# Better to have multiple out-buildings or one big barn?



## brettz (Jun 21, 2013)

I have five acres that we just farm for ourselves. We have a vegetable garden, chickens, a small orchard, and goats. Eventually we'd like to have bees, a horse or two and berries. It's just five acres and only 3.5 is level and useable. I'm currently trying to decide how to address our lack of out-buildings. I'd eventually love a 48x36 pole barn for the horses, goats, hay, storage, etc. But, barns are expensive and we're still laying out the property like we want it (fencing, planting, etc). I'm trying to decide if it makes more sense to bite the bullet and have a barn built in this next year so we simply have a space to store stuff and keep our animals or if it makes more sense to build smaller outbuildings as we need them to keep debt down and keep our options open for designing our dream barn when we have more money and maybe more of a concrete idea of what and where we want it. How have you guys addressed this? I'd love to hear what has, and has not, worked for you all.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I like a variety of buildings. Placed where convenient and built for the proper purpose. Might save in property tax as well.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Small sheds. I wanted to build a real barn but ran out of money. Since then small sheds have accumulated- like the 12x24 hay shed run off the back of the 12x24 horse run in shed. And the original goat shed followed by the one I threw up in a hurry when a preggo goat needed it.
I think, unless I had some large equipment to store, small sheds work fine.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

It's not such a big deal in OR but here I would want one barn. It's amazing how much warmer it is in the barn when the critter's body heat is your furnace. I would put them all in one building so they keep each other warm.


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## brettz (Jun 21, 2013)

That is great advice. I like the idea of working with what I have rather than biting off more than I can chew. I am trying to figure out how to create a run-in shed for two horses while also increasing the space for my goats. This is an interesting idea here... http://www.mulligansrun.com/ourbarn.php

I don't want to have to put horses in to eat - I prefer them choosing if they are in or out. And I would definitely want larger stalls since the weather is miserable here half the year. But, I like the center aisle and I like the idea of using a carport so I don't have to mess with learning how to roof quite yet. (bucket list)


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

We have a run in shed like that for our horses ( just metal roofing and siding). They love and so we do. Now that I see that, I want another one.


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## brettz (Jun 21, 2013)

well shoot - there is also this: http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/for/4504917800.html

the fourth picture looks like it would be a snap to convert into a barn. Not as classy looking as the other conversation but way more in line with my (lack of) skill level.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I have several barns. I have a simple roof on 4x4 post for a hay barn. I think the cost was about $4000.00 and I can store about 75 round bales of hay in the dry. No need to close in a fancy barn, just keep them dry. As for a bigger barn or shop I build my shop which is 30' x 60' with an additional 30' x 25' to park things under. it also has a 30' x 15' upper floor that is just for wood working. I built it over several years. You could do the same. I poured concrete for the first section 15' wide and 30' long then build that part with a sloped roof. I then used black plastic for the one wall. When I got the money. I went right beside it and poured another 15' wide section of concrete went on up with the same roof pitch and used the black plastic again. then another section. When I got to the 4th section, I was up 2 levels and peaked the roof and started down the other way. this way you can build a little a long as you get money but still end up with one building, that looks like you built it all at once. You do have to plan out the final size and allow for the room around to build and also make sure the grade is such that your last pour of concrete is still above the ground at the level you want.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Here in Western Oregon a metal roof with no barrier will sweat bad if closed in, with animals it is more like raining inside at times. We put up a small barn, 12'x 24', 12' eaves then put on leantos on both sides 2 years later for stalls. Years later we added another 12' more length to the back and finally, extended the leantos. The whole barn was 4"x4" treated posts with plywood sheathing up 4' on the inside. Sheathed plywood on rafters, tar paper with metal roofing, metal siding. We had paddocks on 3 sides, front facing the driveway for easy storage and hay delivery. Nice to be able to walk into the barn to stay dry and have everything close for easy chores. Size it to your needs but can be done as needed....James


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## brettz (Jun 21, 2013)

Oh that's a good point, had not thought of that. Do either of you folks have pictures of your barns? I would love to see them. I like the idea of starting with something and adding on with time.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

My internet here is pretty slow, but I will see if I can get a few to load.
This picture is of my shop. You can see the stables behind it. I build this whole building in 15' sections from the far end working to the carport. If you look on the side you can see where the last stain I bought did not match. I would suggest waiting until completely finished to paint. All the same color stain, but different batches and just was off a bit? I worked on this building for about 2 years, building sections as I could afford it.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Here is a before picture, as in before it was finished. This is the end the carport was added to. I painted all of the OSB as I was going with a good exterior paint, since it would be exposed to the weather for a while before I added the siding. A little extra cost, but I think worth it. I then covered it all in 12" hardi board when I was finished. 
The metal roofing will sweat. I use the bubble wrap insulation under all metal roofs I put up. The stuff comes in 4' and 6' widths and is basically bubble wrap that is silver on the top side and white on the bottom. I would not build much of any metal roof building without using it. makes a world of difference for very little added cost. over 30 degrees difference in the summer.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Ok I will try some of my stables, since those loaded? I will come back and explain later, so check back if you just see pictures

