# male alpacas as guard animals?



## JJFarmer

I've seen alpacas before used just as someone would a llama to guard their sheep and they do have a very high drive to keep predators away and don't seem to be scared of nothing (at least not the ones I have). 

One question that's always been on my mind is would a person have to worry about a intact alpaca breeding say goats and sheep? I've never been brave enough to run my dairy does with mature alpacas just because I'm not convinced they wouldn't. 

Anyone use intact male llama or alpaca to guard sheep or goats?


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## Fowler

JJFarmer said:


> I've seen alpacas before used just as someone would a llama to guard their sheep and they do have a very high drive to keep predators away and don't seem to be scared of nothing (at least not the ones I have).
> 
> One question that's always been on my mind is would a person have to worry about a intact alpaca breeding say goats and sheep? I've never been brave enough to run my dairy does with mature alpacas just because I'm not convinced they wouldn't.
> 
> Anyone use intact male llama or alpaca to guard sheep or goats?


I would never use and intact llama for guarding sheep.
they will try to mount them...they are so big...and they are not meaning too but they will squish them to death. I did a ton of research on buying a llama and a donkey and decided to invest in Maremma dogs. And a gelded llama in the future.

Just my 2 cents


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## JJFarmer

At what age would be best to castrate an alpaca for the job? I have a couple at varying ages. I know it's not the norm to castrate male alpacas until they're 4 or 5 but seems like if the sex drive (excuse my laymen terminology) is established it'd still be an issue. Is my thinking wrong?


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## thaiblue12

Alpacas are not guardian animals, they are prey. They run in just as fast and a hard as the goats do if a coyote is around. Now they get a little brave toward my LGD pin their ears back and act like they are going to spit. They prefer not to spit and mainly threaten it, they may do it half hearted but they have no real defense against predators. They spit and kick backward that is all. 

Anything intact I would not trust around babies, especially if they are young, full of testoterone and are not breeding their own kind.


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## JJFarmer

thaiblue12 said:


> Alpacas are not guardian animals, they are prey. They run in just as fast and a hard as the goats do if a coyote is around. Now they get a little brave toward my LGD pin their ears back and act like they are going to spit. They prefer not to spit and mainly threaten it, they may do it half hearted but they have no real defense against predators. They spit and kick backward that is all.
> 
> Anything intact I would not trust around babies, especially if they are young, full of testoterone and are not breeding their own kind.


I've never seen an alpaca run from a predator; I have seen them stomp the hell out of the neighbors dog who got in their pasture as well as one dog had a chunk taken out of his head when he couldn't get out of the pasture in time. 

Have you never seen an alpaca fight? It comes away with hair, hide and blood. Their bottom lip pulls back from their teeth and they gore with their bottom teeth. I'd be intimidated if I didn't have 9 years of experience with them.

The experience I haven't had with them is put with other livestock. 

I have enough personal experience with alpacas and stray dogs that I'm sure they make great guard animals, at least for their own kind. The question would be if they'd protect other livestock.


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## redroving

We got two neutered male alpacas and introduced them to our sheep and they bonded very well. One turned into the flock leader and all the sheep would follow his lead. One day two coyotes got in the pasture and one alpaca stayed out in front and stomped the ground while the other herded our flock into the barn's alleyway. The two alpacas gave a united front and watched the coyotes. After a while they actually went out and tried to run the coyotes down. A fox denned on our property and every time they would visit the pasture with the alpacas they would be chased. They tried to stomp our doberman and lab mix before they got used to them being with us. 
We are down to one alpaca (my avatar) and he is always on the alert to danger. He gives a loud alarm call and the sheep react by running to him and getting behind and looking at what all the commotion is. He will either run them into the barn or finally relax his guard. He alarms at any dog walking by outside on the road or neighbors pasture. I don't trust them with newborn lambs since they may think of them as predators but within a month after lambing is finished I let them back in with the group.


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## thaiblue12

Maybe it is a male thing? Mine have never bitten, nor fought, I have girls only. They did have a spit off once over food but that was it, the pellets were pinging off the barn but missed me  

I wish I had a camera right now because just mins ago she freaked out over something and started a stampede. Mine run in fear from predators and expect the LGD to take care of it I guess


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## JJFarmer

redroving said:


> We got two neutered male alpacas and introduced them to our sheep and they bonded very well. One turned into the flock leader and all the sheep would follow his lead. One day two coyotes got in the pasture and one alpaca stayed out in front and stomped the ground while the other herded our flock into the barn's alleyway. The two alpacas gave a united front and watched the coyotes. After a while they actually went out and tried to run the coyotes down. A fox denned on our property and every time they would visit the pasture with the alpacas they would be chased. They tried to stomp our doberman and lab mix before they got used to them being with us.
> We are down to one alpaca (my avatar) and he is always on the alert to danger. He gives a loud alarm call and the sheep react by running to him and getting behind and looking at what all the commotion is. He will either run them into the barn or finally relax his guard. He alarms at any dog walking by outside on the road or neighbors pasture. I don't trust them with newborn lambs since they may think of them as predators but within a month after lambing is finished I let them back in with the group.


