# Police shoot wrong vehicle...



## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

Good grief. Just delivering newspapers and nearly get killed by the police. I guess this was just another "honest mistake." This makes me think that maybe the police shouldn't have "assault weapons" if they are this trigger happy. This should be worth at least a couple of million$ for the women.

"TORRANCE, CA -- Two women were hospitalized after being attacked by police for driving a blue Toyota Tacoma. *Police were looking for a pickup truck of a different color, make, and model* with connection to the ex-LAPD officer suspected of murder. 

Upon seeing this truck drive down a street receiving special police protection, they began unloading their weapons on sight. Reportedly the truck had its lights off while delivering papers. 

There are almost 40 bullet holes visible in this picture. It is obviously *in a residential neighborhood*."











.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Not that the police should shoot up any vehicle like this and I'm not justifying their actions but why were they driving with the lights off? How were they driving with them off, of do you not have auto lights and day time running lights there? Not sure I understand "receiving special police protection"???


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The police are spooked.


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## gryndlgoat (May 27, 2005)

Ross said:


> Not that the police should shoot up any vehicle like this and I'm not justifying their actions but why were they driving with the lights off? How were they driving with them off, of do you not have auto lights and day time running lights there? Not sure I understand "receiving special police protection"???


Cars in California are not equipped with DLR's or autolights. (I had to have DLR's installed when I moved my California car to Canada). There were people living on the street who were under police protection --the cops were guarding the street (the article reads like the newspaper girls were under protection--badly written).


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Under any circumstances, there is no excuse for this. I normally have a great deal of respect for police, who are under great stress, but I can't think of any reason to assault this vehicle without any warnings.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

A big black eye for LAPD. Not only do they shoot first and ask questions later, they unloaded on the pickup yet inflicted very little damage to the occupants. They are trigger happy and bad shots all rolled into one. 

I bet they are spooked. One of their own has run amuck and knows everything they know. They have no advantage other than sheer numbers.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MO_cows said:


> A big black eye for LAPD. Not only do they shoot first and ask questions later, they unloaded on the pickup yet inflicted very little damage to the occupants. They are trigger happy and bad shots all rolled into one.
> 
> I bet they are spooked. One of their own has run amuck and knows everything they know. They have no advantage other than sheer numbers.


Barney is on the job and Andy is AWOL...


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Guess the police need to go take some hunting classes... The first thing you are taught is BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET.......


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## Mattemma (Jan 1, 2013)

This reminds me of the mistakes made by police entering(and killing) homeowners during NO-KNOCK warrants.Sad part is in many cases it was the wrong house,or the person they were raiding was NOT involved in illegal activity.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

ninny said:


> Good grief. Just delivering newspapers and nearly get killed by the police. I guess this was just another "honest mistake." This makes me think that maybe the police shouldn't have "assault weapons" if they are this trigger happy. This should be worth at least a couple of million$ for the women.
> 
> "TORRANCE, CA -- Two women were hospitalized after being attacked by police for driving a blue Toyota Tacoma. *Police were looking for a pickup truck of a different color, make, and model* with connection to the ex-LAPD officer suspected of murder.
> 
> ...


They did this TWICE! First it was the women delivering the Times newspaper, then it was a man in a blue honda. The cops heard the first shots, then ran towards the scene in their car and saw the blue Honda and rammed it than started shooting at the driver. The cops shot like 40 rounds.......and missed. Cops attacked the wrong people twice! Great! And tptb want to take our guns.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

So my question is, if the cops are shooting at you for no good reason, can you legally shoot back to defend yourself?


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I hadn't seen that the women were driving with their lights off.

That's immediate grounds for full blown attack, I don't care who or where you are.

Hat's off to those policemen for catching that inexcusable act and so forcefully detaining the perpetrators.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

simi-steading said:


> So my question is, if the cops are shooting at you for no good reason, can you legally shoot back to defend yourself?


Not applicable in this situation......those women were driving with their lights off......or so we are told.

Otherwise.......no, not "legally".


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Eh.. legal or not, I think had I of been one of those women I would have... I mean, ,you figure you are about to be dead anyway, might as well take a few with you...


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I didn't say it would be the wrong thing to do........... 


Legal, almost by definition, means "with permission".


It is a sad day when any man comes to the point where he believes he must seek permission to do the right thing.
.....and that not intended to shed bad light on anyone, but society as a whole.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Trust me.. I'm one that seeks forgiveness, not permission


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Spooked? of course the police are spooked. Their shooting skills are as bad as they come. Remember the shootting in NYC when all the wounded civilians were all hit by police fire? I hope a lot of people lose their jobs and if they have them pensions over this fiasco.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Those cops should face the exact same repercussions as any set of civilians who choose to take out their spook on unsuspecting innocents going about their business.


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## Kel T (Aug 19, 2011)

I can understand the lights being out on the truck if the street was well lit with street lamps. I had a friend that did the early morning paper delivery and would go without lights on well lit streets to keep from shining his headlights into people's windows and waking them.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Police..... 

To Protect and Serve.... (Each other)


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

I normally have some respect for police officers, but there is NO! excuse for this..

They should be fired and never, ever be able to work in law enforcement again.. 

And to let it happen twice!

This entire department needs fired and they need to hire real officers..


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I had respect for cops years and years ago.. but then my mother started working for a PD and I got to personally know a lot of the guys... The egos turned me off big time... and as time goes on, it seems that's a pre-req for being a cop... HUGE ego..

Yes, I know we have some LEO's here, but I'm sorry, I've met more arrogant cops than I have "regular people" cops... 

There's something to be said for respect gets respect... I've had way too many cops start off with a total lack of respect towards me when being pulled over, or stopped and questioned... 

I have had a few good instances with LEO's too, but they were by far a rarity..


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

JJ Grandits said:


> Spooked? of course the police are spooked. Their shooting skills are as bad as they come. Remember the shootting in NYC when all the wounded civilians were all hit by police fire? I hope a lot of people lose their jobs and if they have them pensions over this fiasco.


And both women deserve to be supported by the LAPD for the rest of their lives. 

:soap:

That they hired people this incompetent explains, at least in part, how Christopher Dorner got on the force in the first place.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Forerunner said:


> I hadn't seen that the women were driving with their lights off.
> 
> That's immediate grounds for full blown attack, I don't care who or where you are.
> 
> Hat's off to those policemen for catching that inexcusable act and so forcefully detaining the perpetrators.


LOL! What a bunch of morons. They should be put in the pen. INEXCUSABLE!


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

40 shots and they still didn't kill them?

Just like the song by Jim Stafford "Cow Patty".


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

In cases of such gross negligence, I think the police should face the same legal repercussions as if they were regular citizens. Maybe then accidents like this would'nt happen as often.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Here's about all the more I can say.... Just Sayin'....

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/specialty-forums/general-chat/475241-just-sayin.html


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Originally Posted by *simi-steading*  
_So my question is, if the cops are shooting at you for no good reason, can you* legally shoot back* to defend yourself?_

Yes you can, but you probably won't win


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpapdB-bCFI[/ame]

40 shots rang out&#8230;.40 people fell&#8230;..Patty and the killer missed each other but they shot that town to &#8230;..


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

fishhead said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpapdB-bCFI
> 
> 40 shots rang outâ¦.40 people fellâ¦..Patty and the killer missed each other but they shot that town to â¦..


We saw him at Magic Mountain about 40 years ago. Sang "wild wood weed"!


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## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

Here's the second wrong vehicle that the cops wrecked.










.


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## PistolPackinMom (Oct 20, 2012)

simi-steading said:


> So my question is, if the cops are shooting at you for no good reason, can you legally shoot back to defend yourself?


Peons are not to raise a hand against their betters, even in self defense.

