# Government war on opioid s



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Some here know I broke my neck at work in 2006. Because it's workerscomp it's been a nightmare. So today I drove the 110 miles to my pain doc. (I had been going every other month to be able to afford the gas. ) NOW because of our government I have to go in 4 weeks. Precriptions are all no refills. That's just for February. Then I have to go every WEEK! So that antt gona fly. Just cant afford too. My budget is $20 for gas a month. Other problem is workerscomp that pays for prescriptions takes up to 10 days to approve the script. This is a nightmare.
So my choices :dont go dont have drugs it will take about 3 days for the pain to get to bedridden levels. Apply for home health care from Medicaid. Go to a drug clinic and get soboxin, hear it helps with pain and the government sells it. Buy drugs on the street. Shoot myself. God love the USA and the war on drugs. It will make me a street drug user. Sucks. Im not upset because I'm addicted to the pain meds Im not been cut off too many times since 2006. Its quality of life I loose by being able to have the drugs that work. Only took 10 years tofind the right one. So if you all are heading to your pain doc dont be surprised at the change.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Do you have a worker's comp attorney? Most states (I know NY does) will reimburse you for mileage to and from the pain clinic.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Ya have lawyer. Gave him a call. Wv stopped giving milage when oboma care started. Think our government needs to think about the people a bit more. If i was a street drug addict i could get free soboxin. Daughter said You should they sell for $35 a strip.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Forcast said:


> Ya have lawyer. Gave him a call. Wv stopped giving milage when oboma care started. Think our government needs to think about the people a bit more. If i was a street drug addict i could get free soboxin. Daughter said You should they sell for $35 a strip.



ACA has absolutely nothing to do with worker's compensation, nada. Totally different insurance and rules. Fire your lawyer and hire a new one that actually knows what he or she is talking about.

ETA: This post is short and rather terse, I apologize. Please call your state's workers compensation board (not your attorney) and tell them how far you have to travel for a covered medication and that you be reimbursed for mileage. If they balk, tell them you're going to file a State Insurance Department Complaint, and I'll walk you through the process.


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

My son is on disability and gets medicaid.they pay mileage to his appointments. Thankfully as he sees several specialists that are all over an hour away and therapy once a week 40 minutes away. SC didn't expand Medicaid under ACA.


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Hugs btw. I'm sorry you have to go through this, with everything you've already been through.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

dmm1976 said:


> My son is on disability and gets medicaid.they pay mileage to his appointments. Thankfully as he sees several specialists that are all over an hour away and therapy once a week 40 minutes away. SC didn't expand Medicaid under ACA.


Has anyone told you that your son may be able to draw SS benefits under a parent's number? If he's not already. I believe (check this) that he would be eligible for medicare after the waiting period as well.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

That depends on the disability but worth checking! 2 year wait for Medicare if applicable from date of disability. Plus 6 month wait period as I understand it. Never have figured out why for either. Good luck!


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Forcast said:


> Some here know I broke my neck at work in 2006. Because it's workerscomp it's been a nightmare. So today I drove the 110 miles to my pain doc. (I had been going every other month to be able to afford the gas. ) NOW because of our government I have to go in 4 weeks. Precriptions are all no refills. That's just for February. Then I have to go every WEEK! So that antt gona fly. Just cant afford too. My budget is $20 for gas a month. Other problem is workerscomp that pays for prescriptions takes up to 10 days to approve the script. This is a nightmare.
> So my choices :dont go dont have drugs it will take about 3 days for the pain to get to bedridden levels. Apply for home health care from Medicaid. Go to a drug clinic and get soboxin, hear it helps with pain and the government sells it. Buy drugs on the street. Shoot myself. God love the USA and the war on drugs. It will make me a street drug user. Sucks. Im not upset because I'm addicted to the pain meds Im not been cut off too many times since 2006. Its quality of life I loose by being able to have the drugs that work. Only took 10 years tofind the right one. So if you all are heading to your pain doc dont be surprised at the change.


I know it's a rough spot to be in, but I encourage you to explore all the alternatives to the narcotics.
You've probably heard it before but after a few weeks pain medication loses its effectiveness. That's NOT what your brain is telling you but its what the body is telling you.


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## HeavyHauler (Dec 21, 2017)

Look into kratom. It's a great plant. It can help reduce your pain and not get you high or anything.

I use it daily for my pain, instead of my prescribed opiates.

It's completely legal up here in Canada and in most/some states.

Look for a red strain, they're the best I have found for pain relief. White strains give you more energy and greens are like half and half.

Kratom is related to the coffee plant and isn't an opiate, but runs off of the opiate receptors.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask!


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

dmm1976 said:


> Hugs btw. I'm sorry you have to go through this, with everything you've already been through.


Thanks Hun ya be a hard year. But I'll get my feet back under my butt soon.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> Has anyone told you that your son may be able to draw SS benefits under a parent's number? If he's not already. I believe (check this) that he would be eligible for medicare after the waiting period as well.


I was told anything to-do with the worker comp claim( whatever was injured) will not be covered by medicare or medicaid at least not in wv.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

HeavyHauler said:


> Look into kratom. It's a great plant. It can help reduce your pain and not get you high or anything.
> 
> I use it daily for my pain, instead of my prescribed opiates.
> 
> ...


I just was reading about it. At least someone that has the powder and capsules for sale. It was expensive.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> ACA has absolutely nothing to do with worker's compensation, nada. Totally different insurance and rules. Fire your lawyer and hire a new one that actually knows what he or she is talking about.
> 
> ETA: This post is short and rather terse, I apologize. Please call your state's workers compensation board (not your attorney) and tell them how far you have to travel for a covered medication and that you be reimbursed for mileage. If they balk, tell them you're going to file a State Insurance Department Complaint, and I'll walk you through the process.


Yes I know workers comp doesn't have mileage. I was thinking Medicaid use too have milage here in wv. But it stopped with the ACAct.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

@Forcast just a note about your mileage.
It IS a law.............

http://www.wvinsurance.gov/Portals/0/pdf/wc/Mileage_reimbursement_notice_2016-rev.pdf


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

farmrbrown said:


> @Forcast just a note about your mileage.
> It IS a law.............
> 
> http://www.wvinsurance.gov/Portals/0/pdf/wc/Mileage_reimbursement_notice_2016-rev.pdf


Thanks I make some calls. Problem I see is I live in WestVa. Have Maryland workers comp. As in they pay for my docs visits and some medications.I was working in Maryland for a maryland company when i was hurt. I have Hardford as workers comp insurance and they are hard about getting treatments surgerys steroid shots trigger point shots ect. My case is still open but I dont get disability payments anymore. When that stopped I went on ss disability.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Ahhh, that would explain some complications about it.


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## tlrnnp67 (Nov 5, 2006)

Just wanted to say that I am sorry you are going through this. Typical heavy-handed government intervention to OD's is going to kill people who are in real need of pain relief.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Forcast said:


> I was told anything to-do with the worker comp claim( whatever was injured) will not be covered by medicare or medicaid at least not in wv.


Nothing that is work related can be paid under medicare or medicaid, that post was in regard to dmm1976's son.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Forcast said:


> Thanks I make some calls. Problem I see is I live in WestVa. Have Maryland workers comp. As in they pay for my docs visits and some medications.I was working in Maryland for a maryland company when i was hurt. I have Hardford as workers comp insurance and they are hard about getting treatments surgerys steroid shots trigger point shots ect. My case is still open but I dont get disability payments anymore. When that stopped I went on ss disability.


I've found that Maryland does reimburse for mileage, and it doesn't matter if you no live in another state. Unless you settled your worker's compensation claim, and if you haven't stopped treatment it's still open, you are eligible for reimbursement to and from the pain clinic. http://www.wcc.state.md.us/PDF/Rates/MDWCC_mileage.pdf http://www.wcc.state.md.us/Adjud_Claims/Comp_Rates.html

Write down the time of the call, the person's name (make them spell it out for you) and their title- don't let them blow you off, if they hesitate, say "Are you refusing to give me this information?" After that do this: tell him or her that the cost of traveling to the pain clinic for the needed medication for your documented and active worker's compensation claim is an undue burden and you must be reimbursed for it's cost. If the claim rep still says it can't be done ask for his or her supervisor, if they say that they don't have a supervisor, say, I need to speak to the person that oversees you (they like to play games with title names), get his or her name, title, and telephone number. If you still don't get anywhere state this: I am going to file a complaint Maryland Worker's Compensation Commission. You may also be able to file a Maryland Insurance Department Complaint, and I'd try that as well, everything is online here: http://insurance.maryland.gov/Consumer/pages/FileAComplaint.aspx

What I've found indicates you're due reimbursement for mileage, now it's time to be a PITA to get what is due to you. Good luck, let me know if you have questions.


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> Nothing that is work related can be paid under medicare or medicaid, that post was in regard to dmm1976's son.


My son is on his own disability I'm not sure what you mean. But we have a special coordinator with a program called hands of hope that has made sure from the beginning that he had all he needed. Also his Medicaid as of now isn't effected by our income but the Ssi $ he gets is. It's a blessing for us that he qualified due to the circumstances of his birth because his care is expensive. A 6 month NICU stay is something I'm not sure many people could pay for. I'm very thankful.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

dmm1976 said:


> My son is on his own disability I'm not sure what you mean. But we have a special coordinator with a program called hands of hope that has made sure from the beginning that he had all he needed. Also his Medicaid as of now isn't effected by our income but the Ssi $ he gets is. It's a blessing for us that he qualified due to the circumstances of his birth because his care is expensive. A 6 month NICU stay is something I'm not sure many people could pay for. I'm very thankful.


