# Foie Gras Banned in NYC



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...b64&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook

I love the stuff but almost never eat it. Maybe once every ten years. Poor geese. Still....so goood.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I've never had it, and never wanted it. Geese force fed corn through a feeding tube to make their liver fattier is disgusting.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-new-york-foiesgras-idUSKBN1X92BP?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5dba128a4c15b80001493b64&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook
> 
> I love the stuff but almost never eat it. Maybe once every ten years. Poor geese. Still....so goood.


I've had it once, it was good.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> I've never had it, and never wanted it. Geese force fed corn through a feeding tube to make their liver fattier is disgusting.


And yet you eat veal. Poor baby calves.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Nothing any more cruel with veal calves than a steer raised for beef. Force feeding a Goose is.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Poor _naturally fed_ _on milk_ baby calves... I also eat poor _naturally fed on milk _baby lambs too. I do not eat unnaturally force fed corn through a feeding tube goose liver.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Poor _naturally fed_ _on milk_ baby calves... I also eat poor _naturally fed on milk _baby lambs too. I do not eat unnaturally force fed corn through a feeding tube geese.


No worries. I doubt they serve it at Chili’s anyway.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

You really owe yourself to try some baby calf liver after it has been free choice fed (which means you don't have to force feed it with a tube, it will stuff itself just as full) for about 8 to 12 weeks.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> You really owe yourself to try some baby calf liver after it has been free choice fed (which means you don't have to force feed it with a tube, it will stuff itself just as full) for about 8 to 12 weeks.


I like baby calf's liver, as long as it's naturally raised and is cooked with thick bacon.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

I love veal. I love foie gras. There was a long decade that I refused to eat either one. Then it hit me, they are still raising veal calves and force feeding geese. 

Local governments banning it is even more vain and useless. I am confident plenty of people in NYC are still eating foie gras, whether it is banned or not.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Hiro said:


> I love veal. I love foie gras. There was a long decade that I refused to eat either one. Then it hit me, they are still raising veal calves and force feeding geese.
> 
> Local governments banning it is even more vain and useless. I am confident plenty of people in NYC are still eating foie gras, whether it is banned or not.


I imagine they will still sell foie gras in NYC, the vain, rich, and pretentious don't care about rules or laws.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Irish Pixie said:


> I imagine they will still sell foie gras in NYC, the vain, rich, and pretentious don't care about rules or laws.


Precisely. Do as I say, not as I do. Anyone check the fridge of the folks that passed that law?


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

As long as they don't force feed them with a plastic straw.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

https://www.humanesociety.org/sites...psis-force-feeding-duck-and-goose-welfare.pdf

Disgusting practice.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

And they have to feed them organic, locally sourced, non GMO feed.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

doozie said:


> https://www.humanesociety.org/sites...psis-force-feeding-duck-and-goose-welfare.pdf
> 
> Disgusting practice.


Maybe but I bet it isn't nearly as bad as we humans do in pharmaceutical and cosmetic labs. We humans are a cruel species. 

At least the veil and fois gras (sp) go toward sustenance. Not just killed and discarded like test subjects.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

You can get products not tested on animals or other cruelty-free brands. Granted, I've no idea how ardent/honest the inspecting is for those places. I've never eaten liver from any source and I'm okay with that. There will probably be some black market source for foie gras.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

I guess they force feed just to make it happen faster. Because ducks and geese will gobble corn of their own free will. 

This is an opportunity. Somebody will come up with a feed that gets the job done that is palatable to the fowl. Think show feed. Or selected genetics for gluttony ie meat chickens.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> I imagine they will still sell foie gras in NYC, the vain, rich, and pretentious don't care about rules or laws.


I've noticed a lot of the poor and down trodden don't care much about rules or laws either. Just sayin.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

MO_cows said:


> I guess they force feed just to make it happen faster. Because ducks and geese will gobble corn of their own free will.
> 
> This is an opportunity. Somebody will come up with a feed that gets the job done that is palatable to the fowl. Think show feed. Or selected genetics for gluttony ie meat chickens.



There is a small company in Spain that produces without force feeding. He believes the secret to the chemical change was allowing his birds to breed with wild species. He supplies sufficient feed for his birds to gorge at will and believes that he gets the required results based on his semi wild birds storing fat for migration. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesal...sh-farm-makes-foie-gras-without-force-feeding


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Doggone it. Shot down again. I was gonna go into the Non-GMO cracker business.....

geo


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

wr said:


> There is a small company in Spain that produces without force feeding. He believes the secret to the chemical change was allowing his birds to breed with wild species. He supplies sufficient feed for his birds to gorge at will and believes that he gets the required results based on his semi wild birds storing fat for migration.
> 
> https://www.npr.org/sections/thesal...sh-farm-makes-foie-gras-without-force-feeding


That was a really interesting link!


