# Sale barn lesson. Now what?



## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

I went to the sale today to pick up a couple of steers for next years freezer meat. I bought two nice little calves. The first is a black 338 pounder. He has a long body and flat back. Just a great looking calf. 

The second looks just like a Hereford (white face with a red body) but his hair is really slick and short. The hair does not have any curls except a few right on his forehead but only just a little. Anyway, he only weighs 208. 

They were announced as steers and the paperwork lists both as steers. But when I get them home and in the corral, I notice the little red one still has all his natural hardware. I bought steers because I am a newbie and did not want to deal with turning bulls to steers yet. But I read the sign right over the auctioneer that states "No guarantees, look closely." Guess I will sit closer next time.

Can a bull this size be banded or will I have to find someone to cut him? If so, where can I buy a good banding tool?


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## copperhead46 (Jan 25, 2008)

Take him to your vet, it doesn't cost much and they will know the best way to castrate him. Be sure to have a tetnus shot, too.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

Do you have cows that you are worried about? If not, just keep him intact. The meat will be just fine.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

If your going to cut him, you will need to wait till cold weather. You can band now , but I would wait for cool weather at the least. I would also call the auction barn, and just ask, why does my steer have equipment yet. > Thanks Marc


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

If you get him finished and processed young he will still be good eats. As long as there aren't females on the other side of the fence for him to make trouble over. He could still be castrated but why spend the money and put him thru the stress if you don't have to. And a big 10-4 on the tetanus vaccination plus antitoxin if you do it all at the same time. We lost one to tetanus after castration and it was not pretty.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

He will be in with my 6 heifer calves that are to small to breed yet. They will not be big enough until January. I have worked out a deal with a friend to use his bull then for the fee of a calf. His bull is a low birth weight bull he uses for heifers. I guess a vet bill is in order. Thanks for your insight.


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

Whatever you do, please don't put him in with your heifers!


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

If you have to haul him and pay a vet, I'd just band him at home. As small as he is, you can put a rope on him and snub him to a post or tree or lay him down. If you haven't banded, get your neighbor to help (the one with the bull). If he doesn't band, he'll surely know how and be able to cut the calf for you. It's easy and takes just a few seconds to cut a calf.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

PaulNKS said:


> If you have to haul him and pay a vet, I'd just band him at home. As small as he is, you can put a rope on him and snub him to a post or tree or lay him down. If you haven't banded, get your neighbor to help (the one with the bull). If he doesn't band, he'll surely know how and be able to cut the calf for you. It's easy and takes just a few seconds to cut a calf.


But you have to cut a bull when its cold, otherwise you will get maggots in him. You can cut horses and hogs when its hot, but cattle has to be cold. > Thanks Marc


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

We band all of our calves now, your calf should be fine if you band him and give him a tetanus shot.


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

springvalley said:


> But you have to cut a bull when its cold, otherwise you will get maggots in him. You can cut horses and hogs when its hot, but cattle has to be cold. > Thanks Marc


No you don't. I agree it's best, but if you spray screw worm aerosol or blue lotion, you won't have any problems.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

PaulNKS said:


> No you don't. I agree it's best, but if you spray screw worm aerosol or blue lotion, you won't have any problems.


Correct, I have cut many hundreds in the S FLA summers and have never had problems with maggots.


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## possom (Jul 27, 2012)

Something I didn't see mentioned and not to sound dumb but are you sure he is still a bull? Did u get a hand on his sack and give it a squeeze? Depending on how you cut a steer the sack will still be there and have a fatty deposit inside it. 

Before u get a handful of sack get you a banding gun and bands from your local co-op. at 200 pounds or close to that that calf is just weaned. Still plenty small enough to band. If you feel testies inside the sack put a band around them. They are simple to put on. While u have him caught might as was give him a tetanus shot and a dose of durapen to knock out the crap they always seem to get in their lungs from the sell barn. If you don't want to use shot form antibiotics aramysin crumbles can be added to their feed and take care of both of new steers at once.


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## stifflej (Aug 11, 2008)

possom said:


> Something I didn't see mentioned and not to sound dumb but are you sure he is still a bull? Did u get a hand on his sack and give it a squeeze? Depending on how you cut a steer the sack will still be there and have a fatty deposit inside it.


