# Off Grid



## MSMH (Sep 8, 2009)

I'd like to find out how you manage to supply your energy needs for your homesteads while not being connected to the Grid whether by choice or when weather conditions such as a blizzard mandate alternative energy sources. 

For example, do you use propane, solar, wood, wind, etc. or a combination of these? I am trying to learn as much as possible about alternative energy sources so that we can figure out what we need for our own homestead.

Thanks!


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## ihedrick (May 15, 2005)

There will be plenty of others to post, but here's some of what I'm doing althought not off grid completely. Heating and winter cooking is with a wood stove. I have an assortment of solar panels for various jobs. Some are the little sidewalk lights to charge batteries for the kids games. Once the batteries die; no more game til they charge them back up. I am working on an outside kitchen to use propane for summer cooking. I don't have anything wind powered as I don't think there is enough wind here to do much. You'd have to look into your area for that. Landscape and curtains also make a difference too when using the sun to heat/light up your home or blocking out the cold.
You'll also have to consider how many kwh you use and try to reduce that down as much as you can. You may want to get one of those energy use monitors. You plug that into the wall, and your device into the monitor. It tells you how much power its using and you can get an idea of where yoou stand, what just eats up too much power,, etc. Hope that helps.


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## katlupe (Nov 15, 2004)

We use solar panels for our electric needs. Have a generator that is made especially for off-the grid homes. We use wood for heating and cooking. Also have a propane cooking range (no electric parts on it at all). We used to use a propane refrigerator but sold it and are saving up to purchase the Sundanzer refrigerator and the freezer. So for the time being we have not had a refrigerator but are doing okay. I can all our meats and store foods in our pantry and root cellar. I run an online business and we use two laptops over ten hours a day. I have documented my system on my blog Solar Baby. I like living this way and can sacrifice to get the things we need or want in the future. My home is not the so called "normal" home, but some day it will not be apparent to someone that it is an alternative energy house, unless then see the solar panels on top of my barn. 

katlupe


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## byexample (Aug 28, 2009)

My wife and I live off the grid and we rely primarily on solar power for our homestead and home-based business. Our 12 volt power system consists of six 110 - 130 watt solar panels (total 850 watts) and six 12 volt AGM batteries (total of 1200 amp/hours). We have an inexpensive 2000 watt modified sine wave inverter. We have a 5000 watt gasoline generator and a 40 amp Black and Decker battery charger for backup... but we're pretty power frugal and we get about 300 days of sun a year here. 

We use propane for cooking fuel and occasionally heating water at the moment. We also have a 40 gallon solar hot water batch collector that supplies most of our hot water. In the future (2 - 3 years) I plan to build and operate a methane digester and use biogas for cooking fuel. We're also going to start using a solar cooker for some of our meals.

I've found that it's entirely possible to run small crock-pots on modest sized solar power systems. Small crock pots only draw about 150 watts of power... about 1 solar panel's worth of power.

And we're using a 18 cubic foot electric refrigerator... which is our largest power consumer. Before it came to live with us we could (and did) go 10 cloudy days without running the generator. Now we can go 1 cloudy day... and then it's time to run the generator (we really need more batteries).

The buildings on the homestead (greenhouse and barn) are passive solar and the greenhouse also has a wood stove for backup / comfort heating. It can also be used for cooking if need be. For folks that haven't built yet -- I can't recommend passive solar design strongly enough. Saves huge amounts of energy without really requiring any extra money for construction (if you keep it simple). Our passive solar structures are stick-frame buildings constructed with materials available in any Home Depot, etc.. No esoteric building techniques or unusual building materials required.

Our prototype passive solar building has never seen a temperature below 50F since it was enclosed... even with the outside temperature at about zero. And our passive solar livestock barn (chickens and rabbits) has never seen a temperature below 35F (it stays cooler because it was designed to have a smaller solar gain).

Now some folks might think it's a wee bit crazy to have an insulated, passive solar structure for your chickens and rabbits. But after running some experiments and taking careful measurements I've been able to determine that we'll see a return on our investment after about 4 to 5 years. Our barn stays cool in the summer and warm in the winter. 

For rabbits, that means I can breed year round. My neighbors have trouble in deep winter and deep summer. I have some rabbits inside and some outside. Infant mortality rates for outside births has been more than 50% higher than inside births. And I'm going to be able to run automated watering year-round as well. The biggie though has been food consumption. Our outside rabbits consumer twice as much food as the indoor rabbits do for 4 to 5 months of the year (winter).

