# Remote learning even more remote as online education system crashes on first day of school in NC



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Remote learning even more remote as online education system crashes on NC's first day of school :: WRAL.com


A statewide online education system that students and teachers use for online learning went down Monday on the first day of school in North Carolina, with many districts holding only remote classes because of the coronavirus pandemic.




www.wral.com





"RALEIGH, N.C. — A statewide online education system that students and teachers use for online learning went down Monday on the first day of school in North Carolina, with many districts holding only remote classes because of the coronavirus pandemic.

NCEdCloud experienced technical issues for a few hours, returning to service by 11 a.m.

The state Department of Public Instruction said Monday afternoon that the vendor that created NCEdCloud, Identity Automation, was still investigating the outage so it wouldn't happen again."

This couldn't happen if they simply returned to school.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

They could return to school just to be sent back home when Covid is passed around just like so many schools have had to. It was up and running by 11am so not really a fail.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Remote learning even more remote as online education system crashes on NC's first day of school :: WRAL.com
> 
> 
> A statewide online education system that students and teachers use for online learning went down Monday on the first day of school in North Carolina, with many districts holding only remote classes because of the coronavirus pandemic.
> ...


Sounds like no big deal. It happens.


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Remote learning even more remote as online education system crashes on NC's first day of school :: WRAL.com
> 
> 
> A statewide online education system that students and teachers use for online learning went down Monday on the first day of school in North Carolina, with many districts holding only remote classes because of the coronavirus pandemic.
> ...


Or it wasn't backwards North Carolina.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Is someone from Arkansas seriously calling NC backwards? 

Apologies to the non-hypocritical Arkansans out there. 😘


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

They were back up the same day.

I'm not surprised.
I've worked places that had glitches, seen online shopping encounter glitches, etc.
My gosh, 911 manages to go out in my area at times too.


----------



## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Lisa in WA said:


> Is someone from Arkansas seriously calling NC backwards?
> 
> Apologies to the non-hypocritical Arkansans out there. 😘


Waving at everyone from the southern part of a state that is currently cutting people's power with rolling blackouts because it's too hot for them to supply power to everybody...

Should we have a backward state competition? Sounds fun!


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

A friend told me today her daughter at UNC only got one week of real school now they are remote.

Backwards? Why can't we all get along?


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Lisa in WA said:


> Is someone from Arkansas seriously calling NC backwards?
> 
> Apologies to the non-hypocritical Arkansans out there.


Yes I surely am.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Love it or hate it, I think this will be a disruptor. By disruptor I mean this will change the face of education. Gone will be the inflated budgets and bond elections. A student could learn from any school in the world they wanted to ( and could afford). The strong will survive and Teaching will have to evolve. It will become more capitalistic and less socialistic. 

Just my opinion. You heard it here first.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

If this online learning deal takes a hold it will give a lot of the teachers who feel so underpaid and unappreciated a bit more incentive to move on to other jobs.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> Love it or hate it, I think this will be a disruptor. By disruptor I mean this will change the face of education. Gone will be the inflated budgets and bond elections. A student could learn from any school in the world they wanted to ( and could afford). The strong will survive and Teaching will have to evolve. It will become more capitalistic and less socialistic.
> 
> Just my opinion. You heard it here first.


I like your opinion, that would be a game changer. IMHO it is time for a change, maybe not so much a change but an evolution.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Online teaching and learning is not new. There are children who have been learning online for years.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> Online teaching and learning is not new. There are children who have been learning online for years.


Yes, one of my nephews is doing his core education classes for college online, he's in high school now. He loves taking classes online.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> Backwards? Why can't we all get along?


I was told it has to do with "animosity" or something like that.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

SLFarmMI said:


> Online teaching and learning is not new. There are children who have been learning online for years.



Perhaps it should all be done online. A few large online learning centers could teach every student in the country. No need for property tax support for schools, way fewer teachers to pay, and let everyone pay for their own kid's education for a change. It gives me a tingle up my leg just thinking about it.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

poppy said:


> Perhaps it should all be done online. A few large online learning centers could teach every student in the country. No need for property tax support for schools, way fewer teachers to pay, and let everyone pay for their own kid's education for a change. It gives me a tingle up my leg just thinking about it.


I’m sure treating teachers like nothing more than babysitters and children like nothing more than products does absolutely thrill you.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

SLFarmMI said:


> I’m sure treating teachers like nothing more than babysitters and children like nothing more than products does absolutely thrill you.



Huh? I am serious. You agree online learning works, right? Why would you not want something that works? I have to attend seminars to keep my certification for my state license. The seminars are held nearly 100 miles from my home. That results in me having to drive 200 miles round trip plus sit in a seminar all day, I've suggested they do them online for several years. Due to the virus, they are doing them online this year. Had one 2 weeks ago and it was great. Have another in Sept. and one in Nov. There are generally a couple hundred at each seminar. Think of the time and gas saved doing them online, plus I learn just as much and don't have to listen to stupid question from people who can't pay attention to what is being said.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SLFarmMI said:


> Online teaching and learning is not new. There are children who have been learning online for years.


Yes but this time we have the perfect storm. Parents are working at home and kids are learning at home. I don't think the working at home if going away for many.


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

It's just the logical thing to do but that's the problem. We're going to have to wait until the government can figure out a way to have it cost as much or more than the current brick and mortar system does. Can't have taxes going down now, can we?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> Love it or hate it, I think this will be a disruptor. By disruptor I mean this will change the face of education. Gone will be the inflated budgets and bond elections. A student could learn from any school in the world they wanted to ( and could afford). The strong will survive and Teaching will have to evolve. It will become more capitalistic and less socialistic.
> 
> Just my opinion. You heard it here first.


I think the real change will happen if we see some meaningful legislation freeing people from the tether of paying for under performing public schools, and then someone makes a viable business out of online education.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> I’m sure treating teachers like nothing more than babysitters and children like nothing more than products does absolutely thrill you.


You are so blinded by your loyalty to the status quo you did not even understand what he said.


----------



## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> I’m sure treating teachers like nothing more than babysitters and children like nothing more than products does absolutely thrill you.


For sure - picture it like Willie Wonka's chocolate factory - kids (the raw goods) going in at age 5, being spewed out at age 16 without any sprinkles of learning sticking to the "finished" product.....

When one considers the failure of public schools in teaching the kids to reason rather than just spew back facts and the lowering of SAT scores, yes, many teachers are just "woke" babysitters doin' their time.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

gilberte said:


> It's just the logical thing to do but that's the problem. We're going to have to wait until the government can figure out a way to have it cost as much or more than the current brick and mortar system does. Can't have taxes going down now, can we?


Government will fight it. The inertia of the status quo and its supporting power base would fight anything, no matter how good it is.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> You are so blinded by your loyalty to the status quo you did not even understand what he said.


That kind of response you replied to is rampant in the population. There is no in between for these people. No middle ground. 

It will still change I think. When Mama and/or Daddy are both working from from home things will change. As it was last year this was not possible.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> That kind of response you replied to is rampant in the population. There is no in between for these people. No middle ground.
> 
> It will still change I think. When Mama and/or Daddy are both working from from home things will change. As it was last year this was not possible.


There is no middle ground.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Did any of you go to public schools?


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SLADE said:


> Did any of you go to public schools?


I'm sure most of us did. What does that have to do with disruptors?

Our feelings on the matter won't change a thing.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

mreynolds said:


> That kind of response you replied to is rampant in the population. There is no in between for these people. No middle ground.
> 
> *It will still change I think.* When Mama and/or Daddy are both working from from home things will change. As it was last year this was not possible.


I agree. Just like the restaurant business will change forever because of the virus. Many people have learned how to cook during the virus and now realize they can eat at home for a fraction of the money and cooking is not hard at all. Lots of restaurants are gone for good IMO. The lockdown changed a lot of things.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

They should have contracted an existing online education platform instead of getting a bunch of daydrinking government workers to cobble something together.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Online teaching and learning is not new. There are children who have been learning online for years.


But when my children did it, I was constantly told by public school teachers how horrible it was for their education.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

SLADE said:


> Did any of you go to public schools?



Yes I did back in the 50's and 60's. The ones here were pretty competent. I had some great teachers I remember fondly and some lousy teachers who couldn't teach a dog to bark. Things have gotten worse over the years. Teachers back then were given latitude to teach students according to their capability to learn. Like everything else, public education has become too centralized. It holds back gifted learners and promotes slower learners even if they aren't learning. Blame a lot of it on creation of the department of education. Look up the math scores of high school graduates in this country and tell me it's working.


----------



## random (Jul 23, 2020)

barnbilder said:


> They should have contracted an existing online education platform instead of getting a bunch of daydrinking government workers to cobble something together.


While failures can happen, the consistency of such failures occurring with government online offerings is, to me, professionally embarrassing. It indicates either (or both) a lack of understanding of the actual demands a system, or a failure to properly test the system under such loads. That sort of load testing isn't really that difficult to do, so not doing it is either laziness or poor planning.


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Mish said:


> Should we have a backward state competition? Sounds fun!