We are supposed to be able to legally resist unlawful arrest, but in court, our word is hearsay, and the cop's word is vouched for by virtue of his profession. Guess who wins by default?


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

The police have all wrong. What they should do is turn all the guns in and every criminal will surrender. Like the ones in Chicago. Like they say in congress all the time when they try to take our guns away.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

This scenario falls precisely into the plan of the PTB.

They desperately want to widen the gap between law enforcement and the people.

They desperately want the people to take action against local law enforcement.

They know that, eventually, there will not be enough "law enforcement" to resist the uprising.

Enter the foreign troops/brownshirts to End Game.


My advice ?

Keep your cool, even if it hurts.

However, if you _are_ directly and unprovokedly attacked......


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

I bet them folks are glad the cops are bad shots .


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

All this proves is cops should be unarmed!


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

beowoulf90 said:


> I normally have some respect for police officers, but there is NO! excuse for this..
> 
> They should be fired and never, ever be able to work in law enforcement again..
> 
> ...


I disagree, firing them is not nearly enough. if I had drawn my legally carried concealed weapon because I got spooked and fired many rounds at a car for no good reason, I would be arrested and most likely tried and sent to jail. Police should not get a free pass just because they are cops or scared.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Here's his "manifesto". While I completely disagree with his way of dealing with the corruption I have to say that there are times when all normal channels are blocked by the people in charge.

http://ktla.com/2013/02/07/read-christopher-dorners-so-called-manifesto/#axzz2KDzTVIlO


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

The LAPD here are in shambles. Everyone of them is terrified, that's why they issued a shoot on site order(for their ears only). That's why these shooting of innocents is happening. Dorner is one angry dude. He is bringing his knowledge of warfare and the LAPD tactics to use against them. He knows he's going to die. He has silencers, 50's, and maybe some explosives, according to his "manifesto". This info was just verified by a neighbor(LAPD detective). The LAPD destroyed his career with them and the Navy. 

WOW!!!!


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

MO_cows said:


> A big black eye for LAPD. Not only do they shoot first and ask questions later, they unloaded on the pickup yet inflicted very little damage to the occupants. They are trigger happy and bad shots all rolled into one.
> 
> I bet they are spooked. One of their own has run amuck and knows everything they know. They have no advantage other than sheer numbers.


What about their brilliance in vehicle identification? Brown and Blue both start with B so empty your guns. No matter they are above the law. There will be no consequences.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

LOL

Aren't we the ultimate armchair quarterbacks?

Join the LAPD, and work in that Armageddon, for a couple of years and see how "trigger happy"_ you_ end up.

BTW LA County _only_ has 1300 gangs with 160,000 members.

Even _Sheriff Andy Taylor_, might get a little grumpy here. :fussin:

http://www.google.com/#q=los+angele...pw.r_qf.&fp=497099c2455ca7e4&biw=1343&bih=666


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

plowjockey said:


> LOL
> 
> Aren't we the ultimate armchair quarterbacks?
> 
> ...


They're not grumpy, that's the personality type the LAPD is looking for! The LAPD and the gangbangers have agreements, the citizens do not!

The gangbangers could easily take over, but that agreement keeps that from happening. Most everyone here in L.A. knows this!


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> They're not grumpy, that's the personality type the LAPD is looking for! The LAPD and the gangbangers have agreements, the citizens do not!
> 
> The gangbangers could easily take over, but that agreement keeps that from happening. Most everyone here in L.A. knows this!


Little hard to tell which is which an't it :duel::run:


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Join the LAPD, and work in that Armageddon, for a couple of years and see how "trigger happy"_ you_ end up.


Why am I *not surprised* you're making excuses for them?


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

ninny said:


> Good grief. Just delivering newspapers and nearly get killed by the police. I guess this was just another "honest mistake." This makes me think that maybe the police shouldn't have "assault weapons" if they are this trigger happy. This should be worth at least a couple of million$ for the women.
> 
> "TORRANCE, CA -- Two women were hospitalized after being attacked by police for driving a blue Toyota Tacoma. *Police were looking for a pickup truck of a different color, make, and model* with connection to the ex-LAPD officer suspected of murder.
> 
> ...


this is why assault weapons should only be in the hands of highly trained police officers


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

plowjockey said:


> LOL
> 
> Aren't we the ultimate armchair quarterbacks?
> 
> ...


BS
I had mortars, rockets & RPGs shot at me and never lit up anyone not actually threatening me. If they can't handle the strain & maintain their professionalism, they can take up waitressing or any other job that doesn't involve life ending decision making.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

plowjockey said:


> LOL
> 
> Aren't we the ultimate armchair quarterbacks?
> 
> ...


Yeah.. guess that does give them the right to open fire on innocent civilians without asking questions first.... No need to be responsible or professional...

:umno:


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

plowjockey said:


> LOL
> 
> Aren't we the ultimate armchair quarterbacks?
> 
> ...


Sheriff Andy would kill 'em dead. Dead, dead, dead....


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

simi-steading said:


> Yeah.. guess that does give them the right to open fire on innocent civilians without asking questions first.... No need to be responsible or professional...
> 
> :umno:


I didn't say, it gave them the right to do anything.

I used to live out there and watched the *24 hour real time* coverage of the LA riots that went on for *six days*. Sure it initiated with cops, beating Rodney king. but after seeing the garbage, cops go have to go through daily, I'm not the least bit surprised, they are losing their minds.

Practically every crime scene they visit, the witnesses all of the sudden don't speak any English and what ever weapons were there, have already disappeared. They can fill out pages of reports that accomplish absolutely nothing.

The were two employees killed execution style, in a $500 robbery at a restaurant we frequented and someone shot point blank and killed at our "favorite" ATM.

Listen to the gunfire at midnight, on New years eve. Unreal.

High speed vehicle chases are near daily occurrence, where the culprits will run through or over anything and crash through police cruiser barricades, with cops shooting or running for their lives, to avoid impact.

I could not help but notice, in the last meltdown, a "good cop" ratted out other cops, using excessive force and was "let go", with the result of this "good cop" losing it himself and going an a killing spree.

It's easy to judge the lack of "professionalism", others without stepping up and offering to do a better job yourself.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Why am I *not surprised* you're making excuses for them?



The LAPD is _always_ hiring.

Maybe you should sign on and see how long, _your _cheery disposition, lasts.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

HDRider said:


> Sheriff Andy would kill 'em dead. Dead, dead, dead....


I was watching ole' Andy, recently and just marvel (every time), how nice of living quarters, Otis the drunk had in the jail cell. 

Times sure have changed.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Pops2 said:


> BS
> I had mortars, rockets & RPGs shot at me and never lit up anyone not actually threatening me. If they can't handle the strain & maintain their professionalism, they can take up waitressing or any other job that doesn't involve life ending decision making.


I respect your service, but through the years, there have been many reported instances, of Soldiers "losing it" and probably many more, never reported.

Not really that hard to understand either, occurring in a Military situation, given the dangerous and tedious circumstances they face, day after day.

I don't condone the misdeeds of the LAPD, but after living out there, I'm not really that surprised, either.

That's probably why they have such a high turnover rate, for a job that pays $60,000 year, before overtime.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Forerunner said:


> Those cops should face the exact same repercussions as any set of civilians who choose to take out their spook on unsuspecting innocents going about their business.


It will be judged an honest mistake, but the City will still be responsible for civil damages. This will be the kind of lawsuit that people can retire from.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

It may be understandable why cops anywhere get stressed, but criminal behavior can not be condoned or tolerated in any way. Cops and cop management has to be held to a much higher standard or we end up with a gov't funded mob ruling the streets.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

CesumPec said:


> or we end up with a gov't funded mob ruling the streets.



:indif:

That's not even funny.


