# Help me choose a computer



## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

After months of dithering back and forth, I've decided to buy a new desktop computer. I'm going to buy it from Walmart since it is easy to return it if there's a problem in the first year. 

I tend to keep my computers for a long time -- my current one was purchased in 2004 and I had the memory upgraded to 2 GB a couple of years ago. So, I've decided to spend a bit extra to get one with larger memory than I probably need in hopes it will last 6-8 years before becoming obsolete.

I'm looking at the following two packages. 

HP Pavilion p7-1003wb Desktop PC Bundle ($599.00):

Key Features and Benefits:

&#8226;AMD Athlon II 650 Quad-Core processor
3.20GHz, 2MB L2 Cache
&#8226;8GB of DDR3 SDRAM system memory (expandable to 16GB)
Give you the power to handle most power-hungry applications and tons of multimedia work
&#8226;1TB SATA hard drive
Store 666,000 photos, 285,000 songs or 526 hours of HD video and more
&#8226;SuperMulti DVD Burner
Watch movies, and read and write CDs and DVDs in multiple formats on your HP desktop PC with monitor
&#8226;10/100Base-T Ethernet
Connect to a broadband modem or wired broadband router with wired Ethernet
&#8226;23" HP LED monitor
ATI Radeon HD 4200 integrated graphics with up to 3067MB total available graphics memory

Additional Pavilion Home Computer and Monitor Features:

&#8226;15-in-1 memory card reader
&#8226;6 x USB 2.0 ports, 1 x headphone jack, 1 x microphone jack, 1 x RJ-45 Ethernet port, 1 x coaxial digital audio out, 1 x microphone/line-in/line-out, 1 x rear speaker out, 1 x side speaker out, 1 x center (subwoofer) jack
&#8226;1 x MiniCard, 3 x PCI Express (x1) slots, 1 x PCI Express (x16) slot, 2 x external 5.25" bays, 1 x external 3.5" bay, 2 x internal 3.5" bays


The other is a ZT with the following ($699.00): 

The ZT Affinity 7159Ma Desktop enables advanced home computing, featuring VISION Technology from AMD with the responsive multitasking capability you need for demanding tasks like managing and manipulating digital images, audio and video. An AMD Phenom II 955 Quad-Core Processor combines with 16GB of system memory to provide breathtaking speed, and a vast 2TB hard drive lets you store massive quantities of music and high definition video. A 23" widescreen LED display with integrated stereo speakers provides crisp clear visuals and rapid response times. Industry-leading support and advanced digital media capabilities make this system a perfect solution for enhanced performance computing.
ZT Affinity 7159Ma Desktop PC Bundle:

Key Features and Benefits: 
&#8226;AMD Phenom II X4 Quad-Core 955 processor
3.4GHz

&#8226;16GB DDR3 SDRAM system memory
Gives you the power to handle most power-hungry applications and tons of multimedia work
&#8226;2TB SATA hard drive
Store 1,300,000 photos, 571,000 songs or 1,053 hours of HD video and more
&#8226;22x DVD /-R/RW drive
Watch movies, and read and write CDs and DVDs in multiple formats
&#8226;10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet
Connect to a broadband modem or wired broadband router with wired Ethernet
&#8226;23" widescreen LED display with integrated stereo speakers
Integrated ATI Radeon HD 3000 Series Graphics

Additional Features: 
&#8226;19-in-1 memory card reader
&#8226;8 x USB 2.0 ports, 6 x audio ports, 1 x DVI port, 1 x RJ-45 Ethernet port, 1 x VGA port, 1 x HDMI port, 1 x PS/2 port
&#8226;2 x PCI slots, 1 x PCI Express (x1) slot, 1 x PCI Express (x16) slot, 2 x external 5.25" bays, 1 x external 3.5" bay, 4 x internal 3.5" bays

I don't know the difference between the AMD Phenom or Athlon processors, and I'm not sure it makes any difference since I am not a heavy user. They are both quad core. I know I don't need either 8 or 16 GB RAM memory, but who knows what the standard will be in 6-8 years? 

I like the fact the ZT is assembled and serviced here in the States. But I've also had good luck with HP in the past. 

So... any and all comments and suggestions welcome. Or other recommendations. The only thing I know for sure is I want is a quad core with at least 6 GB memory and a 23" monitor.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

I haven't bought a new computer since the mid-nineties. Everything since then has been used. It really depends on how you're going to use the computer and whether you think a Walmart cheapie will last.

