# Are silver fox worth the money?



## fatboy (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm trying to raise meat rabbits and I have heard of a few people that raise silver foxes, are they worth the expensive price tag attached to them? I think they are a beautiful rabbit but I could get 4 or 5 new Zealand's for what 1 silver fox costs! Any opinion appreciated.


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## akane (Jul 19, 2011)

If you care nothing about the looks, pelt, or raising an uncommon breed that needs preservation then there is no reason not to get the cheaper nz or cali and spend the money on better quality starting stock. Sure tons of breeds make great meat rabbits but the uncommon ones that cost twice as much aren't really any better than an equivalent common breed. Different and have their own characteristics but not so much better. People use such rabbits for meat because they love the breed, raising heritage type animals, or a unique characteristic. If they were really a lot better than the common breeds they would be the common meat breed instead of hard to find with a high price tag.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Depends on your standpoint. 

Silver Fox are, IMO, sometimes overpriced. What I sell as a 45.00 animal easily sells for 75.00 elsewhere. 

NZW's and Calis are good meat breeds but I got very tired of my NZW's very quickly when they tried to maul me every day. They were vicious and had never been poorly handled in their life. The time I did get one of the NZW's to breed she didn't take care of her litter at all. I know it's anecdotal evidence. I then went out to buy a different buck to breed to my NZ crosses, and HE turned mean. Nailed my dad really good one day. Different breeder.

I then got NZ Blacks, and have been pleased with them. They're NOT mean but are still skittish and high strung. I wouldn't plop one of these into an inexperienced person's arms to tote around like I would my SF. 

My SF's as a general rule are calm, easy to handle even for kids, and are just teddy bears. I've had one mean one and he was actually 75% sf, 25% cali.  

They make SUPERB mothers. They do have some variation in color from individual to individual which is nice. Good for shows if you or your kids have any inclination to do so (super fun!)

And finally, when I make a sale for breeding stock I get anywhere from 45.00 to 75.00 for a kit, depending on quality. When I sell my NZB's, I get 20.00 and up for them.  Maybe a bigger investment initially but if you plan on selling any for breeding stock (which is where, IMO, a bigger chunk of money will come from in raising rabbits), then it may be worth it to invest a little more.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Exactly, depends. If you only want a meat animal, then no, they aren't worth the price. If you really want a silver fox, but never plan to show or sell purebred stock, try asking the breeder for a table cull at a reduced price without papers. This is something a show breeder would cull for conformation or color issues, but would still make a fine animal for meat breeding.

The worst they can do is say no.


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## akane (Jul 19, 2011)

That's where the money on better quality starting stock comes in instead of psychopaths. I've had insane rabbits in every breed. It always came down to breeders I was dealing with and their lack of breeding goals or caring. Sometimes they'll send you an insane rabbit on purpose to get rid of it. I haven't heard anything of nz all being insane. I have heard of a few other breeds like checkered giants being temperamental but you'd think they'd have a reputation if they were all like that and it wouldn't go over well in a commercial operation to have 100s of rabbits trying to attack you every day when you moved cages and checked kits. I would bet you just came across a bad line (even 2 different breeders can have similar bred rabbits off the pedigree) or bad breeders causing low quality stock. I'm still culling out a line of insane mini rex I got. It's a very invasive personality if you don't keep culling hard. Just keep one kit that you like from an insane doe and I've had aggressive behavior for 5 generations now and I only breed until I get the calmest kit with the best characteristics then cull every related rabbit again. It could be passed easy to local breeders and they wouldn't know until the rabbits matured and then their offspring matured and by then it's spread through your rabbitry.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I paid GOOD money for my NZ's both times, from show herds that said their NZ's weren't mean. Pretty big name NZW breeders. 

The NZ's and SFs are just different to handle, WAY different in personality. I wouldn't mind my NZW's - they don't have to be pets - if they didn't try killing me. Skittish and nervous = fine, trying to kill everything that moves = not fine. I haven't yet found a breeder of NZW's that made me want to buy from them. I cull for personality with all my rabbits. Thankfully, my NZB's are nervous but NOT mean. 

I hear ALL THE TIME of people wanting SF's because their NZ's are mean/unhandleable/mauled my child. I just had people come today because they hate their Cali's and NZW's, in fact.


