# Tips for stopping trespassers needed!



## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

Ok, at the risk of starting yet another thread about whether someone has the right to trespass or not, please let me just say that I don't want to get into that! I think it's safe to say we've pretty much exhausted THAT topic for awhile.

What I need is some tips for stopping people from trespassing, specifically with their ATVs. 

I was contacted by a neighhour whose property backs up onto ours---keeping in mind that we both own large acreages, so we don't actually "see" each other; we're talking woodlands here. There is a large "unoffical" (private) trail that runs the length of our properties. There have always been a couple of people sneaking through there, but lately it is starting to become a larger problem. The trails at the far back portion of my land is not travelled by me frequently, but upon talking with the neighbour, took a tour and found that there are now 2 feet deep trenches on my trail, dug up by ATVers (he says he's got ruts over 3 feet deep). The other farmer is livid and who can blame him? He said at one time, he caught a pack of 20 people out there!

Anyhow, it turns out that these bikers are cutting through both our lands---did I mention that this is PRIVATE property, and no one has permission to be there---and destroying everyone's trails. Apparently these folk just think that since there is a trail there, it's a free-for-all.

So.....how to stop them? According to the neighbour, he put up cables, etc, and they were cut. Since my property also is split by the CN railway tracks, they had put up gates, which are normally left open. We've been thinking of shutting them, but would need CN's permission. The issue is that if people are crossing at that point, should a highspeed train nail them, THEY are held liable since according to our law, CN must take precautions at their crossings, so getting them locked should be CN's priority. However, I would assume that the ATVers would just divert around the gates---perhaps by cutting old rusty fencing---so gates might not help much.

Now having said that, CATCHING the offenders would stop them, since they could be charged with trespassing and possibly vandalism, and from what I understand from the neighbour, he's gonna start monitoring the area more frequently. Apparently, it's a small bunch of people, but the same ones who often bring "friends".

When we first moved here, we had people gunning down our driveway at all hours, which we promptly put a stop to by adding a gate. After catching someone totally ignoring the "NO TRESPASSING" sign and actually going to far as to undo the chain on the gate (!), we added a lock. So now the bikers slip through an adjoining property and STILL apparently cut through ours to get on the private trail. 

A friend of mine says try barbed wire that is marked well and also lots of signs. Yeah, and I think they will just ignore them. Another says fell some large trees across the trail points. So I'm thinking, lots of fencing, signs, maybe some "barriers" at points of entry onto my property and hanging out there more to catch the offenders and make it clear that a second capture will result in fines. 

I've also considered contacting CrimeStoppers, since there is nothing more appealing about turning someone in for a crime than being paid cash. I'm sure there's a few people that would turn in their own mom for a couple hundred bucks, and in this case, vandalism has occurred, so it's about more than trespassing now. No doubt there's quite a few that can use some cash and just happens to know the guilty parties.

I may also contact the township to see if they have any ideas for a solution.

I really didn't worry about this issue much before as I believe in live and let live, but 20 ATVers? Come on, that's a little much, it's only a matter of time before someone gets hurt, so I must do something to show that I am not approving of trespass. The property owner on the other side also agrees. I'm thinking maybe another talk with the first neighbour is in order, to see if he has spoken to any other property owners. Maybe it we all got together and cut off the entry and exit routes.......

I need your advice ASAP, but please, keep it to sensible remedies......NOT blowing people away with shotguns, cutting their legs off with bear traps, laying down spike belts, etc. I want PRACTICAL advice, I don't want to injure or kill anyone. Thanks so much! 

DD


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

I agree with adding several large logs to the trail (esp in areas that it would be near impossible to get around them), but my thoughts are running along the lines of very visible signs; something very simple yet to the point, in addition to the standard "posted: no tresspassing" sign.

I imagine these ATV-ers are age 14-44, and a bit on the wild side. I guess if it were me, I'd appeal to them in a way they *might* understand:

" DEAR RIDERS: Because of excessive use of this trail system, it is now too dangerously rutted for my daughters and myself to safely ride, so we are closing this trail. Anyone who wants to help groom the trail so that it *might* be ready for next Saturday's ride should just call me or stop by the house to grab a shovel and a map of the sections that are in dire need of attention. Thanks, Jill 000-000-0000"

The MINUTE someone actually came to the house, I would tell them to spread the word that this is PRIVATE property, etc, etc, (piece of my mind roar! :hobbyhors )


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## MaineFarmMom (Dec 29, 2002)

How about a trail cam? If you get pics with registration numbers the sheriff's department can pay the owners a visit to remind them that they're trespassing.


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## RockyGlen (Jan 19, 2007)

I would post very large signs explaining that it is the training ground for my new business.....attack Dobermans....and they run loose, so enter at your own risk


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## palani (Jun 12, 2005)

If it is woodlands and it is a *foot*path why not drop 15 - 20 trees across the trail at intervals. It is still possible to travel by foot, just difficult by snowmobile or atv.

It is possible the problem will disappear once gas reaches $6 per gallon.


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

One EASY solution....Contact your local Game Warden (DNR, Wildlife Official, whatever) have them come out and see the problem. Once they arrive, give them permission to hunt/fish on your property. Trust me.....they will keep everyone else out and all it will cost you is a couple of deer/turkey per year.

David


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## neolady (Dec 30, 2005)

If I correctly recall Ontario law, I believe that the area must be posted every *** number of feet (could be 200) with no trespassing signs. It's almost 2 decades since I lived there, but I do recall that it was very difficult to have charges laid because of the actual trespass law itself. All it took was for one sign to be missing (which the trespassers would usually have removed anyway). The letter of the law for no trespassing must be met before anything charges could be contemplated. Call your local municipal bylaw office first and talk to them. You are a local taxpayer, make them earn some of your tax dollars.

You need some help from local law enforcement (perhaps the OPP) or regional police. Another source for assistance could be Lands and Forests as well. 

You need to realize the legal implications of ANY move that YOU make to obstruct the ATVs or snowmobiles. Chains, cables, wires, etc. could leave you very wide open to a lawsuit that your insurer will have to defend. Caselaw across the country has ruled in favour the trespassers in most cases when damages have been caused by obstruction or obstruction on the trespass lands. That's certainly not fair, but it is the judicial system right across both the U.S. and Canada. Canadian law leaves less room for protection of an individual's life and property than the U.S. system does.

I certainly understand your frustration, and I know I would be desperate to stop this kind of behaviour. I only have a small acreage, which is fully fenced. I'm posted with no trespassing signs and guard dog on duty. I was running up to 5 neapolitan mastiffs and a rottie on the property and my theft and trespass problems stopped. Your acreage is too large and too concealed for a fence to work. Fencing pliers are just too handy a tool unless you can view the fenceline.

I think if they are footpaths, I would be looking at creating massive tire damage - those ATV tires are expensive and it could be a long haul to drag them out sans tires.


