# Raw milk warning label



## FinneyFarm (Nov 27, 2004)

Hello all, I have been enjoying this forum very much. I own a certified raw milk dairy in southern Utah, milking 14 Brown Swiss cows. I believe I am the only raw dairy in the state. I just recieved the update from the dept. of ag. with the updates to the raw milk code. No serious changes but they are now requiring me to print on my label in a conspicuous place this phrase, 

"Studies have established a direct causal link between gastrointestinal disease and the consumption of raw milk. Raw milk, no matter how carefully produced, may be unsafe."

The smallest letter must be no smaller than 1/16th of an inch high. My question for you all is: Where and who did these studies? It seems like "direct causal" is an oxymoron. My website is www.finneyfarm.com
I have not updated it for some time, to busy milking cows etc. 

looking forward to hearing your coments,

Finney


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

You know whats funny? Raw milk is said to be the best milk for you, leave it up to the dept. of ag to come up with that stuff. I myself might be selling raw milk, heck at the rate things are going, more and more people want it. A local apple orchard wants to sell ours when we start, however NY law only allows sale from off the farm, maybe that is old regs, but still. I have currently 6-8 people that want to buy raw milk, and some want to by a couple gallons every other day. Not a lot, but if I get a big enough demand, ill have to look into bottleing, etc.

Im curious, how much of a demand do you have? For example, does your demand out-weigh your supply?



Edit: Looked at your site, nice looking animals, and a nice clean setup. I like that.


Jeff


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

It's called money and lobbying. The distributors who buy, pasteurize, homogenize and sell large scale have a lot of money and lot of clout. They're mainly the ones keeping up the propaganda about raw milk being unsafe. (IMO) If the farmers can sell raw milk directly to the consumer, then they can bypass all those guys and they don't want to lose their gravy train.

Sadly, here in Florida, it is illegal to sell raw milk for human consumption period. That doesn't stop me from buying raw milk from a friend. He just has to sell it for non-human consumption. What I do with it when I get it home is my business.


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## FinneyFarm (Nov 27, 2004)

We also must sell "on the farm". We are producing between 60 and 70 gal. daily and we are sold out within 3 or 4 hours after each milking. Some days we have a line waiting for the milk. I am only charging $3.00 per gal. because the dairy across the state line in Arizona also sells raw milk but they are a big comercial dairy with Holsiens and they charge $2.50. Not as good as mine though.
I have people who will drive 5 or 6 hours one way to buy milk and cheese. I get e-mails from all over wanting me to ship milk, from as far away as Washington state. 
We are growing slowly, I keep all heifers and sell the bulls as day olds. We can ship the cheese if we let it age for 60 days first.

Finney


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## FinneyFarm (Nov 27, 2004)

oh, one other thing the new code says,

"All products made from raw milk including cottage cheese, buttermilk, sour cream, yogurt, heavy whipping cream, half and half, butter, ice cream shall not be allowed for sale in Utah to individual consumers due to potential negative public health implications of such products."

Cheese is ok if it is aged at 35 degrees F. for 60 days or longer, so no cheese curd 

We have been selling cheese curd, jalapeno cheese curd, which a big seller, yogurt and buttermilk. We have made a variety of raw cheeses and they are great sellers also. Maybe I could do a cowshare program for these items. 

Finney


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## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

Boy, you all are lucky.

Ohio is just about the worst when it comes to regulations..not only are all sales of raw milk for human consumption illegal (Young's Dairy had been grandfathered but they "voluntarilly" quit selling raw milk), but they are pulling off all the pet liscences and talking about making that illegal as well.

Regulations out the wazoo and they are breaking down harder on the farmers. Our inspector had a conniption fit when he saw me with out herd of goats outside....he wanted to know what we do with our goats....

Aparently they are cracking down on the farmers who ship goat's milk int ehri cow milk tanks. lol

Nubians test similar to Jerseys.


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## Tom McLaughlin (Nov 16, 2002)

Finney[/QUOTE]
www.realmilk.com seems to keep up with regulations state by state.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Our country health department found out we were selling raw milk at the farm. Gave us a cease & desist order (and turned us in to the FBI as suspicious activity) until they could get to the bottom of it .... which we did .... since we are small holding (just a few milk cows), it is legal for us to sell raw milk as long as our customers come to us with their own containers and fill their containers from ours.


