# Sticky  P.T.S.D., its cause and effect and a path back.



## moopups

PTSD, suffered mostly by combat veterans is not limited to them, others can have it also via tragic accidents, abnormal stress, any moment of terror. Part of it is a brain chemical inbalance, the first step on the path back is found at: http://www.mhsanctuary.com/articles/emotmem.htm Its a long read but about 2/3rd ways down there is an OIC moment. The moment that can change your life for the better. Take the first step, I did and I am getting so sane its scarry.


----------



## bgak47

Hi moopups! Thanks for the link, & Thanks for starting this topic.  I thought that I had left all of this baggage behind me long ago. I spent 30yrs raising kids & making a life for my wife & my kids & myself, but since the kids have been grown & I've started getting older, I've found myself thinking more about those times. It's good to know that there are other people that think about those times without being too crazy about them.


----------



## moopups

Bgak47, my VA counselor states that there are many whom were not affected in the first 30 to 35 years because their lives kept them too busy to notice subtle things; now that the kids are grown and away its creeping in at a large percentage rate. There is also a eating disorder developing parallel to the same, some people are sleepwalking, cooking a complete meal, eating and then returning to bed only to awaken to find the evidence of the meal but with no memory of it. Maybe P.T.S.E.D. will be the name applied.


----------



## moopups

Had VA appointments this morning, foot doc (can't spell it!), labs, general MD, and PTSD group therapy session, new round. The last 8 round of PTSD stuff was complete waste of time; 'find a happy place', 'breath deeply', 'learn to relax'. Stuff you would tell a 6 year old who was suffering a temper trantum, 35 years too late and very juvinille. Not a thing that I would call helpfull; it seems as if the VA docs methods end at the same time their education ended, and some of them are dinasoures.

This new round started with the doc leader requesting that we all be on time, at exactly 8:40 each Tuesday for an undetermined length of time, may be many months. She requested this for 6 and 1/2 minutes; there in a place where stress was supposed to be reduced we were getting a sermon on being on time for 6 1/2 minutes. Didn't feel right to be there. Next we got papers to sign promissing to obey the rules (no profanity or physical gysters), no alcohol or drug use for any reason ( I only take 13 pills per day for medical purpose includeing mood elevators), still felt wrong to be there.

Then it started to be silly, she said 'we will all feel better about ourselves after we (a mouse in her pocket?) finnish this exercize'. How can she say 'we'? She has not had super alertness for 35 years, been strung out in combat mode for 24 - 7 status. I had visions of a fussy granny herding her ducks with her cane, as I tried to stay focused, did not work.

She collected the signed papers but noticed mine was not signed; this stopped the parade/charade of events; her words were 'You will sign this before we can continue'. WOAH!! Time out, I will not be herded! I have a 'will not be herded gene' and chose to use it; I placed the pen on her desk and walked out, kept my cool the whole time. I will not return to a group session for any reason, I do not want to tell a dozen strangers my inner thoughts or feelings. It took me over 4 years to even speak of it here at the other end of an electron medium where faces are not seen, how could I speak of such before strangers? I will not be quota fodder under any circumstances, that is what caused the problem to exist.

Edited to add; I can just see myself sitting before the group, trying to clarify a point about something and haveing the group disagree, a couple of them raiseing their voice to me; it would last about 10 seconds. I would be cooled off before the campus security gets there; I would have a real problem then in a physical sense, plus it would be agood reason for them to seek to place me somewhere I will not go. I am the results of a failed battle stragity, I must live with it, no one else can, no one else experienced my past. This is something I must ride till the end without allowing it to get loose ever again. You, who read the first of this series know what I am speaking about.


----------



## Guest

moopups said:


> PTSD, suffered mostly by combat veterans is not limited to them, others can have it also via tragic accidents, abnormal stress, any moment of terror. Part of it is a brain chemical inbalance, the first step on the path back is found at: http://www.mhsanctuary.com/articles/emotmem.htm Its a long read but about 2/3rd ways down there is an OIC moment. The moment that can change your life for the better. Take the first step, I did and I am getting so sane its scarry.


Moopups, THANK YOU for this link. I have trued just about everything I can imagine to help my DH, who spent 2 &1/2 tours in VN. He was an EOD RECONN MARINE. MANY MANY wounds, with tremendous scars! He also has SEVERE PTSD as he understandably would! He FINALLY got his 100% disability from the VA after fighting for it for 30 years. I had actually doubted some of the things he told me, because there were no records available on the things he said happened even though he had the scars. He kept telling me the records were "sealed" even now, because of where he was....you know what I'm talking about. Anyway, I kept pushing him to file for everything and anything he said happened....everything denied denied denied because they said he couldn't PROVE it was service connected. Finally, I sent a letter that he gave me all the info for stating to the VA review board where he was, what he was doing, and stated that this information was classified and that it should remain so, BUT NOT at the expense of denying one of the bravest warriors the friggin' country ever had. We got the 100% rating within 3 weeks and his backpay in 14 days. I guess sometimes you have to get tough with the ones who taught you to be tough......And BTW, I TOTALLY respect your response to the PTSD "clinic" you went to. I was a MH therapist MSW, LCSW, and Board Certified Diplomate in Social Work for over 25 years.....there is NO EXCUSE for ANYONE to treat a group of PTSD vets that way!! If I had treated any of my clients, who were mostly abusive parents and sexually abused children that way, not only would I have NEVER have been able to look myself in the mirror again, but I KNOW a reprimand would have been in the works! I APOLOGIZE for the STUPID B8888!! What a CROCK!!!


----------



## OUVickie

moopups said:


> Edited to add; I can just see myself sitting before the group, trying to clarify a point about something and haveing the group disagree, a couple of them raiseing their voice to me; it would last about 10 seconds. I would be cooled off before the campus security gets there; I would have a real problem then in a physical sense, plus it would be agood reason for them to seek to place me somewhere I will not go. I am the results of a failed battle stragity, I must live with it, no one else can, no one else experienced my past. This is something I must ride till the end without allowing it to get loose ever again. You, who read the first of this series know what I am speaking about.


Have you checked into a Veterans Support Group sponsored by Veterans? Sometimes those are better. You get a counselor who is usually a VFW Vet himself. We have two friends with varying degrees of PTSD and this has worked much better for them as far as group support goes.


----------



## Dreams30

Moopups,

I am a beginning couselor and if I you would help me, I would like to understand how to work with clients with PTSD. I had one client come to me with PTSD and I referred the client to another counselor because I know that I am not skilled in that area. I would like to be skilled in the area because my step-dad suffers from PTSD and I know how it has affected his whole life.

It sounds to me like she did everything that is now taught in school. That was obviously not helpful. What would have been helpful?

What could she have done to make the group more inviting? What should she have done?


----------



## moopups

Basicallly, PTSD will not be removed or covered up, it is too strongly entrenched within the individuals mind, you cannot unring a 35 year old bell. You cannot erase extremely past memories, they have recycled for thousands of times, their pattern is too deep. The sufferors cannot push it out of their mind, the meds do not cover it up. All that can be done is to convince the victum toleave it behind and progress into an alterted view of life, "There once was an anchor" is all I can suggest. The anchor is still there, allways will be, it is personnal choise whether or not a line is attached.

Therapywise, I can only suggest the victum be made alert to the fact that it is personnal choise whether or not to be attached to the anchor; some find security within a familiar pattern even if it is negative and choose not to leave. Others fight to get away but cannot because of their closed minds. Only when there is more desirable options available is the time to gather distance from the anchor, suggest seperation only dureing the high spots. Do not seek any actions when things are at ebb, it is too easy to seek familiar patterns then. It lies within the individual as to when the seperation is correct for them, its too big for mental health people to understand if they have not experienced it. Get away when the getting is good, it will never leave you, only you can leave it.

Edited to add; After rereading your question I see I did not answer it. First of all, never a group setting, we do not want to speak in front of others,. it could trigger their memories to a worse place; its our own private ___. We do not go to reunions because we might see someone we left behind dureing the rotations, someone in a wheelchair, or legless, or totally destroied because we were not there to cover them. We have no interest in talking with someone with out scars, be they mental or physical,you must have and show scars. After we learn to trust you have walked your own path of static, then we can start to trust your words. We trusted the leaders words then, look what it got us. If you haven't been waist deep in it, you will not know about it, therefore your and our time would be wasted. Put the knarrley old dude who has lost a wife to a drunk driver on their 40th anniversary up front to speak with us, or the woman who lost her son in the mess,don't offer us second best anything, we have earned first class contact with counceilers. Backspace the numbers out of your URL and enter; 39612, then 45202, and then 44016. After you have read the three portions come ask the question again. PTSD has seperated me from normal existance this lifetime, there is no recovery, realizing that I chose to return to the human race, maybe some day I'll make it back home.


