# I'm confused - vaccination = fewer cases = no masks?



## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

I have to be missing something - 

C19 vaccine IS intended to reduce severity of symptoms. It does NOT make you immune, it does NOT make it so you can not spread C19, if you have it.

Gov Dewine says: (underlines are mine)
_"When Ohio gets down to 50 cases per 100,000 people for two weeks, all health orders will be revoked, the governor said. ........

"Our path back is by each of us getting vaccinated when we can, and by each of us wearing masks in public,” DeWine said. “While no one will be forced to take the vaccine, the more of us who are vaccinated, the more complete our victory, and the more confidently we can put this behind us."_

What does getting the vaccine have to do with reducing the # of cases? I understand the vaccine is likely to reduce the # of hospitalizations and # of deaths, but # of cases? Isn't it more likely that people vaccinated could get such a light case they don't even know they have it and are spreading it without knowing?

I'm confused.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Less viral load which is possible with the vaccines equates to less spreading of the virus.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Or just more manipulating.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

mzgarden said:


> What does getting the vaccine have to do with reducing the # of cases? I understand the vaccine is likely to reduce the # of hospitalizations and # of deaths, but # of cases? Isn't it more likely that people vaccinated could get such a light case they don't even know they have it and are spreading it without knowing?
> 
> I'm confused.


The fact is that they simply don't know the answer to that yet, but data is being gathered as we speak. They can't say for sure that you won't still get a mild case of the virus if you're vaccinated, and perhaps become a carrier. We should have some evidence before long. In the meantime they are asking that vaccinated people still maintain precautions.

I suspect we'll find that infections will be reduced in vaccinated persons. We'll see.


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## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

Per the CDC, exposure (viral load) results within 6ft of a positive person who is exhibiting symptoms, for 15 minutes or more. Basically, the longer you are within 6ft of a symptomatic positive person, the higher the viral load. The vaccine reduces the severity of symptoms, it doesn't prevent them and it doesn't keep anyone from transmitting or contracting covid if they are truly exposed, per definition. The vaccine is no more effective than the influenza vaccine. These vaccines have a 50% or less chance of being effective at all anyway. If people choose to get this vaccine, it's their choice and if they don't, it's still their choice, no harm, no foul....but it won't dictate whether or not you contract any virus. I've received 2 influenza vaccines in my entire life. Both times, I ended up contracting influenza anyway and the symptoms were not less severe...103 temp, congestion, body pains, out of work for 10 days. (Oddly enough, I've never contracted influenza when I didn't receive a vaccine and I've worked in long-term care for 25 years.) Whether or not people do or don't get this vaccine, it's time to move on with living. Wear a mask if you choose, wash your hands, stay home if you're ill...but let's please stop existing and start living again, as a whole.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

PaLady said:


> The vaccine reduces the severity of symptoms, it doesn't prevent them and it doesn't keep anyone from transmitting or contracting covid if they are truly exposed,


Fauci was asked that question a few days ago but said that they were still not sure.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It takes a while to make up science.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Guess that means this is the actual testing phase of the vaccine.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

po boy said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> It takes a while to make up science.


Part of being a scientist is accepting that there isn't enough known about certain things. I don't have a problem with that. But it would be a mistake to assume that we should ignore scientific advice because they admit that they don't everything.

But accusing the scientific community of fraud is uncalled for.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Guess that means this is the actual testing phase of the vaccine.


The tests that generated the 95% effectiveness didn't happen to focus on questions of prevention of infection. It focused on the development of serious symptoms.

But it would be a mistake to assume that infection isn't prevented. We simply don't know.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> The tests that generated the 95% effectiveness didn't happen to focus on questions of prevention of infection. It focused on the development of serious symptoms.
> 
> But it would be a mistake to assume that infection isn't prevented. We simply don't know.


If the tests proved anything, we would know, right? So now we are in the test phase. Last I heard people got paid for being in drug tests.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

The care homes in my province have all been vaccinated and they are not getting any more cases in them.
Perhaps the residents are still getting it and showing no symptoms I don't know, what I know is the vaccine is saving heaps of lives.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> If the tests proved anything, we would know, right? So now we are in the test phase. Last I heard people got paid for being in drug tests.


Let's not play word games.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Let's not play word games.


What game, simply stating an opinion.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Nevada said:


> But *accusing* the scientific community of fraud is uncalled for.


Coming from you that is hilarious!


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

po boy said:


> Coming from you that is hilarious!


I know that some scientists sell their integrity for monetary and political gain. But they're in a minority.

But scientists aren't unique in that way. Some accountants have been convicted of embezzlement, but we still trust accountants.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Part of being a scientist is accepting that there isn't enough known about certain things. I don't have a problem with that. But it would be a mistake to assume that we should ignore scientific advice because they admit that they don't everything.
> 
> But accusing the scientific community of fraud is uncalled for.


