# Mexican!



## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

After watching the news tonight, it seems some folks are a bit confused about the term "Mexican". A Mexican is a citizen of the country of Mexico, not Hispanic American. Those terms are not interchangeable and very offensive to Americans of Hispanic decent. Just saying!


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Miss Kay said:


> After watching the news tonight, it seems some folks are a bit confused about the term "Mexican". A Mexican is a citizen of the country of Mexico, not Hispanic American. Those terms are not interchangeable and very offensive to Americans of Hispanic decent. Just saying!


Yes Mexico is the scapegoat for many people that are here illegally. In reality there are many here from Cuba, Guatemala, Venezuela and dozens of other countries. 

My family is here from Spain myself on my fathers side. 350 years ago that is. I don't want to mention my mothers ancestors. They are worse than Hispanic to some here. I would never hear the end of it. I catch enough grief as it is just being Texan lol. I am American and Texan. In that order too.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

^^^^^^

At least for the foreseeable future anyway.


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## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

I've never been offended by it. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Seth


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

Miss Kay said:


> After watching the news tonight, it seems some folks are a bit confused about the term "Mexican". A Mexican is a citizen of the country of Mexico, not Hispanic American. Those terms are not interchangeable and very offensive to Americans of Hispanic decent. Just saying!


Depends. I wouldn't presumde to label folks of hispanic decent until they have labeled themselves. It will, at least in the southwest vary from area to area. In NE New Mexico, it varied WIDELY from small town to small town.

When we moved down here (SW New Mexico) my wife let me know that all her friends at church called themselves Mexicans, with good humor and no stress. I filed it away, but decided I would not need to commit to anything just yet, because I am somewhat of a hermit locally and have little contact with neighbors.

Some friends from out-of-state dropped by for a few days and we decided to go to a basketball game where our youngest daughter was cheerleading.

As soon as we walked into the gym, my daughter grabbed a couple of male friends and dragged them over to us by the hands and introduced them "These are my parents, and these are their friends from Colorado" and, pointing to the boys, said "and these are my Mexicans, freddy and Ramone"

All of us adults winced and waited for them to take offense, but they laughed hard and told us "well, she is a Mexican at heart, too".

Not everybo0dy has a chip on his shoulder and looking real hard to be offended. Nobody should take more offense at being called a Mexican than I would at being called an Irishman, even though I and three generations before me were born here.

Don't get me wrong, I do not want to offend people over their race or origins, but there is no one size fits all label. Best to listen before you talk. Some like to be called Latino, too, and there are more terms that escape me right now.

You don't get to decide how to label them. They do.......Joe


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

joebill said:


> Depends. I wouldn't presumde to label folks of hispanic decent until they have labeled themselves. It will, at least in the southwest vary from area to area. In NE New Mexico, it varied WIDELY from small town to small town.
> 
> When we moved down here (SW New Mexico) my wife let me know that all her friends at church called themselves Mexicans, with good humor and no stress. I filed it away, but decided I would not need to commit to anything just yet, because I am somewhat of a hermit locally and have little contact with neighbors.
> 
> ...



I like that Joe.

Truth

Its really refreshing.


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## moonrabbit (Apr 1, 2016)

I live in Mexico, I'm American but my husband and children are Mexican. I call them messicans and yell at them to pick up their dirty clothes.


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

moonrabbit said:


> I live in Mexico, I'm American but my husband and children are Mexican. I call them messicans and yell at them to pick up their dirty clothes.


Great!

The only real insult is the one that s intended as an insult.....Joe


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

We're all immigrants, the melting pot. Now can't we all just get along?


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

elevenpoint said:


> We're all immigrants, the melting pot. Now can't we all just get along?


Apparently not. 

I wonder, what would you call someone if you don't know their country of origin? If they were from Mexico, would they be offended @ being call 'hispanic'?

It's all so confusing. :buds:


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

moonrabbit said:


> I live in Mexico, I'm American but my husband and children are Mexican. I call them messicans and yell at them to pick up their dirty clothes.


So that's common from men of all countries I guess.

I knew we all had something in common. That would make me a messitexan. 

Women? Who can figure them out no matter what country they are from?


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

mreynolds said:


> So that's common from men of all countries I guess.
> 
> I knew we all had something in common. That would make me a messitexan.
> 
> Women? Who can figure them out no matter what country they are from?


I did see a book at the library called...understanding women, vol. 1....it was three feet tall.


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## moonrabbit (Apr 1, 2016)

mreynolds said:


> Women? Who can figure them out no matter what country they are from?


It's very simple: I want my husband to do certain things that sometimes I think might make me happy but I want him to do them without me asking or explaining what they are because that would cheapen everything. I want him to be guided by his love for me and our deep spiritual and emotional bond to spontaneously do very specific things that aren't at all in his basic nature. 

So yeah.. mind reading, gentleman. Failure to comply will bring THE DOOM.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

elevenpoint said:


> I did see a book at the library called...understanding women, vol. 1....it was three feet tall.


