# Would you board with someone new to boarding?



## EscapingToronto (Jun 27, 2011)

I've always dreamed of owning a large rural property... I practically grew up on my best friend's farm until we finished high school and went off to university. 
They had horses, sheep, goats, cats, dogs, poultry, etc. so I'm familiar with the care and maintenance side of what goes on in a barn but I've never boarded, so other than just conversations with friends, not too familiar with the boarding culture. 
My friend let me know of a property they know that the owner wants to let go of at a great price and in a great location. 
It's a 15 acre property, half wooded, half cleared, the stalls and paddocks are in place, there is a 60x80 enclosed arena, all very well maintained....
So my question is... would you board your horse with someone new to all of this? I'm not looking to make a lot of money (from the budget I worked out, it would be about 3/4 of what "comparable" barns in the area would charge), this wouldn't be my main source of income unless I have a lot of fun with it and take it on full time... but for now, just testing out the waters.. 
Any input is appreciated!


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I might. It would depend on how much knowledge I perceived you to have and how close I was to the barn.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

You don't have to say you are new to running a boarding stable. And yes, even new at it, people will come.

My thoughts on reading your post, are that you have not dealt much with boarding stables, how things need to be kept so you are managing the barn and the barn setting with outside folks involved. Boarding customers can be "a whole new game" in horse folks, nice, weird, picky, nasty, demanding, trouble-makers. Gossip in the barn can make or break you. Contracts to deal with the customers, protecting both of you, need to be in place ALL the time. You can't trust a GREAT MANY horse folks, while some will be your best friends forever. 

The first thing you need to deal with, is that a boarding barn is NOT run like your home barn. You have to change your thinking into being about running the barn AS A BUSINESS and turning a profit. You can't let the barn turn into a burden, sucking money and time off of you. If you have another job, you won't be at the barn full-time, to keep an eye on stuff, control situations. Will you be hiring help? Cleaning volumes of stalls daily, will eat up your time. There are NO DAYS OFF at a boarding barn. Horses have to be fed and cleaned up after EVERY DAY of the year.

This is true with boarding a couple horses or 20 horses. You have to have everything taken care of on the place, from cleaning, feeding, watering, to smoothing the rings surfaces, cleaning the bathrooms in the barn, sweeping aisles, mowing or moving snow for parking. In your location, you will have extra winter work in the cold and problems it causes. Have you considered how much extra the electric will cost running tank heaters and heated buckets in stalls over winter? Do you have equipment to move volumes of snow on the farm clearing paths or roads to fields, get the bedding out of the barn and spread or dumped, during winter?

I hate to tell you, but there are a LOT of hidden costs you probably haven't considered, just getting ready to start up. Seasonal issues can add to those costs, hours moving snow, longer to feed and clean, empty the spreader so it doesn't freeze needed DAILY. Hauling hoses, emptying buckets, moving hay to feed. Having enough hay on hand TO even feed the boarders. Constant repairs of facilities, machinery take time as well.

There are hours and hours of work, unpaid work by YOU, to keep things going. That is going to be really hard, adding time onto your regular job hours EVERY DAY.

I know no one who doesn't charge what I consider A LOT of money, that can keep paying their bills from having boarders. There is nothing cheap or easy about running a boarder business, it eats money. A stall for $500 the month is fairly cheap, if there is an indoor arena, other amenities, safe stalls and paddocks. Names of the barns change over the years, as the people running the businesses come and go. Same barn, same facilities, but they just burn out with being "on the job" constantly. Hired help comes and goes pretty fast as well, often incompetent or lazy, not willing to "give it their all" like when you own the business. And as owner, you get to fill their slot when they quit or don't show up. It is a pretty rough life, owning a boarding barn. For sure, you will be lucky to break even on cash spent, cash income, which leave NO PROFIT for owning this kind of business. No reward for you! I know some trainers who quit their training and board businesses, even though they made beyond $100,000 a year. They spent as fast on upkeep, having reliable help living on-site, while trainer had to attend shows, as the money came in. Making and selling expensive horses, sounds great, until you try finding those nice colts to train for a year or so, getting a winning reputation, before selling. The hours and hours horse has in it, gets cost down to almost break-even, despite the big selling price. Just amazed me, that there was nothing left after expenses, of what they brought into the business. So MANY expenses to keep those big dollar horses competing, shoeing, entries, travel, trucks and trailers, hotel costs, just an endless list.

You have to remember to pay yourself. The time you put into your business is not free, needs to be counted as a cost. If you are just breaking even on cost and expenses in the money columns in figuring up things for taxes, you are not making a profit to live on and would starve! Horse business is often like that, so you sure don't want to be surprised.

Treat it like a REAL business, you are not there to subsidize folks wanting to own and ride horses. You NEED to make a decent profit, or this business will sink.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

Here is a post that just posted on a horse group I am on with Facebook. Gives the downside of boarding.

Quote
I am such an idiot. I do not want to board horses. It is not worth the extra work and overloading my small farm for the $75 or $100 extra I can profit each month. And yet, I am constantly being suckered into helping people out and taking in a horse. And I am ALWAYS screwed. There is really no recourse if someone doesn't pay. You certainly can't quit feeding their horse. And of course, if they really don't pay then you can keep their horse - but who wants another horse. Vent over.

