# Advice for starting small dairy



## FlowerFieldFarm (Feb 5, 2011)

Other than not to :nono:

I am new here... introduced myself on GC. I live on my husband's family's place in western NE. We have one Jersey milk cow(not our first though) for our family, plus pigs, chickens, bee's, etc. 

I sold veggies and eggs at the farmers market last year, and everyone wants milk and butter. The closest dairy I know of is over 150 miles away. I put an ad on our local farm listing page letting people know that we were thinking of milking 10 cows and bringing pasteurized milk, cream, and butter to the market, as well as making cheese. We got a really great response, but most have asked if they could buy the milk raw instead. Since a pasteurizer/bottler combo is around $12,000 we have decided to get 2-3 more cows this year, and sell raw milk off of the farm (which is legal here). Then we can slowly grow the herd witgh home raised heifers and next spring I should be able to afford the equipement to pasteurize as well. I am also planning to make 3 aged cheeses(cheddar, bleu, and parmeasan) using kefir as the culture. 

Just looking for advice from other who have done this and have experience. We are looking at 4 cows this week, 2 jerseys for $1400 ea, or two swiss/guernsey crossbred 1st calf heifers for $1500 ea. I have milked both swiss, jersey, and holstein, and really do like the amount of cream I get from the jerseys. Does anyone have experience with the swiss crosses? My FIL really thinks those would be better. 

Thanks
Rylee
http://flowerfieldfarm.blogspot.com/


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## rancher1913 (Dec 5, 2008)

unless you have a market for the milk you will lose your but. dairy coops only buy from members and good luck getting a membership. if you can make cheese or ice cream and direct sell you stand a chance but get your ducks in a row over selling the end product before you invest in the cows.


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## FlowerFieldFarm (Feb 5, 2011)

Oh sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. There are no dairy coops or any milk trucks in our area to pick up milk. We are in Western Nebraska, about 10 miles from the Wyoming border. All the milk will be direct marketed to customers, first at the farm only, then later we will sell pasteuized milk at our farmers market and the one in Cheyenne WY. The cheese can be sold online, but it won't be available for a while. We offered 10 'CowShareAgreements' this year to 'pre'sell' some of the milk about 2 weeks ago, and have sold half of them already. Due to the fact we have no competition as of yet, I think we can sell all that we can produce. I just don't have much dairy experience beyone our home milk system for our family and I have 4 kids 5 and under so can't do an internship anywheres.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I hesitate to say any breed is better over another. Of course, jerseys are my love....but that doesn't mean all jerseys are better than a certain swiss/guernsey cross. I'd look at the cows you have the options on and see which of them are the better cows. One of the swiss cross cows might be better than one of the jerseys. Brown swiss are larger than either jersey's or guernseys and are very nice cows. I would love to have a guernsey milk cow. Some think they are not as hardy as other breeds. Holsteins give a lot of milk but sometimes have to be fed quite a bit to get them to produce that well. There are so many exceptions to the standards in cattle that I think it's best to judge a cow by it's individual performance. 

I can't help you with setting up your dairy. Maybe you should start slowly- get two cows and those milk shares sold. See how it goes and what you can do to tweek your system to make it work as efficiently as possible. See what the profits actually are. Then sell some more shares and add a cow.... then another. Rather than buying them all at once and possibly having customers decide they can't afford the milk. My fear would be getting it all set up and having customers back out - leaving you with a lot of cheese making very suddenly. 

Will you be doing the milking or DH? With kids, it's hard to be the milker and the cook.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Make sure of the state laws concerning such operations. If you are selling milk and cheese straight to the customer, your premises will probably have to be up to code and will be inspected regularly. Check with your state officials to be sure what kind of operation you need. It will be very expensive, I can promise you that. 
It may be legal to sell raw milk now, but that won't keep you from being charged with selling milk or cheese that is tainted. Check out the news on the raid on Morningland Dairy.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Make sure you have liability insurance. Don't want to lose the farm if someone gets sick from drinking raw milk!


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## Jay (Feb 5, 2008)

It is indeed legal in Nebraska--BUT customers have to come to the farm to pick it up, NO delivering and NO advertising.

If you aren't selling it raw, then you fall under the same laws as a bottling plant (and dairy). I'd stick with the raw milk myself....let the customers "cook" it at home if they want it that way.

As for the cows, the crosses will be bigger and more than likely eat more. I'd sell cowshares and let the members help pay for the cows and upkeep just like a share was designed to do.

