# Natural Antipsychotic's



## Laura Zone 5

Unfortunately the stress has not killed me, however it is wrecking my body (chronic back issues, acne, insomnia, mood swings like a ditch, panic attacks, poor concentration....yeah I could go on but you get the idea)

What I am more concerned with is the fact that my 3 kids really don't like me anymore. 
I try so hard to be normal, and some days I do a really good job, but I'm not normal.

I do not want to take synthetic / man made drugs, but honest to God I am at the end of my rope, and there is no knot.

I'm not asking for anyone to be my google mommy, but if you know of a site, or certain herbs, etc, please pass it along! Thank you so much.


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## unregistered97395

Melatonin knocks me flat on my back. I only take it when I don't need to be up early the next day because it puts me into such deep sleep.

Dairy, too. A bowl of 2% Greek yogurt (Fage) at about 8 or 9 pm, and I'm asleep within an hour or so.

Magnesium, but not every day---400 mg, stops my leg cramps (which I tend to get for various reasons, too many to explain) AND helps my sleep and nerves.

I have more. I'm a Nervous Nellie with a serious caffeine addiction. I know ALL ABOUT these things. These three things, however, are at the top of my arsenal.

If it's perimenopause, those estriol creams are great. Work like a charm.


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## [email protected]

I am not sure what you mean by antipsychotics. Do you mean you have been diagnosed with a specific psychosis? If so a doctor or therapist should be overseeing your treatment. Psychosis covers things like schitzophrenia not above average life stress.

B complex is helpful for stress, take enough to turn your urine bright yellow. I know of people who have success with D3. I sometimes take a pill I bought on Amazon called myocalm p.m. It has the common herbs for stress and relaxation. It helps a little.

What can you cut out of your life as stressors? Or at least cut back. Are you a perfectionist? Can you work on letting go of at least a little of what is wearing you down? 

Can you afford a massage? Honestly, that can have a huge impact on your stress and health. Google trigger point therapy and myofacsial release, try working on trigger points yourself if you have to. When i am stressed my neck is one huge knot, learning to release the tense spots myself has been a help for me.


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## mekasmom

Minerals-- especially a good trace mineral formula helps prevent anxiety and depression among other mental upsets. 

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q="trace+minerals"+anxiety+depression&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,14

Progessence Plus oil
http://www.youngliving.com/anti-aging-creams/Progessence-Plus


GET A SHUZI-- I know I have said that dozens of times, but it will solve 90% of anxiety and emotional upsets. It just makes life easier when you are protected from electromagnetic interference. They are worth every penny you will ever spend on one. There is a reason everyone in our family has on multiple shuzis. I won't even get into the car with my dd if she doesn't have on her shuzi. It improves mood within a half hour. If you can't afford one, then get one of the older qlinks. They cost less than $50, and will make you feel calmer and better.
shuzi link--
http://www.shuziusa.com/shop/

ebay qlink SRT2 (cheaper)--
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trk...3.TR2.TRC1&_nkw=qlink+srt2&_sacat=0&_from=R40

And if you don't try anything else, get a bottle of magnesium from WM or Walgreens or wherever, and start taking enough of them to feel better. If you reach bowel tolerance from taking too many, then back the dose back down to where you don't have diarrhea. Low magnesium causes all sorts of emotional and medical issues. It should be the first thing any child with ADHD or autism is put on. Just take some, and give it at least a week to see if you feel better. 
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...other+mental+symptoms&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,14

You need some minerals. They will calm you down, and make the world look like a better place.

If everyone close to you is telling you that something is "wrong" with you right now, then you need to realize the problem might be something physically wrong with your body that is causing your mental outlook to be "off". The problems you are facing might look exterior to you at times, but they might be really interior. Something needs to help your perception get back into line.

I do hope you feel better soon. (((hugs)))


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## mekasmom

[email protected] said:


> Can you afford a massage?


with essential oils.....
I think it is the essential oils that do the work more than the massage. I LOVE essential oils and shuzis. They have helped bring such peace to my body. I don't have massages now as much as I use to because I have the baby so much now. I miss them even though I love the grandbaby. Raindrop massage is the most calming thing. And it is so cool. Let them measure your height before and after. You gain almost an inch in height with the raindrop technique. I think it is all the oils.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Rai...16,d.eWU&fp=f2af8c25d47bd856&biw=1024&bih=663


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## Laura Zone 5

[email protected], my doc 'unofficially' diagnoised me with ptsd and depression.
since aug 2011, i have not been the same person i was before.
i hate it.
now my kids hate it.
i have to do something.....not only am i miserable inside, but it's coming out, and making everyone else miserable. i do not want to make their lives miserable.


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## Lizza

Sometimes Laura it is time to bite the bullet and be put on a medication and monitored by the doctor. I do believe psychiatric medications are over prescribed BUT there are many people whose lives are saved by them and I don't mean literally, I mean they get their lives back. They may be a way to get your life back. Or help you get to the point where you do something about your life so you get yourself back. 

I've seen many of your posts and you have tried on your own for a long time now I think? Psychiatric medication is not the end of the world and it doesn't have to be forever. How much worse do you think it would be then what you are feeling now?


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## unregistered97395

I was diagnosed with PTSD some years back. In addition to what I listed above (magnesium especially), here are the most useful things I've found:

Eat regular meals---high protein helps keep me steady.
Sleep. (see melatonin and magnesium, esp. because you say you have insomnia)
Get rid of toxic people ... NOW. You can't do much about your family, but you can do something about others.
Stay as far away as you can from toxic situations.
Exercise---I've replaced exercise with physical work, eg mowing, gardening, stuff like that.
Keep your life as simple as you can.

I had very bad problems for a while, all the way to passing out from panic attacks, but it's all pretty well controlled now. I remain very wary, and I'm not one to let just anyone in my life, but my life is good, I completely trust everyone close to me, and I'm able to use my own experiences in good ways. 

If you have PTSD, it's crucial you take care of yourself physically because hypoglycemia, whatever, will just feed the PTSD.


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## K.B.

For stress, I drink a mix of lemon balm and lemon verbena tea each morning. Good for stomach issues in particular, but they are good for stress induced troubles.

Each fall, my wife and I start on ~10 mg/day of saffron threads. straight up (swallow them whole). Saffron does the best job of warding off season affective disorder of anything I have tried.


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## haley1

Magnesium helps a lot, slowly build up , excess gets flushed out of your system . Helps with cholesterol, blood pressure, muscles, clams you..... good stuff

Try to stay away from meds if possible, lots of side effects


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## Laura Zone 5

I started taking Nutri-Calm by Natures Sunshine (Big "B"s), Calcium-Magnesium, and Omega 3's (fish oil).

I am going to try to eat 3 meals a day. I think I will keep a basket of fruit by my bed so I will wake up, and eat.

I wasn't like this 2 years ago.....I have been a train wreck since a very tragic moment in my life. Can that kind of 'trauma' re-wire my brain? Throw my chemical out of wack?
I just don't see how someone is 'normal' for 40+ years, then because of one traumatic event, all the sudden their chemicals go bonkers and they need meds?


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## mekasmom

Your brain isn't rewired. You are depressed and deeply hurt. Anyone who faces a major trauma or loss goes through that time of depression and grief. It's hard to get over. You need to have the Balm of Gilead applied to your heart.

Worship. When you are alone, just worship. YOu odn't have to do it in a certain way or use a certain song, but worship. Give Jesus one on one time to heal your heart. Worship and praise until the presence of God falls on you. You will know Him. You will feel that overwhelming love and acceptance. Do it again and again and again as often as you can get alone with the Lord. Let Him heal you.
When our oldest ran away to the youth pastor because we wouldn't let him go to ps, I was so hurt. We were charismatic, but he wanted to go to the denominational church where a fool told them we were "mean" to not let them go to ps and dances, and other things. I was so confused (Didn't Jesus love us? Were we bad people? Had we sinned?....) It took a long time to heal because we loved our children and wanted that perfect relationship back without all the nasty teen drama and hatefulness. 
You are facing great greif. You were betrayed and hurt deeply. You need the Holy Spirit to heal your heart, tell you how much Jesus loves you, and how precious and beautiful you are to Him. But you have to spend time with Him to get that. Just worship. Lift your hands, dance before the Lord, sing to Him, and let Him heal you. Do it until the hurt is gone, and you KNOW who you are In Him.
Go to YouTube and pick a few songs to listen to and sing to the Lord over and over. Let Him heal you, and rejoice over you with singing because He will.
Start with this one.... Close your eyes, lift your hands, and let Jesus love you. Spend time in worship. The garment of Praise cause the spirit of heaviness to leave you.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vh7-RSPuAA[/ame]

Go on to this one...
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAMbEPZfWCY[/ame]

And move on to others...
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVd7Hh5WCyc[/ame]


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## Laura Zone 5

I agree mekasmom...I agree that praise and worship cleanses the soul.

I didn't know if I needed to get a blood test to see if my brain was broken. 
I have not gone to the doc and taken meds because I was 'normal' for 40+ years...and I know I can get back there...I know I can.

