# driving harness



## minister man (Jan 14, 2007)

My horse/team driving experience comes only from draft horses and draft harness. having said that, I was telling you all the other day that I purchased a 3 yearold standardbred off the track and thought I might take up driving. I purchased a leather racing harness, that has the saddle reins and a breastplate, about 1-1 1/2 inches wide and traces. It does not have a breaching only a crupper. 

So how much can she pull with a harness like that? I have never used breast harness before, so I have no idea. A jog cart came with it, but it needs new tires and wheels, and one of the shafts in not really in good shape. I am thinking I can use the shaft for a pattern, and bend 1 1/4 electrical conduit. I am looking to find a place to find wheels first. so you think that electrical conduit will work for shafts? She can pulle that with a racing harness, but can she pull a small wagon, or does she then need a collar? thanks


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

That type of harness is for a jog cart or governess cart. I am assuming it has thimbles for the ends of the shafts.

If you get into light carriages, you can still use the breast plate and tugs to pull. but you will need some sort of breechin' so the horse is stopping the carriage with his butt and not just his tail bone providing brakes by way of a surcingle.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

I doubt conduit will be strong enough. you need something that isn't going to bend easily if the horse tries to turn sideways, or do something "silly". 

For safety, I'd want something that was very hard to bend - something you need to heat to do so. 

it's not so much what she can pull with this, but what she can stop with that type of a harness. On the track, fast breaking isn't needed so you have time to slow a horse back down. For off track, you may want something so you can stop fast and hard if needed, without the horse panicking by having too much pressure on the tail, or worse, having to come off the tail and then you run the cart into the back end of the horse. 

I would think you can buy the breach part, and then weld loops on the shaft to attach to.


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## minister man (Jan 14, 2007)

Does any one have any experience with "FALSE BREECHING"? that doesn't attach to the harness, but from one shaft to the other right behind the horses rump so the cart can only go forward that far and then the strap hits the rump to hold it back? I was reading about it on line, but have never really seen it. 

thanks


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## minister man (Jan 14, 2007)

with driving harness the pad, breeching and crupper are all exactly the same weither you use it with breast harness or a collar and hames is it not?\

so if you had both a collar and hames and a breast plate you would be able to use the harness for just about anything. What are each type of harness used for? 

thanks


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

You may want to purchase some basic Driving books, to get a better idea of what light horses like a Standarbred are commonly used for, harness that helps them do their work.

Breastcollar DRIVING harness is quite different than RACING harness, in thickness of leather, width of strap goods, width of harness saddle for weight bearing and having breeching. Breastcollar is preferred with light horse driving, because it is more adaptable than the full neck colars of draft horse harness. A fat horse, fit horse, thin horse, can all wear the same breastcollar to drive. The same horse in each of those body conditions, would need 3 different full neck collars, to fit him correctly, prevent damage to his neck in work.

Your young horse is going to need some retraining, to learn how to be a REAL DRIVING HORSE out in the world. The Track is a special place, rules change when horse gets driven off the track setting. Horse has to LEARN to use breeching. He has NEVER had pressure on his rump with those light carts, so he needs to learn to lean into that pressure, not run away from it! He also has to learn to "give" to the rein pressure. Racing Standardbreds usually LEAN INTO the rein pull, to get balanced for speed on the track. Totally OPPOSITE of pleasure Driving where you pull the reins to STOP! 

Young horse could be the BEST animal, but will be extremely confused with the change from Track to Farm setting without help in his retraining from a PATIENT, EXPERIENCED driver. Sorry, you may need to send him to a trainer for this work, he is unlikely to respond calmly as Draft horses may do when surprised.

I would SERIOUSLY advise you to get ANOTHER wooden shaft to replace the damaged one. Conduit is good for running wire thru, NOT going to stand up to sideways push of horse turning the jog cart in turns. Jog carts are best suited for PREPARED surfaces like track, roads, driveways, ring/arenas. They get flat tires when driven over rutted surfaces, fields. Jog bikes are also EXTREMELY uncomfortable to sit on, ride on, with no springs or back rest. Driver usually balances with rein pressure, which works on smooth track surface, but is harsh for the pleasure Driving horse. Mouth gets numb, can't tell when you want turns, speed changes, halts. Especially true if you plan to drive longer distances of several miles.

