# Air Rifles?



## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Does anyone here use an air rifle for hunting?

I see that Gamo has a 950 Fpm .22 AND A 1300 fPM .17 calibre out there.

I also saw some pump-up air rifles that used pressures like those in scuba tanks. Handy for squirrel and rabbit perhaps.

Ox


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

you need a good pellet gun even for small game the pellets are very light and don't carry that energy very far 

where I grew up the Sheridan was always the standard go to small game pellet gun with 5mm pellets decent sights and the ability to pump it up to 10 times , then again the Sheridan plant was 15 miles away but a 5mm pellet in the high 800s to 900 fps was enough for small game 

and with new seals they could be rebuilt , but then they sold to crossman , they are still good but with the spring guns maybe not as popular 

they do benefit from not jumping around like a spring gun


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

None of the advertised FPS are accurate. They shoot out .5 grains to get the high FPS (which will ruin a gun) when you need about 7.9 grains in a .177 or 16 gains from a .22 . I shoot a diana 34 which is advertised at 1000 FPS and in reality I get a consistent 864 FPS. That equates to 13.1 FPE at the muzzle and hold 6.1 FPE at 65 yards. It takes 6.0 FPE to kill a squirrel with a head shot.

I like shooting .177 but in reality the .22 will deliver more FPE downrange making it a better choice for small game hunting.
Gamo's are not well received in the airgun community.(Cheap plastic chinese junk) according to most adult air rifle enthusiasts.China is making some airguns that are being "tuned" here in the USA.For good straight talk on these guns contact Mike Melick at Flying Dragon air guns. He can be trusted and can put you into a good shooting gun for less than you'll spend on German made ones.

Wade


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

I guess I should add some other info. The crosman NP Trail seems to be well liked and it is american made from what I understand. Also if you are going to purchase a spring gun they are extremely hold sensitive. The accepted practice is the "artillery hold"because it is the easiest to repeat consistently.
I'll add a link to a big AG site. These guys are big time into air guns. Some a shooting $5000 scopes on 10 meter guns! You can find about any info on airguns from this site.Good luck with your pursuit!

Wade

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Wade; When you say "spring guns" do you include the so-called "inert gas technology" that is out there, where the spring compresses air to fire the shot? The claim is that the IGT system reduces the "jump around" that you mentioned.

Needless to say, I don't understand the IGT system; the gun is still a break-barrel gun and it has to have a spring somewhere.


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## fixitguy (Nov 2, 2010)

We live within the city limits. I can get by shooting a .22, or a bow. (My 2 neighbors have tree stands in there backyards) 
I picked up a 1300fps .177 caliber pellet gun for those pesky rabbits in the garden. It works well, I just wish I could load up a magazine of .177's. I have winged a few


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

I've not used one so can't really tell you for sure. If you go to the link and search old threads I'm sure you will find the info.These guys really know airguns!

Wade


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## Skandi (Oct 21, 2014)

I have always hunted with a .22 and a .177 spring air rifle both at 12ftlb or under (legal limit in the UK the .22 is slightly over I think as we had to replace the spring...) Both will take a rabbit at 40 yards but that's about the limit, .177 is my prefered choice, as it's better in wind and has less drop over the range. a multi shot is in my opinion a waste of time. if you're not good enough to drop it the first time you shouldn't be shooting it in the first place. 
A friend did shoot a roe deer while lamping, (unintentionaly, just saw eyes) but I would not use one to take a deer on perpous) they'll also take pigeons, rats and pheasnts. 
it is (in the UK) the only economical way to take game, with the price of shotgun ammo!

EDIT my first one at age 12 was a gammo, still works infact it is the .22 that I mentioned earlier, but you need small fingers, as the loading point pops up, and with the telle sight on there there's not much space to get the pellet in. My favourite make would be Weihrauch, beautiful weapons.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

I'd love to have a Weihrauch model 57 I think,with the pop-up breech and underlever. I noticed the "export" main spring in available through Chambers but the gun is not sold over here.If I could get a [email protected] joul gun and switch out the mainspring it should be about as good as it gets. Of course many don't like the breech as you described on your .22.

Wade


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

I have taken many, many rabbits and squirrels with a Crosman 860 powermaster in .177 caliber. It was good out to about 25 yards pumped 10 times.


