# Has anyone lived on land in a motor home or travel trailer etc?



## Deb862 (Jun 22, 2005)

I'm sure some here have done this and would like to know if it worked for you (or not!) and for how long. As property prices are rather expensive, we are looking at the possibility of living on 5-10 acres in a motorhome or 5th wheel for a few years until we can build a cabin debt free. Of course, being in the North we plan to move South for the winters but were thinking this would be great way to afford a property we couldn't otherwise afford if it came with a house already. It's just the 2 of us, no kids, so we're thinking that would make it a ton easier. Anything we're not considering? Thanks for any advice and would love to hear your story!


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I was single, but lived in a travel trailer at the ranch where I worked/leased in Montana for two years before I moved to Kentucky. Had electricity available ... that was it for modern conveniences, but I didn't find it a problem.

A younger couple who bought some acreage from us are living in a travel trailer while they are "reorganizing" and getting things to the point where they can live on their acreage. They do have access to electric, septic, water here.

Biggest issue for me in Montana in the trailer was insulation/heat ... I think their biggest issue may be actual space for two people.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Check with the county...anonymously of course. I know our county does not allow anyone to live in an RV or travel trailer for more than 30 consecutive days at a time.


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## Trisha in WA (Sep 28, 2005)

We are currently living in a 5th wheel on property. Winters are tricky, but there are things that can be done if you wanted to stay. Space is a challenge especially if you get one that doesn't have tip outs. We have lived in a travel trailer in an RV park before too and that was aweful. That trailer was bigger and more comfortable, but the surroundings made all the difference.
So, if it is legal, I say go for it.


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

A nearby thrown together shed/barn or storage trailer/shipping container would come in handy to store things and do things that can't be done in the trailer. Tools, furniture, ect will take up too much room and cause space issues most of the time.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

We put a 5th on our property to live in it. It would be just fine,as it has whats called a Heated Basement.We also insulated arround the bottem, and built a cookhouse for our wood cookstove. The local building inspector, was the problem for the young couple we sold the land to. We kept the 5th. They had built a small cabin. Long proscess of Legal mess. Needless to say it depends on the law.


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## Deb862 (Jun 22, 2005)

Thanks for letting me know that. Will definitely have to check on the legal issues when considering parcels of land. DH's idea is to build a barn/outbuilding large enough to house the trailer/MH in and also to give us room to spread out a little. Do you know would I check with village/town or county or state on that?


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## Micahn (Nov 19, 2005)

I personally have not but have a uncle that did.
He got himself a nice camper and lived it while building his home. After the home was dries in he was able to move it into the garage.
Now that the home is done he uses it as sort of a guest house. The wife and I stayed in it while there a couple of years ago. It was nice.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

We did for about six months - didn't want to deal with the winter hassles, so moved out when the really cold weather hit. It was fun for us. We have an old house on the property that is not usable as a dwelling, so we stored a lot of stuff in it. That freed up the trailer for our use. I'm cleaning the trailer up to sell this spring. With luck, we'll get almost the amount we paid for it back, less the cost of some repairs and a little depreciation. When the recession hit and the RV industry stopped manufacturing, it started pulling up the resale value of older units.


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## Navotifarm (Dec 16, 2009)

Popular Science magazine had a wonderful article. About a couple who built a kind of "docking station" garage/extra room for an rv. It has a big living room' fireplace, comfy big picnic table for dining. YoU could back your rv alongside to sleep and cook in while being able to step from it into the big room. I never saw such a thing myself but am told there are whole "snowbird" developments which sell small parcels of land with these buildings and other amenities in Arizona. 

I acquired wooded land where I "camped out" for years. Your idea worked for me. I posted some of this experience in an earlier thread.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Our county/village doesn't allow living in an RV, trailer, etc. on your own land unless you move it ever 30 days, so that they know it's not a permanent residence (which seems to be the thing they're worried about). SO....we just moved the thing a couple of feet ever month  Made them happy. 

Now..with a tailer with a holding tank, you'll want to do that anyway...take a mini trip to the local RV station for dumping and getting more water..maybe once a week? 

If it's inside a shed, no one will see it and wno't worry about it. 