Anyway, I am now vowing to absolutely never, ever, not ever, ever boarding another horse.


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## Farmerjonathan (Mar 11, 2013)

I greatly enjoy taking care of livestock. Would love to take care of horses, be paid for it, but would never do it on my farm. Years ago the neighboring farm came up for sale and it has a nice old barn on it, 60 acres, would have been a great riding set up. After penciling it out couldn't afford it. But would never do it at my home. My home is my refuge. I don't need screaming kids, fast cars, water left on, my stuff gone through, etc.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

As far as I understand it the real profit in boarding facilities is in lessons and training rather than the actual boarding fees. In my area between 300- 500 is not at all unusual per month and it sounds like a lot but when you work out the per hour and considering its basically an on call 24-7 job it's not a get rich quick scheme.

My self, I would not open a boarding facility without having a trainer attach themself and their services to my barn. But then again I live between HITS in Ocala and Canterbury in Newberry and the Vet college in Gainesville. People around here expect really good service with their board.

I don't know if the experience in running an actual stable mattered much to me when I had to board my horses. It was more the attitude of the place, the climate of the barn and if there were any employees, whether they were the creepy type or not.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Have you personally ever owned horses? I don't think I would board with anybody I didn't know. We boarded with our trainer for a while a couple years back. He barely covered his costs, let alone made a profit. He is a great trainer. When he calculated his salary from horse training he made way less than minimum wage while taking a toll on his body and risking significant bodily harm. 

We have 27 acres out here. The first thing our insurance guy told us was not to board any horses. The second thing he said was that we should not own more than one or two. Farm insurance, business insurance, and liability insurance costs are astronomical. Upkeep is expensive even if you only keep a horse or two. If you board you need super dooper fencing both to get boarders and to lessen liability issues. 

Fifteen acres is not a lot of land for many horses unless you live in a lush area. Horses can wreak havoc on your pastures. We like to keep about 200 small bales each year. We only feed grass hay and we don't feed during the summer. This our two boys plenty of cushion for bad winters and too hot and too dry summers. 

Can you afford to feed abandoned horses? What are your local laws concerning this? In some places you can keep an abandoned horse but in others you must take them to auction. The process can take months. If somebody pays for boarding but takes very poor care for their horse you could be liable. 

Do you have access to a good hay supplier? Feed? Who would be responsible for feeding and mucking? Do you own a tractor and a horse trailer? Do you have access to a good vet and a good farrier? 

I am not trying to discourage you so much as trying to suggest that you go about this slowly. I think it would be a good idea to live on the property for a while before you jump in. Good luck with your decision.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Also, I would form an S corp to limit personal liability. Just to add to everything that Joshie put forth.


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## EscapingToronto (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks for the responses so far, it's some good stuff to think about!
I should probably mention I'm in Ontario, Canada, so the insurance stuff isn't as much of a killer. From what I understand, boarders are responsible to insure and vet their own horses, and my own farm insurance that includes boarding 10 horses or less isn't terrible (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong! ) 
The horses I'd plan to board would be more companion horses of not much value.
The property we're looking at buying wouldn't require a mortgage so I wonder if that would increase the economic viability of an operation like this? I'm not looking to get rich, but a little more than breaking even would be nice.


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## krische1012 (May 3, 2009)

I would maybe consider offer self care board. They do all the work and pay you for use of the facility, might be easier for you.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

You need to sit down with your Insurance person, go over details and costs, to know exactly what is covered by a policy, or not covered. I would think as a business, you would need a much more detailed policy because of liability with the public coming there. You also will have service people coming in to care for horses, Vet, Farriers, Chiro, Massage people, horse Dentist, and maybe Trainers giving lessons. Do you expect Owner to handle their horse for these people or your barn help? Yes, Boarder should have their own coverage on horse, but many do not. You ALSO need to KNOW you are covered as the property owner, should anything happen while those folks are at YOUR barn and property.. Riders who might fall off, need to be covered somehow, in your barn policy. Extra important if any horse use is "high risk" like Jumping. Talk to the Agent, get it clear, detailed so you KNOW you are safely insured, before you sign the policy. Especially important if you won't be present much when these other people come to the barn. People can do very stupid things with or around horses. 

Your boarding contract should cover possible horse injury if turned out in groups or if hurt some other way. Also should cover the horse insurance angle, owner pays if they want horse covered, so is under their own policy. Get the right to be able to kick boarder horse out of the barn in a short time of notification, should you need to do it. Sometimes you just need them GONE NOW! 

A clause that Owner/Boarder pays for damage horse causes, because some horses LIVE to destroy things. Friend has a board barn, had one horse need two stall walls inside replaced after a temper tantrum kicking. Same horse also had to have fencing repaired, so between the cost of material, labor, the bill was up over $1000 dollars! Owner screamed about it, but did have to pay because of the contract language. Horse was kicked out before it could do more damage to the facilities. Deposits for stalls or a month's board paid ahead, to be held against damage or skipping out without paying board, can be a good feature in your contract. Charge if board is late, even ONE DAY. Common charge is double the price of monthly board divided by 30 days. Make it expensive to be late paying, because YOU have to pay YOUR bills on time or also face late charges. You have to be really firm on this, no credit or extensions or you will get taken advantage of with sob stories. Not YOUR job to support their horse expenses if they are short of money!!!! If they can't afford to pay you, they need to leave or sell horse.