I don't have a need for massive storage nor am I an early adopter of any new MS OS. The latest OS I have is XP and it does everything I need. Personally I'd rather buy a used IBM Thinkpad that's built like a tank. The hard drives are easily swapped out. The later Thinkpads have the capacity for more memory than I'll ever use unless I update to a later version of MS memory hogging operating systems. So far I've bought three of the Thinkpads off eBay. The relatively cheap price means I can use a computer for a dedicated purpose.

I like buying something for a tenth or less of the original price. With WIFI here at the house I can take the laptop anywhere including a short distance outside and work where I want.

Keep in mind HP is talking about selling their PC business. I'm not sure where that stands. Obviously I'm not a big believer in the new is better philosophy.


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

What operating system do they both come with? I would assume with 64 bit Windows 7.
Do both have similar software programs?

Do both monitors provide 1080p high definition viewing? What is the refresh rate--which may keep fast action from blurring? What is the contrast ratio? Familiarize yourself with monitor/television set terms to see if both or either will provide EXCELLENT viewing. 

I have had excellent service from HP so I would prefer it, however the deal breaker for me would be that it is not shown as having an HDMI port which would be used to connect to a television set. However for extra $$$ a different video card could be added which would give one and still come in cheaper than the other.

Do both have plenty of expansion slots in the case for adding things if so desired? That is one thing I would look for if not getting a basic computer. 

Do both have similar power usage ratings? Not too long ago I selected a monitor to purchase and was surprised at how many 19 inch Acer models of the same price were available. The one I finally selected, with what I considered to have the best features, also consumed the least energy. 

I'm not sure if there will be any special sale prices on computers when Windows 8 is released or not. I have bought my last two computers on release date for deep discounts. Not sure you will want to wait until there as no official release date has even been set. For a look http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/technology/1108/gallery.windows_8_preview/index.html

Best wishes for a successful selection. Remember Black Friday is coming up so there may be some special pre-sale, sale, and post sale deals. Also Christmas sales and post Christmas sales if overstocked.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Unless you need to run a particular software for your job or hobby that requires current model computer, I'd go with used. Its not hard to find decent used computer even if you have to buy a new hard drive. Few people need the computing power of current computers if they just surf internet and do email.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

I had to smile at a couple of the responses. A few months ago I posted that I was thinking of purchasing a reconditioned computer and was advised not to as new ones were almost as cheap. 

Thanks for the list of questions, Wind. From looking at the two systems, it seems that the two monitors are pretty much identical--both LED, but the XT has built in speakers. I'm not sure where to get the power ratings on the CPUs, but the HP has a 220 power supply whereas the ZT has 350. From that I gather the ZT is overall more powerful. From what I can tell, it does appear the ZT has more expansion slots and other "goodies", but not the name brand. Hmmm .... decisions, decisions.


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

I've looked over the specs for the monitor of the HP and they are pretty good. Not excellent, but good. 33 watts consumption. Good viewing angles 170/160 which mean you can still see a good picture when standing to the side of the computer and whether you are sitting or standing. Refresh rate is 60 HZ. Expect that will be fine unless you are watching fast action sports, racing, some basketball, etc. 

Almost no specs at all are provided for the ZT monitor which kind of throws up a red flag to me. Low end, okay unit? I simply haven't a clue since they aren't given.

I did look at the owner reviews for the two computers. Only two responses for the ZT, one okay, the not not too good. For the HP mostly good with owners willing to recommend their units to their friends. 

You did point out the country of assembly previously. I expect either, no matter where assembled, will be made of foreign parts. 

The ZT does seem to have the edge on audio.

Your choice. I think either would serve you well.

I don't recall whether I gave an opinion on your older unit or not. Unless you have at some point upgraded your operating system in the past it will soon be outdated meaning an expenditure of $85 to $130 or so for a new one. You have already updated memory so it may not take a great deal to update depending upon what you use a system for. However it is always nice to treat yourself from time to time and keep the old unit in reserve---if you can justify the expenditure and it seems like you think so. 

Time for a Christmas present for yourself. Merry Christmas!


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

yes I also looked over and either one would be a very good choice. 
Have a merry Christmas. And enjoy a new computer, it is nice when a person gets a new one, and finds out just how slow the older one really was, and the speed of a nice new one. And then can enjoy it for many years to come.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

Thanks, all, for your comments, suggestions, and encouragement. I'm going with the ZT. I read several reviews and the company overall came out favourable--pretty much in line with HP and Acer (both of which I've owned in the past). I think Acer and Gateway are now combined, so decided not to go that route. Also, I like the idea of the option of being able to use two monitors. Not sure why I ever would, but .... 

It has been a long time since I spent this much on a computer, but I think the fact I keep them so long, it will be worth it. My very first computer in the early 80's was in this price range, and it boasted two floppy drives (way back before hard drives) and a B/W monitor. Oh, how things they do change!


