# You biggest fears have happened



## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

( your )...what are they? Tell us what your absolute worse case scenario is. The thing you dread. Then tell us how you have ( or should ) prepare against it.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

#1. We get into an actual large scale nuclear war with China/Russia. The bombs go off, we have a short time to get in some kind of shelter, and have to stay there for many weeks. When it finally is safe enough to come out, we find all our livestock and most of the wild game is dead from radiation poisoning, and our growing land is too 'hot' to use for several years. Followed by the lack of re-supply issues (food, parts, etc) those not killed in the initial attack, or the months that follow, are left in a fairly dismal state of affairs.


#2. EMP or CME knocks out the power grid. All the nuke plants go on standby diesel generators and do an orderly, safe shut down. 

However, their water storage pools for spent fuel rods, which have to be constantly refilled by electric pumps run by those diesel generators, are limited to a few weeks to a month by the amount of stored diesel fuel. Those generators begin to shut down from lack of fuel, the water is boiled off the fuel pools, the rods heat up, melt, exposing radioactive particles into the air. These spread for many miles with the wind. Much of the country downwind of these plants is contaminated for a LONG time. Fukishima X several dozen.

#3. We suffer an economic collapse, the dollar won't buy anything, social chaos sets in. Not only do the cities burn as people riot for food/water/etc, but many in the rural areas are not very well prepared for long term, and you have to spend your days/nights on guard because "Bubba" down the road is hungry, his wife and kids are hungry, and he has a rusty 30-30 and half a box of shells left from his last deer hunting/beer drinking party 3 years ago. He thinks you have "stuff", and you need to share. He doesn't come asking, he comes in the night to take.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Being confined, restricted, imprisoned, or otherwise having my freedom to be a human being infringed on. Zombies are fine. I know the rules. Cardio....Doubletap.:thumb:


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

I have no fears. I am totally self sufficient and self reliant. I have a huge harem of women who are devoted to me and never question my orders or desires. Life is good, no worries.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

TnAndy hit the nail on the head for my 3 worst case scenarios. 

Now, what can we do to prepare or have we already prepared? I'll have to get back to you on that one.


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## CraftyLady (Jul 18, 2014)

My WCS will happen one day. My greatest fear is the death of my Husband. Oh, he's fine right now. But, he has his skills and I have mine. I really don't want to learn his skills. But, someday I will wish I had. And isn't that what we are really talking about here?
Other people care for us in some way. We turn on the lights and bingo, lights. We turn on the faucet and pure clean water flows from the tap. 

I'm thinking about how to I live in my old age w/o my safety net. We all have one. 

Yes, someday the worst might or as some see it, will happen. I want to be ready for the probable. And I'll also check into the what if.


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## Mutti (Sep 7, 2002)

My fear is that my son will be 3 hrs. away at his weekend job and not be able to get home...or that other son/dil will be called to active duty against fellow Americans.

I've been having Pa show me the things he does now to keep things going and have a notebook. He runs the outdoor boiler, switches stuff in the basement that runs the baseboard hot water heat. Does the transfer switch for generator and hooks it up to tractor which is fairly easy and I could do with sons help.


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## snakeshooter1 (Mar 8, 2009)

bowdonkey can I be your best friend lol. My greatest fear is not being able to provide and protect my family.


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## stars01 (Jun 24, 2006)

I wasn't going to say anything but our preps saved us and maybe our story can help someone else. 

I always thought our worse case scenario would be a tornado or a job loss but in August 2013 my husband was driving his motorcycle to work when a guy in an uninsured car crossed into his lane and hit him head on. Long story short-my husband lived and now here we are a year and a half later. 

He was the only one working at the time, I quit my job months earlier to care for some family members dying of cancer. 

These seem like small things but these are the preps that made our life easier.....
1. We had no debt. The house was/is paid for and I have no doubt we would have lost it if it wasn't paid off. 

2. We had more than enough food to get by. Not just long term stuff but easy to eat/carry food also. The first few months I was either at the trama center or the rehab and I was just too tired to either cook or shop. I always carried food with me. 

