# Better for freezer beef or cow calf producer?



## spurs (Jun 13, 2016)

Ok, I know that opinions will be very wide on this but I am looking for different views on selling direct to customers as halves or wholes, or selling as live weaned steers by either direct to other farmers or sale barn.

I am looking at crossing Gelbvieh or Galloway cows with Lowline angus bulls, and raising 50% Lowline or lower as we move on to future generations of the cattle. I feel that this cross will give optimum ease of calving, utilize our pastures for rotational grazing while trying to not have to feed grain (although I will give mineral and protein as needed). And this cross should also (as long as I selected the best cow and bigger lowline bulls) sell nicely without losing money for size at the sale barn. 

I am also 40 minutes outside a big metropolitan area in the south, so I feel that I might have a market for selling farm raised grass fed beef.

I am weighing my options and would appreciate any opinions out there. I have seriously considered both options, or even a combo of both once I built my herd big enough, selling some live steers as well as a few sides of beef if I am able to.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

You have laid out a plan with lots of twists and turns in it that make any real suggestion impossible. You&#8217;d need a cross section of people that have done what you propose to do and then have them weigh in on their success or failures.
Just like eating an elephant, we need to do this a bite at a time.
Selling grass fed beef to upscale customers in halves or wholes. First, does the law in your state allow you to sell meat? In my state that is illegal. However, I can sell a steer to two, three or four people and haul their steer to butcher. See the difference. Are there people in that metro area with big freezers? 
Ever eaten grass fed beef? IMHO, lots more people like the idea more than the product. Do you have access to enough pasture to insure it stays lush and highly palatable year around? Few people are able to insure this requirement. Slow growth equates to tough.
Are you willing to be truthful, yet misleading, to market your beef? &#8220;Pasture Raised&#8221; can be grain finished. &#8220;Grass Fed&#8221; can still be true if steers are fed grass with their grain. There are lots of terms that retailers use that make the consumers think they are getting something special, when it isn&#8217;t. Would you add grain to your ration, if you found it gave customers a better flavored, more eatable product that increased sales?
I doubt there is any market for undersized calves from an odd crossing, either to a farm or through an auction.
You&#8217;ll be feeding full sized cows, at first, to get undersized calves. As you increase the Lowline blood, you continue to feed larger cows to get smaller calves. There are better ways to insure calving ease.
I do not know where you got the thought that grain is bad or that one breed can thrive on lower protein ration over another.
This is a job for a marketer, a salesman. If you can make believers out of people, get them off their wallets, cause them to believe your beef is tastier and healthier, you have options.
If I were you, offer to buy calves from an area dairy, if the owner will use an Angus bull. Set it up where you are buying new calves in April. Sell some in the fall, finish the rest, feed corn for 8 weeks prior to butcher. Find 4, 6, 8 people to buy the steer and haul it to the butcher.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

Buyers at the sales barn want a certain type of animal. They do not pay well for funky crosses or small animals no matter how many buzz words you put in front of them like grass fed or farm raised.
I'm with Haypoint on this, check your local laws on selling to private parties and market what you have for freezer beef.


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## Waiting Falcon (Nov 25, 2010)

I have a friend that sells grass fed to a large nearby city. They have had to increase their production. They started with hogs, and then sheep, I think they are also selling Jersey meat. As far as I know they have standing orders.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Waiting Falcon said:


> I have a friend that sells grass fed to a large nearby city. They have had to increase their production. They started with hogs, and then sheep, I think they are also selling Jersey meat. As far as I know they have standing orders.


Cool! Is that grass fed beef without any grain at all? All cattle are grass fed, just some don't get anything else except grass. What is there increased production bring them up to? On how many acres? What is the price that gets them a waiting list? Be great if you could get the facts/details about their operation.

From my limited survey, there are those that think it is dry, tough and tastes gamey and those that love the tenderness, health benefits and flavor. Often, one group has actually tried it and the other read about it on the internet.


