# Stealing off the tree - watch yer gardens!



## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

One of our neighbors has several peach trees... and an unfenced yard. Peaches were just ready to pick and they had planned to pick early one morning last week only to wake up, go outside to see that every tree had been completely picked clean sometime during the night.

This is in a neighborhood where there's never been problems like that before. They have lived there for a loooong time. Like decades.

Of course, there is a semi-new subdivision across the street from them now with lower to median income families living there.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

JGex said:


> One of our neighbors has several peach trees... and an unfenced yard. Peaches were just ready to pick and they had planned to pick early one morning last week only to wake up, go outside to see that every tree had been completely picked clean sometime during the night.
> 
> This is in a neighborhood where there's never been problems like that before. They have lived there for a loooong time. Like decades.
> 
> Of course, there is a semi-new subdivision across the street from them now with lower to median income families living there.



So it has begun. Hmm.



The '30's experienced Food Riots, that is, a hoard of people (who in particular had a hungry kid or kids) would rush into a grocery store, grab what they could, and run like Apollo. 

Getting shot at wasn't an issue, apparently. With hungry kids and all.



Dogs come in handy, but as FerFAL has noted in Argentina, dogs can be poisoned by neighbors - just gotta watch these things.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Big loud dogs are needed by homesteaders to warn about thieves in the night. I currently keep 3 of them roaming my property. I also have a really mean attack kitten!


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## northprairiegir (Apr 11, 2008)

I had to deal with this a couple of times last season. The first time was one day when we went to town and came home to find that someone had paid us a visit and taken several things from our garden. It happened again about two weeks later when we were running errands. Even though we didn't catch the person red handed - I am pretty sure it was the neighbors who live closst to us. They are the only ones who would to be able to closely track when we were leaving, ect. Bad thing about it is - if they would have just come over and asked - we would have shared! I had even offered to share before that.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

This is barely a scratch on the surface of what's to come. Cornfields from Wisconsin to Iowa are underwater. On a recent trip to Milwaukee I passed cornfield after cornfield that if it wasn't flooded had nothing but dead standing corn less than a foot high. Saw more than a few $200,000 tractors sunk up to the axle in mud.

With so much corn gone it's going to ripple right up the ol' food chain. Less corn means less beef, pork, and chicken as well. The ag report mentioned that rail lines and barge routes are unavailable as well, so we're going to have a harder time moving food to markets unless they can get those repaired and going again pretty soon. Meanwhile, the Mississippi continues to rise.

I've noticed an increase in traffic at my farm from people stopping by to ask what we have to sell. They all seem worried, though not all of them are worried enough yet to dig deeper into their pockets and pay above Walmart prices. We'll see how it goes in the next 5 months.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

And I thought it was bad, when the deer were getting the apples from the lower branches off of my fruit trees!!!!!!!! Not to mention making a salad bar out of my attempts to have a garden up here.

Why do folks, think it is OK to trespass and steal from others. When I did catch a burglar/ thief redhanded in 2004 down at the old house, the County DA would not proscute them... Maybe next time I should have an "accidental discharge", while holding the thief at gunpoint till the Sheriff's Deputy arrives!

I do not have big loud dogs, but a very alert Guard Cat!!!


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

My inlaws have a couple of old apple trees on their property, about 20 yards from the road. Usually they let one of their Amish neighbors pick and keep most of the apples, since they're not interested in having more than a few in the crisper drawer. 

Last year my MIL looked outside only to see a truck parked on the side of the road and at least 10 Mexican-appearing men frantically picked and boxing her apples. She sent FIL outside to ask them what they were doing (dangerous, IMO) and they were pretty defiant about it. He demanded they leave, and finally they did, but they had nearly stripped the trees.

She came home from the grocery store recently (FIL was asleep in the house) and her cherry tree had been picked clean, but she didn't see who did it.

I'm not convinced this is hunger or desperation at this point, it's just thievery and greed.


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## Rockytopsis (Dec 29, 2007)

This is happened to me twice. Once a neighbor hood kid picked all the black berries and had the nerve to try and sell them to me, the next time I came home to find my green beans picked. We are now fenced in with 4 dogs in the yard.


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## booklover (Jan 22, 2007)

My next door neighbors moved to Arizona. The husband has a good job out there and the wife and kids followed him to see if they liked it out there. So, the house stands empty while they decide what to do. They have a very nice, large area where they put in their garden. However it is not fenced-in and is close to the road. They told me I could put in a garden there over the summer, but with nobody in the house I was sure that the less than desirables in the neighborhood would reap the benefits rather than me. I fear that this stealing from gardens is going to become rather commonplace.


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## Trixters_muse (Jan 29, 2008)

I had such an experience just this past week, someone took all of my tomatoes plant and all!!


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

northprairiegir said:


> I had to deal with this a couple of times last season. The first time was one day when we went to town and came home to find that someone had paid us a visit and taken several things from our garden. It happened again about two weeks later when we were running errands. Even though we didn't catch the person red handed - I am pretty sure it was the neighbors who live closst to us. They are the only ones who would to be able to closely track when we were leaving, ect. Bad thing about it is - if they would have just come over and asked - we would have shared! I had even offered to share before that.


This may not initially make sense, but go ahead and give them a few. They'll probably be cut to the heart (it would be apparent, to them at least, that you don't suspect anything), and then they'll stop pilfering your stuff.

Eventually, with a little help, they'll grow their own.




___
after reading the rest of the posts, I figured I needed to edit.

Have to use discernment when dealing with the human race, I suppose. Not all situations are the same.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

Ernie said:


> I've noticed an increase in traffic at my farm from people stopping by to ask what we have to sell. They all seem worried, though not all of them are worried enough yet to dig deeper into their pockets and pay above Walmart prices. We'll see how it goes in the next 5 months.



Probably being tactical, because I'm thinking of approaching local farmers myself.

Better to have relationships now than later. Easier to barter with people whom you trust.


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## Mysticdream44 (Dec 29, 2004)

Mom_of_Four said:


> My inlaws have a couple of old apple trees on their property, about 20 yards from the road. Usually they let one of their Amish neighbors pick and keep most of the apples, since they're not interested in having more than a few in the crisper drawer.
> 
> Last year my MIL looked outside only to see a truck parked on the side of the road and at least 10 Mexican-appearing men frantically picked and boxing her apples. She sent FIL outside to ask them what they were doing (dangerous, IMO) and they were pretty defiant about it. He demanded they leave, and finally they did, but they had nearly stripped the trees.
> 
> ...



Why does THAT not surprise me?? :flame: Another freebie as far as they are concerned, even if they did have to steal them.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

I would lose my mind with rage if this happened to me.

I would give it if asked. Would not starve without it. What would get my goat is the feeling of violation, someone having their way on OUR family ground. The nerve it takes to steal food from somebodies yard is beyond reproach.

I would also quickly load the shotgun and make sure they had to replace some tires. I'm okay with an arrest, it's the principle.......

I'm a hot head and something like that would set me off like a 4th of July hillbilly fireworks hoedown! 

I'm sane enough to admit I don't take kindly to people messin' around on our ground. Seen too much trash dumped, buildings damaged, dogs running to play fetch in dried soy, people picking "wild" asparagus in the road ditch 50 feet from my front door and crops with spin out/donut marks in them!

I scared the heck out of a surveyor who got mouthy with me when I asked him if he had permission to go driving on our side of the fence line, "no big deal he said".........it is if you get caught without permission and get an attitude when called out.


*taking a deep breath*

What people need is a lesson in respect, I'm okay with giving it 


ETA: Before I look like a total wingnut I must say this was in response to the post about 10 guys jumping out of trucks to clean apple trees. Had it been a random passer by with no manners I would have gone about it much more delicately. (release the hounds and baracuda in the moat)


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Mom_of_Four said:


> My inlaws have a couple of old apple trees on their property, about 20 yards from the road. Usually they let one of their Amish neighbors pick and keep most of the apples, since they're not interested in having more than a few in the crisper drawer.
> 
> Last year my MIL looked outside only to see a truck parked on the side of the road and at least 10 Mexican-appearing men frantically picked and boxing her apples. She sent FIL outside to ask them what they were doing (dangerous, IMO) and they were pretty defiant about it. He demanded they leave, and finally they did, but they had nearly stripped the trees.
> 
> ...


 I totally agree tht the mexican fruit pickers would totally blow mind.

Their are also trends in the leftie side of the survivalist movement that teach people to steal. Look up gleaning, Urban foraging maybe some of you know some other names for it. They figure it's perfectly acceptable to go and pick things from the roadside or What look to be abandoned fields.  Heck their are even people that figure this is how they will get by if SHTF. 

So yes watch your land and stock.