It is, however, good to know that PJ is clam-happy with whatever the government sends down the pike.

Contentedness is a good thing, right ?


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

CesumPec said:


> we end up with a gov't funded mob ruling the streets.


Pretty much the way it been heading for years... 

It's interesting a report I found and started a post on that yesterday, the cops are more corrupt than the regular every day people are when it comes to murder and violent crimes. I'd like to find some statistics on more minor crimes committed by cops.. I bet those too would be higher per capita than they are for every day people to...


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Watch Denzel Washington's "Training Day".


Then come back and tell us about corruption in the ranks of "law enforcement".


I appreciate the disclosure that Hollywood affords us.


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## PistolPackinMom (Oct 20, 2012)

simi-steading said:


> Pretty much the way it been heading for years...
> 
> It's interesting a report I found and started a post on that yesterday, the cops are more corrupt than the regular every day people are when it comes to murder and violent crimes. I'd like to find some statistics on more minor crimes committed by cops.. I bet those too would be higher per capita than they are for every day people to...


Copblock.org


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

PistolPackinMom said:


> Copblock.org


Yep, that's the place the report I posted is at..


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

When we were in AZ for an extended stay, we had passed through a town and saw the sign the next 'services' was quite a distance away, I decided we had to stop. We were not on an interestate, just a divided highway. We saw a crossover, no signs or impediments in the way and crossed over.

A young highway patrolman stopped us. He seemed a little uneasy, and spent a lot of time talking. Finally, I told him we made the crossover because I had to go to the bathroom and if he was going to ticket my husband anyway - meet us at McDonald's. (It was getting serious by this time.)

He followed us up there, I went in and even bought coffee. When I got back out, this young man had sat down, behind the door of his car and was writing the ticket. All this time and he still hadn't finished the ticket. 

I asked the policeman something. My husband put his hands on my shoulders and told me to get in the car. He knows better that that - but for some reason I did. 

When he got in the car, he told me he was sorry but that young man was scared, - even with us too oldies, and didn't know what he was doing. He said, 'There's nothing more dangerous than a coward with a gun.'


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Forerunner said:


> :indif:
> 
> That's not even funny.
> 
> ...


You don't think the LAPD, or any PD for that matter, would like to have only _stellar_ cops? They take whoever shows up forr work.

The Government has nothing to do with it - it's *us*.

If you _want_ a better cop, sign up yourself and _be_ the better cop.

.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

plowjockey said:


> You don't think the LAPD, or any PD for that matter, would like to have only _stellar_ cops? They take whoever shows up forr work.
> 
> The Government has nothing to do with it - it's *us*.
> 
> ...


No, it isn't an easy job - 

That is true, but it doesn't excuse those who are bad policemen - or just bad people who are policemen.

If you have a job, do it well, do it right, or leave. I've never understood excuses being made.


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

plowjockey said:


> LOL
> 
> Aren't we the ultimate armchair quarterbacks?
> 
> ...


Armageddon????? The FBI uniform crime report lists 3 officers feloniously killed in all of California in 2011, 5 officers were accidentally killed in the line of duty in California. That sounds like neither Armageddon or a holocaust.
When one signs on to be a police officer he/she signs up for everything the job entails. If an individual cannot handle the inherent stress of any job he/she
should quit or be fired. Job stress is no excuse for criminal actions and attempted murder is a criminal action, There is no excuse for the actions of the LAPD in this matter.


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## PistolPackinMom (Oct 20, 2012)

plowjockey said:


> You don't think the LAPD, or any PD for that matter, would like to have only _stellar_ cops? They take whoever shows up forr work.
> 
> The Government has nothing to do with it - it's *us*.
> 
> ...


True, sometimes people just suck, and not everyone is perfect, at life or their job.

But my not so _stellar_ neighbor cannot exert the same force and authority over my life or my rights as someone wearing a badge.


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

> If you _want_ a better cop, sign up yourself and _be_ the better cop. plowjockey


Since not everyone is cut out to be a police officer how about demanding your elected officials do a better job recruiting, hiring and supervising police officers. Why not demand a civilian review board with real power be elected?


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Funny thing from Carlos Mencia the other night. I'm paraphrasing here.


If, on your first day of training, they give you a bullet-proof vest, a gun, a car, a shotgun in the car, a dog, etc etc, you gotta think to yourself 'Y'know, something just might go down in this job.'"


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I used to repo cars... I would have been a LOT less apprehensive being a cop with a gun... but you didn't see me shooting people just because I was scared half the time... My chances of being shot doing a repo was probably a lot more realistic than if I would have been a cop, especially since a few people did come out with a gun and point it at me...

A cop has NO REASON to be opening fire on someone just because he's scared and he sees no immediate threat, like a gun pointed at him.... That is a very unprofessional person. Someone driving without lights is not a threat towards him...


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

bjba said:


> Since not everyone is cut out to be a police officer how about demanding your elected officials do a better job recruiting, hiring and supervising police officers. Why not demand a civilian review board with real power be elected?


Sound's like the LAPD is not setting their standards *low* enough.

*LAPD Exodus Is Outpacing Recruitment*



> In July, the monthly class for new recruits was canceled for lack of qualified candidates.





> Perhaps no task facing the police department of the nation's second-largest city is more daunting than hiring and keeping officers. Although all big city departments are having difficulty attracting hires, the LAPD has a passel of problems: an unpopular work schedule, a tarnished image, an arduous application process, and even a reluctance on the part of officers to encourage others to sign up.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

CesumPec said:


> I disagree, firing them is not nearly enough. if I had drawn my legally carried concealed weapon because I got spooked and fired many rounds at a car for no good reason, I would be arrested and most likely tried and sent to jail. Police should not get a free pass just because they are cops or scared.



I have to agree and change/add to what I said.

Once fired they should be hung! Of course only after they've had their day in court..

I never said they should be excused for their actions, in fact they should be held to a higher standard and their punishment should be harsher then an ordinary citizen..


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

plowjockey said:


> Sound's like the LAPD is not setting their standards *low* enough.
> 
> *LAPD Exodus Is Outpacing Recruitment*


Low standards may be a problem. Seems to me a large part of the job of city administration is recruitment of acceptable candidates for employment. There is no better reason to make management changes than the inability to attract acceptable recruits for city jobs. You are correct in that the citizens of Los Angeles must be responsible for making the needed changes.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

No excuse for the cops shooting the wrong vehicle, shooting two civilians who were out doing their job, and another truck that was not doing anything wrong. 

Plowjockey, you can make all the excuses you want for the LAPD doing this, but those excuses still do not hold water. If a police officer shoots 40 times at an unarmed, civilian and hits two of them, those officers should be not only reprimanded but jailed.

Police Officers, like Priests or other "higher officials" are held to a higher standard that "ordinary" citizens. If my Priest is doing wrong, I want him to go to jail - I don't care what "wrong" that is - and no, being a pedo is not the only wrong a Priest can do. 

If a cop is doing wrong, or is "shoot first and ask questions later" - I want him in jail. He is not fit for duty, not fit to wear a uniform and surely not fit to be "disciplining" the public. 

There ARE NO EXCUSES. None. 

That is what is wrong these days with America. Everyone making excuses for all the wrongs done to the citizenry. Oh he had a bad childhood, oh it is dangerous out there, oh..bull hockey..

If they cannot hire and maintain a police department that is above shooting ordinary citizens, then the state police need to take over.

And if the state police cannot handle the job, then the National Guard or US Army needs to take over.

There comes a time when the citizenry needs to stand up and say enough.

