# To Ernie and others who survive!



## Homesteader (Jul 13, 2002)

Ernie specifically: I am one of probably many who are curious about your life. I have clicked on your user name, to bring up your previous posts. It only goes to Sept. of 2013.

For any of you who have detached, unplugged mostly, could you tell us a little about how you do it?

Do you grow all your own food? Do you have pigs and cows/goats, how large are your gardens? Do you have kids at home? Do you do all types of preserving, or mainly one or two? 

I get the political/spiritual reasons, show us how you do it!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Heh. We do so little of all that still. 

We grow probably 70-80% of our food. We've not been able to produce our own dairy until very recently and still not in sufficient quantities.

This summer we ate everything and produced almost no excess, so very little got preserved. Our methods of preserving are (so far) limited to freezing and lacto-fermentation.

My garden is a little over 3000 square feet, but it wasn't very intensive last year. I planted just about every foot of it but much of what I planted didn't make it, so we ended up utilizing about half of it. There are about 8 okra plants which provided us between 2-4 POUNDS of okra every single day. That kept us fed through the summer and fall, right up to the first freeze.

My only income is knifemaking. I have a small off-grid workshop here where I make them and sell them over the internet from a couple of venues. That provides enough small income to fill in the food gaps, particularly in winter when we don't have anything growing. My wife's homeschooling curriculum has started to sell as well now and it did very good in December but we don't know how long that will last. 

I tried to do a winter garden this year, but several prolonged freezes just did it in. I have much to learn in that regard. 

We had a pig the first year but the math didn't work out in our favor. I computed the cost per pound of eating "Frank" was around $2.25. Most of the time you can find a meat source on sale for cheaper than that, so we skipped the pig for this year. A pig is a great thing to add to an already thriving homestead that is producing surplus food but not so good a thing when you have to buy food for him.

We now have two dairy goats and that's going to prove to be a big blessing. Still need some infrastructure in place to get them into full production, but I hope it pans out soon.

We have probably 40 chickens that free range around here and provide us eggs through most of the year. We don't put lights on them in winter due to the lack of electricity. 

There are 5 children here, ranging in age from 2 to 17.

I guess that covers the initial questions ... any more?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Keep in mind that we're a starting homestead. We started this about two years ago and started with nothing. Just an empty pasture. No house, no barns, no fences, no gardens.

There are more thriving homesteads out there which have been established longer, so if you're looking for the "end goal" then that's what you should look at.

If you want to know what life-in-transition looks like then that I can help with.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

So did you leave a corporate life or bedroom community lifestyle or similar? I mean, if you started with nothing two years ago, then that means there must have been some savings to build up everything to what you have now?

What you've done in two years is really interesting to me since I hope in the next couple years I can get to a similar level of sustainment.. 

My wife and I are leaving the big city with a little bit of retirement money and no jobs to hit the farm.

We plan to work jobs, but hopefully at least one of us will only have to work part time so time can be spent with the farm/land. We're going to have to be very careful with what little money we're bringing until we find employment and know we'll be making enough to cover the bare necessities. 

My wife is really wanting to find a job with the state, and then hoping that would be enough to where I can do something from home to fill in a little with money, but leave enough time for me to deal with animals and gardening and such... I like that idea, but can't imagine how one person could do so much...


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I had a very good corporate job that paid lots of money. 

We left that and I had intended to use it as a "bridge" until January 2014 (this month). Of course they had other ideas. 

It took approximately $35-40k to get set up here, much of it spent on the land and the materials to build the cabin. 

When I lost my job last year we had about $8,000 in our pockets. A series of disasters cleaned that out pretty quick and around July or so there was one day where we were down to $6. I was pretty frantic but I stayed the course and prayed a lot.

We're back on top of it now, thank God, and have had quite a bit of income show up since the beginning of November. It just poured in.

At this point I know that if I have to go get some part time job for awhile, it's only a temporary bridge and not a failure of our plans. I'm that comfortable with it now.

While one person can do more than that person realizes, you should also understand that you're harder at work NOW in your corporate life than you would ever be at a farm life. With the farming, there's not NEAR as much necessary work to be done as a lot of people pretend there is.

Most of what we hear about farming being hard work comes from the _corporate farmers_, who have hundreds of acres of some crop that they are producing to sell. When you're producing for your own subsistence, you won't find yourself working that hard.

My typical day back in the summer ... get up as soon as it's light and then go work in the garden for an hour or two. Nice leisurely pace, nothing backbreaking. Then when it got too hot outside (usually by 10am or so) I'd go to the workshop, turn on a fan and work on knives in the shade. 

Most days I work about 5-6 hours of "real work" and the rest of it I just piddle away on small projects here and there. Contrast that to my corporate life when it was commonplace to work a 70-90 hour week. 

So a homesteading life is actually EASIER than corporate life, but they don't want you to know that. You'll spend less time sitting on your butt in the air conditioning and more time actually in the sun lifting stuff, but there's a lot less of the "have to do this" than there used to be.


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## Homesteader (Jul 13, 2002)

Thanks Ernie and simi - see now there's a whole world of info about you I didn't know.

Ernie where do you live, or, what type climate if you don't want to share where you are. I would have thought you'd been doing this for many more years than you have. Just from a general overall "feeling" of the posts of yours I have read.

I don't "do" Facebook, I understand you have info there, do you have pictures posted there?

End goal or beginning, doesn't matter to me, it's the journey anyway that makes a life right? I just see an uptick in interest in the homesteading way of life and even in the prepping type life and sometimes we forget that not everyone can go back and read every one's posts. Since Sept. for instance I wonder how many of your posts actually talk about these specifics. This little update on who you are and where you started for instance is very interesting and helpful!

I always look forward to reading simi's updates, and hope others here will share. Of course I imagine a lot of folks who have really unplugged, don't do the internet.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Very interesting story.. Sounds a lot like my boat... 

We were just talking a week or so ago about what it's cost us to do this.. Not including the down payment for the place, we've sunk a very easy 20K into repairs materials and tools and equipment we've needed or will need to keep the place up. We're trying to buy all we can now while we're still making money, because we know that rivers gonna stop flowing soon... We are afraid to figure what gas has cost us for 600 mile trips every other weekend in the truck to get out there and work.. 

Thankfully I've worked in construction in a past life, and was also a mechanic and welder, so I can pretty much do anything we need, but I'm finding what makes it hard is the limited strength of my wife.... Yes, we know people in the area, and have mad some decent friends with some of them,, but I don't want to be asking for help either. Part pride, and part I don't want to impose, and also I don't want to come off like I'm using them either. These people have been such a boon to us with knowledge about things we need to know about the area, and things we want to do around our place.. .

We'll be moving in with a lot undone and no cash in hand to get them done, such as having drywall or flooring.. We're good with that though... We're sure we'll eventually be able to afford it. Time is on our side int he future at least.. 

I guess maybe us being tied to our jobs still is what seems to make it seem like there's so much to get done. When we take a trip on the weekends it gives us about a day and a half to get things done, and since that's not much time,, it makes it feel overwhelming.. BUT, when we look back on what we did when we're driving back to the city, we realize we really did get more done than we thought or figured we would. I guess I can see how once we're living there, it won't seem like near as much.

It's getting down to that $6 I worry about. Making a move like this for no jobs lined up is scaring the heck outta me. I have a feeling my wife will have an easier time finding a job than I will, but who knows... Once we both get stable job and money wise, then I think will be the time to re-evaluate what kind of income we'll really need to survive.. We just want enough to keep things paid for, get what we need, and not have to work our fingers to the bone for cash... We'd rather have as much free time as possible to put towards the homestead.

So what would you say's been the most challenging about moving from working for the man, to working for yourself and trying to be sure everyone is fed and happy? Kinda sounds like gardening has been your biggest curve, and I think that's going to be the same for us.. We've both had gardens, but more for additional fresh veggies, and not to try and sustain our selves on as much as possible. I'm pretty sure we know just enough to be dangerous and end up with very little trying to over do it..


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I sometimes post pictures on Facebook, but keep in mind my principle goals with the Facebook page is to stay in touch with my customers, build tribe, and sell knives. 

I don't mind sharing where I live. I'm out in West Central Texas, near Brownwood, TX. It's sort of a hot climate. Technically considered "arid scrubland". 

Prior to moving here we had a farm in Illinois, so we've been dabbling in gardens and livestock for almost a decade, but it wasn't until we got here that we completely threw our hat into the ring.

One thing I'd like to point out ...

If anyone thinks they're going to go out in the wilderness and "survive" on their own strengths then they might as well stay in the city and save themselves the trouble. I always say that my family is not self-sufficient, we are God-sufficient. I can't make plants grow, the rains come, the fruit trees to set seed, or even get a knife to sell. ALL of those things are provided by God when you put your trust in Him.

You've been on this forum since 2002. I don't know how you managed to miss my backstory.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

If I hadn't spent time with animals, around ranches, farms, oil fields and gardens, I wouldn't even be attempting to live in the middle of the Appalachian foothills in the middle of nowhere.. 

We lived on a hog farm in Illinois before we moved to DC.. We actually miss the smell of stinky pigs while driving around sniffing bus fumes.. LOL.. .

It's interesting to hear how someone's left it all behind and works for their self... I'd love to imagine doing that, but I'm not real sure how I'd make it happen.. Lots of skills, but are they conducive to the area we'll be in, without stepping on the toes of locals trying to make a living too? Being an outsider is a huge thing to overcome too when moving to a homestead in an area you're not from..


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

simi-steading said:


> So what would you say's been the most challenging about moving from working for the man, to working for yourself and trying to be sure everyone is fed and happy? Kinda sounds like gardening has been your biggest curve, and I think that's going to be the same for us.. We've both had gardens, but more for additional fresh veggies, and not to try and sustain our selves on as much as possible. We know just enough to be dangerous and en up with very little trying to over do it..


Hrm. There's about 3 issues there rolled up into one.

Ok, first thing first ... when people say "homesteader", they immediately think of Forerunner. A man living off the land, growing all his own food and generally being excellent at all things related to self-sufficiency. That's not me. I don't think it took me very long to realize that I wasn't going to be Timothy and I certainly was going to have to figure out who Ernie was.

I'm a craftsman. In all likelihood, I wouldn't have been that guy out in the deep wilderness carving a living out of the wild. I would have been the blacksmith in the frontier town. I'm a social creature, I like people, I like being around (most) people, and the things I love to do most require some interaction with people. 

But that's a viable model of homesteading too, I think. You're becoming non-reliant on the government and corporations and becoming more a part of a simple and organic community.

The two biggest mental hurdles for me have been time management and worrying. 

I think I am a worrier by nature. I worry about whether it's going to rain, whether it's going to be too hot or too cold, whether my knives will sell, or whether today will be the day the government shows up to kill me. It takes a very constant act of will to turn my mind away from all these worries (that I can't control) and to stay focused on the Lord. All over my farm and workshop I have little signs up that I've made that contain various bible verses that deal with worry and stress.

Time management has been (and still is) a very big issue here. I am very bad about just doing whatever is needful at the moment instead of getting ahead of the curve and getting it out of the way. For instance, we've got about 3 more nights worth of firewood right now. I had the money and time to get more earlier on, but I didn't (for various reasons). So now I'm waiting for my friend to call me back and bring some wood over. And I have no idea if he's alive, sick, or perhaps the government has finally caught up to him and he's been deported. 

When I look at things clearly, I can see that I was crippled mentally early on by my corporate life. I never saw the big picture, I only did what I was told and what was needful at the moment. 20 years of doing that sort of trains your brain AWAY from the skills of running your own business and being a homesteader. It's almost as if corporate life (and public education, which is designed to make you a corporate drone) is designed to take a ball peen hammer to your mental kneecaps and train out of you all of the skills you would ever need to be independent.

That was one of the things that caused me to lose my job earlier than I had intended ... as I grew more and more into a homesteader, I grew less and less capable of being a good corporate drone. If homesteading had remained a "hobby" for me, I probably could have kept my job for years more. But instead it became my life and took priority and no employer is going to tolerate that.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Yeah,. .Internet is going to be our big problem, and that actually has me worried.. Not for something to do, but because of a resource to get info from, and being able to order things we need... 

Out there we have no cell service, and only Satellite MIGHT be an option. We have issues with line of sight to the sky because of the hills and trees in the holler. I'm afraid a site survey is going to say I need a 150 mast to put a dish on.. 

That's the biggest culture shock I think I'm going to have to learn to deal with.. being somewhat cut off from the WWW... Other wise, I could live on an island with no one around and be pretty happy I believe.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

simi-steading said:


> Yeah,. .Internet is going to be our big problem, and that actually has me worried.. Not for something to do, but because of a resource to get info from, and being able to order things we need...
> 
> Out there we have no cell service, and only Satellite MIGHT be an option. We have issues with line of sight to the sky because of the hills and trees in the holler. I'm afraid a site survey is going to say I need a 150 mast to put a dish on..
> 
> That's the biggest culture shock I think I'm going to have to learn to deal with.. being somewhat cut off from the WWW... Other wise, I could live on an island with no one around and be pretty happy I believe.


There are options.  We have about a 40' mast that our internet dish is on. It's slow and unreliable but it lets me and the wife conduct our business and keeps us entertained on cold days.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

I'm so glad you finally have some goats


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## hurryiml8 (Apr 15, 2009)

Ernie, I'm really interested in how your goats do without bagged feed. I am under the impression that they don't give much milk without it. I think maybe goats bred to give large amounts of milk may not do as well in a less than ideal situation. Mine give a lot of milk so this concerns me. Same thing for growing out meat rabbits. Can you raise animals without bagged feeds and get anything from them?


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

hurryiml8 said:


> Ernie, I'm really interested in how your goats do without bagged feed. I am under the impression that they don't give much milk without it. I think maybe goats bred to give large amounts of milk may not do as well in a less than ideal situation. Mine give a lot of milk so this concerns me. Same thing for growing out meat rabbits. Can you raise animals without bagged feeds and get anything from them?


I use comfrey! and way less bagged food than most folks.

from 
http://www.naturalnews.com/032431_comfrey_healing.html#

_Comfrey contains many vitamins and nutrients such as Vitamin B12, potassium, sulphur, calcium, iron, phosphorus, Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Vitamin B-complex, selenium, iron, germanium and mucilaginous fibre. It is also an excellent source of protein. It contains compounds called Mucilage and Allantoin, which are responsible for its anti-inflammatory properties._


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

hurryiml8 said:


> Ernie, I'm really interested in how your goats do without bagged feed. I am under the impression that they don't give much milk without it. I think maybe goats bred to give large amounts of milk may not do as well in a less than ideal situation. Mine give a lot of milk so this concerns me. Same thing for growing out meat rabbits. Can you raise animals without bagged feeds and get anything from them?


I'm interested too. 

Right now we are giving them alfalfa, but the previous goats we had did not give very much milk on just the alfalfa. Even when I started adding a grain ration to it, the milk production sucked. This lady we have now is supposed to give about 2 gallons per day, which would be OUTSTANDING but we let the baby stay on her through the cold spell and are just now starting to milk her. Was more concerned with keeping the baby alive and healthy so that we had a good start to our new herd.

We've had TERRIBLE luck with meat rabbits so far. At first all our females died, and now we've got 3 more females but they lost their litters. So we're trying again. Rabbits just may not be viable for us.

One of the problems with all animals today is the incredibly BAD BREEDING that has gone on for so long. People have kept them as pets in their yard and then just let them go. We haven't had to rely on them as we did in the days of old and therefore the animal husbandry has suffered.

We're pretty rigid about it here though. A goat who gives a half gallon of milk per day eats as much as one who gives a full gallon, so guess which one goes into the stewpot first?


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I've pretty much been more of a "craftsman" too... Not much I can't build or make or design or what ever.. I've always said, if I would have lived in the wild west days, I probably would have been the town blacksmith.. I love working with metal and fire.... I've got a few ideas for some things along those lines for out there, but there's also a lot of welders and machine shops in the area too because of the oil industry there... I'm just going to have to spend time there getting to know the area and people and find me a niche.. 

A couple people have told me they really need a small engine shop out there, but I don't have the kind of capitol it take to start something like that... Who knows though.. stranger things have happened when money is needed.. 

I've never been a good corporate drone.. I don't like to follow rules. Yeah, I've conformed some, but I still don't take being pushed around.. I've spent a lot of time in HR for calling a super a self serving pompous ass.. and just a couple weeks ago got into it with the COO... Told her it would be a pleasure to get out of her office because I can't help people who won't help theri selves 

I do know I need to do what I can when I can to get ahead of the curve.. Yeah, I love to procrastinate with a lot of things, but I know when it comes to livestock, or things you need to have fixed around the place, the sooner the better. It usually ends up saving you a lot of money in the long run... 

