# Build as you go...



## backwoodsdream (Sep 20, 2012)

Hi there.
We put earnest money down on a 20 acre piece of land near family in north idaho. It is very close to where I grew up. There is a great 100gpm well, power, a couple if outbuildings, and an old junker 54' trailer:clap: with a very nice oversized roof structure.

Our plan is to build a 2500sq house with a walkout basement and run a small sustaining hobby farm type honestead. 

The question is... can we build as we go? We plan to gut and refurb the trailer for temp dwelling. Afrer trailer refurb, putting in septic, excavating and pouring the basement we run out of money.

After paying minimal bills and living expenses we will have about $2000 per month to go towards building. Is this a feasable scenario or are we pushing it?

Husband is a roofer and very fine finish carpenter. Tired ofbuilding other peoples overly mortgaged dream homes!

Is diy icf affordable? Ahould I spend more hours looking into sips? Or should we just get down and dirty framing what we know?

Thanks!


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## used2bcool13 (Sep 24, 2007)

Well I think that ought to be just fine, assuming no outrageous bldg permit fees. You have a place to live and all of the ammenities (ahemm) you could save up as needed and build as you can. 

This is my 401K plan also,lol. So far only the shed is built though, well is next!


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## backwoodsdream (Sep 20, 2012)

We are lucky to have such a great well/driveway/power already in place. It will be tough living in that singlewide with two kids.... but people do that up there.

As far as permits... the local answer that I am getting is "codes schmodes". Uncle just put in his own septic system without any contact with the county. I am leary of not building by the book but I am just not sure if there even is a book. My parents just completing a gc build in neighboring county and they followed every inspection/code/permit to the t. On the other hand, I cannot find even a county resouce for my questions other than " make sure to buy your rock from 'ol so-and-so who coincidently is the county commissioner.

Do you think I should dig up a can of code worms or follow the "when in rome" local way of building under the radar? We just may want to sell this place someday.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

backwoods, 
I've been in this scenario before. (not having enforcement of building codes). Here's what I done: Contact local lending agencies, ie; banks, credit unions, etc. Ask them what is required for a borrower that is preparing to purchase a place. If a proper perk test is required, make sure you install the septic system according to DEQ standards. If an electrical or any other type of inspection is required, make sure you do it correctly without cutting corners. Just because one is doing it themself doesn't mean it can't be done properly without cutting corners. It's just sometimes easier, quicker, cheaper to do it however you choose. 

It's usually not local enforcement that dicatates things done properly. It's future buyers' lending facilities that demand proper faciliities before lending to protect their investment. You're being wise by going at this carefully. You may never sell it but if you do, it can be a lot easier and cheaper on you in the long run.


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## backwoodsdream (Sep 20, 2012)

Thanks, francismilker! I never even thought to ask lenders the question simply because we do not plan on borrowing. Great idea!

A sewer permit is $250 and basically requires the soil check and a decent plan. Word on the "street" is that past owners were dinged on their poop pond system so the property may be on the radar. I am not taking any chances with that poop!


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

20 acres......any decent timber on it ?

If so, log some out, and either have a portable miller come saw it, or ( better ) buy a small, used bandmill and saw it yourself......sell the mill later for what you paid.....REALLY cheap lumber !


Yes.....it's possible to build as you go. I did. I've helped a buddy of mine do it. It can be done, just realize it takes a long time, but not ANYWHERE as long as a big mortgage !


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

That's exactly what we're doing. (And we don't usually have an extra $2K per month)

We bought our land, got a trailer house (ours is 70', though, so we have two bedrooms, and a large enough LR to curtain off as a third) and have been building as we go. So far, it's been 2 years. But our finances were completely stalled out for a while, too...

To codes, I asked at the courthouse what types of codes were in place. "Out of town? None, except septic inspection." There is no building department or anything, so I asked at the county clerk/assessor's office.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I built my own house... took almost two years, as I did everything myself. Funds get short, you work less... more, you work more on it.

Imho, icf and sips are for people with lots of money or jonesing for a hideous mortgage, and want their house done right now, post haste. They are fast, but I don't think cheap... your paying for someone else's time creating them... DIY and cut out the middle men...

second getting a sawmill... you lose little in the transaction and can get tons of wood cut for next to nothing... if you don't have timber on your place, check out the neighbors or state/federal land... trees are always dying...