TRANSLATION:


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Let's not play word games.


So stop!


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The covid 19 cold virus poses virtually no risk to people who have bodies capable of basic immune system function. So only those who are unnaturally old or grotesquely obese are at much risk. This is what the numbers say and what science says. Also common sense, but we can't all be lucky enough to have that. So it stands to reason if we vaccinate the geezers and the fatties, the rest of us can go on about our business, not that we haven't been anyway, but we won't have to pretend to wear a mask in certain places. The vaccine is exactly like the masks, limited effectiveness, mainly a placebo.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

PaLady said:


> *Per the CDC, exposure (viral load) results within 6ft of a positive person who is exhibiting symptoms, for 15 minutes or more. Basically, the longer you are within 6ft of a symptomatic positive person, the higher the viral load.* The vaccine reduces the severity of symptoms, it doesn't prevent them and it doesn't keep anyone from transmitting or contracting covid if they are truly exposed, per definition. The vaccine is no more effective than the influenza vaccine. These vaccines have a 50% or less chance of being effective at all anyway. If people choose to get this vaccine, it's their choice and if they don't, it's still their choice, no harm, no foul....but it won't dictate whether or not you contract any virus. I've received 2 influenza vaccines in my entire life. Both times, I ended up contracting influenza anyway and the symptoms were not less severe...103 temp, congestion, body pains, out of work for 10 days. (Oddly enough, I've never contracted influenza when I didn't receive a vaccine and I've worked in long-term care for 25 years.) Whether or not people do or don't get this vaccine, it's time to move on with living. Wear a mask if you choose, wash your hands, stay home if you're ill...but let's please stop existing and start living again, as a whole.


That's one of the CDC's stats that never made any sense to me. If it takes 15 minutes within 6 feet of an infected person to get a viral load, what are the odds of getting a viral load in 5 seconds passing someone in a Walmart aisle? Have to be near zero.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yes, people get paid for being the the medical/drug testing programs.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

poppy said:


> That's one of the CDC's stats that never made any sense to me. If it takes 15 minutes within 6 feet of an infected person to get a viral load, what are the odds of getting a viral load in 5 seconds passing someone in a Walmart aisle? Have to be near zero.


...if passing someone, for 5 seconds, in a Walmart equals 1/3 of a viral load, what do you get from 5 seconds passing someone in a Peterson’s Shop Smart, or Milly’s Dress Bonanza. 

There’s good Covid, and there’s bad Covid.
There is no just Covid.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> ...if passing someone, for 5 seconds, in a Walmart equals 1/3 of a viral load, what do you get from 5 seconds passing someone in a Peterson’s Shop Smart, or Milly’s Dress Bonanza.
> 
> There’s good Covid, and there’s bad Covid.
> There is no just Covid.


It's science.......supposedly.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

poppy said:


> That's one of the CDC's stats that never made any sense to me. If it takes 15 minutes within 6 feet of an infected person to get a viral load, what are the odds of getting a viral load in 5 seconds passing someone in a Walmart aisle? Have to be near zero.


That makes sense. Though what are the odds of encountering only one person at a Walmart


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

poppy said:


> That's one of the CDC's stats that never made any sense to me. If it takes 15 minutes within 6 feet of an infected person to get a viral load, what are the odds of getting a viral load in 5 seconds passing someone in a Walmart aisle? Have to be near zero.


The problem is, they have NO datato base their recommendations on...They just sat around a table discussing it and decided "Yea, that sounds about right."...Bureaucrats must DO something whether it's right or wrong, or we will decide we don't need them.

Studies consistently show there are only two things that increase your risk CoV infection [1} living with an infected person, and [2] frequenting restaurants/bars...Not masks, not handwashing, not social distancing, not glove wearing, not shopping, not working etc etc

Re- CoV vac and immunity-- Do you have proof that ghosts exist?...Do you have proof that ghosts don't exist?...Absence of proof is not proof of absence.....Most vaccines do give immunity and prevent spread of the bug. It's the rare one that does not, so why are we so willing to think this one is different?

OTOH-- note that infection/hosp/death rates are way down "naturally." Had the FDA not acted with a political motive and released the vac in Oct when it was ready, many lives may have been saved...Now it looks like we don't even need the vac.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

Nevada said:


> Part of being a scientist is accepting that there isn't enough known about certain things. I don't have a problem with that. But it would be a mistake to assume that we should ignore scientific advice because they admit that they don't everything.
> 
> But accusing the scientific community of fraud is uncalled for.


Like global warming/cooling/climate change, green energy, raw milk, ddt, spotted owls and tiny fish that are used to destroy entire economic systems.