I'd be interested to hear what others who have made a move to the country life from a corporate life have found to be the biggest hurdles and what they've taken on for their homesteads.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I used to be unplugged,in the last half of 70's for 5 years. Had a out house. We built an addition out of logs for a shower, the addition held a gas refer and a hot water tank and a large tank in the celing for gravity fed water. We pumped the water with a engineless generator hooked to the flywheel of my ex's truck. The well was quite deep,so sinse we had to drain it in the winter ,it was a real bear to pull the pipes up out of the well far enough to drain it by getting the point out of the water table. We pumped water once a week. We had batteries,the big ones that would be charged by the truck. Only used that for a radio and sometimes a 12 V. light bulb. We were on 55 acres, so had plenty of wood, for heat and cooking. I had a large garden, raised pigs, which most of their food came from "picking". That is when we go to the back of grocery stores, and get the produce that is set out besides the dumpsters. Ya, you had to talk to someone in the store and they would do this for you then. Had chickens and rabbits. Had some problems with that, no $ for the fencing, Fox and ***** were a problem. Once dogs got under my rabbit cages and killed them right thru the wire. I did a lot of canning and making jerky,some dehydrateing. There wasn't much work, Carter was in office. I did have a horse, and I boarded a couple of others, so had feed, taught my horse to skid logs.

and Now- we have the Luxery of Dh's job. I left my own full time business, when I broke my back. We have cattle, rabbits(Angoras) for my spinning/weaving/knitting. I prefer not to butcher any, tho I can if I had to-I don't. Chickens,too many chickens,especially now in the winter. I feed them moistened dog food that I get for free. I have extensive gardens,growing everything from herbs to dye plants for my wool. Mostly raised beds now, bought the Ash from a neighbor that has a mill. Except what I call the "corn" garden, that is just a flat area. We raise the alfala for our cows on the rest of our 40 acres.So far, I have about 35(different) fruit trees, I say so far because last year I found I need more cherry trees and this year I probably will cut down a plum and peach that don't produce well and will plant something else. 4 kinds of Rasberrys, blackberrys,blueberrys,many perennial foods, putting up around 1000 jars and 2 freezers full each year. No kids here, just my Dogs. Which I do make their dog food, it's far better for them than the stuff I feed the chickens. I could get a couple of pigs again, but dh gets attached, and we can but them just as cheep on the hoof. I do make a few things that I sell. And in the spring,sell starts from the greenhouse and devisions from herbs,rasberrys,flowers.


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

I can speak some for the goats. I do feed alfalfa and wheat at the moment BUT I have had luck with just pasture. The first year we moved here, the girls were out on this native pasture and did AWESOME on it! No grain, no hay. However, they ate all the good stuff and all that is left is grass, which doesn't really cut it when they are milking. So, I'm slowly working on dividing up the pasture so as to do rotational grazing. I will also plant each paddock with a good pasture mix that is tailored to my area and goats. Still working on exactly plants will be in that mix. May even try and get some scrub growing in there, but that will be down the line.

I will have to feed hay in the winter, just the way it is in this climate, but I should be able to cut my feed bill at least in half. I have found that the grain makes no difference in the milk production for my girls. It just gives them something to do on the stand. It does help them to put on condition if needed, but I cull for that.

I have 2 girls that give me 7-8 pounds per milking. They do this on grass pasture and one flake of alfalfa per day. These two are the ones that I am trying to doelings out of since they do that well on my management. One of them will also milk for at least 2 years(so far never less than 4 lbs per milking), probably longer but I keep breeding every other year to try and get doelings. Unfortunately, she likes to produce boys. 

The basics are a protein plant, a calcium plant and some sort of carb. Grain is a good carb and alfalfa provides the protein and calcium, but there are plenty of other plants that can be used. Grass is fairly neutral in my experience. Fine for dry animals and for warmth in the winter, but not quite what is needed at the end of pregnancy and during lactation.

So, you may have a high turnover with goats til you can get some that do well on your individual circumstances, but when you do find those, keep them and breed. And cull HARD. I keep every doeling from these 2 and give each one 2 breedings to show me what they can do. If they don't measure up to my standards, they are gone.

As for rabbits, I did rabbits for 10 years and tried every sort of management I could find. They were never, ever worthwhile. YMMV.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

I like the no till pasture/feed plot seed for deer....it has a mix of quick annual and perennial seed....and brassica family which my goats love. 

Its going to very region to region....I actually dry comfrey for the goats and rabbits and people. I have done mangels also that the goats loved and they hold up well in storage.
Pumpkins are superb feeding for goats IMO.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

The deer is a good point.. I plan to plant an area of corn just for them.. for one, hopefully to maybe help keep them away from my garden, the other to fatten them up before hunting season


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

We got a new buck rabbit once a few years back and had trouble with littersbeing stillborn or dying shortly after. Decided to breed back to father and no problems. I'm not sure if it was an STD in the buck rabbit or bad trait but breeding back to the dad gave healthy litters.
Also....I have a pair of buns on the loose. A little wild, but also know when to show up at the barn when I toss bagels....my cats eat a lot of the young but we often get 2-3 buns, 2-3 times a summer from them. We chicken wire the garden fence atthebottom over field fencing so they cant get into the crops. My caged moms give litters of 6-11 over the summer. 

I'm going big on chickens this spring....easy steady protein. Our pig and calf will be done this spring....

My kids are getting college aged so I'm thinking of cutting things way back. Without help its a lot of work for me and DD12....my husband dislikes the animals until they are on his plate so he does not help. (period)


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## MNBobcat (Feb 4, 2011)

Ernie, I'm curious -- you must have $500-$600 a month in expenses for your medical insurance and another $100 - $500 a month in expenses for property taxes and another couple hundred a month in homeowners insurance and yet more for car insurance. 

How do you get by making a small income selling knives? The way I see it, everyone needs a couple thousand dollars a month in income before factoring in things like food, clothing, gas, etc. I can't see how anyone can get by without at least $4,000 a month in income. 

Shoot...if I didn't have to pay medical insurance, home owners insurance, car insurance and property taxes I'd have quit my job a long time ago.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

MNBobcat said:


> Ernie, I'm curious -- you must have $500-$600 a month in expenses for your medical insurance and another $100 - $500 a month in expenses for property taxes and another couple hundred a month in homeowners insurance and yet more for car insurance.
> 
> How do you get by making a small income selling knives? The way I see it, everyone needs a couple thousand dollars a month in income before factoring in things like food, clothing, gas, etc. I can't see how anyone can get by without at least $4,000 a month in income.
> 
> Shoot...if I didn't have to pay medical insurance, home owners insurance, car insurance and property taxes I'd have quit my job a long time ago.


We don't have medical insurance or homeowner's insurance. 

Vehicle insurance runs us about $1.30 per day and property taxes run us roughly $3 per day.

Those costs are factored into our "$30 per day" budget. 

Basically we need to clear $900 per month in order to "make it", and so far we've managed to do it in various ways. 

We ended up with an extra $2500 in our pockets in December, and now here at the beginning of January the transmission has gone out in our only vehicle ... so the Lord provides.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Sounds just like what we'll be doing Ernie.. 

We bought land, so we don't have to carry homeowners insurance for the mortgage. 

We won't have health insurance either, but for my wife that will be a problem because of her medications.. I've had insurance for years and I've yet to use any unless I stick a stick in my eye or something stupid like that. That is however why my wife wants to try for a state job, so she can get us both insurance through them..

Our property tax is ridiculously cheap, and our mortgage payment is roughly what I pay a month to park here in DC.. Cheap for a house, expensive for a parking spot.. 

We've been stocking up on new clothes from Costco so we'll be set with that for an easy year or two, unless we start putting on weight.. 

I'm guessing vehicles are going to be our biggest expense... insurance and parts and gas since the closest town is 18 miles away...

We aren't off the grid, but our gas is free, the water is ina well, and a septic, so no sewer bill.. .I've been surprised at how little our electric bill there has been too... We don't plan to get internet or satellite TV until we know what we'll be making or what our real bills will be. 

Sadly though, it will take us a good year after moving, getting into gardening and meat birds and rabbits before we'd be looking at any kinds of savings with our own food.. and even then, getting set up for food is going to be a big expense before we see any return on it..


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I know one of your primary goals was to disconnect from .gov in all ways possible. With the (un)Affordable Care Act you will likely qualify for a subsidy to pay premiums or possibly Medicaid for no cost to you. Failure to sign up garners you a fine. How are you dealing with this idiocy?


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

MNBobcat said:


> Ernie, I'm curious -- you must have $500-$600 a month in expenses for your medical insurance and another $100 - $500 a month in expenses for property taxes and another couple hundred a month in homeowners insurance and yet more for car insurance.
> 
> How do you get by making a small income selling knives? The way I see it, everyone needs a couple thousand dollars a month in income before factoring in things like food, clothing, gas, etc. I can't see how anyone can get by without at least $4,000 a month in income.
> 
> Shoot...if I didn't have to pay medical insurance, home owners insurance, car insurance and property taxes I'd have quit my job a long time ago.


Ha HA Ha!!!! I would feel RICH making $4000.00 a month now....
I love my lifestyle though--you have to be able to do without, and disengage from some activities that cost a lot of money. BUT..it can be done if you are willing to compromise on things. It really depends on the type of lifestyle you wish to lead. I could no longer take the stress, hours, and the out right neglect that I felt my children were receiving due to me working outside the home. My children are happy, and I am happier too, but it is not an easy life, and some people think less of you, or think you are "off" since you don't "work". 
Edited to add: Our biggest challenge like many of us on here is to find something to make or do that provides a CASH income, however small that may be. We raise all of our own meat, and can and freeze garden stuff, chickens for eggs, etc...but like you said--there is still property taxes and insurance,and gas, etc...
One thing we have noticed lately in the last few months is the lack of people wanting to purchase meat animals (rabbits, chickens, goats, etc)..I have surmised that it is from the many people on food stamps that use that resource rather than the cash they have to purchase food items, since the meat animals I sell are not much more expensive and often times cheaper than buying them in the store.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

After living in DC for that last 8 years, getting away from government was another part of why we wanted to be back to the country.. 

We specifically looked for a place as far out as possible, and with hopefully as little local government as possible.

We don't have to pull permits to build anything or even put in a hot water heater... We don't even have to report it that I know of.. they'll eventually catch it and assess it in on the next round of taxes from my understanding.

A county line splits our property, and we're pretty much at the furthest place in those counties from the sheriffs offices in each county.. Everyone keeps telling us the Sheriff doesn't like to come out to our neck of the woods, and if they do, they have a "why didn't you take care of this" attitude.. 

I can deal with that..  OH, the plus side is the fire department is just a smidge over a mile away.. so at least we're close to the real kind of help you'd want.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Ann-NWIowa said:


> I know one of your primary goals was to disconnect from .gov in all ways possible. With the (un)Affordable Care Act you will likely qualify for a subsidy to pay premiums or possibly Medicaid for no cost to you. Failure to sign up garners you a fine. How are you dealing with this idiocy?


We will take no subsidies or Medicaid.

Right now, the fine is taken out of your income tax refund, and we have (so far) fallen below the requirement of having to file a return. So basically they won't be able to assess a fine against us.

We'll assess what to do later on as the penalty gets more draconian. Choices will range from writing a new Epistle from inside prison, or starting the long overdue revolution.


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## hurryiml8 (Apr 15, 2009)

I think when it comes down to it, my family will have to become more like vegetarians. Maybe use meat as a seasoning. We can manage chickens without additional feed, but they are just regular chickens, not frankenbirds. I am trying to grow as many nutrient dense greens and other veggies as possible, but nowhere near as much as we need.
As far as the ACA goes, when dh no longer has insurance through work, we will ignore it as long as possible.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

So you don't eat your goats Karen?

I've wondered of all the goat people here, how many actually ate them.. 

I'm thinking they look as tasty as they are cute..


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

Please be aware from what I have read that if you qualify to take the Medicaid and you are over 55?--even with your children, the state can put a lien against your property. Our income automatically shoots is over to Medicaid qualify through the website--I WILL NOT sign up for it. Leave me be and I'll take care of my own healthcare needs as much as I can, rather than sign away me and my children s house. And yes, if I do have a serious hospitalization I have no qualms about paying for my own care--


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Ernie, the loss of the rabbits could have been to the extreme heat. I know folks that freeze water bottles and put them in with the bunnies in the afternoon to help them cool down a bit.
I've been in the Brownwood area a number of times, but can't remember the soil type. Seems to me it is high in sand. My soil is limestone dust up high, then yellow clay and black clay down low. I know the clay is better for growing veggies, but the house is up high and I have no way to irrigate gardens in the "back". We did have gardens down there when I was younger, but when the cultivated land was sold, we just did a small kit garden here at the house, takes a LOT of compost and watering to grow things. I have to water just a bit on a daily basis most days, a deep watering will simply go down a few inches, hit the rock and run downhill under the surface.

Also, to grow any crops now, I would have to go in and try to build some hog proof fences and gates, the feral hogs are doing a job on the pasture the last few months since we started getting a little rain, and you can't grow veggies with a sounder of hogs doing the harvesting.

Semi-steading, Ernie and I have long growing seasons, basically March to MId NOvember for the warm season stuff, if the weather holds right, cool season can go for another 3 months. Our biggest problem is water, and the fact that in warmer areas the organic matter in the soil "cooks out" faster than in cooler climates.
We have had sever grasshopper problems the last few years as well, then there is the hogs tearing things up, and the coyotes stealing the small critters, so things can be harsh.

My pasture has been rented out for over 20 years and the renter, who rented from my Dad originally, has allowed Mesquite to take over. I'm taking it back this year and my son-in-law and I are going to run our own cattle, won't make us wealthy, but will pay a good bit more that the pasture rent has been. We have another young man, in his early 40s with equipment that bales hay and does custom work that wants to join us with a few cattle, and throw in the use of the equipment. NOt a long term arrangement in my mind, but useful to all in starting up. Then we will see how things go. 
Ed


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I have learned to absolutely lean on the Lord to provide all the food and money that I need, and He has!

So it's not difficult for me to believe that He will also provide the health that I need.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

We have homeowners and car ins. and property taxes....about $3700 total yearly. 2 teens driving....they pay their part. My husband insists on homeowners ins. even though we own everything and not required to carry it. Home and cabin, 3 vehicles.

Maine did not expand medicaid so we get nothing. We could get EBT (about $100 a month) but not worth the hassle and really food is the easy part for us.....vehicle repairs have been our biggest issue...and fuel.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I lived in TX for quite a few years, so I know what you deal with for weather there, especially where you're talking about.. My mom is south of Dallas too.. My brother in Dallas.. I couldn't imagine trying to grow a decent sized garden in that area... It is a harsh place for water and insects.. 

Anyway.. .You wanna send me up that Mesquite?  I spend a fortune on chunks of it every year for BBQ's and smoking. I do miss being able to go out and cut my own...


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

simi-steading said:


> So you don't eat your goats Karen?
> 
> I've wondered of all the goat people here, how many actually ate them..
> 
> I'm thinking they look as tasty as they are cute..


We don't eat ours--we do milk them and feed the milk to pigs--makes tasty pork! and cuts the feed costs. We dont utilize them as much as we probably should--we cut the herd down to just a few now. We are liking the sheep much better, they don't destroy as much.

By the way Ernie--I love your knives! One day I'll have one...


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Yeah, Ed, the rabbits keeled over from a combination of transport stress and heat. This new batch is doing better but they lost their kits, probably due to transport stress again.

We'll give them another try but then we may just give up on rabbits.

As for the soil out here, it's pretty awful. Our farm, being in the bottom of a valley, has a little better soil (we've got everyone else's) but it's still awful. 

But soil can be fixed, and we "fix" it every day, all 7 of us. Humanure composting for the win. 

Basically, we only had a limited amount of compost last year that we'd created, and where we used it .. the plants thrived and fed us like you wouldn't believe. Where we weren't able to use it, all the plants died.

I'm sold on composting.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

countrytime said:


> By the way Ernie--I love your knives! One day I'll have one...


Thanks!


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

i grow and gather 80% of my daily goods....helen and scott nearing who many think of as parents to modern homestead grew 80% of theirs....i feel as i have hit a mark in my lifestyle.

i could do better and more and i will as time and circumstances dictate.

theres no way of telling a garden of x size will feed you...because gardens are not created equal..nor gardeners..nor each years weatherplus each area is so different.you have to have a feel and a eye for whats going on around you....if you see the zucs dying off you need to plant more....if it looks like tater harvest is not so good find some sprouting taters somewhere and stick in ground for later in year harvesting.

i can everything i can get my hands on mostly....i had so much canned i had to slow down last year so i could use up older stocks before it became to old.

just one example..one deer i killed recently i put several bags in freezer..ate several meals fresh from it and canned 35 pints too.those 35 pints coupled with rice or pasta or taters i can get 70 meals out of those jars.

i feel like i can do even better though.

go look at the extending unemployment thread i have posted pictures there show things i do...not all but a cross section of it.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I wonder, is milking goats or a cow worth the effort? I can understand a cow, especially if you have pigs to feed the milk to. It's only me and my wife, and she doesn't drink milk. I do daily, so even with a goat, I think it would be too much unless we had pigs, which we do eventually plan on having a couple a year... Let them root up and fertilize some corn growing areas we'd rotate, and for meat... 

I'm just having an issue with the thought of being tied to milking something twice a day...


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

BTW, I agree.. I showed your knives to my wife and told her I was going to break down for one before we move... I don't have a good solid blade hunter or skinner..


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Thanks! A good knife is life-long tool, I says. 

As for the milk, our diet is primarily meat and dairy. Most of the time, I can get meat cheaper than I can get veggies.

I'm already "tied" here, so milking an animal doesn't bother me. Plus I find it very relaxing. I put a song on the radio, lean my head against her side, and go to town! It's very comforting.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

If I knew I could be home every day at milking time, I could see how I could deal with it. I guess right now with too many unknowns since we're not even really to the point of thinking about getting in a garden cleaerd, or getting started on a chicken coop or rabbit hutch, it's hard to imagine milking twice a day.. 