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## backwoodsdream (Sep 20, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback... love it!

DH will be working in the woods in family logging biz so some form of timber collection is certainly feasable. The land has been "selectively logged" before put on the market. Some of it looks a little too bare already for my taste. (But then so does most of the north idaho that I remember from my childhood.) 

I have been doing my budgeting and planning based on lowes/homedepot types. I am interested inseeing lumber prices from the mill. I am keeping everything on the down low until we pull the trigger. Word travels fast in a small small town.

As far as ICF goes, I was thinking that that it would be less labor inensive for one man to stack the snap together blocks. Three jobs in one sort of a thing. What is the best alternative... cinder block or plywood foundation forms? How did you all build you're basement? I am fully ready to ditch the sips

and icf idea for the rest of the shell. I think I was thinking with my calander and not my pocketbook.


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## jcatblum (Dec 15, 2009)

We currently are leaning towards a metal home. Been saving for a while so we know what we can put each month towards the build (living in a $5000 single wide on the farm). Our plan is to pay a local company for the foundation & shell up front. Then I figure realistically on the average month working on weekends we will be going slow enough that paying as we go wont be a problem. No codes or permits where we are so that helps. 
We considered straw bale, but sometimes my money goes further than my muscle!


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

I'm building ICF right now. It costs about $6/square foot of wall area (not floor area). It is easy for one person working alone, but there is a bit of a learning curve. I'm using a local contractor for advice and to do the actual pouring, which is the tricky part. I also rented his bracing system, so my cost is higher than $6, but I would have to dig through a lot of receipts to figure it out. I could definitely have built cheaper, but I like the strength and energy efficiency of ICF. In addition to the insulation, ICF is inherently a sealed wall, so air infiltration is virtually zero. I doubt it will pay for itself in my lifetime, though.

One thing about ICF is that it has to be protected from sunlight, so you have to get some kind of siding on it, ideally within 6 months or so. I don't know how that works into your budget for time and money.


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## mike554 (Jun 9, 2012)

I checked the sip prices where I get them. They are running anywhere from $2 to $4 per sq. ft. depending on the thickness. The price also varies if you are putting sips on a structure or building with just sips. I use the non-structural sips for my frames. I have them on my house and wouldn't want to use anything else. The only special tool you need are hot irons to melt the foam to put 2x in for doors or window openings. The irons come from Idaho (I think)and only cost about 90.00 each. Good luck with whatever you build.


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## backwoodsdream (Sep 20, 2012)

Mushcreek- is that price including your pour?


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

That would be a materials price- forms, re-bar, and concrete. You have to have some way to brace and align the walls, plus any hired labor. After watching and helping with the pour, I would do my own, but not the first time. I've heard of people 'apprenticing' themselves to an ICF builder to gain experience.


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## woodsy (Oct 13, 2008)

We started our DIY home on 20 undeveloped ac. 20 yrs ago, still working on it, pay as you go, no problem, takes some patience, skills and time . Pretty well done now, built and added a few more kitchen cabinets recently, and a range hood , bathroom fan next etc...
Take your time, no hurry. Its cheaper that way........


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## backwoodsdream (Sep 20, 2012)

20 years, holy moly! 

Mushcreek- I was budgeting @ about same price, took me all day to figure that out, though. How much are your blocks each? I am figuring concrete at $115 per cy. Does that sound right? Bracing system for rent @ $18 pper brace...totals about $700.

Do you need to apply some sort of membrane between outside icf foam and backfill wall? Is that includd in your $6?

We are leaning towards icf basement more and more.


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

I used Fox ICF. They were $17.35 per block, and a block covers 5.333 square feet. I don't know if the contractor marked it up or not, but I assume so. I used 1-1/2 tons of #4 re-bar. The concrete here in SC was $92/yd. Finding a local source for block is key, as my 2 levels @ 1300 square feet each filled an entire 53' trailer, and shipping was $1000.

It pays to add up everything, as there are many other costs involved. I bought a foam gun to stick blocks together with, plus the foam. I used clips that Fox sells to hold the blocks together in strategic areas. You have to build window and door bucks for any openings, and then they need to be stoutly braced against the weight of the concrete. You have to have a concrete pumper for the pour, and I don't know what they charge per hour. Since my contractor did the pour, everything was wrapped up in the final price rather than itemized.