Yeah, saw that same book too. I opened it and was gonna get edumacated. But it was a different language than I knew. 

So back to the drawing board for me.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

moonrabbit said:


> It's very simple: I want my husband to do certain things that sometimes I think might make me happy but I want him to do them without me asking or explaining what they are because that would cheapen everything. I want him to be guided by his love for me and our deep spiritual and emotional bond to spontaneously do very specific things that aren't at all in his basic nature.
> 
> So yeah.. mind reading, gentleman. Failure to comply will bring THE DOOM.


LOL, that's the ticket really. Its about the bond. I am married to my best friend of twenty years. We miss each other when we are apart. Its pretty awesome but I do mess up at times and wonder.....


WHY????

But being a master carpenter, I do have an awesome doghouse.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

It's not the Mexican, or any other nationality I dislike. It's the "illegal" preface before the nationality that bugs me.


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

Miss Kay said:


> After watching the news tonight, it seems some folks are a bit confused about the term "Mexican". A Mexican is a citizen of the country of Mexico, not Hispanic American. Those terms are not interchangeable and very offensive to Americans of Hispanic decent. Just saying!


They should really use the word Latino and not Hispanic.


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Miss Kay said:


> *After watching the news tonight, it seems some folks are a bit confused about the term "Mexican".* A Mexican is a citizen of the country of Mexico, not Hispanic American. Those terms are not interchangeable and very offensive to Americans of Hispanic decent. Just saying!


17 posts and it's looking like nobody else was watching the news. :huh:

I don't know if you and I saw the same news, but yeah, I saw a certain thing on the news tonight here in Canada. I watched and listened to a certain hopeful person (who shall not be properly named) while he stuck his oversized foot in his puckered up cupid's bow mouth and said that a certain American born and raised judge should not be a judge. "Foot in mouth" said it was because he thinks the American judge is a Mexican because the judge comes from Mexican heritage and is proud of it and American born people of Mexican heritage aren't Americans, they're Mexicans so they shouldn't be judges in America.

I mean really, if "Foot in Mouth" is going to look at it that way then there is no such thing as an American in USA because everyone comes from some form of immigrant heritage.

I'm still waiting for somebody to announce that "Mr. Foot in Mouth" is some kind of April Fools Day joke but nobody has said it yet. 

I wonder how many readers here are old enough to remember what the gong show was? Here everyone (even some of the media) is openly calling what's happening there a gong show and Mr. Foot in Mouth is the leader of the gong show.

How can anyone, especially someone with such important political aspirations, be so incredibly ignorant and offensive? And how can any other people, except other even more ignorant people, be supportive of such an ignorant person?

It blows my mind that other people aren't feeling ashamed about it all and I personally am feeling embarassed for America. I think it's right to be called a gong show as long as that dangerous idiot is getting attention.


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

elevenpoint said:


> We're all immigrants, the melting pot. Now can't we all just get along?


I'm not. My people had Reservations.:hysterical:
With some, I don't want to get along. But they can...just keep on walkin.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

OK I am an American of Mexican descent with a wild Scotsman thrown in for balance . Three of my grandparents were born in Mexico, they came here legally or they said they did. I've been called Latina, Hispanic and Mexican none of them offend me at all. Who cares I know who I am.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Forgot to add my brothers are the Messicans of the family.:hysterical:


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## popscott (Oct 6, 2004)

elevenpoint said:


> We're all immigrants, the melting pot. Now can't we all just get along?


All but 30 million are *legal* immigrants.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

elevenpoint said:


> I did see a book at the library called...understanding women, vol. 1....it was three feet tall.


I'M OFFENDED! Did you just insinuate women are SHORT??


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

I see. Shouldn't say Mexican. Why is that? Ashamed of their country?
This is not new, btw. I knew lots of Mexicans 'bout 50 yrs ago who we're "Spanish"! Came here directly from Mexico tho, & you'd better not say they were Mexican.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Just because an American called "Mexican" laughs it off doesn't mean they approve. It means they understand you don't know any better and they put up with your ignorance out of politeness. Now that you know better, if you continue to do it you are doing it with total disregard for that person.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

JJ Grandits said:


> It's not the Mexican, or any other nationality I dislike. It's the "illegal" preface before the nationality that bugs me.


That's the part liberals don't understand, or pretend not to understand.
It's so much easier to call everybody a racist.
I know it's hard to believe, but some people actually seem to be stupid enough to believe "Illegal" is a race.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Miss Kay said:


> Just because an American called "Mexican" laughs it off doesn't mean they approve. It means they understand you don't know any better and they put up with your ignorance out of politeness. Now that you know better, if you continue to do it you are doing it with total disregard for that person.


Says who? I am of Mexican descent and am not ashamed of it why would I considered it ignorant?


