# New format



## Maura

how do I change back to the old format. I hate this.


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## frogmammy

Maura said:


> how do I change back to the old format. I hate this.


Looks to have the same content. Now VERY good for persons with ulcers, it is REALLY blah.

Mon


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## SLFarmMI

No way that I know of. I think we may be stuck with it. I'm hoping that it grows on me but, as of right now, I hate it too. Hopefully, if we give it a chance, we may discover it's better than it appears.


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## SLFarmMI

BTW, does anyone know how to get rid of the ads along the right side of the screen? I didn't have any ads there before the change to the new format. I don't mind the banner ads on the top of the page but the ones down the right side are obnoxious. Any help would be appreciated.


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## AngieM2

I think that you have to be a Supporting Member to get the ability to turn those off. You may want to check the benefits of Supporting Member to see if it's listed. Or ask Austin.


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## SLFarmMI

Well, whatever I did when I was randomly clicking around seems to have done the trick.


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## no really

I'm going to be the strange one, I kinda like the new format. But my work involves enough computer time that learning new formats is pretty normal.


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## Bearfootfarm

I've noticed some of the avatars (for those who have them) appear blurred or pixelated now, and there are strange symbols where punctuation should be in the signatures.


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## HTAdmin

Guys, those of you having issue with the change just need to give it time. I know change is difficult, but given a chance I know you're going to like it. 

IF you're seeing technical issues please start threads on those so we can better keep track of them.


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## Nevada

Maura said:


> how do I change back to the old format. I hate this.


Just so you understand, this isn't a format or theme change. It an entirely new forum software product, where we used to use vBulletin forum software but now we're using XenForo. You can Google for those products to learn more. As Austin suggested, we'll get used to it.


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## Maura

I don't like it on other websites either. Hate the busy down the side.


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## mnn2501

Hate it. Might just signal the end - for me at least.


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## fordy

This new , whatever it is format , is about a management decision , and has NO connection as to what the members might like OR dislike ! This reminds me of the way the military implements 'Improvements' for the troops to use . , fordy


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## Heritagefarm

No big deal. Stuffs in different spots, find it, play with it, all good. Of course, I'm a younger member and also very well versed with a wide variety of platforms, programs, and websites versatility interactions. Also, looks like no more lost posts - autosave is a great feature. Notifications buttons... nice. Sleek, too. A bit foreign - old design was very comforting.


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## Heritagefarm

mnn2501 said:


> Hate it. Might just signal the end - for me at least.


You should really consider staying here just to annoy me. Isn't that a good reason?


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## Darren

Obviously the site isn't generating the bucks the owner wants. The new format does more to monetize the site. It's the internet equivalent of watching a TV show with commercials every five minutes. HT was transformed into a wannabe click bait site.


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## MoBookworm1957

fordy said:


> This new , whatever it is format , is about a management decision , and has NO connection as to what the members might like OR dislike ! This reminds me of the way the military implements 'Improvements' for the troops to use . , fordy


That's about right.


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## mnn2501

Heritagefarm said:


> You should really consider staying here just to annoy me. Isn't that a good reason?


Nope


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## mnn2501

While it's true people don't like change, this is an especially poor "improvement". Unfortunately current owners couldn't care less about the posters. This is just a cash cow for them.


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## painterswife

I don't see one advertisement on my tablet. Pretty spiffy.


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## Fennick

No complaints here, I like it.  Now I don't have to click on the refresh button dozens of times and wait forever just to navigate from one thread to another or to submit a post. I don't see any ads anywhere either.


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## arabian knight

No ads seen here either. Nice.


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## jane2256

Heritagefarm said:


> You should really consider staying here just to annoy me. Isn't that a good reason?


Works for me! hehehe!


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## Belfrybat

I don't see any ads and I like the "recent threads" list on the upper right side. That way I don't have to refresh to see if new posts have been added while I'm on.


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## Steve_S

Don't mind it, although auto-save while posting freezes up BUT it's better than the previous forum software locking up and have the browser recover it constantly... ONE BIG BUGGER ! Cannot edit a post once you post it... THAT IS A BAD FLAW. Oh well, this platform is more "Mobile Device Friendly" and that is what the masses want, so moving along with the herded beasts we go....


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## Steve_S

Belfrybat said:


> I don't see any ads and I like the "recent threads" list on the upper right side. That way I don't have to refresh to see if new posts have been added while I'm on.


Check out the Alerts Function (top right) with a little tweaking that's a nice feature.