West Virginia here. Too many backwards issues to list... but I love it as it is


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Mish said:


> Waving at everyone from the southern part of a state that is currently cutting people's power with rolling blackouts because it's too hot for them to supply power to everybody...
> 
> Should we have a backward state competition? Sounds fun!


Yeah, you’d think they’d be prepared for the heat and huge power demands at this point.


----------



## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Redlands Okie said:


> If this online learning deal takes a hold it will give a lot of the teachers who feel so underpaid and unappreciated a bit more incentive to move on to other jobs.


College teachers on line make the same as if they were in the class room teaching. Thats in Ca. My child has been teaching on line college coruses for 5 years for a college in Ariz. She is also teaching on line at a State college and Jr. college in ca. now until Jan. In Jan they will decide if they will continue all on line teaching. She has the same number of people on line that she teachs just like if she was in the class room. She makes over $100,000 a year teaching and has a very good retirement build up. Durning the summer when not teaching she draws unemployment.


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> I’m sure treating teachers like nothing more than babysitters and children like nothing more than products does absolutely thrill you.


Ummm... teachers are largely already treated like babysitters. On-line learning would stop that. Like many sectors of society, many teachers would be made redundant. That has already happened in many other fields.

Like automation and robotics in other fields, on-line learning would produce a better, more uniform result... we are seeking better results aren't we???


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

SLADE said:


> Did any of you go to public schools?


Sure did... and a good one too! My daughter went to the same school later and because of the changes in what and how she was being taught and the overall "social condition" (random violence, drugs, disruptive and violent students... most of which was "tolerated") of the school, her mother and I withdrew her and started homeschooling. Other kids and now grand kids followed suit.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I just scanned quickly through a few of the posts. Given that we are operating under difficult circumstances, the nice thing to do would be to cut the system some slack. Getting a whole nation of students online with just a few weeks notice is a HUGE challenge. My older son works for Comcast, and keeping an established system up and running is headache enough. Setting up a whole new system would normally take a year or more to to correctly, if you consider the design stages, etc.

I also am distressed at the attacks on teachers. Granted, it's been fifteen years since I was in the classroom, but I was an excellent teacher, and most of the ones I know now are giving it everything they can.


----------



## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I just scanned quickly through a few of the posts. Given that we are operating under difficult circumstances, the nice thing to do would be to cut the system some slack. Getting a whole nation of students online with just a few weeks notice is a HUGE challenge. My older son works for Comcast, and keeping an established system up and running is headache enough. Setting up a whole new system would normally take a year or more to to correctly, if you consider the design stages, etc.
> 
> I also am distressed at the attacks on teachers. Granted, it's been fifteen years since I was in the classroom, but I was an excellent teacher, and most of the ones I know now are giving it everything they can.


I love teachers. Have a bunch of them in my family and they all care deeply about their jobs/children.

The public school system on the other hand...I mean, honestly most of the teachers I know hate it too.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

The fact that the schools waited until they only had a few weeks to prepare is a large part of the problem. If the system sent the kids home at the end of last year for whatever reason then they should have started preparing right then and there, months ago. Yes I realize it typical government procedure. 

I really do think many of the current teachers have problems, and perhaps should not be teaching or at least be under better supervision. Not all of them. I also really do think that its amazing that any of them get done what they should be doing. They seem to have their hands tied behind their back with the way they are allowed to handle (or should I say not handle) disruptive students. So much time and paperwork spent to take care of requirments that has little to do with the actual job of providing the kids a education. More parents than in the past seem to have little or no interest in their child’s education. It’s a lot for the teachers to deal with.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

My kids and I have had some great teachers. We’ve also had several who had no business interacting with kids on any level...let alone teaching.
Just like everything else, there is good and bad and a duck ton of mediocre.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

101pigs said:


> College teachers on line make the same as if they were in the class room teaching. Thats in Ca. My child has been teaching on line college coruses for 5 years for a college in Ariz. She is also teaching on line at a State college and Jr. college in ca. now until Jan. In Jan they will decide if they will continue all on line teaching. She has the same number of people on line that she teachs just like if she was in the class room. She makes over $100,000 a year teaching and has a very good retirement build up. Durning the summer when not teaching she draws unemployment.


Good for her and its always nice to hear of someone happy with their job and being successful at it. Adapting to the needs of her field is probably not always a easy process. 

I realize the unemployment process is part of the lifestyle but things like that still are a bit irksome. I realize that by no means is she the only one to do so. Seems to be the way of things now.


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I also am distressed at the attacks on teachers. Granted, it's been fifteen years since I was in the classroom, but I was an excellent teacher, and most of the ones I know now are giving it everything they can.


I hope my posts didn't come across as an attack. There are far, far more good, caring teachers than bad ones... and from your posts a believe you were the former rather than the later. My problem is with the virulent big government unionists that blindly support poor to failing systems. I support the local, community run "one room" schools and homeschooling rather than public or even private (for profit) schools. I don't think big government or business have any place in education.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Redlands Okie said:


> The fact that the schools waited until they only had a few weeks to prepare is a large part of the problem. If the system sent the kids home at the end of last year for whatever reason then they should have started preparing right then and there, months ago. Yes I realize it typical government procedure.
> 
> I really do think many of the current teachers have problems, and perhaps should not be teaching or at least be under better supervision. Not all of them. I also really do think that its amazing that any of them get done what they should be doing. They seem to have their hands tied behind their back with the way they are allowed to handle (or should I say not handle) disruptive students. So much time and paperwork spent to take care of requirments that has little to do with the actual job of providing the kids a education. More parents than in the past seem to have little or no interest in their child’s education. It’s a lot for the teachers to deal with.


Not sure where you got the idea that schools waited until the last minute to prepare. I know that mine (or I should say my former district since I have a new job now) sure didn’t. We’ve been meeting and planning all summer. So have the districts around us. March through June were spent trying to manage teaching online while determining needs for the fall.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I also am distressed at the attacks on teachers. Granted, it's been fifteen years since I was in the classroom, but I was an excellent teacher, and most of the ones I know now are giving it everything they can.


I salute the hard working men and women dedicated to giving a child their best effort every day to elevate them and improve their opportunities in life to the best of their abilities. My wife was in education, our daughter and many other family and friends.
The ones who are only putting in their time, who bring personal issues to the classroom, who lack the inspiration and desire for their profession, not so much. 
I also have little patience for those who are sycophants for a dying system that kills the futures of tens of thousands of urban, inner city kids; who care more about money, politics and the loss of control than they do about our future generation.
Those people have no business in a school building or living off of our tax dollars.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I just scanned quickly through a few of the posts. Given that we are operating under difficult circumstances, the nice thing to do would be to cut the system some slack. Getting a whole nation of students online with just a few weeks notice is a HUGE challenge. My older son works for Comcast, and keeping an established system up and running is headache enough. Setting up a whole new system would normally take a year or more to to correctly, if you consider the design stages, etc.
> 
> I also am distressed at the attacks on teachers. Granted, it's been fifteen years since I was in the classroom, but I was an excellent teacher, and most of the ones I know now are giving it everything they can.


We all know it is not the teacher's fault. The teacher is the hero in situation 0.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> My kids and I have had some great teachers. We’ve also had several who had no business interacting with kids on any level...let alone teaching.
> Just like everything else, there is good and bad and a duck ton of mediocre.


found this old thread about me complaining about a teacher. Still amazes me. 








Really awful teacher!


My daughter has been dealing with a teacher in the last 3 years of high school that I have no idea how he manages to stay employed. Every single marking period my daughter has had to take her report card or progress report to have her grade adjusted because he forgets to record grades into his...




www.homesteadingtoday.com


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> Not sure where you got the idea that schools waited until the last minute to prepare. I know that mine (or I should say my former district since I have a new job now) sure didn’t. We’ve been meeting and planning all summer. So have the districts around us. March through June were spent trying to manage teaching online while determining needs for the fall.


I was basically responding to a comment in a post from Alice in TX/MO. Personally I have been watching my local school system decide within 2 and half weeks of school starting to change from in school to in school and online combination. Acquainted with a couple of teachers and several staff and I probably cannot adequately describe their frustration with the school board and powers that be. 









Alice In TX/MO said:


> I just scanned quickly through a few of the posts. Given that we are operating under difficult circumstances, the nice thing to do would be to cut the system some slack. Getting a whole nation of students online with just a few weeks notice is a HUGE challenge. My older son works for Comcast, and keeping an established system up and running is headache enough. Setting up a whole new system would normally take a year or more to to correctly, if you consider the design stages, etc.
> 
> I also am distressed at the attacks on teachers. Granted, it's been fifteen years since I was in the classroom, but I was an excellent teacher, and most of the ones I know now are giving it everything they can.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

poppy said:


> Huh? I am serious. You agree online learning works, right? Why would you not want something that works? I have to attend seminars to keep my certification for my state license. The seminars are held nearly 100 miles from my home. That results in me having to drive 200 miles round trip plus sit in a seminar all day, I've suggested they do them online for several years. Due to the virus, they are doing them online this year. Had one 2 weeks ago and it was great. Have another in Sept. and one in Nov. There are generally a couple hundred at each seminar. Think of the time and gas saved doing them online, plus I learn just as much and don't have to listen to stupid question from people who can't pay attention to what is being said.