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## Suzanne (May 10, 2002)

Love your set up  That's to bad you have to put that label on, but those who buy raw milk have usually researched and know the difference. We have only 2 cows, and of course hand milk. Our customers provide their own clean gallon jar, and we fill them and cool them. If it came down to the state getting after me I would just have them sign a cow share agreement, or point out its just for animals, as that's the only way we can sell it in Michigan. 
We are awaiting the arrival of a new calf....anytime


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

I'm a commercial dairy farmer, 48 yo and have had raw milk my entire life. If I sold all the milk animals on this place I can tell you one thing for sure: I'd never drink milk from the store. The powers that be in this country are all idiots. It's the only explanation I can come up with. 

Jennifer


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## bethlaf (May 26, 2004)

funny i grew up drinking raw cows milk ( im originally from wisconsin ,dairy cows and packers fans  )
i have always hated store milk, now i admit i dont have cows, but this thread caught my interest, because of the topic, here in ark , i can sell 1200 gallons a year , off the farm , without regs, but im not supposed to sell raw milk either, it doesnt matteri have people who as soon as they find out i milk ,almost always ask for milk


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

You know, it kinda strikes me funny. All these regulations about selling raw milk (as well as meat, etc.) is supposed to be because of the safety and health of the public. BUT, the regulations are only concerned with SELLING those products. If I want to milk my cow and give away all the milk, that's fine. I can raise a hundred broilers, slaughter them in my back yard, and give them all away with no problem. It's only when someone SELLS to public that the regulators come down on them. 

It seems to me if it was really about public health, it would be just as illegal to give it away. Wouldn't you think?


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

Very interesting, there is THAT much of a demand out there? You sell everything as soon as your done. I will be curious if the same demand would crop up around here, I know there is an interest, and I know some who drink regular milk that would rather buy from a farm. But the profit one can make selling raw milk (3-6 bucks a gallon), if done on paper, you would get A LOT more than what they can give you from the milk companies. If you were selling milk, 3 bucks a gallon, if per hundred weight, it comes to $34.86/cwt. That is DAMN good, considering for even organic milk, it starts @ 22.00 from dairylea, and 21.75 from organic valley. Regular market is down there, and varies. My only concern, is say I was averaging 55lbs, that is about 115 gallons a day. If I had the demand you do, id be set. Because id gross double what id get from dairylea, then you run the risk of them giving you BS. Still regulated, however you can actually make something. What did it take you to setup your facility, to bottle? I know I have a spot, back corner of the shop (close it in, run the milk right from the tank to there). Heck anyone see "The simple life"? That farm looked like it was bottleing raw milk.

Either way, looked on the raw milk website, and the closest farm selling raw milk here, is 80 miles away. I'm smack dab right between two sources, but they are far enough away. HMMMMMM.



Jeff


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## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

tyusclan,
We can't even give it away legally!

They don't really like the people who own their own animals drinking raw milk.  :no: 

I was raised on raw whole Jersey milk and really, after that, I can't really stand store bought. It tastes watery to me.
Heck, I don't like goat's milk either...nothing compares to our Jersey milk in my personal opnion. Though I know a lot of people who disagree.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

JeffNY said:


> What did it take you to setup your facility, to bottle? I know I have a spot, back corner of the shop (close it in, run the milk right from the tank to there).


You'll have to check with your state health department to find out what regs you need to comply with. Don't start with the county health department, go straight to the state.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

worked as a store manager for retail chains 31 years....customer was always right no matter what.....wonder what it would be like to the first upset customer to look him in the eye and say.......GET THE [email protected]#$ OUT MY BARN.AND DON'T EVER COME BACK .might be worth the investment just to be able to say that....john


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

I've mentioned before that we're selling nigh to 30 gallons a week at $2.50 a gallon. They supply their own clean jugs and we fill them, then they come with clean empties to get their full jugs.

We never started out to sell milk, or rather trade it for feed money, but all of our customers have friends who want to start getting raw milk from us when our next Jersey freshens in April. We really had no clue that anyone locally, outside of our own extended family, would have an interest in raw milk.

