# basic questions about pasture rotation



## WillfulGal (Oct 18, 2007)

I have recently lost a lamb which had been experienceing problems with worm resistance. My other lambs seem fine, but I do not want to go through that experience again, and am interested in pasture rotation as a way to control worms. I need clarification on exactly how it works, though, to determine if it is a good choice for me:

From what I have read, pasture rotation works one of these two ways (or a combination): 1. Pasture rotation works because sheep are moved from short grass (where they easily pick up worms that live near the soil) to longer grass where the sheep are not as exposed to worms 2. Pasture rotation works because sheep deposit worms in their feces and by moving them to a "clean" pasture periodically they are less likely to pick up worms, and after some time the worms in the old pasture will die. 

I guess what I am asking is, if I have a few sheep on a large enough pasture where the sheep do not eat the grass down short, is pasture rotation really necessary?


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## LibertyWool (Oct 23, 2008)

What I have found is that a few sheep in a large pasture will still eat some grass down below 4". This is for several reasons. One they may like one type of forage better than the other (ie clover vs timothy). If the pasture gets ahead of the sheep, then they will eat the young growth where they have already grazed before they will eat the older growth. They will also just avoid some areas (mine avoid thistles). So you could still have a problem using a big pasture


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## madness (Dec 6, 2006)

Ideally pasture rotations is better for both the pasture and the animals. You concentrate the animals in a smaller area and thus they fertilize that area with their poop. But you move them before the grass gets too low to a new area. The grass recovers and regrows stronger with the fertilizer. When left to their own devices our eat the grass that has the most shade throughout the day and leave behind any grass that is in between shrubby plants. If concentrated in a smaller area, they seem to eat it all pretty evenly.

You rotate as often as needed from the stocking ratio. I'm trying out once a week right now. I know some folks do it every day. That's just not in my schedule. I feel that once a month is too long though.

It would be best if the animals did not go back on the same pasture for an entire year. This is really only important for places that have hard freezes that kill off parasites over the winter. You end up with cleaner pasture. We don't have long freeze periods so I'm not sure how great this is going to be. But the pasture is improved by this method of grazing so at least there's that part!

I am by no means an expert on all this...just been readin' up...


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

for both pasture improvement and worm control, rotating pasture at around 4" is ideal.the trick for worm control is keeping them off for 4 weeks.i'm trying for 5 myself.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

I rotational graze and it's the only way I know how to farm.

Ideally, it should be done in conjucntion with cattle - cattle get their nutriment from the top half of the grass, sheep get theirs from the bottom part. Cattle will rip it down to 2-3" and get the best for them, sheep come in behind and clean it up and get the best for their needs. Also the worms that affect cattle don't affect sheep and vice-versa so cross grazing has advantages.

How often you move your sheep will depend on the size of your mob/s, the size of your paddocks and the growth rate in individual paddocks. My grazing pattern isn't hard and fast as hill paddocks take longer to come away than the river flats so may not have stock in them for 3-4 months at a time. Spring and Autumn also see a faster rotation to stop grass getting away.

And yes, you can set-stock - this is where you have fewer sheep in a larger area. My ewes are set-stocked for something like 5 months of the year leading up to lambing and not being moved again until the eldest lamb is about 3 months of age.

However, to be effective, rotational grazing still has to be done in conjunction with a good drench and perhaps you should look at having FEC done to give you some idea of what you should be doing in that department so that you can minimise drenching and help build up worm resistance. I drench my ewes once a year - four weeks before the commencement of lambing. Lambs get drenched at weaning, again 6 weeks later and any that don't get sent to the works get drenched on a needs to basis. I do have to watch for Barbers Pole and there are times when everything needs to be drenched for that - it seems to be one worm that sheep have a great difficulty building up resistance to and it is one I don't take chances with.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

ya,you still have to worm,but it gets less and less.leave a little lenght to yor grass when you move them out.your pasture will thank you by cleaning itself of the junk .

the trick is to wait untill the parasite cycle is complete before moving sheep back on.4 weeks is good but i belive 5 would be better,which is my goal.

http://www.tamaracksheep.com/


she is the queen of pasture managment.