And I suppose if I were a citizen of LA this would be the time. It's one guy..he isn't even in the city anymore they believe...but then again, what do they know..they can't tell one color of truck from another and certainly can't tell paper carriers from a huge, strapping, ----ed off ex-cop.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Well here's you a big stinkin pile of dog doo.... http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Police-Who-Shot-Women-Mistaken-ID-Leave-190413671.html

The cops who did the shooting have been placed on paid leave, and will have to see a department psychologist before returning to patrol... 

Talk about different standards just because of their jobs...

To me, it's no less a criminal act than had it of been me, a regular citizen opening fire on that truck..


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

This is horrifying. No wonder people are so afraid of authority and government and need their guns for their own protection so bad when this is what your authority and government and people who you pay from your taxes are doing to your own innocent people.

This is unjust and those cops should be in cuffs and facing court NOW.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

_Attorney Glen Jonas said Maggie Carranza, 47, and her mother, 71-year-old Emma Hernandez, were delivering Los Angeles Times newspapers around 5:15 a.m. in Torrance when the officers opened fire on their vehicle.

Jonas said, "There was no warning. There were no orders. No commands. Just gunshots."

............

"The vehicle is a different color. The license plate doesn't match. There's nothing there for you to start shooting people. And even if they had the person in question... Mr. Dorner...you still have to give them an opportunity to get out. You can't just start administering street justice," said Jonas._

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162...t-women-shot-by-lapd-officers-had-no-warning/

These two cops should be sitting in a jail cell for attempted murder.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Perhaps, PJ....... if it had been you.....and your 71 year old mother.......delivering papers in your automobile that did not match the description........carrying the license tag numbers that did not match the APB........ and maybe you had been, say, nicked in your noggin......just a little bit.......by one of those absolutely unprovoked 40 shots.......fired without warning.......then maybe........just maybe........you could sing a tune that did not smack of obtuse antagonism.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Forerunner said:


> Perhaps, PJ....... if it had been you.....and your 71 year old mother.......delivering papers in your automobile that did not match the description........carrying the license tag numbers that did not match the APB........ and maybe you had been, say, nicked in your noggin......just a little bit.......by one of those absolutely unprovoked 40 shots.......fired without warning.......then maybe........just maybe........you could sing a tune that did not smack of obtuse antagonism.


 It certainly was a grave situation, for everyone involved and I would probably see things different, being directly involved

That was not my point.

Cops everywhere, more so in LA, have a tedious, stressful, dangerous and thankless job, that certainly wears on their very soul, on a daily basis.

It's also a job than none of us - in our right minds , would do, for a million dollars, becasue we know, that if we didn't get shot, we'd probably end up, just like the rest of them.

Why don't they quit then? A lot of people stick in lousy jobs, hoping to make it to pension time. Maybe they are just psychotic.

Somehow though, we feel we deserve license to badmouth, those - that for whatever reason, are willing to take, on that nasty job on - to the best of their abilities, which are likely deteriorating, after years of being in that situation, where everyone you encounter, could and possibly might kill, or maim you, plus, knowing that most crooks will be back back on the streets - knowing who it was, that busted them.

What really did happen in that shooting and is it as simple as the media makes it sound? Who knows? Maybe there was another person with a gun, that ran off. Cops lie. Victims lie. LE was a tad bit touchy, since there was a cop killer on the loose.

What would you or I do, if we were in that same situation?

Thankfully we'll never know.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Believe what you will, but believe it or not, most cops like their jobs. Many also love the power and authority it gives them... 

I've known and hung around way too many cops. My mother worked for a PD for 20 years... and most of them feel they are above the law... Funny.. I could drink with them all night in the bar and it was OK or them to drive home, but no one else when they were on duty.

With some I knew, the more the intense the situation, the more they got off on it... Keep thinking and believing what you will, but they don't leave their jobs because they do like it, not because they don't know what else to do or are looking for a decent pension.

Something you need to remember here.. they guy they are looking for is doing this because they fired him.. he WANTED his job... and he wanted it so bad he's killing for it... Not something I'd be doing if I felt my job was crappy and I got fired from it...

BTW, I DO know what I'd do.. I know I'd not be shooting at someone if I could't see them.. or know if they were even a man or woman...


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## Warwalk (May 25, 2011)

I knew a cop as a friend of a friend once before... I remembered on several occasions him bragging about how many cars he'd pulled over on a particular day. Anyhoo, one day, my girl at the time and I were over at his girlfriends house. He came through the door all smiles and proclaimed how he'd just gotten from one point to another in record time. 

I asked him how he'd gotten home so quickly... He said "I was haulin' @ss, man!". 

I said "but shouldn't the laws apply to you as well?". 

He said "Nope. Cuz I got me one-a these!!"... at which point he pushed his badge on his shirt out proudly at me, and then burst into hysterical laughter.

We didn't hang out too much with them after that.


(I wish I could say that's been my only unfortunate experience with the boys in blue, but it isn't. Still, I've never felt the cold steel of cuffs, so I guess it could be worse, lol)


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2013)

They should be prosecuted, but what do I know, only did their type of job for 26 years. A badge does not protect anyone for such an error in judgement and abuse of authority.


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

dlmcafee said:


> They should be prosecuted, but what do I know, only did their type of job for 26 years. A badge does not protect anyone for such an error in judgement and abuse of authority.


Correction. A badge _shouldn't _protect anyone from such error in judgement and abuse of authority.

I've dealt with good cops and I've dealt with bad cops. Shamefully, I never had a good cop when I needed one. Overall I'd say my experience has been: just like people, don't trust a single one until you've gotten to know them. I'm wary about cops in general though. Always thinking to myself, "What did you decide I did wrong NOW?" and I don't even do anything wrong!

Been booked for things I never did, went to court and lost because a cop who didn't even show up managed to get an adjournment with his word winning over mine. And for this experience all I learned was: well at least I didn't get shot at while delivering papers in the morning with a geriatric driver. 

Out of curiosity, I noticed it's done but I can't recall if it's in America: if someone unloads a bullet and is of law enforcement, they have to empty the whole cartridge, right? Someone once told me that and I was like, "So what, send one guy out for everyone to shoot at while innocent people stand behind and then send everyone else out to kill the cops?" but then I can't figure out why you would need FORTY ROUNDS in a fricken vehicle.

I mean, except for the fact they appear to have needed more than that anyway.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Will be interesting to see how the media works these street shootings into their anti gun/anti over 10 round magazine on the air fairy tale breaking news gun control reports.


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## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

"at least seven officers opened fire. On Friday, *the street was pockmarked with bullet holes in cars, trees, garage doors and roofs"*

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2987031/posts

.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

The Police State in America has no grounding in the constitution.

They are troops, quartered among us, and the warnings against such a standing army should start making sense to the populace at large, about any time now.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Only problem is Forerunner, most the people will never wake up no matter how close the coffee is to their nose...


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I bet they wake up when some of that piping hot coffee is dumped over their heads.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Maybe so, but it will be too late by that time. I mean, come on.. When cops dress like this, It's already way too late..


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Forerunner said:


> I bet they wake up when some of that piping hot coffee is dumped over their heads.



Sorry! But no they won't!

They will do exactly what PJ has done..

Create excuses for the crimes being committed.

People like that think they have an "inside knowledge" when the truth is there are a lot of us who have "inside knowledge" and don't make excuses for this type of behavior.

For example a friend of the family is a retired PA State Trooper and a reenactor friend is a retired NJ State Correctional Officer.. 

sarcasm on;
I wonder if either of them had to deal with gangs and gang violence..
sarcasm off

Oh and both retired with 26 years or more when they were in their early 50's so pay must not have been too low or their retirement package must be golden... 

So "pay" isn't an excuse either...

Anyway, some will always make excuses for those in positions of authority. Thus they will never learn


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Oh.. another thing I saw that made me sick was the picture of a military style coin the LAPD chief passes out, that Dorner shot up and sent in.

