# Part of Emergency Preparedness is Knowing When to Keep Quiet



## mypatriotsupply (Jan 21, 2009)

We've all read the stories. In various cities all across the country residents are being fined and even threatened with jail because their vegetable gardens are in violation of the local city ordinance. 

Now the State of Utah is making a push to get all residents to "register" their gardens. 

As is the common ploy the initial move to require registration is being presented as a "contest" with a chance to "win" something. 

From the web site promoting this registration process:

*"Whether you grow a tomato in a pot, a row in a community garden, have backyard gardens, a CSA or working fruit and vegetable farm, we want to hear from you..."*

This push towards registration of your backyard gardens (or even potted plants) is spearheaded by the Utah Department of Agriculture and Food (UDAF). 

In my humble opinion this is a prime example of incrementalism. Currently this is a voluntary act where individuals are strongly persuaded to participate. For those on the fence a carrot (no pun intended) is dangled in front of your face to encourage you to give up your privacy in exchange for a chance at winning a meager prize. 

As history has taught us, the next logical step is the presentation that this is actual law - and you can be certain they will point to all of the people who voluntarily registered for the contest and they'll be able to say "Look, thousands of other people have registered - why not you?"

Eventually this will be viewed as another source of revenue, and in addition to the registration there will be a "permit" attached with a small fee to cover the cost of processing the "registrations".

In my humble opinion one of the most important things when practicing Emergency Preparedness is knowing when to keep your mouth shut. This would be one of those times.

Reference: Utah's Garden Challenge
Reference: Utah Department of Agriculture and Food
Reference: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFX_vKYcGlc&feature=share]Utah wants to Register Gardens! Agenda 21? - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Interesting that as I read your post I realized that my truck is registered as a "Farm Truck" in the Great state of Alaska. I may need to change that.


----------



## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

I agree and disagree. Here you are required to have an annual inspection on any bee hives. The cost is minimal, and I believe the state actually loses money on the deal. They're mainly looking for American Foul Brood which is a major killer of colonies and africanized bees. What I gain use a new bee keeper is lots of knowledge and help with my hives. I lost a hive last year and the inspector did a split for me so that I can get that hive back going again. They also offer a voluntary additional registration at no cost that states that the bees are European and not African so that it will offer some legal protection incase someone gets stung. Without privacy fences or a lot of land its hard to hide multiple hives so keeping quite is hard to do without someone noticing anyway.

I do agree however that there is too much registration and government involvement. I will say though that the hives are supposed to have your registration number on them and I still haven't gotten around to putting it on mine and the inspector has never said a word about it.


----------



## mypatriotsupply (Jan 21, 2009)

Government involvement in something that is designed around protecting the individual rights of others is acceptable in some cases. 

The only killer vegetables I'm aware of aren't grown in the majority of back yard gardens. I think they are barking up the wrong tree.

Again, just my opinion.


----------



## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I agree with your opinion.


----------



## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

Any time a person welcomes ".gov" into their lives and property, is a big risk. I see it as a way to inventory available resources in the event of emergency, primarily. Besides, once you are "registered", the property is likely to be added to the ATA, the baby of NAIS. 

I do not think it's necessary for the government to know what tomatoes and celery I grow. I don't think they'll get much participation from the Mormon community there.


----------



## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

I have quit talking about prepping to anyone. I use to and it fell on deaf ears. I sure don't want the government into my family garden.


----------



## DavidUnderwood (Jul 5, 2007)

The less ANYONE knows about your buisness, the
better off you will be. Nobody needs to know about
your garden, stored food, guns, medical info, nobody.


----------



## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

mypatriotsupply said:


> Government involvement in something that is designed around protecting the individual rights of others is acceptable in some cases.
> 
> The only killer vegetables I'm aware of aren't grown in the majority of back yard gardens. I think they are barking up the wrong tree.
> 
> Again, just my opinion.


I think the main reason they do the hive inspections is to look for disease since the bee population has been suffering for awhile now. All but one they'll just tell you what you need to do to treat. The one they're mainly looking for while get the infected hive destroyed. However, that hive would be lost anyhow since bringing it back isn't likely. The protection is just a plus. Gardens are a whole another story. Luckly the only thing thats plainly visible from my hive location is my persimmon trees I planted for the wildlife. I am going to be working in the coming years as I add hives to have some in other locations.