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## RosewoodfarmVA (Oct 5, 2005)

If neither you or the other owner use the trail, just buy a 50 pound box of roofing nails and scatter them all over the trail. Place some no tresspassing signs and then enjoy the show as they try to get their flat tired vehicles out of the mud! Gates won't work, they will just go around. If they disregard signs, more signs won't help.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Well since you've already eliminated the heads on pikes.... Large trees, rock piles, loose leaf piles, whatever obstacles you can put on the trail. And call the sheriff and game wardens.


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## RedneckPete (Aug 23, 2004)

You didn't even know the trail was rutted until your neighbour told you. So why exactly do you care?

Don't cry with the liability line. It's not near as bad in Canada as in the US, and if they are using your land without your position, you really have nothing to worry about. Trying to stop them with dangerous blockades is far more likely to cause a lawsuit should someone get hurt.

Pete


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

All Terrain Vandals are a problem virtually everywhere they are sold. It just seems to attract the me-first aggressive types. 

You could try to contact the local ATV club for help but they'll likely want to turn your trail into "their" trail in exchange for help. Even if you catch the riders it's unlikely you'll get much more than "we ain't hurt'n nutt'n" and the finger. In our state (home of 2 ATV makers) we are forbidden by law from preventing them from destroying our driveway approaches.

I think you need to make it in their interest to stop because how it affects you is not a concern to many (most) riders. One way to do that is to lay down some barbed wire on the trail. The tires pick up the wire and wrap it around the axle stopping the rotation of the tire. Another option is the trail camera but then you need to find someone to take it seriously enough to prosecute. You might also try taking the perp to court for damage repair. If successful, word would spread and make some riders think twice. Be aware that it may bring retaliation like nails in your driveway or worse.

Last summer I put some logs in the ruts crossing my driveway to get riders to move over and make new ruts. After returning home from a 7 hour drive I turned to enter my driveway and it was almost completely hidden in dust. A rider was busy trying to dig ruts in my driveway with his front brake locked and his back wheels turning. When he saw me he sped off. I followed him in my car so I could find out where he lived in case he came back to vandalize my property. He gave me the finger and waved me over. I drove over and he ran up stabbing his finger in my face and screaming obsenities. He even ordered me out of the car. When his wife roared up on her machine and came running over with her shoulders back like she was ready to join in I left. They did that in plain sight of their little daughter who was illegally riding on one of the machines. It's a family sport according to some riders.

Here are 2 websites I put together showing what they are doing in our forests and how our state and county are looking the other way.

http://www.crowwingcountymn.org

http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/HayCreek.html


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

We have been trying to deal with this problem as part of a volunteer committee affiliated with the Trans-Canada trail. It is not an easy solution.

Usually, the best you can manage is to make it inconvenient enough that they follow the path of least resistance in another direction. That kind of pushes it off on neighbours, but surveillance and prosecution seems like pretty slim odds.

In places where our trail is ecologically sensitive or where there are limited entry points, we have put post-and-chain fencing in. 4-5 inch fence posts, hole drilled in the middle and heavy chain fed through. You have to have the chain fairly taut, or the will use the slack to wiggle under. You end up having to replace a post every so often, and with the second replacement we seat it in concrete. You also have to sign it and flag it so they can see it clearly. 

If you persist, eventually they find other places to go, you just have to outwork them. Although they will vandalize these arrangements, they eventually give up because they are essentially lazy (why else would they ride ATVs?). It may not be fair, but that seems to be the reality.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

You will get whatever you are willing to put up with.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

start planting hawthorn trees and place the thorny limbs all over the trail. that stuff is nasty.


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## neolady (Dec 30, 2005)

RedneckPete said:


> You didn't even know the trail was rutted until your neighbour told you. So why exactly do you care?
> 
> Don't cry with the liability line. It's not near as bad in Canada as in the US, and if they are using your land without your position, you really have nothing to worry about. Trying to stop them with dangerous blockades is far more likely to cause a lawsuit should someone get hurt.
> 
> Pete


(1) It's his property which is enough of a reason to care.

(2) Wrong. The liability is increasingly bad throughout Canada, and you just can't close your eyes to the trespass and walk away scot free. 

(3) And yes, it is a guaranteed lawsuit if someone gets hurt. The fact alone that this has been posted on a public message board is enough to guarantee that this individual can't deny the fact that this was happening.


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

We had the same problem when we first got our property, but DH is very intimidating. After we caught some guys going OVER our fence DH tackled one guy and peeled him off the vehicle. He told him that if he caught him on our property again, he'd have to tow the vehicle out of the woods. He told them to spread the word. Haven't had a problem in 9 years.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

Lets make it worth your time to fix it.Go see a lawyer and tell him your situation. Tell him you want to start a ATV riders club. You are thinking about a lifetime membership for about $10,000 With no riding allowed till you have sold 10 memberships and constructed trail.
Now if you can catch someone they have commited an offence with a value so ifyou cachthem you should be able to recover some bucks that not only helps you imakes them think about things.
Next invest in a very good security camera system you want goods clear usable pictures.....happy hunting!!


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## RedneckPete (Aug 23, 2004)

DixyDoodle said:


> The trails at the far back portion of my land is not travelled by me frequently, but upon talking with the neighbour, took a tour and found that there are now 2 feet deep trenches on my trail, dug up by ATVers (he says he's got ruts over 3 feet deep). The other farmer is livid and who can blame him?


The reason the trails are badly rutted is because it's spring and the ground is soft. In these conditions, ATV rut trails badly. You are exaggerating with the two and three feet measurements, but I get your point.

What you may NOT realize is this. As the ground hardens, the ATVs will ride on the high (dry) points of the trail, pushing them down and filling in the ruts. Short of using heavy equipment, letting the ATVs continued access to the trail is almost undoubtedly the quickest and easiest way to level your trail.

If you are serious about blocking them off, doing so in the early fall (before the ground gets soft again) would likely be in your best interest.

That said, the ONLY way to stop ATVs is with a permanent, well maintained fence of some kind, likely surrounding your property on at least three sides. ATVers typically will pass through, and as such will not enter an area they have to turn around to get out of. ATVs are a fact of country life. I enjoy ridding dirt bikes, and travel on trails that may or may not cross private property. Many of these trails go almost a hundred miles. If you think you will be able to block a trail like that, give up now.

At one point the trails cross a large sod field. The sod farmers actually marked a path across the field with small flags, and EVERYONE stayed between the flags.

Personally, I suggest you buy and ATV and start riding with the fellows. You might gain new insight, find a new source of fun and even make some new friends.

Pete


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

RedneckPete said:


> The reason the trails are badly rutted is because it's spring and the ground is soft. In these conditions, ATV rut trails badly. You are exaggerating with the two and three feet measurements, but I get your point.
> 
> What you may NOT realize is this. As the ground hardens, the ATVs will ride on the high (dry) points of the trail, pushing them down and filling in the ruts. Short of using heavy equipment, letting the ATVs continued access to the trail is almost undoubtedly the quickest and easiest way to level your trail.
> 
> ...


