# Selling A Horse....oh boy



## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

I have a 6 year old registered walking horse mare that I have been trying to sell. I know the market is flooded with horses for sale so I didn't expect to sell her quickly. But I have to say people are truly giving me a headache and I am too the point of just saying whatever and just keeping her. What is it with people? The first people stayed at the farm for 4 hours. Don't get me wrong, I know it is a big decision, but 4 hours? And of the 4 hours, they spent more time telling me about the horse they used to have and asking about how I milk my goats. The next couple, I knew as soon as the woman got out of the car that she wasn't really interested in a horse. Hubby "thought" she needed a horse. She spent more time with my goats. This after several phone calls talking about the horse. Another woman called me, showed up two hours late to ride the horse....in the dark because it is dark here at 7o pm. She called me the next night, she would be coming on wednesday with trailer and cash. She sounded so excited on the phone. Wednesday morning, she emails, "sorry hubby has to go out of town". I guess I should be happy she let me know she wasn't coming. Am I doing something wrong? Not pre-screening customers before they come to the farm? Or, is it just how it is in the horse world? I've never sold a horse before. I am usually the buyer. :grin:


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Unfortunately, this is a very common story in the horse world. I've been selling horses for years and this is very often what happens. I got by a little better because for years I was difficult to get to (MT) and had warmbloods ... not a local market ... so if anyone DID come to look they were usually reasonably interested.

However, not always the case ... will always remember one lady who came with her trailer (after talking to me 2 or 3 times on the phone) to look at a yearling I'd priced at $2500, after coming down from $3500 ... "for a local buyer" ...

She went home with an empty trailer, truly ----ed, because I wouldn't take $1500 for him.


----------



## bergere (May 11, 2002)

What.... you haven't gotten the 4-H mother, who's darling daughter, never been on a horse before and wants yours so they can learn together... AND you are to give it to them for free, because they are ever so special?

At least yours is 6 years old... 
Won't believe how many people have emailed me about my 2 year old Icelandic... asking me if she is trail ridden yet? Seriously people.....

Can go on but it is too depressing. 
Did find a good buyer for my Icelandic filly... have been waiting almost a month for them to pick her up. They had better do it soon. 
And before they pick her up, they had better pay for her. Sigh ~~~ 

I feel for you selling a horse in this day and age, it isn't easy. 
(If people stay to long, just tell them you have an appointment to get to, nice to meet them and escort them to their car)


----------



## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

If they drove more then 15 miles and they didn't come with a truck pulling a trailer bet they are window shoppers just playing horse buyer.


----------



## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

bergere said:


> What.... you haven't gotten the 4-H mother, who's darling daughter, never been on a horse before and wants yours so they can learn together... AND you are to give it to them for free, because they are ever so special?


Actually, I have had several that basically want her for free OR better yet, they want to trade their crazy horse for her. One woman wanted to trade me for a 4 year old walking horse that was AWESOME (her words not mine)except he was "cold in the saddle". I emailed her back and asked her to describe "cold in the saddle". Her reply back "oh, you can saddle him and he is very sweet but when you get in the saddle he will buck and rear for only about 60 seconds and then is prefect for the rest of the ride." hummmm, I think the guys in the rodeo only have to ride for 8 seconds so WHY would I want to ride like that for 60 secs? :stars:

Thanks for all of your replies. I guess I will just have to chaulk it up to the way the world is right now.


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

hiddensprings said:


> I guess I will just have to chaulk it up to the way the world is right now.


It seems to be more common now because of the market/economy but my 'experiences' go back some 30 years and believe me, you had the 'tire kickers' 30 years ago as well.


