# Russian bees



## Elsbet (Apr 2, 2009)

My husband and I have been doing a lot of reading toward getting our bees set up, and we are both leaning toward getting Russians. What I like is that they seem to be less aggressive than some of the other breeds. I've helped out with Italians and never got stung, loved how pretty they were, but I like what I'm seeing about the Russians. We aren't looking for heavy honey production, mainly a small amount of honey for us (and even though we don't have the bees yet, our landlord has told us several times he wants honey when we get them too, lol), and good pollinators for our homestead.

Does anyone here keep (or have kept) Russians, and what is your opinion, pro and con? We are in South Carolina. Are there any particularly good companies to order this type from in the general south-eastern area? Any companies to avoid?
Thanks so much for any help.
Els


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

First, lets dismiss any claims that Russians are a south-eastern type bee.

When they brought over this cold hardy northern strain of bees called "Russians", where did they take it to perpetuate and breed the russians? Louisiana. So they messed this up from the start. After the government ran out of money, they handed over the program and breeding to about 13 queen producers. Most are in the southern half of the country. And most open mate their queens. So after 20 years, it is questionable whether the strain is close to what they started with, and the breeding today probably does not perpetuate the characteristics of what makes them good for northern beekeepers.

That is not to say that they are not good for the Carolinas. Afterall, several of the russian breeders are in your neck of the woods. And I always promote local bees to anything shipped in from across the country.

I also think they are marketed by who sells them based on over-blown hype. Good honey producers? Not compared to others strains. But they are frugal, shut down in dearths, and probably conserve honey stores better than the others. It does not make them good producers. It just means they manage their stores differently and in the end, may need to fed less.

Here is a bit about the different strains. The information is based on northern climates, but it would still apply.

http://www.nsqba.org/typesofhoneybees.html

I like the mite resistant qualities and the brood stoppages of the russians. I like that they wil not brood through cold periods and get stuck on brood like Italians. I think the "purer" strains are a bit runny or nervous on the comb, but not agressive as some have suggested. I really like them blended with carni lines.

Hope this helps.


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

I haven't had Russians, but do have an opinion. 

I always recommend that folks get local bees. Find someone local who sells nucs and get bees from them. Generally they will be mutts, well-adapted to your local climate. If you're involved with a local bee club, they can direct you to some reputable suppliers.

The thing with getting Russians (or Carnies, or Cordovans, etc), is that it's not unusual for bees to supersede the queen. In my case, it was Carnies: I got a couple Carni colonies two years ago and within two months both had replaced their queen, so I was back to mutts.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

I haven't had Russians, but I talked to a fellow down in Monrovia that has them. He's pretty disgusted with the swarmy nature of the bees. If they swarm as much as he says, I don't see how they can make much honey.


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## Elsbet (Apr 2, 2009)

BjornBee said:


> I also think they are marketed by who sells them based on over-blown hype. Good honey producers? Not compared to others strains. But they are frugal, shut down in dearths, and probably conserve honey stores better than the others. It does not make them good producers. It just means they manage their stores differently and in the end, may need to fed less.
> 
> I like the mite resistant qualities and the brood stoppages of the russians. I like that they wil not brood through cold periods and get stuck on brood like Italians. I think the "purer" strains are a bit runny or nervous on the comb, but not agressive as some have suggested. I really like them blended with carni lines.
> 
> Hope this helps.



Thank you Bjorn! Those were the traits that we liked the most- the frugality and conservation of their stores and mite resistance. We mainly want our bees for pollination, and don't want to have to feed in order to be sure we get enough- we don't eat sugars much at all in our household, and our honey flow is not long in our area, so heavy production is the last thing we care about.
I actually hadn't heard that they were considered by some to be a south eastern bee, so that's one myth that doesn't need to be debunked for us, lol. Thinking Russian, I was actually a bit concerned that they might not do as well in the south, but was hoping to experiment. We'll probably buy a package of Italians as well, but I'm not sure yet. We've got time before spring, obviously.


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## rdhdstpchild (Jul 13, 2009)

Our first hive were Italians then we went Russians for some extra oomph from our bees. Boy did we get it! The below is just based on my limited experience & so it's my small .02.

Bluntly- I've come to really dislike our Russians. Yes, they are much hardier, more industrious, etc but they are also much more aggressive. With the Italians I can get by with a small amount of smoke and a helmet, get in the hive with no gloves and do what needs doing. Italiants are an absolute pleasure to work with. My niece asked me to teach her how to work with the bees this summer and after my last attempt to check the Russian hive I made [email protected]#$% sure she understood which hive she could view and which she couldn't. 

