# Contraception, pregnancy and childbirth in SHTF situations



## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Ok a bit of a spin off from the "Creative Barter Items" thread. Tinknal posted "contraception" as a barter item.


So got me thinking... *well other than how long various medical or OTC contraceptions actually last*... what do you plan or prep for these possibilities?


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## ghmerrill (Feb 22, 2011)

Raise sheep...

Ok, NOT for that! 

Didn't they make condoms out of sheep intestinal membrane at some point?


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

ghmerrill said:


> Raise sheep...
> 
> Ok, NOT for that!
> 
> Didn't they make condoms out of sheep intestinal membrane at some point?



Ooh we need a "Homestead Condom" course! ound:


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

This should be interesting. :teehee:



.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Well, I suppose a good thermometer and instructions for the "rhythm method" would be a good idea. 

Midwifery would be a good skill to have.

I've read where old time prostitutes would use lemon slices like a diaphragm, something about citric acid killing sperm............. (not to mention that lemony-fresh smell)


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## chupang (Nov 18, 2002)

my dog just got a coffee shower,you guys kill me.I remember something about white vinegar,and or an herb as a day after kinda thing,but needed to be used for a week or more...............crs sorry


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Post-collapse, you'll need all the kids you can muster.


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## SCKYHWoman (Oct 10, 2008)

remind me not to have mouth full of coffee while reading


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Ernie, sorry, you aren't the one pooping them out. It can mean death for a woman with a small pelvis. If nutrition and living conditions aren't good, stress of a child could put one over the edge. A child is either the greatest blessing or burden possible, depending on the situation. Not being mean here, but contraception is a very valid topic, imo. 

Often wondered how women of ill repute avoided babies galore in times past.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

That's an ad hominem fallacy and meaningless. Because I'm a man I can't have an opinion in this matter? 

We are talking about having children in a society where medical support has been removed. Where nutrition and living conditions aren't good.

You just described 90% of human history. And what did they do? They had as many children as possible. In fact, many societies had so many surplus children that they sacrificed them on pagan altars or inside great fiery statues in order to get rid of them. (We have the same thing, but we call it abortion and claim it's a medical procedure.)

If you can look past the smear on the lens that feminism has put there, you'll see that 90% of human history and almost all of the "undeveloped" world has already figured out a solution to this "problem" of having children.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

I once read a textbook entitled, Sex In History. I was in high school at the time so anything with the word "sex" in the title was pretty exciting! Any way, the book mentioned that in some Asian countries, a piece of rock salt was inserted to prevent pregnancy. The theory being that sperm could not withstand the excessive salinity.

There were also techniques used by Chinese men to divert seminal fluids into their urine. This wasn't due to a desire to prevent conception but was to prevent ejaculation which was seen as something that could weaken a man physically.

Since I'm 41, my solution a couple of years ago was to get my tubes tied. I don't want to give birth during a SHTF situation if I can help it. My kids are grown and I really don't want to bring any more children into a world that has gone to Hades in a handbasket. While a child would eventually provide additional physical labor, they also drain the family resources for a while until you can put them to work.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

Get fixed beforehand. LOL!

And for the record, should the world collapse, I, for one, will be mustering no more children. I don't even want to muster them with the convenience of disposable diapers and gerber in a jar, what in heaven's name would make me want to muster them when I have to wash cloth diapers in the creek and nurse for three years? No. Thank you!


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

tab said:


> Ernie, sorry, you aren't the one pooping them out. It can mean death for a woman with a small pelvis. If nutrition and living conditions aren't good, stress of a child could put one over the edge. A child is either the greatest blessing or burden possible, depending on the situation. Not being mean here, but contraception is a very valid topic, imo.
> 
> Often wondered how women of ill repute avoided babies galore in times past.


Yes.
A tiny, tiny voice in the back of my head is one of the reasons that I did not have another child. It was fear.
I can build beautiful, huge, strong children and pregnancy is easy as can be... but I cannot birth a child. They just don't drop down. They stay up near my lungs forever, even after very long labors.
It would be certain death.

And what if I were pregnant and TSHTF. Irrational, I know. I could get smacked by a truck today (knock on wood), but still.. It was a private, personal consideration. I was a pansy. I was a scaredy-cat and it shames me to have been that irrational. 

Contraception and childbirth is a life or death consideration for many. Rape after SHTF would be just terrible in more ways than the obvious.
There were reasons that herbal concoctions and methods were sought for ending pregnancies and for contraception for thousands of years etc..

Belive me.. I ponder it.


And if they would just let you line up and get fixed, I would now be the first in line. Oddly.. insurance companies wnat to charge me outrageous rates because of the pregnancy issue, but won't toss in sterilization in order for me to be a better risk. Sigh.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Just say _NO_!!:yawn:


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Forerunner said:


> Just say _NO_!!:yawn:


That would have to be the plan after a while.. and pray that no zombie hoardes pillaged....
Thankfully I am getting on in years.....sorta...


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

There's always ultra poor personal hygiene..... :shrug:


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

In a true SHTF situation many will be "too tired" or "under nourished" in the beginning to need to worry about such situations, lol. 

There are many physical barriers that can be stocked....condoms, diaphragms, etc. Yes, my mom mentioned my grandfather had a sheep intestine condom...don't ask why that conversation came up, lol. 

WARNING VERY TOUCHY SUBJECT AHEAD....abortion was legalized in the 70's....that doesn't mean it didn't happen before then. There are many people around that still know how that is done. I'm not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing....just stating a fact, so let's not take THIS into a debate, please.


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## TheMrs (Jun 11, 2008)

I do believe that the opportunity for conception would drop because of couples just being too tired from the extra workload. However, I also believe that couples without Netflix and cable tv would eventually turn to each other as a form of entertainment or recreation. So I would expect pregnancies to drop at the beginning but rise significantly as time went on.

For us, it would be my job to recognize my body's signs of fertility and share the fertile/non-fertile times with DH. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a thermometer on hand even though fertility can be determined without one. I think there would be a lot more "be fruitful and multiply" going on in a SHTF situation than there is currently.

I agree that midwifery skills would be an awesome prep skill to have in case delivery doesn't go normally. To be totally honest though, the majority of deliveries do go smoothly when God's design is allowed to go on uninterrupted. On those rare occasions when things don't go smoothly though, midwifery skills would be invaluable.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Soap was a big improvement.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

ROFLOL!! Foreunner! I'm sure the hygiene AND the fact that everyone would be trying to survive would honestly lessen the amt. of s*x going on by a little bit. 

