# Homesteading in the 21st century (Angie authorized crosspost)



## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

_Note bene: Angie gave me permission and requested that I cross-post this here from General Chat where I originally posted it._


Homesteading in the 21st century is not about striving to live like those in the 19th century or earlier on the most basic of technologies and thinking that one can be one hundred percent self-sufficient or self-reliant. We all depend upon someone else to provide resources we need, no matter how basic.

Even someone living off-grid with candles for light, firewood for heat and survives with hunting and gathering to augment their garden still needs somewhere and someone else from which to obtain their supplies. There is still the need to obtain the wick material, the wax too if not the candles themselves; some way to cut the firewood and someplace to obtain the tools and support materials to maintain the tools, whether a handsaw, ax and sharpening files or a chainsaw, fuel, oil and replacement parts; some way to hunt the animal using a complex tool, the means to preserve the game once killed, some method to preserve the gathered and gardened foods and to renew the supplies to keep those activities going.

While we cannot live off the land as our great-grandparents did and our ancestors before them, we can become more self-aware, self-reliant and self-sufficient in skills, knowledge and ability. There is no need to shun modern technology simply because of the fact it is complex alone. There is no need to embrace historical technology because of the fact it is simple alone. The wise homesteader of the 21st century understands the usefulness of both historical and modern means, methods and philosophies to meld together the most useful and beneficial combinations of the traditional and the cutting edge.

Teaching children on the homestead to shun modern technology makes as much sense as telling them to not study other cultures, philosophies or languages because they may not be something that the parents believe to be of value or use. Broadening and expanding knowledge pays more dividends in the long run than trying to control future minds. Better to train a young mind to learn the benefits and liabilities, the advantages and drawbacks, of the gamut of ideas, things and concepts in the world so that they can become independent, intellectually diverse thinkers that can adapt to the needs of the future.

Additionally, the older generations gain little in demeaning the younger ones and stating that the future is lost because we are not like they are. The world I and my wife live in is different than it was when we were children, so much more different than when our parents grew up. Change is a constant and while I understand the anxiety that comes with change, I also know that eventually the older generations will pass away as they shed their mortal coil. It seems better for the elder to teach the younger while they still can so that their legacy and wisdom can live on rather than complain about how different they are from them.

The world of the 21st century homesteader is not monochromatic nor monotheistic nor uniform. Christians do not corner the market or control the homesteading arena no matter how much they flaunt the superiority of their belief system. Homesteaders come from all backgrounds, ethnicities, faiths, beliefs, creeds and ideologies. It makes little sense to think oneself superior because oneâs deity is supposedly the only right one to believe in. By that logic, all faiths are right and wrong at the same time and one wastes time arguing over what is based on belief rather than fact. Thus for those homesteading in the 21st century belief becomes a part of the personal identity and guiding principles rather than the only way one can live. There is something to be said in the philosophy of the movie Serenity. It does not matter what you believe, only that you believe in something strongly enough that you are willing to stand fast to it and fight for it.

We 21st century homesteaders are not above politics, but we do know that there are things more important and bonding than arguing over who is right and wrong along the broken two party government lines. Homesteaders can agree that environmental sustainability, personal independence and diversity of intellect are important qualities that make a community of homesteaders strong. Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Conservative, Liberal, Right Wing, Left Wing, Wing Nut, Obamist Extremist, *******, Ecofreak are all labels, among so many others, that serve to divide and categorize people to make arguing over who is right and wrong so much easier. My wife and I cannot always agree on certain things, but there are many more that we can and do agree on. I am often the polar opposite to my wife and she the same to me on certain viewpoints, but we find our common ground to keep moving forward to create a mutual future together to make our dreams into reality. Fighting over ideologies and politics wastes energy better suited to more productive pursuits.

What being a 21st century homesteader means at the core of it all is the ability to learn about the best and worst aspects of the diversity of things old and new so that one can properly utilize the best means, method, technology and knowledge to a certain situation. It also means learning widely rather than focusing on a single option for living and believing. Being a school of hard knocks educated hardcore Christian does not make one superior to a highly college educated atheist, nor does the latter make the former inferior.

