# ok who knew selling our turkey mount privately was illegal?!



## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

Did you all know that!!! Another freedom stolen!


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Been that way for quite a while.
Illegal to sell just about any part of game animals.


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

We had no idea! Why is it illegal?? We bought the permit, took it legally, paid to have it mounted...why should it be illegal to sell it?


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## HillRunner (Jun 28, 2010)

Just another P.I.T.A law along with the other hundreds.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Who told you it was? There are several on ebay right now.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

It is a state law in most states. Different states=different laws.


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## braggscowboy (Jan 6, 2004)

Can't sell any deer or deer parts in Okla. Or, I should have said, I think a taxidermist can now. But if you buy it, you can't sell it. Sounds like a double standard. What would be the differnce of the OP doing everything right and can't sell. He has his money invested and has it mounted and has to keep or throw away, but if he did not pick it up at the taxidermist, then he can sell his turkey, but he can't sell his own that he has hunted. Go figure???


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

Been the law in OK for a long time. Recently however, they did make a subtle change. You may now sell carcasses from legally taken furbearers in OK.


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

Yeah, my husband tried to sell his turkey mount, but it was a sting. Here in OK its illegal but we had no idea!! So the game warden read him his rights, explained why he was being ticked, took the turkey and left us a $300have ticket!!!!! And that's the lowest fine, they said he could have been charged with a felony and gotten jail time BC we put it on CL!!! We will be talking to district attorney on off chance he can get it dropped


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

I'm livid!! I called a person who had a deer head listed on Cl also, and they looked it up, called the buyer that was going to meet them and by it, and he told buyer, I'm not going to sell it, I think that's illegal, and get this, the guy laughed!! We think he was getting set up too!!! The wife called me back and thanked me over and over, I felt good to have helped prevent another pointless ticket...


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## Maddiequus (Nov 4, 2003)

So not only are you NOT allowed to sell something YOU did, they take it from you and charge you more than it cost you in the first place if you try????? Ridiculous.


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## TnTnTn (Dec 23, 2004)

Selling wildlife or parts of wildlife is illegal because it encourages poachers to kill and sell wildlife. Placing a value on something insures that it will be utilized for gain. That is the reason elephant ivory trade is banned-an effort to make the elephant less of a target for poachers. TTT


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## HillRunner (Jun 28, 2010)

But if it was legally taken and payed to be preserved and mounted and the official tag is with it. It should be aloud to switch hands.


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## braggscowboy (Jan 6, 2004)

HillRunner said:


> But if it was legally taken and payed to be preserved and mounted and the official tag is with it. It should be aloud to switch hands.


Makes sense to me. If you can document that it is legal in every way, even if signed off by wildlife offical, then I should be able to do what I want with it! Right? I am in antique malls and flea markets often and I seel horns, heads, feet and parts all the time, saw two canes today with deer foot handle. I know there needs to be some type of law for everything, but one can go overboard sometimes. I saw someone on ebay once from oklahoma selling horns that were not sheds, have not seen here since. The law in Okla was initiated because as a GW told me, business people in OKC would put in orders for what they wanted in SE Okla and then have it mounted after purchasing it. I guess it got to be a big racket.


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

Yeah, we proved it was legally taken etc, they didn't care, we had taxidermy receipt etc, it doesn't matter ;(( I've been in tears all day about it!


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

A law that would fix this mix up is for any taxidermist who does a mount to post a tag that states its illegal to resell....that at least would let everyone be informed


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

Yea. It's one of those laws that is rooted in good sense but in practice it doesn't work. There is a HUGE market in the larger cities for mounts. Mainly Doctor/Lawyer offices. Some poachers around here used to poach/sell year round in Dallas until a couple of them got caught in a sting operation. Wildlife violations across state lines makes it Federal (Lacy Act) and the penalties are MUCH steeper. The result is that now those poached animals go to Tulsa/OKC area...... Just like dope/booze, the culprits are still out there and occasionally get caught (two fellows in my county got caught this fall and confessed to over 50 illegal kills THIS year). The law is written for those idiots but it seems like it winds up catching unknowing folks on CL more than the real problem poachers who DO NOT advertise on CL. Just another example of LE going after "low hanging fruit" to keep their numbers up. It's cold and rainy outside....much easier to spend an hour or three in your warm living room making tickets on the computer to keep your arrest numbers up so the boss sees you've been working. With luck, the DA will drop it and charge court costs only.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

I for got she was in the wonderful state of Oklahoma. Some of our laws flat suck.