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

That is a great link.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I've never eaten it, but I'd probably like it.
They seem to be teaching people in New York that the government will decide what you eat, what you own, where you live, where you work, etc, and the good people follow along willingly, knowing their politicians have only the purest of intentions.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

So, a practice that has gone on for thousands of years, that takes advantage of waterfowl's natural ability to store a lot of fat in their liver in preparation for migration, which makes the liver taste better is going to be symbolically outlawed. The few people that consume the product are not going to have any, and the thousands of people that never consumed it are causing that outcome. What ever happened to, if you don't like foie gras, don't eat foie gras? Seems like that would be applicable. Is this law going to cause less ducks to die? Answer, no, probably more (it will take more livers using alternative methods, and more livers will not make the grade). Ridiculous animal rights extremism at work. The logic and rationale that they are using could be applied to any part of modern livestock farming.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

As a rule I generally don't eat anything over twenty bucks a meal unless I cook it myself. I spent thirty bucks years ago on a "very special chefs" fish meal. I got 4 ounces of tilapia with garlic on it and a few pieces of parsley. Only have to show me once and I learn my lesson. 

Not even sure a Texan can pronounce it correctly anyway.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

barnbilder said:


> So, a practice that has gone on for thousands of years, that takes advantage of waterfowl's natural ability to store a lot of fat in their liver in preparation for migration, which makes the liver taste better is going to be symbolically outlawed. The few people that consume the product are not going to have any, and the thousands of people that never consumed it are causing that outcome. What ever happened to, if you don't like foie gras, don't eat foie gras? Seems like that would be applicable. Is this law going to cause less ducks to die? Answer, no, probably more (it will take more livers using alternative methods, and more livers will not make the grade). Ridiculous animal rights extremism at work. The logic and rationale that they are using could be applied to any part of modern livestock farming.


Was my thought too. Everyone happy about this will get burned later by something they like.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

mreynolds said:


> As a rule I generally don't eat anything over twenty bucks a meal unless I cook it myself. I spent thirty bucks years ago on a "very special chefs" fish meal. I got 4 ounces of tilapia with garlic on it and a few pieces of parsley. Only have to show me once and I learn my lesson.
> 
> Not even sure a Texan can pronounce it correctly anyway.


I'm sure the pretentious people that eat bougie foie gras will find a way to get their fix.

ETA: It's been completely banned in California since 2012. No rioting.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

It costs 50 to 60.00 dollars a pound. How many people here are eating it on a regular basis?

It is proven that you can get it from sources that are not cruel to the animal. Get it from there. I bet NY would have no problem with adjusting their laws to reflect that. If you really need this in your life force-feed your own geese. That should help you enjoy it.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

mreynolds said:


> Not even sure a Texan can pronounce it correctly anyway.


Y'all can't say "Goose liver"?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Y'all can't say "Goose liver"?


If I hold my mouth just right.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm sure the pretentious people that eat bougie foie gras will find a way to get their fix.
> 
> ETA: It's been completely banned in California since 2012. No rioting.


So, people who like a certain food are pretentious?
And just color me shocked that California is another place that tells people what they can eat or can't.
Seriously, who ties their shoes for them?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> It costs 50 to 60.00 dollars a pound. How many people here are eating it on a regular basis?
> 
> It is proven that you can get it from sources that are not cruel to the animal. Get it from there. I bet NY would have no problem with adjusting their laws to reflect that. If you really need this in your life force-feed your own geese. That should help you enjoy it.


Every goose I ever met was a jerk.
If they weren't terrorizing kids, they were making the porch slippery.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> Seriously, who ties their shoes for them?


They use Velcro


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

These birds are housed and raised exactly like every commercial broiler chicken for the first few weeks. Then they are turned out on a lush pasture with unlimited feed, usually carrots. This expands their esophagus and craw, exactly like every wild goose that ever lived when they switch from aquatic invertebrates to grass and grains. Then they are rehoused and switched to a grain diet. As every goose farmer since the ancient egyptians that started the practice has known, one or two bullies will rule the feed pan, so since the birds have an enlarged esophagus naturally, they put a funnel in their mouth and weigh in an exact dose of food. Less waste, optimum growth, nice fat liverevery time, for thousands of years. Alternative methods will lead to extra birds being raised because many of the livers will not make the grade, and will go for pet food or something. If rich people want it, the demand will be met, and it doesn't matter how much food and birds get wasted to meet that demand. The exact same arguments against this practice, like "it's not natural" It's cruel" etc. can and have been applied to most facets of animal ownership and use by the same nuts. The nuts wouldn't be so bad, but the misinformed that jump on board with them are what is really dangerous. The answer is and always has been very simple, if you don't like a practice, don't personally support that practice. Somewhere there is a Canadian Foie Gras producer that will shut down over this and rich people in NYC will still eat Foie Gras, possibly from a country with far less animal welfare oversight than Canada.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)




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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Those geese don't get to decide what they want to eat. It is forced down their throats.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Thank you. I was just going to add the same video. 

I wonder if force feeding a calf, lamb, etc. like that would be AOK with folks too? It's not with me. I don't think animals have rights either, but we do have the responsibility to properly care for them.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Those geese don't get to decide what they want to eat. It is forced down their throats.