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## Hip_Shot_Hanna (Apr 2, 2005)

Spinner said:


> Big loud dogs are needed by homesteaders to warn about thieves in the night. I currently keep 3 of them roaming my property. I also have a really mean attack kitten!


Hey attack cats work , a guy in Europe threw his cat at a intruder it fliped him down the stairs and gave him a broken leg . not bad for a Kitty


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

I hope those folks can put up a nice tall fence around their property now and get a dog or two. The thieves will be back again looking for free food.


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## kitaye (Sep 19, 2005)

Years ago my Mom, while still working full time, put in a garden far to large for herself. She made a deal with the family of my brothers-in-law that if they helped care for it they could have some of the yields. They never once showed up to weed so my mom figured they weren't interested.

When produce started getting ready she noticed a great deal of it was missing and assumed it was the "no good --------" that lived in a small subdivision down the road from her. Her car went into the shop one day on her day off and she was sitting at the table drinking coffee when the family van pulled up and the in laws piled out to go strip everything ripe out of the garden at around 5am.

She decided against a garden for the next few years even though the in laws kept asking if she was putting in one. I admit it breaks my heart to see fruit left on the tree and lying on the ground unwanted but I would never pick without asking unless I knew for a fact the place was abandoned or the trees wild.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Mom_of_Four said:


> My inlaws have a couple of old apple trees on their property, about 20 yards from the road. Usually they let one of their Amish neighbors pick and keep most of the apples, since they're not interested in having more than a few in the crisper drawer.
> 
> Last year my MIL looked outside only to see a truck parked on the side of the road and at least 10 Mexican-appearing men frantically picked and boxing her apples. She sent FIL outside to ask them what they were doing (dangerous, IMO) and they were pretty defiant about it. He demanded they leave, and finally they did, but they had nearly stripped the trees.
> 
> ...


There was some implication by the neighbors that they felt this was exactly what happened there. They think they were stolen to sell, not eat ,but nonetheless, they were stolen.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Chuck-prime said:


> This may not initially make sense, but go ahead and give them a few. They'll probably be cut to the heart (it would be apparent, to them at least, that you don't suspect anything), and then they'll stop pilfering your stuff.
> 
> Eventually, with a little help, they'll grow their own.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I just caught your edit.... I was going to say that you have a real nice thought there, but there are just a lot of people not willing to put the sweat equity into raising a garden.


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## nana9 (Mar 5, 2007)

I have a fenced in yard with an electric gate. About 2 weeks ago the dog I have in the house came into the kitchen going to the door just growling with hair standing up all over her. I went to the door and their were 2 men pulling everything out of my freezer in my storage room. I let the dog out and about the same time my 2 big outside dogs came running around to the carport. I pull my gun out and called 911. When the sheriff came up and after he had them in custody they also had guns on them as well. About that time my son came home and he is on the K-9 unit in another town and these were guys they had been hunting for several break-in in their town. Their truck was parked down the rode and it was full of food- clothing and tools. They even had my food put in the trash can on a 2-wheel hand cart.

So little dog got extra treats. They had come in over the fence and had a ladder still propped against the fence.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

stanb999 said:


> I totally agree tht the mexican fruit pickers would totally blow mind.
> 
> Their are also trends in the leftie side of the survivalist movement that teach people to steal. Look up gleaning, Urban foraging maybe some of you know some other names for it. They figure it's perfectly acceptable to go and pick things from the roadside or What look to be abandoned fields.  Heck their are even people that figure this is how they will get by if SHTF.
> 
> So yes watch your land and stock.


Stan, I'm sure you know I'm fairly liberal on the social end of things, but I got to tell you that when I first read about this urban foraging BS, I was outraged. How DARE someone think they can just come pick a field just because they don't think anyone is caring for it?

I do know someone that called the real estate companies in his area and asked if they had properties that had fruit trees that needed picking. Fallen fruit rotting stinks and draws flies. It's messy, so he proposed to the real estate companies that he would keep the fruit trees clean until the property sold. Some of the companies went for it, some didn't but I do think he had a brilliant way of legally picking as much fruit as he could get.


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

JGex said:


> .... I do know someone that called the real estate companies in his area and asked if they had properties that had fruit trees that needed picking. Fallen fruit rotting stinks and draws flies. It's messy, so he proposed to the real estate companies that he would keep the fruit trees clean until the property sold. Some of the companies went for it, some didn't but I do think he had a brilliant way of legally picking as much fruit as he could get.


Now THAT is a good idea!


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

kitaye said:


> Years ago my Mom, while still working full time, put in a garden far to large for herself. She made a deal with the family of my brothers-in-law that if they helped care for it they could have some of the yields. They never once showed up to weed so my mom figured they weren't interested.
> 
> When produce started getting ready she noticed a great deal of it was missing and assumed it was the "no good --------" that lived in a small subdivision down the road from her. Her car went into the shop one day on her day off and she was sitting at the table drinking coffee when the family van pulled up and the in laws piled out to go strip everything ripe out of the garden at around 5am.
> 
> She decided against a garden for the next few years even though the in laws kept asking if she was putting in one. I admit it breaks my heart to see fruit left on the tree and lying on the ground unwanted but I would never pick without asking unless I knew for a fact the place was abandoned or the trees wild.


We've got a set of relatives we're going to have to deal with this year that are expecting to get food out of our garden. Boy, do they have a reality check coming up....

They have 3 boys 18, 20, 21, who all live at home with no jobs. The little girl comes down here sometimes, so when FIL took her home last Friday, the boys, the dad, mom, granddad and 3 friends were sitting and laying around the living room watching Rambo. They asked FIL if he wanted to stay and he told them, "No, I have a garden that needs keeping."

I have no time or desire to give a handout to this lazy bunch. They won't pull a weed, either, but they will show up when the corn is pulled. I mean AFTER the corn is pulled. They'd never get their hands dirty.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

nana9 said:


> I have a fenced in yard with an electric gate. About 2 weeks ago the dog I have in the house came into the kitchen going to the door just growling with hair standing up all over her. I went to the door and their were 2 men pulling everything out of my freezer in my storage room. I let the dog out and about the same time my 2 big outside dogs came running around to the carport. I pull my gun out and called 911. When the sheriff came up and after he had them in custody they also had guns on them as well. About that time my son came home and he is on the K-9 unit in another town and these were guys they had been hunting for several break-in in their town. Their truck was parked down the rode and it was full of food- clothing and tools. They even had my food put in the trash can on a 2-wheel hand cart.
> 
> So little dog got extra treats. They had come in over the fence and had a ladder still propped against the fence.


Dang, nana9, glad you didn't end up in a confrontation with them. That's scary.

I have a freezer that is FULL in the storage room on top of the house. You have to get to it from the outside. I keep the door locked, but our fence is down right now until we can save enough to get a new one put up. I worry someone will cut the lock.....


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## nana9 (Mar 5, 2007)

I always have a gun close by when I'm by myself. If grandkids are here its close but out of their reach. Hubby taught me how to shoot long time ago and son who's on police force made me go to the shooting range with him and now I can hit were I want it to go. I think the suprise of the dogs and me with a gun and they didn't have any place to go since they were still in the storage room. Think goodness for cell phones at that time. 

Just be careful. This was at 10:00 in the morning. So glad I learned out to shoot and not afraid to use it if necessary.


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## Labrat407 (Aug 24, 2007)

JGex said:


> Stan, I'm sure you know I'm fairly liberal on the social end of things, but I got to tell you that when I first read about this urban foraging BS, I was outraged. How DARE someone think they can just come pick a field just because they don't think anyone is caring for it?
> 
> I do know someone that called the real estate companies in his area and asked if they had properties that had fruit trees that needed picking. Fallen fruit rotting stinks and draws flies. It's messy, so he proposed to the real estate companies that he would keep the fruit trees clean until the property sold. Some of the companies went for it, some didn't but I do think he had a brilliant way of legally picking as much fruit as he could get.



I am looking into a service like this as a community service for our local area to help the foodbank. There are several in Western Canada and in the US. It would be nice to have to get people to help themselves in an organized way. It would be open for people to pick for the food bank and also for themselves.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Nothing unusual here, every year we have people taking 50, 80, 100 corn stalks out of our fields for decorating their porches or whatnot. Catch a few at it but with 1100 acres scattered over 30 square miles now I can't be everywhere.

Now if I was just of an inclination to steal all the pot that people have growing in my corn, I guess I'd be even.