While I notice so many people fighting over ideologies as of late, my wife and I move forward farther into our century of homesteading to blaze our trails. We are the newer face of homesteading, no more or less perfect than those homesteaders who came before us, but we are knowledgeable about the challenges that face us, we 21st century homesteaders, in a world that changes more rapidly each day. We are prepared to adapt as needed to make our way into the current and future world. What about the rest of you?


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## Texasdirtdigger (Jan 17, 2010)

In a word..BRAVO!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

> we can become more self-aware, self-reliant and self-sufficient in skills, knowledge and ability.





> but we find our common ground to keep moving forward to create a mutual future together to make our dreams into reality. Fighting over ideologies and politics wastes energy better suited to more productive pursuits.





> It seems better for the elder to teach the younger while they still can so that their legacy and wisdom can live on rather than complain about how different they are from them.


On the first read through of this, the above quoted parts are what appeal to me most in this. That's not to say, I may not find more, to especially like when I read through it again.

It's a good piece of thinking and considering, 
Thanks for posting, it can give us all something to think about how we approach our 21st Century Homesteading - which is a lot to do with surviving the whole business.

Angie


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

This a well thought out, well stated piece of common sense, which is uncommon. Thank you for stating what I feel in my heart. And thank you, Angie, for having it cross-posted here, as I don't venture into GC very often (I ended up there once by accident  ).


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## wvstuck (Sep 19, 2008)

First let me give kuddos on a well written post!

However I feel it shows a singular perspective of homesteading and religious beliefs. I would like to respectively share a different perspective without sparking off argument.

For many of us, modern homesteading is about striving to learn the skills necessary to live like our 19th century grand parents and great grand parents. The possibility exists to live a simple "self sufficient" lifestyle much like they did. Technology is very productive and useful, but it is very fragile and has the potential to disappear overnight without warning. My great grandparents did not live a 100% self sufficient lifestyle, no one from that generation did, quite possibly no one has lived that lifestyle since cavemen. However through bartering and purchasing one made their way through life obtaining those things that couldn't be made on the homestead. We have depended on obtaining supplies that we couldn't make for centuries, long before electric, long before paper money and certainly longer than the first boats landed on the shores of America.



> While we cannot live off the land as our great-grandparents did and our ancestors before them


I respectfully disagree with that statement. While many of us choose not to live off the land like our grandparents, many others(some right here in this great forum) actually do live off the land exactly like our grandparents did. My great grandfather lived his whole life facing the hardships of farming and providing for his family, anything and everything that could be done on the farm was done on the farm, anything else was carefully purchased or bartered for. He was not a glass blower, but they had canning supplies and glass pitchers for milk. My grandfather courted my grandmother starting in 1910, he walked 20 miles to visit with her and carried a Dietz Lantern that belonged to his father (I still have this lantern hanging in my barn) The point is, society has been dependent on purchasing and bartering for a very long time. It is still very possible to live off the land and provide for your family with very little outside purchasing.

Of course we have to make purchases to survive. For example the Ax and the bucksaw are much more durable and will last hundreds of years compared to the throw away chainsaw(I own a chainsaw, but I don't depend on it). For centuries blacksmiths made the tools we purchased, then modern factories took over and started making cheap replicas, but there are still blacksmiths around here doing the old work. My purchasing is always of high quality tools designed to last a lifetime. My tooth set and sharpening files are very old, handed down to me. I may need a new bucksaw in my lifetime but the tools to maintain it will out live me. I buy shovels with hardwood hickory handles, not fiberglass handles... Currently I can purchase a new handle if I should break it, but I also know how to cut, shape, dry and weather proof a piece of hickory to fit my shovel handle if one were not available. I can make a candle wick from cotton fibers and turn the wax from my bee hives into long burning candles. There isn't room in this post to discuss every aspect of homesteading we are capable of. I'm sure though that there are people right here in this forum that make me look like a rank amature.