BUT, check with your county's ordinances. hmm...our county has a website that lets me check stuff like that. OR you can at least find out who to call. Just call the clerk at the county building and ask your question. he/she will know who you need to talk to. The clerks know EVERYTHING. (like ours did. She told us how to word our question to the guy who runs the sanitary stuff (water and sewer) so that we could have our envirolet AND have running water..and yes, that's a problem for this guy. If you have runnign water, you HAVE to have a septic system for black water..even if you have no blackwater)

heh. almost forgot about living in one. Yes, it's fine...as long as you keep it tidy for each other, and decluttered. Easy in the summer when you can spread out into a tent, or on the picnic table. Winter it gets a bit...tight..for some folks.


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

We did it for two years in an 18' camp trailer in Oregon. And had a baby whilst there. We did build a 'shop' to put the trailer in for the winter and had a woodstove in the shop for heat. Long as you weren't further from the stove the 6" or so, it was warm enough.  We also found an old 1950's propane cookstove and hooked that up to a 5 gal propane bottle for cooking. Then we found a 40 gal propane hot water heater for $40 when the local hardware store went out. Woohoo! Hot water! Refrigerator was a couple of ice chests buried in the ground outside. We had a generator hooked up to the well and we'd run it once a day or so for just long enough to fill up the pressure tank we installed in the shop. Before we got the shop up, I do remember a time or two of running out of water in the trailer in midshower and having to grab a towel and walk the full length of the property up the well and generator to turn it on, fill up the trailer and go back to finish rinsing. Thank goodness we had no neighbors!


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## spiritrider (Nov 14, 2009)

phone company may not hook up to it. wouldn't here.

shadowrider


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## Trisha in WA (Sep 28, 2005)

We hooked up our own phone...they just had to put in a jack on the pole like normal.


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

I lived in a 36 ft. motor home for a year and it was nice. Best thing was if you wanted to go somewhere to visit just unhook the water and elect cord and go. I did under pen it in the winter and put heat tape on the water hose and put the insulation on and wrapped with plastic. Had no problems even at 0 degrees. we still have it and use for a guest room when we have a lot of company. Sam


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## adamtheha (Mar 14, 2007)

I had some friends that tried it here in Canada, and the local government shot it down real quick! 
If you are going to try it, make sure you talk to neighbors first, talk to building officials second, and connect all utilities third.
I think a cheap mobile home would be a better choice with more space, or even an old construction trailer. With a larger home, you can put a woodstove in it, and maybe rig up some renewable energy
If you can spare 10k and you're decently handy, build a tiny cabin, and then convert it into a garage later. Prolly wouldn't take more than 3 weeks to build one.
Most travel trailers are designed for occassional use, and anything more permanent is going to wear it out fast. Things like doors, windows, slideouts, tires will probably break in time, and that will cut the value when you resell it.
Most counties hate these, unless you really sell it well to the planning commission.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

All depends on location. I lived couple years in an old school bus back in early 80s in Michigan, but local govts keep tightening the screws and fewer places you can get away with it. Still some localities where there is no local zoning/codes and national codes arent enforced. But those places are fewer and fewer and usually in very rural areas where jobs are scarce and the yuppies havent taken over "to protect their investments". And even that is no guarentee. It probably wont be that many years until if you want to homestead without a couple million in the bank, you will have to move to a third world country. Kinda amazing that the most freedom would be in some backwater ruled by some crazy tinpot dictator stuffing his Swiss bank account with the international aide his country gets.


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## Mel- (Mar 30, 2004)

I was planning on doing this but have found most of the land I am looking at the elec company won't hook up without a permanent foundation and water already on the property. I need elec for my online business.


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

Solar,wind with a good battery/inverter setup will supply all the power you "NEED". You won't be able to run A/C or demand alot without spending a small fortune but its very doable.


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## Navotifarm (Dec 16, 2009)

There are many people who live in rv's or travel trailers year-round. They call themselves "full-timers." They have lots of cunning tricks for survival, some of which you can adopt for full-timing on your own land or other people's land while saving up enough money to buy your own, or researching the best place to settle down. 

