# $170,000 in student loans & can't find job



## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

*A guy with $170,000 in student loans who can't find a job*


I would say this guy is not homesteading material.

I do feel for his wife & kids, but he is the problem. Lack of wisdom is very costly.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Well, at one time - in America, you could borrow money to go to law school and get a job in the law profession, usually as a fairly well paid Lawyer.

No doubt, he went to a "cut rate" school, because, Harvard or Yale is much more.

No he's the bad guy, because he can't make ends meet.

Judge away.


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

plowjockey said:


> Well, at one time - in America, you could borrow money to go to law school and get a job in the law profession, usually as a fairly well paid Lawyer.
> 
> No doubt, he went to a "cut rate" school, because, Harvard or Yale is much more.
> 
> ...


Combine cut rate with a flooded employment market equals no job, do you really want someone who can't do basic research involved in your legal representation.


----------



## OffGridCooker (Jan 29, 2010)

Not to worry if you pledge to be a life long democrat and work for the government, Obama will commute your loan.


----------



## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Well, I can come up with a few ideas regarding getting Americans the chance to become as smart as they can but I cannot find a happy medium as to how to pay for it. I would say that the student loan idea is not the blessing that everyone thought it too be. So as not to get the conspiracy guards trampling this thread, what's the best way out of this? Why are so many job fields glutted? Were is the out for this mess?


----------



## OffGridCooker (Jan 29, 2010)

Education does not cause worth, does not cause wisdom, education does causes knowledge for what that is worth, knowledge is not worth as much as it use to be, with instant access to the wisdom of the ages on line. 
Education can and does enable wisdom and worth, but you can educate a fool and still wind up with an educated fool.
Personality is the largest factor, even more than IQ in my opinion.


----------



## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

OffGridCooker said:


> Education does not cause worth, does not cause wisdom, education does causes knowledge for what that is worth, knowledge is not worth as much as it use to be, with instant access to the wisdom of the ages on line.
> Education can and does enable wisdom and worth, but you can educate a fool and still wind up with an educated fool.
> Personality is the largest factor, even more than IQ in my opinion.


So, the learning of the proper work ethics are missing?


----------



## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

He couldn't pass the bar exam in two states, be interesting to know how many of his class mates could. If the majority could then it is most likely his fault, if only a few could then it is probably the college's fault for not having a good program. I would suggest though, he went into this with rose colored glasses.


----------



## OffGridCooker (Jan 29, 2010)

Shine said:


> So, the learning of the proper work ethics are missing?


Good point, add that to the list!


----------



## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

He is just lazy and not very bright.


----------



## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

A paralegal can make 50, 60 grand a year after they get established. Why isn't he doing that, or even a legal secretary makes more than the $25k he says in the article. 

The school might have been overselling its program but nobody put a gun to his head to sign for those loans.

He's just another case study in why it was such a bad idea to give student loans to just about anybody with a pulse. All those for profit schools got in the act to collect their share of the pie, and here we are.


----------



## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

IMHO we've done our youth a huge disservice by pushing the "everyone needs to go to college" agenda. Mike Rowe has a bunch of great info on his website about blue collar jobs.... you can get a trade certificate or associate's degree or even do an apprenticeship and get a job right out of the gate making more money (with little to no student loan debt) than the kid getting a 4-year liberal arts degree is going to make after racking up big bucks in student loans.

I have student loans, and I knew when I took them on that I was going to have to pay them back and what the rates were going to be. When you sign those papers, it's like signing up for a car loan or a mortgage....you're borrowing money, plain and simple. You know from day 1 that you're going to have to pay it back :shrug:

I had a super smart friend in college, wanted to be a veterinarian. She looked into it, and realized that vet school = 4 more years of college, $100,000 debt, and at the time starting salary for a vet was about $35,000. After some research, she found that pharmacy school = 4 more years of college, $100,000 in debt, starting salary $75,000. She's now a pharmacist.