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## Irish Pixie

Heritagefarm said:


> No big deal. Stuffs in different spots, find it, play with it, all good. Of course, I'm a younger member and also very well versed with a wide variety of platforms, programs, and websites versatility interactions. Also, looks like no more lost posts - autosave is a great feature. Notifications buttons... nice. Sleek, too. A bit foreign - old design was very comforting.


I'm oldish and I can still deal with it.  The smilies are kinda pathetic tho...

To those whining and threatening to leave a *free* board- bye Felicia.


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## Chris

Hey folks - just wanted to chime in as I saw multiple posts on this. The old software was created over 10 years ago...numerous other websites since have been hacked, user information compromised and honestly quite a bit of time and energy wasted trying to keep it going. Unfortunately software isn't like a quality built table, or tractor, over time keeping it running just comes at a price. The new software allows us to focus on a number of things, and it this was built by the guys who made the loved software we all knew. This is the first step into keeping you guys secure. One of the next steps we are working on is moving to a SSL certificate similar to many financial institutions. 

This was not an easy decision or task to get the site moved over. If you have a specific feature or issue please contact myself or Austin - and I'd be more than happy to look into to the best of my ability.


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## Heritagefarm

Steve_S said:


> Don't mind it, although auto-save while posting freezes up BUT it's better than the previous forum software locking up and have the browser recover it constantly... ONE BIG BUGGER ! Cannot edit a post once you post it... THAT IS A BAD FLAW. Oh well, this platform is more "Mobile Device Friendly" and that is what the masses want, so moving along with the herded beasts we go....


You can't edit posts on this new forum or the previous version? 



Darren said:


> Obviously the site isn't generating the bucks the owner wants. The new format does more to monetize the site. It's the internet equivalent of watching a TV show with commercials every five minutes. HT was transformed into a wannabe click bait site.


What's wrong with advertising? It's how the forum makes money so we all can come here and enjoy the product of everyone's free knowledge and gleanings from personal anecdotes, experience, and knowledge. Sounds fine to me. That said, I don't see any ads on mobile, although the desktop blocked 4 ads. 



mnn2501 said:


> Nope


Darn. I thought for sure that would work. 



mnn2501 said:


> While it's true people don't like change, this is an especially poor "improvement". Unfortunately current owners couldn't care less about the posters. This is just a cash cow for them.


As mentioned before, did you think you were on a charity website?


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## HTAdmin

Guys, I know change is tough, but i promise if you give it time you'll learn to love it.

I started using Xenforo about a year ago when I came to work for Carbon and have found it to be all around better, more intuitive software. 

I ask before you leave you give it a bit and try things out. I know it's something we're all going to like if we give it time. 

If you have any questions please let me know.


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## HermitJohn

I run NO-SCRIPT, ad blocker ultimate, and self destructing cookies. I rarely see ads on any website and block lot hidden tracking scripts. Even if nefarious script manages to track me, they still cant show me ads so it does them no good. If web sites are worried about revenue, they need different buisiness model, I am not going to suffer garbage ads (or hidden tracking scripts) for their benefit. Sell some product or service that somebody wants directly rather than selling spying services to unknown third parties collecting data.

If a website wants to get tough and do like Forbes site that wont let people enter unless they run naked unprotected browser, then I simply dont need that website. Lets see how they do with only a trickle of viewers to their website.


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## HermitJohn

Oh by the way, even though I am not thrilled with the chunky style this forum software uses, its seems better functioning than previous software.


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## mnn2501

Austin said:


> Guys, I know change is tough, but i promise if you give it time you'll learn to love it.


 Sorry, just not worth my time - too bad, cause I've been here almost 10 years now. I quit one other board when they made it less user friendly. Not everyone uses a mobile device and who cares about "secure"? - its a message board, the worst thing that could happen is someone could post as you -- who cares?


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## Heritagefarm

mnn2501 said:


> Sorry, just not worth my time - too bad, cause I've been here almost 10 years now. I quit one other board when they made it less user friendly. Not everyone uses a mobile device and who cares about "secure"? - its a message board, the worst thing that could happen is someone could post as you -- who cares?


I'm using a desktop right now - Safari on a MBP. What problems are you having?


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## arabian knight

mnn2501 said:


> Sorry, just not worth my time - too bad, cause I've been here almost 10 years now. I quit one other board when they made it less user friendly. Not everyone uses a mobile device and who cares about "secure"? - its a message board, the worst thing that could happen is someone could post as you -- who cares?


 Gee I am on my iMac and I see No Ads even with my Ad Blocker turned off. My goodness this is a easy board now to navigate around and see what is going on, real clean cut home page no ads either showing. It is nice to see a nice clean easy to use board even on a desktop.