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

No really- I like that sentiment a lot "who cares, I know who I am"  

I may be accused of being a "dreamer" for saying this but I wish we could just look at each other for what we really are = humans on the earth. the names that catagorize us, divide us. the one that bothers me the most is when "alien" is put after illegal. alien ?!? talk about an attempt to convince us that person is so not like yourself and your family. 

And Fennick, it blows my mind as well and I am embarrassed too, about mr. foot in mouth.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Miss Kay said:


> Just because an American called "Mexican" laughs it off doesn't mean they approve. It means they understand you don't know any better and they put up with your ignorance out of politeness. Now that you know better, if you continue to do it you are doing it with total disregard for that person.


A black friend of mine absolutely hates being called "African-American"
He says he's never even been to Africa and finds the term insulting.
On the other hand, I was in the diner yesterday when a Mexican friend of mine came in with another guy. The waitress didn't know either one of them, and when he asked "Do you serve Mexicans in here?" she was kind of taken aback and didn't know what to say.
I guess you had to be there, it was funny.
He is proud of being Mexican, but he's proud of being American too.
He flies an American flag at his home, and thinks it's stupid to fly a Mexican flag in America.


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## moonrabbit (Apr 1, 2016)

I think the kind of person that is going to be offended when you are not trying to be offensive is going to be a drag in general. Touchy people come in every color, nationality, gender and size ... none of them are invited to our next cookout.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Fennick said:


> 17 posts and it's looking like nobody else was watching the news. :huh:
> 
> I don't know if you and I saw the same news, but yeah, I saw a certain thing on the news tonight here in Canada. I watched and listened to a certain hopeful person (who shall not be properly named) while he stuck his oversized foot in his puckered up cupid's bow mouth and said that a certain American born and raised judge should not be a judge. "Foot in mouth" said it was because he thinks the American judge is a Mexican because the judge comes from Mexican heritage and is proud of it and American born people of Mexican heritage aren't Americans, they're Mexicans so they shouldn't be judges in America.
> 
> ...


No, I saw that but it didn't phase me as it did you I guess. What anyone says has no bearing on me because I don't let it. Its only words and all of us sane ones know the truth anyway. If you pick one or two things said by either candidate and let it get monumental you will only be missing the forest for the tree. 


Been my experience that the really bad racist are the ones that hide it well.


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

Miss Kay said:


> Just because an American called "Mexican" laughs it off doesn't mean they approve. It means they understand you don't know any better and they put up with your ignorance out of politeness. Now that you know better, if you continue to do it you are doing it with total disregard for that person.


Neat! I'm going to tell my friend JR. Gomez that he somehow missed the election where you got named as the person to speak for and label all who had formerly called themselves;

Mexicans
Latinos and Latinas
Chicanos (one I forgot last time)
Hispanics
White Hispanics (from the news media)
Hispanic of anglo desent (young guy I met still trying to define himself)
mestiso (one of my doctors) 

By the way, he tells me that the only difference between a Mexican and an Indian is geography.

If you bail off of the ivory tower, pull the rip cord, get down amongst the folks and get to know them, very often (not always), you will find that if you let them take the lead, they think that all the preocupation with race is as funny as anything that goes on today.

In truth, the concept that there are "special" races went out with Hitler. What do you call this group or that group? by their names, or genders or occupations, hopefully. "Fred and Don, the guys who work at the ball bearing factory".

My wife has been known to comment that she is half German and half Irish, so if race is important she is a drunk and a Nazi. I assure you that she is neither. Race has no value as a descriptor OR a definer, exept to the person being descibed or defined BY HIMSELF.

It's called people deciding for themselves who and what they are. You don't get to line them up and describe and define and name them any more than they can do the same for you.....Joe

PS...I knew a couple of guys in a repair business in South Tucson who called themselves "****** and White boy".......they were a hit!....


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

no really said:


> Says who? I am of Mexican descent and am not ashamed of it why would I considered it ignorant?


Even stranger on the jobsite I am called the ******. It doesn't bother me. We have a mutual respect with one another. There is a certain restaurant that has a ****** plate and every time we go there they laugh and say that's what I need. A day in my life would make most "bleeding hearts" head explode.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

I'm just tired of all the labels, period. Seems like as a society we are going backwards instead of forward. After all this time on earth shouldn't we all just be one race, human?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

dixiegal62 said:


> I'm just tired of all the labels, period. Seems like as a society we are going backwards instead of forward. After all this time on earth shouldn't we all just be one race, human?


You would think so. 

But we just seem to add more labels and slice us up further and further.


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

dixiegal62 said:


> I'm just tired of all the labels, period. Seems like as a society we are going backwards instead of forward. After all this time on earth shouldn't we all just be one race, human?


Clearly, that condition would be reality except there are many leaders who know that having citizens at one another's throats over something that cannot be changed is a big advantage to them.

