# Housekeeping Woes or Maybe what you really need is a new attitude...



## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

I have been wanting to write this for a while and with the house fairly quiet right now I may be able to gather my various thoughts together and write something somewhat sensible. 

So many, many times over the years I have been involved with these forums I find woman (more rarely men) who are overwhelmed with keeping up their houses and other homesteading chores. They have too much to do, their husbands don't help or appreciate their efforts, their children have to be coaxed, bribed or threatened into doing their chores. It comes to a boiling point and Mom explodes, or goes on "strike"... They wonder where it all went so wrong and what they can do to change everyone else. When in reality the change begins inside. There are a few ideas I hold dear, number one, Never, ever lie to yourself. You should always be truthful with yourself if no one else in the world. But I find more people lying to themselves than you would imagine. Number two, the only person you can truly change is you. You can talk until you are blue in the face and you will never change another person. I'll say it again, the only person you can change is yourself....

Let me tell you how I have always coped with life in general. I try to face the world with a happy and optimistic spirit. I find humor in the everyday experiences we all face. I look on the bright side, I never worry about things I can't change, I don't worry about what other people think, I don't worry about what other people do. The first thing I do when I wake up in the morning is thank God that I have another day of life. I get to try again! Every day that you wake up in fairly good health, in a bed with a roof over your head is a day that you are very blessed to have. That is how I start every day, being thankful that these very basic needs are met!

Honestly, I don't think most housekeeping/spouse/children problems are technical problems. I don't think the house is messy because it is too small, or too big, or there isn't enough storage space, or no one puts things away, or you have too much stuff. *It is messy because your heart isn't in it.* Isn't that the real truth? Think about it. If someone offered you ONE MILLION DOLLARS to keep whatever home you have RIGHT NOW in good order for one month, could you do it? I bet you would (and I am not much of a betting person!) but I bet you would jump up out of your chair right now and you would get busy. And you wouldn't stop until your house was looking pretty spiffy! So you can be motivated, can't you? But does it really take a million dollars to motivate you? 

As a Christian Mother and Wife, my primary motivation comes from God. There is a verse in the Bible that says something like, 'Whatever you do, do it as to the Lord.' When I am scrubbing and cleaning, I am not doing it for Cale or the kids or even myself, I am doing it for God. That is a pretty big motivator for me. 

The truth is that I am so thankful for the blessings that I have that I love to care for those blessings. I know some of you have traveled to countries where people live in awful circumstances. There are people who have no homes, no food, no clean water. They don't worry about doing laundry, they have none. I remember when I read in Laine's Letters about her sons going on a mission trip and giving away every item of clothing they had except what was on their backs because people were in such desperate need. And we have so much and complain about caring for it... 

Most people don't need a schedule, they don't need organization tips, they don't need more closet space, what they need to do is put their heart into their homes and approach the task like it is important and like it matters. There will be those who don't agree with me and that is OK, this is not for you. This is for those ladies who want to change and want to make their houses into homes. The simple truth is that you do have enough time, you do have enough space, you can be more organized, you can learn to keep a neat, tidy home (notice I did not say perfect!) and you can motivate your children and spouse. When they notice you have changed they will change too. 

I notice that people talk about their children not helping out. These are the same people who complain about doing household chores. I often wonder why they think that their children will be motivated to help with something that they think is so burdensome and awful! Sure your kids will be thrilled to help with the drudgery that you complain about all day long... right?

When my kids were small and I worked around the house I was happy, singing and talking to them. They wanted to be right there with me and when they were with me I was telling them how good it was to have hot running water to clean our house, and how nice that we had fresh vegetables in the garden because there were people who did not have much food, and how great that we had firewood to keep us warm in the winter. They were thrilled to help out because we were so blessed to have all these good things. 

You will find that as you change your attitude, everything will be EASIER. You will get up early with plans in mind for the day. You will look forward to getting things accomplished, you will take pride in a job well done. You will be relaxed and happier. Your husband and children will be happier. Your life will get better and better because you will feel better about yourself. You won't feel overwhelmed and incompetent, you will feel secure and empowered. You won't spend all your time fussing and worrying over all those things that you can't get done. Keeping your household functioning in an orderly way will give you more time for hobbies, for volunteering, for learning, reading, helping others, to spend with your children and family. You won't be tied to the house, you will actually have more freedom in the long run. But the only person you can change is yourself... Try it, approach the household chores with your heart in it. It will make a difference.


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

Thanks for the motivation, Melissa! I need a kick in the pants, and I think you just gave it to me! You are correct in all you said, and an inspiration to us all! I'm turning over a new leaf! Ok, a whole new tree! Jan in CO


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Melissa, well said!

I've been keeping a house clean, meals made, children taken care of, three husbands for almost 44 years now and my biggest question is how can a person NOT keep it clean and organized.

Oh, it's easy now because it's just Roger and I with one dog and one cat, but it wasn't always that way! Kids and friends and dirty floors. In-laws who didn't know how to take off their muddy shoes. I had one pack-rat husband. (I think he rents a warehouse to store his treasures now.) Been there, did that.

Maybe it's because I find it harder to look at dirt and clutter and mess than to clean it.


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## Wildwood Flower (Aug 26, 2006)

Hey Melissa, I think you're right. 

I rather enjoy keeping my house and making it pretty. I do it for myself, the way I like it done, but I enjoy the feeling when others walk in and feel happy and comfortable here--WELCOME! 

I guess for me it's my way of loving people. It's a quiet thing, but I do believe it has great value in life.

My mother elevated housekeeping to a fine art. And she had six kids and nothing new--ever! But her wealthier neighbors often came by to get decorating ideas, and everybody loved being at our house. It was warm and inviting....and reasonably clean. 

It's neat to see that my married daughter now keeps a cute house...reasonably clean. And she too enjoys the company of many friends. 

Hospitality is foundational to the Christian witness, IMO. And it begins with a happy home. I do believe that what most people want in life is a home and a family. 

If you have one, share it. Take the time to welcome others and serve them.

I agree, attitude is everything. I have had horendous thing happen to me, and I've never let them drag me down for long. I always look up, look for the good, look for the light, and begin moving in that direction.

I also agree, I am very thankful to have a roof over my head--I had to make it myself out of an old abandoned building, but you'd never know it now. It's nice, and inviting. 

Thanks for sharing your wisdom, Melissa.


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## bubbba (Jul 6, 2004)

Nice well written piece melissa. 
Im a bit of a slob but im gonna try n get a grip myself. Figure if a big fat hairy hippy dude like myself hangs around long enough some good will come of it 

Peace


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## FiddleKat (Oct 22, 2004)

Ardie/WI said:


> Melissa, well said!
> 
> I've been keeping a house clean, meals made, children taken care of, three husbands for almost 44 years now and my biggest question is how can a person NOT keep it clean and organized.
> 
> ...


You do mean three husbands at seperate times, not all at the same time! If so, you are a busy girl!!


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

FiddleKat said:


> You do mean three husbands at seperate times, not all at the same time! If so, you are a busy girl!!


I'm really good at multi-tasking  . Seriously, they were at separate times.


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## FarmGoddess (Sep 21, 2006)

Melissa, what medication are you on, because I really would like some.

Ya'll have to excuse me, I'm not from Stepford.....


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## thisoldspouse (Feb 11, 2007)

Melissa said:


> If someone offered you ONE MILLION DOLLARS to keep whatever home you have RIGHT NOW in good order for one month, could you do it? I bet you would (and I am not much of a betting person!) but I bet you would jump up out of your chair right now and you would get busy. And you wouldn't stop until your house was looking pretty spiffy! So you can be motivated, can't you? But does it really take a million dollars to motivate you?


I'm not trying to be pessimistic, nor am I trying to make excuses for myself, but if someone gave me a million dollars, you bet I could take care of my house better, because I wouldn't have to worry about working at anything but keeping my house clean!! Plus, I could buy myself a great new vacuum ...


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## heather (May 13, 2002)

Okay, since people have started disagreeing (just a wee bit  )
I will too! (just a wee bit  )

It's definitely possible to have too much stuff - we are living proof -

You are right about having a better attitude - but please tell us that you are not this peppy everyday


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

Hmmm...I really do need more storage space though! We have a little less than 500 sq ft right now for me (and the more pregnant I get, the more space I take up), my husband, a rambunctious dog, and two cats. I thought we would have moved by now. *grumble, grumble*

The one thing that makes me keep this place clean is the fact that if I don't I can't get from the stove to the bed. I have to keep our cupboards organized, because otherwise I would get bonked on the head every time I opened one. We keep cans of food that don't fit anywhere on the counters and in the linen closets, but everything in here stays pretty clean. There are things everywhere, but it is clean!

Kayleigh


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

FarmGoddess said:


> Melissa, what medication are you on, because I really would like some.
> 
> Ya'll have to excuse me, I'm not from Stepford.....


As I said, this may not be for you. If you are content with your home, spouse and children and don't have any housekeeping problems, keep on doing what you're doing. I am a real person, not a Stepford wife. I watched that movie and it bears no resemblance to my life. I have opinions, hobbies, interests, am passionate about many things and I can keep my house clean with a smile on my face, which is appreciated by those who live with me- Not the housecleaning, but the smile that is! Appreciating what I have makes me happy.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

thisoldspouse said:


> I'm not trying to be pessimistic, nor am I trying to make excuses for myself, but if someone gave me a million dollars, you bet I could take care of my house better, because I wouldn't have to worry about working at anything but keeping my house clean!! Plus, I could buy myself a great new vacuum ...


Ahh, but you don't get the million until after you keep the house clean for a month? 

Really, I understand that people have jobs, animals, messy kids, spouses etc... The point is, how does your attitude (if it is bad) help? Is the condition of your heart helping or hindering?


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

heather said:


> Okay, since people have started disagreeing (just a wee bit  )
> I will too! (just a wee bit  )
> 
> It's definitely possible to have too much stuff - we are living proof -
> ...


Well this is just me. I am not sure I would call it peppy. I am happy every day, I am content, I am pretty self-assured and confident. There is not much I am afraid to tackle. 

Sure it is possible to have too much stuff, but the stuff is not the REASON you can't do what has to be done.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

******* said:


> Hmmm...I really do need more storage space though! We have a little less than 500 sq ft right now for me (and the more pregnant I get, the more space I take up), my husband, a rambunctious dog, and two cats. I thought we would have moved by now. *grumble, grumble*
> 
> The one thing that makes me keep this place clean is the fact that if I don't I can't get from the stove to the bed. I have to keep our cupboards organized, because otherwise I would get bonked on the head every time I opened one. We keep cans of food that don't fit anywhere on the counters and in the linen closets, but everything in here stays pretty clean. There are things everywhere, but it is clean!
> 
> Kayleigh


I can tell your truthfully that even people who live in mansions do not think they have enough storage space. But my theory is that most people can get rid of half of what they own and not miss much of it. I read a quote once that said, "The quality of the trip oftentimes depends on what you can do without." If life is the trip, what can you do without to increase the quality?


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

Oh, for crying out loud. I don't think I've ever read anything more condescending.
Having issues with housework does not mean someone is a lazy grump. Nor does it mean they don't appreciate what they have, are not thankful for every moment of each day, resent their husband, or anything else.

LOL, Farmgoddess, ain't it.

I love how so often women decide to declare how much of a better wife/mother/worker/whatever they are than other women. Seems to me like maybe what YOU really need is a new attitude towards others...


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

jen74145 said:


> Oh, for crying out loud. I don't think I've ever read anything more condescending.
> Having issues with housework does not mean someone is a lazy grump. Nor does it mean they don't appreciate what they have, are not thankful for every moment of each day, resent their husband, or anything else.
> 
> LOL, Farmgoddess, ain't it.
> ...


It truly wasn't meant to be condescending. I don't believe I declared anywhere that I was better than anyone. I am just conveying what has worked for me. If something different has worked for you, please feel free to write about your experiences. That is what a message board is all about!

As I said, what other people do is not an issue to me, but I do care about those who struggle and many people have a very hard time coping with the daily household chores. It is a burden to them and it makes them very unhappy and hard to live with. If they can learn to change their attitudes about their chores, it will make their lives better. Much of life is spent doing things that aren't necessarily considered fun. Admittedly there are many more fun things to do than scrub the floors or keep the bathrooms clean, but most people feel that they should do these things once in a while, so why not approach those chores with happiness rather than do them begrudgingly? Why not teach your children that doing a job well is something of which to be proud? 

It doesn't affect my life if a person cleans their house or doesn't, or if they nag at their husbands daily about not helping out, or if they resent their children for not feeding the dog or emptying the trash, but I imagine it isn't much fun to live with them! Everyone gets to make choices about how they approach life, I prefer to look on the bright side and make the best of things.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

Haha, I think I made it sound like I have 500 sq ft of storage space. That is actually our living space; our kitchen, our bathroom, our bedroom.

We have found we can live without a lot of things, you're right. Right now the only things in closets or cupboards or on shelves are:

Books, we actually do read these. Books don't last long around here if we don't read them, and we read voraciously. Food, we have more food in our tiny apartment than most of my relatives that live in houses. Obviously I'm not sacrificing my pantry. And clothes. We DO have to get rid of some of these. Mostly a few tacky shirts that my husband is clinging to!! 

I love your attitude about cleaning Melissa. My attitude toward it isn't negative, but it is more of a "NEED to" than a "want to" for me. I can get into a mood where I want to get everything absolutely sparkling, but most of the time I just aim for not dirty!!

Kayleigh


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## Junkmanme (Dec 16, 2006)

My theory is to do one (only 1) room per day for one (only 1) hour until I get the clutter straightened up. No one else lives here except my dog. I do "pretty much" as I please. Been ill for the last 10 months and as a result, things have gotten a bit sloppy and cluttered. I can fix it and have fun doing it.....but I'm not going to go at it "like killing snakes". If I "get ahead of it" just a little bit each day.......it will get straightened up. (Besides, I do have other things that are equally worthwhile to get done.)

I like your attitude, Melissa, and I DON'T THINK THAT IT IS IN THE LEAST BIT *"CONDESCENDING"! On the contrary, I think it is an attempt to "help others".*

Good for you!  
Bruce


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

******* said:


> Haha, I think I made it sound like I have 500 sq ft of storage space. That is actually our living space; our kitchen, our bathroom, our bedroom.
> 
> We have found we can live without a lot of things, you're right. Right now the only things in closets or cupboards or on shelves are:
> 
> ...


Sure I agree with you 100%. There is no perfect standard, many household chores can be good enough (or not dirty!) and that is great. I really am not talking about the mechanics of household chores. You know, should I change the sheets daily, or scrub under the fridge once a month, stuff like that. I am talking about how you feel about what you do, whatever that standard is. My house is not perfect. There are people in and out of here constantly, we have three fires going and those who have wood heat know how much dust and dirt that creates. This is a real working homestead with a lot of action, not a picture-perfect magazine picture. We just try to make it a happy place and a good attitude helps.


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## thisoldspouse (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm with you, *******! I'll never claim to have a house so clean you can eat off the floors (although my dogs don't seem to mind) but I do aim for "not slovenly." The kitchen is my biggest concern always, so I try to keep it as clean as possible, taking it on right after dinner. I did find one cleaning trick that worked wonders: I told my husband he had two choices: hook up the dishwasher (after a year and a half) or start washing the dishes himself. The dishwasher was hooked up the next weekend ...


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Junkmanme said:


> My theory is to do one (only 1) room per day for one (only 1) hour until I get the clutter straightened up. No one else lives here except my dog. I do "pretty much" as I please. Been ill for the last 10 months and as a result, things have gotten a bit sloppy and cluttered. I can fix it and have fun doing it.....but I'm not going to go at it "like killing snakes". If I "get ahead of it" just a little bit each day.......it will get straightened up. (Besides, I do have other things that are equally worthwhile to get done.)
> 
> I like your attitude, Melissa, and I DON'T THINK THAT IT IS IN THE LEAST BIT *"CONDESCENDING"! On the contrary, I think it is an attempt to "help others".*
> 
> ...


Thanks, it was an attempt! I read a story once where a young boy wrote about Socrates. He said, "Socrates was a man who tried to help people. They killed him." LOL Some days are like that I guess... :help:


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## thisoldspouse (Feb 11, 2007)

"Some days you're the dog. Other days you're the hydrant."


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## FarmGoddess (Sep 21, 2006)

I will note that the original poster does not live on the Mississippi Gulf Coast and hasn't spent the last year and a half having to deal with hurricane debris, insurance companies, FEMA, and assorted other weirdness. Bet she didn't have her storage shed get picked up by a hurricane and come to rest 500 feet down the field. But I do run on. My house is somewhat cluttered because we're in the middle of a building project and I expect it to remain like this until the project is completed. Then I'll be able to turn the storage room back into a den/sewing room as it was originally intended. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not using the "Katrina" excuse. It's just that after surviving a major hurricane you sorta get your priorities worked out and have a tendency not to get all bothered about your husband leaving power tools on the coffee table or workboots in the living room. 

Besides, my silly doe just dropped a baby in the middle of freeze and along with the power tools, workboots, and assorted other stuff you don't expect to find in the living room, I now have a large rubbermaid container full of hay with a baby goat nesting in it.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

When you've picked up after some one else enough times, darn right your hearts not in it.
I'd rather be fishing!


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

FarmGoddess said:


> I will note that the original poster does not live on the Mississippi Gulf Coast and hasn't spent the last year and a half having to deal with hurricane debris, insurance companies, FEMA, and assorted other weirdness. Bet she didn't have her storage shed get picked up by a hurricane and come to rest 500 feet down the field. But I do run on. My house is somewhat cluttered because we're in the middle of a building project and I expect it to remain like this until the project is completed. Then I'll be able to turn the storage room back into a den/sewing room as it was originally intended.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not using the "Katrina" excuse. It's just that after surviving a major hurricane you sorta get your priorities worked out and have a tendency not to get all bothered about your husband leaving power tools on the coffee table or workboots in the living room.
> 
> Besides, my silly doe just dropped a baby in the middle of freeze and along with the power tools, workboots, and assorted other stuff you don't expect to find in the living room, I now have a large rubbermaid container full of hay with a baby goat nesting in it.


Sounds like you're doing the best you can. I do believe you are missing my point. No matter where you are starting from in your housekeeping endeavor if you have your heart in the right place you will find that it lessons stress tremendously. 

I find nothing offensive about a baby goat in a rubbermaid tub in a living room. Doesn't seem that would be something I would get upset about at all. As I said, I did not set any certain standard, each person gets to set their own. My standard will not be yours and yours may not be mine. 

I have been through the entire house-building thing, not in a hurricane of course, but we did have twenty six leaks in our roof one night. That was interesting! Cale and I built our own house, cutting logs with a handsaw when I was in my teens. We worked hard to accomplish that, so I know exactly how hard it is to build a house. I have helped Cale build many more also as he is a self-employed construction worker. I will say we built our house with practicality in mind, no carpet, access from the outside directly into the laundry room, special wood doors to minimize wood mess, etc...


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

I think some people are missing an important point. This post is intended for people who want to do something different, who see that what they are doing is not working and want to make a change.

_"...I find woman (more rarely men) who are overwhelmed with keeping up their houses and other homesteading chores. They have too much to do, their husbands don't help or appreciate their efforts, their children have to be coaxed, bribed or threatened into doing their chores. It comes to a boiling point and Mom explodes, or goes on "strike"... They wonder where it all went so wrong and what they can do to change everyone else. When in reality the change begins inside. "_

I did not say that everyone should keep a perfect house. That is not what this post is about, not at all. It is about becoming more content, maybe you do have to let things go a bit, maybe you have to lower your standards, maybe it means letting more baby goats in the house and laughing about it. 

I guess my valiant effort at conveying my true meaning is instead pathetic, but instead of reading this and going into a defensive mindset, read it and wonder if there is any wisdom there for you...


