# Grass finished or corn finished, Which do you like?



## RW kansas hogs (Nov 19, 2010)

I'm not sure if this has been talked about on here but i couldnt find much in the archives about it. 
Which do you prefer and why? grass finished or corn finished.

We have 3 holstien steers thar we moved to a rented 4 acre pasture that hasnt been used in over 5 years (lots of grass), 2 of the steers are 9 months old and the 3rd is going on 4 months old. 
Me and my father went in togther on these steers so to speak, He paid for them and I had to bottle feed them, Wean them etc etc and then my family gets a steer for the freezer. 
The man is tight wad, plain and simple :bdh:. After we moved the steers i mentioned that we could just take them to the meat locker in the fall, And my lord he got all puffy on me :flame:, Blah blah blah about grass finished beef. I said well the grass is free so you dont have to pay to finish them off on corn you tight wad. Well that ened our day together rather fast lol :heh:. 
But any how whats the difference between the two? 

Thanks people Tim


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Been done to death, but here's my .02

Grain grain grain. Especially with Holsteins. They don't get "grass fat" like a beef steer will.


----------



## Gopher (Jul 19, 2011)

I would not grain feed because there are no grain farmers near me. So for me to buy grain, I would have to go 40 miles to a feed mill and buy 50 lb. bag of kernnel corn for $12. Cracked corn even more. I am doing grass fed and finished because the best beef I have ever had was a grass fed jersey/holstein steer. But that animal was on good pasture with good soil. I even ate it w/o Heinz 57 sauce. But, imo, not all pasture is the same. My pasture is slowly improving with the rotational grazing and the multi species grazing. Just like most things in life, do what you think is best based on your situation and where you live. I know that I would never get into a "grass fed - grain fed" discussion with my father in law because he has grain fed animals from the sale barn all of his life. That is his paradigm and production model. He does it because he thinks it is right and every other way is wrong. 

My advice to you is to grain them if you can. Putting them on 4 acres and then taking them to the locker is not good pasture or animal management and I think you will be dissapointed in the steaks and roasts. Good grassfed takes time and management of the soil, pasture, and animals.


----------



## lakeportfarms (Apr 23, 2009)

With three Holstein steers on 4 acres you'll be lucky if you have enough forage to keep them fed this summer, much less in the kind of condition you'll need to enjoy any steaks from.

IF you manage the pasture you might be able to make full use of it, but don't forget what goes in the front end also comes out the back end, and they won't eat any grass around those spots for some time. By the end of the summer, you'll have a lot areas grazed to dirt, and 2 foot high clumps that they won't touch.


----------



## Maria (Apr 24, 2003)

Grass fed produces meat with better ratios of omega 3 fatty acids and is much better for you. There's a lot more involved that's mentioned in the article below, but that's the decider for me. 

Health Benefits of Grass Fed Beef

We only feed our cattle and sheep grass, hay and minerals and they do fine. They taste great and make store bought meat seem like tasteless mush.


----------



## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

We had more pasture than you, so we were able to feed grass or hay until about the last 6 weeks. For the last 6 weeks, we added a good sized helping of cracked corn, soybean meal, to his daily diet, along with grass. 

So I would call ours "grain finished, grass raised" beef. He was, bar none, the BEST beef we ever ate. He got plenty of exercise, was a beef breed though, so meat had the fat worked thru all the meat fibers in all cuts.

Except for cutting meat off the bones, nothing from him needed a sharp knife to cut it for eating. Extremely flavorful, which was helped by hanging the carcass longer than usual. He hung 19 days if I remember right. Had to pay extra for that, but WORTH it!

My mother directed the grain feeding, hanging extra time, and taught me a lot with the great results. I was the "barn person" who fed as directed, took care of him. He was processed at almost 2 years, with that grass diet, probably 900# on the hoof. Family steer, not doing commercial or quantities of animals. She later said we should have sold him for top grade resturaunt beef, get the big bucks per pound. He sure was good eating.


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

If you have access to enough grass and/or hay to do it, then grass fed beef is the way to go. Much healthier.

Grass fed beef that is poorly done is not good, though. It can be too lean to cook by conventional methods and may have a stronger taste than the store-bought (grain fed) beef you're used to.

Grass fed beef needs a lot of grass, water, minerals and time to be at it's best. Feedlots can feed crimped corn 24/7 and finish a steer in 17 months. A grass fed steer isn't at his best for another 10 months or so.

But if you can do it, you'll never go back to the commodity beef they sell in stores.


----------



## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

I'm with the folks that say grass is better but only if you have good grass. I think it's important to remember you aren't raising cattle, you're growing grass. Good high quality grass makes good high quality beef. Weeds and dried up turf makes for tough foul flavored beef.

