# Riots, riots, riots everywhere



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Seems like every city and town is having a GD GF riot or protest. Now they are in Dublin, Bulgaria, England, Germany, Tokyo (there are very few black people in Japan), Belgium, just about everywhere around the world.


My question


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

It's about justice not race.
Nice baiting though.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Some go out looking for trouble.
Often they get exactly what they ask for  :






https://www.wmar2news.com/news/regi...an-punch-sergeant-backup-officer-hitting-back


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

HDRider said:


> Seems like every city and town is having a GD GF riot or protest. Now they are in Dublin, Bulgaria, England, Germany, Tokyo (there are very few black people in Japan), Belgium, just about everywhere around the world.
> 
> 
> My question


Are we talking about _riots_ or _protests_? Your poll question asks about riots but the first sentence in your post seems to conflate the two. There is a huge difference, but there must be some coordination to have either... it's pretty difficult to have a protest _or_ a riot of one.

I believe the riots (violence, arson, etc.) are being seriously influenced by "outside" forces (primarily antifa and anarcists) whose only desire is said violence. They work to inflame impressionable persons from the protest crowds so to some extent they are a mixture of both groups.

The looting is also a mixture of outside forces and local opportunists.

Finally the protesters are people that are mostly truly concerned (and reasonably angered) by police abuse.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

homesteadforty said:


> Are we talking about _riots_ or _protests_? Your poll question asks about riots but the first sentence in your post seems to conflate the two. There is a huge difference, but there must be some coordination to have either... it's pretty difficult to have a protest _or_ a riot of one.
> 
> I believe the riots (violence, arson, etc.) are being seriously influenced by "outside" forces (primarily antifa and anarcists) whose only desire is said violence. They work to inflame impressionable persons from the protest crowds so to some extent they are a mixture of both groups.
> 
> ...


Agree with all the above.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I agree with some.
Iv'e heard white nationalist and all sorts of groups are involved.
Who knows whats true.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> It's about justice not race.
> Nice baiting though.


Not racial justice?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

homesteadforty said:


> Are we talking about _riots_ or _protests_? Your poll question asks about riots but the first sentence in your post seems to conflate the two.


I will give the protests being organic, ginned up, but let's say spontaneous.

I am specifically asking about the riots.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

What makes this situation nearly impossible to resolve is that, as a group nobody wants to admit their own complicity in the problems.

If those cops in Baltimore didn't have body cams they likely would have already been fired or worse yet arrested. If the people in Minn. had not videoed Mr. Floyd's murder, many would have taken Chauvin's side and he could have quite possibly have gotten away without charges.

A first step would be body and dash cams for every officer and vehicle and those cameras must remain on at all times. This would allow everybody to see the truth behind every situation and accusation. I believe this should be absolutely mandatory across the nation.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I would be very suspect of where the car cams are placed.
Leaving blank spots.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

HDRider said:


> Not racial justice?


I think the gold standard should be liberty and justice _for all. "Red and yellow, black and white" (from that old song)_, or for that matter purple with green polka dots


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

SRSLADE said:


> I would be very suspect of where the car cams are placed.
> Leaving blank spots.


Surely they have or could quickly come up with 360 degree or multiple cams for vehicles and rear view body cams linked to the standard front view.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

SRSLADE said:


> I agree with some.
> Iv'e heard white nationalist and all sorts of groups are involved.
> Who knows whats true.


Very true that we don't know but the white nationalist thing just doesn't pass my sniff test. Though this should be about justice for all, it started out as and is primarily about (if not for) blacks. What would white nationalist have to gain... most that I've dealt with would never be seen with a black person, much less protest or riot with them. Seems to me that they would be more likely to be protecting "white" interests as an excuse for using violence against blacks than coordinating with them.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I think the whole thing, not Floyd dieing (that was just one of those things), is contrived. Someone saw this as a flash point event, and lit the fuse. The only real thing is how well, and how so many, people joined in of their own free will. Maybe people been cooped up too long.

This issue, here in the US, is getting a very out-sized reaction. There are many things bigger than this, maybe not to Hollywood and Corporate America, but here is short list

40 million people around the world were still trapped in some form of slavery
Castes systems
Suppression of speech and expression
Child Abuse and Neglect
children working in forced labor,
Thousands of children globally are being neglected. They're also being physically, sexually and emotionally abused
Poverty and disease
Various forms of persecution, and "education camps"

Here is what seems like an exhaustive list of things going on now, today. http://encyclopedia.uia.org/en/problem/133064

And then we have police killings of black people in the US


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

homesteadforty said:


> Are we talking about _riots_ or _protests_? Your poll question asks about riots but the first sentence in your post seems to conflate the two. There is a huge difference, but there must be some coordination to have either... it's pretty difficult to have a protest _or_ a riot of one.
> 
> I believe the riots (violence, arson, etc.) are being seriously influenced by "outside" forces (*primarily antifa and anarcists*) whose only desire is said violence. They work to inflame impressionable persons from the protest crowds so to some extent they are a mixture of both groups.
> 
> ...


Those groups are worldwide and I believe Antifa is a spinoff from the anarchists.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

The 60s called and they want their protests back. Seriously, in 2020 is that the most effective way to exert social pressure? 

Have there been any protests anywhere that didn't have some troublemakers, thieves and vandals join the ranks? The irony just kills me. They are protesting all cops everywhere, painting them all with the same brush, but don't you dare lump peaceful protestors into the same category as the rioters who were in the same crowd.

Does anyone really believe that weeding out bad cops is a one time and done exercise?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> It's about justice *not race*.
> Nice baiting though.


How can you say that?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> I agree with some.
> Iv'e heard white nationalist and all sorts of groups are involved.
> Who knows whats true.


No doubt some are involved. I don't doubt black hate groups are also involved as well as PAC's and a whole slew of other shady characters.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

po boy said:


> Those groups are worldwide and I believe Antifa is a spinoff from the anarchists.


Antifa (Antifaschistische Aktion) started as a _violent communist group_ in Germany in the early 1930's, fighting against fascism (Mussolini and Hitler). They continue to emulate communism and are considered to be almost worldwide in their reach.

Anarchists believe in the *abolition of all government* and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion.

The commonality is in the phrase "voluntary, cooperative basis". The difference is that Antifa (communists) want a _government _to force your voluntarism and cooperation... Anarchist want to force it on you themselves.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

There have been 71 Unarmed People of Color Killed by Police, 1999-2014 - I could not find more recent dates
https://gawker.com/unarmed-people-of-color-killed-by-police-1999-2014-1666672349


The highest proportion of those killed was among Native Americans, who were killed by police at a rate of 7.8 per one million people, the researchers found.

African-Americans died at the hands of police at a rate of 7.2 per million

17 individuals (all races) were killed by police in 2019


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> No doubt some are involved. I don't doubt black hate groups are also involved as well as PAC's and a whole slew of other shady characters.


Seems to be a catch all moment.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

It’s about poverty.

poverty breeds drugs and stealing as a way to survive. Drugs lead to more stealing, so it grows upon itself.

it becomes ingrained as a way of life. Normal for everyone to be thieves and drugged.

So all the protesters are pretty much supporting their way of life, drugs and theft. Look at the celebrities that are on board with the rioters, they are all pretty clearly deep in the drug culture.