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## moonwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

There are high caliber air rifles out there


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## arcticow (Oct 8, 2006)

Chuck, I have a Beeman convertible with .22 and .177 barrels, not real pricey, but at 25 or 30 yards, with the scope, I like it!


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

We have vacated a few groundhogs here with Crosman Fury. It's a break barrel .177 cal. Head shot...it's over...anything else is iffy.
Have a range set up out back with bullet trap for the pellets and .22 as they boys are advancing quiet quickly. The scopes on an air gun are different than a fire arm... the airguns will tear a regular scope up fast.
Have a TrailMaster NP (Nitro Pistol). It's fun, but the factory sights are horrible...thinking about a red dot for it.

Matt


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

I thought Crosman and Benjamin were different companies. Has one bought the other?
I see that both are on the Crosman site now.

I've known for a long time that the airguns will destroy a scope designed for firearms; I wonder why?
Ox


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Spring guns have what I call a reverse recoil but in actuality it is a triple recoil. You get the recoil to the back and the spring "bounces" forward the back again before settling into it's original position.It will literally shake a scope to pieces.This is why it is so important to replicate the exact "hold" when using a spring powered gun.The most widely accepted hold being the "artillery hold"because of the ease of repeating it consistently.
I have a fondness for simmons scopes so I called them about what the would recommend on a air rifle. The are owned by Bushnell and The do not recommend any of the simmons brand. And,the only Bushnell they recommend is the Trophy or the Elite.To me that says a lot about the quality of those two models!


Wade


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Wade; some of these rifles COME with scopes. What is the difference in the way the scopes are made???? 
I've been going thru the ads; I'll get one of the cheaper fixed barrel rifles as a starter. The choice now is .22 @ +/-900 or pellet at 1200. I know the pellets will kill squirrel, tough as squirrel hide is. Rabbit will die easier, and possum and **** should die even if not recoverable. 

Opinions?


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## arcticow (Oct 8, 2006)

I vote for the .22, but I have killed jackrabbits and even a duck with a .177... Bigger varmints, I feel like the bigger pellet is necessary...


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Wife spotted a chuck walking thru our back yard yesterday morning early. I really ought to buy one of those rifles.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

You can buy a heavy barreled Savage 22 with composite stock and accutrigger for pretty much the same price. Use CB caps in town or any place quietness is called for. As quiet, if not quieter than a pellet rifle. Good accuracy, usually better to 25 yds than air rifle, and much better knockdown due to heavier bullet, 29 grains. Still headshots are required. In my youth I used this set up in alot of populated areas. But the real beauty is you have full power 22 capabilities in the same gun. Just remember the zeros are way different between the two. I have mine set up with a O/U scope mount. The open sights are zeroed with CB's, scope 50 yd zero with Federal HP. I found Federal CBs the best for consistancy, Remington poor and CCIs dangerous. Some bullets didn't clear the barrel. I use a teflon bore coat now just for some peace of mind. Make sure you fire a couple shots after cleaning with this stuff as the first shots are real erratic accuracy wise.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

I am interested in air gun hunting because of the stealth factor. In a TEOTWAWKI situation I don't want to be drawing attention by shooting a gun. All of my hunting experience has been with a shotgun. 

If you have an airgun that has 1200 feet per second at the muzzle it's comparable to a shotgun with a field load or trap load. A 17 caliber pellet is 8.5 grains and a 22 caliber is 17 grains. This translates into a bit under a BB and an F size lead shot. The pellets should perform better, ballistically, than a round lead pellet. Seems like the pellets should take down any small mammal or bird if you are close enough. 

http://www.amazon.com/Predator-Metalmag-Pellets-Grains-Pointed/dp/B00H3HGE4Y

http://www.amazon.com/Predator-Metalmag-Pellets-Grains-Pointed/dp/B00H3HGDLI 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_(pellet)#Lead_shot_comparison_chart


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

The speed of sound is approximately 1110 fps. Once you go over the speed of sound it will sound similar to a 22 lr.There are many different weights of pellets for the .177,.20 and .22. Each will perform differently in different guns and shapes and weights and the ballistic coefficient is different for any of these.
Modern adult airguns have progressed to the point of being comparable in capability with modern powder guns so it is hard to lump assumptions together as we have always done in the past."these are not your fathers airguns". Each gun has to "be worked up" as you would with a black powder load except it is matching the individual pellet with the individual rifle for maximum performance.
They really have come a long way from pump ups and co2's to springers and now PCP's it's a whole new ballgame.

