# Wood vs. plastic?



## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

I am old school. I don't like the guns with black plastic instead of wood. To me a gun is not just a tool, it's a work of art. Every piece of wood has it's own grain pattern, plastic not. What's the attraction of a black plastic gun?

I can't afford the really high grade guns with awesome wood and fancy engraving but have found some standard grades that are beautiful.. 

My favorite gun is a Browning Superposed Lightning 2 barrel set. It has a beautiful piece of wood for the stock even though it's just standard grade. There is some engraving on the receiver. I also appreciate that it's a well built machine. It will last several generations. 

My Browning A-bolt Medallion also has great wood and some engraving. Also very accurate.

The Remington 1100 is good looking too. Someone filled in the engraving on the receiver with gold. Decent wood. 

The 870 Wingmaster still works great, even after 45 years of hard use hunting. It's pretty beat up but very well made. 

I deviated a bit when I bought a handgun. Got a Smith and Wesson 586 nickle plated. I put on Houag grips instead of the wood ones it came with because they fit my hand better. A great gun to shoot.

It's too bad they all were lost in a horrible boating accident. Now I have to start over. Still don't get why someone would want a gun made of plastic.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

I have both, everything from custom single shots with hand checkering and AAA exhibition grade wood to plastic.

They both have their place. For anything that will face hard use in inclement weather, and must maintain its zero, I'll take a synthetic stock and a durable finish, because in those instances I'm using it as a tool. Aesthetics are either a distant second or not even a consideration. 

Chuck


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

for rifles , synthetic , stocks do not warp , or change with humidity , no grain to be different 

some guns come with very cheap stocks that flex , but a good synthetic stock is not a bad thing 

in pistols , it makes for lighter slimmer guns that hold more rounds in the same space 

it is also a huge manufacturing cost thing , machine time is one of the major costs in manufacturing , any hand fitting is another major cost 

the polymer pistols need assembly and they assemble very quickly at that with a minimum of parts a few pins hold it all together and you have a gun that works out the factory door , and does it in rain , snow , sleet or dark of night 

if your into art guns they make those also , but you pay for the labor we are at a time where you can have anything you want it you have the funds for it , from a plastic stocked harvest tool that you won't cry about getting scratched going through the brier to the finest English walnut.

it has really always been somewhat like this , plenty of companies made plane Jane maple stocked guns , poly is the new lower cost wood , you can stamp out injected molded stocks fast and accurate faster than a row of duplicators can make maple stocks , and you can do it with less waste


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Nimrod said:


> I am old school. I don't like the guns with black plastic instead of wood. To me a gun is not just a tool, it's a work of art. Every piece of wood has it's own grain pattern, plastic not. What's the attraction of a black plastic gun?
> 
> I can't afford the really high grade guns with awesome wood and fancy engraving but have found some standard grades that are beautiful..
> 
> ...


I want to show due respect here, so please don't think I'm trying to be a wise guy...

You contradict yourself right away!
Work of 'Art', but them list your 'Tools', work a day, 'earn their keep' firearms...

Browning A bolt, one of the finest field firearms ever made,
As close to 'Art' as a working firearm can be and still be reasonable priced and functional...

Rem 870, if it's got a steel reciever, it's one of the most functional shotguns ever made, bar none.
Everything about that shotgun is functional, from the way it fits the user to the materials it's made out of, to the functional longjevity of the firearm.

'Art' pieces are just that, something to be hung on the wall and looked at,
Art is not a tool in any way, shape or form.

You can 'Dress Up' something functional, but it's still not art,
You can turn a functional item into a work of art, but it's no longer a functional work a day item.

Form follows function, too many accessories and the function starts to suffer.
Take an AR-15 for example,
Too many gadgets and gimmics, accessories and crap turn it into something that is too heavy to pack around regularly,
It snags on EVERYTHING,
And you pump so much money into it you are scared to pack it around anymore.

Top end collectors rarely, if ever, fire those 'Works Of Art' although they are functioning firearms.
They are just too expensive to go out beating the brush with.

