# A Fiber Study of PKBoo's fleeces



## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

A handful of the spinners here received a lovely envelope in the mail filled with little baggies, like a little fiber snack-pack.
PKBoo has asked us to try them and give her a critique of how they 'rate'.

I thought it might be fun to share it w/ everyone. 

Here is what I got, samples of fiber from 8 different animals.
3 alpaca and 5 sheep.
I adore the fact that every baggie has the animals name on it.
PKBoo, feel free to add pics of the critters to the thread. I would love that.

Spread out on the livingroom floor:









I am planning to start on the alpaca first.
Let me get all the blue wool of my handcards and I will get to spinning.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

LOL, WHAT FUN! OK, now I wish we could all purchase the same pack so those of us that don't know how to rate wool, will know EXACTLY what the wool GAM is rating, is like! :teehee:

SO, like if GAM gives Copper a rating of say, 5, I will have some of Coppers fiber in my hand to know EXACTLY what #5 rating is like. Get what I'm saying? :huh:


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Jill, I am not sure it would work like that. 
More like I would say it is a 5 and everyone else would just have a different opinion and secretly think I am stupid. LOL

This is the first time I have been asked to do anything like this.
I am in no way an expert.

I will say that in the past when I have gotten alpaca it came unwashed and was loose and fluffy.
This is washed and swirled around on itself and fairly compacted.
So the carding is not very easy. Not impossible, and it isnt felted, but it is some work to open it up and prep.

I got Duncan on the bobbin just now. Copper is going to be next.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

LOL, I was kinda thinking along those lines too, or thought that would happen. But.........maybe everyone would be within a 2 or 3 deg. rad. of the 5, then we could all be CLOSE to a better understanding of how fiber rates. :thumb:


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

I also was privileged enough to get a packet of lovely fluff. I carded up all the alpaca last night. I have to say that when I first opened the baggies of Alpaca I was a bit disappointed, it all looked like maybe it had felted  But as I pulled out the bits and pieces and began to card them I was pleasantly proven wrong. I started with Killian, a lovely chestnut color, auburn. It is luscious and soft. Then, Duncan a beautiful chocolate brown or a nice cup of dark coffee. He was eve softer, wow beautiful stuff. Then I did Copper. At first as I pulled his fleece out of the baggie I was sorry that it felt harsher than the other two. But these things happen. I carded it up and he is soft, maybe not as soft as the other two but still very nice. I haven't done the bra test with any of these yet  In the picture below you can see from left to right, Duncan, Copper, and Killian







[/url] pkboo's fleeces 003 by mymerripu, on Flickr[/IMG]

I took Copper to work with me and a spindle and spent about 15 minutes spinning and demonstrating for the guys at work. Here's a very blurry picture of what I did. The dime kept reflecting back, I just couldn't get a good photo. He is spinning up very nicely 







[/url] pkboo's fleeces 004 by mymerripu, on Flickr[/IMG]


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

Thanks GAM & Marchie - we started with sheep & alpaca about the same time that I started spinning, and I've only spun my own wool, so I have no idea what the quality is. I asked a few here to do a "Fleece Critique" so I'd know what I have :shrug: I hope to improve the herd, so this is a first step.

GAM - the compactness is due to 'washing error' - ME! I think I get a little too exuberant and impatient when I wash... I had to pull and tug and sometimes rip to get the fibers apart too  I need to be a LOT more careful about that next time.

Marchie - you are right about Copper being more coarse! DH is an engineer, and brought home a micrometer this weekend. It measures in thousands of an inch, so I converted to microns (so definitely NOT as accurate as sending to a lab).

Here's what we got:
Copper 20.3 microns
Killian 18
Duncan 10

Killian's cute little face:










Copper and Duncan (Copper always has his face in the camera, so it's hard to get a good picture of him  )


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Oh my gosh! Seeing their cute faces makes spinning it so much more fun! 

I have Duncan and Copper on the bobbin, carding Killian now. 
Pictures tomorrow.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

You two are putting me to shame. PK sent me sample fleeces and I've yet to take them out of the bag.

I was going to play with Isaac first, but I guess I should do the samples so I don't forget to do it later.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Okay I carded up a bit of Celia (is a Shetland x BFL) this morning and spun that on the spindle. She definitely does NOT like to be carded. Combing is next. I'd say her fleece would be nice for outerwear, mittens, hats, socks. At least for now that is what I am seeing, feeling, and hearing her tell me. Man I tell you when you have an angry bit of fleece and it's yelling at you, you better listen. I've never had a fleece talk so loudly to me before, phew!