Spoken like an ATV riding tresspasser  

They dont want these people on their land. You are suggesting that hey, they are breaking the law but why fight it, just let them. If someone came and camped out in your barn, would that be ok? Or walked into your house uninvited , made themselves a snack and watched TV? Its the same thing.


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## RedneckPete (Aug 23, 2004)

Shygal said:


> Spoken like an ATV riding tresspasser
> 
> They dont want these people on their land. You are suggesting that hey, they are breaking the law but why fight it, just let them. If someone came and camped out in your barn, would that be ok? Or walked into your house uninvited , made themselves a snack and watched TV? Its the same thing.


Absolutely ridiculous! I'd let my brother walk into my house and fix a snack, I'd let a couple backpacking strangers sleep in my hay loft for a night, and I'd let a bunch of people I never even met buzz across the back of my property, completely out of sight and sound from my house.

I wouldn't let a wild deer sit and watch TV with me, but I couldn't care less if it crapped in the corner of my woods.

Get real!

Pete


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

RedneckPete said:


> In these conditions, ATV rut trails badly. You are exaggerating with the two and three feet measurements, but I get your point.
> .Pete


You present yourself as an ATV expert and you say something like this.Ive seen ATTV ruts that deep and deeper So are you just ignorant of what an ATV can do or just a liar?
As you say ATVs will keep moving side to side wallowing thier way down.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I never actually confronted my atv trespassers. My new lake was completed in 2001. It obliterated an old trail, that was used on intermittently and never with permission. The first time the atv'er's tried to access the old trail, the lake blocked their way... I saw where they were trying to make a trail around the water on the upper end...where there are some pretty steep draws. I got some 5' monofilament fishing line and made about six short wraps ~30' long about belly high. A few weeks later "one" string was broke........ the others were still there... they've since started using the road, which is only 200yards away.

You might want to cut short sections of mono or other small cordage, and put tumbleweed sized balls loose all over the place. My 'sources' tell me that monofilament getting in the tracks of snowgo's is pure murder, and it takes a while to clean out.

My gameplan was to use the light weight mono line up... if the trespassing were to continue, I'd up the weight, finally to spiderwire, and see if they got the message. Sue Me? Go ahead! I can just as easily trespass on your place and injure myself.... and I daresay a grand jury hereabouts wouldn't even spend time on a trespassing damage case.........but if they did, they could handle "two" cases, exactly alike...


Something else that spooks/spooked a lot of folks was some Halloween stuff that my sister left up on my gate. After halloween, the stuff never came down.... and a few days later, an Hispanic mowing crew (that had a right to be on my place) wouldn't cross my cattleguard. My sis had tied a half dozen dolls with rope from the surrounding trees... some were hanging by their feet, neck, or arms... some had their heads pulled off, taped to the dolls hands... some had blindfolds on... with koolaid water stains... The sheriff actually called me in to see if someone was trying to intimidate me... we had a good giggle when I told him the story, and that I was going to leave the voodoo zombie dolls hanging, cause they were intimidating folks I didn't want visiting in the first place.


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## minnikin1 (Feb 3, 2003)

We have found that whenever we put up an obstacle on the trail, they
either move it, cut it, or go around. 

We are currently trying to come up with ways to make it costly to the trespassers. 

We take lots of photos and keep a log book of the dates and damage they cause. We note every last sapling that they mow down.
We're doing this because the first one we catch is going to be the one we sue to pay for damages. 

We smeared black grease on fences so if they try to lift the wires for their 
friends to ride under, they get their clothes, gloves, and/or hands full of 
nastiness. We had started with just smooth wire fences but are now going to add some strands of barbed wire, so it will be more difficult for them to slip through. 

I carry a camera and hot pepper spray with me when I walk out there now. The spray has a chemical in it that leaves an invisible stain that can be seen under black light. This is so Law enforcement will be able to identify the riders after the fact. (When I first started capturing them in pics, they're faces were covered by helmets and the cops said they couldn't identify the person on the machine. That's why we try to spray them now.
We are currently considering using a paintball gun. We have been having trouble locating paintballs that have permanent ink or a tendency to stain. 
(Please join us in writing to some paintball manufacturers, we want to encourage them that there is a market for these) 


Sorry we don't have much better to offer. It's a difficult battle. 
We won't win until folks like REdneckPete are fined or otherwise pained/inconvenienced for their behavior.


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

WARNING: I, the property OWNER, have scattered roofing nails all over this trail. By passing this point, you are agreeing that you have read and understand this warning and are entering at your own risk.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

What a bunch of baloney!

I can take you to ruts that deep or deeper. The riders don't quit they just move over and start making a new one. Then the rain takes over and turns them into gullies. There seems to be an inability for ATV riders to empathize. Whenever there is a conflict it's always the fault of the other person. Don't like ruts. Your problem not mine. Don't like the noise. Your problem because I don't mind the noise.

Carrying pepper spray when patrolling your property is a good idea. Spray them and take the keys.





RedneckPete said:


> The reason the trails are badly rutted is because it's spring and the ground is soft. In these conditions, ATV rut trails badly. You are exaggerating with the two and three feet measurements, but I get your point.
> 
> What you may NOT realize is this. As the ground hardens, the ATVs will ride on the high (dry) points of the trail, pushing them down and filling in the ruts. Short of using heavy equipment, letting the ATVs continued access to the trail is almost undoubtedly the quickest and easiest way to level your trail.
> 
> ...


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## moopups (May 12, 2002)

Do these rider show up at any consistent schedule? Such as Saturday morning week after week? Might be a good time to invite your friends over for a bit of target practice. The repeated gun fire might send a message.


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## RedneckPete (Aug 23, 2004)

I guess the ATVs around your place are special. They come equipped with four to six foot high tires that enable them to operate in two to three foot deep ruts without getting the axles hung up. Please post pictures of these ATVs as well as the ruts they cause. This I got to see!


Pete


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

The only problem I've had was with neighborhood teens, but one levelheaded talk with one parent solved that problem. Perhaps if you know the riders, talk to them, or their parents if teens. I've never understood parents that buy atvs with no land to ride on and if one gets hurt on your land you are liable, But a talk if possible will let each party know where the other stands. That talk should also get you the info you need if they dont stop, if you know what I mean.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

You will get only what you tolerate! I have had lots of trespassing problems in the past but no more. Take a position and stick to it. Give fair warning then take steps within the law but remain rigid. Take photos and record license plate numbers (if the ATVs are trucked in). Post for No Trespass and record that with the authorities. Prosecute and create a reputation that trespassing will not be tolerate. They will go elsewhere.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Please do not lay down nails. If you choose to raise livestock later on, the cost and mortality rate will be phenomenal and I would also think that deer might be prone to hardware disease as well and you certainly don't want to see animals die for the cause. I would contact fish and wildlife and the police to see what your rights are and if they would be interested in monitoring the trail for a while with ticket book in hand.


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

agmantoo said:


> You will get only what you tolerate! I have had lots of trespassing problems in the past but no more. Take a position and stick to it. Give fair warning then take steps within the law but remain rigid. Take photos and record license plate numbers (if the ATVs are trucked in). Post for No Trespass and record that with the authorities. Prosecute and create a reputation that trespassing will not be tolerate. They will go elsewhere.


