# Being PRESSURED to send my kids to Public School!



## HomesteadXing

Has anyone else had this problem? I work FT and am often gone throughout the week, but our homeschooling has been going very well as I use several sources to HS our kids (5, 3 and 2) as it doesn't take long and they're all sponges! My husband helps me while I am gone and we use ABC mouse for the younger kids and some other online sources as well as reprintable worksheets, etc. and some I have prepared ahead of time.

My Mom keeps dropping LARGE hints that I should send my son to public school on the basis that I am gone a lot and she's concerned that he's not getting his learning in and she doesn't consider that my 5 year old is now in 1st grade curriculum!! He's so smart, highly logically minded and LOVES puzzles. My girls are in the same grade, though our 3 year old is catching more onto her writing than our 2 year old (still doing more shapes and colors there and working on her speech). 

I guess I am having a lot of trouble with the pressure I am getting from family about sending my kids to Public School, not only do I NOT agree with the "common core" crap, it's also with the myriad of things going on in our schools (more local stuff here than anything) and besides, we have more freedom to take the kids wherever and whenever without having to schedule them being gone from school, etc. 

Just...it's aggrivating, does anyone else have this problem? Did you give in or stick to it? I have been sticking with this for the last 5 years and it's beginning to wear from family at least once a month dropping a hint. My husband and I are VERY firm though, that we will homeschool (some unschooling as well) I just wish that my family would be on board as well gre:


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## Murby

My opinion on this is that if the parents don't have 4 year college degree's, they have no business trying to educate their own children.. Beyond normal parent stuff that is.

If you're educated, and if you're testing your kids to make sure they are keeping up and could compete with an equal from a public school, then tell your mom to go jump in a lake.


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## tiffnzacsmom

Your family won't agree. I did while working with my son but it was difficult and wouldn't have been able to with formatting curriculum for multiple children, teaching and reviewing work.


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## motherhenshow

12 years ago when my oldest was 5, my Mom also was really opposed to homeschooling.She tried to pressure me for several years to put him in school, but I stayed strong  Today she is so glad that I homeschool my 4 boys. They are bright, articulate, and very polite. You can do this!!!! Don't give in.


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## Annes

Tell Mom,


HomesteadXing said:


> "Just...it's aggravating...
> I have been sticking with this for the last 5 years . . .
> it's beginning to wear from family at least once a month dropping a hint. . .
> My husband and I are VERY firm . . .
> we will homeschool (some unschooling as well) . . .
> 
> I just wish that my family would be on board as well gre:"


"and Mom, if you can't respect our decision, then be quiet. I will not hear you on this topic again." 

Then don't tolerate a conversation on this topic from her again.

I chose to home school my ADD/ADHD and dyslexic guys who are in college now. 
Mother-in-law, sister-in-law, and every in-law I had, was certain I was ruining my kids. 
Three of them home school their own kids now, and the others know it is such a wonderful thing to do.
They will come around or not. Just don't let them stop you doing what you know is right for your family.


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## Annes

Murby said:


> My opinion on this is that if the parents don't have 4 year college degree's, they have no business trying to educate their own children.. Beyond normal parent stuff that is.
> 
> If you're educated, and if you're testing your kids to make sure they are keeping up and could compete with an equal from a public school, then tell your mom to go jump in a lake.


What kind of 4 year degree do you have?
What about it qualifies you to teach a child?


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## farmerDale

Murby said:


> My opinion on this is that if the parents don't have 4 year college degree's, they have no business trying to educate their own children.. Beyond normal parent stuff that is.
> 
> If you're educated, and if you're testing your kids to make sure they are keeping up and could compete with an equal from a public school, then tell your mom to go jump in a lake.


My opinion is such that no one but the parents should give a rip how the kids are educated, least of all "highly educated" people who think a degree somehow makes you "smarter". 

To the op: Stick with what you are doing, don't let the naysayers bug you. The naysayers do not know your kids needs, they do not know obviously, how highly excelling the majority of HS kids are, that they score WAY higher on so many levels, than the college educated, teacher kids.


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## Murby

Annes said:


> What kind of 4 year degree do you have?
> What about it qualifies you to teach a child?


Electrical Engineer.. +25 years as an Industrial Process Design Engineer.

I would be very qualified in Math, Science, Technology, Computers and Programming, Physics, Astronomy, etc etc.

I would fall short in History, Language, English, Music and a few others.

While I'm not a complete idiot, I do know some history.. could probably muster enough English, and since I used to play the Piano and Trombone when I was a kid, I might be able to conjure up some sort of pitiful music lessons.

And I doubt I'm qualified.. Perhaps up to high school level, but after that, it would be a tall order to match the knowledge base of a dozen or more different teachers in their own specialties.


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## Murby

farmerDale said:


> My opinion is such that no one but the parents should give a rip how the kids are educated, least of all "highly educated" people who think a degree somehow makes you "smarter".


Umm.. A degree does make you smarter.. Every bit of education you get, (formal or not), will make you smarter.

You infer that is not the case.. very puzzling.


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## AngieM2

Good luck and stick to your guns. These days home is so much better than the schools telling you how to raise your children.

All the home schooled children I know are so much more mannered, smarter, and not as concerned with latest music groups, or gameboys, etc. 

Best wishes.


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## Raeven

Iâve never understood why one thing had to preclude the other.

In my family, we all attended public school. I learned a lot there. My parents also never stopped teaching. I learned a lot at home, too. 

Attending public school exposes children to many varied situations, people and ways of thinking â a critical skill in learning how to compromise and how to get along with others who donât necessarily see the world the same way you do. At home, manners are taught, as are values, and anything else a parent thinks is important.

Why not give them the best of both worlds?

My experience with home schooled kids is that their parents are trying to shield them from certain knowledge and control access to what they learn, rather than trying to give them a better education. Many of those kids have to deal with this deficiency later on in life, and frequently to their detriment.

Both types of learning are invaluable for a well-rounded education, in my opinion.


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## Laura Zone 5

I wanted to home school when the kids were in 1rst, K, and pre school.

I caved to peer pressure. 

God gave me a second chance.
When they finished their 6th, 5th and 3rd grade year at public school, I pullled them, and home educated to graduation.
My oldest has a degree and will be going back for a second this year.
My son is still at a University, this is his Senior year.
My youngest chose a different path, but did one semester at a local community college.

I heard it all and I was not nice in my rebuttal after my first "thank you for your concern, but this is what we are doing".

They are MY children whom I am responsible for........so yeah, poop on peer pressure.

PS: High school drop out am I. GED owner I am. So I sought out someone to help with the tough stuff.
Fortunately, my oldest child is blessed in Math and Science!!


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## SLFarmMI

HomesteadXing said:


> Has anyone else had this problem? I work FT and am often gone throughout the week, but our homeschooling has been going very well as I use several sources to HS our kids (5, 3 and 2) as it doesn't take long and they're all sponges! My husband helps me while I am gone and we use ABC mouse for the younger kids and some other online sources as well as reprintable worksheets, etc. and some I have prepared ahead of time.
> 
> My Mom keeps dropping LARGE hints that I should send my son to public school on the basis that I am gone a lot and she's concerned that he's not getting his learning in and she doesn't consider that my 5 year old is now in 1st grade curriculum!! He's so smart, highly logically minded and LOVES puzzles. My girls are in the same grade, though our 3 year old is catching more onto her writing than our 2 year old (still doing more shapes and colors there and working on her speech).
> 
> I guess I am having a lot of trouble with the pressure I am getting from family about sending my kids to Public School, not only do I NOT agree with the "common core" crap, it's also with the myriad of things going on in our schools (more local stuff here than anything) and besides, we have more freedom to take the kids wherever and whenever without having to schedule them being gone from school, etc.
> 
> Just...it's aggrivating, does anyone else have this problem? Did you give in or stick to it? I have been sticking with this for the last 5 years and it's beginning to wear from family at least once a month dropping a hint. My husband and I are VERY firm though, that we will homeschool (some unschooling as well) I just wish that my family would be on board as well gre:


As a parent, no matter the subject or what you're doing, there will always be someone out there to tell you that you're doing it wrong. My response it usually, "Thank you for your concern. I'll take that under advisement." It works well.

That being said, I can see your mother's concerns. If you are working full time and are gone throughout the week, it is going to be extremely difficult to get everything in. And while, ABC Mouse is a good website, it is no substitute for good instruction. I would also caution against the use of a lot of worksheets as they really aren't developmentally appropriate for children that young.

Not to sidetrack the thread, but I would be curious about what your concerns about Common Core are. I've found that many people who are vocal in opposition to Common Core are operating under the belief that they are a teaching method or teaching materials which they are not so I was curious about your take.