The waterproofing is not in that price, either, as you would have to waterproof any basement. I used Grace Bituthene, which is a heavy vinyl sheet with an adhesive on the back, applied directly on the ICF. Then we put dimple board, a plastic board material which maintains a drainage plane at the wall. You also have to have concrete footings, and a perimeter drain system to keep the basement dry. I believe this all now code-required in most areas. The footings have to be perfectly level, or the ICF will have to be shaved to start and keep your walls plumb. My walls are 14 courses, each 16", for a total of 18' 8", and they remained level within 1/4" total error. That's mighty accurate by house building standards. Again, that's why I hired a pro for the concrete work.

Our sequence was footings, ICF for two courses, glued to the footing, then we poured the basement slab, complete ICF and pour, then build the main floor deck. After that point, you can backfill the foundation.

Stacking the ICF is very easy, but the bracing is heavy, and then there's all the re-bar to cut, bend, and place. I put re-bar every course horizontally (every 16") then every 16" vertically after the wall is stacked. Extra re-bar is used over any openings to create a lintel. The concrete pour is very critical. The concrete has to be just right. You pour about 3' all the way around, and use a vibrator to consolidate the concrete so that there are no voids. Once you work your way around, the concrete is firm enough to pour the next 3', etc. It took two guys just about 2 hours to pour my 1300 sq ft basement. The vibrator is tricky- not enough, and there are voids; too much, and you risk blowing out the wall.

One of these days I'm going to start a thread here about my build with plenty of pictures.


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## woodsy (Oct 13, 2008)

backwoodsdream said:


> 20 years, holy moly!


Yes, prepare yourself for a new lifestyle.


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## backwoodsdream (Sep 20, 2012)

Mushcreek- thanks for all the info! The plant that makes the block is 40 miles from build site. Up there that is nextdoor neighboors! We will have an experienced concrete hire for sure. Where was the rough plumb in your sequence? Can you share total bill for basement...or shell? Thanks SO much!

Woodsy... my dad did this when I was a kid. Started when I was in first grade. I gradiated HS with bare studs in my bedroom. After 25 years they sold the house and had one built as their forever home. Don't think they ever finished that other house. So... didn't even think about that until after your post.

So... we were scribbling out some floor plans lastnight, trying to settle in on our Sqf. Realized that hubby and I have some different opinions about some big things. For example... he wants to put a hundred bedrooms in. I think three plus den is more than enough with that big basement! I think he thinks we are building a dang hotel!


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## wiggles_n_flop (Sep 24, 2012)

building as you go is a great way to go... just remember that it will end up taking longer than you might think.
idaho building regs are pretty loose... the only statewide is the electrical (if you're on the grid) but the power company will refuse to connect power unless you have a septic permit (annoying loophole) anything more than that just depends on what county you are in. i don't know if you're planning on being off grid but if so then you might not need any permits at all. i have built a lot of houses here in idaho but like i said, other than electric the only codes are county and i've only worked with idaho and lewis counties.


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## backwoodsdream (Sep 20, 2012)

Ooh, thanks for the info. . Wiggles.

I read that... about the power connect a no-go until septic is settled. There is power on property, but no septic. Does this mean that we will not be able to connect service? Lines are up...it was live already.

Listen... no flushy, no livey... not a corner I want to cut. However we could use power on property to get things cleaned up and livable while septic is being put in.

Maybe moot since power already hooked up, just no juice flowing?


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## backwoodsdream (Sep 20, 2012)

Btw longterm plan is a grid tie in with mini-hydro and solar. Lots of water on property and my pesonal study project. One of the reasons we are making this move is so I will have the resources to play with alternative energies. Solar is financially out of reach for the common american. I want to find a better way. Just my thing.

But, we need to build a house first. My projects are secondary.


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

I'd have to dig out a bunch of receipts to give you any totals. Not sure I want to actually know what we have spent so far.....

