# An outhouse question, i.e. how does it work exactly?



## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

I know how they work, you dig the hole, make sure it has proper and adequate ventilation, etc. My question is when using lime... I don't know what it does to the waste. When you sprinkle the lime down the hole, and it gets on the solid 'stuff' and tp, does it dessicate it, dissolve it, or what? I know that sounds terribly ignorant, I've just never had a good understanding of what it does exactly. 

The reason I ask is that when I eventually move to my property, I am going to have to get a privy permit and build a privy (already checked into the permit, it's not too expensive) to use at least for a while. I just want to make sure I understand how it all works.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

My understanding is that lime is used for odor control. If you have a properly constructed/managed composting toilet there won't be enough odor to worry about. If you are talking about building an old fashioned outhouse......I'd rethink that idea. A composting toilet is SO much better. Outhouses stink...really bad and they always have gnats, flies and other bugs.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

I disagree with TsGypsy. I grew up on an old farm with an outhouse. It did stink in the heat of summer when you got right up next to it, but we didn't have a problem with flys, bugs, etc. I'll have to ask dad what he put down it to keep the flies and the smell to a minimum. We got electricity & running water when I was about 15.


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## uncle Will in In. (May 11, 2002)

The Gov toilets the WPA built during the depression all had a cardboard sign on the wall that said. DO NOT PUT LIME IN THE TOILET PIT. These toilets had concrete walls around the upper part of the hole, and the hole was at least 6 feet deep. They worked like a septic tank to allow the bacteria to eat the waste.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

We'll have to agree to disagree  I used an outhouse yesterday so this is especially fresh in my memory. Unfortunately there is a limit to how long you can hold your breath! Pewwwww Next time I'll find a bush!

Check out sawdust toilets. I used one for several years and may start using one again soon. Worked really well for me.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

We used an outhouse here for the first 18 months and we sprinkled Sweet PDZ instead of lime in the pit to neutralize the ammonia and the outhouse was relatively stink-free. Sweet PDZ is used in horse stalls and sold in feed and ranch stores.


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

Thanks Lisa, I will look into that product. I think I'll be like your situation, using one temporarily, for several months. 

Composting toilets are not an option due to the cost, but maybe sawdust, I don't know. I just know that due to the remoteness of the property (nothing like city sewer for miles and miles, probably 50+ miles away) and my ability to pay for septic right off the bat, I'm going to opt for an outhouse to start with.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Be careful of where you locate the outhouse in comparison to your well. You could end up with contaminated well water.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

RoseGarden,

You should check out the book The Humanure Handbook (sawdust toilets). It is actually a decent read and very informative. 

When I was little we had an outhouse and I don't really remember it smelling or having bugs. We use to put our wood ashes in it. I do however remember meeting a few scorpions on the way to the outhouse, worrying that something was IN that pit that was going to possibly bite me, worrying about falling into the outhouse, and having to go outside in the freezing cold rain. I'm not against an outhouse but I like the humanure method better.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

Check out these links. You might also do a search on 'sawdust toilets'. Lots of folks use these. Some people get downright fancy and decorative with em. Shoot I can't afford one of them high dollar high fallutin store bought composting toilets either  

http://www.weblife.org/humanure/default.html

http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/sawdustoilet.html


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## doohap (Feb 23, 2003)

Out at our farm we use the "bucket" ... a portable loo! It's a regular 5-gallon bucket with a toilet seat with cover. We put about an inch of hardwood mulch in the bottom (though sawdust, hay, wood chips or some other absorbent material have been used when available). After each "deposit" we cover the waste (and t-paper) with a little more mulch. When the bucket is full we dump the contents into a compost pile and cover with a layer of hay or mulch. Believe me ... we have NO problem with smell or flies from either the "loo" or the compost pile. When the compost pile is fair sized, we start another one next to it (just as you would regular composting) and let the original one sit. After about a year I've got great compost for my flower gardens. I do not use it on vegies. 

Of course, this is only a temporary set-up until we can get our house finished and composting toilets installed. But it works GREAT!


doohap


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## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

Bucket cheaper and easier at start if more work along the way. 

My grandparents' outhouse always smelled of Chlorox- guess Grandma poured a lot down there. The whole area where they had their outhouses (moved it when full to a new spot and filled in the top of the old one) is still a sort of wasteland- dead trees, low growing grasses (but perhaps this is normal for that area of SD), boggy areas I'm nervous to walk over (but unsure about the bogginess now 20 years since their last outhouse).


