# Interested in the gut biome and health for cancer, heart disease, autoimmune & mental issues?



## Darren

Lots of stuff out there including the latest miracle diet promotions. More evidence about gut bacteria and medical issues coming out.


----------



## haley1

lots of info and studies coming out about how your guts are very important, immune system, nervous system etc. It seems foods of today are destorying the guts and us


----------



## Bob Johnsun

haley1 said:


> lots of info and studies coming out about how your guts are very important, immune system, nervous system etc. It seems foods of today are destorying the guts and us


 yep two teaspoons of apple cider vinegar 1 teaspoon of lime and 1 teaspoon of cranberry juice with water 3 times a day to help you out


----------



## vickinell

I have been a nut eater for years, but just recently I have been reading how you should soak them and beans before eating them.
A few months ago I had some dental issues. Some old filled teeth had to have the filling removed and crowns be added. My teeth were in pain, rather my mouth was in pain for over a month, the dentist was talking root canal. When I researched it, I did not want a root canal and I started. I actually started researching when my mouth was in such pain. That is when I also read that beans, oatmeal, nuts, were causes of decay.
So i started soaking my nuts. Sometime my almonds would mold, and always my walnuts. I had eaten a home made oatmeal bar for breakfast for the 3 years . It had oatmeal, walnuts, and chia seeds. I have stopped and started having a smoothie, for the last 2 weeks. It makes me run late to work . Hard to break an old habit. 
I am saying all this, because of reading that unless these items are soaked it is bad for your gut. I would appreciate any information concerning this subject. Thank you for listening.


----------



## xaf208

very interested.


----------



## davidsam77

Really it is an important information. Thanks for your Great post.


----------



## CajunSunshine

I am a believer!

Fermented foodie, here... I enjoy making delicious raw (not heat treated) sauerkraut, kefir (both kinds: water & milk), yogurt, sourdough bread, etc. etc.

I have been healthy and happy for years, even under prolonged trying circumstances. So I partly blame the probiotics and the prebiotic-rich diet for my general good health and success in staying away from doctors. (I can count on one hand how many times I have been to the doctor's office in the past 35 years, and it has been for...ahem, stuff like "occupational injuries" such as snakebite and rabies treatments, not sickness.)




.


----------



## CajunSunshine

haley1 said:


> lots of info and studies coming out about how your guts are very important, immune system, nervous system etc. It seems foods of today are destroying the guts and us


It's about time!!

For too long, the chemicals in processed foods have been killing all that is good in natural foods. I believe this is partly why cancer is so rampant these days. 

I grocery shop like it is 1817, not 2017. Everything I cook is from scratch. No processed foods in my kitchen. Anything processed is by me, not Proctor and Gamble, lol.


.


----------



## vickinell

I tried sourdough starter last summer but did not turn out. I am about to try it again. I made my first batch of beets and am starting another before I eat them all. I had great luck with kraut and other fermented veggies.
When I went in over a year ago for my first well checkup with Medicare I was shocked to find out I had high cholesterol. My doc gave me a prescription. I took it a few days and my legs felt aches. I told a coworker. She said she took cod liver oil. I started taking that. Months later I went to the drug store and had it checked. It had gone down to 179.

Right after the check up and results came from bone density test they said I had brittle bones and wanted me to take a prescription. I told her about the pain in my legs and she said yes that is a side affect. I said I wanted to research the meds they prescribed first. I never called them back. Started taking bone up. I want to get another bone density test to see if that has helped.

I also make my own bone broth.


----------



## MoonRiver

The biggest thing is to not take antibiotics unless absolutely necessary and then take the one less damaging to your gut flora. Don't eat meat or drink milk from animals treated with antibiotics. Also really important that mothers have vaginal births if possible and breastfeed baby.


----------



## COSunflower

I am like Cajunsunshine - I have a very unsophisticated kitchen! I get a delivery each week of a basket of organic fruits and veggies and eat around that all week. I eat pretty much raw also. I am getting over a BAD intestinal/stomach virus that I caught from babysitting my grandkids over the weekend (the first one was sick then). It has decimated my gut bacteria! A friend is sending me some more milk kefir grains next week and I am going to start up my kefir again. Gut health is SOOOOO important!!!!!


----------



## Darren

Great article on how an athlete restored her health.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...Ux-k9HmEx0lKaiOftllyq-JvTLwUrw&_hsmi=53331681


----------



## ShannonR

Fecal transplant???
Oh boy, I wasn't ready for that one.


----------



## vickinell

Yep, never heard of that, google here I come.


----------



## Darren

Fecal transplants are used in some instances of C. diff infections. The more interesting fact is DNA analysis is being used to ID bacteria. In the future will fecal DNA be used to diagnose diseases? We're already seeing studies showing correlations between gut bacteria and autoimmune diseases.


----------



## vickinell

No thank you, not for me, at this time. Thankfully I don't take that many antibiotics, although I did take more this year than I had ever taken. Pneumonia for the first time and dental issues.

I try to eat fermented foods every day. I now faithfully floss and oil pull.


----------



## Darren

There's a study out that's correlated dental health with either MS or RA. I don't remember which.


----------



## vickinell

Yes, when I was studying about my dental issues, I think, I discovered all kinds of info. I thought I had been doing right, like eating almonds, walnuts, oatmeal, beans, that should be soaked, or avoided. For my arthritis I should not eat shade plants. Those seem to be mostly what I consumed often.


----------



## ShannonR

The implications of microbiome influence in humans are huge. What has been discovered is just the tip of the iceberg. And this makes so much sense, it's a very probable explanation to many modern ailments that weren't too common in the past such as diabetes, celiac disease, cancer, the list goes on. The more I look into it, the more amazed I become.

I still don't know quite how to feel about the fecal transplant idea but the concept does hold merit. This is early science on the subject, and more appropriate solutions may be found in the future.


----------



## Darren

I've looked at probiotics. The problem is stomach acid kills most of the bacteria. Whether beneficial bacteria are supplied from one end or the other the findings indicate that the biome in the gut has more effect on health than medical science knows. Another article mentioned that gut bacteria determine what you like to eat.


----------



## ShannonR

Indeed, this could be the future of medicine. If, of course, there is a way to make a ton of money off it... if not then expect all this science to be swept under the rug in favor of big pharma


----------



## Darren

First stool bank. More than one now exists.

https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/gory-details/introducing-first-bank-feces


----------



## MoonRiver

Here's a company that does microbiome testing and will tell you what bacteria you have. It looks like they just test a stool sample. When I did mine a couple of years ago, they also tested skin, mouth, and nose (and I think genital area).

You just use a swab to get a sample, put in test tube, and send it off. 

They also have a free monthly newsletter. https://ubiome.com/


----------



## Darren

Ongoing bacterial discoveries.

https://geneticliteracyproject.org/...ry-doubles-sequencing-becomes-cheaper-faster/


----------



## Darren

RA and gut bacteria:

http://www.curearthritis.org/intestinal-bacteria-rheumatoid-arthritis/


----------



## Darren

Bacterial competition in your gut has implications for making your own choice and the subsequent health effects.

https://www.abdn.ac.uk/clsm/graduat...genic-oomycete-saprolegnia-parasitica-945.php


----------



## Horse Fork Farm

Darren said:


> Fecal transplants are used in some instances of C. diff infections. The more interesting fact is DNA analysis is being used to ID bacteria. In the future will fecal DNA be used to diagnose diseases? We're already seeing studies showing correlations between gut bacteria and autoimmune diseases.


Yes, that's what I've read too, about gut bacteria and autoimmune diseases. When my ex was in Desert Storm he ate contaminated meat and caught
mycoplasma. His gut was decimated and I came down with it a few weeks after his return stateside. That put my body into all kinds of problems. I'm susceptible now to mycoplasma pneumonias, even after taking both pneumonia vaccines. I dont like vaccines for every little thing but it really was necessary as now the episode's are not life and death like they were. Anyway, myco hurts the gut which makes your entire body weaker. I feel much better if I eat ferments regularly. It really lessens the severity of autoimmune disorders!


----------



## Darren

Gut biome brain, correlation.

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/gut-microbes-strongly-influence-emotional-behaviors/


----------



## Darren

Older article on diet and gut bacteria

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt...way-to-a-healthier-microbiome-its-complicated


----------



## Darren

More info:

http://www.gutmicrobiotaforhealth.c...lla-genus-diet-and-its-impact-on-host-health/


----------



## Darren

How the gut is laid out. What happens when it doesn't work like it should.

http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Fermentation_in_the_gut_and_CFS


----------



## Darren

Gut biome and osteoporosis:

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/how-your-gut-affects-your-bones/


----------



## Darren

Another article on gut bacteria and joint pain with info on the immune system:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/01/joint-pain-from-the-gut/383772/


----------



## Darren

Breast cancer and bacteria:

https://www.asm.org/index.php/gener...le-for-probiotics-in-breast-cancer-prevention


----------



## Darren

Research involving feeding specific gut bacteria:

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-07/uoma-fsf071017.php


----------



## Darren

Introduction to phages. They "eat" bacteria.

http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/phage-killer-viral-dark-matter


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria and colon cancer link:

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...obox&utm_source=Facebook#link_time=1499974190


----------



## Darren

More info on gut bacteria and arthritis.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1074761310002049


----------



## vickinell

I am very interested, but I can not understand all of this medical language. I would need a dictionary and have to have more uninterrupted time.

Can you understand this? Are you in the medical field? I think you refer to your wife as the doc.


----------



## Darren

Doc has a PhD in immuniopathology. As both a veterinarian and a nurse practitioner with a masters, she understands the body and the old science of how it works. The reference book on bacteria is Bergey's Manual of Determinative Bacteriology. That has grown tremendously. Dorland's Medical Dictionary is handy for the terminology. Of course the internet is available too if you've got the time.

Doc came up in the era when bacteria were identified by growing them in a culture. Many bacteria could never be cultured so they remained unknown. With DNA sequencing science has moved beyond cultures. The new sequencing techniques are enabling a new era. Doc understands the language. The sequencing is all new. 

My understanding is superficial compared to Doc's. I've always been inquisitive. Stuff like this is just grist for the mill.