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## ycanchu2 (Oct 21, 2011)

Might reconsider the Gelbvieh. A friend told me they were very tough.....crossing them with something else may help.
In a grassfed mkt you want something as naturally tender as possible.


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## Waiting Falcon (Nov 25, 2010)

I do not know prices but I know it is grass only on the Jerseys. The hogs ...I think they are now raising reg. Hereford hogs raised on Jersey milk.. They have Boer goats, plus dairy goats and dorpers.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Waiting Falcon said:


> I do not know prices but I know it is grass only on the Jerseys. The hogs ...I think they are now raising reg. Hereford hogs raised on Jersey milk.. They have Boer goats, plus dairy goats and dorpers.


Be careful making broad statements. People might read that and take it as an instruction manual for proper animal husbandry.

Sometimes, raising hogs with hog feed, excess milk and a bit of pasture grass gets all mixed up and the next thing you know, someone gets the idea they can grow hogs on milk alone or pasture alone. Raised with milk sometimes gets mistaken for raised on only milk.

But you know for sure they are selling Jerseys raised with grass alone, for butcher to waiting customers? 

The public wants to make healthy, humane choices and some marketers exploit that because most folks don't know what it means. Toss around a few true, but misleading, statements and you'll draw the unknowing. I could plant grain, turnips, mangles in a pasture, feed bakery scraps, boiled grade B eggs, the mash left over from a brewery and bushels of cracked corn for my pigs and tell people, "Pasture raised without commercial hog feed."

I could keep my cattle on pasture and baled hay until they are a thousand pounds, put them in a feed lot for 6 weeks on just corn and soy right up to slaughter and advertise it as pasture raised, because that is where they were raised. Finished on corn is so common, didn't think to mention it.


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## Empire (Jan 7, 2016)

Not many around here buy " grass fed beef". It's all grass fed, no matter where it is raised. They aren't being raised on big macs and French fries. The "grass fed" beef thing is a gimmick to sell to unknowing city dwellers. There are hundreds of people around here, within an hour of a major city, that raise beef and have quarters and halves for sale at a really high asking price. Then there are auction barns that sell for what I would consider an actual.reflection of the market price. Big difference in the two. I will say that Angus or Angus influenced cattle are selling for 20 to 30 cents a pound higher than non Angus influenced cattle. 
Dairy steers sell cheaper because they don't fill out like a beef breed. Jersey and Holstein seem to be the two main dairy crosses seen around here. Angus and Hereford are the main beef breeds. Angus and Hereford sell higher than the dairy breeds.
If you are looking to make money, raise Angus or Angus influenced. Everyone knows that the Angus producers have marketed Angus beef as the best out there. The work is already done for you, all you have to do is say Angus beef.
I personally raise Hereford and Angus.


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## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

My neighbor rased a grass feed steer asked him how it came out he said he had almost 600lbs of almost un eatable meat. Here stockers go for a insane price 4:50 a pound depending on time of year and drought.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

http://www.napoleontack.com/marketrpt.htm

These are typical prices. If you sell cattle ready for slaughter, these are the prices you can expect. Add your salesmanship skills to that price. Prices are per hundred pounds. If it is a 500 pounder, multiply the price by 5.

Not a big difference per pound between week old calves and butcher cattle. Not a big difference between dairy cattle and beef cattle for slaughter.


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## Empire (Jan 7, 2016)

Our prices differ a little here, and our beef cattle sell for about 50 cents more per pound for feeders, but finished beef they only sell for about 15 cents more per pound. Still a big difference when talking about a 1300 pound steer


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## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

mustangglp said:


> My neighbor rased a grass feed steer asked him how it came out he said he had almost 600lbs of almost un eatable meat. Here stockers go for a insane price 4:50 a pound depending on time of year and drought.


Just checked the local market report and stockers are almost half what they were last time I went now 185 to 235 with the drought.