Floyd was full of drugs and passing bad checks (stealing) it just all goes hand in hand.

it’s very difficult for the rest of the country to support that type of lifestyle.

and so many of us support the calm and order that a normal society and law and order offer.

some days a few cops go bad.

some days a few thugs go good.

it happens.

it’s a bad thing, but it happens.

All of the poor folk look at the police as bad because the police want to stop them from stealing and dealing drugs. Their way of life. So police = bad to them, all the time. This is the spark that brings it out in them all.

but the lines in general are pretty clear.

it happens to follow racial lines but it’s more about poverty than anything, with a bunch of rebellious drugged youthfulness thrown in.

Paul


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Poverty is a factor with out a doubt. However there are a LOT of law abiding poor folks, of all colors. They seem to know the difference between “right and wrong” and are willing to live within the boundary’s set by society. Poverty is not the main problem I suspect.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

rambler said:


> It’s about poverty.
> 
> poverty breeds drugs and stealing as a way to survive. Drugs lead to more stealing, so it grows upon itself.
> 
> ...


Wow... most of my family has been poor going back at least 4 generations. They weren't druggies or thieves. I know many poor people from the area I live now and from where most of my family has lived for generations (Appalachian mountains) and I only know of a couple that used drugs and/or were thieves. I do know of a number of drug addicts... several of which are from a poor background and around as many from a middle class background.



> Look at the celebrities that are on board with the rioters, they are all pretty clearly deep in the drug culture.


I haven't been around any of them enough to know how deep if any of them are deep in the drug culture... nor would I make such a broad statement that I really have no clue about.



> Floyd was full of drugs and passing bad checks (stealing) it just all goes hand in hand.


Mr. Floyd had drugs in his system but there's no indication that he was "full of drugs" or how recently he had taken them... this information has not been mentioned anywhere I can find. Also, he reportedly used a counterfeit $20.00 to purchase cigarettes... nothing to do with bad checks.

Did he even know that the bill was counterfeit? Was the bill actually counterfeit at all? Did he deserve to have the life pressed out of him over 20 bucks?



> some days a few cops go bad.
> 
> some days a few thugs go good.
> 
> ...


It _did not_ just happen! The act of pressing a knee into his neck, kneeling on his back thereby compressing his lungs and, kneeling on his back at stomach level, thereby restricting movement of his diaphragm pressing the air from his body and making it impossible to further take in sufficient oxygen.



> All of the poor folk look at the police as bad because the police want to stop them from stealing and dealing drugs. Their way of life. So police = bad to them, all the time. This is the spark that brings it out in them all.


Again... so wrong... almost all the "poor folk" I know are fully supportive and even friends with the police. It almost sounds like you're using "poor folk" as a euphemism for black people and even at that you'd be wrong with a statement as broad as the above.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

All, both, some of each. There are a lot of people involved for a lot of reasons. Sometimes the most violent actors are there for organic spontaneous reasons, they just get worked up by outside agitators that are operating in a very planned manner. Once the window to the target store is breached it's anybody's game.

We don't have a race problem in this country, we do have a poverty problem, poverty leads to crime, and it is very easy for criminals of one race to blame all of the worlds problems on members of another race, using examples of criminals of their target race to justify their own criminal activities. 

We have had a black guy as president, and he wasn't executed by poor meth-heads that fill the ranks of the various white supremacy groups. There are black professionals that have seized opportunity and made the most of it, there are black athletes that have dominated sports that were open to folks of all races. Black people are allowed to vote, which enables them the most direct route of effecting change in their communities.

As far as police is concerned, we have racist police, just like we have racists in most every walk of life, but we have a lot of laws, and a lot of police, and we put a lot of them in high crime areas (which are also high poverty areas) and they deal a lot with the minorities that live in those areas. We also have a lot of combat veterans as police, and racism is a coping mechanism for a lot of people that have suffered combat. People often dehumanize the people they are forced to kill, it helps with facing the reality of being directly responsible for a man not coming home to his children. When this coping mechanism gets transferred from the battlefield to a citizen police force, there are problems.

Can even be indirect, as a result of training. People with military experience often teach tactics and tell stories to police coworkers that can affect the actions of even non-military police officers. It can manifest as brutality, even racially motivated brutality, but much more indirectly than the concept of card carrying racists purposefully joining police forces. We need police to look at people as citizens, some of which they need to deliver a summons to, instead of enemy combatants.

Anarchy isn't that bad, true libertarians are anarchists, with fascists being at the absolute other end of the spectrum. Liberal and conservative are on a completely different spectrum. Antifa is pretty high on the fascist end of the spectrum, and pretty far to the left of the liberal/conservative spectrum. Regardless of what their name implies, they are anything but anti-fascists and anything but anarchists, although they do use carefully tailored anarchy as a weapon.

So right now we have fascists using anarchy to reinforce racial stereotypes, by co-opting grassroots civil rights activism. Thereby perpetuating racial tension that allows them to spread the chaos that would allow them to gain control. It is sad for the people that they are using as tools that they have no desire to actually help.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

homesteadforty said:


> Wow... most of my family has been poor going back at least 4 generations. They weren't druggies or thieves. I know many poor people from the area I live now and from where most of my family has lived for generations (Appalachian mountains) and I only know of a couple that used drugs and/or were thieves. I do know of a number of drug addicts... several of which are from a poor background and around as many from a middle class background.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You need to visit Princeton.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Don’t discount Russian backed chaos.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

I was wondering if I missed something. 
Everyone is talking about racism. Beside the cop being white and the man on the ground being black. Has any evidence been provided that the cop treating the person on the ground poorly because of the color of his skin. Does the cop have a history of saying racial slurs etc?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The cop had a history of working at the same place as his victim.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Not every city had protests or riots.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The cop had a history of working at the same place as his victim.


So they could have been friends?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I don’t think so.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Ziptie said:


> So they could have been friends?


Could have been personal, not racial. Also could have been an authoritarian cop who wanted to rough up a civilian.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Here's one group.


*'Boogaloo' arrests in Nevada portray extremists using protests to incite civil war*


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

SRSLADE said:


> Here's one group.
> 
> 
> *'Boogaloo' arrests in Nevada portray extremists using protests to incite civil war*


Good,,, Never heard of them before Barr mentioned them last week.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Don’t discount Russian backed chaos.


Chinese


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> Here's one group.
> 
> 
> *'Boogaloo' arrests in Nevada portray extremists using protests to incite civil war*


That link was just the Yahoo News splash page.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Are we being pushed into a race war?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

The only place I have ever heard of Boogaloo is on this site.
Until now.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

*PARIS, FRANCE*
*







*
*
NICE, FRANCE

TURIN, ITALY










FRANKFURT, GERMANY










BERLIN, GERMANY










COLOGNE, GERMANY

MANCHESTER, UK










LONDON, UK










SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA

BRISBANE, AUSTRALIA
















https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/06/mas...inue-over-police-killing-of-george-floyd.html

*


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Are we being pushed into a race war?


Yes.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> *PARIS, FRANCE*
> *
> 
> 
> ...


Those look like protests to me, not riots.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Those look like protests to me, not riots.


I agree.

What I do not get is how the world has got so ginned up with this overblown issue.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Excuse to not shelter-in-place from virus.


