# A food Stamp article with everything that's wrong



## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

in one spot. It's a veritable horror story. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2013/11/09/too-much-of-too-little/#comments
It is probably the closest to the unvarnished truth I have ever seen and resembles the debates here. Down to the only "good" food be rotted in the fridge.

But one thing that really bothers about this whole thing is that when I go to the store and come away with fresh veggies and fruit, my cost is always much less than if I weaken and buy some junk food. Is this not true for anyone else?


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## jacqueg (Feb 21, 2010)

No, it isn't. And I wonder whether it is really true for you, if you stop to think about it. When your food budget is so minimal, you have to go for calories first. The woman in the story has two kids and herself to feed on $400/month. In terms of getting and keeping those bellies filled, she will get the most bang for her buck from a combination of processed grain and fat. And of course their main diet should not be junk food, but she has little enough to give them for pleasure, but she can afford the cheetos. And they won't go bad. Studies show that much of the fresh food in the US is wasted, but when something in my refer goes bad - and it does - I swear at myself, and then buy some more. That option is not available to her.

Then there's the food desert problem, which I won't belabor here, you can google around. She does sound as if she has a working refrigerator, but lots of people cannot even rely on that. 

You can say she shouldn't have had those kids in the first place, and you'd be right, but young bodies want to reproduce, and her religious and cultural heritage likely taught her that there is something wrong with taking steps to prevent conception.

I could go on, but won't. Just remember that when you're really broke, life is at least twice as hard as it is when you're not, your lack of money feeding into a vicious cycle that makes it really hard to get more money. It's entirely true that exceptional people can overcome daunting obstacles, but this woman sounds pretty non-exceptional.

ETA - another thing you can google around is experiments in living on a food-stamp budget, or on some minimal amount of money a day. Its not easy.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

I'm sad for those folks, but their situation is brought about by their own poor decisions. In a free society people are expected to make choices in their own best interests, if they don't, there's nothing to be done. It's especially sad when children are taught by example these terrible dietary habits, but society can't be responsible for people's bad choices.

My late MIL developed diabetes, and all the fringe health problems by not saying no to herself. I told her "you're digging your grave with your spoon", but whenever we'd go to visit my wife would find candy hidden in the cupboards. 

If food stamps could only be used on basic nutritional commodities, a majority of recipients would find a way to trade/sell them for junk food just like today they can scam the system and get liquor and cigarettes.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

Diabetics should have candy on hand in case they take too much insulin.
How can you hide something in your own cuboard?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

jacqueg said:


> No, it isn't. And I wonder whether it is really true for you, if you stop to think about it. When your food budget is so minimal, you have to go for calories first. The woman in the story has two kids and herself to feed on $400/month. In terms of getting and keeping those bellies filled, she will get the most bang for her buck from a combination of processed grain and fat. And of course their main diet should not be junk food, but she has little enough to give them for pleasure, but she can afford the cheetos. And they won't go bad. Studies show that much of the fresh food in the US is wasted, but when something in my refer goes bad - and it does - I swear at myself, and then buy some more. That option is not available to her.
> 
> Then there's the food desert problem, which I won't belabor here, you can google around. She does sound as if she has a working refrigerator, but lots of people cannot even rely on that.
> 
> ...


I feed myself, DH and DS #2 plus send goodies to DS #1 on less than $400 per month so I wouldn't say her food budget is minimal.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

We are in a simalar sitution as the mother. our grocery store here are terrible for fresh fruit and vegetables. Most of them spoil the day after we get them. The closest store where the fresh food isn't like that is 18 miles away. If the food spoils so easy it's not worth much as far as nutrician even when we first buy it, so no sense in buying it even if you eat it the same day. We have a garden , that helps. But the gas needed to go 36 miles to get food isn't there.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I agree that life is much harder when you are broke. Which is the incentive I had for keeping a death grip on a good job when I had it. They'd have had to pry my cold, dead fingers off it. 
But I know that my bill is much less with fresh fruit and vegetables. Maybe it's a California thing but if so, should be true for Texas too.
I shop every 10 days to two weeks. That is mostly by choice because it is expensive to drive to town. It's a good thing mostly.
But it means a bit of forethought. I buy some things like cabbage, carrots, onions, etc that last. I buy some things that don't. Same with fruit- peaches and grapes go fast but apples, oranges, etc last a long time- certainly more than two weeks. I grow my own apples and they last months and months in the firdge. Squash can last a year.

The thing that really was horrorfying was not that people make bad choices or are in bad situations endlessly but that the take away for the social agencies who testified about limiting simply awful valueless foods was that people might not choose to sign up for benefits if you limit what they can buy or would be too stigmatized to shop. And wouldn't it be better to just end poverty? At the same time the whole department is in danger of closing. 

Sounds like a job security program. As if people actually starving would refuse to shop for anything that didn't iinclude cheetos. 

It's amazing according to these people that anyone can survive at all.

Pretty much the preferred and magical solution is never to get better choices to be made but just make sure that no one has to suffer for making them.

I grew up without starving but looking back on it, we lived a life of a roast or chicken on the first of the month and my mom's end of the month repertoire of spanish rice, potato hash, mac and cheese, etc. No one got fat but no one starved either. And as for going to the fridge just because I wanted- don't even want to think about how that would have gone down.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/senatorlisamurkowski/sets/72157630782007502/

Prices of groceries on the shelves.

FYI ---the HIGHER the prices the more rural people are. The more rural the more they can and do live on native foods.

bear, moose, boos, bird eggs, fish ect.---so what I am trying to explain is Meat is costly when people by it in the store

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/dipnetters-descend-kenai-river-amid-record-salmon-run

So, protein is ample for just about ALL Alaskans

Then there is the berries, crab, shrimp, mushrooms, and remember crops grow big--root esp.

So, while eating a diet of non native food cost plenty and add in buying bread at six dollars a loaf baking a loaf is away to save. 

Shopping on Fridays for me is the best as I have a page of lost leaders that are five dollars--that is the per pound for some meat from beef rib roast-to sausage and shrimp--heck lobster a few weeks ago. Chicken would be prices like three pounds for five dollars. Planning saves.

I do spend more than what I did 20 years ago here but I spend well under the government average---When I bought my first house in Anchorage--I did submit my cost of food per the bank's requirement---they wanted it all --I did they said that they could not use my receipts as my family's cost was fifty percent of what the government counted for and so---the put down the the government amount---for the loan.

Government figures lie--and that lie encourages people in justifing relaiance on not doing more for ourselves. How many here can feed a passel of folks for what others see as not enough money to feed one person. 

Yet how often do we see signs to donate for the hungry where it is stated that 
"just five dollars can feed people" So they know it can be done.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

After thinking about this awhile I just want to point out ,this really isn't about food stamps it's really about our economy.
If people had a little money to go with the food stamps or if more decent grocery store felt they would be able to stay oen in the poor areas , alot of these problems would be solved.
It doesn't matter if your paying with cash or food stamps if the stores can't provide fresh food.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Businesses sell what the customers want. If customers in an area don't buy fresh vegetables and fruit, the store won't carry them. They're not in business to dictate people's diets. 

Don't blame the store, blame the customers.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Businesses sell what the customers want. If customers in an area don't buy fresh vegetables and fruit, the store won't carry them. They're not in business to dictate people's diets.
> 
> Don't blame the store, blame the customers.



Exactly! Friend of mine's family has had a small grocery store in an urban area for many, many years. It was at one time a poor working class area, predominately Hispanic, lots of fresh fruit and vegetables, not much in the way of junk food. They did a great business. The demographic changed, the customers didn't want much in the way of wholesome food, it went bad on the shelves, the newer customers wanted junk and asked for it.. Now they look like an overgrown convenience store, even had to put in the protective shield around the cashier.. 

They are in the process right now of closing the store, to much theft, can't get anyone to work there due to the robberies. So that area after having that store for 50+ years will be without..


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

snowcap said:


> Diabetics should have candy on hand in case they take too much insulin.
> How can you hide something in your own cuboard?


OJ works & is actually good for you.

I was on food stamps waaay back when I was in college. Had 3 kids, divorcing, 3 pt time jobs. The am't was outstanding! I'd never spent that much per mo. We'd qualify now for them!! That's how easy it is to get them. 
This admin actually ADVERTISES food stamps. & in spanish too.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

jacqueg said:


> No, it isn't. And I wonder whether it is really true for you, if you stop to think about it. When your food budget is so minimal, you have to go for calories first. The woman in the story has two kids and herself to feed on $400/month. In terms of getting and keeping those bellies filled, she will get the most bang for her buck from a combination of processed grain and fat. And of course their main diet should not be junk food, but she has little enough to give them for pleasure, but she can afford the cheetos. And they won't go bad. Studies show that much of the fresh food in the US is wasted, but when something in my refer goes bad - and it does - I swear at myself, and then buy some more. That option is not available to her.
> 
> Then there's the food desert problem, which I won't belabor here, you can google around. She does sound as if she has a working refrigerator, but lots of people cannot even rely on that.
> 
> ...