I'm with Ernie on this one though. Also birth is not usually life or death. People make it into a big deal and get this intervention or that which leads to more intervention ect. Yes occasionally something goes wrong but nowadays many problems are caused by early induction, epi's ect. The antibiotics came out and really made a difference with things like postpartum infection ect. but people know more about germs and cleanliness too now. ( A good reason to opt to stay out of a hospital for birth actually) America actually ranks TERRIBLY for neonatal mortality even though we have all this medicine and babies mostly in the hospital. 
All that to say is normally all you need to birth a baby without med. help is a pregnant woman, water helps, a clean scissors if you are cutting the cord, some blankets and possibly a nose sucking bulb. We didn't even need the nose sucking bulb...It's nice to have one other person there to catch the baby  
Off my soapbox now. Sorry I'm schooling to be a birthworker and have a fair amount of birthing experience so this is something I've looked into extensively lol.


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## Elffriend (Mar 2, 2003)

Everyone should have a copy of Toni Weschler's "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" and a couple of good thermometers. You can use it to help you avoid pregnancy or to help time things for optimal chances at conception.


I edited to add something - don't count on malnutrition doing much of anything to prevent conception for a long time. Look at all the famine situations around the world and people still having children. It isn't so much nutrition as body fat level. A woman's body fat ratio has to drop drastically for ovulation to stop.


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

chickenista said:


> Yes.
> A tiny, tiny voice in the back of my head is one of the reasons that I did not have another child. It was fear.
> I can build beautiful, huge, strong children and pregnancy is easy as can be... but I cannot birth a child. They just don't drop down. They stay up near my lungs forever, even after very long labors.
> It would be certain death.


Ditto! 5 kids, as long as 44weeks, huge babies, no diabetes, all c-sections. They never drop, you don't have a baby.


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

Elffriend said:


> Everyone should have a copy of Toni Weschler's "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" and a couple of good thermometers. You can use it to help you avoid pregnancy or to help time things for optimal chances at conception.


I second the book recommendation. After I read it I thought, "Why didn't anyone ever tell me this?"


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## Pam6 (Apr 9, 2009)

Abstinence
Rhythm method
I am all for having more babies though! 
(In my case if I would LOSE weight my fertility would INCREASE!) 

Wild carrot seeds: http://www.sisterzeus.com/QALrobinbennett.pdf

Taking Charge of Your Fertility


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

LOL I made childbirth look like a day at the beach....seriously one or two pushes and done...and I'm not a big framed person by any stretch...but apparently I stretch well. I wish now that I'd have had my kids at home...and had a couple more but I'm pretty sure I'm done at 40...but we haven't used and "contraception" other than body rhythm in 16 years...
I'm always amazed by women who whine and carry on about how hard/painful "labor" is....I set my mind to a place and kept my eye on the prize and got busy...
Animals don't cry out for drugs when they go into labor and often do it unassisted...when did we get so above the nature of nature?

I could be a midwife but probably wouldn't do well with whiners...


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## hurryiml8 (Apr 15, 2009)

How difficult could the "at home vasectomy be"? It could be a new source of income or barter service in a fallen world. I'm sure I could do it. Just step right up.
Karen


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2011)

*A Book for Midwives*
http://www.hesperian.org/mm5/mercha..._Code=HB&Product_Code=B090R&Category_Code=ENG









*Where Women Have No Doctor*
http://www.hesperian.org/mm5/mercha...e_Code=HB&Product_Code=B080&Category_Code=ENG

There is knowledge out there for anyone with the initiative to go look for it.

I've had the midwives book in my collection for years. Need to order the _Where Women Have No Doctor_ book. Have many of the other Hesperian books already.

No need for guesswork or ignorance. There is knowledge out there if you look for it.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

Don't count on being done at 40, I didn't have my first until I was 40! Both kids were c-sections since I don't go into labor at all - no softening, no dilation, no nothing!

Wonder how well my goat & cow midwifery skills would transfer over to humans.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Green cheerios.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

Cyngbaeld said:


> Green cheerios.


fruit loops? :happy2:


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

ne prairiemama said:


> fruit loops? :happy2:


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

Well, since no one else has mentioned it I guess I will.

The withdrawal method.

It's not as ineffective as you've been led to believe. The biggest objection to this method is always that there are some sperm in pre-ejaculatory fluid. This idea comes from a small study of 50 men where sperm was found in TWO of the men's pre-ejaculatory fluid. In one man the sperm was dead and in the other it was badly clumped with no motility. 

There are a couple simple rules of engagement to keep in mind:

1. The man is responsible for this method and must have excellent control. There are some men out there for whom this method is just not going to be adequate.

2. Once the gun goes off, you're done! You can't go back for seconds because at this point there is sperm in the urethra. The party is over until the man urinates which kills the sperm still hanging around.

My husband and I have been using this method exclusively for the past 7 years with no oopsies. And I'm scary fertile.

Just thought I'd throw that option out there.


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## Elffriend (Mar 2, 2003)

mpillow said:


> I'm always amazed by women who whine and carry on about how hard/painful "labor" is....I set my mind to a place and kept my eye on the prize and got busy...
> Animals don't cry out for drugs when they go into labor and often do it unassisted...when did we get so above the nature of nature?


Maybe you were lucky. Maybe you have a higher than normal tolerance for pain. Maybe you have a wider pelvis and optimally positioned babies. Maybe you had birth attendants who really knew what they were doing and not just following standard of care.

We got away from nature when pregnancy became a medical event. When they started putting women to bed and strapping them to monitors. When time limits for both pregnancy and labor were established and anything outside the norm was hastened with drugs and other medical interventions. When women started being forced to labor and push on their backs for the ease and convenience of the doctor.


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## Teri (Jan 13, 2003)

DH and I have been practicing natural family planning for most of our marriage (28 years). I understand it works well for folks with better self-control.
Teri (mom of 7)


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## wagvan (Jan 29, 2011)

LOL at the green cheerios.

Generally, I feel like a slacker around here. I love my Coke Classic, fast food, am not living on a farm (although we are trying to get our 1/3 small town acre to a good sustainable place with fruit trees, plants and gardens) and are a LONG ways away from a year of supplies or having all of our basic emergency stuff in place.

