# Cutting castration gone wrong?



## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

This is a wether owned by a friend of mine. Pictures taken about a week after cut castration was done by a vet. He was painful, swollen, required antibiotics. Owner is taking great care of the little guy, cleaning it and applying iodine/blue kote and keeping flies off. Owner gave a round of pencillin per vet orders. 

I went over to give my opinion and take a look. Palpated the scrotum to much pain... It is NOT intestine, I'm pretty sure - butchered enough critters to know the difference, and he'd be dead by now (it's been about a week since these pics were taken, about 2 weeks or so since castration was done). The other side feels like it has the same sausage-like piece inside the scrotum and into the body cavity. Is it the cord, just swollen and extremely inflamed? It as big as a large sausage link, blunt ended. Poor guys whole belly was touchy - either he was scared we were going to touch it, or the whole area was painful. 

These pics were emailed to the vet who did the job, and the reply was that 1 in 10 cut jobs result in 'this'. I've never seen or heard of this - and don't even know what to call it. Vet claims normal. What do you all think? What is it? Should anything else be done besides keep it clean and dry as possible?


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## gunnar wordon (Jun 13, 2012)

oh my god! thats awful! are those maggots?


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

That is NOT normal. I've cut enough lambs and seen enough bulls cut and never saw something like that. What in the world did that vet do? Just curious, but why did he get cut instead of banded? I usually only like to cut them when they're really young.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

NO NOT maggots. That's pine bedding stuck to it. The area LOOKS really good, but he's gotta lay down sometime and it is an open wound. They're keeping his area bedded with clean pine shavings as best they can.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

I'd say just keep up what they're doing, and maybe cold hose or ice it several times a day to get the swelling down. Hope he makes it, poor guy!


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## secretcreek (Jan 24, 2010)

If no fever, than give Banamine for no more than three days to reduce pain,swelling, and encourage a good appetite. * I sure wouldn't ever use ice or a hose with cold water...too much shock to an open wound. * Poor guy would never let you touch his underside ever again. Go to diff. vet for second opinion, if possible. 

-scrt crk


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## CJBegins (Nov 20, 2009)

I had a piglet do that once after castration. My guess was it is the vas deferens and is very swollen. I was unsure what to do about it and watched it for about a week. It didn't get any worse or better, so we caught it and I was messing with it and realized that it had to be the tube that connects the testicle to the urinary tract-vas deferens. So, as horrible as it sounds, I scrubbed it up really well and pulled it out a little farther and then cut it short enough so that it would go under the skin. It was healed in just a few days. I was mortified and couldn't figure out what I did wrong. I think sometimes either the tube is longer than normal and swells from trauma or the right length didn't get cut off to begin with. 

That's what I did.....and it worked out well.
Carla


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## Ranger (Aug 6, 2010)

Try using Vetericyn Wound Care. You can get it at Tractor Supply. It's a little pricey, but it's great. You just spray it on a couple of times a day. I would also be looking for another vet ASAP!!!! I've had bucks cut by the vet, and that is NOT what should be happening.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I'm pretty sure expensive Vetericyn spray is simply saline with some bleach in it.


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## dbarjacres (Feb 2, 2004)

Eww. Not normal! They really cut the sac up high and I'm guessing thats a big swollen cord hanging out as i had a 10 yo mammoth donkey gelding do that when he had a castration gone wrong.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

I've used saline with bleach before and I've used Vetricyn. If it's the same thing, I need their bleach. A chicken ripped up by a dog was regrowing feathers on new skin in under 2 weeks and a doe's thigh that was degloved (stripped) by a dog (different dog, different owner) healed without a scar in less than 2 months. Expensive, yes. Part of my med kit? You better believe it! YMMV, but I believe my eyes (BTW, wasn't my Vetricyn I used, even. I have it now, though.)


