# Shootings in TN



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

What is happening in TN? I came here to find out what local folks are saying about attacks on Military recruiting stations but no one has posted. I find that unsettling...

God be with the military personnel injured and their families.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Fox news and drudge have stuff up now. Press conference is supposed to be soon.

Praying for people in that area to connect quickly with their loved ones, so people there can get sorted who is OK and who needs to get to the hospital to be with victims.

So sad for their community.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

There were several casualites. http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/29563843/officer-involved-shooting-at-us-naval-reserve

4 Marines were shot and killed. The shooter is dead. He shot them from his car through the window, used some kind of high powered military gun.

More shot at another Navy building.


Pentagon will not confirm these deaths. They say they will put out a statement very soon.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

This is such a sad day! A Chattanooga Police officer is also shot and has had surgery.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Just flipped to fox news, they are awaiting a update.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

gapeach said:


> There were several casualites. http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/29563843/officer-involved-shooting-at-us-naval-reserve
> 
> 4 Marines were shot and killed. *The shooter is dead.* He shot them from his car through the window, used some kind of high powered military gun.
> 
> ...


I am glad someone saved the taxpayers a couple million bucks by offloading this pest.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

One man was shot in the leg. He was there to sign up for the Navy assuming that the news knows this for sure.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

The mariners may all be dead that were shot. How awful.

It annoys the crap out of me that on duty military don't carry.

I think carry laws should be way more open for everybody period.

But, its gonna twist me up bad if I hear these guys were out gunned and on duty.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I just heard one of the news men say that there are no guns in the recruiting office. Who would ever think a guy is going to drive up in a Mustang convertible and shoot everybody that he could see inside?

It has been confirmed that there were shootings at 2 different locations.

I want our military to be able to defend themselves!
I&#8217;m mad, too!
Fort Hood massacre enraged me. I&#8217;ll never forget how many warning signs were there to prevent it.




May God be with those who mourn.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Press conference is supposed to start now.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

This is just gut wrenching.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

I hate this kind of stuff. I very much appreciate the good people who have chosen careers in law enforcement and military.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

> Two law enforcement sources told CBS News that the shooting suspect was identified as Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-police-officer-shot-near-tennessee-army-recruiting-center/


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I just heard this on the radio.^
The tv has not mentioned this.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

It has been officially declared as Terrorism. Domestic Terrorism.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

gapeach said:


> It has been officially declared as Terrorism. Domestic Terrorism.


I was waiting for that....


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

I don't suppose anyone wants to revisit the Jade Helm thread and posts about coming psy-ops....


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

ISIS terrorist tweeted 1 minute before the attack &#1575;&#1576;&#1608; &#1605;&#1581;&#1605;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1582;&#1585;&#1575;&#1587;&#1575;&#1606;&#1610; &#8207;@K_H_O7777777777 O Americans Dogs soon YOU Will see wonders #Chattanooga #USA #ISIS So there ya go..


this was ISIS and these marines were sitting ducks because they were NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE GUNS ON THE PROPERTY

Pamela Geller on her twitter account posted how this tweet was sent out a few minutes before the attack Pamela Geller &#8207;@PamelaGeller 38m38 minutes ago Pamela Geller retweeted &#1575;&#1576;&#1608; &#1605;&#1581;&#1605;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1582;&#1585;&#1575;&#1587;&#1575;&#1606;&#1610; ISIS supporter tweeted at 10:34 am. Shooting began at 10:45 am http://pamelageller.com/?p=68618

What about bullet proof vests?????


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

It was Bill Clinton that took away their right to carry.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

7thswan said:


> It was Bill Clinton that took away their right to carry.


Yes, but there has been a lot of hands that have stripped guns away from a lot of people and places over the years.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

:facepalm: Not a bit surprising! :hand: He was a draft dodger, anyway.

They sure better be putting our soldiers back with their guns.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/... 
The gunman was killed by police, a U.S. official said. The suspect was identified by NBC News as *Muhammad* *Youssef* *Abdulazeez*, a naturalized U.S. citizen from *Kuwait*.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

gibbsgirl said:


> Yes, but there has been a lot of hands that have stripped guns away from a lot of people and places over the years.


true, but what kind of sence is it to take them from our Military?


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

Can't wait for all those Syrian refugees to get here. They've already started to arrive and the government has admitted they have no way to properly vet them.

Stay alert everyone. And pray. Ideology is trumping common sense and public safety.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

7thswan said:


> true, but what kind of sence is it to take them from our Military?


Oh none at all. But, I guess people thought it wasn't unreasonable at the time sinc they'd already taken it so far with all the rest of the citizens.

I'm so anti gun free zones its not even funny.

My mother missed being at the north Hollywood b of a bank shootout by 10 minutes years ago. 

Disarming citizens was all well and good according to some. They don't get that just gives criminals a bigger advantage.

Nowadays we keep seeing what a disadvantage EV n law enforcement and military have against arned criminals, and it absolutely floors me that people don't get that the 2nd amendment was there because when good people can be arned to the teeth, the bad people can't gave their wY with them


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Jade Helm Officially began yesterday. 
Posts from the thread:
_
Woolieface - One of the points I've tried to make about all these government infringements is that the sort of thing you describe is what They might like to happen. The government is dividing people, propagandizing people, pushing their weight around to get a reaction...because that's the excuse they need.

They don't need it to be real, mind you...they can, and will make things up, but whether it's real or not, it will look like a believable enough premise to enough of the population to bring down a system of severe oppression on people. Plenty will cheer for the extraction of dissidents whether or not there are any real "dissidents". - 226

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Patchouli - We were talking about this today. I was wondering if this is potentially the plan to rile people up enough to attack a few soldiers which would then give the government an excuse to invoke martial law or whatever else they are aiming for here, then wouldn't the prudent thing to do be to stop all the talk about Jade Helm? Seems like that puts the ball in your court? Stop blowing it up, make sure no one goes off half cocked and plan thwarted. - 234

-------

wooliface - No...I don't think silence ever has gotten us anything good. It deserves to be mentioned that the government should even Consider attempting to foment a civil war type scenario. That is treasonous activity. Why in the world should we be silent? That does neither civilians nor soldiers any favors. 235_
.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

We are told that we are not supposed to discriminate against someone&#8217;s beliefs when the want to enter this country, even if their beliefs call for the destruction of our country.:flame:



Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez was booked as Mohammad Youssduf...
mugshot: http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...fired-tennessee-riverpark-chattanooga/314944/

his high school yearbook quote in Hixon TN. My name causes a National Security Alert. What does yours do?

I sure don't feel sorry for him. He had a great home and an Engineering education at a Tennessee University. Look how he ended up as a terrorist murderer.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gapeach said:


> One man was shot in the leg. He was there to sign up for the Navy *assuming* that the news knows this for sure.


It's better to assume (if you must assume) nothing you hear in the first 48 hours is true, since reporters like to be "first" rather than "accurate"


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

gapeach said:


> ISIS terrorist tweeted 1 minute before the attack &#1575;&#1576;&#1608; &#1605;&#1581;&#1605;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1582;&#1585;&#1575;&#1587;&#1575;&#1606;&#1610; &#8207;@K_H_O7777777777 O Americans Dogs soon YOU Will see wonders #Chattanooga #USA #ISIS So there ya go..
> 
> 
> this was ISIS and these marines were sitting ducks because they were NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE GUNS ON THE PROPERTY
> ...


 Even tho Obama was given this information. He still states it's just a lone gunmen.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Woolieface said:


> I don't suppose anyone wants to revisit the Jade Helm thread and posts about coming psy-ops....


Yes, it *must be* Jade Helm, even though Jade Helm has nothing to do with a base in TN


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's better to assume (if you must assume) nothing you hear in the first 48 hours is true, since reporters like to be "first" rather than "accurate"


He has been treated at the hospital and released. He was a Marine recruit. Thank God he never made it inside. He did not know he was shot until he and others saw the blood on his pants.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Marshloft said:


> Even tho Obama was given this information. He still states it's just a lone gunmen.


I saw his statement and it was a big bunch of nothing. After 7 years you learn not to expect anything from him so then you are not disappointed.
He did not say workplace violence, at least. I wonder if he will call the deceased Marine's families and apologize for them not being armed. It did not matter if they had guns this time, since the killer was in his car but it might matter to the next victims.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

gapeach said:


> I saw his statement and it was a big bunch of nothing. After 7 years you learn not to expect anything from him so then you are not disappointed.
> He did not say workplace violence, at least. I wonder if he will call the deceased Marine's families and apologize for them not being armed. It did not matter if they had guns this time, since the killer was in his car but it might matter to the next victims.


And do they deserved the Purple Heart we can see later.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Woolieface said:


> I don't suppose anyone wants to revisit the Jade Helm thread and posts about coming psy-ops....


How did I know you people would go there.....


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Another member of the peaceful religion. I'm surprised we haven't seen more of this but I guarantee we will in the future.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gapeach said:


> I saw his statement and it was a big bunch of nothing. After 7 years you learn not to expect anything from him so then you are not disappointed.
> He did not say workplace violence, at least. I wonder if he will call the deceased Marine's families and apologize for them not being armed. It did not matter if they had guns this time, since the killer was in his car but it might matter to the next victims.


Your last 2 sentences directly contradict each other. Why should he apologise if it wouldn't have helped them anyways?


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

gapeach said:


> I saw his statement and it was a big bunch of nothing. After 7 years you learn not to expect anything from him so then you are not disappointed.
> He did not say workplace violence, at least. I wonder if he will call the deceased Marine's families and apologize for them not being armed. It did not matter if they had guns this time, since the killer was in his car but it might matter to the next victims.


 Well, I get the fact someone in authority shouldn't make any real statements till _all_ the facts are in. But, as you said, he does continue to refuse to connect the dots even tho the military bases and their families have been warned by HS to be on the lookout.
Time will tell.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> Your last 2 sentences directly contradict each other. Why should he apologise if it wouldn't have helped them anyways?


Well, he could say that he is changing that rule so that it won't happen to someone else. I just hope he does call the families. I am so sad that they were murdered right here in their own country, it is hard to even think logically.

It is after the fact that all Federal bldgs are now on high alert. It has only been a couple of wks that the FBI Director addressed the fact that they had so many threats against the Military. It is really just sickening that we cannot protect our military in their own country.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

gapeach said:


> I saw his statement and it was a big bunch of nothing. After 7 years you learn not to expect anything from him so then you are not disappointed.
> He did not say workplace violence, at least. I wonder if he will call the deceased Marine's families and apologize for them not being armed. It did not matter if they had guns this time, since the killer was in his car but it might matter to the next victims.


OMG... he looked sick(scared "crap"less, like he and his muslim buddys just got found out.
Like we don't all know that he is a muslime and the goal is to let them infeltrate our Country, just like obama has done to our government.Hahahaha, go out there obarfo and act like"OMG ALLAha"how did This happen now on MY time???(stupid fools, hold your pants on until I give the say so)


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

By the way recruiters were never armed. The only ones that carry arms full times are Payroll officers and MP. Some times some other carry but not everybody.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> Your last 2 sentences directly contradict each other. Why should he apologise if it wouldn't have helped them anyways?




