# Hunting dog question.



## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

Is there a demand for started squirrel or rabbit dogs?

This coming fall I'm cuttin my work load down to just bus driving for the local high school. I started driving for them last November. The salary will pay what few bills I have but doesn't leave me much spending cash. I'm hoping to raise big gardens for both myself and a farmers market for extra money and trying to come up with some other stay at home incomes. Been thinking about dog trainning: Squirrel dogs, rabbit dogs! Plan on doing a lot more hunting to save on groceries too, so might as well be trainning some dogs for sell.


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## Homesteadwi5 (Mar 16, 2008)

Squirrel dogs are a lot more popular right now then they've been in years.If you ever take a look at full cry magazine a good little fiest or cur is fetching a good price these days.Good bred beagles around here run around 100-150 or so.I would think squirrel/**** dogs would sell better in OK.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Not to change the subject, but how do you hunt squirrel with a dog? Around here squirrel hunting is a matter of stealth. Great training for soon to be young deer hunters. Squirrels in this area are very long gone and out of sight if a dog goes into the woods.


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## Homesteadwi5 (Mar 16, 2008)

A good squirrel dog,usually a fiest or small cur or terrier,will use nose,eyes and ears to locate and tree the squirrel.The dog will stay treed until you arrive should the squirrel 'timber' (jump from tree to tree) the dog will follow it from tree to tree always keeping it in sight,or trying to at least.A good squirrel dog will also tree layup **** in the daytime.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

most squirrels after they are safe will bark back at the dog once they tree up for good. because they are so focused on the dog you can usually get a good shot at them.
also in crappy weather when they aren't moving much the dog can locate the tree they are in and hopefully draw a response.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

sounds interesting. I live by an oak, hickory woods with corn and old apples all over. Squirrels are slightly more plentiful then pigeons at St. Peters square. Had 9 of them once in an area the size of my living room.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

I got one dog, a rat terrier, that is already treeing squirrels around the place here. Just been waiting for the right opportunity to take him out and do some real squirrel hunting. I'm probably gonna keep him around to help get other dogs started. I've given the fiest and curs a thought but with the price of some of them, been wondering if there was a big enough demand for them once they were started.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

JJ Grandits said:


> sounds interesting. I live by an oak, hickory woods with corn and old apples all over. Squirrels are slightly more plentiful then pigeons at St. Peters square. Had 9 of them once in an area the size of my living room.


Sometimes you can do a whole lot better stealth hunting for squirrels then with a dog. But theres lots of times when you can get more with a good dog. But the main thing for me is watching the dog perform. Same with rabbit hunting. The sound of a pack of beagles running old Peter Cottontail back around to you is more the fun then actually shooting the rabbit.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

the important thing is getting well known blood and training it up for competition. that's where you might actually be able to make some money. worth a lot more w/some wins under the collar.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I can understand watching the dogs work. Had a couple of good grouse dogs and it was a joy.


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## cur huntin' kid (Apr 15, 2007)

A good started cur is worth any where from 700-1000 around me in OH. If you get into curs I would go with Kemmers or Original Mountain Curs(OMC), they are where the money is at. I would take a OMC over a Kemmer but a lot of people like the Kemmers. If you go OMC make sure they are Original Mountain Cur Breeders Association (OMCBA) registered.


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## Homesteadwi5 (Mar 16, 2008)

Kemmers are top of the line for sure.A lot of the lines in the OMCBA have falsified papers.All they breed for a treeing squirrels,a true mtn cur is more than just a hot nosed squirrel dog.


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## Menglish (May 7, 2009)

Of course if you like to eat squirrels you need a Treeing Feist!!!! LOL Just messing with Curhuntin' kid. 

If you go with curs I'd agree with him. I personally prefer the Feist sized dogs. But either way squirrel dogs are fun and addictive!

