# shotgun project



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I am not sure how much I am doing with this yet , but a friend asked me if I could take a look at this and see what it was worth and maybe see if the stock could be glue/epoxy.

well the answer to the whats it worth question is , not very much 20-25 dollars , as parts ebay-ed worth a bit more , but even in good condition 70-90 dollars is about it when working, these were 10-20 dollar guns new no serial number farm tools pre 1968 

it was covered in a thick layer of dust , wrapped with tape to hold it together , and not shot in as long as he could remember. he didn't even know what gauge or make it was.

my friend is about the least "gun guy" gun owner I know , he is a farmer , he can tell you a lot about the nutritional values of hay at different stages of growth but when asked about what kind of gun he has , he has a 22 what kind of 22 , the kind you shot ***** with. to him it's a tool like a hammer , he also doesn't care what brand of hammer is in his tool box he has a hammer and it works.

so here it is , i has a broken stock and a missing extractor 

it is a J Stevens 238 20ga 

the 238 seems to be the extra budget version of the 238A , nearly identical but with even more basic wood , trigger guard and only 1 extractor rather than 2 

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/Shotguns-40503/238A-41294.htm?results=All

I can't find a schematic of the 238 just the 238A

there were a bunch of these made by Savage under the names JC Higgins for sears , Springfield and J Stevens very similar but the extractors seem to change between models 

how would you repair this stock , even if it was just to be a wall hanger never to be shot again?


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

Pete,

Did the gun use only one of the 238A's extractors?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I was looking through other models and I think it takes something more like the 237 extractor https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1116890A.htm

this is the 238a right extractor https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/402910G.htm

here is my extractor cut in the bolt


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

now that I found a better picture i think the 238a right extractor with plunger and spring will work https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/402910G.htm

better picture of an assembled bolt http://www.ebay.com/itm/Savage-Mode...304374?hash=item464968a0b6:g:wc8AAOSwFqJWsAqm


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I just got a call from the guns owner , and we made a deal to trade for it.

this is my new learning piece , it has very little value and isn't currently working so if it never gets working or repairs fail it's the price of education 

my son and I will fix it up together and learn along the way

as long as it's mine and a learning piece I think learning to re-blue is on the list of things I want to try after stock repair


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## hoddedloki (Nov 14, 2014)

Pete,

Repairing the stock can be done with something like epoxy, but it will not be as strong. Try a form of butterfly spline over the break points on the inside of the stock (so it doesn't show.) If you don't mind the weight, a thin metal rod inserted into holes spanning the break would help strengthen the area, something to be especially mindful of for the break by the magazine well. For the other side of the break, where the wood split out by the action, epoxy followed by small perpendicular dowels inserted into pre-drilled holes would give a lot of strength there. if you are worried about the look, use the same wood type and orient the grain lines before gluing the posts in. 

Regards,
Loki


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I had been thinking brass pins 

the stock looks to be cut out wide enough that a 12 ga would have fit the same magazine well I was thinking a reinforcement inside the magazine well that wouldn't get in the way but would help with strength , but I think step one is get the stock ready to go back together 

I have read 2 procedures for this the first is to use acetone and soak the break for 20 minutes then scrub the break with a a tooth brush to remove oil , then sand lightly and epoxy or glue 

the other is for more oil soaked stocks , where it is soaked in MEK methel keytone then covered in whiting / calcium carbonate powder that is used to thicken paints thus draws the oil out with the MEK 

there are some debates about glue vs epoxy , it seems tight bond 3 is a preferred glue I have this and use it on wood projects it is a good glue 

but that if there are missing pieces or there a gap to fill epoxy seems to be the way to go 

the break seems to fit back together tight so with good prep glue might be enough


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I'd use a good epoxy and screws where possible.

Dowels won't add much strength unless they are driven in, and floating metal rods in epoxy is weaker than epoxy alone.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I'd use a good epoxy and screws where possible.
> 
> Dowels won't add much strength unless they are driven in, and floating metal rods in epoxy is weaker than epoxy alone.



I can do that

do you consider gorilla epoxy a good epoxy or is there something better


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I can do that
> 
> do you consider gorilla epoxy a good epoxy or is there something better


I've always heard good things about the Gorilla brand
I've also had great results with JB Weld and MarineTex

You could also use some thin fiberglass tape saturated with epoxy to span the breaks on the inside to add strength


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

Pete there is a guy in graiot with a bolt action stock for sale. He's not sure as to make and model. Needs refinished


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Lot's of guys swap out rifle stocks. Should be a bunch of those laying around you could acquire for near nothing and possibly modify it to fit that barrel / bolt? It's not worth spending much on, but might just be a fun project.