----------



## Maura

I'm sorry this group session did not work for you. From your description, she thought you were either juvenile dels, or jailbirds. I wonder how many other people will stop going to these sessions.

You could rule out group therapy altogether, or you could see if there are better therapists. If you started with an experienced therapist on an idividual basis, this person may be able to steer you to a better group when you are ready.

Bless you


----------



## moopups

http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/mental_health/ptsd.htm Another stepping stone has became visible for this disorder, as above.


----------



## leaping leon

Moderator(s), if you find this off-topic, please feel free to delete it, or contact me and I will come back and delete it.

I was abused as a child and because of my early conditioning, I chose to marry one abuser after another. One of them stalked me for about ten years.

After decades of struggle; one thing I relate to is the PTSD of Veterans. I understand the deep seated conditioning of being afraid for years on end. I have also experienced useless and sometimes damaging "counseling"...

It's possible that my father-in-law had PTSD from WWII, and that played a part in the emotional abuse that produced my present husband's problems.
My poor husband is obsessed with WWII related subjects due to his father's conditioning...he is still trying to gain approval from a father who is now dead.

I guess there's one thing I can't relate to: lucky for you guys, most of you got to leave your enemies behind in another country...mine are in the next county or two. I'm living with one of them, but we're more on a "cold war" level than open warfare... And you were conditioned as adults; my conditioning started while I was still in diapers. 

On the other hand, I relate to "seeing" enemies where there are none. And maybe I have more coping mechanisms since I had to learn them as a child in order to survive.

Dadgummit, I guess I'm really normal considering...  

I had to come to partial terms with some of this a few years ago. I decided that I had to LIVE my life, even if the stalker was going to kill me the next hour or the next day. The fear was ruling my life to the point that I wasn't sure I wanted to continue living this way for another few decades. I decided I had to either _live_, or _die_; and living in that kind of fear year after year was like death. 

Thank you for your bravery in sharing some of this. You have reminded me of my commitment to "live until I die"...I had forgotten lately...

God bless you all, I will say some prayers for you. (Even if you don't believe in God, there has got to be something good in someone thinking good thoughts about you.)


----------



## ChiliPalmer

I once asked my therapist if she could issue me a medical ID bracelet for PTSD, as I nearly knocked a man flat at a Barnes & Nobles. He didn't mean anything but, unknowingly, he was acting like a threat and took me by surprise.

Screw the ID, maybe I ought to get a sign. "PTSD - startling me may result in loss of limb."


----------



## jamesdel

Sorry folks Dont mean to intrude since my service times dosent fall under the "time frame " just glad to see I am not alone ,
Jim


----------



## The Colonies

Have you ever heard of EMDR? www.emdr.com I had a medical doctor suggest I seek out this treatment and he admitted he went through EMDR for his past issues.

I have had lots of stuff happen in my young life that I would not wish upon my worst enemy. 

I was diagnosed as having PTSD. My psychologist trained in EMDR treats me with proven methods (it is NOT voodoo/mind playing tricks) to treat a persons trauma. It is painful to get through it but soon those bad memories disappear. I know I stopped having nightmares/bad dreams/bad memories for the most part. It can be a lifesaver!

The psychologist I see has been in practice for 30 years and treats kids and adults. He mostly works with children who have been abused (sexual or physical or verbal). He treats kids with EMDR as well. I would ask the therapist how long he/she has been treating patients with EMDR. Go with your gut feeling about the therapist.


----------



## tcboweevil

Hey MooPups, Thank you. The way you wrote about your life and what you went through really hit home for me. I too am hypersensitive and have PSTD from a 12 year abusive marriage. I tried to read the links you gave, but # 45202 and 44016 doesn't work for me. But the first post you wrote I could really identify with your reactions and emotions so I want to use it to help my children. I have a 17 yo daughter and a 15 year old son. My ex took them from me 5 yrs ago and now they have returned with this same pstd. My daughter was thrown in jail by her father for cutting him with a knife, which turned out to be self inflicted, thats how I found them. The court called me, and she came home with me 2 months ago. I am simplifying her reactions to stress, criticism, or any time of guilt of fear of retribution, but she takes on the Ill get you before you get me mentality. My 15 yo son Freddy ran away from home to come here 2 weeks ago. He self medicates, avoids issues and really keeps things inside....
I really want to help them and myself. I am starting to have good days, ie days without waking up to dread and fear that the other shoe will fall any minute now. I really like to good days. I can almost breathe normally now( without holding my breath all the time). But I have had a good, supportive husband( he is a vet too and understands how I think) We have moved to isolation in the country so that my senses aren't overwhelmed every minute of the day. So I am healing. Your post connected with some of the things that are happening with me naturally over the past 5 years that is bringing me some peace. Do you have any suggestions to help my tenagers? and to help me be a parent to them. They are smart and not too wild as far as teenagers go, but I cant be critical, or have a tone in my voice. They perceive every nuance and get offended easily. I see this, and try to be supportive, and any advice you give, will be appreciated and used to help me, help them and I love you from the bottom of my heart for being brave enough to survive ____, walk through____, learn to heal, and be loving enough to share.








http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h164/tcboweevil/fallenangelofwar.jpg
Pictures fram an artist. I will get the name. My sister-in-law sent me this picture from him. I tells how he can't forget that th war is over. That he will battle his own demons until the angels take him home. Love to all who gaveto save us and rest to those who gave all.


----------



## moopups

Read the mental health link mentioned above in the first post, then watch for a PM. PTSD is controlable, it will not ever go away, it sticks like a shadow, you can control it though.


----------



## davaseco

Moopups - 

never have I read someone descibe the feelings and dealings of suffering from PTSD so accurately as what you have wrote. Thank You. You have put into words what I can not explain.

I was dx with PTSD 2+ years ago while my DD at age 3, was going through her 2nd year of chemotherapy. No, I don't have the honor of being a veteran, just a Mom suriving ___on earth trying to fight an unseen war and keep her baby alive. DD had 3 years of chemo and many nearly fatal episodes from secondary infections, but my battles weren't just holding her hand and feeding her chemicals in a hospital. My HOME became a war zone - against germs/mold. I was in a state of complete paranoia, just knowing that ANY germ/mold she was exposed to could possibly kill her in a very short amount of time. 24/7 care for her was intense, nerve wracking and an physically draining.The house had to be "sterilized" everyDAY. Lack of sleep made me a zombie - but I still had to be completely alert for any "sign" that something might be wrong. I did this - and more- for 3 years. I still do this to some degree 1 year later.

This probably pales in comparison to your experiences but perhaps there are a few similarities.

I guess I'm doing Ok with the PTSD - I tried the drugs the Dr gave me but I didn't like the way they made me feel - I still have bouts of paranoia and reoccurant nightmares, feelings hit me at time seemingly out of nowhere, but I guess my biggest problem I deal with is the FEAR of it all - what "could" have happened and what could possibly STILL happen. I cringe and get that awful knot in my stomach each time DD makes a complaint about an ailment that could be nothing at all - just childhood - OR could be a sign of the cancer returning. Just knowing that there is the possability that we may have to face this battle again - but worse can be my undoing some days. I can't forget what we've been through and I fear having to do it again....I just don't know how to get past that. I'm extremely sensitive to things related to what we've been through and am overly protective of DD. She does have physically and mental disabilities due to the infections, surgeries and chemotherapy. It is a daily slap in the face knowing that cancer "stole" this from her, and that schools and Drs. don't know hoe to help her because there isn't enough known about the long term effects of treatments - there just aren't enough survivors yet - so she "falls through the cracks". How do you PROVE a problem if supporting data doesn't exist?
I'm tired. Today is one of my off days - can you tell?
Having our homestead helps. It helps me focus on other things and being here only 5 months there is plenty around here to do. I'm doing Ok. My prayer is that the further away we get from the experience the less often I'll have these days. I won't pretend that I'll forget what all we went through - nor would I want to - to do so I feel would nullify the fight and give it less meaning - I just want the feelings to lose their sting.

I guess I really didn't contribute anything to this thread - but it felt good to "voice" my feelings. 
Sorry for the intrusion.


----------



## The Colonies

Please check out EMDR, it can help. I was diagnosed as having PTSD, anxiety and depression from a horrid upbringing, and other horrid things (as I posted earlier that I would not wish upon my worst enemy) that affected me. Growing up I had destructive behavior, etc. 

Seek out a psychologist who specializes in EMDR....*a medical doctor recommended this treatment for me. * It has helped me. I am through the worst of it and I do *not* have the nightmares anymore. I still wig out over stressful situations and I too am sensitive. I was given stress sensors to tap around my eye, fingers, collar bone, etc. to help stop the stress in its tracks. I am not saying this to take up space, but please check it out.


----------



## The Colonies

EMDR treats military veterans and anyone suffereing from PTSD and it helps the individual erase memories, however, I am told that some people will not benefit but overall many veterans claim they now can have a life. EMDR wiped away some of my horrid memories, the ones that were treated......