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

HDRider said:


> There have been 71 Unarmed People of Color Killed by Police, 1999-2014 - I could not find more recent dates
> https://gawker.com/unarmed-people-of-color-killed-by-police-1999-2014-1666672349
> 
> 
> ...



https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ lots of data on that site


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Excuse to not shelter-in-place from virus.


That makes more sense than the stated reason


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

susieneddy said:


> https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ lots of data on that site


Is there a point hidden there?

Do you think the police kill too many people?

Do you think some deranged police kill people for the fun of it?

What is your point?


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

HDRider said:


> Is there a point hidden there?
> 
> Do you think the police kill too many people?
> 
> ...


Facts on that page doesn't support what you posted. The site is there to find the data if you feel like it


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

susieneddy said:


> Facts on that page doesn't support what you posted. The site is there to find the data if you feel like it


So you can't make a point?

What did it disprove?

Maybe you misread what I wrote.

I am not a mind reader.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

The majority of people in the world are ill informed, and easily fooled. Ask any advertising professional. We all have trigger points, that can be used to influence our behavior. From how we vote, to what we eat, is influenced by something or someone. It can be a color, a smell, a place, money, perceived injustice, hatred, love, and the most commonly used of all, self interest.

A psychologist uses this to help someone to overcome a psychosis. A skilled practitioner can use it to bring about almost any desired action or reaction. The military have units that try to influence the enemy. Politicians use it to influence voters. Corporations use it to influence consumers. World leaders in both the government and private sector use it to influence all of us.

Social media allows psychological manipulation on a global scale. This is what we are seeing now, and it is working. The very best manipulators will make you think that something is your idea, and that you are not being manipulated.

We are being played.


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

HDRider said:


> So you can't a point?
> 
> What did it disprove?
> 
> ...


And you aren't good at searching data either


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> We are being played.


By whom?

Why?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

susieneddy said:


> And you aren't good at searching data either


Do you have a point?


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

I *Personally* think it's not as simple as many think...

1. Virus madness, lockdown, fear, etc from COVID for 3 months.

2. Yet another murder of a person in custody, this one on video.
-- I say person since it's not all black people being murdered.

3. Uncertainty/Fear about jobs, unemployment is still quite high.

4. Every poor taste/idiotic thing we see on TV, 24/7/365.
From armed protesters in a capitol building and roaming the streets,
To organized *********** groups showing up en masse,
To 'ANTIFA' types in black hoods/masks,

5. Now looting and arson...
While the far right is pumping the idea these looters & rioters are being transported in,
Maybe the arrest reports/home addresses would shed some light on where they are from...
There is no shortage of local idiots that will jump in and do the WRONG thing given any opportunity or excuse.

6. The government isn't helping any, inflaming the situation, bickering about everything that doesn't involve looting the taxpayer for generations to come...
No leadership, constant party line fighting, completely ignoring what's going on in the real world.


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

HDRider said:


> Do you have a point?



You said "17 individuals (all races) were killed by police in 2019" 

The site I posted says differently. 1098 individuals (all races) killed by police


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

HDRider said:


> By whom?
> 
> Why?


I don't know. In a well run psy-ops operation you can't till where it is coming from, or who is running it. It usually boils down to power or money, which are the same thing. Who would stand to benefit from a world wide change in government? And what better way to bring this about than a well intended movement, that couldn't be traced back to the source.

And because this opinion will seem so far fetched, it will be discounted. The easiest person to play, is someone who thinks he can't be played.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> What I do not get is *how* the world has got so ginned up with this overblown issue.


Lies on the internet, traveling at the speed of light.
They still pretend the Floyd incident had something to do with "race".


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JeepHammer said:


> 2. Yet another *murder* of a person in custody, this one on video.


No one was "murdered".
Floyd died from heart failure.
He was showing symptoms before they had him on the ground.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

susieneddy said:


> You said "17 individuals (all races) were killed by police in 2019"
> 
> The site I posted says differently. 1098 individuals (all races) killed by police


I went back to understand about the 17. I am not sure where that came from. Sorry about that.

I was focused on unarmed people killed.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I agree.
> 
> What I do not get is how the world has got so ginned up with this overblown issue.


It's not overblown.
The people around the world want justice.
For everyone. Fairly.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585140/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-weapon-carried-2016/


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> It's not overblown.
> The people around the world want justice.
> For everyone. Fairly.


I disagree. The issue of black people being targeted, or disproportionally killed by police is a lie.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I disagree. The issue of black people being targeted, or disproportionally killed by police is a lie.


And you have the right to agree or disagree with anything you'd like. Just as everyone else does.

I've read on this site that "statistics" can indicate dang near anything...


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I disagree. The issue of black people being targeted, or disproportionally killed by police is a lie.


You seem hung up on the fact that some people are black.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> It's not overblown.
> The people around the world want justice.
> For everyone. Fairly.


They don't really want "justice".
They want special treatment.
They want "reparations".
They want control.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

For the people and by the people.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I think the naive are being played by many organizations that seek power. 

Everyone doesn’t want justice. Most want something, but I don’t think that it is justice. Political parties want power. Religious organizations want membership, influence, and money. Looters want any items they can carry. Farmers want a good crop year. 

Justice isn’t at the top of most lists. 

Just a cynical zen thought.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Justice isn’t at the top of most lists


That's the problem.
No zen intended.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Perhaps part of the problem is the "I want it now" mindset that has developed over recent years. The system is in place for justice for all, but it moves slowly. Part of the dumbing down of America via television, the internet, and news entertainment.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Is it a problem?

When has justice EVER been at the top of the list for the majority of human beings?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SRSLADE said:


> It's not overblown.
> The people around the world want justice.
> For everyone. Fairly.


Wish we could get it. Hopefully we will. Perhaps the rioters looting, burning and killing need to be held to justice for all of us. Thankfully many are on film. I suspect we will not get justice for everyone fairly or other wise.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I think the naive are being played by many organizations that seek power.
> 
> Everyone doesn’t want justice. Most want something, but I don’t think that it is justice. Political parties want power. Religious organizations want membership, influence, and money. Looters want any items they can carry. Farmers want a good crop year.
> 
> ...


Thank you


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Is it a problem?
> 
> When has justice EVER been at the top of the list for the majority of human beings?


 I don't know if it was at the top of their list, but the framers of our constitution put together a pretty decent plan, IMHO.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I think the naive are being played by many organizations that seek power.
> 
> Everyone doesn’t want justice. Most want something, but I don’t think that it is justice. Political parties want power. Religious organizations want membership, influence, and money. Looters want any items they can carry. Farmers want a good crop year.
> 
> ...


I agree.
I think if people truly wanted justice they wouldn’t make up their minds ahead of seeing what the actual evidence in a given situation actually is.
Isn’t it amazing that you can predict what each “side” will see as the “truth” long before the real truth comes out?
I think most folks want to see their own bias confirmed.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Yep. Good example below. A white, deranged, hate filled liberal attacks an 82 year old Veteran and body slams him and kicks him over his political affiliation.
The "Justice for all" Mouseketeers here just wet their thumb and keep scrolling past stories like this until they find their confirmation bias somewhere else. Then they can come back with their "Aha see?" screeching.
They want their own tippy cup of justice.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/massachu...violently-assaulted-by-motorist-27-police-say


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Redlands Okie said:


> Wish we could get it. Hopefully we will. Perhaps the rioters looting, burning and killing need to be held to justice for all of us. Thankfully many are on film. I suspect we will not get justice for everyone fairly or other wise.


