# Best gun to hide in a cache?



## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

Ive been thinking of burying a cache. Want to do a small one. Will triple seal everything in the vacuum sealed bags and then put it in a 12 inch diameter pvc pipe with glued ends. Will probably bury it under a croner marker fence post. 

I was thinking of adding a handgun and some ammo. Ammo would be sealed and then dipped in wax. Handgun would be greased up and sealed and I would include a cleaning kit so I could get it ready to fire on the spot. 

I dont want to bury an expensive gun. And, most are expensive. I would think a 9mm would be the best to bury since from an ammo supply standpoint, there is probably more of it than other calibers of ammo. I was also thinking a revolver would be best because there are less mechanical parts to go bad. But, again, I dont want to spend $500 on a gun Im gonna bury and not use. 

So, from a price and useability standpoint, what do you think would be the best to add to the cache? 

Other items I was thinking of adding was copies of birth cetificates, small coin bag of older silver us coins, maybe $100 us currency and the same amount in Euro's if possible, space blanket, small knife, a few small first aid items, some paracord, some type of long term storable food stuffs. Anything else small that should be added that would be good?


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## tallpaul (Sep 5, 2004)

somethin cheap and usable... technically if things are that bad you will use it to acquire another/better arm from one of the occupiers... so extreme cost or durability is not likely a requirement. A surplus rifle would not be a bad choice/addition either.


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## Jack T. (Feb 11, 2008)

Have you seen the Mossberg JIC (Just-In-Case) shotguns? Mossberg 500, blued, pistol grip, 18.5" barrel. . .all packed in a waterproof PVC tube. They also have a "marine" version that is stainless. Wouldn't fit the 12" requirement. . .but if it gets that bad, I'd rather have a shotgun than a handgun. You know what they say. . .the only reason for a handgun is to fight your way back to your long gun.

However. . .a police trade-in Glock 17/19 would be my pick for a handgun. Pick one up for ~$350, light, high capacity, ultimate point-and-click interface.


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## THETOOLMAN (Feb 15, 2008)

I got a takedown .22 the whole thing fits & seals in the butstock I bought 5 bricks of .22lr rounds to feed the family with . I put a segical kit, with extra sutchers,wind up radio all in a section of well casing sealed & dropped down a abandoned open well, 60 feet ... I have a way to get it out really easy..


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## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

The suture kit is a good idea. My wifes a nurse so Ill have to have here bring one home to add to it. As for the gun, Id rather it be a handgun than a long gun. Id rather have some thing I could conceal. That JIC shotgun sounds pretty neat though, Ill have to check it out anyways.


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## gunsmithgirl (Sep 28, 2003)

Personally I would go with a 1911 pistol and the shotgun. .45 ACP and 12 guage are both common rounds that can be found easily.
The gun thetoolman is speaking of is called an AR-7 and would also pack up nicely, and can sometimes be found pretty cheap. and .22 is the cheapest ammo you can buy.That would be a good one too.


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## tn_junk (Nov 28, 2006)

Single Shot .22 Rifle and 12 ga shotgun. New England Firearms. Both break down way small, and ammo for both is common.

alan


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## Lorax_Of_Gilead (Mar 12, 2007)

I've been looking at the Medusa 47. Haven't seen a lot of information on it however. http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Revolvers/Medusa_Model_47.htm The concensus that I have recieved is that it'd probably be tough on brass.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Have you seen or handled a TC Contender? One frame, with dozens of different calibers (and wildcat calibers for the adventurous), in lengths from 6" to 21 or maybe 26", can be a handgun or rifle, depending on stocks. Then you have the Encore line from TC... all of the 'hotter calibers'.

I personally like the Contender. Takes just a few seconds to change barrels. Single shot of course. Not a battle gun, unless you want to snipe. Imagine a match grade .22 pistol or rifle barrel (shoot a squirrel in the EYE) and a 30.30 to take deer to two hundred yards... and maybe a 45.70 to take out buffalo or elk...

If I could have only one 'gun'... I'd cheat and say Contender!!! and about half a dozen barrels. If space is a premium, this rifle/pistol does her all...


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## meancoyote (Jun 9, 2007)

nathan104 said:


> But, again, I dont want to spend $500 on a gun Im gonna bury and not use.


I would say a AR15 with spare parts , mags, and ammo. May be more than $500, but if things are so bad that im digging up my stashes, I want firepower. May not ever need it, but if you do, it may be the most important firearm you ever own?