Signage posted all over and clause in contract for No Smoking on the PROPERTY, not just near the barn. If there is no live fire, you hope the chance of barn burning are much reduced. No exceptions by ANYONE coming on the place. You will need to fire the barn help if they ignore this policy. Fire and barns don't mix in any way.

Have hours barn is open posted, which can make for a real long day. You want to accommodate early and late riding, visits, but it needs a definite start and stop time. You or the barn help need to be able to shut things up at the end of the hours and make sure gates and doors are locked, horses secured in proper places. Boarders coming in after you sure won't close things down like you do, or worry about the gate left unlocked as they leave.

These are only a FEW of the topics I know about, related to boarding horses. Does seem like a thankless job with a lot of difficulties involved, if you are at all going to do a good job of horsekeeping.

Personally, I wouldn't want people coming for self-care at all hours of the day and night. Feeding only one, does get the others excited, while that one is upset at not being fed when the others are. You always get SOMEONE who can't/won't do what is needed in good care, clean to a standard acceptable for good horse health. Maybe they want to ONLY clean weekly, or work on the deep litter method, which is not helping with insect problems for the rest of people.

Self-care barns can be a nightmare to manage with thefts of equipment, hay and grain by other boarders. Or people who run out of feed all the time, so horse has NOTHING to eat this morning or evening. Even if they repay your hay loan, you seldom get the same type or quality hay returned. Barn Owner gets to referee that mess of personalities, with no winners. Maybe have to toss one or more Boarders and horses out for theft. 

Board barns usually run best if things are done for horses all at the same time like feeding, watering, cleaning. Done under supervision or by the same person, to be done to the same level of cleanliness, run on a set schedule so all the jobs are completed in a timely fashion.

For a quantity of horses, 15 acres is not much. I have 14 acres, with about 11 in pastures and paddocks. We have had as many as 10 horses, including foals, and keeping them able to graze quality pasture can be work! You have to manage the pastures with seeding, regular fertilizer (yearly), CONSTANT mowing to keep grass growing, managed turnout times and rotation of fields. Otherwise, your grass is used up and then you have to feed hay. Right now we are down to 5-6, and the grass isn't growing with cold temps. So they are changing fields about every other day, to not overgraze any areas. I probably won't be mowing much more as we move into winter. Will start feeding hay towards the first of Oct because there won't be new grass coming on with shorter daylight hours, cold nights.

You have to be managing the horse turnouts, not leaving it to customers on how long horses graze or where. You also have to control how much of your expensive hay is fed to each animal, or owners will waste a lot, giving extra helpings. Some animals WILL need a lot of hay daily, especially in winter, to keep horse warm in low temps. Other animals will need much less daily, but you NEED to control things, so you don't run out unexpectedly in a snow storm! 

Same kind of control with bedding. Certain owners LIKE to clean stalls, often a number of times while they are at the barn. Many owners don't know how to pick a stall, so they remove a LOT during any cleaning/s they do. So horse who started with a reasonable amount of bedding after morning cleaning by barn help, now has almost NOTHING in his stall and needs more. Or owner comes out and decides horse doesn't have enough, FILLS the stall a foot deep or more, depleting your bedding supplies. I have seen folks dump in 6-8 bags of sawdust in a stall, then horse is so deep he can't walk! YOU get to shovel out that tonnage of sawdust, wet or dry, if you are not firm with the boarders on what is allowed. You MUST have the last word on bedding and hay, because your "reasonable amount" and theirs could be miles apart. Special requests for more of anything, might need extra charges billed to the Boarder because keeping that horse costs you more than keeping the other horses does.

You REALLY want to go into this with your eyes open, details covered, have the contracts well written, so you don't get surprised by the antics of the Boarders. Use a lawyer, to insure the language will hold up in a court, should you need to take action about something. Boarding barns succeed or fail by the actions of the Barn Owner and their help. Seems like fair but FIRM rules work best. Be consistant, with no politics or favorites in treatment, when dealing with the Boarders.

Wow, this sure got long! Sorry about that.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I wouldn't be nearly as concerned about boarding with someone who was new to boarding as I would someone who had limited current exposure to equine health practices. 

I do understand you spent a great deal of time on someone else's farm but did that include diagnosing health issues, herd health programs, etc. Will you offer stall & turnout or just board in a common pasture. 

The other thing you need to consider beyond just boarding horses is what can those people do with their horses. Do you have an arena or are you conveniently located near riding trails? A lot of pleasure riders don't have trucks and trailers to take their horses someplace else to play. 

It sounds good on paper to care for horses and get paid for it but I promise you that not every owner is a pleasure to deal and generally, they all want top dollar care for rock bottom prices and you spend a great deal of time hunting them down for payment.


