# Allis Chalmers WD45 trouble. Exhaust Manifold?



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I bought a WD45 Allis last spring. I have been really happy with it up until today. It starts and runs even in subzero weather. I have been skidding firewood all winter. Today it died (in the woods of course). It will start and run (more or less). There is a very loud rap in the exhaust. The tractor does not have enough power to even move itself. The noise seems to be coming from the manifold and there is soot around one of cylinder exhaust ports. So what kind of headache am I in for?


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

Change filters first thing. Lack of fuel and/or air can make diesels knock and smoke massively.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

krackin said:


> Change filters first thing. Lack of fuel and/or air can make diesels knock and smoke massively.


Gas powered. Checked sediment bowl. All good there.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

Fire it up and spray WD-40 or equivalent around the intake manifold gasket and see if it evens out. May as well do easy first.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

Also check point gap being gas. No power is a sign of excessive gap or bad points. May hust need a tune up kit. I don't know your experience.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

It happened instantly. From running great to running like crap. But thanks for the head gasket tip, I will try that out.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

That is just a need for a tune up kit, points failed. Wires, points, condenser and distributor cap. Another thing to prove it out, use the WD around the distributor cap and wires while running. If it gets smoother, it is cap and/or wires. Still, if it is, get the while kit.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Tis the season, where I’m at anyway. Froze coolant and the effects thereof?


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

Intake gasket isn't the head gasket. Do your tune up kit first. Gap your points to spec on the open rise of the dist shaft. Most likely about .032 a match book is close to get running temporarily.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Skamp said:


> Tis the season, where I’m at anyway. Froze coolant and the effects thereof?


No overheating. It had been running for at least half an hour.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Had it froze before start?
Do you have a way to check SG of the coolant?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Tractor was running fine, then a Loud rap. Please define rap, knuckles on a door, hammer tapping on metal or other?

Personally I am guessing you had a cam gear jump some teeth or break throwing rhew timing off. Allows fuel into the ehaust manifold to burn but not under compression so it is black sooty stuff. Also with the cam timing out of whack the engine would not have power to pull it's self.

If it has a Mag instead of a distrubter your timeing problem may be there.

Since you can get it to run you cn check the timing as it runs with a timing lite.

I grew up with a WC, WD and a WD45 on the farm. We had a problem with the mag once on the WD other than that they were pretty much bullet proof.


I also do not think it froze up as it has been below freezeing there for some time and it would have froze long before the last day or so. Minnesota isn't Palm Beach after all.





















Your engine is the same size as my D17's, a long blood line starting with a model WC thru the D17 and also Gleaner combines.

 Al


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Pull valve cover and look at valve springs, may have a broken one. My guess you have a malfunctioning valve one way or another. Also remember these are OLD engines with lot wear and tear and you manually adjust valve clearance. Could also have bad cam lobe though dont think that is usual with these. But again these are OLD tractors that have seen lot summers in their life at this point. Never know what might have just fatigued or worn out.

Forgive my ignorance, but WC and WD had magneto, but didnt WD45 have distributor? Though I know lot mix and match over the years as it was basically same engine over lot years. So lot people put distributor in the older models rather than rebuild a magneto.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Pretty sure it is a distributor. Yes, it has been cold for quite some time and I use it every weekend. I would describe the noise as a cross between a hard knock and a dull roar. When it runs it wants to die, especially if I adjust the throttle. Happened very sudden. Driving along (not pulling a load) wham!


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Hydrometer in the tool box?


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I should also note that it is unlikely related to a single cylinder as I have had plug wires get knocked off several times and it still had plenty of power.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Skamp said:


> Hydrometer in the tool box?


No. Trust me, it is not frozen coolant. It has been winter here 2 months now and this is not the coldest weather we have had. And no, no hydrometer.....


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

tinknal said:


> No. Trust me, it is not frozen coolant. It has been winter here 2 months now and this is not the coldest weather we have had. And no, no hydrometer.....


So you don’t know if it’s a cracked head/block from temp. OK.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

*"have had plug wires get knocked off several times and it still had plenty of power."*

That is why I think it is a timing issue. The last WD 45 was built in 1957, 60 years ago.