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

Melissa - you're so right. I know for one that my attitude stinks. I suffer from periodic bouts of depression that usually end up with my place looking like the aftermath of hiroshima. I admit I do take on a bit too much which doesn't help much - but I run arouund like an idiot all day - then collapse at night when I should be looking after our "home" which still isn't really. Maybe counting our blessings is the way forward - I found myself today yelling at my five year old. What had she done wrong ? Broken up a goat fight when I had asked her to fill water buckets. I was rushing (as ever) and instead of praising her for getting in there and doing what she has seen me do and prioritize, over and over, stopping one goat bullying another, I shouted at her for not doing what I had asked of her. No praise for using her initiative. No praise for putting the care of the goat first. Rage for holding us up by not having finished what I asked of her.

I suppose the same goes at home really - shouldn't make the mess a struggle, we should be grateful we have the children that make it, that we can afford the toys to pick up, and that we have the health and ability to care for it all.

Thank you for the kick up the behind - I doubt I have your depth of faith to back me up, but thank you anyway

hoggie


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Ahh, I think you really do have the faith. It doesn't take much, something about the size of a mustard seed...


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

Edayna, you're quicker than me! LOL


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Are you making fun of me? You can disagree without trying to hurt someone's feelings. I don't think I have ever delibertly hurt anyone's feelings on this forum.


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## heather (May 13, 2002)

I understand where you're coming from Melissa, but I also thought your post was a bit condescending -

This is why: essentially, you said, "ladies, you don't have any other problems except yourselves"

You have a helpful husband - not everyone does
You have a finished house (for the most part) - not everyone does

There are many many reasons why someone might be having trouble housekeeping - it doesn't always have to do with their attitude

I do understand that you were trying to help but I guess it won't hit some people that way

Speaking of a better attitude - I just got 3 books out of our church library that I hope will help me with a better attitude:

_Open Heart, Open Home: How to find joy through sharing your home with others_ by Karen Burton Mains

_Disciplines of the Beautiful Woman _ by Anne Ortlund

_A Wife after God's Own Heart_ by Elizabeth George


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## Queen Bee (Apr 7, 2004)

My mother's house was the cleanest, nicest house on the block, in our family and of our friend's. You could 'see' yourself in every surface, the floors were gleaming, windows sparkling, meals were served the same time everyday, your clothes were washed, ironed (including underware, sheets, pillowcases,dishtowels etc). Weekly she washed windows, scrubbed floors on hand and knees--w/a toothbrush around the baseboards, the kitchen and bathroom floors were mopped after every use w/ harsh chemicals, furniture looked brand-'spankin' new -no matter it's age. She had the same dishes, pots and pans for 60yrs. --with no chips, breaks etc. We had to use spoons to dig out weeds in the yard --not one blade of grass was out of line.. She looked just like Jackie Kennedy for most of her life-clothes,hair,shoes-perfect even while cleaning. We had to have inspection w/ our rooms, our bodies, our clothes...etc. before we were able to play. She never had time to visit our school, take us places, help us with homework, watch us play, NOTHING, she had no time for neighbors, friends or relatives who visited, called or dropped by and made 'fun' of them--always telling us "that's why their house is so dirty." 

Well, I want you to know clean isn't everything! Perfect is way down the line--and anyone who is ALWAYS happy with their children, husband, life,house,job has got to be on something or they are lying to themselves! 

My mother died a lonely old women with a clean house.There were no visits from old friends, relatives, not even her other children. There were less than a dozen people (including family) at her funeral--And I swear not one said "Oh, her house was soooo clean." Although, an old, old friend did make the statement that she could not beleive that my parents made use get down on our hands and knees and dig out the weeds in the lawn!

...Queen Bee


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

heather said:


> I understand where you're coming from Melissa, but I also thought your post was a bit condescending -
> 
> This is why: essentially, you said, "ladies, you don't have any other problems except yourselves"
> 
> ...


How do you think I got a helpful husband? How many years did I live in an unfinished house? I did not wait until everything was perfect to be happy! 

Sure, some people are ill, or have to work long, long hours, or have physical limitations, but for those to whom the post is directed( which I laid out in the beginning), a change in attitude will help. A person can either wallow in their misery, or they can make changes in how they think about it. They may never get their husband to change. What is the choice then? To just stay miserable?


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## chickenmommy (Aug 24, 2004)

I really believe part of the big mistake we make when we first start housekeeping with the man we think we want to spend the rest of our lives with is to try to be the perfect wife. We want to show them that we can do it all and be beautiful while we do it. Well, I watched my Father not even make himself a bowl of cereal. That's pathetic. I wouldn't allow that in my house. My S.O. cleans the kitchen after dinner if I am the one that cooked and I do if he cooked. He will throw a load in the washer if he notices there is laundry enough for a load. He vacuums. He does everything I do excepting the loaded diapers of my granddaughter. He calls me for that because of the amount of clean-up it entails and he just doesn't think he should be there that deep. He'll change a wet diaper though. He does all this because I never let him get away with not doing anything from the start. We have been together for 19 years and sometimes he makes me just so mad I could spit, but all in all he's a good person with faults like everyone else. My house stays clean and picked up except for the toys when the baby is here. I had a house fire back in 1990. The firemen said it was one of the neatest fires they had been to. I always keep that in mind when I leave the house for anything. Suppose I had a fire and came home to firemen in my house again. Would I be embarrassed? I strive not to, and not to have to run to clean up when someone comes over.


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## heather (May 13, 2002)

Melissa said:


> I have read those books, they say pretty much what I said!


Well, I caught that before you deleted it -

Maybe you should write a book?!


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Queen Bee said:


> My mother's house was the cleanest, nicest house on the block, in our family and of our friend's. You could 'see' yourself in every surface, the floors were gleaming, windows sparkling, meals were served the same time everyday, your clothes were washed, ironed (including underware, sheets, pillowcases,dishtowels etc). Weekly she washed windows, scrubbed floors on hand and knees--w/a toothbrush around the baseboards, the kitchen and bathroom floors were mopped after every use w/ harsh chemicals, furniture looked brand-'spankin' new -no matter it's age. She had the same dishes, pots and pans for 60yrs. --with no chips, breaks etc. We had to use spoons to dig out weeds in the yard --not one blade of grass was out of line.. She looked just like Jackie Kennedy for most of her life-clothes,hair,shoes-perfect even while cleaning. We had to have inspection w/ our rooms, our bodies, our clothes...etc. before we were able to play. She never had time to visit our school, take us places, help us with homework, watch us play, NOTHING, she had no time for neighbors, friends or relatives who visited, called or dropped by and made 'fun' of them--always telling us "that's why their house is so dirty."
> 
> Well, I want you to know clean isn't everything! Perfect is way down the line--and anyone who is ALWAYS happy with their children, husband, life,house,job has got to be on something or they are lying to themselves!
> 
> ...


That is sad. 

That doesn't describe me or my life though and it should not be the goal of anyone...


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## menollyrj (Mar 15, 2006)

I have to agree that attitude determines activity. That said, I decided long ago that there are a million other things I'd rather do than housekeeping. I don't enjoy it so I do it as little as possible. My house is cluttered and could use some organization & multiple storage totes. I accept this. DH deals with it. (He was warned before we were married that I was not a housekeeper and that I came from a long line of non-housekeeping women.) 

Instead of worrying about my decided lack of housekeeping ability, I accept that it is something I dislike and drive on. Of course I (& DH) wash dishes & clean bathrooms, but if the carpet isn't vacuumed once a week or the kids sheets aren't changed in 2 weeks, it won't be the end of the world. 

Melissa, I don't think you were condescending. I don't think your outlook would apply to everyone, but it may be helpful for some. If it is helpful, use it. If it isn't, ignore it. Too easy. 

-Joy


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

Melissa said:


> How do you think I got a helpful husband? How many years did I live in an unfinished house? I did not wait until everything was perfect to be happy!


Alright, see, you are missing the point. Some of us are hanging on by a shred, and such sanctimonious "I've always been happy, and it's all your fault if life isn't just what you expected" doesn't help.

But, you've not been in anyone else's shoes, so next time you think you can "help", then post something uplifting, funny, or even commiserating. Not something assumptive and snotty.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Well, I gotta go. I'm sure this will get interesting before I come back on Monday! Please know I intended it with the best of intentions and I hope that it can inspire a few and not make the rest of you hate me too much. LOL


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

menollyrj said:


> I have to agree that attitude determines activity. That said, I decided long ago that there are a million other things I'd rather do than housekeeping. I don't enjoy it so I do it as little as possible. My house is cluttered and could use some organization & multiple storage totes. I accept this. DH deals with it. (He was warned before we were married that I was not a housekeeper and that I came from a long line of non-housekeeping women.)
> 
> Instead of worrying about my decided lack of housekeeping ability, I accept that it is something I dislike and drive on. Of course I (& DH) wash dishes & clean bathrooms, but if the carpet isn't vacuumed once a week or the kids sheets aren't changed in 2 weeks, it won't be the end of the world.
> 
> ...


BINGO! Acceptance is the key. Accept what you can't change, change what you can and enjoy life. As I said orginally this post was for those who want to change something. If you are already happy with the way things go in your home, GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

forget it.


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

? where did all this come from? I'm starting to think I read a different post to everyone else. Maybe its a linguistic thing, but I didn't see anything condescending, critical, or snotty in the original post. If you think it doesn't apply to you, don't be defensive, just ignore as it obviously wasn't aimed at you in the first place. Lots of people can be helped by a few words, if you're not amongst them then that's you. But if Melissa wants to give free advice who is in a fit position to criticise that advice. 

thank you again Melissa for your post - 

hoggie


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## menollyrj (Mar 15, 2006)

jen74145 said:


> Alright, see, you are missing the point. Some of us are hanging on by a shred, and such sanctimonious "I've always been happy, and it's all your fault if life isn't just what you expected" doesn't help.
> 
> But, you've not been in anyone else's shoes, so next time you think you can "help", then post something uplifting, funny, or even commiserating. Not something assumptive and snotty.


All she's saying is that *to an extent*, you can choose to be happy or you can choose to be miserable. The difference is YOU. We all know that sometimes bad things happen beyond our control, but you determine your attitude when bad things happen. None of us have always been happy, but the times when I personally was the most unhappy were when I was in bad situations I had created for myself (namely, my first marriage). If you are hanging on by a shred, attitude may not change that. 

You are correct that attitude is not going to make a drastic difference when the world is crumbling around you. However, it would seem that the post was directed at those who just wish they had more help working towards a neater home, not those in dire straits (either financially, relationally, medically, etc...). It wasn't personal. Lighten up.

-Joy


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

heather said:


> Well, I caught that before you deleted it -
> 
> Maybe you should write a book?!


LOL, actually I'm too lazy to write a book, I'd rather read... and I pretty much have said everything I know about the subject!


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## weg (Feb 3, 2003)

Melissa, Glad to see you posting again,keep it up!! I miss reading your post.weg


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## midwsthomestead (Nov 8, 2005)

As has already been said in one way or another,I think the key here is that Melissa was addressing folks who ASK/VENT for help in this area--not every wife, but those that complain and whine and want to know the secret to homekeeping. If you ask for it, you're going to get answers you'll like and answers you don't like. If you're happy with how things are in your life, this post wasn't directed at you--that was clearly stated.

It seems that those that enjoy homemaking, have happy marriages, enjoy their children or other such positive things in life are dissed whenever folks ask/whine/vent and the happy folks give their answers. Seems to me like the folks that are making it work are the ones to take answers from, not those that commiserate and wish for better as well. 

If you're content with how you do things, this post made you go 'exactly'!. If you're not, it's still stinging and blustering about isn't changing anything at all.

~~


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

I think the point about approaching things with a positive outlook is a very good one, and one that is applicable to much more than just the subject of housekeeping. I think it is also important to acknowledge that just wishing something does not always make it so.

Neither my wife nor I are especially good housekeepers, we have known that from day one of our 23 year marriage. I could make up all kinds of excuses as to why our house is not perfectly clean all the time, but the truth is having a perfectly clean house all the time is simply not a priority for us. It does not effect our happiness when our house is not perfectly clean, and we most certainly do not care what anyone else thinks of our houses cleanliness. We are not concerned with keeping up with the Joneses in this regard. 

When I'm laying on my death bed ready to meet my maker, the last thing I'm going to be concerned about is how well I did with housecleaning over the course of my life, in the grand scheme of things, it is just not that big of deal.

With regards to the Lords judgement of how I lived my life, my guess is how clean my house had been is going to be way down on the Lord's list.  God is going to be far more concerned with how good of person I was, how I treated others etc.

Wayne


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## Mid Tn Mama (May 11, 2002)

Thanks Melissa for this post. I like to read your posts because you have experienced the family benefits that faith and hard work bestow. You are blessed and appreciate that. 

You turned me on to Laine's letters, which has been so enriching to me even though I am not in complete agreement with everything she does or believes.

But her posts, especially the one about thanksgiving, remind me where my heart should be and it isn't always.

I'm sorry Jen7451 that things are very difficult for you at the moment. I hope they can improve.

I guess it is a matter of viewpoint though. I know from years of reading Melissa's post that things haven't always been easy. It isn't easy raising four children on one income that often involves seasonal layoffs. To do what she has with what she has been given is amazing. I for one, want to hear how it is done so that I can learn from it.

I often post on the tightwad tips thread about saving money. Sometimes there will be criticism about how ridiculous or cheap the advice must be. But I often recieve pMs from people on disability or fixed income who must live in the extreme to survive. They don't find that advice sanctimonious, they find it helpful and tell me often. So again, its a matter of viewpoint. I keep plugging knowing that that thread is one of the most popular at the forum, so many people get something from it.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

rose2005 said:


> Everyone is different and that's what makes the world go round....some people find housework boring dull and not worth doing....some find it rewarding to have a clean home.
> I have always enjoyed seeing my home clean and looking nice....and I think because I enjoy it and am happy with getting a job done...my kids like to help and feel the same sense of achievement. They don't like seeing a mess any more than I do.
> 
> If you are unhappy about the way you do things...then change it. If you are happy about your life and the way you run a home then stay the same.
> ...


Great words, Rose! 

It's similar to what I told a whining friend once," If you don't like your life, change it. If you don't want to change it, shut up about it."

I thought about it after I posted before and I'll admit that the house got a wee bit messy when I was sick a time or two. But, after growing up in a house that was dirty, messy and disorganized, I caught up ASAP.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

As was stated, if you don't feel the post applies to you, ignore it. I've known Melissa for several years now, and I know for a fact that her life hasn't been "perfect", she just seldom complains. And she's NOT a "stepford wife" -- LOL! Gee, Melissa, run THAT past Cale and see what he says, hmmm?

I have been in the position of "hanging on by a thread". In one eighteen month period I built a house (living in an unfinished house sucks), watched my mother die of cancer, had a diagnosis of learning disability for my son, pulled my other son from public school and began to home educate, watched my brother struggle with colon cancer, saw my sister through a very trying time in her life, dealt with the possibility of MS in my own life, lost a job, lost a business, lost a dear, dear friend, lost my favorite uncle to cancer, had my two year old SUV die under me on a major highway (in heavy traffic) with my children in the back seat (one week after the warranty expired), and moved eight hundred miles to start all over again, after a six month separation from my husband (which almost became permanent because of the stress our relationship was under) while he started a new job in our new province while I stayed behind and got our house sold and the mess that had been our business dealt with -- oh, and almost ended up in litigation with a lying no-good real estate agent who tried to defraud us -- and was at the point of taking out a contract on a "friend" who decided to make my life even MORE interesting by being a complete jerk and stabbing me squarely in the back right in the middle of it all. 

My house still somehow managed to stay clean -- because THAT was important to me. I honestly believe that EVERYONE has these challenges -- EVERYONE has had times in their lives when they're hanging on by a thread. Everyone can relate. 

As Melissa said, it's a matter of attitude. If it's not important to you, then it's not (and therefore, this post was NOT directed at you). If it is, if you see yourself in this and want to change yourself or the way you're living your life -- what I think Melissa is saying is that your ATTITUDE is as important as any action you might take.


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

melissa,
thanks for your thought provoking perspective and insight.
--sgl


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

We all just need more handy tips on how to do all this house work. If we found ways to make it quick and easy , could be our attitudes could change and we might just get it done before it is too much to handle.
A while back i asked how to keep up the dishes. It's been some thing I have struggled with for a long time and we have added scratch cooking to the situation. While I still don't have it perfect yet, it is getting better. At leaste I don't enterly dread doing them any more.


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## MomOf4 (Jan 2, 2006)

Melissa - well written...the main point behind FLY Lady (FLY standing for Finally Loving Yourself). What you have written can help those who are at a point in life where they don't know where to start.

There are those who are born organized, and those who are not. I am not, but strive to be, and I usually miss the boat due to lack of time, or lack of time management - but as you said, I'm not trying to lie to myself - I could have cleaned the kitchen but instead I played solitaire for an hour, and I know that, and it was my decision - no lies there.

I struggle keeping a clean house with 5 children, a husband, and a business, but our house is lived in, not a show home. 

Everyone has their priorities, and way of doing things. That's what makes life so interesting - the differences in us all.


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## janandkenny (Oct 21, 2002)

I enjoyed your post Melissa. 

Yesterday I read proverbs 4 ( concerning wisdom). I then went and scrubbed the toilet ( not my favorite job) and while I was doing it I was thinking about my husband and how I get to stay home in a nice warm house ( yes I must feed the woodstove) and make dinner and sew curtains and care for our children ( five of them) and all the while he is out there, standing in knee deep snow, freezing his buns off so that he can provide for us. The least I can do is make sure that our home runs well. Thats my job, it is not always my passion, but it is my job. I am getting more organized as the years go on and he appreciates every bit of that.

jan


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Melissa, thank you for a great post. 

So often I have seen (online and IRL) women who feel their lives are out of control go on rampages where they insist the whole family pitch in and do some drastic cleaning. Usually these episodes are marked by rage, threats, and bewilderment from a family who has become quite content living amid chaos and doesn't see a burning need to change. 

Usually, the lesson the kids take away (sometimes courtesy of Dad) is that Mom is a tad unstable, but if we humor her for awhile, soon she'll run out of steam, and things will return to normal. Whew! 

Thus I'm not sure this is a terribly effective strategy ... 

Switching gears ... I think all do well to read a bit of Buddhist philosophy regarding quieting the mind and stilling desires. (I know it has stood me in good stead these past 20 or so years.) 

I think homesteaders run the risk of becoming a bit self-righteous in this regard because our wants are good wholesome things  not Prada handbags or big-screen TVs. But cows, chickens and cultivators can also be the subject of an improper attachment to material things. No?!


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## Songbird (Apr 2, 2006)

There are people that complain continually about their lot in life, have a negative attitude about everything. I see these kinds of people everyday in real life and on the internet.

Then there are people that have a positive attitude and make the best of everything and do as well as they can. I think that was what Melissa's post was about. I understand exactly where she is coming from. Those of you that are complaining simply have the negative attitude that I was speaking of above.

I have physical disability, one leg doesn't work properly, and a chronic illness to go along with that. I keep my house up the best that I can and the reason why I keep it nice is because I have PRIDE in it and in myself. My house is not up for anyone else's inspection or approval, but it meets mine and that makes me happy. I also look at my home, my DH, my kids, my GD and my animals everyday and feel so blessed and thankful for what I have. 

Melissa, I totally get your point and I'm sorry that some others here don't, but that's to be expected when you're dealing with negative people.


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

Your post was a good one, I also subscribe to the belief that joy and happiness are a choice. Even deeply depressed people, I am married to one, can come to realize that they can overcome these times in their lives once they recognize them with the right help. Dh has been in recovery from depression for 3 years and has gone with no meds the whole time after 5 years of changing meds!

