# Fencing pigs in the woods.. and more!



## rlansdon (Jun 11, 2012)

I have a question for this expert panel.  We have about an acre or so of woods on our little farm and while I know there are threads on fencing in the woods in this forum, I have an additional detail I need help with. The area that we want to use is probably perfect for pigs since there are 3 or 4 giant white oaks that will drop loads of acorns for them to snack on, but the area that I live in also has a lot of coyotes. What I would like to hear are your inputs on how to help lower the risk of losing my pigs to coyotes fencing wise or some other deterrents you would recommend? We are new to farming since we just purchase a place, but we are currently housing pigs for the local 4-H in our barn and are getting comfortable with keeping them. Also, the area we want to use was, at one time, used as a place to put materials like corrugated metals and there are a few old 55 gallon drums that have rusted out. How good are pigs at not getting hurt or should I try and completely remove everything before putting pigs back there? Our end goal is to keep 5 or 6 pigs per year on the acre and sell them for high quality pork each year.

Any and all recommendations would be appreciated. 

Thanks!

Rick


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Good hot fences and livestock guardian dogs solve the coyote problem. Fences define the boundaries, dogs mark, patrol and enforce the boundaries. Our dogs eat coyotes and other pests. Note that this is a pack war thing - a single dog against a pack of coyotes can only make noise and threat. A pack of coyotes will out flank the single dog. It takes a pack of livestock dogs to wage war and win. That's what it takes if you have strong predator pressures. A pack of coyotes can take down an adult pig. Piglets are easy pickings for coyotes and foxes. Weaners to roaster are doable for a lone coyote.

I would suggest a 4' high outside perimeter fence with some type of physical barrier marking it. It can be as simple as a stone wall or logs or as great as hog panel or woven wire. A hot wire on top and then one on the outside at nose level for predators. A hot wire at low and walking nose level for the livestock on the inside. The goal is to convince the predators to move along and look elsewhere for easier pickings.

Get a good fence energizer of at least 2.5 joules. 6 joules is better. We run two 15 joule plus a 6 joule energizer for about 40 acres of pastures. Do a very good job with the grounding system and consider lightning protection if it is an issue in your area - big issue here. Don't connect two energizers to the same fence. Don't use a solar energizer for the fence. Too much money for too little result. Better to lay underground wire or fence from the house or wherever you have AC. If you can't do that then an AC energizer with a truck battery and inverter works. We use these which come in several capacities:

http://www.kencove.com/fence/Mains+Energizers_detail_EK15.php

I would suggest dividing the acre up into four to ten paddocks after you have the well established perimeter fence. The paddocks can be divided by simple polywire on step in posts. Then do managed rotational grazing. Very easy, very effective. Improves your soil and pasture quality over time while minimizing parasite loads. See:

http://www.google.com/search?q=site:sugarmtnfarm.com+managed rotational grazing

Acorns are wonderful. You are fortunate. We sadly don't have them. Beech nuts and others but no acorns, yet. There are a lot of good wild feeds in the woods but even more in mixed woods and pasture.

As the pigs dig up trash, remove it. If the drums held anything toxic then plan on farming elsewhere.

Go slowly and ease yourself into things. There is a lot to learn.


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## TamBerk (Aug 17, 2010)

I would not worry about coyotes attacking hogs. Coyotes are mainly solitary hunters and rarely run in packs. We have a lot of coyotes on our farm and I've never had a problem with them attacking hogs. I've had a few calf kills the last few years but never any hog kills. A good hot fence helps in keeping predators out. If you have bears around, I'd be more concerned with them.


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

TamBerk said:


> Coyotes are mainly solitary hunters and rarely run in packs.


This has not been my experience with yotes. While I've observed solitary hunters (usually adult males), most of the time they are hunting at least in tandem if not as a group. Whenever I'm hunting them, they usually approach a call from different angles downwind separately. Once their target is identified, they will converge and attack together.


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## DaziAcres (Jul 10, 2013)

As a first time pig owner, let me tell you a little of my experience.

We had the pigs (35-50 lbs each when we got them) in hog fencing in the woods for a few days until we got our electric netting from Premier. They then moved around the woods every 3-4 days (once they had disturbed their area enough). 

