# Help! Something is wrong with Gretta!



## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

She was heading out the door toppled over and now she is just standing there shaking. Eyelids pale! I'm headed out to get a temp. I need Vit B complex dosage. I am freaking out here and I crying. She won't eat.


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## andabigmac (Jan 10, 2011)

Deep breathes. Gretta needs you right now. Could she have gotten into something? Too much grain last night? Does she appear bloated? I would hit her with everything right now B-Complex, baking soda, Pepto, CD Antitoxin, banamine, Thiamine, whatever won't hurt her until we can figure this out. Are her eyes twitching or stargazing? Diarrhea? When was she wormed?

eta: Vit B complex is 5cc per 100lbs. She will expel any excess. She can't OD on this. IM first one. SQ after that.


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## PNP Katahdins (Oct 28, 2008)

Prayers sent your way for Gretta and for you.

Peg


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## April (Nov 28, 2006)

B Complex is 4 cc's per 100 pounds. If you're going for the Thiamin, that's not enough though. Is she still shaking? Any other symptoms?


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## FrogTacos (Oct 25, 2011)

If the eyes are twitching hightail it to Walmart, buy a bottle of B1 in the vitamin section, grind up (or powder between spoons) 20 of them bad boys, add just enough water or nutridrench to get it into an oral syringe or drencher - and get it in her. 

Ive done 20 tablets (250mg EACH) over a couple hours and pulled my girl back from dern near death.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

The fortified Vit. B complex that's over the counter I always give 2ml per 35 pounds of body weight. I know we've all had a different dosage for this here but like someone else said you cannot overdose her on this.

I 2nd the C & D Antitoxin.
Did you get a temp or any other symptoms yet? When was she wormed last? Wonder about menengeal worm?

Hugs to you Michele, I am pulling for both of you. If anything I can do from this distance just let me know.


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## The Tin Mom (Dec 30, 2008)

Oh, Minelson! ((((hugs!)))). 

What is her temp? 

I third the CD&T! Sometimes I wonder if I had given Cami that sooner if she would have made it. 

Greta is in our prayers!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Ok...just got back from the vet. She has a fever but I didn't ask the exact temp. Her lugs had a little bit of congestion. He gave her 4.5 cc Nuflor and 1.5 Banamine. He checked her mouth again. Can't see anything wrong there. She is trembling on and off. She ate a cookie but seemed to have trouble chewing it. She seems weak and unstable. The vet was in a hurry. He offered to do boodwork but I opted not to. She is not bloated. I gave 3 cc's of Ivermectin. The vet was a little in a hurry. I kinda stormed in there with her.


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## TRAILRIDER (Apr 16, 2007)

April said:


> B Complex is 4 cc's per 100 pounds. If you're going for the Thiamin, that's not enough though. Is she still shaking? Any other symptoms?


Is that the same dosage for B-12?


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Stool is normal no eye twitching or star gazing.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I have the CD Anti toxin loaded to give....but wouldn't I just use that for over eating? She did not get into anything or over eat anything. It's not lush here at all due to the drought. She has been a little "off" lately but I thought it was just becasue of all changes here with the baby donk and moving the baby goats in with them. 
I'm headed out to get her actual temp and give her the b complex. I have to get to work too!! I'm 1-1/2 late already and it takes a 1/2 hour to get there.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I gave her 20 cc cd antitoxin and 5 cc of b complex...


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I just took a sedative..I'm shaking more than she is and it's too early to drink


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## The Tin Mom (Dec 30, 2008)

Hang in there! We are all pulling for you and Gretta! ((((hugs)))). 

Can you call in sick? Would they understand? 
.


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## andabigmac (Jan 10, 2011)

Is the Banamine kicking in yet? She'll probably be feeling better in no time. If she doesn't get her appetite back up you could try tempting her with a door-to-door salesman. Get better soon Gretta. 

You're a good goat mom, Minelson.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

I would give cydectin and red cell. I would probably wait until tomorrow to give the cydectin since had ivermectin today. For really bad worm loads I like to give dewormers 2 days in a row, and repeat it in 10-14 days. Thats what seems to work for me. 
I am having the same issue right now with a little nigerian with a bad worm load. She just has been quiet for a the last week, laying down alot. Maybe the worms are secondary to the uri, but, if she is that pale it may be why she is acting so off and weak (anemic).


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

I had a doe do this it was a black widow bite.


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## Strange Bear (May 13, 2002)

I don't have any answers for you but am pulling for you and Gretta.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I have to go to work this afternoon & don't get home until late but please update us on Gretta's condition this evening when you get home from work please.

Relax tonight, have a couple drinks & just hang out in the barn with the criters. The Banamine & Nuflor will kick in & Gretta's going to be feeling a little better by morning.


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## copperpennykids (Sep 6, 2004)

Did your vet send you home with 4 more doses of Nuflor?

When our vet recommends Nuflor, he doses it at 6ccs/100lbs. Your banamine dosage sounds like she is 150 lbs. ?? We generally end up giving 9ccs for a 150 lb goat and it must be given every 24 hours for goats, not every 48 hours like for beef cattle.

If you could get another dose of banamine for tomorrow that would be good to have.

Also, give a drench of baking soda. She could be "off" due to acidosis (and where the CD antitoxin is important) and the baking soda may help her neutralize her Ph. One of those, "Can't hurt, might help" things.

