# Sheesh!!! so many choices...what to do?



## DownHome (Jan 20, 2006)

Okay....there are so many choices...how on earth is a beginner supposed to decide?

*FOUNDATION:* It seems like the black plastic ones would make finding eggs much easier and be more durable than the crimp-wire...Do bees really throw a big fit about the plastic ones?

*BEE ESCAPES * The triangle ones or the ones that fit right in the inner cover hole?

*FEEDERS* Im leaning towards a hive top feeder *DECISION MADE*

*TELESCOPING TOPS* Polystyrene or wood and galvanized metal It seems like the polystyrene tops would be lighter than wood and blow off more easily? *DECISION MADE*

*QUEEN EXCLUDER* Is plastic okay or should I go with metal.

*SIZE* 8 Frame or 10 Frame and why....what difference does it really make?

downhome


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## justgojumpit (May 5, 2003)

DownHome said:


> Okay....there are so many choices...how on earth is a beginner supposed to decide?


Well that's half the fun!



DownHome said:


> *FOUNDATION:* It seems like the black plastic ones would make finding eggs much easier and be more durable than the crimp-wire...Do bees really throw a big fit about the plastic ones?


I like the foundationless frames so the bees can build natural-sized comb. This helps reduce the bees' susceptibility to mites.



DownHome said:


> *BEE ESCAPES * The triangle ones or the ones that fit right in the inner cover hole?


I think that the triangle ones are nicer, but I have never found a need to use any.



DownHome said:


> *FEEDERS* Im leaning towards a hive top feeder


I would say you are leaning in the right direction! There is less risk of robbing with these. I make a migratory cover with a feeder hole cut into it to accept a mason jar, much like the entrance feeders, but at the top of the hive to reduce robbing.



DownHome said:


> *TELESCOPING TOPS* Polystyrene or wood and galvanized metal It seems like the polystyrene tops would be lighter than wood and blow off more easily?


Polystyrene is nice as an insulator, but I would think that the wood and metal would be more durable. This is what I use.



DownHome said:


> *QUEEN EXCLUDER* Is plastic okay or should I go with metal.


Same deal with the durability. I have some of each, but I only use them sparingly, not as a standard rule.



DownHome said:


> *SIZE* 8 Frame or 10 Frame and why....what difference does it really make?


10 frame is cheaper as far as cost per volume of hive, but this all depends on how much weight you want to lift. 8-frame mediums are much lighter than 10-frame deeps when filled with honey.

justgojumpit


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

My take on this subject. You will get 10 or 15 answers from 8 or 10 people here.


*"FOUNDATION: It seems like the black plastic ones would make finding eggs much easier and be more durable than the crimp-wire...Do bees really throw a big fit about the plastic ones?"*

I wouldn't give you 35 cents for two box car loads of the stuff. Yes the bees will work it if that is all they have. But they still don't like it. Last year at bee conferance we were told by a speaker to brush fresh wax on the stuff and the bees would take to it better. If I have to do that I will just use crimp wire and string a couple of horzontal wires.
Some have never used any thing but plastic so really don't know any other way or which is better cause they never tried the other.
I have used wax foundation for years, used wood frames with plastic and didn't like the way the bees excepted it. 
I found the full plastic frames to be really flexable when trying to remove them from a hot summer hive and slippery for the hive tool to pry one out. I have found them to be brittle in the early spring and late fall too. And the bees still didn't like it. Plus if you are a hobby bee keeper and want small cell I don't think they have it in plastic yet.

*"BEE ESCAPES The triangle ones or the ones that fit right in the inner cover hole?"*

I bought some of the trangler ones and have never ever used them or any other type. I really think they may be ok if you are going to use honey robber or some thing like that when pulling honey supers. They are also a lot of extra work as you have to lift the honey super up to install them. I just pull a frame at a time and brush the bees off. I am not lifting the full supers that way, and saving my back. At the honey house I slide full ones down a roller ramp I made on to a pallet I can use the hand truck to move them close to the uncapping tank.

*"FEEDERS Im leaning towards a hive top feeder."*

Yup they are good as long as you are feeding a lot at a time. also you don't have to fill tham up as often. 

We use pickle jars with 1/16 inch holes in the lid gotten free from the local pizza joint for the asking. Place an empty deep around it then the top cover.










We use the quart board man feeders inside our single nucs. and in a small hole on the side of our double nucs.




















*"QUEEN EXCLUDER Is plastic okay or should I go with metal."*

Some one last year asked about useing them and the answer given was if you got stuck in the sand they made a good traction device.
To expand on that, you can use them to keep a Queen in what ever brood chamber you want her. I can not ever remember useing one myself. I have a friend that likes them, He gets a lot of wax from the burr comb they build on them. He uses the wood bound metal ones.

*"TELESCOPING TOPS Polystyrene or wood and galvanized metal It seems like the polystyrene tops would be lighter than wood and blow off more easily?"*

Go with the wood and metel ones. They are stronger and last as long as the hive bodies them selves and maybe longer. The girls will proplis the outer cover to the inter cover at times and it is tuff to get them apart. You can always add a chunk of insulation in the late fall to insulate the top. You don't want insulation in the summer, you want the heat to excape.

