# Go to the hospital, or stay far, far away?



## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

There were many losses out of the CoV year of 2020; one thing that really stood out to me was the loss of control over your own life, if you entered a hospital.

If you got sick and went to the hospital, you stood a good chance of dying there, alone, with nobody around you but strangers. If you got sick and stayed at home, there is also the chance of dying, and if you can't get at-home medical services ... perhaps a greater chance, but everybody is around you.

Finally, when it's all said and done, the hospital (and our health system, in a way) then dumps on you with atrocious bills; these are almost impossible to fight, unless you get somebody on your side (the press, for example). I can't imagine what financial excesses are being placed in everyone's "coming due" column, if they went in last year.

So the question is, why go to the hospital at all these days? I seem to see more risk, more downside than up. I'm not saying you shouldn't go if you think it is life-threatening, I'm saying I'm thinking twice, or more. I'm looking for alternatives to hospitals. I'm leaning hard towards staying, and possibly dying, at home, and possibly just because I don't want to bankrupt the family. Also because I can die at home, with family around me.

I think we need to bring back "dying at home", with your family all around you, for lack of a better term.

Your thoughts or advice?


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

Our local hospital has the worst record for able care..... I would take my chances at home!


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I know of several hospitals currently with ER waiting room times of 8 hours or more before someone can be seen.
I know of hospitals put on diversion, meaning they won't take any more patients so ambulances are being directed to the next hospital.
I know of a gentleman who just slumped over, died and fell out of his chair after sitting in ER for about 2 hours.
I know of overnight ER nurses who stop taking in patients from the waiting from at about 2 am. They wait until the next shift starts at 7am.
I know of portable "rooms" being made with beds in the hallways surrounded by plastic curtains.
It doesn't matter whether the pandemic is responsible or the government and media are, I won't have any part in that.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I had a friend who lived in his childhood home. He recalled his father dying on the living room couch. He was a coal miner who was hit in the head during a cave in. The doctors did all they could, his wife brought him home and the family gathered in the living room for his passing.
My mother died in a bedroom in our home. We expected it, and when it came, it was about the best that one could expect under the circumstances. 
Home hospice can help a lot.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

We have significantly changed how we approach health/medical care over the last several years, pre and post pandemic. Used to be we saw our PCP for everything and went to the ER after hours, if significantly injured or ill. Now -- if the injury/illness is bad enough - we would call an ambulance. If we don't need an ambulance - we avoid the hospital at all costs. First option for non-life-threatening issues is what can we do at home, do we really need help? If we need help, telehealth is the next choice, then the little clinic in the local chain grocery store, then our local urgent care (we have 2 that are reputable and several we would not go to). I'm pretty much to the point that if we don't need to call an ambulance - we don't go to the hospital. If it's elective, we elect not.

I have a pulse-ox, thermometers, splints, bandages, antiseptics, etc. We have increased what we do to prevent illness and injury.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

GTX63 said:


> I know of several hospitals currently with ER waiting room times of 8 hours or more before someone can be seen.
> I know of hospitals put on diversion, meaning they won't take any more patients so ambulances are being directed to the next hospital.
> I know of a gentleman who just slumped over, died and fell out of his chair after sitting in ER for about 2 hours.
> I know of overnight ER nurses who stop taking in patients from the waiting from at about 2 am. They wait until the next shift starts at 7am.
> ...


The administration running the hospital is primarily responsible for the sad situations we are seeing in the hospital. They can try to pass on blame to others to some extent. But it’s their job to make sure these problems do not happen, especially long term. It’s obvious the administers do not have the same concerns that the patients do.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I saw where the death rate was 1/7 deaths from the coronavirus if hospitalized. Some situations can't be avoided. I had a family member get knee replacement yesterday. In at 5am and out by noon. He was more worried about catching something than the surgery...


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Redlands Okie said:


> The administration running the hospital is primarily responsible for the sad situations we are seeing in the hospital. They can try to pass on blame to others to some extent. But it’s their job to make sure these problems do not happen, especially long term. It’s obvious the administers do not have the same concerns that the patients do.