I have access to lot and LOTS of stale bread which I give to a steer getting ready for the freezer. About 4-5 weeks of 5lbs of bread a day plus all the grass he can eat makes for fantastic beef. If my pasture was as nice as I'd like it to be (give it time, give it time) I'd likely skip the bread.

ETA: I'm pretty new at this and have only slaughtered two of my own so far. One was straight grass and the other got some bread. The straight grass steer wasn't bad, but had a lot less fat.


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

InvalidID said:


> I have access to lot and LOTS of stale bread which I give to a steer getting ready for the freezer. About 4-5 weeks of 5lbs of bread a day plus all the grass he can eat makes for fantastic beef. If my pasture was as nice as I'd like it to be (give it time, give it time) I'd likely skip the bread.
> 
> E


This would not be "grass fed". Bread is grain. I would call this "grass finished", and agree it makes for the very best of beef. Ground cob corn at about 5 gallons a day and all the grass/hay they can eat for the last 60 to 90 days makes for the very best of beef.

I've had it all, from straight grass, to straight grain fed and nothing holds a candle to beef fed this way.


----------



## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

tinknal said:


> This would not be "grass fed". Bread is grain. I would call this "grass finished", and agree it makes for the very best of beef. Ground cob corn at about 5 gallons a day and all the grass/hay they can eat for the last 60 to 90 days makes for the very best of beef.
> 
> I've had it all, from straight grass, to straight grain fed and nothing holds a candle to beef fed this way.


 I was thinking grass fed and bread finished. Either way it's really good beef and I'd recommend anyone that can finish this way try it. I don't know why but I think the bread finishes better than straight grain. Maybe it makes more fat? Maybe it adds a different flavor? I dunno, but it's GOOD.


----------



## RW kansas hogs (Nov 19, 2010)

Thanks everybody for the information and helpfull advise, We plan on spilting the pasture in half this wknd and do some rotational grazing, We have also decided to feed them a few pounds of corn/oats every day to keep them people freindly. Plus i plan on putting my goats down there as well to help with any weed problems. 

We are kicking around the idea of running a few hogs in the pasture in early fall to clean up after the cows. They will be rotated as well untill there job is done.


----------



## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

InvalidID said:


> I was thinking grass fed and bread finished. Either way it's really good beef and I'd recommend anyone that can finish this way try it. I don't know why but I think the bread finishes better than straight grain. Maybe it makes more fat? Maybe it adds a different flavor? I dunno, but it's GOOD.


I think because it`s kinda like getting your hamburger and bun , all in one. :hysterical: Hehe lol , sorry couldn`t help myself. ound: > Thanks Marc


----------



## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

springvalley said:


> I think because it`s kinda like getting your hamburger and bun , all in one. :hysterical: Hehe lol , sorry couldn`t help myself. ound: > Thanks Marc


 No worries. I always joke that I'm going to finish the turkeys on gravy...


----------



## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

I get the both of both worlds when finishing. I usually put them out grass and forget about em' until the freezer starts getting low or I feel like they're 600-700lbs. Then, I corral them and gradually work them on to full grain. Once I start to see them put some fat cover on their ribs I schedule and appt. with the butcher.

It does take a little longer this way but it's cheaper if you have ample grass.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

This is a hot topic. People get very emotional over their beliefs.
Grass fed is leaner and therefore dryer and in my experience tougher. Grass fed, having less fat is healthier. Trimming the fat off meat and staying off the gravy is healthier, too.
A few years ago, Kroger tried grass fed beef. It had been in the news as the healthy choice, etc. They sold a lot of it, for a while. Their customer tracking card (Value Card) showed that out of the thousands upon thousands of sales, no one bought their grass fed beef twice. Sounds like people were willing to try it, but not willing to buy it again. 
You should try it for yourself, but a whole steer is a lot for a sample.
Home raised beef is good. Perhaps in some cases, grass fed is better than cheap, old, store bought grain fed beef, perhaps.

All that aside, you will blow through that tiny pasture in about 6 weeks. Recently, hay prices have shot up. So, you will be looking for more pasture, buying lots of hay or supplementing the pasture with lots of grain. Don't forget they need a mineral block and lots of water.

Everyone that has eaten grass fed beef has an opinion. Some day, you will too.


----------



## mitchell3006 (Apr 1, 2010)

If you are worried about the manure problem feed them a little whole grain every day or so. Put a few chickens in the pasture with them and they will scatter the piles for you to get the grain. The chickens will also help to keep down some bugs. American games are probably the best variety to use for this since they can fly well to escape predators and will "naturalize" easily.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

mitchell3006 said:


> If you are worried about the manure problem feed them a little whole grain every day or so. Put a few chickens in the pasture with them and they will scatter the piles for you to get the grain. The chickens will also help to keep down some bugs. American games are probably the best variety to use for this since they can fly well to escape predators and will "naturalize" easily.


Great idea for equalizing the fertization of your field. However, by spreading it around, you just increase the size of the circle that the cattle won't eat.