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## Ranger (Aug 6, 2010)

CarloT, my new Nubian buckling sliced his leg wide open last Saturday. It was bad enough that if it hadn't been right where the leg joins the chest it would have taken at least 7 or 8 stitches. I got the Vetricyn on it and it's nearly healed up already. I love it.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Ingredients for Vetericyin wound spray that I could find : Electrolyzed water (99.97%), sodium chloride (0.23%), sodium hypochlorite (0.004%), hypochlorous acid (0.003%). From Vetericyn Wound & Infection Treatment Veterinary Information from Drugs.com

Wiki on electrolyzed water: Electrolysed water - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently, the elctrolysis of tap water with salts produces a weak solution of sodium hypochlorite - or bleach. Sounds like a very expensive, inefficient way to go about adding bleach to water. :hysterical: Though it does say the solution resulting is slightly acidic, whereas a bleach solution is likely going to be basic. Either way, the disinfectant component IS the bleach component, from what I understand. A weak bleach solution would not be harmful if it was slightly basic. I use a fairly strong bleach solution as an udder wash 2x per day, for goodness sakes.  

It also isn't stable like all bleach solutions, and disspates rather quickly. So these expensive bottles don't even have a long shelf life. 

Nope, I'd make a bleach solution to put on an animal, but I'm not going to pay that kinda money for an unstable, easily made solution. Especially because it sounds like they're just doing some fancy zapping of tap water then having you pay out the nose for it.  

It may work and that's all fine and dandy - my argument is, it's probably not worth the price paid when there's other alternatives just as good. Just IMO.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yes, the Vetericyn is a scam. Fancy blue bottle with water and a drop of dilute chemical. Lots of money.


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## southernmom86 (Jan 16, 2009)

Oh poor thing! That's just horrible.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

This is the vetrricyn I use...It's the vet formula that is a bit different from the blue bottle stuff. Vetericyn VF Wound & Infection Treatment Veterinary Information from Drugs.com
I have had a hot spot on Boris completely go from "oozing hot" to "I can't even find where it was!" in 12 hours. Hair regrowth is so much better with this product. I wonder if reg bleach and saline would do that? I have a hen that was scalped with most of her scull exposed...she healed up great. I use it on my own scratches and what not. Maybe coincidence and the stuff that I healed up would have healed up quickly anyway. IDK. What would the bleach to saline ratio be if I wanted to make my own???


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I'm wondering if placing a band in a normal place wouldn't just cause the entire area to drop off and be done with it. I'm worried to go in and cut above it, I wonder about bleeding risk. Plus it's pretty well stuck by healing tissues by now. We don't have many vets in the area, and no good 'goat vets'. The only other one I can think of I trust even less than the one that was used... especially with goats. Most vets are good for horses/cows, but not goats.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

mygoat said:


> I'm wondering if placing a band in a normal place wouldn't just cause the entire area to drop off and be done with it. I'm worried to go in and cut above it, I wonder about bleeding risk. Plus it's pretty well stuck by healing tissues by now. We don't have many vets in the area, and no good 'goat vets'. The only other one I can think of I trust even less than the one that was used... especially with goats. Most vets are good for horses/cows, but not goats.


I think a vet would know if banding would help even if they don't know goats. I would at least ask because it sounds like a good idea to me.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

The only difference is that it has sodium phosphate instead of sodium hypochlorate.
I don't know what difference it makes, but considering they probably just put a different kind of salt into the water that they do their fancy electrocution to, it's probably still not worth the cost involved.  

I did google sodium phosphate, and turns out it's what enemas are made of. Still not going to pay extra for their fancy label.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Just looking at the pic again...he may be too swollen up top to band  What a mess!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Is he on Banamine? Sorry if I missed it..


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Minelson said:


> I think a vet would know if banding would help even if they don't know goats. I would at least ask because it sounds like a good idea to me.


We could ask his opinion. This is a vet that will probably say "It's just a goat" and get off the phone, however. I use them mainly for getting Rx stuff, that's about it.