This guy in the article isn't that bright..... it's been public knowledge for a very long time that there are more lawyers than law jobs. I worked as a counselor for adolescents and my last boss was a bar-passing attorney who couldn't get a job working at a law firm and there wasn't enough room in town for him to hang up his own shingle, so he had to back up and punt. Heck, they're hiring lawyers who have passed the bar to be magistrates in a lot of jurisdictions! The market has been flooded with attorneys for a decade or more, anyone who does a 10-second Google search could see that it's not a good field to go into right now.


----------



## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Shine said:


> Well, I can come up with a few ideas regarding getting Americans the chance to become as smart as they can but I cannot find a happy medium as to how to pay for it. I would say that the student loan idea is not the blessing that everyone thought it too be. So as not to get the conspiracy guards trampling this thread, what's the best way out of this? Why are so many job fields glutted? Were is the out for this mess?


The reason that so many people "need" student loans is because the government made loans cheap. Colleges could raise rates because you can get a loan easily. If the government hadn't gone crazy with the student loans, one could argue that college wouldn't cost nearly as much as it does because colleges will only charge what students can afford.

The out? Stop giving easy student loans, unless it is for an area where we need people AND they can get jobs that pay enough to pay them back (doctors, STEM fields). Stop giving easy loans in ridiculous amounts for degrees in which you could NEVER make the salary necessary to repay it (women's studies, teachers, art history majors).

I don't know that there are that many glutted fields - lawyers, yeah. I think the other areas where people are having problems are where you can bring cheaper labor in from overseas (Computers/IT) and then you have a lot of unemployed, middle aged Americans that can't get jobs because they cant afford to live on what that 22 year old single guy with the work VISA from India can.

For the record, I have a degree in Fine (studio) Art that I didn't take out any student loans to get, so I don't want to hear from anyone that I'm a heartless jerk that just wants to deny people their dreams. Do what you want to do but don't be stupid and expect others to pay for your stupidity.


----------



## cfuhrer (Jun 11, 2013)

At the risk of echoing bluemoonluck too closely;

At some point someone decided a JD is the new BA.
It has been well publicized for at least ten years that law school does not equal law job.
As someone pointed out he could work as a clerk or para and make pretty good coin.
If he could pass the bar he could hang a shingle and make as much as he was willing to work for.


Key words: willing to work for.

Even uber pays out as much as one is willing to put in.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

coolrunnin said:


> Combine cut rate with a flooded employment market equals no job, do you really want someone who can't do basic research involved in your legal representation.


The article stated that he graduated law school, in 2006, when there was still ample law jobs.

Was he supposed to have a crystal ball?


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

MO_cows said:


> A paralegal can make 50, 60 grand a year after they get established. Why isn't he doing that, or even a legal secretary makes more than the $25k he says in the article.
> 
> The school might have been overselling its program but nobody put a gun to his head to sign for those loans.
> 
> He's just another case study in why it was such a bad idea to give student loans to just about anybody with a pulse. All those for profit schools got in the act to collect their share of the pie, and here we are.





> Unfortunately, paralegals are included in the millions of middle-class paid jobs vanishing, the most vulnerable being those jobs that are "routine and repetitious." That particular phrase was actually in the ABA definition of a paralegal some years back. How little we knew.


http://estrinlegaled.typepad.com/my...e-vanishing-according-to-new-ap-analysis.html


----------



## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Hmmm. I worked on the KC area paralegal professional organization newsletter for years, and their "job bank" always had a few plum positions listed. Not all "paralegal" as the job title, but good jobs that the education and skills worked for. Good language skills, attention to detail, etc. A lot of corporations and government entities use paralegals, too. There is a lot more opportunity than just with a law firm.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Shine said:


> Well, I can come up with a few ideas regarding getting Americans the chance to become as smart as they can but I cannot find a happy medium as to how to pay for it. I would say that the student loan idea is not the blessing that everyone thought it too be. So as not to get the conspiracy guards trampling this thread, what's the best way out of this? Why are so many job fields glutted? Were is the out for this mess?