I am glad you mentioned that, I saw for the first time last week at an auction what you mention, had a sack, but didn't look like it was intact, wasn't sure if it was cut, or still a bull, although I did not see the hang-age I was expecting. I have only dealt with banding, so wasn't sure what to make of it. Thanks, makes me feel better.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Well you guys cut all the bulls you want in the summer, not me, I`m an old timer I guess. > Thanks Marc


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

possom said:


> at 200 pounds or close to that that calf is just weaned. Still plenty small enough to band.


A calf is only just getting a good start at 200 pounds. Most beef cattle aren't weaned until at least 450 to 500 pounds. Ours are usually closer to 650.

If a calf is weaned at 200 to 300 pounds, it was because of some other issues... orphaned, dairy, sick, etc.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

For those of you who remember my failed cattle deal, the vet charged $70 to castrate the one we got as a steer. That seemed excessive to me. 

But normally we band.


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## bignugly (Jul 13, 2011)

possom said:


> Something I didn't see mentioned and not to sound dumb but are you sure he is still a bull? Did u get a hand on his sack and give it a squeeze? Depending on how you cut a steer the sack will still be there and have a fatty deposit inside it.
> 
> Before u get a handful of sack get you a banding gun and bands from your local co-op. at 200 pounds or close to that that calf is just weaned. Still plenty small enough to band. If you feel testies inside the sack put a band around them. They are simple to put on. While u have him caught might as was give him a tetanus shot and a dose of durapen to knock out the crap they always seem to get in their lungs from the sell barn. If you don't want to use shot form antibiotics aramysin crumbles can be added to their feed and take care of both of new steers at once.


If you squeeze his sack and he kicks you. You need to band. I know I would kick if some guy squeezed me there! LOL


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## possom (Jul 27, 2012)

PaulNKS said:


> A calf is only just getting a good start at 200 pounds. Most beef cattle aren't weaned until at least 450 to 500 pounds. Ours are usually closer to 650.
> 
> If a calf is weaned at 200 to 300 pounds, it was because of some other issues... orphaned, dairy, sick, etc.


I understand that. I was just under the impression he has bought these from the sale barn and was just pulled off their momma (weened) 

Still a bottle baby.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

It is normal for a salesbarn to list almost all of the male calves as steers.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

pancho said:


> It is normal for a salesbarn to list almost all of the male calves as steers.


If they were steers, they would. And most would be, where I come from. Steers usually bring more per pound.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

PaulNKS said:


> If a calf is weaned at 200 to 300 pounds, it was because of some other issues... orphaned, dairy, sick, etc.


Our auction has started pulling calves off the older cows when they come into the sale barn, and selling them separately. I guess they figured out they can get more money for them that way.

It does give those of us who want a bottle calf an opportunity to buy a nice beef animal.


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

possom said:


> I understand that. I was just under the impression he has bought these from the sale barn and was just pulled off their momma (weened)
> 
> Still a bottle baby.


My apology. I thought you were saying they were weaned at 200. You'd be surprised how many times I've seen "city" farmers buy calves at the sale barn at 200 to 300 pounds and were told they were weaned....


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Thanks for all the info. They are in the corral at the moment.

Weaned or not, he is now. He was not run through with his momma. He came out of the trailer eatting grass for about 30 minutes. He drank some water. I then split 3 pounds of 16% feed for the 2 and they shared the trough nicely. I then put in a 1/3 of a square bale (60 pound bale). They both ate the feed and then nibbled the hay. I just got home to go check them today. 

At 208, he would need a ladder to reach the heifers I would think. They are all 500 to 550. Am I going to have to find somewhere to move him? That will be hard!

I have a call in to my friend to see if he can band or cut him. Waiting to hear back.


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## momagoat61 (Mar 30, 2008)

Here we clamp our bull calves. We haven't banded nor cut a bull calve in 40 years. We try to clamp the bull calves the day or the day after they are born and give them all pinkeye and blacklegg shots, heifers and bull calves. We don't give tentanus shots to any of them.. We might have 25 plus bull calves born annually, use to have more cattle then we do now and we clamp them all.. My brothers took over the cattle farming for my dad and well the boys aren't as good as dad was and we did have one stagg from last years group of calves. As for clamping, weather doesn't matter, we have clamped in 20 degrees or 95 degrees.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Possum Belly said:


> If they were steers, they would. And most would be, where I come from. Steers usually bring more per pound.