This is the strangest situation I can imagine; educated and intelligent people washing thier own jugs and traveling to our farm twice a week, and others lining up to get unprocessed milk rather than buying the "safe" counterpart from their local store.


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## Mrs. Homesteader (May 10, 2002)

tyusclan said:


> You know, it kinda strikes me funny. All these regulations about selling raw milk (as well as meat, etc.) is supposed to be because of the safety and health of the public. BUT, the regulations are only concerned with SELLING those products. If I want to milk my cow and give away all the milk, that's fine. I can raise a hundred broilers, slaughter them in my back yard, and give them all away with no problem. It's only when someone SELLS to public that the regulators come down on them.
> 
> It seems to me if it was really about public health, it would be just as illegal to give it away. Wouldn't you think?


The Raw Milk lobby is still way too small. Look at ciggarettes. They are proven to cause cancer. They just have to label them as such and it is buyer beware. However, they have a HUGE lobby.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

bethlaf, where exactly are you at? I am near Yellville.


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## Christina R. (Apr 22, 2004)

Hi Finney Farm,

What is the name of the farm in N. AZ. selling raw milk? Just curious. THX.


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## FinneyFarm (Nov 27, 2004)

The dairy in Az. is Medowayne Dairy in Colorado City. I believe they are the only ones in AZ that are certified to sell raw milk also. Arizona will allow the retail sale of raw milk, it can be shipped within the state and sold but it cannot be shipped to another state. I tryed to get Utah to let me bring the arizona dairy inspecter in and inspect my dairy then let me take my raw milk into Arizona to sell. NO DEAL!! Raw milk cannot be shipped accross state lines for any reason. Medowayne was shipping their surplus milk to a cheese plant in Utah untill they realized it and shut that down. 

Finney


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

Dosthouhavemilk, that's amazing. I didn't realize there was anywhere that wouldn't even let you give it away. 

Mrs. Homesteader, you're exactly right about the lobbying. It's all about who has the money and how well the politicians' palms get greased.


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

I'm going to milk with a portable. Not going to put in line, there will be a dumping station with me, so it won't involve carrying it to the bulk tank. If I have to, and im making money, I won't mind it a bit. But what im going to do is put a feeler out, to see if there are any interested. I want to see if there is a demand before I start looking into it more. If there is a demand, enough to make it worth while (selling what I am producing), I will deal with the state's BS. If the market is here, and I have more demand than supply (better to be short, than over stocked), it would be a bonus. I could still buy organic grains, and I would still keep everything organic. I could call it all natural milk, of course explain to anyone curious what that is, if a cow gets sick I could treat her and not have to take her out of the milking herd once she is better, and the antibiotics are out of her system (as with any farm). It would be 100% legit, and would keep the animal here. But if this didn't work, it should make things interesting if I have to ship to dairylea.

So tell me if this would work. Say I took the back side of the shop, pretty good area. I had a stainless steal type sink (would be for bottleing), floors were lined to prevent any bacteria, and can be cleaned. Basically a sterile, clean, dust "free" eviornment. Would that work? A wood floor wouldn't be liked, unless it was covered with something that can get wet, and cleaned up, kinda like most kitchens. It seems the biggest gripe with any inspectors that inspect this kind of stuff. They want it clean, clean, clean. Heck, lick the floor clean. But the reason why I would put out a feeler, is because I would know whether it's worth working my grits off to make that back section like an operating room.


Jeff


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## petefarms (Oct 17, 2004)

I'm located upstate ny with the st. lawrence river across the road and then Canada, and do not know of anyone close selling raw milk, currently I'm giving 5 to 6 gallons of raw milk to family or an old family friend. It looks like I'll be getting a bit larger in the near future, I have 12 head and looks like the raw milk market will be worthwhile looking into. My wife has a state certified day care on the farm in the other house and yes the state has more BS than you can imagine, but it might be well worth my while to pursue this. Jeff farms you're quite a distance from where I am, but I like what you're doing. Like all the info from this website. Thanks.


