# Argg! This mule!



## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

So, how can I get this beast some exercise so she'll calm down? 

I've had her about a month. She's 3 1/2 and broke to ride. When I got her, they were riding her 10 miles a day and claimed she had more than 250 miles on her, but also said she's still green. Ok, fine, no problem, and I believe the guy. She's also been driven consistently the whole summer.

I got her home and had a borrowed saddle. I rode her the first day no issues, the second day, she bucked me off. Yikes. Well, aside from being in a new environment the saddle probably didn't fit right. I have a mule saddle coming next week. In the time between then and now, I've hand walked her a lot, and done other things on the ground to build trust and she's getting there. But she doesn't yield to pressure and I am having a hard time getting her to. I know she understands, she just don't wanna.

She's broke the fence twice, and escaped, she paws the gate, paws the ground when tied, etc... She's bored I'm sure.

Last week when we were feeding cows, she stepped over the wires on the ground and began running amok in the cow field. We watched her, she was fine and she got to run off some steam. Two days later, after doing some ground work, I let her in the cow field again so she could run around. Thought it was a great idea. Not! 

She decided it would be more fun to chase the cows, so away we go. Stampede, one cow jumped the fence into the neighbors yard and she cornered one of my longhorns and bit her on the rear. Well, no more running in the cow yard.

She don't lunge, she won't run on a lead rope, and frankly, until I can knock her down a few notches I'm afraid to get back on her once she is accustomed to the saddle thats coming. She's gonna either buck me off or take off like a rocket. 
She's just too hot and needs exercised before being ridden again.

Anyone have any suggestions?


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Lessons with a trainer familiar with mules.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Is she turned out? Do you have other horses to turn her out with? Sounds like that might be what she needs.

At 3 1/2, I wouldn't assume she "knows" anything. If they were "riding" her by putting her in the middle of a group of horses on a trail, that wouldn't be even close to thinking she knows how to be ridden. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the "training" she's been given so far....so naturally when you got on her without a group of horses to follow she was confused and anxious.

Why do you think she knows how to yield to pressure? I just wouldn't be sure she really knows until you see her demonstrate it. I wouldn't think pawing the ground means she's bored (unless she's being tied for a long time?)....I would wonder if she'd ever been tied before?

I think I'd probably give her 24/7 turnout and start all over with her....

Sellers lie, and they also have different standards for "green broke". I saw an ad the other day for a green broke horse on Craigslist. When you read further it said "has been saddled". Ha! Now that is really green!!


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

Personally I would have never choosen a 3 1/2 year old mule especially if this is your first experience with a mule (maybe it's not). Mules are smart and she is just a baby in the mule world. I learned mine HATES being stalled. She would rather stand in the pouring rain then go in her stall. She does use it on rare occasion she will sleep for a hour or so in there. So a big pasture is a must for a young hot mule. Mine is 15 and I must say I got lucky and it was just dumb luck as I well know.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Wow, love how the worst is automatically assumed here.

She has never been stalled and isn't now. She is out on pasture all the time. I have no other equine and thats not likely to change so she'll have to get over that part of it. I understand its an adjustment for her. 

The man did not lie. I wouldn't have stated I believed him if I didn't have good reason. Her 'training' wasn't trail riding in a group. I'm not that ignorant about things. For the most part, I know exactly what she's done. I never said he claimed her green broke. He said he would consider her still green because she was young. He also went further to say he didn't want me to think she was finished because she still had a ways to go. 

I also said she had been driven consistently the whole summer. If she's been driven that much, she's been tied.

I knew what I was getting into. I looked for a very long time before I chose this one. One of the reasons I settled on her was due to the amount of experiences, equipment and situations she had been exposed to for her age and I liked the fact that she had not been passed to 4 or 5 different owners already. 

Of course I've seen her yield to pressure. How else could I make that claim? She's done it for me and for two others in my presence on multiple occasions. She just doesn't wanna. I completely understand this is due to her age. 