On other threads and in other forums, the question often comes up "Where is all the ammo at?"
People can't seem to find ammunition for their firearms and then they realize that the virus, politics, politicians, and general panic have created the market conditions.
Their next response is typically "Well why aren't the bullet manufacturers expanding and ramping up for more production?"
Well, maybe because of the long term costs, knowing that once the buying settles down, they will be straddled with manpower they no longer need and larger debt.
They could probably speed up production a bit, but do you really want a bullet made faster?
So one makes a product and the other performs a life necessity, healthcare.
The problem is when the latter uses the business model of the former.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

I actually had to deal with this decision earlier in the year. Multiple visits to the ER and admitted to the hospital multiple times. As you wrote, if you are dealing with something life threatening you don't have much of a choice. I was fortunate in that my local hospital had received a large donation a few years back for building a new wing with an ER and associated ICU and CCU. They have maintained a separate red zone and green zone with separate everything. To be blunt, it will depend on your local hospital. I believe that most hospitals have better protocols and resources than Urgicares. If you can put off elective surgery until you have been vaccinated, that probably makes sense.


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## Sebastian C (Jul 23, 2017)

We probably had covid, almost definitely. One girl who was exposed to only us in the days before we had symptoms later had a cold and tested positive and couldn't get on a plane and got quarantined in the capital for Christmas. Big pain in the butt. 

But we didn't ask to get tested, I don't want to be on anyone's lists and having officials coming by to make sure we are still quarantining. We did keep to ourselves for a while. 

We're all young and healthy I've had way worse colds and we're fine now . The kids hardly got a sniffle. But I don't want to discard the risk, it's all around our neighborhood and several old folks with other problems have died from it and its complications. So I'm thankful that we're so fortunate.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Hospitals here have had long waiting times in the ER long before the pandemic. When my son had his heart attack he spent 5 hours in the ER after the ambulance dropped him off. Another time when his doctor sent him to the ER (swelling and severe pain at a surgical site, years before the heart attack) we spent 6 hours in an over crowded room and still hadn't been seen. There were reports of people dying in hallways or in waiting rooms long before covid reared it's ugly head. The affordable care act was supposed to help with that situation but it hasn't made a difference.


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## tracylee (Jun 29, 2013)

I have spent years studying natural medicine, holistic healing, orthomolecular nutrition and so on for the sole purpose of neither myself or my family never goes to the hospital. After watching 8 close family and friends murdered at the hands of hospitals and having no accountability, there is nothing that would send me or my family there.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i should get a second opinion on my arm. i know i've either broken or sprained etc my shoulder from when the tree fell on me. but i've been putting it off for months. year before last i was taken in by ambulance. waited 7 hours before i got in to find out i had a kidney stone. now that i know what that pain was i'll try not to go in if i have another. i rather suffer it out if i can. i still have some of the opiods they gave me. and i stocked up on ibuprophen stuff like that. if worse comes to worse i'm hoping i can just stay in my own bed. i dont worry about dying i just dont want to die in there. ~Georgia


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

The first hospital I built it was a unique build. We finished the OR floor first then the ER floor. I was in and out of every room at times and saw quite a few things that stood out. One in particular was the dreaded buzzer. After a while it becomes white noise to everyone around it. The lights go off and you notice them but the buzzer you really dont notice and it becomes routine. 

The last few decades many people will have a runny nose and go to the ER. Nofever, no aches or much of anything else. Just didnt want to make an appointment at the doctor. Too good to wait, I need my runny nose looke dat NOW. After a while we become white noise too. The boy that cried wolf. Now we are seeing what that gets us. 

I think being at home for most things is best too. Even before the pandemic.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Dad used to tell me when he was young, you went to hospital to die. Docs made house calls and people were tended to at home.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

TracyLee, I believe that's the way I'm leaning, and I've got a lot to catch up on, learning-wise. I think we can handle up to broken bones, if no complications. I don't think we can handle heart attack (no AED at home yet), stroke, or such. If I call telehealth, they just would say go to the ER ... so I'm really looking for some kind of at-home methodology for the big ones.

