# Scours in adult goats



## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

I have 4 nigerians, one buck and three does. one doe is 2 years old, one is 3, the other 4. The 2 and 3 year old both had kids 2 months ago, 3 year olds was pulled for bottlefeeding at 3 days. the youngest had a perfect doe kid but she never cleaned it out of the sack and I found it dead, fluid filled lungs. She developed dark pudding scours about 4 weeks ago. She had been acting totally normal otherwise. eating, drinking, temp 101.8 I do not feed anything other then alfalfa/grass hay and nothing had changed. I assumed parasites, since eyes were a medium to pale pink. Gave her quest, copper bolused, and bose injection (I actually couldnt catch her to give it before kidding, she is WILD). She continues to have scours, and she is looking rough, but still, acts normal. I gave her ivermectin plus in case it was flukes. She got probiotics today.
Today I noticed my 3 year old hiding in the shed. She wont eat. I gave her a few pellets of grain feed and she did take them, but then wouldnt a few hours later. gave her probios. She has pudding scours now too but didnt this am. She has nice pinkish red eye membranes. Her temp 101.5. I had dewormed her with quest a month ago. Today I gave her some albon, and plan to give kaolin in an hour or so after albons digested. All goats up to date of cdt and were copper bolused about a week ago. They got a handfull of multigrain cheerios last night as a treat, have had before, but not everyday.
I can drop off a fecal sample on monday. Untill then is there anything that stands out that I could be doing? The one not eating is alarming. I havent any idea what to do. Should I go to the store and get cd&t antitoxin for the one not eating? I have some lightly expired fortified b complex. Would that help?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It would help if you would add how much of each dewormer you administered. If you went by the label, it's not enough.

Do they have access to baking soda?


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

I gave 1/2 cc each of quest. I cant rember the dose on the Iver plus but it was what dairygoatinfo had listed. I have actually never used plus before so cant remeber what the dose said.  I have baking soda and minerals out but they never touch either. I leave it out in case but they literally never take any. Should I drench her with baking soda?
I am thinking maybe acidosis, from the cheerios?

Oh and looking back at my calander of when i dewormed the younger one has been scouring 2 weeks not 4.


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## mpete (Mar 4, 2008)

With the 3 year old: I would think off-hand that you need to give them CMPK pretty soon... This is the link given in another thread...
http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=22.0
Definitely give her lots of B. If you can, get some both orally and injected... The rumen is what keeps the goat warm... the probiotics definitley will help. Run a fecal, but I am guessing that you may have something else going on... 
The ploppy poops itself isn't too much to worry about... 
With the other and the 3 year old this is still possible: Have you considered cocci? Make sure you specifically tell them to look for it in the fecal because they will not always tell you if they see them. You can give goats pepto if it gets real bad.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Why the cmpk? I have it, but she has been dry for 2 months.

I gave her albon today in case. I got it for the younger one with ongoing problems but panicked. I work at a small animal vet but wont be there untill monday. The fecals are sent out to a lab and they check for cocci as well. they will even pick up giardia cysts. I really dont thinks its parasites but I guess I wont know untill then.

I will be off to the store to get fresh baking soda and pepto. What about milk of magesia? I read thats treatment for acidosis.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Daisy the one not eating is grinding her teeth now if that helps id problem.


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## mpete (Mar 4, 2008)

I didn't realize she was dry... then I wouldn't worry about the CMPK. 