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## Suzanne (May 10, 2002)

Maybe those of us out there who have raw milk available should some how post it. As us real small producers do not let the word out because ya never know if the State is listening.... :no:


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Yes, and they are going after supplements now. They will make it so that you cannot buy vitamin c (except in small amounts, ie. your RDA), with a prescription from a doctor (and they will be OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive). They are currently trying to pass a law so that you have to have a presription for vitamins, minerals, ect. in any decent dose. Look up CODEX. Anybody find it odd that this has not been on the news? :no:

http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com/codex-alimentarius.html

http://newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james24.htm

http://sumeria.net/health/hpb-codex.html


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## Jena (Aug 13, 2003)

tyusclan said:


> You know, it kinda strikes me funny. All these regulations about selling raw milk (as well as meat, etc.) is supposed to be because of the safety and health of the public. BUT, the regulations are only concerned with SELLING those products. If I want to milk my cow and give away all the milk, that's fine. I can raise a hundred broilers, slaughter them in my back yard, and give them all away with no problem. It's only when someone SELLS to public that the regulators come down on them.
> 
> It seems to me if it was really about public health, it would be just as illegal to give it away. Wouldn't you think?


It is illegal to give away stuff too. If I butcher my own steer, I cannot give it away. I can use it for myself and my family only.

Jena


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

It seems the best way to combat any state reg, is to play their game better, than they do. What I mean is, exceed their needs. If the demand is high here, high enough to empty the tank each day (can't see why not, especially if someone buys 5 gallons to make something). Not many 5 gallons to add up to an empty tank . We sold raw milk in 1993, only a few were buying. We had a Jersey, I was young and hated it because it was -30. If it was now, it wouldn't bother me. She was making 4 gallons or so a day, she could have made more. But she wasn't getting as much as she would need to make more. The neighbor, and a few others would buy. I guess she sold out every other day. Now this is 93, and this is without any advertiseing. As long as one could sell out each day, and get a nice fair price. I can't see why not? Of course, state pending.


Prohibiting raw milk sales is as bad as enforcing the seat belt law. Im still trying to figure how it is dangerous for someone else, if your not wearing your seat belt. Here in NY, its money but come on! Same thing goes for raw milk sales, its alllll money. I love how you hear "gotta support buisness", yet they restrict the hell out of buisnesses. Either way, im curious, anyone know if the state takes $$$$ out of what you make? Or is that the same ol' income tax?

petefarms, did you have a decent summer there? Was told that you guys didn't get the rains we got. While we were finishing 1st, some were half way through 2nd up there. I know it was cloudy here some days, and sunny there.


Jeff


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## petefarms (Oct 17, 2004)

Jeff farms, up along the river, we had a very rainy summer, needed to roof the house and wasn't able due to it raining every 2nd or 3rd day. Haying was real tough, I think a little farther south in Jefferson county it wasn't quite as bad. Some guys didn't get their hay up until late August. Anyway just have to figure this will be a better year.


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## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

Jeff NY, if you find out anything about NY will you post it, I did see that in NY Raw milk sales are permitted at the farm provided it has a permit. Can't find out what it takes to get a permit yet, I'm looking online, I really don't want to "talk" to anyone yet, I don't want anyone to think I'm selling milk just cos I have it! So if anyone can point me to NY rules and regs I'd appreciate it.

Carol K


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

Will do, my mother is going to call the dept of ag in albany to see what the rules are, etc. I am sure the biggest gripe they would have is a sanitary facility, or sanitary way of bottling. The person at the cornell co-op said "let them tell you what has to be done", hinting it is a pain. We'll see what they say.


Jeff


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## FinneyFarm (Nov 27, 2004)

If New York is anything like Utah, You will have your work cut out for you. Here is a few of the requirements I have to comply with:

Samples of milk taken monthly and shipped to the lab.(this also includes a facility inspection by the dairy inspecter) Good thing is the state picks up the tab for all the testing.

Coliform count under 10 per ml (thats the hard one!) 3 out of 5 tests must be under 10, if you get 3 bad samples out of the last 5, they shut you down and step up the testing, like once a week untill you are in compliance.

Standard plate count under 20,000 per ml

Somatic cell count under 350,000 per ml ( even this one is tough with a small herd, if one cow has mastitis, that one cow is a large percent of the milk)

Cows must be tested for bangs and tb yearly. (no test for bangs if they have been vacanated) A bulk tank milk test 4 times a year for bangs, if positive, each animal must be tested immediately and the culprit slaughtered asap!

cows must have a general udder health inspection by the vet every 6 months and a statment made for each cow. Also a CMT mastitis test preformed by the vet. (CMT is easy to do but they want the vet to see it.)