Man, that would be crazy.


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## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Fauci was asked that question a few days ago but said that they were still not sure.


I have 23 residents and 15 staff that proved that the vaccine didn't prevent covid…fauci is a fool.


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## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

poppy said:


> That's one of the CDC's stats that never made any sense to me. If it takes 15 minutes within 6 feet of an infected person to get a viral load, what are the odds of getting a viral load in 5 seconds passing someone in a Walmart aisle? Have to be near zero.


Your risk is zero. This has never been about safety. A virus was politicized in an election year for a purpose...control. If it was about safety, stores would require face masks not "face coverings." Handkercheifs, shields without masks accompanying them, gaitors, scarves...all useless. During our COVID outbreak at my facility, they switched us immediately from surgical masks to N95s and a face sheild...so even the surgical mask is worthless, as it's open on the sides. Yes there isn't just one person in Walmart but how many people remain stagnant and within 6 ft of anyone in stores? If there are folks that do that, it blows my mind because I hate being in the vicinity of people in public places...even people I know. I prefer my little bubble at home. That being said, I wear only a faceshield in any store, without a mask underneath...completely useless but at least I can breath. I've lived in a mask and shield for over a year, I'm tired of not being about to breathe. I've also never tested positive after being required to test weekly for the last year.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

@PaLady I am tired of not being able to breath too. I swear for some people the inability to breathe properly has led to brain cell loss which leads to more fear and following which leads to more mask wearing (driving in a car alone) which leads to more brain cell loss, which leads to more fear which leads to.... well you get what I mean...


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## bamabear44 (Jan 30, 2018)

My grand daughter made me an appt . for April 1st, to have this, but I just canceled it, cannot let her know, I just don't feel safe getting this injected into my body... lots of negative stuff about and I f it...does not make you safe not to catch it , what the heck???? I just dont know...


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## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> @PaLady I am tired of not being able to breath too. I swear for some people the inability to breathe properly has led to brain cell loss which leads to more fear and following which leads to more mask wearing (driving in a car alone) which leads to more brain cell loss, which leads to more fear which leads to.... well you get what I mean...


I see people wearing in a mask, alone, and my first thought is, "And these people are allowed to vote."... seriously, no common sense anymore.


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## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

fireweed farm said:


> The care homes in my province have all been vaccinated and they are not getting any more cases in them.
> Perhaps the residents are still getting it and showing no symptoms I don't know, what I know is the vaccine is saving heaps of lives.


Our facility went covid-free until the residents and half the staff were vaccinated. Then we had an outbreak...coincidentally, every single person, staff and resident, who received the vaccines, tested positive. Those of us who declined the vaccine, have continued to test negative throughout.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

PaLady said:


> Our facility went covid-free until the residents and half the staff were vaccinated. Then we had an outbreak...coincidentally, every single person, staff and resident, who received the vaccines, tested positive. Those of us who declined the vaccine, have continued to test negative throughout.


I'm skeptical about that.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I'm skeptical about that.


Lol.
I literally just spit my drink out.

@PaLady , change your avatar pic to Wolf Blitzer.
He’ll take it back before you can say “Breaking News”.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Lol.
> I literally just spit my drink out.
> 
> @PaLady , change your avatar pic to Wolf Blitzer.
> He’ll take it back before you can say “Breaking News”.


She's been trying to discredit covid vaccines since they were developed. If this story was on the level she would have brought it up a long time ago.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> She's been trying to discredit covid vaccines since they were developed. If this story was on the level she would have brought it up a long time ago.





Nevada said:


> She's been trying to discredit covid vaccines since they were developed. If this story was on the level she would have brought it up a long time ago.


So wrong about so much so often!
Waiting for those returns. You can pm them to me!


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

PaLady said:


> Our facility went covid-free until the residents and half the staff were vaccinated. Then we had an outbreak...coincidentally, every single person, staff and resident, who received the vaccines, tested positive. Those of us who declined the vaccine, have continued to test negative throughout.


What test did they do-- swab for virus or blood test for antibodies? The blood test is supposed to turn positive after the vax.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

Getting more confused, not less confused. (bold font is mine, green is my confusion)

*Herd immunity against the coronavirus* could be reached in the United States by the end of summer *through vaccines alone* *(huh???)* and potentially even sooner when natural immunity is added in, according to a CNN analysis.

Shots are currently being given at a pace of about 2 million doses a day, reports the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, meaning that 70% of the population could be fully vaccinated by the end of July, with 85% having their full vaccinations by mid-September, when the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is factored in. 

At this point, the thresholds for herd immunity, which describes the point when enough people are *protected against a disease so that it can't spread*, are just estimates. However, health experts agree that herd immunity happens when between 70% and 85% of a population is *protected*, a figure with which Dr. Anthony Fauci, chief medical adviser to President Joe Biden, agrees. 