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## Sumatra

A few years ago it was the carbon media scandal. Then we had troll issues. Now the site's changed. Never mind the formatting.... This forum has absolutely no stability whatsoever!


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## mnn2501

Heritagefarm said:


> I'm using a desktop right now - Safari on a MBP. What problems are you having?


Ads take up over half the screen even though I use adblock (have for years with no issues) Way too much white space in each post (about 3" on the bottom), must login every time even though I check the remember me box.
Win7 and chrome.


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## logbuilder

Another forum that I frequent often went thru the same conversion about 6 months ago. That was the first time I had seen this software. My first impression was yuck. Many of the users complained, revolted and some threatened to leave. The complaining continued for about a month and then it settled down. I've come to like the software and it seems many on that other board also have come to like it.


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## How Do I

I wasn't able to edit posts when I first posted (irritated me too because I had already made a typo), then about a half hour later the edit button started showing up.


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## Nevada

Chris said:


> The old software was created over 10 years ago...numerous other websites since have been hacked, user information compromised and honestly quite a bit of time and energy wasted trying to keep it going. Unfortunately software isn't like a quality built table, or tractor, over time keeping it running just comes at a price. The new software allows us to focus on a number of things, and it this was built by the guys who made the loved software we all knew. This is the first step into keeping you guys secure. One of the next steps we are working on is moving to a SSL certificate similar to many financial institutions.
> 
> This was not an easy decision or task to get the site moved over. If you have a specific feature or issue please contact myself or Austin - and I'd be more than happy to look into to the best of my ability.


I'd like to weigh-in on this, if you don't mind. First, let me emphasize that I'm not an expert on forum software. I've installed forums, and administrated a few for short times, but forum software certainly isn't my primary focus. I've also installed XenForo, and found it to be straightforward and a pleasant admin interface.

I've been aware that HT used vBulletin 3.8 for a very long time. If that was the version you inherited then it was sorely in need of upgrade. But vBulletin doesn't treat its subscribers well. While there's a direct upgrade path for v3.8 to v5, it's not cheap. in fact, I think the upgrade is almost as much as a full install license. I'm aware that you can buy a full XenForo license for about half the cost of the vBulletin upgrade, and XenForo doesn't charge for upgrades -- at least not yet.

VBulletin also hasn't been good about responding to vulnerability reports. I've had clients tell me that there are a huge number of open tickets for security requests. That's not good. It's too bad because vBulletin used to be the premier forum platform. To let a great product like that deteriorate in the name of profit is a shame, and it will cost them in the end.

It seems that every industry has a vendor that thinks it's above market conditions. They don't care what others are doing, and they don't care what others charge. If you want their product then you have to be willing to pay for it, and you have to be willing to put up with the way they do things. That would be vBulletin. I say good riddance.

For proprietary forum software, XenForo is about as good as it gets. It was probably a good choice.

For open source forum software, I've used both phpBB and MyBB in the past. I think phpBB is probably the most popular forum in existence today, but I find the interface to be convoluted and administration is a chore. It also doesn't play well with search engines, so content doesn't always get indexed at Google like it should. MyBB seems to be on the right track though. Compared to phpBB it has a much better user interface and more robust administration. They have a very active development community. MyBB also has a vBulletin 3.8 inspired skin that subscribers really seem to like. I suspect that the time will come when MyBB will give both vBulletin and XenForo a run for their money.


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## Heritagefarm

mnn2501 said:


> Ads take up over half the screen even though I use adblock (have for years with no issues) Way too much white space in each post (about 3" on the bottom), must login every time even though I check the remember me box.
> Win7 and chrome.


Windows 7 is several installments behind now. Is Chrome the latest version? It sounds like mostly problems on your end. You may want to check you cookie settings as well.


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## Darren

Heritagefarm said:


> What's wrong with advertising? It's how the forum makes money so we all can come here and enjoy the product of everyone's free knowledge and gleanings from personal anecdotes, experience, and knowledge. Sounds fine to me. That said, I don't see any ads on mobile, although the desktop blocked 4 ads.
> 
> As mentioned before, did you think you were on a charity website?


Homesteading Today is a virtual community. That is its value because of the people that, in a sense, reside here. This website is worthless without the community of individuals that provide information, bring up questions and respond. Over a period of almost twenty years I've seen virtual communities flourish and some die. The owners care about the website only to the extent that it provides a return on investment.

A virtual community has no guaranteed future any more than a physical community when people and assets relocate.

If we were paid for the value we contributed, I suspect HT would be a marginal investment at best. Charity? Not when you take into consideration the value of the posters' input. It's the owner of HT that's benefiting from charity.