First off, you shouldn't be eating for calories, you eat for nutrition, and as far as filling those bellies, Fiber is much more filling, and stays with you longer.
Not alot of fiber in those Cheetos. Food is not for entertainment. it is for survival. There are tons of free entertainment options available to all, I don't care where you live.
The way I understand it, these cards are filled once a month, and are good for the month, correct? Why do they all seem to want to spend the whole thing all at once? You can easily go shopping every two weeks, or since alot of the people getting the benifits, seem to live in larger metropolitan areas, once a week. Most, not all I agree, but most, fresh fruits and veggies (read fiber here) will last about a week in the refrigerator.
So, I'm sorry, but these oh poor me stories just do not carry any weight with me at all.
Also, don't the unused portions of these benefits carry over to the next month? With a small amount of forethought, and planning (read budgeting here), they could be better able to stock up on meats and more expensive foods much easier. I honestly don't know, but it seems to me, that a little education is what is needed here. They need to be taught how to budget, how to shop, and how to cook.
People like to complain about about this issue all the time. but all anyone ever does is try to throw more money at the problem. It needs to be seriously revamped! Some serious educating would, I think, go a long way towards allowing people who need these benefits, to more effectively use them to better their situations, rather than hold them, and their families back, and perpetuate the system.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

Looks like they need to just give people commodities like they used too. Maybe with the problems involved in so many not knowing how to use anything but a microwave send instructions with the food. At least that way they would be getting nutrition not junk..


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

hercsmama said:


> First off, you shouldn't be eating for calories, you eat for nutrition, and as far as filling those bellies, Fiber is much more filling, and stays with you longer.
> Not alot of fiber in those Cheetos. Food is not for entertainment. it is for survival. There are tons of free entertainment options available to all, I don't care where you live.
> The way I understand it, these cards are filled once a month, and are good for the month, correct? Why do they all seem to want to spend the whole thing all at once? You can easily go shopping every two weeks, or since alot of the people getting the benifits, seem to live in larger metropolitan areas, once a week. Most, not all I agree, but most, fresh fruits and veggies (read fiber here) will last about a week in the refrigerator.
> So, I'm sorry, but these oh poor me stories just do not carry any weight with me at all.
> ...


In Your area that might be true. If I had to shop in my small town I would get nothing for the amount they get in food stamps. The local grocrey stores take advantage and gouge their customers. I can see that what they are saying might be true. But giving you kids snack size chips for breakfast should be frowned on not a case for making people a victum.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

> The woman in the story has two kids and herself to feed on $400/month


.

Food stamps are 'supplemental' - meaning to add to what you would otherwise buy.

Rice (brown), beans, chicken, fish, fresh fruit and veggies, herbs can be grown in pots from <$1 seeds we do it all year round.
Water, Milk, cheese. With these items you have the basics of good meals and healthy diets.

Whats expensive in the above?


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## SeanInVa (Oct 3, 2013)

mnn2501 said:


> .
> 
> Food stamps are 'supplemental' - meaning to add to what you would otherwise buy.
> 
> ...


Yep, you can do that. Many here already do this or some form of gardening.

However, this is a lost practice in many areas of the country. We have had the practice of getting all our food from the local grocery beat into our heads so much, many don't even stop to think "hey, I could grow some of my own food and save a ton of $$$". I think gardening comes across as "too much work", and of course, many of us have been spoiled, spoiled, spoiled by modern conveniences.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

snowcap said:


> In Your area that might be true. If I had to shop in my small town I would get nothing for the amount they get in food stamps. The local grocrey stores take advantage and gouge their customers. I can see that what they are saying might be true. But giving you kids snack size chips for breakfast should be frowned on not a case for making people a victum.


Sounds like another good reason for a commodity based supplemental program. Volume buying cures alot of the cost problems.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

Ambereyes said:


> Sounds like another good reason for a commodity based supplemental program. Volume buying cures alot of the cost problems.


They would have to change from what I remember as a kid.
There was rice, macaroni, beans, lard, cheese, canned pork, corn meal, white flour, dry milk and canned peaches or apple sauce.
The food bank here gets some of the comodities to pass out still. Beans, macaroni rice.
But theres no fresh food. What they do have comes from private gardens.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

I would anticipate the upgrade, just think how different WIC is in comparison to it's beginning.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

I don't see the food stamp program changing much, I think it was Florida who tryed to stop them from buying soda with them and the USDA put a stop to it.
I guess if parent won't teach kids how to eat the schools are going to have to. And no one likes it when the schools try to be the parents.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

$400 per month? Sheesh. That seems like a lot. It does take time, but buying in bulk, shopping seasonally and keeping track of sales + couponing and combining deals..you can feed a family of 4 well for less than $400 per month. I do and I'm in an area that while not considered a food desert, is cold for much of the year which is more limiting in terms of selection of fruits and veggies.

Shopping smartly and frugally takes time, however.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

Some schools tried to provide healthy meals finally gave up, the children would not eat them and the parents complained. Lots of wasted good nutritional food. It may be a time for some tough love. These children are starting their lives with health problems, many due to the food they consume. The costs for health services will no doubt be astronomical. And these kids will not live full lives.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

SeanInVa said:


> Yep, you can do that. Many here already do this or some form of gardening.
> 
> However, this is a lost practice in many areas of the country. We have had the practice of getting all our food from the local grocery beat into our heads so much, many don't even stop to think "hey, I could grow some of my own food and save a ton of $$$". I think gardening comes across as "too much work", and of course, many of us have been spoiled, spoiled, spoiled by modern conveniences.


I was just talking about growing herbs in pots, not gardening - although its certainly possible.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

Around here those who go to the food bank pass what they can't use to other people or trade it for other non food things. DH comes home with boxes of beans, rice, fresh fruit,vegetables, potatoes, and roasts that he trades for. 
People don't even cook let alone eat right.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Ambereyes said:


> Some schools tried to provide healthy meals finally gave up...


:hijacked: here.

Yes, my cousin's wife works in food service and she often talks about the changes that were made to the lunches, more healthy ones. The parents are thrilled! Yay..walleye for lunch and broccoli! Yet, she sees the true story - the turned up noses and basic refusal of these foods, but she's obligated to give it to them anyway. So guess what happens after lunch? You guessed it..tons of thrown away, untouched food. :hair


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

snowcap said:


> After thinking about this awhile I just want to point out ,this really isn't about food stamps it's really about our economy.
> If people had a little money to go with the food stamps or if more decent grocery store felt they would be able to stay oen in the poor areas , alot of these problems would be solved.
> It doesn't matter if your paying with cash or food stamps if the stores can't provide fresh food.


In fact, yes, you can survive without fresh food quite well. This is just the latest in line of excuses provided by the establishment that it just because a person can't get fresh tomatoes they are fat. It allows them always to find someone other than the particpant or the program to blame. And blame allows the fixable problems to be ignored and to pretend that there is nothing that can be done because some stands in the way.
I lived much of my childhood in a place where fresh food was too dangerous to eat so my mother prepared canned veggies and fruit constantly. No one was malnourished or fat. It was even worse that is common now because frozen foods were not available either. And any local food had the heck cooked out of it to be safe. 
But potato chips, prepared foods, sugar drinks also were unavailable.
It is not lack of access to fresh food or lack of calories that make this epidemic of obesity and diabetes this article decided to assign to poverty. 
It was only about 60 years ago that fresh food was pretty limited in much of the country- people did survive on preserved food and meat. They were not a nation of fat people.

There are many problems with some people's situations but it is foolish to ask those who fail or encourage failure for the solution. The place to look is with the people who did not fail.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

If I didn't work and had 5 kids- I am sure I would be tired- I have a friend who has 5 kids and is a stay at home mom- she cooks almost exclusively from scratch and cans- she makes meal plans and it was part of her and her Hubby's plan - they don't eat out- to keep the living expenses low so she can stay home- it can be done- 
it is hard work- if noone taught her- then even harder- 
I wish Foodstamps came with cook from scratch classes!! 
I don't get foodstamps- but I have a food budget of around 300 bucks a month for me - DH a 17 and 10 yr old boy- 
and I make breakfast, pack lunches and cook dinner from scratch and work- sure I am tired- but - it is worth it to me- we eat out no more than 2 times a month-as a treat


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

There will be those who claim the money isn't sufficient to buy healthy food. People on food stamps are not the only ones trying to live off a shoestring grocery budget. People have done it for generations. You can buy that case of 24 snack sized cheetos - OR - you could buy a couple pounds of rice or beans. You can buy the candy and cokes - OR - you can buy canned vegetables. I have a pantry full that I got for 25 cents per can on sale with a coupon. It isn't as good as fresh, but it is better than cheetos and a bit more versatile. You can't toss cheetos into stew or caserole. There is nothing wrong with occasional treats - but to say that junk is ALL they can afford is utter nonsense.

Then there will be those that say they live in a food desert. Where there are less choices and they are more expensive. So plan a careful menu and get yourself a ride to a bigger and cheaper store once or twice per month. I know a woman who runs a daycare. She plans a menu and shops for a large group of kiddos once per month. Takes a few carts and several hours, but it is doable. I only shop once per week for my family of five.

Then there are those who will say it is just lack of education. I think you have to live in a snowcave to not know that some stuff isn't all that great for you. The information is out there - ad nauseum. It's in articles, on tv shows, it is almost impossible to escape the nagging about eating right. It's everywhere, it's free. Free recipes, free sample weekly menus, free, free, free, free....

Here is the truth that nobody seems to want to say. Some people just don't give a . Some people don't want the basic foods that you have to wash, cut up, toss in with other ingredients and cook for an hour. It requires time, and then it requires clean up. Some people turn from this lifestyle when health issues arise, and some don't even then. You cannot force people to care. They either do or they don't. 