Exactly! After a few encounters that involved me taking license plate numbers and calling the sheriff's dept. out we no longer have any trouble with trespassers.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

It would seem simple to require the tires or tracks have a number branded into them that would Id them


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

RedneckPete said:


> I guess the ATVs around your place are special. They come equipped with four to six foot high tires that enable them to operate in two to three foot deep ruts without getting the axles hung up. Please post pictures of these ATVs as well as the ruts they cause. This I got to see!
> 
> 
> Pete


LOL only a bigoted close minded ignoramus would say this especially AFTER it was just explained to him how it is done.
OR could it be that you think if you just keep denying the problem enough others will believe you?


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## RedneckPete (Aug 23, 2004)

fantasymaker said:


> LOL only a bigoted close minded ignoramus would say this especially AFTER it was just explained to him how it is done.
> OR could it be that you think if you just keep denying the problem enough others will believe you?


Pictures please.

Pete


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## CoonXpress (Sep 20, 2004)

If you have cattle, call the RCMP and have the trespassers arrested for attempted cattle rustleling. 
Will

p.s. Pete, it only took me 2 seconds to do a Google search for roads rutted by ATVS, I'd show the pics, but have a feeling that you wouldn't be able to see them.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

RedneckPete said:


> Pictures please.
> 
> Pete


Here are some.

http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/HayCreek.html

As you can see the erosion continued to a depth far greater than what you said is possible.


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## Guest (May 7, 2007)

Like my new tires?


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

RedneckPete said:


> You didn't even know the trail was rutted until your neighbour told you. So why exactly do you care?
> 
> Don't cry with the liability line. It's not near as bad in Canada as in the US, and if they are using your land without your position, you really have nothing to worry about. Trying to stop them with dangerous blockades is far more likely to cause a lawsuit should someone get hurt.
> 
> Pete


It's amazing how many people are available to help those of us who own land to just use it up. We pay the taxes, repair the damages and often work 2 jobs to get the land and then some person comes along on their multi thousand dollar toys to destroy at will and litter with all kinds of trash, beer cans and so on. It is really amazing that some don't understand. Perhaps if some would put some toil and sweat into the land they might just get "it". :shrug:


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

http://www.ncrs.info/pictures.html


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

RedneckPete said:


> The reason the trails are badly rutted is because it's spring and the ground is soft. In these conditions, ATV rut trails badly. You are exaggerating with the two and three feet measurements, but I get your point.
> 
> What you may NOT realize is this. As the ground hardens, the ATVs will ride on the high (dry) points of the trail, pushing them down and filling in the ruts. Short of using heavy equipment, letting the ATVs continued access to the trail is almost undoubtedly the quickest and easiest way to level your trail.
> 
> ...


You might gain some respect for private property if you just shell out some cash and buy some of your own. This might help you to grow up :baby04:


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

agmantoo said:


> http://www.ncrs.info/pictures.html[/QUOTE]
> Those are all fake... everyone knows that ATV's don't do damage like that!
> 
> 
> ahem cough cough....


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## RedneckPete (Aug 23, 2004)

Guess what folks. I did the google image search too. Agmantoo did the best post, he actually posted a couple of pictures that showed ruts that MAY have been 12 inches deep.

No one is disputing the fact that ATVs will rut a trail. I acknowledged this and gave the original poster realistic suggestions as to how to keep the ATVers off if she really wanted to. I did suggest that her analysis of two to three foot deep ruts was an exaggeration, and I maintain that position. ATVs don't make three foot deep ruts. Find me a picture of a adult man standing up to his WAIST in an ATV rut. It doesn't happen. Any idiot realizes that.

I'm not arguing the merit of protecting your land, nor defending trespassing. I AM pointing out that it is not necessary to overstate your case to gather attention to your cause.

Point out the FACT that ATVs are rutting your trails and the FACT that you don't like it. Enough said.

Pete


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

fantasymaker said:


> Lets make it worth your time to fix it.Go see a lawyer and tell him your situation. Tell him you want to start a ATV riders club. You are thinking about a lifetime membership for about $10,000 With no riding allowed till you have sold 10 memberships and constructed trail.
> Now if you can catch someone they have commited an offence with a value so ifyou cachthem you should be able to recover some bucks that not only helps you imakes them think about things.
> Next invest in a very good security camera system you want goods clear usable pictures.....happy hunting!!


Hey if I started this as a franchise how many would be willing to join?
Id supply signs cameras and legal work and In return keep any money I got out of the trespassers


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

Costco is having a sale on a 4 camera wireless motion detecting security camera set with recording base station for $300-odd dollars.


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## e.alleg (Jan 13, 2006)

ATV ruts will only be a foot deep at the most, the largest tires they make are 26" and most run 22-24" tires equalling a small rut, but most only have ground clearance of 8" until the skid plates hit anyway. If the ruts really are 2-3 feet deep you have a problem with farmers driving their tractors through there. I don't ride ATV's, I think they are noisy and a waste of money, but the only way to stop them is to put something large in the way like a tree so they find an alternate route. If they start chainsawing the tree stop and say hi.


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

Looks like this ATV rut is more than 3 ft. deep:










http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/200203/06_losurem_atv/index.shtml

http://www.bluewaternetwork.org/reports/rep_atv_socialeffects.pdf

http://home.interlog.com/~erhard/atvs_and_their_impact_on_canoein.htm

Scroll down the page to see a man standing in knee deep mud caused by ATVs:
http://www.yip.org/~erhard/atvs_and_their_impact_on_ski_trails.htm


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

The orginal rut may only be 12 in deep but then here comes the rain and if it is on a hill there goes the soil out of the rut into the streams or road ditches or worse into crop fields. I had a 4 wheeler because I am disabled and after riding it to the top of the mountain a couple time and seeing the tracks it left it found a new home real quick. It is sad to be driving in the country and see a set of ruts going up a hillside and watching them get bigger every year. After a few years another set appears beside them and here we go again. I allow no 4 wheeler on our property and if I were to chatch one it would likely become my property to be sold. No tresspassing signs here in WV still mean to stay off. Sam


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

those tires would look real sweet with a 1/2 diameter inch hunk of rebar hanging out of them.


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

You could put a motion sensor at each end of the trail that connects to an alarm in your house, then when the alarm goes off you high-tail it out there with a shotgun and a pocket of blanks and scare the beejeebers out of them.

(careful, blanks still shoot wadding and can be dangerous at close range).


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

You could put a motion sensor at each end of the trail that connects to an alarm in your house, then when the alarm goes off you high-tail it out there and scare the beejeebers out of them.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

lonelytree said:


> Like my new tires?


Love those wheels! Ive got a Polaris just like that, plus a 400 Sportsman and a 400 Express that are both 2-stroke engines


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## Guest (May 7, 2007)

MELOC said:


> those tires would look real sweet with a 1/2 diameter inch hunk of rebar hanging out of them.


