# Seattle to Fine Residents for Throwing Food in the Garbage



## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/curtis-kalin/seattle-fine-residents-throwing-food-garbage

"In an attempt to shame residents of their city, a new Seattle law will levy a fine on homes that do not properly sort food out of their garbage........For now, Seattle residents will be publicly shamed by the âScarlet Letterâ-like tags."

and further into the article,
"....The EPA has already begun a campaign to achieve laws similar to Seattleâs. The outstanding question remains: what purview is it of government to act as peopleâs trash nanny?"

Oh my:run:


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## Skandi (Oct 21, 2014)

If the city provides a compost collection service.. then ---- right they should be fined for not using it. sending food waste to landfill/incinerators is a crime. Though if you didn't like the idea of a crime, HUGE red tags on the bin might also work on some people, not all of course some people just do not care, it's all me me me. I don't think you should be charged to get the compost after though.. it should be free on a quota system of some sort. Since I assume you're paying for the rubbish collection in taxes or fees somewhere, shouldn't have to pay twice.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

I have a private contractor here. Small town, USA. No public trash service, no public police department (under jurisdiction of the State Police...response time is usually 30 minutes), local volunteer fire department.
On the other hand, hate to be the person sifting thru the garbage in the middle of summer.

Matt

BTW, we make our own compost.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Skandi said:


> If the city provides a compost collection service.. then ---- right they should be fined for not using it. sending food waste to landfill/incinerators is a crime. Though if you didn't like the idea of a crime, HUGE red tags on the bin might also work on some people, not all of course some people just do not care, it's all me me me. I don't think you should be charged to get the compost after though.. it should be free on a quota system of some sort. Since I assume you're paying for the rubbish collection in taxes or fees somewhere, shouldn't have to pay twice.


Charge more for the garbage collection, sort it themselves, profit if able from composting/recycling/scrapping, incinerate the rest. There is no need at all for this to be a political issue with EPA involvement.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Is it a crime to put food in the garbage?


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

7thswan said:


> Is it a crime to put food in the garbage?


Seeing that some people are too lazy to separate their trash, I suppose there is no other way to have people quit throwing perfectly good compost into landfills.
How do you propose they correct their laziness?


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

fireweed farm said:


> Seeing that some people are too lazy to separate their trash, I suppose there is no other way to have people quit throwing perfectly good compost into landfills.
> How do you propose they correct their laziness?


I'd sure love to come to your house and decide what your priorities should be.


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

> How do you propose they correct their laziness?


Rationing. If rationing was imposed it would change everyone's habits about all consumer products. People would be re-using or recycling everything that could possibly be recycled and they'd be bartering for things. There would be no food at all going into garbage and there would be very little real garbage to be disposed of.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

fireweed farm said:


> Seeing that some people are too lazy to separate their trash, I suppose there is no other way to have people quit throwing perfectly good compost into landfills.
> How do you propose they correct their laziness?


Is it a crime or not?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Fennick said:


> Rationing. If rationing was imposed it would change everyone's habits about all consumer products. People would be re-using or recycling everything that could possibly be recycled and they'd be bartering for things. There would be no food at all going into garbage and there would be very little real garbage to be disposed of.


Ration what?


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

So the city will pay a bunch of people to sort through your garbage before it goes into the trucks -- what a waste of taxpayers money!!:hair

I can't believe so many people here agree with the idea. I compost, however most city dwellers do not have that opportunity, they're already paying for garbage pickup and old/spoiled food is the very definition of garbage.

I'd rather go back to my childhood rules (1950's - 1960's): compost what you can, burn what you can, take the rest to the dump as needed. Packaging made more sense back then too.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

If you live in Seattle, you are required to have city trash collection.

The rules of the trash collection are that what you are throwing away has to be sorted.

Beginning Jan. 1, food waste that is compostable goes into its own bin. There are bins for other categories.

If you have more than a 10 percent error in sorting your disposables, you get warned and can be fined ($1 for residents, up to $50 for apartment complexes).

I don't think that failure to sort trash is a crime in itself. It's probably closer to a code violation.

But, fail to pay the fine, and it probably eventually winds up in some sort of a criminal court.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

fireweed farm said:


> Seeing that some people are too lazy to separate their trash, I suppose there is no other way to have people quit throwing perfectly good compost into landfills.
> How do you propose they correct their laziness?


 Well this is one way to do it. And it will stop dumpster diving so people don't get sick as well 2 good things all at once.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Reminds me of granola.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I do hear that seattle is chock full of libs,in some ways even worse that cali.
We do not have to sort our garbage in anyway.It's best not to put food in the garbage or the feral cats,*****,dogs will tear into it. Chickens get what our dogs don't eat.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

mnn2501 said:


> So the city will pay a bunch of people to sort through your garbage before it goes into the trucks -- what a waste of taxpayers money!!:hair
> 
> I can't believe so many people here agree with the idea. I compost, however most city dwellers do not have that opportunity, they're already paying for garbage pickup and old/spoiled food is the very definition of garbage.
> 
> I'd rather go back to my childhood rules (1950's - 1960's): compost what you can, burn what you can, take the rest to the dump as needed. Packaging made more sense back then too.


Some people like/accept the government useing the people to throw their weight arround. That's why the rest of us don't trust the gov. and their lies,,,methane gas my rear...


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## Tobster (Feb 24, 2009)

I can&#8217;t believe this is an issue for the good left leaning folks in Seattle. I am shocked! I always believed the people in Seattle played by the rules and lived in perfect harmony with nature and neighbors? I find it more believable that urban populations in red states such as Texas, Alabama or Arkansas would have this sort of problem. Trying to get all the Billy Bobs to line up and practice proper refuse etiquette (or as previous posters have put it, help them overcome their laziness) is a mission requiring the full force of law. No red tag on a garbage can is going cure their laziness. Nothing short of executing the first born male will get the citizens in those pesky red states to comply.

You gotta laugh when the garbageman is assigned the role of enforcing the newest laws on the book. When they swear him in and issue the ticket book, will they also give him a little badge to wear?


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Oggie said:


> If you live in Seattle, you are required to have city trash collection.
> 
> The rules of the trash collection are that what you are throwing away has to be sorted.
> 
> ...


So... does a dead cat qualify as wasted food?
What bin do politicians go in?


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Tobster said:


> I canât believe this is an issue for the good left leaning folks in Seattle. I am shocked! I always believed the people in Seattle played by the rules and lived in perfect harmony with nature and neighbors? I find it more believable that urban populations in red states such as Texas, Alabama or Arkansas would have this sort of problem. Trying to get all the Billy Bobs to line up and practice proper refuse etiquette (or as previous posters have put it, help them overcome their laziness) is a mission requiring the full force of law. No red tag on a garbage can is going cure their laziness. Nothing short of executing the first born male will get the citizens in those pesky red states to comply.
> 
> You gotta laugh when the garbageman is assigned the role of enforcing the newest laws on the book. When they swear him in and issue the ticket book, will they also give him a little badge to wear?


Why do it halfway? Authorize him/her to use deadly force! We are saving the earth, after all, no halfway measures! Take no prisoners!


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Harry Chickpea said:


> So... does a dead cat qualify as wasted food?
> What bin do politicians go in?


The dead cat would go into the bin marked "evil," because that's what cats are filled with.

They're at least 90 percent evil, so there's no way you'd end up getting fined.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Oggie said:


> The dead cat would go into the bin marked "evil," because that's what cats are filled with.
> 
> They're at least 90 percent evil, so there's no way you'd end up getting fined.


ahhh, the Obama bin.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Good grief. They deserve to be shamed and fined. How much simpler does life have to be made for people? You have garbage, compostable materials and recyclables. And in most cities they even colour co-ordinate the containers. Black for garbage. Green for compost. Blue for recylables. The kids in our grade school (including kindergarten) can do it so how pathetic does an adult have to be not to be able to follow a few simple guidelines? Composting and recycling actually saves/earns the city money which is passed on to the residents when we don't get a tax or utility increase. And the less garbage in the landfill the longer that site will last so that we don't end up having to truck garbage to the countryside from the cities.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Sounds like a city desperately short of pigs and chickens.....nature's garbage dis-pols-ALLS


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> I always believed the people in Seattle played by the rules and lived in perfect harmony with nature and neighbors?


