# Grill lighter ACTUALLY unsafe with acetylene torch?



## Joel_BC (Nov 10, 2009)

I'm aware that the literature on using oxy-acetylene torches warns against using anything other than a sparker (or 'spark lighter') to light the torch - and with acetylene _only_ "on" before oxygen is introduced.

If you were in a situation where you had your acetylene rig but did not have a standard sparker, but _did_ have access to a butane grill lighter, would you completely avoid using the butane lighter?

If so, what is the rationale behind this complete avoidance?

By the way, I'm not advocating the practice... I've never used a grill lighter myself for lighting an O/A torch.

Thanks.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

It's my undstanding that a butane lighter that catches fire (for whatever reason) blows nearly like s stick of dynamite.

You should not even arc weld, with one in your pocket.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

plowjockey said:


> It's my undstanding that a butane lighter that catches fire (for whatever reason) blows nearly like s stick of dynamite.
> 
> You should not even arc weld, with one in your pocket.


Heard of a guy in the 70's losing a leg.


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## Joel_BC (Nov 10, 2009)

plowjockey said:


> It's my undstanding that a butane lighter that catches fire (for whatever reason) blows nearly like s stick of dynamite.
> 
> You should not even arc weld, with one in your pocket.


Okay. Not saying you are wrong.

But the butane grill lighter ignites a fire when you light a grill, right? So then why doesn't the grill fire cause the grill lighter to explode? :huh:


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Joel_BC said:


> Okay. Not saying you are wrong.
> 
> But the butane grill lighter ignites a fire when you light a grill, right? So then why doesn't the grill fire cause the grill lighter to explode? :huh:


Neither will cause a lighter to explode. A lighter will light a torch just fine. Millions probably light torches with one all of the time.

Like I stated, if, for some reason the lighter catches fire, it could explode. A sparker will not explode under any conditions.

It's a safety thing, pretty much, not a commandment


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

a grill doesn't shoot out a great plume of flame if the gas is on too high or a super hot flame if someone forgets to shut off the oxy...
We were not allowed to have propane lighters at all at a couple of places I have worked at, needed to use a Zippo or matches


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

a lighter will not explode, the fuel would have to be mixed with the proper amount of air (oxygen) for that to happen.....but,i have seen first hand what happens when the fuel in a butane lighter is released (as from a hole melted through the lighter from spatter). it throws a pretty big flame for about 4 seconds. no one would want to be within 8 feet of it....so i vote no on using or carrying lighters around any type of welding or cutting operation.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

ace admirer said:


> a lighter will not explode, the fuel would have to be mixed with the proper amount of air (oxygen) for that to happen.....but,i have seen first hand what happens when the fuel in a butane lighter is released (as from a hole melted through the lighter from spatter). it throws a pretty big flame for about 4 seconds. no one would want to be within 8 feet of it....so i vote no on using or carrying lighters around any type of welding or cutting operation.


 I've seen butane lighters explode before. If the hole is more of a crack.... boom.

ETA: I do believe, though I'm not 100% sure, that a half used lighter is more explosive than a full one. Same as a tank of gas, more airspace.


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

I'd be a lot more willing to light a torch with the grill lighter than a regular cigarette lighter. You're holding the plastic bottle of butane several inches further away from the torch flame with the one than the other.

Acetylene torches burn hot, and can burn through a plastic lighter real fast. Especially if you're one of those operators who likes to start them with the oxygen on.

Would you get away with lighting one with a regular little cigarette type butane lighter? Sure, most of the time. Really won't want to be holding that lighter the one time you didn't get away with it.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

InvalidID said:


> I've seen butane lighters explode before. If the hole is more of a crack.... boom.
> 
> ETA: I do believe, though I'm not 100% sure, that a half used lighter is more explosive than a full one. Same as a tank of gas, more airspace.


one mans explopsion is another mans "puff out" explosions are usually considered a front traveling 5000 feet per second or faster. there is no air space in a half full butane lighter,,,,there is no way air can get into a pressureized lighter,,,,but there is more vaporized butane in the space not occupied by liquid butane. liquid butane must be turned into a vapor, them mixed with oxygen before it will burn or mixed with oxygen and in a contained space before it will explode.

if you are the one near the fireball,,, its an explosion,,,,,if you are sitting in your living room typing on a keyboard like me its a puff out or "fireball",,,is it called deflagration??? been a long time since i studied explosions....fun stuff.


