# Leash training a Great Pyrenees and stopping egg hiding



## RTinFL

Hi all,
We just got our first LGD. A 13 month old Great Pyrenees. He is an intact male, about 75 lbs, very loving dog. He was on a farm with his mother, brother, and father. He was in with goats, chickens and turkeys. We have him in a 2 acre pasture with free range chickens (soon goats). He is very warm. When we come in to see him, he comes up and lays down in front of us and rolls to his back and wants his belly scratched. He is a bit jumpy and shy, but we've only had him a few days. 

Along with being a LGD for us, he is a pet. My family would like to take him for walks. When we put a leash on him, he hits the ground and will not move. We tried a pinch collar, and that was disastrous. He pulled, jumped, cried, and wouldn't move. Any advice?

Also, we've caught him taking eggs. Not eating them, but moving them to various places. It is like Easter morning.  Advice?

In advance, thanks much for any advice!


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## motdaugrnds

The only information I can give (from personal experience) is that the behavior that dog is showing is a sign of subservience to humans as its pack leader. (I personally would not want that messed with, though I do believe it may have been overdone by past owner.)

I've trained dogs in simple obedience "without" the leash...using small bits of food; however, it is a time-consuming process. I'll be watching this thread hoping to learn from those with actual experience with this breed.


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## RTinFL

motdaugrnds said:


> I've trained dogs in simple obedience "without" the leash...using small bits of food; however, it is a time-consuming process. I'll be watching this thread hoping to learn from those with actual experience with this breed.


He is funny that way, he will not take any treats. If he does he will set them down and then go back to them later when we walk away. Food doesn't seem to be a motivator for him.


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## Cheryl aka JM

Thats exactly what he is doing with those eggs to. Somebody has told him not to eat eggs....so he is putting them away to eat when no one is watching. I've never succeeded in breaking an egg eater. I have convinced most of my dogs not to eat eggs when I'm looking.....one dog will eat the egg and then throw herself down to accept the scolding she is gonna get. The only answer I've found for egg sucking dogs is put a door on the chicken house the dog doesn't fit into. He doesn't need to be IN the chicken house with the chickens he just needs to be around the chicken house so nothing else gets IN the chicken house with the chickens. 

Also~ don't trust a 13 month old dog alone with the chickens. He's a bit young for that much trust and chickens are REALLY fun....and you often find egg treats inside too!

Walking on lead. He needs to trust you. Give him time, lots of praise when he is standing and visiting with you. When he rolls over to submit and you don't want him to don't scold him~ just turn around. Don't bend down to pet him and reward him on his back if you want him to get up and walk with you~ just stand up and turn your back. As he learns to trust your not angry at him he will stand up as soon as you begin ignoring him. Eventually he will learn what you want but you'll need to be consistent. And.... I might suggest you don't really want him learning it is ok to leave the boundaries of his property. Maybe you need to play with him in his boundary and get another dog to be the walk about pet....lots of dogs at the shelter would love to have that job for your family!


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## RTinFL

THANKS for the advice Cheryl! I was thinking that we might need to change the door set up. I was hoping not to have to do that but.... there we go. 
One other piece of advice I got was to blow out an egg and fill it with cayenne pepper or hot sauce and leave it laying around. Your thoughts?

Good news is we have been doing exactly what you said with the rolling over issue. We don't scold him, but we do stay standing upright until he stands up and then we praise him and pet him. Also, you are exactly right with the turning around. He fairly quickly gets up and moves in front of us... he may lay down again and we have to repeat this 3 or 4 times... but that works. 

The wife is allergic to dogs, so we can't have a dog that comes in the house... but we will see. Thanks again for the advice.


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## terradura

What if you put the leash on him but didn't hold it? Just let him get used to having it attached. Then after he is comfortable with that, move to holding the leash and petting him. Then after a few days slowly ease into little walks around your property. Maybe doing this over the course of a few weeks would set him at ease with the idea.


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## Cheryl aka JM

Ive trained a couple pups by letting them drag the leash at first so it might work, but only do it supervised so he won't get caught up on something and hurt himself.

Dogs have fantastic sense of smell. I was told the same thing about filling an egg with tabasco, but not one dog has ever fallen for it at my house. Good luck!


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## RTinFL

It was funny, when I put the leash on him, he acted like it weighed 500 lbs. He just laid there with his head to the ground. That may be the first step, and just let him get use to it. I think I will wait for a while though. Build the trust up longer first.


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## RTinFL

Cheryl aka JM said:


> Ive trained a couple pups by letting them drag the leash at first so it might work, but only do it supervised so he won't get caught up on something and hurt himself.
> 
> Dogs have fantastic sense of smell. I was told the same thing about filling an egg with tabasco, but not one dog has ever fallen for it at my house. Good luck!


LOL worth a try. I just called my wife and she put a bench in the doorway that the chickens can walk under but he can't. He could go over it, but I don't think he will. I think I will end up making a small chicken door.

Thanks again.
r


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## terradura

RTinFL said:


> It was funny, when I put the leash on him, he acted like it weighed 500 lbs. He just laid there with his head to the ground. That may be the first step, and just let him get use to it. I think I will wait for a while though. Build the trust up longer first.


