# Mosin nagant rifles



## moonwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

Long barrel , heavy Russian military surplus sniper rifles
not expensive and available in decent condition. Ammo
7.62 x 54R fairly cheap in quantity.
How good are they ? Accurate ?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

they are rock solid bar of steel

not ergonomic at all the safety is a pain to put on or take off 

fitting optics to them is very limited

accuracy is no where near what you would accept from a new rifle of modern production certainly not anything you would call "sniper" 

a sub 400 dollar Savage , Ruger or Marlin bolt action rifle would serve you better with greater accuracy as a sniper rifle than a Mosin 

the cheap ammo doesn't turn out tight groups it is cheap because it was made cheap, fast with low tolerances and cheap materials


look at the "I got that one ragged hole" thread , you can have a rifle just like that for about 350 dollars , you will see a lot more sub MOA marlins, savages Howa and rugers than you will mosins 

buy Mosins as collectors , for fun , to play the sniper classic game on a budget , but not for a sub MOA gun


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Mosins are fun rifles.
I have the long 91/30 and the shorter M44 with the side folding bayonet.
Seems like the ones with the Tula star are more sought after, but I don't know that there's that much difference between those and the Izzy.
A lot of them have stock repairs, sometimes just a dutchman, or occasionally, somebody got creative.
My 91/30 has a spliced stock, but whoever did it was an artist. :grin:








And the M44









You can find a lot of good info at http://www.7.62x54r.net/


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Forgot to mention the habit they had of counter-boring the barrel.
Sometimes when they re-arsenaled these rifles, the muzzle would be dinged up, or the rifling bad towards the end of the barrel, and instead of rebarreling the rifles, they just bored out the first inch or two slightly larger than the bore.
I guess the theory was that they would bore down to the good rifling and improve accuracy.
My M44 is counter-bored and shoots fine.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

We tried the 91 in reproduction military sniper matches 300 and 600 yards. 

its a very rudimentary rifle (some call it "the club") the first one we bought was hand picked by the seller, knowing it was to be used in a national match by a junior. it shot about 1/2 to 3/4 minute with a lot of care by the armorer and shooters. it took $500.00 several years ago to get rifle with period mount and scope. 

the ones built by the fins were known to be generally better than the American or ruskie built ones.

in the past 8 years the supply has been pretty much picked over, with mostly rough worn out examples being sold now.. But good ones are out there. 



the felt recoil of the straight stock makes it a rifle that kills at both ends. as other have said, i would not consider it as a work gun. Although my son uses it for hunting,, he does it as a fluke. 

everyone should have one or six..


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## badlander (Jun 7, 2009)

We have several, all great guns, fun to shoot with a rich history behind them. Russian female snipers shot them back in WWII so if you worry about accuracy, just read up on their story. I stand in awe of these women who carried these heavy rifles and could hit what they were aiming at.

No, they may not be as accurate as some of the more modern rifles, heavy and clunky but then that depends a lot on who is shooting them and in the end, any gun is better than no gun at all.

One word of warning. They are dirty birds to shoot. If you buy one that has been cosmolined or neglected be prepared to work on it for hours before you find rifling in the barrels. Also be prepared to clean for hours after you shoot one because a lot of the ammo out there is very corrosive.

If available at a good price, pick one up along with ammo. The ammo is readily available and the rifles we have seen out there are reasonable enough that you can add one to your arsenal for the historic value if nothing else with no regrets afterwards, unlike an AR which can cost you thousands of dollars.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

And if you buy the 44 make sure you have very good ear protection.

LOL . .like an M80 going off 3.5' from your ears..........


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## hoosier hubby (Feb 2, 2012)

For around a hundred bucks for the 91/30. You can add a scope by removing the rear sight. Use the 7n1sniper rounds. They cost a little more but you can be good at 700+ yds.
It just doesn't get much cheaper for this kind of accuracy.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I paid $120 for mine. It was made in the Tula arsenal in 1942. It's in pretty good shape and after I moved the front sight a bit to the left it shoots pretty good. Good enough that I would have no problem using it for Deer hunting. Im playing with the idea of putting a red dot sight on it as my eyes are not what they used to be. 
They are fun to shoot, ammo is cheap ($7 FOR 20 rounds) and they are cool looking. I keep an 18" piece of sledge hammer handle with me when I shoot it because after 15 or so rounds you have to beat the bolt open. Fortunately it is a Russian gun, so that level of abuse has no effect. 
Because of the corrosive primers I run a bunch of patches soaked in windex through the bore to get the gunk out before a proper cleaning.
I don't think you could wear one out.


