# Honey Shares?



## cmharris6002 (Jan 27, 2006)

We have wanted to get into beekeeping for a long time but didn't know how to get started. Recently we met a beekeeper who has had bees his whole life and he has become our beekeeping mentor. He brought over a few hives last month and set them up in our orchard. The original plan was that he would be tending the bees with us until we knew what to do then we would take over.

He stopped by today and proposed that, if we weren't concerned with _owning_ our own hives, we come up with some kind of a share program. He would retain ownership of the hives and incur all of the expenses and we would market the honey. He said that he would provide us with bee suits and we could still be actively involved with working the hives. Apparently, this plan involves moving a lot more hives to our property.

Are you familiar with how something like this would work financially for both parties? How much would we pay him for the honey? Anyone use a contract? Any suggestions? Thanks!


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

You should be getting some of the honey free for doing the work, we use to let a beekeeper keep his bees at our farm, and he would give us some of the honey for alllowing him to do this. We did not do anything else either, just landlords to the bees. >Thanks Marc


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## no1cowboy (May 2, 2004)

I agree, if he is putting hives on your land and then your working the hives, and selling the honey too! you should be getting paid!


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## cmharris6002 (Jan 27, 2006)

He expects us to get paid. I guess the hard part is figuring out how much. He will do as much work in the hives as it takes, we would be working and learning alongside him. If he processes the honey and we package and label what kind of split would be fair for the final product, 50/50? I would also want honey (and beeswax) for my family, soap and lotion, candles...


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## rainesridgefarm (Dec 1, 2002)

I have all kinds of people wanting me to put hives on their land. I give them a few jars but the rent is the beekeepers choice not the landlord, or I take them somewhere else. 
Is he training you on beekeeping for free or is he charging you for knowledge he is sharing? The investment in hives and bees is not cheap so I think if you got 10% of the honey for marketing it that is a great deal for you. 

Who extracts, requeens, supers, pulls honey, treats?????? These are all time and equipment cost factors you need to consider,


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I just wouldn't do it. For under $500 you could own two hives and be your own beekeeper. Then find the guys in your area, on this forum, or on Beesource and let the learning commence.

You get started by getting started. You'll make some mistakes. You'll learn from them. You can be a mediocre beekeeper very quickly. To be a great beekeeper will take decades. Start now. Throw your hat over the fence and go after it.


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## cmharris6002 (Jan 27, 2006)

For the training I gave him a 2 for 1 deal on a couple of goat kids. He originally said we could keep half of the honey from the hives at our place and I was very happy with that. His issue is that he likes to produce honey and tend bees but he has no interest in marketing at all. I think a lot of his honey from previous harvests has gone to waste. 

I wouldn't do it for 10%. It would not be worth my time to make $10 for every $90 I made selling for him!!! That would be a favor not a business deal IMO. I have a farm store and a successful farmers market booth, plus if I am packaging, making value added products and creamed honey...

I think I just need to get my own hives and stick with plan A


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Half of the honey sales is going to be market. If you have a farm store and booth already set up, you're an asset to HIM and not the other way around. Honey never goes to waste, but if you can't move the product then it's just bottles sitting on a shelf.

Get your own hives and don't worry about this guy's "training". There are so many beekeepers out there who LOVE to talk about bees. You'll find a wealth of education just out there waiting to be picked up.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

A bee keeping friend on mine has worked out a deal with a local produce market. He sells them honey at $1.75 a pound, in the containers they want most, 1 pound, 5 pounds and such. They in turn sell it for what the market will bear, $4.50 a pound last time I stoped in last fall. They buy a cople thousand pounds a year mostly in 1 pound jars with his label on them. He doesn't have hives there though.

If your bee keeper doesn't like the marketing then some thing like that may work out for you. sounds as if that is what he is offering jst the money slipt is the problem.

You will have to work out your own idea what you will pay for capping wax for the lotions and stuff. I charge $5.00 a pound for mine and usally sell out with in hours of putting it on the market.


 Al


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## cmharris6002 (Jan 27, 2006)

You are right either wholesale pricing or, if he wants to incur the time and expense of packaging, I could sell it on consignment. Either way it solves the problem of being business partners. 

I pay $3.25/lb for beeswax from my current supplier so he would have to meet or beat that price


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## no1cowboy (May 2, 2004)

> I think a lot of his honey from previous harvests has gone to waste.