The point is... The lifestyle is dependent on knowledge, if you have the knowledge of the old ways you can assimilate a primarily self sufficient life that can and will provide for you and your family through the toughest of times. College is great, my time spent at W.V.S.U. certainly taught me some skills that made me more valuable to the modern employer, but it did very little to teach me how to harness a draft animal and plow a field. 

The difference between my ancestors and myself is simple to define, they worked hard to provide food from daylight to dark and then went to bed, I work hard daylight to dark to provide food also, but when it gets dark I play the Wii with the children and then go to bed... But in tough times I can always skip the Wii and reading HT forums and just go to bed.



> Christians do not corner the market or control the homesteading arena no matter how much they flaunt the superiority of their belief system.


Question? When did christians corner the market, claim to corner the market or exhibit tendencies to corner the market? Christians have always been persecuted and dumped upon by the non-believers. In 64 A.D. Nero burned christians on stakes and used the burning bodies as candles to light the night. I myself am a Christian and I walk with God through my garden everyday and I pray to him through Jesus Christ every night. I am not boastful in my walk. Chrsitians are servants, not arrogant and boastful. However we are permitted to defend our right to worship and believe and defend ourselves when attacked just like any other person would. I have never seen a single Christian talk about being "supieror" on these forums, yet in the OP's article we were called down three times. I have friends that live on farms that sort of belive in God and I have other friends that do not believe in God at all... They all woke up this morning and are all working the land to produce crops the same as I am and we are friends no matter what they believe. I'm not sure why Christians were singled out in an article about homesteading.... Maybe it can be explained by the OP.

Politics are something I do not wish to touch on, other than you have to be involved enough to make sure you don't loose your right to farm the old way without Monsanto and others. Debate is healthy and it keeps one side from running away with the rule book.

Overall I really enjoyed reading the OP, but I think it only showed the lifestyle of one person or family. Many others live a different life and strive everyday to become self suffcient, I only wish to offer another view, my intention was not to spark a counter productive debate. I have often seen the argument posed about 100% self sufficency not being possible... I respectfully disagree. If you have the funds to purchase a shovel to fill a need then that purchase was one of self sufficency, welfare didn't buy that shovel, you did! If you can grow it, mine it, make it or purchase it without stealing or depending on handouts it can be defined as self sufficent.

I always felt that we lived self sufficeny on the homestead in a percentage based system. The OP may live a 70/30 lifestyle while as the next person lives a 20/80 lifestyle. 70% being amount of goods and services purchased while the 30% represents things that are grown and produced on the homestead. I think I am probably living at 40/60 right now, always heading towards that 10/90 though. Turn the lights out and burn all of your gasoline... Will you survive or will you not... Self Sufficency defined :cowboy:


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## willbuck1 (Apr 4, 2010)

I am here because I grew up on a small farm and wish my children to do so also. I don't make much money so it is important to me to learn ways that don't require much money. My ideology is not that of a homesteader but much more rooted in practicality than the average homesteader. Not to disparage that, but to say that I want and need solutions that are not labor intensive or dreams of what I would like someday.

I believe that there are too many problems with our society today and that while people may point at each of them and say we can fix that, statistically one of the problems can and will eat our lunch. It is my duty and responsibility as a parent to make certain that I can provide for my children in the event that one of the potential calamities should strike.

I know my family history and know that self sufficiency is possible at least to the extent of being able to make many of the things I need, raise enough food to feed us and have some left for trade, and pass these things on to my kids. 

Other people have other reasons, some I consider impractical, some admirable, but is not up to me to judge them and I honestly could care less what they believe as long as they let me pursue my goals unmolested. I deprive my children of none of the marvels of modern technology but am passing on to them the knowledge of how to live without them.

As I said I'm not here to judge others. Only time will tell what if any, long term results of the homesteading movement will be. If I'm right my family will survive. If I'm wrong I've lost nothing but some time, and gained so much more. Time with my children teaching them skills that are rapidly disappearing and hopefully teaching them to love the knowledge enough to want to pass it on to their children as my parents and grandparents passed it on to me.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

wvstuck

well said.


