# Virginia reporter and cam man shot on live tv



## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

This is terrible

http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/article_e7e6d035-1898-57ea-862e-9671384e75b9.html

from the article:
_Franklin County deputies are searching for a suspect after multiple shots were fired at Bridgewater Plaza in Moneta at Smith Mountain Lake Wednesday morning, according to a sheriff's office spokesman.
The shooting was broadcast live during television station WDBJ's morning show._

Since this came out, they have shown a screen grab from the camera man's recording that is a pretty good likeness of what looks like to be the man with a gun caught on camera. I think they're gonna catch this guy pretty quick.

Oh update, they have now identified the suspect as a disgruntled employee of the news station. Good heavens. What a whacko. The woman being interviewed was injured, but not killed.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

I hope he has a severe accident while being taken into custody!


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

And... here it comes... I knew it

talking to the governor, going over how the gun laws play a part in this tragedy. Who should be allowed to have guns, etc.

PEOPLE! THERE ARE NO LAWS THAT WILL TELL YOU WHO THE NUTS ARE THAT MIGHT ACT LIKE THIS GUY.
If there was a fortune teller feature on human beings, there would be all kinds of tragedy that could be avoided, but it's just not possible. 
Sooo tired of how these incidents turn into the what if discussion of how they got a gun.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Wow. Really sad story. It's terrible that it happened on live TV. I doubt there was even time to notify their kin before they heard it second hand or saw the video.

People who are going to shoot others are never going to stop carrying or using any weapon at their disposal to hurt others (gun or not). I don't stripping other people's rights to legally carry is any type of real solution.

I hope those people's loved ones are not alone to deal with this. Doesn't sound like these kids had kids. Prayed especially for any young siblings, cousins, etc of theirs. Terrible situation for yltheir young loved ones to deal with.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

This is just down the road from us. It's the talk of the town. Such a sad thing to happen.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

The perp has been on Twitter and Facebook all morning posting the video of him shooting the girl and cameraman. Facebook just took his account now but kept posting Facebook as well. Free Republic has a live link on the perp and what has happened this morning. Live Leak also has the video of the shooting that he posted.
The suspect is still on the loose.
This is another of his AKA names Bryce Williams. His Facebook and Twitter acct. were under this name. What a sicko!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3329314/posts


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

This will likely end with him dead. Either by police or himself. They say he is heading up 81 right to our town. I wish one of our good ol boys would run him off the road.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

CNN reporting

Perp sent 23-page fax to station. [Manifesto?]

He has ditched his car now and has shot himself.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Just reported he shot himself.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Oh gosh. This may be racial now. Former news station reporting that he was dismissed, and then made an EEOC claim related to discrimination or some such related to racial comments. It was investigated and nothing was found to substantiate claim.

And it seems he has filed racially related claims at multiple jobs after leaving.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

That's sad, they were just kids


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

He did not have a good track record in his jobs. He had worked in several cities, including WTOC in Savannah,Ga. I thought that he looked familiar. He had already sued another station in 2012 for racism, so it&#8217;s pretty obvious he&#8217;s had problems in the past. He is alive but critically wounded.


The cameraman that he shot this morning had gone to the tv station H.R. after working with him one time because of his behavior.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Interested to see what his 23 page fax said.this guy is messed up. Whatever his beef was, he could have killed them privately. That would have still been horrible. But, it floors me that not only would have choose to do it in n live TV, he would film it himself and put it up.

To me, that means he was trying to victimizing ze a lot more people than just the ones he shot.

Said a prayer for the lady in surgery. Said one for the shooter's lived ones too. He's so far off the rails. But, I imagine not all his loved ones are like him, and I feel badly for those that aren't, especially any young relatives.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

ABC said that they got a fax from him today too. He has 2 alias' so the police is now looking to see if he has more than one Social Security number.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

partndn said:


> This is terrible
> The woman being interviewed was injured, but not killed.


Wow, that's good news that she survived. I watched the video this morning and that was about as point blank range as one is going to get.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

In the 23-page document faxed to ABC News, the writer says &#8220;MY NAME IS BRYCE WILLIAMS&#8221; and his legal name is Vester Lee Flanagan II.&#8221; He writes what triggered today&#8217;s carnage was his reaction to the racism of the Charleston church shooting: 
&#8220;Why did I do it? I put down a deposit for a gun on 6/19/15. The Church shooting in Charleston happened on 6/17/15&#8230;&#8221; 
&#8220;What sent me over the top was the church shooting. And my hollow point bullets have the victims&#8217; initials on them."

_(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ..._
*
*_*--He says has suffered racial discrimination, sexual harassment and bullying at work --He says he has been attacked by black men and white females --He talks about how he was attacked for being a gay, black man* _


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It's made the news up here and it just horrible.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

It is just so bizarre that he would take a video of the shooting and to post it on Facebook and Twitter on his own sites. Then with the manifest too, he had to have spent a lot of time while premeditating all of this. Has anyone else ever done that before, put their murders on their Facebook and Twitter sites?