Check out a brief overview of EMDR http://www.emdr.com/briefdes.htm


American Psychiatric Association (2004). Practice Guideline for the Treatment of Patients with Acute Stress Disorder and Post-traumatic Stress Disorder. Practice Guideline for the Treatment of Patients with Acute Stress Disorder and Post-traumatic Stress Disorder. Arlington, VA: American Psychiatric Association Practice Guidelines.

â¢ EMDR was given the highest level of recommendation (category for robust empirical support and demonstrated effectiveness) in the treatment of trauma. 

Department of Veterans Affairs and Department of Defense (2004). VA/DoD Clinical Practice Guideline for the Management of Post-Traumatic Stress. Washington, DC.

â¢ EMDR was placed in the "A" category as âstrongly recommendedâ for the treatment of trauma. 


To find a EMDR therapists click on: http://www.emdr.com/clinic.htm


----------



## symple-lyfe

Just wanted to thank you, Moopups, for posting that link at the top. I've been dealing with my PTSD alone for the last 6 years, and I just found a place to talk about it all without having to look at a person. Its very nice to know I'm not alone here. 

Thanks again!


----------



## tcboweevil

I have so much anxiety tonight that I cant sleep. I hurt all over and when I try to close my eyes, My nerves shock me so I can't relax. Nothing unusual today except, the kids are sick. Some kind of allergy/virus/ something. Nothing too bad, but we had to go to the doctor. Left with reassurances, and allergy scrips. I dont usually take meds except a few food/herbs/ supplements. but i am shook up over something I cant figure out. Just too much of nothing I suppose. I hope everyon out there is having a peaceful, safe sleep. Thank you for just being there to share with.


----------



## symple-lyfe

I've found a great place with lots of information and discussion about PTSD. The emphasis there is finding a way to heal, or at least, get symptoms under control. Its kinda like group therapy, but no one sees anyone, and the board is very busy. Anyhow, here's the address if anyone's interested:

http://www.ptsdforum.org/


----------



## faeriecat

I know I'm new to y'alls forum but I found this thread very interesting. I am a Veteran, but as a woman I'm a "support role/non combat" type. Yeah, right. Clearly the politicians haven't a clue (isn't that about par for the course?). I rode around on top of a semi manning a machine gun (military guys: yes, the M2 50 cal) all over Iraq and into some fun resort spots ... Abu Graib prison, Ramadi, Falluja ... there is no "combat" and "support" divide any more. Not really. Not when for a long stretch of time it was safer for us to be out on the highway rather than on our own silly little camp (it averaged 1 mortar attack a day). The poor Chaplain (a rather good soul from Minnesota, reminded me of the Chaplain from the show MASH) was floored when I said I'd rather be on the road it's safer. 

.... anyway, yes, I too have PTSD. It's a hard thing for me to admit, 'cause I've always have been a self sufficient type. And if one more person asks me if I was sexually abused (whoops, can I say that on this board??) while in the military I think I will have to ~ggggrrrrr~ Yes, women Vets can have stress related to combat these days, ya need to learn that!  And most of the men were scared of me anyway ~giggle~

I ~think~ in general the VA system must have learned from the mistakes done to the Vietnam Vets ... we're now checked very thoroughly upon returning home. It doesn't change the slowness of the VA system, but we're not "pooh-pooh'd" like I hear was done to the Vets who have gone before.

For the most part I deal with day to day life well. And then they do stupid things like build a hotel behind my office ... complete with earth shaking blasting. ~gahhhh~ Luckily, I'm a computer geek by trade and can work from home frequently, so that's where I am at, home, away from that #($#)(* blasting. 

Anyway ... thanks for letting me babble ...

Kit


----------



## journeyman

I'm Viet Nam era ... and all I'm going to say about it is ... try to get on with your life by living your FRIST DREAMS. 

Don't waste time "trying to get and keep a job" if it's not a dream job .. if it's not your calling.

Don't waste time trying to fit into ANY square pegs ... or round holes if they don't fit. 

Don't waste ANY time trying to prove yourself ... or make yourself into anyone you're not.

AVOID drug and alcohol abuse like The Plague! (And try not to sexualize your pain or discomfort. Strange as it sounds, sex can mess you up more and take you longer to heal from than drugs and booze.)

Try to get into a long term, monogomous relationship with someone who does not drink nor drug. Love will knock off a lot of those rough edges.

It's better if you have a belief in God ... attend a church and become part of a congregation. Seeing their feet of clay ... their short comings and imperfections ... and learning to love them in spite of ... and THEN ... showing them YOUR feet of clay ...your short comings and imperfections .... AND LETTING THEM LOVE YOU ... in spite of.

Therein rests the best therapy you can ever get. That VA will keep you coming and going for years ... 'till you figure out just what I've mentioned.

Read Scott Peck's, "The Road Less Traveled" and ... Maslow if you want to get "deep" wit it all. But somebody who thinks you hung the moon ... and the integrity and character to love and not leave will fit the bill just fine.


----------



## redbird4

I am NOT ALONE!!!! Thank you. No vet here just a child who was sexually abused and a mother who lost her child. A nona who needs her grandchildren, a person who needs a friend...bless you for leading me here...


----------



## celticfalcon

i to have been possibly diagnosed with ptsd. i am now starting the process of getting treatment thru a dr. and the va. my v f w and amvets( witch i am an officer in both clubs as my g/f is an officer in the ladies aux) is 100% behind me. my service officer is helping me and at times driving me to the va in detroit. its not a pretty thing to live with.
ive allways said i didnt have a problem but everyone, including my civilan employer has said my temperment and my mood swings is not like i use to be. with hope and prayers i/we can beat this.
god bless the vets and the ones serving now
thanx
tom


----------



## moopups

All readers here; the best you can associate with PTSD is that it will never leave you, its a lifetime affliction, the best and only thing that can happen is that YOU LEAVE IT.


----------



## Homely

I'm not a vet, so I hope its ok if I post here. My late dad had PTSD following a plane crash. He did a lot of research into alternative treatments after the conventional treatment nearly killed him. He did recover pretty well over the years (20 or so). He learned a method of tapping certain places on the face as a treatment. (He was an MD and certified in many alternative medicine methods) If I come across the name of the method, I'll post it.


----------



## Thorny man

Moopups, you have said what I could only think, I could never put it into words.... VN vet , and it just doesn't go away....

I was at the the va and I was finally asked if I ever witnessed anything so bad that it gave me nightmares and bad thoughts....

At first I was stunned, no one ever asked anything like that before anywhere.
I answered a large YES , it found like some weight was being lifted off of me and before I could say anything else, she looked at me with eyes opened wide and said " did you witness this within the last 3 years ?" I said "No, but..."

And she intertupted me and said "OH" flipped the page over and asked me about my meds....... 

I felt like someone had just punched me..... 

Thanks again for saying what we feel and have felt and will never quit feeling. As far as someone mentioning find a love and it will help. I have been through 3 marriages, don't think my PTSD is helping me in that department ....


----------



## Steely

Yesterday or 50 years ago,it never goes away.You can see it anytime.Perhaps in time it is less vivid but always there at a thought.How do you leave it behind?


----------



## moopups

In response to your question, PTSD will not leave you, you must leave it. Start with the link (first post) in the PTSD sticky that your question is posted within. It explains how the brain works, most all people think in patterns, the link subjects you to the way it happens, and also places pattern modifications capabilities.

An example cited states, you have been to the grocery store maybe 3 to 5 thousand times, which one do you remember the details? Not the mundane or common visits, but rather the one where the silver haired lady grabbed the last can of the produce you were seeking.

It is the out of the ordinary things that our brains remember, its your job to seek out the patterns and make changes. There will be a key 'entrance' word that cascades toward the undesirable thoughts. FIND THAT WORD, via finding that pattern. FIND THAT PATTERN first, makes it much easier.

The human brain is a bit parallel to a computers file system, your fingers are on the keys, (your brain has the thoughts), you can delete, or you can repeat.


----------



## Klapton

moopups said:


> Bgak47, my VA counselor states that there are many whom were not affected in the first 30 to 35 years because their lives kept them too busy to notice subtle things; now that the kids are grown and away its creeping in at a large percentage rate. There is also a eating disorder developing parallel to the same, some people are sleepwalking, cooking a complete meal, eating and then returning to bed only to awaken to find the evidence of the meal but with no memory of it. Maybe P.T.S.E.D. will be the name applied.


Some of those supposed "30 to 35 years" folks are Vietnam vets who actually have Gulf War Syndrome now after being exposed to nerve agents in Gulf War I. 

My brother in law was a helicopter pilot in both wars. His Vietnam experience wasn't any fun to say the least, but he functioned 100% normally after coming home. In fact, he was one of the most energetic and vigorous men I've ever known.

