# North America's most dangerous mammal?....Deer!



## moonwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

Was looking for some info on why there are exploding deer populations in North America, and came up reading this fairly interesting artcle. It's dated from 2001, but probably still relevant today, if not more so. 
Deer are responsible for more human deaths than any other North American mammal due to Motor Vehicle Collisions and the fact there are so many deer everywhere. 

http://www.reason.com/news/show/34914.html 

What do you think about the high deer populations seen in so many places? Hunters are often blamed for low populations. Are there just fewer hunters for deer now? :shrug:


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## derekv (Jan 31, 2007)

given what the week long gun season is i wouldnt say that there are few hunters, and the amounts on the road too its crazy, there are only three CO's for three different counties big ones too. but i think the reason their becoming more and more populas(is that a word?) is because we are getting more and more people moving from the city and those people have some bush, maybe a small pond, lots of bird feeders, and pretty much everything a deer and every other animal in the wildlife world could want


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2007)

moonwolf said:


> Was looking for some info on why there are exploding deer populations in North America, and came up reading this fairly interesting artcle. It's dated from 2001, but probably still relevant today, if not more so.
> Deer are responsible for more human deaths than any other North American mammal due to Motor Vehicle Collisions and the fact there are so many deer everywhere.
> 
> http://www.reason.com/news/show/34914.html
> ...


Just saw a article the other day about hunting being at a all time low. Reasons were the older hunters have given up on trying to find places to hunt. Now there is a shortage of elders to teach the young, plus the youngsters have their gameboys, pc, blackberries, etc. to ammuse them. 

People don't want hunters on thier land and at the same time they complain about the deer population explosion. Hunting may one day be something of the past.


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## hillsidedigger (Sep 19, 2006)

Some places need more bobcats which each kill and eat a dozen or more deer a year even though the deer might average 3 times the body-weight of a bobcat (bobcats target the smaller deer).

Note: Deer are, at best, the 2nd. most dangerous mammal after people who are 1st.


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## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

moonwolf said:


> Was looking for some info on why there are exploding deer populations in North America, and came up reading this fairly interesting artcle. It's dated from 2001, but probably still relevant today, if not more so.
> Deer are responsible for more human deaths than any other North American mammal due to Motor Vehicle Collisions and the fact there are so many deer everywhere.
> 
> http://www.reason.com/news/show/34914.html
> ...


Oh that is an easy excuse for poor driving habits isn't it? There are a lot of people out there who aren't paying attention or don't know (or don't care) how to drive when the possibility of deer exist.

About three years ago, I came on a scene where a young deer had been severely injured and a few cars had stopped to see if they could help it in some way. One of the ladies there that I spoke with said that she had slowed her car down because there were three deer on the side of the road. Of course, some moron in a Firebird decided that he was just too cool to slow down and proceeded to pass the car, only to have the deer jump out right in front of him and the young deer was seriously injuried. 

Now you can bet that he told his insurance company that a deer "ran out in front of him" and he didn't have time to stop, when in fact, it was totally his fault. 

Intelligent people know that when the sun starts getting low in the sky that you slow down and watch on BOTH sides of the road for deer. And at night, in rural areas or areas where there are large undeveloped fields or woods that you go SLOW and are prepared to stop on a dime if you so much see a glint of an eye reflected in your headlights or a flash of a white tail.

Ninety percent of the people who are driving out there are so oblivious to anything that a bull elephant could be in the middle of the road and they wouldn't see it until they hit it.

donsgal


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

Hunters (I'm a hunter too) take credit for the high populations of deer today, and if they are correct, they are also responsible for the correspondingly high incidents of property damage, human injuries, and human deaths caused by these increased deer populations.

Personally, I think food stamps, welfare, and weekly pay checks have done a lot to increase the deer populations, certainly much more than all of the conservation efforts heralded by the various DNR's and hunter groups. A hungry human is going to find food; legally or illegally. The peasants of Northern Europe sure didn't let the King's laws stop them from eating the King's deer; today the "King's Deer" have become the "land holder's deer", and the High Sheriff's of old have been replaced by today's CO's, but if the US of A were to have another of its "Great Depressions" damage caused by deer would soon be a distant memory.