Wade


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

I placed an order for a Benjamin Trail NP2 in .177 cal.; compressed gas cylinder, break-action with scope. The consensus of users seemed to be that the better pellets widely available were the Crosman premier dome, so I ordered some of those too, thinking they'd be subsonic. 

The user complaints seemed to be that the rifle shook the scope mounts loose, but those who assembled the scope mounts with Loctite seemed satisfied. I'm surprised by the weight of these rifles.

We shall see.
Ox


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

I've not shot one but from what I hear I think you'll like it!

Wade


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Wade; when it comes in I'll give a report. I expect I'm going to have to find some gunsmiths' screwdrivers first, and some blue Loctite.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

The sights do "float" on occasion.

Matt


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

Shot worlds of rabbits with the Crossman 860 when I was a kid. Found the round nosed 177 pellets the best, but don't remember what they were?

Nephew gifted me with a Stoeger X20, and a slew of different pellets. I havn't shot it much yet, just trying the different pellets. Some grouped close to an inch at 50 feet on a windy day though! (windy enough the cardboard targets were moving as well!)He said this model had some great reviews.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

My new rifle arrived. 

Couple or three of things: 

No dry firing: May cause permanent damage.

Second, I was surprised by the weight. These rifles are heavier than my 30.06.

Third: The instructions that came with the book say that the first 250 or so shots may be inconsistent, but that as the gun "breaks in" accuracy will improve.

Fourth: They say that use of other than Crosman or Benjamin pellets may damage the rifle. No pellets came with the rifle, but other users had said accuracy was best with Crosman domed pellets, so I bought a can of them.

Fifth: I test fired one shot into the ground. Tore up a hole like an armadillo looking for grubs. LOUD, at least as loud as my .22 shorts. The box claims 1200 fps with lead ammo, so goodby to in-town shooting.

If it rains tomorrow I'll mount the scope.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Glad you got it! A few things. Don't over oil it. Too much oil will cause dieseling and that heat produced will burn the "0" rings.If you see anything out the end of the barrel when fired it is over oiled. It will also make it sound louder.
You should look into and learn about "lead dust collectors,LDC's". 'Nuff said there,just do it.
Don't worry about shooting other pellets as long as you stay with a pellet that is in the range of 7 grains and up. Anything lighter will be just like dryfireing.
The 1200fps was calculated using "VERY LITE pellets. Expect your fse to range around 950 to 1050 using average weight pellets,say 7.9s which I use.(It is a .177 right?)
Yes, it'll take a few rounds down range to break it in. That is even advisable when changing pellets.As it breaks in it will become quieter also.
I assume this is a barrel break rifle. If so be very cautious of what is known as a "bear trap". Always hold the barrel until it is back in firing position.If it snaps back it doesn't injure or bruise or break,it amputates!
Last,after you get familiar with it think about a quality pellet. Most people I know go to the crosman website and buy the "boxed" pellets. They are bowed at 2500 each and are all from the same die providing much better accuracy.
Hope this helps some. Keep us updated.
BTW,did I mention "artillery hold"?

Wade


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Wade; I knew about the oil, but I had not considered the dieseling; small wonder they insist that you do not use anything but their own oil.

The pellets I bought are 10.5 grain; they should be a bit slower than even the 7.9 gr, but the report is quite loud. 

As for the bear trap, I have already anticipated that. I've worked with enough traps to recognize one when I see it. That joint is dangerous, and so are the linkages underneath. 

Thanks for the tip on the LDC and the boxed pellets. It may be a while before I need those, but the principle is the same as those guys on the firing line who lob big lead bullets 200 yards downrange with old bolt-action military rifles. One mold, and each had better weight exactly the same, be seated to the same depth and fired from a matched case. 

First I want to see if this thing will put ammo inside a tin cup at 40 yards. I have no idea of the quality of the scope that came with it, so I have my work cut out for the next week or two.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Wade; the LDC; LOL, I'd not heard of those before now, but I'd heard earlier that some of my friends were putting silencers on their weapons.