Because we have told everyone, it is an Honor for a Muslim to lie to further the muslim 'religion" cult , so they lie. Lieing is good, their "god" says it's a good/ ok thing. So conflicting info is nothing , reporting it , gets real dicey


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

7thswan said:


> OMG... he looked sick(scared "crap"less, like he and his muslime buddys just got found out.
> Like we don't all know that he is a muslim and the goal is to let them infeltrate our Country, just like obama has done to our government.Hahahaha, go out there obarfo and act like"OMG ALLAha"how did This happen now on MY time???(stupid fools, hold your pants on until I give the say so)


Not sure whether to :hysterical: or :facepalm:..... Maybe :hrm:  :spinsmiley:


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

7thswan said:


> Because we have told everyone, it is an Honor for a muslim to lie to further the muslim 'religion" cult , so they lie. Lieing is good, their "god" says it's a good/ ok thing. So conflicting info is nothing , reporting it , gets real dicey


That makes no sense either but that is par for the course so far.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> That makes no sense either but that is par for the course so far.


No one in the media or gov. is going to admit that letting known killers(muslims) into this Country is a bad idea.We just don't need them.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Old Vet said:


> By the way recruiters were never armed. The only ones that carry arms full times are Payroll officers and MP. Some times some other carry but not everybody.


*Old Ve*t, they never had to be armed before but they have to be armed now. It just makes me so angry that these Marines went to work this morning and got gunned down by a Jihadist in their own country! This peacenik that we have for a POTUS has not protected this country. He has never admitted that we are at war with Radical Muslim Jihadists! 

We lost 4 MARINES today in Chattanooga, Tennessee, for God's sake! Can he not admit it NOW?


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

gapeach said:


> *Old Ve*t, they never had to be armed before but they have to be armed now. It just makes me so angry that these Marines went to work this morning and got gunned down by a Jihadist in their own country! This peacenik that we have for a POTUS has not protected this country. He has never admitted that we are at war with Radical Muslim Jihadists!
> 
> We lost 4 MARINES today in Chattanooga, Tennessee, for God's sake! Can he not admit it NOW?


The only thing we'll hear from him is we need gun control :flame:


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

It has been known for several months that ISIS wants lone wolves to attack military members here in the states and have been calling for it at every turn. Bulletins have gone out to family members of service members as well.

The FBI Director two weeks ago warned about it and even said they ISIS is able to post messages on Twitter that are untraceable. It is not like there were no threats!

Even military wives have been threatened.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Knowing and stopping are far different things


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

gapeach said:


> *Old Ve*t, they never had to be armed before but they have to be armed now. It just makes me so angry that these Marines went to work this morning and got gunned down by a Jihadist in their own country! This peacenik that we have for a POTUS has not protected this country. He has never admitted that we are at war with Radical Muslim Jihadists!
> 
> We lost 4 MARINES today in Chattanooga, Tennessee, for God's sake! Can he not admit it NOW?


I wouldn't be against that. Even the Reserves and National Guard and even Retired Members should carry all the times. But since I am Retired that would include me.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

ISIS tweet today minutes before the attacks:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKDqjbJWoAEKRaH.jpg


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

7thswan said:


> No one in the media or gov. is going to admit that letting known killers(muslims) into this Country is a bad idea.We just don't need them.


Well, it's a bad idea unless your goal is to create a problem that only an oppressive police state can "fix"...then it might be viewed as a raging success by those who have such a goal.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

my3boys said:


> Can't wait for all those Syrian refugees to get here. They've already started to arrive and the government has admitted they have no way to properly vet them.
> 
> Stay alert everyone. And pray. Ideology is trumping common sense and public safety.


Well, I am praying that the next people who face an attack like this are able to overcome it without loss of life.

I'm trying to wrap up my evening here, and have prayed to thank God for allowing me to have my family all safe and well.

I can't imagine what the families of the deceased are facing this evening. To lose a relative that is a service member when they were not abroad in a combat zone, must be especially devastating.


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

First we need a president that doesn't cosy up to them at every opportunity.

_Michelle and I would like to extend our warmest wishes to Muslims in the United States and around the world celebrating Eid-ul-Fitr," *the statement reads*. "As Muslims mark the end of the month, they are reminded that Ramadan is a time to reflect spiritually, build communally, and aid those in need. While Eid marks the end of Ramadan, it marks a new beginning for each individual &#8212; a reason to celebrate and express gratitude on this holiday."

_
​


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gapeach said:


> ISIS tweet today minutes *before* the attacks:
> 
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKDqjbJWoAEKRaH.jpg


It's now been determined that was actually posted after the attacks, which is why I suggest waiting 48 hours before believing initial reports:

http://gawker.com/isis-didnt-actually-tweet-a-warning-about-the-chattan-1718365270


> ISIS Didn't Actually Tweet a "Warning" About the â¦
> Gawker Â· 13 minutes ago
> This afternoon, an apparent ISIS supporter tweeted the above ... in the right-wing media reported that the tweet constituted an advance warning


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's now been determined that was actually posted after the attacks, which is why I suggest waiting 48 hours before believing initial reports:
> 
> http://gawker.com/isis-didnt-actually-tweet-a-warning-about-the-chattan-1718365270


Huh? So you're breaking your own 48 hour rule?


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

I was listening to morning news today ... two things stood out to me:

1) Several different reporters and government representatives stated that there is no known motive for the killings. SERIOUSLY????? 

2) A man in uniform who worked at one of the locations attacked (I do not remember which of the two) said they barricaded themselves in the back and hid until help arrived. I bet that if they were allowed to carry guns, they would not be hiding in the back and waiting for help. We are not talking about a convenience store clerk during a robbery, this is our military we are talking about! 

Sad state of things ...


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

FarmerKat said:


> I was listening to morning news today ... two things stood out to me:
> 
> 1) Several different reporters and government representatives stated that there is no known motive for the killings. SERIOUSLY?????
> 
> ...


And since Obama is Commander in Chief, he could write an executive order today authorizing military folks to be armed while in uniform. But he won't, even though this isn't the first terror attack on our military in this country.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

FarmerKat said:


> I was listening to morning news today ... two things stood out to me:
> 
> 1) Several different reporters and government representatives stated that there is no known motive for the killings. SERIOUSLY?????


The man leading the investigation is Bill Killian, U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Tennessee, a known Muslim apologist and Obama political appointee.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

I have a hard time supporting most things being resolved in court, because I think it's such an abused option.

But, in this case, I think it would be good for some attorneys to get involved in suing the dod, pres, military, etc for knowingly ordering them to carry out their duties with known threats and failing to allow them to be armed sufficiently to respond to attacks.

I wonder if that might not do something to combat this gun free zone nonsense.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

FarmerKat said:


> I was listening to morning news today ... two things stood out to me:
> 
> 1) Several different reporters and government representatives stated that there is no known motive for the killings. SERIOUSLY?????
> 
> ...


Because a fire fight in a crowded shopping center with civilians in the crossfire would have been so much better.....


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## FutureFarm (Mar 1, 2013)

That is the exact same situation the military is trained to do overseas. You'd rather have them as sitting ducks, fish in a barrel? Every other citizen has the right to self defense at work. Why not our military? How often have people tried to kill your coworkers?


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Obama says a lone wolf gunman carried out the attack. Where is the I word?


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

It is known now that Mohammed took a month long trip last year to Jordan.
Investigators are now checking what he did while on that trip and who he met with.

WSJ is working on the story.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> Because a fire fight in a crowded shopping center with civilians in the crossfire would have been so much better.....


The shooter initiated the fire fight against military personnel. No one would be faulting law enforcement or civilians for engaging him right there, IMO. And, if our military people at that site had been able to return fire, perhaps this man could have been stopped there, and the second site where people died would not have ev n happened.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

The female Sailor who was shot is in very serious condition. She had surgery during the night and made it through the surgery. I sure hope and pray that she recovers.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> Because a fire fight in a crowded shopping center with civilians in the crossfire would have been so much better.....


There was a firefight anyway, unarming 1 side makes it better? What about common sence? The terrorist KNEW there would be no weapons on site, that he could kill as many as he could take aim at. Simply knowing that gave him More time to kill More people. Why is it that it always goes back to us haveing to be unable to protect ourself because of "what If"s" -it's the Military for Heavens sake.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

gibbsgirl said:


> The shooter initiated the fire fight against military personnel. No one would be faulting law enforcement or civilians for engaging him right there, IMO. And, if our military people at that site had been able to return fire, perhaps this man could have been stopped there, and the second site where people died would not have ev n happened.


This... As old dead grandpa used to say when he was moonshining You got to be able to shoot back at any body that's shooting at you...


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

To add knowing that he the shooter would be facing an armed target is somewhat a deterrent. The thought process that some of the best trained in urban conflict should not be armed is a stretch.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

no really said:


> To add knowing that he the shooter would be facing an armed target is somewhat a deterrent. The thought process that some of the best trained in urban conflict should not be armed is a stretch.


Wish I could double like this post. More armed citizens is a deterrent against any person for any reason to commit any crime or threaten any life.

Disarming us all so extensively, is no different than when the schools fanned the flames of bullying by criminalizing all fighting in schools. It became open season for bullies, when even kids who fought back in self defense lost the right to protect themselves without undue repercussions from those in authority.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

gibbsgirl said:


> Wish I could double like this post. More armed citizens is a deterrent against any person for any reason to commit any crime or threaten any life.
> 
> Disarming us all so extensively, is no different than when the schools fanned the flames of bullying by criminalizing all fighting in schools. It became open season for bullies, when even kids who fought back in self defense lost the right to protect themselves without undue repercussions from those in authority.


Our new Sheriff is actively going all out on citizens to get their conceal carry permit....:banana:


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

gapeach said:


> The female Sailor who was shot is in very serious condition. She had surgery during the night and made it through the surgery. I sure hope and pray that she recovers.


Navy updated that this was a male, not female.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

When the wife picked me up and told me about it I told her I bet we find out it was a gun free zone. About 30 seconds later the radio reporter said that all federal offices are gun free zones.

Now because we know that NO ONE would bring a gun into a gun free zone we must assume that this didn't really happen and is some kind of false flag op. We will later find out that the shooter was NOT a follower of Islam but a Southern ******* with a Confederate battle flag on his pickup who thought the two Marines were a gay couple going to a masquerade party in honor of the person formally called Bruce Jenner. Therefore not only must stronger federal gun control laws be enacted but more laws protecting gays, transgenders and people who like to go to masquerade parties.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

'This life is short and bitter': How Chattanooga gunman posted cryptic Islamic blog three days before shooting dead four Marines as SWAT team raid his home and remove two women in handcuffs
Four marines killed after suspect opened fire in two separate attacks in Chattanooga, Tennessee 
At least three others, including a police officer, were injured in the shootings at a military recruitment center and a U.S. Naval Reserve Center
Gunman Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez, 24, was then shot and killed by police 
He was a muslim college graduate with a degree in electrical engineering 
He published two blog posts on Monday, saying life is 'a test' to 'separate the inhabitants of Paradise from the inhabitants of Hellfire'
Two women were taken in handcuffs from his home in the upscale suburb of Hixson
By ASHLEY COLLMAN and WILLS ROBINSON FOR DAILYMAIL.COM and ASSOCIATED PRESS and REUTERS


PUBLISHED: 11:17 EST, 16 July 2015 | UPDATED: 11:41 EST, 17 July 2015


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-four-marines-one-critical.html#ixzz3gAU68pI6 


This Muslim guy was not born in the USA but in Kuwait. Islam teaches hate against nonbelievers, this country is full of every religion but yet they want to come here.:flame:


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

gapeach said:


> 'This life is short and bitter': How Chattanooga gunman posted cryptic Islamic blog three days before shooting dead four Marines as SWAT team raid his home and remove two women in handcuffs
> Four marines killed after suspect opened fire in two separate attacks in Chattanooga, Tennessee
> At least three others, including a police officer, were injured in the shootings at a military recruitment center and a U.S. Naval Reserve Center
> Gunman Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez, 24, was then shot and killed by police
> ...