3. The car was maintained and I was able to travel as I needed. It always had at least a half of tank of gas. 

4. Fully stocked first aid kit. There was/is stuff in there I never thought we would use but boy did we. Once he came home I was not allowed to leave for even five minutes and because we had everything I didn't have to leave. 

5. Winter had set in just as he was getting out of rehab. We had two years worth of cut and stacked firewood, without it we would have froze. Oil was just too expensive. 

6. Knowledge of stuff. Fill the car tires with air, make minor house repairs, replace a leaky faucet, use a chainsaw, unplug a toilet, replace the front stairs, clean the chimney......

7. If you can~have a good support system. That's a prep you never knew you needed until you need it. 

8. If you can have an emergency money stash put aside please do it. Anything is good. 

9. Take a course in first aid or something like that. I became a cna for the fun of it a few years ago never knowing how important it would be later in life. 

10. Take care of yourself. I couldn't have helped him if I was a mess. 

Anyway, sorry for rambling. Hope this helps. 

Paula~


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

bowdonkey said:


> I have no fears. I am totally self sufficient and self reliant. I have a huge harem of women who are devoted to me and never question my orders or desires. Life is good, no worries.


Yeah, I didn't list my 4th worst fear.....loss of my sense of humor.


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## claytonpiano (Feb 3, 2005)

Like Stars01, we have been through disasters. Living in a tiny trailer in our driveway after hurricane Fran for six months and no power for weeks after a hurricane in TX made a believer out of me to be ready and able to live off grid. 

Twice we have had to re-absorb children, spouse and grandchildren and live off our storage and land. It can be done, but it is hard without preparation and storage.....lots of storage.

Worse case...what TnAndy said plus the delivery of some sort of disease by a terrorist and watch it spread to friends and loved ones. Doing life alone after a disaster would be really hard....not so much because you can't figure out how to do things, but it is just so much better doing life with friends and family.

How have we prepared? We live fairly self-sufficient now. Best advice that I can share from our experiences is to live now as though a disaster has already happened. Get debt free and raise your food to the best of your ability. Stay in great physical shape and develop like minded friendships. Withdraw now from TV and electronics. Working hard and doing that consistently means you need extra calories and muscle. Develop that now.


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

hmmmmm - I live just a few miles from a nuclear reprocessing plant AND a nuclear power station AND a major shipping lane.

So for me biggest disasters would be one of the nuclear facilities having "problems" or a big chemical spill. Although to be fair - our tide runs pretty fast so I don't know how a chemical spill would realistically affect us.

My absolute worst nightmare is ANY scenario that kicked off and not being able to either get DD home or not be there with her.

We are fairly well off for preps at home (although not as well as I used to be and NEVER as well as I would like). Animals/garden - have to wait and see this year - last yera I didn't plant a garden and put all the animals on hold as far as production goes. Time will tell this year - new routines and all that.

One thing I have learned is not to shun the "instant food". I have to confess to being a bit of a food snob and always stored basics and long term food. More and more I am discovering that when I am REALLY tired, food becomes a non issue if I have to actually do somethign to prepare it. So now I keep some cans of ready to eat stuff so when life gets manic I still ahve something warm and wet inside me? And of course that busyness would be FAR worse if something bad did happen.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

bowdonkey said:


> I have no fears. I am totally self sufficient and self reliant. I have a huge harem of women who are devoted to me and never question my orders or desires. Life is good, no worries.


Impossible!!!


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

bowdonkey said:


> I have no fears. I am totally self sufficient and self reliant. I have a huge harem of women who are devoted to me and never question my orders or desires. Life is good, no worries.


I'm happy for you! Unfortunately, any comment beyond that would result in a quick divorce.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Darntootin said:


> Impossible!!!