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

One more question, if you don't mind. The ZT comes with a monitor with built in speakers. Could I also use another set of speakers at the same time? My hearing isn't what is used to be and when I watch a video I like to have the speakers closer to me that would be possible with ones built into a monitor.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Belfrybat said:


> One more question, if you don't mind. The ZT comes with a monitor with built in speakers. Could I also use another set of speakers at the same time? My hearing isn't what is used to be and when I watch a video I like to have the speakers closer to me that would be possible with ones built into a monitor.


Yes as it has Head set plug in on the front. Just below the CD tray.
So yes you can plug in a set of speakers into that.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Belfrybat said:


> I had to smile at a couple of the responses. A few months ago I posted that I was thinking of purchasing a reconditioned computer and was advised not to as new ones were almost as cheap.


I was assuming you werent deciding between a $499.99 used computer and a $500 new computer. Common sense comes into the equation too. However I will take a $50 used computer that meets my needs over a $500 new one. Depends where you shop and what your actual needs are. Personally I usually just buy a new motherboard with processor and memory to upgrade. Use my old case and get new power supply if needed. Oddly this usually cost much less than any new complete computer. 

I keep XP around for couple windows only programs I run occasionally offline, but dont update it and dont take it online. Linux works fine for my needs and its free. Also makes much better use of memory than latest windows machines that need obscene amounts memory just to run at faster than snails pace. Course if you need latest win7 for job or cause you are into gaming or something, then thats different.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

HermitJohn said:


> I was assuming you werent deciding between a $499.99 used computer and a $500 new computer. Common sense comes into the equation too. However I will take a $50 used computer that meets my needs over a $500 new one. Depends where you shop and what your actual needs are. Personally I usually just buy a new motherboard with processor and memory to upgrade. Use my old case and get new power supply if needed. Oddly this usually cost much less than any new complete computer.


Yes, I'm sure that putting together your own is much cheaper. But you obviously know how to "dither" with computers -- I don't. The one I currently have is just not doing the job well enough now that I have high speed internet access. Plus I do photo editing and the newer editors are made for Win 7, so upgrading to the newer OS made sense. The refurbished I looked at several months ago and wrote about here cost around $250-275. and ran XP. I've since decided that I might as well get a decent one that will do me hopefully for as long as the current one has. Plus I have the money now and might not in a year or so since my income dwindles a bit more each year. Or then again, perhaps I'm just rationalizing!


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

well see, your hobby with the photo editing software that you like requires you to have latest and greatest...

I think $250 probably little high for XP era computer. Depend on its specs I guess.

And if you need win7 and had to buy it separately, then that makes a home assembled computer too expensive. Cause they want too darn much for a retail version of windows. The companies that sell preassembled computers pay small fraction for windows license wholesale than you would pay retail. And they make most of that back getting paid to install all that junk trial software that you then have to waste time uninstalling.

And for me linux works great, no endless updates, no third party security software and updates to it. I need a newer version to do something, I just download it for free. So for me buying a new computer with windows would be more costly as I would just replace windows anyway. 

And its not hard to dither with computer. Usually best buy is new motherboard "assembly" that comes with new processor, fan, and memory. Usually sound and video "cards" are built into the motherboard. Dithering just means snapping motherboard assembly into case, connecting the power supply cable and the SATA cables and speaker/monitor/mouse/keyboard cables and voila ready to boot up and reinstall operating system. Its not like very early days of personal computers soldering together some kit with 1000s of tiny parts. Even the early PCs were mostly snap together, few more screws/bolts. You tended to have to buy and install sound and video cards as they werent built into the motherboard.


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## L.A. (Nov 15, 2007)

Where do you find used for $50.00, or even just used?
Around here used just never show up, unless I not looking in the right places.


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

L.A. said:


> Where do you find used for $50.00, or even just used?
> Around here used just never show up, unless I not looking in the right places.


Craig's List for your area would be a good place to start. Government surplus sales are another, radio call in shows for ads is another, old library computers, etc.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

L.A. said:


> Where do you find used for $50.00, or even just used?
> Around here used just never show up, unless I not looking in the right places.


Local ads around here seem to be trying to get $150 out of a $50 computer, but sure there are realistic ads too, I just dont look that often. You can get computers cheap at local junk auctions, sales of old library computers, or college/school computers, or of course ebay.

Personally I look on ebay. This takes patience. Any decent spec computer with low price is prime ground for sniper bids in last seconds. So lot disappointments if you hold fast to desire for low, low rock bottom price. Laptops are worse than desktops for this. But eventually you will find something that doesnt get bid up. Have to be VERY patient. And ALWAYS think of shipping cost as part of the price on anything you buy on ebay.

