# Leasing a broodmare cost?



## homesteader25 (May 8, 2014)

We have an AQHA Leo quarter horse (Diamond Quick Leo), he's a fifth generation Leo stallion. We wanted to breed him to a palomino mare from Mr Yella Fella but have no idea what a leasing cost would be. The owner of the mare wants her to be left here with the stud and we would take care all of the expenses plus since he has 2 mares, maybe he'll breed both and get a foal and so would we. Should that even have a cost? I would think it was a fair trade at that point considering Leo has very good bloodlines and very direct to the original Leo. What do you guys think?


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

My first question for any breeding is:

What qualities does your stud have and what qualities does the mare have that would better the breed lines? It's not just the fact that they have good blood in them because there are other contributors as well and with the huge number of unwanted horses out there, is doing this breeding going to benefit the line or just make another horse?

As for the cost, I'm sure you could look that up online. I do wonder how ready you are for this if you and the mare's owner doesn't know how to go about this.


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## homesteader25 (May 8, 2014)

We want to get cutting horses/cow horses for our farm. We wanted a king line to breed our leo line but yella fella seemed like a good fit. Leo had produced many cow horses but he's getting older so we wanted to continue his line.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I can't answer the cost question but I ranch and do know there are very few well bred ranch horses anymore. 

As I stated on a previous thread, I'm a bit reluctant to accept the notion that I have to accept and encourage backyard breeders by way of buying something because it's already on the ground. 

I would advise you to draw up a contract and make sure you cover mare mortality, foal mortality, vet costs, accident and injury costs as well as general care.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Where we live, well broke working ranch horses are everywhere. You can expect to pay a good amount for a FINISHED ranch horse, but foals are a dime a dozen and can be purchased for a few hundred bucks, if that. I personally wouldn't breed one when the market is so flooded with the ones already on the ground. I have cutters, reiners, and several ropers/all around ranch horses. I wouldn't breed for one unless I had a superior mare with points or money, being bred to a superior stallion with the same.

I never encourage breeding anything to anything if it is already available elsewhere, and you are not improving the breed standard by breeding. If your stallion is an outstanding specimen with a proven performance record or he is a fully finished ranch horse that has a proven work ethic and stable, solid mind and confirmation, and the mare has the same, then maybe, just maybe, you will throw a foal worth something after several years of care/training/working them into what someone else can use.


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## homesteader25 (May 8, 2014)

If your stallion is an outstanding specimen with a proven performance record or he is a fully finished ranch horse that has a proven work ethic and stable, solid mind and confirmation, and the mare has the same, then maybe, just maybe, you will throw a foal worth something after several years of care/training/working them into what someone else can use.[/QUOTE]

Our stallion fits this description so I'm willing to breed. We just wanted to have good lines on the mares side. Apparently nobody really agrees so we will leave the matter at that. I wanted an estimated price, I figured somebody would throw a number but instead I get lectured for not buying somebody else's horses. We wanted to train them from the get go and continue his line on. It's a little irritating to hear that I'm not ready to do this because I asked for advice. Thanks to people that were nice but it doesn't seem like that's the case with some of you.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

homesteader25 said:


> If your stallion is an outstanding specimen with a proven performance record or he is a fully finished ranch horse that has a proven work ethic and stable, solid mind and confirmation, and the mare has the same, then maybe, just maybe, you will throw a foal worth something after several years of care/training/working them into what someone else can use.


Our stallion fits this description so I'm willing to breed. We just wanted to have good lines on the mares side. Apparently nobody really agrees so we will leave the matter at that. I wanted an estimated price, I figured somebody would throw a number but instead I get lectured for not buying somebody else's horses. We wanted to train them from the get go and continue his line on. It's a little irritating to hear that I'm not ready to do this because I asked for advice. Thanks to people that were nice but it doesn't seem like that's the case with some of you.[/QUOTE]


If you change your mind about keeping the goal, give me a call. I'm pretty fond of your bloodlines and as a matter of fact, I'm going to start working with the test pilot's weanling that has similar genetics as soon as I can walk again. 