Those are a military tradition the PD's have adopted...










That last coin in the stack doesn't give me a warm fuzzy... Train, fight win..... What happened to protect and serve?


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

simi-steading said:


> Maybe so, but it will be too late by that time. I mean, come on.. When cops dress like this, It's already way too late..



I've said it here before that "militarization" of Law Enforcement was happening and isn't going to be good...

Now they are above the law! 

Like it or not!

This started long before this....

Ruby Ridge & Waco just two examples, there are others if we want to look...


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I've been saying for years and years they are going too far.... but everyone else felt they were being kept safe.... I'd tell them it was only a matter of time before they would stop you and ask for your papers, and sure enough, it's come to that.... Think Stop and Frisk in NYC... Think DUI roadblocks... I said it would come to that long before it started happening... 

I love getting off Amtrack here in the DC station and having a cop in tactical gear standing there with his dog checking out everyone getting OFF the train.. a little late then... All they are doing is looking for drugs at that point.. not for terrorists..


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## Huntinfamily (Aug 14, 2010)

As a former LEO I guess I will add my feelings to this. First off, Police should be held to a higher standard. We are not Cops only when on duty, we are cops 24/7. No matter where we are or what we are doing we are expected to be and act professional. Yes, law enforcement is a very very stressful job. That is why before starting the academy you are given a psych exam. People that cannot learn to think rationally in stressful situations have no reason being in law enforcement. When I went to work every shift I always reminded myself that I was putting my life in danger to protect the lives of my neighbors and to treat each and every person I dealt with the same way I would want my Wife, Mother or Son treated. I was only a Leo for a few years because I did not trust some of the other guys on my department. Many of them had the "I'm a cop and can do whatever I want" mentality. It is easy to see how they got like that. Some were bullies in high school and felt like with a badge they could still bully people. Others were bullied in school and used the badge as an excuse to get back at people. Me, I just love the part of the job where I got to help people. I hated arresting people. Sure, some people deserved to be arrested but with some ( like a teenager with a little weed) it was better to bring them home and tell their parents what they did wrong. By my department standards I was not a good cop. I didn't make a ton of arrests, I didn't write a load of tickets. I preferred to give people a second chance, stop and check in on our elderly residents, walk the halls of our local schools and talk to the students. You know, Andi Griffith type stuff. As a former Marine that saw way to much violence in war and being trained to think before acting in violent situations I was a lot more calm and collected in stressful situations than some of our other officers that had gone from college to the academy to patrolling the streets. I don't know what has gone wrong in law enforcement in the last few years to make many cops become cocky, arrogant cow rear ends, but I don't trust many anymore.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

plowjockey said:


> You don't think the LAPD, or any PD for that matter, would like to have only _stellar_ cops? They take whoever shows up forr work.
> 
> The Government has nothing to do with it - it's *us*.
> 
> ...


nope, i can't accept that logic. I want good doctors, politicians, cops, firemen, teachers, and baggers at the grocery store. i can't be all those things and be good at all of them. Where I can choose, I go to the good doctor and the grocery store with the good baggers. Where I can't make a personal choice, like with cops and firemen, I can and do demand more of the elected and non-elected officials.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

beowoulf90 said:


> I have to agree and change/add to what I said.
> 
> Once fired they should be hung! Of course only after they've had their day in court..
> 
> I never said they should be excused for their actions, in fact they should be held to a higher standard and their punishment should be harsher then an ordinary citizen..


OK, time for my pet peeve again...

I have no opinion on whether or not these cops should be hung, that's up to their wives and girlfriends. if they are to be killed by dangling them from a rope, they should be HANGED.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Huntinfamily said:


> As a former LEO I guess I will add my feelings to this. First off, Police should be held to a higher standard. We are not Cops only when on duty, we are cops 24/7. No matter where we are or what we are doing we are expected to be and act professional. Yes, law enforcement is a very very stressful job. That is why before starting the academy you are given a psych exam. People that cannot learn to think rationally in stressful situations have no reason being in law enforcement. When I went to work every shift I always reminded myself that I was putting my life in danger to protect the lives of my neighbors and to treat each and every person I dealt with the same way I would want my Wife, Mother or Son treated. I was only a Leo for a few years because I did not trust some of the other guys on my department. Many of them had the "I'm a cop and can do whatever I want" mentality. It is easy to see how they got like that. Some were bullies in high school and felt like with a badge they could still bully people. Others were bullied in school and used the badge as an excuse to get back at people. Me, I just love the part of the job where I got to help people. I hated arresting people. Sure, some people deserved to be arrested but with some ( like a teenager with a little weed) it was better to bring them home and tell their parents what they did wrong. By my department standards I was not a good cop. I didn't make a ton of arrests, I didn't write a load of tickets. I preferred to give people a second chance, stop and check in on our elderly residents, walk the halls of our local schools and talk to the students. You know, Andi Griffith type stuff. As a former Marine that saw way to much violence in war and being trained to think before acting in violent situations I was a lot more calm and collected in stressful situations than some of our other officers that had gone from college to the academy to patrolling the streets. I don't know what has gone wrong in law enforcement in the last few years to make many cops become cocky, arrogant cow rear ends, but I don't trust many anymore.


I feel police should be like you were.. more the Andy type... Not the Barney kind... 

I've had path crossings with some really good fair cops, but I've had a lot of other really bad instances...

I'm one of those people who will stand up for my rights when being stopped... You ask me if I have weapons or drugs and I will tell you the truth.... If I tell you no, then no I don't, but if you ask to search my vehicle after I give you an answer, then be prepared to call the dog to come sniff around... I've wasted a few hours of police time doing that... 

I've been asked where I was coming from or going to, and my standard answer is, "Sir, I'm under no legal obligation to divulge that information..."

Just those two things will quickly let you know what kind of cop you are dealing with... Most times it's ended up being a real pain because their attitudes and egos get the best of them.... 

I know my rights, and I ask that they not be stepped on... I exercise my rights to the extent the law allows, but when dealing with most cops any more, it's like a stampede all over you..

Maybe if more people knew their rights and asked they be respected instead of rolling over, then maybe some of the cops out there wouldn't be so pushy...


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

This quote from Thomas Jefferson might be posted more often, to the further explanation of a great many things. I post it here to shed some light on the present topic. Pay particular attention to the bolded portion.


"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.
We must make our election between economy and liberty
or profusion and servitude.
If we run into such debt, as that we must be taxed in our meat and
in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and
our amusements, for our calling and our creeds...
[we will] have no time to think,
no means of calling our miss-managers to account
*but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves
to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers...*
And this is the tendency of all human governments.
A departure from principle in one instance
becomes a precedent for [another ]...
till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery...
And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt.
Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression."

Regardless of why any individual might believe themselves to be signing on to any agency of force, riveting chains on the necks of their fellow sufferers is what the hiring principle is after, and that end is precisely what comes of such employment, period.

There are no stellar men of character among the ranks of law enforcement.

The best we can expect is an individual with somewhat benevolent intentions who is wholly mislead as to the base nature of his profession.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

Does anyone else see the similarities between Dormer and the hero in the movie V is for Vendetta? In both cases the populace is enjoying seeing the gov't get a bloody nose.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I told my wife the other day we've got a real life Rambo movie unfolding in front of our eyes..

I think it's BS the guy killed some innocent people, but he sure is bringing light to the corruptness to he LAPD... All the stuff I've seen out of them, they appear to be worse than the NYCPD..


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Forerunner said:


> The Police State in America has no grounding in the constitution.
> 
> They are troops, quartered among us, and the warnings against such a standing army should start making sense to the populace at large, about any time now.


Maybe we are just reaping what we have sown - all of us.