I think you're confusing Seattle with Portlandia. ound:


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

emdeengee said:


> Good grief. They deserve to be shamed and fined. How much simpler does life have to be made for people? You have garbage, compostable materials and recyclables. And in most cities they even colour co-ordinate the containers. Black for garbage. Green for compost. Blue for recylables. The kids in our grade school (including kindergarten) can do it so how pathetic does an adult have to be not to be able to follow a few simple guidelines? Composting and recycling actually saves/earns the city money which is passed on to the residents when we don't get a tax or utility increase. And the less garbage in the landfill the longer that site will last so that we don't end up having to truck garbage to the countryside from the cities.


Good grief indeed. Why would anyone live anywhere politicians control their lives to that degree? You're right on one thing, people are idiots. Many, mainly on the left, jump for joy when government forces them to do the "right" thing. These are the same people who rely on government to provide them food, healthcare, free phones, cheap housing, fairness, jobs, other people's money, and now free college. And you expect those same people to understand rules?


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

http://www.seattle.gov/util/MyServices/FoodYard/HouseResidents/FoodWasteRequirements/index.htm


The little town of 350 that I live near and I worked at for 2 years has had this for 8 years now. Garbage every week. Recyclables or yard and food waste every other week. 3 carts. You pay garbage and the others are self supporting and didn't cost the residents extra. It is a county garbage company, same for all customers in the county. Bigger towns had it sooner. If the resident composts or recycles themselves they just didn't have that cart. Truck with cart lift, garbage in the morning, same truck recycle or compost in the afternoon. The residents can buy the compost for a very affordable price. Recyclables go to a center and are sorted....James


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Meh, no problems. CNS didn't tell the full story and that's to be expected from CNS. Most cities in the west have already adopted this disposal and recycling and composting system a long time ago and the west's environmentally conscious citizens are happy with the results. Seattle is no different, the only thing that's new there now is the scarlet letter thing to let transgressors know they're not putting their food waste in the right bins. 

For the anti-government, anti-epa, conspiracy minded right wing conservative folks who have been complaining about the liberals, here's the real scoop ....... It's an extreme liberal plot to force out what remains of conservatives in the west since the conservatives are the worst transgressors trying to buck the garbage system and throwing food away in the garbage. Once all of the scandalized conservatives have been driven out of the west in reaction to this terrible _'red letter garbage-gate'_ scandal the city will get rid of the scarlet letters since they won't need them any more. It will be a win win situation and everyone will be happy because the conservatives will be gone and happy that they're not getting red letters on their trash where they go, and the liberals will be happy digging in their gardens and spreading fresh new compost from the composting site. :happy2:


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## NickyBlade (May 27, 2008)

We've always just had trash and recyclables... I have a question for people separating food waste at home, what kind of bag do you separate it into? Do garbage bags compost or do you have to use a special type of bag? Paper bag? Does it smell when they're only collecting it every two weeks? 

We put just about all of our food waste (except bones) down our garbage disposal... so even if they started collecting food waste, I'd only have a small bag of bones every couple weeks. lol


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Paumon said:


> Meh, no problems. CNS didn't tell the full story and that's to be expected from CNS. Most cities in the west have already adopted this disposal and recycling and composting system a long time ago and the west's environmentally conscious citizens are happy with the results. Seattle is no different, the only thing that's new there now is the scarlet letter thing to let transgressors know they're not putting their food waste in the right bins.
> 
> For the anti-government, anti-epa, conspiracy minded right wing conservative folks who have been complaining about the liberals, here's the real scoop ....... It's an extreme liberal plot to force out what remains of conservatives in the west since the conservatives are the worst transgressors trying to buck the garbage system and throwing food away in the garbage. Once all of the scandalized conservatives have been driven out of the west in reaction to this terrible _'red letter garbage-gate'_ scandal the city will get rid of the scarlet letters since they won't need them any more. It will be a win win situation and everyone will be happy because the conservatives will be gone and happy that they're not getting red letters on their trash where they go, and the liberals will be happy digging in their gardens and spreading fresh new compost from the composting site. :happy2:


Ya, get rid of all them right wingers and libs won't have anyone paying the taxes that feed and house all those leftys.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

7thswan said:


> Ya, get rid of all them right wingers and libs won't have anyone paying the taxes that feed and house all those leftys.


Careful they will pull out those stats about how 'red' states use lots of foodstamps. Not that one would be an idiot (or just really principled) to not take advantage of all their taxes go towards.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

jwal10 said:


> http://www.seattle.gov/util/MyServices/FoodYard/HouseResidents/FoodWasteRequirements/index.htm
> 
> 
> The little town of 350 that I live near and I worked at for 2 years has had this for 8 years now. Garbage every week. Recyclables or yard and food waste every other week. 3 carts. You pay garbage and the others are self supporting and didn't cost the residents extra. It is a county garbage company, same for all customers in the county. Bigger towns had it sooner. If the resident composts or recycles themselves they just didn't have that cart. Truck with cart lift, garbage in the morning, same truck recycle or compost in the afternoon. The residents can buy the compost for a very affordable price. Recyclables go to a center and are sorted....James


Food waste is only picked up every other week? Phew, what a stinky mess that must be when the weather is warm.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

I know very few liberals, here anyway, that garden. They happily drop by and ask for some of ours, but don't like the physical work involved to make their own.
Just sayin'.

Matt


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## Glade Runner (Aug 1, 2013)

The epitome of nanny state insanity. The opportunity to recycle, compost, etc. is one thing, and I do all those things. But, when the state sticks a gun to your head and demands that you comply, that's tyranny. The left always, always stamps liberty into the ground when they get the chance, all in the name of doing "Good', of course the state gets to decide what is good. This is truly disgusting, and acceptance by so many is troubling but expected.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Glade Runner said:


> The epitome of nanny state insanity. The opportunity to recycle, compost, etc. is one thing, and I do all those things. But, when the state sticks a gun to your head and demands that you comply, that's tyranny. The left always, always stamps liberty into the ground when they get the chance, all in the name of doing "Good', of course the state gets to decide what is good. This is truly disgusting, and acceptance by so many is troubling but expected.


Here Here :hobbyhors Being a Southern American I call garbage as anything I don't want and want it gone .Since I am the one paying for it the first can out will do .:grumble::grumble:


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

The smell is not bad. We could use a paper bag or the recycle bag like Seattle. All yard waste could be put in the same can. When we negotiated the franchise fee, we were able to get a small 13 gallon garbage can, 1/2 the price of the previous small can. A lot less reusable waste going to the dump. In Seattle, they haul all the way to eastern Oregon, big cost. Only 1/2 as much to haul now and the rest is reused. It is not a liberal or right wing thing, it is the right thing. We used education, Seattle used a $1.00 incentive to get residents to recycle right, so the end product is better with less labor to remove the bad and get the maximum recycled. Saves labor, materials, fuel, roads, less pollution in the air. All good in the end. In this county it means less government involvement. Many recyclables are clean burned, making power. Less truck miles because the dump doesn't fill up so fast, keeping dump closer to the 3 counties it serves. Dump lasts longer, It costs a lot of money to get a dump sited, all passed on to residents. Here the dump is lined and covered with a membrane and the gasses are used to make power. All together the WHOLE process saves money....James

http://www.seattle.gov/util/MyServices/FoodYard/HouseResidents/KitchenStorageTips/index.htm


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

NickyBlade said:


> We've always just had trash and recyclables... I have a question for people separating food waste at home, what kind of bag do you separate it into? Do garbage bags compost or do you have to use a special type of bag? Paper bag? Does it smell when they're only collecting it every two weeks?
> 
> We put just about all of our food waste (except bones) down our garbage disposal... so even if they started collecting food waste, I'd only have a small bag of bones every couple weeks. lol


What jumped out at me was their claim that food in landfills generates greenhouse gases. Ok, it probably does. But does food in a compost bin generate less greenhouse gas?


