# The US military has officially published three UFO videos. Why doesn't anybody seem to care?



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

On April 27, 2020, the US Department of Defense issued a public statement authorizing the release of three "UFO" videos taken by US Navy pilots.

The footage appears to depict airborne, heat-emitting objects with no visible wings, fuselage or exhaust, performing aerodynamically in ways that no known aircraft can achieve. The DoD doesn't use the terms "unidentified flying object" or "UFO" but does clearly state "the aerial phenomena observed in the videos remain characterized as 'unidentified.'"

Thoughts about what UFOs are vary widely—from illusions to alien spacecraft. However, a workable, conservative definition is: "intelligently-controlled airborne objects not apparently made by humans."









The US military has officially published three UFO videos. Why doesn't anybody seem to care?


On April 27, 2020, the US Department of Defense issued a public statement authorizing the release of three "UFO" videos taken by US Navy pilots.




phys.org


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## Chinclub (Mar 2, 2005)

That is very interesting. I would love to see those videos. I have a hard time believing that with a universe this big we would be the only life out there.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Chinclub said:


> That is very interesting. I would love to see those videos. I have a hard time believing that with a universe this big we would be the only life out there.


The article is two steps away from the videos. Here





Documents | NAVAIR - FOIA







www.navair.navy.mil


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I suppose you would have to consider why God created a universe so big and yet empty.
My scientific studies and decades long unpaid research (I'm still waiting on my government funding and grants) states with no uncertain doubt we are the only life massed produced since Eden closed.
Speculating about life other than man is a great hobby but I prefer watching Wheel of Fortune and my odds of success are better.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> watching Wheel of Fortune


YouTube has some very funny clips of Family Feud


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> I suppose you would have to consider why God created a universe so big and yet empty.
> My scientific studies and decades long unpaid research (I'm still waiting on my government funding and grants) states with no uncertain doubt we are the only life massed produced since Eden closed.
> Speculating about life other than man is a great hobby but I prefer watching Wheel of Fortune and my odds of success are better.


If the mysteries of the universe were weighed on a scale, the side holding the things we do not know would far out weigh the things we truly know and understand


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Chinclub said:


> That is very interesting. I would love to see those videos. I have a hard time believing that with a universe this big we would be the only life out there.


Same here. But some people will dismiss mountains of evidence out of hand.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

GTX63 said:


> My scientific studies and decades long unpaid research (I'm still waiting on my government funding and grants) states with no uncertain doubt we are the only life massed produced since Eden closed.


Love to see your research.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> If the mysteries of the universe were weighed on a scale, the side holding the things we do not know would far out weigh the things we truly know and understand
> 
> View attachment 94240



I remain mostly philosophical over the topic because our minds don't have the capacity nor were they designed to comprehend the things above us.
I think of it about the same as the barbershop discussions over winning the lottery.
So, knowing what I know I would ask, why seek water when you are sitting in the fountainhead?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

kinderfeld said:


> Love to see your research.


I have it somewhere in my reel to reel homemovies vacation slides. If you are interested in about 18 hours of Salina Kansas, Llincoln Nebraska and Cairo Illinois circa 1969 I should have my studies sandwiched in there.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> our minds don't have the capacity


The thing our mind does seem to have in abundance is wonder and curiosity. That human trait is what makes us reach, and reach leads to grasp.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

We are a civilization that is drowning in information while starving for wisdom.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> The thing our mind does seem to have in abundance is wonder and curiosity. That human trait is what makes us reach, and reach leads to grasp.


My dog is curious. I cannot teach him to understand Bach. He never will. He hasn't that capacity. He hasn't the soul. But he will still sniff around at most anything that interests him.
I am not a dog, but the analogy has merit.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> We are a civilization that is drowning in information while starving for wisdom.


That is very true. It seems also that our ability and right to question is being squelched.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> My dog is curious. I cannot teach him to understand Bach. He never will. He hasn't that capacity. He hasn't the soul. But he will still sniff around at most anything that interests him.
> I am not a dog, but the analogy has merit.


Do you beat your dog?


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## Bront (Jan 26, 2021)

HDRider said:


> On April 27, 2020, the US Department of Defense issued a public statement authorizing the release of three "UFO" videos taken by US Navy pilots.
> 
> The footage appears to depict airborne, heat-emitting objects with no visible wings, fuselage or exhaust, performing aerodynamically in ways that no known aircraft can achieve. The DoD doesn't use the terms "unidentified flying object" or "UFO" but does clearly state "the aerial phenomena observed in the videos remain characterized as 'unidentified.'"
> 
> ...


Ever watch drone races? The guys wear virtual goggles hooked up to their drone. These guys build

their own...and boy do they fly fast and are very agile. I think thats what the videos are showing...