I basically did the dirt work and ran out of money. I build up with clay until the last 1' then I added gravel, so it would all drain good and shored up the side with limestone rip rap. Then I set my 4x4 post and framed for my concrete. 10' center section, which is the only concrete. I used 2x4's to brace my post so they would not twist and box and waited for more money. Next came the deck for the upper floor. Covered it with plastic, no more money. framed up the top and added the roof for the top, NMM(no more money). Then I added one side simple post and framed and tinned roof NMM. Next added the other side the same NMM. then I started sheeting. I sheeted the top in so it was dry and left it. I then worked on getting the stable area finished. I did add 2 more concreted areas. One section which is a feed room and on the opposite end another section that is a tach. room. I have open stalls on the right side and on the left side is the tach room 2 stalls then the feed room. all stall cleanings get dumped out the end and can be scooped up with the tractor.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Here is another stable picture. This was built in sections also
As you can see upstairs there is an open balcony on one end and a 10' x 34' room. The room has a full bath and kitchenette. there is also a small toilet/sink downstairs. I eventually put in 4 windows down each side, fully insulated it all but the floor. added laminate floor and osb interior walls that we simply painted. The interior ceiling is Luan we stained and varnished. It is a nice meeting room. The kids use it for sleep overs. It also makes a nice apartment for guest.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

we will try again, lost connection

Still not totally finished, but I do not seem to have a finished picture on my computer. I eventually added the same stained hardi board siding as my shop. The upstairs balcony is very nice to set out on in the evenings and look out over my riding arena and pasture. I have a full size picnic table up there. The room on the left is the tach room. This has been a very well used building since completion. Always a dry place to put a sick animal. always a dry place to cross tie and groom. This building was build over probably close to 2 years. Plan well and stop at a good stopping point, even if you have money to go a little farther. The most important part is the roof. If you can get the roof up so everything under stays dry, then you can take your time.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Here is my simple little hay barn
This is a very simple barn, but honestly it is the basis for all of my building, simple post construction. I do my roof a bit different than most probably. Some may think it not strong enough, but I have had no issue. I connect my rafters directly to the post. I run 2x6's horizontally to connect the tops of the post together (side to side). Then I run 2x6 rafters front to back from the post, one on each side. Then I run a 2x6 rafter halfway in between the post, setting on top of the 2x6's connecting the post. I know it does not go along with the traditional 2' spacing, but I am not done. For nailing strips for my tin roof I use 2x4's, but not laying down, I stand them up on the 2x6 rafters. Here is what I do. figure your overhang on each end and the total length you will need your nailers. then buy 2x4's so you can overlap them 4' or so at each joint to get that total length. nail them up on the ground, so they are all the exact same length. Then put them up in place, and even one end, the other end will be even, because they are all the same length. This is where the remainder of the roof strength comes in. A combination of 2x6 rafters and 2x4 nail strips, both on edge. Some may not like the idea, but it uses the least amount of lumber, which reduces cost and has held up fine for me under winter snow. The 1 1/2" edge of the 2x4 makes for a small target for the screws in the tin, so I usually screw one piece at a time and take my time, so I do not miss. By the way I set my nail strips on 2' centers. Most of my buildings have either an 18" or 24" overhang, I like to keep my walls dry.
You will also notice the hay barn has a large front overhang. The overhang actually extends a bit over 4' which allowed me to get one more row of hay in front, under the roof, without having to add any more post. I was also able to keep a shorter rafter span on the back side by doing this.
I am not saying my way is the best way. I know it has worked well for me and I have build many other buildings in this same style with no issues. I hope some of this information can help you see it is possible to build a little along, as you have money, and still end up with a nice building that does not look cobbled together, if you plan for it before you start.


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## brettz (Jun 21, 2013)

That is one phenomenal barn!!! Seriously, that is something to be very proud of - very functional, awesome looking, and a place to enjoy your property and animals. That is impressive  Thank you for sharing


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

I think a lot depends on your location, the weather & soils, whether you need heat/power/light, what you want to store in the building, and how much money you have.

The main issues with 1 big vs. many small is the complexity of the building, and ultimately the cost of the building. Big footprints often mean big budgets. A big building needs a bigger and better foundation, and a bigger and better roof, often resulting in bigger and more expensive materials. So if you don't really need to store all that stuff together for some other reason (power/water/heat), smaller buildings may work out better in the long run.

In addition to reduced complexity and expense, many smaller targeted-use buildings allows you to build what you need, when and where you need it whenever you can afford it. Each building can be constructed specifically for its purpose, letting you save costs by only having the features necessary for that application. You can choose less expensive/complex foundations, floorings, framing and roofing materials for those buildings that don't need to be ultra-sturdy. And you can build smaller buildings on skids so that they can be easily moved later if necessary. Works great for things like chicken coops & other animal houses, woodsheds, garden sheds, etc if you don't need to run permanent utilities to them... just hook up the truck/tractor/ATV and drag them to where they're needed this season/year.