I wish too. Lets all work together to get the change we need.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Perhaps some of you have heard this before. It’s part of my Been There / Done That / Didn’t Work collection.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

SRSLADE said:


> It's not overblown.
> The people around the world want justice.
> For everyone. Fairly.



I don’t understand you. You talk in circles I don’t understand. I tried a conversation in this thread, and you replied with gate and labeling aimed at me.

so I don’t know what to do but shrug my shoulders and walk away from this goofy conversation. There is nothing to be learned from or taught to you. From my perspective, you are the labels you place on others. You must be using us as a mirror of your own feelings, seeing yourself.

I say this not with anger. I waited a day to form a calm response. I want to try to interact with intelligent people on this subject.

Almost one wants justice actually. Some want revenge, some want free TVs, some want to wreck everything. I really see very little evidence of any group wanting actual justice. I note many of the looters and rioters are white and other ethnic backgrounds, so unlike your racial replies, I’m looking at people, not a color.

Justice would be the groups coming together and changing things. 

Community leaders could lead their communities to use less drugs, steal less TVs, be better fathers to their children. Police could interact better with the citizens and use less force and care about people rather than their safety at every shadow.

instead, we get foolish nonsense about disbanding police, after a week of looting, violence, maygam, and ‘buck police’ written on about every possible surface one could find to spray paint. Well they aren’t using the word buck. It has been difficult for tv to find scenes they can televise, as they feel the need to cleanse their videos. Take a look at some raw video of the neiborhoods.

justice? That is what the police were all about for decades.

A brotherhood protecting their own?

there certainly is. Every video of a police arrest has a historical mob of people circling around the scene shouting and being belligerent.

how about some justice, how about some fair play? I would be all for it.

I don’t expect you to understand anything I’ve said. We are different, somehow, and don’t have a clue what the other is trying to say.

that is unfortunate.

I wanted to share my view for those who care. As difficult as it is to put such a large issue into just a few words.

end of the day people want to feel safe.

these riots seem to be about people that steal and are high on drugs wanting to have that lifestyle without any interference. I don’t understand or agree with that goal.

I want a good neighborhood and a safe place to live, and that is 99% with law enforcement keeping the chaos, drugs, and theft away.

I can’t see how or why anyone would want anything different.

you And the wandering rioters want to tell me to throw away my 99% so your 1% can do all the robberies and drugs their heart desires.

it makes no sense.

I wish we could spend time trying to fix the 1% that is bad; but your side doesn’t care to even discuss what I think is the important part of this.

you represent chaos and bad to me.

but, up you have a good day anyhow, and I will just move on and ignore this topic. It seems obvious your side is not interested in solving problems or creating justice. Just noise and chaos and wants nothing improved. I can’t do it one sided, your side would need to meet and come to the issue of justice with me.

too much hate.

Paul


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

HDRider said:


> I disagree. The issue of black people being targeted, or disproportionally killed by police is a lie.


Not entirely. If you commit crimes out of proportion to the general population, you will be targeted out of proportion to the general population. Thirteen percent of the population commit sixty percent of the crime, and then claim that they are being discriminated against because they are charged with the crimes. Well bless their hearts.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

gilberte said:


> I don't know if it was at the top of their list, but the framers of our constitution put together a pretty decent plan, IMHO.


I agree that the constitution is just about the best thing we have going for us, but it was not perfect. 

In the spirit of debate, I offer these items as rebuttal. 

1. Slavery was not prohibited by the constitution. 
2. Equal rights for women and minorities were not mandated. 
3. Native Americans were slaughtered, relocated, and cheated for a LONG time after the constitution was written. 

I am sure folks here can further the discussion. Googling the failures of the US Constitution leads to fascinating reading.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

rambler said:


> I want a good neighborhood and a safe place to live, and that is 99% with law enforcement keeping the chaos, drugs, and theft away.


At least for me and mine that statement above is what we want. 

What I see is we are on a very slippery slope. I see a place where a video comes out and a person is tried and convicted on the spot. For the most part I don't see protests I see lynch mobs out for blood. I see humans demanding other humans kneel before them based on their skin color. I see people with way too much time on their hands.

As said above if people want change we need to do this within our own community's. The only demands that I seen on fixing this problem is getting rid of the cops. Ok, fine does that mean everyone then takes justice as they see it into their own hands?

I asked before of what evidence that this was racially motivated on the cops part, I really wanted to know if I missed some information. I don't think I have.

We have so much here in America. Can some things improve. Sure, there is always room for improvement, but I think we are going the wrong way here.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

muleskinner2 said:


> Not entirely. If you commit crimes out of proportion to the general population, you will be targeted out of proportion to the general population. Thirteen percent of the population commit sixty percent of the crime, and then claim that they are being discriminated against because they are charged with the crimes. Well bless their hearts.


I agree, at least on the surface level of that thought.

The killing of black folks by police is largely a trumped up issue. Per-capita, black folks are killed more often, but per-crime committed, they’re equally represented. And, when you compare the relative poverty rates, poor black folks commit crime at about the same rate as poor white, green, and purple... and end up killed by cops at roughly the same rates. 

What we’re left with is that *poor folk commit more crimes, and criminals are more likely to die at the hands of the police*. That’s an unfortunate equity, but one that I can live with.

That said, we take a hard right turn at: “_If you commit crimes out of proportion to the general population, you will be targeted out of proportion to the general population._”

Yes, if an individual commits crimes (out of proportion to the gen pop) then it’s reasonable to expect to be targeted by the police. What’s not ok, in any way shape or form, is for _individuals_ of one’s own color committing crimes that result in the “targeting” of others of that same skin color. That’s not ok, and that’s not how our justice system is supposed to work.

I don’t know how you intended that part, so I’m not going to make any assumptions. I’m just pointing out that that sentiment lies very close to a logical line that could be either true and constructive, or false and very dangerous to liberty.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I agree that the constitution is just about the best thing we have going for us, but it was not perfect.
> 
> In the spirit of debate, I offer these items as rebuttal.
> 
> ...


Perfection like many imaginary conditions, is in the eye of the beholder. When imperfections were found in the US Constitution they were changed, or amended. And then, slowly peoples opinions changed. Slowly, as in an ongoing process.

For instance. That racism is a bad thing, is a widely held opinion. Widely held or not, it is still an opinion. An opinion by the way, with no scientific basis. But then opinions are usually based on emotion not science. Webster defines racism as: "The notion that one's ethnic stock is superior." Criminal acts committed upon one's notions or opinions are criminal acts, and should be judged accordingly. Not based upon one's thought process. If we adhere to the notion that a crime can be a race crime, soon we will have thought crimes. Should we ban thoughts, and free speech? Then notions, and last you will not be allowed an opinion. Some might argue, we are already there.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Just looking for justice?:
https://www.wmar2news.com/news/regi...an-punch-sergeant-backup-officer-hitting-back

"BALTIMORE — Baltimore Police have released body worn camera footage of a May 29 incident that first began circulating on social media.

In the video, a woman is seen punching a police sergeant two times in the face as he tries taking her into custody. A backup officer then clotheslines the woman to the ground.

