# Barn on a budget-pole barn



## Wollett (Jan 21, 2013)

So we can't afford the outright price of a barn or even to finance one this time in our life. Has anyone had any success in buying lumber for the pole barn bits a pieces at a time and if so does anyone have any idea on what would be the items and the sequence to buy things in. I have a general idea what goes into a pole barn but not a clue on where to start. It's something that is needed for our sheep and our growing flock! Thanks Steve


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## Dutchofsc (Feb 23, 2014)

I would also be interested in some information about this. I plan on building a temporary storage enclosure from recycled pallet racks, but would like to build a budget barn in the near future.


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## Cookie2 (Feb 21, 2014)

So by pole barn, you mean that you intend to have a dirt floor? Some people to put in a pad. Our previous pole barn was dirt.

I'd probably pour the footings first. Can't do anything without a foundation, right? Make sure you put the post anchors when you do the pour. Pour them one at a time if that is all you can budget to do.

The walls are a little different. You can obviously buy all the nails or screws (or both) and post bolts ahead of time. However, buy enough lumber to do the side walls and all the bracing in one fell swoop. You can leave the posts and bracing up without sheathing the sides. They wood will age but with proper bracing and cross bracing (which includes a basic cross members that would be the beginning of a roof) the posts shouldn't twist. At this point, you will have what is nothing more than a batting cage. We have those around here all over the place.

Next you'll have to order your roof trusses. If you've got a pole barn plan or are competent to build your trusses yourself, you might save some money. Still, at this point you probably will need help setting them in place. You could probably do three sets of trusses at a time then cover that section with plastic. That will give your flock a bit of shelter but that is all. Plastic is noisy in the wind and rain and they might be more freaked out being inside this shelter than out of it. And one good hail storm and your plastic is history.

Once you have a real roof, you can apply walls, doors, electricity and interior walls (for stalls, etc.

But how about a different direction?

On our property we have three out-buildings - a work shed, a three sided shed and a two sided shed. The two sided shed is really nothing more than a "lean-to". It sits on four corner posts with a slant, metal roof. Imagine a storage shed but with only the back wall and one side wall. The walls face the direct where most of our weather comes from (the windward side). The shed is fairly short - my 6'1" husband has to bend over to enter - but sheep aren't tall. And the two-sided shed isn't large - about 5 or 6 adult sheep would crowd into it in bad weather. It was used basically to keep the rain off their feed but works as a shelter in a pinch. You could build one of these in a weekend (while still getting your other chores done) - although I'd want to pour footings for the corner posts to get the wood up off the ground and make it last longer. (Our corner posts are set in gravel filled holes.) You could also build more and sprinkle them around your property as your flock grows.

Frankly, if the SHTF, we plan on using the two-sided shed as our cooking or washing shelter.


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## Shoestringer (Oct 18, 2013)

Before building anything I would look at building codes for your area. Often much of the information is available online. I have seen a pole building project halted and torn down after all the poles were in. Sometimes you can get by with a "temporary" or "mobile" structure more easily than anything fixed to the ground.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

What size barn are you wanting? If you don't mind telling what's your budget? 
The 6x6 will run about 50 bucks each. 30` trusses are around 250.00 each 
The 2x6 call your local yard for price make sure they are not pressure treated. Galvalume metal is around 1.45 lf 3ft wide you will need 17`4" for each side. 
You can build one bay at a time if you wanted to. one 12` bay will run about 1100. In my area you can buy 30x40 installed for around 4500. Diy kit are around 3500.


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## bigjon (Oct 2, 2013)

working a deal right now for used power poles,gonna play Lincoln logs.


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## Dutchofsc (Feb 23, 2014)

Using old power poles, now that's a great idea. I might have to start looking into getting some of those.


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## Wollett (Jan 21, 2013)

It would be a dirt floor and I believe they call them a monitor style pole barn because I'd like to store hay above the main space. There are a lot of blue prints sets you can buy out there and I know that some hardware(carters) can order trusses at a predetermined length so it seems like it could happen. We have a 20x20 lean-to I build this last year for a lambing shed I just need more barn space for hay and the growing flock. Lambing in January and February was a cold experience this year!