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Hereâs the answer to your question. Lime is alkaline, in other words, it raises pH. Another example of a material that raises pH is lye (donât use lye in your outhouse). The purpose of lime is to raise the pH of the waste so high that bacteria cannot survive. You see, bacteria are responsible for the odors....especially anaerobic bacteria. Anaerobic bacteria decompose waste and release all kinds of odorous, volatile gases. If you kill the bacteria with lime, there will be no, or minimal, decomposition and thus, no odors. One more thing.....make sure the type of lime that you use in your outhouse is âbarn limeâ (calcium hydroxide), not agricultural lime (calcium carbonate). Wood ashes that have not been wetted or stored for more than a month or so will also raise pH.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

IF your out house stinks its because the ventilation stinks. An out house should work like a fireplace. It draws air through the hole and exits out the chimney. You do have vent pipe don't you. Go look at a porta potty. A good one doesn't stink even with out the tablets. Unless its overused. Not likely on a homestead.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

TNHermit said:


> IF your out house stinks its because the ventilation stinks. An out house should work like a fireplace. It draws air through the hole and exits out the chimney. You do have vent pipe don't you. Go look at a porta potty. A good one doesn't stink even with out the tablets. Unless its overused. Not likely on a homestead.


A vent pipe in an outhouse has to be correctly placed in order to vent properly. This is done by making sure that the bottom of the vent pipe is at a higher level than the toilet seat. If this is not done, the sewage gases will vent out the toilet opening rather than the vent pipe. To accomplish this, some outhouse designs use an open cylinder that extends from the toilet seat downward into the hole to a level below the bottom of the vent pipe. Other designs use a two-level platform above hole in the ground. The toilet seat is placed on the lower level of the platform and the vent pipe starts on the upper level.


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

guess we never had a outhouse tight enough to worry about vent pipes. and--has no-one ever found that snakes just love a outhouse?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

When I was a kid, early teens, we spent our summers putting up hay way up in the Sandhills.
We had an outhouse...just an outhouse for the serious business.
The thing I hated about it most was the wildlife involved. Spiders the size of saucers, flies, mice, etc.
This outhouse of course didn't have any lights.
I remember one night, long after the camp had bedded down, I was making use of the facilities, the only light coming through the cracks in the door. Suddenly, something _slithered_ across my foot.  
I don't mind saying, I finished up pretty fast which ain't easy with your feet off the floor. (No leverage I guess, try it if you don't believe me.)
Anyway, I know that doesn't answer your question, but it's about my only outhouse story. :shrug:


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## IowaLez (Mar 6, 2006)

We had an outhouse for years when we were homesteading. No bugs or smells. You put your fire ashes in it after using it, one scoop per use. In a pinch we'd use lime, but ashes are preferred.


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## palani (Jun 12, 2005)

Cabin Fever said:


> ..., the sewage gases will vent out the toilet opening rather than the vent pipe. ...


Bad word! Sewage is a toxic waste. It needs to be and is regulated. If you have sewage you need to handle it properly.

Night soil, on the other hand, is not regulated and can be considered property (helps vegetation grow).


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

palani said:


> ....Sewage is a toxic waste....


No, it's not. Where'd you ever get that idea?


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

Something folks forget is outhouses and portapots are designed for no eletricity , theres no reason not to use it if you have it. So be generous with lights a heater and most of all a fan or two!


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

Would buying a porta pot cost much? neverseen them sell ,have a cousin inthe business maybe ill ask him


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Even if you aren't ready to pay for the permit, check to see what their requirements are. While most old time, and a few newer, out houses were simply a pit that required moving when it got filled up, more and more communities are requiring a concrete tank that mist be pumped out when full. If your first step is a hole in the ground and the second (legal) step is a concrete tank, you might want to have different locations or you'll be digging thru your poop. If the legal requirements are likely going to beyond your means for a long while, you may want a location that can't be seen from the road.


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

Thanks CabinFever and others for the answers. Very informative, and much appreciated! I never knew exactly what the chemical reaction was, although I figured there must have been one. Yes, I know to get calcium hydroxide, the right kind of lime. Also knew about the ventilation requirements, it's pretty simple mechanically speaking, just a ventilation system that draws well.