*"SIZE 8 Frame or 10 Frame and why....what difference does it really make?"*

Go with the ten frames. saying they are lighter isn't a very good reason as I know lots of bkees that only have 9 frames in a box. 
Think outside the box and move the frames not the whole hive. You wouldn't lift two deeps at once unless they were empty would you. 

A beginner should join a local club. That way they can get 15 answers from 10 people as to what is best. There are always those who change their minds.

You will get the same here too. 
 Al


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

I will agree with Al. Too many new beekeepers scream "I want to go all natural", then buy plastic materials, excluders, Etc. Things you will never find in a natural hive. 

Ten frame equipment is the old standard. Everyone recognizes it as the norm. If you ever try to sell or trade any hives or boxes, you will find a much larger market for 10 frame equip. And when buying, you will find it is much more readily available. As Al said, the frames aren't nailed into the boxes, so you never have to lift a full box. Besides, who uses deeps for honey supers? A deep full of brood is much lighter than the same box full of honey. Deep 10 frame for brood, medium 10 frame for honey, all wood, wax foundation, no excluder is the way to go.

Yes, the top feeder is best for 10 frame hives.


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## DownHome (Jan 20, 2006)

Thank you all so much for letting me pick your brains....the pics are great. You've already helped me decide some of the choices, but also created another question. Thanks for all the help keep it coming.


I thought they had black plastic foundation that was just flat and did not have any comb on it.....wouldn't the bees build the right size comb on these ones too. The crimp wire don't seem like they would be very durable for harvesting honey on.....do you have to replace it every year or so?

Downhome


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

Crimp wired, cross wired and embedded will last 20 plus years, with normal maintenance and care. It is recommended you change out your comb every 5 years, so it should be no problem with it lasting. 

As for plastic, black or white, I won't have it in my hives.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

The plastic has those cell out lines molded in but sort of flat. The bees seem when they are tired of looking for better stuff to at least partly draw it out.
Some where I have pictures of plastic that was in a hive well over two years and they still would not draw out the last two inches. Might just as well gave them medium wax. they would have drew that out and hung burr comb on the last two inches of dead space.

 Al


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## DownHome (Jan 20, 2006)

How do you extract the honey from wax foundation without damaging the wax if you don't have a spinner? Won't just uncapping it mess it up?


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

DownHome said:


> How do you extract the honey from wax foundation without damaging the wax if you don't have a spinner? Won't just uncapping it mess it up?


Uncapping doesn't mess it up. If you don't have an extractor, you can crush & strain. Many beekeepers do this, but it does require the bees to draw new comb each year. A better alternative is to borrow an extractor. Sometimes local clubs have an extractor that members can borrow. My local club doesn't, but several members have extractors that they're happy to loan out.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

For honey supers if you are not going to use an extractor just use the thin cut comb wax foundation.
then you can either use it as cut comb honey or crush and strain it.

A lot of clubs either have extractors they rent out, loan out to members. Then there are the bee keepers who do have an extractor who will loan, rent or do your extracting on a so much honey for doing it.

I did it that way for 2 years before we got an extractor. He got a 1/3 of the honey and all the capping wax.

We now do extracting for others for a flat fee per box plus the wax. Last year we got $5.00 per box. We picked up the boxes at their home, did the uncapping and extracting, strained it and delivered the pails (owner supplied) of honey and empty supers back to the owner.

 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

This is Dadant wood frames with plastic foundation.
It was placed in a hive with package bees May 22. A week latter it was removed so we would not loose the package as they would not draw it out.
On fathers day I got a swarm call and this is all I had on hand so I put the swarm On it after rubbing it down good with honey. 
On labor day this is all the comb they had drew out on 4 frames. We married the colony to another weak colony we had.














































We did not buy this stuff. Kare won the complete hive raffle at SEMBA's spring bee conferance.

 Al


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

DownHome said:


> How do you extract the honey from wax foundation without damaging the wax if you don't have a spinner? Won't just uncapping it mess it up?


You can just use a fork to scratch the caps off the comb, and then lay it over a piece of hardware cloth topped cake pan. On a warm day in summer, it will drain overnight. Then do the other side; low tech--low cost. 

Keep the scratchings of wax. That's nice beeswax!


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## justgojumpit (May 5, 2003)

I guess it's low tech, but that must take a whole week for a single super!

justgojumpit


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## Michael Bush (Oct 26, 2008)

>FOUNDATION: It seems like the black plastic ones would make finding eggs much easier and be more durable than the crimp-wire...Do bees really throw a big fit about the plastic ones?

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoursimplesteps.htm#comb
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm

>BEE ESCAPES The triangle ones or the ones that fit right in the inner cover hole?

They are the best of the escapes. But if you just wait for a cold night the supers are often empty. A brush and some patience can also work. Abandonment during a flow can work.

>FEEDERS Im leaning towards a hive top feeder 

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#bottom

>TELESCOPING TOPS Polystyrene or wood and galvanized metal It seems like the polystyrene tops would be lighter than wood and blow off more easily?

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopentrance.htm

>QUEEN EXCLUDER Is plastic okay or should I go with metal.'

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#excluders

I'm fond of none.

>SIZE 8 Frame or 10 Frame and why....what difference does it really make?

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeseightframemedium.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#lighterboxes

No matter how many frames you put in a box, they weigh the same full of honey.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnewbees.htm


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