# Good all around bit?



## TennesseeMama23 (May 10, 2006)

We have a horse that our friends are keeping until Christmas. We need a bit, don't have any at all. I have the bridle/reins set.

The guy we got him from used a wonder bit on his horses, but he is a horse trader and this is not what Tucker is used to. I don't think we want a wonder bit as they seem harsh?

Tucker is very gentle, he neck reins and can easily be ridden with only a halter. I think he would do fine with a hackamore, but don't know if I want to go that direction since we are new to horses and a child will mostly be riding. My dd has never ridden with a hackamore (plus we do already have the bridle, which is no biggie if it would be better to use a hackamore). 

So, what is a gentle, all around, common bit I could start with? There are so many that it makes my head spin. I don't know whether to get a solid bar or broken or what?

I need a link with a picture (or an easy to google name for it) or I won't know what you are talking about. 

Thanks


----------



## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

Since he's gentle and well broke, and your daughter will be riding him and doesn't have alot of horse experience, I'd go with a nice thick "eggbutt" snaffle (a snaffle has a hinge in the middle of the mouth-what some may call "broken" as opposed to straight or solid).

A hackamore is not something that I would ever put into the hands of an inexperienced child rider. 

When she is more experienced, and has very good upper body control and steady-eddy hands, you could move them up to a curb bit if you want her to be able to neck rein with more finesse.

Honestly though, as broke as this guy sounds he'll probably just steer off her leg pressure and be happy as a clam in a plain snaffle.

All the good western trainers I've known started their babies in plain snaffles.

Edited to add: what size mouth does he have? The measurement is from one side of the mouth to the other.
I have several extra snaffle bits just collecting dust in my tack room and would be happy to send one to you gratis.
Mine are all 5" and work for my Thoroughbred horses, but I did have an arab cross years ago that took a 4 3/4" bit.


----------



## krische1012 (May 3, 2009)

http://www.SmartPakEquine.com/ProductClass.aspx?productclassid=7989&cm_vc=Search

This is one of my favorite all around bits.


----------



## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

Forgot to mention the reason you want a jointed in the center bit:

An unjointed bar puts more pressure across the horse's mouth when the rider pulls on one rein or the other. The hinge in the middle lessens the pressure, which makes it better for green horses to learn in and much softer on the mouth for horses that don't need heavy control. The snaffle bit will be FAR more forgiving of bouncy hands and the lack of coordination that all new riders experience.

The eggbutt ring as opposed to a "loose ring" means that the bit will stay more steady in the horse's mouth and that you won't risk having the corners of his lips pinched by sliding loose rings. 
Loose ring bits do serve a purpose, but only when the rider and horse are sophisticated enough to need the subtle difference in feel and pressure that such a bit provides.


----------



## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

There's a zillion bits out there and folks have their favorites. From what I see/hear, not all bits work on all mounts and you have to find what works best for your mount. 

Having light hands instead of heavy hands is what should be used no matter what you use for headgear.

You want to stay away from the hackamore, but that's what I've started all my youngsters with and it's what I've used to ride and drive all equine - mules, horses, donkeys. In 30+ years, I've never used a bit.


----------



## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

I like the one krische posted a link to.

A couple of definitions for you:

Snaffle bit - usually a jointed mouthpiece, but some have solid and straight mouthpieces. Main thing is that they work off direct pressure on the corners of the mouth, unlike a curb bit.

Curb bit - can any manner of mouthpiece, but also has shanks that apply a leverage action to the horse's bottom jaw and roof of it's mouth. Typically used in conjunction with a curb chain, which will add vise-like pressure when reins are pulled back.

*NOTE* - A Tom Thumb Snaffle is not a snaffle bit, it is a curb bit with a jointed mouthpiece.

Easiest way to tell the difference is to see where the reins attach - if they attach to a ring near the horse's mouth so direct pressure is applied to the corners, it's a snaffle. If they attach to the end of a shank (long or short, it does not matter) that induces a leverage action, it is a curb bit. The mouthpiece is immaterial.

ETA - there are two types of hackamores, one being the type also known as a bosal, which looks like a thick leather loop over the horse's nose with the reins coming off a single knot under the chin. The other is a mechanical hackamore, which usually has shanks and a piece that goes over the bridge of the nose as opposed to inside the mouth, and a curb chain.