NewfieAnnie, I "had my baby" on a Sunday night, and rolled around on the floor for an hour in agony; after everyone stopped laughing (I was sure it was the "alien" creature coming out), they told me it was a kidney stone. I had to tough it out, as in my case, a.) the ambulance can't find us, out in the middle of nowhere, and 2.) the EMS service started charging premium prices for the ambulance ride. In the doctor's office later that week, they gave me a $500 cup w/ screen to go panning for stones, but I never found the little bugger. The cup has a place of honor, though ... can't afford to throw it out.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i still have the cup also and never did find a stone. (mine couldn't have been 500 though just looks like pieces of plastic to me)i was mostly scared to death about all the horror stories of blood and whatnot when you passed it. who knows maybe mine is still there somewhere.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

You can get by without any modern health care. They did that way back in the year 1900. And lived to the age of 46 or 48. https://u.demog.berkeley.edu/~andrew/1918/figure2.html


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Sebastian C said:


> We probably had covid, almost definitely. One girl who was exposed to only us in the days before we had symptoms later had a cold and tested positive and couldn't get on a plane and got quarantined in the capital for Christmas. Big pain in the butt.
> 
> But we didn't ask to get tested, I don't want to be on anyone's lists and having officials coming by to make sure we are still quarantining. We did keep to ourselves for a while.
> 
> We're all young and healthy I've had way worse colds and we're fine now . The kids hardly got a sniffle. But I don't want to discard the risk, it's all around our neighborhood and several old folks with other problems have died from it and its complications. So I'm thankful that we're so fortunate.


I too decided to stay home. I am still very sick. But only way for me to go would yo call 911. I did check with health dept and even called hospital 3 times during my sickest days
Was told to stay home if my lips turned blue go to hospital. Cant find a covid test site close and still would have to drive myself
My new problem is getting my pain meds and other meds i take. Cant get to pharmacy non deliver. Pain center wont fax my controled drug i have to go 1.5
Hr drive away. Called but no go. 
Really not sure what people are to do. I live alone and its been tough.
Guess best advice is go before your too sick to drive.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

MichaelZ said:


> You can get by without any modern health care. They did that way back in the year 1900. And lived to the age of 46 or 48. https://u.demog.berkeley.edu/~andrew/1918/figure2.html


My great grandfather died in 1918, he was born in 1828..


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

po boy said:


> My great grandfather died in 1918, he was born in 1828..


Only 90? Did he drink a lot or something? 

Yeah, many that died young back then was virus and disease. Add a few hostile Indians and/or outlaws, thieves and miscreants in general and that doesnt help either.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

I've heard of numbers like that ... you made it to your 40's or 50's. I think these averages leave out some key details, and aren't really a plan ... they are more like what happens without the plan.

I don't want to shoot for _no_ health care, I want to avoid hospitals _if at all possible_, because I think there is a deadliness component (current CoV processes, MRSA, and such) creeping in these days.

I think that means explore the alternatives, and see if things can be pushed around to put an ER visit or hospital stay _way down_ on the list. As we are out in the middle of nowhere, this is important ... 

Others are giving us good insights, and these threads help me build that list:

we already live a healthier lifestyle than most ... out in the country, away from pollution/crime, etc.
get an AED onsite (seen some used ones, but still looking)
Telehealth gives us a "nurse hotline"
don't know yet how to get full doctor service, but something like telehealth/home-visit/email
and training and medical equipment, to the level of at least EMT or wilderness medicine
pick parents with perfect genes ...
Did I miss anything?


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## Sebastian C (Jul 23, 2017)

Forcast said:


> I too decided to stay home. I am still very sick. But only way for me to go would yo call 911. I did check with health dept and even called hospital 3 times during my sickest days
> Was told to stay home if my lips turned blue go to hospital. Cant find a covid test site close and still would have to drive myself
> My new problem is getting my pain meds and other meds i take. Cant get to pharmacy non deliver. Pain center wont fax my controled drug i have to go 1.5
> Hr drive away. Called but no go.
> ...


I'm sorry sounds rough. Good luck I hope you pull through it okay.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

MichaelZ said:


> You can get by without any modern health care. They did that way back in the year 1900. And lived to the age of 46 or 48. https://u.demog.berkeley.edu/~andrew/1918/figure2.html


That is highly misleading. There were a lot of deaths of infants and children. Childhood diseases that we vaccinate against. Freak farm accidents. Emerging medical practices that interfered with childbirth, something that we left up to nature since time began. If you made it to ten, and didn't work in a mine or factory, you could expect to live beyond your forties or fifties.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

barnbilder said:


> That is highly misleading. There were a lot of deaths of infants and children. Childhood diseases that we vaccinate against. Freak farm accidents. Emerging medical practices that interfered with childbirth, something that we left up to nature since time began. If you made it to ten, and didn't work in a mine or factory, you could expect to live beyond your forties or fifties.


