# Anger, revenge, or insanity over repos



## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

This is probably a subject for GC, but over there it seems to get overly radical and I'm hoping to have some honest discussion about this so I thought it might fit here in the survival forum. 

People are starting to fight back when their home gets repo'd. 

Tomorrow the Glen Beck show will air a story about how homeowners who loose their homes are destroying the inside of the home when they leave it. One house even had pigs in it. 

Are people that angry? are they loosing control? do they realize that they could end up in jail for destruction of bank owned property?

I've never heard of anything like this happening before. Could it be a new trend? Do people feel so helpless that they are striking out the only way they know how? Can they not sell the house or work out alternate payment terms? Do they realize that this will make it hard if not impossible to buy a house that they could afford? 

Looks like TSHTF and made a real bad mess not only for the homeowners, but for the financers too.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I don't know if it's that new..

2 years ago or more, I looked at a repo house. No faucets, no tub, no toilet, no light fixtures... and a couple of knocked in places on the wall board.

Another house, it was in better shape, but did not even have the cabinets in the kitchen. It looked almost like a 90% built house, not one that had been lived in.

But, I bet there will be anger taken out - "if I can't live here, no one will live here" attitude.

Angie


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

That's why we are going to sell our rental property. A security deposit won't cover much in damamges and people have been known to move in hours. Trying to get compensation for that is like trying to enforce a contract. 
I think it is just one more indication of how people can be, the gimme attitude. Vandalism can be difficult to prosecute.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Has anyone noticed the increase in parents killing families, lately? Does it come from money worries? One family's father had died and the home was being taken, the others, I don't know. But I did see that the news gave another family's mortage information at the bottom of the article.


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## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

Spinner said:


> This is probably a subject for GC, but over there it seems to get overly radical and I'm hoping to have some honest discussion about this so I thought it might fit here in the survival forum.
> 
> People are starting to fight back when their home gets repo'd.
> 
> ...


Well, I have never known a DECENT human being to do these things, mostly they are lower, middle-class types (ok, white you-know-what), who have a keen sense of entitlement (I DESERVE TO LIVE IN THIS HOUSE).

These people were not duped into buying these houses and signing up for these mortgages, I don't care what they say. I have worked in the real estate industry and I can tell you that lenders bend over backwards to make ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the buyer understands everything about their financing. Lenders can get in big trouble with a myriad of governmental agencies if they try to pull a fast one. Nope, everybody who signed on the "dotted line" knew exactly what they were doing. If they cannot afford those mortgages once they adjust they have no one to blame but themselves and have no right to take it out on anyone else - or the house, for that matter.

donsgal


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

I say wait a while and we'll see much more of this (even from non trailer trash).


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## OneCrazyRat (Sep 12, 2007)

I'm not trying to start anything ...
It only provoaked further thought on my part.

So you're saying it is only lower and middle class person who would trash a house? I personally have not nor would entertain the thought of doing such a thing I'd more likely address the source or person whom I had the issues. I did notice you left out upper class. I'm sure they wouldn't do such a thing, would they? They would pay your middle or lower class person to do it for them so I'd be curious to know who is more "trash like" the one who acted on their own or the one who had to find another to do the deed for them since money dosen't grow backbone, intestinal fortitude or testicles.

As for the main topic I do agree with you. Too many would rather set on their fat a~~es with their hand out to receive entitlements than to work for a living. IN MY LOCAL I think it is a combination of the drop in real estate values and slumlords who bought up several cheap houses with the intent of flipping them. Too many who bought all of these homes are now looking to unload them however and as fast as they can (including using the quit claim deed) before the values drop any further even if not fully disclosing true property conditions which as you say realators are held more accountable for. 

In a normal home purchase I also see fault on the side of the buyer that many either out of ignorance miscalculated what they could afford or lied on loan applications. If they lied in the financing phase I would partially blame the lender only for not doing a more thorough checktherwise, yes the buyer brought it upon themselves..



donsgal said:


> Well, I have never known a DECENT human being to do these things, mostly they are lower, middle-class types (ok, white you-know-what), who have a keen sense of entitlement (I DESERVE TO LIVE IN THIS HOUSE).
> 
> These people were not duped into buying these houses and signing up for these mortgages, I don't care what they say. I have worked in the real estate industry and I can tell you that lenders bend over backwards to make ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the buyer understands everything about their financing. Lenders can get in big trouble with a myriad of governmental agencies if they try to pull a fast one. Nope, everybody who signed on the "dotted line" knew exactly what they were doing. If they cannot afford those mortgages once they adjust they have no one to blame but themselves and have no right to take it out on anyone else - or the house, for that matter.
> 
> donsgal


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## OneCrazyRat (Sep 12, 2007)

susieM said:


> Has anyone noticed the increase in parents killing families, lately? Does it come from money worries? One family's father had died and the home was being taken, the others, I don't know. But I did see that the news gave another family's mortage information at the bottom of the article.


Here in the USA I would say many are drug, morals or money related. Perhaps maybe one income household and stress of income loss as manufacturing plants and business are forced to shut down.

- Don't put all your eggs in one basket
- Stay as far out of debt as possible
- Open a trust account


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

The sub-prime crisis is not only the fault of the poor, who may or may not have had the 'right' to buy a home. It is also very much the fault of the not-so-poor, who were more than happy to re-finance their homes and max out their credit cards in order to have everything they wanted.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Thank you Susie .... you are absolutely right. And also the fault of many lenders who didn't care what they loaned their money on because they would sell it on the secondary market and make their money that way. They did not care what happened to the mortgage OR the borrowers after that. We do many retro-active appraisal reviews for some of our clients (lenders, FNMA, Freddie Mac and Mortgage Insurance companies) and many of those appraisals we review are junk. Clearly shows that Underwriting did not give one iota whether or not the loan package was solid.

As far as REOs are concerned, 99% of those I do are disgusting to a point where I bring a change of clothes, strip before I get back into my truck and seal the clothes I wore in a plastic bag. You wouldn't believe the stuff you find. In a repo's house I bought as an investment property a few months ago I found a dead cat in the rubble ......


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## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

OneCrazyRat said:


> I'm not trying to start anything ...
> It only provoaked further thought on my part.
> 
> So you're saying it is only lower and middle class person who would trash a house? I personally have not nor would entertain the thought of doing such a thing I'd more likely address the source or person whom I had the issues. I did notice you left out upper class. I'm sure they wouldn't do such a thing, would they? They would pay your middle or lower class person to do it for them so I'd be curious to know who is more "trash like" the one who acted on their own or the one who had to find another to do the deed for them since money dosen't grow backbone, intestinal fortitude or testicles..


I didn't mean to imply that ALL lower middle class or middle class repos are trashed/damaged. Not at all, many folks have the maturity and decency to just walk away. But of all the repo houses that I have come into contact with (and there have been many, thanks to my line of work), all the trashed-out houses except ONE were in the under $150,000 price range. The only expensive house I have seen in this condition was well over $400,000 and in a VERY EXCLUSIVE subdivision.

Most often the would-be buyers simply do not have the incentive to make that "last trip" to the dump or the dumpster and most often there is just a lot of unwanted items and stinky garbage. Only one house that I have come into contact with was the house stripped of any valuable item. I have a feeling though, if news reports are accurate, that we will be seeing more of this as people become increasingly desperate for money.

Sad all the way around, but so much of these folks' problems stem from their own greed and inner need to "keep up with the Jones". A malady that we HTers do not seem to have.

donsgal


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

Reminds me of what Clinton's staff was reported to have done at the White House. Trash the phone systems and other things, take what doesn't belong to you, then leave.

Seems the folks losing their homes had a example to follow. Ready for four or eight more years of childishness?


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## a1cowmilker (Jun 14, 2005)

My husband was in a meeting about three years ago and some bankers were discussing a loan that was going bad. The people just could not make the payments. ( I don't know why). My husband was shocked when the president of the bank said," look, these people have been over banked (his words) you need to do what you need to do to make this work for them."

How is that for a shocker?

I know this will not help most people but I think there needs to be a whole lot more education going on before people sign up for a house that they cannot afford. And, if a mortgage company takes advantage of people (please let us loan you money at 32 per cent interest ) then maybe they will have to live with a few pigs in their houses. And I am going to leave that statement as it is.

just another way to look at things.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

What's the normal length of a home loan today. When I was young it was kind of standard to put 20% down and carry the loan for 30 years. Some loans went 35 years, but that was rare. When I bought my homestead my loan was 15 years. If a lot of people have short term loans, it seems like the banks could work with them by extending the loan 10 years and lowering the payments so they could keep their homes. Maybe transfer some of the loan to a balloon note to lower payments or find some way to help people keep their home at least long enough to sell it and repurchase a less expensive home. 

I realize that home values are dropping like a rock so many homes are not worth what is owed on them. The homeowners gambled that the value would go up. The loan companies did too. They both lost so now they need to face the fact that they screwed up and make the best of a bad situation if there is any way they can. 

If all the homes are repo'd, they won't sell at the overinflated price so the loan company will not recover what they have invested. They need to get real and face the fact that they are in a mess and try to find a way thru it that will benefit everyone.


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

I don't know what's more sad, people trashing out the place before they leave (lower income spectrum) or the recent rash of arson cases (higher income spectrum) in an attempt to collect insurance and pay off the mortgage- either way the lender winds up with a lot less equity than they bargained for and some scumbag is the reason (wealthy or poor). I can't and don't hold the lender responsible......When I went in to pre-qualify for a home loan they approved me for about 2 times what I felt I could afford....I stuck with MY plan and bought a place WITHIN my means, financed for ten years and paid it off......Sold that place for a handsome profit and "upgraded" to my current place. Still stayed WELL under what the "books" said I could afford. There are a wealth of mortgage calculators out there and quite frankly I find it hard for someone who is "squeaking" by on a $500/mo rent suddenly deciding they can take on a $1300/mo mortgage with no increase in income....... Is that so hard for people to understand?