Online learning works for some kids. Not for the majority and, as any teacher can tell you, it is not best practice. It is definitely not best practice for the younger kids. BTW, adults learn differently than children so you really can’t compare your online as an adult with that of a child.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I respect teachers. I also respect people who worked in the whaling industry. Also lamplighters, town criers, and coachmen.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

barnbilder said:


> I respect teachers. I also respect people who worked in the whaling industry. Also lamplighters, town criers, and coachmen.


You have it all wrong. The stone age ended because they ran out of stones.


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

barnbilder said:


> I respect teachers. I also respect people who worked in the whaling industry. Also lamplighters, town criers, and coachmen.


What about the nightsoil collectors?


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

barnbilder said:


> I respect teachers. I also respect people who worked in the whaling industry. Also lamplighters, town criers, and coachmen.



If those groups would have had unions we would see people on here arguing how we can't live without town criers and lamplighters and they would be government employees.


----------



## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

poppy said:


> If those groups would have had unions we would see people on here arguing how we can't live without town criers and lamplighters and they would be government employees.


Bravo! Well played!


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

homesteadforty said:


> What about the nightsoil collectors?


There's lots of that being shoveled.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

poppy said:


> If those groups would have had unions we would see people on here arguing how we can't live without town criers and lamplighters and they would be government employees.


You laugh but this is serious business.......









Horseless Detroit Department Employs ... Horseshoer


Job description last revised in 1967




www.newser.com





_Detroit's Water and Sewerage Department doesn't have any horses—but if it ever gets any, it's totally prepared. The city employs a "horseshoer," whose job it is "to shoe horses and to do general blacksmith work ... and to perform related work as required," Michigan Capitol Confidential reports, noting that the job description was last revised in 1967. The horseshoer makes $29,245 a year, with $27,000 in benefits._ 

So, if you need a horse shoed you can send it to the Detroit water and sewage dept. I mean, he gets paid to do nothing anyway. It should be a local service for all of the people there.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Do they have a division of mounted police?


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Do they have a division of mounted police?


Hey, Detroit is pretty bad, but I don't think BLM is actually taking officers to the taxidermist quite yet.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Do they have a division of mounted police?



If they do, they likely ride camels.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

homesteadforty said:


> What about the nightsoil collectors?


Highly respect them, few left in present times. Septic tanks still need cleaned.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)




----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Zoom allows recording of all sessions. A good thing. Parents can better understand what is being taught.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

painterswife said:


> Zoom allows recording of all sessions. A good thing. Parents can better understand what is being taught.


The modern version of the first estate is about to get sunburned.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

kinderfeld said:


> View attachment 90307


That type of indoctrination is happening far too much anymore to be an outlier.


----------



## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Mish said:


> Waving at everyone from the southern part of a state that is currently cutting people's power with rolling blackouts because it's too hot for them to supply power to everybody...
> 
> Should we have a backward state competition? Sounds fun!


boy, I would have proudly put minnesota in a good light and far from winning your challenge, until the previous governor mumbled his way through a terrible administration wrecking what was good in this state, and the current administration bungled us through the social and virus issues going on.

Now I’m just ashamed of my state.

Paul


----------



## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

poppy said:


> Huh? I am serious. You agree online learning works, right? Why would you not want something that works? I have to attend seminars to keep my certification for my state license. The seminars are held nearly 100 miles from my home. That results in me having to drive 200 miles round trip plus sit in a seminar all day, I've suggested they do them online for several years. Due to the virus, they are doing them online this year. Had one 2 weeks ago and it was great. Have another in Sept. and one in Nov. There are generally a couple hundred at each seminar. Think of the time and gas saved doing them online, plus I learn just as much and don't have to listen to stupid question from people who can't pay attention to what is being said.


do you have kids? I don’t, but.......

by all accounts, kids are not learning well at all from the online learning stuff.

a few will shine, but most kids (and most adults too...) do much better in live, hands on, face toface education.

there is so much lost when you sit in your kitchen and have a tablet screen to stare at and absorb 2 dimensional info.

again, a few kids likely will do better on line than in person, but that is not the normal.

kids will suffer for this.

then, parent work. Where do the kids go? Doesn’t so,done have to babysit them? So they will be in groups somewhere being babysat anyhow. Commingling their germs anyhow. Will the babysitters haveinternet access? Will they force the kids to sit through the school day? I think this blows it all to hell. Even if online kids schooling marginally works, this paragraph kills it all.

it is not going to end well, it will not give us prepared kids.

There is no tingle.

paul


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

I was reading an article yesterday about some school districts trying a different tactic. The schools are still shut down but parents are complaining that they cannot go to work without their kids going to school. Sorta makes the schools sound like babysitters for some people. Anyway, since the schools are ordered by their states to shut down, some are opening as 'learning centers' and charging various prices to 'allow kids to learn' and 'interact with other children'. Sort of defeats the supposed purpose of closing the schools.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Zoom allows recording of all sessions. A good thing. Parents can better *understand *what is being taught.


Why do you always assume and imply others don't understand simply because they don't agree with you?
People know what is (and isn't) being taught.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

painterswife said:


> Zoom allows recording of all sessions. A good thing. Parents can better understand what is being taught.


In theory yes it should. But you and I know that it will be trolled more than used.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Zoom allows recording of all sessions. A good thing. Parents can better understand what is being taught.


Yes and no. Zoom allows recording but only the host is allowed to record the session unless he or she grants recording permission to individual participants during the meeting. Then that opens up a whole other can of worms. Some parents do not allow their children to be photographed or recorded.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

If we all do our parts, in the spirit of the village raising a child, we should be able to cure a lot of societal ills with the next generations. "Remember 2020" will become a rallying cry to rival the Alamo. History and science will allow the truth to shine through, as it always does. "Remember the year that certain people turned your world upside down, using irrational fear, for purely political reasons?". You would think they would be rushing to get the kiddos back in there to reinforce the brainwashing timbers that have no doubt already been weakened due to observations of reality. Fortunately "they" are not very intelligent, cause or affect of their affliction not clear, and they falsely believe that the very things they are doing will strengthen their cause and their ranks. Kids are smart, and they can see through things, at least the smart ones can, treating them like they are stupid just because there are some things they haven't learned yet is a big mistake on the part of ineffective parents and educators.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Zoom allows recording of all sessions. A good thing. Parents can better understand what is being taught.


Many school districts are asking parents to sign an agreement to not watch, or record online classes


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Add another one to the list...
Parents Prohibited From Monitoring Child's Online Education Without Teacher's Permission


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Add another one to the list...
> Parents Prohibited From Monitoring Child's Online Education Without Teacher's Permission


God forbid that the other students in your kid's classroom be afforded any privacy. Would you want some stranger recording your child without your consent? If it was my kid, you better not be filming without my consent. If your child struggles in school would you want those struggles to be recorded for other parents to comment on? Do you know which children in your child's class are not allowed to be photographed or recorded? This is nothing more than a hysterical parent spreading her anti-teacher conspiracy theories. And you'll eat it right up.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

SLADE said:


> Did any of you go to public schools?


 Yup!


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

SLFarmMI said:


> God forbid that the other students in your kid's classroom be afforded any privacy. Would you want some stranger recording your child without your consent? If it was my kid, you better not be filming without my consent. If your child struggles in school would you want those struggles to be recorded for other parents to comment on? Do you know which children in your child's class are not allowed to be photographed or recorded? This is nothing more than a hysterical parent spreading her anti-teacher conspiracy theories. And you'll eat it right up.



OTOH it would be good for some parents to see what is happening. They may notice little Johnny is goofing around or staring out the window instead of paying attention and be able to change his attitude while studying.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

If I have to get a teacher’s permission to observe or otherwise be aware of my child’s classroom activities then they won’t be in the front of my child’s classroom any longer.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> God forbid that the other students in your kid's classroom be afforded any privacy. Would you want some stranger recording your child without your consent? If it was my kid, you better not be filming without my consent. If your child struggles in school would you want those struggles to be recorded for other parents to comment on? Do you know which children in your child's class are not allowed to be photographed or recorded? This is nothing more than a hysterical parent spreading her anti-teacher conspiracy theories. And you'll eat it right up.


Why do you assume a parent wanting to protect or be involved with their child is going to have bad intentions for others ?

Seems the real problem is someone is selecting to use a poorly designed software system that does not protect its users.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

[



SLFarmMI said:


> Yes and no. Zoom allows recording but only the host is allowed to record the session unless he or she grants recording permission to individual participants during the meeting. Then that opens up a whole other can of worms. Some parents do not allow their children to be photographed or recorded.


There are options to record if you are not the host. They are just not through Zoom.

I understand the problems with privacy and other children. I am just explaing that it is not private once it is online. There is always a way.

I will add this. Younger children should have a parent or caregiver in the room on all zoom like sessions because this is the internet. The teacher is not in the room and can not see what else may be on the screen. That is my opinion.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Redlands Okie said:


> Why do you assume a parent wanting to protect or be involved with their child is going to have bad intentions for others ?
> .