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## Tessynae (May 13, 2006)

Nevada said:


> What jumped out at me was their claim that food in landfills generates greenhouse gases. Ok, it probably does. But does food in a compost bin generate less greenhouse gas?



If you continue to use logic you will receive an additional fine and Scarlett letter/tag!


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Good grief is right. I am constantly stunned by the lack of forward thinking, ability to change and prejudice that people exhibit. I guess I shouldn't be given how people have always had to be forced to change. But then people seem to only do things for money or when it directly affects them very personally. 

Even the farmers of the dust bowl era who ruined their land with their farming practices had to be paid by the government to adopt new scientific methods of farming because they were so stubbornly ingrained in their beliefs that they refused to see what worked. Even when they lost their soil, their animals and the actual farm they were still unwilling to change because of where and from whom the information came. Sad. And definitely anti-productive.

This is the case with garbage, compost and recycling today. These are huge and profitable resources. The rest of the world has already clued in. Changing policies to take advantage of this is just common sense but of course many are just too self-absorbed to see the big picture or lazy to make the effort. 

The city where I live for part of the year has not had to raise utility (sewer, water, garbage) fees in 3 years because of the sales from recycling and the savings from composting. The recycling center bought one of the Japanese Plastic to Oil machines and over the past 3 years they have extracted enough oil from the plastic to not only run the center (18,000 liters) but sell off the extra production at a huge profit. Paid for the machine in one year. Next up is converting the landfill to use the methane produced to heat public buildings. Shame on this bad, bad Conservative government for saving me money.

Humans live in societies &#8211; definition: A highly structured system of human organization for large scale community living that furnishes protection, continuity, security and a national identity for its members. 

One of the criteria for a successful society, civilization or even empire is the ability to control the waste (garbage) and sewage of the people involved. Rome was a master at this followed by hundreds of years of the Dark Ages (should be called the Filthy Ages). Of course to be successful structures had to be built and laws had to be implemented to ensure that people co-operated. In Rome you defecated on a toilet into a sewer system and garbage was collected by garbage men. In Renaissance Europe you threw the contents of your chamber pot or garbage can into the street where it fell on the heads of passersby and flowed into the local wells.

Another criteria for success is the co-operation of the people. For the greater good &#8211; definition: Actively participating with accountability in the positive growth of social, economic and political change.

Societies have leaders and government. Either chosen by the people or those who take power by force or tradition. But all create laws. No killing people, no stealing, don&#8217;t sell rotten meat, obey traffic laws, sort your garbage.

But of course some people like to pretend to be rebels and offended by ALL government control so if it makes you feel like a freedom fighter then throw you potato peels in with your newspapers. But we all know this is selective rebellion because you will stop for a red traffic light and you will teach your children to do the same.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Nevada said:


> What jumped out at me was their claim that food in landfills generates greenhouse gases. Ok, it probably does. But does food in a compost bin generate less greenhouse gas?


Yes composting does create green house gases - aerobic composting systems emit less total GHG (CO2e) than anaerobic composting systems. However there is an offset. Composting represents a recycled, low input form of slow release fertilizer. Compost application to soil reduces the amount of inorganic fertilizer required. Therefore, the net GHG emission is reduced because the energy-intensive fertilizer production and associated GHG emission is reduced. In addition, compost amended soil is more resistant to wind and water erosion because soil structure is improved and soil moisture-holding capacity is increased. Adding compost to soil alleviates soil compaction by improving root penetration, water absorption and drainage. 

So a gas lawn mower and a compost pile puts greenhouse gases into the atmosphere but one also provides enormous benefits along with the greenhouse gas. So get a push mower and then you can compost with a clear conscience because the GHG created by the useful one will be offset by controlling the not so useful one. And think of the exercise you get from a push mower. Win win.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I personally really want to reclaim all the waste in the land fill and burn it. Yep, there is a really neat incinerator that can burn up stuff so hot and create energy. I got to learn about while working on a campaign. See one man's waste is another's energy.
Mining the land fills would be great. Yea, some climate NORMALCY people will scream carbon poisoning but I hear that only impacts libs.


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## Billie in MO (Jun 9, 2002)

Hmm, I have not had trash service for over 6 years, let alone recycle bins. Guess I will continue as is with no worries.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Open air burning of garbage is highly polluting so this would be pointless for your own personal waste (backyard bonfire). 

However commercial incinerators have become highly environmentally friendly. Norway and Poland are both leaders in the field and in fact Norway imports as much garbage from Europe as it can get for its incinerators using clean burning equipment (like a catalitic converter for your car) to produce energy for the country. But they are now in competition with Germany which is always one of the first countries to advance and change and make money.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

emdeengee said:


> Yes composting does create green house gases - aerobic composting systems emit less total GHG (CO2e) than anaerobic composting systems. However there is an offset. Composting represents a recycled, low input form of slow release fertilizer. Compost application to soil reduces the amount of inorganic fertilizer required. Therefore, the net GHG emission is reduced because the energy-intensive fertilizer production and associated GHG emission is reduced. In addition, compost amended soil is more resistant to wind and water erosion because soil structure is improved and soil moisture-holding capacity is increased. Adding compost to soil alleviates soil compaction by improving root penetration, water absorption and drainage.
> 
> So a gas lawn mower and a compost pile puts greenhouse gases into the atmosphere but one also provides enormous benefits along with the greenhouse gas. So get a push mower and then you can compost with a clear conscience because the GHG created by the useful one will be offset by controlling the not so useful one. And think of the exercise you get from a push mower. Win win.


OK fine. Then that's the argument they should make.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

I expect that it should be relatively easy to remove the "scarlett letter". A bolt cutter should do the trick.

The question is, which bin does the "scarlett letter" go in?


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## Glade Runner (Aug 1, 2013)

Nevada said:


> What jumped out at me was their claim that food in landfills generates greenhouse gases. Ok, it probably does. But does food in a compost bin generate less greenhouse gas?


Bingo!! Of course you can't expect rationality or logic from people hell bent on enforcing good.


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## Glade Runner (Aug 1, 2013)

emdeengee said:


> Good grief is right. I am constantly stunned by the lack of forward thinking, ability to change and prejudice that people exhibit. I guess I shouldn't be given how people have always had to be forced to change. But then people seem to only do things for money or when it directly affects them very personally.
> 
> Even the farmers of the dust bowl era who ruined their land with their farming practices had to be paid by the government to adopt new scientific methods of farming because they were so stubbornly ingrained in their beliefs that they refused to see what worked. Even when they lost their soil, their animals and the actual farm they were still unwilling to change because of where and from whom the information came. Sad. And definitely anti-productive.
> 
> ...


The sheep look up and wonder what happened to liberty.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I don't see the downside. It is not hard to do. It is the right thing to do. IF you can, you should be doing it where ever you are. Many do, living in the country, making compost. Reuse, recycle. I don't agree with the $1.00 every other month fee, but to make the system work best, it is an incentive to do what is right. Just like the bottle bill, nickel to recycle instead of littering. I know there are those that don't like to buckle up, Click it or ticket. Rules, rules, rules....James


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

emdeengee said:


> Open air burning of garbage is highly polluting so this would be pointless for your own personal waste (backyard bonfire).
> 
> However commercial incinerators have become highly environmentally friendly. Norway and Poland are both leaders in the field and in fact Norway imports as much garbage from Europe as it can get for its incinerators using clean burning equipment (like a catalitic converter for your car) to produce energy for the country. But they are now in competition with Germany which is always one of the first countries to advance and change and make money.


See post 40. Would you believe the greenies freaked and lied about what is truly available.......clue there is money in reclining waste pits and since the money is put in escrow equivalent a group did not wish to stop relining methods. Oh friend and family business investments were linked to the various cal objectors.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

NickyBlade said:


> We've always just had trash and recyclables... I have a question for people separating food waste at home, what kind of bag do you separate it into? Do garbage bags compost or do you have to use a special type of bag? Paper bag? Does it smell when they're only collecting it every two weeks?
> 
> We put just about all of our food waste (except bones) down our garbage disposal... so even if they started collecting food waste, I'd only have a small bag of bones every couple weeks. lol


Seattle picks up every week. Use a paper bag or garbage bags made from material that breaks down over time, not regular plastic that never breaks down. These "special" bags cost no more than a regular plastic garbage bag. Some cities now even mandate these "special" bags instead of the regular plastic shopping bags. Many people use a small container kept in the refrigerator, emptied on trash day. I hope you are on city sewer system IF putting food stuffs down the drain, a septic system should never have a disposal. City sewer system works if not putting a lot of grease down, those systems break down the waste....James


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Glade Runner said:


> The sheep look up and wonder what happened to liberty.


