# Banding a cat??



## kath2003

I don't want to be jumped all over for asking this, its just a question, is there any reason a cat cannot be banded in the same manner as a day old goat buckling??


----------



## GoldenMom

Claws and teeth.


----------



## kath2003

LOL, I hear that!!!


----------



## Ronney

A very good reason - it doesn't work and is a cruel and painful procedure for the cat. Unlike a kid or lamb, the testicles don't hang away from the body so even if you were able to get a ring around them, it would finally create a huge lesion and still not have done the job.

A couple of months ago there was a photo in our local paper of a beautiful black and white tom that some cretin had done this to. His back end was a huge infected mess. He did survive and the SPCA successfully prosecuted his owner.

Cheers,
Ronnie


----------



## Unregistered

That is one job I would not like to have, holding a cat and putting a band on it.


----------



## Ross

A cat can also bend around enough to chew on the band etc. causing damage to its self.


----------



## Ardie/WI

I cannot imagine the pain that would bring to a cat!


----------



## kath2003

All excellent reasons, thank you. Was just wondering.


----------



## chamoisee

It can be done succesfully and humanely. It should be done when the cat is young- a kitten. Waiting until it is a full fledged tom is not a good idea. Th egreen lamb or goat bands are entirely too large for a cat...way too large. Use a very small, very tight rubber band such as the type people with braces (dental braces) use. It should be wound more than once, and make certain that you are not banding the penis as well!!!! 

Of course, if you can afford it at all, paying to have it done by a vet is preferable. 

Claws and teeth: wind him up in a towel or cram his front end into a sleeve or something. You DO need help to do it.


----------



## Patty0315

Banding can work without all the above problems. That said it can also not work. If you have an old time farmer or amish around they may cut them for you. They do it so fast it is unreal. And before I get jumped on we have cut little boys for many of years without concern for there pain.

Patty


----------



## kath2003

Hi Patty, the kitten you gave us is just great!! He has some serious nerological problems,lol, but my husband just loves him. He keeps us entertained for hours, lol. Thats part of the reason I was asking about the banding, my vet says he could die under the anestesia because of his problems. He is peeing all over the house and hubby says he will never get rid of him. I think he thinks the other cat we have, who is neutered, is a girl, and we are trying to find him a home because of my daughters allergies, two indoor cats is just to much! Well, anyway,anyone want a Turkish Van cat?????


----------



## Patty0315

Well I am glad he is doing well. Find an amish man or old farmer they will get the job done.


----------



## farmgirl1978

After reading this thread, I castrated my cat yesterday by myself. He was a stray that I took in a month ago and fattened him up. He weighs 7 lbs, so I gave him 5 cc's of acepromazine that I got from my vet. I gave it to him under the skin in his neck with a 22 gauge needle and 10 cc syringe. After 10 minutes he was really drowsy and tired. I wrapped him up in an old coat with his hind end and back legs sticking out and then sat on him (not putting all my weight down, of course). Then I cut one sac with a sharp razor blade like used for castrating livestock, just like you do pigs. Then I squeezed and popped the testicle out and then pulled it out, cut the other sack and pulled that testicle out and then sprayed it with iodine. He urinated everywhere as I was cutting the 2nd one, but other than that it was pretty uneventful. There was hardly any blood. After that he slept for about 10 minutes while I monitored his breathing (watching his chest rise and fall.) Then he got up and moved to his cat bed and slept there for the rest of the night. This morning he was still a little groggy, but he was playing with the other cat like he normally does. He hasn't licked it at all, I think because the iodine probably doesn't taste very good. I wanted to post this so other people know what to do in case they don't want to pay $100 or more for a vet to do it. I just used supplies that I already have on the farm.


----------



## Farmerjonathan

We have stuck ours down an old cowboy boot head first of course. Make sure it is a boot you don't use anymore, they'll tear the inside up. Quick, iodine (we use the purple spray) and they are good to go.


----------



## secuono

That's all nice and dandy, farmgirl1978. But you shouldn't ever tell this to anyone not experienced with livestock, certainly not city/suburban folks. Besides that they will try to ostracize you, they will seriously injure or kill the animal. Then they will be prosecuted and jailed for their stupidity. They might even blame you and then the law will come after you. 
Far too many idiots in the world to be mentioning these types of things are even possible w/o a vet!


----------



## BoldViolet

Contact vets and animal shelters - many places have no/low cost cat neuters and spays.


----------



## mrs whodunit

Its the way I do all of our male cats no matter how wild.

I wrap the cat in a heavy cotton bath mat and put between my legs while kneeling on the floor and put on the band. With the highly wild cat once I caught him I put him in a small box and stuffed as many rags as possible around him. I then fastened the box shut, cut a whole in the box where I needed to be and banded him.

Never bitten of scratched.


