# why 'bleed' a pig?



## Milkwitch

I am wondering what happens when a pig is not bled out good.
I believe the 'knocker' is not bleeding the pork right.
the meat is bloody, like beef and it goes rancid within a few months..
no one here will believe me.
please any comments will be welcome


----------



## Ed Norman

Right, you want the blood out of the tissue or it affects taste and color. Makes sense it would also make it go bad faster.


----------



## Ronney

Any animal that is not bled out is not fit to eat. It does affect the taste, colour and keeping ability.

We have a beast in the freezer at the moment that had to be shot because of a very badly broken leg and it wasn't bled out properly at the time of killing. It was only every going to be dog tucker anyway (it's a long story) but the colour is a much deeper red than normal and within hours of being killed it had already taken on a peculiar smell.

Cheers,
Ronnie


----------



## Allen W

Pork will tell on your butcher, if not handled right it will develop an off taste pretty fast. I would look for a new butcher and see if I liked the results better.


----------



## Rogo

It's not just swine. Any critter not bled out well will taste gawd awful.

I was once given some 'rancid' venison. I called it rancid, but it just wasn't bled out well. Told the folks that next time, take the time!


----------



## Milkwitch

thanks everyone. I grew up around a farm, but I have been away from it for many years, I 'know' when something is not right, but just have a bit of doubting myself. I have tried to tell people this is not right with the pork, I mean I have never in my life seen pork-chops or ground pork drip blood, but I am not believed. If I were not alone here I would do the kill myself!!!!
I also believe this 'knocker' runs it too, because it often has an off taste like a moose or deer thats been 'run'.


----------



## Handyman

What do you mean by "runs" it?


----------



## highlands

If bleed out is not done properly and quickly one of the things you may notice is blood spots in the hams. See:

http://sugarmtnfarm.com/blog/2007/10/question-on-killing-blow.html


----------



## Milkwitch

HM my Daddy said it was 'run' if the animal does not drop first shot, is wounded, or is chased long time, it will have adrenaline in the meat. in case of slaughter domestic animals is not killed first try and same thing is scared/ wounded.


----------



## joshf

Two questions:
1. What if the animal had just been on an unusually long hike, but was not scared or stressed?
2. What if you were not planning to slaughter, but did so out of desperation to not come home empty handed after 5 hours in knee-deep snow with dusk and a snow storm fast approaching? What if in ignorance and hast to make it home, the animal was not properly bled--any way to still eat it? For instance, when you say it develops an off flavor, do you mean in hours days, or weeks? Will smoking cover it up?


----------



## dkhern

i dont know anyone who tries to bleed out a deer after shooting anymore. just hang and age if cool enough or quarter and placee in water. change water a couple of times and add ice to cool. pork is done the same way when shot in the wild. domestic pork i do bleed


----------



## joshf

Well, the setting was 'wild' but the pig was 'domestic'


----------



## gerold

dkhern said:


> i dont know anyone who tries to bleed out a deer after shooting anymore. just hang and age if cool enough or quarter and placee in water. change water a couple of times and add ice to cool. pork is done the same way when shot in the wild. domestic pork i do bleed


I bleed deer,pork beef etc. always if it is for human eating.


----------



## Wanda

gerold said:


> I bleed deer,pork beef etc. always if it is for human eating.





How do you bleed a deer? When the heart stops you are not going to remove blood from the muscle.


----------



## Gravytrain

Wanda said:


> How do you bleed a deer? When the heart stops you are not going to remove blood from the muscle.


Gravity. I always make sure I hear the "sucking" sound during field dressing/hanging to make sure the arterial vacuum has released, allowing the blood to drain from the tissue.


----------



## BobbyB

Wanda said:


> How do you bleed a deer? When the heart stops you are not going to remove blood from the muscle.


EXactly. I have seen several with cut throats but the didnt bleed. If you shoot them thru the vitals, they bleed out inside. 

I always quarter my deer and put in large cooler full of ice. As the ice melts, I drain the bloody water and add more ice. I do this for 10 days then cut and wrap.

I have never had a single complaint about my venison. 

Wild hogs are done the same way except I cut and wrap after 2-3 days. 

Now I have knifed or been at the knifing of a large number of wild hogs. If you knife one while still alive, the blood is far greater than from a hog popped with a 22 then stuck. 

And the reason I was taught in ag class to cut the throats of chickens and turkeys was so the heart can pump them out vs wringing the neck or taking the head off which causes the heart to shut down quickly.


----------



## Shoestringer

Your pork was not bled well. It can be hard to get at a pig after is has been shot or stunned, and some will wait for all the thrashing to stop before bleeding. It doesn't work. You need a more professional slaughterman, who has help and will get the arteries cut immediately. 
If you are paying to have it done, it should be done right. Pork should store reasonably well. Some of the fattier cuts should be eaten first, as fat does not freeze as well.


----------



## That'll Do Pig

In some cultures they do little to no bleeding of pork. In America though, we're not raised to respect the coppery taste of unbled meat.


