# Demodex mange help realy needed



## renee o'neill (May 10, 2002)

Ok long story short I took in 2 pups at 6 weeks because the owner was unable to take care of them and the mom wanted nothing to do with them.Fast forward a few months,both pups came down w/ the mange took them to the vet and they were treated and seemed to clear up.1 pup had a bad reaction to the dip so that was stopped.Charlie the pup who reacts to dip started back w/ the mange again we were giving him ivemec every 3 weeks at .5 cc,well he is now 30% covered w/ seconddary infection,as a last resort the vet is asking me to give him .5 cc of ivermec everyday for 1 month w/ the understanding it could kill him.We have tried every other known med on him and the mites just wont die.I hate knowing i could kill him by doing this.He is about 10 mon old breed unknow mom is some heeler in her dad or dads should I say unknown .i say dads because Charlie looks shar pi and his brother is long haired black and grey.I also now have a 3rd pup from the litter because he was going to be put down because he is deaf and some what blind.3rd pup had mange horibble but got over it on ivermec once every 3 weeks.I know this litter is very unhealthy geneticly,any ideas? i hate almost killing charlie so the bugs will die.Thanks


----------



## renee o'neill (May 10, 2002)

oops just saw the other post I will read up.....


----------



## GoldenMom (Jan 2, 2005)

How big is Charlie? Typically ivermectin needs to be given on a daily basis for an extended amount of time (at least 6-8 weeks) to get rid of demodex. If he were sensitive to that amount of ivermectin, I'd imagine you'd have seen signs of that by now. If he's not sensitive, I wouldn't have any thoughts that using the ivermectin in that manner would kill him. Yes, it's an off-label use of ivermectin, but is used routinely in veterinary medicine for this use. Depending on Charlie's size, 0.5 cc doesn't seem excessive (unless he's a little squirt).


----------



## renee o'neill (May 10, 2002)

he is about 52lbs.I saw the other thread and I will be making his food starting in the a.m. Is there any way to boost his immune system? these three boys are a great example of why to fix your pets!


----------



## MARYDVM (Jun 7, 2004)

Have you tried Promeris? It is a flea and tick spot on that is also approved for Demodex treatment/control. I saw great response on a dog a client found by the roadside with about 3 hairs on its whole body and claw marks all over its face where it was scratching its skin off in chunks. We had to keep him on the Promeris long term, with occasional other treatment for allergies and infections. It worked much better than ivermectin.


----------



## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I have a GSP that is now 5 years old that was diagnosed as a puppy with Demodex. He wasn't reactive to the dip, but when I was looking into treatment options I was told to give ivermectin daily as well. I'm not sure what the dosage would be.


----------



## renee o'neill (May 10, 2002)

Promeris,yes we tried after 31/2 weeks still had live mites on him.I guess its ivemec....


----------



## GoldenMom (Jan 2, 2005)

That dose almost seems a bit low if you are using regular 1% ivermectin, but that might not be what you are using. Definitely follow your vet's instructions! But don't worry that you are killing your dog.


----------



## MARYDVM (Jun 7, 2004)

I don't find much benefit in checking for live mites early on - just look for improvement in symptoms. In a dog with generalized demodex, I've never seen mites completely eliminated. Just controlled. No matter what treatment is used, generalized demodecosis is a lifetime battle.
For the dog i mentioned earlier, we applied Promeris every 3 weeks, as is recommended for severe cases.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I'm not sure what the dosage would be.


It's normally 1/*10th* ML per 10 Lbs body wait given orally, daily, until a couple of weeks after all symptoms disappear


----------



## Navotifarm (Dec 16, 2009)

In the rabbit forum some months back there was a discussion on rabbits with ear mites. Sevin dust was recommended as the other medications are toxic to rabbits. Also mineral oil. Would sevin be a good resolution to this problem?


----------



## renee o'neill (May 10, 2002)

I am covering any spots now with bag balm as thick as I can in hopes of suficating the mites,he is on cephalexin and his fever is gone today,so are the amount of puss filled hair shafts.I cant believe how fast it came on this time,before it was a spot here and there now its his face ,neck and base of tail w/ more areas showing signs.The other 2 got it bad and then nothing maybe from it getting so bad their bodies started to fight back?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Would sevin be a good resolution to this problem?


It "might" work, but why experiment when there's a PROVEN remedy?
(Assuming your breed can use Ivomec)



> CURRENT TREATMENT OF CHOICE -- IVERMECTIN
> 
> Ivermectin is a broad spectrum anti-parasite medication with a number of uses though
> its use in treating demodicosis is not approved by the FDA. When ivermectin was a new drug it was hoped that it could be used against demodectic mange mites as at that time only fairly toxic dips were available and incurable cases were common. After some experimentation it was found that daily or every other day dosing is necessary for effective demodicosis treatment and soon *ivermectin was felt unequivocally to be the drug of choice for this condtion.* Note that the weekly protocols that work for other parasites simply do not work on Demodex mites.


http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_demodectic_mange.html


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Ivermectin used in this way supresses the immune system and takes over. Since dogs with D mange are in poor health/stressed they need help with their immune system. I think this is why Ivermectin seems to help, because it is giving the dog a better immune system for the time being. However, there are other ways to boost the natural immune system and I have found that this works better. I can understand, though, that most people will find it much easier to give a prescribed dose of Iver rather than trying to sort out another venue.