Not hard to get desktop around 1.5ghz to 2.5ghz single core, especially one without an operating system installed for $50 shipped off ebay. Laptops, the best deals are usually off lease corporate ones and they are generally missing their hard drive and have no operating system of course. Alas many are also missing the caddy and adapter needed to install another hard drive. For some the caddy/adapter is super cheap, like couple bucks cheap, and its just not a big deal. Others the caddy is rare and expensive to replace.

I have 3ghz desktop, but also an older 1.6ghz single core laptop that I drag to library and also use in winter when electric goes out. The desktop is pieced together one. I bought parts and put them in tower I already had. I got laptop super cheap, but it came with no caddy/adapter/hard drive and its pricey to replace the caddy on it. I just boot from a live Puppy linux cd. Plenty memory and Puppy loads from dvdrom and runs in ram memory. I can easily watch movie dvd this way if I want. Well silly thing has usb 1.1 ports so slow as molasses to use external usb drives when downloading file at library via their wifi system. And as I say no internal hard drive to download to, its usb or nothing. So I recently was looking for junker with busted screen or bad motherboard cheap that I could get caddy off of. 

Didnt find that but found an oddball Nspire laptop (rebranded Asus laptop) with 2ghz single core processor and USB 2.0 ports for $40 shipped. It would be twice that if it was a recognizable brand. Also comes with dvd burner. So decent enough. No hard drive or caddy of course. And replacement caddy doesnt seem available at any price. But the 2.0 usb means no problem to use external usb. And it has a built in card reader instead of floppy drive, so I could boot Puppy linux from a 2gb SD card if I wanted or usb flash key or external usb hard drive.

I guess XP can be installed on external usb drive but it wasnt intended for that so from what I read it can be tricky. But info is out there as people do this all time on low end Asus EEE linux netbooks that dont have hard drive. The low end EEE netbook just has internal flash drive and a slot for sd card and of course usb 2.0 ports. Low end linux EEE is only like 800mhz processor and tiny screen and still sells $75 to $100 used or around $150 new. The fancier EEE has internal hard drive and faster atom processor, but also much fancier price. The Nspire that i bought and should arrive tomorrow beats those specs all to heck with 2ghz processor and 15 inch screen. Yea weighs significantly more but not like I am going to carry it around all day every day either.

Being able and willing to use linux will give you lot more options, super cheap used computers either come with no operating system installed or some outdated operating system or some virus infected very screwed up operating system. And usually dont come with cds to reinstall windows.

Oh and on ebay if you are looking for cheap computer at say $100 to $150 level, one with windows ready to use out of box, beware of specs for that computer. Its not uncommon for people to stick copy win7 on some older XP computer hoping people will think the computer is newer than it is. Win7 from what I read really needs LOT memory to run correctly. So on some older computer designed for XP, it probably will run very slow.


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

IBM.com currently has 20% off all off-lease computers (both desktops and laptops) as well as free 1-year warranty and free shipping. I've purchased many off-lease systems from IBM, and have never had any problems.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

People were looking cheap computers, found ad in my email this morning, here are couple refurbished examples:

HP Compaq DC7700 w/ Intel Dual Core & Windows XP Pro 

Instant $10 off this week! 
&#8226; Intel Pentium D 945 3.4GHZ 
&#8226; 512MB DDR2, 60GB hard drive 
&#8226; 10/100/100 gigabit LAN 
&#8226; Windows XP Professional 

Only $139.99* 
http://3btech.net/hpcodcwiinpe.html 
HP / Compaq DC7100 Small Form Factor PC w/ Windows XP Pro 

Best seller on sale today! 
&#8226; Intel Pentium 4 3.0GHZ 
&#8226; 512MB DDR, 40GB hard drive 
&#8226; Ggigabit LAN, CD-ROM
&#8226; Windows XP Professional 

Only $89.99 
http://3btech.net/hpcodcsmfofa.html 

I've bought parts from these people in past. Excellent buisiness to deal with. And elderly friend, now deceased, got a generic all new desktop computer from them minus operating system four or five years ago. It was around $200 but that was few years ago. Have to go to their website for current pricing of such, assume they still sell them. I put Puppy Linux on it for him and worked fine for light surfing and email that he wanted to do. He never got the idea of needing virus protection and updates when he had windows. He had very slow dialup like me so constant updates M$ puts out were impossible. So Puppy worked great for his needs. If he had wanted windows, he would have been bugging me to make it work again when virus gummed it up and I dont use windows online cause I dont want to do that for myself, so definitely not wanting to do it for others.


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