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## EscapingToronto (Jun 27, 2011)

The property comes with one 60x80 enclosed arena and is located between three 2000 hectare conservation areas (and borders on one of them). 
goodhors, you mentioned some excellent points that I haven't thought of, thank you 
I currently have one good friend who happens to be a riding coach who has a retired horse who has volunteered to be my first boarder if we end up purchasing the property. Because this wouldn't be my main source of income (or *any* source of income?), I'd have time to slowly select boarders that would be a good fit, and if people felt they could get a better value for their money elsewhere, I wouldn't be offended if they left. 
Is it common practise to be paid up front at the beginning of the month? 
I have next to zero experience with diagnosing health issues. Is that typically the responsibility of the barn owner or the horse owner?
I know these are the most basic questions and that anyone who doesn't know the answers to has no business running a barn, I have to start somewhere


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I read your post and the first thing that popped into my mind didn't even have anything to do with horses or boarding or such... 

My question is, I know you said you practically grew up on a friends farm, but do you honestly know how much work goes into the upkeep of a farm without running it as a business? Do you understand what kinds of costs you'll be looking at for just the upkeep? the costs of fencing and equipment you will need to keep the place up? The amount of time you'll be spending just keeping grass cut?

Personally, if it was me, I'd buy the property if you really want to live in the country, and find out if at first keeping a "farm" up is really within your abilities, and if you have the time and money to keep just the minimal going..

Living on a friends farm isn't the same as owning your own.

My wife and I recently bought a place, and have been spending a fortune just getting the things we will have to have to keep the place up...Not to mention all of the time we have been spending fixing things up and trying to keep the weeds at bay.... I've owned other places in the country with several acres, and the costs just for upkeep weren't exactly cheap. The thing I was ALWAYS short on was time.. there was never enough time in the day to get half of what needed get done done... 

Don't jump in too deep at one time.. Start out slow and work your way up to your dream... If you try to jump into it all at one time, there's going to be a great chance it's going to become a nightmare..


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

EscapingToronto said:


> I have next to zero experience with diagnosing health issues. Is that typically the responsibility of the barn owner or the horse owner?
> I know these are the most basic questions and that anyone who doesn't know the answers to has no business running a barn, I have to start somewhere


Owners are not likely to be out with their horses every day so it has been my experience that they do rely on the facility owner to alert them to illness and injuries and quite a few illnesses and injuries can't wait until you locate an owner by phone and they need something to relay to a vet. You need to be able to at least know what warrants a vet visit and what doesn't. Can you at least identify colic and founder? If a horse needs emergency care before a vet or owner can get there. What do you plan on doing with an sick, injured or dying horse if an owner is on vacation or can't get there until after work? That is the reality of boarding horses. 

If you bring in a coach or instructor, check your insurance again because that changes your liability insurance greatly so you'll need to double check that as well. 

I'm not telling you it's a bad idea, but you do need to understand the reality of boarding horses and I promise you, it's a lot harder than you think it is.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

EscapingToronto said:


> Is it common practise to be paid up front at the beginning of the month?
> I have next to zero experience with diagnosing health issues. Is that typically the responsibility of the barn owner or the horse owner?


The fact that you said this makes me think you might be heading for trouble if you do this.

Just a scenario- it's the first of the month and board is due. Mary comes to you (if you're lucky and you don't have to run her down to find out,) to say her car broke down and she's a bit short til her next pay check in two weeks. Are you going to stop feeding until she ponies up? No- you feed. 
Mary comes to you in two weeks and pays most of the bill with another promise. This keeps repeating until suddenly you note that she is more than a thousand dollars behind. Now she is not coming around anymore at all. You hear through the grapevine that she lost her job and moved, you don't know where. And you now have to do all the care for the horse.
So you start proceeding to take the horse, who is not worth what she owes, so you can eventually sell it to recoup some of your costs. You make a good faith attempt to follow your local laws (a learning curve) and the process is relatively fast at 2 months. Then you proceed to try to sell the horse.

The barn you are talking about is pretty big and there will be lots of challenges. A person you think is a good fit has unsuspected liabilites. Or two people don't get along and drive you crazy with complaints. Or the person you throw out calls in an animal abuse complaint.

If you are totally in love with horses and love the environment, you will put up with these things. 

A lot of people keep a horse on a shoestring- and when that shoe string snaps, not just a few leave the mess with you.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I have boarded my horses all over the country..from big show barns to small operations. I've seen really great places and terrible ones and I would never, ever be a boarding stable. It's very hard to please horse owners and if you do please some you'll probably irritate others. 
As far as not having horse experience: I boarded at a stable in AZ where the owner was an experienced horsewoman and took over after her father died. Unfortunately her husband ( a retired major league baseball player and very nice guy) didn't. 
One day I was there cleaning my stall and he wandered over to chuckle about another boarder's kid opening my horse's stall door and my horse getting into another boarder's grain can!!! 
This happened the evening before and I'd fed my horse twice since then. Luckily, he must not have gotten much because he never had a problem, but the owner's husband was embarrassed that he didn't know how bad that was.
Unless I had no other choice, I wouldn't really want to board where the owner didn't understand horse health issues, etc.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Okay I am kind of considering similar things right now. However, I have a lifetime (not that long I'm only 34!) of experience with horses. Plus, my goal before marriage was large vet degree. I am looking at purchasing a property that is set up already as a stable and I am situated between two show hubs in Florida... but there are so many liabilities, so many little hinky things that if you do not know horse nutrition, a little medicine and psychology-- oh my you may find yourself in over your head very quickly. 