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## Michael Kawalek (Jun 21, 2007)

I think there is some natural selection here that brings people down to the bottum, behavior wise. Those people that are hard working, live within their means, and don't have the need to "keep up with the Jones'" aren't the kind of people that went for interest only loans. They're the ones that were realistic and said "Honey, I don't think we would be able to afford this"! The people that were stupid enough to get into this mess are, well... stupid.

Now these stupid people are lossing their homes, but can't admit to themselves (or maybe too stupid to realize) that it's their fault, they have to have some way of getting back at "THEM" for making them lose their house. So they do stupid things like trashing it. I think you see less of this at the high end because these people at least realize that it's they're own fault. 

You might contradict me on this, but I'd say there's a high correlation between people's basic inteligence, and how much money they're capable of making.
Michael


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

It's all coming home to roost, simple as that.

Behind every repo house there is one or several mortgage notes that are held by (guess who) BANKERS. Now the poor bankers are attempting to sell this paper as fast as they can because they know that the paper is not worth what the numbers printed on the paper say, they also know that the dollar is going down the sewer in a hurry. It was their intent to create a crisis, and they did succeed at that. The hope was that the government would bail out the poor bankers just like they did with the contrived "Credid Card Crisis".

The problem is they, the poor bankers, created too big of a crisis. They got too greedy. Now they face the prospect of owning some (actually a lot) of the junk that they overloaned on. Since the poor bankers actually have little or no money, it belongs to the depositors, and since we use a fractional reserve system in banking which means that the poor bankers can actually loan more money than they have then the matter can be called a crisis. One thing for sure is that the poor bankers created it out of a lust for money. They are now allowed to collect interest on more money than they have, and if there is a problem the government will bail them out.

Well there is a problem.

Now watch carefully as the government shifts mountains of cash to the poor bankers. Is it really the bankers who are directing the government? Possibly so.

Repos are taking place in all price ranges. In the upper income levels it will be amazing how fast that a poor homeowner who "lost" his McMansion can qualify for another loan. Some get their credit cleaned up in just a few weeks, it's a miricle.

In the middle or lower income ranges there will be government subsidised co-op housing and other types of housing for the poor unfortunates to rent. What the heck the government has a whole agency to take care of thes it is called HUD. The poor HUD recipients will get a fresh start. Soon after they will get training in budget and so on. Soon they will owe the poor bankers once more. If they decide to stay on the system there will be a lot of new buildings needed. The bankers will provide the loans for the builders, and the government will guarantee the loans will be repaid. It's just part of the crisis that the poor bankers dreamed up, and directed the government to help them with.

There is no cure for stupid. The poor bankers are not stupid. The victims are the borrowers. Repo people often out of frustration or just plain apathy will trash a house and leave. This serves no useful purpose. If the had a little sense they would not have "dealt with the devil" and bought the house. Now that said if thay had a little more sense they would just stay put in their dream home. Often they move too soon sometimes six months to a year too soon. They could live free for a lot longer and actually benefit the value of the house, if they would just cool it.


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## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

Spinner said:


> What's the normal length of a home loan today. When I was young it was kind of standard to put 20% down and carry the loan for 30 years. Some loans went 35 years, but that was rare. When I bought my homestead my loan was 15 years.


The "standard" is still 30 years on a fixed rate loan. However, I know that in Great Britain they are offering 50 year mortgages and *get this* in Japan (where housing is insanely expensive), they are now offering 100 year mortgages (they call them "generational mortgages") under the pretext that in Japan it is common for many successive generations to live in the same house. That's fine and dandy unless your Grandson Hashimoto decides he doesn't want to live in a 300 square foot condo on the 33rd floor of a high rise in the middle of Tokyo (that he still owes $400,000 on). yikes 

donsgal


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

donsgal said:


> Well, I have never known a DECENT human being to do these things, mostly they are lower, middle-class types (ok, white you-know-what), who have a keen sense of entitlement (I DESERVE TO LIVE IN THIS HOUSE).
> 
> These people were not duped into buying these houses and signing up for these mortgages, I don't care what they say. I have worked in the real estate industry and I can tell you that lenders bend over backwards to make ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the buyer understands everything about their financing. Lenders can get in big trouble with a myriad of governmental agencies if they try to pull a fast one. Nope, everybody who signed on the "dotted line" knew exactly what they were doing. If they cannot afford those mortgages once they adjust they have no one to blame but themselves and have no right to take it out on anyone else - or the house, for that matter.
> 
> donsgal


As I recall the pigs in the house was done in a multimillion dollar home not what a lower class "you know what" could even attempt to purchase.
As far as lenders making ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the buyer understands everything . thats a crock very few first time buyers have a clue as to a variable rate or balloon payments and you can bet the agent doesnt go out of their way on explaining them . These "you know whats" that were buying houses were working on the american dream, They wanted the same thing you do a decent job a decent place their kids could call home . Prior to purchasing the house and signing on the dotted line they were bombarded with offers of zero down and XX payments, yeah there was a fine print that said rtes may raise from 6.5% to 30.5% and the final payment will vary (can we say balloon payment) when they walked in and asked about this loan the loan officer breazed through all the BS and technical terms quickly with a galnces asked them if the understood. So as not to look like an idiot (but to be proven one) they said yeah sure and signed. They were excited to be getting a house of their own and a place to raise their kids. Then a few months later their payments double . They call and ask why whats going on we've been on time and havent missed any payments whats the deal ?? The agent who was all smiles and friendliness when they signed tells them well I explained the rates may vary  Now these poor schmoocks are doomed . they didnt fully understand what they were getting into and yeah they didnt really want to know . They wanted their piece of the american dream and ended up with out a kiss or vasoline. Their dream of ever owning a home has been destroyed , the odds of their kids ever going to college is next to nil. Yeah they have to share some of the blame but so do the lending agencies . 
Bank of america was bought out by north carolina bank then as bank of america they are buying city bank (both BoA and CB broke federal laws in their lending practices) now the CEO of the bankrupt citybank will receive over 150 million in servernce in effect for breaking the law. So where is the justice ? Oh yeah its all the fault of those "you know whats " :flame: 
Sometimes the compassion around here is underwhelming


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## Mysticdream44 (Dec 29, 2004)

Any house or apartment I've ever rented or house I've owned, I always did my best to make sure it was clean when I left it. We never trashed a place. And I'm middle to lower middle class.
Now having said that, I did read in a local paper where a house across the river in Madison, IN was for sale and that it had been rented before and when the owner went in there a few weeks later after the people moved, that they found a dead decayed full grown bull in the bathroom. As far as I know they didn't know how or who put it in there, but it was a mess to clean up, this is in the middle of summer to by the way. And of course the bull had made a huge mess of the house and the smell to say the least was terrible. It doesn't surprise me that much that people tear up the insides of houses when they leave them, I just think we are hearing about it more now with the internet and all.


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## OneCrazyRat (Sep 12, 2007)

Windy in Kansas said:


> Reminds me of what Clinton's staff was reported to have done at the White House. Trash the phone systems and other things, take what doesn't belong to you, then leave.
> 
> Seems the folks losing their homes had a example to follow. Ready for four or eight more years of childishness?


I remember that too! They took all the "W" keys from all the computer keyboards and theived items from Airforce one. If not already they will possibly end up on Ebay. LOL! When Clinton was elected was the last time I voted...If the public is that stupid, they get what they deserve. That year I even looked into personal sovernty.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

I always considered what they did to be a practical joke...after all, they left a note, saying, "we'll be back'.

I don't think that people are trashing their houses or leaving them in disorder as a joke.


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## CJ (May 10, 2002)

The type of people who will do this are the ones that really scare me should our economy really go bust. They have no moral backbone, are greedy, vindictive and will not hesitate to trample over anyone or anything to fulfill their sense of entitlement.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

OneCrazyRat said:


> I remember that too! They took all the "W" keys from all the computer keyboards and theived items from Airforce one. If not already they will possibly end up on Ebay. LOL! When Clinton was elected was the last time I voted...If the public is that stupid, they get what they deserve. That year I even looked into personal sovernty.


Do a snopes on this and find out how false it is


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

It's not necessarily the former occupants that stripped the house either. I've been acquainted with people (and unfortunately related to others) who make their 'living' by cashing in scrap metal and other junk of dubious origin.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

I'm sorry PyroDon, but I think you are not giving people enough credit. (No pun intended.) It is the easiest thing in the world to look at an "adjustable rate mortgage" and say "Hmmm, it says it will adjust. Now the question is, do I think it will adjust up or down? Duh! It is not going to adjust down, silly!" Also, I was under the impression that most, not all, but a large portion of the people losing homes to foreclosure were either trying to make money in real estate or had lines of credit on top of their mortgage.

I really haven't heard too many stories about people that were "livin the American dream" except for a few people that DID make money off of the housing market. The people that are being hurt by this are mostly the ones that thought they could make a quick buck. There are probably a few exceptions, but this holds true for most of the people being affected right now. People are expected to understand what they sign up for. If you are right and people just smiled and nodded to avoid looking dumb, then they got what they deserved. I made a pain of myself when I signed my first lease because I made sure the office manager went over every single line with me. I did the same thing when I got my college loan...and I was fresh out of high school then. People have more sense than they let on.