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I've ridden in nothing but snaffles for the last 20 years or more. I use one of the eggbutt or D-ring types, several are jointed/broken in the center but most of my ponies seem to prefer the type they call a french-link snafle, which has a small center link joining the two larger outside bars. This lays flat on the tongue and the rein action "rounds" it over the tongue rather than "breaking" in the middle and having the joint bump the roof of the mouth. Ponies often have a more shallow mouth so this can definitely be an issue with them.


----------



## TennesseeMama23 (May 10, 2006)

farmergirl said:


> Since he's gentle and well broke, and your daughter will be riding him and doesn't have alot of horse experience, I'd go with a nice thick "eggbutt" snaffle (a snaffle has a hinge in the middle of the mouth-what some may call "broken" as opposed to straight or solid).
> 
> A hackamore is not something that I would ever put into the hands of an inexperienced child rider.
> 
> ...



Shoot, I didn't know I needed to measure. He is a 14hh quarter horse, he doesn't look narrow or wide to me. I'll try to measure next time I'm out there. You measure from outside corner to outside corner? I'm picturing myself trying to do it....

My friend has 8-9 horses ranging from Mustangs to quarter to foxtrotter to paints, they just used one of theirs on him, but I'm sure they knew how big his mouth looked and pulled out the appropriate size.

Thanks for the offer, I'd be glad to pay you some


----------



## TennesseeMama23 (May 10, 2006)

krische1012 said:


> http://www.SmartPakEquine.com/ProductClass.aspx?productclassid=7989&cm_vc=Search
> 
> This is one of my favorite all around bits.


I've looked at that at several sites and all the reviews are excellent.

Thanks.


----------



## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

I guess it's from folks being from all over on these forums is the reason things are so different than what I grew up with.

To this day, folks in my neck of the woods call the snaffle bit a runaway bit, yet so many of you use them. I have never used one so I'm just saying. Fortunately, I've never been on a runaway mount.

We don't have trails here. We ride cross country. Up and down the mountains, rocks, desert, washes. Those I ride with are like me -- don't show, no arena work, no round pens. We're just trail riders. So perhaps that's also the difference. Don't really know!


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

I use primarily single-jointed-mouth snaffle bits for riding, driving, plowing, logging, everything.

Some horses have a thick tongue or a low palate. A bit with a double-jointed mouthpiece works better on those horses because it keeps a lower profile in the mouth.

I have heard snaffle bits called "runaway bits" before - primarily in teamster circles - and it chaps my hide. People who are relying on a bit or other mechanical thingy to stop their horse are going to eventually have a runaway regardless of what hardware they resort to. Bits (or hackamores or whatever you want to lash to your horse's face) are not a substitute for good training.


----------



## malinda (May 12, 2002)

I really like the french link snaffles also, like the one krische mentioned. I've never heard a snaffle called a runaway bit.

A horse can stay in a snaffle it's entire life. You don't need a curb bit to neck rein and most western horses are started in a snaffle anyway. They only need to be in a curb for showing after they are 5 years old, per the show rules.

I ride Cross Country (one of the phases of Eventing) and jump and gallop in a french-link eggbutt snaffle. Most lower level Eventers are in a snaffle. Some of the upper level Eventers are in a more severe bit, but those horses can sometimes be a bit "hot" (they need to be) and also are ridden by very experienced riders.


----------



## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

Well, my equine are in a hackamore their entire life! -G-

Although, my hog drove wearing a horse halter and my steer rode/drove in a bit since they didn't have long enough noses for a hack.

Confused enough Tennessee Mama! 

How about talking to horse folks around you, folks who do what your daughter will be doing. Perhaps you can borrow bits from them to see what fits and works for the horse before you purchase.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I'm also a fan of the french link snaffle. It's a great bit.


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I've used several types of bits, snaffles, straight bar rubber snaffle (for a very sensitive mouth), halters, mild curb bits. I think mainly a well trained horse works off of body weight, the actions of the seat and legs and a light steady hand on the reins. Mostly with a good horse and a green rider, I'd definitely look for a bit that won't hurt the horse if the rider loses balance and uses the reins for balance. A large snaffle tends to be a decent choice for this. 

I'm sure Rogo doesn't have runaways, because she knows how to train and to ride, whatever bit or hackamore she is using. I'd love to see her work an equine!


