# Evil things unknowingly in Christian household??



## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

I was reading somewhere about how some stuff is of Satan without it really seeming that way. We are desensitised (sp?)to stuff. This article was talking about a variation of things but some that stuck out is some that I have in my household. 

Cabbage Patch Dolls
My Little Pony
Care Bears

And numerous other toys, mags, decorations, etc.

*Now I don't want to start a debate over this]. * I just want to know more information on what leads them to be evil. 

It said something about the Cabbage Patch dolls names where traced back to other gods and such, and therefore had demons with them.

Does anyone have more information on this??

Please no comments against my Christianity, I just want more info from fellow Christians if they have ever incountered this or not.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

I've never heard of that about the toys, but I know a lot of christians that bring back little budda dolls as souvenirs or other such stuff that clearly is a violation of the 10 commandments - you shall have no other gods before me and you shall not make any graven images....


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

I think that it's highly unlikely that inanimate objects (or non-sentient ones for that matter) can contain demons. You may disagree with the company that made a thing, how it was paid for, and so forth... but that doesn't put a demon in it.

Also, we're told that we'll be held to the truth that we are given... if we don't kow a thing is wrong (legitimately), then it isn't, for us.

R


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

barnyardfun said:


> I was reading somewhere about how some stuff is of Satan without it really seeming that way. We are desensitised (sp?)to stuff. This article was talking about a variation of things but some that stuck out is some that I have in my household.
> 
> Cabbage Patch Dolls
> My Little Pony
> ...


We did have a neighbor in the city who thought the Cabbage Patch dolls were evil but IMHO, she was a nutcase.


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## chickenmommy (Aug 24, 2004)

Cabbage Patch evil?!? OMG I just got one for my granddaughter because it looks JUST like her. I don't believe that for a minute. How could something that smells like baby powder and looks like that be evil? Puhleeze.


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## madness (Dec 6, 2006)

I think things like that are only evil is someone believes they are evil. Even if they were named after same pagan god, it doesn't make them "evil" - just makes them have a name with an interesting history.


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## diane (May 4, 2002)

"Now I don't want to start a debate over this]. I just want to know more information on what leads them to be evil."

O.K. Perhaps a good start would be you giving us your sourse of information because I certainly have never heard of any such thing that you are speaking of. Sounds like one of those he said that she said that he said that she said sort of urban legends that get posted on various websites to me.


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## CatsPaw (Jun 16, 2006)

Some of those things may very well be evil becuase.....someone told you they were and you beleived them.


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## holleegee (Mar 3, 2005)

I did a quick google and found this...

BOOK REVIEW
TURMOIL IN THE TOY BOX
By Phil Phillips
Turmoil in the Toy Box is a shocking expose` of the toy and cartoon industry. It reveals the hidden dangers found in many of the popular toys and cartoons such as He-Man and Masters of the Universe, Barbie, Rainbow Brite, G.I. Joe, Smurfs, Dungeons & Dragons, Care Bears, ThunderCats and E.T.; to name a few. This book unmasks the New Age, the occult, and the violent and Satanic influences that have invaded the once innocent toy box.
Phil Phillips seeks to make people aware of what is happening today in the toy and cartoon industry. He demonstrates how the occult, violence and heavy sexual overtones in this sort of entertainment are affecting our children. The book not only takes an in-depth look at the toy and cartoon industry, but also provides the proper tools needed to assist the reader in the assimilation of knowledge to help in the proper guidance of children, thereby avoiding the traps within the media. Although not every toy or cartoon series is covered, Turmoil in the Toy Box is the most thoroughly researched and balanced expose` available today in its field.
This book also explains the importance of play, and how toys can enhance or stunt a child's development. In addition, Turmoil in the Toy Box provides the reader with an alternative to today's popular toys.
-------------------------------------------
http://www.bible.com/overcoming-life/digest5.php#turmoil


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## Zipporah (Jul 30, 2006)

> O.K. Perhaps a good start would be you giving us your sourse of information because I certainly have never heard of any such thing that you are speaking of. Sounds like one of those he said that she said that he said that she said sort of urban legends that get posted on various websites to me


 Sounds that way to me too.

If you look hard enough for the devil you'll find him.


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## madness (Dec 6, 2006)

Ahh...finally remembered where I'd heard that too. Bill Gothard! In case you don't know who he is, check out what Personal Freedom Outreach has to say about him:

http://www.pfo.org/bgothard.htm

http://www.pfo.org/evol-fad.htm

PFO states these goals for themselves on their website:

Personal Freedom Outreach is a non-profit, non-denominational group with three goals: to educate Christians about the dangers and heretical doctrines of religious cults, to use the Gospel of Jesus Christ to reach members of those cults and to warn Christians of unbiblical teachings within the church itself.

So, I think it is safe to say that he was being EXTREME and that you shouldn't pay him any heed.

Hope that helps!


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## DonnaKay (Jul 23, 2006)

I still have my cabbage patch doll from when I was a kid...her name is Hedi Betty...sounds pretty domestic to me...although I'll admit I've never heard the name Hedi before.


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

_REGARDING CABBAGE KIDS PATCH DOLLS

The Gothard response also says, âRichard Fisher states: â...He [Gothard] taught that the highly popular Cabbage Patch KidsÂ® dolls were causing strange and destructive behavior in children that could only be alleviated when the dolls were removed or destroyed.ââ The team then ignores the report of a 1986 letter to PFO from the Gothard organization itself saying that the Cabbage Patch Kids were âa violation of the first Commandmentâ and a deterrent to children wanting to raise up godly children later in life. Perhaps this letter went out with Gothardâs full knowledge and approval and is now an embarrassment to him. 

The Gothard team did cite The Quarterly Journal critiqueâs statement that there was âno allowance made for other environmental and social factors in the homes.â It appears that letters and testimonials were accepted at face value without any investigation of backgrounds or long-term results. Many of Gothardâs teachings are based upon anecdotal stories and devoid of scriptural basis.

The team tries to conciliate by adding, âBill reported this information during the basic seminar and provided documentation to those who requested it. This produced many additional testimonies from parents who saw dramatic freedom as soon as the Cabbage Patch KidsÂ® dolls were removed. The parents were the ones giving the warnings, not Billâs teaching.â This is a useless nuance. If a preacher endorses testimonials from his pulpit, and those testimonials teach something, then the preacher is teaching it, if not directly then by endorsement and approval. 

Gothard has published even more claims about Cabbage Patch Kids since that first letter. His January 1996 Basic Care Newsletter from his Medical Training Institute defines the potential of the once-popular dolls. The publication stated that there are a core of midwives that are working against âSatanâs program from Genesis to Revelation to destroy the Godly seed.â This report endorsed by Gothard and his organization then describes âcleansing the home from evil influences.â The midwives searched the homes for Cabbage Patch Kids dolls and Troll dolls. They believed the destruction of these facilitated the births. Just having these items in the home retarded a speedy delivery, said the newsletter. Attributing this much power to a doll goes beyond the pale of reason and lapses into pagan superstition. 

Testimonials are a slippery foundation. Nearly every cult in the world bases its authority on its testimonials. That is why some of Gothardâs teachings have cultic leanings. However, this kind of numbers game can cut both ways and thousands of parents and children could be produced who saw no harmful effects from owning such a doll. Saying something is an idol does not make it so._


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## Snowdancer (Sep 23, 2002)

Ravenlost said:


> _REGARDING CABBAGE KIDS PATCH DOLLS
> 
> The Gothard response also says, âRichard Fisher states: â...He [Gothard] taught that the highly popular Cabbage Patch KidsÂ® dolls were causing strange and destructive behavior in children that could only be alleviated when the dolls were removed or destroyed.ââ The team then ignores the report of a 1986 letter to PFO from the Gothard organization itself saying that the Cabbage Patch Kids were âa violation of the first Commandmentâ and a deterrent to children wanting to raise up godly children later in life. Perhaps this letter went out with Gothardâs full knowledge and approval and is now an embarrassment to him.
> 
> ...


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

_Take for example Gothardâs âCabbage Patchâ flap. In 1986, he taught that the highly popular Cabbage Patch Dolls were causing strange and destructive behavior in children that could only be alleviated when the dolls were removed or destroyed. 

