# Botulism



## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/on...lism-symptoms-after-church-potluck/ar-AAbu2XE


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

That story sent me off on web searches to both check on my home preserved products along with what to do with anything I might have done wrong to neutralize botulism toxin. 
Specifically I had been toying with the idea of making a potato "chip" from my vacuum packed dried potato slices rather than using them strictly in cooked dishes. Now I do dry everything to the crispy stage but still?????
I also now question my vacuum packing of dried chili peppers, which I use for grinding as a flavoring for salads and things without cooking. I already avoid vacuum packing dried onions and garlic because of possible botulism. I think I will stop doing that with the peppers too.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Too bad they didn't do some thorough testing to find out where the spores originated.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Too bad they didn't do some thorough testing to find out where the spores originated. 

Apparently they are testing the foods to find the source:
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2015/...-with-botulism-symptoms-after-church-potluck/


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

This always concerns me. We tend to freeze rather than can, partially for this reason. The fact that there are so few stories about this happening, given the thousands of potlucks every Sunday, tell you it is rare, however. What seems to be much more a risk are graduation parties where foods will sit out in warm conditions for many hours.


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

Danaus29 said:


> Too bad they didn't do some thorough testing to find out where the spores originated.


In the article they stated that local health officials were in the process of checking.

Botulism is something to take very seriously, but you don't have to have sleepless nights over it. The bacterium that produces it doesn't like two things, acid, and oxygen. Anything with a ph of less than 4.5 will not support the growth of _Clostridium botulinum_. That's why pickles, jams, and acidic foods are easy to water-bath can.

While the spores that _Clostridium_ produces are extremely heat resistant, they are finally killed at canning temperatures at or above 240F. The exact time you heat a particular jar is related to the kind of canner you have, the size of the jar, and how quickly heat penetrates into a particular substance. For example, heat penetrates into a jar of chicken soup faster than chunks of chicken meat. Follow USDA guidelines and you'll be fine.

Lastly, while the _Clostridium_ spores are very heat resistant, the toxin itself is not, being destroyed at temperatures below the boiling point of water. That means that any food that is re-heated to 212F AFTER PROCESSING will be safe.

Just to let you know, there are other food bacteria that also produce toxins. _Staphylococcus_ can grow in improperly stored food and its toxin is heat resistant, that is, re-heating the food will not destroy it. The good news though is although heat-resistant, Staph toxin most likely will only make you feel sick and throw up. It probably won't kill you. Again, either store the food below 40F or above 140F and you'll be fine.


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

where I want to said:


> That story sent me off on web searches to both check on my home preserved products along with what to do with anything I might have done wrong to neutralize botulism toxin. Now I do dry everything to the crispy stage but still?????


Botulism must have water to grow. A bacteria on properly died foods would be like you being dropped into a remote area of the Sahara desert surrounded by nothing but sand dunes and miles to the next watering hole. You would dry up and wither away, same with them on dehydrated foods. That is why dehydration works for preserving food.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Yep, it did say that. I missed it. It was late and I was tired. Did a double post too. Unfortunately I can't go back and remove one of them now.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Right now looks like it was some sort of cold pasta or potato type salad, not the home canned food as was previously reported.
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories...es-connected-to-lancaster-church-potluck.html


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

the first link didn't load for me, not sure why. I copy/pasted it and it loaded. Here's another attempt: http://www.10tv.com/content/stories...es-connected-to-lancaster-church-potluck.html

and here's a portion of the article that seems pertinent: _State investigators have narrowed down the source of the contamination to six foods served at the Cross Pointe Free Will Baptist Church potluck. The possible contaminated foods include four different varieties of potato salad, one spaghetti pasta salad, and one macaroni salad._

It's beginnning to look like they will find the cause is a cold salad not kept cold - maybe mayo related.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

That does not mean that those salads were not made with home canned ingredients. We'll have to see but at least it is being narrowed down. I have heard of foil wrapped baked potatoes being sources of botulism but that would be a peculiar way to cook potatoes for a salad.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Count-of-botulism-cases-tied-to-Ohio-church-meal-6225747.php

According to this article, it looks like the source was home canned potatoes.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

The bacteria would have to grow in an environment lacking oxygen. I couldn't see that happening in a covered container or foil wrapped package, unless it was stored that way, undisturbed, for quite some time.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

vicker said:


> The bacteria would have to grow in an environment lacking oxygen. I couldn't see that happening in a covered container or foil wrapped package, unless it was stored that way, undisturbed, for quite some time.


I have read that foil wrapped baked or grilled potatoes have caused botulism.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

You're right. One large outbreak (30 people) in Texas was found to be from foil wrapped potatoes. Another good reason not to wrap potatoes in foil.


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

I was planning on drying vegetables for dog treats this winter-this about has me scared off. How can I do it safely?


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

ceresone said:


> I was planning on drying vegetables for dog treats this winter-this about has me scared off. How can I do it safely?





> Drying food: Drying kills bacteria, yeasts, fungi and enzymes. Again, follow modern instructions to get this right.


http://www.wikihow.com/Prevent-Botulism


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Botulism can proliferate in a low oxygen atmosphere, which is why I was concerned about dried stuff that was vacuum packed. If I didn't dry to 10% moisture or less then vacuum packed, it might be a problem. But drying without vacuum packing would certainly not have that worry at least for botulism.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

According to the latest report on CNN it was from home canned potatoes. Doesn't say if the person who canned them used a pressure cooker or not. 
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/28/health/potatoes-to-blame-for-botulism/index.html


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