# Needing constructive advice...



## MrsFarmerWilly (Dec 25, 2005)

I'm not even sure how or what to ask for in the way of advice. But the situation is critical and help is needed. My 30 year old daughter and son in law have a beautiful and very intelligent 6 year old that they have placed upon a stone alter. From the moment they hit public school starting with preschool, there were problems. My son is energetic, smarter than the rest, he's bored, he's trying to "help" the other children, he is speaking back to the teachers, he won't stay seated, he won't stay quiet, but no matter what the teachers, principal or administrater says, it is always someone else's fault. The thing is, he never acts this way with his grandfather and me because we will not tolerate it. But the moment parents show up, it's like a different child has hatched. Now they have decided that they want him to go to the Catholic school associated with the church we go too. They are not Catholic and actually look down on religion in general. But they have seen they type of students that Catholic schools produce and I guess think they will magically transform him. I have spoken to her often, I have spoken with my son in law, however since he tends to run a little on the spineless side whatever my daughter decides is what what happens. Help me. Please, my grandson hangs in the balance of two worlds. He has been isolated at school, he sits alone, he eats alone, he isn't allowed to participate in reading time, nor will he be allowed to participate in the christmas program because of his talking and lack of following direction. This is not helpful, this is not the way to teach him, but I don't know how or a better way. So I'm asking those mothers out there that successfully home school, help me, help my grandson and help me help my daughter.
Thank you,
MFW


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Okay, I'm going to go against everything, EVERYTHING I normally to say to grandmothers in this situation, which is "BACK AWAY FROM THE GRANDCHILD" because I see some indicators that are setting off alarm bells for me.

While I normally cannot see ANY good coming from a situation where Grandma steps in, I think in this case, you might put forward a couple of things. However, keep in mind that anything you put forward that might look accusatory (and pretty much everything looks accusatory when you're on your last string with your kid and your mother says something) is going to alienate your daughter and her family.

My son has SID, or Sensory Integration Disorder. This condition often manifests itself in certain ways that sound familiar to your story. HOWEVER, if your grandson was dealing with physiological issues, I can guarantee you that you would see indicators of the same behavior when he was with you. The presence or lack thereof of his mother would not change a thing. In other words, he'd be a handful ALL of the time.

My question is, when he is with you, what is he eating/drinking, and does is behavior change more the longer he's with you? If it does, it could be diet related, but again, I'm stretching, if your post is accurate, because the minute momma is back, it sounds like he's going right back to the learned behavior. 

And that is what it most likely is. Learned behavior. You say that your SIL is a bit "spineless". Can we deduce from that that your daughter might be a bit "pushy"? "Strong willed"? More polite parties may call her "determined" or "forthright"?

If all of this is true, if your grandson IS capable of controlling his behavior when he knows what is expected of him by you and Grandpa, if it worsens when Momma is around, I hate to say it, but it sounds like attention seeking behavior, and it sounds like he's learned it from a pro. If momma "wears the pants" in her family, he might be learning that that is how you get attention -- by laying down the law. For a six year old, that means talking back, making sure that they're heard, and attempting to control situations (like refusing to do as they're told by a teacher, taking a "you can't make me" attitude.")

And if that is the case, and your SIL is "spineless" and your daughter refuses to accept that there is a problem, I'm afraid you're out of luck. 

If your daughter is willing to listen (or, better yet, has ASKED for help), tell her to get her child to a child psychologist, who will have the language to address the problem to your daughter without involving all those pesky mother/daughter issues. If she isn't, I don't know what to tell you. Changing schools doesn't change the home situation. If this is NOT physiological, then that is likely the problem. 

I don't mean to sound judgmental. I do mean to help you see that you're in a situation where you can't help your grandson unless your daughter wants or will accept your help, and it doesn't sound like she's there yet.

Maybe the best thing you can do for him is to increase the amount of time he spends with you. If he's searching for his place, as I suspect he is, I would also suspect that he LOVES the structure and clear boundaries in your home. Kids WANT boundaries, they feel more secure with them, and therefore it shouldn't, at this point, be difficult to get him to spend more time with you. In a few years, if the situation continues, that may not be the case.

Happily, if the Catholic school they are considering is still staffed by nuns, he WILL get more discipline. Trust me on this.

Tracy
(who knows all about Catholic schooling and how agile nuns can actually be)


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## MrsFarmerWilly (Dec 25, 2005)

Thank you, thank you, thank you! You have put into words what I could not. And the thing of it is, I see where my daughter has learned her demeanor. Since the day she was born, it was just her brother and myself with some help from sisters and a brother in law that was ran over like a steam engine by none other than my sister. She gave away her first son and I have always thought she was trying to make up for guilt by donning the second one as God. I know for a fact that diets are different here, I have seen his head spin in a 360 degree circle after a finger tip's tast of brownie mix, all that was missing was the pea soup! He goes to Mass with us every Sunday and is always the first to jump up for "Childrens Liturgy." If he starts to act up or squirm around all it takes is a gentle touch on his leg and he calms right down. I had also thought of something you said about seeking attention. He heads out to school at 7:30 AM, ends at 3:30 PM the bus takes him to "Kids Club" where he runs wild until 6:00 when mom gets there. By the time homework, dinner and bath is done it is time for bed. And you are correct, he has learned his attention seeking from watching mom and mammaw. Mom is and always has been "High Maintaince." And the only volume she has is LOUD, so she is constantly yelling. I also think you validated my idea of him spending more time here, with me. Pappaw's volume tends to always be loud too. And lastly, I also agree with the idea of my daughter, grandson AND son in law seeing someone. If there is anyone family that needs help it is them. Again, thank you for the time to sit down and help me, you have no idea what it has meant to me. Thank you.


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## Becka (Mar 15, 2008)

Part of the problem may be discipline, but part of it might just be that he is a kinetic learner. It took a long time but we finally realized this about our youngest. She learns better if she's moving around or touching things. I agree that backtalk and blaming others is poor discipline that needs to be addressed, but from what you've described, this child's learning style is different. Not all kids learn best by sitting quietly by themselves. When we finally "got" this, we tried a few things that have really helped her. We bought a small jogging style trampoline for her to jump on while we do spelling words or oral drills. We also let her put a toy in her hand to hold while she is doing her writing. 

From what we were told by a very experienced teacher, kinetic learners use both sides of their brain at once. So while the child is writing with one hand, holding something in the other hand keeps the other side of the brain occupied and they stay better focused. She also likes to talk while she's working, or have music playing in the background (which drives me nuts!)Now, I'm no expert, but this advice has really saved us a lot of frustration and we've noticed a BIG difference in our daughter.

Also, there is a good chance the child has any of the following:
Not enough rest at night
pinworms
too much sugar
an intolerance to any number of food additives or even foods themselves

We removed artificial flavors and colors from our daughter's diet, gave her more rest at night, and treated her for pinworms (which the doctor confirmed she had) and we also let her listen to music during homeschool. She's like a different kid now.


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## okgoatgal2 (May 28, 2002)

as a public teacher in middle school who also teaches 2 hrs of spec ed in 3rd and below, the teacher needs to talk to mom and dad without making any judgements. this boy needs to learn NOW how to behave or he will make every teacher he has miserable for years. he will also make his parents miserable! hopefully mom will see that her son is not perfect and that he does need to be disciplined for misbehavior. everyone involved may benefit from suggesting "shadowing"-following the kid all day at school to see what he does compared to how the other kids behave. it has been an eyeopener for parents!


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