In a letter from his organization, his followers were told by representative Ginger Jones that to enter into a written agreement to love a doll was a violation of the First Commandment. *The threat as seen by Gothard was that by adopting a doll, children might not want to raise up their own godly children. *8 Children may âloveâ dolls as they do other toys but this does not mean they worship them. 

Testimonials were included with the above letter about the awful effects of the dolls with no allowance made for other environmental and social factors in the homes. The Cabbage Patch doll became a scapegoat._

 :shrug:


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## Zipporah (Jul 30, 2006)

> The threat as seen by Gothard was that by adopting a doll, children might not want to raise up their own godly children.


 :shrug: 
Doesn't the Bible teach to take in the fatherless or orphans?


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

You *do* realize that the days of the week are named for pagan gods, too, right?

Does that mean you are purposely HONOURING the old gods when you say "I'll meet you for prayer meeting on Wednesday"?

Oi. Surely we have other sorts of evil that are far more readily apparent and able to be dealt with much more directly.


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

DonnaKay said:


> I still have my cabbage patch doll from when I was a kid...her name is Hedi Betty...sounds pretty domestic to me...although I'll admit I've never heard the name Hedi before.



Hedi is Hebrew and has NOTHING to do with satanism or paganism best I can tell.

http://www.hebrewbabynames.com/item.cfm?itemid=32703


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## DonnaKay (Jul 23, 2006)

I trust that I've been given the gift of disernment. I don't need someone else to tell me what I can have and what I can't. Currently all my toy disgust is reserved for Bratz.

Donna


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## dragonfly65 (Sep 29, 2002)

I think it's more a desensitizing kids to certain things than actually demonic. He-man, for instance has a lot of magic and stuff in it. Same with smurfs, Dungeons and Dragons and others. My mother didn't let us have Barbies because of her "unrealistic body imade" - we did get to have Skipper dolls though. If kids see these things all the time and play with them, then they will be less sensitive to more extreme images of magic or violence or whatever. Kinda like what you see on TV today would have made people pass out from embarrassement when I was a kid, but no one thinks anything of half naked women in their underwear on the screen today. I do think some people go overboard on some of this stuff. People said that Pokemen was bad, but if you actually limit your kids involvement and keep an eye on what they are watching and how they're behaving it shouldn't be a problem. My kids loved Pokemon, but I didn't let them watch it all the time and we certainly didn't waste money on a bunch of toys and things that they were going to discard in a year or two when they were tired of it. I didn't let my kids watch certain things when they were little that they can watch now because they are old enough now to know what's real and what's pretend and they don't watch near as much as most kids. When I was in high school ET was supposed to be "demonic". I thought it was stupid, but certainly not demonic.


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

Wags said:


> I've never heard of that about the toys, but I know a lot of christians that bring back little budda dolls as souvenirs or other such stuff that clearly is a violation of the 10 commandments - you shall have no other gods before me and you shall not make any graven images....


  Owning a budda doll as a souvenir is not, in the slightest, against the 10 Commandments. One is hardly putting budda "before God" just because they buy a resin cast in a specific shape! "Owning" does NOT equal "worshiping". 

But, as for the OP. Some people can (and will) find something negative about everything that someone else finds positive. Some folks are just that way.

As a side: two dolls have creeped me out in my lifetime. "My Little Buddy"... only because they modeled Chucky after him. And my daughter had a Baby Talk from Italy. One night, sitting alone late at night watching a movie, that stupid sound-activated doll somehow "got activated". She was across the room in a chair, I heard her eyes click open, staring right at me she says, "Let's PLAY!".  It took me 20 mins to get up the nerve to cross the room and turn her power switch to OFF!


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Sigh... 

I Corinthians 8 and prayer. 



> 1 Corinthians 8:1-13 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. But if any man love God, the same is known of him. As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.



If a cabbage patch is "evil" to you, don't have one. I won't bring my daughters around if you feel they are evil.

Thank God for Christian Liberty.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

What about American Idol?


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## Peacock (Apr 12, 2006)

Good grief. You people!

When DH was a kid, his mom had a nightmare about those silly Troll dolls. When she woke up, she went through the house and tossed all of his sister's Trolls in the trash, saying they were evil, an opinion she held until she died 4 years ago.

This makes just about as much sense.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

dragonfly65 said:


> I think it's more a desensitizing kids to certain things than actually demonic. He-man, for instance has a lot of magic and stuff in it. Same with smurfs, Dungeons and Dragons and others. My mother didn't let us have Barbies because of her "unrealistic body imade" - we did get to have Skipper dolls though. If kids see these things all the time and play with them, then they will be less sensitive to more extreme images of magic or violence or whatever. Kinda like what you see on TV today would have made people pass out from embarrassement when I was a kid, but no one thinks anything of half naked women in their underwear on the screen today. I do think some people go overboard on some of this stuff. People said that Pokemen was bad, but if you actually limit your kids involvement and keep an eye on what they are watching and how they're behaving it shouldn't be a problem. My kids loved Pokemon, but I didn't let them watch it all the time and we certainly didn't waste money on a bunch of toys and things that they were going to discard in a year or two when they were tired of it. I didn't let my kids watch certain things when they were little that they can watch now because they are old enough now to know what's real and what's pretend and they don't watch near as much as most kids. When I was in high school ET was supposed to be "demonic". I thought it was stupid, but certainly not demonic.


Thank you! That was how I was kinda looking at it I just wanted other people's opinions AND I sure got them!  

Please don't think I am some kind of freak that is going to go around burning dolls. I was just asking a questions about something I read.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

diane said:


> "Now I don't want to start a debate over this]. I just want to know more information on what leads them to be evil."
> 
> O.K. Perhaps a good start would be you giving us your sourse of information because I certainly have never heard of any such thing that you are speaking of. Sounds like one of those he said that she said that he said that she said sort of urban legends that get posted on various websites to me.


I read it in the Virtuous Woman Vol I and II by Mrs. Paul Jett. She runs the newsletters from Bluebird Hill Farm. 

I love her news letters and have found all of her writtings very informative. That one just confused me.


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## FarmGoddess (Sep 21, 2006)

I always suspected He-Man of being rather light in the loafers. I had a Barbie. She bored me. The only good thing about the dumb doll was my Granny gave me scraps left over from sewing to make Barbie clothes with. I had more fun sewing the clothes than I ever did playing with the stupid doll. Wasn't much into dolls when I was kid, cause they always sorta scared me with their eyes and all that. Most cartoons didn't start out for kids. Watch some of the older Warner Brothers, Bullwinkle, and Looney Tunes shows if you don't believe me. Some of the social commentary is very subtle, but it's in there. 

I hated the GI Joe cartoons and never would let my son watch them. Or He-Man, or that idiotic Ninja Turtles. When he got older he discovered Japanese anime, but only after he was 18 and out of my house. Now that's a genre I wouldn't let near my kids, and all my kids have four legs and go baaaa.

I doubt if Cabbage Patch kids are demonic. I always thought they were a bit odd looking and that was about it. If you really want to get your panties in a wad over dolls, go after those Bratz things. Those are the most hideous looking excuse for a toy I've ever seen. About the only thing they're good for is teaching your pre-teen daughter how to talk trash and dress like a streetwalker.


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## Westwood (May 13, 2002)

Oggie said:


> What about American Idol?


You beat me to it! All this talk about inanimate dolls while American Idol at the very least has the sin of averice at it's very root! :baby04: 

Strain at a gnat and swallow a camel . . . . .


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

FarmGoddess said:


> If you really want to get your panties in a wad over dolls, go after those Bratz things. Those are the most hideous looking excuse for a toy I've ever seen. About the only thing they're good for is teaching your pre-teen daughter how to talk trash and dress like a streetwalker.


Bratz dolls scare me, and anger me. But did you hear awhile back, Mattel was going to turn that "band", the *****cat Dolls, into a brand of toys for girls age six and up?! Yes, let's make plastic strippers and buy them for our children... :flame:


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Let's all just grow up and take a deep breath.Think for yourselves.Evil is as evil does.Let love be in your heart and none but Christ may enter.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

The original post put me in mind of something I read on Dick Staub's Culture Watch site (www.dickstaub.com). The article is about being Christian in a post-Christian world; it starts out with the fantasy of Pokemon characters and ends up with a great challenge to work on our discernment.