I would like to comment on what DavidU said. I think that sharing some information can be useful. I have a coworker that I became friends with that lives near me. He is building his own home himself even though he has limited experience. We help each other out by offering ideas ot manual labor. He didn't have his house secured and his gf didn't want guns stored at her place so I helped him out. He's given me stuff out of his garden and I've offered him firewood. I think that some prep information can be shared. Just have to use discretion.


----------



## uhcrandy (Sep 16, 2010)

I read all the links, and read this to be a volantary program. No where did it say it was manditory. The motives seem benign also. Although I would never register.


----------



## Guest (Aug 10, 2012)

Looks like they are promoting vegetable gardening. With the coming food shortages, every one should have a garden.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

IMO, bee testing is one way the states can help protect not only your colony but other nearby colonies. They test for disease at a cost which is less than you could probably get the test done yourself and in Ohio they also help if you have any bee keeping problems.

But my tomatoes are not going to run across the street and pollinate my neighbors tomatoes. Nor will my beans go down the road and transfer rust to another bean patch.

I would have been wary of the part where the "auctioneer" mentioned mapping the gardens. So who all would have access to such a map? And to list the types of crops and the size of the garden and the reason you grow the garden is a bit TMI for my taste. I personally would not register and I would slap dh's hand if he tried to register.


----------



## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Since I don't have bees, I can't think of any "happy" encounters with the government in any way, shape, or form. I wouldn't register if it was mandatory.


----------



## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

I have never claimed to be anything officially.....garden animals what have you.....call it civil disobedience if you like but....its information I don't want to give....fees I dont want to pay...and regulation I don;t have time for....period.


----------



## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

As long as I am acting lawfully I would see new rules and fees as intrusive. "Papering" a garden is going too far and I am the type to try to see the accidental stupidity of .gov vs. harmful intent. There comes a time when trying to be polite and law abiding turns into being a sucker.

Even so, I don't see a sinister plot afoot, that requires actual intelligence. I would lean toward suspecting another of many "creative" ways to initiate new taxes from thin air to feed a failing budget.

Bearing all that in mind, people who garden are a huge minority. It would be much smarter and safer to implement a carbonated beverage tax because the extra CO2 increases global warming. : )


----------



## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" - Ronald Reagan.


----------



## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Wow.Just wow.


----------



## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

I don't have a garden.... I have pretty plants in my sunroom. They have pretty flowers then they drop these messy red and green things all over the floor.:angel:


----------



## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

I agree some inspections are for the good of the population. There have been problems with bees hives which are serious in nature. Also big farms with hundreds of acres of wheat or potatoes or whatever can get infected and spread diseases if left unchecked. That is what inspectors look for. 
The real problem is how planting is done. Instead of diversifying ;all corn or all potatoes or all anything is planted. When a problem starts it spreads quickly through a field.If fields were smaller and had several crops a potential threat in one crop; like potatoes for example ;wouldn' t wipe out all the potato crop because other potaoes would be in a different field.Ofcourse diversified planting won't happen on most farms because of th economic factor of farming that way. That is why there are inspections of farms.

However the small family farmer or gardener is very unlikely to have the problems big commercial farms have because the smaller gardens are diversified. Many varieties of vegetables are planted in small plots which makes a healthier garden.

I can think of no practical reason for inspectors to track the normal family garden or for registration to be an issue or licenseing except as a money grab by government. Some times those making descions sit behind a desk and have no practical experience either farming or gardening.Others may be sincere in their intentions but are ill informed and ill advised by other people who also have no first hand experience gardening or farming.

The other issue of not allowing front yard gardens is so ridiculous! With poor economics everyone should be encouraged to grow as much food to help feed themselves as possible if they are physically able to do the work.I grew veggies among the flowers and around the perimeter of my house and in the back yard when I had little money and four kids to feed! There are also edible flowers like Nasturims and dandilions which no one could complain about being in the fromt yard. Just don't tell anyone why you are tending your flowers so often! Some things are best kept to oneself.