Look up FTCLDF (Farm To Consumer Legal Defense Fund) and join. And yes, look up what they've done to Morningland Dairy in MO for an eyeopener.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Selling direct to customer is the way to go with food of any sort these days. I would start with one cow though.

I've had people drive an hour to pick up raw goat milk. Keep healthy animals and let them range like they are supposed to, stay modest on the amount of grain you feed and be clean about it.


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## FlowerFieldFarm (Feb 5, 2011)

Yes, we already have the one jersey, Daisy. We live on the in-laws place along with two other brothers, so it takes all of her milk just to feed the family. I think I will add two more this year, and then save back replacement heifers to build the herd. I have ruled out holsteins 100%, but am looking at brown swiss for the quantity they product.
Does anyone here have any experience sucessfully crossbreeding dairy cows? I am going AI my shorthorn (she's out with the beef herd) and a few of my beef cows to Normande bulls and see what the milk is like.
In Nebraska, if I am selling the milk raw, off the farm, it exempts me from all of the regulations, but to make cheese doesn't. So we are going to do the shares this year, get the cheese recipes down pat(plents of hogs to eat any mistakess) and get the building up to code for next year. I will go ahead and get a milker this year as it will be needed next year anyway. 

As far as insurance, do I look for a farm liability policy or is there something more food specific?


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

I think you are going to need "product" liability. This may seem like a great idea while you are milking one cow, but believe me, when it comes to milking several cows and keeping them healthy and producing, it gets to be a tedious and not very cost effective chore. That and state regualtions is why so many small dairymen have folded up.


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

My advice is make sure you charge enough for the product. I'd let people know what you will be charging before hand to find out how many of them are really interested in keeping on, too. If you buy a springer for 1500 and then have to sell her the next year, she might not bring as much. You don't want to lose on producing the milk and then on the cow later on if you have to sell out. 

It's easy for people to say they'd buy the raw milk, but when push comes to shove, will they buy it for the price you need to charge? 

Good luck!


Jennifer


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

FlowerField,
I realize you're waaaay out of dairy country, but those prices for the cows you mentioned are way above the market average right now. If you're going to get three or four cows at once, you might be able to pay freight on them, buy them from far off, and still save money over those prices. (Not that I think milk cows aren't worth that much)

As far as starting up from scratch and selling milk to direct market customers, I think it's a great idea but I'd start with one-two cows and make sure I had a list of customers waiting for milk before I bought more. You'd be surprised of the amount of people who say, "I wish I could find some raw milk to buy." that won't make the drive out to your house to get it out of "inconvenience". While they are at the grocery store getting everything else they bite the bullet and grab a jug of milk to save time and gas.


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## FlowerFieldFarm (Feb 5, 2011)

Yes that makes sense. I have started out at $4/gallon, and as long as we sell enough that shouldn't need to increase too much. I have let everyone know up front what the price will be - no one has complained. Once we are set up, a gal in the next town would like to buy milk to make cheese with as she already makes goat cheese, but can't get milk anywhere. Any extra milk will go to the freezer for us or a calf then to the hogs. I have 3 hereford sows and a boar, and the brothers have 3.

The girls will be grazing during the day, and receiving alfalfa pellets topped with organic wheat(that we raise). We do all of our own vet work except c-sections... 

Luckily, we are not dependent on this for our only source of income. We have a semi truck, lease wheat ground, and have a growing beef herd, and feed out about 50 steers through the winter. We are just trying to set up a small scale diversified farm that can pay it's own way and feed us and some of our extended family. 

I will be doing the milking, so even if he is gone, it won't be a problem.


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## barefootflowers (Jun 3, 2010)

FlowerField,
It sounds like you have put lots of thought into this. I'm excited for you- & I'm working on adding milking cows to our small family farm too. We serve the Portland Oregon area, and raw milk out here goes for $10-$11 per gallon. As far as driving distance goes, the raw milk farm I buy from is a 40 minute trip one way. I'm sure you've already researched your pricing, but I'd hate to see you sell yourself short. People will pay more for a quality product, especially one that is not readily available in your area. It's hard to increase a price once you've already attracted a following. When we first started selling eggs & meat we low-balled ourselves because we were worried that we wouldn't be able to sell enough. We knew what our break-even point was, but didn't allow very much of a profit at first. Once we saw that we really could sell enough to make a comfortable profit it was hard to increase our pricing on regulars. Like I said, you probably already know what your milk can sell for, but I just I'd throw my experience out there. Keep us posted on how it goes- Best wishes for a successful small dairy!


