# Questions about My Future gaurdian angels



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I thought I had my 2 boys trained that when I said eeeccckk! that meant do not poke your head through the cattle panel.

This weekend I introduced them to my grandsons which Boomer wanted nothing to do with them and stayed away only coming up to smell and move out of there reach. Ziggy smelled them and stayed within reach but was undecided as to what to think about them. Ziggy has been really easy to train and he listens with contempt actually it's kinda creepy....lol anywho.. My grandsons left the paddock after 10 mins with them( because they wanted to chase and play with the new puppies)..and after leaving Ziggy now refuses to listen to my command. I was letting them be all alone with the sheep 30 min at a time...NOW...I cant trust him not to get out of the fence..Boomer thinks about it and pokes his head through then retreats when he hears me yelling eecckkk!!...I had no problem until Sunday. Any suggestions?

Also should my young LGD's be seperated? 

I pet them when they are good and come when told. Pet them not play. Also They are starting to jump up on me and have very sharp claws....I say down or sit...they seem to understand sit.
They are very playful with each other then the calm down and patrol the fence for smells and walk among the sheep. Follow the sheep, even though the sheep sometimes dont like it...lol they barked at racoon and anyone they are not familar with. 

Someone mention in another post about having a secret password when walking up on your dogs? I know I have to announce it's me and so does the rest of my family when approaching the paddock they wont stop barking til you do.

I guess I need reasurance that what I am doing is fine or not...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> They are starting to jump up on me


You need to break them of that before they get over 100 lbs.

I had to put 2 X 4 wire over a couple of gates to stop the dogs from going through.

A "hot" wire around the inside will stop them and also keep the sheep from rubbing on the fencing

Don't let people stand outside and interact with the dogs.

Either go right in with them , or leave them totally alone

*Never* let anyone feed them treats or pet them by reaching over the fence or gates


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

This is great advice...thank you so much for all your help with them...is there any suggestions on how to make them not jump on me? I am not treating them like normal dogs, they seem to understand without scolding them but continue to jump later. Should I scold them...or is there a preffered method/command/noise that I should be using or just the word down?

I know I sound like a retard...lol....I just wanna do right by them and have them be great LGD's without causing them to be upset at me and not listening...I hope you know what I mean?


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## raken (Mar 8, 2011)

I was told when the dog jumps up to put firm pressure on one of their rear feet. Not enough to hurt them obviously but it will be a natural reaction for them to come "down". If the dog is running toward you and crouches to jump on you bend your knee to block their jump. Following that make them sit and reward them with a pat or a scratch. I'm no expert but hope it will help.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> is there any suggestions on how to make them not jump on me


A knee to the chest, and a firm *NO*

Also, head them off by reaching down to pet them BEFORE they jump

Handle the dogs a lot, and get them used to letting you hold their feet so you can keep the nails trimmed.

Those dewclaws can be like razors


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

they need obedience training! easy to do with treats in hand.... or pocket.

If they have sit ... tell them to sit and give a treat. Pet, praise and in time you can treat every couple of times until they only get a treat once for being good dogs.

do not treat the dog when jumping... but as mentioned above, put in sit before they jump. Perhaps sit before you go in and then treat... while sitting.

Again... as mentioned above... handle these dogs! you should be able to handle their feet, tail, open their mouths and look inside, put in down and look at tummy, ears, in and out of everything. This must be done daily.

I would also put hot wire inside the fence so it sits about 6 inches away from fence, 3 wires.... top, middle and at base of fence.

I am one of those that trained the dogs to be with livestock and stay, come with me into the house and settle down in a spot, and into the show ring and with other dogs, into petsmart (their favorite place) and get pets, back to the farm to protect the farm and everything inside their fence.

It is hard to raise two pups together as they want to play usually moves on to chase. But it can be done with diligence. 

If these dogs are male and intact, you will want to neuter them or at least one. Intact dogs will fight... and it is serious! neuter dogs will fight too but mostly tiffs to see which one is boss. Intact dogs can be lured away by a female coyote in heat... the pack then kills the dog. Meat is meat!

Put all your efforts into training these dogs.... this will be a 24/7 job on everyones part until the dogs are 2-3 years of age. These dogs will train their replacements when it is time for these dogs to retire.

The secret password... it is always 'it's' ROFL!!!!

knock on the door..door opens... my kids friends say their name 'It's Kenny!' or someone drives up 'it's George', or in the farm yard 'it's ok'

'It's' is the password! I need the dogs to behave when people come to look or purchase livestock. I need too them to go lay down somewhere... they can watch but they must trust that I have everything under control. I don't need them attacking someone when I am their! I can't stress socialization in public is the key. When someone asks 'can I pet him' I say yes and immediately say 'its ok' to the dog with a little touch on their shoulder.

Dogs on a leash must behave! remember my dogs went from field to show with a little bath in between! <wink>

Dogs need to be comfortable traveling in a car. You never know when an emergency trip to the vet is needed. 