Meanwhile, Biden said this week that the United States will have *enough vaccines to* *protect* all adults in the country by the end of May. 

This is getting worse for me, not better. If the vaccine makes your symptoms less severe, then what is this 'protected' business and 'can't spread' business. I understand herd immunity but not understanding why they are saying the vaccine helps - thought they didn't know? I'm so confused.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

mzgarden said:


> why they are saying the vaccine helps - thought they didn't know? I'm so confused.


They say they don't "know" in the sense that they don't have the data to prove it. (they're covering their buttts)..There's a pretty good chance that there's no such thing as ghosts, but we have no data to prove that either...As I said earlier, almost all other vacs give good immunity. Why should this one be different? 

Fauci once again demonstrates that he hasn't got a clue-- Herd immunity is achieved when the infection/immunity rate in the population is 1- (1/Ro)Remember everyone was talking about Ro a while back?...

Ro is the number of people who get infected by each guy who has the bug. Sounds simple, but the trick is to figure out what Ro really is. For this bug, with so many asymptomatic carriers, it might be high, but the new infection rate only seems to be consistently around 10% each week, so Ro might be as low as 1.1..... Plug that into the formula and herd immunity would be achieved with an infection rate of 10%...We're there now.

CoV WILL NEVER GO AWAY...Small pox is the only virus ever eradicated and that took a world wide effort and 30 yrs to accomplish (and a bug that wasn't terribly virulent.)...We might just be stuck with an endemic rate of 10% for this one.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Nevada said:


> She's been trying to discredit covid vaccines since they were developed. If this story was on the level she would have brought it up a long time ago.


She did, it was posted in another thread, about a month ago IIRC.

To answer the original question;

Currently, at least here, you have to have symptoms in order to get scheduled for a covid test (or getting ready for a medical proceedure or a student at one of the schools which requires frequent testing). If you have no symptoms you will not be tested. The vaccine keeps you from having symptoms. No symptoms = no test. Simple as that.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> She did, it was posted in another thread, about a month ago IIRC.
> 
> To answer the original question;
> 
> Currently, at least here, you have to have symptoms in order to get scheduled for a covid test (or getting ready for a medical proceedure or a student at one of the schools which requires frequent testing). If you have no symptoms you will not be tested. The vaccine keeps you from having symptoms. No symptoms = no test. Simple as that.


Interestingly, the positivity rate in Nevada is falling as the vaccine rollout covers more people. If the vaccine causes positive tests then wouldn't we expect the positivity rate to increase as more people get vaccinated?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Thought it depended on the type of test and how the test was ran.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

The vaccines from Moderna and Pfizer are two-dose vaccines, meaning you’ll need a second booster shot a few weeks after the first to bring your protection up to a reliable level. The whole process typically takes about 28 days and is complete soon after you get the second shot, according to Ogbuagu, who is involved with a Pfizer vaccine trial. So you should be fully protected from COVID-19 within about a month.









How Long It Takes For The Coronavirus Vaccine To Work


Are the COVID-19 shots effective right after you get them? Here's the timeline you can expect and other important info to know.




www.huffpost.com


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## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

doc- said:


> What test did they do-- swab for virus or blood test for antibodies? The blood test is supposed to turn positive after the vax.


We did nasopharyngeal swabs.


Nevada said:


> She's been trying to discredit covid vaccines since they were developed. If this story was on the level she would have brought it up a long time ago.


You're absolutely incorrect. I have not tried to discredit any vaccine and if that's what you've taken from my responses, that's your issue. I'm not responsible for your perception. If anyone wants to take a vaccine, that's their choice and I don't have an opinion of that, one way or another. I have, however, have stated that it's not my decision, which continues to be my right. I also said I've watched my residents and fellow staff members take a vaccine as a "cure" for a virus, which is not what this vaccine is supposed to do. Like influenza, it alleviates the symptoms; even the CDC states this is not a cure for coronavirus. Take any vaccine you want but please don't make an assumption about what I think....


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## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

doc- said:


> What test did they do-- swab for virus or blood test for antibodies? The blood test is supposed to turn positive after the vax.


According to the CDC, the vaccine isn't live and therefore, shouldn't cause anyone to test positive after receiving it. We did nasopharyngeal swabs. The same test we've been doing for a year. We don't do blood testing at this level. We're actually lucky if the dementia patients allow themselves to be swabbed most days.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

PaLady said:


> I've watched my residents and fellow staff members take a vaccine as a "cure" for a virus, which is not what this vaccine is supposed to do. Like influenza, it alleviates the symptoms; even the CDC states this is not a cure for coronavirus.


