# I am stepping down as a moderator...



## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

I have decided that it is in my own best interest to step down as a moderator on this board. I think most of you know the love I have had for this place and the people here. I have enjoyed your stories, shared in your triumphs and your tragedies. I have given this place my heart. I have laughed and cried here and defended this place with all my might. 

I have struggled and prayed over this decision and I do not make it lightly. Every letter I am typing I am wanting to just click the back button and not publish it. But, if I am honest with myself, I know this is the best decision I can make for my health and my life going forward. I wish you all the very best and I hope that if you think of me, they are good thoughts-which is how I will always think of you. When I picture my friends here I always think of you with a smile. May God Bless you all and may your homesteading journeys be happy ones.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Thanks for all you've done, Melissa


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I wish you nothing but the best, you will certainly be missed and leave a big hole here at HT. God Bless You.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

Well Melissa, I am right behind you as this board will not be the same if you aren't here.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

I won't miss either of you..........Oh wait thats because I found a new home and your both there 
After reading a few more post about whats going on, this is my last post here. I am removing HT from my favorites as it sure isn't a favorite place to go anymore.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

I made this a sticky so members will see it.


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## wally (Oct 9, 2007)

Thank you for the blood,sweat and tears that you have put in. If you feel that its the best decison to be made. I will support you and hope you continue to share time here..


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

I'm sorry to see you go but understand that all of us need to make our own decisions. You will truly be missed.


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

I wish you all the best. I do hope you will reconsider this...


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## aftermidnite (Dec 8, 2005)

I think THIS above anything else should tell all members of HT just what these last few days have done to the whole community of Homesteading Today ...

If Melissa has decided that she is stepping down then there are real and true problems that cannot be fixed by the CEO no matter promises he makes now nor the new people he puts into place ..
The trust has been broken and I don't think anything said by the CEO can bring it back ..although I think he will do his best to deflect the damage done ..
I am sure this site will continue because there are new people stopping in each and every day ....
I am sure most of this mess with be swept under the rug as soon as it can be ..but trust has been broken and I for one am unsure of how it can be regained if ever ..

I am happy that another place has been offered to gather and am sure that many will find their way "home" soon ...


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## Candy (May 12, 2002)

I am very sorry to see you go! But I will also see you on the other board.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Certainly the loss of such a great moderator is one more blow. I do wish you the very best and thank you.


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## Muskrat (Sep 4, 2005)

A person should make the decision that is best for him or her. This will give you the opportunity to spend more time on your own board. 

Good luck.


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## ivorylibby (Jan 12, 2003)

This must have been a tough decision for you Melissa. I truly enjoyed reading about your homestead and family over the years. 
The past few years, it hasn't been the same. I used to enjoy Moopups and Ole Hoot(did I get that one right?)

I was reluctant to post because I watched too many threads take bizarre turns, I just enjoyed reading.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Muskrat-I never really had the desire to have my own board. I am sure I could have over the years. The proboards originally was a back-up board for when this place would go down and I wanted people who were leaving to have a place to gather. I messed up the first one somehow and could not do any admin work (trust me there is a reason I never wanted to do any admin stuff, I am just not good at it~) and we had to open another one. I never intentionally set out to start a new board.I would have happily posted and moderated here forever actually...


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

So many great people over the years and so many people to miss. It sure has been a wonderful experience.



ivorylibby said:


> This must have been a tough decision for you Melissa. I truly enjoyed reading about your homestead and family over the years.
> The past few years, it hasn't been the same. I used to enjoy Moopups and Ole Hoot(did I get that one right?)
> 
> I was reluctant to post because I watched too many threads take bizarre turns, I just enjoyed reading.


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## unregistered97395 (Feb 28, 2011)

Melissa, you were actually one of the only reasons I re-joined---yes, re-joined HT. I did so shortly after Moopups passed because I was so sad and didn't want to be taken by surprise again. Besides, even though I no longer live in the country and even though I barely have time to sleep these days, I still play at homesteading with my feeble gardens and my massive food storage and my rain barrels and and and, so HT was a useful site for me.

This move, however, is just too bizarre even for me, and I don't even hardly post! I went through this one other time at a forum I'd joined back in the 90's. The change wasn't for the better, not one bit.

