# Preppers not being logical nor practical



## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

My husband is a private military contractor aka private security contractor and works abroad in the Middle East. He is also a CQB-CQD instructor. 

From time to time a tv show comes on called Preppers. He always finds it amusing that the preppers are giving out their local location, itemized supplies, most are not combat efficient, and that the prepper on tv forgets that his neighbors and others in the area know of him/her. You are now a sitting target with a bullseye on your back!

He tells me that hundreds of thousands prep, even millions and lack the most important detail, security and readiness to protect what you have. There are vultures out there that will come and take everything you have and even your life.

My husband will tell you that you need to build a team of 7-9 individuals and more if you can, that are tactically prepared and trained. Security, security, securityâ¦ and did I mention security?

Lack of the above will result in your home being taken from you, loss of life, even rape, and supplies being taken away without a blink of the eye. 

Years ago, I remember my husband talking without much details in regards to Katrina and how their company was called to travel and assist law enforcement from thugs! I mean really bad dudes going house to house stealing, robbing, and raping women. When his team arrived it was mission one to locate and wellâ¦ you can use your imagination from there. He said it reminded him of the Middle East. Even a modern wild wild west in the 20th century. It was so bad he said that even local cops were leaving and couldn't care less about anyone other than themselves. Cowards my husband called them!

I guess what I am getting at is that if the time comes, and we have a catastrophic event occur, please be prepared, it's not all about food, water, housing if you can't secure and protect your assets. 

RANT OVER


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

Can you explain how you prepare for any problems on your own? Without your husband being there.

Does he give you specific instruction, or just generalizations?

It's real easy to warn people about security, but hard for them to put it into motion without a background in such areas.

What are your (your husband's) specific recommendations?


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

anniew said:


> Can you explain how you prepare for any problems on your own? Without your husband being there.
> 
> Does he give you specific instruction, or just generalizations?
> 
> ...


We do practice drills. Everyone knows their range ,fields of fire and choke points. It works out well when you need it. We had fun about 3 months ago when the 5 local LEOs were chasing a stolen car down the farm road....


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

I guess I didn't get my point across. What if people don't have any military training nor know any LEO's to get started? Even the vocabulary is unfamiliar to people without that background.


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## Ellendra (Jul 31, 2013)

Be aware that so-called "reality shows" are highly scripted, and edited to make things seem more extreme than they are.

I know some people who were on a reality show together. The way it was altered made them so sick that they refused to do a second episode. 

Among other things, there was a point where the producer made it seem as though the whole team was stumped for hours and hours over a problem. In reality, they had it solved within seconds. The producer made it seem like the only woman on the team was a whiner and was dragging them down, when she is as tough and as capable as anybody, and never whines. Over and over again, the producer made edits and forced a script on them that was downright insulting, in an effort to make it more dramatic.

"Reality TV" is anything but.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Reality shows have tried to recruit here over the years. If you check prior threads, you'll find that most that have been here think they are ridiculous for all the obvious reasons you mentioned.

And many of the more hard line preppers/survival people have left and gone to their places and do not advertise where they are, or what they have. Many others know the best way not to be noticed is to blend into the population and don't look better off, and for sure SHUT UP and don't indicate that they have anything.

And Mutual Aid Groups, those 5 to 7 people or more, have been set up by some, or just have cautious then more in depth talks with near neighbors that may of a like mind.

But, you have posted some good ideas that many need to remember. But remember those Prepper shows are TV.


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## rininger85 (Feb 29, 2016)

I haven't watched any recent episodes, but every now and then when I'm bored I turn on old episodes of doomsday preppers (not sure if there is another show now just called preppers?)... I don't consider myself a prepper by any means, but in a sense I am because I'm trying to get to the point where my family is self sufficient for food... not really for when the SHTF, but just to not have to go to the grocery store for food, I'd rather eat food I raised/grew instead.

You do need to keep in mind that these people on these shows are being paid to be on the show and are by no means professionals... closer to actors (bad ones at that) I watch them and laugh at some of their attempts to be prepared... but I have learned a thing or two on there before too or at least given me ideas for some other things...


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I like the one show I remember. A family had a "greenhouse" out of an old in ground swimming pool. It had a drain for water evacuation, and had greenhouse tables with veggies growing all around in it, and it was covered. 

Best use of an in ground swimming pool.