I'm really surprised at how much you've managed to get done and working out in the time you've been doing this.. It sure gives me a lot more encouragement that that it is possible to have a lot of the things we want, and possibly be able to have them sooner than I would have imagined.

I know we're going to have a lot of learning curve with things we already know about, but those things were done in a different environment. Cooler, or warmer, or wetter or dryer.. Also, this is the first place I've lived where sun is going to be an issue to.. We're limited by the hills on either side of the holler.... I know that's going to throw us for a loop when it comes to deciding what to plant, where, and how..


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

My family settled a few miles from my house in 1853. GGGrandpa and wife and kids. Built a cedar log house from trees he cut about 15 miles north, cut oak for firewood about 15 miles to the west. Raised 9 kids.

Whenever I think I've got it rough, I think of them, what they did, try to think how they did it, and what they would think of me. Pretty humbling thoughts IMO.
ED


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Ernie,

Have you thought of other forums to post on for exposure. One Like the Outdoor Trader would be a good one to join. They have a knife section and a chat section that may be helpful in getting some more traffic.

Good Luck


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

simi-steading said:


> I wonder, is milking goats or a cow worth the effort? I can understand a cow, especially if you have pigs to feed the milk to. It's only me and my wife, and she doesn't drink milk. I do daily, so even with a goat, I think it would be too much unless we had pigs, which we do eventually plan on having a couple a year... Let them root up and fertilize some corn growing areas we'd rotate, and for meat...
> 
> I'm just having an issue with the thought of being tied to milking something twice a day...


What you do is take the calf away during the night,milk the cow in the morning and put the calf on the cow for the day. So you only have to milk once a day and calf still gets fed. Extra milk can be fed to chickens along with the pigs,dogs,ect. Always skim the milk for butter and freeze that, then make cheese from the skim milk. One can cann milk, clarified butter.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2014)

I saw a mention of food stamps in one of the posts. I understand that you can buy fruit trees with food stamps. So, if you were to get a hundred dollars a month of food stamps, save up and in March, when stores start selling fruit trees, go to Walmart, or any other store that accepts food stamps, and max out your food stamp card on fruit trees and whatever seeds you want. That way, you can start a small orchard that will give you fruit for years to come.


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

Ernie said:


> We've had TERRIBLE luck with meat rabbits so far. At first all our females died, and now we've got 3 more females but they lost their litters. So we're trying again. Rabbits just may not be viable for us.


What type of rabbits do you have? We started with Californians and NZ's and had horrible horrible luck. Lost a couple of bucks due to heat (I am not very far from you). Then the females just would not breed but I suspect they may have been overweight or possibly just the bucks were heat sterile. Then inherited some mutt rabbits that had all been pets and have been rolling in meat ever since. They dress out smaller but they are far easier to deal with.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

po boy said:


> Ernie,
> 
> Have you thought of other forums to post on for exposure. One Like the Outdoor Trader would be a good one to join. They have a knife section and a chat section that may be helpful in getting some more traffic.
> 
> Good Luck


There's another forum I post on as well about topics that interest me, but mostly I rely on word of mouth.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

elkhound said:


> i grow and gather 80% of my daily goods....helen and scott nearing who many think of as parents to modern homestead grew 80% of theirs....i feel as i have hit a mark in my lifestyle.
> 
> i could do better and more and i will as time and circumstances dictate.
> 
> ...


I saw that thread, your gardens are gorgeous!


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Ernie, have you planted any fruit or nut trees?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

paradox said:


> What type of rabbits do you have? We started with Californians and NZ's and had horrible horrible luck. Lost a couple of bucks due to heat (I am not very far from you). Then the females just would not breed but I suspect they may have been overweight or possibly just the bucks were heat sterile. Then inherited some mutt rabbits that had all been pets and have been rolling in meat ever since. They dress out smaller but they are far easier to deal with.


They are NZ. Smaller rabbits might be an easier solution. Less heating issues.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Tiempo said:


> Ernie, have you planted any fruit or nut trees?


Yes, about 9 of them. Would love to plant more too. Basically we've planted them around the house and garden in anticipation of fruit and shade, plus two full size apple trees that we hope will someday be where the permanent pig pen will go.


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

simi-steading said:


> Anyway.. .You wanna send me up that Mesquite?  I spend a fortune on chunks of it every year for BBQ's and smoking. I do miss being able to go out and cut my own...


How about some alder for smoking? I consider it my worst enemy in terms of property mgmt. They grow like weeds. But good for smoking.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

None of that around me.. .Thanks to Unkle making the old closed up strip mines plant Autumn Olive, I've got WAY more than that than any person should have.. I doubt it would be good smoking wood though.. 

I just can't imagine some good pig or beef smoked with anything other than Mesquite. Guess Texas spoiled me


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## hurryiml8 (Apr 15, 2009)

simi-steading said:


> So you don't eat your goats Karen?
> 
> I've wondered of all the goat people here, how many actually ate them..
> 
> I'm thinking they look as tasty as they are cute..


Yes, we do eat the extra males. They are tasty. I would have a tough time eating the does. I'm quite attached to them and their milk is wonderful.


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

Ernie said:


> They are NZ. Smaller rabbits might be an easier solution. Less heating issues.


Well the smaller ones are still not heat tolerant, it was just easier to work the smaller ones into our hybrid underground set up idea which helps keep them cool in the summer. But I also think the mutts just seem more, I don't know, "hardy" I guess is the word I am looking for.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Goats is on our list, but for us, more for keeping the weeds and such down in my mind.. I do want to use them more as meat than milk though... I told my wife though, I don't have a problem with dispatching and butchering any animals at all, however, I've never done goats, and I think that would be the one animal I'd have a hard time with because they just have so much personality..


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

simi-steading said:


> None of that around me.. .Thanks to Unkle making the old closed up strip mines plant Autumn Olive, I've got WAY more than that than any person should have.. I doubt it would be good smoking wood though..
> 
> I just can't imagine some good pig or beef smoked with anything other than Mesquite. Guess Texas spoiled me


I like mesquite and hickory for hunks of meat, alder is best for fish IMO, especially salmon.

Autumn olive is a pain in the backside.


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

Tiempo said:


> I like mesquite and hickory for hunks of meat, alder is best for fish IMO, especially salmon.
> 
> Autumn olive is a pain in the backside.


I tend to agree with you. I smoke mostly with hickory and apple. Nice combo. Best use for alder I've tasted is a cold smoke for fish.


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## Homesteader (Jul 13, 2002)

Well, back from the city, such great responses here. Ernie, I did not venture much into the survival/prep side of HT in the early years. Then, got so busy actually doing homesteading I got away from coming on, plus we had dial up back then. I thought you were in TX, but since I am a "senior" now, I get to blame my forgetfulness!

Following that were several years of difficult health issues for me. Treating those issues has got me getting more and more back into it. We have always had gardens, poultry. I more recently have become much more interested in the prepping and also, the political side of it. I see our country has lost its way. 

We have DH's full time income, we would be hard pressed to make it without income. I suppose we could do it on a little money but I'd want more preps in first, and a few more "systems" as I call them set up. He is 58 I am 55.

We got our place here in the desert in 1999. I was determined to be out of the city by the first of 2000. We made it. Rented our house in the city to family, and did a for sale by owner type financing for our place. Small place, very small 2.5 acres only but we do a lot on it! We have a well, septic, a 1965 double wide mobile home that is not attached to the ground, so our property taxes are very low, although we do have to pay for a "trailer" certificate every year.

The place was pretty much bare, save for one fence edge (300 feet) was already planted to tamarisks. Unfortunately, they were on the wrong edge as to be a windbreak. After the first few years we realized that wind was going to be a huge factor, it's devastating to plants and our place is pure tan sand. Once we started disturbing the surface, it started drifting. In desperation, we placed rainbirds on posts all over the place, on timers, and they came on 2x per day. This finally created a bit of a "crust" as we call it and stopped the sand movement.

We went straight into trees and bushes as windbreaks, plus tried fruit trees. Most of the fruit trees died. Wouldn't have mattered, after 12 years, we have only had fruit once (last year) due to the late freezes and/or winds we get. The windbreak has helped a LOT.

We fenced the whole shebang. Used poles that were left here - someone had obviously had a horse here at one time. This kept the coyotes and stray dogs out.

DH built a "desert barn", so wonderful, with a swamp cooler attached. It too was built using those poles as the corners and the floor perimeters, and the walls are chicken wire. There are lights and running cold water. Fiberglass "wavy" panels are put up on the outside to help with keeping the sun out in the warm season and cold winds out. It's got a metal roof. Can't recall how tall it is, but it's a building, you know, you can walk around in it with plenty of headroom. There is a hallway, and then four separate "apartments" as I call them. The apts. are about 8x8 feet each I think, plus the hallway part is 4 or 5 ft. by 16.

So we did chickens, both layers and cornish rock cross for meat. Our layers, after a year or two, we let them free roam, but they became bobcat magnets. So this year, we are keeping them in the barn.

Quail too but I admit I got attached and was having a hard time killing them. We will be getting day olds this spring though, I need to get over that.

We did the goats, Nubians, DH built the most fab "system" for them, a milkhouse with lights and water, their area has a 20x40 foot open area plus on either end, additional space. One end is a three sided wood slat with metal roof, the other end is just chicken wire and metal roof. Electric fencing. Oh the milk was wonderful, and I made cheese in a press DH made for me, and we did ice cream and yogurt. 

Eventually I had to give up all dairy and he doesn't do much dairy at all, it simply wasn't worth it so the two gals are now fat happy pets. The last batch of kids (6 total), I could barely give them away. We don't live in an agricultural area as you can imagine, it's so very different here than in so many of the places I read about here on HT. 

Huge garden areas. 90% of the watering ( we have to water daily during most of the year) is done via automatic timers. It would literally take me 5 hours a day to water everything without them.

We could do rabbits. We had a couple pet ones in the early years, and we built their section of the barn specifically for rabbits. DH dug out a square hole about 8' deep. Into that we inserted a wire section, just as deep and wide, imagine a square wire box but no roof on it. Filled it back in. So, the rabbits could burrow down til they were comfortable, but could never dig their way out. In summer I would run some water thru a hose across the floor of the pen (pure sand), and it would help to keep the top cool. They did quite well, but were just pets and never had babes.

I can, freeze, dehydrate. We eat a lot fresh too of course. Cooking is mostly from scratch, I buy in bulk and on sale.

We are fortunate that DH can build or fix just about anything. I am not a big gal, very petite and can't do a lot of heavy stuff at all. Those big goats about did me in matter of fact, trying to get them to get up on the stanchion, we had quite a time with them sometimes. We do have a john deere, it's one of the big yellow ones with a bucket loader in front. DH built (he welds too) a disc setup for the back of it for tilling.

We invested a lot of money. DH's income was higher before the 2008 mess hit. We are both so glad we did. During our first few years, we received a living inheritance from his dad, and made the joint decision to just pay the place off. Best decision we ever made. It took all that money, but oh my we own it. (well, as far as you can "own" your land nowadays).

Trees, bushes, rototiller, a gazillion of those irrigation set ups (solenoid thingies) and pvc pipe. Had to put our own phone lines in. Built two porches and an A-frame roof structure over the trailer when we realized the roof leaked. Took DH and his dad 2 weeks, all day every day but by gosh it's beautiful - white metal roof.

Chicken wire, fencing wire, posts, screws, nails, hoses. Faucet stand thingies, with faucets, I believe we have about 15 or so of those (and those are not what waters our plants). 

Swamp cooler for barn, barn materials, milkhouse materials, chickens, goats, bins, tubs, freezers, incubators, brooder, chicken waterers, medicines on hand in case for goats, it never ended it seemed. 

Roses, raised beds, wind proofing panels, the outside trellis nursery, asparagus beds, pomegranates, fruit trees. 

I am home all the time and do the animal care and a lot of the weeding/care of the gardens, of course run the home, shopping, laundry, canning. Starting the seeds inside, keeping them watered. All the trays and trays of seedlings, a LOT of them, go in and out every day from the house to outside during the half-way point in the season (too cold to stay outside all night). DH does everything else, the building, the heavy stuff. The electrical, any repairs any building.

I look forward to him retiring if he ever does. We could get a lot done. We work very good together, except I am not much on the strength. He adjusted to that, uses all sorts of tricks to prop things up and seems fine without my help! We did run the irrigation and the electrical in conduit for the underground stuff together. Oh so funny, he would pull the elec wire and I would try to hold on with all my might to the spool, I really don't know how we did it! He pulled too hard a couple times and I went flying - oh such memories (I'm 5'3" and about 110 lbs.).

I would love to unplug - especially in the way of power, we sure have sun but the systems to set up to run the "electric life" we live now would be out of the question, too expensive. 

Well, that's my ramble! I look forward to reading more of everyone's posts!


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

paradox said:


> What type of rabbits do you have? We started with Californians and NZ's and had horrible horrible luck. Lost a couple of bucks due to heat (I am not very far from you). Then the females just would not breed but I suspect they may have been overweight or possibly just the bucks were heat sterile. Then inherited some mutt rabbits that had all been pets and have been rolling in meat ever since. They dress out smaller but they are far easier to deal with.


Same here. We bought from a local woman and she had Chinchillas and Cinnamons. We put ours on pasture in range shelters and have had tons of litters with no problems at all.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

simi-steading said:


> None of that around me.. .Thanks to Unkle making the old closed up strip mines plant Autumn Olive, I've got WAY more than that than any person should have.. I doubt it would be good smoking wood though..
> 
> I just can't imagine some good pig or beef smoked with anything other than Mesquite. Guess Texas spoiled me


Do you eat the berries? They are supposed to be good and good for you.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Not all of our bushes or trees or what ever they are have them. It seems like we have two different types.. 

On the ones that do have them, I've eaten a few off them.. a little sour or bitter or what ever, but they do have a real nice flavor.

We were hoping that we might be able to get enough berries we could can some chutney or jelly or something similar made from them. at least until we can get the majority of them cut out... I've read some good recipes for cooking with them too.. 

If I took all of them we have all over the property and put them in one area, I'd bet we have an easy 5 acres worth..


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## jamala (May 4, 2007)

Ernie said:


> There's another forum I post on as well about topics that interest me, but mostly I rely on word of mouth.


We have several of Ernie's knives and love them! My son said they are his best knives and he collects knives so that says a lot about the quality of Ernie's.


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

I had never heard of these so I just did a bit of research. The following article gives some history about them, the health benefits and some uses. 

http://www.annarbor.com/entertainme...rries-are-rich-in-nutrients-color-and-flavor/


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

jamala said:


> We have several of Ernie's knives and love them! My son said they are his best knives and he collects knives so that says a lot about the quality of Ernie's.


Awesome! Thanks! I'm glad he likes them. 

We're rolling out some new products here in the new year. I've been waiting to get some new sheaths made for them. Also kitchen knives are going to be more prevalent in the shop.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

logbuilder said:


> I had never heard of these so I just did a bit of research. The following article gives some history about them, the health benefits and some uses.
> 
> http://www.annarbor.com/entertainme...rries-are-rich-in-nutrients-color-and-flavor/



The really dirty secret about them, not only do they spread as bad as dandelions and about impossible to kill off even if cutting to the ground, but they have these little bitty thorns on them that like to break off in your skin as soon as they poke you.. then they turn into a a small blister in a couple hours later and hurt really bad like an infection, and they are a real pain to dig out... 

I'd rather not have them than have the berries from them.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

simi-steading said:


> The really dirty secret about them, not only do they spread as bad as dandelions and about impossible to kill off even if cutting to the ground, but they have these little bitty thorns on them that like to break off in your skin as soon as they poke you.. then they turn into a a small blister in a couple hours later and hurt really bad like an infection, and they are a real pain to dig out...
> 
> I'd rather not have them than have the berries from them.


http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5412.htm
Sounds like you have a nice sustainable, nitrogen-fixing feed for goats, sheep, deer, rabbits, etc...

I have five cultivated (from breeding programs) varieties of autumn olives going into their 3rd year. They have all produced good quality fruit so far, some is excellent. "Amber" is the family favorite.

Most "weeds" are just unrecognized resources.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

fyi... the autumn olives pair well with autumn raspberries.

The ones below were picked on Nov 1st last year:


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I know they can be a resource, but the problem I have is everything is overgrown with them... I've got a lot of areas you can't walk through.. LARGE areas... I've been cutting it out of the creek beds because it hangs up everything and blocks the creek... 

I kid you not, in 57 acres, I easily have 5 acres of it, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to 10... I didn't know goats would eat it.. wonder if a few hundred could get it cleared out.. LOL..

I keep telling my wife we need to get a Panda or two too.. We've got a huge patch of fast spreading bamboo too... It's a heck of a chore keeping it cut back and trying to keep it from spreading more... Seems we bought a pretty well invaded piece of property.


