# Solar size for Southern Oregon



## SkizzlePig (May 14, 2006)

My wife and I are looking to buy and build a homestead in Southern Oregon ... between Eugene and Grants Pass somewhere. (We haven't found the property yet, just the region) We also want to build a grid-tie system of solar, hydro and maybe wind ... but not likely the latter.

Our current home has gas heat and plenty of electronic equipment going 24/7, we consume roughly 40kWh per day. On the homestead, I'd rather go with electric heat, because we would produce that ourselves. We'll need to add all the farm electrics to the total consumption like barn lights (no electric fences), water trough heaters, etc. I think the new homesteading total would be in the neighborhood of 60kWh a day. (I always like to over estimate) 

I'm not worried about the expense right now. I'm more interested in the "dream" system. Then we can scale back as our pocketbook dictates.

Based on that, how big of a solar system would you suggest we would need? As I indicated above, we would work to install hydro to offset Winter and Spring production downturns.

Thoughts?


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## ericjeeper (Feb 25, 2006)

Better have some serious deep pokets.. and I do mean deep.
Electric heat is out of the question. You realize how many solar panels, and how many batteries?
Solar Gary will surely jump in on this..
You need to do some research on this //


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## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

I agree with ericjeeper. Of course it depends on the size of the buildings to heat, how much insulation you have, whether or not you also have passive solar gain, etc., but I believe there are precious few applications where electric heat alone would be practical in that area.

Electric stock tank heaters are probably also out of the question unless you just want to have your gennie running all the time. We spent tens of thousands on our system and still do not use the electric stock tank heaters at 1500w each unless it is an EMERGENCY and even then we'd rather just take out buckets of hot water from our on-demand, oil-fired hot water heater - WAY less resources/money to heat those buckets that way than by electric.


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## Fire-Man (Apr 30, 2005)

Unlikely Farmer said:


> My wife and I are looking to buy and build a homestead in Southern Oregon ... between Eugene and Grants Pass somewhere. (We haven't found the property yet, just the region) We also want to build a grid-tie system of solar, hydro and maybe wind ... but not likely the latter.
> 
> Our current home has gas heat and plenty of electronic equipment going 24/7, we consume roughly 40kWh per day. On the homestead, I'd rather go with electric heat, because we would produce that ourselves. We'll need to add all the farm electrics to the total consumption like barn lights (no electric fences), water trough heaters, etc. I think the new homesteading total would be in the neighborhood of 60kWh a day. (I always like to over estimate)
> 
> ...


'It will cost ALOT to go just solar panels if you want to produce ALL you use. Just those 1500 watt stock tank water heaters---if run 10 hrs per day would cost you $12/15,000 in solar panels alone to run. My guess on your house---$50,000 to $100,000 in panels alone + charge controllers + racks + batteries + inverters + wiring +, + , +. Maybe $150/200,000------yea, maybe I am "High" but Solar is not Cheap. Now using a Generator some, using some of the on-grid power--you will save alot on panels. Good Luck!! Randy


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## SkizzlePig (May 14, 2006)

Uh ... er ... okay ... the pockets aren't NEARLY that deep. Maybe I could do without the trough heaters.  It doesn't freeze that much in that area anyway.

That said, if we strictly use 60kWh a day or less, how big of a system would we need? I've contacted a couple solar systems providers and they said we would need between 5 and 10kW systems. I wanted to check here, instead of just taking a salesperson's word for it.

Worst case scenario we can heat primarily with wood.

Thoughts?


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## Fire-Man (Apr 30, 2005)

Unlikely Farmer said:


> Uh ... er ... okay ... the pockets aren't NEARLY that deep. Maybe I could do without the trough heaters.  It doesn't freeze that much in that area anyway.
> 
> That said, if we strictly use 60kWh a day or less, how big of a system would we need? I've contacted a couple solar systems providers and they said we would need between 5 and 10kW systems. I wanted to check here, instead of just taking a salesperson's word for it.
> 
> ...



That is what I was figuring above-------------If you use 60,000 watts per day---it would take atleast 10,000 watts of panels----if the sun shines all day to produce this, at atleast $5 per watt, Atleast $50,000 for panels alone + Racks + Batteries + Voltage regulators + Inverters + Wire + , +, +. If you will install it------if not + Labor. Maybe I am Wrong--------But I bet I am not to far off. I would Feel if you didn't double this system to allow for cloudy days--you will drain the system alot. If you will cut WAY back on your Usage-----then you can cut Way Back on your system. Some type heat other than electricity would almost be a Must!! Good Luck!! Randy


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

I just figured the panels.. 4 hr. "Prime Time" charge period for 60kw.. 15kw.. @ $3.50/watt.. $52.5k.. Even at 10kw.. $35.0k.. 5kw.. $17.5k

I don't know about the conditions in that location but even with great charging weather, With 10kw of panel, You would need 6 hrs. of charge in a day. Then you have winter to contend with..