But for this we are SET. We have 7 kids, all of them I have pulled out of my body myself, and my last was born at home with a birth tub and a CNM (that is certified nurse midwife) but in reality she is there mainly for that one in a million something going wrong. Labor and birth at home is SOOO much easier and nicer. You can get comfy and stay busy getting things done until it is time to push, it is much easier to labor if you are up and doing things rather than laying in a hospital bed. There are people who NEED to birth in a hospital, but for a healthy mom and baby I strongly believe that birthing at home is the best way to be. Last baby was a couple hours, start to holding him, He was 10#6oz and came out with his arm by his face and was so fast he didn't even turn. (babies birthing are like a lock in a key hole, their head births one way, and then they spin to get the body out, its pretty neat!) It was an easy pain free labor and birth and no tears, no issues. (Don't be jealous, because although most of my labors are 2 hours at most, I have had a couple of posterior babies with 2 days of awful back labor.) I feel very confidant that hubby and I could birth at home alone, no problems. Because I have read so much I feel pretty confidant to know how to handle most issues that would come along with a birth. (But I am also smart enough to know how valuable a skilled practitioner in those situation) 

I practice the continuum concept of parenting http://www.continuum-concept.org/cc_defined.html

Part of that is ecological breastfeeding which includes;keeping baby close, breastfeeding on cue (day and night), using breastfeeding to comfort your baby, breastfeeding in a lying-down position for naps and at night and using no bottles or pacifiers. Ecological breastfeeding is huge in the LAM (lactational ammenorhea method) of birth control. In the first 6 months it is more reliable than condoms. http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/fertility.html I can usually go 18 mo to 2 yrs before my cycles return. Then we practice NFP. But I don't bother with temping (mainly because it is not terribly reliable when you are practicing ecological breastfeeding because you are waking at night to nurse) I go mostly by cervical fluid changes. The Billings Method is the most well known way of doing this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billings_ovulation_method . The Creighton Method is a variation of this. (I want to learn about it...) I also would highly recommend Toni Weschlers TCOYF book, even if you don't plan to use it for contraception. Great information about knowing your body, no matter what stage of life you are in. Lunaception goes right along with it: http://www.tcoyf.com/forums/t/3301.aspx and http://www.suite101.com/content/the-full-moons-pull-on-fertility-a189536 And as far as efficacy, we have gotten pregnant on just about every method of birth control, properly used. The only think that has been effective for us is NFP, although truth be told, we are not good about abstinance during fertile times :tmi: so we use condoms, but now I am thinking we should do some bulk buys. Would *could* do abstinence during fertile times, but who wants to?

Weaning that is child led (although honestly near the end they are getting mommy encouraged at our house...) goes right along with this and my babies nurse to 3 or 4 and I wear my babies and go about my work. A babies whose needs are being met at the breast and being worn by its mother will really not be that big of a drag on the adults in post SHTF world. Babies raised like that rarely cry unless something is really wrong. (There was a great article about babies in Africa who are raised basically this way who rarely cry. I'll try to find it...) 

I have also never used baby food. My babies nurse until they are ready for table food and then they eat nutrient dense, soft finger food like bananas, cooked sweet potato, avacado chopped into finger sized pieces to start. I never "feed" my babies (unless we are out and the food or place is not child friendly like soup, then I will feed them or feed them off of my plate) they feed themselves from when they start table food, a part of this is we wait for a child's signs that they are ready for food like the ability to sit unassisted and a pincer grasp. There are lots of reasons for this in a SHTF scenario, no ti mention IRL; the countries with the best infant mortality rates breastfed exclusively for 1 year or more and breastmilk was the largest part of the diet for the first 2-3 years. Babies have a reverse swallow until at least 9 months of age, something God designed to protect babies from ingesting dangerous substances. Babies don't even have the enzymes to digest foods until 4-6 months at the very earliest and that most enzymes aren't manufactured until after age 1, therefore most foods cannot be digested at all. I read how many more allergies come from babies eating certain foods before age 1 and how eating htem after age 1 or 2 could keep them from getting allergic ever.


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## wagvan (Jan 29, 2011)

For childbirth, I highly recommend anything by Ina Mae Gaskin.


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## wildhorse (Oct 22, 2006)

RedTartan said:


> Well, since no one else has mentioned it I guess I will.
> 
> The withdrawal method.



:umno: Didn't work that's how my son came to be.


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## wagvan (Jan 29, 2011)

RedTartan said:


> Well, since no one else has mentioned it I guess I will.
> 
> The withdrawal method.
> 
> ...


I'd love to hear more about this and it efficacy. My girlfriend just had a pull and pray baby, the day before yesterday, but we determined that the problem was that they are atheists and thus had not practiced the pray half of the equation. LOL


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## bourbonred (Feb 27, 2008)

Cyngbaeld said:


> Green cheerios.


Yep, we got some of those! I can get them on a calf if someone else sits on the head and shoulders. I wonder if a male would stand still...


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## Smalltowngirl (Mar 28, 2010)

bourbonred said:


> Yep, we got some of those! I can get them on a calf if someone else sits on the head and shoulders. I wonder if a male would stand still...



Why do you think preppers store plenty of whiskey?? :run::run:


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

Teri said:


> DH and I have been practicing natural family planning for most of our marriage (28 years). I understand it works well for folks with better self-control.
> Teri (mom of 7)


I hear it works better for people who don't mind having 7 kids. :gaptooth:


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

hurryiml8 said:


> How difficult could the "at home vasectomy be"? It could be a new source of income or barter service in a fallen world. I'm sure I could do it. Just step right up.
> Karen


:rock: :banana: :rock:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

wildhorse said:


> :umno: Didn't work that's how my son came to be.


That's how all 5 of my kids came to be. 

I clearly fall in the wrong category. The shame.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Ok, had ds in short order. Told dh next one would be birthed at home. There was not a next for a multitude of reasons. For me, any bigger baby and it would not have come out. Just the way it is. Usually size of the baby can be judged before birth so if there had been a next, would have had an idea if it would come out!

No Ernie, did not mean that you weren't entitled to an opinion. Just that sometimes child birth goes terribly wrong. I remember watching the vet piecemeal two calves out of a cow. It left quite an impression. (Do I need to offer to bake a pie?)

I believe we were given common sense for a reason. There have heen times in history where the last thing a woman wanted was a baby, ie the concentation camps, some of the experiences I have read are heart wrenching. Viet Nam is another, tales that turned my stomach.

Guess this whole answer hinges on how bad tshtf. 

That said, the Where There Is No Doctor are good reading. 

I read some time ago that women used to use a clean sponge, would have been a natural sponge then, tie a ribbon on it and us it like a diaphragm. Wonder if lemon juice or vinegar would cut bacterial growth as well as be hostile to sperm.


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

Ernie said:


> That's how all 5 of my kids came to be.
> 
> I clearly fall in the wrong category. The shame.


Well, my husband is a god among men 

I just wanted everyone to know that there was a free method that works very well for some. Seven years of success and we do the whole homebirth, family bed, nursing on demand, no pacifiers, etc. and my cycles still returned 12 months postpartum. My children are all 21 months apart (4 kids.) For some women the lactation method doesn't work long enough. But I'm glad it works for some of you


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

wagvan said:


> I'd love to hear more about this and it efficacy. My girlfriend just had a pull and pray baby, the day before yesterday, but we determined that the problem was that they are atheists and thus had not practiced the pray half of the equation. LOL


LOL. I don't want to get too graphic, but odds are he waited too long... And I'll leave that right there. It could be a learned skill. Perhaps a condom could be used to figure out exactly when is the right time without any ill effects. 