----------



## Al Yaz

This may not be the best thread for this, if not, I apologize. However we chatted at length a couple of nights ago with two women who are vegans (no meat, chicken, fish, eggs, cheese, etc). They talked about how they believed their gut biomes changed within about 21 days of having changed to vegan diets. Their stories were quite compelling. Even though we eat all organic fruits and vegetables and organic fed meats (when we do eat it) the ’21 day vegan challenge’ to see if there is a difference is strong. Has anyone gone Vegan and noticed immediate changes in their health?


----------



## Darren

That's a good question. In gut studies, Africans have more Prevotella while those with a Western diet have more Bacteroides. Because the gut is the home of anaerobic bacteria, changing the colonies would seem to require prebiotic/diet changes since none of those bacteria would survive stomach acid. The conflicting info seems to be that Provotella copri may be associated with inflammation which in turn may trigger an autoimmune disease. That doesn't jibe with being Vegan as a healthy life style. It does raise the question of the incidence of autoimmune diseases in Vegans. Are they at higher risk, lower risk, or the same? This also ignores genetics and the predisposition that may exist.

FWIW, my brain is somewhat swimming with this. It's difficult to reach a conclusion in part because it's an emerging area in medical science. An example is several studies which seemed to indicate humans could be pigeonholed as having one or other predominate gut colonies. Later studies show that it's a continuum which makes sense.


----------



## Darren

The other issue with autoimmune diseases is environmental factors which are thought to be behind the increase worldwide. I don't think gut bacteria is the magic solution to understanding maladies. We tend to pigeonhole or classify things to understand them. Autism is an example of pigeonholing that lead to a delay in understanding. We need to understand things as a whole body even if it crosses boundaries.


----------



## Darren

The link is interesting for the amount of money the feds are spending on gut biome research along with an early incident of research.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gut-week-introduction/


----------



## Darren

Gut biome and evolution.

https://aeon.co/ideas/the-very-microbes-that-helped-us-evolve-now-make-us-sick


----------



## Darren

Vitamin B12 malabsorption and gut microbiota. Cross posted in B12 thread.

http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/link-b-12-brain-function-memory/


----------



## Darren

American gut, several articles.

http://humanfoodproject.com/americangut/


----------



## Darren

Potential bacterial treatment for Multiple Sclerosis.

http://amp.fox9.com/news/272619319-story


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria and autism:

"So, I continued my infinite quest for answers. Soon after, a book showed up in my recommended feed. It was titled “Brain Maker: The Power of Gut Microbes to Heal and Protect Your Brain-for Life”, and it was ranked #1 in the category of Autism."

http://www.healourlittleones.com/?p=837


----------



## Darren

The future of medicine? I'm looking forward to this film for the commentary.

http://kalebrock.com.au/the-future-of-medicine-poop/


----------



## vickinell

Crapsule....


----------



## Darren

Protecting babies from sepsis:

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...ign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170816


----------



## Darren

Autism as a complex whole body issue. Biome, as such, not mentioned.

https://experiencelife.com/article/autism-not-simply-brain-based/


----------



## Darren

Fiber and the gut.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/503565/why-fiber-good-your-gut-health#.WZr5qe5L_4o.facebook


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria monetization. What can an athlete do for you?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas.../top_science+(ScienceDaily:+Top+Science+News)


----------



## Darren

Autoimmune and autism link. Like the old saying, "You're going to give me ulcers." Is bacteria involved?


----------



## Darren

Gut-brain communication is bi directional.

http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fmicb.2016.00345/full


----------



## Darren

Gut-brain axis via vagus nerve. Potential for future treatments.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...obiome-gut-brain-axis-relies-your-vagus-nerve


----------



## Darren

New progress in understanding infectious vs. non-infectious. It isn't as simple as one microbe being responsible.

https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-017-0281-7


----------



## Darren

Connection between Lupus and bacterial generated biofilm from E. coli and Salmonella. Makes me wonder about a correlation between food poisoning or leaky gut and later development of an autoimmune disease. Doc's daughter was the youngest person in the US at one point to have their gall bladder removed due to a Salmonella infection. Their bile was black sludge. No indication of autoimmune issue fifty years later. Did they get lucky? Anyone here with an autoimmune issue that had food poisoning prior? Obviously it's conjecture. Something to think about.

https://www.niams.nih.gov/News_and_Events/Spotlight_on_Research/2015/biofilms_lupus.asp


----------



## Darren

Bacteria, fungi and Crohns? Forbes article.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/afifgh...ize-consumer-microbiome-testing/#7e21e6870025


----------



## Darren

Gut health and what you can do.

https://thrivemarket.com/blog/5-way...GutHealthCrucialBodyWellness&utm_term=08.2017


----------



## MoonRiver

Don't forget there is also mouth and nasal passage bacteria. They can also affect your overall health. Probably the same with bacteria on genitals and on skin.


----------



## primal1

I haven't read every single post but as a recovering sufferer of gastritis/IBS all I can say is get Kombucha into your diet.. fad or not, the probiotic, bacteria and yeast content is what seems to be helping me. I now have 2 gallons on the go all the time, it is so thirst quenching and satisfying that every sip actually feels like you are doing yourself some good. Hope this helps


----------



## Darren

Fermented foods can help change the bacterial diversity in the gut to help relieve some issues. "Leaky gut" can be a factor in many triggers.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-p...sensitivities-may-affect-gut-barrier-function


----------



## Darren

Why you have food cravings and the relationship to autoimmune issues:

http://autoimmunewellness.com/break...vings-why-are-we-drawn-to-foods-that-harm-us/


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria, the circadian rhythm, and obesity:

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2017/...t-microbes-biological-clocks-and-weight-gain/


----------



## Darren

Not the gut biome but the biome in kids ears and why some are prone to infections.

https://medlineplus.gov/news/fullstory_168326.html


----------



## Darren

Link between gut bacteria, fungi and Crohn's disease:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gut-fungus-suspected-in-crohn-s-disease/


----------



## Darren

Cancer and bacteria. Diet may help.

http://www.gutmicrobiotaforhealth.c...ect-preventing-cancer-interview-nuria-malats/


----------



## Darren

General research:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-09-thousands-microbial-human-body.html


----------



## Darren

Honey beneficial for gut biome. Cancer implication.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...-offers-beneficial-boost-to-our-biome/8541442


----------



## Darren

RA and the gut biome. Some suggestions, diet and probiotics, for DIY treatment.

http://blog.arthritis.org/rheumatoid-arthritis/gut-bacteria-rheumatoid-arthritis-ra/


----------



## Darren

RA originated in North America. Link to gingivitis:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3275101/


----------



## Darren

Article on Japanese fermented vegetable (burdock) for colon health. Also why smokers are often thin and why ex-smokers may develop colitis. The fermented vegetables using Aspergillus were a mainstay of the anti-cancer diet in the book _Recalled To Life_ by Anthony Sattilaro. 

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2016-07/hu-npi070316.php


----------



## Darren

For those that are not familiar with phages. Phage research originated in the former USSR. Research continues in other countries. I'm not sure of the extent it's being studied here.


----------



## Darren

It's a two way street between neurons and the microbiome. Interesting implication.

https://www.technologynetworks.com/...s-control-of-the-bodys-bacterial-flora-292666


----------



## Darren

Anti-fungals and probiotics for IBS and Crohns: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/10/171004120513.htm


----------



## Darren

Specific bacteria metabolizes flavonoids whichs lessen lung damage from flu. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/10/171004120513.htm


----------



## Darren

The developers of this device are using it to determine food compatibility. So what happens when you only eat compatible foods which support the existing bacteria some of which aren't good for your health? https://foodmarble.com/


----------



## Darren

Gut biome, gut permeability and ALS, research moves from the brain to the gut. https://alsnewstoday.com/2016/07/18/diversity-gut-bacteria-may-affect-brain-health/


----------



## Darren

Antibiotic activity of olive oil extract in the gut. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19135874/?i=2&from=/12870202/related


----------



## Darren

Bacteria as the future of medicine with a connection to diabetes. https://www.popsci.com/gut-bacteria-medicine


----------



## Darren

Bacteria imbalance and breast cancer: https://m.medicalxpress.com/news/2017-10-link-bacterial-imbalances-breast-cancer.html


----------



## Darren

Supplement, polydexstrose for gut biome modification. Affects inflammatory bowel disease (IBD), obesity and type 2 diabetes. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-05259-3


----------



## Darren

Study of the effects of probiotics on the development of autism and ADHD. Not definitive to to small population size. Still interesting. http://kalebrock.com.au/probiotics-for-adhd-autism-study/


----------



## Darren

Chronic liver disease from use of common acid reflux medications due to altering gut bacteria:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/10/171010085704.htm


----------



## Darren

Got colitis? Check out what broccoli and Brussels sprouts can do. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/10/171012151754.htm


----------



## Darren

Hacking your biome: http://richardsprague.com/docs/experiments.html


----------



## Darren

Good synopsis: Ninety percent of your body ain't human.

https://mic.com/articles/185429/human-microbiome-definition-diet-testing-science-research#.AdjiRbOB1


----------



## Darren

An earlier article that's somewhat of a summary: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer


----------



## Darren

For IBD:

"Tryptophan appears to be an important amino acid in IBD patients since they have lower levels of serum and fecal tryptophan compared to healthy subjects[2,11]. In light of the close relationship occurring between the intestinal microbiota and dietary intake, such data further highlight the need of controlling both macro- and micro-nutrients consumption in IBD patients with genetic predisposition."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5292609/


----------



## Darren

Mechanism discovered that results in irritable bowel disease. Area of research for other autoimmune diseases.

http://ucalgary.ca/utoday/issue/2017-10 ... -disorders


----------



## Darren

Why cancer treatments work for some and not for others. The gut is the clue.

https://gizmodo.com/the-fascinating-link-between-gut-health-and-cancer-trea-1820118334


----------



## Darren

Bacteria may cause heart disease. Is that the reason some can live to a ripe old age on a bad diet?

