# Kune Kune x Large Black Hog



## bugsbunny (Mar 15, 2011)

Using these two breeds, tedious record keeping, very selective pairing, and enough time, do you think that someone could come up with a "lowline" large black hog?

I was thinking that it would be great for smaller land owners that want a pig they can GRAZE. 

The two breeds are known to be very friendly, very good grazers, good mothers, with a finer grained meat than the factory pig breeds.

The goal would be an adult animal that topped out at a smaller size, with 400 pounds being a large specimen.

Animals that reached 250 pounds the fastest would be selected for breeding.

Attention would be paid to litter size, fertility, longevity, foraging and grazing tenacity, docility, etc.

Do you think that these two breeds could be successfully used as the foundation for a smaller, more productive version, of the grazing large black?

Thanks. Any comments are welcome.


----------



## bugsbunny (Mar 15, 2011)

I was thinking that you would probably be best served to use a fully mature Kune Kune boar on virgin large black girls. This way the breeding would be physically easier for the boar lol, and more likely to result in more F1 females.

Then those F1s could be bred back to a Kune Kune boar. Once you were able to get a uniform product out of the hybrid offspring you could start selecting for other traits.

Again, just thoughts on a screen. Your thoughts appreciated.


----------



## bugsbunny (Mar 15, 2011)

Maybe it would even be possible to create an orange grazer using kunes and tams, and a black grazer using kunes and large blacks?

I don't personally care what color the pigs are. I just thought that having to genetically different animals bred toward the same standards could be valuable in providing hybrid vigor down the line. 

Plus the orange grazers might be a little better where there is more forage to be found under the ground than there is on top of it. 

I'm just tossing ideas out here to see what people think.


----------



## Menglish (May 7, 2009)

I personally see no real reason to do this. BUT if I were to do it I would use American Guinea Hogs as opposed to the Kunekunes. You'd have a black hog so colors wouldn't be an issue. You'd have a smaller hog to start with in my opinion would more compliment what you are trying to accomplish.


----------



## bugsbunny (Mar 15, 2011)

I like the Kunes because they are great grazers and their personalities are supposed to be great. 

It would be nice to have pigs that one person could move easily and that wouldn't tear up your whole paddock while there was still plenty of food left above the soil.

How do the AGH stack up against Kunes as far as actual grazing instead of foraging?

Do you think that the AGH boar would be able to get it in with the large black gilt? LOL. On the same principle that I know you can breed a male chihuahua to a female great dane I just don't see how in the heck he's gonna git 'r done LOL.


----------



## Fat Man (Mar 9, 2011)

Have you looked up Idaho Pasture Pigs? They're the result of a similar experiment.


----------



## Menglish (May 7, 2009)

Put a boar in with a sow and they will figure out a way, trust me! I know little about the kune kune but the AGH have great personalities and from what I saw were decent 'grazers'. However no pig is a true grazer. Be aware of claims to the contrary.


----------



## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

The beauty of pigs is they are so plastic. They are so malleable. With good breeding techniques, a sizable population and the willingness to make tough decisions you can rapidly change your herd genetics in just a few generations. Fundamental advancements can be made in a just a decade.

A big part of this is working the numbers. Pigs have a lot of piglets and a lot of litters per years. This gives you exponential power for selecting and emphasizing traits very quickly.

Learn the basics of genetics - there are lots of good books.

Pickup the basics of pig genetics.

Figure out what your target pig should be like. What characteristics will it need? What starting characteristics do you have that are available to work towards your idea.

Breeding is fun. It is a process. It will take years and loads of patients. Enjoy the journey.


----------



## ridgerunner1965 (Apr 13, 2013)

the ipp or idaho pasture pigs are what you want already.mite be hard to find tho.


----------



## bugsbunny (Mar 15, 2011)

ridgerunner1965 said:


> the ipp or idaho pasture pigs are what you want already.mite be hard to find tho.


I have no interest in Idaho Pasture Pigs, so they're not what I want at all. I am only interested in creating my own pig. I'm sure that they are great animals for some people, but I have zero interest in the creatures myself. 

The large blacks are out. Apparently once upon a time they were a decent animal. Now they're watered down genetic poo compared to what they once were. 

I really wish that people would take animal husbandry a little more seriously. If you're going to just breed garbage you shouldn't be allowed to register animals. 