Keep up the B-complex. Dosages vary depending on whether it is regular B-complex or Fortified B-Complex. And yep, for polio or listeriosis you need a lot of B. Better to get thiamine from the vet if you can (although it doesn't sound like that is what you are dealing with here).

Stay strong for your girl - she needs you!


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

These great ladies have given you some great advise. Hugs to you and get better soon vibes to Gretta!


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## farmmom (Jan 4, 2009)

You definitely need more than the one dose of Nuflor with goats. 5 days in a row is what I have always heard recommended.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I just got home from work...Vet told me Nuflor was a 4 day dose and if she isn't better by Mon to come back and get some more. I have Banamine. He said 1.5 cc's a day for 2 more days. She weighs just under 70lbs. Ivermectin supposedly still works in this area. Every time I do fecals they come out clean. She is not shaking and she is running away from me. I'm going to see if I can get her to eat more animal crackers. She ate one earlier. will not eat boss, horse pellets or alf pellets. 
Thank you so much everyone!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

It's fortified B complex...how often should I giver that?


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## copperpennykids (Sep 6, 2004)

2-3ccs Sub Q once a day if she is feeling this much better.

Kind of low on the Nuflor, but you can only give what the vet will give you.

And kind of high on the banamine...we have always had it dosed at 1cc/100 lbs, both vets and goat mentors alike.

Glad to hear she is feeling better.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

No advice, just good thoughts for a full recovery for Gretta.


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## Dreamgoat Annie (Nov 28, 2011)

Hang in there! Sending loads of energy to you and Gretta.

Sue


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I just took her temp. 99.8 I took it twice with 2 different thermometers.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Just saw this. Hope your little girl is doing better.


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## mamahen (May 11, 2002)

What's the air temp? Is the sun shining? 

Would she eat blackberry or raspberry leaves? How about apple leaves? Those are all tempting to my recovering goats.

I don't like the lower temp, but she did have a dose of banamine. What was her temp when she had a fever??



I was told to give the Vit. B twice a day when mine were sick. They excrete the excess, so no worries.


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## andabigmac (Jan 10, 2011)

I've heard in some cases banamine can cause a low temp. Maybe offer her some dryer warmed towels if she looks shivery.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

How scarey for you. The vitamin B Complex is great- can't hurt and is very helpful when any antibiotic are given. I give it orally and in large doses.
The same with the anti-toxin. Not orally though. But can't hurt.
When you looked at her eyes, did you notice that the pupils were steady or if they moved back and forth (nystagmius?)


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

mamahen said:


> What's the air temp? Is the sun shining?
> 
> Would she eat blackberry or raspberry leaves? How about apple leaves? Those are all tempting to my recovering goats.
> 
> ...


It's in the 70's now and the sun is shining. She is laying by herself under a tree...everyone else is grazing  I'm going to run to the store and get some Cydectin and Red Cell. I don't know what the temp was...he just said fever :smack


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

where I want to said:


> When you looked at her eyes, did you notice that the pupils were steady or if they moved back and forth (nystagmius?)


Her eyes are normal.


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## mamahen (May 11, 2002)

Way back when my girl was sick I belonged to a site like Goat 911 or something like that?

Any way they told me to make her walk for at least 10 minutes a day twice a day. That on top of the Vit. B, Thiamine and mylanta.

Is her mouth cold? Maybe give her a rub down, if she likes that and see if she'll lay in the sun with you?


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

The only time I had a goat with goat polio, her eyes had trouble focusing. Not twitching but tracking. 
Sounds like you have everything going OK. I've never deal with the barberpole worm so I have no idea about that. 
I know that when I felt cold in the hospital, I found those microwaved warm blankets very comforting. 
I wish I had a magic wand to wave over her and make everything OK. Keeping you both in my thoughts.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

I don't have any advice, so I will offer (((hugs))) instead.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

She took a peanut in a shell from me, tried to chew it and spit it out. So I took some out of the shell...she tried to chew but spit it out. I have thought she had an issue with her mouth and had her in a few months ago to have her teeth checked. The only thing he found was a severe underbite. I had him check again today and he can't find anything wrong with her mouth. He did say that they might need to be floated and she would have to be put under for that...and that is risky. 

They didn't have Cydectin so I recalled that Quest Gel was the same?? 2 x the dose for horses so I would set it at just under 200lbs?
How much red cell and how often?

So I'm looking at possible upper respitory infection, or heavy worm load, or teeth problems. Or all 3! What can I give her to eat that she doesn't have to chew? Should I make her some oatmeal or something?


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

You might try alfala pellets soaked in water or peanut butter, just to see if it's chewing that's a problem. Oatmeal mush?


Could the dried leaves from your down tree be a problem? I know some dried leaves are.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

What is the cc dose when using Quest gel? 1cc per 100lbs sound right?


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## Donna1982 (Jun 14, 2011)

Oh healing thoughts your way. I feel for you and Gretta. 

I always did 1 cc per 100 lbs too for banamine. I will say though mom's farm help ended up giving a 20 lb baby a 1 cc and it didn't pass away so maybe it is not that easy to overdose?

Get better soon Gretta.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

where I want to said:


> You might try alfala pellets soaked in water or peanut butter, just to see if it's chewing that's a problem. Oatmeal mush?
> 
> 
> Could the dried leaves from your down tree be a problem? I know some dried leaves are.


