# How a national food policy could save millions of American lives



## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Thoughts?? If they set up a "national food policy" and it doesn't work like they think then what? 

The food system and the diet itâs created have caused incalculable damage to the health of our people and our land, water and air. If a foreign power were to do such harm, weâd regard it as a threat to national security, if not an act of war, and the government would formulate a comprehensive plan and marshal resources to combat it. (The administration even named an Ebola czar to respond to a disease that threatens few Americans.) So when hundreds of thousands of annual deaths are preventable â as the deaths from the chronic diseases linked to the modern American way of eating surely are â preventing those needless deaths is a national priority.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...37f-11e4-836c-83bc4f26eb67_story.html?hpid=z2


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Oh, No.


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## Ceilismom (Jul 16, 2011)

The Law of Unintended Consequences says this would be a terrible idea. Also, you can't legislate or regulate people into caring about the environment, health or nutrition. You can try to force them to do the right thing via laws and fines, but if they don't care, they'll just find a way around it. Educating people doesn't seem to work either, witness "Just Say No" and the D.A.R.E. program.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Soylent Green is people. Soylent brown is the output of that writer.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Down near the end of that commie paper it got to the real goal a tax to support a lot of new offices to control we the people .


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

We need less government in our live.. we don't need them telling us what to eat when and how... 

As Jim pointed out, any time the government tries to step up to "help" us, you just need to look around to realize they don't want to help, but they are looking for more ways to get their hands on our money... 

Control = cash..


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

If someone wants to eat healthy, non GMO, gluten free, and whatever else they have come up with - I say more power to them. If they want ME to eat that crap - you better have a lot of firepower and some restraints. I don't mind people choosing to eat whatever type of diet they want. But they have absolutely no right to try and force me into eating it. 

I do agree with government subsidies being complete disaster though. They have that going for them. Except instead of wanting less government control, they just want different government control.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

and it would prolly include a ban on *BACON* and other pork products like spam in order to be PC:hammer:


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

Oh if they try to take my bacon I WILL come out shooting. Guaranteed.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

paradox said:


> Oh if they try to take my bacon I WILL come out shooting. Guaranteed.


Naw the way the Gov will do it is impose strict regulation on hog farmers raising the price way up then a health tax to boot when you buy it . Growing your own un safe hogs will be kin to printing your own money in the eyes of the law . We got to get inline for the growing demand for Sharia law :thumb:


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## happycat47111 (Nov 23, 2013)

paradox said:


> If someone wants to eat healthy, non GMO, gluten free, and whatever else they have come up with - I say more power to them. If they want ME to eat that crap - you better have a lot of firepower and some restraints. I don't mind people choosing to eat whatever type of diet they want. But they have absolutely no right to try and force me into eating it.
> 
> I do agree with government subsidies being complete disaster though. They have that going for them. Except instead of wanting less government control, they just want different government control.


*Considers the from-scratch beef veggie soup, cornbread, panna cotta, and hot chocolate we're having for supper, all of which is healthy, non GMO, and gluten freeâ¦. and gets feathers severely ruffled.* I beg your pardon. That is not crap. That's good, whole food. 

But I absolutely agree with you on your right to not have it forced down your throat, ditto your stance on subsidies, etc. 

That said, I really do think people who regularly eat of these foods - like the novelty 10,000 calorie fat burgers enveloped in donuts (who'd do that to a good burger or a good donut???) - should have to sign a waiver saying they won't hold the rest of us responsible for paying their medical bills for their poor food choices.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Hey govt, KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY PLATE!!! Now if nutrition was taught in public school I wouldn't object. Offering school kids a healthy tasty lunch instead of just corn dogs and chicken nuggets, I wholly support. Instead of giving kids cereal or donuts for their "free" breakfast, offer them omelets or other wholesome food.

Think about it, children have been suffering from health problems since the public school system stopped serving nutritious and delicious well-cooked meals. It all goes back to education. They don't know any better because their parents weren't taught any better.


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

Just take a look at the school lunches that the kids have to eat now. We don't need the government controlling what we eat. 
We eat healthy here at our house, but, that is our choice, and yes we do eat things that would be banned under the government control, that is our choice also.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

One fact remains this is about a way to get money and control and keep the people from noticing what is going on :sing: You really think the Gov. care if you live or die . In what few years I have left i'm going to eat and drink what I darn well please .:thumb: No one is getting off this rock alive it is just about keep control while they can . :hammer:


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

Don't get me started on school lunches! They have to follow the guidelines now in place thanks to Michelle Obama. The kids hate it! It may be healthier for them, but if they aren't eating it, it's not helping them. Instead they are going home hungry where they eat twice as much garbage because they didn't get lunch. Sooooooo much food is thrown out at school it is crazy. At the middle school & high school they have a line which has Little Debbie's, chips, & pop of all things. If they don't like the lunch they can go through that line. Does that make any sense at all??

Nothing the government does makes sense, especially when they push garbage like this through!


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## Lilith (Dec 29, 2012)

You want me to trust the government to decide what is healthy for me to eat? :yuck: Because large corporations don't spend money lobbying for things like preservative that are bad for us, outlawing or limiting access naturally occurring chemicals that have been safely used for food preservation for hundreds of years (saltpeter case in point), regulating if we can or can not grow our own vegetables in urban areas. Does this idea remind anyone of obamacare? We see how well that is working out!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Give a child a choice between a plain apple and a dish of apple cobbler and most will take the apple cobbler. Blueberry pie with ice cream or a bowl of plain blueberries, the child will usually take the pie. Vegetable soup with a little meat or a plain salad, most will take the soup, especially if it smells good. That is the entire problem. Schools don't "cook" anymore. They import packaged meals which are reheated on site. I saw the changes when my kids were in elementary school. Our school did away with their "kitchen" and cooks just to save a few bucks. Real meals are more labor intensive than setting out a tray of chicken nuggets and a box of whole apples. Just think about it, you pay a couple bucks for your child's lunch. The lunch program is required to be self supporting. That couple dollars must cover; equipment, electric, and personnel. We do it at home without thinking about it but there is a lot of work involved in preparing a meal. From cleaning the produce to washing the dishes and mopping the floors after involves quite a bit of time. Unfortunately the public school system does not value nutritious lunches more than the bottom dollar. But if schools did offer well prepared lunches, they would cost quite a bit more. Parents are already complaining about the cost of $2 a day to feed their child. They sure won't accept paying the $5 that well prepared meals would actually cost. The only alternative is for parents to fix the meals themselves. Not going to happen in the day of single parent or dual income households.