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

It don't look like you could even get a band around it now it's so swollen. That poor thing.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Yeah, you're right, probably too swollen to band up there. Might cause more problems if we did. 

*sigh* No banamine. I'm hoping for a new pic of the issue, to see what it looks like NOW. I may not have been clear, but those pics were taken a week ago, and his castration was done a week BEFORE that. If he's still swollen, I'll suggest banamine to bring down swelling and for pain. 

When I was there (Helped take these pictures), he was running around and getting into trouble. Eating, drinking... only painful when the area was approached or touched.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I know you said they were spraying with Blue Kote & keeping the flies off it But I'm wondering about the Screw Worm spray that you can get from the vet, it has an antibiotic in it so it's different than the stuff you can buy at TSC. May help clear it up a little Quicker.

I've never seen a goat or anything cut/castrated before. I've always banded when it needed to be done & never had a problem. This year however I had 1 little buckling that got infected about 4 weeks after banding. Took him to the vet & he said it was from the heat, humidity, oisture getting under the band & festering. Vet gave me antibiotics & cut the band off & I sprayed him everyday with Blue Kote then the Screw worm spray. 
He's now all healed up & the sack fell off. The other buckling I banded the same day never got an infection but his sack hasn't fallen off yet either.

I thought after the problems I had this year I'd have the vet show me how to castrate next time but now I may not. Thank gosh no more to do for at least another year so I have time to figure it out.

I sure hope the little guy heals up good but the poor little thing looking like that would really worry me.


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## phantomriver (Nov 26, 2010)

I'm gonna say the vet has a problem if 1 out of 10 get this. Could it be hypergranular tissue? I'm not a goat wound expert but spent plenty of time as a wound care nurse and around horse wounds. If it is hypergranular it is going to have to be removed to skin level, kept debrided and moisture controlled to heal...either through caustic measures or surgically. With that volume non-surgical debridement could be time consuming. Caustic options might be cfleaning with peroxide and then Wonder dust is popular in horses, in humans I've used silver nitrate before but that is the only non-rx I can think of off the top of my head. You might achieve some degree of mechanical removal if you could alternate damp to dry dressing changes but I don't think it would stay on well. Regarding Vetericyn, look up Dakin's solution. It is probably the human equivalent and NOT shelf stable long at all.


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## Ford Zoo (Jan 27, 2012)

This is the first I've seen reference to Vetericyn. PhantomRiver, I agree it sounds the same as Dakin, and that stuff can work wonders too. 

If someone was going to try to mix their own, keep in mind that after so many hours of sitting diluted in water, bleach converts back to a simple salt. After 24 hours it is safe to drink, hence it is added to drinking water in some emergent situations when there is no other option for purifying.


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## MissKitty (Mar 16, 2005)

He just wasn't castrated...he was butchered!...Cut way to high!..


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

I would gently ice it several times a day, cover the ice with a thin towel. I would also give banamine. When the swelling reduced I would band him and get it over with. It looks terrible.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

I have nothing to offer or add, but I am going out with the BluKote to check on our banded wethers....


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Oh God....he did not do that the right way at *ALL*. I would be calling him up and reading him the riot act. It looks as if he did not even remove that testicle. This is awful.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Sorry, I am just aghast. I have never seen a castration of any kind look this bad, not even when my brother's cat was done at home with a rubber band. The vet needs to fix this at no charge, right away, and if he refuses he needs to be called in for malpractice. This is horrific. If he didn't know how to castrate an animal, he should have said so rather than giving it a try.


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## Steph in MT (Sep 26, 2004)

Ow! Ow! Ow!!!! Poor guy! That looks horrible! :shocked:


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Well he did get both testes - there isn't any in the sac when I palpated and owner said they watched the vet as he tossed both of them to their dog... 