It's the same as the punk in the schoolyard telling the big guy "are you gonna let him talk to you like that?" when no insult was intended. Conflict creates leaders out of those totally unfit for the job, so if we are to reduce conflict, we have to ignore or ridicule those who demand that we take offense....Joe


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> You would think so.
> 
> But we just seem to add more labels and slice us up further and further.


I feel that's by design .'' United we stand and divided we fall''


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

moonrabbit said:


> I live in Mexico, I'm American but my husband and children are Mexican. I call them messicans and yell at them to pick up their dirty clothes.



Ok now you have done it ! I now realize I come from many generations of Messicans.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

WolfWalksSoftly said:


> I'm not. My people had Reservations.:hysterical:
> 
> With some, I don't want to get along. But they can...just keep on walkin.



Sorry still immigrants.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Ok now you have done it ! I now realize I come from many generations of Messicans.


Imagine church tomorrow when someone from HT tells the pastor that Adam was a Messican too. Always leaving his fig leave laying around for Eve to have to pick up.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

I don't guite get it. I am supposedly German American, I know several Italian Americans, and some Spanish Americans, as well as some African Americans. My first thought is that I prefer we all just use the term American for American citizens. I dont really care what folks in other countries refer to me as when I am in their country...that is up to them. Why do we not have any Mexican Americans to go with our Pakistani Americans etc. What the heck is a "hispanic American"?


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## moonrabbit (Apr 1, 2016)

Hispanic is another one of those terms that is meant to be a box to put people into and as is the case with all vaguely people-shaped boxes not all people fit into it. Hispanic is a term that is supposed to refer to people that speak Spanish and/or people that come from places that were colonized or culturally influenced by Spanish conquerors. 

So that's a bit messy. Because is an American born kid that never learned Spanish still Hispanic because his grandparents came from Mexico? In that case he may not have the language or the culture. What about Filipinos? They were subject to Spain and their national language was Spanish for 300 years, so are they Hispanic? 

Also is it not weird that we are naming people after the people that conquered their countries, often violently? 

Sometimes it seems like words like "Hispanic" exist to answer the question: you are brown, why is that? 

All 4 of my grandparents came from Colombia, I am 5'10" white and blonde. I speak Spanish and was born in the US. What am I? 

It's like one of those bad quizzes you see on Facebook: What "Friends" character are you? Where they make you pick your favorite color and coffee drink then they give you an arbitrary label. (By the way I'm Ross, obviously) 

Bottom line: labels are for soup cans, call me by the name my momma gave me.


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## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

What should we call the ones holding the Mexican flag while burning the US flag?
I believe some of you are our of touch on how much much these folks are costing California its billions!


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

We have too many Buttercups with Inferiority complexes running around that need constant praise or acknowledgement.


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## moonrabbit (Apr 1, 2016)

mustangglp said:


> What should we call the ones holding the Mexican flag while burning the US flag?
> I believe some of you are our of touch on how much much these folks are costing California its billions!


Why if they are living in the US I'd call them traitors. But there are plenty of silly people on both sides of that picket line. If we can put their childish behavior and any emotional reactions to one side we can look at facts with a level head.

Fact is that illegal immigration from Mexico has been declining since 2010, that we are now looking at for the first time in 2 decades negative net illegal immigration. That means more Mexicans are leaving than are coming in. (Say it with me: thanks Obama!) So that means for 5 years now the illegal immigrant population has either held steady or reduced each year. Yet all I hear about on the TV these days is how illegal immigration is an epidemic, even so far as to say the number one crisis facing America.. the numbers simply do not support the circus. We are not gaining illegal aliens, they are leaving, in part because America is no longer a much better alternative to some economies further south.

Let's talk about why they were coming: capitalism flourishes when there is abundant cheap labor. The same people calling for an unchecked capitalist utopia are now blaming illegal aliens as their vision predictably failed. The nature of capitalism is to consume resources and labor with the central goal of achieving the highest level of production for the lowest possible investment. Capitalists gobbled up this cheap labor because it was cheaper than even the cheapest native labor. But instead of placing responsibility on the wealthy that made the hiring decisions it is easier to fault the impoverished laborer. 

Meanwhile capitalism carries on, if they can't get cheap Mexican labor why they will just move their factories overseas won't they? And they do, and then they sell their goods right back to the good old US of A because we do so love us some capitalism. It's been so good to us, the billionaire corporations get their subsidies and tax breaks while fox news decries the single mother's food stamps because that's the real problem facing America, all those hungry poor people whose jobs got shipped off to China and Bangladesh so that Walmart could save a few pennies per lot by paying children to sew canvas tennis shoes in death trap factories. Hail capitalism! 

The war mongering psuedo Christians in the republican party speak in one breath about saving unborn babies and in the next breath about how we need to drop more bombs on some third world goat herders (and their families!) because those war contracts make for a tidy profit. They hide behind a handful of token moral issues as they push an agenda of inhospitality, greed and mercilessness that goes against everything their oft mentioned savior taught them. 