I know most people would not use this method unless it was a SHTF scenario, but if a disaster struck and you only have X number of pills/condoms- start practicing  

We opted to go this route because I didn't want to subject myself or my husband to surgery, I didn't want to take pills because I try to limit chemical exposure, and I'm too lazy to chart or observe mucus. So here we are. We also have a great marriage so should this method fail us, it wouldn't be a total disaster... Though I would not be happy! I'm 35 and praying for menopause to come quickly.


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

Natural Family Planning - see ccli.org. There are sympto-thermal methods of understanding your fertility that are very effective - you track temperatures, mucous signs and cervical signs.


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## Smalltowngirl (Mar 28, 2010)

There are all sorts of informative posts here on fertility & birth control using all natural methods.

http://www.healingwiseforum.com/viewforum.php?f=24


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

wagvan, amen lol! cept' i've got 8 lol (Hey that means with you & I and Ernie combined we have 20 dc! We could take over Mahahaha LOL )


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

tab said:


> No Ernie, did not mean that you weren't entitled to an opinion. Just that sometimes child birth goes terribly wrong. I remember watching the vet piecemeal two calves out of a cow. It left quite an impression. (Do I need to offer to bake a pie?)


No problem, no pie needed. I will render an apology. I was in a very cranky mood this morning and I took your statement to mean something you clearly didn't mean.

I have fretted and worried and agonized at the bedside of each of the births of my five children and we've been blessed with absolutely flawless births. For our fifth child (3 months old now) my wife was in labor for all of 5 minutes. All home births with a midwife. God has extended His watchful hand over my family.

But I am not unaware of the difficulties and potential problems. It is a very scary time for both mother AND father. Not even when they have been pulling me from burning wreckage have I been as frightened as when my wife comes to me at the tail end of a pregnancy and says, "It's time." 

However in a post-technological world, some mothers are going to die doing what comes naturally ... giving birth. Just as some fathers are going to die going out to gather food or die protecting their families.

We have to embrace this fact. We embrace it. We own it. The fear of it can no longer touch us. It is what it is and no amount of wishing can change it.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

jlrbhjmnc said:


> ... you track temperatures, mucous signs and cervical signs.


Mucous signs! Ah ... romance is in the air.


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## Teri (Jan 13, 2003)

RedTartan said:


> Well, my husband is a god among men
> 
> I just wanted everyone to know that there was a free method that works very well for some. Seven years of success and we do the whole homebirth, family bed, nursing on demand, no pacifiers, etc. and my cycles still returned 12 months postpartum. My children are all 21 months apart (4 kids.) For some women the lactation method doesn't work long enough. But I'm glad it works for some of you



Yup, same here, but my fertility returned at 4-6 months. I once asked my NFP-only, homeopathic doctor why this was so, and he snorted and said, "Just lucky, I guess!"


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

Cyn, I'm thinking most dhs would be strongly opposed to those LOL! :runforhills:


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Dare I mention..urm............other available apertures..................?


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

tinknal said:


> Dare I mention..urm............other available apertures..................?


:shocked: :run:


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

I hesitate to point this out....but even modern birth control isn't 100%.

:tmi:

My DD (who is 10) was a big surprise. We were properly using condoms when she was conceived. No evidence of leaking at the time, no nothing :shrug:.

When the SHTF, even if you DID have a bunch of condoms stockpiled that were in date, there is still close to a 20% chance (IIRC) that you will become pregnant while using one.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Thread hit! I'm punching out!


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

bluemoonluck said:


> I hesitate to point this out....but even modern birth control isn't 100%.
> 
> :tmi:
> My DD (who is 10) was a big surprise. We were properly using condoms when she was conceived. No evidence of leaking at the time, no nothing :shrug:..


Ayup!
That is how we ended up a family too.....
Never, ever trust a condom. Tis folly.


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## AR Transplant (Mar 20, 2004)

The natural sponge might seem "cool" or natural. But I have to warn you that I almost lost a friend to toxic shock syndrome when she was using an OTC sponge type of BC. 

We never hear of TSS very much, but it is still life threatening.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

Thanks alot tinknal, against my better judgement I looked that word up.... :kung::smack:tmi: LOL!


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

ne prairiemama said:


> Thanks alot tinknal, against my better judgement I looked that word up.... :kung::smack:tmi: LOL!


Glad I could expand your vocabulary.


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

Ernie said:


> Mucous signs! Ah ... romance is in the air.


LOL. Ya, I once read a really REALLY funny essay by a young husband. He wrote about his reaction to the pre-marriage class on NFP and what he told his buddies when they asked him what he was learning... you can imagine the responses!


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## Gena (May 25, 2011)

Elffriend said:


> *Everyone should have a copy of Toni Weschler's "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" and a couple of good thermometers. You can use it to help you avoid pregnancy or to help time things for optimal chances at conception.*
> 
> 
> I edited to add something - don't count on malnutrition doing much of anything to prevent conception for a long time. Look at all the famine situations around the world and people still having children. It isn't so much nutrition as body fat level. A woman's body fat ratio has to drop drastically for ovulation to stop.


Every woman, period, should own a copy of that book. After a few month's practice one doesn't even need the thermometer any more. The method she teaches plus a little pull-n-pray and you've got contraception covered nearly as well as a condom.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Gena said:


> Every woman, period, should own a copy of that book. After a few month's practice one doesn't even need the thermometer any more. The method she teaches plus a little pull-n-pray and you've got contraception covered nearly as well as a condom.


Take that and toss in some Queen Anne's Lace seeds for good measure as a contraceptive, or pennyroyal and a few other herbs known as abortifacients and you're covered better than a condom.

.


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## Trixters_muse (Jan 29, 2008)

tab said:


> I read some time ago that women used to use a clean sponge, would have been a natural sponge then, tie a ribbon on it and us it like a diaphragm. Wonder if lemon juice or vinegar would cut bacterial growth as well as be hostile to sperm.


Yes, ancient Greek women, London prostitutes and other women in history have used sponges dipped in vinegar as birth control. It was also thought to prevent against STD's as well, although I wouldn't bet money on it considering the number of prostitutes who died from Syphilis.

Some herbs used though out the ages as natural birth control are Queen Anne's Lace, Wild Carrot, Tansy and Penny Royal. I do not advise anyone to take these herbs for birth control without educating yourself first and doing vast research.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Trixters_muse said:


> Some herbs used though out the ages as natural birth control are Queen Anne's Lace, Wild Carrot, Tansy and Penny Royal. *I do not advise anyone to take these herbs for birth control without educating yourself first and doing vast research*.


