# Finally a good day for the bees.



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Got the last of the USDA trees planted, now just hoping the deer don't eat them all.
Checked the swarm I got on the 19th they seem to be doing well. I placed them on a screen bottom board so have the vac bottom to use again. think I'm going to make a second one of those.
Went to the next hive in the front yard. I got to say I have been spending time sitting by the hives in the back yard watching for drones with out seeing any. That first hive in the front yard is loaded with drones. Did the next one with the same results.
Was time for dinner so we took a break for that. In the back yard all but one of the hives were going gang busters, orenation flights. All but that one were full of bees. I think I may have a failingqueen it there even though there were a few eggs but now what you would expect froma hive with 3 deeps.

Also looked like justy about every hive over wintered on one deep in just about every case the top deep was full of honey. I pulled most all of it off replaceing it with drawn comb from my stock pile. Probably have to give it back to them when summer arrives full force.

Punched out 25 cells and placed them in a starter nuc too.

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

Al ,,, better be careful ,,, you punch out those queens , and one is going to have a boy friend that belong's to a gang ,, and he will have the gang girls put you on the sting list


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Can't find the picture right now but the cell punch tool is a simple 3/8 inch ferrel for joining copper tubing. It's one edge was sharpend a stiff wire abou tthe size of cheap coat hanger 8 inches long is soildered on one of the out side edges then a 1/4 inch 5 inch long wood dowel is drilled out some epoxy glue mixes and poured in the hole then insert the other end of the wire in there and allow it to harden. I have a chunk chicken can I put water in then a tuna fish can I put wax in. A acid brush also rounds out the equipment. Heat the water so the wax melts, slect the cell you want punch it out, brush a good amount of wax on the rearing bar and set the cell you just punched out on it allowing the brushed on wax to cool. You may have to spray the punch with some thing like PAM if the cells want to stick in the ferrel. some times heating it a bit in hot water helps.

More to this one than mine.
Cell Punches & Cell Punching, for raising queens


Simular to my set up


















 Al


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

So are you going to start selling queens as well? You're fairly close and I'd love to get some northern genetics.


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

are you telling me this is the next step to take with my queens ????? I do think I will have to try this ,,, this summer ... I think I'll try the 10 ml plastic syringe.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Maybe some day I'll start selling queens but for now they are for my own use.

Tom I suggest the 3/8 inch ferrel as the cells are easier to work with, You can use a knitting neddle to push the outer edges out of the ferrel with out doing damage to the larva/egg.

A couple of other things I use are a magnifing lens light on one of those swing arms and a heating pad under a damp towel and some times even a heating light.

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

I all ways try the hardest first and the plastic syringe would be hardest to try ,, because plastic syringes are drug related ,, so would be the hardest to get ,, cause now you almost need a doc the write a persription ( sp ) to get them ,, but any way the ferrel looks like the thing I'm going to be trying next . or Bon will tell me "" with any thing else you jump in and try ,, but with your girls you don't want to try cause you might hurt a bee """


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Guys you can get the syringes at your local farm store, for animal use only you know. > Thanks Marc


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

that never crossed my mind, guess thats why thy dont call me the brightest bulb on the block ..


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

Al ,, do you have to do any thing to the cell after its put on the bar ????? I thought I had some 3/8 inch ferrels in my plumbing ,, but smallest I had is 3/4 ,, that might be to big ,, will have to stop at lowes one day .. when I told Bon about useing a q 3/8 inch ferrel she just smiled ,,, queens are 25 bucks this year ,, 
saw this ,, what do you think of it 
""""""""Now there is a new choice for local raw honey that is closer to home than you might realize. You can purchase a HIVE SHARE and enjoy the benefits of owning your own bees that work hard to make honey for you. No risk of ever being stung! You can own a share of a beehive without risk of losing your bees to the perils of nature and at a fraction of the cost! 

I am a local beekeeper and will manage and care for your hive and deliver your honey to you year after year. This is a great option if your city does not allow beehives. I guarantee your beehive for five years! Check it out! """"""""""""


I have been retrying a few smoker fuel's that I had used in the past,, I found for some dumb reason ,, I can not get that darn thing lit ,, or keep it lit ,, except when I use the fuel i have used for three years , that is wood chips the bigger ones like used around flower's ... I get them lit in 3 min or less and they stay lit .. one day ran out of chips in the can I put them in ,, and didn't feel like walking 40 feet to were I have a large bag of them ,, so I tryed pellets that I had left over from 3 years ago ,,,30 min later the smoker was still not lit , so I went in hives with out it .. have tryed other fuels after with no luck .... any one run in to this ?????