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## farmerDale

Murby said:


> Umm.. A degree does make you smarter.. Every bit of education you get, (formal or not), will make you smarter.
> 
> You infer that is not the case.. very puzzling.


A degree simply means you were able to parrot back what you were fed if you apply yourself. It does not make you smarter. I have a lot of family members with degrees, who are not very smart at all in most ways.

A certain couple in my family have their education degrees. But I would NEVER want them to teach my kids, because they are simply not smart. AT ALL. Some of the things they say are astounding. 

So they passed their tests in university, went through the motions, but it means nothing to the bottom line of how "smart" they are.

My sisters have degrees. I do not. Not trying to toot my own horn here, but they tell me I am the smartest in my family. I beat them at board games as a matter of course. I know far more about the world around me than they do, and they readily concede this fact. 

The two I mentioned with their education degrees, also recognize this fact. As they astound me with their lack of smarts, they are astounded that a mere farmer like I, could know as much as I do.

So no, a degree does not make you smarter. I suppose in theory it should, but it simply doesn't seem to work that way among the people I know. Maybe my situation is unique.

Finally, the dolts that taught me in school, I would NEVER let teach my kids, NEVER.


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## Murby

AngieM2 said:


> Good luck and stick to your guns. These days home is so much better than the schools telling you how to raise your children.
> 
> All the home schooled children I know are so much more mannered, smarter, and not as concerned with latest music groups, or gameboys, etc.
> 
> Best wishes.


That is a very valid point... Fewer worries about drugs, peer pressure, communicable ailments, etc etc etc. 

There's no doubt that even in the face of possibly falling short on the academics, the lack of the negative influences may be a beneficial trade off.


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## mzgarden

There are so many areas parents need to decide what's best for their particular children and then stand their ground on their choices. Evaluate your criteria for your children's success (grade level, growth, social skills, desire to continue to home school, etc.) Then evaluate your children against this criteria frequently. If at any point homeschooling success criteria are not being met for one or more of your children - reconsider your approach.
Homeschooling a child can not be a decision based entirely on emotional or anecdotal information. Clear goals with measurable milestones need to be written down and evaluated. As your children age, they may have inputs you will need to listen to as well.
People never agree with all the decisions a parent makes for their children. It is the responsibility of the parent to be clear-eyed and vigilant with their children's long and short term best interests guiding the decision making.

Best of luck.


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## Murby

farmerDale said:


> A degree simply means you were able to parrot back what you were fed if you apply yourself. It does not make you smarter. I have a lot of family members with degrees, who are not very smart at all in most ways.


Your sample size is ridiculously small. While some degree's don't require your brain to comprehend new concepts (History, English, Social Studies, etc etc), and thus won't force you to expand your mind past memorization of facts and figures, most other degrees will. 

Pretty much all technical and science related studies will require new comprehension of concepts you were previously not exposed to. Those new concepts will absolutely make you a smarter person and it is the type of thing where the sum is far greater than the parts. 

I perform duties every day that where never part of my education because the concepts and comprehension I have acquired allow me to extrapolate and adapt. This would not be possible without the knowledge gained from the education.



> A certain couple in my family have their education degrees. But I would NEVER want them to teach my kids, because they are simply not smart. AT ALL. Some of the things they say are astounding.


You know, I fully agree with you here.. Teaching is as much art as it is science. You can have all the education needed but if you don't have "the gift", it makes for a poor teacher. 



> So they passed their tests in university, went through the motions, but it means nothing to the bottom line of how "smart" they are.


Yes, it does happen.. I've met other engineers who were idiots.. 



> My sisters have degrees. I do not. Not trying to toot my own horn here, but they tell me I am the smartest in my family. I beat them at board games as a matter of course. I know far more about the world around me than they do, and they readily concede this fact.
> 
> The two I mentioned with their education degrees, also recognize this fact. As they astound me with their lack of smarts, they are astounded that a mere farmer like I, could know as much as I do.


I have little doubt about what you say here.. A degree is not guaranteed to make you smarter any more than an aspirin is guaranteed to cure a headache.. 



> So no, a degree does not make you smarter. I suppose in theory it should, but it simply doesn't seem to work that way among the people I know. Maybe my situation is unique..


While I wouldn't say your situation is unique, a degree will normally make a person smarter, so you're wrong about that part.

But you are correct in one thing.. As the (late?) George Carlin said, "You can't fix stupid" And there's a bit of substance to that... So ya,, send a stupid person to college and they'll still be stupid if/when they get out. But that's not normally what happens.


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## HomesteadXing

I want to thank you all for your replies and opinions and the overall encouragement! This has given me quite a bit to think about. Also, though I am gone throughout the week (not EVERY week mind you) I do offset during the weekends and in the evenings. For example, my son asked me if he can do more math before bed and I had told him he could after he worked on his reading and spelling (his weak point, he enjoys math) and so after that reading and spelling was finished then he worked on his math worksheet. I don't feed my kids worksheets all the time and ABC mouse is only used as an extra to the work we do at home. I do a lot of hands on learning with our school work so that my kids who are mostly see and do learners though my oldest daughter is also auditory as well as visual and hands on.

I take it at their pace and yes, we have had to redo some areas of learning, but that's why I encourage them daily (as does Daddy) to practice, keep trying and if it doesn't work one way, try another way until it does- learn to think and figure things out for themselves not just be little copy machines that can print, print, print. 

As for education? I think a College degree, unless it is in Childhood Development and Education doesn't necessarily award a person with the "credentials" to teach them. As another poster had mentioned, a lot of college graduates are smart they just knew how to pass a test- like many of us were taught in school. (My husband and I both went to and graduated from Public School and we both hold college degrees. )

I hold 3 degrees in Business Management, Business Technology Management, and Entrepreneurship. Does that automatically qualify me to teach other children? Not really. I _know_ my children, their likes, their faults, their strengths, their aspirations even at this age. I know them and that makes a difference. 

My kids are also knowledgeable about the world as well as we teach them common sense as we go about our daily routines. Grocery stores - we're teaching them about healthy foods, how to shop and look for good produce, etc. We make learning a daily experience and add a lot of fun with it. Now, are we still parents? YUP! They know the difference when it's time to "have school" and our normal daily lives. We work it in, but they do know the difference and there is structure. 

Social interaction: Playground, church functions, Sunday School class, their playtime together at home (disagreements arise and they are learning to work it out together), and many other places, such as when we go swimming and there's other kids around, out shopping on how to be polite and talk with others, etc. We do not harbor our children in fear of the "outside" world, but there is a lot that we do not agree with concerning public school. (I think a list of what we disagree on would make for a fairly long post lol.)


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## FireMaker

Keep doing what you are inclined to do. We home schooled our son all the way through. He got a 32 act score and is a 2nd LT in the Army. He had no HS diploma. He has a history education degree. He Is teacher certified and was not impressed with the public education system. He will never go there and he is an exceptional teacher. He as offers a sub job after student teaching. He was freed a real job after graduation. Family and others need to butt out. Check out HSLDA - home school legal defense association.


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## Darren

I don't know what happened to education. The "system" isn't working for many kids. It used to be that finishing high school qualified you to teach. At some point teachers' colleges were set up. Kids still graduated knowing how to read, write and do math.

Now it seems teachers go for master degrees and kids graduate without being able to do what smart fifth and sixth graders did long ago. My hat's off to those who home school.


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## Bret

Take all the time you want when you feel pressured by anyone to do anything. Do not take advice from people you don't know. Wait...you don't...


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## FarmerKat

*Do what is right for your children and for your family. *I bet that even if you were independently wealthy and both you and DH were staying home without need to work, you would be hearing objections from the same people in your family. They would just be using a different reason than your job. 

The beautiful thing about homeschooling is the flexibility. Who says education must happen between 8 AM and 3 PM just like public school? You can hire a baby-sitter while you are at work and homeschool when you are home. You don't mention your husband's schedule ... you and your husband can homeschool together, it does not have to be solely one of the parents.

I also know of a family who hire a live-in tutor to homeschool their children (assuming that is a legal option in your state). They are both doctors and decide what curriculum is taught but their children are taught while they work. They, of course, participate during their time off. 

I would also suggest that you find a local homeschool group so that you can get support from people right where you live. It can be very helpful to be part of the homeschool community if your family is hostile to the idea. 

Best wishes to you


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## WoodsDweller

Murby said:


> My opinion on this is that if the parents don't have 4 year college degree's, they have no business trying to educate their own children.. Beyond normal parent stuff that is.
> 
> If you're educated, and if you're testing your kids to make sure they are keeping up and could compete with an equal from a public school, then tell your mom to go jump in a lake.



Some of the stupidest people I've ever met had 4 year + degrees. 

Time spent in a classroom does not make one intelligent.