While the old standbys, the colt revolver, military rifles like the '03 Springfield and '98 Mauser got the crap used out of them, and millions are still in use to this day...
They were NOT 'Pretty' but they have a FUNCTIONAL astetic that is timeless, and often mistaken for 'Art',

Art is transient, while functional firearms are timeless.
Make no mistake, for the working man, tools have a beauty all their own that an 'Art' collector will never understand.

For my 'Astetic' streak, I 'Accumulate' (not a 'Collection' since it has no particular direction or limitations) brass frame muzzle loaders.
I just love to look at brass frames, I like the feel, and I give them a home when I can afford to pick one up when it crosses my path.

For my 'Working' firearms,
Form follows function, if a synthetic stock will make the firearm more accurate (doesn't swell, shrink, warp like wood) then I use synthetics.

If steel makes my long range rifles more accurate, then steel it will be.

If aluminum and 'Plastic' makes my walking rifles lighter weight and more resistant to corrosion, then 'Plastic' and aluminum it is.

I don't mistake 'Art' for function, or the other way around...

This is just personal opinion here,
But I think the Browning A bolt is a WONDERFUL working firearm.
Materials, fit, finish, function are all top notch without driving the price out of reach,
An excellent choice for anyone that actually HUNTS with their firearms.

Rem 870 has probably put more game on the table than any other single type/brand of shotgun.
The recent tendency towards 'Black' Semi-auto shotguns baffles me entirely.
They are MUCH more expensive than the old stand by Rem 870/wingmaster,
Not as reliable, and don't hold the value a good old Rem 870 does (simply because the 870 is as reliable as a hammer and accurate as anything on the market).

When I was a kid growing up in fairly uninhabited woods,
I used to guide bird hunters from the city,
I never understood why they showed up with $5,000 to $15,000 guns, and left them in a gun safe locked in the truck while they hunted with something less expensive,
Of if they did get the firearm out of the camp, then they were always afraid of a scratch or ding...
All the while I'm hunting with an 870 to knock down the crippled birds when they screw up...

I'm aware my shooting skills were sharpened because I hunted year around,
But why drag something worth more than the house I grew up in out to the field and NOT use it?
Just bragging rights I guess, because I still see it and I still don't know...


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I Also like wood stocks. The myth of wood stocks warping is total poppy cock. Good quality wood with a oil base or other finish holds it shape just as well as Tupper wear does in high heat.

I do admit to having the Tupper wear stocks on 4 rifles, 2 Remington 700 Muzzle loaders because that is how they were sold new and I don't have the cash to buy a nice wood stock for them.

A Remington 870 slugger again as they is how they were factory built and sold not replaced again due to cash flow problems.

And a Savage 93F 22 Mag. once again factory set up and sold that way.

Really like nice wood and some times was what sold me on that rifle/shot gun.

Remington 700 300 win mag.



Remington 700 7mm 08



Ruger 77 22lr.



Ruger 77 220 swift.



Beretta silver snipe's 20 & 12



T/C plains rifle 50 cal.



Nothing like the feel of good solid wood against your cheek.

 Al


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

I've got several plastic stocked weapons and they are fine. I'm not going to get rid of them or quit using them as they are darned nice weapons, but these days I prefer a pretty wood stocked gun, particularly when it comes to bolt action rifles. Life is too short yo hunt with an ugly gun. 

The only weapon I would strongly advise going plastic and stainless on would be a muzzle loader, as they tend to be dirty and corrosive.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

I picked up a Ruger M77 MkII in .223 with just spactacular wood,
Ruger always seems to have good wood, but this was just such nice wood on a used rifle I just had to pick it up.

You have to watch your wood if it ever goes in for service!
I won a Kregoff that had AAA wood, safety/barrel selector failed,
Sent it in and got common wood back.
I was so PO'ed! I'm still mad about it 25 years later...

Remington did the same thing with an 1100 sent in for service I won at a DU fundraser.