I realize that starting over with her might be necessary and its a good idea anyway so she can learn to yield to me and learn what I want.
However, it seems to me if I can help her burn off some energy prior to daily groundwork, she may be more receptive and responsive to what I am asking of her.
I know she's just a puppy, what I need are some ideas to get her some more vigorous exercise before she explodes and mows me down.


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## txplowgirl (Oct 15, 2007)

I assume you don't have an automated horsewalker. That would get rid of some of that energy. I've only had horses never had a mule. But if she learns she can buck you off she will continue to do it. I'm sure mules are much like horses when it comes to that. 

All I can say is spend time with her every day and try to keep her active. 

Good luck.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

You have to get her attention first. 
Then you can teach her something.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

pancho what would you suggest?

She comes to me willingly, is very easy to catch and is very tolerant of being 'picked' on in a friendly and up-close and personal manner. But she has ants in her pants.


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## Witterbound (Sep 4, 2007)

Expect a long, long fight. My mule pushes down fences, gates, me, whatever is in front of him to get to another equine. He is extremely heard bound, buddy sour. And if he doesn't have a buddy, he's nervous, pushy, and hard headed when I handled him. I have no idea how to change this. He now lives his his horse buddy, and he's fine. Sorry I don't have any answers.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I've only owned one mule and ridden/worked with one other mule. Both were well trained and other than being difficult to catch, had no issues so I can't offer any advice about mules specifically. I've only worked with horses, so these ideas may or may not be useful for your mule.

You don't say what kind of feed she is getting, pasture only? hay? grain? If she's not already on grass hay I would put her on it ... not sure where you are, but wouldn't have her out on green grass and wouldn't be giving her any grain.

You said she was being ridden 10 miles a day by the previous owner when you got her. If we had a ranch horse that was being worked like that and was suddenly 'on vacation' for a month, we did expect they would buck, especially a young horse. A horse in that kind of working condition has a lot of energy and if they are suddenly kept up with no exercise, it can be a pretty explosive situation.

Since you can't ride right now and don't have another quiet animal to pony from, you really need to figure out some way to lunge her. Do you have a round pen or access to one? That would be the best way to teach her to lunge and the best way to get her exercised. Hand walking a horse/mule that is used to being ridden/worked for 10 miles a day is not going to provide the exercise needed. The breaking out of the fence, pawing when tied, etc. is not boredom, it's a physically fit animal jumping out of it's skin because of the confinement and lack of exercise. Absolutely no different than a hyperactive child that is being told to sit in his room and be quiet ... not going to happen.

I really don't see this situation improving unless you can figure out some way to get some mileage on her.


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## Bluegrasslady (Jul 11, 2012)

Miles are smart maybe chase some jolly ball? Or perhaps start clicker training her to do some trick like bowing to occupy her little brilliant bored muly mind??


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

SFM I agree with you completely, which is the reason for the post. I know she is suffering from energy explosion. I need some ideas to get her working before attempting to ride her again.

I do not have a round pen, but am trying to figure out a way to rig one up. She will not lunge on a line. She simply turns and stares at me. I can click and tap and pop the ground, or tap her with the stick all I want. She don't go. The most I will get out of her is she will move sideways a step or two, but will not turn and walk, period. She would rather come to me and stand with me. She don't like to stay away.

She's getting grass hay only. The only live green she gets is when I'm walking her out. Never grain. I know better. I bring her a small treat usually once a day, such as a windfall pear or one day I gave her a skittle. Only one. 

Adding, I've been sacking her out with different things everyday to try and keep her interested. She's in with goats and some yearling highlands, so there are other creatures. She's not totally alone. As far as teaching her to bow? That's a little out of my league.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

maybe try driving her again. If its what she is used to it may be a good may to gain her trust and respect.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

If she won't lunge, try ground driving her with long lines instead. Since she pulled a cart this summer, she should know how to ground drive.
Also, I'd contact the fella you bought her from to ask for his opinion on helping her calm down. Do you have any other equines nearby? Equines don't typically like being the only one with long ears for miles.