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## beegrowing (Apr 1, 2014)

I'm hooked into e-mails from Marjory Wildcraft and she pointed out something I hadn't heard. For the first time in history our children's generation will Not live as long as our generation. Her comment came from a New York Times article.http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/17/health/17obese.html?_r=1& ....EDIT-OH This article says the same thing.OOOPS.(sorry)
What does this mean for future generations?
No great grandparents and then no grandparents....:Bawling: I certainly agree that food should not be regulated though!!! It's all about the liberty of choice.People Must learn for themselves,over time,and seeing the consequences of what over eating poor food does. I Chose 5 years ago to grow as big a garden as I could and do it organic as much as possible(not 100% hard core though) and to cut down on animal fat and processed junk for our aging health(again not 100%). It's not bacon,which is "real" food, it's all the altered and overprocessed food with no nutrients,substitutes like chemical sweeteners, and the ratio people eat of carbs and fat to vegies and fruit.I don't consider cobbler "bad" or Anything home made "bad"or even anything out there in reasonable amounts with alternating fresh food as terribly "bad".The majority of Americans just don't know How to eat reasonably.Our grandparents ate all kinds of fat and carbs but they worked hard and kept more fit too.


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## mrs whodunit (Feb 3, 2012)

I wouldn't trust the government at all to tell us what we should eat.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The govt does tell people what to eat. It's called the "_Food Pyramid_". It ain't working! As long as they give recommendations and not mandatory dietary restrictions.....

I would prefer we just go back to the 4,4,3,2 routine. At least there was a nice song to go with it.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

sorry, don't need any elitists telling me what to eat..... imagine a 'do-gooder' law, where everyone's pantry is inspected in real time....


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

It'll be a sad day in America when there is a black market for Doritos and Milkyways.


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## happycat47111 (Nov 23, 2013)

texican said:


> sorry, don't need any elitists telling me what to eat..... imagine a 'do-gooder' law, where everyone's pantry is inspected in real time....


More like a barcode scanning system that you have to use to put stuff in your pantry. And if you don't have a barcode, it won't be authorized, so no growing your own food. They'll count your caloric intake based on how much you put in the pantry and take out. If you eat too much, the electronic dog collar you now wear will zap you. Too little, you get injected with a rewarding hit of cocaine or whatever they decide to reward you withâ¦

Too futuristic? Sorry. I kinda went off on a tangent. :ashamed:


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Why the Government want to help each and everyone. All you need to do is give up freedom. That is a no brainier. :facepalm:


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

When I was a kid, schools pushed a high fat diet as "nourishing". 

When I was a young adult the high fat diet was seen as "unhealthy" and the high carb and fiber diet was seen as healthy. 

Now that I am a middle aged adult, the high-carb diet is seen as being unhealthy and the diet high in lean protein and low-carb vegetables is seen as healthy.

And THAT is why the gov needs to keep its hands off of our diet! They do not know what they are talking about!


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

If the government tries to regulate foods it will make another underground economy. During WW2 their were ration stamps, yet black market bacon was popular. A friend of my father went around butchering for farmers at night who would then sell meat without government knowledge. A few years ago Barker central school tried to get rid of sweets in their lunch menu, my wife's niece ended up selling cookies out of her locker and making a tidy sum. Look at alcohol, prohibition caused an increase in crime as people went about trying to get around the law. Look at New York city's soda ban, They made it illegal to sell big sodas so people just bought two medium sized ones instead, until the law was declared unconstitutional. Making laws like that don't work and never will.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I don't know if school lunches were ever anything but a test of survival. I can remember that I loved spaghetti day because it actually looked like food. Even if it was served with an ice cream scoop. And that was 60 years ago. At least we got whole milk. 

.One thing I would support, I used to think, was a decent school lunch for all children for free - no income tests.

But then I think how hard that is with a hundred different dietary requirements and law suits to test them. We used to be able to afford that- all the kids had to cone up with was a nickle for milk and that only in some places.

We're all doomed, doomed, doomed.....


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Yep in the old days in elementary school we had some of the best cooks in the South ,i'm talking five star . We had real beef stew made from start to finish :bow: Those gals took real pride in their food :thumb: Weren't many left overs either :sing:


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Certainly the authors are deluded about both politics, bureaucracy and people in general. The generation that they said was going live longer than the following one lived on fried meat, potatoes and the vegetable catsup. And lots of alcohol. But they also worked a lot harder. My father termed everything fresh and green as rabbit food.

I remember when the NPR series had Michael Pollan on and Paula Poundstone took issue with his insistence that only foods with three ingredients were healthy. She said that the Hostess Ding Dong was, by that standard, the healthiest food. It contained the three basic food groups of cake, icing and cream filled centers.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

where I want to said:


> I don't know if school lunches were ever anything but a test of survival. I can remember that I loved spaghetti day because it actually looked like food. Even if it was served with an ice cream scoop. And that was 60 years ago. At least we got whole milk.
> 
> .One thing I would support, I used to think, was a decent school lunch for all children for free - no income tests.
> 
> ...




The kids get free food here. It started about 10 years or so ago when the kids from Mexico started being bussed up here for school. Free school breakfast and lunches along with free lunches for kids during the summer were kind of a pacifier for the local tax payers.