Mike


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## mowrey1999 (Aug 25, 2005)

Just as a note on training hunting dogs but not every dog will make a good hunting dog, thats why people who train them may only pick 1-2 out of a litter , I have a friend who trains them and he says for the time he puts in to the dogs there isnt a lot of profit in them vs the time ,so part of the litter will probably sell for 200-300 if your lucky and the 2-3 that may end up as good hunting dogs may bring 1000 or more ea if they have good blood lines and have a proven record in any competitions ,It seems like it takes a few years to get your name out there a few wins and gradually you start to make some money but not a lot according to some trainers, So like any business its how much time you devote , And your Proven success among others in the same field. 
If your thinking of just breeding and selling I would say that isnt a good idea there are lots of people who want to suppliment there income that way and find out there isnt any profit in it ,by the time you have the dogs with shots /wormed and food you have over 100 dollars per dog,


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## Homesteadwi5 (Mar 16, 2008)

mowrey1999 said:


> Just as a note on training hunting dogs but not every dog will make a good hunting dog, thats why people who train them may only pick 1-2 out of a litter , I have a friend who trains them and he says for the time he puts in to the dogs there isnt a lot of profit in them vs the time ,so part of the litter will probably sell for 200-300 if your lucky and the 2-3 that may end up as good hunting dogs may bring 1000 or more ea if they have good blood lines and have a proven record in any competitions ,It seems like it takes a few years to get your name out there a few wins and gradually you start to make some money but not a lot according to some trainers, So like any business its how much time you devote , And your Proven success among others in the same field.
> If your thinking of just breeding and selling I would say that isnt a good idea there are lots of people who want to suppliment there income that way and find out there isnt any profit in it ,by the time you have the dogs with shots /wormed and food you have over 100 dollars per dog,


If you're only gettin 1 or two pups a litter that amount to anything i'd cull that whole line or evaluate my training skills.We've been breeding and selling hounds for almost 40 years,you may not get rich but you can pay the bills by doing what you love to do.You'll have over head expences with any business,but even if you only have two litters of pups a year at 200 bucks a crack that aint bad.Then sell a few started dogs on top of that you;ll do ok.
I havent had a "job" in quiet a while,it works for me.


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## mowrey1999 (Aug 25, 2005)

Homesteadwi5, I dont know if I would go to the extreme of culling the whole line as you but I was Just passing on what a few trainers had told me who had been in business for years as yourself ,since everyones opinion differs and I defiantely didnt want any part of it ,when you said your getting by they are also getting by but definately not making a lot of money at it .You can buy things at garage sales and resell them online and get by ,so I feel your doing it more because you like it than to make a real living at it.I feel there arguement is more how much time is put in verses the profit, and it seems to me like there are a lot of easier ways to make money,


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

you might need to ask for some clarification from your trainer friends. if they mean that only 1 or 2 per litter is likely to turn out a big money winner in competition then they are sort of right. in the case of comp dogs the big money depends a heck of a lot on the trainers & handlers. at 6-10 weeks when most people start sending pups to the new home NO ONE can tell what kind of dog that pup will be. at that age you are buying what the line & breeder consistantly produce. which means you're buying based on what percentage of pups turn out into the kind of dogs you're trying to produce. most named lines are turning out 75% or better. thats why people are paying money for them because their chance of turning out is better than not. now they aren't all going to win the battle of the breeds or the little world hunt, but they are consistantly making the kind of dog the buyers are looking for. if the lines were turning out such low percentages they wouldn't be able to sell pups for squat. i don't hunt competition & neither do the guys i run w/, but we still won't drop real money on pups unless the lines & breeders consistantly produce good woods dogs. the breeders who will get my money are producing litters that have better than 75% turn out. when i get around to breeding for myself i too would cull a line that has that low of a turn out rate.
some of the best trainers are doing more than getting by. they are making money off of what they would be doing anyway they are training dogs for other people at the same time they are training for themselves. a lot of good trainers do more than just train. depending on the type of dogs some guide & some do contract ADC work & others make good $ hunting furs.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

home stead wi5 

i just got a dog , beagle basset mix he is just an old mut 8years old 

i didn't get him to hunt him but because he was great with the kids 4,6,7 

i have no idea his history other than he was picked up with his sister in may had to get an infection dealt with and was then up for adoption at our county humain society.

but last night he picked out 1 tree on the mile walk and was jumping half way up the trunk barking like he had one treed. 

he seems to have 3 barks 1 for treed one for the chase "he was wanting to run down the neighborhood cats last night" and one for i am mad you stuck me in this kennel while you went to eat dinner

what could i do to train him a bit for squirl or **** he may be to small / slow for ****


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## Homesteadwi5 (Mar 16, 2008)