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## rininger85 (Feb 29, 2016)

I saw one about making paper briquettes (shredded newspapers soaked in water then packed in to coffee cans with the top/bottom cut out, let them dry and they shrivel up slightly and can be pushed out of the can... they are very high density paper at that point so they last a lot longer than just wads of paper) to burn instead of wood... they take up less room, are less messy, and burn hotter/longer than some wood... so it is one thing that I plan to use as a backup plan for heating my greenhouse if I'm not able to heat it well enough with passive solar then I plan to add a small double barrel wood burner and burn the paper briquettes in them because it's free (pick up free news papers etc. to make the briquettes) and easy to store a whole bunch of them in very little space.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Lots of PT, and a lot more PT, and more and more PT........Professional Small Unit Training is available. (http://www.maxvelocitytactical.com/category/small-unit-tactics/). Or start by reading "CONTACT". The truth is that none of this appeals to preppers because it is hard physical work. And preppers only want to read Forums and buy things with money. Which is why they are going to die, but at a very, very, very slightly slower rate, but dead is dead, fast or slow. People think they can just read how to do it stuff.......and it will kick-in when the SHTF. The bottomline is this if people ain't taking this seriously and training, and training, and training, and doing drills, and PT, and drills, and PT.........they are SOL baby SOL.

http://www.maxvelocitytactical.com/category/small-unit-tactics/




anniew said:


> I guess I didn't get my point across. What if people don't have any military training nor know any LEO's to get started? Even the vocabulary is unfamiliar to people without that background.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

@ anniew - There is a major difference between law enforcement training and combat military/private security training. Major difference! Like day and night!

LEOs are trained to apprehend and arrest. When it comes to a economical collapse and you are having to defend for your life, it results to engagement of the subjects that in most cases will be life threatening. Those that want to harm, take your home and material objects.

Military families are protected and will reside on base and/or be well taken care of by the military. This is factual and we are talking for active military. Same goes for the line of work my husband is in.

I would recommend finding a professional outfit to obtain training. There are courses held throughout the United States. If you are ill or disabled, then group yourself with others and offer something in return for protection. Reading books is not the same as physical hands on training via the pros. 

Prepping is a great thing, and I think it's an excellent idea. But, I think without the training of weapons to be combative against the threat, it will result in you being a target&#8230; There is the trained and the untrained! Simple as that.

You've worked hard prepping food, supplies, water and other things, but don't shrug off the idea that Law Enforcement will NOT be there to come to the rescue!!! As you recall in my original post, the LEOs during Katrina, most vanished for safety and to protect their families too! This is life. I'm not an expert, but I am married to a man that is and has spent his life touring overseas. We also have 2 sons, 1 is a Marine and 1 is Army.

We have serious issues coming and ongoing. I'm just trying to help push those that are semi prepared to being proficient and 100% ready for worst case incidents if they actually happen, and they most definitely can!

I would recommend that anyone who is a prepper to have an AR15 platform and 1 secondary handgun. Have at least a dozen AR15 Mags and keep them loaded at all times. A hunting rifle is just that. A hunting rifle. Not a tactical weapon for defense. 

My husband runs the Scar light (16) and Scar Heavy (17), both is select fire. Both are amazing long guns, and in fact I also have a Scar 16 (semi auto) that my husband purchased for me last Christmas. It is light, fast and very durable, with little to no recoil, and highly desired, but expensive. Well worth the money if you have the extra cash laying around. But by all means is not necessary. There are only about 600 or so OPS in the USA Military that carry the Scar platform.

He also runs the FN 5.7 as his secondary firearm that uses a rifle round 5.7. His 5.7 ammo is custom loaded depending on the assignment and other factors, holds 30 rounds that he carries on his battle belt. He also runs an FN 45 Tactical on his chest rig and a suppressor that is attached when needed.

My husband would tell you that select fire in full auto stage is used rarely. You use up a lot of ammo and finding it hard to hit the target or the bad guy on the other end of the engagement. But to sum things up, I also keep a double barrel stage coach shot gun next to the bed side. I can't miss!  And if I do, I keep a FNX-9 under the pillow. I sleep well at night and wouldn't hesitate for a split second to take a life if they are trying to take my own or harm my family. I hope I've helped answer a few questions and to give some positive direction.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

anniew said:


> I guess I didn't get my point across. What if people don't have any military training nor know any LEO's to get started? Even the vocabulary is unfamiliar to people without that background.


You can learn a lot from Military Field Manuals:

http://www.stevespages.com/page7c.htm


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Back in the day of Y2K I had my self set up pretty good. Was in the process of building my home. When I asked plumbers, contractors, ect able different types of energy, like gas, propain electric and having both to switch back and forth they all thought I was nuts. I wanted to have some underground water storage tanks, again I was the crazy lady. Same gos for finding people like minded (in this area) that are as prepared as you are is a no go. Around here people always have a hand out for something. You cant tell anyone you have such and such. I have had stock piles stolen a few times, generator stolen I have even had chickens stolen. Cant let anyone know what you have or even where you live. So not sure about finding the like minded folks willing to work as hard as you.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Somewhat......but if you don't train and practice, and drill, and practice, and practice......it is just interesting stuff in your head.