I have sales barn reciepts going back to the 1960s. Every bull calf we sold was listed as steers, we didn't casterate anything we would be selling as calves. If we had a few that we thought were worth keeping as bulls we would sell them seperately as bulls and the sales reciept would say bulls.
Those would be sold by the head not by the pound.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Calves that have been clamped with a burdizzo at an older age can look like a bull................The scrotum is still intact. But upon closer examination, you can feel the testicles are shriveled or hardly there at all. Depends on what age it was done.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

I guess my biggest question now is when is a calf mature enough to breed. If he is only 208 pounds, how old is he at the most? 3 months or 2 months? When will his equipment mature enough to work?

My neighbor said we need to wait until September and make sure he is healthy from the sale before we add a new stressor. He said he can't breed the heifers that big for at least 6 months? Any thoughts?


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## opportunity (Mar 31, 2012)

Bulls cn breed as young as 4 months but usually dont' till 6 months or latter. As the heifers are bigger that doesn't mean much bulls will get it done. He might already be a steer some people around here have steers that look like bulls not sure how though.


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

I think first you must fence off the heifers from anything remotely resembling a bull. (But something tells me you're not planning to do that if you're asking how old he has to be in order to breed.) You will be asking for trouble if you allow those yearling heifers to be bred (potential calving problems among other things). If they've already been exposed and possibly bred, I would terminate the pregnancy. 

Then determine if these two "steers" are still intact. If not, then have them castrated when it's cooler. I agree that the change in environment is enough stress for now. 

Do you have a large animal vet in your area?


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

The advice I was given locally was put the together and cut him in September after he calms down. They say he is to young to breed the heifers. I have no idea when he could breed them. That is why I am asking. Putting him separate other than just in the corral will require finding a pasture to borrow and trailering him. He has been in the corral since his arrival. The closest he has gotten to the heifers is to touch noses through the corral panels.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

This is already august. He isn't going to breed anything next month.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Really? Cattle won't breed in the fall?


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

nchobbyfarm said:


> I guess my biggest question now is when is a calf mature enough to breed. If he is only 208 pounds, how old is he at the most? 3 months or 2 months? When will his equipment mature enough to work?
> 
> My neighbor said we need to wait until September and make sure he is healthy from the sale before we add a new stressor. He said he can't breed the heifers that big for at least 6 months? Any thoughts?


As was stated, bulls can breed very young. If breeding to a couple cows, anytime after 6 months. But... if turning out as a herd sire, we wait until they are 2 years old.

The main thing is... he can breed if he can reach the target on a cow.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

As long as he isn't a jersy he shouldn't be a worry.


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

Nchobbyfarm, I fear you may be headed for a rude awakening -- 6 heifers that won't be old enough to safely breed until January and 2 "steers" that may in fact be bulls are pastured together because you don't have proper facilities.

Losing a heifer that's bred too young and her calf is no picnic. Why take a chance? If you value your animals and your investment, I hope you will rethink what you are doing and re-read the advice that has been posted on this thread.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

Our sale barn has the paper from the seller with the sex on it as the seller declared it on delivery and a ring man who takes an educated guess .but as you say none who will take blame for a mistake .hope all workes out for ya and like me take the lesson and check em closer next time


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

Well after reading it all and since you asked for advice here is mine. He weighs 208 and will never be any easier to handle. at that weight the small cherrio type bander will do the job. Get one, crowd him in a corner with help or an alley or throw him and find out if he has testicles. Band him, give tetanus shot and the worry is over one way or the other. Banding a calf at that size is little stress. If you put it off he gets bigger, you wonder is he messing with the heifers, which is really not a concern at this time. Find out and take action. ps banding a calf that size will be easier with him standing and make sure you have both nuts before you release the band.

I will also comment that things are not all the same every where, some people seem to think that the way it is where they are is the way it is everywhere. Here a group of bull calves will be sold as bulls and the price will be discounted.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Thanks all. I have rented a second pasture to hold the bull calf and the steer. Yes he is a bull calf. I ran him in the corner to find out. The larger one is in fact a steer. I will move them tomorrow after work. They are still in the corral so loading should not be to hard and there is no way he can get to the heifers. Expensive lessons. I still don't believe he can reach these 500+ pound heifers but why chance it as several have stated.


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## Mironsfarm (Feb 3, 2011)

i would go ahead and band him while you have him in the corral they do sell larger bands i always wait to band my calfs right before they are weaned but i have banded 300 pounds calf with no problem good luck


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## RedDirt Cowgirl (Sep 21, 2010)

nchobbyfarm said:


> He will be in with my 6 heifer calves that are to small to breed yet. They will not be big enough until January. I have worked out a deal with a friend to use his bull then for the fee of a calf. His bull is a low birth weight bull he uses for heifers. I guess a vet bill is in order. Thanks for your insight.


