# Underground Homes



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

My wife and I are looking at building an underground, earth-sheltered home. There seems to be a lot of advantages to this and between me, Forerunner, and a backhoe I think we could do it pretty quickly and cheaply.

Does anyone live in one now? What advantages have you gained from doing so, and what challenges have been presented?


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## Rootdigger (Jan 26, 2011)

do a search on Mike Ohler's...aww heck
http://www.undergroundhousing.com/structures2.html
Book has all the engineering and is a great read, if you buy the instructional vids he will consult with you on the phone. I had all the blueprints, logs peeled and was ready to dig when I met a gal with kids who said no way.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Cool.

In another thread, there was reference made to the notion that, if one dwells in a cave for any length of time, his ticket to Heaven will be much, _much_ cheaper.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Forerunner said:


> Cool.
> 
> In another thread, there was reference made to the notion that, if one dwells in a cave for any length of time, his ticket to Heaven will be much, _much_ cheaper.


I have been informed by the secretary of housing and development that if we can't make a cozy hobbit hole instead of a dank, dark cave-dungeon then we'd best not even bother to pick up a shovel.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Since when would the secretary of housing and development have any interest in seeing you get to Heaven ?:bash:


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

DH and I have been dreaming of building one. We've done some reading online and have a few books, but no actual experience. If you do it, PLEASE chronicle you journey for us!!

Someone up in CF was building one a few years back....he was updating as he progressed. He ran into a problem with the roof not being "engineering" properly for dirt and had to go with a shingled roof at last minute, IIRC. But it was still earth surrounded, I think.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I have wondered about the possibility of a berm house with earth to the north, full sun exposure to the south, the east and west portions both poured in a fashion to accommodate large compost piles to radiate heat to the interior of the home.
I'd have to look long and hard on this piece of land we call heaven....everything slopes the wrong way or is otherwise ill-situated for suitable underground.
Or.....maybe I'm just too picky and still don't mind cutting firewood.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

If I were building underground, I'd go with a monolithic dome for the strength. If I build again, though, I'm going to build a straw bale house again. This time in a place with no building codes!


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## Marabunta (Feb 24, 2011)

I live in one. Well, it's what you might call a 75%-underground home.

Main advantage: Lowwww utility bills.

I ran a small heater two days last winter. That's right, only two days - and that was when we were snowed in for four days, the sun didn't show its face, and the temperature dropped into single digits at night. Granted, I tend to tough out the temperature extremes more than most. But I don't think the indoor temp dropped much below 60.

Summers are not quite that easy, but my highest electric bill last summer was about $50. I kept a record of the outdoor and indoor temps, and while the outdoor high topped 100 occasionally, the indoor temp gradually climbed to a peak of 86 late in the summer as the ground heated up.

This house was built to take advantage of climatic conditions. For instance, it's open to the south, with large windows to gather sunlight in winter and south breeze in warmer seasons. And it's well sheltered from the cold north wind.

Minor disadvantages: Bugs and humidity

This house has settled over the years, so resulting cracks in the outer walls might allow bugs to enter where once they couldn't. It's not a big problem at all, just something that requires more attention in an underground home.

Drainage (as I learned during the first heavy rain after buying this house) is key in underground-home design. The ground is, of course, sloped away from the house. But so much rain was running off the outer, above-ground roof that it seeped through the two outer walls and right on in. The house didn't have a gutter system, so I installed one and have had no problems since. However, moisture does still seep through - again because of the cracks from settling - raising the humidity in warmer/wetter seasons.

Other than these minor inconveniences, I have zero complaints and am very happy in my "cave".


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## TheMrs (Jun 11, 2008)

We live in an earth-berm home. We moved out here a little over a year ago and I've grown to love it. I wasn't sure I'd like it at first. There was a fear of feeling like I was living in a cave, but there's actually a ton of daylight that comes in the house. The north, east, and west sides are built into the ground and the south side has lots of windows. In addition to the southern windows, the kitchen has a skylight to let in more light.

Here's a photo of the front of our home (south side):









Here's the back (north side):









The east side of the home has a root cellar attached that's also built into the ground:









The advantages we've seen so far is a savings in our electric bill, especially since we've added in more attic insulation and thermal curtains to the southern windows. I also like not having to worry about ushering the kids underground in case of a tornado. The kids' bedrooms are on the north side of the house, so they're already in an underground portion. Also, the house is extremely stable. Recently there was a small earthquake nearby that everyone was talking about feeling. We felt nothing. This house is solid.