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## Murby

WoodsDweller said:


> Some of the stupidest people I've ever met had 4 year + degrees.
> 
> Time spent in a classroom does not make one intelligent.


Where did you go to college? Did it not make you smarter?


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## HomesteadXing

FarmerKat said:


> *Do what is right for your children and for your family. *I bet that even if you were independently wealthy and both you and DH were staying home without need to work, you would be hearing objections from the same people in your family. They would just be using a different reason than your job.
> 
> The beautiful thing about homeschooling is the flexibility. Who says education must happen between 8 AM and 3 PM just like public school? You can hire a baby-sitter while you are at work and homeschool when you are home. You don't mention your husband's schedule ... you and your husband can homeschool together, it does not have to be solely one of the parents.
> 
> I also know of a family who hire a live-in tutor to homeschool their children (assuming that is a legal option in your state). They are both doctors and decide what curriculum is taught but their children are taught while they work. They, of course, participate during their time off.
> 
> I would also suggest that you find a local homeschool group so that you can get support from people right where you live. It can be very helpful to be part of the homeschool community if your family is hostile to the idea.
> 
> Best wishes to you


Thanks! My husband is actually a stay at home Dad (I'm blessed!) though he is working on his company right now, he does that from home and it's just in the beginning stages so there's not a lot of scheduling going on between us. As for hiring someone? We don't have a lot of people that we trust to watch our kids since they're so young. We have the grandparents and that's about it, but we have had to call on them from time to time, but for the most part it's just us.


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## FarmerKat

HomesteadXing said:


> Thanks! My husband is actually a stay at home Dad (I'm blessed!) though he is working on his company right now, he does that from home and it's just in the beginning stages so there's not a lot of scheduling going on between us. As for hiring someone? We don't have a lot of people that we trust to watch our kids since they're so young. We have the grandparents and that's about it, but we have had to call on them from time to time, but for the most part it's just us.


You are welcome. In this case, you working away from home is really a moot point.  My husband works away from home now, I work on our business (in start up stages too), manage our rental and sell things from my little farm. I am the primary homeschooling parent. For a few months our roles were reversed and my husband took over the homeschooling. We are hoping that by next year my husband can stay home and we can make a living from our business. Then we will both work - along with our children - while we homeschool.


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## HomesteadXing

FarmerKat said:


> You are welcome. In this case, you working away from home is really a moot point.  My husband works away from home now, I work on our business (in start up stages too), manage our rental and sell things from my little farm. I am the primary homeschooling parent. For a few months our roles were reversed and my husband took over the homeschooling. We are hoping that by next year my husband can stay home and we can make a living from our business. Then we will both work - along with our children - while we homeschool.


That's a lot like our goals too, we would like to keep the kids with us while we go places whether it's for my job or my husbands profession, all the while homeschooling. Good to know there's more people with like minds out there on this! [prophead]


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## WoodsDweller

Murby said:


> Where did you go to college? Did it not make you smarter?



A wealthy man can pay for education but he cannot buy common sense.


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## Murby

WoodsDweller said:


> A wealthy man can pay for education but he cannot buy common sense.


Not going to answer my question? Or was that your sly way of avoiding it because you never went to college?


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## MoBookworm1957

I went to college. I personally know a lot of book smart people, but are dumber than a box of rocks in common sense. And three of these college degree people are teachers. I pulled my children out of their classes for safety reasons.


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## MoBookworm1957

My main education came from life,Army.


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## WoodsDweller

Murby said:


> Not going to answer my question? Or was that your sly way of avoiding it because you never went to college?



It's my sly way of letting you know it's not any of your business and is irrelevant to the point. 

My intial reply to you was that some of the stupidest people I've ever met were 4+ year college graduates. That's a fact. 

You can't buy common sense. There are some people in this world that could sit through 20 years of college and still be as dumb as a football bat.


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## Laura Zone 5

You can't learn common sense, respect, self control, tact, manners, civics, compassion, empathy, morals, true ethics, sense of community, etc at college.

My middle son is at a University and is stunned, amazed and grossly disappointed in his generations lack of basic human skills.......


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## oneraddad

It's always the uneducated that say the educated have no common sense.


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## Murby

WoodsDweller said:


> It's my sly way of letting you know it's not any of your business and is irrelevant to the point.
> 
> My intial reply to you was that some of the stupidest people I've ever met were 4+ year college graduates. That's a fact.
> 
> You can't buy common sense. There are some people in this world that could sit through 20 years of college and still be as dumb as a football bat.


Common sense isn't taught in schools.. its taught by the parents.. so no matter if a kid goes to public school or is home schooled, the teaching of common sense is not the issue here.

Schools teach technical knowledge.. facts, figures, and various other academic types of study. 

If one doesn't have the academic background to pass on to the student, where will the student get it from? 

You can have all the common sense in the world, but if you're unfamiliar with how to resolve a basic algebra equation, or you don't understand basic biology like cell structure, or you don't understand why the periodic table of elements looks the way it does, then what is going to become of your student?

An academic background is an absolute necessity if the parents want their children to be able to compete later in life. If the parent lacks the education, the kid is going to be as uneducated as the parents.. 

Common sense won't get you a job and is never listed on a resume.


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## Murby

oneraddad said:


> It's always the uneducated that say the educated have no common sense.


I was going to say that but didn't want to start a fight in that sense. Got to be nice outside of the Dark Room forums.


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## WoodsDweller

Murby said:


> Common sense isn't taught in schools.. its taught by the parents.. so no matter if a kid goes to public school or is home schooled, the teaching of common sense is not the issue here.


What's more important in your eyes? Real world, common sense intelligence or a government mandated curriculum that dictates how and what a public school system should educate?





Murby said:


> Schools teach technical knowledge.. facts, figures, and various other academic types of study.


So do parents who homeschool. You do realize that most states do have minimum standards, lesson plans and testing for homeschooled children don't you?





Murby said:


> If one doesn't have the academic background to pass on to the student, where will the student get it from?


 Who says they don't? A college degree in agriculture does not make you a trigonometry expert. Public schools pass on far worse things to kids that they "don't" need than they will get at home, I assure you. 





Murby said:


> You can have all the common sense in the world, but if you're unfamiliar with how to resolve a basic algebra equation, or you don't understand basic biology like cell structure, or you don't understand why the periodic table of elements looks the way it does, then what is going to become of your student?


 Who says parents do not know such things? Who says parents cannot research and educate themselves about such things? Any parent who cares enough about their kids future not to expose them to the chaos and agenda driven public school system would surely go out of their way to do the best for their child possible. 

Public education isn't always what's best. A child is far better cared for by a parent with no college but who is driven to provide for their kids to the best of their abilities, than a college educated parent who has public schools babysit for them so they can play on Facebook at the office all day or shove their kid a 600 dollar cellphone and unrestricted Internet usage like most do these days. That's parenting and education right? Give me a break. 





Murby said:


> An academic background is an absolute necessity if the parents want their children to be able to compete later in life. If the parent lacks the education, the kid is going to be as uneducated as the parents..


 When you learn how to punctuate and organize basic sentence structure get back with me about all that. 





Murby said:


> Common sense won't get you a job and is never listed on a resume.



Common sense will keep you alive and also give you a much broader intelligence about how the real world operates. Public school will help you know a book lesson mandated by the government but there is no substitute for real life experience. Look around at interviews with current college kids.

Football bat is the majority.


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## WoodsDweller

oneraddad said:


> It's always the uneducated that say the educated have no common sense.



Incorrect.


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## WoodsDweller

Murby said:


> I was going to say that but didn't want to start a fight in that sense. Got to be nice outside of the Dark Room forums.



No need. I'll be glad to meet you in the dark rooms and discuss it.


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## Shin

A lot of folks who go to college come out dumber than when they went in.


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## WoodsDweller

Shin said:


> A lot of folks who go to college come out dumber than when they went in.



Same as a public highschool anymore. It's really sad.


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## Laura Zone 5

WoodsDweller said:


> Incorrect.


That crappy comment was directed at me. 
He has made it a point to make a crappy comment on almost every post I make. 
He must have an Uncle that runs the board, cause he gets away with it....


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## Laura Zone 5

I have seen some pretty odd homeschooled kids too.

When we did the annual used book sale for the home schooling community in a county north of me, my kids were freaked out.
They said it was like a room full of kids from the movie "Children of the Corn".

They were VERY different than my kids insomuch that they were only socialized with other home schooled kids.......
Mine were trained at home, but interacted with the world.

So there are 2 sides to every coin.
Extremes and absolutes (always, never) are not good.


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## WoodsDweller

Laura Zone 5 said:


> That crappy comment was directed at me.
> He has made it a point to make a crappy comment on almost every post I make.
> He must have an Uncle that runs the board, cause he gets away with it....