Law enforcement in America, would be 100% unnecessary, if people just obeyed _all _of the laws.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

plowjockey said:


> Maybe we are just reaping what we have sown - all of us.
> 
> Law enforcement in America, would be 100% unnecessary, if people just obeyed _all _of the laws.


even the unconstitutional ones? Are you saying the problem is NY is all those new criminals with 10 round magazines?


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

beowoulf90 said:


> Sorry! But no they won't!
> 
> They will do exactly what PJ has done..
> 
> ...


We just don't get it.

If cops are now "Frankensteins monster", they are monsters, _we_ helped create.

Cops are now aggressive, paranoid, well armed and trigger happy.

Guess what?

Criminals are aggressive, paranoid, well armed and trigger happy *ALSO*.

We've had two State Patrol Officers shot and killed, during routine traffic stops, in recent years. One by a someone with only a felony warrant and the other who just wanted to kill a cop, before "offing" himself, via gun.

I get stopped regularly, by State Patrol, for roadside commercial vehicle inspections.

Although they are Professional and usually very courteous, they always seem very jumpy and overly cautious, making sure I don't have something, I can hit them with.

Why is that?


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

plowjockey said:


> Maybe we are just reaping what we have sown - all of us.
> 
> Law enforcement in America, would be 100% unnecessary, if people just obeyed _all _of the laws.


Obeying _law_ is a simple matter.

Bowing to every statutory mandate for the purpose of avoidig a revenue-generating fleecing is a whole 'nuther issue.

But you have proven yourself incapable is distinguishing between the two, so enjoy those shackles.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

CesumPec said:


> nope, i can't accept that logic. I want good doctors, politicians, cops, firemen, teachers, and baggers at the grocery store. i can't be all those things and be good at all of them. Where I can choose, I go to the good doctor and the grocery store with the good baggers. Where I can't make a personal choice, like with cops and firemen, I can and do demand more of the elected and non-elected officials.


I can't compare any of the professions you listed, with the nasty job of a Cop, with except maybe a Politician, which proves my point.

We hate our Politicians, even often at the local levels, claiming that we have the higher moral ground, but instead of putting our money where our mouth is and doing that "better job", by running for office ourselves, we just say "no way would I want that lousy job" and just complain about what a bad jobs others do.

Maybe our Founding Gather thought that protecting our citizens and running the Government was a lousy job, but somebody good needed to do it.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

CesumPec said:


> even the unconstitutional ones? Are you saying the problem is NY is all those new criminals with 10 round magazines?



Not that I agree with it, but a broken law is a broken law, Constitutional or not.

We could have had _100 round_ magazines, no problem, if people were just shooting targets, instead of each other. Same with machine guns, in the past.

It is my absolute view, that if it were not for Aurora and Sandy Hook, there would be ZERO talk, about any gun control, during either Obama Administrations.

The actions of some, are ruining it for everyone else.

What else is new?


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

*head bowed in prayer*

Dear Father in Heaven......thank you _so much_ that PJ was not one of the "founding fathers"....... Amen.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Forerunner said:


> Obeying _law_ is a simple matter.
> 
> Bowing to every statutory mandate for the purpose of avoidig a revenue-generating fleecing is a whole 'nuther issue.
> 
> But you have proven yourself incapable is distinguishing between the two, so enjoy those shackles.


If it's simple, why doesn't everybody just do it?

Your preaching to the choir on your second part.

As a commercial truck driver, I have to watch my Ps and Qs constantly, concerning safety regulations and traffic laws, or I will lose a lot of money, my entire livelihood, or maybe my life and other's, as well.

I'm already in those "shackles", but not really enjoying them


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2013)

notbutanapron said:


> Correction. A badge _shouldn't _protect anyone from such error in judgement and abuse of authority.
> 
> I've dealt with good cops and I've dealt with bad cops. Shamefully, I never had a good cop when I needed one. Overall I'd say my experience has been: just like people, don't trust a single one until you've gotten to know them. I'm wary about cops in general though. Always thinking to myself, "What did you decide I did wrong NOW?" and I don't even do anything wrong!
> 
> ...


Most Department train in grouping center mass with 2 shot bursts. They usually only practice and or qualify twice a year. But you will find that police shootings usually show that the finger of the officer somehow decides unconsciously and continues to shot as an automatic response created by fear and or anger, only better training and hiring can overcome that response.


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

Plowjockey you may have picked the wrong profession. With the new


> tedious, stressful, dangerous and thankless job


defense you should consider becoming an attorney. What novel defense do you have for the police management who attribute the attempted murder of Mr. Perdue to mistaken identity? Mr. Dorner was driving a gray Nissan pickup truck, is a large black man of 270 pounds, Mr. Perdue was driving a black Honda Pickup truck, is a thin white man of 170 pounds. How is it possible to mistake one for the other truck or man?
If all we can hire are corrupt, incompetent police whose criminality we have to overlook, we would be better off without them.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

bjba said:


> Plowjockey you may have picked the wrong profession. With the new defense you should consider becoming an attorney. What novel defense do you have for the police management who attribute the attempted murder of Mr. Perdue to mistaken identity? Mr. Dorner was driving a gray Nissan pickup truck, is a large black man of 270 pounds, Mr. Perdue was driving a black Honda Pickup truck, is a thin white man of 170 pounds. How is it possible to mistake one for the other truck or man?
> If all we can hire are corrupt, incompetent police whose criminality we have to overlook, we would be better off without them.





> tedious, stressful, dangerous and thankless job


If an LAPD job, a great job, there should be a waiting for applicants, right?


Why don't you post a link to a story, if you expect someone to comment?

Was not this whole thread, about the quality of the LA Police Department and why they can't seem to get (and keep) "good cops"? Try to keep up. 

I never stated *once*, that Cops who do something wrong, should not be held accountable.

FWIW I'd be a Personal Injury Attorney, not one that represents, accused criminals. Like everybody else here, I want nothing to do with the dregs of society. 



> we would be better off without them


Careful what you wish for.

For better, or worse, Cops are about the only thing, between _us_ and _them_.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I've seen way too many people try and scam a personal injury.. I had a good friend that who worked for the same law firm I did, that all he did was collect evidence on people pulling injury scams.. He even had to go sky diving once to get on the plane with a guy skydiving who was claiming a permanent disability from a work injury.. Many Ambulance chasers are nothing but scam artists their selves because of how lucrative scamming the industry is ... 

Just pointing out facts.. Nothing is black or white...


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Forerunner said:


> *head bowed in prayer*
> 
> Dear Father in Heaven......thank you _so much_ that PJ was not one of the "founding fathers"....... Amen.


Every Patriot, that went against the Crown, knew there was a good chance, they could face the gallows.

I doubt, that it was a decision, that they took lightly.


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

Plowjockey: job conditions are no justification for any action other than resigning the job. My contention for the entire thread has been no one can justify criminal actions with poor job conditions. The thread is about criminal police actions not poor working conditions or any other "sympathy for the devil" feelings anyone might have. Every police department I am aware of hires adults who are capable of discerning legal from illegal and are in fact trained to know the difference. Anyone citizen, police, journalist, elected official and etc. who tries to justify criminal activity with poor environment, working conditions or subjective criteria are as lacking in scruples as the criminal.


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## Steve L. (Feb 23, 2004)

notbutanapron said:


> Out of curiosity, I noticed it's done but I can't recall if it's in America: if someone unloads a bullet and is of law enforcement, they have to empty the whole cartridge, right? Someone once told me that and I was like, "So what, send one guy out for everyone to shoot at while innocent people stand behind and then send everyone else out to kill the cops?"


notbutanapron, would you please re-phrase this in a manner that might be understood by someone other than yourself?