I'm not a great housekeeper, it's not my gift, I admire those who can make it seem easy and I admire those who do it as a gift to their family!  I have also decided if the worst thing I ever do in my life is keep a messy house I think I may be ahead of the game!  Gosh can you imagine standing before the throne of grace and having that be the absolute worst thing you'd ever done???? I could live with that. But I know it's not! Believe me it's not! :help: I will admit to wanting to make dh see :stars: sometimes but I have changed my reactions to his actions in the way I deal with him.

We can not change someone else, we can change the way we react to them. We can change our attitudes and take another perspective when it comes to the things our children and our dh's do. Sometimes the changes we make will precipitate a crisis in the life of the people we live with, that's what happened with us. My moods, actions, behaviours are no longer contingent on the moods of my dh and it has indeed been a blessing. Do I still get mad about some of the things he does? You betcha, but my anger is my choice and so is what I decide to do with it. 

You made a great post Melissa :hobbyhors


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

I'm sure you didn't mean it, Melissa. But your post did sound 'holier than thou' ......... that's the problem with forums, you can only read the person's words, not their tone of voice.


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## ThreeJane (Nov 5, 2004)

I read somewhere that you can't control what people do to you, only your reaction to it.

I would say this post was about that. If YOU are feeling bad, YOU are feeling resentful, YOU are feeling put upon, YOU are being taken for granted...well, you can't change the people that are doing all those things to you. All you can do is change your reaction to it (or, as my dad likes to say, "You need to act, not REact")

I liked it. And yes, my house gets out of control and I realize that it's that way because *I* haven't been clear about my expectations.


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## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

Thank you for your post Melissa. Even as a messy housekeeper I take it as advice about being happy and content with what one does rather than always griping because of never achieving standards apparently not that important to one. I do really appreciate also the advice about how can the kids like doing/ be willing to do stuff we complain about- since while I am satisfied with my lackadaisical housekeeping sometimes I think I ought to try to instill higher standards and abilities in my daughters. So had better be sure to adjust my behavior about the things I want them to develop as habits, and be certain which habits I am willing to do the work /attitude shift about in order to help them develop.


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## Country Lady (Oct 2, 2003)

Thank you Melissa for your original post. I tend to somethings forget all that I've been blessed with, when I get overwhelmed with all the things I have to do. Your post has helped to put my thinking back in the right perspective.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2007)

Good grief..

I have no idea why anyone would take offense at hearing that somebody else is happy all of the time..How is that not to be believed? I also wake up every single morning and after thanking the Lord for another day, I spend it with a smile on my face. Are there things which may arise and change that smile into tears? Of course..but not often..many people who post here have enormous personal difficulties in their lives, including me. Yet it is apparent that MANY people post openly about how ill-used they are by either their husbands or children as far as doing household chores. I agree with Melissa 100% ..if people seriously want those situations to change, the change has to begin with themselves.

We ALL make choices in our lives..every single day. Does it matter one bit if your home is a pig pen? Not to me, I'll never see it. Some families don't care if laundry is piled up in the middle of the floor every day..nobody is unhappy..great, wonderful and hooray. Yet for those folks who are unhappy and don't know how to make the situation any different, Melissa has solid advice to share. A person can clean a toilet with an attitude of "I'm a victim" and be miserable, or they can clean it while CHOSING to have a smile on their face. That person radiates a good attitude in their home. As a wife and mother, what kind of attitude do you wish to radiate? 

In my own home, household chores were done with smiles and singing too..and everyone pitched in to help..why? Because I made it FUN. 
I see nothing "holier than thou"..when someone has knowledge of what works, why not share that knowledge? Nobody is forced to adopt the suggestions given..


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

I would add in here that there are also many reasons for feeling negative about things. I was abused for a large part of my childhood and could feel no pride in anything until my daughter was born (and she is everything to me). My main reason for wanting to make things nice is for her, I want her to grow up not thinking that the lack of control is normal. But even when I get it right for a spell, I can't take any pride in it because I know that it won't last because I just haven't got what it takes. Therefore the housework carries all sort of negative thoughts because I want to get it right for her, but feel nothing once it's done.

hoggie


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## organicfarmer (May 11, 2002)

Melissa,

Thank you for the reminder about my heart. Life has been somewhat challenging since we moved to a new community. You are entirely correct about one's heart and are we "doing as unto the Lord". Your post was not "pathetic", but inspirational. Those who choose to be negative about it are missing the point. If has made me reexamine what I am doing in my own home. Thank you again.


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## MelissaW (Jun 18, 2003)

Seek joy. It's my mantra. I understand the point of looking for the joy in every task. I can't say I always find in when I'm housecleaning, but I try!  

Some days I'm just tired though, and no amount of attitude adjusting is going to get me scrubbing floors, so I wander outside for a walk or sit down on the couch with a good book and watch the dust and dog hair pile up around me with joy in my heart.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> As was stated, if you don't feel the post applies to you, ignore it. I've known Melissa for several years now, and I know for a fact that her life hasn't been "perfect", she just seldom complains. And she's NOT a "stepford wife" -- LOL! Gee, Melissa, run THAT past Cale and see what he says, hmmm?
> 
> I have been in the position of "hanging on by a thread". In one eighteen month period I built a house (living in an unfinished house sucks), watched my mother die of cancer, had a diagnosis of learning disability for my son, pulled my other son from public school and began to home educate, watched my brother struggle with colon cancer, saw my sister through a very trying time in her life, dealt with the possibility of MS in my own life, lost a job, lost a business, lost a dear, dear friend, lost my favorite uncle to cancer, had my two year old SUV die under me on a major highway (in heavy traffic) with my children in the back seat (one week after the warranty expired), and moved eight hundred miles to start all over again, after a six month separation from my husband (which almost became permanent because of the stress our relationship was under) while he started a new job in our new province while I stayed behind and got our house sold and the mess that had been our business dealt with -- oh, and almost ended up in litigation with a lying no-good real estate agent who tried to defraud us -- and was at the point of taking out a contract on a "friend" who decided to make my life even MORE interesting by being a complete jerk and stabbing me squarely in the back right in the middle of it all.
> 
> ...


If anyone thinks that my house has always been organized and dustfree, realize that we've been remodeling this old farmhouse as we go. Ever try to keep a house clean when the bathroom is being gutted? Or the kitchen? When the office was gutted out along with a stairway, I thought I'd never see the end of the dirt and mess.

But, I kept plugging at it. I never allowed it to overwhelm me.


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## connie in nm (May 11, 2002)

I agree with you 100% Melissa. When my children were very young and I was still working full-time, I would want my husband to help and it caused a few disagreements.

For the last 15 years or so, I have been a stay-at-home mother/wife. During that time, we got completely out of debt. I now work very PT. I enjoy keeping my house, because I want it to look nice. We are remodeling and with all the hard work my husband puts in, I am taking care of it. He can do anything, and is doing a fabulous job. 

Attitude is everything and above all I am grateful for all the blessings I have.


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## Cashs Cowgirl (Jan 26, 2006)

I loved your post Melissa...thank you for writing it.


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

Do I have some thoughts on this one??Lots & lots!!

I am Retired, after 43 yrs. of punching a clock. 
Yes, I get a retirement check.............
And, I am home, All the Time.
DSW is a bit younger, 12 years.
She works every day, 8 hours, at a job.
And she is # 5..............Whoo-oo--oo baring my heart here.
And, I loved each of my wives. A couple were mistakes.
But I always treated them Well. I never learned to Hate anyone,
EVER! I am still Friends with all my Ex's. I could have coffee,
with any of them, if their Hubbies didn't mind. And they don't.
I am known as an "Honorable Man". And, proud of it..............

The Thing is, I grew up the oldest of nine, 7 DB's 1 DS.
I learned to clean, cook & maintain......
Nope, DaD never helped much, although he could.
So, I always helped out with house work. It is what I learned.

When DW #1 left me with the 5 kids, I just took over an extra job.
As well as working full time and playing music, on the side........
I managed the house. I can do it all..............

At about that time, my Church turned it's back on me.
Guys, you only have to do that to me once.
I left it and never went back. I'm not Anti-Church.
I'm still religious............Just not christian.
I'm Heathen or pagan, if you will. I have found other Gods.

What I'm saying here is...... 
"Some Folks take a Joy in the Work!" what ever it is.
I guess I do. I love to clean up a Kitchen & see things "Sparkle".
I like to clean the Windows & see them "Shine".
I don't need "Inspiration". I guess I have it in my Heart.
Now, I'm Not Meticulous.......I just Like things "Tidy".
I let it all build up a little bit.........
So as I can see what I've Done. You know??

Yes, DSW appreciates me. All my wives have.
I can cook with the best of them. And, I love doing it.
I Love the Doing. And I Love Savoring the Fruits of my efforts.
I also Love the "Approbation", I gain.
I cook & DSW Sharon straightens up the Kitchen. 
If she falls asleep & leaves it. I do it b'fore I go to bed.
And, she makes me feel good, with the "Thanks! Hon!"

I am a lucky lucky man.
I can whistle & sing, whilst I'm mucking out the barn
or raking the yard, or mowing.
It makes me feel great to look at it done.

Don't Y'all get that same Feeling?
Doesn't it make you just want to jump & sing, to
be Doing things, Productive things?
Shoot, maybe I'm different, just Wierd or Something.

The way I feel.............Life is GOOD!
I don't mind sharing the Work, with someone I care about. 
It's Fun.
I guess if I were the only one, and it all got piled on me.....
I might think a little different. But my wives have all been 
appreciative. It make things go Smoother.
Yeah, I guess I enjoy being a "Spoiler", too.
Proud to be "Who I am".
Just............Old John


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## SunsetSonata (Nov 23, 2006)

Alright, I just have to stick up for Jen here. Jen started her own thread about feeling overwhelmed at home. Her husband promised to help pitch in, and then made things worse by 1) not pitching in, 2) not even picking up after himself, 3) added even more stress by trying to guilt his wife. End result is 4) he broke his promise, has no intention of helping, and has minimized Jen's feelings and concerns. 

Right after that thread is locked, along comes this post. How is Jen supposed to take that? There are good, solid points in this post - ultimately you can't change another person, a great attitude works wonders, and raising responsible, helpful children starts early. Good stuff. And with these good points, judgements. I suspect that Jen is not able to slap a sincere smile on her face as she continues to pick up after those who should be picking up after themselves. And when the problems are deeper than housekeeping, I don't think she should be judged for her own attitude when her husband's attitude seems to be the primary problem. Jen may have not been mentioned in the original post, but again, how is she supposed to take it when someone starts pontificating about how women have no excuses for poor housekeeping, if they're really that unhappy about the state of their home? How can she not take that personally?

A good attitude can uplift the entire family. And a bad attitude can bring everyone down. And sometimes it's a struggle to have a good attitude when you turn to your significant other, asking for very little (release the dirty shirt in your hand into the hamper rather than onto the floor), and he flatly dismisses your concerns. In this case, a "good attitude," doing the extra work anyway with a smile on your face, would reward bad behavior. You don't tolerate that with a child - why would anyone tolerate that with a grown man? It's true, you can change your own attitude - in her case I would run the household best she can while not doing the extra work her husband causes by not picking up after himself. No reason for HER to get upset if she does the laundry from the laundry basket, and not the dirty clothes her husband apparently stores on the floor for future use.

Anyway, I feel bad for Jen, not just for her frustrating situation though. The timing of the advice here does appear to have been spawned by her issues, which are a little deeper than getting housework done, even if the advice was influenced by others' housekeeping problems as well.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

I'm arrogant and condensing enough to be pleased with the idea that I get Melissa, but she would have great difficulty in getting me  I respect, and admire her enough to even find the excuse that I've lived a few more years then she has...and if I allow myself to envy her seemedly closer to perfect, husband, children, friends, family, housekeeping skills, etc. then my own...I also allow myself to think of her and her life as being more sheltered and protected then some. 

That being said, I gotta share she is totally correct in her original post, with the single exception that by responding to some of the the other posters she's proven that she does care what others think 

Keep up the good work Melissa, you set great examples and your results are to be admired.

Oh, and you might be wrong about one other thing, I think if you print out your nearly 17,000 post and edit them down to just ideas on how you manage your life you will indeed have a great book 

Hugs
Marlene

Edited to add a William F. Buckely, Jr. quote: "Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality the cost becomes prohibitive." That sorta covers all the bases don't you think?


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## patnewmex (Aug 11, 2006)

This has been one of the most interesting threads on this forum in a long, long time. It seems with almost every thread, there is "thread drift" and often the posters original message is blurred along the way. Certainly if anyone goes to the original post, they will find nothing holier than thou or condescending in it at all. Melissa's message should stand out like a beacon. 

I am not a christian nor religious in any way. I am an agnostic. And I work and have a long commute and thus have to take care of the decrepid old trailer I live in on the weekends. My weekends are spent cooking and cleaning and very little time is spent on what I want to do. I don't have the luxury of staying at home and not working, or even working from home. I only have hot water in one faucet in my entire home and that means dishes are done by hand after we have filled a 5-gallon bucket in the bathroom with hot water and carried it to the kitchen sink. If it is cold out-the regulator for our propane tank freezes and one of us has to stand outside and pour water on it while the other person waits for the pipe to unfreeze so we can GET hot water. Same for showers. It's a hassle. 

Yet, I love that I chose this lifestyle. My cruddy trailer is PAID FOR and I have only 3 years left on land payments. I live in the high-mountains of New Mexico and love it. Under these conditions, Melissa's message stands out loud and clear to my ears and my brain. Attitude is everything. Attitude won't clean your house, but it will make you a happier person, no , not a harpie. 

Some of you really have a bee in your bonnet and you know who you are. Take a chill pill and come back to this forum when you have something that isn't nasty or condescenting to say. This is not that type of forum. (Some of the folks who think Melissa's message was condescending are doing the same thing to her. :nono: Kettle...black. Get it?)

Melissa, I hope you consider writing that book, and also let the angry, childish words of others on this forum fall off away from you like water on a duck's back.


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## Cindy in NY (May 10, 2002)

A good attitude can help you with far more than housework. It can help when you are in a job you hate, when you think your spouse isn't listening, or when you are seriously ill. 

I appreciate your message Melissa and I think it was a good response to all the posts we have had lately regarding women who are having trouble with housekeeping, spouses, or children. A good attitude can help with all of these problems. It may not be the full solution but it would certainly help.


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## tinetine'sgoat (Aug 4, 2005)

Yowsers! I'll start with, I agree with Melissa's post. I do not keep a perfect house, but it is never filthy. I used to get all up tight when my house was less than wonderful. Always picking things up, constantly running through my head "What if someone comes by and sees a dirty dish...OH NO!!!" Then my dh started to help me realize that there is more to life than an immaculate house. So I had to find my happy medium. I can't stand for the house to get overly cluttered. And generally it is well kept. But I finally decided that the dishes will wait another hour to go read books to the kids. The carpets can have a few dust balls if it is a beautiful day outside. I found where I was happy which I think is what Melissa is getting at. We turn on music and all pick up together or make it a race against the microwave timer which the kids love. They don't see me being obsesive over it anymore and don't go into a panic if they drop something or spill something. 

I just had to find my happy place and quit refusing to look at the map to get there.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Old John, I enjoyed your thoughts. That is pretty much how I feel.

Marlene, I don't really understand the idea that I live a sheltered and protected life. I have problems just like everyone else does. My kids get sick, people I love have died, I have bills to pay, children to raise, people I love are struggling, my childhood story would give most people nightmares. I guess I have Cale and that says a lot. When I think about being married to him the best I can describe it is that it has been a privilege to share my life with a man like that. I never will know what I ever did to deserve that kind of single-minded devotion. But still life is not always easy...

Another person posted about someone else who started a thread about the husband not helping out etc... My post was not directed at any one poster. I rarely recall who wrote what, my post was a response to an air of general discontent I have sensed on many forums I visit. I have written very similiar posts in the past, but won't take the time to research those out at this time.

As I said, if you are content with the running of your household, this post is not for you. I never said anywhere that you had to do X-Y-Z or the clean police will come knocking, that is not what this post is about. It is about changing the condition of your heart and finding that a new attitude will make life better. 

I keep my house in decent shape. Sometimes there are cobwebs and dust, sometimes the floor is tracked with snow, people traipse through from the horse barn with mud on their feet and prop their boots up on the coffee table, that is OK with me though because the house is to live in and enjoy. 

I have read my post over and can't even begin to see any holier-than-thou attitude. I wrote it in the kindest way and meant it only to inspire those who want to make a change. I guess we read in our own voice and I know my voice and some of you all don't. Even after all of these forum years I am still often blindsided by the twists and turns a post can make. It seems like people take things you did not say and make that bigger than what you did say. That can be perplexing!


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

I work two jobs. I leave the house at 7:15 and get home at 6:45. I don't have a lot of energy when I get home.
My solution? Relax my standards. Hit what's essential (for me) and don't worry about what doesn't get done. I'll never meet up to Martha Stewart's standards, but I don't worry too much about it. My daughter does her part and we manage just fine.
When I've fostered small children there's been more clutter, but all in all, it's just not a big deal for me. The house is usually cluttered, but not too terribly dirty - and that's all I really need.


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## homeacremom (Jan 13, 2007)

Right on Melissa! Clean and happy or challenged and happy... either one works!


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## valgal (Dec 24, 2002)

I don't love cleaning but I also don't work hard enough at it because I am working elsewhere. That said, I do agree with Melissa's post and I do love my family so I do the best I can. We are all happier when the house is clean and organized and that is always my goal.

Valgal


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## Hip_Shot_Hanna (Apr 2, 2005)

edayna said:


> YOU CANNOT MAKE A PERSON CHANGE.
> 
> Give me a break.



Certainly true. However, I believe Melissa was talking about changing one's self. Not someone else.

One can only change one's own outlook and attitude on life. There are choices. When you can't make big changes, you can make little ones. If you can't change your house, then make do and be happy you have a house. If the roof leaks, and you can't fix it, then catch the water and water your houseplants.

I'm really sorry to see that some folks got so angry about what Melissa posted. I honestly think that she's pretty much spot on. 

Change what you can, ignore what you can't. And just in case someone accuses me of not having gone through hard times so I can't possibly understand as Melissa has been accused, please. You can't know that. If I don't choose to air the troubles of the past, and choose instead to share what I know helps me, then that doesn't make what I share either snotty or condescending. 

If it doesn't help you, then move on. But quite a few have posted that the message was just what they needed, so it's obviously not a post without value. 

As a small example.. my husband is very untidy. I do mean very untidy. I pick up after him all the time, collect coffee cups, pick up trash that just falls to the floor, vacuum up after him etc. I could choose to be upset and irritable and mad about it all the time. In my younger years I probably would have been exactly that way, and griped about it all the time.

It Does Not Matter. Honestly, it doesn't. Yes, occasionally I mutter under my breath about something. But he's so good and generous and loving and hard working.. it's a minor foible. He isn't this way just to annoy me. It's more of an absent minded professor kind of thing I think. He will tidy up from time to time - when it's on his timetable. 

I can have a bad attitude. Or I can have a good one - one that tells me that he's the love of my life and I'm blessed to be able to live and love with him. I choose the latter.. and I'm happy. 

It's not about perfection. My house might not be tidy enough for Melissa. It's tidier than some I've seen. It's tidy enough for me most of the time, and if it's not, then I put some effort into it. (I admit I rarely dust.) Yesterday you could have eaten off my kitchen floor. Today I wouldn't advise it, it's been walked on...


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Edayna, 

You sound awfully jealous to me.

Just an observation. :shrug:

Hope you find something that works for you.


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## caroline00 (Nov 10, 2002)

I am at least temporarily closing this thread. After a cooling down time, it might be reopened.