As Forrest Gump would say........

Stupid is as stupid does.


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## rxkeith

as a home school parent, i say keep doing what you are doing if it works for you.
to your mom, tell her my kids, my rules. repeat as needed. your mom may have very little knowledge of home schooling. i see how public school kids act compared to my son and other home schoolers we know, and i am so glad we are educating our son the way we are. no amount of pressure from a family member would change our minds. we haven't had any pressure of the kind, just some initial concerns from some. thats all history now because they see how our son has developed.

home school groups can be helpful. ours is a diversified group. you don't need a college education, just the ability and desire to learn along with your kid. kids like to learn. public school tends to beat that desire out of them.

stick to your guns. there is only pressure if you allow it to be.



keith


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## Murby

Very interesting reading about Homeschooling vs Public School
http://www.parentingscience.com/homeschooling-outcomes.html


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## FarmerKat

Murby said:


> Very interesting reading about Homeschooling vs Public School
> http://www.parentingscience.com/homeschooling-outcomes.html


That is an interesting article. I would have loved to see the same study for the next age group (over 10) - especially when it comes to structured vs unstructured homeschoolers. I don't believe in what I would call "early formal/structured education" (early being under 8-10 years old) and know many like me. The children who were considered behind at age 5, may perform just as well at a later age.


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## Annes

Murby said:


> Electrical Engineer.. +25 years as an Industrial Process Design Engineer.


That sounds fun.

I think we have a different understanding of what home school is. Overall, home schoolers donât write the curriculum they use. We donât write every lesson for every day for every subject from scratch. We donât build a scope and sequence for every year, or plan out which part of which discipline / bulk of knowledge will be covered when. 

Well, we do that, but not in the way a publishing house would, or in the way some very skilled and gifted curriculum authors would do.

We donât reinvent the wheel. 

We use the resources of publishing houses and the skills and writings of gifted educators, who are willing to share with us, and we apply them to our children. 

Sometimes we choose spiral curricula. Others times learning is sequential or logical. Sometimes we just run out into the woods cold and try to figure out the differences between a deciduous leaf and a pine needle. 

Asking our kids,
_What is the closest point between Spain and Morocco, and what is significant about that place? _ gets them researching, learning, thinking, figuring and remembering more and longer than the kid who is simply told about the Straits of Gibraltar.

We took our kids out of schools that were indoctrinating them into whichever social activity was vogue at that moment, or because we realized that they didnât fit the way schools teach today, or we saw that they were not being taught at all. Ask your local middle school honor student what a predicate is. 

You probably know, but most of them donât. With all due respect, 25 years was a long time ago. Schools donât teach what you learned anymore.

We want our children educated. The school isnât doing it, so we step up and do it ourselves. We assess our children and find out exactly what they need. We begin there. If our middle school kid needs third grade grammar, that is what we put him in. And we teach him what a predicate is. 

We continuously look at the success of any lesson, at the school table and in life. We change and adapt to make sure our children learn. 

I cannot tell you the dollar amount of curriculum I have passed on to others, and have had passed onto me, because something I bought for my ADD/ADHD guy did not work with my dyslexic or something I bought for both did not work with my normal learning child. We change to meet our children. Schools cannot do that. They teach to the level of the lowest student now. 

And as for your various disciplines? I am teaching English to children of a friend of mine; it is not her strong area. Another friend is teaching Physics to a different of group of kids. Still another is teaching social morals and exploring worldviews with a different bunch of kids. 

We have programming classes, art classes, robotics. We have to turn down invitations to classes so we can stay home and learn basics. 

Home school students take dance classes. They do debate teams and sports. Groups of mothers get together and pay teachers to teach their kids what they do not know how to do. Cooperatives have grown up out of those desires. 

Our children are important to us. We want them prepared. When we see the schools not doing it, we do. When we find ourselves deficient, we find other ways. We are home schoolers. We get learning done.


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## FarmerKat

Annes, that is a great post. Thank you for taking time to write all that


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## Murby

Annes said:


> That sounds fun.


It lets me use my creative skills and superior ingenuity to build stuff that does stuff.
It's also made me fat around the waist due to the number of hours spent in front of a computer. 

As for the rest of your post.. it sounds like you've taken homeschooling to a highly respectable level and have exploited your resources by banding together with others to increase the sum of the knowledge base available to the children.

This is part of what I was worried about.. I don't believe that even an above average single individual or set of parents would normally ever be able to provide the knowledge base required to educate a child. 
My wife speaks 5 languages, has a degree in economics, holds dual citizenship, and is quite well rounded in world culture and affairs. I am technically orientated beyond the average person. 
Put our talents together, and I am still not confident we could provide the knowledge base needed for a good education. Two educated people are no match for a dozen or more. 

But it sounds like you've solved these challenges.. in fact, by your post, it almost sounds as if you've conjured up your own little quasi- private school.

So let me ask a question.. are you the norm? I ask that because I'd like to know where the extreme ends of the spectrum are at.... I have visions of two Amish parents with their log cabin in the middle of a 500 acre plot of land who pray to the sky and teach their children bible studies as their source of educational material.. ya.. that's probably an inaccurate vision but I think I get my point across.

Thank you for your lengthy post.. it was well worth the read and very informative.. it also relieves some concern. 

One other thing that I wonder about.. I'm no spring chicken, been around for a while.. and as far back as I can remember, older folks have always complained that "kids these days.. " .. The two most prevalent complaints are that they're stupid and that they're spoiled, weak or coddled. 
"I used to walk to school in bare feet, up hill, in the snow!" We've all heard that one before.

I have to wonder how much of this common core issue is related to preconceived notions or how much is legit.


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## FarmerKat

Murby said:


> It lets me use my creative skills and superior ingenuity to build stuff that does stuff.
> It's also made me fat around the waist due to the number of hours spent in front of a computer.
> 
> As for the rest of your post.. it sounds like you've taken homeschooling to a highly respectable level and have exploited your resources by banding together with others to increase the sum of the knowledge base available to the children.
> 
> This is part of what I was worried about.. I don't believe that even an above average single individual or set of parents would normally ever be able to provide the knowledge base required to educate a child.
> My wife speaks 5 languages, has a degree in economics, holds dual citizenship, and is quite well rounded in world culture and affairs. I am technically orientated beyond the average person.
> Put our talents together, and I am still not confident we could provide the knowledge base needed for a good education. Two educated people are no match for a dozen or more.
> 
> But it sounds like you've solved these challenges.. in fact, by your post, it almost sounds as if you've conjured up your own little quasi- private school.
> 
> So let me ask a question.. are you the norm? I ask that because I'd like to know where the extreme ends of the spectrum are at.... I have visions of two Amish parents with their log cabin in the middle of a 500 acre plot of land who pray to the sky and teach their children bible studies as their source of educational material.. ya.. that's probably an inaccurate vision but I think I get my point across.
> 
> Thank you for your lengthy post.. it was well worth the read and very informative.. it also relieves some concern.
> 
> One other thing that I wonder about.. I'm no spring chicken, been around for a while.. and as far back as I can remember, older folks have always complained that "kids these days.. " .. The two most prevalent complaints are that they're stupid and that they're spoiled, weak or coddled.
> "I used to walk to school in bare feet, up hill, in the snow!" We've all heard that one before.
> 
> I have to wonder how much of this common core issue is related to preconceived notions or how much is legit.


I don't know the poster personally but among the people we know (including our family), this type of homeschooling is the norm.


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## SLFarmMI

Murby said:


> It lets me use my creative skills and superior ingenuity to build stuff that does stuff.
> It's also made me fat around the waist due to the number of hours spent in front of a computer.
> 
> As for the rest of your post.. it sounds like you've taken homeschooling to a highly respectable level and have exploited your resources by banding together with others to increase the sum of the knowledge base available to the children.
> 
> This is part of what I was worried about.. I don't believe that even an above average single individual or set of parents would normally ever be able to provide the knowledge base required to educate a child.
> My wife speaks 5 languages, has a degree in economics, holds dual citizenship, and is quite well rounded in world culture and affairs. I am technically orientated beyond the average person.
> Put our talents together, and I am still not confident we could provide the knowledge base needed for a good education. Two educated people are no match for a dozen or more.
> 
> But it sounds like you've solved these challenges.. in fact, by your post, it almost sounds as if you've conjured up your own little quasi- private school.
> 
> So let me ask a question.. are you the norm? I ask that because I'd like to know where the extreme ends of the spectrum are at.... I have visions of two Amish parents with their log cabin in the middle of a 500 acre plot of land who pray to the sky and teach their children bible studies as their source of educational material.. ya.. that's probably an inaccurate vision but I think I get my point across.
> 
> Thank you for your lengthy post.. it was well worth the read and very informative.. it also relieves some concern.
> 
> One other thing that I wonder about.. I'm no spring chicken, been around for a while.. and as far back as I can remember, older folks have always complained that "kids these days.. " .. The two most prevalent complaints are that they're stupid and that they're spoiled, weak or coddled.
> "I used to walk to school in bare feet, up hill, in the snow!" We've all heard that one before.
> 
> I have to wonder how much of this common core issue is related to preconceived notions or how much is legit.