False breeching is usually only seen on some specialized vehicles. Horse STILL needs to learn that pressure on his rump won't hurt, needs to lean into the pressure so you can halt the vehicle! I would not advise using false breeching on your horse and jog bike. Regular breeching around his rump will limit how far the vehicle behind, can move forward once horse stops. Prevents vehicle hitting him in the rump or hocks, so he starts kicking. Horse STILL has to be trained to use his breeching, BEFORE you put on that vehicle and expect him to work.

Wider harness saddle of DRIVING harness will spread the shaft weight out more on his back. Track harness is narrow, only used for short training times, often with driver leaning backwards in his race or jog cart, so there is no shaft weight on horse. Heavier pleasure vehicles that are comfortable to the people, need wider saddles with a tree inside, for carrying that bigger weight. Harness saddle should have NOTHING touching his spine, so horse carries no weight of cart on his back bones.

A good book for beginning Pleasure Driving is Doris Ganton's "Training the Driving Horse". It has good photos, explains fitting, training before ever hitching the animal. You have different expectations from a light horse than you do of a Draft horse. So they need different handling to prepare them for their work.

I suggest you ask around for a Driving horse trainer, take some lessons. Driving is actually a potentially dangerous activity, if you don't know what you are doing, miss some details in putting things together well, have a young or inexperienced horse out front. Being safe takes work! 

Having your equipment strong, well maintained, is critical to avoiding failure of one part that could lead to an accident or wreck. You don't shortcut or change the original design with other material, and expect it to function as the maker designed it to. Shafts are made to be replaced if broken or the wrong size. They wear out if left in the weather, get old and dried out, break easily. New shafts are available from carriage shops, online stores, suppliers, and not that expensive. You just need to know the sizes, to order the correct new one.

Sorry, seen too many wrecks from untrained horses, poor harness, things put to the wrong uses, people doing shortcuts. Wrecking takes all the fun out of Driving. Probably will ruin the horse, in making it untrustworthy in further driving activities.


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## minister man (Jan 14, 2007)

I guess I made more than one bad decision! it seemed true at the time. The trainner at the track was telling my how he would go about getting her ready to ride, but went on to say that driving would be no problem cause she was well broke for that. Maybe he was just telling me what I wanted to hear, or maybe it just sounded reasonable. He told me all about how the amish used them as buggy horses ect. I don't know a trainer, and am working on a pretty tight buget right this minute, because i have been off sick for a while this spring. Does the book you mentioned talk about retraining a standardbred?


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Book is about training A HORSE or pony to drive. It brings them along from knowing nothing, to being able to be hitched and how the person manages things to get equine to do this. Your animal has already pulled carts, has experience in driving, just doesn't have the needed experience for driving anyplace except the Track setting. 

The breeching, taking a load, will need to be trained in, because pleasure driving animals do a different job than race horses do. Most well-mannered horses MOVE AWAY when pushed, trained into them. Driving horse must HOLD or push BACK when the harness, breastcollar or breeching around the rump, is putting pressure on them. Kind of backwards from what they already know, but REQUIRED to prevent runaway or no forward with heavier vehicle behind.

Amish DO use a lot of Standardbreds, with a variety of ways to train them into the new life. Some methods are hard on the horses, like tying them to a larger horse and dragging him along, putting on 30-40 MILES a day, until he is exhausted enough to stand. Then do that every day for a while and he "is broke". Other Amish folks have better training skills and know HOW to get horse accepting new stuff in his new job easily, cooperating to progress into a very steady driving horse on the roads. Amish doesn't automatically mean they are good or bad horse folks, just because they use horses a lot. If YOU don't know these skills because you have never retrained a racing Standardbred, you will need some help to get thru it safely.