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## moonwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

donsgal said:


> Oh that is an easy excuse for poor driving habits isn't it? There are a lot of people out there who aren't paying attention or don't know (or don't care) how to drive when the possibility of deer exist.
> 
> About three years ago, I came on a scene where a young deer had been severely injured and a few cars had stopped to see if they could help it in some way. One of the ladies there that I spoke with said that she had slowed her car down because there were three deer on the side of the road. Of course, some moron in a Firebird decided that he was just too cool to slow down and proceeded to pass the car, only to have the deer jump out right in front of him and the young deer was seriously injuried.
> 
> ...


interesting comments, and probably some of it's true. Deer do jump up from ditches, run fast across fields jump over fences and dodge right into oncoming traffic by surprise. 

Also, consider this. Is there just a whole lot more people, roads, and development than years ago? That brings more humans into closer interraction with 'wild' deer. More cars on the roads and more deer simply would mean more collisions, preventable or not. :shrug:


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

Here in Missouri most of the state Deer Season is 4 months long with Unlimited Doe Tags,but people can only eat so many Deer.

On the most part the Farmers that are having problems with Deer won't let hunters on their land.

Around my place there was a decline in Deer numbers,but I think they are coming back big time.

big rockpile


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## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

big rockpile said:


> Here in Missouri most of the state Deer Season is 4 months long with Unlimited Doe Tags,but people can only eat so many Deer.
> 
> On the most part the Farmers that are having problems with Deer won't let hunters on their land.
> 
> ...


Ummmmm, if I were a farmer and deer were giving me problems I would be doing a little "deer maintenance" i.e. SSS. I believe the Missouri Department of Conservation will allow you to kill animals out of seasoon *if* they are posing a physical danger to you. If a conservation officer were to actually see/investigate an off season deer shooting, it would be pretty much your word against the deers whether or not they were behaving in a threatening way. LOL. At my homestead I think you could be shooting deer all day long and nobody would know the difference unless you started piling them up by the road. All you have to do is tell people you were doing a little target practice if they ask about the gunfire. Who's to know?

Now I am a strong proponent of the law. However, I believe that every person has the right to protect your property as fundamental. Laws that circumvent that right are wrong. IMHO.

donsgal


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

Well I know a Guy that was losing his Orchard.The MDC put a timed Canon out there to scare the Deer,then they hung Road Kills in the trees.Then finally they let people it there shoot anything.Me and my Grandpa didn't have to shoot,just go along cut what we wanted.Filled two Freezers.

Me and Grandpa counted 75 in one Herd and we know we deidn't count them all.I know I had Milo and Soybeans planted there and about 50 yards out from every tree everything was trampped and ate down.

big rockpile


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## Tad (Apr 2, 2003)

Haggis said:


> Hunters (I'm a hunter too) take credit for the high populations of deer today, and if they are correct, they are also responsible for the correspondingly high incidents of property damage, human injuries, and human deaths caused by these increased deer populations.
> 
> Personally, I think food stamps, welfare, and weekly pay checks have done a lot to increase the deer populations, certainly much more than all of the conservation efforts heralded by the various DNR's and hunter groups. A hungry human is going to find food; legally or illegally. The peasants of Northern Europe sure didn't let the King's laws stop them from eating the King's deer; today the "King's Deer" have become the "land holder's deer", and the High Sheriff's of old have been replaced by today's CO's, but if the US of A were to have another of its "Great Depressions" damage caused by deer would soon be a distant memory.


I wish that were true but I think you know as well as I do they would just line up and wait for the government to feed them. IE the poeple sitting in New Orleans complaining no one has given them a job yet. We have a dairy farm here in western NY. We are all grass and pasture so deer don't bother our crops much. Tear up fences pretty bad but it's manageable. We have lots of deer can see 10 -15 per night from the barn, but I am VERY seletive who I let hunt... TOOO many crazies out there. Most of the city hunters from Buffalo have given up but there is still ocation to duck now and then!


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2007)

r.h. in okla. said:


> Just saw a article the other day about hunting being at a all time low.


