# package or nuc??????



## the kid (Jul 9, 2006)

Ok ,,,, do I buy nucs or package 
do you get two or three pounds of bees with a nuc ???? :icecream:  or do you only get one pound :flame:
no I was just trying to find were you come out best,,,,In the past I had gotten pakages.. but this year Im open to eather??????
has any one heard any prices?????????/??/

tom








in t


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Do you know, I never weighed a package? 

A bit of trivia: I noticed that my first=year hives did not produce more honey than they needed, and I thought that was just the way things were with a new hive. Then I found out the local bee expert got a LOT of honey from his first-year hives!

Apparently, instead of feeding until the bees had good stores laid in and the flowers were blooming, he fed until the day he put the supers on. The bees raised more young bees that way, and the greater population produced a surplus of honey.


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## Me Beekeeper (Jan 6, 2009)

*Quick Start* :walk:
A package is economical. It's light to ship. It's the cheapest way to get started in creating a hive other then catching a swarm or making a divide. If your looking for the the best way to get started, it would be to buy an established hive. Well, that's too much, too big, etc. So, a Nuc, short for nucleus is the next best way to go. You have an established laying queen that has a history of a good brood pattern shown in her nuc. You have 4 or 5 frames full of bees, brood, honey and pollen. The bees are productive and ready to be put into a full deep when you get them. A package is made of bees from who knows how many different hives. The queens are often mass produced and untested for brood pattern, some have gotten queens with problems(such as unmated), etc. Package queens aren't necessarily accepted by the bees in the package and take time to become acquainted. So the Nuc is way ahead in every aspect compared to a package. :icecream:


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## Me Beekeeper (Jan 6, 2009)

Terri said:


> Do you know, I never weighed a package?
> 
> A bit of trivia: I noticed that my first=year hives did not produce more honey than they needed, and I thought that was just the way things were with a new hive. Then I found out the local bee expert got a LOT of honey from his first-year hives!
> 
> Apparently, instead of feeding until the bees had good stores laid in and the flowers were blooming, he fed until the day he put the supers on. The bees raised more young bees that way, and the greater population produced a surplus of honey.


:banana02: Yes Terri, it gives the bees something to do. :banana02: We generally feed a hive that has allot of comb to draw out. We have such spastic weather, that if it's too cold, wet, dry, or windy the bees tend to stay home. When they stay home, they need something to work with. The feed feeds the new hatched nurse bees and gives them the carbohydrates they need to make wax. So, feeding a package or nuc is a must to get them through the winter. Then you might luck into surplus honey if you have a good location and weather has been helpful.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Me Beekeeper said:


> :banana02: Yes Terri, it gives the bees something to do. :banana02: We generally feed a hive that has allot of comb to draw out. We have such spastic weather, that if it's too cold, wet, dry, or windy the bees tend to stay home. When they stay home, they need something to work with. The feed feeds the new hatched nurse bees and gives them the carbohydrates they need to make wax. So, feeding a package or nuc is a must to get them through the winter. Then you might luck into surplus honey if you have a good location and weather has been helpful.


Actually, this guy was putting supers on hives that had not yet had their first winter. Bees here arrive in March, and he had supers on his before July.

Spring weather in Kansas IS very windy and often stormy, so perhaps they DID all stay in and work to put away all the syrup!

I just had a thought: perhaps I should use a different kind of feeder. I usually use a quart jar with holes stuck in the lid and turned upside down: if I used one of the larger feeders more bees could work at it. I did not use them because I did not want any to drown, but, maybe I should investigate the bigger feeders anyways.

Using the quart jars the bees rarely use more than a gallon a week, and that is only if the weather is bad. They barely touch it when the weather is good!


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## Me Beekeeper (Jan 6, 2009)

Terri said:


> Do you know, I never weighed a package?
> 
> A bit of trivia: I noticed that my first=year hives did not produce more honey than they needed, and I thought that was just the way things were with a new hive. Then I found out the local bee expert got a LOT of honey from his first-year hives!
> 
> Apparently, instead of feeding until the bees had good stores laid in and the flowers were blooming, he fed until the day he put the supers on. The bees raised more young bees that way, and the greater population produced a surplus of honey.


