# So who gives new arrivals a hard time?



## Guest

Shrek said:
"......Its hard enough for new participants to join in with the old timers here giving many new arrivals a hard time......"

I was concerned after reading this..concerned that perhaps I had a stroke along with the heart attack because I cannot recall any old timer giving a new arrival a hard time, never mind "many" new arrivals..

There have been a few new arrivals who posted as if this were a meat market site and were instantly corrected...but other than that...clueless here..

So are we meanies????? :shrug:


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## Laura Zone 5

No ma'am.
Ya'all took me in....

Did it take time? yes.
Did I need to post / comment a lot? yes.
Was this a regular spot for me? yes
Did some ppl give me 'the business'? sometimes.
Did I give it right back? yep.

Coming in only to feed on someone's open wound is not trying to participate / be a part / offer anything. 
That's why I left other boards and stay here.

It's a great group of folks, whom I don't agree with 100%, 100% of the time, but you know what........life's a box of chocolates, all different shapes, sizes, colors and fillings.
But at the end of the day, it's still chocolate baby!!


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## Lisa in WA

I'm not new to HT and I rarely post on ST and I was accused of being a meanie by one of the oldtimers here (assuming she's an oldtimer). I rather enjoyed her post: so dramatic and detailed and my husband was intrigued by the sandpaper tongue thing (meow). 
I feel like I should grow my nails now in lieu of being able to pop one out to draw blood. I do kind of think she may be unduly influenced by where she lives and the whole Twilight thing. I generally crave carbs, not blood. :happy2:

Though I'm not single, I like many people on ST and enjoy their posts and read when one catches my eye. Somebody sniping at me is not particularly likely to make me not post if I feel like posting. I wish more of HT had the atmosphere of ST.


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## starjj

Actually the equine board is tough on anyone. Just try and park your saddle there lol. It must be us old biddies that are doing it. Rarely do I see "new" people here. Mostly I see people posting their profiles on the ST profile thread but never joining in on the day to day conversations.


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## Guest

Years ago..literally, there was a poster who had multiple online personas..she/he/it posted all kinds of evil things, jabbed at people constantly, woo'ed the ST guys via PMs and then posted their replies as a source of amusement...totally evil person...we tried to get her banned..it took a looooooong time...anyway, right after she actually was banned, a bunch of newbies appeared...some posters were so burned out by "sticky witch" ( her overall name) that they were perhaps less than cordial...thinking that she had come back again and again under new names...but nobody was mean...

I'm not certain that she ever left..LOL...anyhow, THAT was, I think, 2007 or 2008...I haven't seen anyone be overly cool with a new poster since then..it disturbs me that we "old timers" have been unjustly accused of being mean...


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## roadless

It took a very short time for me to feel comfortable here and I started off on the wrong foot.....but ya all forgave me! 

I think it is like anywhere we go, we tend to find what we are looking for.


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## calliemoonbeam

In the time of the whole SW mess, there were definitely some of the "regulars" who were suspicious and pretty rude to some newcomers, but I kind of saw their point. She really played a number on the people of ST and hurt a few IRL, not just on the boards. But even then, once people hung around for a while and they got to know them better, things eased up.

Since that all calmed down, though, I haven't really seen any evidence of it, and I think ST has been pretty welcoming for the past couple of years. Then again, a lot of the old regulars who were so suspicious don't post here any more either, so I don't know how much that factors in. :shrug:

As Lesley said, there's the occasional newcomer who obviously didn't bother to read at all before posting their "meat market" order, lol, expecting someone to just swoon at their feet, and everyone's pretty quick to let them know this isn't that kind of place, but if they had bothered to spend even a tiny bit of effort to familiarize themselves with ST first they would have probably never posted that type of intro to begin with! 

Lesley, you beat me to it, lol! You posted while I was typing, but yeah that's who I was talking about.


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## elkhound

.....


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## Fowler

Meat market...callie said a funny...LOL!!!!


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## elkhound

.....


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## starjj

Oh Lord now I want a ribeye
My favorite cut


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## Fowler

I give everyone a hard time...I don't discriminate. 

Behave Elk you know I have a mind of a 13 year old ....LOL


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## elkhound

.....


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## elkhound

....
..


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## elkhound

.....


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## starjj

Thread drift


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## starjj

Don't want to cause Lesley stress LOL


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## elkhound

..........


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## FarmChix

elkhound said:


> perfection


Perfect center cut. Excellent marbling. Not a vein steak. Yum!

Oh, we weren't talking about steak????:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:


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## Guest

Perhaps I need to say that I posted this topic with all seriousness? 

Maybe you all could start another thread about meat...eh? Thanks , or not, depending upon the outcome...


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## elkhound

......


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## oneraddad

starjj said:


> Well I am wiping the drool off my screen. A guy I use to date didn't like them because he said they had too much fat (marbling).



I bet he was from the city


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## starjj

Thread drift


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## starjj

Sorry Lesley Elk was posting steak porn Nothng better than steak porn

Elk I think we need to go back and delee our thread drift posts?


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## Laura

I moved from the other subforums to ST in 2010. Yeah there's been some cannibal feeding frenzies on newbies and most of those people don't come back. There's those who feed off pain and stab the wounds bigger to feed deeper, stalk the wounded around HT thinking they're cute and clever. In RL they grin like dead 'possums, probably stink like them too.

I think ST calmed way down over the last year or so becoming a more welcoming, safer place for people to be. I don't know if it's because people were banned or what. Nice ladies and gentlemen were calling this place a sewer because of the nasty antics going on. It's cleaned up well enough to be compared to a safe casual bar. We can have conversations without brawls spilling our drinks and smashing tables, nobody gets shanked for jukebox money, the chalk outlines on the floor are gone, the toilets no longer overflow, we haven't had a successful hallway gangbang in months and I think the teenage hookers are gone from the back alley. I heard rumors of potted ferns and fresh fruit drinks. Better than the old rumors.

Thanks Shrek and Terri. Now you can't say it's a thankless job. :thumb:


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## FarmboyBill

We had her, and don't forget the guy who came inb here wanting a gal to move down to tex right now, around a year ago. Theres been around 4 instances I could think of,

I was treated meanie when I first came on in here, Course, I brought it onto myself. Had to retreat, retract, and try it again.


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## viggie

From my perspective, the folks here were definitely not welcoming when I first joined. I ended up taking a year hiatus before poking my head in again and it did seem a bit better...and sticking to the few actual homesteading threads has helped as well. But looking around today I can't say it's less volatile


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## Terri in WV

Mostly, from what I've seen, is new people are welcomed and told to jump in. There have only been a couple of occasions, that I recall, that turned on a new poster(or not so new), because of the way they posted/responded.

I'll be the first to admit that I gave a hard time to one "not so new poster" after he got irate with me for pointing out the fact that many of the females he was trying to woo here were a lot further along in the process than he was.


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## Guest

viggie said:


> From my perspective, the folks here were definitely not welcoming when I first joined. I ended up taking a year hiatus before poking my head in again and it did seem a bit better...and sticking to the few actual homesteading threads has helped as well. But looking around today I can't say it's less volatile


Sorry to hear that...


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## Guest

Laura said:


> I moved from the other subforums to ST in 2010. Yeah there's been some cannibal feeding frenzies on newbies and most of those people don't come back. There's those who feed off pain and stab the wounds bigger to feed deeper, stalk the wounded around HT thinking they're cute and clever. In RL they grin like dead 'possums, probably stink like them too.
> 
> I think ST calmed way down over the last year or so becoming a more welcoming, safer place for people to be. I don't know if it's because people were banned or what. Nice ladies and gentlemen were calling this place a sewer because of the nasty antics going on. It's cleaned up well enough to be compared to a safe casual bar. We can have conversations without brawls spilling our drinks and smashing tables, nobody gets shanked for jukebox money, the chalk outlines on the floor are gone, the toilets no longer overflow, we haven't had a successful hallway gangbang in months and I think the teenage hookers are gone from the back alley. I heard rumors of potted ferns and fresh fruit drinks. Better than the old rumors.
> 
> Thanks Shrek and Terri. Now you can't say it's a thankless job. :thumb:


interesting perspective..


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## FarmChix

In all seriousness, going back to the original topic, I don't think it is just the ST that is "standoff-ish". I get it. I put up with it. I've been replied to in ways that I found "unfriendly". However, although I am not single anymore, I still stray back over to the ST threads. I remind myself that we, as a culture, are "guarded" No one really knows the true tone in which a reply is meant. Unlike face-to-face interaction, we cannot always rely on how we take written word to the actual spirit in which the reply came. I try to re-read the post and reply accordingly...or just completely ignore. I try to stay positive with my posts and defuse the not-so-nice situations. Sometimes, I act like I never even read the response. Better to ignore than to get my feathers ruffled by something that isn't so important in the grand scheme of it all.


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## Raeven

Yeah, it was a pretty rough indoctrination. I was one who turned up after the SW thing and was treated to a snootful of scorn that I was she. I must be a glutton for punishment, though, because I stuck around and am STILL here.  Also thanks to two very wonderful members who took pity on me and explained the SW thing. I consider them two of the highest quality people here and they remain two of my closest HT friends.

But there are a lot of high quality people here. Even some who don't like me much.  We don't all have to think the same. I don't think. Do we?

I admit to giving stick to one of the Drive-Up Window dewds who acted like he was ordering a woman into his life like his next Quarter Pounder with Cheese. It irritated me. A lot. I don't think his departure was a great loss. But who knows? Maybe I sent the most amazing man ST has ever seen packing!! :shocked: If yes, then I offer my heartfelt apologies to all the good women here who missed out on him.


