# Why So Many Hungry People?



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Didn't want to hijack food drive thread.

Can someone explain to me why there are so many hungry people when there are so many government programs to provide assistance? How much of the demand is real need vs poor choices? In other words, is buying food a low priority because they know there are places they can get free food, and use their money for things like cell phone bills and car payments?

I certainly understand the family where the primary bread winner is suddenly out of work, but I imagine that's the exception. Are many of the food bank patrons regulars? Why?

I am sincere in trying to understand why there is a hunger problem in US, so don't read anything else into my question.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Years of experiance at a food pantry have taught me nearly everyone there should be. 

But they are not what you expect.
Keep in mind pantries seldom provide enough food for the people they serve to live on it's a supplement. 

One group is there for beans and rice keep the belly full food. 
Men tend to be the ones in that category since they think they should be able to provide for themselves society thinks they should be able to provide for themselves and they do their best and eventually wind up in the spot where shear hunger drives them there. 
There will be a few families where for some reason they don't qualify for food stamps and are desperate. 
There will be some there looking for more basic food because they're living situation makes the food they can use expensive. 
Examples of this would be the guy who lives in the shed and can only cook on a open fire has no refrigeration and nowhere to clean up cooking utensils , another common situation is a health problem that greatly restricts exactly which foods someone can eat. 

The next group are people who quite frugally spend their money on beans and rice potatoes and basic foods. But they would like something nice. They're looking for a birthday cake for a child or perhaps other sorts of food they wouldn't splurge their own money on that just make life a little nicer. 
These folks walk out with the quart of free range organic cream, ounce of Spanish Truffles or brand name Sausage like they won the lotto and it makes their lives special for a few days. 

The last group was the hardest for me to be happy for in my mind. They are the druggies and other desperate people of the city. They are looking for things like sticky buns and cupcakes that they can sell on the street for a dollar or two and get their next fix.
Are used to really resent these people getting this support. Until a older gentleman from one of the worst sections to town pointed it out to me that no I should be grateful. 
That bag of sticky buns cupcakes or such was one car, one house window ,one garage they didn't have to break into that night. 

I'm not sure if I've answered your question but I do hope this helps


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

The economy, the elderly who live on fixed incomes, young families with children living on minimum wage or slightly better, laid off people, sudden illness/injury, the reasons to go to a food bank are endless.

At some point in nearly everyone's life they have needed help of some type, there are some that need it more often. I'm not going to judge or begrudge people wanting food.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Look at crazy amounts they want for rent anymore. Wages havent gone up so money has to come from some other part of budget.


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## Pyrpup2016 (Sep 11, 2016)

Here in our small town, a huge fire just took out the employer of over 15% of the town. There surely will be needs for those families, even after they get on unemployment, which only pays 2/3 of what they were making. Salaries were only $9 - $10 per hour. I'm donating my extra eggs to the local Food Share.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

My sister's husband used drugs and he spent too much of the household income. My pregnant sister needed to eat. She eventually divorced him.

The neighbor man walked out on his wife and 3 kids on payday, taking his paycheck with him, and there was zero money in the bank. He had always told her to not work, so she didn't have a job. And there was a recession on so she couldn't just go out and get a job the next day. She eventually got set up with food stamps and such but the key word is "eventually". She and the kids needed to eat until she got squared away.

Lastly, a boy scout in my son's troop had parents who sometimes visited the food pantry. DH said they had a problem with wisely spending money. I was glad that the food pantry was there for them: I liked the boy and he did not deserve to go hungry because his parents cannot do math.

Now my parents were depression babies, and I have always hated throwing away food. So I don't: in a good gardening year I give away the excess, sometimes to neighbors and sometimes to the food pantry.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

We donate to our local food bank because there are so many hungry people who are really struggling just to pay for basics - not cell phones etc. Incomes in Canada have risen more than in the US but still not kept up with inflation and capitalist and political greed. Many elderly people live way below the poverty line. Food banks etc are not intended to supply people with all the food they need. In most cases the money they have will only stretch for a few weeks of the month and then they go hungry for a week or 10 days without assistance.


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

I wish food banks would offer seeds, so a few of these could plant a garden to help themselves out and fell better about themselves. Not everyone would be able to but some could.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Irish Pixie said:


> The economy, the elderly who live on fixed incomes, young families with children living on minimum wage or slightly better, laid off people, sudden illness/injury, the reasons to go to a food bank are endless.
> 
> At some point in nearly everyone's life they have needed help of some type, there are some that need it more often. I'm not going to judge or begrudge people wanting food.