----------



## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

you know its not just the horse world. The last litter of pups I had I had a girl stay for 3 hours. she couldn't decide between 2 pups. She walked practically every inch of my property dragging a pup along..for 3 hours. Finally when she said My pups were so much cleaner and healthier looking then the place she stopped along the way to my place..I about freaked. THANKS so much for dragging every germ from that kennel to every inch of my property,. I told her to go to the truck stop and get a cup of coffee.and think on it. About an hour later she called me to tell me she was taking neither. Good enough to me. Too bad she had to take 4 hours to decide.
so anyway it seems to be all people. Not just horsie folks


----------



## mountainwmn (Sep 11, 2009)

I do think it's a lot of horse people though. I have been trying to sell a couple saddles that didn't fit my paso and its getting hard to not choke these people before I even see them. I almost never show up with a trailer...I like to think about a horse buy over night. Even to look at a free horse 2 hours away.


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I think the professional horse trainers and breeders actually get used to this. When I found the ad for the Welsh mare I just bought I could see from the ad that she was what I was looking for, just needed a few more questions answered. I called the owner, who was at a horse show, we made connections a couple of days later. I asked the questions and got answers even better than I'd hoped ... high scores in the sportpony inspection, the three years she had not had a foal she had not been bred, etc., she'd conceived with frozen semen the first try, etc.

I verified the price ... and my next question was 'Do you want the check made out to you personally or the farm?" ... and there was this 3 seconds of absolute silence on her end before she replied.

I asked her later, after we'd talked several more times and she laughed. Said she'd had half a dozen calls on the mare that seemed very interested, wanted video, etc. She'd also just had several calls on another pony from a woman who was absolutely on her way with the trailer to pick up that pony the next day ... two weeks ago and hadn't heard from her since.


----------



## brody (Feb 19, 2009)

lamoncha lover said:


> If they drove more then 15 miles and they didn't come with a truck pulling a trailer bet they are window shoppers just playing horse buyer.


interesting - I would never presume to have brought a trailer with me.. I might now if the price was right and I had had plenty of chats, pictures and videos but back before I was looking for horses to show and resell for a substantial mark up so you could be certain I was vetting anything I bought - I wasn't in the position of being able to afford unsellable horses no matter how much I liked them 

I was never in a rush to buy - and told the sellers up front that I was (and am) a process person ... even today I would do at least 2 visits -one where they rode first and one when I did


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

brody said:


> I was looking for horses to show and resell for a substantial mark up so you could be certain I was vetting anything I bought - I wasn't in the position of being able to afford unsellable horses no matter how much I liked them


Under saddle prospects or riding definitely you would want to vet. Most of the horses I've bought have been broodmares, so what I was interested (in the case of the warmblood mares) what their approval scores were, what they had produced and how the foals had scored. If they were open, I might elect to do a pre-purchase reproductive vetting but if there were no indications of problems, I often did not. Most of my original warmblood mares were definitely not within easy driving distance of MT so all but two of my original broodmares were bought either sight unseen on the basis of still photos and pedigree and inspection scores or from a video.

I even bought Weltstern that way ... from a warmblood auction ... bidding by phone.


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

SFM in KY said:


> ....
> I even bought Weltstern that way ... from a warmblood auction ... bidding by phone.



One word: bloodlines!


----------



## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

Well I have never had a high dollar horse. Never bought a horse that cost more then 1200. Never cared much about bloodlines. I simply want a decent trail horse. Is all I have ever looked for. Of course sometimes I got lucky and got some decent bloodlines and other times I got grade and have no idea on bloodlines. If it rides how I like and has the temperament that suites me it's all good to me.
I have bought contingent on vet check. I tried a pre purchase 1 time and it wasn't worth the money I spent, Anytime I was serious about a horse if its any distance I bring the trailer.
Of course as I said my horse world is not high dollar or investments or resell or ... 
I suppose it would be smart for me to do a few visits. Just not the way I have ever done it in 30 years. Overall it has worked for me for what I want/need.
LOL i will just stay away from auctions from now on:>)


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

All I can say is, oh brother...I can commiserate.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

mountainwmn said:


> I do think it's a lot of horse people though. I have been trying to sell a couple saddles that didn't fit my paso and its getting hard to not choke these people before I even see them. I almost never show up with a trailer...I like to think about a horse buy over night. Even to look at a free horse 2 hours away.


I agree, it's much smarter to leave the trailer at home.