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2014)

When I was a kid, our garden produce was taken to the middle school up the road. When I attended that school, I got free lunches because the Lunch Ladies loved me! LOL!

Here in San Antonio, I worked for the second largest school district, 60 schools... And they switched to free breakfasts and lunches for everyone before my daughter graduated. So many people were getting free lunches, that it became a waste of time to bother processing all the requests. They just made it 100%... Across the district. 
Her HS was 4,500 kids. 
One of seven HS in our district. 
One of six districts across the city.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

terri9630 said:


> The kids get free food here. It started about 10 years or so ago when the kids from Mexico started being bussed up here for school. Free school breakfast and lunches along with free lunches for kids during the summer were kind of a pacifier for the local tax payers.


I'm confused about why having to pay for free lunches for everyone would be a pacifier for kids coming here from Mexico for school?


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2014)

where I want to said:


> I'm confused about why having to pay for free lunches for everyone would be a pacifier for kids coming here from Mexico for school?



It has to do with the income of the parents, and the percentage of Mexican kids... It lowers the number of kids who do pay, based on their household income. Many of the illegals don't file US taxes & such...


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## cfuhrer (Jun 11, 2013)

X Am. 

'Nuff said.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Sawmill Jim said:


> ... We got to get inline for the growing demand for Sharia law :thumb:


Want to defeat Sharia? Stop eating pork. You heard me right. Stop killing the hogs, the pigs, the piglets, and even the little pet piggies. 

Breed the heck out of them and put pigs on every corner of every block in every city, in addition to every farm and country home. 

Yep, make them run from our country in fear of all the oinkers blanketing the country. 

If they don't run in fear yet, set up compost piles of pig manure on every property in the country, especially the ones uphill from the mosques. 

Once they are gone, the price of bacon will be cheap again. :sing:



:hobbyhors ound: :banana: ​



:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


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## hawgsquatch (May 11, 2014)

The last time I checked the death rate was 100 percent.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Yep in the old days in elementary school we had some of the best cooks in the South ,i'm talking five star . We had real beef stew made from start to finish :bow: Those gals took real pride in their food :thumb: Weren't many left overs either :sing:


Ours were the ones who failed. I can STILL remember the nauseating smells from the cafeteria. The boy's locker room smelled better. Makes me want to retch just thinking about it.


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## happycat47111 (Nov 23, 2013)

Count me in as one of the lucky ones. Not everything that came out of our cafeteria was good, but a lot of it was. Most of those school cooks were moms and grannies. And with few exceptions NO one can cook like an Appalachian granny woman.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

happycat47111 said:


> Count me in as one of the lucky ones. Not everything that came out of our cafeteria was good, but a lot of it was. Most of those school cooks were moms and grannies. And with few exceptions NO one can cook like an Appalachian granny woman.


And with economy too. My mom was like that. She had bulk meals for those days the paycheck was disappearing fast before payday and they were our favorites.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

Our elementary school food was awesome!! Home cooked meals everyday that tasted like home cooked meals my mom made. The lunch lady still remembers me from then & that was 35 years ago. 

Has anyone ever noticed how there are so many more allergies today? I think all of the processed, boxed garbage they feed the kids is the cause. I don't remember anyone in my class being allergic to anything. Now we have to have peanut free zones & kids seem to be allergic to everything. I also never heard of being gluten intolerant until just the past year or so. Makes me wonder what the cause is??


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Wendy said:


> Our elementary school food was awesome!! Home cooked meals everyday that tasted like home cooked meals my mom made. The lunch lady still remembers me from then & that was 35 years ago.
> 
> Has anyone ever noticed how there are so many more allergies today? I think all of the processed, boxed garbage they feed the kids is the cause. I don't remember anyone in my class being allergic to anything. Now we have to have peanut free zones & kids seem to be allergic to everything. I also never heard of being gluten intolerant until just the past year or so. Makes me wonder what the cause is??


Kids stay inside :hammer: And everyone wants everything sanitised .We were kids running barefoot you cut your foot Granny up and poured coaloil on it .If you didn't bleed at least a quart and something weren't dangling ,you were good to go . Doctors were for those things . :sing: Unless you just couldn't go you knew better than to say you were sick .A dose of casteroil a outhouse ,foot of snow and 10f outside curred more ailments than any Dr ever could .:help:


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

My son's school has a sandwich bar
Tomatoe
Onions
Lettuce
Nuts
Mayo
Catsup
Mustard
Ranch
Oil and vinegar
Cut up fruit
That bar is for all students
Note it is not a salad bar......
ya. How the students it is not an issue but the kids love it and it is refilled as needed.
Now, that made a big difference in that any and every school or homemade lunch can be tweeted to encourage the students to eat better. It is not that costly and easy to do.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

where I want to said:


> I'm confused about why having to pay for free lunches for everyone would be a pacifier for kids coming here from Mexico for school?


Not my logic. I'd rather pack a lunch and have lower property/school taxes.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

When I was in HS, and saw the garbage truck drive up, I always wondered if it was making a pickup or a delivery. eep:


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Yeah, more government regulation. That's always the answer.  Thanks, but no thanks. Rationing in an shortage emergency is one thing. Legislating what can be grown or eaten is quite another. Keep your hands off my chocolate!


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

mpillow said:


> and it would prolly include a ban on *BACON* and other pork products like spam in order to be PC:hammer:



I overheard two ladies at the gym talking and one worked in a local school lunchroom in some capacity. She was angry because apparently a certain group was extremely mad about the pepperoni on pizza, so the school obliged to that group at the risk of looking racist so no more pizza. The irony is that she said the pepperoni wasn't even pork. It was a meatless pepperoni. Lol.

The menu already lists which meals contain pork but apparently that's not a good enough reason. I did notice my daughters menu now has only 'cheese' pizza though. (But we pack a lunch daily).


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Meatless pepperoni!!!! That is a horrible, dang.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

It's probably this: http://www.foodservicedirect.com/pr...sine---Meatless-Pizza-Pepperoni-4.2-Ounce.htm ? I've never tried it.