But aren't all of these temporary? Wouldn't they all qualify for food stamps?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Pyrpup2016 said:


> Here in our small town, a huge fire just took out the employer of over 15% of the town. There surely will be needs for those families, even after they get on unemployment, which only pays 2/3 of what they were making. Salaries were only $9 - $10 per hour. I'm donating my extra eggs to the local Food Share.


This example I can understand. There is a community disaster and the community comes together to help out those in need.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> Years of experiance at a food pantry have taught me nearly everyone there should be.
> 
> But they are not what you expect.
> Keep in mind pantries seldom provide enough food for the people they serve to live on it's a supplement.
> ...


What would you say the percent of repeaters as opposed to new people is on a monthly basis?

My brain says the need should be temporary but my gut says it's ongoing.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

MoonRiver said:


> But aren't all of these temporary? Wouldn't they all qualify for food stamps?


Yes.

However, to get food stamps you must fist make a call and make an appointment to talk to a social worker, fill out paperwork, have the paperwork processed, and then they mail you a card. This takes time, and it is hard on people who are hungry NOW!

My neighbor, who's husband left her broke and with 3 kids to feed, called the food bank on a Monday and had her appointment at the food bank on Wednesday. The lady asked her how many she was feeding, and then gave her 3/4 of a box of ramen noodles and another half box of canned vegetables and beans. Then she said to come back next Wednesday.

Time for my neighbor to collect food stamps: about 10 days. Time to collect food bank food: 2 days.

And, I hate to say it, but there is a never ending source of wage earners who will leave but not provide for their kids. Women leave as well as men. It seems to be an unpleasant attribute of human nature. My neighbor went to the food bank just a few times but when she quit going, I am sure there were other families who became in need.

Also, food prices go up all of the time, and food stamps are not generous. Therefore, many people fill up on cheap carbs. So, instead of grocers throwing out expired cans of veggies which will clog up the landfills, they donate them to the food bank BEFORE they expire. This keeps the cans out of the landfill and gives poor folk a more balanced diet. Since the stores also get a tax break, it is good for the stores, good for the landfills, and good for the poor folk.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

MoonRiver said:


> But aren't all of these temporary? Wouldn't they all qualify for food stamps?


Terri explained one situation quite well, and I agree.

Some could be temporary, some could (and probably do) qualify for food stamps. I don't understand your concern? 

Donation to food banks is absolutely and completely voluntary.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

People on SNAPS here in Arizona can get seeds and fertilizer etc for making their own garden.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Maybe we just need a better name for the problem than "hunger". Which conjures up mental images of the toothpick arms, bloated bellies of true, slow starvation. Hardly anybody in the US is in any real danger of actually starving to death. We don't see rickets in the poor or other symptoms of malnutrition/nutrient deficiencies like in years past. 

However for people, especially growing children, to eat a balanced and healthy diet, and not have to suffer the embarrassment of digging in restaurant dumpsters or other such "foraging", some people need food given to them. Maybe an unexpected expense left them with no money for groceries this week; or maybe it's a more long term problem. We have plenty of food and a wide variety of food available in this country, it is relatively cheap, it should make you feel good to share your own good fortune and help another, etc.

I am all for food banks and private sector assistance, but feel our government programs have gotten out of hand.


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## dsmythe (Apr 21, 2013)

Americanstand, You hit the nail on the head.
At our Food Bank you can come every 60 days, we have a data base on our computer and they are tracked. We do have some people who try to "beat the system". We have a local shelter both for men and ladies and children, they are not at the same location. They pretty much stay full. There are people who do indeed stay for a while and move on as they become independent again. Our church has a service to help people find jobs and move into or back into the public sector. Our local Goodwill is an awesome resource for unemployed in our area.
We have people who come to our Soup Kitchen who we see every time we are open. Some are disabled, some are families who I assume are trying to take a bite out of their own food budget. We have some people who could not hold down a "regular" job for mental health issues.
We have a lot of elderly people who come because their Medication is costly and they see us as a supplement to the house hold income. We do not turn Anyone away.
We have a retired Chiropractor who eats with us every time the doors are open, he is "different" to put it mildly (I won't go into details). We have people who do not eat with us but come and get a take-out plate for family members who can not travel. We know we are taken advantage of a lot but we believe we can and do make a difference also. We have a young man, Stephen, who has had a stroke. He has had to learn to walk again. We are very near a public housing neighborhood in which he lives. He walks the short distance to keep his family of 4 fed. That is why we do it. For the Stephens in our lives and communities.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

dsmythe said:


> Americanstand, You hit the nail on the head.
> At our Food Bank you can come every 60 days, we have a data base on our computer and they are tracked. We do have some people who try to "beat the system". We have a local shelter both for men and ladies and children, they are not at the same location. They pretty much stay full. There are people who do indeed stay for a while and move on as they become independent again. Our church has a service to help people find jobs and move into or back into the public sector. Our local Goodwill is an awesome resource for unemployed in our area.
> We have people who come to our Soup Kitchen who we see every time we are open. Some are disabled, some are families who I assume are trying to take a bite out of their own food budget. We have some people who could not hold down a "regular" job for mental health issues.
> We have a lot of elderly people who come because their Medication is costly and they see us as a supplement to the house hold income. We do not turn Anyone away.
> We have a retired Chiropractor who eats with us every time the doors are open, he is "different" to put it mildly (I won't go into details). We have people who do not eat with us but come and get a take-out plate for family members who can not travel. We know we are taken advantage of a lot but we believe we can and do make a difference also. We have a young man, Stephen, who has had a stroke. He has had to learn to walk again. We are very near a public housing neighborhood in which he lives. He walks the short distance to keep his family of 4 fed. That is why we do it. For the Stephens in our lives and communities.


Thanks


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Food insecurity works well to explain the food situation in the US.

Food insecurity—the condition assessed in the food security survey and represented in USDA food security reports—is a household-level economic and social condition of limited or uncertain access to adequate food.

From: https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/foo...y-in-the-us/definitions-of-food-security.aspx


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

We have so many people living on the edge, one major or not so major expense and they will never catch up, much less be able to feed themselves. There is one family here one of their children has some ongoing medical issues. One of the parents had to stop working to care for the child that was devastating plus the medical costs. They will never catch up but the community helps as much as possible rides to the doctor or hospital and the local food bank is what keeps them fed. Whenever anyone makes a trip to shop they are called to see if they need anything meds pickup or food. Usually when we do that we try to pay for all of their needs.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

All I know that I had to triple bag the amount of goods I am donating tomorrow, and I am one that can go and get food at the food pantries. I do not, I Donate to them.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Thank you for the reminder. I forgot to put my bag out. Off to do that now. 

I will never begrudge people the support of food banks or food stamps. I know what it is to be so broke that you're living on popcorn and Jell-O for a week and a half because you had an unexpected expense and you have to choose between rent & electricity or food and the paycheck isn't due for another 2 weeks. And I know what it's like, when the popcorn and Jell-O run out, to dig through people's garbage looking for something to eat. Unless you've lived it, you can't imagine the humiliation involved in that. So, if I can spare someone that humiliation by supporting food banks, I will.


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## MoBookworm1957 (Aug 24, 2015)

haley1 said:


> I wish food banks would offer seeds, so a few of these could plant a garden to help themselves out and fell better about themselves. Not everyone would be able to but some could.


Actually if you get food stamps, you can buy vegetable seeds with them.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I guess what surprises me is the scope of the problem. With all the government programs, church programs, Meals on Wheels, food banks, etc, I have trouble understanding why are there still so many hungry people?

The Ad Council keeps running an ad that says "Nearly 13 million children struggle with hunger in the United States". US Hunger Relief states "13 million children and 5 million seniors face hunger". They don't say how often, so the numbers aren't very meaningful.

When I was a social worker many years ago, I saw 3 general categories of people who needed food assistance beyond food stamps. 1) True emergency, 2) poor budgeting, and 3) free loaders. Of course there are always people who are on a limited income, but government programs should largely address that problem.

Here's where my question comes from. Why is the government so ineffective at running a food assistance program, that even with massive community support programs, a country as rich as US still has millions suffering hunger?

Whenever I see the Wounded Warrior ads, I wonder why the government isn't delivering the services to veterans they are legally required to deliver? Why do we have to have a group like Wounded Warriors? Why do we have to have food banks? (I'm just using Wounded Warriors as a comparison to food banks).

I'm just having trouble understanding why a relatively simple problem can't be successfully addressed.