Yes, it's absolutely essential to do research and to educate oneself. I recently heard a sad story of a woman who took the toxic _abortifacient_ penny royal while she was in several days long dry labour because she thought it would hasten the delivery. Clearly she didn't realize that by taking the penny royal at that time she was toxifying her full term baby and may have inadvertently caused irreparable damage to the child that won't be evident until the child is older. So education about contraceptive and abortifacient herbs is absolutely essential.

.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

ROFLOL! Yep vocabulary is expanded. I'll take that as my lesson for the month


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

Dad always told my sisters to take an asprin...........







and put it between your knees.


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## stormwalker (Oct 27, 2004)

mpillow said:


> "
> I'm always amazed by women who whine and carry on about how hard/painful "labor" is....I set my mind to a place and kept my eye on the prize and got busy...
> Animals don't cry out for drugs when they go into labor and often do it unassisted...when did we get so above the nature of nature?
> 
> I could be a midwife but probably wouldn't do well with whiners...


I think you might be lacking one very necessary attribute.
Compassion.


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## jessimeredith (Sep 12, 2004)

bluemoonluck said:


> I hesitate to point this out....but even modern birth control isn't 100%.
> 
> :tmi:
> 
> My DD (who is 10) was a big surprise. We were properly using condoms when she was conceived. No evidence of leaking at the time, no nothing :shrug:.


Yup! My 23yr old niece, my 3yr old nephew and my one of my best friend's 2 older children are "pill babies". Best friend's youngest...."IUD baby!!"


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

*Compassion.*

Will not birth a baby in a SHTF situation. It won't prevent pregnancy either.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

STDs can be VERY effective contraceptives. THAT is why many prostitutes have had only one or no children.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

:rotfl: I don't even know where to start on this one... too many posts to reply to! ound:


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## stormwalker (Oct 27, 2004)

mpillow said:


> *Compassion.*
> 
> Will not birth a baby in a SHTF situation. It won't prevent pregnancy either.


I don't see callousness as a better option in either case.


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## Ode (Sep 20, 2006)

There are no easy answers here. For those who think a woman should just say no, that doesn't always work when a man doesn't really care what the woman wants. It isn't always thought of as rape, when husbands/partners feel they have a right to intimacy when they feel a need for it, and the wife has a duty to submit. Not saying that is the situation in my marriage, but I have heard this from quite a few women who feel they have no other option because their beliefs tell them they must submit to their husband in all ways. 

And for those who think that if all women would just relax and let nature take its course in the old fashioned ways of childbirthing that are more effective with less pain that everything would be sunshine and roses for all the mothers and babies in the world, take a good look at the animal kingdom. Especially those of you who deal with animals regularly for food needs. Animals have been giving birth as nature intended for pretty much all of time until humans came along and started keeping them. A lot of them die while trying to give birth in the wild, and they do it in captivity too. Human intervention may save some if the situation is discovered in time and action taken. But think about the possibility of having to cut a child out of its mother in pieces, or trying to pull out a too large child. Or what about the mother that just never goes into labor, or who develops a severe illness during pregnancy? 

Yes, it is nature that some mothers and children will die without medical intervention during childbirthing. But just because that is what would happen if one allowed nature to take its course doesn't mean that is what we must do simply because it IS nature. As humans, we were given a gift of intellect that lets us rise above nature, and shape it to our wishes. This is a good thing, or we would be shivering in caves, while living the hunting and forage lives that our distant ancestors scrabbled at.

There is no reason to doom a woman to certain death or injury from childbearing when where might be a possible solution to her problems. To say that she must be celibate for life is not reasonable either, it is human nature to find comfort and solace in the embrace of a loved one. It is one of the most basic needs in existance. To deny it is to deny the programming in our genes that put us here in the first place. I just hope that there is an answer for those who need it. And I am thankful those years are behind me so that I don't have to worry anymore. I was one of those women who needed medical intervention to give birth, with every single one of my babies. Thank god it was there when I needed it.


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## Shrarvrs88 (May 8, 2010)

No idea about if it really works, as I have never felt the desire for an abortion, but gramma always swore on juniper berry tea.


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

I'd die before the baby was even born from malnutrition. I can't keep ANYTHING down when pregnant...I didn't take the major drugs though they put me on unisom and B6 and it worked great. NL could probably tell me why it did-I didn't ask I was just glad SOMETHING did.

On the plus side I always end a pregnacy weighing less than when I got pregnant. The most I gained ever was 19 lbs with DS12 and he weighed 9 lbs 1 oz!

Oh and not everyone has the pain tolerance to have a baby without meds-be they wusses or not.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

whiskeylivewire said:


> I can't keep ANYTHING down when pregnant...I didn't take the major drugs though they put me on unisom and B6 and it worked great.



One of the meds in one of the Unisom's (Diclectin I believe?) reduces nausea. B6 is used with it in combo in many countries and sold that way. 

The ER docs told me to use it too and it helped greatly in my last pg!!!


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

Freya said:


> One of the meds in one of the Unisom's (Diclectin I believe?) reduces nausea. B6 is used with it in combo in many countries and sold that way.
> 
> The ER docs told me to use it too and it helped greatly in my last pg!!!


It was wonderful! Much better than the prescription meds and I could keep water down! You are the only person I've heard say they used it as well, everyone around here thinks I'm crazy! (then again, read my signature line )


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

whiskeylivewire said:


> It was wonderful! Much better than the prescription meds and I could keep water down! You are the only person I've heard say they used it as well, everyone around here thinks I'm crazy! (then again, read my signature line )



You are one of the few people that I have heard use it too! It was an ER doc that told me about... no ob/gyn or midwife ever clued me in!

For awhile it was the only way I could eat at all... I tried every natural "fix" I had ever heard of too!


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## lorian (Sep 4, 2005)

Just want to say that Red Tartans advice is truth! 20 yrs. with that method and no "oopies" for us. Takes practice.

As someone involved in midwifery I can say that it's really not hard for a women to learn her fertility cycle. Takes observation but it can be done. Teaching women this skill will be a BIG barter item in shtf.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

The truth is........................No matter what the situation, people are NOT going to practice abstinence. There's not a young (under 30) couple in the world that wouldn't just keep right on doing it. Sure, they might be careful, but passionate opportunities would take over and pregnancies would occur.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> Ecological breastfeeding is huge in the LAM (lactational ammenorhea method) of birth control. In the first 6 months it is more reliable than condoms. http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/fertility.html I can usually go 18 mo to 2 yrs before my cycles return.


It's that range between 6 months and 2 years that tends to get most of us. lol

DS was a mere 10 months old when I got pregnant with DD. 
He didn't wean until he was almost 4. 
My cycle never did return which is why I didn't know I was pregnant until I was three months along.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

*I was one of those women who needed medical intervention to give birth, with every single one of my babies. Thank god it was there when I needed it.*

but we are talking about post SHTF...medical intervention will be available to only a few lucky ones...and it will lead to women and babies dieing in childbirth...sad but true. Darwin had an explanation for this....


