# foal/milking issue



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

dh's mare foaled over the weekend, a filly. but, mare's udder is not looking milky--its sort of firm like your thigh, not like full of milk. her teats are flabby and empty. baby sucks often. we gave it some of my goat colostrum to be sure it got enough, but still she doesn't seem to be making enough milk.

vet told me to start trying to bottle her. good luck with that--she puts up a good fight over it, refusing any at all. its very fresh and warm. with the proper nipple. now what??? would this mean she IS getting enough? I don't like breeding for this very reason, its dh's deal and look who's trying to fix it. :flame:


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

My first suggestion would be get a tube of Domperidone from your vet and give it to the mare ... comes in a 5-dose syringe (paste) and is the only thing I know of that will often jump start/ increase milk production. We have a problem here with fescue grass and milking and I always keep a tube of it on hand during foaling season for just that reason.


----------



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

i'm waiting for vet to call me back to see if he has it. thanks.

*rant warning*.....
i'm so frustrated!!! as this is simply not my issue--its hubs. I don't breed, as I don't want these issues. I dont' think the mare should've been bred cuz she's nuts. she also has string halt all winter long. now I'M the one trying to deal with this. he's all hot headed over the issue, he just wanted to leave her in pasture, not think about any of it and wind up with a stellar baby. I could scream. he's mad at the mare!?? but did he do any pre foaling things like a bit of feed every day?? heck no. just pasture. and maybe it is enough for most, but why not stack the odds in your favor with a bit of TLC??? baby wants nothing to do with my goat milk bottles, so maybe she is getting enough, but maybe not, I dont' see any drips on her mouth and she only sucks for a few seconds each teat, then goes to the other. i have only seen a couple sucks last longer than a few seconds. so maybe she is keeping mom emptied??
but I know I really dont' feel like spending hours on this issue right now!! he runs off to work and spouts how busy he is and he can't take care of it. well duh, shoulda thought of that last year, huh??


----------



## 1sttimemom (Mar 1, 2005)

I 2nd what SFM said. It's the only thing I have heard of which can increase milk production. I have been lucky and never had a problem. In fact, our Morgan and pony mares have milked like CRAZY. My old mare Rosie would stream out milk constantly. Maybe you can find someone who has a mare in milk and will allow your foal to nurse. My old appy mare would allow her own foal plus the other mare's baby's to both nurse. I even have pics of 2 on her at the same time, one on each side.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

If you're unsure if the foal is getting enough milk, do the old pinch and pull skin test. They typically need to suck every 2 hours so they do dehydrate pretty fast. Realistically, if she was born on the weekend and she's alive, fighting and showing no signs of severe dehydration, something is working. Is there any chance she's just working the mare over hard enough that you just haven't seen her with a full udder?

Before you get too made at DH, you know there's nothing cuter than a foal


----------



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

yeah, since foal is fiesty and not dead, i have thought that something must be working ok at least! and yes, a baby is cute, but geesh, he has enough experience to know you shouldn't go into these things willy nilly like this, which is what he did, and if you do, be prepared to do the clean up too!! humpf!! 

and so far, no paste in the county. i will go out and pinch the foal tho., thanks for that, I didn't even think of it (but i knew that, :smack


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

chewie said:


> i'm waiting for vet to call me back to see if he has it. thanks.
> 
> *rant warning*.....
> i'm so frustrated!!! as this is simply not my issue--its hubs. I don't breed, as I don't want these issues. I dont' think the mare should've been bred cuz she's nuts. she also has string halt all winter long. now I'M the one trying to deal with this. he's all hot headed over the issue, he just wanted to leave her in pasture, not think about any of it and wind up with a stellar baby. I could scream. he's mad at the mare!?? but did he do any pre foaling things like a bit of feed every day?? heck no. just pasture. and maybe it is enough for most, but why not stack the odds in your favor with a bit of TLC??? baby wants nothing to do with my goat milk bottles, so maybe she is getting enough, but maybe not, I dont' see any drips on her mouth and she only sucks for a few seconds each teat, then goes to the other. i have only seen a couple sucks last longer than a few seconds. so maybe she is keeping mom emptied??
> but I know I really dont' feel like spending hours on this issue right now!! he runs off to work and spouts how busy he is and he can't take care of it. well duh, shoulda thought of that last year, huh??


Actually, that's sufficient reason to be mad at him.


----------



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

ok, just pinched baby and her hide didn't snap back very fast. so yeah, i think we have a problem. cr*p.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

chewie said:


> and so far, no paste in the county. i will go out and pinch the foal tho., thanks for that, I didn't even think of it (but i knew that, :smack


As your vet about Oxytocin then. It is typically used for retained placenta but quite a few vets recommend it to kick start milk production in mares and cows. I have a feeling that your vet like so many in rural areas specializes in cattle so might be at a bit of a loss as to what to suggest.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

chewie said:


> ok, just pinched baby and her hide didn't snap back very fast. so yeah, i think we have a problem. cr*p.