Six weeks of PICU severely affected the finances of my daughters family, even with “great” insurance. Best wishes for you.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

dmm1976 said:


> My son is on his own disability I'm not sure what you mean. But we have a special coordinator with a program called hands of hope that has made sure from the beginning that he had all he needed. Also his Medicaid as of now isn't effected by our income but the Ssi $ he gets is. It's a blessing for us that he qualified due to the circumstances of his birth because his care is expensive. A 6 month NICU stay is something I'm not sure many people could pay for. I'm very thankful.


I'm glad you have a coordinator because so many people just don't know what programs are available. Your son's SS is separate but (most likely) paid through your husband's number, it won't effect his retirement benefit. It's a program for children/young adults under the age of 21 that become disabled.

Mine were both in NICU (premature) the first for less than a week and the second for just over a week, and that was hard enough. I can't imagine NICU for six weeks or especially six months.


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## Grandmotherbear (May 15, 2002)

Farmerbrown, that's not what I learnt as a Hospice nurse educator.

Forcast- What kind of pain? Sharp stabbing = nerve pain, dull aching - bone pain.
Are you taking a maximum dose of NSAID? We preferred to use Trilisate, (choline Magnesium Trisalicylate) for its fairly benign profile, altho as with any NSAID there is always some risk of bleeding from ulceration/increase in blood pressure. The nearest OTC agent is Doan's Pills. Because of my labile blood pressure I've had to switch to Naprosyn, 440 mg 2 to 3 times daily. Used a LOT of Vioxx before it was taken off the market.

Are you on a maximum dose of nerve pain agents? I prefer Elavil for mine, started at 25 mg with complete relief but over the last 13 years, with more injuries, the Elavil has slowly advanced up to 100 to 150 mg at bedtime. Other medicines that could help would be a dosepak of steroids, Catapress patches, or anti seizure meds.

Are you taking a general purpose pain pill? There was a reason why Vicoden was so widely prescribed- because it really worked well. I was on the same dose of vicoden for about 8 years- still able to work and everything. When the government came along and mandated monkeying with its formulation by reducing the amount of acetaminophen, a lot of people found that it 1. wasn't able to control their pain anymore and 2. the price shot out of sight as the new formula was patented. Our pain control doctor offered us the choice of opiods (yes, because of my experience) the closest we could approximate was 1/2 Percocet with 500 mg added of acetaminophen. But it still wasn't as good at relieving pain as the Vicoden had been.

Have you tried the Lidocaine patches? These need to be applied over the trigger areas. Prescription strength is 5 % and you can get the non prescription 4% put out by Aspercream and Salonpas. I've gone to the OTC patches ever since the prescribed patch price went from $237 month to $445 month. I put mine over the sacroiliac joints.

My daughter found that acupuncture helped her back pain. Mine was really helped by my chiropractor - prescribed orthotic inserts, manipulated the spine, and gave me a series of non invasive laser treatments. The non invasive laser worked wonderfully! The pain is not totally gone but I am functioning, able to lift our 16 lb cat and carry groceries in from the car. BTW this was the 3rd chiropractor I tried. The moral of the story is if at first you don't succeed, try try again


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Just bring back quludes (sp)


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

That is sad, and so sorry.

Yes, I agree, the government rarely makes anything better.

That's not to say I don't think something needs to be done about the prescription drug problem - when it is a problem. Once again, rather than going after the doctor's who are nothing but 'legal' drug pushers and the drug companies that know they are pouring out more than is truly needed, the rules are going to punish those who truly need them.

Twas ever thus ------


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Trixie said:


> That is sad, and so sorry.
> 
> Yes, I agree, the government rarely makes anything better.
> 
> ...



This is so tough because obviously the poster needs them for medical reasons, but then thereis obviously a nationwide problem (Canada). You just wish somewhere in this mess there was a common sense solution for her. Wish the best to original poster


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I'm not understanding giving soboxin that you again become addicted too. Does the government own soboxin?


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Vicodin's aren't meant to be used for eternity


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Just sorry you have to go through this. Hope you find you can get compensation for the extra travel expenses. Employer's pay out the nose for workers comp insurance, but it has been abused a lot too so it makes it harder for the real cases to get their needs met.

It seems like with most government crackdowns, the innocent suffer and yet for the guilty it's still business as usual. Like the OTC allergy meds. My in-laws have a whole household of allergies and they have to get another relative to buy them meds sometimes, they go over some "limit" which has been set. Legal and responsible gun owners jump thru hoops, meanwhile criminals seem to get them at will anyway. And now people with legit need for these pain meds will face all these obstacles, meanwhile I bet I could go to a dark alley and buy all that I could afford.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

HeavyHauler said:


> Look into kratom. It's a great plant. It can help reduce your pain and not get you high or anything.
> 
> I use it daily for my pain, instead of my prescribed opiates.
> 
> ...


Found a lot of stuff messes up my Blood Thinners. I tried something else they said it was like I wasn't taking my Blood Thinners at all. Plus I can't have Caffeine.

I know my Pain Medication knocks me out, the other day my wife came home I was out, she tried waking me and couldn't.

Legally I'm not to drive but I still do.

big rockpile


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Forcast,

If you cant afford the expense of having to travel for an office visit every month for your mrd, you might consider asking your doctor if there is a schedule III medication that might work as well as the schedule II medication your currently prescribed.

A friend of my mother who survived a car wreck about 10 years ago but came out about as bad off as Evel Kneival after that botched casino jump was having problems going every month to her doctor about 50 miles away from where she lived and her doctor gave her the lower schedule medication that worked about as well as the higher schedule medication so she could be prescribed refills and only have to see him every 4 or 5 months as she was before.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Didnt think about that! I'll find out.
Went on line looked up 3drugs never heard of any. Seems they have steroid testosterone caffeen asprin? Or codeine?


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## catsboy (May 14, 2015)

My wife, who has two knee replacements, one shoulder replacement and 4 pins from a back fusion, got a letter in yesterday's mail from our doctor stating that he could only prescribe one week of pain med than he would have to send her to a pain management doctor. Because of all the news lately she had been trying to wean down from 2 a day to one a day. At one a day she is able to function all day long with a couple hour break around 2 pm. I don't see how one a day is abusing them since she goes to work everyday and can function normally. If your physician can justify his treatment I don't see where the government needs to get involved. I've never experienced a pain management doctor and I have no idea how they operate. I just hope they can come up with something that my wife can do/take that will allow her to continue to function in a normal ( what is normal anyway) way.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I’ve never understood why the government should have any say in what a adult does with their body.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> I’ve never understood why the government should have any say in what a adult does with their body.


Because they are from the government and are here to help us.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I'm with a good major pain management office. They are also going to one week medications at a time. I dont see insurance companies letting us go every week. One visit for my doc cost $198.00 just for visits to get the prescriptions. Injections steroid $987 per shot + office visit. My insurance won't cover the shots, pt,ot, chiropractor ect.
If i was still at work i coukd never take a day off to go to docs ever week. It's a good 3.5 hours with drive and wait times.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

You can grow your own poppies. Although it's illegal to process them, I imagine an old gal making herbal tea would be OK.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Can't add anything on the pain medication side, others are more knowledgeable than I. I hear a couple of things that concern me otherwise...

1. Is there something surgically that can be done to help alleviate the pain?

2. This is a long time for a worker's comp case to go on... I really hope you have resolution soon.

I guess what I'm trying to say, however badly, is I sincerely wish you the best outcome possible, to be as pain free as possible.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Jolly said:


> Can't add anything on the pain medication side, others are more knowledgeable than I. I hear a couple of things that concern me otherwise...
> 
> 1. Is there something surgically that can be done to help alleviate the pain?
> 
> ...


There is a surgical implant device they are starting to use.
I think it's worth watching for the results to come in.
https://www.painweek.org/news_posts...ate-for-spinal-cord-stimulation-implants.html

By coincidence, my sister-in-law, a neighbor and 2 of my wife's clients all in different states, had the same surgery 2 days ago.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

big rockpile said:


> I know my Pain Medication knocks me out, the other day my wife came home I was out, she tried waking me and couldn't.
> 
> Legally I'm not to drive but I still do.
> 
> big rockpile


Please don't. You're bound to kill someone.
It's no different than getting drunk and driving.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Clem said:


> You can grow your own poppies. Although it's illegal to process them, I imagine an old gal making herbal tea would be OK.


