# Some Berkshire Mangalitsa cross



## Vineyard Farm (May 21, 2018)

DD308447-CD34-4FD1-A546-1CE81980BD79




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Vineyard Farm


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Jul 18, 2018




Berkshire/Mangalitsa


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Nice. That's what I would like to try one day, after the experiences I had with Guinea Berks.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I would suspect the breeders that spent their lives developing these distinct breeds would roll in their graves at the thoughts of such crosses. Enjoy.


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## Pig in a poke (Mar 27, 2013)

Every breed of every domesticated animal species is a human construct. Somebody had to select "unbreeded" animals to create a breed in the first place. Noah didn't have pairs of Mangalitsa, Berkshire, or any other "breed" of pig on his boat.


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## Pig in a poke (Mar 27, 2013)

Vineyard Farm, are they 50/50 cross?


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## Vineyard Farm (May 21, 2018)

Pig in a poke said:


> Vineyard Farm, are they 50/50 cross?


They are 50/50. Berkshire sow and Mangalitsa boar


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## Vineyard Farm (May 21, 2018)

2CA6561F-56E6-4C94-AE06-4859841D991D




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Vineyard Farm


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Jul 18, 2018




3yr old Berkshire sow









  








05B38DF3-56EE-4E6A-84DF-6DFFF8C8C501




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Vineyard Farm


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Jul 18, 2018




mangalitsa boar


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Pig in a poke said:


> Every breed of every domesticated animal species is a human construct. Somebody had to select "unbreeded" animals to create a breed in the first place. Noah didn't have pairs of Mangalitsa, Berkshire, or any other "breed" of pig on his boat.


Yes. We agree on that. The creation of most breeds, cattle, pigs, horses, whatever, requires a breed goal and ruthless culling of those animals that deviate from this ideal.
A Pit Pony, bred for small size and strength to work in mines, crossed with a Thoroughbred, bred to be fleet of foot, will not result in a dual purpose horse.
A Scottish Highland, bred for a thick protective coat, an aggressive attitude to thwart predators and survival on poor forage, crossed with a Holstein, bred to produce massive amounts of milk from quality forage, will not result in a dual purpose cow.
Crossing a novelty, uncommon, slow growing heritage breed of hairy pigs reported to have more well marbled red pork with another rare, slow growing heritage breed known to have well marbled pork serves to snuff out hundred years of striving towards a unique breed standard for two somewhat rare heritage breeds. But it's a free world and I wish you tons of success.


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## Vineyard Farm (May 21, 2018)

I also breed pure mangalitsa. A bit harder to find buyers for the pure breed mangs. Many people prefer the Berkshire cross because the pure mangalitsa cooks a lot different than other pork and the flavor is too strong. And the growth rate for the crosses are substantially better.


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## Pig in a poke (Mar 27, 2013)

I am not sure the point you are trying to make with these analogies. You have two examples of crossing disparate phenotypes (equine and bovine), but then describe the two pig breeds as having lots of common traits. How are these comparable? Breeding "like to like" reinforces phenotype. Cross-breeding is historically done to produce hybrid vigor, but has inconsistent results.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Pig in a poke said:


> I am not sure the point you are trying to make with these analogies. You have two examples of crossing disparate phenotypes (equine and bovine), but then describe the two pig breeds as having lots of common traits. How are these comparable? Breeding "like to like" reinforces phenotype. Cross-breeding is historically done to produce hybrid vigor, but has inconsistent results.


Sorry my point wasn't clear. But first, let me say I support your right to do anything you wish.
Let me try again.
Let's say I have a registered Fjord draft mare. I want more similar draft horses, so I get her bred to a Suffolk draft horse. All of the unique traits that Fjord breeders have selected are now tossed into the DNA stew with all the unique traits that hundreds of years of careful selection for the Suffolk. There is then no way to determine which traits from which breed I'll end up with. Crossbreeding is never an even blending of both breeds. That the Fjord breed is low in numbers, crossing to another breed ends that "family tree".
Sometimes hybrid vigor exists, but it always results in a loss of a purebred animal.
If a person seeks to buy meat from the rare heritage breed Mangalitsa, will they accept pork that is partly Mangalitsa?
It really isn't a big deal to me, but I recognize the efforts of many lifetimes creating these specific breeds and how quickly it can disappear. I hope that better explains my earlier comments.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

haypoint said:


> I would suspect the breeders that spent their lives developing these distinct breeds would roll in their graves at the thoughts of such crosses. Enjoy.