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

> Originally Posted by *partndn*
> _This is terrible_
> _The woman being interviewed was injured, but not killed._





Wayne02 said:


> Wow, that's good news that she survived. I watched the video this morning and that was about as point blank range as one is going to get.


All three of them are dead according to the news I just watched. 

The owner of the TV station where they worked announced that the reporter and the cameraman are both dead and they showed written responses from both the reporter's and the cameraman's fiances and other family members in response to the news of their deaths. Other reporters at the TV station were shown discussing it and crying.

The shooter is dead, he died en route to hospital and was pronounced DOA at the hospital.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

White House spokesperson goes straight to "gun violence" after the standard our thoughts and prayers statement.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Fennick said:


> All three of them are dead according to the news I just watched.
> 
> The owner of the TV station where they worked announced that the reporter and the cameraman are both dead and they showed written responses from both the reporter's and the cameraman's fiances and other family members in response to the news of their deaths. Other reporters at the TV station were shown discussing it and crying.
> 
> The shooter is dead, he died en route to hospital and was pronounced DOA at the hospital.


No, I'm referring to the lady being interviewed, the chamber of commerce rep. She was injured but expected to live, stable condition.

Sorry for the confusion.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Wayne02 said:


> Wow, that's good news that she survived. I watched the video this morning and that was about as point blank range as one is going to get.


Most people shot with handguns survive.
I believe it's about 80%


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

partndn said:


> No, *I'm referring to the lady being interviewed*, the chamber of commerce rep. She was injured but expected to live, stable condition.
> 
> Sorry for the confusion.


Sorry, my mistake. I didn't see any videos and I did think you were talking about the reporter doing the interviewing. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm glad the interviewee will be okay.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Fennick said:


> Sorry, my mistake. I didn't see any videos and I did think you were talking about the reporter doing the interviewing. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm glad the interviewee will be okay.


No worries. Honestly, I'm not sure if the chamber of comm lady was shot, or taken to hospital due to injuries she could have gotten while trying to take cover, falling, etc. a break or sprain and a lot of bruises could easily have happened.

It appears this guy had it out for the station employees. I wonder if he even tried shooting at the chamber rep.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

The lady was shot in the back, had emergency surgery, and is doing well.

The shooter had really planned this so that he could get as much attention as he possibly could. Everything fell into place for him til the license plate reader signaled that the car he was suspected to be driving had just passed. I have had my tv on ever since early this morning so I have been spellbound for hours. Horrible, horrible for this to happen to these young people.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gapeach said:


> It is just so bizarre that he would take a video of the shooting and to post it on Facebook and Twitter on his own sites. Then with the manifest too, he had to have spent a lot of time while premeditating all of this. Has anyone else ever done that before, put their murders on their Facebook and Twitter sites?


People have put manifestos on the web but nothing like this. I have a sick feeling it will be the beginning of a new trend though. :awh:


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> People have put manifestos on the web but nothing like this. I have a sick feeling it will be the beginning of a new trend though. :awh:


What is so different about this is that he was posting all of this after he did the shooting. Twitter took his site down first but Facebook left his site up for so long that so anyone could take screen shots of the murder video. All of this was so cold blooded.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> People have put manifestos on the web but nothing like this. I have a sick feeling it will be the beginning of a new trend though. :awh:


I think the only thing "new" about it is how fast the information got out, whereas in the past it generally took weeks.

The filming of the shooting was a new twist, but with the advent of "Go Pro" it may become more common

James Holmes wrote one that he mailed to his shrink.

The shooter at VA Tech had one 
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/18/vtech.shooting/index.html

Dylan Roof had one
http://news.yahoo.com/suspected-killer-dylann-roof-s-racist-manifesto-surfaces-154324556.html


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

The shooter today left some suicide notes too. It had been over 12 months since he was fired from the last job.

I think the news got out so quickly because the Gov of Va. went live and was telling what was going on.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> People have put manifestos on the web but nothing like this. I have a sick feeling it will be the beginning of a new trend though. :awh:


A man in Canada killed his wife and small children and sent photographs of the murdered family to their biological father and I found that horrifying but this is even more depraved.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

It is amazing he had time to post all of that to his FB and twitter accounts. It's also particularly sick and twisted. I think it will be motivational for other people looking to flame out famously.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> It is amazing he had time to post all of that to his FB and twitter accounts. It's also particularly sick and twisted. I think it will be motivational for other people looking to flame out famously.


I often think the media is a double edged sword. We certainly want to know what's going on in the world but by sharing every available detail they can find, leave a standard for the next nutball to try and beat.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Perhaps this was a "Hate Crime".


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

It's only a big news story because the victims were also news people. There are horrific crimes committed every day that never make the national news. The news sources ALWAYS focus more on such things when it happens to one of their own.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Again, Obama is doing his happy dance on the bodies and spouting more gun control crap.
What a pitiful; excuse for a leader.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

poppy said:


> It's only a big news story because the victims were also news people. There are horrific crimes committed every day that never make the national news. The news sources ALWAYS focus more on such things when it happens to one of their own.