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

This is really interesting to follow. So, the higher the Microns, the coarser the fiber. I'm learning so much from y'all, this is awesome!:goodjob:


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## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

> Oh my gosh! Seeing their cute faces makes spinning it so much more fun!


If you are planning on selling the fleeces, it might be a cute idea to include a photo of the critter and maybe a little note from them.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I Took Celia and Freda out and straightened out the locks when I first got them.
Those types of fleeces are the ones I have the most practice w/ prepping.
Figured I would just handflick them open and they would be easy to spin.
Havent started yet though. 
I am a big fan of both of the breeds in that cross so I will try not to let that prejudice me. 


A little more of the Killian fiber to go first. I am just putting them one after the other onto a bobbin and still deciding how I will ply them.

Decisions, decisions.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

GAM I love the long wools but I wanted to see how this would card. I took the Isabella out and straightened out those locks yesterday. And darn it if I can't find my combs. I know I've seen them too :hair I have a dog comb I can use to comb each lock out with. I like trying things even though I know better. I was right. I'm not familiar with the BFL, never spun it before so it's all new to me  I'm very familiar with Shetland. This is fun. I have my guild meeting tonight :rock: I'll have to wait until tomorrow to post pictures.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Tres Alpacas Yarn! 

It is all one n-plied skein Duncan/Copper/Killian and it is so soft you could cry, I swear.
Around a sport weight is my guess.
Admittedly, I gave up on Killian's fiber. The sound of it tearing apart to draft it was setting my teeth on edge.



















It is hard to take pics of alpaca yarn, this was the best I could get on a snowy grey day.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Killian tearing while you drafted? Did you card it first? I had no problem once I got it broken up enou to get onto the carder. He carded very nicely. I haven't spun any of him yet but his fibers seemed no more matted than any of the other Alpaca.

PKBoo, I definitely recommend you either not wash your Alpaca or learn to have a much gentler hand in doing so. Really Alpaca is better off sold raw unless you can offer it light and fluffy.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

It was tearing when I tried to break it up for the cards. 
I did about half of it, then the rest is like a big long rope.
It was def more matted than the others.

No problem with it other than that though. Lovely soft stuff.


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## lathermaker (May 7, 2010)

gone a milkin: That's some beautiful yarn!


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

GAM - it's so cool to see all three colors in one skein - like a carton of Neopolitan fleece cream 

Sorry about the felting - I thought I was gentle when I washed this. You should have seen it the first time I did it :smack I try pulling it all apart before I card (definitely not an easy task). Lesson learned :stars:

Cyndi - no pressure at all! Don't worry if you don't get to them!


Marchie - Celia was gray, then grew out white half way through the winter, so each lock was gray on the bottom and white at the top. I wish she wouldh have stayed that way - it was cool!









Last summer I flick carded each lock, spun it from the lock, then made my first shawl(s): 




















I pulled out my hand carders over the weekend, to practice spinning true woolen and worsted. I carded Isabella, and I must not be doing it right, because the fibers ended up lined up the same way, and it was really easy to spin from the rolag. I think it was more like taking combed fibers and just rolling them up. I haven't used the hand carders for over a year - I'll have to watch some videos to brush up 




hercsmama said:


> This is really interesting to follow. So, the higher the Microns, the coarser the fiber. I'm learning so much from y'all, this is awesome!:goodjob:


Did you see the list of Fine/Med/Coarse breeds in Exercise 2? That pretty much sums it up! I also learned that Celia is showing the 'katmoget' markings of Shetlands - cool!

Tommyice - that's a good idea to include pictures - they crack me up every day :hobbyhors



Marchwind said:


> PKBoo, I definitely recommend you either not wash your Alpaca or learn to have a much gentler hand in doing so. Really Alpaca is better off sold raw unless you can offer it light and fluffy.


I don't think I better wash any more alpaca!


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I just finished spinning the Celia sample, come on here and THERE SHE IS! :grin:
I really enjoyed spinning her wool, it just slid along so nice.
No wonder you have trouble w/ undertwisting, that fiber dosnt like to stay in your hands very long. 

She sure is less grey now than before. My skein reminds me a bit of grey water, LOL.
It is a great candidate for one of my test-dye projects.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

PKBoo, here's how I wash alpaca - 

Put an old sheet in the bathtub then fill the tub with a little shot of soap added to the cool water and smoosh the sheet down so it is under the water. Then add the fibre, and just squish it down so it soaks up water and stays under.