We keep tossing more money at it as if that will change anything. At some point you have to realize that you cannot control people. Not only do you not have the right - but you also lack the ability. Short of imprisoning them and placing a healthy meal in front of them 3 times per day while guards watch to ensure it gets eaten and not traded around or tossed in the garbage, you can't accomplish it.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

paradox said:


> We keep tossing more money at it as if that will change anything. At some point you have to realize that you cannot control people. Not only do you not have the right - but you also lack the ability. Short of imprisoning them and placing a healthy meal in front of them 3 times per day while guards watch to ensure it gets eaten and not traded around or tossed in the garbage, you can't accomplish it.


Hooray for reality. There are some battles that are not going to succeed. 
Publish about successful (not rich but people living well) people. Give examples of how it is done rather than how it is not done.
There is an endless litany with most media- you'd think that no one ever graduated from high school or worked steadily or stayed healthy.
Even "feel good stories" are about people working for charities. It has become not enough to live a good live- to take care of yourself and your family. The parents who provide for their family. It gains no respect. 
It's like photoshopping model images to make them "perfect." Almost no one will live up to this standard of endless "ought to"s and will have to have constant battering about how they are not good enough.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Ambereyes said:


> Looks like they need to just give people commodities like they used too. Maybe with the problems involved in so many not knowing how to use anything but a microwave send instructions with the food. At least that way they would be getting nutrition not junk..


It's too late for that.

$80 billion per year in food stamps, it's big business for big Ag and major food processors.

They are not going to stand by and let the beans, rice and "cheez", folks rake in all that dough.

That's why mars Candy and Pepsico, etc. wanted (and got) in.

Unfortunately for many, getting a free pizza, verses getting free broccoli, is a "no brainer".


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

Yeah follow the money.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

Follow the money, ditto.
According to the media, spend spend spend -->$$-->corporations-->government. There is a whole generation, again, that thinks this is how things ought to be.

There is a blog of a woman in S Carolina, eating or trying to eat on $1/day.

http://365dollaryear.blogspot.com/2010_02_01_archive.html
Start at the bottom of the page. She begins February 2010.
Now she is still blogging from Mexico.

I read from Feb '10 to May '10 so far. 
Beans, rice, potatoes, split peas, veggies, little fruit, oatmeal, breads...and she is becoming a vegetarian.
She talks about days that she calls "fails" and feeling "lazy".
She talks about growing plants for food. She is both afraid of losing too much weight and gaining too much weight, not eating for too long before meals, because of not preparing enough in advance, then cheating, the following guilt feelings, how she can make things better if she tries, taking allergy meds and not eating at all. Not having a car or job, getting a car.

Between what she is surviving on food wise and how much work it is for basically one person--I am feeling depressed from reading it. 

Warning: If you read it and become engrossed in it, you'll be up all night and maybe into the next day. She is just a normal person not a writer and not a perfectionist, she just keeps trying. 

(My general opinion is that if you haven't tried to eat for $1/day you just don't know what it would take and the harsh judgments I'm seeing here a quite a disappointment. And yes I did read the OP's entire article and a hundred comments after it--it was a good article. Between the food desert, lack of transportation, appliances, and her health problems, and her kids, I can see why this happens.)


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## Reboopie (Sep 12, 2013)

Why buy bread at $3 a loaf when you can make it for pennies?

Why cook old fashion oatmeal when the packets are so easy?

Why make cookies from scratch when they have them pre made in the bakery, in the refrigerated section, on the shelves packaged and ready to go. 

Why make soup when they sell it in cans and in the freezer. 

Why teach children to drink water when soda is so readily available? 

Why cook chicken for your kids when you can microwave chicken nuggets?

The answer to all the questions above is laziness.

People no longer cook, they warm stuff up that is full of salt, fat and chemicals. That is why people are obese. 

The mother in the article said she was too tired to make her children eat properly. If it is not in the house they can't eat it. 

I made one meal, everyone ate what I made. If they didn't like something they still had to eat at least a bite. If they didn't eat what I made they did not eat. 
I had to eat what I made as well, I HATE broccoli but I ate it at least twice a week (steamed with I tablespoon butter for the entire crown) because two of my three kids loved it. 

Laziness is the biggest issue. 



Sent from my iPhone using Homesteading Today


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Reboopie said:


> Why buy bread at $3 a loaf when you can make it for pennies?
> 
> Why cook old fashion oatmeal when the packets are so easy?
> 
> ...


Amen- good for you- nothing good is easy
Do I hate cooking sometimes? Heck yea- do the kids say- we are tired of chicken ever? Heck yea- so I try to fix it otherways- it isn't always easy- but it is doable


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

Reboopie said:


> Why buy bread at $3 a loaf when you can make it for pennies?
> 
> Why cook old fashion oatmeal when the packets are so easy?
> 
> ...


There are other things in life besides cooking and washing dishes. Some short cuts are ok. And no I am not lazy.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> Follow the money, ditto.
> (My general opinion is that if you haven't tried to eat for $1/day you just don't know what it would take and the harsh judgments I'm seeing here a quite a disappointment. And yes I did read the OP's entire article and a hundred comments after it--it was a good article. Between the food desert, lack of transportation, appliances, and her health problems, and her kids, I can see why this happens.)


The person in the article is not eating on a dollar a day- she is getting over $2 per day per person (probably double that because although the article mentions 6 children, only three are shown.) SNAP is only one source of her income- although only the disability benefit is mentioned in passing, there are likely to be other sources of food like the children's school meals, maybe WIC.

Although you mention all the latest buzz words-food desert, lack of transportation, appliances, and her health problems, and her kids- none of those are actually mentioned as applying to her except the health issue and kids. They applied to someone from an illegal housing complex outside town.

It is an article written to support a point of view, throwing in stories to wring the heart. But they don't lead to the conclusion. Her kitchen is empty of healthy foods but not unhealthy ones. It would not take much to substitute the "sugary cereal" for a healthy one- chocolate milk for white. And what does cheese-flavored potato chips do for anyone?


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

where I want to said:


> The person in the article is not eating on a dollar a day-


Yep, I'm quite aware of that. If you had read some of the $1/day blog, you'd see what they have in common.



> And what does cheese-flavored potato chips do for anyone?


I don't know. I'm suddenly now hungry for a nacho cheese dorito.  MMMMMMM


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> Yep, I'm quite aware of that. If you had read some of the $1/day blog, you'd see what they have in common.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know. I'm suddenly now hungry for a nacho cheese dorito.  MMMMMMM



Okay on a lighter note- you know those weddings that have Chocolate fountains? I have told my Hubby for years- why WHY are there no Nacho Cheese fountains?!!!

so about 3 yrs ago I was sitting at a table before dinner at a wedding reception- Hubby goes to the bathroom - practically runs back in to tell me - get out here there is a Nacho Fountain!!!!
WOW- they had a NAcho Bar!!!! I was in HEAVEN!


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## CountryWannabe (May 31, 2004)

Just as an anecdote - a couple of years ago my SIL's company closed and he had to take a much lower paying job. My daughter fed herself, her DH and two girls (aged 11 & 16) on around $200 per month. No SNAP or any other benefits. She fed them three solid meals per day, while home-schooling (so no free breakfasts, lunches or weekend backpacks, either). I will grant you that they were not eating filet mignon or lobster - but they did eat pretty well. She home cooked everything from scratch, barring the occasional cake mix. They ate a fair amount of Asian food - rice or noodles with vegetables and a small amount of meat, but by varying the seasonings a good variety can be achieved; they ate a lot of chicken - again that can be cooked many different ways; a goodly number of eggs and quite a bit of hamburger made into things like shepherd's pie, tamale pie, meatloaf, etc. She baked bread, cookies, and the occasional cake. Their nearest supermarket was some 20 miles or so away, so she did one shopping day per week to save gas and the extra one always spends on impulse buys. If they were missing an ingredient - too bad.

It CAN be done. But the people doing it need the tools: the ability to work to a budget, the ability to plan and shop wisely, and the ability to turn what they cook into appealing meals. Without all three, it is very difficult.

Oh - and on the subject of food deserts. There has long been that complaint in North Tulsa. So the city cut a large supermarket chain a great deal to open a store in that barren wasteland. It closed within a year or so. Why? Despite state of the art security systems they just couldn't keep up with the theft.

Mary


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

The problem is these people just don't know any better. I think that before food stamps are initially given out, the adult recipients should be required to attend a class that would consist of things like nutrition, cooking from scratch, setting a food budget; as well as alternatives to food stamps, such as growing at least some of your own food, how to get job/better job, how to keep a job, etc.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

When food stamps were really stamps, or coupons, they were sent in the mail. So every month you got a mailing. Inside with the food stamps were recipes and tips to stretch them and maintain good nutrition. Since they switched to the electronic cards, the opportunity for education of the recipients went away. The cards were supposed to save money on printing, postage and labor of physically doing the monthly mailing to so many recipients, and also by reducing fraud because the generic stamps could be sold, traded, whatever and not used for the intended purpose by the intended recipient. But since we have gone to electronic benefits, I don't see any savings. I don't think the recipient has to show ID to use the card, so anyone could use it just like the stamps. So the savings and the fraud prevention didn't work, but the opportunity to share some information was lost. That's progress????


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Karen said:


> The problem is these people just don't know any better. I think that before food stamps are initially given out, the adult recipients should be required to attend a class that would consist of things like nutrition, cooking from scratch, setting a food budget; as well as alternatives to food stamps, such as growing at least some of your own food, how to get job/better job, how to keep a job, etc.


