sucks. Bad. Simply stater. Suck it up butter cup. Fix it and move on.


----------



## thequeensblessing

Being one of "those" married people who occasionally lurk on ST (that makes me sound voyeuristic doesn't it??), I want you to know that one of the things that draws me here are the friendships I've developed with some of you in other areas of HT as well as on FB. I know some of your struggles and having been single once, married, divorced, and married again, abused and beaten, divorced again, and finally married to my eternal companion for 22 years now, I can relate to what a lot of you are going through. You also help me out in ways you can't imagine. Like this thread here. I have had to learn the hard way, as a mother, with my own children (who are 30 and 32 now) who each struck out on their own, choosing different paths than I might have chosen for them. Thankfully, I think they are doing ok, despite choosing a different path. I had to come to the realization that they aren't me. I can't live vicariously through my kids. For nearly 20 years my sole reason for living was my kids. Suddenly, they wanted to have adventure and find their own way. They didn't need Mom anymore. They didn't realize, nor care, at that time, how much they hurt mom by their actions. I hurt me as well by some of my actions. I made the situation worse. I needed to find my own life again, to open a new chapter in my own book of life. Today, my kids and I are very good friends. We aren't carbon copies of each other, but we don't need to be. I'm proud of the people, parents, and productive society members they are. I can look at them and think, "Good job Mama!" as I know I have had some little part in the molding processes that have made them who they are today. We pick our babies up and kiss the skinned knees and as they get older, we teach them the tools they need to 1. avoid the fall to begin with, and 2. treat their own boo boos, as we know that we won't always be there to tend the wounds of life and living. Yet, when the day comes and the realization dawns that they have reached that point in life where they no longer need us, it hurts and it hurts bad. But the metamorphosis we fail to see so many times is that instead of needing, they have changed into wanting. It means a lot to have your grown child actually want you to be part of their lives. It means biting your tongue a lot. It means not saying "I told you so" when you are tempted to do so out of human pride or stubbornness (or arrogance?). It means saying "I was wrong and I'm proud of you" when you are tempted not to out of that same sense of human pridefulness (?). 
I'm not the kind who vents publicly, so I enjoy seeing the advice folks here give to those who have similar problems as I'm having or I've had in the past. Its like getting imput to my own problems without airing my own laundry, something I will rarely ever do.


----------



## Laura Zone 5

Paumon said:


> Well, yeah, it was actually a really _serious_ question for me. See you're talking about the ST clique. That's the regulars that hang out all the time in ST more than any other forum on HT, some of whom post exclusively on ST.


I think it's a good question, and a legit question.
Years ago, I 'asked permission' (I use that term because I cannot think of a better one) if I may post here, even though married, because the folks that post in here on a regular basis, were very 'real'. 
Plus the moderation, is outstanding.
I was told, by several, you don't "have" to be single, and this was not an "exclusive club", post away.

I have found if you want to be part of something, you have to be involved with it. 
I do love the 'bar fight' comparison.



> The thing is, the OP is a regular poster on several forums on HT, not only on ST. The people you're saying are not regulars on ST are also regular posters on other forums on HT. The OP is very well known on other forums and many of the people that are not part of the ST clique are familiar with the OP and DO have plenty of regular discourse with the OP on other HT forums.


In the last 6 months to a year, if you care, you can look at my posts, and I am pretty sure you will see a very distinct decline in my participation on other boards, and a increase in my participation in ST.
For many reasons, which I will not make pubic, I do not post in other places as often as I once did.....but you are correct, there was a time that I did post A LOT in other places....but not as of the last 6 months or more.



> I don't think it's right to discriminate against non-clique members who have regular discourse with the OP in other forums from posting their comments to the OP's posts in ST just because they're not members of the ST clique and because the ST clique members might not approve of their non-status quo posts.