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

I cannot emphasize this enough... The local county extension office is a great resource for information and help in getting your operations up to 'code' and legit. They even know about grant programs and subsidies that can help you get your operation off the ground.


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## matt_man (Feb 11, 2006)

Personally $4 a gallon is too cheap. You can buy a gallon of crappy dead store milk for $4. You have a premium product.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I have been waiting to see what others have said before I put my 2 cents worth in. First of all welcome to HT, Second of all good luck with your future plans. I also think you need to start small and work up to expantion, I (long story short) have to many cows, I do the same thing you are talking about doing. I produce way more milk than I can sell, so we also have piggers around to feed the extra. We had no problem raising our price on the milk once people get a taste of it, but don`t over price. As far as insurance, liability should be ok for now, or should I say till something happens. Then any company will drop you like a hot potato after the first claim. I also would suggest you get a milker ASAP, I don`t feel hand milked milk should be sold, just a sanitary thing I guess. And as far as Extension agents go, some aien`t worth the degree they got, mine sends people to me when it comes to small farm help, most are geared for large scale corporatate farming. So feel them out first to see if they could maybe help you. Now the cows you are looking at, brown swiss are fine, guernsey are ok, little stubborn, and jersey is our choice. I do have one guernsey/jersey cross, and one swiss/jersey cross. Both are ok cows, but are not the cows my purebreds are. Most swiss cows are pretty laid back and calm, they will be good cows for you , but not the butterfat in the milk like the jersey. Have anymore questions, just ask. > Thanks Marc


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## FlowerFieldFarm (Feb 5, 2011)

Thanks Marc - I was hoping to get some replys from people that are already doing this! That helps a ton. I thought it would be better to get a full custmomer list and possibly a waiting list before upping my prices. 

The cows made their choice for me. I went to look at the jerseys today. They weren't in the best of shape, bad udders, and curled toes. I picked the swiss. One is a purebred, one is a swiss/guernsey cross, both are heifers and very gentle. I am considering AI'ing them to a jersey bull...

Thanks again for the replies! Keep 'em coming.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

When all my milkers are fresh I sell raw milk here at the farm if the customer base is there. When the milk overwhelms me, I always try to keep a jersey heifer or two, or three, or four to raise with the excess product. Just can't stand to go to a salebarn and see a big brown eyed jersey heifer and not try to buy her. It's one of my weaknesses I guess.


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## Double diamond (Jan 30, 2013)

How will you be milking by hand or machine?


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

We have a brown Swiss (X?), a pure Jersey, and a mystery mutt. All three pretty much peg the same line in the jar with the cream level. The Jersey's milk is a bit more yellowish, and the swiss's is much whiter. The mystery mutt's is right in between. For the record, she is the cow that I wouldn't sell for a million bucks. It's like drinking a milkshake. It is a very limited sampling, but she has me seeing the virtues of X breeds.

The market for direct to consumer raw milk is pretty strong in the KCMO area. Prices are generally $4-5 per gallon+. I know of an artisan cheese dairy in Pleasonton, KS that is graded which allows them to sell thru grocery stores and other outlets. I would venture to say that the "grade A so they can sell cheese" is a linchpin to their commercial strategy. I would not hazard to guess if they are making any money. I hope so, though. Their cheese is fantastic and they are super nice people.

ETA: OLD THREAD ALERT!! And with that, I'm off to bed...


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

This thread is a little old but I thought I would add to it.
I know of a small dairy in far Northern Utah that is making a good run at producing signature cheeses. I believe they began in 2003.
You may be able to contact these folks to draw some from thier experience.
The good thing about this operation is that along with the cheese production, they are taking advantage of the agritourism industry also. I can see many simularities with what you are wanting to do and things that your operation could capitalize on.
Beginning with cheese production may be a better place to start. The product has a better shelf life and sells for increasing prices as it ages.
I also think that getting someone involved that can help with a detailed marketing plan would be an advantage in the long term.
Look up rockhillcheese.com


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

OOPs.. old thread.. my thought was of no use..


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

This is an old thread and the op hasn't been on in over a year. It would be interesting to know how she did. Hopefully sucess, and little children, is the reason for no updates.


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

Personally I get sticker shock every time I see what people charge and get for a gallon of raw milk, goat or cow. But if they can get it, more power to them. 

I have always been a believer in Jersey cows. A bit smaller in over all size, they do eat some less and the good ones give as much milk as the larger breeds. 