No animals owned by humans "get to decide" what they eat.
The world isn't a Disney movie.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm sure the pretentious people that eat bougie foie gras will find a way to get their fix.
> 
> ETA: It's been completely banned in California since 2012. No rioting.


I'm not sure how you can assume that anyone who eats foie gras is pretentious. It's not something I enjoy but the article I posted seemed to indicate that quite a few people eat it because they like it. Not because they feel their eating habits impress someone else.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Thank you. I was just going to add the same video.
> 
> I wonder if force feeding a calf, lamb, etc. like that would be AOK with folks too? It's not with me. I don't think animals have rights either, but we do have the responsibility to properly care for them.


I don't feel it's overly cool to restrict a calf's ability to frolic in the sunshine so someone can eat white veal but I don't believe that insulting those that do brings much to conversation.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> I don't feel it's overly cool to restrict a calf's ability to frolic in the sunshine so someone can eat white veal but I don't believe that insulting those that do brings much to conversation.


What do you think about the Chilis comment? Does it bring something to the conversation?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Those geese don't get to decide what they want to eat. It is forced down their throats.


Apparently, New Yorkers and Californians don't get to decide what they want to eat eaither


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> Apparently, New Yorkers and Californians don't get to decide what they want to eat eaither


Not sure about New York but Californias law does not say they can't eat it. It just prohibits the force-feeding and sale of products that are the result of force-feeding.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> Apparently, New Yorkers and Californians don't get to decide what they want to eat eaither


The state of California banned sale and production of foie gras in 2012. The *City of New York* has banned the sale of foie gras in grocery stores and restaurants in 2022. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if a humane way of fatting a goose's liver is implemented, the ban will never go into effect.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm sure the pretentious people that eat bougie foie gras will find a way to get their fix.
> 
> ETA: It's been completely banned in California since 2012. No rioting.


Yes, those pretentious people really get on my last nerve. 

I'm surprised Cali didn't ban it in the '60's. What too them so long?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> The state of California banned sale and production of foie gras in 2012. The *City of New York* has banned the sale of foie gras in grocery stores and restaurants in 2022. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if a humane way of fatting a goose's liver is implemented, the ban will never go into effect.


Don't be so sure.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Cornhusker said:


> Apparently, New Yorkers and Californians don't get to decide what they want to eat eaither


LMAO dude. That's funny right there. I don't care who you are.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

It seems awfully pretentious to suddenly care about how goose livers are fed


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> It seems awfully pretentious to suddenly care about how goose livers are fed


Well good then, that can't apply to anyone here because you don't have a proof that anyone here, just suddenly cares.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> It seems awfully pretentious to suddenly care about how goose livers are fed


The *goose* is force fed. Did you see the video? Would you be AOK with force feeding calves, lambs, etc.? Or is it just this subject, at this time, that is important to you?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> The *goose* is force fed. Did you see the video? Would you be AOK with force feeding calves, lambs, etc.? Or is it just this subject, at this time, that is important to you?


I don't personally like the idea of force feeding geese, that's why I don't do it.
What I do have a problem with is government chipping away at our rights, telling us what to eat, how to stand, where to sit, what kind of straw to use, just chip chip chipping away at our independence.
Any attempt to control our lives and infringe our liberty is not "AOK" with me.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Well good then, that can't apply to anyone here because you don't have a proof that anyone here, just suddenly cares.


Where's the evidence that people who eat goose liver are pretentious?
Surely you must have some or you would be demanding proof of their pretentiousness.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> I don't personally like the idea of force feeding geese, that's why I don't do it.
> What I do have a problem with is government chipping away at our rights, telling us what to eat, how to stand, where to sit, what kind of straw to use, just chip chip chipping away at our independence.
> Any attempt to control our lives and infringe our liberty is not "AOK" with me.


So one state and one city that you don't live in, and I'll betcha would never live in, invoke a ban on something, and you're worried about the government chipping away at your rights? Got it.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> Where's the evidence that people who eat goose liver are pretentious?
> Surely you must have some or you would be demanding proof of their pretentiousness.


That was *my* opinion. As far as I know no one is forced to prove their opinion, at least not yet.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> Where's the evidence that people who eat goose liver are pretentious?
> Surely you must have some or you would be demanding proof of their pretentiousness.


That was an opinion, I believe based on the price of the product. Your opinion was based on timing as you stated, and I am sure if you have proof of that timing you would provide it to back it up.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> That was *my* opinion. As far as I know no one is forced to prove their opinion, at least not yet.


I was asked to


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> That was an opinion, I believe based on the price of the product. Your opinion was based on timing as you stated, and I am sure if you have proof of that timing you would provide it to back it up.


Just my opinion, and since this isn't New York or California, people like me can still have one.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> Just my opinion, and since this isn't New York or California, people like me can still have one.


Good we have that straight. It is my opinion that you were talking about someone other than HT posters as well.


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

and the quality of HT conversations goes down another notch...


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> So one state and one city that you don't live in, and I'll betcha would never live in, invoke a ban on something, and you're worried about the government chipping away at your rights? Got it.