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Tom, If you just have to try the syringes send me your mail address and I'll cut the neddles off a bunch and send them to you. I usally just take them on my VA nurse appointment once a month for her to dispose of in their hazardus waste. Up to 55 units of insulin now, and the antique meds.
They are 100MM ones and to me look really small for the job of cell punching.

Once you have the warm melted wax on the bar and the cell stuck to it just keep it warm & moist till you finish then put in a nuc with young nurse bees. I like to use frames of brood about to hatch and bees I shake in there. 95% of the time the bees build the cells into queen cells. 
After they are capped you can then scrape them off that bar gently and place a cell in a nuc.

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

Al ... thank you for the offer ,, but I thought it over and I'm going to try your way ,, I'm thinking on the same track as you ,, I know some that use insulin and they look so small and even looking at your pic , 3/8 looks like it only saves the center cell , but that's all you want to have , so how could you use any thing smaller ????


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

If you had a good steady hand you could just get the tiny egg or c shaped larva in a 100 MM syringe.

I can't see that well ( get my new glasses next friday I hope. also hope it won't interfear with catching a swarm LOL.) and my hand sure isn't steady.

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

my hand shakes and the more I try to stop or control the shaking the more I shake ,, so I wouldn't even think of that .. it goes back to about 1980 when I had a car accident ,, back injury....


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

You shouldn't have any trouble with the Ferrel. Warm it in some hot water, but don't get it hot.

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

Well Al ,,, I now have 5 hives ,, my queen thought there was more kids then she could handle ,, so I thought I better help her out ,, so I did a split ,, tues I'm going to make a nuc with a few frames of the mother hive and a honey frame from one of the others .. then the count will bee 6 , and sat I hope to add more ,,, :whistlin: :frypan: will keep you posted


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

:smack Went shopping on a cold Saturday for the stuff to build a second bee vac box.
:smack:smack Forgot two rolls of weather strip, Forgot the two eye bolts too. I hate it when I have those :hrm: elder moments and get reminded I need to write things on a list to take shopping.

Sunday worked in the bees at the tree farm, did up two splits and took them to the horse farm. At the horse farm made two more splits and took them to our Gale road yard, by then was about 5;30 PM so called it quits till 
Tuesday.

One colny at the horse farm had closed queen cells so probably would have swarmed soon. I took ten frames 8 of brood 2 of honey and shook a bunch in from other frames. When I opened it at the Gale road yard Kare said they needed a second deep all ready. I'll do that on the way home from my Nurse appointment if it isn't raining any more.

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

Al ,,, 3 queen cells on one frame ,, 2 cells on another .. I think I will try taking one off the 3 cell frame and put it on a frame .. Yes I'm tring things this year,, $25 a queen this year,, can I just put 2 frames of brood with the singel cell ,, its just an experimenter hive ?? not that I'm going to pinch her but just trying somthng new


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Yes Tom you can put one cell in a nuc with the bees and brood. Make loop out of some fine wire small enough the cell will set in it tip down but will not fall thru. leave legs on the wire loop to stick in some comb on the frame to hold it there. Once placed in the nuc do not disturb for about 20 day.

I didn't see the question on the grafting thing, sorry!!!!
Once you have the cell punched out brush some wax on the bar to stick the bottom of the cell to then place the bar with your grafts in a queen less nuc. Give them about 9 to 10 days, remove the bar, scrape off the queen cells and place them in a queen nuc as stated above.

Or you can spend the money to buy 100 of these thru mann lake.










 Al


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

Al, is there normally more than one swarm cell in a hive?


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

yes I think the norm is more then one , but then they do what and how they want 

this is not a swarm cell ,I pulled the queen off in a split ,,,,


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

Thanks tom j have a hive that totaled 3 deeps and when i opened it, it was packed full of bees, brood, and honey, plus a lot of burr comb that i felt might have been drones. On one frame was one cell that i felt looked like a queen cell, it was on the bottom 1/3 of the frame. Could not find any more queen cells. I took this frame and 4 other full ones of brood, honey, and bees and placed it in a new hive body, this was 2 days ago. I gave them syrup and broood builder patty. As you can tell i am new at this and have a lot to learn.