The elephant also stops for red traffic lights. 

No society functions without laws. Our laws are not arbitrary - based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system - but made by consensus and if the consensus changes so do the laws. Obviously the consensus is that garbage needs to be dealt with in a responsible, sustainable and profitable way.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

emdeengee said:


> The elephant also stops for red traffic lights.
> 
> No society functions without laws. Our laws are not arbitrary - based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system - but made by consensus and if the consensus changes so do the laws. Obviously the consensus is that garbage needs to be dealt with in a responsible, sustainable and profitable way.


I guess you haven't been paying attention to our government officials lately. Even our Constitution is ignored on "someones" personal whim. Your pleas for bigger government is falling on deaf ears.


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## Convoy (Dec 2, 2012)

I personally look at it different after meeting my sister ex-fiancies father. He doesn't do left overs so after a meal is done everything left is thrown out. He also has weird rule like uncooked/unwashed potatoes are no good after a week so they also get thrown out. This made me to think that he already is paying for it through his food budget (which I'de hate to pay) and that stuff composts at the landfill. Also I want to mention people like that won't change even if they were left starving and a fine won't change a thing.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Not looking for bigger government. Looking for effective government and sometimes that means it will not suit everyone. 

Ignoring the constitution and the congress is something all the presidents like to do. Even Reagan was a bad boy.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

My position is simple. The people who make the garbage should be responsible for taking care of it. If this means that Seattle has to fine uncooperative residents then that is no more heavy handed then handing out a ticket for parking in front of a fire hydrant.

On the other hand Seattle and other big cities could simply continue on with the status quo or even go backwards (when the amount of garbage becomes unmanageable) by dumping scows of it in the ocean. I remember the beaches of the 70s and 80s. Of course some people might enjoy picnicking and paddling amongst the boomerang garbage bags. Or municipal and state governments can continue to create new landfill sites - buying convenient land or creating appropriately zoned land. That thousand acres next to your farm might be ideal. 

But Hark! Is that the sound pigs make when they fly? No. My mistake. LOL! That was the distress call of the Red Faced Country NIMBY.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> My position is simple. The people who make the garbage should be responsible for taking care of it. If this means that Seattle has to fine uncooperative residents then that is no more heavy handed then handing out a ticket for parking in front of a fire hydrant.
> 
> On the other hand Seattle and other big cities could simply continue on with the status quo or even go backwards (when the amount of garbage becomes unmanageable) by dumping scows of it in the ocean. I remember the beaches of the 70s and 80s. Of course some people might enjoy picnicking and paddling amongst the boomerang garbage bags. Or municipal and state governments can continue to create new landfill sites - buying convenient land or creating appropriately zoned land. That thousand acres next to your farm might be ideal.
> 
> But Hark! Is that the sound pigs make when they fly? No. My mistake. LOL! That was the distress call of the Red Faced Country NIMBY.


I'm a surfer. Been one all.my life. I don't remember ever seeing much garbage at all. I still own a beach house...just don't see it...or rising sea levels. Here in Los Angeles, most of the recyclable stuff still ends up going to the land fill because there is so little money in it after the environmental protections and fees are paid. I think the point of contention is that the government pays people to rummage through your trash to try and convict you. For trash!!!! Who knows what they'll find and use against you. One more step down that path to complete idiocy.

Hark..it's the call of the unbalanced environmentalists pushing their agenda on the people once again.


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## NickyBlade (May 27, 2008)

jwal10 said:


> Seattle picks up every week. Use a paper bag or garbage bags made from material that breaks down over time, not regular plastic that never breaks down. These "special" bags cost no more than a regular plastic garbage bag. Some cities now even mandate these "special" bags instead of the regular plastic shopping bags. Many people use a small container kept in the refrigerator, emptied on trash day. I hope you are on city sewer system IF putting food stuffs down the drain, a septic system should never have a disposal. City sewer system works if not putting a lot of grease down, those systems break down the waste....James


Thank you for answering. Our past 5 homes have been on military installations with city water and sewer, and each home has had a garbage disposal... It's also good to know that garbage disposals and septic systems don't mix! Although, if we lived where we had a septic, we would also have a compost pile... so I wouldn't need a garbage disposal.


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## Jim Bunton (Mar 16, 2004)

Oggie said:


> If you live in Seattle, you are required to have city trash collection.
> 
> The rules of the trash collection are that what you are throwing away has to be sorted.
> 
> ...


Is it an option to just add the extra dollar to my bill and not worry about it? I think recycling is B. S. until it gets to where it will pay for it's self. If compost isn't worth what it would cost to have some sort the garbage it isn't worth separating. Same goes for plastic, glass, aluminum etc.

Jim


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Recycling does pay for itself. It pays in less land needed for landfills. That is all it really needs to accomplish. Lazy homeowners that don't think it is a needed thing should pay a fine and get a red letter.


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## Jim Bunton (Mar 16, 2004)

A set amount of garbage takes up a set amount of land. That does not change if you put it all in one dumpster, send a truck to pick it up and haul it to the land fill, or you put it several bins, send out a couple of trucks to pick it up and haul it to a couple of places to dump it. 

If this made economic sense then it some one would be looking for a contract to be allowed into dumps to mine through the garbage for what ever they can profit from. 

Jim


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Jim Bunton said:


> A set amount of garbage takes up a set amount of land. That does not change if you put it all in one dumpster, send a truck to pick it up and haul it to the land fill, or you put it several bins, send out a couple of trucks to pick it up and haul it to a couple of places to dump it.
> 
> If this made economic sense then it some one would be looking for a contract to be allowed into dumps to mine through the garbage for what ever they can profit from.
> 
> Jim


I think you have that wrong. Recyclables don't go into the landfill. They are either turned into materials that will be reused or with food wastes they are composted into new soil or fertilizer and then sold to consumers or used on public landscaping projects.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

That is for sure just look at how many plastic bottles are now made all with Recycled Plastic. Tons of them. Especially the cases and cases of just plain Water that is sold in this country.
So many things are now made with or partially made with recycled materials. And they are not coming form land fills they are getting them directly from these places That DO have recycling bins in use.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Seattle paid to ship 100,000 TONS of compostable material to Eastern Oregon. This will all go to compost now, PLUS an estimated double that, was being hauled to the landfill. 300,000 TONS. Not only that but all food soiled waste (napkins, pizza boxes, etc) can now go in the recycle can instead of having to go in the garbage can. Food soiled waste could not be recycled before in the regular recycle bin. It is estimated that there will be 1,000,000 (1 million) tons total, of recycled material, just from Seattle alone.

The one thing I do not like is Seattle doing it themselves. I think it should be privately run, We have 3 options here and the bidding process keeps prices low. Residents wishes are part of the process. There is a signed contract every 3 years. Tagging with the rest of the county even gives a better contract. For the last 6 years this company even sponsors a city wide cleanup day. The company brings in heavy equipment to load. There is a metal dumpster, the company gives the city the money from it. Electronic waste and tires are recycled too. There are people who collect the trash all year, without garbage service that get rid of it at this cleanup day. Afterwards there is a celebration at the community center, pizza and pop all furnished by the waste management company. All for $5.35 a month....James

http://www.seattle.gov/util/MyServices/FoodYard/HouseResidents/FoodWasteRequirements/index.htm


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Wlover said:


> I think you have that wrong. Recyclables don't go into the landfill. They are either turned into materials that will be reused or with food wastes they are composted into new soil or fertilizer and then sold to consumers or used on public landscaping projects.