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

For me it's totally about health. I've seen people suffering and dying in my work (ccu nurse) with heart disease for many years now. 

Nature designed cows to eat grass. They are healthier and we are healthier when we eat them if they eat as nature intended. Their meat has a very unhealthy (for us) fatty acid profile if they are fed grain. 

We crave sugar salt and fat. It used to serve a survival purpose. Now that we can pretty much eat what we want it is killing us. Of course people will choose fatty beef over lean. Just like most will choose sweets over fruit. We crave these things. Plus this is what americans are used to. But americans are keeling over by the millions with heart disease. 

We have brains and discernment to look at the facts and choose to do what is healthy, to learn to "step out of the box" and learn new ways of doing things. Most of what we do is just out of habit anyway and staying stuck in the same rut is comfortable for most people.


----------



## sassafras manor (Dec 5, 2009)

I would have to disagree. We bring our cattle up to our "barn pasture" in the winter thru early spring and we allow our laying hen flock to free-range in the same pasture and they do an awesome job spreading the manure piles. Since they spread the piles so well, we do not need to drag that pasture and have a nice green lush pasture that our catle have kept eaten down uniformly. There are no circles or areas of tall grass that the cattle will not eat and I atribute that entirely to the fact that we do run our chickens with the cattle.


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Cliff said:


> F
> 
> We have brains and discernment to look at the facts and choose to do what is healthy, to learn to "step out of the box" and learn new ways of doing things. Most of what we do is just out of habit anyway and staying stuck in the same rut is comfortable for most people.


Passive aggressive much?


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

tinknal said:


> Passive aggressive much?


It wasn't intended that way at all. I'm not afraid to say what I think, and I try to be nice. Sorry if it came across that way.


----------



## CoachB (Aug 30, 2011)

Cliff said:


> Nature designed cows to eat grass. They are healthier and we are healthier when we eat them if they eat as nature intended. Their meat has a very unhealthy (for us) fatty acid profile if they are fed grain.
> 
> We crave sugar salt and fat. It used to serve a survival purpose. Now that we can pretty much eat what we want it is killing us. Of course people will choose fatty beef over lean. Just like most will choose sweets over fruit. We crave these things. Plus this is what americans are used to. But americans are keeling over by the millions with heart disease.


My brain totally agrees with all of this, its my taste buds that I'm worried about.:ashamed:


----------



## Peggy (Feb 14, 2010)

Grass fed!!! do the research! Cow should not be fed corn. I have both cow fed and grass fed beef in my freezer. I notice the grass fed taste better.


----------



## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Why should they not eat corn? Fill me in, summary please. Mycotoxins???


----------



## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

Do not say do your research GIVE US A LINK....and I hope your link is not connected to PETA






Peggy said:


> Grass fed!!! do the research! Cow should not be fed corn. I have both cow fed and grass fed beef in my freezer. I notice the grass fed taste better.


----------



## Peggy (Feb 14, 2010)

cow are ruminants which means their system is desined to eat grass. pryor to wwII cows were fed only grass. cows today are fed corn to fatten them up sooner and get them to the slaugher house faster. most people seem to think cows are to eat only corn. the sooner the cow is slaughered the sooner the farmer will make money on the beef. that true with any animal raised for meat but it doesnt mean the meat is better for us or that the animal is healthly.


----------



## Peggy (Feb 14, 2010)

myersfarm said:


> Do not say do your research GIVE US A LINK....and I hope your link is not connected to PETA


NO I AM NOT CONNECTED WITH PETA. and I am not going to post a link. One link does not prove much. research is not always with the internet. read books talk to people.


----------



## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

First of all, I would never butcher a yearling Holsteins. I suspect you are going to be disappointed in what you get.

I wouldn't butcher a Holstein until at least 2 1/2 years and preferably 3 years of age. They grow slow and all they are growing for the first 2 years is an enormous skeleton. They don't put on meat until after their 2nd birthday. However, on the plus side, I consider it to be the finest meat, very fine textured and great flavor.

You can raise some really fat slick cows on excellent pasture. You won't get decent meat from poor quality pasture.

All I can tell you is how I do it, and that I get meat that is absolutely to die for.

My cattle are raised on irrigated pasture and get grain every day of their lives. Grass hay plus a flake of quality alfalfa in the winter when there is no pasture. I do not feed a lot of grain. Perhaps a cup for the calf and they are getting about a pound of grain a day by the time they are butchered.

I want my table beef putting on fat every day of it's life. That will get you good marbling. If you grain only the last 30 days, you will get layers of fat on the outside of the muscle. Plus, a bit of grain every day keeps them tame and calm and coming whenever they are called.

I normally butcher late in the fall of their yearling year, but those are beef calves and not dairy calves. So they would be about 22 months old.


----------



## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

[[[[......I don't know why but I think the bread finishes better than straight grain. ....]]]]]

