# When to introduce an LGD to it's herd.



## TrinityAcres

I have read a lot on these threads about LGD's and have learned a lot. We are new to owning dairy goats and I was thinking about getting an LGD for my little herd. I'm not new to dogs or training but I don't know anything about when and how to introduce an LGD to the goats. The goats we have now are afraid of our dogs. We have an aussie and a border collie. We would be looking at getting a puppy, possibly a Great Pyr. I understand the basic training of the puppy but my other questions are these:
What age do you start leaving the dog with it's herd?
How much of an area do they have to have?
The dog would not be allowed to roam, is this ok?
I have trained puppies to not bark and have read that the Great Pyr. is a barker..can they be taught to not bark? I think this might upset our neighbors.
I have 3 fenced areas for the goats..do I need 3 dogs or just one to patrol the perimeter of the pastures. We only have 5 acres total.
If this dog stays out with the herd, doing it's job, will it want to leave and play with the other dogs, forgetting it's job?
Thanks...I know I have a lot of questions, but I like to do my research before jumping into anything


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## Goat Servant

I am no expert but what we did was keep our first pup in a pen next to goats when we werent there to supervise.
This went on for several months because goats were afraid of him but one would ram him. I later learned I should have just let that doe teach him in his place.
At the time we had one dairy doe whose leg was lacerated. I will never know his thinking, he was from a dairy goat farm but this doe was a much darker color than the Boers.
I yanked him out & put him back to other pen.
During the day he was on a long chain outside goat fence.
He was about 9 mos old & jumped fence. I took him back out. Within a few minutes he jumped in again so I figured he was ready to work.
Have not had any trouble since, except he does not like kids jumping on him so he now stays with the bucks.
As for barking, it is not an annoying bark. Some of the neighbors actually find comfort in it.


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## Goatress

I'd first suggest you take the time to go back through the posts on this board and you'll find many of your questions are already discussed and answered.

There are also links at the top of the page (sticky). Check them out.

There are books out there and other forums too.

Do your legwork.

If you are worried about barking, I can tell you this, don't get an LGD. That is what they do. Get a llama. Or do without. But barking is part of what LGDs do to keep predators away. Talk to your neighbors if you think they'll be mad. 

Don't count on your LGD to be on its own without supervision correction and you also shepherding it and your stock, until its a year old. Don't expect too much out of it and rush it. Biggest mistake most people make, they expect it to be everything, do everything, with 'nary an error, and they expect this out of young pups. Second biggest mistake: people under dog and don't run enough dogs.

Lot of material out there, there's even a new meat goat book out with chapter in it about LGD's. Go research before you make this commitment because they are a lot of work. But worth it. Good luck.


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## BarbadosSheep

I was faced with a similar problem.....my sheep were terrified of the dogs. I have two Anatolian shepherd pups that are now 9 months old. I started out by kenneling them in a pen I built int he sheep's paddock so they HAD to get close to the sheep. When the pups outgrew the pen, they moved to the pasture next to the sheep's pasture. Then I started letting the sheep out for a few hours a day WITH the dogs, supervising everything. I did have to buy a shock collar for Eli because he wanted to chase the sheep (playfully....but the sheep didn't like it). I had to zap him just twice and there is no more chasing. Eli and Isaac are perfect gentlemen with the sheep. They follow them around, but do not run. they DO play hard with each other and the sheep now ignore them. the sheep are finally relaxed. My dogs are to the point that I can leave them unattended and it's working beautifully. It was a lot of hard work and took a lot of my supervision, but it was worth it.

Now lets address barking. Barking is what LGDs do. Pyrs are one of the worst about it....it's their guarding style. You can't teach them to not bark. Anatolians bark less....but they do bark too. Eli never barks, Isaac barks a good bit at night. He barks at every strange sound but quiets down quickly and quiets down if I tell him to. It's not nearly annoying as a poodle bark though. It's a very deep low loud bark. If there really IS something, the intensity of his bark changes so I know he means it. Otherwise, I usually just let him bark it out. He probably does annoy the neighbors at times, but they are also glad that he is on guard because he barks at strange sounds he hears at their houses too. If he hears a car door close next door after dark, he alerts to it. That's actually kind of a secure feeling! 

Do like Goatress said though and read through these threads. You will see the kinds of troubles folks had getting their dogs to the point where they are actually good LGDs. It's a lot of work but I am happy I made the choice.


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## CornerstoneAcre

Well, I'm certainly not an experienced LGD owner as we just aquired our first puppy and an adult male. But here is what we did and some info on our limited experience. The puppy is actually kept with the goats at all times (and has been since she arrived). She was born and raised with goats (we got her at 8 weeks). I'm not sure that is the BEST way to go (as puppies can be a bit to rough with kids), but the momma goats HAVE put her into her place more than once. I have one aggressive doe that has been kept seperate so far to protect both the puppy and my other pregnant does. The only things we made sure of was that the puppy had a place to escape from the goats and we have watched her closely and had to admonish her just a couple of times for "chasing" the baby goats. Great pyrenees learn FAST. The adult male is 3 and intact and was raised with sheep. He is really good and was also put in his place by my terrified goats. They were not used to dogs, but with his super calm and respectful attitude he is winning them over. He barks all night long sometimes (and howls). We do(did?) have a high concentration of coyotes around here. I have to agree that the bark however is not your ordinary annoying dog bark. It's so deep. Our Jack Russell and Border Collie are MUCH more annoying. And yes there is definately a difference in the barks. Even though we've never heard the puppy bark yet, the adult has a "hey come out and see me" bark and a "you don't belong here" bark and then there is the "you better get the heck out of here" bark. They are certainly distinctive. I DO shout out to him NO when I know he is just doing his "come out and play with me" bark. He is pretty good at quieting down then. 
I don't think I would put three dogs on your property unless you have extremely heavy predator pressure and poor fencing. Or a very secluded pature away from your homestead (not much human supervision type thing). My two will have only about a total of one acre to guard AND they are close to our house. Two would most likely be suffiecient depending on the previous factors. 
What do you mean they won't be able to roam? Do you just mean outside of your pasture? If so - that is fine. I really believe that is safer for the dog. If you mean that you will have him/her chained up within your pasture or something, I don't think that is a very good idea. It would be extremely hard for a LGD to do it's job tied up.
I doubt a GOOD LGD would prefer to leave with another dog and leave it's charges. My adult male does like playing with my (spayed) Border Collie, but he can't leave his fence and only gets to play when I bring her out there and I'm present. 
I don't know if any of my ramblings helped you out out not, but do your research in various areas and continue to ask questions. Research your prospective breeder and insist on getting a pup from working stock that has been raised with some sort of stock. Get references from people who bought from previous litters if you can. Remember AKC really doesn't mean much at this point in the game. There are AKC lines that are great I'm sure so I'm not bashing owners/breeders of working(or show/pet) Great Pyrenees. I'm just saying that the dogs I own as well as the 11 other Working GP that I know (at 4 different farms and from 6 different breeders) all ALL non-registered but purebred GP. 
Good luck in your endeavors!!


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## dbarjacres

Hi buddy! I'm browsing on here right now too, shhh, Darrin doesn't know, but just this week a guy 2 miles away had a wolf standing in his driveway driving his hounds nuts. He rallied the neighbors that hunt with hounds but they lost it. Of course because it's illegal to shoot wolves in WI, they were just trying to see what it looked like up close, lol. 

I'm really considering a dog for myself now too so browsing on here....


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