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## dsmythe (Apr 21, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> I guess what surprises me is the scope of the problem. With all the government programs, church programs, Meals on Wheels, food banks, etc, I have trouble understanding why are there still so many hungry people?
> 
> The Ad Council keeps running an ad that says "Nearly 13 million children struggle with hunger in the United States". US Hunger Relief states "13 million children and 5 million seniors face hunger". They don't say how often, so the numbers aren't very meaningful.
> 
> ...


I would like to weigh in on this question but I am sure I can not answer it completely.
I worked for the government while I was in college at Coastal Plains Exp. Sta. I worked as a herdsman in the Beef Cattle Dept. in Tifton, Georgia.
We weighed every cow on the farm every 28 days. To do this we "employed" 3 horses to assist us. We had 9 saddles. This is just to illustrate what I think the problem IS. We were budgeted monies each year, if we did not use ALL of our money we had to return it back to the general fund and our budget was cut the next year. We Never returned a DIME! We bought saddles,(not me but our Head Researchers) Tractors, Equipment, and anything we wanted/needed for the coming year.
How many of our elected officials do we have who are supposed to be handling the problems that they propose to handle actually do what They say they are doing? I have friends who are vets who cannot get an appointment in a timely manner, we have all heard horror stories about the problems in the V. A. not to pick on the VA but just to prove my point.
I think a lot of people who work in our government are more concerned about keeping their job than solving any problems that they are there to solve. I don't think this is true in the lower levels but is more as people climb the ladder.
I think we have the resources At Home (locally) to actually solve ANY problem that is present. I am not only thinking about just Church Based programs but secular based programs as well. We actually have a United Way office in our area that uses over 93% of the money in the community and not for administrative costs. If we could divert the monies back into the local communities we would save a lot and help more people.
I guess this is just my RANT but there is a Black Hole in Washington, any monies that go there seems to be doomed.
The simple food drive is a great example, there will be a large amount of food donated today and it will all come from "We The People"
The Free Loaders that you mention also add to the problem IMHO.
This discussion could go on for a while so I will hush......for now. This is something that is really close to my heart.
Thank you for your cyber-space EAR. Dsmythe


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## April Angnos (May 13, 2017)

I am glad that food banks are available. Food stamps, in my area the EBT card, is something that looks like anyone can get as long as one goes with the prescribed gvmt program. Not everyone is willing to do that. Unfortunately I see way too many people with the EBT card that are driving a car that is only a few years old, talking on a iPhone and carrying a Coach purse. It actually makes me sick even though I try extremely hard to let it go. Here we have EBT food and EBT cash. Oh and I forgot the new OTC card. A few stories: Young engaged couple that I see occasionally at my workplace have a baby. I see the man several months later and ask if they had gotten married. He replied, " No, she likes getting her nails done and her cell phone. If we get married she will lose her state assistance. " 
The OTC card gives individuals $40 to $80 a month to spend on OTC items. So we have a man who comes to my workplace every month and buys a blood pressure monitor to send over to Russia! 
Food banks fill a need right away. I think those going there are really in need now.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I will say again. As some folks go off assistance others go onto assistance. 

As for wounded warrior, I have no idea why the government does a terrible job giving medical care to veterans.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

MoonRiver said:


> What would you say the percent of repeaters as opposed to new people is on a monthly basis?
> 
> My brain says the need should be temporary but my gut says it's ongoing.


 Just gut instinct is about a third always there
If you are disabled and don't get enough help your situation seldom gets better. 
Another third come and go as their family situation fluctuates poor jobs changing hours etc. losing a job. 
And perhaps a third of them show up once or twice and you never see them again.


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## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

as a single person on SSDI for a variety of chronic (and terminal) illnesses, I can tell you just how limited my income is. In FL, I get $16/month in food stamps. With the very same income when I lived in CT...I received$160. HUGE difference state to state. I use the food banks only when I absolutely have to. I do grow what I can within my means, as long as nothing wipes out my planting, and I share what I can with others around me. No one in the tribe goes hungry when we can manage it. I also have a butt ton of food allergies, so my cash budget for food is wonky. I taught myself several years back how to cook basics (never learned), and work to keep it simple with the veg and protein, make my own bread and soups, eat every leftover, and every bit of inedible goes in the composter for the garden. hope that helps. (no flaming, please, I work hard to stay living independently and within my means.) Peace...


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Terri said:


> As for wounded warrior, I have no idea why the government does a terrible job giving medical care to veterans.