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319967.php


----------



## no really

Interesting articles and research. Thanks


----------



## Darren

More info at link: https://draxe.com/microbiome/
https://draxe.com/microbiome/


----------



## Darren

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015...alth_n_6480580.html?utm_hp_ref=healthy-living


----------



## Darren

Cancer and bacteria

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4199005/


----------



## Darren

Bacteria and aging research into inflammation. 

https://nutritionreview.org/2017/11...ronic-inflammation-triggered-by-gut-bacteria/


----------



## Darren

Bacteria and cancer. It's complicated. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/23/health/bacteria-colon-cancer.html


----------



## Darren

Bacteria and peristalsis: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/11/171122103549.htm


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria again.

"Recent investigations indicate that these microbes majorly impact on cognitive function and fundamental behavior patterns, such as social interaction and stress management."

http://www.journalofpsychiatricresearch.com/article/S0022-3956(15)00065-5/fulltext


----------



## Darren

A diet that's helped some due to the influence on gut bacteria. I suspect a primary issue is that there are so many differences between individuals including gut bacteria that saying something will always work falls in the realm of cookie cutter medical treatment.

https://www.alternet.org/personal-h...m-doctors-dont-want-you#.WjXR5Ki8plY.facebook


----------



## Darren

Mental issues and the gut:

http://www.oncotarget.com/index.php...rticle&op=view&path[0]=21284&pubmed-linkout=1


----------



## light rain

Just was reading a thread on roundup and I never realized how it it acually killed the weeds. I wonder if it also removes the minerals from our bodies and does this also have a significant impact on our micro-biome? Also wonder if the medical establishment has been sitting on/impeding research on our gut health to continue the status quo...


----------



## Darren

light rain said:


> Just was reading a thread on roundup and I never realized how it it acually killed the weeds. I wonder if it also removes the minerals from our bodies and does this also have a significant impact on our micro-biome? Also wonder if the medical establishment has been sitting on/impeding research on our gut health to continue the status quo...


From what I've seen research is ramping up on the gut biome. The genie is out of the bottle. Until DNA analysis came along, microbiota identification was prehistoric compared to where we will be in a few years. 

Big pharma may not be a good investment in the future given how many issues are being traced to the gut. 

Mineral availability is another separate issue. The question being are we getting optimum nutrition from diets. Are we feeding the microbiota in our gut properly? Medical science had been dependent on brute force methods for cures. When you take an antibiotic you're nuking your gut. Science is beginning to understand the synergy that a healthy human universe requires.


----------



## Darren

The gut and neurodegenerative disease:

"Recent studies have shown that gut microbes may cause or worsen Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease and other neurodegenerative conditions. Neurologists have proposed a new term to describe an interaction between gut microbiota and the brain: mapranosis."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/12/171222090323.htm


----------



## light rain

I believe that it is more correct to say that "certain" gut microbes may cause/encourage neurodegenerative diseases. We all are going to have/need gut microbes to survive. The question remains which microbes are beneficial to us and is it dependent on our gender, ethnic background, age and lifestyle?
I know of a young woman right now battling MS. I wonder how much gut microbes have influenced her health... 
I just started making kombucha in the hopes of improving my/our health. Got blueberries, currants, raspberries, a cherry tree and a few other fruits growing to incorporate into this venture.
Thanks for sharing these posts, Darren.


----------



## Darren

light rain said:


> I believe that it is more correct to say that "certain" gut microbes may cause/encourage neurodegenerative diseases. We all are going to have/need gut microbes to survive. The question remains *which microbes are beneficial to us and is it dependent on our gender, ethnic background, age and lifestyle?*
> I know of a young woman right now battling MS. I wonder how much gut microbes have influenced her health...
> I just started making kombucha in the hopes of improving my/our health. Got blueberries, currants, raspberries, a cherry tree and a few other fruits growing to incorporate into this venture.
> Thanks for sharing these posts, Darren.


It makes sense that genetics plays a part. To the extent that follows ethnicity, yes. Diet seems to be key. One of the interesting aspects is there's evidence that gut bacteria play a part in determining what foods you like. Fermented foods are a good addition to the diet. The key is staying with a diet and probiotics that can maintain the gut biome for optimum health. It's an exciting time to see the new discoveries. As I said before, we live in a time when medical science is in the process of rapid change, Via the internet people are exploring things for themselves and sharing the results.

Your friend with MS should look into R. Lipoic Acid if they have neurological issues. There was a recent study conducted by a VA hospital that showed a benefit.


----------



## light rain

Thanks for the info. I'll research and print it out and send to her Mom. 

Yes it is an exciting time for discovery. Now folks can economically have access to information where it in the past they would have to pay and rely on third party's estimation of what was relevant. Still have to rely on third parties, the medical profession, but now with a greater personal insight on causes, mechanics and options...


----------



## Darren

In the past it was thought that once the myelin was damaged, there was no hope. Degeneration would continue until death. R Lipoic Acid works to restore the damaged nerve sheath. This was known by some at least twenty years ago. A friend took A Lipoic Acid and it helped with diabetes induced neuropathy that many years ago. R Lipoic Acid works better but is not as common. Try that instead of A Lipoic Acid or the mixture.


----------



## Darren

Crohns therapy:


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria, the termination byproducts and the effects on joints. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180112132755.htm


----------



## Darren

Bone health, bacteria, short chain fatty acids and fiber. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-017-02490-4

Foods and fiber for reference: https://www.fatfreekitchen.com/soluble-fiber-foods-list.html


----------



## Darren

Bacteria and genes: "... work shows that chemical messages from bacteria can alter chemical markers throughout the human genome. The signal chemicals are made when bacteria digest fruits and vegetables. By communicating in this way, the bacteria may help to fight infections and to prevent cancer."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180109102758.htm


----------



## Darren

Evidence of the relationship between gut bacteria, the Western diet and vascular disease. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29351482


----------



## light rain

Any way to find out what the Western diet was and what the broad spectrum antibiotics were? 

I was reading last night about how Tufts Univ. research documented that coconut oil reduces C Diff organisms in the intestinal tract. 

Hope I'm not repeating something you posted earlier.


----------



## Darren

light rain said:


> Any way to find out what the Western diet was and what the broad spectrum antibiotics were?
> 
> I was reading last night about how Tufts Univ. research documented that coconut oil reduces C Diff organisms in the intestinal tract.
> 
> Hope I'm not repeating something you posted earlier.


Repeat away. The study is behind a pay wall. If it's accessed and can be linked, I'll post it.


----------



## RoBlaine

Please read through the into.
I started growing Sunchokes - Jerusalem Artichokes and was browsing the web looking for a way to deal with the gas caused by occasional use. Another name for them is Fartichokes! It can be nasty, but the 'chokes' are worth it! I started harvesting them this past fall and have a few batches of Bread-n-Butter pickles, Taco relish and plain canned 'chokes' put up. Anyway, I stumbled onto this Dr. Nemechek Protocol using three common ingredients to treat ADHD and related developmental disorders. It also treats IBS and some other gut disorders. The ingredients are pure, organic, extra virgin olive oil, cod based fish oil and inulin. The stuff that causes gas is inulin - note that's not inSulin but inulin. Inulin is basically a starchy fiber that isn't supposed to be digested in the stomach or the small intestine but is broken down in the large bowel by bacteria and yeast and these 'chokes' are about 75% inulin. They can pack a punch! The terrible gas comes from bacteria in the small gut breaking the inulin down too early, bacteria that should not be in the small gut, but in the large gut. Somehow this inulin is supposed to attract the yeast and bacteria from the small gut like a fiber sponge and carry it down into the large gut where it belongs. Once the bad guys are out of the small gut, the small gut can heal which can eliminate IBS, Leaky Gut and other problems. Again, once the small gut heals, the gut chemistry changes and this makes changes in the blood chemistry. This is where the oils are supposed to come in. They help the small gut heal and make some other chemistry changes plus they are also used by the brain to heal and/or change.
This doesn't seem to happen to everyone. Some respond quite well while others don't respond at all. It seems to be a mostly hit or occasional miss affair.
I found two Facebook groups about it, one for children up to adult and another group for adults. On Facebook, search for 'Nemechek Protocol'. There is a slight difference between treating children and adults apparently. The posts from those who are using this on their children is flat out unbelievable. I've had some long term gut issues. I'm in my 60s and I won't go into George Carlin's tirade on Occasional Irregularity, but you get the idea. To work on the gas issue (pardon the pun!) I've been having a small helping of either the Taco relish or the pickles every few days. Regular samples seemed to take care of the gas I'd discovered back when I was a kid and we had 'chokes on the farm. Since November, my BMs, which used to be about every day or every other day, have loosened and I'm going at least once a day, sometimes twice a day. Much better! And the gas issue is gone. I take a small dose of fish oil per day, not the type recommended by the Dr. nor the amount and we use regular olive oil when cooking, again not the recommended type or amount, so my wife and I aren't seeing any dramatic changes, other than directly gut related. My wife has a diverticulitis flareup once in a great while, and since last fall, through the holiday season, when it usually flares up because of all the different foods, there were no problems. Maybe she was just lucky, or maybe the 'chokes' helped?


----------



## light rain

Thanks for the info. I've got two patches of chokes out sleeping in the cold. I know only too well about the methane problems. 

I see on prebiotic labels inulin is often listed. 

We have a good olive oil already, just have to buy a bottle of cod liver oil.


----------



## Darren

Crohns, RA, MAP and genetics:

https://blog.frontiersin.org/2018/0...K&utm_medium=SNET&utm_term=ECO_FCIMB_20180202


----------



## Darren

Bowl cancer and bacteria:

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...=SOC&utm_source=Facebook#link_time=1517530413


----------



## vickinell

I have been having dental issues since last spring. I have been listening to an oral health summit. There is 5 speakers per day and it lasts about a week. I have not gotten to hear all of them but they are very informative.
Oral health and gut health are connected.


----------



## Barefootminis

This is another thing I'm highly interested in. I had deep suctioning/intestinal lavage as a newborn. I've always been the sick one in my family and have always struggled with my weight. There is scientific evidence to support this. Watched a short documentary on a gal who had c-diff. She was treated heavily with antibiotics and she gained a significant amount of weight. She was always thin up until this point.

Later she had several FMT (fecal microbiome transplants) from her skinny, healthy brother. It sounds gross BUT not only did it completely cure her C-Diff but she lost all of the weight she gained from being ill.


----------



## light rain

Something I just read recently is that artificial sweetners can increase e coli in the gut. Anyone interested can find research from Case Western University in Ohio.