You really have been the heart and soul of this place, and I'm sure I'm far from the only one who feels that way.


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## Muskrat (Sep 4, 2005)

So you aren't just stepping down as Moderator, you're leaving HT?


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## Jokarva (Jan 17, 2010)

Reasons you'd care to share with the rest of us? This whole thing has exploded way past my time or ability to keep up.


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## toni48 (Mar 25, 2008)

Oh no this is awful and sad. I don't understand what happened but am sick and sorry you're going. Thank you so much.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

I am sure I will read here (especially the Tightwad Tips thread, best thread on the internet I think!) and I might post some. It is pretty raw for me right now.



Muskrat said:


> So you aren't just stepping down as Moderator, you're leaving HT?


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## Kris in MI (May 30, 2002)

Melissa, I (think) I know how very hard of a decision this has been for you, and it greatly saddens me that you have been put through everything that has brought you to this point. You definitely have been the heart and soul of this board.


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## tlrnnp67 (Nov 5, 2006)

Melissa,

Best wishes to you. You have to do what you think is best. I for one will miss you. 

I think your announcement will be the death knell for HT.


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## SunsetSonata (Nov 23, 2006)

You're leaving some mighty big shoes to fill. Can't imagine anyone else running this board.

Makes me so sad that a single individual in a position of power did something so deceitful, and in the end it resulted in your leaving. 

This place will never be the same.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

I'm sorry beyond words that you feel you must do this, but totally understand how you came to this decision. I'll be seeing you on your new site.


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## Elizabeth (Jun 4, 2002)

It's a sad day when a moderator steps away from what is essentially her forum 

I don't blame you one bit. I would do the same in your position, except that I don't think I would slow down or look back. I'll probably be leaving here myself soon, and not just because of the plagiarism incident. 

You will be missed by many people here, Melissa. I feel as if I have watched your children grow up here. One of my favorite memories is of Brady's reaction when he realized that after all three of his sisters moved away from home, HE would be the only child left to do the dishes 

Lots of good memories. You have made a very real contribution here, not just to the forum, but in people's real lives as well.

I wish you all the best, and look forward to seeing you on your new site.
Remember, we all built this forum up from nothing, and there is no reason we cannot do it again somewhere else. Maybe we will regain some of the small-town feel and more of the sense of community which we had many years ago.

Cheers.


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## stef (Sep 14, 2002)

I'm very sorry, Melissa. This decision must have been incredibly difficult for you. See you on the Homesteading Families Forum.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

What Stef said. And Elizabeth ... This is a community made up of _people_. The website is just a meeting place. After what has gone on here, I like the thought of meeting someplace that isn't driven by profit-seeking ... and the kind of decisions that seem to follow once the almighty $ enters the picture. 

Off to register now ...

Edited to add: I didn't even bother reading the 'Terms & Conditions' over there; just checked the box. I knew I have nothing to worry about with Melissa in charge.


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## tlrnnp67 (Nov 5, 2006)

Can someone please put the new forum address in this thread or PM me the address?

Thank you.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

Wendy said:


> I made this a sticky so members will see it.


Who removed it as a sticky?

heres the new board

http://homesteadingfamilies.proboards.com/


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Melissa, you are a special person and you can be proud that you built a special forum and ran it well for so many years. Wishing you nothing but the best!


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

I did. I think it can just be part of the general posts. There are plenty of sticky's already!



Merks said:


> Who removed it as a sticky?
> 
> heres the new board
> 
> http://homesteadingfamilies.proboards.com/


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## Rick (May 10, 2002)

tlrnnp67 said:


> Can someone please put the new forum address in this thread or PM me the address?
> 
> Thank you.


Just look at the wonderful Melissa's sig line!


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

tlrnnp67 said:


> Can someone please put the new forum address in this thread or PM me the address?
> 
> Thank you.


Just look at some taglines.


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## Elizabeth (Jun 4, 2002)

Willow Girl-

Huh?

I agree with you 100%. That was my point- no matter where we meet, it is the people who make up a community. I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> What Stef said. And Elizabeth ... This is a community made up of _people_. The website is just a meeting place. After what has gone on here, I like the thought of meeting someplace that isn't driven by profit-seeking ... and the kind of decisions that seem to follow once the almighty $ enters the picture.
> 
> Off to register now ...
> 
> Edited to add: I didn't even bother reading the 'Terms & Conditions' over there; just checked the box. I knew I have nothing to worry about with Melissa in charge.