One thing is solar and other alternate energy forms which are not as regulated on travel trailers as on stationary dwellings. Another is mail service - don't set up a mail box or have delivery to your property. Get a P.O. Box or mail forwarding service or make a deal with a friend or family member. 

Full timers set up a "legal residence" in a state with the most tax advantages such as Texas or Alabama and have mail forwarded. 

If you are going to camp on your own land then you logically would not have permanent things such as electricity, running water, septic system or landline phones, all of which require permits, permissions, bureaucrats, inspectors, etc. Most of these things can be created variously in your travel vehicle. I have a blackberry, for example which I can use as a tethered or external modem or I surf the internet at free hotspots with my lap top. 

In my area, there used to be laws about cisterns and water collection but, interestingly, they were struck off the books so it's easy to set up a rain water collection system in second-hand applejuice or other 50-gallon potable products barrels, buying your drinking water at Walmart. 

For a composting toilet, I bought an invalid's chair bucket toilet at Goodwill for $15, put sawdust in it, and do the composting outside with coffee grounds, weeds, avocado pits, any compostable items my dogs and poultry don't eat, leaves, weeds and lotsa cardboard. 

The Tiny House website and blogs is chockfull of wonderful ideas you can adopt or use as a springboard for your own travel trailer homesteading, so go for it and good luck!


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## Calvin Wiles (May 14, 2008)

I do it over half the time. I have a 30' Travel Trailer set on my Ranch in a secluded area that no utilities are available. The Wife and I stay there from this time of year to after Thanksgiving. We have a House in Town that we spend the Winter months in. We have Solar and Wind Power, and with Propane we could spend the entire Winter there without a problem. It can be done.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

When I was first married, we lived in a travel trailer. Stayed there for nearly two years. We had electricity, but the camperr just used 12v, so just kept a battery charger going. . Hand water pump outside. Didn't use the trailers toilet, made a temporary outhouse. 
We were a 1/4 mile from the road. In the winter we would park the truck at the road and carry groceries and propane back to the trailer.
We both had full time off farm jobs and grew a 3 acre vegetable garden, rabbits and chickens.
I started 100 tomato plants in the trailer.
In the winter, I put hay bales around the trailer, so the wind wouldn't blow under. The furnace kept us somewhat warm. Up near the ceiling it was hot and on the floor the snow wouldn't melt off my boots, next to the door.

It has to be a place to sleep and prepare food. I doubt it would work for people that spend a lot of time inside.

Four years ago, I started a job in a resort area. I couldn't find cheap housing. So I lived in a pickup truck camper. I parked it in a campground, slid it off my truck, cranked it down low and supported it on concrete blocks. I stayed there from early May until well into October. I was able to use the Campground's toilet and showers. The Campground closed and I had to leave. By this time the tourist season was over and I was able to rent an apartment very cheap.


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## SteveD(TX) (May 14, 2002)

I know that Andrew over on Barker Hill has done that for several years. Personally, travel trailers are a bit cramped for me, and not really suited for permanent living unless you have the proper hookups, and even then, unless you have something like a huge modern 5th wheel, the amenities and room are not exactly comfortable. Of course, some people won't mind.

If it were me, I'd rather put a used single wide mobile home on a property, since they are more suited for permanent living. You can find those pretty cheap, and maintaining them and fixing them up is fairly easy. When your house is built, simply sell it and move it out, or make it into a second living quarters for guests or in-laws. :shocked:


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## horsepoor21 (Mar 14, 2007)

My husband , 5 children and I lived in our 5th wheel since March of '09. We just recently bought a place but hubby still lives in the trailer 5 days a week while working .

We made it in -75 weather . If we can do it anyone can do it !


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Our Township made the rules. It's possible that they will let you stay in a trailer/mobile while building- you must have a Building permit. We used a porta-potty-septic cleaner to pump out our blackwater tank.The bottem was all sealed in and insulated with wood lattuce covering. Built a 2 teared deck arround,so we couldn't move it easly to empty the black water. We had a big water tank (the kind that go in the back of a PU truck. The used the fresh water siphon to pump the water in. Generator for AC. and charging. Made an inclosure for the gen. to quiet the noise.Had a propane co. come in and put in a 300 pig tank.