Maybe I should find a shrink to go talk too? I am always afraid that I will have to go to 10 before I find the right one, and I HATE wasting time....makes me kooky......but, all things considered it might be worth my time.


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## whodunit

Here's what I take, partly due to depression:

1000 mg fish oil three times a day
2000iu vitamin D3 three times a day
B-complex once a day
200 mg B6 once day
1 gram vitamin C three times a day
1 gram powdered ginger three times a day

Also eat lots of eggs for the lethicin and cashews for the tryptophan, which are both needed for brain function and serotonin production.


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## unregistered168043

Sit indian style with your back straight hands in your lap in a quiet room. Clear your mind, take one breath in concentrate on the breath moving into your body, do not think of anything else MIND CLEAR. Concentrate on the exhale moving out of your lungs, through your nose from beginning to end. Then another breath. Your mind will jump in and thoughts will come unbidden, ignore them and clear your mind. Do this for ten breaths. Its like exercise the more you do it the better you'll get.

When you can do ten breaths without interruption of the mind, you'll have improved your mental state tremendously. Soon you'll love the new silence and 'nothingness' that you can revert to. You'll do it for 5-10 minutes at a time, then longer.


That's your best medicine, there is no drug or herb that will be nearly as effective, EVER. I guarantee it. If you try this everyday and stick to it it will change your life.


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## mekasmom

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I didn't know if I needed to get a blood test to see if my brain was broken.
> I have not gone to the doc and taken meds because I was 'normal' for 40+ years...and I know I can get back there...I know I can.


My only thoughts on this is that it puts you in a bad position to be diagnosed by a doctor as having any mental illness or mental difficulties. I would not do it, but that is just me. You never know what the future might bring. Perhaps someday you will want a job that a mental illness diagnosis, even just anxiety or depression, would prohibit you from getting. You might want a hunting permit and gun to hunt that a depression diagnosis would keep you from getting. You might want to be a bus driver, a daycare provider, or many other things that having a past mental illness diagnosis would stop you from getting.

I have to be honest here..... There is no way I would ever go to a psychiatrist or doctor for a mental illness diagnosis or drugs unless it was the very last resort. It can come back to bite you in the butt in many ways.
Now, if you do get really, really depressed and ill with no improvement, or become "out of it" then it might be the only choice. But you aren't there yet. And I personally would not choose to go that route just because it does put such a stigma on people and prohibit them from some jobs, activities, etc.


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## Ardie/WI

Laura, Laura, Laura, quit beating yourself up over this! You expect far too much of yourself and far too little from others.

You've gone through major trauma---yes TRAUMA. You need intensive care right now. Yes, see someone who is trained to deal with emotional trauma. Get help and soon


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## TNHermit

http://www.vitacost.com/twinlab-gaba-plus#

Living in today&#8217;s fast paced world means dealing with high stress. It also requires quick thinking. GABA Complex is made of some of the best ingredients for nervous system and brain health.** There is Gamma-Aminobutyric Acid (GABA), which functions as a neurotransmitter in the central nervous system, Inositol, an essential component of cell membranes that plays an important role in cell growth and function, and Niacin, a B-Vitamin that promotes nervous system health and energy metabolism.** Together, these ingredients help you cope with the demands of the modern world by supporting the health of your nervous system and brain.**


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## Laura Zone 5

mekasmom said:


> My only thoughts on this is that it puts you in a *bad position to be diagnosed by a doctor as having any mental illness or mental difficulties. *I would not do it, but that is just me. You never know what the future might bring. Perhaps someday you will want a job that a mental illness *diagnosis, even just anxiety or depression, would prohibit you from getting. *You might want a hunting permit and gun to hunt that a depression diagnosis would *keep you from getting. *You might want to be a bus driver, a daycare provider, or many other things that *having a past mental illness diagnosis would stop you from getting.*
> 
> I have to be honest here..... *There is no way I would ever go to a psychiatrist or doctor for a mental illness diagnosis or drugs *unless it was the very last resort. *It can come back to bite you in the butt in many ways.*
> Now, if you do get really, really depressed and ill with no improvement, or become "out of it" then it might be the only choice. But you aren't there yet. And I personally would not choose to go that route just because it does put such a stigma on people and prohibit them from some jobs, activities, etc.


I 100% whole heartedly agree with you.
That is why I have not.
My old doc (who has gone into private house call practice) "unofficially" diagnosed me, because she KNOWS this is (a) episodic (b) temporary.
But she told me that if I were to see her on an "official" visit, it would be a slam dunk diagnosis. 
She is was very much all for doing things as naturally as possible....no synthetics, etc. 
I was sad to see her go....

There are A LOT of good tips here in this thread that I will be executing.
There are a lot of things I don't know, but what I do know for a fact is God has a Plan, and it is good.....Because His plans are never to harm me. I absolutely believe this. Absolutely.


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## unregistered97395

Maybe consider a counselor or a psychologist who doesn't have "prescribing" privileges? My "diagnosis" came from a counselor like that.

And some support groups might be good. In recent years, my work office has been a refuge for several PTSD veterans I've had as students. I didn't counsel them---I'm not at all qualified for that---but they knew I wouldn't find it the least bit odd if they calmly walked into my office, carefully closed the door behind them, and promptly freaked out. I've had huge veterans who look like they could break me in half burst into hysterical crying or just sit there shaking in my office before. All they needed was a place where it was safe to do that---not advice, not soothing, just a safe place and a safe person.

Maybe just having one person in your life who isn't going to get all controlling on you or anything like that? I have several friends who helped me tremendously through the years just by being there and not trying to fix me or control me or tell me what's what or set me straight or or or ... That alone is worth its weight in gold.


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## MollysMom

If anyone on this site ever considers taking Effexor don't it! Also if you are on it, never ever go off cold turkey. It is a horrible antidepression med that should be banned! Horrid med.


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## Laura Zone 5

Thank you for the warning Mollysmom...


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## Mooselover

i don't know what you're going thru. whatever it is, it's obviously thrown you sideways. i've been thrown sideways a couple of times and i do remember the depression/anxiety. a very horrible place to be!! i have no words of wisdom or suggestions. for me, it took A LOT of time and the best support i had were my friends and prayer (lots and lots and lots of prayer). sending you much moose-heart and many moose-prayers ~ML


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## kirkk

Valerian is the plant that Valium was synthesized from, easily found, inexpensive, great for stress.
Try a mixture of melatonin, L tryptophan, and GABA before bed. Not only will it give you a good nights sleep, but they are also the precursors to serotonin, the "feel good" neuro chemical. Many antidepressants are synthetic serotonins, which over time will make you dependant on them. Using precursors to get your body to release serotonins naturally is the way to go.
If your depression is due to hormonal changes, try terrestris tribulus, a hormonal balancer. Its been found to raise luteinizing hormones which are the precursor to estrogens/testosterone.

Be well


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## mekasmom

kirkk said:


> Try a mixture of melatonin, L tryptophan, and GABA before bed. Not only will it give you a good nights sleep, but they are also the precursors to serotonin, the "feel good" neuro chemical. Many antidepressants are synthetic serotonins, which over time will make you dependant on them. Using precursors to get your body to release serotonins naturally is the way to go.


There is a product on the market called Alteril, sold at WM and other places that has melatonin, tryptophan, and valerian in it. 
https://www.google.com/search?q=alt...16,d.eWU&fp=4017a9f86a935173&biw=1024&bih=663


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## bluemoonluck

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I wasn't like this 2 years ago.....I have been a train wreck since a very tragic moment in my life. Can that kind of 'trauma' re-wire my brain? Throw my chemical out of wack?
> 
> I just don't see how someone is 'normal' for 40+ years, then because of one traumatic event, all the sudden their chemicals go bonkers and they need meds?


PTSD can stem from a single traumatic event, yes. Part of my training as a counselor was Traumatic Event Debriefing. It has been proven in several very good studies that how a person processes the traumatic event in the 24 immediately after that event can make the difference between PTSD and being able to "shake it off", so to speak.

Every time you have an experience - good or bad - your brain makes a little electric pathway to go along with the memory (you could call that a small rewiring if you wanted to). If an experience is REALLY good or REALLY bad, your brain makes a bigger pathway. The pathway is created during the first 24 hours after the event, and set fairly firmly after that. 

Everything we experience in some way/shape/form rewires our brains, maybe so subtly we can't tell, maybe in a huge way. Depends on the degree of the experience.

For PTSD there are all kinds of different meds you can take, but counseling with a therapist who is experienced in PTSD is probably more effective. It's hard to find a qualified therapist thou 

I have a general anxiety disorder and PTSD (along with ADD) :stars: so I know how hard it can be when you're having an episode. Physical activity helps, focusing on something completely unrelated (preferably a hands-on task of some kind) helps, meditation helps...... Find an activity that calms your mind, even if it's just watching fish swim around in a fish tank, and learn to go to that activity when you feel yourself getting anxious.

((hugs))


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## TNHermit

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I wasn't like this 2 years ago.....I have been a train wreck since a very tragic moment in my life. Can that kind of 'trauma' re-wire my brain? Throw my chemical out of wack?
> I just don't see how someone is 'normal' for 40+ years, then because of one traumatic event, all the sudden their chemicals go bonkers and they need meds?