Can you imagine how North America would have ever got settled if our fore-fathers had been faced with restrictions on what they could grow and where they could grow it; or if there had been building codes for log cabins? They would not have survived and the rest of us wouldn't be here discussing these issues!


----------



## wally (Oct 9, 2007)

No garden or orchard on my farm.. oh the cows must have gotten into the barn when they escaped from the guy next door..I hate leaving the barn doors open during deer season as several times deer have commited suiside (sp) by hangng them selves upside down then the rats eat the guts out of them..


----------



## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

Of course the government has an interest in your gardens. The total backyard acreage planted with tomatoes, beans, melons etc. is suppressing interstate commerce. Think of all the taxes not being collected because you won't buy some tasteless green picked frankenfruit at the store.


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Picturing govt workers with lists of where people grow food coming to confiscate it for the "greater good" in the event of a disaster.


----------



## trulytricia (Oct 11, 2002)

Once in a great while I will go read again about what Stalin did to the Ukraine, Each time it seems something different stands out. Today it was this...

"Stalin also imposed the Soviet system of land management known as collectivization. This resulted in the seizure of all privately owned farmlands and livestock, in a country where 80 percent of the people were traditional village farmers. Among those farmers, were a class of people called Kulaks by the Communists. They were formerly wealthy farmers that had owned 24 or more acres, or had employed farm workers. Stalin believed any future insurrection would be led by the Kulaks, thus he proclaimed a policy aimed at "liquidating the Kulaks as a class."
The History Place - Genocide in the 20th Century: Stalin's Forced Famine 1932-33


It can happen here. The government sees freedom lovers and people who do for themselves as a threat.


----------



## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

With 30,000 Domestic Drones they will soon know everything about you. This ain't the America I was born too.


----------



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I refused the census, told the woman to come back with a warrent,refuse to awnser the ag surveys,will not tag my animals,don't use a charge card,checking account,ect.ect why in the heck would I even consider telling the gov. about my garden. Just insane.


----------



## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Sourdough said:


> With 30,000 Domestic Drones they will soon know everything about you. This ain't the America I was born too.


That was my original thought- with all the drones, they don't need us to register anything anymore.

If you look at most states, I think you will find that they have programs similar to this - I know there's one in MI attached to grants and community gardens. Take a look at your own state ag dept. and see.

This is also one of the ways they promote gardening. They know what kinds of studies to make that will help the most people. Do they need to do more studies on soybean production in Ut? or maybe melons for the home gardener? Kind of putting your tax money to work in the most effective areas. There is nothing wrong with the govt promoting gardening. I'm glad ot see it. So much research is going to commercial producers. I'd love to see more information for the home gardener.

I think you are all getting paranoid. There is no attachment to this that says you HAVE to register your garden. You only register if you want to be included in the prizes as well as informational publications. if you don't want it - don't register.


----------



## mypatriotsupply (Jan 21, 2009)

Maybe I am off my rocker, but in my eyes this is a very clear and precise move that mimics the introduction of other controls, erosion of privacy, and restriction of rights. I see it as the beginning of something, painted up nice and pretty which will transform itself into something none of us want. On the surface it appears entirely harmless.

But there have been very few times in the history of this planet where governments have encouraged citizens to be more self reliant and independent. The very method of mass control relies upon keeping a population dependent. 

I don't believe for a minute that this program was only derived by people with the best intentions and concern for promoting self sustainability. Not saying that there may not be some good hearted, naive people involved - but it doesn't match up with everything else we know and that history has taught us. 

They love their lists, by golly, and nothing ever good comes from those lists.


----------



## trulytricia (Oct 11, 2002)

Why in the world would we need to pay the government to teach and encourage gardening? 

The only 'good ' here is for the person who gets to have that nice cushy government job.


----------



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

mypatriotsupply said:


> Maybe I am off my rocker, but in my eyes this is a very clear and precise move that mimics the introduction of other controls, erosion of privacy, and restriction of rights. I see it as the beginning of something, painted up nice and pretty which will transform itself into something none of us want. On the surface it appears entirely harmless.
> 
> But there have been very few times in the history of this planet where governments have encouraged citizens to be more self reliant and independent. The very method of mass control relies upon keeping a population dependent.
> 
> ...