Most likely because animals digest cooked grains more efficiently than raw grains. I always feed my pigs hot mash because they will utilize it better and I get better gains for the same amount of feed.

I've never steamed grain for the cattle though. Actually, I've never fed wheat to cattle, but the bread sounds like a good idea. Unfortunately, the day old bakery here got the great idea to bump up the price of their day old bread, and the last time I was in, all they gave me was a shopping cart of fast food hamburger buns. My livestock wouldn't even eat them, so I haven't been back.

I feed dry COB when I feed grain. Depending on what I am feeding, I add a bit of Calf Manna. (I suspect just because I like the smell of it so much)


----------



## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

OK since most books are online.....WHAT BOOKS 




Peggy said:


> NO I AM NOT CONNECTED WITH PETA. and I am not going to post a link. One link does not prove much. research is not always with the internet. read books talk to people.


----------



## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Corn is a grass, the kernal is the seeds...


----------



## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Prior to WW2 cows were only fed grass?


----------



## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Im thinking he meant finishing in feedlots is a fairly new thing. People have always grained their cattle, but not to the industrial level we do today.

So far as research meyersfarm, if you're truly interested, just start with Google. "Grain fed grass fed beef" and see what you get. Specifically look into things like "omega 6 3 fat comparison grain grass beef" (There. All you have to do is copy my search words into a Google window)


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

myersfarm said:


> OK since most books are online.....WHAT BOOKS


If you're really interested from a health standpoint and not just trying to prove a point there's information out there about grass fed beef and dairy and how it differs from grain fed. I've read many things over the years about it but couldn't point you exactly to where the information is at this time.

From a common sense standpoint for me, it helps to try and remember how we and animals evolved to eat. Sticking as close as we can to that is always going to work best for our bodies. It's so obvious to me from my work that what we are doing now is not working. People are so sick and fat. Everyone has heart disease. It's so discouraging. I know fatty meat isn't the only cause of people being sick but it's right up there with sugar and people not moving.


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

CoachB said:


> My brain totally agrees with all of this, its my taste buds that I'm worried about.:ashamed:


Lol I know what you mean. Your tastes do change though. Grain fed beef tastes greasy with not much flavor when you get used to grass fed. It's all in what you're used to I guess.


----------



## Gabriel (Dec 2, 2008)

Cliff said:


> If you're really interested from a health standpoint and not just trying to prove a point there's information out there about grass fed beef and dairy and how it differs from grain fed. I've read many things over the years about it but couldn't point you exactly to where the information is at this time.


Here ya go.

I just read all of page one... seems like there's some disgruntled beef eaters out there. Jo Robinson, from the link I gave above, also sums up the "problem" with grass fed beef very well, I think.


> The Art and Science of Grassfarming. Raising animals on pasture requires more knowledge and skill than sending them to a feedlot. For example, in order for grass-fed beef to be succulent and tender, the cattle need to forage on high-quality grasses and legumes, especially in the months prior to slaughter. Providing this nutritious and natural diet requires healthy soil and careful pasture management so that the plants are maintained at an optimal stage of growth. Because high-quality pasture is the key to high-quality animal products, many pasture-based ranchers refer to themselves as "grassfarmers" rather than &#8220;ranchers.&#8221; They raise great grass; the animals do all the rest.


 Found here. The reality is that most producers of grass fed not only don't know how to produce great beef, they don't know that there is anything to know!


----------



## Maria (Apr 24, 2003)

This is our 6 year old bull after 4 years of grass and hay only.










Maybe it's just a Lowline thing, but he's as fat as a hippopotamus. I imagine his meat is fully marbled- and his calves that we've butchered aren't scrawny either. The meat is fine. The last heifer we butchered at a year and a half old had slabs and slabs of fat in her abdominal cavity, and the marbled meat is almost too fatty for my taste. She never tasted grain her whole life.

My cattle don't need grain to get roly-poly fat. And from what I've read, it's better for them to eat only grass. Too much grain does something bad to their rumens... but I can't remember the details. Certainly mine have stayed completely healthy on a grass/hay diet. I only have a few cattle, though, so I can't speak from a lot of experience. It could be that I just have outstanding individuals.


----------



## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Maria said:


> This is our 6 year old bull after 4 years of grass and hay only.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 HE looks delicious!


----------



## Maria (Apr 24, 2003)

Doesn't he though?  We are tempted to get a Lowline heifer just to see if higher percentage of Lowline is even tastier. They are awfully expensive right now, though. We didn't have to pay much for this guy- he's only a 3/4 and beef prices weren't so crazy 4 years ago.


----------



## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Maria said:


> Doesn't he though?  We are tempted to get a Lowline heifer just to see if higher percentage of Lowline is even tastier. They are awfully expensive right now, though. We didn't have to pay much for this guy- he's only a 3/4 and beef prices weren't so crazy 4 years ago.