Well, if it was discourse then you would be 100% right.
Badgering and bashing is not discourse, and may be part of the reason I no longer participate in those forums on a regular basis.
Not because the same handful of folks disagree, with everything I say, but find great pleasure in word manipulation for the sole intention of malice.
I post mainly in ST because that handful does not participate, ever, on this forum....until now....



> There are plenty of people who only post occassionally in ST, who are not members of the ST clique, but I think they should still feel comfortable to express themselves to any HT member that they would normally discourse with on any forum on HT, including in ST.


I would absolutely agree with you but here's the caveat:
State your thoughts, your opinions, your experiences, great.
Be 'part' of the conversation, great.
But don't just come in to a discussion with a participant that you KNOW you cannot stand......and try to act like you are giving.

I could creep the horse forum, goat forum, though I have no goat or horse, and throw in my 'dig, zing, poke' at a member.......because "it's part of HT" but what does that make me (other than a jerk, pot stirrer, debbie downer that no one wants to hear from?)?



> There's already a lot of cliquishness and discrimination happening on some of the other HT forums now, with some people even being banned from certain forums because they're not part of the group status quo and not considered "suitable" because of their different opinions.
> 
> It's disappointing to see how many long term people have been either banned outright from all of HT or are being excluded from some HT forums lately and I sure would hate to see that status quo "_you aren't one of us_" cliquishness happening on ST.


It a free world and a big internet.
Some folks quit posting in some areas, because that area no longer fits their lifestyle.

I honestly would love a forum named "Banned participants"
And it's closed, only mods can post.
But they post up "Do de do 385 was banned because.......
And there is an explanation.
That way all can see, and figure out for themselves, what the behavior is that is so intolerable, you can no longer participate.

And one of the reasons I mainly post in ST is the moderation is amazing.



> *ST has historically always been the most broad-minded, friendly and welcoming of all the forums on HT and always been willing to give other posters the benefit of the doubt no matter who they are, what they believe in or where they hail from.* It just doesn't feel right to see it becoming all territorial and exclusive now. Where else would there be for the misfits to fit in?


That is why I post here the majority of the time.
I felt like the outsider when I started posting years ago....because I was.
Time, and participation proved that I was not here to be a J.A., but to , be.

There's nothing wrong with being 'discerning'.


----------



## nehimama

farmerj said:


> Whom have you met then....


Not relevant!


----------



## Laura Zone 5

farmerj said:


> And just because some don't share the same sentiment and feel the op was out of line and stuck her nose someplace it didn't belong and actually CREATED a potentially more harmful situation *doesn't make them wrong either*.


RIGHT.
But I think you are a pretty bright person.....you can see there is a difference between 'disagreeing' and then, when it is announced that there was a happy ending.....
More negativity, snotty digs, etc are thrown out there.
That's not PARTICIPATING, that's being mad that their advice, was not right,(that HORRIBLE things will happen) and for some, even deeper more cynical.....

Again free world, big internet.

QueensBlessing: I am a 'cards on the table, all in kinda gal'. 
Not for the sake of being a DQ but dag gone it, I want answers, ideas, direction....ESPECIALLY from those who have been down that road before.
I appreciate genuine advice. Even if I don't agree with it. Even if it's harsh, etc.
I appreciate it.
I am pretty sure, in a couple of places, I thanked everyone who took the time to give thoughtful, genuine advice....


----------



## farmerj

Laura, it's not a dig at you, it's a statement towards the "clique" side bar.


----------



## farmerj

nehimama said:


> Not relevant!


Yes it is relevant.

Apparently there are some in this thread that feel unless you have met specific people here, your comments are now welcome and the rest of us can just leave.


