# Trusting "The Authorities" - Lesson Learned



## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

This just happened in my life today, so maybe it will explain my own point of view and why others also feel untrusting of police.

First it bears mentioning that today would have been horrible even without uniforms. Our big healthy goat had three giant babies and one small one stuck in her. We lost them all inspite of having four people (neighbor came) and a vet as we tried to save them. 

One member of our household went out trying to get some emergency items for the goat at Ruralking. It was an emergency so she was going 65 in a 55. Got pulled over. I just have to mention here that the car, her person and everything on her was clean as a whistle. 

Cops says he smells pot (not a chance in "you know where" that he did) she was wearing perfume and told him that's the only thing he could be smelling. Then he looks over at her Blue Sky soda with a straw in it in the drink holder and says "Open Container! Get Down!" and THROWS her out onto the road. She starts crying, asking what are you doing. He tazes her TWICE. He cuffed her, had her searched, had the car searched four times, made no official arrest but detained her and impounded the car. Of course nothing was found and the "beer" was pop but goodness, a uniform is awesome, eh? She and another are now trying to get up there to pay the $240 bucks they just stole from us to get the car back.

She received three little ticket things with three different misdemeanor charges on them. One was resisting arrest (an arrest never officially made), failure to comply with a Peace Officer (comply with what is anyone's guess) and disorderly conduct for crying about it all. She's due in court on Tuesday. 

No clarification on what the detainment or arrest or whatever was actually for. No Miranda rights read. Just kidnapped and held for ransom basically.

So we're just poor enough and yet just "well off" enough (means you have at least a minimum wage job) that we're out of luck for legal counsel and how do you get a public defender without any official arrest? How do you get a resisting arrest with no official arrest, for that matter?

This happened five miles from our home in NOWHERESVILLE, so I just want to warn you. It's getting really nasty out there. When cops in the tiniest rural town can behave like that, nobody is safe. 

See, it's really easy to stay in a state of necessary denial about those brave officers out there, but if any are brave they need to do what is brave and speak up about what' going on in the force. They need to take whatever comes for that, because silence is going to be something to regret for anyone who allows this to keep going on to its final destination. There is a God. Believe that.

Yeah, this is all easy to deny for anyone it didn't happen to...and that's just it, until it's you, you just don't know how normal, innocent people are being treated by LEOs. It's super easy to say "so and so shouldn't have resisted arrest....what's their face shouldn't have talked back...." well....none of that happened. That's the truth, and that's all I have to say.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

My Uncle beat a traffic rap once: he brought pictures to show that the right turn arrow was no longer painted on the road.

Speaking of pictures, doesn't she have the right to request the pictures on the cops dashboard camera showing her actions: And, isn't it necessary for her to be proved guilty, which he cannot do unless the dashboard cameras show something?


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## plowhand (Aug 14, 2005)

I'd say it's time for a good ole country lawyer.................


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## Jokarva (Jan 17, 2010)

She must have his name and badge number, I'd go to his captain Monday morning and file a formal complaint documenting everything you've said here. If he's really a bad cop then he's done this before, they hear this enough times and something will be done about him. And, yes, I'd ask about any dash/body cam video too.

I'm sorry about your goats


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

That's disgusting. I'm betting in a small town lots of people are aware of this guy's penchant for undue force. I'd be asking around for experiences others have had with this miscreant, and ask them to present their stories, along with yours, to the City Council. I wouldn't look to his superiors for much help, but a few people exposing his misdeeds in public to their elected officials might get rid of him.

Or, contact the State Highway Patrol, asking for an investigation and prosecution for assault, and abuse of authority.

One way or another I'd be bringing some hurt down on this jerk.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

I keep saying it. Get and USE a dash cam. If you have a tablet or smart phone set in on record when you first stop and hide it.

The ACLU has a purpose. Contact it.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Terri said:


> My Uncle beat a traffic rap once: he brought pictures to show that the right turn arrow was no longer painted on the road.
> 
> Speaking of pictures, doesn't she have the right to request the pictures on the cops dashboard camera showing her actions: And, isn't it necessary for her to be proved guilty, which he cannot do unless the dashboard cameras show something?