Edit.. Dang decimal points...hehe


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

You dont go offgrid without SERIOUSLY reducing power usage,it goes hand in hand. Every dollar spent on reducing power usage needs with efficient 'appliances' (so to speak) saves 3 dollars in system cost.And that was before the recent run up in panel prices.

What you are asking is out of the question unless you make SERIOUS money.

If you are a business and grid tied in Ca,with state and federal rebates and tax credits,its possible to get around 50% of system costs back.Makes a 50,000 dollar system a 25,000 dollar system,thats quite a deal.

BooBoo


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

You need to sit down and have a serious talk with a reputable installer.

NOT a "salesman" at some distance just pitching equipment.

Theres a big difference between the two.


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,

As others have said, you don't want to heat with PV. Use a combination of good insulation, passove solar, solar thermal heating panels, and gas or wood backup.

As a rule of thumb for heating, solar heating panels are about 5 times more efficient at about 1/5th the price -- so, about 25 times more cost effective than PV. Solar heating panels can have paybacks as low as one year. Some examples here:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/Space_Heating.htm
And some solar home design information here:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SolarHomes/solarhomes.htm

One way to get an idea of what a PV system would cost to generate your 60 KWH per day is to run PVWatts for your area. It will give you a good estimate:
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/calculators/PVWATTS/
I think Version 1 is easier to use. 
Then figure about $10 per peak watt for the system.
I think that after you see the number you will be stocking up on compact flourescents 

I'd have a read through the basics articles here:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/PV/pv.htm#Basics

It should be fairly easy to build a solar heated stock tank -- there is one here:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/WaterHeating/water_heating.htm#Animals


Gary


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## SkizzlePig (May 14, 2006)

You're spot on SolarGary - We already use high efficiency appliances and compact flourescents throughout the house. I think the high usage currently is due to the seven computers that run 24/7; that won't happen on the homestead. The homestead house will be ICF construction so heat loss should be minimal.

Reduction will be key, but I'm trying to anticipate the worse case scenario. We have a LOT of always on electronics here in the 'burbs, that wouldn't be on if we generated our own power. We'd reduce there, but I don't know what to expect from the electricity needed for the farming and ranching activities. Maybe none ... maybe a lot.

$50,000 in solar is less than what I had thought it would cost. Then we'd likely want to look to hydro to make up the Winter and Spring downturn in solar production.


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## justmyluk (Apr 28, 2005)

Grants Pass should have some pretty good wind speeds year round. You might think of puting up a hybrid wind/solar system. Wind generators per kwh are about a third (or less) the cost of solar. Might be worth looking into. Think about this... In the winter when the sun doesn't shine all that much, the old north wind should at least keep your system at a comfortable level. Your wind generators might even out perform your solar panels at about a third of the cost...or less.


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## idahodave (Jan 20, 2005)

I use about 60kw per month at my off grid place. Sure sounds like a lot of power for one day.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

if you are building a new home, i would seriously consider the design options to allow maximum usage of solar, geothermal, etc. solargary's site has many examples of efficient homes. i saw one home once that was passively heated and looked "doable". the air was allowed to circulate throughout the entire living area and basement via construction techniques that allowed air channels. being partially buried in the earth, in the summer the house was cooled via it's air flow. in the winter, the windows allowed passive solar heating that also circulated throughout the house.

i really liked solargary's solar shed project. if you build new, you can use floor heating that would work well with his project.

i don't know how supplimental wood heat would affect a thermal circulating home's circulation, but if you set that idea aside for a moment, heating with wood can be done via floor ducts that allow circulation of the wood heat. in another thread, i mentioned a friends log home that had an open "greatroom" design with an open loft on the second floor and a massive stone/masonry chimney in the center of the great room. it heated the entire house. the chimney was inside...something i would recommend. just imagine the energy you could save by not having to circulate air or water in the home for heating. you may compromise a bit of privacy in the bedrooms, but if you wish to go solar, you need to save energy somewhere.

the solar hot water project another posted of allowed for a storage tank in the home with a coil that also heated hot water. great idea.

you need a "shotgun" approach where you attack many targets. if you could do solar hot water and wood heat in a properly designed home, the solar electric is far more feasible.


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