# Advice for learning multiplication tables?



## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Our daughter is in the third grade at a public school. We are extremely pleased with her teachers.

DD is very behind with multiplication tables, and I'm not sure how best to help at home.

What is funny is that a teacher made a set of flash cards, and she does pretty well with the randomness of those flash cards. But, when it comes to going thru the 4's, she has a difficult time. Even when we do 4x1, 4x2, 4x3, 4x4, etc, she is pretty clueless and lost.

FWIW, she has mastered the easiest ones, 0x, 1x, and 2x. She is fair with 3x, but only on the lower numbers. 

We really, really need to get her up to speed with multiplication tables.

If you can, would you give me specific advice of the best way to teach this topic?

I am open to standard memorization, games, songs, etc. It seems like there was a song we sang when I was a kid, but I can't remember it! 

Thank you so much for your time, advice, and for helping my little one!!!!!!


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Work on them in the car. 

Counting by ones, twos, threes, fours, etc...


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

Also, there is a computer game called Timez Attack (yes, that's how it's spelled). My daughter loved it and had up to the three's memorized in short order. Then I upgraded my OS on my computer and it doesn't work anymore.  I've got to find an old laptop so I can get it again.


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## jmtinmi (Feb 25, 2009)

Flashcards and drilling seem to be working here. When our A Beka curriculum introduces another table (like 8s this week) I will pull the appropriate cards and set them a side. For the next few week or so, he will drill the cards by counting by 8s. Then they will be put into the main stack for reviewing. All the while his curriuclum allows for plenty of written work to reinforce all the facts learned to date.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

Drill and memorization is really the only way to learn multiplication tables. Cheap flash cards, try learning one at a time (like x2 or x5), then progressing until she's got them all. I used something called Calculadders when my oldest kids were young (I think that was what they are called, not sure they are even around anymore!), basically timed basic facts, one worksheet per day.


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## halfpint (Jan 24, 2005)

Things I have found to help with learning math skills and drills are Calculadder, Quarter Mile Math, learning skip counting (there are several different CD's available of skip counting songs and these can be done in the car). For one of my children the Calculadder did not help much, but the Quarter mile math really helped her improve her skills. When I purchased Calculadder you got all six levels in one package, now you can get it on CD and print yourself, or get it bound for each of the six levels and it looks like level 2 has the multiplication through 9's. You can go to their website and have them send you a free trial pack to see if you would like it: www.calculadder.com
Dawn


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

morningstar said:


> Drill and memorization is really the only way to learn multiplication tables.




No it's not. It might be the fastest or even the easiest (for the teacher anyway), but it's certainly not the only way. 

When I have kids in class who are having trouble learning their tables I say fine, no problem. Can't remember what 8x7 is? What is an "8" fact that you know? 8x5 is 40? OK, add two more sets of 7 to it. 

It's _slower_, but it's been my experience that a few weeks of doing it the slow way, they start memorizing their tables just as a matter of course to make things easier on themselves... :shrug:


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## BusyBees2 (Dec 10, 2004)

I carry around a set of dice! Every chance I have (moments of idle time) I roll them and my DD gives me the answer. That works for up to 6 x 6.

But at the teacher's store you can get blank dice. A sharpie works great on writing on the x7, x8, x9, x10, x11, x12 for the upper facts. The dice were about .45 cents each I think.

For more fun at home, I also got foam dice that are about 2 1/2" cubes. They come in different colors and the 2yo likes to help roll them out for DD so it becomes more of a game.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

*Thank you for the information!!!!!* It is already being used to help DD with X tables!!!

I am so appreciative of your time and help!!!!!!!


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

ErinP said:


> No it's not. It might be the fastest or even the easiest (for the teacher anyway), but it's certainly not the only way.
> 
> When I have kids in class who are having trouble learning their tables I say fine, no problem. Can't remember what 8x7 is? What is an "8" fact that you know? 8x5 is 40? OK, add two more sets of 7 to it.
> 
> It's _slower_, but it's been my experience that a few weeks of doing it the slow way, they start memorizing their tables just as a matter of course to make things easier on themselves... :shrug:


Ok, you lost me a little bit. Isn't this the same thing as drill and memorization? You still have to basically memorize the multiplication's, just a different way, to solidify them you still need to do drill. Multiplication is basically fast addition, without the fast part, what's the point?