California and New York are proving grounds for liberal policy.
They know the people are conditioned to just take whatever abuses the government dishes out, and pretty soon, the lunacy will spread.
What's next on the list, fried chicken?
Mountain oysters?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Good we have that straight. It is my opinion that you were talking about someone other than HT posters as well.


You are entitled to your opinion, I don't have to agree.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Actual they do. They get to decide how much to eat
> 
> 
> What do you think about the Chilis comment? Does it bring something to the conversation?


I've raised cattle for a lot of years and calves seem to enjoy green grass, which don't believe is a menu option offered in their pens and they do seem to enjoy being raised with more space and their mothers. 

Just because someone enjoys something we don't care for, doesn't make them a jerk or pretentious. Most of the people I know who do enjoy Foie Gras are normal working people, usually of European descent but they also enjoy horse steak as well. 

We really can't convince people to change their eating habits if we aren't targeting the right group.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> I've raised cattle for a lot of years and calves seem to enjoy green grass, which don't believe is a menu option offered in their pens and they do seem to enjoy being raised with more space and their mothers.
> 
> Just because someone enjoys something we don't care for, doesn't make them a jerk or pretentious. Most of the people I know who do enjoy Foie Gras are normal working people, usually of European descent but they also enjoy horse steak as well.
> 
> We really can't convince people to change their eating habits if we aren't targeting the right group.


I never called them pretentious but I was not asking that. I was asking if you also found the comment that I found demeaning about Chilis brings something to the conversation.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> So two states that you don't live in, and I'll betcha would never live in, invoke a ban on something, and you're worried about the government chipping away at your rights? Got it.


Yes. It was the city council that did it. It wasn't put up for vote. That means a few people in government see deciding what the rest eat.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> California and New York are proving grounds for liberal policy.
> They know the people are conditioned to just take whatever abuses the government dishes out, and pretty soon, the lunacy will spread.
> What's next on the list, fried chicken?
> Mountain oysters?


Yes, fried chicken and mountain oysters are certainly on the liberal soon to be banned list.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yes, fried chicken and mountain oysters are certainly on the liberal soon to be banned list.


LOL!!!!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

If California serves as our example, it's my understanding that chefs have found they can skirt the laws by offering the same product as a gift for their clients. 

It's my understanding it's a bit like places skirting raw milk laws. Some invest in a partnership of a milk cow they never touch and others spend money to buy a pail or container with free contents.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I love it. One of my favorite things to eat. You can't eat much. It is so rich.

I have seen two distinct types. One is drier, almost looks like potted meat. The other is very gelatinous. 

I make my own. It is not quite the same, but it is good enough. I use chicken liver. 

Outlawing it is just another PC encroachment. Simply look here on HT who supports the ban. People are consistent about where they line up on things. Seems to rarely be different. There seems to be two minds on every subject. The left and the right mind battle continues.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I make my own chicken liver pate too, luscious stuff.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

anniew said:


> and the quality of HT conversations goes down another notch...


It's the same as it ever was.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> People are *consistent* about where they line up on things. Seems to rarely be different. There seems to be two minds on every subject. The left and the right mind battle continues.


Patterns never change, it seems.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I love it. One of my favorite things to eat. You can't eat much. It is so rich.
> 
> I have seen two distinct types. One is drier, almost looks like potted meat. The other is very gelatinous.
> 
> ...





no really said:


> I make my own chicken liver pate too, luscious stuff.


Are the chickens force fed corn to make the pate? If not, great. This horrible liberal divisionist is only interested in the inhumane way that foie gras is made.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> Are the chickens force fed corn to make the pate? If not, great. This horrible liberal divisionist is only interested in the inhumane way that foie gras is made.


LOL, the chickens are fed a variety of feed corn included, than I butcher them, usually with an ax.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

no really said:


> LOL, the chickens are fed a variety of feed corn included, than I butcher them, usually with an ax.


Then this horrible liberal divisionist says enjoy your pate. What is your choice- toast points, crackers, or something else?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> Then this horrible liberal divisionist says enjoy your pate. What is your choice- toast points, crackers, or something else?


Depends on what's available naan bread is a favorite though.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> I love it. One of my favorite things to eat. You can't eat much. It is so rich.
> 
> I have seen two distinct types. One is drier, almost looks like potted meat. The other is very gelatinous.
> 
> ...


I'm not fond of it but I know people who. As a livestock producer, I have done a fair bit of research on the veal industry and the foie gras industry over the years, just to satisfy my own curiosity. 

As always, I research both sides and came up with some interesting results. It seems to me that stressed animals tend to get sick or die and I can't find any statistics for unusually high mortality rates in foie gras industry. 

The chemical reaction creating the enlarged liver seems to be a natural for wild birds that migrate and when that didn't satisfy my curiosity, I checked to see if Temple Grandin had thoughts on the matter. 

Her thoughts seem to focus on if the birds flock to the feeding equipment or away and after watching countless videos. The answer seems to be neither. The birds don't seem to rush for feeding but they also don't seem to flee in fear either. 