I do too. I think we are tested all of the time,what we will be gullable to. If anyone doughts how zombies think,watch- Hard Core Pawn. I've had a couple of jobs on 8 Mile-the program/people is/are for real.


----------



## Farmer Willy (Aug 7, 2005)

I've always been curious as to why some folks want to volunteer so much information about themselves. This went through the roof with the entire social networking/twitter/myspace/facebook look at me movement. Even here on the board folks are quick to post every detail of their lives and such. Seems that talking about "how to" is sliding into "I have...". or, maybe, just maybe I'm not really paranoid and they really are out to get me.


----------



## Guest (Aug 11, 2012)

mypatriotsupply said:


> Maybe I am off my rocker, but in my eyes this is a very clear and precise move that mimics the introduction of other controls, erosion of privacy, and restriction of rights. I see it as the beginning of something, painted up nice and pretty which will transform itself into something none of us want. On the surface it appears entirely harmless.
> 
> But there have been very few times in the history of this planet where governments have encouraged citizens to be more self reliant and independent. The very method of mass control relies upon keeping a population dependent.
> 
> ...


Couldn't this possibly get you some new customers?


----------



## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Only prepared food is taxed here, for the state to require registration would violate law IMO as it would in effect be taxing of food.

Come to think of it, there are quite a few things on the books that could be challenged under this premise.

But I agree with MPS that this is a baby step to more control. With my dogs I call it training, I suppose with people its better termed conditioning or desensitizing.


----------



## maverickxxx (Jan 25, 2011)

I do agree is how they start laws an they will be regulating size quantity what types of mulch variteys of vegatbles u can grow. When to plant. When to harvest. An after a bunch of years u won't be able to harvest from them as u will be effecting the natural Eco system u created an if u fail to maintain that Eco system properly u will be fined. If govt wanted to promote gardening it won't be middle of summer an they would give free seeds an it would be started through some sorta social services first as they would be the ones with first crack at free stuff. Also govt would give tax incentive for people to grow there own garden. It's defiantly a way to moniter potential revenue.


----------



## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

I would not apply. 
Mostly just cuz i would not be interested. 
However in some ways the cynic in me says that in the back of someones mind they will keep a list of where to go for food if things get ugly.


----------



## sandsuncritters (Nov 18, 2011)

lmrose said:


> I agree some inspections are for the good of the population. There have been problems with bees hives which are serious in nature. Also big farms with hundreds of acres of wheat or potatoes or whatever can get infected and spread diseases if left unchecked. That is what inspectors look for.
> The real problem is how planting is done. Instead of diversifying ;all corn or all potatoes or all anything is planted. When a problem starts it spreads quickly through a field.If fields were smaller and had several crops a potential threat in one crop; like potatoes for example ;wouldn' t wipe out all the potato crop because other potaoes would be in a different field.Ofcourse diversified planting won't happen on most farms because of th economic factor of farming that way. That is why there are inspections of farms.
> 
> However the small family farmer or gardener is very unlikely to have the problems big commercial farms have because the smaller gardens are diversified. Many varieties of vegetables are planted in small plots which makes a healthier garden.
> ...


The bolded part - I just love this! It would make a great siggy :nanner:

In His Love
Mich


----------



## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

It's right up there with sign up for this or for that contest... of course they want your address, telephone # and email too... but hey, you could win a prize!!!

OK, so maybe I'm a little paranoid too..


----------



## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

trulytricia said:


> Why in the world would we need to pay the government to teach and encourage gardening?
> 
> The only 'good ' here is for the person who gets to have that nice cushy government job.


We are paying them and have been for generations. That's what the dept of Ag does....as does state extension services. And I think your 2nd thought there is more why they do programs like promoting gardens- to give someone with a desk something to do...much more so than to try to collect information on us. I'm not saying that I don't think that there are some dangerous things going on. But do you really think they need you to register that you have a garden to know that you have one? I think not. Check your own home on google earth.