In my experience, most people who are vigorously opposed to Common Core State Standards have not actually read them. There is a pervasive belief that CC has to do with teaching methodology or curriculum materials. They do not. I've read the CC standards. I have an issue with some of the standards but that has to do with some of them being, imo, developmentally inappropriate for the grade level they are placed in. 

As with every other type of education, homeschooling runs the gamut of quality. Some homeschoolers are excellent, some are average and some are terrible.


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## rxkeith

there was a you tube video where mark dice was asking people in san diego, ca questions related to our 4th of july celebration.

most people couldn't even answer correctly what country we fought to win our independence. after a couple minutes of watching, my 12 yr old son said, wow, and people think home schoolers are stupid.

i stopped comparing how home schoolers perform to traditionally educated students. my son didn't really start reading until he was 7 to 8 yrs old.
but, he knew all the u.s presidents from watching the pbs series on the presidents while playing with his legos on the floor. he knows how many were generals, and on and on. he learned some russian history after watching peter the great, french history after watching a series on napoleon. now that he is reading, he has read several dickens books. he has read moby dick, billy bud, dracula to name a few. he is currently reading kim, and les miserables. he has performed in the home school drama club for five years. the most recent play he was in was 12 angry men. my wife directed it. watch the studio one live presentation from the early 50s. its a free down load. thats what they did. it was a really good performance.
home schooled kids may be behind in some subjects, but way ahead in others compared to public school kids. so, what does comparing prove?

you can look at a hundred home schooling families, and each family could be approaching educating their kids in a different manner. its all good. well most of it is good. home schooled kids tend to learn what they need to learn when they need to learn it. one student who was home schooled until his junior year didn't really study math at all until he decided to attend high school his last two years.
he got straight As, and a full ride scholarship to the college he is now attending.

i don't worry about my child being socialized. i know he is sociable. he is comfortable in many settings. he is very well behaved. teen years are coming, so hang on. 
i don't worry about how will my child compete with school kids. its more like how will they compete with him. 
family members who are concerned about home schooling need to spend some time with other home schooled kids. it will be an eye opening experience.



keith


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## Annes

FarmerKat said:


> I don't know the poster personally but among the people we know (including our family), this type of homeschooling is the norm.


Yes it is.
Murby,
I will get back to your post shortly.


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## Annes

Murby said:


> It lets me use my creative skills and superior ingenuity to build stuff that does stuff.
> It's also made me fat around the waist due to the number of hours spent in front of a computer.
> 
> As for the rest of your post.. it sounds like you've taken homeschooling to a highly respectable level and have exploited your resources by banding together with others to increase the sum of the knowledge base available to the children.
> 
> This is part of what I was worried about.. I don't believe that even an above average single individual or set of parents would normally ever be able to provide the knowledge base required to educate a child.
> My wife speaks 5 languages, has a degree in economics, holds dual citizenship, and is quite well rounded in world culture and affairs. I am technically orientated beyond the average person.
> Put our talents together, and I am still not confident we could provide the knowledge base needed for a good education. Two educated people are no match for a dozen or more.
> 
> _But it sounds like you've solved these challenges.. in fact, by your post, it almost sounds as if you've conjured up your own little quasi- private school.
> _
> _"So let me ask a question.. are you the norm? "_ I ask that because I'd like to know where the extreme ends of the spectrum are at.... I have visions of two Amish parents with their log cabin in the middle of a 500 acre plot of land who pray to the sky and teach their children bible studies as their source of educational material.. ya.. that's probably an inaccurate vision but I think I get my point across.
> 
> Thank you for your lengthy post.. it was well worth the read and very informative.. it also relieves some concern.
> 
> One other thing that I wonder about.. I'm no spring chicken, been around for a while.. and as far back as I can remember, older folks have always complained that "kids these days.. " The two most prevalent complaints are that they're stupid and that they're spoiled, weak or coddled.
> "I used to walk to school in bare feet, up hill, in the snow!" We've all heard that one before.
> 
> I have to wonder how much of this common core issue is related to preconceived notions or how much is legit.


I have quoted the first few words of each idea I am responding to. 

_âCreative skill. . .â_ Iâm glad you found somewhere to use it. It is all ways excellent to love what you do. 

_âPart of what I was worried about. . .â_
Why are you worried? If we continue teaching our children will it cause a problem for you? 

_âMy wife speaks 5 languages. . .â_
I am pleased that you and your wife have so many skills. It must make your home a wonderfully rich learning environment. 

_âI am still not confident we could provide the knowledge base needed for a good education. Two educated people are no match for a dozen or more. . .â
_
And I am still not confident that you understand what homes school is. Perhaps the end result that I see and the end result that you see are too different. 

â_Quazi private schoolâ¦ Conjuredâ¦â_ I have to ask, really? 

Would it surprise you to learn that my children are students of a private school? I do the teaching. I choose the curriculum. I set the schedule. I decide what gets taught when. My friends and I share some of the teaching. My children take some classes at that private school itself, as well as from other places. 

Our private school is for home school students only. It is run by educators and plain people, who believe in home schooling. The special education consultant is a dear friend of mine. 

We go through bi-yearly portfolio reviews. My children are interviewed. We send in monthly reports. They earn high school credits and receive state issued diplomas. My goal is to educate my children. If these people can help me do that, I will avail myself of their talents. 

âSo let me ask a question.. are you the norm?â
Yes, I am the norm. Some are more radical than me. Some do not teach their children much at all. Every discipline has extremes. I will tell you that the waiting list to get into our home school private school is three years long. 

I am sorry to say, I do not understand much of the rest of your post.
_âSpring chickenâ¦ Up hill in the snowâ_ ? I do not know what you are trying to convey. 

With your common core reference, are you suggesting children are pulled from public school because of common core? 

I know of one family that brought their children home because of it. 

I know of three families that home school without the assistance of others and use their own knowledge base to educate their childrenânot writing their own curriculum, just teaching the packages they have chosen. Their children might be less educated than mine in art or fencing, but they are significantly better educated than the average high school student. 
I invite you to take a look at what the average high school student knows today. What they donât know is largely why many of us home school.


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## Murby

Thanks for your response Annes.

Very informative..


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## doozie

Your kids, your guidance. 

Myself, I just couldn't imagine the nightmare I would have endured being taught by my parents, yes, my very well meaning parents.

I also can't imagine myself being a very good educator of my kids past a certain age, without a fierce commitment, and a lot of additional help, and resources to be sure they would get a well rounded experience, maybe the future is her concern?

I guess I would point out the positive experiences described in this thread, and then tell her to drop the subject.


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## bluemoonluck

My mother has both a bachelor's and a master's in education. She taught in the classroom for 25+ years. 

My sister has a bachelor's in education, and she's a National Board Certified Teacher. She's been in the classroom for almost 20 years.

I have a master's in adolescent counseling, and I worked with teenagers for a number of years.

My biggest issue with the public school system is that they expect so much from kids so young. When I started Kindergarten in 1980, I was one of a handful of kids in my class who knew the alphabet, and one of 2 or 3 who knew how to read a little. Now the kids in that grade level are being taught what used to be 1st grade work, and even pre-k is teaching kids more than we were expected to know in Kindergarten. Kids who arrive in Kindy not knowing the alphabet and how to read are considered behind now!! That boggles my mind.

Those younger kids aren't supposed to be getting drilled for tests! They're supposed to be learning through play, learning compassion, improving social skills, and doing very basic stuff. I'm hesitant to put my very active (likely ADHD) son in the public schools in 2017 when he'll be 5, because I know they are going to focus on "sit down, shut your mouth, and listen" while they shove information into his face.

By the time kids get to 3rd or 4th grade, this seems to have leveled off, and the kids are learning the same level of information that I learned back in the 80s in those grades. So for me, I'm considering homeschooling my younger 2 boys through 2nd grade. Most adults who have graduated high school know enough about math, science, history, English, etc to read a packeted curriculum and teach their kids that information.

I went to school with a family who homeschooled through 8th grade, then went to public high school for 9-12 grades. All the kids were well adjusted, had great social skills, were in advanced level classes and doing well academically, etc. Obviously what their family was doing worked for them!