----------



## AngusLover

farmgirl1978 said:


> After reading this thread, I castrated my cat yesterday by myself. He was a stray that I took in a month ago and fattened him up. He weighs 7 lbs, so I gave him 5 cc's of acepromazine that I got from my vet. I gave it to him under the skin in his neck with a 22 gauge needle and 10 cc syringe. After 10 minutes he was really drowsy and tired. I wrapped him up in an old coat with his hind end and back legs sticking out and then sat on him (not putting all my weight down, of course). Then I cut one sac with a sharp razor blade like used for castrating livestock, just like you do pigs. Then I squeezed and popped the testicle out and then pulled it out, cut the other sack and pulled that testicle out and then sprayed it with iodine. He urinated everywhere as I was cutting the 2nd one, but other than that it was pretty uneventful. There was hardly any blood. After that he slept for about 10 minutes while I monitored his breathing (watching his chest rise and fall.) Then he got up and moved to his cat bed and slept there for the rest of the night. This morning he was still a little groggy, but he was playing with the other cat like he normally does. He hasn't licked it at all, I think because the iodine probably doesn't taste very good. I wanted to post this so other people know what to do in case they don't want to pay $100 or more for a vet to do it. I just used supplies that I already have on the farm.



We have always done them on the farm the way you described. Feral cats are a bit tricky so I'm curious about the ace. That is something we always have on hand. I am curious. Was that the vets prescribed amount? A 5cc dose is enough to sedate a horse. A 1/2cc is enough to take the edge off a 60 pound dog. I'm looking forward to knowing  thanks!


----------



## farmgirl1978

The vet just said to follow the label on the promace. With the label, it would have been .007 cc's for the 7 lb cat, but it was not nearly enough. The same thing happened when I castrated my horse last year, the labelled amount was not nearly enough.


----------



## AngusLover

farmgirl1978 said:


> The vet just said to follow the label on the promace. With the label, it would have been .007 cc's for the 7 lb cat, but it was not nearly enough. The same thing happened when I castrated my horse last year, the labelled amount was not nearly enough.



Agree that that is not enough.  I just would have thought .007 cc's to 5cc would be a huge hike! Lol! May have to give it a go though. Thank!


----------



## SunsetSonata

mrs whodunit said:


> Its the way I do all of our male cats no matter how wild.


I can't imagine this not being agony for a cat, specifically. How is it possible to squeeze off all sensation there? Or is this not a concern for you?

I'd hate to think novices would try this at home and not be completely successful, and the cat having to pay dearly for it. Cutting is much more humane.


----------



## SJSFarm

BoldViolet said:


> Contact vets and animal shelters - many places have no/low cost cat neuters and spays.


I have a cat who was destined to be a barn cat- my daughter found him to be too friendly- he does go in and out so he qualified for the low cost program. $10!


----------



## MARYDVM

5 cc of acepromazine (50mg) is a huge and potentially fatal overdose in a 7 lb cat. This cat died from being incorrectly dosed with 75 mg oral acepromazine.

http://itchmoforums.com/veterinary-...s-fatal-overdose-of-acepromazine-t3468.0.html

The dose on the label is maximum of 1 mg/kg body weight in the cat. This is slightly more than 3mg for a 7 lb cat. At 10 mg/ml the proper dose is .3ml NOT .007. 
Acepromazine is a tranquilizer, not an anesthetic. It does nothing to reduce pain, and human data suggest it may actually create hypersensitivity. Using ace alone would be comparable to a surgeon giving a human patient a valium pill and expecting them to hold still when the cutting starts.


----------



## farmgirl1978

The injection dosage for Acepromazine is 1 mg/lb not kg body weight which is .007 cc's for a 7 lb cat. 5 cc's=5000 mg's, not 50.


----------



## akane

Interesting options. We've had cats before that we just had to put down because we couldn't afford the neuter. The only low cost programs here require you to be low income and live in that county. Both of which do not apply to us. There is no shelter in our county. We try to find homes for them that are willing to spay/neuter but there are soooo many cats that it often does not happen. If we don't put them down we just end up having to find homes for endless litters of kittens instead. That doesn't help the fact we can't find homes for the adults.


----------



## Shygal

How can you afford to put down a cat but not a neuter?

You dont have to be low income to go to a spay/neuter clinic. My male cat cost 25 dollars to be neutered safely and painlessly. I don't care who is ridiculing "city people" about how things are possible without a vet. Home neutering of a cat doesnt have to happen.

How about you guys have a home vasectomy?


----------



## MARYDVM

farmgirl1978 said:


> The injection dosage for Acepromazine is 1 mg/lb not kg body weight which is .007 cc's for a 7 lb cat. 5 cc's=5000 mg's, not 50.