I've posted this very thing before and someone said, wait, do you want the government teaching about money management?..or something like that. Heck, I'd be willing to teach a class. I have a feeling that many people just don't know how to manage their money and things snowball from there. If they were not taught these things growing up, one can see how they reach adulthood and have bad spending habits already in place.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Part of the trouble is that some people just run their lives from disaster to disaster. If they're rich, people laugh. But if they're poor, it ceased to be funny. They waste their opportunities and damage their dependents.

That does not mean they should get nothing. They should get enough that would allow a normal person to survive long enough to help themselves.

The thing I hate is the endless social agencies. media and people employed in providing services, blaming the situation on the lack of more. Just give them (fill in here forever) and things will magically fine. Give them $3000 per month and they will keep their appointments, see their children go to school daily, pay all their bills, shop sensibly for health, etc. 
Well there are millionaires who haven't got the sense of a chicken. 

Everyone pretty much wants more but, when it's taken from others, there must be limits. It is simly her own fault she buys bad things when perfectly good things are available for the same cost.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

where I want to said:


> Part of the trouble is that some people just run their lives from disaster to disaster. If they're rich, people laugh. But if they're poor, it ceased to be funny. They waste their opportunities and damage their dependents.
> 
> That does not mean they should get nothing. They should get enough that would allow a normal person to survive long enough to help themselves.
> 
> ...


But that's the problem. They honest and truly don't know any other way. Many welfare recipients have never known anything else. They were born into a welfare family, never had good role models, nor have ever been taught what *is* a bad decision and how to make better choices. They can't distinguish between 'needs' and 'wants' because they don't know how to separate the emotional desires from decision making. They live for today and can't comprehend consequences of bad decisions. The only way they ever will 'get it' is to break the cycle -- by educating them otherwise. Of course some will never want to learn and won't, but if 10 out of 100 do learn to improve their lives by better choice making, then a program like I mentioned above would be well worth it and would pay for itself.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

SLFarmMI said:


> I feed myself, DH and DS #2 plus send goodies to DS #1 on less than $400 per month so I wouldn't say her food budget is minimal.


 We are feeding 9 on $500 a month right now. That lady is living high on the hog IMHO.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

The old adage applies here.. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Or in this day and age, Give a man a filet-o-fish to shut him up.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Reboopie said:


> Why buy bread at $3 a loaf when you can make it for pennies?
> 
> Why cook old fashion oatmeal when the packets are so easy?
> 
> ...


No it isn't laziness. 

One of the biggest problems we have today are whole generations who have never cooked. They don't know how to make anything that doesn't come out of a box and go into a microwave. Take someone with no idea how to cook, living in poverty and let them work hard all day and then you expect them to come home and try to bake a loaf of bread.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

NamasteMama said:


> We are feeding 9 on $500 a month right now. That lady is living high on the hog IMHO.


Um odd you said this just the other day in another thread in CF: 



NamasteMama said:


> What is your monthly food budget? We dont have a budget but we spend about $1500 a month
> For how many people? 9
> Do you grow your own fruit and vegetables *nope*
> Do you include the costs of eating out?* no*
> ...


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## kendall j (Mar 30, 2007)

jacqueg said:


> No, it isn't. And I wonder whether it is really true for you, if you stop to think about it. When your food budget is so minimal, you have to go for calories first. The woman in the story has two kids and herself to feed on $400/month. In terms of getting and keeping those bellies filled, she will get the most bang for her buck from a combination of processed grain and fat. And of course their main diet should not be junk food, but she has little enough to give them for pleasure, but she can afford the cheetos. And they won't go bad. Studies show that much of the fresh food in the US is wasted, but when something in my refer goes bad - and it does - I swear at myself, and then buy some more. That option is not available to her.
> 
> Then there's the food desert problem, which I won't belabor here, you can google around. She does sound as if she has a working refrigerator, but lots of people cannot even rely on that.
> 
> ...


Please explain how she can't feed a family of 3 on that much when I can feed my family of 6 for less than $550 a month? We do it with as much fresh produce as we can. We don't buy junk, yet we can afford to budget that little for food. It is all about priorities. Priorities lose their importance when you are sucking on the government teat.


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## HerseyMI (Jul 22, 2012)

hercsmama said:


> First off, you shouldn't be eating for calories, you eat for nutrition, and as far as filling those bellies, Fiber is much more filling, and stays with you longer.
> Not alot of fiber in those Cheetos. Food is not for entertainment. it is for survival. There are tons of free entertainment options available to all, I don't care where you live.


Not everybody handles fiber well. To be blunt... it makes me shat like a goose! No raisin bran for me!! OMG it is painful, don't play around in the bathroom if I've had a high fiber meal... I will not have pity on you! Meat and "some" veggies is my preferred diet.

So... don't paint everyone with the same "fill'em with fiber" brush. Some of us are more closely related to carnivores than herbivores.


Sent from my MB855 using Homesteading Today mobile app


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

it's kinda bad that the writer has to make the mother look so bad just to prove a point. But I guess it's alright cause she probably doesn't exist.
I don't think the story does very well at convincing anyone to give the mother more to feed the kids chips. If she really was trying to feed her kids that would be different. 
We have enough people to worry about without making up more hungry families.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

HerseyMI said:


> Not everybody handles fiber well. To be blunt... it makes me shat like a goose! No raisin bran for me!! OMG it is painful, don't play around in the bathroom if I've had a high fiber meal... I will not have pity on you! Meat and "some" veggies is my preferred diet.
> 
> So... don't paint everyone with the same "fill'em with fiber" brush. Some of us are more closely related to carnivores than herbivores.
> 
> ...


You're right, I was making a very generalized statement. But, I still maintain that you can easily feed three to four people a month, and feed them healthy food, for this amount of money. Between budgeting, and some good old home cooking, it can, and is being done all over the world.


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## seagullplayer (Nov 6, 2008)

*Where is the dad?*

First you try to help people, give them a hand when they really need it, then it becomes a way of life.

The issue is not what can I buy with $400 for five people, it is why do you expect others to feed your responsibility?

Its not about teaching people to eat better, its about teaching people to feed themselves.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Patchouli said:


> Um odd you said this just the other day in another thread in CF:


I would assume that she fat fingered the key board and added a 1


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Karen said:


> But that's the problem. They honest and truly don't know any other way. Many welfare recipients have never known anything else. They were born into a welfare family, never had good role models, nor have ever been taught what *is* a bad decision and how to make better choices. They can't distinguish between 'needs' and 'wants' because they don't know how to separate the emotional desires from decision making. They live for today and can't comprehend consequences of bad decisions. The only way they ever will 'get it' is to break the cycle -- by educating them otherwise. Of course some will never want to learn and won't, but if 10 out of 100 do learn to improve their lives by better choice making, then a program like I mentioned above would be well worth it and would pay for itself.


It might be true if it was a matter of education. But there is plenty of evidence of how to do better, there are plenty of opportunities to learn. But why should they learn when they are constantly told that it is all the problem of society not giving them enough to succeed.
Basically, people do what they like to do. Doing otherwise grates. 
What they don't like is the results of doing what they like to do. That is not so nice. but they convince themselves that they can have the magic solution where they get what they want while doing what they want. They buy the lottery ticket rather than cook from scratch.
In this case you have people who probably do not think it through, which is hard for everyone, being told it is not their fault, which is an comforting idea. They will not show up for classes because they think they know a lot more about being poor than you do and why should they.
I mentioned once to a social worker that children in this area needed good dental care. She said there were piles of dentists voluteering their services but they could not get the mothers to keep their appointments for their children. The department ended up bribing the mother to bring the children in with coupon for free fast food. For that they would show up.


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

I spend 200 a month for me n my fiancÃ©. Most of that is spent on meat and veggies and fruit. We rarely by anything packaged or processed. If u take the time to plan meals and cook for the week and use ur leftovers for lunch it's doable. I believe alot of ppl shop for convenience . A 3.50 bag of Cheetos will by a loaf of bread and peanut butter and jelly . Lunch for a week? Food is for nourishment not enjoyment that is why IMHO we have such a problem with obesity. Start looking at your food as the fuel to sustain a healthy body and your weight and your grocery bill goes down.


Sent from my iPhone using Homesteading Today


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Patchouli said:


> No it isn't laziness.
> 
> One of the biggest problems we have today are whole generations who have never cooked. They don't know how to make anything that doesn't come out of a box and go into a microwave. Take someone with no idea how to cook, living in poverty and let them work hard all day and then you expect them to come home and try to bake a loaf of bread.


we aren't saying you have bake all your own bread- but seriuosly- it is laziness to refuse to learn to cook and it is a shame that it is used as an excuse- that they weren't taught- my mom was a single mom and we were latch key kids... she still managed to throw ingredients together and not feed us junk- 
when I got married- I knew how to cook rice and chicken and few other things since I made dinner for my mom brother and myself a lot of nights when she had to work late when I was in Highschool- that is it- and that was boneless chicken- I took the time to learn a new recipe a week- if not and on the weekends I practiced inbetween cleaning and spending time with my family-

There should be classes and teaching these folks on Food stamps- there has to be a way of sharing how to maximize their dollar value!