I think the bottom line is, everyone has their own thoughts regarding what is proper and adequate education for their children. Some are 100% comfortable sending their kids off to public school from age 5 on up....others are 100% comfortable homeschooling their kids from K-12....others are somewhere in the middle. Figure out where you fall on that continuum and DO IT. Tell your Mom "Mom, I hear your concerns and I do respect your opinion, but RIGHT NOW what I'm doing is working for my children & my family. Please don't bring this subject up again." 

Good luck!!


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## FarmerKat

I wanted to add one more thing for the OP ... when we started talking about homeschooling, my mom was concerned. Living in a country where homeschooling is legal but very uncommon, she has never even heard about it. Her concerns would be along the lines of:

How do you know that they know what they are supposed to know? Should they not supervise your homeschool? How can you be allowed to homeschool without having to test your kids to make sure they know what they are supposed to. And how, as a parent, are you objectively going to grade your kids?

My answers to those questions did not alleviate the concerns ... but now that we have been homeschooling for 3 years and she knows how well the kids are doing, she completely changed her tune. What I am trying to say, stick to your guns and let your results speak for themselves. Your family will likely come around.


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## HomesteadXing

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I have seen some pretty odd homeschooled kids too.
> 
> When we did the annual used book sale for the home schooling community in a county north of me, my kids were freaked out.
> They said it was like a room full of kids from the movie "Children of the Corn".
> 
> They were VERY different than my kids insomuch that they were only socialized with other home schooled kids.......
> Mine were trained at home, but interacted with the world.
> 
> So there are 2 sides to every coin.
> Extremes and absolutes (always, never) are not good.


So have I, but that's another reason why we DO have our kids interact with other kids and adults alike. We supervise, but aren't hovering.


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## HomesteadXing

FarmerKat said:


> I wanted to add one more thing for the OP ... when we started talking about homeschooling, my mom was concerned. Living in a country where homeschooling is legal but very uncommon, she has never even heard about it. Her concerns would be along the lines of:
> 
> How do you know that they know what they are supposed to know? Should they not supervise your homeschool? How can you be allowed to homeschool without having to test your kids to make sure they know what they are supposed to. And how, as a parent, are you objectively going to grade your kids?
> 
> My answers to those questions did not alleviate the concerns ... but now that we have been homeschooling for 3 years and she knows how well the kids are doing, she completely changed her tune. What I am trying to say, stick to your guns and let your results speak for themselves. Your family will likely come around.


Thanks and yes I think that's where mine is coming from as well. I hope in time it works out like yours did, lol. Either way, my husband and I are still staying with it, but in the event our kids would like to try public school, we may let them but we'll cross that bridge when we get there


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## greatlakesmom

The way children receive their education is a personal decision to be decided by their parents. Two of my children are in public school and one is home schooled. I have received almost no support in this decision from family, but much support from those who are physically near to us and have watched the results unfold.

My middle child is home schooled because she has sensory processing disorder, diagnosed in the latter half of fourth grade. Her fifth grade teacher dragged her down the hallway while my daughter was frozen in a sensory reaction, and the teacher and principal were "offended" that we were upset by the incident and withdrew her from school. 

I know this child better than any teacher possibly could. I've seen her academic challenges through the years and know her weaknesses which are unrelated to a particular subject. I can address her needs across the curriculum while if she was currently in high school she'd likely be stuck in special ed. (Basing that on our final meeting with the school in fifth grade and their recommendations at the time, plus my knowledge of the educational world.)

How can I judge the school setting? First, I am a parent and have paid attention. Second, I have a four year degree in earth science, having graduated from an education department (our college didn't give degrees in education - you took all those classes and a lot more). Third, my father was a public school teacher and so are at least half of my relatives. I've grown up in the atmosphere.

Not every parent who home schools does a first rate job of it. Neither does every public school teacher. There are many good and crappy in each category, although I believe that the availability of resources has worked to reduce the number of poor home schoolers.

Common Core is not all evil by any means, but there is a lot of data collection and they have messed with the presentation of math greatly. Our fifth grade child was crying over her assignment, my husband (engineering degree with lots of calculus to go with it) finally ended up googling the thing and found that the crazy method being proposed involved having a good idea of the answer before you could begin to solve. My son has brought home a lot of crazy math assignments, and I tried to use the public school common core algebra text and ended up getting a text from the 70's from my father with good old rote practice in it. Suddenly it made sense to my daughter.

Sweeping generalizations don't do much good in any situation, and we home schoolers are under fire so much of the time that we tend to be sensitive.


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## Annsni

Murby said:


> My opinion on this is that if the parents don't have 4 year college degree's, they have no business trying to educate their own children.. Beyond normal parent stuff that is.
> 
> If you're educated, and if you're testing your kids to make sure they are keeping up and could compete with an equal from a public school, then tell your mom to go jump in a lake.


Interesting. I only have a high school degree and so far I have one NY State certified teacher and another heading into her third year of her doctorate of audiology studies. I guess we did OK. 

Statistically, the parent's education plays a role in the success of their kids.....IF they are public schooled but it has NO bearing whatsoever as to the success or failure of homeschooled students. Homeschooled students average above the 80th percentile on standardized tests whereas public school students average the 50th percentile. My children have never scored below an 85th percentile on the California Achievement Tests or the Stanford Achievement tests. 

Bottom line is that a homeschooled parent does not need a 4 year college degree to turn out successful students but public school students need parents with 4 year college degrees AND teachers with at least master's degrees to achieve success (on average).


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## HomesteadXing

greatlakesmom said:


> The way children receive their education is a personal decision to be decided by their parents. Two of my children are in public school and one is home schooled. I have received almost no support in this decision from family, but much support from those who are physically near to us and have watched the results unfold.
> 
> My middle child is home schooled because she has sensory processing disorder, diagnosed in the latter half of fourth grade. Her fifth grade teacher dragged her down the hallway while my daughter was frozen in a sensory reaction, and the teacher and principal were "offended" that we were upset by the incident and withdrew her from school.
> 
> I know this child better than any teacher possibly could. I've seen her academic challenges through the years and know her weaknesses which are unrelated to a particular subject. I can address her needs across the curriculum while if she was currently in high school she'd likely be stuck in special ed. (Basing that on our final meeting with the school in fifth grade and their recommendations at the time, plus my knowledge of the educational world.)
> 
> How can I judge the school setting? First, I am a parent and have paid attention. Second, I have a four year degree in earth science, having graduated from an education department (our college didn't give degrees in education - you took all those classes and a lot more). Third, my father was a public school teacher and so are at least half of my relatives. I've grown up in the atmosphere.
> 
> Not every parent who home schools does a first rate job of it. Neither does every public school teacher. There are many good and crappy in each category, although I believe that the availability of resources has worked to reduce the number of poor home schoolers.
> 
> Common Core is not all evil by any means, but there is a lot of data collection and they have messed with the presentation of math greatly. Our fifth grade child was crying over her assignment, my husband (engineering degree with lots of calculus to go with it) finally ended up googling the thing and found that the crazy method being proposed involved having a good idea of the answer before you could begin to solve. My son has brought home a lot of crazy math assignments, and I tried to use the public school common core algebra text and ended up getting a text from the 70's from my father with good old rote practice in it. Suddenly it made sense to my daughter.
> 
> Sweeping generalizations don't do much good in any situation, and we home schoolers are under fire so much of the time that we tend to be sensitive.



Common Core math is one of the main issues as to why I am not sending our kids to public school. Thanks so much for the encouragement and another view on the topic! 

I'm not a perfect Mom and though I do work and am away from home sometimes (periodic 2-3 days away some weeks). However, in that time my husband substitutes with doing what he can (my son is adamant that Mommy teaches him, girls are fine with Daddy) so we offset and since we teach all the time, whether we're at home or out and about our kids are always learning. We incorporate reading and math into everyday life, not just worksheets only- though we do use those. But so far our kids seem to be well rounded and since they're so young right now we're not into complex subjects just yet. My son just went into 1st grade math and print work, though we're still working on his reading readiness. Our oldest daughter is starting her ABC's and counting to 10 (she does best with visual aids) and our youngest is getting started on colors and shapes, names of animals, etc.


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## greatlakesmom

HomesteadXing - Public school includes a lot of busy work. My area was elementary and I subbed for two years throughout a rural county then a large (metro) suburb, so I saw a lot of different classrooms and teaching styles. Out of necessity, the classwork is geared to the average student. My oldest has spent a lot of "free time" reading once her work was done. The above and below average students lose out. When a child is home schooled, the parent gets to tailor the lessons and work to the child's ability, and it doesn't have to take 6 hours each day. Don't get hung up on the amount of time spent, as long as subjects are being amply covered. (Our local teachers have a lot of movies and parties thrown in which fill time.)

