# Large Black Hogs



## Dieselrider (Jul 8, 2008)

Does anyone here have experience raising this breed? My wife has done a lot of reading on line and the breed characteristics sound really good. However I would like some input from folks who have raised them that are not just trying to push the breed, Pros and cons welcome. I have raised commercial type Yorkshire and Hampshire crosses before in small areas. We want to raise these on pasture and we are being told that we can feed adults about 4 pounds of grain per day and they will forage for their remaining needs. They do take longer to reach butcher size. Is this the only reason the industry has rejected them? Thanks for your input in advance.:walk:


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## RedHogs (Jul 7, 2006)

I have had experience with several of the heritage breeds over the last few years and mainly with purebred boars. I cross them with commercial production females. The large black was a very good hog, it had many good points and several bad points. All hogs do.

The large black boar grew very quickly on a pasture paddock, hay, and free choice grain (16% gestation sow feed) to 250-275 pounds.... at that point hed started getting sloppy fat... He could not be run with gilts because they were on free choice grain. I noticed that he stepped real short when he was fat, that tells me that his hips would go bad quickly if he was allowed to get real heavy. I penned him with another young boar and bucket fed him. He maintained good weight on minimal feed compared to my duroc boars. He would eat 75% of what they needed.

Personality wise, he was a puppy dog with me, but he was hell bent on being the top dog when another hog came near. If he encountered a 500 lb boar, I sure he would fight to the death. He was one of the the most aggressie breeding boars I have ever owned. Breeding aggression is the most important quality of a boar on a farm with alot of sows. Some people on this board will attack this term not having enough experience to unterstand that breeding aggression is not the same as agressive behavior. The industry uses the term breeding agression instead of saying "_horny_", all that boar wanted in life was sex. It was more important than eating to him, he would lose weight when I bred him alot in one month. This quality gave me alot of litters with large numbers with only one boar. Again let me say he was an extremely agressive breeder and a puppy dog of a hog to people.

His main fault was expense and being very rare. I doubt any hog is more used in fraud than the Large black. They are extremely rare, but you can buy them all over the place without papers. If he don't have papers, he's not a large black. The are so expensive, nobody is going to sell them without papers, A hamp and duroc will throw a pure black hog with flop ears, Berks and polands in the mix can throw pure blacks. but that dosn't make them large blacks.

Trust papers only and expect to pay top dollar, but they are good hogs.

Avoid GOS hogs, they are the worst heritage breed... I would rather pay twice the money for a large balck.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

We have one sow that appears to be a Large Black. I say appears because I know she is not pure bred but she has all the traits. She's an excellent sow and we're crossing her in through our herds. She is not as large as our main lines which are predominantly Yorkshire (Large White).

She does excellently on pasture, farrows and weans large litters, has 16 teats and keeps her condition up even with having rapid litters. She breeds very quickly. This all puts together to producing more piglets per year than any of our other sows. She also has a fine temperament. Her offspring carry her excellent traits and grow faster than her - she's bred with our predominantly Yorkshire boars.

The negatives I see on her are minor: the slightly slower growth rate compared with our other sows, the black hairs (hard to make look completely cleaned on scald & scrape for roasters) and the flopped ears (I prefer upright and smaller for our climate). She is a little stockier than I like but I have offspring from her that have the longness of our mainlines and that is where I'm aiming.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
Save 30% off Pastured Pork with free processing: http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project: http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I would say that local availability of breeding stock should be a consideration.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Thirty years ago, I bought a pair of Large Black gilts from a friend that had them imported frrom Canada. I also bought a landrace boar. 
When he couldn't get them bred, we butchered him an d sold the English Blacks to a pig farmer. He couldn't get them bred either. Maybe just bad luck.

However, I've been looking for a couple Large Blacks over the past couple years. I'm hearing a lot of, "Well, we thought she was going to have a litter, but I guess she didn't get bred." Makes me wonder that since they do command a high price, everyone is breeding everything they've got, not nessessarly breeding quality?


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

tinknal said:


> I would say that local availability of breeding stock should be a consideration.


Good point. That is how we ended up with what we have, including the one large black sow. Buying locally from someone who raises them the way you plan to raises them means you are getting a step up in the genetics, they're adapted to your climate and management goals.


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## RedHogs (Jul 7, 2006)

out of fairness to the OP and all of those people who have put in the effort, time, and substaintial amount of money into a purebred and verifiable "large black".... Please don't call a mutt black hog a "large black"...

"Large black" is a very rare and expensive breed, not a description, the hogs are very long and deep sided with uncommonly long legs compared to modern commercial hogs... they are most closely related in appearance to a dansih landrace. they are *not* stocky like hamps... which is where most of the black hogs you see get their color.

The question about fertility is valid, I have also heard people say that the sows won't breed consistently or breed back as quick as a modern breeds... don't expect huge litters consistently back to back.... heritage brees will not do what modern commercial sows can do.... that is part of the trade off.

I used heritage boars on commercial sows to keep my litter numbers up.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

If I remember correctly, the Large Blacks had two or four more teets. My "plan" was to put a long lean Landrace boar on a Large Black sow to get large litters with a higher weaning weight, but with less of the excessive lard that makes the Large Blacks less desireable.

But that was before anyone was on the heritage breed bandwagon. Now, the big money is in purebred heritage hogs and a productive cross wouldn't get you that return.

There is Large Black association, I think it is www.blackhog.com, but you can google it, too. They list breeders. Expect a waiting list.


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## RedHogs (Jul 7, 2006)

yeah, I bailed out pretty quick also.... there was not profit in the crossbred growers. My intention was to forage my annual crops on some of the land that was not suitable for row cropping, but land I could still get a good amount of feed off. The problem was that the durocs could grow out twice in one year with supplemental feed. That is two uses of the same paddock during the growing season, 9 months or so, but the crosses would require the paddock to be in use 365 days a year because they grew slower, they required less feed, but the land damage was much greater in the winter and they went to market much lighter weight. 

