# Tagasaste



## Shinsan

I recently posted this in another forum, but as I have not received any replies, I'm wondering if anyone in this forum can give me an answer.

Is Tagasaste (pronounced 'tagga-sass-tee'), sometimes called tree lucerne or saltbush, grown in the U.S.?
This plant, (botanical name _Chamaecytisus palmenis_), is an evergreen leguminous tree-shrub which produces masses of white flowers in early spring. Originating in the Canary Islands, Tagasaste has been planted in Australian gardens as an ornamental, on farms as a wind break, (can be grown as a hedge), and has been utilised by pastoralists for its food value for many years. On many farms, particularly those susceptible to drought, it is often used as a forage food plant. It also provides a protective habitat for native birds and winter nectar for bees. 
If tagasaste is not grown where you are, is there a similar type of plant that you know of, that can be used for the same purpose?

Shin


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## Dahc

You mean the forage, drought resistant qualities or all of the uses listed?


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## Shinsan

Dahc, If Tagasaste isn't grown there, I'm interested in finding any plants that could be grown as a hedge, to a height of 5 or 6 feet, and be an attractive food for browsers such as goats and alpacas. If that plant also happens to be drought tolerant it would be a bonus, but not absolutely necessary.
Shin


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## blue gecko

couldn't find an audio pronunciation but you might find this interesting:

http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/agriculture/forums/sustainable-agriculture2/msg00062.html


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## Dahc

It's considered an invasive species by a lot of sources if it is put in a non-desert environment. I would bet there is some in the U.S. but finding it may be a chore and planting it may be asking for trouble.

Mimosa is a good forage plant and fast grower and is also an invasive species. It gets much higher than 6' but is still a good shade tree. Since there were some already on the property we have now, I use it for goat food. Unfortunately, I have to cut it myself because the trees get to high for livestock to reach the foliage. I think it is also illegal to plant it here. Once established, it will survive in dry spells.

It's hard to control mimosa if you aren't diligent and hard working.


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## Shinsan

Good link, Blue Gecko. Thank you.
The information there shows how versatile the plant it is.
Dahc, if temperatures across the U.S. continue to rise as they are doing at present, there might soon be enough desert environment to grow it as it is being grown here in Australia. For quite some time it was considered to be a pest here, but due to the forward thinking of some pastoralists, and quite a bit of (ongoing) study of its benefits, it is now being planted more and more.
BTW, how many goats do you have, and how do you fence them in?
Shin


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## Dahc

We only have two at the moment. Nothing to base herd information on, although the cattle farmers here also use mimosa as food because it is so plentiful and fairly nutritious. We haven't decided if we are building a herd or not. lol. We have them in a 70'x100' pen made of 4' field fencing. The cost of this fencing is the main reason we don't have more but it's necessary due to predators in the area. I can't really start any bushes or trees there because the goats will eat them before they are established, so I guess I will continue to cut mimosa for them until I can find a more suitable alternative.

The tagasaste really sounds like a great alternative to what we have now but I have one too many invasive species here already and am really unsure whether I should plant such a thing. I'm sure I could find seeds for it if I wanted to but this isn't a desert-like area... just yet... lol.


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## Shinsan

Dahc, The reason I've been asking about tagasaste or a similar plant is because I've found a real neat fencing method that is ideal for alpacas, dexter cattle and goats, and I'd like to pass the information on. There wouldn't be much point though, if there wasn't a suitable plant, such as tagasaste, to build it with.

As you have a couple of goats and a goodly sized pen, you might be interested in the method we are going to use. (Can I presume that field fencing is a type of mesh?)

Basically, we are building two parallel fences, 4'6" high and 2' apart. Each fence supports a mesh of heavy duty chiken wire, hung from the top wire. Because the chiken wire is 4' high, there is a 6" clearance between its lower edge and the ground. (This is to prevent the mesh from rusting, as it would if in contact with the ground.)