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## Fowler

Can anyone spare some juke box change? Or do I need to start hooking? ....LOL, Laura you crack me up!!


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## Laura

Fowler said:


> Can anyone spare some juke box change? Or do I need to start hooking? ....LOL, Laura you crack me up!!


There's a pile of jukebox change under the dead 'possum on page 1. Spin it! :dj:


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## jwal10

I felt welcome from day one but I am not single. I just stepped right in mostly to talk to Bill about his homestead. I just talk like I would if I was talking to any of my neighbors. I don't get involved with some of the drama, though. I really enjoy the give and take, here....James


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## L.A.

Raeven said:


> I admit to giving stick to one of the Drive-Up Window dewds who acted like he was ordering a woman into his life like his next Quarter Pounder with Cheese. It irritated me. A lot. I don't think his departure was a great loss. But who knows? Maybe I sent the most amazing man ST has ever seen packing!! :shocked: If yes, then I offer my heartfelt apologies to all the good women here who missed out on him.


What???,,,,Uh,,I didn't go anywhere,,,just got tired of sitting in the truck at the drive-up and came inside,,,

Yes,Ma'am,,,You may take my order now,,,
Let's see now I'll have,,,,,,,,,,,

:nana:


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## Raeven

LOL, LA!!! I'm so glad you didn't run away after all!! :sing: I'M SORRY!!!!


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## Tommyice

I was never accused of being SW--I don't think so anyway. Although there were some that thought I might be a dude. FBB dealt with that better after I told him I had "puppies." LMAO Some, in the distant past, did pass some comments about my location, but hey I'm a Jerzey Gurl--we take it but boy do we dish it out too. Seems some of those folks parted company with us too. ~~psst. check the concrete pillar under the Route 80 overpass in Paterson~~ (Sustainabilly will get that one. LOL)

I like to think of ST as a smorgesboard. There are the tried and true dishes you always gravitate to and then there are the ones you nibble to taste. Maybe find a new tried and true. 

We are also the more open minded of the folks on the whole HT boards. I think that's because we are alone and don't have the echo chamber of someone at home to mirror our thoughts. We need to find someplace else for that and it seems to be here where the viewpoints and personalities are so very broad. So instead of a one way mirror it's like going into the fun house.

Now can we get back to the steak porn. Maybe Elk will through a hand in there too


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## L.A.

Raeven said:


> LOL, LA!!! I'm so glad you didn't run away after all!! :sing: I'M SORRY!!!!


That's Okay,,but let's not forget that "Most Amazing" part,,,,Okay??

:thumb:


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## tambo

viggie said:


> From my perspective, the folks here were definitely not welcoming when I first joined. I ended up taking a year hiatus before poking my head in again and it did seem a bit better...and sticking to the few actual homesteading threads has helped as well. But looking around today I can't say it's less volatile


Hey now!!! We've been bud's a long time.


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## viggie

tambo said:


> Hey now!!! We've been bud's a long time.


I knew you and a couple others from elsewhere, so I guess never really thought of you as STers. Ya'll are what made it worth giving it a second chance though...so you is specials.


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## homefire2007

Definitely SW or her other alias: Lavender Lady, Old Yellers Ghost, etc. did a real number on a lot of folks here. It was far from harmless but I never understood the pack mentality that circled wagons so to speak. There was an atmosphere of paranoia because you began to wonder if anybody was who they said they were. Many longtime members left.


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## FarmboyBill

Homefire, that pack mentality that caused us to circle wagons was brought on by somebody new deciding one of us was fair game to deride, heckle, and make fun of. What they couldn't have realized as they hadn't spent near enough time melding and bonding to us, is that EVERYBODY in here, likely is friends with someone else, whose friends with somebody else, and so on. 
As an example, Someone might be getting picked on, in here, and a friend of the pickee jumps in to defend them. THAT person has a couple friends, who back them, and so on. 
Ive backed a couple people in here, who did not like me. It was just a case of, WHO the H are you?? Were US, and were near like family. Leave the person alone, and go to H


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## Tommyice

Yup Bill we're like family here......



one big, dysfunctional family.



Makes the holidays fun, no?


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## homefire2007

Bill, I understand your point to a certain degree. What I was trying to say is welcome 'new' members until you know different. Even back then, it was hard for me to believe every new member was SW. You better believe when I call someone 'friend' I will have their back. But if they are wrong, I will tell them so...as I hope they tell me when I am out of line


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## frogmammy

Tommyice said:


> ~~psst. check the concrete pillar under the Route 80 overpass in Paterson~~ (Sustainabilly will get that one. LOL)


What? No more swimming lessons in Jamaica Bay?

Mon


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## calliemoonbeam

Just for the record, I wasn't trying to be funny and didn't even realize it would sound funny until Fowler pointed it out. I was being perfectly serious and Lesley, I'm sorry if my post offended you, I would never purposely do that! 

I was simply referring to the new people who come in with their very first post, treating this like it's a sleazy singles' bar, state their list of requirements and then just sit back waiting for someone to think "ooh what a good catch!", lol. They obviously don't realize this isn't a match-up site like Farmers Only or Plenty of Fish, but that's my point. If they had read the boards at all or even the description of HT's purpose, they'd know that and not make a fool out of themselves.

I see people jump on those types a lot, and I can understand why, but I don't join in. I never take part in that sort of thing, I just read it and move on or don't even read it at all. That's how I handle most things I don't like or don't agree with on the boards. I can't see posting just to say I don't like it, to put someone down (they'll figure out they're wrong quick enough on their own) or, lord love a duck, to report someone! But that's a whole 'nother can of worms. 

We're all supposed to be adults, and I can be civil to just about anyone even if I don't like them personally or agree with their viewpoint on something. If it's really objectionable, I just ignore it and move on to something more pleasant. Why start an uproar that will only make people unhappy or even hurt?

I welcome new people with open arms and even if they post one or two questionable things still tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. But personal attacks or deliberately trying to harm someone like SW did, that's a different story and like others have said, we're good friends and family here, and we stick up for our own. I think that's how it should be. :shrug:


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## Guest

calliemoonbeam said:


> Just for the record, I wasn't trying to be funny and didn't even realize it would sound funny until Fowler pointed it out. I was being perfectly serious and Lesley, I'm sorry if my post offended you, I would never purposely do that!
> 
> I was simply referring to the new people who come in with their very first post, treating this like it's a sleazy singles' bar, state their list of requirements and then just sit back waiting for someone to think "ooh what a good catch!", lol. They obviously don't realize this isn't a match-up site like Farmers Only or Plenty of Fish, but that's my point. If they had read the boards at all or even the description of HT's purpose, they'd know that and not make a fool out of themselves.
> 
> I see people jump on those types a lot, and I can understand why, but I don't join in. I never take part in that sort of thing, I just read it and move on or don't even read it at all. That's how I handle most things I don't like or don't agree with on the boards. I can't see posting just to say I don't like it, to put someone down (they'll figure out they're wrong quick enough on their own) or, lord love a duck, to report someone! But that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
> 
> We're all supposed to be adults, and I can be civil to just about anyone even if I don't like them personally or agree with their viewpoint on something. If it's really objectionable, I just ignore it and move on to something more pleasant. Why start an uproar that will only make people unhappy or even hurt?
> 
> I welcome new people with open arms and even if they post one or two questionable things still tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. But personal attacks or deliberately trying to harm someone like SW did, that's a different story and like others have said, we're good friends and family here, and we stick up for our own. I think that's how it should be. :shrug:


I didn't take it as you tryng to be funny...and no way was I "offended" by anything that you wrote...I agree with you 100%...


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## FarmboyBill

homefire, theres only around a 1/2 doz people here I CALL friend. BUT, theres a doz at least, that I feel friendly with, and I try to treat all the same regardless.


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## Laura

It seems we all have our buttons why we treat people the way we do, and we each have our own styles of doing that. I don' t think the pouring of vinegar and eating people alive in a feeding frenzy because we don't like their perceptions is any better or worse than roaming passive-aggressive snidiness hiding behind the fake, "Who me?"


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## sustainabilly

Tommyice said:


> ...~~psst. check the concrete pillar under the Route 80 overpass in Paterson~~ (Sustainabilly will get that one. LOL)
> ...


Pfft!! He ain't there... Hofstra University, south parking lot near the third speed bump. Spot D-6.


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## Brighton

Laura said:


> It seems we all have our buttons why we treat people the way we do, and we each have our own styles of doing that. I don' t think the pouring of vinegar and eating people alive in a feeding frenzy because we don't like their perceptions is any better or worse than roaming passive-aggressive snidiness hiding behind the fake, "Who me?"


Or, you could just let it go, like a lot of us do.


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## doingitmyself

I am relatively new here, about one year now. I felt comfortable from the beginning. I have had phone conversations with several great women here and enjoyed many hours of excellent company. I have only met one in person and that was a very nice time as well. 

CS has been a very enjoyable experience for me, I'm glad i missed the shenanigans mentioned in the past. Many kind words both public and in PM's concerning my Father lead me to believe there are an awful lot of good people here just passing time and making new friends. 

I'm not one to cause trouble, and attempt to soften ugliness here and in real life. I've made friends, had some laughs, learned some stuff, and hope that all continues in the future. I would like to meet more folks here in person. :hobbyhors


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## goatiegirls

So I think this might be the perfect topic for me to post on. I've been on HT a few years, maybe posted on CS a couple times early on. I started lurking maybe shortly after the SW situation which since I missed I didn't really understand but I did see the pack mentality and a good amount of general nastiness. I've hung around once in a while but kept my mouth shut...so nobody was nasty to me!!! 