THEN WALK AWAY.

After a couple of hours or more (more if you can stand it), pull the end of the sheet up to catch the fibre and let out the plug. Hold up the sheet by the corners and let it drip, hang it (by a string wrapped around the sheet) if you can. When it stops streaming and starts dripping, undo the sheet and take out the fibre and lay it on a rack to dry. When it is half way dry, pull it apart a little bit at a time so it dries more. It may take 2 days or more to dry (even in my VERY dry climate). Put a fan on it if you are in a more humid part of the world.

The key is not to touch it while it soaks. The sheet makes it possible to handle the fibre very very little, but the dirt and stuff still seems to fall out (judging by the mess in the tub). 

Might be worth a try.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

Frazzlehead, you only wash it ONCE!  I just put an alpaca fleece in the tub, the way you said to. :yuck: the water is ALREADY NASTY! Can you at least wash TWICE and rinse till the water comes out clean?


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

Frazzle, should I have SKIRTED the fleece before I put it in the water? :sob:
I thought NOT handling it much kinda meant not dragging it all out on the floor and stuff. Now, I'm thinking I was kinda WRONG! :Bawling:


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Yea JDog usually you skirt before you wash.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

PKB, that is one BEAUTIFUL shawl, I just keep looking and looking and looking at it! :grin:

OK.........NOW what do I do  can I skirt the fleece AFTER it has been washed? :grumble:


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

frazzlehead said:


> THEN WALK AWAY.
> 
> Might be worth a try.


Wow - that is definitely NOT how I've washed it. It's definitely worth a try!



JDog1222 said:


> OK.........NOW what do I do  can I skirt the fleece AFTER it has been washed? :grumble:


JDog - I don't think you really have to skirt alpaca (that's what you're washing, right?) The shearer takes off the blanket (the prime GOOD stuff), tells you it's prime, so it's bundled separately from the seconds. So my understanding is, you can use ALL of the prime without skirting. So follow frazzle's directions above, then wash it once it's spun to remove the rest of the dirt... right frazzle?


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

re: washing alpaca - all depends how nasty it is.

First, you whack it about a fair bit while it is DRY - completely dry - to knock off as much dust as you can. There are tumblers, kind of like the big drums you see used in bingo, and you can roll the fleece around in there to bang the dust off. You want to do as much of that as you can. And of course, you would not put anything really dirty or nasty in the tub. They take dust baths, though, so there is always a lot to wash out.

I usually just wash it once and dry it - it's usually clean enough to spin then, and then I'll wash it again after spinning to full the skein a little. If it is a white fleece, I will usually wash it a few more times as any dust that is spun in will stay after spinning - you don't notice it in the darker fleeces but on a white one you sure do.

The handling you want to avoid is WHILE IT IS WET. Do not squish in the water, do not swirl, do not put water in while the fibre is in the tub, don't touch it! Fill tub, submerge (you have to push it down with your hands but use flat hands and just push till the bubbles stop then LEAVE IT). A good long soak really does wonders - the trick is to use LOTS of water, so that the fibre floats and the sand and dirt sink to the bottom of the tub. 

I don't rinse it if I only used a little soap - I figure it helps keep the static down while I spin and it'll come out when I wash the skeins. If it is really awful, I'll pull the fibre out in the sheet and then refill the tub and resubmerge it, but I haven't had to do that very often.

You can sort the fleece any time. I have only ever gotten fleeces that were already pretty well picked over (my friend owns alpacas and is friends with a shearer so hers are very well done) - but you just do the pile sorting the usual way, whenever it seems a good time. Before washing makes sense, why wash stuff you are gonna throw into compost, but I'll do a preliminary sort before washing and then sort again after if I'm being careful. You want to put it in piles of matching lengths, softness, and colour if you are sorting by colour. The yarn comes out nicest if all the raw material is similar.

I learned that at a class I took last summer. 

ETA For alpaca do NOT USE HOT WATER. That'll contribute to the felting as well ... you only need lukewarm water. There is no grease, just dust, so lots and lots of water, but no heat.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

JDog, if the water is really awful, then yeah, let the drain out while holding the fleece at the top of the tub with one hand and let most of the water go. Then, keeping the fleece OUT OF THE WAY OF THE WATER you can top up the tub again. 

Make SURE the water is cool when you let it out and cool when you refill - if you used hot water, wait until it is all cooled off before you do anything. Heat opens the fibres, and then any agitation at all encourages felting.

Really, let it sit. Lots of the guck in the water will probably settle out.