By the way I STILL do that to this day, the 5's are so easy I'll go from there a lot of the time, or I'll just literally add the numbers in my head but it is hardly the fastest and if I had to use them daily I would need to do some more drill. I also do the 9's trick a lot. My oldest is a wonderful student and she memorized them a long time ago, my middle's strength's does not center around book work, I basically just try and get her and keep her at a functioning level of multiplication facts (much like her momma's) but if you are going to excel (like my oldest), if school is basically going to be your career for most of your young adult life, then drill baby drill . Although this hardly needs to be done in the 3rd grade . My kids also had the flash master (or called something like that, whichever one Sonlight sell's). I actually have been trying to track it down because it is drilling of math facts in a hand held game, I bought it for $50 and it really helped. I was going to drag it out again because my middle one is still having problems with memorizing them, she needs to be just a touch faster. Like I said, in 3rd grade though I just did the calculadder worksheets, this was in the dinosaur days before all the computers & internet sites, I'm sure there is something for free and better online these days.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

morningstar said:


> Ok, you lost me a little bit. Isn't this the same thing as drill and memorization? You still have to basically memorize the multiplication's, just a different way, to solidify them you still need to do drill. Multiplication is basically fast addition, without the fast part, what's the point?


No, drill and memorization is just... well... memorization via repetition of some sort, independent of any real use. Flashcards, counting by 3s, 6s, 8s, etc. Memorization. :shrug:
What I was talking about is when the child is doing their math work and can't think of their memorized facts. That is, they _aren't_ memorized yet. So I have them do it as addition. 

Sally has 7 friends. She wants to give each half a dozen cookies. How many will she need? 

Eventually, they'll get to the point that they memorize out of _necessity_, just because it's a pain in the neck to keep adding it all up! But it's a real-world use that makes them memorize. Not things like flashcards and or Math Blaster...


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

I think the most important thing is to make sure the kid really understands what multiplication IS before memorizing. My 11 year old was in public school through 4th grade and she has these facts memorized, but even today (now homeschooled, in 6th) she will sometimes struggle to choose the right operation [e.g. in multi-step word problems] because I'm not sure she was ever really solid on the concept of multiplication. Not long ago she was trying to multiply money by money ($4.15 x $2.50 or something). I had to go back and say "do you know that you are _mutliplying_ $4.15 two dollars and 50 cents times? That doesn't even make sense! You can _multiply _ $4.15 two times, or 3 times, but not $2.50 times." 

Often instead of calculating the answer for word problems, I have her write out the steps and operations in words to make sure she understands what to do first, before just hammering away with math facts. 

So I agree with the "each kid wants 3 cookies, there are 4 kids, how many cookies do you need?" Until the child is really solid on the idea, then start working on getting the facts faster. In my opinion, until they know what they mean, there is no benefit in memorizing them. And when they are ready, it will be no big deal to memorize them.

www.thatquiz.org is another good site for practicing facts and math skills.


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## jmtinmi (Feb 25, 2009)

It is also important to add that if there isn't a good base with the addition and subtraction tables that will slow them down when division problems are being worked, and carrying for multiplication. 

When my son gets frustrated with the tables, I remind him that he is building connections in his brain that will allow for instant access of information that is drilled. He seems to like that, and accepts drilling better.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

Math really is like building blocks, you HAVE to have a good base or nothing makes sense, and there is nothing to build upon. I certainly wasn't saying that you should drill without a kid actually understanding WHAT everything means, but once they've got the what is happening part, then to learn the tables, drilling is really the only way to be able to learn them by heart, I mean like I said, I don't know them by heart anymore and I use my own crude way to figure it out, but kids should learn the tables. I mean the multiplication tables aren't some abstract thought process we are teaching here, it is just rote memorization basically (after the what the heck does it all mean phase).


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> drilling is really the only way to be able to learn them by heart


No, it's not. 
That's what I'm saying. I've known a lot of kids that never did learn them via drilling. They learned them by repetitious use _in their work._ 
Strings and strings of addition (6 sets of 7's added up, 4 sets of 8's, etc) all over the margins of their papers. lol


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

ErinP said:


> They learned them by repetitious use _in their work._ Strings and strings of addition (6 sets of 7's added up, 4 sets of 8's, etc) all over the margins of their papers. lol


Goodness, that seems like the hard way to learn something, I'm sure you could but honestly if a student is doing strings and strings of addition on the margins of their papers they obviously don't know their tables, a simple quick very easy way to learn them is to just memorize them, pretty painless really. Although I'm certainly not against taking the long way around and who knows maybe it sticks longer. Although, I made my oldest daughter memorize them around 3rd grade or so and she still knows them all (yes, I ask her if she's standing right there and I don't know!), but she also still does math on a daily basis. Of course we all do math on a daily basis but she is still in school. Since she will be getting a math & science degree, I guess it's good she knows them! 