I am with Lisa and Where I Want To... you don't hav e to know how to manage a barn as much as I want you to know about horses.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

Personally, I would never run a boarding barn. I've worked in one, plus do self care for my horses. Both can be a royal pain. I was out at midnight once because someone forgot to close a gate, and the BO was in Florida! I was the only one she could get at that time of night.


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## brody (Feb 19, 2009)

We are currently looking at building barns etc ... excellent thread 

in my experience most people won't think to ask how much experience you have 

but you need to be comfortable dealing with all the bits and pieces that come up


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

I have been thinking about this thread and have been wondering a coue of things. Have YOU ever personally owned horses? If so, how long? Was it ever on your own property? There is a big difference between constantly being around horses and owning them. There is a big difference between owning a boarded horse and keeping one on your own land. I was amazed at the difference there was when we brought ours to our own place. I would suggest anybody board their first horse for six to 12 months. There can be a steep learning curve. 

I would insist that all horses use the same vet and the same farrier. In a big emergency I wouldn't want to go through the list of vets because it would be your place you need to have a good relationship with a bet. It is a heck of a lot harder to do when one is working with several different vets. I would want a vet care deposit so that I wouldn't get stuck with bills. I would also want boarders to pay a farrier fee every month or two. If you include this as part of your boarding fee you might lose money if farrier fees increase. 

I would also make everybody use the same farrier and have him come out and do them all at the same time. Some people let their horses' hooves grow way too long. You would most likely be responsible for making sure horses are well cared for and you don't want animal control at your place it would also be a lot more convenient and easier for you to have them done at the same time. 

Who will be responsible for care when you are at work? You will have to work every day of the year, even on holidays. You will never be able to vacation. Can you keep a down horse or a colicky horse up and be with it then go to your job the next day? Would yor recognize colic? 

How many friends and relatives of your boarders do want on your farm? What about the noise? Personally, I would not feel terribly comfortable having a bunch of people coming and going on my place. You will have little privacy. 

Do you have good fencing? Access to hay and its storage? Good contacts are important. Our neighbor is a rodeo guy. Even he has had his horses get out. Keeping up with fencing care is a pain in the batootie. 

If you board only eight or ten horses you probably cannot afford to hire help. I would not give discounts to friends. They often expect that. I have a Canadian friend who has a friend who wanted a horse for her granddaughter. My friend found a free been there, done that horse. My friend paid for half the cost of the horse. Even though my friend ended up paying most of the bills her friend abandoned the horse.


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## EscapingToronto (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks for all the input, everyone! 
I think we're going to go ahead with purchasing the property but think long and hard about the boarding with strangers. The general consensus from everyone I've asked so far seems to be that the *people* are the worst part, which isn't something I'd like to be ruining what was intended as a hobby. 
Perhaps I'll just stick with boarding my friend's horse for a while and see where that takes me. 
I'm not too worried about the amount of work or hours, we're a "multi-generation" family (we live with my son and father-in-law) and I work from home so someone would always be available, but it doesn't sound overly tempting to have to deal with difficult people on my "off time".


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

Joshie, not saying this is always the case, but I know both vets and farriers that refuse to do certain horses on a farm. Why? Because the owner does nothing to correct bad behavior, and neither the vet nor the farrier feel like dealing w/a horse that is constantly rearing, striking out w/hooves, etc. Nor should they have to. It's one thing if it's a one time reaction-especially if the horse is a rescue, like mine is. But, the owner should work w/them and get them to where they stand for both.


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## EscapingToronto (Jun 27, 2011)

From asking around in the area, it seems quite acceptable here for boarders to have their own vet and farrier but I can see both sides having their advantages and disadvantages.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

As an owner, there are Vets and Farriers whom I wouldn't have on the place for care. Just bad technicians. And other folks LOVE those same Vets and Farriers. So letting a boarder have their own choice available is better, but you use whoever you can get out when trouble happens in the middle of the night. Best to let the boarder have whoever they want to use named on their horse, with billing and handling between Owner and Service Person. Barn is not involved unless an Emergency situation arises, needs immediate attention.

I would be out trimming my own horses instead of calling some of the local Farriers to look at them. Same with the cow Vets, haven't a clue on how to treat a horse except roughly. No idea on more modern treatments of common situations, including Colics. NOT who I want for my horse!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I would *never* and have never boarded at a place that required me to use their farrier and vet. 
I've never even heard of a place that does that. I might happen to use the same vet or farrier that a boarding stable owner does, but I would never agree to be forced to use someone just because I boarded there. You put that rule in place and you're going to have a bunch of boarders who either don't know much or don't care much.