I almost jumped into the fray last week and decided that wouldn't be prudent for me to voice opinions after silence for so long. So this is my jump-in!!

Feel like I know a few of you well but you don't know me at all- so fire away!! Nine years post divorce, I'm pretty tough


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## roadless

Welcome goatiegirl! 
Glad ya are joining in!


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## homefire2007

Welcome goatiegirls!


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## Terri in WV

Welcome and continue to jump in! Give us a chance to get to know you like you know us.


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## Guest

goatiegirls said:


> so i think this might be the perfect topic for me to post on. I've been on ht a few years, maybe posted on cs a couple times early on. I started lurking maybe shortly after the sw situation which since i missed i didn't really understand but i did see the pack mentality and a good amount of general nastiness. I've hung around once in a while but kept my mouth shut...so nobody was nasty to me!!!
> 
> I almost jumped into the fray last week and decided that wouldn't be prudent for me to voice opinions after silence for so long. So this is my jump-in!!
> 
> Feel like i know a few of you well but you don't know me at all- so fire away!! Nine years post divorce, i'm pretty tough


welcome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## SimplerTimez

I'm still chuckling over the thread header in a single's forum....

~ST


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## FarmboyBill

Im sure alla the guys like goatiegirls lol.


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## unregisterd365936

I am pretty new to this site, and so far, everyone has been kind and welcoming. I admit to not cruising thru the entire site often ... there's way too much for me to absorb, so I kind of limit my perusing to the Singletree forum. I'm generally a pacifist, lol, but if provoked, I can unfurl my fangs with the best of them to protect myself. Don't want to ... but you know, occasionally there are pissy (is that a banned word???) types on every website where there are forums, etc. A stunning blow to the head (figuratively) is more than most bullies can handle. 

:icecream:


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## Guest

blinkers said:


> i am pretty new to this site, and so far, everyone has been kind and welcoming. I admit to not cruising thru the entire site often ... There's way too much for me to absorb, so i kind of limit my perusing to the singletree forum. I'm generally a pacifist, lol, but if provoked, i can unfurl my fangs with the best of them to protect myself. Don't want to ... But you know, occasionally there are pissy (is that a banned word???) types on every website where there are forums, etc. A stunning blow to the head (figuratively) is more than most bullies can handle.
> 
> :icecream:


welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ramblin Wreck

goatiegirls said:


> So I think this might be the perfect topic for me to post on. I've been on HT a few years, maybe posted on CS a couple times early on. I started lurking maybe shortly after the SW situation which since I missed I didn't really understand but I did see the pack mentality and a good amount of general nastiness. I've hung around once in a while but kept my mouth shut...so nobody was nasty to me!!!
> 
> I almost jumped into the fray last week and decided that wouldn't be prudent for me to voice opinions after silence for so long. So this is my jump-in!!
> 
> Feel like I know a few of you well but you don't know me at all- so fire away!! Nine years post divorce, I'm pretty tough


I don't know. Seems like you ought to have to pass a test or something...just in case. 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g[/ame]


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## Guest

SimplerTimez said:


> I'm still chuckling over the thread header in a single's forum....
> 
> ~ST


??? Would you explain....I don't get the joke...


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## SimplerTimez

bostonlesley said:


> ??? Would you explain....I don't get the joke...


I can't, you're on heart meds...

:lonergr:

~ST

PS. Apparently I have missed all the kerfuffles while I've been off being industrious and stuff. Y'all wait until I'm not around to be interesting!


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## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> Im sure alla the guys like goatiegirls lol.


I am a gal, and I think I probably like her too, so what are you trying to say Bill?


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## SimplerTimez

bostonlesley said:


> ??? Would you explain....I don't get the joke...


Welllllllll, I've rethought this. You've always been so nice to me BL.

It has to do with coronal mass ejections, which are quite active this year. Sun is heating up...

Anyone else gettin' hot in here?

:dance:

~ST


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## goatiegirls

Ramblin Wreck said:


> I don't know. Seems like you ought to have to pass a test or something...just in case.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g


If that's my judge and jury, I think I will prevail.
:nanner:


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## Raeven

GG... (may I call you GG?) -- please let me add my welcomes, too.


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## nehimama

A big welcome to goatiegirls!


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## goatiegirls

Thank you all for the warm welcome!

and FBB, what are you trying to say? Goats and Sheep are not to be confused.

GG....who probably just offended some sheep-herder.


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## Guest

Hard time. Huh-huh. Y'all crack me up with the innuendos. Good job. There was a time..... But now, I just give one person a hard time.


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## calliemoonbeam

Welcome GG and Blinkers! Hope you like it and decide to hang around.


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## SimplerTimez

zong said:


> Hard time. Huh-huh. Y'all crack me up with the innuendos. Good job. There was a time..... But now, I just give one person a hard time.


You have a delimiter now?

~ST


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## Guest

Hardwired into my brainium. I give the object of my desire all my attention, until I wear her out. Hey, it's worked for me the last 45 years, I ain't gonna change now. Once you get what you want out of life, your best bet is to appreciate it with all the energy you can. I'd like to expand on that, but I know any statement od affection, love, sex, happiness, or anything that is real in my world, is frowned upon at HT, unless I include killing food stamp recipients, and hating the president. So, I can't say diddley poop.


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## littlejoe

Never got a hard time here. I've never posted much unless I called another post hogwash, or maybe had something to contribute? And that is pretty sparse. Sometimes it's forgotten.

Dropped in thru several stickywitch trials, guess no one ever accused me? The posts I most enjoy is seeing/hearing what others are doing to create their paradise. I got home at dusk, blew the loose hay off the truck off and greased it for tomorrow. Had a tree on the step that Stark sent as a replacement, so I got it set in the ground.

Now, I'm here. Mornings are early this time of the year, as long as this dryness holds.


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## CajunSunshine

Welcome Blinkers and Goatiegirl!! Looking forward to reading your posts!


.


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## mistletoad

bostonlesley said:


> Shrek said:
> "......Its hard enough for new participants to join in with the old timers here giving many new arrivals a hard time......"
> 
> I was concerned after reading this..concerned that perhaps I had a stroke along with the heart attack because I cannot recall any old timer giving a new arrival a hard time, never mind "many" new arrivals..
> 
> There have been a few new arrivals who posted as if this were a meat market site and were instantly corrected...but other than that...clueless here..
> 
> So are we meanies????? :shrug:


I'm not new and I'm not single, but yeah, there are meanies in here. I used to read in here a lot - before/during/after the whole stickywitch thing. I did think that in the immediate aftermath people were quick to assume anyone new was actually just another of his/her/its socks - but I fully understood why. I had exchanged PMs with one of the socks - obviously not in a romantic vein - and I know I felt angry when I found out "she" wasn't real, so I can only imagine the games she played and how much she hurt the people here.

So, up to date. I still read here, but lately it seems very cliquish and the few times I have posted there seemed to be drama that followed - along the lines of married people shouldn't be here, outsiders poking their noses in, etc. I don't take it personally, I know I have been here for longer than the people saying those things, but it isn't very friendly and so I post here less and less now.


----------



## Tommyice

mistletoad said:


> So, up to date. I still read here, but lately it seems very cliquish and the few times I have posted there seemed to be drama that followed - along the lines of married people shouldn't be here, outsiders poking their noses in, etc. I don't take it personally, I know I have been here for longer than the people saying those things, but it isn't very friendly and so I post here less and less now.


Married folks are always welcome--just make sure everyone knows you're married. Some of us have been "burned" (both online *and *in real life) by the occasional married person who has forgotten that one really important fact. So please keep poking (that sounds innuend-y but hey I'm sticking by it LOL). 

You are 100% right about the cliquishness. But you get that in all walks of life too--work, family, etc. The drama is most likely just a carry over from the "Secret Squirrel Society" meetings that happen elsewhere--just a guess on my part, I'm not a member--or the PMNN (Private Message Network News).

My personal view is that if you want someplace to be more friendly, then be friendly. Just like if you wish to see more people smile, then smile yourself  That's what I try to do.


----------



## Guest

mistletoad said:


> I'm not new and I'm not single, but yeah, there are meanies in here. I used to read in here a lot - before/during/after the whole stickywitch thing. I did think that in the immediate aftermath people were quick to assume anyone new was actually just another of his/her/its socks - but I fully understood why. I had exchanged PMs with one of the socks - obviously not in a romantic vein - and I know I felt angry when I found out "she" wasn't real, so I can only imagine the games she played and how much she hurt the people here.
> 
> So, up to date. I still read here, but lately it seems very cliquish and the few times I have posted there seemed to be drama that followed - along the lines of married people shouldn't be here, outsiders poking their noses in, etc. I don't take it personally, I know I have been here for longer than the people saying those things, but it isn't very friendly and so I post here less and less now.


I'm saddened to hear this...I know that often, when there is a heated discussion and people jump into it on ST who rarely if ever post on ST, the "regulars" tend to get annoyed...I've had that happen to me on other sub-forums as well...LOL..as in, "who do you think you are posting here?" 

Please post again on ST..there are many MANY married folks here as well as many people who are living with a romantic partner..there is no such thing as "you're not welcome to post here"...


----------



## mistletoad

Tommyice said:


> Married folks are always welcome--just make sure everyone knows you're married. Some of us have been "burned" (both online *and *in real life) by the occasional married person who has forgotten that one really important fact.