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## Lyra (Sep 15, 2009)

I love RVs/travel trailers. The only problem is the lack of heat on cold nights.


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## Mountainview42 (Dec 15, 2009)

Deb, lots of real good suggestions here so far.
And lets remember that there are people that follow every single rule and regulation to the letter... even the insane and no good cause rules...
And then there are the people with common sense and a willingness to "Be flexible".
Read between the lines on that.

Last year here in S.Oregon there was an older couple living in a smaller travel trailer on their own property, and they had been for quite some time.
They were neat and clean, and kept a low profile, and pretty much acted like you would expect to stay off the radar.
So far so good.

Well, one day a more than just nosey neighbor decided, for whatever reason, to turn them in and wreck their lives the best he could, and it did.

This couple was retired and on a fixed income and apparently just keeping to themselves and living life peaceful on their own, the best they could with what very little money they had.

Of course this made the local paper, and the point I wanted to make here to you is this.

They (the reporter doing a follow up story) asked the couple why the neighbor got mad and turned them in as it was pretty clear that although they were not in county compliance, they were surely not harming anyone of anything.

They said they had no, as in zero idea what even triggered the tattletale neighbor. Said they hardly even saw or spoke, but were always polite and friendly when they did.

No comment of course from the tattletale.

Now glean from this what you will, but here is what I see.

You can never tell what or when a casual observer, or more likely a neighbor might decide to become an unpaid informant for the state/county.

Soooo.... whenever possible, just like with the always popular SSS technique: Out of sight, is out of mind.
Didn't that Sun Tzu fellow say something about that a few years back?

Was it the Scotts, or the Irish who have this great little saying...?
"Good fences, make for good neighbors"
I have always thought there was much good wisdom in that simple saying.

If you decide to go forward with this idea, might I suggest that you be extra careful to be sight-unseen, and let no-one-at-all see, hear, touch, taste, or smell anything that you do.

Now of course be courteous and polite to your neighbors.
If you see them while driving in or out wave and or say hello.
Even stop and lightly chat them up once in a blue moon about the weather or something of little or no real value.... But don't ever become too friendly, and for heavens sake never invite them over.
Friendly, courteous, but slightly aloof is what you are aiming for here.

Of course family and good friends do not fall into the same catagory, just be sure to let them know what the overall plan is, and to zip it.

And, and....if possible, have a "Plan-B" that you could implement in short order should the neighbors as Nazi's come a poking around stiring up the pot.

Loose lips sink more than just ships, they can and do ruin lives.

Plan well ahead and try to think like "The Enemy" and avoid all the obvious pit falls that you can.

Did I mention that it is always best that you keep your business to yourselves, and not out in the open for one and all to see and observe, and tell others about and did I mention loose lips... oh-yes I did.
But it is so important that I mentioned it again.

Have fun, be safe, be invisible if you can.


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## nancy237 (May 29, 2008)

It really bothers me that (if I wanted to) I couldn't
decide I wanted to live in a tent on my own property.

If I kept a locked gate on my property how would anyone know
how I was living. Could I just refuse to allow county inspectors 
on the property??

It is amazing the settlers were allowed to come ashore without 
permits.


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## Navotifarm (Dec 16, 2009)

Mountainview42 is absolutely correct! It is "illegal" to live without running water or electric - in other words, to camp out on your own land in this great free country. However, if you do not apply for any permits or otherwise invite inspectors or bureaucrats to your property, who is to know?

In my case, I had hunters and atvers making use of my land. When I objected (to their faces) they retaliated by complaining about me to the health department and building and zoning. I was swarmed by investigators from different departments who fortunately for me didn't compare notes and weren't enforcing the same laws or regulations. Hooray for bureaucratic miasma! 

I pointed out the complainers would never have known I was camping out if they had not been trespassing, and that their basis of complaint was malice. The bureaucrats sent me some scare letters but, like another poster here, I just moved my trailer. Also I had several trailers. In my county one can camp out for 6 months, so it was easy to play musical chairs and the bureaucrats had lots worse complaints to worry about, so they left me alone until the next complaint!

This is something for you to keep in mind, a kind of occupational hazard of travel trailer homesteading!


