# lost one of my queen's



## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

was in one of my hives a week & 1/2 ago. i had brood but couldnt see any eggs. with the weather being as it is i wasnt able to get back in til today. no eggs no brood. but i have a queen cell. should i get another queen or wait and see if the queen cell hatches out. its totally closed up, how long does it take for them to hatch? the hive seems to be real full so i dont think i had a swarm. any advice would be great.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Mare, sorry about the loss of your queen. It takes 16 days to make a queen, and probably close to a week for her to mate and start laying....so figure about 25 days total. 

Is the queen cell in the middle of the frame or down at the bottom? Middle means an emergency cell. The bottom would mean supercedure, or that they planned on replacing the queen. 

I'd give the cell a shot, but be ready to find another queen post haste. If the virgin flies out and gets eaten by a bird, you're in a bind then. 

If you have another hive, you could also give them some brood with day-old eggs if you can find them. 

It's up to you what you do with them.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

thanks Judy. i talked to another bee keeper that suggested combining the two hives by put newspaper between them. but it is so hot here and i am assuming i would have to plug all the holes on the boxes i move--i just dont know if that is wise. i will try what you suggested though.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Ya, if you lose the virgin, you'd be in danger of getting laying workers. BUT, the open brood phermones usually keeps that from happening, so I'd keep a close eye on the hive and watch for the queen. If you don't see eggs (one egg per cell and not on the side of the cell) then I'd start feeding a frame of brood to them until you either get a queen, or they raise another.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Wait about 30 days total to find eggs in the hive from the new queen. At this point leave the hive alone for at least 20 days as you do not want to chance damageing the cell. Becare full with a new queen also, some times when exposed to light they will fly or try to fly.
If after 30 days you do not see eggs or brood contact me VIA PM or E Mail and I let you know where to get a good queen over night at a fare price.

Combineing hives is what you do late in the season say late September early Oct. if you can not find a queen to buy. Or if you have a couple of weak hives. It isn't some thing you jump to do just because of the loss of a queen. Getting a laying worker hive is some what a problem but isn't the end of the world. If that happens also PM me or E Mail me.

 Al


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

thanks for the advice Judy and Al. i will pm you if i dont see eggs Al.


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

First, it does not take 16 days for a hive to make a queen. If you pull a queen, they will start prepping a 3 to a 5 day cell (egg-larvae) very soon afterwards for selection of making a queen. And I can guarantee you will have a queen hatch out much sooner than 16 days later. 

Second, if you wait 30 days to check for eggs, you better also be sure that a queen is actually being raised and you have a good chance of a queen actually taking over the hive.

Reason being...if you pull a queen out of a hive, the last of the eggs laid by that queen will hatch in about 21 days. (That being workers.) You then have about 10 days after that until the hive becomes a laying worker colony. So it's not just good enough to wait 30 days and look for eggs. You should make sure that a queen cell is present, that a queen cell has opened, etc., checking along the timeline of progress.

Just remember that two things inhibit a worker from developing her ovaries, the queen's pheromones, and worker brood pheromones. Remove these two pheromones from the hive, and laying workers will develope.

Don't sit back and wait to call someone after the fact. Make sure a queen cell is being made. And if not, or you have problems finding a queen once you decide you need one, transfer over a frame or two of brood once a week to guard against laying workers. You can actually keep a hive queenless (and not going laying worker) long periods of time with this method.

Good luck.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Bjorn, 

She has a queen cell closed up. That's all good advice, though. 

Mare, do you have a double-screened bottom board? I have some old ones that I use when combining in hot weather. Everyone seems to have gone the newspaper route, but I like that double screen for hot weather.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Queen production schedule:


Egg stage approx.72 hours (days 1 -3) approx. 
The Larvae 192 hours (days 4- 12) approx.
The Pupa 120 hours (days 12 - 16) approximately 384 hours 
Adult queen cutting her way out of the cell. *(day 16) approximately 384 hours *Adult Virgin Queen emerges * (day 16) *

*A queen lays an egg the development time from the time until the time a new queen will emerge is 16 days +/- a few hours*

sourses.
ABC XYZ of bee keeping, Bee keeping for dummies, the new complete guide to bee keeping and many other books.

internet sourses
http://www.beeclass.com/DTS/Appliedqueenrearing.htm

http://www.gobeekeeping.com/getting_started_with_queen_reari.htm


 Al


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

Not for practical purposes.

Whether you kill a queen, pull the queen from the hive, or place a frame of eggs and larvae into a queenless hive, it does not take 16 days for a queen to emerge. Your pointing out the time on a 16 day calendar, which does not apply to the conversation at hand.

I can guarantee you that no hive takes 16 days to make a queen and for her to emerge once you make the hive queenless. They already take or start with a several day old egg, or a one day larvae (day four on your calendar) and will make a queen and have her emerge in about 12 days.

Getting caught up in book details, is far different than actual field application and what will happen inside the hive.

Just as someone grafting, you start on Day 4 of a 16 day calendar. Actual experienced queen producers, pull their queens on day 9 or 10 after grafting. Because your already on day 13 or 14 in the queens development. No way do you wait 16 days. All your queen would be dead, except one.

You graft (just as a hive would start) with a 4 day egg (which is actually a one day larvae) and you count from there.

If you lose a queen, or make a hive queenless, you will see a queen much sooner than 16 days. I'll put money on it.

And it is incorrect to tell beekeepers that if they lose, kill, or pull a queen, that it takes 16 days for a queen to emerge. It does not.

Here is an actual calendar

http://www.nsqba.org/smallscalequeenrearing.html


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

well i was in the hives yesterday---the queenless hive is awful light--they must have swarmed on me. still alot of bees but no weight to the frames. i wonder if that is what they did that day the sky was full of bees. when they swarm do they stay together? i suppose they wouldnt fly to well in a clump though.


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## no1cowboy (May 2, 2004)

Yes, they are one big mass of bees when they swarm.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

http://www.thebeeyard.org/queencalendar.pl?month=6&day=1&year=2011


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

thanks Judy--very helpful
havent been able to get in the hives cuz of all the bad weather--hopefuly one of these days though


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Let's see...I was checking 5 of mine today. 

Opened one of my splits to see perfect eggs smack-dab in the middle of the cell. I didn't see the Sunkist queen, but she's sure doing a good job!

Checked on my cut-out hives. One had started building comb between the screen and the telescoping cover. I was removing screens anyway, and replacing inner covers. I even saw 3 or 4 brood cells, so the queen is laying. 

I still have drones here, so I'm happy to see that. I'm feeding cut-out honey back to the hives now, and will go to SW as soon as that's exhausted. 

Picked up a sheet of 2" polystyrene for hive covers today, but didn't get to it. Maybe when it rains...

We're supposed to get some rain toward the end of the week.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

[QUOTE=Judy in IN;5298472Picked up a sheet of 2" polystyrene for hive covers today, but didn't get to it. Maybe when it rains...

i am not sure what you mean by this. do you make your hive cover from this or are you putting this inside your covers? if so is it for insulating factor?


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Mare, 

I intend to put it on the outside of my hives, as insulation.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

ok you literally meant hive covers lol. is this how you have always done it or have you used tar paper? how do you plan on keeping it in place?


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Mare,

Well, at first I intended on using ratchet straps--2 per hive. But, upon reflection, I'm going to try heavy-duty baling twine and a tarp strap. That should keep the tension that I want.


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

reflecto duct tape...


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