It's part of their religious belifs so ya, they want to come here, it's an honor for them to follow in the footsteps of muhamad,- murdering, rapeing, ect. That is why it isn't going to stop and hasen't stopped sinse the "religion" was invented. Why people can't understand that is beyond me.Because it's called a religion dosen't make it something good or acceptable. Look at leftys, they can't even belive in a religion because it dosen't jive with their own personal prefrences-so simply on that basis they reject religion. But somehow they defend islam. Evil is ok to those that protect islam.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

7thswan said:


> It was Bill Clinton that took away their right to carry.


Nope. I was in during the early 70's, and the only place you were allowed a weapon was in a combat zone, or on a firing range. Big signs everywhere else.

Which makes military bases and such sitting ducks, odd as that seems.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

TnAndy said:


> Nope. I was in during the early 70's, and the only place you were allowed a weapon was in a combat zone, or on a firing range. Big signs everywhere else.
> 
> Which makes military bases and such sitting ducks, odd as that seems.


Here it says clinton:Bill Clinton instituted the ban on armed military personnel. Islamic groups and jihadists are targeting our military people, give them back their weapons. - See more at: http://pamelageller.com/2015/07/4-m...is-tweeted-warning.html/#sthash.sk0zdmgi.dpuf
I also keep hearing it all over, but I sure did not look it up.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

7thswan said:


> It was Bill Clinton that took away their right to carry.


Democrats always side against America


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gibbsgirl said:


> The shooter initiated the fire fight against military personnel. No one would be faulting law enforcement or civilians for engaging him right there, IMO. And, if our military people at that site had been able to return fire, perhaps this man could have been stopped there, and the second site where people died would not have ev n happened.


If civilians had been killed in the crossfire you really don't think anyone would have cared? I do. The only thing that might have helped would have been quicker communication and locking things down at the second site and possibly having armed MPs waiting. MPs are currently allowed to be armed. 

Oh and by the way someone here claimed it was Clinton who disarmed the military. That is false. (Not a surprise really, fact checking seems to be nonexistent for some around here). Actually it was George HW Bush in February of 1992: 

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a272176.pdf


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

7thswan said:


> Here it says clinton:Bill Clinton instituted the ban on armed military personnel. Islamic groups and jihadists are targeting our military people, give them back their weapons. - See more at: http://pamelageller.com/2015/07/4-m...is-tweeted-warning.html/#sthash.sk0zdmgi.dpuf
> I also keep hearing it all over, but I sure did not look it up.



Oh for goodness sakes. Maybe using real sources would help? Pamela Geller and the Daily Mail..... :facepalm:


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

People would care about any deaths or injuries. But, I do not believe people would have blamed harshly the people responding, even if friendly fire hit a bystander.

People would likely be reliev d that at least someone to ied to stop the shooter.

BTW, I also completely agree that just being armed is a real deterrent. We have creat d a target rich environment where even attacking military troops stateside is like shooting fish in a barrel.

I don't belief that is right or rational.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

gibbsgirl said:


> People would care about any deaths or injuries. But, I do not believe people would have blamed harshly the people responding, even if friendly fire hit a bystander.
> 
> People would likely be reliev d that at least someone to ied to stop the shooter.


That's one of those things that depends on perspective. A local woman and her child were killed when police and military in another country stormed a hijacked plane and those that were saved, felt they were freed and they judged kindly. 

Those that lost family members judged pretty harshly and those that freed the hostages judged themselves and each other very harshly. 

I personally feel that those on military bases should be armed because it seems to me that it's part of their job to protect American soil.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Everyone being armed on base is just not feasible. Nor is arming all of the recruiters. It's not going to happen for very good reasons. I would like to see all security duties go back to active duty military and get rid of the civilian rent-a-cops. I think we will see even more beefing up at bases too. But the example I posted at the base here in AR went exactly like it should go: an armed intruder attempted to ram the base gates and was shot by the base guards. 

I understand that we all want to fix things and keep bad things from happening but a lone gunman doing a drive-by shooting will always win. Arming every military person in those offices would not have stopped that. Posting an armed guard in front of the door would have been a better idea.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> Oh for goodness sakes. Maybe using real sources would help? Pamela Geller and the Daily Mail..... :facepalm:


I posted it because it was right in the begginging of the thread.Besides what's a "real" sourse with the lieing media today? I guess noone read it I've also heard Ollie North say the same on TV today.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Patchouli said:


> Oh for goodness sakes. Maybe using real sources would help? Pamela Geller and the Daily Mail..... :facepalm:


I didn't notice where you posted your source. What site pointed you to the DTIC site?



> Some (including Fox News) are attempting to blame President Bill Clinton for instituting a ban on military personal being armed while on duty. This is factually incorrect. Others are attempting to place the blame on George H.W. Bush&#8217;s administration, pointing to Department of Defense Directive 5210.56 (PDF), which was signed early in the last year of his presidency. Even that is incorrect, as the *1992 directive was simply an update to the original 5210.56 issued in 1969 under the Nixon administration*. We have been unable to determine how long similar policies have been in effect, but bans on military personnel carrying weapons on base while on duty are at least 45 years old. BA


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Patchouli said:


> I understand that we all want to fix things and keep bad things from happening but a lone gunman doing a drive-by shooting will always win. Arming every military person in those offices would not have stopped that. Posting an armed guard in front of the door would have been a better idea.


You have no way of knowing that. When Pamela Geller had the 1st Amendment conference in Dallas, she paid for extra security plus there was local security and it worked. Two dead terrorists.

An armed guard in front of the door would have been a target, not a deterrent. What defense would he have had against someone driving up in a convertible and shooting at him?


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> Oh and by the way someone here claimed it was Clinton who disarmed the military. That is false. (Not a surprise really, fact checking seems to be nonexistent for some around here). Actually it was George HW Bush in February of 1992:
> http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a272176.pdf


 You're right about the directive during Bush administration, but it wasn't initiated till 93 when Clinton took office.
I'm glad you brought this up tho. An excerpt from your file.
D. POLICY
It is DoD Policy:
1. To limit and control the carrying of firearms by DoD
military and civilian personnel.* The authorization to carry
firearms shall be issued only to qualified personnel when there
is a reasonable expectation that life or DoD assets will be
jeopardized if firearms are not carried.* *Evaluation of the
necessity to carry a firearm shall be made considering this
expectation weighed apainst the possible consequences of
accidental or indiscriminate use of firearms*. DoD personnel
regularly engaged in law enforcement or security duties shall be
armed. Procedures on authorization to carry and the carrying of
firearms are in enclosure 1.

The bold part tells me, Obama, or whomever he listens to from the FBI should have been able to use this clause to re institute the carrying of weapons months ago.
Back in the Bush/Clinton years, we didn't have known terrorists threatening our military operations here on American soil. Now we do.
G.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

My Dh's DD has civialians protecting Military offices in GA. (armed) Paluding Co.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

An unarmed military sounds pretty useless to me Penny wise and puund foolish.:hammer:


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

What is wrong with using the UK Daily Mail as a source?

*Revealed: Chattanooga Marine killer made mystery seven-month pilgrimage to Jordan and his father was investigated for funding terrorism* 

Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez was born in Kuwait with Jordanian citizenship but became a U.S. citizen in 1996
He was a popular teen, described as an 'All-American kid' and started for the Red Bank High School wrestling team 
He then went to the University of Tennessee to study electrical engineering and became a Mixed Martial Arts fighter
But he made several mystery trips to the Middle East, including Yemen and a seven-month tour of Jordan last year
Kuwait's official news agency also said the terrorist traveled to Kuwait and Jordan in Spring 2010 
Posted rambling messages about Islam and life being a 'test' in the days before the shooting 
His father was investigated by the Joint Terrorism Task Force in the 1990s for suspicious overseas donations
Dailymail.com has exclusively obtained documents revealing his parents were caught in a messy divorce in 2009 with Abdulazeez's mother alleging her husband beat her and sexually assaulted her in front of the children 
*The head of the House Homeland Security Committee said he believes it was an 'ISIS-inspired attack'*


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...stigated-funding-terrorism.html#ixzz3gBvNc7DX 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

> What is wrong with using the UK Daily Mail as a source?


Ask any Brit


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

gapeach said:


> What is wrong with using the UK Daily Mail as a source?
> 
> *Revealed: Chattanooga Marine killer made mystery seven-month pilgrimage to Jordan and his father was investigated for funding terrorism*
> 
> ...


He's a muslim and got way deep into his "religion". People do that.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Tiempo said:


> Ask any Brit


OK, I am asking an ex-Brit.:gaptooth:


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

7thswan said:


> He's a muslim and got way deep into his "religion". People do that.


Swan, they usually get radicalized in the Mosques and online. Those Mosques need to be monitored now!


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

edcopp said:


> An unarmed military sounds pretty useless to me Penny wise and puund foolish.:hammer:


The military doesn't have enough pistols for everyone. Caring a M4 would not be practical. The Governor of Arkansas has issued an order to the Arkansas Guard to arm anyone that the Adjutant General sees the need for.


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

gapeach said:


> Swan, they usually get radicalized in the Mosques and online. Those Mosques need to be monitored now!


 I just listened to a guy, an ex FBI in intelligence I believe.
He stated exactly that. He stated, pc be damned, we need to profile these guy's and see whats going on inside these mosques.
Somehow, I don't see obama going along with that one.
If it was Donald Trump, He'd ask, why aren't we in there already?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Marshloft said:


> I just listened to a guy, an ex FBI in intelligence I believe.
> He stated exactly that. He stated, pc be damned, we need to profile these guy's and see whats going on inside these mosques.
> Somehow, I don't see obama going along with that one.
> If it was Donald Trump, He'd ask, why aren't we in there already?


IIRC mosques are off limits. Started in NY after 911.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

gapeach said:


> Swan, they usually get radicalized in the Mosques and online. Those Mosques need to be monitored now!


He self radicalized by reading the books of islam. He became a pure islam follower. I'm not sure how the mosques come in ,other than they say the same stuff,he just took it to heart ,the teachings.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Considering the technology that is readily available today, I can't see how listening in or even watching the goings on anywhere, mosque, church, country club, shopping mall, anywhere, wouldn't be super easy to make happen. We have drones the size of an insect. Cell phones are everywhere, and Google and Facebook seem to know how to use that voice recognition software very well, I can't imagine Big Brother can't figure it out, too.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gibbsgirl said:


> Huh? So you're breaking your own 48 hour rule?


Where did I say I *believed *anything?

I pointed out the fact that the Twitter time stamps show it was posted after the attacks

You need to focus less energy on always attacking me, and more on reading just what I really say:



> It's now been determined that was actually posted after the attacks, which is why I suggest waiting 48 hours before believing *initial* reports:


The *initial *report was wrong


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Actually, I don't focus any particular energy on anyone here. I simply found it ironic that you chose to disparage the posts of so many others sharing information because you had declared a 48 hour rule....and them you joined on posting info within 48 hours.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> Navy* updated* that this was a male, not female.


Imagine that...........another *INITIAL* report is proven false.