----------



## elkhound

farmerj said:


> Whom have you met then....
> 
> My point is while you may have met a few, not everyone you have met is in that same group. ( I'll give you that you've met some)
> 
> But there are plenty others on this forum who are not able to meet everyone you have met. Some may only be able to swing one or two meeting.
> 
> Are you willing to travel all the way to Minnesota just to put a name to a face? There are several of us up here. I'd love to meet a couple of folks close by here, but likely never will. Perham and northern MN are places I just don't make plans to visit in the near future.
> 
> IMO, the op created a situation she shouldn't have. In the end, she got lucky in how it worked out. That based off just the information that was posted. I'm also willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that she only presented a small portion of the information she felt relevant and there's a lot more we don't know.
> 
> It's also highly likely that one bad situation fed the other. Such is life. Things look me that happen in families divorcing. It sucks. Bad. Simply stater. Suck it up butter cup. Fix it and move on.


surf this entire forum....they post threads about meet ups in different areas.

theres a few here in my area....i drove over and was gifted bourbon red turkey eggs to hatch from here.


----------



## Ardie/WI

Fowler said:


> Be careful were you step in here, or you might end up with dookie toes....LOL!!!


Naw, I don't even have to look where I step since I smell doo-doo long before I get too close! :thumb:


----------



## Fowler

farmerj said:


> Yes it is relevant.
> 
> Apparently there are some in this thread that feel unless you have met specific people here, your comments are now welcome and the rest of us can just leave.


I hear ya, I get :bash: on all the time,these ST people set me up!!
And you know who you are... They know I have a warped sense of humor and love flinging poo, and they intentionally intice me in with there laughter, witts, kindness, knowledge, support, mudd wrestling, beer cooler driving, jello eating, flirtation....dang you all!!! I have feelings too!!!! :Bawling:

Where's Terri, I need a pillow to cry on....LOL


----------



## Terri in WV

farmerj said:


> Yes it is relevant.
> 
> Apparently there are some in this thread that feel unless you have met specific people here, your comments are now welcome and the rest of us can just leave.


No, I don't think that's it.

It's more in the delivery. If all one ever does is to pop in to make negative remarks, then why should they feel that it would be welcomed?

As has been pointed out, this is generally a welcoming, supportive, and friendly place. Have you ever thought that it'd be nice to keep it that way?


----------



## shanzone2001

Yes, ST certainly IS one of the friendliest places here on HT.
That the reason so many folks here did not like the negativity some posters brought with them when they posted on this thread.....whether they know Laura from other forums or not. 
This isn't high school. There is no clique, but more often than not, the ones who can't play nice are the people who complain about there being one.


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## Terri in WV

Fowler said:


> Where's Terri, I need a pillow to cry on....LOL


Any time, dear!


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## Fowler

Recently with my children, I've learned that the more you explain or defend yourself, the more they will use it against you.

That's my personal wisdom for the day, being serious is exhausting for me...LOL


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## farmerj

Terri in WV said:


> No, I don't think that's it.
> 
> It's more in the delivery. If all one ever does is to pop in to make negative remarks, then why should they feel that it would be welcomed?
> 
> As has been pointed out, this is generally a welcoming, supportive, and friendly place. Have you ever thought that it'd be nice to keep it that way?


Delivery huh...

My wife told me I was wrong for my original comment of "suck it up buttercup"

But she also knows my situation well enough to understand why I said it.

Guess that's what makes people special. Their own unique view on life.

Not everyone presents thing in a pleasant politically correct fashion. Doesn't make them mean, vindictive or wrong. Just makes them different.


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## farmerj

Fowler said:


> Recently with my children, I've learned that the more you explain or defend yourself, the more they will use it against you.
> 
> That's my personal wisdom for the day, being serious is exhausting for me...LOL


Understatement of the year there.


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## Laura Zone 5

farmerj said:


> Delivery huh...
> 
> My wife told me I was wrong for my original comment of "suck it up buttercup"
> 
> But she also knows my situation well enough to understand why I said it.


Understand this.
Though I personally did not heed your advice, I had NO problem with the delivery.
THE PROBLEM is not 'you' or your input.
There are those who seek to kick the hornets nest, stir the pot, kick a man while he's down, etc......and it is THEY who are the target of this discussion.