Anyways...I've cleaned out rentals before, and people can make a mess because they don't get their stuff out (as was mentioned) or because they are vindictive. But you know what...if one of those wrecked houses goes on the market "as-is" with the right price, I would take it off the bank's hands. My goal in the coming recession/depression is not just to survive. It is to see if I can take the resources at my disposal and use the situation to help me accomplish my goals.

Kayleigh


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I take exception to those who say the lower class are stupid and would trash a place to get even.


Thats degradeing. I've enver trashed a place. I've always left it sparkling. I've never been repoed, but I did sell the house we OWENDED (bought and paid for) because the property taxes increased by double and we just were scraping by as is with medical bills that we couldn't afford......so we sold and moved to a trailor. So those of you who say its only the lower class doing this crap because tehy are stupid....you have no idea what the lower class is going through, obviously. Upper class doesnt mean higher class when it comes to people.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Well....whomever is doing it, I'll bet we'll be seeing more and more.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

susieM said:


> I always considered what they did to be a practical joke...after all, they left a note, saying, "we'll be back'.
> 
> I don't think that people are trashing their houses or leaving them in disorder as a joke.


What about all of the furniture and art they stole? Was that also a joke?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Last week I looked at a repo home. A small 3 bedroom 2 bath on 5 acres. Countrywide, the largest home lender that just sold out, held the mortgage. The house was 5 years old. The people lived in it for 3 years before abandoning it. They had not done any improvements on the house or the land in the time they spent there. Before they left they completely filled each room with trash, not just some trash thrown in the rooms, it was trash from the floor to the ceilings. Countrywide is trying to sell it as is with no closing cost if it is financed through them.
It was a nice little house but just about completely destroyed by people that could not pay for what they bought.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

I just heard that they are estimating that over 700,000 houses will be repo'd in Georgia this year. Over 500 forclosures are being auctioned this week in Atlanta alone with values from $30,000 to $700,000. They say next month about 7000 homes in Atlanta are facing forclosure. That's just one state. Across the country there will be millions of homes repo'd. 

I can't help but wonder where all those families will live? If they can't afford to make their home payments, will they be able to afford to pay rent? Will they end up on waiting lists for low income homes? Will they start living in cars or under bridges? Will they start traveling to other parts of the country looking for jobs and a better life just to discover that it's as bad or worse in other parts of the country? 

So many thoughts going thru my mind. I'm starting to see a repeat of the 30's and it's scary.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Spinner said:


> I just heard that they are estimating that over 700,000 houses will be repo'd in Georgia this year. Over 500 forclosures are being auctioned this week in Atlanta alone with values from $30,000 to $700,000. They say next month about 7000 homes in Atlanta are facing forclosure. That's just one state. Across the country there will be millions of homes repo'd.
> 
> I can't help but wonder where all those families will live? If they can't afford to make their home payments, will they be able to afford to pay rent? Will they end up on waiting lists for low income homes? Will they start living in cars or under bridges? Will they start traveling to other parts of the country looking for jobs and a better life just to discover that it's as bad or worse in other parts of the country?
> 
> So many thoughts going thru my mind. I'm starting to see a repeat of the 30's and it's scary.


I've wondered some of the same things.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

It started around here a couple years ago when they doubled and trippled the prperty taxes.....you have a lot of low income factory workers and elderly fixed income folks in town...The rich part of the county didn't see ANY increese, why just the poor part of town??? in fact we had to even move (I'm glad I did though, I like this area so much better then Hammond, IN) But a lot of families are being put out and houses are being seized.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

I still feel that a large portion of the houses being foreclosed on did not have the owners occupying them. It may be more common in my area than other parts of the country though. I know three people personally who bought real estate to resell quickly, and then were left with the mortgages when the houses stayed on the market. No one was displaced because there was no one living there.

I do have people in my family that can no longer afford their rental because when the lease came around to be renewed, the property owner upped the rent. It turns out the owner had been trying to flip houses and lost a good deal of money. Where my family will end up? Either in a smaller apartment or moving back in with family. I think a lot of people are downsizing or moving in with relatives. There aren't really many other choices unless you are looking to live on the street.

Kayleigh


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## Sustainable Joy (Nov 17, 2007)

I feel sorry for many of these people who have lost thier homes. The fact is that half the population is below average intelligence. Think about it. Yes, they *should* have done thier homework. But they didn't. Now we all have to face the spectre of all of these homeless, broke, angry and desperate people. 

You know, DH and I have been scrimping and saving for years, trying to buy a home. We want to buy a duplex, to live in one half and rent out the other. We've been learning all about mortgages, and real estate in general, for 2 years now. My MIL has been positively *hounding* us to "just buy something" the whole time. Telling us how we're wasting money by paying rent, we should just buy something and it's guaranteed to go up in value over time.  

Now there is a huge glut of duplexes on the market... many of them are selling for $100,000 LESS than they were a year ago. Investors are desperate to unload them. We could afford to buy 2 duplexes at these prices. And my MIL (who doesn't seem to recall how she sweated us to just buy something before) is now in a lather... buy, buy, buy. But we won't, not until DH has a more steady job. 

Basically, my point is that if more people had some self restraint, we wouldn't be in this mess. It seems like in years past, people wouldn't need a government agency to come and explain that you don't borrow more than you can pay back.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

What is going to happen to all of those empty houses?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

susieM said:


> What is going to happen to all of those empty houses?


They will be rented back to people who could not make the payments on the houses they bought.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Pancho, If the people couldn't afford to live in them when they owned them, how will they afford to live in them when someone else owns them? The new owners will not rent them for less than the payments so how will that work out? 

Will they be rented on HUD so the taxpayers pick up the tab? That's part of the problem now. The masses can't continue to live off the taxpayers. 

NickieL, You can have your property reassessed to have the tax lowered. With the drop in housing prices, reassessments should be done everywhere. The counties were fast to raise tax rates and will not drop them near as quickly. Call and request a reassessment, they have to do it when it's requested.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Spinner said:


> Pancho, If the people couldn't afford to live in them when they owned them, how will they afford to live in them when someone else owns them? The new owners will not rent them for less than the payments so how will that work out?
> 
> Will they be rented on HUD so the taxpayers pick up the tab? That's part of the problem now. The masses can't continue to live off the taxpayers.
> 
> NickieL, You can have your property reassessed to have the tax lowered. With the drop in housing prices, reassessments should be done everywhere. The counties were fast to raise tax rates and will not drop them near as quickly. Call and request a reassessment, they have to do it when it's requested.


The person who rents a repoed house will not be the original owner or even an owner who lost a comparable house. 
The renter will be one of the people who chose to buy a larger higher priced house they could not afford. They will now have to rent a smaller cheaper house they can afford on their income.
They will not rent the same house they lost. They will rent a smaller house some other homeowner lost for the same reason they lost theirs.

In other words, each family will have to take a step or two backwards. Their home that they could not afford will be rented to some one else who bought a much larger higher priced house. They in turn will have to rent a much smaller cheaper house than they one they were buying.
It will all work out. People will return to a home they can afford. Hopefully this will teach many a lesson they should have learned years ago. Live within your means.


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

Spinner said:


> I realize that home values are dropping like a rock so many homes are not worth what is owed on them. The homeowners gambled that the value would go up. The loan companies did too. They both lost so now they need to face the fact that they screwed up and make the best of a bad situation if there is any way they can.
> 
> 
> > The key word for most of the parties involved is "gambled". Everyone seemed to expect house prices to keep going up. I was surprised that the housing market didn't collapse a year or two ago, but the Fed kept dropping interest rates and bailing out the big guys to delay it. I remember similar thins happening back in the 1980s--lots of people sold their houses for less than they owed where we were living at the time, as they expected prices to keep going up. Well, they dropped for a few years, and then went up for the last 20 years--now we are in for it!!


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

pancho said:


> The person who rents a repoed house will not be the original owner or even an owner who lost a comparable house.
> The renter will be one of the people who chose to buy a larger higher priced house they could not afford. They will now have to rent a smaller cheaper house they can afford on their income.
> They will not rent the same house they lost. They will rent a smaller house some other homeowner lost for the same reason they lost theirs.
> 
> ...


I understand the step-down process. I'm wondering what will happen to the houses that nobody will be able to afford. Is there enough lower cost housing for everyone who will be looking to step down? What will happen to the people who are already in the lower cost houses? They have nowhere to step down to? Have builders been building lower cost housing the past few years? I've heard lots about McMansions, but not much about affordable housing. 

Will investors buy the McMansions and turn them into apts. or possibly rooming houses? Somebody will have to do something with all those McMansions that people can't afford to live in. 

I'm not trying to stump you, I'm trying to wrap my mind around this to figure out what happens at the top that will be abandoned and at the bottom where it's already overcrowded without the "step-downs". I don't think there is enough lower cost homes to go around for everyone who will be needing them.


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## Michael Kawalek (Jun 21, 2007)

One thought that I've had in the back of my mind for some time now is that the American economy has been artificially propped up for decades now. The golden era for America was after WWII and we were on top. We came through the war unscathed with our industry intact and a large workforce. America made products for the entire world, simply because we could. This advantage started to slip by the 70's as industrial economies in places like Japan finally got their act together to start competing with us. We could see this happening in the late 60's and into the 70's when they talked about the rust belt and industrial decay. Then, the banks came up with the wonderful concept of the credit card which allowed people to live beyond their means. I suppose there have always been people like that, however, easy credit changed the scale of it all.

