# chainsaw starter cord recoil



## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

Can anybody explain to me why the recoil of the starter cord can be quite aggressive sometimes. It's a Stihl 038 and it kind of bugs me when it does this. Is it normal and aside from not pulling the cord to far is there any other way to prevent it happening?


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

primal1 said:


> Can anybody explain to me why the recoil of the starter cord can be quite aggressive sometimes. It's a Stihl 038 and it kind of bugs me when it does this. Is it normal and aside from not pulling the cord to far is there any other way to prevent it happening?


What do you mean "aggressive"? Harder to pull or snaps back harder?


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Sounds like the spring may be overly dirty or rusty and it's binding on itself and not letting the full spring be used.


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## frankva (May 21, 2009)

Oddball- My Husky can sputter a couple coughs and release the compression button. But if it is a light cough, the button does not pop back out all the way, and looks pushed in...

Don't know if yours has one but thought I would throw that out there.


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## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

snaps back hard, i've even read some people hurting themselves because of it.
Mine does have a compression switch and I push it after every pull, just in case it only it half closes.



Bret4207 said:


> What do you mean "aggressive"? Harder to pull or snaps back harder?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> snaps back hard,


Don't let go of it.
Ease it back in


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## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

I don't let go at all but a few times it literally rips out of my hand, thats when the injuries i have read about occur.. One guy said it pulled out of his hand so hard that his fingers were sore for days after. I have felt what he was talking about but i didn't get injured.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Is it hitting the end of the cord? Sounds like the cord could be too short?


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## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

I doubt it because make a conscious effort not to pull more than i need to at about maybe 2 feet.. but i will verify tomorrow how long the cord really is just to be sure.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

What is happening is the engine is firing just before the piston gets to TDC then trying to spin the engine backwards... Could be caused by a few things... could be the combustion chamber has a lot of built up carbon in it. Also check your muffler and exhaust port for excessive carbon buildup... If it still has the spark arrestor screen in it, remove it and burn it off and brush with a wire brush and reinstall.... Could be the flywheel has slipped too, but's not very common to happen on a 038... I've also seen bad plugs cause this...


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## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

the guy i got it from maintained it very well but it did sit for 2 years because he no longer has the strength to start it(he's 73).
What does TDC mean? I am not too good with small engines but i can check the things you mention. It's a start to tracking down the problem though so I am happy about that because once this machine is started it's dreamy
Thanks!


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Top dead center... Yep... great saws... I sold them, rented them and serviced them for years...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I don't let go at all but a few times it literally rips out of my hand


That's a *misfiring* problem, as simi said above


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

I think Simi has the probable answer to your issue.


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## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

Ok, when i have a bit of extra cash i'll take it in and ask them to check it, a good once over by a professional couldn't hurt and i am sure they will do a more thorough job than i will.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I always say... you want something done right.... 

I've seen way too many hacks in small engine shops... fired more than my share of them... I'd look and see if you got a Stihl dealer....


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Not to change the subject, but the same situation use to happen with the hand starters for Model T's, Model A's and some old tractors. If you didn't let go of the hand crank after you gave it a good twist, it could some times kickback and break a person's arm.


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## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

I checked the cord length and it is close to 3 feet, and the spark plug looked clean.. no sign of a screen to clean so thats as far as i'm going lol.. 

Cabin Fever, I'd never have driven if i had to go though that stress every time LOL


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I used to get brand new champion plugs out of the box that were bad... Clean doesn't always mean it's good... Plugs are cheap when it comes to two cycle...


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

Sounds like true backfire and kickback. Which is what Cabin Fever described. It's not a problem with the starter mechanism, it's the engine firing and kicking over, backwards. It'll rip that starter handle right out of your hand, violently.

Best thing to do is to pull the rope *very* strongly, and *very* quickly, to best ensure when the spark ignites the mixture, it throws the engine in the right direction. 

On the good side, this means the saw is actually very willing to start.


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## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

3-4 pulls on choke and 1-2 to start, yes it seems eager to go.. though since burning off the old gas the saw was full with i got fresh gas the other day and the thing won't start.. i haven't had time to really go at it but i plan to soon because I was just given a felled spruce to mill for my soon to be balcony roof.
14' length i will mill for the main beam and a 9' length i can mill to 6 posts.. thats why i wanted to get this starting issue fixed... I hope the Stihl dealer can repair it!

foxtrapper, If thats the case i'll think twice about keeping it as i have 2 other Stihls at work that are much easier to deal with and though maybe not as powerful get the job done just the same.
As a self employed worker I can't knowingly keep working with a tool that could at some point cause me an injury just starting it.. i know i am probably over thinking it but I know when ever I start this machine it preys on my mind.