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

frazzle - we were posting at the same time 



frazzlehead said:


> The handling you want to avoid is WHILE IT IS WET. Do not squish in the water, do not swirl, do not put water in while the fibre is in the tub, don't touch it!


oooops :hammer:




frazzlehead said:


> For alpaca do NOT USE HOT WATER. That'll contribute to the felting as well ... you only need lukewarm water. There is no grease, just dust, so lots and lots of water, but no heat.


oooops :smack

(Sorry GAM :ashamed: )


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I am loving this thread. 

I got all the ewes spun up to a laceweight. It is very lofty and nice.
The vm levels were not in anyway extreme.

Pics when I get some decent lighting.

Next comes Mr. Wooliam Shakespin!! :teehee:


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

OK, it's on it's second wash now. I just let the COOL water out and put more COOL water in. I'm gonna let it soak ALL night, then drain in morning. This alpaca seems to have LOTS of oil to it. Is that normal?


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Oil??

Alpaca have no oil at all. None. They don't make any.

What were they rolling in, bitumen?


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

There is a sheep at PKBoos' house named Woolliam Shakespin? That is SO awesome!


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

I have NO idea what the oil is, but these fleeces make your hands feel all NASTY! It's mostly on the cut side. Do you think it's from oiling the shears? To me this feeling is like sheep wool in the grease! But, when I put my knee down on the fleece it left oil stains on my knee and my hands got kinda shiny. Let's just hope it washes out! :shrug:


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Oh - yeah, it could be shearing oil. Never seen that but that's about all I can think of it being - they do reoil the shears a few times during a shearing session, but it shouldn't be THAT much!

Use lots of soap in that case. A bit of oil will help smooth the spinning, but if it's enough to leave grease spots on your knee and shine up your hands it is way too much! Weird!


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Does it smell like machine oil?


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

NO, I tried smelling it, but it didn't really smell. It is just so tacky like, it get ALL OVER your hands when you touch it even just a little bit.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Weird. That's definitely not from the alpaca itself, gotta be the shears. Where's this fleece from? Is it one of PKBoos?


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

OK, SO, here is the YT I made when I got them. It was last year and you can see I noticed they were oily when I got them. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dMs8I-qA1Q[/ame]


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

frazzlehead said:


> There is a sheep at PKBoos' house named Woolliam Shakespin? That is SO awesome!


My English major DD named him 

last year when he was younger:









She wanted to name him Woolie, and I wouldn't let her. She has a good imagination, cuz guess what his nickname is :teehee:

He's quite the distinguished gentleman though. His 'baaaaaaahs' are high pitched, and go up at the end (like a question) - not a manly BAAAAAH haha! 











JDog - maybe you should contact the seller about the fleeces? Are they both oily like that? YIKES!


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

JDog those look more like sheep fleeces and if they are that greasy and that compressed, my guess is they aren't Alpaca. Greasy sheep's wool will compress like that and sort of stay the shape for a bit. Alpaca would be much more fluffy. Maybe Alpaca will have a barny scent but I've never had one that had a very strong odor like that. Can you take some close up pictures of the fibers themselves? Maybe before and after washing?


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## Falls-Acre (May 13, 2009)

I've recently purchased a couple bits of Alpaca and some wool fleeces. The Alpaca didn't look like the stuff in the video. Maybe mine is different, true, but there was only an oily feeling from one of the bags of wool (I thought it was cool! LOL but I'm weird that way). I even got close to a lock of the Alpaca and it didn't really have a scent (which surprised me, I was hoping for something LOL). Now I want to get a little closer to the stuff I have and compare again! I'm wondering if I evaluated them well enough.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)




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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

I don't have any record of what they are, just know I paid 57.50 for the package. Is that priced for wool or alpaca? From the video I'd say I thought I was getting alpaca.


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

:dance: I found one of my old emails. I think they are all Merino! Guess I need to use a different wash method! :hysterical:


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

THIS stuff may be SOFT...........but, MAN is it STICKY and OILY! :yuck:


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

Hey, PKB, you got any alpaca FS that YOU haven't WASHED! :hysterical: 
Don't you just LOVE the learning process! :happy2: :grouphug:


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Merino is VERY greasy, VERY. How long have they been sitting? Do they feel tacky or still greasy? If they are feeling tacky you may have to resort to the FSM (?) method to get the grease out. This is what happened to me with some Cormo I had and I was never able to get it so that it wasn't tacky, no matter what I did to it. It just sat too long in the raw before I washed it. You may have to get or us paste to wash that with and it will take HOT water in every step, without allowing it to cool at all. Good Luck!