American families tried to keep up, still trying to keep the American dream alive. Now however it took both the husband and wife working together to keep the same relative affluence as their parents. As the real standard of living fell further, we compansated again by saving less. Finally, we've reached the point we are at today. People are living way beyond their means, savings have become negative, debt has reached absurd levels, and the last stratagy to get people into houses, the interest only loan, is a crumbling pillar ready to collape. At the same time, the price of everything is going to go up because of rising energy costs. Shortly our artificially propped up economy is going to come crashing down to the real level it's supposed to be at. Unfortunately, there will be a lot of Americans caught in that rubble as it falls! 

Who's "fault" it is could be something that debated for generations. It's reasonable to think that bankers, developers, or industrialists did things the way they did for the good of the economy, and the American people. At the same time, there are people that used the whole scheme for their personal enrichment. But, that still leaves us where we are now and what are we going to do. It's my guess that the best way to avoid being caught in the rubble is to be a debt-free as possible. In every other crash that's happened before, those are the people that survived! Unfortunately, there aren't that many of us. Now who's fault is that?
Michael


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Spinner said:


> I understand the step-down process. I'm wondering what will happen to the houses that nobody will be able to afford. Is there enough lower cost housing for everyone who will be looking to step down? What will happen to the people who are already in the lower cost houses? They have nowhere to step down to? Have builders been building lower cost housing the past few years? I've heard lots about McMansions, but not much about affordable housing.
> 
> Will investors buy the McMansions and turn them into apts. or possibly rooming houses? Somebody will have to do something with all those McMansions that people can't afford to live in.
> 
> I'm not trying to stump you, I'm trying to wrap my mind around this to figure out what happens at the top that will be abandoned and at the bottom where it's already overcrowded without the "step-downs". I don't think there is enough lower cost homes to go around for everyone who will be needing them.


There hasn't ever been built a house that no one could afford. Many people have not been effected by the housing crisis. They are still buying houses. The housing problem is mostly restricted to the ones who bought with an adjustable mortgage. Countrywide has many of these loans. They have recently sold out to Bank of America. From what I have heard BOA is going to replace many of the adjustable loans with conventional loans. This should allow many of the people who lost or are loosing their homes to keep them.

Not many builders are building low income housing. Not enough profit in it. The ones that are building them are not what I consider low income homes. There are still just as many homes in the U.S. as they were before the housing crisis and builders are still building. Some people will have to live in these older homes. There is a lot of older homes. Take for instance in Jackson, Ms. Thousands of homes are available for those who will just pay the taxes on them. These are not top quality homes but they are there for those who want them.

The percentage of people with McMansions being repoed is lower than the cheaper homes.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I think a big part of this is due to the media. (The media, you say, Ernie? How can this be? Have you gone off your meds again?)

The media has a constant barrage of pundits and even presidential candidates all bemoaning the "housing crisis" and the sub-prime lending crisis. They're all talking about how these well-intentioned people got bilked out of their homes by fast-talking, criminal-minded mortgage companies. That note has been played so loud and so long that now everyone who is losing their home due to bad decisions (both on their part and the part of the lender) feels that they are the victim and the bank is the bad guy. They feel entitled to destroy that property because they feel cheated, both cheated by the bank that gave them a loan they knew they could never afford, and cheated by the government who will probably step in and help people later but isn't helping them RIGHT NOW while they're about to lose their home. 

So they then commit acts of vandalism and feel justified in doing it. The act is one of impotent rage but it's also a pretty serious and potentially felonious charge of destruction of property. 

Then there's always just your run of the mill scumbags out there. Those are going to be getting more press now then they ought to.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Ernie said:


> I think a big part of this is due to the media. (The media, you say, Ernie? How can this be? Have you gone off your meds again?)
> 
> The media has a constant barrage of pundits and even presidential candidates all bemoaning the "housing crisis" and the sub-prime lending crisis. They're all talking about how these well-intentioned people got bilked out of their homes by fast-talking, criminal-minded mortgage companies. That note has been played so loud and so long that now everyone who is losing their home due to bad decisions (both on their part and the part of the lender) feels that they are the victim and the bank is the bad guy. They feel entitled to destroy that property because they feel cheated, both cheated by the bank that gave them a loan they knew they could never afford, and cheated by the government who will probably step in and help people later but isn't helping them RIGHT NOW while they're about to lose their home.
> 
> ...



The politicians are going by the numbers. There is a whole lot more home owners than there are mortgage companies. Politicians always go for the larger numbers. It is easy to blame the lenders for everything, they don't loose very many votes that way. They gain a lot of votes from home owners who are afraid they might have over borrowed.


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

Michael Kawalek said:


> One thought that I've had in the back of my mind for some time now is that the American economy has been artificially propped up for decades now. [....]


good description. here's a graphic that shows much of the same thing:










it's also why I don't think the current situation will play out the same way as the 1970's did.
--sgl


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## Hillbillybob (Jul 30, 2007)

I don't know what to say about new houses but I can tell you that people who trash houses have been around at least since the mid 70's.

I worked for a man who has several rentals and ended up dozing them rather than rent any more.

And I can tell you my one run in with the state for not renting.
My farm house set empty for 18 years. One level, no floor rock house built into the ground, no pluming, no appliances but I did have electric in the building turned on.

I was running a scrap yard and had steel on both sides of the driveway at the time.

I can remember being ask if I would rent out the house and I said no but I don't remember who ask me. I was contacted by the state telling me how much trouble that I was in because I had refused to rent out my building.

A woman from the state made me meet her at the farm and she kept telling me how I was going to haft to clean up my steel until we got up to the house. 

After I opened the door she said " You can't rent this out!" something I had tried to tell her over the phone and all the way up the drive way.

I never heard anymore from the state but have often wondered what would have happened if the house had been livable at the time?

After that I never did anything to finish up the inside. That is what I was doing at the time.

Hillbillybob


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Spinner said:


> I just heard that they are estimating that over 700,000 houses will be repo'd in Georgia this year. Over 500 forclosures are being auctioned this week in Atlanta alone with values from $30,000 to $700,000. They say next month about 7000 homes in Atlanta are facing forclosure. That's just one state. Across the country there will be millions of homes repo'd.
> 
> I can't help but wonder where all those families will live? If they can't afford to make their home payments, will they be able to afford to pay rent? Will they end up on waiting lists for low income homes? Will they start living in cars or under bridges? Will they start traveling to other parts of the country looking for jobs and a better life just to discover that it's as bad or worse in other parts of the country?
> 
> So many thoughts going thru my mind. I'm starting to see a repeat of the 30's and it's scary.


Well if they are not going to pay they just won't pay. HUD will take care of them most likely for free. If they are smart enough to sleep in cars then they will for sure be a priority (to HUD). This is America, trust me they will be taken care of, and taken care of very well at taxpayers expense :grump:


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

pancho said:


> The person who rents a repoed house will not be the original owner or even an owner who lost a comparable house.
> The renter will be one of the people who chose to buy a larger higher priced house they could not afford. They will now have to rent a smaller cheaper house they can afford on their income.
> They will not rent the same house they lost. They will rent a smaller house some other homeowner lost for the same reason they lost theirs.
> 
> ...


Since the new renters are out of practice as far as making payments go, this will probably cause a new "crisis". An eviction crisis. As the shuffle continues the lawyers will do well, the rehabbers will do O.K. and the legislators will write new and more protective rules to help the poor unfortunates who do not like to pay rent, or house payments. 

If a landlord loses a months rent in a year nobody notices (except the landlord), If the banking industry loses 8% of it's annual revenue it is called a "CRISIS" and is felt world wide. Go figger'.


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## Carolyn (Jan 5, 2008)

Personally I think everyone has a hand in this mess, the bankers and the homeowners. I don't think it has to do with "class" of people ( I hate that word). Although there are many that couldn't help the circumstances of the financing. From what I see, a lot of people want more and the best of everything whether they can afford it or not. Not just with housing, everything. I live in a mobile home ok a "trailer", but I am not trailer trash. I live in the country, have what I could afford at the time, but we have fixed and made things look nice, it takes work. I am not too proud to live in it. My mother passed away this fall, so I got what was left of my dads retirement ( he passed away several years ago) and now will get my part of my parents house and my daughters and I have looked and found a very nice brand new mobile home, but it will be 1/2 to 2/3 paid for when we get it. I would have liked to go for the 4 or 5 bedroom, family room, living room laundry room kinda double wide mobile home, but this one was brand new, 3 bedrooms and a nice kitchen and living room,but damaged enroute and they have to fix it like brand new, but we got quite a chunk off. Big thing it that it is what I can afford comfortably, ohh it is very nice and beautiful, but I can afford it!! If my mom hadn't passed away, we would still live in this mobile home, cause it is paid for even we are soo crowded. I see people live on credit cards and some live beyond their means which leads to trouble. Now I am not talking about everyone, I am one that has several major health problems, and I can not get health insurance because of the health issures, but I am soo lucky, because my children help me. I think it is sad that there are those who take advantage of things and ruin it for those who really need help. I am there now. CArolyn


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Hillbillybob said:


> I don't know what to say about new houses but I can tell you that people who trash houses have been around at least since the mid 70's.
> 
> I worked for a man who has several rentals and ended up dozing them rather than rent any more.
> 
> ...


How can it be that the state can force someone to rent out their property?


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

edcopp said:


> Well if they are not going to pay they just won't pay. HUD will take care of them most likely for free. If they are smart enough to sleep in cars then they will for sure be a priority (to HUD). This is America, trust me they will be taken care of, and taken care of very well at taxpayers expense :grump:


Are you sure of this? In my home state of Hawaii, there are over eight thousand people who live in tents at the beach, because there is no affordable housing. Many of them are employed.