Lol I think the premise is wrong. As long as you coach it in terms of even just a vet let alone a wounded one nothing can be denied or even questioned leave me from what I have seen in my personal experience wounded veterans get everything they are entitled to and more. 

In my small dry very religious community there is a wounded veteran with plans to open a strip joint. 
He knows with that community cannot deny him a liquor license certainly not when billed as a club for veterans social relief. 
Once established as a veterans club ,not the VFW by the way ,members of the town Council have already told him that they will not be able to close it down for becoming a strip club after all it's for the veterans and he is a wounded veteran.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

It is possible that things have improved. When I was in nursing 20+ years ago the VA was notorious for giving bad care.


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## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

now this is great. this link just came in my email for anyone who either has surplus or needs to eat:
http://www.ripenear.me
there's nothing close to me right now. great resource if it takes off!!


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

We donated a small bag of food items in the postal drive yesterday. We will also donate mo. to the local food bank and to the military personal products drive. Since I do the shopping and taking in of the items they will be low salt, low sugar and products both my husband and I consider healthy, sensible products.

When thinking about why so many folks are hungry no one mentioned that our society (School, home and church) does not have the kids learn about saving for a rainy day. The Little Red Hen teaches all of us something...

If the government is always there to supply our needs when they/it can no longer afford to so there will loud weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and starvation. Example Venezuela... I have lived on cornbread and grape jelly and eggs for several weeks as a young person. It was not a negative experience and it taught me to figure out how to improve my income ability and budget what little money I was making at the time. The was no money for cigarettes and alcohol in the paycheck.

With all the situations cited in this thread none of the people needing assistance sounded like they were getting food/$$$ support from their OWN families. Why not? Years ago if someone in a family was hungry a family member who was in better circumstances would share canned goods or food from the garden. Folks should be reminded of this concept again. A little guilty persuasion is sometimes an effective catalyst for change. 

I personally would share my supper with a child, a disabled person, a pregnant mom or an elderly person. I would not do so with a healthy individual who chooses to stay incapacitated by alcohol, drugs or laziness. To do so would only encourage more to follow his/her example...


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## chaossmurf (Jan 6, 2017)

well ive actually been so down on my luck at one point I had to go to the food pantries and more than one --ow and as a single white male my 11 dollars of food stamps was an insult 75 cent ramen noodles doesn't even go far
I happened to have an OLD station wagon at the time and lived in a 55 + park that outta like 300 trailers there was maybe 50 cars and drivers --I was outta work and actually got gas money driving carloads of little old ladies and gents to the diferent food pantries around town to let them get bags of donations ---now I didn't do this for a profit just to keep the tank topped off & help my neighbors out ---a truly great friend of mine owned a hardware store & when he seen me out one day he offered me to come empty out all them seeds off his shelves that wre starting to age --as he put it  since most of the peple there had grown things in the past it was a HUGE help and withing weeks the park looked like a farm that started growing traveltrailers 
it went from a buncha scragely looking elderly people to a more rounded looking group in a years time  and we started bringing veggies too the same places when we visited them for rice and other nonparishables --and instead of them same people feeling bad and sorry for themselves they started being happy to TAKE veggies to the food pantries and return with flour and rice and other things and it was probally the happiest time of my life living there & watching all them sick old people help each other out & look after each other
guess I got off trak --so heres my point ---if them same groups would offer some seeds alongside the free food ---maybe the cycle would reverse or at the very least become a swapping situation instead of a one way flow---although id suggest a grab a pinch of seeds approach -as opposed to a full bag of one seed type --who needs 300 tomatoe seeds 
on a sidenote --the farmstore/feedstore near me actualy sells seeds by the gram --as well as prepackaged ones too  -- the by the gram ones are locally sourced organic-ish ones ---non-certified --but organic


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

I have heard some libraries offer seeds also to people that go there. 

Most gardeners I know always have more seeds than what they intend to plant and are happy to share. Talking with our daughter today she mentioned she and our son in law bought some black currant cordial. By next year, God willing, I'll have 3 or 4 currants started from our consort black currant to share with them.

I agree that it is a good mindset to encourage a "give and take attitude". It is the basic, life supporting dynamics in most cultures. Whether it is a husband or wife, children or parents, your next door neighbors or employees and bosses a more stable, enduring relationship is developed. I think it is just an old fashioned, basic truth that has fallen out of favor, unfortunately...