This is copied off of http://www.jackmauldin.com/health/acidosis.htm


Clinical Picture:

Simple indigestion may be the first indication of a feeding problem. The goat backs off her feed, usually only for one feeding. If longer than 24 hrs then something else is wrong. Chronic feeding problems will manifest as variable appetite, depressed milk fat and chronic laminitis. Acute laminitis shows up as painful feet. What is more common is the chronic form in which the toes grow abnormally fast with "rings". The quality of the horn is poor and flaky. Goats may be lame and prone to foot abscesses. Milk
fat is depressed because fibre is necessary for the rumen flora to produce the correct volatile fatty acid to make milk fat (acetate). With more severe lactic acidosis, the protozoa die, the rumen becomes static and the goat becomes depressed and dehydrated. The rumen is fluid filled and "sloshy". Diarrhea smells acidic and is yellow in colour. In very severe cases, there is no diarrhea because of total gut stasis. The
goat may appear "drunk" and ataxic. She will go down and will look very similar to milk fever, i.e. cold with dilated pupils. Rumen examination (pH and examination of flora) need to be done to confirm a diagnosis.


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## mpete (Mar 4, 2008)

The b will help her with her appetite


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## mpete (Mar 4, 2008)

The CD&T antitoxin is not the same as C&D antitoxin...


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Huh,

Well I dont know then! I was out trying to give her the fortified b. I was successfull at giving her about 2 cc, the rest sprayed all over the shed as she fought me more then I expected. She is depressed when not being forced to do something but she can sure argue with me still. I have her kaolin pectin and she loved it. I am used to giving it to dogs that froth and fight. She swallowed it down. I gave 30 cc.


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## mpete (Mar 4, 2008)

Grasping at straws, but here's another thing that can cause diarrhea:

Entero symptoms:
The Subacute disease is more apt to occur in older kids and adults. They may be ill for several days or weeks and show anorexia (refusal to eat) and intermittent severe diarrhea occasionally with epithelialshreds in the feces. They will occasionally eat and with time and appropriate treatment, they will usually recover.
Subacute or chronic cases could resemble coccidiosis, salmonellosis, rumen impaction. Fecal examination, culture and smears would aid in diagnosis of the first two and abdominal palpation, the latter.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

was out there and temp is 100.1. not herself but alert and standing. Fighting me tooth and nail. Got more fortified b into her. Gave her banamine for the teeth grinding. She jumped and got about 1/2 cc I.M. instead of sub q. Hope that is ok.
Still not eating. She is nosing through the hay and pushing it around but not mouthing it.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I don't use Quest but I still don't think 1/2 cc is enough for an adult goat. Hoe much about do your goats weigh?

Also for entero I believe you give the C & D Antitoxin. The CD & T Toxoid is what you give for their vaccine which is different than the one used for Entero. If you have the Antitoxin it won't hurt to give it to them. The dose is 20 cc SQ but Antitoxin not the Toxoid.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=1vj6rtuk688lvdj5d8fjb5ass1&topic=8934.0

Here is a link to different worms, the wormers to use & the dosages you should use.
It could be a heavy worm load if they didn't get enough of the right wormer.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

40 and 50is pounds


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Just got the c& d antitoxin. Should some be orally given?

eta: she was still not interested in hay or alfalfa pellets. gave her the antitoxin sub q. It apparantly stings. I drenched her with baking soda. Guess I can just wait untill am and see how she is doing. She wasnt cold or shivering, for the first time the goats were cuddling together keeping each other warm. They dont usually lay by each other.


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## Ranger (Aug 6, 2010)

Do you have, or can you get, activated charcole? For that size you would need to give about 30cc's twice a day until her poop firms up. You can get it at TS. It comes in a big tube, and it's easier to put it into a big syringe or drenching gun to give it. Be prepared to be very black!! They always seem to get almost on you as they swallow. It will absorb toxins in the system, and help to flush them out.


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## JBarGFarmKeeper (Nov 1, 2011)

My guess is Cocci!! It can and does affect adults. I found a product this past year that I will NEVER be without again!

http://www.horseprerace.com/toltrazuril-200ml-p-29.html

Google it. Read about it. I have used it in kids and adults. 3 cc orally once in kids and 5 cc orally in adults will save a goat. It is a cocciocide that kills all stages of cocci. It is amazing. The literature says it is never too late. They like the taste it may seem expensive but compared to the repeated doses required with other products and their side-effects, I think it is worth every penny!


