# Where do I turn to?



## Aint2nuts (Feb 18, 2008)

My daughter is 10. 

She is two years behind in reading. She is a year behind in math. Her AIM scores show her 'on target' for both. HOWEVER. 

Whenever I teach her something, she just doesn't get it. I am trying to teach her long division. She just can't do it. I have explained and worked with her, and when I work with her she does it step by step and it seems like she has it. Then she will sit there for an hour, do just one problem (wrong)...not tell me she is having problems... and then cry when I ask her why she didn't come to me to tell me she was stuck!

IT doesn't matter what she is working (any subject) it takes her FOREVER. IT takes her 8 hours to do what my other two do in three hours. 

Where do I go for help? 

SOme background. She was drug exposed in utero. We think prior to getting her she was shaken by her birth mother. She had epilepsy until she was about 4-5. She went to public school until November of last year when I pulled her out. She was held back in first grade and should have been held back in third grade. She was in title one for both math and reading. 


She was crying tonight saying she was 'stupid'. I have never said something like that too her. She just knows that she is working slpw and having a hard time with it. 

Where do I go to get help?


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Have you tried different methods of math? 

Are you involved in a home school group - moms there would know better what is available for you locally.

We have Sylvan learning centers here. According to your state homeschooling laws you might also get help through the public school system. Look for your state home school association and they will be able to tell you what the public schools can do for you- you might have access to their school psychologist and testing. If you think your daughter has learning disabilities, it would be good to have her tested so you will know what it is you are facing with her, what teaching methods would work best, etc. 

For now, I wouldn't go through the hastle- give her 2 math problems to work a day. Let her read 1 section of something. Let her feel successful. With my DS who struggled with math early on, I only had him to 2-3 problems and after each one that he got right, we stood up and did a dorky little cheer - complete with clapping and hip swings. If anyone would have seen us, I would have died. But he loved it and got past feeling like he "just couldn't do it". 

Good luck.


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## halfpint (Jan 24, 2005)

I would suggest having her tested. Check with your local home school group leaders to see if they know of anyone. There is a man in Tennessee that does testing on students - after testing he recommends the curricula that would be most appropriate for each subject for each student. He often travels to locations and tests groups of students, I've had several friends who have used him and they say he has helped quite a bit, but I can't remember his name - although I just e-mailed a friend to send it to me.


Edited to add: The man who does testing is Dr. Paul Cates and his website is: http://www.faithchristianmin.org/ I have a friend who is trying to get him to come to our area this spring. Everyone I know that has used him raves about him.

Dawn


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

Would writing down the steps to long division help her?

Make a list like this:

1. Divide
2. Multiply
3. Subtract
4. Bring Down

Then work through 10 or so problems slowly with her emphasizing the steps. Then she can refer to the steps when she's working independently so she doesn't "get lost".

 RedTartan


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## Mid Tn Mama (May 11, 2002)

Get some good fun software that will allow her to have fun and progress at her level and let her play 1/2 hr every day. I suggest math blaster and any learning company software and jumpstart products.

Next, look at starfall.com which is a remedial reading website designed for daughers like yours. Progress through the phonics and the fun games at the end of each step.

I have many other ideas but will post later. I would like to leave you with this. Every child comes to the learning table at different places. They should be accepted for who they are and loved for the gift that they are to us. Love her through her struggles and be sure to find things she enjoys and excels at so that she can feel successful. These things are the door to learning. EX. She likes horses. You supplement with books about horses. You research the anatomy of horses. You count the number of teeth on a horse and do math that compares the number of bones in a horse compared to a human or a dog. Do you see?

Take a deep breath and hug her tightly. More later...


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

She's having focus issues. If she can do it when you're there to guide her through the steps, it means she *can* do it -- the problem isn't that she doesn't understand HOW, it's that she can't keep her mind on the task.