I'm not concerned too much about insects, I figure I'll be in there often enough and check first, which I have always done when using one anyway :baby04: 

I also thought about putting a water barrel on top of a platform beside the facility so I can have a sink to wash my hands, that is one thing about outhouses that has always bothered me... I had to wait until I got back inside to wash my hands. (I am OCD about hand washing  )

Electricity will be added also, that's within my own ability to do. I wired my permanent greenhouse and shed, so a light in the outhouse shouldn't be a big deal.

My land is very secluded, there are ranches all around, I think the smallest ranch is two sections across (640 acres per section? 620? I misremember..) Water will be via catchment, at least for the first year or two. Wells are mighty deep out there. I have viewed two catchment systems in nearby towns, one at a house in a very small town, and another on a ranch which they use for their house and some of their gardens. Ossum possum systems which I plan to duplicate if in a smaller size. The one at the little house was so cool, it used a rock cistern beside the little house which dated probably from the mid 1800's. 

Anyway, thanks guys for your help and information, and the funny stories. I will definitely plan to keep watch for bugs.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

We never had any problems with bugs but with 2 adults and 2 kids using it, they didn't have a chance. Where are you moving RoseGarden?


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## DrippingSprings (Sep 22, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> When I was a kid, early teens, we spent our summers putting up hay way up in the Sandhills.
> We had an outhouse...just an outhouse for the serious business.
> The thing I hated about it most was the wildlife involved. Spiders the size of saucers, flies, mice, etc.
> This outhouse of course didn't have any lights.
> ...



LEVERAGE lmbo lol Man o man I needed a good laugh and you gave it..thanks. But you do speak the truth. 

On a similar note Ive also been told by an old man if you grease a dogs anus he cant bark cause he cant get a grip LOL watch a dog and he puckers each time he barks so who knows? I didnt ask cause I was afraid he would tell me why he had greased it in the first place lol

We were rich folks at my grtgranpas. He had a double seater. He had nine kids so he made a extra spot so it would cut down on the wait lol


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)




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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

Gays IL is famous for a two story out house that still stands there.


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## palani (Jun 12, 2005)

Cabin Fever said:


> No, it's not. Where'd you ever get that idea?


Sewage is the liquid waste produced by humans which typically *contains washing water, faeces, urine, laundry waste and other liquid or semi-liquid wastes from households and industry*. It is one type of wastewater.
*In advanced countries sewage collection and treatment is typically subject to local, state and federal regulations and standards.*

There are sewage systems, sewage treatment plants, a septic tank is used to treat sewage near the source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewage_regulation_and_administration


> Sewer systems in the United States *are regulated by multiple agencies on the local, state, and federal levels*. Federal agencies such as the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), state agencies such as the Department of Health Services of various states, and local agencies such as regional pollution control boards, all have an interest in the quality of water discharged from sanitary sewer treatment plants. At a minimum, sewer treatment plants must protect the health and welfare of the local population by ensuring that raw or primary treated wastewater does not contaminate the local potable water supply. At a maximum, certain agencies (such as those located in the Lake Tahoe watershed) must treat all inflows to tertiary standards, and then pump all treated water out of the drainage basin so that no effluent ever drains to a certain body of water.
> 
> Regulating agencies can compel sewer treatment enterprises to construct improvements to their plants by requiring higher standards in effluent quality. If not in compliance with regulations, sewer enterprises may be subject to heavy fines. Regulation is therefore often the driving force behind increasing sewer treatment costs in the United States, and is directly linked to the high cost of constructing or expanding a sewer treatment facility.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightsoil


> Night soil is produced as a result of a waste management system in areas without community infrastructure such as a sewage treatment facility, *or individual septic disposal*. In this system of waste management, the human feces are collected in solid form. Night soil is a euphemistic term for intentionally collected human feces.


Again, if you have sewage the state, county or city are going to regulate you (quite properly). Sewage contains other substances than urine and feces. It contains soap, detergent, gray water, industrial wastes. Regulations are written specifically for sewage and not so for night soil.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Palini, there is nothing that you have quoted in the preceding post that would indicate that sewage is a toxic waste.

Your definition for "night soil" is what I call "sewage sludge" or biosolids or septage, depending on source and degree of treatment. These materials are regulated by the feds and states.

(P.S. I review the design of and regulate sewage treatment systems for the State of Minnesota.)