Bearfootfarm said:


> You can learn a lot from Military Field Manuals:
> 
> http://www.stevespages.com/page7c.htm


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

http://wvmetronews.com/2016/06/14/s...urder-in-morgan-county/#.V2CjAOMd0C4.facebook


SO here you go! This is what happened yesterday. Sounds like it comes down to protecting his compound.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Is this near you.........??? Sad, very sad event.




Forcast said:


> http://wvmetronews.com/2016/06/14/s...urder-in-morgan-county/#.V2CjAOMd0C4.facebook
> 
> 
> SO here you go! This is what happened yesterday. Sounds like it comes down to protecting his compound.


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## MOSTBCWT (May 5, 2016)

If I hear one more comment about how military folks are so skilled and law enforcement is not I think im gonna puke. 

I spent over 2 decades in law enforcement training cops, organizing and leading tactical units as well as participating in military sponsored training with special forces guys as well as trying to train military guys to be police officers. The fact is that younger military personnel as a whole are not that bright. They are kids. I've arrested many of them being stupid. 

Our tactical units ran circles around the military guys when it came to building clearing, target identification and engagement and most all other aspects of urban or rural site management. More of a precision scene management than a brute show of force by outside assistance.

I also have several friends that contracted after 9/11 and spent a few years in Afghanistan or Iraq as advisors training the national police forces. Quick easy money for the year but not much legitimate tactical operation.

Find a good private instructor that has prior experience in small unit movement tactics etc and seek knowledge. Many, many narcotics guys possess such knowledge.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Wow........I just checked to see if there was new "Official" informantion on this.......could not find any, but the comments posted to this article, sure tell a different story. 

I would appreciate any new information on this sad shooting, as it becomes public information.





Forcast said:


> http://wvmetronews.com/2016/06/14/s...urder-in-morgan-county/#.V2CjAOMd0C4.facebook
> 
> 
> SO here you go! This is what happened yesterday. Sounds like it comes down to protecting his compound.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Sourdough said:


> Is this near you.........??? Sad, very sad event.


Yes This WEEK.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

http://amandamangan.podomatic.com/entry/2016-06-14T05_53_57-07_00


Notice he calls prepers people with compounds something that I cant catch


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

We do not have a TV. I watch a few things online, right now I am working through episodes of Hogan's Heroes [I love the many references to Freemasonry operating in war-torn Europe].

Do not put too much stock in what is shown of 'preppers' on 'reality' TV


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

ET1 SS said:


> We do not have a TV. I watch a few things online, right now I am working through episodes of Hogan's Heroes [I love the many references to Freemasonry operating in war-torn Europe].
> 
> Do not put too much stock in what is shown of 'preppers' on 'reality' TV


When watching Hogan's Heroes do you ever do as I do and imagine a closure ending for the series that involves Hogan somehow saving the hides of Klink and Shultz? 

As far as prepping for emergencies, there are always differences between short term blackout of utilities survival and long term social collapse and rebuilding efforts and survival.

For those who come to a board as this for survival tips, most of us can offer options of the short term blackout of utilities survival. 

If a total social collapse were to occur, those with military survival skills, sense of social responsibility and empathy for others will establish social rebuilding efforts that will include folks skilled in all levels of survival preparedness as long as all are willing to work for the common goals and repel enemies if need as those with lesser skills learn from those with more advanced skills.

Until required, those with the truly advanced survival skills will generally not discuss them and concentrate only on the short term blackout of utilities aspects of prepping.


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

All those reality type shows are scripted and are a joke. And Alabamagal's husband is right. Even by the info you see on the show your could probably track someone down just by the info they give. 

That's why I keep telling my kids not to put picts of my grandkids on Facebook along with other info. It's easy to find someone.

Bob


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Sourdough said:


> Is this near you.........??? Sad, very sad event.


same county. The Sheriff is rolling his eyes and saying he Shute was preparing for the end times. recruiting other sovrent people to join him. This is why I said you cant talk about what you have or were your hiding spot is. The Sheriff was out on the "compound" today said Shute had all kinds of food water, meds guns stored "that he was going to be the one to live when other wouldnt because he had food and water. What I know he had was a underground bunker, and some out buildings sheds. Not sure they found the bunker. I know he has one but Sheriff didnt say he found it. So the ones that prepare are the NUTS. And if you try and find like minded prepers your against the government.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Well........sounds like he will be getting free meals and a cot for the rest of his life. I still feel this sad event offers some education. Example: In this exact case, given the history of past hostile interactions between the parties, I would have figured it prudent for the four adults, to be prepared for exactly what happened. Maybe have two working adults, and two adults on "Over-watch" guard. Sad, outcome.....Very Sad. 

