# How to ruin a LGD



## Lonesomelov (Jul 14, 2009)

My husband and I lost our prize Saxony hen a week ago and I finally gave in to my husbands wishes of getting a LGD. We have two Czech German Shepherds that live in the house 24/7. I was raised with dogs in the house and being a part of the family. Well it took me losing an animal but I relented and told him I would do the best I could to leave the dog outside and not love on it. We bought a little 7 week old Pyrenees/Anatolian female that we named Phoenix two days ago. Well this is her first day outside in the backyard with no other dogs, just the geese and ducks. The geese chase and nip her in the hind end so she mainly sits on the deck and cries. Is this okay? Is she too young to be outside? What should I be doing? Can I love on her and play with her? It is raining right now or I would put one of my GSD's out with her (they don't like the rain). I am fighting everything in my system that wants to scoop her up and love on her. What do I do? Please help!


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

I hate to say it but this is the beginning of many problems. You don't just "stick" a puppy out there and expect things too work just because they are a lgd breed, add a couple months and she will be killing the ducks. The geese may be safe because she has been bit and scared by them so she will likely make that association for life. These dogs do not bond to the birds like they would a flock or sheep. They do not get the same interaction with a bird. When you watch a LGD with sheep or goats and they interact with each other, sleep together, lick each other, form a bond and a language between the two of them for those reason. They don't get that same stimulation from birds. Your geese will harass this puppy none stop, mine harass my adult dogs all day if given the chance and thats just cruel for the puppy to be terrified all the time. If your going to make this puppy an outdoor dog you need to provide it somewhere safe to be away from the birds but able to see them, then your going to have to put in the time to train it so it doesn't kill any of the birds as it gets older. It can work out, many lgds do guard poultry and eventually it will claim your yard as its territory and guard everything in it. In 2-3 years don't be surprised if you have some issues between your shepherds and her especially if you have more then one female. LGDs like to be the dominant dog and so do most shepherds. I am curious how much land you have, if its a small lot I would probably just make the dog a part time pet and move it outside when it get a little older. Most LGD breeds make that move fine as they prefer the outdoors and they will guard the birds by guarding the whole property. You can use your time now to teach it basic obedience and to be quiet, if she takes after the pyr side get used to her barking all night. They are notorious runner so I hope you have a good fence already in place or its time to start thinking about one.


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## Lonesomelov (Jul 14, 2009)

We have 15 acres and do plan on getting a couple of goats, pigs and maybe a cow.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

She should take to the livestock easily but the problem is you don't have them now. 15 acres is a pretty small parcel in a LGD's mind so even if she is not "bonded" to them like a dog out on range needs to be she will guard them as she guards her territory. I say love up on her but keep her an outside dog but thats just what I would do. At 7 weeks she is too young to wander the 15 acres and guard from predators. Use this time you have with her to teach her a "leave it" command and basic obedience.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Lonesomelov, Jason is absolutely correct. She is too young to be out alone expecting to do the job an LGD was bred for. Yes, she will have a variety of inborn-instincts she will be wanting to follow...some you may not like. Each of the two breeds she originates from have their own and now she has to reconcile both. As young as she is she will look outside herself in order to find out how to do this; and what will she find???

You are in for some heavy/consistent training for several years to come!

I, too, am new to the LGD dog; so you can take what I say with caution. I purchased a Bulgarian Karakachan a few months back. She was only 8 weeks old and I have regretted not letting her stay longer with her dam and litter mates only because she could have learned from them what I have been having to teach her myself. 

My major focus has been to provide this puppy with a *safe* place to explore and learn what was ok and not ok to do. I, like you, initially worried about the bonding issue as I wanted her to bond with my herd of Nubians. Yet, I've come to the conclusion a puppy (alone) will have a hard time bonding with anything if it does not feel safe! Thus, I love up on her; but do so in a way that teaches her how to "sit", "lay down", "roll over", "stay" while she "happily" experiences it is appropriate for me to touch her all over, i.e. open her mouth, look between her toes, stroke her belly, look for ticks and comb her. David taught her the leash by taking her on daily ventures around the parameter of our little 6 acre fencing. 

Now, I have not forced her to stay anywhere for any length of time; yet at the young age of nearly 4 months, she is already roaming (and sleeping during heat of day) with the goats as well as our 30 assorted fowl. She has NO prey drive and that has helped a lot. And with our little 6 acres, there is no way she cannot learn to protect all that is here. 

I suspect with the mixed breed you have, her training/bonding would be similar to my Karakachan in that a puppy is a puppy is a puppy...simply needing to feel safe where it is living so it can discover its own propensities as well as learn the boundaries you set up. I wish you the best with her.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

She is too young to leave her mama. Then, you stick her outside all alone. Even though she is a large puppy she can't defend her self and something could kill her, maybe whatever is killing your birds. She needs to interact with your dogs. Consider that you have three dogs, one that needs love and protection and guidance. The GSDs should be with her so they can mentor her. You can rotate them all, having one dog and puppy together at a time, but you can't just leave her unsupervised when she is inside or outside. 

As long as she feels comfortable outside, she can become a dog that stays outside all night or all day, and may even come to prefer staying outside. Puppies have specific development schedules. She needs to be around the animal she is expected to protect by the time she is 16 weeks old. She has been exposed to the poultry, but is having a bad experience with them. So, she will accept them as belonging to the home, but it's not likely she will "bond" to them. By the time her prey drive kicks in (it kicks in later than it does in other breeds) she will not see the geese and ducks as prey. If you want her to bond to goats, then she needs to be exposed to goats within the next few weeks.

I really think you should bring her back to the breeder and wait until you are ready to have the goats, pigs, and cow. The mental development between a seven week old puppy and a ten week old puppy is huge. When you get your goats, get an older puppy (10 weeks to 6 months, for instance) that has been raised with these animals and you will be saving yourself a lot of grief. You may even be able to find an adult that has been guarding goats, but the owners have to give it up.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

This farm's home page says it all....

We sell puppies : 12 weeks old

Exposed dogs leave at 5 months of age

Started dogs leave the farm at 12 months

Finished working dogs - from 20 months to adult

http://windancefarms.com/services


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

The pup has no training, neither from you, it's mom or it's breeder. Aint gonna miracle it, not sure with that mix Jason maybe right about the geese.
If I took a pup and put it out with steers at that age alone, it would get hurt or learn to really hate them. Then when it was old enough, they would push it, the kill switch would engage, and there would be bloody livestock all around _(In your case lot of roast goose for supper)_
Unfortunate parallel: This is basically the same way a pup gets turned into a man killer, they get beat/smacked _(instead of trained)_ for every little thing, & they dont understand why? Until one day they just had enough, and they explode into defending themselves. Then they get dumped at the shelter as an aggressive dog, when they were just tired of being bullied!
Good luck with the pup


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

LGDs don't guard chickens. They "guard" their territory and the chickens may happen to be within that area. You have a puppy, not a LGD, You either need to get an older dog or find a person to help train yours with goats or sheep that they will bond with and guard. Your LGD is a good year off at least. 

Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh, but there's a reason for the system most people use with LGDs, Look at the bright side, you have a nice pup!


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