A pleasure driving animal must WHOA and stand, as long as you need him to. This has to be trained into him. Should get good enough that he will about Whoa on voice alone, because this is your "emergency brake" should a rein break or tangle in the shaft, horse gets spooked. Him stopping at Whoa is always GOOD, gets praised for that. Then you progress into driving on the roads where he must face traffic, have traffic come up behind, stay steady for you. He has to learn to ignore things like mailboxes, yard decorations, loud noises that happen suddenly, barking dogs, dogs charging out into the roads, bicycles that come and go almost noiselessly. That is a LOT to expect from ANY horse, let alone a young one in a new setting, not his familiar Track. So you do short sessions, learn a little each time you work together.

At only 3yrs, he is VERY young to Driving. His bones and brain are still developing, so short sessions are good, not lots of miles down the road yet. Those leg bones and joints are not mature until he is about 6yrs, so hard work now, may cause problems later on. Older, 7-12yrs, Amish horses with many miles usually have terrible legs and leg problems. Some don't know which leg to limp on. Much is preventable by letting the animals mature, before asking them to work really hard. Pleasure driving seldom asks so much of a horse, but still can be more than a young horse needs if you do lots of distance. Driver and passengers will ask LOTS more distance of a horse than they would EVER RIDE HIM, because people never get sore driving! 

And putting horse out in the field for some time off now and again, doesn't hurt the young animal if you can't work with him now, can't find any help at the moment.

The book I mentioned is often available used, so checking Ebay or Amazon, can get you a price break in purchasing. There are other beginner books, I just can't think of them at the moment. You probably will want to lengthen or remove the overcheck so horse can get his head down if he needs to. In Pleasure Driving, most folks don't use a checkrein. Horse can hold head comfortably in a natural postion, needs to be able to lower his head when pulling uphill or a heavy load in heavy going. Overcheck is a speed thing in racing, not helpful at all in pleasure driving. And no, check rein WON'T prevent horse from kicking if he decides he needs to, false belief. A kicking strap is what you want with a beginner horse and it goes across his croup down to the shafts. If he humps his back to kick, he has to lift the WHOLE cart and load, which is almost impossible at that body location. Kicking strap is a great PREVENTION device, so driving horse is greatly discouraged from kicking or even trying. Kicking straps can be purchased from harness makers, don't come as part of a harness.


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## minister man (Jan 14, 2007)

I am firmilar with the breeching process, because the draft horses used it as well in the teams to hold back loads on the wagon, or single on the rack or something. The draft team of ponies I trained from colts, used breeching and it didn't seem to too long for them to get use to that. I have been driving her around on the long reins, teaching her woe and walk. She is getting better at those now. I probably will never be driving more than a mile or two at a time, so 30-40 miles a day......isn't going to happen.
I specifically looked for a young horse that was too slow to race, because I figured she would come with less strain to her joints and limbs than one that was injured or old. She seems to know how to stand, and it doesn't bother her. I am a straight stall person, and although she is just learning stall manners now when she is in for her supper and breakfast, she seems to be gentle enough in the stall. 

I have trained one draft horse, 2 draft ponies, and 2 saddle horses, so I have a little idea what I am doing, but I have never "retrained" a horse before. Silly me, I thought this time I was getting a horse that I would just be able to hook up, and drive away, without all the hours of training. It never dawned on me that there would be that much difference between what she did before and what I want her to do now.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Minister man, your new horse is well started to drive. The horses at the track are driven around the stable area at the walk and have nice manners. So she will know the difference between a mad dash and moving under control.

It's just that she has to learn some different equipment and the roads she will be on will be different. She's seen trucks and golf carts and horse vans. She hasn't been out on a road with heavy traffic.

It's not difficult for them to learn to stop a jog cart. Just start her in a controlled environment and don't expect her to stop weight while she learns. I would use a person at her head to steady her and let her know that "stop" is what is wanted.

She'll be fine. A little patience on your part and give her a chance to understand what you want.

Conduit won't work for the shafts. The shaft is used to turn and stop the cart, not just hold it up. You don't want anything that bends easily.


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