# Confused on penicillin doses...



## AuntKitty (Oct 25, 2004)

Hi all:

I've got a doe I have been fighting lungworm with. Her symptoms before were dry cough and after a course of Ivermectin she was fine. After the last big rain she started with a dry cough again. So last Monday I started a new course of Ivermectin and copper bolused her. Now today she has a green snotty nose and a temp of 103.2. The rest of the herd is around 102.5 and the outdoor temp is in the upper 80's today. Lily is eating, drinking, peeing, pooping and acting normally. She is laying in the shade but gets up to come to me as soon as she sees me just like usual. I searched pneumonia on dairygoatinfo.com and the one thread that talked about pneumonia and lungworm said to use penicillin so I went and got some Penicillin G Procaine which is all TSC had. The thread on DGI.com that talked about pneumonia and lungworm said give 5cc per 100 lb IM. I searched just "penicillin dose" and the consensus was 6.6 cc per 100 SQ. So I will use the 6.6cc per 100 dose to be sure I nip this in the bud but where should I give it? Does anyone have any experience with this?

I posted this also on DGI.com but I couldn't tell if anyone is online right now or not. It's not an emergency, but I would like to get Lily started on treatment as soon as I can.

Thanks and hope everyone is having a peaceful Sunday afternoon. You know, now that I think about it, Lily isn't acting normally - she's not yelling at me everytime I walk by the window (Nubian) 

Kitty


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## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

I can't speak to what you've read elsewhere or whether or not Penicillin is appropriate for this use, but if you are talking about Procaine Penicillin G aka Pen G then the dose is 1ml/13# body weight per my vet and recent readings. You give it subcutaneously at this level, twice daily, for 10 days.


There are different doses for long acting type drugs, etc. so please be sure you know what drug you're using and take care to be mindful of the withdrawal periods for milk/meat.


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## HomegrownAcres (Jun 14, 2009)

First, I am not a veterinarian and am only relating my experience. You should not rely on my information as medical advice and should consult a vet.

Penicillin is not a treatment for lungworm. It is an antibiotic used for killing bacteria such as those that contribute to pneumonia. Make sure a goat needs it before you give it penicillin. In my experience a high temperature is an indicator of bacterial infection, as is a mucousy nasal discharge, coughing and lungworm damage. Also, use caution with penicillin as it can kill the goat. Anaphylactic shock is a relatively uncommon reaction to penicillin in goats but it does happen and will kill the goat immediately after the injection. If you are worried, let the vet do it. Pneumonia can be contagious to other goats.

My Penicillin G Procaine bottle says to inject subcutaneously only. That's how I do it.

Subcutaneous injections (under the skin, not into muscle) should be done under the loose skin between the goat's shoulders and neck. Restrain the goat; with one hand feel around until you can pinch the skin easily. This will create a pocket under the pinched skin where you should inject the medicine (longitudinally under the pinched skin).

Use a fairly large needle for penicillin as it is a relatively thick liquid. I use a 16 gauge, 1 inch long needle but an 18 gauge will also work. Since the penicillin will have been refrigerated it will be cold and will cause some discomfort over and above the needle stick. Inject it moderately rapidly to get it over with quickly for the goat. After removing the needle, rub the area until the lump of medicine has gone away. Remember to always use a new needle and clean syringe and don't stick yourself. If you happen to push the needle all the way through and the medicine comes outside the goat's skin (it happens...) don't give another dose for eight hours to prevent overdosing. Be careful to insert the needle parallel to the goat's body and not inward into the muscle. Alternate sides for each injection to reduce bruising.

5 is the recommended dose; I have used up to 10 every eight hours for serious cases where I thought that the goat was going to die without immediate treatment. Treat the goat initially at least twice daily for a week to ten days. Don't stop just because the symptoms disappear.

Remember that the penicillin will kill the beneficial bacteria in the goat's rumen. A day or so after stopping treatment give the goat some ProBios or similar probiotic for a few days to help reestablish the good bacteria; probiotic plain yogurt such as Activia will also work.

Best of luck. 

Brian
Homegrown Acres
HomegrownAcres.com

Added: I can highly recommend Large Animal Clinical Procedures for Veterinary Technicians as a very useful book for learning how to treat your goats. Check on Amazon.


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## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

Yipes, Brian! I use a 20g 1/2" needle with my Pen G!

What size goat are you using "5" on (I presume you me ML)?

Current research is 1ml/13 pounds body weight. I am using a 5ml dose on my 65-pound doe twice daily, subq for 10 days.

Also, the probiotics won't hurt, but the latest information we have is that only the acidophilus in these products normally exists in a goat's rumen so the other stuff doesn't help much.


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## HomegrownAcres (Jun 14, 2009)

MONSTER GOATS!!! 

In the 5th para I said I use 16 gauge needles. The 5 is the ml dose.

Brian


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## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

Well I was going to post what we did for a goat with similar symptoms but then I noticed the OP was in Florida-worm heaven. Safeguard & Ivermec still work fairly well here so I'll just sit back & read others suggestions as mine probably wouldn't work well for that area.

HF


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## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

HomegrownAcres said:


> MONSTER GOATS!!!
> 
> In the 5th para I said I use 16 gauge needles. The 5 is the ml dose.
> 
> Brian


I think we had a miscommunique. I did see your comment that you use the 16ga and was reacting to that, saying I only use the 18ga or 20ga (prefer the 20ga) with my Pen G. The 22ga is too small, I've found.

I did think you were saying the 5 was ml, but you didn't specify what size *goat* (weight), so that is what I was asking about. If the goats are more than 65-75 pounds, that's too little a dose based on current research.


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