Student loans usually work fine, provided there are good paying jobs, to pay them back

Perhaps many here forgot that our economy melted down in 2008, taking with it millions of good jobs, that never came back and never will.

For instance Having a Computer Science degree, once was a ticket to the good life, for the last 25 years. Disney recently kicked their IT people to the curb, for H1B Indians, while technology gets cheaper and easier to maintain. 

Industry claims there is a shortage of MD's while cheap skate healthcare systems, dump them for lower paid PA's.

Pretty difficult for students to determine what jobs will be available, even though many of them want college degrees, no matter if they are awful.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

MO_cows said:


> Hmmm.* I worked on the KC area paralegal professional organization newsletter for years*, and their "job bank" always had a few plum positions listed. Not all "paralegal" as the job title, but good jobs that the education and skills worked for. Good language skills, attention to detail, etc. A lot of corporations and government entities use paralegals, too. * There is a lot more opportunity than just with a law firm.*


Since 2008? You sure? Since the crash, many companies have cut back on legals services, just like everything else.

the world has changed a bit in recent years.

I usually don't make this stuff up.



> For years, the Bureau of Labor Statistics predicted that the paralegal position was one of the fastest growing fields. In fact, as recently as 2011, the BLS predicted that from 2010 - 2020, paralegals would have an 18% growth rate (average). No longer.
> The position is being obliterated by technology according to a recent analysis by the Associated Press.  "Year after year," the analysis states, "software that runs computers and an array of other machines and devices becomes more sophisticated and powerful and capable of doing more efficiently tasks that humans have always done. For decades, science fiction warned of a future when we would be architects of our own obsolescence, replaced by our machines." Here's a great example: travel agents - similiar to paralegals in that it is a "helping" position. Now, gone due to technology.
> Unfortunately, paralegals are included in the millions of middle-class paid jobs vanishing, the most vulnerable being those jobs that are "routine and repetitious." That particular phrase was actually in the ABA definition of a paralegal some years back. How little we knew.


http://estrinlegaled.typepad.com/my_weblog/law_firm_trends/


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Let's see he is healthy has TWO degrees and the ability to take the bar. 
Seems like he could find a job or make one. 
Seems like he needs to get off his ass and pass the bar. 

Doesn't the army still hire those with degrees ?

Big deal he owes some money. I paid off more than that without a degree let alone two.


----------



## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Anyone notice the t-shirt in the first photo? That may explain quite a bit.

Knew quite a few who went to college, didn't work, and received loans because, "I'm young, I'm supposed to have fun!".

Mon


----------



## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

plowjockey said:


> Since 2008? You sure? Since the crash, many companies have cut back on legals services, just like everything else.
> 
> the world has changed a bit in recent years.
> 
> ...


I worked on it until 2013, and the number of listings was on the rise until the gig ended. Now that was just the KC area so other places would be different.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

AmericanStand said:


> Let's see he is healthy has TWO degrees and the ability to take the bar.
> Seems like he could find a job or make one.
> Seems like he needs to get off his ass and pass the bar.
> 
> ...



The story stated that his wife had terminal cancer, which might be putting a damper on things.


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I recently left the legal industry.. Trust me.. It's not as alive and well as you'd like to believe.. I got out when the gettin' was good... 

I watched firm after firm pay their attorneys to leave.. My wife's firm they paid attorneys to take a year off, (in hopes they would leave for good during that time)

Companies didn't want to pay their bills They complained the law firms charged too much, yet they needed their service.. 

I can list a huge list of things I saw, that is saying the legal industry is changing big time.. It's also not doing as well as it used to... Coming out of school to be an attorney is not where you want to be.. One firm I worked for wouldn't even consider a new attorney if they weren't in the top 3% of their school... It's gotten very cut throat.

BTW, there were very few attorneys I knew or met that could half way make it as a homesteader.. As I used to say to my wife, I"m glad they had to pay people like me to do their real thinking for them...


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

The guy may be a loser, but these threads, always seem to reek of irony, IMO.