An excerpt from the article:
http://www.dickstaub.com/culturewatch.php?record_id=1071

"As a long-time fan of Christian fantasy books, such as those written by C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien, I have been interested in the controversy over the Harry Potter series by J.K.Rowling. No matter what the verdict on the books, my personal conclusion has been that many in the Christian community need a deeper understanding of literary criticism. Fantasy books deal with a fantasy world â a world with its own rules. They are not to be confused with real life. We need to analyze the themes in the story, the underlying belief system. Does good triumph over evil? Do the characters become better people from their struggles? Magic in a fantasy story is not to be equated with the real-life practice of the occult. However, I do believe those who have had a deep involvement with the occult prior to receiving Christ should indeed avoid stories, movies and situations that remind them of their former life."

I encourage everyone to subscribe to Dick Staub's log. It's insightful, reverent, and very realistic.

Pony!


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## MorrisonCorner (Jul 27, 2004)

EasyDay said:


> <snip>And my daughter had a Baby Talk from Italy. One night, sitting alone late at night watching a movie, that stupid sound-activated doll somehow "got activated". She was across the room in a chair, I heard her eyes click open, staring right at me she says, "Let's PLAY!".  It took me 20 mins to get up the nerve to cross the room and turn her power switch to OFF!


Ok, that just creeped me out and I wasn't even there. Dolls should not pop their eyes open and make demands... this is most un-doll-like!


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## Hip_Shot_Hanna (Apr 2, 2005)

EasyDay said:


> And my daughter had a Baby Talk from Italy. One night, sitting alone late at night watching a movie, that stupid sound-activated doll somehow "got activated". She was across the room in a chair, I heard her eyes click open, staring right at me she says, "Let's PLAY!".  It took me 20 mins to get up the nerve to cross the room and turn her power switch to OFF!


lol.. I'm wondering WHAT movie you were watching


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

And your on a computer??? If your goiong to damn the dolls, to save the kids, better follow scripture, and (Go ye and do likewise) with the puter


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

FarmBoyBill said:


> And your on a computer??? If your goiong to damn the dolls, to save the kids, better follow scripture, and (Go ye and do likewise) with the puter


What?


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Good gosh, somebody's been watching too many "Chucky" movies.


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## FiddleKat (Oct 22, 2004)

EasyDay
As a side: two dolls have creeped me out in my lifetime. "My Little Buddy"... only because they modeled Chucky after him. And my daughter had a Baby Talk from Italy. One night said:


> EasyDay are you sure someone didn't slip you a funny.....oh never mind. I'll leave it alone.
> 
> Yea....I think that would definitly freak me out too! DH and I were in an antique store the other day and they had two of those "My Little Buddy" dolls for sale. CREEPY!
> 
> As for the toy/evil thing....DD has a pile of My Little Ponies and I can't see how they could be named after gods. Cornflower, Sunshine.


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## country_wife (Sep 24, 2004)

FarmGoddess said:


> If you really want to get your panties in a wad over dolls, go after those Bratz things. Those are the most hideous looking excuse for a toy I've ever seen. About the only thing they're good for is teaching your pre-teen daughter how to talk trash and dress like a streetwalker.


Anyone seen those "My Bling Bling" Bratz? I may not have the name exactly right..I saw them for the first time at Toys R Us. I'd never even heard of them until then. My oldest DD is too old for Barbies, and the youngest DD thinks Bratz dolls are tacky. My girls call them 'ghetto barbies'.


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## mutthouse (Mar 15, 2006)

This makes me think of a story my grandma told me. When she was small (she was born in 1903), her family was extremely poor, and she and her 4 siblings had basically no toys. A neighbor gave the girls several old dolls that her own children had outgrown, and those girls were delighted. 

Then some aunts came over, they said to my great-grandma, "You let your children play with IDOLS??" Those dolls disappeared before gram and her sisters could turn around, and they were heartbroken.


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## largentdepoche (Dec 9, 2005)

mutthouse said:


> This makes me think of a story my grandma told me. When she was small (she was born in 1903), her family was extremely poor, and she and her 4 siblings had basically no toys. A neighbor gave the girls several old dolls that her own children had outgrown, and those girls were delighted.
> 
> Then some aunts came over, they said to my great-grandma, "You let your children play with IDOLS??" Those dolls disappeared before gram and her sisters could turn around, and they were heartbroken.


That is a sad story 

Even Amish little girls play with faceless dolls, and they're 10000% more religious than mainstream Christianity.

I think some people do alittle overkill when it comes to stuff like that.

Kat


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## Wilbursmommy (Feb 27, 2003)

I loathe those Bratz dolls, too. Look like aliens! (At least what I think aliens would look like!)

When my girls were little, my mil gave my oldest daughter a baby doll that giggled and then said, "Mama", and then giggled some more. Freaked my dd out. DD had a smile frozen on her face and said," Is it gonna stop"? Oldest dd gave the doll to youngest dd, who slept with it. Now the doll did all that when you pressed its belly. And youngest dd kept rolling over on it. In the middle of the night I would be woken by giggling. When I heard "Mama" in that cutesy voice, I knew it was the doll. Well, one night dd rolled over on the doll and it went "HA, HA, HA! MAAAW,MAAAW! HA, HA, HA"!
The voice was real deep and scary. The batteries were dying! But neither DH or me wanted to go into that bedroom to retrieve the doll! Told youngest dd about it the next morning and told her we should throw the doll away since there was no way to replace the batteries. She thought it was funny and chased her little brothers around the house with that doll! 

Now she wonders why they enjoy trying to make her throw up!(she's having morning sickness) On the way home from church Sunday, they were describing the roadkill they saw in detail to her. She hollered, "MOM"! I just said, "paybacks"!


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## diane (May 4, 2002)

Thank you for sharing your sources of this. I always say, to each his (or her) own. I have my own opinions of the sources quoted but I find no need to share them. By all means, if you are finding evil in your toy boxes, than you need to remove it. Just don't try and remove it from mine. As Bob said, thank goodness for Christian Liberty!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## FarmGoddess (Sep 21, 2006)

Ya'll remember that doll from a few years back that could chew? I don't remember the name of the thing, but it was responsible for several nasty 'bites' before it was recalled. Now that thing was scary!


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> Let love be in your heart and none but Christ may enter.


Exactly!

Mu kids have had Barbies, Pokemon, they read Harry Potter & Narnia, & have some Cabbage Patch dolls. Unless you see your child actively practicing witchcraft after reading the books or playing with certain things, I think you'll be OK. My kids know fantasy from reality. They have never once turned away from God after reading the books or watching certain movies or playing with certain toys. Man, let kids be kids. I wish people would stop trying to make things out to be something they aren't. They are toys for crying out loud! 

OK, I feel better now.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Wendy said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Mu kids have had Barbies, Pokemon, they read Harry Potter & Narnia, & have some Cabbage Patch dolls. Unless you see your child actively practicing witchcraft after reading the books or playing with certain things, I think you'll be OK. My kids know fantasy from reality. They have never once turned away from God after reading the books or watching certain movies or playing with certain toys. Man, let kids be kids. I wish people would stop trying to make things out to be something they aren't. They are toys for crying out loud!
> 
> OK, I feel better now.



Actually, when our DD was 15, we discovered that she was actively involved in occult practices in our house. It was a scary time for us, as she was doing many other things as well. We removed all the offending material (and some of it was very evil), prayed the presence of Jesus in her room, and got counseling for the lot of us.

She's doing much better 5 years on, but it was a rough road for a while there. Nothing like finding abomination under your own roof.

Around here, we definitely know the difference between occult and fantasy. We also know in Whom to place our trust when confronted with evil.

Pony!


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## TSYORK (Mar 16, 2006)

I knew this woman one time that used to the the "devils" out of a "devils food" duncan hines cake mix...... is that not absurd. 

Please strain a gnat and swallow a camel!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

TSYork
the last church I went to, for covered dinners the ladies brought "spiced eggs" instead of "deviled eggs"..


Angie


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## hrslvrtrailridr (Jan 9, 2007)

Why don't you pray about it and ask GOD to reveal to you the answer. Ask Him questions, be particular about it. Wait upon an answer. Ask for a conformation on the answer.
The world is very saturated with evil but we must still live in it as Jesus did, and He overcame it! May you do likewise.