However, I'm guessing that the ones complaning are receiving a free or reduced lunch and would rather complain than bring a lunch from home. Just my 2C.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

I just read the article. I usually like what Michael Pollan has to say but I don't want big gov telling me how to feed my kids. That's my job as a mom (and why both kids pack their own lunches every, single day). I can't remember the time either of them got a school lunch.. my dollar goes further when they bring a lunch from home and what they eat is much better nutritionally than what they would receive at school. Plus, they participate in choosing healthful items themselves.


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## bellcow (May 12, 2014)

There is an opinion out there that in the year 2040 there will be a world wide food shortage. A serious one even here in the USA. Just think when that day gets here no more obesity, no more food allergies, no school lunch complaints. Seems like it will solve a lot of problems. People will be saying "past me some more of them gmos please" or when you ask for some chinken in a restaurant the waitress will ask "fried, grilled or glow in the dark". Some experts claim the world want care how the food was grown. 

I was at a meeting the other night and the topic was parts of the new farm bill. It was pointed out that the price of food or rather a sharp increase in the price of food could be what collapse our economy. The speaker did make some interesting points on how that could happen.

I'll admit I'm hooked on food.

Bellcow


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Jax-mom said:


> It's probably this: http://www.foodservicedirect.com/pr...sine---Meatless-Pizza-Pepperoni-4.2-Ounce.htm ? I've never tried it.
> 
> However, I'm guessing that the ones complaning are receiving a free or reduced lunch and would rather complain than bring a lunch from home. Just my 2C.


In some areas they are making it more and more difficult to bring your own lunch to school. They take lunches they feel are inappropriate and try and restrict when you are allowed to let them bring because somehow my kid having peanut butter might kill an allergic kid or whatever. Instead of complaining I pulled my eldest out of school and will never enter my three others into the public school system, ever.

It's also hard to justify paying in via taxes to the 'free' lunch program and not using it. If they are going to take the money they should put it to good use and we should feel no hesitation about utilizing it. 

As for federal interference in food in general; don't we already have more than enough of that? It continues to surprise me that people will turn to a failed concept again and again for salvation. People lose their faith in god over less than the government has failed at.


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## wes917 (Sep 26, 2011)

Danaus29 said:


> <snip>. The only alternative is for parents to fix the meals themselves. Not going to happen in the day of single parent or dual income households.


We are a dual income home, our son always has a lunch packed. It can be done people are just lazy. Our kids also get dinners made at home, except Wednesday's, that's our treat, we have a great old fashioned family owned pizza shop nearby.


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## wes917 (Sep 26, 2011)

CraterCove said:


> It's also hard to justify paying in via taxes to the 'free' lunch program and not using it. If they are going to take the money they should put it to good use and we should feel no hesitation about utilizing it.
> 
> .


Sucks doesn't it. We have one of the highest tax rates in the state. Our schools are so bad our kids go to private school. It's like paying taxes 3 times.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

CraterCove said:


> In some areas they are making it more and more difficult to bring your own lunch to school. They take lunches they feel are inappropriate and try and restrict when you are allowed to let them bring because somehow my kid having peanut butter might kill an allergic kid or whatever. Instead of complaining I pulled my eldest out of school and will never enter my three others into the public school system, ever.
> 
> It's also hard to justify paying in via taxes to the 'free' lunch program and not using it. If they are going to take the money they should put it to good use and we should feel no hesitation about utilizing it.
> 
> As for federal interference in food in general; don't we already have more than enough of that? It continues to surprise me that people will turn to a failed concept again and again for salvation. People lose their faith in god over less than the government has failed at.



Not just that... we were in one school district here in Iowa and they would inspect the kids lunches from home. If you did not meet the critria on the list of what they considered a heathly lunch they would give the parent a warning. After that they would give the child a hot lunch and you would have to pay for it. Told them under no certain terms that they would not be telling me what we can or can't bring.

Also, sent my son crackers,cheese, and homemade summer sausage for lunch(besides fruit and treat). One of the lunch room teachers was giving him a hard time because I did not pack him a sandwich. He tried telling her (he is a second grader) that the crackers was his bread she said "well next time tell your mom to pack you a sandwich".:hammer:


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Did you have a talk with the teacher to educate her?


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## sdnapier (Aug 13, 2010)

Wendy said:


> . I also never heard of being gluten intolerant until just the past year or so. Makes me wonder what the cause is??


I just read on "The Organic Prepper" that the cause is most likely the roundup they spray on wheat just prior to harvest. It makes it easier to harvest (less drag on the machines) and it makes the grains come off easier.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

I have never seen any farmer here spray roundup on wheat prior to harvest. You can't believe everything you read. I would think you would ruin any wheat you had driving over it spraying it.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

wes917, your family is the exception, not the rule. I applaud you for your time and dedication to your family.


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## sdnapier (Aug 13, 2010)

Wendy said:


> I have never seen any farmer here spray roundup on wheat prior to harvest. You can't believe everything you read. I would think you would ruin any wheat you had driving over it spraying it.



Wendy, try this link and let me know what you think. As I have a lot of wheat stored I would be glad to know it is roundup free. Living in the city I know no farmers to ask. Thanks, Sheryl


http://www.theorganicprepper.ca/may...t-maybe-youre-just-poison-intolerant-11152014


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

I personally don't believe that article. Unless it is put on with planes, you would ruin any wheat crop you had by running over it spraying it. Roundup kills green plants. When wheat is ready to harvest it is already pretty much dried out so I don't see what the point would be. I think it is a scare tactic more than anything. 

Of course anyone that actually farms can step in & tell me if I am wrong. I sure hope not as that is one of the dumbest things I ever read. I will ask some farmers I know, but I am sure they will think I'm crazy. I'll let you know if I come across anyone that has heard of this being done. I know it's not done around here. If that is a common practice in the US, my husband, who used to farm, has never heard of it.