I think what made this so sensational is that they were broadcasting LIVE when it happened. That might not have ever happened before.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Virginia Gov Mcauliffe was broadcasting live on Fox News this morning. I know this because I watched from early this am til this afternoon. He was not broadcasting live this afternoon but he was still updating them. I don't think I have ever seen this happen before either. 
I am so upset for these young professional journalists and cameraman and their families, loved ones. It was just horrible what happened and was apparently planned in advance for we don't know how long since the shooter was fired over a year ago.
However, VA Gov Terry Mcauliffe was out there this afternoon advocating and pushing gun control. Hillary Clinton also made a statement this afternoon about gun violence in Va today.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

MO_cows said:


> I think what made this so sensational is that they were broadcasting LIVE when it happened. That might not have ever happened before.


Yes, the man who shot them is a terrorist by my definition. He chose targets he had a weaklink to and made them pawns in his plot.

His anger was intended to unleash terror on a wide audience because he did thus on live TV, then put up his s own recording to reach an even broader audience than the local live viewers for that stations broadcast.

I don't have a very high opinion of most of the media. But, I my favorite uncle is a news anchor. I thanked God today that his kids are grown and that they're not so grown that he has grandchildren yet. Turns my stomach to think how the children of journalists must feel processing this tragedy. Those reporters weren't even doing what would be considered a dangerous remote broadcast. It was a fluff Bruce almighty report for Pete's sake.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

To shoot and kill two people on live TV is horrible then post it on the net is sick well he is dead also. Man what is this world coming to.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Just another crazy. This one happened to be another of Obama's sons gone astray. A black guy who has heard all his life from the left that he is a victim and nothing he does bad is his fault. Obama and people like Sharpton have promoted that concept by their speeches and actions.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

poppy said:


> Just another crazy. This one happened to be another of Obama's sons gone astray. A black guy who has heard all his life from the left that he is a victim and nothing he does bad is his fault. Obama and people like Sharpton have promoted that concept by their speeches and actions.



How'd I know you'd find a way to make this a black thing ?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

oneraddad said:


> How'd I know you'd find a way to make this a black thing ?


Well, it is hard to dismiss what the murder himself wrote.. why the act to squelch the facts as the murder expained and and want to get out. 

Oh..... it's not allowed by rule of pc values.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

oneraddad said:


> How'd I know you'd find a way to make this a black thing ?


The killer did that
It was his whole point


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

The odd thing is he praised people like the kids that murdered kids at Columbine. They weren't black. There is no doubt he saw his actions as a response to Roof.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

I am sorry for the loss of these two young people.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*After Shooting, Alleged Gunman Details Grievances in &#8216;Suicide Notes&#8217;*

Aug 26, 2015, 2:03 PM ET
By PIERRE THOMAS, JACK CLOHERTY, JACK DATE and MIKE LEVINE
via Good Morning America -video-

A man claiming to be Bryce Williams called ABC News over the last few weeks, saying he wanted to pitch a story and wanted to fax information. He never told ABC News what the story was. 
This morning, a fax was in the machine (time stamped 8:26 a.m.) almost two hours after the shooting. A little after 10 a.m., he called again, and introduced himself as Bryce, but also said his legal name was Vester Lee Flanagan, and that he shot two people this morning. While on the phone, he said authorities are &#8220;after me,&#8221; and &#8220;all over the place.&#8221; He hung up. ABC News contacted the authorities immediately and provided them with the fax. 
In the 23-page document faxed to ABC News, the writer says &#8220;MY NAME IS BRYCE WILLIAMS&#8221; and his legal name is Vester Lee Flanagan II. He writes what triggered today&#8217;s carnage was his reaction to the racism of the Charleston church shooting: 

Yes, it will sound like I am angry," he writes in his manifesto. "I am. And I have every right to be. But when I leave this Earth, the only emotion I want to feel is peace....&#8221; 
&#8220;The church shooting was the tipping point&#8230;*but my anger has been building steadily...I&#8217;ve been a human powder keg for a while&#8230;just waiting to go BOOM!!!!&#8221; *
He chronicles the "tough times" he's faced, including some "financial crashes." He says he used to work as a male escort but, "I am proud of it" because he "made thousands." 
"_ tried to pull myself up by the bootstraps," but, "The damage was already done and when someone gets to this point, there is nothing that can be said or done to change their sadness to happiness. It does not work that way. Meds? Nah. It's too much." 
"And then, after the unthinkable happened in Charleston, THAT WAS IT!!!" 
"Yeah I'm all CENSORED up in the head," he concedes.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-alleged-gunman-details-grievances-suicide-notes/story?id=33336339
He was right. He was an angry black gay man and completely messed up in the head. This was a hate crime just like the freak in Charleston.
Whose flag are we going to ban today?_


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

I watched his POV video. Disturbing but you cannot see anything graphic like wounds. The video cuts out not much longer after the broadcast footage cuts out. You just see the reporter running away screaming. It is clear he was waiting for the camera to come back around to her so he could execute her on air. He had his gun up, put it down and walked up on the interview and stood at an angle behind the camera man until he panned around to the reporter, and then he raised his gun and started shooting. 

