# Wow



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I had been wondering if Chuck had any spare time to check out the idea for a new Guard animal forum when I see it's here! Thank you very much Chuck for the forum and I hope everyone who called for it takes the time to visit and share their experiences. Good and bad!


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

What LGD's do you have Ross? 

We have a Bulgarian Karakachan. Worth his weight in gold and proved it.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

None, to be honest I do not want to risk the pitfalls some have shared with their LGDs. I have found my neices horse is actually very very protective, and that by improving pasture managment losses were curtailed. Zero is a worthy goal. (if I keep farming that is) Still I have read of some very admirable success by those who raise their dogs right to guard sheep.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

It takes time and patience to raise and train an LGD. Plus they need to be born on a farm, amongst livestock, eating, breathing and living with the animals from as early on as possible.

Do you have coyotes where you live?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Yup so I have heard, a similar protocol for my border collie but with a very different end job.


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## PNP Katahdins (Oct 28, 2008)

Our Little Farm said:


> What LGD's do you have Ross?


I believe that Ross thinks the only good LGD is one that is NOT at his farm.

We had three Polish Tatras, crossed with Maremma (one) and Spanish Mastiff (two). The Maremma cross was wonderful but disappeared while chasing coyotes to the west of the property. Never found her and we really miss her. The other two were too rough on the sheep and death on cats too so they went back to the former homes. Good riddance to both of them.

Hadn't heard coyotes for two years, but they've been loud at night the past two weeks. The five Border collies have been barking a lot lately. Maybe the hunters need to come back.

Someone just tried to give us a 9-month-old Pyrenees that was being returned to her, but the situation as kind of weird and we didn't want a pup around at lambing time.

Peg


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Sorry missed your question. Yes we have coyotes. They're not native to the area back to the dawn of Canada but they kill lambs (and others) now all the same.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Not good at pictures, oh well


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

True PNP just too many problems for my patience. But people like Yuccaflatsranch have made an impression on my opinion. Not for me but if well informed and willing to take the risk a LGD might just work for others. Information is the key and a willingness to accept known risks, annnnnd a willingness to take corrective measures if they don't work out. LGDs do work for some, that's inescapable. I just dread people getting into the deal without knowing the details. Hence my change of heart for this forum.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Sorry about your Maremma Peg. 

Ross, So without an LGD how do you protect your lambs from them?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Ah geez Wendle I hear ya but a stock dog forum or sub forum may just have to wait. But please do post links to others!


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

So without a LGD I don't need to protect my lambs from a LGD!  OK ok to protect them from coyotes I use pasture rotation change routines and as I said the horse is remarkably protective. Nope not perfect and that would be nice. LGD experiences aren't perfect either


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

You really must have had a bad experience! 

I agree Some LGD stories that have been on here is like watching a train wreck. Scary frightening stuff.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Nope just neighbors who nearly lost their farm when their LGD attacked of of their neighbors on his own land. Killed lambs too. Now I'd really like to read some success stories. There are two sides to every story and not everyone is a stogey old cynic like me.


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## GoldenMom (Jan 2, 2005)

I moved a few of the LGD posts with most replies/better info over here from the Pet Forum. Hope that gives us a good start.

Oh for the record, I don't really have any guard animals either (unless my geese count). I wouldn't mind getting an LGD, but need more animals first AND the super close neighbor needs to move out/sell his place first (b/c of the barking-the geese are only noisy during the day!).


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

I wouldn't have many sheep without my trusty guard dog. Before lgds here I had a Llama and a donkey on patrol with regular coyote kills. These were healthy sheep turned into just remains overnight. Before that I had a few years with no problems. I know 3 other people with the same story. It just depends on the predators in your area. You might go years with no problems, then all of a sudden losses. 
Yes they do take some training. Typically you don't just turn them out and expect everything to come natural. Management is the key, just like anything else on the farm.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

wendle - can you make your photo surround less? I have my screen at it's widest and it's still distorting this thread, so may be making it distorted for the others, also.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I am so excited for this new forum on Livestock guardians...I just purchase 2 maremma's and have many questions......Thank you


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## PNP Katahdins (Oct 28, 2008)

Ross, here's my favorite LGD photo. It show our Katahdin ewe, Snowflake, with newborn daughters. Limba, our LGD who disappeared the next day, is watching in the background and the ewe is very comfortable with the dog that close. Limba was 3/4 Polish Tatra and 1/4 Maremma. She would stay with the sheep at night and patrol the pastures in the early morning, then sleep on the porch chair during the day. Paul saw her chase coyotes out at least twice. Very different from the two after her who killed three ewes and a number of cats.










Peg


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Here's a better picture of my working border collie who is also valuable for my sheep and cattle operation.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Thanks Wendle not sure what happend on Angies screen because it looke dok on mine. The same size as PNP Katahadins anyhow


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## nobrabbit (May 10, 2002)

We are on the fence also about acquiring a LGD. Our coyote population goes in cycles, they eat the rabbits and move on, the rabbits come back and they come back and on and on. When they are here there are lots of them. We have killed 2 when they attacked one of our dogs right outside our fence in the pasture and one in the yard (it appeared to have distemper). 

Our farm is next to us with about 8 flat acres on top and about 7 more acres in wooded hillsides. We have a rented trailer at the front of the property with 3 sheep pastures wrapped around it. The rest of the pasture to the rear and woods are dedicated to our cattle. The trailer has a security light in the backyard that does light up part of one of the pastures plus attached to the garage is a run in shed that the sheep tend to stay in at night. We've been lucky to not have had any problems with dogs or coyotes yet. But I feel like it's only a matter of time. 

One of the problems is that although most of the farms out here run from our size to 400 acres they are wedge shaped with the narrow part on the road and that's where the houses are. I've read so much about LGDs barking I can't imagine our neighbors tolerating it. There used to be a donkey on a neighboring farm that was excellent at guarding cattle until it started abusing the calves so I'm hesitant to get one for our sheep.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Ross said:


> Thanks Wendle not sure what happend on Angies screen because it looke dok on mine. The same size as PNP Katahadins anyhow


I figured it out later. I had the picture saved with too much white around it, so made it much bigger than it seemed. I didn't notice it until I was working on the web page and put the same picture on a colored background. 
Thanks Angie for correcting that, my internet was pretty slow for fixing it.


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