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## tinetine'sgoat (Aug 4, 2005)

Ok, I gotta make a confession. When I was in Junior High we had a slightly odd girl in our class. Always telling us why we were going to he** for having dolls, watching certain cartoons (smurfs were demons) etc... Well we got tired of it so one day I brought my smurfette doll and we put it in her locker so it would fall out at her when she opened it. We thought it was hilarious, her... not so much. We all had sworn ourselves to secrecy, but I was deeply saddened at the loss of my smurfette doll, it was confiscated and I couldn't figure out how to get it back without admitting wrongdoing.  

But back to the subject I go by the avoiding the appearance of evil in the Bible. We don't Harry Potter anymore, cause my dd's were quite fascinated with the idea of witchcraft and I just didn't care much for that.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

My folks believed that way. A *short* list:

Rabbits (Easter Bunny)
Anything Christmas.
Hearts (pagan idolatrous symbol)
Braids down back of head (too much like idolatrous Chinese people)
Cabbage Patch Kids (no idea why)
Pegasus and unicorns (Greek Mythology)
Gnomes, dragons, any fictional creature (magic, evil, satanic!)
Five pointed stars of any type (pentagrams)
Barcodes (mark of the beast)
Clowns 

There's more, but seriously, it was so extreme that I can't even remember anymore. Basically, once they were through purging out toys and clothes of evil, we had very little left. Some of our most favorite old cherished baby toys were thrown out. 

I know of another family that got rid of all their kid's stuffed animals and dolls...graven images. :Bawling:


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## Snowdancer (Sep 23, 2002)

chamoisee said:


> My folks believed that way. A *short* list:
> 
> Five pointed stars of any type (pentagrams)
> 
> ...



It's a good thing your folks didn't live in TX. The TX Rangers badge definitely looks like a pentagram.


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## Rowenna7 (Dec 22, 2005)

Wilbursmommy said:


> When my girls were little, my mil gave my oldest daughter a baby doll that giggled and then said, "Mama", and then giggled some more. Freaked my dd out. DD had a smile frozen on her face and said," Is it gonna stop"? Oldest dd gave the doll to youngest dd, who slept with it. Now the doll did all that when you pressed its belly. And youngest dd kept rolling over on it. In the middle of the night I would be woken by giggling. When I heard "Mama" in that cutesy voice, I knew it was the doll. Well, one night dd rolled over on the doll and it went "HA, HA, HA! MAAAW,MAAAW! HA, HA, HA"!
> The voice was real deep and scary. The batteries were dying! But neither DH or me wanted to go into that bedroom to retrieve the doll! Told youngest dd about it the next morning and told her we should throw the doll away since there was no way to replace the batteries. She thought it was funny and chased her little brothers around the house with that doll!


That is too ironic...my mother has that exact same doll at her place. She had bought it for my baby sister years ago, and as the batteries started dying the doll's laughter slowed down and got very deep and scary just like you described and it sounded more and more insane. The crazy thing is, the batteries have been dying for 10 years and that doll just keeps on laughing that deranged laugh whenever anyone messes with it. We tried to get my DH to take the doll and set it off when trick-or-treaters came by for Halloween but he wouldn't do it.


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## Kstornado11 (Mar 17, 2006)

This reminds me of those Furby toys, when there was a story going around that the government inplanted chips in them to spy on people.  They WERE a little spooky, especially when they'd start talking in the middle of the night in the dark!! :help:


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## Slev (Nov 29, 2003)

I'm not even going to waist my time......


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Something about her Mrs. Beasley doll scared my daughter when she was younger. She made me burn it.

She is 30 now and I found one at a garage sale and told her I bought her one since she was now grown. 

She told me to 'burn it too'! Never knew exactly what it was - but it worked.

Remember the old TV show - Twilight Zone, I think - about 'I'm Talking Tina and I don't like you."

This is interesting and somewhere packed away I have a copy of 'Turmoil in teh Toybox'. I buy books by the box sometimes and am always amazed at what I find I have.


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## Buffy in Dallas (May 10, 2002)

>It said something about the Cabbage Patch dolls names where traced back to other gods and such, and therefore had demons with them.<

My Grand Daughters name is Freya Kali. Does that mean she possessed? :TFH: 

My Daughters are Witches. :wizard: 

BOO! Scared yet?


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

hrslvrtrailridr said:


> Why don't you pray about it and ask GOD to reveal to you the answer. Ask Him questions, be particular about it. Wait upon an answer. Ask for a conformation on the answer.
> The world is very saturated with evil but we must still live in it as Jesus did, and He overcame it! May you do likewise.


Don'tcha know it's not popular to actually ask God things with the idea He might answer. People seem to think that changed somewhere along the line - perhaps about the time they aren't able to hear God, they assume it is because He doesn't speak. After all the alternative is that they are deaf to Him and few people are willing to believe that and seek to repent and ask Him to truly speak to them. 

Jesus overcomes the world today, He is the only one that can. Either He will overcome it in His people, or they aren't His people. 

There is a huge list of things that I no longer want to partake of because God is not in them. I want to be where He is, that is where life is and joy and love and peace. He is my beloved, whom I do not want to offend. I'm not afraid that I will accidentally do something evil, because God would stop me from doing it, but I don't want to be involved in evil things. I see many things we are accustomed to thinking are "good" really aren't, they come out of men and not God. 

I'm not so worried about dolls as I am about ideas. What I see being taught in this society is to sell our daughters as whores and our sons as --------s. Bothers me a lot more than Cabbage Patch dolls. Look at any "Grade School" and you will see children dressed to sell their bodies. Look at any "High School" and you will see the results of that and God certainly isn't in that. God isn't in dating either - does Jesus "date" His Bride? Does He call us to go mess around with Him? Or is He serious about calling a people that will give up this world to form a deep and lasting union of love with Him? If our relationship with Jesus is to be the very picture of true marriage, I'll tell you, He doesn't date. 

Well, its 2:25 am and I see I'd rave all night, so I guess I'd better just quit and get some sleep.


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

FarmGoddess, do you mean the "Baby Alive" doll? You had to feed it a pureed-type "baby food", and it would "poo" it out into the diaper. I had one of those. Once I stuck my finger in its mouth as it was chewing and it bit down. That was so creepy that I never played with it again. I also recall a horror movie with one of them (or a very similar doll) in it and it had something to do with slime or some other "mushy" stuff squishing out of it. I still get the creeps thinking about that.

And I'm sorry, but there is nothing creepier than a clown. I absolutely cannot have them in my house. If I see someone dressed up as one in a parade, I step back so they don't touch me. I even hate making eye contact with them. LOL You ever see that Stephen King movie "IT"? That is how I see _all_ clowns.

So how many of those that have purged their house of all Satanic toys still take their kids out for Halloween?


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## suzfromWi (Jun 1, 2002)

Slev said:


> I'm not even going to waist my time......


Me either!!!!!!Sheesh!


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## Chuck (Oct 27, 2003)

Well, if you're going to throw out your cabbage patch kids, just make sure they're duct taped to your television.


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## Jillis (Sep 11, 2005)

Chuck said:


> Well, if you're going to throw out your cabbage patch kids, just make sure they're duct taped to your television.



Good one, Chuck!


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

EasyDay said:


> Owning a budda doll as a souvenir is not, in the slightest, against the 10 Commandments. One is hardly putting budda "before God" just because they buy a resin cast in a specific shape! "Owning" does NOT equal "worshiping".


For Pete's sake, Buddha is not a god, said so himself. Some splinter Buddhist groups have made him into a sort of demi-god, but then some Christian groups have perverted whats said in their Bible too. The Buddha statues and images are not to worship Buddha but to remind followers of his recommendation of the 8 steps to enlightenment. Buddhists believe you are literally reborn over and over until you get it right. The Buddha simply offered a plan to cut down on number of rebirths necessary to this goal. Unlike Christians and Muslims and some others, Buddhists have no short cut to enlightenment by intervention of some diety.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

By the way I'd watch out for that demonic looking rabbit in the current HT logo..... With only half a face, it cant be very godly......


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## MelissaW (Jun 18, 2003)

DixyDoodle said:


> FarmGoddess, do you mean the "Baby Alive" doll? You had to feed it a pureed-type "baby food", and it would "poo" it out into the diaper. I had one of those. Once I stuck my finger in its mouth as it was chewing and it bit down. That was so creepy that I never played with it again. I also recall a horror movie with one of them (or a very similar doll) in it and it had something to do with slime or some other "mushy" stuff squishing out of it. I still get the creeps thinking about that.
> 
> And I'm sorry, but there is nothing creepier than a clown. I absolutely cannot have them in my house. If I see someone dressed up as one in a parade, I step back so they don't touch me. I even hate making eye contact with them. LOL You ever see that Stephen King movie "IT"? That is how I see _all_ clowns.
> 
> So how many of those that have purged their house of all Satanic toys still take their kids out for Halloween?