The only reason I would have heritage hogs again would be to sell purebreds as breeding stock.


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## Tsyogal (Dec 30, 2009)

RedHogs said:


> Avoid GOS hogs, they are the worst heritage breed...


What's your objection to GOS? Just curious--I have no first-hand experience with the breed.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

My interest is not in "pure-bred" but rather than in performance. We cross and select the best of the best to breed each generation. The rest go to the butcher.

About 5% of the females and about 0.5% of the males get a chance to test breed. This improves our herds so each generation is better. Call it evolution or selective breeding - same thing. Play Mother Nature. The result is better pasturing, gentle temperament, improved litter size and weight, marbling, length, etc. We do this for our feed, management and climate. Someone else in a totally different climate with different resources would produce a different pig. That is how breeds were developed.

Do I care if Blackie is a "pure-bred" Large Black? No. I care that she is a superior pig and so are her selected offspring we keep for breeding.

Breed the best of the best and eat the rest.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
Save 30% off Pastured Pork with free processing: http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project: http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop


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## HeritagePigs (Aug 11, 2009)

"Avoid GOS hogs, they are the worst heritage breed"

C'mon, RedHogs. You had one bad experience with GOS and still try to slam the breed. All of your other points are good but give the cute spotted pigs a break, ay?

GOS are perhaps the best heritage breed. They are better on pasture than Large Blacks, they have large roasts and hams as well as lots of pork belly, they are as hardy as any hog, the most docile breed I've ever encountered, good sized litters that easily make it to weaning...not to mention the cutest piglets on the planet.

Large Black hogs are still our best sellers, though, and for good reasons. I just can't breed enough of these little elephants 

The Large Black herd in the U.S. has made some great progress over the past year; going from a few hundred registered hogs to almost 900. The inbreeding coefficient has gone from an average of 24% to 14%. Litter sizes are up with 10 being common; there were several 13 piglet litters last year. All of this is due to the work of the Large Black Hog Association members and knowledgable customers who are selecting the best available. 

You do need to be selective, however, as several people jumped in thinking of the profits and sold every piglet as breeding stock. But I am seeing those breeders disappear from the ranks since they were in it for the wrong reasons and their reputations suffered. 

Large Blacks are the best hogs you can choose for pork belly; when you can get three feet off of each hog they become very tempting for chefs. Their hams and roasts are relatively small and that's why Large Black crosses are in demand for the pork market. Cross a Large Black with a Hamp or Duroc and you've got a really good pork hog.

All of my Large Black sows have sixteen teats and good sized litters. But it took me several years (and lots of driving as well as culling) to build my herd.

One more point. RedHogs is right when he talks about Large Blacks getting fat. If you give them free choice grain they will live up to their name. You have to make pasture or hay their main feed with supplementation only as needed to keep them in good condition. I like to think of my breeding stock as athletes and keep them in that shape; known to experienced hog breeders as body condition 3. Fat hogs don't make good breeders. You can't use modern, commercial breeds as a standard when you are considering heritage hogs. I have a post on my blog that explains why this matters.

Brian


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## DWH Farm (Sep 1, 2010)

We have several breeds as well as Large Blacks and the LB's are by FAR our favorites. Alot of that is their dispositions, they are like big dogs. They are also easy keepers. Our other breeds need alot more feed than the LB's to stay in the same condition and dont utilize the pasture/hay as well. Although we do see the LB traits in the crosses from those breeds.. I think that they are a great choice for a homestead/pasture based setting and the meat is phenominal. We are huge fans of the breed and as long as we have pigs on are farm there will be LB's.


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## HeritagePigs (Aug 11, 2009)

Speaking of which, do you still have any of your young boars left? I would like one registered as I need another boar and I really like your hogs. You guys do it right.


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## RedHogs (Jul 7, 2006)

> C'mon, RedHogs. You had one bad experience with GOS


Actually I had two bad experiences with GOS breeders that were basically online scam artist and cheted me out of my money...

I picked up a GOS Piglet about 2-3 months ago and he's proving to be a real good little boar.

I'm gonna let a friend take and him and AI train him... I can have AI doses off him in about 60 days...

Time will tell on him, I have had problems getting heritage hogs to collect on a dummy.

Heritage in name only... he's going to be in a climate controlled barn and get a bath twice a week with warm water.


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## HeritagePigs (Aug 11, 2009)

So, do you own one of the worst heritage hogs?


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## DWH Farm (Sep 1, 2010)

HeritagePigs said:


> Speaking of which, do you still have any of your young boars left? I would like one registered as I need another boar and I really like your hogs. You guys do it right.


Thanks Brian! We have been very happy with the offspring that we have gotten out of this pair. We have a boar left out of our Oct litter. We castrated the others but saved this one back. He is going to make a good one. We are going to be looking for a different boar line also, maybe we could work out a trade..


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## RedHogs (Jul 7, 2006)

> So, do you own one of the worst heritage hogs?


I don't know... If he will not collect off the dummy...This has been a very expensive mistake ... again.

He would be fine to breed in the field I'm sure...

As for the best or worst, they do show the inbreeding more than any hog I've had contact with.

Brian, you just keep singing their praises and I'll sell AI to your converts...

I don't care, it's supply and demand

I don't play the small over big politics games you play...

I want to sell to both groups... and by being honest about their flaws, the client will be happy


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## HeritagePigs (Aug 11, 2009)

RedHogs we welcome anyone who has AI semen but will have to be careful to not use it on too many. If this works for you do it with several good, unrelated boars and you may have the start of a good business.

And, someday, maybe I'll save you from the dark side...


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