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## spurs (Jun 13, 2016)

The law does allow for selling sides of beef in my state but not individual cuts. The reason I'm looking at crossing Gelbvieh with the Lowline angus (I'd select larger Lowline)is to still have decent size. If I took to the sale barn, I'd just put as angus Gelbvieh cross, since Lowline are actually angus. 

I have approx 110 acres of pasture that is not doing anything right now. It's has fescue and Bermuda. I want to start my herd out small (with 2 or 3 head) and grow it by keeping the heifers and selling the steers. I want to do it this way to stay out of debt. I could afford to pay for a couple head. Having everything paid for is important to me


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## Empire (Jan 7, 2016)

Why not run Angus if you want large low lines. Cross does that make much sense to have a cross the same size as a standard angus.


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## spurs (Jun 13, 2016)

well from what I'm thinking, crossing with the Lowline would help on the grass feeding as well as with the calving ease. And from what I've read, crossing brings better market than just straight breeding, no matter the breed. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## spurs (Jun 13, 2016)

And if I crossed Gelbvieh and Lowline angus, isn't that what balancer is?


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## spurs (Jun 13, 2016)

I know balancer is normally not with Lowline but since Lowline are pure angus


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Since you can get pure Angus that are bred for calving ease, I wonder why you want to breed small cattle? I thought Lowline was the cattle equivalent to mini-horses? 
I doubt a noticeable difference in gain on pasture over any other breed.

I've never seen cross bred cattle bring any more money. In fact, the farther you get from standard, common breeds, like Angus, Hereford, Charlois, the small the interest.

Stay out of debt? The best way to do that is to rent your pasture to some beef farmer. Raising cattle puts your investment at risk every day.


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## spurs (Jun 13, 2016)

If you are better off staying straight pure breeds, what is all the hybrid vigor talk about these days?

And Lowline are not miniature by any means. They can vary from much smaller two very close in size to regular Angus. 

I understand that there's always a risk but I am looking at entering in without acquiring debt to get started


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## Empire (Jan 7, 2016)

Hybrid vigor when talking about certain breed when it comes to carcass weight and weaning weight in f1 crosses. Pure of one breed to pure of another, not a mutt on mutt situation. 
There was a study done starting in 2007 I believe with the help of the Hereford association, showing the f1 cross and hybrid vigor you are talking about. They used Angus cows with Hereford bulls. Then it goes into calf wean weights and such. Only showed about a 500 dollar increase over the 10 year life span of the cow.
Low line cattle are the new fad, like alpacas and Scottish cattle. It's a niche market. You will have to be a good salesman to market your low line gelb crosses to get the same price per pound as pure angus. Sell by the half to a niche market perhaps? In the auction ring, they probably won't bring what an angus will bring because of the smaller size
My angus bring about 25 cents a pound more than my herefords. My black baddies run about what my angus do. 
You have to decide what makes you happy, and at the end of the day, the low line gelb cross would probably still bring more per pound than jersey beef.


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## spurs (Jun 13, 2016)

I appreciate that feedback. If I do in fact go with Gelbvieh and low on cross, it would not be mutt on mutt. It would be full blood on full blood so I believe there could be a benefit to it. But I do see your point about the Angus beef bringing more money. It's definitely something I need to weigh all of my options on before deciding on a path. I would like to have both doors open as far as selling freezer beef and other avenues of sales so I don't want to have little bitty cattle that you can't market as well


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I have heard from multiple sources, and know from my own experience, some of the "continental" breeds, like gelbvieh, don't do much to add flavor or texture. Most of them go back to cattle used as draft/milk animals and beef was just a byproduct. The British breeds are what most people identify as having a good flavor and texture. 

For what you are wanting to do, flavor is going to be important. Once all of the people who are willing to try expensive, alternative food try your beef, you are out of business if it's not a good product. Some people have luck developing niche freezer markets with the jerseys, they taste about as good as anything once you feed them out, but they aren't very efficient. 