Your traveling down the road to the city on the hill. Then the road turns to stone, to gravel to dirt and to nothing. You turn around and the return is gone. You have ten trails in front of you but no map. You cry out but there is silence. You and you alone have to make the choice. You have to tell yourself that what ever is up front you will come to grips with and conquer.
Pretty scary, Pretty stressful


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## pamda

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I started taking Nutri-Calm by Natures Sunshine (Big "B"s), Calcium-Magnesium, and Omega 3's (fish oil).
> 
> I am going to try to eat 3 meals a day. I think I will keep a basket of fruit by my bed so I will wake up, and eat.
> 
> ]
> I was going to sugest the Nutra-Calm, it is a lifesaver for a lot of people. Get some Magnesium iol, it gets to your blood stream fastest. My b-i-l also takes St. Johns wort from Natues Sunshine. It does help.


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## Laura Zone 5

OMG
This thread was started 5/9/13
Today is 6/3/13

25 days ago, I started this thread.
Shark week begins in 3-5 days........

Today, I feel like I am gonna crawl out of my skin.:grit:
I can feel the crazy churning inside....
Here's the good news: I see my OBGYN tomorrow and he's gonna draw blood at the HEIGHT of my 'crazy'.
I think it's safe to say that I have PMS from Hades.

I am not going to take any vitamins or anything today or tomorrow so that the blood draw is not tainted.....
Pray for everyone around me.eep:
Their gonna need it.


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## Brighton

New here, and not knowing how old you are, I would assume, you are either well into Peri-menopause or you are completely menopausal!

I hope you doctor finds some answers.


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## Fetherhd

This is EXACTLY how I was feeling...I could feel the crazy inside and could NOT stop it from coming out. I have been on medication for one month now and I cannot tell you how much it has helped. I am actually feeling like myself again. I hope your doctor can help you...I know what it is like to feel totally out of control and not be able to do anything about it!!


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## Laura Zone 5

:grit::grit::grit:

So I had labs done.
Hormone levels: Perfect.
Insulin levels: Perfect
Thyroid levels: Perfect.
White blood cells: Perfect.
Pap: Perfect (I know, TMI)

So awesome.
I am just bat spit crazy.

I don't know where else to look?


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## backwoods

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR)
[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]is a form of psychotherapy used to resolve symptoms resulting from traumatic experiences.[/FONT]​I don't know much about this, have heard it is being used to treat PTSD. A psychiatrist office in town uses it and are said to have good success with treating people who have PTSD, without medications. Google it and see what you think.​​


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## backwoods

http://www.emdr.com/


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## SunsetSonata

I hate taking drugs. I've been seriously ill in years past and had to take a few. Whenever I was put on a new drug I'd always worry that I'd have some awful side-effect, or discover I was one of those few people who were dangerously allergic to it. I'm still that way. 

Most of those drugs didn't work for me, but they did work for others with my condition. I got to the point where surgery was discussed, a mightly unpleasant prospect. The last resort to this was a new medication made from mouse antibodies. Infused directly into my vein! I was a guinea pig and was watched to make sure I didn't have a bad reaction - scary. And now that I am "part mouse" I have been in remission for over 10 years. It really was a miracle. 

You said you're at the end of your rope. Meditation really is great training for your body and mind to relax at least. It's got to at least help. If it's not enough, what have you got to lose to try the medication route? Some prescribed medications are more natural than others, rebalancing the NATURAL chemicals in your brain, allowing you to feel like you, not some drugged artificial you. From what you've posted I doubt you feel like you have a lot of control in your life, but only YOU control what goes into your body. I suspect you feel that not being able to "fix" yourself your way, by yourself without a prescription, is making you further unhappy with this additional loss of control. As with many of my opinions, I may be wrong. 

I just hope you will consider this option if you have exhausted all others. I know sometimes doctors prescribe what's not truly necessary because that's what the patient wants, an easy fix, when what someone really needs to do is make life changes. And sometimes - medications really are an easy fix for a difficult problem.


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## Laura Zone 5

I would be more than willing to go the synthetic route IF:

1. Someone could explain to me how I could be perfectly fine on Monday, and a complete out of wack, chemicals in my brain going haywire on Friday.
WHY did they go haywire?
WHY did they not 'reset themselves' back to normal?
WHAT makes them go haywire.

2. IF synthetics can "bring all chemicals back into balance" and you can "eventually ween yourself off of them" and be "normal again"..........
SURELY there is an alternative that is more holistic, natural, etc.

As much as I hate synthetics, I HATE labels.
A friend of my daughters was told the day before she swore into the Navy that she is disqualified, because on her medical chart, when she was 13, the doctor diagnoised her as "asthmatic". She has not taken meds, in forever, and has never had an asthma attack.
BUT because she was LABELED......she is screwed now.

No thanks!!


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## designer

*Pulsatilla* it is a homeopathic medicine. It is sold as a cold remedy but all the reviews talk about how it helps with stress, anxiety, even psychosis. I first heard about it in a health magazine article about mental health. I use it now instead of the zanax my doctor prescribed. I got mine at vitacost.com and it cost $6 for 250. They are tiny little pills you dissolve under your tongue, taste like sweet tarts. You can take 4 up to 4x a day. I only use them when I am having anxiety, I only take 3 and it works for me.


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## willow_girl

Don't just treat the symptoms, treat the problem.
Change your life!
My 2 cents.


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## Rick

willow_girl said:


> Don't just treat the symptoms, treat the problem.
> Change your life!
> My 2 cents.


There is a lot of merit to this!



designer said:


> *Pulsatilla* it is a homeopathic medicine. It is sold as a cold remedy but all the reviews talk about how it helps with stress, anxiety, even psychosis. I first heard about it in a health magazine article about mental health. I use it now instead of the zanax my doctor prescribed. I got mine at vitacost.com and it cost $6 for 250. They are tiny little pills you dissolve under your tongue, taste like sweet tarts. You can take 4 up to 4x a day. I only use them when I am having anxiety, I only take 3 and it works for me.


I have an anti-anxiety remedy from 1800homeopathy.com called Anxiety - 
Luyties #320 which includes Aconite , Cafeinum, Kali Phos, Nat Carb and Passiflora.

Ann thought this would reduce anxiety, and since I could not find a remedy for her constant chatter, I let her buy it to shut her up. I guess in a way, it worked!

All kidding aside, it is helpful for those times when I start to feel overwhelmed by what's on my plate.


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## pamda

I can't add much to this, I refuse to take many meds as I do not like the side effects and do not want the label, etc. I went to the Dr. Friday in such bad pain. I don't sleep because my feet and legs start hurting and wake me up. And my hip hurts. He tells me I hurt because I am depressed?! Really? Writes me a rx for an antidepressant..ummm..no! I am looking for a new doctor! I have never hurt like this and it has gone on long enough. Of course I am depressed, I hurt and can't sleep.


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## SageLady

Laura Zone 5 said:


> :grit::grit::grit:
> 
> So I had labs done.
> Hormone levels: Perfect.
> Insulin levels: Perfect
> Thyroid levels: Perfect.
> White blood cells: Perfect.
> Pap: Perfect (I know, TMI)
> 
> So awesome.
> I am just bat spit crazy.
> 
> I don't know where else to look?


 
A broken heart can make you mentally, emotionally, and physically sick. BTDT. It takes a long while, sometimes years to recover.... In the meantime, give yourself TLC. Put yourself first for a change. And maybe, just maybe, you need to leave the situation you're in because it is making you sick! Hugs.


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## [email protected]

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I would be more than willing to go the synthetic route IF:
> 
> 1. Someone could explain to me how I could be perfectly fine on Monday, and a complete out of wack, chemicals in my brain going haywire on Friday.
> WHY did they go haywire?
> WHY did they not 'reset themselves' back to normal?
> WHAT makes them go haywire.
> 
> 2. IF synthetics can "bring all chemicals back into balance" and you can "eventually ween yourself off of them" and be "normal again"..........
> SURELY there is an alternative that is more holistic, natural, etc.


I can't answer number 1 but I have experience with 2. I had post partum depression twice and was on anti-depressants both times. The first time I had problems for a while before starting medication. I was able to go off the medications without problems when it was time. Without the meds I would have hurt myself. It was the right thing to take the medication at the time and it was right to go off of them when I did. The depression was likely caused by both physical and life circumstance, hormones and a husband who worked incredibly long hours and no one else to provide any relief for me. I went to a counselor twice the first time, she was young and childless and thought the solution was for me to spend one to two hours a day doing something fun. I couldn't even go to the bathroom unless I had all three kids in there with me. So the meds were what helped.

I am not saying you should take meds, just letting you know they can be a temporary step to get yourself balanced again. Make sure you have a doctor who understands your concerns.

We have two kids with asthma, doctors refuse to officially diagnose them but do prescribe the inhalers they need. Sometimes you have to doctor shop to avoid labels. You might find one to prescribe for you without making a big deal of it.


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## bjgarlich

Laura, you are not crazy - this happens to many of us!!! I struggled with depression for 3-4 years before I gave in and took antidepressants. What a difference - I had my life back!! I was back to my old self. This year I weaned myself off of them - the depression has come back, and I am trying more "natural" methods before going back to the prescription. But, if I have to go back to the prescription, I will, because it did work.