They are doing fecal transplants in the hospitals in Madison WI with success.

This whole new approach of gut mediated disease/health is in it's infancy.


----------



## Darren

"Dietary fibers promote gut bacteria that benefit blood glucose control"

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/03/180308143047.htm


----------



## RazrRebel

Bob Johnsun said:


> yep two teaspoons of apple cider vinegar 1 teaspoon of lime and 1 teaspoon of cranberry juice with water 3 times a day to help you out


Any certain type of ACV, cranberry juice, and lime. All organic, not processed?


----------



## Darren

Does your doctor know ... or care?

https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/why-every-single-doctor-should-know-about-the-micrbiome


----------



## Darren

Another overview that also covers development in children:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...e-why-our-microbes-could-be-key-to-our-health


----------



## Darren

Changing your diet can change your gut bacteria which can change your health. https://translational-medicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12967-017-1175-y


----------



## Darren

More than half of what you consider your body isn't human.

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-43674270


----------



## light rain

Apparently no man is an island...


----------



## Darren

light rain said:


> Apparently no man is an island...


You're a universe.


----------



## light rain

Hopefully the medical world will be proactive with the acceptance of how bacteria, viruses and fungi and other organisms populate us and our environment and not treat the new research with disdain and closed minds...


----------



## Darren

light rain said:


> Hopefully the medical world will be proactive with the acceptance of how bacteria, viruses and fungi and other organisms populate us and our environment and not treat the new research with disdain and closed minds...


It's reached a point where there's no going back. I wouldn't say it's mainstream yet. But the results can't be ignored. I don't think special interests can do the modern day equivalent of the Flexner Report and change the direction to one benefiting them. There's dovetailing with genetic changes that are also irrefutable. I think several cats are out of the bag.


----------



## light rain

Darren, I agreed and liked everything you said except "the cats are out of the bag" reference. That brings up real unpleasant images to me as a cat lover...


----------



## Darren

Changes in gut bacteria associated with heart failure:

"Heart failure patients showed a significantly decreased diversity of the intestinal microbiome as well as a downregulation of key intestinal bacterial groups."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5542738/


----------



## Darren

Autoimmune disease and the gut biome again:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/link-gut-health-autoimmune-disorders-120024072.html


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria and heart failure. Antibiotics may help. Something's going on.

https://www.labroots.com/trending/microbiology/8633/cleaning-gut-bacteria-improve-heart-failure


----------



## vickinell

This confuses me. I have read how antibiotics mess up the good bacteria. I try to avoid antibiotics.


----------



## Darren

vickinell said:


> This confuses me. I have read how antibiotics mess up the good bacteria. I try to avoid antibiotics.


It confuses me too. Lately I've been interested in the different types of T cells and their action in autoimmune issues. they may be a source of damage. I'm not sure if there's a bacterial link. Eliminate or crowd out that bacteria and the issue would diminish if there's a link.


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria and mood:

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-43815370?SThisFB


----------



## Darren

Gut biome changes associated with celiac disease:

https://www.mdedge.com/ccjm/article...liac-disease-beyond-diet-genetic-interactions


----------



## Darren

PBS, Changing your biome:

"“I can’t believe it—he’s a chatterbox!” Samantha Jones* shrieked with delight.

Her autistic son was typically quiet, nearly non-verbal most of his life, but a microbiome-augmenting treatment had drastically improved the child’s behavior—like the flip of a light switch. Jones’s child was part of a study that examined the role that microscopic critters living inside us, collectively known as the microbiome, can play in gastrointestinal issues and autism. While the study was small, it suggests that altering our microbes can have wide-reaching consequences—sometimes for the better."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/body/changing-your-microbiome/


----------



## farmrbrown

Darren said:


> PBS, Changing your biome:
> 
> "“I can’t believe it—he’s a chatterbox!” Samantha Jones* shrieked with delight.
> 
> Her autistic son was typically quiet, nearly non-verbal most of his life, but a microbiome-augmenting treatment had drastically improved the child’s behavior—like the flip of a light switch. Jones’s child was part of a study that examined the role that microscopic critters living inside us, collectively known as the microbiome, can play in gastrointestinal issues and autism. While the study was small, it suggests that altering our microbes can have wide-reaching consequences—sometimes for the better."
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/body/changing-your-microbiome/



I saw the PBS show yesterday, I think it was Nova Wonders.
If y'all want to really blow your minds. watch the hour episode.
When they did the experiments on mice, that was amazing.
They could add AND subtract the symptoms of Parkinson's and Autism just by altering their gut bacteria.
Even the scientists don't understand the exact mechanism yet but they established that it IS connected somehow between the brain and your gut.

When I read about "fecal transplants" last year, I thought they were nuts. But that lady that was cured in 24 hours after weeks of not being able to leave her house was hard to swallow, pardon the pun.


The funny part about all this is the Chinese were doing this 1,000 years ago.

ETA.
Oh and the cure rate for this crappy procedure?
89% vs. 40% with high power antibiotics.


----------



## Darren

Info on the mouth, issues and health. Links to cancer and the heart:

https://drbonnie360.com/2018/05/01/...ole-in-heart-disease-lung-disease-and-cancer/


----------



## Darren

Gorillas, their diet, gut biome and early death:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/03/gorilla-guts/554636/?utm_source=twb


----------



## Darren

Aging, diet, cognitive decline and the gut biome:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-05-links-diet-gut-microbes-cognitive.html


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria and systemic lupus:

https://news.yale.edu/2018/03/08/enemy-within-gut-bacteria-drive-autoimmune-disease


----------



## Darren

More research showing implications for MS and other autoimmune issues. It's technical. Note that broccoli and members of the cabbage family may be beneficial.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05113-0


----------



## Darren

IBD and Crohn's disease info:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-05-chance-discovery-links-inflammatory-bowel.html


----------



## Darren




----------



## Darren

Yogurt as an anti-inflammatory. Good bacteria at work. Boost your gut health.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-05-yogurt-dampen-chronic-inflammation-linked.html


----------



## Darren

Gut biome and MS:

https://multiplesclerosisnewstoday....l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer


----------



## Darren

Missing microbes linked to childhood cancer.

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-44199844


----------



## Darren

Toxin emitted by E. coli and IBS:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-05-chance-discovery-links-inflammatory-bowel.html


----------



## Darren

"A new study investigates the relationship between autism, the immune system, gastrointestinal issues, and gut bacteria. The story is a complex one with many questions still remaining unanswered, but this latest project adds insight."

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321566.php


----------



## Darren

Overview of the human biome:

http://microbeminded.com/2018/03/01...the-human-microbiome-pathogens-and-evolution/


----------



## Darren

Gut mind connection articles:

http://emeranmayer.com/mindgutconnection101/


----------



## Darren

Meta-analysis of gut microbiome studies identifies disease-specific and shared responses

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-017-01973-8


----------



## Darren

Gut biome and colon cancer:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-05-gut-microbiome-colon-cancer.html


----------



## Darren

Leafy greens support good gut bacteria.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/02/160215114005.htm


----------



## Darren

Bacterial link to obesity:

https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Gut_Microbiota_and_Obesity


----------



## Darren

The secret to longevity is in the microbiome and the gut

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-05-secret-longevity-microbiome-gut.html


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria and fiber:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/01/science/food-fiber-microbiome-inflammation.html


----------



## Darren

Gut biome and fighting cancer: In some instances bacteria can render cancer drugs ineffective, etc.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41...m=social&utm_campaign=NNPnature&sf190742176=1


----------



## Darren

The gut biome and sleep:

https://www.thesleepdoctor.com/2018/05/29/the-latest-on-sleep-and-gut-health/


----------



## Darren

Gut microbiome showed positive response to vegetarian diet in two weeks

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-06-gut-microbiome-positive-response-vegetarian.html


----------



## Darren

Gut biome and liver cancer:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-05-gut-microbiome-antitumor-immune-function.html


----------



## Darren

Bacteria and autoimmune diseases:

https://news.yale.edu/2018/03/08/enemy-within-gut-bacteria-drive-autoimmune-disease


----------



## Darren

Heal your gut, heal your mind.

https://betterhumans.coach.me/heal-your-gut-heal-your-mind-fbef62fd61e5


----------



## Darren

"Germ" warfare:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29897662


----------



## Darren

Gut biome and the effect of salt:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/11/171115131251.htm


----------



## Darren

The gut biome and metabolism

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-06-intestinal-microbiome-metabolismthrough-immune.html


----------



## Darren

Bacteria becoming missing in Western societies' infants. It's not good.

"Scientists at the University of California, Davis, have found that a strain of bacteria called B. infantis that is thought to have been the dominant bacterium in the infant gut for all of human history is disappearing from the Western world. According to their research, this was probably caused by the rise in cesarean births, the overuse of antibiotics and the use of infant formula in place of breast milk."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/opinion/babies-bacteria-breastfeeding-formula.html


----------



## Darren

Another overview. Bechamp was right. Pasteur was wrong.

https://neurohacker.com/gut-health-microbiome-dr-zach-bush-m-d/


----------



## doc-

Darren said:


> Bacteria becoming missing in Western societies' infants. It's not good.
> 
> "Scientists at the University of California, Davis, have found that a strain of bacteria called B. infantis that is thought to have been the dominant bacterium in the infant gut for all of human history is disappearing from the Western world. According to their research, this was probably caused by the rise in cesarean births, the overuse of antibiotics and the use of infant formula in place of breast milk."
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/opinion/babies-bacteria-breastfeeding-formula.html


 ???? May be a problem for those kids born by C-section or given antibiotics in infancy, but (a) how many does that actually include, and [2] what's that got to do with kids who aren't born by section or receive antibiotics? Maybe breast milk allows good growth of B. infantis but infant formula is lacking a needed bacterial growth factor. Thanks to Dr. Spock, most of the BabyBoomers were raised on formula and we're living longer than ever, so how important can it be?


----------



## doc-

Darren said:


> The secret to longevity is in the microbiome and the gut
> l


I always thought it was the length of your telomeres.


----------



## Darren

doc- said:


> I always thought it was the length of your telomeres.


Me too.


