# would the dogs really protect??



## matlori (May 22, 2013)

Are there things to look for to know if ones dog(s) would protect: you
the kids
the livestock
the house
the buildings
the things in the buildings
the fuel tanks 
etc.
Are there things one can do to "teach" them to guard these things?

We have a collie/kelpie, she took down a cow for me after only owning her for a week, she was 3 months old, gave me enough time to jump the fence, she also chases off all air predators from poultry and our yard. We also have a one year old Komondor/GP, she has killed a few hens in the past, but stood guard over a hen that was attacked by a raven until our other dog got back from chasing it away. The herd dog does the traveling even at night, and the LGD stays in the yard (our yard, poultry yard, cattle pastures etc.). The herd dog greets new people (with very little manners :shocked , the LGD hides under the house. 
There have been robberies in our area, people breaking into houses, taking tools and such from outside buildings, taking fuel from bulk fuel tanks. 

How do I know if my dogs would be helpful with these things? Or heaven forbid if someone came to take one of the children from the yard.


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

The best and only surefire way to know is to put them to the test. If you have a friend who is willing that the dogs don't know that would be one of the easiest ways. I think there are some trainers out there and companies that will "guard" test your dogs also. They would have to be tested in every situation also, not just a stranger coming on your property. Our Pyrenees could care less if someone came onto the property and went into the shed, but let that said person come into her goat pasture and she is a different dog immediately placing herself between the person and the goats. I had my property guards temperament tested with a Schutzhund trainer, but I haven't actually had them guard tested. Considering they hold anyone that comes up that they don't know in their car until I come out and get them I am pretty confident. Neighbor behind us is rarely if ever near the fenceline, he has several hundred acres and lives on the other side of it. But the past couple of days he has been working over on this side, not right on the fenceline but close enough that the tractor can be readily seen and heard from our place. It has been driving our mastiff crazy with him over there. When the kids are outside with him he is constantly running that fenceline growling and barking. Anything that is not normal sets him off in guard mode. Hopefully there are others on here that will chime in with more experience on guard breeds. Blessings, Kat


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

Oh, I wanted to add a few things. I think with property guards it is mostly temperament and confidence of the dog. Having a known guard breed helps as well. But we do a few things to enforce the guarding instinct. When a stranger comes up the drive and the dogs hold them until I get there I never ever tell my dogs its ok or allow them to interact with the strangers. I call the dogs off and they sit at my side. I don't allow them to go over to whoever, I have allowed out of the car for friendly attention. I only allow this with family and friends. The dogs have learned who is allowed free roam and who is not allowed free roam of the property with this. I also never tell them no when they are doing their job. I have a re-call command that I use which will bring them to my side at my side they are rewarded with a pat. I work with building the dog's confidence level so that they can work without fear of constant reprimand..ie. "No" or "Stop it". All my dogs are taught basic schutzhund commands as puppies, except for the Pyrenees and well...she's a Pyrenees. She does her job without me! LOL! Blessings, Kat


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

I always hesitate to comment on posts like this. There's a real fine line between the dog that will guard and sound warning and the dog that will chew a neighborhood kid or meter reader to shreds. What you're looking for is both instinct to guard a particular territory and the judgement needed not to turn into another vicious dog story. I spent over 20 years in close proximity to working police dogs. They were trained not bite the guys wearing uniforms, but the handlers always were very cautious about just how reliable they were. And those dogs were trained constantly. So, while I appreciate your wanting a reliable dog, I have to caution you that you're also getting into an area of liability for yourself. 

I myself feel a lot more at ease with a barking alert to issues than the idea of a set of teeth patrolling my yard. Out LGDs are kept behind a fence and it's unlikely any people will be near it. 

Maybe I've just been bit too many times to keep my big yap shut. No offense intended.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

You already know what your dogs will do. Your LGD hides when people come over. However, he is still young. Do things that will boost his confidence in new situations. Take him to new places and meet new people. He should be able to sit nicely while someone pets him. He should ride in the car without worry. You should be able to walk him on a 10 foot lead and not be dragged by him. Heeling isn't necessary if you don't care about him heeling, but he should mind the end of the 10 foot leash, and come sit beside you when you call him. This will help him be more confident around strangers and mind you. Work with the dog.

Komondors are fierce. Great Pyrs may be fierce. But may be very gentle and laid back, not a protection breed as much as a barker. I've known a couple who would probably not bite an attacker. But, they will stand there and bark. Frankly, a big dog who barks is really scary and most people would just go away. You have a mix and don't really know what you've got. Build that dogs confidence so he doesn't run and hide and he will be a great deterrent. Killing chickens doesn't equal killer instinct. He may have killed them on accident.

I would trust the collie/kelpie to be protective of the children if they thought someone was doing them harm. They are family dogs more than an LGD is.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

....would the dogs really protect??....

Proof is in the pudding!

Your collie/kelpie has already proven she will protect you at the young age of 3 months; and she is alert to flying predators. Your Komondor/GP may have accidentally killed that chicken..or may have found it in that condition. Apparently those two are already working well together. 