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

CesumPec said:


> OK, time for my pet peeve again...
> 
> I have no opinion on whether or not these cops should be hung, that's up to their wives and girlfriends. if they are to be killed by dangling them from a rope, they should be HANGED.


Well ain't you just a jar full of buttons!
Your just full of PB&J, I'd bet you our marter then the local tomcat and wilelyier...


Grammar Nazi! :smack

If I had been an English Major in school I might not be the draftsman/CADD Operator Estimator that I am today..

You may be able to say it eloquently and use all the words properly.
But I can draw it and show you exactly how it's built... Old School and new school...

:nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana:


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I was just reading that the LAPD is offering to give the ladies a new truck... 

OH WOW.. how generous of them...


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

simi-steading said:


> I was just reading that the LAPD is offering to give the ladies a new truck...
> 
> OH WOW.. how generous of them...


That's what they call "public relations". 

There will shurely be a lawsuit, where both, the ladies and their lawyer, will get a nice payday. 

That's how it works, out there.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm sure by the time they get done with their law suit those ladies could buy every single vehicle the LAPD has brand new from the factory...


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

plowjockey said:


> We just don't get it.
> 
> If cops are now "Frankensteins monster", they are monsters, _we_ helped create.
> 
> ...


Yet you continue to make excuses for their bad behavior..

Why is that?


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

Steve L. said:


> notbutanapron, would you please re-phrase this in a manner that might be understood by someone other than yourself?


Aww, thanks for suggesting I do so politely! :bored:

I was told by someone that in some countries [maybe even here] that when a police officer fires a single shot, he is expected to empty his whole gun of bullets before he stops firing. I see this as an incredibly stupid and dangerous practice, which is why I am not sure if it's true, which is why I am asking. However, this would explain why there was 40 darn bullets in the car other than 'trigger happiness'.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I was told by someone that in some countries [maybe even here] that when a police officer fires a single shot, he is *expected to* *empty his whole gun of bullets* before he stops firing


I wouldn't say it's "expected" , but it DOES happen far too often.

In a* REAL* defensive situtation I have no problem with that, but this case is sheer stupidity, and the officers should be FIRED 

There is NO EXCUSE for their actions


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

> Originally Posted by *plowjockey*
> _We just don't get it.
> 
> If cops are now "Frankensteins monster", they are monsters, we helped create.
> ...





beowoulf90 said:


> Yet you continue to make excuses for their bad behavior..
> 
> Why is that?


You answerd a question, with a question, so apparently, logical discussion goes, right out the window. 

but, since you "asked".

I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy, IMO of judging someone _else's _job performance and actions/reactions, based on *ZERO* facts, only "news" stories, which of course are always the God's TRUTH, when they tell _you_, what _you_ want to hear.

It also seem a bit hypocritical, IMO, to badmouth the job performance, of those who are willing to take jobs, that are so dangerous, tedious and thankless, that most of us, will never have the desire or much more needed, the guts, to take on.

I though the bible said something, about judging others. Oh well.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

> _If cops are now "Frankensteins monster", they are monsters, we helped create._


 I agree with that. WE have let them, the politicians, and a host of other things go way to far.



> I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy, IMO of judging someone _else's _job performance and actions/reactions, based on *ZERO* facts, only "news" stories, which of course are always the God's TRUTH, when they tell _you_, what _you_ want to hear.





> "TORRANCE, CA -- Two women were hospitalized after being attacked by police for driving a blue Toyota Tacoma. *Police were looking for a pickup truck of a different color, make, and model* with connection to the ex-LAPD officer suspected of murder.
> 
> Upon seeing this truck drive down a street receiving special police protection, they began unloading their weapons on sight. Reportedly the truck had its lights off while delivering papers.
> 
> There are almost 40 bullet holes visible in this picture. It is obviously *in a residential neighborhood*."


So the bullet holes and the women are a news story spin and not facts?


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

beowoulf90 said:


> Well ain't you just a jar full of buttons!
> Your just full of PB&J, I'd bet you our marter then the local tomcat and wilelyier...
> 
> 
> ...


OK, I'm not making a values judgment here, but I wouldn't be comfortable posting on a public site that I prefer my cops to be hung. If you are OK with that, good for you. :hysterical:

You can thank me later.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

plowjockey said:


> Maybe we are just reaping what we have sown - all of us.
> 
> Law enforcement in America, would be 100% unnecessary, if people just obeyed _all _of the laws.


if Islamo-terroists bomb our buildings, America is at fault. If cops shoot innocent people, America is at fault. You are making my :spinsmiley:


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Pearl B said:


> I agree with that. WE have let them, the politicians, and a host of other things go way to far.
> 
> 
> So the bullet holes and the women are a news story spin and not facts?


For sure, but for the whole story, who knows what the situation was? Was a command given to stop, that for whatever reason, was not heeded? Was there a thrid passenger that matched the killers description, who jumped out and ran? Happens all of the time and victims will lie in a heartbeat (as will the cops).

Those neighborhoods, _normally_ keep cops on the ready, let alone having a well trained cop killer, on the loose.

Here is another example, of a usual day, in paradise..

*LAPD gang officer fired upon while driving home from work *



> Los Angeles police are looking for a black sedan that *opened fire on a gang officer as he drove home from work early Sunday morning,* sources said.
> The sedan drove alongside the officerâs car in the northbound lanes of the 5 Freeway between Los Feliz Boulevard and Colorado Street *when someone inside fired multiple shots about 5:40 a.m.*, according to sources familiar with the investigation.
> *The bullets struck the side panel of the vehicle but the officer was not hit*.
> 
> ...


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

CesumPec said:


> if Islamo-terroists bomb our buildings, America is at fault. If cops shoot innocent people, America is at fault. You are making my :spinsmiley:


The discussion was about Americans, requiring Law enforcement, because they are breaking laws. 

We break the speed limit, or run a red light, then complain, or maybe even chew out the Cop, when he/she issues, us a traffic citation, because it's not "fair".

Gang bangers think it's just fine to shoot each other, or anybody else that get in the line of fire.

Go figure


Blaming America, for foreign terrorist adctivity are your words, not mine. We don't really expect them to behave anyway.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

The problem I have with writing me a ticket when I am 10mph over the speed limit is, most times I see them running 20 over. This area I'm in now is the worst I've ever seen for seeing cops blatantly break speed limits and traffic laws... But then again, I've watched people run red lights in front of them and the cop not bat an eye... 

I can't even count how many times I've seen them roll up to a light, then flick on their lights and run the red... I've even had then try pull up in the left turn lane next to me in unmarked cars in DC, then when I wouldn't let them in thinking they were a regular Joe trying to cut the line, they would flick on their lights to make me let them in...

I'm sorry, but cops are just as corrupt, if not more corrupt when it comes to laws than regular citizens.... The other post I've made with statistics about how cops per capita are busted more than regular citizens for violent crime hasn't drawn a single post... go figure... 

Biggest friggin hypocrites I've ever seen any more... Didn't used to be that way, but it sure has gotten that way over the last 20 years or so. 

That's what chaps my donkey... I blame my government for allowing them to become that way..


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

plowjockey said:


> You answerd a question, with a question, so apparently, logical discussion goes, right out the window.
> 
> but, since you "asked".
> 
> ...



So you know the facts, thus you make excuses for their actions.. 

It seems they fired on a vehicle without ascertaining who was in it or even if those in it were a threat...
I'm beginning to believe if they pulled you and your family over for a traffic violation you would condone them opening fire because the make of your vehicle was used in some crime..

But you would be correct I don't have the facts, but please share your wisdom as to why they fired on to women who were no threat to them..

Let me guessed, they were stressed out, or they missed their morning coffee and doughnuts...

Yea, just more excuses for wrongful and illegal behaviour...