The Obama economy is so bad and _real unemployment_ so high, because there are no good jobs out there.

However, if a college grad, with a lot of debt (most do) struggles or fails to find good work, they tend to be perceived as idiotic bums.

One suggestion was to start his own law business, which means more debt and might be a bit dubious, since established firms are shedding lawyers, paralegals and secretaries, because of a lack of business.

It all just seems so simple.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

plowjockey said:


> The story stated that his wife had terminal cancer, which might be putting a damper on things.



But wouldn't that add incentive to do the things I suggested ?


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Shine said:


> So, the learning of the proper work ethics are missing?


Lack of ethics is a problem, but the way I see it the lack of wisdom is the major flaw. A fool, no matter how well educated, is still a fool. I am oft reminded of my dear old daddy's saying: those that can.... Do, those that can't ... Teach, those that can neither do or teach ..... Peddle insurance. Those that can't peddle insurance have two options.... Go on the dole or run for public office.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

plowjockey said:


> The guy may be a loser, but these threads, always seem to reek of irony, IMO.
> 
> The Obama economy is so bad and _real unemployment_ so high, because there are no good jobs out there.
> 
> ...


Not so simple at all. The biggest part of the problem lies with us. Always looking for the cheapest this or that. The market reacts and wages start to go down, stagnate or get cut. Then we need it cheaper still and we start over again. Been going on for years. 

Then the economy wants to deflate and the FED keeps prices high by keeping inflation "in check". For the *whole 2 terms *of Obama they have been passing the problem down the line with QE so that the debt would cost them less and us more.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

mreynolds said:


> Then the economy wants to deflate and the FED keeps prices high by keeping inflation "in check". For the *whole 2 terms *of Obama they have been passing the problem down the line with QE so that the debt would cost them less and us more.


In an current, modern economy where average wages are down 23%, please explain how _deflation_, will make things better.

Just curious, since I have a hard time understanding how businesses and consumers, run without credit and how people could still buy lower priced stuff, when their own wages would continue to decline.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

> Originally Posted by *plowjockey*
> _The story stated that his wife had terminal cancer, which might be putting a damper on things._





AmericanStand said:


> But wouldn't that add incentive to do the things I suggested ?


Maybe, but it _sounds_ like it could be a tad bit_ overwhelming_, to work any job at some level, care for two kids, a wife who is dying, while studying for a very difficult _bar exam_, just so he can have near zero prospects, for getting a better job.

It might be easier for you.


----------



## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

I feel for the guy and his family. But, what startled me in reading the article is he chose NOT to go to Baylor, which has a well-known and respected law school and decided instead to go to a second rate school because it was in sunny San Diego. A Baylor law degree would be worth double or better the one he got. And he would have been prepared for the law exam.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

plowjockey said:


> In an current, modern economy where average wages are down 23%, please explain how _deflation_, will make things better.
> 
> Just curious, since I have a hard time understanding how businesses and consumers, run without credit and how people could still buy lower priced stuff, when their own wages would continue to decline.


How does inflation make it easier to buy anything? Wages appear to be low because of artificial inflation from the FED. Wages have stayed the same and the prices have left us behind. 

The money has to be able to adjust naturally. Supply and demand at its simplest. Stuff goes up, people start saving. When it goes back down they start buying. The FED wont allow it to go down because they don't want the debt to cost them more. People are still trying to save even though the FED wants us to spend. 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-retailers-risk-missing-modest-162145532.html?l=1


_"Sales have been sluggish so far this year as most consumers are still buying close to need," said Craig Johnson, president of Customer Growth Partners. "What's worse is the marked deceleration from a year ago," he said_.


The close to need buying is a big indicator of the economy and not the FED whims. The Feds "help" has been no such thing. Theey are only worried about themselves and not you and I. 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/federal-reserve-will-pay-banks--12-billion-in-2016-165253054.html?l=1#

_After six years of near-zero interest rates, the Fed is in uncharted territory. Never before has a central bank attempted to raise rates after having provided so much stimulus and expanding its balance sheet to such a degree_

Please show me where the stimulus is to the economy.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

mreynolds said:


> Please show me where the stimulus is to the economy.