You know I have tried for 20 years to grow poppies. No luck at all. Had good patch when we lived in Texas. Had trouble with my horse eating them. My grand mother had them forever. I lived on the next lot from her and still couldn't grow them. Now in West Va putting in a new garden in spring I'll try it again. I'll just lick them now and then.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Ya I've had 2 surgeons offer surgery( I have a plate with 10 screws) to redo the first fix. The big shot surgeon that did the first one said he wont redo till I'm in a wheel chair. Harford is my workerscomp insurance provider and they wont let me have anything. Every 18 month to24 months they cut me off and I have to go back to court. And then everything starts back over till I get to the point of finding the right meds that work. Cause every new doc wants to start at the beginning take an asprin and see you next month. The goverment is tge problem this time. When i had the workerscomp check each month i did fine money wise. But when that ends its tough. My case is open the last workerscomp judge (2yrs)would not except the settlement offer saud no way. I got a check for $12000.00 used that to pay back bills and payoff the house. Lawyer has not called me back yet. So not sure what will happen. Its just so frustrating that its not the insurance its the government. Ya each month the pain management doc requests this or that treatment but no go. Mainly just wanted folks to have a heads up about whats happening. Wonder if i can sue the government for withholding care my meds. I looked on line lots of class action to sue the drug companies for addicting them.
Already people from my pain management office have been told each week apt. Starts for then now. Just cant believe insurance companies are going to stand for this weekly apointments. What like $800 a month! Doc offices dont loose a thing now they have hundrens coming every week instead of every month or 2 months. My bett is the monthly will go on a few months then the everyweek will kick in.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Forcast said:


> You know I have tried for 20 years to grow poppies. No luck at all. Had good patch when we lived in Texas. Had trouble with my horse eating them. My grand mother had them forever. I lived on the next lot from her and still couldn't grow them. Now in West Va putting in a new garden in spring I'll try it again. I'll just lick them now and then.


There are California poppies, very common in in this country, but useless for your purpose. Opium poppies are a bit harder to find, terribly illegal.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Just got a seed book they have all colors of opium poppies. Big ones. Ill see if i can order the plants. Saw some seeds awhile back on ebay. When my husband was in the Gulf war he sent seeds home. Maybe that's why I could grow them in Texas. Fresh seeds or real ones not sure?


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Clem said:


> You can grow your own poppies. Although it's *illegal* to process them, I imagine an old gal making herbal tea would be OK.


Isn't that a sick bird?


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> There are California poppies, very common in in this country, but useless for your purpose. Opium poppies are a bit harder to find, terribly illegal.


Nonsense. Not only are the papaver soniferum seeds readily available, they are also the seeds in the "poppy seeds" you buy in the spice aisle at the grocery store.
https://organicalbotanicals.com/product/giganteum-papaver-somniferum-poppy-seed/?v=7516fd43adaa


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Yup, somniferum is straight culinary poppy seed. I heard they were illegal to sell in the US but pretty sure I saw them under herbs in Baker Creek Seeds.
I don't know if it's safe to self medicate with them but they are avail.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

I don't like the opioid thing at all. I've always had trouble with pain medications. I just can't tolerate it. It makes me very sick, with some medications making me retch for hours after taking it. Probably the best of the old school medications for me was codeine, but I could only take it for a couple of days before stomach inflammation took over.

I don't have a lot of experience with opioids, but I've had lortab (hydrocodone) a few times. It seemed to agree with me. I finally found something I could tolerate, then they want to take it away from me. My doctor says there are new reporting requirements to track opioid prescriptions and they don't have the personnel to do it. She's referring all of her patients who need pain medications to a pain clinic.

I don't have any ongoing issues that require pain medication so I guess it's not an immediate problem for me, but life just got a little harder than it was. I'm not sure what the government is after with this opioid thing, but whatever it is they don't have it yet. I suspect that they want to strip licensed doctors of power and privileges. The end result will be that we'll have just that many more specialists we'll have to see to deal with ordinary medical problems.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

My insanely paranoid opinion is that the government is trying to criminalize even more of regular, day to day activities. Once you know that what you're doing can get you in trouble, you tend to keep a lopro, if you got good sense.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Clem said:


> My insanely paranoid opinion is that the government is trying to criminalize even more of regular, day to day activities.


Agreed. Once again...


> *“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”*
> 
> ― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

I don't disagree, although I still think something should have been,still should be, done about the pharmaceutical companies and doctors who are pushers.

If they had simply prescribed it as where and when it was truly needed, this problem would not have happened.

The doctors knew what they were doing, the pharmaceuticals did as well. I wonder how many of those pill-mill doctors got trips to golf resorts, new golf clubs, and more?

Just my opinion.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Clem said:


> You can grow your own poppies. Although it's illegal to process them, I imagine an old gal making herbal tea would be OK.


Ebay and Amazon has lots


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

I'm so sorry for everyone with chronic pain in this thread, and hope you find comfort somewhere. 

I mainly wanted to poke my nose in and say that people with chronic pain are typically NOT the ones abusing opioids and are not your typical addicts. Those two classifications of opioid "users" need to be separated in this discussion, both by us and by the overly intrusive government. Opioids have a very important place in severe and chronic pain management. Letting junkies, whose only reason for taking them is to avoid life and get high, interfere with the quality of life of people who NEED these medications to function is a terrible, terrible decision.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Family docs have stopped prescribing pain meds and refer folks to pain management for at least the ladt 2 years here. I can tell you the first time you walk into a pain management office you are treated like a drug addict. The questions asked are way out of line in my humble mind. So what have you been using. Where do you get it. How long on and on. Then you have to take a drug test. They tested me for over 200 types of drugs. 3 pages of print outs. Some drugs i had not taken in months or at all that I know of. Even poppy seeds on food will pop your test. Anyway you go home and wait for the next appointment to be prescribed anything. Then you start all over even when you know you cant toloate such and such or tell them what works. Now that was last year. This year I'm sure it worse. Some how I think the pain management office are going to make lots and lots of money. Weekly appointment s. Still dont think the insurance companies medicare Medicaid will stand for it. So I'm thinking if you can handle the weekly trips for awhile it wont last many months before it gets back to normal. But we will see. So as long as i can pull off the monthly trip ill squirrel away what meds i get. No way i can cover the cost of weekly trips.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Culinary spice poppy seeds can be illegal. It all depends how a probation decree is worded.

Many years ago a coworker's brother on probation for heroin use was told not to consume poppy seed as used on rolls and buns because a condition of his probation was random drug testing and culinary poppy seeds would trigger a positive on his drug screen.

The way I was told, when he popped positive on his test that sent him up for the original term of his sentence, he tried to say he must have eaten a bun with poppy seeds and the probation officer and judge who revoked his probation both reminded him that the no poppy seed garnished foods was bolded in his probation decree and to the state joint he went for two or three years.

Despite his food claim, his brother said he figured he probably started using again


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## KandCfamilyfarm (Nov 4, 2017)

Forcast said:


> Some here know I broke my neck at work in 2006. Because it's workerscomp it's been a nightmare. So today I drove the 110 miles to my pain doc. (I had been going every other month to be able to afford the gas. ) NOW because of our government I have to go in 4 weeks. Precriptions are all no refills. That's just for February. Then I have to go every WEEK! So that antt gona fly. Just cant afford too. My budget is $20 for gas a month. Other problem is workerscomp that pays for prescriptions takes up to 10 days to approve the script. This is a nightmare.
> So my choices :dont go dont have drugs it will take about 3 days for the pain to get to bedridden levels. Apply for home health care from Medicaid. Go to a drug clinic and get soboxin, hear it helps with pain and the government sells it. Buy drugs on the street. Shoot myself. God love the USA and the war on drugs. It will make me a street drug user. Sucks. Im not upset because I'm addicted to the pain meds Im not been cut off too many times since 2006. Its quality of life I loose by being able to have the drugs that work. Only took 10 years tofind the right one. So if you all are heading to your pain doc dont be surprised at the change.


What do you take? I broke my neck and back in 3 places. Broke my neck right below my serabelem and broke my back right below my last rib and right at the top of my hips. they started me off on tramadol and codeine went up to oxy then just started giving me morphine. I think they where trying to kill be after I started the morphine at the dose the doctor prescribed I slept for 2 days almost straight and hallucinated about a wall of snakes that kept attacking me. worse than when I used to do mushrooms and lsd. long story short I stopped all drugs except smoking tobacco I don't even drink any more.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Forcast said:


> Family docs have stopped prescribing pain meds and refer folks to pain management for at least the ladt 2 years here. I can tell you the first time you walk into a pain management office you are treated like a drug addict. The questions asked are way out of line in my humble mind. So what have you been using. Where do you get it. How long on and on. Then you have to take a drug test. They tested me for over 200 types of drugs. 3 pages of print outs. Some drugs i had not taken in months or at all that I know of. Even poppy seeds on food will pop your test. Anyway you go home and wait for the next appointment to be prescribed anything. Then you start all over even when you know you cant toloate such and such or tell them what works. Now that was last year. This year I'm sure it worse. Some how I think the pain management office are going to make lots and lots of money. Weekly appointment s. Still dont think the insurance companies medicare Medicaid will stand for it. So I'm thinking if you can handle the weekly trips for awhile it wont last many months before it gets back to normal. But we will see. So as long as i can pull off the monthly trip ill squirrel away what meds i get. No way i can cover the cost of weekly trips.


OK, I can see that for chronic problems, but if you only need pain meds for a few days for an acute problem I don't see what it hurts to have primary doctors prescribe.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Nevada said:


> OK, I can see that for chronic problems, but if you only need pain meds for a few days for an acute problem I don't see what it hurts to have primary doctors prescribe.


You'd be surprised. We've run into a lot of docs lately that won't prescribe anything unless it is within their specialty. Pain meds? Have to go to pain management. Need anti-anxiety medication - even the "kiddie" stuff? Have to go to a psychiatrist. Need beta-blockers? Have to see a cardiologist. Everything is becoming so specialized that something that used to take one appointment at your PCM/PCP now takes a bunch of different visits to a bunch of different specialists. 

It's getting super annoying (daughter has an incurable genetic condition that causes chronic pain, the specialist/compartmentalized medicine thing has been getting worse and worse over the years).