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## Mrs.Swirtz (Jan 13, 2009)

I've lived in my 18 ft camper trailer for the past two summers without electricity or running water. The first summer I was working on the road crew an hour from the house and gas was $5.15 a gallon so I bought the trailer and it paid for itself in two monthes. Up here it is light 24/7 in the summer. But I still got a battery op lantern for the twighlight past of the night. I filled up 5 gallon water jugs for drinking cleaning water. My stove heater and fridge ran on propane. I used a bucket for pee with that blue RV stuff in it to keep out the smell and used a double grocery bag in the toilet to poop and just threw it in the work dupster on the way to work. The biggest problem that I had was that the fridge would freeze every thing. Once a week I would drive all the way home to take shower and the rest of the time I would sponge bath it. twice I bought showers at neighboring lodges. last summer i cooked at a lodge 1 1/2 hours from the house and they let me keep my trailer on the river behind for free. I could have moved it closer and had electrical hookup but would have had to pay $300 a month for it . And as I said everything but water and lights ran on propane anyway. But at least they let me do laundry and take showers for free. plus the fishing was great. Salmon all summer. The biggest thing was storage but if you are on your own property you can throw up a shed or lean to no problem. At times it got a little old but at the same time it was saving me mad cash so I didn't really care. We are currently building a house and this spring we will stop renting and move into our camper , hopefully one last time so that we can save just that extra little bit of money to finish the house this summer. Well we better because if we give this place up and they rent it there will be no other place to rent within 60 miles. So once more back to the camper. Did I mention that it has the most comfortable bed. Well all is not lost.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Several areas of the country have quick erect garages of varying sizes. If you already have the slab down they can be put up in 1-2 days. Finished on the outside, roughed in on the inside. Since it is a permanent building a power company should be willing to bring electric to it.

Say you were to have a plumber rough plum in lines and drains for a small bathroom in a corner and small kitchen elsewhere before the concrete is poured. Leave on the garage door(s), but put up a temporary/false wall inside of them. On the outside it would look like a garage, inside like a small, one-master room, house.

Sawdust toilet and a washtub and garden sprinkler can for a shower. Plastic container sink. Small propane stove.

Plumbing in floor would be for future options.

Water is where you find it. I get my water direct from a spring. Friend has a well, but they don't like taste of water. About every two weeks he comes by and fills up several 5-gallon containers. Hose runs to a standard household filter, then outgoing line into his container. Spring put out many times the clear water I could possibly use.

Depending on location consider 2" x 6" wall studs. You can go with 2" x 6" or erect with stardard 2" x 4" and scab on a piece of 2" x 2". Lets you up the R-value of insulation. Several options for heating. In summer put fans in the windows.

In the local area used semi-trailer box can be had for $1,000-$1,500 delivered. Don't know about the price of shipping containers.


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## Deb862 (Jun 22, 2005)

Thanks guys. Very good points Mountainview and definitely ones we live by! 

DH is thinking that if we build an outbuilding/barn/garage with a slab where we could either pull the MH in or maybe an overhang to park it under next to the building, and then like you said, have them hook up electrical, septic, and water (we definitely want utilities!) to that we could live there 8 months a year while saving and building a cabin that would eventually be our residence. Around most places here they've told me the smallest residence one can legally build is 800 sf so that would be perfect (and pretty inexpensive!). 

I really like this idea and if we parked the RV inside the outbuilding it would be unseen until in a few years we could build our small home. Does anyone know what outbuildings like that cost? It would have to be high enough to accommodate the RV and large enough for us to fit the RV and have the other half to spread out in. I do know a slab around here would be anywhere around 5-8K but what do you think on the building if we hired it out?


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

For something to pull the RV into maybe consider one of those metal hoop buildings. Then whatever modifications done inside it wouldn't "really" need to be inspected or permitted. Not sure of the costs for the bigger buildings of that type.
And when you get your house done it can become the rv's garage and storage shed


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

my daughter (she was 3rd grade) and I lived the winter in a bus in north arkansas in the middle of forest nowhere. we had only a small wood stove. no other amenities. yes it was small, and insulation was the main problem, but we live, did fine, and are better for the experience.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

Deb862 said:


> DH is thinking that if we build an outbuilding/barn/garage with a slab where we could either pull the MH in or maybe an overhang to park it under next to the building, and then like you said, have them hook up electrical, septic, and water (we definitely want utilities!) to that we could live there 8 months a year while saving and building a cabin that would eventually be our residence.