Real GDP
Dec 31, 2008 14.58 trillion
Sep 30, 2015 16.42 trillion

http://www.multpl.com/us-gdp-inflation-adjusted/table

Unemployment
1/2009 7.8%
9/2015 5.0%

http://www.multpl.com/unemployment/table

Car Sales
2009 5.4 million
2014 7.9 million

http://www.statista.com/statistics/199974/us-car-sales-since-1951/

Home sales










Corporate Profits










Commercial Construction



> Contracts for commercial and residential construction projects in the Chicago area totaled $8.6 billion over the first 10 months of the year, up 16.3 percent from a year earlier, according to Dodge Data & Analytics, a data provider formerly known as McGraw-Hill Construction. Though that's the highest level since 2008, it's still well below the peak volume of $15.3 billion in the first 10 months of 2005.


http://www.chicagobusiness.com/real...est-year-since-2008-for-construction-industry

RV sales



> More Americans are taking to the road in recreational vehicles as sales of towable campers approach pre-recession levels and shipments of motorized models gain speed. The total for all new units sold this year is projected to rise about 11 percent from last year to 316,300, Walworth said. Meanwhile, 2014 looks like &#8220;another good year,&#8221; as sales could top 335,000, the most in six years.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-12-19/rv-sales-rebound-as-u-s-economy-improves-ecopulse


Stock market
2009 6400
2015 17,500


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Its easy to let that info paint a rosy picture with only part of the facts. The stock market was over 14,000 in 2007. So your 17,500 is only a nominal increase in almost a ten year span. 

Car buying is up because Obama has allowed sub prime auto loans again. Remember the sub prime house loans? 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/16/b...for-santanders-subprime-loan-bundle.html?_r=0

_Delinquencies on auto loans have been rising, more Americans are losing their cars to repossession, and inquiries have begun into the subprime auto industryâs lending practices_.

And lets no kid ourselves on the employment figures either. A job is not just a job. Lots of middle class jobs have been replaced by lower wage jobs. Lots of middle class construction jobs are being phased out by immigrant labor and cooking the books.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

mreynolds said:


> Its easy to let that info paint a rosy picture with only part of the facts. The stock market was over 14,000 in 2007. So your 17,500 is only a nominal increase in almost a ten year span.
> 
> Car buying is up because Obama has allowed sub prime auto loans again. Remember the sub prime house loans?
> 
> ...


So what?

The global economy went into a crashing free-fall, in 2008. Not a recession.

Something had to help bring it back, even if it is _far_ from 100% restored.

If you don't like stimulus and the Fed money policy, what should we have done different?


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

plowjockey said:


> Real GDP
> 
> 
> Unemployment
> ...


I don't count unemployment the same way the government does... or inflation.. or.....


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

mreynolds said:


> Its easy to let that info paint a rosy picture with only part of the facts. The stock market was over 14,000 in 2007. So your 17,500 is only a nominal increase in almost a ten year span.
> 
> Car buying is up because Obama has allowed sub prime auto loans again. Remember the sub prime house loans?
> 
> ...


So what?

The global economy went into a crashing free-fall, in 2008. Not a recession.

Something had to help bring it back, even if it is _far_ from 100% restored and yes, a lot of our problems were "kicked down the road". This is nothing new.

If you don't like stimulus and the Fed money policy, what should we have done different?

And please don't say tax cuts, or spending cuts, which would have just made things worse.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

plowjockey said:


> Maybe, but it _sounds_ like it could be a tad bit_ overwhelming_, to work any job at some level, care for two kids, a wife who is dying, while studying for a very difficult _bar exam_, just so he can have near zero prospects, for getting a better job.
> 
> It might be easier for you.



Nope no easier for me. And yes it sounds like a load but he is a young man. I can't see things getting easier. 

As for prospects if this man doesn't have any who does ?