Reading has also led me to understand that the birds do not have a gag reflex and the feeding apparatus creates bad optics but does not cause pain or discomfort. 

I would see it as similar to tubing a calf. I grew up on a ranch, my grandparents also ranched and I've raised cattle as well and to this day, tubing has a high ick factor for me. I know how to tube and I know why we tube but I'm also the person will spend countless hours trying to save a calf the hard way than to just crack out the tubing equipment for no other reason that tubing is bad optics for me.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

wr said:


> I'm not fond of it but I know people who. As a livestock producer, I have done a fair bit of research on the veal industry and the foie gras industry over the years, just to satisfy my own curiosity.
> 
> As always, I research both sides and came up with some interesting results. It seems to me that stressed animals tend to get sick or die and I can't find any statistics for unusually high mortality rates in foie gras industry.
> 
> ...


I knew a guy that raised parrots. He fed the babies like the mother does by shoving it down their mouth. He used an eyedropper to do it with.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yes, fried chicken and mountain oysters are certainly on the liberal soon to be banned list.


It may not be chicken or oysters but I can I've seen the poultry industry impacted and could see a time when certain types of slaughter could be banned in the future.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

mreynolds said:


> I knew a guy that raised parrots. He fed the babies like the mother does by shoving it down their mouth. He used an eyedropper to do it with.


My daughter's pigeons just hatched their first chicks and she was worried that if their parents didn't vomit into their mouths she'd have to dropper feed them. 

Thankfully the parents are good vomiters, so we're not having to force feed the chicks. I think they're called chicks? Need to get up to speed on my pigeon nomenclature. By the way, chickens _are_ a gateway drug, apparently.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

These birds don't look like they want to have that tube forced down their mouths.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Mish said:


> I think they're called chicks?


They are called "squab" if you eat them just before they are fully feathered. 
They go quite well with Foie Gras and a nice red wine.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> I knew a guy that raised parrots. He fed the babies like the mother does by shoving it down their mouth. He used an eyedropper to do it with.


Out to be a law against that.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They are called "squab" if you eat them just before they are fully feathered.
> They go quite well with Foie Gras and a nice red wine.


Haha - she just brought in pictures she took of them yesterday and today so she could show me how much they grew in just one day. I said they were just about eating size and she got really offended


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yes, fried chicken and mountain oysters are certainly on the liberal soon to be banned list.


Just curious here... But why would any sane person be apposed to either one?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> These birds don't look like they want to have that tube forced down their mouths.


Most fowl don't like being handled.
I think you tend to anthropomorphize.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Just curious here... But why would any sane person be apposed to either one?


I met a lady who grew up in upstate NY and she never had fried chicken as a kid. Sad


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Mish said:


> I said they were just about eating size and she got really offended


LOL
It's truly amazing how fast they can grow.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

HDRider said:


> I met a lady who grew up in upstate NY and she never had fried chicken as a kid. Sad


Sad is right poor kid!!!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

no really said:


> Sad is right poor kid!!!


I will admit, I was in my early 20s before I had a Reuben or a good pastrami on rye, or cheesecake even.

I grew up at the far end of a cotton field.

But, I grew up on world class fried chicken.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

There is no need to force-feed these animals to get good product. This is the same farm that WR talked about previously. Just because it has been done one way in the past does not mean that the cruel force-feeding need continue.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> I met a lady who grew up in upstate NY and she never had fried chicken as a kid. Sad


Prolly never had gravy made with the drippings then either. I'd label that as child neglect at minimum if not out right abuse!


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

.


painterswife said:


> There is no need to force-feed these animals to get good product. This is the same farm that WR talked about previously. Just because it has been done one way in the past does not mean that the cruel force-feeding need continue.


"All of the taste, none of the cruelty"


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Mish said:


> My daughter's pigeons just hatched their first chicks and she was worried that if their parents didn't vomit into their mouths she'd have to dropper feed them.
> 
> Thankfully the parents are good vomiters, so we're not having to force feed the chicks. I think they're called chicks? Need to get up to speed on my pigeon nomenclature. By the way, chickens _are_ a gateway drug, apparently.


Does she eat squab?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

No worries. That Gras family has always been nothing but trouble. Mardi Gras and Foie are two of the worst.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

mreynolds said:


> Does she eat squab?


Nope. And since we got chickens she's stopped eating chicken and eggs. She wants to move to a farm but I told her we can't because she won't have anything left she'll eat.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Just because it has been done one way in the past *does not mean* that the cruel force-feeding need continue.


Just because you don't like it does not mean it has to stop.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

mreynolds said:


> That Gras family has always been *nothing but trouble*. Mardi Gras and Foie are two of the worst.