Good point - I'm married AND not looking! lol


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## mistletoad

bostonlesley said:


> I've had that happen to me on other sub-forums as well...LOL..as in, "who do you think you are posting here?"


Thanks, Lesley and you're right it happens everywhere. I didn't mean to imply otherwise, it was just that you asked. All that said, ST is still the sub-forum that seems "most like me" so I'll stick around.


----------



## painterswife

bostonlesley said:


> I'm saddened to hear this...I know that often, when there is a heated discussion and people jump into it on ST who rarely if ever post on ST, the "regulars" tend to get annoyed...I've had that happen to me on other sub-forums as well...LOL..as in, "who do you think you are posting here?"
> 
> Please post again on ST..there are many MANY married folks here as well as many people who are living with a romantic partner..there is no such thing as "you're not welcome to post here"...


You hit the nail right on. ST has so many great threads and topics happening, but when some venture in we are told that we either don't know the poster well enough, and therefore our info is not good enough. Many people single and married think they may have something to offer and the few times we have tried we get cut down. Sometimes the advice may be worded not to meet the cliquish standards sometimes not. I read here a lot. I see newcomers and old comers who venture in get scolded often.

It is sad because I find this forum to have some of the most even keeled discussions of sensitive and provoking topics.


----------



## Guest

painterswife said:


> You hit the nail right on. ST has so many great threads and topics happening, but when some venture in we are told that we either don't know the poster well enough, and therefore our info is not good enough. Many people single and married think they may have something to offer and the few times we have tried we get cut down. Sometimes the advice may be worded not to meet the cliquish standards sometimes not. I read here a lot. I see newcomers and old comers who venture in get scolded often.
> 
> It is sad because I find this forum to have some of the most even keeled discussions of sensitive and provoking topics.


I have to say that when it comes to people judging one of the ST members negatively, that will get a rise of out many regulars, including myself...the vast majority of regulars on ST have shared with one another the pure angst of being divorced or widowed..cheated on...or assauted...having the experience of their children being taken away, being left penniless and or homeless...the horrid loneliness for those first family holidays, the fear of going through illness alone...ST is much more than a casual, humor-filled sub forum to many people...
so when a person chimes in on a thread and wags a shame-on-you finger under the nose of someone whom WE know is already hurting, it is human nature to say, "Hey! Back off...you don't have the information that we do about what's really happening here."...

IMHO, there's a huge difference between being mean to casual posters who jump in one day to add to a discussion of shopping while single, and being protective of regular members who are being hurt by clueless casual posters who choose to comment on a post about a member's recent divorce......but of course, I could be completely incorrect


----------



## painterswife

bostonlesley said:


> I have to say that when it comes to people judging one of the ST members negatively, that will get a rise of out many regulars, including myself...the vast majority of regulars on ST have shared with one another the pure angst of being divorced or widowed..cheated on...or assauted...having the experience of their children being taken away, being left penniless and or homeless...the horrid loneliness for those first family holidays, the fear of going through illness alone...ST is much more than a casual, humor-filled sub forum to many people...
> so when a person chimes in on a thread and wags a shame-on-you finger under the nose of someone whom WE know is already hurting, it is human nature to say, "Hey! Back off...you don't have the information that we do about what's really happening here."...
> 
> IMHO, there's a huge difference between being mean to casual posters who jump in one day to add to a discussion of shopping while single, and being protective of regular members who are being hurt by clueless casual posters who choose to comment on a post about a member's recent divorce......but of course, I could be completely incorrect


I completely agree and have been guilty of that myself and personally apologized. It however is a pattern that plays out even when the posters are not clueless at all.

PS, it is no fun to get a PM that says you don't belong in this forum because you are married when lost of others are obviously married.


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## Guest

Just my own 2 cents again, but nobody whom I know and respect on ST would send such a pm to anyone......unfortunately, there are those few on ST who seem to enjoy pulling wings off of flies and kicking puppies....laughing while they hurt living things...fortunately, they are in the minority..


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## painterswife

bostonlesley said:


> Just my own 2 cents again, but nobody whom I know and respect on ST would send such a pm to anyone......unfortunately, there are those few on ST who seem to enjoy pulling wings off of flies and kicking puppies....laughing while they hurt living things...fortunately, they are in the minority..


You started this thread because you had the inclination that there might be those people and cliques here. Even the best also make mistakes.


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## Guest

No, I started this thread because I DIDN'T think that being mean to NEW posters was such a common occurance that if the forum were made "private" that newbies wouldn't ever stay...

I still believe that to be true, while being saddened that any meanness is displayed at all..ever..even in pm's.


----------



## painterswife

bostonlesley said:


> No, I started this thread because I DIDN'T think that being mean to NEW posters was such a common occurance that if the forum were made "private" that newbies wouldn't ever stay...
> 
> I still believe that to be true, while being saddened that any meanness is displayed at all..ever..even in pm's.


Think of how many actually spoke up and said it has happened to them. I believe that many will not venture a response and others won't even venture in the forum anymore.


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## wr

I've also received a barrage of vile pm's for daring to respond to threads, 'because I have no right to post in ST.' I was told that since I don't post daily, I was not welcome to comment once in a while or offer a response based on personal experience in a certain area. 

I've been a member and a mod for a great many years and to date, I've never been unkind or hurtful but I will respond honestly without being unkind. Interestingly enough, while I was being berated and insulted in pm, many 'old timers' were offering the very same advice and received positive responses.

Just because members respond periodically doesn't mean we aren't reading and it doesn't mean we don't have experience in certain areas.


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## Guest

Obviously, I'm not privy to the content of pms...sometimes I wish that I were...sometimes...
I can only speak for myself, without knowing anything about nasty rude pm's, the public tone of ST towards new comers is, IMHO mostly positive with very few exceptions...

It's unfortunate that some ST dwellers should opt for the cowardly pm bashing of others...if people don't complain, I'd venture to say it doesn't get fixed...OTOH, complaining on ST can be a problem in and of itself it appears..


----------



## painterswife

bostonlesley said:


> Obviously, I'm not privy to the content of pms...sometimes I wish that I were...sometimes...
> I can only speak for myself, without knowing anything about nasty rude pm's, the public tone of ST towards new comers is, IMHO mostly positive with very few exceptions...
> 
> It's unfortunate that some ST dwellers should opt for the cowardly pm bashing of others...if people don't complain, I'd venture to say it doesn't get fixed...OTOH, complaining on ST can be a problem in and of itself it appears..


I am curious why you asked when you seem not to really believe either the PM's or the impression that people do get in the forums? I can understand that you want to believe it is not true but you keeping repeating that it is your opinion that it is not prevalent when several feel it is.( even those that stuck it out and joined the group. It feels quite dismissive and exactly why many have not stuck around.


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## Ardie/WI

Well, If I received a PM telling me that I should not post in ST cause I'm married....well, I'd be inclined to tell the sender where to put the PM!


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## Guest

painterswife said:


> I am curious why you asked when you seem not to really believe either the PM's or the impression that people do get in the forums? I can understand that you want to believe it is not true but you keeping repeating that it is your opinion that it is not prevalent when several feel it is.( even those that stuck it out and joined the group. It feels quite dismissive and exactly why many have not stuck around.


I cannot imagine how you would get the impression from what I posted that I disbelieve what anyone has said about their personal experiences with ST...

Dismissive? I've said several times that there are some people on ST who use the pm feature to bash people, and what I thought about that...my saying that I don't know anyone who did that is accurate..I never have..and the folks whom I call "friends" here would never do such a thing..obviously, I'm not friends with everyone on ST and cannot speak to their behaviors..


I've already explained why I posted this topic...and with 4 people stating that they have either been on the receiving end of nastiness publically or via pm , and based upon my own observations over the years, it remains my opinion..worth only something to me usually....that the vast majority of folks who are regulars on ST are nice, warm, welcoming people to new posters on the site..and a few members of ST are complete rude nasty people who cowardly attack newbies via pm....and or publically...

I don't ask that anyone agree with me...if you'd care to disagree, then by all means, continue to do so...my word has never been biblical..


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## Guest

It is my understanding that you can report a PM, just like a post, by clicking on the triangle. Or, you can carry on a lively PM argument. I've said(in the forum too, I'm not in the least bit bashful) that anybody who's been married for 25 years has no business telling someone of the opposite sex how to be single. And one of the women who has been in with a dozen or so usernames kept trumpeting about how she went 10 years or something without sex and the rest of us should do the same. Hey, I'm 63 years old, I ain't waiting 10 years for nothing. One woman claimed she was working a chainsaw on a daily basis at 78 years old. Seriously, stupid statements need to be pointed out, whether in ST, or gardening. (My tomatoes cross pollinated with my corn, and now my hens are laying red eggs)


----------



## Guest

zong said:


> It is my understanding that you can report a PM, just like a post, by clicking on the triangle. Or, you can carry on a lively PM argument. I've said(in the forum too, I'm not in the least bit bashful) that anybody who's been married for 25 years has no business telling someone of the opposite sex how to be single. And one of the women who has been in with a dozen or so usernames kept trumpeting about how she went 10 years or something without sex and the rest of us should do the same. Hey, I'm 63 years old, I ain't waiting 10 years for nothing. One woman claimed she was working a chainsaw on a daily basis at 78 years old. Seriously, stupid statements need to be pointed out, whether in ST, or gardening. (My tomatoes cross pollinated with my corn, and now my hens are laying red eggs)


I agree with you that contex is everything.. I certainly would not venture to add my two cents into a disagreement on the best way to go "off grid", since the knowledge that I have on that subject is extremely superficial and worth nothing to anyone actually wanting input from others.