I had that doll too. Dad called her "baby fish face" because of the thing her mouth did. Once I fed her the baby food mush she certainly SMELLED evil. I think her insides got moldy. I'm with you on the clown thing. I'm not sure they qualify as evil, but repellant and nightmarish, definately!


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## HeavenHelpMe (Apr 28, 2006)

'Nuff said about evil clowns!

This guy made me a card-carrying member of the "Clowns are Freaky-Scary" club.

Kudos to Spielberg for changing society's view of something so innocent.


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## TNnative (May 23, 2004)

mutthouse said:


> This makes me think of a story my grandma told me. When she was small (she was born in 1903), her family was extremely poor, and she and her 4 siblings had basically no toys. A neighbor gave the girls several old dolls that her own children had outgrown, and those girls were delighted.
> 
> Then some aunts came over, they said to my great-grandma, "You let your children play with IDOLS??" Those dolls disappeared before gram and her sisters could turn around, and they were heartbroken.


That is SO sad!


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## Faustus (Jan 11, 2007)

> For Pete's sake, Buddha is not a god, said so himself. Some splinter Buddhist groups have made him into a sort of demi-god, but then some Christian groups have perverted whats said in their Bible too. The Buddha statues and images are not to worship Buddha but to remind followers of his recommendation of the 8 steps to enlightenment.


Yup, what he said. Buddha never claimed to be a deity, and people who are worshiping Buddha statues aren't following the tenets of their own religion. Things that you buy at, say, a Shinto shrine could get a little sketchier, because of the way they view their deities, but even then, as long as you're not actively worshiping it, I think it's a gray area at best. I'm of the Jewish persuasion, myself, so this kind of thing is still something of an issue, but from what I've read, rabbinic opinions are mixed. If you don't hold any faith in the object you've bought, then you're not likely to be worshiping it. But then, I don't really believe that inanimate objects can have demons associated with them, either.

And clowns most definitely creep me out. I'm skipping a party tonight because the theme is "the circus" and everyone's being encouraged to dress up as clowns. Thanks, but no thanks! On the creepy doll front, I used to have a Teddy Ruxpin. I didn't find it creepy at all, and would listen to him in bed, but in retrospect, it was probably pretty freaky to anyone who passed by my room, some teddy bear talking into the darkness.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Chuck said:


> Well, if you're going to throw out your cabbage patch kids, just make sure they're duct taped to your television.


Or the computer!


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

FiddleKat said:


> EasyDay are you sure someone didn't slip you a funny.....oh never mind. I'll leave it alone.
> 
> Yea....I think that would definitly freak me out too! DH and I were in an antique store the other day and they had two of those "My Little Buddy" dolls for sale. CREEPY!
> 
> As for the toy/evil thing....DD has a pile of My Little Ponies and I can't see how they could be named after gods. Cornflower, Sunshine.


I don't usually get spooked very easily. I think what freaked me out about this doll is I thought she was turned off. When there was no noise or movement for like 5 mins, she would go into "sleep mode"... she'd say, "Night night" and close her eyes. Ingenious way of conserving her batteries.

Well, thinking she was turned all the way off, she hadn't been activated for a couple of hours. It was late, the room was dark except for the TV on. I'm absorbed in the movie. I guess a flash of light or sound from the TV activated her.

My sane mind knew exactly what happened. But, having loved scary movies and Twilight Zone all my life, there was that little brain cell that put an image in my head of walking over to turn her off and her LEAPING out of that chair and sinking her teeth in my throat! So... 20 minutes later I scolded myself for being so ridiculous... walked over and flipped her switch. We didn't get rid of her. I just made sure that once DD was in bed, DDoll was in the OFF position!


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## Pink_Carnation (Apr 21, 2006)

Evil is usually in how we use the "toy". It comes from us not the other way around. There would be some exceptions...a Freddie Kruger (sp?) doll complete with victims.

Check out the stuff the people are talking about and make your own decision. It might vary because of your belief or because they are just wrong about the history.

My DH once was listening to this guy go on about how evil rock music is...one example was the song "Hell is for Children" obviously a horrible song...for those who had heard it though they knew it was about how terrible child abuse is.


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## FiddleKat (Oct 22, 2004)

DixyDoodle said:


> FarmGoddess, do you mean the "Baby Alive" doll? You had to feed it a pureed-type "baby food", and it would "poo" it out into the diaper. I had one of those. Once I stuck my finger in its mouth as it was chewing and it bit down. That was so creepy that I never played with it again. I also recall a horror movie with one of them (or a very similar doll) in it and it had something to do with slime or some other "mushy" stuff squishing out of it. I still get the creeps thinking about that.
> 
> And I'm sorry, but there is nothing creepier than a clown. I absolutely cannot have them in my house. If I see someone dressed up as one in a parade, I step back so they don't touch me. I even hate making eye contact with them. LOL You ever see that Stephen King movie "IT"? That is how I see _all_ clowns.
> 
> So how many of those that have purged their house of all Satanic toys still take their kids out for Halloween?


I think I know what movie your talking about. I faintly remember it. It took place on an airplane that was supposedly haunted. But I remember that scene as well.

My cousin Janice had that Baby Alive doll, and this is no joke. But she cut the hair on the doll, and it grew back!!! So freaked out by it she threw it away.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

I had a pastor that spent one Sunday railing on the congregation about having things like budda or Hindu figurines in the house. He went to great lengths on this subject about how evil it was to have "false gods" on display in ones' home.

A few weeks later, Pastor's wife decorated the basement for the Valentine's party - and hung up several cutouts of Cupid. My DH pulled them down and handed them to the Pastor, said he didn't think it was right to have pictures of a pagan god in "God's house". My DH has always had a problem with hypocrites.

C


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## mama2littleman (Nov 8, 2004)

Buffy in Dallas said:


> My Grand Daughters name is Freya Kali. Does that mean she possessed? :TFH:
> 
> My Daughters are Witches. :wizard:
> 
> BOO! Scared yet?



I don't know about possessed. but with a name like that ... good luck on those teenage years. She has some pretty interesting role models.

Nikki


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## FiddleKat (Oct 22, 2004)

Okay I just thought of this other movie. And it was a triology. Karen Black was in it, and she had a voodoo doll that came alive and tried killing her.
Anyone remember that movie?


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

yup remember it.

Trilogy of Terror. http://www.filmmonthly.com/Horror/Articles/Trilogy/Trilogy.html


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## Kstornado11 (Mar 17, 2006)

Here's some for ya'll...
Robert The Haunted Doll...
http://www.hauntedamericatours.com/hauntedfurniture/haunteddoll/robert/index.php
more Haunted Dolls...
http://www.hauntedamericatours.com/ghostphotos/haunteddolls/
:help:


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## momofmany (Feb 23, 2005)

DonnaKay said:


> I trust that I've been given the gift of disernment. I don't need someone else to tell me what I can have and what I can't. Currently all my toy disgust is reserved for Bratz.
> 
> Donna


AMEN TO THAT!


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## hrslvrtrailridr (Jan 9, 2007)

I think I'm gonna have nightmares tonight!


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## FiddleKat (Oct 22, 2004)

Kstornado11 said:


> Here's some for ya'll...
> Robert The Haunted Doll...
> http://www.hauntedamericatours.com/hauntedfurniture/haunteddoll/robert/index.php
> more Haunted Dolls...
> ...


Yup...heard the story of Robert the Haunted Doll.

hrslvrtrlrdr just keep a night light on!!


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## insocal (May 15, 2005)

I'd be more worried about the evil inherent in the garment industry. They produce far too many clothes made of the biblically forbidden fabric blends for my comfort.

Demons reside in every article of cotton/poly blend out there.


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## COUNTRY WISHES (Nov 27, 2004)

I don't quite understand how a Cabbage Patch Doll, which is a baby doll with adoption papers is evil? Baby dolls are something that many little girls enjoy because they have a nuturing, motherly instinct and the dolls help them express that long before it is time for them to mother their own children. Those dolls also promote adoption which is a good thing so that children learn that it is alright to bring a child into your family who would otherwise not have a home and brign them up as one of your own. 

