# Deep bedding, how do you clean it out?



## Maxpowers (Apr 4, 2012)

I've been doing the deep bedding method and the cleanup is horrible. At this point I've only tried a flat metal snow shovel. The bottom layer comes up as a ridiculously heavy mat. A bucket loader would be the obvious choice but I don't have one. Oh and I'm on a dirt floor.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

How deep is the bedding? What did you use for bedding? I use a 5 tine fork. I use a little shavings or chips on the bottom and bed with short hay. I usually have less than 6", if more I clean out sooner. I have found that shearing about now keeps the wet to a minimum, takes a lot less bedding....James


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

OH, and clean out while wet, dry and packed is tough....James


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Deep bedding, should be dry and fluffy if done right, at least how I was taught by a good Vet a number of years ago. Easy to clean, no smell.

Sounds like yours has been packed in but I am sure it is no where near as bad as the one I had to deal with.

My husband, another friend, I , helped a friend out, that had this happen in her barn. 
It was back breaking work cleaning out her small barn, was horrible in all honesty. Was nearly 6" of packed in muck... stunk to high heaven. Took a whole day. 
After that, I decided I would just pick out the manure every morning. Takes about 10 minutes and much easier to deal with. 

Only thing I can recommend, is get some friends together, a few flat bladed shovels and clean as you can.


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## Maxpowers (Apr 4, 2012)

The top is dry and it never really seems that deep. I use straw and it seems to really compress/compost? I can throw straw down all winter and it never gets too tall. The smell in the barn is never bad either. But that bottom layer is probably 1-2" thick, wet and smells horrible as you peel it up. 

During the summer I do spot cleanings and don't lay it on too thick. I then do a cleaning down to the dirt and lime it in the fall. I don't think I can clean it all winter because it's frozen. So in the spring I do another down to the dirt cleaning and that one suuuucccks.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Maybe put some pigs in there to loosen it up for you?


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

There are a few simple truths in life. One of them is that you never get anything for free. Another is that if you want a clean barn, you have to clean the barn. Another one is that 99.99999% of the deep bedding advocates have it turn into a manure pack and it's simply a bear to remove. I don't know what your barn in like but you have few choices. You can get a bunch of friends together, offer a big feed in exchange for labor, hire a bunch of Amish or Mexicans or hire a skid loader. The skid loader is the fastest and will likely turn out to do the job more completely. Otherwise you get a 5 tine fork and start ripping and tearing and trying not to bust the fork handle. There is no EASY way to get it out. 

Pigs will not do the job like people say unless they are young pigs and you have a lot of corn down in the bedding.

Once you've got it out you still have a problem. Dirt floors are a problem. If you can put down 12-18" or so of sawdust or chips you can bed on top of that. Come spring it'll be 4-6" of wet, soggy sawdust or chips. On top of that will be a compacted mass of poop. hay and bedding. Or, you can put down the sawdust and get in there daily and clean it up completely, the hay and poop I mean. 

Those are pretty much your choices.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

For loosening the pack, how would a small dozer blade on an ATV or BCS do? I'm considering getting the dozer blade for my BCS to do some minor grading work. On dirt floors you could use a rototiller, but it would still be nasty, and you'll tear up the dirt floor too.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Use a garden fork, the kind with flat tines. Usually the mat is in layers and can be rolled/peeled up. The other tool I have used a lot for this job is a fire rake.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

dlskidmore said:


> For loosening the pack, how would a small dozer blade on an ATV or BCS do? I'm considering getting the dozer blade for my BCS to do some minor grading work. On dirt floors you could use a rototiller, but it would still be nasty, and you'll tear up the dirt floor too.


If you have a manure/bedding pack over 2-4" deep it's a waste of money and time. I've tried it on a Gravely. I've tried a chainsaw. I've tried a tiller. I've tried using a horse plow and cultivators. A manure pack is akin to dried clay as far as tilling goes. What works is a skid steer or a bunch of forking. Garden forks, the standard type I've tried will not penetrate the pack unless the whole thing is soaking wet. 

I'm sorry to rain on anyones parade, but there is no easy way to clean a manure pack out of a barn. The deeper it is, the smaller/lower the barn is the harder it is to clean it.

My skid steer has been down for most of the spring and summer. I have a manure pack, almost pure dried sheep and horse manure, to remove. I will push it out with a small bulldozer (JD40C) and load with the skid steer. The finish work will be done with hand tools, something that is always necessary.