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## Nevada

mnn2501 said:


> Ads take up over half the screen even though I use adblock (have for years with no issues) Way too much white space in each post (about 3" on the bottom), must login every time even though I check the remember me box.
> Win7 and chrome.


I don't see any ads at all. I'm using Windows 10 and Chrome, and I have Adblock Plus disabled. Still no ads.

Since I can't duplicate the issue, I'm wondering if you might have malware.


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## arabian knight

Nevada said:


> I don't see any ads at all. I'm using Windows 10 and Chrome, and I have Adblock Plus disabled. Still no ads.
> 
> Since I can't duplicate the issue, I'm wondering if you might have malware.


 Yes I have not disabled my ad blocker,. but I put it on Pause, and No Ads at all do I see. Switching it back on no ads, leaving it off no ads. So it sure can be some browsers that are not up to date with the latest versions. But then again I am using Safari. LOL Not sure how long Apple is going to continue supporting this version of OS X As I no longer can update to the newest versions. My iMac is now too old to update to any new version of what is now called MacOS.


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## Heritagefarm

Nevada said:


> I don't see any ads at all. I'm using Windows 10 and Chrome, and I have Adblock Plus disabled. Still no ads.
> 
> Since I can't duplicate the issue, I'm wondering if you might have malware.


I'm noticing that the people who aren't seeing ads are the Supporters. That may be the difference. An actual explanation could be obtaining by PMing an admin.



Darren said:


> Homesteading Today is a virtual community. That is its value because of the people that, in a sense, reside here. This website is worthless without the community of individuals that provide information, bring up questions and respond. Over a period of almost twenty years I've seen virtual communities flourish and some die. The owners care about the website only to the extent that it provides a return on investment.
> 
> A virtual community has no guaranteed future any more than a physical community when people and assets relocate.
> 
> If we were paid for the value we contributed, I suspect HT would be a marginal investment at best. Charity? Not when you take into consideration the value of the posters' input. It's the owner of HT that's benefiting from charity.


You can think of it that way. We can also be grateful for the hard work it probably takes to keep the forum running in a safe and effective manner so that people can participate and engage in information and knowledge collection.


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## Nevada

Heritagefarm said:


> I'm noticing that the people who aren't seeing ads are the Supporters.


Interesting observation. That could be.


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## mnn2501

No malware. All other sites work perfectly as did the old version of HT.


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## logbuilder

I just disabled my ad blocker and there are ads.


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## Nevada

logbuilder said:


> I just disabled my ad blocker and there are ads.


Could be that Heritagefarm's theory about supporters may be correct.


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## jwal10

In the last big dust up many of us were grandfathered as supporters, is it still that way? I am posting here to see if I still am. I see no ads. I come in by way of new posts option, there used to be a "my posts" option, I no longer see that. Seemed I needed that to see any post I had posted on as they never showed up again except on "my post". Will have to see if that is still happening. Can't say I like this all bunched up on the left side, see no reason except the recent threads junk at the top right. What is the difference in it and the top line of recent posts other than you have to "click" on it. Can a "my post" option be added there? I also see that when you hit new posts it is across the whole page, can we change that ourselves, somewhere to have it that way all the time. As soon as I click on a thread to look at it, it goes to 1/2 page to the left side. I like the full page and can see the same 10 recent threads by clicking on "recent posts" at the top of the page....James

I see it shows I am a supporter, never paid, ever.


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## Darren

Heritagefarm said:


> You can think of it that way. We can also be grateful for the hard work it probably takes to keep the forum running in a safe and effective manner so that people can participate and engage in information and knowledge collection.


A farmer that wants to make a profit tends to his livestock.


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## Sumatra

I don't have adblock. I have ads. A large rectangular vertical ad on the right, above the "recent threads" thing on the top. A square one that appears below the recent threads box and comes down with me as I scroll. And lastly a large horizontal banner-style one(which is probably 3x the size of normal banner ads I see) right below the posting box at the bottom of every page.

So yes, if you don't see ads, you either have adblock, or the benefits of being a supporting member..


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## painterswife

Then get an ad blocker. They are free. Then nothing to complain about.


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## Bearfootfarm

jwal10 said:


> I come in by way of new posts option, there used to be a "*my posts*" option, I no longer see that.


Hover your cursor over your name at the top and click "My Content" in the drop down menu


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## Heritagefarm

Darren said:


> A farmer that wants to make a profit tends to his livestock.


If you don't like the arrangement you can leave. Unlike livestock.