Remember that 48 hour rule with breaking news stories


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gibbsgirl said:


> Actually, I don't focus any particular energy on anyone here. I simply found it ironic that you chose to disparage the posts of so many others sharing information because you had declared a 48 hour rule....and them you joined on posting info within 48 hours.


LOL
There you are doing it again.

You're making claims about *your perceptions *and not about what I really said

See the post directly above this one

(*INITIAL*)


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

That's the thing about communication. Perception is everything.

When someone doesn't like how their words are perceived by others, they can change how they communicate their message, but they can't do anything about forcing another to change what they hear.

If it was the listeners responsibility to correctly decifer a speakers message, then we wouldn't have public relations, or marketing and several other industries constantly trying to improve their message. They understand they have to repackage and represent their message until they get the reception or response they want. It has nothing to do with their listeners listening wrong.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Originally Posted by gapeach View Post
> What is wrong with using the UK Daily Mail as a source?
> 
> Revealed: Chattanooga Marine killer made mystery seven-month pilgrimage to Jordan and his *father was investigated *for funding terrorism


There was no evidence found of any links to terrorists


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> When someone doesn't like how their words are perceived by others, they can change how they communicate their message, but they can't do anything about forcing another to change what they hear.


It's not my fault you can't understand simple statements


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

:hysterical:


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

wow, just wow


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's not my fault you can't understand simple statements


However, it is your fault that you make vainglorious ones.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

MoonRiver said:


> I didn't notice where you posted your source. What site pointed you to the DTIC site?


Source? I posted a link to the directive. What are you looking for?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

MoonRiver said:


> You have no way of knowing that. When Pamela Geller had the 1st Amendment conference in Dallas, she paid for extra security plus there was local security and it worked. Two dead terrorists.
> 
> An armed guard in front of the door would have been a target, not a deterrent. What defense would he have had against someone driving up in a convertible and shooting at him?


Is that what she called it? I thought it was the draw childish pictures of Mohamed contest. She appears to have the mental age of Jr. High student. 

If you really don't think an armed guard in front of the door would have noticed a guy in a mustang with a big old gun sticking out of the top as he pulled up I don't see how you figure armed people inside the office could have done anything.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gapeach said:


> What is wrong with using the UK Daily Mail as a source?
> 
> *Revealed: Chattanooga Marine killer made mystery seven-month pilgrimage to Jordan and his father was investigated for funding terrorism*
> 
> ...


It's the equivalent of the National Enquirer they just occasionally try to look like a real news source at the DM in between all the bikini pics and Kardashian articles.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

edcopp said:


> An unarmed military sounds pretty useless to me Penny wise and puund foolish.:hammer:


 Our military installations are the closet social element we have to socialism in our nation. All arms on post ,including privately owned weapons by those living in on post housing must be stored in post armories. The only exception being the weapons used by the military police and military sentries when pulling duty on post.

A veteran I know was mugged on a post during his last hitch and he said his muggers dang near beat him to death because not only were his weapons in the armory, thanks to the area policing and landscaping around the barracks and buildings done on post daily he couldn't find a deadfall stick or rock bigger than a pea gravel to fend off the tire tools the muggers had.

I have heard that in response to the recruiting center shootings in TN, the military is considering assigning armed MPs to the centers for security.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

partndn said:


> However, it is your fault that you make vainglorious ones.


Another biased opinion :shrug:


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Well, I am not ever,ever going to quote Media Matters or Daily Kos or any of those liberal rags so if you don't want to read my posts from the sources that I quote, then just buzz on by them.

I will continue to post things from sources that you might not like unless I am asked not to by a Moderator.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

The Navy Man who was shot in Chattanooga has died during the night. This makes 5 of our Armed Forces who were killed in this attack on our Military.

He has a wife and 3 little children, He is from Ohio, He died from injuries to his liver and colon, His wife was asked to call a pastor about 1am and he died within an hour.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Don't know if this is an "approved" news sourse:http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/loca...oting-suspect-possible-ne-ohio-ties/30276537/



FirstEnergy confirmed to WKYC's Investigator Tom Meyer that he also worked at Perry Nuclear Power Plant from May 20 to May 30 of 2013.

FirstEnergy said he left because he didn't meet the minimum requirements to remain employed. He worked as a electrical engineer right outside the nuclear reactor, which they say he did not have access.

Yikes.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

In keeping with the highest standards of Presidential decorum and deference to this senseless tragedy in Chattanooga, our President has decided toâ¦do a Broadway matinee in NYC and hit up a Dem fundraiser.
Seems to be a new traditionâ¦did the same sort of thing after His personal representative in Libya was slaughtered by the jihadi mobs in Benghazi.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

This is why it's not really a good idea to arm these guys, most military are only rudimentarily trained in weapons use and safety.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/army-recruiter-accidentally-shoots-self-leg-gaines/nm2Tp/


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

The hatred has deranged a segment of the population... Obama is the anti-christ, Obama is satan, Obama is a just evil. 

Uh, he's a man. He's a politician. I suggest you (collective you) don't let the administration make you victims any more than you've already let it. Don't let the hatred warp you any further.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

coolrunnin said:


> This is why it's not really a good idea to arm these guys, most military are only rudimentarily trained in weapons use and safety.
> 
> http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/army-recruiter-accidentally-shoots-self-leg-gaines/nm2Tp/


Yeah, for sure no one has been combat trained or tested in like, forever. :yuck:


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I agree with part of your statement. Just the first part....


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> The hatred has deranged a segment of the population... Obama is the anti-christ, Obama is satan, Obama is a just evil.
> 
> Uh, he's a man. He's a politician. I suggest you (collective you) don't let the administration make you victims any more than you've already let it. Don't let the hatred warp you any further.


I agree with part of your statement. Just the first part....


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

coolrunnin said:


> This is why it's not really a good idea to arm these guys, most military are only rudimentarily trained in weapons use and safety.
> 
> http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/army-recruiter-accidentally-shoots-self-leg-gaines/nm2Tp/


I wonder if he brought his gun because he was frightened about the attack in Chattanooga?


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

no really said:


> Yeah, for sure no one has been combat trained or tested in like, forever. :yuck:


Your right the bulk of the military have not been combat tested or trained.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

coolrunnin said:


> Your right the bulk of the military have not been combat tested or trained.


:facepalm: combat training is a given when there is an ongoing conflict. 

But heck I guess it's no problem having unarmed military gunned down in our streets.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

The cartoonist at the Savannah News is a local guy who is very good. I loved this one today. It is not a cartoon but very appropriate.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

no really said:


> :facepalm: combat training is a given when there is an ongoing conflict.
> 
> But heck I guess it's no problem having unarmed military gunned down in our streets.


You have obviously never been in the military, along with if you arm the recruiters you don't think that might slow recruitment a little?

Combat training goes to combat troops the bulk of the military are support.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

coolrunnin said:


> You have obviously never been in the military, along with if you arm the recruiters you don't think that might slow recruitment a little?
> 
> Combat training goes to combat troops the bulk of the military are support.


Obviously you are wrong 10+ years in, four deployments in areas of conflict. 

Any idiot that goes to a recruiter and is fearful of weapons needs to look elsewhere IMHO.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

By all means then lets issue a basic load, and let the chips fall where they may, ought to be interesting.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

7thswan said:


> It was Bill Clinton that took away their right to carry.


 Gotta call BS again swan, that rule was around long before Clinton.


Nevermind, I see the subject has already been addressed many pages back. Thats what i get for commenting on a thread after only having read the first and last page...


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

I don't know what the heck you guys are talking about right now. The bulk of the military isn't combat tested or trained? Okay, I think that's probably true considering how many people are involved in logistics and maintenance...on the other hand the army is by far the largest branch. On yet another hand, the gun was this guy's personal weapon. 

But no we aren't going to give these guys their military issued weapons to walk around the fridgin' streets with just in case another lone wolf gunman comes around. Come on... HOW can anyone who is paranoid about martial law and government interference WANT military personnel walking around with their government issued equipment? Every psychological experiment I have ever heard of has pretty much proven that something like that could radically change their psychology and our psychology over night. That just is not a good idea.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

How? Because many people who want the military sufficiently armed want the citizenship well armed moving freely about as well.

We could use a little psychology change in our society. Time to empower the good guys with confidemc and contentment and disempower the bad guys who are overly confident because they get that when seconds count, help is minutes away.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

gibbsgirl said:


> How? Because many people who want the military sufficiently armed want the citizenship well armed moving freely about as well.
> 
> We could use a little psychology change in our society. Time to empower the good guys with confidemc and contentment and disempower the bad guys who are overly confident because they get that when seconds count, help is minutes away.


All the JADE HELM hoopla comes to mind first.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

gibbsgirl said:


> How? Because many people who want the military sufficiently armed want the citizenship well armed moving freely about as well.
> 
> We could use a little psychology change in our society. Time to empower the good guys with confidemc and contentment and disempower the bad guys who are overly confident because they get that when seconds count, help is minutes away.


Yea... Well the terror is working on you, eh?


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

Just curious as to what your thoughts are about the Muslim community condemning the attacks at both locations in Chattanooga. They held prayer vigils for the slain Marines in Chattanooga and some went to an interfaith memorial for the Marines last night in Chattanooga. Are all Muslims evil in some folks eyes and can't be trusted even when they speak out against this?


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

I'm glad that they understand that religious belief is no justification for violence, and that violence will not help us solve the political-social-financial issues our world faces right now. That's all I really have to say about it, because to be really honest, I don't really know how much of the Muslim community was represented there. It seems to me that there is more than one Muslim community in the United States.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

wiscto said:


> Yea... Well the terror is working on you, eh?


I don't even get what you're asking.

My comment was about how I feel generally, about everyday life. Have felt that way for many years. Shared it today, cause it seemed relevant when you posed your question. So, I said it.

BTW, when I say for years, I'm not talking about just since 9/11. I mean decades, multiple generations of my family too.

The military not being armed sufficiently to operate as safely as possible during the course of their duties at home and abroad is nothing new.

My dad had some interesting stories about it from his time in the army. The tet offensive was particularly eye opening for him on that front.

People should always carry and understand that if they don't, it's not someone else's job to save you.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Ok, for those who say our military shouldnt be allowed to carry because they are not well trained and proficient in the use of firearms, I have only this to say..... if not why not?!? By the time a young lad is old enough to join the service he should have already been trained and very proficient in their use! Mothers should have long since taught them all about guns, when to use them and how, along with other common sense things like wiping their backsides, being kind to puppies, and holding doors open for the ladies. 

Sheesh! what has happened to our once great country?!?!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

gibbsgirl said:


> I don't even get what you're asking.
> 
> My comment was about how I feel generally, about everyday life. Have felt that way for many years. Shared it today, cause it seemed relevant when you posed your question. So, I said it.
> 
> ...


I like these last two lines especially well. My brother was involved in that tet offensive too.... yikes! They had to sit and wait for the buggers to open fire before they could defend themselves.... and the little buggers knew it! obviously they didnt fire a shot until they had positioned themselves inside the camp! 

Both of my brothers and I were taught about firearms at an early age, I was seven when I finally got my very own 22 rifle.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Ok, for those who say our military shouldnt be allowed to carry because they are not well trained and proficient in the use of firearms, I have only this to say..... if not why not?!? By the time a young lad is old enough to join the service he should have already been trained and very proficient in their use! Mothers should have long since taught them all about guns, when to use them and how, along with other common sense things like wiping their backsides, being kind to puppies, and holding doors open for the ladies.
> 
> Sheesh! what has happened to our once great country?!?!