Yes, I get about 20 to 40 lbs when starting a new hive. I helped a beginner this past season and he got 65 lbs of surplus honey from a package. We stood there watching them. They flew out over 2 acres of white clover to get something better. We didn't complain because we could see how they were building up and how productive they were. That was a fun hive. :icecream:

:buds: But who's going to take the time to count how many bees there are per pound. Well, depending on the bee, the researchers tell us you get about 3200 to 3500 bees/lb. :buds:


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## barelahh (Apr 13, 2007)

Terri said:


> Actually, this guy was putting supers on hives that had not yet had their first winter. Bees here arrive in March, and he had supers on his before July.
> 
> Spring weather in Kansas IS very windy and often stormy, so perhaps they DID all stay in and work to put away all the syrup!
> 
> ...


I just make some feeders that fit under the top of the hive. 
I'm in se kansas. Do you know anyone that has nucs for sale here
I would love to have carnolilans.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

barelahh said:


> I just make some feeders that fit under the top of the hive.
> I'm in se kansas. Do you know anyone that has nucs for sale here
> I would love to have carnolilans.


This gent keeps us supplied: "heartland honey and beekeeping supply". He USED to run mid-con bee supply, but he is now semi-retired and operates out of his garage.

Every winter people order bees from him, and every spring he goes south and picks packages up. Folks go to his home to pay and to collect his bees.

Alas, he says carniolans did poorly for him, so he only gets Italians. 

Perhaps you can order a carniolan queen in the mail? I got a queen in the mail, once. They brought her to my door and I signed for her.

I belong to the Northeastern Kansas Beekeeper's Association, and I SOMETIMES see ads for nucs. Sometimes, anyways!


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## beehoppers (Jun 3, 2008)

Nucs are usually better off than packages because there is a balance of young bees, middle bees, older bees. Package bees are normally mostly the same age. Its not necessarily better that there may be more bees in a package.


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## Beltane (Nov 27, 2005)

Interesting topic! I just always figured that nucs were better since (up here anyways) there is such a short season for the hive to prepare for winter. I can't believe that someone got 65 lbs of surplus honey from a package in ME! We usually have various flowers in bloom through October....but that return on a package is amazing!


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## barelahh (Apr 13, 2007)

beehoppers said:


> Nucs are usually better off than packages because there is a balance of young bees, middle bees, older bees. Package bees are normally mostly the same age. Its not necessarily better that there may be more bees in a package.


that is probalby true but i don't know how i can use the frames in atop bar hive. Secondly i can't find any nucs near me so far.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Tom, A 5 frame nuc is normally the way to go. You get the 5 frame jump start on a package. Normally you get local bees that are already adjusted to your areas climate. Also you are normally closer to the person selling the nuc incase some thing isn't right.

A package of bees will have a different number in each package. The amount depends on a couple of things. How genorious is the beekeeper shaking the bees into the package?  How many bees are still flying in the package while it is on the scales.
There has been a lot of problems of late with package queens reported in the bee magizines. Over half it seems are supersceded in the first 45 days. 

Prices I have seen so far this year seem to run from $55.00 to $70.00 plus shipping by USPS for 3 pound packages. Nucs seem to be running from about $70.00 to $95.00. Those prices cover about all breeds of bees and all areas of the USA.

:rock: Just spliting your colonies into 5 frame nucs is the real way to go Tom. Raise your own queens too. 

Got your computer fixed? *Send me an e mail for help doing your own nucs or splits.*
 Al


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## Me Beekeeper (Jan 6, 2009)

Beltane said:


> Interesting topic! I just always figured that nucs were better since (up here anyways) there is such a short season for the hive to prepare for winter. I can't believe that someone got 65 lbs of surplus honey from a package in ME! We usually have various flowers in bloom through October....but that return on a package is amazing!


Yes, it was pretty incredible. He lives in York Cnty, which is in southern Maine. He's near a small community with allot of perennials, flowering shrubs, locust, etc. beautiful location. Then he fed them until the hive bodies were well drawn out. Then we practiced frame manipulation to keep the queen in the bottom hive body with milk brood, honey, pollen, and open frames for egg laying. He checked the hive every 7 to 10 days. When a bottom frame had all sealed brood, we put it in the upper hive body with plenty of honey and nectar. We created an explosion of bees by July. It was a bit intimidating for a beginner with so many bees, but he did a great job. Of course he had connections, he's a member of the clergy. :angel:


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