Ruger put NEW wood on a friends Mini 14 that went in for service.
It was a 'Behind The Truck Seat' rifle, beat to crap,
It came back looking brand new, NO CHARGE is what got me!
When Bill Ruger was still alive, he knew how to treat a customers.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Alley,
Nice portable bench in the pictures.
Did you make that or is it something I can order somewhere?

Wood does warp, military and civilian testing proves it to a point its not really a debate anymore.

Better rifles use better wood,
A dense wood doesn't warp like say, Beech wood on cheap rifles does.
Modern finishes reduce the issues even more,
But OLD GROWTH wood to make ultra fine grade stocks out of is getting pretty scarce, and expensive!
Synthetics are virtually maintinance free, and they don't react with temp/humidity,
But the bottom line is cost, customers WANT synthetics, and synthetics have a controlled cost, so the companies can make a controlled profit margin.
L
I also agree, the FEEL of fine wood is something I enjoy.
I know it's irrational, but I'm human and good wood just makes me smile!

I was also SQUARELY in the 'NO STAINLESS STEEL' camp when stainless first became popular,
But after owning several, the maintinance is so much easier its not funny.
No rust ever is a big deal for someone that actually uses the firearm in the weather a bunch, or stores the firearm in less than ideal circumstances...
(Like under a truck seat, in a tool box, ect. WORKING FIREARMS)

Long barrel AR's of mine all have floating barrel front hand guards in aluminum.
Not attractive, not style, simply ugly function, but I do dislike aluminum less than plastic.
A moving plastic fore grip is my least favorite thing... But that's in my head, nothing to it for others with full floating fore ends that accept plastic grips.


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

Prefer wood as long as you can keep it relatively protected and well maintained. We have several antique guns with wood stocks that have retained their integrity perfectly despite generations in the woods. The only wood stock I recall "failing" was a newer gun from the 70's that the stock allegedly "split" when my brother was trying to switch stocks. Since my brother is impatient and believed that if you force things, the better, so I have no doubt the combination of him not knowing what to do and his oafishness lled to him busting the thing and then pretendingi t failed.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Jeep, 
There is nothing that says that a working tool can't be a work of art too. I don't use my best guns to go brush busting for grouse or sitting in the blind in a driving rain storm. I do take them to the range and shoot them and I take them with when I help teach a firearms safety class. The kids get to handle them. None of my guns are pristine. They don't sit in the gun safe.

Alley, 
Very nice guns. Too bad about the boating accident.

I once sold an 870 TB trap gun with beautiful wood. I still regret that but I needed the money. 

I do own a Remington 7400 with a plastic stock. Decided I needed a rifle for deer and didn't have much money. I don't like it. Wood is much warmer to hang onto in the cold.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Nimrod,
You and I have different definitions of 'Art'.

The very term 'Art Piece' is singular, a 'One Of' expression of the artist that can't be reproduced.
You don't drag the Mona Lisa to the woods...

A repeatable, often mass produced piece is hardly 'Art' since its by definition mass produced.
I agree some are nicer than others, better materials, better fit & finish,
But hardly 'Art'.

Its funny, I've had this conversation several times before!
Only about firearms and finely built cars...
No one discusses the artistic attributes of keys, toasters, ect.
Must be a 'Man' thing since I've not known one woman to get into those conversations...

My example would be,
Would you argue any other utilitarian tool to be 'Art'?
Would a shovel with a fine walnut handle and blued blade, maybe a little engraving on the blade be an 'Art Piece', or just a fancy, high grade shovel?

I once visited an upscale firearms auction, the cheapest piece had 1/2 Million dollar reserve on it...
None of those firearms had EVER been fired other than proof testing at the manufacturer, or so the paperwork said...
A two shot gun, 4 barrel case set sold for $2.5 Million.

They were as close to 'Perfect' in fit, finish, and ornately inlaied/engraved,
In a case that was nicer than any furnature than I've ever personally seen,
With solid gold corner protectors of all things...