She is but one child though, they are all so different. I still am breaking out my hand held drilling game for my middle child  she knows exactly what they are, has used them extensively with strings of addition and still doesn't know them, she has learning disabilities though. For the most part they do not extend to math but it does cross over some, memorization is not her strong suit. It took her until she probably 13 to learn her address and phone number and still isn't 100%. When she was tested they told me she did have a severe disability in this area BUT weird enough if you give her the numbers backwards she can recite them back no problem at all, the psychologist said it uses a different part of the brain. Still breaking out my drills (again) though and hoping for the best!


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> Although I'm certainly not against taking the long way around and who knows maybe it sticks longer.


It does indeed. 
And, the kids who've done it the hard way tend to know their tables _better_ by the time they're in 5th or 6th. 

Rote memorization just _doesn't_ work for some kids. Why fight it? 
Let them do it the hard way (but far more logical) and eventually it'll sink in.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

ErinP said:


> It does indeed.
> And, the kids who've done it the hard way tend to know their tables _better_ by the time they're in 5th or 6th.
> 
> Rote memorization just _doesn't_ work for some kids. Why fight it?
> Let them do it the hard way (but far more logical) and eventually it'll sink in.


I am hardly a hard nose teacher and like probably everyone I only care that they learn it. I just feel that for the most part memorizing it is the easiest fastest way for _most_ kids. Of course for kids having a hard time because of learning disabilities of course there should be different way to figure it out. Memorization still has a place though. I suppose we can agree to disagree


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

I don't think so. 
I think the learning styles of individual kids should be respected. 

Just because rote memorization doesn't work for some kids _hardly_ means they have learning disabilities... If anything, it probably means that they're more learning-_able_ than kids who can learn via memorization. That's not really "learning" afterall. 
It's _memorizing_. 

No where have I said that memorizing is inherently bad or even that it's not useful. 
I just disagreed with your statement that that drill and memorization are the _only way_ to learn the multiplication tables.

And I _still_ disagree with that.


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## Reptyle (Jul 28, 2005)

I haven't read all the post, so my apologies if someone has already said this...She may be a visual learner, which will make verbal instruction harder for her.

Take four pieces of something that you can cut into 8, then 12, then 16...etc.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

ErinP said:


> I don't think so.
> I think the learning styles of individual kids should be respected.
> 
> Just because rote memorization doesn't work for some kids _hardly_ means they have learning disabilities... If anything, it probably means that they're more learning-_able_ than kids who can learn via memorization. That's not really "learning" afterall.
> ...


I never meant that if they are having a hard time learning that they all have learning disabilities. 

I give up, sometimes I wonder why I post anything, ever.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

morningstar said:


> I never meant that if they are having a hard time learning that they all have learning disabilities.
> 
> I give up, sometimes I wonder why I post anything, ever.




I think that every kid will learn multiplication their own way. Whether that is repetition, visualization, strings of addition, or a combination of all of these thing (which it probably is for most of them).

Once kids understand how to multiply and divide, they will pretty quickly realize that every math problem takes too long unless they have the facts memorized and "available" for immediate recall. It really isn't very helpful to be able to visualize 8 plates of cookies with 3 cookies on every plate when you start multiplying 438 x 3. Eventually the kids will need to have *memorized* the basic multiplication facts so they can move on to more complex problems.

So, in my opinion, when you're pretty sure your kids understand the concepts of multiplication, get out the flash cards, the mad minute math, and the online games and drill them so they know them FAST, not just "know" them.


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## Happy Palace (Sep 21, 2007)

Times Tales. http://www.TimesTales.com I was skeptical that it would work as advertised, but it did! My 10 yo could not learn her multiplication facts. I spent $35?? on this & in two sessions - 90 minutes total - she had them cold & still knows them. She can even use them in reverse with her division facts. This program delivered as promised!


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Thank you again for all of your wonderful advice!!!!!

We are making progress!!!!!


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## Sarabeth (Sep 14, 2008)

I just want to say that the Timez Attacks game worked great for us. It really is a fun game! You can probably google it and find it - I dont have it anymore.....
Sarabeth


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## Plaid Pancakes (Mar 3, 2011)

http://www.plaidpancakes.com

Check these out. There are a complete set of songs related to multiplication tables 2's -12's.