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

There's nothing wrong with deciding a saw isn't right for you. If I had other saws that did the job just as well, and were easier to live with, the difficult one would be gotten rid of.


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## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

I am still hoping the Stihl guys can fix it but if not, yes for sure i will look for a smaller one.
I love the ones at work and i know my boss is ok with me borrowing, i just don't like to.. y'all know how that can go...


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

Well, retarding the spark will reduce the incidence of kickback, but it makes the saw run weaker and hotter. So beware of that fix. Assuming the timing is already correct.


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## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

AHHH!! So this could be why he had the compression switch installed.. this saw didn't have one originally, i have started it once without using the switch but i sure wouldn't want to make a habit of it lol.
Are there any indicators i could be aware of if the timing is out? The machine runs great and idles perfectly when i put it down, no strange sounds...


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

primal1 said:


> Are there any indicators i could be aware of if the timing is out?


Hard to pull? Kicks like a mule? Really, without the timing light to see it when running, or the positioning specs, you can't guess timing worth a shucks.

Don't know this particular saw, but some have very hyper engines in stock form. Gives them great power for their weight and size. Makes them quite a handfull to start.

Since it seems you got this saw used, and it came with an add-on compression release, the saw may well be modified. As in higher compression piston, intake/exhaust porting, altered timing, etc. All of which can give it quite a bit more power than stock. But will also make it harder to start.


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## frankva (May 21, 2009)

Which would make it even more desirable after it is tinkered up by a dealer.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

No way to set timing on an 038... The coil is a solid nonadjustable mount and the flywheel is set with a key.. Well.. the coil can be moved closer or further from the flywheel, but not side to side... The only way it could be off is if the flywheel key has sheared.


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## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

I happened to drive by the place where this machine was always serviced(Echo dealer), the guy remembers and knows the machine well.. mentioned it being an electronic timing but suggested a $15 'fix' and i took him up on the offer, he did something like moving the coil.. said it wasn't cure by any means but should make the kickback less frequent... i'll see when i have a chance to try it.
He did say i could probably get between 2-300 for it if i really wanted to sell, so at least i have an option and maybe even a trade on some used ones he has.. lots of 029's that look in good shape.
I'll let you all know if it made a difference


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

He could have moved the coil away from the flywheel and that may help, but if he moved it side to side, then he had to enlarge the holes on the coil.. .Not something I would recommend.. If the coil is bad, it could cause this problem too.

I was factory trained and certified by Stihl as a warranty repair service center... I had to take classes every year to maintain that designation... I know this saw very well... I can't remember ever replacing a coil on one of their saws... except one and it got loose and hit the flywheel... Had to replace the flywheel at the same time.


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

Simi,

An offset key moves the flywheel, altering the timing. A commonly stocked item.

The pickup is easily offset as well be either mounting hole alteration, or the use of a smaller shanked screw. Some have enough slop in the pickup body to give several degrees alteration with no modification.


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## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

Next winter i am taking a small engine repair course so i have a better understanding.. an adult ed school near me offers a briggs and straton certification program, i think it will help a lot!

Sorry i can't tell you exactly what he did, although, he is the go to guy for just about everybody around here and sure seemed to know what he was talking about.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Stihl never made or used an offset key for this saw... If there is a timing issue, it's either a bad coil, or a very carboned up chamber, bad plug, or sheered key... or lose coil, or something along these lines...

If you are moving the coil or flywheel around, you are treating a symptom and not fixing the actual problem...


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## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

does this make sense to you.. he said that for this model the crank is actually too small for the motor..
EDIT: i think thats what he said!


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Um.. yeah.. OK.. .It's a well proven saw.. if the crank was too small, then you'd have a lot of broken cranks...


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

primal1 said:


> does this make sense to you.. he said that for this model the crank is actually too small for the motor..


Don't know exactly what he's saying. But that's neither here nor there.



simi-steading said:


> If there is a timing issue, it's either a bad coil, or a very carboned up chamber, bad plug, or sheered key... or lose coil, or something along these lines...


Neither a bad coil nor a bad plug change ignition timing. They can affect the quality of the spark, and the ability to produce a spark at all, but not when the spark takes place. Timing is created by the relationship of the flywheel magnets to the armature of the magneto, nothing more. You alter the timing by either moving the magneto armature laterally, or offsetting the flywheel around the crankshaft with an offset key.



simi-steading said:


> If you are moving the coil or flywheel around, you are treating a symptom and not fixing the actual problem...


If the problem is timing, this is how you fix it. You may not like it, as a by the factory book only type, but adjusting ignition timing is quite a valid fix and tuning tool. Especially in the case of a saw that may well be modified beyond stock.


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