# Hybrid Vigor in Rabbits



## Mosherd1 (Nov 12, 2011)

I was speaking with someone who has been raising rabbits since the 50's. He said that many people think that by crossing a Cali to a NZ that a better meat rabbit will result. He said that hybrid vigor does not occur in rabbits like other animals. He did not say why. He said that there is no rabbit that is better for meat than a NZW since it had been selected for meat over the lifetime of the breed. Any personal thoughts, experiences, or opinions on this statement? Thanks,


----------



## brandkelz (Apr 15, 2011)

There were other breeds of rabbits that were specifically designed for meat purposes. The history of Cals, Chinchillas, Siver Fox, in fact alot of the larger breed show that they were originally intended for meat purposes. The fact that he didnt mention to you as to why hybrid vigor doesnt exist in rabbits is odd. There has been scientific research comparing pure breed NZW and Cal to crosses showing the difference in dress out weights. To me, that would explain that there is hybrid vigor that goes on in rabbits.


----------



## jandersen (Jul 11, 2011)

I can tell you that my nzw/rex kits are growing very nicely. They are noticeably bigger every time I see them. I had a litter of Californians they didn't grow out nearly this well. The rex doe is only 6.5 lbs and my nzw buck enormous.


----------



## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

Hybrid vigor in rabbits is a bit different. 

I think most people get it by introducing non-related stock. So many "breeds" of rabbits are very inbred, but with rabbits it does not have the problems in many other domestic species. Rabbits don't seem to have as many nasty recessive genes that some other breeds have. 

I've been playing with my meat rabbits, started out with NZW, Satin and Rex (all meat types). The NZW were the easiest to skin, they are bred to be thin-skinned. Sort of like buying a type of chicken that has been bred to have less feathers. 

My NZW came from a closed breeder, so I don't know for sure how related they were. Very dependable in growth, size of offspring and average litter size.

However when I crossed the Rex and Satin on the NZW, I got larger offspring, however the rex cross grew slower to butcher size. Those I saved for breeding stock ended up larger than the parents. Now that I am crossing second generation, I'm getting mixed results, even in the same litter. That is a big issue with hybrid cross, you start saving offspring as breeding stock and you can loose all consistency.

If you want to take advantage of true hybrid vigor, you'd need three herds, one to keep the purebreds going for the breeding stock, and one for the hybrid cross. Rabbits don't last that long, and not being able to grow your own replacements can be an issue.


----------



## scpankow (Mar 31, 2011)

Mosherd1 said:


> I was speaking with someone who has been raising rabbits since the 50's. He said that many people think that by crossing a Cali to a NZ that a better meat rabbit will result. He said that hybrid vigor does not occur in rabbits like other animals. He did not say why. He said that there is no rabbit that is better for meat than a NZW since it had been selected for meat over the lifetime of the breed. Any personal thoughts, experiences, or opinions on this statement? Thanks,


I would like to know what he bases his opinion on...there is some very credible research, done by the Texas A&M Rabbit Research program on this subject. Here are some links...

This is the Rabbit Reseach Program:
http://users.tamuk.edu/kfsdl00/rabb.html

This is an article about using Altex for getting hybrid vigor:
http://users.tamuk.edu/kfsdl00/altex-article.html

Hope this helps!


----------



## brandkelz (Apr 15, 2011)

I was getting ready to bring up the Altex sire research pankow, I just couldnt think of what they had called it...


----------



## Pat Lamar (Jun 19, 2002)

Obviously, the old-timer didn't keep up with research on the matter of hybrid vigor. Also, in addition to hybrid vigor, the main purpose for crossing NZW with Californians was literally a "shortcut" for better hindquarters on the offspring. Too many NZW's are lacking fullness in the hindquarters, but the Californians excel in that area. Crossing the two made a pretty ideal meat rabbit without the lengthy process of breeding and culling for that aspect within the purebred NZW's.

Pat Lamar


----------



## Mosherd1 (Nov 12, 2011)

Good to know, it could just be, as you mentioned, that he has not kept up with the research. Thanks so much I appreciate everyone's insights!


----------



## Mosherd1 (Nov 12, 2011)

Along these same lines, would you guys recommend me purchasing a Cali buck and NZ does if my only purpose is meat production? I am only looking at 1 buck and 2 does. Just wondering if it is a significant enough difference for such a small hobby.


----------



## Twist86 (Jun 13, 2011)

That is what was recommended to me, the downside is my cali buck died this summer and can't find another ~_~


----------



## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Well that's not what I am finding, I am getting good results crossing and find the hybryds to be better mothers and the 3/4 daughters to be stocky and larger. Just like any other breeding program you have to select for size, health and mothering.
i am just at the point where my 3/4 doe will be birthing my first 7/8 litter and so far I am while not getting the first cross hybryd vigor I am still doing better than my original stock.

I am doing 2 lines. bred the first cal/nzw doe to a cal buck (line bred still) then took the same doe and bred her to a NZW buck. (Not line bred as I lost my NZW buck).. The original Cal had bottle necked because of the original breeders line breeding and produced only 3-4 kits.I kept 3 does from my original cross and raised them. One doe was worse than her mother, one had 6 per litter, and one had 8 per litter. She will will be the grand dam of the new lines. i figure the NZW bucks line must have been producing 8 and this quality came from him. 

I have kept breeding the one that raises 6 for meat producing, but she will go into the freezer next month.


----------



## scpankow (Mar 31, 2011)

SquashNut said:


> Well that's not what I am finding, I am getting good results crossing and find the hybryds to be better mothers and the 3/4 daughters to be stocky and larger. Just like any other breeding program you have to select for size, health and mothering.
> i am just at the point where my 3/4 doe will be birthing my first 7/8 litter and so far I am while not getting the first cross hybryd vigor I am still doing better than my original stock.


What works even better is to take that cali/nzw cross and breed it with a third breed...


----------



## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

scpankow said:


> What works even better is to take that cali/nzw cross and breed it with a third breed...


Yes, I found the Cal does bred to a Champ buck either missed or had trouble birthing. But the cali/nzw does bred to my champ grew like crazy.
So did the NZW/champ crosses.
I have a litter of Cal/ Champ kits in the box. Cal buck on this litter. Not sure if I will go farther with this line as i don't have room now for the experiments I am doing.
i know this is the first year I have put enough meat in the freezer since i have had rabbits. And I credit our cross breeding program for that.
I have found my customers like the crosses better for meat stock breeders, so I have sold more this year too.


----------



## klickitat (Dec 26, 2008)

I met a breeder who was telling me about another breeder. I have not met him yet. 

Anyhow the story goes that he is (A) crossing Cali buck to an AmChin doe. (B) Taking an AmChin buck and crossing it with a NZ doe. Then crosses bucks from litter (A) with does from litter (B). 
The _claim_ is that he is getting 5# friers at 8 weeks. With excellent meat to bone ratios. I am hoping to meet this gentleman here shortly and go see his operation. I guess he does this strictly for fun and is not a commercial grower. If anyone is interested I will post up after I get a chance to talk with him.


----------



## joshuab (Jan 30, 2012)

It seems rabbits have an advantage over many breeds of animals. The ability to keep a pure NZ and pure CA for reproducing and using the crossed offspring for dinner is great. In dairy cattle the first cross (F1) usually shows the best hybrid vigor and the F2 and F3's lose the advantages. Could this be the same in rabbits?
I've heard a three way cross is a better way to maintain vigor but I have no experience with 3-ways;P

Joshuab


----------