Skip counting is definitely connected, and there are two songs that tie skip counting to multiplication. Parents needs to help kids with these, though.

Very listenable. Kind of a learning as you live method. Also, good follow up to flashcard time.

Laura


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

The best math program I have seen for my DS is called MathUSee. It uses manipulatives. It does cover multiplication, as well as algebra and even starts on some calculus.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Math-U-See is a fantastic resource for kinesthetic learners. Kids who need hands-on, rather than those that already have the ability to deal with abstract ideas -- rather than something like Saxon which is an exceptional program for kids who have that ability.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Saxon uses manipulatives... 
At least, in the lower grades (4th and under)


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Most primary-level programs do use manipulatives, Erin. I was actually referring to the higher grades -- middle school and up. Sorry I wasn't clear on that.


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## cindy-e (Feb 14, 2008)

my kids have liked computer games for math facts. We happen to really like math over here, and they don't mind doing it, but hey, why not use what they like if you can. They like computer games. =0) 

Cindyc.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Gotcha!


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> Most primary-level programs do use manipulatives, Erin. I was actually referring to the higher grades -- middle school and up. Sorry I wasn't clear on that.


Math U See was the only math program I was able to find that used manipulatives for some of the higher math. This is why I got it. It's a great way for DS to actually see the problem and find the solution. It amazed me at how quick he was able to tell you which color block represented which number.


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## mommathea (May 27, 2009)

ErinP said:


> It does indeed.
> And, the kids who've done it the hard way tend to know their tables _better_ by the time they're in 5th or 6th.
> 
> Rote memorization just _doesn't_ work for some kids. Why fight it?
> Let them do it the hard way (but far more logical) and eventually it'll sink in.


So not true....
I was one of those kids. Switched schools in the middle of 3rd grade. From public to private. Public school was just starting to get 3x, and the private school had already completed the x tables and were doing practice and review. 
The only way I could keep up was by doing the add on from where my memory left off. And to this day that is what I still do. I hate it, but never took the time to memorize the x tables because I could get by. I feel behind even as an adult. Using a crutch is not the same as walking.
I'm in the process of teaching my 2nd grader counting by x tables in the lower numbers, and you better believe that I'm drilling him BIG time. I want him to succeed and not to simply use a crutch.


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## greenhorn (Jun 3, 2009)

My kids started watching the Schoolhouse Rock Multiplication Rock video when they were about 2 and 3. When I started actually quizzing them on it at ages 8 and 9 they pretty much new it. We love those old '70's songs from Schoolhouse Rock!! Dd 5 can recite 2's 3's and 5's and almost 9's!


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## pheasantplucker (Feb 20, 2007)

When I taught, I made a grid...each square was about 1". You should have 11 blank squares in a column. (I used 8.5x14 paper) Start with 2 (putting a two (2) in the top box of the first column. Tell your child that you are going to call out random numbers...from 1-10. They are to multiply every number you call out by 2 and put the answer in the next available box(going down). Then call out numbers in a fairly rapid pace( perhaps two seconds between each call)...say "6, 2, 4, 8, 9, 7, 5, 1 ..." as they are writing 12, 4, 8, 18, 14, 10, 2...in each box. The key is to get them to simply write the answer down, almost as quickly as they hear the number you call out. Check their answers, when he gets 100%, you move on to "threesies"...They put a 3 at the top and you do the same thing. If they fail to get 100%, they simply stay at the same number and you work at it again with the same number until they do get 100%. This time, you're calling random, once again...5, 9, 2, ... Kids enjoyed it and it really instills in them an immediate recall of the product of two numbers. I think it's way more effective than flash cards. Good luck...pm me if you need further clarification...I know I'm not being super clear about this.


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## noeskimo (Mar 17, 2011)

I teach adult learners, inmates in fact. Most have had problems learning their mult facts.Almost all improve by making the task more physical. I have them write their tables out at least daily,saying them aloud as they go.Sometimes this multiple input method-writing,reading and listening/speaking helps.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

noeskimo said:


> I teach adult learners, inmates in fact. Most have had problems learning their mult facts.Almost all improve by making the task more physical. I have them write their tables out at least daily,saying them aloud as they go.Sometimes this multiple input method-writing,reading and listening/speaking helps.


It sounds like you're teaching kinesthetic learners, noeskimo, which is interesting to me, considering the environment you're teaching in. I wonder if there have been any credible studies done on the relationship between learning styles and crime?


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