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> Do you beat your dog?


The chickens run to me every morning for food. Nothing more.
My dogs run to me every day for affection. Nothing more.

If you knew of another world of beings that killed eachother for gain, murdered their offspring for convenience, enslaved and ruled and thrived on treachery and pain, would you be interested in sending a shuttle of glad handers to welcome them over for conversation?
Even my dog would stay in his hut.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I have a list of folks that I would send in the welcoming committee.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I was looking for a different clip, but this one is very well done, and from a film that I haven’t seen.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Not care?

It's not on their radar.....


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Its a wag the dog event. Government always does a hay look over here when they want us to not see what they are doing.
Problem is with the internet most people have been aware of ufos for a long time and know where to see info.


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## Gayle in KY (May 13, 2002)

If I want to see UFOs, all I have to do is go out in my yard at night. There's dozens of them every night, doing all sorts of strange moves. Sometimes, the move is that they don't move, just hover. Seems like everyone around here has seen them, yet hardly anyone talks about it. 

I've seen them during the day, too, just not as many at once.


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

I don't care because I grew up in NM not all that far from the Roswell incident, or from White Sands Missile Range.

I know that the Range had chimps and were doing space tests. Not hard to figure that they simply had a top secret shot with chimps go astray. They likely gathered the chimps in silver space suits (gray aliens?) and let the story spin to keep it secret during the cold war. Now they likely stay mum because it is a good money maker for the region.

In the sixties I remember a young girl outside playing in the evening in northern NM who was badly burned by a "UFO." Only later it turned out to be the lunar lander being tested and she happened to be under it. Once it wasn't a secret machine they fessed up if memory serves me.

Now personally, I see no evidence of life in the universe other than us, but hold it could be possible. I also believe in angels and demons and maybe that explains some things.

But mostly I believe our governments on this earth test a lot of stuff and just do not want everyone (like our enemies) to know about them.

A good campfire yarn beats a ton of explanations any day.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Why should I worry or think about something I have no control of. I got plenty of things that I do have some control of to think about. AND, The other day, the US bombed a hooligan hideout in Syria cause the hooligans had bombed an area where we were. IF we had/could mount the same response to that object, and we, this earth was the size of Syria, and whoever had sent it was a thousand times the size of earth, wouldnt you think they would do the same in retalitation?


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

When I worked at Macys in Owasso Okla, coming home I had to cross a causeway? in the middle thereof of Ollogah Lake. For around a week, when I got on that causeway, I was in perfect alignment with a rather big ball. IF I heald a pea seed at arms length against/beside it, I think the seed would be a bit smaller. Later, I saw it on the E side of Owasso once.. The other was around 30 miles NW of Owasso It never moved that I could tell while watching it.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

HDRider said:


> On April 27, 2020, the US Department of Defense issued a public statement authorizing the release of three "UFO" videos taken by US Navy pilots.
> 
> The footage appears to depict airborne, heat-emitting objects with no visible wings, fuselage or exhaust, performing aerodynamically in ways that no known aircraft can achieve. The DoD doesn't use the terms "unidentified flying object" or "UFO" but does clearly state "the aerial phenomena observed in the videos remain characterized as 'unidentified.'"
> 
> ...


A few years ago, like within the last 5 years, a video was circulated on the internet and on the evening news showing a large bird of prey swooping down and picking up a child from a city part and then flying off with the child.

!!Everyone got into a panic!!

Then it was revealed that the video was the work of some students, I think they were in Montreal, and the video was 100% fake.

So I don't put my trust any more in 99.99999% of the crap that's out there. It usually turns out to be pure BS in the long run.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

FarmboyBill said:


> When I worked at Macys in Owasso Okla, coming home I had to cross a causeway? in the middle thereof of Ollogah Lake. For around a week, when I got on that causeway, I was in perfect alignment with a rather big ball. IF I heald a pea seed at arms length against/beside it, I think the seed would be a bit smaller. Later, I saw it on the E side of Owasso once.. The other was around 30 miles NW of Owasso It never moved that I could tell while watching it.


Now why would space aliens want to send balls smaller than pea seeds here?...or did I miss something in that story?

I once saw a Monarch butterfly lying on the sidewalk. I figured it was tired from it's long trip here from Mexico....But then I realized it wasn't a butterfly at all, but actually a potato chip....Now, how did a potato chip get all the way up here from Mexico?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Littering illegals?


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

This is why hallucinogenic drugs are illegal. Eat wholesome foods, work hard, and be happy in your work.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

_"I fear," said Holmes, "that if the matter is beyond humanity it is certainly beyond me. Yet we must exhaust all natural explanations before we fall back upon such a theory as this._ --The Adventure of the Devil's Foot
The Project Gutenberg E-text of The Adventure of the Devil's Foot, by Arthur Conan Doyle


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Maybe no one is interested because the people who believe don't need govt reinforcement and those who don't believe look at the videos as more govt waste.