If you feel strongly about this and cannot make up your mind on it, pray about it and see what kind of direction you are led in. You also might try talking about this with a Pastor, he or she may be able to give you some guidence.


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## Yoop (Dec 7, 2006)

The internet is evil. Better sell your computer.


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## DKWunlimited (Sep 11, 2006)

Faustus said:


> Yup, what he said. Buddha never claimed to be a deity, and people who are worshiping Buddha statues aren't following the tenets of their own religion. Things that you buy at, say, a Shinto shrine could get a little sketchier, because of the way they view their deities, but even then, as long as you're not actively worshiping it, I think it's a gray area at best. I'm of the Jewish persuasion, myself, so this kind of thing is still something of an issue, but from what I've read, rabbinic opinions are mixed. If you don't hold any faith in the object you've bought, then you're not likely to be worshiping it. But then, I don't really believe that inanimate objects can have demons associated with them, either.
> 
> .


If you want to get down to it, anything could be put on that God like pedastal. Women to live to shop and must have 100 pairs of shoes? Men who can't miss the big game? The need to have a new car or fancy bells and whistles? Anything that could hold higher importance than God in your life.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

ZealYouthGuy said:


> yup remember it.
> 
> Trilogy of Terror. http://www.filmmonthly.com/Horror/Articles/Trilogy/Trilogy.html



Oh, maaaaaaaaaaan! Is that the one with that little guy with the spear... "AI AI AI AI AI!"??

I seem to remember some house sort of taking over Karen Black's personality, too... Silver on the table, insisting that her kids use the fine stuff...?

Either way, now that I'm thinking about those old scary movies, it looks like Pony is sleeping with the lights on tonight...  

Pony!


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## a1cowmilker (Jun 14, 2005)

Twenty years ago we were encouraged to get rid of "bad toys". I cannot tell you why but it seemed to be a good thing to do at the time. (star wars toys and care bears were the toys). We also wouldn't let our kids play with obviously demonic toys. It was a good thing for us. Today we are more relaxed about things and this is working out for us as well. Please don't bring Bill Gothard into any argument concerning anything spiritual, even if you beleive absolutely everything he says to be true, like the article says, he refuses to back anything he says up with scripture or logic. Meaning, it is impossible to debate anything he says because he basically says "I am right, if you don't agree with me then you are wrong and will most likely go to H---."

Honestly, he has some good points, but he is not without error.

And, yep, I certainly do know what I am talking about cause I went to the seminars (advanced as well  ) and the church I attended was Bill Gothard to the enth degree. Somebody give me a t-shirt


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

DKWunlimited said:


> If you want to get down to it, anything could be put on that God like pedastal. Women to live to shop and must have 100 pairs of shoes? Men who can't miss the big game? The need to have a new car or fancy bells and whistles? Anything that could hold higher importance than God in your life.


Absolutely, those things can be idols. So can a good job, a career, a wife, a husband, TV, a computer, a lifestyle. Any of those things and many more can become "gods" or idols to us and God does not like that at all. He is holy, separate and above all those things and wants us to remember that.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

OH for Pete's Sake~! :help:


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

FiddleKat said:


> Yup...heard the story of Robert the Haunted Doll.
> 
> hrslvrtrlrdr just keep a night light on!!


(Hair standing on end) 

GAH!
My husband and I stayed in that house in the turret room suite 17 years ago. No one ever said anything about haunted! It's a beautiful place and luckily I don;t remember any spectral hosts.


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## Faustus (Jan 11, 2007)

DKWunlimited said:


> If you want to get down to it, anything could be put on that God like pedastal. Women to live to shop and must have 100 pairs of shoes? Men who can't miss the big game? The need to have a new car or fancy bells and whistles? Anything that could hold higher importance than God in your life.


Yes, but that's actually... y'know. Hard. It's much easier to just refrain from buying Buddha figurines or pictures of Brahma. How one gets around the fact that the days of the week are named after pagan gods, I'm not quite sure, but obviously, that's just a technicality. G-d couldn't _possibly_ have intended for anyone to miss the big game! And if G-d didn't want me to have a Hummer, He wouldn't have put them here.

Ahem.

But seriously, of all the things that I might or might not end up putting before G-d, a little Buddha statue is not even close to the top of that list. I suspect that goes for most people who buy the things as a souvenir in Chinatown or wherever, especially considering that the adherents of Buddha's own religion aren't generally praying to his statue. Or to him, for that matter.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

GrannyCarol said:


> Absolutely, those things can be idols. So can a good job, a career, a wife, a husband, TV, a computer, a lifestyle. Any of those things and many more can become "gods" or idols to us and God does not like that at all. He is holy, separate and above all those things and wants us to remember that.



Amen!

Pony!


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## Buffy in Dallas (May 10, 2002)

mama2littleman said:


> I don't know about possessed. but with a name like that ... good luck on those teenage years. She has some pretty interesting role models.
> 
> Nikki


Heck, we don't have to wait for the teenage years! Shes a little spitfire at 18 months! Shes sitting in my den right now playing "Legend of Zelda" on her Gameboy. She's winning too!

Our house is what you would call Diverse. I'm pagan, daughters witches, 2 sons agnostic, one son christian(cant win them all), hubbys Fundy Christian, my sister and her hubby are Astru. Always something interesting going on here!!!


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## dnw826 (Jan 9, 2007)

HeavenHelpMe said:


> 'Nuff said about evil clowns!
> 
> This guy made me a card-carrying member of the "Clowns are Freaky-Scary" club.
> 
> Kudos to Spielberg for changing society's view of something so innocent.


Thanks for that. It was a good laugh!! (BTW I am terrified of clowns)


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## kevyb (Nov 15, 2006)

this thread has been giving me some good giggles!!

you clown haters ought to like this------my oldest son was afraid of clowns, also. his sister was given a musical clown when she was pretty young. when you wound it up, it played music and it's head moved---after a few years the mechanism loosened, and when you wound it up the head would spin.
christine


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

insocal said:


> I'd be more worried about the evil inherent in the garment industry. They produce far too many clothes made of the biblically forbidden fabric blends for my comfort.
> 
> Demons reside in every article of cotton/poly blend out there.


You know I believe that. They truly do burn and itch and try sleeping on a cotton/poly sheet - yeah - demonic.


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

> I'm skipping a party tonight because the theme is "the circus" and everyone's being encouraged to dress up as clowns.


Ug, the person who thought of that is obviously a sadist. :nono: Stay far, far away! Wouldn't that be horrible, to walk into a room full of clowns. *shiver*

On the other hand, I know someone who is afraid of frogs.  She will not walk outdoors at night if it means she must touch any grass with her shoes; just the thought of stepping on a frog makes her cry (she's in her late 30's).

DD


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## Faustus (Jan 11, 2007)

> Ug, the person who thought of that is obviously a sadist. Stay far, far away! Wouldn't that be horrible, to walk into a room full of clowns. *shiver*


Yeah, that was the general consensus, was that it was a horrible theme. I'm not personally phobic about clowns or anything, but there are a lot of people who are. What was worse was that they changed the theme from EMTs and 911, which was a cool idea! Very annoying.

My grandmother was phobic about snakes- you couldn't even talk about them in front of her, or she'd freak out. I guess she never saw _Indiana Jones and the Lost Ark_.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Still say to watch out for Peter Cottontail here:










He eats clowns for breakfast.....


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## patnewmex (Aug 11, 2006)

Evil exists only in people's minds. IMHO. Do you think Christ created evil things?


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

The TV and the internet could probably qualify as the most evil of things in a house.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

susieM said:


> The TV and the internet could probably qualify as the most evil of things in a house.



I would say that the TV and 'Net are the window to many things, good and evil, and if you are not sufficiently discriminating, you can let all sorts of evil into your family with them!

Hmm... Thinking about what it would take to get me to drop the 'Net...  

Pony!


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

ZealYouthGuy said:


> Sigh...
> 
> I Corinthians 8 and prayer.
> 
> ...


You beat me to it.

To me, a "Hillary" doll would be demonic!  :baby04:


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Boleyz said:


> You beat me to it.


No one likes the biblical answers... it's more fun to debate.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

DonnaKay said:


> I trust that I've been given the gift of disernment. I don't need someone else to tell me what I can have and what I can't. Currently all my toy disgust is reserved for Bratz.
> 
> Donna


Oh I HATE thost stupid things.