When I was in college if one of the guys on the football team was caught smoking you were to immediately punch them in the face. I wish that I could do the same to bad pig breeders.


----------



## bugsbunny (Mar 15, 2011)

In fact, could someone just delete this? I have no interest in Kune Kunes or Large Blacks anymore. The breeding stock that is out there is beyond garbage, and even if it were good stock Kune Kunes are waaay overpriced here. They're $50 garbage pigs everywhere but America.


----------



## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

bugsbunny said:


> In fact, could someone just delete this? I have no interest in Kune Kunes or Large Blacks anymore. The breeding stock that is out there is beyond garbage, and even if it were good stock Kune Kunes are waaay overpriced here. They're $50 garbage pigs everywhere but America.


I have a male and female Yorkshire just right for breeding age.
The first 1000 bucks takes them both. 

Best,
Gerold.


----------



## cedarcreekranch (Nov 24, 2010)

bugsbunny, that is a pretty rude statement to make about entire breeds of animals. Since you have not seen ALL the animals in those breeds, I hardly think you are in a position to make such remarks. I don't know about kunekunes but I DO know about Large Blacks and just as in any group of animals, there are good ones and bad ones. I try to raise good ones and since they are rare and the gene pool limited, it takes some work, trial, and error. I imagine kunekune breeders are in the same position. As for prices, a breeder is entitled to set any price he wishes on his animals, and it's the buyer's choice to pay it or not.


----------



## TamiJoyFarm (Oct 18, 2012)

Fat Man said:


> Have you looked up Idaho Pasture Pigs? They're the result of a similar experiment.


I have the Idaho Pasture Pigs which are KuneKune/Duroc and Berkshire. I love my IPPs as they are grazers with wonderful personalities and super docile. My two gilts are pregnant due toward the end of September. Will keep you all posted as the due date comes closer. My biggest concern is whether the two gilts will be deliver successfully as the IPP boar is quite a bit bigger than the two gilts.


----------



## Beggs n Achin' (Feb 26, 2021)

I have AGH/KK and where I live I catch a lot of flack from folks that say "those little pigs are just garbage". Well, ya, if that's what you feed them, you get nothing but fat. Shetland ponies founder on rich feed too. Same reason. I don't grow pedigree or purebred anything. I grow dinner on the cheap, and as natural as possible. I also don't castrate or do vaccinations. I'm just so evil and bad. Lol. I'm also not a huge farm. Been studying Joel Salatin's methods for 8-10 years now and attempt to duplicate that. Little pigs are something my short, getting older, weak self can manage. 

But customers were balking about 1. Little pig and 2. Boar taint from no castrating, which has not happened with my pigs. 

So we researched, learned how, did a litter of castrating and have made the decision to not ever do that again. Sugar Mountain Farm doesn't either. I'm not even gonna debate it. It's not gonna happen here. 

So the thing I can fix is a little size. So I bought a couple large breed sows, Hamp/York/Duroc and bred them to my AGH/KK boar. I've been following their progress w the first batch and documenting on my website beggsnachin.webstarts.com. . I'll have the first Youtube video uploaded there here pretty quick. It's uploading now. 

So the weights on the male at 9 months was 125 lbs, and the female at 9 months was 108 lbs. Some factors to consider is that they were in a stall w other various age piglets competing for food, it was winter, and I fed them very lean. The AGH/KK's that were in their stall got VERY fat. They required every bit as much grain as their large hog mothers, annoying. 
I see at 9 months once being seperated out, they are putting on some growth NOW. Ugh. I see one of their siblings out in the field growing a lot faster bc their mother was a fast grower. These two, from the same litter, had a mother that was also a slow starter. So this slow starter gene carried down to them. Their mother is HUGE now, but we are talking cost effectiveness. I have a second batch of big/littles fixing to wean in a couple weeks, from a 4-H gilt. I guess she's a sow now. This one was sold to me bc at 7 months she was held back from slaughter bc she hadn't gotten big enough yet. The smaller one of the bunch. So maybe her piggies will be slow growers, too? I dunno. I know little pigs. I like that they make dinner on almost no grain. So this big/little mix is something I'm learning. Right now I'm arguing w hubs about taking a "biopsy" to check for boar taint and breed that out. We haven't had it yet in ten years but we are i trodicing big pigs now and those folks castrate. So there would be no way of them knowing if boar taint exists in their lines. 

Pic of Rosalita's big/little babies attached.


----------