----------



## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

simi-steading said:


> One firm I worked for wouldn't even consider a new attorney if they weren't in the top 3% of their school...


It's hard to believe, but _fully_ 50% of all students fall into the lower half of their class.


----------



## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

plowjockey said:


> So what?
> 
> The global economy went into a crashing free-fall, in 2008. Not a recession.
> 
> ...


100% restored? Get real, the economy will never be back to what it was pre-crash. It was a bubble, it wasn't real. What we have now, is real. Welcome to the new normal.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

plowjockey said:


> So what?
> 
> The global economy went into a crashing free-fall, in 2008. Not a recession.
> 
> ...


I am saying what I _have been_ saying. The economy needs to flow on a more natural course instead of being manipulated by the Fed. Even Bernanke has said that the great depression was caused by the Fed. The bubble in 2008 was too with allowing the sub prime house loans.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

MO_cows said:


> 100% restored? Get real, the economy will never be back to what it was pre-crash. It was a bubble, it wasn't real. What we have now, is real. Welcome to the new normal.


I was referring to a poster that stated that todays 17,000 DOW is not much of an improvement, when it was 14,000 in 2004, failing to acknowledge it was 6400 in 2009.

It's a bubble now and will continue to be so, until it bursts again.

It is the new normal indeed. It will never be the 1960's ever again.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

mreynolds said:


> I am saying what I _have been_ saying. The economy needs to flow on a more natural course instead of being manipulated by the Fed. Even Bernanke has said that the great depression was caused by the Fed. The bubble in 2008 was too with allowing the sub prime house loans.


With the economic nightmare come true, that was 2008, your solution would be to do absolutely nothing?

irregardless of what Bernanke said about the great depression, he was behind todays Fed QE 100%, mainly because it was his idea.



> Ben Bernanke introduced a first round of quantitative easing during the worst of the financial crisis, as global markets tumbled and liquidity was sucked out of the system. Quantitative easing is an unorthodox application of monetary policy by which a central bank, in this case the Federal Reserve, loosens monetary policy further after having dropped the Federal Funds rate to the zero range.


http://www.forbes.com/pictures/fi45mjjkh/fed-chairman-ben-bernanke-the-brains-behind-qe-3/


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

MO_cows said:


> 100% restored? Get real, the economy will never be back to what it was pre-crash.



History says you are wrong. 
Of course history doesn't predict the future but I'd bet on a expanding economy.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> As for prospects if this man doesn't have any who does ?


Those who pay attention, not only in class but to the world around them. It is not the schools fault he couldn't pass the bar exam, it's not his mamas fault he was born stupid. Where was his plan B? There wasn't one...... No one with a hint of intelligence would put $170,000 at risk without a backup plan in place. This guy is the poster child for "a fool and his money are soon parted.".


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

plowjockey said:


> With the economic nightmare come true, that was 2008, your solution would be to do absolutely nothing?
> 
> irregardless of what Bernanke said about the great depression, he was behind todays Fed QE 100%, mainly because it was his idea.
> 
> ...


Never said ZIRP shouldn't have been done in 2008. Yes Ben did enact it but he never intended it to last 7 years.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Those who pay attention, not only in class but to the world around them. It is not the schools fault he couldn't pass the bar exam, it's not his mamas fault he was born stupid. Where was his plan B? There wasn't one...... No one with a hint of intelligence would put $170,000 at risk without a backup plan in place. This guy is the poster child for "a fool and his money are soon parted.".



How about this for a backup. 
The man has two degrees a BS and JD. 
$170,000 really isn't that much. Over a. 40 year working life that's what perhaps $5 or $6,000 a year ? Surely it would have that much payback perhaps times ten or twenty ?


----------



## Knight9 (Dec 29, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> But wouldn't that add incentive to do the things I suggested ?


I'm reading it that he is the primary care giver and that it impacts his ability to get a job. Not quite the same thing as "no jobs out there".


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

There are no guarantees in life. Buck it up buttercup and pay what you owe, even if you have to ask a million people "do you want fries with that"?


