# Why not wind?



## Maxpowers (Apr 4, 2012)

I hear a lot of talk about solar these days, but what about wind? I moved to SE Michigan in October and didn't the sun until April. It also seems to stay decently windy here, especially in the winter.

I'm not really finding much info about it in the little bit that I've searched. I had this idea that since it's a much more basic and older technology that it should be cheaper right? 

Last I checked I think it's supposed to be $10k+ or so for a whole house solar. What would an equivalent wind mill go for?


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## Newlife (May 27, 2012)

Just like solar, the answer to your question is it depends. 

It'll depend on your wind, blade design, tower height, grid-tied or off-grid, etc...

Personally, I'm a fan of combining both; especially if you have good wind or are able to get some good elevation on your wind-powered generator.

Here's a link to some wind, but I have no experience with this company, so I can't say if their equipment is either good or bad; but it does provide some information that hopefully will help you on your way.
Complete Kits


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Maxpowers said:


> ...Last I checked I think it's supposed to be $10k+ or so for a whole house solar. What would an equivalent wind mill go for?


$20K+

In the right location with the right type of person a wind genny is a very good choice. Solar systems are for passive peolpe. You can sit back and let them do there think with very little involvement. Wind though takes an active peson. You need to be ready to do repairs/maintenence as soon as needed.

PV solar right now is the glamour power source. The "In" thing to do. Wind is less glamourous so you don't have the yuppy green types pushing it. 

It also takes a lot more wind to produce decient power than most people think. Unless you have to regularly put your hand on your hat to kold it on, most likely you do not have enough wind. 

WWW


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,
You have to have a decently high average wind speed to make wind make sense. Most places don't, but if you do, wind can be a good way to go.

You can get a rough idea if you have enough wind by going through the "Got Wind?" stuff on this page: 
Wind Power Generators -- Windmills
Wind power drops as the cube of the wind velocity, so its very important to make sure you have enough wind.

The "Wind Power for Dummies" book by Ian Woofenden is very good to get started in wind power. Ian is the wind guy at Home Power Magazine and has with wind power for decades -- he knows his stuff.

Gary


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

One Name two words, Hugh Piggott.

Hugh Piggott's old home page


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I am pleased to say I have known Mick Sagrillo, and Ian Woolfenden for several years.
Never had the pleasure of attending a Hugh Piggott workshop.

But what ever words of wisdom these guys put on paper . .believe it..........

It was my first meeting with the Guru of Wind, Mick Sagrillo who got me going in wind..

Read what you can from these guys and you will have all the answers to your questions on wind............

I really have to laugh when I read of some poor soul who thinks he has done something wonderful when he gets a wind turbine all the way up to 20 to 30 feet in the air . . .wow . . . . . . .Ian Woolfendten's tower at his home is---165 feet----


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

first you have to get where the wind is, that means a tower,
and 80 feet is usually just considered the beginning of a real wind turbine, 

wind takes more maintenance, yes there are tilt up towers, 

but the simple is do you like to climb or are you willing to pay some one to maintain it,

they have moving parts, they break, 

and what most people call windy it normally is not enough for efficient wind turbine use,

but in fairness, I think if one wants to get some thing large, wind may be the way to go,

I think the cost of micro wind is not there, but if your wanting 10 kw or more wind may be the proper option, 

I just got my wind tower up , it is about 80 foot, tall, good tower, solid, but I do not like to climb it, and it is a job or work to climb it, (a free standing tower with a light tilt to it is much easer to climb than one that is straight up), (my water pumping wind mill is on a 57 foot tower, but the 80 foot tower seems worst, to me.
(do not have a turbine for he tower yet),


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

We have been running a bergey xl 1 for four years now.
The tilt up tower (60') is great. It is always a little intimidating to lower and raise BUT it always goes down and up with out a hitch. The turbine /tower took two lightning strikes this spring.. lower it replace two varistors for 8 bucks raise it back up and back in business.
keep it simple.
go with a proven manufacturer 
be ready to be disappointed in total output.
be ready for the noise and ----ed off neighbors if you have any within a car horns distance.
Im happy and impressed with the bergey 1kw which at times may produce up to 1.5 kw
If we were on the grid i would rather have the money in solar (here in sunny texas)


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

Most wind turbines are rated for a consistent 30mph wind. Most places in this country don't have that.

If you have a wind turbine rated at 900 watts and your average wind speed on a good day is 15mph, your turbine will only produce 450 watts.

They are not a good choice for most people. As far as efficiency and applicability, hydro is your best choice, solar second, and wind is third. If you don't have access to hydro, your best system is to go solar with a wind backup.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

... PaulNKS, for us laypeople, "hydro" is what?


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

PaulNKS said:


> Most wind turbines are rated for a consistent 30mph wind. Most places in this country don't have that.
> 
> If you have a wind turbine rated at 900 watts and your average wind speed on a good day is 15mph, your turbine will only produce 450 watts.