They bring nothing to the table but strife, dissention, chaos, hate, and yuck. They are NOT offering an option, but more a 'statement' of how they hate / dispise the OP. For those who have been around for a couple or so years, it's obvious. For those who have not been around as long, it looks like 'clique-big meanies'.



> Guess that's what makes people special. Their own unique view on life.
> 
> Not everyone presents thing in a pleasant politically correct fashion. Doesn't make them mean, vindictive or wrong. Just makes them different.


With me, only speaking for myself, I ask questions here because I want REAL people to answer with REAL responses, from REAL experiences.
I don't want fluff.
I know what I get in ST, that is why I love it here.
It's just unfortunate that a handful of ish-stirrers come in for the ONLY purpose being to zing, zap, and jerk around.
They only "comment or 'like" posts that are anything that even HINTS that it is 'against / negative towards certain others" AND when something GOOD happens, they would NEVER post "a like" for a happy ending......never.


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## L.A.

I think I'm regular,,at least I've read all about it in the health forum,,,

I'm not never negative in my posts,,because negative is less than 0,,and I been told though I'm not a 10,,,*I AM A 0* !!!!!!:thumb:

I try not to get in the way,,,cause that would make me a boob,,,,,,_Right_ ????

I'm just here for the Ice Cream,,and maybe flirt a little bit,,,regularly of course


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## Fowler

farmerj said:


> Understatement of the year there.


:nana:


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## farmerj

Divorce sucks. It changes people and makes them into things at times yourself you don't like. Some of it out of shear personal protection.

It is bred out of distrust, pain and hurt. Creating walls and fronts that people fight to both destroy and protect. Both healthy and unhealthy at the same time.


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## Fowler

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Understand this.
> Though I personally did not heed your advice, I had NO problem with the delivery.
> THE PROBLEM is not 'you' or your input.
> There are those who seek to kick the hornets nest, stir the pot, kick a man while he's down, etc......and it is THEY who are the target of this discussion.
> 
> They bring nothing to the table but strife, dissention, chaos, hate, and yuck. They are NOT offering an option, but more a 'statement' of how they hate / dispise the OP. For those who have been around for a couple or so years, it's obvious. For those who have not been around as long, it looks like 'clique-big meanies'.
> 
> With me, only speaking for myself, I ask questions here because I want REAL people to answer with REAL responses, from REAL experiences.
> I don't want fluff.
> I know what I get in ST, that is why I love it here.
> It's just unfortunate that a handful of ish-stirrers come in for the ONLY purpose being to zing, zap, and jerk around.
> They only "comment or 'like" posts that are anything that even HINTS that it is 'against / negative towards certain others" AND when something GOOD happens, they would NEVER post "a like" for a happy ending......never.


 
Insert statement here: the more you explain or defend yourself, the more they will use it against you.


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## Laura Zone 5

Can we talk about what I saw in the hot tub when I was in Ft. Meyers?


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## Fowler

Yes!!! and please tell me there was Jello involved!


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## nehimama

Yes, Please, Laura! Got pics? LOL!


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## farmerj

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Can we talk about what I saw in the hot tub when I was in Ft. Meyers?


Baby Ruth bars don't count.


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## Laura Zone 5

The gods must have hand selected this man, 6'3 230lbs of solid muscle.....then grabbed him by his heel, dipping him delicious milk chocolate, and put him on earth.......

I was sitting by the pool having a smoky treat when this poor kid got out of the tub, and walked by. 
Make no mistake, he knew what he was doing....but the fact he was half my age, and my mouth was hanging wide open when I unapologetically gawked him all the way back inside? OMGosh I am glad I don't play poker......

Shewww weee....I love me some Florida!!


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## elkhound

oh no here we go....on the slip and slide...lol.


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## Fowler

farmerj said:


> Baby Ruth bars don't count.