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## sustainabilly

zong said:


> It is my understanding that you can report a PM, just like a post, by clicking on the triangle. Or, you can carry on a lively PM argument. I've said(in the forum too, I'm not in the least bit bashful) that anybody who's been married for 25 years has no business telling someone of the opposite sex how to be single. And one of the women who has been in with a dozen or so usernames kept trumpeting about how she went 10 years or something without sex and the rest of us should do the same. Hey, I'm 63 years old, I ain't waiting 10 years for nothing. One woman claimed she was working a chainsaw on a daily basis at 78 years old. Seriously, stupid statements need to be pointed out, whether in ST, or gardening. (My tomatoes cross pollinated with my corn, and now my hens are laying red eggs)


Did you make a youtube of it?


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## painterswife

zong said:


> It is my understanding that you can report a PM, just like a post, by clicking on the triangle. Or, you can carry on a lively PM argument. I've said(in the forum too, I'm not in the least bit bashful) that anybody who's been married for 25 years has no business telling someone of the opposite sex how to be single. And one of the women who has been in with a dozen or so usernames kept trumpeting about how she went 10 years or something without sex and the rest of us should do the same. Hey, I'm 63 years old, I ain't waiting 10 years for nothing. One woman claimed she was working a chainsaw on a daily basis at 78 years old. Seriously, stupid statements need to be pointed out, whether in ST, or gardening. (My tomatoes cross pollinated with my corn, and now my hens are laying red eggs)


Well I have been married for only 14 years but I was single for 40 years before that and have that down quite well and understand it a way (I think) that people that got married early and have gone from marriage to marriage might not. I just might have a few things I could have offered.

Reporting a PM that tells you because you are married now you have no worth in a forum accomplishes nothing.


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## Fowler

bostonlesley said:


> I have to say that when it comes to people judging one of the ST members negatively, that will get a rise of out many regulars, including myself...the vast majority of regulars on ST have shared with one another the pure angst of being divorced or widowed..cheated on...or assauted...having the experience of their children being taken away, being left penniless and or homeless...the horrid loneliness for those first family holidays, the fear of going through illness alone...ST is much more than a casual, humor-filled sub forum to many people...
> so when a person chimes in on a thread and wags a shame-on-you finger under the nose of someone whom WE know is already hurting, it is human nature to say, "Hey! Back off...you don't have the information that we do about what's really happening here."...
> 
> IMHO, there's a huge difference between being mean to casual posters who jump in one day to add to a discussion of shopping while single, and being protective of regular members who are being hurt by clueless casual posters who choose to comment on a post about a member's recent divorce......but of course, I could be completely incorrect


WoW!...Is all this drama because of little ol me?....I am flattered. The world would be so boring if we all thought the same. You're welcome.


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## sustainabilly

........:facepalm:......


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## mistletoad

Didn't take long for this to go the same old way. I can see why so few bothered to take the bait - unfortunately I had not recongnised it for what it was. Bravo, SW couldn't have done it better.


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## Guest

mistletoad said:


> Didn't take long for this to go the same old way. I can see why so few bothered to take the bait - unfortunately I had not recongnised it for what it was. Bravo, SW couldn't have done it better.


It wasn't anything..no agenda..nada...I'm truly sorry that you feel the posting to be some sort of jab at people...it was never meant to be...I'm disappointed as well if it matters...sad. sad commentary..


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## Terri in WV

mistletoad said:


> Didn't take long for this to go the same old way. I can see why so few bothered to take the bait - unfortunately I had not recongnised it for what it was. Bravo, SW couldn't have done it better.


Boy, if that isn't one of the most "off the mark" comments ever made, I don't know what is.

Anyone that has been around for any time knows that MizLesley is one of the most conscientious, considerate, and kindest posters ever. 

I, like Lesley, feel bad that some don't consider it comfortable enough to post here. Also, like her, I haven't seen all of the meanness that others apparently have. I've also never been privy to the pm nastiness and find that surprising.

I have seen "outsiders" come in and seem to goad regulars and do nothing more than take a poke at someone and then, yes, the wagons circle. 

I have also seen it been said many times that ST is one of the most laid back, friendliness areas for all of HT.

So, now I'm not quite sure what it may be, mean and cliquish, or nice and friendly, I just know I like the folks here.


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## roadless

All I know is the women and men here have reached out to me and continue to do so throughout a traumatic time in my life. 

The site was truly a lifeline and I am very grateful and protective of these fine people. :kissy:


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## elkhound

if yall make me pull this car over.........lol


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## roadless

The Two Travelers and the Farmer

North America

A traveler came upon an old farmer hoeing in his field beside the road. Eager to rest his feet, the wanderer hailed the countryman, who seemed happy enough to straighten his back and talk for a moment.
"What sort of people live in the next town?" asked the stranger.

"What were the people like where you've come from?" replied the farmer, answering the question with another question.

"They were a bad lot. Troublemakers all, and lazy too. The most selfish people in the world, and not a one of them to be trusted. I'm happy to be leaving the scoundrels."

"Is that so?" replied the old farmer. "Well, I'm afraid that you'll find the same sort in the next town.

Disappointed, the traveler trudged on his way, and the farmer returned to his work.

Some time later another stranger, coming from the same direction, hailed the farmer, and they stopped to talk. "What sort of people live in the next town?" he asked.

"What were the people like where you've come from?" replied the farmer once again.

"They were the best people in the world. Hard working, honest, and friendly. I'm sorry to be leaving them."

"Fear not," said the farmer. "You'll find the same sort in the next town."


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## mistletoad

bostonlesley said:


> I agree with you that contex is everything.. I certainly would not venture to add my two cents into a disagreement on the best way to go "off grid", since the knowledge that I have on that subject is extremely superficial and worth nothing to anyone actually wanting input from others.


I think perhaps it is so ingrained that it hides in plain sight - it may be unintentional but I don't have the information that you do about what's really happening here - the post quoted above, in the context of this thread, screams - married people have only superficial knowledge and no input worth sharing when it comes to..., what? Being single? We all were, you know, single. Oh that's right, you spelled that out too, it's the ...the pure angst of being divorced or widowed..cheated on...or assauted...having the experience of their children being taken away, being left penniless and or homeless...the horrid loneliness for those first family holidays, the fear of going through illness alone. Yep, I don't suppose any married person has ever had any experience of any of that. No one ever gets over a divorce and finds happiness the second, or third, or nth time around. Perhaps what it is we want to share is the support that was shown to us, the hope for the future that we wish to people who are hurting, a sign-post to the light that we found at the end of the tunnel.

And the wagons circling? That happens way before anyone ever says an untoward thing towards anyone (but I notice you only mentioned "members" - as opposed to us outsiders I assume?). It happened here as soon as it looked like more than one person was going to share how unwelcome they are made to feel here. I honestly did not post to poke fingers or grumble - I wanted to answer your question thinking you wanted to know, now it appears you only wanted reassurance it wasn't true.

So, if any of you really do wish this place wasn't looked at as unwelcoming, you might want to re-read your own posts to see if there is any sign of an us vs. them mentality - even accidentally, because that is not the way to roll out the welcome mat.

Anyway, I doubt you will agree with me or recognise any truth in it, but I have no control over that. I do not believe in us and them, not singles vs married, not men vs women, not city vs country, but I guess that is an unpopular opinion here as well.


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## Guest

mistletoad said:


> I think perhaps it is so ingrained that it hides in plain sight - it may be unintentional but I don't have the information that you do about what's really happening here - the post quoted above, in the context of this thread, screams - married people have only superficial knowledge and no input worth sharing when it comes to..., what? Being single? We all were, you know, single. Oh that's right, you spelled that out too, it's the ...the pure angst of being divorced or widowed..cheated on...or assauted...having the experience of their children being taken away, being left penniless and or homeless...the horrid loneliness for those first family holidays, the fear of going through illness alone. Yep, I don't suppose any married person has ever had any experience of any of that. No one ever gets over a divorce and finds happiness the second, or third, or nth time around. Perhaps what it is we want to share is the support that was shown to us, the hope for the future that we wish to people who are hurting, a sign-post to the light that we found at the end of the tunnel.
> 
> And the wagons circling? That happens way before anyone ever says an untoward thing towards anyone (but I notice you only mentioned "members" - as opposed to us outsiders I assume?). It happened here as soon as it looked like more than one person was going to share how unwelcome they are made to feel here. I honestly did not post to poke fingers or grumble - I wanted to answer your question thinking you wanted to know, now it appears you only wanted reassurance it wasn't true.
> 
> So, if any of you really do wish this place wasn't looked at as unwelcoming, you might want to re-read your own posts to see if there is any sign of an us vs. them mentality - even accidentally, because that is not the way to roll out the welcome mat.
> 
> Anyway, I doubt you will agree with me or recognise any truth in it, but I have no control over that. I do not believe in us and them, not singles vs married, not men vs women, not city vs country, but I guess that is an unpopular opinion here as well.





I was replying strictly to Zong's post..in agreement with his statement of "seriously stupid" postings..one of which would be me giving an opinion on how to get off grid..

and..I'd be the last person to complain about married folks posting on ST..or thinking there is no light at the end of a divorce or widow tunnel...I was divorced...alone for many years...dated...and am happily married now to the man of my dreams...he and I were friends for years..on ST..


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## oneraddad

I'm upset and will probably not sleep well tonight, all because of you happily married people. You post about being happy all the time, while I sit here with only my dog and a rootbeer. I'm going to check out my sock drawer.


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## oneraddad

Oh.... don't let 15 minutes of the internet define your day


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## roadless

Don't forget a toothbrush and tupperware oneraddad.