I think that the exposed, meaty-sausage looking part is the seminal vessel/vas deferens It runs from teste into the body. For whatever reason it was cut to long, or the scrotum was cut to short, or it pulled free too far internally - tissue has granulated and is simply exposed flesh. 

I got a better timeline: 

Castration performed 6/13. 
original Pictures taken 6/23

As an update, the owner called the vet and complained about the large bill they recieved for the bad castration job. The vet said he'd come out and 'band' the 'vessel' if it doesn't resolve itself - for free - but that they should wait a month to see if he heals up! I suggested to the owner that they place the band in the 'normal' position and just get rid of the whole mess. Poor dude. 

Here's a pic from 7/4










Looks like the swelling is down, which is why I'm thinking a band may fix the problem, placed normally. From the SOUNDS of it, the vet suggested that they place a band ON The enlarged vessel itself to get that particular part to drop off. Something tells me there's not enough flesh there to constrict properly - I imagine it would hurt like heck even MORE.


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## Ranger (Aug 6, 2010)

Gee, what a great vet. Glad he's not mine!


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

I think the vet needs to see that picture, and that other vets might need to see it too, if he doesn't think this is a problem. Disgusting.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm thinking he needs surgery to repair it. I would not use the same vet. Wait a month????? that is insane. The whole thing needs to be removed and stitched up. I wouldn't band it at this point....it's just too messed up


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Honestly if he were mine, I would take pics, mail to whatever organization gives the vet his license, and butcher the kid early...unless he was meant to be a lifelong pet.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

She should band it asap. Sooner its banded sooner it will be numb.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

The original pictures WERE sent to the vet. He claimed 1 in 10 resulted in this. I think the owner talked to HIS boss/coworker vet when they called to complain about a very large bill for the castration-done-wrong, and that 2nd coworker vet said it's not common but does happen. 

I don't think it's a lost cause or requires surgery... I think a band placed would get rid of the mess... I'll be seeing the owner tomorrow and I was going to discuss how he's doing and what she might like to do from here. I have a diffrent friend coming over to learn how to butcher her extra wethers, I could invite her as they have mentioned just butchering him - dunno if they've done it before but I'd be willing to help either band him or butcher him depending on their plans. From what I understand, he's eating, drinking, not acting in pain... little puss returned though.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

If 10% of his castrations result in this, he is incompetent.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I would definately be looking for a different vet if he thinks that little buck is normal looking after his castration job.

Dona, I sure wish when your out of vet school you lived closer so you could be our goat vet!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

This reminds me of those 2 babies that were disbudded wrong by the University teacher. sucks


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## Linsay2231 (May 1, 2011)

When I castrated my first batch of piglets alone without the help of my father, the exact same thing happened to one of them! After a few days of it still sticking out I called my dad and he came over to take a look. It took him all of 2 seconds to know that I had not cut high enough on the cord and that is what was sticking out. I scrubbed up, grabbed the swollen tube and pulled it out far enough to get a good clean cut higher up (I did this all very quickly because I knew it hurt :-( He bled quite a bit for about 10 minutes, then looked exactly the same as all the other good piglets and healed up the same as the rest of them  Looks to me like he just needs his cord "trimmed" so it's not hanging out.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

secretcreek said:


> If no fever, than give Banamine for no more than three days to reduce pain,swelling, and encourage a good appetite. * I sure wouldn't ever use ice or a hose with cold water...too much shock to an open wound. * Poor guy would never let you touch his underside ever again. Go to diff. vet for second opinion, if possible.
> 
> -scrt crk


Cold hosing is recommended with many, many injuries, including castrations. The cold feels good and reduces swelling.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

The thing is that when I castrated, I always pulled the testicle, cord and all out until it snapped, to reduce the risk of bleeding. The sac was more or less empty by the time I was done. I quit castrating, but if for some awful reason I were to do it again, this was the most humane, least complicated method. There shouldn't be a cord or anything left to be hanging out of there like that.


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