----------



## malinda (May 12, 2002)

lamoncha lover said:


> I have bought contingent on vet check. I tried a pre purchase 1 time and it wasn't worth the money I spent, Anytime I was serious about a horse if its any distance I bring the trailer.


A vet check and pre-purchase are the same thing. The vet checks the horse - as little or as in-depth as you want to pay for - before you make the decision to buy it, negotiate the price because of things found in the vet check, or just pass on the horse altogether.


The last horse I sold (just under two years ago) was a piece of cake, actually. I had some really great amateur photos of him at a show, listed him on a website, and posted a video on youtube. Within a month, I had two out of state people look at him, and the second lady came all the way from Kentucky with her trainer and her trailer. They both rode him at my house (after I rode him, of course), followed me to the vet with my horse loaded in the trailer for a pre-purchase exam (flex tests, x-rays, heart/lung check, etc.). She wrote out the check for just under my asking price of $4500 and took him home.

I wish all horses were as easy to sell as he was.


----------



## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

I happy for so many replies to my original post. At least now I know I am not attracting all of the crackpots out there. lol And your experiences make me feel better. I'll keep sticking to it until the right person comes along. She's a sweet girl who I've raised from a weanling but she is so s-l-o-w moving that I don't enjoy riding her. I need more spirit and she is a stop & smell the roses kind of girl. The right person is out there for her, I just have to sort through the crazy ones first.


----------



## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

malinda said:


> A vet check and pre-purchase are the same thing. The vet checks the horse - as little or as in-depth as you want to pay for - before you make the decision to buy it, negotiate the price because of things found in the vet check, or just pass on the horse altogether.
> QUOTE]
> 
> In my example of the one time I had a prepurchase done the horse was out of town and before I made my decision or transferred any money I had the vet go to the barn and do a pre purchase
> ...


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

malinda said:


> ...... negotiate the price because of things found in the vet check, or just pass on the horse altogether.
> .


We tried to renegotiate the price on a horse several years ago when she flunked the PPE, and the owner flipped out on us. She ended up tearing the deposit check into tiny pieces, taping it back together, scanning it and emailing it to us. Then she mailed it back to us. I still have her emails, reminding me how much fun it can be to buy or sell a horse.


----------



## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

have a picture of her? where are you located? price?. size? behavior?maybe if you tell us more someone may know someone...


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> We tried to renegotiate the price on a horse several years ago when she flunked the PPE, and the owner flipped out on us. She ended up tearing the deposit check into tiny pieces, taping it back together, scanning it and emailing it to us. Then she mailed it back to us. I still have her emails, reminding me how much fun it can be to buy or sell a horse.


Wow. Just wow. The mare didn't pass the PPE and she was that dramatic about lowering the price? Sounds like some mental health issues...


----------



## malinda (May 12, 2002)

Irish Pixie said:


> Wow. Just wow. The mare didn't pass the PPE and she was that dramatic about lowering the price? Sounds like some mental health issues...


Wow, that is odd. Years ago a gelding I was selling had some things come up on a PPE. The buyers still really liked him and they were a great home so I let the horse go for about 1/3 of the asking price.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Wow. Just wow. The mare didn't pass the PPE and she was that dramatic about lowering the price? Sounds like some mental health issues...


Yeah..I just went back and reread her email. She was also upset that when we offered a lower price for the mare, part of our reasoning was that we would have to disclose the problem to a potential buyer as well. She was incensed because she thought the mare was going to a forever home with us and we would never sell her. It was okay for HER to sell the mare, but not us.
She also said her vet disagreed with the vet who did the PPE and the short trailer ride to the exam could have caused the lameness that was found. In short, she felt we were overreacting to a mild lameness that would be no problem in a horse used for EVENTING. :smack


----------



## missysid (Feb 21, 2006)

I drove 4 hours to look at a team of mares 2 years ago. Took the mini van and left the truck and trailer at home. I had spoken to the owners a few times - had a description but no photos to go off of. I was looking for a special team that was well broke and kid friendly. We did buy the team of mares and went back 9 days later with the truck and trailer to pick them up. But I am still happy we did not drive it over the first time - I sometimes feel like well I have the trailer I might as well. Plus draft trailer and truck gets about 11 MPG and the mini van gets 27.