The fact that you said she had some birth challenges to overcome is a huge clue. Has your child ever been tested for ADD, ADHD, etc? When we think of these disorders, we think of that wild kid in the class who won't settle down -- but that is only with the profound hyperactivity cases. ADD can affect children who are quiet and happy to sit in their seat and daydream -- or stress over the fact that they aren't able to concentrate. Your disappointment and frustration is just making the problem worse. NO matter how much you think you're not showing it -- she's sensing it if it's there.

I've been there. So please don't take my questions as offensive -- I just want to help.

Nutrition -- how much water does she drink? What is a typical day's diet for this child? Has she always (since you got her) received PROPER nutrition, or did you have to cater to established tastes that she refused to budge from? Tell me what you feed her, what she drinks, and what she snacks on, and when.

Does she have any other physical issues? Diabetes? Was she drug-addicted when you got her? Had she been, and did she go through detox as an infant? Does she have any physical limitations? Either birth defects or injuries that would cause her to be considered "challenged"?

Has she ever been to an Occupational Therapist or physical therapist of any kind? You've already mentioned that she had a difficult beginning -- did it include a traumatic birth?

Are the tips of her ears or nose reddened? Does she have rings around her eyes, a wrinkle or crease across her nose or over her eyelids, or whiteness or a blue tint around her lips? Does she ever speak as though her tongue is too large for her mouth? Does she have excessive drool when she sleeps, or does does suffer from a stuffy nose often?

All of these things can be signs of issues that will affect her ability to concentrate. I can give you some pointers to reading material that helped us, if you feel any of this is applicable, but really the best thing to do is be patient, tell her you love her and the reason you want to home educate her is not because she's a failure or stupid, but because she has the potential to learn great things, and you want her to have the opportunity to do it all.

Then, take the pressure off and go at her pace for a little while. It's amazing what you can learn about their learning style by simply watching how they choose to do certain things.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> She's having focus issues. If she can do it when you're there to guide her through the steps, it means she *can* do it -- the problem isn't that she doesn't understand HOW, it's that she can't keep her mind on the task.


While I understand where you are coming from, I would like to respectfully disagree that being able to do it with help every step of the way means she can do it.

My sister had an enormous amount of trouble with school. She just graduated high school a couple years ago, and I honestly don't think she could do long division if you asked her to right now. (Reflects poorly on the school system, eh?) She will call me to check when she needs to go back to work from a 45 minute break. She didn't get tubes in her ears until she was 4 or 5, and before that had a lot of trouble hearing which really delayed her speech and comprehension. She was checked for learning disabilities but they never really found anything.

When she was learning anything in math, she would be able to understand those simple broken down steps like adding two digits or dividing simple numbers. The concept of what order you did those things in and why was completely lost on her. And every concept she had learned needed to be refreshed frequently or she would completely loose it.

When you sit down and go over things together, as hard as you may try not to, it is difficult to avoid giving big hints for what is supposed to come next. That can be good if it is helping build confidence, but it can also make you think the child has a stronger grasp on the topic than they really do. 

Are you using manipulatives at all? They can really help with understanding "why" and show you different ways to look at the problem. I would also focus on the things she can do well to boost her confidence.

I've heard mixed reviews on places like Sylvan, more bad than good. I would recommend getting testing for learning disabilities done, and also testing to see what way your daughter learns best. (Visually, orally, etc.) I hope she starts feeling better about this stuff soon.

Kayleigh


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

******* said:


> While I understand where you are coming from, I would like to respectfully disagree that being able to do it with help every step of the way means she can do it.


I didn't say "help", I said "guide". There is a world of difference between keeping a child on task, and "helping" them find the answer to a question. It's not a matter of saying "and now we divide" -- it's a matter of saying, "what's next on this problem?" and keeping their attention ON the problem, rather than on the ceiling, out the window, or on whatever they can hear going on in the next room.