----------



## HerseyMI

Venison tastes more musky to me if not bled well.... minimum of one week hung so the tissue can drain and or evaporate. But venison is not pork either, in fact pork is added quite often to venison sausage nowadays. It hides some of the gamier flavor and adds moisture.


----------



## HerseyMI

That'll Do Pig said:


> In some cultures they do little to no bleeding of pork. In America though, we're not raised to respect the coppery taste of unbled meat.


I like the way you put that, it is a coppery flavor and is a thick dry sensation. I enjoy it in venison.


----------



## ErikaMay

I got chewed out for bleeding out my venison by an "experienced" hunter. He also said "don't keep any bones." Well, bleed it out (made a mess!) but there is no gamey flavor, and the bones make nice soup. I am guessing that is the reason why.

Bummer your pork is bad! do you think if you soak it in milk (old timey trick for organ meats) before cooking you can clean up the taste a bit?


----------



## Wanda

Just for an example cut the next dead animal you find and see how much it bleeds.


----------



## Gravytrain

Wanda said:


> Just for an example cut the next dead animal you find and see how much it bleeds.


Picture a boiler in the basement of a large apartment building. Hot water pipes and their return pipes snake throughout the building. When the boiler breaks down and has to be removed is there still water within the system? Yes...Until the system is vented at the top, and the vacuum is released allowing the remaining water to drain out. Same principle. 

Some people don't mind their venison "bloody", but my family prefers it well drained.

It is important to make sure the arterial vacuum is released while the blood is still warm and hasn't coagulated yet, and it's not really "bleeding", just draining...So, no this will not work well with road kill...just for an example. :thumb:


----------



## highlands

One of the reasons for bleeding out is taste. Another is that if the blood is left in the meat then the meat is more prone to spoilage and won't last as long. My understanding from reading research articles is the latter is why bleed out became the norm. There's a good book "The Meat We Eat" which covers a lot of this sort of thing. Very interesting reading.

-Walter


----------



## ErikaMay

Gravytrain said:


> .So, no this will not work well with road kill...just for an example. :thumb:


Never say never. :ashamed:


----------



## gimpy

Milkwitch said:


> I am wondering what happens when a pig is not bled out good.
> I believe the 'knocker' is not bleeding the pork right.
> the meat is bloody, like beef and it goes rancid within a few months..
> no one here will believe me.
> please any comments will be welcome


There are a lot of variables. If you are slow about gutting the animal (really should aim at being done gutting within an hour of killing it) and it hasn't been bled, then the bacteria normally present in the gut will already be starting to travel along the blood vessels. Now, the blood isn't pumping so the bacteria aren't being pumped. They have to grow through the bloodstream and that will take hours to a day or so at room temperature depending on the particular strains of bacterial gut flora.

Assuming that you are storing your meat properly (freezing it solid), whether it was bled or not really shouldn't alter whether it goes rancid. It will alter the flavor somewhat, but not the rate of spoilage. You probably need to put a thermometer in your freezer, or are you only storing it in the refrigerator, because then unbled meat will spoil faster. You might just have an old freezer that doesn't get as cold as you think.

The freezer should be at or colder than zero degrees Fahrenheit
http://extension.missouri.edu/publications/DisplayPub.aspx?P=GH1501


----------



## highlands

Interesting little detail is that meat doesn't freeze until it gets below 25Â°F. The proper freezer _storage_ temperature is 15Â°F or below according to the state department of food and markets (they come out and test freezers at farms and stores). Far lower is far better because it is far faster so you get micro-crystals that do less cell membrane damage. (We keep ours at -15Â°F.) For doing the freezers space the meat out and blast freezers are best as they break up the surface air. Properly frozen meat will last for tens of thousands of years. The mammoth steaks were delicious!  Use manual defrost chest freezers for the best results as the auto defrost work by thawing and refreezing - bad for food.

A corollary is the best fresh storage temperature for meat is just above that 25Â°F temperature. About 27Â°F is ideal as it is far enough away from 25Â°F to prevent freezing but low enough to stop all bacterial action. This gives about 90 days or more of extra storage as fresh meat. A lot of research was done in Norway on this initially related to fish and then on pork. This is now being applied to other meats as well.

See: http://sugarmtnfarm.com/floor-heating-under-freezer/


----------



## secuono

I hate the copper taste of blood, can smell it and taste it in the air. So nasty. When bigger breeds of dog go through teething, I can hardly have them in the house. 
I've skinned and gutted dead rabbits, found dead from who knows what. Blood didn't come out from much of anything, coagulates pretty quick. Some in big veins, arteries and heart, but doesn't really drain out. 
I made sure to stick the pig I shot right after he dropped to bleed him out. Hard to do, made a mess, but worth it. He tasted great. Would of sucked to make him dog food. 
Salt baths will help draw out some blood, sometimes a fair amount that makes you wonder what the heck. Worth trying if you couldn't bleed it out before.


----------



## HerseyMI

Wanda said:


> Just for an example cut the next dead animal you find and see how much it bleeds.