 If it was me, and I'm just not right mind you, I'd put him over Jersey or Holsteins. I'd keep the females and eat the males. Then I'd put him over the offspring and enjoy meaty calves that got extra milk from mama. 

MMM, sorta veal.... :hysterical:


----------



## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

I like to finish them on excellent pasture, but not just grass. We have a lot of hop clover and some vetch and other clovers and it fattens them up nicely, and yes, cheaply! I need to get some pictures of the jersey cross bull we have that we are about to butcher. He is about 17 mos old.


----------



## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Maria, quit starving that poor bull! :nono:


----------



## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

topside1 said:


> Corn is a grass, the kernal is the seeds...


That's kinda like saying milk is beef.


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

southerngurl said:


> That's kinda like saying milk is beef.


No, more like saying bull testicles are beef (and they are!)


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Peggy said:


> cow are ruminants which means their system is desined to eat grass. pryor to wwII cows were fed only grass. cows today are fed corn to fatten them up sooner and get them to the slaugher house faster. most people seem to think cows are to eat only corn. the sooner the cow is slaughered the sooner the farmer will make money on the beef. that true with any animal raised for meat but it doesnt mean the meat is better for us or that the animal is healthly.


Lots of misinformation in this post. Grain was fed pre-WWII. Even today most beef is fed to frame weight on straight grass or hay, or with very limited grain before going to a feedlot. Even once in the feedlot they are started on a heavy forage diet and gradually worked up to a mostly grain finishing feed. 

As far as being "designed" to only eat grass have you ever seen a herd of cattle, or buffalo for that matter turned out on pasture where the grass has headed out? Do you know what they do? That's right,, they walk along and nip off the heads, leaving the rest! I guess no one ever told them they were not designed to do this.. Silly cows! The fact off the matter is that cattle evolved to utilize the most nutritionally dense plant matter available, and to also be able to utilize less nutritionally dense forage. 



Peggy,, _please_ get some unbiased information and stop reading the garbage put out by activists and snake oil peddlers.


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I spent a year riding pens on a large feedlot in western Kansas. This place had two of the most massive bunker silos I've ever seen, filled to the brim with chopped forage. 

Since (according to the local "experts" here) feedlot cattle are only fed grain, I wonder what the heck they did with all that silage. :shrug:


----------



## tonyb (Jul 4, 2011)

springvalley said:


> I think because it`s kinda like getting your hamburger and bun , all in one. :hysterical: Hehe lol , sorry couldn`t help myself. ound: > Thanks Marc


Just add an egg for meatloaf. Mmmmm, comfort food.


----------



## tonyb (Jul 4, 2011)

Maria said:


> This is our 6 year old bull after 4 years of grass and hay only.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Holy Smokes! Hippo is a great description. That's a big ole boy.


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Tink, grass seed is not the same as grain nutritionally. Grain is loaded with starch.


----------



## Gabriel (Dec 2, 2008)

tinknal said:


> Grain was fed pre-WWII.


True, but it wasn't until after WWII that it really took off. Before that, it was used primarily in the winter. Not that that's really relevant to the discussion of health...



> Even today most beef is fed to frame weight on straight grass or hay, or with very limited grain before going to a feedlot. Even once in the feedlot they are started on a heavy forage diet and gradually worked up to a mostly grain finishing feed.


Again, true. But it doesn't take a diet of "only grain" to effect the change in the meat that grass fed proponents are concerned about. 



> As far as being "designed" to only eat grass have you ever seen a herd of cattle, or buffalo for that matter turned out on pasture where the grass has headed out? Do you know what they do? That's right,, they walk along and nip off the heads, leaving the rest! I guess no one ever told them they were not designed to do this.. Silly cows! The fact off the matter is that cattle evolved to utilize the most nutritionally dense plant matter available, and to also be able to utilize less nutritionally dense forage.


Ever seen a group of unsupervised kids at a buffet? That's right, they eat as little of the healthy food as they think they can get away with and pig out on the desserts! That's hardly proof that dessert is the most "nutritionally dense" food on the buffet line.  

Maria, that's a good looking bull! Smaller framed cattle are easier to marble on pasture due to reaching maturity sooner. Incidentally, that's why feedlots have historically preferred larger framed cattle, they require more grain to finish, thus giving them more profit.


----------



## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

Gabriel said:


> Incidentally, that's why feedlots have historically preferred larger framed cattle, they require more grain to finish, thus giving them more profit.


YOU ARE KIDDING RIGHT....

Most cattle in feed lots are NOT OWNED BY THE FEED LOTS


the cost of gain is the reason they want big framed cattle...it cost less to put a pound on a big frame animal than a small one...plus the cattle owner have more pounds on the hoof as the feed lots charges by the head and the percent of real beef on a bigger one is more


----------



## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Well when I ran the mill at a feedlot, the boss enjoyed me putting 6% steam into the flaked grain, to be sold to the cattle owner at inflated grain prices. In fact, he demanded it.