I don't know, honestly. I hope they will produce it or be forced by law to do so, but I'm not 100% sure on the law or whether or not that footage will "disappear".


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Harry Chickpea said:


> I keep saying it. Get and USE a dash cam. If you have a tablet or smart phone set in on record when you first stop and hide it.
> 
> The ACLU has a purpose. Contact it.


Yep, now we all know all too well how useful one of those cameras can be. Wish we'd thought more about it sooner.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

I'm really confused on the resisting arrest charge. Like I said, no official arrest was made. No rights read, no booking, just cuffed and detained at the police station until she was picked up. How does a charge like that work without a legal arrest?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Well, a few months ago national new carried a story about a couple who who escaped a arrest, and though they where not arrested and additional charge of resisting arrest was added...and for escaping too.
So...I guess one doesn't have to be arrested to be charged with resisting.

Fight it.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Sheriff an elected position in your town?


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

I get along with 90% of the LEOs in my area and the other 10% are aware that my POV is used as part of our rural community watch and is not only outfitted with a 110 degree dash cam that uses a 4 hour SD video card that I purchased through Heartland America, I have four mounted on all sides of my SUV to provide 360 degree observation with 80 degree panoramic overlap and I also keep a digital recorder in my pocket with my video recorder ink pen that I keep in my pocket to turn on if needed.

Three times since I joined our S.O. rural community watch and began forging relationships with the LEOs who patrol our area and neighboring jurisdictions, if a traffic accident occurred in line of sight of my POV, I was asked by an officer whom I knew if my vehicle surveillance cams were activated while I was in the cafÃ© . Two times they were on and provided adequate documentation of the accidents that all involved in were denying responsibility.

A negative side effect of having good rapport with my area LEOs is that although most of them show me no leniency as I prefer, a few of them I have to remind them that I deserve no consideration based on our friendship.

Case in point, while going through a routine traffic stop I had a head light that had burned out since my twice weekly walk around light check and the deputy was going to give me a pass on the equipment violation.

I told him I would prefer getting a ticket because my parts house of preference was two city jurisdictions away and the ticket allowed me 72 hours to correct the violation without another ticket and once corrected if I didn't see him, any deputy of our S.O. could buy off on the repair and take back my ticket.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Is she black?


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

City cop or county? Go to the HQ, formally file a complaint and also see the chief if possible. If it was city, also visit the mayor. County, your elected county commissioner for your district, or however it is set up in your locale. 

There are procedures in place for grievances/complaints against the police for a reason. Use them! Sounds like there is a bad apple, do your part to get them culled.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

dlskidmore said:


> Sheriff an elected position in your town?


She was taken to the station in the town next to us. I'm not sure if he's elected or not. I don't know if this town even has its own police force. It's very small and we've only been here a couple of years.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

HDRider said:


> Is she black?


No, she's white. Sort of goes to show you that the media hypes what's going on in the black community while letting white America think that's it's all a black, inner city problem.


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## Rick (May 10, 2002)

terri said:


> my uncle beat a traffic rap once: He brought pictures to show that the right turn arrow was no longer painted on the road.
> 
> Speaking of pictures, doesn't she have the right to request the pictures on the cops dashboard camera showing her actions: And, isn't it necessary for her to be proved guilty, which he cannot do unless the dashboard cameras show something?


like like like~!!!


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

MO_cows said:


> City cop or county? Go to the HQ, formally file a complaint and also see the chief if possible. If it was city, also visit the mayor. County, your elected county commissioner for your district, or however it is set up in your locale.
> 
> There are procedures in place for grievances/complaints against the police for a reason. Use them! Sounds like there is a bad apple, do your part to get them culled.


Rural cop. It's very rural out here. I never considered myself naive about these things but I admit I was a bit surprised that this would happen in a small town. This isn't NYC for crying out loud. We'll go through these procedures, but I guess I'm not feeling the most optimistic about the justice system in general right now.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Is there a reliable newspaper? I'd be goin' there too.