I would suggest that you put the rv next to the shop building under an over hang, or even away from the shop a bit under one of the metal rv ports, some of which are considered 'portable' and not taxed as structures in some areas.

Living in an RV that is inside a metal building has a couple of issues. One of which it is usually dark and dank in there with few or no windows, no natural light getting to the rv and a crappy view out the windows of the rv. This might not sound like a big deal and people sometimes counter with, 'well we won't be spending much time in the RV'. Maybe, maybe not, but living in a dank metal building gets old real fast. The second issue is if there is no separation wall between the shop space and the RV then you get into a whole bunch of smells and environmental things that end up permeating the RV and surrounding space. Sawdust, weld smoke, grinding dust, gas, oil, paint over-spray, various solvents etc. So now you are essentially living in a dark, dank, smelly, sometimes smokey environment. Believe me, there is nothing quite like going to bed at night and needing to keep all the windows closed because the building smells like weld smoke or kerosene. 

Better to put the RV next to the shop under an overhang, or better yet away from the shop under an RV port such that the roof is covered but the sides and ends are open for light and view. This method also provides a bit of physiological benefit as it gives you a place to, 'go home to' at the end of the day without having to actually leave the property. Going from working inside the shop directly to the inside of the RV at the end of the day never really feels like going home or stopping the work. These projects can be very stressful on a marriage and it's important to have some physical separation (even if it is only 50 feet) between the 'job' (house or shop) and 'home' (RV). Further, there will be times during the project where you and your spouse cannot stand to be around each other and having a place to go cool off can be a benefit.

And whatever your time-line is for the completion of the house, double it now, same with the budget. You may very well be living in the RV longer then you expect so it is in your best interest to set up so it's somewhat enjoyable to live in.

Best of luck!


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## Seeria (Jul 21, 2006)

Well I've never done it but we're getting ready. Buying a school bus and converting it to an RV, something like this gent did http://www.vonslatt.com/bus-main.shtml

We'll use it to camp out on land we buy eventually but no way in HECK would I winter in one. The mold issues are Huge imo so we'll be going to NM and AZ for the winters until the house is built.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

I lived in a shed for several months of an Alberta summer and winter: YES insualtion is a problem! And we had no utilities. It worked, it was the only option at the time, but I'm glad it's over.

I'll agree with Wayne02's assessment of where to park the trailer only if the place you live doesn't have anything that resembles what I would call winter (snow, wind, temps of -15C or lower). 

IF you have sunshine and no winds, living in a motorhome outside is not really so bad (we have one now, have used it for accommodations when visiting family etc, and it's small but workable).

HOWEVER as soon as the wind picks up or the temp drops, you'd want it to be indoors or you'll be paying to heat the world, dealing with frozen pipes, and rocking all night in the wind.  

Maybe park outside in summer and move inside in winter? Construction generally covers more than one season .. well, here, anyhow.


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## Deb862 (Jun 22, 2005)

That's exactly what we're considering doing Seeria, moving it South for the winter, most likely AZ or CA or somewhere, then coming back in the spring until the cabin is finished.

Very good points Wayne, thanks. I do definitely like sun shining in the window in the morning LOL! Also have allergies so moving it outside would be a better idea.


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## gwhilikerz (Aug 7, 2006)

I remember my Grandparents living in a travel trailer back in the 50's and 60's. This was their fulltime home and I don't remember any problems. I loved spending the night there. Of course this was a big step up from the two room shacks they used to live in. I am trying to buy that old trailer from some of my cousins now. It is still a solid old Airstream.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Not all states are really strict about keeping people from camping on their own land, but I know that in Oregon, they will catch illegal buildings going up by air surveillance and come make you tear them down, even if nobody has said a word. Some years back, there were several cases reported of illegal houses being found and the owners forced to tear them down, or the state tore them down.