I recommend reading "the Mood Cure" by Julia Ross - it is very specific and has guides to how to try the natural substances (5HTP, St. John's Wort, etc.). Good luck, and please don't feel like there is something wrong with you  

BTW, it sounds like something traumatic happened to you - that happened to my daughter and it took her 2 years (including 4 months of intensive therapy) and prescriptions for antidepressants and anti-anxiety to get through the aftermath. She is now doing great, off the anti-anxiety meds but still on antidepressants. Sometimes it takes a while and you need help to get through it. I think she will be able to wean off the antidepressants soon. 

Take care and keep us posted!!


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## designer

willow_girl said:


> Don't just treat the symptoms, treat the problem.
> Change your life!
> My 2 cents.


It isn't always that easy. Sometimes there's nothing wrong with your life, just something changes in your brain. I also had the "fine one day, insane the next" experience. Mine I believe due to menopause. We're talking mental changes to the point of being "labeled" by a doctor as bipolar.(I don't agree) I tried the meds route, the side effects were unbearable. It takes time and trial and error to get a working treatment. I now only take the natural anxiety stuff and a low dose estrogen from my GYN. I am at a level to where I can function. But I do not think my mental functions will ever be like there were. Hormones have a huge affect on the brain.


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## Laura Zone 5

designer said:


> It isn't always that easy. Sometimes there's nothing wrong with your life, just something changes in your brain.


If my brain changed, it was because of my life.....
My brain was fine almost 3 years ago, then I caught my husband 8 months into an affair.....and 6 months after we reconciled I made an even worse discovery.
PTSD, was the 'off the record un official' diagnosis by my doc, July 2012.



> I also had the "fine one day, insane the next" experience. Mine I believe due to menopause. We're talking mental changes to the point of being "labeled" by a doctor as bipolar.(I don't agree) I tried the meds route, the side effects were unbearable. It takes time and trial and error to get a working treatment. I now only take the natural anxiety stuff and a low dose estrogen from my GYN. I am at a level to where I can function. But I do not think my mental functions will ever be like there were. Hormones have a huge affect on the brain.


I was HOPING it was my hormones.......
But my bloodwork came back normal.

No it's not easy to 'change my life'.
I am in school now....and in Jan 2015, I will have an AS in Social Science AND Hospitality. 
This fall, I will be getting serious about changes.
March 2013 I said "this will be the LAST winter I spend in Indiana".
My spouse reminded me of that comment, last week.......

I need to make good on my word.


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## MDKatie

Please find a good therapist and go talk to someone.


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## Laura Zone 5

MDKatie said:


> Please find a good therapist and go talk to someone.


I don't know where to look?


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## MDKatie

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I don't know where to look?


Look in the phone book and start calling. Explain a little about what type of person you would like to speak with (like maybe someone good with PTSD) and go from there. I know you said you don't like to "waste time" on someone you don't like, but you are wasting time by not trying, right? Therapists/counselors/psycologists/etc are trained to help people, and I really think if you want to avoid synthetic drugs, talking to someone is a must.


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## [email protected]

Start by calling the doctor who diagnosed you "unofficially" she may know someone who meets your desire for keeping it off some sort of permanent record. I am all for doing things naturally but it doesn't seem to be working for you. You are not improving, in fact you say you are getting worse and it is affecting your relationships with the people who mean the most to you. Please let go and ask for help from someone who deals with these types of things. Back when we were young it was not called ptsd, it was called a nervous breakdown and people only whispered about it. There is so much more understanding now, take advantage of it.

Call the doctor, if she doesn't know anyone call someone else. You wouldn't let your children wither and die physically without doing what you could for them and you wouldn't let them suffer emotionally. Why are you doing it to yourself in front of them? 

I am saying this out of kindness, please start making some calls.


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## Ruralnurse

I hesitated to post here as the question was about alternative or natural antipsychotics. I know this is an alternative medication section and as such I don&#8217;t mean to offend anyone. There seems to be some misconception about depression so thought I would offer some insight. Please note this is a very simplistic explanation and not meant for in-depth understanding.

We have several neurotransmitters in our brain. These are like keys to locks. Some of them unlock the gate to feeling good and relaxed. Some if not unlocked will cause us to feel anxious, worried, numb and affect our alertness, our thinking, focus, memory, motivation, emotions and more. 

We put neurotransmitters in categories and they are either inhibitory or excitatory. Think of them as the &#8220;gas&#8221; and the &#8220;brake&#8221;. 

The brakes are serotonin and gamma-aminobutyric acid (or &#8220;GABA&#8221; for short). 

Serotonin opens the locks for feeling good. Think that the sun is out, we are in love, have good self-esteem; all is right with the world. I like to think of serotonin as our &#8220;contentment hormone&#8221;. Serotonin in adequate amounts keeps us from feeling down in the dumps. People that abuse drugs like ecstasy, MDMA, LSD flood their brain with serotonin by these drugs acting as a fake key to unlock the feel good lock. They then have future problems when they stop these drugs because the keys and locks are messed up and it is very difficult for them to feel good at all. 

When we have low serotonin we feel the opposite. We are depressed, anxious, hopelessness, have sleep disturbances and generally don&#8217;t have that sense of well-being. 

GABA is our sedative and helps us feel relaxed. 

It helps with the production of endorphins. The feeling of well-being or calm you have with sexual intercourse with someone you love is an example. When you are sitting on your porch in the evening, enjoying a cup of tea (or whatever), seeing your homestead and feeling good about where you are, what you have done and who you are with, that is the result of GABA. GABA is also at play when you enjoy a good glass of wine, beer, whatever alcoholic beverage you choose. Medications like Valium, Ativan, Xanax, etc act on this. These drugs can be quite dangerous but that is another lecture. I seldom prescribe them. 

Decreased GABA causes anxiety, irritability, impatience, restlessness and if low enough creates such brain excitability to cause seizures. This is one reason that folks that get addicted to alcohol can have seizures with alcohol withdrawal.

The &#8220;gas&#8221; consists of neurotransmitters named norepinephrine, epinepherine, and dopamine. These are also known as catecholamines. These help keep us alert, thinking, focused, help with memory, decision making ability, ambitious, and motivated. 

Norepinephrine is our thinking neurotransmitter. One example of norepinephrine is this: We all know what adrenaline or epinephrine is right? This is our fight or flight neurotransmitter. It is the key that unlocks the ability to run away or fight. So when you are outside locking up the chickens at night (and you don&#8217;t have gun with you) and in the shadows you see a big black bear. Immediately you have a surge of epinephrine in your system that unlocks the key for you to either fight the bear or run away (&#8220;fight or flight&#8221. Your muscles are infused with more blood and with that comes more oxygen, your GI system stops working (and some people get nauseated) because the blood went to the muscles. Well, quickly on the heels of epinephrine comes norepinephrine. It is our &#8220;decision making&#8221; neurotransmitter because you need to make a snap decision to fight or flee. If you are depleted of norepinephrine you have hard time making any decision, can&#8217;t focus and have trouble with memory, feel depressed and fatigued. Too much norepinephrine can cause anxiety, panic and insomnia.

Dopamine motivates people toward achievement, causes happy feelings, positive outlook, increased energy, alertness, confidence. It is involved in folks that are goal oriented. It is also part of muscle movement. People that suffer from Parkinson&#8217;s disease do not have enough dopamine and don&#8217;t have control of muscles like people that don&#8217;t have the disease do. Some drugs like cocaine and amphetamines cause a rush of dopamine in the brain and they get the feeling of euphoria, heightened sense of pleasure and awareness and sometimes psychosis. Too much dopamine can cause hallucinations, paranoia and delusions. So people with schizophrenia have disordered dopamine and can hear voices or see things that are not there. Also people that use some drugs or too much of a drug (yes even marijuana) can have psychosis due to too much dopamine. Even in Parkinson&#8217;s disease there is a happy medium where a person gets enough of the Parkinson&#8217;s medication (levodopa) but not too much (it can cause psychosis). 

Not enough dopamine causes fatigue, low libido, memory problems, anhedonia (fancy word for loss of joy in life). It also seems to cause people to want to withdraw and isolate from family and friends. Ever felt like you have &#8220;run out of gas&#8221; even though you have done no physical activity?

All of these neurotransmitters have to be in the correct balance or we don&#8217;t feel right. 

So why can we feel good for a long time despite bad things happening and then suddenly we may get depressed or anxious? Constant neurotransmitter (key) release can cause the receptor sites (locks) to be desensitized to protect themselves. What can cause desensitization and depletion? 

One big one is stress.

We know that stress can raise insulin, blood pressure and free radicals. All of these can damage neurons. When we experience stress our "gas" or the catecholamines (epinephrine, norepinephrine and dopamine) raise and we release serotonin and GABA (the brakes) to counteract it. If we are constantly under stress and releasing serotonin and GABA we will get desensitize to them and they get depleted. This leaves the catecholamines to run rampant. Excess amounts of catecholamines in our system lead to all kinds of problems. 