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

edcopp said:


> This is America, trust me they will be taken care of, and taken care of very well at taxpayers expense :grump:


Don't tell that to anyone in New Orleans..lol


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

WolfWalksSoftly said:


> Don't tell that to anyone in New Orleans..lol


While I agree with your statement and wouldn't encourage anyone to shout that out down on Burbon Street, the fact is that even though slow to start, the Feds (taxpayers) are throwing HUGE sums of money at N.O. Many of the displaced folks who previously lived in what can most politely be described as sub standard housing (and who are now living in camper trailers) will come out with brand new housing (an "upgrade" if there ever was one) when it's said and done. At least until it's trashed out by occupants as most HUD projects wind up being. :flame: Employment is extremely high down there right now with all the construction and anyone who wants to WORK can find a job......


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## Michael Kawalek (Jun 21, 2007)

Carolyn said:


> Personally I think everyone has a hand in this mess, the bankers and the homeowners. I don't think it has to do with "class" of people ( I hate that word). Although there are many that couldn't help the circumstances of the financing. From what I see, a lot of people want more and the best of everything whether they can afford it or not. Not just with housing, everything... CArolyn


A lot of this has to do with the growth "psychological advertizing" (PA) as a marketing technique. PA I believe was originally conceived in the 1920's or so and started to mushroom after WWII. Basicly, PA is the creation of needs and desires based on weaknesses in human psychology. This was held in check for many years because of the mostly cash economy. Then the banks came up with the idea of personal credit cards. I remember that starting to come about in the early 70's which seems to correspond with SGL42's credit chart. This also corresponds to the time where real income by a large portion of Americans was starting to drop (loss of manufacturing jobs).

Credit started becoming more and more important to propping up our falsely high standard of living. Pundits started to talk about debt being a good thing. The final crutch devised to prop up this house of cards was the interest only loan. For decades now the American people have been conditioned to over spending, so they fell for this scheme too.

Now, it's 2008 and the party's over! Savings are zero, stagflation rampant, and people can't pay their bills. The banks are losing money to the point that they have to layoff their own workers. I don't think there can be a bailout because nobody in the US has that kind of money. Since we've been sending all the real money to the Arabs to buy petrocredits, it makes sense that they would come back here now to buy everything. We're selling off our birthrights to fill up that tank or buy that new TV. Next time you use your credit card, thank a Saudi!
Michael


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

A lot of folks will be able to rent a comparable house for half what the mortgage payment was.Thats happening a lot out here.

Lots of folks glad to walk away from their overpriced mortgages.

I doubt they will be homeless unless unemployed and if they have kids gov. will rent you a house.

This is just a market correction.Had a bubble,it popped,now the houses will be revalued at a lower price when resold to fit the more realistic current market price.

That is barring a depression and we arent at that point currently.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Spinner said:


> I understand the step-down process. I'm wondering what will happen to the houses that nobody will be able to afford. Is there enough lower cost housing for everyone who will be looking to step down? What will happen to the people who are already in the lower cost houses? They have nowhere to step down to? Have builders been building lower cost housing the past few years? I've heard lots about McMansions, but not much about affordable housing.
> 
> Will investors buy the McMansions and turn them into apts. or possibly rooming houses? Somebody will have to do something with all those McMansions that people can't afford to live in.
> 
> I'm not trying to stump you, I'm trying to wrap my mind around this to figure out what happens at the top that will be abandoned and at the bottom where it's already overcrowded without the "step-downs". I don't think there is enough lower cost homes to go around for everyone who will be needing them.


The buyers of those houses don't buy them at market value, but rather offer the bank who is now holding the title a certain amount which they may or may not accept.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

susieM said:


> How can it be that the state can force someone to rent out their property?


They can't.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Dutchie said:


> The buyers of those houses don't buy them at market value, but rather offer the bank who is now holding the title a certain amount which they may or may not accept.


Exactly. 

I bought the house next door from a government loan foreclosure.I offered half the price they listed,they ignored me.I believe every 3-4 weeks they lowered their selling price,I submitted my bid,they ignored me.

When they got their asking price to within 5000 of my offer I decided to quit pushing my luck on price and bought it.


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## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

The place I bought before my current home was a repo. It was a small 3br home on an acre. When I bought the place, it was trashed. The toilet had been taken, there were piles of human crap all over the house, mounds of trash, few spots of spray paint. We had to replace all the carpet and padding and do a lot of cleaning. Not sure what type of person it takes to take a crap in the middle of a kitchen floor before moving out but some people out there are just messed up and dont care. Although, I will say that they probably did me a favor as I absolutely stole that place as no one wanted to touch it, lol.


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## GingerN (Apr 24, 2007)

Dutchie said:


> They can't.


The only way I can see the state getting involved would be if the person who called the state led the state housing authority to believe their request was refused due to some sort of discrimination. IIRC, you can not refuse to rent to someone for reasons of race, religion, national origin (not immigration status, origin) or gender. Who knows what that person told the state.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

susieM said:


> Are you sure of this? In my home state of Hawaii, there are over eight thousand people who live in tents at the beach, because there is no affordable housing. Many of them are employed.


HUD has a waiting list, a very long one. It is getting longer all the time as landlords are left with property damaged beyond livability. There are any number of reasons that the property available for rent does not meet the need. Most of the people who apply to rent property are not creditworthy, so landlords are becoming more reluctant to assume the risks involved. You live in a nice climate. There may be some delay in the government being pressed into meeting the need, be patient.

Remember that the homeless vote too. Sooner or later some politician who wants to be re-elected will come up with a bill to houes the po' folks who just can't seem to make it on their own. Their vote will count. They will have brand new apartments built for them to move into. We had much the same situation during the 1970's when we had runaway inflation, and Jimmy Carter was president. Don't worry be happy. The government will fix everything with the taxpayers money.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

WolfWalksSoftly said:


> Don't tell that to anyone in New Orleans..lol


Seems like the New Orleans bunch got debit cards, and new mobile homes to live in for free almost immidiately, or as soon as the mayor got his EGO out of the way.:bash:


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I cannot post on this subject without sounding like a heartless cruel person.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

susieM said:


> The sub-prime crisis is not only the fault of the poor, who may or may not have had the 'right' to buy a home. It is also very much the fault of the not-so-poor, who were more than happy to re-finance their homes and max out their credit cards in order to have everything they wanted.


I saw this coming when the Congress mandated the lowering of regulations to find ways to fit the needs of the "underserved"...in the area of homebuying..I remember a State of the Union Address where the President made the comment of how more people were owning homes than ever.. I remember thinking "Oh brother that can't be good'..even though their intentions were in the right place. 

And the lenders were only too happy to oblige...especially when they could place a side "hedge bet" that they would default..:grump:.They made money either way. You will see the pendulum swing in the other direction once this crisis is over people will need AAA credit, large down payments, and proven income. It will become very difficult for families to actually own homes after 2011...


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

susieM said:


> The sub-prime crisis is not only the fault of the poor, who may or may not have had the 'right' to buy a home. It is also very much the fault of the not-so-poor, who were more than happy to re-finance their homes and max out their credit cards in order to have everything they wanted.


Exactly... holding the interest rates at 1% for as long as was done only made the problem much more worse..


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## reddy (Jul 8, 2007)

well i don't think it's right for them to trash any house, But i can understand the frustration they were sold in having a dream house at an affordable price just so it can be pulled right under them is not right also.

I have friends that are being stubborn and trying to keep paying their house mortgage that went up twice already from $1800 to $6000 they are both working 2 jobs to pay for it but itâs suppose to go for another adjustment in 3 monthâ¦.they are at the end of the rope as it is. Their lender is not helping them at all and most of the programs set forth they donât qualify. By the time they realize it the rope is going to be a noose, but they still pray on a miracle if one donât come they donât know what to do or have any money to put their stuff in storage either. So under these circumstances if they trash the house I sort could understand why someone would do it. After all for some of this people they have lost everything! So going to jail or the nearest park bench would be the same for them.

Rent is going up as the demand goes up but most have no money to pay for the higher prices and their debt consolidation payment on top of it allâ¦..after all those people that are losing their house where are they going? 
I also heard stories of people that default and get foreclosed and still lived in the house anyway.

I blame the realtors for whatâs going on. They fall in the same category as doctors or lawyers were you pay them to take care of your best interest.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

reddy said:


> I have friends that are being stubborn and trying to keep paying their house mortgage that went up twice already from $1800 to $6000 they are both working 2 jobs to pay for it but itâs suppose to go for another adjustment in 3 monthâ¦.they are at the end of the rope as it is.


Did they not know that the rate was going to go up? I mean, adjustable usually does NOT mean it adjusts down. I don't care if someone told them they could refinance, did they know when they signed the paper that the cost would go up?

I am sure they are nice people. I am sure they are working hard and don't want to lose their home. But did they sign the paper at gunpoint, or willingly and happily?

The only person I could be angry with in this situation would have to be myself. Rather than assume that everyone out there is doing everything in my best interest, I should assume that they are human. And also that I am not their responsibility to look after. OF COURSE the realtor told you to buy the house you couldn't afford. Sheesh, I thought they were only in it to help me out, it isn't like their paycheck depended on what I bought...

Kayleigh


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## reddy (Jul 8, 2007)

******* said:


> Did they not know that the rate was going to go up? I mean, adjustable usually does NOT mean it adjusts down. I don't care if someone told them they could refinance, did they know when they signed the paper that the cost would go up?
> 
> I am sure they are nice people. I am sure they are working hard and don't want to lose their home. But did they sign the paper at gunpoint, or willingly and happily?
> 
> ...


Your opinion is one of a very righteous individual. Like I said they thought of the realtor the same way you would think of a doctor/lawyer.
But to answer your question yes they knew it was a adjustable but their realtor assured them that it didn't matter as the percentage was so low anyway and didn't see it rising any time soon.