For chickens it's meant increased egg production in the deep winter and summer. In fact, our egg production numbers for last year only varied about 8% throughout the year. We were seeing something like 70% egg production last winter. Most of our neighbor's chickens stop producing eggs in the winter... our chickens just kept going. And our chickens also consumed about 50% less food than our neighbor's chickens did. 

Increased production and decreased food consumption add up to savings that after about 5 years should fully pay off. More importantly -- it makes it that much more likely that I can attain my ultimate goal of growing my own livestock feed since I need significantly less food than I would if I were using a more traditional approach to providing shelter to our livestock.

In designing your homestead I recommend that you try to keep all things as efficient as possible... appliances, heating, cooking, lighting... everything. Costs are only going to go up as we move into the future. The more efficient your homestead is the more easy it will be to attain sustainability.

Be well!

Kind regards,

Patrick Harris
http://ByExample.com


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## redwall (Mar 10, 2007)

please note that every link on the blog Solar Baby is a paid link that is on her blog she gets money for her "recommendations" oh and thanks for the tracking cookie

http://www.altestore.com/store/info/affiliates/ 
they even have hints how to get you more traffic!!

you are not documenting you are selling


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## katlupe (Nov 15, 2004)

redwall said:


> please note that every link on the blog Solar Baby is a paid link that is on her blog she gets money for her "recommendations" oh and thanks for the tracking cookie
> 
> http://www.altestore.com/store/info/affiliates/
> they even have hints how to get you more traffic!!
> ...


I AM documenting my own off the grid home. Yes, I have links on there but you do not have to click them. I make a living off my blogs and my website selling guitar strings. My recommendations on there are only things I plan on using or have used. Mostly I have answered questions about equipment that people contact me about. I don't see what your problem is. 

katlupe


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## MSMH (Sep 8, 2009)

Thank you for your replies. You are very resourceful.  I will be researching your good ideas. 

I also believe that energy costs will continue to go up.


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## Sparticle (Nov 1, 2004)

redwall said:


> please note that every link on the blog Solar Baby is a paid link that is on her blog she gets money for her "recommendations" oh and thanks for the tracking cookie
> 
> http://www.altestore.com/store/info/affiliates/
> they even have hints how to get you more traffic!!
> ...


Long before her blog came along, she helped people for free left and right. She's a stay at home homesteader and has helped people - FOR FREE, anytime they ask about anything they ask. I've learned so much from her and she has helped me learn different ways you can take your homesteading skills and yes, make some money while working at home. You don't have to click on the affiliate links to get the information she provides and quite frankly I think this was a rude comment towards someone who has done nothing but help so many of us here and is trying to earn a little bit of a living while staying at home. Lighten up.


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

Wish I could make a little extra cash from here!.. Kudo's katlupe!!

I took the different approach than most. My set up is totally 12 volts d.c. unless I can't figure out a way to operate something "Necessary" direct from my battery. I have a couple of small inverters that I use now and then but not very often.. 

I'm small beans. 512 watts of panel, C-40 charge controller and 4-6 volt golf cart batteries connected series/parallel. That's all, folks! 

I use propane for my fridge and I even have a light in it.. LOL Water heater that only uses the pilot light to heat with. Propane stove, My HUGE wide screen Digital TV (9") that operates directly from the battery. 12 volt R.V. pumps to pressure my rain water throughout the place and to pull water inside from my outdoor storage. Composting, waterless bathroom facilities, (I built myself) Light fixture combos of fluorescent and L.E.D.'s, Tunes everywhere!, Cordless phone with answering machine, 3 camera security system with auto dial to my cell phone, (Sensaphone System) Small cell recharging station, (aaa,aa,c,d,9 volt) ect, ect, ect..

I heat with wood with the propane as a back up. I have kerosene as a secondary back up. I have a 3200 watt gasoline generator with a 50 amp battery charger as back up but I haven't used it in some years now. It's good to have, though.. 

Being frugal is the key. Don't use stuff unless you need to. Don't have stuff if ya don't need it. Be humble with the basic things. It's like Hooked on Phonics.. "Works for Me!"


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

My hat is off too people like 12man with their simplicity and frugal-ness . . . . . . . .

As compared to the -- "But I could NEVER ever live without my dishwasher and my 72" tv" -- etc. etc. etc. . . . . . . . 

On another forum a guy was complaining about his batterys were low by 9pm . .even after a good day of the sun charging them . . .seems his wife has to use the dishwasher (with its big electricheaters) . .after the sun is down............all his good solar gain is quickly wiped out by an unnecessary energy HOG.