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## Pat Lamar (Jun 19, 2002)

I've said it before and I'll say it again... temperament is NOT determined by breed! There are good and bad in ALL breeds... and yes, that includes Silver Fox... had one that was very hyper/skittish and literally shred a shirt off me, once. On the other end of the spectrum, some of my most tame and lovable rabbits were NZW's, which included one senior buck who loved to be packed around like a rag doll by toddlers! Can't get much better than that, eh? Don't blame the breed... blame the environment, their raising, lack of handling, whatever, but NOT the breed!

Pat Lamar


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## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Pat Lamar said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again... temperament is NOT determined by breed! There are good and bad in ALL breeds... and yes, that includes Silver Fox... had one that was very hyper/skittish and literally shred a shirt off me, once. On the other end of the spectrum, some of my most tame and lovable rabbits were NZW's, which included one senior buck who loved to be packed around like a rag doll by toddlers! Can't get much better than that, eh? Don't blame the breed... blame the environment, their raising, lack of handling, whatever, but NOT the breed!
> 
> Pat Lamar


It's hard to talk someone out of first hand experience though. She had them, she didn't like them, she got something different, presumably raised them the same, didn't have the problems, and anecdotally she hears from similar experiences from her customers... Seems like a pretty fair basis for her own opinion to me. You'll have a heck of a time convincing her out of her own experiences.


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

I agree with Pat. There is not a rule that says all NZ are bloodthirsty devils. Some are. Some are not.

I found that handing makes the difference. There also seems to be a certain genetic predisposition for personality. So by culling the Biters, we have fewer biters.

Have a good day!


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## akane (Jul 19, 2011)

My nz x checkered giant crosses are fine and they are half a breed known for being temperamental. A little grumpy about being lifted but otherwise complete pests who charge and scratch me less than the champagnes. I handled the NZ does and checkered buck they are from and the breeder had all nice rabbits who didn't even wiggle to get away except the buck who didn't really like being picked up but loved petted and treats. I haven't seen a mean NZ yet so I still think it's the lines in your area that the breeders are not culling. I don't buy mini rex from southern Iowa anymore cause it's too hard to find the breeders who haven't bought from the one with the psycho rabbits. A problem can take over an entire state if no one cares and that's not just personality. Shoulder issues are very common here across most commercial breeds. Creme d'argent all have certain issues to the point I decided not to get a creme buck and breed purebreds if I can't find the money to travel out of the midwest for them. It's not the breed. It's the lines and the breeders in the area. If they think their rabbits are fine and they tear you up then obviously they find that to be ok or normal personality so they aren't culling it. If they don't cull it then it spreads until something becomes normal in an entire area. Travel a state or 2 away and that rule may not apply to that breed anymore.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

> I've said it before and I'll say it again... temperament is NOT determined by breed!


Though I'm new to Silver Fox rabbits, I will say, I have tremendous experience in lots of livestock, horses and dogs/cats. I find disposition is very much influenced heavily by breed - this has applied to horses, cattle, goats, poultry, dogs, cats, etc. I haven't enough experience with other rabbits breeds to say how much it plays a role in a rabbit's disposition, but I imagine, like everything else, it is a heavy influence. As with all the other animals, there are exceptions, but they are not the rule.


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## grumpy (Feb 17, 2009)

i've got a young first litter doe that's meaner than a snake...but, she had 14 kits and saved 13. she's growled since day one. but, i know the breeding capabilities within this line of does. it's very good.

her mother is a cranky old bag!! but...very consistent in breeding and consistently raises 8-10 healthy youngsters.

her grandmother was a one-eared rabbit i bought from a young girl here in town...again...the bad disposition...but super mothering abilities. she had 12 or 13 litters of 8-10 kits over a two year period before she injured her back and i had to put her down.

all are commercial NZW's and if it weren't for their excellent mothering abilities, this line would have been culled a long time ago. not all of the does in this line are evil....just a few and they can be traced back to the old one-eared doe.

i had a very nice line of cals. but, the does weren't productive enough for what i wanted and the bucks were lackadaisical in their breeding attempts.

i've never had the pleasure to work with SF's. 

grumpy.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Its been my experience, that the crabbiest does make the best mothers. I would keep your crabby line.


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## Pat Lamar (Jun 19, 2002)

Now, here's a scary thought: Rabbits are mammals. Humans are mammals. The human race has different "breeds," too. Some cultures may think that caucasians all look alike, or vice versus (e.g., like NZWs). And, likewise, if we say that all Orientals (or other nationalities) are "evil," or "viscious," we say it's unfair and call it "discrimination"... but for some reason, it just doesn't seem to carry over to how we think about animals. 

Just something to think about. LOL

Pat Lamar


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