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

KandCfamilyfarm said:


> What do you take? I broke my neck and back in 3 places. Broke my neck right below my serabelem and broke my back right below my last rib and right at the top of my hips. they started me off on tramadol and codeine went up to oxy then just started giving me morphine. I think they where trying to kill be after I started the morphine at the dose the doctor prescribed I slept for 2 days almost straight and hallucinated about a wall of snakes that kept attacking me. worse than when I used to do mushrooms and lsd. long story short I stopped all drugs except smoking tobacco I don't even drink any more.


I suppose I like my reaction to morphine better than yours! Once immediately prior to surgery, they started IV morphine and I immediately felt like I had been doused with fuel and set on fire! As painful as that was, I really, really don't like snakes!


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Mish said:


> You'd be surprised. We've run into a lot of docs lately that won't prescribe anything unless it is within their specialty. Pain meds? Have to go to pain management. Need anti-anxiety medication - even the "kiddie" stuff? Have to go to a psychiatrist. Need beta-blockers? Have to see a cardiologist. Everything is becoming so specialized that something that used to take one appointment at your PCM/PCP now takes a bunch of different visits to a bunch of different specialists.
> 
> It's getting super annoying (daughter has an incurable genetic condition that causes chronic pain, the specialist/compartmentalized medicine thing has been getting worse and worse over the years).





Shrek said:


> Culinary spice poppy seeds can be illegal. It all depends how a probation decree is worded.
> 
> Many years ago a coworker's brother on probation for heroin use was told not to consume poppy seed as used on rolls and buns because a condition of his probation was random drug testing and culinary poppy seeds would trigger a positive on his drug screen.
> 
> ...


Ok been reading up on opium poppy. You can buy seeds online, ebay and Amazon. The seeds need to be unwashed. You can get the directions on line. For a better tea use dry pods and stems . Again online directions. I'm ordering some seeds see if i can add them to my garden. So if you want some seeds let me know.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Forcast said:


> Ok been reading up on opium poppy. You can buy seeds online, ebay and Amazon. The seeds need to be unwashed. You can get the directions on line. For a better tea use dry pods and stems . Again online directions. I'm ordering some seeds see if i can add them to my garden. So if you want some seeds let me know.


Forcast, thank you so much for the very sweet offer. My daughter is actually intolerant to opioids, but she does take some other medications (Want people looking at you like you have a problem? Try asking for Ketamine) that are being impacted by the general crackdown on pain meds, so I've become a strident soap-box crusader. It sickens me that people are being made to feel like drug addicts or criminals for simply wanting to take a medication that helps with their pain.

I really hope those work out for you.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Mish said:


> You'd be surprised. We've run into a lot of docs lately that won't prescribe anything unless it is within their specialty. Pain meds? Have to go to pain management. Need anti-anxiety medication - even the "kiddie" stuff? Have to go to a psychiatrist. Need beta-blockers? Have to see a cardiologist. Everything is becoming so specialized that something that used to take one appointment at your PCM/PCP now takes a bunch of different visits to a bunch of different specialists.


Interestingly, my primary care doctor discussed prostate enlargement with me. I asked if I needed to drop my pants and bend over. She replied that she sends her patients to a specialist for that.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Dought I'll ever do more that admire a poppy if i can get them to grow. Just so frustrated. I guess we all need to say we are druggies and i bet the government will even pick me up so i can get some other drug. Stupid stupid. I sure don't see the addicts worry any.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Mish said:


> Pain meds? Have to go to pain management.


Actually, my primary care doctor can prescribe tramadol, but it's a poor excuse for a pain pill. It's not particularly strong and most people have vomiting when they first start it. But it's better than nothing if you have a painful problem. I took it for carpal tunnel.


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## KandCfamilyfarm (Nov 4, 2017)

Nevada said:


> Actually, my primary care doctor can prescribe tramadol, but it's a poor excuse for a pain pill. It's not particularly strong and most people have vomiting when they first start it. But it's better than nothing if you have a painful problem. I took it for carpal tunnel.


I call it dam it all. it works better when taken with codeine.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

KandCfamilyfarm said:


> I call it dam it all. it works better when taken with codeine.


Now that's Funny! Thanks i needed that


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

This is the newest bunch. Soma or flexeril, oxycodone 10, cymbalta, meloxicam. Soma for muscle spasms cymbalta for nerve pain. Aspirin is as good as meloxicam in me. I think over the years I've been on everything even fentenal(sp) patches. I have heard of people on workers comp and not being able to deal with pain, shooting them selves in the affected area to get surgery to fix the work related injury.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Are we taking stronger pain medication that before? And more of them? And why?

I'm sure there are many reasons. Also, I'm sure at one time, strong pain killers were legal. I don't know if it was legal, but my Grandmother said a lot of people used to have marijuana plants in their flower beds, and she said you could buy laudanum at the drug store. Also, I remember when , I believe it was paregoric, was OTC. Maybe people had access to stronger pain killers that now must have a prescription?

I don't know much about stronger pain killers, aspirin is my go to. 

A doctor once prescribed a huge bottle of codeine and some antibiotics for tonsillitis. He admonished me to take it all. I didn't have a clue what codeine was and this was long before the internet. My Mother knew I had been sick and called to check, about two weeks later. I told her my nose itched a lot and I felt a little 'swimmy headed') - and old folks term, but was still taking the medication. Mother asked what I was taking and how long I had been taking it, she was alarmed, but chuckled a little and suggested maybe I had had enough painkillers. 

This was over 50 years ago - I was 'just a child'.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

The problem I see is people buy drugs on the street. Thats what the war is all about. Me I use my drugs when I need them to function normally. Dont over use if anything under use. I don't sell my drugs or pass them around as treats. I have been cut off meds for years at a time since 2006. No Insurance. The cost of doctor appointments has always been sticker shock for me. I never had with draw so I dont know what the druggies feel. And you know i don't care one bit. Because of them I'm going to hurt for no reason at all. The way i feel is let them overdose no narcan just call it suicide. I know full well if i take a handfull of pills i might die. So be it. Some place it's a follow the money. Who is making money of me not being able to get my drug? Insurance companies because we have to go every week starting in march. Rehabs? It wont be me that's sure with added costs to see the doc. I hear medicare and Medicaid won't cover some pain drugs soon. I hear the drugs used by rehab soboxin is not covered now and i hear it cost $300 a month. Not counting the cost to go to out patient drug rehab. So the makers of the drugs they give you to get off the drugs your doctor percribed is follow the money in my book. Maybe drug testing is a follow the money. Pain clinics will see some extra money till this is over since the once a week rule. How would you get time off work every week? Not me with my job i was all over the state.


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## Grandmotherbear (May 15, 2002)

Humana doesn't cover any pain meds at all including lidocaine patches.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Grandmotherbear said:


> Humana doesn't cover any pain meds at all including lidocaine patches.


Is that the Medicare supplement insurance? Does regular Part D cover pain meds?


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## Grandmotherbear (May 15, 2002)

This is the information on the new pain med regulations from the state of NJ. Incidentally, to those who suggested using a schedule 3 instead of schedule 2 drug, that went away due to changes in federal regulations from 2014.
Please read carefully. https://www.njafp.org/content/new-prescribing-law-treatment-acute-and-chronic-pain


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Wonder how many people will apply for total disability? Bet a LOT.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Grandmotherbear said:


> This is the information on the new pain med regulations from the state of NJ. Incidentally, to those who suggested using a schedule 3 instead of schedule 2 drug, that went away due to changes in federal regulations from 2014.
> Please read carefully. https://www.njafp.org/content/new-prescribing-law-treatment-acute-and-chronic-pain


Are other states using these guidelines? I'm only familiar with NY, and no one has been on scheduled pain meds in years. 

It certainly looks like it's going to cause issues across the board...


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

I am so sorry for those dealing with this. 


My husband has to go to the Dr. every 2 months or he can't get his medication refilled. It costs $130 for him to get his BP checked. That makes no sense. I do understand periodic checks on an older person taking medication, but this is a little excessive.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Forcast said:


> The problem I see is people buy drugs on the street. Thats what the war is all about. Me I use my drugs when I need them to function normally.


That's an important point that the government is ignoring. Abusers aren't getting opioids from their doctor.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/articl...ssf/2018/01/getting_high_from_imodium_fda.amp


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Forcast said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/articl...ssf/2018/01/getting_high_from_imodium_fda.amp


Imodium is an interesting drug. It's actually a powerful pain medication, sometimes compared in strength to opiates, and works great for certain otherwise painful colon cramps. The reason it doesn't work for other parts of the body is because it isn't absorbed into the bloodstream to any great extent. It basically says in the digestive tract.

Evidently a small amount gets through, so high doses have some effect.

Our government seems to have an obsession with the idea that someone might be getting high.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Well guess we need to stock up now. Have had diverticulitis and diverticuloses (sp) so I know Imodium.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Forcast, I was just thinking...

Didn't West Virginia recently legalize medical marijuana? It might be worth looking into. My daughter finds it extremely helpful for her pain, and it works when other things don't. Even if you don't like the idea of using actual marijuana, a lot of people find the extracts (CBD oil) helpful, and some of them have low or no THC (the stuff that makes you "high"). 

Anyway, off-topic sort of but I am just feeling so badly for you and was trying to think of some alternatives. Worth looking into if nothing else.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Nevada said:


> That's an important point that the government is ignoring. Abusers aren't getting opioids from their doctor.



I think there are many abusers who get their meds from their doctors. If they are taking more than they need, taking meds they don't need or shouldn't be taking - those are abusers. 