You indicated you wanted your "herd dog" to travel around your place at night and are not satisfied with your LGD staying in your yard. You didn't say how old your LGD mix is; so that may be a developmental issue and she may have even been traumatized in some way that needs attending.

You may have a couple of good dogs that will do what you want. One is too young and the other traumatized. Only time will tell you if they will "...really protect..." all you want them to protect.


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## HayBabies (Feb 27, 2013)

I'm not really sure I would want to rely on a dog to protect my children, home ect. I want one to alarm me of something odd going on. No dog is going to completely stop a adult grown man who is up to no good. The guy would just beat the dog silly and move on. Any large predator animal can easily kill a dog if they took a mind to. You must be the one to protect your family and your belongings. Get a gun and learn how to use it. Don't hide behind your dog. Sorry if this sounds harsh, just the way I see it.


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## matlori (May 22, 2013)

There is some really great info here, thank you so much! Thanks for the "training tips". I will try to keep the reprimands to a min for the LGD so that she can be more confidant with her choices. The chickens were not an accident, but she was way too young to be exposed to them unattended. She has not killed one in a few months now, and we think that she brought us one that died on its own. She was beside a dead hen a couple weeks ago up by our house, no signs that it was killed by anything. My hubby did not want to waste, so he chopped the feet and head off and split it open and tried to hand it to the dogs to eat, even covered it with dog food, they ate the food and left the hen! The hen was left to rot for two weeks, we ended up putting it into the maggot pail instead. I am sure not upset that the komondor stays in the yards, she is showing that she thinks her job is to protect all the living things on the property, that is great! Our herding dog patrols and barks on the rest of the property, if anything gets past her, the komondor is with all of us and the animals to protect. I will work on our commands so that they know who is allowed and who is not. I agree that if someone really wanted to do harm, the dogs would not be able to help much. But I would like to teach our Komondor to bark when people come in. I agree I do not want dogs that bite, barking would be enough. Getting a gun is not in the cards for us right now. But it is a goal, for now we must work with what we have, and what we have is a couple of dogs that work great as a team. 
Could someone send me a link for some commands that I should work on with the dogs to encourage them to bark for particular reasons? The komondor barks at anything out of the usual.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

...."Could someone send me a link for some commands that I should work on with the dogs to encourage them to bark for particular reasons? The komondor barks at anything out of the usual."....

Sorry, I had to laugh at this. The only thing that came to mind is the experience I had with a German Shepherd quite a few years back. She was a "house" dog and I lived in a small town at the time. Whenever she heard anything she didn't like, she would bark. I would immediately get up, place my hand in such a manner as to keep her mouth shut and say "shhhh". Whenever she would bark, it was muted because of the way I held her mouth; and it wasn't long before I didn't need to hold her mouth. Her barks were under her breath so to speak. I could hear them faintly. 

Now I don't really see one teaching an LGD in such a way.....


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

About all I can think of is praising the dog when he barks at what you want.

The dog isn't going to be able to do much against an attacker with a gun, but I bear the scars that prove you don't p.o. a Pyrenees and get away with it. I defy anyone to to try and attack ny wife or kids when that Pyr, our GSD, or any of our now dead Labs were around. It would not happen, 100% surety of that. The LGDs I'm not so sure of. But then, they aren't house dogs.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Yes, you can teach her to bark at specific stimuli, but from under the porch it isn't going to do much. She must get her confidence.


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## K-9 (Jul 27, 2007)

Okay, not to be mean but just to be honest, if you are having to ask these questions on the internet, you are not ready for a true protection dog. They are an incredible tool but if not properly handled can be a huge liability as well. If there is a good protection dog trainer in your area spend some time with them to get you headed in the right direction. Schutzen is a sport with a protection aspect but it is still a sport and the attributes of a true working dog are different than the sport dogs. The bottom line is a biting dog that you do not have absolute control over is a loose cannon just waiting to go off. Now don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of dogs, there is a protection trained GSD sleeping in the corner as I type this, there are other dogs that preform an alarm function outside as well. Like I said I don't want to sound mean but I don't want you to suffer harm from a lack of knowledge. Oh, I almost forgot, Leerburg Kennels has some good videos on their website about this very issue, they are at www.leerburg.com hope this helps some.


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## peteyfoozer (Nov 23, 2012)

I have no doubts I am safer with my LGD's (Maremmas) than I have been with any other breed of dog I own. I have had dobies and rotties, but nothing has shown the discretion that my Maremmas have. As long as they are bonded with your kids, I wouldn't worry.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

A dog can be taught to guard anything, that is not hard. Teaching human's to teach a dog anything, is where the problems start.
As K-9 said, find a trainer or PP training club in your area, that is where to start.


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## Grey Mare (Jun 28, 2013)

I have an Australian Cattle Dog cross, Cattie Mae, who I know will lay her life down for me. Other than my GSD/Malamute cross male who passed 2 years ago, she is my shadow, she has shown she will protect me, putting herself between me and a stranger that comes into the yard, is very watchful, my shadow and also protects our farm and animals. I have never had this type of breed before so it has been a great learning experience for me, having grown up with GSD and Northern Breeds.


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