# Baltimore to pay Freddie Gray's family $6.4 million to settle c



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

[SIZE=+1]*Baltimore to pay Freddie Gray's family $6.4 million to settle civil claims*[/SIZE]
*The Baltimore Sun ^ * | 09/08/2015 | Yvonne Wenger 


The Rawlings-Blake administration plans to pay Freddie Gray's family $6.4 million as a settlement for civil claims in his arrest and death &#8212; an extraordinary payment in a lawsuit against city police. 
The settlement &#8212; which is expected to be approved at Wednesday's meeting of the city's spending panel &#8212; will be paid out over two years, according to the mayor's office. The five-member board is controlled by Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake. 
The payment is larger than the total of more than 120 other lawsuits brought against the police department for alleged brutality and misconduct since 2011. 
Gray, 25, died in April after sustaining a severe spinal cord injury in police custody. In the hours after his funeral, the city erupted into rioting, arson and looting. The National Guard was called in to help restore order, and a citywide curfew was put in place. 
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-boe-20150908-story.html

They should use some of it to pay the store owners for some of the damages that were done.
That is a huge settlement.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

This is a horrible, dangerous, expensive precedent for the City to be setting, IMO. The taxpayers are the ones paying the tab.

And of course the same Mayor who ordered the police to stand down and let thugs destroy the city (excuse me, stand aside & give them room to have their tantrum, burn buildings, destroy property, rob, etc) is now robbing the people of Baltimore again by forcing their taxes to pay an obnoxious settlement to the family of a career criminal. 

Sad all around.....


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

bluemoonluck said:


> This is a horrible, dangerous, expensive precedent for the City to be setting, IMO. The taxpayers are the ones paying the tab.
> 
> And of course the same Mayor who ordered the police to stand down and let thugs destroy the city (excuse me, stand aside & give them room to have their tantrum, burn buildings, destroy property, rob, etc) is now robbing the people of Baltimore again by forcing their taxes to pay an obnoxious settlement to the family of a career criminal.
> 
> Sad all around.....


Typical of democrat politicians. Throw money at the problem. I'd wager gray wasn't worth $500 in assets when he died and showed no promise of ever being worth anything.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Blue Moon we agree on this one. 
It's not fair that the very people that we abused now will pay for this settlement. 
Obviously the cops that abused FG and their chain of command should be the ones to personally pay.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

AmericanStand said:


> Blue Moon we agree on this one.
> It's not fair that the very people that we abused now will pay for this settlement.
> Obviously the cops that abused FG and their chain of command should be the ones to personally pay.


Um...have those cops been convicted of ANYTHING yet?


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

poppy said:


> Um...have those cops been convicted of ANYTHING yet?


Since when are settlements made before post trial and this is just a pre-assumption that he is guilty? Now, what about picking a jury after the verdict is already made? Where is justice? The timing here is very odd.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

In the manner of all short sighted politicians, they'll do whatever they can to curry favor with voters, and the voters in this case don't realize they're the ones paying for it. It doesn't seem to matter no guilt has been determined on the cop's part.

I'm sure glad I won't be anywhere near Baltimore when the cops are found not guilty.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gapeach said:


> Since when are settlements made before post trial and this is just a pre-assumption that he is guilty? Now, what about picking a jury after the verdict is already made? Where is justice? The timing here is very odd.


Your link in the OP is a forum post. I guess now we know where you hang out and where your "news" comes from..... 


It's pretty obvious they are trying to save the cops and the PD. They wouldn't settle unless they knew they were going to lose. 

This kind of speaks for itself: 



> The payment is larger than the total of *more than 120 other lawsuits *brought against the police department for alleged brutality and misconduct since 2011.


http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-boe-20150908-story.html

Geezo this isn't even the first time they have had to do this! 



> The city paid out $6 million about a decade ago to a man who become paralyzed from the neck down as the result of a police van ride. A jury had awarded Jeffrey Alston $39 million in 2004 case, but the amount was reduced through the city settlement.
> In another case, the state Court of Special Appeals reduced a $7.4 million jury award to the family of Dondi Johnson Sr. to $219,000. Johnson was paralyzed, and died two weeks later, after a 2005 police van ride that fractured his neck.


Have they been investigated yet by the DOJ?

This actually seems pretty reasonable: 


> "The proposed settlement agreement going before the Board of Estimates should not be interpreted as a judgment on the guilt or innocence of the officers facing trial," the mayor said in a statement. "This settlement is being proposed solely because it is in the best interest of the city, and avoids costly and protracted litigation that would only make it more difficult for our city to heal and potentially cost taxpayers many millions more in damages."


And then we get to the real crux of the matter: 


> Because the civil case was likely to land in federal court â *where it would not be subject to a state cap on payouts* â Young believed the settlement was prudent, Davis said. "It was in the best interest of taxpayers of the city to work with the family to settle case," Davis said.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

From this info we know that 121 lawsuits have been brought against the Balt PD since 2011. The question is...will this big settlement will be enough pain for the city, mayor, and PD to learn a lesson from it and change their policies, procedures, and internal controls? 

Nah, probably not.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

poppy said:


> Um...have those cops been convicted of ANYTHING yet?



Of course not settlements are made to prevent trials. 

Personally I think settlements and plea bargains should be a crime.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> Your link in the OP is a forum post. I guess now we know where you hang out and where your "news" comes from.....
> 
> http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-boe-20150908-story.html
> :


Where is the link in the OP a forum post??

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-boe-20150908-story.html
There is not one word in the OP that comes from a forum. It is word for word from the article from the Baltimore Sun. I know you are trying to find something critical like your hateful post.
"now we know where you hang out and where your "news" comes from..... " As far as I know, as long as I have the link to the Baltimore Sun, it does not matter where I get there. 

It is also none of you business where I read. I don't think you asked anyone if you can bring your links to all of that White Supremist stuff to this board.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Yea I will never understand how the tax payers owe this burden.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wiscto said:


> Yea I will never understand how the tax payers owe this burden.



It is our punishment for electing the best government money can buy.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

AmericanStand said:


> It is our punishment for electing the best government money can buy.


Ouch.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gapeach said:


> Since when are settlements made before post trial and this is just a pre-assumption that he is guilty? Now, what about picking a jury after the verdict is already made? Where is justice? The timing here is very odd.


There were (I think) 6 officers charged with *crimes*

The settlement alluded to in the OP is for a *civil* suit


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> There were (I think) 6 officers charged with *crimes*
> 
> The settlement alluded to in the OP is for a *civil* suit


BFF, I realize that but usually the civil trial is after the criminal trial, isn't it. Couldn't this taint the jury?


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Ok, Let's see a show of hands! 

If this had happened to _our_ child, who would not sue?

The rioting has nothing to do with the case.

If the Cops want the criminals to behave, they might want to lead by example.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gapeach said:


> BFF, I realize that but usually the civil trial is after the criminal trial, isn't it. Couldn't this taint the jury?


The burden of proof in civil trials is much lower, and really has little to do with the criminal charges, since it's clear they didn't follow Dept procedure by not strapping him into the van.

I suspect this may be a prelude to many of the criminal charges being dropped altogether


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

gapeach said:


> Since when are settlements made before post trial and this is just a pre-assumption that he is guilty? Now, what about picking a jury after the verdict is already made? Where is justice? The timing here is very odd.