Besides the good advice above, a low birth weight bull to breed heifers? How many things are wrong with that picture? Oh, and the meat from a bull may be "fine" according to Crownranch, but most cattlemen see raising a bull for meat as folly. There's a reason steers fetch a higher price, on the hoof and on the hook.


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## ramiller5675 (Mar 31, 2009)

RedDirt Cowgirl said:


> ...a low birth weight bull to breed heifers? How many things are wrong with that picture?...


I'm scratching my head trying to figure out exactly what you mean.

What do you typically breed your replacement heifers to since a LBW bull isn't acceptable?


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## Jessilee7 (Sep 26, 2011)

X2 exactly what ramiller said.... ????


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## RedDirt Cowgirl (Sep 21, 2010)

Our heifers are grown to maturity, not bred as soon as possible. Bulls are stocked with good confirmation for whatever herd development is aimed for, meat or milk improvement. Right now it's Charolais cows to Angus bulls; the market for Herefords was just shot to hell and we had to adapt. We run range cattle, "replacement" heifers are a long-range consideration, many years of production for a good cow that doesn't abandon her calf or let it fall prey to coyotes.

You want different things in feed lot animals.

"Low birth weight" is a fault in an otherwise standard animal, and doesn't bode well for normal development. If you want a small calf, choose a small breed bull.


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## ramiller5675 (Mar 31, 2009)

Well, I'm still trying to figure out exactly what you are saying.

If I've got it right, heifers shouldn't be bred until they are mature (3 years old?), cross-breed to suit the market, good cows should be good mothers (not really sure what that has to do with birth weight), and something about feed lot animals being somehow different.

So, if I've got it right, you would either wait to breed heifers until they were alot older, not even mess with them and send them to the feed lot, or breed them to some sort of smaller breed of cattle (Corriente, Dexter, or ??). 

That sounds like a much better business plan than simply breeding 15 mo. old heifers to a LBW Angus bull that has both a lower birth weight and good growth characteristics.


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## RedDirt Cowgirl (Sep 21, 2010)

This is really getting a bit snotty here, but it sounded to me like someone was looking to breed young heifers unable to deliver a full size calf, so go to a bull that is throwing immature/low weight births. And how that works out, frankly I've never heard of. If you've got good growth characteristics that's something else. Using a small breed cow with a larger breed bull brings more problem births, does it not?

We don't breed our heifers until they're full sized, that's giving them a year and another to come into the breeding season that works best for our grazing region. All heifers are evaluated, the poor ones sent to market and cows are culled that don't provide a yearly calf that reaches market weight with the rest of the bunch. We don't make money on investing in cows that aren't profitable as range cattle.

And yes, cross-bred cattle to suit the market is the business plan that's kept our ranch running into its 120th year.


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## farmgirl6 (May 20, 2011)

pancho said:


> This is already august. He isn't going to breed anything next month.


oh crap, does that mean the cows go out of season? was going to AI my cow in Sept if possible, still trying to pin down a good solid standing heat date...


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

farmgirl6 said:


> oh crap, does that mean the cows go out of season? was going to AI my cow in Sept if possible, still trying to pin down a good solid standing heat date...


Cows have a heat cycle every 3 weeks just like women. 

As to the low birth weight. You can't just breed to any run of the mill low birth weight bull. If you go that route, it has to be a proven bull or your LBW calf won't perform as he should.

You need to look at the overall genetics and the EPD's. IF you go with a low birth weight bull, you want one that has a _history of producing progeny with low birth weights AND high weaning weights _or it just won't work.

And, fiscally, it makes absolutely no sense to keep a heifer until she's 3 years old before breeding. By the time you did that and take another 9 months of gestation and another 9 to 12 months before selling the calf, wow.. Just wow.. You could have sold the heifer and replaced her with a cow for less money.

Breed to a low birth weight, high weaning weight producing bull when the heifer is 15 to 19 months of age.


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

PaulNKS said:


> Cows have a heat cycle every 3 weeks just like women.