Breeding big cows to a dinky bull is not the greatest exercise in efficiency, either. If a cow, or even a heifer, can't have a calf out of her own or similar sized breeding, then she is a cull. You can see some of that coming, there are pelvic measurements, sire EPDs and all kind of tools to help.

You might go the pure route, with lowline or some other fad breed, that way you could supplement your income from freezer beef with sales of high priced breeding stock to other people looking to strike it rich turning grass into money. This is the true nature of most successful grass fed specialty breed beef operations.

One thing to always consider when thinking about "small" breeds. Do you have neighbors with cattle? If so, what breeds? If their bull jumps out, or what most likely happens, when your heifers jump out, are they going to have problems bred to your neighbors bull?

Freezer beef is a good market. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes drought hits and you need to unload cattle, quickly. Also, you might break a leg, have a birth, or death in the family, need to care for an elder family member. Maybe find yourself in a position that you need money, or can't take care of your cows. The sale barn is a great option at this point. 

I sell most of mine at market. Around here, black and white faced sells good at market. Red does OK if it's solid red, if they show too much hereford you will get docked a little. I run some shorthorn (for added thickness) and sometimes you get a crazy colored calf that the cattle buyers will swear has either holstein or texas longhorn in it. If I get something that is off colored a little, or won't sell good at market for some reason, that is my freezer beef candidate(s).


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

WE started doing what you are talking about 6 years ago. Started with full size angus cow calf pairs. (skin and bones at the time bought during draught). bought a 3/4 lowline bull calf. Bull is probably 1200lbs now and just a sweet heart. We have eliminated our largest cow 1900lbs a year ago and eliminate the other large cow this year as soon as we wean her calf. We have been holding back all but one heifer so far and purchased two 3/4 lowline heifers who have produced two beautiful calves this winter and spring. The lowliness are not minis. And they do finish well on grass. The last 6 weeks or so before slaughter, depending on the time of year we add alfalfa (chaffhaye) to their diet. We slaughter around 24 months and have actually cut back each year on the chaffhaye as they were too fat. I have to brag and add that compared to the Nolan ryan grass fed beef we bought before we raised our own turned me off and I was worried until we tasted our own. The last heifer we put up for sale sold all 4 qtrs. word of mouth. I think the smaller size animal is an advantage for selling to the public. Most people do not need a texas size steak. And a 1/4 purchase is easier on the pocket book and freezer space.
Lowline cross;
easy on the pasture
easy on the fences
easy birthing
not as intimidating when handling and loading
www.lazybranch.net


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## spurs (Jun 13, 2016)

Alaska check your PM please


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

If freezer space is a problem for purchasers of a beef quarter, market your beef in shares of 6 or 8. 

It has been years since I saw people marketing beef strictly by the quarter, that is two front quarters and two rear quarters. Since the rear quarter has more desirable steaks than the front, it is less troublesome to divide the whole steer into four equal portions, insuring everyone equal portions. 

In my experience, the wildest, hardest to fence, most dangerous to handle was a herd of Dexters. The quietest bovine I've ever seen was a 2000 pound Angus show bull. He was halter broke and they transferred him from one trailer to the next, at an expressway rest stop parking lot, with a halter and lead strap.

If you are pasture brushing your cattle, I doubt you'll have handling issues based on their size. Eatable beef can be had from knee high clover, alfalfa, grass pastures. Uneatable, tough as boot soles beef is the result of average, weedy, over-pastured fields that are very common.