----------



## renee o'neill (May 10, 2002)

Maura , could you please give me some info.? I am more then willing to try anything for him.I hate all these meds. but I cant let him suffer so much. After seeing the slide of his skin I cant stop itching!


----------



## renee o'neill (May 10, 2002)

Ok this past week Charlie has not been doing well so as vets recomendations we went to every other day w/ ivermec alittle more energy tries to play but now he is scratching himself till he just bleeds his eyes are very red and he wont stop drinking water.Nothing has changed,no new food no new meds nothing.....he will eat but almost seems to fall asleep just standing or sitting any ideas? thanks


----------



## Willowynd (Mar 27, 2005)

Here is a thought- what are you feeding Charlie? I have seen generalized demodectic mange not respond to treatment until a different diet was tried -something novel like lamb and rice, chicken and oatmeal (if he has not had chicken before), duck and potatoe or fish and sweet potatoe, etc. My theory is that there was an allergy or at the very least something that was a borderline allergen that the compromised immune system could not handle. The best think to try would be raw IMO, but a grain free or lower allergen grains/carbohydrate source may work too.


----------



## GoldenMom (Jan 2, 2005)

It could definitely be an allergy-something to look into.

Is he on an antibiotic? If not, he should be if he's got that much open skin. Maybe your vet would OK Benadryl too if his eyes are all red.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

When mine had it I used this to help with secondary infection:

http://www.horse.com/item/mane-n-ta...ferralID=a04ca1aa-4513-11df-9fc3-000423c27407

*Mane N Tail Pro-Tect Medicated Shampoo*



> Effective against skin problems associated with bacteria, yeast, mold, fungi and viruses.
> Broad-spectrum activity protects against difficult to identify opportunistic microorganisms.
> Safe for shampooing animals with skin injuries including cuts, tears and abrasions.
> Can be used to treat existing skin problems and also as a preventative when used regularly.
> ...


----------



## renee o'neill (May 10, 2002)

bad news update,,, Charlie is now going after me,cant figure out what is wrong with my poor guy.He out of the blue went after his brother I was right there and put my foot up just to block incase something happened he grabbed my leg and would not let go.I did not panic but raised my voice he stopped stood there then grabbed me again. Some one help! my vet wont be in town till Tue.I am just stopping everything at this point,


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I know this litter is very *unhealthy geneticly*,any ideas





> Charlie is now going after me





> grabbed my leg and would not let go


I'd do away with all of them
You could waste hundreds of dollars on him at the Vet's and STILL have an uncontrolable, unhealthy dog , when you didn't PLAN on getting a dog to start with


----------



## renee o'neill (May 10, 2002)

I just dont know...Logialy yes he should be put down but I am not logical all the time.


----------



## Willowynd (Mar 27, 2005)

"Ok this past week Charlie has not been doing well so as vets recomendations we went to every other day w/ ivermec alittle more energy tries to play but now he is scratching himself till he just bleeds his eyes are very red "

The dog is miserable. I am not surprised he went after the other dog and you as well when you tried to intervene. I normally don't humanize animals nor make excuses for a dog that bites, but in cases like this...think a moment. You have been scratching yourself raw and bloody and the itch won't go away..how would you react if someone touches your raw, itchy body? Now lets put this in dog perspective. Dog has a scuffle...human gets in the way and hurts it by touching raw skin (unintentionally in this case)...dog reacts with the only part of its body that doesn't hurt. 
I don't blame the dog for biting in this case...and if the males are not neutered- they are going to start having bad disputes over rank. Littermates do this- which is why it is suggested littermates not be kept together. Normally I would suggest NILIF for both pups...but in this case the one pup is ill. It would be kindest to keep them apart and try to prevent any contact to his raw skin from people even unless needed....and I would suggest muzzling him when you need to touch it.
You never commented on his diet...


----------



## lauriej57 (Nov 20, 2008)

I have Rocky, who has a terrible skin condition. Scrapings showed it to be ringworm, but, it looks like mange. The vet has finally admitted that it can't be ringworm, regardless of what the scraping show. He's been treated for mange, it helped some at first, then started to get bad again. He suggest a biopsy, which means anesthesia, testing, $200 to do it, and then the costs of treatments if the biopsy actually discovers just what it is.

So, I've been doing alot of research on my own. One of the things I've been doing is giving him Vitamin E daily, and absolutely nothing to eat except his dog food, and we are seeing some improvement. His biggest problem is around his head and his ears. I would love to put the Vitamin E directly on it, rather than in pill form, but this has been going on for so long, he won't allow us to put it on. He has become really testy, and he doesn't have an itch, but it has to bother him, or he wouldn't be testy about it. 

Almost all dogs have the mites that cause mange, it's only the ones with lower immune systems who have real problems with it. Even with ringworm, by 8 months old, a dog with a good immune system will fight it off on their own.

I have three other dogs, and they don't have whatever Rocky has. My next step will be food, but that can also become costly trying this and that.

When a dog (or even a human) is in constant pain, they are going to act out. In the case of a dog, their acting out is going to be to bite.


----------