Wouldn't it be more like 115 Watts output? I don't know wind well, so correct me if I'm wrong, but if you cut the wind speed in half doesn't the power go down by a factor of 8?


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

motdaugrnds said:


> ... PaulNKS, for us laypeople, "hydro" is what?


Water. Falling water, to be more precise.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

"Do you like to climb".....

Yep.....that's the question if your tower can't tilt up/down.

Not a wind turbine tower, just one I built to get wireless internet service.










100' below my feet to the ground !










But the view is great.....ahahahaaaaaa.....










Gets me high speed wireless internet down to my place below:


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Sure envy you that beautiful sight Andy; but not the climb on that tower!


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

ryanthomas said:


> Wouldn't it be more like 115 Watts output? I don't know wind well, so correct me if I'm wrong, but if you cut the wind speed in half doesn't the power go down by a factor of 8?


It could be. A technician told me that cutting the wind speed in half cut the power output by half. He could have been wrong....


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

He was sorely wrong . . . . ..


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

farminghandyman - I'd be interested in learning more about your water pumping windmill.

I've got a well, and my main concern is not having enough water when the electricity goes out. I have a pressurized holding tank, but was thinking about a 300 gal tank that the windmill could fill as needed. 

Living where I live, I see lots of old wooden windmills next to stock tanks, some still just slowly turning & pumping. 

BTW: my well is 350 ft.


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## artificer (Feb 26, 2007)

An excellent quick intro to wind is at The Bottom Line About Wind Turbines | Otherpower

If you use their equation: Power in the wind(Watts) = 1/2 * rho * A * V^3

Where rho is density, A is area, and V is velocity, and plug in numbers for 30mph and 15mph, and 1 square meter area, you get

Watts = 1/2 * 1.23 * 1 * 6.71m/sec^3 = 186watts
Watts = 1/2 * 1.23 * 1 * 13.41m/sec^3 = 1486watts or 8 times as much energy.


Michael


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Wolf mom said:


> farminghandyman - I'd be interested in learning more about your water pumping windmill.
> 
> I've got a well, and my main concern is not having enough water when the electricity goes out. I have a pressurized holding tank, but was thinking about a 300 gal tank that the windmill could fill as needed.
> 
> ...


Some info on water pumping windmills here: Solar water pumping

For example this Dempster brochure has a performance table that goes up to 366 ft depth. http://www.dempsterllc.com/demp_assets/Windmill Catalog_Web.pdf
It might take a location with pretty good wind to achieve that.

The Airlift one gives a maximum lift of 315 ft.

You may be close to the limit of what these windmill pumps can do in well depth? I'll be interested to see what others have to say about this.

Gary


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

We've been running on wind power since 1977. I also do site assessments for people considering wind power, and figure that the main thing I do is tell them that it isn't windy enough. When I find a good windy site, it usually is well worth putting up a system, but we are usually talking about a 10kw Bergey, 20kw Jacobs, or something bigger, and $60,000 and up for an installed system on a tower of 120 ft to 160 ft. What the wind feels like on the ground has little to do with what the actual usable wind is up 100 feet--at ground level people notice turbulence, and that isn't usable.
For a ROUGH idea of wind speed at 30 meters (not quite 100ft), check out your state's map at Wind Powering America: Residential-Scale 30-Meter Wind Maps
Remember that effective windspeed is reduced by terrain, ground cover, buildings, and other obstructions.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

and to play the devils advocate ........

There is a company in the southwest part of the country who puts their so called "turbines" on 30 foot "towers" and sucks plenty of profit from the gullible people.

Don't know if the peoples ever wake up to the fact that that combination never produces what the company claims..........

They give the wind industry a bad name.

I have lost sales to those guys strickly because of price........

So like my friend WisJim says; get the good turbines and put them up high..........


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Very interesting thread.

I like wind power, and would love to build a very small home built 12v system, maybe just to power a few light bulbs in my shop...just to say that I did it.

Lots of cool stuff on YouTube dealing with small home built stuff meant for low power stuff.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

SolarGary - Thanks - You have a great site!

Just the information I was looking for.


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

One other drawback or hinderance per say against wind - zoning rules as to tower installation, height and/or "fall-down area" (tower falling over must land on your prop + so far in). I know many townships locally went nuts with rules etc when a wind farm was proposed.....


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

A few years ago I watched with interest the postings on the AWEA site from a guy who lives in a suburb of Detroit. 
He is on a 50 ft lot. . . So of course he had absolutely no "fall zone" for even a worthless 30 ft tower.
Nothing but flustration for him as he fought all the rules and regs and the cursed ***zoning***

There was only one answer for that guy . . . .get out of 'Dodge'

Do you really want to live in a area with prohibitive zoning . . . . .?????????

BTW . . . .this suburb (Oak Park MI) is the same burb that hassled and fined a woman who turned her front yard into a very neat veggie garden.
City idiots claimed "It was inappropriate" ..................
There is a really good Utube about this floating around out there...........


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