They were probably 'Art' since they will be hung on a wall and displayed,
BUT,
They CAN be reproduced by a craftsman with sufficient skills.

I'm not sure anything utilitarian was ever intended to be 'Art'.
If its utilitarian, there can be exceptional examples of it, but is it 'Art'?

I'm asking since I'm not an art major or even an art student...


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

I'm the other way around I see them as tools to be used not art to be admired.

A pretty firearm is nice but if you use it the odds are its going to get scratched. I have a friend who has a nice looking truck but because its so nice he's almost afraid to carry anything with it. We have a running joke when ever he's has it on a work site, every time we pick up something hard to carry everyone yells "Watch out for the truck!"


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

watcher said:


> I'm the other way around I see them as tools to be used not art to be admired.
> 
> A pretty firearm is nice but if you use it the odds are its going to get scratched. I have a friend who has a nice looking truck but because its so nice he's almost afraid to carry anything with it. We have a running joke when ever he's has it on a work site, every time we pick up something hard to carry everyone yells "Watch out for the truck!"


I think it is a bit of a tradeoff with some guns. My family has this German double barrel 16 gauge (though you can shoot 12 gauge from one barrel) from pre-WW1 that was liberated by a relative in WWII. We were going to have it cleaned up but the guy refused to do it because he said it would destroy thousands in value off the gun. He offered to buy it in its as was condition for $4K I think it was and that was couple decades ago when I was a kid. It has some incredible designs in the silverwork. It is hard to see because of the tarnish which was why we wanted it cleaned up. We still use it from time to time. It could be a museum/collectors piece I suppose, and a tool as well. We try not to take it out when the weather is bad, but make sure we keep it cleaned and fire it some every now and then just to keep it all in good working order. I'd post a pix but it is in my brother's gunsafe at the moment to keep some of my less than trustworthy relatives from swiping and pawning it.


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Guys,
Your sort of talking past each other! Because your both right, I think I hurry to ad. There really are times when a tool can be say handsome as it works well and is easy to use, without any thing being fancy. When I get something better I always worry I am going to screw it up.
And there are beautiful elegant works of art that deserve to shown off!
I don't make enough to do more than admire them from afar and have a number of well to do friends who have done me the honor to let me shoot some of there works of art on the range.
I will always remember borrowing ( actually being talked into) an Absolutely beautiful wood, metal, deep rust blue, engraving, balance, length and fit European 28 ga side by side for a round of skeet including the shells, broke 22 or average for me, that really was a work of art 20 years ago he paid 38,000 for it I'm very glad he didn't tell me till after it was back in his hands. With a 12 ga. Usually my extremely plain LaFever side by side. To call it battered is to be kind. its fit is still good and it all works very well. That cost $120, 25 years ago. So I understand both sides really!
Dutch


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

$38,000!!!
I can find a LOT better things to do with $38,000 rather than it sitting in a gun safe!

I won a $15,000 skeet gun about 15 years ago,
It's what paid for my land.
I wanted 46 Acres more than I wanted a skeet gun I was afraid to take out of the gun safe but about once a year.

Firearms are just tops to me, if I'm afraid to USE it, then its not serving me.


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## Silvercreek Farmer (Oct 13, 2005)

I like wood but I also like the fact that plastic has made it possible for a young (or old)man to buy a 1 moa rifle for around $300-$400.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

Silvercreek Farmer said:


> I like wood but I also like the fact that plastic has made it possible for a young (or old)man to buy a 1 moa rifle for around $300-$400.


I think that plus the combination of CNC machinery and much better ammo. 

There's an awful lot of "off the rack rifles" turning in accuracy that was only capable of hand built rifles not too long ago. Plus there's a number of hunters that look at the rifle/shotgun as strictly a tool to enjoy the sport, so in those cases a "soulless" "plastic" stock makes sense. Kind of the same way I view a defensive pistol. 

Chuck


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

I swing from both sides of this plate.

There is a place in my heart and my safe for utilitarian and for "art".

Glad I don't have to choose just one or the other.


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