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## V-NH (Jan 1, 2014)

I'm shocked. My experience is that rural cops typically use a lot of restraint because there is no where for them to hide and they're not anonymous. I highly suggest lawyering up. The cost of the lawyer will be well worth avoiding those misdemeanor charges. Borrow money if you have to.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

I'd find a lawyer in a larger place, so he has no affiliation to politicians or cops in your area, who will take the case for a part of any settlement you get. Sue their pants off. That's all goons understand. Small places get hit hard when you take a good chunk out of their meager revenue. Three local women filed suit against a jailer in a town of 4,000 for making them show him their boobs before he would give them a cigarette. They were awarded $70,000 each and the jailer was fired.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Update: She called the little store that she had been stopped in front of and asked for their video. Store has no video but a worker says she saw the whole thing and wants her to come talk to her up there tomorrow.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Also found out that the Sheriff was an FBI trainer and at some point trained at Quantico. He and other cops in the town are "fraternal organization" guys. Maybe some know how that goes.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Woolieface said:


> Update: She called the little store that she had been stopped in front of and asked for their video. Store has no video but a worker says she saw the whole thing and wants her to come talk to her up there tomorrow.


The ball is in your court. Good luck. You could call the ACLU is she was a person of color.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Woolieface said:


> Also found out that the Sheriff was an FBI trainer and at some point trained at Quantico. He and other cops in the town are "fraternal organization" guys. Maybe some know how that goes.


That's why I suggested getting it either to the elected officials in public, or going out of their jurisdiction. Small town, everybody's somebody's cousin, lodge brother, nephew, etc. Nepotism and the good old boy system in small town law enforcement is pretty common.

Even if they drop everything but the speeding, I'd press charges. That scumbag needs to be off the force, and in jail.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

People are advising her against talking to the store worker herself and to wait until an attorney does but this happened the day before Easter and it's Easter today...hard to find lawyers right now. The lady wants to talk tomorrow at 10 in the morning. I feel inclined that she should at least get her contact info, even if she wants to make the statement official, later with a lawyer.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Record the meeting and have a couple witnesses present if it must be made.


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## summerdaze (Jun 11, 2009)

Hey Shrek, where do you get one of those video recorder ink pen thingys? Sounds so James Bond-ish. I want one!

A coworker has a dash cam, and he's caught a complete wipeout on the freeway that happened right in front of him. He also has cameras at home that look out on the front and back yard, and he gets an email that there's movement of some sort at home while he's at work.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

summerdaze said:


> Hey Shrek, where do you get one of those video recorder ink pen thingys? Sounds so James Bond-ish. I want one!
> 
> A coworker has a dash cam, and he's caught a complete wipeout on the freeway that happened right in front of him. He also has cameras at home that look out on the front and back yard, and he gets an email that there's movement of some sort at home while he's at work.


 They do call them spy pens
I got the one I have from a friend who found it at a spy toy store he visited but his wife made him get rid of it and get his money back.

They are all similar as this one .

http://www.gadgetsandgear.com/spy-pen-cameras.html


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Woolieface said:


> This just happened in my life today, so maybe it will explain my own point of view and why others also feel untrusting of police.
> 
> First it bears mentioning that today would have been horrible even without uniforms. Our big healthy goat had three giant babies and one small one stuck in her. We lost them all inspite of having four people (neighbor came) and a vet as we tried to save them.
> 
> ...




I bolded some parts in your post to call attention to some key points.

**** It was an emergency so she was going 65 in a 55.*

You need documentation of this.
It was an emergency.
As such, there IS precedent for a minor breaking of a law, particularly traffic laws, in the act of rendering aid in an emergency.
As long as she wasn't endangering lives, just speeding, there is ample precedent for that defense.
Judge Scalia spoke to this in the D.C. handgun case last year.
The example he gave was jaywalking, a minor crime.
If a person saw a crime committed across the street or saw a child about to be hit by a car and ran into the street without a crosswalk to prevent it, it would be absurd to charge them with jaywalking in that circumstance.
There are many other examples, breaking into a burning house to save someone inside.
You would not be in danger of a vandalism or B&E charge.