There were no leaves on it. It was deader than dead. Right now She and Frankie and Flossie are laying in the sun by one of the logs. I'm soaking pellets. I can NOT believe it's already after 4 pm! Where did the day go!
It's supposed to get cold tonight so I put extra bedding in the stall for them so hopefully she will stay warm enough.


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## Goat Servant (Oct 26, 2007)

Oatmeal sounds great, a dab of molasses in it & maybe a small handful raisins?
Love U hugs to both you & Gretta.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Donna1982 said:


> Oh healing thoughts your way. I feel for you and Gretta.
> 
> I always did 1 cc per 100 lbs too for banamine. I will say though mom's farm help ended up giving a 20 lb baby a 1 cc and it didn't pass away so maybe it is not that easy to overdose?
> 
> Get better soon Gretta.


Maybe that is why her temp dropped so low. Maybe I should only give her 1 cc tomorrow and the next day.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Something is really wrong here and I'm starting to freak again. She can not eat. I had some alone time with her and brought out a soft piece of bread with creamy peanut butter on it. She acted like she was starving. took a big piece, rolled it around in her mouth and let it drop out. Immeadiately went for another bite but I gave her just a little piece...same thing. She was licking the peanut butter off my fingers. She is hungry which is a good sign but she can't eat! I think I need a different vet. Not because of anything the vet today did wrong. I just need someone to take me more seriously. This is livestock land and the vets are good, practical, inexpensive. But when it comes to something abnormal (that all MY animals and hubby seem to be) I'm wondering if I can take another route come Monday. Maybe a university. I have no clue where to begin with that (Callianne?)She is breathing normal and seems comfortable when she is not trying to eat. Is this an emergency or do I have time to find a better vet. I am terrified of putting her under. Is that irrational? I am scared that there might be a stick stuck in her throat or something. We didn't have leaves with the big tree we took down but we sure have sticks! Rocky keeps chewing on them and throwing them up on my living room rug. He literally eats the sticks ugh! Dear Lord I hope she doesn't have an obstruction!  
The vet did check her throat, chin mouth from the outside very thouroghly. And he really got a good look inside and did the best he could to look inside and at the back teeth. I'm a vet tech. I'm used to tough situations...this was really hard to hold her and have him look. If she were a dog at our clinic we would have sedated before moving forward. He said that usually swelling will appear on the outside with and infection. She is smooth and fine.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Here are some pics..
She is laying next to the tractor and everyone else is out eating..


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Continued prayers for Gretta. Hope you get it figured out.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

Can she swallow the peanut butter when she licks it off your fingers? If she isn't eating at all, I think I would try to find another vet before Monday.


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

Praying she feels better soon! I agree with OBF, she needs to eat! I was even thinking maybe some yogurt? It would be hard to spit that back out I'd think. Is she drinking water?


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## SunsetSonata (Nov 23, 2006)

I think you need to get her sedated and REALLY inspected down her throat. Even if there's not a stick or other object stuck in there, perhaps one dislodged and maybe injured the soft tissue. Hate to urge you to take her back whether to the same vet or a new one, but I think your vet missed something. Edited to add, well, obviously your vet missed something. But I'm thinking injury or obstruction rather than illness, my hunch anyway.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

Soak the alfalfa pellets in warm water and put them in the blendar to make an alfala smoothy. Syringe it down little by little. I would NOT do a bowl of oatmeal as you can certainly cause enterotoxemia. If she is not used to eating a bowl of oatmeal now is not the time to try it. 

I would still do the CDT antitoxin, the Vit B injections and the antibiotics because they won't hurt and they might keep something else form popping up. Also take a flash light and look in her mouth yourself maybe you'll spot something the vet didn't see. Remember the Vit B will cause her to want to eat.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I just made her a mash and she got maybe a half-3/4 cup in. Soaked alf hand mashed. With soaked saltines with Repliman. Added a bit of molasses and Probios. Ther is something wrong with her mouth. But she did get a fair amount down. I just don't want to screw up her rumen! But I don't think she can eat hay or browse. And after she gets it down she rubs her lips on whatever is closest. Maybe sh got bit by something? This is going all over the place!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Kris..I did the CD anti toxin...20 cc's Do I need to do more?


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

She just tried to eat some saltines with Repliman on them (Friday is Repliman day here) She sucked on them a bit and then they fell out. I guess I'll drive to town and get some yogurt...should I get anything else??


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

Minelson said:


> She just tried to eat some saltines with Repliman on them (Friday is Repliman day here) She sucked on them a bit and then they fell out. I guess I'll drive to town and get some yogurt...should I get anything else??


Oh my...don't follow MY advice until someone else chimes in. I don't feel that experienced...was just telling you what I would probably do 

I'm glad you something in her!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Jyllie63 said:


> Oh my...don't follow MY advice until someone else chimes in. I don't feel that experienced...was just telling you what I would probably do
> 
> I'm glad you something in her!


I was thinking some yogurt would be good anyway...cuz of the anti biotics. I'ts just such a fine line becuz I don't want to mess up her rumen. She is used to pasture and browse. How do you liquify that? Grrrr..I know she needs to eat. :Bawling::Bawling:


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

~sighs~ What a day to be all day at my mothers!