We made it MUCH more complicated than it needed to be for awhile there! We should have had 4 net fences all the time, but for awhile, while they were small, we had 2 and 1 was big enough for them to be in until they started getting bigger. Then we'd set up the second net and move them into their new paddock. When they started getting bigger we added a 3rd net but that's where we made our mistake...we should have gone to 4 immediately so that they were in a paddock of 2 nets while we set up another, adjacent paddock of 2 nets. Let's just say it was stupid complicated until we got a little smarter. 

We had trouble with the netting being hot enough because we have a lot of bedrock on our farm and there were a few times they got out (that's ANOTHER story!). We never did get them trained to one wire in a big area and that was completely our failure; our next batches WILL be trained come hell or high water.

As for coyotes, I'm pretty sure the netting helped keep the piggies safe. A coyote will not jump into an area that he might not be able to get out of easily...that's why they like killing in more open areas. The netting would require them to jump a hot fence, make a kill, then have to stay in that enclosed place to eat and I just can't see a coyote doing that...maybe I'm wrong, but we never had trouble. I think the netting, while sometimes a pain in the butt to set up in the woods, kept them out.

Joel Salatin doesn't put his pigs in the woods until they're 100-150 lbs but we've found (so far) that they were okay. So far. Talk to me next spring after we're running two batches. ;-)

Like Walter said, ease into it. We got 5 pigs to start off with and they were a handful (no pun intended) at times, but well worth the money we've made selling them and we're anxious to get more.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

TamBerk said:


> I would not worry about coyotes attacking hogs. Coyotes are mainly solitary hunters and rarely run in packs.


Coyotes have been breeding with wolves around here as well as getting trained by the wolves to hunt in packs. We get packs of three to a dozen coyotes. They do attack and kill large animals including adult pigs. This is much of why we have a large pack of livestock guardian dogs. The coyotes have also been upping their sheep, donkey, cattle and horse kills. They've adapted.


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## Hexe (Mar 8, 2007)

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I really want to ask the question:

Everybody that has had a lot of coyote trouble, is there any pressure on "your" coyotes from hunting? I'm talking either hunting dogs - NOT LGD's, or somebody taking them over bait.


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## TamBerk (Aug 17, 2010)

highlands said:


> Coyotes have been breeding with wolves around here as well as getting trained by the wolves to hunt in packs. We get packs of three to a dozen coyotes. They do attack and kill large animals including adult pigs. This is much of why we have a large pack of livestock guardian dogs. The coyotes have also been upping their sheep, donkey, cattle and horse kills. They've adapted.


 Wolves in Vermont, Really! Coyotes and wolves crossbreeding is a very rare occurrence. The reason you may have more problems with coyotes is that you live in a heavily wooded area with less deer and other critters for them to kill. Down here in southeast New York, we have an abundance of deer and better habitat for them to thrive resulting in a better food source for coyotes. That's probably why they don't bother my hogs and besides who wants to mess with a hog. Hogs in the wild have thrived because they have few predators.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

There are a number of scientific articles and FW articles about the wolf-coyote crossing of both genes and hunting techniques. They say it is not rare. We have plenty of deer, rabbits and such. We rarely have trouble with the coyotes because we have a large pack of our own to protect our livestock but other people in the area regularly lose animals to the coyotes. Coyotes also are not the only predator pressure. A neighbor lost her dog and nearly immediately lost all her chickens to a fisher.

Who wants to mess with a hog you ask?
Ravens
Crows
Eagles
Foxes
Coyotes
Bears
Cougar
all will go after piglets to adult pigs depending on the predator's size and group size. Just because you haven't seen the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

On the question of hunting, the coyotes are hunted around here both by us and hunters. It is open season all year for coyotes.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

highlands said:


> There are a number of scientific articles and FW articles about the wolf-coyote crossing of both genes and hunting techniques. They say it is not rare. We have plenty of deer, rabbits and such. We rarely have trouble with the coyotes because we have a large pack of our own to protect our livestock but other people in the area regularly lose animals to the coyotes. Coyotes also are not the only predator pressure. A neighbor lost her dog and nearly immediately lost all her chickens to a fisher.
> 
> Who wants to mess with a hog you ask?
> Ravens
> ...


I have all the above plus, Owls,Hawks. I lost small pigs to Hawks,Owl,Golden Eagle, until i got the guard dogs and also shot a few of the above. 
What a surprise early one morning when i went out to feed the pigs. A hawk,a big owl and a golden eagle all in trees looking down at my 3 week old piglets. By that time i had already lost a few piglets. After taking care of that problem no more pigs went missing.


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