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Whew! Yep, that's wool all right!  I was trying to figure out how alpaca could leave your hands so greasy. But like the other say, Merino is definitely a very greasy wool - so yup your method changes!

A cold pre-soak DOES help with wool though - as you saw, a lot of the dirt and yukkies comes off with the cold soaking. So that wasn't a waste of time. If you can put it in a bucket of cold water for a week, that isn't a bad thing either though it may start to ferment which would be awful unless you can do that outside where you live this time of year. 

Hottest water you can get, let it soak. Smaller quantities. If you can put some in a bucket, and then wrap the bucket in a few towels to hold in the heat, that sometimes helps lengthen the time you can get out of the soak. If you have a wood stove, you can also put a bucket (metal of course) on or near the stove so it is very hot but not boiling (I do that).

Still no agitation - merino felts well too Don't let it cool - if it cools, the grease just re-congeals on the wool (think greasy supper dishes left in the sink too long).

Glad it's not alpaca, that just wasn't making sense!


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

It's TACKY! I have had it about one year and I'm guessing the lady that sold it to me had it for at least a year. It was on discount 50%.  
What is the FSM? It is on it's second soak in HOT water, now! I'm going to go to my wool book and see what it says about this type of wool. I would HATE skirting these things raw, YUCK they feel NASTY! Guess I can make this one of my 10 breeds for study, at least.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Well, JDog, it's very lovely and I'm sure it'll wash up. Tacky isn't a problem - just lots of hot water, lots of soap (Sunlight dish soap is what we use - cuts grease!), it'll come clean.

It's very pretty, it's gonna spin up beautifully!


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I finished with the ewes and Mr. Shakespin. 

All of these are spun as fine as I could go with 14:1 ratio and then 2 plied.












It has been very dark and rainy so these are indoor pics but I couldn't wait to show you.










Oh that ram's wool made a bouncy stretchy yarn. I love him!

I did pick through Stuart's crunchy fleec and found a good handful of stuff that wasn't too over-scoured. 
Still need to ply it.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Looks beautiful GAM.


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

GAM - they're beautiful!!!! I love that ram's fleece too - I'm working on a lace scarf now that is turning out nice! I definitely underspin, but it is soft and squishy that way too. 

So do you think Isabella would make good sock yarn? I've only spun her to use as test skeins for dyeing - she does take dye well... That was going to be one of my goals for TdeF - spin sock yarn and make a pair 

JDog - you just crack me up! Good luck washing that merino - I've read that's the greasiest fleece, and hard to get clean. Please share your progress!


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## JDog1222 (Aug 19, 2010)

PROGRESS, it's out and DRYING now. I stopped counting how many times I WASHED and rinsed the thing. I think the #1 use for that stuff is TACK CLOTH! If this thing makes it through ME, I'm making it into something to HANG myself! Today I am DRUNK W/FIBER! This class is 100% for the HARD CORE fiberer! <looking for the "wipe the sweat from your brow emotion" :happy2:> :runforhills:


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

PKBoo, I think that both Isabella and Freda would be good for socks. 
Personally, I lke Freda a bit better.
Her fleece seems more uniform, w/ fewer of the tog hairs. They really show up in my fine-spun skein of Isabella.
I would call Isabella's fleece "chewy" and use that for my felted slippers and heavy-wear garments.
It spins like a dream too and w/ little waste.

I am excited for you to be taking these classes. 
I think there are certain areas of all 3 of those ewes fleeces that will make a good strong yarn,
and other parts that you could make much softer finer yarn from.

I am going to put all these samples through the dye bath, then I am sending them back to you.
My spinning is far from perfect and I want you to see that w/ your own eyes. :teehee:

The biggest thing I noticed over-all is that you need to do gentler washing on those finer fleeces. 
Even Wooliam could have been sorted better and not drug around or wrung out or whatever you did, quite so much.
He has very soft fiber and I would pull all the fine neck wool off and wash it away from the cleaner and more stable-structured middle area of the fleece.
Those long coarse britch locks I would also divide and deal with separately.
It is so much easier to do all that when the fleece is raw, rather than after it is all spaghetti tangled and slid around...in my humble opinion. :angel:

That said, you have some LOVELY fiber critters to work with.

I can hardly wait to watch what you learn from this master spinning class. 
You and Jill are teaching all of us too. :kissy:


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

GAM that is indeed lovely spinning, I am impressed!