That's how it should work but I have read numerous articles over the past decade about counties not having an outlet for recyclables and them finally sending it to a land fill.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

JeffreyD said:


> I'm a surfer. Been one all.my life. I don't remember ever seeing much garbage at all. I still own a beach house...just don't see it...or rising sea levels. Here in Los Angeles, most of the recyclable stuff still ends up going to the land fill because there is so little money in it after the environmental protections and fees are paid. I think the point of contention is that the government pays people to rummage through your trash to try and convict you. For trash!!!! Who knows what they'll find and use against you. One more step down that path to complete idiocy.
> 
> Hark..it's the call of the unbalanced environmentalists pushing their agenda on the people once again.


I certainly hope that you documented these areas of pristine garbage free ocean and beach and passed this information along to the environmentlists and appropriate government agencies so that they may study why there is no garbage land in in these areas. Must be something exceptional going on.

We (together and separately) have been travelling (car, boat) and fishing along the coast since the 1960s - both east and west from California to Alaska through British Columbia and from New York to Florida and have never been to a beach or floating anywhere on the ocean where we have not seen garbage - some of it obviously left by inconsiderate users but also lots of clearly identifiable boomerang garbage. The 1960s, 70s and 80s were terrible. The last two and half decades have seen a huge improvement because so much is no longer dumped in the ocean but of course there is still lots of illegal dumping and as normal the currents still bring it in and take it out to form the gyres. And of course a lot of what is dumped on one side of the Pacific finds its way to the other.

And Hark I hear the bleat of the self absorbed surfer living in denial whose only concern is a good ride. Otherwise you would educate yourself on just how our garbage affects the marine ecosystems - some of which are now irreparable. Garbage is not just what is floating and returning to shore but look beneath the waves.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

mnn2501 said:


> That's how it should work but I have read numerous articles over the past decade about counties not having an outlet for recyclables and them finally sending it to a land fill.


Not the case in this situation though. I can't see them fining etc. if the don't actually do something different with the separated items.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

In the beginning recycling was a very new idea and many thought it was a very yucky ewwwwww idea. There were a lot of challenges not only in collecting recyclables but in finding uses for these items. That has changed dramatically and continues to change with new ideas and entrepreneurs getting involved. Huge money to be made.

The first recycling concept was putting a deposit on soda cans and bottles. It has worked wonderfully for close to 60 years and the amount of aluminum saved is just mind boggling. And sand is becoming an endangered commodity with sand pirates operating all over the world - stealing entire beaches - and many being funded by their governments. Google it. It is amazing and almost humourous if it were not so serious.

Many cities and countries even pay their residents for their recylables either in cash or exchange products (fresh fruits and veggies and meat is a huge exchange) or municipal credits that can be used for taxes, utilities, transportation.

If some of your recyclables end up in the land fill it is better than all of it ending up in the land fill and given time and new equipment (like the Japanese Plastic to Oil machine which uses all plastics including bags and wrap) and new ideas more and more sources for recyclables will be added. And of course as virgin resources (particularly minerals) become more and more difficult, dangerous and expensive to retrieve we will all become like the old rag and bone men who collected every scrap that could be reused and sold.


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

FYI for all: Japan has "garbage police" who make sure every recyclable is recycled. They levy fines and shame citizens as punishment.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> I certainly hope that you documented these areas of pristine garbage free ocean and beach and passed this information along to the environmentlists and appropriate government agencies so that they may study why there is no garbage land in in these areas. Must be something exceptional going on.
> 
> We (together and separately) have been travelling (car, boat) and fishing along the coast since the 1960s - both east and west from California to Alaska through British Columbia and from New York to Florida and have never been to a beach or floating anywhere on the ocean where we have not seen garbage - some of it obviously left by inconsiderate users but also lots of clearly identifiable boomerang garbage. The 1960s, 70s and 80s were terrible. The last two and half decades have seen a huge improvement because so much is no longer dumped in the ocean but of course there is still lots of illegal dumping and as normal the currents still bring it in and take it out to form the gyres. And of course a lot of what is dumped on one side of the Pacific finds its way to the other.
> 
> And Hark I hear the bleat of the self absorbed surfer living in denial whose only concern is a good ride. Otherwise you would educate yourself on just how our garbage affects the marine ecosystems - some of which are now irreparable. Garbage is not just what is floating and returning to shore but look beneath the waves.


Why on earth would I invite unbalanced environmentalists to show them clean beaches when, in fact, most all ARE clean. Not sure where your going, but I see very little trash anywhere near Malibu, Zuma, Crystal Cove, Huntington Beach, Oxnard, and a few others. I can't comment on Santa Monica, cause I won't go there. I was born and raised here in Southern California and have been going to the beach the better part of 45 years. 

I still here the bleat of unbalanced environmentalists whining about something that exists only in their feeble minds. Sure, there's trash out there, but nothing like what's being foisted upon us by those with an agenda. The "great garbage patch" really isn't. Most of the trash I've seen in recent years was in Bandon Oregon and was from Japan....maybe radioactive! !! The marine ecosystem will always be there. Always. And those gyres are a confluence of tiny particles that collect and don't do anything but float in the same exact spot because of the way currents flow. You should educate yourself more about them and the effects they don't have on the marine ecosystem. As I sit on my balcony overlooking the Pacific Ocean without trash!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

ldc said:


> FYI for all: Japan has "garbage police" who make sure every recyclable is recycled. They levy fines and shame citizens as punishment.


Good for them. They also do not have a Constitution.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

WARNING!- DO NOT PUT GARBAGE IN THE GARBAGE ! YOU WILL BE FINED! THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION !

THE ESTABLISHMENT


Wade


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

1shotwade said:


> WARNING!- DO NOT PUT GARBAGE IN THE GARBAGE ! YOU WILL BE FINED! THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION !
> 
> THE ESTABLISHMENT
> 
> ...


"But your honor, the sign said 'Fine for Garbage', so that's where I put my garbage."


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

JeffreyD said:


> Good for them. They also do not have a Constitution.


That's silly. Of course Japan has a Constitution. Here it is:
http://japan.kantei.go.jp/constitution_and_government_of_japan/constitution_e.html


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Nevada said:


> "But your honor, the sign said 'Fine for Garbage', so that's where I put my garbage."



Nice twist!

Wade


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Paumon said:


> That's silly. Of course Japan has a Constitution. Here it is:
> http://japan.kantei.go.jp/constitution_and_government_of_japan/constitution_e.html


Good for them! I didn't see anything about citizens rights tho. Did i miss that? Some day when I care enough, I'll have to give it more than a cursory look.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

at least i know I can always come here for my dose of perspective. 



> In Seattle, food waste collection became mandatory beginning Jan. 1 under a new city ordinance. Beginning in July, residents and apartment buildings that fail to sort food waste will be fined -- $1 per infraction for houses and $50 for multiunit buildings.
> 
> 
> *The city believes the new law will divert 38,000 tons of garbage from landfill annually, reducing costs and greenhouse gas emissions from truck transpor*t


http://www.fiercecities.com/story/food-waste-composting-spreads-american-cities/2015-01-29


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2015)

Is it fair to fine & shame people for being stupid ? It doesn't take a genius to operate a garbage disposal .


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

WV Hillbilly said:


> Is it fair to fine & shame people for being stupid ? It doesn't take a genius to operate a garbage disposal .


Okay, this is the 3rd reference I've seen to a "garbage disposal".

But I'm not familiar with that term so just for clarification, what is a garbage disposal? 

Are you referring to what we call a kitchen sink "garburetor" used for grinding up things like coffee grounds, potato peels and other soft foods and flushing them down the kitchen drain into the sewer system? Because if that's what you're talking about then not all cities' sewer systems are set up or approved for those and even in cities where the sewers are set up for it, not all homes have them. I've never lived in a house that had a garburetor and don't know anyone who has one in their house or apartments.

Or are you all referring to some other American-only type of mechanism that you call a garbage disposal and if so, can you please describe what it is, what kind of garbage does it dispose of and how and where it disposes of the garbage?


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Yes, same thing. Google is your friend....James

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_disposal_unit


In the U.S. some 50% of homes had disposal units as of 2009,[12] compared with only 6% in the United Kingdom[13] and 3% in Canada


http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/many-canadians-use-toilet-as-garbage-disposal-1.1002134


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

JeffreyD said:


> Good for them! I didn't see anything about citizens rights tho. Did i miss that? Some day when I care enough, I'll have to give it more than a cursory look.