What has happened to our country? We have been disarmed both mentally and physically.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

no really said:


> What has happened to our country? We have been disarmed both mentally and physically.


such a shame


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

no really said:


> *What has happened to our country? *We have been disarmed both mentally and physically.


 That's a rhetorical question, right?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gapeach said:


> Well, I am not ever,ever going to quote Media Matters or Daily Kos or any of those liberal rags so if you don't want to read my posts from the sources that I quote, then just buzz on by them.
> 
> I will continue to post things from sources that you might not like unless I am asked not to by a Moderator.


I don't post from any of those either.  I always try to find a non-biased source that is as factual as possible if I want to support a position of mine. Just like you would laugh if I posted a Daily Kos link and rightfully so, I will laugh if I see a Daily Mail. Or even worse Alex Jones' site.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Different branches of the military get more or less weapons training based on how much they will need it in their career fields but everyone is given a basic course in how to handle a gun at the very least. I wouldn't be concerned with them not handling them well so much as just the sheer logistical issues of everyone on and off base carrying a gun. Military bases have people doing every possible job. I think it is far better to leave the gun carrying to the MPs. If you need to increase your guard then pull in a few people from another MOS.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Patchouli said:


> Different branches of the military get more or less weapons training based on how much they will need it in their career fields but everyone is given a basic course in how to handle a gun at the very least. I wouldn't be concerned with them not handling them well so much as just the sheer logistical issues of everyone on and off base carrying a gun. Military bases have people doing every possible job. I think it is far better to leave the gun carrying to the MPs. If you need to increase your guard then pull in a few people from another MOS.


I have a somewhat different view, I firmly believe that everyone needs to know how to handle weapon proficiently no matter their job description. And yes this includes civilians. Self defense requires it, and the mp's are seldom on the scene when some bozo goes off.... Just like the civillian cops are seldom on the scene at the time they are most needed.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Well, if they can't keep it together when everyone on base has a weapon back in the states, how is it they do ok when they deploy?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> I don't post from any of those either.  I always try to find a non-biased source that is as factual as possible if I want to support a position of mine. Just like you would laugh if I posted a Daily Kos link and rightfully so, I will laugh if I see a Daily Mail. Or even worse Alex Jones' site.


what's a non biased source I can look at?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Fox News?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Cornhusker said:


> what's a non biased source I can look at?




Let me know when you find one.
As long as there are human beings involved and money, I think there will be bias.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

"gun-free zones" at military facilities are now called for and being pushed by some on the campaign trail. YEAH


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

arabian knight said:


> "gun-free zones" at military facilities are now called for and being pushed by some on the campaign trail. YEAH


You probably should proof read your posts, because I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant to say


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I have a somewhat different view, I firmly believe that everyone needs to know how to handle weapon proficiently no matter their job description. And yes this includes civilians. Self defense requires it, and the mp's are seldom on the scene when some bozo goes off.... Just like the civillian cops are seldom on the scene at the time they are most needed.


It's not a matter of not being able to handle one proficiently it's a matter of do you really want your fry cook standing there with an M16? Your Doctor? Your paper pushers? Nobody wants to walk around 24/7 with a gun strapped to them unless they are in a war zone.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> what's a non biased source I can look at?


A less heavily biased. How's that? I swear you people could nitpick anything to death.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> It's not a matter of not being able to handle one proficiently it's a matter of do you really want your fry cook standing there with an M16? Your Doctor? Your paper pushers? Nobody wants to walk around 24/7 with a gun strapped to them unless they are in a war zone.


Hey I carry one all day every day unless I'm in the shower or at the court house. No war zone needed.........


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Patchouli said:


> It's not a matter of not being able to handle one proficiently it's a matter of do you really want your fry cook standing there with an M16? Your Doctor? Your paper pushers? *Nobody wants to walk around 24/7 with a gun strapped to them unless they are in a war zone.*


You may find that quite a few feel the need to carry on a daily basis right here in the good ol USA. I recall a grocery store owner in Richmond Va. who packed a 45 on his hip as he made me a sandwich.... I had no problem at all with the fact this man carried... he was the one feeding me that day. He also gave me cab fair to get me out of that side of town, something about I was the wrong color to be there when the sun went down. 

Years later when I worked the real estate game several of my co workers also carried on a daily basis. I was glad they did. one never knows who they are dealing with when dealing with the public at large. 
You might be surprised by the number of people you meet that are packing concealed and you never realize it.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

I don't think anyone wishes that people have a need to carry, military or civilian. I think it is necessary and the most prudent decision at this point, particularly with the events happening to our stateside military.

Actions should be appropriate to the situation. At this point, I don't agree with the gun free zones policies. They have been enacted for political reasons.

And, people in schools, federal property, even theaters have paid with their lives because gun free zones are regularly targeted and shooter's will continue to play those odds until we change the odds by eliminating the gun free zones.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

gibbsgirl said:


> I don't think anyone wishes that people have a need to carry, military or civilian. I think it is necessary and the most prudent decision at this point, particularly with the events happening to our stateside military.
> 
> Actions should be appropriate to the situation. At this point, I don't agree with the gun free zones policies. They have been enacted for political reasons.
> 
> And, people in schools, federal property, even theaters have paid with their lives because gun free zones are regularly targeted and shooter's will continue to play those odds until we change the odds by eliminating the gun free zones.


Prezacalutely!


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I have no idea if this is correct at this time ,but something to consider.http://shoebat.com/2015/07/17/the-t...orist-who-visited-an-isis-infested-community/


As Shoebat.com stated yesterday prior to media speculation, that the Tennessee shooter was Palestinian, now the government of Jordan confirms it as reported by CNN Arabic. Also, his real name is not Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez. The shooter&#8217;s real name is Mohammad Youssuf Saeed Al-Hajjaj born September 5th, 1990 and gained a temporary Jordanian passport. His father had changed his last name to Abdulazeez for unknown reasons in which his son then carried that last name as well. It is common for many Palestinians who are doing nefarious activities to change names.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

7thswan said:


> I have no idea if this is correct at this time ,but something to consider.http://shoebat.com/2015/07/17/the-t...orist-who-visited-an-isis-infested-community/
> 
> 
> As Shoebat.com stated yesterday prior to media speculation, that the Tennessee shooter was Palestinian, now the government of Jordan confirms it as reported by CNN Arabic. Also, his real name is not Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez. The shooterâs real name is Mohammad Youssuf Saeed Al-Hajjaj born September 5th, 1990 and gained a temporary Jordanian passport. His father had changed his last name to Abdulazeez for unknown reasons in which his son then carried that last name as well. It is common for many Palestinians who are doing nefarious activities to change names.



I was just reading this from an Israeli newspaper. His mother was from Kuwait but his father is definitely Palestinian. The CNN paper is all in Arabic but does say in English that the boy considered himself as a Palestinian.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

The article links to a cnn article. Here is a link to the translation of that cnn article.

https://translate.google.com/transl...s-us-gunman-not-jordanian-citizen-palestinian


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> You may find that quite a few feel the need to carry on a daily basis right here in the good ol USA. I recall a grocery store owner in Richmond Va. who packed a 45 on his hip as he made me a sandwich.... I had no problem at all with the fact this man carried... he was the one feeding me that day. He also gave me cab fair to get me out of that side of town, something about I was the wrong color to be there when the sun went down.
> 
> Years later when I worked the real estate game several of my co workers also carried on a daily basis. I was glad they did. one never knows who they are dealing with when dealing with the public at large.
> You might be surprised by the number of people you meet that are packing concealed and you never realize it.


I presume you are walking around with a hand gun? The military does not have hand guns for everyone. Hence the logistical issues I pointed out.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Patchouli said:


> I presume you are walking around with a hand gun? The military does not have hand guns for everyone. Hence the logistical issues I pointed out.


I think it's a question every office should ask. If someone with a gun came into our office and began to shoot people, do we have any defense or do we just accept being shot?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Oh, I'm pretty sure that's a logistical problem that can be easily solved.:happy2:

Actually I think that would come under "procurement".


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Patchouli said:


> I presume you are walking around with a hand gun? The military does not have hand guns for everyone. Hence the logistical issues I pointed out.


nope, I seldom walk around carrying a handgun.... but then I dont do much walking these days either. There is usually one within arms reach if I am at home, and one in my car when I go out, or in the saddlebag of the motorcycle if I am out riding. (Its in the bag opposite of the one with the beer.)


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

MoonRiver said:


> I think it's a question every office should ask. If someone with a gun came into our office and began to shoot people, do we have any defense or do we just accept being shot?


Exactly. In my case our broker strongly encouraged everyone to carry.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*US investigators probe shooter's alleged 'war' text message*
Yahoo News
Sunday by Olivia Hamilton

-video-

Washington (AFP) - Investigators on Sunday were probing the communications of a shooter who killed five US troops in Chattanooga to determine his possible motive, following reports he allegedly sent a text message declaring "war" hours before the rampage.
Four Marines and a sailor were killed in Thursday's attack on two military centers in Tennessee -- which authorities are treating as "an act of terrorism" -- before the gunman, Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez, died in a shootout with police.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has asked foreign intelligence agencies to help trace Abdulazeez's movements and activities abroad, and analysts are monitoring his activity on social media.
*A law enforcement official told the New York Times on Saturday that investigators were looking into a text message Abdulazeez allegedly sent to a friend before the shooting to probe possible motives.
The text reportedly included an Islamic verse: "Whosoever shows enmity to a friend of Mine, then I have declared war against him," according to the newspaper.
The Times said a friend of Abdulazeez had been interviewed by the FBI and that investigators were trying to verify the text.*
read more...........
http://news.yahoo.com/us-shooter-suffered-depression-family-033017841.html?soc_src=copy




I won't watch the video. Sick of looking at his murdering face!

So...declaring war isn't reason enough to explain his actions? The guy is one of many muslims staged in our society to perform these horrible deeds. Where is our leadership? Oh, yeah....on vacay AGAIN AND WITHOUT ONE WORD TO THE PUBLIC ON THIS. Only black thugs matter to him.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*Last words from slain Marine to girlfriend: 'ACTIVE SHOOTER*










Associated Press | Jul 18, 2015 | by Matt Sedensky and Russ Bynum
They were four people charged with the safety of others, gunned down in a place where the nation's defense is the paramount mission for those who pass through its doors. They are being deemed heroes by some, and the cruel irony of protectors becoming targets was not lost, with President Barack Obama calling it "a heartbreaking circumstance" to lose four men who served "with great valor."
Here is a look at the Marines killed in the attack on two military facilities in Chattanooga, Tennessee:
SKIP WELLS
Lance Cpl. Squire Wells, who was known as Skip, was swapping text messages Thursday with his girlfriend of 2 Â½ years, excited that she had booked a flight to visit him in Chattanooga after months apart.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/07/18/last-words-from-slain-marine-to-girlfriend-active-shooter.html?comp=7000023435700&rank=1
The two met at Georgia Southern University, but he soon followed in his family footsteps and enlisted. His grandfather had been in the Air Force, and his grandmother and mother served in the Navy, Dove said. Dove, too, plans to enlist in the Marines, a process she began in November. She said she is not dissuaded by what happened.
Caroline Dove holds a photo of Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Skip Wells, her boyfriend, in her hands July â¦
Through tears, Dove remembered her boyfriend's love of flag football and Nerf guns, his passion for U.S. history, his ability to handle her when she was grouchy and how good he was at listening. He dreamed of being a drill sergeant, and when they last saw each other around Valentine's Day, he gave her a gold-and-silver ring. When the time came to propose, she said, he knew to ask her parents first.
Wells' mother was watching television coverage of the shooting when Marines appeared at her door. She knew what the visit meant.
"Every service parent, especially moms, dreads opening the front door and seeing people in uniform," said Andy Kingery, a friend who is acting as a family spokesman.