But her eyes are sunken and she's still scrappy? If so, great! I don't care for tubing foals so if you need advice there, maybe somebody else can help but I typically wedge foals against a fence/gate or some solid, slide thumb in the side of the mouth with nipple, raise chin with the other hand and they should start sucking when you remove your thumb but you may have to repeat until she gets the hang of it. I'd leave her with the mare between feedings and hope it is a matter of supplementing until the mare's milk production increases or my hand was forced.


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Another thing that can help with milk production is raspberry leaves. I get it in bulk and give nursing mares about a rounded tablespoon daily with grain. I've used it with dogs, horses and rabbits and it does seem to help with some of them though maybe not all.

I have had a problem with mares not producing as much milk as I think they should here in KY where there is a lot of fescue in the pastures. I've never had to supplement any of the foals, but I've given a lot of Domperidone to mares and I keep bulk raspberry leaves and feed them to all the nursing mares all summer as well. I know the fescue impacts milk production as when I moved down here with mares that I'd had in Montana that never had a problem often didn't produce nearly as much as they had before.

And I'd be irritated at DH as well ... if you're going to breed a mare ... you need to deal with any problems that happen.


----------



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

i've tried bottling her several times and she simply will NOT even try to suck. 

the vet did suggest oxy and is yet trying to get the paste. stay tuned....
*grumbling under breath* :grump:


----------



## CJBegins (Nov 20, 2009)

Will she suck your fingers? If so, put that warm milk in a bowl and work her nose down in the bowl. If she is very hungry, she will get a slirp or two and realize how yummy that milk is. I raised an orphan foal with bowls of milk. I never could get him to take a bottle. I would be tempted to put a little molasses on my finger or bottle nipple also.


----------



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

hey, thanks, i'll try that one too. dh tried using a dosing syringe and she still fought. its awful, like a train wreck, i'd rather shut my eyes of the whole mess but i just can't turn away.


----------



## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

chewie said:


> i'm waiting for vet to call me back to see if he has it. thanks.
> 
> *rant warning*.....
> i'm so frustrated!!! as this is simply not my issue--its hubs. I don't breed, as I don't want these issues. I dont' think the mare should've been bred cuz she's nuts. she also has string halt all winter long. now I'M the one trying to deal with this. he's all hot headed over the issue, he just wanted to leave her in pasture, not think about any of it and wind up with a stellar baby. I could scream. he's mad at the mare!?? but did he do any pre foaling things like a bit of feed every day?? heck no. just pasture. and maybe it is enough for most, but why not stack the odds in your favor with a bit of TLC??? baby wants nothing to do with my goat milk bottles, so maybe she is getting enough, but maybe not, I dont' see any drips on her mouth and she only sucks for a few seconds each teat, then goes to the other. i have only seen a couple sucks last longer than a few seconds. so maybe she is keeping mom emptied??
> but I know I really dont' feel like spending hours on this issue right now!! he runs off to work and spouts how busy he is and he can't take care of it. well duh, shoulda thought of that last year, huh??


I feel for you! Don't know if it's typical or our husbands are just two peas in a pod. Once we had decided to quit breeding and before Thunder was gelded, hubby left his gate open so he had free access to the mare herd. Well, needless to say we ended up with a mare pregnant, thankfully just one. Guess who had to spend her nights in the barn come the next Oct.? All suggestions of he should be the one on foal watch were met with a very sarcastic, "yea, right"!:frypan:


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

How is the foal this morning, Chewie?


----------



## Harmony_Meadows (Nov 4, 2007)

Hope you can get your foal on the right track. So sorry for the issues you are having. That is no fun. 

Now if this were my hubby and the little crap sucker was sneaking off to work and avoiding the mess he made he would be coming home to a pillow and blanket on the porch and all the locks changed with a note that simply says deal with it! That or I would simply be running up one side of him and back down the other until he got it. I am a little cranky like that!  Husband as just like spoiled colts. You need to be firm and clear with your discipline or they think they can walk all over you. Not in my house! Good luck, keep us posted!


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Harmony_Meadows said:


> Hope you can get your foal on the right track. So sorry for the issues you are having. That is no fun.
> 
> Now if this were my hubby and the little crap sucker was sneaking off to work and avoiding the mess he made he would be coming home to a pillow and blanket on the porch and all the locks changed with a note that simply says deal with it! That or I would simply be running up one side of him and back down the other until he got it. I am a little cranky like that!  Husband as just like spoiled colts. You need to be firm and clear with your discipline or they think they can walk all over you. Not in my house! Good luck, keep us posted!