Chapter 3. Article 11-30. We, as victors, helped write the document and directed a lot of what is in it.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

plowjockey said:


> at least i know I can always come here for my dose of perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.fiercecities.com/story/food-waste-composting-spreads-american-cities/2015-01-29


I guess this is in response to my reply above. 

The 38,000 tons is referenced in the Seattle website as food waste, not garbage.

http://www.seattle.gov/util/MyServices/FoodYard/HouseResidents/FoodWasteRequirements/index.htm

My numbers are for Compostable materials, as referenced in the Seattle website as to the 100,000 tons that has been shipped to Eastern Oregon to be disposed of in a land fill. That will now be combined with yard waste and food soiled materials and composted.

Seattle has had a 2 cart system, now a 3 cart system. Yard debris and food waste will be collected to be composted, along with food soiled material, that previously could not be recycled. Also Seattle has had a "Opt in" food waste collection all along. From this program they are expanding to a city wide collection, same as we have here.

Also to clarify again, the fine is $1.00/ billing cycle. Bills are Bimonthly, both referenced in the Seattle website....James


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

jwal10 said:


> I guess this is in response to my reply above.
> 
> The 38,000 tons is referenced in the Seattle website as food waste, not garbage.
> 
> ...


Not really. The OP was referring to food waste, not food contaminated materials, which maybe be either recycled or composted, but you do have a good point.

Mine was, that if I can compost my own garbage behind the barn for free, what's the problem with a city of 700,000, doing the same? Or 7 million, foir that matter?

It's like complaining about the EPA fussing over the pollution, from my little lawnmower, oblivious to the fact that _*overall*_, laenmowers burn 800 million gallons of gasoline each year, once contributing to 5% of air pollution.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

You CAN do that in Seattle, you can get a waiver and compost yourself. Also in Seattle, food contaminated materials could not be recycled, they had to go in the garbage can. Doesn't make sense to me , but something about it having to be taken to a separate landfill, thus the hauling to Eastern Oregon. I guess the same as can not be fed to pigs many places. Another way to charge money? Here, you can save money by cutting down the size of your garbage can. The 2 recycle bins are picked up free....James


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

And boy Am I glad I have a 20 year lawnmower that doesn't have all that CA carp on it. And all that so call safety carp on it. Oh it HAD some but they were promptly Taken OFF.
This safety stuff that is now on things is pure baloney.
My new weed eater had a stop on the throttle that you had to Depress a lever FIRST before you could depress the dern thing.
Well I TOOOK THAT off as soon as I saw that I could. Now it runs better at a slow idle I barley have to touch the throttle. And having arthritis it is now Arthritic Friendly to use~!
The EPA and all this carp they have mandated can go straight to you know where. LOL


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

arabian knight said:


> And boy Am I glad I have a 20 year lawnmower that doesn't have all that CA carp on it. And all that so call safety carp on it. Oh it HAD some but they were promptly Taken OFF.
> This safety stuff that is now on things is pure baloney.
> My new weed eater had a stop on the throttle that you had to Depress a lever FIRST before you could depress the dern thing.
> Well I TOOOK THAT off as soon as I saw that I could. Now it runs better at a slow idle I barley have to touch the throttle. And having arthritis it is now Arthritic Friendly to use~!
> The EPA and all this carp they have mandated can go straight to you know where. LOL


PLEASE PATENT YOU ADA MACHINES THANK YOU 

My tiller, post hole digger, snow blower could use some improvements.

My lawmower is great and I get milk too.....and gas .


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

kasilofhome said:


> PLEASE PATENT YOU ADA MACHINES THANK YOU
> 
> My tiller, post hole digger, snow blower could use some improvements.
> 
> My lawmower is great and I get milk too.....and gas .


 The correct term for that thingy I took off is, wait of it.



*OPERATOR PRESENCE LEVER* Whoopee 

You have to press that down before the throttle one can be used.
What a PAIN in the you know what when your fingers and wrists are full of arthritis. And just to speed it up a little bit or when starting to open the throttle up more you have press that thingy down first, What in the world are these safety people thinking? and where are their Brains? 
Well we know where most of them have their brains. LOL
I was able to take the handle apart and take OUT that part~!!!!! Now it is no where to been seen. LOL


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

kasilofhome said:


> PLEASE PATENT YOU ADA MACHINES THANK YOU
> 
> My tiller, post hole digger, snow blower could use some improvements.
> 
> My lawmower is great and I get milk too.....and gas .


Better because we need ban that kind of gas also. You know how bad that stuff is for the environment. <sarc>


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2015)

Yep , if the EPA had their way they would ban fumes from 4 legged grass mowers .


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

kasilofhome said:


> PLEASE PATENT YOU ADA MACHINES THANK YOU
> 
> My tiller, post hole digger, snow blower could use some improvements.
> 
> My lawmower is great and I get milk too.....and gas .



Wait a minute. Did I read that right? Your lawn mower cuts grass,and gives milk,and the milk gives you gas? Right??
NA! I'm just mess'n with ya' LOL! 

Wade


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

arabian knight said:


> The correct term for that thingy I took off is, wait of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's the same thing that's been going on for years. Just like the child proof pill bottles. Children are the only ones that can get them open! Well, used to be anyway.

Wade


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

we've been doing this for many years. in the country I have my compost bin so didn't use the green bin. here in the city I do. we put all food stuff, thin cardboard . garden waste etc in green bin that goes every 2 weeks in winter . every week in summer. blue bags with the recycleables every week. refuse in green bags every 2 weeks. 

we are going to clear bags for refuse in april but we are allowed 1 green personal bag. I only have 1 bag for refuse every 2 weeks anyway so that will be the green bag. I did hear last year there were going to be people going around inspecting some bags because people were not obeying the rules. didn't apply to me because I'm very careful. ~Georgia.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Jim Bunton said:


> Is it an option to just add the extra dollar to my bill and not worry about it? I think recycling is B. S. until it gets to where it will pay for it's self. If compost isn't worth what it would cost to have some sort the garbage it isn't worth separating. Same goes for plastic, glass, aluminum etc.
> 
> Jim


I live in an area that has an extremely successful recycling program. We don't recycle food waste into a separate container, but many years ago, each household was provided a bin and the list of recyclables has grown exponentially. It only takes a moment to throw recyclable items into the bin. Aside from the "green" benefits, our county makes money with the recycling program and that impacts our tax bills and creates jobs. The best part is that this boon is a freebie that is reaped from what we used to throw away. It really is money for...nothing!

Bright orange stickers are left on recycling bins that are not in compliance (filled with regular household trash, etc...), though code enforcement will ticket homeowners who put inappropriate, large trash items out at the curb. We regularly set out two or three bins each week, though most homes only use one. If we were to begin recycling food, I don't think that it would be any more difficult. We always scrape plates and feed scraps to the chickens. Without chickens, we'd probably just set up a bag in another recycling bin. It isn't difficult.

Once a month (in good weather) each area puts large trash items and yard waste out at the curb. If you have a lot of stuff to put out and it isn't your week to do so, then you can call for a special pickup. It really isn't that hard. I'm a landlord and find that looking after the trash from multiple units requires very little time on my part. The most difficult times are when a tenant moves out and leaves a couch behind, or something.

Managing garbage and waste is important...What kind of a world do we really want to leave to our kids?


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

Deleted for nastiness. I just can't stand busy-bodies.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

What happens when your cans are at the curb and someone throws trash in your recycling can?


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

JeffreyD said:


> What happens when your cans are at the curb and someone throws trash in your recycling can?


Have you seen evidence of people doing stuff like that where you live?

I've seen instances of people walking down the alleys systematically distributing small grocery bags of their own excess garbage into other people's garbage bins, but I've never seen people putting their garbage into other people's recycle or compost bins.

There wouldn't be much point in putting garbage in recycle bins when they could just as easily put them in the garbage bins standing right next to them.