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

chaossmurf said:


> well ive actually been so down on my luck at one point I had to go to the food pantries and more than one --ow and as a single white male my 11 dollars of food stamps was an insult 75 cent ramen noodles doesn't even go far
> I happened to have an OLD station wagon at the time and lived in a 55 + park that outta like 300 trailers there was maybe 50 cars and drivers --I was outta work and actually got gas money driving carloads of little old ladies and gents to the diferent food pantries around town to let them get bags of donations ---now I didn't do this for a profit just to keep the tank topped off & help my neighbors out ---a truly great friend of mine owned a hardware store & when he seen me out one day he offered me to come empty out all them seeds off his shelves that wre starting to age --as he put it  since most of the peple there had grown things in the past it was a HUGE help and withing weeks the park looked like a farm that started growing traveltrailers
> it went from a buncha scragely looking elderly people to a more rounded looking group in a years time  and we started bringing veggies too the same places when we visited them for rice and other nonparishables --and instead of them same people feeling bad and sorry for themselves they started being happy to TAKE veggies to the food pantries and return with flour and rice and other things and it was probally the happiest time of my life living there & watching all them sick old people help each other out & look after each other
> guess I got off trak --so heres my point ---if them same groups would offer some seeds alongside the free food ---maybe the cycle would reverse or at the very least become a swapping situation instead of a one way flow---although id suggest a grab a pinch of seeds approach -as opposed to a full bag of one seed type --who needs 300 tomatoe seeds
> on a sidenote --the farmstore/feedstore near me actualy sells seeds by the gram --as well as prepackaged ones too  -- the by the gram ones are locally sourced organic-ish ones ---non-certified --but organic


This reminds me so much of my trailer park living experience!!

We moved into this place.... poorer than dirt, hungry, he was disabled and not able to work until he had surgery. The trailer was so thrashed the park gave it to us free to fix up. I remember robbing a blackbird's nest for the eggs one time I was so hungry, and he told me OK that is it, we're getting some chickens!
We set the humble handmade coop in the front yard, moved it around and ripped apart the lawn where the chickens had been before for a vegetable garden. The neighbors were so fascinated they started bringing their leftover food to toss in the chicken run, free chickie food!! The chickens totally desecrated the lawn but that was OK, we grew great vegetables in the bald patches. People started to talk to us more, drive by slow to look at the front yard garden...we gave some extra birds I hatched to the neighbor kids across the street. Two other neighbors ended up getting chickens also and one person stared to (and still does) raise rabbits in that trailer park. I incubated eggs and sold the chicks at a local swap, and taught one of my neighbors at the trailerpark to do the same.

After he had his surgery and was able to go back to work we ended up moving...but not before annoying the heck out of the park's management with our poultry LOL...!!
last I looked, there were still three front yards torn up in that park with vegetable garden front yards instead of lawn or landscaping. Hungry enough to steal wild bird eggs turned into a healthy, prosperous extra veggies for the neighbors situation and in the process we unwittingly made a huge impact on so many other lives. Living at its finest.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

There was a point in my life where we had $14.83 to spend on food that would last us until our next paycheck 7 days after. We spent a lot of time in the store putting one thing in the cart and another thing back that day.

Having been on both ends of poverty and prosperity I can relate without hopefully offending anyone.
It is ironic that the United States has so much obesity among its citizens that it seems unbelievable that anyone is going hungry, yet many are. Yet when you compare conditions today to the early 1930s, there is a stark difference, and between hunger and starvation.
The misconception with government programs are that they aren't designed to fix anything; they are short term remedies without a solution ie a man breaks his leg and the Dr tells him to come in every week for a pain killer without ever setting of mending the leg. EBT/SNAP does nothing to assist in getting off of the programs, in fact by its nature it encourages dependence. Many folks have no idea how to grow food, how to stretch a meal, or even how to maximize nutrition for their dollar. A man living a sheltered life may not bother using gov money for seeds since he may have no idea or a yard to grow food. Most of the members here are like minded though some poor and others not. But the tag "Homesteading" has always seemed more a fad term or a marketing ploy; what many true homesteaders are after is self sufficiency, but that phrase doesn't sell. And while being self sufficient enables many of us to prepare and make it thru those tough times, we still need a network no matter how small, to fall back on. That network of support, friends, family, churches, charities, no longer exists the way it used to, and those are the entities that knew when to help someone who was down, and when to let go when they were back up.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I have never known real hunger in my life - only that which has been self inflicted through dieting. We have been broke with not enough money left over to buy food for the entire month after paying our bills. We always paid our bills first. We never had to use a food bank but we would have if in dire straights. We did sell things when we needed to and I was able to pawn some jewelry when necessary - made me feel very odd and a bit naughty going in to the shop but the shop owner was very nice. 

