# ...need help please...



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

This year I will be getting an LGD for my large Nubian goats and about 30 assorted fowl. It will be a very young female puppy; and the majority of the time I want to keep it in the barn (initially in a small pen in the middle of the largest area of the barn) where most of the goats hang out and the fowl scratch.

I'm at a loss as to what type of pen to use for this; and suspect I will need to build it, as is often the case here. I want the pup to be able to look out all the sides, short enough so its little paws can reach the top and it can look over if it wants, yet sturdy enough so it cannot get out. I'm not sure what size for "one" pup, probably a 3' x 3'...maybe.

I've thought of using wood; but that would be rather heavy when going to store it. (Am thinking of how it might be constructed to fold up to store!) I've thought of using pcv pipe too. I'm not sure what type of wire to use! Utility wire seems inappropriate. Field fencing certainly is! I don't like the 2x4 holed welded wire as it comes apart too easily; and I'm not certain my goats would not try to stand on it just to aggravate me!

Any ideas would be appreciated; and pics of what any of you are using would be real helpful.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Your puppy needs to be exposed to the livestock she needs to guards. This needs to be done prior to sixteen weeks. So, you can start with a fourteen week old puppy. With an LGD I would not get a puppy any younger than twelve weeks as they are slow to mature. She will not bond any better if you get her younger, it has to do with the development of their brain and 16 weeks is the magic cut off. If you are planning on getting another animal species down the road, you may want to get at least one so the puppy learns she is to protect that kind also.

Instead of putting a pen in the middle of the goats, give the puppy her own room. If you don't have stalls, use a corner of the barn to create two of the walls of your pen. You can use what you think will be goat proof for the other two walls. If possible, I would also have a door for the puppy to get outside, unless you want her peeing and pooping in your barn. This will also give her access to fresh air and she'd be able to see the chickens. She doesn't need to be in her pen 24/7. You can put a long leash on her and walk her around your place, teach her a few things like: sit, down, come, ride in car, and whatever you feel would be useful. I would make several trips to your vet and work on having her sit nicely with you in the waiting room, and getting on the weight scale.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

I would just get some pallets and screw them together, you could get away with as little as 2 if you put it in a corner, and leave the front side open. I would put a solid piece of plywood on the top. In the dogs brain that gives them a safe place under, plus the goats can hang out closer, even up on top of the dogs hut.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thank you both for helping me look at various aspects of this. I do want the "puppy" protected while it is getting accustomed to the goats/chickens; and I like the idea of its having its own "bed" that only she can use if she so desires.

I'm wondering how you "barn-break" a puppy so it does its business outside the barn instead of inside where the goats do. (I'm quite accustomed to "house-breaking"
puppies; but have never even tried...nor ever had to...barn-break a dog.) Is this something I need to actually do? I have examined my barn with the idea of this pup/dog having its own spot that permits it access to outside the barn; however, my barn is not constructed in a way for this to be feasible.

I do have two areas (actually 3) that can be subdivided and given to the pup/dog; however, none would have access to outside the barn and none would permit the pup/dog to walk among the goats at a later date (when the pup is old enough and more understanding of how to protect itself from what I want it to guard). I must keep the pups age in mind, protecting it as it learns to protect others. 

This is all new to me. The dogs I've had (some of which did bond with and guard the goats/chickens were NOT housed in the barn. They were taken to the barn and kept among the goats/chickens frequently; but they were house-broke in my trailer. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe I'm making too much of this. As much time as the dog will spend outside my house, coupled with its own tendencies to guard the goats/chickens, may be fine. 

Any pros/cons/constructive criticisms are welcomed.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

You could start out with keeping the puppy outside during the day in a dog pen near the goats, then bringing her inside at night. She only needs to be near the goats, not in their laps. You then have little training sessions where you bring her up to the goat pens, maybe walk through them. Keep her on a leash and have her with you while you attend to your various chores. As long as you have a specific place for potty and you don't give her opportunity to potty in the barn that it will all work out. As she gets bigger you can forego the pen except when she can't be supervised, or when you are gone. You will nix bad behaviors in the bud and she'll grow into her job. I imagine you don't want her to be a housedog, but I don't think a puppy that age should be left alone for long periods of time.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Yes, Maura, that is the conclusion I've come to. I'm thinking, since I will more than likely be picking a pup up around 8 wks of age, I could have her house-trained (plus frequent visits to the barn) by the time she is 12 weeks old. (This gives me time to be sensitive in putting a collar on her and having her not be frightened by a leash.) I do want her well protected and well supervised. This will be my first LGD and, though I've had other dogs that "acted" like LGD in that Apache would lay on a hill watching the goats/chickens browse, charge at any predators, even baby-sit baby goats, I'm going to be more sensitive to what this pup is doing. (I house-broke Apache at a very young age and still she bonded with the goats and slept in the barn with them...never defacated in that barn either.) 

I sure appreciate the help.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Unless you have another dog that will act as an aunt/uncle to the puppy, I strongly suggest you wait until she is older than eight weeks. Keeping her in the litter with mama until at least twelve weeks old will make life easier on you. She will be easier to train and easier to housebreak. This is a very large dog and they take a long time to physically and mentally mature. She will not be housebroken by 12 weeks of age. You may have an understanding by that age, but she will not be housebroken.


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## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

A chain link kennel is a good size for a pup-it offers lots of room to get exercise and some room for a stoop she can climb on, chew toys, and the fencing is not too big nor too small. Wire-tie the fence to the pipe all corners, top, bottom and door, and use a secondary door closure.

Additionally it will grow with the pup, and when the pup gets older it can be moved out into the pasture and a cattle panel can be wired top & bottom for a time-out area (for corrections) and also the door can be sized for a jump box where the dog can remove herself from the herd & have a place to be by herself and eat in peace. IMO well worth the money, you might even find one on freecycle.

I can tell you what I DONT recommend for a pup: goat panels, they are the perfect size for a puppy to try and squeeze out, get stuck, and hang themselves.

HF


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I'm looking forward to this challenge...can hardly wait!


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