Disadvantages? We have had some issues with ants in the house, but I don't know if that's common to earth-berm homes or if it's simply because of our location. Also, there's a room at the back of the garage that stays very moist. (This is on the north side, in the underground part.) We have had some trouble with things getting mildewy there. However, we haven't had that problem anywhere inside the finished part of the home. Perhaps the builders did a more thorough job on the finished portion of the home than they did the unfinished little storage room off the garage?? Finally, at our home the kids have easy access to the roof from the north side because it's literally just a few feet off the ground. I have this fear that the kids will get on the roof from the north side, walk onto the south side and jump off. Our oldest (6yo DS) is on the autism spectrum, and I can see him not realizing the danger in that.

In case this means anything...I've told DH that if our home burned or was destroyed for any reason, I would want to rebuild another earth-berm home similar to what we currently have. That's how much I've grown to enjoy and appreciate this place.


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## Marabunta (Feb 24, 2011)

TheMrs said:


> I also like not having to worry about ushering the kids underground in case of a tornado.


Good point. That's something I forgot to mention. (Shouldn't have, since tornado season is warming up, and I live at the southern end of Tornado Alley. But that just goes to show how little I worry about it now!)

A direct hit from a determined twister might rip the metal outer roof off this house, but I'd probably sleep right through it, having a couple feet of dirt between the inner and outer roofs. (I have a very-low-pitch roof, so it might escape damage completely.)


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## maverickxxx (Jan 25, 2011)

dig a big hole dump a foot of stone a couple forty foot shipping containers seal the outside more stone around them to drain the water. you got a 16x40 house that you fill dirt over. of course you have to figure out how you want acsses. they are water and weather proof supper sturdy and you can buy them for around 2500 a peice


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## maverickxxx (Jan 25, 2011)

oh you could a;so do a two story as well. weld them together and they arent going in anywhere and additions would be easy aswell.


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Ernie look up Davis cave on the net or Mother earth news. underground need not be damp dank or dark in fact unless you carefully build it in too much light can become a problem.
Earth bermed is next in line and much cheaper.
Dutch


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## Billie in MO (Jun 9, 2002)

We just bought an earth-bermed home last year. (front faces the south) It was the 3rd one we had looked at. I've lost count how many earth-bermed homes we have around us in a 30 mile radius. My dad lives in one (he built it in 1988 and still lives there) and my cousin built one a few years after my dad, almost identical to his and he still lives in it, too. Only problem my dad ever had was ants, (one year only) and he wished he had added an extra skylight over the dining room. As far as I know, my cousin has not had any problems.

Ours has a few issues but it stood empty for nearly a year before we bought it so we knew some of the issues. We have water that comes in the utility room at the back but the ground at the back of the house slopes toward the house. That will be fixed soon enough. Also there is garage attached to the house and it leaks between the house and the garage right over the door leading into the kitchen. The garage is all concrete, including the top. It is not quite level, and again, it slopes toward the house so the water pools against the house and drips down.

Humidity is a problem, too. Last July we were gone for a week or so and when we came back we had mold growing everywhere. We had yet to turn the air on so the mold just went crazy, I guess. But we had a rainy, rainy spring and summer, more than usual.

The house is very, very quiet. Our driveway is on the north side, goes up the hill then turns and goes south and then turns again around to the front of the house. I don't hear any one come up the drive, even if I happen to be upstairs. Only way I hear anything is if I have the doors open and sometimes not even then.

Our utility bills are a different story than Marabunta's, tho. During the spring and summer last year they were not "too" bad. More than we were used tho. Never turned the air on until the end of July, after we got back and found the mold. Winter was a different story altogether. We installed a wood burning fireplace insert with blowers and used that instead of the old furnace. We about had a heart attack when the electric bill came (almost $400). We have never, ever ever had an electric bill, in any house we have ever lived in that was over $200. Never! Average for us was $60-$70, with a little more in winter, but not much. That has got to change!!! Somehow, someway.

We have tornadoes here, too and I've been thru a few of them so I do feel safer in this house, plus it also has a real safe, encased in concrete, in the utility room, at the very back of the house.

All in all, we are happy with it but will continue to make changes to suit us. That's our experience. (so far)


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## Marabunta (Feb 24, 2011)

Billie in MO said:


> Our utility bills are a different story than Marabunta's, tho. During the spring and summer last year they were not "too" bad. More than we were used tho. Never turned the air on until the end of July, after we got back and found the mold. Winter was a different story altogether. We installed a wood burning fireplace insert with blowers and used that instead of the old furnace. We about had a heart attack when the electric bill came (almost $400). We have never, ever ever had an electric bill, in any house we have ever lived in that was over $200. Never! Average for us was $60-$70, with a little more in winter, but not much. That has got to change!!! Somehow, someway.