It might be a bit of a stretch in saving a goat's life, but that's for a judge to decide. No reason not to use it.



****"Open Container! Get Down!" and THROWS her out onto the road. She starts crying, asking what are you doing. He tazes her TWICE. He cuffed her, had her searched, had the car searched four times, made no official arrest but detained her and impounded the car.* 


Open container, minor pot possession etc. is NOT considered reason to use force. Not only that, since it turned out there were no illegal drugs or alcohol found, the suspicion he used as probable cause turned out to be wrong.
Therefore not only was the search unjustified, so was the use of force.
He's on his way to having a bad day, trust me.


****She received three little ticket things with three different misdemeanor charges on them. One was resisting arrest (an arrest never officially made), failure to comply with a Peace Officer (comply with what is anyone's guess) and disorderly conduct for crying about it all. She's due in court on Tuesday. *

Those charges will be dismissed, just don't plead guilty and don't be bluffed into taking a plea deal.



Woolieface said:


> I'm really confused on the resisting arrest charge. Like I said, no official arrest was made. No rights read, no booking, just cuffed and detained at the police station until she was picked up. How does a charge like that work without a legal arrest?


Speaking from the law's point of view........
The traffic stop is a detention and the "first step" in an arrest. 
Ant attempt to resist or interfere or even object _can_ be viewed as resisting an arrest.
Very shaky ground, but that's the basis of the charge.




Woolieface said:


> She was taken to the station in the town next to us. I'm not sure if he's elected or not. I don't know if this town even has its own police force. It's very small and we've only been here a couple of years.





Woolieface said:


> Rural cop. It's very rural out here. I never considered myself naive about these things but I admit I was a bit surprised that this would happen in a small town. This isn't NYC for crying out loud. We'll go through these procedures, but I guess I'm not feeling the most optimistic about the justice system in general right now.



It happens everywhere, rural or not.




Woolieface said:


> Update: She called the little store that she had been stopped in front of and asked for their video. Store has no video but a worker says she saw the whole thing and wants her to come talk to her up there tomorrow.



Now, what to do after pleading not guilty at the court appearance.....

You need to find out exactly what dept. this cop works for, local PD, Sheriff or highway patrol.
Then proceed to ask to speak with his boss. Sounds like it may be the Sheriff in this case, but be sure.

I've had several incidents similar to this one over the years, I handled each one differently, but all went in my favor, so relax, I think everything is going to be all right.

From your first post you indicated you aren't wealthy enough to go hire an attorney, and you really shouldn't have to for this.
But the first decision that needs to be made is, does your family member want to pursue legal action and sue, or will having the charges dropped be sufficient?
Reimbursement for the tow and impound fee IS negotiable I would think, and if they are smart that will be part of the deal.

I've had good luck going to the police chief. In one case Internal Affairs called me in for an interview, and they both called me and sent a letter thanking me for allowing them to take corrective action. I still have the voice mail and letter on the sun visor of my truck. Sometimes it gets pulled out accidentally when I'm handing over my license and registration.......

Going to the district attorney is another avenue. In both cases, you can be firm without threatening. You want this handled, you want justice, not vengeance, and want them to know that you intend to see this through, hopefully with their help, but persevere nonetheless.

Finally, if they all want to play hardball, and that is indeed a possibility, you need to find the best lawyer in a 100 mile radius, bring him all documentation you have, ASAP.
At that point, a civil suit may be the only way you get the criminal charges dropped and the lawyer can collect a nice fee, without it costing you an arm and a leg out of pocket.
Good luck and get going.:goodjob:


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Documentation of emergency - You know, we asked the vet for this and she refused to so much as hand us our bill (we'll mail it to you). But she works for a main office and I hope the senior veterinary there will do it for us. I know, it's a stretch for a goats life, but then again...people speed for reasons sillier than trying to salvage a year's worth of work raising their livestock.