----------



## Gabriel (Dec 2, 2008)

myersfarm said:


> Most cattle in feed lots are NOT OWNED BY THE FEED LOTS
> 
> the cost of gain is the reason they want big framed cattle...it cost less to put a pound on a big frame animal than a small one


Your statement makes no sense. If profit is the goal, which it is, then they wouldn't care about the size of the animal. In fact, a smaller animal that cost more per Lb. to produce would be of benefit to them. (I disagree that larger is more efficient, but that's for another debate.) A large framed animal takes longer to mature, thus longer to marble, thus makes more money for the feedlot. 

The above is not even the point of this thread. The question was simply: "which do you prefer?". So in case it isn't clear by now - I prefer pasture fed/finished due to the superior health benefits as shown by the numerous studies to which I linked. 

Have a nice day!


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Gabriel said:


> A large framed animal takes longer to mature, thus longer to marble, thus makes more money for the feedlot.


Please listen to us folks who have real life experience. A large framed steer does take longer (a little) to mature, but that maturation process takes place on _grass!_ Once the large frame is attained these cattle are very efficient in converting grain to beef and they do it very rapidly. A 2 year old steer has generally only spent 60 to 90 days in a feedlot before slughter.

Feedlots feed both their own cattle, and custom feed cattle. It is a very competitive business and it is to the profit off the feedlot to return as much profit as possible to cattle owners.


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Cliff said:


> Tink, grass seed is not the same as grain nutritionally. Grain is loaded with starch.


Which cattle somehow convert to beef (which apparently) they are not supposed to do. How can this be?


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Gabriel said:


> Your statement makes no sense. If profit is the goal, which it is, then they wouldn't care about the size of the animal. In fact, a smaller animal that cost more per Lb. to produce would be of benefit to them.


Don't quit the day job for career in economics.


----------



## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

[[[[.......grass seed is not the same as grain nutritionally....]]]]

No. Grain _is_ grass seed. All those grain plants are grasses. The grain is the seed for that grass. Plant that grain and it will grow you a grass plant. Im not buying it that grass seed isn't the same as grass seed.


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Here is the problem every time this topic comes up

Someone says "I like grass fed".

I say "Fine, good for you, I prefer grain fed."

And there it should end, but then the trolls and activists come out and start trying to cram their opinions down my throat, and for some silly reason I feel the need to defend my choices rather than just shaking the dust from my sandals (as I should) and walk away.


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

tinknal said:


> Which cattle somehow convert to beef (which apparently) they are not supposed to do. How can this be?


Hahaha that's some type of faulty logic, don't remember the name of that particular brand 

I never said anything about them not converting anything to beef. 

I don't have an argument with any of you grain feeders, just noted what we do because of health concerns. Also noted that americans are fat and dying of heart disease, something that I unfortunately have to deal with on a regular basis because of my work. Take what you will from it... or don't take anything at all from it  

I've been around long enough to know that almost nobody changes the way they eat until they themselves are sick. Usually very sick. But everyone deserves to have the information regardless of what they decide to do with it imo.


----------



## mrs whodunit (Feb 3, 2012)

Grass... we really like it.


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

oregon woodsmok said:


> [[[[.......grass seed is not the same as grain nutritionally....]]]]
> 
> No. Grain _is_ grass seed. All those grain plants are grasses. The grain is the seed for that grass. Plant that grain and it will grow you a grass plant. Im not buying it that grass seed isn't the same as grass seed.


Ok that's pretty simplistic and doesn't take into account the fact that "grass" plants that now produce grain do so because they have been bred in that direction for thousands of years by humans. Nothing like our current corn occurred in nature. And when corn's ancestors produced their tiny nubbins naturally they did so at great intervals. The animals would not have had access to them but once, maybe twice a year. But buy anything you want 

You're playing a game with semantics. I am telling you that grain is not the same nutritionally as grass seed because of the starch content.


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

mrs whodunit said:


> grass... We really like it.


*THANK YOU !!!!!!* lol


----------



## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

tinknal said:


> No, more like saying bull testicles are beef (and they are!)


Actually it would be more the sperm, which are not what I would call beef. 

A more comparable scenario, are eggs chicken? Nope. They are different, if you order fried chicken and the restaurant gives you fried eggs you are probably going to be an unhappy camper, I know I would be. But eggs do turn into chickens. They are different and offer different nutrition. Some people like eggs, I can only stand them sometimes, sometimes they are just gross. But chicken, I always like


----------



## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

tinknal said:


> Here is the problem every time this topic comes up
> 
> Someone says "I like grass fed".
> 
> ...


But that would be a boring conversation with nothing learned by anyone. Why bother? It is only natural we are going to talk about WHY we like this or that! I don't see why people can't talk about things they have different ideas on without getting offended all the time.

