# What do you think about the Bobcat Toolcat?



## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

All, 

Looks like I will be buying 45 acres of row crop ground (not the best but not the worst) that I will be converting into pasture in several years (will cash rent as row crop ground for the next several years). 20 year loan but I figure I can have this paid of in 2-3 years. This land has no fencing. Also at some point, I may be fencing 200 acres that my grandmother owns and I may lease for pasture. I want to use new "drill stem pipe" and 60" red brand heavy duty field fencing for the entire perimeter fence (some of it may be 96" deer fencing around orchard area). I would install it while on leave (army vacation) over the course of a few years to spread out the cost (paying cash). I want to install one fence that will last a lifetime or more without having to worry too much about "escapes" (fence jumpers will be culled). Cross fencing will be high tensil ala Agmantoo's setup. Livestock will probably be smaller framed Angus and perhaps some sheep (for around the future house site--lawnmower duty). 

I am considering buying a used low hour Bobcat Toolcat 5600 or 5610 after the land is paid for. The new ones are too dang expensive; I could swing it but I would rather someone else take the depreciation. Hopefully, the 5610s will be on the used market by then (has rear PTO, hiflow hydralics, 3 point hitch). The main reason that I'm looking at this is the fact that I believe a post hole digger mounted on the front would be the cat's behind for drilling holes. A cheap used fullsized Ag tractor would eventually be purchased for larger tasks as well. Bobcat's Toolcat website:

http://www.bobcat.com/utility_machines/toolcat

Any of the more experienced (Agmantoo, Ozark Jewels, Kens Sharabok, etc) cattle/livestock folk want to comment on this equipment?

Moderators--I know this is somewhat the wrong forum, but there are folks that frequent this section of homesteading today that seem very experienced so please do not move this.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

a friend has one ...he gave $50,000 with lots of attachments.....i just do not see it...the question I always ask is after you put up that fence ...... that will last for a life time.....what will you use the machine for then...yes they come with a bucket but his will not load in anything high off the ground.. IT WILL ONLY LIFT THE BUCKET 7 FEET TALL...just tall enough for a man and his hat to walk under........will not lift the hay off a trailer that is stacked 2 high...... or out of a barn stacked 2 high with out going to a lot of trouble ..he has a trincher but it was like $4000... still think it is new unused in 7 years....you say 96 inch fencing that would be a 120 inch fence post or longer.... the bucket will not lift that high to push your steel post into the ground in winter time like my tractor does

they just do not lift that high to do lots of things the attachments are high...parts for it are real high....

to my knowledge...it is a mutli use tool that works but not the best for a farm


his has a cab with air but most the time getting in and out the doors are just in the way his has air but fixing fence and is a get in get out and work .......so when out working you get hotter when outside instead of cooling off

not a good thing to drive around and check cattle it is too heavy makes tracks his is 4 wheel drive and need is to get around in the winter

tjm

Lift 1,500 lb.* seven feet high with the front-mounted lift arm. The more than 40 Bobcat attachments give you a direct, comfortable view of your work, unlike a tractor where most of your attachments are rear mounted and require you to turn around to see them. Plus, the Toolcat 5600 and 5610 attachments can be changed in less than a minute &#8211; no tools required. More lifting



http://www.bobcat.com/utility_machines/toolcat


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## SteveO (Apr 14, 2009)

Sorry I have to agree with myers. If you are going to use this on (vacation) not a good thing the Hydr part needs to be used all the time so it does not dry out. I suggest you rent what you need to have and then send it back while you are away. 
If not then 75hp 4wheel or 2 if you are in the flats attachments are more available or rentable. Bobcat also weigh a lot and are big bucks to repair. This is more a hobby farm one size fits all machine
I have used just about every thing bobcat and this is a big landscapers machine.

Sorry to rain on your parade.
Steve


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

I have a skidsteer which has a number of things in common with the toolcat and neither will make a decent substitute for a tractor. Ground clearance is inadequate for the type of pasture work that I do. What is most unsuitable for my place is that I have hilly ground and need better stability. I have numerous places that I have to back the skidsteer up as it wants to rear backwards going forward. The availability of used or cheaper implements is much greater for a tractor. A 6 ft rotary cutter for a skidsteer is $4500. I can buy a top quality 6 ft cut rotary cutter for a tractor for a third of that price. I do not know what the forward speed is for a toolcat but most skidsteers do not have much road speed should you have to move to another location without trailering. Tires for a skidsteer type machine are expensive costing more than tractors tires that are many times larger. I would suggest sticking with a tractor. There are some good buys on tractors at this time, particularly used ones that are nearly new and with low hours. Buy a post driver to install your fence posts. A good used one should be available for $600 to $750. The post go in tight and a stay tight. There is a high tensile woven type (similar) that has grade 3 galvanizing the makes terrific fence. Never spray the fence with Roundup and this fence should last most people as long as they need a fence. Roundup is highly corrosive.