I've done similar to what you're planning and it was a straight across deal but I'm up in Canada but SFM breeds and I'm hoping she can offer you a bit more insight on the technical side.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Here there are lots of free leases for broodmares and I'd bet most don't have any takers. Some seem to be well bred and nicely put together. It is really sad, but there is very little market for foals and few people are breeding.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

homesteader25 said:


> If your stallion is an outstanding specimen with a proven performance record or he is a fully finished ranch horse that has a proven work ethic and stable, solid mind and confirmation, and the mare has the same, then maybe, just maybe, you will throw a foal worth something after several years of care/training/working them into what someone else can use.


Our stallion fits this description so I'm willing to breed. We just wanted to have good lines on the mares side. Apparently nobody really agrees so we will leave the matter at that. I wanted an estimated price, I figured somebody would throw a number but instead I get lectured for not buying somebody else's horses. We wanted to train them from the get go and continue his line on. It's a little irritating to hear that I'm not ready to do this because I asked for advice. Thanks to people that were nice but it doesn't seem like that's the case with some of you.[/QUOTE]

If he fits that, that's awesome. Understand, I am an all breed rescue who has so many of the unwanted, poorly bred group that it makes me sick. But I also have three mares I breed for the same reasons you choose, and my initial reaction was put to rest by your response. Really, I like your lines, and if I didn't have a couple of really great stallions I like right in my area, I would consider your boy if I were to breed again.

Forgive me for the response, and again, understand the end I am coming from. If you are serious about what you are doing and not just breeding to have a foal, that's good. 

I don't have an answer for broodmare cost for you.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I'm kinda finding the rescue before breeding concept is getting kinda tired. 

I've watched great breeders cut back to almost nothing because they are criticized for 'contributing to the equine surplus,' but the problem remains. 

Somebody seems to be breeding an awful lot of grade horses and it's just an accepted fact of life but if I want to breed my awesome, proven Hancock mare, I'm literally treated like I'm running a puppy mill. 

Good honest producers who raise quality foals for their own use are not the cause of the saturation problem and good quality horses are still worth good money.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

wr said:


> I'm kinda finding the rescue before breeding concept is getting kinda tired.
> 
> I've watched great breeders cut back to almost nothing because they are criticized for 'contributing to the equine surplus,' but the problem remains.
> 
> ...


Not at all, at least not by me. If that's how it comes across, I'm sorry, it isn't intended that way. 

I would never tell someone to rescue before they breed their own foal. I, myself, have a great breeding program with three of my good mares, and I have a couple of coming 2 year olds as well as a weanling right now that I bred for. I just don't like when people don't have a specific purpose, or a great horse, when breeding. I get the leftovers of that group, and it ain't pretty. 

So while I do promote rescue and adopting rescues, I don't encourage getting a rescue when a bred by foal will have a specific purpose that you breed for, out of great parents, etc. it's when they breed to make money off a foal that isn't out of great parents, it floods the market with half baked babies that don't sell and don't ever wind up in good working homes.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

aoconnor1 said:


> Not at all, at least not by me. If that's how it comes across, I'm sorry, it isn't intended that way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe being gimpy is making me grumpy because it truly was a vent. 

It seems that the latest trendy words in the horse world are adopt/rescue and abused and both kinda set my teeth on edge. 

If someone wants to buy or adopt, I'm happy for them and would counsel most people the same way.

I've been doing what I do for an awful long time and I honestly don't feel it's up to me to mop up somebody else's mess nor do I feel that the goal or two I raise every few years contributes to the population problem nor is it folks like the OP. 

I'm not sure it is the same in the US but Western Canadian First Nations bands still raise horses. Last official count, the band near me runs about 1800 head and sell foals through general auction annually. Even if 900 head go to auction, that's a lot of meat heading for France every year and in my opinion, that's a significant contribution to a saturated market.


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## homesteader25 (May 8, 2014)

aoconnor1 said:


> If he fits that, that's awesome. Understand, I am an all breed rescue who has so many of the unwanted, poorly bred group that it makes me sick. But I also have three mares I breed for the same reasons you choose, and my initial reaction was put to rest by your response. Really, I like your lines, and if I didn't have a couple of really great stallions I like right in my area, I would consider your boy if I were to breed again.