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## Texasdirtdigger (Jan 17, 2010)

vwstuck - BRAVO to you , as well.

Thank you both.


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## Texasdirtdigger (Jan 17, 2010)

willbuck1 - Props to you, also!!


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## Ode (Sep 20, 2006)

I am here to glean the wisdom of those already living as homesteaders, and to share what I have learned over my life. While I live in a small city, in a traditional neighborhood on a typical city plot, I wish to try to become more self-sufficient and lower my impact on the world and its limited resources. My goal is eventually to have a parcel of land in the forests of Maine, to grow even more of my food in an environmentally sound manner, and to produce the energy needed to run my home and supply all the energy needed on my homestead. I want to do this so that 1) I will not have to worry about possibly losing power due to potential problems in the power distribution grid, and 2) not having to worry about being able to afford power when I am old due to rising energy costs as oil and coal supplies diminish, and 3) to reduce waste and pollution in whatever ways I can in my daily life.

I want to know my food is free from harmful chemicals, and not subject to cruel or inhumane treatment. I want to live having the benefit of every modern scrap of technology possible to make my life easier, and my home and person safer. I do not judge others for their lifestyle choices, and wish only to be given that same respect with my choices in how I wish to live. 

While I usually do not agree with the political, or religious, or lifestyle choices of many posters in the Homesteading Today forums, I do share with every single one of them a respect for, and desire for a simpler and quieter life than is typical in today's society. Just because my version of simple doesn't include living without electricity, modern plumbing, or modern medicine doesn't make it any less valid as a homesteading life than someone else who thinks those things are their ideal. Both are just different versions of the same thing, along with everyone in between. We all can learn from each other.

That's why I am here.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

I appreciate where reluctant is coming from, but I also differ with him on his conclusion. What WVstuck wrote is eloquent, and states my thought as well.

However, as a Christian, there are certainly too many who are prideful that they are Christian, It's a struggle for me, which is why I share. Many have false humility, as exemplified by the religious teacher in the Gospels, or the character Uriah Heep in Dickens book, David Copperfield. Everything we have comes from the Father, so that we may not boast.

I do agree quite strongly with the OP's concern about some striving to achieve a certain time frame of living. If that is so, start taking a bath once a week after plowing all day, or hoeing the garden during the week, Have 2 sets of clothes total, maybe 3. What I an the OP are wanting to see less an emphasis on certain historical periods, but rather the mindset of self sufficiency where we are in time.


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## Mrs. Jo (Jun 5, 2007)

(I'm going to post this but haven't read any replies. No time to right now.)


It sounds like someone has made the author upset, and I'm sorry for that. Because of the limitations of this form of communication, we have to extend the courtesy of freedom of belief to other people. Letting go of these kinds of differences and learning to see the good in other people will go a long way towards improving the quality of life that we have. I think this is what the author is trying to say. 

If I'm reading this correctly, the authors point is that no personal ideology (I assume he also means religion) will make a person a better *homesteader[/B. He is speaking of politics and religion as being included in that statement. I think it remains to remains to be seen as to whether a person's ideology will make a homesteader a better person. For us, our religion helps make us better people than we otherwise would be. By extension, we would be better homesteaders as well. Being a good person is far more important to me than being a good homesteader. 

What I am concerned about regarding the homestead movement is that it can encourage people to place undue emphasis on this lifestyle/philosophy and way of living, to a point where it will become a replacement religion, or a different belief system altogether.

I see homesteading as pool of knowledge to achieve that which humans require. Wholesome food, excersise, shelter, beauty, service and that which leads to a life of self control and virtue and hopefully a better understanding of our place in this world. It's very hard to quickly define homesteading. 

In real life, not internet life, I have never heard any Christian flaunting the superiority of their own beliefs. Is this something that happens only on the internet? 


I'm not a homesteader, an eco freak, or an environmentalist, a local foodist, or whatever. Labels are so limiting, as the author has (sort of) stated. I will call myself a Roman Catholic, and a friend to Christ, a child of God, a mother, and a woman who is trying to live her vocation virtuously. Living this life includes growing my own food, learning to be thrifty, eating food as it was meant to be used, and protecting and caring for the land we have, homeschooling, but none of these things can come before my life in Christ and being a good person. 