 I've been reading that too.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

My great aunt and uncle talk about all the deer my great grandfather and other relitives used to take in the early spring nothing they didn't eat but they usualy kept a rifle handy when tending the orchards and it was very comon 

i call it hunt by opertunuty when the shelves are running low and their are more empty jars than full and dinner walks in don't look a gift deer in the mouth , shoot


i also don't think that there are that many more deer than there were 15 or 20 years ago just more people driving , less people paying attention and more people commuting a greater distance 

not that long ago you could stop on a county road and not see another car pass for 20 minutes in the middle of the day and an hour hour or more at night and now you would be hard pressed to go 5 minutes durring the day and 20 at night in many areas
all that adds up to one thing a lot less time a deer can cross a road without traffic that it could potentialy creat a hazard to. i personaly have spent a lot of time driving county roads and have never once hit a deer had a few close but i figure when somone tells you they have hit multiple deer either they were not paying attention. 

kind of like the lady that hit my truck one time when i was making a left hand turn i had just started into the left it was clear for as far as i could see it was bright sun and the street was in the shade i was able to stop and there would have been plenty of room to go around me but she locked up the brakes and skidded right into me i was tecnicaly at fault but when she went into her rant about how she had just gotten he car out of the shop and how it has been there 3 times that year the cop just shook his head and took our info on a napkin i never got a ticket 

and a scrach in the crome bumper of my old for f150 was all my damage her car was going to get a new front drivers side quarter pannle a hood and a bumper light


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## Hillbillybob (Jul 30, 2007)

I have seen to many deer run right into the side of a stopped auto, more that 20 times in the last 5 years alone. How is it some one's fault for being stopped when they haft yo stop?
The deer herds have exploded around here in the last 10 years also. More people equal more people feeding the pretty deer.
I remember the first time I saw a big buck with a nice rack. I was so excited and was about 10 years old. I was telling the story to an older gentleman and he looked down at me and said Son if you live long enough you will learn to hate deer.
I guess every time that I help someone out in a deer/auto accident I think that I have lived long enough to learn to hate deer.
Hillbillybob


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

there is a lot of sprawl in the U.S. there are lots of suburbs with lots of cars and lots of hunting restrictions. that leads to lots of interaction between deer and people. i think i read a statistic that said the average amount of vehicle/deer accidents in allegheny county PA, basically the pittsburgh area, over a certain number of years, was something like 12,000 per year.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

There's definitely less hunting, and a lot of the hunters that are going out are less skilled than in past years. Also in a lot of areas the habitat is actually INCREASING because of people buying up farmland and using it for recreational purposes. I have an aerial photo of the area around our farm taken in 1952. Only about half of the land being farmed in that photo is still clear and being farmed, most of the rest has gone back to rough bush and habitat. Have an acquaintance about 10 miles north of us who regularly counts 70-80 deer visible in his hayfields from his back porch in the early evening.
There's also a problem with too many of the few hunters there are being focused on the trophy buck. Two years ago we got 6 out of season tags for crop damage. We wanted to make darn sure they were used on does to cut down on our future numbers. We actually had a hard time finding hunters who were willing to restrict themselves to trying for does.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

absolutely nothing wrong with killing does, but it is sort of a downer to be limited to only does when you are in an area with nice bucks. i got three doe tags for my area of PA this year. i really don't care if the buck tag gets filled or not, but i will not let a nice one walk, that's for sure.


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## moonwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

Doe hunting is also encouraged here. Every year there is an antlerless deer tag (meaning usually does) draw. It used to be years ago that not 100% of those entering the draw could hunt does, but in the past decade it's almost certain you'll get a doe tag if you apply. Also, within the last 5 years, a hunter with a valid deer permit hunting does in the WMU's having large deer populations, can buy up to 6 doe tags. That limits the pressure on big bucks which is sound game management to keep the genetic quality by not decimating the large buck population. The big buck trophy hunters are still there, which aren't usually the local folk wanting venison only. Trophy antlers now are encouraged to be hunted by non residents with the guide requirement. Seems to keep a balance on things. At least in this region of the world.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

in my experience in southern states most guys only shoot A doe right at the beginning of the season to fill the freezer or the last day or two for the same reason. i can't think of anyone i know who takes all the deer they are allowed even if they could have.


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## posifour11 (Feb 27, 2003)

i'm having a very hard time finding land to hunt that isn't public wildlife management here. i guess folks don't want the liabilty.

pops, i would love to fill my doe tags, but it's hard to do on public land, i have yet to see a deer during season here, let alone get a shot.