We'll even let you mention your forum Willow!


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

Sorry Melissa, I just wanted to make sure people saw this thread.


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## kronk (Mar 26, 2015)

New here... and now gone. What a load of crap. Especially Steve's lame mea culpe. Insulting to the end. 
Now off to spread the word. You guys are like herpes.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Elizabeth said:


> Willow Girl-
> 
> Huh?
> 
> I agree with you 100%. That was my point- no matter where we meet, it is the people who make up a community. I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise.


No, no, I wasn't talking TO you -- I meant that I agreed with you and Stef both. 

Sorry I didn't make that clear. It's been a long week. I have a feeling this next one will be better.


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## CountryMom22 (Nov 27, 2014)

Melissa, your forum was the reason I joined HT. Thank you for your time and attention here. I have loved visiting in this forum and you were a huge part of that. I will be seeing you on the new site. Bless you. Sue


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Wendy said:


> We'll even let you mention your forum Willow!


And we will put a link to yours on ours! :happy2:


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

kronk said:


> New here... and now gone. What a load of crap. Especially Steve's lame mea culpe. Insulting to the end.
> Now off to spread the word. You guys are like herpes.


OK I don't care who you are.......That was funny!!!!


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

This makes me extremely sad - and if Wendy goes then doubly sad. However I understand and just want to thank you, Melissa, for being a wonderful moderator. You have been the poster-person for courtesy, dignity, respect and fairness. You will be missed. Nothing will be the same.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I'm so sorry, Melissa. You have been the heart of this forum. Sometimes it's painful to do the right thing, many of us are with you.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Wow, the world has come to an end on HT when you leave as moderator on a forum that you built and brought here. I will really miss seeing you but I think that your stepping down signals an end to the way things should be here.

I will see you on the flip side of where ever we land,

You are one of the "good" ones.

Best regards
Sidepasser


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Oh uh - here comes that sick feeling again - like the one thread "We knew she was sick . . . . ."

Melissa - I know you have put your heart and soul into this board - but I do respect your decision. I don't WANT you to step down, but I also realize that sometimes a person has to do what is right for them.

I do want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the time and effort you have put in here. Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!!!!!

Best wishes on what your future holds.


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## strawberrygirl (Feb 11, 2009)

I am so sorry you were forced to make that decision Melissa. I know much you truly loved this place. :awh:

Thank you for your years of hard work and dedication to HT. It will never be the same. Ever! 

Now off to the proboards...


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

I tried to register at the new location but it said my name was not valid. So, I tried to log in like I do here and it didn't work. What am I doing wrong?


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## aftermidnite (Dec 8, 2005)

this is sad ..


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## SmokeEater2 (Jan 11, 2010)

Miss Kay said:


> I tried to register at the new location but it said my name was not valid. So, I tried to log in like I do here and it didn't work. What am I doing wrong?



Miss Kay, I had trouble at first too and had to re-register. Don't give up! :thumb:


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

If anyone is having problems joining the new site just post as guest in the help section and melissa or wendy will help you.


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## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

I have been out of town for several days without a computer, Clovis gave me a heads-up. This is just too weird. I need to find more information...


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## lemonthyme7 (Jul 8, 2010)

I'm sorry you are leaving Melissa but I understand why you are doing it (even though it must have been a gut wrenching decision). I will probably not be on here much either in the days to come. It is nice to know we have somewhere to go to meet with all our friends though and thank you for that.


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## bigjon (Oct 2, 2013)

:nanner:see ya at pro.:nanner:


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

I add my thanks for all your efforts throughout the years, and fully understand and support your decision. Stress can make you sick, and you certainly don't need that. Will be following you, believe me. Take care!


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

I'm so sorry but entirely understand. You have been a true lady for as long as I've been here lurking for a couple years and then registered. I'm at homesteading families already and the atmosphere there is like a lovely cup of tea on a warm spring morning.


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## Rocksandcedars (Dec 30, 2014)

Melissa, I'm so sorry that you are leaving. Your forum was the only reason I registered. I was very disturbed over the turmoil and will not be visiting HT in the future. I'm looking forward to finding your new forum.