If you design a semi-portable modular shed based on standard material sizes, you can quickly construct as many sheds as you need and then just tweak the interiors or add special features when you need to. Two people can easily put up a modularized 8x8 shed with homemade roof trusses in weekend.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I would just add a few other considerations. Insurance. You may want to check with your insurance company, as some building types they may insure differently, or not at all? If you plan to run electricity to your building, this is another consideration. most electric companies will not run service to a portable building, also see where the service is available first. The closer you can build to existing service probably the better. The third is long term resale or value of your property. A permanent structure, well build may add tremendous value to your property, while many cheap portable buildings may not? Tax issues. many zoning issues may come up and a permanent building may be taxed differently than a portable building. Also in some areas there may be restrictions on one or the other. Just some things to consider.


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

I do not know if this has been said or not, but if the thought of *FIRE scares one*, 

the old timers, many times built a lot of little building *spread* out to where they could be defensible if a prairie fire came through or one building caught fire,

if you have a large multi purpose building and fire does strike, in a country situation, the main reason for a fire department is to keep the fire from spreading, most of the time by the time they get there saving the building or contents is not very likely, (they may be able to put it out but not save it). 

if you have a shop, barn, hay, animals a lot is lost in a hurry, with some smaller buildings, one is not back to square One if loss happens, 

in our area all the old buildings are built up on concrete foundations about 24" up, the purpose was to have a non combustible material where the grass was in hopes if a grass fire did burn through the concrete would be enough so that the wood on the building did not catch fire, 

(I have a old barn that is 60x65') and as about the only standing building I remodeled it in to a shop, the center is 30'x48', but do to its size I use the sheds for storage, and the back has my meat cutting room, and there is a milk room for the goats, 

I personally wish the meat room was separate, and the milk room as well, if fire would happened a lot would be lost, (and most insurance you buy is not as good as the agent makes you think it is), 
(this was not fire, went in this spring and got farm insurance, she said that is what I wanted, I got hail on roofs took one out total, I call in and she says I should not turn in a claim as it is "actual cost" not replacement cost insurance, they will deprecate out the roof and if it is over 5 years old they will not give you anything for it, so I asked what good is the insurance, and she says you would have to have a total loss before it covers, much, and I asked then why did you say that is what I needed? 
yes in a fire they would have possibly given me the "actual vale" they set, minus the deductible and so on, but I bet I would not have enough to buy materials even, alone build a new building, 

building in a way that will protect your self and your property is a wise thing to do, 

on this farm, the current standing barn is the third one built, the first two burnt down, and the current did have a fire in it, all do to spontaneous combustion, (it was caught early enough they saved the building).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DOLLAR wise, one large building per square foot will most likely be lower cost per square foot, over some smaller buildings, 
Smaller buildings lower cost over all by building, 

some would depend if you plan on pay as you go, or borrow a large lump sum and build big, 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If I was starting out I would want some buildings separate hay sheds, animal enclosure, shops, 

(if combined, would be shops and possibly of storage/garage areas, 

My Two Cents


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Going along with the previous poster, I have to agree fire is a consideration. This is why I do not like combined hay storage/ livestock areas. There has been several hay barns burn down in the last few years here I know of, due to hay put up too wet and spontaneous combustion. This is why I have a separate hay barn that is well away from other buildings. I would strongly suggest hay storage buildings be separate and well away from other structures, if at all possible.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I want my hay storage at point of use, not have to slog around in the mud to feed. When I farmed I had cattle and sheep separate but on my small place the goats, rabbits and chickens all get the same hay so it is in 1 central area and used in each lean to. I have loose hay, round bales are a lot different to feed than small squares, too. The taller center section of a barn with leantos works great for hay and/or other storage, livestock in the lower leanto....James


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

Separation is definitely a big positive to many smaller buildings. Like others have mentioned, fire is a big concern especially with combustibles... hay, fuel, firewood, and lumber should all be stored away from each other and away from other structures. 

There's also contamination issues to consider. You don't want toxins (fuel, pesticides, etc) in with your livestock or livestock feed. You don't want those toxins and potential pathogens/parasites from your livestock around your food. 

And if you don't absolutely need to keep your animals all together in a single heated barn, keeping them separate helps minimize cross-contamination and epidemics. Having portable housing for them that you move regularly also minimizes pathogen load in a single area... dedicated, full-time barnyards can become horrible pathogen/parasite hotspots over time. If your livestock is housed separately, at least by species, if one batch gets sick you can easily quarantine them and even burn/dispose of the structure afterward if it's something really serious.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Depending on the neighbors?? Security may also be a concern?? make sure if there is doors to building where you may store valuable equipment they are not on the off side where someone could easily break in hidden from your view??


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