Our last Allis left the farm in 1970 a Ford 2000 replaced the WD and a 5000 replaced the 45.
I couldn't remember whioch one we had mag problems with it was a long time ago early 1960's.

Like I said look at the timing marks with a light, with it running. Not sure how far off the timing can be from TDC, I am sure that information can be found on You tube of other place.

 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Got that coolant bone in your teeth and your going to run with it right?

It has been well below zero there and here for several months now so if the collant was the problem it would have PUKED well before now.

 Al


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

alleyyooper said:


> Got that coolant bone in your teeth and your going to run with it right?
> 
> It has been well below zero there and here for several months now so if the collant was the problem it would have PUKED well before now.
> 
> Al


You’re the boss. ;-)


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Skamp said:


> So you don’t know if it’s a cracked head/block from temp. OK.


I do not know if it is a cracked head or block. I DO KNOW that my coolant is good. Why do you persist in this line of questioning?


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

tinknal said:


> I do not know if it is a cracked head or block. I DO KNOW that my coolant is good. Why do you persist in this line of questioning?


Simply, how do you know your coolant is good. It hasn’t been quantified. I’m amused that you, and the boss, get so defensive.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Skamp said:


> Simply, how do you know your coolant is good. It hasn’t been quantified. I’m amused that you, and the boss, get so defensive.


I'm amused that some clown from the tropics is trying to tell someone from the arctic about frozen coolant.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

tinknal said:


> I'm amused that some clown from the tropics is trying to tell someone from the arctic about frozen coolant.


Gotcha.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

alleyyooper said:


> *"have had plug wires get knocked off several times and it still had plenty of power."*
> 
> That is why I think it is a timing issue. The last WD 45 was built in 1957, 60 years ago.
> 
> ...


I don't have a light. Would it be possible (assuming that it is timing) to turn the distributor enough to give it enough power to get it out of the woods?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

*It is so simple to open the radator cap and look in to see the coolant isn't slushy but free flowing liquid, no need to test any other way. *Probably even see it circulating while the engine is running once warm.


Yes you may be able to turn the distrubter a bit to get it out of the woods. but I would not count on it.

As for a timing light !!! Type in home made timing lights you tube, in a google search box. Several come up made out of flash lites.

 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Have you gotten Allis out of the woods yet?
Know any one that could tow it for you?

 Al


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

I'm more ford than allis, but as long as you have an allis, you may want to keep this site in your bookmarks. It will come in handy.

http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forums.html


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## Dougout (Jun 6, 2016)

Skamp said:


> You’re the boss. ;-)


Hi . Re wd45 running like crap . Have you checked for any holes or loose hose clamps on the carborator piping . I have never owned one . 
But a neighbour had one & used it for yrs 2x a day doing chores . Very realiable little tractor . If you are having branches pulling off spark plug wires , possibly branches are hitting & moving other things . As this happened all of a sudden . Someone that knows these tractors better than me please feel free to correct me . Wasn't there float adjusting screws on these carborators also , if a branch turned one of these . Getting a good supply of gas to the carb ? Nothing blocking the gas flow from the tank . Had a very interesting time with ice once & in the summer with a neighbours tractor a moth floating around in fuel tank . Both these were 930 Case tractors. 
Like someone else said get it towed to your yard so it's easier to work on would be my first to do.


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## Terpodion (Mar 24, 2015)

Listen, I'm kind of new here but have been working on cars since forced to when I was an impoverished teenager. I'm 60 now. This is an old fashioned pushrod, carbureted engine. No sensors or computer. It should be a cakewalk to get it going. Any such engine will run if it has all of these four things: Fuel. Air. Spark. Compression. Have you tried squirting gas / starting fluid / other combustible into the carb? Have you pulled a plug, grounded it cranked the engine and looked at the spark? What does the oil look like? Black, or does it look like gray latex paint. If the later, the block / head cracked or it blew a gasket and the oil and coolant are mixing. Do you have a timing light - borrow / buy one - ? Look at the timing mark while it idles. Is it on the mark? Does it wander all over the place? 