----------



## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

I don't train like most. In fact I do little training. Many years ago I watched a gal work with her horses. I had never before seen anyone do what she did. I followed her ways, tweaking a bit when needed. I called her my 'guru.'

All my stock have always roamed free and whenever out there I rubbed ears, backs, bellies, croup, picked up hooves. That was my ground work. When a youngster was ready for a saddle, I let them sniff the saddle pad, put it on from one side, took it off and put it on from the other side. Did the same with the saddle. I mounted from both sides, rode around my property for a few minutes, then rode out away from my property. The following week, I took the youngster on a group ride. I started all my youngsters this way and had no problems. Just like my guru! 

I got my Mammoth jack when he was a baby. He was raised the same way. I started riding him and a few months later started breeding him. I rode him all through his breeding years and long afterwards.

I rode them on the flats the first year and the following year rode the mountains. Much of the training was done on the trail.

Granted, not many ride a critter out away from their property the first time a saddle is put on their back, but it proved to me what I've heard -- earn their trust and they'll do just about anything for you.

I certainly don't recommend my way, 'specially without knowing the personality of the rider.


----------



## katybug (Aug 11, 2010)

I'm also going to jump on the french link snaffle bandwagon. I just love them!! I broke my Chincoteague Pony with a full cheek french link (for better steering) and then moved on to a loose ring french link when he was a little older and we started working more on our dressage. I'm an eventer and I do all my jumping in a slow-twist snaffle with a flash. Gives me just a little bit of extra whoa when I need it as my pony has a nice thick pony neck and can get a little quick and on the forehand in the middle of a cross country course. I've been using the french link snaffles for about 15 years now and swear by them for all the basics!


----------



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

we use a western version of that bit, we call them dogbones. love them. got one, liked it, then got one for about all of them! we use a bit with sweet iron mouthpieces, they are black and dont' stay pretty but they are suppose to keep the horses' mouth moist. 

don't get anything aluminum. copper is good on the mouthpiece, too. s.steel is fine. just not alum. dries their mouth.


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Chrome-plated is bad news, too. If some of the chrome flakes off, it leaves a razor-sharp edge.


----------



## nduetime (Dec 15, 2005)

Just to add: it is always easier to go up to a harsher bit than to go back down to a more gentle one. Try to use the gentlest bit you can and work from there. I like the Robart no pinch bits and use a nice one on my mustang that has a little copper as well.


----------



## spinandslide (Jun 6, 2008)

First, I will say wonder bits are not harsh. they are a limited gag with curb action. Its actually a pretty easy bit for most horses to pack. 

Bits are only as harsh as the hands at the ends of the reins..period..end of story...
that is why I can ride my horses in a bit like this








or this..








Bits merely are for refining and adding finesse to a trained horse..
Now I am not ADVOCATING you use either of these..but my point in posting them is for educational purposes..bitting is truly an artform and something I firmly beleive even the weekend trail rider should have a firm grasp on..it makes it hard there are so many bits..but one should definantly do their best to aquint themselves with how all of them are used and why.

you say it wasnt what he was used to the wonderbit...did he act aggitated with the wonderbit? what bit was he used too? what other bits have you tried???

When did he last have his teeth done? this should be the first order of business..make sure his mouth is in tiptop shape, so any resistance to any bit you try cant be blamed on teeth issues.

IMO, to many people are very quick to go bitless and it can be disasterous if the horse truly doesnt understand HOW to be controled without a bit. Ive sadly heard of more then one occurence where the rider was ran away with, because said horse simply pushed and bullied his way thru the hack and did what he pleased. I know you said this horse is gentle and well trained..Im just advising...and I am not saying ALL those who go bitless are like this..I ran my barrel horses in hacks..but they could all go in bits too..and they were all very well broke, so they understand the hack represented a boundry, same as a bit does.

Has your daughter ridden in a curb bit before? if so, Id put him in this to start..








With a leather curb strap. Id use this bit merely to get a feel for what he likes..some horses dont like jointed bits, some dont like ports, some dont like solid mouthpieces,ect,ect. this bit is pretty "easy" on the bit scale..I use this particular bit on my lesson mare. 