Don't forget Smokin Gras, which makes you want to eat extra fat Goose Liver


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> I met a lady who grew up in upstate NY and she never had fried chicken as a kid. Sad


I haven't had it since my grandmother died and I wish I had been old enough to learn her secret recipe.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Just because you don't like it does not mean it has to stop.


no kidding. I hate the factory farming of chicken and pork and I eat mostly a plant based diet. The little meat I eat is pastured raised locally. So if I eat foie gras once a decade and a keto dieter eats meat once or twice daily, who contributes more to animal suffering?
BTW. The same place that the video of force feeding of geese came from also has videos of how chicken and pigs are raised. So if you’re worried about one, you’d think you’d be worried about the other.
https://www.youtube.com/user/animalequality/videos

Unless, of course we’re dealing with manufactured outrage designed to attract as much attention to certain posters as they can possibly get.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

This is a good way to observe how animal rights works. The animals in the shock video, like most birds raised for foie gras happen to be mule ducks. They are half muscovy and half pekin. They are Naturally very skittish and as hard to handle as the muscovy side of their genetic equation. So any Temple Grandiose approach to viewing their behavior is invalid. This is one point of reference often used by detractors of the practice. The other point of refernce they use is esophageal irritation. Wild waterfowl can show signs of esophageal irritation as they gorge on vast quantities of roughage which stretches their esophagus and craw. This is how they use misleading data as evidence of abuse.

The mule ducks are used because they approach the growth rate of broiler chickens, which have been selectively bred for fast growth, the broiler chickens gorge naturally. The ducks will gorge naturally, but due to their nature and eating habits it is much more difficult and messy compared to broiler chickens. They waste a lot of food by soiling it. There is also the issue of competition, lower ranking flock members having to resort to only soiled food, or none at all. Health problems, poor growth and uneven grading, all problems. So since the time ancient Egyptians discovered they could pen geese and ducks to be fattened and shovel feed down their gullets without causing unacceptable mortality, people with a hankering for fat goose have raised them in this manner.

So you have people saying they can do it "humanely". They undoubtedly can't do what passes for humane efficiently. Poor use of our resources is not humane to our environment, and causes suffering to many species that might be vulnerable. These people add fuel to the fire, not realizing that once you give into animal rights extremists, they have no aversion to turning on people that once helped them. Do the humane foie gras raisers and pastured broiler chicken farmers actually think that animal rights extremists won't turn on them the second the last broiler house closes it's doors? Never negotiate with terrorists, good rule to live by, but evidently never practiced in NY and CA.

So you have some shock videos, Temple Grandiose observations, and radical extremists have convinced a bunch of people that never heard of foie gras that there should be public outcry and the practice should be outlawed at once. New York and California will lead the charge. Then they will push for the banning of the practice in all fifty states. Maybe make having equipment related to the practice a felony. Then it's on to the next thing on the list. Rodeos, circus animals, horse racing, pet ownership, it's all on the list. And people who do each of these things will point out how inhumane each one of these practices is compared to their method of animal use/enjoyment.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I was woke, but I think I will go back to sleep


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Don't forget Smokin Gras, which makes you want to eat extra fat Goose Liver


Yeah, but he is always too busy eating chips to do anyone any harm.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

I read page 1 and skipped to page 6. so if I am repeating anything, sorry in advance.
Did you know there is a method of veal raising where the calf is fed , same as any other veal calf, but it is suspended in a harness so that it cannot walk around and make tough muscle.
just saying.
some are raised in total darkness, also.
So which kind are you eating ?
goose liver does not have to come from a force fed goose.
I have raised many geese. Free choice fed, and free ranging. I never knew any to over eat..


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion...0191028-gznqalibtzhq7mbbq5g4o4mwsu-story.html



> *A foie gras ban will harm humans, and it won’t help ducks*
> 
> This week, the New York City Council plans to vote in favor of a ban on selling foie gras within the five boroughs. This legislation is an unfair assault on local farmers, one that’s based on a massive misinformation campaign by animal rights activists. Poorly considered policy based on lies could cost the Catskill region more than *400 jobs and millions in revenue* both inside and outside of New York City.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The majority of those lost 400 jobs are immigrant workers. Workers who have to work long hours each day for 22 straight days with no time off. That is because when they are assigned to the ducks the same worker must fee them for 22 straight days, three times a day. Each worker is responsible for feeding 200 to 300 ducks three times a day. They get no overtime or benefits because they are immigrant workers. 

"Three times a day, Ms. Gonzales works to fatten the 350 ducks assigned to her, usually taking less than 30 seconds to feed each one. A short, round-faced woman with ruddy cheeks, Ms. Gonzales moves slowly from pen to pen, pressing a finger under each bird's bill to open its mouth. She then uses a funnel and a small motor to force cornmeal, up to a pound each feeding, into a plastic tube and down the ducks' throats. The farm's owners say the tube does not hurt because the birds have calcified esophagi.

Many nights she sleeps only four hours, from 1:30 to 5:30 a.m., because the schedule often requires her to feed the ducks from 10 p.m. to 1 a.m., then 6 to 9 a.m., and again in the afternoon -- more than 1,000 feedings a day.

''When you work 30 days straight, you lose out on a lot,'' said Ms. Gonzales, 29, the mother of two boys, 10 and 3. ''I'd like to have more time to spend with my children. And there's never time to go to church."