----------



## saanengirl (Apr 7, 2009)

I am in the process of looking for horses for my riding program, and I never bring the trailer when I look at a horse. For one thing, since I work for a State University, there is no such thing as getting a horse immediately. I look at the horse, ride the horse, take pictures, and then go back and write a recommendation. If the purchase is approved, then there is all the paperwork that has to go through for the purchase (not to mention the pre-purchase exam). Even if I were looking for a horse for myself I wouldn't bring the trailer. I want to visit the horse first and see if it is really what I want, especially if I have to drive a couple of hours to look at it.


----------



## starjj (May 2, 2005)

Going to jump in and tell the OTHER side of the coin. I find few sellers that are reliable or are dependable as far as setting and keeping time to see a horse.

My experience with an HT er about 2 1.2 years ago has left me unable to TRUST any seller except for a few on here I would trust. One of which is SFM and another is Sidepasser.

I bought a horse through pictures and out of state. Seller was suppose to deliver in June then it was July and so on and so on. Finally asked for my deposit back because they always had an excuse not to deliver. You guessed it. They simply refused all contact with me. I did get a judgement in my favor against them but being it is out of state it is pretty worthless. Seems like I am not the ONLY one they have done this to. Sheriff told me they have a reputation of repeating this type of thing.

Next try was a buyer in state (learned my lesson). Told her since it was a two hour drive I would be leaving early that day to do some sightseeing before I would be over to see the horse. She calls me AFTER I have left and almost to the town and says she wants to move the time to like 7 PM that night. Time would be almost dark and I would get back home very late.

Sorry for the rant but I have about giving up ever having a horse again since the trust issue makes me so paranoid.

I am sure most sellers are honest and trustworthy but I don't seem to be able to find them.


----------



## malinda (May 12, 2002)

I never have taken my truck and trailer when going to look at a horse and probably wouldn't unless I was fairly certain that I would buy it after seeing photos, videos, and speaking to the owners.

Being sometimes on the buying side of horse sales, I have traveled several hours only to find that the horse is nothing like the owner said it was. Some people have no idea of what a Dressage or Event horse should be, and they think because they can run him at a jump and he actually jumps it, that it makes him an Event prospect. One gelding I tried was actually dangerous to ride over fences as he bolted immediately after even small cavalettis, all while the owner had a huge smile on her face, "See, I told you he LOVES to jump!!" :smack


----------



## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

lamoncha lover said:


> have a picture of her? where are you located? price?. size? behavior?maybe if you tell us more someone may know someone...


I will try to figure out how to post some pictures this evening. (I am low on technical skills :smack) I am located just Northwest of Nashville in Springfield, TN

She is 6 years old, current on coggins and shots, 15.2, chestnut with a flaxen mane and tail. Great ground manners, bathes, stands for the farrier, loads in a trailer (90% of the time....she is a pain the other 10% until she decides it was her idea). Comes when called, sweet disposition. On the "get-up & go" scale, I rate her a 2. (with 10 being very highly spirited). She isn't a total dead-head, but just doesn't want to go. No nasty habits. I am asking $750 for her. She is out of shape right now and needs to be worked more regularly. i.e. she is fat! She had had one foal, great mother. She doesn't have shoes on right now but is trimmed every 6 weeks. 

I will get some pictures posted of her.


----------



## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

starjj said:


> Going to jump in and tell the OTHER side of the coin.


LOL, indeed.
I had a decent experience with a seller today. Went to see that mare I've been considering (I've talked with the seller a couple of times)
I only got bad directions the first time and only had to hunt for him for 5 minutes or so when I got good directions.
She is very skinny and shy. He actually was honest enough to say over the phone that she hasn't been handled much for over a year (hooray for honesty!) But I'll have to take his word on that once you catch her she leads and loads alright because he made no attempt to. 