These psychopaths need to be admitted into a psyc clinic and given electro shock therapy.. Yea I know that is cruel and unusual treatment. But they have earned it by firing on an vehicle without knowing who was in it.. This is no difference then any of the school shooters or bombers who don't value innocent life...

Yes I know they were stressed or paranoid..

You may believe and accept that..

I don't!

The difference is I'm not going out and shooting innocent people, while they are.. And they hide their crimes behind a badge...

Oh and as to the bible reference..

I'm Pagan!

I also guess I'm not allowed an opinion since I'm not a liberal...Typical!


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

CesumPec said:


> OK, I'm not making a values judgment here, but I wouldn't be comfortable posting on a public site that I prefer my cops to be hung. If you are OK with that, good for you. :hysterical:
> 
> You can thank me later.



Yet you said nothing about my post grammatically.
Originally Posted by *beowoulf90*  
Well ain't you just a jar full of buttons!
Your just full of PB&J, I'd bet you our marter then the local tomcat and wilelyier...

"Your" should be "you're"
"our" should be "are"
"marter" should be "smarter"
"wilelyier" should be "wilier"

And no corrections from the grammar Nazi..:hysterical:

Oh and how we like our officers isn't any of your concerns.

Just like a button jar, it has some red button, some blue buttons, some wooden buttons and some pewter buttons..

But never enough of one type and color to button a shirt...ound:


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> was merely pointing out the *hypocrisy*, IMO of judging someone _else's _job performance and actions/reactions, based on *ZERO* facts, only "news" stories, which of course are always the God's TRUTH, when they tell _you_, what _you_ want to hear.


Why do you keep making *excuses* for what they did?
If they can't CONTROL themselves any better than that, they shouldn't be on the streets *at all,* much less ARMED


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

beowoulf90 said:


> Yet you said nothing about my post grammatically.
> Originally Posted by *beowoulf90*
> Well ain't you just a jar full of buttons!
> Your just full of PB&J, I'd bet you our marter then the local tomcat and wilelyier...
> ...


Pretty much, i only correct minor grammar errors when I'm trying to torque someone's attitude. Eye make weigh two mini miss takes too ficks you're grammer ann spellin. But I really think I'm providing an educational moment for the hung vs hang thing and now you have an easy answer if anyone ever asks you if you would rather be shot or hung.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

Beo and Bear, perhaps you'll agree that we meet PJ halfway. I propose that we agree that if the cops had a good reason to fire 40 rounds at two innocent and defenseless white women when they were looking for a large black man, we will apologize for not being more sensitive to the plight of the abused trigger happy cops. 

And in exchange PJ agrees that if none of the scenarios he made up from thin air, like a mysterious, threatening, and missing 3rd passenger that the cops have failed to mention, then he will agree the cops should be tried and sentenced to 20 years in prison for reckless endangerment, negligent discharge of a gun, and assault & battery.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

CesumPec said:


> Beo and Bear, perhaps you'll agree that we meet PJ halfway. I propose that we agree that if the cops had a good reason to fire 40 rounds at two innocent and defenseless white women when they were looking for a large black man, we will apologize for not being more sensitive to the plight of the abused trigger happy cops.
> 
> And in exchange PJ agrees that if none of the scenarios he made up from thin air, like a mysterious, threatening, and missing 3rd passenger that the cops have failed to mention, then he will agree the cops should be tried and sentenced to 20 years in prison for reckless endangerment, negligent discharge of a gun, and assault & battery.



Make it 25 years in prison and I'll agree....


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## Steve L. (Feb 23, 2004)

notbutanapron said:


> Aww, thanks for suggesting I do so politely! :bored:
> 
> I was told by someone that in some countries [maybe even here] that when a police officer fires a single shot, he is expected to empty his whole gun of bullets before he stops firing. I see this as an incredibly stupid and dangerous practice, which is why I am not sure if it's true, which is why I am asking. However, this would explain why there was 40 darn bullets in the car other than 'trigger happiness'.


Well, I had to ask, because in your post (_if someone unloads a bullet and is of law enforcement, they have to empty the whole cartridge_), you were not very clear. 
You were apparently using 'cartridge' to mean 'magazine'. A 'cartridge' is what you called a 'bullet'.

I can't speak to how LAPD officers are trained, but completely emptying your firearm is often tactically unsound. It's hard to believe that they're actually trained to do it that way.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Again there is something wrong going on here. The cops want this guy dead. He knows something and they don't want it heard. Why in the world would cops open fire on a vehicle that isn't even the right make, Twice. Without checking it out. Either the cops are totally out of control, and I think it is quite possible, and it is what we have to look forward to. Or there is something sinister going on with this case. It is a sign of the times.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

beowoulf90 said:


> Make it 25 years in prison and I'll agree....


No argument that PJ is an insufferable nuisance, but don't you think 25 years might be a little steep ?


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

simi-steading said:


> That's what chaps my donkey... I blame my government for allowing them to become that way..


 
I would of said I blame my goverment for makeing them to become that way.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

davel745 said:


> Again there is something wrong going on here. The cops want this guy dead. He knows something and they don't want it heard. Why in the world would cops open fire on a vehicle that isn't even the right make, Twice. Without checking it out. Either the cops are totally out of control, and I think it is quite possible, and it is what we have to look forward to. Or there is something sinister going on with this case. It is a sign of the times.


I agree with this completely.. .Seems the media is being side tracked by the shiny trinket of catching the guy, and isn't investigating any of the guy's complaints and accusations he wrote in his manifesto... 

Not much different than this about shooting up these ladies... We'll never know the real story because no one is asking the hard questions... 

Any more all the news agencies do is report what happened.. No more investigative reporting.. no more digging to get the facts... I wonder what is really being hidden about this whole fiasco..


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Let's not forget...... a people will suffer the precise manner of rulership that they create for themselves. 

There's no official to blame for the big picture in this country.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Forerunner said:


> No argument that PJ is an insufferable nuisance, but don't you think 25 years might be a little steep ?


Wellllllllll!

Ok, Make it 25 years for these crooked officers only..


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

FRY THEM.




Nevada said:


> It will be judged an honest mistake, but the City will still be responsible for civil damages. This will be the kind of lawsuit that people can retire from.


These are the same cops that will write me a ticket for being to close to a lane line or being in the wrong lane AFTER they do something stupid that forces me out there fore safety...........FRY THEM!




simi-steading said:


> So my question is, if the cops are shooting at you for no good reason, can you legally shoot back to defend yourself?


NOPE. Remember THEY ARE THE LAW.

I have always thought that the punishments for breaking the law should be 10 times normal for cops and 100 times normal for those that write the laws.
Just seems fair.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

plowjockey said:


> For better, or worse, Cops are about the only thing, between _us_ and _them_.


 LOL Only the sheep will believe that.


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## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

fantasymaker said:


> LOL Only the sheep will believe that.


 
:thumb::thumb::thumb:

.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

> Originally Posted by plowjockey
> 
> For better, or worse, Cops are about the only thing, between us and them.


I've yet to find a situation where the middleman has been in my best interest...


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

plowjockey said:


> The discussion was about Americans, requiring Law enforcement, because they are breaking laws.
> 
> We break the speed limit, or run a red light, then complain, or maybe even chew out the Cop, when he/she issues, us a traffic citation, because it's not &quot;fair&quot;.
> 
> ...


 The title of the thread is "Police shoot wrong vehicle" the thread is about criminal police action. Plowjockey you have been all over the spectrum and failed to address the subject. You have put out red herring after red herring and so many here have taken the bait hook line and sinker. The thread is about criminal police action not Americans breaking laws and thus needing policing. The police have become little more than enforcers for the oppressors. According to the Supreme Court the only thing between criminals and you is you.


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