This is the type of attitude I get from my alpacas. They usher the crias and new mothers behind them and face the predator head on. I know in an instant if something is amiss just by glancing out the window at the alpacas. If they're calm then I know all is well. My alpacas and farm dog had learned how to work as a team (my farm dog passed last year and sorely missed) the alpacas would take notice and my farm dog would join in to make sure the property was safe. 

At what age did you castrate the male alpacas? Do you think a trio would be a better match for larger fields or do you think a pair works well enough?


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## JJFarmer

thaiblue12 said:


> Maybe it is a male thing? Mine have never bitten, nor fought, I have girls only. They did have a spit off once over food but that was it, the pellets were pinging off the barn but missed me
> 
> I wish I had a camera right now because just mins ago she freaked out over something and started a stampede. Mine run in fear from predators and expect the LGD to take care of it I guess


If you ever see an alpaca defending his herd full force you'd go pale. It's really a sight because just looking at them they look like soft lawn ornaments. My first female alpaca was a herd matriarch. She'd do the job of guardian and always kept close eye on all the crias. She's died since but her daughter has her natural nanny personality and takes special care of the crias and is as intimidating as the males if she has to be.


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## Fowler

JJFarmer said:


> At what age would be best to castrate an alpaca for the job? I have a couple at varying ages. I know it's not the norm to castrate male alpacas until they're 4 or 5 but seems like if the sex drive (excuse my laymen terminology) is established it'd still be an issue. Is my thinking wrong?



I dont know about Alpacas...as for llamas they geld them around 18 months. And they do not let them breed. If one has bred...they can still be gelded, it just takes awhile for that instinct to mount to go away.

I almost bought a intact male...he was adorable and loving. and was great with the dwarf goats...however....the owner had a female llama that kept him from mounting the goats.

I did a lot of research and called quite a few llama farms and was told the same thing time and time again. So it would be up to you to take that chance. It may or may not happen. Just remember Alpacas and llamas are also preditors and are in no way capable to defend off a pack of coyotes or wolves...their mere presence is what detours a coyote...but coyotes are very smart and if hungry enough...your llama/Alpaca becomes prey


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## JJFarmer

Another question. Would it be advisable to put a young male, say about 6 months old, with the livestock he would eventually be guarding to help him build better bond with new herd mates instead of his own kind?

I've never worked with livestock guardian type creatures besides what comes as natural instinct to the animals I have in my pastures. 

As far as a pack of wolves or coyotes, even a dog meant for the job would be hard pressed to ward off more than one or two predators. I would imagine. We don't have wolves where I'm at as yet though we do have cougar, bear, coyotes and lots of stray dogs. So far, knock on wood, 6 years without a loss to predators. (except the hen who died at the hands of a hawk)


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## AverageJo

I've had alpacas for about 15 years now. I've seen cria trying to 'mount' their mothers when they're laying down (cushed), so that 'instinct' is there from the beginning. If we've determined a male isn't stud quality, we geld them, normally at about 18 months. This gives them time to finish growing but they're cut before they reach full breeding capability (yes, they can actually be fertile at 12 months). We wean our cria/babies at 10-11 months, or about 2 months before their mother is to give birth again. These boys are put in an all-boy pasture. There they can chest butt and neck wrestle and bite each other, but it's normally an establishment of dominance and stops once they've been put in their place, with occassional uprisings. 

As for compatability with sheep and/or goats, we've put our herd sires in with our sheep or goats and have had no problems with mounting. We've also run our females with sheep ewes, but not rams or goats as they have more tendancy to butt! 

One heads up though! Sheep and goats will drop pellets anywhere whereas llamas and alpacas make piles. Please make sure everyone has been wormed on schedule at least twice before introducing the two breeds.


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## Fowler

JJFarmer said:


> I've seen alpacas before used just as someone would a llama to guard their sheep and they do have a very high drive to keep predators away and don't seem to be scared of nothing (at least not the ones I have).
> 
> One question that's always been on my mind is would a person have to worry about a intact alpaca breeding say goats and sheep? I've never been brave enough to run my dairy does with mature alpacas just because I'm not convinced they wouldn't.
> 
> Anyone use intact male llama or alpaca to guard sheep or goats?


Here are a few links that may help you get on your path,

http://www.llamas.co.nz/guard.htm
http://www.marylandalpacas.org/pages/alpacas_llamas.html
http://www.llama-llocater.com/guard_llama_guidelines.html
http://www.gsfalpacas.com/pob-predator-control-llama.html


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## redroving

JJFarmer said:


> This is the type of attitude I get from my alpacas. They usher the crias and new mothers behind them and face the predator head on. I know in an instant if something is amiss just by glancing out the window at the alpacas. If they're calm then I know all is well. My alpacas and farm dog had learned how to work as a team (my farm dog passed last year and sorely missed) the alpacas would take notice and my farm dog would join in to make sure the property was safe.
> 
> At what age did you castrate the male alpacas? Do you think a trio would be a better match for larger fields or do you think a pair works well enough?


We got the two alpacas already neutered so don't know what age they were done. The two worked together well but after the other died the one we have still works great and is boss of the flock for the last 4 years.


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