Vaccines are about prevention, not a cure. And the flu vaccine doesn't alleviate symptoms. Once you have the flu a vaccine isn't going to help make you well again.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

PaLady said:


> According to the CDC, the vaccine isn't live and therefore, shouldn't cause anyone to test positive after receiving it.


Not true...Again, no systematic testing has been done to evaluate that. The Ab tests are not terribly sensitive, so there may be many false negative tests after the vac. Scroll down to "Laboratory Testing" section--Interim Clinical Considerations for Use of COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC


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## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

doc- said:


> Not true...Again, no systematic testing has been done to evaluate that. The Ab tests are not terribly sensitive, so there may be many false negative tests after the vac. Scroll down to "Laboratory Testing" section--Interim Clinical Considerations for Use of COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC


I'm only stating the information that we received during our vaccine clinic. Our residents and staff received Pfizer vaccines.


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## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Vaccines are about prevention, not a cure. And the flu vaccine doesn't alleviate symptoms. Once you have the flu a vaccine isn't going to help make you well again.


And I agree with you...no vaccine for flu or covid is going to make anyone well again. It's a virus....you "ride it out" and move on.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

PaLady said:


> And I agree with you...no vaccine for flu or covid is going to make anyone well again. It's a virus....you "ride it out" and move on.


I know that you knew better, but we have enough misunderstanding about vaccines around here. Let's not make HT members any more confused than they are already.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I know that you knew better, but we have enough misunderstanding about vaccines around here. Let's not make HT members any more confused than they are already.


I think PaLady has imparted good information, as she is in the mix so to speak, I appreciate her contributions.


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## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

Nevada said:


> I know that you knew better, but we have enough misunderstanding about vaccines around here. Let's not make HT members any more confused than they are already.


Again, not sure where the confusion came from. I absolutely have never claimed that this vaccine is a cure for covid...not once.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

PaLady said:


> Again, not sure where the confusion came from. I absolutely have never claimed that this vaccine is a cure for covid...not once.


I was referring to:

_*"Like influenza, it alleviates the symptoms"*_

People could get the idea that getting the flu vaccine after contracting the flu might alleviate symptoms. I think what you intended to say that those who already got the flu vaccine might have more mild symptoms if they get the flu.


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## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

The education we received from the CDC with our vaccine clinic DID state that the covid vaccine was not a "cure" for the vaccine. It also stated that it didn't provide immunity from the virus. But it DID state that the vaccine could be expected to alleviate the symptoms associated with COVID 19, if contracting this virus occurred once vaccinated. I didn't just pull that information out of the air....sorry


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I was referring to:
> 
> _*"Like influenza, it alleviates the symptoms"*_
> 
> People could get the idea that getting the flu vaccine after contracting the flu might alleviate symptoms. I think what you intended to say that those who already got the flu vaccine might have more mild symptoms if they get the flu.


What are you talking about?


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## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

Nevada said:


> I was referring to:
> 
> _*"Like influenza, it alleviates the symptoms"*_
> 
> People could get the idea that getting the flu vaccine after contracting the flu might alleviate symptoms. I think what you intended to say that those who already got the flu vaccine might have more mild symptoms if they get the flu.


Semantics? Really? Thanks.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Nevada said:


> Interestingly, the positivity rate in Nevada is falling as the vaccine rollout covers more people. If the vaccine causes positive tests then wouldn't we expect the positivity rate to increase as more people get vaccinated?


Why would the vaccine, which does not contain the virus, cause a person to test positive for covid? So no, one would not expect the positivity percent to increase. One would expect the number of tests administered to decrease since fewer people are sick enough to be tested.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> Why would the vaccine, which does not contain the virus, cause a person to test positive for covid?


You'll have to ask PaLady. She's the one who observed it.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> Why would the vaccine, which does not contain the virus, cause a person to test positive for covid? So no, one would not expect the positivity percent to increase. One would expect the number of tests administered to decrease since fewer people are sick enough to be tested.


The CoV vac introduces only the viral mRNA that codes for the virus spike protein- not the whole virus like previous, conventional (or the new J&J vac)....No virus is involved, so the swab test for virus remains negative....The mRNA causes the host cell to make viral spike protein, which is recognized by the host lymphocytes as a foreign invader and causes them to make large amounts of antibody to neutralize spike protein....

After that, should a wild virus invade the host, the memory response of the lymphocytes is quickly activated and the wild virus neutralized before it can get a toe hold and cause problems.

Whether or not a test for circulating antibodies is positive depends on two things-- how sensitive is the test and how may antibodies are actually circulating in a person not currently challenged by invading viruses...Eg- tests for tetanus ab a yr or so after your tet shot are very low to negative, but you are still immune Your lymphocyte memory is very good and you quickly make a ton of Ab when challenged with tet toxin....OTOH- measles Ab's are always measurably high even yrs after your MMR and if you apply for a job as a teacher or nurse, they'll insist on a test if you don't have your records to prove you were vaccinated in the past.