I even boarded at an equine vet's stable in Michigan once and several boarders used a different vet than the owner.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

I have operated my own boarding facility and to say it is not easy is the understatement of the year. However, I did it for a good long time, only had one abandoned horse (sold it for what was owed); and only a few barn dramas (got them on their drama llama and off the property). All in all, the hardest part of it was retaining "good" barn help (it is hard, dirty, difficult, dangerous, hot, cold, wet, yucky, stinky, smelly, morning till night, hard on clothing, work.) Even paying 10.00 an hour plus an apartment and utilities..it was hard to keep a good barn worker as if they are good, another barn will offer more and off she goes..and if they aren't good..they get fired and there ya are..no barn help..

that and never having one day off in 10 years was why I closed my barn. I had great boarders overall, you can be picky and get the best boarders with nice horses, but it takes about a year to "weed through the nut jobs (both equine and human).

If I were to do it again (and I might one day), I would do retirement care only. No riders so no arenas, no jumping, dressage, cross country, barrel racing, etc. injuries..just old Bell who is too old to jump anymore and her Mom wants her to have a nice retirement home. Mom might come out twice a year to see her, but now has moved on to a new horse and new competitions and owes it to Bell to keep her comfortable till she passes.

Old Bell ages out, and owner has Bell put down. Worst case would be no worse than a regular riding horse (colic, broke leg, etc.) and the farm vet or their vet would take care of it. A farrier every six - seven weeks for trims and/or shoes, all the supplements that Mom wants her Bell to have, blanketing in the winter, fan in the summer, old age related complaints (arthritis, sometimes previous founder, no teeth, )

but overall - a big decrease in expenses as no indoor arena or outdoor arena to maintain, no huge tack room (no one is riding remember, these are all retired ponies) to maintain, no human interaction day in and day out as most folks retire a horse and will inquire or see them at the most a couple of times a month. I have done this on a limited basis and it begins with a visit every day, then once a week, then twice a month, on down to twice a year.

You can take video and send it through email or put up a webpage and post the vids there for the owners to see. Some really nice retirement facilities will have webcams in the stalls or paddocks that are always running so the owner can see their pony.

Less hassle, pretty much same dollars coming in and less expensive for the owner.

You do need to be really familiar with retired horses and their health care and feed/nutrition needs. You will not be able to board all horses together in one "big ole pasture" as someone will get the beans knocked out of himself by others..so have to do turnout in companionable groups and by gender (some geldings will act studdish around mares and run them and some mares can be absolutely rank around a gelding)..

Takes a good eye to deal with horses daily..

I love my boarding barn..lol..and pay dearly for it. My BO works herself silly to make sure the horses are well cared for and they look it. I use their vet and farrier as they are the best in the area and my horse just shines. 

I do my own stall on Sunday, have full use of three arenas (one jumping, one dressage, and one indoor), lovely trails, good size 12 x 12 stalls, loads of shavings, mats, indoor and outdoor washracks, tackroom, good instructors if I need a lesson, and two miles from my house. Can't beat it with a stick


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> I would *never* and have never boarded at a place that required me to use their farrier and vet.
> I've never even heard of a place that does that. I might happen to use the same vet or farrier that a boarding stable owner does, but I would never agree to be forced to use someone just because I boarded there. You put that rule in place and you're going to have a bunch of boarders who either don't know much or don't care much.
> 
> I even boarded at an equine vet's stable in Michigan once and several boarders used a different vet than the owner.


I would have no problem with it at all, as long as I got to pick the vet and farrier everybody had to use.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

It's probably a better policy to have a couple of vets and farriers you maintain a good relationship with and could recommend if asked. But forcing everyone to use the same vet? Well I suppose some people could be sold on the 'facility veterinarian' idea. ~shrug~ Myself? I might like the sort of people I board for have an informed decision already about who they want to use-- unless they are brand spanking new to the area.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wr said:


> I would have no problem with it at all, as long as I got to pick the vet and farrier everybody had to use.


Well there is that. Except then you'd have to listen to all the complaints, sniping and backstabbing about your choices.

I boarded in a place in AZ and the horse next to mine was a Missouri Foxtrotter. The horse was cresty and thick and had a long, curly coat even in the heat of a desert summer. Drank and peed like a son of a gun. You'd try to tell the owner about Cushings and he would absolutely not listen. I had a vet out for one of mine and asked him about the MFT and the vet knew by looking. I finally loaned the owner some body clippers and showed him how to clip the poor thing and gave him my farriers number so the farrier could possible head off bad things. Inevitably, the horse foundered and badly. That is the only time I've ever seen sinkfoot.
While that poor horse laid in his stall groaning in pain, unable to get to his feet with pressure sores because the owner refused to put him down...the owner blamed my farrier!!! He finally put the poor guy down but people will blame farriers and vets for everything.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Wow, Lisa, that's awful. I guess you'd have to realize that too, if you decide to have a boarding barn-- sometimes you are going to see owners literally kill their horses with ignorance.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

I have to respond to all the horse EXPERTS ,You have to remember at some time in your life you were a newbie also , and someone gave you a chance to learn But I think the main thing she would have to decide is what type of barn "show barn /dressage /jumper or western pleasure ,because I'm sure many of you have seen the serious drama that can happen when you mix all these different types of people into 1 barn .What works for some may be totally wrong for someone else . Not everyone wants a show horse and the same goes for riding styles to each their own but when you try to dictate vets/trainers/feed/ you will never find a happy medium unless you have all like minded individuals boarding there . Many a stable owner has rued the day they became a boarding barn and lost control of they're dream !