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## Mutti (Sep 7, 2002)

Sometimes I get irritated 'cause my DH keeps the garage locked ALWAYS--even when we are home and out in the yard-- but it is where our freezers,generator, and storage food room is and this is meth city out here in rural MO. They will steal anything for money. Glad for our Corgi who sounds like a Rottweiler behind closed doors! 
We only go to town on Tuesdays for our senior citizen discount but have decided not to both go on a known day. Only one bad apple of a neighbor on our road...the others watch out for each other and call when strange vehicles come down the road. We tease about our posse...three neighbors all with concealed weapons permits plus two Marines and my Army son who respond to any call for help!!! Not a good place to be looking for trouble. But road ends at river, a popular place for rowdies to drink beer and cause problems. Son works out of town on weekend so they keep a close eye on his place for his wife and two kids. DEE


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

JGex said:


> We've got a set of relatives we're going to have to deal with this year that are expecting to get food out of our garden. Boy, do they have a reality check coming up....
> 
> They have 3 boys 18, 20, 21, who all live at home with no jobs. The little girl comes down here sometimes, so when FIL took her home last Friday, the boys, the dad, mom, granddad and 3 friends were sitting and laying around the living room watching Rambo. They asked FIL if he wanted to stay and he told them, "No, I have a garden that needs keeping."
> 
> I have no time or desire to give a handout to this lazy bunch. They won't pull a weed, either, but they will show up when the corn is pulled. I mean AFTER the corn is pulled. They'd never get their hands dirty.


I deal with this at work and within my family .. everyone knows I have chickens/garden etc.. and they ask all the time if I can bring them some eggs or veggies/fruit...it really gets under my skin...I charge for everything...not a lot..but something to at least offset the feed/plant cost and work...

luckily I am so far hidden that theives haven't found us yet... I would be so mad just at the intrusion but for them to steal would be my undoing.


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## Sustainable Joy (Nov 17, 2007)

This is a problem that really concerns me. I am gardening on my patio in containers, and I have tons of stuff out there. A week ago, all the ripe eggplants up and disappeared. I thought a squirrel must have taken them... but do squirrels even eat eggplant? 

Plus someone stole our barbeque and a trash can we had out front. Sigh... I really hope nobody steals the rest of our food... I've put so much effort into tending this garden. It would tear me up to lose the food to some *expletive deleted* or some stupid teen pulling a prank.


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## fretti (Jun 30, 2007)

stanb999 said:


> ..Their are also trends in the leftie side of the survivalist movement that teach people to steal. Look up gleaning, Urban foraging maybe some of you know some other names for it..


Oh for god's sake. Does eveything have to be "liberals are bad" with you? Foraging and gleaning aren't necessarily stealing. I forage for a lot of things and ALWAYS with permission or on public lands. And stealing is stealing. Period. If it's taken without permission, it's stealing. It doesn't matter your persuasion.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

I love, love, love my dog. She has alerted me multiple times that there were people uninvited sneaking down back behind our house. Most of the time they are kids trying to find a place to drink beer, but at least I know that if someone is coming she will give me the heads up. She is large enough to be intimidating, and small enough to be quick and agile, and she sleeps on the bed with me when my husband is out of town. She is also a huge goofball, but you wouldn't know it with her teeth bared at you.

I am considering planting crabapples near the road, both for the pectin and because anyone who eats a bunch of them won't be coming back to my place for more. Maybe some berries that cause intestinal discomfort would be a good idea too.

Kayleigh


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Gleaning has biblical roots, and I wouldn't particularly have a problem with that. It's coming up and picking up spilled grain AFTER the harvest. Traditionally, widows and orphans were allowed to glean the fields after the harvest had been gathered in, and this was considered a way of tithing.

Picking every single veggie or piece of fruit is a totally different issue.


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## Firethorn (Nov 1, 2004)

Spinner said:


> Big loud dogs are needed by homesteaders to warn about thieves in the night. I currently keep 3 of them roaming my property. I also have a really mean attack kitten!


LOL


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## Firethorn (Nov 1, 2004)

stanb999 said:


> I totally agree tht the mexican fruit pickers would totally blow mind.
> 
> Their are also trends in the leftie side of the survivalist movement that teach people to steal. Look up gleaning, Urban foraging maybe some of you know some other names for it. They figure it's perfectly acceptable to go and pick things from the roadside or What look to be abandoned fields.  Heck their are even people that figure this is how they will get by if SHTF.
> 
> So yes watch your land and stock.



Actually I belong to a group called "gleaners". We DONT steal. EVER!!!! The term is cleaning the fields after a harvest. It is done WITH PERMISSION. We go to the orchards after they have taken anything tey will. There is always so much left that we can can a couple years worth of say Cherries. Or weeks worth of watermelon. the stuff just sits to rot if its not gleaned. We take what we find and our work at gathering it and feed several dozen hungry families. 
No NOT STEALING.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

"Gleaning" & the urban foraging I'm referring to is two different animals to me. 

There are organized groups that have "nocturnal fruit foraging" to locate and pick "public fruit" which is what they consider any thing hanging over public space, i.e., if your tree in your fenced yard hangs over the sidewalk, they are of the opinion it is there for the taking.

If you saw someone right outside of your fence at night with a fruit picker taking as much fruit as they consider "public" off of your trees, would you be OK with that?


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Firethorn said:


> Actually I belong to a group called "gleaners". We DONT steal. EVER!!!! The term is cleaning the fields after a harvest. It is done WITH PERMISSION. We go to the orchards after they have taken anything tey will. There is always so much left that we can can a couple years worth of say Cherries. Or weeks worth of watermelon. the stuff just sits to rot if its not gleaned. We take what we find and our work at gathering it and feed several dozen hungry families.
> No NOT STEALING.


I think "with permission" are the key words here.


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## Chuck (Oct 27, 2003)

a friend of mine said the other day a mustang pulled up in front of his house and a girl got out and ran over to their carport, where he had just been about to fill up the lawn mower. she grabbed the gas can and split before he could get outside.

Man. Makes me glad for the good fields of fire I have from all the upstairs windows.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Chuck said:


> a friend of mine said the other day a mustang pulled up in front of his house and a girl got out and ran over to their carport, where he had just been about to fill up the lawn mower. she grabbed the gas can and split before he could get outside.
> 
> Man. Makes me glad for the good fields of fire I have from all the upstairs windows.



Would the gas can ignite after the first bullet or would you need a follow up to cause a spark?


Oh, dang....we weren't talking about that kind of fire were we?:angel:

On a serious note, is it just me or are people sinking to an all time low? (better put your kids candy up, that's next)


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

well, last night I saw a cop car down in this cul de sac like end of road where I live. found out tonight it's cause there's gas taking happening about 2 am two trialer lots over from me, with the one between us empty.

The kids they think are doing it use to live near here. So far, they're not bothering my car. But these are Jr. High kids if it's who they are pretty sure it is.

At least they're trying to catch them...

And things are getting more noticable.

Angie


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

I almost thought to mention that people need locking gas caps, figured everyone had them these days.

Anyone can get a cheap plastic syphon kit and have you drained and broke in moments during the night.

Aside from frustration this whole decline of civil order so slowly like a cancer eroding away is well....tragic. We are capable of so much more. *shakes head in shame*


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## RebootMyself (Jan 11, 2008)

The foraging thing bugs me, too. I discovered, about 4 years ago now, two asian ladies out in my field (from my porch, they looked like those cutouts of someone bent over in the garden). I was curious and walked out and talked with them--they were picking fiddlehead fern stems (late spring when they're shoots, I guess). They took a couple of handfuls and were amiable and I didn't give them any trouble. Last year, I spotted them when they were leaving, with a new helper and 3 or 4 shopping bags full of fern heads. I figure they must have a market for them--no way one person could use that much fern (I think they told me they use it for soup). Next I see them, I'm planning to let them know that they're welcome to all they want at $10/bag. I was annoyed the first time but they were two nice older ladies and not taking anything to speak of so I didn't really feel like hassling them. Now I feel like they're stretching my initial grace to a level beyond.

The odd thing is that if they had just asked me first, I probably would have told them to take all they want for free--I don't use them and would wind up mowing them down anyway. Just annoys me that the common courtesy of 'ask first' is ignored.


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## RebootMyself (Jan 11, 2008)

Chuck said:


> a friend of mine said the other day a mustang pulled up in front of his house and a girl got out and ran over to their carport, where he had just been about to fill up the lawn mower. she grabbed the gas can and split before he could get outside.
> 
> Man. Makes me glad for the good fields of fire I have from all the upstairs windows.


I had a friend who had a problem with gas cans being stolen from his truck. He decided to mix some other less-engine-friendly items into the gas and leave them in the truck as normal. Whoever had been stealing them stopped...

A drive-by gas theft is scary, though. Seems like desperation to me...why take that risk (since the car probably had plates) for ~$20?


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Glad we've decided to fence in. We aren't exactly 'visible', and the only people who know we garden are those we've told about it. 

The worst our garden has gotten is doused with the neighbor's mosquito fog. That was today. Thankfully, the new privacy fence section that's up saved the chickens from getting doused as well.