Yes, you have a point. Removing those infant deaths would bring that age up. But if I were living back then, I would be dead 5 years ago from a cellulitis infection that I had treated with antibiotics in the emergency room. That rapidly spreading infection would have most likely killed me. I am one who would rather avoid hospitals and take the best care of myself, but I can not deny what essential services they perform through modern medicine.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

50ShadesOfDirt said:


> There were many losses out of the CoV year of 2020; one thing that really stood out to me was the loss of control over your own life, if you entered a hospital.
> 
> If you got sick and went to the hospital, you stood a good chance of dying there, alone, with nobody around you but strangers. If you got sick and stayed at home, there is also the chance of dying, and if you can't get at-home medical services ... perhaps a greater chance, but everybody is around you.
> 
> ...


Had ingrown Toenail last week it was getting bad. Went to the V.A. hospital at 7:30 in the morning. No patients in the waiting room. Seen Doc. in about 15 minutes. He took care of it. Some things you have to see Doc about.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

An historical anecdote--

The Kaiser Clinic, the model for the HMO movement of the 80s and major provider of care in CA, has been around since the 30s. Docs are employed under contract. In the early 70s, the docs went on strike over a contract dispute...Docs on strike! Oh, No! What is the world coming to? Headline news every night on TV for days. Militant docs loudly voicing their outrage against The Man-- quite fashionable in those Hippy Days.

Each state routinely publishes its "Morbidity & Mortality Report" each week....At the end of that first week of strike, the CA mortality rate had fallen by 50% !!!...Was it a Cause & Effect or just One of those Things?

The striking docs didn't want to take a chance that a second week's record would show the same thing. They quietly went back to work with their tails between their legs- and the mortality rate went back up to "normal."

Draw your own conclusions.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

So the question is, why go to the hospital at all these days? I seem to see more risk, more downside than up. I'm not saying you shouldn't go if you think it is life-threatening, I'm saying I'm thinking twice, or more. I'm looking for alternatives to hospitals. I'm leaning hard towards staying, and possibly dying, at home, and possibly just because I don't want to bankrupt the family. Also because I can die at home, with family around me. 

Hospice is a combination of volunteers working with the Medicare program. Anyone elgible to receive Medicare benefits is elgible to apply for Hospice benefits.. First step is to have doctor verify or diagnose a terminal condition which won't last more than six months. Second is to sign a DNR order......

Alternatives to hospital? Sixty minutes/week of walking, rowing, dancing, gardening, biking....

ONE biscuit and two tablespoons of gravy per breakfast(not two biscuits and two cups....)

No smoking

Regular doctor checkups and rear end inspections 

Yearly blood workups--goes with yearly exams.

Have someone check/scrape your feet often.

.....Wear your mask.......


🙂

geo


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

geo in mi said:


> So the question is, why go to the hospital at all these days? I seem to see more risk, more downside than up. I'm not saying you shouldn't go if you think it is life-threatening, I'm saying I'm thinking twice, or more. I'm looking for alternatives to hospitals. I'm leaning hard towards staying, and possibly dying, at home, and possibly just because I don't want to bankrupt the family. Also because I can die at home, with family around me.
> 
> Hospice is a combination of volunteers working with the Medicare program. Anyone elgible to receive Medicare benefits is elgible to apply for Hospice benefits.. First step is to have doctor verify or diagnose a terminal condition which won't last more than six months. Second is to sign a DNR order......
> 
> ...


Excellent advice....I'd add only one thing--"Choose your parents wisely." Disease is about 80% genetically determined.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

doc- said:


> Excellent advice....I'd add only one thing--"Choose your parents wisely." Disease is about 80% genetically determined.


I got mine on sale.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I did not know Hospice people were volunteers. It makes me appreciate their service that much more.

Sometimes stuff happens and no matter how well you take care of yourself you get hit with a medical emergency. Or you have physical developmental issues that are not hereditary or preventable.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

"Hospice" is largely a boondoggle source of easy income for the home nursing providers. I'm not aware of any "volunteers" involved in my experience.

The program is for terminal pts & their families who are willing to accept the consequences of the illness without making any attempts to prolong life. It is for providing certain comforts like more liberal use of narcotics or a sympathetic ear.

