# An odd, possibly useful find-Any idea what it might be?



## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

Well we were working on clearing the woods near the house for an additional garden area and a goat pasture and ran across what we thought was an old stone fence buried in the dirt and downed trees. After clearing half of the trees and digging we realized we may have found an old cellar!! I have no idea how to find out what this is, or if we could possibly restore it and use it ourselves as a storm cellar or storage. It appears to be really old, and the farthest the tax records go back is 1999, when the current house was built. The neighbors told me the only house they knew of on the property was in the neighbors yard (this was part of a large farm in the 1800's-early-mid 1900's. I've taken some pics so hopefully someone will know what it is- It is about 20 feet long and 3 feet or so wide, and is made of old stone and mortar. The walls have bolts embedded in the top of the wall, so I was thinking it may have once been bolted to a floor. Apparently someone had previously filled it with dirt on one end and trash on the other but the middle appears to be at least 6-8 feet deep. These are pictures of it-(Sorry for the links, it never let's me upload the actual images from the web, I get an error message saying I don't have permission)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8493978038/in/photostream







http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8493967244/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8493965480/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8492876711/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8493978038/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8492863891/in/photostream























Any ideas on what it is, how to get more info on it, or how it can be used for survival purposes? It doesn't appear to have any steps, I guess they were wood that rotted away...


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Sounds like an old cistern to me.


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## katy (Feb 15, 2010)

I am not seeing any pics nor links to same. Even so, "Underground Railroad" ? purely guessing, I've never seen pics of them.


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## plowhand (Aug 14, 2005)

It sound like a dipping vat for cattle. There was one on my uncles farm. They filled the vat with pesticide for ticks and made the cows swim through it. They built them for sheep too.

If it has sloped floors at each end....can't see pictures to tell.


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

Sorry folks, I had to load the links to the pictures, forum doesn't want me to post images


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

In researching the history of my ranch, I found the county recorder (records land records) archives to be the best resource. I found records going back to 1865 for my ranch.

I had to ask about the archives. They weren't housed in the same place as the recorders office.

You may find that there was an old house where this thing is.


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## Vic (Oct 8, 2002)

My first thought was a dipping vat also.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Common Tator said:


> In researching the history of my ranch, I found the county recorder (records land records) archives to be the best resource. I found records going back to 1865 for my ranch.
> 
> I had to ask about the archives. They weren't housed in the same place as the recorders office.
> 
> You may find that there was an old house where this thing is.


This is what I was going to suggest, too. The library or courthouse might also have records of previous owners.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

The end appears to be vertical so I don't think it's a dipping vat. I wonder if it could be the foundation for a sawmill, sorghum press, etc?


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

I do hope it isn't an old vat, I was just reading up on them and it says the arsenic and DDT used in them is super toxic to the ground and water for years afterwards-I definitely need to figure out what it is now-we are on a well and we grow alot of our fresh veggies and fruit. It sits near the top of a hill, in our backyard- one side does have a rock slab but it appears to have broken off of another rock on the site. Really a strange find, we've been looking for the old well and ended up finding this while we were cleaning up the area. It does have at least 4 bolts embedded in the top of it on one side, unsure if the bolts are located throughout due to all the tree debris covering most of it. If this is an old vat can it be used for anything? Could the area be grazed by goats if there is arsenic?


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## RebelDigger (Aug 5, 2010)

Saw pit? The kind used when two men used a crosscut saw to split a timber. One guy in the pit, the other stood on the timber that laid across the pit?


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## Nature_Lover (Feb 6, 2005)

It looks like an old springhead to me.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

It reminds me of steps leading down to a cellar. Have you finished digging it out yet?


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

No we haven't finished digging it out yet, it is very deep, I did find what appears to be an old broken jar in there, on the side that isn't covered with trash. There doesn't appear to be any steps on either side so far, but I suspect if they were anything but stone they would be long rotted away by now. The bolts on the top are what is confusing me, they must have been attached to something but I have no idea what.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

Talk to your local health department and see if they or anyone else (?water dept) would test a soil sample for dip residue. In my area, they will test any water sample for $25 and if it's your only source, they will test it for free. They only test for a certain number of things, but some is better than none.

Before you use it, put a little pressure on the walls and see if they bow or move. Also take a look at draininage the next time you have a good rain.

Regarding the records, check to see if your county historical society has any info about former owners of the larger property. There might be a descendant still living who could say, "yeah, I remember that from when I was a kid, it was a ....".

Go slow clearing the trash. Any paper trash might include a name. Look for recyclables, some metals that weren't worth keeping in the past are well worth recycling now. Remember that even stuff from the 1950's is now collectible, such as old tin containers, etc. Good luck.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

We have something like that in our sheep pasture. But it does not make a pit,it is flat. It has bolts, I just assumed walls were bolted to the cement.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Might make a good fallout shelter, root cellar or storm shelter.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Years and years and years back, before people started using old barrels, they would dig holes like that, line both sides with hedge wood or other worthless wood, and use it as a septic tank. They did the same thing to use as a cistern, but they usually had concrete to line them?


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## Horse Fork Farm (Jan 3, 2006)

i bet if you go dig at the opposite end from what looks like the steps, you will find walls for a small building that went along with the original house. Thinking wash house, cellar, bunk house for boys etc.... the bolts might have been holding on the door for the storm cellar???? VERY INTERESTING!!!