Some people are just mental.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

He worked for our local TV station, WNCT, for a while several years ago, so I guess we were lucky he didn't snap sooner

The girl used to work for another station about 50 miles from here


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

He worked in Savannah at WTOC-TV for 2 years. The station manager said he will make no statement about him except to verify his employment.


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## FeralFemale (Apr 10, 2006)

I actually teared up this morning watching the news. We all have lost someone. Remember that feeling when you wake up the next morning? When for a moment you don't remember and everything is fine, then the horrible reality slowly comes back with the full weight of grief? I cried because I knew that's what their loved ones experienced this morning.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

I saw the female reporter's father on a quick spot this morning, stating his mission and determination to do something about whacko people getting guns.

I hope this doesn't sound cold. I truly feel for this man and his family. They are grieving still, and not in a state of mind (in my opinion) to be putting out their life dedication to activism. He said he plans to make this his daughter's legacy, etc. I don't know what he feels should be changed about the ability to own or access firearms.

I fear this father will be pimp'd out by anti gun nuts groups and their lawyers, his grief being used for grandstanding and media attention.

Now, I totally understand his passion to do something that might make him feel like her death in some way could make a difference for the future. I get that. But I have no idea how this country addresses this issue without taking rights away from those of us who are not crazy. I just feel if there was a solution, we would have found it by now. I don't think there is one, as it relates to our rights to have firearms.

Crazy nuts will do crazy things no matter what tools they have available. 

The gun itself should have no bearing in this story.

The emotional/mental state of the guy is the issue. In my opinion, his condition was fed by a culture that excuses too many and is in fear of offending with truth. Unless we get more information, it appears this guy was not great at his job, was difficult to interact with, but felt he was entitled to what he wanted anyway. 

I think today's culture has taught too many folks that they will never have to change.. that they should never have to evolve as a result of adversity, or they can do no wrong as long as they are doing what they want. That's just not real.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I think the only thing "new" about it is how fast the information got out, whereas in the past it generally took weeks...
> 
> The filming of the shooting was a new twist, but with the advent of "Go Pro" it may become more common


I suspect you may be correct. 

Social media provides a world wide, unedited, instant response platform for people to 'tell their story', good, bad, and horrific. Note: I'm not blaming technology/social media etc.

And the very recent Go-Pro/point-of-view video capability allows the person to tell their story from their own viewpoint, literally.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

partndn said:


> I saw the female reporter's father on a quick spot this morning, stating his mission and determination to do something about whacko people getting guns.
> 
> I hope this doesn't sound cold. I truly feel for this man and his family. They are grieving still, and not in a state of mind (in my opinion) to be putting out their life dedication to activism. He said he plans to make this his daughter's legacy, etc. I don't know what he feels should be changed about the ability to own or access firearms.
> 
> ...


There is a woman not far from me who lost her son in a car accident and MADD has turned her into their poster gal but because of their desire to deliver a strong message, she's literally left living in the worst day of her life every day.

It's an awful thing because she has sat every day at a huge roadside monument from sunrise to sunset 365 days a year for over 3 years now and it's to the point where it has destroyed her marriage and her relationship with her living child. I would think if MADD cared as much as they claim and wanted to help this woman, they'd arrange for some much needed counselling but she's not nearly as valuable to their organization if she's not in visible pain.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Partndn,

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. But, I actually think the solution to the gun violence is to have more people armed and carrying. So, trying to stifle who owns guns is wrong.

I do believe there are crazy, mentally ill and sometimes badly medicated people, and some of them are these types of shooters.

But, because so many shooting occur in labeled or assumed gun free zones, I don't think they're THAT crazy. They know they are unlikely to be immediately engaged with return fire, and they use that logic to plan their attacks.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

gibbsgirl said:


> Partndn,
> 
> I agree with a lot of what you're saying. But, I actually think the solution to the gun violence is to have more people armed and carrying. So, trying to stifle who owns guns is wrong.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you.
And in this particular case, I don't believe the guy was THAT crazy. Just like you say. 
I think he is more a product of the culture I was talking about.. unable to accept that he needed to change some behaviors, change the way he viewed criticism, etc.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

gapeach said:


> This was a hate crime just like the freak in Charleston.
> Whose flag are we going to ban today?


Sadly it's not gonna be a flag.. this is just another feather for the gun banning Nazi's such as Killary... 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/26/politics/virginia-shooting-presidential-candidates-reactions-2016/


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Just to add..
I don't want to stifle anyone's ability to have firearm protection. Hope it didn't sound that way.

It's that these cases always come to "mentally ill" or "imbalanced" people in an effort to find a way to make it sound like a reason for such awful behavior.
And then of course the public's questions of how to keep guns out of the hands of mentally unstable people.

All I know is that's a near impossible state of mind to identify or evaluate fairly or consistently. The mind is too complex for a set of guidelines for all.
What would the cut off point be? The gray area would be a mile wide, and we'd all end up defenseless.