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

From your description they sound like scrubby bushes. If so, I have had success with a chain and my tractor. I wrap the chain around the base a couple of times and just pull it out. With two people, it can go pretty fast.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2014)

Semi,,here near Charleston, WV we have the government sponsored fencing called Rosa multiflora. We also have the Autumn Olive. I Find it extremely difficult to extract myself from the multiflora unscathed. Amazing how the good intentions of the powers to be usally end up being invasive.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

simi-steading said:


> wonder if a *few hundred* could get it cleared out.. LOL..


here you go...
http://www.autumnolivefarms.com/about-us/


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

K.B. said:


> here you go...
> http://www.autumnolivefarms.com/about-us/


Now that's a great story! Around here there are similar operations that specialize in blackberry removal. I hadn't heard about the meat potential.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

K.B. said:


> http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/pubnwsltr/TRIM/5412.htm
> Sounds like you have a nice sustainable, nitrogen-fixing feed for goats, sheep, deer, rabbits, etc...
> 
> I have five cultivated (from breeding programs) varieties of autumn olives going into their 3rd year. They have all produced good quality fruit so far, some is excellent. "Amber" is the family favorite.
> ...


Now I am tempted to try some if they make good goat browse....


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

simi-steading said:


> I know they can be a resource, but the problem I have is everything is overgrown with them... I've got a lot of areas you can't walk through.. LARGE areas... I've been cutting it out of the creek beds because it hangs up everything and blocks the creek...
> 
> I kid you not, in 57 acres, I easily have 5 acres of it, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to 10... I didn't know goats would eat it.. wonder if a few hundred could get it cleared out.. LOL..
> 
> I keep telling my wife we need to get a Panda or two too.. We've got a huge patch of fast spreading bamboo too... It's a heck of a chore keeping it cut back and trying to keep it from spreading more... Seems we bought a pretty well invaded piece of property.


You need a bunch of goats. Our place was infested with some of the toughest stuff out there wild roses, blackberries, scrub cedar, wild hedge and they mow it all down. I am always looking for new and hardier stuff to plant.


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## Westexas (Apr 10, 2013)

Hello, Ernie, from Roby, TX (1 hr NW of Abilene). Glad to have a HT member so close, and have enjoyed what you have shared about your lifestyle and goals. We have had great difficulty in finding help out here (we are pushing 60 and I work a very busy schedule at our little hospital and clinic) so if you find yourself in need of some work or assistance, for that matter, feel free to contact me. DH is at home, but I think struggles to accomplish as much as he would like if he is working alone. It feels like you are a neighbor, given how far-flung this community is (mpillow!).


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

I was raised on a working homestead. Lived in town a few years, but at the first opportunity I bought a homestead of my own. 

The one I bought was established. The house is around 100 years old and still has a few pull chain lights hanging in some rooms. I've been slowly modernizing it over the past 20 years.

I'm not off grid, but I'm moving that direction. I have a few solar panels, windmills won't work in my area, so I adapt things as I learn of them.

The homestead provides most of my food. It had established fruit trees. They were old and over the years I've planted new ones to replace the old. 

A large garden was established. The previous owners had 7 kids. I have none home now so I only have to support myself. I store for all my kids and their families for when hard times comes our way.

Goats supply milk, cheese, butter, and meat. 
Chickens supply eggs and meat.
Guineas supply meat and keep the bug population under control.
Guard dogs keep the animals safe from predators.

My favorite method of preserving fruits and veggies is to dehydrate them. I use a large electric one now, but have the screen wire and wood frame to use the air for it if power is not available. 

Speaking of power... it's very unreliable out here. I've learned to live without it when I have to. Not easy nor fun, but very doable. Lots of oil lamps, candles, battery powered lights w/ solar chargers. Wood stoves to heat and cook on. Hand pump for water when the electric one is not working. 

For years I've been saving to build a powerless air conditioning system, but it seems the money is always needed elsewhere so that hasn't happened yet. 

Everything was easier when I had a husband and kids here to help. Now I'm getting up in age and some things are hard to do. I still take care of the animals, milk goats, butcher animals, do all I can do. The place is falling into disrepair in some areas, but I manage to keep it liveable.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

K.B. said:


> here you go...
> http://www.autumnolivefarms.com/about-us/



Heeeeeyyy... You wouldn't happen to be the people that rented the goats to the cemetery in this area that was all over the news were you?

What a great idea... I didn't know if they would eat Autumn Olive... Maybe out in my area there'd be a lot of people that would want to rent some.. 


Really cool story, and even cooler you got a grant for it..


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Westexas said:


> Hello, Ernie, from Roby, TX (1 hr NW of Abilene). Glad to have a HT member so close, and have enjoyed what you have shared about your lifestyle and goals. We have had great difficulty in finding help out here (we are pushing 60 and I work a very busy schedule at our little hospital and clinic) so if you find yourself in need of some work or assistance, for that matter, feel free to contact me. DH is at home, but I think struggles to accomplish as much as he would like if he is working alone. It feels like you are a neighbor, given how far-flung this community is (mpillow!).


Thanks! I know the territory you're out in. That's a rugged place. 

And I know the feeling about working alone. I've got my sons to put towards our bigger projects and push through, but it has always galled me that we don't have a community of men to draw upon in times of heavy labor.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

simi-steading said:


> Heeeeeyyy... You wouldn't happen to be the people that rented the goats to the cemetery in this area that was all over the news were you?
> 
> What a great idea... I didn't know if they would eat Autumn Olive... Maybe out in my area there'd be a lot of people that would want to rent some..
> 
> ...


Not my story at the link - just did a quick search in your area for autumn olive and goats. hope it is a workable solution for your situation.

I'm still working on getting the initial infrastructure at our place. The orchard (food forest) went in a couple years ago, right after we bought the property. The house should be ready for us to move in later this year, if all goes well. Designed the house to be able to function on it's own, as much as possible, and provide a place that will give us shelter while being low maintenance. High mass, passive solar, natural cooling, good location for PV and solar hot water heating, etc... Wish we had gone with a smaller structure to start, but at least it will be done (finally).

Low maintenance and getting rid of utility bills was a big priority for me based on places that we have lived previously. It is easy to fall into a "trap" that ends up needing all your time just to maintain a home, outbuildings and yard.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Once we finish getting things fixed up, it should all be fairly low maint, but the property itself is going to be a huge amount of work to keep up if I don't have something to help me... I've been thinking goats since we got the place.. 

Only utility bill we have now is electric and probably eventually internet of some sort.

I was telling my wife your story this morning, and she asked something I didn't think of.. What happens if you send your goats out to someone, and something happens to one of them while there? Also, how would you even find insurance to cover a business model like you have?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

simi-steading said:


> Once we finish getting things fixed up, it should all be fairly low maint, but the property itself is going to be a huge amount of work to keep up if I don't have something to help me... I've been thinking goats since we got the place..


What does "keep up" mean?

It's not a lawn ... it's a farm. If you "keep it up" then you can clear land for food production. If you don't keep it up then nature will fill those spaces with browse for goats, cover for rabbits and birds, and wild plants which are also "food production".

Reevaluate how much of that labor you're doing and view it with a more tribal eye. How much of it really needs to be "kept up"?


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

By keep up, I mean keep the bamboo cut back.. keep what little pasture area I have at a decent height until I get some goats or pigs or what ever so it doesn't turn to weeds... ... Keeping the creek beds cleared out, Keeping the fallen trees out of the washes and creek beds and road... Keeping my paths through the property cut back so we can walk through or drive a tractor or such through.. .


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

simi-steading said:


> By keep up, I mean keep the bamboo cut back.. keep what little pasture area I have at a decent height until I get some goats or pigs or what ever so it doesn't turn to weeds... ... Keeping the creek beds cleared out, Keeping the fallen trees out of the washes and creek beds and road... Keeping my paths through the property cut back so we can walk through or drive a tractor or such through.. .


I don't know about bamboo. We don't have it here.

But as to pastures turning to weeds, good pastures with healthy soil DON'T turn to weeds. The weeds are God's way of bringing fertility back to depleted soils. Remember .. nothing can out-compete grass. If the grass can't handle the weeds, it's because the soil composition has shifted in favor of weeds over grass. I let the weeds grow. Goats will eat them and crap out more soil nutrients than you can buy. When the soil composition returns to be in favor of grass then the grass will return and all of those weed seeds will return to dormancy to wait for the next cycle.

Fallen trees in the washes would be just free firewood for me. If you've got more wood than you can already use, make some relationships with other folks who will come pull it out, cut it up and haul it away. Let them do the labor for you. 

As for walking or driving a tractor, I prefer to walk and I've yet to see the terrain I couldn't get through in one way or another. Dense cover is good for deer and rabbits, both of which I love to hunt. 

It sounds like your land is trying to heal itself! Don't be too hasty in getting in the way of that. Particularly if you want to use the methods of the same industrial society which caused it to be so harmed. 

If the county extension agent shows up to offer advice, pick up the heaviest, thorniest stick you can find and beat him soundly about the head and shoulders with it.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Oh yeah.. all the trees that fall are firewood for me.. No one else will want it because everyone out there has trees all over the place too. There might be one or two in town, but I really don't want people on my land.. Iif I can't use the wood for the fireplace or wood stove I keep it to use for bon fires.. 

I need the paths open so I can get the tractor through to skid out fallen trees for firewood.. and because I gotta have some way to get places fun to ride with the dirt bike. 

As far as the pastures, they are all grass, but I figured it I didn't keep the cut to a decent length eventually the weeds would take over.. 

The land is really fertile.. It was clear cut years and years ago.. I'd imagine some time in the 30's going by fallen trees I counted the rings in and by the size of what's there.

I'd just like to get a lot of the autumn olive gone because it's choking out a lot of the more natural ground cover.. Autumn olive is really nasty stuff if you get a large area of it growing. You can't get through it without a chain saw to hack a path.. even trying to climb through it is pretty much impossible even if you didn't have the thorns to worry about.

the bamboo is a whole 'nother game.. all you can do is keep cutting it.. Kid you not, I cut it back in one area, and 10 days later I had stalks that were 10 feet tall.. I took the box scraper and put the teeth down and dug out a whole lot of the runners and it helped some, but I hear this year may be worse because where I broke off the runners, it will spread out even further and two directions from each broke end..


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I started at 12, on my own. Chicken coop and well with 3 little calf veal barns. I lived in the coop. Did all that got married at 17 and farmed for 25 years. Then health took a dump. I worked at a town job for 16 years. Took early retirement at 55. I have been back to living minimally since the mid '90s. The off grid place is 1 acre, old road bed and a little creek with a small meadow. Built the off grid cabin as a summer place to get away. It has a masonry wall at the little wood trash burner/cookstove. We had a very small 2 battery 12 volt solar power system. We have no TV and very minimal 12 volt appliances. A very small shed for 3 pygora goats for my goats milk. A leanto for 2 rabbit does, another leanto for the chickens and another for the pigeons. I have a small pen for a pig or 2 at times, it has a 8'wide x 6' leanto shed for sun and rain protection. The property backs up to 1000s of acres of timber company property for gleaning. 

Right now we are living at our beach cabin. this year I caught a lot of salmon and some perch. We have power here but don't use a lot. We do have elect heat and city water.

We keep everything very simple and plain. Food, necessities and life. Last month, with Christmas and all, our bills were less than $300.00. This cell costs us $19.99 with unlimited internet. Power was $27.48 and our water is $12.50. We bought some baking goods, yarn, material and thread, some small stocking stuffers and a gallon of honey from my nephew. 2 fill ups of gas, $47.65 to see MIL. We can walk to everything here and/or I ride my bike to fish at the lake.1 meal at our favorite place $16.00 with tip. We want for nothing and have a lot in storage for the future. DS is taking care of the off grid place and taking care of the animals and the milking. We use about 2 gallons of goat milk a week and 2 dozen eggs a month. We don't eat a lot of red meat, some poultry and a lot of fish. We have a greenhouse for fresh vegetables and hoops on raised beds for the kitchen garden. I pick up enough cans and bottles to buy what we need in the way of spices, salt, pepper, etc. We can, dehydrate smoke and now freeze since we got a small one this fall. If it will grow here and we eat it we raise or glean it....James


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

simi-steading said:


> I was telling my wife your story this morning, and she asked something I didn't think of.. What happens if you send your goats out to someone, and something happens to one of them while there? Also, how would you even find insurance to cover a business model like you have?


give them a call if they are somewhat close to you. I would bet they can answer all the insurance questions. 

Here is another operation that is on our side of the country:
http://www.rentaruminant.com/how-to-get-started.html

Some friends of our have used them and had it work well for clearing wild blackberry canes.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Oh.. I'm sorry.. I thought that was your farm... DOH.. I'm a little slow at times.. LOL..


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## Vosey (Dec 8, 2012)

Ernie - glad you're going to make more kitchen knives, I loved the set with the cleaver you had on Etsy this fall. Would make a wonderful birthday present to myself! 

Simisteading - we're in a long range transition to being as self-sufficient as we can be, and I can't even say how long it will be. I work a great job at a non-profit, but I don't want to work until I'm 70 (or even 60!). But the idea of not working is also terrifying. My 5 year plan is to go part time, I work in a great field for part time work. But I would probably have to commute 50 miles for that part time work. I do have a best case scenario but it relies on political climates and grants so who knows! 

DH is home doing everything except food preservation. We managed to grow 50% of our veggies this year, which I think was great with just 2 years here and I had to be gone twice during peak harvest time so gave a lot away. Lots of canning and dehydrating. We raise chickens for eggs and one of my coworkers is building a meat bird operation/CSA this year so I'm excited to have her raise and butcher them for us. And I have a patient that raises rabbits and buy from her. That's the kind of thing we can afford to do since I work and I really am thankful for that ability. 

I hope your wife finds work, sounds like that'll be the best scenario for you to start.


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## Brighton (Apr 14, 2013)

My question would be how to not just "survive" but to thrive, it seems some have picked places where thriving is not an option, like Ernie??

I don't want to eat Grasshoppers and Okra every day, and I also want to be able to be 24/7 on my farm, so I can continue to improve it, but you need $$ for taxes, fencing, seeds, plants, trees, vehicle maintenance, etc., so how do you Thrive and not just Survive?


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## Vosey (Dec 8, 2012)

Brighton said:


> My question would be how to not just "survive" but to thrive, it seems some have picked places where thriving is not an option, like Ernie??
> 
> I don't want to eat Grasshoppers and Okra every day, and I also want to be able to be 24/7 on my farm, so I can continue to improve it, but you need $$ for taxes, fencing, seeds, plants, trees, vehicle maintenance, etc., so how do you Thrive and not just Survive?


Some at home business or part time work, ideally on your own schedule. My brother and his now passed away wife were trying to do this. It took years to get to where they made money from raising sheep, they just broke even a few years ago with grass fed beef. My brother is a ferrier, his ferrier work is what always paid the bills on their farm. There usually has to be some kind of income in this day and age.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Brighton said:


> My question would be how to not just "survive" but to thrive, it seems some have picked places where thriving is not an option, like Ernie??
> 
> I don't want to eat Grasshoppers and Okra every day, and I also want to be able to be 24/7 on my farm, so I can continue to improve it, but you need $$ for taxes, fencing, seeds, plants, trees, vehicle maintenance, etc., so how do you Thrive and not just Survive?


I don't think it's IMPOSSIBLE to thrive in my area, but it may take more time than just the first two years.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I guess I'd also need some input from you as to what you define "thriving" as?

For me, a couple of pounds per day of okra from the garden and some fresh fish in the stove IS thriving.


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

Ernie said:


> For me, a couple of pounds per day of okra from the garden and some fresh fish in the stove IS thriving.


Ernie,

How to you like to cook the okra? My mom used to stew it and I never acquired the taste. I love breaded and fried though. Seems like there must be something in between.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

logbuilder said:


> Ernie,
> 
> How to you like to cook the okra? My mom used to stew it and I never acquired the taste. I love breaded and fried though. Seems like there must be something in between.


Stir fried with some sort of meat is the most common around here. On our big wok.


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## plowhand (Aug 14, 2005)

Pickled Okra is good, ain't slimey either. While they are rather bland, you can "shell" the seed out of tough pods and cook them like cowpeas.
Oh, yea...cowpeas make good goat feed, green, and dried for hay.....test about 19% protein.....besides being mighty fine cooked down with a hamhock and served over rice!


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

My dh receives Ss, that is our only income and he has Medicare. We walked away from everything 14 years ago to live in the woods. Nearest neighbors are 6 mikes away. We have a 3 mile dirt road that is private and not city maintained. We have apple and peach trees, raspberry and blackberry bushes. We grow a large garden. We have raised chickens, pigs and goats. This spring we will be getting chickens again along with another milk cow. Our water is spring gravity fed. Power is solar, not a big system, 2/55 watt panels. All utility lines stop 3 miles away. I have a root cellar, dh recently built me an old fashioned icebox, a spring house and I can everything. No refrigerator for 14 years. We heat with wood, hot water is solar in summer and runs thru wood stove in winter. I have a small propane antique stove and a larger wood cookstove. Laundry is done by hand. Hangs outside in good weather and by woodstove in winter. We pay property taxes and vehicle insurance, cell phone our only way to have phone and internet. We use no food stamps, I do not have health insurance at this time, but did apply for my veterans health benefits.

I feel that living like we do now us better than any life we had back in the city, working for the man. My life is sort little house in the big woods. We have 78 acres and couldn't imagine being anywhere else. We are doing this with 3 dgds (1, 3,& 5).

Ok, done rambling.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Brighton said:


> My question would be how to not just "survive" but to thrive, it seems some have picked places where thriving is not an option, like Ernie??
> 
> I don't want to eat Grasshoppers and Okra every day, and I also want to be able to be 24/7 on my farm, so I can continue to improve it, but you need $$ for taxes, fencing, seeds, plants, trees, vehicle maintenance, etc., so how do you Thrive and not just Survive?