----------



## Darren

doc- said:


> ???? May be a problem for those kids born by C-section or given antibiotics in infancy, but (a) how many does that actually include, and [2] what's that got to do with kids who aren't born by section or receive antibiotics? Maybe breast milk allows good growth of B. infantis but infant formula is lacking a needed bacterial growth factor. Thanks to Dr. Spock, most of the BabyBoomers were raised on formula and we're living longer than ever, so how important can it be?


The jury may still be out for kids that were raised by germ phobic parents. Do more kids have allergies now than in the past?


----------



## doc-

light rain said:


> Hopefully the medical world will be proactive with the acceptance of how bacteria, viruses and fungi and other organisms populate us and our environment and not treat the new research with disdain and closed minds...





Darren said:


> Does your doctor know ... or care?


Most of these studies mentioned are small, making "statistical significance" less significant. But the real question is not if the statistics are significant, but, are the results _clinically_ significant? At this point the answer to that is "no." Your doctor may know about these results but he can't use them with any degree of certainty that changing your gut flora will alter the course of your health. Because the proper alteration is unknown, a change could also make you worse. (Sure, pills have side effects too, but they've been studied extensively and the rates of side effects are known, so informed decisions can be made. Not true for gut flora alteration.)

Which is cause and which is effect? Does illness alter the flora or does altered flora alter the illness? Maybe some of one and some of the other. Much, much more research is required.

My advice on "preventive medicine" was always [1] Don't smoke [2] Take your BP pills, & [3] Cross with the lights. Other than that, there's not much you can really do.


----------



## doc-

Darren said:


> The jury may still be out for kids that were raised by germ phobic parents. Do more kids have allergies now than in the past?


Kids with fastidious parents do seem to be more allergy prone than others. I don't know if allergies are more prevalent now. If they seem to be, is it just that it's reported more now? Cf- rising rate of "ADD"-- a diagnosis that gets a school system more funding.


----------



## Darren

doc- said:


> Most of these studies mentioned are small, making "statistical significance" less significant. But the real question is not if the statistics are significant, but, are the results _clinically_ significant? At this point the answer to that is "no." Your doctor may know about these results but he can't use them with any degree of certainty that changing your gut flora will alter the course of your health. Because the proper alteration is unknown, a change could also make you worse. (Sure, pills have side effects too, but they've been studied extensively and the rates of side effects are known, so informed decisions can be made. Not true for gut flora alteration.)
> 
> Which is cause and which is effect? Does illness alter the flora or does altered flora alter the illness? Maybe some of one and some of the other. Much, much more research is required.
> 
> My advice on "preventive medicine" was always [1] Don't smoke [2] Take your BP pills, & [3] Cross with the lights. Other than that, there's not much you can really do.


People are seeking FMTs for situations other than C diff. I agree that much research needs to be done. Whether a bacterial solution works or not is not going to interest the pharmaceutical industry. 

I add to your recommendations consider adding prebiotics to your diet.


----------



## Darren

doc- said:


> Kids with fastidious parents do seem to be more allergy prone than others. I don't know if allergies are more prevalent now. If they seem to be, is it just that it's reported more now? Cf- rising rate of "ADD"-- a diagnosis that gets a school system more funding.


Some of the ADD increase is due to more knowledge of the spectrum.


----------



## Darren

Vitamin D, a protein, bacteria and microbiota make food for thought. 

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-06-gut-microbes-partner-protein-vitamin.html


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria and markers for liver disease:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-06-gut-bacteria-markers-gun-liver.html


----------



## doc-

Darren said:


> Gut bacteria and markers for liver disease:
> 
> https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-06-gut-bacteria-markers-gun-liver.html


Confounding variables: fatty liver is not a disease-- it's just an accumulation of fat in the liver. Fat accumulates there when you eat (or drink) too much or when the liver is already diseased. Bacteria (normally limited to the colon and not higher up in the tract) metabolize food that passed thru the small intestine and wasn't absorbed. If more of a certain chemical produced by the bacteria is found, it's probably because they got more food to metabolize. The finding is probably an effect, not a cause. [You don't make gas; bacteria make gas.]

Remember: research funding is based on finding problems, and funding is cut off when you find there is no problem.


----------



## light rain

Doc, while your sugesstions for a healthy life supported by "preventive medicine" should help, I feel you put the horse before the cart. Before pushing the BP meds there should have been advice to stay in a healthy weight range for the person's gender, age and other possible health conditions. Diet and lower sodium intake will go a long way in this regards. Also walking, exercise and just plain movement help with BP. 

We have reduced our trips to restaurants by 80% mainly because it is almost impossible to find a meal under 1500 mgs. of sodium. 

As far as knowing the side affects of rx's I think that is up for debate. While $$$$ have been spent to learn all the possibilities of individual drugs do we really trust that the info has not been manipulated to get a drug on the market? I agree we don't know the possible side affects of influencing a person's gut flora. This area of medicine is in it's infancy. With the rise of obesity, type 2 diabetes, autism and suicide we need to search harder...


----------



## doc-

light rain said:


> .... Before pushing the BP meds there should have been advice to stay in a healthy weight range for the person's gender, age and other possible health conditions. Diet and lower sodium intake will go a long way in this regards.
> 
> 
> 
> ..


Commonly held belief, but wrong.

A) Obesity is not a cause of any disease. Excess calories (mainly from carbs) allows the diabetes genotype(s) to show themselves, but are completely harmless in those without that genetic content. Obesity is also associated with lack of exercise, which is itself associated with some CV disease. Are either causes of the disease? No, but exercising & avoiding obesity helps treat the disease.

2] Nor does salt cause any illness. Certain symptoms of some CV, liver or renal diseases can be alleviated/avoided by reduced sodium intake, but that doesn't affect the underlying disease. Avoiding salt won't prevent developing any disease.

BTW- treating hi BP lowers the risk of hemorrhagic stroke, CHF and hypertensive renal damage, but not the risk of MI. That's because in many cases, hi BP is a symptom of narrowed arteries ("hardened arteries") and not a disease in itself. Kinda like treating a fever does nothing to cure the infection.

One problem with exercise as a health measure is that it gives you no long lasting effect: once you quit, you revert quickly to your baseline state.

Longevity is all in the genes and in your stars. With good genes, you can abuse the heck out of yourself and still live a long time. With bad genes, nothing you do will help very much.

In regards the gut flora: the relationship between the bugs and the host has been evolving since the first worms developed a gut. Nothing persists in Nature that doesn't have survival value and isn't efficient. After 600 million yrs of working at it, I think MotherNature has bowels down pat...and it's not nice to try to fool MotherNature.


----------



## light rain

I could not disagree with you more. By saying it's all genetic absolves people of any resposibility and justifies the "well I'm helpless so I might as well do what I desire"... I think you find that same mentality in opiate and alcohol addiction.

We live in farm country and I see a lot of advertizing geared to farmers to feed their animals certain foods and supplements to produce healthy, marketable animals. While genetics is a factor so too is diet, clean water and sufficient space for each animal. Start neglecting anyone of these and the health and profit starts to dive. 

Since antibiotics were developed many lives, both people and farm animals have been saved. But at what cost to the mammals and their subsequent progeny? Thalidomide for miscarriages seemed like a good idea to the medical establishment at one time as well as codeine for babies.

Treating the disease while not eradicating the underlying factors gives the patient and their healthcare givers time to experiment with different options. It also improves the quality of life for the patient and their family. While you say that disease is based predominately on genetics I say go look at HS yearbooks from or 70 years ago and the relative absence of obesity. Did the human population undergo a radical genetic change since then? I believe we underwent a prolific advertizing onslaught that changed our diet and our movement. Also instead of making changes to either one when poor health presents itself a "take a pill" option was substituted. Exercise/movement was meant to be a life long activity. If you couldn't walk or run from harm you became the diversion to the predator that allowed others to escape. Along the lines of the fainting goat genetics...

I would say to anyone reading this post do your best to optimize your physical, mental and spiritual health because it is going to be a lot more effective than trying to change your genetics.


----------



## doc-

Re: animal feed--- designed to make animals bigger, faster-- nothing to do with healthier

Re: yr books from 70 y/a---all those skinny people had a life expectancy of 63 yrs. Today,all us fatties have life expectancy of 79 yrs. Good thing there's so much obesity today or we'd never die. Many reasons for longer lives now- less smoking so fewer people with CAD dropping dead in their 50s--and for those who still get early CAD, they're living 20 yrs longer due to by-pass surgery. Chemo therapy now allows so many kids with leukemia to live long lives, etc etc

If all things go right (ie- you don't get hit by a car on your bicycle or fall out of an airplane) your ultimate longevity is determined by your genetics-- you can't change that. You can't improve on it. There are things you can do to come up short of that ultimate limit: smoke, drink too much, bathe in benzene, don't follow your diet if you're diabetic--you get the idea.

Or maybe I should say it this way: all other things being equal, eating your Brussels Sprouts & Kale or avoiding eggs & beef won't add a day to your life.


----------



## light rain

Well again I find most of what you say to be doubtful.

Whether it is the crops the farmers grow themselves for feed or what they purchase the end goal is healthy animals. The loss of a cow or a horse correlates to a big financial loss. Healthy animals generally have healthy offspring and lower vet bills. 

Glad you are so pleased/elated about the level of obesity in America because it will help offset the dispair of seeing so many more children battling type 2 diabetes and the other diseases associated with it. 

Getting hit by a car, or falling out of an airplane are statistical long shots compared to deveoping cancer, kidney disease or CHF. All 3 of which are influenced/promoted by diet and lifestyle. 

I will continue to grow some of our own foods, lean a lot more towards vegetables and higher fiber foods, stay active and pray for wisdom. Don't think either one of us is likely to change our minds anytime soon...


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria as an indicator:

https://theconversation.com/gut-mic...robes are tiny sensors of your general health


----------



## doc-

Darren said:


> Gut bacteria as an indicator:


There's a simple reason why penguins don't live in Miami and white tail deer don't live in Antarctica: each species needs a special environment to supply its needs. The same can be said for the bugs in our guts.

I read the actual study you sited (not just the pop lit summary). Pretty stupid presentation. They studied 38 "diseases"- actually a combination of several diseases and a bunch of symptoms or complaints. They found the strongest association between altered gut flora and treatment: obviously antibiotics will change the flora; obviously PPIs (decrease stomach acid) will alter the gut environment; obviously diabetic drugs will alter sugar levels (the environment.) etc etc
They then try to turn this correlation into a cause/effect relationship, with the altered gut flora as the cause, when it more probably is the effect.