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## JBarGFarmKeeper (Nov 1, 2011)

Another thing that I have used for scours in adult goats that will NOT hurt them is Oral Neomycin. I give 5cc on day one and 3cc on days 2-5. Just recently I have mixed it with 15cc of pepto-bismol to help coat the stomach. They don't really care for the taste of either but they improve...quickly!


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

lasergrl said:


> Just got the c& d antitoxin. Should some be orally given?
> 
> eta: she was still not interested in hay or alfalfa pellets. gave her the antitoxin sub q. It apparantly stings. I drenched her with baking soda. Guess I can just wait untill am and see how she is doing. She wasnt cold or shivering, for the first time the goats were cuddling together keeping each other warm. They dont usually lay by each other.



Last time I had to give the antitoxin to a couple of my girls that got into a bush they shouldn't have(it is now gone) they never even jumped when I gave them the shot. Guess they just felt that bad they didn't notice.

I hope someone that uses Quest gives the correct dosage for goats at the weight of yours. I don't use Quest so I can help there but 1/2 cc I bet is still way too little.
I usually use Cydectin & Ivermectin.

I know when using Ivermectin horse paste you give the goat 3 Times the dose for a horse of the same weight. So if the goat is 100 pounds you would give them the same amount that you'd give a 300 pound horse. Wonder if the Quest is the same.

I hope they pull through.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I just read the wormer link that I posted to find the info on Quest & I guess your right on the dosage. It says it's 4 times stronger than Cydectin. 

Can you have a fecal done to find out if you used the appropiate wromer for what ever parasite they may have? Maybe they need a different wormer.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Well Daisy the 3 year old not eating one is back to normal today. there was a bunch of dog poop type piles in the shed but havent seen her go yet today. She is acting normal and eating like a cow now. I gave her some CD antitoxin orally just as an in case since I only injected it yesterday.
Now I can focus on the younger un named doe that has the chronic something going on. I am trying to get a fecal on her today. I will probably do a group sample along with her sample just to get an idea. I started her on 1000 mg albon today and gave her some oral antitoxin and b vitamins. This doe does have paler membranes. Daisys membranes have been a very nice red pink all along.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

The in-house fecal I did showed 3 coccidia cysts and 7 barberpole eggs. The parasites I was expecting to see. Just not sure the significance of the numbers. Doesn't seem high. The lab might see different.

also should mention, they probably got more like 0.7 cc of quest as I always overload on case of spit out. I used to give cydectin pour on orally but I ran out a couple months ago.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

You sure they're only 40 and 50lbs? That seems REALLY small for does that are big enough to be kidding out. Even nigies. Can you, or can you get someone to stand on bath scale and measure them? 

HC (barberpole) is not something to mess around with. Reworm now, then worm again 10-14 days later. This also shoudl be done on the day they kid. 

What are their temps? 

I'd also treat for enterotoxemia, cheap and can't hurt 'em. 

Probiotics are suggested.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

The older one may be bigger then 50, but certainly not more then 70 so dose should have been ok. The smaller one is 40 ish pounds, I can pick her up no problem and she is about the same or less then the alfalfa pellet bag. She should be more but has lost weight and doesnt carry much in her rumen like the others. They always have barberpole eggs for the last 3 years Ive had them in fecals. there is no eliminating them here. Its been a struggle. I never had much problem with the goats, nice good immune systems. The sheep on the other hand. 
When i give ivermectin I overdose by alot because i know it is safe. I hesitate to do that with moxidectin. I give 1 cc each goat usually but this last go around I was afraid to do that to a goat already sick.
I do have levimasole I got from the U.K. that i got as a wormer of last resort. I gave some to the scouring one with no improvement. Think that was about a week ago. I mark all these things on my calander but need a better system to remember 
I doubt that was daisys problem since she is doing 100% better today. If it would be prudent to give everyone more wormer I will. 7 eggs on the slide is alot then?
I guess if this little doe has poor immunity to it, and the dewormers arent working anymore for it, not sure what else to do. Give a huge dose of quest, more levimasole, or maybe both? I had her for a year prior to this and she has always had good resistence untill now. Of course she never kidded either.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I believe it's Levamisole is the one that has a VERY narrow range of safety. I THINK moxidectin is fairly safe, it's in the same class as Ivermectin (Avermectins). 