And we may have intellect on our side as humans but reproducing naturally post SHTF is more about your physical attributes, though I do think that being able to get your head focused on the event is important....look at the people who have cut there arm or toes off to get lose from a situation that spells death otherwise...this is the mental aspect that I'm getting at....I'd guess that (most)modern day women have lost this "survival instinct"

pain tolerance, mind control, will to live.....survival instincts.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Contraception would/will be a vital consideration in a post apocalyptic world. If you have ever walked through an old graveyard it is abundantly clear that infant and mother mortality rates were obscene. This of course was due to poor medical care and nutrition but those would be the same problems facing the world again. Actually many parts of the world continue even today to see infant mortality rates that are mind boggling. Three out of five children dying before the age of three and 15 out of 100 births claiming the lives of the mothers. The deaths of healthy women in childbirth would be a major set back to the reconstruction of society. And as to the concept of having as many children as possible to rebuild. That is not sensible. You want quality not quantity. Each child being born should be given the best chance possible for survival. Just the creation of a human takes enormous personal reserves and effort. 

Of course the discussion on contraception assumes that whatever happened to end the current society did not damage reproductive organs (sperm and eggs) as would be the case in a massive nuclear war.


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

francismilker said:


> The truth is........................No matter what the situation, people are NOT going to practice abstinence. There's not a young (under 30) couple in the world that wouldn't just keep right on doing it. Sure, they might be careful, but passionate opportunities would take over and pregnancies would occur.


I know several young couples practicing NFP and choosing to postpone conception at this time for various reasons - which requires abstinence. Abstinence is difficult at times, yes! But it also provides a nice "honeymoon" at times. The current issue of Family Foundations by ccli.org has a great section on abstinence and its challenges and rewards for husbands and wives.

There is a whole world of understanding your bodies and the beauty of married life out there for those who want that level of living. Nothing worth having is always easy.


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

Who needs birth control when you have wire coat hangers?


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Not trying to be argumenative here...............but I have a hard time believing you could get any young couple, (especially the young man) to practice abstinence for any reason other than medical or the LONG 6 weeks post pregnancy that the Dr. mandates. It's just not healthy on a marriage for a number of reasons for young people to practice abstinence. I mean, that's what the young man has waited his whole life for right???


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## FunnyRiverFarm (May 25, 2010)

I don't know about birth control...I guess we could go back to using animal bladders/intestines to make condoms like they did in the good old days. There are plenty of abortive plants/herbs that could be used if the need arose...which it would. 

We'd probably just go back to the days of high infant and maternal mortality rates...even higher than before most likely since there are more complicated pregnancies now due to obesity, high BP, diabetes, and heart disease in women of child-bearing age...those used to be old folk's diseases but now they are emerging during pregnancy (when the body systems are taxed) at an alarming rate. There are also a lot of sexually transmitted infections running through the population that can cause many complications during pregnancy and for babies...I think the stats are something like 1 in 3 people have been treated for an STI by the age of 25...and it's going up. Most of these infections have no apparent symptoms until pregnancy/childbirth. 

Even healthy women and so-called "easy-birthers" are at risk for complications and so are their infants. Group B Streptococcus naturally inhabits the vaginas of around 30% of all women...but causes life threatening infections in infants. And no more RhoGAM shots for Rh negative moms with positive babies...the list goes on and it is frightening. There are so many things that every woman receiving prenatal care is tested for and/or treated for that we don't even think about but wouldn't be available in a SHTF situation.


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

francismilker said:


> Not trying to be argumenative here...............but I have a hard time believing you could get any young couple, (especially the young man) to practice abstinence for any reason other than medical or the LONG 6 weeks post pregnancy that the Dr. mandates. It's just not healthy on a marriage for a number of reasons for young people to practice abstinence. I mean, that's what the young man has waited his whole life for right???


That's one view of marriage, yes. I know young men who have the same urges but not the view of marriage and the worth of their wives that you seem to describe. If sex is a person's top goal in marriage, then that person would not find Natural Family Planning helpful.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Honestly, NOT trying to argue again here. Just hear me out though and let's think practical for a second. Tell me how many young men that are fixing to get married would settle for an "oh, by the way, instead of trying to find some type of SHTF birthcontrol we're gonna practice abstinence" would go through with it?????

I don't know of any young men that I've ever visited with prior and for the first few years of marriage that have said romance isn't VERY important to them. If it wasn't, they'd forego marriage all together and go hunting with their buddies. 

Birth control for married couples is a very important issue but I don't think because a young man refuses abstinence he has less care for the worth of his wife. The sad truth is: Humans, (especially males) are seekers of the opposite sex by their God-given chemistry and as mentioned in an above post there are third world countries in famine right now that are prime example of "abstinence isn't a solution". Some of the women you see walking hundreds of miles to refugee camps are wagging a baby on each hip and have several in tow. I'm not saying it's right, it's just reality. I also realize that these women probably didn't choose to bring these kids into the world under these conditions. 

We're talking here from the OP about emergency types of birthcontrol if I understood it correctly and abstinence aint gonna work. If people don't stopping smoking, dipping, drinking coffee during these times until their resources run out what makes us visualize they're gonna stop having romance (until their resources run out)? Agreed, abstinence is the only 100% birthcontrol on the market, it just doesn't sell very well with young couples.


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

francismilker said:


> Not trying to be argumenative here...............but I have a hard time believing you could get any young couple, (especially the young man) to practice abstinence for any reason other than medical or the LONG 6 weeks post pregnancy that the Dr. mandates. It's just not healthy on a marriage for a number of reasons for young people to practice abstinence. I mean, that's what the young man has waited his whole life for right???


I was told that the Drs tell your 6 weeks so that you will wait 3. Just sayin~ :nanner:


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

mpillow said:


> LOL I made childbirth look like a day at the beach....seriously one or two pushes and done...and I'm not a big framed person by any stretch...but apparently I stretch well. I wish now that I'd have had my kids at home...and had a couple more but I'm pretty sure I'm done at 40...but we haven't used and "contraception" other than body rhythm in 16 years...
> I'm always amazed by women who whine and carry on about how hard/painful "labor" is....I set my mind to a place and kept my eye on the prize and got busy...
> Animals don't cry out for drugs when they go into labor and often do it unassisted...when did we get so above the nature of nature?
> 
> I could be a midwife but probably wouldn't do well with whiners...


Mpillow, some of us are....built...petitely. Everywhere. One or two pushes??? I have had six children and due partly to conscious maintenance of pelvic tone, each and every natural birth was a struggle. I would have been happy with one or two HOURS of pushing. Babies don't just drop out of every woman. 