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## remmettn (Dec 26, 2005)

galump said:


> Single Shot .22 Rifle and 12 ga shotgun. New England Firearms. Both break down way small, and ammo for both is common.
> 
> alan


Single Shot .22 Rifle and 12 ga shotgun
Both I got at yard saleâs so no link to me.
Also low cost so if they are lost or stolen no real loss. 
:rock:


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## Bladesmith (Sep 20, 2003)

If you plan to cache a long gun, make it a .22. And if you're goingto take up the room with a rifle, why limit yourself to a single shot?

Cache a ruger 10/22

if you're only cacheing a pistol, also make that a .22 as well.


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## FalconDance (Feb 4, 2007)

If I might add a total non-expert opinion --- make the pistol a revolver. A semi-automatic can and does jam a _lot_ more easily and then you're sol. I've seen this in action several times; my girlfriend's semi .22 is a neat, lightweight little gun, but it jams for no apparent reason, once in a key situation. She had to completely tear it down for it to fire the next time (never found any reason for the lock up). In a situation, that would be BAD. My .22 revolver, however, has never done so - and shoots like a dream even if it is a little on the hefty side (it's an older model).


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

The local Gander Mountain has these on sale @ our local store, right now:
http://www.bigskyguns.com/Mossberg-Mossberg_Crusier_Kit_Just_In_Case.html


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hi Guys,
You've let the topic wander quit a bit. If I were going to have cashe guns (if you do I wouldn't tell just anyone) a handgun is the ultimate tool to defend yourself. 
Its concealability is the thing that so much offends those that would make slaves of us all.
So a high reliabile tool. Enough ammo 50 rounds should get you 25 plus rifles and kit to distribute around. If you use the tool correctly. If you need me to go into how that works I can, you won't like it tho.

But this is the time to do it if your going to! Shortly you won't be able to. 

For the true TSHTF situation several caches. Equiveleant to a bug out bag might be good. Know you have a use for those ammo cans sized for 4 morter rounds.

A cashe with a battle rifle (bolt action WW2) and ammo, cleaning kit. I can spend a week on why a bolt gun is the right one for this. Another for why a military bolt.
The cheap one know would be a former Czarist Moisin Nagant carbine in 7.62 X 54R selling at fleet farm for $70 add a sealed can of 440 rounds of ammo for $45 ,a cleaning kit roughly $10 4 foot of 4 inch PVC 2 end caps PVC sealing cement. post hole digger. 
Bury it near another expected metal mass to confuse metal detectors.
This is a 30-06 class rifle there just extremly homley! Built to allow russian peasants in the 1890's to shot a modern bolt action and made till after WW2.

Another cashe with a 22 rifle with 1 -5 thousand rounds cleaning kit. a good thing.


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## cornbread (Jul 4, 2005)

I like the Stainless Mossberg for Cache.

For a little more money (about $355.00) I would like to go with the Stainless Steel Marinecote MS52340 MOSSBERG 500 JIC JUST IN CASE MARINER SHOTGUN 12/18.5 NK 6SH it looks like a real good way to store and Cache a good gun.

C:\Documents and Settings\John NA\My Documents\Mossberg Crusier Kit Just In Case MarineCote - Mossberg by Big Sky Guns LLC.mht


The wife and I spend about 6 months a year traveling in our 5th wheel RV and most of it is boon docking no one around. I believe I will get one to stay in it this RV. 

This is also our bug out vehicle I believe we could live in to for as long and needed.


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

nathan104 said:


> Ive been thinking of burying a cache. Want to do a small one. Will triple seal everything in the vacuum sealed bags and then put it in a 12 inch diameter pvc pipe with glued ends. Will probably bury it under a croner marker fence post.
> 
> I was thinking of adding a handgun and some ammo. Ammo would be sealed and then dipped in wax. Handgun would be greased up and sealed and I would include a cleaning kit so I could get it ready to fire on the spot.
> 
> ...