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## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

the truth is out there 

Peace,
Kyrie, Tao Blue SD AKC CGC CGCA CGCU TKN PAT, Deja Blue SD AKC CGC CGCU TKN PAT


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## Gayle in KY (May 13, 2002)

Danaus29 said:


> Maybe no one is interested because the people who believe don't need govt reinforcement and those who don't believe look at the videos as more govt waste.


That may be the most profound statement I've read in months!


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

GTX63 said:


> The chickens run to me every morning for food. Nothing more.
> My dogs run to me every day for affection. Nothing more.
> 
> If you knew of another world of beings that killed eachother for gain, murdered their offspring for convenience, enslaved and ruled and thrived on treachery and pain, would you be interested in sending a shuttle of glad handers to welcome them over for conversation?
> Even my dog would stay in his hut.


They have been here, and will be here again. To serve man is in their interest. 











To Serve Man (The Twilight Zone) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Max Overhead (Feb 22, 2021)

I talked to an old guy that was in the navy around the time of Vietnam. I actually drank with him on a number of occasions. He knew air force guys that saw this kind of stuff when in the air. Some were badly burned on the side of their face which the craft in question showed up on, while they were flying. Then debriefing, then injunction to not speak about it. He apparently also worked for a giant trucking company ran by aliens (his words, not mine). They didn't sleep, they didn't laugh, they didn't dance, they didn't understand music, etc. He also talked about sea monsters, one sheared the propeller on an aircraft carrier, blood filled the water, and those blades are gigantic. One looked like a giant perch, it lifted a dock and rolled its white eye. All of it is fantastic, and all of it is beside the point. I don't trust this or any government to come clean with us on anything. If they are planting UFO seeds now, it's probably for a Project Blue Beam, but I doubt very seriously it has anything to do with Truth. Any UFO is most likely technology sequestered by one or another government of this fallen Earth. Anti-gravity drives and what-not.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

If you pay attention to the moons around 3rd Beta Reticuli you will know when our occupation is imminent. Those aren't shooting stars but booster rockets from troop transports. Assimilation has been occurring since 1968 and I calculate, based on the last election, there are only 75-80 million of us left. Look for the extra eyelid held open with thick contacts.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Max Overhead said:


> I talked to an old guy that was in the navy around the time of Vietnam. I actually drank with him on a number of occasions. He knew air force guys that saw this kind of stuff when in the air. Some were badly burned on the side of their face which the craft in question showed up on, while they were flying. Then debriefing, then injunction to not speak about it. He apparently also worked for a giant trucking company ran by aliens (his words, not mine). They didn't sleep, they didn't laugh, they didn't dance, they didn't understand music, etc. He also talked about sea monsters, one sheared the propeller on an aircraft carrier, blood filled the water, and those blades are gigantic. One looked like a giant perch, it lifted a dock and rolled its white eye. All of it is fantastic, and all of it is beside the point. I don't trust this or any government to come clean with us on anything. If they are planting UFO seeds now, it's probably for a Project Blue Beam, but I doubt very seriously it has anything to do with Truth. Any UFO is most likely technology sequestered by one or another government of this fallen Earth. Anti-gravity drives and what-not.


Exactly how much were you guys drinking?

It should be noted that in a survey done around 1980, 55% of respondents supported Fed gov aid to the Rebels of Alpha Centauri. Facts an logic rarely interfere with the formation of opinions.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Next year the aliens will be making the rounds of the talk shows. That is if they have had their shots.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> Next year the aliens will be making the rounds of the talk shows. That is if they have had their shots.


I thought they were already


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

I think no one seems to care simply because they don't. It's hard to care about something that may or may not be a real issue when we are constantly being bombarded by issues that we _know_ are real.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

HDRider said:


> On April 27, 2020, the US Department of Defense issued a public statement authorizing the release of three "UFO" videos taken by US Navy pilots.
> 
> The footage appears to depict airborne, heat-emitting objects with no visible wings, fuselage or exhaust, performing aerodynamically in ways that no known aircraft can achieve. The DoD doesn't use the terms "unidentified flying object" or "UFO" but does clearly state "the aerial phenomena observed in the videos remain characterized as 'unidentified.'"
> 
> ...


I have watched them. They are certainly interesting.

No idea what they are or where or when they are from.

Hopefully more information will be available.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Chinclub said:


> That is very interesting. I would love to see those videos. I have a hard time believing that with a universe this big we would be the only life out there.