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

agmantoo said:


> I have a skidsteer which has a number of things in common with the toolcat and neither will make a decent substitute for a tractor. Ground clearance is inadequate for the type of pasture work that I do. What is most unsuitable for my place is that I have hilly ground and need better stability. I have numerous places that I have to back the skidsteer up as it wants to rear backwards going forward. The availability of used or cheaper implements is much greater for a tractor. A 6 ft rotary cutter for a skidsteer is $4500. I can buy a top quality 6 ft cut rotary cutter for a tractor for a third of that price. I do not know what the forward speed is for a toolcat but most skidsteers do not have much road speed should you have to move to another location without trailering. Tires for a skidsteer type machine are expensive costing more than tractors tires that are many times larger. I would suggest sticking with a tractor. There are some good buys on tractors at this time, particularly used ones that are nearly new and with low hours. Buy a post driver to install your fence posts. A good used one should be available for $600 to $750. The post go in tight and a stay tight. There is a high tensile woven type (similar) that has grade 3 galvanizing the makes terrific fence. Never spray the fence with Roundup and this fence should last most people as long as they need a fence. Roundup is highly corrosive.



Will a post driver handle 10-12' foot post (8' above ground--not sure on frost line requirements for below ground--I think 3' for N. Missouri)? 

I don't yet know my complete fencing requirement as I am considering signifcant plantings of improved black walnuts and/or Chinese Chestnuts and/or Pine Trees (for needle mulch crop) in a Silvopasture environment on the 200 acres (or other additional acres that I may purchase). 60" Field fencing and cages around young trees would probably me ok for this. Padocks for cattle would eventually consist of a mix of 50% orchard (cool season grasses) and 50% pasture (warm season grass/legumes). It will provide another crop, wind break in the winter, and shade in the summer (and perhaps extend cool season grass growth). 

However, I am also considering putting in significant amounts (15 acres) of blueberries, rasberries, drawf cherries, draw apples, and semi drawf asian pears for an U-Pick on the 45 acres. I would need an 8 to 10' fence (probably 10' with 8' of deer fencing and 2 ft of additional high tensil) around this area.

If I don't get the bobcat, I will still need a Ag sized tractor and an additonal compact utility tractor to mount a trencher (max size for trenchers I believe is 30hp) as I will have a significant amount of irrigation to take care of. Also, one of them (probably the Ag) will need a cab with AC--have to have the AC with a Cab or be baked alive and I need a cab if I have to spray (will use intergrated pest management so I hope that is not often--I believe in keeping the good soil organizms/benifecial insects healthy). Also, I believe in buying the best quality equipment that I can afford but it doesn't necessarily have to be new.

BTW, everyone has convinced me to no longer to look at the toolcat but I would consider a a used small to medium Bobcat Versahandler (faster than a skidsteer--the versahandlers and toolcats are all around 18 mph) if one came on the market at the right price. However, I will probably just stick with tractors (one can dream  ). I have no worries about seals drying up or equipment going down because of non-use. My parents live 3 miles away and I may keep it at their place anyway. The can run it on occasion.


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

Here is my 15 year plan for review/critique.

Year 15--first cow/calf sales--probably direct market grass fed--we will see what the market wants then

Year 12-13--Retirement--aquire foundation herd--probably small framed Angus--we wil see what the market wants then cull for easy calfing, health, attitude, fertility, weight gain on grass. 

Year 11 build house on 45 acres

Year 9--plant drawf apples/cherries, blueberries, asparagus, etc on 45 acres. Install fencing and plant additional acerage in Chinese Chestnuts and/or improve Black Walnut, and or Pines. 

Year 7--purchase at least 100 more acres (200+ would be better) and/or see about leasing the 200 acres of grandmothers that is coming out of CRP (parents have seven acres w/ house at this location--3.5 miles from the 45 acres)

Year 6--fence 45 acres (10' fences?) plant semi-drawf Asian Pears and some Chestnuts, start installing irrigation. 

Year 5--Rock drive way (culvert and access already installed). Build steel machine shed/shop.

Year 4--Convert 45 acres to grass/legumes. Buy large used Compact Utlity Tractor. Plant double or triple row of pines at north border (pallet saw mill located on north side across blacktop). Build 4-5 acre pond (six or seven acres with riparian buffer). 

Year 3--45 acres paid off. 

Years 1-3 Cash rent 45 acres for row crop.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

I suggest you back off the property line far enough to maintain a strip around the perimeter. This will give potential trespassers acknowledgment that there is a change in the land/ownership. With the perimeter tree planting back from the line you will not have storm damaged trees falling on the fence plus you can maintain the fence. Three rows is insufficient for a good strip of trees. I would want not less than 6. I would buy a conventional skidsteer and put a trencher on it. You can also get a post driver for a skidsteer. Yes, a post driver can be had to drive nearly any length fence post. I understand your enthusiasm but are you planning on having any help with all you are anticipating?


