# Biodiesel Question



## ct01r (Jan 21, 2014)

LOVE the forum here! Does anyone make biodiesel on a regular basis? I have a processor, have made a few batches in the processor and by hand, and it seems a bit thick when I'm done. I've tried used cooking oil, and tried buying new bottles of canola oil, but the viscosity still seems thick in the finished product. My processer uses a ion exchange demin for the final process. 

I have a 2006 diesel Jeep Liberty, but am hesitant to try it in the vehicle for fear of clogging the filter right away. I tried the biodiesel in a kerosene heater (the wick kind), but the wick started to clog after about an hour, and stopped working after about 3 hours.

My goal was to use biodiesel in the jeep in the warmer months, and in the kerosene heater in the shop in the winter. I was under the impression that it would compatible with wick style heaters. 

As it is, I use it for starting up the wood stove (it burns great!).

Anybody have any thoughts? Thanks! Curt


----------



## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

Biodiesel is junk.

It absorbs moisture and when it gets cold, it ices up.

It has less btu content than Dino and gets much worse fuel economy.

Company back home mixes it 20% and I have to battle that junk two or more tanks. Costing me $40+ in additives to clear the moisture out of my system.


----------



## NorthwoodsMike (Jun 10, 2013)

I miss my CRD Libby. I remember reading somewhere that they left the jeep factory with a 15% bio blend. I would do something similar, run a blend, with a little additive to eliminate any water concerns. If it's really thick, you could cut it with a little #1, but don't go too crazy as it can be expensive, and doesn't have the same lubrication properties as #2 diesel.

Have you done any modifications to it?


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

The local barber runs SVO in his Dodge Cummins. He loves it. So far he's saved money. AFAIK, he only gets oil from Chinese restaurants. He has a sample down at the shop and it looks darker than diesel. He's moved on to using a centrifugal filtering device. 

Take a look at the grease car kits. You'll have to heat the oil in the onboard tank and at the filter.

Based on an MIT thesis from the forties, vegetable oils had more BTU content than diesel.


----------



## ct01r (Jan 21, 2014)

I was hoping to use it fast enough not to worry about moisture. I usually go through a tank of regular diesel every 3 to 4 days, so I can make the bio and use it before it absorbs moisture. I tried mixing it with regular kerosene (50/50 mix) for the heater, but it didn't make any difference. I've tried different resteraunts, too, and have settled on one that gives me great oil (per the titration tests). 

Mike, when you ask about modifications, do you mean on the jeep? Nothing's been done to it, I was hoping to only burn bio in the summer so the gelling point wouldn't be an issue.

Darren, it's interesting that you mentioned veg oil getting more BTU's than regular diesel. Everything else I've read confirmed what farmerj said, that it burns lower and your milage goes down. Making it yourself should more than makes up for that, though


Thanks for the quick replies! I appreciate them! Curt


----------



## NorthwoodsMike (Jun 10, 2013)

If you use the fuel that quickly, moisture probably isn't a problem. I don't think heaters like that operate on #2 diesel, so it may not be the best comparison. Do you have a lift pump that you could run the diesel through an outside filter to test with? I bet if it's a little thicker you will be fine, as long as it's clean.

As far as mods go, I was curious if you had looked into egr delete. I know I'm looking to do that on my excursion with the 6.0, as it is the main reason that engine has a bad reputation. I also thought there was something on the 2.8 CRD that caused oil to be sucked into the intake, and that many people had "catchers" as a result. 

Also being a big jeep fan, I'm always curious about lifts and tires


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

The test results surprised me too. I'm not sure what oils they tested. May not have been cooking oils. Tung oil was used by the Chinese. Cottonseed oil may have been one. I've used straight Mazolla during a summer time emergency. The 6.9 didn't care.

The grease car conversion uses hot water from the engine to keep the SVO flowing even in winter. First time I saw one was on a Volkswagen from NC. The owner had stopped nearby. I followed it into the parking lot when I saw the bumper sticker.

He used coffee filters when he filled with the tank with the SVO. Other than that the SVO went through another heated filter in the engine compartment before going to the injection pump.

You can't beat free no hassle fuel.


----------



## NorthwoodsMike (Jun 10, 2013)

Any downside to the SVO? I thought there were "undesirables" in the chemical makeup that the biodiesel process eliminated, which filtering alone wouldn't resolve.

For awhile I used to have a CUCV with the 6.2 that ran on waste motor oil I ran through a water filter, and thinned with gasoline. I didn't have it long, but if I kept it, and had a reliable source for oil, I would have invested in a centrifuge.


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

The only downside to SVO is filtering it and keeping it heated in cold weather so it flows. You'd have to do some research on the electronic diesels. The mechanical diesels don't care as long as it's an oil and it burns.


----------



## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

I run a series 60 14l Detroit in a semi.

The differences in biodiesel and quality of fuels really makes a difference to us out here.

I fueled in Carlisle Ind yesterday. It was single digit temps.. My filter showed it should have been changed. I left it.