The septic system went in after the barn, but before the house. The barn and house will both be on the same system. I put in the under-slab drain work, and carefully mapped where everything is in the case of a problem. Right now, there are just plumbing stub-outs sticking up out of the slab. I put drains in place for a basement bathroom as well. There is a wet wall (for plumbing) alongside the stairwell, and that is where the drain system goes up to the main floor. A separate drain for the kitchen goes up one wall, set into the foam. You just channel it out with a cheap electric chainsaw. Same thing for electrical wiring on an ICF wall. Water supply will be PEX, run through the floor joists to the various fixtures.


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## woodsy (Oct 13, 2008)

backwoodsdream said:


> Woodsy... my dad did this when I was a kid. Started when I was in first grade. I gradiated HS with bare studs in my bedroom. After 25 years they sold the house and had one built as their forever home. Don't think they ever finished that other house. So... didn't even think about that until after your post.


So maybe not a lifestyle change for you, lol.
Sounds like what my kid went through only his bd room was done 10 yrs before he graduated, before our bdrm even !

Seems to become a big game of priorites, some things not so important as others.
No regrets here , beats supporting the bankers .


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## backwoodsdream (Sep 20, 2012)

Bingo woodsy!

As we let our plan trickle out into conversation we are getting lots of negative feedback from friends and family. I would understand this if I didn't know that each and every one is fighting monthly to pay their mortgage or rent. Don't really know a lot of people who are actually living their dream life right now.


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## wiggles_n_flop (Sep 24, 2012)

backwoodsdream said:


> There is power on property, but no septic. Does this mean that we will not be able to connect service? Lines are up...it was live already.
> ?



if you already have a pedestle and meter in then you're good to go. just call in to have them turn you on and if they ask just tell them you're need the power to run tools and build a shop... (technically true, so they've done their duty in asking.) then once it is on they have no business knowing what you do with it on your land after it leaves the meter. perfectly legal.


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## woodsy (Oct 13, 2008)

backwoodsdream said:


> Bingo woodsy!
> 
> As we let our plan trickle out into conversation we are getting lots of negative feedback from friends and family. I would understand this if I didn't know that each and every one is fighting monthly to pay their mortgage or rent. Don't really know a lot of people who are actually living their dream life right now.


We are !!!
But we got here the hard way, so some would say.
We were mortgage free after 12 years from start, and that mtg was only $350 mo.
But, if i had a dollar for every hr. i had in this property i'd probably be a millionare , didn't hire much out beyond the foundation work, well, drive and septic. 

Good luck ! You can do it too, never mind the naysayers, nothing ventured, nothing gained.


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

Idaho building codes are pretty lax. The US adopted a uniform building code that all states are supposed to follow, but not all do. I would not buy any building materials locally so that ant local people. Don't get mosey and ask the building inspector if you have a permit.

Bob


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## backwoodsdream (Sep 20, 2012)

Update on this project... county denied drainfield because of clay. Basement not feasable for same reason. Squashed the deal. No worries...there is lots of land out there! We will find a spot. Thanks for all advice!


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## Monica33 (Jul 11, 2012)

Same issues here, high water table and clay so no basement or field. 
Solution 1... build up, second story instead of one down. 
2. walkout basement possibly partially earth bermed
3. septic tank + pump + grey water tank + tank for back of truck to "water trees" = less than tank and field and still legal 
Think outside the box.


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

Sorry to hear that that one fell apart. One point to ponder here. As you grow older, and the kids start to move on, your concept of space gets radically different. As in, the 2500 ft. you had to have, fifteen years ago, is no longer making a lick of sense to you. It needs to be cleaned, fixed, decorated, heated and taxed. Not only that, but somewhere along the line, your ambition leaked out slowly, and your no longer in the mood for all of that. Our kids left the nest over the last few years. Our 1700 ft. house is too big, and my desire to maintain the surrounding grounds is nearly nonexistant. I just broke ground on a 1230 ft ranch for the two of us, and I can't wait to move in. No basement, no yard, no ball and chain around my ankle as I spend all my free time painting, mowing and earning to pay utilities and taxes on far more than I need or want. Oddly enough, I listen to my friends and neighbors as they longingly comment about our new direction. typically, one partner in the relationship would sell the trophy house tommorrow, and the other plans on spending the next few decades in their 2500+ ft. home full of empty bedrooms and needless formal dining and living rooms. As a builder, one of the smartest things I ever heard was from another builder who told me that he always encourages younger families to think of their current space needs as a temporary issue. If you "need" four bedrooms, put two of them in the basement, along with a family room. When the need for those rooms is over, you have a few walls to remove to get your basement back, you don't have a massive house to deal with. A lot of folks here are different in their thinking, and are planning the rest of theirs lives, and how they will be living on their place until the end. A modest ranch, stuffing the kids in a walkout basement for a few years, and being temporarily tight on space, beats the snot out of spending the second half of your life being a slave to an oversized house. JMHO, but it was developed by listening to those that are older and smarter than I. Don't know what genius philsopher said it, but ...... "You don't own stuff, stuff owns you." Good luck.