Your description of the fleece sorting is exactly what we learned in the class I took - the lady laid out the fleece and we had to figure out which parts came from where. On my own sheep that is always easier to do, 'cause I know them and I did the shearing myself, so that was really good learning. We found the pieces that 'matched' and put them in piles: all the really soft stuff, all the coarser stuff, and if there were sections where the fibres were shorter than others we made separate piles by length, too (I always had to pull out one 'sample lock' as a representative of 'this pile' then I matched things to the sample lock. We threw all the stuff with lots of VM straight onto the floor - life's too short. 

PKBoo - Icelandic felts if you look at it funny. It'll felt right on the sheep, but I'm sure you know that! Wash it very much the same way you'd wash the alpaca: in the tub AFTER it is full, with hot soapy water (though it doesn't have to be scalding hot like it does with heavy lanolined fleeces, there isn't much grease to remove) and then let it sit. The sheet trick is really awesome because it reduces the handling you have to do. Always make sure your rinse water is the same temperature as what you drained out, temperature shocks increase the risk of felting. Do not spin Icelandic (I know some people will put fleece in the washer on spin to get the water out) ... just let it sit until it's mostly dry. You can gently tug it apart as it dries so it doesn't take a week. 

Gorgeous wool!


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

gone-a-milkin said:


> then I am sending them back to you.
> My spinning is far from perfect and I want you to see that w/ your own eyes. :teehee:


NOOOOOOOOOOOOO - please keep it! All that work - you need to keep it for yourself! I believe that your spinning is far from perfect (yeah right, under my breath), and I DON'T need to see it myself! Honestly - please add it to your stash - you never know when you might need some overwashed yarn!

Thanks so much for your help - I've learned a LOT from it! I knew I wasn't doing a good job skirting, but I didn't realize that you should separate all of the different sections out. I could SEE that there were differences between them (especially the britch area), but just threw everything in together. 



gone-a-milkin said:


> Even Wooliam could have been sorted better and *not drug around or wrung out or whatever you did,* quite so much


 :hysterical: It's not funny - that's exactly what I did! (your description cracked me up and actually made me LOL )

Frazzle - your description of the 'puzzle pieces' amazes me :shocked: Shearing is next weekend, so I will be analyzing these locks very closely! One of the exercises for the MSP is to take sections from each location, so that will be an extremely helpful exercise for me! And I'll have to research washing fleeces again, since I ignored the whole 'be very gentle' mantra that I've read so much about :Bawling:

GAM - when you said 'tog' hair, did you find that on some of them? I've read that there could be double-coated Shetland, but I didn't think that ours were (I've never noticed two different types of wool in the lock...) Maybe I wasn't looking closely enough???

frazzle - I'll have to try the sheet method, but I'll have to do it outside in a kiddie pool. We have a septic system that we try to put as little grease as possible into, so I thought that washing fleeces was a no-no. I dump all my buckets around the yard. Our sheep are mostly Shetland/BFL, so not real greasy? One BL/BFL too.

DH actually plumbed an attachment for a garden hose from our hot water in the basement, so I can have hot water outside for washing fleece. Our water is heated by a wood furnace - water temps are 140 right from the furnace. Is that too hot? 

WIHH - no stress at all! You've got lots of projects going already!


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

Forgot pictures of Freda (or Freaky Freda as we call her!) She was like a ping pong ball when we first brought her home!










And here's Isabella - she's the only BL/BFL was have. And yes, she is VERY fat! We thought she was bred last year (she was NOT). We are hoping she is bred this year!!!!










And this is my little Stuart Valentino with the heart on his forehead. He came named - love it! Not sure what breed he is - maybe a Corriedale X. He's company for Woolie the ram. 










My DD drew me a logo for me for Christmas, and he's the mascot. It's a cute little sheep with a heart on the forehead :kiss:


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I do see definite tog in Freda's fleece. It is not really wiry, but the very longest hairs in each lock are a bit coarser than the rest. 
It is noticable when you flick card it, when you are spinning, and when the yarn is washed. 
Those slightly heavier (and more yellow) longer hairs? You never noticed that?
It's a shetland thing. Have you ever spun any purebred shetland?
Hers are NOT bad, and I love her fleece. Those fibers would add durability to socks. 

I hope Freda isnt too fat to breed back. :teehee:
I bet a cross between her and Wooliam would be interesting.

I didnt really see any definite tog in Celia though. Her staple length is not as long either.
To me she has more of the BFL lock structure and more crimp.