Okay, from what I understand, she can swallow, she just cannot chew, correct?

Do you have *Tetanus* anti-toxin on hand, and/or did your vet check for that? An amazing amount of things can cause tetanus, and one of the first signs is stiffness of the jaw, making it hard for her to chew.

If you have grain, like oats and such, you can make a mash by taking a cup of grain, adding a bit of molasses or other sweetener, and pouring boiling water on it. Then let it steep until it is cool enough to eat.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

No...no tetanus antitoxin just CD antitoxin which she got 20 ccc's of earlier.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I think she is having trouble swallowing too. Maybe I can get a video... I wanna check on her anyway


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Dang, and it is late. Is there any stiffness whatsoever of any of her joints? Back legs? She has the temp drop, and trouble eating.....

Is there any place you can get tetanus antitoxin? If it is tetanus, the Nuflor will take care of the bacteria causing the problem, but the toxins they release are still an issue.


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## andabigmac (Jan 10, 2011)

Could she have a foxtail wedged in her mouth or throat? They're in full seed head stage here. They are little and annoying and could have worked their way into the tissue. Possibly the vet missed it because it wasn't that swollen yet.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Okay, no tetanus antitoxin on hand, but you have banamine, which you have given her and that has dropped the fever. Do you have Epsom Salt on hand? An Epsom Salt drench (1/8th cup Epsom Salt to 1 cup water) can relieve the spasms and stiffening associated with tetanus * temporarily*.

She needs to have tetanus antitoxin by tomorrow morning, no later. Can that be done?


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

by chance do you have clove powder? it numbs the mouth without doing the gaggy thing orajel does perhaps that could be a way to eliminate something. You should be able to feel along the outer jowl line for any rough edges, the inside is not so easy.
Ive been watching this all day trying to figure out what it can be. If Goat medicine book will help lmk.


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## IndyGardenGal (Apr 5, 2009)

Minelson said:


> What is the cc dose when using Quest gel? 1cc per 100lbs sound right?


That's right.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

She can swallow. She seems to have problems "maneuvering" what is in her mouth. She got down about a 1/3 cup of mashed alf pellets. Yes she does seem stiff but she always has. I don't think we have tetnus antitoxin at the vet where I work...but I will call their cell and ask in case I just never noticed. I'm sure it would be expired..but better than nothing. Plan B would be to call the vet I went to today and ask him for it. That would be an after hours deal so I will try my vet first. What is the dosage??

gosh darn it...everything is closed now! I need Tentenus Anti toxin...


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

IndyGardenGal said:


> That's right.


Thank you!


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

I get my tetanus antitoxin at TSC...do you have one of those close by?


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Jyllie63 said:


> I get my tetanus antitoxin at TSC...do you have one of those close by?


No...But I need to make some quick calls


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Tractor Supply has 2 5 Mil Tanks.. Equine Origin. Is that what I need. They close in 1/2 hour so I can't make it there tonight. How much should I give?


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Give all of it. Every drop. And get more bottles. You *need* this on hand.


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## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

Thinking about this. Is her tongue swollen? Lips swollen? Any sores anywhere on or around her mouth?


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

At the vet nothing was swollen or sore. Her tongue does look swollen to me, but that may be because she is jirating it .

Temp is 102. She seems content and is nibbling on hay. The soonest I can get the tetanus anti toxin is tomorow morning. Unless we have some at my vet clinic that I don't know about and my boss calls me back tonight. He is out of town.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I thought I had it all and had it covered. I have a MASSIVE medicine cabinet for the animals. I work at a vet so I get things easily and stock up. The one thing...the ONE THING! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...........


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Add it to your must have for your goat med kit. You might never have need for it, and every year, you may have to throw out a bottle that is unused and buy a new one. But MAN, if you need it, absolutely nothing can replace it.

Watch her tonight. If she starts having twitches or spasms that increase in frequency and strength, drench her with Epsom salt in water.

I may be wrong and she will be fine in the morning. I hope so. You know how difficult it is to diagnose when you can't feel the dear critter. Her symptoms, however, match tetanus. ~sighs~


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Ok...that is the plan. I shall make a pot of coffee...I am in zombie land. what a day!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I do have epsoms salts and will get that ready in case I need to use.


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

Hang in there! I'm sorry you are going through this


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## Donna1982 (Jun 14, 2011)

Could her jaw be broke? My first LaMancha buck louie had his jaw broke and he acted the same way.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Donna1982 said:


> Could her jaw be broke? My first LaMancha buck louie had his jaw broke and he acted the same way.


I thought the same thing...because she is in with Mama-D and her baby now. Maybe something happened. But now that I think of it...I have been wondering about her mouth for a few months now. That is why I took her in to have her teeth checked. So maybe it is not tetanus and she need a major floating. But that would scare the crap out of me to put her under:Bawling:What if she didn't wake up? What would Frankie and Flossie do without their mama? It makes me sick. the vet this morning really checked her jaw and would have felt if something were broken...I hope! Jeepers. I would think that I would notice that also. this may be related to my previous concerns about her teeth. Maybe it's not tetanus. But I will still treat her for that just in case. My boss (vet) just called. We have no tetanus antitoxin in the house  So I will get up early and drive to Sioux Suck Falls and get it.