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## caroline00 (Nov 10, 2002)

we've had a lot of complaints on this thread. Not complaining about the subject matter, nor the opinions posted but rather about the disrespect shown. I want you to be able to express yourselves on this issue but please keep personal respect in mind.


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

heather said:


> I understand where you're coming from Melissa, but I also thought your post was a bit condescending -


I dont believe for one minute that Melissa has a single condesending bone in her body. No one will ever convince me that she does. I belive Melissa is one of the few sincere christains I have ever known. I believe her only motivation for this thread is to help. I dont think there is anything wrong with constructive critism. I think she is telling us we can to choose to be happy every day regardless of the workload, and with that choice our daily challanges become more enjoyable. 

Short of a natural disaster we all can prioritise our daily chores, get done what we can, enjoy our accomplishments, and quit stressing.

I spent a year in anger management to learn Melissa's advice. I enjoy reading her posts. I enjoy some strong constructive critism. When I hear it the first thing I do is look inside myself to see if the problem is really cause by me, and try to decide what I can do to change ME. I dont get defensive.


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## jimarh (Feb 21, 2005)

My mother used to say that her house was clean enough to be healthy and messed enough to be comfortable to live in and I follow pretty much the same idea.
I keep the laundry done, the kitchen clean and dishes washed, and things usually picked up. I am not good about running the sweeper or dusting any more often than is absolutely needed.
I am a better housekeeper in the winter than the spring, summer, or fall. Those seasons I cannot stay indoors unless I am canning - other wise, I am out in the woods, garden or with the animals.
Of course, I have to admit that the house would be cleaner if I could stay off this homestead board !!


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## mamalisa (Feb 1, 2004)

I'm usually the grouch on these threads, and you know what? Melissa is right. I can go out to milk the cow at 5 am and it is freaking freezing cold, and I'm singing. Why? Because I have a cow. And when I'm tearing across the yard, all too many pounds of me in a 100-yard dash because my neighbor left the gate open and the cow is headed for it, well....I have neighbors who show up at 630pm on a November night to help put the hog fence back up and the darn hogs in it. So everyone messes up. I know I do. So do you. Get over it.

I have learned through numerous disasters, several abusive husbands(never said I was smart!) and 3 kids that guess what....I choose how I feel. If you can't stand something about your messy husband, stop and think how you would feel if he landed under a bus right now? Would you still be mad about clothes on the floor?

Just assume, for one minute, that you are right and your husband or wife is deliberately dumping stuff on the floor to make you mad. NO-ONE can MAKE you anything. YOU and only YOU choose how to feel about clothing on the floor. So.....what if it doesn't make you mad? What will he do then? AND maybe even more important, what exactly is going on that 2 people who promised to love and cherish each other are trying to make each other angry?

YMMV


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## happycat (Dec 22, 2003)

I have been reading this post and all the replies, and really hesitated to say anything before. I sat down to it for the first time after spending time - by myself - cleaning my house while my dh & ds were away doing something fun. Again. This post could not have come at a better time. 

I realize that I am the one who makes such a fuss that the house is cleaned this way or that way. It's not them, I'm doing this to myself!

I never, ever believed that Melissa was trying to be condescending - I don't think it's in her nature. I truly believe it can come down to your attitude. I was given a book many years ago titled "Simple Abundance". In this book we are reminded to be greatful for what we have (at least that's what I took from it). When I am grumbling about cleaning the muddy footprints off my floor for the 3rd time that day, it helps to realize that I chose to adopt these dogs, who have chance to go play in my fenced back yard, who are happy to come back inside my house to see me when I called. I am pysically strong enough to get down on my hands & knees and clean those muddy paw prints. I am fortunate - and yes I do have my struggles (often!) but when I step back and think about the good things in my life it makes a big difference.


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## NCGirl (Jan 5, 2006)

This is a subject that hits close to home for me!

I don't think anyone can imagine how demorolizing it can be to live in a house where your spouse/SO treats it like a garbage bin. My ex was a person of clutter. He had papers/bills/stuff that would pill up 3 or 4 feet high. His messyness knew no bounds. I once had back surgery and was in the hospital for a week and then in a rehab facility for 3 more weeks. When I got home there house was a diasaster. He had always been messy, but without me to be there to pick things up it had gotten horrible. I took some pictures because no one would believe how bad things could get in 1 month. 


























Also, He had not washed ONE plate, bowl or pot for 4 weeks. He had started to get take-out and left lots of the takeout containers and bags laying about. He had not cut the grass, as you can see in this picture.

The dust is actually thick as he would let his dogs run circles around and around the house till their was a path of dirt and he would leave the windows open. You could actually see a cloud of dust in the house at times if the light was just right. I tried everything I knew to get him to help out around the house over the years, But it was :bdh: 

It was not at that moment when I came home still in pain and in a wheelchair from my surgery to find the house and yard like that he became my ex, but it was probably the end of the end. I admit I kinda snapped to think he allowed the house to get so bad. He knew I would clean it up when I got back on my feet, so to speak. He laughed it off and said, "gosh, you know I meant to clean up before you came home, sorry". :flame: He was such a sweet guy in so many ways but the resentment of having to go behind someone day after day after day while getting no appreciation is very is disheartening. I worked 40-45 hours a week and had a long commute. Then I would come home to a disaster and have another job cleaning up behind someone else's mess. Now, I still work a 40-45 hour week with a 8 hour commute and now my house is pretty much spotless. I am no longer afraid that someone is going to visit. I can keep my house clean and tidy in a couple hours a week including laundry instead of 15-20 hours a week. Perhaps someone can tell me what I could have done differently :shrug: This man was untrainable IMO.

Yes, you can only change yourself and your attitude, I agree with that. Or, you can get rid of the problem.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

Melissa, when you talk about your siblings, and your husband and children, I get the impression that you've always had someone who deeply cares about you and your well being, that's what I thought of when I mentioned you having a secure and protected life. In no way did I mean to infer that you were somehow protected from life in general. 

As you seem very much aware, knowing you have others to love and care about and to know they love and care about you makes all the difference in the world, right? So, your knowing you can depent on Cale, your siblings, and your children to be there for you in a loving and supportive manner can relatively be seen as having a sheltered and protected life especially if you are someone who has had to live without those things, right?

Hugs
Marlene


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

I do understand that Marlene, the initial post was confusing to me. 

I do love my family, despite their faults. They have all had many trials and done things that others may not have forgiven them for. My brothers have had trouble with the law, been in jail, one brother almost killed someone had to serve some time in prison and take anger management, my other brother has had awful problems with alcoholism, my sister left her husband for another man, leaving her children with her ex in bad living conditions. Yes, these things made me angry but I chose to maintain a relationship with all of them even though they did things that I would not do. They always knew they could call me day or night and I would do whatever I could to help them. 

Right now they are all doing so great, I am very proud of all of them, it is amazing how they have turned their lives around. When Cale and I first married he had many anger issues, we had our trials, but I stuck with him because I knew in my heart that he was the man I was supposed to be with. I know some people are a bit skeptical about me saying that I felt God told me that he was the man I was supposed to marry, but I think He told me that because He knew there could be tough days ahead and I might question my decisions. But that day when that voice flashed in my head kept me going when many others might have given up. No, life has not always been perfect or easy for me, when I was a child, the oldest of four I always made sure I came in the house first in case our Mom was laying there dead. Having an alcoholic father makes you wary that way. I could have become quite an angry and bitter person, but I chose to be happy, content, to forgive and love, to try to have empathy and understanding for others and to put myself in others shoes as much as possible. 

I realize this is off-topic for which I aplogize, but I feel some people have misconstrued my motives. I don't believe it is good to over-explain, suffice it to say I have lived through the hard times and I am not naiive enough to believe there will never be any more. When they come I will face them with as much good-will as I can muster and I will never believe that a muddy floor is the biggest problem I can have in life!


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## trixiwick (Jun 9, 2004)

OK, I'm going to shock everyone and put on my compassionate hat today. Dang, it doesn't even fit anymore. :Bawling: 

If you have a loving husband and you are able to stay at home to take care of the house, I could absolutely see how simply changing your attitude about the work could transform the experience of keeping a house - from a chore to a privilege. For working women, and for women whose husbands are thoughtless pigs, I think it's tougher to put the spin of "privilege" on the experience. 

I am well aware that I am fortunate to have a great DH who pulls his own weight around the place, and who when I ask him to do/not do something, listens and does his best. But I am well aware that in many relationships, this is not the case, and the husband is often actively hostile to and disrespectful of his wife's efforts. What's the use in trying to put a smiley-face spin on that? That's just a raw deal, and I have no doubt that it's not just about dirty socks.

People, even women, have the right to feel upset when they are ill-used, and I don't think there's anything admirable about sucking it up and believing it's God's plan for you. I think it needs to be a balance between improving your attitude (being grateful for what you have and learning to take real pride in caring for it) and standing up for yourself (insisting that your husband and kids not trample over you as if you are a worthless slave). Those who are struggling with this have my sincere sympathy.


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## rockinl (Mar 23, 2006)

When I read Melissa's original post, I loved it. It was a great inspiration to me. I benefit from hearing someone who is doing well tell me about it. 
I have told my children a million times, " your mother's voice is what runs through your brain telling you what to do." If noone tells you to wear clean underwear in case you get in a wreck, or to close the door you are letting the flies in, or to get your elbows off of the table, why would you? We have to be trained in some things. We can train some of our thought processes, too. We can train ourselves to be joyful when it might not be our first inclination.

I think some of the posters are in pain (they have recently reached out for advice on these same topics) and it hurts them to hear the testimony of someone whose heart is happy. They are wanting some commiseration. 

I really appreciate being told what has made Melissa and her family happy. I can visualize her reading some of the recent posts as cries for help and sincerely responding with genuine good wishes for them. She feels successful in her role as a wife and mother, and is confident in her ability to convey some of the reasons for her successes. She seems completely aware of our ability to filter out what may not apply to our situations and probably expects us to do so. 

Melissa, thank you for being part of the "soundtrack in my head". I find your thoughts a good thing to inspire me as a wife and mother.

Have a great day, Kimberly


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## Irene texas (May 10, 2002)

Well, I hate housework, its a" eternal" over and over again and is so boreing. Clean it today and then clean it tomorrow again. After being married for 58 years and cleaning the toilet thousands of times, I can think of a million of things I would much rather be doing. And cleaning the toilet now is even more difficult as I am stiff as a board from old age. And by the way when do woman retire? Should not we also be able to retire from the drudgery of housework,. Sorry but I worked out side of the home for 30 plus years. Loved working at the a office. Got to go out for lunch with the girls, shop for pretty clothes. And I hired someone to clean my house once a week. There is some of us that are not cut out for housework. I find I become very mean after scrubbing away for hours. I much rather now in my late seventies be out in the garden, hot house, potting plants and growing flowers.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Irene, I would never presume to give advice to you as I consider you a mentor in many ways and admire you beyond words, but I will say that I never, ever, ever scrub anything for hours!!! What I do is work a little bit at a time on each thing. It rarely takes me more than five minutes to clean a bathroom. I would rather do one load of laundry every day than let it pile up into a mountain! I am always looking for ways to do things quicker, to make things more efficient, to be more organized. On a normal day, by 9:30 am my house is as clean as I want it to be, animals are fed, yard and porch are clean, laundry is done and a lot of times supper is ready or the initial preps are done. The rest of the day is mine to do whatever I want to do. I think that gives a lot of leisure time!


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## NCGirl (Jan 5, 2006)

Melissa said:


> On a normal day, by 9:30 am my house is as clean as I want it to be, animals are fed, yard and porch are clean, laundry is done and a lot of times supper is ready or the initial preps are done. The rest of the day is mine to do whatever I want to do. I think that gives a lot of leisure time!


Well, gosh... no wonder you have such a happy outlook  

Seriously, I don't take offense to your post, I can see that it was coming from a good place. But, I also feel the pain of the women who are so frustrated. For them, as it was for me I think it comes down to lack of respect on the husbands part. Perhaps it is easier to complain about the housework than the real problem. At least that is my opinion at the moment


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

edayna,Honestly you are starting to scare me a bit... I think that no matter what anyone says it is not going to make you happy so maybe you should just not read this thread any longer.


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

Melissa - you are a great example to us all. Partly for your ability to get the everyday stuff done to clear the way for other things. I think that is where so many of us get bogged down, with the stuff we HAVE to do. It becomes an obstacle. But I feel amazing respect for your ability to forgive and work with those around you. May we all one day have your ...... what? serenity? courage? faith? strength? Don't know what it is but wouldn't life be a better place if we could all have a share

Thank you again for sharing

hoggie


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## MicheleMomof4 (Jul 17, 2002)

I have long been a member here and now a lurker due to 'life' getting in the way of my posting. But this thread was just enough to make me want to take time to post. Especially when I read this.....


> You know what really yanks my chain?
> When someone brings up a difficult situation in her life...kids, DH, job, parents, whatever.
> And the response: HEY, at least you're lucky enough to HAVE kids/a DH/a job/parents. So stop whining.
> True, maybe, but not very helpful.
> ...


Life is YOURS to live. Your job choice. Your marriage arrangement. How your kids are raised. What relationships you KEEP yourself in, including family. It is just that simple. There are YOUR choices. There are things however not your choice. Such as illness, natural diasters and abuse. But you STILL have a choice in how YOU deal with them. 
You can not change another person, but you can change how you deal with them. If you have "dealt" with these issues and they are still happening,to quote Dr. Phil.....I gotta ask, How is that working for you? Melissa offered some GREAT advice. She did not change Cale, she changed HERSELF. In turn it made Cale want to change. She did not change him or set out to change him. She set out to CONTENT. She changed herself for the better and if in the end all she did was better herself, she was still on the winning end.
Never in my life did I ever think I would read nasty back biting remarks to someone who simply suggested that CONTENTMENT in YOUR LIFE could make you happy. It seems the bulk of the nasty comments (not all who disagreed either were nasty) were from a select bunch who are offended by EVERYTHING Melissa posts. It smacks of jealousy and resentment. I find when I am SO focused on what someone else is doing 'wrong' it usually is my way of avoiding what I am doing wrong. I am truly just floored people are offended by someone suggesting life would be better for them if they were just HAPPY. What a cruel thing she suggested. Goodness.
To the poster who made the snide comments about Melissa not living in the Gulf Coast and her trials. I know of yours trials. After surviving so many hurricanes Wilma finally took my home. And yet I still managed to come out just as Melissa said, content. Living here or there is a CHOICE. I choose to stay. And you know, I might be sad and depressed about what I lost but it does not give me the right to be nasty to someone who has never experienced it. I am glad Melissa has never had to. I am glad many people don't know how it feels. Cause it's not something I want anyone else to feel. And I certainly don't lord it over anyone as a reason to be nasty. I am thankful they have not. I know the end result is I could lose another house. It is my choice. And if you don't have the 'Katrina' excuse, then why mention it? I think it was the poorest of reasons to post about not being content. Millions of people experience natural diasters everyday. No one is exempt from it. It still does not give anyone a good reason to be nasty to someone else who isn't in your shoes. 
If your unhappy with ANYTHING in your life....waiting for someone else to change or fix it is a sure sign it will never happen. What is the saying? If you aim for nothing, you will hit your mark each and every time.


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## Cindy in NY (May 10, 2002)

Melissa said:


> edayna,Honestly you are starting to scare me a bit... I think that no matter what anyone says it is not going to make you happy so maybe you should just not read this thread any longer.


edayna - From the very beginning of this thread, you could have simply said "I don't agree" or "I don't think that will work for me". Instead you choose to be very nasty to someone who is simply trying to relate what has worked for them. I do not understand why, if this thread upsets you so, that you continue to read and post here.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

FarmGoddess said:


> Melissa, what medication are you on, because I really would like some.
> 
> Ya'll have to excuse me, I'm not from Stepford.....


I rarely agree with Melissa because we are very different women. However, in this (and a few other things  ) I must say she is absolutely right. If your house is a home .... cozy, organized and reasonably clean .... your whole system is well balanced and at peace. It becomes a haven away from the rest of the world.


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## Peacock (Apr 12, 2006)

I won't post in the Melissa Appreciation Society anymore.

I apologize for forgetting that the entire forum belongs to her and therefore she is glorified and worshiped. My bad.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

edayna said:


> I won't post in the Melissa Appreciation Society anymore.
> 
> I apologize for forgetting that the entire forum belongs to her and therefore she is glorified and worshiped. My bad.


You are missing the point. The point she is trying to make is that if you start out with a positive outlook each day, everything that gets thrown your way becomes so much easier to deal with.

And this is not something that comes automatically. There are days when I wake up a bit down in the dumps from worrying or whatever. But then I take a few minutes to think of all my blessings and that makes my outlook on life much more sunny.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Wow, my very own society. Just what I have always dreamed of! 

Woman, you really need to loosen up a bit!!!! Seriously 

I have tried to show you that I don't have a perfect life, people don't always agree with me, this place is supposed to be fun, interesting, helpful etc... Maybe something about me just rubs you the wrong way, and if that is the case not much I can do about it, but really I'm just a normal person trying to do the best I can.


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## hisenthlay (Feb 23, 2005)

I enjoyed the first post--I agree with it, and striving to think that way helps me in my life.

However--I think that it is more useful for some than others (as Melissa acknowledged in the OP). I think that if you are by yourself, or have a partner who is basically a decent person, then it is helpful. I think that it is _not_ particularly helpful if you are in a dead-end relationship with a guy who would rather spit on his mother's grave than try to be a real partner to you. If you can get out of such a relationship, I think that you should. If you feel trapped in such a relationship (for the sake of kids, or something?), then you can try to work on your attitude as much as possible, but your house will never really be a home, and it will never be a privilege or a blessing to pick up after that jerk. You can try to be happy and be effective at work and a good parent, but your home will most likely always be a sore point. My mom always says that the partner you pick is the most important decision you can make in life, and she should know, because she spent 20 years in a bad marriage. My parents are both good people--but they were like "two positively charged ions" (to quote Milhouse)--they brought out the worst in each other, and they just could not be _partners_ to each other. One of them having a "positive attitude" would not have changed the other, or made the house cleaner. What they needed was a divorce. They got one when I went to college (long overdue), and lo and behold, they are now both happier and live in MUCH cleaner houses. 

Anyway, I am thankful to be living with a very decent, loving, respectful guy who tries (and continually improves) at being neat, despite his natural absentminded messiness. As I pick up his socks and coffee cups _again_, I am able to think of all the things he does for me, simply because he cares, and how hard he tries to be better. A good attitude, as described in the OP, certainly does make my life better, and makes my guy more committed to improving himself, too.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I've been reading this thread, and it's very interesting. Seems to do more to divide ladies than make us feel better about ourselves.

Now, the title does imply there are no housekeeping woes, just whatever is your own attitude's fault. And I admit, I did not get past the first couple of paragraphs before I hit back. (I have gone back and read the whole thing since then.) I'm really glad all this worked for Melissa, and I think it can work for SOME, but there are too many variables out there for it to be quite as simple as this for many.

I see edayna's hurt and can understand trying to get a partner and children who learn from the partner to help a bit, and then reading how if she'll just change her attitude everything will clear up and be good, because it worked for at least one person. That doesn't mean it will work for her.

The paragraph that hisenthlay said about the partner making a big difference is what a lot of this is about.

And really, when you've come on this or any other board and told about how you're at wits end on getting some help, or whatever - then very soon thereafter a post about how just changing your attitude made everything fine cause you decided to make it fine... it hurts like a mental slap in the face.

So, while I mean Melissa no disrespect, I do see the side of the issue that some take of it appearing a bit condescending. And I know Melissa would not do that. And I do see the hurt that some post from.