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Becka03 said:


> I would assume that she fat fingered the key board and added a 1


She did that on the eating out 3 times a week too? Because that really affects your grocery budget if you eat away from home 3 days a week.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

There are many education programs offered to help with food choices and preparation. Getting some to take advantage of them is the challenge, basically why should they when they can comfortably continue as they please.


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Eating out is one of those things we just don't do. And we don't miss it. Fast food is the worst thing u can put in your body. Not only that but giving your money to such places is harmful to the small farmer. Promotes industrial agriculture which destroys the land. Anyone ever seen a video on these cattle processing plants/ farms that tge majority of fast food meat comes from? It's disgusting. Sure once in awhile a special night to a fancy place I can see. But 3 to times a week? You are basically paying someone to kill you slowly. Even the best chain full service restraints serve mostly processed pre packaged foods loaded with chemicals for preserving and sodium to replace flavor lost from over processing. Ugh. I'm too picky about what I eat to put that garbage in my mouth. 


Sent from my iPhone using Homesteading Today


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Ambereyes said:


> There are many education programs offered to help with food choices and preparation. Getting some to take advantage of them is the challenge, basically why should they when they can comfortably continue as they please.


 
Considering the fact that most of America eats like this food stamps or not I think the bigger problem is our food system. It is ever so easy to blame food stamps or laziness or whatever but the reality is that the people who control the majority of the food sold in America today know that the human body was designed to crave fat, salt and sugar because for most of human history those were in short supply. So they load the shelves with highly addictive food. When you add in poverty, people seeking the most calories for the least money, stress, etc. it means almost all of us in America are dying of food related diseases and the poor disproportionately so.


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

And another thing: that 50 or 60 dollars you spend at Olive Garden for a family of four would buy a weeks worth of fresh fruits and veggies easily. For me it's a no brainer... Sorry I'm so passionate about this subject. But it's one of the reasons I'm on my path to self sustainability . Even fresh produce at the store is grown using methods that are simply not good for the earth. Between gmo's and chemicals and hormones and all the other ways science has " improved" the output of crops. I dream of a day when I Hardley have to shop at the grocery store. 


Sent from my iPhone using Homesteading Today


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

Patchouli said:


> Considering the fact that most of America eats like this food stamps or not I think the bigger problem is our food system. It is ever so easy to blame food stamps or laziness or whatever but the reality is that the people who control the majority of the food sold in America today know that the human body was designed to crave fat, salt and sugar because for most of human history those were in short supply. So they load the shelves with highly addictive food. When you add in poverty, people seeking the most calories for the least money, stress, etc. it means almost all of us in America are dying of food related diseases and the poor disproportionately so.


My feeling is if a person wants to injure themselves through their own intentional actions, than go for it but don't expect the rest of us to support it. Going with your reasoning maybe the weaknesses are so bred into a portion of society that they are at the end of their evolutionary cycle.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

^ That totally reminds me of Wall-E with the people so large from not walking and short little useless fingers. Maybe some members of society are morphing into that? Darwin's survival of the fittest, eh?

:hijacked: Read Sugar, Salt, Fat by Michael Moss..how the food giants hooked us. It's long but wow, just wow.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

There is a B type movie kinda cheaply made called Idiocracy, it kinda seems aprapo. :happy:


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Patchouli said:


> She did that on the eating out 3 times a week too? Because that really affects your grocery budget if you eat away from home 3 days a week.


 When we 'treat' ourselves to a quick meal- it is Little Ceasers- it is 5.30 cents for a pizza- even at 3 times a week- if we did that- which we don't it is normally once a month it would be 63.60- 2 pizzas depending on the size of the family- would be 127.20...
that isn't adding too much- grant it- going to McDonalds 3 times a week would be much more- unless each fam member is getting from the value menu- or even subway- then again you could use coupons for eating out as well- we use coupons when we eat out as a treat at a restaurant- a free appetizer or buy one get one free meal- or kids eat free- but we always ALWAYs tip- what the true cost of the meal would have been... you can eat out cheaply - if you research a little

then again - maybe she mean 3 picnics a week - that is technically eating out


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Ahhh, food stamps. I have been on food stamps, and while I did buy a lot of staples, I also bought items I would not normally because I could not afford them on my limited income.

WIC requires recipients to attend monthly training sessions where they learn how to cook. And wic gives an allowance for fresh food as part of the money.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

GoldenCityMuse said:


> WIC requires recipients to attend monthly training sessions where they learn how to cook.


I learned something new today! What happens if people don't go to these meetings?


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

Check out this pdf from Washinton State WIC.
http://www.nal.usda.gov/wicworks/Sharing_Center/WA_beanbook.pdf

The Bold and Beautiful Book of Bean Recipes!



> Welcome to the World of Beans!
> At a fi rst glance beans may seem rather dull. But when you take a closer look you see that
> beans have a rainbow of colors, and a variety of shapes and fl avors! The natural colors of
> beans are dazzling: there are white beans, pink beans, red beans, black beans. Beans can
> ...


WOO HOO!! How exciting. (not)

Page 3


> *Canned beans are NOT a WIC allowed food.


Why do we make this so difficult? It takes preparation, a place to cook, appliances, dishes/pans, and 1 and 1/2 and 2 hours to make them--while you should be looking for or working at a job. 
I'm not on WIC or SNAP--and I make beans often--and yes it does take time and so I usually can only get it done on the week-ends and in bulk. It's not impossible but it isn't convenient in any way.

What worries me, is if they won't even let you get canned beans, and there is this regulation, say, just in this state, then what are the rules in MY state, and how is rice regulated, and chicken, and other canned foods--what is allowed or not allowed on WIC?
See, I don't want to learn the regulations because I'm not on it but I do care because I see stuff like this and it is tax money being used.
There are many barriers to getting fresh food, imagine trying to be a vendor for a farmer's market, can you take food stamps or EBT?


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

A crock pot is easy to get and works well. But WIC is for kids isn't it. Beans and kids don't do well together.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I must say that when I have had one of those long waits behind someone using WIC, SNAP and cash, I have had lots of time to notice what products are available on each. The WIC stuff is usually much healthier looking. Lots of whole foods, fruits. The SNAP stuff is much less so, with lots of processed foods, and the cash stuff is usually liquor, cigarettes, etc.
I can't say that there seems much in the line of veggies in either group. But I'm sure that's choice of the buyer.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

Wic in west Virginia includes the following....infants formula, infant cereal and baby food; children milk, cheese, juice, eggs, cereal, bread, peanut butter or beans and $6.00 for fresh fruit and vegetables. The cheese must be real cheese not a process cheese food, beans may be dry or canned.

We are raising our dgds and youngest will be 1 tomorrow. We used wic to help with formula as it is about $20.00 per can. Now that she I'll be off formula we won't be using wic. We feed 5 of us for about $150.-175. without food stamps.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

lindamarie said:


> beans may be dry or canned.
> 
> We are raising our dgds and youngest will be 1 tomorrow. We used wic to help with formula as it is about $20.00 per can. Now that she I'll be off formula we won't be using wic. We feed 5 of us for about $150.-175. without food stamps.


Beans may be dry or canned--now that makes much more sense.

And thank you for raising them with and without WIC.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

As for the lack of knowledge ---it can be gained ---unless the people are stupid---yep stupid--as in unable to learn. 

Look I am not a saint. I came from once a week nail jobs to in a few years to a food freezer---Alaska---short growing season--transportation issues--major differenct in food growing from NY.

When SHTF for us --I sought out ways to make it--I have had not freezer--no pots --no stove--

So I dumpter dived and I have been using three of those pan for the last ten years adding what the church help with and time I have pleanty.

I am on homesteading today because I lacked the skills and knowledge to make it in Alaska in a primative sidutation.---I am NOT stupid. In holding person with out the knowledge as that is acceptable you are harming them.

I used food stamps and I bought seeds (learned the info on the government form under how to use foodstamps and what you can and can not buy with them)--That bit of info opened my eyes to a plan--The next step was to gain knowledge--internet education and old local timers.

I used craigs list for canning supplies-I posted signs for equipment and jars--. Once I got off of my pity party of "How could this happen" and "Why me" I found hope.

Look I had raw land--never had a person used it in at least 100 years and then it was only used part of the year by migratory Native indians as the clearning of the land told the story. I found the remains of long term fish storage pits that where used. Finding them encouraged me more as if a culture of people live around here and survived with out gas, oil, and ele--there had to be enough to make it.

I got 9 chickens that were discards for 9 bucks I think and a bag of feed included with the birds. That was a Christmas gift for my boy --the plan was he could enjoy them alive and I would kill them and serve them for dinner.---But the birds started laying --sparing their lives. Come spring they cleared a small area and folks wanted eggs. 

I was able to show a plan to my case worker that maybe We could farm our way off of government help. I requested that family give gift cert for a hatchery and hatched eggs --I got DEC approved to sell eggs all above board--I was doing it. 

The birds were free ranged and cost nothing in the summer but winter was hard --Beans were cheap and I was given a vast mount of beans from a home torn down and a stash found in hidden and unknown till the tear down. So the birds lived on beans and broth --warm and aided in keeping them hydrated with such cold temps.

I got out of sell and butchard the birds due to NAIS. I could not afford the requirements that were being pushed and I did not wish to allow government to have a hold on my land. 

The improvemest to the land from the chickens allowed for better gardening.

I am saying this because if there is a need and the excuse is they do not know---I think the next thing to ask is Do they want to learn or do they want to sit and live in "pity me land". Pity me land will just allow them to be regulated to a drone like lifeform that seems to lead to envy which leads to high crime and violence.