I personally believe there is other life out there. But don't know if they could travel here.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Being a Bible student, I am sure they are real because Ezekiel saw them on 2 occasions and describes them quite well for someone who lived in that time. But I do not believe they are from other planets but are from another dimension.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

poppy said:


> Being a Bible student, I am sure they are real because Ezekiel saw them on 2 occasions and describes them quite well for someone who lived in that time. But I do not believe they are from other planets but are from another dimension.


Didn't he also see men each with four faces, each of a different creature, and each having four wings?


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

no tellin what you'd see after a day in the desert chewin on roots. Freud would sure have a field day with Ezekiel on his couch. ~Georgia


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I think Ezekiel may be a bit much for the likes of Freud.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

GTX63 said:


> I think Ezekiel may be a bit much for the likes of Freud.


Or vice versa


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

todd_xxxx said:


> Didn't he also see men each with four faces, each of a different creature, and each having four wings?


They were vehicles that came out of a larger vehicle. The faces of the creatures line up perfectly with the animals assigned to the tribes of Israel. We have to remember Ezekiel never saw anything fly but a bird and they have wings. He says the wings came down when the craft landed so they were likely landing gear. He said the vehicle was the color of polished bronze and its appearance was like a wheel within a wheel (circular) with a smaller vehicle inside. He also said it went on all four sides. The only wheels he ever saw were on an oxcart which run on the rim but these could move on the rim or on their side. It also 'had eyes round about' and he could see people in there. A good description of windows or portholes. I like the way he said they didn't look where they went but could move any direction or up and down. That was far different than anything he had seen like a donkey or horse where the rider pulls the reigns and the horse looks left and then turns left. He also noted that when the wheel went up, the people in it also went up. Wonder what people in those days would think if they could see today's airplanes and helicopters.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

todd_xxxx said:


> Or vice versa


Ezekiel has yet to be disproven, so there is that.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

GTX63 said:


> Ezekiel has yet to be disproven, so there is that.


No one has to disprove Ezekiel. People that believe it need to prove it. Many claims can't be disproven. That doesn't make them true. I can claim that I have an invisible pet monkey that flies around doing my bidding. I can say to you "No one has disproven it yet.", and you know what? That's absolutely true, no one has disproven it, and furthermore, it's impossible to disprove. That doesn't matter though, no one should have to disprove it. If I make that claim, the onus is on me to prove it, not on someone else to disprove it.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

todd_xxxx said:


> People that believe it need to prove it


Let people have their faith.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

HDRider said:


> Let people have their faith.


People are welcome to believe whatever they like, but it goes right back to the topic at hand. Many people aren't going to believe in UFO's, and I believe it is for two reasons. The first I already gave. People simply don't care about the subject because there are more pressing issues in their lives. The other is because they simply haven't seen any evidence compelling enough to believe it. I feel that way about UFO's, bigfoot, religion, and any number of other things. I don't care who believes what, I just haven't seen any evidence to support it. I do care when someone states something as fact, and then "proves" it is fact because no one can disprove it.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Anyone that doesn't believe in UFO's is over confident in their own intellect. A UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object. If one believes all flying objects can be identified, they are truly arrogant or ignorant or likely both.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Hiro said:


> Anyone that doesn't believe in UFO's is over confident in their own intellect. A UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object. If one believes all flying objects can be identified, they are truly arrogant or ignorant or likely both.


Pretty certain most people know what UFO stands for, and pretty certain that you know when people say UFO in common language that they mean space ships that aliens are navigating.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

todd_xxxx said:


> No one has to disprove Ezekiel. People that believe it need to prove it. Many claims can't be disproven. That doesn't make them true. I can claim that I have an invisible pet monkey that flies around doing my bidding. I can say to you "No one has disproven it yet.", and you know what? That's absolutely true, no one has disproven it, and furthermore, it's impossible to disprove. That doesn't matter though, no one should have to disprove it. If I make that claim, the onus is on me to prove it, not on someone else to disprove it.



I don't think it is rational to think someone thousands of years ago would coincidentally describe something many people are seeing today but we still don't understand.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

poppy said:


> I don't think it is rational to think someone thousands of years ago would coincidentally describe something many people are seeing today but we still don't understand.


I think if someone reads a vague enough description of something, it isn't hard to interpret it into anything you like,especially if your entire world view is riding on it turning out a certain way.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

todd_xxxx said:


> Pretty certain most people know what UFO stands for, and pretty certain that you know when people say UFO in common language that they mean space ships that aliens are navigating.


Redirect as you wish. When someone put's UFO's and bigfoot in the same category, well.......I am not sure they know what a UFO is or are just playing loose and fast with language to their own ends.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Hiro said:


> Anyone that doesn't believe in UFO's is over confident in their own intellect. A UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object. If one believes all flying objects can be identified, they are truly arrogant or ignorant or likely both.