As to my housekeeping - as in all things - various priorities sometimes get in the way, and it would be great occasionally to have some muscle help to move the big things. But, I'll manage and just not invite those of you that intimiate me over.

So here's a hug to Melissa for trying, and a hug to the others because you are hurting.

Angie


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## caroline00 (Nov 10, 2002)

I think some of the frustrations are that some of us work a lot harder cleaning with a lot fewer results because we either have family that dont help (and maybe are incredibly messy) or we havent been taught to do it or both.

Although it can be frustrating/depressing we still are in charge of/responsible for our own feelings...

I do not let my children punish the whole family for something that has disappointed them/frustrated them etc but rather teach them some coping mechanisms so that they can manage thier outlook on life more effectively. so why should I expect less of myself?


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

Mellisa, Whistle while you work is good advice!
I try-
not always easy but the results are worth it!


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## SunsetSonata (Nov 23, 2006)

> I won't post in the Melissa Appreciation Society anymore.
> 
> I apologize for forgetting that the entire forum belongs to her and therefore she is glorified and worshiped. My bad.


Edayna, please note that I did not think Melissa's post was as sensitive as it could have been under the circumstances, but that doesn't mean I think she's some evil being who brainwashes her minions into glorifying her name into the next millenium.

I think there's something bothering you much deeper than housework or Melissa. I bet people here would be willing to listen and help you if you would let them. I don't know - I haven't been here all that long - but anyway - hope everyone calms down soon.


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

Melissa,

Thanks so much for the post. It's something I really needed to hear right now (I have four boys ages 8 and under.)

Don't take any of the negativity to heart. Some people just can't handle accepting that they're responsible for their own happiness.

 RedTartan


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## Mr.Dad (Feb 17, 2007)

Melissa said:


> I have been wanting to write this for a while and with the house fairly quiet right now I may be able to gather my various thoughts together and write something somewhat sensible.
> 
> So many, many times over the years I have been involved with these forums I find woman (more rarely men) who are overwhelmed with keeping up their houses and other homesteading chores. They have too much to do, their husbands don't help or appreciate their efforts, their children have to be coaxed, bribed or threatened into doing their chores. It comes to a boiling point and Mom explodes, or goes on "strike"... They wonder where it all went so wrong and what they can do to change everyone else. When in reality the change begins inside. There are a few ideas I hold dear, number one, Never, ever lie to yourself. You should always be truthful with yourself if no one else in the world. But I find more people lying to themselves than you would imagine. Number two, the only person you can truly change is you. You can talk until you are blue in the face and you will never change another person. I'll say it again, the only person you can change is yourself....
> 
> ...


Very nice read (thumbs up).....

There is nothing like the feeling of having a clean and organized house....and a stocked pantry as well .....

I love the fact that people can open my cabinets and closets and things don't fly out at them.....

I've only been at this a year and a half (my wife and I switched, long story) but I honestly love it....sure it took some getting used to....and some people appear to think it's odd (stay at home dad)....but heck with em, my kids love having me home.....


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## tinetine'sgoat (Aug 4, 2005)

Mr.Dad said:
 

> Very nice read (thumbs up).....
> 
> There is nothing like the feeling of having a clean and organized house....and a stocked pantry as well .....
> 
> ...


I don't think your crazy. My brother was a stay at home dad while the kid's were younger. His wife made more money and they decided that as long as one of them was home it didn't matter which one it was. He liked it, but was glad to get back to being a school teacher and coach when they were old enough for school. Sorry for the drift...


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## mayfair (May 7, 2006)

Housework and housekeeping are a hot button issues. They are like religion or politics.

That said, I appreciate the core message in Melissa's post. I think Willow Girl captured it in her first post on the thread. It is about being fully present with "what is." Buddhist literature has been helpful for me as well.

It's not ultimately about housework or any particular task-but how a person approaches life. Research shows optimistics live longer and are healthier. I aspire to be one...not there yet but improving.


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## MicheleMomof4 (Jul 17, 2002)

> I won't post in the Melissa Appreciation Society anymore.
> I apologize for forgetting that the entire forum belongs to her and therefore she is glorified and worshiped. My bad.


I wonder why you are singling her out?
Alot of Christian women I know think this way. And surprise, not all of them know Melissa!  Some expressed that they agree on this thread. So, we can't agree with her cause it makes us "butt kissers" of the Melissa Appreciation Society cause we happen to think the same on an issue?
I came to the conclusion of being content with my life with no help from Melissa. Cause I have a mind of my own. Your attitude is if someone agrees with her it isn't on the merit of her opinion but just simply to be a butt-kisser. That is just suggesting these women can not think for themselves. Surely you don't suggest that? This whole comments on butt kissing and so on reeks of Sweet Valley High actually. Why is it if someone disagrees then they are taking sides? It is such a silly notion. People disagree with me everyday, I don't discount or disrespect their opinion because of it.


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## mamalisa (Feb 1, 2004)

Lo and behold, even the non-Christian grumpy people among us agree---and I think NCgirl took pictures of my ex's house---sorry, Lee, if you're on here! I have to state that I don't think he did it out of disrespect, he would clean up IF I asked---but he doesn't see dirt and I do.

We're friends now that we don't live together. He's a great guy. He just plain doesn't see dirt, and then when he does, he's too overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of it to deal with it.

BTW, it wasn't the deal-breaker that led to divorce.


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## Audrey (Jun 19, 2002)

I had to come out of the shadows and get involved in this one. I found the original post very encouraging and a great reminder. The replies have been very surprising and interesting to say the least. 

As for myself, Melissa's approach works for me. But only when I am consistently mindful of my attitude, feelings, thoughts. Not to add fuel to the fire (Melissa Society, LOL), but that is one of the things I admire about Melissa. She seems to be so consistent. Changing my attitude and outlook on life very incrementally over the years has improved my happiness way beyond what I could have ever believed possible. I retrained myself.

I wonder if something constructive could come from this? I visit another board occasionally that has a daily housework thread. When Melissa mentioned getting up with a plan for the day, it reminded me of it. The women who participate list what they would like to accomplish for the day/next day/week. Others would comment and post their plan also. The women would also talk about how close they came to completing their plan. I found it inspiring and it gave me a lot of ideas. It showed how different people organized their time and what worked and what didn't. They seemed to have quite a comradery. I wonder if something like that would work at CF? Just a thought.

Denise Audrey


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## Peacock (Apr 12, 2006)

Ooookay. I was going to do as I was told and leave this thread alone, but Angie told me to come and read what she wrote, so here I am again. 

I apologize to Melissa and everyone else for the last couple of posts I wrote which were, I admit, immature and snarky. I don't like being that way but it happens sometimes. 

This forum is important to me and while I'm still feeling a bit sore and grouchy, so many people here have been kind and helpful to me and I'd like to acknowledge that too. Now I will try to be like Thumper and not say anything if I can't say anything nice.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Ya' know, through the years, Melissa and I have not agreed on many, many issues, but we've remained cordial.

On this issue, I agree with her 100%. It's attitude, attitude, attitude!

When I married the first time, I had never been taught to cook, clean, shop or sew -nothing. I made it my goal to learn how to do all of those things and well. Poor first husband had to get through my disasterous cooking. I learned though and I love the accomplishment of a clean house and having all the laundry washed, dried, folded and put away.

A negative attitude drives away the energy that is needed to keep a clean house AND it drives people away too.


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## gccrook (Nov 21, 2003)

WOW!!! I am so sorry you got such bad response. I want to point out that what you had to say is very much applicable in a general way. Example: my BIL's DW does not do much in the way of housekeeping, even when she was a SAHM. However, he would come home and do the cleaning even though he had worked hard that day. Attitude. It applies to everything. My/your spouse may or may not be perfect. May not even be close. However, that should have no bearing on our own attitude. This applies to everything in life. My attitude and happiness are in no way determined by others, unless I let it be. Probably the greatest problem is that Melissa approached this from a Christian viewpoint and some may not understand that. It is however a lesson all could take about life in general. I know Melissa applied it somewhat specifically to housecleaning, but that is not the real point. 

Thanks Melissa. It is a help to those that wish to think about the real point.


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## Hip_Shot_Hanna (Apr 2, 2005)

Edayna.. I honestly mean this from the bottom of my heart.

Well done. I appreciate the effort you have made on your last post. It's ok to feel sensitive when you are hurting. It's natural to find it hard to respond in a positive manner, especially when you don't agree either.


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## Jaclynne (May 14, 2002)

Excellent post Angie. I can sure see both sides of this one and see how both sides are so sure they're seeing it like it is. 

I hate housework myself. I'd rather be fishing, painting a screendoor, digging in the dirt, nearly anything, let me alphabetize the library. 

I never let the laundry or the kitchen get away from me, but the rest of it can wait till it 'needs' it. We are a mess here, but only because my dh can drag in more than I can drag out. His collecting skills are truely amazing. Before marrying dh I was just a little dusty.  And I won't be apologizing for it either. I mean did you come to visit me or critique my house? Life is short - let's visit. Oh, and I don't think its ungodly to have a messy house.

I know some women, and men too, just get a thrill out of a clean house. I'm not one of them. I think like Irene - its a never ending, constantly repeating chore. I don't think raising has much to do with it. I have a baby sister that's just pleased as punch when her house is spotless (and I've never seen it any other way) but her checkbook is a financial nightmare. I have an aunt just a couple of yrs my senior who when she comes to visit will straighten a magazine and then look to see your reaction. If its positive she'll have your drapes shook out and the dining room floor waxed before you know it. She just loves it. Makes her feel successful. I don't know the measure of her checkbook but she's still supporting her grown kids and her grandkids.

The point I'm making is people have different priorities. If you get a thrill from cleaning, or are afraid of what others will say if you don't clean, or have a partner who insist on a certain level of spit and shine - then go for it.  But don't expect others to do the same or take it kindly the advice that attitude will solve the problem. There are other influences - family, circumstances, health issues, and personal desires that effect things. If I strove to keep a spotless house it would be the undoing of me - I can no way keep up with what my spouse can undo (and he picks up his own dishes). _Plus, I don't want to be kept by my house._

I'm sorry this thread has gotten so emotional for so many. And it really would not be productive for me to discuss how understandable I think Edayna's reaction was.

Halo


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

edayna - for what it's worth. I'm proud of you doing that last post.

Angie


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Perhaps I can write something helpful. 

What I was trying to get at earlier about the Buddhist stuff, trying to cultivate a quiet mind, is that many people are driven hither and yon by desires. When they're unhappy, they don't really understand why, and they seek to relieve their pain by external means ... for instance, by buying something. It doesn't necessarily have to entail a trip to the mall, either ... for a homesteader, it might mean another 25 chicks, a new horse, garden stuff, etc. The problem is, whether it's stuff for the house or the yard or the kids or the barn, all this Stuff requires maintenance, care, or at the very least, a place to store it! Which only creates more unhappiness over the long run, as the burden becomes heavier and heavier ... I see so many people caught in this cycle of unhappiness, acquisition, MORE unhapiness, etc. (I have been there a time or two myself.) 

If your commitments and obligations really are beyond your ability to fulfill, and providing you have become as organized and efficient as you possibly can be, maybe it's time to take a look at scaling back some stuff to a manageable level. You really don't HAVE to have it all!

As far as the uncooperative spouse and kids ... if the husband really IS a lout, and the kids have learned from Dad to be loutish slobs, I agree there probably is a time when it's appropriate to throw up one's hands and say ENOUGH!

If you can't walk away from the insensitive ingrates, at the very least, turn your attention elsewhere and find other things in your life that bring you happiness and fulfillment. If you have the ability , hire a cook, housekeeper, or whatever else it takes to keep your household on track ... after all, they won't expect appreciation that won't be forthcoming, just cold hard cash! If all else fails, stake out a room in the house to call your own, put a lock on the door, keep your personal space immaculate and let the rest of the family stew in their own juices!


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## Sharon in NY (May 11, 2002)

I've been offline for a few days, and this thread has been a fascinating read. I think Melissa is right, but I also got the same vibe, not of condescension but of (I think totally involuntary) self-congratulation. Frankly, I think Melissa is entitled to it, even though it is hard for some of us to hear.

And I also think I understand some other people's reactions - it can be hard to open yourself up on the net and admit that you are imperfect, that you can't do something, particularly something so tied up with women's identities as keeping house - and then to be told that the problem is you is particularly painful. I think everyone who has ever posted about something they have done wrong has had that weird stab of hurt that you get when you admit how imperfect and flawed you are, and someone else, even with the best of intentions, says "yes you are, and here's how you fix yourself." Again, I'm not saying that was Melissa's intention - quite the contrary - but I understand the reaction.

I find it fascinating that we still respond so strongly to issues of housekeeping - that we're so tied up with where and how we live. I know I am - and I say this as a woman who is a self-professed poor housekeeper. Sometimes I try and fix it (and I'm getting better) and sometimes I try not to care (I get better at that too). But I also know that deep down, I feel like I should be better at this - and whether it is true or not, being told that my attitude is the origin of my problem is a hard thing to hear sometimes. I know it is true - but that doesn't mean it doesn't sting to know that you are the source of your own troubles.

I also think there's a thread running through this, almost unacknowledged, about what kind of marriage you should have. I think some people don't have good marriages, or they have good ones with deep troubles in related areas, and for those of us who do have happy marriages and supportive spouses, I think we can accidentally cause pain by talking about what we have that others don't. Because ultimately, if you are married to someone who isn't helpful or supportive, you don't have a lot of good choices. And attitude is not always enough to fix a marriage. It can do a lot with some surface problems, but maybe not enough for the really deep ones. So if talking about your housekeeping problems is a way of talking about your marital problems, it may be that attitude changes are not enough.

An interesting thread.

Sharon


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## Peacock (Apr 12, 2006)

Willowgirl -- I have to tell you that yes, your post was very insightful and helpful. You are correct. I often do try to take on more than I should, and it's likely done in an attempt to prove I'm competent or ease some kind of internal pain. Usually when I see you've posted I steel myself because I don't think I'll like what you have to say (and if I had to pick the member here who's made me the angriest, you'd be in the running ) but you did well here and I appreciate that.

Sharon -- you said it VERY well. Thank you.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Why, thank you! 

I really do wish you the best.


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## fellini123 (Feb 2, 2003)

I have been avoiding this thread, for lots of reasons, not the least of these is that I am housekeeping challenged!! LOL
Melissa and I dont agree on everything, we are 2 VERY different people, but I think she is a nice lady that is trying to make a difference in her own way.
Attitude in anything and everthing makes a difference. Ever read, "7 Steps Of Highly Successful People?" And there is another book that talks about the effects of Positive Thinking in your everyday life. And it is true you get what you expect.
Anyway, I think there are also some people in life that are only happy when they are complaining about something. These are sad people, and chances are they will stay sad, cause that is when they are happiest.....does that make sense...........
Alice in Virginia


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Melissa....
As challanging as house keeping can be. You and others are lucky to be able to wash clothes...make meals...and move around.
I would give almost anything to do the boring chores again. 

Just to let you all know...did not read any of the posts but the first..


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

I am not a good housekeeper. I hate cleaning my house but do it so it doesn't get condemned. There, that is the truth. Now I could overanalyze and say I have deep seated feelings, emotions, or some pyschological "thing" going on that makes me the way I am. But I don't. It's not my child's fault, not my "off the farm" job, not the church's fault, not my parent's fault, nor is it the fault of the tornado that took everything I worked for away in five minutes. It is just the way I am. Housework is drudgery for me, never ending, ceaseless hard work that is boring and a day later, the dust comes back and I have to start over.

So there. Now I could be depressed and anxious about not having a really clean house. I could blame everyone around me saying it's their fault, but I know it is not their fault and that would be a lie.

One of life's biggest "learning" experiences is to own up to and recognize that there are just some things about ourselves that are deep seated and unchanging. Cleaning house for me is one such thing. I will never like it, I will never be as good as some about doing it and therefore I have a choice - wallow in the mire or try to deal with it.

I deal with it because though I do hate the task, I find living in squalor equally hateful. So I reward myself with little bits and bobs. Since I love my barn, and it is spotless (yes it truly is, the aisleway is swept daily, sometimes twice and hosed every other day, the stalls are immaculate, the feed room has NO dust on anything..and the tack room is somewhat organized) I tell myself - do the laundry, while it's going, vacuum the hallway, when that's done - fold the clothes and put them away and then you can go "play" a bit outside. That's my reward for doing house stuff first.

I do housecleaning by only committing to one room every other day, dusting every other day, and hiring a housekeeper once every four months to do the stuff I really hate (cleaning cabinets, organizing "stuff"). My house is liveable, has not gotten giant dustbunnies under the beds, and there isn't "stuff" strowed everywhere. I make a trip through the main rooms and pick up stuff and put it back on trips to and from. I try very hard not to let things get too "out of order". 

But will I ever "love" housework - no. I have much better things to do like plant flowers, cook (I love to cook), wash a dirty horse, listen to my son tell me stories about school and read. Go for walks outside, and even come to HT to see what is going on. 

I am sure Melissa doesn't think she some sort of Saint - I've never known her to be mean to anyone, or "Lord it over her forum that she's perfect". She seems like someone I wouldn't mind having for a neighbor and she has found a way to keep her house and family organized that works for her. I guess that is the key here and I'm not gonna put any words in her mouth, but it seems that is what each one of us has to do. Find a way that works for us.

I will never win a housekeeping prize or be in Better Homes & Gardens..but if you ever visited, you'd be ok..nothing would adhere to your bottom from the chairs, no dustbunnies would hitch a ride on your shoes, and you'd be surprised what I can do in the kitchen if given a fair shake. Sure, there'd be books scattered about, and likely a coffee cup or ten in the sink waiting to fill the dishwasher, and my office has stacks of filing..but nothing would bite you - lol..

Find what works for you. If you have young children, teach them to pick up stuff and make it fun - a game if you will if that will make it easier for them and yourself. Life is too short to agonize about things that we cannot change about ourselves - accept it and then find a way to make things easier for yourselves. For me, there are days when a bulldozer would be nice to just shovel everything out and start over. 

I do work long hours both off and on the farm. I am a single mom with a teenage boy. I have livestock, an ailing mother who depends on me to help her with rental property and her big farm. I prioritize a lot of the time - does my Mom need me more than this toilet needs cleaning? Yes. So I can do that after dark. Does my son need me to listen to him (sit down and look at him and listen - yep - there goes the dusting for now). 

But you know - I have found over time that not a single person who has ever been in my house, from the "best housekeepers right on down to the neighbor kids" has ever said anything about my housekeeping. Never complained while they were eating poundcake and drinking coffee or soda, they seem to keep coming back so I guess I haven't run them off yet with my lousy housekeeping skills. Many come to see a new horse, get some free herbs from the garden, and neighbor kids flock here to eat, visit, and hang out. Guess all that is worth not having a perfectly kept house - but then I don't think Melissa was saying one needs to have perfect house either. 

It is all in our ability to own up and then find a way to make things work. Now that may be kicking tail and taking names and standing up for oneself and not being a houseslave or doormat. It might be taking ten minutes to teach a child how to "pick up" and make it a funny, giggly game. I don't agree with everyone here, but I try to listen and learn - believe it or not, I usually do come away with some new idea for cleaning..lol..and trust me, I need them.

Sorry for the length, but I hate to see people get their knickers in a twist over house work. It's like brushing one's teeth - you might hate the time spent doing it, but be glad later that you did it.

My humble opinion don't count for much - but all of y'all know that Melissa is trying to help and this is a computer forum where you can't see the person and their smile and inflections and caring in one's voice. Perhaps some don't like the message, but there is truth in "don't shoot the messenger".