Good luck! Cooler weather makes everybody frisky.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> Wow, love how the worst is automatically assumed here.
> 
> She has never been stalled and isn't now. She is out on pasture all the time. I have no other equine and thats not likely to change so she'll have to get over that part of it. I understand its an adjustment for her.
> 
> ...


I didn't assume the worst...I only commented based on what you wrote! No need to be so defensive; if you had read what you wrote, you probably would have made similar comments. 

In a dog obedience class I once took, the trainer stated that it took 100 *correct* responses to a command (in a row) to say that the dog has "learned" something. One wrong response, and you had to start again. I think the same is true of most animals; and children, for that matter....whether 100 responses or 25 or 50...but the point is that one wrong response means you start again to make sure they do know it.

At her age, she is a project, in every sense of the word. Change the scenario, and you are starting from scratch again. 

A hotwalker is a great idea; ponying from another horse as well; free lunging in an arena or round pen.... I think for young horses the mental activity is just as important....so even doing simple clicker training for basic things (lower head, step back, etc.) is useful to channel that energy.

Good luck.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Have you called the previous owner of the mule, to ask questions?

Mules are "special" and you need to be careful that you are not teaching them the wrong stuff, in trying to work with them. They DO NOT FORGET ANYTHING!! Good or bad, once they see or do something, they will keep it in their memory bank. They don't think or react like a horse will, so most tricks for horses are fairly useless on a mule.

Mules WILL chase and hurt other animals if they are put out together. They will run cattle, calves and colts until they fall exhausted if given the chance. Mules LOVE having a companion equine, so it can be difficult to get one happy at being kept alone. You can keep them alone, mule just won't be happy about it.

Have you read any mule literature about training or handling them? Most of it involves coaxing the mule to do as you wish, because being harsh, fighting them only makes things MUCH worse. Mules DO carry grudges and WILL get even, eventually, at the worst possible moment! It is VERY EASY to spoil a nice young animal or ruin it for the future you plan for him by doing some wrong training steps. They don't think like other animals, so you won't get the reactions you expect.

Getting some training information from the American Donkey and Mule Society has been helpful to friends of mine. Those folks have been helpful for a lot of years. The home page is;

Love Longears!

I would suggest you call the phone number, talk to them for prompt information. Maybe suggestions for the best helpful DVD or book to work with your animal.

We had a mule once. She was a nice mule, but she was SO different than horses in every respect. We got her as a foal, she led, tied, came when called, stood for trims and vetting, loaded into the trailer. She NEVER would lunge on a line, would NOT be led from another horse, even if we dallied the line and dragged her along. You could lead her about anyplace though, by walking beside her. She LOVED the horses. But then as an early 2yr old, she did a series of things that TOLD US we were NOT dealing with a long-eared horse, and she would NEVER be horse-like in her reactions. She got sold, was high selling mule of the sale. Buyer tracked us down later to see if we had MORE LIKE HER!! We were shocked, but he LOVED her, was a true Mule-man in being able to communicate with her well. He said she was working out really well for him, only one incident in plowing the garden where she tried to runaway, got tangled in harness, fell down. He TIED her so she couldn't get up, did a LONG lunch while she thought about her error. When he came back, got her up, she would NOT get out of the path between the tomato plants to step on ANY plants while cultivating, was GREAT in the garden after. Had no other issues with her. This was great progress, since we sent her to the sale unbroke, and this call was only about 6weeks later!! We decided that we just were "not worthy" to be mule folks, never bought another.

If she has pasture to move around in, then it is her choice if she moves enough to really exercise. I haven't heard a lot about mules working in round pens. I would think that like lunging, mule would think going in circles is a rather useless way to do things. Most mules prefer getting their tack on and going to work, so it can be hard to "burn off the energy" before actually getting on.