I am now in south Georgia 36 hours later where its 50Â°+. Same load of fuel and all. My filter shows as if it's new. I'll post a picture of it later when I fire up my computer.

Biodiesel absorbs water because of the alcohol in the production of it. No way around it. Something in the biodiesel also solidifies and gets plugged up into a 7 micron filter. But above 40Â° temps, it does ok.

I can still see a milage decrease though with 20% bio vs 5%. So I pay the extra for the 5%. In the long run, it saves me more money.


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I have been running my Chev 6.5 on WVO for years.
There are no modifications what so ever to the truck. . . ie; a heated tank . NO......

However what I run is not biodiesel per say . . 
.We have a source from several restaurants who use different oils for cooking.
We run it thru a centrifuge down to about 2 microns.
It is then blended with 50 gallons to 3 gallons of diesel, one gallon of reg gas, and some diesel anti gel hot shot stuff (911)
The reg gas is to thin down the mixture...

I looked into doing biodiesel but the dangerous chemicals bothered me...........
Handling Methanol is extremely dangerous.....

My Chev runs just fine with this blend. . . .and it has been well below zero temps here for some while.


----------



## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

Be interesting to see what your cost is per gallon when you put that concoction together. 911 isn't cheap at 80 oz for $10 on sale.


Most folks I know burn up 100-140 gallons of diesel per day. If local, 75-100 gallons.


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I have never quite figured a per gallon cost for our "blend". 
But it is far below what over the road diesel costs.....
Any body that says that they can get good fuel for nothing has a very large problem doing simple math...
And of course there is that "little" nagging issue of road taxes.........

That would be a hole nother ball game to get an operation going to supply the kind of amounts you mention (100+ gallons a day)
Our largest user is a big old Cat with a huge front bucket. . . . used for snow removal for a very large area......


----------



## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Have a neighbor that does the same as Jim. Runs filtered waste veggie oil in his pickup truck. He does a lot of hauling for hire. (like the show "Shipping Wars") 

He has a separate tank in the bed and ran his heater hose lines back thru it to heat the oil. Starts on regular diesel, switches to the heated oil after a while, and ends by switching back to regular diesel so his lines and filter are clear of VO before letting it sit overnight.


----------



## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

this is the fuel filter that I use on my Detroit.

It's made by Davco and I use a 7 micron filter in it as detroit wants.

anywho...

That filter has been showing at the top where it is supposed to replace it 3 times since I left the house on Jan 10th. All three of those times I was in temps under 10*F. All with B5 to B20 levels.


----------



## NorthwoodsMike (Jun 10, 2013)

One thing to keep in mind is these vehicles on straight WVO are trucks, or probably more on the "old school" side, which have much different tolerances/engineering than the newer "car" diesels. Like I said earlier, I ran used motor oil in my 6.2. 

Higher performance comes at a cost, and a more refined fuel is generally the first part of that. Bio is probably fine, but I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig on a newer engine with straight WVO.


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

My only concern about WVO would be the electronics on modern vehicles. The sample of the centrifuge filtered WVO I saw was darker than diesel oil. The WVO may have more lubricity than the low sulfur oil. Not sure what that would do.


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I remember the time a guy pulled in to try our fuel blend for the first time.
He was dumbfounded with how our fuel quieted down his diesel.
All to do with the far better -lubricity- factor of the WVO......
.Yes you can really thank our stupid goobermint for screwing up the diesel fuel by taking out the sulfur . . . . . . . .It is more better for us . . .

Yup I made a trip down to TnAndy's beautiful homestead a few years ago and he got to smell the 'french fries' by my exhaust pipe . . . and he saw all the fuel I was carrying with me to make that 2000mile trip. The 2800 lb. load of batteries I carried home never affected me going up and down those BIG hills down there.


----------



## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Jim-mi said:


> Yup I made a trip down to TnAndy's beautiful homestead a few years ago and he got to smell the 'french fries' by my exhaust pipe . . . and he saw all the fuel I was carrying with me to make that 2000mile trip. The 2800 lb. load of batteries I carried home never affected me going up and down those BIG hills down there.


Yeah, couldn't go in the shop for a week after Jim left without drooling for some strange reason.

My guess is I'd gain weight if I burned WVO.


----------



## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

ct01r said:


> LOVE the forum here! Does anyone make biodiesel on a regular basis? I have a processor, have made a few batches in the processor and by hand, and it seems a bit thick when I'm done. I've tried used cooking oil, and tried buying new bottles of canola oil, but the viscosity still seems thick in the finished product. My processer uses a ion exchange demin for the final process.


 A bit thick? At what temperature? And I am assuming you are separating the glycerin prior to using...


----------



## ct01r (Jan 21, 2014)

greg273 said:


> A bit thick? At what temperature? And I am assuming you are separating the glycerin prior to using...


The glycerin's been drained off, and I store it/use (or at least tried to use it) around 60-65 degrees F. 

Just a heads up, straight bio is only supposed to be used in vehicles made in 2006 or earlier. The exhaust laws changed that year, and from what people say, engines were made differently from 2007 on, and will only take a blend. Curt


----------

