# buck w/ bloody urine..or something like that



## dk_40207 (Jun 23, 2005)

The buck that we just got seems to have a problem. Or maybe it's normal. The truth is, I haven't read that much about bucks...
He urinates fine. It appears normal--but he keeps "dribbling" what apears to be watery blood. It comes out in a sory stream, not like when he urinates...
Is this something to do w/ being in rut, or is something wrong w/ him? :shrug:


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## chma4 (Feb 27, 2005)

Most likely urinari stones (urinari caliculli). Quick, put vinegar in his water. I think its 1 cup vinegar to 1 gallon water. Also, remove any excess protein (grain) from his diet. You should be able to find feed in your local feed store specifically for male goats that has (I think) Amonium Chloride in it. This will help avoid stones in the future. I , however, ONLY give my bucks hay and water since I had one get this problem when I started. Stones will kill him. If you dont see improvement in a day or two, or he gets worse, get a vet immediately.
Just my first quess. None of the things I suggested can hurt, so give them a try.
GOOD LUCK
Christina Wolverton
Wolverton Family Farm


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

order some ammonium chloride to use and keep on hand from pipevet.com it's around $5. Drench him with 1 tablespoon...just add a tiny bit of warm waer to dissolve this salt, and syringe it down him, once a day until this is overwith. From then on just keep 1 teaspoon per buck per day over his grain. Moving to a meat goat pellet that contains it already is easy, just keep your leftover AC in tupperware in a cool cabinet to use in emergencies.

Grain/phophrous is the culprit here not protein. Vinegar although it does keep the water troughs clean and free of algea and some goats love the taste and will drink more water with it in the water,, will no change the pH of the urine to stop Urinary Calculi formation.

Do you have a good loose mineral out for him? Vicki


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## lgslgs (May 30, 2005)

Is it clear, and is there any chance he's eating red maple right now? That will turn urine red.

Any vet can run a quick check to see if the coloration is actually blood. Worth catching a sample and getting it looked at tomorrow.

Also check the rest of the herd and see if everyone with access to the same browse is peeing red. But still worth getting a sample tested, it's low cost and could be a lifesaver if it's something other than dyed urined. Urinary calculi are horrible and they can take a goat down fast.

Lynda


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## dk_40207 (Jun 23, 2005)

Okay, thanks. Does anyone know if I can get ammonium chloride at a vet or any type of local store??? Sounds like ordering online may be ify as far as timing goes. I don't think it;s red maples. He could have had some where he came from--but he will urinate fine, but have shorter dribbles of bloody in between...I didn't think he was getting grain where he was before, but maybe..he was one of the "free" goats that are turning out to be huge headaches!
Would this problem make him not want to breed a doe in heat? We have one in heat(we think) and they are really "into each other", but everytime we think hes gonna go for it--they just sort of quit acting all lovey...


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## Jillis (Sep 11, 2005)

This problem, if it is UC, will make him very dead if not taken care of quickly. It is an agonizing death. I hope you find some AC soon.


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## dk_40207 (Jun 23, 2005)

Anyone know where I can find it?!?!?


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

how much vinegar would you use in a 50 gallon tank to keep the algae down?? white vinegar or apple cider vinegar


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

dk_40207 said:


> Anyone know where I can find it?!?!?


try your feed store.  
in the meantime call your vet he/she might be able to unclog the drain.


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## Sher (May 10, 2002)

I had a six year old wether that got calculi..from what..I don't know. There was a change in the hay..he never got grain.

The vet did not treat it like everyone here does..but it sure as heck pulled him outta the fire.

We used a urinary acidifier..DL Methionine..500 mg .. we gave two tablets per 50lb of body weight. I also gave him two shots of pen. And a shot or two of Ace. I also messaged him. In three days...he was peeing like a champ and being his usual care-free .. happy-go-lucky self. 

I ground the tabs and put them in water. And syringed (no needle) it into his mouth. 

I am trying to remember...I think I gave him B-Complex also.

Good luck...if it is calculi..catching it and treating it promptly sure saves a lot of pain for the goat..not to mention saves his life.