The little bit of testing done so far after CoV vac is that some people show positive and many don't--The fault is probably the low sensitivity of the test coupled with low levels of circulating Ab....The real proof would be to purposely expose vaccinated subjects to infection and see how well the lymphocytes react....Ethical issues with that.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Nevada said:


> You'll have to ask PaLady. She's the one who observed it.


And those who were vaccinated were sick too. I did not see that as saying they got covid from the vaccine. They were probably exposed to covid in the process of getting the vaccine.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

A bunch of people here (including my MIL) missed their second dose here lately. All clinics are closed now due to something or other (depends on where you get your news) creating a shortage.

What then? MIL is now sitting at 5 weeks since the first dose. Start over again? Hope it hasn't been too long to get the second by the time they call her back? Curious what our medical people think.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Questions and Answers about COVID-19 Vaccines | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia


Have questions about COVID-19 and the vaccines? Check out a compilation of dozens of common questions we have received.




www.chop.edu





TPTB are the reason those people can't get the second dose. The clinics were ordered to not hold those back. And now the manufacturers are falling behind. All this just as Ohio is somehow able to get enough vaccines to allow those 50 years and older to register for their vaccine.









Coronavirus in Ohio Monday update: 1,254 daily cases reported


COLUMBUS (WCMH) — Gov. Mike DeWine provided updates Monday on COVID-19 and vaccination efforts in Ohio, including expanding who is eligible for the vaccines. You can watch him in the player a…




www.nbc4i.com





Something just isn't right.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> Let's not make HT members any more confused than they are already.


From the mouth of babes.


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## bamabear44 (Jan 30, 2018)

I have decided to get the shot...


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Mish said:


> A bunch of people here (including my MIL) missed their second dose here lately. All clinics are closed now due to something or other (depends on where you get your news) creating a shortage.
> 
> What then? MIL is now sitting at 5 weeks since the first dose. Start over again? Hope it hasn't been too long to get the second by the time they call her back? Curious what our medical people think.



She has time. Britain is delaying the second dose until 3 months in order to give everyone the first dose as quickly as possible. Studies show the first one even becomes a bit more effective if delayed a bit.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

mreynolds said:


> From the mouth of babes.


Ya got that right.


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## Secondwind (Feb 16, 2010)

Recent research in Wisconsin shoemaker that Vaccinated carry MORE virus loa


poppy said:


> That's one of the CDC's stats that never made any sense to me. If it takes 15 minutes within 6 feet of an infected person to get a viral load, what are the odds of getting a viral load in 5 seconds passing someone in a Walmart aisle? Have to be near zero.


the CDC is lying. And for those not aware they are not a gov agency. Recent research published out of Wisconsin shows those who got the experimental gene therapy shots carry a higher viral load than non-injected. They are also shedding the very dangerous spike protein which was supposed to stay in the Deltoid muscle but hss been found in all major organs including the brain. Those who took this exo shot have likely seriously compromised their immune system and if you were pregnant and did not miscarry and if your baby is female she will likely be unable to have children. 

Reiner Fuellmich, a renowned German attorney has filed suit against WHO (and more) is taking interviews with many persons. Look on Bitchute.com for his interview with Dr David Martin who gives the patent numbers from 2912 to 2019 for coronavirus and vaccines. Look for the interview with Dr Ardis. Both of these will open the doors to your realization you have been lied to


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

My Original Post appears (sadly) to be exactly what they are saying is happening.
Vaccinated people= fewer symptoms = unvaccinated people get sick and the # of cases go up.



painterswife said:


> Less viral load which is possible with the vaccines equates to less spreading of the virus.


I wish your point had borne out to be true, but I am not hearing this from any of TPTB.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

mzgarden said:


> My Original Post appears (sadly) to be exactly what they are saying is happening.
> Vaccinated people= fewer symptoms = unvaccinated people get sick and the # of cases go up.
> 
> 
> I wish your point had borne out to be true, but I am not hearing this from any of TPTB.


people who are vaccinated but get breakthrough infections fo have similar virus loads to the unvaccinated and infected…but far fewer vaccinated people get infected in the first place. From what I’ve read anyway.
Also since the primary infection route is thru aerosolized virus passed by coughing, etc…asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic people would presumably spread less. 🤷‍♀️


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Secondwind said:


> Recent research in Wisconsin shoemaker that Vaccinated carry MORE virus loa
> 
> the CDC is lying. And for those not aware they are not a gov agency. Recent research published out of Wisconsin shows those who got the experimental gene therapy shots carry a higher viral load than non-injected. They are also shedding the very dangerous spike protein which was supposed to stay in the Deltoid muscle but hss been found in all major organs including the brain. Those who took this exo shot have likely seriously compromised their immune system and if you were pregnant and did not miscarry and if your baby is female she will likely be unable to have children.
> 
> Reiner Fuellmich, a renowned German attorney has filed suit against WHO (and more) is taking interviews with many persons. Look on Bitchute.com for his interview with Dr David Martin who gives the patent numbers from 2912 to 2019 for coronavirus and vaccines. Look for the interview with Dr Ardis. Both of these will open the doors to your realization you have been lied to


I couldn't find the research from Wisconsin, but if it exists, please link it.

It isn't gene therapy.

The rest of the paragraph is ridiculous and there is no evidence for any of it..

Medika.life on why Reiner Fuellmich is full of $hit

"Reiner Fuellmich Covid Con? In a recent video, Reiner Fuellmich suggests everyone who fact checks his Covid conspiracy theory is in the pocket of big pharma or large corporations. He also states again that PCR tests don’t work and cannot be used for detecting anything. He then attacks vaccines, calling them genetic experiments and hints at sterilization, population control, and plain outright murder.
I’ve linked to the video below as we are going to address his fairy tale piece by piece, so you’ll need to refer to the video from time to time for context. It’s an interview conducted with Fuellmich by Marta Gameiro Branco on the 11th of April 2021. The actual interview is in English."





https://i2.wp.com/medika.life/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/image-12.jpeg?resize=397,515&ssl=1


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> I couldn't find the research from Wisconsin, but if it exists, please link it.
> 
> It isn't gene therapy.
> 
> ...


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

mzgarden said:


> I have to be missing something -
> 
> C19 vaccine IS intended to reduce severity of symptoms. It does NOT make you immune, it does NOT make it so you can not spread C19, if you have it.
> 
> ...


Reports are that those who are vaccinated are far less likely to get the virus and far less likely to transmit it. Also, those who get "light cases" have a much smaller virus load and are far less likely to transmit it.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> View attachment 99286


Our local hospitals are full to capacity with Covid patients. Lots of stories like below:


https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/coronavirus/article_cf8a46d2-0058-11ec-b6d5-d79dbe841273.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=nolafb&utm_campaign=snd&fbclid=IwAR0kv-rpp-8EnLNJZR_i26BjNigA1UGDzO7u5CtWK0kbmW56tCMaGfloU3M


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Secondwind said:


> Reiner Fuellmich, a renowned German attorney...


Renowned by who??? Best that I can find on him is that he's a major conspiracy theorist.



> ...with Dr David Martin...


Another one...



> ...Dr Ardis...


And another one...

I tend to not put stock in conspiracy theorists or koolaid drinkers... no matter from what direction they come from or whose koolaid they're drinking.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> Our local hospitals are full to capacity with Covid patients. Lots of stories like below:
> 
> 
> https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/coronavirus/article_cf8a46d2-0058-11ec-b6d5-d79dbe841273.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=nolafb&utm_campaign=snd&fbclid=IwAR0kv-rpp-8EnLNJZR_i26BjNigA1UGDzO7u5CtWK0kbmW56tCMaGfloU3M


Sad story... is there another point to posting it? Just curious.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> Our local hospitals are full to capacity with Covid patients. Lots of stories like below:
> 
> 
> https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/coronavirus/article_cf8a46d2-0058-11ec-b6d5-d79dbe841273.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=nolafb&utm_campaign=snd&fbclid=IwAR0kv-rpp-8EnLNJZR_i26BjNigA1UGDzO7u5CtWK0kbmW56tCMaGfloU3M


I don’t doubt it. Hospitals are businesses built to run near capacity.

We narrowly dodged NY running out of respirators, too, didn’t we?


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I don’t doubt it. Hospitals are businesses built to run near capacity.
> 
> We narrowly dodged NY running out of respirators, too, didn’t we?


Lest not we forget, a lot of medical facilities were short staffed beforehand and with mandated vaccines, many more are even more short staffed. Greener pastures and all...


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Secondwind said:


> Recent research in Wisconsin shoemaker that Vaccinated carry MORE virus loa
> 
> the CDC is lying. And for those not aware they are not a gov agency. Recent research published out of Wisconsin shows those who got the experimental gene therapy shots carry a higher viral load than non-injected. They are also shedding the very dangerous spike protein which was supposed to stay in the Deltoid muscle but hss been found in all major organs including the brain. Those who took this exo shot have likely seriously compromised their immune system and if you were pregnant and did not miscarry and if your baby is female she will likely be unable to have children.
> 
> Reiner Fuellmich, a renowned German attorney has filed suit against WHO (and more) is taking interviews with many persons. Look on Bitchute.com for his interview with Dr David Martin who gives the patent numbers from 2912 to 2019 for coronavirus and vaccines. Look for the interview with Dr Ardis. Both of these will open the doors to your realization you have been lied to


Link please for the WI study?.....Your grasp of the science is remarkably erroneous..