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## bigjon

i'm relatively new here,been a real pleasure to join ur community.from elk to shine to linda marie-nothing but acceptance and politeness.


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## FarmboyBill

Z, As I understand your post, and maybe stretching it to make a point.

You say that married people have no knowledge of what us singles go through, day to day. Well, Lesley is married, now, that's true. BUT she wasn't for a long time. Sos you sayin that she hasn't got any kind of view point on the single life?
Your married now, Does that mean that you also shouldn't be posting your views on single life??

I DONT think so, and I think that the both of you have had many experiences of when you were single that would be beneficial at times to people insituations you remember well.

Doncha think that theres other married now people who wernt for a long time that feel like giving their view point on things? 
I say post, and take yer chances. If someone dosent intend to hurt somebody, likely as snot, they wont get hurt themselves.


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## unregisterd365936

Wow. Such a string of ... stuff ...

I came to the ST forum because I thought it might be a good place to meet and chat with single folks. Okay, so now I know it's for married folks too??? :huh: Okay, well as long as I can tell who's married and who isn't ....(scratches her head). I think I might go find somewhere that says "Introductions" and start reading. Seems safer.


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## Tommyice

Perception and/or perspective. That's all that going on here. Some may feel or actually were treated unkindly while others may feel they were welcomed with coffee and cookies. 










Do you see a profile of a man or only half his face?

If I'm going to dissect and analyze anything right now, it's going to be the pics at the Singles Meat Market and Produce Stands.


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## Twp.Tom

Welcome Blinkers*, You have landed in the right place! This is a great group of friendly, helpful, caring people-some single, some Married. I think if You hang out for a bit, join in when You Like, You won't be disappointed*. I have only been visiting here for a Year and a half*. I have learned so much, about all kinds of things*, and met some really fine folks* Come join us*. Single, and Rockin' it here*


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## Shygal

zong said:


> One woman claimed she was working a chainsaw on a daily basis at 78 years old. Seriously, stupid statements need to be pointed out, whether in ST, or gardening.



Uh, whats wrong with the idea that a 78 year old woman can run a chainsaw on a daily basis? You think that is a stupid statement? My mom is 80 and she splits wood all winter.

You're right, stupid statements need to be pointed out, and yours right there is stupid.


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## arcticow

Sorry. tired..wrong post...


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## Tommyice

Yup Articow all of us Singletreers are bananas. And we hang together. As a bunch.


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## Raeven

I think it's always hard to take criticism. 

In truth, I saw quite a few folks trying to tell us we might be a little hard on unfamiliar faces. I'm guilty as charged on occasion. My apologies to those, if you felt I visited harshness on you. 

Your points are valid. This is a tight-knit group, and with all the history, it's hard not to jump to defend. But new folks are what keep us vibrant, so I hope you'll give us another try. Sometimes we just get off on the wrong foot.

And thank you. It's not easy to say things that are hard to hear.


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## Darren

I'm flabbergasted reading this thread. I don't recall and didn't participate in the knock down, drag outs. The newbie, old timer thing is strange to me too. That doesn't register although I recall the new poster wandering in and ordering up a special. ound: I remember thinking it was a joke at first. That was about the time he took a lot of incoming.

I've always liked how people support each other for the most part. Over time the mind fools you with a mental image of people. Then you find out the females, or so you thought, are males and vice versa. It's sort of like the clerk down at the Go Mart on Sunday telling someone she had two girls. I don't know anything about her. I would have guessed she was in her early twenties. Then she told me her two daughters were 26 and 28 which puts her in her forties. Talk about your deer in the headlights look. I was speechless. Some of the stuff here is about the same.

Life is neat that way. About the time you think you know what's up, you get a surprise. Obviously I need to get out more often. Maybe Fowler will explain that rug making for money thing.


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## Guest

The main reason that I posted this topic :
A few days ago I'd gone over to Admin to find out who owned HT
now.. Melissa kindly posted a link.. I clicked onto it and voila.. There was HST Admin.. And there were comments , apparently from emails sent out to members of HT who no longer post here..

One of them astounded me.. It was from a woman who had posted often on ST while she was active duty military.. I recall her reception by ST as exceptionally supportive... Thank you for your service! Welcome!!! And I read her statement to the new owner ... The people at ST were unkind.. That same day I got a pm from another long time ST poster asking if I'd seen that and how was it possible that she'd said such a thing?

So I was focused on the statement by Shrek, bolstered by the former poster ... Not about HT members who dont usually hang at ST.. New arrivals to the site.. How are THEY treated..
When people posted ill treatment from ST towards established site members, that to me was a separate issue.. Still lousy with rudeness yet not what I was asking about.. I thought it was clear.. Obviously not


----------



## Guest

FarmboyBill said:


> Z, As I understand your post, and maybe stretching it to make a point.
> 
> You say that married people have no knowledge of what us singles go through, day to day. Well, Lesley is married, now, that's true. BUT she wasn't for a long time. Sos you sayin that she hasn't got any kind of view point on the single life?
> Your married now, Does that mean that you also shouldn't be posting your views on single life??
> 
> I DONT think so, and I think that the both of you have had many experiences of when you were single that would be beneficial at times to people insituations you remember well.
> 
> Doncha think that theres other married now people who wernt for a long time that feel like giving their view point on things?
> I say post, and take yer chances. If someone dosent intend to hurt somebody, likely as snot, they wont get hurt themselves.


Nope, I said that a woman who has been married for 25 years has no business telling a much older man who has been widowed how to be a single older man. Maybe she was single before she was married, but chances are she wasn't a 63 year old single man before she got married at 20. or even 40. 

After all, I don't try to tell women how to be women. That is the very definition of crazy. I have no experience at being a woman. Furthermore, I only know what I like and what applies to me. As has been pointed out many times by many folks, we're all different, suffer differently, and are made happy differently. We can commiserate with each other, offer condolences, share our own experiences, but we really shouldn't bother trying to tell people of the opposite sex how to be a man, or woman.

@Roadless: Why, oh why couldn't you have made your story about 2 time travelers??


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## roadless

I didn't write the story Zong, and anything I say that makes sense I pilfered, the rest I'll take credit for! :gaptooth:


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## Laura Zone 5

bostonlesley said:


> The main reason that I posted this topic :
> A few days ago I'd gone over to Admin to find out who owned HT
> now.. Melissa kindly posted a link.. I clicked onto it and voila.. There was HST Admin.. And there were comments , apparently from emails sent out to members of HT who no longer post here..
> 
> One of them astounded me.. It was from a woman who had posted often on ST while she was active duty military.. I recall her reception by ST as exceptionally supportive... Thank you for your service! Welcome!!! And I read her statement to the new owner ... The people at ST were unkind.. That same day I got a pm from another long time ST poster asking if I'd seen that and how was it possible that she'd said such a thing?
> 
> So I was focused on the statement by Shrek, bolstered by the former poster ... Not about HT members who dont usually hang at ST.. New arrivals to the site.. How are THEY treated..
> When people posted ill treatment from ST towards established site members, that to me was a separate issue.. Still lousy with rudeness yet not what I was asking about.. I thought it was clear.. Obviously not


Sent you a PM friend!


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## Terri in WV

bostonlesley said:


> One of them astounded me.. It was from a woman who had posted often on ST while she was active duty military.. I recall her reception by ST as exceptionally supportive... Thank you for your service! Welcome!!! And I read her statement to the new owner ... The people at ST were unkind.. That same day I got a pm from another long time ST poster asking if I'd seen that and how was it possible that she'd said such a thing?


I didn't venture into ST much until after hubs was gone and then not until after I moved and got settled('09). 

The above statement made me curious and now I'm more so. I wanted to see how ST was unkind, so I skimmed through her posts that go back to her start date('05). There seems to be 169 posts missing, but of the remainder, not one of them was to ST. I can't imagine treatment so bad that she'd want to be purged completely from ST. Yet, with no posts showing to here, there is no way to validate or deny the claims.

So, I can only go back to my own personal observations, which is, that folks are generally welcomed into ST. I imagine that more people got ran off after the SW incident than at any other time, because that's when suspicions ran rampant. There have been a few that were set straight after they posted their ads. There have been some that post for a few days and then disappeared, saying it's not what they expected and I've seen many posts about how ST is the most laid backed and friendly area in all of HT.

I guess it all comes back to...interpretation is a funny thing.....


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## Guest

Unless I'm getting different data, ST posts only go back to June, 2012. I've seen Shrek and Terri mention many times that the older threads get pruned periodically. Apparently, nobody ever post anything good enough to keep, like the threads on CF and other forums, which go back to 2006. Or, more likely, they should prune their old threads too. (gardening forum goes back to 2003)


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## painterswife

Terri in WV said:


> I guess it all comes back to...perception is a funny thing.....


This perception thing keeps getting repeated. I can understand that others may not have experienced "a hard time" when trying to integrate or post in the forum but suggesting that those that believe they have is about perception is exactly the dismissive attitude that keeps people away.

You may not mean it to come across that way but that passive /aggressive response is not welcoming. Just like my mother use to say " I don't need you to explain it, justify it or talk it away, just admit it might be my reality."

It won't make a difference to me but it just might make a difference to either a new person coming to HT for the first time or an old member of HT that is newly single and is looking for friendship.

I will also note that Navygirl posted that recently and she is not a new member of HT.


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## oneraddad

I get pruned often ?