Use of force - The impound lot man informed us that taser use was supposed to have been discontinued by that police force a while ago. Yet they obviously still have them and use them.

She is planning on pleading not guilty but we were also advised that we should ask for a delay. They're rushing this so we can't get much accomplished.

resisting arrest - She said she took an involuntary step back when he came at her. Instinct. A big dude coming after a little woman. I don't know if that's what constitutes resisting or what

Yep, obviously it does happen everywhere. I was just Hoping this place would be old fashioned in that way too.

As far as i know, the cop was the Sheriff but he called in several others - a female searcher and some plain clothes folks showed up to help the whole search party fun.

Sueing or not - She doesn't necessarily feel like getting vengeance or punitive damages even though they are well deserved. She just wants to do what she needs to to be free of this mess.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Woolieface said:


> Documentation of emergency - You know, we asked the vet for this and she refused to so much as hand us our bill (we'll mail it to you). But she works for a main office and I hope the senior veterinary there will do it for us. I know, it's a stretch for a goats life, but then again...people speed for reasons sillier than trying to salvage a year's worth of work raising their livestock.
> 
> Use of force - The impound lot man informed us that taser use was supposed to have been discontinued by that police force a while ago. Yet they obviously still have them and use them.
> 
> ...



To answer a few of your concerns:

Don't worry about any "rushing" on their part, a not guilty plea should automatically mean several preliminary proceedings before *anything* is decided, I'm talking about several weeks minimum and usually months.

Yes, resisting can be something as simple as taking a step back or even not moving fast enough for their desires. Obviously not what most people consider what is seen on TV as a real resisting arrest, but it makes cuffing and taking down suspects acceptable and necessary in court, otherwise how else could the cop explain his actions and be believed?

I realize that there are more details than you told, there's bound to be.
However details are important, every single one. I'm not saying that to be nit picky, but so when or if she speaks to a lawyer, he hears it all.

***One detail that wasn't mentioned in all of this.***

*What about the speeding ticket?*


After all this happened, it may sound trivial, but it may just be the most important detail.
In his rush to make this arrest, did the original reason for the traffic stop get overlooked?
If so, that might be the reason they are in a hurry to get this over with.
You see, that is the only reason he had to detain her in the first place.
If this terrible transgression of the law wasn't isn't among all the other charges, they have a problem with every thing that took place after that.:bash:

No ticket, no reason to detain.
No detention, no arrest or resisting arrest.
No detention or arrest, no reasonable cause to search or impound.

And if there is a ticket, that doesn't mean every thing was legal either BTW.
Overall, it sounds like the other charges were trumped up in order to provide a scapegoat for an improper traffic stop by an overzealous cop.
They may be hoping if they bluff big enough, she'll be scared enough to not get them in any trouble, and it sure seems like they are in some now.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

farmrbrown said:


> To answer a few of your concerns:
> 
> Don't worry about any "rushing" on their part, a not guilty plea should automatically mean several preliminary proceedings before *anything* is decided, I'm talking about several weeks minimum and usually months.
> 
> ...


She had heard that in such a trial they can and sometimes will expedite the process and make the next step happen the same day...minutes or hours later. She has requested a delay already and will hear in the morning if that is granted. None of the tickets have been filed with the court yet. The court said they have until 1:30 tomorrow...an hour before the court date. She has also contacted some places for charitable legal services.

It really ticks me off that a reaction like stepping back can be called resisting arrest. Big armed guy versus a lone, unarmed woman. I think they expect to us to not be human anymore. And certainly no force was necessary.

She's a very observant and detail oriented person. Throughout hearing the thing, I feel pretty confident she brought up every relevant detail. She isn't even the kind of person who would run her mouth in frustration at them. She called them "sir", very respectfully.

Yeah...the speeding ticket. She did not receive any citation for that. There were three papers with three charges. None of them were speeding. I agree, they have no ground to stand on for detaining her or anything else without that charge of speeding.