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/02/...complain-but-owner-cites-stress-on-ducks.html


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

painterswife said:


> The majority of those lost 400 jobs are immigrant workers. Workers who have to work long hours each day for 22 straight days with no time off. That is because when they are assigned to the ducks the same worker must fee them for 22 straight days, three times a day. Each worker is responsible for feeding 200 to 300 ducks three times a day. They get no overtime or benefits because they are immigrant workers.
> 
> "Three times a day, Ms. Gonzales works to fatten the 350 ducks assigned to her, usually taking less than 30 seconds to feed each one. A short, round-faced woman with ruddy cheeks, Ms. Gonzales moves slowly from pen to pen, pressing a finger under each bird's bill to open its mouth. She then uses a funnel and a small motor to force cornmeal, up to a pound each feeding, into a plastic tube and down the ducks' throats. The farm's owners say the tube does not hurt because the birds have calcified esophagi.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't want immigrants having jobs. Dirty immigrants, let them starve! We should rescue the ducks and keep them until the end of their days, and tax rich people that would even think of the cruelty of eating foie gras to care for them. And we can feed them ground up immigrants, since we don't like them and don't want them to have a job.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> The majority of those lost 400 jobs are immigrant workers. Workers who have to work long hours each day for 22 straight days with no time off. That is because when they are assigned to the ducks the same worker must fee them for 22 straight days, three times a day. Each worker is responsible for feeding 200 to 300 ducks three times a day. They get no overtime or benefits because they are immigrant workers.
> 
> "Three times a day, Ms. Gonzales works to fatten the 350 ducks assigned to her, usually taking less than 30 seconds to feed each one. A short, round-faced woman with ruddy cheeks, Ms. Gonzales moves slowly from pen to pen, pressing a finger under each bird's bill to open its mouth. She then uses a funnel and a small motor to force cornmeal, up to a pound each feeding, into a plastic tube and down the ducks' throats. *The farm's owners say the tube does not hurt because the birds have calcified esophagi.*
> 
> ...


This is ridiculous. What caused the esophagus to calcify? Could it be having a plastic tube shoved down it's throat three times a day for 22 straight days? I'll bet dollars to donuts that hurts horribly at first.

If the NY industry switched to the humane way of fattening for foie gras there wouldn't be an issue. In my opinion.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> Wouldn't want immigrants having jobs. Dirty immigrants, let them starve! We should rescue the ducks and keep them until the end of their days, and tax rich people that would even think of the cruelty of eating foie gras to care for them. And we can feed them ground up immigrants, since we don't like them and don't want them to have a job.


I sure hope you are not implying that your statement is how I feel about the situation. I am all for immigrant workers, I just believe that those employing them should not be able to sidestep the employment laws to pad their bottom line.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> This is ridiculous. What caused the esophagus to calcify? Could it be having a plastic tube shoved down it's throat three times a day for 22 straight days? I'll bet dollars to donuts that type hurts horribly at first.
> 
> If the NY industry switched to the humane way of fattening for foie gras there wouldn't be an issue. In my opinion.


It is the bodies response to inflammation. Often used as proof of cruelty in efforts to condemn foie gras production. Also happens in wild geese as they eat huge amounts of rough feed, like grain, in an effort to store copious amounts of fat in their livers in preparation for migration.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

painterswife said:


> I sure hope you are not implying that your statement is how I feel about the situation. I am all for immigrant workers, I just believe that those employing them should not be able to sidestep the employment laws to pad their bottom line.


They are considered seasonal workers, like many farm laborers employed throughout modern agriculture. They work during harvest, often long hours. Farmers don't have to pay such workers overtime. They signed up to work the season and know what they signed up for. Such allowances are in place to allow food to be sold cheaply. If farmers were allowed to charge enough money to pay seasonal workers overtime, there would be much public outcry over food prices. There would also be less need for immigrants (in the farming industry, food service industry would probably hire more, to offset higher food prices).


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I know, we would not want to add anything to the price of Foie Gras. It is already over 50.00 a pound and we don't want the workers to have a day off or get good sleep each day. It is such a needed item and those horrible working conditions and the need to import workers to do that crappy job is needed.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> This is ridiculous. What caused the esophagus to calcify? Could it be having a plastic tube shoved down it's throat three times a day for 22 straight days? I'll bet dollars to donuts that hurts horribly at first.
> 
> If the NY industry switched to the humane way of fattening for foie gras there wouldn't be an issue. In my opinion.


The humane way of fattening may very well be an issue. One of the things I noticed in the article was that the farm in the article I posted, indicated that they were allowing their birds to breed with wild birds. Disease would be a very real concern for me and I would suspect that one sick wild bird could literally wipe out an entire flock fairly quickly.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Let’s ask any steer how inhumane he thinks the foie gras process is?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I Watched the video a few times before I finally understood what the problem was. 
These geese aren’t in any particular distress. 
Geese are just like people they don’t like to be forced do it do anything but this is not a goose that is vigorously objecting, this is just a goose that’s well being a goose.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> It is already over 50.00 a pound and we don't want the workers to have a day off or get good sleep each day.