Classic example of study finds no problem---> no more research funding---> declare there is a problem anyway--->get more funds


----------



## vickinell

That is why it is hard for a person like me to figure out what to do. I try and see what seems to work for me, and I have tried to not eat simple sugars or carbs. My peaches are ripe and delicious so I am going to eat some of those and freeze some, and give some away.


----------



## Darren

doc- said:


> There's a simple reason why penguins don't live in Miami and white tail deer don't live in Antarctica: each species needs a special environment to supply its needs. The same can be said for the bugs in our guts.
> 
> I read the actual study you sited (not just the pop lit summary). Pretty stupid presentation. They studied 38 "diseases"- actually a combination of several diseases and a bunch of symptoms or complaints. They found the strongest association between altered gut flora and treatment: obviously antibiotics will change the flora; obviously PPIs (decrease stomach acid) will alter the gut environment; obviously diabetic drugs will alter sugar levels (the environment.) etc etc
> They then try to turn this correlation into a cause/effect relationship, with the altered gut flora as the cause, when it more probably is the effect.
> 
> Classic example of study finds no problem---> no more research funding---> declare there is a problem anyway--->get more funds


It would be interesting to see a study done on people with an autoimmune issue and no recent history of antibiotics.


----------



## doc-

vickinell said:


> That is why it is hard for a person like me to figure out what to do....


Do what comes naturally. Listen to your body, as Kramer warned Jerry. There's no such thing as a good or bad diet--only adequate or inadequate diet, and it's pretty hard to get an inadequate diet in the US. Of course if you have some special health problem- Lactase Deficiency, Celiac Disease, Diabetes, etc etc, then you have to watch what you eat.

BTW-those peaches sound good...wish we could grow them here. But sugar is sugar. Peaches have some glucose, some fructose (those two are interchangeable, basically the same thing) and some sucrose. Sucrose is the main sugar in sugar cane & sugar beets and consists of a glucose stuck together with a fructose. "Refined sugar" just means they took cane or beets in at the plant, ground 'em up and extracted the sucrose by dissolving it in water--basically the same thing your digestive enzymes would do if you ate the cane or beet whole.


----------



## doc-

Darren said:


> It would be interesting to see a study done on people with an autoimmune issue and no recent history of antibiotics.


Good thought.

The problem I see with this whole line of questioning is defining "normal." Dogs, for instance can sniff subtle differences in their buddies' bottoms indicating distinct individualities. We'd need to determine an individual's baseline normal, (? is that a constant or a variable portrait; how reproducible would the results be from time to time?) and then do serial exams (like we do with say, your blood count) to catch any changes indicating a change in health.

Sounds like a good PhD thesis but knowing the problem of culturing & quantifying stool samples, I doubt it will ever have any practical application ....PhD = Piled higher & Deeper


----------



## Darren

doc- said:


> Good thought.
> 
> The problem I see with this whole line of questioning is defining "normal." Dogs, for instance can sniff subtle differences in their buddies' bottoms indicating distinct individualities. We'd need to determine an individual's baseline normal, (? is that a constant or a variable portrait; how reproducible would the results be from time to time?) and then do serial exams (like we do with say, your blood count) to catch any changes indicating a change in health.
> 
> Sounds like a good PhD thesis but knowing the problem of culturing & quantifying stool samples, I doubt it will ever have any practical application ....PhD = Piled higher & Deeper


DNA analysis of stool samples are showing differences. That's the source of the correlations associated with diseases.


----------



## Darren

Autisim and the mother's gut biome: 

https://news.virginia.edu/content/a...UFacebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=news


----------



## MoonRiver

Something I recently learned is that a protein called zonulin is an indicator of leaky gut. A high level indicates a leaky gut and there is plenty of info on what you should do to lower zonulin.

Of course my body has to be different, so my zonulin is too low with little to no info on how to raise it.


----------



## MoonRiver

MoonRiver said:


> Something I recently learned is that a protein called zonulin is an indicator of leaky gut. A high level indicates a leaky gut and there is plenty of info on what you should do to lower zonulin.
> 
> Of course my body has to be different, so my zonulin is too low with little to no info on how to raise it.


Just rechecked my labs, and my zonulin is high - not low. At least that means I can find recommendations on how to bring it down.


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria, immune system and cancer treatment study: http://theconversation.com/could-yo...a-new-first-in-human-trial-investigates-99728


----------



## Darren

An example of collaboration in a healthy gut. https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...gut-promote-growth-of-healthy-microbiome.aspx


----------



## Darren

The protective mucus layer in your gut: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1931312817304985?via=ihub


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria enzyme can change type A blood to O: https://www.livescience.com/63394-gut-bacteria-enzyme-change-blood-type.html


----------



## Darren

Children and gut bacteria: https://www.fatherly.com/health-sci...ria-and-your-kids-behavior-just-got-stronger/


----------



## Darren

"... there is evidence that after ingestion of some live organisms in adequate amounts patients suffering from psychiatric illness can be treated."

https://www.zmescience.com/medicine/psychobiotic-germs-psychiatry-0423324/


----------



## Darren

"By now, the idea that gut bacteria affect a person’s health is not revolutionary. Many people know that these microbes influence digestion, allergies, and metabolism. The trend has become almost commonplace: New books appear regularly detailing precisely which diet will lead to optimum bacterial health.

But these microbes’ reach may extend much further, into the human brains. A growing group of researchers around the world are investigating how the microbiome, as this bacterial ecosystem is known, regulates how people think and feel. Scientists have found evidence that this assemblage—about a thousand different species of bacteria, trillions of cells that together weigh between one and three pounds—could play a crucial role in autism, anxiety, depression, and other disorders."

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/06/gut-bacteria-on-the-brain/395918/


----------



## Darren

Babies may have something (bacteria) you do not. https://www.livescience.com/63421-baby-poop-probiotic.html


----------



## Darren

Depression, evolution and gut bacteria diversity: 

"Since about 80 percent of your immune function is headquartered in your gut, one of the best ways to tell your immune system to "calm the hell down" is to cultivate a healthy, diverse gut flora."

https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/what-causes-depression-you-might-be-surprised-by-the-answer


----------



## Darren

Bacteria, but not in the gut and urinary tract infections: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110415083151.htm


----------



## doc-

Darren said:


> Bacteria, but not in the gut and urinary tract infections: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110415083151.htm


One true statement about the study-- further study is necessary. Small number of subjects & short time course-- a 50% difference in rate of infection (only a difference of 7 cases) may not be significant.

Let's say it is significant. Explanation? Easy: [a] Lacto- is a non-pathogen [2] UTis in females are almost always from improper hygiene technique- ie- self contamination with vaginal/colonic bacteria {C} if we change the ratio of pathogens to non-pathogens in the potentially contaminating sources, we'll change the risk of introducing pathogens.



Darren said:


> Depression, evolution and gut bacteria diversity:
> 
> "Since about 80 percent of your immune function is headquartered in your gut, one of the best ways to tell your immune system to "calm the hell down" is to cultivate a healthy, diverse gut flora."


80% is in the gut because that's where it's needed to keep the constant threat of colonic bacteria in check. Calm down that immune response and you increase the risk of invaders getting past the defenses.

MotheNature knows what she's doing. Don't tell her how to do her job.


----------



## Darren

Similarly inflammation is healing. Too much inflammation ...


----------



## Darren

Probiotics may not work depending on the individual. https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/...7418311024?showall=true#.W5IkEhfK2k8.facebook


----------



## 4tu

Teeth issues can cause a host of problems and I am just as sure are responsible for gut issues.


----------



## Darren

4tu said:


> Teeth issues can cause a host of problems and I am just as sure are responsible for gut issues.


That's true. There's info in this forum.


----------



## Darren

Artificial sweeteners are toxic to gut bacteria. http://www.sci-news.com/medicine/artificial-sweeteners-toxic-gut-bacteria-06468.html


----------



## doc-

Darren said:


> Artificial sweeteners are toxic to gut bacteria. http://www.sci-news.com/medicine/artificial-sweeteners-toxic-gut-bacteria-06468.html


It cracks me up how stupid so many research papers are. I'm not a fan of "science journalists" either- so the following comments may reflect bad reporting rather than bad research &conclusions by the researchers.


Apparently they took genes for bioluminescence and spliced them into E.coli. They then exposed the E.coli to the different sweeteners and measured the resulting bioluminesence. They don't say what concentration of chemical was use, but most studies like this usually use absurdly high levels that couldn't possibly be obtained in "normal" use of the product.

They found some sweeteners gave more bioluminescence, and some less. They then conclude that the chemicals "adversely affected" the gut flora.

Criticism: a) They didn't establish that the gut flora was "adversely affected," only that artificially inserted genes were either turned on or off. They could say nothing about the natural genes because they didn't test for them.

b) Keep in mind that E.coli comprise only about 1% of gut flora. They are easy to grow in the lab, as opposed to the other 99% which are mostly anaerobic and very hard to grow in the lab. For this reason, E.coli is often used as a marker of fecal contamination in environmental studies. Their study can say nothing about those 99% of bugs because they din't test them.

c) As mentioned above-- probably meaningless level of exposure was tested. Keep in mind that too much water or too much oxygen can kill you. There are no poisons-- only poisonous doses.


----------



## Darren

The gut biome, glucose and cancer: https://newatlas.com/cancer-glucose-microbiome/56568/


----------



## Darren

'It was an “unorthodox hypothesis” that might “fill flagrant knowledge gaps,” wrote one reviewer, but another said the planned work might add little “to what is currently known.” A third complained that although *Moir wanted to study whether microbes might be involved in causing Alzheimer’s, no one had proved that was the case. *

https://www.statnews.com/2018/10/29...il&utm_term=0_8cab1d7961-162a34e4df-150454653


----------



## Darren

Autoimmune issues linked to protein from gut bacteria: https://multiplesclerosisnewstoday....eria-can-trigger-autoimmunity-study-suggests/


----------



## doc-

Darren said:


> The gut biome, glucose and cancer: https://newatlas.com/cancer-glucose-microbiome/56568/


Really stupid waste of research money. ...without spending any money, we can make deductions based on a little already known knowledge: cancer cells grow faster than normal cells, ie- they must burn more energy. Cell metabolism uses sugar for energy, ergo- cancer cells need more sugar than normal cells. This is the basis of the PET Scan-- labeled glucose shows up in concentrated areas of cancer cells....if cancer is causing an increase in sugar consumption, then we can expect an change in levels of incretins, insulin & glucagon which are involved in maintaining sugar levels. 