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

Monica33 said:


> Same issues here, high water table and clay so no basement or field.
> Solution 1... build up, second story instead of one down.
> 2. walkout basement possibly partially earth bermed
> 3. septic tank + pump + grey water tank + tank for back of truck to "water trees" = less than tank and field and still legal
> Think outside the box.


Sorry, but 99.9% of the time, the "suitability" of a property for the installation of a state approved, on-site sewage disposal system trumps all. In my state, if you are not the owner, and occupying a dwelling with a failed on-site system, the state has no requirement to accomodate any thinking "outside the box". Even then, the solution to a problem like you describe might run $20-40K, and the state doesn't have to care. As long as there are workable solutions, the cost isn't a factor. As a builder, the excavating contractors and sewage enforcement officers I work with regularly tell me stories of horrifically expensive systems installed in areas where regular systems have, or would fail. The OP is being careful and smart to avoid buying a problem. BTW, in many areas the last thing you would want to get caught doing is dumping grey water. There are some enlightened areas that are smart enough to see the benefits of recycling grey water, but there are a lot of places where it can get ugly fast. As a hard core RVer, I have witnessed a couple of occasions where things almost came to blows after a tree hugger throws a hissy fit over somebody dumping dish water in the bushes.


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## Monica33 (Jul 11, 2012)

A holding tank versus a septic tank and field are both "approved". Lots of places can't have a field and just have a tank that has to be pumped out when its full.
I can have a greywater system because my county law allows it on land zoned "agricultural". 
As for the 20-40k price tag, I don't think so. Plastic approved holding tank and greywater tank sized for family of 4 - $2550, pump $212 including 25' of hose, tank for truck used $100. Hole for tanks $25 for diesel. I dug both of them with the bucket on my tractor in one day easy. Fill $70. Additional plumbing. including underslab for greywater $284. 
If I was on land zoned residential I would have to have the local septic service guys come to pump out my tanks (which he unloads in some farmers field) but since I am not I can pump them into a tank for the truck or tractor trailer and "water" anywhere on my land as long as I am a certain distance from water sources (and my garden). I will use it for windbreak plantings and fruit trees. 
Outside the box is not necessarily not to code, nor more $ but I admit sometimes it is.


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

Monica33 said:


> A holding tank versus a septic tank and field are both "approved". Lots of places can't have a field and just have a tank that has to be pumped out when its full.
> I can have a greywater system because my county law allows it on land zoned "agricultural".
> As for the 20-40k price tag, I don't think so. Plastic approved holding tank and greywater tank sized for family of 4 - $2550, pump $212 including 25' of hose, tank for truck used $100. Hole for tanks $25 for diesel. I dug both of them with the bucket on my tractor in one day easy. Fill $70. Additional plumbing. including underslab for greywater $284.
> If I was on land zoned residential I would have to have the local septic service guys come to pump out my tanks (which he unloads in some farmers field) but since I am not I can pump them into a tank for the truck or tractor trailer and "water" anywhere on my land as long as I am a certain distance from water sources (and my garden). I will use it for windbreak plantings and fruit trees.
> Outside the box is not necessarily not to code, nor more $ but I admit sometimes it is.


Being in this business, I guess I have a bit of a different perspective. First, I believe you will find that is most states, a holding tank is NOT allowed as an alternative to an approved on-lot septic system, when dealing with a proposed new home. There are places where they are allowed to temporarily deal with failed systems, but the situation is getting continually more restrictive. As for your claim that my $20-40K quote for alternative systems isn't accurate, well I guess there is a big difference between a state agency overseeing a highly complex alternative system, and your cost for a plastic tank and a few gallons of diesel for the tractor. If the state gives you a choice between condeming you home due to a failed septic system, or spending $20K, telling them, " no worries, I got a plastic tank and I'll just spray my crap on the fence row" usually fails to resolve the issue. 