About a year after coming back from Iraq, he started getting flu-like symptoms that would lay him up for a few days at a time, with no apparent infection or reason for it. His energy level is horrible now. It's like someone flipped the "old switch" on him, and he's like an old man now.

The VA insists that he has PTSD. It's a load of crap. He was FINE after Vietnam. He was psychologically FINE after GWI. Sure he saw ugly things. Sure there are things he doesn't like to think about. But everyone who knows him KNOWS that PTSD is NOT his problem.

The truth is that about 100,000 of our troops were exposed to nerve agent from us blowing up an Iraqi ammo dump while I troops were down wind. Now the government is covering it up, since "we" did it by blowing the stuff up. Mark my words -- about 50 years from now, when most of the GWI veterans are dead, we'll find out about the cover up, and the couple hundred that are still alive will get some compensation so we can all feel better about it.

/rant off

EDIT: Just so folks know, I have combined active and reserve duty in the Army of 19 years.


----------



## foxfiredidit

Good luck you guys. I'm 40 years on down the road this coming August. I got past it, you can too. Class of '68 - '69. Brothers in arms are brothers always.


----------



## Sonshine

I am a vet, but not a war vet. I'm not sure if I have PTSD or not. I got married when I was 16 to an abusive alcoholic. We have 4 kids together. I saw all 4 of them die. The first two in a house fire in 1976, I was 19. 3 months later my 3rd baby was born premie, he lived for 2 days. I watched him die as the doctors were doing surgery on him. The fourth one was also premie. She lived 2 months on life support. They pulled the plug when she was 2 months old. I held her as she died. I ended up divorcing the abuser and joining the USAF after the 4th baby died. I never went to counseling for the nightmares, which I still have to this day when they are triggered by something. By the age of 22 I had buried my 4 children and was told I would never carry a baby long enough to live. I have since remarried to a wonderful man. We adopted a boy, who is now 9 yrs old and we had custody of a girl we consider our daughter, who is now 19 and in the USAF. If it were not for the grace of God I would not have any sanity left, according to some I have very little. LOL But even with God's help and strength, there are times I can't get away from the nightmares of seeing my first two kids die in the fire. So, is this PTSD?


----------



## ChristyACB

Currently coming up on my 22nd year of service and strange as it may seem, nothing at all that I've ever done caused me a bit of problem...until Katrina. My ship was the first on scene and as the ship's best OOD I spent most of the time in the saddle first getting it in close and then staying close for several days.

During that several hot days the earth was in the ocean. The large oil platforms we had passed just a couple of weeks ago and that had my little tick marks on the chart for position confirm were just gone. 

Empty lifevests. Lots of empty lifevests. Lots of empty overturned lifecraft.

Big beautiful live oak trees like nightmare icebergs in the water and whole fields of hay and farm produce, front porches and shoes. Pink flamingoes from yards and decorations from a wedding. Dolls with little ponytails in their hair.

And the worst of the worst was the animals. So very very many. A dog still tied up to a tree, both of them floating together. Horses, cows, dogs, raccoons, sheep and everything else. It was like the world was killed and all put into one reeking hot flat ocean of water. I had a pony when I was little, a little white pony with the longest hair. One like him came floating by, with little pink bows still in his mane. He didn't float far and I must have passed him and maneuvered around him a dozen times. 

We could do nothing. I just had to keep driving the ship and try not to hit them. The sun was hot and it got very ugly after a few days because everything stayed in the area. I won't describe it. All the normal predators were killed in the surge so no sharks to help clean up. 

Its strange because I'm still on active duty and I can't tell anyone there that I have this problem because it would be the end of my career. It isn't like it is in the foreground all the time, it is just waiting for something I see or hear to bring it on. 

Not really sure if that is PTSD or just a normal reaction to seeing something very bad, but either way, it changed my view on life in a big way. And it changed the way I think about people...I have FAR less pity rather than more. 

I'll look up that and see if that can help and I appreciate the info.


----------



## farmergirl

ChristyACB said:


> Currently coming up on my 22nd year of service and strange as it may seem, nothing at all that I've ever done caused me a bit of problem...until Katrina. My ship was the first on scene and as the ship's best OOD I spent most of the time in the saddle first getting it in close and then staying close for several days.
> 
> During that several hot days the earth was in the ocean. The large oil platforms we had passed just a couple of weeks ago and that had my little tick marks on the chart for position confirm were just gone.
> 
> Empty lifevests. Lots of empty lifevests. Lots of empty overturned lifecraft.
> 
> Big beautiful live oak trees like nightmare icebergs in the water and whole fields of hay and farm produce, front porches and shoes. Pink flamingoes from yards and decorations from a wedding. Dolls with little ponytails in their hair.
> 
> And the worst of the worst was the animals. So very very many. A dog still tied up to a tree, both of them floating together. Horses, cows, dogs, raccoons, sheep and everything else. It was like the world was killed and all put into one reeking hot flat ocean of water. I had a pony when I was little, a little white pony with the longest hair. One like him came floating by, with little pink bows still in his mane. He didn't float far and I must have passed him and maneuvered around him a dozen times.
> 
> We could do nothing. I just had to keep driving the ship and try not to hit them. The sun was hot and it got very ugly after a few days because everything stayed in the area. I won't describe it. All the normal predators were killed in the surge so no sharks to help clean up.
> 
> Its strange because I'm still on active duty and I can't tell anyone there that I have this problem because it would be the end of my career. It isn't like it is in the foreground all the time, it is just waiting for something I see or hear to bring it on.
> 
> Not really sure if that is PTSD or just a normal reaction to seeing something very bad, but either way, it changed my view on life in a big way. And it changed the way I think about people...I have FAR less pity rather than more.
> 
> I'll look up that and see if that can help and I appreciate the info.


Your post so eloquently captures the gruesomeness that was the aftermath of Katrina. I can't even imagine how I would feel if I had seen it firsthand. Thank you for being there. Thank you for telling us what you witnessed.


----------



## draggahaus

I was told that I had ptsd when I had 4 family members die within weeks of each other, and then my son was abused by his sitter. I was told that any traumatic event in your life will cause you to have it. Basically each time something stressful happens it is hard for me to deal with...I have to go through the steps,and it takes longer to get past it.


----------



## Tiempo

I just came to this site tonight as we are about to close on our new mini farm and I came to learn about homesteading.

I amazed and very pleased to find this forum on the site.

My husband is a Gulf War vet who is rated 100% disabled from PTSD.

There is so much to share, I'm not sure even where to begin, but I suppose I'll start with one of his main issues, which is his huge guilt over his diagnosis.

He has a really hard time coming to terms with the fact that he feels so messed up due to "only" 7 months in Kuwait/Iraq and "only" 3 days actual combat.

He sees his father, a Vietnam vet, and reads stories about what all the service men/women are going through now, and he feels like he has no business suffering the way he does.

The best I can do is to try to remind him that people suffer from PTSD from car crashes, rapes etc. All terrible things that last only a few seconds to minutes, but which still have a lifelong impact.

He was abused for a six month period by a neighbor at the age of 8 and had never made the possible connection between this and the distinct chance that this experience left him very susceptible to PTSD when exposed to a combat situation (a compromised sense of 'safety'?), he recently found a wonderful therapist who is helping him tremendously...but it's a long road.


----------



## Tiempo

ChristyACB said:


> Currently coming up on my 22nd year of service and strange as it may seem, nothing at all that I've ever done caused me a bit of problem...until Katrina. My ship was the first on scene and as the ship's best OOD I spent most of the time in the saddle first getting it in close and then staying close for several days.
> 
> During that several hot days the earth was in the ocean. The large oil platforms we had passed just a couple of weeks ago and that had my little tick marks on the chart for position confirm were just gone.
> 
> Empty lifevests. Lots of empty lifevests. Lots of empty overturned lifecraft.
> 
> Big beautiful live oak trees like nightmare icebergs in the water and whole fields of hay and farm produce, front porches and shoes. Pink flamingoes from yards and decorations from a wedding. Dolls with little ponytails in their hair.
> 
> And the worst of the worst was the animals. So very very many. A dog still tied up to a tree, both of them floating together. Horses, cows, dogs, raccoons, sheep and everything else. It was like the world was killed and all put into one reeking hot flat ocean of water. I had a pony when I was little, a little white pony with the longest hair. One like him came floating by, with little pink bows still in his mane. He didn't float far and I must have passed him and maneuvered around him a dozen times.
> 
> We could do nothing. I just had to keep driving the ship and try not to hit them. The sun was hot and it got very ugly after a few days because everything stayed in the area. I won't describe it. All the normal predators were killed in the surge so no sharks to help clean up.
> 
> Its strange because I'm still on active duty and I can't tell anyone there that I have this problem because it would be the end of my career. It isn't like it is in the foreground all the time, it is just waiting for something I see or hear to bring it on.
> 
> Not really sure if that is PTSD or just a normal reaction to seeing something very bad, but either way, it changed my view on life in a big way. And it changed the way I think about people...I have FAR less pity rather than more.
> 
> I'll look up that and see if that can help and I appreciate the info.