Because it isn’t the parents or the child’s best interests that seems to be the concern,but rather the teachers.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Seems that way. 

Might be some concern about what’s being taught. Have several friends that have had to deal with teachers opinion of social issues and what is taught. Seems some teachers have agendas beyond basic class material.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> There are options to record if you are not the host. They are just not through Zoom.


Show your source.


painterswife said:


> I am just explaing


That doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. 




> painterswife said:





> *Zoom allows* recording of all sessions. A good thing. Parents can better understand what is being taught.





painterswife said:


> There are options to record if you are not the host. They are just *not through Zoom*.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> If I have to get a teacher’s permission to observe or otherwise be aware of my child’s classroom activities then they won’t be in the front of my child’s classroom any longer.


You seem to be operating under the assumption that you are the king of the school and every one that works there is your serf who must bow to your every whim.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, you do not, in fact, have the right to plop yourself down in my or any other classroom whenever you feel like it. You want to come in, you can make an appointment just like you would with any other professional. And, just like any other professional, I do not have to allow you into my office (which is essentially what my classroom is).


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Speaking of "recording", some don't even want parents watching:








Tennessee mom says parents asked to sign 'ridiculous' waiver they will not eavesdrop on kids' online lessons


A Tennessee school district is under fire for asking parents to sign a form agreeing not to eavesdrop on kids' virtual classes over concerns they could overhear confidential information.




www.foxnews.com





"A Tennessee school district is under fire for asking parents to sign a form agreeing not to eavesdrop on kids' virtual classes over concerns they could overhear confidential information.

After significant pushback, Rutherford County Schools is allowing parents to tune in with permission from the teacher but *they can't record the classes*."


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> You seem to be operating under the assumption that you are the king of the school and every one that works there is your serf who must bow to your every whim.


Pot, Kettle.........


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Sunlight is wonderful disinfectant. The shade is where fungus grows.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> You seem to be operating under the assumption that you are the king of the school and every one that works there is your serf who must bow to your every whim.
> 
> Contrary to what you seem to believe, you do not, in fact, have the right to plop yourself down in my or any other classroom whenever you feel like it. You want to come in, you can make an appointment just like you would with any other professional. And, just like any other professional, I do not have to allow you into my office (which is essentially what my classroom is).


Holding onto a weak position means you'll need to change the focus of my point, I get that.

Here is my point in simple words.
No one will ever make decisions about or for my children ever (emphasis is on the "ever") without MY permission.
A teacher is accountable and responsible to parents for every minute they are in possession of their children.
The fact that many parents are apathetic or less about that fact doesn't make it less of a fact.
When a public school employee becomes more about their title and their rights above those of the taxpayers that entrust their kids to them, they are no longer fulfilling their duties as intended.

A public school teacher without an open door policy is curious and alarming.
Thank you for again for reaffirming your attitude about parents and transparency, or should I say accountability, in the public classroom.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Holding onto a weak position means you'll need to change the focus of my point, I get that.
> 
> Here is my point in simple words.
> No one will ever make decisions about or for my children ever (emphasis is on the "ever") without MY permission.
> ...


Thank you for reaffirming your disgraceful attitude that teachers are less than every other professional. Would you barge into the fire station, hop on the truck and demand to observe during the shift? Would you hop into a police car and demand to be taken on a ride along? No, you’d make an appointment and think nothing of it. But, somehow, that’s too much for you to do if you want to visit a classroom.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

My attitude is my child comes before politics, money, or the "system".
Yes, I would schedule when necessary. I would not however allow you to ever prohibit my access to their lessons, activities or classroom if I determine it is necessary.
Once you believe you are beyond reproach from a concerned parent, you are no longer an asset to their children.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> Thank you for reaffirming your disgraceful attitude that teachers are less than every other professional. Would you barge into the fire station, hop on the truck and demand to observe during the shift? Would you hop into a police car and demand to be taken on a ride along? No, you’d make an appointment and think nothing of it. But, somehow, that’s too much for you to do if you want to visit a classroom.


The police and firemen seem to care little about being observed. They even have ride along film crews provide LIVE tv shows about their jobs while they do their jobs. Most police wear cameras the entire time while they are at work, allows problems to be reviewed. The police will even allow you to ride along with them in their office and at their job site. 

Yet teachers want to hide ? Seems quite a bit less professional than others.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> My attitude is my child comes before politics, money, or the "system".
> Yes, I would schedule when necessary. I would not however allow you to ever prohibit my access to their lessons, activities or classroom if I determine it is necessary.
> Once you believe you are beyond reproach from a concerned parent, you are no longer an asset to their children.


And I would not permit you access to my classroom if you are going to disrupt my students’ learning, cause a disturbance or otherwise be an ahole while you are there. If you are willing to come in, not bother the learning and follow the rules/procedures of the room, then I will allow you in. If not, you can make an appointment to speak with me before or after school. Those are my decisions to make as the teacher.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Sounds like you might not fit the criteria that a lot of parents these days need from the people they entrust their kids too.
That's ok. Time are changing but you are likely safe inside the system you protect.
Hopefully, the parents that need or even just want more for their kids will have opportunities outside of your reach.
Carry on.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Redlands Okie said:


> The police and firemen seem to care little about being observed. They even have ride along film crews provide LIVE tv shows about their jobs while they do their jobs. Most police wear cameras the entire time while they are at work, allows problems to be reviewed. The police will even allow you to ride along with them in their office and at their job site.
> 
> Yet teachers want to hide ? Seems quite a bit less professional than others.


I don't believe many of the police have any choice with someone recording their interactions. Whether you are an advocate for law enforcement or not, their actions have become more and more transparent.
I think the links posted of teachers abusing their position, and the examples of inept and unqualified staff are what is becoming more and more clear to those of us who have been told to just trust them and shut up.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Redlands Okie said:


> The police will even allow you to ride along with them in their office and at their job site.


By appointment. Seems you’re missing that little detail.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Sounds like you might not fit the criteria that a lot of parents these days need from the people they entrust their kids too.
> That's ok. Time are changing but you are likely safe inside the system you protect.
> Hopefully, the parents that need or even just want more for their kids will have opportunities outside of your reach.
> Carry on.


No, I don’t fit the criteria of doormat which is what you seem to want in your child’s teacher.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Depending on the level of importance, an appointment sounds reasonable.
That isn't what the discussion was about though.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> No, I don’t fit the criteria of doormat which is what you seem to want in your child’s teacher.


Nope. Wrong again.
As a public servant, you are accountable to the parents of the children they entrust you with.
Accommodating their concerns should be a priority, not an inconvenience, not a favor.
Their right.
It takes a certain type individual to bring out the best in kids and their education. 
The first quality is knowing that they come first.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

SLFarmMI said:


> Thank you for reaffirming your disgraceful attitude that teachers are less than every other professional. Would you barge into the fire station, hop on the truck and demand to observe during the shift? Would you hop into a police car and demand to be taken on a ride along? No, you’d make an appointment and think nothing of it. But, somehow, that’s too much for you to do if you want to visit a classroom.


That is a ridiculous comparison. The fire truck is not my responsibility nor do I have direct responsibility for it. The kid in the classroom does belong to me and I should have an interest in what he/she is being taught and be able to judge the competence of the person doing the teaching.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

There seems to be a molehill that you keep throwing dirt on; to the point you can't climb it and will die on it.
You cannot acknowledge that parents need to know that their kids are in good hands when they are not with them.
Just a simple yes, kids are the priority.
Have you never been taught that yourself?
You would be disarming a lot of angry parents if you started on a conversation with some agreement rather than your excuses and blame.
Your title, your authority, your rules, whatever, have nothing to do with maintaining a parent's confidence that you are doing right by their children.
The fact that you cannot simply agree with parents who choose to be active partners with their kids education is very telling about you.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> By appointment. Seems you’re missing that little detail.


Yes by appointment to ride along with a police officer. 

Meanwhile many police administrations insure the officers are being recorded while in the office (car) from multiple angles. They are recording their actions when out of the office. They are closely monitored. Seems we still have some problem officers that are slowly found and removed. But at least the police have realized they have problems that are no longer allowed to be hidden and overlooked. 

On the other hand we seem to have some problem teachers amongst the majority who do a fine job. Seems the whole teaching administration wants to hide the problems. Kind of sound familiar ?


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> There seems to be a molehill that you keep throwing dirt on; to the point you can't climb it and will die on it.
> You cannot acknowledge that parents need to know that their kids are in good hands when they are not with them.
> Just a simple yes, kids are the priority.
> Have you never been taught that yourself?
> ...


Once again, you are incorrect. Never once did I say that an involved parent is a bad thing. I wish more parents would be involved. However, being an involved parent does not mean you snap your fingers and the teacher jumps which is what you appear to want. You would be disarming a lot of angry teachers if you started on a conversation with some agreement and respect rather than your hostility and blame. BTW, all the students on my caseload are my priority, not just your one. The fact that you cannot treat the teacher who is working his or her butt off for all students, not just yours, with some simple courtesy and respect is very telling about you.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Redlands Okie said:


> On the other hand we seem to have some problem teachers amongst the majority who do a fine job. Seems the whole teaching administration wants to hide the problems. Kind of sound familiar ?