The only obstacle in the way of that potential, today, is political climate and the fact that civil government has other ideas.

The fulfillment of the real potential of a man, unbridled to follow his passions and build what provision he will for his family&#8230;..would be a sight to once again behold.

ETA&#8230;&#8230;.. there is a reason the Apache fled to and thrived in (by their standards) and why the Eskimo settled and thrived in (by their standards) regions of the earth wholly inhospitable to the like that accepts employment as a clipboard-bearing and bespectacled government hack.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Quality of life/thriving is different for every person. 

I don't really expect to have laws (local or federal) passed that support my viewpoint, as I am interested in a lifestyle that is very different from what is currently considered "normal" in the US. Best i can hope and advocate for are laws/codes that don't restrict my options to choose that lifestyle.

In terms of thriving in a specific location, my suggestion would be to evaluate each location in terms of the ability to meet your needs for clean water, shelter and food (in that order).

The money side of the equation is different for everyone, too. My suggestion is to try and figure out a way to bring a job with you to the homestead. Off-site jobs tend to pay the best, in my experience. One way to bring that off-site job home, so to speak, is to work at it from a contractor or consulting approach. Obviously not all jobs/careers will work this way, but if you have the patience and long-term vision to see this option, you may find an opportunity to get into a position to make it work for you.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

There is *no sustainability* to be had, real or imagined, in a nation where hidden hands control the economy, and ever-increasing taxes are laid upon the privilege of land use.

If they can tax you into the corral&#8230;.. --and they can-- &#8230;&#8230;.they will.


Going along to get along under such a crippling burden is no provision for our progeny.


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## Brighton (Apr 14, 2013)

Ernie said:


> I guess I'd also need some input from you as to what you define "thriving" as?
> 
> For me, a couple of pounds per day of okra from the garden and some fresh fish in the stove IS thriving.


Sorry, I would have replied earlier but I spent a good part of my day fixing our sump pump as the big thaw starts. Our neighbor's Hired man came and looked at it, said "buy a new one", my thoughts were not in that direction as the pump is only a year and a half old and a new one is $150, so some PB Blaster and a bit of emory cloth and I fixed it all on my own.

My idea of thriving, have some money put back, if my truck breaks down or the furnace goes out, or I get sick or break a hip, I won't have to scramble around to figure out where than money is going to come from. I also don't want to eat the same darn thing every day, I have a stocked pantry from the gardens, but a pork chop now and then would be nice, nicer if I had raised it myself, but the fencing issue is HUGE and will cost many thousand to set right so I can get back into cattle and hogs like my family had in the early days. Our well is another issue, old, 1938 or so, every line, other than to the house has had to be cut and capped due to deterioration, so I have no way to water any livestock, nothing anymore to the barn, the outside tanks. A new well is out of my reach right now, as it a new roof, which the house needs. 

So, I can work full-time off the farm and the farm continues to deteriorate for several more years while I save money for a new well, fencing, a new roof, or I can just say the heck with it, and let the pastures and out buildings fall down/grow up and realize that I can only do so much and resign myself to driving 40 miles one way to a decent job, or I can go in debt to fix everything, I don't like the idea of debt. 

My gardens are tremendous as are my fruit trees, but the Farmer's Market doesn't pay enough to stay home, and it only runs from June through the end of September.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Historically, the "common man's", even the landed and secure "common man's" definition of _thrive_, was far more grounded than what has come to be the distorted version we vainly long for, today.

_Thriving_ has got to be something along the lines of learning to live comfortably on what you can gather, assemble and maintain from your immediate surroundings.

Society today has been carefully crafted to all but eliminate even the possibility of such an arrangement.


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## Brighton (Apr 14, 2013)

Forerunner said:


> Historically, the "common man's", even the landed and secure "common man's" definition of _thrive_, was far more grounded than what has come to be the distorted version we vainly long for, today.
> 
> _Thriving_ has got to be something along the lines of learning to live comfortably on what you can gather, assemble and maintain from your immediate surroundings.
> 
> Society today has been carefully crafted to all but eliminate even the possibility of such an arrangement.


So in your opinion Thriving is living with a roof that leaks, or a well that barely makes it to water the garden in the summer?

I do live fairly comfortably (while I listen to the drip going into the bucket from the roof), but there is a lot of work to be done here for this farm to thrive and be as productive as it used to be, and for me not to have to work full-time off the farm and one single person can't do it all, EVER! 

You have a wife, older children to help, I don't have that here, I have to hire help if I need it.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Forerunner said:


> Historically, the "common man's", even the landed and secure "common man's" definition of _thrive_, was far more grounded than what has come to be the distorted version we vainly long for, today.
> 
> _Thriving_ has got to be something along the lines of learning to live comfortably on what you can gather, assemble and maintain from your immediate surroundings.
> 
> Society today has been carefully crafted to all but eliminate even the possibility of such an arrangement.


That is subsisting. Thriving is a step up from just surviving on what is at hand. Being content with what you have is a virtue to some degree but it is also considered irresponsible to not properly provide for your family and have something set aside to prepare for the hard times. 

We can provide 100% of the food we need to live on our homestead. We can also create enough income from it to pay the taxes every year. We can subsist here fairly comfortably if it ever comes down to that. But in order to thrive and make our farm thrive we first had to pick a fertile and well placed spot and then put a whole lot of back breaking work into it. We are still working even after a decade and a half. It also required work off the farm to pay for the infrastructure we needed. 

Society has never held us back from doing most of what we wanted to do and the only real problem we ever hit (selling food and milk from an uncertified kitchen) has been remedied by getting the law changed. I guess I have a different perspective on my responsibility to others around me and future generations in that I see it as more important to stay in the system and create freedoms for others rather than opt out of it and not benefit anyone. 

I admire Ernie's gumption and his willingness to stand his ground even when it hurts him. I always admire people who stick to their principles even if I don't necessarily agree with them.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

A man of energy and ingenuity can _thrive_ under the circumstances that I lead out above.

A man alone, having spent his energies in his youth, will either have planned ahead, or he will perish alone...... or both.....which, in my estimation, is not an eventuality to dread, but merely a portion of the natural evolution of our lives that we cannot avoid.

I will submit that _thrive_ might can mean different things to different people, and, incidentally.... nothing in THIS thread, that I have posted, is intended to come across as an offense.

I do maintain that if you depend on circumstances beyond your natural reach, you are "thriving" unsustainably.

To me, that's not _thriving_.... :shrug:


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Brighton said:


> You have a wife, older children to help, I don't have that here, I have to hire help if I need it.


This is a critical piece to factor in. Focus on managing the acre or two around the house as well as you can. Trying to take on too much is an easy way to fail.

Fix the leaky roof and redirect the water off the roof to a catchment to use for your garden and/or animals.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

To me, thriving means your not struggling... you might be working hard, but if you're thriving, you're not sweating things, such as where is the next meal coming from.. If you are thriving, it means you know it's coming from the garden because you worked hard for it and it's doing well.. 

Thriving doesn't mean you are able to fill your grocery basket with anything you want without a thought as to what it's going to cost... That's living large..


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

Since "There is no sustainability to be had, real or imagined, in a nation where hidden hands control the economy, and ever-increasing taxes are laid upon the privilege of land use." it seems silly to quibble about who is closer or further from that sustainability. We are all in the same boat even if you think you are in first class and we are in steerage.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I never intended to convey otherwise.......


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

I thought not, but your comment "I do maintain that if you depend on circumstances beyond your natural reach, you are "thriving" unsustainably." seemed a little exclusionary.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Forerunner said:


> A man of energy and ingenuity can _thrive_ under the circumstances that I lead out above.
> 
> A man alone, having spent his energies in his youth, will either have planned ahead, or he will perish alone...... or both.....which, in my estimation, is not an eventuality to dread, but merely a portion of the natural evolution of our lives that we cannot avoid.
> 
> ...


I can see your point here. For some people dependence on anything outside of themselves and their place can be more stressful than it is worth. And basing your lifestyle on your outside income can be painful if you ever lose it. I guess I have never looked at the off farm job as a necessity, just a means to an end. Every paycheck means one more thing done and the work is there mainly to get us set up. We do still use some to enjoy ourselves of course but ultimately it makes reaching our goal of as much freedom and self sufficiency quicker and easier.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Not at all, Mistletoad......

I am set up, at the moment, to benefit greatly from resources well beyond my natural reach.

......and, I am feeling the pinch, as well as anyone, for the restrictions placed upon me by tyrannical, oppressive and punitive government.

BUT...... I don't mind at all using what may appear as extremes to make a very valid point, if not several at a time......


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Patchouli said:


> I can see your point here. For some people dependence on anything outside of themselves and their place can be more stressful than it is worth. And basing your lifestyle on your outside income can be painful if you ever lose it. I guess I have never looked at the off farm job as a necessity, just a means to an end. Every paycheck means one more thing done and the work is there mainly to get us set up. We do still use some to enjoy ourselves of course but ultimately it makes reaching our goal of as much freedom and self sufficiency quicker and easier.


I have no issue making full use of what may be available today to set up for sustainability in the absence of what _will not_ be available tomorrow......


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I like to toss the okra in flour with a touch of salt and fry it. The coating is thin but crunchy.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Location makes a huge difference, as does time, either your own or a previous owner. Some find places set up with much, some,like Ernie, start from scratch. Personally, when we moved to this place, thought it was great for where I was on the journey of self sustaining. Now, not so much and that is after much labor and money invested. Another huge help is getting dh on board, that took years. 
Thriving, having a luscious meal that is, for the first time, 100% homegrown (well except for the salt and pepper) is very liberating. The canner is still out and it is january. Learning to dehydrate comes after learning more about making cheeses. A leisurely day is usually not to had here, even when outside work does not interfere. Doing better at time management, even on my own which is most of the time. 
There is ALWAYS something to be learned, often a more efficient way to feed, maintain, and accomplish the upkeep and husbandry needed. The synergy between land, animal and person is fluid and one of the most rewarding life (ongoing) lessons that I have found. The complexities and simplicities can make one feel a sense of satisfaction that leads to one thriving.
Work, steady and thoughtful, is as best as I can explain what makes a homestead.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

At one point in history, a job was something you took to earn money for your own endeavors. A young man took a job to learn some craft or trade and to put aside capital to set himself up later. Or you took on a job for a period of time to earn capital for some individual project that needed more income than you could normally deliver on your own.

I see no issue at all with a job in that traditional sense.

Where we went wrong was when we let them convince us that a job was needful from age 16 to age 65 (when we can grab that "brass ring" and live a life of luxury) and that we were to live from paycheck to paycheck.

That's where so many people went wrong, and that's why so many people are terrified that there is no job now. They never saw it as a temporary measure. They saw it as a lifestyle.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

To many people thriving means having it all. The big house, 3 vehicles, TV's in every room, computers, smart phones, notebooks, Kindles, etc. The same applies to what they eat -- they want it all in any season from the store.

We don't have to look back very many years to see a more sustainable lifestyle. Everyone had a garden and canned. If possible each household kept chickens and had a cow. Nuts were gathered each fall from the timber. Grocery stores were for flour, sugar, yeast, coffee, rice and luxury items like canned peaches. Frozen foods did not exist until the 1950's nor did TV. Computers 1970's. Smart phones, tablets etc. the last few years. Boxed foods pretty much didn't exist beyond crackers and a few cereals. Cheerios, Rice Krispies, Corn Flakes and Wheaties were about it. Folgers and Maxwell House and maybe a couple more completed the coffee shelf. Cake mixes came in the 1950's. And the ridicuous number of cleaning products today hadn't been thought of until the 1960's and later and I can guarantee that my grandmother or my mother's houses were clean. Clothing was sewn at home on treadle sewing machines. Then it was mended, patched, handed down and generally kept going for ages. Closets were small because people only owned 3 or 4 changes. Sunday clothes, work/school clothes and chore clothes. Sunday shoes and everyday shoes and maybe work boots. Shoes were polished and went to the cobbler for repairs. Mostly kids went barefoot in warm weather. Most modern "improvements" came post-WWII so the knowledge on how to live/thrive without them is still available from grandparents or maybe great-grandparents.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Ann, one of the unfortunate things is....I am a grandparent...... and all of my older folk are gone. Most of the older folk I know can't give me much in the way of information now, as most have lost most of what they knew.

I have some memories of when I was a child, but not enough to flesh out some of the things I would like to know for sure. I am far ahead of most of my contemporaires too. One of the things I love to do is go to farm museums and historic homes, many times I have told the workers there what something was, what it was used for and how it was used. I would still love to learn more.
Ed


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

There are a lot of good books available on the Great Depression. Also, old farming books, household management type books. Then there are the newer books like Carla Emory's Encyclopedia of Country Living and other homesteading books by various authors. Countryside Magazine, Backwoods Home Magazine and early years of Mother Earth News all have tons of useful information.

I'm 70 so I remember the late 1940's in Southern Iowa which wasn't so very different than the 1930's. When we moved to town we didn't have a car so we walked everywhere. Mom used our red wagon to haul groceries home or our sled in the winter. Even after we had a car we still walked everywhere -- we never ever considered asking for a ride to school, church or to a friends. It wasn't until we moved to Des Moines in the late 1950's that I discovered we were total hicks from the sticks.

My dad could never stay settled for long so we moved a lot. Sometimes we had inside plumbing and sometimes not. As far as I recall we always had electricity. 

When I started preparing for retirement, I gave a lot of thought on how to reduce our expenses. I started thinking about all the stuff that either didn't exist or I couldn't afford in 1960 when we married. I realized that I could save a great deal of money by eliminating all those things. So I stopped buying paper products. I use cloth napkins instead of paper and rags instead of paper towels. BTW most of my napkins are high quality linen purchased for very little at thrift stores, garage sales and auctions. I make my laundry soap from Fels Napha, borax and washing soda and stopped buying Tide. I use white vinegar for most cleaning. 

We still put in a big garden each year and can/dehydrate/freeze/store the harvest. Even with drought the last 2Â½ years we managed to have quite a bit to harvest.

I keep our meals simple which suits dh as he only likes meat, potatoes and two veggies. Of course, I stretch meat with casseroles which he doesn't like so much, but unless he learns to cook he'll just have to get over it.


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

Ann-NWIowa said:


> There are a lot of good books available on the Great Depression. Also, old farming books, household management type books. Then there are the newer books like Carla Emory's Encyclopedia of Country Living and other homesteading books by various authors. Countryside Magazine, Backwoods Home Magazine and early years of Mother Earth News all have tons of useful information.
> 
> I'm 70 so I remember the late 1940's in Southern Iowa which wasn't so very different than the 1930's. When we moved to town we didn't have a car so we walked everywhere. Mom used our red wagon to haul groceries home or our sled in the winter. Even after we had a car we still walked everywhere -- we never ever considered asking for a ride to school, church or to a friends. It wasn't until we moved to Des Moines in the late 1950's that I discovered we were total hicks from the sticks.
> 
> ...


Between those lines is a bunch of wisdom. Thanks.

IMHO.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Hey Ernie one fast question. Why did you pick texas?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

myheaven said:


> Hey Ernie one fast question. Why did you pick texas?


It's home. I grew up here.

And I strongly felt that God was calling me to this very specific place.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Awesome ok. We're making a move to Texas. Just have to find the "spot" to call home.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

myheaven said:


> Awesome ok. We're making a move to Texas. Just have to find the "spot" to call home.


One of the best ways I have found of knowing if you're following God's will is when all of the obstacles in front of you get knocked down with no effort on your part.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Ernie said:


> One of the best ways I have found of knowing if you're following God's will is when all of the obstacles in front of you get knocked down with no effort on your part.


I agree with you 100%. My dh has several job offers every week. There is no good jobs here. We just have to choose where we will live.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Oh, so like, what's Illinois....chopped liver ? :indif:


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I lived in Illinois for too long.. I found it to be more like ground liver 

Maybe if I lived further south, like around Garden of the Gods area, then I might have liked it a little better..


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

You just weren't hangin' with the right crowd, Dude. :thumb:


I have it on good authority that there is seldom a dull moment, around _these_ parts.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Well even though we have very wonderful family in ill noise and of course you guys. The prices there are just outlandish. Not to mention taxes and laws and garbage.
Tim we love you and Cindy and the rest of the crew but no way could we deal with the politics of Illinois.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I guess I'm just a sucker for a challenge, that way. :shrug:


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

I've posted this before. I grew up on a cotton farm, born in 50. We had an old couple working here at the time. He was old, like in his late 70s early 80s at the time. They kept a milk cow, chickens, had hogs, a smoke house, did the hog killing thing, and I was right in the middle of it all. They moved when I was 7. I did learn and retain a good bit from them.

The neighbor across the road was a truck farmer, I would go hang out over there. Big gardens, bees, orchards, and some beef cattle. Mostly he used hand tools and horses, but when I was small he started using a tractor that looked like a small road grader type thing. Learned and retained a good bit from him and his wife also. He took Organic Farming mag. and would give me the back issues. I called him Uncle _ _ _ _.