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## Jillis (Sep 11, 2005)

trixiwick said:


> People, even women, have the right to feel upset when they are ill-used, and *I don't think there's anything admirable about sucking it up and believing it's God's plan for you.* I think it needs to be a balance between improving your attitude (being grateful for what you have and learning to take real pride in caring for it) and standing up for yourself (insisting that your husband and kids not trample over you as if you are a worthless slave). Those who are struggling with this have my sincere sympathy.


Well, I am a Christian, and I love housekeeping. 

But in most of my years of marriage to my dh, I have had a constant struggle to keep my home the way I enjoy it. 

DH is a very strong-willed, hard to dialogue with person. For the first several years of our marriage he struggled with drug and alcohal addictions, infidelities, and was emotionally and verbally extremely abusive. He also has profound dylexia and requires my help running his businesses and the household finances. Add to this problem pregnancies that required bedrest and special care, and horrible medications that affect you physically---a meddling MIL, no help from grandparents because of bad issues of mental illness and pedophilia...a tiny house with no closets and storage. Constant interruptions and demands, four kids at home and 2 with severe asthma---compromising sleep and time demands and stress of worrying continuously, add in the normal childhood illnesses and then losing a baby girl...I can remember being so tired that if i could have hired someone to chew my food for me I would have...there were times I went for days w/o sleep. Dh was at his absolute worse when I most needed support and assistance. 

My kids do help with housework. I am happiest when FREE to take care of my home. Many of the worst issues affecting our family have been resolved. 

But I do think I have a valid basis for complaint and unhappiness when DH makes more mess than anyone could imagine and then berates me for being a slob while demanding tons of my time to run his business and errands on the drop of a dime---things that if I did not do them would mean financial loss or even ruin. 

It is not always so easy or black and white...I remember one of my dearest freinds spouting off in Womens Prayer meeting. "If we leave our homes and they are not in order and the beds aren't made, we have no business being here in prayer!" I believe it was aimed at me. 
Well, so sorry---I could not have survived those horrible, nightmare years w/o those prayer meetings and Bible studies, literally the only thing I did for myself and an important source of strength and grace to a sad, depressed, stressed, exhausted, unfulfilled and dumped-upon woman. 
This woman's dh is a neat freak to the point of being anal. In almost every home I have seen where things are clean and in order to the point of being unreal, or even just almost perfect, the dh has been a very clean and thoughtful person. You would be amazed how much of a difference that makes. If I even sit down for a cup of tea, even today, dh seems to resent any little bit if time I take for relaxation. 

So, take it from one who loves housekeeping and is a Christian. For the most part of my life I have been optimistic to the point of Polyannaism. External circumstances can and do affect your "attitude". My having a postitive attitude about housework while struggling as I did for those years would not have helped get my home in order. 

I am still weeding through those issues as I am healing from that time of my life, and still getting things in order. 

People who haven't had to deal with all these issues cannot possibly understand, hence the platitudes that can cut and wound those of us who have. I realize I am painting an extreme picture here, but the stuggles of dealing with abuse, neglect, addictions in loved ones, illness and etc can to varying degrees bring despair...and if someone needs to vent about it, they should be able to do so w/o having someone come back with what was originally posted. Post it without it being a "response" to someone's thread about being upset about lack of help and lack of other's picking up after themselves. 

I hope this helps some of you understand some of the reactions to the original post. I am sure it was intended as a help, but it is the same kind of attitude I often had trouble with in church, when someone who had a very good background, good income, few real heavy problems, or just a few at a time, would get up and say, "Why do certain peoplke come to the altar time and time again and never get better? God says this or that (take your pick) just walk in His Word!"

This comes across as condemnation, and those of us with so many issues form childhood and present circumstances or both that are unbelievably difficult to deal with need others who haven't walked a mile in our shoes understand that you can have so many issues with deep trauma involved that it takes a LONG time to deal with it. You can only deal with it little by little. Meanwhile, housework may not be the most important item on the agenda. And by the time you are free to do your housework, you might be so absolutely exhausted and drained that you need the sleep more. And for someone who likes to keep house---that just adds another stress, another sense of failure, another source of low self-esteeem...and then to be told it is your "attitude" or some other reason is adding insult to the injury blife is already doing to you...

FWIW, I truly did try to be thankful for whatever I could during those years, and still do today...under all the stress and demands on me, I still feel hope and optimism trying to rise up. Lately, it has been difficult again, but I do believe God has been and is at work in our family. Just doesn't happen very quickly when only one person is cooperating with God. 

A Stepford Wife would have been perfect for my dh.


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## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

Jillis I am so sorry for you. I have battled with depression and a DH who needed to improve (although I am still not certain if he was as bad as I recall or if I was just feeling he was because of my depression) although he was never as bad as you describe your DH in the past. I am also sorry that you got criticism from sister churchmembers. I am not a churchgoer and hearing things like this make me glad I am not. There is something about a gathering of women that can lead to pain if they are not careful.

Hearing your problems makes me wonder why you put up with this man and his behavior. You certainly sound like someone who might start an antidepressant and 'lose weight'- as the joke goes "I lost 200 ugly pounds- I divorced my husband!" And you certainly sound depressed (which can arise on its own in people who 'ought' to be perfectly happy but is also more likely and can arise without any predisposition in people who are in stressful or horrendous situations- a reactive depression). If I were in your church group I might be thinking that maybe God wants you to get rid of your bad husband or in some other active manner change the equation where he gets away with treating you so badly. (in reference to you saying some people seem to feel "Why do certain people come to the altar time and time again and never get better? God says this or that (take your pick) just walk in His Word!" )

Perhaps I should not post this but I am worried about you and wonder why you have no apparent path out of your misery and why you choose to stay in such an awful situation.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

I think you are all missing the point somewhat. I think Melissa was using housekeeping as an example ..... and was trying to say that if your "head" and "attitude" are in the right place, everything else falls into place. And speaking only for myself, if your "house" is in order it makes life a lot easier. It cuts down on time wasted and stress looking for stuff. 

Ok gals ..... think of it in general terms .....


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## MountainMama (Oct 20, 2002)

Melissa:

I needed this so much this morning. As my health problems have continued I've noticed that I just do less and feel sorry for myself. I have been complaining every day about the cluttered house and no one helping me, but "I" have done nothing about it either. 

I am so embarrassed when someone from the church stops by to check on me. I was devastated when my Dad's wife (who is an obsessive cleaner) came by yesterday. I am going to make a new plan and try to get this mess straightened out.

Thanks for the motivation!

MountainMama


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## trixiwick (Jun 9, 2004)

Jillis, you have always come across as such a sweet person, and I have to tell you that reading that your husband gets annoyed when he sees you relaxed and happy for a minute makes me want to come to your house and punch him in the gut. :grump: Why can some men not see when they have a good thing? It makes me MAD!

Dutchie, I also have to say that I don't agree that having the right attitude necessarily makes everything fall into place. If you're in an abusive relationship, you're being killed little by little, and all the forced sunshine in the world won't alter that reality. Sometimes people - especially women - need to be a little less inclined to put a happy spin on a miserable situation and a little more proactive in actually improving their lot in life.

That said, Melissa's advice is still good for many of us - I went home and "shined my sink" (tm FlyLady) over the weekend and DH said, "Oooooh, that's one shiny sink."


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Melissa, any time we put ourselves out there we are open for criticism, nastiness, and totally other opinion's as to what we say. When we post things, we know what we mean and in the heart it was intended, but it often comes off to others completely and totally different. 

I too have been hurt beyond words over things I didn't mean at all how they came out, but that's just part of being on a forum. 

When someone perceives that we are say something that hurts or offends another, they simply feel compelled to either point it out or set us straight. That's just human nature.

You can see from this thread that, although many understood the point you were making, others took it entirely different. They failed to see your true motive, but rather took the typed written words and compared them to their own lives, situations, etc. That doesn't make them wrong, it just makes them different from ourselves. Without meaning to, we often hurt another because of where they may be, or have been, in their life. 

Granted someone doesn't have to get nasty, but sometimes frustration can get that way. When we type words, instead of being able to just "say" what we mean verbally, it is a million times more difficult and frustrating. Add that to the frustration of the replies, and a person does start to loose it sometimes from trying so hard to make another person understand.

I do believe Edayna's apology was sincere and it takes a person with heart and humility to apologize publicly. Her apology should be accepted in grace and forgiveness, just as Jesus would forgive. 

When people criticize us on a forum, we are not a victim. We're the ones who put ourselves out there. You yourself said you don't care what others think. 

I don't mean to sound like I know it all, but I say these things as someone who has taken things much more personally than I should have recently and simply realizes that this site is very different from the old forum days. We've been invaded by the masses and along with that comes a WHOLE lot more personalities and a BUNCH of folk's personal baggage. It means we just have to try harder and forgive more.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

bergere said:


> Melissa....
> As challanging as house keeping can be. You and others are lucky to be able to wash clothes...make meals...and move around.
> I would give almost anything to do the boring chores again.
> 
> Just to let you all know...did not read any of the posts but the first..


Same here, bergere!! You don't realize how blessed you were with those chores until you can no longer do them.


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## PATRICE IN IL (Mar 25, 2003)

I find Melissa's post helpful as I have struggled with housekeeping for a very long time. She hit it on the head, for me atleast, that it is all in the attitude. I am overwhelmed with a messy home and no storage space (under 900 sq ft total living space). I grew up in a large home and we still had a messy home, even with more storage space. My parents were children of the depression and developed the packrat habit from not having many things while growing up. My siblings and I have also developed this habit. I know that I must try to break it so that my son won't have a house full of _JUNK_ to get rid of when I die. It isn't easy realizing that I have to part with my stuff, but for my peace of mind and a cleaner home I must buckle down and do it. I realize that I have to change _MY ATTITUDE_ toward the things that are holding me back, that I can't change the other people in my home, just myself. So to that I say "Thank you Melissa for the great post". I for one have found your post as motivation to TRY and improve my situation by changing my attitude. I have to try today with happiness in my heart, I may not succeed today, but all I can do is thank God for the chance and try again tomorrow.


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## hunter gatherer (Dec 6, 2002)

Without commenting on the original post ( I think it has all been said), I would like to comment on the general rules of conduct on Countryside Families.

It is my understanding that rude, name calling or condescending posts are not allowed here. I realize that folks have lapses in memory, judgment, anger... whatever, and sometimes post in ways that are counterproductive and hurtful. It has been my observation that a moderator is usually pretty quick to delete such posts.

Since these hurtful posts were directed towards Melissa, I see where that would put her in an awkward position regarding their deletion. I think that if she were the one to delete them she would have ended up being accused of more more than she was. But, if those posts would have been directed at another member of this forum, I believe that Melissa would have been very quick to delete them for two reasons;
One- to show that there is zero tolerance for that kind of thing 
and 
Two- to not allow that type of hurtful post to remain in the thread for the person it was directed at to have to read over and over again.

I guess I am wondering why these posts just weren't deleted by another mod. Why were they allowed to just hang around for days to be read over and over again and commented on. I know the original poster did up deleting them, but it is my opinion that they shouldn't have even been around long enough for that to happen.

Those were some of the most hateful and hurtful posts I have ever read on this board ( General Chat included). If I had the power I would have deleted them on the spot.


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## momlaffsalot (Sep 9, 2004)

Melissa, I loved your post! And I appreciate you sharing your story. I have this image of you being just the sweetest, most genuinely pleasant woman to be around. I bet your kids are happy, too. A content spirit is a choice and I think it's great that you chose to share yours with us. Thanks... you make me want to put on some good music and clean the bathroom


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

willow_girl said:


> Perhaps I can write something helpful.



You have been known to do that


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

trixiwick said:


> Dutchie, I also have to say that I don't agree that having the right attitude necessarily makes everything fall into place. If you're in an abusive relationship, you're being killed little by little, and all the forced sunshine in the world won't alter that reality. Sometimes people - especially women - need to be a little less inclined to put a happy spin on a miserable situation and a little more proactive in actually improving their lot in life.
> 
> [\QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

hunter gatherer said:


> Without commenting on the original post ( I think it has all been said), I would like to comment on the general rules of conduct on Countryside Families.
> 
> It is my understanding that rude, name calling or condescending posts are not allowed here. I realize that folks have lapses in memory, judgment, anger... whatever, and sometimes post in ways that are counterproductive and hurtful. It has been my observation that a moderator is usually pretty quick to delete such posts.
> 
> ...


I for one am glad you don't have that power because quite frankly, there have been useful posts on it. There is nothing wrong with having a disagreement and some of the best discussions can come from a little turmoil.


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## PATRICE IN IL (Mar 25, 2003)

Karen is correct that things have changed on this forum from the old days. There are more people, some not as like minded as others here, but I think it is just a sign of the changing times. More people with differing view points. I think that as society changes so will the attitude on this forum, but everyone should be respectful of each other's feelings. I know Melissa's post wasn't meant to make anyone feel bad. If it offended you, you shouldn't purposely be mean spirited and personally attack her. She was just trying to encourage anyone who may benefit from reading it. There seems to be a rise in personal attacks of posters when someone disagrees with the viewpoint of the poster. It seems that in the old days of this forum, if you didn't agree you disagreed nicely or said nothing at all~~~none of the mean spirited attacks that have been taking place more recently. I think we all need to try to get along without purposely trying to hurt someone's feeling when you don't agree with something that's been posted. Wasn't the purpose of coming to this forum to get helpful ideas for making your life happier/simpler.


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

Mellisa, I hope you can be like a duck and let all this roll right off your back.
You did absolutely nothing wrong and I think some people are just a bit too cranky.
Keep on keepin' on.


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## trixiwick (Jun 9, 2004)

I agree completely, Dutchie. I just think there are too many voices telling women who have serious problems at home that the problem is theirs alone, that they should just change their attitude and everything will be fine (NOT that I am saying that this was Melissa's message; it wasn't). The worst advice you can give to someone who is being ill-used - and I see it _constantly_ given - is to just keep giving, and *someday* he will be grateful to you for all your sacrifices. In my experience - no, he won't, he will simply learn that treating you like a doormat is exactly what you deserve. :nono: 

But enough on a downer note. Since I made Rose2005 laugh with my sink post, how about another giggle. True exchange between me and my DH, some years ago:

Me: Why is it that every time you use the microwave, it looks like someone exploded a cat in there?
DH: *shrugs and gives me big innocent eyes* I don't know. I promise I do my best.
Me: Do you put a paper towel over the bowl?
DH: stares cluelessly at me
Me:  Oh, for heaven's sake. What does "doing your best" consist of - thinking good thoughts??
DH: nods and laughs.

He uses a paper towel now.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Perhaps HunterGatherer the mods felt that the original intent of the post far outweighed the resulting posts? Perhaps it is sometimes better to let some ugliness stand, to be recognized as such so in the future we see and *remember* how hurtful things can be to others? 

In any event, deleting the thread will not delete the hurt feelings, only time and forgiveness will diminish that.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

This post was not deleted because it was felt that there was a lot to be learned from the thread. Melissa is a pretty tough nut, folks, and she's also pretty humble. Yes, if it had been any of you under attack, it would have been gone -- it was closed for a while, to give people time to think and not just be reactionary. 

Just please remember, we're ALL human -- not just names on a screen. What you may interpret one way may be meant in an entirely different way -- and your own experiences and current "head space" might just be putting a connotation on things that it really was never meant to have. That "be nice" rule means a lot more than praying for those who ask for it, or giving of cyber hugs.


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## caroline00 (Nov 10, 2002)

a lot of moderator effort behind the scenes has gone on in this thread. WE havent been flippant at all in how we handled it. I took the ultimate responsibility in closing it and also in reopening it.

If this thread has even helped one forum member to cope with thier life situation then I am sure Melissa would consider it worth it.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

If you are in a hurtful abusive relationship - it is a matter of attitude and choice. Your attitude is that you are not worthy and you choice to believe it. SO, change your attitude about being worthy, get out of the relationship and BINGO - new attitude, happier person. That's ALL Melissa was trying to say.

I'm sooo sorry that Melissa, has allowed someone(s) who is not getting it, to hurt her feelings and make her feel that her time and effort has been wasted on the rest of us who appreciate her heartfell effort to help.

Like it or not, we all pretty very much end up being a self prophecy.

Thank all of you for encouraging me to not make having a neat house be so important, I invite everyone, especially everyone who thinks it's the answer to come for a visit, like rose I'll likely have something yummy to share, and a fresh pot of coffee. And YOU can be made to feel better because you will know "atleast" you have a neat house 

Hugs all around,
Marlene


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## heather (May 13, 2002)

I think it was good that the thread was closed down for a bit to let everyone take a breath -

Melissa's original post had good in it for some and not for others.

I have already stated my feelings on it, so I was just going to add something else to the subject matter.

My husband is a clean freak & I am not.

I'm not a dirt freak either  

But I used to spend part of my days cleaning the house & then he would come home from work & re-do everything because it wasn't up to his standards. It used to burn me beyond belief!

After a while, I learned that since I was getting so stressed out about it, I needed to figure out an alternative to feeling burned.

Some days my alternative is to not sweep the floor at all - he will do it when he comes home.
Some days my alternative is to get the worst of it up & know that he will do it again when he comes home........and let it go!  

This is partially what Melissa was talking about - changing your attitude. That being said, if my husband would _not_ re-do my chores every day, I would be thrilled 


PS - for the record, I could lick the floors clean & he would re-do them when he came home :baby04:


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## caroline00 (Nov 10, 2002)

well, at our house I shoot the critters creating havoc behind the house and my husband shoots the critters in front of the house.

So one morning about 1am, I hear havoc in the chicken coop. I go out there and find a skunk...

so I go back into the house and inform my husband that he needs to go out to the chicken coop and get rid of the skunk.

he says *oh, no, thats your jurisdiction*

And I reply *apparently you didnt read the fine print that excludes skunks*

so he put his boots on and took care of the skunk....

a few weeks later, I end up going out early in the dark morning to the chicken coop again.... It is an 8 foot long snake...

so, I go back in and let him know that he needs to go out and take care of the snake...

he wakes up enough to start to argue and then says.... *oh yeah, the fine print* and puts on his boots and goes on out there...

a few weeks later he comes to me and says *where is the contract that has all the fine print about shooting critters?*

I looked at him and smiled and said *in my head*

so now anytime we have a *minor* altercation, he always looks at me, smiles and nods his head and says.... *oh yeah, that contract is in your head*


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## caroline00 (Nov 10, 2002)

I agree Marlene...
they can visit me too.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

I still contend that it all comes down to ATTITUDE. I am saying this from personal experience.

My attitude about myself gave me the determination to remove myself from two unhappy marriages. The respect I give myself is why my house is as clean as I am able to keep it. If I had a negative attitude about myself, Roger might pick up on it and treat me a lot differently than he does. Knowing him, he'd just leave.

Then there is my attitude about him and our marriage. I am not speaking for him now but I always say please and thank you to him. I never ever speak badly of him even if I want to do this :frypan:. We watch each other's feelings with a lot of protection.

I also keep our house clean because it makes our life together nicer.


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## Cindy in NY (May 10, 2002)

heather said:


> But I used to spend part of my days cleaning the house & then he would come home from work & re-do everything because it wasn't up to his standards.


DH can be overly "neat" also. One time I caught him re-folding the underwear I had just put in his drawer. I told him that if my folding didn't suit him, I wouldn't do it anymore. He hasn't re-folded any since!


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## heather (May 13, 2002)

Cindy in NY said:


> DH can be overly "neat" also. One time I caught him re-folding the underwear I had just put in his drawer. I told him that if my folding didn't suit him, I wouldn't do it anymore. He hasn't re-folded any since!


Well, I will say that my husband has never criticized my housework - I didn't include that in my 1st post & I should have - he is a polite gentleman -
He simply re-does things!
I don't think it's a personal attack on me (I used to think that) - he just likes to be in control.
I love him dearly - I just realize that he's 46 yrs old & this is something that's not going to change at this point!  