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

if it is a swarm cell , and you move the frame with the cell and let the old queen set in the same spot ,, they will still swarm ,, but if you pull out a few frames one with the swarm cell on put them were the hive was ,, move the rest of the hive and the OLD queen , to a new spot ( the new spot can be as close as 3 feet ) just so the old queen gets moved out of were she was ,, hope I'm not confusing you ,, what I'm saying is split the hive , move the old queen , put the new queen were the hive sat ..:awh: :smack


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

Nuts.... now i will probably end up with two empty hives. I moved the swarm cell, what you are saying makes sense tom j they are tricked into thinking the swarm happened. They have been in the new hive with the swarm cell almost 3 days now, i don't think the old hive and queen have swarmed yet. The old hive got 5 new frames and a new empty deep for more room, plus a bunch of burr comb removed sooo.... Man the old hive was going gang busters too.....


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Don't dispair all is not lost with what you did, that is probably what we all have did at one time or another.

Good move putting the single swarm cell in a second deep to build a new colony for starters. Problem is they may be crowded still so will build even more swarm cells. Its been 3 days you say so look again for a queen cell and yes they will build several most times. If you find more queen cells start looking for the queen. Once you find her put her in another deep, nuc or what ever you have on hand. Shake in a good amount of bees off frames and also add several frames of brood, eggs and honey. Put that hive, nuc where you want them in the end. Most of the nurse bees will stay with the brood and queen some of the older foragers will go back to the mother hive.

Queen cells can be just about any place in a hive. They love to hide them in corners of drawn comb. queen cells can be little short things too but normal ones are fatter at the top where they fasten to the comb then a tear drop shape hanging down with small dimples like you see on peanuts and golf balls.

Send me a E Mail at>>>>> *[email protected]*

 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Weather just isn't doing what I want it to do. Sure don't know why?

Monday I had a nurse appointment in th early afternoon, which was good that it was a raqiny day any how.

Tried to do splits Tuesday, cool 53F and cloudy, bees seemed to be ok with it but the proplis glueing the frames down was a bear not to mention the brittle bur comb flying all over the place. In fact I had to rebuild two frames when the top bars pulled loose from the end bars. after two colonys I just gave up.

Wednesday was a nice day although hot and humid setting a new record high for the day at 88F, Problem was I had a eye doctor appointment, and new glasses to get adjusted. that took a couple hours right in the middle of the day so we didn't get any thing done. 

Thursday Kare had to take her turn setting with her mother and fixing a couple of meals for her. She had fell a couple weeks ago and broke a collor bone and a few ribs.
It was sunny again hot and humid too but the forecast waqs calling for rain. I did yard work till about 3:30 in the afternoon when it started raining for a bit. Set a record high for the day again 89F.

Went thru all of April with little rain but to cold I felt to be having hives open long. Just the amount of rain we got thursday afternoon and during the night set a new record rain fall amount for both Thursday and Friday, made up the short fall of rain in April and equal to Junes monthy rain fall too.

Many schools, colleges, interstate hy ways were closed. Many homes were flooded as were regular surface streets and roads. 

Fellow bee keeper west of me a ways, former president of Michingan Bee Keepers lost many colonies of bees to the flooding the news reported. It also flooded his honey house where he normaly extracts 15 tons of honey a year the news reported.

Again today it is cloudy and rain in the forecast again.
Still it is to be warmer than Monday so will try to get more splits done.

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

Al ,,, I was told by the auctioneer that there were 10 LIVE hives,, drove 120 miles one way ,, jamie drove 60 one way ,, then the 10 hives was 12 boxs , mixed , deeps , meds , salows 2 bottoms, 3 tops , but they was alive ---------11 years ago ,, extracktor was half there ,, what was there had been through heck ,, no lid no crank ,, needless to say didn't have to take out my back seat tie it to the trunk so I could put hives in the back seat .. :awh::awh: 
rained to day so in the hives was out any way


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Tom you are saying you drove that distance only to learn there was a mix of bee keeping boxes and they were mostly crap?
Cleared up here yesterday afternoon so we knocked out two more bee yards. One colony in one of the yards had swarmed, torn down queen cells. all over in the top box. I believe they planing on swarming again as I found cells not torn down some still open with the queen larva and some capped. Found the queen and set her up in a new hive.