Teach people to fish. This very site changed a family --educated me on how to make it. You have taught me to hatch eggs, plant, can, bake, build, make do--this site did give HOPE and DID CHANGE things for real. It is not a sound bite but reality. I have posted this site at the foodstamp office and at a food bank. It is real help--but you have to want it and be willing to work.---It has been a ten year work so far and it has made a difference.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

kasilofhome said:


> Teach people to fish. This very site changed a family --educated me on how to make it. You have taught me to hatch eggs, plant, can, bake, build, make do--this site did give HOPE and DID CHANGE things for real. It is not a sound bite but reality. I have posted this site at the foodstamp office and at a food bank. It is real help--but you have to want it and be willing to work.---It has been a ten year work so far and it has made a difference.


:thumb: Your post should be made as a sticky so everyone can read it. Bravo! You're truly an inspiration.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> As for the lack of knowledge ---it can be gained ---unless the people are stupid---yep stupid--as in unable to learn.
> 
> Look I am not a saint. I came from once a week nail jobs to in a few years to a food freezer---Alaska---short growing season--transportation issues--major differenct in food growing from NY.
> 
> ...


You had land, not everyone has that. Pretty hard to raise chickens in your apartment.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

kasilofhome said:


> As for the lack of knowledge ---it can be gained ---unless the people are stupid---yep stupid--as in unable to learn.
> 
> Look I am not a saint. I came from once a week nail jobs to in a few years to a food freezer---Alaska---short growing season--transportation issues--major differenct in food growing from NY.
> 
> ...



LOVE how positive you are- Hard work- and learning go a Lonnnnggg way....

Dislike how unpositive some are ....if you live in an apt- move to where you have a yard- I know my mom did- for those that want out bad enough- will find a way-


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Kasilofhome I think it is great that you worked so hard to keep yourself going and you were so resourceful. I am also glad you were fortunate enough to have your own land and a place to raise food. I am glad you had the government assistance to put food on your table and give you seeds to plant in your garden. I am glad you had family who chipped in and helped you out too. It makes me sad that you killed all of your chickens over fear of NAIS when it never came to be. Yours is a great story of what can be done in a certain sort of circumstances with the help of friends and family and the government.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Darlings I had just gotten the land--as in ninty days of land ownership when this all happened---so I had a major escrow and it was a monthly deal of will I be forclosed on--You did not walk the walk I did I did not Own--I was in the very early stages of pay for it.

It was very scary--do I try to make it work or do I accept governmental housing and walk away from it. Trust me governmental house would have come with HEAT, WATER, SEWER and Ele and a structure. In Alaska those few items are really enjoyed in the winter--it was Oct of 2003 --ice storms wind--Spend many days voluntering just for the shelter and heat bathroom and water. We, walked in the store to stay warm. I cooked food at a gas station micro hiding that I was not coffee we were heating up but oatmeal. It was a risk--fearing the child would be taken away due to the living contions--he went to school clean and feed--homework done by flash light or lantern. 

Yes, I had land--and the money went to keeping it. That is why we had to limit heating to just at night. The escrow amount I paid was LESS than what the taxpayers would pay for govenmental houseing. Three people 927 amonth income went to 705.99 land payment 100.12 amonth land tax. 336 amonth food stamps.

The family--was a 9 year old the husband had a brain anerisum and a messed up back. It was the church who check out the facts that I was trying and that the story was true and then the community came to us to help provide the help we need. The ladies taught me to sew clothes for a growing boy who needed special pants due to a medical condition.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

painterswife said:


> You had land, not everyone has that. Pretty hard to raise chickens in your apartment.


But every one has some thing, all the way down to a recycled jar used to make sprouts.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

There are also things such as urban gardens/community gardens which give people in apartments a chance to grow food. People will take a blighted empty lot and grow things on it - and people get free veggies in exchange for working in the garden. For every obstacle there's usually a way to overcome it, given enough hard work and effort.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

Becka03 said:


> LOVE how positive you are- Hard work- and learning go a Lonnnnggg way....
> 
> Dislike how unpositive some are ....if you live in an apt- move to where you have a yard- I know my mom did- for those that want out bad enough- will find a way-


Part of the problem is not only the person having the problem making excuses, others are making excuses for them. Instead of offering solutions.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I have had up to 200 baby chicks in my 640 square foot home for up to six weeks till the feathered. I was dusty, between the feather cover and the sand for the bedding. Just made a long box- and it was also our seating area.

I have birth goats in the house in a pen made from fouton frames and zipties and tarp floor with wood pellet bedding. 

Chickens that were kill were eaten by us, and others with the rest used to feed sled dogs. Waste not want not. 

I try to keep one tomato plant thur the winter. Lettue grows year round in a planter that would have held house plants. 

Keep and eye out for large parrot cages and a few adult laying chickens can be indoors.

it is work--it is a choice--it is scary but it is worth trying to do anything that you can for yourself. When government takes on doing for people what the could for themself they ---government harm by enabling people for generations to come. 

The solution is to encourage folk down on their luck and to teach them new skills. 

Solutions join the welfare and unemployment building with the home extenion and a vocational retraining. 

Have foodstamp people take a home ec. class in the home exstention wing. I quesion why the government would spend money advertising food stamps for everyone and not mention that food stamps can buy seeds and hunting and fishing stuff. I would have canning leasons and free jars for people to use to can on site with thier own food. and under that siduation with proper canning take a portion of the canned food to local food banks. The jars could be past out there and each family would be allowed say 12 jars out and no more till jars returned. Sorta like a libarary.

When teaching bread making on site the smell might encourage others to bake from scratch and those who lack an oven or other equipment could learn and bake there.

Spring time planting leasons--sewing leason--home cleaning on a dime with viniger and baking soda.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Becka03 said:


> ....if you live in an apt- move to where you have a yard- I know my mom did- for those that want out bad enough- will find a way-


Currently we live in an HOA (but just bought a home with a huge yard so we can grow a garden on our terms) - anyway, last spring we carved out a small piece in the hillside, not seen from the front street and planted some stuff. Technically we weren't supposed to do it and I don't advocate breaking the law, but we were determined to at least try. We never did get in trouble, though we were willing to till it under if anyone complained. We did keep our neighbors in veggies though which contributed to a good feeling by all.  We called it our secret garden. I hope the new owners of our house are able to plant there too, especially since we added about 8 months of compost!


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

And that is the bottom line. We are very lucky here, even now. Where there is a will, the way can be found. 
No one said it was easy- it's usually much harder- but it is possible. 

I have so much respect for those that really try. I would love to see their lives chronicled in the media because it's inspiring to me too. So that those who are willing see what they have the capability to do and come to have confidence in their own hands.

I had no where near a hard a road as the story above but I was fortunate to have an example in my parents of the importance of work and determination.

I took a small barn down and rebuilt it at my house because it was the way I could afford a barn. I ressembled it, patching as I went, and that was my sole construction education. I just did it. I said to myself if someone else could do it, I could too.

Since then I build a green house and a 12x24 hay shed for the same reasons- that's the way I could afford it. No classes- a used book maybe. 

There is some portion of the populace that will not succeed but we should not be spending so much time and effort trying to give them success. Just keep them going in case they ever choose to try for themselves. For the chance when they look at their own two hands and see the road to a better life.


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## Brighton (Apr 14, 2013)

kasilofhome said:


> Keep and eye out for large parrot cages and a few adult laying chickens can be indoors.


And when a person who is right on the edge financially gets evicted from their apartment for keeping a couple chickens in a parrot cage, well, I hope they have a car to live in or a homeless shelter nearby!


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Get silkies--use fancy name--people often have birds in apts. 

Oh well some can only find problem and excuess--some seek out options and solutions. Then some overcome hardships and some just slide down.

How about bunnies. 

http://www.petfinder.com/pet-adoption/other-pet-adoption/are-rabbits-good-pets/

<LI class=b_ans>*Images of Rabbits &as pets in NYC*

bing.com/images


Now, add a knife and a bathtub some spices and dinner is fresh.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

Quail might be better for some people. They look like pets and are very quiet if you don't have a male.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)




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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

There are many barriers to getting fresh food said:


> I can't say how it is everywhere but in Chicago , where I am from, several of the farmers markets accepted fs. I don't know how that worked, but there were signs saying they were accepted. And here in South Carolina I've seen them accepted at the produce stand I frequent and at some others I know they are accepted. The local butcher also accepts fs which surprised me but they sell good local meat and if I were a fs recipient I sure would look into the options you might have that wasn't Walmart .


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Brighton said:


> And when a person who is right on the edge financially gets evicted from their apartment for keeping a couple chickens in a parrot cage, well, I hope they have a car to live in or a homeless shelter nearby!


Always a quick answer for why not- and it's guaranteed to end right there. And there is the reason why nothing will change.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

where I want to said:


> Always a quick answer for why not- and it's guaranteed to end right there. And there is the reason why nothing will change.