The government doesn't seem to be concerned enough to do anymore than leak photos that could still fit on a floppy disc. Yet if it had a Red Star or a Sickle on the wing I wonder if they would just marvel from their office window.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

todd_xxxx said:


> I think if someone reads a vague enough description of something, it isn't hard to interpret it into anything you like,especially if your entire world view is riding on it turning out a certain way.


That sounds like about any cable news station out there today; pick your poison.
Only speaking for myself, my world view rests on what a different guy said and did about 600 years later. Buzi's kid can't do a thing for me.
BTW, my father in law's favorite Christmas prayer was Ezekiel 25v17.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Hiro said:


> Redirect as you wish. When someone put's UFO's and bigfoot in the same category, well.......I am not sure they know what a UFO is or are just playing loose and fast with language to their own ends.


So, you disagree that most people know what UFO stands for, or you disagree that when most people say UFO they are taking about an alien spacecraft? As far as putting them in the same category, the context is important. I said that people that don't believe in either of those things simply haven't seen evidence that convinced them. I'd love to hear your alternative theory.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, 
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. 
* - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio *


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Take me away Calgon!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

US intelligence officials have evidence that UFO sightings have lead to adverse health effects like radiation burns, paralysis and even brain damage, according to a newly released report from a shadowy Pentagon program that closed in 2012. 

The study classifies different types of encounters with unidentified objects, including ones accompanied by sightings of ghosts, yetis or spirits and others that result in injury, death and even 'permanent healing.' 









Pentagon says UFOs have left people with radiation burns, brain damage


The study classifies different types of encounters, including ones accompanied by ghosts, yetis or spirits and others that result in injury, death or 'permanent healing.'




www.dailymail.co.uk


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## Chief50 (10 mo ago)

I have seen a UFO. Didn't know what it was at the time. Still don't know what it was. I didn't tell very many people at the time. That happened many years ago. I recently read some about UFOs. People described the same thing happening to them like it happened to me. Was talking to my brother later and he described the same thing happening to him.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

GTX63 said:


> The chickens run to me every morning for food. Nothing more.
> My dogs run to me every day for affection. Nothing more.
> 
> If you knew of another world of beings that killed eachother for gain, murdered their offspring for convenience, enslaved and ruled and thrived on treachery and pain, would you be interested in sending a shuttle of glad handers to welcome them over for conversation?
> Even my dog would stay in his hut.


I wouldn't welcome religious zealots over to my house either, only sane people are welcome here.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

I never waste time with discussions like this...It's like arguing over the details of the floor plan of Santa's toy shop at the North Pole.

But let me ask this of the Believers-- Let's suppose The Aliens DO exist, and that they have overcome all the problems that we would face in terms of technology and the logisitics of travel over distances measurted in light years---

How would they find us?

Do you have any idea how large the empthy space in The Universe is and how small we are?...It would be harder to find us than to find a small cork randomly dropped in the junction of the Indian, Southern and Pacific Oceans.

Put it in perspective-- If the Sun were the size of a basketball, then Pluto would be a BB 3/5ths of a mile away-- and astronomically soeaking, that's a close neighbor....Could you find a BB tossed out in the grass evenif you knew for sure it was somewhere on a circle 3000ft from your basketball?...

Now what if we scattered 10 basketballs over North America and told you MAYBE there's a BB somewhere near one of those basketballs--Would you even bother to start looking? How would you even fnd the basketballs, let alone the BB?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Well Doc, I am a believer, but not of aliens. I agree with you.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doc- said:


> I never waste time with discussions like this...It's like arguing over the details of the floor plan of Santa's toy shop at the North Pole.
> 
> But let me ask this of the Believers-- Let's suppose The Aliens DO exist, and that they have overcome all the problems that we would face in terms of technology and the logisitics of travel over distances measurted in light years---
> 
> ...


Doc, I like you you. You are a smart guy. But there is a certain level of arrogance in one that dismisses everything except what they "know" to exist. 

Since the dawn of time things have been "discovered" that where there all along.

You can no more say with certainty extra terrestrial don't exist, than I can say they do. The big difference between you and I is, I can say I don't know.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

HDRider said:


> Doc, I like you you. You are a smart guy. But there is a certain level of arrogance in one that dismisses everything except what they "know" to exist.
> 
> Since the dawn of time things have been "discovered" that where there all along.
> 
> You can no more say with certainty extra terrestrial don't exist, than I can say they do. The big difference between you and I is, I can say I don't know.