Familiar? Yes, it sounds like the “it is impossible to fire a teacher” myth that keeps making the rounds. And yet, two teachers in my building were fired just this year. Hmmm, maybe the myth isn’t reality.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> Once again, you are incorrect. Never once did I say that an involved parent is a bad thing. I wish more parents would be involved.


Good. Now you are on the right track. All of the excuses, the union talking points, the rhetoric can be left for a discussion that merits rhetoric.
Focusing on the kids first is always the best direction to take. You would instill more confidence in those who are suspicious of public officials who will not answer questions and who show an unwillingness to listen or take a parent's concerns seriously.
Parents don't want to hear why you cannot do your job as the first thing that leaves your mouth. They don't want you to tell them why any alternative outside of your classroom is no good.
They want to hear how you can make a better, more educated person out of their son or daughter and what needs to be done inside failing public schools to better prepare them for life after highschool.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Sounds like problems were found and handled. As it should be. Wonder how many more would be found with better supervision. 

Just to make sure there are no misunderstandings. I do think many teachers do their job. I suspect a few actually do their job well and go above and beyond what is required. But its a job, and they are dealing with what’s most precious in the world to the parents. Should not be surprised or upset that they are being monitored and questioned. They should expect it and encourage it.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The teachers in our family and circle are very good, well qualified and professional.
They by and large agree with the current state of public schools. They will admit there are bad teachers, teachers that should have been fired and admins, boards and unions that are more harm than good.
The difference can only begin once that is an accepted fact.
The status quo has to go.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

SLFarmMI said:


> Familiar? Yes, it sounds like the “it is impossible to fire a teacher” myth that keeps making the rounds. And yet, two teachers in my building were fired just this year. Hmmm, maybe the myth isn’t reality.



Would you mind telling us what they were fired for? I know here the school district does not have to renew a teacher's contract until the teacher has tenure. With enough complaints, they can be fired but in such cases they generally first transfer them to another school. If complaints continue, the teacher then usually finds another teaching job in another school district and simply moves. As long as the teacher stays in the same state, they are earning retirement. Some have moved several times but accumulated enough time to retire fairly young. It's sort of like the Catholic church shuffling around pedophile priests.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> Thank you for reaffirming your disgraceful attitude that teachers are less than every other professional. Would you barge into the fire station, hop on the truck and demand to observe during the shift? Would you hop into a police car and demand to be taken on a ride along? No, you’d make an appointment and think nothing of it. But, somehow, that’s too much for you to do if you want to visit a classroom.


Careful with those strawmen, SL. Strike one dramatically enough, and they sometimes rebound back with enough force to hit you back.

Is there a reason you left doctors off your analogy? Except in extreme circumstances (surgery, abuse, etc) a doctor who so indignantly refused to allow a parent to observe what they’re doing to someone’s child would be viewed with extreme suspicion- but you want to be allowed to root around in their children’s heads without oversight.



SLFarmMI said:


> I’m sure treating teachers like nothing more than babysitters and children like nothing more than products does absolutely thrill you.


That’s really not fair. 

The babysitting profession, by and large, has far too much professional integrity to take it upon themselves to politically indoctrinate other peoples’ children.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> You would be disarming a lot of angry teachers if you started on a conversation with some agreement and respect rather than your hostility and blame.


As would you, but I don't foresee you changing your pattern.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Would you hop into a police car and demand to be taken on a ride along?


No.
They would burn the police station to the ground and the media would call it a "peaceful protest".


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Hmmm, maybe *the myth isn’t reality*.


Your myths aren't real. 
No "maybe".


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Good. Now you are on the right track. All of the excuses, the union talking points, the rhetoric can be left for a discussion that merits rhetoric.
> Focusing on the kids first is always the best direction to take. You would instill more confidence in those who are suspicious of public officials who will not answer questions and who show an unwillingness to listen or take a parent's concerns seriously.
> Parents don't want to hear why you cannot do your job as the first thing that leaves your mouth. They don't want you to tell them why any alternative outside of your classroom is no good.
> They want to hear how you can make a better, more educated person out of their son or daughter and what needs to be done inside failing public schools to better prepare them for life after highschool.


First, on your best day you don’t have anywhere close to the knowledge and experience I have in education, teaching and child development so you can take your condescension and stuff it.

Second, it is obvious that you only want to hear things that reinforce your misguided belief that your “alternatives” are better than public schools. The research does not support your belief but you don’t want to hear that. You also don’t appear to hear any ideas from folks who are actually doing the job because they might challenge your preconceived notions.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nope, wrongo.
I am quite familiar with how public education works.
I'm also able to recognize when someone doesn't have a strong argument to support a failing system.
But we have already established that so that horse has been beat.
What you have struggled to defend so far are the failing failing urban and inner city schools, I would say your expertise is in apologetics rather than education, but don't take that as an insult. You just continue to avoid the public schools system's accountability.
I've avoided the topic of private schools; it is you who seem to keep referencing that chapter of the playbook.
I have asked you in this thread and in previous threads for your solutions, but so far you have provided zero, or none.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Careful with those strawmen, SL. Strike one dramatically enough, and they sometimes rebound back with enough force to hit you back.
> 
> Is there a reason you left doctors off your analogy? Except in extreme circumstances (surgery, abuse, etc) a doctor who so indignantly refused to allow a parent to observe what they’re doing to someone’s child would be viewed with extreme suspicion- but you want to be allowed to root around in their children’s heads without oversight.
> 
> ...


Oh, the old “teachers are indoctrinating your children” myth.

Following your doctor example, are you allowed to observe the doctor’s work with a child who is not yours? You seem to be forgetting that, in a classroom, your kid isn’t the only one there. Other children have things going on with them that you know nothing about. They have an absolute right to their privacy as well as the right to feel secure in their classroom environment and, if your presence impacts that, you do not need to be there. It is the teacher’s call, not yours.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> First, on your best day you don’t have anywhere close to the knowledge and experience I have in education, teaching and child development so you can take your condescension and stuff it.


I sure hope you aren't leading a debate class. 
Elitism and insults are a strong tell.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> Oh, the old “teachers are indoctrinating your children” myth.
> 
> Following your doctor example, are you allowed to observe the doctor’s work with a child who is not yours? You seem to be forgetting that, in a classroom, your kid isn’t the only one there. Other children have things going on with them that you know nothing about. They have an absolute right to their privacy as well as the right to feel secure in their classroom environment and, if your presence impacts that, you do not need to be there. It is the teacher’s call, not yours.


Seems like an interesting statement.
I wonder if 20 parents were polled, how many of them would object to their child's classroom being open for observation? Hmmm...
Teacher's vote wouldn't count of course.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Seems like an interesting statement.
> I wonder if 20 parents were polled, how many of them would object to their child's classroom being open for observation? Hmmm...
> Teacher's vote wouldn't count of course.


Well, I can think of several of the parents of my current students who would right off the top of my head. But, of course you don’t believe those children have the right to their privacy as long as you get your own way.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Sorry to keep correcting you. It isn't about the child's privacy. It is about a parent's right to know that their child's teacher is doing their job as expected. But you know that too.
BTW, there is no more right to their privacy ie cameras in school than there is mine when I stand outside the door buzzing to get in, walk down the hallway or stroll thru the cafeteria. Your conflating law with opinion.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SL keep in mind that while you may be really good at your job and really care about the kids in your class, there are many teachers that perhaps should not be teaching. The problem is that many teachers and programs are teaching students poorly and it is very apparent in every day life across this nation. Some teachers are teaching kids things that parents do not approve off. Does not matter if the teacher thinks its ok, its still a problem. You do not want to be told how to teach, parents also have a opinion and a greater right to be concerned about what is being taught. Add in the occasional teacher we see on the news quite often having inappropriate relationships with the kids, stealing, prostitution issues, drugs, etc and a person should not be surprised about parents concerns. 

I do realize it would be nice if more parents actually made a effort to be better parents, it would make teachers job easier. Teachers sign on to the job and are paid to deal with the problems. Many of the problems they should not have to deal with I realize. It’s still part of the job and the teachers can quit if need be or desired. 

The concerned parents have little choice often times about where their kids go to school. They have little choice on who teaches them. They seem to have little control of what’s being done to their kids when the kids in school. A teacher should not be surprised about the parents concern.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Just as a courtesy to those who follow these educational wonder threads, I've have made repeated posts requesting solutions from our educational oracle to simple questions, ie What should be done to prevent failing students, drop out rates and the dismal records of urban public schools.
So far just crickets.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Redlands Okie said:


> The concerned parents have little choice often times about where their kids go to school. They have little choice on who teaches them. They seem to have little control of what’s being done to their kids when the kids in school. A teacher should not be surprised about the parents concern.


Nor should they be made to feel as if they don't have the right to question a schools standards and practices.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> Oh, the old “teachers are indoctrinating your children” myth.
> 
> Following your doctor example, are you allowed to observe the doctor’s work with a child who is not yours? You seem to be forgetting that, in a classroom, your kid isn’t the only one there. Other children have things going on with them that you know nothing about. They have an absolute right to their privacy as well as the right to feel secure in their classroom environment and, if your presence impacts that, you do not need to be there. It is the teacher’s call, not yours.