How about we stop calling all these people some medical term to try to appease the public. SOMEtimes, they are just mean, arsehole, sumbiches, and should be called that. Not every time, but sometimes.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

partndn said:


> I totally agree with you.
> And in this particular case, I don't believe the guy was THAT crazy. Just like you say.
> I think he is more a product of the culture I was talking about.. unable to accept that he needed to change some behaviors, change the way he viewed criticism, etc.


One thing I think that's led to a lot of problems.

Too many people confuse accepting people's differences with embracingbpeople's differences.

I think it's better to carve your own niche out it life. Respect people's differences and don't force them into supporting your ways or beliefs or life choices. People can find good support with like minded people. And, I think it's easier to get along with unlikeminded people when you both just work together on stuff you can, and don't fixate on the stuff you don't agree on.

But, it seems like the media, society, etc says we should honor diversity, but doesn't mean it at all. It's actually just a constant (figurative) bloodbath about chasing down anyone who is opposite of the tallest, latest soapbox speaker's ideas.

Whether it's about parenting, education, politics, finance, marriage, etc etc etc. It's a stupid way if doing well things, I think, because it leads to divisiveness, and I find the other way leads to building unity.

I think there's a whole generation now being brought up with this mindset, and its creating people like this guy.

My wording may not be perfect in saying this. But, I really think a lot of kids are failing as adults because they begin life as a grownup disappointed that no one has carved out their place in life for them, or they find people trying to hold them back and tell them where they fit in. They don't seem to have the skills or whatever to just plow through and find their own way. Some seem very dissatisfied and a few really act out in awful ways. But, even the ones who don't seem very melancholic.

We need a big change in how we all see things and how we fit in together. Social media and interacting with technology more than other people is a part of the problem I think


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

partndn said:


> I think today's culture has taught too many folks that they will never have to change.. that they should never have to evolve as a result of adversity, or they can do no wrong as long as they are doing what they want. That's just not real.


Right on gibby. I follow you. And that's exactly what I was saying in the above portion of my post too.
We're raising people to live happily in a condition that is not real. Not real at all.

I like your statement about confusing acceptance and embracing. Reality is acceptance doesn't mean you will be awarded accolades or accommodations for your differences. Find some like minded people if you are looking for an embrace. Better yet.. figure out that sometimes the resistance to your differences just might be a sign that you need to grow and change in some way. That's just how the world is.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Limbaugh was talking about it earlier. Someone posted an article titled "Gay black man murders 2 whites. Media blames gun". Very accurate. If this had been a straight white guy murdering gays or blacks, the story would be presented quite differently. Racism and homophobia would would be the order of the day. However, they find it very difficult to blame a gay or black man, so they blame an inanimate object instead.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

There is no law that could be passed to keep this guy from a gun aside from totally banning. No mental health issues. This is a heart and lack of human life value problem in America. We can take life before it's had a chance to grow. When a celebrity kills themselves we praise them and call them hero's. We have put the value of life very low on the list of priorities of America. The number one movies and shows are those with the most violence and killing. America's society and the free for all liberal mentality had created this problem and mindset.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

poppy said:


> Limbaugh was talking about it earlier. Someone posted an article titled "Gay black man murders 2 whites. Media blames gun". Very accurate. If this had been a straight white guy murdering gays or blacks, the story would be presented quite differently. Racism and homophobia would would be the order of the day. However, they find it very difficult to blame a gay or black man, so they blame an inanimate object instead.


No surprise. When those people were killed in Charleston, they blamed a flag.


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

I am very utilitarian when it comes to guns. If you need one to hunt, then have one. If you carry lots of money for work, have one. If you are being stalked/harassed, have one. Most people outside cities like Chicago, Memphis, etc, who do not have a practical need for one, probably will never really need one. Hunt on public land on the first day of deer season in my area and get back to me about how well you think that firearms course works. In the mean time, I don't care how responsible you think you are, we are all humans and if you do not secure your guns in such a way that you would unlikely be able to access it to defend yourself, then you are more lucky than responsible if someone else lives in your house or visits it, especially children.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

I agree with what others have said.

People have been and are being taught the world should be perfect and if we all use the 'right words' when speaking, everything will be OK and everyone will love you.

I think children should be taught everyone in the real world is not going to love you, like you, treat your fairly, etc. and the real part of growing up is learning to deal with that.

One of my husband's favorite sayings is 'What you think of me, is none of my business.'

I don't think people should need a reason to own a gun. If we only had or did things for which we had a reason - a good reason - we wouldn't have 1/10 of the things we do.

It matters not to me if a person wants a gun to use as a doorstop, paperweight, wall decoration, or whatever, I think it is their right to own one. With some exceptions, such as mental issues. I do think, though, people with serious mental issues determined to do something, will find a way.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

As I read this I am listening to my wonderful neighbor shooting. He calls the day before and let's me know he doing his drills. As often he invites my boy.. for years he would call a ask to practise on my land. Never a problem he started last year building his shooting range.... his is now bigger than mine so he no longer needs to ask..darn it I have some bucket of field eggs.. I should have offered them to him.targets that are fun.

Maybe because we are so rural, and so many of us shoot our own meat, and we really deal with bears that guns are tools.