My heart goes out to all of these friends and familiy members tonight. All of their slain children and their friends died in vain I believe unless something happens to the influx of radicals who would murder them in cold blood.
​​


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

poppy said:


> And since Obama is Commander in Chief, he could write an executive order today authorizing military folks to be armed while in uniform. But he won't, even though this isn't the first terror attack on our military in this country.


BWHaha! Yeah, that'll happen.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> Because a fire fight in a crowded shopping center with civilians in the crossfire would have been so much better.....


Do you know this wasn't a crowded shopping center don't you?
A strip mall, kinda different. The piece of crap coward drove up to the door.
If they'd been armed & shot back it's possible the killings on base could've been stopped.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> I presume you are walking around with a hand gun? The military does not have hand guns for everyone. Hence the logistical issues I pointed out.


Some commands are now allowing recruiters to carry their own personal weapons, so logistics isn't a big problem


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

What is disgusting is that ABC News is trying to spin this guy into the boy next door instead of the terrorist he truly is. Wake up America, we have had enough! Rather odd how a mentally ill Dylann Roof was immediately portrayed as a domestic terrorist, while the Obama regime twists itself into pretzels trying NOT to call any Muslim a terrorist.


Chattanooga Shooting: FBI Recovers Gunman's Disturbing Diary
Jul 20, 2015, 
By BRIAN ROSS, DOUG LANTZ and JAMES GORDON MEEK
BRIAN ROSS More From Brian Â»
ABC News Chief Investigative Correspondent
JAMES GORDON MEEK More From James Â»
Investigative Producer via GOOD MORNING AMERICA
http://abcnews.go.com/US/chattanoog...rs-gunmans-disturbing-diary/story?id=32558310


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

gapeach said:


> What is disgusting is that ABC News is trying to spin this guy into the boy next door instead of the terrorist he truly is. Wake up America, we have had enough! Rather odd how a mentally ill Dylann Roof was immediately portrayed as a domestic terrorist, while the Obama regime twists itself into pretzels trying NOT to call any Muslim a terrorist.
> 
> 
> Chattanooga Shooting: FBI Recovers Gunman's Disturbing Diary
> ...


It's what they do to stay on Obama's good side. In typical liberal fashion, they blur the lines into shades of gray to confuse the dumbmasses. It's all to absolve the religion of peace from any culpability even though it's a regular contributor to death on a daily basis.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

poppy said:


> It's what they do to stay on Obama's good side. In typical liberal fashion, they blur the lines into shades of gray to confuse the dumbmasses. It's all to absolve the religion of peace from any culpability even though it's a regular contributor to death on a daily basis.


Even to the picture of him as a sweet little boy.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Yes. It's all a vast conspiracy to cover up the maniacal doings of a lame duck president. He has them all brain washed into doing his bidding. I heard that it was something he had added to the coffee, but that's just a rumor. It could have been the water. They're also all on his payroll, or he has "something" on each and every one of the employees at ABC News.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

no really said:


> Obviously you are wrong 10+ years in, four deployments in areas of conflict.
> 
> Any idiot that goes to a recruiter and is fearful of weapons needs to look elsewhere IMHO.


Post of the day award.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

edcopp said:


> An unarmed military sounds pretty useless to me Penny wise and puund foolish.:hammer:


Post of the day award.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Tricky Grama said:


> Do you know this wasn't a crowded shopping center don't you?
> A strip mall, kinda different. The piece of crap coward drove up to the door.
> If they'd been armed & shot back it's possible the killings on base could've been stopped.


I liked your point. Although to be honest, even in a situation like the Denver shooting spree which was crowded, I don't think many people would have faulted someone who returned fire, even it they killed or injured others.

Obviously that would have been tragic, but still they lesser of two evils, since returning fire is a response to a terrible situation.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I have a somewhat different view, I firmly believe that everyone needs to know how to handle weapon proficiently no matter their job description. And yes this includes civilians. Self defense requires it, and the mp's are seldom on the scene when some bozo goes off.... Just like the civillian cops are seldom on the scene at the time they are most needed.


Post of the day award.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Some commands are now allowing recruiters to carry their own personal weapons, so logistics isn't a big problem


It's not if everyone has one of their own.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gibbsgirl said:


> I liked your point. Although to be honest, even in a situation like the Denver shooting spree which was crowded, I don't think many people would have faulted someone who returned fire, even it they killed or injured others.
> 
> Obviously that would have been tragic, but still they lesser of two evils, since returning fire is a response to a terrible situation.


Causing more people to die is never a good thing. I just do not understand the warped thinking involved there. Well it's okay because it was just returning fire. In order to prevent deaths we will kill a few extra people. Alrighty then. 

Also according to the articles when this happened there were people in the parking lot and people on the sidewalk nearby. So yes innocent bystanders could have been killed. If you are shooting willy nilly out of the inside of a building then you have no way of knowing where your bullets will land.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gapeach said:


> What is disgusting is that ABC News is trying to spin this guy into the boy next door instead of the terrorist he truly is. Wake up America, we have had enough! Rather odd how a mentally ill Dylann Roof was immediately portrayed as a domestic terrorist, while the Obama regime twists itself into pretzels trying NOT to call any Muslim a terrorist.
> 
> 
> Chattanooga Shooting: FBI Recovers Gunman's Disturbing Diary
> ...



Ooh or here's a shocker maybe he actually was NOT A TERRORIST! Some of us who don't leap to conclusions thought it was quite possible he wasn't since he never made any terrorist statements. Generally terrorists like to let people know what they are doing and why. Looks like this was just another messed up young man with the same background as all of our other recent shooters.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Patchouli said:


> Causing more people to die is never a good thing. I just do not understand the warped thinking involved there. Well it's okay because it was just returning fire. In order to prevent deaths we will kill a few extra people. Alrighty then.
> 
> Also according to the articles when this happened there were people in the parking lot and people on the sidewalk nearby. So yes innocent bystanders could have been killed. If you are shooting willy nilly out of the inside of a building then you have no way of knowing where your bullets will land.


Why assume they would be shooting "willy nilly"? I would give them more credit than that.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

MO_cows said:


> Why assume they would be shooting "willy nilly"? I would give them more credit than that.


Because they are inside a building shooting at a moving car. Do you know how many incidences of "friendly fire" we have in the military? These are professionals trained and using their guns every day. Same with police shooting bystanders.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Patchouli said:


> Ooh or here's a shocker maybe he actually was NOT A TERRORIST! Some of us who don't leap to conclusions thought it was quite possible he wasn't since he never made any terrorist statements. Generally terrorists like to let people know what they are doing and why. Looks like this was just another messed up young man with the same background as all of our other recent shooters.


The shocker is that you believe that.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> Causing more people to die is never a good thing. I just do not understand the warped thinking involved there. Well it's okay because it was just returning fire. In order to prevent deaths we will kill a few extra people. Alrighty then.
> 
> Also according to the articles when this happened there were people in the parking lot and people on the sidewalk nearby. So yes innocent bystanders could have been killed. If you are shooting willy nilly out of the inside of a building then you have no way of knowing where your bullets will land.


I don't wish to diminish the death of innocents by friendly fire. Notvat all. Ever.

But, if I follow the logic of don't shoot back because innocents could be shot, I don't like where that leads either. That shooter didn't surrender peacefully he died. .

I don't believe citizens, military, or law enforcement should be hindered by lack of access or excessive fear of violating rules of engagement when they face a shooter.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Close the blinds and don't wear your military uniform.



> *Pentagon Refuses to Arm Military Recruiters â Tells Them to âClose the Blindsâ *
> *Army chief of staff Gen. Ray Odierno* said on Friday he has no plans to arm recruiters or add security patrols to military recruitment centers in the wake of the Islamist terror attacks on unarmed, unguarded military offices in Chattanooga, Tennessee on Thursday. Odierno basically said he doesnât trust his troops to handle their weapons properly.
> *Also on Friday, the Marine Corps ordered recruiters to not wear their uniforms at work for âforce protection.â*
> Today the Pentagon added thisâ
> Military recruiters are being told to âclose the blindsâ for added safety.


GatewayPundit


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Two things that don't reconcile well for me are, 1) the number of people shot AND killed, and 2) the idea that it happened from a "moving vehicle".

One of the arguments for not returning fire seems to be that the vehicle in which the shooter was located was moving. How many rounds did this shooter fire in order to do it all while not slowing down enough to be shot back at? 

It's hard to think that if he was traveling so fast as to not be a viable target, it would have been awfully difficult to actually drive the car AND shoot with enough accuracy to off that many people. Now if he actually stopped the car long enough to shoot, he would have been a much better target. 

It just doesn't feel like all of the descriptions add up to the end results. Granted, I'm sure I haven't read all of the news stories.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Patchouli said:


> Because they are inside a building shooting at a moving car. Do you know how many incidences of "friendly fire" we have in the military? These are professionals trained and using their guns every day. Same with police shooting bystanders.


Police don't shoot bystanders very often. It was police officers that successfully shot the shooter, with no collateral damage, in the TN incident, no? Funny you even brought that up. That was one of the things that ran thru my mind reading the "willy nilly" comment, geez does she want to disarm the cops too. 

We don't know if the people inside the recruiting office would have shot back from inside their damaged glass with no real target in their sights or not. They never even got the chance. For all we know, somebody with good reflexes might have taken the guy out after his first volley of fire and saved several lives. 

I lean towards arming them. The top ranking officer has a sidearm, there is an MP on site, something. Recruiting stations could become too juicy of a target. One, you already know they aren't armed, and two, you also dissuade people from going there to join up. A two-fer for the "ISIS wannabe".


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*Angry protesters in Chattanooga: When&#8217;s the government going to do something?*



By Greg Jaffe and Thomas Gibbons-Neff July 19 at 10:19 PM 
CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. &#8212; Paula Proxmire was surrounded by screaming street preachers, angry protesters and unsettled mourners who had just arrived from Sunday church.
Her son, Petty Officer 2nd Class Randall Smith, 26, had died Saturday from wounds suffered in a shooting rampage here. The attacker was an aimless, depressed 24-year-old Muslim man whose online postings suggest he may have been motivated by radical Islamist movements.
Proxmire stood across from the bullet-riddled Armed Forces Recruiting Center, one of two military sites attacked by the gunman last week. She brushed back a strand of sweat-soaked hair and sobbed. Her son had been dead for barely one day. Around her people were screaming.
&#8220;I can&#8217;t believe these people even come here to this country!&#8221; one woman 

yelled. &#8220;Why do they come here?&#8221;
&#8220;Because they want to kill us,&#8221; a man answered.
A few miles away at the Armed Forces Recruiting Center, the other shooting site, the crowd was larger and angrier. &#8220;We need to be stronger,&#8221; said Tim Litt, a Gulf War veteran who came to the rally with a holstered Ruger pistol. &#8220;We need a stronger White House. We need to do more.&#8221;
There were boisterous chants of &#8220;U.S.A.,&#8221; roaring motorcycles and television anchors doing live stand-ups. Proxmire, who had traveled from Delphos, Kan., was still trying to make sense of what had happened to her son, who was in surgery when she arrived in Chattanooga. &#8220;He was my hero,&#8221; she said. &#8220;He was my world.&#8221;
Behind her, people were waving American flags and protest signs.
A stranger pulled Proxmire out of the scrum, guided her toward a quiet spot near the road and hugged her. &#8220;I&#8217;m so sorry for your loss,&#8221; Alaina Fitzner, an Air Force wife, whispered to her. &#8220;We&#8217;re all behind you. You&#8217;re part of our military family, and we love you.&#8221;
_Greg Miller and Adam Goldman in Washington contributed to this report._
_Read more....................long.............photos_
_http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...1004b0-2e45-11e5-8353-1215475949f4_story.html_
_*Does anybody think if the terrorists didn't have access to guns, most likely illegal guns anyway, they wouldn't find a way to kill us? 