We always planted fairly large gardens in the fields, and on two or three different farms we worked. If one failed another would probably produce, just ran the equipment right on through when working the fields. Momma would put up corn and blackeyed peas either canned or frozen and freeze peaches, other things were eaten fresh. By the time I got married in mid 70s she pretty much shut down doing that, and in mid 80s Dad retired from farming and sold the cultivated land, so the little thin soiled garden space behind the house was it, will make some squash, tomatoes and hot peppers, but not deep enough for lots of other crops.

I taught Ag, HIstory, and English. Have collected old textbooks, lots the first year I taught and the school was dumping old texts from the 30s and 40s that had been held in storage. Some used bookstores have furnished others, and my Uncle gave me some old texts and Yearbooks of Agriculture he had collected as well.

I have listened to the old folks. I used to watch an old neighbor with about a 2 acre garden as the bus came by her place. MOst of her food came from there or from selling it through the truck farming neighbor at the Dallas Farmers Market. She had very little formal education, dressed in old style, bonnets and all, long sleeves, full lenght skirts and apron,but man... could she grow a garden. I used to go over with my grandpa and visit with her husband who had fought in WW I.

Another set of neighbors had a garden just a might smaller, and the amount of things I have seen in jars was IMPRESSIVE. These last two spots were on a creek and lots of soil had washed down to the garden areas, rows were planted across the slope, and the soil there was pretty deep. I paid attention when we went by and I saw them working in the garden.

Another thing that alwasys impressed me was how clean the gardens were, picture perfect, no weeds or grass ever showing. The old woman's place is grown up with weeds and junk now as the "new" owners don't use it properly, hurts me when I see it. Last place, the woman just died last year and she was in her 90s. Don't see the garden being used like before, but still in use by her daughter and I would guess the grandkids and their kids.

Ed


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

I love a challenge. That's why I married my dh. I love farm and soil challenge. I can't deal with liberal ignorant jack wads!!!!!!


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

myheaven said:


> I love a challenge. That's why I married my dh. I love farm and soil challenge. I can't deal with liberal ignorant jack wads!!!!!!


Some of us liberal, ignorant jackwads like the same things, fancy that..we're not so different as some think


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Forerunner said:


> You just weren't hangin' with the right crowd, Dude. :thumb:
> 
> 
> I have it on good authority that there is seldom a dull moment, around _these_ parts.


Too lively! 

You know we had tried to buy that property next to you but couldn't ever make it happen. Didn't have enough money at first and everything was sold later on. Just wasn't meant to be, I suppose.


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

Tiempo said:


> Some of us liberal, ignorant jackwads like the same things, fancy that..we're not so different as some think


The biggest problem with liberalism is that they usually want everybody to conform to their agenda and use legislation to push it.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Win07_351 said:


> The biggest problem with liberalism is that they usually want everybody to conform to their agenda and use legislation to push it.


As do conservatives.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Hey, you children be nice now, ya hear! Tempers this time of year can get a thread shut down.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Tiempo said:


> Some of us liberal, ignorant jackwads like the same things, fancy that..we're not so different as some think


We may like some of the same things but I have to respectfull disagree with you about not being so different.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Back to the matter at hand. They just started passing laws about what a person can do around here with their land. There is now rules of what type of house that can be placed on a land. If I want to live in a mobile home that should be my choice. Not my neighbors. If I want to change the color of my house, I have to be approved. 
I feel a person as long as it will not hurt or kill the neighbor, should be allowed to do what ever with their land. Wether it be a land fill or mc mansion. You bought it its yours!


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

Tiempo said:


> As do conservatives.


Agreed.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Never ever buy a property that has an HOA. EVER. NEVER. Its bad enough that .gov at all levels wants to control our lives/property without having neighbors doing it. Even a good HOA is BAD. A rogue HOA will make your life a living he!!.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Ann-NWIowa said:


> Never ever buy a property that has an HOA. EVER. NEVER. Its bad enough that .gov at all levels wants to control our lives/property without having neighbors doing it. Even a good HOA is BAD. A rogue HOA will make your life a living he!!.


I agree Ann 100%. We do not have hoa's just some new city person who purchased 40 acre in the middle of farm ville causing a ruckus. They went a far as to get a street light put in. Looks way out of place! Said person is attempting to limit the amount of outside animals like cows, horses, goat, donkey. This is cattle country.! But I'm sure this city dweller in the end is going to get all theses rules passed. Kinda what happens when you have more money then the farmers and have big city lawyers that raise a stink and city offices who see dollar signs instead of long time residents who were born and raised on the land. It's sad to see the old timers being pushed out by the new city people. 
I need more land for my kids to roam. I'm ready to start over. I'm Ready for a new way of life.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

simi-steading said:


> We've got a huge patch of fast spreading bamboo too... It's a heck of a chore keeping it cut back and trying to keep it from spreading more... Seems we bought a pretty well invaded piece of property.


My farm has bamboo - not sure what kind as there are a huge variety but I think it's the native kind to South Carolina. Anyway my cattle eat it - not the hard stalks but the leaves and tender shoots - they have cleared my bamboo stands - I still have bamboo but it's not an impenetrable thicket now.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Harvest the bamboo and sell it as bean poles or for craft projects.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

myheaven said:


> I agree Ann 100%. We do not have hoa's just some new city person who purchased 40 acre in the middle of farm ville causing a ruckus. They went a far as to get a street light put in. Looks way out of place! Said person is attempting to limit the amount of outside animals like cows, horses, goat, donkey. This is cattle country.! But I'm sure this city dweller in the end is going to get all theses rules passed. Kinda what happens when you have more money then the farmers and have big city lawyers that raise a stink and city offices who see dollar signs instead of long time residents who were born and raised on the land. It's sad to see the old timers being pushed out by the new city people.
> I need more land for my kids to roam. I'm ready to start over. I'm Ready for a new way of life.


]

I had that happen to me in Illinois. Was somewhat crazy.

Where I am now, it's sort of the opposite. You have a bunch of retired city people with 200 acre tracks of land and then me living a farm life out on their fringes. I'm the newcomer and the oddball.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

heh.. kinda funny now that you mention city people and the locals. 

I'm the new city guy.. (what they don't realize is I've lived in the country a LOT more than in the city) the local neighbors already think I'm crazy and must be rich because of how much shooting I do, and one of them isn't real fond of it... I bought all my ammo when it was cheap... I just bought a whole lot... Afraid I might shoot them, but I am shooting no where near their place.. I'm also the only one within a couple miles with any plans for any farm animals.. 

I'm also one of the few that carries a gun everywhere I go... I've only met one local that does off his property.

I can't what to see what they think of us once the chickens and goats are running around, and then start smelling a pig or two..


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

I don't homestead (yet) I bought a farm in 2005 with plans to build a house on it but it had a prescriptive easement that when I tried to get power run across it for the house the road ended up getting blocked and I had to file a case against the owners (almost 100 of them). The access has been used since 1947 so it's pretty much a slam dunk but court cases take FOREVER!!!. I raise cattle on the land and walk across my blocked access road daily. My wife is fed up with that land so I bought a farm with a house, barn, workshop last year and have been remodeling it prior to moving in. We are within 2-3 weeks away (finally) and then we will be able to really start working on self-sufficiency.

My thing is just prior to getting married I quit my Corporate job and started my own niche market software company. I had 2 partners whom I have subsequently bought out. Since quitting my corporate job I have worked out of our home - 20 years this April. I choose this life so I could spend time with my kids and wife - I don't have a "Normal" city life but I still live in the city and have been trying to escape it since 2005.

My company is still doing well and I am the only employee and have been for more than 8 years now.

Ernie described early in this thread his typical work day garden a few hours, work in the shop 5-6 hours, piddle, etc..

This is the same type of lifestyle I have and have had for again almost 8 years.

I read news, this forum, for a couple of hours, then work for a few hours, then go out to my farm to move my cows, check the chickens, then back home, check the kids homework, eat dinner, and relax with the family.

I want it to change a bit once we move to the new place to include the work of running the homestead: gardening, livestock, etc.

My plans are to keep working for myself out of the house in the city - not a long drive 20 minutes each way but build up the knowledge, resources, and ability to be able to not rely on much that does not come off the farm should the need arise either through a personal SHTF or a larger SHTF. Till then I will continue to live the double life although I'm not working for "the man" and my paying job is actually very easy and pays well.

So again work toward self-sufficency while working off the farm but working still for myself.

So how does my story relate to the OP? Detached, unplugged - well I have and I have not. I have in the sense that I work for myself and have done so successfully for 20 years - I have not because my work is entirely plugged in (Internet based Software), I live in the city, and if a major SHFT scenario comes I would be hard pressed to survive the first year. 

If I did survive right now it would be on a strict meat diet as I have enough cattle to see me through if I could protect them.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

myheaven said:


> I agree Ann 100%. We do not have hoa's just some new city person who purchased 40 acre in the middle of farm ville causing a ruckus. They went a far as to get a street light put in. Looks way out of place! Said person is attempting to limit the amount of outside animals like cows, horses, goat, donkey. This is cattle country.! But I'm sure this city dweller in the end is going to get all theses rules passed. Kinda what happens when you have more money then the farmers and have big city lawyers that raise a stink and city offices who see dollar signs instead of long time residents who were born and raised on the land. It's sad to see the old timers being pushed out by the new city people.
> I need more land for my kids to roam. I'm ready to start over. I'm Ready for a new way of life.


I'm pretty sure under the law anyone who is farming and has animals will be grandfathered in to continue doing so. So if someone is trying to do this maybe you should be sure to get a couple pigs, cow, chickens, etc. before the new law passes. I detest people who move to the country and immediately set about trying to turn it into the city. The more the newcomers require .gov to do the more taxes rise and that's what forces out the older residents.


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## Homesteader (Jul 13, 2002)

Ernie said:

"I'm the newcomer and the oddball." 

 you do realize the oddball part will continue no matter how long you live there.............


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

.......or no matter where else he may decide to go...... :whistlin:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

But of course.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Ann-NWIowa said:


> I'm pretty sure under the law anyone who is farming and has animals will be grandfathered in to continue doing so. So if someone is trying to do this maybe you should be sure to get a couple pigs, cow, chickens, etc. before the new law passes. I detest people who move to the country and immediately set about trying to turn it into the city. The more the newcomers require .gov to do the more taxes rise and that's what forces out the older residents.


Already have the animals.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

I will be the odd ball at some time. I will be leaving this homestead sooner rather then later.


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

SCRancher said:


> I don't homestead (yet) I bought a farm in 2005 with plans to build a house on it but it had a prescriptive easement that when I tried to get power run across it for the house the road ended up getting blocked and I had to file a case against the owners (almost 100 of them). The access has been used since 1947 so it's pretty much a slam dunk but court cases take FOREVER!!!.


Here is a pretty good article about prescriptive easements. It discusses the legal ins and outs. From what I interpret it to say, the prescriptive easement is only good for the uses that allowed it to be granted. If there has never been power on the easement, you adding it might not be allowed. Don't trust me though, read the article and let me know what you think.

http://www.eskridgelaw.net/what-is-a-prescriptive-easement/

and one more that might be even better.

http://www.dirtlawyer.com/pe-summary.html


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## plowhand (Aug 14, 2005)

Unless it was a county law, Horry county, I was understanding that all land in SC sold after 1984 got an automatic 60' right of way. We sold 2 farms and had to include right of ways. My cousin sold a farm, because a gentleman stopped their right of way up...wanted to buy it himself. They sold it to another fella, and the hardzzzzgf54 had to allow the new owner a 60' right of way. The farm had been purchased in the 40's originally and the law wasn't applicable to my cousin, but was to the new owner.

I moved across the line to NC. Over here they have to allow you access/easment of 30' to your land. If you have to have 60' right of way you have to buy it. The other party doesn't have to sell, but can be sued at refusal and the court then will set a price....so I've been told.

I tell anyone buying land that they need a clear access to a road, a good surveyed plat, and title insurance, and all rights and appertances for them,their heirs and assigns. If you can't get those 4 things, then buy some other piece of property! Saves a lot of headaches.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

Trust me I have studied the easement laws in minute detail for South Carolina. In South Carolina there is NO land that does not have access however getting said access may require a court battle with multiple neighbors if necessary.

The two adverse easement routs I am most familiar with are:
Prescriptive Easements which are simply easements created by a minimum of 20 years contentious open use. My lawyers are claiming this: I have Arial photos showing the road as far back as I have been able to obtain which is 1970. Road clearly visible every 10 years - so visual proof of existence for 40 years and witness for 60+ years.

Easement by Necessity - basically the court will grant this if it is the only reasonable way into the property. My lawyers are also claiming this: The property I have to cross borders mine on 2 sides, the other 2 sides cross creeks - 1 major and 1 minor but I could build an access across it however I would still have to cross another land owner's property.

I do have title insurance and it does specifically cover this prescriptive easement so the majority of the litigation is being handled and paid for by them - I have my own lawyer who monitors so this is costing me a little but it is worth it for my piece of mind.

Regarding the power - in the 1940's the sole owner at the time on the piece of property I cross signed a "Blanket" easement to the power company so basically the power company can run power over that property where ever and however they choose. They (land owners) tried to get the power to my well removed, I showed the blanket easement I had found to the power company and my lawyers sent a polite but firm note to the power company and I have not heard a peep out of them since so I think I am good unless I lose my case.


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## connie in nm (May 11, 2002)

Totally off topic, but question for Ernie: My folks lived on Brownwood Lake for 15 years before moving closer to drs. etc.. Beautiful place, but hear it really suffered in the drought. Has the water level come back at all? Some neighbors that lived on creek said they had no water . Have enjoyed reading this thread.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

connie in nm said:


> Totally off topic, but question for Ernie: My folks lived on Brownwood Lake for 15 years before moving closer to drs. etc.. Beautiful place, but hear it really suffered in the drought. Has the water level come back at all? Some neighbors that lived on creek said they had no water . Have enjoyed reading this thread.


Not really. On one side it's still mostly barren scrub and weeds. You can see people's docks and such sitting high and dry 200 yards from water now. 

I think the lake is about 50% capacity or so, based on when I last heard about it on the radio. Supposedly it will take at least ten years of average rainfall to recharge.


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## plowhand (Aug 14, 2005)

TEN YEARS! It can be so dry here that grass is growing in the river beds....in a week it can be above flood stage....course it's a lot different country than Texas.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Wow Ernie! That's hard to grasp!


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

myheaven said:


> Wow Ernie! That's hard to grasp!


 
NOt if you been here in Texas the last few years. First time I saw a thunderstorm, I hid under a table.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

plowhand said:


> TEN YEARS! It can be so dry here that grass is growing in the river beds....in a week it can be above flood stage....course it's a lot different country than Texas.


The problem is that the ground is so dry that it takes a pretty good rain just to saturate the soil to the point where water will run in the creeks and streams. And then it has to KEEP raining so that the water continues to run and make it all the way to the big lake. 

And then it has to be enough water to keep up with the ridiculous demand. They feed multiple counties out of that lake and water rationing is a joke. 

For our own pond, it takes 2 inches in an hour to make the creek run which will flow into the pond. That's happened 3 times since we got here, which is a blessing, but that's the situation. 

Last year was a good year, but that sort of cements the fact that we're in the middle of a 7 year drought.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Drought is frightening. Most of Iowa is now considered to be out of drought although levels of ground moisture are low. Our particular area is still in drought. All summer, if there was rain, the radar would show a "C" shape of rain and we would be in the dry center. Same with snow. We've had very little snow this winter and did not have much last year either. Now wind we have plenty of which quickly dries up any moisture we get.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

SCRancher said:


> My farm has bamboo - not sure what kind as there are a huge variety but I think it's the native kind to South Carolina. Anyway my cattle eat it - not the hard stalks but the leaves and tender shoots - they have cleared my bamboo stands - I still have bamboo but it's not an impenetrable thicket now.


is it Japanese knotweed? https://www.google.com/search?hl=en....0....0...1ac.1.32.img..2.10.1107.uVaZMeNIMoE
we used to think it was bamboo until I found out the truth (as an adult). its awful stuff


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

beaglebiz said:


> is it Japanese knotweed? https://www.google.com/search?hl=en....0....0...1ac.1.32.img..2.10.1107.uVaZMeNIMoE
> we used to think it was bamboo until I found out the truth (as an adult). its awful stuff


I've got it here too. It is evil. Comes down pretty good with a machete.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I wouldn't think true bamboo would be a problem on any homestead.

Free construction material growing on your land! I guess you might get tired of everything looking Gilligan's Island but still ...


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

Ernie said:


> I wouldn't think true bamboo would be a problem on any homestead.
> 
> Free construction material growing on your land! I guess you might get tired of everything looking Gilligan's Island but still ...


Around here, there is bamboo but I've not seen it anything bigger than 1" diameter. When I was in college in MS, there was some real nice bamboo that we used to build things with. Much bigger. Grew around ponds. You had to be careful about the moccasins though. They liked it too.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Ernie said:


> I wouldn't think true bamboo would be a problem on any homestead.
> 
> Free construction material growing on your land! I guess you might get tired of everything looking Gilligan's Island but still ...


It can be a terrible pest. It can choke out your creek and pond before ever getting thick enough in the stem to be of much practical use.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

beaglebiz said:


> is it Japanese knotweed? https://www.google.com/search?hl=en....0....0...1ac.1.32.img..2.10.1107.uVaZMeNIMoE
> we used to think it was bamboo until I found out the truth (as an adult). its awful stuff


Nope not that stuff


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

I am pretty sure mine is native bamboo or "river cane". It does not get HUGE diameter and the cattle love it.