It's more the common sense response than just a negative one. Losing your housing because you are trying to keep chickens in an apartment wouldn't really get you ahead would it? Yes there are always things people can do but not all of us can do the same things. Raising your own meat and eggs and vegetables in the city isn't feasible. For example the rabbit suggestion: you have to buy 2 rabbits and feed them and then the babies to get them to butchering size. It's cheaper to get marked down meat at the grocery than to raise your own that way.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

The problem with getting marked down meat again is being close to the store. People here must know when they mark down the meat. cause I know it's gone by the time I get there. I did get some chickens for a $ once, marked down with a coupon. Bu I know I can't count on it very often. maybe if I lived closer and could go more often.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Well, that sure is a surprize to me about the bunnies-people seem to be able to do it. From what a person explained to me--(had a friend with bunnies in NY) was that with so many resteraunts on every block they had plenty to feed for free where as a dog--was a problem --noizy and walking out doors and a hugh deposit. The bunnies were cheap easy to get and easy to live with. They can be litter box trained.

But always looking for a reason for being needy--well--just seems to have bred a new breed of American--"the I can't do it". 

Since every idea to get back up on ones feet is a bad idea to some ---do you guys have any idea that might work. Cause it seem that it is the work that is being avoided in lieu of a easy hand out. I believe most would rather work but that there are too many nae sayers Discurging them and leading them to the easy no sweat way of live. I believe that people want to make it. At least give it a try.

This fear of being kicked out---ask the landlord --Hey is it ok to have a few birds--I'd keep them in a cage and if the neighbors complain I would get rid of them right away===and then get a plan to do just that. Oh ps. they do butcher in NYC. 

Good lord --I would rather try and fail (and I have done that) than have know plan or hope to improve things.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I think the point is the landlord probably has in the lease that you cannot keep animals. Often not even a dog or cat. You violate the lease and you're out on the street. Not worth the risk in my opinion. 

There are smarter ways to survive in the city. Shopping in ethnic stores for one. Farmers markets have become trendy and prices are ridiculous. I don't shop at farmers markets as I can't afford it. 

When I married at age 17, I spent a great deal of time reading my Better Homes and Gardens and my mom's Betty Crocker cookbooks. I had some great successes and more than a few failures (which we ate anyway). Later I practically memorized the booklet that came with my canner before I planted my first garden. Then I discovered Extension Service bulletins and pamphlets which were free and I started collecting them. The information is out there. Today I have a collection of cookbooks that I've purchased at thrift shops, library re-sale shop and garage sales for $2 or less.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

Totally OT, but Quail always make me laugh. They look like the are constantly chasing a worm dangling right in front of them. How frustrating their little lives must be. LOL.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

It is all fine and good to think outside the box but the realities should be part of the conversation.

Raising chickens, rabbits or anything else inside does not save you money. It is economics of scale and the availability of free or almost free feed that does. Most of us who raise animals know that we can buy those items cheaper at the store.

Combine that with the possibility of losing your home by doing something like raising animals inside is not something to recommend to people living on the edge. There are far better ways to help them learn to better themselves.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

The issue is not the specific thing to try but to try something. And to try something else if the first doesn't try something else again.
It's the attitude of "this is reality and I can't change it unless soomeone else does it for me" that keeps people in a bad place. 
There will always be failures but the only sure guarantee of failure is not to try anything at all.
It will be true there are people who are paralysed emotionally or mentally, but it is not right to foster the ideas of dependency for all to save the feelings of those few.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

where I want to said:


> The issue is not the specific thing to try but to try something. And to try something else if the first doesn't try something else again.
> It's the attitude of "this is reality and I can't change it unless soomeone else does it for me" that keeps people in a bad place.
> There will always be failures but the only sure guarantee of failure is not to try anything at all.
> It will be true there are people who are paralysed emotionally or mentally, but it is not right to foster the ideas of dependency for all to save the feelings of those few.


No one is fostering of dependency. There are dealing with reality. We need a bit more of that and less pie in the sky.

You can see that on these forums everyday, people wanting to improve their lives through homesteading but not understanding the realities of what it takes in time, effort, infrastructure and money. I could point to a hundred posts where people jump in because someone here professes it can be done easily and months later all their stock is dead, their plants have died and they spent more money than they ever should have.

How about instead of telling people they can raise chickens in their apartment, we tell them the truth there are better ways to move forward.

Trying something for the sake of trying, with no direction is not a good use of time and money when both are in short supply.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

painterswife said:


> No one is fostering of dependency. There are dealing with reality. We need a bit more of that and less pie in the sky.
> 
> You can see that on these forums everyday, people wanting to improve their lives through homesteading but not understanding the realities of what it takes in time, effort, infrastructure and money. I could point to a hundred posts where people jump in because someone here professes it can be done easily and months later all their stock is dead, their plants have died and they spent more money than they ever should have.
> 
> ...


Then they will die exactly where they are because there is no guarantees in anything. 
You confuse offering experience with "telling someone what to do." And everyone of those who has found a good way for themselves has not been handed the instruction book on success. They tried and kept trying through all the failures.
That is one of the major problems- too many people waiting for someone to tell them the magic solution when there isn't one coupled with more than enough experts to tell them they can't.
The people who shoot holes in every throught end the process of thinking.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

where I want to said:


> Then they will die exactly where they are because there is no guarantees in anything.
> You confuse offering experience with "telling someone what to do." And everyone of those who has found a good way for themselves has not been handed the instruction book on success. They tried and kept trying through all the failures.
> That is one of the major problems- too many people waiting for someone to tell them the magic solution when there isn't one coupled with more than enough experts to tell them they can't.
> The people who shoot holes in every throught end the process of thinking.


This whole website is about learning how to do things. The problem is quite often we expound on how great it is to do something and forget to tell them the things that you failed at. When you worry that you might not be able to feed your family it is really important to know what actually saves money without wasting it. They can't afford the mistakes. They are not asking for magic solutions just real life examples of success and of failures. they need the whole story not just the good parts. They still move forward. many do it every day. They just need all the facts not just the ones some think are important.

If you think that is shooting holes in things then so be it. They just might learn something from my ideas of what will not work for them as well.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

I am one of the people who has improved my life using my own ideas and having many of those ideas fail. I have offered my ideas on how I did it and am still doing it. But truth is people have the idea now that life is supposed to be easy. You can't give positive concepts to people that don't want them.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I am sorry but I suceeded. I failed to lower the bar. I failed to give up. I kept learning from the locals who as children did have to have animials goats, chickens and sheep in there homes in the winter. 

I have friends today in Alaska who have lemon and orenges growing. Another with peaches and necturens, Simply because they planned and tried.

With the income we lived on I could not waste a penney---Some expressed sorrow that I killed hundreds of chickens when they were too old--Nais was really close so I did not increase and replace I waited till the birds were aged and the eggs would not be worth it and I killed them---It would have been a mistake to keep them as pets. Everything had to add to the success not hampter it. 

Having a reason to work --maintaining a work eithic matters. Because I was working and interacting with others I increased lead and contacts that benfited all parties.

There are lots of things I did--but someone in a city could not do some so I will not mention those ideas, Then the things that worked because I am female--will not help men so I will keep those ideas to myself, the ideas that required being able to have animal will die with me. The things that require phyical work that disabled can't do I will politily never reveal---

I will only give out one size fits all ideas---Call 1800-big brother and beg.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Absolutely no gold stars for you ladies!


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

snowcap said:


> The problem with getting marked down meat again is being close to the store. People here must know when they mark down the meat. cause I know it's gone by the time I get there. I did get some chickens for a $ once, marked down with a coupon. Bu I know I can't count on it very often. maybe if I lived closer and could go more often.


I don't know if you have a Kroger's or one of it's affiliates in your area but they have a section in their meat area that they put a lot of their marked down stuff into. You can usually find some of everything and at really good prices too. There is marked down stuff in there every day. Most other grocery stores mark theirs down early in the morning.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

No one is knocking what you did Kasilofhome we are just pointing out that what worked well for you might not work for others. And that you had help from several sources.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> I don't know if you have a Kroger's or one of it's affiliates in your area but they have a section in their meat area that they put a lot of their marked down stuff into. You can usually find some of everything and at really good prices too. There is marked down stuff in there every day. Most other grocery stores mark theirs down early in the morning.


If there were a place like that, I wouldn't say I live in food desert. But any one that does is lucky.
WE have to travel 60 miles one way to stock up.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Providing oportunities verses hopelessness. When I first had cancer--everyone told only the tales of people they lost to cancer--I already knew of my materal line life. What I needed--what I wanted to to hear who made it --how they made it ---Not give up.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

kasilofhome said:


> Providing oportunities verses hopelessness.


But not if you are satisfied with the status quo. Then your goal would be to dismiss everything that might mean change.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> Providing oportunities verses hopelessness. When I first had cancer--everyone told only the tales of people they lost to cancer--I already knew of my materal line life. What I needed--what I wanted to to hear who made it --how they made it ---Not give up.


Kasil- a quick book reccomendation. "David and Goliath" by Malcom Gladwell. An interesting study on what power really is and some great stories about people overcoming what others might see as insurmountable obstacles.