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Cabin Fever said:


> .
> 
> (P.S. I review the design of and regulate sewage treatment systems for the State of Minnesota.)


Hey CF, do Minnesotans use the old "bury the junked car and use that as a septic tank" method that is so popular here in N. Idaho?


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

So CabinFever, does the design for the outhoue submitted by Boleyz conform to state of Minnesota standards? Hee hee hee! :baby04: Yeah, I have to admit I'm goin' for the moons and stars and all the rest. If you're in for a penny, might as well be in for a pound. I figure hollyhocks too (ladies will probably know why hollyhocks were planted around the outhouse)

Lisa, I'm going to be moving to north central Tx one of these days. I have the little house design, some building materials stored away (nice windows, doors, some other things) and almost have enough $$ saved to have the slab poured. I am starting off by doing it the right way, even if it costs more and takes a little longer, I want my little house to be something I can leave to someone when I die. It's very scenic where my land is, something in between hills and small 'mountains', lots of live oak, cedar, cottonwood, etc. I wanted to get up there and take pictures of the wildflowers this spring, but don't know if I'm going to get to or not.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

http://www.tumbleweedcrossing.net/OuthouseMoon/


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

There's an old Buick with a sunroof buried beneath our outhouse.


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## idahodave (Jan 20, 2005)

Hey CF wouldn't that be a moon roof?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Cabin Fever said:


> There's an old Buick with a sunroof buried beneath our outhouse.


Hay! Isn't that your one room guest cabin?


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

You two guys are cracking me up!


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## Arkander (Jun 8, 2006)

Cabin Fever said:


> Palini, there is nothing that you have quoted in the preceding post that would indicate that sewage is a toxic waste.


Perchance I am looking too deep into what Palini is saying,
but I think it was a play on language....

If you ask the local Gummint about dealing with your "sewage"
you are going to get a stack of regulations dropped on you.

If you "just" dealing with your night soil, the Gummint
won't have much to say. (Yeah, right!)

Then, maybe I am seeing something that isn't there.

Palini?


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## Farmerwilly2 (Oct 14, 2006)

I want to know what kind of car: Outhausen 1000, a Poop DeVille, or a dump truck. 

On a more serious note, CF, can you do a good 'Heya Ralphie Boooy' ?


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## palani (Jun 12, 2005)

Arkander said:


> Perchance I am looking too deep into what Palini is saying,
> but I think it was a play on language....
> 
> If you ask the local Gummint about dealing with your "sewage"
> ...


Bingo! Not really a play on language as much as a commentary on how language has changed from a time when outhouses were common to the present where septic tanks (or old buicks) are used as part of a system of sewage. 



Cabin Fever said:


> Your definition for "night soil" is what I call "sewage sludge" or biosolids or septage, depending on source and degree of treatment. *These materials are regulated by the feds and states.*


As you point out, night soil is not regulated.

As to toxicity
http://www.ecochem.com/ENN_sewage_sludge.html


> Recently a portable toilet company in Hillburough Ontario has outraged the community with a plan to pour the refuse from the toilet rental company on the top on a hill that is surrounded with homes. The portable toilets use formaldehyde, a hazardous chemical that is used for embalming fluid, and nonylphenol ethoxylate, a chemical that is associated with disruption of the endocrine system, to deodorize feces in the toilet.


Sounds toxic to me!!!!!!!!!


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

How can I argue with that logic? You are absolutely correct. And, Mother's milk is also toxic if you add formaldehyde and nonylphenol ethoxylate to it.

BTW, everything I know about sewage I've learned from experts...like the guy I'm sitting next to in the photo below:


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## palani (Jun 12, 2005)

Cabin Fever said:


> How can I argue with that logic? You are absolutely correct. And, Mother's milk is also toxic if you add formaldehyde and nonylphenol ethoxylate to it.
> 
> BTW, everything I know about sewage I've learned from experts...like the guy I'm sitting next to in the photo below:


Did you know water is toxic if you add it to scotch?
You can always tell a Norwegian but you can't tell 'em much


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Cabin Fever said:


> How can I argue with that logic? You are absolutely correct. And, Mother's milk is also toxic if you add formaldehyde and nonylphenol ethoxylate to it.
> 
> BTW, everything I know about sewage I've learned from experts...like the guy I'm sitting next to in the photo below:


That looks kinda like the guy from Red Green.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Farmerwilly2 said:


> I want to know what kind of car: Outhausen 1000, a Poop DeVille, or a dump truck.