Maybe we'll extend that fence across the whole back yard this year instead of waiting till next for the rest.

<contemplating>

Besides, too many feral dogs and other critters running loose around here. Glad they're still the four-legged kind and not the two.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

JGex said:


> "Gleaning" & the urban foraging I'm referring to is two different animals to me.
> 
> There are organized groups that have "nocturnal fruit foraging" to locate and pick "public fruit" which is what they consider any thing hanging over public space, i.e., if your tree in your fenced yard hangs over the sidewalk, they are of the opinion it is there for the taking.
> 
> If you saw someone right outside of your fence at night with a fruit picker taking as much fruit as they consider "public" off of your trees, would you be OK with that?


What really gets me is I pay for that little patch of ground under the whole road too. So if they see stuff next to the road, Even in the ditch. It's mine. I've seen people stop and "try" to pick stuff. I run them right off. Heck I run them off if they stop in the road on my section. When I say run off.... I go stand there right by them and watch. Kinda freaks most people out to see a hairy 6' 240 pound "mountain man" looking at them with disgust. But the whole key to it is not looking at them in the eye or saying a word. Think "children of the corn".


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

stanb999 said:


> What really gets me is I pay for that little patch of ground under the whole road too. So if they see stuff next to the road, Even in the ditch. It's mine. I've seen people stop and "try" to pick stuff. I run them right off. Heck I run them off if they stop in the road on my section. When I say run off.... I go stand there right by them and watch. Kinda freaks most people out to see a hairy 6' 240 pound "mountain man" looking at them with disgust. But the whole key to it is not looking at them in the eye or saying a word. Think "children of the corn".



That burns me up too. DH Gramps owns 3/4 of a mile of easement that is a gravel road through the center of the family farm.

Even though there is a right of way (or whatever you call it) the ground is still ours. 

Like I said before, drives me insane when someone stops 50 feet from my front door to pick "wild" asparagus in the road ditch. Strange how it doesn't grow further up the road...............:flame:

One year the whole family watched a lady stop and dig up a sunflower from a field of them and drive off like the dickens only a short distance away. She had the nerve to do it in daylight and in front of the owners with no shame. Yeah, like a field of sunflowers in farm country is natural..........


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## MoGrrrl (Jan 19, 2007)

hintonlady said:


> Yeah, like a field of sunflowers in farm country is natural..........


Nor in the city! We had some on the side of our house, and these two women pulled their car up and started pulling up our 6 foot sunflowers. Luckily we were in the kitchen and heard them. DH went to yell at them and one of the women rush back to her car so fast, I think she hurt something. I hope she did.

We've since moved the sunflowers into the backyard, and DH added some prickly looking plants to the wildflower patch.


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

> I almost thought to mention that people need locking gas caps, figured everyone had them these days.


Locking caps no longer work. The thieves now punch a hole in the gas tank, under the vehicle, and let the gas drain out on its own. The vehicle owner then has to get the hole repaired.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

uyk7 said:


> Locking caps no longer work. The thieves now punch a hole in the gas tank, under the vehicle, and let the gas drain out on its own. The vehicle owner then has to get the hole repaired.


Speechless..........:doh:


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Saw a report on CNN this morning while flipping channels to catch the weather report (priorities, you know;-)) that people in the cities are planting gardens to eat healthier, since fruit and vegies costs $18 per 1000 calories vs $1.50 per 1000 kcal for junk food. Couldn't help but think of this thread when looking at those beautiful veggie gardens in the city, wondering how long they'd last and who would be filling up on them.

Seed companies also reporting sales up 40% this year.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

uyk7 said:


> Locking caps no longer work. The thieves now punch a hole in the gas tank, under the vehicle, and let the gas drain out on its own. The vehicle owner then has to get the hole repaired.



now that's just lazy. they should be splicing into the gas line and installing a t valve.  (kidding)


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

Seems like this is just the beginning of what many of us have been concerned about. My backyard has only a 4' chain link fence so anything back there can be seen by anyone who looks. I have neighbors who wouldn't think twice about breaking in and stealing from me, much less picking vegetables that were just "laying around". Fortunately, my DD has a big back yard with a tall privacy fence in a better neighborhood. That's where we have our garden. BTW, even she keeps a padlock on her front and back gates. Her neighbors don't think anything of it because they know it's to keep kids from going back there and playing without permission since she has a trampoline. Wouldn't want a kid to get hurt because nobody knew they were back there.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

A friend of mine has a handgun. She was discouraged by local (NC or FL at the time) police from using a gun for self-defense. They were amazed at how well she could shoot when she took manditory class. She told police that if she couldn't convince a jury that she'd used the gun in self-defense she deserved to be found guilty! I mentioned to her that she now (age 65) could use the little ole lady defense i.e. as a little ole lady it should be easy to convince a jury that you were in fear for your life if anyone breaks into your home. Don't know how that would work with peach trees. I'm thinking buckshot might be a better choice.


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## NEOhioSmiths (Sep 28, 2007)

"They have 3 boys 18, 20, 21, who all live at home with no jobs"

Huh? Three boys of 18, 20, and 21 could be a serious workforce! It's too bad they are not motivated and interested in homesteading-type activities.


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## hiswife (May 30, 2008)

Aintlifegrand said:


> everyone knows I have chickens/garden etc.. and they ask all the time if I can bring them some eggs or veggies/fruit...it really gets under my skin...I charge for everything...not a lot..but something to at least offset the feed/plant cost and work


I only give eggs/veg to people who bring me their old/unwanted bread/veg/fruit etc to feed the chickens and bones/meat for the dogs! Maybe implementing a trade system will help you offset your feed bill?


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

NEOhioSmiths said:


> "They have 3 boys 18, 20, 21, who all live at home with no jobs"
> 
> Huh? Three boys of 18, 20, and 21 could be a serious workforce! It's too bad they are not motivated and interested in homesteading-type activities.


It really is too bad... The boys spend their time building paint ball forts in the woods and playing video games. And they're country folk... Appalachian and rural with land to build a garden. They wanted my FIL to drive all the way up there to plow them a plot, but he had to tell them he couldn't do it unless they paid for his gas because it's a long way up there to tow a tractor.

Suffice to say that one of the boys worked for my FIL at the slaughterhouse for about a week and quit because of the work and he didn't like getting his hands dirty. The father is a "preacher" and thinks the good Lord will provide. 

They homeschool the little girl, but she spent so much time here this last year I highly question exactly what she is learning, which is a shame because she seems smart. Smart enough to know she could manipulate my inlaws into taking her over to the fast food restaurants 3 times a day instead of eating what they eat. She also was drinking cases of Cokes while she was here. Her parents didn't give my inlaws a red cent to babysit or feed her of course. Inlaws are on a fixed income and can't afford it, so DH told his Dad not to do it any more and see what happened. As soon as she figured out she wasn't going to get 3 trips a day to the fast food, she quit coming.

I'm all for sharing and helping the needy & elderly & people dealing with disasters like what's happening right now in the Mid West, but I'm not about to freely give to people who can't get their own you-know-what together when there is no physical reason they can't do the same thing we're doing. In the very least those bioys ought to have jobs doing SOMEthing.

:shrug:


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## diane (May 4, 2002)

Sometimes it is just too hard to figure people out. I am in my 60's, chronic back pain, bad hips, and generally just used up from years of pounding the floors as a nurse and throwing bales of hay at home. YET, I manage to do a decent sized garden and can enough for the winter. On the other hand I have people in town who will ask me if I would mind bringing them some eggs, rhubarb or whatever and never offer to pay or even come and pick it themselves. I have reached the point where I just don't talk about my garden except on the forum. My gate is shut and my garden is for the most part out of sight of the road. If I even go for a walk out back I lock the gate and I lock it at night because there has been thieves lately in the neighborhood taking gas and anything metal. Maybe I am just becoming a crockety old woman, but it is really grinding me!!!!! I am ready to have my hunting rifle beside me as I sit on the deck and start really acting rather crazy except then I might attract attention of the government and get locked up.:icecream:


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

RebootMyself said:


> I had a friend who had a problem with gas cans being stolen from his truck. He decided to mix some other less-engine-friendly items into the gas and leave them in the truck as normal. Whoever had been stealing them stopped...
> 
> A drive-by gas theft is scary, though. Seems like desperation to me...why take that risk (since the car probably had plates) for ~$20?


Really curious....:cute:...what combination of chemicals (what formula) did he use?


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Doncha' just love neighbors.

A good neighbor is a rare treasure. And even (imho) a good neighbor should be far enough away a rifle bullet won't reach em....

Having 'poor people' next door...Never a good idea... and a very good reason to buy up as much land as possible, or be surrounded by public land...