Used to run into a guy at the big gun shows that had a big booth specializing in nothing but old stocks and pistol grips.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

thanks Madsaw it may get to that

I have also thought about making it a single shot , and filling the magazine well with wood , but for now I will try the epoxy and see how it holds.

this is something new to learn


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

so last night I cleaned the break and stripped the old finish and figured out how I am going to clamp it 

I will plastic wrap the ends of my clamps so that any squeeze out doesn't glue my clamps to the stock 

an acetone bath and good scrubbing for the break tonight then epoxy and clamps


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## FireMaker (Apr 3, 2014)

I have a similar on, but in 3030. Fantastic handling gun. On another gun, I have used gorilla glue and cross drilled, then use hardwood pins and wrap in duct tape to hold all together. When cured I refinished the stock. That was a mossberg beater 22.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I'd clamp it up dry to get the best possible fit, then drill a few pilot holes for some screws wherever you can place them. 

Counter bore the holes for the heads and you can plug them later to hide them


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Hopefully not late to the party, and you've already set glue, but I'm going to disagree with the advice to forgo the pins. A decent joint-fit and epoxy would hold fine, most likely, on a .22 or other light-recoiling rifle, but, even with light loads, shotgun recoil will take that sort repair back apart eventually. 

On paper, the epoxy is stronger than the original wood, but recoil vibration and shifts in the wood grains will break down even a tight multi-plane joint in short order. Even though the lugging is behind the mag well, the sides of that well are going to undulate under recoil. If you've ever seen high-speed film of a pump/auto shotgun receiver during firing, you've seen what I mean. You need to get some cross-grain strength added in there where it wasn't to start with. 

If it was on my bench, and I was going to paint the stock at the end, I would glue it as-is, then butterfly in several pins across the joint, gel-coat them over, and paint it. 

If I wasn't able to paint it when it was done, I would drill the rear section for tight-fitting pins (probably coarse decapitated screws), reach down the holes with a small dremel bit and cut a couple deep radial grooves down the length of the holes, and glue the pins in place. Once the glue set, I would start notching the inside surfaces of the front section, slowly opening them up until the pins would sit in place and allow the broken joint to come together - then cut some radial grooves in their notches. Then I'd glue the joint, and clamp it. Then come back and glue over the pins. 

While you're at it, I would make sure that the recoil lug is not touching either side of its pocket. If it is, chisel out the sides of the pocket until the lug can only contact the back of the pocket. I'd do the same for the screw boss in the front section. If, when everything is assembled, any part of the action screw or boss are lugging recoil, relieve it. 

As far as the epoxy, if you've got the time to wait, I'd order AcraGlass or Devcon, but hardware store stuff will do, just look for the longest setting time you can find. Avoid anything that is "fast-setting". I think Lowes carries 3m products that come in a 1m, 1h, and 24h varieties - your Menards probably has the same - get the 24hr stuff.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I laid the screw that I was going to use across where I was going to put , but obviously down lower in the meat of the wood right behind the recoil lug

I am not sure where else I can get screws or rod in to help it 

the magazine well is nearly a 1/4 inch wider than it needs to be I was thinking once this is together of epoxying in supports that run both sides of the mag well


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

I don't think a screw in that position is going to help you a whole lot, Pete. Don't think it will hurt anything other than create a plug to deal with, but it looks like you have plenty of surface for the glue to hold that right-side flap in. 

I would fit the pins in the vertical-ish faces, running (roughly) parallel to barrel. On the right-side ones, you would probably have to angle them slightly outward, but you could plan that out holding your drill bit and making witness marks on masking tape stuck-on near the scene of the crime. 

Your idea about laying in reinforcements after-the-fact has merit. Especially on the left side, it would reinforce that break. You could trough it out after the glue sets, butterfly out the ends of the trough and either bend the pins or cross them, to take mechanical advantage of the butterfly wings and back fill with glue. 

If you're going to put plates across the walls of the well, you'll want to make sure to leave a little clearance around the mag. When you shoot it, those side walls on that stock are going to oscillate like an arrow (albeit, at a lower amplitude), and you don't want to limit its wave on only one side.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> thanks Madsaw it may get to that
> 
> I have also thought about making it a single shot , and filling the magazine well with wood , but for now I will try the epoxy and see how it holds.
> 
> this is something new to learn


There are some new glues out there which will make a bond that's stronger then the wood around it. I'd contact one of the manufactures and ask what type of adhesive they would recommend. 