The article below even states that cane stands used to be used to fatten cattle prior to conversion to row crops.

http://showmeoz.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/americas-native-bamboo-identification-culture/


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

SCRancher said:


> I am pretty sure mine is native bamboo or "river cane". It does not get HUGE diameter and the cattle love it.
> 
> The article below even states that cane stands used to be used to fatten cattle prior to conversion to row crops.
> 
> http://showmeoz.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/americas-native-bamboo-identification-culture/


I think lots of people confuse bamboo with river cane.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

SCRancher said:


> I am pretty sure mine is native bamboo or "river cane". It does not get HUGE diameter and the cattle love it.
> 
> The article below even states that cane stands used to be used to fatten cattle prior to conversion to row crops.
> 
> http://showmeoz.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/americas-native-bamboo-identification-culture/


Uh huh.. makes me remember Memaw saying somebody was gonna get a "cane switchin'"


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

We have river cane down here and some non-native bamboo. The goats annihilate it.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

Possum Belly said:


> I think lots of people confuse bamboo with river cane.


Possum Belly - River cane IS bamboo 



> River Cane (_Arundinaria gigantea_), Switch Cane (_Arundinaria tecta_) and Hill Cane (_Arundinaria appalachiana_) all belong to the Poaceae, or Grass family of plants. Although they are referred to as âcaneâ, they are true bamboos closely related to those found in Asia and parts of South America.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

SCRancher said:


> Possum Belly - River cane IS bamboo


I figured it was a relative of some sorts. Thanks


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Ernie... have you considered doing a "new" blog that focuses just on the homesteading/knife/podcast/youtube stuff? That way any issues/hard feelings/"drop off" associated with the old one is left behind and you can "brand" the new blog/website with your business name and get some link traffic with other blogs and more word of mouth? I enjoyed the picture posts about your homestead on your "old" one and there are so few good blog/websites on families/homesteaders doing it in the desert/hot climate/southwest!!! You .were right that people want to buy Ernie knives and not faceless mass produced ones. A branded blog/website will boost etsy sales too when people "live along" with you.


Something to think about. I for one would love to see it! :goodjob:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Freya said:


> Ernie... have you considered doing a "new" blog that focuses just on the homesteading/knife/podcast/youtube stuff? That way any issues/hard feelings/"drop off" associated with the old one is left behind and you can "brand" the new blog/website with your business name and get some link traffic with other blogs and more word of mouth? I enjoyed the picture posts about your homestead on your "old" one and there are so few good blog/websites on families/homesteaders doing it in the desert/hot climate/southwest!!! You .were right that people want to buy Ernie knives and not faceless mass produced ones. A branded blog/website will boost etsy sales too when people "live along" with you.
> 
> 
> Something to think about. I for one would love to see it! :goodjob:


Thanks. Blogging is something I haven't really done much of in quite awhile.

As for the hard feelings of it, well, the same haters who followed my first blog followed me to my second one, and my third one, and my fourth one (which is the old one you are saying). If I created yet ANOTHER one, they'd follow me to that one too. Right now there's a substantial number of them following me on Facebook. You might have noticed how a lot of them disappeared from this subforum while I was away but they showed right back up as soon as they heard there was a target to attack.

I have considered creating a Possum Creek-specific blog, but it wouldn't remain pristine. I am incapable of discussing how to run a pipe to water your okra plants without going into the religious and ideological beliefs that have me growing okra in the first place. 

There's also the very real fact that I am not exactly an expert at this stuff. I am doing many things by trial and error. Some stuff works, some stuff doesn't. The necessity to do it puts me slightly ahead of the people whose only knowledge of these things comes from the magazine articles they read on "survivalism", but there are people who do it better.

I don't know. It's something to think about, and boosting sales is never a bad idea, but I am not yet sure how to pull it off successfully. The radio show was an attempt to do the same, but it ended up consuming a lot of time and didn't really boost sales all that much, so I dropped it.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Hmm maybe moderating the comments section would help? Set comments to "moderator approval" and only publish non bashing ones. Then start linking up with other blogs/websites you admire and share traffic... it will bring in new blood not from here that wont be carrying the same baggage as some of the people following you around.

I have seen many homesteader blogs with religion mixed in, some were pushy and tried to cram it down your throat and some just gave simple nods to their beliefs that flowed well with the posts. Both types have their fans. You seem to be in a different place now, as you have said, and giving those nods along with comment moderation might be the ticket. And many people LOVE reading through the trial and error! I personally rather read a blog/book were the people are honest about issues and hardships so I can learn from them and root for them. A website/blog/book with glossy pictures and sugar coated reality is sure pretty to look at, but thats all you can do... LOOK at it. You don't feel it in your soul or learn a d**n thing from it. It just floats there all pretty like while you wonder what is actually happening behind the scenes. I mean I LOVE good pictures... but those pictures need a "voice/soul" behind them!!! You don't have to be an expert at it, people want to learn along with you and cheer you on! :rock:


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Ernie said:


> Thanks. Blogging is something I haven't really done much of in quite awhile.
> 
> As for the hard feelings of it, well, the same haters who followed my first blog followed me to my second one, and my third one, and my fourth one (which is the old one you are saying). If I created yet ANOTHER one, they'd follow me to that one too. Right now there's a substantial number of them following me on Facebook. You might have noticed how a lot of them disappeared from this subforum while I was away but they showed right back up as soon as they heard there was a target to attack.
> 
> ...


i miss the radio show....i liked it alot....i wished you would do it even if it was only 5 minutes or 10 minutes...i think people like short glimpses into lives on how they do stuff...or short one minute vids on knife projects you are working on.i know one blacksmith that he does that on many of items he makes and at times he will put out long ranting videos when he cant contain it no longer...lol.....you should hear him spew about fraking and drilling.for me i am not looking for blogs on learning i enjoy seeing others homesteads and their struggles..it inspires me in my struggles even though i dont communicate with them.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Freya said:


> Hmm maybe moderating the comments section would help? Set comments to "moderator approval" and only publish non bashing ones. Then start linking up with other blogs/websites you admire and share traffic... it will bring in new blood not from here that wont be carrying the same baggage as some of the people following you around.
> 
> I have seen many homesteader blogs with religion mixed in, some were pushy and tried to cram it down your throat and some just gave simple nods to their beliefs that flowed well with the posts. Both types have their fans. You seem to be in a different place now, as you have said, and giving those nods along with comment moderation might be the ticket. And many people LOVE reading through the trial and error! I personally rather read a blog/book were the people are honest about issues and hardships so I can learn from them and root for them. A website/blog/book with glossy pictures and sugar coated reality is sure pretty to look at, but thats all you can do... LOOK at it. You don't feel it in your soul or learn a d**n thing from it. It just floats there all pretty like while you wonder what is actually happening behind the scenes. I mean I LOVE good pictures... but those pictures need a "voice/soul" behind them!!! You don't have to be an expert at it, people want to learn along with you and cheer you on! :rock:


you might like.

http://www.waldeneffect.org/


anna made a interesting comment from a book today...its from the world until yesterday book by diamond.....here it is

Another tip we can take away from traditional societies is a different way of looking at trade items. Diamond notes that members of traditional societies trade for both useful and luxury items even if the communities could have easily learned how to make the traded-for items on their own. Why not be self-sufficient if you can be? Diamond's conclusion is that trade is really about cementing bonds between the traders just as much as it is about getting something you really need. In fact, traditional societies often have a time lapse between gifts, so it's more like you're building social capital by giving a gift than like you're bartering. Those of us raised in a money-based society may find this technique odd, but I feel like using social capital to build relationships is just as valuable in modern societies as it was in ancient ones.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

elkhound said:


> you might like.
> 
> http://www.waldeneffect.org/



Yep I like that one. 

And she/they are a good example of cross promotion and marketing! She comments on MANY other blogs (link backs), people talk about them, they have books on Amazon, there are published interviews, people pin them on Pinterest, etc... word of mouth is HUGE with them! They also cross promote several of their own business blogs on there and on the other sites. They got the word out well. :clap:


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## KentuckyDreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

I just did something I never thought I would do; sent my son to play on his video game. I started reading this thread and could not stop. I had to read every post and wanted to do so without distraction. One of the best threads ever...at least for me at this time in my life.

I have learned so much! There were so many posts I wanted to quote but for now, I will just note one ( no, two );

Ernie noted you will know when you are doing God's will when all the obstacles fall away (paraphrasing ). I am holding to that thought.

Ernie lamented the fact there is not a community to help each other ( again, paraphrasing ). I am going to take that into consideration during my search.

This thread has made me think that if we are surviving, thriving, or barely holding on, there are others either going through it with you, or have been there before. With that type of sharing, things are easier. 

Thank you for all the wonderful shares and info...now I will pull my son from the WII.


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

elkhound said:


> i miss the radio show....i liked it alot....i wished you would do it even if it was only 5 minutes or 10 minutes...i think people like short glimpses into lives on how they do stuff...or short one minute vids on knife projects you are working on.i know one blacksmith that he does that on many of items he makes and at times he will put out long ranting videos when he cant contain it no longer...lol.....you should hear him spew about fraking and drilling.for me i am not looking for blogs on learning i enjoy seeing others homesteads and their struggles..it inspires me in my struggles even though i dont communicate with them.


I watched a few of them and I really liked it. :goodjob:


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

Our 7+ acre farm with old house and old barn cost in property tax $570 a year. We get half of it back from the government because we are over 65 yrs.. Our telephone is a land line which cost $34.50 a month including the 15% goods and service tax we pay on almost everything in Nova Scotia. Our power bill comes every two months. the present one was $38.oo. Only $14.00 of that was actual usage. The rest is tax and minimum basic charge. We have a big freezer and a small one , lights, water pump, hot plate, toaster oven, and dehydrator used in the summer to dry fruit etc. We don't have a hot water heater, electric stove or clothesd dryer or anything that concumes huge amounts of power.Those are our only three on going bills. we are extremely careful with electric as power rates are high here and just went up another 3.2% In january. 

We have no vehicle, no house insurance, no life insurance or medical insurance. The government here provides some medical care through the 15% tax we pay on most everything but the medical doesn't cover medicine or some surgeries. After 65 yr. pharmacare kicks in so a person only pays i/3 of their perscription price. 

We grow turnips, cattle beets and potatoes for feed for the horse and goats. We only buy the occasional bag of goat ration. The goats get some grain before freshening and while on the milk stand to keep them occupied while being milked. The horse gets no grain. The hens only get a small amount of cracked corn. We also feed wheat we grow to the. The hens are free ranged and the goats and horse eat pasture fron spring to fall and hay in the winter.
Our living expenses are very mininumal. We have recently cut the goats to two does. One is bred and the will be soon and we have one neutered buck for meat this year. The old horse won't be replaced when he dies. The hens have been cut to 12 hens. We will keep animals to a few so we can grow their feed and buy very little.

We don't have a house payment and if we sell the farm and move we won't have a house payment. Cutting back expenses is how we live frugally. We do barter and trade at times such as vegetables for fish or traded a tiller for a bigger one. We also recycle and fix and use things others throw away. All our clothes are second hand except under wear and shoes / boots. Expensive thigs for us are eye glasses. It just cost us almost $500 for two pairs for my husband. Another big expense will be the dentist to replace his teeth. There is no way around those costs.
Our way of thinking is it isn't important how much money we make. But it is how much we don't spend that counts. We have lived this way so long even if I were to become suddenly rich I couldn't waste money!


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

KentuckyDreamer said:


> This thread has made me think that if we are surviving, thriving, or barely holding on, there are others either going through it with you, or have been there before. With that type of sharing, things are easier.


 :buds:


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## SimplerTimez (Jan 20, 2008)

I too, would like to extend my thanks to all who posted here about how they are doing things and how they live. It is extremely informative and inspiring to new kids on the block like myself. I appreciate the time you each gave to do so.

~ST


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Ernie said:


> Yeah, Ed, the rabbits keeled over from a combination of transport stress and heat. This new batch is doing better but they lost their kits, probably due to transport stress again.
> 
> We'll give them another try but then we may just give up on rabbits.
> 
> .




Are you having any better luck on the rabbits so far this year?


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Rabbits were a tough one for us to get going here as well..we had heat issues..moms eating their young...difficulty in getting others in our group to eat the cute bunnies...i was just about to give it up...but we stuck with it and finally it started to go better and work for us as a source of food


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## hurryiml8 (Apr 15, 2009)

Aintlifegrand said:


> Rabbits were a tough one for us to get going here as well..we had heat issues..moms eating their young...difficulty in getting others in our group to eat the cute bunnies...i was just about to give it up...but we stuck with it and finally it started to go better and work for us as a source of food


I, too, have stuck with rabbits after a rocky start. Now the freezer is full! They take a bit of learning to deal with.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

BUMPING back up! :thumb:


It's almost summer and wanted to see how the rest of winter and spring went this year? 

How did the weird winter affect everyone? :grin:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Winter went ok and wasn't any weirder than the rest of the weird days go. 

Spring is glorious this year. We've got plenty of cash on hand and the garden is burying us in food. The pond is full and things are pretty rock solid around here.

I'm done with bunnies. I've got 2 males and 1 female if anyone wants to come get them. Female is pregnant, maybe.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

The bad winter cost us some fruit trees and many rose bushes. We are still cleaning up from the ice storm. We have piles of wood, much of it not worth useing for heat. Dh bought me a used chipper so I can make my own rather than get chips for lineing my pathways from the mulch place. We are haveing a dry spring. It looks like makeing hay might be a tad challenging. We sold some feeders because the pastures cannot sustain them without rain.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

My stock tanks are so low you can see the bottoms. Got enough rain to green things up a bit though.


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

Homesteader said:


> could you tell us a little about how you do it?........show us how you do it!


Good fences from the start. If you intend to keep livestock, this is vital to containing them and protecting them. Anything less costs time and money. Skimping here is false economy. Boundary fences are vital - internal fencing can catch up later if necessary.

Get good trained herd dogs (at least one - you and "the dog" can train others), and get good training yourself in how to work with them.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

My bull (started on goat milk last June...and fed free bagels all winter) is over 700 pounds....starting a veal calf for the butcher as partial payment on bull butcher...

Gardens are mostly planted and doing well...

Push mower with bagger is cutting hay bill way down....2-3 baggers full = half the hay ration a day for a dzn goats and the bull.

The rabbits chewed holes in their cages over the winter and so we let them go colony style...we have 7 babies so far.

3 goats did not breed (primary buck died prior to breeding and jr only bred 2 does) but they are still in milk and the 2 that had kids in May are ready to start weaning babies and adding to the milk pail.

12 new pullets...9 tetra tints, 1 silkie, 2 Japanese bantams...getting 7 eggs a day from 8 hens with the 9 tetras chiming in by Sept....hoping the banties will perpetuate the flock. Would like to make a nice house for the banties as they are much smaller than the rest. All the new birds are super friendly.

DH is working full-time and his depression has improved significantly. He is still ANGRY with the politicians these days....but who isnt?


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

I'm so glad to hear that about your husband - depression is no fun for anyone.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

mpillow said:


> DH is working full-time and his depression has improved significantly. He is still ANGRY with the politicians these days....but who isnt?


Anger can be addicting.

Turn off the radio, the news, and the political forums and see if he's still angry. You don't have to follow politics if they make you angry.

Frankly, I'd rather listen to the birds sing than to turn to one of the political talk shows. Morons who don't know me or my way of life trying to sell advertising space in return for stressing me out.

I don't care what Obama is doing ... I'd rather watch the rattlesnake who lives up on the valley rim in a big pile of rocks. I don't care what the Republicans or Democrats are doing ... I can watch the scissortails chase off crows in the pasture. It's like your own daily air show with death defying stunts.

When it comes right down to it ... all my favorite people are animals.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Im happy to hear things going well for everyone..Spring has been really good for us for a change...tornadoes went all around us but never to us..which is good for us as we just finished up most of the damage repairs from the past two years of tornadoes and hail. Garden is doing so well we havent bought any produce from the store in many months. All the goat kids except my last late girl have been born and weaned..so of course we are overflowing with milk..the hens are laying close to three dozen eggs a day and the roosters are about a week from freezer..we have picked wild berries for a month and half now and have more canned berry items than ever before. All here is been good and we feel the Fathers blessing everyday.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Ernie, over the length of time I've known you, there is a remarkable change.

I'm glad to see you at peace.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Ernie said:


> Anger can be addicting.
> 
> Turn off the radio, the news, and the political forums and see if he's still angry. You don't have to follow politics if they make you angry.
> 
> ...


I was loving it until you brought up Mr Rattlesnake..when we lived there we had one huge one on our front porch..me and the kids went out the back door and locked ourselves in the van until he moved on..lol..lots of rattlers there..not so many here..copperheads are the snake djour here


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Heh. Thanks, Angie, I think?  I'm a work in progress.

I don't mind snakes so long as they stay away from the house. I know not to bother Brother Rattlesnake and he knows not to bother me. I can find him sunning on his big rock most any morning I go up there on the valley rim. He's about 5' or so. A granddaddy of a snake.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

It's not just the tv for him its talk radio as well. I often ask him to change the station/channel and sometimes he does but not often enough. 

Anger is addicting....my nickname for DH is Grumpy Gus....because it is his first go to emotion. He is unwilling or unable to see what it is doing to him or his family. He can only change himself.....