I agree that some children have a difficulty with the concept of WHY we divide next, or multiply, or subtract, when we're supposed to be doing a division question, etc., but that doesn't, at first glance, appear to be the problem here. The OP said that the child takes hours to do what her other children had no problem with -- but can do the questions when she is kept on task. That suggests to me a focus issue, rather than a comprehension issue.

Of course, the OP knows her own child best, and hopefully the information here will help her figure out exactly what is going on, and help her.


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## cindy-e (Feb 14, 2008)

"...or on whatever they can hear going on in the next room." Tracy, for my highly distractable daughter, headphones playing classical music was the key to solving this one. She can't focus unless she can block out the background noise. This is what she does all day every day to get her school work done. Without it, she would take 4 hours to do one subject! 

Hope that helps someone else with distraction issues.

Cindyc.


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## Aint2nuts (Feb 18, 2008)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> The fact that you said she had some birth challenges to overcome is a huge clue. Has your child ever been tested for ADD, ADHD, etc? When we think of these disorders, we think of that wild kid in the class who won't settle down -- but that is only with the profound hyperactivity cases. ADD can affect children who are quiet and happy to sit in their seat and daydream -- or stress over the fact that they aren't able to concentrate. Your disappointment and frustration is just making the problem worse. NO matter how much you think you're not showing it -- she's sensing it if it's there.


She hasn't been tested for add. I know she isn't ADHD...my son IS and they are like night and day. 

Yes I am frustraited. Trying to hide it doesn't work. I get frustraited when she doesn't come to me and tell me she is having problems. She used to sit in her class at school and do the same thing. I just need to check in with HER more often.



Tracy Rimmer said:


> Nutrition -- how much water does she drink? What is a typical day's diet for this child? Has she always (since you got her) received PROPER nutrition, or did you have to cater to established tastes that she refused to budge from? Tell me what you feed her, what she drinks, and what she snacks on, and when.


Each of the children are encouraged to drink a lot of water. We got water bottles and they fill them up constantly...and steal mine sometimes. 

She has always had proper nutrition since I got her. I took a nutrition class in college and I use the pyramid for chosing foods each day for the children to eat. 

a day might include:

granola with yogurt and fruit for breakfast, sometimes juice, sometimes milk. 
sometimes a cereal with milk. Sometimes pancakes with fruit. 

midmorning snack of fruit or veges wtih dip

lunch is usually soup and half a sandwich (meat, lettuce, tomoto and cheese)
sometimes vegetables soup (my kids love it). 

mid afternoon snack is usually cheese and crackers, or cookies and milk, cheese crackers with peanut butter... etc.

dinner is meat, vege. or two. starch, dairy. 

When she was little she had problem eating things with 'yogurt/soft textures' she couldn't get them from the front of her mouth to the back and she would gag. 




Tracy Rimmer said:


> Does she have any other physical issues? Diabetes? Was she drug-addicted when you got her? Had she been, and did she go through detox as an infant? Does she have any physical limitations? Either birth defects or injuries that would cause her to be considered "challenged"?


She had epilepsy, but it wasn't treated with drugs. They were petit mal seizures, and I hated to drug for for her 'staring spells' that she would have. 

She would shake constantly when I got her. Her little body would just shake and tremble all over. I would bundle her and it was better. She was a quiet baby most of the time. Luckily her mother was in jail the last two months of the pregnancy so she wasn't born with drugs in her system. 

She didn't talk until she was two. However that might have been because she has two siblings close in age to her, that talked A LOT for her. She said Mama, and she said Dada and that is it. She had speech therapy until she was 3, probably should have gone longer, but we moved to another state. 

She was tested at 2 and she tested up to a year 'behind' in many areas. 



Tracy Rimmer said:


> Has she ever been to an Occupational Therapist or physical therapist of any kind? You've already mentioned that she had a difficult beginning -- did it include a traumatic birth?


I don't know anything about her birth, other than it was a 'normal vaginal delivery'. 