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I managed a large barn- boarders, two standing stallions, and a hack line. There were at least 5 different farriers, 3 Vets, and 3 trainers (horses and lessons.) You are never ever going to get a barn full of horse people to agree to use the same farrier and Vet, ever. For the most part everyone got along well but I'm not the most patient person and if you annoyed me you heard about it. My first line was always, "I'm not your mommy." :happy2:

The stableman's lien law in NY is cut and dry and it was used periodically. I had to go to court once when a woman said she had paid, she hadn't and we had the paperwork to back up our case. However, we rarely made enough money to cover the board. I know of one stable owner that would leave the horse tied to a tree at the owner's house after two months board was owed.  

I'd never board with a newbie, my horses are far to important to me to leave in the hands of someone that wouldn't realize if a horse was very sick, how to grain, how to turn out on pasture, etc. all of that takes time to learn. No one starts at the top of their game, wisdom comes with time.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Heh, I like that tie the horse in their front yard thing. That sounds like a winning strategy right there. How did you deal with records with people who want to pay cash? I am considering having a no cash policy, Money order, cashier's check, paypal, check, anything that leaves an indisputable paper trail. And... having cash on hand like that just troubles me.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

CraterCove- I used a receipt book, no matter how the board was paid (credit card, check, money order, cash, and a few boarders worked off all or part of their board) was recorded, I made a copy of how they paid (even if it was cash) and the boarder and I both signed it. 

I'd sooner stick a needle in my eye than own a boarding barn. Unless you live in a very affluent area you are never going to do better than a bit over breaking even. The insurance alone is a staggering amount. The only way I'd even consider it is a retirement farm like Sidepasser mentioned, even then you'd have to carry a good sized liability insurance policy. 

It was extreme good luck that the woman who tied the horses to a tree in the owner's yard wasn't sued. I believe she had it as part of her contract, plus her father was a high profile attorney, but she would have been liable if the horse got loose and was hit.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> Well there is that. Except then you'd have to listen to all the complaints, sniping and backstabbing about your choices.


I've been told I'm a lot like buffalo - things are great if they're going my way. But realistically, I would not allow someone else to decide who should care for my horses but thankfully, I don't have to board so I can avoid the associated politics.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

CraterCove said:


> Wow, Lisa, that's awful. I guess you'd have to realize that too, if you decide to have a boarding barn-- sometimes you are going to see owners literally kill their horses with ignorance.



When we boarded at the vet's barn in Michigan, we watched an owner flatly refuse to put down a terribly colicking pony because he didn't want to disappoint his children. That poor pony died in agony while the vet pleaded with the moron to let him put it out of it's misery. You do see a lot of well meaning idiocy and resulting cruelty at boarding stables.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Grumpy old man said:


> I have to respond to all the horse EXPERTS ,You have to remember at some time in your life you were a newbie also , and someone gave you a chance to learn But I think the main thing she would have to decide is what type of barn "show barn /dressage /jumper or western pleasure ,because I'm sure many of you have seen the serious drama that can happen when you mix all these different types of people into 1 barn .What works for some may be totally wrong for someone else . Not everyone wants a show horse and the same goes for riding styles to each their own but when you try to dictate vets/trainers/feed/ you will never find a happy medium unless you have all like minded individuals boarding there . Many a stable owner has rued the day they became a boarding barn and lost control of they're dream !


Maybe you can explain what you mean here? The OP asked for advice and knowledgeable horse people here gave her their opinions. If you are so insecure as to see everyone posting here as HORSE EXPERTS and that bothers you because you aren't, maybe you could go to the goat or chicken forum and offer your non-expert advice. I can't guarantee they'll want it but it's worth a try.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

I have never, ever been tempted to go into the boarding business! 

I had a guy ask me once if he could keep a horse at my place. I had a small pasture and a run in shed, no stalls or arena to maintain. I asked what we was willing to pay and he said about a hundred bucks a month. This was back in the 80's and cost about $50.00 a month to feed and hay one horse. I told him if he thought I was going to take care of his horse for a little over a dollar a day he was off his rocker. Even at today's boarding prices I doubt if the profit margin is any higher.

About the only thing I would consider doing in the event I was no longer using my barns or pastures would be to lease them out to someone for their own use with a very strict contract making them responsible for self care, providing their own feed & hay and also maintaining the barns and pastures. I know several people who have made this deal with farmers no longer using their pasture and barn.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> When we boarded at the vet's barn in Michigan, we watched an owner flatly refuse to put down a terribly colicking pony because he didn't want to disappoint his children. That poor pony died in agony while the vet pleaded with the moron to let him put it out of it's misery. You do see a lot of well meaning idiocy and resulting cruelty at boarding stables.


More than any of the rest of the potential downsides, I think situations like this trouble me the most. I don't know if I'd deal with that well and it brings tears of anger and frustration to my eyes just imagining being in that position. One realizes you can't save them all from all the ills of the world but to be forced to bear witness when there is nothing you can do? That gives me real pause.