And it is good to divide the tasks when possible (ie - you shoot in back & I shoot in front!)
I do most of the other housework - it's usually just the floors that dh has a problem with.

Oh, I meant to add that I do realize that some men DO criticize their wives & I think it's terrible.....if that is the case, then their ATTITUDE is not just all about them trying to keep their chin up - it is the fault of someone in their lives who made a vow to love & cherish them & are not living up to their vow. :nono:


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## Eileen-Hughes (Nov 30, 2006)

I'm amazed at many of the responses here.

Basically, Melissa said that "attitude" will affect how you view your life. How is that wrong? :shrug: 

She went on do describe how she manages life and how she has found satisfaction. How is that wrong? :shrug: 

Then she made observations on what she feels may be stumbling blocks for those who are not satisfied with their lives. How is that wrong? :shrug: 

Maybe Melissa has a Gift for being Optimistic and having a Thankful Attitude that shines through in her many roles? Shall we hate her for that?  

I know, let's shred Melissa for marrying a good man and doing her best to keep him a good man by showing him respect and taking care of him and their family the best she can!!!!!  

Really!!!! Some of the responses on here are AMAZING!!! Why not applaud the efforts of someone who is happily succeeding in overcoming the human condition?! And maybe show a little thankfulness for her sharing her insight.

She's not pointing fingers or telling you what to do, she simply shared what works for her.


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## hunter gatherer (Dec 6, 2002)

Mods and all,
I said nothing about deleting the Thread. The opening post was very thought provoking and even the posts ( most of them anyway ) that disagreed with the OP and the poster, were constructive and thought provoking as well.

I questioned as to why the particularly hateful post(s), the ones that openly ridiculed and named called were not just deleted as they many times are. The rest of the thread usually stands on it's own and continues after offensive posts are deleted. 

I, for one, am never in favor of deleting whole threads as that penalizes all for the acts of just one or a few.


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

Eileen,
Just guessing here but I think this part of the post is what got some people's dander up:

Honestly, I don't think most housekeeping/spouse/children problems are technical problems. I don't think the house is messy because it is too small, or too big, or there isn't enough storage space, or no one puts things away, or you have too much stuff. It is messy because your heart isn't in it. Isn't that the real truth?   

I know Melissa didn't mean to do anything but give us all an inspirational message. I think some ladies here felt that their concerns that they had posted in other threads were being belittled (or maybe judged is a better word.) Melissa didn't intend to place judgement on anyone but, unfortunately, reading something is often different than hearing it and we miss a lot of the intent of the message because we can't hear the tone of voice here. 

BTW, I used the term 'holier-than-thou' in my response to Melissa. Re-reading, I realized that wasn't the best term to use........sorry if it offended anyone.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

coalroadcabin said:


> Eileen,
> Just guessing here but I think this part of the post is what got some people's dander up:
> 
> Honestly, I don't think most housekeeping/spouse/children problems are technical problems. I don't think the house is messy because it is too small, or too big, or there isn't enough storage space, or no one puts things away, or you have too much stuff. It is messy because your heart isn't in it. Isn't that the real truth?
> ...



There was nothing belittling about it. Fact is that EVERYTHING you do ...... if your heart is in it you do it better AND have more satisfaction from it.

How is that belittling?


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Ardie/WI said:


> I still contend that it all comes down to ATTITUDE. I am saying this from personal experience.
> 
> My attitude about myself gave me the determination to remove myself from two unhappy marriages. The respect I give myself is why my house is as clean as I am able to keep it. If I had a negative attitude about myself, Roger might pick up on it and treat me a lot differently than he does. Knowing him, he'd just leave.
> 
> ...


You are right. We WERE seperated at birth :help:  

Trixi:


> I agree completely, Dutchie. I just think there are too many voices telling women who have serious problems at home that the problem is theirs alone, that they should just change their attitude and everything will be fine (NOT that I am saying that this was Melissa's message; it wasn't). The worst advice you can give to someone who is being ill-used - and I see it constantly given - is to just keep giving, and *someday* he will be grateful to you for all your sacrifices. In my experience - no, he won't, he will simply learn that treating you like a doormat is exactly what you deserve.


You are so right. We cannot expect others to love and respect us if we don't love and respect ourselves first. Not that this always works but hey ... my attitude is that there is a very short list of people whose opinion of me I value and as long as my actions are such that I can sleep at night, all is well with the world.

But it is very difficult to get little pleasures from life if you are so burdened with issues. And trying to see the upside of things combined with undertaking steps to improve your life is a powerful thing.

As far as household chores go .... I am a fairly neat freak. Living on a farm there is always dust and dirt around but I insist on a clean kitchen and bathroom and cannot stand clutter. I share this house with one of the messiest people you will EVER enounter. So I compromise. I spend about 30 minutes each mmorning "picking up". And because most of the year I work 7 days a week, 16 hours a day between the business and the farm, I finally treated myself to a cleaning lady who comes in once a month for about 6 hours. Because our house/office is small (about 1,000 sf) this time is plenty to clean top to bottom. At first I felt decadent and I understand that not everybody can do it, but it makes a huge difference in my life.


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## MicheleMomof4 (Jul 17, 2002)

coalroadcabin said:


> Eileen,
> Just guessing here but I think this part of the post is what got some people's dander up:
> 
> Honestly, I don't think most housekeeping/spouse/children problems are technical problems. I don't think the house is messy because it is too small, or too big, or there isn't enough storage space, or no one puts things away, or you have too much stuff. It is messy because your heart isn't in it. Isn't that the real truth?



If I learned anything in life and marriage is that its never about the thing we are arguing about. It is never about the money, the toothpaste, housekeeping or who changes the diaper. There is always always an underlying reason. And like she said that isn't the problem. Technically, just the work alone is not the issue. It is the motivation to do it that is. And that can be for a number of reasons that many people here have listed. The point was do something about it, find contentment. How ever you can, by any means possible. 


No one suggested staying with an abusive partner and suck it up. How about this? Do something. Easier said than done most will say and I use to say when I was in the same spot. But we all know it HAS to be done. So do we stop telling women to get out? No we don't. We keep saying, find the courage. Find your happiness how ever you need to.
No one suggested there was a standard of clean that we ALL have to inspire to either. Find your level that YOU ARE HAPPY with. That was the suggestion. Find what works for you and your family so it isn't an issue. No one said, clean the floors until you can eat off of them. It was simply suggested to find a level you & your family are happy with to deal with the problem. Once everyone is HAPPY then your heart will be in it. 
No one suggested that having an illness or disability was a lame excuse. All that was said was find happiness and contentment in your life and small things like housekeeping will not cause you stress. 
I've read Melissa's post a million times and the things she is accused of is never in there. She does not say, your house should look like mine. She does not say, there is no excuse. She does not say, suck it up and deal with it. She says IF you are struggling, look within to find your happiness. It makes life easier. Never once did she suggest HOW you find it, how to deal with what is bothering you. Just put your heart into the problem, solve it best you can so you can find happiness. Things DO come easier for those who are happy and content. I don't mean housekeeping comes easier or bad things do not happen. But our ability to HANDLE them does if we are more always seeking joy instead of stress.
I agree with Dutchie......the point was sorely missed.


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

Can I ask a question here? It may be a naive question, but it has been puzzling me since the start of this thread.

Every day on this board, people post the things they have done and are proud of. They post pictures of their newborn animals on the livestock forums. A lady yesterday posted because she had taken part in a ploughing competition. People post when they have completed a craft project, or sold some of their produce. And every day people post their tips, learnt by their life's experience in the frugal living thread and others. 

What did Melanie do? She posted her achievements in life, along with some tips drawn from her own experience. What is the difference?

In all the other cases people celebrate with the person. They take pleasure in other people's achievements. You don't find goat owners, berating other goat owners for gloating because they have just had kids from their prize whatever. No horseowners accused the ploughing lady of belittling other horse owners because we can't all do what she did. Everyone shares, takes pleasure and celebrates with these people.

I think all those people who have chosen to take offence at Melissa's posting should maybe reflect for a few minutes and wonder why this post doesn't deserve the same celebration as all those other achievements?

just tuppence worth from a simple soul

hoggie


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## trixiwick (Jun 9, 2004)

hoggie said:


> What did Melanie do? She posted her achievements in life, along with some tips drawn from her own experience. What is the difference?


I dunno what Melanie did, but here are my thoughts on Melissa's post.  

I think it was just that the post specifically said "what YOU need is a new attitude" and it referred to people who had posted earlier about having problems in this area. It was not, strictly speaking, a "I'm proud of my success in this area" post; it was more along the lines of advice to others. The "others" in question took it way too hard, in my opinion, but there you have it.


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

Dutchie said:


> There was nothing belittling about it. Fact is that EVERYTHING you do ...... if your heart is in it you do it better AND have more satisfaction from it.
> 
> How is that belittling?



Not to start a war, but I didn't say she was belittling anybody! :shrug: - I said her sentence could have been perceived as belittling by someone who was going through a hard time through no fault of their own!!


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

trixiwick said:


> I dunno what Melanie did, but here are my thoughts on Melissa's post.
> 
> I think it was just that the post specifically said "what YOU need is a new attitude" and it referred to people who had posted earlier about having problems in this area. It was not, strictly speaking, a "I'm proud of my success in this area" post; it was more along the lines of advice to others. The "others" in question took it way too hard, in my opinion, but there you have it.


Yep. The "you need a new attitude" should be read as "one needs a new attitude". And then one ought to take a chill pill.

OK .... I am scaring myself. I have been defending Melissa thoroughly in this thread .... considering that in the 10 years or so I have interacted with her on this and the old board (although for the life of me I don't remember my old screen name) she and I rarely agreed on anything.

Must be my bed-ridden state of mind .... making me soft


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

coalroadcabin said:


> Not to start a war, but I didn't say she was belittling anybody! :shrug: - I said her sentence could have been perceived as belittling by someone who was going through a hard time through no fault of their own!!


You aren't starting a war. You are parsing.  

OK ... let me re-phrase. "How can that be perceived as belittling"?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Hoggie
I agree with trixiwick. I think if it had been posted as this is what works for me, and maybe it'll work for you. If it had acknowledged some are hurting and all...

But what I saw

was "YOU need to change your attitude" and everything can be as good as what I have. 

Also, on the other boards where someone says, "Look at this great thing I did", they don't say YOU need to do XXXXX and you too can do this great thing.

Homes and family are a way many women do measure their self-worth, and when they've recently ranted out some hurts, and got some empathy (which is probably all they needed for then), and some sarcasm. Pretty soon, two or three or four of these threads occur. It really doesn't help to be told "YOU" need to do xyz. Now if someone says hey this is what I have, and this is how I did it - maybe it can help you also. It's the same message, and what I really think Melissa meant, but as you can see from all the responses - it did not read that way to a good many and then if someone said something contrary, the people that did read it the way Melissa probably intended sorta jumped the disagreer's case. In doing that, it can appear to be a popularity thing and that's probably where the "Melissa society" comment came from.

So, I really, really think that maybe an unfortunate sentence structure caused a good bit of this, and being inside too much for these homesteading type/gardening/animal people contributed to it.

Angie


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

Dutchie said:


> You aren't starting a war. You are parsing.
> 
> OK ... let me re-phrase. "How can that be perceived as belittling"?


I'll illustrate:
I have a friend. She has arthritis (some days it's bad and some days it's worse) she also has a husband who is in early stage Alzheimers (some days it's bad, some days it's not so bad, some days it's really bad) Both of her kids live out of state. She is used to being able to keep her house clean, do her laundry, shopping, gardening, church etc. But in the past couple of years she's not been able to do as much as she's used to. It's not her fault that her house isn't as clean as it used to be, it's not her fault that her garden isn't weeded as regularly as it used to be, it's not her fault that she has to miss some of her church activities. She has a wonderful attitude, but she's sad that she can't do all of the things she used to do. If she were a member here and read:

Honestly, I don't think most housekeeping/spouse/children problems are technical problems. I don't think the house is messy because it is too small, or too big, or there isn't enough storage space, or no one puts things away, or you have too much stuff. It is messy because your heart isn't in it. Isn't that the real truth?   

She may very well feel like Melissa is saying that her heart isn't in the right place. Even though Melissa would never say that, it could be read that way. AND if she read:

If someone offered you ONE MILLION DOLLARS to keep whatever home you have RIGHT NOW in good order for one month, could you do it? I bet you would (and I am not much of a betting person!) but I bet you would jump up out of your chair right now and you would get busy. And you wouldn't stop until your house was looking pretty spiffy! So you can be motivated, can't you? But does it really take a million dollars to motivate you?   

there's no way my friend could keep her house and garden in order everyday for a month...........not for a million, or 10 million. To read this, might make her feel like she was being judged and found wanting. Again, I want to stress that Melissa wouldn't do this.

(sorry to ramble on, that's just my style  ) But my point is, point of view is everything. And I can understand how it may be possible for someone to misunderstand Melissa's original post. I am not trying to be critical of Melissa at all


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## Irene texas (May 10, 2002)

How many of you remember Irma Bombeck. She said when she cleaned her refrigerator she was always in fear of what may be growning in the back of it and could reach out and grab her. She was a delight to us all, she made fun of her not so clean of a house. She wrote a book , Its always greener over the septic tank. We all need to take a page out of her life and who cares who is a good housekeeper or who isn't. I have to laugh when I finially get around to cleaning my refrigerator as there is always something in there that puzzles me as to what it was once upon a time. Have you ever had a preacher come to your home and his prissy wife. I did a few years back. Well the old gal hated animals and especially cats. So cats love to annoy any one who does not like them. She sat down on my hairy couch and pushed the cats away, all the time telling me I should go to her church. Well finially she said animals really should be out doors. Her husband knew I was getting a bit peeved, and rushed her out of there, all the time saying how nice it would be if you came to church. I love to annoy that type of folks, get my kicks in old age. Hugs.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

OK .... CoalRoadCabin and Irene and everybody else whose shoe will fit. Let me see if I can put this in a way that will get through.

IT ISN'T ABOUT HOUSEKEEPING. IT IS ABOUT ONE'S OUTLOOK ON LIFE. THE HOUSEKEEPING THING WAS USED AS AN EXAMPLE.


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## Irene texas (May 10, 2002)

Dutchie, When you get as old as dirt, then you can tell me what to say. I never said one bad thing to Melissa. Just talked about my own way of doing things. Sure she has a good mind set. Don't we all wish we were that way.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Irene texas said:


> Dutchie, When you get as old as dirt, then you can tell me what to say. I never said one bad thing to Melissa. Just talked about my own way of doing things. Sure she has a good mind set. Don't we all wish we were that way.


And I never said you said anything bad about Melissa. Nor am I telling you what to say. I merely pointed out that you and others are missing the point of her post. Nothing more. :shrug:


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

Dutchie said:


> OK .... CoalRoadCabin and Irene and everybody else whose shoe will fit. Let me see if I can put this in a way that will get through.
> 
> IT ISN'T ABOUT HOUSEKEEPING. IT IS ABOUT ONE'S OUTLOOK ON LIFE. THE HOUSEKEEPING THING WAS USED AS AN EXAMPLE.


Yep, I got that part.  

But if you're going through tough, tough, tough times and it makes you sad then to say that a 'happy attitude' is all you need really doesn't help much, does it? It _is_ okay to be sad. Doesn't make you a bad person, does it? Personally, I got it. Of course, I'm not facing any huge trials and tribulations right now. But, if I were in severe dire straits (health, family or financial) then the whole 'let a smile be your umbrella' might make me feel a bit grouchy. Is that so hard to understand? :shrug:


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

:bdh: 
Anyone else beginning to feel like this?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

CF -
more like


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Not trying to be funny, but I found this smiley....and the topic of this thread... so here it is for your put-downs or enjoyment, as you will..


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

coalroadcabin said:


> Of course, I'm not facing any huge trials and tribulations right now. But, if I were in severe dire straits (health, family or financial) then the whole 'let a smile be your umbrella' might make me feel a bit grouchy. Is that so hard to understand? :shrug:


I can understand that. The weather is finally warming up and I am laying in bed recovering from a mastectomy I underwent last Thursday while I would rather work so I can keep my mind off the question whether or not I need chemo.

But you know what? I do a little attitude adjustment every morning when I wake up .... count my blessings and make the decision that my life will be so much more pleasant if I can see the silver lining.  

Not bad for a pagan gal, eh?


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Cabin Fever said:


> :bdh:
> Anyone else beginning to feel like this?


Actually, yeah  Was wondering where that headache was coming from. Thanks for clearing that up :dance:


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## SunsetSonata (Nov 23, 2006)

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I'm curious about the people who don't understand AT ALL why some people took Melissa's post the wrong way.

I think that if this post were written out of the blue, there wouldn't be quite as many emotional reactions.

However, two people had already started threads about housekeeping problems they were having, which seemed to reveal deeper problems at home. One thread got so heated that it got locked.

Maybe I'm off base, maybe most people had already caught those threads, but if not, I think it would help explain WHY certain comments rubbed people the wrong way. They seemed kind of inappropriate IF read in context as a continuation of the previous threads. She did pretty much say her comments were general musings about housework, but also mentioned that the previous threads spawned those thoughts, making it pretty easy to interpret them as comments directed towards the previous posters. For those people, I'm sure they didn't exactly feel understood.

I've only been here a few months and I don't know much about those two posters other than what they recently posted. As for Melissa, she seems like a good person who did not mean to hurt anyone and should not be made to feel bad. I just don't think she realized how it came across, in context with the other threads. I still question whether those people who seem not to understand AT ALL why someone MIGHT have been hurt by her comments, had actually read the previous threads. Maybe they did and it didn't matter, but I'm just curious.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

coalroadcabin said:


> Yep, I got that part.
> 
> But if you're going through tough, tough, tough times and it makes you sad then to say that a 'happy attitude' is all you need really doesn't help much, does it? It _is_ okay to be sad. Doesn't make you a bad person, does it? Personally, I got it. Of course, I'm not facing any huge trials and tribulations right now. But, if I were in severe dire straits (health, family or financial) then the whole 'let a smile be your umbrella' might make me feel a bit grouchy. Is that so hard to understand? :shrug:


I wholehearted disagree!

A very few people here know what is happening to my health. I don't say anything because everyone has their troubles and heartaches. I will say that if it weren't for the fact that I work hard at keeping a positive attitude, my whole world would change. I flat out refuse to be unhappy. I don't complain even to Roger! Yes maybe "a smile is my umbrella" but it beats getting rained on by tears and discouragement.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Ardie/WI said:


> I wholehearted disagree!
> 
> A very few people here know what is happening to my health. I don't say anything because everyone has their troubles and heartaches. I will say that if it weren't for the fact that I work hard at keeping a positive attitude, my whole world would change. I flat out refuse to be unhappy. I don't complain even to Roger! Yes maybe "a smile is my umbrella" but it beats getting rained on by tears and discouragement.


Amen Sistah! :dance:


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

Ardie/WI said:


> I wholehearted disagree!
> 
> A very few people here know what is happening to my health. I don't say anything because everyone has their troubles and heartaches. I will say that if it weren't for the fact that I work hard at keeping a positive attitude, my whole world would change. I flat out refuse to be unhappy. I don't complain even to Roger! Yes maybe "a smile is my umbrella" but it beats getting rained on by tears and discouragement.



That's great, and I hope that you and Dutchie both find good health real soon. 

If you've never had an unhappy moment during your life, then yeah that's outstanding!!


Now, I've said my piece and made my peace and I'm signing off.


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## Christine in OK (May 10, 2002)

Cabin Fever, I'm with you - :bdh: 

Like Caroline and Tracy both said, the entire thread has been hashed and re-hashed behind the scenes, and concensus was not to edit any of the posts. 