If it goes to trial, they will get more dough.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

This whole thing has a terrible odor of political manipulation about it.
Tomorrow is the date for the criminal trial venue to be decided, the City is set to approve a massive civil settlement for a civil case that has yet to be filed. Is this just a case for Mosby and buying off her problems for her own interests? How did they arrive at this amount of damages?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

gapeach said:


> Where is the link in the OP a forum post??
> 
> http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-boe-20150908-story.html
> There is not one word in the OP that comes from a forum. It is word for word from the article from the Baltimore Sun. I know you are trying to find something critical like your hateful post.
> ...


A new Mod Squad member maybe?


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

plowjockey said:


> Ok, Let's see a show of hands!
> 
> If this had happened to _our_ child, who would not sue?
> 
> ...


Well. I would go after them, there's no doubt. I'm just not sure that taking money from the taxpayers (including members of my own neighborhood) would be the way I would go. I would not settle. I would ask for the removal of the entire leadership of the police force, at least the station those officers reported to. At most, I would take that 6 million dollars and offer it back to the city if they use it to begin a body camera program.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Who says crime doesn't pay
You just have the right politicians in your corner, racist, bigoted, corrupt politicians....you know the ones......
President Trump will clean out the snake nest of corruption :cowboy:


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> A new Mod Squad member maybe?


Really not a new member, I don't think, but she sure does not seem to like me. So sorry, that makes me so sad. Not!:yawn:


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

gapeach said:


> This whole thing has a terrible odor of political manipulation about it.
> Tomorrow is the date for the criminal trial venue to be decided, the City is set to approve a massive civil settlement for a civil case that has yet to be filed. Is this just a case for Mosby and buying off her problems for her own interests? * How did they arrive at this amount of damages?*


Do you seriously think, that depending on the outcome of the trial - the plaintiffs won't get paid in a civil trial?

It's has already been determined that he likely did not break his own neck.

they probably figured If they gave 6 million, they probably figured the jury would award 12, or maybe 24.

When it comes to monetary awards, what is fair, is in the eye of the beholder.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

With this kind of criminal background, he should have been put away for a long, long time. He never should have been on the streets.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

plowjockey said:


> Ok, Let's see a show of hands!
> 
> If this had happened to _our_ child, who would not sue?
> 
> ...


I agree with what you're saying here. But, I'd like to know how much money is being stripped away from the personal assets of the people found liable on the suit. Cause that's different to me than a settlement being financed out of the cities budget or liability insurance or similar.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

plowjockey said:


> If it goes to trial, they will get more dough.


This settlement has nothing to do with the* criminal* charges, and there will be no trial for the civil charges, which is the entire point of a "settlement".


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> A new Mod Squad member maybe?


Don't you realize you're doing the same thing with those comments?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Was there a civil trial. Nothing should be done until then, well, unless we have lawlessness.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

I wonder what they based the figure on. Loss of future earnings? Bereavement? Was there any real value to this cretin to begin with?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

gapeach said:


> BFF, I realize that but usually the civil trial is after the criminal trial, isn't it. Couldn't this taint the jury?


You think they are going to get a fair trial in that town?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Don't you realize you're doing the same thing with those comments?


Nope
I just get tired of the MS telling us what to post, and when and where.
Last I checked, my opinion was still legal


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Ozarks Tom said:


> I wonder what they based the figure on. Loss of future earnings? Bereavement? Was there any real value to this cretin to begin with?


He was a professional drug dealer, so he could have made some serious money


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

poppy said:


> I'd wager gray wasn't worth $500 in assets when he died and showed no promise of ever being worth anything.


So is $500 the value you place on Gray's life?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Maybe there should be costs figured in his previous actions, the drug dealing and manufacture, has costs to people.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

no really said:


> Maybe there should be costs figured in his previous actions, the drug dealing and manufacture, has costs to people.


How many people do you suppose died either directly or indirectly because of this creep?
How many lives did he help ruin?
Drug dealers are the lowest form of life in my opinion.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> So is $500 the value you place on Gray's life?


How much would you pay for a drug dealer/career criminal?


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> You think they are going to get a fair trial in that town?


No, I don't.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Nevada said:


> So is $500 the value you place on Gray's life?


No. The ones complaining think he should just be dead because he was a drug dealer. No matter what was done to him in custody.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> How much would you pay for a drug dealer/career criminal?


Put yourself in their position, it just doesn't seem that a black life is a very big deal. That's why there's a Black Lives Matter movement.

I don't know how to put a monetary value on a life either, but I agree that the death of a black person isn't as big of a deal in this country as it should be.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> No. The ones complaining think he should just be dead because he was a drug dealer. No matter what was done to him in custody.


I don't think he should be dead, but honestly he was not that valuable to society. He was a detriment to his community and the families he impacted with his actions. Now if that settlement was spread out among the families his actions touched maybe. 

But just a opinion from someone who has seen firsthand the destruction of families touched by heroin and the hard drugs.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Put yourself in their position, it just doesn't seem that a black life is a very big deal. That's why there's a Black Lives Matter movement.
> 
> I don't know how to put a monetary value on a life either, but I agree that the death of a black person isn't as big of a deal in this country as it should be.


Get past the rhetoric and politics.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> No. The ones complaining think he should just be dead because he was a drug dealer. No matter what was done to him in custody.


I personally think drug dealing should be a hanging offense.
I'm not saying let the cops off, they screwed up, but let's not paint Freddie as a great guy. 
He was a criminal, a drug dealer, lowest of all low lifes, not some hero like the cop haters are painting him.
Let's keep some perspective.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Put yourself in their position, it just doesn't seem that a black life is a very big deal. That's why there's a Black Lives Matter movement.
> 
> I don't know how to put a monetary value on a life either, but I agree that the death of a black person isn't as big of a deal in this country as it should be.


The death of a career criminal, a drug dealer is no big loss.
Has nothing to do with the color of his skin despite what you race baiters say.
If he was white, you wouldn't even care, you would never have heard of him.
Just another junkie.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

no really said:


> I don't think he should be dead, but honestly he was not that valuable to society. He was a detriment to his community and the families he impacted with his actions. Now if that settlement was spread out among the families his actions touched maybe.
> 
> But just a opinion from someone who has seen firsthand the destruction of families touched by heroin and the hard drugs.


Honestly, I think the left hand of this "government" likes the drugs that are strangling our country.
Drugs provide them with poverty, crime and votes, all the things that make the left tick.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Many politicians think drugs is no big deal too.


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## TraderBob (Oct 21, 2010)

Not one penny should be paid to the family of the criminal thug FG, unless his family uses EVERY SINGLE PENNY to restore the businesses and properties of the INNOCENT citizens who suffered.

As far as I am concerned, $500 is too high of a valuation to place on that waste of skin. I have no sympathy for him, or his family. Been there with a close relative, he got what he was asking for by his life choices. He wasn't worth a penny either. It wasn't marijuana boys and girls..and every dealer of narcotics should face the firing squad, noose, or bullet.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Of course the rioters and looters won't be held financially responsible for the damage they did.
Not in this racist country.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> I personally think drug dealing should be a hanging offense.
> I'm not saying let the cops off, they screwed up, but let's not paint Freddie as a great guy.
> He was a criminal, a drug dealer, lowest of all low lifes, not some hero like the cop haters are painting him.
> Let's keep some perspective.


I understand that a human life just doesn't mean to many people what it means to me. 