Here it is common to store guns at someone's house for many reasons.
From.
Snowbirds wanting to have them safe from meth heads.
To elderly turning them over to a neighbor when their health is failing.

They are not toys. It's not a game as such yes we have had a child die ten years ago but we do not really have a gun violence issue.

If the crook is armed and you are not the crook gets your goods and you report it to the cops... why... I think it's because we know just how powerful a gun is and accept that gun trumps being cool or tough.

That said. It's open carry here and it's not for shock value it's for many no different than putting on a pair of pants, and grabbing your wallet.

I once was scared of guns ... I was uneducated about them... learning about them and how they are a tool for a job no different than my butcher knife could be scary if I had not been exposed to mom breaking down whole chickens.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

I grew up with guns, leaning behind the door, hanging on the wall, etc. - not locked up - but it was a different time then.

Also, when my husband was a police officer, he didn't lock his gun up when he came home.

I had no fear of guns and still don't. I have fear of the people in this world today who have little or no respect for guns - and most especially for people.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

The mystique of guns is a major problem that is relatively new. 50 years ago, few would think anything about a teenager carrying a gun, or, a young child shooting. When I was in High School, we were allowed to have guns in our vehicles. 

I grew up with guns and had my first gun at age 12. I was taught, from a young age, what they could do. Gun safety used to be taught in public schools. Now, not so much. 

It is not PC to see guns as simple tools anymore. We must look on them as evil things that, at any moment, could rise up and kill us all.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*WDBJ slayings: Killer fired 17 rounds, identified with 9/11 attackers, police say*

By Ed Payne, Ralph Ellis and Ray Sanchez, CNN


*Identified with 9/11 attackers*

Vester Lee Flanagan fired 17 rounds from a Glock pistol in killing Parker, 24, and Ward, 27, and wounding the chamber of commerce official Parker was interviewing, the Franklin County Sheriff's Office said Friday in a press release.
Flanagan, 41, a disgruntled former station employee, identified "with individuals who have committed domestic acts of violence and mass murder, as well as the September 11, 2001 attacks on the U.S.," investigators said, based on writings he sent to ABC News and a search of his apartment.
Other details from the release: Investigators recovered two handguns, both Glocks, from the rental vehicle Flanagan crashed on I-66 in Fauquier County before killing himself. It appears he acted alone. There's no evidence to indicate his destination after the shooting. 
The killing, investigators said, was "well-planned and premeditated."
Clues were found inside the rental car, a Chevrolet Sonic. 
Inside the subcompact four-door sedan -- a far cry from his usual ride, a 2009 Ford Mustang -- police found a wig, a black hat, a shawl, sunglasses and a to-do list. Police also found three license plates. 
Flanagan arranged to rent the car weeks before the shooting.
more.....
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/28/us/virginia-shooting-wdbj-bryce-williams-parker-adams/index.html


Vester must have been festering for quite some time. The police think that he had been stalking these two victims.


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

I read somewhere that he had taken his pets and killed them per his manifesto. The guy was clearly off the deep end. I don't really have a basis for understanding what might be going through the minds of such people.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

After reading some on this happening, it concerned me that evidently some people, maybe a lot, knew he was kinda off kilter. It seems he had been let go from other jobs.

Just guessing, but it's possible the former employers didn't mention these problems if and when contacted as a reference for this man. Employers tend to not mention negative things because they can be sued and I'm just guessing that happened here.

What do do, I don't know.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I saw his Facebook page before it was taken down and he had several cats and was playing with them in some of his pictures. ooh, I hate to think of them being murdered too.


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

Trixie said:


> After reading some on this happening, it concerned me that evidently some people, maybe a lot, knew he was kinda off kilter. It seems he had been let go from other jobs.
> 
> Just guessing, but it's possible the former employers didn't mention these problems if and when contacted as a reference for this man. Employers tend to not mention negative things because they can be sued and I'm just guessing that happened here.
> 
> What do do, I don't know.


That was one of his complaints this time--apparently he had another job lined up in PA after WDBJ fired him and WDBJ supposedly contacted the station and got him unhired.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Declan said:


> That was one of his complaints this time--apparently he had another job lined up in PA after WDBJ fired him and WDBJ supposedly contacted the station and got him unhired.


That's good. 

I know when my husband was in management, the company refused to say why a person was fired - alcoholism on the job, sticky fingers, indecent behavior with female customers, etc.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I worked in Human Resources in a hospital, part of my job was checking references. If we were called, I was only allowed to give dates of employment and to be like a clam on questions about the person. When I called to check a potential employee's employment record, sometimes I did not even have to ask about them. The person on the line would just come right out with how bad that employee was.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

I know there are positives to social media. But, there certainly are many negatives.

I recall at times in the past, media and law enforcement have made statements after tragedies where they state they specifically do not want to name people or share manifesto papers because they want to deny the perpetrators the voice and audience they were seeking by their actions.

With the current and upcoming social media platforms, these perpetrators are finding their own n ways to broadcast their actions and propaganda. Daesh has been doing it for a long time, this guy did the same thing IMO. My only hope is that people who think of doing this type of stuff will see they are not getting the reactions from the public they hope for. 