Perhaps you can get the mule guy to come visit SOON, watch how you do things, to give you pointers. He can suggest corrections for mule trying to be dominant to you. You need to get the herd status worked out fast, with you being dominant or mule will be running you out of the field. Mule doing the 10 miles a day ridden or driven sounds excessive for such a young animal. Bones and joints are still rather soft, easy to hurt them with lots of miles at that age. They are not fully mature until age 6yrs or so, to be worked hard. Pay the mule guy for his time to visit, give you a handling lesson at your own house where the problem is happening.

The nicest working mules have owners who don't believe the mules are "stubborn". Those owners believe the mule is not doing as requested because mule doesn't fully understand the request. Owner needs to figure how to get mule to understand better, be confident in the owner asking this from mule, so the request is worked thru smoothly. Might take a little time for a newly purchased mule to be confident in person training him to not ask things that will hurt the mule. These owners are firm with the mules, but not determined "to show him who is boss here!" in their training and handling methods if mule balks. Those folks turn out some really nice working animals.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

you say the mule won't lunge. I'm no expert but in my experience equine can't help but lunge when put in a round pen and properly led. It is part of their instincts to avoid danger so they move forward when you are on their rear quarter. 

After a good half hour of work in a round pen, I've seen my wife take green, stubborn, obstinate critters and make them much more mellow and ready to be worked from the ground or saddle. Horses are lazy and she rewards the horse by allowing them to stop running.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I know mules are really smart and don't forget. You don't make a mistake with a mule. I am kind of the opinion that lunging a mule would be boring and pointless for them, but it seemed to be an easy answer to help her burn off some energy. So I thought. 

I have never owned a horse, so I don't have any 'horse training' experience to spoil training a mule with. My ground driving gear I should have next weekend, so I do intend on doing that. She is very soft mouthed and gives to the bit with the tiniest finger pull. Whoever broke her to the bit did a very good job.

offgrid, have you done clicker with equine? I've used it on dogs years ago, but not often. 

The man I got her from is in very poor health and lives far away. That was the one and only reason he let her go. He wanted to be sure she was in good hands before he became unable to care for them any longer. I do have a friend of his helping me who lives about an hour from here who is an old mule man. His answer is get the saddle on her and go.


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

If I might, throw some ideas out.
Considering her age, I might look closely at getting her in harness till next spring. Don't even worry about the riding.
I'm going to assume that you know how and when to rest an animal. And that she doesn't need to be taught to work in the harness.
Do you have firewood or rocks to haul? She needs a job. You'll probably find that working her hard is going to do alot more for her than just a little riding around a pasture or leading her down the road. You may be trying to become her friend when she's looking for a leader.
Teach her to appreciate the word WHOA. She may know what it means but doesn't appreciate the action that goes with it. 
You aren't working her hard enough unless she is wanting to stop. And when she wants to stop, make her go a little further. Then stop when you say so.
If you don't have a sledge or big logs to drag, get the front tire from a concrete truck or a tractor tire. Wedge some boards across the bottom inside. Drill holes and install a welded eye bolt or a u-bolt in the center or the tread. Fill the center with about 4 or 500 lbs. of bagged sand. The ones like they use to prevent flooding in the spring.
Hitch her up to that. Now she's either going to try and run off with it or she is going to try and convince you that she can't pull it. Which isn't true unless she only weighs 700 lbs.
If she trys to run off with it let her go. In fact encourage her on. When she starts to wear down, ask her to stop. (Don't pull up on the drive lines. They are for steering not stopping.) If she doesn't want to stop and stand, ask her to continue on. You may find this to only be a few more feet. If she trys to stop on her own, before you ask her to stop, encourage her to go until you say WHOA.
You work her till she is in a good heavy sweat. Then start letting off 1 or 2 of those bags of sand each time while she is stopped and standing still. If she won't stand still, it tells me that she still has alot of energy to be worked through.
When you are done, unhitch her and drive her to the hitch rail. Tie her there. If she's standing still in 1/2 an hour, pull the harness and turn her out. If shes figity, drive her back out, hitch her for a couple of more times around the pasture pulling that tire. It won't take as much this time to acheive the WHOA.
Do this every other day for about a month. She might even loose a little weight. Not a bad thing for her to feel that little bit of adversity.
After the month, turn her out for a month and don't touch her, other than general care and feeding.
Then in December start it all over again.
Run this cycle three times. By that time she will be 4 yo. I believe that you will see a totally different animal.
From what you wrote, this mule is at the age that she is too young to be old and too old to be young. And she is feeling in control.
Theres nothing better than a good honest job, to sack them out and teach the unconditional action that goes with the words "WHOA" and "get over".
I'm happy to add more detail if there is something that is unclear.
Good luck.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Thats not a half bad idea. I was of the opinion, that even though she had been ridden, maybe she was a little young and I shouldn't ride her till spring. The man helping me and DH feel differently. They think I should just get on her and ride. I don't think its that critical so long as she is getting exercise of some sort. 