Then there is Isabella. She is just a different thing. No Shetland in there at all.
Her fleece is not as soft. Her crimp is not as tight. My personal descriptive for wool like that is 'chewy'. 
It is sturdy stuff. It seems quite happy to felt right up on itself. 

I still havent plied Stuart yet.
DH's day off, town trip, and a dog movie w/ an unfortunate ending, then supper and kid plans for the long weeked. Whew!


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

GAM I'm going to send you some of my friend's Shetland. Her Shetland is next to the skin soft and does not have a double coat, not tog in her fleeces. She breeds for the heritage (not the right word but it will work for here) type of Shetland, the old type. I think Cyndi bought one of her fleeces last year and WIH was looking at them. She now coats them. I will send you some in the grease. Not all Shetland is alike. Her's is exceptional.

PKBoo I have the guild's spin-in tomorrow and I have the samples packed along with my wheel.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Marchwind,
I have heard that not all Shetland is double-coated, but I honestly I have never experienced it firsthand. 
Your friends fleeces sound wonderful.

There is nothing wrong with double-coated fleeces either!
In a way it is like getting 2 fleeces in one. 
With proper prep you can separate them pretty quick.
Or leave them together, either way.
I LOVE Shetland wool.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Marchwind said:


> Somewhere upstairs in the fiber room I have a single coated Shetland ... but I can't remember who I got it from ... got a name for me Marchie?
> 
> Big differences in single and dual coated shetlands. You wouldn't notice it so much until you got a true single coated shetland though


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

My friend is Sabrina Erickson, she lived near where I lived in MN. Here is the link to website where she talks about her breeding program (links to specific info on the side bars) she sent her fleeces in for micron counts too. Those results are also on there. http://bostonlakefarm.blogspot.com/ It looks like she has changed her web site a bit. If you look under the Fleece for sale tab she lists micron counts for each fleece. They seem to average about 25.5


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

PRETTY SHEEPIES!

They are so lovely. I just wanna hug them!

I wouldn't put the greasy wash water from a Merino down my tub drain, but I wash Icelandic in the tub and don't worry about it (we have a septic field). You can also wash in buckets and dump the buckets outside, or if you have a farm pump, you can wash in the tub and run the farm pump out the window when you are done! Lots of options. Or wash outside. I do that in the summer, but in the winter when I need to wash, I'm not waiting for outside weather! I will also do small batches in a bucket on the woodstove (especially really greasy stuff that needs to sit in hot hot water for a good long time). 

When you guys shear next weekend, if you are the skirting table person, be really vigorous about yanking off the VM full wool around the neck. I always find that's the worst stuff and it falls off and gets into the rest of the fleece so if you can just tear it off at the start you save yourself trouble later on. All my sheep have a spot as big as two hands on the back of the neck that has to go - it'll never come clean, just chuck it. Lots of the time it's half felted too. That, and the poopy bits and the short filthy belly wool all hit the floor and never even make it to the sorting bag. I'd rather have a bit less wool but have it all clean! 

Lookin' really good from here - GAM thanks for the pics of the finished yarn, so lovely!


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

On Friday at the spinning group I was able to comb out and spin Isabelle. it spin us easily and nicely, very smooth. I agree that her fleece would be good for socks or other outerwear, mittens, anything hard wearing. I wasn't able to get to the others yet and I want to ply this before taking pictures. Will post soon. I also wanted to ask the other ladies if you all had issues with the tips of Isabelle's breaking away, off?


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Marchwind, I just broke them all off when I flicked them open with my little dog slicker brush.
It seems like a common problem, those sunburnt tips. 
I have even read where people cut them off w/ scissors but have never tried it.


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

I found that the tips are brittle on every one of the sheep - they are only in the barn during bad weather, and they aren't coated so they get burnt tips quickly. All of the black sheep turn brown pretty quickly. I flick card every lock before carding, so it gets rid of the tips and VM (and there's lots of that!)

GAM - I realized I have never even spun Freda! So I'm going to pull her out today and see if I can see the tog fibers. I've never spun anything but my own sheep, so this fleece study has been very good for me!


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

PKBoo said:


> GAM - I realized I have never even spun Freda! So I'm going to pull her out today and see if I can see the tog fibers. I've never spun anything but my own sheep, so this fleece study has been very good for me!