Between the two fences, tagasate is planted, close enough together to form a dense hedge. As the plant grows, and protudes through the mesh, it is grazed by the critters. Alpacas can also graze the tops between the two fences, which encourages a denser growth. When the plant is growing a bit above the top of the fence, it is trimmed flat, and a 2' wide strip of mesh is wired across the top, effectively boxing it in. Thereafter you can leave it to the animals to keep your hedge/fence looking like those of a well manicured English estate. (....with alpacas?)

This type of fence does not encourage animals to force their way through, and also forms a good wind-break, with some shade. Mind you, it wouldn't be easy to move it in a hurry, so you'd have to plan carefully where you want to build one.

Shin


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## Dahc

Shinsan, that actually sounds like a very interesting idea! I was assured that my two goats would do very well in this amount of space and they have not. I have no protection for the plants inside of it and even if I did, they do not grow fast enough to provide continual sources of food at the rate my goats eat them.

Is this something you have begin or are you still in a planning stage? If you have started construction, I bet there are a lot of people on this forum (including me) that would like to see some photos of something like that.

It appears that Australia has a comparable climate to the U.S. and I'm sure some Aussie have smuggled some seeds in. lol. I have to search more and see if any of the dryer areas have these plants already growing.


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## Shinsan

Hungry blighters those goats, aren't they?
I first saw that tagasate fence/hedge idea in the Autumn 1999 issue of Town & Country Farmer Magazine, and the fence written about had actually been installed three years earlier.

To quote the article: "The result has been the the development of an alpaca-manicured 'box-hedge' which is a diet supplement, perfect protector from wind and sun, as well as a great double-fenced divider, which offers a safety zone for anyone with fear of neighbouring roaming dogs."

And, "Following the success of the original 'pilot scheme', progressive plantings have been undertaken and we now have edible box hedges bordering many of our paddocks.
Stud males can be separated by this nutritious barrier, weanlings are secure, and all enjoy the flavour as they neatly prune leaves as they protude through the wire.
Tagasaste grows easily in many soil types and climates, and can be germinated from seed or started as seedlings. Growth is rapid, and Autumn plantings will mean that 18 months later an effective hedge will be forming.

During the coming year livestock producers in WA are expected to plant more than 30,000 hectares, (75,000 acres), of tagasaste. Farmers in the Eastern states are also followingthis revolution as an aid in improving landcare."

As for my own project, the last of the recent floodwaters has drained off, but the land is still pretty boggy - the tractor sank up to its axles in the mud/clay two days ago - so it will be a few more weeks before I can do any real construction work.
Also have to rebuild the vegetable garden beds that were virtually washed away, (20 beds each measuring 5' X 12'), plus re-mesh the chicken yard.

Shin


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## Shinsan

Dahc,
I've just come down from the goat forum where 'Chamoisee' posted that if you search under _chamaecytisus palmensis_ you will get pages of information, including seeds for sale. If you _could_ get some seed, it might be worth experimenting with.
Shin


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## Dahc

Shinsan said:


> Dahc,
> I've just come down from the goat forum where 'Chamoisee' posted that if you search under _chamaecytisus palmensis_ you will get pages of information, including seeds for sale. If you _could_ get some seed, it might be worth experimenting with.
> Shin


I have actually been seriously considering it. Once I get to the point of figuring up fencing costs, I will pretty much be set on it.

I'm still fighting with myself over wood or metal posts. Steel metal T posts are $4 each while wooden landscape timbers are $3 each but aren't permanent. I wouldn't have to buy two sets of posts because one fence line already exists but it's hard to work extras into the budget. I would have to do a feed cost projection for a year or so to see what kind of savings I could use to justify the new posts.

I need to search out more information on the plant to come up with some number approximations.


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## GrannyCarol

You might want to look into Siberian Pea Shrub for this purpose. I didn't find a lot about it as livestock fodder, but it is edible for people (the seeds are used much like lentils) and supposed to be a good poultry food. It grows in a dense hedge easily and can get about 12' tall. It is very tough, handling cold, drought, wind and salt. It can seed in somewhat invasively - if the livestock will eat it, that would keep it from spreading too much. It is a legume and a nitrogen fixer for soil quality. Birds like it. 