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

texican said:


> Doncha' just love neighbors.
> 
> A good neighbor is a rare treasure. And even (imho) a good neighbor should be far enough away a rifle bullet won't reach em....
> 
> Having 'poor people' next door...Never a good idea... and a very good reason to buy up as much land as possible, or be surrounded by public land...


I'd love to be in the boonies, but as they say, "bloom where you're planted." I don't have a choice at the moment about location, so we're looking at a really big privacy fence as the first part of our solution.

We do have really good neighbors on 2 sides, a church on another but we have a subdivision on the other side of the church and it looks like the wooded area across the street is about to be developed. We go to the council meeting on Monday to find out just what they're planning.

FIL is planning on pulling his little camper down by the road when the corn starts to get ready to pull to sleep there. Right now you can see the corn field pretty well from the road and we're expecting "issues."


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

JGex - that's a darn shame that your FIL has to camp out to guard the corn. 

Anyone else feeling like - hey, I know we've talked of all these things, but it takes some thinking on to get your brain to accept all that is happening these days?

Angie


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

"Anyone else feeling like - hey, I know we've talked of all these things, but it takes some thinking on to get your brain to accept all that is happening these days?
Angie "

Speaking for myself, I _can _fully accept all that is happening these days, locally, here where we live; nationally; and even globally (I will go even one step further and drift from the topic a bit and say even _biblically_.) The proof is right in front of our eyes every day. All one has to do is read the local news rag thrown for free every Wednesday morning, or read the on-line news sites, or listen to the national/global news to hear stories the likes of which are often horrifying. For instance, just read on an Australian news site of a woman in the old Czech republic I think it was, member of some cult, who skinned her child and fed his flesh to family members. Nightmarish, horrifying, unthinkable to a sane person, and yet, there it is! Insanity on parade every day, people doing things that in our parents and grandparents day were unheard of. On a lesser scale, there is cruelty of lesser sorts; people lying, falsely accusing others, neglecting their children. And of course housebreaking and stealing property that is not theirs to take, and they often do it with impunity. 

Ja, I can accept what is happening these days. What boggles_ my _mind is the folks who _can't _accept it, who act like everything is just peachy and who can't be bothered to look outside their own lives. I wonder why? Are they afraid? If so, what are they afraid of? The truth?


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

RoseGarden said:


> "Anyone else feeling like - hey, I know we've talked of all these things, but it takes some thinking on to get your brain to accept all that is happening these days?
> Angie "
> 
> Speaking for myself, I _can _fully accept all that is happening these days, locally, here where we live; nationally; and even globally (I will go even one step further and drift from the topic a bit and say even _biblically_.) The proof is right in front of our eyes every day. All one has to do is read the local news rag thrown for free every Wednesday morning, or read the on-line news sites, or listen to the national/global news to hear stories the likes of which are often horrifying. For instance, just read on an Australian news site of a woman in the old Czech republic I think it was, member of some cult, who skinned her child and fed his flesh to family members. Nightmarish, horrifying, unthinkable to a sane person, and yet, there it is! Insanity on parade every day, people doing things that in our parents and grandparents day were unheard of. On a lesser scale, there is cruelty of lesser sorts; people lying, falsely accusing others, neglecting their children. And of course housebreaking and stealing property that is not theirs to take, and they often do it with impunity.
> ...


RoseGarden, I don't want to minimize your observations, but I just have to say that I feel you are wrong that these sort of things didn't happen in the past.

Humans have always been a horribly cruel and ruthless lot, it's simply that we have a better system of reporting those cruel abuses now. With the population being so much more concentrated due to density, it's harder to hide these atrocities from the public.

If you really take a good look at history and study how people died, you would understand that completely unthinkable murders, cannibalism, perversions and all other sorts of acts unthinkable have occurred in the past. People neglected their children, they lied, they stole, they falsely accused others and anything else you can try to make into some biblical phenomenom. In fact, the Bible is full of all of this sort of stuff.

It's not prophetic nor biblical; it's simply human nature.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

AngieM2 said:


> JGex - that's a darn shame that your FIL has to camp out to guard the corn.


Well, DH is going to take the watch.... last thing we need is the FIL getting shot or shooting at something he can't see. 
And it is a shame, but it seems we've had some uh, unsavory elements move in close enough that they are going to make having a garden here a challenge.

Our big garden is in the back where it cannot be seen from the road, so that's not an issue. There's another garden even further back, so even if the corn is stolen out front, we'll have more coming in later that no one knows about.

This whole scenario is just begging for a fence. We had to take down the fence in front when we had the pine trees mulched out this Spring, and are just waiting until we can pull in enough $$ to get someone out to put up a big ol' privacy fence across the front.



> Anyone else feeling like - hey, I know we've talked of all these things, but it takes some thinking on to get your brain to accept all that is happening these days?
> 
> Angie


I see what's happening right now as being part self-fulfilling prophecy and part natural progression of an Empire in decline. I don't want to get too reactionary or put too much emphasis on impending TEOTWAWKI, so we're just trying to take it all in stride and make plans to prevent loss on our part when we see the opportunity.

Doris Day sang it best:

Que sera, sera
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours to see
Que sera, sera
What will be, will be 

And then there's the Eric Hoffer quote below.....


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## Trixters_muse (Jan 29, 2008)

Earlier in this thread I wrote about the stealing of my tomatoes now my squash is gone!

At least they left the plants this time, but I was enjoying my morning coffee and walking the garden when I noticed that all the lovely yellow squash I had planned to pick today and freeze is gone! They uprooted several of my dill plants too and it looks like some basil has been taken as well.

GGRRR......!!!

My BIL offered to install a camera, I'm gonna catch those thieves, you watch!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

RoseGarden and JGex - I know that there has always been an element of people behaving extremely cruel, a bit cruel, mean or just nasty to others throughout time, and that our electronic instant news age makes it more noticeable.

But what I was talking about in my previous comment was the more incidents of food taking, gas taking and all the grasshopper methods of providing rather than the ant methods of providing.

Heck - I've been aware and seeing these conversations talking about how it will be post Y2K, and fortunately that was not much due to a lot of work by lots of people. BUT, this time - it is happening, and since it's happening around me (and around you by the reports here), I cannot just say it's better news coverage - it's coming home to my neighborhood and yours. That's what is rather WOW!. 

I've always figured on this sorta thing happening, but believed in the possibility I'd be wrong and just have a different cash flow or have to go to the store less, or be extra ready for all the general stuff that can happen in life that in a major inconvience.

Just really weird to see all the conversations coming to happen, more and more.

Angie


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Trixters_muse said:


> Earlier in this thread I wrote about the stealing of my tomatoes now my squash is gone!
> 
> At least they left the plants this time, but I was enjoying my morning coffee and walking the garden when I noticed that all the lovely yellow squash I had planned to pick today and freeze is gone! They uprooted several of my dill plants too and it looks like some basil has been taken as well.
> 
> ...


So sorry to hear of more of your produce being appropriated by unauthorized grasshoppers!

HOpe you can find a protective solution that works for you and does hurt the cash flow too much.

Angie


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

> Having 'poor people' next door...Never a good idea...


Yep, you just can't trust poor people! Of course, at what point is someone considered poor? Guess the PTB should round up all the poor people and ship them off somewhere so they can't cause any trouble! Only the rich people have a right to live.

Of course, some of the biggest crooks in this country are rich. Many of them even work in DC.


.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Trixters_muse said:


> Earlier in this thread I wrote about the stealing of my tomatoes now my squash is gone!
> 
> At least they left the plants this time, but I was enjoying my morning coffee and walking the garden when I noticed that all the lovely yellow squash I had planned to pick today and freeze is gone! They uprooted several of my dill plants too and it looks like some basil has been taken as well.
> 
> ...




Dang, Tm, I was going to say something ealier about your plants getting gone, but I got sidetracked. 

Someone is full on watching your garden. Probably someone who lives close by. I would def consider cameras of some sort.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

AngieM2 said:


> RoseGarden and JGex - I know that there has always been an element of people behaving extremely cruel, a bit cruel, mean or just nasty to others throughout time, and that our electronic instant news age makes it more noticeable.
> 
> But what I was talking about in my previous comment was the more incidents of food taking, gas taking and all the grasshopper methods of providing rather than the ant methods of providing.
> 
> ...


Yup, Angie, it *is* weird watching things "quicken," to borrow a term from Art Bell.

I've been reading message boards like this one off and on since before Y2K, too, and there has definitely been an increase beyond just what used to seem like an isolated incident. 

I think the media does play a big part in it.... there have been studies that show a steady diet of negative news and negative influences & emotions have been shown to have effects such as lowered immunity in test subjects. Studies have also shown what most of us know already; that news programs focus on the negative. 

All of that combined with the economy, peoples' personal financial situations and a prevalent air of helplessness and insecurity will just lead to more of this happening more often in places it never has happened before.