We always made sure that we had oatmeal, pasta, rice and beans that we set aside for the last week of the month and often ate these staples for a week. Boring but not suffering. We were also fortunate to live in a place where we could grow veggies and had many fruit trees and we canned and dried enough to last us until the next harvest or ripening. But when you get into unexpected trouble a pack of seeds will not do you any good for many, many weeks and most of those living in big cities certainly do not have the advantage of a place to grow food.

All the food banks that we have supported over the years do keep records of people and several of them would not allow people to come more than once a month. I do know that there are people who take advantage of food banks but I would rather 10 people who spent their money foolishly get a bag of groceries than one person be denied. Most food banks do know who the people in real need are and this is who they seek to serve. For most people I have known it is a very humbling if not humiliating experience having to ask for help and they certainly try to change their lives so that they can be self-sufficient. A stable and prospering life can change with one circumstance and no one is immune.


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

You are right in saying that one circumstance can change a stable life on a dime. You were also smart to realize that at the end of the month it was wise to have a stockpile of inexpensive, filling foods. For us we still keep potatoes, eggs and tea on hand.

The problem is that with the notion that the 10 people getting a bag of groceries that really don't deserve it that it encourages more to do the same. As days go by there may not be funds to provide food to the one person who genuinely deserves it.

Cities are doing more to open up land for gardening for its inhabitants. Milw. WI is an example.

If a lot of the folks were slow/humbled to take advantage of a food bank then would most banks have a one month limit on utilizing their services?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

The idea that food stamps/snap is there to help feed the poor is a misconception , their real purpose is a subsidy to employers.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> But aren't all of these temporary? Wouldn't they all qualify for food stamps?


Not necessarily


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

In our little town there are two sisters, aged 9 and 11, who don't eat when school is out. They frequently visit the postoffice because the post mistress has a candy dish and for years that is all they had to eat all day. That was before several of us found out that their mother is on drugs, doesn't get up til 2-3 in the afternoon, has the electric shut off on a regular basis, etc etc. This is not the kids' fault so we make sure they get to eat.

It breaks my heart and I don't even like children that much.


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## April Angnos (May 13, 2017)

light rain said:


> We donated a small bag of food items in the postal drive yesterday. We will also donate mo. to the local food bank and to the military personal products drive. Since I do the shopping and taking in of the items they will be low salt, low sugar and products both my husband and I consider healthy, sensible products.
> 
> When thinking about why so many folks are hungry no one mentioned that our society (School, home and church) does not have the kids learn about saving for a rainy day. The Little Red Hen teaches all of us something...
> 
> ...


I totally agree that family needs to help family. Our society has been so desensitized to the needs of those closest to us - we would rather try to help the world rather than start with those near us. Now I don't mean to support to the point of enabling or supporting those who can give up there vices to eat. But let's get real and start near us.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I noticed a lot of the more desperate people at the food pantry did not seem to have much or any family. 
Weirdly enough I noticed that the patrons at the pantry do kind of become family perhaps community would be a better word


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

April I agree with what you said. Also I would like to add that that the lack of concern begins with the family. It begins when parents and other older family members do not stress the importance of respect for the elders and also respect for every other age group in the family and in the community.

Today so many caregivers pass off the responsibility of teaching young in academics and in morals and the kids just sort of absorb whatever philosophies that surround them. Imprinting in the animal world...

Also with the designation of drug addiction, alcoholism and other less life ensuring decisions we fail to say to the addict Mom or Dad or Grandma "you are doing wrong". Yes, I/anyone may be genetically predisposed to drink like a fish but that does not remove my/anyone's responsibility to be an adequate caregiver to the children or disabled in the family. So often today when we are confronted with drugs, alcoholism or other destructive behavior the accepted approach is to say "the person is sick and not responsible for their actions". That thought process has its conception when a parent has a child that does something inappropriate and the parent blames THEIR kid's bad behavior on their peers. Nope, that child had free will to make their own decision. And if the kid is running with the wrong crowd where were the parents in the over seeing section?

Many people are lonely and isolated today. Some of it is due to our changing world but a lot of it is self-induced. If folks want to give as well as receive that promotes a healthy relationship. 