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## Dorothea (May 10, 2004)

im sorry your leaving as well,,i will be joining the new board as well


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## Cindy in NY (May 10, 2002)

Sorry to hear this but completely understand!!

I was registered at the back-up board. Do I need to re-register on the new board?

Hope this week looks brighter for you!


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

I'll go too--but I want everyone with me--this forum helped me so much when my Husband was dying--you just cant replace the care I got here--


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## NJ Rich (Dec 14, 2005)

I feel sad you are leaving. You made this a special place. I usually didn't post but read your Forum. 

I have laughed; cried; was bought to prayer and learned much. 

I will follow you soon....

Thank you and Peace as you move forward. NJ Rich :grouphug:


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I hate to see you leave. This place wont be the same without you.


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## Grandmotherbear (May 15, 2002)

Melissa- I know you have to do as you think best. Thank you for the past years, you have been a wonderful moderator..I tried to sign in on your new board but it said the "proof you're not a robot" was incorrect. I will try again.


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## Grandmotherbear (May 15, 2002)

I know you must do what you believe is best for you. Thank you for moderating the forum. You leave behind big shoes to fill.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I'm sad to see you and Wendy go. Seems this forum has lost many of my favorite people over the last few years.


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## Kathy in MD (May 30, 2002)

Melissa, I am so, so sorry you felt forced into abandoning &#8220;Your&#8221; board&#8230;&#8230;everyone that knows you completely understands and acceptances your decision&#8230;your kindness, honesty and fairness has influenced more people that you realize&#8230;.thank you for all the blood, sweat and tears over the last 18 years&#8230;.seeya at proboards&#8230;.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

This will all work out in the long run. I hope that everyone here will support whoever becomes the new moderators, I am sure they will do their very best.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Melissa, I am glad that you will remain a part of this community, this family, that we have shared for so long, and shared with so many other fine people. This family has been through a lot together. 

Arm in arm, hand in hand, this family has been together through thick and thin, trials and happiness, pain and joy.

We prayed together when forum members or their family or their friends were ill and fighting for their lives.

We supported forum members together when their sons and daughters were sent off to war.

We cried together when our forum members died&#8230;.moopups, Windy in Kansas, Old Hoot, nanadeb, and others I cannot remember right now.

We laughed and partied together when forum members were blessed with a new baby, grandchild, or spouse. 

We came to the aid of forum members together, financially, emotionally, spiritually, and physically when they needed our help.

And, like most families, we&#8217;re had our differences, our dysfunctional moments, and our fights. 

Yes, we&#8217;ve been through quite a lot together. For some of us, it&#8217;s been almost 15 years together. It&#8217;s sad to see the changes that are occurring right now. But, through the sadness, one thing that will never change&#8230;one thing that will never be taken away from us&#8230;and that is, our fond memories of better times together.


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## Belldandy (Feb 16, 2014)

Very sorry to hear this, and I echo the sentiments expressed.


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## Nancy (May 14, 2002)

So sorry you have to do this Melissa because this is your baby, you raised it and your kids on here. I will certainly miss you but have joined the other board too.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Melissa, you'll continue to do great things where ever you are; in real life or on the Internet.

It is a bit sad when an old house becomes what is no longer a home. It's still there, but in almost no way the same. It sometimes becomes just a cue to spark memories of what used to be: sort of the same as driving by an old place and thinking, "Gee, I used to live there."

All the more so because, in reality, you built this.


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## snoozy (May 10, 2002)

Oggie said:


> Melissa, you'll continue to do great things where ever you are; in real life or on the Internet.
> 
> *It is a bit sad when an old house becomes what is no longer a home. It's still there, but in almost no way the same. It sometimes becomes just a cue to spark memories of what used to be: sort of the same as driving by an old place and thinking, "Gee, I used to live there."*
> 
> All the more so because, in reality, you built this.


Well-said, Oggie!


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## danielsumner (Jul 18, 2009)

I know how Melissa feels, really, I know how she feels. I was an administrator on a forum that Carbon Media bought. One they got the files, databases ect from me, I was locked out as an administrator. Once they figured out they needed me and I was valuable, they ask me to be an administrator again. I haven't been back. Also give Angie a break, she is caught in the middle of this mess. She is just a moderator, she has no input with them at all. This is just my opinion.