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

After reading this thread there are some things that may interest you.
The American Gelbveih Association is still quite young. These cattle were only brought to the USA in the early 1970's. They are still at a point where they are registering bulls at 15/16's and heifers at 7/8's. And prior to the turn of the century they were registering 7/8's bulls and 3/4 heifers. So in a sense you are already getting a hybrid animal. Any traits that come about are from other breeds being infused in.
The EPD's are still really spread out causing some inconsistency across the breed.
If you want to breed Gelbvieh stay pure. You already have a cross there.
By the way there are better feed converting breeds out there.
As I read what you have posted, your goal is to turn grass into money, and food for your table. You have 110 acres to work with. You want to raise them exclusively on grass. And you want to do so without debt.
In the best frame we are only talking about 10 animals total, drawing exclusively from the land. 18 if you were to buy inputs.
So my question is this. Why would you not want to produce the most per acre that you can?
Now here's my opinion. All cattle are grown on grass. The difference comes into play during the finish just before processing.
So if I had a dominant market that desired grain finished meat, why would I move my operation in the opposite direction? When doing so will cause me to have to put more effort and resources into marketing my product.
Going back to the fact that you want grass fed meat on your table. Why not hold one animal back and finish on grass and put the rest in the feedlot. As your market evolves over time you may find that you can sell grass beef.
Why not begin with animals that are good at what they were bred for and evolve with your market if there is change? There's a lot of folks putting out a lot of effort to try and grow a market that as yet is still in its infancy. They may actually be suppressing its growth. This is going to take generations.
I'm a fourth generation producer and have been in the business since 1989. I just sold my first grass fed animal this year.


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## spurs (Jun 13, 2016)

Thanks for the input CIW. I appreciate your point of view, and that is something I'm willing to look at. My thoughts have been to reduce inputs while trying to maximize profits. I have decided against the Gelbvieh and plan to stick with angus. But if I'm trying to maximize how many head per acre, would it not be ok to breed Lowline to the regular angus, and run 25%-45% lowlines on the farm. They finish on grass which reduce input costs of grain. And if I was docked some bc of size, if my up front cost was lower it could work out??? This would also allow for trying to sell 1 or 2 as grass fed freezer beef at the same time. I would not breed the little bity lowlines but rather some of the larger ones. 

I am just throwing that out there to get some feedback. I'm a year out from starting so I'm trying to figure out the best way. It may in fact be better to feed grain. Just wanting different perspectives. Thanks


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

spurs said:


> But if I'm trying to maximize how many head per acre, would it not be ok to breed Lowline to the regular angus, and run 25%-45% lowlines on the farm. They finish on grass which reduce input costs of grain. And if I was docked some bc of size, if my up front cost was lower it could work out??? This would also allow for trying to sell 1 or 2 as grass fed freezer beef at the same time. I would not breed the little bity lowlines but rather some of the larger ones.
> 
> I am just throwing that out there to get some feedback. I'm a year out from starting so I'm trying to figure out the best way. It may in fact be better to feed grain. Just wanting different perspectives. Thanks


It is cheaper to finish PROPERLY on grain than on grass unless you are in an area where you can graze year round. It will take a minimum of 24 months with fantastic pasture to have a well marbled, tender carcass. That means feeding hay or haylage through two winters. This is expensive. If you can finish on grass with a great product and you can pass this expense along to your customers, no problem. If you cannot then you won't have any customers.

I finish my lowline x cattle mostly on grass, but I do have some customers that want the less expensive grain finished beef. Both sets of customers are very happy with their purchases. This is the most important part of the operation. Yes, lowlines will have a better feed conversion on grass, yes, you will be able to carry more head per acre, but if you try to finish on grass from poor or marginal pastures in 15 or 18 months you will not have anything even closely resembling quality beef...I can promise you that. And yes, most lowlines are calm and easy to work with, but there are individuals that can be bat crap crazy just like any breed....they are large animals that can kill you.

A final thought on Lowlines. As you stated not all lowlines are created equal. The lines that I started my herd from are big, beefy tanks that are just a few frame scores shorter than a commercial cow. Be advised that there are quite a few lines that are going for the hobby farm/pet crowd and unless you want an animal that will hang at 150#/half...run. Be sure to see yearlings and two year old animals from whoever you buy your stock from. If you don't know what to look for take someone who does. Remember...full size Angus with short legs is what you want.