LMAO! When you're as vigorous, virile, and potent (stole a phrase from the Gman) as I am, life is much easier and enjoyable.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Woolieface said:


> Being confined, restricted, imprisoned, or otherwise having my freedom to be a human being infringed on. Zombies are fine. I know the rules. Cardio....Doubletap.:thumb:


We just watched that last night.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

TnAndy said:


> #2. EMP or CME knocks out the power grid. All the nuke plants go on standby diesel generators and do an orderly, safe shut down.
> 
> However, their water storage pools for spent fuel rods, which have to be constantly refilled by electric pumps run by those diesel generators, are limited to a few weeks to a month by the amount of stored diesel fuel. Those generators begin to shut down from lack of fuel, the water is boiled off the fuel pools, the rods heat up, melt, exposing radioactive particles into the air. These spread for many miles with the wind. Much of the country downwind of these plants is contaminated for a LONG time. Fukishima X several dozen.
> 
> ...


This one puzzles me a little. I'm not necessarily doubting what you say is possible but it puzzles me that with enough heat to boil water off, wouldn't there be enough heat to either mechanically or electrically extract enough energy to keep the water where it needs to be in order to at least maintain? The answer may be "no", it's just something I wondered about. I have no personal or working knowledge of things nuclear so I may be showing my ignorance.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

TnAndy said:


> #2. EMP or CME knocks out the power grid. All the nuke plants go on standby diesel generators and do an orderly, safe shut down.
> 
> However, their water storage pools for spent fuel rods, which have to be constantly refilled by electric pumps run by those diesel generators, are limited to a few weeks to a month by the amount of stored diesel fuel. Those generators begin to shut down from lack of fuel, the water is boiled off the fuel pools, the rods heat up, melt, exposing radioactive particles into the air. These spread for many miles with the wind. Much of the country downwind of these plants is contaminated for a LONG time. Fukishima X several dozen.



Wouldn't putting a dome or something over that help? Catch the steam so it runs back down into the pool?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

terri9630 said:


> Wouldn't putting a dome or something over that help? Catch the steam so it runs back down into the pool?


Good question....very logical and simply ....so what facts do we not know.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Good example is Fukishema(sp).........

The water boiled off . . .and the dredded melt down 

Even tho they had the whole darn ocean right there to pump into it...........

So yes TnAndy's thoughts on the nuke potential is way more than SCARY.

The Nuke industry is well aware of Joe Public's basic unawareness of the Catastrophic potential for Disaster . . . . . . .They just play it as "Nothing will ever happen""
Look closely at Japan.......................


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

My biggest worry is losing DH. I'd go on without him and be okay, eventually, but losing him would put the biggest hole in my life. For me, everything else is just a blip on the radar.

I have a good friend that IS walking this road, 6 mos now. She and her kids are pulling it together......


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

terri9630 said:


> Wouldn't putting a dome or something over that help? Catch the steam so it runs back down into the pool?


Water will condenses on a surface best that is colder than the surrounding air temperature. I don't know exactly how to figure the thermodynamics of it, but my guess is it would take a huge amount of surface area for such a dome, especially during summer months. Also, as the temperature of the air inside rises, that air has more ability to hold moisture, reducing it's ability to condense out.

That interior temperature would also create a pressure rise, and at some point, you'd have to either vent the interior to the outside (loosing that super moisture laden air), or risk something "giving"......

And maybe those engineering problems could be solved....but the fact is, they aren't. They are depending on a constant supply of electricity to run pumps to keep the rods covered.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Can't recycle cooling water inside the dome, no place for the heat to escape fast enough. 

IMHO, the nuclear energy people have been criminally negligent in not providing MUCH safer back ups.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

I'd think there'd be some way to capture that water. If a dome isn't practical because of pressure then they could vent it into an adjoining room that is cooler. Use condenser coils or something. Or maybe "teeth" on the ceiling like the ones on a Dutch oven lid.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Bellyman said:


> This one puzzles me a little. I'm not necessarily doubting what you say is possible but it puzzles me that with enough heat to boil water off, wouldn't there be enough heat to either mechanically or electrically extract enough energy to keep the water where it needs to be in order to at least maintain? The answer may be "no", it's just something I wondered about. I have no personal or working knowledge of things nuclear so I may be showing my ignorance.