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## Zipporah (Jul 30, 2006)

> To me, a "Hillary" doll would be demonic!


 :rotfl: 



> The TV and the internet could probably qualify as the most evil of things in a house


 ditto


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## Westwood (May 13, 2002)

To me, a "Hillary" doll would be demonic! 

To many of us a comment like that reeks of evil. Where none was before. Makes one wonder at the purpose of the post.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Westwood said:


> To me, a "Hillary" doll would be demonic!
> 
> To many of us a comment like that reeks of evil. Where none was before. Makes one wonder at the purpose of the post.


My Comment "Reeks of evil"? Are you serious? Do you have NO sense of humor?

Are you "Scolding" me for making a light-hearted jab at Hillary?

I am so happy that I am the Boleyz and no one else... :baby04: :baby04:


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## Westwood (May 13, 2002)

Dude, from what many of us have observed, no. There is no light hearted comment from you, ever, without a purpose. The point being that you, in your infinite wisdom know better than anyone else what we're supposed to believe or do, and we must agree exactly with what you say or do or we're not only wrong, but stupid for disagreeing with you to start with. 

As Sandra has pointed out before, it gets tiring. For me, it tires my spirit. 

Rant over.


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## Carrie C (Apr 7, 2005)

Macybaby said:


> I had a pastor that spent one Sunday railing on the congregation about having things like budda or Hindu figurines in the house. He went to great lengths on this subject about how evil it was to have "false gods" on display in ones' home.
> 
> A few weeks later, Pastor's wife decorated the basement for the Valentine's party - and hung up several cutouts of Cupid. My DH pulled them down and handed them to the Pastor, said he didn't think it was right to have pictures of a pagan god in "God's house". My DH has always had a problem with hypocrites.
> 
> C


Hee, hee! That sounds like something I would do! I've always had a bit of a hard time with stuff like that, too (not that I'm perfect by ANY stretch of the imagination).
~Carrie C.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Boleyz said:


> To me, a "Hillary" doll would be demonic!  :baby04:


What you got against old New Zealander mountain climbers?










Sir Edmund P. Hillary


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## siouxsie (Dec 17, 2006)

I Just found this site a while ago and I am currently lurking and reading all the tons of great information here.

I have to pop my head up in this one and just say, some of you people are just insane.

Really.


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## Westwood (May 13, 2002)

> I have to pop my head up in this one and just say, some of you people are just insane.


Pretty much! But it's OUR crazy people.


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## siouxsie (Dec 17, 2006)

You sure have a lot of them.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Westwood said:


> Dude, from what many of us have observed, no. There is no light hearted comment from you, ever, without a purpose. The point being that you, in your infinite wisdom know better than anyone else what we're supposed to believe or do, and we must agree exactly with what you say or do or we're not only wrong, but stupid for disagreeing with you to start with.
> 
> As Sandra has pointed out before, it gets tiring. For me, it tires my spirit.
> 
> Rant over.


I think that "Rudeness is a small man's Imitation of Power".


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> Let's all just grow up and take a deep breath.Think for yourselves.Evil is as evil does.Let love be in your heart and none but Christ may enter.


I may be an atheist and so regarded by some of you as necessarily part of 'evil', but in all the posts of this thread I've read up to srslades', this is the only one that has made any sense to me.

Evil does not reside in objects but in actions.

I can't remember the movie, but there is a movie from the 1980's or 90's or so that features a bunch of bushmen, a culture which has few posessions and few wants and lives harmoniously. Someone flying over in a small aircraft tosses an empty Coke bottle out of the window, which the bushmen find. It is the only thing of its kind in their world, strange, wonderous, and of a strong material which makes it useful in many ways. It is therefore coveted and introduces contention and strife into the formerly harmonious community. For that reason, eventually, the elders decide that it is evil and must be destroyed, which quest is successful.

Again, it is not the object itself, but what behavior it elicits in people in their cultural situation, which creates evil.

Magic and reading about it isn't evil or make one prone to evil either. Books like the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, by CS Lewis, or anything by Tolkien, contain scads of 'magic', but a clear moral center which is undeniably beneficial to young minds which read them. (actually I have issue with CS Lewis, as his works are a bit mysogynistic, but christian groups love them, perhaps in part for the reasons I object, but that is another issue...).


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## siouxsie (Dec 17, 2006)

That movie was called \"the gods must be crazy\".

Very good example!


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

suburbanite said:


> I can't remember the movie, but there is a movie from the 1980's or 90's or so that features a bunch of bushmen, a culture which has few posessions and few wants and lives harmoniously. Someone flying over in a small aircraft tosses an empty Coke bottle out of the window, which the bushmen find. It is the only thing of its kind in their world, strange, wonderous, and of a strong material which makes it useful in many ways. It is therefore coveted and introduces contention and strife into the formerly harmonious community. For that reason, eventually, the elders decide that it is evil and must be destroyed, which quest is successful.


The Gods Must Be Crazy. 

Was that a Land Rover 60 or an FJ-40 that they called the AntiChrist? (Can't remember if there was a tire on the hood, which would have made it a Land Rover...)

ANYway...



suburbanite said:


> (actually I have issue with CS Lewis, as his works are a bit mysogynistic, but christian groups love them, perhaps in part for the reasons I object, but that is another issue...).


Maybe that's another thread, or we can take it to PM, but I'd love to know on what you base your statement that Lewis was a misogynist. 

Pony!


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

HermitJohn said:


> What you got against old New Zealander mountain climbers?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't you agree that he's a little scary looking?

WTG HJ...LOL


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

Btw, in my experience of 'witches', Wiccans who came to that belief system via a desire to understand and bond with the natural world seem to be those most 'true' to the faith. Kids who come to it thinking they'll get supernatural powers generally do so not because they really believe, or even want to believe, in that religion, but because they feel a distinct lack of power, oppression, and inability to direct their own lives. They want an outside source of power to tap into to gain control, and the traditional god(s) presented to them do not meet their needs, as they tend to be directive and dictatorial rather than responsive and helpful. Such kids don't need more religion to knock them into line, they need psychological counseling to deal with their issues over control and independence. Once they have those issues sorted better, their interest in the occult generally wanes.

This is not based on any studies, just personal observations.


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

Edmund Hillary is often credited with what is apparently an old scandanavian saying--there is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate dress.

Didn't he die of exposure on some expedition somewhere?

(pardon the threadjack)


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

patnewmex said:


> Evil exists only in people's minds. IMHO. Do you think Christ created evil things?


Well considering God made all things it would be logical that God created all things both good and Evil. 
Has anyone stopped to consider why some things were considered evil ? 
take Pigs according to the jewish faith an unclean animal . Pigs caried triconosis cist worms , if pork was not cooked completely people got a terrible long and agonising death . Eat only scaled fish , you do realize that the med and red seas both have a number of scaless fish wich when prepaired wrong are deadly .
The bible like most religious text teach at the time they were written people were quite simple and something that would cause death was evil or a punishment from God .


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## Westwood (May 13, 2002)

I think that "Rudeness is a small man's Imitation of Power".

I think I can rest my case on that one. Could you?


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

re: pyro's post about religious texts and time.

The same thing in the Koran. Considering it in the cultural context, it makes a lot more sense than it does today. For example, in Mohammed's time, women could not own property--they *were* property--which meant if a man died, his widow and family (if no sons) were stripped of their possessions and tossed out like so much trash. The Koran's statements allowing multiple marriages and encouraging men to marry the widows of their brothers was not meant to endorse polygamy, but to act as a social safety net for widows; Mohammed (or Allah, your choice) wisely knew that it was too big a leap for the culture of that time to jump directly from women as property to women as inheritors, so this was a stop-gap intermediate measure that could be embraced by the culture as it then existed.


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

Westwood said:


> I think that "Rudeness is a small man's Imitation of Power".
> 
> I think I can rest my case on that one. Could you?


Actually, I think sometimes taking offense is a small man's imitation of power, at least as practiced on the internet.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

suburbanite said:


> ...Evil does not reside in objects but in actions...


Although your post was interesting I wanted to cut it down to this one statement that really caught my eye. 