I personally like grass fed because of the health benefits of the beef, as well as the flavor and because why should I spend money to pay someone else to grow food for my cattle when I can grow it myself and the cattle can do the harvesting! I love the efficiency.


----------



## Waterwheel Farm (Oct 10, 2011)

I dont think there's a "silver bullet" that will put this question to an end because it is a matter of personal choice. It's like someone trying to convince me of all the benefits of coconut and how good it tastes..... Well, MY brain says it's nasty and I aint eating it! The cattle I raise are grass fed exclusively at this point in time. My experience with the meat is that the burger is great, very little loss during cooking. The roasts also are very good and tender because of the cooking method. Round steaks, etc are good again because of the way I cook them...swiss steak, pressure cooker, etc. On the grill, my ribeyes, strips, t-bones are simply tougher than grain fed if you don't doctor them a little. That's been my experience, others may be different. So for me, I like the grass fed overall, but if I'm going to throw a steak on the grill (which I love to do) my thoughts wander to the tender, marbled, grain-fed variety.


----------



## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

Cliff said:


> Ok that's pretty simplistic and doesn't take into account the fact that "grass" plants that now produce grain do so because they have been bred in that direction for thousands of years by humans. Nothing like our current corn occurred in nature. And when corn's ancestors produced their tiny nubbins naturally they did so at great intervals. The animals would not have had access to them but once, maybe twice a year. But buy anything you want
> 
> You're playing a game with semantics. I am telling you that grain is not the same nutritionally as grass seed because of the starch content.


that's funny... grain seed is grass seed and the starch content will be pretty close.
Any grass plant will be high protein low starch as a young plant but switch to lower protein more starch as the seeds develop.


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

sammyd said:


> that's funny... grain seed is grass seed and the starch content will be pretty close.
> Any grass plant will be high protein low starch as a young plant but switch to lower protein more starch as the seeds develop.


So, what you are saying is that a corn kernel has the same amount of starch as a grass seed growing out in the pasture. 

Nobody said the second statement wasn't true. That's plain common sense. 

As the fact that corn or wheat or oats have more starch than common grass seed lol.

Why does this even need to be discussed?


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Cliff said:


> Ok that's pretty simplistic and doesn't take into account the fact that "grass" plants that now produce grain do so because they have been bred in that direction for thousands of years by humans.


We have been breeding cattle just as long. Breeding them to adapt to the diet we provide for them. Improving them just like we improved grain.

Why is it that people think grain has evolved but not cattle? :shrug:


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Word games. The fatty acid profiles of grain fed beef are not healthy.

Are any of you who eat grain fed beef overweight? Have high cholesterol, high blood pressure, heart disease? On meds for any of these things? That is my only concern and reason for caring about this issue. I'm not trying to be right, out talk or out think any of you. It's not a game of getting the last word in. I'm done talking about this. I hate arguing. It seems to be a game for some of you. Enjoy.


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Been meaning to add this information too but keep forgetting. 

There's a Cleveland Clinic doc, Caldwell Esselstyn, who has proven actual reversal of heart disease over 20 years of research by withholding all animal products and also all free oils. I always wonder if wild or completely naturally fed meat could be included in that diet but as that's not something that's very widely available to the majority of americans I doubt anything like that will be included in the research anytime soon.

I have seen this vegan oil free diet work in practice. It's becoming more well known lately as it's the one Bill Clinton went on when he kept getting sicker following the standard recommendations for heart disease. Even some of the cardiologists here in the south are recommending it which really surprised me. Again not something most people are willing to do until they themselves are very ill but everybody deserves access to the information to make their own decisions. I tell people about it when I can in case it could benefit them or maybe one of their family members one day. Since the diet basically heals the vascular system in your whole body, not just your heart, it also prevents the type of stroke caused by plaques and can reverse erectile dysfunction.

Website is Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease
There's also a video you can watch for free on Netflix or it can be purchased called "Forks over Knives."

He wrote a book describing and explaining the research and diet with recipes. Apparently after only 3 weeks of eating this way 90 something percent of people's cholesterol is 150 or below. Meds can't touch that.

ETA Also, obviously, people lose tons of weight on this kind of diet which also corrects things like type 2 diabetes. The video follows a couple of people over 3 months I think and shows the improvements in their health, labs etc.


----------



## Maria (Apr 24, 2003)

I quite literally can't be a vegan or any sort of vegetarian. I have an intolerance to to histamines in food and there's huge list of things I can't eat. Included in that ridiculously long list are most legumes, eggs and cheese.

There would be no good protein source left and I'd die.

Most of my meals now are variations of meat and potatoes. Lots of grains give me trouble, too, including wheat. And anything fermented. The list of foods I can eat is much shorter than the list of foods I can't eat.

Anyway, animal products are a necessity for me.