I'm no socialist but I'm no fool either. If there is money for endless, pointless wars then there is money for education and infrastructure. If corporations want to sell here then they should hire here and if you think illegal immigrants are the cause of all your woes then you've been hoodwinked by a bunch of modern pharisees.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

moonrabbit said:


> All 4 of my grandparents came from Colombia, I am 5'10" white and blonde. I speak Spanish and was born in the US. What am I?
> 
> Bottom line: labels are for soup cans, call me by the name my momma gave me.



Nice ? Well you seem nice enough let's go with that. 
Sorry but I don't know the name your momma gave you so if nice won't work I'm gonna call ya moonrabbit......0r perhaps moonR for short ?


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## Ozarka (Apr 15, 2007)

moonrabbit said:


> Why if they are living in the US I'd call them traitors. But there are plenty of silly people on both sides of that picket line. If we can put their childish behavior and any emotional reactions to one side we can look at facts with a level head.
> 
> Fact is that illegal immigration from Mexico has been declining since 2010, that we are now looking at for the first time in 2 decades negative net illegal immigration. That means more Mexicans are leaving than are coming in. (Say it with me: thanks Obama!) So that means for 5 years now the illegal immigrant population has either held steady or reduced each year. Yet all I hear about on the TV these days is how illegal immigration is an epidemic, even so far as to say the number one crisis facing America.. the numbers simply do not support the circus. We are not gaining illegal aliens, they are leaving, in part because America is no longer a much better alternative to some economies further south.
> 
> ...


OMG!!!! Someone actually speaking with clarity on HT!!! I am delighted to find a post containing The Truth. Eisenhower is often quoted for one of his last speeches wherein he said "...beware of the Military-Industrial Complex" but in the original draft of his speech he said "Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex"...

We should all fear the rise of an Arkie Junior Congresspig named Tom Cotton. Particularly women, brown skinned ppl and those of us who dislike war.


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

You wrote;

"I'm no socialist but I'm no fool either. If there is money for endless, pointless wars then there is money for education and infrastructure. If corporations want to sell here then they should hire here and if you think illegal immigrants are the cause of all your woes then you've been hoodwinked by a bunch of modern pharisees."

The problem with both infrastructure and education is CERTAINLY not that we do not allocate and spend LOTS of money on them. We have the most expensive and impotent education system in the free world, opperated primarily by liberals and the teacher's union, and Obama's stimulus package was a stupedous transfer of wealth that was supposed to BE for "shovel ready jobs" in infrastructure. Didn't take long for Obama to be laughing at the very idea of shovel ready jobs, or that anybody thought that was actually what the money would be spent for.

It was a giant slush fund for him to use to repay those who got him elected, and let the infrastructure rot.

I certainly do NOT think that illegals affect jobs in my particular location, because I live virtually ON the Mexican border (OK, north about 40 miles), and they like to head for places a bit further from home, but they certainly DO affect the incidence of crime here, and cause a fair number of deaths, both from murders and drunk driving, etc.

Also, most of the dollars they earn leave the US economy very quickly and do not return. They wire the money home ot Momma and the kids. At least until a fair percentage o0f them find a new woman up here and start spending it on her. Happens a lot, I'm told.

A recent measles outbreak at a holding facility has been working it's way through Tucson and surrouding areas, and this is just the most recent of a long string of them, going back a decade, brought in by illegals. Other ailments, too.

It's not uncommon for them to catch somebody around these parts who is unprepared to defend him or herself, beat the crap out of them, rob them, whatever. Two nearby neighbors have been murdered by them, one attempted rape on a young girl whose dog cleaned their clocks, one of the widows of one of the murdered men run down by a drunk illegal and sustained horrible injuries only months after the murder of her husband.

An old couple, friends of my wife, two of them came to the front door, pushed their way in, grabbed the old woman, put a machette in the back of the old man, taped them to chairs with duct tape, took everything they could find and stole the truck. Left them there to die, with the old guy bleeding down his back. Wife finally got loose and called the ambulance and they both lived.

No, they are not Satan incarnate, but they are far from a benign presence in our lives. Part of the problem is that the dope smugglers have taken over the regular coyote routes, and NOW if they want to get across the border in THIS sector, they are required to carry packs of dope as part of their passage, so they sort of prequalify as criminals and scumbags by virtue of that activity, even if they were never criminals before.

A couplre of them standing at my gate a few days ago, talking sign language. Motioned me over, but I did not go. Why did they want me off of my property?

First made telephone motion...shook my head no
Wiggled empty water bottles at me........no
made smoking motions at their lips........got a smoke?......no

Repeat all of the above......still no

I point..........."NORTE".....north

They take off west down the road. I call border patrol. if they are truly out of water, the border patrol will give them a drink when they pick them up. They did not walk here from Mexico only carrying water bottles, so the pack they were carrying had to be hid under a mesquite bush nearby, and maybe anoher couple of guys with it, ready to jump me if they thought they could do it faster than I could draw my weapon, which they likely could have done. They asked for a phone before anything else, which means that is what they REALLY wanted, so they could call the guy to come pick up them and the dope. Just what I need at my home place.