I am now going to investigate farther because I can't believe this is a common practice.

I can't see how that would make the wheat release more seeds. It can't release more seeds than what it has. Man, I am so gonna talk to some farmers I know. 

I will get back with you on that.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

You don't spray wheat with roundup, especially right before harvest. If you use roundup on green wheat it will kill it, unless it is round up ready wheat, which is rare. My DH, when he could talk after I told him about this, suggested that those of think this is true should do some research on the sites of ag schools in wheat growing states. My DH is a retired engineer, now raises mostly hay. One of our friends raises 2400acres of wheat, so we are familiar with growing wheat.


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## happycat47111 (Nov 23, 2013)

I found this. http://www.realagriculture.com/2012/08/tips-for-pre-harvest-glyphosate-and-desiccation/

Trying to find a link to the USDA study. But it sounds like desiccation is a process that's widespread and commonly used.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Wendy said:


> I personally don't believe that article. Unless it is put on with planes, you would ruin any wheat crop you had by running over it spraying it. Roundup kills green plants. When wheat is ready to harvest it is already pretty much dried out so I don't see what the point would be. I think it is a scare tactic more than anything.
> 
> Of course anyone that actually farms can step in & tell me if I am wrong. I sure hope not as that is one of the dumbest things I ever read. I will ask some farmers I know, but I am sure they will think I'm crazy. I'll let you know if I come across anyone that has heard of this being done. I know it's not done around here. If that is a common practice in the US, my husband, who used to farm, has never heard of it.
> 
> ...


Wheat really isn't that tall. Farmers around here have a funny looking tractor made for spraying crops that has really thin tires and is high off the ground. High enough for a sports car to almost fit under. The farmers here do spray their wheat before harvest but I have no idea what they use.


Like this one.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

I've seen tractors like that around here. I know they use them for spraying, just don't know when and what.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

I've seen the high boys here too, but have never seen anyone spray wheat before harvest. Must be a western thing.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

Here's a snipet from the above link.



> 'Again, glyphosate is not a desiccant and will only speed up harvest by a few days or so vs. no glyphosate.'


So what would be the point of spraying with it if it only speeds up the process by a few days? Seems like a waste of fuel & chemicals to me. I have seen many farmers around here spray the fields after they harvest their wheat, but never before. 

Interesting.....................


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Wendy said:


> Here's a snipet from the above link.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the article is saying that instead of spraying with a glyphosate, use a desiccant to dry the plants out. Either way I don't know. I'll have to wait until Feb when archery practice starts to ask the guy I know that grows wheat. That's the only time I'll see him unless I happen to run into him at the grocery store. Since we both grow most of our own food that doesn't happen often.





This is what it says. _Be aware glyphosate is NOT a desiccant. It will kill the plants, yes, but it does very little to increase dry-down rates like Reglone will. A glyphosate application still means you could have 10 to 14 days or more until the proper harvest timing, whereas a four to seven day dry-down is more typical from a Reglone application._


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## sdnapier (Aug 13, 2010)

I found this info on glyphosate. It is a key ingredient in Round Up. The article talks about: Roundup and Glyphosate Toxicity Have Been Grossly Underestimated. 

s.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/30/glyphosate-toxicity.aspx

I sure hope you are right Wendy.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

I just find it amazing that this would even be done. My gosh, is there no end to dumping poison on food? Just to speed things up a few days. Really??


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

We live on the edge of one of the large rest wheat grow areas in the world. Our summers are dry and wheat dries well without spraying. To spray would be a waste of money and time. If farmers are trying to grow wheat in marginal climate they might try something to improve conditions, but their costs won't compete with the wheat grown here. Wheat prices have been falling like a rock so there is no reason to grow wheat in areas that are marginal, all you will do is lose money .


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## Ceilismom (Jul 16, 2011)

There is plenty of organically grown wheat in this country. If people who are not truly gluten intolerant (as shown by medical testing), but find that eating even organic wheat makes them ill, then it's probably not spraying that is the problem. Surely there must be at least one member here who has personal experience there, one way or another?


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Ceilismom said:


> There is plenty of organically grown wheat in this country. If people who are not truly gluten intolerant (as shown by medical testing), but find that eating even organic wheat makes them ill, then it's probably not spraying that is the problem. Surely there must be at least one member here who has personal experience there, one way or another?


Me. Doesn't matter if it's organically grown, picked by fairly-paid oompa loompas. If it's wheat - bad news. My dad has full-blown Celiac. I have what I would call 'diet celiac' meaning it's more of an intolerance for me..kind of watered down in the genes. Ours is definitely genetic as I'm positive his mother had it, though it wasn't known at the time or diagnosed but her symptoms lead me to believe that's what it was. 

But...I still eat everything else organic and don't want sprays or chemicals on or IN my food that I eat, as I've harped about time and time again.  While I'm sure there's people out there that have a reaction to chemicals + environmental toxins = stomach issues..sure. But I know for me, it doesn't matter if it's organic or doused with poison..it'd still give me a wicked stomachache because wheat just is not my buddy. Never was. Had I known this, I'd spent all of my school days without a stomachache until noon as my poor body tried to digest my breakfast of shredded wheat or homemade waffle. Duh.


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## beegrowing (Apr 1, 2014)

Wendy said:


> Our elementary school food was awesome!! Home cooked meals everyday that tasted like home cooked meals my mom made. The lunch lady still remembers me from then & that was 35 years ago.
> 
> Has anyone ever noticed how there are so many more allergies today? I think all of the processed, boxed garbage they feed the kids is the cause. I don't remember anyone in my class being allergic to anything. Now we have to have peanut free zones & kids seem to be allergic to everything. I also never heard of being gluten intolerant until just the past year or so. Makes me wonder what the cause is??