Ahem, ummm, PaulNKS, a human's cycle is 28 days, cows about 21. But the gestation is the same, about 9 months.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

I had no intention of breeding my heifers to early. I intended to buy 2 steers for next years freezer meat. I have perfect fencing to handle exactly what I intended. My heifers will not be bred until January. I went to the sale and bought one steer. The rest went higher than I wanted to pay. They started selling the slaughter cows which normally means that is all that is left. I started to leave and all of a sudden I hear the ring man call out "steer". The price started low enough so I jumped in. I ended up high bidder. I took his word as he was in the ring with the animal. It happened just about that fast. 

Now I pay for my purchases, load them, and head home. I unload them into the corral. Within minutes I notice that something is wrong. I then write my original post to ask for advice. I have learned a valuable lesson. Never trust the ring man. 

My second pasture deal fell apart. I will be selling the bull this week and buy another steer as I originally planned.


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## Jessilee7 (Sep 26, 2011)

nchobby - It is totally up to you of course to do whatever you feel is right for you, BUT.... 
You already got this calf. I don't know if you got a good deal on him or not so you may or may not be better off keeping him or trying to sell him and make $$. Only you know that. I will give my 2Â¢ worth though. I agree with Pancho that a 200 lb calf isn't going to breed your heifers before you band him in September. I also think that no matter how new you are to cattle that you're capable of giving him a $2 tetanus shot and banding him on your own now or in September - whichever you prefer. If you're going to lose $$$ on him by reselling or if you paid less for him than you would a steer to replace him, Id suggest spending 5-10 minutes on altering his current "hardware" and keeping him. No trouble of reselling or rebuying.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

RedDirt Cowgirl said:


> This is really getting a bit snotty here, but it sounded to me like someone was looking to breed young heifers unable to deliver a full size calf, so go to a bull that is throwing immature/low weight births. And how that works out, frankly I've never heard of. If you've got good growth characteristics that's something else. Using a small breed cow with a larger breed bull brings more problem births, does it not?
> 
> We don't breed our heifers until they're full sized, that's giving them a year and another to come into the breeding season that works best for our grazing region. All heifers are evaluated, the poor ones sent to market and cows are culled that don't provide a yearly calf that reaches market weight with the rest of the bunch. We don't make money on investing in cows that aren't profitable as range cattle.
> 
> And yes, cross-bred cattle to suit the market is the business plan that's kept our ranch running into its 120th year.


Great to be breeding towards a cow that can protect its calf from coyotes. But the breeding life of a cow is limited. Seems you'd want to be breeding towards a cow that can carry and deliver a live calf as soon as possible. Feeding a cow an extra year without a calf is costly. Most beef farmers have selected towards smaller calves at birth, but with higher growth rates. It does your farm no good to have cows carrying quality calves that they can't easily deliver. This would be of great importance for range cattle.
Every beef bull in the country is graded on birth weight, daily gain, weining weight and other factors. I'm stunned that anyone from a Beef Farm wouldn't know that.
Herefords and Angus are two beef breeds that have smaller calves. When bred to a larger birth weight Angus or Hereford bull, younger heifers can have delivery problems. When these smaller breeds are bred to larger breed bulls, like Charolais, birthing problems are common.
If you have a breed with a large frame, like Charolais, you can safely breed to a Charolais bull that has big calves. Holsteins are large framed and it is common to breed a young heifer to a low birth weight bull, often Angus, to insure an easy calving.
But, I have never heard of anyone taking big Charolais cows and breeding them to the smaller Angus. You have to feed a big cow and get a smaller return. If I were rasing Charolais on the range, I'd be using a big framed Charolais bull that has a low birth weight and a high wiening weight. Leave the smaller Angus bulls to those with smaller cows.
I'm not trying to be snotty, just trying to add information from my experiences. I think the snottyness started with "what's wrong with this picture."


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

I will chime in here. I see the sense in cross breeding charlois cows. Pure(white nosed) charlois calves are usually discounted in my area. Feed lots operators find the carcasses are too large to meet the packers criteria when they reach desireable finish. Spotted simitals, salier and hereford are all discounted in my area but for different reasons.


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## RedDirt Cowgirl (Sep 21, 2010)

Jeezeus, this q & a has gone so off topic from the opâs thread, which was nchobbyfarm feeling he had gotten a âsalebarn lessonâ in getting uncut steers he had to put in with his 6 heifer calves that are too small to breed yet. Then later he posts heâs getting a deal with a friend with a low birth weight bull, so in 6 months his heifer calves will be bred. So I pipe up with my snotty remark, whatâs wrong with this picture. Not nice, but neither is the thought of inexperienced hobbyists who have already gotten in trouble with animals only able to see a deal with a friend as the way out. Again, I think others have good advice here.