P.S. Just a thought..right before he dislodged..a drip turned into a stream very slowly. But it was a continuous dripping. He did this afterward for a while too. So maybe..in a best case scenario..he is about to pass one..or has already done so. Worse case scenario..he is getting ready to shut off the pee..then you are in trouble. Just wanted you to be aware that the dribbling occurred in Red too..but in his case..it was the beginning of relief. He was struggling to get any pee whatsoever out when we first were aware he had a problem.


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## PygmyLover (Oct 12, 2006)

mare said:


> how much vinegar would you use in a 50 gallon tank to keep the algae down?? white vinegar or apple cider vinegar


Apple Cider Vinegar


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

how much would you use---dont want to use too much so they wont drink it and i sure want to use enough to do the trick


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

dk_40207 said:


> Anyone know where I can find it?!?!?


It looks like it's also used in plant nursery's. It's also found in cough syrup.

http://www.rosemagazine.com/articles04/rose_fungicide/


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## Sher (May 10, 2002)

Any update on your boy? If he is bleeding..I don't think vinegar water will cure it very quick. How is he?


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## PygmyLover (Oct 12, 2006)

I was told 1/4 cup of ACV in 5 gallons of water.


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## dk_40207 (Jun 23, 2005)

Oden update: I have been unable, as of yet to find any A chloride. I've called around, and no vets stock it around here. There is a veternary supply place in town and my husband is calling them today to see if they have it. One vet also recommended one feed store. We are going to call them, too(they are pretty far from us, that's why I didn't call them in the first place).
He is urinating fine....that is what is so weird. It's inbetween urinations that he "leaks" what apears to be bloody urine. He seems to feel okay too. He is interested in one of my does--but he won't breed her..any thoughts on this? 

These free goats are turning out to be a little bit of a pain! One w/ a raging case of mastitis(she probably won't milk out of that ide next year) and now this guy. They also all have mild rot. Whew. Theupside is that they all have great personallities
I didn't think this guy was getting any grain--he was pretty much neglected for the past year--so this really suprised me..


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

dk_40207 said:


> Oden update: I have been unable, as of yet to find any A chloride. I've called around, and no vets stock it around here. There is a veternary supply place in town and my husband is calling them today to see if they have it. One vet also recommended one feed store. We are going to call them, too(they are pretty far from us, that's why I didn't call them in the first place).
> He is urinating fine....that is what is so weird. It's inbetween urinations that he "leaks" what apears to be bloody urine. He seems to feel okay too. He is interested in one of my does--but he won't breed her..any thoughts on this?
> 
> These free goats are turning out to be a little bit of a pain! One w/ a raging case of mastitis(she probably won't milk out of that ide next year) and now this guy. They also all have mild rot. Whew. Theupside is that they all have great personallities
> I didn't think this guy was getting any grain--he was pretty much neglected for the past year--so this really suprised me..


a buck does not neet to get grain to develope UC. neglect in form from not regularly fresh water can do this too. some grass high in phosphor can do it.
that he is still peeing means the stone is not big enough yet to block him totally. the stone is exactly why he will not breed your does. i bet he is in pain.
when you called the vet he did not recommend to bring the buck in to remove the obsticle? :nono: 
order the AC at jeffers today, call them and let them send it to you as soon as possible. 
those free goats can indeed become a money pit for you.


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## trob1 (Jun 18, 2006)

You are not likey to find amonium cloride except online. It has been 2 days now and if you had ordered it when you first posted it would almost be there. Order it online and keep looking local, it is cheap and with bucks you need to keep it on hand. If this is not stones he could have a problem with his penis and that is why he is not breeding. Have you seen him bring it out and spray urine on himself? If so look at it and make sure he doesnt have an infection on it. I am wishing him well.


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## Sher (May 10, 2002)

My vet had the DL Methionine on hand. It does the same thing..and it worked extremely fast on Red. He was totally NOT peeing and within an hour..he started dripping and then a stream of pee started. I know no one else has talked about this stuff. But if your buck is in trouble..and one of the vets has it on hand..what have you got to lose?

