# 24x30 metal storage building to small house question



## warbird (Jul 24, 2014)

Hi all,
been lurking here for a month or two, my wife and i recently closed on 6.2 acres in KS. the land already has a 24x30 metal building on sight. no concrete pad it is just screetings. also the posts dont seem to be set in concrete either. at least i didnt see any when i dug down about a foot yesterday. the plan is to turn this into a small house to live in while we save/build the larger house (hopefully debt free)
my question is, if confronted with the same situation. how would you go about doing this?
should i dig out around the posts one by one and pour concrete in them (basically like a fence post would not be able to do actual sonotubes. or would the compacted dirt around them be enough? plan is to run 2x8 (2x10?) from post to post running width, using blocking between then go 2x6 24"OC and then subfloor (probably OSB) with some sort of floor covering over that. would that floor hold the posts well enough to not require concrete?
or should i go ahead and excavate the whole thing and poor a slab and footers.? (not sure thats even possible with posts already in the ground.... thanks for any advice


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Barns are built all the time without concreting in the posts. Many times they are tamped with crushed rock, no problem there. Any thing you put on the ground needs to be treated. Lay down a vapor barrier first, cover, overlap and seal with tape. Otherwise the moisture would rot everything out, the OSB very quickly. Floor should be up off the ground enough for air movement. Post and beam best. You say you and wife, no kids? I would build a small cabin to live in and use building for other uses. Storage, Livestock, feed? To get the barn to livable will cost more, and take more materials than a small building, built right to start with. On slab, stem walls or post and beam, added onto as you have the money. Or if big enough, move an RV inside, not my second choice, either....James


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

2x6 is not enough for floor hoisted. You need at least 2 by 10, and 16 inch on center, not 24".
I agree with James, much better, even cheaper to build something else to live in, possibly a mobile home.
Live in it while building your permanent home, then sell the mobile.


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## warbird (Jul 24, 2014)

we have 3 children 13 yr 7 yr and 2yr olds, mobile home is not an option as they are not allowed in the area. 
do you really think it would be cheaper to start a small cabin from scratch? with the barn already having a solid exterior i would think that would be cheaper to make liveable then starting from scratch... it is a 6 yr old structure. and since it is already on the land i was thinking i could avoid having to pull permits (hopefully) other than having the electric run to it..... maybe my thinking is all wrong here and i need to step back and rethink


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

I'd consider parking a camp trailer or 2 inside the building to live in while you build the house. That way all you should have to worry about is sewer and venting the chimneys. Out of site, out of mind in my opinion.

If code will not let you have a mobile then most likely it will not let you convert the building to a house.

WWW


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

warbird said:


> we have 3 children 13 yr 7 yr and 2yr olds, mobile home is not an option as they are not allowed in the area.
> do you really think it would be cheaper to start a small cabin from scratch? with the barn already having a solid exterior i would think that would be cheaper to make liveable then starting from scratch... it is a 6 yr old structure. and since it is already on the land i was thinking i could avoid having to pull permits (hopefully) other than having the electric run to it..... maybe my thinking is all wrong here and i need to step back and rethink


What do you mean a mobil is not an option necause kids arent allowed in the area?
For many years as a kid I lived in a mibile home with my dad and 4 siblings.
Years later for 3 years my wife, kids and I lived in one as well.
They may not be ideal, but as a temporary (2-3 year) place to live while building your home, what is wrong with one?
You can sometimes find 3 bedroom trailers for $5,000 +/-, and once set in place, its ready to live in. You won't be able to build a floor, insulate walls, put in heat system, plumbing, electrical, interior walls, etc in your polebarn for that.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

What do you want for a floor? It would probably be just as cheap to pour a slab. Otherwise you need to do something about waterlines and sewer lines if setting a floor on the ground. Better to raise the floor and have a crawl space, all expensive with post and beam. What do you want the building to be after you build a house? Will you have to remove....waste. With kids you do need more room, bigger area. I would still build a small building, adding as you can. Are you going to have animals in the future, or soon? What are you doing for Sewer, water? If you pull any permit, "they" know what you are up to.