And my experience has been that lots of heavy manual labor lays down a ton of muscle into the pelvic area.....all the more muscle to push that HUGE head through. Animals have heads which are proportionate to the size of their pelvises. Humans don't. Our upright posture has serious drawbacks and difficult labors are one of them.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Comfortably Numb said:


> Who needs birth control when you have wire coat hangers?


Abstinence! Make the horny men suffer! (laughing wickedly)........

Or, of course, one could figure out that there are ways which do not involve depositing sperm in the vicinity of eggs. lol......


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Spin off thread: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=412363


If anyone has or is planning to be sterilized as a "prep" to avoid the whole issue here.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

yeah petite...when I got pregnant I was 115# at 5'2"...not TV thin but hardly big!...once the baby was 2m old I was back to pre pregnancy wt.
A size 5/6 and it wasn't like I had big hips, you know, I wore a c cup before breastfeeding.

My mom was built similar and had 6 kids...two breech w/o and "problems"


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

francismilker said:


> Honestly, NOT trying to argue again here...


We view marriage differently. I personally know and have ongoing relationships with young couples who practice NFP happily and successfully. I am proposing a way of viewing life, marriage, fertility and the role of sexuality. You don't see it that way and that's okay.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

> Who needs birth control when you have wire coat hangers?


 I would hate for us to have to go back to THOSE days!!!


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## fetch33 (Jan 15, 2010)

jlrbhjmnc said:


> Natural Family Planning - see ccli.org. There are sympto-thermal methods of understanding your fertility that are very effective - you track temperatures, mucous signs and cervical signs.


My twin and I are a product of the rhythm method that was taught by the Catholic church. They obviously didn't understand the finer points of assessing fertility! That being said, when I was ready to get pregnant, I came off of the pill (I was on it for other reasons besides preventing pregnancy) for 3 months. During that time, I practiced NFP with condoms used during fertile times. Then I tried to get pregnant.... took the first month :happy: After the first was born we practiced NFP again until we were ready for the second. In fact we were able to prevent pregnancy for 2 years after the birth of the second child. Worked very well for us. Then hubby got snipped :clap:


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## fetch33 (Jan 15, 2010)

chamoisee said:


> Abstinence! Make the horny men suffer! (laughing wickedly)........
> 
> Or, of course, one could figure out that there are ways which do not involve depositing sperm in the vicinity of eggs. lol......


Exactly what I was thinking! At the risk of :tmi:, many times I am so tired that I can do what needs to be done, make him happy and I can get to sleep faster than an all out  :kissy:


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

fetch33 said:


> .... *many times* I am *so tired* that I can *do what needs to be done*, make* him happy* and *I can get to sleep* faster....


I can't begin to express how utterly sad and dismayed I'm feeling for you after reading that. :awh:


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

> Who needs birth control when you have wire coat hangers?




[YOUTUBE]XOILKHmZBwc[/YOUTUBE]


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

mpillow said:


> yeah petite...when I got pregnant I was 115# at 5'2"...not TV thin but hardly big!...once the baby was 2m old I was back to pre pregnancy wt.
> A size 5/6 and it wasn't like I had big hips, you know, I wore a c cup before breastfeeding.
> 
> My mom was built similar and had 6 kids...two breech w/o and "problems"


I mean petite...inside. The height and weight and hip circumference don't have much bearing on difficulty of birth. Some women just don't have a lot of room to cram that kid through...especially when they weigh 8 or 9 lbs.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Oggie (off topic) but I read her daughters book about her mom and that was some SERIOUSLY scary behavior that she had to live through!!! :runforhills:


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

As for the mucous method.....I found out the hard way (no pun intended) that fertility signs and ability varies a lot from one person to the next. My ex's sperm lived for *5 days!* The books and literature say sperm lives for three. Not his! 

I am going to not address the unpleasant details of having to abstain when fertile and ovulating....when everything in you is screaming for your partner....especially if your drive is fairly low when you're not fertile. 

But...wait! Are women allowed to desire to enjoy their man in every sense of the word in these circles, or are we simply vessels for their amusement and offspring?


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Only issue with NFP is that not everyone has regular cycles. Ask the thousands/millions with PCOS how they would track theirs when there is pretty much no way to track theirs. :shrug:


Not against NFP at all... just to clarify! But alot would be going into a SHTF scenario with very messed up female "systems", so on a large scale it would fail possible millions. :awh:


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

For anyone interested in natural herbal contraception, here is the final summary of a recent study that was done by some Wise Woman herbalists. The study was done on the use of tincture made from the seeds and flowers of Wild Carrot _Daucus carota_ (a.k.a. Queen Anne's Lace) for contraception. The first page is the introduction to the study, the second page has the results of the study.

http://robinrosebennett.com/index.php?option=com_easyblog&view=entry&id=12&Itemid=74

Wild Carrot Study - Final Summary, August 2011 - by Robin Rose Bennett and Mischa Schuler

http://robinrosebennett.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=44


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

chamoisee said:


> I mean petite...inside. The height and weight and hip circumference don't have much bearing on difficulty of birth. Some women just don't have a lot of room to cram that kid through...especially when they weigh 8 or 9 lbs.


yep both of mine were just under 8# like 7#14oz I went from 3-9cm dialation in 40min...the nurse was dumbfounded:shrug:
I will say that I was active, very active...like playing league ball while prego...but I carried to term w/ both #2 was a week late:shrug:

And I've never been able to use even the slender tampons...too uncomfortable...so not like the playground had much room then or now:nono:

Now after baby #1 I could hardly walk for a week because my hips/backbone had stretched but I healed quickly things tightened up....#2 was a walk in the park.

My sedentary sister at 5'7 and 200# had 24 hr labors...one baby was 5#(early) and one was 8# and she used super tampons right along so I'm not sure how size contributes....I will tell you that she is a "wimp" when it comes to pain and life....:croc:


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Paumon, that would require a whole lot of vodka!


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

Freya said:


> Only issue with NFP is that not everyone has regular cycles. Ask the thousands/millions with PCOS how they would track theirs when there is pretty much no way to track theirs. :shrug:
> 
> 
> Not against NFP at all... just to clarify! But alot would be going into a SHTF scenario with very messed up female "systems", so on a large scale it would fail possible millions. :awh:


Good point - every woman is different! Add to that women who are postpartum, post-miscarriage, weaning, peri-menopausal, etc. and you have a huge range of variability in cycles. There are teaching couples and NFP physicians to help. Also good books that are updated regularly with new research. I really do hope more couples will study and understand their fertility. It's good for the health of the woman and the relationship.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Well, I pushed for HOURS....pushed and pushed and pushed......before my kids came out. After the largest one, I could not sit down for days, the distention and swelling was so extreme. I am not a wimp and I didn't lack willpower and I did try. Every woman's labor is different and I think it's more than a little cold to insult others who weren't as fortunate as yourself, Mpillow.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

TheMartianChick said:


> Paumon, that would require a whole lot of vodka!