Christy, I'm just stunned by your post.

Speechless. 

Of all I read in the papers, all I saw on the news... nothing brought home the magnitude of what happened like your few words here.


----------



## Tiempo

Klapton said:


> Some of those supposed "30 to 35 years" folks are Vietnam vets who actually have Gulf War Syndrome now after being exposed to nerve agents in Gulf War I.
> 
> My brother in law was a helicopter pilot in both wars. His Vietnam experience wasn't any fun to say the least, but he functioned 100% normally after coming home. In fact, he was one of the most energetic and vigorous men I've ever known.
> 
> About a year after coming back from Iraq, he started getting flu-like symptoms that would lay him up for a few days at a time, with no apparent infection or reason for it. His energy level is horrible now. It's like someone flipped the "old switch" on him, and he's like an old man now.
> 
> The VA insists that he has PTSD. It's a load of crap. He was FINE after Vietnam. He was psychologically FINE after GWI. Sure he saw ugly things. Sure there are things he doesn't like to think about. But everyone who knows him KNOWS that PTSD is NOT his problem.
> 
> The truth is that about 100,000 of our troops were exposed to nerve agent from us blowing up an Iraqi ammo dump while I troops were down wind. Now the government is covering it up, since "we" did it by blowing the stuff up. Mark my words -- about 50 years from now, when most of the GWI veterans are dead, we'll find out about the cover up, and the couple hundred that are still alive will get some compensation so we can all feel better about it.
> 
> /rant off
> 
> EDIT: Just so folks know, I have combined active and reserve duty in the Army of 19 years.


This post really hits home and is terrifying to me.

I didn't know my husband then as we have only been together for 3 years and married for nearly three months, but before GW1 he was a champion diver, swimmer and and a talented football, baseball and soccer player. 

Since the war, his energy level is in the toilet.

He has horrible digestion problems, NO energy, nerve issues in his hands and arms and a cyst in his brain.

I adore him and worry every day about his health.

The system has acknowledged his PTSD, but refuses to attribute ANY of his physical problems to the war.


----------



## Klapton

I am very sorry to hear about your husband's illness. I think I will be watching the "strait talk express" very closely as we approach this election. If John McCain has one of his town meetings within a reasonable distance from my home, I think I might try to get a chance to ask him about this, and whether he would do an REAL investigation of the matter. One would hope that of all the current candidates, McCain might actually give a crap.

EDIT: I just wanted to add a few things...

Symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) 

Sleep Disorders Dreams / Nightmares Depression or Deep Sadness Anger/Rage Alienation/Emotional Numbing (Avoiding Feelings) Isolating Yourself from Others Guilt / Survival Guilt Anxiety Intrusive Thoughts Flashbacks Hypervigilance/Hyperalertness Exaggerated Startle Reaction (Jumpiness) Difficulty Concentrating Memory Impairment Low Self-Esteem Problems with Authority Employment Difficulties Relationship Difficulties Self - Medication with Drugs and Alcohol 

My brother in law has NONE of these symptoms, yet the VA says he has PTSD.

Symptoms of Gulf War Syndrome:

Sleep Problems 
Mood Swings 
Short-Term Memory Loss 
*Chronic Fatigue *
Rashes 
*Aching Joints 
Headaches 
Abdominal Pain 
Sensitivity to Bright Light 
Blurred Vision/Loose Focus 
Diarrhea *

I put in boldface the symptoms that my brother in law DOES have.

It's just insulting and infuriating that they want to label his PHYSICAL illness as PSYCHOLOGICAL. I don't say this to diminish the very real suffering of anyone with PTSD. But when there's something wrong with your body and someone basically tells you "it's all in your head" is maddening.


----------



## Tiempo

Thanks. Hopefully one day in the not too distant future we will have some answers.

My husband either has or has had every one (except drug use) of the PTSD symptoms you listed.

Of the GWS symptoms he has 7 out of 11, so seperating them in his case could be quite difficult.


----------



## BRYAN

Faericat makes a very valid point about the combat operations in Iraq. I know truck drivers who have seen more combat than many "line troops" in this war zone. I am also in Support role, but I patrolled Sadre City in the peak of its recent unrest. MOS is not an indication the amount of action one sees. Mortars are no fun and how about them rockets? Hang in there girl, we will not let the polititions forget us or our fellow vets from other conflicts. Taji is great this time of year.....NOT!


----------



## Tiempo

BRYAN said:


> Faericat makes a very valid point about the combat operations in Iraq. I know truck drivers who have seen more combat than many "line troops" in this war zone. I am also in Support role, but I patrolled Sadre City in the peak of its recent unrest. MOS is not an indication the amount of action one sees. Mortars are no fun and how about them rockets? Hang in there girl, we will not let the polititions forget us or our fellow vets from other conflicts. Taji is great this time of year.....NOT!


Absolutely. My friend's husband is a civilian medic, he's been working in Iraq and Afghanistan for at least 3 years now.

Not a soldier, but I can only imagine what he has seen..it doesn't even bear thinking about


----------



## BuckBall

I'm a suicidologist who works with many an Armed Forces servicemen/women who deal with this dreadful side effect (putting it lightly), while also suffering from PTSD from my many tours in Kosovo, Bosnia, Sierra Leone and the first Gulf War while with the UK forces.

It's a tough struggle for many and yes, can be caused by anything traumatic in ones life, whether that be from abuse or war. However, I've also seen it in prisoners both military and civilian, and including crash victims such as plane or automobile and victims of rape, sexual assault. I could go into full detail about the why's and what fores and how comes, but then I'd be writing a book. Of course though, anything traumatic can be overcome, perhaps not entirely, but much of the higher degree will settle and calm down, and over time, small traces of it will come out over certain things. For instance, it's been almost over 8 years since I last saw battle, but anything loud like a semi engine braking, or Harley motorcycles with loud exhaust pipes send me back to a living nightmare. What I do to curb this is to live in a quiet place in the country, away from noise and the hustle and bustle. This is how one helps themselves...not giving in to their weakness, but doing things in their every day lives to lesson the triggers that cause the PTSD to spike. 

Just my $.02 worth.


----------



## Bearman405

bgak47 said:


> Hi moopups! Thanks for the link, & Thanks for starting this topic.  I thought that I had left all of this baggage behind me long ago. I spent 30yrs raising kids & making a life for my wife & my kids & myself, but since the kids have been grown & I've started getting older, I've found myself thinking more about those times. It's good to know that there are other people that think about those times without being too crazy about them.



My service time was in the late 60s.............in 1995 I had a violent situation at work and that was the straw that broke the carmel's back.

Have felt like [email protected]#t ever since. Lost family, house, pride.everything. I now spend my summers out in the bush prospecting for gold and my winters waiting form spring..............:viking:


----------



## scottydawg36

Here's a poem I wrote about PTSD...it's nice to see that others can come forward with this as well.

My goal is to move back to my rural roots once I leave the military.

Living with PTSD

I sit in darkness,
Sleep forever Eluding me.
Every morning choking down bitter pills,
So I may fit in with my contemporaries.

Shots illuminate the night sky,
Frantic calls to turn off our headlights.
Armoured guardian angels bark
Revenge onto a hilltop.

Laying on the cold steel of my truck bed,
Watching an UAV keep silent vigil.
This is the last night of me,
Forever more a leper.

Months addicted to a drug,
Most will never know.
Adrenaline coursing through my veins,
Never leaving me in peace.

The simple joys of Canadian life,
Is my enemy.
Crowds in stores, at theatres or restaurants,
Are my private hell.

Children laughing at a
Water park sickens me.
I do not see children here,
Picking through garbage to survive.

Opulence makes me angry.
Entitlement makes me angry.
Waste and greed make me angry.
Everything makes me angry.

I am not me anymore,
I am not the man I was.
Six years or six months ago.
I'm forever changing, forever evolving.

Forever evolving toward a new epoch.
Moods darkening.
There is no help for the shunned.
Leper, reject, 'you're not sick, it's in your head.

'It's in your head? It is to laugh.
Of course, it's in my head.
Just like the guilt is in my head.
Just like the self-loathing is in my head.

Who am I to suffer?
Others had it worse there.
And yet it struck me down.
I am weak.

Others will suffer in silence.
Others will fear the title.
They are kept in their own prison.
One day their fear and solitude will end.

Ending in the brilliant flash,
Of a nine in the mouth.
'I can't believe he did that, he had so much to live for.'
Will be their loved ones call.

My illness is out.
No nine for me.
I'm still a leper with no colony.
Leave me in peace and I'll bother no one, that's all I'll ever ask.