Myth?

How many stories do we see about teachers stuffing pro-right information into the brains other people’s kids? It’s no longer just a conspiracy theory. The teaching profession is largely liberal, elitist, and unashamed of it. The public schools gave up their apolitical stance only shortly after mainstream journalism did.

And, don’t forget that we’re talking about parents observing classes via conference-IP technology. Lots of us use it every day for work. There is no reason that an individual parent couldn’t be restricted to only recording what is broadcast from your camera and microphone- that’s the one we don’t trust, after all.

If little Johnny’s parents want to do bonghits behind their little angle during class, you’d be the only one to see it. We just want to watch you... our employee.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

GTX63 said:


> Just as a courtesy to those who follow these educational wonder threads, I've have made repeated posts requesting solutions from our educational oracle to simple questions, ie What should be done to prevent failing students, drop out rates and the dismal records of urban public schools.
> So far just crickets.


It has been noticed. Its actually very sad too!


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

So far it goes something like this-
My child is new to the district and it is their first month in school.
I ask for and am granted permission from my son's teacher for a meeting.
My questions have to do with the schools graduation rate, drop out rate, curriculum, etc. What is the schools mission?
The only responses I receive are that private schools discriminate, bad teachers are a myth and you aren't smart enough to understand how the school system work. I've been fed right wing propaganda.
After a week I apply for and am granted permission to speak to the teacher again.
I ask the same questions. This time the answers are that private schools discriminate, bad teachers are a myth, and you aren't smart enough to understand how the shool system works. I've been fed right wing propaganda.
To save time, the third meeting goes the same.
So I go to the board meeting. They grant me 3 minutes to speak.
I ask my questions, raise my concerns and am asked why I haven't spoken to my son's teacher about all of this?
They'll look into the matter and may or may not get back with me.

That is this thread encapsulated.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> So far it goes something like this-
> My child is new to the district and it is their first month in school.
> I ask for and am granted permission from my son's teacher for a meeting.
> My questions have to do with the schools graduation rate, drop out rate, curriculum, etc. What is the schools mission?
> ...


Casting yourself as the poor, put upon victim I see.

You start by pontificating that public schools are terrible and that private schools are so much better. You are provided with the truth of the matter that, in fact, based on research, your statement is incorrect and that type of system (public vs private) is insignificant. The factors that are significant are posted. You don’t like that answer because it doesn’t fit with your preconceived notions. You reject any information coming from a teacher because she couldn’t possibly know about education and teaching. You then go on to declare that you should have the right to plop yourself in the classroom regardless of the rights or needs of any child in that classroom. You want what you want and every teacher and administrator should jump to do your bidding. That’s pretty much every conversation with you about education in a nutshell.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Casting yourself as the poor, put upon victim I see.
> 
> You start by pontificating that public schools are terrible and that private schools are so much better. You are provided with the truth of the matter that, in fact, based on research, your statement is incorrect and that type of system (public vs private) is insignificant. The factors that are significant are posted. You don’t like that answer because it doesn’t fit with your preconceived notions. You reject any information coming from a teacher because she couldn’t possibly know about education and teaching. You then go on to declare that you should have the right to plop yourself in the classroom regardless of the rights or needs of any child in that classroom. You want what you want and every teacher and administrator should jump to do your bidding. That’s pretty much every conversation with you about education in a nutshell.


You offer no solutions. Why not? You never answer questions, yet you demand others answer yours. You seem to care more about avoiding the truth and hurling insults than discussing possible fixes. That, is a fact. Teachers need to be held accountable for their actions. Liberals say the same thing about police. EXCEPT, we want teachers! We just want them to keep their political bias out of schools. Shouldn't be this hard should it?
We get accountability from private schools but public schools are off limits? Kids are supposed to keep their cameras on all the time while distance learning. Hows that privacy thing work in those situations?


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

JeffreyD said:


> You offer no solutions. Why not? You never answer questions, yet you demand others answer yours. You seem to care more about avoiding the truth and hurling insults than discussing possible fixes. That, is a fact. Teachers need to be held accountable for their actions. Liberals say the same thing about police. EXCEPT, we want teachers! We just want them to keep their political bias out of schools. Shouldn't be this hard should it?
> We get accountability from private schools but public schools are off limits? Kids are supposed to keep their cameras on all the time while distance learning. Hows that privacy thing work in those situations?


You are making the erroneous assumption that public school and public school teachers aren’t held accountable for every thing they do. You are incorrect. Every single year, we have a variety of things we have to report out on. Some of those things are things we have no control over such as attendance but we are still penalized if the numbers aren’t what the state thinks they should be. BTW, private schools don’t have to report any of this. Kids actually don’t have to keep their cameras on at all times — that’s an individual teacher’s decision.

Try again. Maybe some day you’ll post something that is true about education and not your overly dramatic ramblings.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> You are making the erroneous assumption that public school and public school teachers aren’t held accountable for every thing they do. You are incorrect. Every single year, we have a variety of things we have to report out on. Some of those things are things we have no control over such as attendance but we are still penalized if the numbers aren’t what the state thinks they should be. BTW, private schools don’t have to report any of this. Kids actually don’t have to keep their cameras on at all times — that’s an individual teacher’s decision.
> 
> Try again. Maybe some day you’ll post something that is true about education and not your overly dramatic ramblings.


How many teachers did they fire that brought young pupils as props to protests against Gov. Walker? Nevermind. You are just making the point that you keep trying to disprove, so post on......


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

If public education was working well you would not have to work so hard to defend it. I would need no defense at all. The results would speak for themselves.

We will soon have two classes, those with a good education (mostly private) and then those destined to suffer the results of our failing public education system. One is a growing class. The other is the productive class.


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> Would you barge into the fire station, hop on the truck and demand to observe during the shift? Would you hop into a police car and demand to be taken on a ride along? No...


You are correct... no, I would not. One minor clarification though... my children are not under the care, custody and control of fireman, policeman, mailman nor even the garbage man for 7 hours a day, 5 days a week, 9 months a year as they are with teachers.

As I've said before it seems as though it's all about control and power with you.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Speaking of "recording", some don't even want parents watching:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The phrase "go to hell" comes to mind.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> If public education was working well you would not have to work so hard to defend it. I would need no defense at all. The results would speak for themselves.
> 
> We will soon have two classes, those with a good education (mostly private) and then those destined to suffer the results of our failing public education system. One is a growing class. The other is the productive class.


If private education was so much better than public, then the research would show it. It doesn't. Private vs. Public -- the system does not make a difference. Socioeconomic factors do. Class sizes do. Access to resources does. And yet, none of the public school bashers who claim they want to discuss "solutions" seem to want to discuss those things.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> If private education was so much better than public, then the research would show it. It doesn't. Private vs. Public -- *the system does not make a difference.* Socioeconomic factors do. Class sizes do. Access to resources does. And yet, none of the public school bashers who claim they want to discuss "solutions" seem to want to discuss those things.


That seems to be a statement that would be difficult to explain in a rational fashion. I am certain that you are up to the challenge.....


----------



## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

If private schools weren't better in some tangible way to parents/students than public schools, I'm not sure why people would be wasting money sending their kids to them. I mean I personally could think of a lot more fun things to spend money on.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Hiro said:


> That seems to be a statement that would be difficult to explain in a rational fashion. I am certain that you are up to the challenge.....


What about that statement are you having difficulty understanding? There have been studies comparing private vs public schools. Socioeconomic factors make a difference in outcome. Class sizes make a difference in outcome. Access to resources makes a difference in outcome. Whether a school is private or public does not.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I had a guy working for me once who was married to a woman who slept with everyone in town. But as the old joke goes, it was a small town. Anyway, her husband found out, made a few calls, met with a few of these guys and then one afternoon, while she was at work, packed her bags and set them on the porch. She came home and the confrontation began. He gave her the names, the places, the times, on and on. His wife denied it all, said he was making it up, called all of the men liars.
He couldn't help but laugh and asked her "So Sarah, I guess all of these guys are lying and you are telling the truth?"
She looked him dead in the eyes and said "That's right."

SLFarmMI, I think the ref has rung the bell and counted you out.
We can believe you or we can trust our "lying eyes," lol.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> I had a guy working for me once who was married to a woman who slept with everyone in town. But as the old joke goes, it was a small town. Anyway, her husband found out, made a few calls, met with a few of these guys and then one afternoon, while she was at work, packed her bags and set them on the porch. She came home and the confrontation began. He gave her the names, the places, the times, on and on. His wife denied it all, said he was making it up, called all of the men liars.
> He couldn't help but laugh and asked her "So Sarah, I guess all of these guys are lying and you are telling the truth?"
> She looked him dead in the eyes and said "That's right."
> 
> ...


Right, we'll believe your "but I went to school and have a kid in school so I know about education" instead of someone who actually works every day in education and the peer-reviewed research studies. Yeah, that makes sense.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Hiro said:


> That seems to be a statement that would be difficult to explain in a rational fashion. I am certain that you are up to the challenge.....