No, 7 eggs/slide doesn't seem like a TON but with your symtoms it's all we've got to suggest. 

Did you treat both with CD antitoxin or just the one that's better? 

I also really suggest probiotics. Do they have baking soda available?


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

yes on the soda but they never touch it, sick one thats better was drenched with it. They got probios, alot! They love it. I gave the sick one injected antitoxin yesterday and oral today. Gave the chronic one oral today but will inject tomorrow when I have help. I guess I will deworm with quest and a big dose, maybe one cc, and levamisole. I have corid and sulmet that I can give, Used up all the albon on the sick one.
Thinking back Im wondering if it isnt just worms, because we had a thaw about 10 days ago. It was swampy and wet. I got to 56 degrees one day.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Corid is not a treatment for cocci in severe cases... it can reduce numbers over time, but it is not really a treatment. Sulmet is a treatment but many places/herds find it does not work very well. Sulfadimethoxine is ideal (albon, dimethox). You can get albon boluses for larger size goats - but it still may be economical to use, say, 40% injectible on them because they are so small. 

If you still suspect worms I'd take another fecal in. Maybe try a different office to run it and see what they come out as?


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

I read that fecal myself, and sent one in to the lab also. I will see what the lab says, its alot more accurate!


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## JBarGFarmKeeper (Nov 1, 2011)

mygoat said:


> Corid is not a treatment for cocci in severe cases... it can reduce numbers over time, but it is not really a treatment. Sulmet is a treatment but many places/herds find it does not work very well. Sulfadimethoxine is ideal (albon, dimethox). You can get albon boluses for larger size goats - but it still may be economical to use, say, 40% injectible on them because they are so small.
> 
> If you still suspect worms I'd take another fecal in. Maybe try a different office to run it and see what they come out as?


My vet moved this past summer and I have been searching (in vain) to find another one. This week I took a sample in to have a fecal done at a vet I had heard good things about...

They called with results the same day..."common intestinal parasites"....Uh, I figured that...which ones and how many? "They look so similar...if you want further information, we'll need to send it to an outside lab."

On the second sample (adult Nubian doe with mucusy poop) Veredict...cocci

His suggestion for the parasites....Panacur

Treatment for cocci....corid

Panacur NEVER took out HC (barberpole) in my experience...

Another vet told me that you can't get enough Corid in a goat to kill Cocci without killing the goat. Not to mention, that corid inhibits thiamine uptake and depletes selenium...

Scratch that vet....

:huh:


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

I actually work at a vet so can read my own fecals. I thought it would be a good idea to do my own before sending it out just in case they dont specify the type of "herbivore strongyloides" since thats all they say when they are found in dogs that eat deer poo. 
If they dont at least i know its HC. 
the dog/cat vet there asked me what I saw. She goes, Oh give panacur for that! She looked at me like I was nuts when I said that doesnt work in goats. Then she said they would just reinfect themselves...well, yeah, its kind of the way herbivores work....


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

After you've given the C & D Antitoxin the girls will need a booster of their CD & T vaccine in 2 or 3 weeks when their better.

I think I would give the one that's still feeling bad the Baking soda drench too & also keep up on the Probios paste daily until their eating good & back to normal.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

So the fecal says 1+ eimeria so its likely not that. It says 3+ stronyle eggs so that's the hc eggs I saw. The weird thing is it showed 1+ entamoeba. Not alot of info on that but what I could find says wouldn't cause problem if the goat kind.


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