I didn't say aliens don't exist--In fact, their existence is one of the few things I'm absolutely (mathematicaly speaking) sure of--Practically every star we view has planets, and if even one in 1000 of those stars have one planet with conditions favorable to life and if even one in 1000 of those favorabe planets do have life and only 1 in 1000 with life have intelligent life, then there must be many, many planets with intelligent life in the universe--

10^16 x 10^-3 x 10^-3 x 10^-3 = 100,000 planets with intelligent life-- and that's if there are only 1 Quadrillion stars. There's probably more....That also translates to about 10 -50 just in our galaxy.

How easy is it for life to start? Well our planet is 4 billion yrs old, and it only took 1/2 billion yrs for it to cool off and render life. It must be pretty easy.

Light travels at roughly 700 million miles an hr and there are almost 9000 hrs in a year, so a light year is about 6 billion miles long. The space involved in terms of findiing a lost object in space is not measured in miles, but in cubic miles-- There are 200 billion billion billion cu miles in just one cu light year....I can't visualize that. It's too big to appreciate in terms of our Earthly experience.

They're out there for sure, but the possibility of finding us by accident is too remote. The space involved is nowhere near the small distances involved in the AZ desert-- What are the chances that you just wander off there and happen to bump into The Lost Dutchman Mine? Why would you bother wandering off aimlessly into the desert?

Are they smart enough to solve the problems of relativisitic traavel, but dumb enough to just wander off?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doc- said:


> Why would you bother wandering off


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Columbus knew The New World was there. The Vikings had been visitng regularly for 700 yrs by 1492. Columbus also knew where China was. He just didn't know that Central & South America blocked 7000 miles of his intended path...Even The Romans knew the world was round. Read Pliny.

Where are The Aliens headed that they shouod happen to bump into our puny little planet accidently?

While we can't say the the probability value (p) of finding us is "0" (impossibility), it's value approaches 0 so closely that it is 0 for practical purposes.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

doc- said:


> Light travels at roughly 700 million miles an hr and there are almost 9000 hrs in a year, so a light year is about 6 billion miles long. The space involved in terms of findiing a lost object in space is not measured in miles, but in cubic miles-- There are 200 billion billion billion cu miles in just one cu light year....I can't visualize that. It's too big to appreciate in terms of our Earthly experience.
> 
> They're out there for sure, but the possibility of finding us by accident is too remote. The space involved is nowhere near the small distances involved in the AZ desert-- What are the chances that you just wander off there and happen to bump into The Lost Dutchman Mine? Why would you bother wandering off aimlessly into the desert?
> 
> Are they smart enough to solve the problems of relativisitic traavel, but dumb enough to just wander off?


I don’t have an opinion on whether there is alien life or whether it has found us because I just don’t know enough. Just as there are mathematical arguments for both questions’ affirmation, there are mathematical arguments for their unlikelihood.

I do think that your two analogies for the vastness of space are a bit tilted, though. Your earlier analogy was about the difficulty in finding a BB in the grass in 1,000y circle around a basketball. That actually wouldn’t be all that difficult with a metal detector and/or a magnet. That may sound pedantic, but it’s not. The planets in the analogy reflect light and give off radio signals. Finding that BB would involve a troll around the orbit, which is a lot like what we do with our radio telescope searches.

Regarding the vastness of space, yes, it is unimaginably huge, but it is also largely empty, really dark, and populated by objects that emit enormous levels of energy in both the visible and invisible spectrum. Yes, a light year is a long distance, but our own eyes have the power to detect individual stars hundreds of thousands of light years away. That’s not exactly the same situation as wandering around in the desert looking for a random object, unless the desert was totally dark, you were viewing it from above, and the object you were looking for emitted enough light to be seen from thousands of miles away.

I haven’t developed an opinion on the likelihood of alien life to have found us because there are four pieces of information one would need, in my opinion, to be able to develop a solid opinion.

1- How likely is advanced life to occur- to wit, what is the predicted average physical distance between any two nearest occurrences?

2- How long after the forming of our universe is advanced life expected to begin occurring- to wit, where are we in that history?

3- How long is an occurrence of advanced life expected to survive?

4- Is the speed of light a true cosmological speed limit? Is it possible for matter or energy to be made to travel faster than light, and, if so, by how much?


Without knowing the answer to those four questions, or without having direct physical proof to its occurrence, I don’t see how anyone can form an opinion any stronger than gut feeling.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

doc- said:


> Where are The Aliens headed that they shouod happen to bump into our puny little planet accidently?
> 
> While we can't say the the probability value (p) of finding us is "0" (impossibility), it's value approaches 0 so closely that it is 0 for practical purposes.


They wouldn’t have to “bump into us”. Our own radio transmissions have formed a sphere around our planet with a 150 light year radius. And, if there is a way to move matter or energy faster than light, there is also a way to draw that matter or energy in faster than light, making that radius even larger.