Training Treats can get expensive. I want treats that are small, tasty morsels. Milk bones take too long for the dog to eat and training takes forever! the dog wants to walk away to eat his treat or lay down. Defeats the purpose. I want tiny bites. You can use cat food pouches that has the soft food but not with gravy.

Petsmart sells a dog food tube.... "Pet Bionics" in chicken or lamb or beef. The large roll is $10, can be sliced and diced. Lasts a long time in refrigerator once opened. Great dog food but far too expensive too feed these big dogs. Great treats!

I also use Dehydrated Beef (or goat, lamb, rabbit) liver. Oh goodness does it stink while drying but oh it is magic! If I dry too long it can be broken into bite size pieces... chomp, chomp, swallow.. more! if it is still pliable, then I use scissors to cut into bite size pieces and eventually it dries hard.

I have dehydrators specifically for dehydrating liver and a place in the garage to do it! let my husband smell it! ROFL!!!! oh it does stink while drying. Once dry there is no noticeable smell.

I have found the dogs will line up for a liver treat. Make sure the kids also make the dogs sit for a treat. Sit and now they can get pet.

Livestock Guardians are so amazing!


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> A knee to the chest, and a firm *NO*
> 
> Also, head them off by reaching down to pet them BEFORE they jump
> 
> ...



You're right on that one...RAZORS!....Ziggy is always pulling on my pant leg with his teeth too. I tell him no when he does... do to I dont want him tugging on the sheep.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

westbrook said:


> they need obedience training! easy to do with treats in hand.... or pocket.
> 
> If they have sit ... tell them to sit and give a treat. Pet, praise and in time you can treat every couple of times until they only get a treat once for being good dogs.
> 
> ...


Thank you for all the good advice....I am pretty sure they have excepted me a the dominant one, they mind me better then my daughter or son-in-law.
I work at an office 9 hrs a day and drive an hr to work and then back...so I when I get home...it's off with the office clothes and down to their pen to let them out to spend time training and have actual contact with the sheep. I have asked my family to follow my rules for training them...but there is no guarantee that they are. They let them out in the morning, and afternoon with the sheep...dont get me wrong my boys are with the sheep all day...just inside a pen in the sheeps paddock...On the weekends is when I get even more time to be with them...trust me...my garden is only half tilled...nothing planted...potatoes still sittin on the counter. I spend til dark with them everyday after work and nothing else gets done....except picking out stickers from my sheep and cleaning stalls....LOL


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> A knee to the chest, and a firm *NO*
> 
> Also, head them off by reaching down to pet them BEFORE they jump
> 
> ...


Also Barefoot the breeder suggest that I have their dewclaws removed. Do you have any thoughts on this?


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

Too late to remove them now.It is too painful at this age and vets do nto recommend doing it. The breeder should have known that. 
The declaws are suppose to be removed at a few days old. I wish I knew how to do it because I would have removed the one LGD when he was born. No one around me knew how to either  

It is funny my one boy looks more Anatolian and he has the darn double dewclaws of his Pyr side. The one I have that looks far more Pyr just has the single dewclaws. Neither jump on me and have no issues with nail clipping, a hose with water coming out of it, well RUN cause she might wet us with it lol.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Also Barefoot the breeder suggest that I have their dewclaws removed. Do you have any thoughts on this?


Thaiblue covered it quite well

To remove the claws, they actually amputate the vestigal toe, and should be done the first day or two.

Just keep them trimmed


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

to remove dew claws.... at day 3, use fingernail clippers. Like cutting a hard toenail. you can view it being done at a vets on youtube. My way is so much nicer! yes they do cry but soon stop when they start nursing again.


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## laughaha (Mar 4, 2008)

I'm actually not big on the Knee-to-chest training solution for jumping. Especially for large dogs who 1-don't feel it and 2- usually end up thinking its a game OR 1- it's done so hard it really hurts and you don't want the dog to fear you or your touch. 

I've found (with really stubborn large breeds) that if they jump I grab their front legs and hold them there for a LONG time (like over a minute) and even make them walk backwards while I'm holding their front legs and making sure they are up for longer than they want to be up EVERY time they jump that they learn jumping is not fun. When I let them back down I tell them to sit. If they sit, praise. If they jump again- rinse and repeat till they sit and wait. Worst case scenario, they get tired legs and learn whose dominant in a painless manner.

If my dogs want my attention they are trained to sit in front of me. Jumping is not appropriate for 100lb+ dogs.


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## laughaha (Mar 4, 2008)

Oh, Dewclaws- Angelbaby had a double and a triple dewclaw on her back feet which were getting caught on everything and causing alot of stress and pain for her. We had the vet anesthatize her and amputate them and she never acted like she was in pain. She was over a year old when this happened (we adopted her from SPCA at a year old). Was it ideal? Nope, wish she'd had them taken off as a newborn but they were a PITA for her and me and I'll never regret having them taken off. 

Just saying that it is nicer to have double/triple dewclaws removed with anesthesia than having them ripped off because they became caught on something. Single dewclaws which aren't "loose"/ floppy I would just leave on and keep trimmed.


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