Our climate is Mediterranean, grass season is December to April with good rains. Our range is hilly, rocky and surrounded by the same on all sides. Water is scarce and short. âFarmingâ and dairy cattle are out of the question, we run a beef cow-calf operation & need to buy hay produced in the valley to take us through the summer months into fall. The market is not local. Breeding season is timed for lactating with the first rains in September/October. Herefords came to be the best cattle for us in the 30âs. It took heifers almost 2 years to reach 1200 lbs. All cattle are different now, with breed improvements all around. Breeding a heifer âas soon as they can carry a calfâ has been found to be shortsighted, both for lost stock and high labor costs, but that doesnât mean we now wait 3 years! Ramiller5696, a good cow to us is one that has come through our own breeding program (the kind of animal we need, and no transportation, disease or parasite costs) and can be productive for more than 15 years, we've had cows bearing calves at 20. Weaning weight is significant as it bears on maximum weight gain to the meat market, calves sold sooner are considered a loss.. We donât make money sending them to a feed lot for someone else to profit by. Nobody around here wants a bottle calf, they usually go free to the 4H kids. A cow that canât keep her calf from predation is bad for the whole herd.

Haypoint from Michigan farmland may be âstunnedâ at our ignorance here in the West, but we do know about breed/bull confirmation points since we pay top dollar for bulls that are kept 2 to 4 years max. Maybe heâs an expert on âwieningâ weight, and discounts the genes a cow brings to a calf. As for feed lot cattle, we also pay more for a ârangeâ bull, that can leave a corral to feed and do his job, not just shelter in the shade all day as we see most all Angus cattle do (Thereâs our feedlot prejudice.) A cattle herd selected for meat production will generally decline in milk production - Simmentals were bred through the herd in the 60âs. Angus has been so heavily marketed in the beef industry that they now command the highest meat prices, a premium above the carcass grading. That breed has been greatly improved also; theyâre no longer small - bulls come in around 2600 lbs or more, and of course, the cows correspond. Charolais, having more red meat and less fat, were proved by the Australians first for good cross breeding, and in these parts have pretty much replaced Herefords. Better carcass at sale, but still not the Angus price. Some ranchers here prefer a pure Charolais herd, especially if they have mountain grazing rights, because theyâre intense foragers and will browse heavily on trees. They also survive better.

Iâm sorry to have offended so many by sharing our cattle ranch experience - weâre all still looking to learn something too. :cowboy:


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Reddirt Cowgirl. My deal with a friend was secured long before I bought the uncut steer. It is a way to get my heifers bred without having to buy a bull. I am still confused with why that bothers you. But to be honest, I really don't care how you feel on that subject. My question was what was the best way to deal with my mistake of buying the uncut steer. That was the newbie mistake that I take full responsibility. 

Sorry that I misunderstood the forum as a place to seek advice for those of us that are trying to learn a better way to provide security for our family. I assure you that I won't make that mistake again. I hope your operation works for you. I hope everyone else's works for them. I will work out my own issues myself from here on out and just lurk.

Moderator, please lock this thread as it can do nothing but go down hill from here. Thanks


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## stifflej (Aug 11, 2008)

nchobby, don't be discouraged, even though this thread took an off turn, most won't, and there are some great people on here to help you out. I am pretty new as well, and have gotten great advice. People don't always agree, which can be good for you, gives you more then one option to try, and you can choose whats best for you. But don't give up on these folks, lots of good help here.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

I think the heat and drought is getting to every body.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Sales barn advice: If you don't know what you are doing, find someone who does. Get to the auction early and ask the office staff to point out some of the order buyers. At least locally they will act as no-cost for those who just want 1-2. They take your bidder number, confirm exactly what you are looking for, then bid on your behalf up to your lmits.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

At one time there was 'the French Technique'. The balls would be pushed up into the body and then a band put over the remaining bag. Calf would grow out like a bull, but be sterile as the balls would be overly warm.

I once had a heifer breed at nine-months-of-age. Had the calf unassisted.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

I dont know why the calf isnt just banded now. I have banded in all temperatures and never had fly strike. Maybe I was lucky? Takes very little time or skill to throw a band on a 200 pound bull and there you have your steer.


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