They are not stock brokers, lawyers, and/or realtors....they like all of us rather pay someone else to do things for them......at the end it will always be their fault for trusting the realtor and lending company. Thinking that even though they have a paycheck counting on the sale they could have had some kind of integrity in the way they were conducting bis.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

reddy said:


> Your opinion is one of a very righteous individual. Like I said they thought of the realtor the same way you would think of a doctor/lawyer.
> But to answer your question yes they knew it was a adjustable but their realtor assured them that it didn't matter as the percentage was so low anyway and didn't see it rising any time soon.
> 
> They are not stock brokers, lawyers, and/or realtors....they like all of us rather pay someone else to do things for them......at the end it will always be their fault for trusting the realtor and lending company. Thinking that even though they have a paycheck counting on the sale they could have had some kind of integrity in the way they were conducting bis.


Ignorance of the law or not reading and understanding the contract you're about to sign is no excuse. When you sign papers, you better know what you're signing. People will tell you anything in order to make a sale... it's up to YOU, the consumer, to not get hoodwinked. Caveat emptor and all that, ya know?

I do not feel sorry for your friends. 

Now, call me righteous, too.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Something else that is happening to these houses is that after they are empty, thieves are going in and stripping the copper piping/tubing and electrical wiring to sell as scrap metal. It's happening around here to both repos and to houses still under construction. Also businesses that are defunct or other empty buildings.


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## reddy (Jul 8, 2007)

JGex said:


> Ignorance of the law or not reading and understanding the contract you're about to sign is no excuse. When you sign papers, you better know what you're signing. People will tell you anything in order to make a sale... it's up to YOU, the consumer, to not get hoodwinked. Caveat emptor and all that, ya know?
> 
> I do not feel sorry for your friends.
> 
> Now, call me righteous, too.


Yes you are very right. Consumers and Americans in general should be more educated in all aspects of our country and how itâs runâ¦â¦the reason why our great economy and country is falling is because we all decided to trust someone elseâ¦.from our president, senate, congress, doctors, lawyer, religious leaders, pharmaceuticals makers, all agencies that control almost every aspect of our life from where our food comes from to what you allow to do in your own propertyâ¦â¦..So you see if we applied your conviction in a general wayâ¦.your opinion makes no real senseâ¦â¦if law were base under your notion. No one should be responsible when something goes wrong as the person\s should have know betterâ¦â¦even if the information/prediction machine is not available at the time you made the decision.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Oh, baloney. You and your friends are looking for a way out of taking personal responsibility for the situation they are in. 

Your friends have NO ONE to blame but themselves. THEY allowed themselves to be sold a house they couldn't afford. 

I choose to live in a house that's unfinished, has no furniture except my bed, a dresser, a makeshift kitchen and laundry because I have enough sense not to sign onto mortgage I can't afford. I'm building mine as money & time allows. 

I've bought 2 houses and a business in the past. I read the paperwork before I signed it. I asked questions and studied up to find out what the terms were and what a balloon payment would be - and I trusted NO ONE to look out for MY best interests. People look out for THEIR best interests. Realtors aren't trying to get me the best deal; they're trying to get the best commission they can for themselves. Mortgage companies are doing the same thing. Your friends are pretty naive if they thought otherwise. 

I took personal responsibility and made darned sure that I didn't get in over my head when I took out loans and/or credit. Your friends would have done themselves a great service if they had been realistic about what they could afford and had taken the time to do the research into exactly what they were signing instead of taking the realtors advice. 

When anyone buys a house, they HAVE to take into consideration what will happen in case of no job or someone gets sick. This is not new information. 

Now, do I think the predatory lenders need to investigated for their part in the sub-prime fiasco? Yes, of course I do. That still does not absolve your friends for their responsibility or lack thereof. 

Live within your means. If your friends had to do a debt consolidation, then they were very likely in trouble bfore they bought their "dream house."


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## reddy (Jul 8, 2007)

JGex said:


> Oh, baloney. You and your friends are looking for a way out of taking personal responsibility for the situation they are in.
> 
> Your friends have NO ONE to blame but themselves. THEY allowed themselves to be sold a house they couldn't afford.
> 
> ...



WOW you sound bitter! you probably one of those people that hate the rich for being rich and never stoping to think that if they were born that way wasn't of their choosing, and if they had the will to work hard. Plus is always unwise to judge by the same standards one lives as each of us have different ones.....that you choose to trust no one is great but sadly most of America is not like that, and we see the result of blindly following and trusting explode in our faces and not just my friends and losing their house either.

what are my friends not taking responsibility for in your opinion? where did i said that my friend had to do a debt consolidation? You should try to use a little bit of empathy.....what happens to your friends and neighbors today might be you tomorrow kind of thing applied it to everything in your life.

yes you are right about when someone makes any kind of life changing decisions from buying a house to having kids...but sadly most people don't think of the bad it could happen we aren't taught to worry about such things....heck* most don't have a living will or a plan on who is going to take care of the children should the parent die......so in essence your standard can not be realistically applied to most human being populating this nation.




*changed to a more site acceptable explitive. - Angie


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

reddy said:


> WOW you sound bitter! you probably one of those people that hate the rich for being rich and never stoping to think that if they were born that way wasn't of their choosing, and if they had the will to work hard. Plus is always unwise to judge by the same standards one lives as each of us have different ones.....that you choose to trust no one is great but sadly most of America is not like that, and we see the result of blindly following and trusting explode in our faces and not just my friends and losing their house either.
> 
> what are my friends not taking responsibility for in your opinion? where did i said that my friend had to do a debt consolidation? You should try to use a little bit of empathy.....what happens to your friends and neighbors today might be you tomorrow kind of thing applied it to everything in your life.
> 
> ...


lol, bitter? About what? Hate the rich? Where in my posts did you ever get that idea? One of my best friends inherited the Mennen fortune.

You mentioned debt consolidation in your first post. Your posts are a little difficult to read, so if I mistakenly applied that to your friends plight, then my apologies for misinterpretting.



> but sadly most people don't think of the bad it could happen we aren't taught to worry about such things....


Au contraire. Some of us ARE taught to worry about those things.... and plan for them. Not saying that we all don't slip up every now and again, but c'mon, a lot of people got themselves into this sub-prime mess because they had visions of sugarplums dancing in their heads about how they should be living... and for most (as we are finding out now) it was beyond their means. 

My brother just built a huge house with a huge mortgage. I'd feel the same way if he had financed it in a manner he couldn't afford... that it was his decision, his choice if he's put himself in a financial pickle. He could have built a much more modest home, but he chose to build the bigger custom built deal, and because he had a sizable down payment and didn't try to get out of paying much at closing, he will probably weather the real estate storm just fine. 

That's what I mean about personal responsibility. You don't buy a $600,000 home with no money down and zero interest for the first year when you make $45k a year. Heck, you probably don't do it if you make $100k a year. You certainly can't get angry with anyone but yourself for signing the papers. That's simple economics. And for sure you don't destroy the home in a fit of rage because you made a bad decision and you realize you can't make the payments.

Just out of curiosity, and of course you don't have to respond since this is probably asking too much, but what were your friends' combined income before they bought their house and how much did the house cost? Or heck, just tell me what the house cost. 

Oh, and I just want you to know, I am very empathetic to most situations. I'm having trouble working it up for this crisis because of people like this: http://www.philly.com/philly/business/homepage/20080218_A_familys_struggle_against_great_debt.html

:shrug:


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## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

Spinner said:


> This is probably a subject for GC, but over there it seems to get overly radical and I'm hoping to have some honest discussion about this so I thought it might fit here in the survival forum.
> 
> People are starting to fight back when their home gets repo'd.
> 
> ...


These people have no right to get angry. Nobody held a gun to their head and made them sign the papers to buy houses they could not afford to pay for. I work with repos a lot and usually it is only the lower-income types who leave the houses a mess or strip it of any valuable items. Today, however, I did go into a house that would be worth about 200k and the previous tenant had stolen the floor registers and hardware from the kitchen cabinets. Go figure. The carpets were filthy too.

If you can't pay your mortgage, I figure the least you can do is leave gracefully and with some dignity. Being pigs (figuratively or literally) doesn't do anything for anyone.

donsgal


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## reddy (Jul 8, 2007)

JGex said:


> lol, bitter? About what? Hate the rich? Where in my posts did you ever get that idea? One of my best friends inherited the Mennen fortune.
> 
> You mentioned debt consolidation in your first post. Your posts are a little difficult to read, so if I mistakenly applied that to your friends plight, then my apologies for misinterpretting.
> 
> ...






why do I keep getting a message that my msg is too short when I try to post? how long those a replied have to be to accepted?


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Reddy, it was telling you your reply was too short because you were replying within the quote. It's just weird that way.

On the other, you can think me judgmental if you like, but your friends were playing the old "Keep up with the Jones" deal and they lost. They gambled their credit rating, and everything they own and came up snake eyes.

I have friends that are doing or have done the same thing this couple is doing and I think my friends are foolish, too. No, everyone does not do "what all the moms on the PTA do" and by that I mean if I can't afford a manicure, I don't run out and put it on the American Express. I never said they weren't nice people, just very naive and idealistic in their actions.

Somewhere along the line, the Great American Dream went from just mere home ownership and a comfy, yet frugal life to couples wanting McMansions and 2 car notes and every other darned thing advertised on the boob tube. The average American couple is leveraged up to their eyeballs in credit card debt and mortgages and car notes and yet they still spend, spend, spend.