As long as honey is kept from collecting moisture, it will not go bad, or to waste


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Sorry, I've been offline for a while.
When we had a bee keeper put his hives on our place, our deal was for 10% of his harvest from the 10 hives he put out back. He was to do all the work and have all the expense of the hives and bees, processing and packaging. The first year was great, then it got to the point where we had to ASK him for our share. Two years ago we asked him to remove the hives as we know we were being cheated out of our share and decided to get our own hives and equipment. He STILL has one live hive here and has even been here and didn't take it! Grrr.
Anyway, to your situation... Sounds to me like your original deal was a 2-for-1 deal for training and half the honey? That sounds very fair. Just take YOUR honey and package and market it. He can do what he wants with the other half, right? Or, if you need more honey, meaning his share, buy it from him at wholesale ($1.75/pound was suggested) and slap your label on it. That would be the cleanest solution.
OR, like most of us here, dive in!! The honey's sweet. 
-Catherine


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## rainesridgefarm (Dec 1, 2002)

10% of his harvest is his profit. And you wanted all of it. I can see why he stopped paying you. I hope none of my landlords every meet you all I would be out of business.


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## cmharris6002 (Jan 27, 2006)

WHAT??? He never stopped paying me. I never asked him for any money either. As I posted above,


> For the training I gave him a 2 for 1 deal on a couple of goat kids. He originally said we could keep half of the honey from the hives at our place and I was very happy with that.


A few weeks later he approached me about bringing in more hives and having me do the marketing of the honey and making/marketing the honey based value added products like creamed honey. I was wondering if any other bee keepers had a good working situation like this that I could use as a model to set up a business agreement.

I got many excellent replies. Thanks to all!!!

ETA an example; I'm sure if I dropped off a few 5 gallon buckets of goat milk for you to bottle and turn to cheese in order to sell you would want more than 10% of the total sales of the final product(s)  Now if he wants to do the work I am happy to put his honey in my farm store on commission for 10%... Remember, bulk raw product has far less value then pre-packaged and value added products. If I sold my goat milk in bulk I'd be lucky to get $1/gallon. Selling it bottled from the farm I get $8/gallon, selling it as cheese I get $16/gallon, selling as soap I get way more...


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## beerancher (Dec 30, 2008)

i think a better arrangement is to read and study online forums for a year then get a couple of hives and go from there any time there is 2 people involved someone is going to get hurt either intentional or unintentionally. I have mentored several people they buy there own equipment and bees i give them advise and help when needed for no charge this works out the best for me


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

rainesridgefarm said:


> 10% of his harvest is his profit. And you wanted all of it. I can see why he stopped paying you. I hope none of my landlords every meet you all I would be out of business.


Actually, I think this comment was meant for me. Let me explain that this was what our bee guy OFFERED US. We had no idea what his policy was and this is what he offered. I didn't state that I wanted all of his profit as that's not my way of doing business. At this time I had no idea what 'profit' you could make off of bees. He does this as his business so I assumed that he knew what would be a fair share. Now that I am a hobby bee keeper, and still buying equipment, I realize that this is a hobby and nothing that I want to get into as big as he is. I also realize that the longer I'm in it, the better I'll get, hopefully, and the more profit I'll see, although I'm mainly in this for the experience and having honey to suppliment our natural foods we grow here on the farm.

-Catherine


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## rainesridgefarm (Dec 1, 2002)

I look at my cost of producing honey and look at a average yard as producing 3000lbs and if a landlord needed from me 10% that is 300lbs x $4 lb is $1200 worth of honey. Maybe he does not produce that much but just my thoughts on what is fair in my world. Sorry if I came across as caustic but this is my living and when I see stuff like this is makes me very nervous.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

So, Rainesridgefarm, just what compensation do you give your landlords? Do they allow you access to their property and give you a piece of their land to use just for the pleasure of having bees polinating their plants? I have enough flys and other bugs to polinate my plants but wanted the bees for the honey they produce. I know now that they are a lot of work and not that much profit, but at least I now get some honey. -Catherine


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## rainesridgefarm (Dec 1, 2002)

Depending on the yard they get about 2 gallons. All my hives are placed so there is no production land loss for the farmer. Most of the farms I am on are large organic or dairy so they understand fulltime farming. The honey is not even a second thought for them if they get some fine but they want the bees there because everything does better with them.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Thanks for your input. I wish you the best with your honey and bees and I'll keep this in mind if I ever decide to get into it more than I already am. Right now I'm still trying to figure out how to get my tenant bee man to remove his hives! We've asked him to remove him each of the last two years. He came out this weekend and I thought he was going to take his two hives (one of which made it through the winter, though weak). Instead he told me that he brought a new package as he'd already been out and knew the one hive didn't make it!! As we were going to a memorial for my departed MIL, I didn't have the energy to get blunt with him, so I guess we're stuck with him again this year. When we were just about done with the memorial, we noticed he'd left the gate ajar and the cows were out. Sigh...
-Catherine


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Leaving the gate open and the cows getting out would just frost me. first Thing I'd do is padlock the gate shut so he can not come and go as he wishes with out asking me to open the gate. Once he was forced to talk to me I would tell him in no uncertin terms I wanted his bees gone. No reason the hives can not bee closed up at night then moved or moved the next morning.
Just because there are bees in the hive doewsn't mean they can not be moved.

I would point out all the reasons he is not a diserable person to have around. 
YUP the left open gate would be the straw.

 Al


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