Well. Okay then. 
For a minute I was doubting myself but then I would get the skein and hold it up.
The yarn doesn't lie. LOL

All you have to do is grab a lock and flick it open. 
Then hold the cut end tight with one hand, pinch the longest fibers from the 'pointy' end of the lock with the other hand and pull them out. 
Then go get that fancy measuring tool of your DH's again. :teehee:
Nah, you will be able to SEE the difference. :nerd:


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Ha,ha WIHH! Same warming goes for angora and mohair. Angora though will stick to everything no matter what. You will be pulling rabbit hair out of your mouth and nose for days.

I need to get back to working on the rest of these fibers. I'm almost tempted to card all the Alpaca together and spin it. I'm saving Willamb Sheepshanks for last (is that how your spelled his name?).since I've never spin BFL before I want to savor the experience


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

LOL! I had to turn the blower fan for the woodstove off to deal with that alpaca too. 
In fact, I was vaccuuming yesterday and found a clump of it that had gotten away from me. It was hiding under the sofa. :teehee:

Can you imagine how horrible it would be to be allergic to a really fine fiber (angora rabbit) and not know? 
That stuff gives me bad dreams thinking of being coated w/ bunny fur. <frantically searching for the inhaler> LOL.


Oh, and that ram's name is WOOLiam Shakespin. :angel:


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Well done WIHH! Ive been way too busy with other stuff to really work with these this week. I have to agree with both you and GAM on your assessments. I think this week is slower than last week so hopefully I'll be able to get to plying.

BTW, rams, IMHO, always have the best fleeces. In their life cycle they have far fewer stressors than ewes do, and therefore have a consistently nicer fleece.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Oh WIHH, your yarn is wonderful!
And there is so much of it.
Apology accepted on the group photo. 
Are you going to overdye your stripey 2 color skeins?
I love having little bitty skeins to toss in that dyepot at various stages.
When I get rolling with the colors none of my yarn is really safe from it so I like to have LOTS of skeins, even if they are tiny.
I love dyeing wool as much as any other part of the process. It is like magic to me. I never get tired of it! LOL

For mini skeins, you can fold the loop of yarn over one more time so they are half as long and twice as thick. 
Put a finger from each hand into the opposing loops and twist, twist, twist. Then tuck one loop inside the hole that is held open by the finger from your other hand.
<That sounds kinda dirty, doesn't it? :teehee: >




I like your little tags too. They are more professional than my masking tape w/ sharpie...
although mine are waterproof so I dont have to take them off for dyeing. 
I guess that is why I still do mine that way. Oh, plus I am cheap. :gaptooth:

I still need to settle on a project for my wensleydale yarn. 
It is sort of...stumping me. Holy smokes is it different than anything else I have spun. (not in a bad way).
What are you thinking of making with that stuff?


Marchwind, 
I think it makes perfect sense that the rams would have nicer fleeces.
Seems like the 'good' hair is always wasted on BOYS (at least in my family).


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

WIHH - thanks so much for your feedback! That helps me so much! And I love your skein line-up. Looks like a fleecey runway 

A shepherdess friend of mine came over yesterday and she took a look at this year's shearing - so between her and all of you, I have a much better idea of what to look for (and what I have). 

She suggested that I take some of them to Md. Sheep & Wool, and I could sell them there. Not sure that I'm ready for that yet, but something to shoot for anyway. She also suggested sending some of it to a mill to get roving back - not sure what I want to do yet. I am going to sell some raw - with DD getting married this summer, I'll never have time to do it all myself. 

I'm glad to be working with these fleeces from scratch this year - now I know what NOT to do when I wash!


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

You are going to offer those fleeces for sale to us here in the forum first, I hope. 


Good luck with them, whatever you decide to do.

I can hardly wait to hear about your new lambs. You are going to be swimming in fleeces. :teehee:


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

I definitely will GAM - you all are like family here! :kiss:

Too bad I have to wait for a year to get those lamb fleeces - and I don't know that I'll be able to keep every single lamb that's born (though I know I'll WANT to!) *sigh* I need more pasture...


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

I finally got all the alpaca carded together and will try to spin it today. Here are a few pictures of my rolags. Here's a link alpaca rolags 001 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Okay, I don't know why I'm no longer able to post pictures :sob: Did something change? Can someone help me please?


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Ooh, that is some fluffy alpaca, Marchwind!
I'm excited to see the yarn you make with that.

I have never known how to post pics from my flickr account onto HT, so I am no help there.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Thanks GAM, I don't understand why all of a sudden I can't post the photos. Never had a problem before. Maybe I'll put a plea on the FAC thread. 

I haven't spun the fibers yet. Thinking of a fine two ply and hope it blooms in the wash. That Llama I spun bloomed nicely, I thwacked it good and hard several times before hanging it to dry.


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