No, it's low grade heat. 

To create steam to run a turbine to turn a generator, you need really HIGH heat, which is what they get out of a "hot" nuclear pile....the reason they have spent fuel rods is the nuclear material has decayed to the point it won't produce ENOUGH heat to make commercial amounts of steam (otherwise, they wouldn't pull them out and replace), but they still make a fair amount of heat, and will for many, many, many years to come.

Too bad you can't set up a bunch of greenhouses next to the plant, and let the heated water heat the houses.....you'd still need pumps, but it would be a way to use that low grade heat for something.

Some nuclear plants are getting away from cooling pools, and putting the spent rods in concrete and steel 'casks'....but they are still having to store them on site....that's what the Yucca Mtn,Nevada storage facility was supposed to hold, but it never opened.......and I gather that method of storage is far more expensive, since they can't put many of them in a single container, or again, the heat builds to too much.

Map of the US with approximate locations of places storing nuclear waste, many of them in the form of spent rod pools. Given the prevailing winds blow from west to east, my guess is the best place to be should fuel rod pools go dry is that stretch of the Oregon coast, or Seattle, Washington area, or northern Maine. ( I don't know what Canada has though)


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## Wylie Kyote (Dec 1, 2009)

One thing I see hasn't been mentioned. If you are hit with a dirty bomb the EMP/CME will knock out all modern vehicles with electronic ignition. Our highways will become parking lots. A car from the mid 60's will run as it has no electric ignition. Russia has invented a vehicle/truck engine that will survive a EMP attack and will run on just about anything, obviously for just a contingency. 
During the war(s) in Eastern Europe, Law and Order was non existent, gangs took over the streets and the 2 main skills that kept some people alive were medical and gunsmithing. Other than food and clean water 2 items that were worth there weight in gold were cigarette lighters and toilet paper.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Thanks for the explanation, Andy. I guess I was thinking along the lines of the natural flow of water that can happen in some solar setups where the warmer water will rise and circulate naturally. It may not be anywhere near sufficient with nuclear waste heat issues but I don't really have a feel for the physics of it.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

The nuke's absolutely depend on the flow of coolant-----which means electric pumps and so on. If that flow is disrupted the heat will build up and we will have the monster problems of SUPER Steam . . . . 

Look at an old railroad steam engine venting steam......

There have been many many monster explosions from out of control steam plants.

Now add deadly radiation being spewed into the atmosphere with that venting steam.

Scary


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## hoddedloki (Nov 14, 2014)

Couple of things worry me.

1. Carrington event- This would shut down the electrical grid, and the grid would not be recoverable for at least 3-5 years, due to the time required to manufacture much of the grid management equipment, most of which does not have backups in existence, let alone in place. Add in that most electrical things plugged into an outlet would be fried by the current surges, and you have a world economy that is welly and truly wrecked. Couple the lack of electricity with the lack of food supplies in the cities, and you have almost instant chaos, especially as folks realize that there will not be power for at least 3 years, and that even when the power comes back, their old lives will not be recoverable.

2. Civil war- The US is looking an awful lot like it did in the 1830's, and I do not see any statesman of the same caliber as Clay or Calhoun. There is a distinct partisan divide, which to a large extent is mirrored by the geography; take a look at the by-county national map of election results, and you will see the split. Combine this with an ever expanding leviathan, and with the dependent class increasing faster than the producing class, and we have a demographic and political time bomb. There is a very real temptation for the populists/socialists to try to take what we have to buy themselves votes and power, and an equally strong desire on our part to keep what is ours from being taken. Add in the complication of roving partisans, and it could start looking more and more like Serbia in the nineties

3. Nuclear terrorist attack- If Iran gets the bomb, does anyone honestly believe that they would not slip a bomb to one of their state-supported terrorist groups for a little payback? And getting something into the continental US is not complicated. If Iran wanted to put the bomb in a shipping container, and ship it directly from Tehran through New York Harbor, there is a 95% chance the container would not even be opened, let alone thoroughly searched prior to being passed to its listed destination.