Here's an interesting explanationhttp://www.einkorn.com/einkorn-nutritional-facts/ for human wheat intolerance. I'd never heard of pesticides being blamed before....more like basic digestion problems...... not being poisoned.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

For some people gluten intolerance is a social disease. It's the cool thing to be at the moment. People who really have celiac disease get a bad rap. We call the socially gluten intolerant 'glutards' around here.


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## happycat47111 (Nov 23, 2013)

Ceilismom said:


> There is plenty of organically grown wheat in this country. If people who are not truly gluten intolerant (as shown by medical testing), but find that eating even organic wheat makes them ill, then it's probably not spraying that is the problem. Surely there must be at least one member here who has personal experience there, one way or another?


I'm going to try going with organic wheat and see if it does what regular does to me. We try to eat a minimally processed diet anyhow. So I grabbed some organic flour today, and I'll make some wraps, tortillas, naan, and regular bread here in the coming weeks. You don't know how much I hope this works. Gluten-free food has come a LONG way just in the last few years, but when you're in a hurry and not feeling like taking all day to make something, eating gluten free can be a pain in the backside. Unfortunately, for me the choice is eat gluten (and dairy) free or end up with bronchitis chronically. And I won't even mention the migrainesâ¦


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

The best way to decrease wheat issues is to soak the flour before you use it. Or take it a step or two further and soak the grains, sprout them for just a few hours, grind them and then use them. Grains, nuts, seeds, legumes all need to be "pre-digested" to cut the phytic acid that is an anti-nutrient before consuming. Basically, our bodies need that extra step before we eat it to prevent digestion issues. Preparing these foods for optimum nutrition is just one more thing that's been lost over the last several generations. And we are clearly paying a high price for quick and easy.


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

no one sprays wheat around here. the damage would be huge. it is planted in the fall very thick and cattle are allowed to graze it for a bit if it is not hurt by cold temp over the winter then allowed to grow and go for grain or in bad years it goes for cattle feed.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

PrettyPaisley said:


> The best way to decrease wheat issues is to soak the flour before you use it. Or take it a step or two further and soak the grains, sprout them for just a few hours, grind them and then use them. Grains, nuts, seeds, legumes all need to be "pre-digested" to cut the phytic acid that is an anti-nutrient before consuming. Basically, our bodies need that extra step before we eat it to prevent digestion issues. Preparing these foods for optimum nutrition is just one more thing that's been lost over the last several generations. And we are clearly paying a high price for quick and easy.


Yes. Sprouted wheat is something i can tolerate, http://www.foodforlife.com/ It's not cheap though so I usually just do without.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

never work 

even if the goverment knew what nutrition was and I assure you it doesn't it still wouldn't work 

now can I blow your paradigm a bit , fat is good thats right , bacon is good not bad , that granola bar is worse for you than the bacon , and I even like granola and it has it's place but commercial granola bars are a waste of time and worse for you than bacon , of course you can't eat just bacon 


also the economic collapse surrounding the food industries would be huge , when you enter a grocery store and shop the outside loop and leave 3/4 of the store is wasted space 

in the last several months we made some radical lifestyle diet changes , way beyond where most people are ever going to be willing to go , and it is working lost 23 pounds and still loosing , feeling better than I have in a while , heart burn that was almost daily is gone . but you got to want it , you have to own it and you have to cook for yourself 


NO sugar and No grain no fruit juices, no dried fruit, and especially no diet anything , , but yes to bacon , yes to eggs , yes steak , nuts , very much yes to vegetables of all sorts , raw fruit , full fat dairy

other than the sugar there is nothing wrong with grains like rice , wheat , corn , other than they usually contain far to much sugar and are far to often refined much to far into things that are not grains but sugars in disguise , and that my present daily activity level does not have me walking all day behind a plow or herding sheep

this of course leads to the how to prep with such a perishable diet , still working on that and have grains stored as storage food if needed 

then again Sugar has a long history of being a food of oppression hole colonies of slaves were kept to make sugar , still it is poor work and hard on those who work it , but it can be made and refined so cheap but at such great cost , it is used in everything , and it is an addiction. and breaking that addiction is hard


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

terri9630 said:


> Wheat really isn't that tall. Farmers around here have a funny looking tractor made for spraying crops that has really thin tires and is high off the ground. High enough for a sports car to almost fit under. The farmers here do spray their wheat before harvest but I have no idea what they use.
> 
> 
> Like this one.



(there should be a picture of a big John deere sprayer here but it didn't follow look up the page a bit to Terri9630 post )

around here they are also used for driving between the rows of corn to spray 

corn is that tall depending on the stage , often thse are applying feritlizer , herbicide , pesticide mixes to corn pre or slightly post imergence , they get used to spray everything they are expensive but work very fast hundreds of acres an hour if you have a tanker truck meet them on location and keep them full they can run from sun up to sun down spraying , most around here are owned by the co-op and they hire the spraying done , sharing the resource of expensive equipment and training in hazmat


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

You want to know how long it took me today to find a turkey that wasn't injected with sugar water? And it still has salt and 'spices' (whatever that vague term means) injected into it.

To heck with them all. I have a freezer full of home raised grass fed beef and this spring when I get chicks I am getting turkeys too. I'm just not participating in this ridiculous game anymore. I am disgusted by it. :yuck:


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Yes. It gets old, I agree. I have decided to feed my family a certain way and it takes more effort, more time and more money. But it's worth it.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

CraterCove said:


> You want to know how long it took me today to find a turkey that wasn't injected with sugar water? And it still has salt and 'spices' (whatever that vague term means) injected into it.
> 
> To heck with them all. I have a freezer full of home raised grass fed beef and this spring when I get chicks I am getting turkeys too. I'm just not participating in this ridiculous game anymore. I am disgusted by it. :yuck:


That's why we had to start raising my daughter's food. Her system simply can't tolerate all those additives. That eliminates almost all grocery store foods.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Have any of you people ever been in a wheat field? The rows are pretty close together, the only way to spray once it is growing well is from the air or to simply drive over the plants, at least in the fields around here. Crop dusters are expensive, and driving over your wheat toward the end of harvest will not only cost you for fuel and the chemicals , but a percentage of crop lost to driving on it. You would only do that if the other choice was losing the crop.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Molly Mckee said:


> Have any of you people ever been in a wheat field? The rows are pretty close together, the only way to spray once it is growing well is from the air or to simply drive over the plants, at least in the fields around here. Crop dusters are expensive, and driving over your wheat toward the end of harvest will not only cost you for fuel and the chemicals , but a percentage of crop lost to driving on it. You would only do that if the other choice was losing the crop.