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## wannalive (Aug 29, 2013)

I have done the deep litter for years and never had this problem.. but I have only done it with chickens, maybe that is the difference. I would assume the main problem is the dirt floor...but imo I would rather have a big job a time or 2 a year, than a constant small job... but to each their own.. hope you figure out a easy way to work it out.. good luck


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

I don't believe in the whole "deep bedding " method the barn gets cleaned daily with a serious clean every change of seasons , all barns smell but I perfer my method as compared to stench . That would just make me want to spend less time there than more and the whole reason I have animals is to enjoy their care and well being .


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

I do deep bedding in the winter, and love it. I use wood shavings/mulch though. I used to use straw, but hated it due to your problem--it mats, is a bear to remove in the "rolls," and the smell was much worse. Wood shavings absorb the nitrogen and keep the smell gone better than straw. It still gets matted on the bottom, but is much easier to clean up. I have used a pitchfork in the past, but this spring we will be using pigs to churn it up and loosen it before we scoop. You're supposed to throw down plenty of corn between bedding layers so it ferments over winter, and the pigs love it. We are also planning to buy a wood chipper next year, which will hopefully cut down what we are investing in wood shavings. They are a lot pricier than straw, which is their downside. I am also trying to hook up with the county department to have them deliver their mulchings here. A lot of places do that for a no to minimal fee.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

I do deep bedding in winter (for sheep and goats) as well. It doesn't stink if you have a dry layer on top. Keeps the animals warmer, and is easier for me in winter. It's not fun to clean out, but that's life. I may do a mid-winter clean out this year if we get some warmish weather.


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## Tabitha (Apr 10, 2006)

I once had a heavy layer, the thought alone caused me to get depressed. I put pigs in the barn, they turned it to fluff and I shoveled it out with a snow shovel.


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## trainv (Apr 30, 2013)

clean before it gets to this point! I keep mine cleaned on a regular bases.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

IMO, and no offense to y'all, but to me, sheep do not belong in a barn in the first place. I live in a cold place. My sheep stay outside year round. They feed on hay in the winter, and they use the waste for their bedding, outside on the land where it belongs.

The only time my sheep go inside voluntarily is when it rains REALLY hard, or involuntarily if a ewe is having issues at lambing. Otherwise they sleep out under the stars.

Just bringing this up as a potential option rather than having a manure/bedding pack issue to have to clean out of a barn. Been there done that, and learned from it well. lol. Sheep belong outside IMO. It avoids so many health issues and manure issues. Then one has not to worry about cleaning out a barn so much. Something to consider maybe???


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Bringing sheep off pasture at night into a secure enclosure has it's advantages. If you have a good guardian or low predator pressure doing without a barn is an option, but I have a verry small flock and bears have been sighted east and west of me.


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## Farmerjonathan (Mar 11, 2013)

Someone already said it. Pigs. When my daughter farrowed, I would move a sow into a box stall that needed cleaning. Manure pack that you could barely stab the tines into, a sow will walk in with her nose down and like a V plow break it right up to munch on grain found. Feeder pigs need to be over 60 pounds then they start really working the manure. I have feeder calves in a big pen in the barn for the winter, they can come and go, but they prefer to poop inside. So then in spring I put in a batch of feeder pigs. If they are slow to get started rooting, I go in with a crow bar, poke it down and whirl it around to make a hole that is funnel shaped, pour a handful of shelled corn down the hole. Make a dozen holes and pour shelled corn down them. If they slow down on rooting, throw a handful or two of shelled corn on the top and they will go at it again. What you can end up with is some of the most beautiful composted manure, you will think it is potting soil. If it gets a little dusty in the barn, wet down the pen. They will keep turning it over and what you couldn't pry out with a pitchfork at the end of the summer you will be able to easily scoop out with a scoop shovel. It's all part of the rotation and your pork will be muscled nicely and DELICIOUS!!


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## Maxpowers (Apr 4, 2012)

My sheep only go in the barn voluntarily. I leave the door open leading to the pasture pretty much year round. In the winter they are smart enough to realize that (A) they can't eat the frozen ground, (B) the barn is where the hay shows up everyday. I actually put the hay outside, about 20 feet from the door. This leads to a lot of indoor time during the winter. Even during the summer they come back to rest inside at night as the sun goes down.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

Farmerjonathan said:


> Someone already said it. Pigs. When my daughter farrowed, I would move a sow into a box stall that needed cleaning. Manure pack that you could barely stab the tines into, a sow will walk in with her nose down and like a V plow break it right up to munch on grain found. Feeder pigs need to be over 60 pounds then they start really working the manure. I have feeder calves in a big pen in the barn for the winter, they can come and go, but they prefer to poop inside. So then in spring I put in a batch of feeder pigs. If they are slow to get started rooting, I go in with a crow bar, poke it down and whirl it around to make a hole that is funnel shaped, pour a handful of shelled corn down the hole. Make a dozen holes and pour shelled corn down them. If they slow down on rooting, throw a handful or two of shelled corn on the top and they will go at it again. What you can end up with is some of the most beautiful composted manure, you will think it is potting soil. If it gets a little dusty in the barn, wet down the pen. They will keep turning it over and what you couldn't pry out with a pitchfork at the end of the summer you will be able to easily scoop out with a scoop shovel. It's all part of the rotation and your pork will be muscled nicely and DELICIOUS!!