I know alot of mule places teaching packing before they ever getting in the saddle. I chucked my coat at her rump yesterday while we were walking. She jumped, but didn't actually do anything. The coat landed on her and we continued on. Maybe she needs a few lessons in packing.

She does know WHOA, but not rock solid. I'm working on that with her. She stops dead 75% of the time. But she doesn't remain standing still. After about 30 seconds, the ants are moving again.


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## mountainwmn (Sep 11, 2009)

I don't know a thing about mules, but I know that horses can take a long time to settle in to being alone. My paso took about 3 months before he was comfortable and returned to the way he rode when I bought him. Any time you move a horse their attitude can change, and if she was fine to tie before I would guess it may just be stress from being alone. I spent a lot of time taking my boy for walks until he got settled enough that I felt safe to ride him.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> She will not lunge on a line. She simply turns and stares at me. I can click and tap and pop the ground, or tap her with the stick all I want. She don't go. The most I will get out of her is she will move sideways a step or two, but will not turn and walk, period. She would rather come to me and stand with me. She don't like to stay away.


This is not a she will not lunge, and will never lunge kind of thing.
This response means that she has NO idea what you're asking of her, and has previously learned that if she just hangs with people, then she's being a good girl (not a bad lesson)

Since she drives, I would ground drive her. And then really drive her.

If you want to teach her to lunge, you will probably need a helper at first, someone to be at her head and follow your voice commands to Walk On, Whoa, Trrrrrot!, etc. Once she figures out that you're trying to teach her something, you'll see the little light go off in her head.
But, being a smart mule, once she has learned the voice commands, she probably won't see the point to running around in a circle and then you're back at driving or riding.

But you'll both have learned more about each other and become more comfortable with each other, so I would teach her.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Mules will lunge, but I doubt if your mule has been taught to do so. Mules love to learn, and they can either learn good things or bad things, both will stick with the mule equally well.

You teach a mule to lunge the same way you teach a horse except that the mule usually has to think it is her idea, you are there to simply show her the way. 

However lunging a mule may be great for burning off energy but it sure makes one fit as a fiddle. I would get some sort of round pen or arena to work her in so that she can be contained in the event you have another unexpected dismount. Some mules learn real quick if they dump you and run away, they do not have to work any more. and it becomes a habit. a very bad habit.

If you have the skills to build an obstacle course, I would teach her to to do obstacles. that can be done on foot or in the saddle and conditions her to deal with the unexpected without getting in a panic about it. Driving her will also burn off some energy. Riding her at her age is not going to harm her any as I doubt you will be doing 10 miles a day riding like the previous owner. Light rides will be no different than packing a 100 lb. pack as long as you aren't doing rollbacks and sudden sliding stops or jumping, etc. Just ambling along at the walk and trot is not going to hurt the mule. 