Doctors prescribe these drugs, unless the pharmaceutical companies are passing them out without a doctor's prescription.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Trixie said:


> I think there are many abusers who get their meds from their doctors. If they are taking more than they need, taking meds they don't need or shouldn't be taking - those are abusers.


I can't imagine my doctor prescribing more pain meds than I need. I know that some doctors do that, but I have no idea why.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Nevada said:


> I can't imagine my doctor prescribing more pain meds than I need. I know that some doctors do that, but I have no idea why.


I once took my children to the doctor, he was a crusty gentlemen, but good. There were a couple of drug reps in his office. 

Sometimes I ask questions that seem impertinent but it's the only way I can find out things. I asked him if doctors get kickbacks for prescribing medicines. He said, "Why do you think some doctors will take drug reps in ahead of a paying customer?"

A new young doctor moved into town a couple of years ago. He was playing golf with my husband and some guys. He showed off his new very expensive set of clubs. Before he thought, my husband asked which drug company bought him that.

He said, "How did you know?"


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## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

Nevada said:


> I can't imagine my doctor prescribing more pain meds than I need. I know that some doctors do that, but I have no idea why.


When I broke my leg last year I was in no pain. The ER Doctor was pretty insistent on giving me a prescription for "a good painkiller". I have no idea what he had in mind because I refused it, but I have no idea why it would be offered if I had told him I had no pain.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Nsoitgoes said:


> When I broke my leg last year I was in no pain. The ER Doctor was pretty insistent on giving me a prescription for "a good painkiller". I have no idea what he had in mind because I refused it, but I have no idea why it would be offered if I had told him I had no pain.


Even at that, an ER doctor would have only prescribed a small handful of pills.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Most people have pain with a broken leg. He quite likely thought you were running on adrenaline and would start hurting when it wore off. And as Nevada says, they really don't give much. And, you can always throw them away if you don't need them.

Mon


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

frogmammy said:


> Most people have pain with a broken leg. He quite likely thought you were running on adrenaline and would start hurting when it wore off.


Yes, broken bones can really ache at night.


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## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

frogmammy said:


> Most people have pain with a broken leg. He quite likely thought you were running on adrenaline and would start hurting when it wore off. And as Nevada says, they really don't give much. And, you can always throw them away if you don't need them.
> 
> Mon


The adrenaline had plenty of time to dissipate. It was the following day. I knew little could be done until the swelling went down.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Nevada said:


> I can't imagine my doctor prescribing more pain meds than I need. I know that some doctors do that, but I have no idea why.


I'll give ya 3 guesses...........

And I know how sensitive a subject this is, but at the risk of getting some heat, this link should give everyone a needed jolt of reality.........

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/27/americans-consume-almost-all-of-the-global-opioid-supply.html


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

farmrbrown said:


> I'll give ya 3 guesses...........
> 
> And I know how sensitive a subject this is, but at the risk of getting some heat, this link should give everyone a needed jolt of reality.........
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/27/americans-consume-almost-all-of-the-global-opioid-supply.html


And there are instances where opioids (of all levels) are needed, to blithely imply that everyone that requires pain medication is an addict, or that it is not needed, is simply wrong.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Irish Pixie said:


> And there are instances where opioids (of all levels) are needed,* to blithely imply that everyone that requires pain medication is an addict is simply wrong.*


Yep.
Good thing no one is dumb enough to say that, huh?
Anything in that link you found interesting, any factoid you'd like to discuss?


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Nevada said:


> I can't imagine my doctor prescribing more pain meds than I need. I know that some doctors do that, but I have no idea why.


Haven't you ever heard of "Doc shopping"? Also addicts go to multiple doctors, not just one, for their fix. It used to be easier to go different pharmacies to get their prescriptions filled - many times under various names. Why do you think everyone wants to verify it's you by asking for your drivers license? Addicts are pretty crafty when it comes to getting their fix.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Wolf mom said:


> Haven't you ever heard of "Doc shopping"? Also addicts go to multiple doctors, not just one, for their fix.


But that's already illegal.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Nevada said:


> But that's already illegal.


Most states (I think 37) have scheduled drug tracking programs as well, doctor/pharmacy shopping is much harder than it was.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.wnyt...-state-of-addiction-opioid-addiction/4767964/


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Forcast said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/amp.wnyt...-state-of-addiction-opioid-addiction/4767964/


There have been quite a few deaths associated with kratom, including a NY police sergeant last fall.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Irish Pixie said:


> And there are instances where opioids (of all levels) are needed, to blithely imply that everyone that requires pain medication is an addict, or that it is not needed, is simply wrong.



Now this is my personal opinion on these pain meds. And in no way am I criticizing the original poster. If the pain is going to be "temporary"i.e. wisdon teeth removed, only otc. I know there can be a good deal of pain, but it will get better. If it is a terminal illness-fill with all the pain killers they want, who cares if they are addicted.

But then that leaves the troubling middle ground-the person who will be in pain for the rest of their lives because of a chronic condition. First I guess is what the patient wants. Maybe they don't want heavy duty pain killers, so don't prscribe. Second-are there alternatives? And I guess finally prescribe them. What I would say is require monthly appointments for refills the first 3 months or so to check for toleranceetc.After that maybe give 6 month precription that can be refilled once a month.

To control Dr shopping maybe once you become a longer term user, you are issued a pain killer #and that pain killer # is with your name, so if you go to another Dr that # pops up.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

keenataz said:


> Now this is my personal opinion on these pain meds. And in no way am I criticizing the original poster. If the pain is going to be "temporary"i.e. wisdon teeth removed, only otc. I know there can be a good deal of pain, but it will get better. If it is a terminal illness-fill with all the pain killers they want, who cares if they are addicted.
> 
> But then that leaves the troubling middle ground-the person who will be in pain for the rest of their lives because of a chronic condition. First I guess is what the patient wants. Maybe they don't want heavy duty pain killers, so don't prscribe. Second-are there alternatives? And I guess finally prescribe them. What I would say is require monthly appointments for refills the first 3 months or so to check for toleranceetc.After that maybe give 6 month precription that can be refilled once a month.
> 
> To control Dr shopping maybe once you become a longer term user, you are issued a pain killer #and that pain killer # is with your name, so if you go to another Dr that # pops up.


I agree. I think the new "rule" is 5 pills initially for minor procedures, and the Dr reevaluates tho. People that are dying, in chronic verifiable pain, etc. shouldn't be subject "rules" that govern wisdom tooth type removals. The state clearing house programs track via personal information- name, address, insurance, etc. so that there is less Dr. shopping.

I also agree that it has gotten to the point where there was an issue of my mother in law having all the pain meds she needed while she was dying in a hospice suite in a hospital, and that is just wrong. What was weird is that they had no problem when a bunch of wine was brought in when she and her sisters had their last "sisters party". They were all tanked, including the patient.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

keenataz said:


> If the pain is going to be "temporary"i.e. wisdon teeth removed, only otc. I know there can be a good deal of pain, but it will get better.


What's the objective in denying short term use of pain meds?


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

I am on the outside looking in at this and that can be a disadvantage - but maybe an advantage.

The fact is, we have a problem. Some doctors are prescribing those pills - unless it's one of the cases of pharmacy burglaries - which seems to happen. Why is it suddenly this relative new type drug is what is necessary? There has to be some bad behavior on the part of doctors, pharmaceutical companies - and the patients.

And, while we have always had legal 'addicts', it seems to be worse now. Either it is worse, or we are just now talking about it.

I had read similar articles concerning the percentages of drugs this country consumes compared to the rest of the world. Painkillers are what we are discussing, but it seems we consume more anti-depressant type medications, and more drugs of all kind.

Surely, we can ask ourselves why this is true and are they really always needed. There was a time, we would probably boast of our excellent healthcare system and how healthy we all are - but that would be laughable now.

Other countries use a lot of alternative medicine, but overall, the perception of herbs, etc., is a joke, just laughable, in this country. I can see how pharmaceutical companies, doctors, Wall Street, politicians, pharmacists, etc., would want that perception to continue to be pushed.

On the flip side, I saw a man interviewed about taking these meds o- he said his pain was so severe, it was either the pill or suicide. I don't know enough about addiction, withdrawal, etc., to know if the pain was real from a physical injury/condition, or if it was real from addiction. I don't think I could be the one to tell him he couldn't have it. I could be the one who would prosecute the doctor, pharmaceutical companies, if they deliberately got him addicted.


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## In The Woods (Apr 27, 2017)

Cronic pain is a real thing. And yes, I have seen it in my wife - something to reduce the pain or suicide.

It is a real thing. Those who are fortunate to not have ever felt what it is like shouldn’t be so quick to judge. All this attention has done is make it much more difficult for my wife to find some semblance of relief.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Nevada said:


> What's the objective in denying short term use of pain meds?


Many may disagree with me, but for years for short term pain we relied on T3s and that semed adequate. And I am sure most short term users of stronger pain meds can take them with no addiction worries. But my belief if it is short term why take the risk.

I know for myself years ago I had back spasms and was prescribed muscle relaxants and within a week I started craving them.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

In The Woods said:


> Cronic pain is a real thing. And yes, I have seen it in my wife - something to reduce the pain or suicide.
> 
> It is a real thing. Those who are fortunate to not have ever felt what it is like shouldn’t be so quick to judge. All this attention has done is make it much more difficult for my wife to find some semblance of relief.