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## Bret

I am a married poster and ST is part of my minimum daily requirement of fun as I click on New Posts and sprint through the posts often not looking where they come from. My posts are always accepted for the shallow superficial way that they are intended. I once posted grinning that I had "gifts" and received a PM asking if I really thought that that I gifts. I advised, no, not in that sense...just that everything that I have or achieved was not of my own, but given to me, or helped to obtain by others. Another poster suggested that she thought that Oggie and I were the same person.  I have never said anything against cats, that I remember. 

Near and far, we are the same person, each of us. When I am given a rough time, I take it as a compliment and ribbing. Thank you. I have been thrown out of "Ban the loser above you" more times than I know for some really frivolous reasons. The only place I have been given a hard time.


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## Twp.Tom

Banned! lol


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## Terri in WV

zong, I went under "find all posts by..." and just reported what I saw.




painterswife said:


> This perception thing keeps getting repeated. I can understand that others may not have experienced "a hard time" when trying to integrate or post in the forum but suggesting that those that believe they have is about perception is exactly the dismissive attitude that keeps people away.
> 
> You may not mean it to come across that way but that passive /aggressive response is not welcoming. Just like my mother use to say " I don't need you to explain it, justify it or talk it away, just admit it might be my reality."
> 
> It won't make a difference to me but it just might make a difference to either a new person coming to HT for the first time or an old member of HT that is newly single and is looking for friendship.
> 
> I will also note that Navygirl posted that recently and she is not a new member of HT.


My saying perception/interpretation is NOT being dismissive NOR is it being passive/aggressive however it IS my reality of the situation. Everyone processes things differently and I gave MY view just as you gave yours.

Here's another bit of reality that I've noticed. You don't seem to come to ST to integrate, but more to stir the pot.

And I will also note that we know she is not a new member, but we also don't know when she felt she was slighted by ST.


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## painterswife

Terri in WV said:


> zong, I went under "find all posts by..." and just reported what I saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My saying perception/interpretation is NOT being dismissive NOR is it being passive/aggressive however it IS my reality of the situation. Everyone processes things differently and I gave MY view just as you gave yours.
> 
> Here's another bit of reality that I've noticed. You don't seem to come to ST to integrate, but more to stir the pot.
> 
> And I will also note that we know she is not a new member, but we also don't know when she felt she was slighted by ST.


Does it matter when she was slighted? Am I stirring the pot or am I responding to a post ? Is it stirring the pot to respond with my opinion and outlook on my experience in ST? Maybe that is part of the problem. My participation and experience (and of course you can only see part of it as the rest has been trimmed) is judged as pot stirring and nothing more.


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## Guest

painterswife said:


> Does it matter when she was slighted? Am I stirring the pot or am I responding to a post ? Is it stirring the pot to respond with my opinion and outlook on my experience in ST? Maybe that is part of the problem. My participation and experience (and of course you can only see part of it as the rest has been trimmed) is judged as pot stirring and nothing more.


So here's the deal.......
I have a habit of browsing through old posts of people who SEEM to be pot-stirring...funny how those old posts reveal so much information about a person...how many posts they have written which criticize other people...how many posts they have written which serve only to keep those flames burning brightly vs calm an argument down....I love old posts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

I spent time last night happily reading a lot of old posts from a few people ...
You have a nice day now


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## Terri in WV

painterswife said:


> Does it matter when she was slighted? Am I stirring the pot or am I responding to a post ? Is it stirring the pot to respond with my opinion and outlook on my experience in ST? Maybe that is part of the problem. My participation and experience (and of course you can only see part of it as the rest has been trimmed) is judged as pot stirring and nothing more.


Well, seeing as how we were talking about new arrivals, I think it does.

And from what I have seen, your participation has not been to integrate yourself with ST.


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## painterswife

Terri in WV said:


> Well, seeing as how we were talking about new arrivals, I think it does.
> 
> And from what I have seen, your participation has not been to integrate yourself with ST.


Maybe that was because of exactly what this original thread was about. I was not treated very nicely when I did.


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## viggie

Giving members a hard time for believing members are given a hard time. Gotta love it.


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## painterswife

bostonlesley said:


> So here's the deal.......
> I have a habit of browsing through old posts of people who SEEM to be pot-stirring...funny how those old posts reveal so much information about a person...how many posts they have written which criticize other people...how many posts they have written which serve only to keep those flames burning brightly vs calm an argument down....I love old posts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I spent time last night happily reading a lot of old posts from a few people ...
> You have a nice day now


My impression of your posting history is that you have done some of what could be called pot stirring. You asked questions I have responded in a very civilized and measured way. I guess that is now pot stirring. No wonder new people think this forum can be uninviting.


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## Bret

bostonlesley said:


> So here's the deal.......
> I have a habit of browsing through old posts of people who SEEM to be pot-stirring...funny how those old posts reveal so much information about a person...how many posts they have written which criticize other people...how many posts they have written which serve only to keep those flames burning brightly vs calm an argument down....I love old posts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I spent time last night happily reading a lot of old posts from a few people ...
> You have a nice day now


This is why I always wear clean underwear when posting. You never know when someone is going to read what you wrote. Reading some of my old posts sometimes causes me to thump my forehead.


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## Terri in WV

I'd like to paraphrase another poster:

Don't like it, too bad for you.


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## Jade1096

I've been around for awhile but rarely post much of anything.

I have seen rudeness and clique type behavior as well as experienced some pretty ugly PMs.

I've also had people be extremely kind and supportive towards me as well.

I think it's important to remember that you don't "know" anyone online, they aren't your neighbors, and you don't have to go home with them at the end of the day. Keep everything in it's place and in the right perspective and no one gets too bent out of shape.


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## painterswife

You can make this about me all you want. I have not cared whether this forum accepts me for a very long time. I am however voicing what others do not want to say because of the treatment I am getting because I dared to. They will not even like my posts because they think that will put them in the headlights if they post in the future.

The question was posted. You don't like the answers. That is loud and clear and out there for all new posters to ponder. In fact you should make it a sticky.


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## oneraddad

painterswife said:


> My impression of your posting history is that you have done some of what could be called pot stirring. You asked questions I have responded in a very civilized and measured way. I guess that is now pot stirring. No wonder new people think this forum can be uninviting.



You'd think anywhere you were, would be all roses with you cheery attitude


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## Terri in WV

Oh, I think there's already something stuck somewhere...


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## Guest

Terri in WV said:


> I'd like to paraphrase another poster:
> 
> Don't like it, too bad for you.


oh my...what comes around goes around doesn't it? or is it, what goes around comes around? ROFLOL


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## painterswife

oneraddad said:


> You'd think anywhere you were, would be all roses with you cheery attitude


No I don't. I am also not suggesting that it should be. I am though responding to the initial premise of this thread.


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## painterswife

Terri in WV said:


> I'd like to paraphrase another poster:
> 
> Don't like it, too bad for you.


Was this ever about whether I like it or not? No. it was about answering the OP's original question.


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## Terri in WV

bostonlesley said:


> oh my...what comes around goes around doesn't it? or is it, what goes around comes around? ROFLOL


Yes, I think it does and either way works for me.


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## Guest

See?? How could a child be offended here? 2 seconds and off to nickelodeon. Shaking their heads and adjusting their pajamas. Never to look back.


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## oneraddad

Tuesday I watched the Disney channel with my Granddaughter and this place is tame in comparison to the way 8-14 y/o act on TV.


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## WhyNot

Thing is... when someone is happy with something they tell about 5 people. When someone is unhappy with something they tell at least 20.

Unhappy people generally tend to hold onto unhappiness, hoard misery and hang onto bad experiences. While I have watched the whole dynamic change here since I joined, it is much more laid back now than it was.

-------
I have to laugh. When I joined here people were leery...I was new....this is normal on a forum. I've been doing forums and bulletin boards on the internet since like 1992 so...not new, you have to "break in"...it's a social group...this is normal.

Anyway...by most people I was treated well. However there was a contingent on here at the time that treated me not so well...but I knew that would happen going in since the main person...the instigator of all the drama was apparently very jealous of me. And that is actually why I joined and became active...to simply sit here and participate and let my presence be known.

Really interesting is the "contingent" was fine with me until they found out who I was LOL (no, not the witch...but I was accused of that many times too...wasn't here for that mess either). However, I never fell into their drama games and simply went about my business while they stirred things up with each other like 5th graders in Pm's emails and telephone calls. After about a year I think...it finally settled down. 

And now here I am...just try to get rid of me.


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## Guest

All I can think about that sort of stuff is the weird people who used to be Hannah Montana and Amanda something. So, I'm not at all surprised.


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## Fowler

Fairies and unicorns follow me everywhere....LOL They clean up all the poo I fling....LOL


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## oneraddad

Fowler said:


> Fairies and unicorns follow me everywhere....LOL They clean up all the poo I fling....LOL



I have a really hard time believing you sat at the bar and no one noticed you until you got up to leave.


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## Guest

oneraddad said:


> I have a really hard time believing you sat at the bar and no one noticed you until you got up to leave.


Yeah, with them unicorns standing behind her, you'd think they woulda asked her to leave. Not gonna touch the "fairies" part..


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## Laura Zone 5

And tinker bell waves her little wand like this...........


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## Echoesechos

You know I have a saying I use mostly at work on how a five minute observation from the public can so easily impact how our organization is perceived. " their perception becomes their reality". Think that might apply here too.

I lurked for awhile here before posting and while I wasn't mistreated I was treated cautiously. I came from a very friendly garden group so it made me question if I was really welcomed or not. But you're all stuck with me now.  Guess that tells you I've adapted or something.