Daniel


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

Angie was administrator at the time of all of this. She is now just a regular member.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

Angie was administrator at the time of all of this. She is now just a regular member.


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## Homesteader (Jul 13, 2002)

Melissa - I joined, so while I'm sorry about all that happened here, it's time to move on - you're a most appreciated gal and Wendy too!


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

I don't think that she will ever be just a regular.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

Not sure why that posted twice


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## OUVickie (Mar 8, 2003)

Thank you for all your hard work and encouragement over the years, Melissa. You've been a great moderator.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

It ain't the ups and downs of being a rock star, but the present is definitely one where the page is turning...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAbY2cmEsS0[/ame]


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## elizaloo (Jul 5, 2010)

Wow, I am not a frequent poster but I do drop in to read often. I'm blown away by the happenings this week! I've learned SO MUCH about homesteading from this forum, the changes and attitude from the new owners just breaks my heart. I don't know anyone here personally but I've followed the stories of everyone. I'm just sad to see such a vibrant community being destroyed by the actions of these new owners.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

Sorry to hear you are leaving, Melissa.

Some people just have the tact, compasion, and temperament to be a good moderator and you are one of those people.

Thank you for your many years of volunteer service to this electronic community.

Follow your heart, stay true to your values, listen to your gut feel and you will be fine in whatever path you choose next.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

As I am very sorry to see Melissa go, I'm also sorry to see others leave here as well. But I do wish you all well. 

A few people have said they don't need to read the TOS at Melissa's board because they trust her. But as a head's up, I'm posting the TOS from ProBoards. It is much broader than the one currently here and gives ProBoards broader permission to use your content than HT has.



> YOU HEREBY GRANT THE PROBOARDS PARTIES A PERPETUAL, FULLY PAID-UP, WORLDWIDE, SUBLICENSABLE, IRREVOCABLE, ASSIGNABLE LICENSE TO COPY, DISTRIBUTE, TRANSMIT, PUBLICLY DISPLAY OR PERFORM, EDIT, TRANSLATE, REFORMAT AND OTHERWISE USE USER CONTENT IN CONNECTION WITH THE OPERATION OF THE WEBSITE, SERVICES OR ANY OTHER SIMILAR OR RELATED BUSINESS, IN ANY MEDIUM NOW EXISTING OR LATER DEVISED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION IN ADVERTISING AND PUBLICITY. YOU FURTHER AGREE THAT THE PROBOARDS PARTIES MAY PUBLISH OR OTHERWISE DISCLOSE YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION IN CONNECTION WITH THEIR EXERCISE OF THE LICENSE GRANTED UNDER THIS SECTION. YOU AGREE TO WAIVE, AND HEREBY WAIVE, ANY CLAIMS ARISING FROM OR RELATING TO THE EXERCISE BY THE PROBOARDS PARTIES OF THE RIGHTS GRANTED UNDER THIS SECTION, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY CLAIMS RELATING TO YOUR RIGHTS OF PERSONAL PRIVACY AND PUBLICITY. YOU WILL NOT BE COMPENSATED FOR ANY EXERCISE OF THE LICENSE GRANTED UNDER THIS SECTION.
> https://www.proboards.com/tos


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## sandsuncritters (Nov 18, 2011)

Your homepage picture is lovely 

In His Love
Mich


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## sandsuncritters (Nov 18, 2011)

I remember this forum from its beginning. Knowing its history, I'm sure its devastating for you to leave it. This has brought me to tears as well. I will keep you in my prayers.

Cabin Fever said it best I think, as he always did/does. 

In His Love
Mich


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Belfrybat said:


> As I am very sorry to see Melissa go, I'm also sorry to see others leave here as well. But I do wish you all well.
> 
> A few people have said they don't need to read the TOS at Melissa's board because they trust her. But as a head's up, I'm posting the TOS from ProBoards. It is much broader than the one currently here and gives ProBoards broader permission to use your content than HT has.