But he was good enough to not try and say she was something that she clearly wasn't and she has a nice trot so I'm seriously considering making an offer.

This was much better then the ones who send you halfway across the continent with bad directions, that you catch in the act of giving it a "vitamin" shot, the ones who swear their horse is "kid broke, dog gentle" because it doesn't kick the snot out of them when they toss a kid on it and drag it around some, that go on and on about how this is their baby (inevitably A: an insanely skinny, neglected thing with sunken eyes and horrid feet or B: a wild and/or vicious beast who is daring you to come One Step Closer) and, Lisa and Malinda's favorite, the ones who are convinced that the poorly trained, overpriced nag in their yard are really Olympic hopefuls.

What would you offer on a skinny mare you couldn't touch, but young, nothing glaringly bad and not mean or distrustful, just shy?


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

No papers? No known pedigree? Not a fancy color? Not broke to ride?

Free horse in today's market.


----------



## DWH Farm (Sep 1, 2010)

Not just horse people.. We breed Large Black Hogs and recently had an ad offering some for sale. We always get a lot of "tire kickers" and "I want it I will be there this weekend - hold it for me and I will never show ups" but this one made me giggle in spite of myself:
After numerous emails back and forth with a "buyer", scanning and sending pictures, pedigrees, parents pedigrees, sending videos of the stock for sale, parents and siblings (which is painful on my computer) and then getting more questions I finally suggested that they just drive down and see the pigs in person. Their reply? " I will have to ask my parents, I am only 13 years old."


----------



## mountainwmn (Sep 11, 2009)

Ugh. People selling are a pain sometimes. I drove far to see a horse and the owner wasn't there. I called she said she was 10 min away, why don't I go in the field and catch her (she's that quiet and bombproof). So I slog through 20 acres of mud to catch a horse, pull her up to her own barn and she is so spooky and nervous I was scared to tie her fast. No ground manners at all. Waited an hour for the owner before I finally turned her back out and left. 20 min later she calls wanting to know where I am. But I never had as many bad experiences as I did looking at gaited horses. If they would tell me these horses were quiet, safe, walked quietly, gaited, and loped I would go look. Couldn't understand what was so hard about that. If the horse doesn't do these things and I drive 2.5 hours to find out you lied to me, then I am going to waste the entire rest of your day.


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

mountainwmn said:


> But I never had as many bad experiences as I did looking at gaited horses. If they would tell me these horses were quiet, safe, walked quietly, gaited, and loped I would go look.


I looked at several gaited horses for someone out of state a couple of different times and I agree, gaited horse people have a different perspective entirely. One of the things I discovered is that if you don't ride like a 'gaited horse rider' ... the horse will not gait! And the way they are ridden, for someone who has only ridden western or dressage, is truly weird. I can't do it.

What really convinced me that it was me ... not necessarily the horse ... was a gelding I got in trade for a pony. Trail horse. Gaited. Quiet. I didn't ride him, just watched him ridden as I didn't intend to keep him anyway. But when I rode him at home, at best I could get him to gait half a dozen strides.

I finally got an offer to trade a Hafflinger mare trained to ride/drive (which I really wanted) for him and I flat told the guy I'd seen him ridden and he would gait but he wouldn't gait for me but I'd never ridden a gaited horse before in my life. I didn't have anything but a dressage saddle and snaffle bit, but if he wanted to come and look at him and try him to bring his own equipment. He came over, threw the saddle on the gelding, put the bridle on him, stepped on and the horse just flew down the road.