I usually considered it more to ease the suffering of the family than of the patient. The providers only spend a few minutes on each visit, hardly enough to really help with the nitty-gritty of caring for a sick pt. It's not like they're there long enough for the family to go out shopping or disco dancing. for an evening.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

doc- said:


> "Hospice" is largely a boondoggle source of easy income for the home nursing providers. I'm not aware of any "volunteers" involved in my experience.
> 
> The program is for terminal pts & their families who are willing to accept the consequences of the illness without making any attempts to prolong life. It is for providing certain comforts like more liberal use of narcotics or a sympathetic ear.
> 
> I usually considered it more to ease the suffering of the family than of the patient. The providers only spend a few minutes on each visit, hardly enough to really help with the nitty-gritty of caring for a sick pt. It's not like they're there long enough for the family to go out shopping or disco dancing. for an evening.


So what do you recommend for a terminal patient and the family that loves them?


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## snowlady (Aug 1, 2011)

Hospice also helps the family to know what to do when. Hospital, phone call, ambulance, funeral home? They have much more leeway to prescribe and administer comfort drugs than a regular nursing service. Our hospice here is always asking for volunteers. I am not really sure but I think they are more for moral support than actual care ( the volunteers). They can also expedite other services like getting medical equipment to the home faster than usual.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

In our family, they get to die at home surrounded by family and friends unless they require medical assistance that can not be provided at home and not available from the palliative care providers.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Hospice differs by provider. I have a shirt-tail relative who is the one that it seems "everyone" goes to when they are dying, and she has had quite a bit of experience working with hospice..._she_ is the volunteer! 

She does the direct care, hospice offers guidance, support, suggestions, sometimes assistance, occasionally relief, and/or back up. So far, she has taken care of 8 different family members who were dying. In her experience, different companies have different care standards and methods, so be _VERY_ aware of that. There are some hospice that she won't use or recommend. Ask a LOT of questions when you hire, but BEFORE then, ask around. Hate to say it but...go to a local senior center and ask questions there, they're more likely to have experienced a hospice for their family, or a friend, and can offer insight or suggestions.

Mon


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

In 2017 my wife was dying from cancer and got to a point that she could not get comfortable in our bed and was also getting very weak. I called hospice and within hours they came out and interviewed both of us and set us up. Within hours, we had a hospital bed, oxygen, wheelchair, adult diapers, and some adjustments in meds. The hospital bed made a lot of difference for her. They provided a social worker, RN, baths, and a Chaplin if she wanted one. About 3 days later her pain was getting severe and they provided morphine within hours. We had regular visits and the day before she died, we were told it would be within 3 days, and knowing that was a relief for my wife and me. She died about 18 hours later on Saturday morning of the Memorial Day weekend. An RN came and pronounced her, called the funeral home that we had selected, and stayed with me until after she had been taken to the funeral home.
She was on hospice for seven days and we were more than pleased with their services.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

po boy said:


> In 2017 my wife was dying from cancer and got to a point that she could not get comfortable in our bed and was also getting very weak. I called hospice and within hours they came out and interviewed both of us and set us up. Within hours, we had a hospital bed, oxygen, wheelchair, adult diapers, and some adjustments in meds. The hospital bed made a lot of difference for her. They provided a social worker, RN, baths, and a Chaplin if she wanted one. About 3 days later her pain was getting severe and they provided morphine within hours. We had regular visits and the day before she died, we were told it would be within 3 days, and knowing that was a relief for my wife and me. She died about 18 hours later on Saturday morning of the Memorial Day weekend. An RN came and pronounced her, called the funeral home that we had selected, and stayed with me until after she had been taken to the funeral home.
> She was on hospice for seven days and we were more than pleased with their services.


Good example...That's the way it's supposed to work...As I said, It's really more to relieve the family of some of the burden of details than for the actual care of the patient.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

That is the way it worked for my father as well. He was able to come home for his last 7 days. They even provided a hospital bed that made things easier. My family was more than happy to kick in and provide what he needed in care at home.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Hospice worked very well for a couple of my relatives. The families were all very involved and hospice was extraordinary. They took a lot of pressure off of the families so they could spend time with their loved ones.


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## wil14 (Sep 13, 2020)

MichaelZ said:


> You can get by without any modern health care. They did that way back in the year 1900. And lived to the age of 46 or 48. https://u.demog.berkeley.edu/~andrew/1918/figure2.html



When you control for infant and child mortality, we're living a bit longer but not excessively different than back in the day. That's what drives life expectancy numbers down. See this chart for an example of how dramatic it is: United States: child mortality rate 1800-2020 | Statista.