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## Rollochrome (Apr 9, 2012)

Some suffer from whats called "sticky bolt". Just google it. Easy fix with some polish and a brush wheel on the end of a drill or dremel once the bolt is removed.

I don't remember mine kicking more than any other big caliber bolt gun of that era, but I do remember it being much less accurate than a mauser. 

Also the cheap milsup ammo is nearly all corrosive so you end up having to ammonia wash the bore. Again, google it. No big deal


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## -justin- (Sep 7, 2014)

i would COMPLETELY disregard the above message, sticky bolt does not require the polishing of anything to fix.. sticky bolt is caused by excess cosmoline gelled up inside the inner workings of the bolt itself.. i disassembled my bolt, boiled the bits in soapy water, immediately dried them off when finished, re-oiled, reassembled, and havent had a sticky bolt problem ever since

as for the mosin nagant itself, im not a fan of the rifle if youre expecting more out of it than what it is.. the ergonomics of the stock is horrible, the straight comb is incredibly uncomfortable to use, the sights i dont mind so much, i prefer them over peep sights or ghost rings to be honest

also, the rifle is not going to be as accurate as most people would expect it to be for being a bolt action.. i have an AK-74 that can beat it for accuracy.. how is that possible?.. my mosin nagant has a 70 year old barrel made in a rush to sloppy as hell tolerance to support a major war effort, my AK-74 has a newly manufactured quality barrel made of modern barrel making practices

other aspects i displike of the mosin nagant is the design of the bolt handle being behind the front ring as opposed to being behind the rear ring like on mausers.. the problem with this is that the bolt is much further forward which requires a longer stretch and often a bit of a shift to grab

and then theres 7.62x54R, if you use milsurp ammo your accuracy will be even worse, but if you make your own ammo youll find both brass and .311-.312 bullets are very difficult to come by, having to be specially ordered online and you will have very, very little selection, currently i use 174 grain bullets but im planning to focus on customizing a load using 150 grains speer hot core .311 bullets

i use the mosin nagant because its a cheap, practically disposable tool you can use for deer hunting, i wouldnt expect anything more out of it and its not even going to do that comfortably


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## FakeMountainMan (Jul 9, 2014)

I had an M44, it was a lot of fun. Kinda like firing a canon. I would buy another at the right price, regret getting rid of it.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Took the bolt apart and low and behold, there was some cosmoline I missed. Cleaned it up and that took care of the sticky bolt. Thanks for the advice!


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

I think they make good starting guns for many people due to the low cost. I'm not impressed with them for much, though the better quality Finnish guns would interest me more. For what one of the Finnish guns would cost today, I'd rather have a modern sporter or a different military gun. The cheap ammo is great, and makes an otherwise les attractive gun more useful and practical, but if it dries up, it will end up being priced similarly to other ammo. Stock up while you can. I remember well when 30-06, 308, and 303 British was all easily available and CHEAP. Same for cheap 5.56. Things can change faster than you think. I'd consider the 7.62x54r to be a fun gun rather than a primary rifle for long term use. Once the ammo gets comparably priced to other stuff, I'd far rather have a much better gun. Just a few thoughts to keep in mind.

As to cleaning guns used with corrosive ammo, it doesn't take hours of cleaning, window cleaner, or anything else special. Using the correct bore solvent takes care of it nicely. Hoppes No 9 or Shooters Choice are both are good for corrosive ammo. Run a couple wet (with solvent) patches through them, wipe the other parts with the patches, leave for 5 minutes, clean with more wet patches and wet bore brush, clean with dry patches, oil after done.

For some reason people forget that Hoppes No 9 was developed long before non-corrosive ammo was used. Hoppes was the common solvent for all general cleaning in the early 1900's, and has ammonia that dissolves and cleans corrosive primer residue. I've used it on black powder guns (original 1886 Winchester out in hunting camp) as well with good results when nothing else was handy. 