If she's never ridden in a curb, definantly put him in a snaffle(but try it in an enclosed area first!) I like offset sweet iron Dee's personaly


----------



## saanengirl (Apr 7, 2009)

My preference is definitely a snaffle with a french or oval link. I do work with and give lessons on several different horses though, and there is one appy that I will not trust on the trail with my students without some sort of leverage. He is so strong that he can be difficult to stop if he gets excited. He rides in a wonderbit most of the time and does fine. I will probably keep him in a leveraged bit for most activities since he is so strong and works primarily off of the leg. I have to teach my students how to use leg with him, otherwise they can't direct him. 

Speaking of hackamores... There is one horse that I use for lessons (I teach riding lessons at a small HBCU) that used to be ridden in a hackamore. The girl that was barrel racing him rode him in a hack, even after he ran away with her. Shortly after I started teaching, he ran away with a student. Fortunately the student was not injured, and the horse went where most horses go: back to the barn. I put that horse in a bit and worked on "whoa." I can thankfully say that to date he has not run away with any more students. I initially put the runaway in a wonder bit, and worked back to a D ring snaffle. 

When I start a young horse, I like to start in a halter and keep the colt or filly in a halter or sidepull until we get to the canter. Once we are ready to canter, then I like to transition to a french or oval link snaffle.


----------



## nduetime (Dec 15, 2005)

spinandslide (love the name btw) 

I totally agree with you about the bit only being as harsh as the hands at the reins.

I just wish more people took the time to talk to others and try to find a somewhat experienced opinion like the OP is doing.

There are a ton of riders out on the trails etc that have not the experience or training needed for some of the bits they are using out there.

Hands are everything, your strength, your language, your compassion.


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

In my opinion, no shanked bit qualifies for the title "gentle, common, all-around bit". Yes, hands make the mouth. But I think we can all agree that some bits are easier to be harsh with than others. Bits without shanks, without ports (ports, not tongue relief) and with fat mouthpieces are gentler in inexperienced hands.


----------



## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

jennigrey said:


> In my opinion, no shanked bit qualifies for the title "gentle, common, all-around bit". Yes, hands make the mouth. But I think we can all agree that some bits are easier to be harsh with than others. Bits without shanks, without ports (ports, not tongue relief) and with fat mouthpieces are gentler in inexperienced hands.


Agreed.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

jennigrey said:


> In my opinion, no shanked bit qualifies for the title "gentle, common, all-around bit". Yes, hands make the mouth. But I think we can all agree that some bits are easier to be harsh with than others. Bits without shanks, without ports (ports, not tongue relief) and with fat mouthpieces are gentler in inexperienced hands.


I agree too.


----------



## Jay27 (Jan 11, 2010)

TennesseeMama23 said:


> The guy we got him from used a wonder bit on his horses, but he is a horse trader and this is not what Tucker is used to. I don't think we want a wonder bit as they seem harsh?


A bit is only as harsh as the hands it is in. I've seen people, yank, crank and jerk on a snaffle while another rider with a 'harsh' bit only had to lift a finger to get the desired response.

Also, while the horse may be gentle, that doesn't mean he is soft so recommending a bit is hard to do without seeing how the horse responds. 

If the horse is being riden by an inexperienced rider, I'd stay away from shanks and ports. Then, if the horse doesn't respond to light cues, I'd start stepping it up.


----------



## spinandslide (Jun 6, 2008)

nduetime said:


> spinandslide (love the name btw)
> 
> I totally agree with you about the bit only being as harsh as the hands at the reins.
> 
> ...


Thank Trish...I get weird looks, as I have something similar for my email, so when I give it to cashiers at stores for special offers, I get giggles or raised eyebrows..I have to let them know we raise reining and cowhorses..LOL

I do agree with what you are saying completly..as I said, bitting is truly an artform and IMO, each bit has a place (outside of those awful bike chain mule bits..ick) and a reason that it would be used. a friend of mine who works on Waggonner Ranch says "The bit is the line of communication to the horse..we want it as static free as possible..if a certain bit clears up the static, Im going to use it."
My own personal acedote to the above quote..being underbitted it like being in a conversation where you cant get a word in edgewise..being overbitted is like controling the conversation and not letting the other party talk..there IS a happy medium!