What you put into the animal is what you get out ! I'd rather not eat pigs that feed on another animals droppings , theres no reason for it .just because their pigs does not mean they have to live in or eat crap.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

farmerDale said:


> IMO, and no offense to y'all, but to me, sheep do not belong in a barn in the first place. I live in a cold place. My sheep stay outside year round. They feed on hay in the winter, and they use the waste for their bedding, outside on the land where it belongs.
> 
> The only time my sheep go inside voluntarily is when it rains REALLY hard, or involuntarily if a ewe is having issues at lambing. Otherwise they sleep out under the stars.
> 
> Just bringing this up as a potential option rather than having a manure/bedding pack issue to have to clean out of a barn. Been there done that, and learned from it well. lol. Sheep belong outside IMO. It avoids so many health issues and manure issues. Then one has not to worry about cleaning out a barn so much. Something to consider maybe???



I'm not familiar with Sask, but up here in Northern NY on the Canadian border we get a lot of wet, cold weather. I prefer to have the sheep outside too, but their winter paddock is not sloped the greatest for water control and I can't do much about that. I also use bringing them in at night as a training tool for moving them. Not having reliable herding dogs, training them to come at my call and follow has been a godsend. That's why mine come in, other than when they are in the jugs after lambing. I agree that keeping them out is the best idea in general terms.


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

The pigs, if offered enough food, aren't necessarily eating the manure. They are plowing up the manure to eat the grains left behind. It's the same concept as following cows with chickens, so the chickens can eat the fly larvae as it develops in the manure. It's all part of a symbiotic relationship between animals, plants, and soils. When managed properly, there should be no foul odors, few parasites if any, and animals (including the pigs) should be in excellent condition. When pigs are out on pasture, they actually eat a little soil for mineral content. Mine got into the wrong stall in the barn one night, dumped the worm bins I had situated under my rabbit cages, and ate up most of the worms in the bins they dumped. They are omnivores, and they eat all sorts of things we might never think of. I love what my girls are doing right now out in an area of thick brush on 3 acres (they are rotated in small, temporary paddocks). They are eating foliage, roots, nuts, seeds, and more, and I get the benefit of their fertilizer and their nose plows to convert this area to pasture. I wouldn't hesitate to move them into an area for plowing deep bedding as well. They don't live out their lives in there--it is just a short time based on the amount of work to do. Move in, churn it up, they eat the actual food, and then move them out.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Is there any particular insect/worm that you can seed in there to encourage pig rooting more?


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

This suggests the larvae do better in fresh manure than in pack, but may be able to convert a significant amount of manure back into animal feed: http://www.organicvaluerecovery.com/studies/studies_insect_digestion_of_manure.htm

I've been interested in raising larvae for a while, but our cold winters mean I'd have to move the culture indoors in winter, which I'm not keen on.


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

I don't know much about larvae other than the pigs and chickens love to eat it. However, we are working on plowing up a field (using our pigs) now. I had the kids go around the area, stick a pole into the ground, drop in some corn, and repeat until all the corn was gone. The next morning, the pigs had plowed up an area about 300 sq foot plus a bit more here and there. I was amazed how fast they did that! If you can plant the corn earlier and let it soften, or sprout/ferment (depending on conditions), it is supposedly even more enticing. I suppose other things would work too, such as certain legumes and beans, and you could probably try to get a bulk deal on meal worms if you really wanted to try that. Just a couple ideas.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Black soldier flies are the most interesting. They are self harvesting in the right container, and adults that escape are harmless, and reduce the populations of less desirable flies and bacteria through competition.


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## Tabitha (Apr 10, 2006)

farmerDale said:


> IMO, and no offense to y'all, but to me, sheep do not belong in a barn in the first place. I live in a cold place. My sheep stay outside year round. They feed on hay in the winter, and they use the waste for their bedding, outside on the land where it belongs.
> 
> The only time my sheep go inside voluntarily is when it rains REALLY hard, or involuntarily if a ewe is having issues at lambing. Otherwise they sleep out under the stars.
> 
> Just bringing this up as a potential option rather than having a manure/bedding pack issue to have to clean out of a barn. Been there done that, and learned from it well. lol. Sheep belong outside IMO. It avoids so many health issues and manure issues. Then one has not to worry about cleaning out a barn so much. Something to consider maybe???