It's kinda like the reactions after a natural disasters... most people rise to the occasion (ants), others take advantage of opportunity when they see it (grasshoppers). Somewhere down the line, the two of those are gonna clash.... big time. I agree that it seems to be headed that way fairly quickly right now, but the gradual build-up makes it less noticeable for those who aren't paying as much attention as people who do read these forums.

I've never really understood the mentality behind "taking" what one needs instead of learning how to do it yourself... dunno if it's laziness (like the family members I mentioned earlier) or a lack of self motivation or just plain ignorance combined with a lack of scruples in some cases. And of course, there are those with a sense of entitlement. Those of us who have taken the effort to be a little self sufficient tend to acquire a sense of resentment for all of the above.

The old Chinese curse that says, "May you live in interesting times" kinda covers it all in a nutshell.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

JGex said:


> Someone is full on watching your garden. Probably someone who lives close by. I would def consider cameras of some sort.


 Yeah, just hide the camera's or have them locked up good or they'll be missing too


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

JGex said:


> I think the media does play a big part in it.... there have been studies that show a steady diet of negative news and negative influences & emotions have been shown to have effects such as lowered immunity in test subjects. Studies have also shown what most of us know already; that news programs focus on the negative.
> 
> *It's just like Martian movies in the 50's or anything with a "to be continued" cliffhanger. People flock to excitement and danger, it makes money.*
> 
> ...


Not sure if that is a curse though. I like excitement and challenge. What better way to test ones true grit than by having to face adversity in trying times? I've had enough of the sedentiary, televised, consumerized world I was born into, what better way to shine than to survive it's decline? 

Full throttle to the end baby!! Watching the SHTF is sure a lot better than rotting away in a nursing home, no?


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

I will beg to differ on a point or two.... Yes, humans have always been inhumane to eachother, no arguing that. But as widespread as it is now? No, I think not. Having spoken to relatives who are in their 80's and 90's (one lady was 98 when she passed away) and they all say yes, there was theft and cruelty and murder and rape...but not to the extent we see it today. They lived during the past, so I take heed of what they have to say. In their day, to hear of a housebreaking or someone being beaten up was uncommon, and to hear of horrific murders locally was practically unheard of. 

As for events being biblical...well, that's a matter of personal opinion.:angel:


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

JGex said:


> FIL is planning on pulling his little camper down by the road when the corn starts to get ready to pull to sleep there. Right now you can see the corn field pretty well from the road and we're expecting "issues."


I'd probably print up a half dozen signs on the printer, and laminate them, and put them at appropriate places, where folks could see them... with something like

REWARD: 
Someone opened the door to my Rattlesnake cage... If you see Bitey or Snaggums, please contact owner. Please be careful, they haven't eaten this week... 

of course, have a nice large pic of an old rattler.


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## Sabre3of4 (May 13, 2008)

When we move, I am pretty sure the lady next door is going to assume because we will be bad neighbors to worry about because we would be considered to be 'poor' just because she has a slightly nicer house....
There are a lot worse people in that neighborhood to worry about than us....

Sabrina






texican said:


> Doncha' just love neighbors.
> 
> A good neighbor is a rare treasure. And even (imho) a good neighbor should be far enough away a rifle bullet won't reach em....
> 
> Having 'poor people' next door...Never a good idea... and a very good reason to buy up as much land as possible, or be surrounded by public land...


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

poor? or financially challenged? or  Lazy? or Grasshopper? or entitlement mentality. I think a couple or so of those are the ones that help themselves to your work and goods, but poor - that's such a relative term. You can have no material goods and be rich or poor, or you can live in a mansion and be poor or rich - it's all in how you address the situation.

There are those that are not inclinded to work that look financially lacking, that might be whom you are expecting to help themselves to your stuff and turn out to be the ones that guard it because they know how hard it is to acquire; or the same with rich being 'robber barons" that acquire things thru obvious or sneak methods.

So, that's the way I think on this issue of "poor" or "rich" and the relativeness to others acquiring what you or anyone has worked for.

Angie


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## Chuck (Oct 27, 2003)

I just came home from a trip to Haiti - let me tell you, it's hard to understand what a special thing we have in this country, in that our culture is based on decency to your fellow man. In Haiti, that's a foreign concept - and as a result you see all sorts of almost unspeakable misery, cruelty, and ignorance. 

But without a solid moral foundation, this country's bound to go that way.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

hintonlady said:


> Not sure if that is a curse though. I like excitement and challenge. What better way to test ones true grit than by having to face adversity in trying times? I've had enough of the sedentiary, televised, consumerized world I was born into, what better way to shine than to survive it's decline?
> 
> Full throttle to the end baby!! Watching the SHTF is sure a lot better than rotting away in a nursing home, no?


Yeah, I do perversely enjoy the challenges of testing myself on different levels. That's a pretty lucid way of approaching, too, I think.

Full steam ahead!


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

texican said:


> I'd probably print up a half dozen signs on the printer, and laminate them, and put them at appropriate places, where folks could see them... with something like
> 
> REWARD:
> Someone opened the door to my Rattlesnake cage... If you see Bitey or Snaggums, please contact owner. Please be careful, they haven't eaten this week...
> ...


lol, I'm going to pass that on the the FIL just to see what he does. If he prints fliers, I'll scan it and post it.


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## booklover (Jan 22, 2007)

RoseGarden said:


> I will beg to differ on a point or two.... Yes, humans have always been inhumane to eachother, no arguing that. But as widespread as it is now? No, I think not. Having spoken to relatives who are in their 80's and 90's (one lady was 98 when she passed away) and they all say yes, there was theft and cruelty and murder and rape...but not to the extent we see it today. They lived during the past, so I take heed of what they have to say. In their day, to hear of a housebreaking or someone being beaten up was uncommon, and to hear of horrific murders locally was practically unheard of.
> 
> As for events being biblical...well, that's a matter of personal opinion.:angel:


It's more widespread because there are more people, better means to track down the crime, and the media there to help us all watch it. Statistically, murder is down from the Middle Ages and Biblical times. Justice is more fair, however (you no longer get hanged for stealing your neighbor's crops!) and people use scientific fact rather than things like "word of mouth" to execute people. Crimes against humans used to actually be CONDONED. Break-ins, murders, torture were all very, very commonplace. Crimes against individuals are fewer per capita than any other time in history (unless of course you include war, at which we've become pretty efficient murdering machines).


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

Here's a good one, our town supervisor was caught stealing sweet corn a couple years ago. She was stealing from a guy that grows hundreds of acres and he charged her ten dollars an ear for every ear she had.
he said it was just change compared to how much corn was actually stolden during the summer, one person was stealing a pick up load every couple days and selling it right on main street, but it couldn't be proved where he got it.


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## Trixters_muse (Jan 29, 2008)

Got a camera installed yesterday and took some other measures to protect my property. Luckily I have a relative and a friend who are good at that techno stuff and even had spare parts so it cost me $6 for beer and some grilled hamburgers. 

If they try to get over the fence this time they will have a couple of surpises not to mention they will be caught on camera.

I can't believe I'm having to do this over a very small veggie garden! It's not like I'm growing acres here. What in the world will it come down to when things get REAL bad?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I'm glad you were able to get the surprises and camera set up for just the cost of the beers and burgers.

I know I'll be very interested to see what happens next. Please keep us updated on this.

Angie


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Easy way to solve after cameras catch them (calling police will amount to lots of waiting and minimal results)......

Print photos of the thieves and 

1. Place them on the perimeter of your proerty, make sure to draw red magic marker targets on them

2. Post them around your area with "Lost veggies, reward offered"

LOL

That should do the trick.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

booklover said:


> It's more widespread because there are more people, better means to track down the crime, and the media there to help us all watch it. Statistically, murder is down from the Middle Ages and Biblical times. Justice is more fair, however (you no longer get hanged for stealing your neighbor's crops!) and people use scientific fact rather than things like "word of mouth" to execute people. Crimes against humans used to actually be CONDONED. Break-ins, murders, torture were all very, very commonplace. Crimes against individuals are fewer per capita than any other time in history (unless of course you include war, at which we've become pretty efficient murdering machines).


Exactly. Violent crime in the Middle Ages was all the rage... with the Church & ruling class condoning the wholesale slaughter of anyone based on any hearsay. Many people met early, violent and unspeakable deaths for several centuries during this time. I've been in a couple of torture museums in Europe... it ain't purty.

Still, I suppose it's hard to believe that we live in lesser violent time period than others because of the media and the never-ending bombardment of negative news.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Trixters_muse said:


> Got a camera installed yesterday and took some other measures to protect my property. Luckily I have a relative and a friend who are good at that techno stuff and even had spare parts so it cost me $6 for beer and some grilled hamburgers.
> 
> If they try to get over the fence this time they will have a couple of surpises not to mention they will be caught on camera.
> 
> I can't believe I'm having to do this over a very small veggie garden! It's not like I'm growing acres here. What in the world will it come down to when things get REAL bad?