I suppose it depends on what kind of situation you expect to be facing if you need to dig up your stash....bugging out?...hunkering down?....huntin'?....defending yourself?....all of the above?
All things being equal, and taking the size of the firearm into consideration, I'd probably choose a target-grade handgun in .22 lr, probably one of the time-tested and reliable old autos.....the ruger mark serise (and its variants) and Browning buckmark come to mind. OTOH, some of the ruger single six revolvers accept both lr and .22 magnum, a pretty danged signifigant increase in power. 
A thousand rounds of .22 lr doesn't weigh much, or take up much space. In the right hands, it'll handle your hunting, as well as self-defense. 
In a pinch, I'd be pretty comfortable with just my Ruger 22/45 target model, a variant of the mark serise. It's rock-solid reliable, stainless steel and polymer to handle adverse conditions, and quite accurate.
If you don't spend time on the range with a handgun, though, any handgun is a poor choice IMO....it takes most folks a great deal of practice to become proficient with one.
Other possible options...
A decent .357 mag revolver. With the option of using .38 spl rounds, all the way up to a hot-loaded magnum cartridge, it's real versitile. My S&W 686 shoots like a dream, and I've taken everything from rabbits, to whitetails, to hogs with it. Nice ones can be had for a few hundred bucks, or maybe a little less.
An "over and under" shotty/rifle combo might be one to consider, but I ain't too sure how comfortable I'd be with nuthin' but a single-shot in a zombie-slayin' situation....
you've got some good ideas on other stuff to include in you cache....the paracord is a danged fine idea.
Other stuff to consider (depending on how big the cache will be)....
A roll of 3mil plastic, and some duct tape. With this and your para cord, you've got a way to stay dry.
Thin gauge wire. Snares don't make noise, can get you more game than a firearm, and it's just handy stuff, in general. If I had a nickle for every time a little bit of wire has gotten me out of a jam.......
Along with you dried beans and whatnot, maybe a litlle bit if high-energy "eat it on the run" food. If you find yourself in a "cache-diggin'" situation, it's likely that you'll be in too much of a hurry to build a fire, and break out the dutch oven.
A change of clothes, waterproof matches, a candle, fire starters, pint of Jim Beam, mess kit, and a small water purifier might be good ideas, too.
Don't forget to bury a hacksaw or somethin' nearby, so you can crack into your cache.
If your prepping is to the point that you're in a position to bury some of it, ya' mst be doing something right...good for you!


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## Photo-bug (Jan 17, 2007)

I have a mossberg JIC. I love it. THe container is great and there is still lots of room for other goodies. I don't have the Stainless model but I think thats the better way to go. WHen I can afford it I'm going to pick up a few more. I currently have mine stored in the tub along with my customm mini survival kit, and 100 shells. There is still room so I think I will add a few things to it.
Probably throw in a hand gun, additional ammo. Maybe some money or silver eagles, maybe even a few dehydrated muchies.


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## cranky1950 (Jul 31, 2007)

Come on folks, the cheapest bang for the buck has to be an sks with a plastic stock. Coat the metals with lps and wrap them in plastic and put the stock in separately, 1000 rounds of ammo for 200 bucks the gun won't cost much more. Throw in a bunch of stripper clips and you;re ready to do battle with zombies on short notice.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Any spring-loaded clip and you can not load the clip before storage.

I have buried S&W revolvers, loaded.

When you are digging it up again, one hand can reach in and remove a functional firearm.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

I think that no matter what, sealed or not, burying anything metal will be a victim of rust, as the difference in temps will cause condensation, from with in, in a sealed container.
You would have to pack in grease of some kind, clips and all, not what I would want to deal with in a hurry.
SKS would be a good choice as you wouldn't really have to worry if it rusted or not.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Best gun to bury in a cache?

A stolen one
An illegal one
An unregistered and unknown one

When the time comes you need to dig that gun up and use it, then it may be best if it's not traceable back to you in any way.


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## renloy (Oct 31, 2007)

If you're lucky (or unlucky) enough to own an illegal full auto thats probably a good candidate. If SHTF nobody is going to be around to check your papers


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## SW41Mag (Jan 28, 2007)

Just bought a used Russian Mosin Nagant rifle in good condition for $84 and 440 rounds of 7.62x54R sealed in a tin for $80. Straight shooting rifle with a very hard hitting bullet. For $184 it is affordable, reliable, and if something happens to it you're out less than $200.


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## FirefighterEd (Aug 4, 2007)

The original poster mentioned copies of personal paperwork. DON'T !! 

If you were/are gonna do this, leave no fingerprints on anything and absolutly nothing to connect the cache to you or your family.


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

What gun to cache? Decisions, decisions. Part of the equation is "what do you expect you'll need when you break into the cache?" Another part is "what can you afford to put in now?"

One thing about most firearms - in a society meltdown, they're temporary. Ammunition won't last forever. Nor will reloading supplies. Maybe you need to store a crossbow and bolts, bow and arrows, instructions for making more, instructions on making and using a sling, or atlatl and darts.

As far as firearms are concerned, do you want to store something you can reload with black powder? Or are your firearms a short-term bridge you're prepared to discard when you run out of ammo?

Shotguns are nice to use. Shotguns are expensive to use (in terms of amount of propellant). They'll still work though if you've got percussion caps and black powder.