There’s not a whole lot going on within 150 light years of earth, at least to our knowledge, but it’s possible that advanced life is in that sphere somewhere, and we don’t know that something can’t have developed the ability to detect energy from remote observance (faster than light reception).

There’s no more to support your supposition that we haven’t been visited than there is to support the supposition of those who think we have.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

doc- said:


> Are they smart enough to solve the problems of relativisitic traavel, but *dumb enough to just wander off*?





doc- said:


> Where are The Aliens headed that they shouod *happen to bump into* our puny little planet accidently?
> 
> While we can't say the the probability value (p) *of finding us* is "0" (impossibility), it's value approaches 0 so closely that it is 0 for practical purposes.


Rather humancentric of you, isn't it?

Who says "they" don't have knowledge and/or technology that can spot us from the other side of the universe... or even from a different dimension? Why would you assume they would have to "bump into" us?

Maybe they're explorers... or maybe they're mapping... or maybe the reconnoitering... or looking for food.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

HDRider said:


> View attachment 108459


Now that is a scary thought. Space aliens doing to Earth what the Europeans did to the people they found inhabiting the Americas.


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## Chief50 (10 mo ago)

homesteadforty said:


> Rather humancentric of you, isn't it?
> 
> Who says "they" don't have knowledge and/or technology that can spot us from the other side of the universe... or even from a different dimension? Why would you assume they would have to "bump into" us?
> 
> Maybe they're explorers... or maybe they're mapping... or maybe the reconnoitering... or looking for food.


Or they could be on a site seeing tour. Much like we would go on in Lion Country Safari.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

Wolf mom said:


> Not care?
> It's not on their radar.....


UFOs are pretty interesting. There's so much of our own planet we have yet to learn about, in addition to the cosmos.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Danaus29 said:


> Now that is a scary thought. Space aliens doing to Earth what the Europeans did to the people they found inhabiting the Americas.


I think that is almost a foregone conclusion, if it turns out that there are, and they found us.

I know that their mindset couldn’t be so predictable, and that we’d probably not even be able to understand it, but I think it would be a given that they are superior to us, and would think their ways best. Like the Europeans, they would probably see us as unsophisticated and unaware of what is best for ourselves (_which, honestly, would they be wrong?_), and could surely rationalize that whatever they wanted to do to us was for our own good- like converting the heathens to the one true church.

I’ve often toyed with the idea that what seems like a headlong rush to a one-world order, and the almost desperate urgency with which some want to see that come to be, is motivated by contact with aliens that happened back in the 1950s or ‘60s. The aliens laid out some demand that we get our turds in a herd by a set date, and they would allow us into the fold rather than outright destroy us.

I know it sounds childish, and it really is just a musing, but, if I may present Exhibit A, Klaus Schwab, chair of the WEF and pen behind The Great Reset:


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> They wouldn’t have to “bump into us”. Our own radio transmissions have formed a sphere around our planet with a 150 light year radius. And, if there is a way to move matter or energy faster than light, there is also a way to draw that matter or energy in faster than light, making that radius even larger.
> 
> There’s not a whole lot going on within 150 light years of earth, at least to our knowledge, but it’s possible that advanced life is in that sphere somewhere, and we don’t know that something can’t have developed the ability to detect energy from remote observance (faster than light reception).
> 
> There’s no more to support your supposition that we haven’t been visited than there is to support the supposition of those who think we have.


Reading this brought up a buried memory of my dad saying that earth rolling through space probably sounded (and looked) like a bunch of drunk red necks (apparently the actual spelling is not allowed?) out for a Saturday night drinking some beer drive. Music on high and cans being tossed out the window as we go.

Forgot all about him saying that...the visual made me laugh again.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Mish said:


> earth rolling through space probably sounded (and looked) like a bunch of drunk red necks (apparently the actual spelling is not allowed?) out for a Saturday night drinking some beer drive. Music on high and cans being tossed out the window as we go.


That would be us Earthlings

To quote a song I heard one time, "Turn it up!"


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Mish said:


> Reading this brought up a buried memory of my dad saying that earth rolling through space probably sounded (and looked) like a bunch of drunk red necks (apparently the actual spelling is not allowed?) out for a Saturday night drinking some beer drive. Music on high and cans being tossed out the window as we go.
> 
> Forgot all about him saying that...the visual made me laugh again.


I think the ones who first roll into the sphere of transmission will hear pretty innocent things at first, like some Italian guy saying “_Doesa thisa thinga worka? Can jew heara me?_” Once they get another 50 or 60 light years in, though, the stuff they hear will probably make them turn around… or set their phasers to vaporize.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> There’s not a whole lot going on within 150 light years of earth, at least to our knowledge, but it’s possible that advanced life is in that sphere somewhere, and we don’t know that something can’t have developed the ability to detect energy from remote observance (faster than light reception).