----------



## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

SFM when I moved to TN I had never been on a gaited horse. The hardest part for me to transition to was the increased contact. I had a hard time going from loose rein westernstyle to gaited contact. It just made me cringe. this past summer I have been working on Lou. she is so very forward and just acts an uncontrollable witch on a looser rein. By the end of the show season she was finally accepting and mostly in control on a lighter contact. I was so proud of her.This winter we will be doing alot of riding in a snaffle. She needs to learn, and she is ,that she doesn't Need to be cranked.
I have found _Most..._gaited horses just have an energy about them. You can just feel it. Like every muscle is on super vibration.Around here its butt hit the saddle and off!.I work to get my gals to stand quiet until I am ready to go. Now that I actually have a QH again I am just so amazed at the "quietness" message she sends out. I am used to snort and whites of eyes. And she is lowered head and a sigh. I do love the gaited breeds, but happy to add a lil qh mare as well.
Oh and as for loping..it takes a lil work to get a horse that has never loped under saddle that has in fact been trained not to break, to finally do it. But in no time they are very very willing:>) shortly after we moved here I took a gaited horse round the poles at a local show. The folks were surprised and somewhat appalled. The message was very clear to me. I am more brazen the older I get. Hope they are ready for it next year lol


----------



## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

SFM in KY said:


> No papers? No known pedigree? Not a fancy color? Not broke to ride?
> 
> Free horse in today's market.


No papers, no pedigree, pretty shade of bay with a broad blaze, paint but not flashy, seller said halter broken as a youngster and ridden last summer, then turned out in fall & not touched since, foaled in spring and bred back for a mule. Very nice trot.
Why do they always breed them???:flame:

Anyone want to find me something not messed with much, 3 to 5, mare or gelding, delivered into my pasture with halter and lead rope for 200 or so?


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

lamoncha lover said:


> SFM when I moved to TN I had never been on a gaited horse.


Oddly enough, I've actually owned two gaited horses, but both were single-footing horses, not TWH and/or racking horses. The first was a mare that my grandfather trained that I rode from the time I was ten through my teen years. He was a cowboy all his life and told me he trained all of his horses to singlefoot because it was so much easier to ride.

Then when I was living on the ranch in MT the two years before I moved to KY and was riding again, a lot, I bought a little gelding that would singlefoot, supposed to be a Paso/QH cross. But both those singlefooting horses would walk and gallop with no problem and they worked like any western horse did on a loose rein. The mare would trot, in fact she was absolutely not naturally gaited, but the gelding was naturally gaited and had no trot. Neither of them were hot or difficult at all.

If I were to ever be someplace where I could do a lot of riding again, I would actually look for something that would singlefoot ... probably one of the Rocky Mountain horses.


----------



## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

Otter said:


> Anyone want to find me something not messed with much, 3 to 5, mare or gelding, delivered into my pasture with halter and lead rope for 200 or so?


Dang, wish you were closer. I have two boys (little older than that age range, though) that need to find new homes so I can get more time in on the others. Willing to give to a good home- just having a devil of a time finding the right home.


----------



## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Single foot- Tolt. ;O) 

My Icelandic's can have energy, but they are just as happy puttering about on a loose rein. They follow my lead.
Stjarna is so calm and level headed it is really relaxing to ride her.
And standing next to Icelandic's while grooming, they are so relax they can just about put you to sleep. 

LL if you ever go gaited again.. find yourself a nice quiet single footer like SFM said or Icelandic .... there are still some nice level headed gaited horses out there, that will gait calmly on a loose rein. ;O)


----------



## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

Another vote for single footers 

My mare is KMSHA registered, painted and patterned (bald face, four high whites and so highly roaned that she's actually pink  ) and gaits easily on a loose rein. She neck reins too, which I dearly love. I've never been comfortable riding anything but a gaited beast.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Otter said:


> No papers, no pedigree, pretty shade of bay with a broad blaze, paint but not flashy, seller said halter broken as a youngster and ridden last summer, then turned out in fall & not touched since, foaled in spring and bred back for a mule. Very nice trot.
> Why do they always breed them???:flame:
> 
> Anyone want to find me something not messed with much, 3 to 5, mare or gelding, delivered into my pasture with halter and lead rope for 200 or so?


Empty Uterus Syndrome. :grumble: :grit:


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Irish Pixie said:


> Empty Uterus Syndrome. :grumble: :grit:


I never did really think I suffered from that syndrome, but it really did bother me when I kept all 10/12 or however many mares I had open for three years. It wasn't that I resented feeding them if they weren't producing ... I knew with the market as it was the foals would not be readily saleable and nursing mares require twice as much feed to maintain as an open mare ... but it really was the idea that I had broodmares and they weren't being bred.