----------



## Sonshine

never mind


----------



## Sonshine

I'm searching for something I can not find. I'm searching for, peace of mind.


----------



## Phoebesmum

That is a beautiful and sad poem--I have been diagnosed with PTSD due to childhood abuse and I can tell you that NO one should have to suffer with it--I hope you find peace.


----------



## HoosierHog

i was wounded in a fire fight in iraq in 2007 and since the war has haunted me 
more chasing me every day with every breath


----------



## MissyMoo

I too have PTSD  I was diagnosed after experiencing a traumatic ordeal where a drunken mentally ill man was inside our home and tried to kill my roommate and then himself. once he pointed the gun at my roommate he told me to leave the house, I jumped on him and the gun, and fought with him over it for awhile....while my roommate left the house and went for help. I was in the house about an hour with him and had to "act" (like an actress) to keep him from killing himself as well. I did not want anyone to die....was all I could think that day. Maybe I saved 2 lives, but I lost mine that day. Now I am mentally ill and still in this same house where it all happened. still in therapy about 2 years later. still want to move from this awful place but still too poor to do so. 
I put my heart out to ALL people that have this disorder. the graphic nitemares, the sweating, the not wanting to be around people anymore or public places - even finding it hard to see most family members, crying suddenly for NO reason......etc etc. :sob:
Now I have gotten so more sensitive to others pain and every horror I see here in this country (people doing bad things to each other, and themselves).
Every day I want a normal life again, and everyday I wake up to the same screwed up version of one. :help:

I wish the best for everyone that has PTSD. 
I really do.


----------



## digApony

I have a friend who is a Veteran and said to me last week, that after 30 years he's still in the military.

I understand. I was never in the military, but I have CPTS, (Complex Post Traumatic Stress), which results from long term trauma, a series of trauma over a long period of time as opposed to single incident trauma.

I have been in therapy for 7 years now. I see an excellent psychiatrist of whom I uphold to be someone who literally saved my life.

I understand that PTSD is a living hell no matter the source of trauma. 

But I highly recommend therapy and medication. The first 5 years of therapy was the worst; nightmares, recovering and reliving forgotten memories of past trauma and feelings; and long bouts with depression.

However, these past two years I feel better than I ever have in my life. My doctor gives me medicine to sleep, for depression and for mood.

My therapy is talk therapy with a therapist who specializes in PTSD. I tried EMDR, but it really did not help. My doctor explained that EMDR works best for mild PTSD such as single incident minor trauma.

I hate to see anyone suffer in this hell. And I'm not saying that I never have relapses, but I can say that I have pretty much gotten past the hardest part.

Please seek out a good psychiatrist and a therapist that understands PTSD to be the serious disorder and the hellish black hole that it is. Stick with it, and I can assure you that it won't be easy, but it will get better.

Hang in there. And if anyone would like to talk to me by PM; to give support for each other or cry together, I would be more than happy to do so; just send me a PM anytime!

digApony


----------



## digApony

MissyMoo said:


> I too have PTSD  I was diagnosed after experiencing a traumatic ordeal where a drunken mentally ill man was inside our home and tried to kill my roommate and then himself. once he pointed the gun at my roommate he told me to leave the house, I jumped on him and the gun, and fought with him over it for awhile....while my roommate left the house and went for help. I was in the house about an hour with him and had to "act" (like an actress) to keep him from killing himself as well. I did not want anyone to die....was all I could think that day. Maybe I saved 2 lives, but I lost mine that day. Now I am mentally ill and still in this same house where it all happened. still in therapy about 2 years later. still want to move from this awful place but still too poor to do so.
> I put my heart out to ALL people that have this disorder. the graphic nitemares, the sweating, the not wanting to be around people anymore or public places - even finding it hard to see most family members, crying suddenly for NO reason......etc etc. :sob:
> Now I have gotten so more sensitive to others pain and every horror I see here in this country (people doing bad things to each other, and themselves).
> Every day I want a normal life again, and everyday I wake up to the same screwed up version of one. :help:
> 
> I wish the best for everyone that has PTSD.
> I really do.


It is too bad that you are still living in the same home where you experienced the trauma.  I think that as a result you are traumatized again and again every day of your life.

I have gotten to the point where I cannot read or watch the news, watch violent movies or read violent books.

I think I feel better that way. 

Try a journal, baby. It helped me a little.

I wish you the best and thank you.

digApony


----------



## digApony

Klapton said:


> I am very sorry to hear about your husband's illness. I think I will be watching the "strait talk express" very closely as we approach this election. If John McCain has one of his town meetings within a reasonable distance from my home, I think I might try to get a chance to ask him about this, and whether he would do an REAL investigation of the matter. One would hope that of all the current candidates, McCain might actually give a crap.
> 
> EDIT: I just wanted to add a few things...
> 
> Symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)
> 
> Sleep Disorders Dreams / Nightmares Depression or Deep Sadness Anger/Rage Alienation/Emotional Numbing (Avoiding Feelings) Isolating Yourself from Others Guilt / Survival Guilt Anxiety Intrusive Thoughts Flashbacks Hypervigilance/Hyperalertness Exaggerated Startle Reaction (Jumpiness) Difficulty Concentrating Memory Impairment Low Self-Esteem Problems with Authority Employment Difficulties Relationship Difficulties Self - Medication with Drugs and Alcohol
> 
> My brother in law has NONE of these symptoms, yet the VA says he has PTSD.
> 
> Symptoms of Gulf War Syndrome:
> 
> Sleep Problems
> Mood Swings
> Short-Term Memory Loss
> *Chronic Fatigue *
> Rashes
> *Aching Joints
> Headaches
> Abdominal Pain
> Sensitivity to Bright Light
> Blurred Vision/Loose Focus
> Diarrhea *
> 
> I put in boldface the symptoms that my brother in law DOES have.
> 
> It's just insulting and infuriating that they want to label his PHYSICAL illness as PSYCHOLOGICAL. I don't say this to diminish the very real suffering of anyone with PTSD. But when there's something wrong with your body and someone basically tells you "it's all in your head" is maddening.


I don't think the government will ever give it up; that GWS is caused by biological and chemical hazards used in the GW.

PTSD was denied and unrecognized by the government for Vietnam Vets for years. Everyone just blew them off as crazy. Then there was Agent Orange... and the result? 

My doctor told me that it was the psychiatric community that twisted the government's arm into recognizing PTSD as a real disorder... not a "syndrome" and thereby forcing the government to pay and offer treatment.

How can they say something so seriously physical as blurred vision, chronic fatigue, etc is a "syndrome"?!!! That's what gets me!

Got to get that changed.

digApony


----------



## poppyandnan

My husband is a Vietnam Vet. He has been diagnoised with PTSD. Very sad to see the one we love suffer with such horrid memories. He is now under Dr.'s care and is doing better, but the Dr. told him that the PTSD will always be there.......it never goes away. My heart goes out to each of you for whatever reason you suffer with PTSD. I pray that you will find joy in life, peace for every day, and strength to face tomorrow! God bless you all...............




AMERICA...land of the free...because of the brave!


----------



## The Tinker

I appreciate all of you posting in here but more I appreciate all of you serving the US faithfully. As a vet of Bosnia and the former Yugoslavia I never saw any action, but as the son of a Vietnam vet I'm very familiar with PTSD issues. I really think that a lot of the stuff ya'll Vietnam era vets deal with is due to the poor reception back here in the US upon your return. It's one thing to do things you don't feel right about or have questions about when you can return to a people who support you, it's something else all together to come home to a people who have no understanding of what went on and utterly fail as a thankful population. Being born in 1972, I don't have any memory of the US during the return of troops during Vietnam, but as an American let me say, "Thanks for what you did, Welcome home, and may God have mercy on the weary." I say that to all of you from my dad's generation who served and to those of you in my generation as well. You're all heroes in my book.


----------



## 10ecn

Found out the hard way, that if you are affected by this, or even suspected of it, it's best to keep it to yourself.


----------



## TxGypsy

I hope y'all don't mind my cross posting. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy has completely changed my life. 

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=411870&highlight=PTSD

Being around others with PTSD is amazingly therapeutic also. I started riding with the Patriot Guard Riders as a way to honor y'all and thank the families of vets, but I ended up getting so much out of being around PGR veterans that have PTSD also. It is incredibly comforting to be around other folks that actually understand what makes you twitch.