If it were me I'd make it pretty and put it somewhere to look at. But I have a personal reason for saying that. I had an old JC Higgins bolt action (mine had a tubular mag not a box) and its the hardest recoiling thing I ever shot. The recoil would cause the mag tube to slip forward so ever once in a while I'd have to move it back.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Just had a thought. . .I wonder if you could mill slots into each piece and glue a metal (or wood) piece in it. Think of a biscuit joint in carpentry.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

my great uncles first gun was a JC Higgins 20ga bolt action with tube magazine.

Bob my Uncles best friend hunts with us every year he uses my Great uncles gun he just shot a nice doe with it a few years ago , when he was 80 , he didn't see anything this year I think he was 83 this year 

Gun monkey your right on track with why it broke , the pocket for that recoil lug is sloppy way to big and it was lugging all the recoil on the screw boss in front of the mag well 

the local store sells the devcon same as what I found on midwayusa but both only offered dark grey 

but I actually went with a loctite 60 minute work time and would cure to a clear with an amber tint , I though that would be better as I do't plan to paint , I would rather see the repairs some and keep the traditional walnut look than cover it all in paint 
I wrapped my clamps in plastic wrap , lined everything up and clamped , then made witness marks where I wanted it and mixed and coated both sides of each break in epoxy then placed the to parts together lined up and set the clamps then left it over night , there was a fair amount of squeeze out but that should mean it got in every where it could also. it is fully cured in 24 hours.



I need to relive the screw boss , and bed the recoil lug to the back of the recoil lug cut out , it was sloppy I will use the grey devcon plastic steel bedding epoxy for bedding and and the internal reinforcements 

so my next question is what works as a release agent or do I need to buy something special

it sounded like pam cooking spray and johnsons paste wax worked as a release agent from some other things I read. I have both of those things. do they work?


I don't have much into this gun and I am trying to keep it budget , actually thinking I may just give it back when I am finished , I think everyone who can should have grandpa/great grandpas gun hanging on the wall. he said he wasn't sentimental or at least not sentimental enough about it to spend money on it , but I sort of think he wouldn't say no to taking it back if I was giving, but just thinking for now.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

watcher said:


> Just had a thought. . .I wonder if you could mill slots into each piece and glue a metal (or wood) piece in it. Think of a biscuit joint in carpentry.


That works well in joining uniform pieces but gets trick with odd shapes.
You still end up with the glue doing most of the holding, whereas a screw is a mechanical fastener by itself


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I would rather see the repairs some and keep the traditional walnut look than cover it all in paint


Mix a small amount of sawdust in the epoxy for color

Most any oil or wax makes a decent release agent.
I've heard a lot of people say they like KIWI shoe polish
On some things a layer of clear tape will keep the adhesive off


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## hugho (Jun 9, 2011)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I am not sure how much I am doing with this yet , but a friend asked me if I could take a look at this and see what it was worth and maybe see if the stock could be glue/epoxy.
> 
> well the answer to the whats it worth question is , not very much 20-25 dollars , as parts ebay-ed worth a bit more , but even in good condition 70-90 dollars is about it when working, these were 10-20 dollar guns new no serial number farm tools pre 1968
> 
> ...


I will not comment on the mechanical problems. The stock can be repaired with a quality epoxy. Contrary to some opinions here, a good epoxy repair will yield a stock stronger than ever. I have built boats and some aircraft parts and properly done the repair will be satisfactory. Splines will not be necessary or useful.. Consult manufacturer tips from well known corporations like West System. De greasing is crucial.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

That 24hr cure epoxy you got should be as strong as any of the dedicated bedding formulas out there. 

The Brownells release agent is graphics designer's mask. You should be able to buy it at any art store. It comes in an aerosol can or a little can (like 35mm film) that you brush on. It is blue in color, so you can see where you put it, has an alcohol solvent so it dries fast, and rolls off like really thin rubber cement when you're done. 

I always had a can of the Brownells stuff at my bench. The company bought it and it worked well. I almost always use/used wood wax, though. Don't know why. Just do.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

...and, yes: pins, splines, biscuits or butterflies, whatever you want to call them, will make those mag well side walls stronger. Glue alone may hold it for a while, but recoil and weather changes will take that joint apart eventually if you don't get some stable-material mechanical-locks in there. I've seen it, and guarantee you that re-fixing a glue-only repair will be more difficult that the original one.


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