I don't think that Freddie Gray was a great guy, or even a good guy, but he was a human being and didn't deserve the death he had.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I don't think he deserved the death he got but neither does his family deserve the huge payout. Two wrongs do not make a right. The cops if convicted should pay their debt in prison, not a great place for a cop.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> I'm not saying let the cops off, they screwed up, but let's not paint Freddie as a great guy.
> He was a criminal, a drug dealer, lowest of all low lifes, not some hero like the cop haters are painting him.
> Let's keep some perspective.


How do cops who commit murder rate compared to drug dealers?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> I understand that a human life just doesn't mean to many people what it means to me.
> 
> I don't think that Freddie Gray was a great guy, or even a good guy, but he was a human being and didn't deserve the death he had.


I value human life, and yeah, I don't think Gray should have died the way he did.
I don't understand why some people are making him out to be a hero when he was pond scum.
Like I said, if he had been white, there would have been no story, no interest, no riots, no trial.
This dirtbag's death was used to inflame the already inflamed, a tool to further divide the races, and another knife in the back of our nation's police.
It was political


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> How do cops who commit murder rate compared to drug dealers?


About the same.
See?
you don't have to defend one garbage bag to dislike another :cowboy:


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

no really said:


> I don't think he deserved the death he got but neither does his family deserve the huge payout. Two wrongs do not make a right. The cops if convicted should pay their debt in prison, not a great place for a cop.


There are consequences for what is done. Freddie Gray was murdered, and Baltimore had to pay for what it's employees did.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> I understand that a human life just doesn't mean to many people what it means to me.
> 
> I don't think that Freddie Gray was a great guy, or even a good guy, but he was a human being and didn't deserve the death he had.


Do you think the police being murdered deserve to die?
Do their lives matter, even though they aren't black?
Or is it racist to ask?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> Do you think the police being murdered deserve to die?
> Do their lives matter, even though they aren't black?
> Or is it racist to ask?


We're talking about Freddie Gray, aren't we?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> There are consequences for what is done. Freddie Gray was murdered, and Baltimore had to pay for what it's employees did.


I agree they need to pay, than pay that outrageous amount to fund drug treatment centers and ER's that have to deal with the aftermath of drug dealers. Keep that money where it belongs, helping the victims.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> I value human life, and yeah, I don't think Gray should have died the way he did.
> I don't understand why some people are making him out to be a hero when he was pond scum.
> Like I said, if he had been white, there would have been no story, no interest, no riots, no trial.
> This dirtbag's death was used to inflame the already inflamed, a tool to further divide the races, and another knife in the back of our nation's police.
> It was political


Where has anyone here said Freddie Gray was a hero? Or even a good guy?

I don't think it matters what color you are when you're killed in custody. Dead means someone is going to pay. 

How was it political?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> We're talking about Freddie Gray, aren't we?


Yes, we are talking about a career criminal who should have been in prison, not out pushing poison to kids.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

no really said:


> I agree they need to pay, than pay that outrageous amount to fund drug treatment centers and ER's that have to deal with the aftermath of drug dealers. Keep that money where it belongs, helping the victims.


That's not how the system works, money is paid to the victim's family. I don't make the rules, and I'd rather see the money go where it would do some good too.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Where has anyone here said Freddie Gray was a hero? Or even a good guy?
> 
> I don't think it matters what color you are when you're killed in custody. Dead means someone is going to pay.
> 
> How was it political?


The riots suggest he was more than a lowlife junkie dope peddler.
Like I said, if he was white, you'd have never heard of him, and that's where political comes in.
How many "delegates" did Obama send to his funeral?
I seem to remember Obama speaking when Gray died.
It is political , you can admit it or not


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> Yes, we are talking about a career criminal who should have been in prison, not out pushing poison to kids.


So he should have been killed while in police custody? Bottom line is the man was a human being.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> That's not how the system works, money is paid to the victim's family. I don't make the rules, and I'd rather see the money go where it would do some good too.


Are the cop's family going to get money from Sharpton, Obama and the rest who promoted their murder?
I'd guess not.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> So he should have been killed while in police custody? Bottom line is the man was a human being.


Nope, he shouldn't have
No reason to treat him like he was somebody other than what he was.
Just another body for the left to stand on while pushing their race war.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> The riots suggest he was more than a lowlife junkie dope peddler.
> Like I said, if he was white, you'd have never heard of him, and that's where political comes in.
> How many "delegates" did Obama send to his funeral?
> I seem to remember Obama speaking when Gray died.
> It is political , you can admit it or not


Thanks you. I just wanted to see if you would blame Obama for something out of his purview, yet again.  

Like I said before- black, white, yellow, red, brown whatever if you die in custody there is almost certain to be a payout.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> That's not how the system works, money is paid to the victim's family. I don't make the rules, and I'd rather see the money go where it would do some good too.


So the system pays out big money to families of predators, but his victims will continue to suffer and die? Who is getting this huge windfall and why? Other than the nice amount the hotshot lawyer is getting. 

Does this effect or improve training in the PD? Nay, the only thing that would help is a deep housecleaning and prison time from top to bottom. Cause that payout won't do a dang thing to improve their ranks.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Thanks you. I just wanted to see if you would blame Obama for something out of his purview, yet again.
> 
> Like I said before- black, white, yellow, red, brown whatever if you die in custody there is almost certain to be a payout.


Obama is at least partly to blame and you know it.
This is his race war, and for once in his miserable life, he should be a man and admit responsibility, but he won't because he's not.
Sharpton too for that matter.
Do you know how many times Sharpton and Obama have met?
Do you know Soros financed the riots?
Nope, you don't know because you don't want to know.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> Obama is at least partly to blame and you know it.
> This is his race war, and for once in his miserable life, he should be a man and admit responsibility, but he won't because he's not.
> Sharpton too for that matter.
> Do you know how many times Sharpton and Obama have met?
> ...


I know nothing of the sort. As this is veering right into "daft town" I'll bow out, at least for now.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

gibbsgirl said:


> I agree with what you're saying here. But, I'd like to know how much money is being stripped away from the personal assets of the people found liable on the suit. Cause that's different to me than a settlement being financed out of the cities budget or liability insurance or similar.


If they are like everybody else, they have little or nothing. They are NOT going to have $6 million dollars.

Just like any other lawsuit, it's _deep pockets_, they go after.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> This settlement has nothing to do with the* criminal* charges, and there will be no trial for the civil charges, which is the entire point of a "settlement".


I meant a civil trial. It should not have been that hard to figure that out, when the city settles up front.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

no really said:


> So the system pays out big money to families of predators, but his victims will continue to suffer and die? Who is getting this huge windfall and why? Other than the nice amount the hotshot lawyer is getting.
> 
> Does this effect or improve training in the PD? Nay, the only thing that would help is a deep housecleaning and prison time from top to bottom. Cause that payout won't do a dang thing to improve their ranks.


I don't have any say in the court system. Time will tell about improved training. I think a huge payout will improve it. 

And I'm loathe to call a drug dealer a "predator". No is forced to buy and use drugs. I wouldn't say victim either.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> I don't have any say in the court system. Time will tell about improved training. I think a huge payout will improve it.
> 
> And I'm loathe to call a drug dealer a "predator". No is forced to buy and use drugs. I wouldn't say victim either.


There have been ridiculous payouts before, yep things are better. This kind of thing has just created an industry for lawyers.. 

As to a predator maybe should call him a vampire, his kind suck the life out of families and communities.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

no really said:


> There have been ridiculous payouts before, yep things are better. This kind of thing has just created an industry for lawyers..
> 
> As to a predator maybe should call him a vampire, his kind suck the life out of families and communities.