I'm pretty sure at this point she won't even admit to the sun rising in the east without a court order.
Probably a privacy issue.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I have had plenty of folks work for me that didn't have a clue what they were doing.
They however, weren't responsible for children's well being, and I was able to fire them at will.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> Right, we'll believe your "but I went to school and have a kid in school so I know about education" instead of someone who actually works every day in education and the peer-reviewed research studies. Yeah, that makes sense.


Lets pretend Joe and Mary Lunchbox have a kid in school and don't know anything about education.
You would reflect poorly on the institution if you gave them the same answers you have provided here, lol.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Lets pretend Joe and Mary Lunchbox have a kid in school and don't know anything about education.
> You would reflect poorly on the institution if you gave them the same answers you have provided here, lol.


Yeah, presenting people with factual information is such a bad idea. I should just refer them to the latest conspiracy theory and/or flight of fancy I can find on the internet.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

You still haven't answered any questions.
Facts seem fleeting.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Why are urban schools in cities like Chicago failing?
Please don't deny it. Google fu says otherwise.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> You still haven't answered any questions.
> Facts seem fleeting.


What part of socioeconomic factors make a difference, access to resources makes a difference and class size makes a difference is eluding you? What part of the information about what the research shows is difficult for you?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

8 pages and we still haven't gotten an answer.
Tick tock.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> If private education was so much better than public, then the research would show it. *It doesn't*.


How many times have you said that?
How many times have you NOT *shown* anything to support your claims.



SLFarmMI said:


> What part of socioeconomic factors make a difference, access to resources makes a difference and class size makes a difference is eluding you? What part of the *information about what the research shows* is difficult for you?


What part of "*show *your source" confuses you?
You seem to think "show" means "repeat the claim".


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> How many times have you said that?
> How many times have you NOT shown anything to support your claims.


How many times have you been too lazy to go look it up?


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> 8 pages and we still haven't gotten an answer.
> Tick tock.


You've gotten an answer several times.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Bearfootfarm said:


> How many times have you said that?
> How many times have you NOT *shown* anything to support your claims.
> 
> 
> ...


Can you imagine how the job interview must have went?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> How many times have you been too lazy to go look it up?


It's not my job to chase down your rumors.
It's your claim to prove.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> SLFarmMI said:





> How many times have you been too lazy to go look it up?


Now you'll say it's not accurate.









Yes, Private Schools Beat Public Schools


School choice programs consistently produce similar or better results for much less money.




www.cato.org





*"Yes, Private Schools Beat Public Schools"*


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Her main point to this 8 page blurb, as best I can tell, is that she is too sophisticated and intelligent to bother educating the unwashed here, even though that is supposed to be her profession, I guess.
She assumes no one but her is or has ever worked in public education, and therefore we should swallow her claims by the spoonful.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Yeah, presenting people with factual information is such a bad idea. I should just refer them to the latest conspiracy theory and/or flight of fancy I can find on the internet.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

GTX63 said:


> Her main point to this 8 page blurb, as best I can tell, is that she is too sophisticated and intelligent to bother educating the unwashed here, even though that is supposed to be her profession, I guess.
> She assumes no one but her is or has ever worked in public education, and therefore we should swallow her claims by the spoonful.


By Jove, I think he's got it!!


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Remote learning even more remote as online education...
> Now you'll say it's not accurate.
> 
> 
> ...


That you think a commentary is equivalent to peer-reviewed research studies is just sad.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Her main point to this 8 page blurb, as best I can tell, is that she is too sophisticated and intelligent to bother educating the unwashed here, even though that is supposed to be her profession, I guess.
> She assumes no one but her is or has ever worked in public education, and therefore we should swallow her claims by the spoonful.


Or you could go look them up.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> You are making the erroneous assumption that public school and public school teachers aren’t held accountable for every thing they do. You are incorrect. Every single year, we have a variety of things we have to report out on. Some of those things are things we have no control over such as attendance but we are still penalized if the numbers aren’t what the state thinks they should be. BTW, private schools don’t have to report any of this. Kids actually don’t have to keep their cameras on at all times — that’s an individual teacher’s decision.
> 
> Try again. Maybe some day you’ll post something that is true about education and not your overly dramatic ramblings.


Still cant answer questions? All you have are insults, no solutions...Got it...
And in my daughters old district they absolutely have to leave them on. If you were truly interested, a google search might enlighten you. Naw, your to much of an expert to be bothered by facts.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I guess I don't understand why you would rather go 160 posts dribbling out non speak rather than just state your facts and get back to the ID channel.

You would rather continue to look foolish to anyone with a general knowledge of our school system.
Stunning.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

JeffreyD said:


> Still cant answer questions? All you have are insults, no solutions...Got it...
> And in My daughters old district they absolutely have to leave them on. If you were truly interested, a google search might enlighten you. Naw, your to much of an expert to be bothered by facts.


I'm working in the office tonight and I looked up at the post count and I thought, "My goodness, this is becoming awkward."


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> I guess I don't understand why you would rather go 160 posts dribbling out non speak rather than just state your facts and get back to the ID channel.
> 
> You would rather continue to look foolish to anyone with a general knowledge of our school system.
> Stunning.


I've stated the facts several times. You just don't like them so you choose to ignore them.

Socioeconomic factors make a difference in student outcome. Access to resources make a difference in student outcomes. Class sizes make a difference in student outcomes.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Right, we'll believe your "but I went to school and have a kid in school so I know about education" instead of someone who actually works every day in education and the peer-reviewed research studies. Yeah, that makes sense.


It does when those "educators" are as disconnected with reality as you are. It's very scary to know that your with young impressionable children.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> I've stated the facts several times. You just don't like them so you choose to ignore them.
> 
> Socioeconomic factors make a difference in student outcome. Access to resources make a difference in student outcomes. Class sizes make a difference in student outcomes.


Is that why so many kids in Chicago inner city schools are not graduating. And why the majority cannot read at an acceptable level that do graduate?


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

JeffreyD said:


> It does when those "educators" are as disconnected with reality as you are. It's very scary to know that your with young impressionable children.


Oh look, you can't refute the research so you go with insults. Color me surprised.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Here, I've posted this for you three times. I'll ask again for you to respond to why and how this is happening.
Trapped In Chicago Schools


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> Oh look, you can't refute the research so you go with insults. Color me surprised.


Are you quoting me from an earlier post?


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> Oh, the old “teachers are indoctrinating your children” myth.
> 
> Following your doctor example, are you allowed to observe the doctor’s work with a child who is not yours? You seem to be forgetting that, in a classroom, your kid isn’t the only one there. Other children have things going on with them that you know nothing about. They have an absolute right to their privacy as well as the right to feel secure in their classroom environment and, if your presence impacts that, you do not need to be there. It is the teacher’s call, not yours.



The law says no discrimination and thats as it should be I personally think. But people can have a opinion as long as they keep it to themselves, or at least they could in the past. But we are past the point of live and let live. We are well into the process of children being taught that a variety of things are ok, regardless of mom and dads social or religious views. Regardless of the parents values, school systems are indoctrinating children in a variety of ways. Required to by law actually depending on the state. One quick sample. 


Winning the Right to Marry: Historic Parallels
Understanding Gender Identity
Discussing Same-Sex Marriage with Students






__





Social Studies







safeschoolsproject.org





—————————

As long as the kids are in a PUBLIC school funded by the PUBLIC there should be a camera in the corner of every classroom to allow the parents of the kids in that class to keep a eye on things. With todays technology it’s simple. 
Whatever is going on with the kids having problems is obviously happening in front of the other kids so why is it ok for the kids to be exposed but not ok to allow the parents to see what their kids are dealing with.


----------



## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

SLFarmMI said:


> I've stated the facts several times. You just don't like them so you choose to ignore them.
> 
> Socioeconomic factors make a difference in student outcome. Access to resources make a difference in student outcomes. Class sizes make a difference in student outcomes.


Both of which private schools sort of take care of in one way or another. Why wouldn't private schools be better if those are your standards for what causes public schools to fail? 

Perhaps the public school system needs to be revamped if this is a continuing problem, as often as it is repeated. Or we can just keep doing what we're doing and hope for the best, which seems to be the only solution I've seen offered here. 

I'm not a "real" teacher, but I did spend a decade and a half teaching my own kids after public schools in several states failed them. I know, you know, the teachers in my family know, we _all_ know, that parental involvement is the real secret to success. Poor kids can do well if their parents are involved. Kids in schools with minimal resources can do well if their parents are involved. Kids in large classrooms can do well if their parents are involved. The reason private and charter schools tend to be better isn't because of cherry picking, or socioeconomic status, or class size, it's because parents who care enough to get a better education for their children tend to be interested, active, and encouraging in their education. But somehow we have a public school system that minimizes the importance of parents, and allows involvement only to the extent that they determine. 

The system is broken.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Redlands Okie said:


> —————————
> 
> As long as the kids are in a PUBLIC school funded by the PUBLIC there should be a camera in the corner of every classroom to allow the parents of the kids in that class to keep a eye on things. With todays technology it’s simple.
> Whatever is going on with the kids having problems is obviously happening in front of the other kids so why is it ok for the kids to be exposed but not ok to allow the parents to see what their kids are dealing with.