I can tell you if she is used to other equines, that being a single mule is not going to make her happy. However, if you buy another equine, then you may have a herd bound, don't wanna leave the barn, mule. Mules can be happy alone as long as they have some other critters around to associate with. However, don't be surprised when she sees horses or donks, etc. that she wants to interact with them. Mules like the company of other equines but can live by themselves with a goat for company (make sure said goat has an escape route as some mules can be aggressive to cows, goats, sheep and in particular, dogs. Some mules will travel quite aways across a pasture to stomp a dog flat so watch your dogs until you are SURE that your mule won't flatten it. 

also, get the mule's teeth checked annually, many folks never think about that, but mules need dental work just like a horse, only a horse may put up with pain a lot longer than your mule will. Mules aren't partial to hurting anywhere and ill fitting bits, bridles and saddles will generally land you in the dirt. Make sure your "mule" saddle actually fits your mule - make sure the bars don't pinch and the skirt doesn't hit too far back in the loin. Just because it is a mule saddle don't mean it will fit your mule same as a horse saddle.

Personally I would just climb right back on when you get your new saddle after making sure it fits, then ride for miles. You may have yourself an endurance mule in the making. What type of mule is she?


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

She is a saddlebred, 15.2 hands and very well proportioned. She is fast, and I mean fast. When I am hand walking her and she is simply walking, I have to fast walk or trot myself to keep up with her. 

The saddle I am getting is a Steve Edwards saddle. 
www.muleranch.com

Except its a used saddle from a private party, very gently used.

I figured when I get it, which should be this week, spend a week putting it on and taking it off so she becomes accustomed again, then ground drive her with the saddle on for a while so she can learn how to respond to my hands. A trust building thing right? Then start riding when she becomes comfortable with my control and comfortable with the saddle.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> A trust building thing right? Then start riding when she becomes comfortable with my control and comfortable with the saddle.


This may sound sarcastic or snippy and I definitely do not mean it that way, I'm just speaking from years of experience with young, green ranch horses and only a couple of mules.

It sounds to me as if the 'trust building' thing is not her issue at all, it sounds like she's perfectly comfortable with the situation and has complete trust in the outcome of the situation. After all, this is what you have taught her so far ... buck, the rider comes off, she doesn't have to work again for two months. From what I've heard from others and my own limited experience, mules learn even faster than horses and I suspect this is what she's learned.

I hope I'm wrong and the mule goes well for you when you get on her again, but with a mule that has figured out how to remove the rider followed by quite some time of what sounds like a very high-energy animal not being worked, it does not sound like a situation I'd bet on for a good outcome for anything but the mule.

I know I'm 70 now and haven't ridden green horses for years, but even in my mid-30s if I had a green horse that dumped me under these circumstances, that animal would go to a trainer that would/could put 10 to 20 miles a day for 10 days before I got back on.


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## Witterbound (Sep 4, 2007)

My mule has never attempted to buck. What he does is rush. He acts nervous and wants to get somewhere fast. I almost always ride him until he slows down because he is beginning to tire (and that takes a long time), in an attempt to let him know that I will stop trying to slow him down by half halts, circling, continuously turning around and trotting away from home, etc, if he'll just walk slowly home. This year I'm even riding him unshod on some rocky roads where he slows down because he steps on a stone wrong. This actually seems to be working better than anything else I've tried. I've been working with my mule for 2 years on this, and I we still don't see things the same way. I used to let myself get angry with him because he wouldn't slow down, then I figured out that he was getting the better of me, and so now I just happily ride unitl he decides to slow down.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Like SFM, I don't want to sound snippy but everything you do with an animal is training them and the first lesson she learned from you is, dump rider = less work.

Regardless of how many trail rides she's been on, she's very young and needs ongoing training and you might want to see if you can get some help in that area before you you have a bigger problem.