I'm no genius, but even I have to question the thinking (or lack of) that went into a $350,000 15 yr mortgage. Key-rist, they couldn't do the math on that? Geez, even without interest that's $2k a month.


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## YoungOne (Aug 22, 2006)

OK, I now have my steel umbrella open and am ready for the onslaught.

A mortgage is a secured loan. BOTTOM LINE! If things get to tight or it just ain't working for you, WALK! The bank (lender) took a risk assuming that the home was worth X number of dollars and they'd be able to milk many times that from you (borrower).

People are told all the time to turn in expensive cars, jewelry and other expensive secured loan items if they can't meet the obligations yet we as Americans have been convinced that we owe the bank (the risk taker) for taking that risk.

I am not saying that you should go out and intentionally commit fraud by getting an equity loan, max it and skip but if you can't pay, just leave. THAT IS THE RISK the bank took and you (borrower) have paid interest for.

What finally won me over was an argument by someone (a former banker) who said "If I offered you 2X the value of your house in a loan against the house, why wouldn't you walk? You would have just sold me the house for twice what it was worth on the market?" Not an iron-clad argument, but enough for me.

I have watched 3 friends now lose more than there homes as they have fought to do "the right" thing and pay back a mortgage. One of these friends is now in a shelter with her 3 kids and husband because they let other things get bad while trying to keep a house that they knew they were going to loose.

WHEN YOU LOAN MONEY ON A SECURED LOAN YOU ASUME THE RISK THAT THE BORROWER WON'T WALK AND LEAVE YOU THE OWNER OF SAID PROPERTY!!!

I read through the posts and don't think that I am directing this at anyone or being belligerent so if you feel that way please excuse my inept writing abilities as a product of public education.

Thank the maker of spell-check.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

I don't know if this is telling you what they could do with their income and credit score, it probably is though.

But why wouldn't they just get a fixed rate to begin with? As far as I have heard, the big draw for these adjustable rates was that they let people who couldn't otherwise get a mortgage, get a mortgage. You make it sound like these people were living high on the hog. With a great credit score and a great income I would think the banks would be fighting with each other to give them a low rate on a fixed mortgage.

I'm not going to say what I could do if our family made $200k a year. We don't make that much a year. That's great if you do. But just like no one held a gun to their head to make them sign that mortgage, no one held a gun to their head to make them buy those cars or pay for their children's extracurriculars. (Although I know some kids who might consider it.)

I still don't see how this was anything but a lack of personal responsibility on the part of ANYONE, not just your friends, that bought a house and can no longer afford it because the payments have increased. There are very rare exceptions. Those exceptions are not people who got "fooled" by their realtor though.

Kayleigh


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## reddy (Jul 8, 2007)

JGex said:


> Reddy, it was telling you your reply was too short because you were replying within the quote. It's just weird that way. Thanks
> 
> On the other, you can think me judgmental if you like, but your friends were playing the old "Keep up with the Jones" deal and they lost. They gambled their credit rating, and everything they own and came up snake eyes. they both come from a middle class family background so they weren't trying to keep with the "Jonesâ but lived their life at the same standard they grew up in
> 
> ...


350K, 125K down, 15 year cause they wanted it pay off quickly and were told that with their credit most of the payment will go to the house, that the interest rate was so low and it's stay like that for years....in effect most people didn't see this mess coming and those that did were consider gloomy conspiracy theorist only looking for attention. LOL! I always wonder if those that try to warn us now laugh at us or do they feel sorry for us?


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

I think they got in over their heads.

They shouldnt sign papers they dont 'understand'.

Me thinks they are greedy and living beyond their means. I have no sympathy for them,sorry. They can make over 6000/month in take home pay they are smart enough to read and understand a contract.

Reap what you sow.

They made a bad investment,simple as that. And if you do that Im really not interested in their whining.They are NOT stupid people with that income.

They wanted low rates,housing inflation and a nice easy profit,dont kid yourself it was anything else.

They lost.

Too bad.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

*Sorry,most of us with open eyes have seen this coming for YEARS!*

That they had closed eyes I should care? I really dont,sorry.

Its called living within your means,thats not good enough for them obviously. ZERO sympathy here.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

It seems like they should be required to write a contract at the level of language 50% of the people can understand. In that case, in this country about 20 years ago it used to be 8th grade level. All government program literature needs to be written at that level. Maybe it should be required that all investment and contract literature be written so your average person knows exactly what they're getting themselves into, instead of having to hire someone else for big bucks to interpret it for them.


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## reddy (Jul 8, 2007)

mightybooboo said:


> *Sorry,most of us with open eyes have seen this coming for YEARS!*
> 
> That they had closed eyes I should care? I really dont,sorry.
> 
> Its called living within your means,thats not good enough for them obviously. ZERO sympathy here.


What's all of this about people not having sympathy for them? didn't know they nor I was looking for any I was just telling their story as an example of what happen when you trust the persons your doing Biz with.......further more it's already understood that they made a mistake. so what is the point of saying you feel sorry or not? was that ever a question anyway?

I hope that the majority of people done feel like you do......Because when SHTF that's exactly how the rest of the world could think of us as a nation and it seems there is no other enjoyment then kicking a dog while is down and we have a line of countries waiting for the chance....specially when some feel that ignorance, not educating yourself before signing or voting, or the way our decisions or lack of them was what put us in this situation, it's our fault for setting up programs to help the world and the people here without ever stopping to think how was all of it going to be paid, we cried out for revenge after 911 we call out for the war, now the war is here and we are bankrupt as a nation, and it's no fault but our own RIGHT?

By your standards American should get everything that's coming to us. as WE should have know what was going on, we were the ones that voted or lack thereof for our president, congressional bill, economic outlook........so yeap if the world reacts that way to our impending down fall.......going to hell will be better then what awaits us here.


My grandma always told us growing up that we should always look at people with the same empathy and sympathy one wants afforded to them. Life is a school and not everyone learns at the same rate add to it the imperfections of being human and prone to make mistakes. I see people like children and as a child falls and scrapes it's knee it doesn't cost me anything to give some sympathy and comfort if nothing else......because if life has Taught me anything over and over itâs thatâs it unpredictable and when the Russian roulette stops on my spot because of my own actions the least thing I want to have is a person there telling me that Iâm getting what I deserve! Would you? Donât you think most people undermost situations already know itâs their fault?

you may think and judge as you like...i hope you never have to stand in front of someone that judges you with that same stick. I'm not in a pedestal nor do i look at people in my life that way....we are all human beings and I treat everyone as such. Humanity is not a word but a way of living.

Is not like we arenât going to have to take care of them one way or another anyway! Freaking think logically! Itâs ok to step out of yourselves from time to time so you may have a better view of the situationâ¦.i just realize what could be one of the reason why the government have open Fema camps in all statesâ¦.itâs for the coming onslaught of homeless people that are going to be coming down the drain like waterâ¦.think about it there arenât enough apartments or shelters for the millions that what are losing their house and not add to that the slow down of the job market, inflation, gas prices, and a devalue dollar and itâs a mix for disaster canât you see it? Ask yourself how many paychecks are you away from being homeless? How long can you really survive right now if you lost your job and had no government help? Now compare your situation to the people around you and ask yourselves how many paychecks away your friends, family, and neighbors are from being homeless themselvesâ¦see the picture? Humanity have always survived cause we unitedâ¦.sadly there is none of that left.

Sorry it got long it just get me some time how narrow some point of views are


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

pickapeppa said:


> It seems like they should be required to write a contract at the level of language 50% of the people can understand. In that case, in this country about 20 years ago it used to be 8th grade level. All government program literature needs to be written at that level. Maybe it should be required that all investment and contract literature be written so your average person knows exactly what they're getting themselves into, instead of having to hire someone else for big bucks to interpret it for them.


Maybe the loan papers can be written a la Dr. Suess style.....

Explained in these papers is your loan
That you must read for a new home
If you wish to live in there 
Of the notes you should be aware
If you sign for the loan with the bubble
You will find yourself in trouble
For once signed your lot is cast
And the bank will take your money fast

:viking:


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

reddy said:


> What's all of this about people not having sympathy for them? didn't know they nor I was looking for any I was just telling their story as an example of what happen when you trust the persons your doing Biz with.......further more it's already understood that they made a mistake. so what is the point of saying you feel sorry or not? was that ever a question anyway?
> 
> I hope that the majority of people done feel like you do......Because when SHTF that's exactly how the rest of the world could think of us as a nation and it seems there is no other enjoyment then kicking a dog while is down and we have a line of countries waiting for the chance....specially when some feel that ignorance, not educating yourself before signing or voting, or the way our decisions or lack of them was what put us in this situation, it's our fault for setting up programs to help the world and the people here without ever stopping to think how was all of it going to be paid, we cried out for revenge after 911 we call out for the war, now the war is here and we are bankrupt as a nation, and it's no fault but our own RIGHT?


Are we talking about the housing bubble or world politics?



> By your standards American should get everything that's coming to us. as WE should have know what was going on, we were the ones that voted or lack thereof for our president, congressional bill, economic outlook........so yeap if the world reacts that way to our impending down fall.......going to hell will be better then what awaits us here.


As the saying goes, "We get the government we deserve." Oh, and some of us did and do know what's going on because WE READ THE PAPERWORK.... and the news and economic reports... and yes, it is going to be a hard lesson for the rest of the country once they catch on.




> My grandma always told us growing up that we should always look at people with the same empathy and sympathy one wants afforded to them. Life is a school and not everyone learns at the same rate add to it the imperfections of being human and prone to make mistakes. I see people like children and as a child falls and scrapes it's knee it doesn't cost me anything to give some sympathy and comfort if nothing else......because if life has Taught me anything over and over itâs thatâs it unpredictable and when the Russian roulette stops on my spot because of my own actions the least thing I want to have is a person there telling me that Iâm getting what I deserve! Would you? Donât you think most people undermost situations already know itâs their fault?