You're joking, right? :grin:


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

chamoisee said:


> Well, I pushed for HOURS....pushed and pushed and pushed......before my kids came out. After the largest one, I could not sit down for days, the distention and swelling was so extreme. I am not a wimp and I didn't lack willpower and I did try. Every woman's labor is different and I think it's more than a little cold to insult others who weren't as fortunate as yourself, Mpillow.


Soooo glad I opted not to bother...especially given that I was 9.9, my brother was 11.3 and my mother was 12.0! :runforhills::umno::happy2:


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

nature after SHTF will be cold...as it was to our forefathers and mothers...

Was I lucky? possibly, it happened twice though!...have I suffered broken bones and played on...yes! To me I had no other option...

And when I pushed...they asked me to stop! (no gloves on)...I was just starting to bear down...thinking get this thing outta me now! and get me outta this freakin' hospital. Serious, it was intense and agenda (in my mind) driven....and no I didn't take those classes on breathing or anything, I was busy working or playing ball.

I'm not being mean, maybe a bit militaristic (of which I've never engaged) but Tough...you bet...I want to live and I want my pain to be fixed in a hurry...I'll work with it.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

Ive had every form of birthcontrol fail here I am on number 5 and we where using two different methods to prevent things and well, we are blessed despite our resistance, my mom had two kids after her tubes where done.
Both my husband and I are getting tied, if it happens again we will just have to resort to other fun activities.

Organ condoms have pores that can leak so even those are not reliable, truth be told nothing is, even abstinence as that worked so well for Mary


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Oh, I survived alright....I've had six kids after all.....but it is hard for me not to sit here and pray that you also are blessed with a difficult labor (maybe posterior would be nice??) and with babies whose head circumferences are on the 95% percentile. 

I just can't see why, having been blessed with easy labors, you feel the need to insult women who haven't been.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Its not a insult....its an observation that people may want to consider Post SHTF...sort of like meditation


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

One of my oldest friends is a midwife. She is from Scotland and has delivered hundreds of babies both at home and in birthing rooms at the hospital. Natural, water and with a chemical high for her moms. She prefers the hospital of course. Every single birth is something to be taken as a life and death situation for both the mother and the child. Her stories are wonderful but also frightening and tragic. She has had mothers who had births as easy as shelling peas and those who have suffered intensely. She has assisted in delivering dead babies and once a baby from a dead mother. One 23 year had a fabulous pregnancy and a delivery that set speed and ease records and then hemmorrhaged to death in her sleep. She has delivered preemies, sick and disabled babies and watched them live and die.

In a shtf world birth will not only be challenging but deadly.


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## Sunbee (Sep 30, 2008)

My husband and I are pretty good at the birth control odds as well. If only we could do it with the lottery!
All us ladies should remember that hand-washing made a huge difference in maternal and infant survival.
I wonder . . . my dad has a friend who has had a root canal without pain medication. I understand the gentleman learned some techniques with his first wife when she was dying of cancer that enable him to basically choose not to feel pain. Perhaps mpillow is getting at the same concepts from a different direction?


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

I don't know. I had a co-worker once who always enjoyed telling every other pregnant co-worker or prego woman who would stand still long enough to listen, that _her_ labor had been so easy! _She_ never felt the contractions at all. She literally had felt NO pain. Which was fine, but hearing her crow about it incessantly....to women who definitely did feel their contractions.....was sort of cruel. 

And it's mean of me, but I sort of laughed to myself when she complained on and on about how she had such a hard time finding a man who was large enough to suit her.....Ha. 

One thing I have learned though, is that it isn't only about the woman carrying the baby. The father of that child influences the hormones that the fetus releases into mom's bloodstream, which has an effect on the pregnancy and labor. I saw this with a good friend of mine. She was in horrible, constant pain for the last several months of three of her pregnancies....and the kids were monsters- 12 and 13 lbs...she broke the county record! (wince) She had a fourth child by a different man. That pregnancy and labor was a breeze and the baby was only about 7 lbs. She just glowed with happiness talking about that pregnancy....the others had been torture for her.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

In some ways this topic kind of reminds me of the dubious stories my dad would rant on about his mother - stuff like:

_"My mother was strong Cossack peasant stock, she worked in the fields until she was ready to drop the baby and then an hour later after the baby was born she was back working in the fields again with the baby strapped on her back and she never complained about any problems."_

Yeah, right. I took all that with a grain of salt. He would conveniently forget about the part where she had 14 babies one right after another without any breaks, half of whom died at birth or in early infancy, and that his mother died in childbirth before her 30th birthday giving birth to the 14th (who fell into the hog pen and got killed and eaten by the hogs 5 years later).

The facts are some women are natural born baby-making brood mares who have no problems with pregnancy and dropping big babies, and some other women aren't and go through horrors in pregnancy and childbirth, but no two women are completely alike. 

So nobody is in a position to compare themselves with anyone else nor make criticisms of other women's experiences in pregnancy and childbirth.

.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

I did have serious pain...major back labor with the first but I guess I expected it and accepted it and used it as motivation...by the time the urge to push came it was a huge relief to the back labor....so I felt-- yeah I'm bearing down and hoping for the pain to subside...and I had the mini contractions right after pregnancy when the baby would nurse...curl my toes up and forced myself to breath....there was pain but it was channeled...Did I mention puking for the first 5 months all hours of the day?...my doctor assured me it was sign of a healthy boy and he was right!
I only had babies with one man and we are both smallish people...he's 5'10 145# but my children were not big headed either...I believe 60th percentile but DH's brother(same mom and dad) had big headed kids with a larger framed woman and she had c-sections and claimed to not be able to breast feed because of her c-section...

I do think that babies will be smaller PSHTF due to limited foodstuffs


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## wagvan (Jan 29, 2011)

Freya said:


> Only issue with NFP is that not everyone has regular cycles. Ask the thousands/millions with PCOS how they would track theirs when there is pretty much no way to track theirs. :shrug:
> 
> 
> Not against NFP at all... just to clarify! But alot would be going into a SHTF scenario with very messed up female "systems", so on a large scale it would fail possible millions. :awh:


The women with PCOS and peri-menopausal women would track it the same way my breastfeeding irregular cycle self does. That is the beauty of tracking cervical fluid and cervix position, it works no matter how regular or irregular your cycle is.

:goodjob:


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

*OK I am bumping myself. This thread is 3 years old.*

But I was recently having a conversation with some other moms on this subject and remembered my old thread here. Thought I would bump it and see if anyone has some new thoughts on the subject.


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