In this world, we are taught many things about what is "evil". One reason we are taught that objects and actions are "evil" in themselves is to avoid the realization that God is a Spirit and there are truly evil spirits in this world working against Him. Now, this sounds crazy. Sounded crazy to me 8 years ago too, until I met God. Then my life in this world was over, though the actual working out of that has just really started. I never believed in spirits, though I thought I believed in God. I have learned differently and I have learned that evil spirits and their works are NOT as I had thought they would be when I imagined them. 

What is good is God. What is evil is what rises up against God. It is about where we stand in the spirituals and this world was created so that we could choose to follow God out of love against real opposition or we could choose not to. His desire is that we choose to spend eternity in love and fellowship with Him, His view is that this world is as grass, here for a short time and gone, and the sufferings we make so much of today are very short and small. The prize of fellowship with God is huge and forever and that can start today. 

The reason that this world is an utter mess is that men work all the time against God, to avoid doing His will and serving Him. If we do not serve God wholeheartedly, we will surely serve the devil, as men are not stronger than spirits. Even men's "good" will serve the devil in the end, if that good is not from God and not within His mind. Even today the temptation is to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (our own judgment). 

So, I say it is not object or even actions that determine good or evil, it is the will of God and whether we have given ourselves to serve Him or we are under the mastery of the prince of this world.


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## FarmGoddess (Sep 21, 2006)

Hey, would my Dubya aviator doll be considered a graven image?


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

I disagree, Granny. I think that the idea that one must try to 'do Gods will' is in itself a set-up for evil, because it allows ambitious men to manipulate you by manipulating your perception of 'God's will'.

Anyone who claims to know 'Gods will' can generally be debunked by the fact that 'Gods will' so closely parallels their own.

It is too bad the original 'X' rated (for violence, not sex--initiated the discussion of the NC-17 rating from which the movie Henry and June was the first to benefit) version of Stargate no longer exists. It was an excellent essay on how belief in any god or gods is inherently vulnerable to abuse.


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## FarmGoddess (Sep 21, 2006)

insocal said:


> Demons reside in every article of cotton/poly blend out there.


Polyester was invented by Satan!

Hoffman cotton rules!


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## Westwood (May 13, 2002)

FarmGoddess said:


> Polyester was invented by Satan!
> 
> Hoffman cotton rules!



Snert, again, don't confront them with the old testament unless you're prepared to be confronted with the disparities of whether or not Jesus concluded the law or we're still subject to it. Ohhhh, I really should quit.

Oh, EVIL? The more you're obsesessed by it, the more you'll attracted it to you. Keep your conscience clear and simply, you won't be bothered by evil.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Westwood said:


> I think that "Rudeness is a small man's Imitation of Power".
> 
> I think I can rest my case on that one. Could you?


Absolutely I am satisfied that I have not been rude. Your tagline is what has always inspired me to remember to be nice...

"Rudeness is a small man's imitation of power".


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## LamiPub (Nov 10, 2006)

suburbanite said:


> I disagree, Granny. I think that the idea that one must try to 'do Gods will' is in itself a set-up for evil, because it allows ambitious men to manipulate you by manipulating your perception of 'God's will'.
> 
> *Anyone who claims to know 'Gods will' can generally be debunked by the fact that 'Gods will' so closely parallels their own.*
> 
> It is too bad the original 'X' rated (for violence, not sex--initiated the discussion of the NC-17 rating from which the movie Henry and June was the first to benefit) version of Stargate no longer exists. It was an excellent essay on how belief in any god or gods is inherently vulnerable to abuse.



Actually this is quite false. I guess you would have to be a Christian to understand how far off this one is. I am constantly opposed to God's will and having to repent and ask forgiveness for my failings. Christians know that they cannot do God's will. Jesus Christ has done it all for us.


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

Lami, I was thinking primarily of evangelists who try to lead people in political directions, not one's own personal internal jihads.


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## siouxsie (Dec 17, 2006)

Have you noticed how the word jihad has worked its way into our language? 
We dont even use it in the correct way, which makes it worse.
\'Jihad\' has several disputed meanings even in Islam, we really shouldnt use it if we can use an English term.


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## hrslvrtrailridr (Jan 9, 2007)

Overcome evil with good. The greatest gift is love.


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## Jillis (Sep 11, 2005)

Westwood said:


> Oh, EVIL? The more you're obsesessed by it, the more you'll attracted it to you. Keep your conscience clear and simply, you won't be bothered by evil.


Yes, 
"to the pure in heart, all things are pure" that's somewhere in the NT...


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## Faustus (Jan 11, 2007)

> Has anyone stopped to consider why some things were considered evil ?
> take Pigs according to the jewish faith an unclean animal .


Just for the record, "unclean" or _tameh_ does _not_ equate to "evil." According to Levitical/Talmudic law, women who are menstruating are also "unclean," and Judaism certainly doesn't consider them evil! All it means is that something/someone is spiritually unclean, and shouldn't be touching the Torah or anything like that. Men can also become _tameh_- being in that state does not mean that they are now "evil," but after a dip in the ritual bath, they're "good" again. Totally different set of words to describe the two (totally different) concepts.



> Pigs caried triconosis cist worms , if pork was not cooked completely people got a terrible long and agonising death . Eat only scaled fish , you do realize that the med and red seas both have a number of scaless fish wich when prepaired wrong are deadly .


There's no Talmudic basis for this, however, because the Torah gives no direct explanation of why one shouldn't eat these things. And there are animals included under the banner of _treif_ (non-kosher) that present no known health issues like trichinosis, such as rabbits and camels. If the rules of kashrut are specifically a primitive health code, why are those extra regulations there? I'd say it's more likely that kashrut was adopted to prevent assimilation.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I vividly remember the voodoo doll movie Fiddlecat mentioned, at the end of the first one when Karen has thrown the doll in the oven then opens it to see if it is still alive I got really freaked out. Just as she was opening the door my stepdad grabbed my leg and yelled "it's loose!". I almost wet myself. I screamed and jumped. Haven't watched that movie since.

I remember when Cabbage Patch and the My Little Pony and Care Bears came out. James Dobson (Dotson?? sp???) from Focus on the Family spent way too much time bad-mouthing the toys and saying how demonically influenced they were, Proctor and Gamble was included in his demon-hunt. Even now he thinks donating to environmental causes means you are under the influence of demons. Blah, blah, blah. Just out for a buck himself, there's something in the Bible about how people who prey on their brothers concerns are doing evil deeds. Dr. Dobson, look to the beam in your eye!

IMO, a lot of people are willing to blame objects (the doll made me do it) rather than to take responsibility for their own actions.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Boleyz said:


> Don't you agree that he's a little scary looking?
> 
> WTG HJ...LOL


We all are going to be a little scarey looking if we make it to 88. When did scarey looking start equating to "demonic"?


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

siouxsie said:


> Have you noticed how the word jihad has worked its way into our language?
> We dont even use it in the correct way, which makes it worse.
> \'Jihad\' has several disputed meanings even in Islam, we really shouldnt use it if we can use an English term.


My understanding of the word comes from a Persian friend, which I guess makes it Shiia. It is supposed to be an internal spiritual quest not a war on others.


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## Bluecreekrog (Jun 21, 2002)

As usual this religion thread was allowed to drag on for too long.


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

Bluecreekrog said:


> As usual this religion thread was allowed to drag on for too long.


Wow... *allowed* to drag on... why are some people so against any discussion that has to do with faith?


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

Bluecreekrog said:


> As usual this religion thread was allowed to drag on for too long.


So, don't let us keep you! Feel free to move onto another thread!


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## Queen Bee (Apr 7, 2004)

I have always thought that if you look hard enough and are determined to find evil you, CAN and WILL find it in anything, everything. You can convince yourself and (I guess) others, if you say it enough and loud enough--someone will listen.. 

Religion has caused much more hate than love! Look at all those who listen to these 'nut jobs' and end killing themselves or others-- in the name of that religion/God etc.

People need to think for themselves and stop being lead by someone else! 

I had neighbors once--that told my dear 6 yr. old sweet loving daughter that their children couldn't play with her because she wore pants!! Their sons told other children that she was going to hell because she wasn't suppose to wear pants and she had pictures in her room!!! These are the same very religious neighbors that left their children (ages 8, 6, 4 and 2) alone until 10-11 pm several nights a week while they went to sell AmWay and twice one of the children came come over 'because they were scared'!!! 
My children all had CareBears, Cabbage Patch Kids and even a Strawberry Shortcake doll...they are far from evil--Sorry for my rant...Queen Bee


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