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## mamahen (May 11, 2002)

Minelson said:


> But that would scare the crap out of me to put her under:Bawling:What if she didn't wake up? What would Frankie and Flossie do without their mama? It makes me sick. .



Could they just sedate her enough to make her drowsy/sleepy? Can you have bloodwork done to make sure heart,etc. are ok before sedating? Our vet does this before any cats or dogs are sedated (for an extra fee).

I hope it's something as simple as a loose tooth, or one that just needs a easy filing.

If she's comfy & resting - get yourself some rest! Even just a cat nap. Can your hubby take a shift watching? 

Could you put her on camera & have everyone here take a shift?


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Oh, no, I just found this.

HUGS and more HUGS. I will be checking in for updates. The fact that she is TRYING to eat is a GOOD thing, my dear. Most of the big takers-of-our-goats involve a lack of appetite, right? Poor baby, and poor you. 

Hugs and best thoughts.


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## BethW (May 3, 2007)

Oh Michele I just saw this! Hang in there. Gretta is a tough girl. *smooch*


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## Suzyq2u (May 17, 2010)

Oh No, just read this -- poor gretta! (And Minelson!!) I hope she starts feeling better soon!! *hugs*


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## Donna1982 (Jun 14, 2011)

Minelson said:


> I thought the same thing...because she is in with Mama-D and her baby now. Maybe something happened. But now that I think of it...I have been wondering about her mouth for a few months now. That is why I took her in to have her teeth checked. So maybe it is not tetanus and she need a major floating. But that would scare the crap out of me to put her under:Bawling:What if she didn't wake up? What would Frankie and Flossie do without their mama? It makes me sick. the vet this morning really checked her jaw and would have felt if something were broken...I hope! Jeepers. I would think that I would notice that also. this may be related to my previous concerns about her teeth. Maybe it's not tetanus. But I will still treat her for that just in case. My boss (vet) just called. We have no tetanus antitoxin in the house  So I will get up early and drive to Sioux Suck Falls and get it.


I would hope he would find something if her jaw was broke. Maybe she has a cracked tooth? The more i read and think the more i think its a tooth issue. Could you get a video of her eating?


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

mamahen said:


> Could they just sedate her enough to make her drowsy/sleepy? Can you have bloodwork done to make sure heart,etc. are ok before sedating? Our vet does this before any cats or dogs are sedated (for an extra fee).
> 
> I hope it's something as simple as a loose tooth, or one that just needs a easy filing.
> 
> ...


Hubby had to leave town this morning...right in the middle of a major meltdown on my part. . I think that you are right and I should eat and get some zzzz's now. She seems comfortable. I don't even want to go soen there and wake them up. Just a few hours...


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

http://minelson.dyndns-office.com:8090/
Firefox users:
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User Name: visitor
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Go to upper left corner and click on Live Video

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If you just get a black screen with a little square or red X&#8230;try clicking on the refresh video button over on the left.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Everybody just woke up cuz the stupid dogs started barking


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

OK- I hate to mention this but it is eerily similar. I put a post about a month ago about my horse who wanted to eat but would talk the food into her mouth and it would roll around a bit then come out. I had been worrying about her quidding for quit some time but then this happened. 
I don't know what was with her yet but the vet gave her a Dexamethasone shot and by the afternoon she could eat again. I gave her oral Dexamethasone for about 5 days. I still don't feel she is right but she is eating ok since then.
She was getting a mineral mix that was high in selenium that the local vet sells- she had been on it for years. I stopped that but only because I was nervous about it anyway. 
I don't want to lead you astray as I have no idea whether it is the same thing- my girl had no coordination problems- she was stressed and a bit hyper but that was all.
I hope Gretta is better fast.


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## oldmcdonaldsfarm (Apr 25, 2003)

What about listeriosis? Friend of mine had 2 die from it a few months ago. Doe had classic symptoms, buck had questionable symptoms but was confirmed by necropsy.


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## GoldenWood Farm (May 31, 2003)

Minelson I haven't posted yet on this thread but I have been following closely. I am praying for you and Gretta :grouphug:.

Justine


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

When I've had to give banamine to my goats I was told 1ml per 100 pounds of weight. If the vet gave 1.5 mil. that might be just a little much for such a small goat & brought her temp. down that much.

I've been reading all the posts & I'm wondering if something bit or stung her in the mouth. The tongue swelling & her not being able to swallow could be a sign that she can't feel to swallow or her throat also swollen inside.
I wonder if you could give her a the powder from a couple benedryl capsules & see if that doesn't help her eat?

I would keep up on the Nuflor from the vet, probios & the vitamine B Complex daily. It does sound kinda like she's having an allergic reaction to something though but I could be way off.

Keeping you & Gretta in my thoughts tonight. If you can't sleep you can call, won't matter if you wake me I don't sleep good most of the time anyways.

Wish I had more ideas but I'll keep thinking.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I have been reading along here too.
I feel like I know Gretta (all your critters really) from reading all these years.

She CAN swallow though, otherwise she would be drooling and foaming, right? 
That has been my experience with swollen throats due to injury or swollen bites.

My concern is is she drinking water? That dehydration can really tear down an animal. 
Honestly, she has enough (ahem) reserves on her for a few days, but she needs to keep hydrated until you can get this ironed out.

It seems most likely related to the chewing issue she has been having recently.