The officers reaction grew quick criticism on social media resulting in Commissioner Michael Harrison to suspend the officer's police powers and order an internal investigation.

Newly released footage from the officers perspective show a little different story."


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I’m just pointing out that that sentiment lies very close to a logical line that could be either true and constructive, or false and very dangerous to liberty.


Yes, it is a very fine line. A line that police walk every day, and when one of them cross that line they should be punished. But who draws the line? The letter of the law, politicians, or public opinion. No one seems interested in the law, and politicians and public opinion change their stance on any given thing daily.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I believe by now, most members should understand the rule about posting politics in GC.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

And the line moves.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Muleskinner, you hit the nail with the hammer.

“Webster defines racism as: "The notion that one's ethnic stock is superior."”

I posit that the sociological norm known as ethnocentrism is why humans will NEVER be peaceful. We all act on our beliefs, and some beliefs are based on the normal human need and tendency to bond with a group.

Ethnocentrism- the belief in the inherent superiority of one's own ethnic group or culture.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Every one should keep in mind that the legal system and justice often times has little to do with each other.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

One problem that will be around for quite some time I suspect is that people and many other creatures tend to associate with others that with similar life’s and opinions. Some will use the racist issue every chance they get, often times with little actual justification.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Normal human behavior. The inherent need to belong comes close after the need for safety. That will not change.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Lies on the internet, traveling at the speed of light.
> They still *pretend *the Floyd incident had something to do with "race".


I think that many are are smart enough to admit that on face value it appears that _"race"_ was a factor. Whether it was the primary factor is still *unknown*. Chauvin's history of complaints vs. arrests indicate that at the very least he was potentially more aggressive with black persons. It would be interesting to see the demographics of the areas where he patrolled to compare the number of complaints and arrests in primarily black areas and primarily white areas. 



Bearfootfarm said:


> No one was "murdered".
> Floyd died from heart failure.
> He was showing symptoms before they had him on the ground.


*Homicide* is simply the killing of one person by another. ... *Murder* is a *homicide *committed with “malice aforethought.” That doesn't mean it is a malicious killing. Malice aforethought is the common law way of saying that it is an *unjustified killing*.

Are you saying that Mr. Floyd's death was in some way justified??? or that three persons (assumably near 600 lbs combined weight) kneeling on Mr. Floyd'd neck, chest and thorax didn't play a large role in his death. Two coroners have said otherwise.

Yes, Mr. Floyd died from heart failure... everybody does... if your heart doesn't fail (stop beating) you are still alive. The important part is what caused the heart failure. Maybe his heart disease made his breathing more difficult, though the coroners say his heart disease was mild to moderate at time of death. The fact is that if Chauvin (and the others) had not constricted air and blood flow it is likely that Mr. Chauvin would still be alive. The officers used deadly force where and when it was not justified.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

rambler said:


> I don’t understand you. You talk in circles I don’t understand. I tried a conversation in this thread, and you replied with gate and labeling aimed at me.
> 
> so I don’t know what to do but shrug my shoulders and walk away from this goofy conversation. There is nothing to be learned from or taught to you. From my perspective, you are the labels you place on others. You must be using us as a mirror of your own feelings, seeing yourself.
> 
> ...


None of my comments were aimed at you.
I'm sorry you took it that way.

I also want to live in a crime free area and I do credit the police with all the great work they do.
I have no interest in de-funding any police department as we would then have chaos.

We can disagree but please don't paint with too broad a brush when it comes to what people do and do not believe.

Looting, burning and chaos is counter to protest meant to bring about change we can all get behind.
Many people are doing just that with peaceful protest.

I agree that much of the anger seen around the world is about income disparity.

When you judge my replies please keep an open mind and judge what i'm relying to and not just what you agree with.

Have a peaceful evening. I bet we agree on many things.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

homesteadforty said:


> Chauvin's history of complaints vs. arrests indicate that at the very least he was *potentially* *more aggressive with black persons*.


I've not seen any evidence of that.
"Potentially" sound like speculation instead of data.



homesteadforty said:


> Are you saying that Mr. Floyd's death was in some way justified??? or that three persons (assumably near 600 lbs combined weight) kneeling on Mr. Floyd'd neck, chest and thorax didn't play a large role in his death. Two coroners have said otherwise.


I'm saying "homicide" isn't a "cause of death" nor indication of any crime.
It's simply a legal term. 

A sober, healthy person most likely wouldn't have died from being restrained in the same manner.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

homesteadforty said:


> Yes, Mr. Floyd died from heart failure... everybody does... if your heart doesn't fail (stop beating) you are still alive. The important part is *what caused the heart failure*.


They found *no physical evidence of asphyxiation or strangulation*, so I'd say one main cause was the opioids and his preexisting conditions. It was the totality, not just one thing. The LEO's had no logical reason to think he would die or even suffer any lasting injury from being held down in that manner. 

He was showing symptoms *before* he was held.



homesteadforty said:


> The officers *used deadly force* where and when it was not justified.


Holding someone on the ground is not "deadly force" in a legal sense.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

If someone is having trouble breathing a knee to the neck seems like odd assistance.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

homesteadforty said:


> I think that many are are smart enough to admit that *on face value* it appears that _"race"_ was a factor.


I've seen no *evidence* race actually had anything to do with this incident.
It wasn't some random stop.

It's just being used, because "you can't let a good crisis go to waste".


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> *“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”*
> 
> ― Jesse Jackson


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

He is showing symptoms and then you hold him down with a knee to his neck. Yah, just not an acceptable thing to do.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

homesteadforty said:


> I think that many are are smart enough to admit that on face value it appears that _"race"_ was a factor. Whether it was the primary factor is still *unknown*. Chauvin's history of complaints vs. arrests indicate that at the very least he was potentially more aggressive with black persons. It would be interesting to see the demographics of the areas where he patrolled to compare the number of complaints and arrests in primarily black areas and primarily white areas.
> The fact is that if Chauvin (and the others) had not constricted air and blood flow it is likely that Mr. Chauvin would still be alive. The officers used deadly force where and when it was not justified.


. 

I have to disagree, on face value I see a cop that was trying to arrest someone that may have committed a crime. It seems to me that he was rough on the gentleman but the guy on the ground was not coopering very well either. I see two humans making poor choices in the heat of the moment. 

It is not a fact that the way he was treated led up to his death. I am sure there are criminals that are treated much rougher by cops that live to tell the tale. The fact is he was saying he was having a hard time breathing the cops called an ambulance as was waiting for it. They tried to get him into the cop car and he fought him.

Now I am not sure at what point he was starting to complain about breathing problems, but I am sure the cops have heard all kinds of tales by people to get them to loosen their hold so they could then attack the cop again.

Also, if your going to start just looking at sats in white vs black and not looking at other factors. Like which areas dislike cops more, area's more likely to kill a cop etc. Well, it will get to the point that cops will not go into those area's as they don't want to end up in jail and the criminal elements really know how to work the system. I don't know about you but I don't want to live in a place where the gangs run the place. Justice there would be swift but I doubt it would be "fair".


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> He is showing symptoms and then you hold him down with a knee to his neck. Yah, just *not an acceptable thing to do*.


It is if he's still being combative and acting erratically.
It's as much for his own protection as for that of the LEO's.
This too is in the documentation.