I would want care for my wife during birth and children but for most things, I think an IV drip for hydration and nutrition is really the biggest thing a hospital provides in a lot of cases.

Edit: While objectively I think everything I said above is true, I do have to admit that I was humbled and grateful on several occasions with the care our local hospital took of relatives.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

I'm leaning hard towards those who say "loved one dies at home", surrounded by family. This seems to be the way it was done, and I'll work hard to make sure it happens on our homestead.

From some of the posts, it appears "hospice", assuming you are lucky enough to have the insurance for it (medicaid/medicare if old enough, and out-of-luck/down-on-luck if young enough?), can be a good thing, it'll just be hit and miss on whether or not you get a good provider.

As I can't write my own prescriptions (but I can stockpile what meds I do receive), I'll try to layer on hospice, if my neck of the woods has them.

Off to dig a hole, for a stealth grave ... oh, wait a minute, it's against the law in most states. Off to research setting up a private cemetary on our hopefully multi-generational family homestead. This multi-generational thing seems to solve lots of issues ...


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

My mother in law received hospice care at the end of her life. The hospice worker was able to contact and help co-ordinate doctors and family leave paperwork, accomodations like a hospital bed and bedside commode, medical necessities like transportation and medication, personal care like baths and personal care supplies and guidance as to what was to be expected in her final days. The family had their choice of hospice providers that served the area. She had insurance that would have paid for a caregiver relief nurse but it was not needed with her children taking turns to help out.

Edited to correct typing error


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

wil14 said:


> When you control for infant and child mortality, we're living a bit longer but not excessively different than back in the day. That's what drives life expectancy numbers down. See this chart for an example of how dramatic it is: United States: child mortality rate 1800-2020 | Statista.
> 
> I would want care for my wife during birth and children but for most things, I think an IV drip for hydration and nutrition is really the biggest thing a hospital provides in a lot of cases.
> 
> Edit: While objectively I think everything I said above is true, I do have to admit that I was humbled and grateful on several occasions with the care our local hospital took of relatives.


It's much more than just infant mortality.. All countries compared for People > Age distribution > Population aged 80 or over > Percent (nationmaster.com) Compare the present percentage of Americans over 80 (4%) to the portion in say, 1950 (1%)


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

50ShadesOfDirt said:


> Off to dig a hole, for a stealth grave ... oh, wait a minute, it's against the law in most states. Off to research setting up a private cemetary on our hopefully multi-generational family homestead. This multi-generational thing seems to solve lots of issues ...


There are still areas where pops can be dropped in the backyard.
But, a large pile of oak and hedge and a note pinned in the barn so your wife knows to use the yellow fuel container should be about all you need. You can dump the nuts and bolts out of that foldgers can too if you still have the lid.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> There are still areas where pops can be dropped in the backyard.
> But, a large pile of oak and hedge and a note pinned in the barn so your wife knows to use the yellow fuel container should be about all you need. You can dump the nuts and bolts out of that foldgers can too if you still have the lid.


I’d check with the coroner about legalities before jeopardizing the wife with illegal disposal of a body. In my state home burial on the farm is acceptable, just make sure the body has six feet of dirt over it And not too close the the creek.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Evons hubby said:


> I’d check with the coroner about legalities before jeopardizing the wife with illegal disposal of a body. In my state home burial on the farm is acceptable, just make sure the body has six feet of dirt over it And not too close the the creek.


I have neighbors about three miles away. They put their mom and dad in the front yard. They did use their own backhoe with county approval. The headstone looks good...


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I'll have to post a photo. We have an old graveyard on a backroad with a sign over the gate-
"No digging or burying after hours and tools must be property of management."


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Been to the hospital four times in last couple months! Dehydration, broken arm due falling, the install feeding tube.. glad to see 2020 finished.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Evons hubby said:


> Been to the hospital four times in last couple months! Dehydration, broken arm due falling, the install feeding tube.. glad to see 2020 finished.


May your road be smoother in 2021.


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## Jlynnp (Sep 9, 2014)

101pigs said:


> Had ingrown Toenail last week it was getting bad. Went to the V.A. hospital at 7:30 in the morning. No patients in the waiting room. Seen Doc. in about 15 minutes. He took care of it. Some things you have to see Doc about.