Hanging a deer within an hour or so of being shot... what blood is remaining in the heavy muscle tissue... some of it will leave the body if its hung properly. Hang the deer with the hind quarters UP rather than down... leave it hang for a week or longer even. I know people that hang several all winter long, only lowering the deer to take a cut.


----------



## 95bravo

I would guess that the tradition in America started from the verses in Acts about not drinking blood. When you cut open a steak you are seeing myoyoblin, not hemoglobin. When you bleed a critter you are getting out the hemoglobin.


----------



## 65284

When we butchered hogs dad shot and stuck them then gently stepped on the rib cage pumping up and down, think CPR. An amazing amount of blood came out.


----------



## That'll Do Pig

95bravo said:


> I would guess that the tradition in America started from the verses in Acts about not drinking blood. When you cut open a steak you are seeing myoyoblin, not hemoglobin. When you bleed a critter you are getting out the hemoglobin.


I'm sure the Europeans brought the practice over when they did most american livestock but I don't know if Native Americans bled their game or not. I know it's really common not to bleed hogs in South America.


----------



## HerseyMI

Consumption of the blood is to consume the life or soul. If you are religious. An animal that has its life blood still within its body is either still living or assumed to have died of natural causes which may very well include death due to disease. Many bloodborn diseases are transferrable between animals and humans. Some people have drank fresh blood from livestock. And there is blood pudding too. Its a personal choice perhaps... or maybe it stops spreading diseases to some extent? You choose.


----------



## BobbyB

highlands said:


> Interesting little detail is that meat doesn't freeze until it gets below 25Â°F. The proper freezer _storage_ temperature is 15Â°F or below according to the state department of food and markets (they come out and test freezers at farms and stores). Far lower is far better because it is far faster so you get micro-crystals that do less cell membrane damage. (We keep ours at -15Â°F.) For doing the freezers space the meat out and blast freezers are best as they break up the surface air. Properly frozen meat will last for tens of thousands of years.* The mammoth steaks were delicious! * Use manual defrost chest freezers for the best results as the auto defrost work by thawing and refreezing - bad for food.
> 
> A corollary is the best fresh storage temperature for meat is just above that 25Â°F temperature. About 27Â°F is ideal as it is far enough away from 25Â°F to prevent freezing but low enough to stop all bacterial action. This gives about 90 days or more of extra storage as fresh meat. A lot of research was done in Norway on this initially related to fish and then on pork. This is now being applied to other meats as well.
> 
> See: http://sugarmtnfarm.com/floor-heating-under-freezer/


Careful Walter. I highly doubt that mammoth was properly bled and you will ruin the whole bleeding theory .


----------



## That'll Do Pig

HerseyMI said:


> Consumption of the blood is to consume the life or soul. If you are religious. An animal that has its life blood still within its body is either still living or assumed to have died of natural causes which may very well include death due to disease. Many bloodborn diseases are transferrable between animals and humans. Some people have drank fresh blood from livestock. And there is blood pudding too. Its a personal choice perhaps... or maybe it stops spreading diseases to some extent? You choose.


Yup. Makes sense. Africans mix a cow's blood with it's milk and drink it for that reason. Yuck. They don't even kill it usually.


----------



## haypoint

That'll Do Pig said:


> Yup. Makes sense. Africans mix a cow's blood with it's milk and drink it for that reason. Yuck. They don't even kill it usually.


Hence the old saying, " Why kill the cow when you can drink its blood for free." I think that's how it goes.....:hysterical:


----------



## gimpy

highlands said:


> About 27Â°F is ideal as it is far enough away from 25Â°F to prevent freezing but low enough to stop all bacterial action.


No. Clostridium is significantly slowed but not stopped until 0 degrees Fahrenheit. Furthermore there are more pathogens than bacteria to be concerned about. There are molds as well that although slowed at 27F are not stopped.

Also remember that these temperatures do not kill the pathogens. They only stop their reproduction. When you thaw the meat they will start up again.


----------



## gimpy

secuono said:


> I hate the copper taste of blood,.


It's not copper. It's oxidized iron blended with all the fats from the dead membranes of the red blood cells. Red cells die and start to decompose really fast without the right preservatives. It's really a slightly rancid iron rust .


----------



## gimpy

95bravo said:


> . When you cut open a steak you are seeing myoyoblin, not hemoglobin..


myoglobin


----------



## highlands

BobbyB said:


> Careful Walter. I highly doubt that mammoth was properly bled and you will ruin the whole bleeding theory .


*grin* My wife hates it when the meat isn't bled out. She doesn't like the coppery taste. (Yes, it's iron but she describes it as coppery.) Me, I don't mind. It's meat. Food. Grunt.


----------



## SueMc

65284 said:


> When we butchered hogs dad shot and stuck them then gently stepped on the rib cage pumping up and down, think CPR. An amazing amount of blood came out.


 Moving a front leg up and down like a pump handle seems to improve bleed out.


----------