There are a couple jersey cows in our near future for milk and raising calves,


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## FlowerFieldFarm (Feb 5, 2011)

UPDATE 

Hi everyone... I still read here quite a bit, as well as the family cow forum and HT pigs forum. Right now we have 11 dairy cow including this years 2 heifers. We did buy the swiss and swiss x guernsey I looked at that week, as well as a guernsey x black Angus. We do not have the swiss crosses any more, they both freshened with blind quarters that I nor the vet could fix. 
Most of our herd is jerser and jersey cross. My best milker right now is a roan jersey x normande first calf heifer. She really maintains condition in our rugged environment and still puts out the most milk. Having had 2 dairy bulls on the place over the last year, any future bulls will be in a can! Breeding plans for the next two years are the Bavarian Fleckvieh bulls Holzmichl and Rosskur. Then our much calmer black bull will clean up after 2 AI services.
We are milking with an old Surge RV2 pump my husband rebuilt and the 70lb SS Parts Dept milker. I love it, and he even likes milking now.
We tried selling raw milk for one whole year. Had a few really good customers, but waiting for people to show up was taking up too much time I could have spent working or improving things!
Right now we have 9 sows and their piglets and 12 calves... getting a new set of calves in the next week or two. 
This business has to stay debt free and cash flow itself so it is taking longer than I 'want' it to, but we are getting there. By the time our youngest (due in April) is born, I hope to be making cheese with 1/2 the milk of 24 cows, feeding 50-100 calves yearly, and raising finished hogs on the whey and hay the cow/calves don't eat.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

I milked 2 jerseys, a guernsey and a holstein x jersey and loved the milk of each one of them for different reasons. the jerseys gave more butterfat and the butter was excellent  one jersey kept the fat for her calf (yes, cows can keep the fat for the calves and give you skimmed milk- which had amazing selling appeal) the guernsey gave lovely golden milk, which appealed to some people. the holstein x gave lovely white milk which had appeal to some people. in TN it is illegal to sell milk off the farm so i sold cow shares. some would state the breed of cow they wanted milk from. the established breeds are good enough for the niche dairy. you don't have to reinvent the cow. 

it sounds like you already have a good body of knowledge so i will say that i learned i liked the smaller jersey and guernseys to the larger holstein or swiss. working alone, i just like the smaller size better for handling, vetting, freshening, shelter, etc. i also liked their docile temperaments. i left the calves on them; didn't have a lot of customers to start. so the larger sized cows give more milk but seems like they give more milk because they are larger and they eat more. i've read the jersey actually gives the most milk based on body size. but dunno if that is correct.

it takes a while to get the customer base going. i didn't hang in there for the good customers to add up- i worried about liability with raw milk. people would come without a cooler... sometimes their jars didn't look sparkling clean and i would wash them even though i had stated i wouldn't. some but to clabber the milk and i worried about that. 

look into a small, expandable line system from the start if you can afford it. the buckets won't work out for three cows that don't have calves on them. you'll have to stop milking, dump the milk in a cooling tank, clean bucket, and start milking again.

being small has great advantages too. you can take a personal approach to the cows, keep them clean and healthy and producing a healthier product. you don't have the factory line mentality of speed, speed, speed and sucking the life out of your cows for extra pennies. it is a lovely way of life. the 7 day a week schedule didn't bother me because i loved what i was doing but it was expensive and i couldn't hold the line until breaking even, which i didn't do. think it would have taken about 5- 7 years to develop the customer base. in my neck of the woods people didn't want to pay $12/ gallon. I got a little over what store bought milk puss sold for and butter was not worth it. yet my cows were vetted and tested, fed well and treated well so it was a losing proposition. if i had to do over, which i still dream of, i wouldn't sell for less than $10/ gal. i would rather raise pigs than sell for less. the small farmer has to stand beside her superior product and expect to receive its worth on its own merit and not competing against super walmart prices. there is a demand for excellence - it is just a long timeline. best wishes for you.


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## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

Abe, I know Pleasanton well, used to live close to there. That dirt road you live on wouldn't be in the Worland area would it? There used to be a real old time honky tonk there that I frequented many, many moons ago.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

65284 said:


> Abe, I know Pleasanton well, used to live close to there. That dirt road you live on wouldn't be in the Worland area would it? There used to be a real old time honky tonk there that I frequented many, many moons ago.


No, I'm up north an hour or two, near the Cass/Bates county line.


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