 
ROTF!!! You said a funny and it made me snort...LOL!!!:hysterical:


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## doingitmyself

A snort is better than a toot.... ound:


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## farmerj

Fowler said:


> ROTF!!! You said a funny and it made me snort...LOL!!!:hysterical:




You are not allowed to laugh at my stuff. Nothing I say is funny as I have been repeatedly told I have zero sense of humor.......




As such........





No soup for you......


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## Laura Zone 5

nehimama said:


> Yes, Please, Laura! Got pics? LOL!


Only the one in my mind...and some how it keeps getting harder and harder to focus because of steam? HAHAHHAHAHHAHAH


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## farmerj

Laura Zone 5 said:


> The gods must have hand selected this man, 6'3 230lbs of solid muscle.....then grabbed him by his heel, dipping him delicious milk chocolate, and put him on earth.......
> 
> I was sitting by the pool having a smoky treat when this poor kid got out of the tub, and walked by.
> Make no mistake, he knew what he was doing....but the fact he was half my age, and my mouth was hanging wide open when I unapologetically gawked him all the way back inside? OMGosh I am glad I don't play poker......
> 
> Shewww weee....I love me some Florida!!


Since he was offering, did you take him up......


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## Laura Zone 5

farmerj said:


> Since he was offering, did you take him up......


How to keep my answer "G".........


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## MichaelZ

I agree with the OP. But I would also make sure I get the kids. Also, I would try my darndest to not bad-mouth the ex in any way in front of the kids, but rather pray for the spouse and get the kids to do the same. Tough I think, but I would hope I could do this.


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## KnowOneSpecial

After reading the update after the Marine visit I'm wondering.....can you hug the snot out of a Sergeant?! That guy just may have well saved your daughters life!


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## shanzone2001

Hug a Marine??? Yummy! Darn it....l am married! l will just hug my yummy cop.


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## Fowler

farmerj said:


> You are not allowed to laugh at my stuff. Nothing I say is funny as I have been repeatedly told I have zero sense of humor.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As such........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No soup for you......


Fine


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## Ardie/WI

Laura Zone 5 said:


> The gods must have hand selected this man, 6'3 230lbs of solid muscle.....then grabbed him by his heel, dipping him delicious milk chocolate, and put him on earth.......
> 
> I was sitting by the pool having a smoky treat when this poor kid got out of the tub, and walked by.
> Make no mistake, he knew what he was doing....but the fact he was half my age, and my mouth was hanging wide open when I unapologetically gawked him all the way back inside? OMGosh I am glad I don't play poker......
> 
> Shewww weee....I love me some Florida!!


Girl, you'are never too old to appreciate a good looking man. Ask me how I know.


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## farmerj

Fowler said:


> Fine


I'm warnin' ya.......

[YOUTUBE]ScGPRsHSkaE[/YOUTUBE]


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## sustainabilly

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I think it's a good question, and a legit question...
> In the last 6 months to a year, if you care, you can look at my posts, and I am pretty sure you will see a very distinct decline in my participation on other boards, and a increase in my participation in ST.
> For many reasons, which I will not make *pubic*, I do not post in other places as often as I once did.....but you are correct, there was a time that I did post A LOT in other places....but not as of the last 6 months or more...


He heh he heh--she said pubic, heh he heh.


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## Fowler

LOL.."For many reasons, which I will not make *pubic"* I was thinking something differant.....nevermind...LOL


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## topofmountain

Laura,
I wish you the best. Remember God is in charge, seek his direction
I sent you a PM.


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## SimplerTimez

Laura Zone 5 said:


> The gods must have hand selected this man, 6'3 230lbs of solid muscle.....then grabbed him by his heel, dipping him delicious milk chocolate, and put him on earth.......
> 
> I was sitting by the pool having a smoky treat when this poor kid got out of the tub, and walked by.
> Make no mistake, he knew what he was doing....but the fact he was half my age, and my mouth was hanging wide open when I unapologetically gawked him all the way back inside? OMGosh I am glad I don't play poker......
> 
> Shewww weee....I love me some Florida!!