Rifles: You can store something that will work on black powder (45-70, 38-55, 44-40, 45LC; or newer like .44 Magnum or .357 Magnum). 
Or you could take a step back from that and get a muzzle-loader that doesn't need brass and caps.
Or you could store something that uses smokeless powder, store ammo for it, use it while you've got it (frugally, I'd guess), and accept that it will be useless if/when you can't reload it.

Pistols: see rifles above. Revolvers are versatile, self-loaders will only work with the loads you've tested them with. 32-20 makes a just-barely adequate 100-yard deer-rifle in heavy brush, but a mighty powerful pistol. I'd prefer a carbine and pistol in .44 Magnum or the like; or .357 Magnum pair. A .38 Special load in round nose or wadcutter cast bullet will kill rabbits without destroying the entire carcase, same firearm with a heavier load and maybe a different bullet will bring down deer, wild swine or black bear.

I'd assume that if you're breaking into your cache then things are desperate, for one reason or another. You'll be more concerned with your firearms working right then, than how long they'll go on. You want to put away now something (including ammo) that's cheap, but will kill deer, swine, men, or head shots on rabbits. Reloadable is nice but not first priority. I'd look for best value in a military round, preferably something that's served as a Main Battle Rifle (MBR).

Seems to me that at the moment the Russian bolt-actions in 7.62x54R are it, far preferably the long rifle. The carbines destroy your hearing very quickly if you have to fire even one shot without getting your hearing protection on (the rifles only do it slowly); and that's contra-survival. The Finnish ones are even better, but much more pricey. Either way, you store a bulk box or two of military ammo, which is NOT reloadable because it's Berdan primed. You could also store commercial Boxer-primed ammo or brass.

Alternatively, if you can get them at the right price, SMLE in .303 British or .308, boxed military ammo, plus commercial boxer ammo or brass if you want to reload it. The .303 was originated as a compressed black-powder round, a hollow cylinder of black powder in the cartridge. For this purpose, I'd take what I could get, preferably long-range. That mostly means thirty-calibre or 7.x or 8mm of some sort, but even the .223 would do. So would the 7.62x39 in AK or SKS if the price was right, but they are shorter-range (just 200 yards or maybe 200 metres at best).

So, a MBR and approx. 500 or 1,000 rounds in a military pack, plus at your option say 100 or 200 commercial Boxer ammo or brass, plus reloading equipment and supplies.

Single-shot are fine for hunting, but break-action are just horrible for battle. Bolt-action, rolling-block or falling-block are fine, since you can work them prone.

I'd also store some form of .22 rimfire (two firearms per cache). It should be a very versatile semi-auto, a bolt- or lever-action, or a revolver pistol. A good pistol will be as accurate as most .22 rifles, although not as easy to shoot. With two cylinders, a revolver could manage both your standard .22 rimfire, plus .22 WRM (Winchester Rimfire Magnum). .22WRM in a six-inch barrel is about equivalent to .38 Special in a sub-nose; and gives you both a hide-away gun and cheap compact .22 shooting.

That's what I'd do - MBR, plus .22 revolver with exchangeable cylinder and about two bricks (500 bullets per) of both .22 and .22WRM . Maybe four bricks of the standard .22 rimfire.The latter is a compromise, but it seems like the best compromise you can manage to me. Plus a cleaning kit to fit both and any others.

As an alternative, I'd store the Ruger .22 semi-auto rifle, spare mags, say ten bricks of .22 hollow-point for small-game hunting, plus twenty bricks in solid-point for penetration on larger game (say up to man-sized).

Everything, I'd shoot-in before I stored; so I'd have a reasonable chance that it would hit what I shot at first time, when I pulled it out of the cache.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I agree with a shotgun in 12 guage and bury your papers somewhere else. Dig the hole a couple of feet deeper than needed and ill with compaced sand (water compacts sand well) then your tubular cache then more sand compacted then a thin layer of soil and then a largish rock. Al removeable by hand you can dig with your bare hands and retreive what you need.


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

Just a thought - lots of people use steel pipe as posts. If you used 6" pipe, welded shaped 3/4" pipe crescents inside it to guide fence wire round the walls, then you'd have something which couldn't readily be busted with a metal-detector. Set the base in concrete to above ground level in the post, put your cache in 4" PVC pipe (whatever dimensions work - big corner posts are natural), hide it in your corner posts, fill the gaps with sand and a cap over the post (above ground-water level too). No-one would know to look, but if you snipped one wire you could find out if THAT post had the cache (because it had the internal piping wire bypass).


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