And if that was not enough more bad things happen. Cortisol can actually damage some of the receptor sites (locks).

Most of us know that cortisol is released in response to stress. It does this to spare any available glucose for the brain. Glucose is the only form of energy that the brain uses so you can see it is important. But prolonged cortisol exposure in the system can result in all kinds of problems. 

What causes use to release cortisol? Too much caffeine, sleep deprivation, intense or prolonged physical exercise, low estrogen, &#8220;burnout&#8221;, severe trauma or stressful events, severe calorie restriction, among many other things.

So one question the OP wrote was how could she be fine at the beginning of the week and a wreck by the end of the week? It had probably been building for a while and you had reserves. They were simply depleted and you were done, you had nothing left to use to try to normalize.

I do not push medication even though I prescribe them almost every day I am at work. I tell EVERY person that I prescribe meds for: *There is nothing magic about medicine, there is no happy pill; medications will put you in the place to fix yourself. * This is where therapy is a huge piece of the puzzle. 

Some people really are born with messed up locks or keys and they do need medication for life. Just like a person born with diabetes. They don&#8217;t have any keys (insulin) for their locks so they have to take it to survive. Some develop insulin resistance over time (type II diabetes). Insulin resistance is very much like the resistance I described above. Often a newly diagnosed type II diabetic can take the oral meds, lose weight, get exercise and follow a healthy diet and the diabetes goes away and they can stop the meds. But, they are always at risk for it to return if they back slide. 

Much of anxiety and depression is the same. Once you have the messed up locks and keys you can take medications AND do the other things such as excellent self-care with nutrition, sleep, exercise, avoid much brain altering chemicals etc. and you will get better and can stop medications. Knowing that just like the above diabetic, you are at risk for it to return. 

Yes you can simply do all of the self-care and eventually the body will return to normal (homeostasis is a constant desire of our amazing body). But what happens while you are waiting? How long will it take? Some people turn to self-medication and we all know how that can make things worse. Some people can manage if they have good support and really work hard at it. As we get older it is harder and harder, just like other things as our body ages. As I said I don&#8217;t ever push medications, but have seen suffering abate with the use of medications. But keep in mind even with medications, this did not happen over night and will not get better over night either. 

I hope you feel better and if you have any specific questions about medication I would be happy to help if I can.

Ruralnurse
(Family Nurse Practitioner and Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner)


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## Laura Zone 5

Ruralnurse.
Thank you.
The whole post, made sense. Thank you.
Thank you.

Tell me if I am hearing your correctly:

Synthetic drugs can "show the brain" how to operate "correctly" again?
And once the drugs have shown the brain how to function correctly again, you can stop taking them, because your brain has been retrained on how to function correctly?


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## Ruralnurse

Laura,

There are many different kinds of mental health medications. I will focus on the anti-depressants. They also come in many types. Most of them cause a change in serotonin, some also effect norepinephrine and some even effect dopamine. 

None of them &#8220;give&#8221; you the neurotransmitter. They simply help your body to use the neurotransmitter it already has. Taking say an SSRI or "selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor", (which is what I usually recommend for a first time situation in a person that has not had chronic depression) will help your receptors (locks) to be more receptive to the neurotransmitters (keys). It also keeps the body&#8217;s degradation process from removing the serotonin you do have, too soon. We all release and remove serotonin on a cycle constantly. Release and remove, release and remove. Your release and remove process is out of kilter. Again, an SSRI does not GIVE you serotonin; it helps your body to USE the serotonin it already has. It slows down the &#8220;remove&#8221; part of the cycle. 

So what about dopamine and norepinephrine and all the other keys and locks I mentioned? Do you need a different drug for all of them? No. Usually if we can get the serotonin regulated (remember it is the contentment and feel good neurotransmitter) the others will fall into place. Serotonin works on anxiety and depression so taking a med that regulates it helps with symptoms of both.

Once symptoms have abated and life is back to reasonably normal then you can wean off. Research shows that staying on them for a year after symptoms are gone is best. But I have had people wean off sooner. 

I like Lexapro for most people as it is unlikely to cause significant sedation and unlikely to cause weight gain. Any of the SSRIs can be used though (such as Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa [I don&#8217;t use Paxil if a person is probably going to wean off as it can cause a discontinuation syndrome]). Lexapro recently went generic and I have found it helpful for many women. 

If you consider seeing your doctor I would also ask about something for sleep even temporarily. You need sleep, everyone needs sleep. It can be one of the most important things we &#8220;fix&#8221;. Suggestions can be trazodone (an old anti-depressant that did not do much for depression but really made people sleepy [25-100mg]); restoril (a benzodiazepine that is addictive but if taken for a short time should be ok[7.5-15mg]); Ambien (specifically a sleeping pill but some folks have weird side effects, I don&#8217;t prescribe it much[new dose recommendation is now 5mg rather than old one of 10mg]) and a great one is Seroquel. Now don&#8217;t be scared but is it actually an antipsychotic used for people with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. In low doses (25 -100 mg) it causes sedation, but even better is that is shuts down the racing thoughts you have when you lay down at night and can&#8217;t sleep. At least I assume you have this. There are other meds as well that can be used for sleep. I would suggest you try something for sleep even if it is Benadryl or melatonin. You don&#8217;t need it forever but getting some good sleep will really help you get better.

As far as doses, most primary docs that are not psychiatry specialists actually start a bit too high but don&#8217;t go high enough. Whatever you decide on with your doc (if you decide to try), cut it in half for the first 4 days. I prescribe by the &#8220;start low and go slow&#8221; rule. Most side effects will happen initially and if you start low and go slow your body gets used to it. You will read lots of scary side effects but keep in mind they have to put down everything that anyone felt. Most common is GI upset and some jitteriness. Not everyone gets these though. All of this gets better as your body gets used to it. Remember the first time you drank a good cup of coffee when you were 12? You were shaky and really felt it. Now you can have few cups and your body has gotten used to it. Side effects are the same way and I suggest people give it time. The things I tell my patients to worry about is projectile vomiting, rash all over, the worse headache of your life. All of these rarely happen.

A note on labels and diagnosis. I understand not wanting a long standing diagnosis of major depressive disorder or anxiety disorder. It does not really have all the implications that people believe it does (like not owning a gun, I can go more in-depth if needed later). But ask your doctor to diagnose you with &#8220;Adjustment disorder with mixed anxiety and depression&#8221;. This is a valid diagnosis and it is a temporary diagnosis. We see all kinds of situations where adjustment disorder is valid, kids gone to college away from home the first time, loss of a loved one, job change, etc. I see that someone suggested asking the doc if s/he could just give you meds without a diagnosis. Unfortunately we can't do that, we always must have a diagnosis to prescribe treatment.

Also seeing a therapist for even a few visits is really important if you can mange it. 

Let me know if I answered your questions.

Ruralnurse


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## Laura Zone 5

Have there been any medical studies / study groups of people whose 'brain chemistry' was out of wack, but brought it back in alignment through diet, exercise, vitamins-minerals, etc?

I am leery of talking to a therapist.
I have not had good experiences.

As a child, I believe I was hypnotized by the shrink my mom forced me to see.
He screamed at me, accused me of causing problems, etc.
Told me that if I wore "trampy clothes" it would prove I was a tramp. 
I was 13, skinny as a rail, NO development (if you get my drift) braces, zit faced, awkward, and didn't even like boys.
I am 99% sure, he hypnotized me. I think it was to make me 'forget'.....
As an adult, one counselor I saw said "um, you're not crazy, your husband is lazy and immature (20 years ago) BTW, SHE was right.
The next counselor I saw all he did was talk about he and his wife's problems (12 years ago)
The last counselor I saw was a "biblical counselor"who tried to pin my spouses adultery and addiction ON TO ME.

So I am a little leery of counselors.


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## JustRandy

_Approximately 90% of the human body's total serotonin is located in the enterochromaffin cells in the alimentary canal (gut), where it is used to regulate intestinal movements.[6][7] The remainder is synthesized in serotonergic neurons of the CNS, where it has various functions. These include the regulation of mood, appetite, and sleep. Serotonin also has some cognitive functions, including memory and learning. Modulation of serotonin at synapses is thought to be a major action of several classes of pharmacological antidepressants._ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin

You sure you want to mess around with serotonin? Your digestion, sleep, temperature regulation?

It takes YEARS for those SSRIs to get out of your system. I know this 1st-hand. You don't want nonsense cooked up in some lab to make drug companies rich. If you won't put CaCO3 on your garden, don't put, well god only knows what in your mouth.

Laura, there is nothing wrong with you. You're human, with kids, that's all. You type in fine, coherent sentences (you even use "whose" properly), you have a fabulous garden in spite of crappy weather, and I'm sure there would be many things I could say if I knew you more. You're just looking for a crutch to facilitate some illness you seem to want to have when, in fact, you have no illness at all. You're a 40+ woman with normal hormones. Be thankful! Focus on your garden and things that you enjoy and be happy. Just look at things differently. The first step is to recognize when you have "an episode", whatever that may be. Then you can catch it, and stop, and know you're feeling irrational at the moment. Go lay down, it will pass, then come back normal again. Don't say "oh, something is wrong with my brain and I need _____". That only reinforces the negative feedback loop. Go pull weeds. Make compost. Paint something. Watch youtube videos and learn something new about gardening. Do something simple and productive and enjoyable. Make plans and goals and work towards achieving them. That gives you a sense of purpose.