I ride legal trails. I don't have to trespass. If someone is spiking my trails for their personal pleasure, I will HUNT THEM DOWN. :hobbyhors 

ATV's rut trails. Yes, it is true. So do wildlife, cattle, hogs, cars, trucks, bulldozers, roadgraders and many other things. 

The new tires are up to 29" and they will churn mud and eat hillsides.

It probably won't help to seek out the local ATV club. Most have bylaws prohibiting trespassing. Most belong to TREAD LIGHTLY.

The reason that ATV's are getting so much heat is that there are more and more of them. People like the freedom of riding. Unfortunately, there is only so much land set aside for such activities. People need recreational activities. 

There is a small number of ATVers illegally accessing a piece of land. Lets not get over emotional and blame all ATVers. Thats like saying that all homesteaders lack a dental plan.

Good thing you don't have moose buggies.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

there are at least 10 miles of legal state maintained trails less than a half mile from my house and i still get get atv riders trespassing on my small piece of the world. my big beef is when they screw up my hunting. i rely on legally harvested venison, usually taken from my forest, and i don't appreciate folks who can't respect private property. rebar is a friendlier solution than running my bramble trellis wire neck high across the trails. 

"no trespassing...bramble farming in progress"


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

> If it is woodlands and it is a footpath why not drop 15 - 20 trees across the trail at intervals. It is still possible to travel by foot, just difficult by snowmobile or atv.


Yes, I was thinking of dropping a pile of trees at the access routes, large deadfall sized, if I must. If they have to spend 2 hours moving deadfalls every week, eventually they would give up, I suppose. 


> It is possible the problem will disappear once gas reaches $6 per gallon.


LOL


> One EASY solution....Contact your local Game Warden (DNR, Wildlife Official, whatever) have them come out and see the problem. Once they arrive, give them permission to hunt/fish on your property. Trust me.....they will keep everyone else out and all it will cost you is a couple of deer/turkey per year.


 Another LOL  Actually, I do give a few neighbours permission to hunt throughout the year on the property, and they get pretty annoyed to catch others in there---and they have my blessings to tell them to get lost. The bonus is that these people know a lot of the trespassers, so legal action is made a little easier if they get busted a second time.


> You didn't even know the trail was rutted until your neighbour told you. So why exactly do you care?


The reason I haven't been out there lately is that I've been busy. But I couldn't enjoy those trails if I wanted to now because they are tore up and I don't relish riding my horse through that much rugged terrain. The spring water is sitting in the ruts---normally it would drain away but now it'll sit there, maybe evaporate by August if I'm lucky. 

I didn't realize that for me to be justified to complain, that I must use these trails on a specific, regular basis? It is not a matter of "if I don't use it, someone else can". I OWN this land, they do not, so I have the right to do whatever I want with it (or not).


> You are exaggerating with the two and three feet measurements, but I get your point.


I didn't say three feet, the other owner did, I didn't see those ruts. I "guesstimated" with the two-footers. Basically, wearing rubber boots, the ruts come up over them, to my knees---pretty close to two feet---keeping in mind that the mud is not only driven through, but pushed up to the sides of the trail.


> As the ground hardens, the ATVs will ride on the high (dry) points of the trail, pushing them down and filling in the ruts. Short of using heavy equipment, letting the ATVs continued access to the trail is almost undoubtedly the quickest and easiest way to level your trail.


Yeah right! We're talking trails in the woods! There is NO room to "drive around the muddy spots". The other owner was complaining also that he brought his tractor through there with his equipment he used to level out the trails and make them nice.....and the ATVers prompty tooted on through there and tore his trails up again. Can you see why he might be a little annoyed at that?


> Personally, I suggest you buy and ATV and start riding with the fellows. You might gain new insight, find a new source of fun and even make some new friends.


Um, actually I have driven ATVs before.....on some LEGAL trails that I PAID to use! I would never drive on trails that I suspected were private, where I was not welcome. 

When we bought THIS property it was with the plan to ride my horse on them (that would be, occasional rides of one or two horses, not a herd, so the trails would not be tore up from that) or for trail hikes. BOTH are out of the question now in the back woods, since the trails are tore up. 

Anyhow, looks like the deadfalls are going to be the best option right now (well, and contacting the authorities). I'm not into scattering nails, etc around. Again, I'm not looking to tick people off by destroying their ATVs or injure them, just make them go elsewhere.

As it stands, most of the land owners are NOT happy about the ATVs and snowmobiles, so there is a good chance that there will be a lot of blockades before winter comes. I think a lot of them didn't do much about the trespassing because they believed that it was their neighbours doing it and were trying to "be nice". Now that they know it's actually people who do NOT own land in the area, they are not so amiable about it. 

That is what I just don't get: people buy ATVs with no land of their own to use them, and assume that because there is a trail somewhere, it's fair game? That really paints fourwheeling people as being selfish and inconsiderate (and cheap). A property owner should not have to go to so much trouble to keep their property to themselves.  

**peace**


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

Dixy is there ANY chance it is a public trail? I know that right off the bat you dont think so but if its been there so long it might be, If it lays over an old trail it might be.if its part of an old easment it might be There are a TON of ways it might be . If at ANY time it EVER was a public trail it stays public FOREVER. So ask the oldtimers around there, get out that old 1880 plat book, the old areial pictures the Japanese took in 38 and the old topograpic map from 48 and look for evidence.
Where Im at there s a piblic road that the new owners keep pulling a cable across to them it proably just looks like a trail across their propertybut it is the ONLY actuall access to four seperate feilds on two different landowners. because of the way the creeks and propertylinesrun its veryconfusing and the feilds are small and the owners havent farmed them in a while but it is an established access.


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

I'm an ATV rider for many years so this is from riders experience.

Nails would probably not work. ATV tires will work pretty good with almost no air pressure. They won't notice they are low until they get to someplace where they can open it up and gain some speed. By that time, they will not be able to relate to getting the nail on your land.

There is another method that involves digging several deep ditches close to each other. That takes care of the 4WD Jeep type vehicles but does nothing for small ATVs. It actually creates a pretty interesting technical riding challenge to get over them so it does the opposite of what you want.

Gates with no fence on each side... easy ways around.

Actual fence.... nobody I know would ever cut a fence.

Logs across trail.... make sure they are 14" or bigger. Any smaller and they create a fun challenge. No knowing any better, some riders will think that the logs are just winter blowdowns. They would be tempted to use a chainsaw and clear for the 'benefit' of the other riders. If you go this route, put up a sign at the entrance to the trail saying 'trail closed'. They will get the idea. I think this is your best idea... in my riders experience of things that stop me cold.

Wire across the trail... you could kill somebody. Is that an extreme you want to go to?? Maybe try orange marking tape across the trail. Sure it will easily be broken thru but it will get the message across. Easy to replace. Be sure and put it at the entrance to the trail.

No tresspassing signs at entry to trail..... this would sure stop me and anyone I know. Maybe there are some riders that don't respect them but I don't know anyone like that. This is cheapest and easiest method when combined with the marking tape.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I see that my Hay Creek ATV damage site is messed up. The pictures aren't linking. I'll try to fix it tonight when I get home.