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## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

I don't know exactly where your acreage is but you mentioned North Missouri. My experience is that for a u-pick and direct sales grass fed beef operation to be successful you need to be close to a large, and preferably affluent, population base. 

If you are North of Hwy 36 not much fits that description except Kirksville unless you are on the extreme East or West side of the state. Simply not enough potential customers in small rural towns and areas to support that type operation, too many folks in those settings raise their own or have family or friends that farm to buy from.

And I wouldn't count on apples being much of a money maker, last year I had a bumper crop and wound up feeding a whole lot of them to the hogs. Couldn't give them away unless I wanted to pick and wash them and haul them to the food bank in Columbia. 

Of course I'm speaking of today's market, thing may be entirely different in your time frame. 

Trenchers are expensive and once the initial work is done most just sit and rust, they can be rented very reasonably and that eliminates the hassle of mounting and removing from your tractor and your money isn't tied up long term in an item not being used very much.

It sounds like you have a well thought out plan.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

only thing i would change is plant the trees FIRST year so I would not have to wait so long on a crop from the trees........they are in your plant planted the 6 year that would be 6 years to get estblished...just like 65284 you could not even thing of selling grass feed beef here everybody has that here or somebody they bought from last year



tjm


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

As a few pointed out about the toolcat and skid steers for that matter. Go with a mid size tractor with a loader on it. With the extra money you save buying it over the toolcat get a post auger to run off the tractor hyds. Many of the pole barn builders used tractors setup like this for yrs. You can get many different attactments for the loader just like a skid steer. Also when the loader is not needed you can back out of it and have a tractor to use for other jobs. Look into one with FWA it will get around better then a skid steer any day. 

SteveO
What do you mean by the hydro drying out on skid steers from extended periods of none use?
Bob


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

agmantoo said:


> I suggest you back off the property line far enough to maintain a strip around the perimeter. This will give potential trespassers acknowledgment that there is a change in the land/ownership. With the perimeter tree planting back from the line you will not have storm damaged trees falling on the fence plus you can maintain the fence. Three rows is insufficient for a good strip of trees. I would want not less than 6. I would buy a conventional skidsteer and put a trencher on it. You can also get a post driver for a skidsteer. Yes, a post driver can be had to drive nearly any length fence post. I understand your enthusiasm but are you planning on having any help with all you are anticipating?


Yep, I will have help. We have a good friend of the family that is the definition of a long haired country boy (looks like he should play for Leonard Skynard) who grew up on a cattle/row crop farm. He currently logs for most of his income. Way above minimum level for genius level IQ and one of those folks that can figure anything out. Also one of those guys who will not take payment (although if he does anywork for me, he will get paid, either cash or firearms).

I am from this area, so I know lots of people/farmers/ranchers.


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

65284 said:


> I don't know exactly where your acreage is but you mentioned North Missouri. My experience is that for a u-pick and direct sales grass fed beef operation to be successful you need to be close to a large, and preferably affluent, population base.
> 
> If you are North of Hwy 36 not much fits that description except Kirksville unless you are on the extreme East or West side of the state. Simply not enough potential customers in small rural towns and areas to support that type operation, too many folks in those settings raise their own or have family or friends that farm to buy from.
> 
> ...


65248

The acerage is in Randolph County so I'm just north of you.

I will probably not do the Upick thing and just plant enough for myself, extended family (most of live in Chariton Co), and as supplemental hog feed. I can be a people person if I need to be/job requires but I'm a natural introvert. I'd prefer no unwanted vistors, etc that would come with a Upick.


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

myersfarm said:


> only thing i would change is plant the trees FIRST year so I would not have to wait so long on a crop from the trees........they are in your plant planted the 6 year that would be 6 years to get estblished...just like 65284 you could not even thing of selling grass feed beef here everybody has that here or somebody they bought from last year
> 
> 
> 
> tjm


I will probably adjust the tree planting to year three; I really need to get a pond and irrigation in first--Chestnuts do better with a little added water. I just found out that the land is better row crop land than I thought and cash rents for $125 an acre. I was figuring $50 an acre (about CRP rate). I'll let the cash rent help pay for the principle until I've got it paid off. 

BTW I haven't walked the property. My dad has looked at it and I've google earthed it. I know where it is but I haven't been back home yet to see it in detail. I was saving up for a larger chunk but this acerage came up for sale and is very close to my parents' house and grandmother's acerage (could easily get tractor from the properties via gravel road in 20-30 minutes). I will post google earth images after the contract is signed.


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