----------



## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Callieslamb said:


> We are paying them and have been for generations. That's what the dept of Ag does....as does state extension services. And I think your 2nd thought there is more why they do programs like promoting gardens- to give someone with a desk something to do...much more so than to try to collect information on us. I'm not saying that I don't think that there are some dangerous things going on. But do you really think they need you to register that you have a garden to know that you have one? I think not. Check your own home on google earth.


The pict of my house on google earth was taken in 97.


----------



## trulytricia (Oct 11, 2002)

Callieslamb said:


> We are paying them and have been for generations. That's what the dept of Ag does....as does state extension services. And I think your 2nd thought there is more why they do programs like promoting gardens- to give someone with a desk something to do...much more so than to try to collect information on us. I'm not saying that I don't think that there are some dangerous things going on. But do you really think they need you to register that you have a garden to know that you have one? I think not. Check your own home on google earth.



I see what you mean.

And yes the powers that be want to grow the government instead of the pruning back so desperately needed.


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I would like to suggest that those idiots who "think up" this stuff should be subject to -----water boarding----------


----------



## Mutti (Sep 7, 2002)

My DH was a bee inspector in MI and he would tell me tales of how people tried to avoid him. Most big beeyards were registered but many "hobby" type weren't and people would get really nasty if he stopped by after spotting them and wanted to check them. Unfortunately, they often were riddled with disease...but so were the big guys. Not like he enjoyed burning peoples' hives, No inspection here in MO and we know exactly who brought mites with them when they moved to our area and started renting out hives. They are out of business now but their legacy lives on. If the inspector can help you keep your bees healthy let him in. With all the current problems with bees if behooves us all to do our best to care for our hives....be beekeepers, not havers....

On the other hand it will be a cold cold day when I register my garden! If I have hornworms or blister beetles I'll take care of 'em myself in an organic way,thank you very much.


----------



## Space Cowboy (Apr 26, 2008)

veggiecanner said:


> Couldn't this possibly get you some new customers?


Veggiecanner, I am a very cynical man. There are some things that are mentioned on Matts website, that I don't agree with. But I find his company a very uncommon one. I don't go down the streets like Diogenes looking for an honest man. But when I do find someone like that, I WILL give them my respect/business.

Just because he is in business does not mean you should disrespect anything he says. Despite what our president says, business is NOT evil.

SC


----------



## mypatriotsupply (Jan 21, 2009)

I appreciate the kind words. And I most certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me all of the time. 

As far as "could this get me new customers" I believe you mean a government push towards gardening? My response is that I wouldn't want to become more successful because of something that has a list attached to it. I think we can all agree that more people attaining a higher level of self reliance is a good thing, but I wouldn't want this to happen at a cost of privacy.


----------



## Pelenaka (Jul 27, 2007)

Sounds like manna from marketing heaven, those lists would then be sold. Years before the internet was common NYS use to sell my name & addy to any company that was remotely related to nursing. 
I think that there is more to the story.

The smart alec in me wants to go sign up as a hemp gardener, lol. 

~~ pelenaka ~~


----------



## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

I would be less concerned by Utah doing this than any other state due to the huge Mormon population and their push for preparedness. 
Nevertheless there is always the opportunity for the government to turn something good into something bad.

Would I personally register my garden? never - its behind a privacy fence but I suppose a low flying drone could locate it.


----------



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Pelenaka said:


> Sounds like manna from marketing heaven, those lists would then be sold. Years before the internet was common NYS use to sell my name & Addy to any company that was remotely related to nursing.
> I think that there is more to the story.
> 
> The smart alec in me wants to go sign up as a hemp gardener, lol.
> ...


Got that right. My little story- Back in the 70's I sent a note to a dog food co. about how well my pup was doing on their food. They sent me some coupons for the food addressed in my dogs first name and my last name.Next thing, I started receiving credit card applications -for my dog. Yesterday I looked at a genealogy site, there is my Dog, registered as my son. I have no children.


----------



## trulytricia (Oct 11, 2002)

And as far as the government teaching gardening I thank God I learned on my own . Otherwise all the wonder and joy could have been sapped right out leaving me with taking years to get over the boring lessons all the while thinking I hated the subject.