Geez I can't believe I'm saying this positive (icky) stuff. I'm like the most "negative, pessimistic, defeatist" guy ever. That's what women say anyway. Actually I'm realistic. And if I say there's nothing wrong with you, then you can rest assured its true and I'm NOT just trying to make you feel better 

If anything is wrong, its that you're missing something in your social life. We're social animals. That's why you're on here. That's why we're all on here.

Its normal for kids and parents to not get along so well. They're different people with different interests who are forced to cohabitate and try to get along. Don't let it make you feel like you failed as a parent or that you've changed. Maybe they changed (grew up). Kids will do a lot of changing before they're 40.

Just say no to drugs. Even the natural ones. You don't need a crutch for a handicap you don't have.


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## Ruralnurse

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Have there been any medical studies / study groups of people whose 'brain chemistry' was out of wack, but brought it back in alignment through diet, exercise, vitamins-minerals, etc?


Yes Laura, there are of course, other ways to deal with what you are experiencing. With what you stated in your first post:

_âUnfortunately the stress has not killed me, however it is wrecking my body (chronic back issues, acne, insomnia, mood swings like a ditch, panic attacks, poor concentration....yeah I could go on but you get the idea)â_

It sounds as if you are having pretty significant symptoms of depression and anxiety. Alternative treatments can take longer and there is less research out there on how different people will fare. If you want to try other ways, then another thing I offer as an alternative to my patient is what is called âLeViTyâ. I have posted about this before on this forum. It stands for Light Exercise and Vitamin Therapy. I will copy and paste part of the handout I give my patients below. I will also put in a link for original research done as well as the website that makes lots of money selling the vitamin combination. Or as I tell my patients, they can go to Wal-Mart and buy the vitamins for much less.

I offered the info that I did, not because I feel that meds are the only way to help you feel better, but wanted to help you understand how you got the way you did in what you feel was almost overnight. Different things work for different people so some people have bad experiences with medications and for others it is lifesaving. I think it is wonderful that people pay attention to what they put in their bodies and practice prevention and self-care. And at the same time I feel that many lives have been saved and suffering has been relieved by our medical system. 

I am sorry you had such bad experiences with therapy. It sounds as if you got some bad therapists. Unfortunatly in every profession there are good ones and bad ones. I always say that just because someone has initials behind his or her name does not make them good at what s/he does. 

*LeViTY*

A research study was conducted in 2001 by nurses looking at exercise, light therapy and vitamin supplements. Called LEViTY, which is Light, Exercise, Vitamin TherapY. Prior research by others have indicated that exercise has shown to help decrease anxiety and the stress components of depression; that light therapy (especially natural light) has shown potential to reduce the symptoms of seasonal depression; and that certain vitamins have shown effectiveness in enhancing mood. These nurses wanted to explore the use of all three. 

The purpose of this study was to test the efficacy of a tri-modal intervention of moderate intensity exercise, increased exposure to natural light and a specific vitamin regimen using a randomized experiment with a placebo control group. (Brown, et. al., 2001).

The study included only women and lasted for 8 weeks. In that time, the women had experienced a remarkable relief of symptoms. They felt more energetic, joyful, and confident in their own abilities and better able to cope with stress. Additionally the women felt less anxious, less reliant on food for comfort, less angry, and less tired. The participantâs depression scores were cut by 50%. On a test of general well-being, the women's average score moved from the worst to the best possible category in the eight weeks. 
The âprescriptionâ is simple:

â¢	Walk outside during daylight hours for 20 minutes, 5 days a week, at 60% of maximum heart rate. 
â¢	Increase daily light exposure. 
â¢	Take a daily dietary supplement containing: 
â¢	Vitamin B-1 (thiamin) 50 mg
â¢	vitamin B-6 (pyroxidine) 50 mg
â¢	vitamin B-2 (riboflavin) 50mg
â¢	folic acid 400 mcg
â¢	selenium 200 mcg
â¢	vitamin D 2000 IU

http://www.geneva-health.com/bodybluesbook/levityprogram.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11708689

Ruralnurse


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## Ruralnurse

JustRandy said:


> It takes YEARS for those SSRIs to get out of your system.


Can you give me a link or a citation for this? My understanding is that most SSRIs have a fairly short half-life. The longest is fluoxetine and is about 6 days after chronic use. If I am wrong please let me know where I can find this info. 

Thanks,
Ruralnurse


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## SageLady

You're grieving. That is what is wrong with you. And it is caused by what your DH has done....
That takes time to get over, and when you're still living in the same house it's doubtful you will be able to move forward anytime soon - so you are going to feel terrible, miserable, and physically ill. BTDT
You will feel better again someday.... Trust me, I know. I never took a pill to get through it, but I did have to go through all the stages of grief before I got better. Took a couple years for me, and still years later, I remember the pain.


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## Laura Zone 5

Ruralnurse said:


> I offered the info that I did, not because I feel that meds are the only way to help you feel better, but wanted to help you understand how you got the way you did in what you feel was almost overnight. Different things work for different people so some people have bad experiences with medications and for others it is lifesaving. I think it is wonderful that people pay attention to what they put in their bodies and practice prevention and self-care. And at the same time I feel that many lives have been saved and suffering has been relieved by our medical system.


I truly, genuinely appreciate all of your input, and you are right, I want to understand HOW I got this way.
I am a 'get the root cause' kinda gal. 
I do not like to throw pills at symptoms, I want to know what is broke, and how to fix it.
I appreciate all of the information you have provided.


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## JustRandy

Ruralnurse said:


> Can you give me a link or a citation for this? My understanding is that most SSRIs have a fairly short half-life. The longest is fluoxetine and is about 6 days after chronic use. If I am wrong please let me know where I can find this info.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ruralnurse


I would think this is common knowledge to anyone even remotely associated with SSRIs. It would be like asking me for a link showing 2+2=4

It takes weeks for fluoxetine to "get into the system" before it starts working. Why would you think it will disappear in 6 days? Do the effects of a traumatic event disappear in 6 days? Anything that affects body chemistry will have a lasting effect. Chemical half-life is irrelevant.

Once you artificially block the reuptake of a neurotransmitter, the body will adjust to that, just like tying a rope to a tree limb and pulling it down to a stake. Let it grow in that fashion and then remove to rope. What do you have? How long before the tree regains its normal shape?

So, you're treating a condition with a drug which produces night sweats, insomnia, digestive problems, sexual problems, teeth clenching, headaches, etc in addition to the hopeful effect of a feeling of happiness and you're hoping that the effects of happiness are the only ones that become permanent?

And, regardless, if you're working with the premise that the drug wears off in 6 days, then a patient will be expected to have to take the drug indefinitely if the patient is to remain happy. And if that's not what the expectation is when treatment begins, then treatment wasn't necessary in the first place.

You can't have it both ways. Either the effects last a long time, or they don't. And you can't mix n match which effects you want to last a long time.

The real issue is a missing piece in the hierarchy of needs:










A drug won't fill that void.

Some people may have serious chemical imbalances and severe mental disorders which may need drugs to manage, but I highly doubt Laura is one of them.


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## SageLady

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I truly, genuinely appreciate all of your input, and you are right, I want to understand HOW I got this way.
> I am a 'get the root cause' kinda gal.
> I do not like to throw pills at symptoms, I want to know what is broke, and how to fix it.


 
I realize both of my posts here to you have been ignored and I'm wondering why I bothered, but I have to say you know what is broke and how to fix it. I'm starting to think you just like the attention it brings you to wallow in your misery, post about it all of the time, and yet do nothing about your situation....


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## Rick

Here is number one. Very thoughtful, hugs and all! Ya know she may be benefiting from theses Sage words.....



SageLady said:


> A broken heart can make you mentally, emotionally, and physically sick. BTDT. It takes a long while, sometimes years to recover.... In the meantime, give yourself TLC. Put yourself first for a change. And maybe, just maybe, you need to leave the situation you're in because it is making you sick! Hugs.


Again - you may be hitting the nail on the head?



SageLady said:


> You're grieving. That is what is wrong with you. And it is caused by what your DH has done....
> That takes time to get over, and when you're still living in the same house it's doubtful you will be able to move forward anytime soon - so you are going to feel terrible, miserable, and physically ill. BTDT
> You will feel better again someday.... Trust me, I know. I never took a pill to get through it, but I did have to go through all the stages of grief before I got better. Took a couple years for me, and still years later, I remember the pain.


I understand where you are coming from, but is it too late to edit out the hurtful, not so friendly part in bold?



SageLady said:


> I realize both of my posts here to you have been ignored and I'm wondering why I bothered, but I have to say you know what is broke and how to fix it. *I'm starting to think you just like the attention it brings you to wallow in your misery, post about it all of the time, and yet do nothing about your situation...*.


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## SunsetSonata

Ruralnurse said:


> I hesitated to post here as the question was about alternative or natural antipsychotics. I know this is an alternative medication section and as such I donât mean to offend anyone.