However, if the SHTF for any extended period, I would expect this to be a common event. Which is why I advocate, the best option is to avoid all human contact for several months.




Forcast said:


> same county. The Sheriff is rolling his eyes and saying he Shute was preparing for the end times. recruiting other sovrent people to join him. This is why I said you cant talk about what you have or were your hiding spot is. The Sheriff was out on the "compound" today said Shute had all kinds of food water, meds guns stored "that he was going to be the one to live when other wouldnt because he had food and water. What I know he had was a underground bunker, and some out buildings sheds. Not sure they found the bunker. I know he has one but Sheriff didnt say he found it. So the ones that prepare are the NUTS. And if you try and find like minded prepers your against the government.


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

The common tactic for thieves stealing your generator is to start a lawn mower and leave it setting there running where your generator used to be. You hear the drone of the motor thinking it is your generator. Sometimes they will use your own lawnmower!!

My person preference is the AK47 platform as I'm a big believer in the 30 caliber bullet as being both a good hunting round and man stopper. I'm also a believer in redundancy where you have several different rifles all using the same caliber or rifles and pistols using the same caliber. Ammo between rifles is easily shared without thinking ot searching for a different caliber during a crisis. Good examples would be the 9MM camp rifle and a 9MM pistol ...or the Ruger 77/357 bolt action rifle and a .357 pistol. 

I like bolt action rifles for their exceptional long range accuracy and ease of maintenance and cleaning. I can hit a mans (or deer) chest size target everytime 500 yards with my scope mounted rifle .... (practice, practice, practice) I can wound alot of people a long way off before they get close to me ..... 

Ohio Rusty


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

*WHY........Why would you do this.........???*




Ohio Rusty said:


> I can hit a mans (or deer) chest size target everytime 500 yards with my scope mounted rifle .... (practice, practice, practice) I can wound alot of people a long way off before they get close to me .....
> 
> Ohio Rusty


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

In a SHTF situation, the farther out I can hit a hostile enemy, the less people I have shooting at me ..... Outside of 100 yards, the average shooter has a hard time hitting a person sized target effectively...... This long range shooting skill is one of the most effective things I came away with from being in the military. The enemy is a lousy shot a long way away .......... I have no plans of challenging any other shooters to a quick draw at 40 feet away ,...... That is a sure way for me to get shot ...

Ohio Rusty ><>


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

It would be cheaper and easier and safer to just set your house on fire at night, and save their ammo for some other application. How did you figure to determine that at 500 yards they are a hostile enemy........??? And if you have a answer for that.........what if it is dark.....???





Ohio Rusty said:


> In a SHTF situation, the farther out I can hit a hostile enemy, the less people I have shooting at me ..... Outside of 100 yards, the average shooter has a hard time hitting a person sized target effectively...... This long range shooting skill is one of the most effective things I came away with from being in the military. The enemy is a lousy shot a long way away .......... I have no plans of challenging any other shooters to a quick draw at 40 feet away ,...... That is a sure way for me to get shot ...
> 
> Ohio Rusty ><>


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## WoodsDweller (Jun 15, 2016)

If he's in the Eastern woodlands of Ohio he will do good to see over 100 yards for a shot most times. Lol


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

I can see to the top of the ridge in front of my house ... that is 500 yards and and I hit targets placed across there for practice. I'm not the only one .... an acquaintance brought over his scoped 1903 30.06 bolt action and hit the targets also !! I like the 30.06. .... great caliber.

In the woods you can see some places alot farther than 100 yards. Some of the valleys have long, clear areas. I wish I could afford the Gen3+ night vision units. I have the Gen 1 and you can see people at night ... out to 50 yards you can see if they are carrying a rifle ..... It's not a scope for a rifle, just a hand held. A real fun toy for seeing all the critters at night all around your house. 

If they come to burn my house down ...we'll cross that bridge when we get there ..... Night vision optics and my sermi-auto shotgun with buckshot will have to be the answer .... Of course ...I live 70 miles from the nearest large town so they will have to cross alot of terrain before they will get to my rural area ..... No one on this list has the answers or the solutions to every possible scenario ..... whether it is in Ohio or Alaska ....