*"Excited delirium*, also known as *agitated delirium*, is a condition that presents with psychomotor agitation, delirium, and sweating.[1] *It may include attempts at violence*, unexpected strength, and very high body temperature.[3] Complications may include rhabdomyolysis or high blood potassium.[1]"


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

He was dead for a few minutes before the knee was removed.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

homesteadforty said:


> That doesn't mean it is a malicious killing. Malice aforethought is the common law way of saying that it is an *unjustified killing*.


Actually that is exactly what it means. Malice means, well malice. And aforethought means you thought it out {planned it in advance. That makes it a malicious killing. Sometimes referred to as 1st degree murder. A spur of the moment thing, where there was no planning or aforethought is sometimes called 2nd degree murder. The officer was charged with 2nd degree murder. Because the prosecution doesn't have to prove that he planned it. Just that he knew or should of known that his actions might prove fatal. The burden of proof is less, and easier to get a conviction.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> He was dead for a few minutes before the knee was removed.


You have no way of *knowing* that.
You just want it to be true.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You have no way of *knowing* that.
> You just want it to be true.


Right back at you, The same person who said hold on we don't have all the info yet. Yet here you are telling us what happened and even if we did it see with our own eyes what we are using to form our own opinions. How about you take your own advice instead of floating what ifs.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Yet here you are telling us what happened


I've posted links to documents and videos that support what I said.



painterswife said:


> How about you take your own advice instead of *floating what ifs*


Nothing I've said even vaguely resembles "what if..".
Have a good night


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Right back at you, The same person who said hold on we don't have all the info yet. Yet here you are telling us what happened and even if we did it see with our own eyes what we are using to form our own opinions. How about you take your own advice instead of floating what ifs.


I don't see anyone tell you what happened and to do so would be foolish. No member here claims to have worked on the case, nobody here has claimed to have performed the autopsy and nobody has conclusively pinpointed the exact time of death as it relates to the video.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Oooooooommmmmmm


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## aart (Oct 20, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> No one was "murdered".
> Floyd died from heart failure.
> He was showing symptoms before they had him on the ground.


He wouldn't have died without the knee on his neck. Maybe not murder but definitely manslaughter and undue force.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Oooooooommmmmmm


I thought it was ooooohhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, like ohm stretched out


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)




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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Good discussion.

People being people cause problems

People trying to change people from being people cause problems

With everything said, whomever had the power to organize these protests all over the world, also had the power to create a pandemic in our minds.

Something is going on around here


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

BUFFALO, NY (CNN/WKBW) — A teenager in Buffalo, New York spent over 10 hours cleaning up his community after a long night of protests last week, and received a new car from a complete stranger.

Antonio Gwynn watched protests in his community take place over Facebook Live. When he saw some demonstrations become destructive, he wanted to help. So the 18-year-old left his house in the middle of the night and spent the next ten hours cleaning up his community.

When Matt Block heard of Gwynn’s act of community kindness, he gifted him with his treasured 2004 convertible Mustang. “I couldn’t come to grips with selling it, and this was a good way for me to get rid of it and know someone that gets it is going to appreciate it, I think,” Block said.

An insurance company, Briceland Insurance Agency, then stepped in to cover Gwynn’s insurance for one year.

That’s not all. Gwynn says he’s been offered a full ride to Medaille College.

“I literally stopped, pulled over, and started crying,” Gwynn said. “So did my great aunt. My little cousin did also.”

Gwynn’s original plan was to go to trade school as he saved up for college. Now, he can complete that goal right away by studying business and studying mechanics on the side. “I always wanted to be someone that can help everyone with their car problems,” he said. “This is a great opportunity I have right in front of me.”


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> I don't see anyone tell you what happened and to do so would be foolish. No member here claims to have worked on the case, nobody here has claimed to have performed the autopsy and nobody has conclusively pinpointed the exact time of death as it relates to the video.


"*About six minutes into that period, Mr Floyd became non-responsive. In videos of the incident, this was when Mr Floyd fell silent, as bystanders urged the officers to check his pulse.

One of the other officers, JA Kueng, did just that, checking Mr Floyd's right wrist, but "couldn't find one*". Yet the other officers did not move.

At 20:27, Mr Chauvin removed his knee from Mr Floyd's neck. Motionless, Mr Floyd was rolled on to a gurney and taken to the Hennepin County Medical Center in an ambulance."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52861726

A pulse was not found at about 6 minutes. I suspect that the bodycam footage from the officers just might back this up. No help was rendered at this time.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

HDRider said:


> BUFFALO, NY (CNN/WKBW) — A teenager in Buffalo, New York spent over 10 hours cleaning up his community after a long night of protests last week, and received a new car from a complete stranger.
> 
> Antonio Gwynn watched protests in his community take place over Facebook Live. When he saw some demonstrations become destructive, he wanted to help. So the 18-year-old left his house in the middle of the night and spent the next ten hours cleaning up his community.
> 
> ...


This is how you fix a community. With no thought of reward, camera's rolling...It takes doing, not standing blocking people on highways or sitting holding signs about what you don't like. If all those people would go and do something to help where they live rather then stand around and complain think of what a great place it would be.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Ziptie said:


> This is how you fix a community. With no thought of reward, camera's rolling...It takes doing, not standing blocking people on highways or sitting holding signs about what you don't like. If all those people would go and do something to help where they live rather then stand around and complain think of what a great place it would be.


Exactly.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> "*About six minutes into that period, Mr Floyd became non-responsive. In videos of the incident, this was when Mr Floyd fell silent, as bystanders urged the officers to check his pulse.
> 
> One of the other officers, JA Kueng, did just that, checking Mr Floyd's right wrist, but "couldn't find one*". Yet the other officers did not move.
> 
> ...


You can bold and shout all you want but non responsive is not always dead. The thing you're missing is that most people agree that there is a huge problem with the situation and but it needs to be dealt with in a courtroom, where all the evidence is presented rather than all the evidence we think we need. 

Insulting people for indicating that guilty or innocence is established in courtrooms just hampers due process and does nothing for the victim.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

It has to get to a courtroom first and without the videos of this posted on the net and news it might not have.

I am posting my opinion and backing it up with why I formed that opinion. This is not a court of law. This is a forum. It is all about our opinions.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

aart said:


> *He wouldn't have died without the knee* on his neck. Maybe not murder but definitely manslaughter and undue force.


That's speculation.
He was showing symptoms before then.

He had Fentanyl and Morphine in his system.
He was being combative and acting erratically.
There was nothing "undue" about the force used to subdue him.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

painterswife said:


> "*About six minutes into that period, Mr Floyd became non-responsive. In videos of the incident, this was when Mr Floyd fell silent, as bystanders urged the officers to check his pulse.
> 
> One of the other officers, JA Kueng, did just that, checking Mr Floyd's right wrist, but "couldn't find one*". Yet the other officers did not move.
> 
> ...


Being unresponsive does not equal death...nor does the police officer not having been able to have felt a pulse. Someone can be unresponsive and have no discernible peripheral pulse and still be alive.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> No help was rendered at this time.


Help was on the way.



painterswife said:


> It is all about our *opinions*.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Where are the protesters for this man?