Isn't this a different thread? When did wheat spraying come up here?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Post #56


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Oh yeah I remember now!


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## hsmom2four (Oct 13, 2008)

Ceilismom said:


> There is plenty of organically grown wheat in this country. If people who are not truly gluten intolerant (as shown by medical testing), but find that eating even organic wheat makes them ill, then it's probably not spraying that is the problem. Surely there must be at least one member here who has personal experience there, one way or another?



I have full on celiacs diagnosed with a biopsy. I can't have any wheat, rye or barley and it doesn't matter how it was grown. Also have to use only certified gluten free oats as most are cross contaminated in the fields and in processing. No food shortage or anything else could make me eat those things as I can NOT eat them. 

I have a friend who says her son was put on a gluten free diet and did ok but she tried him on organic wheat products and he did well with that. I think it's most likely something in processing or refining that is making it hard to digest for some people. My husband handles a lot of herbicide (not just round up) for his job and just the expense alone makes me think there aren't any farmers putting it on their wheat before harvest. The sun dries it out enough for free.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

hsmom2four said:


> I have full on celiacs diagnosed with a biopsy. I can't have any wheat, rye or barley and it doesn't matter how it was grown. Also have to use only certified gluten free oats as most are cross contaminated in the fields and in processing. No food shortage or anything else could make me eat those things as I can NOT eat them.
> 
> I have a friend who says her son was put on a gluten free diet and did ok but she tried him on organic wheat products and he did well with that. I think it's most likely something in processing or refining that is making it hard to digest for some people. My husband handles a lot of herbicide (not just round up) for his job and just the expense alone makes me think there aren't any farmers putting it on their wheat before harvest. The sun dries it out enough for free.


Guy I know got some seed wheat that is no longer grown it is some of the older wheat . Takes pains to be sure it don't get crossed with anything else . :thumb:


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

AngieM2 said:


> Did you have a talk with the teacher to educate her?



Na, they think me crazy enough. My son knows now he was right and that is what is important. These guys don't even know how to open a home canned jar.:yuck:


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

BTW, the processors do add stuff to wheat flour in the stores. That is why we have to grind our own.

Second, I have found that organic is no less treated than regular food. Just with different chemicals and a higher price tag. We still can not eat the Organic veggies in the stores.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

when they spray wheat , for whatever reason they are spraying it and I don't assume to know why ,yes they do just drive over it , loosing 2 12 inch wide stripes every 60 feet beets loosing what ever they are spraying for apparently 

I am not anti wheat , I did find it interesting that back when I was looking for a wheet grinder one of the best reviews and why I ultimatly shelled out the cash for the one I did was from a long time produce farmer who used it for 2 gravity bins of wheat a year, who always grew a field or two of wheat as part of his rotation went to buy his normal hard red and no mill had it , so he ordered it in from south dakota and planted in the fall the next summer he harvest and goes to the elevator to sell and is told they don't want real wheat any more , only this new low calorie GMO wheat that that was all the big commercial bread makers wanted , this was about 2002-2004 , I have heard of more problems with wheat in the last decade than ever before including some relatives who where healthy and have been diagnosed with cieliacs 

my theory is it was never a wheat issue but a issue with how it is modified , and what is done with it


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Ziptie said:


> BTW, the processors do add stuff to wheat flour in the stores. That is why we have to grind our own.
> 
> *Second, I have found that organic is no less treated than regular food. Just with different chemicals* and a higher price tag. We still can not eat the Organic veggies in the stores.



yes and china figured out how to grow organic fast when they just had to grow with organic chemicals and get a higher price


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Ziptie said:


> *BTW, the processors do add stuff to wheat flour in the stores. That is why we have to grind our own.*
> 
> Second, I have found that organic is no less treated than regular food. Just with different chemicals and a higher price tag. We still can not eat the Organic veggies in the stores.


It's the same for raw meat. Read the label on raw chicken. It's "chicken in solution". Then the "solution" is all un pronounceable words.


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## BadFordRanger (Apr 26, 2014)

terri9630 said:


> Thoughts?? If they set up a "national food policy" and it doesn't work like they think then what?
> 
> The food system and the diet it&#8217;s created have caused incalculable damage to the health of our people and our land, water and air. If a foreign power were to do such harm, we&#8217;d regard it as a threat to national security, if not an act of war, and the government would formulate a comprehensive plan and marshal resources to combat it. (The administration even named an Ebola czar to respond to a disease that threatens few Americans.) So when hundreds of thousands of annual deaths are preventable &#8212; as the deaths from the chronic diseases linked to the modern American way of eating surely are &#8212; preventing those needless deaths is a national priority.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...37f-11e4-836c-83bc4f26eb67_story.html?hpid=z2


Please allow me to see if I have got things right here. 
You are suggesting that "We, the people" should tell "Them, the back stabbing gubbernuts" to add even more laws telling us what we can, can't, should, or should not do, in the name of saving lives? 