Remember, the vast majority of folks in north america do not live in rural areas with agricultural exemptions that basically allow anything short of piping sewage into the local stream. The OP was smart to move on when the local authorities told him that conditions would not allow an on-site system to be built on a property he was looking for. Your OPINION that the local authorities having juristiction are wrong, and that a holding tank will be just fine, doesn't do much for his situation. BTW, dumping untreated human waste on farm fields in most first world countries will land you in jail, and for good reason. Also, your idea that "not necessarily to code" is acceptable, may turn out to bite you some time down the road. I have found that, even in very rural areas, with a "live and let live" attitude toward government interference, the line gets drawn at folks who create public health hazards. It take one phone call from an upset neighbor to really throw your world upside down. Especially if a sewage official shows up to inspect. Nothing like a condemnation notice on the door to make you realize that you don't always get to make you own rules, especially when it can harm others.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> the line gets drawn at folks who create public health hazards.


What's really unfortunate is the vast majority of folks don't really understand what does and doesn't constitute a "health hazard." The typical objections to composting toilets being a good example...


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## Monica33 (Jul 11, 2012)

I was not trying to suggest he do anything against the state building code nor break health codes or the safety issues just for his own convenience. Rather that maybe some pertinent questions might reveal other up to code options for the situation rather than deal with only one preformed acceptable idea. 

Our system is to code. Local county building inspectors enforce state codes too! He is actually the one who informed us of different options open to us that are both safe and legal. 

The septic contractor was just as gung ho to install the alternate system as he was the 20k septic tank and field one he decided we needed. If he would have been the one to be helpful instead of just greedy with his over-inflated pricetag I would have paid his bill. Instead I took a little of that 20k bought my own 4 wheel drive diesel tractor that came with mower, hayrake, baler, cultivator, disks, and almost new pto rototiller. Although well broken in most of the stuff will never get used again except maybe borrowed to someone else who might like to do what we did on the neighbors now for sale land. Were going to Greece, Italy, France and Spain this winter for a month on some of the rest.

As I am not familiar with his local county or state codes, I would suggest he do his own research. What is safe and legal to install on 20 acres (which I doubt is in a residential area 20 feet from his neighbors well or basement) is a lot different than what can be done on a 75 by 100 foot city lot or on 160 acres. That's why we have different sections in the building code and not just one.

As for my neighbors, I wonder more about his open 5 acre "treatment" lagoon that all his beef, pig and poultry manure goes into and what is growing in there! I am pretty sure that is also where the dead bodies from his factory poultry and hog barns went into too! Good thing last year he retired and shut down. After the bulldozer came he had several nice big bonfires and made most of the community smile because no-one but his always sickly family ever went in there. Good thing he was downwind and downhill from us.

Most of 'our' human manure goes through a composting toilet system and the low flush toilet and holding tank were installed for the sake of the building code. The only ones who really use it are my children's grandmother and great aunt. At the rate it is getting filled up it will be ten years before we have to get it pumped out. 

I am pretty sure and apparently so are the experts that the septic pump truck contents and animal manures that are permitted to be sprayed out on farm fields in October after harvest are safe to plant in 5 months later after going through our five months of winter down to -40. You make it sound like we are spraying the contents of a small towns sewer system once a month.

We did our research also before we bought. We ultimately decided on changing husbands wants of full basement to no basement. What did we get in exchange? 80 acres of class one soil, 30 acres of sustainable woodlot and our own lake. Pasture land that hasn't been sprayed, cultivated nor treated in any way except the perimeter fence since 1906. Our own springwater, well and solar power. No city recycled chemically treated sewer water for us. We eat our own better than organic 'chemical free' produce. Naturally grown fruits, berries, nuts, honey, fish and meats. We have wildlife of many sorts and deer and moose if we want it. All owned free and clear.