Look kid. I sure would like to buy you for the value of what you know, and sell you for the value of what you think you know. I'm sure the breeders that developed the plymouth rock would roll over in their graves knowing that their birds are crossed with Cornish, and the Cornish breeders likewise. I feel certain that the Asil breeders would have not approved of their birds being mixed with the Old English Games to create the Cornish, as they were mostly Islamic, and Asil means "pure" in their language, but here we are with billions of commercial broilers that are roughly 25% ancient heritage breed game chicken. 

This is a slow growing pig with very succulent fat, and deep red, very good flavored meat, crossed on a faster growing commercial type that is marbled enough that it won't ruin the marbling of the former. I have had such crosses before, and would drive long distances and pay lots of money for such crosses again, driving past tractor trailer loads of $20 commercial type feeder hogs. They were that good. Fast growing usually means "tastes like wet cardboard". Berk is the best tasting of the fast growers. Herefords would probably be a good cross too.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

And actually, hybrids that come from two pure lines are probably more predictable in terms of outcomes than the purebreds. The more difference their is, the more hybrid vigor they will have. The entire beef industry is build around hybrid vigor. F1 Brafords will outgrow black baldies because of more disparate genetics involved. Balck baldies will outgrow the angus or hereford they are made with. Most are made from simm now, because of the increased disparity offering more hybrid vigor, and the fact that herefords are no longer commercially viable as a breed. (the ones that are are simmentals registered as herefords.)

Every commercial broiler in the US is a hybrid. Why don't they breed purebreds if crossbreds are so inconsistent?


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## Pig in a poke (Mar 27, 2013)

Barnbilder, I’m not sure if your question was directed at me. I meant cross-breeding is inconsistent in that there is great variation of phenotype within a litter of pigs. So in that sense, I do agree with haypoint that cross-breeding does not result in an even blend of genetics. 
On the flip side, purebred can produce some “throwbacks” unexpectedly. 
That’s interesting that poultry breeders use the term asil. I thought only breeders of a sub group of Egyptian Arabian horses used that term to snub everyone else’s “less pure” Arabian horses. Which gets me to the crux of my position on cross breeding. All light breeds of horses descend from Arabian horses. So basically, if no one had crossed them with other stock, there would be no Thoroughbred, Quarter Horse, Morgan, etc. 
and BTW Haypoint, I’m not the OP but I am curious what purebred pig breed you would recommend as producing a good ratio of meat and fat? That is the purpose of the lean-lard cross.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Pig in a poke said:


> and BTW Haypoint, I’m not the OP but I am curious what purebred pig breed you would recommend as producing a good ratio of meat and fat? That is the purpose of the lean-lard cross.


A few common breeds come to mind, Large Black, AKA Large English Black crossed with long, lean Landrace.
But if you are going to raise "specialty pork " selling to a customer base that cares what breed their pork is, stick to a breed they can google, not a bit of this and a bit of that. This is especially true when you are raising a rare, heritage breed. I think the original Hereford pigs were lost forever due to crossing. What we have now is a sort of newer recreation of Herefords.
Cross most of the Mangalitsa and they'll be gone too. At one time Large Blacks were endangered.
Just about any breed will have better taste and a good ratio of fat/meat if you feed them correctly. Conversely, these rare breeds may not produce tasty pork if left to survive on weedy pastures and bakery waste.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

If you want to grow good tasting freezer pork cross berk with guinea, manga, ossabaw, or mulefoot and you have good unique flavored pork. It's all about the terminal cross. Breeding is something different entirely. This haypoint guy gets confused and thinks you are going to slip them through in the registry or something, like they did when they improved the hereford cattle with simmental. That is a different deal. They were just no longer commercially viable, and had too many defects, thanks to the tight gene pool imposed by breeders. So they slipped in a simmental of similar phenotype and hoped nobody would notice. What the original poster is talking about doing is not making an outcross to improve a pure breed, they are making a terminal hybrid, which is common practice in any animal grown for meat, including commercial hogs. Hybrids made from pure breeds generally have very predictable results.


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## Vineyard Farm (May 21, 2018)

Here


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