----------



## Guest (Aug 14, 2012)

mypatriotsupply said:


> I appreciate the kind words. And I most certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me all of the time.
> 
> As far as "could this get me new customers" I believe you mean a government push towards gardening? My response is that I wouldn't want to become more successful because of something that has a list attached to it. I think we can all agree that more people attaining a higher level of self reliance is a good thing, but I wouldn't want this to happen at a cost of privacy.


I meant you could get more customers if more people were getting interested in gardening, not that you would use those lists.
I really do think this is more about getting people to grow their own food though. i guess the drought is getting bad.


----------



## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

7thswan said:


> Got that right. My little story- Back in the 70's I sent a note to a dog food co. about how well my pup was doing on their food. They sent me some coupons for the food addressed in my dogs first name and my last name.Next thing, I started receiving credit card applications -for my dog. Yesterday I looked at a genealogy site, there is my Dog, registered as my son. I have no children.


That is funny! though the deviant in me is thinking and mind you I think this goes hand in hand with the "Knowing when to be quite".
Knowing such Disinformation can be just as important.
Putting out info for Awe and confusion has sometimes been very beneficial to me. 
So go ahead and fill out those questioners and surveys just don't give them the inside track.


----------



## mypatriotsupply (Jan 21, 2009)

7thswan said:


> Got that right. My little story- Back in the 70's I sent a note to a dog food co. about how well my pup was doing on their food. They sent me some coupons for the food addressed in my dogs first name and my last name.Next thing, I started receiving credit card applications -for my dog. Yesterday I looked at a genealogy site, there is my Dog, registered as my son. I have no children.


Oh my, that is too funny! I regularly receive credit card applications to the names Thomas Jefferson, George Orwell, among others LOL


----------



## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Back in 2003 my dog got an American Express card in the mail. I called them and asked the guy why my dog could get one and I couldn't. The guy laughed and said maybe it was because I was paying all the bills. I laughed so hard I nearly had a asthma attack. He canceled the card and said he would note that the acct belonged to a 4 legged critter. Can you imagine the look on the store clerks face if someone had presented a card with the name "El Diablo P....."?


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Many years ago like a good little stupid nerd, I registered my Solar and Wind installation company with the state...........
I still get calls trying to sell me space in the yellow pages for my---Plumbing Co. . . . .

Of course I finally woke to the fact that this public registration and the $$$$fees$$$$ are a huge bunch of hog wash BS. . . . . . .


Other than that i love the gubermint just like I love a pink turd.........


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I think a lot of people forget that not everyone around you thinks the same way or has the same desires for a life style. 

It is really easy to blame municipal government for all the rules and regulations but most of these are the END result of complaints. By your neighbours and friends. 

If you live in a city you can bet that a lot of city folk don't want their property values devalued by country activities. And although I personally see nothing wrong with a well kept vegetable garden grown in the front yard I would object to some of the really slovenly ones I have seen. We now live in a rural suburb and I don't care what you do in your back yard but if you are devaluing my house or endangering my family then I care. 

My city just passed a bylaw allowing chickens within the city limits. I would love to have chickens again and would do a great job but then I would be meticulous in raising them as before. The problem is that the new law has only been in effect for a few weeks and yet we already have cases of people and businesses complaining because the coops within their neighbour's yards are a filthy mess and they attract coyotes, fox and bears. A little girl (7) went in to her yard last week to collect eggs and ran right into a coyote. If this keeps up - a few incompetents spoiling it for the responsible people- the bylaw will be reversed. And whose fault will it be? Not the governments.

In other words sometimes the rules and regulation are made because people who should know better and behave better just don't.


----------



## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

I keep my chickens quite well, but probably not up to some people's standards, they are kept up, the area kept clean and we still get coyotes running around here because of the drought, not because of chickens! Not in our yard mind you, because we have fences. We live in town and have always had coyotes, foxes, raccoons and bobcats, way before we had chickens so the animals were already there in your area as well. In order to have them in town you have to have a fence around your property.

As for devaluing property, we keep our front yard up to neighborhood standards but the backyard is off limits and I have several buckets of pink paint in the garage ready to be painted on if I ever have a bad neighbor again ie, gripes and complains about stuff constantly. He has passed on, but the pink paint lives in the garage still!