Logs don't work around here because the riders just come back with a chainsaw. Signs are either ignored or torn down. One solution might be to drop some trees across the trail and then take the chainsaw and cut grooves into the trunk. Fill the grooves with sand so when they try to cut through it dulls the teeth or drive a bunch of 16d nails out of sight into the trunk.

In MN trails that I grouse hunted for many years are now closed after a change of ownership. I contacted our DNR to see if was legal to use the trail to pass through the property to reach public land further in the woods and was told it would be illegal.

These photos (linked to ncrs site) below were taken after our state ATV organization held it's annual meeting. Supposedly ATV club members are the most responsible riders. 


http://www.ncrs.info/images/smgilbertatvam661.jpg

http://www.ncrs.info/images/smgilbertruts5-9-02-717.jpg

http://www.ncrs.info/images/smgilbertpallets5-9-02-702.jpg


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

fishhead said:


> In MN trails that I grouse hunted for many years are now closed after a change of ownership. I contacted our DNR to see if was legal to use the trail to pass through the property to reach public land further in the woods and was told it would be illegal.


After years involved with land law working for government let me assure you the people you talked with at DNR dont know hoot UNLESS they are either lawyers or the problem has come up and they contacted lawyers or there was just a big court case about it.

How long was that acess open there? Did you ask the folks at DNR how they knew the answer to your question? Is there other acess to the site?
And best of all did you ask the new owners if you could quietly walk across the old trail to your old haunt?


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

The first thing to do is understand the law. Speak with your local Law enforcement. Ask them for the specific sections of the code related to trespassing. 

Notify them that you have a problem (in writing to document the issue). Get your neighbors to file complaints. Always carry a disposable camera with you when you are out and about your property. Take photos and document any damage. If you can get pictures of the miscreants all the better.

If you encounter the individuals involved accept that there is a possiblity that they will be aggressive or downright hostile if you tell them (even politely) that they are trespassing and need to leave. How you deal with that is your decision. Personally I don't take kindly to people trying to buffalo me on my own property. 

Rather than blocking your trail along the length of your property you might want to consider making some larger piles of trees/brush layed out closer to your property line and blocking for a ways in either direction from the trail.

You might also consider planting a bunch of something thorny as well. 

I think the best thing to do is to take the time to catch them in the act. In Ohio the law allows anything used in illegal hunting to be confiscated (including ATVs, trucks, etc). Don't know what the law in your area is but in our local area the Game Wardens and Judges have gotten more aggressive about going after poachers/illegal hunters.

Just a few thoughts. Notwithstanding the folks who claim it's only a small problem (the ruts) or these folks aren't hurting anything, I figure that it's your property and if you have it posted then no means no.

Mike


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Dixy, first contact the OPP Rural Crime Team rep in your area. Just call the local detachment and ask to be put in contact with RACT. I've met the Eastern Ontario officers but I can't remember their names. They have lots of good ideas and they're about the only ones I know in the OPP that seem to take farm trespassing seriously.
If you're a registered farmer, or your neighbour, and these trespassers are travelling on planted or cultivated fields (including hay) or in a woodlot being used as part of a farm operation, you do NOT need to post anything in Ontario. Growing a crop, tilling, or managing a farm woodlot are considered exactly the same as posting the land, however, most police officers don't know this so you might need to get your local OFA or CFFO Member Service Representative (if you or your neighbour are members) to suggest ways to remind the police what the laws are.


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## bachelorb (Oct 4, 2005)

I've had the problem for years, finally by using deadfalls and gates, I've got them moving around on my neighbors land (They're like fireants, you can't stop them, you can only hope to divert them). I think the final nail was when I plowed a portion of the trail for a corn field. Poor fellers, it was so bumpy it musta jarred their tooth loose.


I do like the sign though....



jill.costello said:


> WARNING: I, the property OWNER, have scattered roofing nails all over this trail. By passing this point, you are agreeing that you have read and understand this warning and are entering at your own risk.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

e.alleg said:


> ATV ruts will only be a foot deep at the most, the largest tires they make are 26" and most run 22-24" tires equalling a small rut, but most only have ground clearance of 8" until the skid plates hit anyway. If the ruts really are 2-3 feet deep you have a problem with farmers driving their tractors through there. I don't ride ATV's, I think they are noisy and a waste of money, but the only way to stop them is to put something large in the way like a tree so they find an alternate route. If they start chainsawing the tree stop and say hi.


Its funny to me how those who "DONT RIDE ATV's" claim to know so much about them. Take a look at this picture and tell me how many passes it takes to throw enough dirt out of the hole to make it 3 feet deep.

http://www.az-bob.com/quadpics/2006/PICT1515.JPG

Each successive pass makes the hole a little deeper, and MUD wont stop an ATV. On hard DRY ground, your theory MIGHT apply, but dont confuse your THEORY with the reality that there are different trail conditions.


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> http://www.az-bob.com/quadpics/2006/PICT1515.JPG


Yo buddy! Now that's what its all about. Look at that smile. Any wonder why people like to quad?


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## RedneckPete (Aug 23, 2004)

Here's me with a helmet cam. I must know nothing about offroad adventures. Check out all the damage the ATVs did to the trails. Us poor folks on dirt bikes had to go around all the three foot deep ruts. It's all crown land BTW.

Pete

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=2374879145369545506&q=brough+lake


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## minnikin1 (Feb 3, 2003)

I love the idea of ID numbers on atv wheels and snowmobile tracks. 

I think when I send my letter requesting this legislation to our government officials, I will include some of the atv'er "attitude" posts from this and some other recent threads. 


I think that might help sell the idea.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> http://www.az-bob.com/quadpics/2006/PICT1515.JPG


the "key" is to dig the hole at least six feet deep with a backhoe, so when they splash 'in', they stay 'in'!

I have no problem with quads, as long as they stay away from me and mine... I do ride one, during deer season, to retrieve animals (I find it harder and harder to tote hogs and deer the three miles back to my hunting area).

We have some outlaws around here (doesn't everyone). I've had 'conversations' with them... philosophical discussions about the meaning of life, and whether they'd like to keep pondering, or stop pondering. There lives mean less to me than a skunk. After imparting these feelings, and letting em know I was serious as a heart attack, they haven't returned.


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## ricky (Jul 31, 2006)

RedneckPete said:


> You didn't even know the trail was rutted until your neighbour told you. So why exactly do you care?
> 
> Don't cry with the liability line. It's not near as bad in Canada as in the US, and if they are using your land without your position, you really have nothing to worry about. Trying to stop them with dangerous blockades is far more likely to cause a lawsuit should someone get hurt.
> 
> Pete


Peter thats a stupid question why does he care? Its his land that he paid for thats why. Is canada that far removed form reality? :help:


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

logbuilder said:


> Yo buddy! Now that's what its all about. Look at that smile. Any wonder why people like to quad?


To me it's nothing more than vandalization for some self centered enjoyment.