Here's the thing, it was never really the TOS that were the issue (and if people think it was, they weren't really paying attention). It was that the administrators of the board thought it was OK to use messages as they wished.
This was never a legal issue. What they did was perfectly legal. That's why so many of us don't care that they changed the TOS. They went from probably legal to definitely legal :shrug:

The issue is whether the board leadership has the integrity to know what is wrong or right. 
And I trust Melissa and Wendy to know.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Belfrybat said:


> As I am very sorry to see Melissa go, I'm also sorry to see others leave here as well. But I do wish you all well.
> 
> A few people have said they don't need to read the TOS at Melissa's board because they trust her. But as a head's up, I'm posting the TOS from ProBoards. It is much broader than the one currently here and gives ProBoards broader permission to use your content than HT has.


Thanks so much for sharing this, but we have already discussed this over on that forum. 

I'd post the link, but that's not allowed here.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

ErinP said:


> Here's the thing, it was never really the TOS that were the issue (and if people think it was, they weren't really paying attention). It was that the administrators of the board thought it was OK to use messages as they wished.
> This was never a legal issue. What they did was perfectly legal. That's why so many of us don't care that they changed the TOS. They went from probably legal to definitely legal :shrug:
> 
> The issue is whether the board leadership has the integrity to know what is wrong or right.
> And I trust Melissa and Wendy to know.


This. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It was always about the ethics.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Belfrybat said:


> As I am very sorry to see Melissa go, I'm also sorry to see others leave here as well. But I do wish you all well.
> 
> A few people have said they don't need to read the TOS at Melissa's board because they trust her. But as a head's up, I'm posting the TOS from ProBoards. It is much broader than the one currently here and gives ProBoards broader permission to use your content than HT has.



This....is a big reason I am really thinking about leaving. Trolls, sneaks gossipers and trouble makers running around finding or making trouble and bullying others. Parts of this board has a culture of this and has eroded over the years. People who think they are elite, know better than the common poster. Past Administration and some moderators allowed it to happen. Current Administration is allowing it and it is continues. 

Except Melissa's board, it was always different. It was a family, people respected each other. Family is not always perfect, but most truly care. I have signed up over there to have a place just like Melissa had here. Enough for me. It is a place to go be friends, neighbors, what we used to have here. People can talk as they feel comfortable, knowing the Admin will support them, we have lost that trust here. 

You talk about moving on, I suggest you do that and leave the posters here to make up their own minds. These type posts will never let the hurt go away. Take your own advice, let the wounds heal. Please. Thank You....James


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

I can't speak for Melissa, but for me it was not about the TOS. I know my stuff could be taken & used & I personally don't care as I don't write anything worth taking. However, a lot of people do care. It was not that the posts were taken, it was that credit was not given to the poster & the posts were put elsewhere under a different name as if they had wrote that post. After that it was the way things were handled by the CEO & administration. It may all work out & that is well & good. I don't wish this board any harm. 

I do however NOT want to be associated with deceitful people. I do not like to see the hurt & chaos this has caused among people I have come to love. The credibility of the mods was brought into question & I don't want my reputation hurt by this.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

ErinP said:


> Here's the thing, it was never really the TOS that were the issue (and if people think it was, they weren't really paying attention). It was that the administrators of the board thought it was OK to use messages as they wished.
> This was never a legal issue. What they did was perfectly legal. That's why so many of us don't care that they changed the TOS. They went from probably legal to definitely legal :shrug:
> 
> The issue is whether the board leadership has the integrity to know what is wrong or right.
> And I trust Melissa and Wendy to know.


I am a bit stunned that you still don't understand. What was done was plagiarism. Plagiarism is illegal. The terms of the pre-existing TOS _claimed_ that it WAS legal. The fuss over the TOS was to correct that and to prevent any further abuses of that type.

There had been other festering issues that added to the complaints, but the core issue was and always was unauthorized illegal use of material.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Harry Chickpea said:


> I am a bit stunned that you still don't understand. What was done was plagiarism. Plagiarism is illegal. The terms of the pre-existing TOS _claimed_ that it WAS legal. The fuss over the TOS was to correct that and to prevent any further abuses of that type.
> 
> There had been other festering issues that added to the complaints, but the core issue was and always was unauthorized illegal use of material.