----------



## spinandslide (Jun 6, 2008)

jennigrey said:


> In my opinion, no shanked bit qualifies for the title "gentle, common, all-around bit". Yes, hands make the mouth. But I think we can all agree that some bits are easier to be harsh with than others. Bits without shanks, without ports (ports, not tongue relief) and with fat mouthpieces are gentler in inexperienced hands.


 yes, you are correct..to a point

you cannot, IMO, speak in absolutes when talking of bits and bitting.
If the horse has been properly schooled in how to pack a shanked bit, the bit I posted is a very nice bit..espc with the leather curb (which is what I really reccomend to preserve chin groove sensitivity and the only curb allowed in the NRCHA)

the bit I posted has no port(so little pallet pressure)..it provides abit of leverage, but, is the rider has ridden in a shanked bit before and the horse packs it and knows how to GIVE, its an awesome little bit..combined with the fact the shanks are shorter..so even LESS leverage is being applied. if the rider has ridden in a shanked bit before, the horse knows how to pack it, its a great bit.

To few facts are known about the rider's experience level and what the horse did to show he didnt like the wonderbit...again, have his teeth been done? Had his mouth checked?

Would you beleive there are horses out there who cant pack a thick mouthpiece? they have very shallow pallets..they hate them. Many a horse dont particularly care for snaffles either..they prefer a shanked and ported bit (yes, 100% honest, they DO)..so in their mind, a thick snaffle would be more uncomfortable, even in experienced hands, then say, a correction port..this is why I say, you cant speak in absolutes when bitting.

Snaffles are great..but I cant in good Concscience reccomend that is the "Best" way to go without more info..Since a wonderbit works similarly on the tounge like a snaffle, whose to say it was that action that upset him? Every horse should go in a snaffle..I know mine can, but they can also go in the ported bits I posted..whose to say this horse would prefer a shanked bit, either like I posted with the roller or perhaps a medium port grazing bit?

More information is needed about the horse and rider to gauge what bit would be ideal for their situation..all we all can really do is offer loose advice based on very little info...

Ideally, the OP would have an experienced friend or neighbor help, as they can physically see the horse and rider and help make suggestions. the OP can use this time to learn abouts bits and bitting.

I am not trying to be argumentative..so please, no one take my posts for this..I am merely trying to offer a higher understanding of bits here and howtheir are so many variables in choosing one.

Also, I am merely seeing that the OP's daughter has never ridden in a hack..not that shes not experienced..did I miss that in a post somewhere?


----------



## TennesseeMama23 (May 10, 2006)

spinandslide said:


> yes, you are correct..to a point
> 
> you cannot, IMO, speak in absolutes when talking of bits and bitting.
> If the horse has been properly schooled in how to pack a shanked bit, the bit I posted is a very nice bit..espc with the leather curb (which is what I really reccomend to preserve chin groove sensitivity and the only curb allowed in the NRCHA)
> ...



His teeth were floated in August. The horse trader only had Tucker for a short while and I don't even know how much he used a wonderbit on him. I just casually asked what kind of bit I needed for him and he said "I use a wonderbit", like it was what he uses on all horses. I know nothing about bits and that is why I wanted a good starter bit.


My dd is very inexperienced. She is riding 1.5 hours a week with a teen girl from church (has been since about spring). I hesitate to call it lessons because I think she is just getting experience on the back of a horse, not so much instruction. (I do plan on taking my dd and her horse to a real lesson place a couple of times a month when the weather gets a little better)


I just meant I need a starter bit, for a starter rider, for a well behaved/well trained horse. 

My horse friend is using a broken snaffle on him, but apparently there are a bazillion of those, so narrowing it down would be great.

I do plan on getting the highly recommended french link as soon as I can get him measured.


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I think if I kept just one "all around/ all purpose" bit for the beginning rides on "all" horses it would be a D-ring or eggbutt french link snaffle. Pretty hard to go wrong with that.

You may find that a particular horse will work better with a different bit after you ride for awhile but you are less likely to cause issues or add to an existing problem with this bit.


----------



## spinandslide (Jun 6, 2008)

this post gives ALOT more info! Thank you!

With this updated info, I will reccomend a offset Dee snaffle..that is my personal favorite snaffle bit and the one we step up into after a loosering when starting a horse. 

an offset dee









Make sure to check the material. I prefer sweet iron. Copper inserts are wonderful as well, but make sure it is not copper all the way thru. Copper is a very soft metal and unfortunantly with use, some horses have been known to actually chew thru them! 
(or at least create jagged edges~)


----------