Another thing noone has mentioned is hardware. 
So many ways that can present. I hope not though.


No real help from me, I know.
Add me to the pool of people rooting for you and Gretta. 

More hugs from Missouri.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I just looked and the vet I went to yesterday is open Saturdays until noon! They open at 7:30 I just assumed that they would be closed today.


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## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

How is Gretta this morning?


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

The vet seriously doesn't think it is tetanus but does have the anti toxin. 
She is scheduled to be knocked out on Tues to see what is going in there. I am scared to death! 
Today I will give her the Quest/red cell/banamine. I will make sure she is not dehydrated and make her some more gruel. I don't know why this is making me cry but it is. I feel like such a cry baby...I never used to cry so easily.


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## andabigmac (Jan 10, 2011)

Your baby is sick and you don't understand why. I cried like a baby when Ali was sick. The little boogers just insinuate their ways into your heart. It's okay. Cry away. No one here is going to think less of you. Big Love for you and Gretta.


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## JBarGFarmKeeper (Nov 1, 2011)

Minelson, don't worry I heard all the same things, however, when my Gherkin (the one in the pictures in the thread with Frankie talking about "leaning" goats) broke her leg, my vet said he had to give her something to put her out while he set the leg. I was concerned like you. He assured me that whatever it was he was giving (Caliann probably knows, but I can remember) he had something else that was the "reversal" of it and that if anything went wrong he could get it to her at anytime. He used the same stuff a couple years ago when he was wethering an older buck kid (like a yearling). Anyway, he said she was not like totally out, just enough not to fight. 

He told my daughter to hold on to her, gave her the shot and she just crumpled right there. He gave her the reversal when he was finished she was up and walking in just a minute...a little "drunk" but she was ready to go home!

I imagine Gretta will come through with FLYING COLORS! Hang in there...:spinsmiley:


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## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

Have you started a diary? If not start it today. Write down her symptoms, what you feed her, what she drinks, if you see her poop, chew on a cud, walk, stumble and any medications that u give her.

You are crying because you feel frustrated, helpless. You are being a good Mom.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

How's she doing this morning? Any sign of even a little improvement? Don't feel like a cry baby, I cry all the time too & especially if one of my animals is really sick.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

She looked all bright eyed this morning and chewing her cud. She got up and walked outside just fine...all normal. I gave her a bowl of soaked alf pellets. She went right for it and ate some, able to swallow, then started rubbing her lips on the side of the barn. Did that 3 times. Then she started shaking again. 
She is not dehydrated. I am making her some warm water with a touch of molasses in it. I will get everything organzied and written down this morning.


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## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

Why don't you rub some benadryl gel around her lips. I don't think that there would be a negative to it - maybe she is just allergic to something.

I shake if I get hot or dehydrated or upset or tired or . . .


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Her is the video from last night
005 - YouTube


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

She guzzled the warm molasses water. Then I gave her 1cc of Banamine. She seemed wobbly after that. I think all those poking and prodding is wearing on her. . She is laying in the shade now next to my truck.


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## JBarGFarmKeeper (Nov 1, 2011)

Minelson said:


> She guzzled the warm molasses water. Then I gave her 1cc of Banamine. She seemed wobbly after that. I think all those poking and prodding is wearing on her. . She is laying in the shade now next to my truck.


I'm glad you said she drank because in your video her eyes look sunk in to me. I would have been concerned by that.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

CaliannG said:


> If you have grain, like oats and such, you can make a mash by taking a cup of grain, adding a bit of molasses or other sweetener, and pouring boiling water on it. Then let it steep until it is cool enough to eat.


This worked like a charm!:clap: She ate at least a cup of the mixture. I used Mare and Foal pellets, I have been feeding her a handful a day trying to get weight on her so she is used to it. I added just a bit of molasses and probios. I was able to make soup out of it using the boiling water. She really liked it and the other goofballs were not that interested so it was easy to just stand there and watch her eat. This gets more fluids into her also. 

Question...Should I make a fresh batch every time or will what she left behind "keep" for a while?


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Minelson, at this point I would just make a bit less for her and waste the rest. It will be much more appealing freshly made. You don't need to take even the SLIGHTEST chance with her feed right now!! Very good thought giving her soup.


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## FrogTacos (Oct 25, 2011)

I don't have anything new to add - BUT - if you do end up using epsom salts, remember they are a remedy for constipation so she might get the runs if you use them.

Is she eliminating properly?

Im also going to suggest you get in touch with Coni Ross via Facebook - that woman knows EVERYTHING about goats, if she cant help you, I doubt anyone can.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Hmmm, you are in South Dakota.... not heavy on the mold spores this time of year...

Kind of hard to choose. Down here, I would make a fresh batch every time. But it is still in the 90's here, and bugs are a problem. Leaving it out all day would ensure that it was full of ants and flies. So, for me, at least, I would just feed any leftovers to the chickens and make a fresh batch.

I make mashes for the animals when it is really cold too, so you might want to remember it for your winter. Nothing a horse or a goat likes better than to come in to the barn at the end of a freezing, blustery day to a nice, hot mash!

By just adding enough boiling water to cover it, it will come out about the consistency of oatmeal, too.

I am glad she is doing so much better today. Also, being put under is NOT such a fright. Cypress had to be put under for that major surgery she had in May, and when the reversal was applied, she came out of it just fine.  Like Gena, I don't remember the name of the stuff either. ~sighs~ It is a brainless day for me.