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## dkhern (Nov 30, 2012)

i vote for dipping vat. one end should be vertical. the other should be slanted and may have cleats formed in bottom. jump them in and they swim thru and walk up the other end. dont know for sure what they used for chemicals but you might want to get stuff tested.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Very cool, take your time and excavate carefully. Beg, borrow or steal a metal detector to guide you.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Could be a cooling pit for milk cans? We have one, the well is beside and you would fill the vat with the can in to cool them then drain the water out and replace with cold, about once a day


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

Also it does appear to be coated with a concrete type substance, from close up it appears very old, it looks like the rocks were hand hewn, there are chisel looking marks on it. We've dug down 3 feet so far on the side that was buried in the dirt, the trash side is filled with loads of broken jars and pottery so it will be slower going on that side. The trash side is edged by small stones, but still haven't found any stairs so far...


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

If it dosen't have a cement floor under all that dirt,maybe its a foundation for a corn crib. They are usally pretty narrow on the bottem. I can imagine there is alot of junk arround it,people did that back then.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

ladybug said:


> Also it does appear to be coated with a concrete type substance, from close up it appears very old, it looks like the rocks were hand hewn, there are chisel looking marks on it. We've dug down 3 feet so far on the side that was buried in the dirt, the trash side is filled with loads of broken jars and pottery so it will be slower going on that side. The trash side is edged by small stones, but still haven't found any stairs so far...


ok, enough said. Watch this and tell me it isn't this:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-MJUSXyYKs[/ame]


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Can you go to your county historical society and see if they have any records about your place?

Our historical society had records about my cemetary dating back over 150 years. Maybe you can learn more there. Any way it is a cool find and looks to date back further that DDT or any other chemical use.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Apologies to any who were watching the first link I had posted above. It turned out to be an incomplete link so I just now replaced it with the proper link for viewing this program from the History channel via youtube.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

If you're finding old jars and broken pottery, you may have found an outhouse pit. Believe it or not, people are intentionally digging them up now, because people used to throw their trash in them.

Here is one of many stories that came up when I googled "digging up outhouses".

http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/731974_Old-outhouses-yield-historical-treasures.html


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

Thank you for sharing SoulSurvivor, that video was super neat! I had no idea that they had been investigating a Mayan link here, we live right in the heart of where the Lower Creek nation was, the whole area has all kinds of artifacts and buildings. I don't think our site is old enough, but some of those buildings in the video seemed in very good shape for the age of the structures.


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## katy (Feb 15, 2010)

SoulSurvivor, that video was great and I hadn't heard about any possible connection either. What I do remember is reading a book recently that discussed U.S. treatment of and removal of native americans from prime agricultural land in the south. Will have to find name of book, as it did mention the Creeks as being one of the longest hold-outs. Thank you for sharing.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

ladybug said:


> Thank you for sharing SoulSurvivor, that video was super neat! I had no idea that they had been investigating a Mayan link here, we live right in the heart of where the Lower Creek nation was, the whole area has all kinds of artifacts and buildings. I don't think our site is old enough, but some of those buildings in the video seemed in very good shape for the age of the structures.


There are other shows on youtube that make up a season of episodes for America Unearthed. You can go to the youtube site and type in America Unearthed to bring up most of the links. Click on what interests you. I've watched all of the shows at least once. 

ladybug, what you have looks like the land terracing that was shown on that video. It also said in the video that they used stucco on some of those terraces. If it was me I'd be trying to get someone out there to verify it as old or not. Then again I can understand the need to not be too public about it if your privacy would be in jeopardy.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

katy said:


> SoulSurvivor, that video was great and I hadn't heard about any possible connection either. What I do remember is reading a book recently that discussed U.S. treatment of and removal of native americans from prime agricultural land in the south. Will have to find name of book, as it did mention the Creeks as being one of the longest hold-outs. Thank you for sharing.


You're welcome and I'm glad there's some interest in this subject.


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## fordson major (Jul 12, 2003)

word of caution, watch out for old wells! if there was a habitation, there will likly be one.


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

Well I spent a few hours at the local court clerks office and found a friendly local surveyor that looked up the property back to 1948 for me, now I just have to pick up where I left off on Monday morning. I did find out that there was nothing but a horse field here in 1948-no houses at all, the man I spoke with grew up on the main road here. So it is definitely older than the 40's but I kinda knew it had to be. I'm hoping it might be useful again as a storm cellar, provided it isn't a latrine pit or an old cattle vat  Thanks for all of the help and if you guys think of anything else please keep the ideas coming


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Outhouse pits were just a hole in the ground. They needed to be moved often. I highly doubt anyone would put that kind of effort in for a privy.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Open on both ends, maybe a springhouse? Icehouse?

Mon


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## blaundee (Nov 3, 2012)

Keep us posted, I'm very intrigued


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## dkhern (Nov 30, 2012)

lb looked at pic again. the concrete, bolts w/square nuts looks early 1900's. op said it look 6-8' deep which would fit a horse dipping vat. they were deeper than for cattle. this would also fit your info for the late 40's. be careful they filled these thing with everything that would not burn. rock, glass, metal, everything. might even find old glass ware of value


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

I tend to go with dipping vat myself. That was a LOT of labor to build that, certainly looks like old weathered concrete sides.


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

There's also small stones embedded in the concrete too, we've also found old bricks that aren't like the modern ones, they appear to be made completely from red clay and are larger than standard bricks. I'm going to try to get up to the court tomorrow for more information on the property. It appears so far the property was passed down 3 or 4 generations of family before it was sold to developers to make into lots- still haven't found any information on the previous residence that was on the property.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Old Bricks. At one time my dad started collecting old bricks with names imprinted on them. A heavy Hobby.


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