# Baby goat with a cleft palate



## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

What's the chances they will survive?


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## betsy h. (Sep 28, 2008)

I checked him before he left and it is not cleft. Ran my finger up inside really far- it is a very deep inguinal groove (a little deeper than one usually sees) in the top jaw that is a normal thing in a goats' mouth.

With a cleft pallet, that is one with an actual hole, it shows up the majority of the time in the forefront of the upper jaw , about where their eyes are.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

A true cleft pallet usually has alot more going wrong with the kid than simply a hole in the upper jaw. They will bubble milk in their nose, gasp and act like they are drowning when taking their bottle. A vet can easily check this, and no it's not normal to have a deep groove, it should be more flat than caverness, or they would have pinched nostrils/nasal bone also, which you can usually see quite eaisly if you have seen alot of goatlings.

If you are suspecting this at all, pay for a vet visit, no way do you want to breed this defect into your herd. And if it isn't it will calm your fears. Vicki


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## deafgoatlady (Sep 5, 2007)

Do u have picture of his mouth?


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

I just returned from the vet before I posted this. He showed it to me. IDK, I have never seen it before, but I could see the really deep grooves. He was getting pnuemonia from aspirating the milk, so first sign of that and off to the vet we went this morning. I knew that he was not nursing right the second time I fed him.

Milk comes out of his nose as soon as he is done eating. Just yesterday he finally actually ate really good, he is getting better at actually sucking. Still not normal, but he is eating 4 oz every 4 hours very happily. 

The vet diagnosed him with a cleft palate and mild pnuemonia. We are going to take it day by day. Any suggestions on how to handle this is appreciated.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

deafgoatlady said:


> Do u have picture of his mouth?


It would be very hard to get a pic, but I may try later. The vet had to hold open his mouth so I could look. It may be tricky, but I will try.

I just gave him and injection of antibiotic. Hope he starts feeling better soon.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Put him down. If a butcher kid what is the point of being on antibiotics? This is mechanical pnemonia, caused by the milk in the lungs, which will never stop, now milk, but then water. 

If a buck this is genetic, even if it is mild bucks used in your breeding program should be perfect specimens of the breed, and out of dams who are better than anything on your place. This buck is neither. This certainly was just an oversite on the breeders part, kids born late in the season and we are exhaused. My contract would have your vet calling my vet and you would get your money back or another kid of equal pedigree (my choice)...what does your contract state? 

Please don't perpetuate this in your herd by keeping and using this buck. Vicki


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## deafgoatlady (Sep 5, 2007)

Well I kinda do agree with Vicki on this one. It will cause so much trouble for get antibotic all the time if he gets sick again and again. I wouldnt keep the buck like that and it will be too much. But I have NEVER seen like that before. I have no idea what does it look like..


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

Pam...I'm sorry you are facing another challenge! Since he is a pet wether, the milk drinking won't be forever so hopefully things will be more normal in a couple of months. Has the vet said anything about how he will be able to eat hay and drink water?


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Jyllie63 said:


> Pam...I'm sorry you are facing another challenge! Since he is a pet wether, the milk drinking won't be forever so hopefully things will be more normal in a couple of months. Has the vet said anything about how he will be able to eat hay and drink water?


Thanks guys. Yes, it seems another challenge. He is just a pet, and therefore no breeding. I have been reading about this and it is possible for him to make it. It will just take a lot of extra everything. I also read that I can wean him earlier than you normally would, this would help. But, I also read that as he grows so will the opening. Some can make and some do not.

My vet agreed, if I am willing, to give him a chance. But he also warned me of what can happen. I decided that if he continues to get pnuemonia, I will have him put down. As of right now, I just have to try.

I just hate that my kids have already gotten attached to him.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians said:


> Put him down. If a butcher kid what is the point of being on antibiotics? This is mechanical pnemonia, caused by the milk in the lungs, which will never stop, now milk, but then water.
> 
> If a buck this is genetic, even if it is mild bucks used in your breeding program should be perfect specimens of the breed, and out of dams who are better than anything on your place. This buck is neither. This certainly was just an oversite on the breeders part, kids born late in the season and we are exhaused. My contract would have your vet calling my vet and you would get your money back or another kid of equal pedigree (my choice)...what does your contract state?
> 
> Please don't perpetuate this in your herd by keeping and using this buck. Vicki


He is a pet, and only a pet. I do not have a herd, only the twins. I got them from Betsy H. on here. I finally decided to try again after losing Baaabs last year. Maybe I should not have goats. 
I don't know how this may affect his dam or future breedings. OH, and it is not in his jaw, it runs the length of the roof of his mouth, the palate. It looks like two sliced areas. He eats very well, and only has very little milk that comes out of his nose, compared to a couple of days ago. I can only be optimistic and try. I have already told my older kids that he may not make it, but it's the three yr old that is really attached to him. I will get him cleared up, respiratory wise, and see how soon it sets up again, and then make a decision. Thanks so much for your advice, it is much appreciated.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

I have actually seen regular bottle babies dribble milk out of their nose if they gulp it too quickly. Apparently they snort it up their nose and then sneeze/cough it out.


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## Sweet Goats (Nov 30, 2005)

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I do see both sides to what to do. Put hims down so he is not sick, but try if he can make it then good, and how do you not try on something that you are attached to.