Like I said, time will tell. Neither of us have a crystal ball, eh? 

Vampire doesn't work either because the people that buy from him are willing. Unless someone has been bound and injected with drugs their drug usage is by choice. There have been a few drug addicts in my family but it's riddled with alcoholics. All of them drink, or have drunk, solely by their own choice.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> Like I said, time will tell. Neither of us have a crystal ball, eh?
> 
> Vampire doesn't work either because the people that buy from him are willing. Unless someone has been bound and injected with drugs their drug usage is by choice. There have been a few drug addicts in my family but it's riddled with alcoholics. All of them drink, or have drunk, solely by their own choice.


They may be willing and weak but can you say they were all adults? Sorry I've seen up close and personal what drugs like heroin can do to a family and the people around them.. 

He was a disgusting excuse for a human, profiting off the weak.

IMHO


----------



## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Somebody said it here earlier, two wrongs don't make a right. 

It doesn't matter what his history was, Gray should not have gotten his neck broke in police custody. We authorize the cops to bring people in to face justice in court, not dole out their own justice. That's why they are paid officers of the law, not vigilantes. We should support the good cops and punish the bad ones, with equal enthusiasm. 

And a settlement payout does NOT punish a city like it would a business or individual. It's taking money from the taxpayers, they are the ones being punished for what others did. That isn't right, either. 

It will be a very telling sign of character from Gray's family if they upgrade their house/car/wardrobe with that money, or if they use it to help other people from ending up like Gray. The root of his problems seemed to be drug addiction, will they sponsor people to go to rehab or do anything for the greater good with that money? 

It's an epic fail, all the way around. Gray should have already been in jail, he'd be alive and well today if he had gotten an appropriate sentence for all those "distribution" charges. (A guy in MO got a life sentence for 3 charges dealing pot under 3 strikes you're out. He was recently pardoned after 20-some years served.) 

The cops should have never given him the "nickel ride" or whatever they did to let him break his neck. And the family shouldn't have extorted money from the taxpayers.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

no really said:


> They may be willing and weak but can you say they were all adults? Sorry I've seen up close and personal what drugs like heroin can do to a family and the people around them..
> 
> He was a disgusting excuse for a human, profiting off the weak.
> 
> IMHO


Nope, they weren't all adults. The only drug addicts that I know of (heroin and meth) started when they were 16 or so. Any younger than that (unless there is family money) and they can't afford it. The alcoholics started _young_- in some cases 10-11 but alcohol is cheaper and easier to get. 

No reason to be sorry. I've lived with it, it ain't easy, but not blaming the person with the problem is wrong. It's not the dealer, bartender, or liquor store clerk's fault it's the person with the addiction's fault. Totally. And there's only one person that can stop being addicted.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

No way I don't blame the dealer, kinda think he knew exactly what he was doing..

He preys on mental weakness, is assaulting a mentally ill person OK?


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Ozarks Tom said:


> I wonder what they based the figure on. Loss of future earnings? Bereavement? Was there any real value to this cretin to begin with?



How dare you. 
You don't know the man yet you insult him. 
That proved the man you are and says nothing about him.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Cornhusker said:


> I personally think drug dealing should be a hanging offense.
> 
> I'm not saying let the cops off, they screwed up, but let's not paint Freddie as a great guy.
> 
> ...



Not much on personal responceability are you ?


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> There are consequences for what is done. *Freddie Gray was murdered,* and Baltimore had to pay for what it's employees did.


Proof?


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Drug dealers are the dregs of humanity.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> Not much on personal responceability are you ?


Yep, I am
But then you don't know me, so your opinion is less than worthless. :cowboy:


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

po boy said:


> Proof?


Obama sez so? :hysterical:


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> Not much on personal responceability are you ?


Well, he expects a lot of responsibility from drug dealers, but holding cops to a standard just isn't fair. They can get away with murder -- quite literally.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Well, he expects a lot of responsibility from drug dealers, but holding cops to a standard just isn't fair. They can get away with murder -- quite literally.


Well, I seldom agree with you, but I didn't expect you to jump on the troll wagon and tell blatant untruths about me.
I used to have some respect for you.
But, lefties be lefties I guess :cowboy:
I don't expect anything from drug dealers, except the undeniable fact that most people who choose a life of crime and drugs will meet an unpleasant, probably messy end.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> Well, I seldom agree with you, but I didn't expect you to jump on the troll wagon and tell blatant untruths about me.
> I used to have some respect for you.
> But, lefties be lefties I guess :cowboy:
> I don't expect anything from drug dealers, except the undeniable fact that most people who choose a life of crime and drugs will meet an unpleasant, probably messy end.


It's just that you don't seem to be at all disturbed by a man dying in police custody.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> It's just that you don't seem to be at all disturbed by a man dying in police custody.


I think if the cops killed him, they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Drug dealers are mass murderers, and as I've already said, the lowest form of life, on par with pedophiles.
Sorry, can't bring myself to be sad there's one less out there pushing their poison to kids.
I guess that makes me a bad person.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> I think if the cops killed him, they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
> Drug dealers are mass murderers, and as I've already said, the lowest form of life, on par with pedophiles.
> Sorry, can't bring myself to be sad there's one less out there pushing their poison to kids.
> I guess that makes me a bad person.


OK, so I'm correct. You aren't particularly disturbed that Gray was killed in police custody.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> The cops should have never given him the "nickel ride" or whatever they did to let him break his neck.


I still think the injury occurred when they first tackled him on the street after he ran, since he was obviously injured in those videos made before he was put in the van.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> I know nothing of the sort. As this is veering right into "daft town" I'll bow out, at least for now.


There ya go, the truth doesn't agree with your view so it's just "daft" :hysterical:


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> OK, so I'm correct. You aren't particularly disturbed that Gray was killed in police custody.


It bothers me that he was killed "in custody"
It doesn't bother me that he's gone


----------



## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I still think the injury occurred when they first tackled him on the street after he ran, since he was obviously injured in those videos made before he was put in the van.


even if you are right, you still have the issue that the cops let someone in their care and custody die without giving any medical care. It is still negligent homicide.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> There ya go, the truth doesn't agree with your view so it's just "daft" :hysterical:


If you have an issue with me not getting involved in discussions where you ridiculously blame Obama for everything bad that happens in the US. Too bad. 

I like adult discussion based in reality.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Cornhusker said:


> Yep, I am
> 
> But then you don't know me, so your opinion is less than worthless. :cowboy:



If Freddie grey was a drug dealer he took Responceabity for his life and worked hard at a small business. 
If you believe in personal responceability you can't blame him for the actions of his customers AND you should applaud his work ethic.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> If Freddie grey was a drug dealer he took Responceabity for his life and worked hard at a small business.
> If you believe in personal responceability you can't blame him for the actions of his customers AND you should applaud his work ethic.


I'm happy to find out what kind of person admires drug dealers.
Pretty much the kind of person I thought it was


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> If you have an issue with me not getting involved in discussions where you ridiculously blame Obama for everything bad that happens in the US. Too bad.
> 
> I like adult discussion based in reality.