I may have mentioned somewhere (don't have time to read back) that the police station supposedly stopped the use of tasers before this incident. She heard them speaking amongst themselves and Sheriff says to other cops "....yeah...they cause heart attacks" . Not sure how much it matters if they had an official policy against using them and then did.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I have in fact had a "same day trial" on a traffic ticket. This was after 2 or 3 preliminary hearings, pleading not guilty and stating I would defend myself.
I won that case.

If they try to pull that on her WITHOUT due process, they are counting on ignorance in being able to violate the law, perhaps by tricking her into consenting to such.
But I seriously doubt they can bring all evidence and witnesses to trial, seat a jury and have a trial in a matter of hours.
All you need to know is this, a few of the first 10 amendments, commonly called The Bill of Rights from the U.S. Constitution......


Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.



A historical footnote:
While we have all heard of the Miranda rights, did you know the gov't wasn't forced to comply with the 6th amendment until the 1960's?
http://www.uscourts.gov/educational.../right-counsel/facts-case-summary-gideon.aspx
The right to a court appointed attorney always existed, but it wasn't until a vagrant in Florida pressed the matter that it became a reality in all 50 states.
Just goes to show, they'll always try to get away with something if you let them.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Is it true that Miranda rights do not have to be read for an arrest but they do have to be read if someone is interrogated? She was questioned, as well, but I was always under the impression that rights had to be read for any legal arrest.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Woolieface said:


> Is it true that Miranda rights do not have to be read for an arrest but they do have to be read if someone is interrogated? She was questioned, as well, but I was always under the impression that rights had to be read for any legal arrest.


Miranda rights are not required for any interrogation.... but any evidence obtained if they are not read is subject to being inadmissible in court.


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## Wren - TN (Dec 22, 2013)

HDRider said:


> The ball is in your court. Good luck. You could call the ACLU is she was a person of color.


Isn't it the AMERICAN Civil Liberties Union? Do you have to be 'of color' to be represented by them? I know most are, but won't they stick up for any American whose civil rights have been violated?


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Wren - TN said:


> Isn't it the AMERICAN Civil Liberties Union? Do you have to be 'of color' to be represented by them? I know most are, but won't they stick up for any American whose civil rights have been violated?


That should certainly be the way it is. I'm not sure, in all practicality, if white people have an equal chance of representation, though.

Another update on things - She had called for a delay yesterday and was told to call back this morning to see if she got it. She is supposed to meet with a lawyer tomorrow. The court not only did not grant a delay but told her that she must be there at 1 which is an hour and a half EARLIER than her ticket states. They told her the cops made a mistake on the ticket. So....what? Was she going to have a bench warrant issued against her if she hadn't called and found that out? Geez! :hair


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Wren - TN said:


> Isn't it the AMERICAN Civil Liberties Union? Do you have to be 'of color' to be represented by them? I know most are, but won't they stick up for any American whose civil rights have been violated?


Maybe you could show where this has been the case?


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Here's a few links to ACLU and Rush Limbaugh, KKK, and a couple others.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/01/12/aclu-comes-to-rush-limbaugh-defense/

https://www.aclu.org/free-speech/aclu-em-defends-kkks-right-free-speech

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/04/aclu-to-reid-not-so-fast-on-that-gun-control-bill/

I realize they get in some nasty stuff, but they are all over the map sometimes in what they get involved in.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Woolieface said:


> That should certainly be the way it is. I'm not sure, in all practicality, if white people have an equal chance of representation, though.
> 
> Another update on things - She had called for a delay yesterday and was told to call back this morning to see if she got it. She is supposed to meet with a lawyer tomorrow. The court not only did not grant a delay but told her that she must be there at 1 which is an hour and a half EARLIER than her ticket states. They told her the cops made a mistake on the ticket. So....what? Was she going to have a bench warrant issued against her if she hadn't called and found that out? Geez! :hair


It's ok.
The court appearance is just a procedural one, an arraignment/probable cause hearing, usually required within 72 hours of an arrest. It's not a trial and no cause for alarm.
See the lawyer and take it from there.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Ok since you guys don't seem to know let me intimidate the victim a bit.