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Maria said:


> I quite literally can't be a vegan or any sort of vegetarian. I have an intolerance to to histamines in food and there's huge list of things I can't eat. Included in that ridiculously long list are most legumes, eggs and cheese.
> 
> There would be no good protein source left and I'd die.
> 
> ...


Wow that is rough. I had to look it up, hadn't heard of it before. Is diamine oxidase available as a supplement to help break down the histamine? Is there anything else you can take that helps besides the obvious anti-histamines?

Sorry you have to deal with this  I can't eat wheat and that's a pain when most grocery store food contains that but that's just a drop in the bucket compared to your issue.


----------



## Maria (Apr 24, 2003)

(Sorry for hijacking the thread, everyone!)

I've tried diamine oxidase pills, and they stop the GI symptoms, but not the secondary inflammation issues- so it's really not worth it, especially when the pills are $1 each. Antihistamines as _antihistamines _ don't work because all they do is block histamine receptors. It's the presence of histamine that causes the intolerance reaction. Benadryl has a side effect of increasing the natural production of diamine oxidase slightly, but I can't stand the wooziness. Since the inflammation issues include early osteoarthritis and eczema- I have pretty good incentive to stay on the diet.

I thought I was gluten intolerant for a year because I felt so much better on a wheat free diet, but I kept getting "glutened" despite extreme care and with foods that _couldn't _ have had any gluten in them (like tuna salad) so I finally looked for other answers on the web and "histamine intolerance" was the answer. As long as I avoid the huge list of foods that either have a lot of histamines in them or cause my body to produce histamines.... I'm fine. 

Having this condition and knowing what to avoid eating is a hundred times better than being ill much the time and not knowing why. And doctors were no help- signs and symptoms of histamine intolerance just isn't taught in US med schools yet , I've heard.


----------



## FEF (Jan 30, 2007)

RW kansas hogs said:


> I'm not sure if this has been talked about on here but i couldnt find much in the archives about it.
> Which do you prefer and why? grass finished or corn finished.
> 
> We have 3 holstien steers thar we moved to a rented 4 acre pasture that hasnt been used in over 5 years (lots of grass), 2 of the steers are 9 months old and the 3rd is going on 4 months old.
> ...


One way or another, it's going to cost you to finish a steer. If you only feed a Holstein grass, it will be two years old before it's big enough to butcher. If you break down and feed it grain, maybe, you can have meat on your plate in 15 months. Time is money. If you finish on grain, you could start more calves on the grass. 

From an eating standpoint, I prefer well marbled, grain fed beef. Research will show you that the earlier a calf is put on grain, the more marbling he'll have (assuming, of course, that he has the genetic potential to marble).


----------



## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

Personally, I prefer grass fed ONLY because of the health benefits. The most important being the CLA that is present in grass feed beef and dairy that is NOT present in commercial grain fed beef and dairy (milk).

Yes, most of the cattle in this country were not finished out on grain in the early years. Cattle were grazed on grasses and then "driven" to the stockyards to be loaded onto the trains headed to other parts of the country and to the cities back east. Just when we started utilizing feedlots, I'm not sure.

Our cattle, for 20 years, have had no grain. They are grass fed. We don't bring them into "barn lots" in the winter. We have enough land to graze year round. However, in the winter we do have to feed a lot of hay, but most of the cattle will still dig through some snow for grasses. Some types of standing dead grasses, such as fescue, actually have higher levels of protein after the the killing freezes if it is kept standing.

So, I prefer grass fed only because of the health benefits and less fat.


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Cliff said:


> Been meaning to add this information too but keep forgetting.
> 
> There's a Cleveland Clinic doc, Caldwell Esselstyn, ...........


"Esselstyn is a member of the Scientific Advisory Board of Nutrition Action magazine, published by the Center for Science in the Public Interest."
Caldwell Esselstyn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


That is all I need to know. The CSPI is the "medical" mouthpiece of PETA. 

Anything coming from one of it's members is going to be highly biased at best, and typically a flat out lie.


----------



## K-9 (Jul 27, 2007)

All grass is not created equal, a friend of my raises grass fed black angus, he doesn't slaughter till the fall of their second year. His pasture is a river bottom flood plain and he has plenty of rich pasture for the number of head he runs. He raises some of the best beef I have ever eaten. There is something about the mineral compostion of his soil that gives his beef an incredible taste. His yields are good and his beef is well marbled, now I realize he is raising a beef breed but I think the key to his beef is the abundance of pasture and the mineral compostion of his soil plus he holds his steers a little longer. 

With all that said, I don't see how you are going to be able to finish 3 head on 4 acres unless it is some really good pasture that has been intensively managed for years. Particularlly since you have a dairy breed, to get the most for your effort as has been suggested you will probably need to hold those steers until they are two or better. I would go ahead and start budgeting for some supplemental hay and grain to get you through.


----------