Education should never offend - it's not personal. Understanding HOW things work takes away the misconceptions and sometimes even paranoia regarding things we didn't previously understand. I found your posts highly insightful and thoughtful, and your scientific explanations easy to follow. You offered several solutions, including those that fit very well into this forum. 

I hope Laura is better able to think through her options with all the info you have provided, and I personally appreciate your contributions.


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## Ruralnurse

SunsetSonata said:


> Education should never offend - it's not personal. Understanding HOW things work takes away the misconceptions and sometimes even paranoia regarding things we didn't previously understand. I found your posts highly insightful and thoughtful, and your scientific explanations easy to follow. You offered several solutions, including those that fit very well into this forum.
> 
> I hope Laura is better able to think through her options with all the info you have provided, and I personally appreciate your contributions.


Thank you for this. As a person that others trust to make very vital and important decisions about their health and life, I take it very seriously to educate. I truly believe in informed consent and take a lot of time trying to help my patients understand what may be going on. I find it humbling and am often in awe when a person comes to me in his or her possibly darkest time and takes what I offer. 

I too hope Laura can find some peace.

Ruralnurse


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## Laura Zone 5

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I started taking Nutri-Calm by Natures Sunshine (Big "B"s), Calcium-Magnesium, and Omega 3's (fish oil).
> 
> I am going to try to eat 3 meals a day. I think I will keep a basket of fruit by my bed so I will wake up, and eat.
> 
> I wasn't like this 2 years ago.....I have been a train wreck since a very tragic moment in my life. *Can that kind of 'trauma' re-wire my brain? Throw my chemical out of wack?*
> *I just don't see how someone is 'normal' for 40+ years, then because of one traumatic event, all the sudden their chemicals go bonkers and they need meds?*





Laura Zone 5 said:


> I agree mekasmom...I agree that praise and worship cleanses the soul.
> *
> I didn't know if I needed to get a blood test to see if my brain was broken.*





Laura Zone 5 said:


> There are A LOT of good tips here in this thread t*hat I will be executing.*
> There are a lot of things I don't know, but what I do know for a fact is God has a Plan, and it is good.....Because His plans are never to harm me. I absolutely believe this. Absolutely.





Laura Zone 5 said:


> :grit::grit::grit:
> 
> *So I had labs done.*
> Hormone levels: Perfect.
> Insulin levels: Perfect
> Thyroid levels: Perfect.
> White blood cells: Perfect.
> Pap: Perfect (I know, TMI)





Laura Zone 5 said:


> I would be more than willing to go the synthetic route IF:
> 
> 1. Someone could explain to me how I could be perfectly fine on Monday, and a complete out of wack, chemicals in my brain going haywire on Friday.
> WHY did they go haywire?
> WHY did they not 'reset themselves' back to normal?
> WHAT makes them go haywire.
> 
> 2. IF synthetics can "bring all chemicals back into balance" and you can "eventually ween yourself off of them" and be "normal again"..........
> *SURELY there is an alternative that is more holistic, natural, etc.*





> I thought this was the alternative health section anyway? Why are discussing pharmaceuticals?


Randy....I went through this thread and highlighted all my 'questions'.
I guess the biggest question that I have is (1) what made my brain go out of wack, and (2) how can I reset it. 
Then the next question was if synthetics actually DO reset things to normal, what is the natural / pure alternatives.

I have seen a doc. I have had blood work. I have sought out help.
I would cut my right index finger off with a rusty knife and cauterize it with a bic lighter to never feel this way again. To infer otherwise is evil.
Ruralnurse has provided me with oodles of information in a format that is easy for me to understand. 
It would be awesome if there was someone out there that could speak to natural alternatives the same way.

I have sorta tried the LeVITY program, but not as spelled out in this thread.
When I am finished with all my homework, I will investigate the two websites that were attached to that post, to further educate myself.

I appreciate the information. What I am seeking is answers to my questions.
I taught my children, don't stop asking until the answer satisfies you. That may come across as me wallowing in self pity, but it's not. 
It's just that I have not received an answer to the question I am asking. If my questioning is annoying, there is an ignore feature. I use it often.

Randy, I appreciated your calcium information in another thread. I didn't run out and buy a bag, but I appreciated the information. 
Now, if all my tomato plants shrivel up and die, and I do not get tomatoes to can this year.......I will revisit that thread, soil test, and if it shows me Ca deficient? 
I will follow your advice to the letter.


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## JustRandy

Laura, your brain is not out of whack, except for the part where you think its out of whack. If you're feeling bad, it doesn't mean your brain is not functioning properly, it means something outside your body is not functioning properly. If you cut your finger off and it hurts, do you say something is wrong with your brain? If you lose a job, a pet, a friend, a family member and it hurts, does that mean something is wrong with your brain?

Hormone levels: Perfect.
Insulin levels: Perfect
Thyroid levels: Perfect.
White blood cells: Perfect.
Pap: Perfect (At your age, this seems fairly remarkable in itself)

Obviously, there is nothing wrong with you. People degenerate as a whole. People don't usually, suddenly develop one big issue while the rest of the body is a model of health, like yours. If there was something wrong with your brain, other parts of your health (endocrine in particular) would be questionable too.

Plants won't shrivel and die from Ca deficiency. You may get some blossom end rot on some tomatoes. Things may be a lil less tastey. And the nutritional value of the food may be a lil lacking in Ca, but that is all.

In summary:

_(1) what made my brain go out of whack?_ Nothing

_(2) how can I reset it?_ No need to

_(3) if synthetics actually DO reset things to normal?_ To normal? No. They do change things though, and the end result could be better than the beginning (or worse, depending), but I wouldn't agree with "normal". Not in my experience or from my research or understanding.

_what is the natural / pure alternatives?_ St John's wort is widely known as a herbal medicine for treating depression.[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_John's_wort

I like the Levity program, though its not a medicine per se.

Ruralnurse's intentions are good. There is no doubt. The problem is her training has been biased. As an example:

Peter Duesberg, Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of California, Berkeley, CA, has been saying HIV doesn't cause AIDS for decades, yet no one takes him seriously nor can he get any funding because, obviously, there is no way for the drug companies to get rich. Duesberg says drugs cause AIDS, not HIV. You can see how utterly important it would be to drug companies to keep such views under the rug and "uncredible". http://www.duesberg.com/index.html

Here is a cheap cancer treatment that, for some reason, Teva decided to stop making in 2011 http://www.viewzone.com/mebendazole.html Why? How can you get rich when the cure for cancer is a cheap worm medicine we've already been using for 50yrs? Oh no! We need to stop making that and discredit that quick. We need the cure for cancer to cost $1000s per treatment. Actually, we don't want a cure for cancer... we want TREATMENTS for cancer so we can milk people for as long as possible and keep getting more funding for further research.

If any Dr or RN disagrees with the agenda, they lose credibility and their job.


Take a minute and read this:

_I spent some time investigating a cancer research institute in the Midwestern US, so I know a little whereof I speak. With an annual budget of hundreds of millions of dollars, this cancer institute was basically a factory for spending research dollars. Whoever could write the best grant proposal and get the most money to blow was top dog. I assure you, this place had nothing to do with finding a cure for cancer. They had a seven story building as big as a hotel that held room after room after room of experimental animals in little wire cages all stacked up on roll-around carts. They had an assembly line (or should I say a disassembly line) of underpaid women who worked all day slicing up freshly killed white rats, mice, and hamsters and putting the slices on microscope slides and then putting a thin little glass cover over the rat tissue. This took up an entire floor of another large brick building and was called the department of Histology. And what happened to the slides? They were shipped out to a &#8220;storage facility&#8221; in the boonies where they were stacked on shelves. I was there, once, at this &#8220;scientific specimen&#8221; storage facility. Imagine a good sized single-story library with high ceilings and high bookshelves throughout, but instead of books there were boxes and boxes of glass microscope slides all carefully labeled, each with a little slice of animal tissue between the slide and the cover glass. Thousand and thousands of boxes of glass slides. And this had been going on for a while, and the housekeeping was none too great. When one walked down the aisles between the shelves one walked on six or eight inches of broken glass slides and had to be careful that a crumbling box full of slides didn&#8217;t fall on one&#8217;s head. I swear I am not making this up. And you wouldn&#8217;t believe the toxic waste from &#8220;cancer research&#8221; they stored out there in the hinterlands. Barrels and barrels and more leaking barrels. If you&#8217;re trying to give animals cancer you generate a lot of toxins. You don&#8217;t want to know how awful this place was.

I have to tell you one more story while I&#8217;m thinking about this. That seven story building full of rats, mice, and guinea pigs generated a lot of waste. Down in the basement they had a sort of commercial dishwashing setup with a conveyer tunnel that cleaned the cages with high pressure hot water and soap, and all day long there was a constant stream of six foot high rolling racks of dirty animal cages coming down the elevator. Down in the hot, steamy, stinking cage washing area there was a crew of underpaid young black guys who spent all day emptying the mess out of the cages, hosing them off, and re-stacking them to go through the washing tunnel. The cage waste, manure, food, and bedding, most of it highly contaminated with carcinogens, was augered up to a big hopper bin. At least twice a week the bin had to be emptied, so they pulled a large open dump truck up to the hopper, filled it up and proceeded to drive it, uncovered and wafting carcinogenic rat waste, about twenty miles through the city to the municipal dump, where it was dumped right in with the household garbage. These researchers never gave a thought to the fact that they were spreading carcinogenic waste across the city and contaminating the landfill with it. They were strictly in it for the money.