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

rain again today ,, it must be spring ,, but I do need a day again to go through the hive ,, want to check on the queen cells .

only to learn there was a mix of bee keeping boxes and they were mostly crap?----------- No not mostly ,,,,,, ALL ,, the funny thing was , I was kind of perturbed but there were a few that was MMMAAADD about there not being any live hives .... but it was only 120 miles one way ,, could have been 220 but I would have stayed home if it was 220 .. was surprised ,, a lot of keepers were there ...


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

My wife and i had a chance to go through the old hive today and look for the queen. Alas try as we might we could not find her. We did find more swarm cells and i believe that they have not swarmed yet as the hive was still very much full of bees. We pulled each frame and examined them closely but could not find her. We checked most carefully on the frames in the bottom that had brood and pollen in them. We took the new hive body that we just put together and set it up about 10ft. from the first hive just in case they swarm and find that inviting.

The 2nd hive that i put the swarm cell in was also checked and the swarm cell was still there and intact with no openings. 

Should we check the hive again tomorrow if it is not raining? And should we use just syrup and mist the bees instead of using smoke as we did today? 

Also we saw several worker bees that had a red dot on their head, not on their abdomen but on the head, what could that be, mites are normally on the abdoment right?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

We are supposed to get rain today and it is really overcast here. Working the bees with out smoke today I feel would be a bugger. If you can swing the time Tuesday it is supposed to be much nicer.

Take another deep, pull each frame and inspect it closely. when finished inspecting it bottom bar end bars and all set it in the other deep. When you see bees wadded up for lack of a better term gently blow on them they usally uncover eacgh other then. Set the then empty deep on that other deep after you have looked at all the girls still on the side and end walls. Got thru the last deep one frame at a time and place the frames in the empty top deep. If you still havn't found the queen reverese the steps only this time shake off nearly all the bees and search for queen cells. they love to hide them in the bottom corner near the top bar in the middle too. Set those aside and continue looking for that queen. If you reach frame 20 going back in and still haven't found her make up a new colony with those queen cell frames then shake in enough bees to cover the brood in the newly made up hive. Place honey supers on the hive you just finished putting back together.

Don't neglect to look on the frames that are all honey. it is an old wives tale the queen will not cross or be on a frame of honey.

I have several colonies I have never ever seen the queen in. Those black carnolion queens are a bear to find. The smoky colored SMR carnolion, and our own Karenolion queens are a bear to find too.
Best and easiest seem to be the Itialian bright yellow queens.

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

Al sent you a Visitor Message


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Got it Tom thanks for the jelly Idea.

What a mite looks like on some drone brood. Once all the queens I am going to raise are mated, I use a capping fork on the drone brood to look for these mites.










A second genration Itialian queen. Notice not all the workers are faceing her like all the books would have you believe.










Pick out this Karenolion queen, again not all the workers are faceing her. 
Also notice how much longer she is than the worker to her upper left.










This one is a Itialian. She is just off the tip of my gloved finger.










Carnolion on uncapped honey & capped honey.



















 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

A couple more.



















See all that honey that isn't capped? A good size compairism too











Thats all for today. Hope it helps. Another thing I have found is that young unmated queens and those that have just started laying will run around like a chicken with its head cut off. After they have been laying a month or two they seem to settle down.

 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Kare had a thought when I was talking to her about the missing queen. She said to look in the box where you put the cell. I know it is hard to find her when there are 90,000 bees running around like crazy. 
Kare also mentioned that Tuesday it is supposed to be sun shine so many foragers woill be gone from the hive and around 2:00 PM they do the orentation flights here so there is less in the hive too.

 Al


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

Thanks for your help Al and Kare too! I had wondered about that also, putting the queen in the new hive and so checked there too and could not find her. Of course i could have missed her in the new one too! She is a year old so she is not a new queen. The original hive seemed settled when we first opened it up, not real aggressive like i have read them to be when queenless, making me think she is in there, i am just not finding her. It amazes me how most of those bees just go about their work even with their home being torn apart.


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

It will be 5ish Tue. when we get another chance to look, rain here today, and i have to work until 4pm so that is the plan for now at least.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

If they are queen less and there are no queen cells they get buzzy like really loud. Other than that they seem a very content bunch except for a vary few that want to buzz around your face.


 Al


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

My wife and I spent 2hrs. going throught that hive again, and could not locate the queen. We did find one swarm cell but no others. We removed the frame with the queen cell and placed it in a new hive. We pulled 6 other frames of brood and honey and placed them with the queen cell. We checked these frames throughly (we hope) for the queen before putting them in the new hive. We placed a syrup feeder and some brood builder patties on the new hive. Placed a queen excluder on the original hive along with a honey super. I hope we did more good than harm. 