Logically, the thing to do was NOT to breed them. But my gut said they shouldn't be open! :grump:


----------



## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

well angel now will move out on a loose rein. It has taken a bit of doing though. So I don't want to sound like all the horses round here are hot.I can actually drop the reins with her and do most all with butt and legs. Lou on the other hand..oh my. I have my work cut out for me.
as for the open uterus syndrome. IF I would do what I reallllly want to do (as in breed one of my mares) maybe then I would quit dragging horses home. 4 mares and no babies for like 17 years. I would not breed to sell just to keep.I for sure have empty uterus disease. And I have not found a cure


----------



## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

SFM in KY said:


> What really convinced me that it was me ... not necessarily the horse ... was a gelding I got in trade for a pony. Trail horse. Gaited. Quiet. I didn't ride him, just watched him ridden as I didn't intend to keep him anyway. But when I rode him at home, at best I could get him to gait half a dozen strides.


This is why it is great to have so many different breeds available.  I love gaited horses but put me on a quarter horse or something else that trots and I feel like I am four-wheeling in rough country. Too bouncy for me. But do totally understand that you have to know how to make a horse gait. My first experience was at a show barn where I went with a friend who had a horse in training and while there, one of the guys asked me if I wanted to try out one of their horses. SURE! Now this was a padded horse (mine are strictly for trails, no pads), and all the trainer told me was the harder I pulled back on the reins, the faster the horse would go. :huh: Totally the opposite of what I thought. BUt, it is the truth. My gelding has a beautiful gait but we do most everything on a looser rein. I just give him a kiss-kiss and off we go.


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

The way you sit a gaited horse is also very different from the way I've ridden all my life and I can't make my body really establish the position or stay in it.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I'm not anti-breeding, I bred Appaloosa and Warmblood Sport horses for years, I am very totally absolutely anti-breeding anything simply because it has a uterus or testicles. :flame: As C.V. Whitney said, and it's as true today as it was a 100 years ago, "Breed the best to the best and hope for the best." If it doesn't have near perfect conformation, temperment, and movement- don't breed it. For Pete's sake, never ever breed anything with any genetic problems! :grit:

Rant over, thanks for listening.


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm not anti-breeding, I bred Appaloosa and Warmblood Sport horses for years, I am very totally absolutely anti-breeding anything simply because it has a uterus or testicles. :flame: As C.V. Whitney said, and it's as true today as it was a 100 years ago, "Breed the best to the best and hope for the best." If it doesn't have near perfect conformation, temperment, and movement- don't breed it. For Pete's sake, never ever breed anything with any genetic problems! :grit:
> 
> Rant over, thanks for listening.


I tend to agree, but realistically EVERY animal has genetic problems. In my study of genetics, I read that EVERY (dog in that book) has several deadly genetic flaws and a bunch more nasty ones. So, I wouldn't consider a dog with an expressed serious genetic flaw "the best" and wasn't likely (when I bred dogs) to be breeding material... 

To breed the best to the best and hope for the best really means to breed for strength, for overall quality and brilliance and that hoping part means that the ones that are not successful will have to be culled (at the least removed from the breeding stock). Really great bloodlines in any livestock come from breeding intensively for the desired traits and culling anything that doesn't measure up and it means breeding a lot to get that one brilliant individual that you can use to carry on a bloodline. 

In today's anti breeder, anti cull, animal rights environment that is extremely hard. Now, mind you, personally I am a pet lover and I find it hard to breed that way, esp. if you come up with individuals that will have to be put down. BTW, you will come up with genetic flaws that have to be euthanized, no matter how you breed, it IS going to happen. 

I was just thinking "breed the best to the best and *HOPE FOR THE BEST *" isn't at all the same as "For Pete's sake, never ever breed anything with any genetic problems!" but actually contradicts that, if your best is to breed an exceptional animal. The best for whatever traits you want to breed is very likely to also be one that has genetic weakness somewhere. It's always a choice and, for a serious breeder, never an easy one. 