9/11 their personal weapon was a box cutter. 

The subway bombing in England, they used homemade organic peroxide-based devices packed into backpacks. 
*_
_*Sometimes the terrorists have bombs. If guns were outlawed it would make no difference. *
_

*Please look at the picture at the beginning of this article. It is not able to be copied. If you heart does not hurt after looking at that photo, then something is wrong with your heart.*


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> Causing more people to die is never a good thing. I just do not understand the warped thinking involved there. Well it's okay because it was just returning fire. In order to prevent deaths we will kill a few extra people. Alrighty then.
> 
> Also according to the articles when this happened there were people in the parking lot and people on the sidewalk nearby. So yes innocent bystanders could have been killed. If you are shooting willy nilly out of the inside of a building then you have no way of knowing where your bullets will land.


So because someone else MIGHT get hurt you want to make sure other's are defenseless? 

What about the fact that knowing the people others want to kill are armed might just prevent an attack in the first place? If you check the history of mass murders you will discover few, if any, have happened in a place where the victims might have had the ability to defend themselves.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

MO_cows said:


> Police don't shoot bystanders very often. It was police officers that successfully shot the shooter, with no collateral damage, in the TN incident, no? Funny you even brought that up. That was one of the things that ran thru my mind reading the "willy nilly" comment, geez does she want to disarm the cops too.
> 
> We don't know if the people inside the recruiting office would have shot back from inside their damaged glass with no real target in their sights or not. They never even got the chance. For all we know, somebody with good reflexes might have taken the guy out after his first volley of fire and saved several lives.
> 
> I lean towards arming them. The top ranking officer has a sidearm, there is an MP on site, something. Recruiting stations could become too juicy of a target. One, you already know they aren't armed, and two, you also dissuade people from going there to join up. A two-fer for the "ISIS wannabe".


In the shooting incident here at the LR AFB 2 bystanders were shot along with the guy who tried to ram the gates. 

Police hitting bystanders is more common than you may be aware of, this was a pretty big story at the time and a lot more stories were reported on in it's wake:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/25/nypd-shooting-bystander-victims-hit-by-police-gunfire/



> NEW YORK â All nine people wounded during a dramatic confrontation between police and a gunman outside the Empire State Building were struck by bullets fired by the two officers, police said Saturday, citing ballistics evidence.
> The veteran patrolmen who opened fire on the suit-wearing gunman, Jeffrey Johnson, had only an instant to react when he whirled and pointed a .45-caliber pistol as they approached him from behind on a busy sidewalk.
> Officer Craig Matthews shot seven times. Officer Robert Sinishtaj fired nine times, police said. Neither had ever fired their weapons before on a patrol.
> The volley of gunfire felled Johnson in just a few seconds and left nine other people bleeding on the sidewalk.
> ...


I don't have an opinion on whether the police should be armed or not I was just pointing out the fact that even trained professionals do hit innocent bystanders.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> Because they are inside a building shooting at a moving car. Do you know how many incidences of "friendly fire" we have in the military? These are professionals trained and using their guns every day. Same with police shooting bystanders.


The car wasn't moving while he was shooting, and your view of "return fire" is pretty unrealistic, since even with all the rounds fired, no bystanders were injured

Most "friendly fire" incidents in the military involve mistaken identity and quite often heavy ordnance, not small arms fire.

It's pretty easy to tell who's the bad guy when someone is shooting at you, and even a mediocre shot with a rifle will keep all his rounds on target at the short distances that were involved


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Patchouli said:


> In the shooting incident here at the LR AFB 2 bystanders were shot along with the guy who tried to ram the gates.
> 
> Police hitting bystanders is more common than you may be aware of, this was a pretty big story at the time and a lot more stories were reported on in it's wake:
> 
> ...


I would like to see the Numbers on that.... I have a feeling that is pretty rare.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I would like to see the Numbers on that.... I have a feeling that is pretty rare.


I agree. 

If you have to go back 2-3 years to find an example of a *legal* "shootout" in which bystanders are injured, it can't be all that common.

If there had been someone armed at the recruiting office, the deaths of the 4 Marines at the second site might have been prevented.

I'd also be interested in the extent of the injuries in the examples given, since "wounded" is pretty vague and could just mean a minor scratch from a ricochet or debris

Edited to add, much as I thought, 6 of the 9 were minor injuries, and it appears they all survived:



> Police have determined that three people were struck by whole bullets -- two of which were removed from victims at the hospital -- and the rest were *grazed "by fragments of some sort*," Kelly said.
> 
> Three people remained hospitalized, all in stable condition, police said.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

How far back to you have to go to find a recruiting office shooting?:shrug: Time has nothing yo do with bystanders being shot.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Wanda said:


> How far back to you have to go to find a recruiting office shooting?:shrug: *Time has nothing yo do with bystanders being shot*.


It does if one wants to claim it's a high probability, since there don't seem to be any numbers to back that up.

Innocent bystanders being shot by those using firearms *legally* for self defense seems to be unusual compared to the number shot by random criminals or gang shootouts.

The location of the shootouts make little real difference


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

MoonRiver said:


> Close the blinds and don't wear your military uniform.
> 
> GatewayPundit


I was going to hit "like" on your post to indicate that I was glad that you posted this ... but it did not seem right to "like" the post. It is the most ridiculous order to our military. Like the blinds are going to stop bullets. Just totally crazy.


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

gapeach said:


> What is disgusting is that ABC News is trying to spin this guy into the boy next door instead of the terrorist he truly is. Wake up America, we have had enough! Rather odd how a mentally ill Dylann Roof was immediately portrayed as a domestic terrorist, while the Obama regime twists itself into pretzels trying NOT to call any Muslim a terrorist.




Your post reminded me of this opinion piece by Tod Starnes: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/07/20/todd-starnes-do-right-thing-mr-president-lower-flag.html

From the article:


> Aside from off-the-cuff remarks delivered last week on videotape &#8211;the White House has been noticeably silent about the terrible deed that was done.
> 
> This administration&#8217;s decision on who gets memorialized and who doesn&#8217;t is puzzling. The families of Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin and Eric Garner and Freddie Gray found favor with the White House. Others &#8211; like Kate Steinle -- have not.


The reaction (or lack thereof) to the attack in Chattanooga again highlights where the loyalties of our current administration are.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

FarmerKat said:


> Your post reminded me of this opinion piece by Tod Starnes: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/07/20/todd-starnes-do-right-thing-mr-president-lower-flag.html
> 
> From the article:
> 
> ...



It just makes me cry to see our Military and their families treated this way.
Would that be bulletproof blinds that the Pentagon is having installed? What happened to all of the good Generals? Did Obama fire them all?

Why did Mr. Obama do it for Ft hood, but not for this massacre?


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

It's a real pickle for the recruiters. They have to be in a visible and convenient location, they are "marketing" after all. It's probably pretty hard to recruit good recruiters as it is, not one of the "plum" assignments, I wouldn't think. Now they are going to the office every day wondering if they have a target on them. They should arm the ranking officer at each location at least. Posting MP security doesn't really make sense, posting an armed guard at the door would likely put off their "customers" and make it pretty hard to fulfill their mission. It makes more sense for potential attackers to know that somebody inside that office is armed and trained and capable of shooting back. A deterrent in case there are "copy cat" episodes. 

I don't mean to take lightly "friendly fire" or collateral damage in police work, but it isn't a big problem. Most military "friendly fire" casualties are not from small arms in the first place. And for all the "officer involved shootings" that happen, injuries to bystanders are uncommon. So we don't want to increase their rate, of course, but the safety of our military personnel would take priority for me, over something that "might happen", or "happened once years ago" type of considerations.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

There are some armed civilian volunteers standing outside some of the recruiting offices around here, and no one to my knowledge has complained.

The police have said they have no problems with it at all


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*Investigators: Evidence suggests terrorism motive for Chattanooga shootings*

Updated: Jul 21, 2015

Investigators said evidence and writings by Mohammad Abdulazeez suggested the motive, and he conducted internet searches about martyrdom on his smartphone a day before the shooting. (Source: Hamilton County Sheriff/CNN)
Investigators said evidence and writings by Mohammad Abdulazeez suggested the motive, and he conducted internet searches about martyrdom on his smartphone a day before the shooting. (Source: Hamilton County Sheriff/CNN)
(CNN) - Terrorism may have been the motive for attacks on two military facilities in Chattanooga, TN, last week.

Investigators said evidence and writings by Mohammad Abdulazeez suggested the motive, and he conducted internet searches about martyrdom on his smartphone a day before the shooting.

The FBI said the writings they are looking into are from 2013.

They said it appeared Abdulazeez was struggling with his mental health and religion, given his drug and alcohol use.

Four Marines and a Navy sailor died in Thursday's rampage.

The FBI wants to interview anyone who had contact with Abdulazeez in the days before the attacks.
much more.................

Copyright 2015 CNN. All rights reserved. 
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/21/us/tennessee-shooting-gunman-contacts/index.html

*It is good to see that the FBI was right from the beginning.*


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*Lawyer: Tennessee shooter's uncle detained in Jordan*

Karin Laub and Erik Schelzig, Associated Press
* Updated 1:05 pm, Tuesday, July 21, 2015 *

CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. (AP) &#8212; An uncle of the man who killed four Marines and a sailor in Tennessee has been in custody in Jordan since a day after the attacks on two military sites, a lawyer said Tuesday.
Abed al-Kader Ahmad al-Khateeb told The Associated Press that he was barred from seeing his client and that family members were also prevented from visiting the detainee. Computers and cellphones were taken from the man's home, but he has not been charged with anything, the attorney said.
Al-Khateeb identified his client as Asaad Ibrahim Asaad Haj Ali, a maternal uncle of the Chattanooga attacker, Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez.
excerpt:
A Jordanian official said Tuesday that he is sure the uncle and "other relevant people" in Jordan were being questioned, but he would not elaborate and or confirm that the uncle was detained. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case with the media.
Abdulazeez spent several months in Jordan last year under a mutual agreement with his parents to help him get away from drugs, alcohol and a group of friends they considered to be a bad influence, according to a person close to his family. That person also spoke on condition of anonymity, out of concern it would have business repercussions.
Relatives turned to Jordan after their health insurer refused to approve an in-patient treatment program for Abdulazeez's addictions to drug and alcohol, the person said.
According to a U.S. official familiar with the probe, investigators have found writings from Abdulazeez that reference Anwar al-Awlaki, a U.S.-born cleric who encouraged and inspired attacks on the homeland and was killed in a U.S. drone strike in September 2011. The official was not authorized to discuss by name an ongoing investigation and spoke on condition of anonymity.
However, investigators have said they have not found evidence that Abdulazeez was specifically directed by someone to carry out the attacks.
The FBI also has found other writings, from late 2013, not long after Abdulazeez was fired from a power plant job because of what a federal official has said was a failed drug test, a person close to the family said, speaking on condition of anonymity to avoid business repercussions.
more...........
http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/ar...oter-was-possibly-troubled-motive-6396418.php


99% of America knew his religion right off the bat and days later the media is still pushing this unknown motive BS.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The car wasn't moving while he was shooting, and your view of "return fire" is pretty unrealistic, since even with all the rounds fired, no bystanders were injured
> 
> Most "friendly fire" incidents in the military involve mistaken identity and quite often heavy ordnance, not small arms fire.
> 
> It's pretty easy to tell who's the bad guy when someone is shooting at you, and even a mediocre shot with a rifle will keep all his rounds on target at the short distances that were involved


There are also plenty of training injuries and friendly fire involving guns. Not to mention all the civilians killed in these firefights. 