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## spurs (Jun 13, 2016)

Thanks Gravytrain. Do you sell all your Lowline crosses as freezer beef or do you sell them farmers or sale barn as well? Will lowlines do ok grazing spring thru fall, then providing hay during winter? 

I may be trying to hard to have both options: freezer beef sales as well as commercial sales, all while using our pastures (which are very good) and hay cut from our farm.


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

Spurs,
I would like to help you develop a more detailed plan to succeed in your endeavor.
Up until now this discussion has been pretty general. With the other items that you are asking it may be beneficial if you would add a little detail about your location. This comes into play when you are deciding when to calve. Which in turn effects your finishing dates. How much feed you are going to put into the animal. Also things like the condition of the land. What kinds of grasses you have. Whether you already have machinery and livestock equipment. Are you away from the farm during the day? How much experience do you have around cattle? 
A few of things I try to remember; Value is in the eye of the beholder. The least expensive thing that I'm going to do is buy the cattle. Only grow what you can sell in your market. And how am I going to get out if I want or need to.
I might work this equation a little different than you. I want to decide what my current operation is best suited for before deciding on what to market. You may find that raising goats for several years to change your pasture is the best route to take in getting to the cattle operation that you want to end up with. And that there is a large ethnic population to buy them. Who knows as yet.


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

spurs said:


> Thanks Gravytrain. Do you sell all your Lowline crosses as freezer beef or do you sell them farmers or sale barn as well?


I direct market quarters, halves and whole portions to customers...mostly halves. Old culls usually go to the sale barn. Younger culls may go in my freezer or be sold as burger cows. I do occasionally sell to local farmers looking for breeding bulls, but only if they contact me in advance as I typically band bulls on day one. Direct marketing probably has the highest profit margin, but you have to deal with individual customers, and if that isn't your forte you'd be better off selling weaned calves.



> Will lowlines do ok grazing spring thru fall, then providing hay during winter?


Isn't this what most cattle do?:shrug: I guess you are referring to my statement about it being cheaper to finish properly on grain unless you can graze year round. My point was that if you try to finish on grass on a grain finished time scale (15-18 months) your beef will be lousy. It doesn't matter if you have great pasture or running full blood lowlines. There simply isn't enough time and excess carbohydrates to deposit intramuscular fat on pasture alone. My lowlines excel at getting fat on pasture, but not in that time frame.


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## ycanchu2 (Oct 21, 2011)

*Isn't this what most cattle do?:shrug: I guess you are referring to my statement about it being cheaper to finish properly on grain unless you can graze year round. My point was that if you try to finish on grass on a grain finished time scale (15-18 months) your beef will be lousy. It doesn't matter if you have great pasture or running full blood lowlines. There simply isn't enough time and excess carbohydrates to deposit intramuscular fat on pasture alone. My lowlines excel at getting fat on pasture, but not in that time frame.* 

Probably some of the best beef I ever had was a 6 to 700 lb. heifer one time. Tenderest steaks I can recall.


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## spurs (Jun 13, 2016)

OK CIW, i'm going to lay out all of the details of my potential cattle farm. I am located in central Arkansas about 30 minutes north of Little Rock. Our pastures are healthy Bermuda and fescue along with some red Clover. I live on my grandfather's old dairy farm it has three good Barns and good fence over most of the property. There are a few places that I will need to repair some fence but otherwise it is all in good shape. as for now I only have access to about 10 acres worth of pasture. My dad has the other part of the pasture leased to another man who will be cutting hay off of it. I have the use of my dads two tractors for anything that I need it for. My plan is to start with two bread Cows and grow it from there. I would be able to pay cash for two cows and moving forward keep the heifers and sell the bulls that i band for steers. Although I will not be cutting hay I know that I can buy hay at a discounted price from the man who is cutting hay off of our land, if that makes sense. 

As I grow my herd, I will be able to get more land to use for my dad. I am in a good situation as there is no cost to me for the land or the equipment. The cattle and any feed or vaccines is the only cost I will have for now. 