I quit breeding dogs when it was no longer the passion of my heart to try to create a living work of art and I was no longer ready to make really hard choices. 

I hope I was able to express what is in my heart regarding these things, it is not personal to Irish Pixie, but that statement reminded me of what it was like to be a breeder, why I did it, what it meant to me.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

With genetic issues such as HYPP, CID, HERD, GBED, PSSM, and OLWS (to name a few) fairly common it should be important to know what you're doing. Unfortunately, there are breeders that are either clueless (I don't know how with the information available) or that just don't care... To me, it's immoral and unethical to breed a horse that has a high probability of inheriting a condition like the one's I've mentioned. Just my humble opinion.


----------



## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

sfm..I didn't notice a big position change from riding my non gaited to gaited horses. At the risk of sounding stupid...the western horsemen I have talked to have told me to ride more on my back pockets. I am unable to do that do to some back/ pain problems. I have a more (for lack of a better word?) more upright on my seat position. my pelvis is not tipped forward. I don't know if I explained it right but am wondering if that is why I never noticed a positioning change from non gaited to gaited? I am curious to see how it is to go back to non gaited once dottie is rideable. I may notice a huge difficulty there.


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Irish Pixie - I don't really disagree with you, you do need to know what you are doing, I kinda forgot the important part of really doing your homework and studying your species and breed and having a firm goal and reason to breed before you start! Some conditions are crippling or deadly and today, unlike when I was seriously breeding dogs, many of them have simple genetic tests to use as great tools to avoid breeding crippling problems.


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

lamoncha lover said:


> sfm..I didn't notice a big position change from riding my non gaited to gaited horses. At the risk of sounding stupid...the western horsemen I have talked to have told me to ride more on my back pockets. .


I have always had a very 'upright' position riding, western or dressage ... my grandfather rode that way, that's the way I learned to ride and my dressage instructor in Spain was classically trained and he really reinforced the position. I can't imagine riding on my "hip pockets".

Most of the gaited horse riders I see here in KY just at the horse sales, etc. look very much like the photo I'm posting here ... shoulders rounded, kind of 'slumped' position, legs somewhat forward. I don't know if it is correct or incorrect but this photo looks exactly like 90% of the gaited horse riders I've seen.










This isn't a very good photo but it was taken of me when I was being schooled on one of the Spanish horses in Spain and shows the type of seat I was told to have when riding one of the traditional Spanish saddles. The only difference in this position and my dressage position was longer stirrups with the dressage saddle. Body position and seat is pretty much identical.


----------



## malinda (May 12, 2002)

I don't ride gaited horses any different than non-gaited horses. I try to sit balanced, not tipped forward or leaning backward, and have not had problems getting a horse to gait - I even use a snaffle bit and my hunt saddle! Years ago I was helping a friend shop for a gaited horse. She didn't know what type of gaited horse she wanted, so we spent a summer looking and tried just about everything - Tennessee Walkers, Paso Finos, Peruvian Pasos, Kentucky Mountain horses, Rocky Mountain horses, Icelandics, Missouri Fox Trotters, and probably a few others. I much prefer a trotting horse - I can post for hours and it's a nice diagonal gait- gaited horses seem shifty and twisty to me.


----------



## mountainwmn (Sep 11, 2009)

This has gone in a bunch of different directions, but I don't find my basic position to be too much different for the gaited horses. But none of them seem to be the same. I didn't have a problem getting any of them to gait, its usually walking they can't do. And loping. I find that its just a matter of creating some go...and usually without any leg, and then holding it where you want it with the reins. My guy I actually just pick up the reins ...I hold them higher than a stock horse...and think about going faster to gait. But I calmed him down so much he will try to trot sometimes, and I just starting having to back it up with a touch of leg. My reins are very short, and I can feel his mouth, but its a feather light feel. Then I lower the reins and kiss for a canter or drop them and think about walking for a walk.


----------