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## CheerfulMom4 (May 21, 2008)

I was also going to suggest seeing if you could get some help. I have been where you are. I've been riding horses for 15 years and still find it easy to get in over my head with a young one. Heck I recently had a neighbor help me with my 18 year old arab..she's to smart for her own good sometimes. I've owned 2 mules and realized quick they were a heck of a lot smarter then I am. lol


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

So, get on and hold on for dear life if she choses to buck? Wouldn't that be what a trainer would do? I've never seen another mule around here. Not to say there may not be, but it's not the area for it. Maybe I could find one to call and talk to.


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## mountainwmn (Sep 11, 2009)

A good trainer is all about making the horse or mule not buck in the first place. The very second I feel a horse tense to buck I ask it for something else. When did she start bucking? If she didn't start till a faster gait, keep her in the walk for now. Turn her in small circles, teach her to yeild to your leg, get on and dont move at all, just stand there if thats what she needs. I do tend to find that most horses want to buck more the faster they go. 
Some will buck when they spook at something. Those I just try to avoid spooky things until they are a little more solid under saddle. Then you spend time trying to make them spook. But you need full control first. 
And some just want you off. You have to hold on until they stop bucking. Then I usually give them a few good whacks with the reins each time and continue that until they decide it isn't worth the effort. 
I guess I should add that at this point in my life I wouldn't even ride that type of horse.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> So, get on and hold on for dear life if she chooses to buck? Wouldn't that be what a trainer would do?


For whatever reason, I never was a good bucking horse rider, never have been. If something bucks I usually go off. Knowing that, if I got bucked off by a young/green horse that was when they went to a trainer. 

Lots of ground work, responding to voice commands, ground driving and lots of "de-spooking" were where I started. Most of the time I didn't have a problem with bucking. However, if one bucked me off, my assumption was that they may have learned that was something that worked to avoid doing something I was asking for. Getting bucked off a second/third/fourth time would simply reinforce that learning pattern. That's when my plan called for someone who could stay on a horse that bucked.

Most trainers where I lived most of my life were a lot better at riding something that bucked than I was. They could not only stay on them, the good ones could make it unpleasant for the animal as well.

I really can't tell you how to go about finding a good trainer as I've had the same problem ever since I moved to KY ... what I need simply doesn't seem to exist here. I had several to choose from in MT. Ranch country and almost everyone rode and most of them had ridden/trained a lot of spoiled horses and green horses. That kind of trainer simply isn't common here in KY ... and I've looked.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Training is a skill, which is why the good ones are in high demand and command good wages. Thankfully, the days of training by simply riding the buck out of them are long gone.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

wr said:


> Training is a skill, which is why the good ones are in high demand and command good wages. Thankfully, the days of training by simply riding the buck out of them are long gone.


Very true. Natural horsemanship and dressage instruction (in Spain) did a lot for my training abilities and changed a lot of the ways I did things. There was still the occasional horse that would buck anyway ... and it was those that went to the trainer after the first time I hit the ground.

Knowing I couldn't ride something that bucked and the fact that the older I got the harder the ground got, made me tense when I would get back on a horse that had bucked. This will carry through to the horse, making it more likely they will buck again. Definitely better for everyone to go to the professionals quickly.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Lots of de-spooking is what I am working on now. She needs to get used to stuff. I don't think they did any of that with her, at least not any purposeful sacking. We are working with tarps right now. I've got her walking over a tarp on the ground that is flapping in the wind. I can see she doesn't like it, but she is doing it. 
She's over the waving bale plastic already, and seems to be tolerant, but not yet super ok with a rope swinging about. 

