# Question for all you LGD pioneers.



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Mainly I need to know if what I am doing is correct or not..and advice to correct the mistake i may have made.

My maremma boys...stay with the sheep 24/7.
When I let the sheep into the yard which is about 2 acres...the boys come up to the porch and hang out and lay around there....*That is what is worrying me.*

Now...they still get up and walk the premise. Then come back.
They go and check on the sheep...Then come back.

They like to be petted and sleep on the cold concrete...under the carport.
If they hear the gate open...they stand alert and go to check it out.

I havent let them out into the big pasture yet with the ewes....I have no idea how they will react to that....I know they like to be close to water since it's so hot and humid here.

*Question: Am I damaging their work ethics allowing them to hang out near the house?*

Also...Last night the coyotes reared their ugly howls...and it was the first time the boys have heard them....both ran to the fence line and barked their fool heads off till the howling stopped...

they are 5 months old.

*Question: Are they still to young to be left in the paddock to roam?...*right now I keep them in a pen in front of the stalls for them to see the sheep and coyotes cannot get at them.


----------



## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

sounds like your letting them be more pets than working dogs, leave them with the sheep in the big paddock, they know where home is, they need to stay with the sheep, they are trying to do their job but are out side the pen when they should be INside the pen, 

over all its not a BAD thing but you dont want them to be more concerned with the house and the cool concreet than keeping the sheep safe,


----------



## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Fowler said:


> When I let the sheep into the yard which is about 2 acres...the boys come up to the porch and hang out and lay around there....*That is what is worrying me.*
> 
> Now...they still get up and walk the premise. Then come back.
> They go and check on the sheep...Then come back.
> ...


It sounds like they are still doing their job, so I wouldn't be too concerned. A lot of LGDs pick the highest spot of the pasture to serve as a lookout point, so if your porch is higher than the pasture, that may be what's going on.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

My house is the highest spot.
The sheep are in the yard...outside the paddock.
The sheep come on the porch too...and drink water and clean around my rose bushes.
I have the rams in the field....I havent placed the ewes with the dogs in the field yet. (due to there is plenty to eat in the yard still)

So all come to the porch....the dogs will lay on the porch...but will also get up and go check on the ewes...then come back to the porch.

They even watch the rams in the field..(even though the rams do not know what to think about them)...the rams have been tramatized by a coyote attack.
However...they do watch over them too across the field and bark at a dog passing by...or a skunk crossing the field.

*Should I refrain them from being on the porch?...am I causing harm?*

They also walk the fence inside the yard...every couple of hrs.
My home it at the top of the hill looking down towards the pasture.








[/IMG]

Looking down towards the pasture







[/IMG]


I am completely new to training LGD's and after a coyote killed my little lamb...I have been devastated...and I just wanna do right by my investment.


----------



## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

I would allow the dogs on the porch. They are still working from there. A lot of people who think the LGDs should only be with the livestock wind up with adult dogs they can't put their hands on to groom or give shots. In my opinion I'd rather my dogs know their jobs out with the stock~ but still interact with me and my family so they understand to come to me when called and that it is usually a pleasant experience to come to me~ it usually means a pet or a treat not always only a grooming or a vaccine!

Those dogs are watching their stock, and patrolling. They are doing their jobs. Now if you had them in the living room watching TV that would be a different story!


----------



## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

Are they still to young to be left in the paddock to roam?

At 5 months old they are old enough to be allowed into the paddock to roam, but they are not old enough to be completely trusted. Don't leave them unsupervised with young or weak animals~ only animals big enough to enforce an objection if they decide to play inappropriate puppy games with them. They are old enough and big enough to frighten off coyotes with their presence~ odor and bark, but probably not to actually win a fight so try to keep the coyotes intimidated by letting the dogs mark everywhere and be loud. A good LGD doesn't usually have to get into a fight with a predator, his presence and threat is usually enough to send the predator to easier prey.


----------



## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

The porch is a high point. They can relax and see well from there so I do not see it as a problem. Ours has at time been on the porch after attacking a bear and getting injured. He still watched, barked when needed and was alert, even while recovering.

Now he is out in the field with our sheep 24/7. He goes up into the woods where it is high and lays there often. He is 2 and a wonderful LGD.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Thanks Our Little farm and everyone else  I cant wait....they are getting so big...even at 5 months...they are huge.

And you are correct Cheryl...they do play a little hard on occassion...especially when I let them out of their pen in the morning...they do a quick excited chase to one of my ewes...as long as she does not run..they whip by her...when I see them doing this I give a quick correction.