Sorry if this sounds choppy, I had typed out bunches of stuff, but then went back and re-read his post, and I realized I was confused as to what the author was actually saying.*


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

as i read the above posts, it seems some people are in violent agreement. ie, i think the "disagreement" is that people are implicitly using slightly different definitions of "self-sufficient". Eg, are you self-sufficient if you own a shovel, or do you have to be able to smelt the ore, forge it yourself? Can you have a corp job to earn money to buy the shovel, or do you have to sell farm produce to buy it? As i read the examples various posters give, i suspect that everyone is actually fairly closely in agreement if the sorted thru the details of what they're talking about.

As for me, i'm looking to become more self-sufficient over time by buying tools that don't wear out, and don't become obsolete. Altho i don't know how to do that with computers and the internet, and i find the internet to be extremely useful so i'm not giving it up without a fight. 

i think the amish are wise for evaluating every technology carefully to see what impact it has on their life and community before jumping in to it wholesale. while i don't make exactly the same choices they do, and i make the choices myself not in a group, i think asking the question and thinking about it is incredibly worthwhile.

and at the risk of thread drift:



[email protected] LaudoDeumFa said:


> In real life, not internet life, I have never heard any Christian flaunting the superiority of their own beliefs. Is this something that happens only on the internet?


the book "unChristian" (which i have not read, but seen references to) is apparently a survey of non-Christian views of christianity (and how christians are supposed to respond). one reviewer on amazon summarized some of the statistics from the book. (i presume it's an accurate summary, but i don't know.)



> http://www.amazon.com/review/R8YIGA2YV38S5/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm
> 
> good news gone bad, January 9, 2008
> By Daniel B. Clendenin
> ...


according to this short excerpt from the book (pdf file; see pg 18), 37% of the 18-41 year olds are "outsiders to christianity", and 40% of the 16-29 year olds are as well. just find any of those numerous "outsiders to christianity", and the vast majority of them will tell you that christians "flaunt their superiority", even off the internet.

--sgl


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

sg, I can see where all that Christian ick is coming from. I'd just like to add the in REAL LIFE(just like how JO was relating their exprience), how do I say this without sounding weird---me and my husband get the comment "you sure dont' seem like Christians"(ha, I think they're saying the "usual" type). In other words we drink a lot of beer with the tax collectors and hos(and in fact prefer their company)--we dont' go to church, we are "out in the world". I've found that people are in fact very spiritual-minded, and are questioning and definately seeking something. I guess they say we dont' seem like Christians because we dont' hammer them with the four spiritual laws. Just try to be genuine and be honest in conversation. Sure it's rough out there, for everyone. I suspect that a lot of the bad taste is indeed because of the neurotic un-common sensical flighty cliquey behavior of Christians--stuck in junior high, high on rainbows. 

Just saying, in this path we have chosen to be in the world and not in the church(my hub went to seminary and was a pastor), I find PLENTY of people who are truly seeking "something" REAL, and lots of people are curious about Jesus and the Bible, but the church scares them off like a real bad stink(because it's not "real). I just try to be a good friend and be who I am and not bambify. I'm not afraid to say "I dont' know". I haven't "led anyone to Jesus" to pray the prayer. I hope people find what they need.

BTW, Oregon is one of the most un-churched states, meaning lowest church attendance and sparse historical church attendance. It's kind of an odd bird due to it's relatively recent settlement, and other things like the "rugged quirky individualism" of the PNW--AND we have a lot of resently publicised Christian sect screwups in the news in state, such as the court cases on non-medical intervention, and I'll throw in some skinheads and the Rajneesh. So just saying, a study like that conducted at OSU may well have different results that one in a different state--ha, like Texas, for instance. 

Ha, OSU is the ag/engineering school. My kids will be going there  If they woulda polled UO they would've gotten even "worse" results.