Remember you guys will live with every member on the police force till they and everyone they train will retire.

I'm surprised the cops and courts haven't made this clear.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Ok...she plead not guilty. That's all that was. Next court date is May 13th. She's up with the lawyer now.

Yes, I know we have to put up with these police now and they'll surely remember the vehicle. On the other hand...I keep thinking how many intimidated people it took to get to the point that they can get away with these things. Someone, somewhere has to stand up.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I think its happening all over the country. The cops are getting worse and the people are getting fed up.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

How's it going Woolie?

When she left meeting with lawyer, did she have a decent sense of moving in the right direction?

What about talking with the store clerk who witnessed? If you updated on that, I'm sorry I musta missed it.

These things are just rotten and ruin so many lives. I am soooo hoping you all get an outcome deserving. ..Actually that won't happen I reckon. 'Cause that one guy (not all police) ought to have some humiliating consequences. I got some great ideas that wouldn't be well perceived by general public.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Hey, Partndn, thanks for asking

Well, the lawyer seemed like a decent enough guy and would probably be an asset. He wants 1,500 for the basics. It's not outrageous, it's just tough to come up with on the spot. We have a week to decide if we want to hire him.

She had been told by the daughter of the witness at the store "she saw the whole thing" but the woman herself claimed she only got a view of her when she was already on the ground being cuffed. She did say that a UPS man had seen it all but he was not on the job at the time and was only stopping (as he does every Saurday) before going fishing. We don't know that man's name but it was suggested to her that she get up there at the same time this coming Saturday and try to catch him as he comes in. Part of me wonders, in this small town if a witness can become real hesitant in fear of becoming a target by speaking up.

At the time of the incident, several police were at the scene by the time it was all said and done. One was in a plain vehicle and clothes. The same unmarked vehicle followed her last night for several miles when she went through that part of town. I'm starting to feel sorry for people who don't recognize the reality of these things happening in their "free" country. They won't have much warning when "some cops" become "most cops" and it's in their own lives.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Mmm. Thanks for the status. 

Good idea on headin to the fishin hole. You never know.

The following thing sucks huge. :grump:
I really hate to think it should be needed, but I feel like your girl should make sure she is with a 2 or more group whenever possible for a little while.

sigh............. I know you just lost livestock, but I sure hope you can wiggle a way to hire the lawyer. 

Hang in there!

p.s. what state you in?


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Hire the lawyer and get a dash cam of your own. 

Somebody who was elected by the voters should have hire/fire authority over the individual officers or their chief. Make sure it comes to their attention. 

In our little town, the city council collectively hires/fires the chief of police. Chief then hires/fires the individual officers. (both of them! It really is a small town.) For the county, the sheriff is elected and he hires/fires the deputies. So find out your local structure, and use your political channels in addition to the legal defense.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Woolieface said:


> Hey, Partndn, thanks for asking
> 
> Well, the lawyer seemed like a decent enough guy and would probably be an asset. He wants 1,500 for the basics. It's not outrageous, it's just tough to come up with on the spot. We have a week to decide if we want to hire him.
> 
> ...


That sounds familiar.



partndn said:


> Mmm. Thanks for the status.
> 
> The following thing sucks huge. :grump:
> I really hate to think it should be needed, but I feel like your girl should make sure she is with a 2 or more group whenever possible for a little while.


A VERY good idea.
These boys aren't used to being challenged.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Partndn - Ohio
I do get the impression that nobody challenges them here. The police look like they're getting excellent revenue (nice new cars, etc.) The town, on the other hand, is dirt poor. I doubt most of the locals could ever afford legal defense if they needed it.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Well I know this court doodie drags on and what not. But please keep us posted on how it goes. 

Your misfortune might help someone next time it comes up. I really hope it goes the way it should.


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