Trust me, it's only a show for the tourists.... (grin)

Or, he swings t'other way (sigh)

EDTA: Also, he may think gardening is 'icky' or that cruises, townhomes and golf are the nirvana goal. I cannot WAIT to get out of here!

~ST


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## willow_girl

> The gods must have hand selected this man, 6'3 230lbs of solid muscle.....then grabbed him by his heel, dipping him delicious milk chocolate, and put him on earth.......
> 
> I was sitting by the pool having a smoky treat when this poor kid got out of the tub, and walked by.
> Make no mistake, he knew what he was doing....but the fact he was half my age, and my mouth was hanging wide open when I unapologetically gawked him all the way back inside? OMGosh I am glad I don't play poker......


I dunno, Laura ...

The Bible says if you look at a member of the opposite sex with lust, it's the same as committing adultery ...

And I have always believed it's better to be shot for a sheep than a lamb! ound:


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## okiemom

Great job!!!!! You said that with great grace and logic. You have fought for your daughter and I believe have won, the battle, if not the war. Now it is on her. Please take some time for yourself. it is a huge change for you and you are learning who you are now, who you always have been, but have repressed.
Life is always changing and shifting. Death, divorce, job losses, it all makes for a need for self awareness. Now please take the time to be nice to yourself and find out what is your passion and take wings,GO. just like your daughter is doing. You are so strong, you can do this. find your passion and fly. 





Laura Zone 5 said:


> First, I will address the above AMAZING great advice.
> My daughter and I sat down w the Sargent.
> I voiced my concerns about her wanting to move in with a female, she has known for 45 days.....that said female, and other co-workers that my daughter and the female are 'friends' with are known for their drinking and recreational drug use.
> She snorted: "You don't know her or the people I work with".
> To which I said "5 min on facebook, twitter, instagram and google tell me all I need to know, and those suspicions are verified through a police officer friend of mine."
> Sargent, his specialty? Intel.
> 
> Point one me.
> 
> I told the Sargent, I DO NOT worry about my daughter doing anything stupid, because becoming a Marine is her everything......but if her 'friend' has a friend, who brings a friend (who is being watched by the po po) into their apartment, and he has drugs on him, MY DAUGHTER can, and will be arrested, and it will ruin her chance forever of being a Marine.
> Sargent, agreed.
> 
> He went on to explain to her this very thing happened recently to a recruit.
> And now that kid cannot join.....
> 
> I explained to the Sargent that I trust my daughter will make good decisions, BUT at 19, she does not yet possess the discernment skill set to objectively assess a situation and know when to get out.......that I expect the Marines to train her to excel in this area.....but she's not there yet.
> I am not trying to 'control' her, but she has 3-4 months before she ships out and I would like for her to NOT be put in ANY situation that could ruin this opportunity.
> Sargent agreed.
> 
> I told him if she insisted on moving out, fine. She can have her phone and computer, but because the car is in my name I cannot risk the liability that she ends up on the corner of "bad decision and regret" and I am held responsible because everything is in my name.
> Sargent agreed.
> 
> He told her home was a better option.
> But he asked me if I would compromise, lift her 12am cerfew, IF she called well in advance to let me know where she would be. Communication solves a ton of problems.
> I agreed.
> 
> I let him know on no uncertain terms, I totally understand WHY she wants to go.....and if it were to live with her friend that she's been friends with forever, I would have much much less of a problem.
> And that I 110% support her decision to be a Marine.
> 
> 1. He was afraid I was gonna come in and eat him alive for "taking my baby". After an hour, he knew I was 100% behind her, and only want the best for her. He was very thankful that I came in.
> 
> 2. He also gave me a website that allows me to see public police records.
> 
> I did not get 100% what I wanted
> She did not get 100% what she wanted.
> But we came out with an agreement and understanding.
> And a Sargent that probably needed a nap after the 2.5 hours we were there.
> 
> He showed her and I all the jobs female qualify for (all of them because her score was very high). He explained the process to me, in detail.
> He was amazing.
> 
> I am SO glad I 'popped off at the mouth' here.
> Vented here.
> Said things in anger here.
> 
> Instead of at her, or her recruiter.
> 
> Thanks for all the input. Most of it was spot on.