I have to smile at your description of his reaction! Just have to wonder what is going through their minds. You are right to build up trust first. That is most important. Hope it all goes well.


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## Maura

I would not encourage the belly rub. When he rolls over for a belly rub, step away and pat your leg to get him to follow you.

For walking on lead there are a couple of things you can do. In your situation, I think I'd clip the leash on, have him sit, put his dinner down. When he's finished eating, unclip the leash. If he likes to sit in the car, call him over to the car, clip the leash on, let him in the car. Take leash off when he gets out of the car. You get the idea, leash = good things. Always just take a few steps with him on the leash. This way, you can keep a loose leash and he learns that leash time means being close to you.

After a couple of weeks of the above, walk around the house or other enclosed area on leash. Again, leash means being close to you. Outside, clip on leash and in a few steps take him where he wants to go, another few steps for where he wants to go. You don't present a situation where he will pull. From there, feed him breakfast out of your hand as you walk around. Even a dog that is not food oriented will want food if he is hungry. When he hits the end of the leash, walk in the opposite direction so he has to follow you, reward with more breakfast.

This dog needs to be on a high quality kibble and a vitamin C supplement to help his bones finish growing. Do not put a prong or choker on him. If he is going to be in the house you want to be able to point to his "place" and have him lie down there, so pick a spot. He also needs to sit at the door before you open it.

It does take a couple of weeks for a dog to get comfortable in a new environment. He could change a lot in the next few days.


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## Rock

Here is a very good piece by W.Snell on pinch collar training. 
_(Remember proper position of the collar makes a huge differance, you want it at the top of the neck as close to the skull as you can get)_
How I Use Pinch Collars for Dog Training

You use a pinch collar like a choker chain except, you do not yank on it. I like to start out with "heel" and walk in a big circle, and go kind of slow the first few sessions. It is important to keep your hand/the leash in the same location so that the dog walks into the pinch. Therefore, it is easier if you hook your hand over a pocket, belt or whatever so that the leash stays in a fixed position. That way the dog learns to judge the proper position more quickly. If you hold the leash close by one time and then a foot away the next time, it make it difficult for the dog.

After 2-3 sessions I start making tighter turns, then go to go to a box, and then a figure 8 and I begin to vary my pace etc. If the dog continues to forge ahead after several sessons as some will, I start making a 180 when he does. Pinch collar fit is awful important. You can add links and take out links to get a good fit. You want pinch collars loose enough that the dog doesn't feel any pressure when he is in the proper position. You want a pinch collar tight enough to pinch him when he gets out of position.

Each dog is different and you have to be a little more forceful with some. The dog is more sensitive high up on his neck because there is less muscle. I put my pinch collars right below the dog's ears on stubborn dogs. Initially, however, I like to let the dog get used to the collar before applying pressure. If the dog is wearing a regular collar, I put the pinch collar in front. You have to check frequently to be sure the prongs aren't catching on the regular collar. It won't work if they do.
- Warner Snell


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## motdaugrnds

These are exciting times for you. I love training pups and hope you enjoy training yours.


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## RTinFL

Thanks for all the advice. I've rigged the coop to keep him out. I've also decided to wait a few more weeks to put the leash on again. Now if I reach for the leash he heads out in the field. Will build the trust up longer then try again. Tomorrow is bath time... wish us luck!


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## mekasmom

I don't know if anyone else has said this, but just hook a leash to him and let it hang. Let him drag it around. He will learn that the leash is ok, and get use to it. Then, after he isn't afraid of the leash, just hold on to it, let him walk where he wants, and follow him. Eventually, you can hold the leash and coax him to follow you. 
LGDs are a bit different types of animals too. They aren't "trick" dogs. They do what they want to do. I know, I can tell ours to sit. If they want to sit they will, if they don't they won't. If I have a treat in my hand, and tell them set, they do it every time. They understand the word, "sit". But they only do it if there is a good reason to do it (in their mind). Food is a good reason to them.

But teaching one to walk on a leash is the same way. He has to want to follow you, and not be afraid. So let him get use to the leash. Then let him lead you. Then coax him to follow you while you hold the leash with words or food treats. And after all that, he will learn to walk on the leash.

There is a reason lgd are not agility dogs. And you have discovered it. They just aren't obedience type dogs.


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## RTinFL

Just a follow-up. We've tried the " just hook a leash to him and let it hang. Let him drag it around." and he is SO STUBBORN! He will sit in the middle of the field like he is on a stake... he will not move. If he takes a few steps, he walks backwards dragging the leash. Then he will just lay down. Like an hour, stiff body just staring at the leash.


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## terradura

Wow. Can you tie a short piece of rope instead of a whole leash? Is there some length that doesn't bother him? If so, maybe start with that and gradually increase the length.


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## Maura

This is why I wrote to clip on the leash and feed him. Every time. Somebody ruined him for the leash and it will take time to get him to accept it.


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## DaniR1968

I think you are on the right track with leash training. You just have to be patient.

You did mention you want to take the dog on walks. It is my understanding you don't walk livestock guardian dogs in your neighborhood or they will think that is supposed to be patrolled


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