Darling, I have news for you. There is has never been, and will never be a needless death on this planet. 
There are only one thing that is guaranteed to a person in life, and that guarantee is that if are were born, you are going to die. At least your body will die and your life, as you know it, will cease to exist. 
When we all die is only known to God and Jesus Christ, but we will not die one split second before it is God's time for us to do so as an individual. 
I have faced death more than once, and I'll just say that you know when you have a brush with it. There is no mistake whatsoever when it happens. 
I am not sure about you, but I certainly do not need any jerk in a darned suit and tie, living a life off the sweat of my back trying to tell me what to eat. I would however appreciate the heck out of it, if the jerks would keep their nose the heck out of the way food is grown, if they are going to allow the chickens that give us the eggs we eat to be grown in a single square foot cage or so from birth to death with out ever even getting out to stretch their legs an hour a day. 
I do, however know the difference in large scale egg production eggs and the eggs that the chickens that I raised before the city decided my way was worse than the way the big farmers do it. 

No thank you. I will do without the extra helping of laws, rules and regulations if you don't mind, and might I suggest that you do the same. 

Godspeed

Ranger


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

BadFordRanger said:


> Please allow me to see if I have got things right here.
> You are suggesting that "We, the people" should tell "Them, the back stabbing gubbernuts" to add even more laws telling us what we can, can't, should, or should not do, in the name of saving lives?
> 
> Darling, I have news for you. There is has never been, and will never be a needless death on this planet.
> ...



Just in case you didn't get it.... I didn't write the article. Just found and posted it. I eat what I want, when I want.


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## Sunbee (Sep 30, 2008)

Reading the article, I think the authors make a good point. Federal subsidies of agriculture and the food industry are a problem. I don't see a good reason for the federal government to subsidize agriculture. Tariffs I can see: as long as other countries have laws different from ours about pay and safety, tariffs make sense.  Subsidies don't. Especially, as the article authors pointed out, subsidizing HFCS on the one hand and paying for diabetes treatment on the other.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

:ashamed: I pack my son's lunch every day for school except for the one Friday a month they serve pizza from Papa John's it is his treat and we are a dual income home- it can be done- but I also know that most dual income homes don't do this- but - everyday as a personal living choice I make the time to pack his lunch- and one for me and DH and I pack our breakfasts too- DH gets homemade yogurt- with homemade granola and a dollop of homemade jam- and his coffee- and I have cottage cheese 

it can be done- but - the majority of people that even know that I do this think I am insane when I could buy lunches and breakfasts everyday- but it can be done....I try to explain the savings and the healthiness to people that think I am nuts LOL- but most don't get it- 




Danaus29 said:


> Give a child a choice between a plain apple and a dish of apple cobbler and most will take the apple cobbler. Blueberry pie with ice cream or a bowl of plain blueberries, the child will usually take the pie. Vegetable soup with a little meat or a plain salad, most will take the soup, especially if it smells good. That is the entire problem. Schools don't "cook" anymore. They import packaged meals which are reheated on site. I saw the changes when my kids were in elementary school. Our school did away with their "kitchen" and cooks just to save a few bucks. Real meals are more labor intensive than setting out a tray of chicken nuggets and a box of whole apples. Just think about it, you pay a couple bucks for your child's lunch. The lunch program is required to be self supporting. That couple dollars must cover; equipment, electric, and personnel. We do it at home without thinking about it but there is a lot of work involved in preparing a meal. From cleaning the produce to washing the dishes and mopping the floors after involves quite a bit of time. Unfortunately the public school system does not value nutritious lunches more than the bottom dollar. But if schools did offer well prepared lunches, they would cost quite a bit more. Parents are already complaining about the cost of $2 a day to feed their child. They sure won't accept paying the $5 that well prepared meals would actually cost. The only alternative is for parents to fix the meals themselves. Not going to happen in the day of single parent or dual income households.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Becka, you are my clone.. we pack lunches the night before which saves time. The other reason my kids like bringing a bag lunch is they hate to wait in line. This way they get to sit right down and start eating.  We crunched the numbers long ago and it makes such good financial sense (plus better food).

p.s. everyone at work is jealous of my SOs food. Just wait until he starts bringing in eggs from our own chickens. They think we live on a farm..lol. No, the suburbs.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

My husband gets a home packed lunch everyday. It's really helped him with weight management. Not going out to eat has also saved significant bucks.

Honestly, at home, since I work here and Homeschool all the kids they kind of graze throughout the day. They want something to eat there is a measure of different foods they can get themselves and they ask me for anything else. They are so active all the time and growing so nicely I figure the best way for them to learn to eat is to learn to pay attention to their own signals for hungry and full instead of the traditional starve until set meal time and then clean your plate no matter what.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

CraterCove said:


> My husband gets a home packed lunch everyday. It's really helped him with weight management. Not going out to eat has also saved significant bucks.
> 
> Honestly, at home, since I work here and Homeschool all the kids they kind of graze throughout the day. They want something to eat there is a measure of different foods they can get themselves and they ask me for anything else. They are so active all the time and growing so nicely I figure the best way for them to learn to eat is to learn to pay attention to their own signals for hungry and full instead of the traditional starve until set meal time and then clean your plate no matter what.


I am a grazer too- so I usually pack snacks- little containers of this and that- cause I am a garbage gut and will eat stuffed cabbage at 10 am LOL- DH likes a normal lunch- I would starve with out my cottage cheese at 9 - some pickles and cheese at 10:30 am.. a cup of homemade tomato soup at 12:30.. some pretzels at 1pm .. lol then an apple...


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

Well, it seems the Healthy, Hunger Free Kids Act isn't going over so well in the schools.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/11/teens-gag-on-obama-lunches-tweet-pics-to-thanksmichelleobama/


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

What was that supposed to be? It didn't look very appetizing.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

As I recall they said it was supposed to be spanish rice. It looks pre-masticated to me.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

rkintn said:


> Well, it seems the Healthy, Hunger Free Kids Act isn't going over so well in the schools.
> 
> http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/11/teens-gag-on-obama-lunches-tweet-pics-to-thanksmichelleobama/





dizzy said:


> What was that supposed to be? It didn't look very appetizing.





CraterCove said:


> As I recall they said it was supposed to be spanish rice. It looks pre-masticated to me.




trial runs and training of docile work force fed on soylent green in the future.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

LOve it Elk!


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