What do you mean when you ask 'what would happen'? To who, or to what? Can you elaborate?


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

IMO most people do not have a real understanding of the scope of the garbage problem or the actual importance of garbage. We tend to just look at our own quantity of garbage and think things are not as bad as some would make out. We like to live in a clean world but have very little understanding of what it takes to keep it clean and just how easily and quickly it can all fall apart. Garbage and sewage have been some of the greatest problems in human history but humans have and are solving them on a daily basis. And it does mean change. And it is not just personal household garbage that affects our lives. Industrial garbage is in a league of its own.

There is a wonderful documentary series called TRASHOPOLIS which is all about garbage around the world. Not only the ways of dealing with it but looking at it from an archaeological point of view. You would think it would be boring but it is really interesting. Gross in some scenes but then garbage is gross but we like to hide it away and pretend it does not exist.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymi1KY4jxbc[/ame]


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Landfills increase bald eagle populations.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

You may "rebel" against separating your potato peels from your newspapers but that will change given the huge amount of garbage versus the space to put it. People who live in the country or less populated parts think that city and industrial garbage will not affect them. This is patently incorrect. You see it everywhere. All you have to do is drive or walk down country roads and go into off road sites. I remember nearly having an apoplectic fit when we found huge quantities of construction garbage dumped onto our property. Not such a rural paradise anymore and it took forever to clean it up not to mention what it cost and of course we never found out who did it. And of course truck and trains cross country, state, municipal borders every day hauling garbage to dump in less inhabited or poorer regions and it would be unwise to think that they will not stop for lunch in your area when it is closer and cheaper than hauling further away.

People like to blame the government for infringing on their "freedom" to garbage as they will. But in reality it is our society and neighbours who have brought about the biggest changes in our behaviour.

You don't throw your Starbucks coffee cup onto the sidewalk or toss your MacDonald's wrappers out the car window because littering is no longer socially acceptable. You don't spit or pee or defecate on the side walk or side of the roads because society does not accept this when it used to be completely normal. Some things change because of aesthetics or practical reasons but some things change for health reasons. The first sewers and garbage collections were introduced to prevent diseases from entering the water systems. 

I am very pleased that the kids in my area do not have to walk through garbage or sewage to go to school or to play so if this means that I have to sort compost from garbage and recycle in order to maintain this standard then I am very happy to evolve.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Now no peeing or spitting on the side if the road.....I missed that memo.
Having great kidneys and a small bladder I know every place on the 200 mile route to anchorage where I often wait my turn for a bush. I have a roll of to in the car for a reason. There are trash containers at the pull outs to the bushes for disposal of the tp.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> What happens when your cans are at the curb and someone throws trash in your recycling can?


The recycling truck comes and takes the good recyclables, but they leave the trash behind in the recycling bin. If the regular trash truck hasn't come by yet, then the recycling guy will just dump the trash into my regular trash can. If by chance I were to receive an orange sticker (indicating an infraction) there is no fine...it is just an FYI to be more careful next time.

Most of the time, stickers are not given for recycling bin infractions. They are given when people do things like put out 3 sofas and a washing machine at once or put out old tires. These are items that the regular trash crew cannot handle and we are restricted as to which week of the month that we can put them out. We received an infraction for putting out a trash can that was too heavy. It was one of those big ones on wheels and it was filled with all sorts of stuff making it a hazard for the trash crew to lift. We just broke the stuff down into bags and put it out the following week. It never occurred to us that it was just too heavy!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Paumon said:


> Have you seen evidence of people doing stuff like that where you live?
> 
> I've seen instances of people walking down the alleys systematically distributing small grocery bags of their own excess garbage into other people's garbage bins, but I've never seen people putting their garbage into other people's recycle or compost bins.
> 
> ...


Every week! The illegal immigrants wonder around the neighborhoods waiting for the recyclable cans to be put out. Then they go through them.looking for metal and plastic. The next one comes by and see's the recyclable can has been gone through and starts transferring trash from one can to another to try and find anything left. Might happen 5 or 6 times...at each house! It's illegal to steal from the recyclable can, but illegal immigrants don't care, and neither does the city. We're a sanctuary city don't ya know. So illegals get special treatment around here. Special laws just for them!

So what would happen if the garbage police find all this different waste in different cans? How could the owner possibly be held responsible? 

I should mention that our trash trucks have a remote arm that grabs the can and automatically dumps it. There's no way these union workers are going to get out of the cab to look in a stinky can...no way! We don't use trash bags either!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

TheMartianChick said:


> The recycling truck comes and takes the good recyclables, but they leave the trash behind in the recycling bin. If the regular trash truck hasn't come by yet, then the recycling guy will just dump the trash into my regular trash can. If by chance I were to receive an orange sticker (indicating an infraction) there is no fine...it is just an FYI to be more careful next time.
> 
> Most of the time, stickers are not given for recycling bin infractions. They are given when people do things like put out 3 sofas and a washing machine at once or put out old tires. These are items that the regular trash crew cannot handle and we are restricted as to which week of the month that we can put them out. We received an infraction for putting out a trash can that was too heavy. It was one of those big ones on wheels and it was filled with all sorts of stuff making it a hazard for the trash crew to lift. We just broke the stuff down into bags and put it out the following week. It never occurred to us that it was just too heavy!


Here in Los Angeles, no one picks up trash cans. The truck does it automatically so the workers don't lift the cans, or get out of the truck for any reason....union says they might get hurt....so we get expensive trash trucks instead. We have 3 different trucks that come by, trash, green waste, and recyclable. Most of the green waste and recycled material end up at the land fill anyway because it's too costly for new recycling plants to be built because of all the emission and seqa, nepa, and eirs that need to be filed and fees are insane!


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Jeff....We have the same deal here. Stay res put out boxes to collect plastic used store bags and employees empty the boxes in the back room trash.... simple feel good for the greenies


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## Doggonedog (Dec 4, 2014)

We have the same type of set up as TheMartianChick but the recyclables are only picked up once a week. The same day as regular garbage but a separate truck, it is kept separate, and it does work to to keep that can be recycled out of the landfill.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

I live in the country. Garbage pick up got too expensive for me a long time ago.I started buying an annual permit which allows you to "meet the truck" in various locations. The closest for me in on Fridays from one to three pm about ten miles away. The permits started at $20 then 25,30,35,now 40 for the year. They have a recycle bin they carry with them and all is well as long as the get your $40 a year.

Wade


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

JeffreyD said:


> Every week! The illegal immigrants wonder around the neighborhoods waiting for the recyclable cans to be put out. Then they go through them.looking for metal and plastic. The next one comes by and see's the recyclable can has been gone through and starts transferring trash from one can to another to try and find anything left. Might happen 5 or 6 times...at each house! It's illegal to steal from the recyclable can, but illegal immigrants don't care, and neither does the city. We're a sanctuary city don't ya know. So illegals get special treatment around here. Special laws just for them!
> 
> So what would happen if the garbage police find all this different waste in different cans? How could the owner possibly be held responsible?
> 
> I should mention that our trash trucks have a remote arm that grabs the can and automatically dumps it. There's no way these union workers are going to get out of the cab to look in a stinky can...no way! We don't use trash bags either!


What you are describing sounds like a form of social vandalism and disrespect for community, a civics problem happening in your city whereby certain people in the community are disregarding or unaware of their civic responsibilities to their community. It's not really about garbage pickup and recycling per se, it's really about a social problem with a certain 'unwelcome' sect of your society tampering with other people's property. So I think the situation is one that needs to be handled differently from the way it's handled in other cities where most citizens including homeless dumpster divers and illegal immigrants do have more respect for their community and are aware and take their civic responsibilities to their community more seriously.

If it was a problem that I had to deal with I would deal with it by making the garbage and recycling materials inaccessible to the people who are tampering with them.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Paumon said:


> What you are describing sounds like a form of social vandalism and disrespect for community, a civics problem happening in your city whereby certain people in the community are disregarding or unaware of their civic responsibilities to their community. It's not really about garbage pickup and recycling per se, it's really about a social problem with a certain 'unwelcome' sect of your society tampering with other people's property. So I think the situation is one that needs to be handled differently from the way it's handled in other cities where most citizens including homeless dumpster divers and illegal immigrants do have more respect for their community and are aware and take their civic responsibilities to their community more seriously.
> 
> If it was a problem that I had to deal with I would deal with it by making the garbage and recycling materials inaccessible to the people who are tampering with them.