But I think just about everything that can be said beneficial has been said, along with a whole boatload of crap that benefitted no one (yes, I said it).

So, in the interest of giving everyone something else to do, take a look at [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q31nA6LCMxE]this video[/ame] that I received in my email last week. I laughed so hard I had real tears, more than once.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Eager young man, wasn't he? LOL!! Very funny video.


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## Christine in OK (May 10, 2002)

I told Lance (between gasps for air) that I can just see all the little old choir ladies' with their hairdos hanging in their faces...

Now to the real question...can you get grounded for being baptized?


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## tinetine'sgoat (Aug 4, 2005)

OH MY GOODNESS!! My mom and dad would have whooped me within an inch of my life if I tried that. That poor poor preacher, I wonder if bad thoughts in the baptismal are a sin... :hobbyhors


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## okgoatgal2 (May 28, 2002)

i've read almost this entire thread and i'm just amazed. while the "you" statement mentioned could be taken as offensive by a few, i cannot believe anyone who knows melissa would think it a truly mean post. 

however, i can fully understand what melissa was saying. even when we are going through all kinds of troubles, trials and problems, a decent attitude can get us through it. sometimes, people can't develop a decent attitude b/c of depression or whatever. they need help, and maybe someone reading HT will see something to push them towards that help. some people don't want a decent attitude, they enjoy being miserable and grouchy. some people can get to the decent attitude on their own. for me, i get help from music. when i'm stressing out, the song "i'll fly away" goes through my head and reminds me my time on this earth is short, and i'll someday be in a much better place. before i went through my divorce, i was depressed for years (didn't know it) and the only thing that kept me alive was my kids. my x was emotionally abusive, and i never realized it. however, a song played on my radio on my way to school every day for a couple of weeks "call on Jesus" i took that song to heart, and it has become another of my peace songs. i find that having a positive attitude does help me through whatever i'm going through, whether it's a stressful day at work, the kids being just awful, the x being a jerk, a close friend struggling (which makes my heart hurt, too), or the possibility of my dh deploying. i know i can call on Jesus, and He'll get me through whatever it is. no matter how bad it is. i think maybe that was part of the original message-a positive attitude can help us to see the silver lining on the darkest cloud, and there is one, somewhere, if we look for it long enough and hard enough. life is never fair. never has been, never will be, but a positive outlook can make it easier to deal with the stress.


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

Well, I agree with the part about how things are easier for you if you look at the world with a positive attitude but......

I would rather spend 2 hours working in the barn than 15 minutes cleaning up the house! LOL

Not all of us like housework and we shouldn't feel like we _have_ to like it. My house will always be a little on the messy/hairy/dusty side and I really don't care what the neighbours think. People can come in my house and not think they are looking at something straight out of Good Housekeeping or Homes and Gardens. I don't care about what is outdated or what is fashionable for curtains or carpets or furnishings. 

I would rather have people come in and feel comfortable enough to prop their feet up on a footstool and not worry about if they are getting my furniture dirty. I want a homey if still messy home, not a Martha Stewart wannabe house.

My sister has a fancy house and when I go in there, sometimes I feel intimidated....I start to think, "Should I try to achieve this?" and then I say, "No, why do I care, if you think my house isn't fit for your visits, then stay home. No skin off my back." I would rather spend money on things I enjoy, like my horses, not on the newest fad. I am not into impressing people.

I have friends that will come and visit and say they love coming here, it's so comfy and friendly and relaxed...and they also imply that maybe my sister is a tad, er, can I say the word? Anal about neatness. Most people don't enjoy their visits there because they are so afraid the kids will "touch something" or "break something" and it would just not be proper to run in the house or yell or some such thing. One must sit quietly, dahling, and look at all the pretty fancy things. Yuk, I don't want a house like that. (Not that my sister has the attitude that goes with such a house, it's just she likes fashionable stuff).

Ok. I suppose this is not what you were trying to imply.  But it did seem a little too "warm and fuzzy" in terms of how we should be enjoying housework. Some of us women just don't like it and you can't make us! LOL

DD


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

> I visit another board occasionally that has a daily housework thread. When Melissa mentioned getting up with a plan for the day, it reminded me of it. The women who participate list what they would like to accomplish for the day/next day/week. Others would comment and post their plan also. The women would also talk about how close they came to completing their plan.


You're kidding, right? People actually _care_ that much about if they got their housework duties done for the week? Good grief, that sounds, well, almost obssessive.  LOL I hate cleaning enough, I don't want to rehash it for hours over the 'net. Ugh.  


> I am not a good housekeeper. I hate cleaning my house but do it so it doesn't get condemned. There, that is the truth. Now I could overanalyze and say I have deep seated feelings, emotions, or some pyschological "thing" going on that makes me the way I am. But I don't. It's not my child's fault, not my "off the farm" job, not the church's fault, not my parent's fault, nor is it the fault of the tornado that took everything I worked for away in five minutes. It is just the way I am. Housework is drudgery for me, never ending, ceaseless hard work that is boring and a day later, the dust comes back and I have to start over.
> 
> I deal with it because though I do hate the task, I find living in squalor equally hateful. So I reward myself with little bits and bobs. Since I love my barn, and it is spotless (yes it truly is, the aisleway is swept daily, sometimes twice and hosed every other day, the stalls are immaculate, the feed room has NO dust on anything..and the tack room is somewhat organized) I tell myself - do the laundry, while it's going, vacuum the hallway, when that's done - fold the clothes and put them away and then you can go "play" a bit outside. That's my reward for doing house stuff first.


Amen! You've got my vote!


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## bumpus (Jul 30, 2003)

.
I know that house cleaning and other thing a person has to do can really be very overwhelming.

The cure I have will change every thing including the way you look at taking care of the house, weather you are a man or woman it makes no difference, it will work for every one including the children ! ! !

I believe I have a cure for all of this. So don't do anything around the house until I get back with you.


Be patient.


bumpus
.


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## heather (May 13, 2002)

This all reminds me of that song "Dear Abby" by John Prine
_
You have no complaints
You are what you are
and you ain't what you ain't_


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

okgoatgal2 said:


> i've read almost this entire thread and i'm just amazed. while the "you" statement mentioned could be taken as offensive by a few, i cannot believe anyone who knows melissa would think it a truly mean post.
> 
> however, i can fully understand what melissa was saying. even when we are going through all kinds of troubles, trials and problems, a decent attitude can get us through it. sometimes, people can't develop a decent attitude b/c of depression or whatever. they need help, and maybe someone reading HT will see something to push them towards that help. some people don't want a decent attitude, they enjoy being miserable and grouchy. some people can get to the decent attitude on their own. for me, i get help from music. when i'm stressing out, the song "i'll fly away" goes through my head and reminds me my time on this earth is short, and i'll someday be in a much better place. before i went through my divorce, i was depressed for years (didn't know it) and the only thing that kept me alive was my kids. my x was emotionally abusive, and i never realized it. however, a song played on my radio on my way to school every day for a couple of weeks "call on Jesus" i took that song to heart, and it has become another of my peace songs. i find that having a positive attitude does help me through whatever i'm going through, whether it's a stressful day at work, the kids being just awful, the x being a jerk, a close friend struggling (which makes my heart hurt, too), or the possibility of my dh deploying. i know i can call on Jesus, and He'll get me through whatever it is. no matter how bad it is. i think maybe that was part of the original message-a positive attitude can help us to see the silver lining on the darkest cloud, and there is one, somewhere, if we look for it long enough and hard enough. life is never fair. never has been, never will be, but a positive outlook can make it easier to deal with the stress.



DANG I am proud to know you!!


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

okgoatgal2 said:


> i've read almost this entire thread and i'm just amazed. while the "you" statement mentioned could be taken as offensive by a few, i cannot believe anyone who knows melissa would think it a truly mean post.
> 
> however, i can fully understand what melissa was saying. even when we are going through all kinds of troubles, trials and problems, a decent attitude can get us through it. sometimes, people can't develop a decent attitude b/c of depression or whatever. they need help, and maybe someone reading HT will see something to push them towards that help. some people don't want a decent attitude, they enjoy being miserable and grouchy. some people can get to the decent attitude on their own. for me, i get help from music. when i'm stressing out, the song "i'll fly away" goes through my head and reminds me my time on this earth is short, and i'll someday be in a much better place. before i went through my divorce, i was depressed for years (didn't know it) and the only thing that kept me alive was my kids. my x was emotionally abusive, and i never realized it. however, a song played on my radio on my way to school every day for a couple of weeks "call on Jesus" i took that song to heart, and it has become another of my peace songs. i find that having a positive attitude does help me through whatever i'm going through, whether it's a stressful day at work, the kids being just awful, the x being a jerk, a close friend struggling (which makes my heart hurt, too), or the possibility of my dh deploying. i know i can call on Jesus, and He'll get me through whatever it is. no matter how bad it is. i think maybe that was part of the original message-a positive attitude can help us to see the silver lining on the darkest cloud, and there is one, somewhere, if we look for it long enough and hard enough. life is never fair. never has been, never will be, but a positive outlook can make it easier to deal with the stress.


I'm with you 100%!


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## cindyc (Nov 12, 2005)

OK... how's this for "putting yourself out there"...
I am not a great housekeeper. A few years ago, without going into gut wrenching detail, as some of you know, my dh was laid off from his job at a time where his market sector basically pulled out of the area. NOBODY in his field could get work. People lost everything they had. People took their lives... This went on for two years. One reason our church did not help us was my "poor housekeeping skills". (understand my house was messy, but never filthy. The dishes get cleaned every day, that sort of thing).They said that God was taking away what I didn't take care of. Basically, they let us (and my five innocent kids) become homeless over this issue, and some other false judgements they made about my husband. 
AFTER that happened I was diagnosed with some severe learning and eye tracking problems that made it very difficult for me to manage anything to do with spatial order. I manage other things quite well, but not this. I have been going through a re-training process with an educational psychologist recently, and reading some things about HOW to do this that will work for me with my specific challenges. But it NEVER dawned on the decision makers at that church (who felt homelessness was a fitting punishment for poor housekeeping) that there might be a REASON for it besides laziness or a bad attitude. 
I tell you this for the benefit of those who do not understand why this post was met with such resistance. You have no idea what kind of judgement a woman can come under for deficits in this area if you have not been there. 

I am not uspet about by the original post though... As far as I can tell, Mellissa has never done anything but try to help people here. There were truths in her words. I know that when I feel defeated in an area it is really hard to feel differently, and just up-and-do-better, but it is still TRUE that MY attitude does not HELP. SO, I can take it on face value that her attempt to bring that to my attention was an attempt to help me because she is that kind of person. I do not have to filter her words through my past experience. She does not deserve that. The educational psychologist I work with agrees with her, BTW. Finding the energy to TRY (to fight the shut-down mechanism humans employ when unable to feel successful at something) is HALF the battle of learning to do it better. 
I am SO tired of seeing this issue polarize women, guys. Perhaps we can leave it at this... If you are good at this, great! SEE and have empathy for those who are not. Understand that we always hear judgement in an attempt to help us because there REALLY HAS BEEN alot of judgement over this issue in our lives! If you are like me, and you are NOT good at this, understand that we always hear judgement in an attempt to help us! That does not mean it is there in all cases. If you think we are making a big deal out of a non-issue, because this is not important to you, laugh at us from afar, please. We have our reasons for caring, as you have your reasons for not doing so. 
Hope that is helpful, because it was really hard to write. I just don't want to see good people misfire at each other anymore. If this forum is going to be safe and supportive it will be because that is what we make it. Being right sometimes has a price to pay that is beyond it's value. LISTENING... that is usually a good thing.

For what it is worth,
Cindyc.


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## cricket (Dec 15, 2004)

I've been keeping up with this thread but not responded, well, because I also read it from "holier than thou" standpoint and was also kind of offended. Yeah, I clean house - although dh would argue that pint - but I DESPISE it. I would rather eat ground glass and have my tongue nailed to the door. As much as I hate it, I hate dusting in particular even more. Really. I dust 2x a year...Once before X-mas and once when the decorations come down. I used to be OCD about it...And then I had kids and critters and a life. My attitude is 1) They live here, you don't. Get over it or leave. 2) Chances are you're going to have fur, feathers, or dirt on you when you leave. Be glad it isn't worse. 3) you can come to visit but if you come to see my house, my door opens out too. 4) Sometimes my house is cleaner than others. You can judge how busy my life is by how many dustballs there are. 

It was a brand new world when I got a Rainbow vacuum cleaner though. Did you know those suckers will dust? Perhaps not well, but it'll knock the top layer off anyway. 

I made a decision when I had kids not to forego having a life. I have included them in it too...And when you do that, something has to give and it was my house. I reckon that when the kids are gone and I'm too old to drive anymore, my house will be clean again. I lived with someone who was OCD and a germ-a-phobe to boot. It was flipping miserable. We couldn't play in the house. We couldn't DO anything because we might make a mess. You couldn't walk away from a book to go potty without him picking it up and putting it in the freaking bookcase. I didn't not want my kids knowing that sort of life. They have to be kids first and foremost. 

Don't get me wrong...My house isn't filthy by any means. But I also don't clean the stupid baseboards on a regular basis either.


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## Audrey (Jun 19, 2002)

Nope, not kidding Dixydoodle! And I guess it might sound a bit obsessive. But from what I could tell, it wasn't really. Their plans were loose ones and noone was stressed if the plan wasn't completed. It just seemed a social way to be accountable and share their housekeeping struggles and triumphs. They seem to like it. Personally, I do a modified Fly Lady approach. I would probably follow it more closely if I were accountable. That's why I thought their approach might be helpful.

This will blow you away since you got a kick out of the housekeeping forum. :baby04: They also have a homemaking board which is sort of like our cooking and crafts forum here. LOL! But the main topic of the whole board is homeschooling in case you were wondering.

I'm in no way trying to convince you of anything. I just wanted to explain it better.

   
Audrey


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

> You have no idea what kind of judgement a woman can come under for deficits in this area if you have not been there.


Yep, I agree. What I resent is the idea that we feel we _should have to_ convince ourselves to enjoy housework, as if it's a given that women are required to, just because they are women and it's _their job._ 


> Don't get me wrong...My house isn't filthy by any means. But I also don't clean the stupid baseboards on a regular basis either.


The first time I heard of someone doing that, I thought "people really do that?" LOL I only wiped them off if I saw dirt on them. 


> I'm in no way trying to convince you of anything. I just wanted to explain it better.


 Oh don't worry, you will never convince me to do more housework than I do now!  

Has anyone ever seen the show "How Clean Is Your House"? They take the worst of the worst dirty houses imaginable and convert them into spotless wonders, and even feature the owners (and their excuses) in the segment. I admit to watching that, some of the houses are so totally digusting, it's hilarious! Cat poos overflowing the litter box, dirty undies scattered around, kitchens that had brown floors (and not from the tile colour, either)....you just watch it and say Ewwwwww! The two British ladies that star in it seem to take enjoyment in touching/smelling everything, too! Maybe I enjoy the show because it makes me feel like I have a spotless house. LOL In any event, if your house is considered "too clean" to be a candidate for this show, you are doing enough housework, IMO.


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## Hetty (Oct 29, 2005)

Melissa, That old saying comes to my mind if I can quote it correctly-never judge another man till you have walked a day in his moccassins (sp)


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## Tamalama (Mar 16, 2005)

but help some, like it helps me.......
ATTITUDE

" The longer I live, the more I realize the
impact of attitude on life. Attitude, to me,
is more important than facts.
It is more important than the past, than
education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, giftedness, or skill. 
It will make or break 
a company ... a church ... a home.
The remarkable thing is we have a choice every day regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. 

We cannot change our past ...
we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. 
We cannot change the inevitable.
The only thing that we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude ...
I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it. 
And so it is with you ... 
we are in charge of our Attitudes."

- Charles Swindoll -​


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## tooltime (Nov 16, 2003)

If a job gets done, I really think one's enjoyment of it is secondary. Some jobs I like -- including others many don't -- and some I don't, but I do them and I take pride in my work. 

I never thought of cleaning toilets and cleaning out farrowing crates "for the Lord." As Dad told us when we were kids: "that manure ain't going to shovel itself." You do things because they have to be done.

I understand the importance of having a positive attitude toward finding contentment and happiness in life, but people don't have to have a smile on their face and a song in their hearts every waking moment of every day. 

One puzzling aspect of the original post is that attitude adjustment is suggested for the doer (housekeeper). A lot of times, attitude adjustment is required of the other occupants of the home. Appreciate the efforts of one's mother and father, respect their hard work and show your gratitude.

The other observation I'd have is that if you don't like it when people disagree with you, then don't post. It gets real old that every time some people disagree with certain posters, they're told they "misunderstand the point." It also gets old that people play the martyr card every time someone dares to criticize them. (Not saying criticism is necessary, but hey, you can't control other people's reactions.)

At the end of the day, if your method works for you, is it really important what other people do or think? Moreover, is it important (or even wise) to hold forth diagnosing other people's deficiencies without much information.

Now, I'll sit back and wait to be told how much I misunderstand the thread.


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## Mr.Dad (Feb 17, 2007)

tooltime said:



> If a job gets done, I really think one's enjoyment of it is secondary. Some jobs I like -- including others many don't -- and some I don't, but I do them and I take pride in my work.
> 
> I never thought of cleaning toilets and cleaning out farrowing crates "for the Lord." As Dad told us when we were kids: "that manure ain't going to shovel itself." You do things because they have to be done.
> 
> ...


When my wife gets home I'm drinking a beer or two and reading this post again....cheers :buds: :goodjob:


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## heather (May 13, 2002)

tooltime said:


> Now, I'll sit back and wait to be told how much I misunderstand the thread.


You "mis-understand-er" You! :nono:


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## Jillis (Sep 11, 2005)

Cricket and tooltime, I found both your posts very refreshing---balanced and realistic.


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## titansrunfarm (Aug 14, 2005)

Tooltime rocks!

LIVE and let LIVE!!!


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## MicheleMomof4 (Jul 17, 2002)

> At the end of the day, if your method works for you, is it really important what other people do or think?


Exactly her point. You said you don't want to be told you didn't misunderstand her post. Well, then did you not read this line? 


> There will be those who don't agree with me and that is OK, this is not for you.


She says very clearly that this is for those who are looking for help and this is what works for HER.



> Moreover, is it important (or even wise) to hold forth diagnosing other people's deficiencies without much information.


You just gave advice as well or rather what works for you. You also said...


> I never thought of cleaning toilets and cleaning out farrowing crates "for the Lord."


Fine that works for you. But for some of us, *everything* we do is for the Lord. And the Lord instructs us to do with a happy heart. No matter the job big or small. If you don't believe that and choose to believe that it gets done cause whatever you think, that is fine by me. To each their own. So why can you say that doing it "for the Lord" doesn't work for you, but she can not say what works for her? There is no difference. 



> The other observation I'd have is that if you don't like it when people disagree with you, then don't post.


There is a difference in saying, I don't agree and being called names such as a Stepford wife and Little Miss Perfect Melissa. There were plently who disagreed,*respectfully*. 



> One puzzling aspect of the original post is that attitude adjustment is suggested for the doer (housekeeper). A lot of times, attitude adjustment is required of the other occupants of the home. Appreciate the efforts of one's mother and father, respect their hard work and show your gratitude.


The only difference is that you can not change anyone but yourself. I choose to be happy and look on the bright side of things. As my Granny use to say, you draw more flies to honey than vinegar. So I suspect that because of that and other reasons my children are more inclined to be happy, respectful and have gratitude for the work I do. When you are appericated, you tend to want to give more. 
That is just what works for me.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

I do appreciate all of the thoughts and input on this thread. I truly never meant it to be hurtful to anyone or to single out any poster in any way. Now I am going to lock this thread.


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