Yay! Yes, please do keep us posted on this. But, be careful if you find yourself in any sort of confrontation.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

hintonlady said:


> Easy way to solve after cameras catch them (calling police will amount to lots of waiting and minimal results)......
> 
> Print photos of the thieves and
> 
> ...


lol, it's a good thing you and I don't live near each other. We'd be dangerous if left to our own resources!


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

I moved to the boon docks to stay OUT of trouble. 

The pay is much too low when being a menace to society. I'm retired to the pranks division now.


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## RebootMyself (Jan 11, 2008)

Chuck-prime said:


> Really curious....:cute:...what combination of chemicals (what formula) did he use?


All I know was that he said that the mix would barely run the engine and would eat any rubber parts. The gift that keeps on giving.


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## WayneR (Mar 26, 2007)

Sugar/Ethanol-- Revenge CAN be sweet. Use caution however, with miscreants of this ilk. If you can be identified as the cause, your house may "accidentally" burn some night.

The potential outcome is not worth a few gallons of gas. Yet.


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

Chuck said:


> ..... it's hard to understand what a special thing we have in this country, in that our culture is based on decency to your fellow man ..... But without a solid moral foundation, this country's bound to go that way.


Chuck, I'll be 58 in a few weeks and the difference I see in our country since my childhood is incomprehensible. Our world is now in shades of gray. When I was a kid, things were still in black and white and you knew, without equivocation, what was right and what was wrong. 

In the 60s and 70s, we - my generation - didn't stand and fight for that world of decency. We wanted disco instead. So, today, our kids don't even know what this country once was.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Calico Katie said:


> Chuck, I'll be 58 in a few weeks and the difference I see in our country since my childhood is incomprehensible. Our world is now in shades of gray. When I was a kid, things were still in black and white and you knew, without equivocation, what was right and what was wrong.
> 
> In the 60s and 70s, we - my generation - didn't stand and fight for that world of decency. We wanted disco instead. So, today, our kids don't even know what this country once was.



Amen!


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

WayneR said:


> Sugar/Ethanol-- Revenge CAN be sweet. Use caution however, with miscreants of this ilk. If you can be identified as the cause, your house may "accidentally" burn some night.
> 
> The potential outcome is not worth a few gallons of gas. Yet.


Just so you know.....

http://www.snopes.com/autos/grace/sugar.asp




> Legend: Putting sugar in the gas tank will ruin a vehicle's engine.
> 
> Status: False.
> 
> ...


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Wow! You sure learn a lot of weird and useful things here. I always thought sugar would ruin a car engine.

I absolutely cannot wait to see what Trixter's Muse's camera picks up. It's bound to be someone nearby. I wonder what I'd do in such a situation?


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

Let me know how well your car runs after putting a cup (or two) of sugar in the gas tank. I would thing that, at the least, the fuel line would get clogged. I noticed that the scientist did not verify his findings in the lab by trying it in his vehicle.


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

Interesting thread!

Well, if we had a freezer, we'd put a lock directly on that as well as keeping it behind a fenced area with dogs. 

Guinea hens, if you can abide their noise, make excellent security systems and they are much harder to shoot or poison than dogs.

A decade or so ago, I lived in a remote neighborhood which had a lot of break-in crime. We started a Neighborhood Watch program and eventually we were able to put an armed pickup truck in someone's driveway within five minutes of a call for help on the CB. Thefts went down to zero in that neighborhood.


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## Lorax_Of_Gilead (Mar 12, 2007)

Would planting an edible hedge around your garden be cheap insurance? Train it on 3 strands of wire with a few sturdy gates. Plants like gooseberry, silverthorn, rugosa, osage orange, hawthorn, firethorn, etc. Prickly pears, zucchini, cucumbers, stinging nettles, thistles(for donkeys?), crown of thorns, catclaw acacia, mesquite, etc. probably couldn't hurt either.


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## CowgirlGloria (Jun 19, 2008)

Yes, humans have always been thus. Even in The Good Old Days.

During the Great Depression, my grandpa, dad, and uncles had to camp out in the pecan grove before harvest, to protect the crop. They had to be fully armed. Why? Because the would-be thieves that came in the middle of the night to steal the crop came armed themselves! No one ever died, but there were some surprised thieves hearing a shotgun ominously racking behind them in the dark.

It has always been thus. And when times get hard, people get harder. It isn't just a sign of our times, it is a sign of hard times throughout the ages.

I know folks will ignore that piece of history. It is more fun to bemoan our times and look back on the Golden Days of Yore with longing for a safer time. Problem is, that safer time never really existed, except in our imaginations, and maybe movies.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

CowgirlGloria said:


> I know folks will ignore that piece of history. It is more fun to bemoan our times and look back on the Golden Days of Yore with longing for a safer time. Problem is, that safer time never really existed, except in our imaginations, and maybe movies.


I've been meaning to ask about this for some time, but I have been hesitant because of the backlash it might create. Thank you for answering the question without me having to ask it.

Everyone says that during the Depression everyone just wanted to help each other out and no one would have taken advantage of others. I have a hard time believing it. I met relatives that lived through the Depression, and given the chance, they may or may not have cheated someone. And they weren't all nice people.

Kayleigh


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

******* said:


> I've been meaning to ask about this for some time, but I have been hesitant because of the backlash it might create. Thank you for answering the question without me having to ask it.
> 
> Everyone says that during the Depression everyone just wanted to help each other out and no one would have taken advantage of others. I have a hard time believing it. I met relatives that lived through the Depression, and given the chance, they may or may not have cheated someone. And they weren't all nice people.
> 
> Kayleigh


My dad's uncles had to stand watch outside over their harvest of melons to make sure they had some to take to market the next day. I still scratch my head wondering how many people had cars back then, and could sneak off with a wagon or truck load of melons. But I guess if there's a will, there's a way.


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## Cindy in NY (May 10, 2002)

******* said:


> I've been meaning to ask about this for some time, but I have been hesitant because of the backlash it might create. Thank you for answering the question without me having to ask it.
> 
> Everyone says that during the Depression everyone just wanted to help each other out and no one would have taken advantage of others. I have a hard time believing it. I met relatives that lived through the Depression, and given the chance, they may or may not have cheated someone. And they weren't all nice people.
> 
> Kayleigh



My Grandaddy ran a chicken farm. He said that sometimes folks would sneak down and steal a chicken but he didn't worry about it too much because he knew they were hungry.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Cindy in NY said:


> My Grandaddy ran a chicken farm. He said that sometimes folks would sneak down and steal a chicken but he didn't worry about it too much because he knew they were hungry.


If I let everyone who was hungry steal a chicken then I'd be hungry myself.

I'm a big believer in Christian charity, but that doesn't mean allowing people to steal the fruits of my labors.

Nobody has shown up to bother our stuff. I think this is primarily because we're in an isolated rural area on a dead-end road. Additionally, I'm almost always outside working, from dawn to dusk (minus forum breaks). I can hear every car coming, and Samwise the watch dog barks if he sees anyone at all. Food will need to get pretty dear before people are going to bother with us, I believe.


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## CowgirlGloria (Jun 19, 2008)

Grandma would give hobos food if they asked for it. It was a matter of Christian charity. If she had extra, she would share it willingly. But thieves are a different matter. There are hungry people who ask for help, one meal, and if you have it to spare, sharing is a decent thing to do. There are people who try to steal an entire crop, or even one chicken, not knowing or caring if you can spare it. Big difference.


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## WayneR (Mar 26, 2007)

GRex,
Thank you for your kind response. Snopes is an interesting site.

Have seen a vehicle which was reportedly stopped by using sugar in the gas tank. In the above snopes post it would be interesting if Mr. Thornton would conduct a "real world" test. Several motor vehicles with some mileage using fuel obtained from an assortment of gas stations.

The moisture (water) content in the gasolene from transport in the pipeline, tanker truck, the storage tank at the station and last but not least, the car fuel tank, which is usually only a quarter to half full. Everyone has "water in the gas" stories. Did Mr Thornton consider this in his "experiment" ?

There is always water in the gas, however small a percentage. Sugar would disolve in that percentage and be introduced into the engine. It could also block the fuel filters, as previously described.


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## connie in nm (May 11, 2002)

My backyard is total shade due to a large tree. I have a small garden strip along my driveway. Several years ago I had a garage sale and people would go and pick things from garden as they left. I could not believe the nerve of them. I will wait to see if food disappears this year.