We still have two kids in college. Just to note, every nook and cranny in their residence halls are monitored 24/7
If you want to see what is going on from the 1st floor to the 6th floor of my son's dorm, just stand in the lobby at the deck and you can see it all in full HD, including the janitor picking his nose in the elevator between floors.
Yep, classrooms are the same.
They signed no waiver, were not asked for their ok.
It just is.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarm

I may agree or disagree with some postings. It seems at times some posters gang up on others on a variety of things, but at least we can have opinions and express them, and most posters seem to go on with life. Even if we do not agree with each other. Once again I will say it seems your very knowledgeable about your career. Your entitled to your opinions as we all are. One problem is not every one sees and deals with what you have to everyday. Personally for me, thank goodness.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Is that why so many kids in Chicago inner city schools are not graduating. And why the majority cannot read at an acceptable level that do graduate?


Those are very important factors and, yes, they have a huge impact on progress. It's hard to make school a priority when you are struggling to survive. Look up Mazlow's Hierarchy of Needs and find out where a large proportion of children in inner city Chicago are living as it relates to that pyramid. Compare that to where children in one of the wealthy suburbs, Highland Park for example, are living. Poverty, drugs, gangs, etc. are all important factors. 

Look at class sizes in inner city Chicago vs Highland Park. I'll help you out here. Chicago is about twice the class size as Highland Park. Research shows that class size has an impact. Students in smaller classes can get more one on one time with the teacher. 

Look at the resources the kids in Chicago have as compared to the resources the kids in Highland Park have. All those things have an impact. 

Unfortunately, as a society, we don't want to fix those issues. We don't even want to talk about them. We want to just blame the teachers and demand vouchers.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Those are very important factors and, yes, they have a huge impact on progress. It's hard to make school a priority when you are struggling to survive. Look up Mazlow's Hierarchy of Needs and find out where a large proportion of children in inner city Chicago are living as it relates to that pyramid. Compare that to where children in one of the wealthy suburbs, Highland Park for example, are living. Poverty, drugs, gangs, etc. are all important factors.
> 
> Look at class sizes in inner city Chicago vs Highland Park. I'll help you out here. Chicago is about twice the class size as Highland Park. Research shows that class size has an impact. Students in smaller classes can get more one on one time with the teacher.
> 
> ...


We tried your way for a century. If it worked, why is there an issue? Clearly it hasnt. We cant keep throwing money down a rabbit hole as we are right now. Other countries spend much less and have far superior results. Why is that? Vouchers will allow for a level playing field, which your against. Why do you want to make poor kids suffer so much? Vouchers would help with that. Insults are your go to, you just cant stop can you. The anger and hatred you espoused is truly astonishing. Do teachers have to have mental evaluations? It's clear that they need to be if there not!


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

It would seem online eduction would eliminate a lot of the cost of schools, travel and safety issues of children getting to and from school.

If what we are doing now is not working and there seems to be no alternative feasible alternative we may just need to write off the eduction of those in slum areas filled with gangs. Let them solve their social issues or do with out. 

(Bet that raises some issues also)


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> That you think a commentary is equivalent to *peer-reviewed* research studies is just sad.


Right on cue:



Bearfootfarm said:


> Now you'll say it's not accurate.


That's exactly why we all asked to see YOUR sources.
SSDD

("Peer reviewed" means your buddies hit the "like" button.) 

This is my stop. I've run around this circle before.


----------



## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

Redlands Okie said:


> It would seem online eduction would eliminate a lot of the cost of schools, travel and safety issues of children getting to and from school.


I would add online education may also eliminate some of the bullying that occurs in schools for those that are not naturally good athletes, good readers and/or part of the beautiful people.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> What about that statement are you having difficulty understanding? There have been studies comparing private vs public schools. Socioeconomic factors make a difference in outcome. Class sizes make a difference in outcome. Access to resources makes a difference in outcome. Whether a school is private or public does not.


I went through a number of studies comparing private and public achievement. All of the studies that went as far as saying there was no real difference in achievement offered all kinds of exclusions, (socioeconomic, class size, etc, etc) to be able to say there is no proof private is better. 

You have died on the hill needlessly. No one here is blaming the teacher. We simply recognize that government does everything poorly. We would like to see the government step back and not run education. 

There is a reason those in DC choose Sidwell or Georgetown Day.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Peer reviewed means those with a vested interest in government ran public education agreed that public education is working just fine.

It also means to tell all us non-peers to sit down and shut up. We will give you what we want to give you.

From BFF's link - School choice programs consistently produce similar or better results for much less money.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

*Analysis: Charter Schools Yield 53% Greater Return on Investment Than Traditional Public Schools*








Analysis: Charter Schools Yield 53% Greater Return on Investment Than Traditional Public Schools


Policymakers should examine why charter schools, despite receiving less funding, yield greater academic achievement than traditional schools.



www.cato.org





*Regulations Are Keeping the Best Private Schools out of School Voucher Programs*








Regulations Are Keeping the Best Private Schools out of School Voucher Programs


Higher‐quality private schools are less likely to participate in two of the most highly regulated voucher programs in the U.S., the Milwaukee Parental Choice Program and the Ohio Educational Choice Scholarship Program.



www.cato.org


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> *Analysis: Charter Schools Yield 53% Greater Return on Investment Than Traditional Public Schools*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1. You might want to take a look at some actual data. Michigan regularly puts out an education report. (Your state probably does too.) I read them. Taking Detroit for example (simply for purposes of scale -- they have a lot of schools) -- how many charter schools (run by both for-profit and non-profit companies) outperformed the traditional public schools? One.


2. Your second article is complaining that private schools aren't getting public money because they don't want to:
a) stop cherry-picking students (If I only pick the A students, the highly motivated and ones with super parent support and every advantage, did my teaching really hit a home run with them or did I start on 3rd base?)
b) have a bachelors degree (which is the bare minimum standard in my opinion)
c) participate in state testing which everyone (not educators) touts as the tool for "accountability".


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Oh look, you *can't* *refute the research so you go with insults.* Color me surprised.


Pot, Kettle.......SSDD


----------



## random (Jul 23, 2020)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Why do you always assume and imply others don't understand simply because they don't agree with you?
> People know what is (and isn't) being taught.


When things went online last year, my wife found many of her friends being quite surprised at what was being taught. Many of them vowed their kids would not go back to public schools as a result. It amazed me how out of touch so many parents were.



HDRider said:


> Many school districts are asking parents to sign an agreement to not watch, or record online classes


The moment someone doesn't want me to watch what they're doing with my child is the moment they don't get to be in charge of my child.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

random said:


> When things went online last year, my wife found many of her friends being quite surprised at what was being taught. Many of them vowed their kids would not go back to public schools as a result. It amazed me how out of touch so many parents were.
> 
> 
> 
> The moment someone doesn't want me to watch what they're doing with my child is the moment they don't get to be in charge of my child.


What specifically surprised her?


----------



## random (Jul 23, 2020)

HDRider said:


> What specifically surprised her?


Given that (a) it was several of her friends and (b) the details were not relayed to me, I can't answer your question. My point was that these parents were not really monitoring what their children were being taught (I can't understand why) and when they had a chance to actually see the details, that is, what was actually being expressed in the classroom, they were quite unhappy. Note that this particular group was comprised of people on all sides of the political spectrum, and that their specific objections differed (that much WAS relayed to me). 

As for the claim about socioeconomic status making a difference, I'm curious how much data there is about inner-city poor children attending private schools in order to provide a direct comparison that eliminates that variable?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

random said:


> I'm curious how much data there is about inner-city poor children attending private schools in order to provide a direct comparison that eliminates that variable?


Students who attend a New York City charter instead of a traditional public school do much better on math tests 


New York City charter schools post substantially higher test scores, on average, than do the city’s traditional public schools. 









New York City's Charter Schools: What the Research Shows | Manhattan Institute


This report evaluates the current state of research on New York City charter schools. Overall, their effect on student performance is unambiguously positive. But the research is more dated and limited in scope than proponents and critics of charters appreciate.




www.manhattan-institute.org


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> Right, we'll believe your "but I went to school and have a kid in school so I know about education" instead of someone who actually works every day in education and the peer-reviewed research studies. Yeah, that makes sense.


Word of the day:

self-ag·gran·dize·ment
/ˈˌself əˈɡranˌdīzmənt/

_noun_
noun: *self-aggrandisement*

the action or process of promoting oneself as being powerful or important.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Temporary Zoom outage upends remote learning, court proceedings and more


The video conferencing software Zoom experienced widespread outages on Monday.




abcnews.go.com




*Temporary Zoom outage upends remote learning, court proceedings and more*

"The video conferencing software Zoom experienced widespread outages Monday morning, upending digital schooling, remote court proceedings and more virtual operations across the country.

By 12:37 p.m. ET the company confirmed on its live service status website that the issue had been resolved and users should be able to join meetings and webinars as usual.


"We have received reports of users being unable to start and join Zoom Meetings and Webinars. We are currently investigating and will provide updates as we have them," Zoom told ABC News in a statement earlier Monday. "We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience." "


----------