Point is that more folks need to simplify their life style so as not to get hit so hard when nasty things happen.

I have propane cook,heat,water. . . .and a large battery bank so I can go a while.............


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

I use the electricity that we generate. If it is cloudy and calm we don't use as much--we don't vacuum, use large power tools, etc., if we aren't getting electricity from the sun or wind. If it is windy and the batteries are full, we eat waffles, iron clothes, run the table saw cutting up boards for a big project, etc. If we want to use more power, we need to run backup, or wait until sunshine or strong winds.


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## roachhill (Jul 8, 2009)

I didn't see a location for your homestead. It does make a difference. In Az. it's alot easier to run on solar alone than in Pa. After a bit of study I found my site would run better on a combination of solar and wind. The limited sun during the winter would require several extra solar panels and batteries but during the winter the wind is almost always blowing here. A small wind turbine for winter charging was much cheaper than extra panels and batteries. I will second the recommendation to economize your power use it will save you a small fortune. After assessing what I really needed there wasn't much more than lights (compact florescent and LED) a couple of fans and a water pump. I use a gas fridge scavenged from an old motorhome, 1 small gas on demand water heater for the tub, and wood heat. I also use primarily 12v with a small inverter for a few 110v items. Using this approach made alternative energy affordable. If you just figure out how much power your normal house uses then go price a solar system to run it you will likely have a heart attack and give up. Unless of course your a multi millionaire in which case can I have a couple of bucks? just kidding


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## adamtheha (Mar 14, 2007)

We run our mobile in Southern Alberta (Canada) completely off-grid, although we are running the generator to charge the batteries quite often, with only one small wind turbine so far. I purchased the batteries and inverter first, and I'm adding solar and wind as I can afford it. I estimate I will save every dollar I spend within two years time not having to run the generator. We heat with wood, and use a little propane for cooking and water heat. I will eventually be heating water with wood/sun too, but again, it takes time and money to install such things, and I need a barn first! We still don't use much propane at all. I filled the 500 gal tank this time last year, and it's still got 25% in it!

I completely agree, build your own home using every energy-saving design you can fit in it, but don't chose complex mechanical devices like geothermal pumps unless you can fix it yourself for free. Insulation and thermal mass are great in summer and winter, and solar gain is like having a furnace in your living room (windows are great!)

Try to make things as simple as possible, design for longevity and ease of use. If you need a computer to run your house, you will be replacing that computer every two years!


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

We built our original off-grid house with the idea we would have no electric power. When we installed a wind generator, we started adding lights, radio, and other power consumers. We increased our loads over the years to use but not to exceed our power generation. When we decided to replace our propane refrigerator with an electric one, we added PVs to our generation mix. We have since moved to a house where we can use the grid as back up and find we now use more electricity than ever before.


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## MSMH (Sep 8, 2009)

roachhill said:


> I didn't see a location for your homestead. It does make a difference. In Az. it's alot easier to run on solar alone than in Pa. After a bit of study I found my site would run better on a combination of solar and wind. The limited sun during the winter would require several extra solar panels and batteries but during the winter the wind is almost always blowing here. A small wind turbine for winter charging was much cheaper than extra panels and batteries. I will second the recommendation to economize your power use it will save you a small fortune. After assessing what I really needed there wasn't much more than lights (compact florescent and LED) a couple of fans and a water pump. I use a gas fridge scavenged from an old motorhome, 1 small gas on demand water heater for the tub, and wood heat. I also use primarily 12v with a small inverter for a few 110v items. Using this approach made alternative energy affordable. If you just figure out how much power your normal house uses then go price a solar system to run it you will likely have a heart attack and give up. Unless of course your a multi millionaire in which case can I have a couple of bucks? just kidding


Southern MN location. I agree that purchasing a ready-made solar power system would be cost prohibitive. Prices have come down a little for professionally installed solar, but not down into our price range! If we have any solar at all, it will have to be a homemade system. We will heat with wood and in the winter, cook with wood also.


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## no1cowboy (May 2, 2004)

I run my house in northern Alberta (Canada) completely off-grid, although I am running the generator to charge the batteries every so often, with one small wind turbine so far. And about 400 watts solar, and adding more solar as I can afford it. . I heat with wood/propane, and use a little propane for cooking and water heat. I run half my place with an inverter & the other half on 12v.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

I'm on the grid, but my dreams of going off grid may soon become a reality. 