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## Michael Leferink (Jul 12, 2003)

The over population of deer is due to the over population of humans. More humans means less old growth forest, more brush and young forest edge. Deer thrive under the current conditions. More humans are moving into the country and bringing their city ideas and philosophy with them. This changes the rural culture, drives up the price of land, which in turn drives up the property tax which drives out the original rural folk adding to the destruction of our original culture. Just start calling the U.S.A., Europe West!

Timber company's have broken their promise to allow people free access to their property. They are making millions of dollars by leasing their property to hunting clubs while paying almost no taxes. In north Louisiana, the timber company's bought up most of the land for +- 5 cents an acre during the 1930's. During the Great Depression, people tended to be land rich and money poor. The carpet baggers took horrible advantage of the situation. I have seen and read newspaper articles, complete with pictures and quotes. The locals were promised that they and their descendent's would forever have access to timber company lands for the purposes of food gathering, fire wood, hunting, fishing, trapping, camping, hiking, etc. Then, during the 1980's, these timber company's began leasing to hunting clubs and giving the clubs permission to post the leased land as "no trespassing" area's. Prior to this I had free and unfettered access to thousands of acres and was able to supply my family with game for the table at a fraction of the cost of buying meat in the grocery store. I could ride my horse almost anywhere I needed to go. My wife and children and I would often hunt together, target shoot and/or take walks in the brush and woods. Everthing is changed now. I do almost no hunting anymore. I only go if a property owner or leaser invites me to go. The average person can not afford the cost of belonging to a hunting club or the cost of leasing on their own. The WMA's are over crowded and over regulated so much that is dangerous to be on them. That is why I am trying so hard to save enough money so that I can one day own my own farm. Then and only then will my family and I have a place to hunt and practice our shooting skills. Hunting use to be a way of life. Now, it has simply become another rich man's sport. How very, very sad.

The bottom line? Even though there are more humans, there are fewer humans with access to the hunting grounds. Therefore, there are fewer hunters available to take the deer. It will get worse with each generation. 

If I sound bitter, it's because I am!

MikeL


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Hillbillybob said:


> I have seen to many deer run right into the side of a stopped auto, more that 20 times in the last 5 years alone. How is it some one's fault for being stopped when they haft yo stop?
> The deer herds have exploded around here in the last 10 years also. More people equal more people feeding the pretty deer.
> I remember the first time I saw a big buck with a nice rack. I was so excited and was about 10 years old. I was telling the story to an older gentleman and he looked down at me and said Son if you live long enough you will learn to hate deer.
> I guess every time that I help someone out in a deer/auto accident I think that I have lived long enough to learn to hate deer.
> Hillbillybob



it's not the ones that run into the side of a car that cause fatal accidents for the most part especialy not those running into the side of a stopped car.
the injury crashes tend to have speed , and distraction in the mix often it is not that the deer that killed/injured the person it is that they lost control in trying not to hit the deer or after they hit the deer
i will take the deer over the ditch if it is a choice i have to make 
it is highly unlikely that a deer will penitrate your windsheild at legal highway speeds.

most tractor trailers rigs operating in northern wisconsin minisota and michigan have a deer gaurd to nock the deer down and keep it out of the radiator so they can keep operating.


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## Hillbillybob (Jul 30, 2007)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> it's not the ones that run into the side of a car that cause fatal accidents for the most part especialy not those running into the side of a stopped car.
> the injury crashes tend to have speed , and distraction in the mix often it is not that the deer that killed/injured the person it is that they lost control in trying not to hit the deer or after they hit the deer
> i will take the deer over the ditch if it is a choice i have to make
> it is highly unlikely that a deer will penitrate your windsheild at legal highway speeds.
> ...


I tried to find the news clip where the woman was killed in a parked car by a buck that came through the passenger car window and the antlers of the buck went through the woman's neck letting her bleed to death is just minuets.
Have seen several people cut up bad by the deer hooves after going through a window of a parked cars. 
To say people don't die as deer don't go through windshields while people are traveling at normal legal speeds is plain wrong. How many deer/auto crashes have you ever worked? I have worked many over the years here in the Ozarks and if you have seen what I have seen over the years you wouldn't make such a statement.
Deer are man killers when it comes to auto/deer crashes.
Hillbillybob


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