Shooters choice works great with corrosive primers, and is an even better copper solvent than Hoppes. I shot scads of really disgustingly dirty German 308 corrosive ammo in the 80's, Shooters choice cleaned up my H-K rifle very well with not much work. The ammo was $2/box retail, cleaning the guns wasn't an issue for that price. We shot tons of the stuff while it was available.


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## bassmaster17327 (Apr 6, 2011)

I love the Mosin nagant rifles and you can still get 440 rnd spam cans of ammo for around a hundred bucks. You can ad a scope pretty cheap if you get a long eye relief scope and mount it to the rear sight base, to use a standard scope you have to drill and tap plus bend the bolt. They are starting to make more and more accessories for them. I was just trying to buy another mosin tonight but we couldn't agree on a price, I already own 5+ so I really didn't need another. Below are pics of to of the Mosins that I sporterized


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## S.A. Boggs (Oct 20, 2007)

The ONLY thing that will cleanout corrosive salts is water, good ole H2O and nothing else. Hoppe's #9 made today is a different formula then what was made many years ago. The CMP forum has a good article on cleaning after firing corrosive ammo. I use Windex (it is water based ) in a hot barrel followed with a patch and No Bore Brush. The ammonia in the Windex will attack the bore brush as it is brass. The water will help to dissolve the salts and loosen the crud in the bore opening up the water to dissolve and flush away the salts The ammonia will help to dissolve and loosen the copper. Not just the bore but anything that the salt will come in contact with. I.E., the bolt face, gas system and so forth. The British Army had a funnel placed @ the real of the barrel and hot water was poured down the bore to dissolve and wash away the corrosive salts, this was then followed up with a regular cleaning and oiling. Check the bore after 48 hours to see if any rust is developing and if it is, clean again. I have shot a great deal of corrosive ammo in a 98K and M1 Garand with no problem as long as the weapons are cleaned properly. No amount of oil will keep the salts with reacting with moisture in the air. I have seen many weapons destroyed by a lazy shooter. 
Sam


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I've read that a lot of people find most Mosin's are more accurate if you put the bayonet on them when shooting. Some say it's because it's changing the harmonics of the barrel when it's shot.. I've not had a chance to test that out with mine.

Also, if you can buy one with a hex receiver, those tend to be a little more collectible.. They are older and supposedly a little better quality control.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

S.A. Boggs said:


> The ONLY thing that will cleanout corrosive salts is water, good ole H2O and nothing else. Hoppe's #9 made today is a different formula then what was made many years ago. The CMP forum has a good article on cleaning after firing corrosive ammo. I use Windex (it is water based ) in a hot barrel followed with a patch and No Bore Brush. The ammonia in the Windex will attack the bore brush as it is brass. The water will help to dissolve the salts and loosen the crud in the bore opening up the water to dissolve and flush away the salts The ammonia will help to dissolve and loosen the copper. Not just the bore but anything that the salt will come in contact with. I.E., the bolt face, gas system and so forth. The British Army had a funnel placed @ the real of the barrel and hot water was poured down the bore to dissolve and wash away the corrosive salts, this was then followed up with a regular cleaning and oiling. Check the bore after 48 hours to see if any rust is developing and if it is, clean again. I have shot a great deal of corrosive ammo in a 98K and M1 Garand with no problem as long as the weapons are cleaned properly. No amount of oil will keep the salts with reacting with moisture in the air. I have seen many weapons destroyed by a lazy shooter.
> Sam


Do you mean the 5 page stickied thread on the CMP forum? If so, I don't think you read it very well. Besides your comments contradicting much of the info, including the original post, it contradicts many of the other posters in that threads experiences. Many didn't agree with the original post.

I don't agree with you, about several things. I've used Hoppes for a long time. I agree, it probably doesn't have as much ammonia as it used to, but it cleans corrosive primer residue just fine. If in doubt, clean it again after a day or so to be sure, before oiling it for storage. Their bench rest copper cleaner No 9 may be more like the older stuff, I don't know. The shooters choice also works well. Both are water based from what I've been told, unlike many more modern solvents. Whether they are or not, both work on corrosive primer residue when used well and correctly.

I've not had any problems with brushes and good copper capable cleaning solvents, though an old geezer dude shooting friend showed me a neat trick. He'd get the smallest possible size mayo jar, like convenience stores sold for exorbitant prices, and fill it with Coleman fuel (white gas) and dip his cleaning brushes in it after using them. They stay really pretty for quite a while. I did it for several years, then fell out of the habit.