Unfortunately, I think this vester guy did exactly what the guy who killed the church people in Charleston wanted. Said a prayer for their loved ones in Charleston. Those people were absolutely amazing with their response to the sc shooter. If only the media and the rest of the public could have followed their lead instead of fanning the flames of hysteria about racism and the Confederate flag.

My thoughts anyway.


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

gibbsgirl said:


> I know there are positives to social media. But, there certainly are many negatives.
> 
> I recall at times in the past, media and law enforcement have made statements after tragedies where they state they specifically do not want to name people or share manifesto papers because they want to deny the perpetrators the voice and audience they were seeking by their actions.
> 
> ...


Its a tradeoff for certain, but I think on balance social media is still a positive. What I hope to see out all the Net Neutrality stuff is for the government to impose some sort of standards and practices for some of these sites, especially video sites. If we can block access to American viewers from ISIS, I suspect these beheading videos will go away. It is part of their psychological warfare agenda.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

I think the vester guy is just an extreme example of what I see as wrong with social media. It's too invasive, and can suck away the days and hours. Time isn't replaceable, and online interactions is not a substitute for in person real-life interactions.

Especially in the younger generations, but even with older ones, I see regularly people with very poor motivation and very poor skills for what to do together or how to do things together in real life. Could be at work, school, store, neighborhood, library, visitors at home. It's all over. And, some of the social skills defecit behavior is the type that would have gotten kids ears boxed years ago.

A recent problem for us the last several years has been having visitors leave in a reasonable amount of time. It cracks me up that people worry about my kids living in a rural area and being homeschooled cause of socialization. We've had people managing problems that my husband has had to get involved with. Because some people have come over and I can't get them to leave! Seriously, after midnight on a weekday is not okay. 

But, I get the feeling they are somehow sociaaly starved. They come here and no one is on line or watching TV. Th kids are playing, frequently its not even an organized game. The adults are chatting on the porch, making food, etc. I like the people, but it's like they didn't know they were dying if thirst til they're here doing those normal things. Sometimes, I want to say, you could enjoy yourselves at home doing the same thing!

Losing basic life interactions with time lost online is a delicate balance, and I think a lot of us are failing, and its consequences aren't good. Not everyone become a murderer. But, many people I think are lost on some level, and many can't even realize "what" is missing.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Declan said:


> Its a tradeoff for certain, but I think on balance social media is still a positive. What I hope to see out all the Net Neutrality stuff is for the government to impose some sort of standards and practices for some of these sites, especially video sites. If we can block access to American viewers from ISIS, I suspect these beheading videos will go away. It is part of their psychological warfare agenda.


Some good ideas, and not to be argumentative, but government's imposing 'standards and practices' seems like a two edged sword. It can be 'interpreted' and used against a free people.


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

Trixie said:


> Some good ideas, and not to be argumentative, but government's imposing 'standards and practices' seems like a two edged sword. It can be 'interpreted' and used against a free people.


Sure but "No beheadings" is a pretty straight-forward rule with no wiggle room LOL. I understand your position, but just the likelihood that the government was about to take action if these sites didn't would cause them to moderate themselves better I think (or would hope).


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Declan said:


> Sure but "No beheadings" is a pretty straight-forward rule with no wiggle room LOL. I understand your position, but just the likelihood that the government was about to take action if these sites didn't would cause them to moderate themselves better I think (or would hope).


OK, I don't really get the difference between the government deciding they should moderate themselves better and deciding on standards and practices.

I don't do Facebook, and I don't want to look at beheadings, but where would a government stop who was in charge of the standards are demanding moderators do better.

When would they decide criticizing the President or any governmental action be decided to be wrong. Think it can't happen?

Not to be argumentative - just thinking out loud -


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

Trixie said:


> OK, I don't really get the difference between the government deciding they should moderate themselves better and deciding on standards and practices.
> 
> I don't do Facebook, and I don't want to look at beheadings, but where would a government stop who was in charge of the standards are demanding moderators do better.
> 
> ...


The SCOTUS almost always comes down on the side of free speech. The government would have to be able to demonstrate a compelling reason to pass muster. No criticism of the president would never pass muster.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> People have put manifestos on the web but nothing like this. I have a sick feeling it will be the beginning of a new trend though. :awh:


Its scarey isn't it. 
The "BLM" is more powerful than we thought. As well as Farrakhan, Sharpton, etc.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

edcopp said:


> Perhaps this was a "Hate Crime".


I doubt it. Was a gay black man shooting white folks that he hated. So, I doubt it...


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Tricky Grama said:


> I doubt it. Was a gay black man shooting white folks that he hated. So, I doubt it...


Profound......should be POTD.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

FeralFemale said:


> I actually teared up this morning watching the news. We all have lost someone. Remember that feeling when you wake up the next morning? When for a moment you don't remember and everything is fine, then the horrible reality slowly comes back with the full weight of grief? I cried because I knew that's what their loved ones experienced this morning.