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

Yeah, we are praying, we needed the $$money and now we are out even more $$


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## gunseller (Feb 20, 2010)

Am I right that you can give it away but not sell the mount? If that is right you sell the form that the skin and feathers are on and give the skin and feathers away. Other and better wats to stop poaching than what has been done. One way is a mount has to have the tag of who shot it on the mount. Fine of 4 or 5K if not.
Steve


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

I don't get this here in Missouri its Legal to sell Turkey Wings and Antlers but not Box Turtle Shells.

Far as Mounts I know several that have been Sold for not even close to what it cost to have them mounted.

big rockpile


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I have seen mounts sold at auctions.
They usually sell some cheap item with it and give the mount to the buyer.


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

Hmmm it makes me sick to my stomach, they said my husband would be added to the internet crimes list...


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

If you did not sell the mount and receive money how did a selling transaction occur? I believe a judge will let you off with at most the cost of court.


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

mamaof3peas said:


> Hmmm it makes me sick to my stomach, they said my husband would be added to the internet crimes list...


Old LEO trick to get you to pay the fine without challenging it.... something to the effect of, if you take care of this before it goes to court nothing will go on your record but if it makes it into the courtroom there isn't anything I can do to keep it off your record.... oh, let's see.... how about if you don't write me the ticket in the first place buddy. Bet it doesn't go on my record then.


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## HillRunner (Jun 28, 2010)

agmantoo said:


> If you did not sell the mount and receive money how did a selling transaction occur? I believe a judge will let you off with at most the cost of court.


I guess the same way they can get you for prostitution and drugs. Woman ask you "hey you need a date? " price is set and she gives the signal and the blue lights roll.


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## Maddiequus (Nov 4, 2003)

pancho said:


> I have seen mounts sold at auctions.
> They usually sell some cheap item with it and give the mount to the buyer.


Is that the loophole then? Accept x amount of dollars for your shovel or something and throw in the mount for free?


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

Yeah I guess


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

We are def going to the DA


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

hubby.......demand a trial by jury.......you've already seen that a number of your possible peers on here, 
are already sympathetic; it stands to reason that if you get 12 jurors in deciding your fate, that at 
least one or two of them (perhaps more) might be likely to lean in the direction of an acquittal. 
And *ONE* is all you really need to make the difference in your favor. 
_* Most*_ DA's realize this as well......which is why they'll try and steer you in front of a judge if they can.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

TnTnTn said:


> Selling wildlife or parts of wildlife is illegal because it encourages poachers to kill and sell wildlife. Placing a value on something insures that it will be utilized for gain. That is the reason elephant ivory trade is banned-an effort to make the elephant less of a target for poachers. TTT


yup should close down those fur houses! 

Not.

You can legally sell fur. among other things.



agmantoo said:


> If you did not sell the mount and receive money how did a selling transaction occur? I believe a judge will let you off with at most the cost of court.


isn't it up to a Jury of your peers?

I would see any animal rights types where excused and anyone that was not a sportsman!

My take is if its lawfully taken, and lawfully preserved its lawful to posses and or sell.
If a taxidermist can sell it, so can you! just have ll your paper work together, tag and reciept for mounting!

Its a BS interpretation on the Law and if they are allowed to get away with it will set precedence. Unfortunately they know many folks don't have the money or courage or just blindly believe what they say is the actual matter of facts to challenge.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Maddiequus said:


> Is that the loophole then? Accept x amount of dollars for your shovel or something and throw in the mount for free?