I don't have an issue, you are free to participate in whatever conversation you like :cowboy:
As for Obama not being the blame, I guess that's his platform, so it's not a surprise you fell for it.
Stock market up? Give Obama the credit
Stock market tanks? Not Obama's fault :hysterical:ound:


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> I don't have an issue, you are free to participate in whatever conversation you like :cowboy:
> As for Obama not being the blame, I guess that's his platform, so it's not a surprise you fell for it.
> Stock market up? Give Obama the credit
> Stock market tanks? Not Obama's fault :hysterical:ound:


Can you please point out where I've said anything of the sort? Please? I believe you'll find that I have said repeatedly that I'm "not an Obama fan." 

I just feel that blaming him for _everything_ remotely bad that happens in the US is patently ridiculous. No, actually it's absurd, total and complete rubbish.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Cornhusker said:


> I'm happy to find out what kind of person admires drug dealers.
> 
> Pretty much the kind of person I thought it was



Lol well ain't we In a mean mood today ? 
Why not discuss the point. ?
As a liberal I applaud those that work to support themselves. 
Since I'm a believer in both personal responceability and free choice I see nothing wrong with his work other than breaking a few nonsense able laws. 

I take it as a believer in a manny state you think his customers should be protected from their choices ?


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol well ain't we In a mean mood today ?
> Why not discuss the point. ?
> As a liberal I applaud those that work to support themselves.
> Since I'm a believer in both personal responceability and free choice I see nothing wrong with his work other than breaking a few nonsense able laws.
> ...


I think a career criminal should be in the pen for life.
Drug dealers are the same type of dirtbag as pedophiles, it doesn't get any lower.
Are you a drug dealer, or a drug user?
That would explain your defense of sleazy people.
You have an odd definition of personal _*responsibility*_.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Can you please point out where I've said anything of the sort? Please? I believe you'll find that I have said repeatedly that I'm "not an Obama fan."
> 
> I just feel that blaming him for _everything_ remotely bad that happens in the US is patently ridiculous. No, actually it's absurd, total and complete rubbish.


I understand you aren't an Obama fan, most intelligent people aren't.
Heck, I know some people who are actually stupid and don't fall for Obama's pack of lies.
Do you deny Obama has taken a stand with the rioters and against the police?
His actions and inactions speak for him.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> I understand you aren't an Obama fan, most intelligent people aren't.
> Heck, I know some people who are actually stupid and don't fall for Obama's pack of lies.
> Do you deny Obama has taken a stand with the rioters and against the police?
> His actions and inactions speak for him.


Don't you think that the "Obama is the anti-christ" rhetoric is heavy handed, over generalized, and just garbage? 

I find that people that paint with an overlarge brush don't have a the capacity to see detail. They only see what they want to believe.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Don't you think that the "Obama is the anti-christ" rhetoric is heavy handed, over generalized, and just garbage?
> 
> I find that people that paint with an overlarge brush don't have a the capacity to see detail. They only see what they want to believe.


Not sure I ever said he was the Anti Christ.
I believe his agenda is not in our best interests
I believe he is a racist, a bigot and has divided this country like it hasn't been divided since the Civil War.
He thinks too much of himself if he thinks he's the Anti-Christ.


----------



## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I still think the injury occurred when they first tackled him on the street after he ran, since he was obviously injured in those videos made before he was put in the van.


I couldn't tell if he was injured, or just passively resisting arrest. Going limp and making them carry you is not at all unusual. But I agree, he wasn't walking at that point. I don't know if medical experts could tell anything from looking at that video or not.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Cornhusker said:


> I think a career criminal should be in the pen for life.
> 
> Drug dealers are the same type of dirtbag as pedophiles, it doesn't get any lower.
> 
> ...




Lol my gf has a hard time getting me to use OTC medications , hate beer seldom enjoy a wine but since my doctor prescribed alcohol I try to drink a shot of jÃ¤ger a day. 
Dont smoke huff or any of those other weird things. 
Do you ?


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Cornhusker said:


> I understand you aren't an Obama fan, most intelligent people aren't.
> 
> Heck, I know some people who are actually stupid and don't fall for Obama's pack of lies.
> 
> ...



Wow you ARE in a mean mood !
You just insulted over half the voters. 
I'm not a Obama fan but I think he has been a outstanding president and will eventually be rated one of the best. 
Lol and I'm willing to set my intellect against yours anytime.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gapeach said:


> Where is the link in the OP a forum post??
> 
> http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-boe-20150908-story.html
> There is not one word in the OP that comes from a forum. It is word for word from the article from the Baltimore Sun. I know you are trying to find something critical like your hateful post.
> ...


I wouldn't know where you read if you didn't post it for me to see now would I?  

Here's your OP. Click the top link and it takes you to the Free Republic Forum. Which is obviously where you got the story from:



gapeach said:


> [SIZE=+1]*Baltimore to pay Freddie Gray's family $6.4 million to settle civil claims*[/SIZE]
> *The Baltimore Sun ^ * | 09/08/2015 | Yvonne Wenger
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gapeach said:


> Really not a new member, I don't think, but she sure does not seem to like me. So sorry, that makes me so sad. Not!:yawn:


I have no personal feelings about you at all. I don't dislike you. I just find your lack of discretion in link and news choices a bit frustrating. Most of your links are clickbait or come from rightwing outrage sources. I thought it was pretty funny that you goofed and posted your forum source on this one rather than the newspaper. It just proves my point about where you find your "news".


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> I understand that a human life just doesn't mean to many people what it means to me.
> 
> I don't think that Freddie Gray was a great guy, or even a good guy, but he was a human being and didn't deserve the death he had.


It's ironic to me how holding human life in high esteem works out in some people's minds. Pre-born human life is 100% sacred. After birth it appears to become worthless pretty quick. 

It's bizarre to see all the people who were foaming at the mouth in the abortion thread saying all life is sacred turn so blood thirsty and vengeful in this one.....


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

no really said:


> So the system pays out big money to families of predators, but his victims will continue to suffer and die? Who is getting this huge windfall and why? Other than the nice amount the hotshot lawyer is getting.
> 
> Does this effect or improve training in the PD? Nay, the only thing that would help is a deep housecleaning and prison time from top to bottom. Cause that payout won't do a dang thing to improve their ranks.



The objective of the big payouts is not actually so his family gains anything, it is in hopes if you hurt the city enough in the wallet they will take these wrongful deaths more seriously and they will change the training, improve police handling of suspects, fire cops who mishandle people etc. Because that is the only way these deaths will be stopped. The City has to yank a knot in the PD's tail.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> The objective of the big payouts is not actually so his family gains anything, it is in hopes if you hurt the city enough in the wallet they will take these wrongful deaths more seriously and they will change the training, improve police handling of suspects, fire cops who mishandle people etc. Because that is the only way these deaths will be stopped. The City has to yank a knot in the PD's tail.


Yeah they need to rethink their training and recruitment policies. But you realize this is insurance payout not the city. 

Why was it paid out before the trial? Seems kinda cart before the horse.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Weird glitch? Nothing showed up from my big long post.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Why was it paid out before the trial? Seems kinda cart before the horse.


It's an emotional issue. The city didn't want any dirty details to be aired in the news. This saved them the embarrassment, and they were going to lose anyway.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

no really said:


> Yeah they need to rethink their training and recruitment policies. But you realize this is insurance payout not the city.
> 
> Why was it paid out before the trial? Seems kinda cart before the horse.


I"ll quote my post from the first page. The city's number one reason was to settle out of court. It saves them money. If the cops are convicted the city will be guaranteed to have to pay out more and the family is far more likely to push to go to trial instead of settling. And this case has a high likelihood of getting a conviction of some sort. The lawyer for the police has been pushing heavily to have the trial moved out of Baltimore. 