That is a very interesting fencing idea. I had land I think I'd be trying it. What a great way to keep goats happy with forage!


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## Dahc

I found a photo of the rows Shinsan is talking about. It's not done as fencing as with his idea but the scale in which it is done here for sheep seems as though the planters have placed a great deal of trust in it's forage quality. The photo is of a site in Australia.










There are more photos of the plant here .


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## Shinsan

Dahc, Thanks for the link that came with that photo you posted - the info that accompanied it shows just how beneficial the plant is. And yes, farmers aren't going to collectively plant out 75,000 acres of a plant that they can't trust to give a good return.

About the fencing: You could start by planting out the tagasate on the outside of the fence where your goats are, and leave the confining fence until later, (unless you have animals on both sides of the fence). The goats trim the inside - you trim the outside, and throw the trimmings into the pen. If you don't have browsing animals on the other side, you'd have to trim the hedge yourself anyway, if you wanted it to look neat.


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## Dahc

GrannyCarol said:


> You might want to look into Siberian Pea Shrub for this purpose. I didn't find a lot about it as livestock fodder, but it is edible for people (the seeds are used much like lentils) and supposed to be a good poultry food. It grows in a dense hedge easily and can get about 12' tall. It is very tough, handling cold, drought, wind and salt. It can seed in somewhat invasively - if the livestock will eat it, that would keep it from spreading too much. It is a legume and a nitrogen fixer for soil quality. Birds like it.
> 
> That is a very interesting fencing idea. I had land I think I'd be trying it. What a great way to keep goats happy with forage!


It's an interesting bush GrannyCarol but it isn't reported to be a good grower my zone. It's grows well from zone 2b to zone 7b and I am in 8b. It's possible the milder winters and hotter summers would kill it. The botanical name for it is _Caragana arborescens_. It's invasive in the northern most states and is actually on Alaska's invasive species list.


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## Dahc

Shinsan said:


> Dahc, Thanks for the link that came with that photo you posted - the info that accompanied it shows just how beneficial the plant is. And yes, farmers aren't going to collectively plant out 75,000 acres of a plant that they can't trust to give a good return.
> 
> About the fencing: You could start by planting out the tagasate on the outside of the fence where your goats are, and leave the confining fence until later, (unless you have animals on both sides of the fence). The goats trim the inside - you trim the outside, and throw the trimmings into the pen. If you don't have browsing animals on the other side, you'd have to trim the hedge yourself anyway, if you wanted it to look neat.


I was thinking of maybe getting a few seeds and growing 4 of them in deep pots. Once they were somewhat established, then planting them inside the pen in cylinder cages for protection. I could make it to where I could get the cage off so I could cut it back to make it leggy. I would really have to see exactly "how" invasive the bush really was before I felt comfortable planting more than that. I have worked a long, long time to cut down the number of mimosa here and I am still working at it. I would hate to unleash another bundle of work on myself and possibly all of my neighbors as well.


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## GrannyCarol

I do think the Tagasaste would only be marginally hardy here, it said down to -15 and we usually don't go lower than that, but it would need protection in one of our cold winters, where it gets to -30 for periods (and little snow cover, its semi desert). 

One good thing about this thread is that I think I'm going to look for the Siberian Pea Shrub, which is widely used for windbreaks on farms around here and put a couple of them in the duck yards for shade and fodder for the ducks. I may have to beat them back pretty hard to keep them under the 6' netting on the top of the pens though.  Still, its already over 100 degrees every day now and the poor dears get heat stressed. Most of them are out in our big yard during the hot part of the day, where it is grassy and shady and they have a pool, but we use that yard to exercise the dogs too... so they can't be out there all the time! 

Nothing I like better than a good excuse to plant more bushes and trees! hehe


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## Shinsan

Dahc,

Thanks to 14Yearpcmaker's help, I finally posted a couple of pics of the Tagasaste Hedge. Check out "-Chain link??" in Homesteading Questions.

Shin


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