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## WillfulGal (Oct 18, 2007)

Ok, right now I have three decent-sized pastures. A good plan might be to worm in the spring, then rotate pastures at every two or three weeks, assuming the grass does not get below 4"?

About worming--A local vet told me that I should worm every two weeks in the spring until the weather gets hot around July, then stop because worms in the soil die (assuming it gets hot and dry like it's supposed to) and can't survive over winter. Does that sound right? I have been using FAMACHA as a guide when to worm, but I did not realize until recently that that is not an indicator for all worms.

Do you have to rotate all year long if the weather is such that the worms in the soil die?


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## Caitedid (Jun 2, 2004)

You might Google ATTRA for more advice about rotational grazing. I'm studying diversified ag, and this is something that we're covering in class. I know also that rotating can allow you to stock more pounds per acre, and also allow you to graze earlier and later in the season reducing the amount of hay and feed you need. So there are reasons beyond pest control to take a look at rotational grazing. Caite


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

WillfulGal said:


> Ok, right now I have three decent-sized pastures. A good plan might be to worm in the spring, then rotate pastures at every two or three weeks, assuming the grass does not get below 4"?
> 
> About worming--A local vet told me that I should worm every two weeks in the spring until the weather gets hot around July, then stop because worms in the soil die (assuming it gets hot and dry like it's supposed to) and can't survive over winter. Does that sound right? I have been using FAMACHA as a guide when to worm, but I did not realize until recently that that is not an indicator for all worms.
> 
> Do you have to rotate all year long if the weather is such that the worms in the soil die?


Its hard for me to realy give an opinion without seeing your set up or knowing your ewes.I use to worm pre-lambing (march) and again in late june early july.And again in the fall.I had to,i would see bottle jaw other wise.Now i only worm pre-breeding,i may have pre-lambing this year but I don't remember for sure.Vicky on the goat board can help you on that,as she seems pretty hip to worms.Ya I hear ya on the FAMACHA,its of no use to ME.On the grass -its a learn as you go thing.Just jump in and do it,you'll sort it all out.When you see your pasture and ewes performance improving you know your doing it right.I have less then 12 acres,I have 21 ewes that this year lamb and weaned 77 lambs.All spring and summer(I sold all the lambs but 16 in june) I'v only let them on 6 acres,and kept the remaining 5 for bailing that I will feed in the winter -they will graze the 5 this fall/winter.I'v done this by rotating only .Zero grain.Zero alfala 
And I still havnt wormed yet.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> About worming--A local vet told me that I should worm every two weeks in the spring until the weather gets hot around July,


You should ONLY worm as NEEDED.
Worming on a "schedule" is how resistance to wormers is built up.

I have a lot of sheep that havent been wormed in YEARS with no problems.
If I have to worm one more than twice a year, I get rid of it. 
That way my herd is resistant to the worms, instead of making the worms resistant to the medications


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## PNP Katahdins (Oct 28, 2008)

:soap:

We're like Bearfoot, the less we worm the better the sheep do. Everyone gets wormed and a CD-T shot at shearing time in late March, this means the wool sheep and hair sheep, ewes and rams. No, the Katahdins don't get sheared, they just go through the handling chute with the woollies. We lamb in April and the lambs usually need worming in August or so. I've had the FAMACHA training several times but Paul likes to treat more than I do. Our main problems are barberpole worm and coccidiosis, which we treat a couple for every year. I keep track of who gets treated specially for what and don't keep them for breeding replacements.

So we've pretty well selected for sheep that fit our pasture-based system this way. Our former Katahdin neighbor was big on lots of grain and worming and cocci treatment and his lambs looked great. He's also out of sheep because he wasn't making any money with them. We'll stick with our way.

Too many vets have helped create this wormer resistance dilemma and don't like to explore alternative methods.