----------



## steadfree

Good news for those suffering with PTSD!!! I was partially diagnosed with severe depression and maybe PTSD. Because I was a firefighter when the traumatic episode occured, I was not allowed or had any connection to a PTSD event. I lived in this state of depression and avoidance for over 5 years--I was scary and didn't know it. I just dealt with it and lived a horrible environment. In 2006 I had the Post Traumatic Trigger that sent me over the edge---and because it was not a related trigger to the fire service--so many professionals were confused and misdiagnosed me with just severe depression--except one counselor who saw something and mentioned the possiblity to me..yet the reigning doctor would not accept that theory. I spent the next years searching for any professional that would be trained in PTSD for firefighters and cops---they are hard to find. 
I was on all sort of medications--trying to find the right balance. One thing to be aware is that those meds will cause weight gain--especially Abilify! Now i had more than one problem--severe depression, PTSD which cause bi-polar, etc. So spent those years using my employers insurance money looking help and not finding any. 
It wasn't until i left BCBS and had to turn to my VA benefits did I find any serious help and understanding. Meds changed, talked with counselors that saw what I was dealing with. 
I was given treatment to talk with a counselor to work with SUDS training in a one on one scenairo--because my temperment and scenairo I couldn't sit in a group setting, been there and done that, it didn't work for me. I had to face this issue HEAD ON! So the SUDS training is very difficult and very emotional but you have to have the courage and the desire to get better--there is light at the end of this tunnel. 
Since going thru a few months of weekly SUDS training I began to feel better and my SUDS became less and I started understanding the illness and I made changes to get better. Now it has been over 2 years since doing the SUDS training and my meds have been reduced, no longer on the edge of violence but a few changes in my environment but it has all been worth it. 
Ask about doing doing SUDS training and see if it is something that you want to try. 
But you have to have the courage to face your fears head on and have the desire to get better......stop dealing with the illness and start facing it is my recommendation--you can beat it. 
1st step is identifying the problem, 2nd become aware, 3rd get the desire to seek help, 
4th step is find the right help, 5th. make a plan, 6th stick to the plan and finish, 7th have the courage to get better, 7th. work at beating the issue everyday, 8th. take your meds and treatment seriously, 9th. know that this is not forever, take it in small steps rather looking at the whole problem-becomes overwhelming, 10 step is stay positive and look at your small steps of success. 

To beat PTSD takes courage and work..so take it in small steps and don't become over whelmed looking at whole problem. Be willing to make changes to your life no matter how small or large---I gave up my career, security, pension--but it was worth it and glad I did. Do not allow PTSD define who you are, you must define who you are--look to future you and what you want to be. 
Good Luck and PM me if you have questions!!!


----------



## r3bauer

Suffer from PTSD due to an injury and being unable to continue my career in the army. Been out since 96 but did not get help till 09. I never realized anything was wrong and always thought I was just an a******. My DW stuck with me throght it all and I am slowly getting back to "normal". We are not alone.


----------



## eicanfly

Wow I wrote a long reply. (plz exuse smilies...they were fun)
I also posted this on a thread about ptsd from 2003 or 2006 so if you see it twice I apologize. (NEW TO THIS SITE)

That was essential info and all people should know at least that much about ptsd.
My life was a nightmare for past 22 years (began having them at age 12 and got progressively worse as I got older even though they diagnosed me as bipolar and I'm on meds for that) until I figured out what was causing me to have severe panic attacks (not just high anxiety but full-blown, full body adrenaline overload panic reactions.) Obviously this was very debilitating and as time went on they became more frequent and longer and really severe if my bipolar meds off a little. I became afraid to do anything and started getting paranoid about even eating or bathing (thought "toxins" were driving me mad) I was almost housebound by the time my daughter was a few months away from graduating high school. I was taking a lot more meds too (I am bipolar so still need to take some)
It seemed like the panic attacks were out of the blue but when a crazy bully neighbor gre:created an ongoing abusive scary stressful situation that turned out to be one of those blessings in disguise bc it had a lot of abstract similarities to original "event".
Once ptsd was suggested the flood gates of insight opened and the panic attacks started to make sense. Once I was aware of the connections triggering them it made it possible to begin to work with each one, ask myself what is this reminding me of.
Then I could say to myself "I am SAFE. I am NOT alone. I EAT PANIC ATTACKS FOR LUNCH!!! RRRROOOOAAAAARRRRRR!!!!!" A friend, a quiet demure tiny little wisp of a woman, demonstrated this to me by flexing her biceps and roaring really loud and angrily and it made me laugh so ---- hard that I think that is why it helps and it never becomes old. She was such a vicious sight that it will stick in my brain forever I think. Don't get me wrong, it's not magic, I still get the massive adrenaline spikes when I'm triggered but I can feel it coming on so I slow down my breathing and I sit down and put my head down sort of between my knees and just sort of quietly observe what is going on in my body. I name each symptom and sensation as it flows thru me paying attn to each detail in a scientific way and avoid any thinking of death or memories or suffocation or thoughts about whatever brought it on (that comes later) by focusing really hard on "observing" my symptoms as objectively as possible, NOT subjectively. I keep repeating either out loud or to myself the mantra above picturing my friend to add a little humor. It's no picnic and the panic attacks are still about as enjoyable as a root canal w/out anesthesia BUT I haven't tried to kill myself for 4 years now.
I also can see a predictable pattern in the physical sensations and they don't last quite as long and I usually don't have multiple attacks on the same day anymore.
A quick trick when I'm in a situation where it's possible is for me to jump into a shower with cold water going full blast or a very cold pool. It stops those attacks almost instantly. Don't know why, or care, it just works, fine by me.

Here's where I take an "online" risk...I smoke a little decent pot every night, I know the grower so I'm not contributing to those bastards at the Mexican border, or any other terrorists AND I don't have to deal w/ scumbags, getting mugged or worry about toxins. It took me many years of smoking and quitting , smoking and quitting to realize it WAS helping. I felt so guilty about smoking for so long. I kept trying to quit until one day after 8 months of NOT smoking and the panic attacks being severe, daily and constant and my daughter's graduation was coming up and I knew I wouldn't be able to go bc of my condition.
Also my dr was starting to try to put me in a group home.
There's no way I was giving everything up that made life worth living (my complete freedom, my self esteem, my gardens, my animals) and moving into a ---- group home.
At the time I couldn't drive anymore so my Dad was with me when we drove home from my dr and I said "Dad, you know I will never go into a group home, right? I will kill myself first or AFTER. But I will NEVER live like that, w/out my freedom and in a mental group home." I also wanted to attend my daughter's graduation. That was paramount. So I started bawling and said I gotta try smoking the pot and see if it helps bc it was my last chance. I didn't want to bc I felt like a loser and not in control of my own life/ideals and I was proud of the fact I had POWERED thru 8 long miserable months but it was time to do whatever necessary. My dad said "you need to see if it will help honey." It didn't help overnight but each day was a little better. Within 2 weeks I was able to attend my daughter's graduation (NOT stoned, I usually just smoke before bed) although I was shaky and exhausted after, I WENT!!! When I saw the dr I again I drove myself but my Dad met me there. He was convinced and I was convinced and thankfully my dr. is convinced but keeps that a secret. She said "la-la-la, I can't hear you....but whatever you are doing keep doing it!"
I don't need to smoke during the day, just at night and it's like prophylactic medicine. When I experimented w/ quitting (to make sure it really was the pot helping) w/in a few weeks the panic attacks would be back and getting worse and longer every day. Since I know from experience when I was off it for 8 months, being bull-headed about NOT smoking it, I know that waiting for it to get better prob isn't gonna pan out. 
Even w/ the pot helping so much I still get them, sometimes even monster ones, but it's a lot less scary and I can wait it out now and bc I'm not as scared and confused about WHY it's happening and/or MENTALLY panicking they go away in about 20 minutes and I can actually look forward to each set of symptoms bc they come in a distinct pattern and it's like watching a clock ticking by so I can tell when the end is around the corner. I used to get them like labor pains. One after the other all day, all night for weeks at a time. Hence the suicide attempts up till 4 years ago. My life is much better now, no longer a hermit, inching my way back into being self-sufficient, and I have friends I go out and do things with. Amazing.
:hammer:If I hadn't had that person bugging the ---- out of me during the neighbor's bullying, "Come on Eileen this HAS to remind you of something bc your reaction is so massive and the situation does not warrant it." over and over the light would have never gone on in my head.
Oh also DO be careful of otc medications (actually ANY meds) and additives and preservatives in food and beauty supplies. Learning about things to avoid has helped me increase my tolerance to triggers. (so did therapy once I finally found someone who knew what the hell they were doing AND EFT helps me with milder reactions) In my case, if I drink a glass of Hawaiian Punch I'm gonna be awfully unhappy for about 24 hours and God help me if I run into a "trigger"! So that part of it was legit also. Google neurotoxins in food and it will scare the pants off you but just start by paying attn to your body and eliminate one or two things at a time. I suggest artificial sweeteners to be at top of list and then food coloring...2 biggest and most prevalent culprits and much of it banned in all of the other developed nations. The changes don't happen overnight but subtly, over time. One day I thought "When did I become able to do math in my head again?!" Yeah, like that Life is bearable now, and sometimes...even GOOD.:icecream:


----------



## Laura Zone 5

10ecn said:


> Found out the hard way, that if you are affected by this, or even suspected of it, it's best to keep it to yourself.