ST. LOUIS — A retired St. Louis police captain and municipal chief was shot to death by looters at a St. Louis pawn shop early Tuesday, and his killing apparently was broadcast on Facebook Live.

David Dorn, 77, was shot in the torso about 2:30 a.m. He died on the sidewalk in front of the shop, Lee’s Pawn & Jewelry, at 4123 Martin Luther King Drive.









David Dorn, in a 2008 photo when Dorn became police chief of Moline Acres. (Scott Bandle, Suburban Journals, via STLtoday.com)

Police have made no arrests and said they have no suspects. A reward for information leading to an arrest had climbed to $46,000 by Friday afternoon.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/retired-police-captain-shot-to-death-at-st-louis-pawn-shop-in-slaying-caught-on/article_d482138c-0224-5393-bd87-9898bebb3fd1.html


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> One of the other officers, JA Kueng, did just that, checking Mr Floyd's right wrist, but "couldn't find one". *Yet the other officers did not move.*


They also gave a logical *reason* for that, which has been explained more than once in this thread:



Bearfootfarm said:


> *"Excited delirium*, also known as *agitated delirium*, is a condition that presents with psychomotor agitation, delirium, and sweating.[1] *It may include attempts at violence*, unexpected strength, and very high body temperature.[3] Complications may include rhabdomyolysis or high blood potassium.[1]"


"The officers said, “You are talking fine” to Mr. Floyd as he continued to move back and forth. Lane asked, “should we roll him on his side?” and the defendant said, “No, *staying put where we got him*.” Officer Lane said, “*I am worried about excited delirium or whatever.*” The defendant said, “*That’s why we have him on his stomach.”* "


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Another example of another liberal white racist trying to speak up for blacks who didn't ask for it.
The famous and wildly influential Tom Arnold is calling on white people to borrow their dad's guns and go toe to toe with the police and the government.
Colin Noir, a black man, responds to Mr. Arnold.
"Bro, Relax. We are black men not children. We don't need your help owning guns..."
https://www.mom-at-arms.com/post/gun-control-activist-tom-arnold-calls-for-armed-defiance


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

no really said:


> Where are the protesters for this man?
> 
> ST. LOUIS — A retired St. Louis police captain and municipal chief was shot to death by looters at a St. Louis pawn shop early Tuesday, and his killing apparently was broadcast on Facebook Live.
> 
> ...


None of the pro riot crowd here seem to care an iota about Mr. Dorn.
He laid on that sidewalk and bled out while onlookers felt it was too important to record his death rather than issue any help to him.
He doesn't fit inside their ideological box nor does he forward their cause.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

GTX63 said:


> Another example of another liberal white racist trying to speak up for blacks who didn't ask for it.
> The famous and wildly influential Tom Arnold is calling on white people to borrow their dad's guns and go toe to toe with the police and the government.
> Colin Noir, a black man, responds to Mr. Arnold.
> "Bro, Relax. We are black men not children. We don't need your help owning guns..."
> https://www.mom-at-arms.com/post/gun-control-activist-tom-arnold-calls-for-armed-defiance


Why don't Tom grab his dad's gun and jump on out in front? That would have been more sincere than trying to get kids to do it.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

no really said:


> Where are the protesters for this man?
> 
> ST. LOUIS — A retired St. Louis police captain and municipal chief was shot to death by looters at a St. Louis pawn shop early Tuesday, and his killing apparently was broadcast on Facebook Live.
> 
> ...


He will be largely forgotten by next week. I'm guessing they released his name only because he wasn't white. The rest they won't even say the names.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> He will be largely forgotten by next week. I'm guests they released his name only because he wasn't white. The rest they won't even say the names.


Yep, his death doesn't support the narrative. Nor do all the others killed by black on black crime.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

mreynolds said:


> Why don't Tom grab his dad's gun and jump on out in front? That would have been more sincere than trying to get kids to do it.


Because like most of the Leftists, he's a coward.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> Why don't Tom grab his dad's gun and jump on out in front? That would have been more sincere than trying to get kids to do it.


That is example of my previous comments about not wanting others to be my voice. 

It's degrading that some feel I need a white person to speak on my behalf and I find it frightening that those who feel the need to speak loudest believe that hate, ugliness and brutality are the message I want sent.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

mreynolds said:


> Why don't Tom grab his dad's gun and jump on out in front? That would have been more sincere than trying to get kids to do it.


He is anti gun and he refers to "Hollywood libs" in his tweets, so it sounds like he needs a little help from those who don't share
his core principals.


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

HDRider said:


> I went back to understand about the 17. I am not sure where that came from. Sorry about that.
> 
> I was focused on unarmed people killed.



These stats say something else about unarmed people

https://public.tableau.com/shared/PGBTK9959?:display_count=y&:origin=viz_share_link

It shows that the killing of unarmed people have dropped from 2015 (219 people) to 2019 (114 people) which is a good thing


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

no really said:


> Where are the protesters for this man?


They got the killer:







https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...g-retired-police-captain-david-dorn-in-riots/
"A convicted felon has been charged with murdering St. Louis, Missouri, 77-year-old retired police captain David Dorn during riots in the city last week.

The St. Louis Police Department announced Sunday that 24-year-old convicted felon Stephan Cannon has been arrested and charged with first-degree murder, first-degree robbery, first-degree burglary, armed criminal action, and *unlawfully possessing a firearm* after he allegedly murdered Dorn.

On June 2, according to police, Dorn was guarding Lee’s Pawn and Jewelry in St. Louis while riots, fires, and looting broke out. Surveillance footage, police said, shows Dorn arriving at the pawn shop, which had already been looted by Cannon and other men.

That is when Cannon can allegedly be seen on the footage approaching the corner of the pawn shop with a gun, and it is at this time that Dorn was shot, killed, and left on the sidewalk bleeding.

*While searching Cannon’s residence, St. Louis police officers recovered a TV that had been looted from the pawn shop that night. *Cannon is currently being held without bail.

Dorn had served nearly 40 years with the St. Louis Police Department before retiring in 2007. Dorn also served as police chief in the small town of Moline Acres, Missouri."

If we only had more gun control laws................


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

glad they caught him.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They got the killer:
> View attachment 88052
> 
> https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...g-retired-police-captain-david-dorn-in-riots/
> ...



Yep...definitely defund and dissolve police departments.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Great news!!!


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

susieneddy said:


> These stats say something else about unarmed people
> 
> https://public.tableau.com/shared/PGBTK9959?:display_count=y&:origin=viz_share_link


I think the issue we are discussing is deaths that are unwarranted. Police have close to 350 million interactions with civilians per year and the actual number of unwarranted deaths is very small and IMO is not as bad as what the MSM is proclaiming.

Any death by homicide is wrong and should be prosecuted. !

As for Mr. Floyd, I will wait to see what the jury decides based on the evidence. It appears more people have been murdered in these protests/riots than are killed wrongly by police in a year. 

Hundreds of lives are being destroyed in these protests/riots. It breaks my heart to see the destruction being done to the black community by blacks and some morons. I saw an elderly lady crying about the store where she bought groceries being destroyed and she had no idea where she could buy food at a reasonable price. A new food desert has been seeded!!
Hundreds of minority business were wiped out. WHY? !!