As you are already experiencing, learning is reinforced outside of "class" hours quite often. For example, you may be covering weather and while on a park outing you observe what type of clouds are in the sky. You are the teacher and know exactly what's being covered at all times, so the real world tie-ins happen very naturally.

My daughter is in high school now, and it does help that I went to college but I don't remember everything perfectly. There are wonderful packages available (text book, DVD with short intro lessons, answer books, etc) to help you. You don't have to know everything, you just have to be willing to search out the materials which suit you and your child's needs (and learning style).

One great resource for books and materials, especially for elementary age, is a library book sale. Ours always has the last day as 'fill a grocery sack for $6', and it's been wonderful. The science and history sections are a wealthy resource to borrow from as well. For elementary level physics, our son's third grade teacher had them build paper roller coasters (which can be found on line with a quick google), and that was a great activity.

You and your husband made this decision together and are not neglecting your children's needs. Thick earplugs should be standard issue for home school parents.


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## HomesteadXing

Thanks GreatLakesMom 

Yes, we've used several resources, online, at home in workbooks (I generally get school supplies during the BIG before school sales, Walmart won't let homeschool parents get the discount, but our local Dollar General DOES! so I go there for bulk supplies which last us ALL year.)

I generally get the workbooks from the Scholastic books in Walmart or order online, they're reusable/printable, so generally I only get 1 or 2 per year and work from there with all the kids since they're so close in age. Our libraries here do "fill a sack for $1.00" or maybe at most $3.00/sack but those are generally in better condition books or newer. 

We use ABCMouse.com as an extra or for a fun day, Daddy normally takes them on the field trips or outside fun because I'm at work or gone. But yes, we do a lot of tie-ins and we don't take "Summer breaks" either lol.


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## Jlynnp

oneraddad said:


> It's always the uneducated that say the educated have no common sense.


First off education or the lack of has nothing to do with common sense. I have met both well educated and folks with no formal education that lack even the most rudimentary grasp of common sense and the same who are the most sensible folk I know. As for myself, I am well educated, possess a higher than average IQ and have been told I have great deal of common sense. I only wish I had home schooled my children, I personally think they would have had a much better education at home than they got in a public school where the teachers spent more time dealing with behavorial problems than teaching. On the other hand we have a neighbor child who "graduated" from his home schooling program this year, now his mother is a teacher in a public school but this child lacks even the most basic education and has limited social skills. I can't comment on which is better but if I were to do it again my children would NOT attend a public school.


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## DarkUnicorn

I'm going to say stick with what you are doing.

As a school bus driver since 2001... I will say that the school system has been dumbed down. The are stretching their resources to help to many students with too many issues. They have forgotten to focus on the 3 Rs... and basic common sense courses such as home economics, shop and things needed for day to day living. Do we REALLY need middle schools based on art or video games often to the detriment of math, science and language? I see a growing number of kids that can't function... atrocious spelling and handwriting....

If you can handle the juggling of homeschooling and working then do it. Your kids will thank you.


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## MakeLemonade

Stick to your guns if it's working for you!

For us we know homeschool paid off. My dyslexic kid spent K-2 in public school. Still couldn't read small children's books. I get her home and schooling for 1 year and she's reading small books so well now! We still have a ways to go but it's a definite improvement to how she was doing in public school


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## HomesteadXing

MakeLemonade said:


> Stick to your guns if it's working for you!
> 
> For us we know homeschool paid off. My dyslexic kid spent K-2 in public school. Still couldn't read small children's books. I get her home and schooling for 1 year and she's reading small books so well now! We still have a ways to go but it's a definite improvement to how she was doing in public school



Thanks so much! My Mom had asked me this week, "SO are you sending Ben to Public school or to that private school this year?" I said nope, he's staying in homeschool.

She wasn't pleased lol.


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## mnn2501

Murby said:


> My opinion on this is that if the parents don't have 4 year college degree's, they have no business trying to educate their own children.. Beyond normal parent stuff that is.
> .


You do understand that for many people, learning is a lifelong activity that doesn't require a formal setting?

Other than the fact that most corporations use it as a weeding tool these days, most people have no business going to college.


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## mnn2501

Murby said:


> Umm.. A degree does make you smarter../QUOTE]
> 
> NO, it does not, else there would not be so many people graduating with extreme student loans that can not find jobs in their chosen fields.
> 
> All it means is that you sat through 4 years of classes.


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## MoBookworm1957

Your children, if you and husband are happy with the working arrangement. Then politely ask or tell your mother the subject is closed for discussion. Good luck!


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## Elffriend

The "how do you know what they know without testing" one was always confusing. I have two kids, not a classroom of 30. I was with them all day long. I was the one who picked out the curriculum and worked through it with them. I knew which bits they sailed through and which bits needed more work. How could I possibly NOT know what they knew?


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## Declan

Murby said:


> My opinion on this is that if the parents don't have 4 year college degree's, they have no business trying to educate their own children.. Beyond normal parent stuff that is.
> 
> If you're educated, and if you're testing your kids to make sure they are keeping up and could compete with an equal from a public school, then tell your mom to go jump in a lake.


I disagree as to younger children. I could see the college degree thing when the kids start getting older.


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## 92utownxj

I want to join in here. We are planning to home school our oldest this year. He just turned 7, 1st grade. Last year he went to public school. The exact same school I went to. I sat in the exact same room 26 years before him. New young teacher, and new young principal. The principal I had was there when the school still had middle and high school. One of the nicest, child oriented men I've ever met. But he knew when to be stern. 

Anyway, it is not the same school I went to. It's terrible. When we first met his teacher the day before class started she gave all the parents a letter with information. The very first sentence was, "Please do not speak to me before or after school. Only contact me via email." That started things off on the wrong foot with me. I now teachers are busy, but they still need to have open communication with parents. 

In kindergarten last year they never worked on his hand writing. It's worse now than it was last summer. Basically kindergarten is the new first grade. The school day started at 8:35 am and they got out at 3:50 pm. That's long!! I went from 9 am to 11:30 am. After that I played all day at home or helped my parents or grandparents. They don't play anymore. They get a half hour recess after lunch. Lots of times my son would have to stay in at recess just to get one on one time with the teacher. And the worksheets! Good grief, I wonder how many trees they used in her class. He brought home no less than 10-20 worksheets per day. It was crazy! 

We learned through talking with other parents that 1st grade is even worse. No hands on learning. All worksheets. I would have gone insane if I was in school now. People would have said I had ADHD. All I wanted to do was play and work on the farm. Our son last year would get home and fall asleep for a couple hours. He was exhausted. No playing right after school. 

So, we made the decision to home school. There are lots of different curriculums out there to use. Our town has tons of home school groups as well. There are groups we can go to if we have questions about a subject or if they can explain it better. 

Definitely do what you feel is right for your children. You know what's best. We're getting push back from my father in law now. He's sure we're going to ruin our kids.


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## Steve_S

I taught my kids to love books & to read by starting to read to them while they were still in their swaddlers... every day without fail... By the time the oldest started Kindergarden, she could read, count and even do basic math... WE GOT IN TROUBLE because she was advanced over the other kids and BORED TO DEATH with the silly games and worksheets... Bottom line, is they didn't want any child to be smarter than the others They all have to be in the same Herd and same Level... We kept teaching our kids and when in Grade 1 our daughter could fix the Class Computer connections to the internet when the teacher couldn't... Well, we got an earful till dimmie teacher got straightened out. Funny how my daughter could pop up the Easter Egg in Windows and show her daddies name in the cred's.... LOL


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## hoddedloki

Speaking as a college level instructor, I have found here to be a significant difference in public school students and home school students. The public school kids tend to run the gamut in quality, but the home schooled students are significantly better than average. I will admit, that this is partly because of the college application process screens out the truly uneducated, but then again, it also screens out the mal-educated from the public schools.

Speaking to a friend who just retired from teaching HS here, the teachers are routinely given the short end of the stick, to the level of many of the local school districts are trying to fire the more qualified teachers in order to hire cheaper teaching assistants. (imagine the effect on the educational quality...) The money saving is being pocketed by the school administration. If you want to fix the problems, get involved in school board elections and hearings. You will be amazed at the amount of money that is wasted and stolen from you currently by the school system.

If enough exposure to the real world and to the astonishing people in the real world can be achieved, I cannot say enough good things about homes schooling.