Ok, that was funny.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Cabin Fever said:


> How can I argue with that logic? You are absolutely correct. And, Mother's milk is also toxic if you add formaldehyde and nonylphenol ethoxylate to it.
> 
> BTW, everything I know about sewage I've learned from experts...like the guy I'm sitting next to in the photo below:


NO WAY.... NO FAIR... NO HOW....DANG !!!!  MY second favorite person next to Red


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

OMG, that's hilarious. I always think of the ending of his little spiel... "...and pizza delivery"


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> That looks kinda like the guy from Red Green.


Come on Cornhusker, that is Winston Rothschild III from Red Green. I keep good company, dontchaknow.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

The third addition Humanure book is available online for free down load.
http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/humanure_contents.html
Read it. You don't need to go to all the trouble of digging a hole. And you can make great fertilizer.


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## moonwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

picture of one of the outhouses I built from local white cedar. Put stain on it once when first built about 15 years ago. This photo taken last year. 

as for bugs. A hornet nest once was built inside when we weren't using the outhouse much that summer. Be careful about black widow or brown recluse spiders that might happen to find your outhouse a nice place to stay.


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## e.alleg (Jan 13, 2006)

My advice: when nature calls, dig a hole. poop. cover the hole with dirt. If you need better than that get a portapotty for a while. In almost all localities they will require a septic tank for you outhouse, and with that expense you may as well connect it to an indoor toilet.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> Hey CF, do Minnesotans use the old "bury the junked car and use that as a septic tank" method that is so popular here in N. Idaho?


Please tell me you're joking......please.....


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## MountainRonda (May 18, 2006)

When we built our outhouse, my daughters and I didn't like the idea of sitting on top of an open, dark, gaping hole. So we used the toilet out of and old trailer. It's the RV type with a foot pedal that opens the flapper. We have to use rise water and it's more trouble to keep clean, but worth it for the peace of mind.


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

Now _that's_ an idea....


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

e.alleg said:


> My advice: when nature calls, dig a hole. poop. cover the hole with dirt. If you need better than that get a portapotty for a while. In almost all localities they will require a septic tank for you outhouse, and with that expense you may as well connect it to an indoor toilet.


Not here they don't. Sheesh, you need to get out of New York more.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

There is a whole website and discussion forums for out houses here

http://www.jldr.com/faqs.html


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

Dig a hole and poop? No thanks. I prefer something to keep the rain off when necessary. Where my property is, no regulations except the privy permit to be paid, and that just because it's easy money for the county. There's nothing for miles around my property, except more land and some cows. 

Thank goodness not everything is so heavily regulated here as it is in other places...


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

moonwolf said:


>



That looks nicer than some houses I've seen.


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## Smallhold (Jan 26, 2007)

Good thread, got me thinking. In a couple of months I'm moving to a house that has an outhouse attached to the existing house. In the annexe that's built on.
The cesspit receives kitchen- and bathwater too.
Will it smell real bad? It gets emptied out by a company when full.


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## Randy Rooster (Dec 14, 2004)

This thread cracks me up with all the old wives tales and misinformation some of you spread. My wife and myself have been using an outhouse every day for the past 2 years-sure they have some smell right after a good use- so does an indoor flush toilet- thats why all those bathroom deoderizers are sold. Crap stinks, its a fact of life. How much it stinks depends on what you eat. We dont eat meat so we dont have decomposing meat being deposited into our privy - it doesnt have much smell. We dont use any lime and only a bit of sawdust and happily feed the fly larvae ( not housefly) in the hole because they are the ones that break the waste down, ridding it of bacteria and smell, and the more they eat the less often I have to dig a new hole and move the privy.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

At a resteraunts "Liars Club " table I found out I have some neighbors that use a old freezer Im not sure if it was a chest or an upright but they said it was very warm and draft free place to sit till pa decided it needed some head level ventalation and took a 12 gage to it.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

OK- Boleyz, a picture of the INSIDE now!

Patty


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## Paul Wheaton (May 10, 2002)

Excellent thread!

So it seems that lime is a bad idea - cuz it keeps the microbials from doing their job.

And ... as with regular compost .... if you can smell it, add carbon. I would think that TP makes a good carbon source. And so does sawdust, straw, dry leaves, etc. Sawdust probably makes the most sense.


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