I agree, but it is a problem. This is why we can't have garbage police. There's no way we can make it inaccessible to them. The cans have to be on the street, the trucks start coming by around 6am...i will have been at work for hours by the time the cans are done. I know it sounds kinda weird, but the pickers will sit near houses that haven't put their trash out yet, just waiting. If you stand by the cans, they won't go near them, but who wants to to that? The city and county are on the side of the pickers, because, well, just because!


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> Every week! The illegal immigrants wonder around the neighborhoods waiting for the recyclable cans to be put out. Then they go through them.looking for metal and plastic. The next one comes by and see's the recyclable can has been gone through and starts transferring trash from one can to another to try and find anything left. Might happen 5 or 6 times...at each house! It's illegal to steal from the recyclable can, but illegal immigrants don't care, and neither does the city. We're a sanctuary city don't ya know. So illegals get special treatment around here. Special laws just for them!
> 
> So what would happen if the garbage police find all this different waste in different cans? How could the owner possibly be held responsible?
> 
> I should mention that our trash trucks have a remote arm that grabs the can and automatically dumps it. There's no way these union workers are going to get out of the cab to look in a stinky can...no way! We don't use trash bags either!


 We do have people who pick through the trash, but it isn't really a problem. They are looking for soda and beer bottles/cans to get the nickel deposit. There are also the guys with the pickups who are seeking scrap metal to recycle. On the days when each quadrant is allowed to set out large items, we see those guys drive by. It doesn't matter to us or to the city because the materials get recycled one way or another. 

Neither group makes a mess. Instead, they seek to make friends with people who would be willing to save their cans, bottles or scrap metal for them. We know one of these guys and call him a couple of times per year to haul some away for us. He's hauled away 2 hot water tanks, an old bath tub and lots of odds and ends. I currently have a broken exercise machine that a tenant left on the back porch of one of our rentals.

The only time that we've had a mess made of our trash is when animals get to it. Dogs, squirrels and crows are the worst offenders!

Property owners are held liable for anything that goes wrong in my area. The city may not know who the tenants are, but they surely know who to send the property tax bill to! We don't renew leases for tenants who create too much drama for us. 

There are a few DPW employees who act as inspectors. They drive around in pickup trucks. They generally aren't looking for recycling bin issues. Instead they are looking for the gross offenses that I mentioned before: washing machines, sofas, old tires, boxes of miscellaneous junk, etc...If something isn't fit for the bin, it is just left in the bin. Compostable stuff (leaves, branches,grass, etc...) is collected on the same quadrant/monthly schedule as washing machines, sofas, etc...)


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

> I agree, but it is a problem. This is why we can't have garbage police. There's no way we can make it inaccessible to them. The cans have to be on the street, the trucks start coming by around 6am...i will have been at work for hours by the time the cans are done. I know it sounds kinda weird, but the pickers will sit near houses that haven't put their trash out yet, just waiting. If you stand by the cans, they won't go near them, but who wants to to that? The city and county are on the side of the pickers, because, well, just because!


If the situation gets bad enough there are ways to make it inaccessible to tamperers but it would mean the entire city would want to clean up its act. It would need to set up entirely different tamper-proof receptacles for recyclables for each neighbourhood and different systems of pick up. It would also mean the city setting up many community recycling centers close by enough to make it convenient for people to deliver their recyclables if they choose not to use community recycling bins. That will of course cost the city and the citizens more money to pay for it at the outset, and it will require all citizens to take more personal responsibility for everything they're disposing of. 

However, in the long run it would pay for itself, it would resolve a number of social, environmental and resource problems as well as creating a lot more employment for more people. From the sounds of things I think such evolution is still a long time coming in your city because of social problems, but I think eventually it will get to the point where the city will have no choice but to develop better systems the way other cities and countries have been developing better systems.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Paumon said:


> If the situation gets bad enough there are ways to make it inaccessible to tamperers but it would mean the entire city would want to clean up its act. It would need to set up entirely different tamper-proof receptacles for recyclables for each neighbourhood and different systems of pick up. It would also mean the city setting up many community recycling centers close by enough to make it convenient for people to deliver their recyclables if they choose not to use community recycling bins. That will of course cost the city and the citizens more money to pay for it at the outset, and it will require all citizens to take more personal responsibility for everything they're disposing of.
> 
> However, in the long run it would pay for itself, it would resolve a number of social, environmental and resource problems as well as creating a lot more employment for more people. From the sounds of things I think such evolution is still a long time coming in your city because of social problems, but I think eventually it will get to the point where the city will have no choice but to develop better systems the way other cities and countries have been developing better systems.


I absolutely agree, BUT, the politicians that get elected have no desire to do anything the people want done because so much is spent on welfare and entitlement programs that there's none left over to fix the streets, water mains, power infrastructure, police, fire, etc... Complaints just fall on deaf ears. You can talk till your blue, they still do nothing. They don't even campaign anymore, its just a given they'll be elected. Someday, maybe we'll get some with backbone and we'll start getting more done, i won't hold my breath tho! I just wish the politicians would get out of the way and let us do what needs to be done!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

TheMartianChick said:


> We do have people who pick through the trash, but it isn't really a problem. They are looking for soda and beer bottles/cans to get the nickel deposit. There are also the guys with the pickups who are seeking scrap metal to recycle. On the days when each quadrant is allowed to set out large items, we see those guys drive by. It doesn't matter to us or to the city because the materials get recycled one way or another.
> 
> Neither group makes a mess. Instead, they seek to make friends with people who would be willing to save their cans, bottles or scrap metal for them. We know one of these guys and call him a couple of times per year to haul some away for us. He's hauled away 2 hot water tanks, an old bath tub and lots of odds and ends. I currently have a broken exercise machine that a tenant left on the back porch of one of our rentals.
> 
> ...


We can't pick and choose who can rent whatever to, the law says we can't discriminate, even with bad referrals! They'll sue you for some form of discrimination. It's nut's! They say it has to do with rent control, yeah right. 

Our trash contractor will come out and remove bulky items, but, only 3 per year per household. That's 3 items!! Of course we can always take anything to the dump, you just have to pay their fee. I don't mind folks picking cans and plastic, i just don't like multiples pushing their stolen shopping carts around the neighborhood at 4am, hoping they'll find something! And if they start policing our trash, i dont/ wont be held accountable for something i have very little control over. It is also considered stealing from the city because the city doesn't make a penny if someone else takes the recyclables.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> We can't pick and choose who can rent whatever to, the law says we can't discriminate, even with bad referrals! They'll sue you for some form of discrimination. It's nut's! They say it has to do with rent control, yeah right.


We also have anti-discrimination legislation on the books. We don't discriminate in our rental practices. However, a *difficult* tenant who signs a 2 year lease will receive an eviction notice at the end of their term. Everyone will have fulfilled all aspects of the legal agreement, as it was laid out. Truthfully, most of my tenants will do something that is against the terms of the lease. It doesn't have to be a big infraction, but we document it anyway. Later, if we find that we need to evict prior to the end of the lease (which is rare) we already have grounds.

We find that it is far easier to be discerning about who we rent to, than it is to rent to whomever shows up first. Most of our properties are whole houses, so a lot of people apply for them. When people call to inquire about a rental, there is a voicemail that describes the property and rent payment in detail. At the end, it states how to apply and that there may be a credit report pulled. It also states that we have a zero tolerance policy for illegal activity in and around our properties. There are many times when a caller hangs up at that point. Usually, the folks who leave a message are fairly decent. 

The process seems to work. We have very low turnover. In fact, I only have one vacancy right now and it is a 1 bdrm apt. Of all of the units that we own, it is the most difficult one to rent because it is next door to us and has a no smoking policy for the health/safety of the other tenant. It would be hard for someone to sue us for discrimination because we currently rent to a diverse group of tenants. Martians are probably the only under-represented group!


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