OR, maybe they really did put on tactical Cammo and jungle boots, pick up 2 12 oz water bottles (not big jugs) and figure that was all they needed to proceed from somewhere in the interior of Mexico past the US border to a major ciy where they could find work, avoiding our border patrol and the coyotes waiting to press them into service as drug mules. Maybe.........Joe


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## popscott (Oct 6, 2004)

moonrabbit said:


> Fact is that illegal immigration from Mexico has been declining since 2010, that we are now looking at for the first time in 2 decades negative net illegal immigration.


Would you care to share these facts with us. Any credibal link would suffice.


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

Lots of links out there claiming that, but I dunno if they are credible. I DO know that the ones coming on the "death train" are mostly minors not with adults, which causes it's own set of problems.

If they are declining or not, what is the difference? It only takes one from the wrong spot with the worng plans to kill a lot of people. The OTM (other than Mexican) bunch are probably NOT declining, and the border patrol will not share that info. It's a free pass for terrorists, well developed, supplied, fairly low risk of getting caught and low price to pay if they DO get caught. Just "try again later", like a busy phone line.

We are the only modern nation on the planet that does not protect it's border by use of it's military, and THIS is the place most people want to come, either for a job, a free ride, to do us harm or any combination of the three. There is nothing more "special" about the ones who want to sneak in than the ones who are willing to follow the rules, so my vote would be that anyone sneaking in should lose the opportunity forever, no matter where he is from.

The reality of what they do is much different than the romantic picture that gets presented. Lots of them will die this summer in the desert, and their families along with them. The hospitols along the border are flooded to the point of insolvency from giving care they never get paid for, often from injuries suffered while falling off of the top of the border fence. ALL public services are strained to the breaking point, including schools.

The murder of Rob Krentz nearby occurred when he spotted one laying down and went to help him on his 4-wheeler, but it was a setup. The ranche'rs brother had recently found a huge stash 0f dope on the ranch and called it in, and the BP picked up the dope and the mules (men) carrying it, so the killer posed as a sick or injured traveler, when Krentz aproached to help, shot him and his dog to death.

I'm not complaining. This is my home and I will stay here as long as I live. Just don't let's pretend that illegal immigration does no harm and that they are all just "seeking a better life", because "seeking a better life" is not so innocent when that life belings to me or my wife or our neighbors.

That nation just south of us has teetered on being a failed state for decades. If they want to erase the border, they should just cede the country to the USA, because I don't believe any force less determined and effective than the US military will ever turn it into a civilized country in THIS century.....Joe


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## popscott (Oct 6, 2004)

joebill said:


> Lots of links out there claiming that, but I dunno if they are credible.


The actual # is up 57% the last 2 two years according to new data collected by the Census Bureau

http://cis.org/New-Data-Immigration-Surged-in-2014-and-2015
http://cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/camarota-surge_0.pdf

New data collected by the Census Bureau shows that 3.1 million new immigrants (legal and illegal) settled in the country in 2014 and 2015, or more than 1.5 million annually. 

What is funny is I have been hearing 11 million for years now...... I hear there is a constant flow accross the border, in our direction. How odd is it the number never seems to increase.
HHHHHMMMMMMM.... please tell me how they are swimmimg back into Mexico again. Never heard that one.


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

Actually, the rio is often dry or nearly so. During those periods, they are known as "sandykneestas".....sandy knees.....Uh, I guess you had to be there.....  Joe


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## moonrabbit (Apr 1, 2016)

popscott said:


> The actual # is up 57% the last 2 two years according to new data collected by the Census Bureau
> 
> http://cis.org/New-Data-Immigration-Surged-in-2014-and-2015
> http://cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/camarota-surge_0.pdf
> ...


The link you gave says : "Immigration from other countries has offset a decline in immigration from Mexico."

The largest group of illegal immigrants currently are coming from Asia. Yet it is never Asian illegal immigrants that people are complaining about. Africa is beating Mexico on your charts you linked to yet a southern border wall is supposed to solve illegal immigration. Net immigration from Mexico is negative, this thread is about Mexico. 

As far as the number staying the same, people die, they get their papers they get deported. they leave of their own accord. Hundreds of thousands of new illegal immigrants could come into the country each year and it would not necessarily change the number of illegal immigrants here.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

AmericanStand said:


> Sorry still immigrants.


So did you come by Plane,Boat or Train?

I tend to use the definitions that go with the words.
*imÂ·miÂ·grant*
*&#712;im&#601;&#609;r&#601;nt/*
*noun*
*noun: immigrant; plural noun: immigrants*
*a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.*


I never have done such a thing, I and many other are not Immigrants.

Now if you want to drop the spin, you could truthfully say "Are we not all descended from Immigrants".

That I can buy, and it true the world over.