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

belladulcinea said:


> I keep my chickens quite well, but probably not up to some people's standards, they are kept up, the area kept clean and we still get coyotes running around here because of the drought, not because of chickens! Not in our yard mind you, because we have fences. We live in town and have always had coyotes, foxes, raccoons and bobcats, way before we had chickens so the animals were already there in your area as well. In order to have them in town you have to have a fence around your property.
> 
> As for devaluing property, we keep our front yard up to neighborhood standards but the backyard is off limits and I have several buckets of pink paint in the garage ready to be painted on if I ever have a bad neighbor again ie, gripes and complains about stuff constantly. He has passed on, but the pink paint lives in the garage still!


Any city or suburban area can get foxes, eagles, coyotes, raccoons, weasels, bobcats, cougars or bears (depending on where you live) as a normal part of life but when you have people who do not keep their chickens properly then that just attracts more. Same as with people who haven't learned the lessons of proper garbage containment. 

That was my point. YOU may be a responsible keeper of "livestock" and have a garden or yard that conforms with the bylaws of your area but there are many people who don't. And their slovenliness ends up spoiling it for everyone. 

Where we used to live we were allowed to park our campers, trailers, RVs, boats etc on our property as long as they were not obstructing the view or access of neighbours. 

This was great because it saved a fortune in storage fees. Then of course a whole bunch of idiots started making their yards and driveways look like junk yards with vehicles in all states of disrepair and there were so many complaints that the city put in a bylaw that did not allow for any extra parking of vehicles in residential areas. 

Our area was spotless and conformed to all the rules yet we got punished by having to move our trailer into paid storage. Our neighbour was hit even harder. He used to park his 18 wheeler next to his house when he was able to overnight at home but because of the negligence of others he lost this convenience and had to take it to the yard and take a taxi home - costing him time and money.


----------



## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

Which kinda proves the point of knowing when to keep quiet! People complained about other people's ways and got caught up in the net as well.


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I think the point is not so much to keep quiet and not talk about what you are doing (which is just common sense but people love to brag and show how clever they are) as it is to be able to blend in. If you choose to live in a specific area - or have no choice - then the way to actually get to do most of the things you want to do without interference is to be very conservative in your behaviour for the lifestyle of the area. If you are doing something that annoys your neighbours then you will draw attention to yourself. 

Years ago we lived in a suburb and heated with wood. We were very careful not to run our chain saw or even split wood at certain times of the day or for long periods of time at one go. No one ever complained. Then the guy across the street started to heat with wood and the idiot was running that chain saw for hours at a time, early in the morning and late in the evening. Sure enough the neighbours complained and because of noise bylaws he was fined and we had to be even more careful.


----------



## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> .....He used to park his 18 wheeler next to his house when he was able to overnight at home but because of the negligence of others he lost this convenience and had to take it to the yard and take a taxi home - costing him time and money.


I have mixed feelings on tractor trailers in neighborhoods. At one house I lived at in town. We had one guy that drove a truck and would park around the corner on a large cut through street that didn't have any houses on it. Just a handful of businesses that backed up it it. No problem whatsoever. Another guy would speed down our street and took out our phone line on a few different occasions. They couldn't put the lines up any hired because of the power lines. I was still a youngin, but I think it ended up taking a few calls to his employer to get him to park around the corner where the other guy did.


----------



## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

hate to break it to you guys, but if you dont want the gov to know you garden, a homesteading site probably isnt the best place to hang out. 

that said I wouldnt do it either. I can learn on my own as well. And have. 

as far as the topic of gardens, and yard upkeep. As far as Im concerned its no ones else business even if unkept. i purposely grow lots of trap plants. I purposely seed edible weeds as crazy as it sounds. guess what, I have roughly the same amount of weeds, but now a much higher percentage are useful. I let them grow where they arent fully in the way, or until they interfere with my actual crops. Some i can eat others are for my animals. Even useless weeds are left until a few weeks before they set seed to build biomass. 

So imo a straight rowed garden isnt the ideal anyway. and is irrelvant. im not infringing on another, or hurting anyone. It should be my right. property values imo arent an excuse to steal someone else liberty.


----------