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## Laura Zone 5

willow_girl said:


> I dunno, Laura ...
> 
> The Bible says if you look at a member of the opposite sex with lust, it's the same as committing adultery ...
> 
> And I have always believed it's better to be shot for a sheep than a lamb! ound:


So what should I do now?


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## farmerj

Laura Zone 5 said:


> So what should I do now?


Take a white hot poker and burn your eyes out you heathen.


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## Patchouli

shanzone2001 said:


> Sometimes being the mature one is remembering that if you don't have anything nice to say, maybe you shouldn't say anything at all!!!


Only saying the nice thing doesn't necessarily help people does it? If you see someone making a mistake are just supposed to encourage them along in it?


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## Terri

willow_girl said:


> I dunno, Laura ...
> 
> The Bible says if you look at a member of the opposite sex with lust, it's the same as committing adultery ...
> 
> And I have always believed it's better to be shot for a sheep than a lamb! ound:


 Nope: adultery is when one of the people is married. Laura is single!:angel:



Laura Zone 5 said:


> So what should I do now?


Perhaps you should bring a napkin with you to the hot tub just in case you drool?:kiss:


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## krochetnkat

I know I am coming in late in the game but let me just say... when I was 17 I met a man in Alaska. I knew he wasn't good for me, but the more I talked about him... the more my mother forbid it. Finally he visited me in Ohio and by the age of 18 I was getting married and packing my bags for Alaska. I probably would have never married him had she just let me learn from my mistakes and see him for what he was. I realize this is different from the military... This man made 5 years of my life pretty miserable. Cheated on me with the town bicycle, wouldn't work to save his life, while I had two jobs and ran dogs. I was always busy and taking my misery out in my work. I also made the mistake of not leaving him immediately... and when my mother got sick and I went home for a month to help... he disappeared. He left with that woman and left ALL of my dogs without food or water. He drained my bank account to where I couldn't get home and I was 4500 miles away just trying to get people to take care of my animals and trying to afford to get them shipped to Ohio. It's all one huge life lesson. I don't regret marrying him only because of my life in Alaska. I met great people and adopted my daughter... but it's a good lesson to me on how to handle difficult situations with my kids


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## sidepasser

I've been looking at the title of this thread for days and my first reaction is the one I had when my first husband left me for a blonde bimbo that he took up with when we had twin girls that weren't even crawling.

When a man asks for divorce due to infidelity, the first thing I do is calmly walk over and hold the door and tell him "don't let it hit you in the kiester on the way out, the papers will be served and I hope you don't lose your job".

In other words, a man don't ask for a divorce if he don't want one. So give him what he wants and save the whole family a lot of drama. 

After working for a domestic relations attorney for seven years, I found that the majority of men who ask for a divorce, - they have thought this through pretty well and have planned for it. Many had no one on the side, they just didn't want the one that they had. Those that had a honey on the side - well they pretty much had made their minds up and didn't care what it cost them to cut loose the old wife in exchange for a new one. 

Had a lot of kids ask during interviews with moms/dads - why did it take you so long? Especially those couples that "waited till the kids were grown". Kids are pretty smart, they know when things "aren't right".

So yep, if your cheating spouse asks for a divorce, uhm...give it immediately, and get on with living well. That's the best that can happen, live your life well and move on.

And good for you and the marine sargent and kid. Kids will be kids and try our patience, I figure I have at least one grey hair for every time my kid "acted out".


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