Patchouli said:


> http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...908-story.html
> 
> Geezo this isn't even the first time they have had to do this!
> 
> ...


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol my gf has a hard time getting me to use OTC medications , hate beer seldom enjoy a wine but since my doctor prescribed alcohol I try to drink a shot of jÃ¤ger a day.
> Dont smoke huff or any of those other weird things.
> Do you ?


Nope
An occasional beer on a hot day, or maybe a Mike's Black Cherry thing.
I do take some heart medicine, Warfarin, Lipitor, Metatopril, a baby aspirin, things of that nature.


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> I wouldn't know where you read if you didn't post it for me to see now would I?
> 
> Here's your OP. Click the top link and it takes you to the Free Republic Forum. Which is obviously where you got the story from:


What difference does it make? I had all the right information from the Baltimore Sun and it is the original article with the Sun and link article word for word. I have never heard of such nitpicking.

If I want to visit Free Republic or Democratic Underground or any where else, it is nothing to you. I'm sure you visit many liberal rags.


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> I have no personal feelings about you at all. I don't dislike you. I just find your lack of discretion in link and news choices a bit frustrating. Most of your links are clickbait or come from rightwing outrage sources. I thought it was pretty funny that you goofed and posted your forum source on this one rather than the newspaper. It just proves my point about where you find your "news".


It is a free country. I get my news from all kinds of sources and I always put a link. There is no rule on this board that I cannot use whatever source I wish as long as there is no profanity or vulgar language. lf you liberals don't like our sources, so be it. You post your Salon, Daily Kos, Huffpo,Mother Jones,Msnbc.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gapeach said:


> What difference does it make? I had all the right information from the Baltimore Sun and it is the original article with the Sun and link article word for word. I have never heard of such nitpicking.
> 
> If I want to visit Free Republic or Democratic Underground or any where else, it is nothing to you. I'm sure you visit many liberal rags.


Actually no I don't. I have a real problem with the sites that exist just to generate outrage. I don't go to clickbait sites. You won't find me posting links from any of the Liberal minded trash sites. And I don't get my info from them either out of principle.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Cornhusker what is the Mike's black cherry thing like?
Some of the few wines I drink occasionally are very


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Patchouli said:


> It's ironic to me how holding human life in high esteem works out in some people's minds. Pre-born human life is 100% sacred. After birth it appears to become worthless pretty quick.
> 
> It's bizarre to see all the people who were foaming at the mouth in the abortion thread saying all life is sacred turn so blood thirsty and vengeful in this one.....


That's why I call them the pro unborn. Vitriolic is a great word for what I'm seeing from some of the so-called *pro life* contingent.

ETA: I guess ginormous hypocrites works too.


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I just read through the rules again and unless a moderator tells me not to do something and as long as I am not breaking a rule, then if you don't like something that I post or if you want to disparage me because I read at Free Republic then I suggest that you just scroll on by when you see something posted by me that does not meet your standards.:knitting:

I apologize for the long run on sentence.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Patchouli said:


> Actually no I don't. I have a real problem with the sites that exist just to generate outrage. I don't go to clickbait sites. You won't find me posting links from any of the Liberal minded trash sites. And I don't get my info from them either out of principle.


I love the weasel zipper url that some posters use as if it's an actual news site. There are a few more but that one just makes me laugh and shake my head every time one of them links it.


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Unfortunately to those who don't like Weasel Zippers, Drudge, Buzzfeed, Free Republic, & others, many of us do and unless those sites are disapproved by people who have moderator powers, you will contiue to see some posts that come from your unapproved sources. :boring:


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> Cornhusker what is the Mike's black cherry thing like?
> Some of the few wines I drink occasionally are very


If you like sweet stuff try a "Not Your Father's Root Beer." It's an ale base but spiced to taste like root beer. A shot of whipped cream vodka cuts the sweetness and makes it taste like an root bear float. 

I don't drink much but I like one now and again.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gapeach said:


> Unfortunately to those who don't like Weasel Zippers, Drudge, Buzzfeed, Free Republic, & others, many of us do and unless those sites are disapproved by people who have moderator powers, you will contiue to see some posts that come from your unapproved sources. :boring:


I don't understand why you are so upset about this? There are legitimate news sources that major on just reporting the facts. And then there are outrage and clickbait sites that twist the facts into the most outrage inducing mess they can. There are Liberal sites like that and Conservative sites. There are sites that cater to just about every viewpoint. 

I am absolutely against all of them on principle because they foment arguments and anger and hate. They drive us apart. They twist the truth into lies in order to make money. They are genuinely evil and they are destroying this country. 

I am not a moderator and I am not trying to tell you what you can and can not post. But if you post trash and lies I will most definitely point it out and make an effort to combat it with truth. 

And honestly the whining from a few here over the whole thing is a bit disingenuous since you would be the first to point it out if we used HuffPo or Salon or Raw Story.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> If you like sweet stuff try a "Not Your Father's Root Beer." It's an ale base but spiced to taste like root beer. A shot of whipped cream vodka cuts the sweetness and makes it taste like an root bear float.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't drink much but I like one now and again.



I've seen them and I'm a big fan of root beer but at $2 a bottle they seem kinda high.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> I've seen them and I'm a big fan of root beer but at $2 a bottle they seem kinda high.


Live a little and buy a bottle.  If you like things on the sweeter side you'll like it.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

gapeach said:


> Unfortunately to those who don't like Weasel Zippers, Drudge, Buzzfeed, Free Republic, & others, many of us do and unless those sites are disapproved by people who have moderator powers, you will contiue to see some posts that come from your unapproved sources. :boring:


Mods don't care what sites you use as sources but we can't force members to find a source as credible either.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wr said:


> Mods don't care what sites you use as sources but we can't force members to find a source as credible either.


Exactly!


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> Live a little and buy a bottle.  If you like things on the sweeter side you'll like it.



Based on the revues in this thread I stopped at the store where I'd seen the sign for it. 
Apparently they don't stock it and I have to order a case. 
You tell me is it worth $50 for a taste. ? Lol that's more than my normal booze budget for the year!


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> Based on the revues in this thread I stopped at the store where I'd seen the sign for it.
> Apparently they don't stock it and I have to order a case.
> You tell me is it worth $50 for a taste. ? Lol that's more than my normal booze budget for the year!


Here's a locator to find it in your area. http://smalltownbrewery.com/find/

I spend more than $50 a year on wine and sherry for cooking.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol nothing within 50 miles according to the chart but herds of places about 100. 
Strange it doesn't list my local store 20 miles away. Perhaps it high cause they are bootlegging it.?


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

wr said:


> Mods don't care what sites you use as sources but we can't force members to find a source as credible either.


Instead of debating the source, how about just sticking to discussing the info involved. If it's a source that is problematic it should be relatively simple to debunk the info. There are many sites that I find shady, some that are major news sites.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

no really said:


> Instead of debating the source, how about just sticking to discussing the info involved. If it's a source that is problematic it should be relatively simple to debunk the info. There are many sites that I find shady, some that are major news sites.


Sources are used to support the poster's opinion of the topic, and to prove a point. If the source is less than creditable the information usually is as well. 

I rarely use just one source to verify information.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> Sources are used to support the poster's opinion of the topic, and to prove a point. If the source is less than creditable the information usually is as well.
> 
> I rarely use just one source to verify information.


Maybe, but my point is debate the news not the source, easy enough huh? 