Kathleen

ETA: I've been told that in Texas, as long as you are outside the towns, nobody much cares what you build or whether you camp on your land.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

...................One factor too remember about heating an Rv , When you utilize propane water will accumulate on the insides of the glass and will freeze UNless you have Thermopayne windows which are double glazed with a vacuum in between . IF , that moisture is able too move down into the inside wall between the window frame and the wall it can cause problems ! 
...................Heating with small , 1500 watt electric heaters doesn't produce water , on the inside as far as I can tell ! , fordy


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Sister and BIL travel a lot so I pay their electric bill and they repay me. Last month my bill was about $200. Their's was about $263. Contacted them and asked if the meter reading was correct. Mike say yes. Reason it was so high is they kept a 1,500 watt electric heater running in their fifth wheel trailer so pipes wouldn't freeze. He figured even though costly, still cheaper than to keep having to refill small propane bottles.


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## Va. goatman (May 12, 2006)

About 20 years ago I pulled a old camper onto a friends 1700 acre cattle ranch I spent 3 yrs there. It was the best time of my life I saved enough to buy the place I have now 28 acres and a house Mostly full of junk I never use I had very little back then but life was really good


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## Dexter (Sep 27, 2008)

I've been living in a fifth wheel, will be 5 years this July. No regrets, even without indoor plumbing. It was worth it as I am building my dream home on my dream land.
If I knew it would have been 5 years (house nearing completion now) I would have installed a decent woodstove to save on energy bills AND keep out the damp in winter.
I'm not sure if I could have done this with a spouse, might not have been enough room.
Definitely use a sawdust toilet.
Make an outdoor shower, try those "camping" solar showers for $20.


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## nubiansinny (Jul 31, 2007)

HHMM Seems you could by a small house that needs some fixing up on a good piece of land here in Upstate for the same as it would cost to buy a trailer to travel in and the land... so why would you?


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## Deb862 (Jun 22, 2005)

Nubiansinny, we had been looking in CNY for almost 1-1/2 years when the whole gas lease thing hit. Now it is very hard to find anything decent for sale that is not leased, next to leased land, or in an area where they will be drilling at some point (i've heard mostly all state land has been leased also). Listings have dropped dramatically and anything that is listed is suspect right now. 

We are in the Capital district currently and anything from here through Schoharie county and even Montomgery county with good quality land is very expensive and pretty much out of reach for us. We can buy a house up to 230K (which would get us a house with 3-6 or so acres) but after giving it much thought we really don't want to take on that kind of payment for 30 years. Also, as we get older we find the winters to be hard on the body (hubby has a lot of hardware in his back and has severe chronic pain/arthritis issues) so we're thinking of going South in teh winter. Figure if we're going South in the winter maybe it would be better to have a 'home' that we can move.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

Deb862 said:


> Also, as we get older we find the winters to be hard on the body (hubby has a lot of hardware in his back and has severe chronic pain/arthritis issues) so we're thinking of going South in teh winter. Figure if we're going South in the winter maybe it would be better to have a 'home' that we can move.


You mentioned in the original post about getting a 5th wheel or motorhome. If your husband has back problems, and even if it is only age related pain for the both of you, I would suggest caution if considering a 5th wheel.

All of the older 5th wheels and most of the new 5th wheels that I'm familiar with do not allow for one to stand up fully next to the bed (at least for me at 6' 3"). This of course also depends on how tall you are, but I would not purchase a 5th wheel (or any rv) that did not allow for a) full access around both sides and the end of the bed, and/or b) did not allow one to fully stand up in the bedroom. 

Having to be stooped over when getting in/out of bed or when making the bed can really exasperate back conditions and make day to day life miserable. You will curse that RV every day you live in it if the sleeping quarters are not sufficient. Further, the few steps in a 5th wheel that lead from the living area to the bedroom area may not seem like a big deal right now, but as you age they can become a problem, especially if they are coupled with a low headroom situation in the bathroom and bedroom areas.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Make no mistake. I did NOT convert the bus to an rv. We were in a somewhat sucky situation due to the fact that at that time I was running from my problems. We threw a couple beds, a table, a portable toilet, and a wood stove in there, and lived in it like that. All the seats were out, but otherwise absolutley no modifications. I ran the stove pipe out a window, and put some silver fire resistant insulation sheets on the walls. I covered the windows except a few with cardboard, and used some old metal sheet roofing to prop up around the outside to keep wind from blowing under. It was the most janky, primitive conditions you can imagine. I did it with a child. You can survive in an rv just fine.