Well as I said, I tend to roll with the temperature extremes more than most. While some adjust their thermostats to 76 in the summer and 68 in the winter, mine is more like 82 in summer and 60 in winter.

I suspect that it'd be harder to heat an underground house to 70 in winter than to cool it to 70 in summer, simply because, in most of America, the earth cools down more in winter than it heats up in summer. Geothermal moderates the extremes, but which end is most uncomfortable and which end you work hardest to adjust varies from person to person.

Living alone, I can choose to just move my chair to a sunny window and toss a blanket over me while I read, or turn on a fan and have another glass of iced tea...whereas someone with a family might get too many complaints and have to crank up the heat or the A/C (as the case may be.) It's easy, in other words, to choose savings over comfort for oneself, but harder to choose savings over one's family's comfort.


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## Gabriel (Dec 2, 2008)

maverickxxx said:


> dig a big hole dump a foot of stone a couple forty foot shipping containers seal the outside more stone around them to drain the water. you got a 16x40 house that you fill dirt over. of course you have to figure out how you want acsses. they are water and weather proof supper sturdy and you can buy them for around 2500 a peice


Containers can't take the lateral pressure, they're designed to be strong enough only on corners so as to hold another container on top. The side walls will buckle... this is personal experience speaking. 

I second the monolithic dome suggestion. Bury it half way into a hillside.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

ernie said:


> i have been informed by the secretary of housing and development that if we can't make a cozy hobbit hole instead of a dank, dark cave-dungeon then we'd best not even bother to pick up a shovel.


lol


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

I've always liked the idea of an underground house, but I've never owned land that was suitable until now, but this place already has a house on it. I can see where light and humidity would be issues, but there are some pretty effective ways to handle them.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Ernie,

If your looking for an all concrete structure. A real "engineered" type building. Get a set of stamped structural drawings. It will totally avoid any code issues. Then I'd suggest you get a few price quotes from Precast and prestressed concrete companies in your area. Mostly it will be cheaper to have the panels cast and placed. Rather than just pour it in place. Sometimes drastically so. 20 thousand should easily get you "weathered" in. Course it depends on the size. For installed price. Figure 5 times the cost of concrete in your area. This seams steep at first. But it includes everything. All materials to final placement of the pieces on site. It will likely take them a month or so to make the castings. But it will only take a day or two to set them in place. Kinda like a modular building. You can even have them incorporate insulation foam right into the pieces. In fact I would suggest you do. If you can get it. Prestressed concrete panels will give you a very strong long lasting structure at a very reasonable price. The spans using prestressed can be whatever you want. 20 or 30 feet of clear span is not an issue. You can even have water pipe and electric cast in. But it will elevate the price quickly, But give less site work. If you can only get precast. I suggest you have it all "post stressed". I also suggest you post stress all the pieces after final placement. It will make it a nearly bomb proof structure.  

We had a set of structural drawings made a few years back. It cost less than 100 bucks IIRC. It wasn't the total plan if you know what I mean. Like it didn't have electrical or plumbing. Just spans, thickness of members, loading, and structural things. You don't really need the rest to build as you can just follow code. Like so many outlets per foot of wall for instance. 


One other thing to consider. When I build I will be using only concrete or steel studs and exterior waterproof gypsum board for the interior walls. It has no paper or wood products to support mold growth the "paper" is replaced with fiberglass. This would make for one less worry.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Thanks for the info, guys. I've got some books on this stuff but they aren't useful for telling you the potential problems.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Ernie,

Here is a thread from a while back... You may find some of the info really worth considering.

eep:


http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=222245&highlight=underground+house


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## kvr28 (Feb 15, 2009)

we live in a bermed house we built 2 years ago, we use about a half cord of wood a winter and 10 gallons of propane a month, I highly recommend them


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

I second Mike Oehler's book if you haven't already read it. It covers all the problems with the common designs, and gives you his solutions. The way he does it, you have light and air flow from four directions. I've been in one built from his design, and it wasn't damp like a basement at all. I've been in many others that just feel like a basement.


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

A thread on a different forum about a couple who built a poured concrete earth bermed home:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/tennessee/359683-going-off-grid-east-tennessee.html

We want to build an earth bermed or underground home, too. So far my research agrees that drainage is key - get it right during construction. Other issues are egress from bedrooms and controlling humidity levels (again, best dealt with during construction). And I learned that burning propane puts a lot of moisture into the air.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Sounds like a giant pain in the neck.


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

Well, the hole is dug..was just waiting to see how bad the IRS was gonna kill me this year before I started.