The Russians are not happy to have us even walk by which is a problem since their hive is in the veggie garden. When DH has to mow he starts cussing the moment he pulls the mower/weedwacker into their area. The girls started by just buzzing by him. Then the girls went to following him. Now they will chase him out of their area, sometimes back to the house (about a couple hundred feet away). When it's time to check the hive, if I'm not fully suited up I WILL get stung multiple times and most likely not finish what I set out to do. 

We've pretty much given up on this set. I know I should requeen but eh, gads! Can't even get into the hive to LOOK at their progress much less pinch the current queen. 

If you're comfortable working with a potentially "hot" hive the Russians are great, especially if you have additional obstacles such as predators, etc. As for me & mine, we're going back to all Itialians.


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## Elsbet (Apr 2, 2009)

Thank you! I appreciate your extra insight, and will file this away. I had read that they were less aggressive, or at least they didn't sting as much (tending to fly after and headbutt instead of sting) but it's interesting that you've had those issues with yours.

We have helped work with Italians, and that is what most of the locals who keep bees have. But I'm not sure if we are confident enough yet to work with something that might be more aggressive. Of course, every hive probably has its own personality, too.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

The beekeeper I got my bees from said he used to have Russians and they were too aggressive.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

Most interesting about the Russians. I had friends living with me for several years. Her sister was the assistant apiarist at the Louisana station for the 5 years they worked with the Russians. Said Sister drove 3 full hives of those imported bees from LA to here in the back of her car and set them up in my backyard by the garden fence. I helped with the set up that afternoon wearing my shorts and tank top and never had a problem. I walked by those hives several times daily for months mostly in my shorts and tank top and never, ever had a bee get aggressive. We moved the hives to a different location and same thing, no aggression at all. The hives have since been moved to my friend's finally built home and I miss those Russians. I'm wondering if it could be a Russian cross that is so aggressive and not a pure Russian.


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## mwilkins (Aug 2, 2011)

I have had my Rusians for a few months now. I have worked them without a smoker swapping frames around to help with the brood epansion and never had an issue. I do wear a bee suit most of the time but never wear gloves. When checking on pollen cakes or filling the syrup feeder (we have had a very rough year here for the bees) I normally am wearing shorts and a tee shirt. My 12 year old daughter who helps dressed the same and we have never even had them become aggitatted. I would tend to guess it is a mixture of the genetics, maybe even weather as I am in CT. Mine did come from a certified Russian breader, but I am sure it is a matter of what traites have been bread over the years by the breaders that will have an impact on thier behavior. 

Just my experience.


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

You can have aggressive Italians, or docile Italians. You can have aggressive Russians, and you can have docile Russians. 

Many beekeepers just order from some marketed label of whatever the breeder says you are buying, then blames the "breed" and not the breeder.

Whether it's Italians, Russians, or any other breed of bee, a particular emphasis should be placed on where you buy bees, and not just the type of bees your buying.

The breeder should be culling out nasty bees and traits not desired. Too many breeders graft some number, and whatever the number of queens get mated and lay, that is what they pull to sell.

In nature, everything is a bell shaped curve. The majority of queens fall withing the middle of the bell curve. But there are always results (queens for this discussion) that fall on both side of what the norm actually is. You may get one or two better than what you started, and you may get one or two worse. And if the breeder is not culling out those few queens with every graft, then it's really a chance you take.

Other factors also dictate agressive traits. Some think that letting them "raise their own", is always best. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it's not. The bee curve of production produces a varying output across the graft. Nature producers some rather nasty feral colonies also. And when you let the colony to raise their own (like 20 cells at a time), you are somewhat allowing nature to dictate the results by allowing the nastiest queen to win, pass along her genes, and perhaps be a bit nastier.

In the end, I find it much better to find a producer who produces good queens and is doing the right queen rearing to allow you to have docile bees.

While I don't like aggressive bees, I do think nature provides a happy medium that can be managed. Some of the more protective colonies deal with SHB and mites a bit better. And while I like very docile bees, I also know some colonies put up little resistance to pests and problems. And simply put, I can't do anything with dead hives come spring. And my own results for many years has seen Russians, Carni and other non-Italian lines overewinter with much better rates than your average Italian colonies.

You want nice bees, find a good breeder.

BTW...there is NO standard for what a "pure" russian is. If there was, you would see it stated in marketing with actual results posted and verified, and not just simple applied marketing fluff as anyone could state they have pure this or that.

It seems many breeder have pure Russians, pure Italians, and pure anything else the buying public wants. Pure hogwash! There may be varying lines of different bees being perpetuated by breeders, but we all just have different mutt lines.


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