I am so sorry for your wife, I know situations like this are true. It bothers me also that having access to medications that are truly needed might be curtailed because the big guys wanted to make a fast, obscene profit, and the government doesn't seem to have enough backbone to correct the situation.

The government, and their handlers, are probably making it so hard for legitimate users, that there will be an uproar, and they can then back away, saying it's what the people want.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the attention it's getting - the problem is the solution from the government, pharmaceutical companies, and doctors. 

The horror is with creation of the problem in the first place by those who just want to make tons of money, and with the solution the government uses.

The government knew about this up front, the pharmaceutical companies knew far too many prescriptions were being written, the doctors knew what they were doing. They didn't care that lives were being destroyed as long as they make money. They didn't/don't care if the people who actually need this and are helped by it, no longer can obtain it because of their actions.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

In The Woods said:


> Cronic pain is a real thing. And yes, I have seen it in my wife - something to reduce the pain or suicide.
> 
> It is a real thing. Those who are fortunate to not have ever felt what it is like shouldn’t be so quick to judge. All this attention has done is make it much more difficult for my wife to find some semblance of relief.



Please note in no way am I judging. If you read my posting you'll note that I said I believe once a chronuc patient is stabilized, maybe 3 months, they should be given prescriptions with more renewals.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Trixie said:


> Why is it suddenly this relative new type drug is what is necessary?


It's not, but old school drugs like codeine are now restricted too. The only thing left for a family doctor to prescribe is tramadol, but it's not appropriate for severe pain.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

In The Woods said:


> Cronic pain is a real thing. And yes, I have seen it in my wife - something to reduce the pain or suicide.
> 
> It is a real thing. Those who are fortunate to not have ever felt what it is like shouldn’t be so quick to judge. All this attention has done is make it much more difficult for my wife to find some semblance of relief.


Preach it Brother!


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

This insurance covers pot?


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Mish said:


> Forcast, I was just thinking...
> 
> Didn't West Virginia recently legalize medical marijuana? It might be worth looking into. My daughter finds it extremely helpful for her pain, and it works when other things don't. Even if you don't like the idea of using actual marijuana, a lot of people find the extracts (CBD oil) helpful, and some of them have low or no THC (the stuff that makes you "high").
> 
> Anyway, off-topic sort of but I am just feeling so badly for you and was trying to think of some alternatives. Worth looking into if nothing else.


Far as I see people are still bidding for medical licences. Sheriff still arrests marijuana and growing plants. Just 24 miles away in Handcock maryland they are getting set to build a grow building. Huge huge cost lots of hoops and ladders to cross before it even can start. Do insurances cover any medical marijuana?


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Forcast said:


> Far as I see people are still bidding for medical licences. Sheriff still arrests marijuana and growing plants. Just 24 miles away in Handcock maryland they are getting set to build a grow building. Huge huge cost lots of hoops and ladders to cross before it even can start. Do insurances cover any medical marijuana?



Not in BC yet


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Nevada said:


> It's not, but old school drugs like codeine are now restricted too. The only thing left for a family doctor to prescribe is tramadol, but it's not appropriate for severe pain.


It just seems to me, in creating the problem, these drugs were not restricted - or if they were, someone wasn't checking the records. 

From what I have read, it seems the country is awash in the new type drugs - the 'oxy' drugs. They are fairly new to me and I am trying to understand why suddenly (relatively sudden) so many people have such severe pain that they are the best meds. Is it really the best meds or is it the newest, most addictive and most expensive? 

My question, is are doctors really prescribing the best meds for the problem, or are they prescribing strong drugs, creating addicts and future customers for the drug companies. That someone feels better and pain free when they take them is not the question. The question is, could another drug, with less potential for addiction have been used?

I had thought for a long time a certain class of drugs were monitored, as in entered into a database and I, perhaps naively, though doctors and pharmacists would actually look at those database to see if these patients had other prescriptions or the last time they were prescribed drugs by any doctor, etc. Evidently, the database didn't exist or the medical people were not checking.

This isn't a judgment on the people who take meds prescribed by the doctor - it's with the actions of the doctors and the pharmaceutical companies and the politicians who have allowed it.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Forcast said:


> Far as I see people are still bidding for medical licences. Sheriff still arrests marijuana and growing plants. Just 24 miles away in Handcock maryland they are getting set to build a grow building. Huge huge cost lots of hoops and ladders to cross before it even can start. Do insurances cover any medical marijuana?


I heard an Israeli company had bought a lot of land along the Colorado River in Colorado and are putting up marijuana grow houses. 

They can team that up with the Israelis who are in the ecstasy trade and make a bundle.

I have family in CO. Everytime they drive here, they get stopped not far into Texas, for some reason or another. They think every CO car is carrying marijuana I guess. The locals stopped my Grandson - just cause. I'm sure they thought this kid with CO plates was 'carrying'.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Looking like preppers need to buy in bulk over the counter meds cause before too long it will all be under prescription. Geez when you cant even by diarrhea pills ... Really you can over dose on anything.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

A very long time ago...touch more than 50 years, I worked at a nursing home, the terminal wing. Most of the time when I arrived at work, I could hear the patients screaming, or moaning, from the parking lot before even entering the building. Upon entering, they'd see you passing and beg for their meds, often with tears in their eyes, some barely able to speak, some the only thing they *could* move were their lips. Their eyes would watch with hope, until you told them, no, it's not time yet. Most just wished they'd go ahead and hurry up and die with whatever dignity they had left.

If I remember correctly, a well connected person could find an opium den (or similar) then...we just didn't want the ones who NEEDED pain relief to get addicted. Didn't matter that they were dying, we just didn't want them addicted. 

So now, fast forward and we're at the "it's not MY fault" generations that suggest, even support, the "Twinkie" defense and no one is ever responsible for their own actions. They are all innocent, lead astray by doctors and drug manufacturers, and not only that, we now have Narcan (naloxone) so those innocent persons can live after overdose, and overdose, and overdose, and overdose, ad infinitum ...

Now, I don't know about all of you, but if I wake up and my house is on fire, I am going to DO something about it! Same as if I "accidently" became addicted to drugs.....*I* would bear the responsibility to do something about it...ME MYSELF. Not you, not my parents or neighbors, not the school system, not my employer, just ME MYSELF.

All this talk about the war on drugs just seems to be missing that.

Mon


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Trixie said:


> I heard an Israeli company had bought a lot of land along the Colorado River in Colorado and are putting up marijuana grow houses.
> 
> They can team that up with the Israelis who are in the ecstasy trade and make a bundle.
> 
> I have family in CO. Everytime they drive here, they get stopped not far into Texas, for some reason or another. They think every CO car is carrying marijuana I guess. The locals stopped my Grandson - just cause. I'm sure they thought this kid with CO plates was 'carrying'.


I don't understand your reference to Israel based companies, can you explain?


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> I don't understand your reference to Israel based companies, can you explain?


I just said I heard some Israelis were getting ready to grow marijuana in CO.

As for the other, just google the connection between Israels and ecstasy.

Please don't try to read anything antiIsrael into that.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Trixie said:


> I just said I heard some Israelis were getting ready to grow marijuana in CO.
> 
> As for the other, just google the connection between Israels and ecstasy.
> 
> Please don't try to read anything antiIsrael into that.


Too late...


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Too late...


Of course -


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

frogmammy said:


> Now, I don't know about all of you, but if I wake up and my house is on fire, I am going to DO something about it! *Same as if I "accidently" became addicted to drugs.....*I* would bear the responsibility to do something about it...ME MYSELF. Not you, not my parents or neighbors, not the school system, not my employer, just ME MYSELF.*
> 
> All this talk about the war on drugs just seems to be missing that. Mon


Not sure you really understand addiction with that statement. Most who become addicted don't want to stop their drug use and need outside intervention of some sort.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Forcast said:


> This insurance covers pot?


In NY, the office visit to get the script for medical pot is covered by insurance as long as it's not the only reason you need to see the Dr. The pot itself is not covered under any insurance that I know of.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Real Dr's won't have anything to do with marijuana just as banks or attorneys because of the federal laws. The Dr's approving medical cards are foreigners not to worried about getting their license yanked. Pot is still a cash business because of the Fed's and it's against the law for attorneys to discuss breaking the law


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Never having been addicted to drugs, food and coffee are my addictions, any opinion I have is made without full knowledge.

It probably is a matter of personal responsibility to get off the drugs.. I don't know how hard it is to get off. Being addicted must be painful, life destroying, expensive, etc. I'm thinking most people are hooked before they know it and having a doctor prescribe it, you don't usually question them. Although I think you should, a lot of people don't- if you are in pain, even more reason you don't.

If someone gets hooked on illegal drugs, that's their responsibility. In that case, they know what they are doing. They may not want to think about the big picture, but they know. It's a different story when a person in pain goes to a doctor, a professional, who gives out drugs. Big difference.

My question is, did doctors, pharmaceutical companies deliberately push, prescribe and overprescribe these highly (evidently) addictive medications, when others would have done as well. Were they pushing this to simply sell a boatload of new medicines, or to create addicts that would be customers for life?

The addictive nature of this drug has been known for quite some time - it's not like they are still prescribing and don't know.

Yes, I think it is ridiculous terminal patients aren't allowed whatever to give them some ease. 

Also I see, as the man said, it's the medication or suicide as the pain is too great. I can't be the judge of that for him.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

One day you’re a patient the next day you’re an addict.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Forcast said:


> Far as I see people are still bidding for medical licences. Sheriff still arrests marijuana and growing plants. Just 24 miles away in Handcock maryland they are getting set to build a grow building. Huge huge cost lots of hoops and ladders to cross before it even can start. Do insurances cover any medical marijuana?