Lisa in WA said:


> Our local hospitals are full to capacity with Covid patients. Lots of stories like below:
> 
> 
> https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/coronavirus/article_cf8a46d2-0058-11ec-b6d5-d79dbe841273.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=nolafb&utm_campaign=snd&fbclid=IwAR0kv-rpp-8EnLNJZR_i26BjNigA1UGDzO7u5CtWK0kbmW56tCMaGfloU3M


Hospital bed utilization rate ~ 75% (about average) with 12% occupied by CoV infected pts (not specified if the CoV is the indication for hospitalization or coincidental) ICU beds at 78% with 27% for CoV. Hospital Utilization (takes forever to load; data updated 8/20/21)

In regards viral shedding after the vax-- it doesn't make a heckuvalot of dif if the load is very large, large or reduced-- that would only change the time course, not the results Eg- does it make any difference if you're shot by 10 bullets spaced 1 second apart or spaced 3 seconds apart?

Summary of effect of vaccination-- greatly reduces your chance of getting very sick and of dying from CoV; and it reduces the rate of spread to the susceptible, but not their over-all risk.

Because the vax is so much less than 100% perfect at reducing the carrier state, a true herd immunity situation (minimal chance that the non-immune will contact the virus) will never exist.

Conclusion: take the vax or take your chances. Are you aong the 99.9% who will survive a CoV infection or are you among the 0.1% who won't? ..How do you know ahead of time?


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

doc- said:


> Conclusion: take the vax or take your chances. Are you among the 99.9% who will survive a CoV infection or are you among the 0.1% who won't? ..How do you know ahead of time?


So, pray tell, doc-, how long term side effects of the various Covid shots factor in?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Wolf mom said:


> So, pray tell, doc-, how long term side effects of the various Covid shots factor in?


Long term side effects of getting covid seem higher than long-term side effects of getting the vaccine.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Long term side effects of getting covid seem higher than long-term side effects of getting the vaccine.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Wolf mom said:


> So, pray tell, doc-, how long term side effects of the various Covid shots factor in?


Good question...Because the vax has not been around "long term" we have no idea what those may be, or even if they do in fact exist....Keep in mind that vaccines generally have an excellent safety profile in terms of long term side effects. No reason to think this will be any different.

That's why only an individual should be deciding to get vaxxed or not, not a BigBrother govt.

I have not taken the vax. 

Studies early on showed that there are only two activities that increase your risk of picking up CoViD-- living with an infected pt and frequenting bars/restaurants....Not shopping, working etc etc....That doesn't mean you can't get it any other way, but normal activities don't increase your risk.

If I worked where there was frequent, close quarter contact with many other, I would have taken the vax-- benefits certainly outweigh any possible side effects, statistically speaking.... I stay home so my risk of contacting CoV is minimal and side effects rate of vax seems to outweigh its benefit to me.

We each need to evaluate our personal situation in those terms.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Long term side effects of getting covid seem higher than long-term side effects of getting the vaccine.


There is no way to know that


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

doc- said:


> Because the vax has not been around "long term" we have no idea what those may be, or even if they do in fact exist....Keep in mind that vaccines generally have an excellent safety profile in terms of long term side effects. No reason to think this will be any different.


So, what I hear you are saying is, even though these vaccines have not had long term testing, and with all these so called anecdotal side effects, it's OK for them to be approved?


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Wolf mom said:


> So, what I hear you are saying is, even though these vaccines have not had long term testing, and with all these so called anecdotal side effects, it's OK for them to be approved?


Everything is relative. Risk vs benefit.
Aspirin puts more people in the hosp each year than all other drugs combined. You'd never take an antibiotic with the safety profile of many chemo- agents. We accept higher risk when the target is high risk. Statins only help 1 pt in 45.who take it. etc etc

The vax was shown to be 95% effective in clinical trials over one month of Phase III (large number of subjects in a double blind protocol). Clinical Trial Data | Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine (EUA) Note that the complaints listed are the symptoms of an activated immune system....Also note that the serious side effects occurred in the same number subjects in both the vax and the placebo groups.

While that 1 month of observation sounds too short, at the time the risk of dying from CoViD was 1 in 50. To continue the experiment "just to be sure" meant that another 15,000 Americans would die for each additional month of observation...How sure do you want to be at that cost?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> There is no way to know that


Note the word "seem".
She needs to start bookmarking her googles.


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