Actually some of the horses we have are the poorly bred group lol We use to have a half linger mare and this guy use to lease land from us and every time he would come to get his cows for the winter, for 3 years straight, he would let Leo out and not even try to catch him. So we have 3 accidents on the farm but ironically enough, they all have his quick thinking mind and build. Finally ended the lease, he kept cutting our fence so his cows could graze neighboring land.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

homesteader25 said:


> We have an AQHA Leo quarter horse (Diamond Quick Leo), he's a fifth generation Leo stallion. We wanted to breed him to a palomino mare from Mr Yella Fella but have no idea what a leasing cost would be. The owner of the mare wants her to be left here with the stud and we would take care all of the expenses plus since he has 2 mares, maybe he'll breed both and get a foal and so would we. Should that even have a cost? I would think it was a fair trade at that point considering Leo has very good bloodlines and very direct to the original Leo. What do you guys think?


I've leased mares to breed and I've had people lease mares from me to breed. Right now, the horse market isn't wonderful and the economy isn't quite as good as it was 10 years ago, so leases are getting less expensive in some ways. I'm not sure if the mare owner is wanting you to keep both mares through breeding and then until they foal, or just through breeding and then the mares go back to him and you pick one of the two foals. Keeping two mares until they foal/wean foals and getting one of the foals is probably not a great deal. Right now, I have two mares here on 'free lease' ... I paid their transport to my farm, will breed them, keep the foals and send them back to the owner (at my expense) in foal to one of my stallions after my foal is weaned.

I will also be leasing one of my mares to someone else for this breeding season, to be bred to an outside stallion. Person leasing is paying a $500 lease fee, will pay all the expenses of getting the mare bred and will keep the mare at her farm once this year's foal is weaned, until "her" foal is weaned.

There are many different arrangements made for mare leases, all depending on the circumstances, so no real $$ answer to your question ... and I'm dealing with another breed/discipline so QH $$ may be very different, but a common 'lease' for one mare is often the stallion owner takes a mare, breeds to his stallion, gets the first foal and sends the mare back to the owner in foal to that stallion after his foal is weaned. No money changing hands in a case like this.





wr said:


> Maybe being gimpy is making me grumpy because it truly was a vent.
> 
> It seems that the latest trendy words in the horse world are adopt/rescue and abused and both kinda set my teeth on edge.


I'm not gimpy, but I'm just as grumpy as you. I've dropped a couple of FB pages because of the hassle from half the people that are trumpeting the 'adopt/rescue' line every time someone asks about breeding. Getting really tired of it ... it's insulting. You spend a lifetime developing good horses, learning about bloodlines and genetics and athletic ability, then have someone tell people that they can adopt/rescue a horse from some 'accidental' breeding that will be just as good at whatever the buyer wants them to do is getting to the point where it's just instant flashpoint for me.

I'm getting to the point where I'm not nearly as polite in my responses as I was.


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

We used to pay all care expenses on the mare, plus 50.00 per month to the owner of the mare. We definitely had a contract on each mare that we leased that covered everything and anything that could happen.


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## RLStewart (Sep 10, 2006)

The only thing I have to add to the conversation is that I would do a 5-panel test for genetic diseases on both stallion and mare before breeding. Some of the foundation lines tend to have the PSSM and HERDA. I think it costs $95 and you do it through the AQHA.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

Something a lot of people forget is insurance. If you're going to breed a non owned mare you may need special insurance to cover liability. It's called 'care, custody and control' and covers liability issues for your stallion, the mare and you or your staff. We had regular homeowners for years until our agent found out we had over ten horses. We had the choice of getting just the equine liability policy from a specialized company but found out it was cheaper to get the entire farm insurance package. Make sure your contract states the mare owner's value for each mare, in writing-signed and preferably notarized. Also who is responsible for vet bills for the mares. Take good pictures of each mare when she arrives and when she leaves and get worming and trimming schedules. Best of luck getting a foal you like, best blood gives you a better chance of a good foal but does not guarantee a good cross.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

RLStewart said:


> The only thing I have to add to the conversation is that I would do a 5-panel test for genetic diseases on both stallion and mare before breeding. Some of the foundation lines tend to have the PSSM and HERDA. I think it costs $95 and you do it through the AQHA.


This is so important it needs to be repeated. 

ANY stock horse that is being considered for breeding should have a genetic blood panel done, IMO.


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

Homesteader 25 - I stood 4 Grandsons of Leo and bred them to Granddaughters of Leo. We also outcrossed them. I've done the Mare leasing in the past and would urge you to purchase a Leo mare of your own and breed to your stud. Although I no longer breed I still have my connections.


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