Well that stinks. As far as I know most insurances don't cover it, and depending on what you use and how often it can get pricey. My daughter's runs us about $80 a month, and that's with a medical card, which isn't taxed here (recreational is, though).

So dumb that they're still criminalizing possession even as they're moving toward legalizing. I never understand that. At least Ohio seems like they decriminalized most of it while they're working on getting it fully legal and running.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Trixie said:


> My question is, did doctors, pharmaceutical companies deliberately push, prescribe and overprescribe these highly (evidently) addictive medications, when others would have done as well. Were they pushing this to simply sell a boatload of new medicines, or to create addicts that would be customers for life?


I can just say, from dealing with my daughter's syndrome and the pain involved with it for the last decade and a half or so, every time we've told a doctor that she can't or doesn't want to take a certain drug, they move along. We've probably seen literally hundreds of doctors, of all specialties, in that time, and not one has pushed anything that we said we didn't want.

I think we're well past the point where patients can claim ignorance of the risks, as well. They're either genuinely in need of the drug and are willing to take the trade-off, or they just want to be high and don't care about the risks. Maybe 20 years ago we could blame the doctors and pharmaceutical companies, but it's kind of to the "blaming big tobacco because I started smoking" point now. IMHO of course.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Mish said:


> Well that stinks. As far as I know most insurances don't cover it, and depending on what you use and how often it can get pricey. My daughter's runs us about $80 a month, and that's with a medical card, which isn't taxed here (recreational is, though).
> 
> So dumb that they're still criminalizing possession even as they're moving toward legalizing. I never understand that. At least Ohio seems like they decriminalized most of it while they're working on getting it fully legal and running.


Just curious: can't you grow it yourself? I thought it was legal to grow for you own use in California?


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Lisa in WA said:


> Just curious: can't you grow it yourself? I thought it was legal to grow for you own use in California?


Me personally? It is legal at the state level. Our particular problem is that it's not legal at the Federal level and...um...one of the adults in my immediate family/household works for an alphabet agency that happens to exist to crack down on drugs. So we buy as legally as possible it through the state laws, crossing our T's and dotting our I's as much as we can, instead of possibly getting that person in serious trouble by having plants on our property. The state of California is fine with it, the Feds absolutely are not.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Mish said:


> I can just say, from dealing with my daughter's syndrome and the pain involved with it for the last decade and a half or so, every time we've told a doctor that she can't or doesn't want to take a certain drug, they move along. We've probably seen literally hundreds of doctors, of all specialties, in that time, and not one has pushed anything that we said we didn't want.
> 
> I think we're well past the point where patients can claim ignorance of the risks, as well. They're either genuinely in need of the drug and are willing to take the trade-off, or they just want to be high and don't care about the risks. Maybe 20 years ago we could blame the doctors and pharmaceutical companies, but it's kind of to the "blaming big tobacco because I started smoking" point now. IMHO of course.


As far as patients not being ignorant, I don't think we are there yet. As long as people take doctor's word as pronouncement from On High, people will continue to do what a doctor says. Another thing, if it's your first time to go for a certain illness, the doctor prescribes medication - how do you know it's the best thing for it?

Yes, a person needs to be responsible for his own well being, as far as possible, but sometimes you just can't know.

Also, it does not in any way absolve the doctor and pharmaceutical company, of some pretty dastardly things.

I stay away as much as possible, I question, and I never leave a loved one alone in a hospital.

A pharmacist once told me if I needed to know about drugs, ask a pharmacist, because doctors don't really know. They know what it is supposed to treat. He was old school, so maybe pharmacists don't really know today.

Actually, how many people, even knowing the risks today would start smoke if a doctor prescribed it for them? I think you would find some takers.


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## In The Woods (Apr 27, 2017)

keenataz said:


> Please note in no way am I judging. If you read my posting you'll note that I said I believe once a chronuc patient is stabilized, maybe 3 months, they should be given prescriptions with more renewals.


I agree 100%. My wife doesn’t want to keep on taking meds like this.

We have gone to many specialists over the years. This has been going on for over 10 years now. She has a permanetly damaged sciatic nerve from a back surgery over 10 years ago. There is nothing anyone can do to fix it and the nerve will never heal on its own.

She has also seen numerous pain docs all with the same conclusion.

So there is no such thing as being stabilized. This is an ongoing and lifelong chronic condition with no recourse. This has dramatically changed both our lives. She was only 47 when it happened. I’ve spent most of our savings on doctors over the years. Now facing retirement any and all plans are out the window.

I didn’t think you were judging - sorry if I came off with an offensive tone. I just want everyone to understand that there is still a need for some people - not a want.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Trixie said:


> As far as patients not being ignorant, I don't think we are there yet. As long as people take doctor's word as pronouncement from On High, people will continue to do what a doctor says. Another thing, if it's your first time to go for a certain illness, the doctor prescribes medication - how do you know it's the best thing for it?
> 
> Yes, a person needs to be responsible for his own well being, as far as possible, but sometimes you just can't know.
> 
> ...


I do agree with you that a lot of people are entirely too willing to go along with anything a doctor suggests, drives me crazy. I was mainly saying that I've never experienced a doctor doing more than suggesting something. When the suggestion was turned down, they moved on to something else, no pushing involved. I mean we've seen a LOT of doctors and we've never encountered a pushy pusher of pills. I can't believe I'm actually sticking up for doctors here, either, most of them grate my nerves!

Absolutely pharmacists are the way to go if you need really detailed interaction information, rather than trusting doctors. However, most of the drugs we've tried or denied we decided ourselves with a quick google search. Most people into middle age and younger know how to do simple, quick research - even on the spot in the doctor's office on their phone - about whatever a doctor is prescribing. Elderly people, yes, I could see this being a problem as it's a whole different way of doing things, but at that point I'd hope you'd have enough life experience to know not to just trust someone because they're carrying a stethoscope (my Grandmother - 94 this year - is the one that screeches at all of us "kids" not to be in the hospital alone, it's funny you mention that  ). It's just getting harder and harder to rationally deny responsibility as a patient, especially with the existence of the internet and the overwhelming media coverage right now.

I feel badly for addicts in some respects, and I can "get it" to a small degree, as a former heavy smoker of over 25 years. I love smoking. LOVE it. To answer your previous question, I'd be a taker if my doctor told me to start smoking  lol But, seriously, I realized it was killing me and would eventually take me away earlier than necessary from the people that I loved that still need me. I also realized that I was the one that was shoving that cigarette in my mouth and lighting it 20+ times a day, not the Marlboro Man. That's the place any addict needs to get to to be able to stop. Blaming other people for getting you started (even if it's true) only encourages the victim mentality (which for whatever reason, a lot of addicts seem to have) and provides a rationale to keep abusing yourself. Again, all IMHO of course.

*Edit because I just saw In The Woods' post. I want to clarify I am talking about addicts. I am not talking about people who need to take medications for chronic conditions. Two completely different classes of people.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Mish said:


> I do agree with you that a lot of people are entirely too willing to go along with anything a doctor suggests, drives me crazy. I was mainly saying that I've never experienced a doctor doing more than suggesting something. When the suggestion was turned down, they moved on to something else, no pushing involved. I mean we've seen a LOT of doctors and we've never encountered a pushy pusher of pills. I can't believe I'm actually sticking up for doctors here, either, most of them grate my nerves!
> 
> Absolutely pharmacists are the way to go if you need really detailed interaction information, rather than trusting doctors. However, most of the drugs we've tried or denied we decided ourselves with a quick google search. Most people into middle age and younger know how to do simple, quick research - even on the spot in the doctor's office on their phone - about whatever a doctor is prescribing. Elderly people, yes, I could see this being a problem as it's a whole different way of doing things, but at that point I'd hope you'd have enough life experience to know not to just trust someone because they're carrying a stethoscope (my Grandmother - 94 this year - is the one that screeches at all of us "kids" not to be in the hospital alone, it's funny you mention that  ). It's just getting harder and harder to rationally deny responsibility as a patient, especially with the existence of the internet and the overwhelming media coverage right now.
> 
> ...


I'm not, in any way judging people who need medications, even those who get addicted. Also, I can see how the addiction might be worth it - if it stopped the pain.

My problem is with the doctors and pharmaceutical companies.

I agree, no way cigarette companies were to blame. It's different in that no doctor was pushing them on you. For another most of us have been around people who smoked and we knew just from observation that it was addictive, it made you cough, and worse. So I agree, no one can blame the cigarette companies for their plight.

I will say this, though, my Mother an my Father both smoked and so many more people in my life, and cigarettes just smell worse than they used to. I'm not sure what it is, but today's is just bad.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Forcast said:


> Well Have not taken my pain meds for 4 days now..hurt alot...so when is this withdraw suppose to happen. Just wanted to see how bad it will been. Sure didn't do any thing around the place.


It is happening right now.
If you're not nauseated with chills and headaches, you got lucky with the withdrawals.
The body aches and pains will continue a few more days, then the pain should level out.
Try some meditation and deep breathing exercises, other light exercise like walking, if you can. Also tell yourself it's not that bad and picture pleasant thoughts.
That last bit is NOT me trying to be facetious.
My wife is a pain coach and teaches these techniques to her clients..........over months, to "retrain" the nerve paths that have been used in your pain.
I just gave you the crash course in 5 minutes.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

farmrbrown said:


> It is happening right now.
> If you're not nauseated with chills and headaches, you got lucky with the withdrawals.
> The body aches and pains will continue a few more days, then the pain should level out.
> Try some meditation and deep breathing exercises, other light exercise like walking, if you can. Also tell yourself it's not that bad and picture pleasant thoughts.
> ...