My grape vines are in alley against fence. They have also been picked when ripe. I may put up netting this year to make it more difficult.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

Trixters Muse,

Any update on the camera? Just curious as to your set up. Did you set it up to auto record, motion record or snapshot over time intervals or what? Are you actually recording?

Also, update from a search on law. For when, (not if!), you catch these folks red-handed, you might be able to get it bumped up to a felony nowadays. To figure the value of the theft, you can figure in either A) the cost of labor averaged to the cost of the same labor locally or B) the minimum wage and combine that with the cost of the object, such as organic squash, under normal market conditions and finally, add the difference you are expected to pay by not having the produce (such as buying organic squash at whole foods in december!). 

Apparently, the value burden is on you or the ADA convering it, but it is no longer considered petty theft in most places.

Hope you hammer them good! Let us know...I, for one, am waiting on tenterhooks here!


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

CowgirlGloria said:


> Grandma would give hobos food if they asked for it. It was a matter of Christian charity. If she had extra, she would share it willingly. But thieves are a different matter. There are hungry people who ask for help, one meal, and if you have it to spare, sharing is a decent thing to do. There are people who try to steal an entire crop, or even one chicken, not knowing or caring if you can spare it. Big difference.


That's how I feel too. I'd never turn someone away if I had anything to give them - food, a coat, medicine. If you'll do a little work for me, we'll both feel good about the exchange too.

But don't try stealing from me!


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

connie in nm said:


> My backyard is total shade due to a large tree. I have a small garden strip along my driveway. Several years ago I had a garage sale and people would go and pick things from garden as they left. I could not believe the nerve of them. I will wait to see if food disappears this year.
> 
> My grape vines are in alley against fence. They have also been picked when ripe. I may put up netting this year to make it more difficult.



I would have very politely stopped them with an "excuse me mam/sir, you forgot to pay for the produce. THAT will be an extra $5 since I hadn't planned on selling it or giving it away."

Then I would curse up a storm behind closed doors. 


edited to add: after the first person I would have put up a sign, veggies NOT for sale. Thanks.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

CowgirlGloria said:


> Grandma would give hobos food if they asked for it. It was a matter of Christian charity. If she had extra, she would share it willingly. But thieves are a different matter. There are hungry people who ask for help, one meal, and if you have it to spare, sharing is a decent thing to do. There are people who try to steal an entire crop, or even one chicken, not knowing or caring if you can spare it. Big difference.


Agreed, it IS a big difference between having a choice or just having your whole crop stolen. The older couple who had their peaches stolen, would they have given a small basket of peaches to someone who was hungry? I dunno, but I likely would have.


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## CowgirlGloria (Jun 19, 2008)

This is not to hijack the thread, but as to garage sales, I have had my last one. It was some years ago that I had my last garage sale. We had early birds showing up before sunrise, wanting to see the stuff. I was surly at that sort of nerve, to ring our doorbell and wake us up so that they could selfishly try to get there first.

But if that wasn't bad enough, the rude behavior of these people, what really steamed me was catching people looking in the windows of the house, faces pressed to the glass, to see what else we might have that wasn't for sale. It wasn't just one person that did that, either. I ran off several people that I caught doing that, and we ended up stationing someone to protect the house, as I did not believe locking the doors and windows was sufficient. 

Once I shut that sale down, I have not been tempted to have another. That is what ebay is for. I won't risk bringing thieves to my house to make a few bucks off my old junk. I realize all salers aren't thieves, but enough are to sour me on having any more sales at my home.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

WayneR said:


> GRex,
> Thank you for your kind response. Snopes is an interesting site.
> 
> Have seen a vehicle which was reportedly stopped by using sugar in the gas tank. In the above snopes post it would be interesting if Mr. Thornton would conduct a "real world" test. Several motor vehicles with some mileage using fuel obtained from an assortment of gas stations.
> ...


I've heard about the "sugar in the gas tank" since the 70s myself. I've never known anyone who says they actually did it, though. I've always wanted to know if it would really stop an engine. 

The thing is, clogging the air filter WOULD stop the engine. But that would be an easy fix.

Would the amount of water in the gasoline really be enough to dissolve a cup or more?

Here's a couple of other links if you're interested:

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/msugargs.html

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/crime/a/sugar_gas_tank.htm

http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/2001/February/02.html

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/sugar-in-gas-tank.htm


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

CowgirlGloria said:


> This is not to hijack the thread, but as to garage sales, I have had my last one.


I had a yardsale a few years ago with the same problems - early birds, rude people, and people asking to go into my house. I had quite a bit of theft of small items, and people wanting me to "save" something for them so they could come back with money (they never came back), and people haggling over a 25 cent item. I had a very strange man come on a bicycle and snoop around and sort of menace me, and then return a few hours later when I was there alone. He didn't know it but I was armed and hoping I didn't have to shoot him. After 5 hours of this, I barely made $100.

Never again - I'll donate it, or throw it out.


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## stonecypher (May 10, 2008)

What about setting up one of those motion-sensor sprinklers with a fertilizer can attached that is filled with skunk-scent liquid (available from hunting stores, I think). I'd think two-legged thieves would only need one lesson to go elsewhere, and it might help repel four-legged critters, too. Of course, I have no idea what this tactic would do to your poor defenseless vegetables and fruit trees as far as edibility goes! :lonergr: Anyone tried this approach?


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## stonecypher (May 10, 2008)

000000000000000000


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

uyk7 said:


> Yep, you just can't trust poor people! Of course, at what point is someone considered poor? Guess the PTB should round up all the poor people and ship them off somewhere so they can't cause any trouble! Only the rich people have a right to live.
> 
> Of course, some of the biggest crooks in this country are rich. Many of them even work in DC.
> 
> ...


*edited to add* When I speak of "poor"... I mean the lazy, no good, do nothing, layabouts, who wouldn't lift a finger to help you in a crisis, but would come over to borrow a wrench, while the haybaler was laying on top of you...sorry sacks of trash, eating up good food a decent person could be using...*edit over*

Most of the poor I know are too dang lazy to wipe their own hineys. "They're" too good to do it... Uncle Sammy takes care of all their needs... if they want something, he gives it to them, or they just skip the middleman (the govt.) and take it straight from the working class.

I know many people who most people would consider poor, financially... but they're hard working people, that'd give you the shirt off of their backs, and never dream of stealing from you.

The best people I know, are technically poor. The well off and rich hereabouts aren't going to steal from you, but they won't stop what they're doing and come over and help you out in a bind, either.

The poor I speak of, will not survive the 'three day' threshold... In the post-shtf world, there are no lay about lazy welfare class. Sure, the govt. will for a while take from the prepped, to feed the slaves, but after the producers are robbed, the teat will have went dry.

My personal view is no matter what your financial status is..... if you steal, and get caught, you should have your head examined. By the worms, the buzzards, or maybe even the hogs...

How many of us will put up a couple dozen human beings that will expect meals on time, laundry done for them, somehow manage to have a/c going constantly in the summer, heat in the winter, be at their beck and call... to fatten them while your own family starves. I'm a nice person (I'd like to think) presently, but post shtf, I'll not have the luxury of being benificient, at least towards the welfare class.

On the 'right to live' scenario... Only humans who take "responsibility" for themselves have a right to live. Every single human has the right to live... to breathe free air... but if you want to eat, and breathe air tomorrow, the next day, and next week, you have to get off your lazy derriere, get up and work, and provide for yourself. Want a can of beans, work for it. Want a house, work for it. Once a person accepts something from the govt., that others must work and save for, they becomes slaves... and slaves have no rights, except what their masters give them.

If I lived next to a public housing project, I'd just take it for granted, that everything I owned would be taken, if not guarded zealously. If I lived next to a public housing project, and the shtf, I'd not have many hopes of surviving.

Sentimentality is a luxury we now can afford.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

CowgirlGloria said:


> This is not to hijack the thread, but as to garage sales, I have had my last one. It was some years ago that I had my last garage sale. We had early birds showing up before sunrise, wanting to see the stuff. I was surly at that sort of nerve, to ring our doorbell and wake us up so that they could selfishly try to get there first.
> 
> But if that wasn't bad enough, the rude behavior of these people, what really steamed me was catching people looking in the windows of the house, faces pressed to the glass, to see what else we might have that wasn't for sale. It wasn't just one person that did that, either. I ran off several people that I caught doing that, and we ended up stationing someone to protect the house, as I did not believe locking the doors and windows was sufficient.
> 
> Once I shut that sale down, I have not been tempted to have another. That is what ebay is for. I won't risk bringing thieves to my house to make a few bucks off my old junk. I realize all salers aren't thieves, but enough are to sour me on having any more sales at my home.


After the last garage sale I threw, I ended up in the house crying and punching walls swearing NEVER to go through that madness again. That's been almost 10 years ago.

Can you say eBay?


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