There are proper places like constructed trails within confined areas but to do this to another persons property (including public property) is just plain selfish.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I can't remember who I asked but I would assume that land access is a current and researched issue with all the closings happening as our state gets sliced and diced into postage stamp properties.

Getting to talk with the new landowner is difficult because most live in the metro or other states.




fantasymaker said:


> After years involved with land law working for government let me assure you the people you talked with at DNR dont know hoot UNLESS they are either lawyers or the problem has come up and they contacted lawyers or there was just a big court case about it.
> 
> How long was that acess open there? Did you ask the folks at DNR how they knew the answer to your question? Is there other acess to the site?
> And best of all did you ask the new owners if you could quietly walk across the old trail to your old haunt?


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## BTO (Feb 7, 2007)

DixyDoodle said:


> Ok, at the risk of starting yet another thread about whether someone has the right to trespass or not, please let me just say that I don't want to get into that! I think it's safe to say we've pretty much exhausted THAT topic for awhile.
> 
> What I need is some tips for stopping people from trespassing, specifically with their ATVs.
> 
> ...


We had this problem in Maine until a new state law was passed by the legislature. ATVs now have to have written property owners permission on them for EACH property they are riding on. It's great because it eliminates having to post your property if you don't want to allow ATVs on your trails. The state game wardens enforce the law and will patrol your trails if the landowner is having problems. I would contact your local state representative. :hobbyhors


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## mtn.mama (Apr 20, 2007)

Here's what we do to stop trespassers from using and ruining the private access trails across the land that we paid dearly and work hard to take care of. Its called a ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY.

This of course is in addition to gates and signs and alot of random gunfire.

First, when the property adjacent to me came up for sale, I worked hard to sell it to the meanest vet around. This has been my best defense- because he's not afraid to shoot past people, put up razor wire, get in people's faces, etc.

Second, anytime I see tracks on the trail that don't belong to me or my neighbor I call the troopers. They have a file on my place and the problems I've had. When I identify a trespasser I send certified letters to the criminal and to the troopers to the effect that I will prosecute to the fullest extent possible.

Third, I have used spike strips carefully camoflauged- but not as often as I'd like- because I worry about retribution.

Fourth, I have put up fake cameras, signs about cameras, and the occasional real camera.

I would do large deadfalls in key areas, but I use the trail daily.

Finally, I carry a 44 mag strapped to my chest about 8 months out of the year (actually for bears but the criminals don't know that). I make it clear that I will take care of myself and my property.

Oh, and anytime I find a vehicle... it becomes seriously disabled.

Lisa


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Pete,

tresspassing is a problem for most land owners.

I deal with each year. I free range my birds 600 of them and a family of 3 lives on that. I plant for the birds and it cost me dearly. Tresspassers do not care--But I do.

Over the years it has gotten better but durring certain times of the year -Dip season and hunting season I have to stop what I am doing and be on guard to protect my land from people who do not read very well.

Since there is only one in and out once they go in I block them. I act crazy (not hard to do) and I take the keys. So far every time it has ended well. No repete customers. The troopers are called and I too live in a state that allows me to carry a gun and SHOOT a criminal. I tend to remind the drives of that fact. 

My newest sign in the works is

Question:
When does the public road end and my private driveway begin?
Answer:
100 feet behind you at the gate posted private property No tresspassers allowed.

you are now entering a childs practice gun range on private property YOU should not be here


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## lmnde (Sep 25, 2006)

Dixiedoodle - you have a horse - logic follows you have horse manure??? 

Dump a truckload into your worst + wettest ruts [with your horse you can ride safely around them and with a bit time they get composted and incorporated - no hardware to damage your horse or wildlife]. I have seen the weekend warriors [as they are called here where we just bought our new acreage] "play" in ditches, puddles and down in the creek [which is really low right now due to drought] up to their hips deep and digging deeper just for the fun of it [I've also seen a lot of squished and damaged turtles afterwards!]. It's one thing to play in the ditch or creek - it's another thing to get splattered with manure from top to bottom [pig or cow manure are even grosser than horse!].

In addition to property line gates/signs, you might also want to consider simply putting 2-3 internal [somewhere in the middle of your property] gates with "Trail closed" signs up - similar to a simple bar type on short swinging chains [poles left and right with a pole supended on 1' sturdy chains in the middle, about 2.5-3' tall], preferably right around a corner somewhere where it is not visible from well ahead, and where it is hard to get around [thick undergrowth to the right and left]. This is easy to make, easy to remove when its all done and over, and cheap too. Chainsaw, a bag of concrete if you can't use the stumps of the trees felled, and a bit of chain.

Also a wooden 3 or 4 bar fence along your major in/outs - again liberally posted with No Trespassing signs, with the fence well reaching beyond preferred entrances to your property might work better than a single gate or a chain or cable at that point.

Good luck to ya! Lmnde


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## lmnde (Sep 25, 2006)

*



I ride legal trails. I don't have to trespass. If someone is spiking my trails for their personal pleasure, I will HUNT THEM DOWN.

Click to expand...

If they are legal trails - they are A - still not your trails, and B - you shouldn't have to worry about ticking someone off by using them, right?




So do wildlife, cattle, hogs, cars, trucks, bulldozers, roadgraders and many other things.

Click to expand...

 Give me a break! Cars, trucks, bulldozers and road graders are generally not on public trails  [and especially cars won't get very far there anyway], and if they are - chances are the first 3 are on private property, and the last two are doing public [or private] road work or construction. 
Cattle and hogs, I think I am safe to say, are not on public trails either - but on privately owned property where they belong and you obviously not. Lets not even get into wildlife - they belong, and their tracks and paths are not even close to what ATV tracks look like!

We just bought 8 acres way out in the country - and I have looked at a lot of vacant as well as improved land in this general area - with many having obvious ATV tracks/paths running through some of them with fences cut and ripped back, or simply trampled down and run over, and made my buying decision accordingly. I have also noticed that cleared land or thinned out woods are high on the trespassing lists there, and wildly overgrown acreage less so. Speaking to some of my neighbors - most of which have fencing up which looks fairly new to brand new - this is a growning problem and only way to avoid it is fencing and dogs [big ones] or a thick undergrowth barrier around the outer property lines.

Lmnde*


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

If you can find good gear for yourself to handle it, try transplanting some very large poison oak or poison ivy plants across the middle of the 'trail', rooted in each of the ruts (filled in with great soil so that they grow like the wind).


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

Is there a nice chemical stain to fill ruts with? How about a very pungent hard to remove stench?


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

fantasymaker said:


> Is there a nice chemical stain to fill ruts with? How about a very pungent hard to remove stench?



i was thinking of skunk scent bombs, lol. i was going to post that yesterday.


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## minnikin1 (Feb 3, 2003)

Great ideas and at least one them solved 2 problems for me - 
a way to discourage trespassers and a place to dump all the dog doo 
I pick up in the pastures.