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## byexample (Aug 28, 2009)

Living in a RV during winter can be quite trying. Try to plan it so that you won't have to be living in an RV for any longer than necessary. And most importantly, don't spend all your construction money on your temporary housing.

I've seen so many folks move out onto their land in a fancy travel trailer with the expectation that they'd live in it short-term while building their house. Problem is that many people spend too much on the travel trailer and then don't have the money to build something "real" to live in.

Many of the people that I've seen "wash out" of the homesteading lifestyle went back to civilization because life in a travel trailer became too harsh and confined. Many of them put way to much money and energy into their "temporary" living situation... so much so that it became their permanent living situation.

So my advice is that if you do plan to go this route that you have a very clear exit strategy and timeline for getting out of the RV.


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## Gianni (Dec 9, 2009)

fordy said:


> ...................One factor too remember about heating an Rv , When you utilize propane water will accumulate on the insides of the glass and will freeze UNless you have Thermopayne windows which are double glazed with a vacuum in between . IF , that moisture is able too move down into the inside wall between the window frame and the wall it can cause problems !
> ...................Heating with small , 1500 watt electric heaters doesn't produce water , on the inside as far as I can tell ! , fordy


Are you using unvented heaters? If not get your heater checked out. A properly installed propane heater should not be putting out moisture. An unvented one will put out about one gallon of water for each gallon of propane burned.


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## Ode (Sep 20, 2006)

You could live there on a temporary basis in your RV just fine, even in winter. The problem is keeping somewhat insulated from the cold. A polebarn might be a good option, and it could be put up with some windows for light in the winter. They also have very large entry doors, so on nice days the doors could be left open. The nice thing about them is aside from being quite sturdy, after your cabin is up you will be able to use it for vehicle storage, equipment, etc.

You can go with the most basic option, or as others have said previously, you can get electric service (even if you go with wind/solar power) when you can afford it, and then build a simple bathroom if you like. The easiest way to get a working bathroom would be to use a composting toilet, and use rainwater catchment from the roof to plumb the sink. In the beginning you can run the grey water into a bucket for disposal outside, later you can actually set up pipes to run it away from the building. You can use a wood heater in the building to keep the inside warm and lessen the need for propane heat inside your RV, and when you use the building later as a workroom the wood heat will be very handy.

Take things in stages, and don't spend the cash on an RV...if you don't have one you are actually better off living in the pole barn. You will be able to get the composting toilet and bathroom set up a lot easier, the only thing you will need to do is to set up a camp kitchen and a sleeping area. It will be primitive but comfortable living, and easily converted to a workspace/storage building once the cabin is finished. Get a few lanterns for light at night and you are set. My opinion is that unless you are planning on a large cabin, the building process won't take as long as you think and you can be living in it within a few months at most.

And camp kitchens are pretty easy, you just need a very sturdy table to put your stove and drinking water on, and for doing dishes. Food can be stored in large plastic totes, and you can use a small propane fridge or a cooler for items needing to be kept cold. My hubby and I have lived in a tent for weeks at a time and were perfectly comfortable with a simple life. You just have to make small adjustments to what you would normally do. Just think of the pole barn as a really large, really sturdy tent!


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

My husband's niece and her husband lived in a tent while building their house. That was for one summer so the authorities didn't object. Another person we know lived in a travel trailer on his own land for three years. No one said anything until someone reported him. Then he was forced to move out of the trailer. Here one needs permits for everything! However we have an old aluminum 50 year old trailer we want to use as a camp. Law says we can't use it as a camp on our farm land. We need an official house lot, well, septic etc. Sooo---you can guess the rest. The farm is fenced. Out of sight, out of mind. We are out and about the farm working and in and out the house for whatever. But it sure is nice waking up where no one can see if your lights are on!


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