Loki


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## Declan

Steve_S said:


> I taught my kids to love books & to read by starting to read to them while they were still in their swaddlers... every day without fail... By the time the oldest started Kindergarden, she could read, count and even do basic math... WE GOT IN TROUBLE because she was advanced over the other kids and BORED TO DEATH with the silly games and worksheets... Bottom line, is they didn't want any child to be smarter than the others They all have to be in the same Herd and same Level... We kept teaching our kids and when in Grade 1 our daughter could fix the Class Computer connections to the internet when the teacher couldn't... Well, we got an earful till dimmie teacher got straightened out. Funny how my daughter could pop up the Easter Egg in Windows and show her daddies name in the cred's.... LOL


I ran into that. By 5th grade the teacher would just have me sit with another similar student in the back of the room and self-study while she taught the other students and then she would zip up when she was having them do something to see if we had questions. I was often so far ahead the class before that that when I was called on I had forgotten the details of the readings or whatever. When teachers would challenge me on it I would just say what I had read last night and she could ask me anything they wanted on that otherwise I would have to go back and refresh. The other guy and I should have been in other classes that moved faster and at a higher level but because we lived in neighborhoods with slackers we were forced to be in the slacker class because of tracking.


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## Michael W. Smith

hoddedloki said:


> Speaking to a friend who just retired from teaching HS here, the teachers are routinely given the short end of the stick, to the level of many of the local school districts are trying to fire the more qualified teachers in order to hire cheaper teaching assistants. (imagine the effect on the educational quality...) The money saving is being pocketed by the school administration. If you want to fix the problems, get involved in school board elections and hearings. You will be amazed at the amount of money that is wasted and stolen from you currently by the school system.


I don't know where you live - but it sure isn't in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania has the largest teacher's union around - best salary, benefits, healthcare, pension around.

Around here you can't fire a teacher - well hardly. Once they have 3 years of teaching, they then have tenure which makes them pretty much untouchable - unless of course they have been caught stealing or molesting a kid. And even then - it's not easy to get rid of them, because the union will fight for them regardless.

I do agree that the school system wastes a HUGE amount of money. But here in PA, the school system is an entitlement program - where they cover each other's backs and keep telling the school board to raise taxes because the district needs MORE money. 

I've seen kids come out of public school as well as home-schooled kids. I've seen the brightest and smartest in both fields. I've also seen the kids who "graduated" coming from both fields - that . . . . . . well, won't go very far in life.


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## Karen

It's more a matter of how anti-homeschool people just don't have a clue about homeschooling. They view it as an easy way out with little effort on the child's part and no socialization, bla, bla, bla.

They have no idea the time we spend in preparing, in educating _ourselves_ to teach the topics of the day far beyond what the textbook teaches, the huge expense we endure (besides the taxes we still pay for others education), and the heart we have for putting our children's education first, and the extra effort (again, not to mention expense) for socialization outside the homeschool classroom.

Also, they don't understand that the curriculum today isn't like it use to be. It's extremely challenging -- way more so than public schools! But, you don't need a college degree to teach it because it walks parents through how to teaching it. But I've found most parents choose to expand further on what is in the textbook and spend a great deal of effort in giving real life examples and challenges to the child about that topic of day. Much more so than they will ever get in public school.

If the nay sayers would just see that it isn't "teaching", it's actually 1-on-1 _tutoring_. Everyone benefits and does better when they are worked with 1-on-1. If it didn't, universities wouldn't recommend tutoring for students who need to improve their grades. So it does works!

If you see a homeschool child who appears to lack socialization, don't judge them or the parents too quickly. There are a lot of reasons (including physical and mental issues) for that and I think if you learn about them, you will find they are highly socialized from how they would turned out in public school. 

Also keep in mind that there is also such a thing as too much socialization. When you've got parents who work all the time and the children are in public school and left to their peers, the tv, or internet, their values and morals end up being dictated by those influences. Exposing them to the outside world is one thing, but leaving them exposed to "everything" isn't a good thing at all.


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## hoddedloki

Micheal,

You are right in that a strong union can make change much harder. Where I live, there is no teachers union, so the only strong influence on the school board is the local school administrations and their families. As for firing a teacher who has tenure... One of several ways is to create a paper trail that documents 'Aggresiveness towards students, A lack of respect for minorities, and A history of insubordination.' These were the documented reasons for a tenured physics teacher with a PhD in physics to be fired. Apparently telling the vice principal that he would not inflate minority grades counted as discriminatory and insubordinate. He was replaced by a new graduate with a gen ed BA who is paid less than 1/2 of what he was paid. This type of replacement is becoming more and more common here, which is why education standards are falling.

As for idiots from the home school systems, the problem is that on a proportional basis, there is a lot higher percentage of public school produced idiots than home schooled. You get both ends of the spectrum no matter what you do, but get overall better results from homeschooling.

As for what to do about the waste and graft, the answer here is to go after the school boards, and make them accountable for all of the wasted money. I don't know how well that works in PA, but it is currently the only option here. (But I'll let you know when it actually gets results here...  )

Loki


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## moonspinner

Every home schooled kid I know of did spectacularly well, taking advanced material and excelled in college and in life. I think the socialization issue has little merit; there are so many avenues and opportunities to develop skills out of school. I wish I had been home educated. So much time is wasted in the public system.


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## Bungiex88

Even if your never home to teach your kids they will still learn alot more being home scooped then they would in public schools. Public schools do not teach anything anymore they indoctrinate. Keep your kids out of public schools as long as you can.


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## SLFarmMI

Bungiex88 said:


> Even if your never home to teach your kids they will still learn alot more being home scooped then they would in public schools. Public schools do not teach anything anymore they indoctrinate. Keep your kids out of public schools as long as you can.


That's a load of BS. You obviously don't have a clue about public schools.


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## hoddedloki

Perhaps Bungie knows because of attending public schools. But don't take just take our word for schools being indoctrination centers, try explaining why in the 50's a HS degree was much more rigorous than today, and why today's college freshmen now have to take remedial classes just to qualify to take real college courses. 

When I was in high school, they were phasing out civics classes as 'Old Fashioned,' and 'Not useful in modern times.' Now try to explain to me why the democrats would think that a population that doesn't know basic civics and politics would be a good thing to pursue...

Loki


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## SLFarmMI

hoddedloki said:


> Perhaps Bungie knows because of attending public schools. But don't take just take our word for schools being indoctrination centers, try explaining why in the 50's a HS degree was much more rigorous than today, and why today's college freshmen now have to take remedial classes just to qualify to take real college courses.
> 
> When I was in high school, they were phasing out civics classes as 'Old Fashioned,' and 'Not useful in modern times.' Now try to explain to me why the democrats would think that a population that doesn't know basic civics and politics would be a good thing to pursue...
> 
> Loki


Try comparing the curriculum standards from the 50s and those of today and then tell me which one is more rigorous. 

BTW, civics is still included in the HS curriculum. The course just isn't called civics anymore. Here it is called government. Not sure what the course is called where you are.


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## Karen

SLFarmMI said:


> Try comparing the curriculum standards from the 50s and those of today and then tell me which one is more rigorous.
> 
> BTW, civics is still included in the HS curriculum. The course just isn't called civics anymore. Here it is called government. Not sure what the course is called where you are.


Absolutely correct. Today's curriculum is MUCH more rigorous from the 50's. Back then, few went on to college; instead became farmers, factory worker, labours or a technical trade that you would apprentice under rather than go to school for. Women mostly stayed home and took care of the kids and the house unless they were going into nursing or teaching. Being a secretary didn't require college and women simply didn't expect to higher their education as promotions were unlikely for women. Most jobs simply didn't require a college degree regardless. 

When kids did go on to college, there was little competition for college admissions. There wasn't a great need for advanced education in high schools. Gosh, even university curriculum back then was more along the line of what community college is today.


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## MoBookworm1957

My goodness, from what I am reading I would say most of you were related to my dad.
Probably why he and I have butted heads more than once.
I am a Army brat. I have been on both sides of this issue.
I am also an Army Veteran.
When my dad was stationed some where there were no school. We were homeschooled. Otherwise we went to the local public school.
My sons went to Military public school.
We have been around this world several times literally.
When I was stationed somewhere my sons couldn't go for security reasons.
They went to Missouri public school.


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## Vahomesteaders

Unschooling our kids was the best decision we ever made. My daughter was struggling in school. To many students fir teachers to give individual attention and if a student doesn't get a subject the teacher has to keep on schedule so it's on to the next one and the student is left behind. So 4 years ago we started homeschooling. Now my kids test higher than the state and national average. School is used as a day care anymore. Many kids have trouble spending 8 to 9 hours a day in a desk. They aren't challenged at all. Our teaching day consist of about 2 to max 3 hours. With only 2 subjects focused on each week. The following week will be 2 different subjects. It has worked well. We order the sol tests each year and they are always in the top 10% of the average. They never accomplished that in school. Colleges are looking for these kids and giving scholarships to almost 87% of home educated kids vs 45% of public school kids. We could never go back and don't ever key anyone pressure you into anything. To many parents let the state raise their children and do the job that should be that of the parent.


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