Your rebuttal to my BB in the grass analogy would be a good one if the dtetails of the analogy were important, but analogies are meant to be illustrations, not accurate models. Substitute "plastic bead" or "spit ball" for "BB" and you no longer have a point....and remember-- uoi aren;t even sure there is one there.

Our radio signals travel 150 LYs out ? They disperse by power of 3 with distance. Technically, they'll go to the ends of the universe eventually, but they're so weak by the time to get to the outer edge of our own solar system that they can be detected only with great difficulty.


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## KC Rock (Oct 28, 2021)

I was pretty skeptical about ufo's until Jimmy C said he saw one...


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

homesteadforty said:


> Rather humancentric of you, isn't it?
> 
> Who says "they" don't have knowledge and/or technology that can spot us from the other side of the universe... or even from a different dimension? Why would you assume they would have to "bump into" us?
> 
> Maybe they're explorers... or maybe they're mapping... or maybe the reconnoitering... or looking for food.


If you're going into "other dimensions" stuff, we may as well as just say they are angels sent from God or ghosts. We simply can't know anything about stuff that isn't part of our reality. Following your rules, then anything is possible, so why bother discussing it?

Religion is belief thru faith alone. Science is belief only thru verifiable proof. I don't argue religion.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doc- said:


> We simply can't know anything about stuff that isn't part of our reality.


Ask yourself how many time science has pierced that veil.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

doc- said:


> Your rebuttal to my BB in the grass analogy would be a good one if the dtetails of the analogy were important, but analogies are meant to be illustrations, not accurate models. Substitute "plastic bead" or "spit ball" for "BB" and you no longer have a point....and remember-- uoi aren;t even sure there is one there.


I suspected you might go there, which I why I pointed out how it specifically wasn’t pedantic. The steel BB is actually a better analogy than a plastic one because planets do reflect and occultate light sources, and radiate energy. Unlike a plastic BB, celestial bodies are detectable in other ways than just visible light Where the steel BB and metal detector analogy fails is that the BB is only passively interacting with the detector, while a planet actively interacts with detectors, once you know what to look for.



doc- said:


> Our radio signals travel 150 LYs out ? They disperse by power of 3 with distance. Technically, they'll go to the ends of the universe eventually, but they're so weak by the time to get to the outer edge of our own solar system that they can be detected only with great difficulty.


We’re also talking about a hypothetical species that has developed the technology to reasonably travel near, at, or faster than the speed of light. Our own technology, 150 years after discovering radio waves, and 120 years after our first powered flight, both of which a historical blink of an eye ago, are now able to detect the waves of individual sub-atomic particles, and currently have a machine (launched only 75 years after that first powered flight) that is now 1/3 of a light year away from earth.

Scaling the hypothetical technology of a species that has travelled between stars, it is not at all unreasonable to expect that their ability to detect and isolate radio waves is exponentially more advanced than ours. It’s not in dispute that our earliest radio transmissions are there. It’s just a matter of detecting them.

Again, I’m not taking the position that alien life has come here, or even exists. I accept that I don’t know. Without knowing if other life exists, how common it is, how long it lasts, and if it’s possible to travel or communicate faster than light, none of us can do any more than guess. Even when we try to rationalize our guess by applying math, it’s still nothing more than a guess since we don’t even know the variables that matter.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

doc- said:


> If you're going into "other dimensions" stuff, we may as well as just say they are angels sent from God or ghosts. *We simply can't know anything about stuff that isn't part of our reality.*


Rumsfeld stated:



> Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. *But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know.* And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tends to be the difficult ones.


My point is if we know we don't know or we don't know we don't know that does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist.

There are a myriad of examples of things we didn't know existed, and weren't even a thought, that we eventually "discovered". We didn't know those lights in the sky at night were stars... we didn't know that germs existed... we didn't know atoms existed... etc., etc., etc.

What's even more bothersome is the things that are scientific fact that turn out to be wrong. Science said the Coelacanth was long extinct and it was _impossible_ for it to exist today... ummm... wrong. The giant squid was just a fable... um... wrong again. And that's here on our own planet.



> Following your rules, then anything is possible, so why bother discussing it?


A thought becomes an idea, an idea becomes a theory, a theory becomes fact (or not). Kinda difficult to get from the former to the later without discussing it... don't cha think??? Discussing only the things you already know doesn't tend to advance knowledge very much. 



> Religion is belief thru faith alone.


Sometimes that's all you got.



> Science is belief only thru verifiable proof.


Isn't it also about investigating the possibilities??? Don't you have to _open-mindedly_ investigate to come up with that "verifiable truth"?



> I don't argue religion.


Neither do I... but I'm perfectly willing and able to _discuss_ it with anyone whom doesn't think they already know all the answers.


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