What did we give up. Not much good. Life in the city, recycled water, pollution, the psycho neighbors, the drug house down the street, power, gas, water and sewer bills, and more. We still own the house in the city and have a mortgage but the renters are paying that for us. Husband did not have to change his job, and works less hours and commutes less. All the money we used to spend in the city goes straight into savings. He will retire from his job in 5 years at 55 with an extra 300 k not counting what the house in the city makes us. 

And for those who still don't agree that a little thinking outside the box will not get you what you want legally. Up until 7 years ago I was a single parent with three children who made little more than what people on welfare get. I managed to save up all that our homestead cost us, without eating baloney and wieners everyday (almost never in fact, I cannot swallow the stuff). And I never qualified for a mortgage, but still got out of $900 per month rent into a $500 per month mortgage. And while we were living in that one I bought another house and acquired another $500 per month mortgage that I could still afford on one income and put the income from the rental property into savings as well. None of the money came from life insurance that my first husband who had cancerous brain tumors couldn't get. None of the money came from illegal activities either.

I am not trying to get anyone to do anything illegal or immoral, and also advise against buying land he is not totally happy with. All I am saying is there are frequently more than one right way to do things if you take the time to ask a few questions instead of just giving up. If he did his due diligence and asked all the right questions and/or was not willing or able to compromise then he was correct to give up that parcel. 

Good luck to him!


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## dcrichmond (Sep 24, 2012)

I am confused - why would clay stop someone from putting in a basement?


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## Monica33 (Jul 11, 2012)

wharton said:


> The OP was smart to move on when the local authorities told him that conditions would not allow an on-site system to be built on a property he was looking for.


What he/she actually said was "county denied drainfield because of clay. Basement not feasable for same reason".

All I was really pointing out was "did you ask if there were other options (to code, permitted, inspected and legal) regarding the septic that were open to them." And "are you really set on a basement?"

What they might save on a full basement might pay for a difference in cost for a different septic system but they won't know if they doesn't ask. What about this system http://inspectapedia.com/septic/altaerobic.htm

There might be a more likely building site on the 20 acres they were looking at. The local guy might be able to show them a spot or two if he was asked nicely. Ours did and 5 of the 6 spots that he pointed at passed the perk test.

_"an old junker 54' trailer with a very nice oversized roof structure"_
What sort of septic is this hooked up to now? Did you ask if you had to have a new one? Can you tie into the existing one? If you can tie into it what happens when it fails? What options would you have then? All questions that I would want answers to before I squashed the deal. 

I was just giving an example of a different train of thought. I wasn't telling them to do something unsafe, unhealthy or illegal.

Another of the multiple options that were open to us was putting septic tank and field on other side of house, or at one of the five other building sites that we had tested and passed. That however is the north side of where we wanted to build and treed with fully mature trees and windbreak. We choose not to have them removed. We also choose this one of multiple possible building sites for a variety of other reasons all of which are irrelevant to them at this point but they might want to keep in the back of their minds. Solar gain, view, privacy, prevailing winter winds, prevalent storm approach direction, and avoiding frost pockets among but a few.

Homesteading is more than a septic field.

As for asking more questions and things to consider before a final decision, how about this one. We took the time to ask neighbors what kind of systems (and wells) they had. Results were (I kept notes) that 14 out of 20 that actually had septic tanks and fields had failed and needed to be replaced within 20 - 30 years of being installed. Boy old guys sure know everyone's business and talk a lot.
Maybe they could find the time to talk to a few in the area they want to be in. Enlist family's help since they still live there. Lots of land is sold before the realtors hear about it. That's how we found our place. Well that and a divorce.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

If you can pay as you go go for it but be ready to spend a long time .


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Though not even close to as long as you'll pay on a mortgaga...


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## Post_Oakie (Aug 20, 2012)

Back when we built our home 30 years ago, it was called "sweat equity" (though it was more like "blood, sweat & tears" equity). We never owed anybody a cent, and I'd do it again! We started out in a mobile home while we were building, and made the classic mistake of moving into the house before it was finished. Still have a little finishing up to do! I started out hauling logs to a local mill to get the posts & beams cut, but wound up getting my own portable sawmill. Problem was, cutting for other people went from "spare time for fun and profit" to full time work. For me, a bad day at the sawmill is better than a good day at an office (done both). Good luck!


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