For power outages, which happen often in my area, I have wood stove for heating/cooking. I have a camping oven so I can bake on the wood stove, and lots of cast iron pans and griddles to use. For backup I have a coleman camp stove and oven that both use propane cylinders. I keep 200 gallons of propane stored for back up heat and cooking. 

For lighting I have several methods. I started out with a car battery and a drop light during my first power outage, along with a few candles. Then moved on to those shake flashlights, tent lights, and oil lamps. Eventually I installed some RV lighting in various rooms. They run off car batteries that stay charged in an RV that is set up on the grid. I now have a solar panel to recharge batteries. 

DS and his friend deal in scrap metals. They often haul abandon cars and other metals for property owners. I gave DS a ride to one of the properties where he was making a deal with a land owner. The man showed him a lot of stuff he wanted hauled away. One of the things was a 60 watt solar unit still new in the box! DS wasn't interested in hauling it cause it would be worth very little for scrap, so I jumped in and said I'll haul it off for free.  (they sell for $350 at TS!)

DS was surprised that I was interested in it. He said they often have requests to haul them but they usually refuse because they aren't worth the time and trouble to dismantle and remove them. I told him I'll take every single one he comes across! So now I have high hopes that he will come across many more of them. I told him I am also interested in anything that look like a "scrawny windmill". He has hauled one of them a few months ago, and I've got my fingers crossed that he'll come across another one or two. 

The only thing we can figure is that the new owners either don't know what they are, or they don't want to be bothered with them and prefer to go 100% grid. Either way, I'll take all the "trash" of that type that they want to have hauled away. 

Sorry, I didn't mean to drift so bad, but I'm so excited that I couldn't contain myself!


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

Keep the faith, Spinner..


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

I often "wheel and deal" in all sorts of odd items, mostly from bankrupt companies/corporations. Its amazing what these people either don't want or are willing to sell for basically nothing. I rarely keep much of this stuff, I usually just flip it or trade it for something I want/need. With enough time and patience, you can find almost anything for almost nothing.

Good luck in your hunt!




Spinner said:


> I'm on the grid, but my dreams of going off grid may soon become a reality.
> 
> For power outages, which happen often in my area, I have wood stove for heating/cooking. I have a camping oven so I can bake on the wood stove, and lots of cast iron pans and griddles to use. For backup I have a coleman camp stove and oven that both use propane cylinders. I keep 200 gallons of propane stored for back up heat and cooking.
> 
> ...


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## MSMH (Sep 8, 2009)

Spinner said:


> I'm on the grid, but my dreams of going off grid may soon become a reality.
> 
> For power outages, which happen often in my area, I have wood stove for heating/cooking. I have a camping oven so I can bake on the wood stove, and lots of cast iron pans and griddles to use. For backup I have a coleman camp stove and oven that both use propane cylinders. I keep 200 gallons of propane stored for back up heat and cooking.
> 
> ...


Congratulations! It is fun to find good bargains, especially "free." 

Our future homestead in MN has an old windmill on it which we will be refurbishing. Have not had time to get a good look at it yet.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

MSMH . . .I gotta jump in here on that "old windmill" at your "future" MN place.
Hang on to it...............
There is a guy in western WI who has for years made a living by buying/selling/refurbishing/installing old windmills.
He is good . . .He has been doing "workshops" on windmills for years at the MREA Energy fair.
He would be 'the good guy' you would want to know when doing some thing with that old mill.

Now back to your OP.
You could consider your self ahead of many many other folks if your place all ready has a windmill on it . . . .You have a source of Water for any time--and the *nasty* times.

Good luck on that venture.


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## MSMH (Sep 8, 2009)

Jim-mi said:


> MSMH . . .I gotta jump in here on that "old windmill" at your "future" MN place.
> Hang on to it...............
> There is a guy in western WI who has for years made a living by buying/selling/refurbishing/installing old windmills.
> He is good . . .He has been doing "workshops" on windmills for years at the MREA Energy fair.
> ...


Thanks for the info! And, thanks for the good wishes. DH is very handy, but he may need some expert help when he works on the windmill.  Please kindly PM to me this expert's name and address or website address. Thank you. 

I do hope that there is adequate water on the homestead or else we will have to drill a new well. A cistern is planned (to be put under garage) so that will help supply our water needs. Cement shingles planned for house. 

The homestead's original buildings burnt down (arson) years ago when no one was living there so DH has since built a large tin shed on it to hold the salvaged lumber for our "new" home and this is the only building on the place at the present time.

We feel an urgency to get our house built (to a livable state) next year. "Nasty" times may be here soon. Hopefully, we will get things squared away in "time."

Time and money--both in short supply.


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