No soup for you. NEXT!


----------



## Darren

doc- said:


> Really stupid waste of research money. ...without spending any money, we can make deductions based on a little already known knowledge: cancer cells grow faster than normal cells, ie- they must burn more energy. Cell metabolism uses sugar for energy, ergo- cancer cells need more sugar than normal cells. This is the basis of the PET Scan-- labeled glucose shows up in concentrated areas of cancer cells....if cancer is causing an increase in sugar consumption, then we can expect an change in levels of incretins, insulin & glucagon which are involved in maintaining sugar levels.
> 
> No soup for you. NEXT!


The body is a synergistic entity. The article discusses one influence (cancer) that seems to alter the gut to its advantage. Check out the article on Alzheimer's.


----------



## doc-

Darren said:


> 'It was an “unorthodox hypothesis” that might “fill flagrant knowledge gaps,” wrote one reviewer, but another said the planned work might add little “to what is currently known.” A third complained that although *Moir wanted to study whether microbes might be involved in causing Alzheimer’s, no one had proved that was the case. *
> 
> https://www.statnews.com/2018/10/29...il&utm_term=0_8cab1d7961-162a34e4df-150454653


 This article is a good expose' of the problems with "peer review." The peers are the established experts in a field and no doubt have established their position by being contributors to and advocates of the status quo. Anybody trying to show that the status quo is incorrect is a threat t their authority and expertise. They have a vested interest in denying new lines of thinking.

If the article is accurate about Moir's studies, it certainly bears more investigation. I'm a little skeptical that the beta-amyloid in Alzheimer's brains is a response to an infection--- more likely it's an abnormal immune response to the victim's own proteins (auto-immunity). Either way, it deserves more study.


----------



## doc-

Darren said:


> The body is a synergistic entity.* The article discusses one influence (cancer) that seems to alter the gut to its advantage*. Check out the article on Alzheimer's.


What nonsense. To begin with- the colonic contents isn't really "in" you body-- it's "surrounded" by your body. The colonic wall is pretty impermeable, with water being the only major thing flowing in or out. There is very little (if any at all) ingested sugar that makes it down to the colon. Evolution is usually extremely efficient. No sense in investing evolutionary energy in trying to scavenge extra sugar from a poor source like the colon when there is so much available in the conventional way.


----------



## doc-

Darren said:


> Autoimmune issues linked to protein from gut bacteria: https://multiplesclerosisnewstoday....eria-can-trigger-autoimmunity-study-suggests/


While MS may well be an example of auto-immune disease, and maybe ubiquitin is the culprit protein, ubiquitin is present in virtually all eukaryotic cells-- no need to call bacteroides from the colon into play here. We got plenty of our own.


----------



## Darren

doc- said:


> What nonsense. To begin with- the colonic contents isn't really "in" you body-- it's "surrounded" by your body. The colonic wall is pretty impermeable, with water being the only major thing flowing in or out. There is very little (if any at all) ingested sugar that makes it down to the colon. Evolution is usually extremely efficient. No sense in investing evolutionary energy in trying to scavenge extra sugar from a poor source like the colon when there is so much available in the conventional way.


What are your thoughts on this study? Is leaky gut possible in humans? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...5tGVAVlrKNfJVKfxdgGlkbIH1Y42TS4nLziSjWvMr_7OA


----------



## doc-

Darren said:


> What are your thoughts on this study? Is leaky gut possible in humans? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...5tGVAVlrKNfJVKfxdgGlkbIH1Y42TS4nLziSjWvMr_7OA


Seems like a lotta gibberish just to conclude that things don't work as well when you're old. they're adding in details that we'll have to know if we ever want to intervene.

Note that cancer levels rise as we age, while wrinkles get more plentiful, lymphocyte function deteriorates, sed rate (a measure of inflammatory proteins in the blood) goes up and hair loss gets worse. They are all highly correlated with each other. That doesn't mean any of them causes the others. 

Our inflammatory system and our healing system are quite the same thing. It's like having a construction company doing a remodeling job: part of your crew works on tearing out the old stuff while the rest of the crew works on putting in the new stuff-- same crew but specific jobs are assigned to specific guys. How fast & well you get the job done depends on how well the actions of each guy are coordinated.

As we age our repair crew works a little slower than the demolition crew so things don't go quite as well as when we we're younger. If this deterioration of, say, intestinal function were significant to the over-all process, then I'd expect a positive feedback system and quicker demise than we actually see. (Positive feedback always leads to destruction- cf- resonance & opera singers/crystal goblets or wind & the Tacoma Straights Bridge)

It just seems like incidental observations to me. Like the father who got the ransom note with a piece of his bad son's ear answered, "I want more proof."


----------



## Darren

Article on research and companies: https://labiotech.eu/features/microbiome-research-review/


----------



## Darren

Caloric restriction (CR) stimulates development of functional beige fat and extends healthy lifespan. https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolis...XNmYLrzgM_rpL0Fg1ouexAYh7fxrTDW0EGQY6ajYVHiT4


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria's role in red meat diet leading to higher levels of TMAO increasing chances of heart disease and stroke. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018...SWqeItFLqXbdSGmajgQ6l3D5J1PmSeygImL3Nlpy7MvSw


----------



## Darren

*Keywords: *Intestinal microbiota, _Bifidobacterium_, Probiotics, Dysbiosis, Inflammatory bowel disease, Irritable bowel syndrome, Colorectal cancer, Liver disease, Respiratory disease, Functional foods

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...z2oYTuIzvcV0rZ8ETDOm3YQX7msmCz9wSvv9BeeDXECM8


----------



## big rockpile

Bob Johnsun said:


> yep two teaspoons of apple cider vinegar 1 teaspoon of lime and 1 teaspoon of cranberry juice with water 3 times a day to help you out


Got to watch this some it will kill like me. Got to watch the acids.

big rockpile


----------



## Darren

Diet, Gut Microbiota, and Vitamins D + A in Multiple Sclerosis.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed...mOjnnamw6xElsmqt2zFcGQ3p5h3_mCaWiqdkWMw0OHLvc


----------



## Darren

Ongoing microbiome research: https://hms.harvard.edu/news/unexpl...dium=social&utm_campaign=hms-facebook-general


----------



## Darren

Irritable bowel syndrome: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22955358


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria, fiber and cardiovascular health: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018...EslYoK04M0X_qCJ9UzbKn4xQlYBGfhIaXb_6WETYrVLS0


----------



## Darren

MS and the gut: https://multiplesclerosisnewstoday....m_source=Notifications&utm_campaign=OneSignal


----------



## Darren

Leaky gut as a danger signal for autoimmune disease: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2017.00598/full


----------



## Darren

The previous article is the most informative I've found to date that's a key to future developments.


----------



## Darren

Gut biome and RA: https://genomemedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13073-016-0299-7


----------



## Darren

Gut biome samples used with AI to predict age: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...Imuk5roLfcChKszToogA1vHthPVgroBN7J6nv_1Q0zHHA


----------



## Darren

Metabolite produced by gut microbiota from pomegranates reduces inflammatory bowel disease

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019...1jVjhlzv2wMPPF_oIqY8MyWn6tCuz0Y1Ftnfemf0PY9gw


----------



## Darren

Dietary emulsifiers impact the mouse gut microbiota promoting colitis and metabolic syndrome.

"While the gut microbiota provides important benefits to its host, especially in metabolism and immune development, disturbance of the microbiota-host relationship is associated with numerous chronic inflammatory diseases, including inflammatory bowel disease and the group of obesity-associated diseases collectively referred to as metabolic syndrome. A primary means by which the intestine is protected from its microbiota is via multi-layered mucus structures that cover the intestinal surface, thereby allowing the vast majority of gut bacteria to be kept at a safe distance from epithelial cells that line the intestine. Thus, agents that disrupt mucus-bacterial interactions might have the potential to promote diseases associated with gut inflammation."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubm...ztWWodkFJicdcKV0Xl6J7OqCGJiBZ3WGLlBL6334VgCtM


----------



## Darren

Scientists identify a new 'watchdog' that controls intestinal bacteria

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019...GsqMuPJG1Th56K3dZFNNAYahq_9B5plht3q2xynJSnyD0


----------



## Darren

Depression and gut bacteria: https://www.technologynetworks.com/...VUeQa9JDDBl0CQ7O7yp1Oe_hRCp5dWED-Zo6Ly9l_782I


----------



## Darren

Schizophrenia and the gut biome. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2019/02/07/gut-bugs-may-shape-schizophrenia/#.XFy6N6BRfIV


----------



## Darren

Ginger and the gut: https://www.the-scientist.com/the-l...OiYONBujeJVNu7UYuaTtiZQCFPqVJc13Yy4yZMLF0nGdE


----------



## Darren

Research identifying gut bacteria: https://www.drugs.com/news/science-...26jWPMnQ3AvEYiEM3i8ysHPMJjQHwMH2Ee4USiJo7wVng


----------



## Darren

Schizophrenia and the gut: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019...N7xFgkHSU_tgW-fSQaHnq2z9-JmGRW7vAjFMIKn6WI4hs


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria and Lupus: https://www.drugs.com/news/gut-micr...gWDjQRTNPzNuf_oNtAbJRt_cu9YMyxqU3HfWez_ALFNSI


----------



## Darren

Allergies and the gut biome http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d...teria-food-allergies-microbiome/#.XHBci6BRfIU


----------



## Darren

Leukemia, gut bacteria and a simple treatment that's prolonged life in mice. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...m0mW6JINRkGOn3B_iU_ScfZgT5wLYAyTxoqvmjC7M2_ZE


----------



## Darren

Bacteria manipulate DNA "We know that gut bacteria can modulate the expression of certain genes, potentially influencing the onset of a variety of autoimmune diseases." https://newatlas.com/gut-bacteria-gene-expression-dna-control/58595/