Those two little hungry kids in Dutchie's post might have benefited from doing some chores before they were fed a healthy meal. It would have taught them this "give and take" concept. But over thirty years ago when I worked at an apt. project I went out and bought bread and peanut butter for two little ones who were picking morning glories to eat. I also called social services and was in fear of loosing my job. No, I didn't ask them to do any chores but if it was an ongoing situation I would have been wise to do so... except for liability issues. Both me and the co. that employed me...


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Seems to me that a lot of the poor and unemployed, on welfare programs, etc. are obese rather than under fed?
I just don't see malnourished people in my neck of the woods.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Do you go to the places you would see them?
If the parents put their own eating desires ahead of the children it takes a lot of food before it trickles down from the parents to the malnourished kids.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Fishindude said:


> Seems to me that a lot of the poor and unemployed, on welfare programs, etc. are obese rather than under fed?
> I just don't see malnourished people in my neck of the woods.


I've read a lot about the obese and starving phenomenon. Without looking up links and stuff, it seems to be from eating foods that have little nutritional value, so you're still hungry after filling up. Without a kitchen or electricity you can't really do very much cooking.  Cold soup really don't cut it, along with most canned food. So, folks buy what they can eat, are still hungry, and buy some more. They get fat, and at the same time their bodies weaken because of the lack of nutrition. Not to mention all the chemicals that would be in the sort of foods that need neither refrigeration nor cooking.


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## TRAILRIDER (Apr 16, 2007)

wow! So many interesting and enlightening replies to this thread. I have often wondered the same thing. I have lived on next to nothing and never been "hungry".....but I have to remember something...1. I have learned how to make do and manage money. 2. I have transportation to get to the bread outlet or an Aldis or discount store. It doesn't have to be in walking distance or on a bus route. 3. I can cook from scratch and have made it a point to learn how. 4. I had parents that new these things and taught me. I know that not everyone is in the same position as me.
And of course there are and always will be people who take advantage. Like spending their money on beer and cigs when they need to buckle down and buy food.....but like someone said, it would be a shame to have some child go hungry because their parents are irresponsible.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Clem said:


> I've read a lot about the obese and starving phenomenon. Without looking up links and stuff, it seems to be from eating foods that have little nutritional value, so you're still hungry after filling up. Without a kitchen or electricity you can't really do very much cooking. Cold soup really don't cut it, along with most canned food. So, folks buy what they can eat, are still hungry, and buy some more. They get fat, and at the same time their bodies weaken because of the lack of nutrition. Not to mention all the chemicals that would be in the sort of foods that need neither refrigeration nor cooking.


We covered this in nursing school, and you are pretty much correct. When we have a very obese patient we are taught that they may be malnourished because of lack of vitamins, minerals, or protein.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Interesting.
I'd like to see SNAP cards have tighter restrictions on what can be purchased to help out with this issue. Some mandatory educational training on; cooking, shopping, gardening, food preservation, etc. wouldn't be a bad idea either.


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Most people have access to tv in the USA. Ever noticed that the foods advertised are seldom just vegetables, fruit or low fat protein? No, it has to be fatted and salted up to justify the increased price and profit. 

Also when patients go in to a clinic or docter's office many times the nurse taking their vitals is more than 30 lbs. over weight sometimes more than 80 lbs. overweight. In that situation lack of money or medical knowledge should not be a factor.

A lot of the situations I and the rest of humanity's well being rests on deciding to do what I/we want to do instead of doing what I/we know we should do. I am glad we have free will but it does not come without consequences...


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

In my area there is a food bank that takes care of elderly people. 
Some how my mom came on their list and they started bringing her canned and boxed food. My mom did not need it and told them so but they just kept coming. Every couple of weeks we would clean out her pantry and give the food to our church for distribution or to folks we knew were having a hard time.
Between government programs and private programs I don't think anyone in this Country should be hungry. If they are it is because of rare instances or lack of knowledge of whats available. Everyone has hard times and if we are aware of someone in need we always help out.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Don't worry folks - the unemployment rate is lower than it's been in decades. More companies are returning to America along with other countries to rebuild. That should get a lot of people out of the food lines. 

Thanks you, President Trump!


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## TRAILRIDER (Apr 16, 2007)

I see that too, light rain. Especially here in KY most healthcare workers are obese. And I was surprised to see the group of workers in scrubs standing outside the UK cancer center smoking. People do have free choice...but yes, it all comes with consequences.


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