4. Biological attack- either state supported, terrorist attack based, or a lone wolf. As a molecular scientist, this is something that scares the hell out of my colleagues and myself. We used to sit around at conferences late at night and speculate on just how long until it was possible, but now it is just too sobering/frightening a thought for us to talk about openly. For example, the technology exists to recreate smallpox using commercially available methods, for under 30 grand, with a time frame of less than 6 months from start to finish. All it would take is an angry grad student who wants to get even with the world, and we would be headed into the long night before we even knew it. And to add to your concerns, ~16% of the 4 million graduate students in the US are muslim international students. Of those, the FBI estimated that about 1-5% have radical islamist ties. Lets do the math- multiply by 0.16, by 0.05, carry the one, and get....

Just a few thoughts that might help stave off Morpheus if you didn't want to fall asleep anytime soon.

Loki


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## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

My biggest fears:

1. The loss of my husband. It would be terrible. We are working on making our place as self sufficient as possible so if either of us weren't there the other would be able to continue, but without his support and just being there it would be really hard.

2. Economic collapse... to a point. We are very prepared, but not totally. We still need time. If economic collapse and ensuing difficulty in obtaining necessities were to happen before we are completely ready, we would be fine, but not totally prepared. 

3. Something that completely disrupts the ecosystem to a poing where we can't grow food. Whether it's a long drought, volcano, chemical spill, radiation, or something that impacted our ability to grow food, it would be hard to reestablish our garden and orchard so it could produce the amount of food we need to sustain ourselves and our family. Those things take time and if our land were polluted with something it might be downright impossible.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

No.3 is the only one I couldn't deal with. Well I have neighbors with years of food but not much for know how.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

MY biggest fears?
To find out that HT is owned by some heartless corporation with unethical practices.





JK


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

dang names are being removed...i am having a brain freeze and cant remember who started this thread....good grief...are half of threads going to have a numbered person as poster?....ugghhhh....

but i understand their decisions.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

For what it's worth, I'm still here...don't I count? :sob:

All kidding aside, read Muleman's post. This series of events it kind of like a mini SHTF, and we have sustained damage (missing/leaving members). How we go next will determine the outcome.

I plan on staying on and being a member and a mod for as long as possible, and hope to get the place rebuilt.

Time will tell.

Matt


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

oh i see whats going on....its just i cant remember who started this thread....who was it roadking?


oh yea you count....alot...but i was trying to remember and my CRS disease kicked in on me for who started this thread...do you remember?


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Oh, :facepalm: hadn't noticed the name change...and dang it, I can't remember either, it wasn't me.

Matt


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## willbuck1 (Apr 4, 2010)

EMP or really any incident that takes down the US but not the rest of the world. We will not be treated well.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Roadking said:


> Oh, :facepalm: hadn't noticed the name change...and dang it, I can't remember either, it wasn't me.
> 
> Matt


welcome to the way over 40 crowd...lol


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## bigjon (Oct 2, 2013)

my worst case has already happened-dw passed last September.but with the world in a handbasket-i'm more worried about getting my kids and grands here in time in shtf times.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Bellyman said:


> This one puzzles me a little. I'm not necessarily doubting what you say is possible but it puzzles me that with enough heat to boil water off, wouldn't there be enough heat to either mechanically or electrically extract enough energy to keep the water where it needs to be in order to at least maintain? The answer may be "no", it's just something I wondered about. I have no personal or working knowledge of things nuclear so I may be showing my ignorance.


As long as the operators can go cold iron on the reactor, that won't be a problem. The spent fuel pool is a different issue. When the cladding on the rods in the spent fuel pool deteriorated hydrogen was released which eventually ignited and destroyed the pole building like structure over the pool. Fukishima was the first GE design. 

After TMI the NRC required that igniters be added in addition to the existing hydrogen recombiners. The idea is that hydrogen will be burned off before it can build up to a dangerous level.

I'm not sure if Fukishima had igniters.


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