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## Cookie2 (Feb 21, 2014)

Be careful with used power poles. Many of them are coated with toxins that are dangerous to your livestock or any edibles that might get contaminated downstream.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Drill post holes 48 inches in the ground, 4 feet apart. Clean out the loose soil in the bottom of each hole. Drop in a stone larger than a grapefruit, but smaller than a football. Set the posts in each hole and carefully line up. Keep posts from tipping with lumber supports. Pour concrete 2/3 up on the hole. Nail a 2 x 6 treated all around the base, except where the barn doors will be. Nail a 2x12, 16 feet long, near the top of the posts for the roof truss to sit on.

Now you are broke, so you can stop here.

As the weeks go by, nail 2x4, 16 feet long, horizontally, 24 inches apart, all around, except where the barn doors will go. You can add the man door and a couple windows.

If you want a hay mow, you will need lots of 2x10s and 1 inch thick boards, 1x6 and 1x8 for the floor. Less wide and it won't be as strong, wider and the boards cup as they dry.

Do not buy trusses until you have the money for the metal sides and roof, too. Not good to let the trusses weather.

Set the trusses 48 inches apart. Nail 2x4s 24 inches apart as support for the metal roof. 

Just like every construction project. I can build it right. I can build it fast. I can build it cheap. Pick two. You can never get all three.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I understand the loft thing but they are a lot more expensive. Old barns had them but they have gone away because a shed is cheaper and the space can be used a lot better. Hay on the ground and used during the winter can become lambing pen area. Things can be stored and when the weather gets bad, can be moved around for the livestock. I have built small sheds that can be easily added on to. Shed roof, open to the side the wind is not blowing in from and then the other half added as money is available. Sheep shed with 8'-10' eaves works good. I have built with 4"x4" posts 8' apart with a 4"x6" header and 2"x6" rafters 4' apart with 2"x4" nailing strips. Does need to be strong enough for snow load. If you do want the loft barn, you can build the center section and come back and add the leantos later. Floor joists and headers are expensive though....James


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Hay stored on the ground will mold every time.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

Don't know where you are in Oh-we're in NE and needed shed for cows. Carolina carports 18'x20' for about $700, roof only, go with heavier tubing. We put 3/4 treated plywood on bottom inside on N side-3/4 oriented strand board outside on top same side and closed 1/2 of E and W ends. We had about 1200 in it all told. This is the second one we've bought-first one is 12yrs old, only problem we've had is having to reset the anchors periodically and replace some screws in the steel roofing. Those problems are because WE put it up and used the wrong screws for the roof. Anchors they use now are 4' long. They put the second one up (took us 3 days for the first one vs 2 hours for them on the second one.) They're considered temporary so no increase in taxes. We don't have zoning so you have it check to see if it's ok. If you want a lifetime building I wouldn't do it but for a shelter in a hurry cheap they've worked well for us.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

Haypoint-saw your barn in another thread-it is incredible! If I was half my age that is what I'd want!


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

haypoint said:


> Hay stored on the ground will mold every time.


 

A tarp and pallets will keep the hay off the ground. I live in Oregon and we get lots of rain and have huge barns just for housing hay and straw for export. After a few years there is some chaff on the ground but we never lose the bottom bales to mold. Bales are stacked on their side by the bale wagons, either small squares or 3'x3' big squares. The barns are built on a built up dirt pad 12" high, the barns have eaves troughs and downspouts. These barns are up to 100'x600'. My brother bales, stores and delivers a million tons a year to the ports on the Columbia river after compression and put in containers....James


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

Sunken poles or dug footers vs. set poles on concrete pad... definitely check your pricing on this one. Your frost depth and side wall height may result in some seriously long posts that are more expensive to purchase and transport than getting a concrete pumper to come pour down a pad. 

Same goes with the costs of post & beam vs. stick framing. If your loads or spans start requiring extra posts or big/long beams or large trusses, purchase and transportation costs may eliminate any cost savings over conventional stick framing. Cost it out, don't assume.

I second the recommendation to build modular, adding on a full 8-12' bay as you go. You can purchase/salvage hardware and other materials ahead of time as long as you have a weather-proof place to store it... resist the urge to horde any lumber/timber unless you're really close to building and/or it's safe from weather and pests!