From a Business stand point put him down but as a pet, try to save him.

Good Luck and I hope it turns out for you.


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## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

I am sooooo sorry! It does not seem fair that you should be having all of these problems.

My bottle babies now drink out of a pail. Maybe it would be better to pail feed him due to gravity.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

Tallabred said:


> I am sooooo sorry! It does not seem fair that you should be having all of these problems.
> 
> My bottle babies now drink out of a pail. Maybe it would be better to pail feed him due to gravity.


How old are your babies? I have tried that with him, but he gets more up his nose that way, lol, right now anyways. 


I also wanted to ask, your supposed to feed the baby with their heads tilted up, but he actually does better with his head level. Will this cause more damage, or whatever works for him?


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## betsy h. (Sep 28, 2008)

If it becomes a problem, bring him back to me and I'll replace him with a slightly older boy who's mom is going as a family milker to some friends and who's sister is one of my best kids this yr.

Thunder/Bo was gulping milk here, but nothing more than drinking too fast and sneezing when he did it. Not the 'whole cheese sandwich' (George Carlin), but more like when someone laughs and spills milk out their nose-

Do not put money into him! I know he will become your beloved pet, but break your heat one time and go on- putting lots of money into a wether is not worth the effort- I watched my neighbors put $1,000 into a wether who had stones to keep him alive. Not cool.

BTW> this is a wether- wethers are sold 'as is', replacements are not a problem as long as I have one to replace him with!


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

Pam, I am so sorry your going through something like this. I sure hope if you decide to give him a chance that he does well. I tend to agree with Vicki though that after the milk it might be the same thing with water but I sure hope not for you & your human kids.

Of course this isn't your fault & I wouldn't give up on having goats, you just had a couple sick babies to start which you wouldn't have known anyways when you got them.
Goats are such a joy & your whole family will Love them, it's just a shame you have 1 that may not make it. 
Hugs to you & all the kids!


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## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

My doelings are almost 3 months old. When I first gave them the pails they made a mess - putting their noses into the milk and then shaking it out of their noses all over me! They got used to it very quickly.


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## Pammielu (May 19, 2008)

I just wanted to let everyone know, that he is doing great today! He is up and jumping and having a good goat time! When he eats, no milk comes out of his nose, and he does not get choked or cough. After he is done eating he sneezes a few times, and milk comes out. 

My DD read the post from Betsy about bringing him back, and almost lost it. LOL We are in love with him already, and his ears have stood up, Betsy! We will take it day by day and see what happens. Thanks everyone and wish us luck!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Good luck to you and the baby goat! I'm glad he is doing good  !!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Ultimately it probably won't kill him at all. After all, the genetics survived long enough for someone in his lineage to breed and pass the defect along to him. 

I've had a few animals in the past with various defects that made them unsuitable for breeding, but I always felt it was a huge loss because their personality always seemed to be such an excellent representative of the breed. Case in point, I had a dog I got from my aunt (a breeder) who had some visual defects that prevented her from competing in shows or being used as breeding stock but nothing wrong with her otherwise. She was the best dog I ever owned and was my great companion for 14 years. 

What you decide to feed is your own business. What you decide to breed is EVERYONE'S business.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

So glad to hear he's feeling & doing better today! Thank Goodness!


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## kreddish (Mar 17, 2009)

Sooo glad to hear he is doing better... I only for now have pet goats... everyone has a name and a place in the little heard. Hope he starts feeling better and can stay within your heard as a happy pet I love my little pygmy heard!


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## Gabrielle Jedlicko (Jan 23, 2021)

Pammielu said:


> I just returned from the vet before I posted this. He showed it to me. IDK, I have never seen it before, but I could see the really deep grooves. He was getting pnuemonia from aspirating the milk, so first sign of that and off to the vet we went this morning. I knew that he was not nursing right the second time I fed him.
> 
> Milk comes out of his nose as soon as he is done eating. Just yesterday he finally actually ate really good, he is getting better at actually sucking. Still not normal, but he is eating 4 oz every 4 hours very happily.
> 
> The vet diagnosed him with a cleft palate and mild pnuemonia. We are going to take it day by day. Any suggestions on how to handle this is appreciated.


Hi l have a 4 mounth oll


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

A single trip to the Vet will cost more than any meat goat will ever be worth. I don't bottle feed or medicate baby goats. Anything born at my place needs to grab a teat and hold on. Deformed or sickly kids are put down at once. This leaves more milk for the healthy ones. Raising livestock isn't a Disney Movie.


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## Gabrielle Jedlicko (Jan 23, 2021)

My pygmy x australin mini is now 4 months old, have had no vet interventions yet, was advised to cull at 3 days, understand his long deep pallet cleft may be a sighn of more devastating inflictins, but for know he is happly head butting sheep 20 X larger then him , Your choice your animal.


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## Gabrielle Jedlicko (Jan 23, 2021)

Gabrielle Jedlicko said:


> Hi l have a 4 mounth oll


If on


Gabrielle Jedlicko said:


> Hi l have a 4 mounth oll


Ilium Sulprim antibiotic paste hopefully will get kid over the worst, if in a cold climate put a dog coat on kid


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