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## Joel_BC (Nov 10, 2009)

The majority opinion seems to be that a butane grill lighter (and even more so, a butane _cigarette_ lighter) is not a good option.

What then, might I ask, would you consider the next option - if you didn't have a sparker with you?


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

ace admirer said:


> one mans explopsion is another mans "puff out" explosions are usually considered a front traveling 5000 feet per second or faster. there is no air space in a half full butane lighter,,,,there is no way air can get into a pressureized lighter,,,,but there is more vaporized butane in the space not occupied by liquid butane. liquid butane must be turned into a vapor, them mixed with oxygen before it will burn or mixed with oxygen and in a contained space before it will explode.
> 
> if you are the one near the fireball,,, its an explosion,,,,,if you are sitting in your living room typing on a keyboard like me its a puff out or "fireball",,,is it called deflagration??? been a long time since i studied explosions....fun stuff.


 Ok, fair enough. But when you hear a boom it's an explosion to the laymen...lol


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Joel_BC said:


> The majority opinion seems to be that a butane grill lighter (and even more so, a butane _cigarette_ lighter) is not a good option.
> 
> What then, might I ask, would you consider the next option - if you didn't have a sparker with you?


Butane lighter.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

An empty grill lighter still makes a *spark* that will ignite the torch


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

If you can buy a lighter, can't you buy a sparker? Or if not, you could light a scrap of paper and put the lighter somewhere safe then fire off the torch from the paper. Or get one of those push button grill igniters, they don't have any gas, only a push button.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

"But when you hear a boom it's an explosion to the laymen...lol"

You're right!!!
__________


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## maddmatt (Mar 29, 2009)

Ive seen plenty of torches lit with lighters and glowing cigarets to no ill effect.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

it may be like crossing railroad tracks without looking,,,you can get away with it for years,,but one day a train may sneak up on you.

lets just get a $5.00 striker


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Empty grill lighters work great for sparking, we used one for couple years to light our propane cook stove. Plus, no possibility of an explosive leak.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Joel_BC said:


> I'm aware that the literature on using oxy-acetylene torches warns against using anything other than a sparker (or 'spark lighter') to light the torch - and with acetylene _only_ "on" before oxygen is introduced.
> 
> If you were in a situation where you had your acetylene rig but did not have a standard sparker, but _did_ have access to a butane grill lighter, would you completely avoid using the butane lighter?
> 
> ...


I have been using oxy/acetylene rigs for 40 years and cant remember the last time I used a "striker". Probably in high school. I lite them up with a bic lighter normally, or a match... or a piece of hot iron by mixing a bit of oxygen while relighting it. A lit cigarette works just as well. I cant imagine having a problem with a grill lighter but if yer worried, lite a piece of newpaper with the grill liter, then lite yer torch with the burning paper.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

plowjockey said:


> It's my undstanding that a butane lighter that catches fire (for whatever reason) blows nearly like s stick of dynamite.
> 
> You should not even arc weld, with one in your pocket.


I set a bic on fire in my pocket once while arc welding. it didnt explode but it did throw a nice flame and burnt a small hole in the shirt pocket before I could get it out!


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## taylorlambert (Jul 4, 2010)

I use a gas grill Peizo ignitor ans sometimes a long stemmed butane lighter. THe peizo ignitor works well in the wind ans rain. A ligher will usually just make a big woosh. I forgot and left one on the woodstove after I started a fire on night.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

I got a bunch of those strikers somewhere lost though when i need them so Bic it is . Now using a cigarette is out as i have a full beard :happy2:

But i use LP on my torch instead of acetylene :whistlin:


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