Surveying, earthworks and concrete can be done piece meal as you can afford it; but once you're working with lumber the faster you can get your poles/walls, bracing and roof done the better. Covering your framing with tarps is really only short-term solution couple of days... maybe hold you over until next weekend... otherwise, you're risking weather damage to your framing and any tools and materials you've stored in the space between work sessions. 8' bays work great because that's the most common sheet size... get the rafters/purlins/trusses up and slap on some cheap OSB before your tarp it if you can't do the full decking & roofing, or you'll be adding another bay later in the season. Tarps can and will rip, leak and blow away... guaranteed!


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## Wollett (Jan 21, 2013)

Could you set poles and then roof it and have some time in between to cover the side without any serous damage?


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## Shoestringer (Oct 18, 2013)

Yes, with bracing in place you could overwinter a pole barn without walls.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Wollett said:


> Could you set poles and then roof it and have some time in between to cover the side without any serous damage?


In general, posts set in concrete, 4 feet deep, cross braced, could have the roof trusses and metal roof put up without sides. But the roof trusses and metal roof are major expenses, siding not so much. 

A 4:12 pitch roof truss, designed for placement 48 inches apart, 24 to 32 feet long, set on horizontal 2x12 fastened to the tallest poles you can afford, perhaps 20 to 24 feet long, spaced 8 feet apart, would make a good start. Then, you can add a "shed" to either side, later on, when you can afford it. Build the barn lower and you won't be able to add a shed, the roof on the shed would be too low.


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## Wollett (Jan 21, 2013)

Goal is to have something to move the sheep to after I get them out of the lambing pens which is a lambing shed, so a 24 x 30 or 40' is the goal with lean-too built on the side or sides.


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## biggkidd (Aug 16, 2012)

You might want to look at one of these http://www.carportsandmore.com/carport-garage-builder.html

I would check around for the best $$$ but for the $ hard to beat. Best part you can add the floor later. Often times no permit needed.

Larry


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## kycrawler (Sep 18, 2011)

Here is what built


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## Dutchofsc (Feb 23, 2014)

That looks great. Do you have any other pictures? Your design would suit my needs perfectly. Please share more pictures and info as the project goes along. Great job.


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

Footers, posts, bracing, rafters/trusses, and roof (decking or metal) will get you through the winter. You can add girts, siding, more bays, and full roofing later.

Price out your materials before you finalize a design. You may find it is less expensive to deck & shingle a roof than to go with metal on open purlins (esp. if you want to add insulation later. Also, you may find it's slightly more difficult to build modular and incrementally add bays when using metal roofing depending on the width of the panels you can source locally.

If you absolutely can't afford or transport super tall posts for a high side wall on the shed side, you can platform frame a partial 2nd floor with a pony wall to extend the height. Or, start the shed roof partially up the main roof so you still have enough height under the shed eave.


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## kycrawler (Sep 18, 2011)

Here are a few more pics of framing detail if money is short you can build half of this building at a time


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## kycrawler (Sep 18, 2011)

Use treated posts put them at least 3 foot in the ground build it all with treated lumber and you could buy it one board at a time treated lumber is often the same price as non treated or very close use the correct nails for treated lumber normal nails rust away due to the new treatment. For a livestock barn I would only use a metal roof easy to put down and will outlast you the barn I posted pics of is 32+40 with a 16 ft lean to I sawed all the lumber but the poles and had about 3500 in metal poles and screws and nails I did concrete under the posts


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## kycrawler (Sep 18, 2011)

Here are a few more pics of framing detail if money is short you can build half of this building at a time


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## Dutchofsc (Feb 23, 2014)

That's great. Did you buy plans for the barn or come up with it yourself? I may end up copying your work, it looks great and would suit me perfectly. I found your other thread also, following your progress there. 
I'm a first year land owner, as a young guy (28) I have lots to learn. I hope to be out of the city and living on my land within five years.


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## Steve in PA (Nov 25, 2011)

kycrawler said:


> Here are a few more pics of framing detail if money is short you can build half of this building at a time


I don't see the pics. Are they there?


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## bigjon (Oct 2, 2013)

ky crawler-in the 1 pic is the gray tractor ford or ferguson?