----------



## Darren

Bacterial role in strokes and heart attacks. https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/...9CZekQrk8jE9NnYhhN22gxy3NFrPYVKmOwu5O5fk1XNEQ


----------



## Darren

What helps with leaky gut? https://humarian.com/b-longum-common-probiotic-strain/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...DLf5sUmkyMfm1rMHk_vV0odXNFqscHnZ_-TobvgmbzTPU


----------



## Darren

More on the gut mucosal layer. https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...2SnJ3MOblmfVw7mpk2NBCYM7Fp5wnygF6cmPGB0fc-NSU


----------



## Darren

More on the gut mucosal layer. https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...IaOWi2fqbQS8IJz8zQNPzanWazIaTnuLehEXxvanO-6yk


----------



## Darren

Schizophrenia and gut bacteria: https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/schizophrenias-link-to-the-gut?rebelltitem=3#rebelltitem3


----------



## Darren

Lupus flares and gut bacteria correlation: https://lupusnewstoday.com/2019/02/27/abnormal-gut-bacteria-sle-disease-activity-flares/


----------



## Darren

What enables a healthy gut? It's complex. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29438462


----------



## Darren

Website : microbiota for health

https://www.gutmicrobiotaforhealth....1GkkADx1KZgH9wjGyg0UiloSSbioevI4sS9Xoe1PiVtGY


----------



## Darren

I haven't read this book from Scientific American on the gut biome. It looks interesting from the index. https://www.scientificamerican.com/..._P1PslpD1uGcQtqRhAB6i-I_prz6c45Vpme8Z12JMTkrg


----------



## Darren

Mayo study results with autoimmune implications: https://discoverysedge.mayo.edu/201...POsgIVEJzQibNWVaBPjuDbP3xbSU4r2X08wMRq3WjqYWE


----------



## Darren

Gut dysbiosis and autoimmune: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29706647


----------



## Darren

Diet Could Influence Immunotherapy Response Via Microbiome

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticl...5Ok-_A7ELzc2wCYMj_PFFl6oJjEotE-9IzoavV9xrOlSc


----------



## Darren

Fungi and Crohns: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019...aPXiM4E4Mz2CKgClY3i4Bz92vqn5QVGH3Jne476rFIddI


----------



## Darren

Probiotics and colon cancer: https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2607/7/3/...I4hXNA61-3cMBa58r_OD-7Vse15PIcbaU72-HE1MlY7fY


----------



## Darren

Bacteria and Vitamin D deficiency. https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news...tamin-d-receptor-emerges-as-a-key-player.aspx


----------



## Darren

The gut and memory, it's not what you think. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5658613/


----------



## Darren

Strokes and the gut biome: https://newatlas.com/microbiome-str...ULiZUp8Pg7Mg6OgRSTwbxlv1fVnZpvwsXSgh7v6375opo


----------



## Darren

Bill Gates' is involved in research. https://www.businessinsider.com/bil...iXgtFTRl6chOGAYt6MywHtkKLq31S0rhFLlDAnujKIzRo


----------



## Darren

"Why do blood vessels naturally stiffen and degrade as we age, boosting cardiovascular disease risk? New University of Colorado Boulder research has identified a surprising new culprit—and it lives in your gut." https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019...xFiqcbMqyHtdNP4U39bntNz8TIBkTOKoXTtYDtTKQ7rkg


----------



## Darren

Mental issues (depression) and the gut biome: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...zDxHX-zS0-z7knBwVOfoBlHd4lGC0ae2NDES9jM3GvZes


----------



## Darren

Gut link to Parkinsons: https://www.sciencealert.com/there-...GIPSQasG3x4qVhVCbaSLrweHR2jROko_BLQOOTxhQK_fo

Link to Alzheimer: https://www.statnews.com/2018/10/29...il&utm_term=0_8cab1d7961-162a34e4df-150454653


----------



## Darren

Possible ALS gut biome link: http://www.alsresearchforum.org/scientists-go-for-the-gut-in-als/


----------



## vickinell

Darren said:


> The gut and memory, it's not what you think. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5658613/


Weird!


----------



## Darren

vickinell said:


> Weird!


 The memory part was amazing.
I know someone that has a photographic memory. They're fluent in several languages. They've passed as native in South America and speak Arabic. He's currently brushing up on Chinese to either teach or work as a translator. Per the article he should have an amazing network.


----------



## Darren

Does disease start in the mouth, the gut or both?

https://elifesciences.org/articles/...U3ZLePmZAadgJBvalCQdPt21I88--QRoPXIs2bUIj-***


----------



## Darren

Are we really human? http://unblindmymind.org/category/genetics/


----------



## Darren

Oral bacteria link to Alzheimer's: http://advances.sciencemag.org/cont...6Kh1p-Se79MevdTkvM414xBWVGYRjCT8G6NzJo5cY8Ya0


----------



## Darren

From the human gut biome project. https://realfarmacy.com/worlds-larg...lvZSm6b03Ba8G0Z8d7axzdSuqNjvvHldTaZf8thioQ5ho


----------



## Darren

The gut biome and depression. Still correlations but research continues. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41...U9sh3B4qn2LFvWT5w32biVdXrwYwg9XW0Uo7ImWxyivT0


----------



## Darren

Good bacteria are imperative for gut health. New research finds that another type of gut microbe could be endangering the beneficial bacteria population. 

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ar... 2019-04-17&utm_term=MNT Weekly News (HCP US)


----------



## Darren

Bacteria and pregnancy: https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/f...p4Kxdmb_EGY3IWvhyoDzY7lkSfScr-Rf1tdJx9_MMN5NM


----------



## Darren

Parkinson's and the gut: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019...LJg-AQ0hoX5qNmVKjoLo-6y_LqOeWcdbvYx-gQyDb4iC8


----------



## Darren

Can we run a poll in this forum? There's a recent discovery that may provide insight for those with an autoimmune issue.


----------



## red1

Darren said:


> Lots of stuff out there including the latest miracle diet promotions. More evidence about gut bacteria and medical issues coming out.


Back during the ostrich craze.. emu oil was considered a 'cure all'..Knew one guy that took a tbLs a day for his ulcer. The dallas cowboys had their stamp on some emu oil products for skin healing relief..Better than jergins..penetrates deeper...


----------



## Darren

red1 said:


> Back during the ostrich craze.. emu oil was considered a 'cure all'..Knew one guy that took a tbLs a day for his ulcer. The dallas cowboys had their stamp on some emu oil products for skin healing relief..Better than jergins..penetrates deeper...


Maybe there's something in using minerals for make up or is it just a get rich off a skin care fad? 

Is dirt healthy?

Some no longer bathe and use deodorant but rely on a natural skin biome. The surprise is the drop in blood pressure and less headaches. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...mell-meet-the-people-who-have-stopped-washing


----------



## Darren

Info for gut health: https://link.springer.com/article/1...CC8-FxfNKcIwEWxbXtI1Coi1M0sFZJFwkkmm97zppTXAc


----------



## Darren

An article on the debate on the term gut dysbiosis: https://undark.org/2019/10/21/micro...KHX_351epjj6hbYjznnXJ9Ke8AWnLn2sMVvjhdOszS8hA


----------



## Darren

Coffee and your gut: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019...ixcvH52EDPlZwdjlWoirJ8gUbFSMvSOtPDsaLFYbiYa1I


----------



## Darren

More gut brain stuff from an MS source. https://multiplesclerosisnewstoday....N-Hin2RLFnNSNlZ3b9_ELdnEDesxK_NDXPodtHmR6lT6w


----------



## Darren

Colorectal cancer and bacteria: https://www.medscape.com/viewarticl...J3KC3tH8RWfTRMvMEb_9_YsznNBllmER-Q6o2dn6Rmco4


----------



## Darren

Crohn's, gut dysbiosis and urease as a target for future treatment https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29141885


----------



## Darren

Future treatment for IBS. http://scitechupdates.com/empowerin...zYmMa7A4eYL-3vBvyIxZHXMPlarMDixpA71JIEjPrGYQg


----------



## Darren

Gut microbiota and depression: https://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/h...zLLFJkurUxf6JRO5D8-REB_UjvxRzHHsNtpbwLtYknhjE


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria: a missing link in psychiatry. 

"Thus, there is increasing evidence that some psychiatric disorders such as depression may be associated with a gut dysbiosis, a microbial imbalance."

"https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...Mg7DkNLXdwAMF1gYSFOPKw1dE8V2eIGMpCmeHDL52HEuI


----------



## Darren

Gut bacteria and drugs: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41...pcjtckFVjjnqcIHjypteHcH_qTTes5G9kO3L1bR4#Abs1


----------



## light rain

Darren said:


> Gut bacteria and drugs: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41...pcjtckFVjjnqcIHjypteHcH_qTTes5G9kO3L1bR4#Abs1


Why no more posts?


----------



## Darren

I haven't been actively looking. There's enough info here for anyone with an interest to use as a starting point. Several doctors I've met have agreed this is the frontier in medicine. If I find more articles, I'll post them. 

For those on FB there are several groups that focus on this.


----------



## light rain

Darren said:


> I haven't been actively looking. There's enough info here for anyone with an interest to use as a starting point. Several doctors I've met have agreed this is the frontier in medicine. If I find more articles, I'll post them.
> 
> For those on FB there are several groups that focus on this.


I was surprised you are silent on c-19.
Thanks for the info you already posted!


----------



## Darren

Those threads move too fast for me to keep track. I don't have much to contribute once it turns personal.


----------



## light rain

Darren said:


> Those threads move too fast for me to keep track. I don't have much to contribute once it turns personal.


Fair enough...


----------



## Darren

Good general article.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...6jkYzHGvwKmH8UlwtOv6P8aDJIh7q4cPKgzEx1D0p4vA#


----------



## Darren

For those of you that read this thread keep searching for gut microbiota, gut biome and gut dysbiosis along with your medical issue if an auto immune. Do that monthly. Lots of progress.

The new format is too difficult to be useful. Best wishes.


----------



## vickinell

I find the new format difficult also.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Thank you for all the information you've provided on gut biomes, Darren. Your information was greatly appreciated, and you leaving is a loss to the forum.


----------