Read the label on your bottle again. Acepromazine is only sold in the 10mg/ml concentration in this country.
http://www.drugs.com/vet/acepromazine-maleate-injection.html

There is no 1000 mg/ml acepromazine available anywhere that I know of. 
1mg/kg is the standard vet dose since we don't like to risk delayed recovery times. The label says .5mg to 1mg/lb body weight which would be .35 to .7 ml for a 7 lb cat.


----------



## TedH71

In some places, neuter/spay prices can be crazy. The vet was gonna charge me $300 something for a male grown dog neuter. I told him no. He tried to get my female american bulldog/pit bull spayed for $450! Nope.


----------



## AngusLover

Those prices are insane! Wow! I wouldn't pay that either.


----------



## frogmammy

I know that if a dog has a tendency to seize, it WILL when given ACE....does it work that way with cats, too?

Mon


----------



## JoePa

While we are talking about cats - what are your thoughts about getting an indoor cat declawed by a vet - I have a female spray cat that I intend on keeping in the house and am thinking of getting it declawed - it is a very friendly cat but is real frisky and am afraid that it might scratch my daughter in the eye -


----------



## DamnearaFarm

Please, Joe, please don't have her declawed. Research the process....it's actually amputation. 
There are products out there (softpaws is one) that go over the claw to protect people and furniture.
I've been following your post about getting the new cat, btw


----------



## TJN66

Getting a cat declawed is actually amputation of the last joint on each toe. Imagine having each of your fingers cut off at the last joint so you do not have a fingerprint anymore. Add to that they walk on them, use the litter box, jump on them and use them every minute of the day. 
It can cause behavior problems too. Toileting problems, biting problems, aggression problems as well as arthritis making the cat pretty cranky.
Here is a link explaining it all: http://cats.about.com/od/declawing/tp/reasonsnot.htm


----------



## Patchouli

mrs whodunit said:


> Its the way I do all of our male cats no matter how wild.
> 
> I wrap the cat in a heavy cotton bath mat and put between my legs while kneeling on the floor and put on the band. With the highly wild cat once I caught him I put him in a small box and stuffed as many rags as possible around him. I then fastened the box shut, cut a whole in the box where I needed to be and banded him.
> 
> Never bitten of scratched.


This is an incredibly bad thing to do! First because of the the male cat's urinary and testicular anatomy which are very close together and the testicles are not hanging outside the body in a sack like the sorts of animals that are meant to be banded. It can cause a large abscess if you get the band just around the testicles. It would be very easy to also catch the penis in the band which would kill the cat since it would be unable to pee. Please do not do this! The cat can also reach the band and it could gnaw on the band or worse chew on the deadened testicles. It does not cost that much to have a male cat neutered and if you can not afford to have a professional do it then you can not afford to have a cat and you should not own one.


----------



## mrs whodunit

Patchouli said:


> This is an incredibly bad thing to do! First because of the the male cat's urinary and testicular anatomy which are very close together and the testicles are not hanging outside the body in a sack like the sorts of animals that are meant to be banded. It can cause a large abscess if you get the band just around the testicles. It would be very easy to also catch the penis in the band which would kill the cat since it would be unable to pee. Please do not do this! The cat can also reach the band and it could gnaw on the band or worse chew on the deadened testicles. It does not cost that much to have a male cat neutered and if you can not afford to have a professional do it then you can not afford to have a cat and you should not own one.


Sorry. I disagree strongly. Of the many cats I have done there has never been a problem. One must be careful when placing the band but its not hard at all.

It doesn't cost that much? LOL Um yes it does. Especially, for cats that are outdoor mousers.


----------



## Lisa in WA

mrs whodunit said:


> Sorry. I disagree strongly. Of the many cats I have done there has never been a problem. One must be careful when placing the band but its not hard at all.
> 
> It doesn't cost that much? LOL Um yes it does. Especially, for cats that are outdoor mousers.



I mentioned this to a vet friend in PA and her animal hospital gave a client the option of signing over the animal to the clinic or being reported to the authorities because of the damage this did to his dog. She said cats would be likely to suffer even more damage because of their anatomy. 
All states have animal cruelty laws on the books.


----------



## wr

My vet has indicated that banding is intended for animals who's testicles hang away from the body but not suitable for cats, dogs or horses. When it fails, it fails badly and one can be charged with animal cruelty.


----------



## farmgirl1978

I checked the label again and it is 1 mg/lb body weight concentration for cats made by Boehringer Ingelheim Vetmedica, Inc. in the United States.


----------



## Feralfarmer1128

I know this is a very old thread, but just wanted to weigh in.
It's very possible to band a cat, as I've neutered all my own toms this way. You need to use the smallest braces bands (the brand I buy calls them "squirrel bands" and size by different animals) and make sure you don't catch his urethra. Afterwards, pop a cone on, and he's good to go. Once the testicles dry up and shrink, you can take the cone off and he'll take care of keeping his behind clean, but won't chew them off and leave a festering wound. You can cut a slit in the scrotum and they'll drain so you can take the cone off sooner, but you don't have to. Every cat I've done is far more worried about the cone than the band on his balls.