Thank you for giving some constructive help. I've watched a couple of close friends go through this after being on pain meds due to injuries.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

no really said:


> Thank you for giving some constructive help. I've watched a couple of close friends go through this after being on pain meds due to injuries.


Me too.
My wife was on Percocet and Vicodin for about 10 years after major neck surgery, several vertebrae are screwed to a titanium plate now.
She took Oxycontin after the surgery as directed and it almost killed her. I think she just couldn't tolerate it.
I watched her all that time going thru life like a zombie and dropping to less than 100 lbs.

She finally found this program started by a woman with severe disability and chronic pain as well, became a client and then a coach. She's upstairs now writing her monthly reports on the group she has.
The concept is simple and similar to rehabbing stroke patients.
Old nerve paths are left behind and you train the brain to use new ones to use your body parts to function.
Women have an advantage over men because their brain hemispheres have more connections, that's why women recover speech and limb function faster than men after a stroke, but anyone can do it with lots of practice.
Another analogy is like a rutted road, that's how your nerve paths get after years of chronic pain. You're stuck in the ruts and it doesn't get better. So you make a new "road" and travel with less pain.
Yes, LESS pain, not NO pain.
That's important.

Whether people believe it or not, and experience has shown that most everyone DOESN'T believe it at first, your pain level is due in a large part to the use of the opioids themselves. Whatever trauma occurred years ago has already healed, but your brain craves that daily dose.
If you try and stop it, your body says "NO" in a big way, so you keep taking the pills.

My wife has pain daily, but the level is less than it was. By that I mean, the pain level she felt as her pain pills wore off every 4 hours when she was on them.

There ARE other alternatives, some surgical and everyone should investigate the options and decide what works for them.
But that's my point, there ARE other options and if someone is reaching a dead end, it may be time to choose another path.

ETA
Just in case the thought occurred to someone after I wrote this..........no, she's not in it for the money. She does it cuz she likes it and is good at it. I think she has a 100% success rate so far. 
I've tried to get her to do the math but she hasn't wanted to.
As far as I can figure, she spends about 20 hours or more a month coaching and might make $200 on a good month.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

farmrbrown said:


> She finally found this program started by a woman with severe disability and chronic pain as well, became a client and then a coach. She's upstairs now writing her monthly reports on the group she has...


farmrbrown, do you mind sharing what the name of the program is, if it's not just a local thing? My daughter is interested in looking into alternative pain management systems since she doesn't respond well to traditional pain medications.



Trixie said:


> I will say this, though, my Mother an my Father both smoked and so many more people in my life, and cigarettes just smell worse than they used to. I'm not sure what it is, but today's is just bad.


Oh, they smell like heaven to me. Seriously, I stop sometimes walking through a cloud of smoke and inhale deeply and enviously lol Talk about addicts...


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Mish said:


> farmrbrown, do you mind sharing what the name of the program is, if it's not just a local thing? My daughter is interested in looking into alternative pain management systems since she doesn't respond well to traditional pain medications.


Sure.
I'll send you a PM with a link.
It's nationwide and for the clients (patients) it's all by phone, conference calls and 1-on-1's.
You don't have to leave the house.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Mish said:


> farmrbrown, do you mind sharing what the name of the program is, if it's not just a local thing? My daughter is interested in looking into alternative pain management systems since she doesn't respond well to traditional pain medications.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, they smell like heaven to me. Seriously, I stop sometimes walking through a cloud of smoke and inhale deeply and enviously lol Talk about addicts...


They used to smell much better - really.

I have just watched a couple of YouTube videos on the drugs. 

Both stated there are 250 million prescriptions for these type drugs. Somehow that makes me think some people are getting more than one prescription.

Truly, I have great sympathy for those who need those drugs, even for the ones who get addicted. Once again, it isn't the people that bother me - it's the doctors who prescribe it when something else might work, and the pharmaceutical companies that pushed it so hard.

Again, they tried to give my Grandson percocet for a cut on his hand. He's 21 years old, in great physical condition. The cut wasn't large, a few stitches. I'm glad he had the sense to say no.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Trixie said:


> They used to smell much better - really.
> 
> I have just watched a couple of YouTube videos on the drugs.
> 
> ...


Oh absolutely there are people who get multiple prescriptions. Doctor shopping is definitely a thing. Knowing what I know, I'm positive I could walk into a pain clinic and convince them I have some sort of serious pain going on and walk out with a prescription. Then I hit the next place on the list, rinse and repeat. It hugely impacts actual pain patients as well, because every single time someone with chronic pain asks for pain medicine, immediately suspicion is aroused and you're interrogated like you're a criminal (talking about going to new doctors here, not ones you have an established relationship with) - or even ending up in the ER, seriously treated like criminals or crazy people every time because the first assumption is that we are doctor shopping, almost always. Not to mention now having to take drug tests and pee tests every time you go in to prove you are actually taking your medication and not selling it. Makes people who need help feel like criminals. Probably why I have little empathy for addicts, you're ruining it for those who need it.

Doctors are caught between a rock and a hard place. I'm sure they want to help the people that actually need help, but you've always got to also deal with people (addicts) who are gaming the system. I'm talking about real doctors, not the pain pill mill doctors. Another part of the over-prescribing for one-time injury type things is the satisfaction surveys - a lot of patients get ticked off if they're not given something for pain and complain or give bad ratings (we've had more than one doc tell us this just in conversation). It's a really stupid system. We can't treat healthcare like every visit deserves a Yelp review or you're going to end up with tests you don't need and pills you don't need because doctors are afraid of losing their jobs or getting sued. Seriously you're killing me here making me stick up for doctors lol


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## HeavyHauler (Dec 21, 2017)

Irish Pixie said:


> There have been quite a few deaths associated with kratom, including a NY police sergeant last fall.


There is a ton of bull**** in that linked article.

The only deaths associated with kratom are the ones where the kratom was mixed with other drugs. It's not an opiate, it contains no opiates whatsoever. It's not like cocaine either.

Do some research on it. And dosing it is easy. Don't over do it, less is better. But use what is effective.

There's a reason they want to make it illegal, it hurts their bank accounts. It can help with opioid addiction and does. It can help relieve some pain and relax you; nothing like heroin at all, and it can be a mild stimulant like coffee or tea; not like cocaine like it was suggesting.

I was an addict 4 years ago; opiates, heroin and cocaine. I'm totally clean now. Well in 3 days it will be 4 years, the day my first kid was born.

I wish people would actually do some proper research into things.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HeavyHauler said:


> There is a ton of bullpoop in that linked article.
> 
> The only deaths associated with kratom are the ones where the kratom was mixed with other drugs. It's not an opiate, it contains no opiates whatsoever. It's not like cocaine either.
> 
> ...


What linked article? I didn't link an article on kratom, and only stated that a NY police Sargent died due to it last fall.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Lots of news articles this week on kratom. Looks like government is making it a "drug".


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## tlrnnp67 (Nov 5, 2006)

No words....

And this comes from our chief lawyer. 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/jeff-sessions-says-people-apos-193024259.html


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/a...ounter-drugs-well-opioids-study-shows-n846401


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

True to form, the govt effs up everything it touches.
They've decided that Americans have a problem with opioids and that it's the govt's job to fix this problem. 

So, here's an analogy of how they're going about it:

Suppose there's a big increase in people attempting suicide by slitting their wrists. The Masterminds in DC decide the way to fix it is to make it harder to buy razor blades....when they should be investigating why these people are so depressed that they want to commit suicide.

Mild narcotics like codeine & hydrocodone are extremely safe when used even regularly by those without addictive personalities, while OTC NSAIDs are extremely dangerous (cause kidney & liver damage and GI bleeding) when used regularly by anyone.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com...sian-herb-that-acts-a-lot-like-an-opioid/amp/


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

My some helps a group that gives care to wounded soilders. The crackdown on pain medications had started 3 to 4 months ago. In just the last 3 weeks 2 have committed suicide. My son found one. He hung himself on his body lift cord. Sad just sad. I see this happing more.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

doc- said:


> True to form, the govt effs up everything it touches.
> They've decided that Americans have a problem with opioids and that it's the govt's job to fix this problem.
> 
> So, here's an analogy of how they're going about it:
> ...


And some chronic pain patients, my daughter specifically, find absolutely no pain relief with NSAIDs and will begin to suffer internal bleeding with just one recommended dose. 

I know you're not supposed to wish bad things on anyone, but I really wish the people making theses decisions had to spend just one day in the kind of pain some people suffer with their entire lives, so they could see how idiotic and unhelpful their ideas truly are.


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## In The Woods (Apr 27, 2017)

Mish said:


> And some chronic pain patients, my daughter specifically, find absolutely no pain relief with NSAIDs and will begin to suffer internal bleeding with just one recommended dose.
> 
> I know you're not supposed to wish bad things on anyone, but I really wish the people making theses decisions had to spend just one day in the kind of pain some people suffer with their entire lives, so they could see how idiotic and unhelpful their ideas truly are.


Exactly!

For the past 10 years when I ask my wife what she wants for her birthday - her response is always “a pain free day”. People who have not experienced chronic pain have no clue what it is really like.


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