Considering that it lost power all at once, it's probably something like a vacuum hose that fell off making the mixture way too lean or something came loose in the distributor, like the point set. The condenser may have gone bad or become disconnected. I should re-read your thread because I'm in a hurry to get off to the local Dept. Of Motor vehicles so I can register my van to haul away junk from my own homestead. That thing died this spring and you wouldn't believe what I went through fixing it. It turned out to be a bad computer. It would have been far easier to fix had it been 10 years older and computerless. Cheers!


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## cpnkrunch (Dec 6, 2014)

Have you checked compression? If you have a cylinder with 0 compression, then pop the valve cover and look for a dropped valve/broken spring. If compression is reasonably good in all cylinders (read that all about the same) then I would look at a timing issue, but usually if the governor goes out you lose everything. Timing with a light, the Fire or F (30 degrees advance) mark on the flywheel should be centered in the inspection port ( hole in the bottom of the clutch housing) at 1100 rpm and above. At low idle, you might see the DC (dead center) mark, might not. 2-5 degrees advance at 450 rpm. I have seen an instance where the head pulled off of a piston (aluminum) and it could be you just sucked some dirt in your main jet on the carb, but the loud rap in the exhaust makes me believe otherwise. Just my 2 cents. Point gap 020-022, plug gap 030. Valves 012 hot. All old ACs use the same numbers except the model G.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

before you start tearing things apart.
is it possible that you had ice in the fuel tank ?
It is possible that the engine warmed up the fuel tank and the ice turned to water. been there, ..
done that.

......jiminwisc.....


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

*You guys should all go back and read the orginal post.* Was no tree branchs tearing things off the tractor. Had been running fine for a while getting fire wood out. Soot around the exhaust so it is dumping fuel thru a open valve and burning in the manifold. and then there was the loud *BANG*.

I have been around
Allis tractors from a WC to a D17 gas and there is no tree branch that can readjust the carbs on those tractors.



 Al


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Gotcha boss. You’ll sort it out.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

As you can see there are no vacum lines to the distributor on a Allis WD45. You set the timing and for get it.










Kind of hard for any branches to get to the carb.










Some clues. There was a loud bang, yet the tractor will still run but now power. Rules out a broken rocker arn as the Allis 226 engine will still have power with only 3 cylinders. Has timing gears not a belt so may be a broken tooth allowing rhe timeing to jump.Tractor is 60 years old if it is a 1957 model and who knows if it has ever been over hauled?

There is soot showing in the exhust maniforld joints, gas not fully burnt will cause that, so it is most likely fireing on a open valves. 

My daughter Lives in Wisconsin not from from Hasting Minnesota and it has been below normal normal cold there since about the 3d week of Nov. So it the coolant had frozen and cracked the head or engine that would have happened well before the new year.
The tractors owner said he hads been useing The tractor to haul fire wood .

 Al


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Where did the pictures come from?


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

tinknal said:


> I don't have a light. Would it be possible (assuming that it is timing) to turn the distributor enough to give it enough power to get it out of the woods?


I would not do that..if it is running , the timing can't be far off.
a blown head gasket will let antifreeze into the oil. look for milky colored oil.
or the antifreeze could be dumping into a cylinder. it would spray out if the spark plug is removed.
if that is the case, leave the spark plug out and see if you can make it go on 3 cylinders
the bang has me wondering.
I once broke a push rod on a cylinder. that made a big bang.
maybe take a spark plug out and see if the piston in question is moving up and down.
you don't need a special tool for this.
you should hear/feel the air rushing out.
an open valve can be somewhat determined the same way.

A bottle of Heet in the gas tank never hurt .
I am also a great fan of Sea Foam..


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Sounds like a cam timing problem to me.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I


alleyyooper said:


> Have you gotten Allis out of the woods yet?
> Know any one that could tow it for you?
> 
> Al


it's going to be much warmer this weekend so I'm waiting until then.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

There was no "bang", it just started suddenly with the loud rapping noise. As far as water (ice) in the gas my state mandates 10% ethanol so there would be no ice, and the first thing I did was to check the sediment bowl. I am going to try to get it pulled out when it warms up this weekend.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

This is my 1961 D 17 Allis. Been thinking about a hydraulic pump run in place of the belt pulley. then I could mount a cylinder on the bucket.