Insulating and condensation are 2 problems with this type building. You will need to stud up anyway to add interior. Vapor barrier, not easy. Blow in insulation, expensive. Ceiling? Is it trusses or trussed rafters on 2'? Drop the ceiling or wall all of it in. How tall are the walls? Once you convert, will "they" allow you to stay there, once "they" find out? You bought where you need permits, do you want the worry they will come after you? It is frustrating to want to do cheap and need to do it right. Unpermitted where you need permits is a tough way to go for the future. Not so bad IF you will never move or ever need to sell. Otherwise any money spent has no future....James


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I bought a property where everything was unpermitted. The owner thought he would never sell. I paid 1/4 the price of the cost of the buildings. I went through the county to get it upgraded and permitted. I knew the system and the people to work with. It cost me double what it would have cost if it was permitted in the first place. Permits were cheap, it was removing everything so the inspectors could see and redoing. The wiring was all done right, plumbing was good, building was good, someone thought they could get away with something. I build all the time and see people trying to cut corners. Unless you have no permits, it is not worth it. Most building codes are what really needs to be done to be safe. Inspection costs are high because labor is expensive, most just cover the time and expensive of labor. I agree that small building permits are way too high because the fee does not reflect the time it takes for the planner to inspect. These buildings are built simply, no complex engineering or materials. Permit fees should reflect this instead of one fee fits all....James


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## warbird (Jul 24, 2014)

Dixie Bee Acres. i'm sorry my post wasnt really clear.... i was stating that i have kids. when i said mobile wasnt an option due to they are not allowed in the area, i was referring to the fact that the covenants in the area do not allow mobile homes to be placed on sight. any domicile has to be built on sight. 

Jwal10the buildign would be turned into my wifes office/production area (she makes all natural soap and body products and sells at boutiques in town) so it would still get used. yes we have rabbits and chickens, plan on a goat or 2 also sometime in the future.... we are going to build without a loan (God willing) so it will take time. not sure the wife could handle living in a camper for that long. we are restricted to 1200 SqFT. minimum with 2car attached garage. having the covenants is obviously not ideal however it is what it is in the area we could afford.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Water, sewer? Looks like you will need permits, see what they will allow with the pole barn. What they will allow, slab? If you start building a house, when do you have to have 1200 sq ft done? 1 year? 

I would still build new instead of retrofitting. Use pole building as is. Shell is the cheap part. DS had to have exterior done, they didn't care about interior to move in, we just did drywall and painted walls, some cabinets and bath fixtures. Start saving materials and money, get foundation in walls up and roof on, close in. We used 5/8" T-111 without grooves for siding, can be used as sheathing after new/different siding is added later. Looks great as is, stained....James


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## warbird (Jul 24, 2014)

i have a well for water. we have been talkign about composting toilets and grey water systems for sewer.... yes once approved i would have 1 year for a 1200 Sq FT home to be built..... not sure how strict they are on that i have to go talk to the committee and start asking questions. basically wanting to make the shed livable to save money on rent so we can get started on the house sooner


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

How about removing the siding on one side of the shed and building a conventional lean to, If you have eave height 2"x4" walls, lean to roof, put 16" floor joists on pier and beam. 8' to 12' wide x up to full length of shed, 30'? Insulate. I think it would be easier and cheaper and you would have the existing shed as is for other uses. Put rafters on 2' centers with plywood and tar paper under the metal roofing to stop condensation. That could be used as an office/work area or chicken house later....James


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## bryant (Aug 8, 2014)

warbird said:


> Dixie Bee Acres. i'm sorry my post wasnt really clear.... i was stating that i have kids. when i said mobile wasnt an option due to they are not allowed in the area, i was referring to the fact that the covenants in the area do not allow mobile homes to be placed on sight. any domicile has to be built on sight.
> 
> Jwal10the buildign would be turned into my wifes office/production area (she makes all natural soap and body products and sells at boutiques in town) so it would still get used. yes we have rabbits and chickens, plan on a goat or 2 also sometime in the future.... we are going to build without a loan (God willing) so it will take time. not sure the wife could handle living in a camper for that long. we are restricted to 1200 SqFT. minimum with 2car attached garage. having the covenants is obviously not ideal however it is what it is in the area we could afford.


I would check the covenants, if they don't allow MH on properties I would imagine they don't allow unconventional housing either. If what you are wanting to do with the existing building is permitted by the covenants, then your best bet would be to do a slab, just excavate all the way to around the poles, lay down a vapor barrier, 2" thick foam insulation and do the pour. Now you have a serviceable floor for what ever you decide to do in the end run, and you have a serviceable floor for the temp living quarters. It will all depend on the covenants for your area (subdivision).


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