An adult with children is not a child. They are supposed to be intelligent enough to read a contract. Falling down and scraping one's knees is a far cry from taking out a loan you can't afford to pay back. Knowing if you can pay for a loan or not is a predictable and calculated exercise. There is nothing unpredictable about it.




> you may think and judge as you like...i hope you never have to stand in front of someone that judges you with that same stick. I'm not in a pedestal nor do i look at people in my life that way....we are all human beings and I treat everyone as such. Humanity is not a word but a way of living.
> 
> Is not like we arenât going to have to take care of them one way or another anyway! Freaking think logically! Itâs ok to step out of yourselves from time to time so you may have a better view of the situationâ¦.i just realize what could be one of the reason why the government have open Fema camps in all statesâ¦.itâs for the coming onslaught of homeless people that are going to be coming down the drain like waterâ¦.think about it there arenât enough apartments or shelters for the millions that what are losing their house and not add to that the slow down of the job market, inflation, gas prices, and a devalue dollar and itâs a mix for disaster canât you see it? Ask yourself how many paychecks are you away from being homeless? How long can you really survive right now if you lost your job and had no government help? Now compare your situation to the people around you and ask yourselves how many paychecks away your friends, family, and neighbors are from being homeless themselvesâ¦see the picture? Humanity have always survived cause we unitedâ¦.sadly there is none of that left.
> 
> Sorry it got long it just get me some time how narrow some point of views are



You say you aren't looking for sympathy in the first paragraph, yet further down you ARE asking for sympathy. You're contradicting yourself.

Yeah, we ARE going to have to take care of them one way or the other and that is exactly what is preventing them from getting any sympathy. They, nor others who are finding themselves in the same situation are not going to get a lot of sympathy from people who have worked and planned hard to make sure they would not find themselves in the same sort of situation. 

We had a chance to buy 5 acres attached to our property and even as much as we wanted it, we knew we could not afford it at the time it was for sale. 

You cannot convince me that the only houses that were for sale when your friends purchased theirs were ALL $350k. And you said they put $125k down on it and now the notes are up to $7k? Frankly, the math sounds off to me. In fact, there are red flags flying on the whole deal and you're telling me that they suspected NOTHING was going to go wrong? I don't believe it.

*Ask yourself how many paychecks are you away from being homeless? *
None. I've hardly any debt and I have assets to cover what I do owe. I also work for myself and manage the financial end of my business. If my business went away tomorrow, I'd go get a job... wherever I could find one.

*How long can you really survive right now if you lost your job and had no government help? *
Um, I'm thinking pretty much indefinitely. Land is paid for. House is paid for (albeit unfinished) and I got a metric ton of garden space, seeds and equipment.

The housing bubble fiasco has the potential to throw the entire country into a financial nightmare - even those of us who didn't directly contribute to it. Now do you understand why there's no sympathy?


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

I expect to get EXACTLY what I deserve.

I reap what I sow.I live by my decisions. Im responsible for my actions.

I make my life and accept the decisions Ive made and dont whine about em.

And I will take what I get as a reflection of what I have earned by those very actions.

Sorry they made a bad investment.That said,I will stick to my guns. Too bad you cant read a contract and expect it to magically work out,it doesnt.

I have no sympathy for stupidity.Esp. when they are educated fools as opposed to those who truly cant grasp a concept.

And I call a spade a spade,no PC hogwash/touchy feely out of me. Im a stark realist.

They are overextended and lost.Suck it up and get real.Which they still havent done.

BTW I have 15 years of tax money put away.I dont intend to be homeless ever.But then I lived BELOW my means to get into that position.

The evil R words...RESPONSIBILITY and REALITY.


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## reddy (Jul 8, 2007)

No i'm not asking for sympathy nor donations!

my statement weren't suppose to be applied only to my friends situation. that you are prepare is great but you aren't the majority of people and that's the problem. 

The realty bubbles and how it's collapsing directly affects our political and economic outlook that i added all the other variables...well they are facts and should counted.

when the million of people that lived in the city nearest you empty out of supplies where do you think they are coming next?

the child thing was a hypothetical example sorry you misunderstood it was to be taken more as if someone sneezes doesn't cost me much to say bless you, or if someone falls walking down next to me it doesn't cost me much to stop and help them up and ask if they are ok? get the meaning now? They are adult and made their mistake and will pay for it no matter what so what's the point of keep repeating they deserve no sympathy?

Is it that we are all gearing up to decide before the mob mentality hits who are we going to blame for the whole fiasco and who are we going to make pay? when there is no officials left?

anyway we aren't looking at the same things where we drawing our opinions from


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

texican said:


> I cannot post on this subject without sounding like a heartless cruel person.


Phooey!

Bums (poor folks that have made too many bad decisions in life) that didn't have a pot to pooey in, thought that just because someone would give them a home, with a low down payment, that somehow their condition would change, and they could afford something now, that they couldn't afford before.

Kick em out. 

If "I" can afford a home, anyone can. Very simple. Do not consume ANYthing except basic food and water. Work Hard. Save literally every penny. Buy a parcel of land. Build home yourself, scrounge and sweat. Give up everything in your life that interferes with becoming debt free. I built my current home with less than 3K in the bank.

{this thread was just too juicy to resist }


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

JGex said:


> Maybe the loan papers can be written a la Dr. Suess style.....
> 
> Explained in these papers is your loan
> That you must read for a new home
> ...


There is more to a mortgage than the basic common sense. Much of it buried in legal mumbo jumbo.

Just about every broker we've worked with has tried to screw us one way or another. You really need to check their numbers, several times. It isn't customary for most people to double check the work of someone they've hired to do a professional job for them. It's customarily considered insulting. I'll bet many, many people won't check, simply out of politeness.

I agree with the person who mentioned that 50% of americans are below average intelligence. It's true. And you practically need a law degree to read a mortgage contract and understand what it's saying.

Most of the time, the brokers 'explain' these long winded sentences to you in a few short words. Why can't they just write it that way to begin with?

Not sure about the last time you signed one, but they are like 10 pages of legal language, all shoved at you at once when you're pressured to sign now with just a simple explanation for all those words.

Mortgage brokers are high pressure salesmen. No doubt about it. And they often bring up 'cashing out your equity for this that and the other', and 'interest rates could go down too', in regard to ARMs. They always bring up the opposite - it's called overcoming objections. It's their job to talk you into their product, no matter what problem you have with it.

My guess is, most of them are far more educated than the 'less than average' intelligence crowd they were selling to.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

pickapeppa said:


> There is more to a mortgage than the basic common sense. Much of it buried in legal mumbo jumbo.
> 
> Just about every broker we've worked with has tried to screw us one way or another. You really need to check their numbers, several times. It isn't customary for most people to double check the work of someone they've hired to do a professional job for them. It's customarily considered insulting. I'll bet many, many people won't check, simply out of politeness.
> 
> ...


What I've been saying is YOU CAN'T TRUST PEOPLE TO DO THE RIGHT THING. The lenders and realtors are looking out for their own best interest, not yours. If you aren't comfortable with the papers shoved in front of you, DON'T SIGN THEM. Take them home and REVIEW them and then ASK QUESTIONS when you go back.

I've bought 2 houses and 1 business and taken out several loans over the course of my life. I didn't always understand the wording, but I didn't sit there like an idiot nodding to an explanation that was short of good enough to make me understand. I stayed in the office and asked as many questions as I could think of.... "What happens if I default?".... "What happens if I miss some payments?"...... etc, etc, ad nauseum.



> Mortgage brokers are high pressure salesmen. No doubt about it. And they often bring up 'cashing out your equity for this that and the other', and 'interest rates could go down too', in regard to ARMs. They always bring up the opposite - it's called overcoming objections. It's their job to talk you into their product, no matter what problem you have with it.


And it's the borrower's job to do their homework and make an educated decision based on the information at hand. I've been offered ARM loans. I turned every one of them down in lieu of taking the initially higher fixed rate so I wouldn't be caught by any surprises. I made those decisions after I did the research.

The library and book stores are slap full of books on financial subjects. The information is out there and even the banker will explain it fully if you put him on the spot. Anyone who claims they "didn't know" their ARM or sub-prime loan was going to have a balloon payment they couldn't predict is a moron. They're a double-moron if they sign papers out of "politeness."



> My guess is, most of them are far more educated than the 'less than average' intelligence crowd they were selling to.


I agree that some of the people who got sub-prime loans were the victims of predators, but the American public is LAZY. They want people to do the work for them. I refuse to believe that someone who is bringing in $100k a year salary is too stupid to comprehend the terms of a loan... they might need to do a little research before they understand, but like I said, they're LAZY.

And here we are with a lending crisis we will all have to deal with. The fallout from this will affect all of us in one way or the other and the economy will likely tank at least for a while.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

I read every line and we didnt read another until every line was perfectly clear.

They work for ME,and they can jolly well sit there until it is perfectly clear.Simple as that.

You sign something you dont understand or are 'too polite' to ask you get what you deserve.

Car salesman didnt care for me either,sitting there an hour after closing reading every word on the multi multi page contract. TOUGH! 

I protect my self interest and if you cant you can either..

A-Bring someone with you who can
OR
B-Take your chances

If you are foolish enough to believe they have YOUR interests at heart you are very wrong. They have THEIR interests at heart.

People havent learned this yet? Puhleeze!


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

LOL Jgex,you were taking the exact same route I was at the same time!


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