 Al


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

Sounds like timing now that I read more info. Actually more like the vacuum advance isn't working. Still, a tune up kit, check timing. Distributors are easy to replace. Most disasters those old beast suffered was just a simple repair. Look at how many are still out there running. They were built that way.


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## SpaceCadet12364 (Apr 27, 2003)

I don't know if it has centrifugal advance or not. But it maybe stuck or springs broke or come off. stuck full advanced. also check roll pin holding gear in place bottom of distributor.


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## gunseller (Feb 20, 2010)

If you are using 10% ethanol that might be you problem. It ruined the rubber gaskets in the carb. This can happen all at once. Will result in no power. Or the float, if fiber not steel, may have developed a leek. The knocking could be an over load of gas in the engine. Turn gas off and try to start it. Spray a little WD40 in intake if needed to get it to fire. If it runs for a little bit you need a current carb kit. 
Steve


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

OK, first off I feel like a bit of a Rube. It is a WD, Not WD45. In my defense it is my first Allis and the guy said it is a 45. I think this means it is a magneto and not a distributor. A little confusing as to pictures because it has an external coil (possibly a ******* modification).


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

And yes, it is out of the woods now.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

If you think there may be internal damage, you can pull the plugs, shut of fuel, take off belts, disconnect battery and turn the motor over by hand. Listen for any sound that isn't smooth and any resistance spots.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Look like this?











Not sure but I do believe the mag can be replaced with a distributor. I just looked at the cost for a mag and WHEW like $425.00.
Hope your mag can be rebuilt, probably the reason for the external coil is the internal one was gone.

check with the Allis guys link was posted above.

 Al


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

alleyyooper said:


> Look like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it looks like that except the coil wire goes through the distributor cap Haven't taken it off yet.


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## SpaceCadet12364 (Apr 27, 2003)

Yes that is a magneto with ******* engineering to work as a distributor. rebuild with new internal coil and any other damaged parts. ebay has coil 70$ cap 70$ and points and cond. 16$ wd mag. 15$ rotor button 225$ for used mag. 400$ plus new. fairbanks mags on those things. Nice but $$$$ they price them like gold


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

tinknal said:


> OK, first off I feel like a bit of a Rube. It is a WD, Not WD45. In my defense it is my first Allis and the guy said it is a 45. I think this means it is a magneto and not a distributor. A little confusing as to pictures because it has an external coil (possibly a ******* modification).


Like I said the engine in WC, WD, and WD45 were all same family, they just upped compression, displacement, etc. The WC came with magneto only. The WD I think may came both ways, the distributor in late years. And all WD45 came with distributor. But you can even use distributor in WC if you want. 

Unless you want to restore everything to factory for a show piece or for some reason want to not use a battery and use hand crank to start, kinda pointless to buy or restore a magneto, they are crazy price compared to distributor. Heck somewhere I even saw where somebody had adapted an Allis distributor to work in a Farmall F12. I had an F12 at one point and wish I had known back then cause I battled with its magneto. F12 was magneto only and hand crank only. Though I have since seen innovative way to add a Pinto flywheel and electric starter. I would have so done that if I had known. 

Actually be kinda interesting to see inside your current magneto and how the person modified it as make-do distributor. It may been quite innovative and used like that for decades and could do so again very easily. Or it might been done really crudely and not something to keep. Probably the second, "field engineering" can be quite clever and well done, but usually isnt. Just a quick fix that nobody bothered redoing. It was just old version of baling wire and duct tape.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Allis WC engines
Waukesha 3.0L 4-cyl gasoline
Allis-Chalmers 3.3L 4-cyl distillate
Allis-Chalmers 3.3L 4-cyl gasoline

*Allis Chalmers WC Power:*
Drawbar (claimed): 12 hp [8.9 kW] 
Belt (claimed): 21 hp [15.7 kW] 
Plows: 2
Drawbar (tested): 18.72 hp [14.0 kW] 
Belt (tested): 25.45 hp [19.0 kW] 
The power was upped in 1938 when they upgraded to a styles tractor.