Cheryl,and others...I leave them in the paddock with the sheep all day...When I get home I let them in the yard.

At night I lock up the sheep, and the dogs. The dogs have their own pen outside within the paddock. They can see the sheep and hear them.
To make sure I make my question clear. Can the dogs be left in the paddock at night?...instead of in their pen?...I place them there every night for their own protection....when do you think I can leave them to roam the paddock at night?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

They are naturally going to lay around a lot during the day, and be much more active at night.

You should be *glad* they like the concrete, because otherwise they would be digging holes looking for cool dirt.

It takes a *BIG* hole to cool a Maremma


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They are naturally going to lay around a lot during the day, and be much more active at night.
> 
> You should be *glad* they like the concrete, because otherwise they would be digging holes looking for cool dirt.
> 
> It takes a *BIG* hole to cool a Maremma


LOL....I love your pic!!!
and that is so true...they do lay around more during the day...and are more active at night. That is why I am asking if they are still to young to just roam the paddock at night instead of being locked in their pen?


----------



## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

i didnt know you had your sheep out in the yard with the dogs as well sorry i miss understood, that would be fine sence the dogs are actually with the sheep in that case, they should be big enough to be in the paddock at night, there are two of them and they are about half grown or bigger and already know their job, i would keep the sheep penned up still but the dogs should be able to be in the paddock at night especially if its a good fence, 
they need to be patroling at night marking territory and keeping varmits away,


----------



## CountryGoalie (Aug 31, 2004)

Just to put in my two cents - I agree about not being worried about them resting on the porch - like others have said before me, LGDs like to pick the highest point, and patrol occasionally - they're going to reserve their energy. That said, not sure what to tell you about the age thing, as our first working LGD was two years old when she came. We had LGD breeds as companions / general farm dogs before that, but nothing that was with stock, so... :headscratch: ...I'm not sure.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Thanks KSALguy and countrygoalie....I agree..about keeping the sheep penned up still. And yes I think I have good fencing....it's all cattle panels.
I am gonna try to allow them out of their pen and let them roam the paddock at night.
I posted this above...but I let them stay out of their pen a couple of nights ago...just till I went to bed. And that's when the boys heard their first coyote calls way off in the distance...and they both ran to the fence barking and running up and down the paddock fence line....I was so proud of them.
I realize they are both still young...I dont want to place them in harms way until they are able to defend themselves....and I am still learning.
But I agree......about letting them in the paddock to roam at night...I am such an over protective hen....LOL


Thank you all.


----------



## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

I think you are okay with what you are doing. Your dogs are including YOU and the ranch in their protection duties. I like that. Mine do same.... In fact, to burst everyone's bubble, lol, I have even have LGD's who have house privvies....I have one huge yearling Spanish Mastiff girl with injured tibias in rear legs. She is a hellacious guard, but also gets to sleep in the house...does it ruin her? Heck no.... My Maremma/Anatolian boys like to climb haystacks and sit up there to watch the goats. 

Interaction with their owners only strengthens the bond...you see you tubes of camps in Spain where the Mastine mingle with the herders while out there guarding sheep. They come in to eat and eat out of their hands, get brushed, checked over....get their 'lovin's'...grin... In Turkey you see same thing. I am a firm beleiver LGDs can do both: guard your stock your family you, your home.... Granted in wide open range situation where there is no house its different, but for many of us 'hobby farmers' with small or medium acreage, like your situation there, I see all the time, LGD's who can 'do it all', babysit your kids why keeping keen eye on the sheep, goats, etc. I think what you have is a great thing....and some great dogs!


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Well I did it...my pups graduated to night time freedom in the paddock.
And boy oh boy...I think they ran paths around the fence...with all there is to see, hear and smell at night.

Heck I was even a little weary when I walked out there to check on them at 4:30 this morning....they came in running at full throttle and hit the gate hard and barking...I thought I was a goner....LOL....until I used the secret password to calm them down..."It's ME!!!"...(someone on HT told me that... and it's so true...LOL)....then they proceeded to want to tell me all their adventures from last night...and running a few feet away and returning ..like they were showing me "look what I can do"........LMAO


I LOVE THEM!!!....I am so proud.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> And boy oh boy...I think they ran paths around the fence


*Every time *you put a Maremma in a new pasture, the first thing they want to do is patrol and mark the *perimeters*.

That's why they need to be fenced!


----------



## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

AMEN Bearfoot!!!!


----------