Post of the week award.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Trixie said:


> After reading some on this happening, it concerned me that evidently some people, maybe a lot, knew he was kinda off kilter. It seems he had been let go from other jobs.
> 
> Just guessing, but it's possible the former employers didn't mention these problems if and when contacted as a reference for this man. Employers tend to not mention negative things because they can be sued and I'm just guessing that happened here.
> 
> What do do, I don't know.


Heard interviews w/folks who knew him, co-workers too. All said the same-he was "OFF". But they ALSO said they never thought this would be what he would do.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

gapeach said:


> I worked in Human Resources in a hospital, part of my job was checking references. If we were called, I was only allowed to give dates of employment and to be like a clam on questions about the person. When I called to check a potential employee's employment record, sometimes I did not even have to ask about them. The person on the line would just come right out with how bad that employee was.


When I had that responsibility, I never called references. I usually knew someone in the business or a friend of a friend I could contact to get the truth without going through HR.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Darren said:


> When I had that responsibility, I never called references. I usually knew someone in the business or a friend of a friend I could contact to get the truth without going through HR.



All it takes is to have one person with a vendetta against a former employee and so unfair to the applicant to get a bad reference.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Declan said:


> The SCOTUS almost always comes down on the side of free speech. The government would have to be able to demonstrate a compelling reason to pass muster. No criticism of the president would never pass muster.


And you are sure of that? Boy, I'm not. 

Just the threat of government action sometimes, and all too often, is enough to curtail freedoms.

We have already offered up too many of our freedoms in the name of 'keeping us safe/healthy/happy.' 

The thought of freely giving the government any more powers truly gives me chills.


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

Trixie said:


> And you are sure of that? Boy, I'm not.
> 
> Just the threat of government action sometimes, and all too often, is enough to curtail freedoms.
> 
> ...


You give up more of your freedom being on the internet than you ever will lose to the government.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Declan said:


> You give up more of your freedom being on the internet than you ever will lose to the government.


Sorry, you will have to explain that to me.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Trixie said:


> After reading some on this happening, it concerned me that evidently some people, maybe a lot, knew he was kinda off kilter. It seems he had been let go from other jobs.
> 
> Just guessing, but it's possible the former employers didn't mention these problems if and when contacted as a reference for this man. Employers tend to not mention negative things because they can be sued and I'm just guessing that happened here.
> 
> What do do, I don't know.


 If contacted by prospective employers of folks we terminated we were prohibited from making negative remarks of former employees and could only confirm that they had worked for our company and if asked if they were eligible for rehire with us could only go as negative as saying that was a question that the employee in question would have to pose to the H.R. department if they chose to apply to be rehired, regardless of what the employee had done to get terminated.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

gapeach said:


> All it takes is to have one person with a vendetta against a former employee and so unfair to the applicant to get a bad reference.


That is true. In my field there were not a large number of individuals working. You could get a good feel for the person by talking not only to supervisors but people who had also worked with them on several projects. If the issues came up every where they worked it was obvious that there was a problem.

As an example one individual left an assignment without giving notice. The manager who I worked for afterwards was not happy about that. After talking to a supervisor at another company the stories of his work matched. Initially his work was acceptable only to deteriorate over time. 

Years later I received his resume. You can guess the result.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HR is often by confidentiality so they are legally unable to offer up too much information and in the case of a person who has been fired and has sued, the last employer may be further bound by confidentiality by way of pending legal action.

I find I can get a very good feel for a potential employee with a quick phone interview and the personality type of this man usually prefers to share more information than they should. 

I interviewed one of these recently (who's email tells me he's god) indicated that he left the last 2 places on bad terms and then proceeded to tell me what jerks both companies were. Singled him out for punishment he didn't deserve, managers picked on him for no reason, companies had no clear leadership and leadership in place was incompetent. 

No need for any follow up calls on this one because I've worked for the company he just crapped on and they haven't been in business for 30 years because they're incompetent and I kinda figure if god is going to slander his last company, he'll do the same to mine so I declined his 6 insistent emails letting me know that I HAD to hire him, or else.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*EXCLUSIVE: Virginia killer Vester Lee Flanagan wrote letters to rant about lack of sex and his days as gay escort*

BY NANCY DILLON , STEPHEN REX BROWN 
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Monday, August 31, 2015








**** ARNAL​*Psychopath Vester Lee Flanagan sent photos of himself along with letters to his pal Robert Avent.*


Vester Lee Flanagan lamented shortly before gunning down two journalists on live TV that his glory days as a $2,000-a-night male escort were behind him, stunning new documents reveal.
The typed and handwritten letters, as well as photographs, driver&#8217;s licenses and student IDs, were shown to the Daily News by one of Flanagan&#8217;s close friends, Robert Avent, who says he spoke to the calm and collected killer moments before he committed suicide as cops closed in on him last Wednesday.
much more........
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...killer-wrote-notes-sex-life-article-1.2342431
I sounds like he was eaten up with self obsession and bitterness against the world.


The notes provide a new window into the megalomaniacal madman&#8217;s mental state as he made the decision to exact revenge for an unsuccessful career filled with perceived racial slights


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Giving him all this attention is exactly what he wanted, and is also the reason for copy-cats


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