Wouldn't it be better to load up the foal, a few bottles, syringes and anything else she might require and just drop her off at DH's work so he could deal with it?


----------



## Harmony_Meadows (Nov 4, 2007)

He is a government IT special consultant...never get past security and if I did no doubt some soft hearted public servant would do it for him. Nope, I can change a lock in 2 minutes easy as pie. But then, he does know better than to try anything so foolish!


----------



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

today is about the same. foal is now about hating us, mare still has what seems to be little to no milk. but-dd seen foal bucking and carrying on, that does not sound like a weakened baby to me. she still fights like crazy when I try to give her any milk--been trying a drench gun and she'll hold it for the longest time, then spit/drizzle it all back out. argh! so am I wrong thinking this foal might just be doing well enough without my help?? 

and yeah, the hubs issue is a whole nuther issue. sometimes things like this wind up in my favor in the long run--next time he has one of these idiot ideas I can have a very solid reason for NO. has worked this way many times with the matter of his nutty mother--i will be very certain about something and say no way, but then he goes on about it because there's 'no proof' so to speak. then the woman goes and does what I was afraid of, thereby giving me a free pass forevermore in that issue, as I know have the 'proof'. make sense?


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

chewie said:


> today is about the same. foal is now about hating us, mare still has what seems to be little to no milk. but-dd seen foal bucking and carrying on, that does not sound like a weakened baby to me. she still fights like crazy when I try to give her any milk--been trying a drench gun and she'll hold it for the longest time, then spit/drizzle it all back out. argh! so am I wrong thinking this foal might just be doing well enough without my help??


You're an excellent mom and I've found that mom instinct has gotten me through many equine and bovine messes. 

Realistically, if baby was born on the weekend and still has plenty of fight, I'm guessing she's getting a certain amount of nourishment. I suspect the mare has milk but maybe doesn't have a great deal. With any luck at all, it will increase to meet the foals requirements but if your vet locates oxy, I'd suggest picking it up and administering it. 

If I were you, I'd watch her for the next while, but be ready if the foal shows signs of weakening. 

Like your husband, I've come up with the odd great idea that wasn't quite so great in reality, including a small set of pygmy goat triplets in my kitchen during the longest cold snap in the history of Alberta, two heifers that came from Colorado with no winter hair that were also delivered during the same cold snap, a free to good home appaloosa gelding that cost me 6 weeks of wages, a yellow steer that preferred the alfalfa that Alberta Transportation plants in the ditches over the knee high grass in the pasture and the crazy longhorn cow I shot because she tried to kill me before I remembered I was going to have to figure out how to bottle feed her equally as crazy calf.


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Is there any chance the foal has a problem with her mouth and doesn't nurse well to start with? If she's getting some, but not emptying the mother out, the mother won't milk up more than she's emptied. Just a thought.


----------



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

wr--hehe, you must be made of the same cloth as my hubs. I also have a bored border collie female I said 'do not go get that dog' over, but here she is anyhow. (her name is alimony btw!) he gets these wise ideas, that in a perfect world would work fine, but I know we are NOT in such a place, and i err on the side of caution instead. want a new horse? go buy a weanling, not make one! only thing i breed is my goats, but kinda have to, to get milk! and that is plenty of stress.

anyhoo, i have watched and baby nurses fine, her mouth is fine, mom just doesn't have much. we've oxy'ed her and today should get that gel, but i fear its too late for that to work. i will just keep an eye on it and if any issues i will find a way to bottle her. i really really do not want to take baby from mom, as this other orphan showed me how lonely they are. and, mom would teach her manners that a human simply cannot. 

when baby does nurse, there is never any drips or dribbles , and the teats are yet pretty flat and empty looking. but, baby refuses very strongly to any try of mine for milk, and with her spunky attitude, i am just going to wait and watch at this point. being almost a week old and looking good, i have to think mom is giving enough at least, baby's legs are getting stronger, she's bright eyes, etc. so i'm kinda at a stand still i guess. :shrug:


----------



## tinah (Feb 26, 2009)

Okay, here's how mammalian milk production works: the more baby nurses, the more milk momma will make. The less baby nurses (because of supplimentation with bottles and whatnot) the less mommy's body will make milk. The size of the milk-bag has nothing to do with how much milkmaking tissue is inside. Momma needs lots of water and food to make milk. So feed momma more. Beet pulp and rice bran is good, senior feed is good, sweet feed not so much.


----------



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

i fully get supply and demand--i've been a 'milk maid' for many many years. and not always does more demand garner more production, that is my fear here. but, as you said, momma must be making enough and perhaps has it 'up high', as baby seems very bouncy! we are feeding a mare and foal pellet. i should try beet pulp, it usually gets my does milking more if they are on the lighter side. good plan!


----------