There's no logical reason one person would have to feed the same ducks the entire time.
They still are only working 9 hours out of each 24.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Informative.
And he interviews a vet that explains duck/geese physiology.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

https://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fsb/0804/gallery.forbidden_foods.fsb/4.html

*"Foie Gras
Banned in: Chicago*

Fans of foie gras celebrate its luxurious taste and texture, but animal rights advocates decry the cruelty of force-feeding geese and ducks via a feeding tube to enlarge their livers before slaughter. In 2006, the Chicago City Council agreed with the protestors and banned the retail sale of foie gras. 
*
(Update: In May 2008, the council reversed course and lifted the ban.)*

The law is enforced by citizen complaint, and restaurateurs risk fines of up to $500 per violation. There is a loophole, however: While it's illegal to sell foie gras, it's not illegal to give it away, so restaurants and hotels just serve foie under the umbrella of other menu items.

*"We sell more than ever now,"* Jimmy Florek, owner of Chicago Game & Gourmet, an epicurean meat and produce supplier. While he doesn't personally approve of foie gras, he's happy to serve the market: "If they don't buy it from me, they'll just buy it from someone else."

California has enacted a similar ban that takes effect in 2012.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Those geese don't get to decide what they want to eat. It is forced down their throats.


They are food. Raised, fed, killed to be eaten. Food doesn't have rights. Should cattle and horses not be allowed to graze, because the grass has rights?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> I read page 1 and skipped to page 6. so if I am repeating anything, sorry in advance.
> Did you know there is a method of veal raising where the calf is fed , same as any other veal calf, but it is suspended in a harness so that it cannot walk around and make tough muscle.
> just saying.
> some are raised in total darkness, also.
> ...


Being cruel to animals is only bad if you don't like that particular food.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lobsters and Crabs are boiled alive....


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Lobsters and Crabs are boiled alive....


I am more humane with my crabs. I just clean then as soon as they come out of the water. I have a special way of cooking them buggers.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> That seems to nicely sum this up.
> Though I do love veal but don’t eat it because I haven’t seen anyway it’s raised that isn’t cruel to the calves.
> If I’m an animal abuser because I eat foie gras once every ten to twenty years then I’ll live with it.


What would you propose one do with 10 million male dairy calves each year?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> What would you propose one do with 10 million male dairy calves each year?


Oh, I agree.
But I’m not telling people what to eat or what not to eat like some folks here. I don’t eat veal but I certainly don’t tell others not to eat it or try to ban it.
If someone truly doesn’t want to contribute to animal suffering then I don’t quite see how they can in good conscience follow a keto diet.
I raised sheep and hogs in as humane a way as we could but it’s still pretty terrible when they go to be butchered.
But I suspect what we have on this thread is a few virtue signalers who want to castigate others but don’t follow a consistent philosophical lifestyle themselves. It’s a bit hypocritical.


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## dyrne (Feb 22, 2015)

Probably the vast majority of holstein bull calves are grown out as steers on pasture I would think. I can't imagine there is much call for veal -in the states at least. I don't think there's anything shameful in trying to raise animals with the goal being as little suffering as possible. I want the way I raise mine to be kind of beautiful when looking back on it and I think on the whole, that will be the case.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

dyrne said:


> Probably the vast majority of holstein bull calves are grown out as steers on pasture I would think. I can't imagine there is much call for veal -in the states at least. I don't think there's anything shameful in trying to raise animals with the goal being as little suffering as possible. I want the way I raise mine to be kind of beautiful when looking back on it and I think on the whole, that will be the case.


I like veal


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I like veal


Me too. Nothing like a good veal chop.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> What would you propose one do with 10 million male dairy calves each year?


I ain't milking them.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Try cooking them in duck fat.


I love me some duck fat!! Found it at HEB in Del Rio, stocked up on that poultry liquid gold.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

no really said:


> I love me some duck fat!! Found it at HEB in Del Rio, stocked up on that poultry liquid gold.


A few years ago I had popcorn popped in duck fat.
And probably some extra poured on top.
Dear Lord....it was good.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

no really said:


> I love me some duck fat!!


It's almost as good as chocolate in terms of pure pleasure when eating.
I might fry a Snickers in some one day.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> A few years ago I had popcorn popped in duck fat.
> And probably some extra poured on top.
> Dear Lord....it was good.


That sounds yummy, think that will be my snack tonight while binge watching Jack Ryan.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

no really said:


> That sounds yummy, think that will be my snack tonight while binge watching Jack Ryan.


prolly not as yummy as John Krasinski though...


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Lisa in WA said:


> prolly not as yummy as John Krasinski though...


My head is exploding with a joke that I can not tell. 

Even in the dark room......


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> prolly not as yummy as John Krasinski though...


No truer words spoken!!!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> My head is exploding with a joke that I can not tell.
> 
> Even in the dark room......


oh, live a little. Go tell it in the dark room.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> Go tell it in the dark room.


You're quite the instigator.


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