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

CRESOTE WOULD WORK BUT WOULD BE ILL EAGLE WOODEN IT? :help:


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

> Ok, at the risk of starting yet another thread about whether someone has the right to trespass or not, please let me just say that I don't want to get into that! I think it's safe to say we've pretty much exhausted THAT topic for awhile.


Um, did I say that? LOL I guess it just follows to reason: talk about trespassing in any regard and the tpoic turns to "who should be where"?  


> Dixiedoodle - you have a horse - logic follows you have horse manure??? Dump a truckload into your worst + wettest ruts....


LOL I doubt that would work, but the concept is pretty funny!

DaleK, thanks, I will do that.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I'm of the opinion that if someone is trespassing, it doesn't matter if I notice them, or if they are causeing damage. Tresspassers are as bad as thieves.
I wonder if the old bucket of paint trick would teach them anything?
Set up a trip wire and dump a gallon of paint al over them and their quad.
A variation is a compessed air cannon with a baloon filled with paint or dye aimed right for the trip point.
Be creative and have fun with it.
Post a sign stating the charge for riding the trail is $50.00 per machine per day. 
Heck, make it $100.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Oh, here's another idea.
If you find out who did it, go drive your car on their lawn. Same thing.


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## lmnde (Sep 25, 2006)

Trust me - it works as long as they realize it is manure! It needs to be a lot like a trailer full or a truckbed full - a wheelbarrow full isn't going to cut it, and put it into the wettest spots where it can stand and kinda liquify a bit - the ones that the ATV riders like to "wallow" around in for the heck of it to make them deeper and more exiting! It'll be exiting alright when they realize what they wallow in! Literally!

Lmnde [sorry for anybody who thinks it's gross - but it does work - tried and proven as a different deterrent for somebody else, LOL.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

DD: 

Rural and Agricultural Crime Team

Ontario Provincial Police
Eastern Region Headquarters
3312 County Road 43 East
P.O. Box 2020
Smiths Falls, ON
K7A 5K8

Phone: (613) 284-4500
Fax: (613) 284-4597

OFA trespassing fact sheet: (Posted with permission)
From www.ofa.on.ca

Farmers: Trespass and Occupiers Liability

Anyone entering private property without legal authority or the permission of the occupier is guilty of an offence under the Trespass to Property Act. The burden of proof is on the accused. 

The Trespass to Property Act, and its companion, the Occupiers' Liability Act, were enacted in 1980 to protect the rights of occupiers, while allowing them to control activities on their property. An "occupier" is one in legal possession of land; either a landowner or a tenant. The protected premises include land, water and buildings, including portable structures.

Signs are a common way to show if a property is âopenâ for public use or not. While signs may be used to show when entry is prohibited, entry to some rural property is prohibited even without the use of signs. Under section 3(1) of the Trespass to Property Act, entry is prohibited without signs;

to a âgarden, field or other land under cultivation, including a lawn, orchard or vineyardâ (fields are "under cultivation" whether seeded or not; snow covered fields are "under cultivation" if seeded), 
to any property where trees have been planted but have not grown to an average height of 6Â½â (2 metres), 
to woodlots on land used primarily for agricultural purposes, or 
to land enclosed in a way that shows the occupier's intention to keep people off or animals on the premises. 
Occupiers can use signs to show which activities they allow. When choosing signs, the be sure that the signs reflect your true wishes. Signs prohibiting one activity only refer to that activity; not to any unnamed activities. For example, a "No Fishing" sign only prohibits fishing; not hiking or hunting! To prohibit all activities use a "No Trespassing", "No Entry", "Entry Prohibited" or "Keep Out" sign. The use of signs does not affect your right to give individuals permission to use your land.

Signs used to prohibit or restrict entry to property must conform to the Act. They can show your wishes through symbols or words. All signs must be clearly visible in daylight and placed at every normal point of access to the property.

The Act gives occupiers, in addition to the police, the power to arrest trespassers. However, if the trespasser is an armed hunter, call the police! If the trespasser damages your property, the courts can award you up to $1000 compensation for damages by the trespasser. To recover damages over $1000, you must sue the trespasser in court. 

Some people have the legal authority to enter private property through their job without the threat of prosecution. Land surveyors, utility meter readers, public health inspectors and conservation authority staff are a few examples. If in doubt, ask the person for their identification and authority to enter your property. 

The companion to the Trespass to Property Act is the Occupiers' Liability Act. It defines the rights of occupiers and their responsibilities toward people who enter their land.

Before 1980, the law governing occupiers' liability was complex and discouraged people from allowing recreational use of their land. The Occupiers' Liability Act established a basic "duty of care" that an occupier owes to the users of his/her property. It also sets out when this basic "duty of care" does not apply. 

The standard measurement of the basic "duty of care" is what a reasonable person would do under the circumstances. For example, while it may be reasonable for a farmer to not erect fences around his land, it would be unreasonable for a construction company not to erect a fence around an excavation site in a city or town. 

The basic "duty of care" does not apply to all situations. Exemptions include; 

people who enter for criminal purposes are considered to have assumed all risks; however, this does not give you the right to set traps or create hazards, 
entrants to rural property who do not have permission to enter (trespassers) are responsible for their own safety, 
nonpaying entrants to rural property are responsible for their own safety when using rural property for permitted recreational purposes, or 
people who know the risks and choose to accept responsibility for their injury when they enter the premises; for example the spectators at a hockey game know they risk being hit by a puck flying into the stands and they accept this risk when they purchase a ticket. 
For more information on either the Trespass to Property Act or the Occupiers' Liability Act, contact your OFA Member Service Representative or our head office in Guelph.

Revised January 2005


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## Sgt.Sausage (Jun 1, 2006)

==>You are exaggerating with the two and three feet measurements, but I get your point.

Not. I've several in my back yard (of my own doing) that are 2+ feet deep. 

==>What you may NOT realize is this. As the ground hardens, the ATVs will ride on the high (dry) points of the trail, pushing them down and filling in the ruts. Short of using heavy equipment, letting the ATVs continued access to the trail is almost undoubtedly the quickest and easiest way to level your trail.

I call shenanigans on that one. After 5 years, mine keep getting deeper and deeper. They do *not* fill in. Think about it. If this were the case, us poor nutjobs with gravel driveways would never have to have them graded. The cars would simply fill 'em in every once in a while. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN. As with cars and driveways, neither does it happen to trails with ATVs. 

You, sir, are a moron. 

NOTE: I only use mine on my own property. Except when traveling on the trailer from the point of purchase to my home, and an annual dear hunting trip (to land we (wife and I) own), it's never been off my property, and I see no reason to do so.


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## bluebird2o2 (Feb 14, 2007)

My dad had the same trouble with dirt bikes a few years ago.we started cutting firewood some big trees fell onto the trails oops.bluebird


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## RedneckPete (Aug 23, 2004)




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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I fixed the Hay Creek ATV damage website. That's the last time I try to edit a site when I'm in a hurry to get to bed. I also overwrote the main site homepage. Ooops!

http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/dnrdocuments/HayCreek.html

The pictures are thumbnails so you can enlarge them by clicking on the photo.


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