*Allis Chalmers WD Engines:*
Allis Chalmers 3.3L 4-cyl tractor fuel
Allis-Chalmers 3.3L 4-cyl gasoline

*Allis Chalmers WD Power:*
Drawbar (claimed): 19 hp [14.2 kW] 
PTO (claimed): 26 hp [19.4 kW] 
Drawbar (tested): 30.23 hp [22.5 kW] 
Belt (tested): 34.63 hp [25.8 kW] 



*Allis Chalmers WD45 Engines:*
Allis-Chalmers 3.7L 4-cyl gasoline
Allis-Chalmers 3.7L 4-cyl tractor fuel
Allis-Chalmers 3.7L 4-cyl LP gas
Allis-Chalmers 3.8L 6-cyl diesel


*Allis Chalmers WD45 Power:*
Drawbar (claimed): 23 hp [17.2 kW] 
30 hp [22.4 kW] 
Belt (claimed): 29 hp [21.6 kW] 
39 hp [29.1 kW] 
Plows: 4
Drawbar (tested): 38.53 hp [28.7 kW] 
Belt (tested):


*Allis Chalmers D17 Engines:*
Allis-Chalmers 3.7L 4-cyl gasoline
Allis Chalmers 4.3L 6-cyl diesel
Allis-Chalmers 3.7L 4-cyl LP gas

*Allis Chalmers D17 Power:*
Engine: 63 hp [47.0 kW] 
Plows: 5
Drawbar (tested): 48.64 hp [36.3 kW] 
Belt (tested): 52.70 hp [39.3 kW] 

*Allis Chalmers 175 Engines:*
Perkins 3.9L 4-cyl diesel
Perkins 4.1L 4-cyl diesel
Allis-Chalmers 3.7L 4-cyl gasoline

*Allis Chalmers 175 Power:*
Drawbar (tested): 54.05 hp [40.3 kW] 
PTO (tested): 62.47 hp [46.6 kW] 


All the blocks for the above listed models are of the same about the same castings, plus you can add in the gleaner E combine engine in. 
Major difference is the bores went from 3.3L to 3.7L with the use of larger sleeves and domed pistons to increase compression.
All the above listed engines are a bolt in on any chassie how ever the Gleaner engine requires a few mods to line up the water pump and to the governor linkage.

 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Not sure where your at with the AC WD figureing out the problem. 
I did an inquire at ac.com to see if your tractor can be switched to a distrubtor tractor.

Appears it can. 
http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/wd-change-to-distrubtor_topic146679.html


I also got a PM from a fellow who had one for 50.00 plus shipping cost, go with USPS flat rate if yoiur intrested. He said he would send pictures.

 Al


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

alleyyooper said:


> Not sure where your at with the AC WD figureing out the problem.
> I did an inquire at ac.com to see if your tractor can be switched to a distrubtor tractor.
> 
> Appears it can.
> ...


Thanks. If it is the mag I will convert.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

HermitJohn said:


> Like I said the engine in WC, WD, and WD45 were all same family, they just upped compression, displacement, etc. The WC came with magneto only. The WD I think may came both ways, the distributor in late years. And all WD45 came with distributor. But you can even use distributor in WC if you want.
> 
> Unless you want to restore everything to factory for a show piece or for some reason want to not use a battery and use hand crank to start, kinda pointless to buy or restore a magneto, they are crazy price compared to distributor. Heck somewhere I even saw where somebody had adapted an Allis distributor to work in a Farmall F12. I had an F12 at one point and wish I had known back then cause I battled with its magneto. F12 was magneto only and hand crank only. Though I have since seen innovative way to add a Pinto flywheel and electric starter. I would have so done that if I had known.
> 
> Actually be kinda interesting to see inside your current magneto and how the person modified it as make-do distributor. It may been quite innovative and used like that for decades and could do so again very easily. Or it might been done really crudely and not something to keep. Probably the second, "field engineering" can be quite clever and well done, but usually isnt. Just a quick fix that nobody bothered redoing. It was just old version of baling wire and duct tape.


 I will take some pics.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Have you messed with it to get an Idea of the problem?

How did you get it out of the woods?

An inquireing mind would like to know.

 Al


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