Tracy Rimmer said:


> Are the tips of her ears or nose reddened? Does she have rings around her eyes, a wrinkle or crease across her nose or over her eyelids, or whiteness or a blue tint around her lips? Does she ever speak as though her tongue is too large for her mouth? Does she have excessive drool when she sleeps, or does does suffer from a stuffy nose often?


nope to all of the above. 



Tracy Rimmer said:


> All of these things can be signs of issues that will affect her ability to concentrate. I can give you some pointers to reading material that helped us, if you feel any of this is applicable, but really the best thing to do is be patient, tell her you love her and the reason you want to home educate her is not because she's a failure or stupid, but because she has the potential to learn great things, and you want her to have the opportunity to do it all.
> 
> Then, take the pressure off and go at her pace for a little while. It's amazing what you can learn about their learning style by simply watching how they choose to do certain things.


Thank you!


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

It sounds like you've got the nutrition aspect covered. It might, of course, be a behavioral allergy, but honestly, it doesn't sound like it to me -- there are still physical signs that are often present -- like the reddened nose and ear tips, etc., which she doesn't have. The "staring" is something we've dealt with with our son since infancy, it isn't epilepsy, though -- it's a symptom of his SID. You might do some reading on Sensory Integration Disorder, as it may helps you understand her better, as even though that isn't her diagnosis, much of the reading material on it gives coping strategies for the SYMPTOMS, and one of the most frustrating for parents seems to be the blank stare off into space. A particularly good book is "The Out of Sync Child" by Carol Stock Kranowitz. 

Another REALLY good book is "Is Your Child's Brain Starving?" by Dr Michael Lyon. 

It's also possible that her hormones are beginning to kick in and exacerbating the situation. 

I'm not a doctor, I'm just a parent who has gone through this, and done a LOT of research on it for articles I've written in past. The best thing I can suggest is, if you are concerned that there MIGHT be something more going on, it might set your mind at rest to see a professional. Try your regular GP, and see what they think.

Good luck -- I know it's frustrating, but she is so much better going through this in the security of your home, with you there to comfort her when she needs it.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Hi Aint2Nuts. When we adopt our children from uncertain backgrounds it can really be a challenge. We adopted our DS when he was 8 months old. We do know the birthmom was drug free at the time of the delivery. When Ds was 2 yrs old we realized he was having some problems. He didn't start talking till he was 5 yrs old. Needless to say, he's behind his peers on most things, but he is catching up. Work with her where she's at. Give her just enough of a challenge that she has that sense of accomplishment, but don't push her to the point she feels like a failure. Most kids with LD's wind up with a low self-esteem, and that will reflect in every aspect of their lives. Set her up to succeed.

My DS struggles with reading and math. He had such a hard time grasping phonics, so I tried so many different programs that it almost sent us to the poor house. I would get frustrated because I felt I was failing him. He sensed my frustration and would make comments like, "I'm a zero". I realized then what I was doing to him, unintentionally. So I slowed it down. I bought some Dick and Jane books and let him learn some sight reading. Then I found a wonderful phonics program called "Explode the Code". This was a major breakthrough for us.

Math was another issue. My DS has poor short term memory. He would get it one day and then the next day it was gone. He's also a very kinesthetic learner. This year I found a program that has really made a difference in his math. It's called "Math U See". It uses blocks to teach them. The blocks are color coded, so it gives a visual as well as a hands on approach to learning.

DS is 10 yrs old and is doing 3rd grade work right now, but we don't have the frustrations we use to. Remember this if you don't remember anything else, if our kids get so frustrated they aren't learning, then we aren't helping them. If it's too hard, make it easier. I use to try to get DS "caught up" with his peers. Well, he's not caught up and I know longer panic about it. He'll get caught up when he does, if he does. If not, I will teach him what he's capable of learning and find things that interest him and help him develop skills that will help him make it in this world. He may never go to college or become a rocket scientist, but he will like himself and respect those around him.


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