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## Donna1982 (Jun 14, 2011)

Has she always done that licking thing? Could she have cut her tongue on something? Poor baby and poor you. I know how much they mean to you.


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## wintrrwolf (Sep 29, 2009)

Does she have any swelling inside or around her lips? Like a spider bite? Started reading this then skipped to the end. With the rubbing of nose and licking makes me wonder if she did get bit or stung.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

No she has not always done that licking thing. It's definitely a symptom of whatever is going on. There is no obvious swelling anywhere. I just fed her the "soup" again and she went to town on it and then drank some water. She did the excessive licking and rubbed her mouth on my truck during that meal...I think this batch was a little thicker.


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## andabigmac (Jan 10, 2011)

Maybe she has something up her nose. If she did and it became infected or even so full of snot from it being blocked it could be causing the dizziness and eye thing. If you've ever had a serious sinus infection you know your teeth hurt, it hurts to swallow and you get dizzy from all of the pressure. Have you tried palpating her nose from the muzzle to the eyes to see if she's extra sensitive there? Make sure you mention the licking to the vet. 

Maybe she'll blow if you ask her nice. Or she could eat the Kleenex like mine would.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

andabigmac said:


> Maybe she has something up her nose. If she did and it became infected or even so full of snot from it being blocked it could be causing the dizziness and eye thing. If you've ever had a serious sinus infection you know your teeth hurt, it hurts to swallow and you get dizzy from all of the pressure. Have you tried palpating her nose from the muzzle to the eyes to see if she's extra sensitive there? Make sure you mention the licking to the vet.
> 
> Maybe she'll blow if you ask her nice. Or she could eat the Kleenex like mine would.


I'm sure she would eat a kleenex if I offered her one lol!! 
She never had any "eye issues" her eyes have been normal all along. I think she toppled over from weakness and having the fever. But I just made a note to have the vet check her nose too.


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## wearegoats (Oct 16, 2011)

Did the vet look inside of her nose? Could she have run a thorn or a tiny stick up inside her nose? With all the licking she was doing and with you saying she was wiping her mouth on something makes me think she might have something in there. If it has been there for awhile it could have set up an infection. If the floor of her nose was swollen and hurt she wouldn't want to eat. Just something I was thinking about watching my goats eat today.


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## wearegoats (Oct 16, 2011)

Sorry andabigmac. Didn't see your post. I guess great minds think alike.


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

I'm very glad to read that you got her to eat and drink a bit. I can hardly wait to hear what the vet finds out...poor Minelson AND poor Gretta!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

This really started many months ago when I noticed her tongue was always sticking out a bit. Then I noticed weight loss. But we had pregos Mama-D (mini donk) that lives with the goats and she was on a strict diet and only let out half the day and treats got cut waaaay back for everyone. (you can't not give everyone a treat when giving treats). But the weight loss was nagging at me so I took her in to get her teeth checked. He really got a good look that day. I held her by the horns and he used a flashlight to look. He couldn't find anything wrong except that she has a pretty severe under bite. Like the lower front teeth were starting to lean outward and not lining up properly to the pad on top. He said that is from age. That would explain why her tongue was peeking out, teeth not holding it in as well. Also why she can't eat as fast and cause some weight loss. But he thought she was in perfect condition at the time. Only fix would be braces. So I thought everything was fine and dandy. She is just getting older. I started getting this nagging feeling again that something is off with her. She just feels so boney. As a matter of fact the night before this part started I woke up in the middle of the night and I was thinking about her...worried. Started thinking about what if she dies...what would Frankie and Flossie do without her. What would I do without her. That's when I started crying. Then the following morning she was scrambling to get outside, tumbled over, and started shaking. That's it..posted here, didn't get an answer in half a second, put her in the truck and flew to the vet. 

At the vet clinic where I work, it is common for a dog to rub his/her face on the carpet when there are teeth issues. They can be itchy to them. Excessive licking too. It is also very hard to find problems sometimes until they are sedated and you start poking around in there. The antibiotic may be shrinking the infection a bit and that causes itching also. I really think we are dealing with a bum tooth or teeth. 
Ok...while typing this one of my dogs started puking in the living room. Never. a. dull. moment.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

Have you tried Benadryl? Maybe she is allergic to something? When you have an allergic reaction sometimes your mouth is tingly or numb. I have never seen a goat who licks constantly.


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## ani's ark (May 12, 2012)

Don't have any wisdom to add, but hoping for the best outcome. Chin up Minelson, you're doing a great job looking after her while you work on the problem.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Ok...the plot thickens. I took Frog Tacos advice and called that woman Coni. Her knowledge blew me away. She thinks that Gretta has an abcess in her throat between the esophagus and windpipe. She said she has experience with this and when they can not swallow anything but fluids that is what it is. Nothing with the teeth. She said I need an ultra sound done to see where/if the abcess is. She sounded very confident with her diagnosis. She was so friendly! So I just went out and gave everyone a cracker. Gretta ate it like normal and swallowed it like normal. >sigh< which is good but leads me to more questions. I called her back and told her Gretta swallowed the cracker that she couldn't swallow yesterday. She said the Nuflor is working then and might be all she needs to get rid of whatever is obstructing her from getting solids down. She still does not think it's the teeth. She said I should continue with the nuflor daily for 5 days. I don't have any  the vet said it was a 4 day dose and to get more on Monday if she is not better. So I need to get some more Nuflor now. Dej-a-voo from last night looking for the tetanus antitoxin! GRRRRRRRRRR.......I know we don't have Nuflor at our clinic. Feed store has Biomycin and PenG and that is it.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