There are no mule trainers around here. I've looked and I really don't want to take her to a horse trainer, because for the most part, they don't get it. That pretty much leaves me.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I have never had a mule- I've had Saddlebreds.
So with the idea that I have no mule authority-
1) I've never met a horse that couldn't be taught to lunge. It just takes keeping the line short enough to make contact, keeping yourself to their rear even if you end up walking all over the place to do it, being persistant, and gradually increasing the time spent doing it. But having said that, I have never found lunging to do much to reduce energy as it is done on flat ground and hopefully under control.
2) If you have access to a long hill to ride up, I would use it. Let her expend her energy hauling both you and herself up the hill at a walk. Then get off at the top walk down and repeat until you feel confident that she will only walk. If you ride down hill and she chooses to buck- well I've never managed to sit one of those. 
3) Circling is the only thing I know to derail an urge to buck. So I would practice her turning sharply around you on the lead first, then under saddle. At the walk- avoid everyone getting excited- get off and walk before the excitement builds.
4) Walk everywhere til she's thinks that is the only possible gait - no trot no canter not nothing but walk. Keeping calm and under control is first order. When she is bored with walking everywhere, the you can surprise her with a request for more- hopefully she will be so used to walking that you will actually have to thump her a bit to get he out of a walk.
5) Lot of pausing between requests helps keep things calm. A few seconds of standing quieting between even steps at first helps maintain. If you ask her to move her rear off while her front pivots around you on the lead, be happy with a step at first. Let her stop. Tell her she is good, scratch her neck, stand there a second and ask for another step. When she is calmly doing whatever it is you want, then you can add to it.
Do ten small things calmly will get you much farther much faster than a million hysterical reactions.
6) If she has the upright neck carriage of a Saddlebred, then teaching her to drop her head in response to a half halt on a snaffle will help you keep her calm. Strangely I've found that asking the head to come down lower will act like a relaxer to horses. When they are naturally relaxed, the head comes down. Asking them to assume that postion seems to actually cause them to relax. 
Remember with a bucking tendency, a lower head carriage does not mean nose way down. Just at a relaxed level. This is especially true with Saddlebreds.

In my experience , slow work makes for calm. If you feel she has too much energy, then she needs less feed even if what she's getting is grass hay only.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I don't agree that a horse trainer can't train a mule. The goal is to have a fully trained animal and a good trainer reads their animal rather than following a schedule. 

Rogo has used the same principals for mules, donks and cattle to be ridden. My daughter has used the same general concepts she gained from training horses to train buffalo and other exotics to be ridden or meet specific requirements for movies and I've use what I know to train horses, ponies, donks, a zony and cattle.


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

By your previous posts, your trying to push a rope.
The quickest route to failure with a mule or donkey is to continue doing the same thing when the incorrect action is happening. You may not understand how quick and how good this mule is going to get at bucking if you continue on this path. She's already got you pegged.
She may not buck today or the next 3 times you ride. But when feels you in the same position as you were in the last time she bucked. She'll put you in the nose bleed seats.
Give her time to forget about it. To lessin what has already happened. Go do something else. Something that is going to exhaust her emotionally and physically.
You need to change what you are doing. Then come back to the riding at a later time.
Now the other option is to get someone else involved. Such as a trainer or changing what you are teaching her.
Theres an old thing that the skinners used to do called "wadding" or "wadding up". It was done as a result of continual undesirable behavior. I don't necessarily reccomend it but from first hand experience, it does work. I don't think it can be described here, in its detail, toward sucess though. 
With all the desensitizng that you speak about doing, may be actually causing yourself a problem. You need to be able to push her away before you reel her back in. Thats probably the root reason for having a tough time getting her to lounge. She doesn't know enough to go away from you.
Sorry if I'm being a little blunt. I am concerned about your success. And moreso the mule.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I am not sure what you are getting at CIW. I havent been on her since that happened. I am not doing the same thing or things by any means. What path am I continuing on and what should I change? There won't ever be me in that same position. I stated I am getting a different saddle, that fits properly, and that I will be doing ground work first to be sure she is clear about what I am asking (with the reins and such) before getting on again. 

I have been doing a lot of other things with her, ground work, I mean, that have no correlation to what happened that day. Yesterday I gave her a body rub with a rake and a feed bag. Then we walked for over an hour while working on voice commands and maneuvering obstacles. This past week has also included walking over flapping tarps. That was definitely emotional for her.

Part of what has been discussed is wether or not I should start riding soon or wait till spring and do only ground work.


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