*I swear, if you were a researcher at that place and you came up with a cure for cancer they would knife you and stick your body under six feet of cement in the cellar, where no one would ever find you. You would be putting them all out of a job.*

Q. Unbelievable. That&#8217;s science? That&#8217;s where the thousands of millions of dollars we&#8217;ve been spending every year on cancer research for the last thirty five years has been going? 

. Agricola: I&#8217;m afraid so. *And I&#8217;m afraid that&#8217;s where your money goes when you have a walkathon to raise money for research on whatever,-- pick a disease. If you find a cure, you&#8217;re out of business as a researcher. Of course, if you can come up with a synthesized drug that affects the disease&#8217;s symptoms, some drug that is patentable and that people can be convinced they must continue taking for the rest of their life, you can be a rich hot shot too.* What is so incredible to me is that this is accepted as normal, rational behavior. It&#8217;s not, of course. People who don&#8217;t care what the consequences of their actions are, who don&#8217;t care who or what they hurt as long as they get theirs, are known in psychology as psychopaths or sociopaths-- dangerous and mentally unbalanced menaces to society. And these kinds of people are who we have running science. And industry. And government. _ http://www.soilminerals.com/AgricolaII.htm

They don't want to cure you, they want you to keep coming back for more SSRIs. If SSRIs cured depression, they wouldn't make enough money to cover all the lawsuits.


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## Karen

This forum is for natural alternatives to medications and traditional medicine. That doesn't mean that someone can't offer information and help related to the use of traditional medicine and medications. It only means they are to be respectful of the alternative methods, not push traditional methods on someone, nor be a naysayer of alternative methods. 

I don't believe Ruralnurse has done that and, has in fact been respectful to alternative ideas. She simply asked for information to back up a claim. So, by the same token, we need to be respectful back. We don't have to take any ones advice, but we do need to respect that someone cared enough to take the time to help - even if they do support traditional methods over alternative methods.

With all of that said, it does bear a reminder that many things in alternative medicine have no scientific basis or reason to work, -- but they do! Nor do they have studies that will convince someone who deals in traditional methods. So it just comes down to allowing each other the grace to have different views and not argue over them. Everyone just state your case and let it go.


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## Ruralnurse

I apologize to anyone that was offended by my posts. I will refrain from responding to posts in the future to avoid such a situation.

Ruralnurse


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## Laura Zone 5

Ruralnurse, you did not offend me at all.
You explained things in a way that I can understand and make decisions based upon educated, understanding!


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## thenance007

There is an alternative therapy called EFT "Emotional Freedom Technique" that can be highly effective for PTSD. May I suggest you read

http://www.amazon.com/EFT-PTSD-Emotional-Freedom-Techniques/dp/1604150408

I have used EFT for many years to help people with headaches, emotional issues, pain, etc. It is very simple to learn and use on yourself or find someone to help you. It usually resolves issues in only a few sessions, and if you pay yourself instead of using insurance, you can avoid having it in your records. 

There is even a tutorial on Gary Craig's website www.emofree.com that teaches you how to use it. Gary is retired now, but there are a lot of people who use it in their practices.


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## Karen

Ruralnurse said:


> I apologize to anyone that was offended by my posts. I will refrain from responding to posts in the future to avoid such a situation.
> 
> Ruralnurse


Please do feel free to post here anytime. Your information is totally in keeping with the HT motto of "Neighborly Help and Friendly Advice". You didn't push your opinion on anyone, only gave it freely and it was helpful.


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## Esprit

Passion Flower works great for stress. Great for "shutting down your mind" when you can't sleep.
Omega 3 with the highest EPA you can find. Great for those with "pure OCD"

Lysine 2000mg/day helps with that sick stomach feeling you get with sudden nervousness.


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## wyld thang

As someone who has basically dealt with "crazy*" people all my life(first my mom, then my husband), which the latter one ended with death and a huge mess, FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR LOVED ONES, get help. ANYTHING that helps. 

*for anybody that gets offended by my use of "crazy"...sorry. I tried my best to help them, I am not bitter. This is serious stuff and sometimes the bunch of words needs to get cut through and action taken.


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## wyld thang

And for the ones who want to stay under the radar to keep their guns, children and spouses are so much more precious. That was one of the reasons my husband gave for not getting help. I cannot tell you how much that hurt us all. 

Laura I'm not saying you are like that. Just throwing that out there because I see that reason given here often for not going to a doc if you're feeling "crazy". I hope you find something that works for you!!!!!!


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## wyld thang

ps, give yoga a whirl, along with anything else you do.


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## wyld thang

btw runner's high, which you can access by doing any aerobic exercise past an hour above 60-70% max heart rate, is a natural antidepressant. Also helps with anything one would throw Ritalin at.

read this
http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/riding-my-ritalin

ps I have many contra dance and dirt biking friends that say they have to dance/ride or they go crazy. I know I do. When I mean crazy for myself it feels like my hand is in a electric socket getting zapped, my thinking is frantic. Dancing/riding is also a very social activity, something you do with friends.


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## unregistered97395

Karen, thank you for preserving, so to speak, RuralNurse's posts. As someone who has had to deal with PTSD (as successfully as can be done, I might add), and as someone who is in near constant contact with a nurse who believes in non-drug and drug therapies (a family member), I can attest her information and suggestions are right on target and a valuable addition to this forum.


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## motdaugrnds

I've hesitated to post here due to the fact we only know what the OP has told us. We cannot see her and we do not know specifics about what is going on within her environment. Thus, we can only give "information" (like RuralNurse) that we think might help.

This is information I believe might help. 

Knowing "why" we act as we do is ok; however, it does not actually "change" what we do/think/feel/sense. Traditional medication can change the "symptoms" of what we are experiencing and, thus, make it easier for the "environment" to tolerate us. Traditonal medication can even calm our nerves. Still it more often than not only treats the symptoms that are disturbing us/others. 

There are methods of treatments that deal with changing behaviors FIRST, permitting emotions/nerves/thinking/etc to fall in place more naturally. The professionals who qualify to do this type of work are not as well acknowledged as those who dispense medicines; however, their work "empowers" and "encourages" the one seeking answers/changes. Such empowerment cannot and should never be discounted. Too many people feel they are victims and seek others/medications to do the work inside themselves that they need to do for themselves.

One of the most important things the OP needs to ask "self" is "What am I getting out of being like I am now?" Please know this is not an attempt to put the op down in anyway. It is simply another means for the op to get more information that only she can provide for herself.


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## Laura Zone 5

motdaugrnds said:


> I've hesitated to post here due to the fact we only know what the OP has told us. We cannot see her and we do not know specifics about what is going on within her environment. Thus, we can only give "information" (like RuralNurse) that we think might help.
> 
> This is information I believe might help.
> 
> Knowing "why" we act as we do is ok; however, it does not actually "change" what we do/think/feel/sense. *Traditional medication can change the "symptoms" of what we are experiencing and, thus, make it easier for the "environment" to tolerate us.* Traditonal medication can even calm our nerves. Still it more often than not only treats the symptoms that are disturbing us/others.


THAT is one of the BIGGEST reasons I do NOT want to do synthetics.
I do NOT want to walk around in a way crappy relationship with a Bozo smile on my face. 
I do NOT want drugs to make a crappy situation, manageable.
I want to REALLY live!

Man, you hit the nail on the head!!!!



> There are methods of treatments that deal with changing behaviors FIRST, permitting emotions/nerves/thinking/etc to fall in place more naturally. The professionals who qualify to do this type of work are not as well acknowledged as those who dispense medicines; however, their work "empowers" and "encourages" the one seeking answers/changes. Such empowerment cannot and should never be discounted. Too many people feel they are victims and seek others/medications to do the work inside themselves that they need to do for themselves.


Rewiring behavior is the key.
1. Understanding WHO you are and WHY you are the way you are.
2. Recognizing WHY you choose what you choose.
3. Confessing / Admitting where your patterns are bad bad bad.
4. Learning how to, and executing RIGHT patterns.

Yep. Totally agree.



> One of the most important things the OP needs to ask "self" is "What am I getting out of being like I am now?" Please know this is not an attempt to put the op down in anyway. It is simply another means for the op to get more information that only she can provide for herself.


What does not kill me will make me stronger......
(No offense taken at all, this is a GREAT post!!!)

What I am getting right now is my shiznit together.
After 24 years of thinking 'it's gonna last forever' and 'one day I will be that grandma that cooks and takes care of the animals, and loves on the grandbabies'..... 
AND NOW REALIZING that both of the above mentioned will never happen?
Yeah, 24 years of living in one thought pattern, takes some time to get out of.
Slowly but surely....

It's the anger (that deep down, you don't tell anyone about, but man it's easy to set off kind of anger) is what I am trying to deal with....

This was a great post.


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