I'm going with a different style of construction, 3/4" plywood over 6" studs, screwed and glued and covered with fiberglass. Think wood boat building. It's not going to be enormous. We don't need a lot of space. luckily my wife likes the darkness of "the cave".


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## Marabunta (Feb 24, 2011)

Just Cliff said:


> luckily my wife likes the darkness of "the cave".


Put in a couple skylights maybe? My house has two in the inner rooms, that go up three feet and provide diffused light. Like having a window with curtains. Makes quite a difference.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

If I was building underground....I would go fully underground.......no reason to have any exterior to worry about the upkeep of and reap the full benifits of building below grade....


I know.....the secretary of housing would want windows for light....but you could do like is currently done in that situation and build panels that look like windows with light behind them....it is actually pretty convincing as a window and you can use full spectrum bulbs to make it even better...


Solar tubes are another way to let natural light in also.....

The big plus here about full underground is you are only a few steps away from full bunker status and have the ability to go super secure...I think the last NBC{nuclear,biological,chemical} filter/air pump I looked at was about 3 grand.......


Soo many pluses for building fully underground it`s not funny, especially in this day and age......


..... ............................................... eep:..........................................


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

Check out the folks at many tracks (wrote "Homesteading Adventures, A Guide for Doers and Dreamers" and many articles in some of the homesteading magazines)

http://www.manytracks.com/House/House.htm


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## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

I will be very interested to see your progress and hear your adventures  

We seriously thought about doing an earth bermed house but I think we've decided to do a timber framed, cordwood infilled home instead. 

Don't forget to put a couple escape tunnels out the back!


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## lorian (Sep 4, 2005)

Minor disadvantages: Bugs and humidity

Wow, no way is this a MINOR disadvantage to me! Can you say "spiders"?~

We have an area of our home that is below grade and the spiders...oh wow do I hate them! They are always coming in at those areas. A whole house like that? NO thanks!


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Always thought the best OPSEC for a compound would be camouflage... the perfect compound/bug out place would be a small tarpaper shack, say 12' x 12', with rotten windows, and very little of value visible inside. Hidden in the floorboards though would be a trapdoor, leading to an underground home.

A person conquers the claustrophobia and the moisture issues, and you've got it made. A mycologists dream home.


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## Billie in MO (Jun 9, 2002)

Marabunta said:


> Well as I said, I tend to roll with the temperature extremes more than most. While some adjust their thermostats to 76 in the summer and 68 in the winter, mine is more like 82 in summer and 60 in winter.
> 
> I suspect that it'd be harder to heat an underground house to 70 in winter than to cool it to 70 in summer, simply because, in most of America, the earth cools down more in winter than it heats up in summer. Geothermal moderates the extremes, but which end is most uncomfortable and which end you work hardest to adjust varies from person to person.
> 
> Living alone, I can choose to just move my chair to a sunny window and toss a blanket over me while I read, or turn on a fan and have another glass of iced tea...whereas someone with a family might get too many complaints and have to crank up the heat or the A/C (as the case may be.) It's easy, in other words, to choose savings over comfort for oneself, but harder to choose savings over one's family's comfort.



Marabunta, I too, tend to roll with the temp extremes. I can tolerate high heat very well and fairly cool temps. It was 91 today and I was quite comfortable with no air. (would not have turned it on this early anyway). The furnace is off now and the high for tomorrow will be 45. Your settings sound about like ours. We even have less appliances than we had before. Everything turned off, even now I have no lights on as I sit here, with a blanket over my legs. My comfort level is lower than most. Like you, I will move my chair to the sun and we have blankets on our chairs to cover up with, or I go upstairs where the heat is. We tend to not have many people visit us because of our lower/higher temp settings. The only time I really adjust it is for the grandkids and then that depends, as well.

I tend to suspect we are paying more for electric here than the other state we used to live in. Same habits there as here, same lower/higher temp settings, only difference is square footage of house. Just need to dig out our old bills and compare. This was our first year in this house so we had nothing to compare it to.


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## Marabunta (Feb 24, 2011)

lorian said:


> Minor disadvantages: Bugs and humidity
> 
> Wow, no way is this a MINOR disadvantage to me! Can you say "spiders"?~
> 
> We have an area of our home that is below grade and the spiders...oh wow do I hate them! They are always coming in at those areas. A whole house like that? NO thanks!


LOL! I'm not a big fan of spiders myself. But I realize they're good to have around, as they eat other bugs. So I tolerate them to an extent.

Spiders and I have worked out a deal: If I see them in my house, they die. If I don't see them, or if they stay outside, they get to live. (Well okay, we didn't exactly WORK OUT that deal. I dictated the terms, since God gave me dominion over them.


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