The actual source of the info that caused the comments was a newspaper, lots of forums use news sources for discussions. Is the newspaper one that is considered problematic? Hint I didn't even open the forum site listed I opened the newspaper site.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

The media is biased to a certain extent and everybody knows it. The New York Times, LA Times, Washington Post have always been liberally biased. Even their editors have begun to wake up and are not carrying the water for the present administration as much as they did.

Just because someone does not like the source, it does not mean that it is rubbish to everyone.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Since the article was from the Baltimore Sun, I really don't see what the problem was then or now.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

no really said:


> Maybe, but my point is debate the news not the source, easy enough huh?
> 
> The actual source of the info that caused the comments was a newspaper, lots of forums use news sources for discussions. Is the newspaper one that is considered problematic? Hint I didn't even open the forum site listed I opened the newspaper site.


And my point is don't use one source that totally supports your agenda and think that everyone is going to lap up the pablum like you (collective you, I don't think _you_ do this) did. It's always a good idea to verify the information to make sure it's even correct. Some here don't even bother to do that.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> And my point is don't use one source that totally supports your agenda and think that everyone is going to lap up the pablum like you (collective you, I don't think _you_ do this) did. It's always a good idea to verify the information to make sure it's even correct. Some here don't even bother to do that.


The Baltimore Sun is supporting what agenda?

Hehe, might be kinda quiet in here if there were no discussions.:knitting:


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

no really said:


> The Baltimore Sun is supporting what agenda?
> 
> Hehe, might be kinda quiet in here if there were no discussions.:knitting:


You are neither stupid nor agenda driven, and know exactly what I'm talking about. If you (collective you) cherry pick information that supports your agenda and refuse to believe anything else, you and your information are not creditable. 

I'm not going to argue about your support of those that post less than creditable information from even less creditable sources. Have a wonderful day.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> You are neither stupid nor agenda driven, and know exactly what I'm talking about. If you (collective you) cherry pick information that supports your agenda and refuse to believe anything else, you and your information are not creditable.
> 
> I'm not going to argue about your support of those that post less than creditable information from even less creditable sources. Have a wonderful day.


By and large everyone is agenda driven, the only way to address it is rational discussion. Sometimes it is a mistake by not reading content correctly or not reading the complete info. 

There are some in the forums I frequent that I just don't interact with as it would be an exercise in futility. Just continue on to the topic at hand.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake to announce she won't seek re-election*
Baltimore Sun
September 11, 2015

Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, beleaguered by the death of Freddie Gray and the protests and rioting that followed, announced Friday she won't seek re-election.
She said she is stepping out of the race to focus on "work to move our city forward," and not out of any concern she might not win the race against a growing field of challengers.
"It was a very difficult decision, but I knew I needed to spend time, the remaining 15 months of my term, focused on the city's future and not my own," she said at a news conference at City Hall.
Rawlings-Blake, 45, has no plans to seek another office. She briefed her Cabinet and staff on the decision this morning.
She spent recent months ramping up her campaign by building a field organization in the city, hosting fundraisers and courting voters with events such as "Mondays with the Mayor" at local bars and restaurants. But sources familiar with her decision said she felt it would be inappropriate to ask donors for money while the city copes with the aftermath of the April riots.
City leaders and police have meanwhile been readying for the possibility or more unrest. The first trial in the Gray case is scheduled for Oct. 13, though that date could change, and a judge ruled Thursday the cases would move forward in Baltimore courts. The officers involved face charges ranging from second-degree murder to assault and misconduct in office. more
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-rawlings-blake-20150911-story.html

That's good news for Baltimore............She has made a big fall from grace.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

no really said:


> Instead of debating the source, how about just sticking to discussing the info involved. If it's a source that is problematic it should be relatively simple to debunk the info. There are many sites that I find shady, some that are major news sites.


I do debunk her stories pretty routinely. I am tired of doing it though and I wouldn't have to if she would just read legitimate sources and she wouldn't post 20 threads a day from nutjob websites. And honestly she is just hurting herself getting all wound up about nonsense.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

And just to be clear I don't use a poor source as an excuse to blow off a post. If you post a link I will go and read it. Even if it is the latest drivel from Glenn Beck or Breitbart.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> I do debunk her stories pretty routinely. I am tired of doing it though and I wouldn't have to if she would just read legitimate sources and she wouldn't post 20 threads a day from nutjob websites. And honestly she is just hurting herself getting all wound up about nonsense.


Well you did what you felt needed to be done beyond that whatever source a person uses unless the mods feel the need to ban that source, it is beyond other posters control. 

Me I kinda enjoy reading some ideas that differ from mine. Heck I read al jazeera, not the English edition, I like to see the vast ideas out there..and some other sources that are pretty unsettling


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> I do debunk her stories pretty routinely. I am tired of doing it though and I wouldn't have to if she would just read legitimate sources and she wouldn't post 20 threads a day from nutjob websites. And honestly she is just hurting herself getting all wound up about nonsense.


Who are you talking about?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

no really said:


> Well you did what you felt needed to be done beyond that whatever source a person uses unless the mods feel the need to ban that source, it is beyond other posters control.
> 
> Me I kinda enjoy reading some ideas that differ from mine. Heck I read al jazeera, not the English edition, I like to see the vast ideas out there..and some other sources that are pretty unsettling


I like reading different perspectives too. But if I share something on here I look for the most unbiased fact based story I can find. Then everyone can look at whatever other commentary or sources they like to branch out from the basics. 

Al Jazeera does some pretty solid reporting. I like looking at foreign sources because they don't have the same bias and angles we have here. You tend to get a very different look at a story from people outside of America.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> I like reading different perspectives too. But if I share something on here I look for the most unbiased fact based story I can find. Then everyone can look at whatever other commentary or sources they like to branch out from the basics.
> 
> Al Jazeera does some pretty solid reporting. I like looking at foreign sources because they don't have the same bias and angles we have here. You tend to get a very different look at a story from people outside of America.


I am assuming that you are talking about me. Just what sources and links are you talking about that I have posted? I really don't like being discussed in the 3rd person when I read something like this.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gapeach said:


> I am assuming that you are talking about me. Just what sources and links are you talking about that I have posted? I really don't like being discussed in the 3rd person when I read something like this.


You have started 15 threads so far this month. 
Sources for topics:
1. From a rightwing forum Free Republic
2. Lifezette. Appears to be a rightwing site masquerading as a general info and entertainment news site. 

3. Radaronline tabloid site
4. The Week appears to be middle of the road UK news/commentary source
5. Youtube from rightwing site
6. The Herald SC newspaper
7. Fox news
8. Syracuse local news blog
9. Double post 
10. CNN
11. The Hill
12. Washington Post
13. Washington Times
14. White House Dossier
15. NBC

Not too bad on actual threads you start. But when we look at your posts we see the usual range of tabloid and rightwing crazy. 

For example:



gapeach said:


> *Obama Orders That America Take In 70,000 Islamic âRefugees,â But Now John Kerry Says That The Number Will Be Up To 100,000 Muslims. Be Prepared For ISIS Massacres To Happen In The US Soon*
> 
> September 10, 2015
> 
> ...