Gravytrain, I feel that I would have potential to sell freezer babe and get that started. I am open to my auctions. And yes by that question I was referring to what you were saying about the grain. I understand that it will take longer to finish out on grass alone 

I really appreciate any guidance anybody can give


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## spurs (Jun 13, 2016)

I forgot to say to that we have a corral and headgate.


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## spurs (Jun 13, 2016)

That should say freezer beef, not freezer babe! Lol


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

arbeef.org Its the Arkansas Cattleman's Assoc.
You may want to go to this website and attend their convention in August. It will let you rub elbows with local cattlemen. See what they are doing and why. It looks to me that they are going a different direction than you are looking to go.
Maybe hold off on deciding what kind of animals that you want to produce. You may find out some info. to avoid some tough mistakes.


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## spurs (Jun 13, 2016)

The more that I have looked at it, the more I have started to lean the way of going tradition regular angus. As I am starting out, with minimal experience, if I went the Lowline route I think I would b taking a larger risk and probably lose a lot. I'm wanting to set up to continue a small scale beef farm for years to come, and I feel that going the traditional route would probably b best. I can still start small with 2 head and build my herd. Calving ease is one reason I liked the idea of Lowline, so I would just need to select a bull that is proven for calving ease.


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

ycanchu2 said:


> Probably some of the best beef I ever had was a 6 to 700 lb. heifer one time. Tenderest steaks I can recall.


I'm not surprised a yearling would be tender...I would be surprised if it was well marbled on grass alone at that age.


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## ycanchu2 (Oct 21, 2011)

Gravytrain said:


> I'm not surprised a yearling would be tender...I would be surprised if it was well marbled on grass alone at that age.


 That was over 15 years ago so I don't really recall the marbleing, it probably wasn't.
We just took one right out of the pasture, probably had some small defect that would have gotten it docked heavily.
Going to do another heifer or two this fall if cattle prices keep on a downward spiral.

I'm not so sure how great a factor marbling is in a steak. It may influence the flavor some, but most people marinade and add all kinds of flavorings anyway, so its gonna get covered up in a lot of instances.


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

ycanchu2 said:


> I'm not so sure how great a factor marbling is in a steak. It may influence the flavor some, but most people marinade and add all kinds of flavorings anyway, so its gonna get covered up in a lot of instances.


Marbling is almost everything in a steak. The flavor of the muscle tissue is important too and that is why I prefer a grass finished steak, although I don't turn my nose up to any good steak. When it comes to grading beef....marbling IS everything.

People don't typically marinade quality beef. They do that to lesser beef or tougher cuts in order to tenderize it and/or add flavor.


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## ycanchu2 (Oct 21, 2011)

GT. I guess I'm not the connoisseur of steak as you are. If its tender I usually like it.
Its so hard to get a good steak nowadays in the grocery or a restaurant that ain't tough.
In the future I may try a two year old heifer if I have to cull one, right now i'm culling some two year olds but they have a lot of charolais in them which seems to be a bit tougher.
I have heard that Wagu or Kobi beef is really tender, I have a few calves out of a 1/2 Wagu 1/2 angus. I plan on trying one of them this fall. I was told the full stock Wagu are almost too tender.


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

ycanchu2 said:


> Its so hard to get a good steak nowadays in the grocery or a restaurant that ain't tough.


I hear ya. Virtually no prime graded beef makes it into grocery stores. It's all gobbled up by fine restaurants and hotels. A lot of people are willing to spend $80 for a 16oz Ribeye at a nice restaurant, but not enough people are willing to spend $80/lb (or even half that) for great steak in the meat dept. at your local Kroger. I'm not willing to do that either.

So if you want a prime steak you either have to pay a king's ransom at a restaurant, go to a specialty butcher in a larger city or grow your own if you have the genetics, forage and time.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The younger the animal is, and the steeper the growth curve it is in, the more tender and well marbled it will be. This is the advantage to grain finishing. You can harvest a young animal, with tender muscle fibers, that is well marbled for premium flavor.