The auctions I have seen will explain how it is illegal to sell the item but they can sell another item and give it to the winning bidder.
LEOs and game wardens were at the auctions.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

mamaof3peas said:


> Yeah, we are praying, we needed the $$money and now we are out even more $$


Tell the judge "We didn't want to sell it, but we are in need of money so bad that thought it would be the best thing to sell that we own, plus, we just moved here to Oklahoma and had no ideal that selling it would be a crime". "Had we known, we wouldn't have tried to sell it". 

You might also call Tim Baker, lawyer, in Tahlequah and see if he has any advice to give you. If you are in good standing with the law, no major criminal past, then you might call the local Sheriff and see if he can help you out also. Explain to him what I mentioned above and maybe he/she can help you out.


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

Take the mount back to the taxidermist and get your money back and then have him sell it to the new guy for the same amount.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

mamaof3peas said:


> Did you all know that!!! Another freedom stolen!


Yes, I knew... 
I don't consider it a freedom stolen. We have a horrible history of game animal exploitation in this country, and we (as a people) enacted laws to protect game animals from future exploitation. 

Unfortunately, ya'll were obviously ignorant of the laws... and, ignorance of laws is rarely if ever found to be a valid excuse. Would be nice if it were just a 'fine'... but trafficking in protected animals is big business and fines/penalties ARE hefty. Even trading in feathers or other parts of certain animals will get you in troublinski....

One of my cousins (also ignorant of the law) stopped and picked up a roadkilled timber rattler... I'd seen it half an hour before, when I drove by...) As he put it in the truck, the Game Warden drove by, and saw him. He gave him a $250 ticket for being in possession of a protected species. It was dead, very obviously dead, and would be buzzard chow by the end of the day, and the cuz was going to make a belt and hatband out of it. The GW took it, left him the ticket, along with an expensive lesson.

It would be nice, if folks were given all the rules and regulations of life, in high school, alas, it's not going to happen. Sometimes folks are 'punished' as a reminder to others... No doubt, ya'll have told every single person ya'll know what happened to you. As far as LE is concerned, mission accomplished... an entire region of the country now knows a whole lot more about game laws than they did before.

Good luck, though... hopefully it wasn't a felony, that'll affect your gun owning rights...


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

Wow, how can you believe that law protects animals!! We followed our laws, obtained permit, hunted that bird together, had it mounted with our money, and decided we needed food worse, so that's a crime?? Geesh, thanks for encouragement...haven't told anyone but here, still don't know many here and not close enough to tell this! We have never, ever broken hunting laws!! Ever! I am saddened that I've met a Texan with no mercy today ;( 

Yucca, they took turkey to hang in their office.


Oldcountryboy, will call attorney baker, thanks!


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I hate it you have the problem.

My cousin used to kill and sell bucks to city hunters during deer season. One year he sold over 100 bucks. Unlike you he was never caught and he knew it was against the law.

Sorry for what happened to you.


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## SteveD(TX) (May 14, 2002)

mamaof3peas said:


> Wow, how can you believe that law protects animals!! We followed our laws, obtained permit, hunted that bird together, had it mounted with our money, and decided we needed food worse, so that's a crime?? Geesh, thanks for encouragement...haven't told anyone but here, still don't know many here and not close enough to tell this! We have never, ever broken hunting laws!! Ever! I am saddened that I've met a Texan with no mercy today ;(
> 
> Yucca, they took turkey to hang in their office.
> 
> ...



I don't think it's a matter of having no mercy. It's a matter of laws that are made to protect animals, and once in a while, someone acting completely innocently gets caught and that's unfortunate. But I have to agree with Texican on this one. Good luck and maybe you'll get a break.


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## Maddiequus (Nov 4, 2003)

I think this is outrageous. It's an example of a law being twisted to hurt law-abiding citizens. Meanwhile we have poachers here who shoot either from the road or right next to it, take the head and leave the rest of the deer behind, and I saw a guy stop next to a dead buck on the highway checking out the rack. Where's the sheriff then? Not that I'm condoning breaking the law, but there's a lot of pelts, skins, etc. rotting on the asphalt that could be turned into something valuable and keep some people's family alive with the money. Doesn't seem right.


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

Thanks for any support  I get that its illegal, but I guess I believe the law flawed...I still don't see how it would hurt an animal sell our mount?