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

:grit: Constant anger will put you in the grave early. 

Your body responds to stress, no matter the source. And it tears you down until eventually there is nothing left.:awh:


:grouphug:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

mpillow said:


> It's not just the tv for him its talk radio as well. I often ask him to change the station/channel and sometimes he does but not often enough.
> 
> Anger is addicting....my nickname for DH is Grumpy Gus....because it is his first go to emotion. He is unwilling or unable to see what it is doing to him or his family. He can only change himself.....


My son found some study on the internet he was telling me about. Your brain releases pleasant chemicals when you hear or read something you agree with, and even more pleasant chemicals when you hear or read something you don't agree with. My son nicknamed it the "Limbaugh Rush".  

And there's a huge growth industry around selling you anger and fear. Websites like the Drudge Report sell ad space in return for filling up the page with shocking and horrifying headlines. Our local talk radio station goes from 9am to 5pm with Beck, then Rush, then Hannity and all of them talk about roughly the same issues. You can stay stressed out and angry almost 12 hours a day if you listen to talk radio and hit the political blogs and internet forums. That can't be good for you.

I choose life instead. When I go into the workshop I listen to my bible study, or I turn on the praise and worship radio station, or if I want to relax I'll just sit and listen to the birds. Because of my cataracts I had to give up smoking my pipe, so instead I chew sunflower seeds. There's a trail of shells to and from the cabin, the workshop, and the garden.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Ernie are you growing Sunflowers? Any you like the taste of the best?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Freya said:


> Ernie are you growing Sunflowers? Any you like the taste of the best?


I've got about 3 coming up but I don't know what type they are. $1 seed packets.  They didn't germinate well.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Winter was rough, we lost some fruit trees and had lots of repairs to do from the damage so much ice and snow did to coop doors, gates, fences etc. 

So much damage  I lost a few valuable birds too who just couldn't make it despite my best efforts. I'm going to be re thinking and changing all my insulation this summer.

Spring and summer so far has been extremely lush. Plenty of rain and plenty of sun.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

unless you grow the food for the chickens rabbits ect they cost money. I thought you bought in west va?


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

*{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} for everyone's winter losses!*


Ernie sorry to hear about the sunflowers. I hope you have better luck next go around!


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Ernie... how has the summer been treating you? Did you end up with any sunflowers after all? 


How is everyone else doing? Better luck after the winter?


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Wow there are almost 12,000 views on this thread! 


Guess it's popular! Lurkers come on out and post!!! :buds:


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## KentuckyDreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

As I posted before, for me, this was one of the most interesting threads. I gain so much in the way of information as well as philosophy from Ernie and Elkhound.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Ernie must be busy, I don't think he has posted anything since August 1.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

He made mention that "something" was going to be keeping him busy (and read difficult) for a couple months awhile back.....I never gleaned what the issue was but I hope things are going smoothly for him and his family....


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Just been cranking out the work. I've refocused a lot of my efforts around here towards the homeschooling sales as that's the major source of income for us now. My botany book for children was supposed to be published on September 7 but I'm now about four days behind and there's still plenty of proofing to do, so probably mid-September.

The garden was a bust this year. Just too long between rains. You can water all you want, but without rain to replenish the soil, you're just delaying the inevitable. A tomato plant can transpire 20+ gallons of water out of the ground on a hot day. Can you carry 20 gallons or more of water to every single tomato plant in a sustainable fashion? I can't. For the most part, gardens have to rely on rain and we just didn't get it. Even the old-time gardeners here didn't make it, and most of the ones I talk to didn't last as long as I did. I've still got some plants producing, but it's like a meal every 5 days now instead of the 2 meals per day we've had in previous years.

Got some sunflowers and kept my several of my heirloom plants alive through the drought season, so we'll have seed for next year.

We're alive, flush with cash, and everyone's healthy. We're pretty blessed right now.

I could use some prayers though on a decision that's been put before us. A missionary group could use our help and we'd end up moving to either South America or Africa. I'm scared to do either and I need to know whether or not it's God's will for us to go. No clear signs have been given yet.


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## KentuckyDreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

For the most part it sounds as if things are going well for you and yours. We are still treading water waiting for a sign. I have no doubt it will come.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Texas certainly has its problems but Oh boy, Africa and S.America have problems and then some. Yes moving to either place would scare the dickens out of me....


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

little rambling....in my garden we had a long dry spell of over 8 weeks....and it got so hot....that dang nuclear sun is just killing stuff...a homesteading friend here told me he actually lost grape vines and he says the sun cooked the leaves on it..on a sode note..he has grapes that are said cant be grown here...i cant remember what kind...but all 3 vines produced for him....now back to my garden..lol...then rain came...over 8 inches in 10-14 days and the uptake of water started rupturing my maters...the green ones handled it well but the ones starting to ripen ruptured...and the vines blighted.....it has now turned so humid the local weather people are saying its like south america here and i keep getting little douses of rain.the tomatoes are so full of water...but not rupturing...they leak on counter when picked from the stem.on a survival note...my back to eden garden has once again day in and day out proved to be more resilent on the long run.my tomatoes that are indeterminate are growing and setting fruit...now dont get me wrong its still not all roses as part of the tomatoes in back to eden never "took off" and grew right.dont know if its plants or the site or what.but never the less the only reason i have maters going into fall is because of that garden.a note about my tall super trellis....its working out great and an aspect of it is soon will be our usual first frost around oct 7th and with the high wire i can toss a old blanket across it to protect those plants....i may just be picking maters till snow flys...roflmao.

observe..adapt and strive forward !!!!


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Our gardens were "late" by 2 weeks but HOLY MOLY.....other than the green and yellow beans...everything is doing amazing.....of course we've had regular and then some rain...2-3 inches a week....some brief hot spells which helped the cukes, zukes and tomatoes....at 60 days my red potatoes were as heavy as 6 oz!!
We cut a bunch of firewood...we had about 12 cord tree length and its down to about 4...the rest is cut/split/stacked

Sadly....I'm running out of canning jars....and the tomatoes are ripening like mad...and there are at last count 37 rabbits, the bull, 3-4 goats and some 5-6 old hens to butcher....now that its cooler I may have to get out some knives....

The only country I'd consider moving to is Canada....but I like winter as long as the firewood is cut and dry!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

We're stocking up on wood here too. I'm determined this year to have actual stacks of wood instead of head-high piles of wood just laying on the ground. 

This is supposed to be a brutal winter. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I noticed this evening when I went for a swim that there are ducks on the pond that I've never seen before. They dive deep and come up with fish. They were eating like there was no tomorrow. And rattlesnakes are on the move too, which is weird. Everything seems "off" this year, or perhaps it's just the rhthym I have become accustomed to is changing.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

What parts of South America or Africa Ernie? That would be a BIG deciding factor for me!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Freya said:


> What parts of South America or Africa Ernie? That would be a BIG deciding factor for me!


South America would be up in the air, but for Africa it would likely be Uganda. 

I don't know that it's going to happen though. The agency seems to have a sort of "we'll call you when we feel like it" attitude that doesn't make me feel very comfortable about being there with them as my only means of support. Going to take a lot of praying on this one to get me past my fear.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

If your gut is already saying something to you then listen! 

You worked IT right? Ever get recruiting calls that set your gut off as something was funny? Something that just made you not trust them? Then you say no thanks and talk to other recruiters.

If you are talking about taking your family to a dangerous and/or foreign country, then you need to feel 110% comfy with the people/organization sending you!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Freya said:


> If your gut is already saying something to you then listen!
> 
> You worked IT right? Ever get recruiting calls that set your gut off as something was funny? Something that just made you not trust them? Then you say no thanks and talk to other recruiters.
> 
> If you are talking about taking your family to a dangerous and/or foreign country, then you need to feel 110% comfy with the people/organization sending you!


God sends me, not people. But I have to make absolutely sure. These people may just be a catalyst to put my feet on the right path and things may not transpire for years, if ever.

My gut is the second most untrustworthy thing I know ... second only to my brain. 

I'm ready to go where I'm sent, but I need it to be made clear. We're waiting. Once the path is revealed, we generally go pretty quick, but there's always the waiting.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Ernie- just a thought- but God also placed you where you are now- and maybe you aren't getting a clear thought of what to do - because what you need to do- where you are isn't finished yet?
God may have you placed where you are for a good reason and the task hasn't presented it's self yet...

at least that was my initial thoughts when I read your posts and I felt compelled to type them out


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Becka03 said:


> Ernie- just a thought- but God also placed you where you are now- and maybe you aren't getting a clear thought of what to do - because what you need to do- where you are isn't finished yet?
> God may have you placed where you are for a good reason and the task hasn't presented it's self yet...
> 
> at least that was my initial thoughts when I read your posts and I felt compelled to type them out


It's always a possibility. Which is why we pray ... so God can sort those thoughts out for us.

I have a personal tendency to always be chasing that Big Rock Candy Mountain, which is always located at our NEXT homestead and not the one I'm on. Knowing that tendency in myself, I spend a little extra time praying for guidance.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Ernie said:


> It's always a possibility. Which is why we pray ... so God can sort those thoughts out for us.
> 
> I have a personal tendency to always be chasing that Big Rock Candy Mountain, which is always located at our NEXT homestead and not the one I'm on. Knowing that tendency in myself, I spend a little extra time praying for guidance.


this makes me happy to read- I don't know why- call it Woman's intuition- call it cyber prayer and God speaking to me - call it what ever you want- but I have had a heavy heart since I read your post about moving to another country- I am stepping out on a limb- and not going to worry about stepping on your toes- I strongly feel the urge to tell you not to go anywhere- that you are where you are because you are supposed to be there- 
and of course I have nothing to back that up with- but that is why it is called Faith- right?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Some people thought I was crazy for moving to Texas and living off-grid, but we've survived and thrived. 

I went down to the pond this evening and took a dip. Submerged up to my neck and watching the sunset is a great time to pray. When I finished, I looked up and a mother doe had led a spotted fawn out of the woods and down to the water's edge to drink, about 30 feet from me. They drank and then moved up the hill to the valley rim. I feel all Saint Francis now. 

We will do what God wants us to do and go where He wants us to go. We wait on Him now to tell us.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Ernie said:


> Some people thought I was crazy for moving to Texas and living off-grid, but we've survived and thrived.
> 
> I went down to the pond this evening and took a dip. Submerged up to my neck and watching the sunset is a great time to pray. When I finished, I looked up and a mother doe had led a spotted fawn out of the woods and down to the water's edge to drink, about 30 feet from me. They drank and then moved up the hill to the valley rim. I feel all Saint Francis now.
> 
> We will do what God wants us to do and go where He wants us to go. We wait on Him now to tell us.


and I feel good knowing that- and that you trust God...
I also felt the need to post what I did- 
but I also feel that you know best with guidance from God


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Becka03 said:


> this makes me happy to read- I don't know why- call it Woman's intuition- call it cyber prayer and God speaking to me - call it what ever you want- but I have had a heavy heart since I read your post about moving to another country- I am stepping out on a limb- and not going to worry about stepping on your toes- I strongly feel the urge to tell you not to go anywhere- that you are where you are because you are supposed to be there-
> and of course I have nothing to back that up with- but that is why it is called Faith- right?


i wanna holler...keep yalls rear in texas.....!!!! we need ernie here.....for the coming implosion.

i may start pm'ing him and go paleo hebrew on him....lol


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

When I fantasize about moving from here, it's to Hawaii or Costa Rica where women wear coconut bras, bananas and mangos fall right out of the trees into your lap, and the rivers run with Pina Colada year round. There's no mosquitoes, no blazing hot summers and freezing cold winters, and no tax collectors.

Africa has never entered into the picture before. And I REALLY do not want to go there. But Jonah didn't want to go to Nineveh either. And I'm not quite so stubborn as to refuse until a whale shows up. Hopefully this is just one of those little things that pop up in your life and test your resolve but that you don't have to go through with.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

you will get ya chance....2nd exodus coming soon if we live long enough

ever think hes telling you to get ya BOB ready??


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

* Isaiah 11:11-12King James Version (KJV)*

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the *second time *to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.






* Isaiah 11:15King James Version (KJV)*

15 And the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

elkhound said:


> i wanna holler...keep yalls rear in texas.....!!!! we need ernie here.....for the coming implosion.
> 
> i may start pm'ing him and go paleo hebrew on him....lol


AMEN:clap::clap::clap:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

elkhound said:


> you will get ya chance....2nd exodus coming soon if we live long enough
> 
> ever think hes telling you to get ya BOB ready??


I dunno. I'm not as plugged in to the world as I used to be. I sort of laugh at politics now, particularly the liberal versus conservative paradigm. So the concept of impending disaster doesn't even hit my radar any more. I guess partly because we've lived so close to disaster over the past couple of years that I'm now numb to it. 

Both my wife and I feel that this farm in Texas is our "halfway place". My wife thinks its where we were supposed to be until we were ready to be in the next spot. We just woke up one morning and it didn't feel like home. We hadn't been thinking or talking about moving, but by the time that morning's coffee finished brewing we both looked at each other and started discussing it. 

Neither of us make plans any more. Too many have fallen apart when they didn't have God's backing, and the stuff we never thought would work out for us has turned into our biggest blessings. Life is funny that way, I suppose.

We're now geared though that we can get by anywhere in the world and under any conditions. Our minds are ready, our skills are honed ... here we are, Lord. Send us.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

How will you get a passport? Can you get a new SSN?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Tiempo said:


> How will you get a passport? Can you get a new SSN?


Don't need a new one. The old one is still assigned to me and the government still uses it as an identifier.

When you resign your SS, they stop taking the payments out of your paycheck and any money you have put into the system is forfeit. But the number is still assigned to you and on the books, as far as I know.

I might have to brush it off and use it one last time, but I'm not even sure about that. I have a birth certificate, a DD214, and an expired passport to use as identification.


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## BlueRose (Mar 7, 2013)

:hijacked: How do you know if GOD is speaking to you? I am a fairly new Christian trying to learn and study have lots of questions and dont understand a lot of stuff.

Thank you


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Tough question. It's something you'll struggle with for your entire Christian experience. I will give you my process and hope it helps you. Feel free to ask any questions you'd like, here or in PM if you're uncomfortable.

First, pray and fast. Prayer needs to be a constant activity. It needs to be routine. Fasting helps open up those spiritual channels.

Once you're in the zone, so to speak, start listening to that "small, still voice" you've heard about. The Holy Spirit is the way God will commune with you, most often. I often pray for a burning bush or an angel to deliver the message, but it's never been that easy. 

The Holy Spirit will begin to move you towards where God wants you to go. Keep focusing on that message and then go through the next three steps:

1. Compare what you're being told to the bible. God is not going to tell you to do something that isn't biblical. Spend some time there and ask God to use that bible study to further your understanding of what He is wanting you to do.

2. Talk you your Christian friends and mentors about what you're being led towards. Put it out there. Don't get emotionally invested in it because you may very well be wrong. The inspiration you think you received may not really be. Don't expect your fellow Christians to universally support you though. They are a sounding board, not a cheering section. It may very well be that God is telling you to do something that they might not have the faith to do, and you may not get good advice. But speak to them anyway because it will help clarify things.

3. Pray for God to make His will perfectly clear. This is not "testing" God, but rather making sure. I truly believe that your earnest desire to please God DOES please God, but He also knows what a muddy glass we perceive the world through. If you ask Him to make it clear through your circumstances, He will. Be alert to those things. It may be a series of random conversations with strangers, songs or sermons that just randomly pop up, or anything. 

Once you're in that prayerful spirit, these things come more clearly. It takes a long time to develop those prayerful habits though, and many Christians never get there. They simply don't pray enough. We should pray unceasingly. Night and day. Through every step and thought. When you make that sort of time to pray, you make room for God to give you messages in a clearer fashion.

Hope that helps some, and God bless.


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## BlueRose (Mar 7, 2013)

I really have trouble speaking to Jesus I spend all my time asking HIM into my heart begging forgivness. I have been baptist 5 times felt good the day of next day not so good. 

I do not drive so going to church is not possible. I have asked 3 different churches if someone could come pick me up. The Jehovah Witness said that they could send someone. I have heard so much bad about them however everyone of them seem more Christian then other so called Christians I have met.

I just realized that I dont know what church you go to. If Istepped on toes I am sorry.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

_I dont pray constantly or fast...._

but I find that there is a lesson/meaning in every new person I meet, every adverse situation that is resolved, and things in nature that I witness both good and bad....and the growth and health and well being of my family. And when a kindness is given to me I am reminded to do more for others everyday. I try to think of things to be thankful for both generally and specifically everyday....and say a special thank you to someone I don't know.....this morning it was a very helpful lady on the phone dealing with insurance "stuff".


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

BlueRose said:


> I really have trouble speaking to Jesus I spend all my time asking HIM into my heart begging forgivness. I have been baptist 5 times felt good the day of next day not so good.
> 
> I do not drive so going to church is not possible. I have asked 3 different churches if someone could come pick me up. The Jehovah Witness said that they could send someone. I have heard so much bad about them however everyone of them seem more Christian then other so called Christians I have met.
> 
> I just realized that I dont know what church you go to. If Istepped on toes I am sorry.


Christianity is one thing, and unfortunately sectarian churchism is quite another. 

We don't go to church here ... church comes to us.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

We dont go "formal" either....as a kid I was raised Catholic and had all the formality I needed for the rest of my life!


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