Remember allergic reactions can cause your throat to swell. It may not be an abscess, not that she's wrong but there are other open possibilities.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Very true Chris... But it seems the Nuflor is working. I just emergency called the vet. (I know I am the client from hell now) I will be able to get the Nuflor tomorrow morning at 8am. He said the Biomycin is a different kind of anti-biotic. She is actually out grazing with the other goats right now!!


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Just wanted to say that whenever you see loss of coordination, loss of ability to move the mouth (often accompanied by drooling), Give Thiamine every 6 hrs day 1, at least 2-3x day 2 for a week or more. Polio/listeria often show these signs. I'd suggest Penicillin every 6 hrs at high dose enough to cross the blood/brain barrier, but you've got her on nuflor so that should work.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

*She is totally normal tonight. She is going Hell Bent for Election at the hay! Gobbling it up. She took a handful of pellets from me and ate it slowly...but chewed and swallowed. Drinking water, strutting around...so much better    where is the happy tears smiley???*


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## Donna1982 (Jun 14, 2011)

I wonder if she ate a bee... Hmmm I am so happy to hear she is doing better though.


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

Minelson said:


> She is totally normal tonight. She is going headstrong for election at the hay! Gobbling it up. She took a handful of pellets from me and ate it slowly...but chewed and swallowed. Drinking water, strutting around...so much better    where is the happy tears smiley???


Yay Gretta :clap:


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

Glad to hear she is acting normal. I hope it stays that way now.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

W00t!


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## ani's ark (May 12, 2012)

So pleased for you!


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## BethW (May 3, 2007)

Go Gretta! It sounds like she's getting better. Still wish the mystery was solved, though.

Hugs to both of you tonight


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## The Tin Mom (Dec 30, 2008)

Oh, Michelle! What a relief! (((hugs)))


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## willielisa (Aug 15, 2011)

Did the lady you called say it was common to have an abscess in that spot? Or what might cause it? So glad she is doing better.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

Sounds like the Nuflor & maybe the combination of everything else is working! What ever it is I'm so glad it sounds like she's on the mend. Keep up with the Nuflor & don't forget probios or yogurt for a few days to a week afterwards to help get the bacteria back in her gut.


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## Ranger (Aug 6, 2010)

happy dance, happy dance!!!!!!!!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

willielisa said:


> Did the lady you called say it was common to have an abscess in that spot? Or what might cause it? So glad she is doing better.


She said that probably a sticker or something got lodged in there. She didn't say it was common but did seem to know exactly what I was talking about right away. I hardly started with the story and she zeroed in on it!


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## mercedes (Sep 1, 2012)

So happy for you!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know what a relief it is to see them start eating again.All the best to you and gretta.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

who is the goatie with the white patches? Im looking at your barn cam, Gretta looks ok 
Your goats are very lucky goats to have a mom like you


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Shygal said:


> who is the goatie with the white patches? Im looking at your barn cam, Gretta looks ok
> Your goats are very lucky goats to have a mom like you


If it's big and fat then it's Frankie


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Its big and fat yes lol but cute!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm getting more Nuflor from the vet this morning...in all my happiness of her recovery I forgot how horrible it was when he gave her the first dose. She screamed bloody murder  The thought of doing that to her again is quite unsettling  I'm going to have to get a friend to help hold her down. Buzz kill


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## Dreamgoat Annie (Nov 28, 2011)

*Fantastic*, Gretta!

Sue


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## andabigmac (Jan 10, 2011)

My vet is going crazy this year with all of the foxtail. Apparently it loves dry hot weather and has really flourished this year. It works its way into ears, noses, throats and paws. The animals end up having reactions a lot like Gretta's. I don't know if you have it there. If you don't, thank your lucky stars. We've been looking at houses and we've passed up 2 just because the fields and surrounding fields were full of it. Ugh. A stick or sticker would do the same thing. I'm glad Gretta's feeling better. Are you're still taking her in? I would just in case something is still lodged. She'll be back to eating Tinker in no time.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

andabigmac said:


> My vet is going crazy this year with all of the foxtail. Apparently it loves dry hot weather and has really flourished this year. It works its way into ears, noses, throats and paws. The animals end up having reactions a lot like Gretta's. I don't know if you have it there. If you don't, thank your lucky stars. We've been looking at houses and we've passed up 2 just because the fields and surrounding fields were full of it. Ugh. A stick or sticker would do the same thing. I'm glad Gretta's feeling better. Are you're still taking her in? I would just in case something is still lodged. She'll be back to eating Tinker in no time.


Yes we have foxtail here grrrr....we have lots of pokey things 
I don't know yet if we are going to do the dental on Tues. I have to toalk to the doc and see if we should wait and see.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I can't thank you all enough for the help and support through this. You all are just awesome and I would have never been able to make it without you!:grouphug::grouphug:


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Gretta is family  even if she can be the evil mean step sister sometimes


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