Milk must be chilled to 41 degrees or less within 2 hours after milking and the blend temp. cannot raise the milk up over 50 degrees ( that's adding the next milking to the vat.) If this happens you must discard the whole tank!

Milk can be sold only on the farm to consumers for household use and not for resale. (I guess i'm the milk cop huh?)

Everyone involved with the milk in any way must have a valid medical card or a food handlers permit, also must have a tb test themselves.

Any open sore and you cannot come close to the barn! Any contagious illness and you are baned also.

A hand wash station seperate from the milk room sink with single use towels.

Bottling can be done by hand, like holding the bottle under a spout on the bulk tank but it must be capped mechanicly. (that's where you must get creative. If anyone needs plans, I made one of these that made my dairy inspecter happy, crazy thing is, I have to load the lids one at a time by hand into the capper but I can't snap it on the jug by hand. I use snap lids but the law is the same even if you are screwing a lid on a jar.)

There are also codes on fly control, munure control, wastewater control, calf facilities and basic barn safety etc..

The label must say "raw milk" and the word "raw" must be the same size of font as the word "milk". You must have the physical address of the farm and the proper volume of the container on the label also. Plus the warning label we talked about earlier.

Other than that, it's quite simple 

No wonder so many farms gave up on the raw milk!

If I didn't love the milk and love the cows, I would let it all go but it's a good feeling when people tell you how much they enjoy the milk!

Raw milk is the way God intended us to drink it!

Happy Farming,

FINNEY


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

Jena said:


> It is illegal to give away stuff too. If I butcher my own steer, I cannot give it away. I can use it for myself and my family only.
> 
> Jena


I'm really shocked. I didn't know there was anywhere that wouldn't even let you give it away. Dosthouhavemilk said the same thing in an earlier post. Most places I've heard about, including here in Florida, don't care at all if you give it away. You just can't sell it.


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

Most of the regs, aside from the other tests are standard with regular milk. You don't want your milk warming above a certain temp anyways. Somatic Cell Count you want to keep low, especially if being picked up, you can get extra money for that.


But the other tests don't surprise me, im surprised rabies isn't a requirement. When I do this, the filling will take place seperate from the milk house. I don't really want a flood of people in the milk house. I'll see what is allowed for means of moving the milk. Can't see why one can't use a line, same line for milking to transfer it to where you bottle it, for my deal its literally up and over. So the milk would be "handled" seperately. Id likely build a room that would be as clean as a clean bulk tank. Use seperate shoes for milking, and seperate for bottleing. I'm sure they will be #%(#%, but if it's reasonable, as in, nothing ridiculous. I'll pursue it IF I can get enough people to sell,sell,sell. I know of people who want to buy it. I'll price it about the same as the equivalent to a gallon of regular whole milk. Why? Well its 22.00 selling organic milk cwt, it would be about $40.00 CWT selling it direct. Making almost twice as much, before expenses, and still twice as much after expenses. 

But if this didn't work, in the sence of finding enough people. I can always ship it, and keep a cow off to the side to sell to those who I personally know. If they bought 20 days out of 30, that is enough to pay the grain bill..


Jeff


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

Found out some basic info, and basic is key here. My mother called this morning, and talked to a lady at NY's USDA. Well she didn't have all the details, however the basic info (basic part) was that she didn't think you needed a permit if selling off the farm. However if it is being sold to a store, or something it needs a permit. She did say you need a warning label, and a sign stating its deadly and all (deadly = sarcaism intended). However, she pointed my mother in the direction of a state inspector, and we are awaiting his call. The inspector is the SAME guy that inspects any farm, this is traditional, organic or if your selling raw milk. Sounds like a similar thing as shipping the milk, they want the milk house clean.

Either way, I will be curious to see if she was right, because if that is the case. The local apple orchard could sell it, and this would likely mean a huge demand. They sell unpastuerized cider, and IMO whats the difference? You stand as equal of a chance getting sick from cider, as you do from milk. Milk IMO could be cleaner, if your opperation is clean (not out exposed to the air, bugs, bird droppings etc etc).