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## EscapingToronto (Jun 27, 2011)

Everyone seems to be bringing up the price of insurance... I'm wondering if that's just an American thing or Canada as well? All of the insurers I've spoken to so far have been quite reasonable (all things considered). Am I just asking for the wrong type of coverage or is it just not that outrageous compared to the cost of everything else here? lol 
Even my friend who is a dressage coach says she only pays $300-$400 a year. I can't imagine being successfully sued for very many things here, outside of catastrophic injuries.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Wellllll.... Okay, so insurance in Florida (as I have been researching it) is a complicated subject. Florida has horse laws that basically say (in 60 plus pages) 'horses are dangerous, you take your chances, no one's fault but your own'. However, you still need a release of liability in your boarding contract and for _anyone_ I mean even your own mother, who sets foot on the stable grounds. You also need clauses that state boarders are responsible for damage caused by their horses to the facilities and property. You also need stated clearly what the limits are should gross negligence be cited in a horse's death or injury. Then you can reduce your insurance needs to damage. But you still need to require trainers who use your facility to have their own liability insurance and if you use a farm trailer and truck to transport people and horses to shows you need additional insurance for that.

I think America is a very litigious country... everyone thinking that Mc Donald's hot coffee case means they can get easy money for a splinter or a stomped foot. (btw off topic but that McDonald's coffee case was actually a really good one, the actual details are _very_ interesting) And, even when no one is really to blame, people who are hurt, emotionally or physically are ripe for the picking by ambulance chasers who will goad them into believing money will sooth their aching hearts and cause pain to someone else in retribution.​


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## EscapingToronto (Jun 27, 2011)

That's rubbing off on us here too, but not a lot of Canadians are grasping that in Canada you sue for *damages* (no pain and suffering) so unless someone is rendered unable to work, there really wouldn't be any "damages" to pay back. (I really wish they would cancel Judge Judy up here!! lol)


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

Sometimes people don't tell their insurers the whole truth. Say they have horses but forget to mention they train horses and charge for the services. Make a big difference.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

rod44 said:


> Sometimes people don't tell their insurers the whole truth. Say they have horses but forget to mention they train horses and charge for the services. Make a big difference.


That seems just crazy, or stupid to me-- Why get insurance at all if you are going to do things that would potentially void any agreements you have? Also, I'd just like to mention my distaste for fraudsters, they make services of many different types more expensive and more difficult to get.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

Because some people can't think past the end of their noses. They think they are pulling something over on the insurance company. They don't think ahead that they might be voided.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

It irritates me that they either are dumb enough not to see that their little cleverness makes my s--- uh*censor* stuff cost more. Or, they are actually evil and either don't care that their actions affect others adversely or maybe they take pleasure in it. 

People tinkle in the community pool and then are shocked when it's closed down or it's suddenly regulated to death.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

CraterCove said:


> It irritates me that they either are dumb enough not to see that their little cleverness makes my s--- uh*censor* stuff cost more. Or, they are actually evil and either don't care that their actions affect others adversely or maybe they take pleasure in it.
> 
> People tinkle in the community pool and then are shocked when it's closed down or it's suddenly regulated to death.


I don't think it will cost you anything. When someone comes in with a claim that they were injured, the insurance company looks at the coverage issued and sees they weren't insured for it and voids the policy. It's a stupid risk to take


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

My comment about fraudsters was kind of more broad than just the insurance issue. But I don't know, someone has to pay for the investigation of fraud in insurance, right? Doesn't that cost trickle down to other subscribers?


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

EscapingToronto said:


> Everyone seems to be bringing up the price of insurance... I'm wondering if that's just an American thing or Canada as well? All of the insurers I've spoken to so far have been quite reasonable (all things considered). Am I just asking for the wrong type of coverage or is it just not that outrageous compared to the cost of everything else here? lol
> Even my friend who is a dressage coach says she only pays $300-$400 a year. I can't imagine being successfully sued for very many things here, outside of catastrophic injuries.


I carried a whole lot of insurance..
liability, handling insurance, special insurance for the truck/trailer to haul commercially, ins. for the barn, insurance on the hay sheds and their contents (it's tough replacing $$$$ for hay in the dead of winter when hay has gone up double/triple in price plus replace the hay shed), a policy to cover the boarder's tack in case of theft (it was included in my umbrella policy)..

Insurance costs a bundle, especially if you are handling equines that cost in the five figure range and up, have trainers and instructors on the grounds teaching and training..all it takes is ONE accident and you can spend thousands defending your case. That is why one has insurance..let them handle the lawsuits.

BTW - I am the only person at my barn that has a TWH. I board at a dressage/hunter barn. I also ride western sometimes. 
The girl next to me has an arab and rides western. 

We get along at the barn. I ride in the hunter arena or the dressage arena, I ride Josey western with dressage riders. I think it depends on whether the rules are laid out explicitly and what the BO would put up with. Ours is a professional barn, but not everyone shows. It is the atmosphere that "we are all horse people" and so even if we disagree, it is done in a civil manner.

_I think the Barn owner really sets the tone for the barn. If they allow things to get out of hand and do nothing to stop it, that is what will happen eventually._


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