----------



## RJ2019

I would add that a tetanus shot when the procedure is done, if you choose to do it that way, is important. Personally I'd be more inclined to stuff them in a boot and do it surgically, but hey...it's your cat.  If it works that's fantastic, I'm not into all the dogmatic treatment of folks who don't use a vet for every little sniffle or cut, or those who don't use the city folk "approved" methods.
I've been interested in the chemical castration method as well, calcium chloride. Introducing Calcium Chloride Castration - Animals 24-7


----------



## Evons hubby

When my tomcats begin to have litters of kittens I might consider neutering them!


----------



## RJ2019

Evons hubby said:


> When my tomcats begin to have litters of kittens I might consider neutering them!


They probably do and you don't know it


----------



## Evons hubby

RJ2019 said:


> They probably do and you don't know it


My vet assures me that tomcats do not have kittens….. not ever!


----------



## TedH71

However they spray outside and that smell is impossible to get out of stuff so neutering is recommended.


----------



## Feralfarmer1128

Evons hubby said:


> My vet assures me that tomcats do not have kittens….. not ever!


Actually they do. Did you think that kittens just magically happen when there's females? My female cats are kept inside and have never been pregnant since I keep my males neutered. Also, a neutered tomcat sticks around. An intake t one can roam up to three miles and will sometimes abandon the farm all together to start his own colony.


----------



## Evons hubby

Feralfarmer1128 said:


> Actually they do. Did you think that kittens just magically happen when there's females? My female cats are kept inside and have never been pregnant since I keep my males neutered. Also, a neutered tomcat sticks around. An intake t one can roam up to three miles and will sometimes abandon the farm all together to start his own colony.


Biology 101… males do not have babies. Not people, not cats, not dogs. Do you think your females would not get pregnant if allowed outside Whether your toms were neutered or not? My toms stick around the farm most of the time. My spayed females live outside and don’t get pregnant. Try that with yours, let us know how it works out.


----------



## muleskinner2

Shygal said:


> How can you afford to put down a cat but not a neuter?


I have never neutered, banded or castrated a cat. It has always been easier, and faster to just shoot them.


----------



## thesedays

Patty0315 said:


> Banding can work without all the above problems. That said it can also not work. If you have an old time farmer or amish around they may cut them for you. They do it so fast it is unreal. And before I get jumped on we have cut little boys for many of years without concern for there pain.
> 
> Patty


Baby boys are circumsized, not castrated, and nowadays, doctors do use local anesthesia.


----------



## Pony

Feralfarmer1128 said:


> I know this is a very old thread, but just wanted to weigh in.
> It's very possible to band a cat, as I've neutered all my own toms this way. You need to use the smallest braces bands (the brand I buy calls them "squirrel bands" and size by different animals) and make sure you don't catch his urethra. Afterwards, pop a cone on, and he's good to go. Once the testicles dry up and shrink, you can take the cone off and he'll take care of keeping his behind clean, but won't chew them off and leave a festering wound. You can cut a slit in the scrotum and they'll drain so you can take the cone off sooner, but you don't have to. Every cat I've done is far more worried about the cone than the band on his balls.


Banding any animal that can reach his scrotum is cruel. 

And keeping a cone on him until the scrotal sac shrivels? 

That is sick.


----------



## Feralfarmer1128

Pony said:


> Banding any animal that can reach his scrotum is cruel.
> 
> And keeping a cone on him until the scrotal sac shrivels?
> 
> That is sick.


Why is it cruel for an animal that can reach the testicles, but not animals who can't? Seems like a strange divider to me. Also, the cone is on for only about a week and a half if done well. Much shorter than most surgery recovery.


----------



## Pony

Feralfarmer1128 said:


> Why is it cruel for an animal that can reach the testicles, but not animals who can't? Seems like a strange divider to me. Also, the cone is on for only about a week and a half if done well. Much shorter than most surgery recovery.


Okay, "cruel" was probably a poor choice of words.

That said, an animal that can reach his banded scrotum is quite likely to tear into it and do more damage than was originally intended.


----------



## starrynights

Evons hubby said:


> Biology 101… males do not have babies. Not people, not cats, not dogs. Do you think your females would not get pregnant if allowed outside Whether your toms were neutered or not? My toms stick around the farm most of the time. My spayed females live outside and don’t get pregnant. Try that with yours, let us know how it works out.


Actually, male seahorses have the young


----------



## Evons hubby

starrynights said:


> Actually, male seahorses have the young


Then by all means band them!


----------



## wr

Thanks for the report and the problem has been solved.


----------