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## SteveD(TX) (May 14, 2002)

mamaof3peas said:


> Thanks for any support  I get that its illegal, but I guess I believe the law flawed...I still don't see how it would hurt an animal sell our mount?


Asked and answered. Read post #12.


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

Okbut it costs $600 to get a turkey mounted!! You can't even get what you paid out of it?? How do poachers make money?? Or even legal hunters?? Is there some secret market that pays $1000 for a mount??


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

mamaof3peas said:


> Okbut it costs $600 to get a turkey mounted!! You can't even get what you paid out of it?? How do poachers make money?? Or even legal hunters?? Is there some secret market that pays $1000 for a mount??


Yea I was thinking the same I know a Guy that just sold hundreds of Mounts.One Hog I know he paid $350 just to have it mounted,he sold it for $75.

big rockpile


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## copperhead46 (Jan 25, 2008)

Since it's a "game" law, I don't know if you can, but, you do need to ask for a jury trial, and that you need a public defender You had no "intent" to break the law, and I think you can win this thing, but, hopefull, the DA will be willing to drop it, no harm was done


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## elliemaeg (May 1, 2005)

Prayer does work, Momof3peas.


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

Thanks! We need prayers!


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

So called DA office and clerk read me the ticket, she thought he was in trouble for selling an illegal mount or meat?? I said no, legally taken and processed mount, she said....get this....I can't interpret the law but I can't see how he broke a law, but I'm not an attorney, so I can't interpret this law, you need to talk to him...

So if she can't understand law, how can we be held liable??


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## SteveD(TX) (May 14, 2002)

mamaof3peas said:


> So called DA office and clerk read me the ticket, she thought he was in trouble for selling an illegal mount or meat?? I said no, legally taken and processed mount, she said....get this....I can't interpret the law but I can't see how he broke a law, but I'm not an attorney, so I can't interpret this law, you need to talk to him...
> 
> So if she can't understand law, how can we be held liable??


That would be up to a judge or the DA, not a clerk.


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## snake35 (Jan 24, 2011)

Just another silly law that justifies more government workers!


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

Great news!!! Met with DA who reviewed ticket and law, they were shocked!! They said the law isn't clear and so they found a judge and the charges were dropped, $300 ticket gone, and they both said, what a waste of state money and time!! I said amen!!


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## wingnut64 (Jan 12, 2012)

mamaof3peas said:


> Great news!!! Met with DA who reviewed ticket and law, they were shocked!! They said the law isn't clear and so they found a judge and the charges were dropped, $300 ticket gone, and they both said, what a waste of state money and time!! I said amen!!



WooHoo!!


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## HMAN (Sep 15, 2008)

So when are they bringing your turkey back ?



mamaof3peas said:


> Great news!!! Met with DA who reviewed ticket and law, they were shocked!! They said the law isn't clear and so they found a judge and the charges were dropped, $300 ticket gone, and they both said, what a waste of state money and time!! I said amen!!


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

Congrats. Nice to see some "intent" applied to a law that was bent beyond its original purpose.


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

Well, the reason it was easily dropped was BC we didn't want the turkey back...we have some bad feelings about that bird...it caused pain and turmoil between his dad, and now this, its kinda like good riddance, they can keep it. We really just wanted the ticket off his record and didn't have $300 to pay. So its a victory in our book.


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## Chief Cook (Apr 24, 2011)

Glad it worked out for you! Now I am going to look up this very subject at the NMGF department. I keep thinking I should be able to find that information in the Hunting Proclomation. I didn't see it there, not that it isn't. Anyway, was glad to see the good news.


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## Chief Cook (Apr 24, 2011)

Just found out we have some of the nicest Conservation Officers. I called the SE office and just asked. He told me that in NM it is alright to sell a big game mount if it is already mounted. You cannot sell any that are "green". After they are mounted they are considered "Art Work". Mama of 3 peas, thanks so much for getting this out there, it made me look into it. I never did find it in the Hunting Proclamation. Once again, Thank You.


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

You are very welcome! I just wanted to save others some money and hassle ;(( :kung


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