 Went to the VA Urgent Care this morning. Fri night my husband ended up with both dome seals on his hearing aids stuck in his ears. No problem thought, just run to the Urgent Care which we did/ Well the idiot in charge had no real clue what she was doing - she did get one out but the second one she shoved so far down his ear canal it was touching his ear drum. We won't go to the ER, DH was "to busy" to go anywhere Sat & Sun and on Monday the floor people were here to finish installing the floor. Finally today he had me take him to the Urgent Care at the VA - within 15 mins he was in triaged and had the last one easily slipped from his ear and we were on our way home. While it is a 4 hour round way drive it was well worth it.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

nchobbyfarm said:


> May your road be smoother in 2021.


One can hope, but I’m certain I overheard 2021 comment to 2020.... oh really... hold my beer and watch this!


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## Annie in S.E. Ohio (Jun 17, 2002)

50ShadesOfDirt said:


> There were many losses out of the CoV year of 2020; one thing that really stood out to me was the loss of control over your own life, if you entered a hospital.
> 
> If you got sick and went to the hospital, you stood a good chance of dying there, alone, with nobody around you but strangers. If you got sick and stayed at home, there is also the chance of dying, and if you can't get at-home medical services ... perhaps a greater chance, but everybody is around you.
> 
> ...


First off, I pray you have a PCP in place to take care of you. If not, you're kinda ****ed . Please excuse my language, but it remains true.
If you think you have Covid, stay at home. When your blood oxygen levels get below 94% ( yes, please get one the damn things from Amazon or where ever !!!) go seek your PCP's advice or get evacuated by an urgent care center. Please do this !!!

You will most likely get a steroid injection and sent home with a Z pak. Monitor your status with the most needed blood oxygen device. If it gets below 94% get your ass to a doctor !

If your blood oxygen hovers around 94% and are able to take a walk and do accomplish your usual daily chores, get down and pray to whatever supreme being you honor !

Because you are among the majority whom develop CV and recover uneventfully. Praise be to God ! 

I apologize for that outburst, but I'm a Christian who recognizes the power and the glory that my God and Saviour can bring to those of us that simply ask.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

Ohio Annie's post makes me realize something else that should have come out of this whole CoV crisis ... relax the insane grip of the medical profession on every single "prescription drug" and O2. Wouldn't it be possible to reduce the numbers of folks having to go in to the hospital, by instead going to your pharmacy, checking blood O2, getting a "dose" of O2 or steroid or whatever was determined to be the result?

I'd like this as an option, vs having to hunt down the PCP, schedule the appt, wait weeks, get in and increase everyone's risk, just to get the solution to the same thing 100's or 1000's of others had to do as well. Assuming I was lucky enough to have healthcare & PCP's.

Something similar happened with the vaccines, where now the pharmacies can distribute/give them. Why not for this?

Aren't there many other (medical) scenarios where something simple is the solution, but many levels of bureaucracy stand in the way of doing what is expedient? Doesn't this crisis highlight the need for other paths to the same solution?


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## Amtown (Dec 29, 2020)

Tough one.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Our nearest ER is about an hour away. Here are a few current event updates from a shift manager.
An ambulance brings in an old man and his middle aged son both drenched in blood. Father hit his son over the head twice with a piece of firewood, splitting his head open. Son pummeled his father into unconsciousness. After 12 hours they are released with no where to go and no one to pick them up. Ex wife of the father comes in and is afraid of the two of them. Son says the mother isn't showing sufficient sympathy for him and he refuses to leave with her as he has anger issues and may hurt her.

Meth addict is brought in on an OD. Police stand by to take him in once he is stabilized. He runs out of the room, naked, down the hall and out the doors, up the street into a residential area at 1 in the morning. Two cops, a security guard and a nurse are chasing after him.

Guy comes into the ER and says he is having homicidal thoughts. The girl at the admitting desk says "You mean suicidal thoughts?"
"No, homicidal. I want to kill somebody" he replied.
She finishes his paperwork and says "OK, go sit in the waiting room and we'll get you in as soon as we can."

Woman walks in with a bad case of intestinal worms, parasites, lice and mites under her fingernails. The hospital is at capacity and they give her a blanket and a chair. She has a pyschotic episode and vomits over an old man in a wheelchair.

Between that and the homeless that creep in from the cold, I'd say stay away as far as you can.


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