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## MichaelZ

I am not seeing any ads in this thread. But I am a supporter. My only complaint is that I still can not edit my signature. Also miss the button "Replies" which brought me directly to threads I posted on. But I can now find those with "Watched threads" since posting or replying automatically marks these as watched.


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## HTAdmin

Supporter's don't see ads. It's always been that way. 

If you would like more information on that program please let me know and I will start a discussion with you.


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## SLFarmMI

I'm not seeing ads any more. I'm thinking that maybe my Adblocker just needed a little time to catch up. I do wish there was a way to make the posts go all the way across the screen instead of being shoved off to the left but I can live with it once I get used to it.


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## ceresone

hard to teach a old lady new tricks--have half a page--and tiny print--


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## Sumatra

painterswife said:


> Then get an ad blocker. They are free. Then nothing to complain about.


My post wasn't a complaint, thank you very much. It was explanation to posters who weren't sure why some people were getting ads and others weren't. If I'd wanted to get an ad blocker, I would have done so a long time ago.


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## HermitJohn

ceresone said:


> hard to teach a old lady new tricks--have half a page--and tiny print--


I forget sometimes, I have a Firefox extension that automatically makes page big as possible without forcing me to move side to side. So I have page at 150% normal size. I just put it at 100% and yep, print is tiny. The extension is called Zoom Page. I got to using it when I got those two mini laptops with 11.6inch screen, but also put it on my desktop.

You can also set the minimum font size in browser itself, though this tends to end up with jumbled text as it tries to put large font text in same space as it allowed the normal small font text.

In Firefox without Zoom Page, you can also just push the ctrl key and the + key over and over until its the size you want, but you will have to do it each and ever time.

I dont use Chrome or the M$ browsers so dont know if they have extensions. Nearly all browsers will let you manually set a minimum font I think.

Edit: I just set Zoom Page to 200% and it expanded posts to stretch clear across the page as default. The junk stuff on other half of the page just moves down below the posts.

Edit2: I set it to 300% and now I get Readers Digest Senior size super large print, but the forum software still shows it without me needing to scroll side to side. Ok the software gets a big thumbs up for this. I know the old software would forced me to scroll side to side with this big of a font.


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## HermitJohn

Here is what Ceresone post looks like in my browser window:


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## ed/La

I could almost care less about the change except the box at bottom of page to quickly jump to what ever forum category you want. No big deal though. I just used that feature in the past.


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## Chris

ed/La said:


> I could almost care less about the change except the box at bottom of page to quickly jump to what ever forum category you want. No big deal though. I just used that feature in the past.


Click this button.


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## jwal10

IF nothing else, post numbers are up....James


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## Darren

Heritagefarm said:


> If you don't like the arrangement you can leave. Unlike livestock.


I've been here since the Lusenet days when the forum was an appendage of Countryside. The messages then and now are the important stuff. The window dressing is just that no matter what software was or is used now. We're distracted by window dressing when the messages are the core.

As a species we're easily distracted by plastics and shiny stuff. Software is no exception. S/W changes that constantly put us on a learning curve is a drain of energy that could be put to better use.

We responded to a recent vehicle fire. By the time we got there only the tires were left burning. Everything else was gone. All of the "plastic" stuff was gone. The wiring insulation was gone leaving copper strands. Any aluminum parts like the engine heads were gone. The car had bad bones. The framework was amazingly insubstantial. No one was impressed by the main structure of the car. I shouldn't have been shocked when I saw that the SUV was a Lincoln from a remaining hubcaps. Detroit sells crap with lots of window dressing. Same with software. The messages, meaning the community, are still the core. I'm not impressed by plastic and shiny stuff in cars or software.

Livestock eventually gets slaughtered. Whether you acknowledge it or not, you're being farmed too.


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## Wanda

Maybe you need to send letters by mail that are written in cursive. Things evolve over time to do more efficiently. Most folks quit using quill pens and use more modern versions of communication. I was also a lusenet forum user and I will guarantee you it was nothing like the last forum software and yet we all survived the change.


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## MichaelZ

I am liking the "alerts", now that I know what they are for.


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## The_Colonel

SLFarmMI said:


> BTW, does anyone know how to get rid of the ads along the right side of the screen? I didn't have any ads there before the change to the new format. I don't mind the banner ads on the top of the page but the ones down the right side are obnoxious. Any help would be appreciated.



Not sure what browser you use, but if you use Firefox by chance, there is a nifty little addon ( https://adblockplus.org/ ) that will squash them for you. I've been using that for about 5-10? years now...


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## The_Colonel

Heritagefarm said:


> You should really consider staying here just to annoy me. Isn't that a good reason?



Very good reason if you ask me.


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