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

I just went grocery shopping... 65 spent at butcher that 21 meals worth of various meats ( steak roast ckn breast wings quarters stew meat pork chops and a ham) plus 3 lbs of bacon and a lb of deli cheese. I have 4 meats left from last months butcher trip so that's 25 dinners , leftovers r our usual lunch and fruit and yogurt and bisc and gravy our usual breakfast. The rest of my grocerys were about 70 . Including bread and baking supplies and dairy and lots of fresh produce! I only bought 2 cans of green beans and some tomato past and a can of cream of mushroom. Lunch meat and condiments and some spices I was out of. Anyways I have 60 left in my grocery budget which will be divided up the next 3 weeks for milk and produce to make dinners. I shop for all meat and non perishables in the first shopping trip of the month and then produce and dairy by the week according to what meals I have planned. ( I plan 24 meals per month) since I know at least 6 days will be leftovers or going to parents or we just decide to have pb and j s cuz it's easy lol. Anyway, I'm just showing that on 200 dollars a month ( for 2 people) can eat very well if you take the time to plan and cook for your family. I don't care that its not convenient , I don't think people should take that into consideration when it's their health on the line or the health of their children. But then I guess it's survival of the fittest... And some of the population on fs r caught in a viscous cycle... Going back generations. If they don't teach their kids about nutrition and taking their lives seriously they will stay where they are. It's sad, I'm glad I'm lucky to have had parents that took the time. I have young parents. 19 when they had me. Growing up we were poor. Both worked and both attended college ( they r teachers now) and my mother took the time from her hectic schedule to cook every night. And that's how I learned to shop the way I do also.


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

And you probably have a place to produce some of your food too..I'm sure she doesn't.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Yes, I am sure the each person - family has different level of items, assets, and starting skills.

People have better look at what they do have and what it can do.
It would be wise to learn NEW skills.
It really does help to lower certain standards of extra to meet the min. needed to live. 

Many times I and others have gone MIA from HT due to money--Money that needed to be spent elsewhere. 

I have a firm belief that THAT person might have some things that I have yet to EARN again. Yep---I am tired of laying down a pad of blankets to sleep on the floor --it is concrete ---so what=== I can dream of the day I build a bed--or I find a bed--and a truck to load it on too. I do not talk much about it cause there are so many things more important than a bed.

Might seem nice to have the woodstove I have--I learn to make do--but I really want an oven--but I only have primative ele so that would be fbefore the stove-oven. Manning the pump to lift the liquids to the upstair drain to the sewar is so time consuming but washing clothes in a mop bucket was a chore too that the machine replaced. 

Learning to accept that instant gradification leads to permanet problems--Learning to make do with what one has even if it is just a few house pots growing lettuce and tomatoes can make a difference and at the same time stop a pity party long enough to find hope---real hope based not on what some eles can provide for you but how you can work and develop a plan that will make a difference in bettering your life.

What is wrong with trying ---sometimes having one thing a person can see that they can do leads to other attemps.----

Caring about others is important but people can be "loved to death".


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

countrytime said:


> And you probably have a place to produce some of your food too..I'm sure she doesn't.


Seems like it would be better to let every one that wants list what worked, then any one that can use the information can pick and choose what might work for them. Way less discouraging.


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

countrytime said:


> And you probably have a place to produce some of your food too..I'm sure she doesn't.


At the moment the only thing I'm producing is chicken poop lol. But I do plan on slowly crossing things off my store lists. My chickens haven't layed anything yet but once they are up and running I'll hopefully never have to buy eggs again. Next is learning to can my own jams, no more smuckers!  and if I can actually get a garden running that would be heaven!


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

countrytime said:


> And you probably have a place to produce some of your food too..I'm sure she doesn't.


Why are you sure she doesn't? An assumption that if she did, she would be growing her own? Chances are pretty good she does have access to a community gaden or a vacant area. 
Over the years I have seen "progam" after "program" developed to lead to work and "getting off the rolls" successfully frustrated by people living on welfare. When times were good, there was always an excuse (most offered somewhere in this thread) as to why they missed the class or paid for bus ride or appointment or misused money given for a certain purpose or simply why they couldn't be expected to do it. When times were bad- well everyone is having a problem. 
The amount of effort needed to push people into showing up for a class or participating in a "ready to work program" just exhausted the funds. It takes constant bullying, cajoling, figuring things out for them.
A few always see that they use every opportunity offered but frankly most work to avoid anything that might lead anyone to expect a change in their behavior. 
Only one thing seems at all successful and that is paying someone in cash to do something they ought to see is good for them. Extra restricted to that use only. But there is not enough money in the world to pay someone to do everything they "should" do.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

There are food baskets for the holidays waiting for people to come and get them---16 in total that the student government put together. 

The school did think out of the box and created 

No-oven boxes
No-stove boxes
No cooking skill baskets
No fridge baskets
kid friendly boxes
and 
I can do it do it --not labled 

I got a call from the school--asked if we could come pick one up. ----My son bought turkey for this that he donated---I informed them that we were fine and thanked them for thinking of us..............

Well, they repeated the request for me to pick one up so that it would not be wasted as the persons they were intended for were not willing to come and get them. --they are waiting for them to be delivered. They had to be picked up today so could I at least use one.. I did drive the 20 miles each way--

Wow what wonderful boxes--I often mentioned at a place I vol. at that knowing what appliances a family has would be good to prevent waste while giving items that they could use.

I know a family older grandma--raising a two grandkids---She was thrilled---I thought of Lindamarie. 

I got a box with kid treats--preztels and cheese it and fruit cups --string cheese for appitizers---Jello mix--fruit jucie, canned fruit, corn, beans, soups, pasta, canned chicken, canned hamS, spam, tuna, canned beef stew, gravie mixs, canned potatoes, and instant potatoes, top ramin and cup asoup --canned chicken pot pie by marie callendar--(*never heard) of that.---and a few cans of chicken enclenata soup---never heard of that. I forgot JERKY too I am not kidding as she and I went thur the boxes I kept think how much my boy would have been delited with the treats. Mushrooms did not thrill him back then.

It was offered to me simply because people will not drive in to get them. I only thought of that family due to learning the challenges of grandparents raising children. 

But know that many churches put on major dinners where people can just show up and there is no cooking not clean up. They are more crowded---I have hosted some at our church. Could the "pre made dinners" meet the need without work. 

I also know that when money is tight so is gas so only the boxes going to school kid where the parent asked would be sent on the school bus. When money is tight pride is foolish---ask for the help you need and OFFER a skill or talent --to others--
watch someones dog, there is something---In getting involed with solving your problems you activly meet others NETWORK to improve.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

Kasilofhome....thanks for thinking of me!!!! I have been reading the posts on this thread but haven't replied. Food stamps is a tricky situation.

We are raising 3 dgds, with no food stamps, our groceries are about $200. Actually try to keep it to $150-$175. We have no refrigerator, we use a root cellar, spring house and just recently dh built me an old fashioned icebox. I can just about anything I get my hands on. Cooking is done on small propane stove or wood cook stove.

We eat well and all meals are from scratch home made. I'm lucky I had a grandma who showed me how to cook, stretch a dollar, grow a garden. I love to cook. We grow a large garden, I will be getting a jersey milk cow in spring, and chickens again. Right now have enough deer in yard to feed say several families. Hunting season starts Monday. I have never hunted but will be learning. That deer will help put meat in my pantry. 

Is it easy providing 3 meals a day for 5, not always. But its harder to drive 1 1/2 hours to get McDonalds and with what it would cost I could provide several meals at home. I have no microwave, and processed foods cost more. I have a very well stocked pantry and while I may not have modern kitchen conveniences, we live well and are happy.

You do what you can with the resources you have. If you sit there and say woe is me, you might not get anywhere. You improvise when needed, learn a new skill if willing. 

I think I lost my train of thought, that happens with dgds here. Ok , if this didn't make sense let me know. I'll get more coffee and do better.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

Less-is-more said:


> There are also things such as urban gardens/community gardens which give people in apartments a chance to grow food. People will take a blighted empty lot and grow things on it - and people get free veggies in exchange for working in the garden. For every obstacle there's usually a way to overcome it, given enough hard work and effort.


First a person has to want to overcome that obstacle and then put forth the hard work to get over said obstacle. Not everyone wants to do that. Some people want everything now, now, now. Heck, some even want it yesterday. Some people think they are owed it. I think we have become a society that looks down on manual labor/self sufficiency. Some people feel its beneath them to get their hands dirty digging in a garden. It takes work to plant those seeds, harvest those tomatoes and make sauce for pasta. Its so much easier to go to olive garden. Instant gratification.

I probably really need some more coffee and sleep.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

I have found it is easier to buy the cans of sause. Never could make it very well any way. My garden is only 1500 square foot. So I grow just enough tomatos for salads and sanwiches. The extras get frozen to put in soups.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

My grandma came from Sicily and she taught me to make sauce. Next to homemade sauce, the best place for a tomato is thickly sliced with a little salt and pepper fresh from the garden.


Btw snowcap....if I want to stock up its a 2 hour trip one way to get to a sams, WalMart, or large Kroger. We have a small Kroger about an hour away. Nearest aldis is at least 3 hours. I use a co-op when I can and am learning to shop on line. Our road is so bad its not worth come alonging my car out of the mud and dealing with the dgds car seats.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

lindamarie said:


> My grandma came from Sicily and she taught me to make sauce. Next to homemade sauce, the best place for a tomato is thickly sliced with a little salt and pepper fresh from the garden.
> 
> 
> Btw snowcap....if I want to stock up its a 2 hour trip one way to get to a sams, WalMart, or large Kroger. We have a small Kroger about an hour away. Nearest aldis is at least 3 hours. I use a co-op when I can and am learning to shop on line. Our road is so bad its not worth come alonging my car out of the mud and dealing with the dgds car seats.


We just got back from a stock up trip today. The store we went to had turkey free if you spent $150.00. We got a 20 pounder. alot of canned goods and other meat. We won't go again till spring because we won't be getting snow tires this year. We will have to buy a few things at the store near us to get though winter, but I hope it's not much cause they are expensive.


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