Ohio Rusty ><>


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

I sure agree 110% with that.......I have a FLIR RS-64 but I have not done much work with it. It is a Thermal Scope (2-9 Power), and is hand held or has a Quick Detachable "LaRue" Tactical firearm mount.




Ohio Rusty said:


> No one on this list has the answers or the solutions to every possible scenario ..... whether it is in Ohio or Alaska ....
> 
> Ohio Rusty ><>


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

> If a total social collapse were to occur, those with military survival skills, sense of social responsibility and empathy for others will establish social rebuilding efforts that will include folks skilled in all levels of survival preparedness as long as all are willing to work for the common goals and repel enemies if need as those with lesser skills learn from those with more advanced skills.


New Orleans is not a good example of total social collapse, because things didn't collapse long term. When thinking long term collapse, think medievel Europe or the American frontier...You'll have several families banded together, inside a central, walled compound, mutually defending each other.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

I think there at are a lot of people who have unrealistic expectations and general understanding of how things would work, and I see a lot of that on the prepper shows.

I live out in BFE -- 17 miles from the nearest town by road, most of which is dirt, surrounded by national forest. Small private inholding of land with a few dozen residents, most of whom just have summer cabins. A few of those cabins are people's bug out locations. 

We are full time, and we have gardens, livestock, tools, vehicles (ATVs and a tractor), guns, skills, and we are friends with the trustworthy and sensible people in the community -- and we know who can be trusted and who can't in an emergency. We'd band together with our neighbors and in an EOTWAWKI scenario we would do just fine.

We have a few neighbors who are "preppers" -- they have no operational security, so we know who they are, what they have, and that they expect to live off their preps and/or "live off the land" in the event of $EOTWAWKI -- the exact form of $EOTWAWKI varies by family, but the theme is the same. World's gonna end and they plan to survive off their Mountain House and fight off the zombies with their vast ammo stash from their basements. 

We ... have a few months worth of supplies (mostly beans and rice and cracked corn) in tubs. It's enough to get us through one winter, and it's an efficient use of space. 

We also have established gardens, fences to keep critters and zombies out, livestock and poultry, secure steel barns, a defensible property with good lines of sight (we have four legged varmit problems and the property has been cleared to be firewise which lends itself to good visibility), ample tools, vehicles -- including ATVs and a well maintained diesel tractor from the early 1980s that should survive an EMP or be repairable afterwards -- a water trailer with a pump (meaning we could haul water from the creek if necessary), stored fuel, stored firewood, water storage, and good relations with our neighbors with similar setups. If we ran out of fuel we could still survive just fine, too. 

Oh, yeah, we have guns too. I'm not going to brag about what we have, except to say it's sufficient for the job.

... The preppers can go on TV and brag. We'll just go about our business. I expect we'll do a lot better than they will in the event of a crisis, though.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

alabamagal said:


> My husband is a private military contractor aka private security contractor and works abroad in the Middle East. He is also a CQB-CQD instructor.
> 
> From time to time a tv show comes on called Preppers. He always finds it amusing that the preppers are giving out their local location, itemized supplies, most are not combat efficient, and that the prepper on tv forgets that his neighbors and others in the area know of him/her. You are now a sitting target with a bullseye on your back!
> 
> ...



LOL, It's proven time and again. The safest place for a villager is in a village with other villagers. A city dweller is far safer continuing to go to work and keeping things BAU. Dreams of mad max like worlds are simply nonsense.

your military tactics are utterly useless without the backing of a large military force... Simply put your tactics require 3 supply people for each gun... each of those supply people need a factory to supply them.

So for your 7 guns you will need a group of approx 100 to 150.. Sounds like a small village. 


Military training.. live fire zones.. Bunkers.. :hysterical: How will you resupply? Deal with a siege? add members to your group without thoughts and worries of internal strife. What if half are killed? Do you then just give up because your numbers are too low. It's Simply delusional nonsense to think you will be an army. You and your team will more likely end up being the military/defenders of a small town or village. Small town armies/security forces aren't paid and usually end up dead. The front lines aren't the "safe" place to be. The safe place to be is back in the village...


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Cygnet said:


> I think there at are a lot of people who have unrealistic expectations and general understanding of how things would work, and I see a lot of that on the prepper shows.
> 
> I live out in BFE -- 17 miles from the nearest town by road, most of which is dirt, surrounded by national forest. Small private inholding of land with a few dozen residents, most of whom just have summer cabins. A few of those cabins are people's bug out locations.
> 
> ...


And here's what I'd worry about...sounds like some of those neighbors are going to get mighty hungry, mighty fast.

What happens then?


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