Peg


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Let me go off on a slight tangent- how are you guys worming? Our herd is healthy and between the coyotes and winters the weak ones seem to get weeded out. But until I can get them trained to electric netting they tend to hit the same ground day after day no matter where I push them. They cover 20 or so acres and feed where THEY think they ought to. So I'm concerned since the herd is growing (77 at the moment) and I'm interested in how the pros handle the worming. We're still in the "grab and wrestle" stage, no chutes yet.


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

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just testing


here is a picture from today.this ewe lamb was born and raised a quad ,pasture only.shes never been wormed,look at that clean tush.


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

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Another advantage to pasture rotation.... Tame Animals


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> We're still in the "grab and wrestle" stage


That's how we do it too, but I've never had more than 60 at one time.

If I can get a group inside the 12 X 12 stalls in the barn, I just push them against the wall instead of trying to sit them on their butts.

I check ewes when they lamb, since they tend to be easier to handle then


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## LibertyWool (Oct 23, 2008)

I read something this spring from the University of Maine about de-worning and pasture rotation. They now recommend not moving sheep to clean pastures right after de-worming (waiting 2-3 weeks). The rational being that only the drug resistant worms would be deposited on the clean pasture increasing the overall number of drug resistant parasites on your pasture. This is a major departure from treat and move, but it does make sense.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

LibertyWool said:


> I read something this spring from the University of Maine about de-worning and pasture rotation. They now recommend not moving sheep to clean pastures right after de-worming (waiting 2-3 weeks). The rational being that only the drug resistant worms would be deposited on the clean pasture increasing the overall number of drug resistant parasites on your pasture. This is a major departure from treat and move, but it does make sense.


Yeah, but then the sheep are picking up more worms AND the drug resistant worms. Maybe there's no "right" answer....


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Most folks dont have enough pasture to allow them to really get "clean" anyway.

Unless you have COLD Winters, worms will always be present.
The best thing there is to not let them graze too close to the ground
(Although that's what the sheep prefer)

And rotate your WORMERS too


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

LibertyWool said:


> I read something this spring from the University of Maine about de-worning and pasture rotation. They now recommend not moving sheep to clean pastures right after de-worming (waiting 2-3 weeks). The rational being that only the drug resistant worms would be deposited on the clean pasture increasing the overall number of drug resistant parasites on your pasture. This is a major departure from treat and move, but it does make sense.


This has been mooted in NZ for some years although I'm not too sure how many people actually do it. Over my years in farming I've seen it go from moving them to clean pasture, to leaving them in a holding paddock for 12 hours or so to empty out then moving to clean pasture, to putting them back into the paddock they came out of. I don't know that there is a right way of dealing with this either. Most times my sheep go on to clean pasture after drenching and I don't have drench resistance and from the condition of them I would say that I have a fairly high level of worm resistance which is what I'm wanting. 

Bear, in relation to that, I'm interested that you don't advocate letting them in or short grass. Not only is it what they prefer, they do better on it and maybe this is part of the secret. A sheep on optimum grass length is going to be in a healthier position to fight parasites than a sheep nibbling on long grass that doesn't have the nutriment in it for the species. My sheep would never see grass longer than 3" and they will chew it down to less than an inch before they're shifted with the exception being lambs. They are kept on the better paddocks until about a year old.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

We worm on a constant basis using Diatomaceous earth (DE) and haven't had to worm at all with a chemical wormer in over 2 years. Their grain has DE mixed in with it. My herd is a CLOSED HERD though and all were wormed with Cydectin before going on the DE. We try to get 5 weeks between pasture grazings, but that depends on rain. We have had almost no rain so mine have been eating a LOT OF HAY this past year.


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

Ronney said:


> My sheep would never see grass longer than 3" and they will chew it down to less than an inch before they're shifted with the exception being lambs.
> Ronnie


 Interesting-I never knew that grass was more nutritious at its base.What kind of grass can you graze down to less of an inch without suffering regrowth?I have orchard ,timothy,brome,bluegrass and fiscue.Except for the blue grass,if i grazed these lower then 3" ,I suffer from lack of regrowth .And if I did it in late Aug. I would face winter kill.


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