This is my greatest fear.......


----------



## credee

I would look for an individual counselor with whom I had good rapport. It may be a pastor or priest, or it might even be "just" another vet, or a local cop. Someone with some experience and training at how to work with you. I got further with a guy in a month than with a pretty young lady in 6 months,for instance. I enjoyed chatting with her every week, but nothing changed. The guy agreed with me enough to make me open up more, yet suggested some things that helped


----------



## KathleenElsie

I have two wonderful VA mental health people. One is a MD and the other is a PHD. Since my problems started when I was raped in the service many years ago, I now understand my triggers better. Some of the family members do not understand why I am like I am. I must say I like my animals better then most humans.


----------



## bibdad3

Talk about your situation with people. Don't hold it in because then you give it power. When you talk about it a lot it starts to lose its power. The other thing I did was to start making goals. My first goal was to leave the house! Now I can do that with stress. Oh you have to reward yourself when you get those goals too. Mine is ice cream, I love it!!! Just stay away from alcohol because it will just spin you out soon and later! Trust me I know I made that mistake too!


----------



## bajiay

The tapping on the face method that someone mentioned early is called EFT which stands for Emotional Freedom Technique. EDMR is also a great helper with flashbacks and such as someone mentioned before.

My daughter has PTSD from many terrors that she has lived through. These things have helped her.


----------



## Tango

I saw this thread from the main page. Reading through the posts, I stumbled across a lot of familiar territory. I've known about ptsd for years now and since I first heard of it, something clicked into place for me, years before I remembered the traumatic event of my early childhood. I was sexually and viciously molested in a daycare when I was 2 or 3. I don't remember the age but I have remembered the horrible events and the morning I refused to go back in when my mother knew something was wrong. I see how this event has screwed up my life and know how it is not possible to ever correct the damage I have caused in return, before I knew what was going on. This event has affected every area of my being for 47 years: alcohol abuse, anger, depression, self hatred, delusions about people, severe distrust, isolation... It is a miracle that I raised two healthy, way- more -normal- than -me children. It was only after they left home that the vacuum filled with "me and my issues." And trying to find happiness externally and failing.

I remembered the event three years ago but had long, long suspected it, even as early as adolescence. I was in counseling for tangential issues and medication for tangential issues and nothing worked, not even remembering - though remembering put in one little important piece of the puzzle which has been my life. _There is a cause._ Knowing this allows for things to slow down. I'm no longer driven by a mysterious affliction. I can separate the real from the imagined and slowly make informed decisions about my current situations. 

It has opened up a pathway of compassion for others. We never really know how difficult others lives have been. It helps me to implement the "Golden Rule."If I am still selfish or ego-centered it is because of the long bad habit of protecting myself at all costs but it is not so automatic anymore.The curtain has lifted. I guess it will takes years to rewire a lot of the habitual responses.
Where one is on the journey of recovery is very precious. and fragile. It takes a lot of courage to open back up when one has closed the doors to something atrocious and menacing. I couldn't understand what I understand now just one year ago. No one can take the place of one's own higher self accepting and moving on to pick up the rubble of a lifetime. It is one piece of rubble at a time. On that journey, that I find myself in a trashed landscape seems kind of fitting because I went back to the land to actually pick up the trash in my own life and put it where it actually belongs. Perhaps it is a stroke of luck that external trash keeps me focused on internal trash...
Don't give up on yourselves. Don't look for solutions and distractions. It is hard work but it is not impossible work. Consider it the opportunity of a lifetime. We can't change the past but we can change. It is an illness, it is not you. Very many blessings to all of you affected and living with those affected. And to those of you who caused the affllctions, I know you are also affected and wish you the same.


----------



## KathleenElsie

credee said:


> I would look for an individual counselor with whom I had good rapport. It may be a pastor or priest, or it might even be "just" another vet, or a local cop. Someone with some experience and training at how to work with you. I got further with a guy in a month than with a pretty young lady in 6 months,for instance. I enjoyed chatting with her every week, but nothing changed. The guy agreed with me enough to make me open up more, yet suggested some things that helped


My trusted counselor is no longer in the VA system. Her replacement is nice. Not sure how this will go. Moving from a PHD to a Social Worker and the huge difference in training.
All the groups near me are male or mixed. Just can not do this yet.


----------



## Marthas_minis

Stress management is key. I can't recommend meditation & Cognitive Behavioral Therapy enough. 

Also, family therapy if you are married and/or have a family. Sadly, we're not the only ones who get the pleasure of dealing with the episodes & anxiety. It helps them understand what exactly we are dealing with. 

My super logical DH has been the best person to help when I am trapped in that "fight or flight" momentum now that he knows (at least the "mechanics" of how PTSD works) what's going on in my head. He "logics" me out of the scary places or even just the super-TypeA perfectionist Martha if it manages to get past my fail safes. 

4 years med free & although I still have the occasional (rare) panic attack; they are more or less under control. I actively (or proactively) fight it everyday. I also know that I won't ever be "cured" because the weirdest things set it off but usually stressful situ. It is manageable.


----------



## FireMaker

What works for one does not necessarily work for another. Our PTSD experiences are unique. How we have interpreted the incident(s) varies as much between incidents as it does between people. 

My Response got worse through my career (LEO). I tried to share what happened to me with recruits in an effort to "inoculate". At least give them things to prep their brain. My wife and child have been an unbelievable support.

The turning point was last year while dancing at one of our regular powwows. I had an interesting experience that blew me away. Told my wife and she thought I was nuts. That evening at Grand Entry she also had an interesting experience, though different. Needless to say, this was a turning point in how I responded to an incident from 20 yrs ago. While it will always be in my mind, I can now handle it.


----------



## WIfarmboy

@FireMaker I handle mine with woodworking and with my Harley. On occasion, a decent scotch! 2 tours to Afghanistan and 5 years on the job as LEO.


----------



## jmorri0322

The biggest thing you can do is to accept that this is normal. You are not "crazy", you're not "broken" or anything worse! Our brain has its own way of dealing with intense, trauma. You have to experiment with different things to find what works for you and accept that you may need medication for a while, however be very weary of anyone recommending narcotics or other mind numbing meds. These will only mask things for a short while and can become extremely destructive. Therapy works as long as you are open and accepting. I agree 100% with the others who have stated the importance of having a professional relationship with your counselor. It will not work without one. I know others who have used marijuana like eicanfly with positive results as well. I use a variety of things from meditation ( which I was not "into" until I opened up as I was at bottom and had to find ways to cope), gardening, farming/livestock and most importantly my faith. I could not do "this" on my own. When I finally broke down and asked for His forgiveness and His help, I finally started making real progress. Just try it, you'll be thankful you did.


----------



## big rockpile

I had PTSD and they put me on Medication it helped but felt much better when I was off it.

Thing is after I kept very busy. Now I'm down unable to do much and find I have too much time to myself. The other day my wife basically knocked the crap out of me and put my mind back on track.

Oh was seeing a Counselor and told them in not a nice way they were full of it.

I know it isn't for all but I found looking to the Lord helps me.

big rockpile


----------



## RonM

I think a relationship with the Lord is good for everyone, I wish I had a better relationship....


----------



## ergo

there's numerous helpful VA lawyer vids on YT. Chis Attig is one. Hill and Ponton is another. Perkins Studdard is another.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

ergo said:


> there's numerous helpful VA lawyer vids on YT


I bet there are even some telling how to stop being a troll.
https://search.aol.com/aol/video;_y...--?q=how+to+stop+being+a+troll&v_t=loki-tb-sb


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

It was strange to see a Moopups thread from long ago.


----------



## ergo

Bearfootfarm said:


> I bet there are even some telling how to stop being a troll.
> https://search.aol.com/aol/video;_y...--?q=how+to+stop+being+a+troll&v_t=loki-tb-sb


probably none about how to stop being a sanctimonius ahole, tho.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

ergo said:


> probably none about how to stop being a sanctimonius ahole, tho.


No, you'll suffer from that affliction forever. 
(Or until you're banned again)


----------



## Mistoftime

moopups said:


> PTSD, suffered mostly by combat veterans is not limited to them, others can have it also via tragic accidents, abnormal stress, any moment of terror. Part of it is a brain chemical inbalance, the first step on the path back is found at: mhsanctuary.com Its a long read but about 2/3rd ways down there is an OIC moment. The moment that can change your life for the better. Take the first step, I did and I am getting so sane its scarry.


Hi, Moopups, As a former Correctional Officer I can relate that PTSD not only affects Combat veterans but also many other professional occupations as well.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

This was an old thread. Unfortunately, the new forum software causes old thread to appear active.

Moopups passed away a few years ago.


----------