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## roadless

One of the things I do with the students when things get a bit riled up is that I hold up a book and ask them to describe it to me. They do so in detail , the picture on the cover, the color, the words etc.
Then I describe what I see, the picture, words etc..

They quickly tell me I am wrong, I then turn the book around to show that what I have described is accurate, on the back of the book.

To me it isn't a matter of right or wrong.
It really does come down to my perspective and I realize others have theirs.


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## CajunSunshine

bigjon said:


> i'm relatively new here,been a real pleasure to join ur community.from elk to *shine* to linda marie-nothing but acceptance and politeness.


If I am the "shine" you referred to, why thank you, kind suh. If not, well then, thank you anyway, because feelings are mutual! :thumb:

As for the politeness you speak of...well, for the most part yeah, that. But sometimes not. As a group, the folks here are refreshingly genuine, very upfront...and very loyal and protective of their own friends (or ideals). And because of those traits, a few folks (old-timers and newbies alike) have been called out for their bull-loney, or for repeatedly pushing the wrong buttons. Sometimes it can be um...quite spectacular, depending upon how ignoble the person being called out was and who/how many were doing the calling, lol. 

Over the years, I have greatly enjoyed the many facets of HomesteadingToday/ST, including many individual insights and delightful personalities. Yep, even the occasional sour grapes are appreciated, because they keep me well supplied with popcorn.

The extra fiber in my diet is good for my health, too. It's all good.



.


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## sustainabilly

Jade1096 said:


> I've been around for awhile but rarely post much of anything.
> 
> I have seen rudeness and clique type behavior as well as experienced some pretty ugly PMs.
> 
> I've also had people be extremely kind and supportive towards me as well.
> 
> *I think it's important to remember that you don't "know" anyone online, they aren't your neighbors, and you don't have to go home with them at the end of the day. Keep everything in it's place and in the right perspective and no one gets too bent out of shape.*


And.......



roadless said:


> One of the things I do with the students when things get a bit riled up is that I hold up a book and ask them to describe it to me. They do so in detail , the picture on the cover, the color, the words etc.
> Then I describe what I see, the picture, words etc..
> 
> They quickly tell me I am wrong, I then turn the book around to show that what I have described is accurate, on the back of the book.
> 
> To me it isn't a matter of right or wrong.
> *It really does come down to my perspective and I realize others have theirs.*


Perspective. Mostly easy to accept, when viewing life through the 20/20 of hindsight. A rare and wonderful attribute when practiced by those who use it in the now.




WhyNot said:


> Thing is... when someone is happy with something they tell about 5 people. When someone is unhappy with something they tell at least 20.
> 
> *Unhappy people generally tend to hold onto unhappiness, hoard misery and hang onto bad experiences.* While I have watched the whole dynamic change here since I joined, it is much more laid back now than it was.
> 
> -------
> I have to laugh. When I joined here people were leery...I was new....this is normal on a forum. I've been doing forums and bulletin boards on the internet since like 1992 so...not new, you have to "break in"...it's a social group...this is normal.
> 
> Anyway...by most people I was treated well. However there was a contingent on here at the time that treated me not so well...but I knew that would happen going in since the main person...the instigator of all the drama was apparently very jealous of me. And that is actually why I joined and became active...to simply sit here and participate and let my presence be known.
> 
> Really interesting is the "contingent" was fine with me until they found out who I was LOL (no, not the witch...but I was accused of that many times too...wasn't here for that mess either). However, I never fell into their drama games and simply went about my business while they stirred things up with each other like 5th graders in Pm's emails and telephone calls. After about a year I think...it finally settled down.
> 
> And now here I am...just try to get rid of me.


Until they learn to work through it. Usually, with a little help from friends. To boil it down, I'd say this is kinda the point of our little ST community.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bret said:


> This is why I always wear clean underwear when posting. You never know when someone is going to read what you wrote. Reading some of my old posts sometimes causes me to thump my forehead.


"True... true", he murmurs while chuckling... with a side order of chagrin.:ashamed: 
I knew my headaches weren't because of old glasses. But, errr, I'll take the fifth on that underwear thing.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Laura Zone 5 said:


> And tinker bell waves her little wand like this...........


Hey! You _were_ paying attention during pixie training!:thumb:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



bostonlesley said:


> So here's the deal.......
> I have a habit of browsing through old posts of people who SEEM to be pot-stirring...funny how those old posts reveal so much information about a person...how many posts they have written which criticize other people...how many posts they have written which serve only to keep those flames burning brightly vs calm an argument down....*I love old posts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *
> 
> I spent time last night happily reading a lot of old posts from a few people ...
> You have a nice day now


Hehe, Lesley made a funny!:teehee:


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## billooo2

re: 'giving newcomers a hard time'.........on one occasion, I plead, "guilty!!"

The 'occasion was when some newcomers told Boston Lesley that she did not belong on this forum!!!!

Yup!!!........you bet!!!!!.....I was not 'warm and friendly'

Bill.......and not apologetic..........:shrug:


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## Guest

billooo2 said:


> re: 'giving newcomers a hard time'.........on one occasion, I plead, "guilty!!"
> 
> The 'occasion was when some newcomers told Boston Lesley that she did not belong on this forum!!!!
> 
> Yup!!!........you bet!!!!!.....I was not 'warm and friendly'
> 
> Bill.......and not apologetic..........:shrug:


I think that was the year of my being called "not ----ty enough" to suit the newbies who came crashing through all full of estrogen...lol.. thanks again, Bill.

seriously? I cannot say the word which ryhmes with mutt + ty or putty...ah well...


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## wildcard

I'm not sure why, but this thread makes me crave some State Fair food.


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## WolfWalksSoftly

Shocked! Just shocked that this type of thing went on in here. And you will notice I had nothing to do with this probably because I was fighting The Reaper! . I do remember the witchy gal thing though.


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## AmericanStand

History is the best teacher. 
Something's never change. 
It's hard to teach a old dog new tricks 
Take your choice.


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## ceresone

I, too, am NOT looking, its just that I have more in common in here that elsewhere, and in all the years I've been on HT together, I've only had one person be really hateful, and I've tried hard to forget her name. Said basically, I used my age to be a hateful old woman.We all know age is no excuse--LOL. Really, people are usually how you perceive them, and I prefer to like most everyone


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## wildcard

I'm living proof that newbies are being picked on.


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## Tommyice

wildcard said:


> I'm living proof that newbies are being picked on.


I don't feel that you can completely claim "newbie" status based on your posts in ShyGal's old thread. You opened an old, dead thread to make a completely nasty remark and then later admitted to knowing who she is well enough to visit her Facebook page. Doesn't sound like someone just looking to join a forum and make friends.


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## TraderBob

wildcard said:


> I'm living proof that newbies are being picked on.


I'd saying your living proof of something else....


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## AmericanStand

Newbies are vetted that's all, expect to prove a bit of who you are.


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## Shrek

wildcard said:


> I'm living proof that newbies are being picked on.


 Your a low post count participant , however you have been registered as a member for a few years.

Perhaps if you were to post your own threads on current topics or current perspectives of old boneyard threads from the archives instead of simply bumping the old dug up bones, more folks will participate in discussion with you regarding the current environment of the topic.

Current discussion on new threads always give new or low post count posters the better opportunity to get to know the old timers and get to be known by the old timers than just bumping old bone threads.


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## WolfWalksSoftly

Let it sink back to the bottom.


----------



## wildcard

Shrek said:


> Your a low post count participant , however you have been registered as a member for a few years.
> 
> Perhaps if you were to post your own threads on current topics or current perspectives of old boneyard threads from the archives instead of simply bumping the old dug up bones, more folks will participate in discussion with you regarding the current environment of the topic.
> 
> Current discussion on new threads always give new or low post count posters the better opportunity to get to know the old timers and get to be known by the old timers than just bumping old bone threads.


I remembered Shygal from her snarky post when I first registered. She was like hall monitor and playground bully. I admit, when I came back I sought her post out. I'm was as sorry as I was relieved to see her go. Now I have to say Shrek, that I've been called a low sperm count donor but never a low count participant. That's a new one and another name to add to the long list of others that I keep tacked on the fridge door. Why didn't I post more back then, you wonder? I wanted to but girl was addicted to a farm game on fb and 4 people shared only one tablet back then. We also lived with girl's mom in Tacoma. That stench hole was really getting to me. Tacoma was awful too.


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## Echoesechos

Bret said:


> I am a married poster and ST is part of my minimum daily requirement of fun as I click on New Posts and sprint through the posts often not looking where they come from. My posts are always accepted for the shallow superficial way that they are intended. I once posted grinning that I had "gifts" and received a PM asking if I really thought that that I gifts. I advised, no, not in that sense...just that everything that I have or achieved was not of my own, but given to me, or helped to obtain by others. Another poster suggested that she thought that Oggie and I were the same person.  I have never said anything against cats, that I remember.
> 
> Near and far, we are the same person, each of us. When I am given a rough time, I take it as a compliment and ribbing. Thank you. I have been thrown out of "Ban the loser above you" more times than I know for some really frivolous reasons. The only place I have been given a hard time.


That was a fun post. I'd forgotten about that winter fun, thanks for making me laugh. Now you're banned once again, cause it took you so long to remind me.


----------



## Echoesechos

Well I remember reading about the SW, had no idea what in the world folks were talking about and for sure wasn't going to ask. I love this site. Do I read everything, no. Do I agree with what is written every time, no. Didn't signup for it to be that way. I appreciate everyone's opinions. 

Now as Bret mentioned before on our banning thread. I'm banning myself until further notice or in the next hour. Whichever comes first.


----------