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> How about this for a backup.
> The man has two degrees a BS and JD.
> $170,000 really isn't that much. Over a. 40 year working life that's what perhaps $5 or $6,000 a year ? Surely it would have that much payback perhaps times ten or twenty ?


Perhaps he can sell those degrees on eBay? That's not much backup plan in my estimation. $5K a year won't cover the interest most likely.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol tell ya what I will put my life experiance in a book and send it to him in return for his degrees!


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I do feel for the guy but I'm one of those people that believes that if one invests in an education in a field they truly feel it's something they'd love to do, they will succeeded regardless of statistics and those that simply pick an occupation based on get rich prospects will likely struggle in any market. 

I don't know if the man is wise or unwise because it's hard to determine his intention for selecting his chosen field but I don't feel it's the school's fault. 

My cousin the lawyer recently discovered that the field of law conflicted with his personal ethics and is much happier as an electrician.


----------



## joejeep92 (Oct 11, 2010)

Poor planning on his part. I know many people with virtually worthless degrees, they followed a passion which is great, but then neglected to have a plan on how they would actually bring their dreams to fruition in a manner that actually produced an income. Without graduate school, my BS is worthless, how much call is there for people with four years of training in biomedical chemistry? However, if you go the extra mile it opens doors to where you want to go.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

mreynolds said:


> Never said ZIRP shouldn't have been done in 2008. Yes Ben did enact it but he never intended it to last 7 years.


Fair enough.

October 28, 2008



> The Conference Board, a New York-based business research group, said Tuesday that its *Consumer Confidence Index plummeted to 38*in October from an upwardly revised reading of 61.4 in September.
> 
> 
> *Last month's decline brings the index to its lowest level since its inception in 1967.*
> ...


http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/28/news/economy/consumer_confidence/

Ok, so unemployment is heading to 10%, auto sales down 35%, mortgage foreclosures up 81%, bankruptcies up 32%, including economic stalwarts like GM and Lehman Brothers, people on welfare up 32%, hundreds of banks failing, with the rest leery about lending money to anyone, at all. DOW heading down the toilet.

That said, Stimulus got people working (and spending) again, even if a lot of the work was redundant and wasteful.

Cash-for-clunkers and the Chevy Volt, at least got people interested in looking at, or at least talking about, buying new cars.

Not allowing the standard-bearer of American industry - General Motors, to implode, showed Citizens that our government was functional enough to still help out those in need, even it if is a bloated Corporation.

Bailing out banks (big and small) and monsters like AIG, simply projected a plan towards financial stability

If these policies were bad policies, (they have brought the U.S. back from the brink, by turning around Consumers) what would have good policies?


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

plowjockey said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> October 28, 2008
> 
> ...


The best course of action would be to let the economy take its medicine. A little, or, a lot of creative destruction would be nice. Sure, it will hurt worse than removing full body wrap made of duct tape, but, the results would be far more stable both culturally and financially. 

Those policies just shored up the house of cards, temporarily, and will make the impending crash all the worse.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

plowjockey said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> October 28, 2008
> 
> ...


Doesn't matter what color the koolaid has been the last eight years, deflation is still coming. Oil has been deflating for most of the year. Oil gets to 20 a barrel and watch and see what happens to the global economy. You can only trick supply and demand for so long. 

And don't say that more people will travel now that prices have fell. That hasn't happened because they still cant afford to do anything once they get there. Sure, driving is up some but not in the same percentage as prices have gone down. Retail sales are off and they cant understand why. Its because the jobs cant keep up with the feds inflationary policies. 

But yet we hear that we just need a little more taxes paid in and everything will be alright.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

G'son just graduated from U of MO, Rolla w/engineering degree. Had 4 job offers. Was able to negotiate the one he wanted to less travel & more vacation.
There's jobs out there. Granted this isn't law but a JD offers many choices...


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Last I heard engineering degrees were the best ones to have. 
Tough to get but highly rewarded. 
Congratulations on a motivated Grandson.


----------