But those born after the move are no more Immigrants then Rocks are Cotton Candy...


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## moonrabbit (Apr 1, 2016)

joebill said:


> You wrote;
> 
> The problem with both infrastructure and education is CERTAINLY not that we do not allocate and spend LOTS of money on them. We have the most expensive and impotent education system in the free world, opperated primarily by liberals and the teacher's union, and Obama's stimulus package was a stupedous transfer of wealth that was supposed to BE for "shovel ready jobs" in infrastructure.


I have just as much beef with Obama as I do with Republicans. I'm Christian, I feel like the Republican party are mostly wolves in sheeps clothing and they have been exploiting and disappointing their conservative base for a long time. Really other than a handful of moral issues that they use to differentiate each other it seems like it's the same garbage on both sides of the aisle, self serving crooked politicians.

Under the watch of our democrat president we spent 54% of all discretionary spending budget on defense last year and a whole 6% on education which is yes still a lot of money that is being poorly spent. Really, I'm tired of the war machine, I didn't think we needed to be in Iraq the first time and it's just been more of the same for decades. If we are going to spend all that money why not spend it on something positive or hey why not pay off some of our debts?

That little rant aside, border life is tough, I have lived on both sides of the border, the cartels are no joke but I don't think it's representative of the vast majority of illegal immigrants and I don't think it is like that further north. If you look it up you'll find that most studies show lower crime rates among immigrants than non immigrants. You will always have more crime in areas with higher poverty, inner city etc but there hasn't been a link showing immigration status of the population as a factor for higher crime rates except for on the border and in that case it's a moderate increase in drug crimes.

I feel for you living in the path of the migrants, I'd be scared not to give someone a drink of water though, makes me think of the sheep and the goats from the bible.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> No really- I like that sentiment a lot "who cares, I know who I am"
> 
> I may be accused of being a "dreamer" for saying this but I wish we could just look at each other for what we really are = humans on the earth. the names that catagorize us, divide us. the one that bothers me the most is when "alien" is put after illegal. alien ?!? talk about an attempt to convince us that person is so not like yourself and your family.
> 
> And Fennick, it blows my mind as well and I am embarrassed too, about mr. foot in mouth.


Well, the word 'alien' was not rude til the movie came out. Look up the legal definition.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

mustangglp said:


> What should we call the ones holding the Mexican flag while burning the US flag?
> I believe some of you are our of touch on how much much these folks are costing California its billions!


Ugly, rude, unpatriotic Mexicans.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

moonrabbit said:


> If you look it up you'll find that most studies show lower crime rates among immigrants than non immigrants. You will always have more crime in areas with higher poverty, inner city etc but there hasn't been a link showing immigration status of the population as a factor for higher crime rates except for on the border and in that case it's a moderate increase in drug crimes.
> 
> 
> .




lol I don't think there's a accurate way to do those studies. 

How do you know who did a hit and run because they didn't have the right to be here ?
If they are ticketed for speeding and then driving without a license does it then list them as a illegal ?
I've noticed that many illegals use their lack of paperwork as justification to break other laws. 

Let's face it they self select for lack of respect for law and order.


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## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

popscott said:


> Would you care to share these facts with us. Any credibal link would suffice.


The key word is illegal the current administration is welcoming them here with open arms.
And many don't come from Mexico they are from further south from countrys like El Salvador home of MS13.


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

moonrabbit said:


> I have just as much beef with Obama as I do with Republicans. I'm Christian, I feel like the Republican party are mostly wolves in sheeps clothing and they have been exploiting and disappointing their conservative base for a long time. Really other than a handful of moral issues that they use to differentiate each other it seems like it's the same garbage on both sides of the aisle, self serving crooked politicians.
> 
> Under the watch of our democrat president we spent 54% of all discretionary spending budget on defense last year and a whole 6% on education which is yes still a lot of money that is being poorly spent. Really, I'm tired of the war machine, I didn't think we needed to be in Iraq the first time and it's just been more of the same for decades. If we are going to spend all that money why not spend it on something positive or hey why not pay off some of our debts?
> 
> ...


First, I agree with you about republicans deserting the base. They are, for the most part, worthless, but I also shake my head that the only true conservative of the whole mob didn't get selected to run.

Second, when the temps are 109 in late afternoon and two guys are positively skipping around like young goats playing in a field, they are NOT out of water. I know very well what dehydration looks like, and they were not. They were trying to play on anythhng that would get me in range. When they lerft, they walked right past my shop 200 yards down the road where there was a hose hanging out and never stopped.

I have fed a lot of them, and gave one my lunch when I was working here before we moved, but I have a real good eye myself as to who the sheep are and who is a goat. 

As to crime stats, check this link out.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/09/1...htening-toll-illegal-immigrant-criminals.html

Local crime involving illegals hardly gets a smell in the news, and most states either do not keep stats or will not release them. Frisco is all of a sudden up in arms because they killed a PRETTY girl. Takes a great face and figure to blast away the shroud of political correctness.