ANd I would add, well yeah people who are "thinking that about you" are doing so because there is NO RELATIONSHIP, you aren't friends. Genuine friendship makes a HUGE difference. Of course people who dont' know each other are going to judge on all sorts of easy labels--country of origin, skin color, rich/poor/hobo, how pretty/ugly. So that's kind of a DUH to me! Or maybe a DOH!

okay, so what was the original question? k, thinking about this from REAL LIFE again, the "homesteady" friends I have are creative thinkers(Red Greeny), they do for themselves, aren't afraid of hard manual labor(dont' think it's beneath them), have a deep and abiding love for the land/nature, and what really matters in life doesn't include politics or even religion(but rather spirituality) or even(heresy!) if one eats organic. Results speak for themselves


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## Ode (Sep 20, 2006)

[email protected] LaudoDeumFa said:


> I'm not a homesteader, an eco freak, or an environmentalist, a local foodist, or whatever. Labels are so limiting, as the author has (sort of) stated. I will call myself a Roman Catholic, and a friend to Christ, a child of God, a mother, and a woman who is trying to live her vocation virtuously. Living this life includes growing my own food, learning to be thrifty, eating food as it was meant to be used, and protecting and caring for the land we have, homeschooling, but none of these things can come before my life in Christ and being a good person.


Wouldn't eco freak be a label, then? Along the same lines as Jesus freak, bible thumper, and other such 'labels' which are meant to sound derogatory. I am sure you didn't mean for your post to have that tone, given what follows in the same paragraph. I am one who would take offense at such a term being applied to me, because I believe that protecting and caring for the land we have is very important for our future and our children's futures. I suppose that in some people's minds that would label me as an 'eco freak' but then again there are others who look at members of this forum and refer to the folks here as 'survivalist nutjobs' among other similar names that are applied purely to maintain their own sense of illusory superiority.

I try to live more by the "Judge not, that ye be not judged" principle where I believe firmly that the following is true, so we must be extremely careful when passing judgement on others for their choices in lifestyle. "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" 

And I would disagree with your statement that you are not a homesteader, because if you are here then you probably are. It isn't a new or replacement religion, it is an appreciation for the gift of the earth that we have been given guardianship over. Just because we are the dominant species on the planet, with the power to do pretty much what we want to do *simply because we can* is no reason to see just how far we can go towards destroying it. That's why I love the HT forums, because everyone here loves their land, home, and family and wants to do the best they can to preserve and protect them. Not everyone will take the same path towards this goal, but it seems to be the goal everyone is headed toward all the same.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

hey, I embrace "Jesus freak"  and I hug trees

*******
You know, sometimes I wonder where some of you all live  Where I am in Oregon(as well as in passing through places in Oregon waaaaaaay off the beaten path) is like 50 years ago, all the good things about knowing how, making do, being capable etc. It's like a parallel universe, very surreal, but a better world and it sure gives me hope and a YES! that that life remains perking along. Living in a more remote place weeds out the weak and lets the "freaks"(eco, vietnam vet, hillbilly, hunter gatherers, hippies, loners) thrive. I love this place! 

Course I know this is only my impression of my locale("un-churched" as it is, ha). But sometimes I feel sad for y'all that seem to feel so isolated in your homesteading lifestyle?


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## Space Cowboy (Apr 26, 2008)

Well said RP! As the thread drift indicates, I think most responses have been defensive responses to your brief statement about religion, rather than the core of what you have said. I also have to say that the excerpt from the book, rings true to me. WT's post is the kind of Christian friend I would listen to rather than the proselytizer.

SC


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

wyld thang said:


> ...... thinking about this from REAL LIFE again, the "homesteady" friends I have are creative thinkers (Red Greeny), they do for themselves, aren't afraid of hard manual labor (dont' think it's beneath them), have a deep and abiding love for the land/nature, *and what really matters in life doesn't include politics or even religion (but rather spirituality)* or even (heresy!) if one eats organic. Results speak for themselves.