Back on topic of Mosins, theres a guy that posts on several forums under the name Caribou. His real name is Chip Hailstone, his family has been on the Life Below Zero TV show. He and his wife use Finnish Mosins to subsistence hunt in NW Alaska. They shoot almost everything with the Mosins and ball ammo, including large bears. His wife shot a pretty big bear a year or so ago. It wasn't a record, but was quite large. They hunt year round for meat. I believe he shoots dozens of caribou each year, as well as seals, bears, small game, birds, fish, and whatever else they can find. There are posts of his on the high road forum and bushcraftusa forum. Pretty interesting stuff.

Agnes and her bear,

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_815527ut0...SrtQ/s1600/Windows+Photo+Viewer+Wallpaper.jpg

Agnes with one of her rifles. I sort of like the traditional chin tattoos.

http://i.imgur.com/cPbsOcc.png


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

Malamute said:


> Back on topic of Mosins, theres a guy that posts on several forums under the name Caribou. His real name is Chip Hailstone, his family has been on the Life Below Zero TV show. He and his wife use Finnish Mosins to subsistence hunt in NW Alaska. They shoot almost everything with the Mosins and ball ammo, including large bears. His wife shot a pretty big bear a year or so ago. It wasn't a record, but was quite large. They hunt year round for meat. I believe he shoots dozens of caribou each year, as well as seals, bears, small game, birds, fish, and whatever else they can find. There are posts of his on the high road forum and bushcraftusa forum. Pretty interesting stuff.
> 
> Agnes and her bear,
> 
> ...


I've never had any reason to use ball ammo on big game, and have never shot a bear. I've shot many many coyotes and prairie dogs using ball ammo though. Money was kinda scarce and I reloaded 223 and 22-250 with 55 grain FMJ's thinking that would be the ticket for less hide damage. And since I'd bought 1000 of them, tried to use them up as I could. Some coyotes acted as if they were never hit, while some suffered a good deal of damage.

I recall one setting on his haunches under a railroad trestle at maybe 250 yards. I took my shot, called it good and watched him. He never moved, but shortly fell over!

Eventually moved on to some better bullets that I never found to exit.

Guess people can use what they choose, or feel comfortable using. I just didn't feel comfortable with FMJ's, even on coyotes. Much less something that might come hunting me.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

I don't think ball ammo is the best choice for hunting either. He apparently tried various rounds available and found one that destabilizes quickly. I recall him writing he used one particular load. The cost of ammo is a serious factor in subsistence hunting in that area. I believe they load some of their ammo, but that one type of ball ammo seemed to work well for what they were doing. Some use 223's for their large game hunting, as the ammo isnt as expensive as larger (heavier) calibers. Most things come in by air. Weight costs money. I don't know how he had the ball ammo shipped, it may have been by ship freight in the summer.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Malamute said:


> I don't think ball ammo is the best choice for hunting either. He apparently tried various rounds available and found one that destabilizes quickly. I recall him writing he used one particular load. The cost of ammo is a serious factor in subsistence hunting in that area. I believe they load some of their ammo, but that one type of ball ammo seemed to work well for what they were doing. Some use 223's for their large game hunting, as the ammo isnt as expensive as larger (heavier) calibers. Most things come in by air. Weight costs money. I don't know how he had the ball ammo shipped, it may have been by ship freight in the summer.



I wonder if they found something akin to the British 303 mk7 that used a aluminum core in the nose and a lead core in the tail so that as soon as the stability of the bullet was compromised by hitting a target it flipped end for end and continued heavy end forward 

I found that almost any bullet will do this , I was shooting in deep snow , then when the snow melted I was able to go out an pick up the bullets they were all in a line from my shooting bench through target and all were pointing back towards the shooting bench 

it isn't a matter of if they will turn and go heavy end forward , but rather how far they will remain stable penetrating the target and will they exit before turning


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

I don't recall exactly what it was, I think accuracy was one factor, and terminal effect was another one. They handloaded some soft points also. He said his wife had a favorite load she liked and loaded, but they still used ball for some game shooting. I seem to recall it was ball she used on the large bear. It seems to have worked. I think it was pretty much done for after the first shot, but there was a finishing shot. So long as a bear is still moving, I think the idea is shoot it again. Theres a vid if it somewhere.


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