We were in Iraq the first time because it had invaded Kuwait. We can ignore what happens to our allies and pull in our horns if we want to, but it has rarely worked out in the past. I, too, am disgusted, but more by the fact that every time we win some ground, a democratic administration will come along and give it back, making it all a horrible waste. That is a trend that we need to consider before we go in.

Defense dollars are an ugly fact of life. I am not smart or well informed enough to know what is enough or what is too much, but I do know that without them we will not be here very long. Too many folks who truly want to kill each and every one of us, and are acting on that desire.

In my opinion, the very best stance is to be so formidible in power and to apear so very willing to exersize it that nobody trifles with us. It is walking a razor's edge, and I'm glad it's somebody else's job, but I certainly wish it was not Obama's. Weakness kills.

As to education dollars, we already spend so much in the colleges that the price of an education frequently will never repay the guy who gets it. I'm not a bit sure that education should even be trusted to the federal government at all. Some of the best educated children I have ever seen were homeschooled, and they were interesting, thoughtfull, social, well behaved little twerps that are going far in life, too. 

We had kids in the house for 40 years, and I spent most of those years at war with one school or another, mostly over them trying to "carve their initials" into my kids. Schools are more like liberal boot camps than institutions of education. I am NOT the guy who wants creationism taught in school, either, but I ALSO do not want atheism taught, or revised history like "the KKK was a part of the republican party"

I probably should not even get started on all my problems with the school system, but believe me when I say that giving them more dollars to do even more of the same is not in my playbook.

Have a good'n...I have work to do before it gets too hot.....Joe


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## moonrabbit (Apr 1, 2016)

joebill said:


> First, I agree with you about republicans deserting the base. They are, for the most part, worthless, but I also shake my head that the only true conservative of the whole mob didn't get selected to run.
> 
> Second, when the temps are 109 in late afternoon and two guys are positively skipping around like young goats playing in a field, they are NOT out of water. I know very well what dehydration looks like, and they were not. They were trying to play on anythhng that would get me in range. When they lerft, they walked right past my shop 200 yards down the road where there was a hose hanging out and never stopped.
> 
> ...




I agree with you about the schools and it was for me the biggest factor in me finally deciding to homeschool my children. There is a breakdown in values in this country that is really sad. But something does need to be done, we are falling behind the rest of the world as far as how prepared the kids coming out of school are and that affects everyone here. 

War rubs me the wrong way and it especially rubs me the wrong way when it's being pushed by Christians. Since when are drone strikes something Jesus would approve of? I feel like over the years, republican bundled things that have no natural correlation. Think abortion is wrong? Then you'll love war! Think homosexuality is a sin? Then you'll love looking down on the poor and immigrants. It's not of Christ to be bloodthirsty or greedy.

And it's not working, it's not solving anything. If you count up all the Americans that died in every terrorist attack on American soil including 9-11 and you add to that fallen US troops from every war starting with the Persian Gulf war the number is less than 5000. Now that is awful, I love our country and our troops. But weigh that against the hundreds of thousands of people we have killed in the middle east in that same time period and ask yourself: who are the terrorists? No wonder they hate us, we've been dropping bombs on them for decades. Is that a cause worthy of the lives of our young men and women? What are we really gaining? If you follow the money trail war is good business for some folks. Jesus said turn the other cheek, not "kill them and their family too."

Hope you have a good day, I'm on the border too and it is hot as all get out today.


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

He said to them, &#8220;But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don&#8217;t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.&#8221;

&#8212;&#8201;Luke 22:36, NIV

Nobody thinks we are gaining anything good from war, just trying hard not to lose it all, like our enemies want........and YES, it is hot around here.....Joe


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

A friend, when his kids whined that a task he had assigned them was too difficult would tell them "Remember, it's Mexi*can*, not Mexi*can't*" :hysterical:
(Yeah, I have lots of Mexican friends)


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Miss Kay said:


> After watching the news tonight, it seems some folks are a bit confused about the term "Mexican". A Mexican is a citizen of the country of Mexico, not Hispanic American. Those terms are not interchangeable and very offensive to Americans of Hispanic decent. Just saying!


You want to see someone get upset call a Korean "Japanese".


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## popscott (Oct 6, 2004)

A letter to the president......

Dear President Obama, Senate and Congress:

I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.
We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico , and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements.
We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.
I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, the President of Mexico, that I'm on my way over?
Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking Government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. Please print all Mexican Government forms in English.
4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.
5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.
7. Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.
9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico, but I don't plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won't make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my housetop, put U.S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.
14. I want to receive free food stamps.
15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.
16. I'll need income tax credits so that although I don't pay Mexican taxes, I'll receive money from the government.
17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Government pays $4,500.00 to help me buy a new car.
18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I'll get a monthly income in retirement.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all of his people who walk over to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that the President of Mexico won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.

Do you see how stupid this looks when it's put it in writing?


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