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## Wollett (Jan 21, 2013)

kycrawler said:


> Here are a few more pics of framing detail if money is short you can build half of this building at a time



What are the dimensions for the barn that is something that I'm leaning towards for sheep and hay! Looks great!!


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Wollett said:


> What are the dimensions for the barn that is something that I'm leaning towards for sheep and hay! Looks great!!


I doubt 2x8 rafters, 2 feet on centers, on a 2:12 pitch (maybe 3:12) over a wide 14-16 foot span, with an Ohio snow load, would survive for long.

I'm not being critical of that barn or the lovely photos. Just doubt its suitability where there is a snow load to consider.


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

haypoint said:


> I doubt 2x8 rafters, 2 feet on centers, on a 2:12 pitch (maybe 3:12) over a wide 14-16 foot span, with an Ohio snow load, would survive for long.
> 
> I'm not being critical of that barn or the lovely photos. Just doubt its suitability where there is a snow load to consider.


I agree, the design looks good, but the lumber may not be up to spec.

According the Forestry Service, the IBC 2003 lists average Ohio snow loads at 20-25 psf. For roofs under 4/12, IBC recommends using the higher snow load since the low pitch does not shed snow as easily. 

According to the AWC, at 25 psf snow & 10 psf dead and 24" oc, the max horizontal span of a #2 SPF 2x8 sloped rafter is 12'7", #2 Hem-Fir is 12'3, regardless of pitch. even using #1 or structural select won't get a 2x8 to span 16'; but a #2 SPF 2x10 would span it. (SPF & Hem-Fir being the most common lumber species sold at home improvement stores)

2x4 purlins 24" oc across the rafters have load modifier factor of 1.05 on flat and 1.15 on edge, but you must increase the rafter dead load to 15 psf with the additional lumber, so they have a net zero effect. You'd need 2x6 purlins 24" oc on edge to start seeing a net positive effect on roof loading. Purlins improve the rigidity of the roof and help with wind loading (side), but don't add quite as much benefit to snow (down) loading.


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## Wollett (Jan 21, 2013)

We have had quite a snow this year at that!


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

PlicketyCat said:


> I agree, the design looks good, but the lumber may not be up to spec.
> 
> According the Forestry Service, the IBC 2003 lists average Ohio snow loads at 20-25 psf. For roofs under 4/12, IBC recommends using the higher snow load since the low pitch does not shed snow as easily.
> 
> ...


 I think a truss made of 2x4s and 2x6 , spaced 4 feet apart with a 5 12 pitch would be cheaper than 2x10 rafters.


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

Yup - that's why it pays to have a steeper pitch and slightly beefier framing when building anywhere that gets regular snow. The cost of a little over-engineering for avg loads is worth not having to rebuild the entire thing when the whole thing collapses the year you get above average snowfall. Unless you feel like going out and shoveling off your roof mid-winter 

The code recommendations are for averages and are the minimum you can get away with safely. I normally add at least 10 psf extra to my live loads and give myself at least 12" span buffers just to help make sure the storm of the century won't take our buildings down.


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

haypoint said:


> I think a truss made of 2x4s and 2x6 , spaced 4 feet apart with a 5 12 pitch would be cheaper than 2x10 rafters.


They could be, depends on the design & availability. You'd have to cost both options out, making sure you're comparing apples-to-apples with regards to load, structural integrity and transport/delivery.


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## kycrawler (Sep 18, 2011)

The barn I built is in southwest missouri not much snow rafters are oak true 2x8 and heavy as hell 3/12 pitch roof . here in Indiana I would have gone about 5/12 pitch snow doesn't hang around long on these slick metal roof


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

You should be able to buy roof trusses at $50 each for a 26 foot wide barn. I'd think they would be stronger than 2x8 rafters alone and keep the walls from spreading.


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## Greybush (Mar 30, 2014)

kycrawler said:


> The barn I built is in southwest missouri not much snow rafters are oak true 2x8 and heavy as hell 3/12 pitch roof . here in Indiana I would have gone about 5/12 pitch snow doesn't hang around long on these slick metal roof


Hey kycrawler i was wondering if you could do a materials list you used for your pole barn I'm looking to build one like wise and that design would suit me perfect


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