The rifle I bought has a long shroud over the barrel; that shroud takes the air off just behind the muzzle, sort of like the muzzle brake on a cannon. 

Does not help all that much so far as I can tell.

Oh; the oil Crosman sells for these rifles is silicone.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Just remember,they are LCD's. Terminology Makes a tremendous difference to the government,especially when the ATF has no authority over airguns,archery equipment or muzzleloaders.

Wade


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Mounted the scope, loctite all threads, test fired three shots. Dead center horizontal but four inches low at 24 feet. 

I'll put it on a bench and zero the scope when the loctite sets up.
CS


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

How did it group?

Wade


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Offhand, two of three a half inch apart, one flyer. I'd say on a bench it will be fine. 

Also, I talked to the factory rep. He said it would take a few shots to clear the oil in the barrel and "lead it". Said not to clean it like a firearm, and only use silicone oil, 1 drop every 250 or so shots. He said the same thing you did about dieseling, and petroleum oils will ruin the seals. Also told me it would get much quieter.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Sounds like when y'all get to know each other a little better you'll be one holing or at least clover leafing at that range!

Wade


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

I have a older daisy 880,picked up at a flea market, they only recommend 10 pumps... It will do 30 easy. And 20 yard makes a pretty good crack hitting trees.
The older crossman equivalent same thing.
I would prefer that crossman model bit more solid.

If you check out youtube few guys built their own and are pretty well Bad But...lol
some better then others.

If you handy you could rework a paint ball gun for a smaller caliber, Though as close As I can get to the rabbits here, I'm willing to bet a paint ball would kill them as hard as they hit. If not I pretty sure a frozen one would.

Though I really like this one here, 
http://www.topairgun.com/30-evanix-tactical-sniper-air-rifle


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Fellows: I've been snake-bit. I mounted the scope, tried it out, found that the rifle shoots well, but when I switched the scope from 3x to 9 I found that the optics were screwed up. At anything other than 3x the target appears a thousand yards away. Some idiot reversed a lens I suspect. 

Today I call Crosman again.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Take a serious look at Hawke Optics. Lot's of good said about them in the airgun world. Personally, I use a Bushnell Trophy.

Wade


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Wade; I'm not spending any more money on this rifle until I see how it turns out. No iron sights, so I must have a scope. Crosman is replacing the scope and I'll send the other back to them for examination. My guess is incorrect assembly. 

I was concerned about removing the scope since I'd used blue Loctite to mount it, but with a bit of firm, gentle pressure the bonds broke and the scope came off. I left the mounts on the rifle. The scope mounts on a Picatinney Arsenal mount with recoil stops built into it. An efficient setup with a good scope.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

The latest: Crosman sent me not one but TWO replacement scopes. Replacements a little different and apparently a later model of the same scope. I'll mount one of them ASAP and give a report. Of course I'll return the original and the extra, but Crosman sure tries to please.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

That is good customer service!
Hope it works for you.

Matt


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

The Latest:

I mounted the scope and set up a 15 yard target as per instructions. I was well on the way to having the rifle hitting dead center; needed a couple of right clicks, when a shot took out the end of the supressor and carried it thirty feet forward. 

Called the company and the rep said that I should check to see if the supressor was screwed on tightly. Of course it was not. Rep told me he'd send two, and to make sure that the replacement was screwed on tightly, to check it now and then as any "droop" would result in a shoot-out. 

The surpressors are simply a plastic sleeve with baffles that screws on to the front end of the barrel and extends all the way back to the fore-end of the stock. I expect they are a design weakness and will not appear on later rifles. Rifle sure shoots where you point it though. I can shoot without the supressor with no damage to the rifle, but I'll wait.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Have you had a chance to run it over a chrony? I would be interested in knowing what the fps @ muzzle is compared to advertised.

Wade


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

My Chronograph has been packed away for years, but I can tell you that at 15 yards it penetrates six layers of heavy cardboard (corrugated cardboard, technically) and then puts a half-inch hole in a plywood cabinet door. It is shooting hard; I cannot even see the pellets in the plywood, but it is 3/4 plywood and the pellets do not exit. 

I had thought that the six layers of heavy box cardboard would slow the pellets enough that I could catch the pellets, but no, they embed themselves deep in the plywood. Good thing I had the old door or I'd have put some pellets in the back fence.


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