Jeff

We squeeze our own, raw cider and that is 10x better than boiled cider. I often wonder if the cider sold that is boiled is watered down a little, certainly tastes like it sometimes!


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## backwoods (Sep 12, 2004)

FinneyFarm said:


> Hello all, I have been enjoying this forum very much. I own a certified raw milk dairy in southern Utah, milking 14 Brown Swiss cows. I believe I am the only raw dairy in the state. I just recieved the update from the dept. of ag. with the updates to the raw milk code. No serious changes but they are now requiring me to print on my label in a conspicuous place this phrase,
> 
> "Studies have established a direct causal link between gastrointestinal disease and the consumption of raw milk. Raw milk, no matter how carefully produced, may be unsafe."
> 
> ...


And saliva causes cancer.But only in minute amounts when swallowed over a long period of time.If you are forced to use such an un-scientific statement then put a statement from Weston Price foundation about the good qualities of raw milk.I would.


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## chas (Dec 12, 2004)

When my goats are dry I buy raw milk 2.50 gal from a neighbor that's been liscenced forever.We are in New Castle Pa 50 mi. north of pittsburgh.20-25 mi from Youngstown Ohio.
Slippery Rock collage had someone come in and give a talk on raw milk. Since then the students have been hauling milk back like you wouldn't believe.He's not organic by any means. But better than the alternative!
WE have all been raised on raw milk and enjoy good health Dad is going to retire when he gets around to it.That's if mom will let him under foot in the house :haha: He's 81 and in better health than these kids today  I believe we are what we eat!
Chas


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## Charleen (May 12, 2002)

Just came across this thread, so I'm a little behind.

We purchase lots of parts from Parts Dept. They were very helpful to us when we ressurected an old Gast pump and converted it to milk our dairy goats. We had old SS DeLaval and McCormick buckets that needed some TLC too.

Hamby Dairy Supply has been helpful too. They have an ebay store in addition to their website.
http://hambydairysupply.com/xcart/home.php

We sell our raw goat milk but often trade things for it. Help with chores, trade for wood shavings, etc.


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## rileyjo (Feb 14, 2005)

Here in Ontario, it is illegal to produce, distribute or sell raw milk. The laws are pretty strict. Last week, 4 people were hospitalized with E-coli infections ( 1 child is quite ill) after they purchased raw milk from someone selling it from the trunk of their car.
I've never tried raw milk but I'd like to. I'll have to go find me a few criminals.


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## cloverfarm (Jun 1, 2004)

This is a little academic for us, now, having been out of dairying for almost two years (seems like longer ... sigh ...)

But as for the taste of store bought milk, I think it has a flat, cooked taste. The milk from our cows tasted sweeter.

(Edited to add) DH wanted to comment about someone earlier mentioned high cell counts ... it might help to get teh cows on test, identify the high cell count cows, and cull or dry treat. Especially in a small herd where one chronic cow can have such an impact. (Been there, done that ... we never milked more than 35)In my house-wifey experience, when our cell count got too high teh milk had very poor shelf life. Most of the time we were able to get our quality bonus and keep the cell count under 150,000 but if it got high the milk got a little funky a little fast. (Even with using the home pasteurizer. DH balked a little at that because he remembered very strange tasting home-pasteurized milk as a kid but we got a brand-new one and I couldn't tell the difference. Anyway ...)

We do miss the cows. But DH's dad was heavily involved and he has arthritis and possibly a form of muscular dystrophy ... so it was just awful hard to keep going.

However ... the kids all seem to have the cow bug and want to show calves in 4-H .. we'll see where we end up!  

Good luck with your endeavors
Ann


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

Those HolsteinxNorwegian red are impressive. Some with 30,000SCC. That is very impressive, but as anyone knows. Cleanliness will only help, dirty enviornment, you will get more problems. Whether you milk, or not, if the yard where they are is dirty, they will get problem after problem. Two priorities of people should be, keep their area clean and feeding. Both go together IMO.



Jeff


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## petefarms (Oct 17, 2004)

Jefffarms would you post who and where you specifically got the info on ny state regs for the sale of raw milk. Still think it is worth looking into. Thanks.


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