Also..IF this is a stone trying to pass...when it gets in a certain position...he will not be eating..he will be in horrible pain. This vet is the only one I know that uses ACE on goats. He gave me some for Red's pain and to relax him. It was .9 cc...that's right... .9 cc. He gave me a special little syringe that loaded that small amount easily. I truly think that that and massaging and warm compacts helped him to pass the stone.

Anyone else use this method?


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## dk_40207 (Jun 23, 2005)

Alright! Whew! A big "THANKYOU SWEETIE!!" to allenslabs who found me some locally! It's a bit of a drive, but I'll be able to get him some tonight! And no, none of the vets wanted to helpout in that regard I've heard that about vets around here. They make their money on the folks wo have a zillion horses to sit out in the yard and look pretty!
Thanks everyone!


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## dk_40207 (Jun 23, 2005)

On fiasco farms website it says to drench 1.5 lbs of AChloride w/ one gallon of water for 60lbs of goat. That seemed like a large drench to me! We just dossed oden and I dissolved about 2 tbsp in 2 oz of water.

Anyone who has delt w/ this before have any advice on how much AC in how much water?? For approx how long?

We drove for over an hour to spend under $2 for this stuff! We couldn't find any around us! I guess I should have bought more then I did....


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

1.5 pounds / gallon of water seems like concentration to me NOT dose. I would check other sites to verify.


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## trob1 (Jun 18, 2006)

This is what Fiasco farms website says. So when you make the gallon mixture you give him 40 cc or ml of the mix.

Mixing Instructions for Ammonium Chloride Solution (Oral Drench Treatment)
For a mixture of 0.26 grams of NH4Cl per kg of body weight


If the goat weighs this much: Give the goat orally 40 CC of the following mixture 
30 lbs 0.78 lbs of NH4Cl mixed with one gallon of water 
45 lbs 1.17 lbs of NH4Cl mixed with one gallon of water 
60 lbs 1.56 lbs of NH4Cl mixed with one gallon of water 
Caution: Ammonia toxicity can a potential problem, however the oral dosing of NH4Cl to treat urinary calculi is a desperation effort. Therefore, the risk of ammonia complications may be tolerable in light of impending death if urine flow is not reestablished.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Read Vicki's reply again. She really knows her stuff. She said 1 tablespoon in enough water to dissolve it. Give this to him daily until he's better.


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## dk_40207 (Jun 23, 2005)

Okiedoke. Thanks trob--it was a long day--i miss read.. I will do as miss vickie says and get this guy back in the game! Thank you so much to everyone for your help!!


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## Jillis (Sep 11, 2005)

Sher, what is ACE?


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## Sher (May 10, 2002)

Hi Jillis..

Its short for Acepromazine. I do believe they use it on horses. I have never read about anyone trying to use it on goats..until this vet. I also never heard anyone using the DL Metheonine. I had called my friend that works with a vet..they have this other guy come in a couple times a week from another town.

When she called and told me to come get this stuff..I thought..oh boy..but Red has been such a great companion..and character..I just did what the guy said. I could not believe it..Red was totally plugged..no peeing whatsoever. After the first treatment...he started dripping..after the next..he was peeing a stream. 

I am very curious if anyone else has used this. The ACE is very potent..he gave me a special syringe to make it easier to give such a small amount.

But you could tell fifteen minutes after he had it that he was being relieved. And just as important as the pain relief..was the fact that it worked as a muscle relaxer too. So that darned stone could get passed easier. It truly was amazing..my husband and I were both totally shocked..we had feared the worst.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Sher,

That's interesting. I use Acepromazine to calm my border collie during Fourth of July celebrations and thunderstorms and the DL Methionine should be available at health food stores.

I will definitely put those in my goat medicine chest.


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## dk_40207 (Jun 23, 2005)

the methionine is pretty pricey at healthfood stores....I wonder if it is cheaper or a different "grade" from the vet? Hmmmm. I give this to my DH as a part of an "antioxidant cocktail" that is regularly available in europe for certain conditions...but not here. I had a pretty hard time finding it, too.
Good stuff to know, sher!


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