I leave it up to the critters, and I have found they all like some creature comforts. If the weather is really bad they all trundle in, if the weather suits them, they stay out. When it gets really bad I close the door. Goats do not stay out at all.


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## Sandysdream (Jan 14, 2013)

Lots of ideas for winter bedding. I only have two sheep so its been easy. O have been doing two or three layers of wood shavings. My sheep are out all of the time unless it is raining really hard. I feed them a little hay inside. May change that to outside in the colder weather. They were born in Feb. I do give them some grain. It has helped them get use to us since we got the girls in June. I have not had any problem getting the shavings up yet.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Tabitha said:


> I leave it up to the critters, and I have found they all like some creature comforts. If the weather is really bad they all trundle in, if the weather suits them, they stay out. When it gets really bad I close the door. Goats do not stay out at all.


Yeah I should have made clearer my sheep always have access to barns/sheds. They just seldom use them. whether it is 40 below or not. Maybe I am just lucky...

:shrug:


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## Farmerjonathan (Mar 11, 2013)

Grumpy old man said:


> What you put into the animal is what you get out ! I'd rather not eat pigs that feed on another animals droppings , theres no reason for it .just because their pigs does not mean they have to live in or eat crap.


I did not say I was feeding them manure. I let them root through the manure and when they find something to their liking, they eat it. They always have a feeder, but your market hogs will taste better due to the muscling incorporated due to doing what comes naturally, rooting. Okay Grump?


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

Farmerjonathan said:


> Someone already said it. Pigs. When my daughter farrowed, I would move a sow into a box stall that needed cleaning. Manure pack that you could barely stab the tines into, a sow will walk in with her nose down and like a V plow break it right up to munch on grain found. Feeder pigs need to be over 60 pounds then they start really working the manure. I have feeder calves in a big pen in the barn for the winter, they can come and go, but they prefer to poop inside. So then in spring I put in a batch of feeder pigs. If they are slow to get started rooting, I go in with a crow bar, poke it down and whirl it around to make a hole that is funnel shaped, pour a handful of shelled corn down the hole. Make a dozen holes and pour shelled corn down them. If they slow down on rooting, throw a handful or two of shelled corn on the top and they will go at it again. What you can end up with is some of the most beautiful composted manure, you will think it is potting soil. If it gets a little dusty in the barn, wet down the pen. They will keep turning it over and what you couldn't pry out with a pitchfork at the end of the summer you will be able to easily scoop out with a scoop shovel. It's all part of the rotation and your pork will be muscled nicely and DELICIOUS!!


I'm sorry, you lost me early on. I couldn't get past your daughter farrowing. :facepalm:


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## Farmerjonathan (Mar 11, 2013)

thequeensblessing said:


> I'm sorry, you lost me early on. I couldn't get past your daughter farrowing. :facepalm:


:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:


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## Twobottom (Sep 29, 2013)

I get in there every month or so and dig it out...I have mats so with a metal snow shovel I can peel it off. And yeah its heavy and hard, I have to push the shovel through with my foot. I think not having mats might make it even tougher, at least there is a 'bottom' with the mat.

Its just one of those jobs. Putting down mats and cleaning it out more often might make it easier, but you still gotta do it.


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

We've done the weekly clean-out and we've done the "deep bedding". I can tell you, even with concrete floors in our barn, its still a pain in the behind type chore to do. You have to fork it up in layers. The top might be "dry and fluffy" but the bottom is soaked and putrid. 
One way is a lot of work and a little smell once a week, the other way is a heck of a LOT of work and a horrendous stench once a year. Take your pick. 

We now park the honey wagon just outside the barn and fork directly into that, once a week. But to each his/her own!


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## wintrrwolf (Sep 29, 2009)

I have used a small rototiller in the past and truly it does help to break it all up. Top is dryer then you got the matted stinky layer and under that is the stuff that has already composted and ready to go in the garden. Would do one area at a time. That being said I moved from that dryer state to a more humid state and after 3 days of rain, everything is wet. Was looking for an idea to make it easier to clean out the deep winter bedding in the goat barn simply because I have a pars fracture in my lower back. The pig idea is interesting though I think my goats would have a cow if they found grunters in their barn, so gonna look for another tiller.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

When my barn gets away from me, I clean a layer or two and then spread lime. Let it sit a day or two and fork more out. Spread my lime, etc. It keeps the smell down tremendously. My sheep like the barn because it's dark and there aren't many flies inside like their are outside - especially this year with all the rain!


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