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

po boy said:


> Hundreds of lives are being destroyed in these protests/riots. It breaks my heart to see the destruction being done to the black community by blacks and some morons. I saw an elderly lady crying about the store where she bought groceries being destroyed and she had no idea where she could buy food at a reasonable price. A new food desert has been seeded!!
> Hundreds of minority business were wiped out. WHY? !!


The greater good my dear fellow.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> It has to get to a courtroom first and without the videos of this posted on the net and news it might not have.
> 
> I am posting my opinion and backing it up with why I formed that opinion. This is not a court of law. This is a forum. It is all about our opinions.


Give it a rest. Please. I want to talk about riots.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I want to talk about all the peaceful protest going on around the country.
Then we can talk about all the bad actors causing riots.
I can give examples.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

SRSLADE said:


> I want to talk about all the peaceful protest going on around the country.
> Then we can talk about all the bad actors causing riots.
> I can give examples.


Here is a link to start a thread on that subject. Anyone can do it.
https://www.homesteadingtoday.com/forums/general-chat.13/


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> I want to talk about all the peaceful protest going on around the country.
> Then we can talk about all the bad actors causing riots.
> I can give examples.


Start a thread. Be nice to see you do something beside snipe


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

HDRider said:


> *PARIS, FRANCE*
> *
> 
> 
> ...


 That`s sure to bring out the murder hornets...…..not what the overseers like to see.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Start a thread. Be nice to see you do something beside snipe


We've all seen how well it goes when someone with a consistently different outlook tries to start a thread about something they care about and the majority doesn't. It's a waste of time, usually.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> We've all seen how well it goes when someone with a consistently different outlook tries to start a thread about something they care about and the majority doesn't. It's a waste of time, usually.


But there is already a thread about protests. It's right there in the title. It's still in GC even.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

mreynolds said:


> But there is already a thread about protests. It's right there in the title. It's still in GC even.


Was it a "pro protest" thread? I don't believe they are a member with a consistently different outlook. In my opinion anyway.

ETA: Did you read the thread? I just went back to reread it. Name calling, belittling, all the usual by the usual suspects.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> Was it a "pro protest" thread? I don't believe they are a member with a consistently different outlook. In my opinion anyway.
> 
> ETA: Did you read the thread? I just went back to reread it. Name calling, belittling, all the usual by the usual suspects.


There will be no consensus on any topic here I'm sure. Even making bread. (Btw, I'm pro bread) 

I've been called names on here before too. I just consider the source and go on. Wine is not a good color on me. 

He says he wants to talk about the protests but all he mentioned on that thread was a cryptic one liner. It takes more than one sentence to discuss anything. It's what we need right now in the whole of America. If some of my fellow Americans are justifiably hurt or are in pain that would be the first thing I would want to do. We need to find out what can be done and then do it. Calling names and laying blame on everyone else that is not collective you is not the type of dialogue we need imo.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Synopsis: The man who was killed was a career criminal. The man who killed him has been charged, will be tried and go to prison. The riots will eventually stop. People will try to rebuild their burnt and vandalized businesses. Life will go on until some SJW gets their feelings hurt. And there will be two or three people who actually believe justice was done. And most importantly America can get back to watching Dancing With The Stars.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> Synopsis: The man who was killed was a career criminal. The man who killed him has been charged, will be tried and go to prison. The riots will eventually stop. People will try to rebuild their burnt and vandalized businesses. Life will go on until some SJW gets their feelings hurt. And there will be two or three people who actually believe justice was done. And most importantly America can get back to watching Dancing With The Stars.


That is good for as far as it goes.

This movement will not go away. I am not sure what it will mature into. Too much media, too many corporations and too many politicians from small towns to DC have lined up behind it. Some see it as a reformative event. Not sure what reformation looks like.

Now, back to Dancing With The Stars


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

mreynolds said:


> There will be no consensus on any topic here I'm sure. Even making bread. (Btw, I'm pro bread)
> 
> I've been called names on here before too. I just consider the source and go on. Wine is not a good color on me.
> 
> He says he wants to talk about the protests but all he mentioned on that thread was a cryptic one liner. It takes more than one sentence to discuss anything. It's what we need right now in the whole of America. If some of my fellow Americans are justifiably hurt or are in pain that would be the first thing I would want to do. We need to find out what can be done and then do it. Calling names and laying blame on everyone else that is not collective you is not the type of dialogue we need imo.


I agree with you, it's absolutely what we need as a country. 

Why do you think that member (and others who don't share the majority's opinion) wouldn't want to continue the discussion?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> I agree with you, it's absolutely what we need as a country.
> 
> Why do you think that member (and others who don't share the majority's opinion) wouldn't want to continue the discussion?


Is victim hood the only hat you have?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Is victim hood the only hat you have?


Is name calling and belittling the only hat you have?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Is name calling and belittling the only hat you have?


I wear many hats.

I have shoes to match. I use them to walk toward things I like to challenge.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> I agree with you, it's absolutely what we need as a country.
> 
> Why do you think that member (and others who don't share the majority's opinion) wouldn't want to continue the discussion?


I have seen maybe 3 posts from that member that even begin to discuss anything in GC. The rest are drive by little snips at others. If he wants to discuss then he should just wade right in.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

SRSLADE said:


> I wish too. Lets all work together to get the change we need.


Who said " as long as there are two humans on earth there will be war" 

A. Einstein.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

101pigs said:


> Who said " as long as there are two humans on earth there will be war"


It was the third human waiting to see who wins to pick a side.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> *We've all seen* how well it goes when someone with *a consistently different outlook* tries to start a thread about something they care about and the majority doesn't. It's a waste of time, usually.


We've all seen everything too.
It's pretty much the same all the time.



Irish Pixie said:


> Why do you think that member (and others who don't share the majority's opinion) wouldn't want to continue the discussion?


They didn't want to "discuss" in the first place.
Just like they *still* aren't "discussing" the actual topic they claimed they wanted to "discuss".



> SRSLADE said: ↑
> I wish too. Lets all work together to get the change we need.


Lead by example.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I wear many hats.
> 
> I have shoes to match. I use them to walk toward things I like to challenge.


I understand exactly why you do it...


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> I understand exactly why you do it...


Tell why you think I do "it"


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Tell why you think I do "it"


Playing games to cover up your true feelings, of course. The ugly isn't allowed to be actually said, but can be played with carefully. Just my opinion tho, and I very well could be wrong. It's happened once or twice.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Playing games to cover up your true feelings, of course. The ugly isn't allowed to be actually said, but can be played with carefully. Just my opinion tho, and I very well could be wrong. It's happened once or twice.


I try VERY hard to show my true feelings. I would have thought you, of all people, recognized that. I am an open book.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I try VERY hard to show my true feelings. I would have thought you, of all people, recognized that. I am an open book.


That's not what I see. I see anger/ugly being held in check just under the surface. Just my opinion, of course.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> That's not what I see. I see anger/ugly being held in check just under the surface. Just my opinion, of course.


That just shows how wrong an opinion can be, no matter how firmly held that opinion might be.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> That just shows how wrong an opinion can be, no matter how firmly held that opinion might be.


It's my opinion, and I believe it wholeheartedly. ETA: Based on 9 years of reading your posts. Sorry. I never completed my thought.

Have a nice day.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> I believe it wholeheartedly.


I know you do.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I thought I was wrong once but I must have been mistaken.


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