Anti-Muslim blog, Anti-Muslim hate site, Anti-Muslim hate site.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Patchouli, since I post both in politics and general chat, also post sometimes in Companion animals, various other HT boards from time to time, I do not see this as an excessive amount of starting topics. I don't really think there are any limits, however I try to keep starting topics to 1 a day in both politics and GC.
Your first example, _From a rightwing forum Free Republic_, there is nothing there from Free Republic. The Baltimore Sun published the story and my link at the bottom of the article is from BS. The rest of them are the same sources that many of our other posters use. I don't see you or any of your group jumping on any of them. 
The only thing I can add is that if you do not like what I post, just don't read it. I have not had any criticism from any other posters except for your MS or whatever you want to call each other.
I am not going to be dictated to by any of you. if a moderator calls me on something , then that is different. I think Homesteading Today is a proponent of the First Amendment. I have never seen anything to the contrary.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gapeach said:


> Patchouli, since I post both in politics and general chat, also post sometimes in Companion animals, various other HT boards from time to time, I do not see this as an excessive amount of starting topics. I don't really think there are any limits, however I try to keep starting topics to 1 a day in both politics and GC.
> Your first example, _From a rightwing forum Free Republic_, there is nothing there from Free Republic. The Baltimore Sun published the story and my link at the bottom of the article is from BS. The rest of them are the same sources that many of our other posters use. I don't see you or any of your group jumping on any of them.
> The only thing I can add is that if you do not like what I post, just don't read it. I have not had any criticism from any other posters except for your MS or whatever you want to call each other.
> I am not going to be dictated to by any of you. if a moderator calls me on something , then that is different. I think Homesteading Today is a proponent of the First Amendment. I have never seen anything to the contrary.


As I have said before you are perfectly welcome to do whatever you like. If you want your sources to be taken seriously then you need to be sure they are serious sources. That's all I am saying.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Patchouli said:


> As I have said before you are perfectly welcome to do whatever you like. If you want your sources to be taken seriously then you need to be sure they are serious sources. That's all I am saying.


Exactly. Sad but true.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> As I have said before you are perfectly welcome to do whatever you like. If you want your sources to be taken seriously then you need to be sure they are serious sources. That's all I am saying.


Thanks for your response, Patchouli.
My posts are taken as seriously as anybody else's except for a very small minority.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

gapeach said:


> Thanks for your response, Patchouli.
> My posts are taken as seriously as anybody else's except for a very small minority.


no one with a brain takes links from unreputable sources seriously. If you're saying that most of the people here on HT are stupid, that isn't very nice.


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## beenaround (Mar 2, 2015)

poppy said:


> Typical of democrat politicians. Throw money at the problem. I'd wager gray wasn't worth $500 in assets when he died and showed no promise of ever being worth anything.


it just amazes me how people can see first hand what government is and how it's empowered and not see it. I have to chalk it up to blind hate.

If it wasn't for the people (We the People) screwing over their fellow Americans government would never had the opportunity to pass out this judgement. Having said that how many examples do you people need before you finally get that the entity, government, IS highly inefficient and grossly abusive of power.

There isn't one driving law that didn't originate from people not giving half a rats --- about the other people on the road. WE put government (see the above description if it didn't sink in) in patrol cars that sparked this event.

argue if you please, but more people are going to die till people get it.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> As I have said before you are perfectly welcome to do whatever you like. If you want your sources to be taken seriously then you need to be sure they are serious sources. That's all I am saying.


The same could be said for pro-Obama anti Cop left wing crazies that spout drivel from the leftist sources.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

basketti said:


> no one with a brain takes links from unreputable sources seriously. If you're saying that most of the people here on HT are stupid, that isn't very nice.


CNN admitted to taking orders from Obamaco
That's why I consider them "unreputable" and biased.
MSNBC is a joke, and not a reliable source.
NBC, CBS, ABC, all get their Obama news fed to them from Obamaco, therefore, not reputable.
You won't believe FOX or right leaning sources, so we are all kind of stuck picking through the crap trying to find the truth.
Usually, we have some left winging Obamacrat screaming that our source is "unreputable" (or disreputable) because it doesn't agree with their narrow minded opinion, they then counter with some left leaning half truth.
It'd be nice if the self appointed, left leaning, internet police would learn to stop screeching and just debate.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> And just to be clear I don't use a poor source as an excuse to blow off a post. If you post a link I will go and read it. Even if it is the latest drivel from Glenn Beck or Breitbart.


Beck and Breitbart are both pretty truthful compared to the leftist "news" sites


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

gapeach said:


> *Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake to announce she won't seek re-election*
> Baltimore Sun
> September 11, 2015
> 
> ...


She's the one who ordered the cops to "give them room to destroy"?


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> She's the one who ordered the cops to "give them room to destroy"?


 Yes, she is. The buzzards have come home to roost.:yuck:


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> Beck and Breitbart are both pretty truthful compared to the leftist "news" sites


But they don't present the news.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> But they don't present the news.


The tell what the government controlled "news" leaves out or lies about


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Oh Breitbart, we miss you so much and we hope you RIP. 
http://www.redstate.com/diary/nikitas3/2012/03/05/was-andrew-breitbart-murdered/


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Cornhusker said:


> The same could be said for pro-Obama anti Cop left wing crazies that spout drivel from the leftist sources.



I've never in my wildest dreams dreams thought of you as pro -Obama.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

The max claim allowed by law for a 911 victim was $8.6 million, just to put this into perspective. I'd say the amount Baltimore paid was about $5 million too much.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Nevada said:


> But they don't present the news.


Both have actual journalists working for them. Of course they present the news. Breitbart Texas and Breitbart London have broken a lot of news stories.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> Both have actual journalists working for them. Of course they present the news. Breitbart Texas and Breitbart London have broken a lot of news stories.


They tell the truth about Obama, so Nevada hates them


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> They tell the truth about Obama, so Nevada hates them



That is why the left does not like our "sources".
They spread too much truth about him.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

gapeach said:


> Oh Breitbart, we miss you so much and we hope you RIP.
> http://www.redstate.com/diary/nikitas3/2012/03/05/was-andrew-breitbart-murdered/


The speech Breitbart gave that got him killed.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS1CacgMWIs[/ame]


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

7thswan said:


> The speech Breitbart gave that got him killed.


All the legitimate sources say that Andrew Breitbart died of congestive heart failure. 

I'm sure you have a wild conspiracy theory that involves muslims and Obama, right? Care to share?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> The same could be said for pro-Obama anti Cop left wing crazies that spout drivel from the leftist sources.


Yeah well I have yet to have seen a post like that here. Next time you see one do be sure to point it out to me. :yawn:


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

I agree 7thswan please share the story on Breitbart!


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> All the legitimate sources say that Andrew Breitbart died of congestive heart failure.
> 
> I'm sure you have a wild conspiracy theory that involves muslims and Obama, right? Care to share?


Well ,go read up. Interesting stuff. But no, to the left planning a wedding is a tough conspiracy ...


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Oh this is awesome it wasn't just Breitbart that Obama had assassinated. It was Tom Clancy too. I am starting to see the lure in the crazy conspiracy theory websites.  

By the way Redstate.com and The daily trumpet are perfect examples of non-legit news sources. And so is this link too:

http://www.dcclothesline.com/2013/1...ama-andrew-breitbart-tom-clancy-assassinated/



> *Ex-CIA agent says Obama had Andrew Breitbart and Tom Clancy assassinated*
> 
> Posted on October 11, 2013 by Dr. Eowyn
> The following account is based on Brandon Walkerâs post on The Free Patriot blog, Oct. 10, 2013, with additional information I found. Walker is a licensed preacher of a veteran of the U.S. military and of law enforcement.
> ...


Where's Mulder when you need him? Or even better Scully.


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