The problem with grass feeding is winter time. You calve one in the spring, wean it in the fall, then kill it the next fall at 18 months old or so. In most practical instances closer to spring and 24 months. If they drop off too much in the winter, right after being weaned, it might take you until summer to start gaining weight over weaning weight. It takes very good hay (second cut grass or alfalfa), winter wheat pasture, or massive amounts of very high quality stockpiled grass pasture to keep them from losing weight after being weaned and going through the winter. Most calves go straight to a feedlot, eat enough grain to feed them and the winter wind. Some are put on grass through the summer and back on grain for a while the next fall/winter, some keep on getting the grain and get butchered possibly as young as 15 months.

You could calve in the fall, wean in the spring, then butcher the following summer, during a high growth curve. BUT, you will be feeding a calf all the way through two winters, plus feeding lactating cows through winter.

You can simply butcher them younger, but there comes a point that the per head slaughter fee plays in, as well as the meat to bone ratio, that makes it more economical to process a larger animal. I always felt that you get more meat to bone with a larger animal, up to the point that the steaks get tough. All a balancing act.


Genetics play in, the bigger and thicker the calf is at weaning, and going into winter, the better head start he will have when spring grass comes. The thicker that cow is, the better she is going to milk coming out of winter, which equates into a bigger calf at wean, ready to go into his first winter.

I find that the right shorthorn makes for a good thick cow, that doesn't melt in the winter on a diet of low quality first cutting hay and snowballs. Top her with an angus bull, and get black calves for market, and anything that gets a little chrome on it can be retained for freezer beef. There are many ways you can go, no one breed is more special than any others, just look for nice thick genetics within that breed.

Grass fed beef at the store is not a good example of grass fed beef. It probably came from a 4+ year old bull from South America. If it is done right, it is good, but it can be done wrong.

To do what you are looking at doing, you will have all of the management hurdles of a cow calf producer. Plus, you will be tying up resources growing out beeves. Plus processing, storage and marketing. Sheep/goats, reach slaughter size at the same time or before the next crop is born, with cattle, you are going to have two crops of calves at the same time for part of the year. So, you will need seperate pastures, with good fences, to keep weaned calves weaned. 

It can be hard on your cow having a calf on her right up until she drops the next one, doesn't help her body condition-milk production-weaning weight of subsequent calf. It doesn't do any favors for a baby calf if he is competing on the udder with a year older sibling, (it can happen). This leads to the need for more infrastructure. 

Sounds like you have barns, which will help with the winter weight loss, and would work for initial weaning. I have done it both ways, there are things to be said for being predominantly a cow calf guy, loading all of you calves on a trailer and just having low maintenance cows for part of the year. 

Currently, I do cow calf, and have a small lot for keeping a couple freezer beef prospects for friends and family, and the majority of the calf crop become someone else' s problem before the snow comes. A long time ago, we sold all our calves at around 900 pounds to be final finished at a feedlot before slaughter. We retained a few for custom finishing, either grass fed, or grained. (All of ours got grain at weaning, during their first winter, or corn silage). It required either renting another farm, or a cow herd that was smaller. It became more economical for us to do predominantly cow calf and shifting from corn silage to all hay was better for the land and easier on equipment.

I live in good cow country, and it seems like a lot of people are always going into the freezer beef business, and some of them are willing to deal with a lot of aggravation for less than adequate monetary recompense, it is very hard to compete with that. Others add value to their product with the various buzz words, but by the time you pay a butcher and drive a trailer delivering one or two calves at a time to him, the exorbitant prices some of them demand still seem low to me, if they are really following their buzzwords verbatim. 

I'm not so sure, that if I were going into the grass fed custom butchered beef business, that I wouldn't buy weaned calves at auction, and invest my time and resources into pasture management rather than keeping up with a bunch of brood cows and a bull. BUT, if I didn't have a good eye for buying calves already I would befriend or employ someone that did.


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