Being that he's that old and you don't know his history,the best thing you can do is show him the game you want him to hunt.You'll know pretty quick if he's ever been hunted at all.If he shows some promise,just keep taking him for those walks where the ****/squirrel frequent and give him the chance.If you could live trap a **** let him bay at the cage for a while (if he will),then take him away to calm down for a little bit.Release the **** give him 10-15 minutes to run,bring the dog back an give him a chance to work the track.With an 8 year old hound,it's a hit or miss chance no matter how you do it.Good Luck.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

thanks i will try that , my wife took him to the vet today , heart worm test and such , the vet said no she i fairly sure he is only 5 and that his bum leeg is a birth or very early growth deformality 

he is faster than he first let on he just had to be motivated to chase somthing

will do with the walks 

he tracks the path of the cats that frequent our yard from the east gate to the west gate were they slip beween the post and the gate corner


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

Hey you all, thanks for the advice! My original plan is to just do a lot of squirrel hunting in the fall months and rabbit hunting during the winter months. Last year was my first year driving the school bus on all those back country dirt roads. In the early mornings I would see squirrels, rabbits, turkeys, deer, and various other wildlife crossing the roads or standing out in the fields. With all that wildlife running around it's got me entering into my second child hood and I want to relive the past of when I use to run the hills with blue ticks, black & tans, and beagles. Of coarse I'm getting to slow and fat to keep up with the **** dogs now days. But I might get one started and let some young fellar do the running. Would really like to get some squirrel and rabbit dogs started and get them into the hands of some young kids. Seems squirrel and rabbit hunting is dying out around here anymore. Kids are too interested in Ipods and Blackberries anymore. Most probably have never ventured out in the woods behind there houses. 

Once again, thanks for the comments. You all got me really encouraged now.


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## houndlover (Feb 20, 2009)

Honestly, there is probably zero market for treeing dogs. All you have to do is visit your local shelter and or look up one of the hound rescue groups - they are probably the number one dumped dog out there. I've been training **** and blood hounds for years and a majority of my dogs come to me very young, free, and already willing to hunt (with little training beyond encouragement). Considering that many states have laws against using dogs to legally hunt with, there would be major problems with advertisement. My terrier hunts squirrels and rabbits like a fiend, again, untrained, but when she gets one, she kills it. It's their nature. Would be hard to train out of them.


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## Homesteadwi5 (Mar 16, 2008)

houndlover said:


> Honestly, there is probably zero market for treeing dogs. All you have to do is visit your local shelter and or look up one of the hound rescue groups - they are probably the number one dumped dog out there. I've been training **** and blood hounds for years and a majority of my dogs come to me very young, free, and already willing to hunt (with little training beyond encouragement). Considering that many states have laws against using dogs to legally hunt with, there would be major problems with advertisement. My terrier hunts squirrels and rabbits like a fiend, again, untrained, but when she gets one, she kills it. It's their nature. Would be hard to train out of them.


The only states that outlawed the majority of hound hunting are wash and oregon.Why would there be a problem with advertising?We've been selling dogs since 1976 with no problems.The market seems to be fine everywhere I go,from west virginia to colorado.I know a few guys in Oregon who make their sole living breeding/selling hounds.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

maybe he's trying to keep his competition down.
cause i know what he said was BS.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

About the only thing outlawed here in Oklahoma is using dogs to run deer. 

Houndlover. It's a no go on pound pups for me. Around here they charge you something like $60 for adoption fee and tack on another $125. for spade/nuter fee. I don't think I could get my money back on pound dogs.


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## grimm_mojo (Dec 30, 2007)

i got buddy that raises black n tans he trains them as well an trains others folks coondogs to . like me i just went yesterday an picked up 2 plotts i have from a friends place in another state that was helping me on training them. so honestly there folks out there that would pay to get a dog trained an some just to get them touched up on. an i seen that squirel dogs are getting more popular. there are many ways you can go with training dogs an selling them


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

houndlover said:


> Honestly, there is probably zero market for treeing dogs. All you have to do is visit your local shelter and or look up one of the hound rescue groups - they are probably the number one dumped dog out there. I've been training **** and blood hounds for years and a majority of my dogs come to me very young, free, and already willing to hunt (with little training beyond encouragement). Considering that many states have laws against using dogs to legally hunt with, there would be major problems with advertisement. My terrier hunts squirrels and rabbits like a fiend, again, untrained, but when she gets one, she kills it. It's their nature. Would be hard to train out of them.


Plenty of Hound hunting here in Missouri and its Legal.

big rockpile


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