We did find a few mites mostly on the drones and opened drone brood, what is the proper course of action on this at this point?


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

Al ,, do you like the blonde queens or black ;;; and why ???? I like blond .. 


hows Kare's mom doing ????


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

K 9 you did the right thing. I my self might have even placed2 supers above the brood. That way things should spread out enough finding the queen easier might work. At this point finding the queen is no longer a requirement how ever. The mites!!! isn't much you can do with honey supers on. You can dust them with powdered sugar, screen bottom boards required. You can use drone comb and rotate it from the hive to the freezer for 24 hours every 20 days or so. 
In the fall I use formic acid (used to be Mite away II.) not sure what they call the strips as I had enough for last spring (2011) and skiped the fall treatment and this spring. 
Haven't seen a mite on any of the drone cells I have opened this spring. 
Follow the directions, do it in the spring and in the fall. You can treat any colonies you do not plan on putting honey supers now.

Tom I like all the queens we have now. every one is our very own breed from our slected stock KARENOLIONS. Most started several years ago as SMR CARNOLOINS dauthers. Kare keeps the records but I bet most of our queens are from stock we knew swarmed from a tree or a building and had lived there with out treatments for several years.

I much prefur the smoky girls personally. Not as hard to find as the black ones and when installing a new queen in a clony they girls seem to except them really well.










The orange ones are easist to find, their good queens to but I just like the smoky ones.

Kares mom is doing some better. Her oldest daughter peeled potaoes Sunday then Mom used a mandlin to slice them for scollped potoes and ham. 
:hysterical: Last I was there she was complaining about how diffcult it was to eat left handed and I told her there were millions who though eating right handed was a royal pain. Now she is sclicing potoes on a mandlin left handed.
Her spirits have improved too. We will see her sunday for Mothers day, Kare will see her Thursday her turn at sitting with her.

One of my colonies yesterday was so strong I removed 10 frames of brood with at least one queen cell on each. Shook them into a seprate hive going thru it twice and saw no queen like K9. Going back today with 2 honey supers to place on them. So with the 10 frames of drawn comb and another 16 frames in the honey super they should spread out enough I find her.Then check again for more queen cells.
Only 5 more colonies to finish hopefully today, but the high is supposed to only hit 60F. 

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

good to hear that her Mom is doing better .. I still have to pull a cell for a nuc , was going to to day but ,, was kind of a bad day ,, just didn't feel up to it .. will see how it goes another day ..


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Got to the remaining colony at our Gale road bee yard under cloudy skies. Started sprinkling as were going in the drive way but stopped by the time we got back to the hives. Kare had me put a second deep on a single deep split colony from the tree farm they were so strong. Then I went in to that last remaining colony that was the fathers day 2010 clean up from the streets of Flint so I really wanted a daughter from that queen. Went thru the hive suprizing they were gentle going abou their business despite the dark clouds and thunder in the distance.

I removed 10 frames with eggs and a lot of honey to be pulled at a latter date. Just as I was closeing them up the rain started fall on the light side. My cell rang and it was a friend also a bee keeper. Said he had a swarm he just couldn't capture and I could have them if I brought a vac to get them.
Drove thru some heavy rain and hail on the way home, still raining at home so I just waited about till it stopped. I then took the split out back, then started gathering the vac stuff I would need hoses the top and bottom of the vac set up, the vac it's self and the genorator.

I got to my friends place soon after under clearing skys. that swarm was 25 feet away from his hives across the lane in a thorn apple tree about chest high. He had a ddep with drawn comb plus a medium setting againest the tree. He showed me where he had whacked the trunk several times knocking them into the hive and medium bodies. I started vacuming them and they were really cranky but I chalked that up the the weather when one stung my fore head. Got my helmit and veil on and went back to vacuming. they stunng both my exposed hands a few times and I decided once they settle down ther ewill be a new smoky queen running that hive.
Nearing the end I see lots of wax on the trunk so I say how long they bin there Bob? He replys a week. well no wonder they were cranky.

I got them in the hive, closed it up and set it in the truck. It started to pour with thunder and lighting. Wejumped into the truck to wait it out. I left both the gen set running and the vac. Once the rain stopped I got out to find the heat from both running had dried both out a bunch.

That was one big swarm about 10 pounds of bee I guess. Don't have a clue why they didn't go into Bobs set up.

 Al


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