It was wrong, insensitive, and in poor taste, but under the old TOS I don't believe it was illegal. The reason I say that is because the old section on who owns HT content said:

_When someone posts original content on this site, the content enters the public domain._

I interpret that to mean that material posted at HT automatically becomes public domain material (that is, the site owner donates the material to public domain), so everyone owns it and everyone is free to use it (including CMG). The problem with that is the TOS went on to try to restrict the use of the material. That put the TOS in conflict with itself.

Reposting public domain material is not plagiarism, since anyone is free to use public domain material without restriction.

CMG's CEO interprets that passage to mean only that the material is publicly accessible, but that's not true either. For example, content posted in forums that are restricted to privileged members isn't going to be publicly available. I suspect that a court would interpret that passage to mean that all HT material was donated to the public domain.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Harry Chickpea said:


> I am a bit stunned that you still don't understand. What was done was plagiarism. Plagiarism is illegal. The terms of the pre-existing TOS _claimed_ that it WAS legal. The fuss over the TOS was to correct that and to prevent any further abuses of that type.



Unfortunately, no. Plagiarism has a lot of gray areas. If this were an established illegal activity, Plagiarism Today would have cited case law in their article. 
However, while plagiarism is ALWAYS unethical, its not always illegal.

The new TOS really hasn't changed anything, despite verbiage.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

ErinP said:


> The new TOS really hasn't changed anything, despite verbiage.


The TOS will never change anything, regardless of what it says. The only way it's going to change anything is if it's tested in court. I don't see that ever happening.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Nevada said:


> The TOS will never change anything, regardless of what it says. The only way it's going to change anything is if it's tested in court. I don't see that ever happening.



Yep. 
Like I said, there's really no precedent, and that'll be the only way to *establish* precedent.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

Wendy said:


> I can't speak for Melissa, but for me it was not about the TOS. I know my stuff could be taken & used & I personally don't care as I don't write anything worth taking. However, a lot of people do care. It was not that the posts were taken, it was that credit was not given to the poster & the posts were put elsewhere under a different name as if they had wrote that post. After that it was the way things were handled by the CEO & administration. It may all work out & that is well & good. I don't wish this board any harm.
> 
> I do however NOT want to be associated with deceitful people. I do not like to see the hurt & chaos this has caused among people I have come to love. The credibility of the mods was brought into question & I don't want my reputation hurt by this.


 .............Wendy , you need to apply for a patent on your Cinnamon Rolls ! There maybe a franchise stuck somewhere twixt the layers of dough and the cinnamon . , fordy


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Ah yes speaking of cinnamon rolls good stuff I am having one good sized one right now. Yummy


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Fair Use and Copyright Protection cases as they pertain to online digital sharing are everywhere within the justice system. So, is this a copyright issue or not? An abuse of Fair Use or not? An act of plagiarism or not?

Who owns what online is not a small concern.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Cabin Fever said:


> Melissa, I am glad that you will remain a part of this community, this family, that we have shared for so long, and shared with so many other fine people. This family has been through a lot together.
> 
> Arm in arm, hand in hand, this family has been together through thick and thin, trials and happiness, pain and joy.
> 
> ...


Post of the decade award.


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## AnnieinBC (Mar 23, 2007)

This is so sad..I wasn' aware of any of this happening until I came on here today. The moderators here always did such a great job


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## Cindy in PA (May 13, 2002)

Since I don't check in here very often anymore, I missed the whole thing! Just wanted to say thank-you to Melissa for all her hard work over the years. I always enjoyed this forum and will miss you all very much. It's a shame everything has to change, but that's progress! Good luck on your new board & my best to you and your family. Thanks for so many memories.


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## Queen Bee (Apr 7, 2004)

I haven't had much time on here lately and must have missed something... I have enjoyed you contribution to this entire board.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

If you go back a week or two, you will see what was serious enough to make Melissa and a lot of folks feel we had no option but to leave. Assuming the posts/threads are still here. If not, I'm sure someone has them screen captured.


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

> t of folks feel we had no option but to leave.


Looks like you are still posting here to me.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

flowergurl said:


> Looks like you are still posting here to me.


It's hard to break a 13 year habit, and of course there are still people here of whom I am quite fond.


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

Then why come here to post you have no choice but to leave ?


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Closing the thread at the suggestion of the OP.


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