Precisely the way I way I view myself and my homesteader friends lifestyles here too. Maybe it's a PNW coasters way of lifestyle :shrug: I don't know, but it's certainly laid back and easy going and combines the old technologies with the new technologies.

.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

reluctantpatriot said:


> _Note bene: Angie gave me permission and requested that I cross-post this here from General Chat where I originally posted it._
> 
> 
> Homesteading in the 21st century is not about striving to live like those in the 19th century or earlier on the most basic of technologies and thinking that one can be one hundred percent self-sufficient or self-reliant. We all depend upon someone else to provide resources we need, no matter how basic.
> ...


Well put.


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

reluctantpatriot said:


> _Note bene: Angie gave me permission and requested that I cross-post this here from General Chat where I originally posted it._
> 
> 
> Homesteading in the 21st century is not about striving to live like those in the 19th century or earlier on the most basic of technologies and thinking that one can be one hundred percent self-sufficient or self-reliant. We all depend upon someone else to provide resources we need, no matter how basic.
> ...


This is an older post but very relevant for today. We too combine some modern things into our homesteading lifestyle. Our things our simpler than what most people have but still require gas for the lawn tractor and a small generator. Hooked to the grid at our winter home we have freezers and lights., a toaster oven, dehydrator and hot plate to cook on and small tv to watch videos on and a computer. That is as modern as it gets here for us. 

When we had a work horse and mowing machine we also cut the yard grass with it or used a scythe. Modern things can make life easier. We just bought a 10x12ft shed. Previously we built a 10x12 ft cabin with wood from our wood lot that was hauled home with a work horse and milled by the local fellow who does mill work. We didn't build the present building because at 76 yrs my husband is getting lame and we also do not have a work horse to haul wood home any more. Life changes and modern things can make life easier.

Whenever I use anything that has to be paid for or requires electric I always think what would happen if we did not have electric power or gas or the lawn tractor, or a freezer or dehydrator? We have the knowledge to get along without these things if we have too. They make life easier as we get older but still in a crises situation we could still survive and feed ourselves and stay warm and throw the bucket down the well to get water. At the farm we have no power so from April to Oct we are more or less living like our ancestors did. Even when we had a work horse all our harnesses and equipment was refurbished from discarded items. Yes we could live by bartering, growing food as we do and seed. But combining some modern things with old time knowledge makes life easier as we age. Just keep in mind alternatives if you were forced into a situation where you need old time skills. 

One thing many people don't think about is property taxes. That requires money . So even living off the land money is still required for property taxes .Our taxes are not high but any extra money I get I pay ahead on property taxes to ensure if the time comes we have no income at least we still have the land to farm on. Times have changed since the pioneer days but much can be learned from our pioneer ancestors while still living with modern technology and enjoying its benefits.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I was reading and agreeing, until you started babbling about how we can't live as our grandparents did. Our grandparents used the technologies of their day. Bought their supplies at a store, or ordered it from a catalog. So claiming that we can't live like our grandparents is false. They didn't live in a cave wear animal skins, and eat roots and berries. Oh, by the way they made their own candles, soap, cider, vinegar, and whiskey. They paid taxes, shopped in a store, and sent their children to school. 

They argued about politics, religion, taxes, and inflation. What they didn't have to worry about was the government demanding that they allow boys to play girls sports, or men claiming to be women use the women's bathroom. They didn't have to worry about domestic terrorists burning, looting, and murdering people, with the consent and aid of government. (BLM) Our current vice president bonded rioters out of jail, so they could go out the next night and riot again.

They didn't have a government telling them they couldn't grow a garden, raise chickens, or how much food they could have in their pantry. Very soon, we won't be able to live like our grandparents did. Because our government won't allow it. But we ain't there yet.


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

reluctantpatriot said:


> Christians do not corner the market or control the homesteading arena no matter how much they flaunt the superiority of their belief system.


The same could be said about secular people when it comes to the superiority aspect. In fact, it's how this forum imploded several years ago and most Christians left due to that. Kind of like trying to beat, not a dead horse, but one that ran off a while ago.

Other than personal judgment and stereotyping, I agree with the facts and general premise.


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