No bystanders were injured by the shooter because he was shooting into the office from right in front of it, they would have to have been standing right in front of him on the sidewalk to get shot. The people inside the office would be shooting out. And coming from a position of panic and one less able to see what was outside. Which means they could miss the shooter and their shots would spread out into the parking lot.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I would like to see the Numbers on that.... I have a feeling that is pretty rare.



Good luck with that since the police aren't required to report anything at all.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

MO_cows said:


> It's a real pickle for the recruiters. They have to be in a visible and convenient location, they are "marketing" after all. It's probably pretty hard to recruit good recruiters as it is, not one of the "plum" assignments, I wouldn't think. Now they are going to the office every day wondering if they have a target on them. They should arm the ranking officer at each location at least. Posting MP security doesn't really make sense, posting an armed guard at the door would likely put off their "customers" and make it pretty hard to fulfill their mission. It makes more sense for potential attackers to know that somebody inside that office is armed and trained and capable of shooting back. A deterrent in case there are "copy cat" episodes.
> 
> I don't mean to take lightly "friendly fire" or collateral damage in police work, but it isn't a big problem. Most military "friendly fire" casualties are not from small arms in the first place. And for all the "officer involved shootings" that happen, injuries to bystanders are uncommon. So we don't want to increase their rate, of course, but the safety of our military personnel would take priority for me, over something that "might happen", or "happened once years ago" type of considerations.


Recruiters are generally voluntold not volunteers.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Just tonight on the news. ALL WI National Guard Regretting offices, will have ARMED Guards. 
After all there are armed guards even at Social Security offices, and that happened years ago.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

arabian knight said:


> Just tonight on the news. ALL WI National Guard Regretting offices, will have ARMED Guards.
> After all there are armed guards even at Social Security offices, and that happened years ago.


But they won't all be armed.

_Pentagon does not support arming all military personnel, spokesman says_
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/22/polit...port-arming-all-military-personnel/index.html


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Patchouli said:


> Recruiters are generally voluntold not volunteers.


Good to know, and all the more reason they shouldn't be stuck in the strip mall defenseless.


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

FBI: Too soon to know if Chattanooga gunman was radicalized

CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. (AP) â The Chattanooga gunman who killed five U.S. troops acted alone without help from anyone else, and investigators are treating him as a "homegrown violent extremist," the FBI said Wednesday.


However, it is too early to determine whether Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez was "radicalized" before the attacks at two military sites, said Ed Reinhold, the FBI's special agent in charge in Knoxville.

When asked during a news conference if Abdulazeez acted alone or in concert with others, Reinhold said he was currently being treated as a "homegrown violent extremist." He said investigators believe he acted alone.

"We do not have any indication that anyone else was assisting him on that day," Reinhold said


more
http://news.yahoo.com/attorney-uncle-chattanooga-shooter-just-businessman-083738880.html


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Patchouli said:


> There are also plenty of training injuries and friendly fire involving guns. Not to mention all the civilians killed in these firefights.
> 
> No bystanders were injured by the shooter because he was shooting into the office from right in front of it, they would have to have been standing right in front of him on the sidewalk to get shot. The people inside the office would be shooting out. And coming from a position of panic and one less able to see what was outside. Which means they could miss the shooter and their shots would spread out into the parking lot.


No bystanders were injured by the shooter merely because they didn't happen to be in his way. If they were between him and his target, think he wouldn't have shot anyway? And the walls between the recruiting office and the next small business might not be made of sturdy stuff, either. Isn't it fortunate that none of the shots went thru and hit an innocent bystander who just happened to be next to or behind the recruiting office??? But that was just dumb luck. 

And again you assume that if anybody inside the recruiting office would have been armed and returned fire, they would have just sprayed fire around without aiming or considering what was in their field of fire. 

You make it sound like the killer was just so much more skillful than the recruiters, they would have been like the Keystone Kops or something. I sure hope that's not how you meant it, but that's how it comes across.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

"homegrown violent extremist" = Muslim thug terrorist


Radicalized? How about just a Muslim doing what his Quran tells him to do? Kill the infidels for Islam and Allah Akbar.

Even the FBI has to handle the word with kid gloves.


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

How about letting the FBI do its work or should they just call you since you seem to be in the know.

He got what he deserved. I prefer to let the folks investigating do their job.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> Good luck with that since the police aren't required to report anything at all.


I may be wrong, but it's my understanding that anytime police or other leos or any govt agents or any military discharge a weapon intentionally or not,they are required to report it, go through debriefings, etc. If that is true, then i'd imagine that that info is either available and could be compiled or might require a foia request process, but could be obtained.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> There are also plenty of training injuries and friendly fire involving guns. Not to mention *all the civilians killed in these firefights*.


The numbers don't support that claim



> Which means *they could miss* the shooter and their shots would spread out into the parking lot.


Is there a point there?

It's better to be unarmed and die than take the slight risk someone might be hurt?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I may be wrong, but it's my understanding that anytime police or other leos or any govt agents or any military discharge a weapon intentionally or not,they are required to report it, go through debriefings, etc. If that is true, then i'd imagine that that info is either available and could be compiled or might require a foia request process, but could be obtained.


They wouldn't have to report any internal investigations to the public unless a crime is committed


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

MO_cows said:


> No bystanders were injured by the shooter merely because they didn't happen to be in his way. If they were between him and his target, think he wouldn't have shot anyway? And the walls between the recruiting office and the next small business might not be made of sturdy stuff, either. Isn't it fortunate that none of the shots went thru and hit an innocent bystander who just happened to be next to or behind the recruiting office??? But that was just dumb luck.
> 
> And again you assume that if anybody inside the recruiting office would have been armed and returned fire, they would have just sprayed fire around without aiming or considering what was in their field of fire.
> 
> You make it sound like the killer was just so much more skillful than the recruiters, they would have been like the Keystone Kops or something. I sure hope that's not how you meant it, but that's how it comes across.


That's not at all what I meant. If you fire bullets into a brick box they are contained. If you fire them out of a brick box they can go anywhere. It's just a matter of logistics. The shooter firing into a building (brick box) will have his bullets contained in those 4 walls. Even in a strip mall they put heavy walls between each store to contain fires. 

Any bullets shot out of the building have no walls to stop them. They could go on for a mile and there is no telling what they could hit in between. The recruiters were caught off guard, they would have been firing at a moving target, probably a fast moving target by the time they grabbed their weapons and started firing. And keep in mind your first response is find cover and your second is to shoot. Short of shooting willy nilly at the first shot fired into the building and getting lucky they have very little chance of hitting a drive-by shooter.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

This is what actually happened:



> A 24-year-old gunman armed with a semiautomatic assault rifle and a handgun moved methodically through a Naval Reserve center last week in Chattanooga, Tenn., as he hunted for Marines and sailors to kill, a senior FBI official said Wednesday.
> Edward Reinhold, special agent in charge of the FBIâs field office in Knoxville, Tenn., provided the first definitive account of the terrorist attack that left four Marines and a Navy petty officer dead.
> Reinhold told reporters at a news conference in Chattanooga that Mohammad Youssef Abdul-azeez smashed through the gate of the reserve center last Thursday and was almost immediately confronted by a service member who had his own gun.
> 
> ...


https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...98c088-3078-11e5-97ae-30a30cca95d7_story.html

So at the recruiting office we had one person injured and none killed. They went for cover and survived. 

At the Naval Reserve Center they had gates but no armed guards. Why I do not know, bases have armed guards and as I pointed out earlier that made the difference at the recent AFB attacked here in AR. Guy tried to ram the gates, base guards shot him. End of story. 

There were at least 2 armed military personnel, possibly 3. None of them managed to take down the shooter. One guy saw him as he was coming onto the center and didn't manage to take him out. If all of them had been armed it's quite likely they would have taken him down before the police got there but some most likely would have been killed too. The best way to have prevented loss of life would have been armed guards.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> This is what actually happened:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep one armed guard will take him down before he can shoot anybody.:facepalm:


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

This line from the story really stood out to me (read my tagline).

_The FBI said that moments later, officers with the Chattanooga Police Department arrived and killed Abdulazeez, ending an episode that lasted between three and five minutes at the reserve center._

The police response time seems to be fairly amazing, 3-5 minutes, yet he managed to kill several people. If that's not a blazing example of how depending on the police to protect you is false hope I don't know what is.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Old Vet said:


> Yep *one* armed guard will take him down before he can shoot anybody.:facepalm:



The post you quoted didn't say "one"

Even if it had, one is far better than none.

There was only one assailant wasn't there?

One armed guard probably wouldn't have prevented him firing the first shots, but if could have saved all the lives of those killed at the second location.

One armed cop killed him


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The post you quoted didn't say "one"
> 
> Even if it had, one is far better than none.
> 
> ...


OK then how many would it take? 10 or 199 at the post to take them down. and if Patchouli is right would it be advantage to have none and let the cops do the work and let the people die in the process instead of spraying bullets around in a crowed parking lock?


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## Deacon Mike (May 23, 2007)

Old Vet said:


> Yep one armed guard will take him down before he can shoot anybody.:facepalm:


 Unless it was this guy


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Old Vet said:


> OK then how many would it take? 10 or 199 at the post to take them down. and if Patchouli is right would it be advantage to have none and let the cops do the work and let the people die in the process instead of spraying bullets around in a crowed parking lock?


I didn't say she was right

There is no answer to "how many would it take" since it's too vague

Any are better than none, and one *can be* enough.

I'm thinking you must be an old animal Dr if you don't understand the logistics


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Nevada said:


> But they won't all be armed.
> 
> _Pentagon does not support arming all military personnel, spokesman says_
> http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/22/polit...port-arming-all-military-personnel/index.html


 Did I say all in the USA? I said All in WI.
And 7 other states as well the governors have done the same thing.
EAU CLAIRE, Wis. (WEAU) - Gov. Scott walker signed an executive order calling for members of the National Guard in Wisconsin to be armed.
And I don't give a rip what the pentagon says wants or thinks about this either. And I don;t care what Communist News Network thinks about it either.
Period


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Old Vet said:


> Yep one armed guard will take him down before he can shoot anybody.:facepalm:



That's what happened here in Arkansas. Does reality count for nothing with you people? Base guards took down a guy who tried to ram the gates and got out of his vehicle armed with a gun.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

http://www.lancastereaglegazette.co...15/07/23/armed-volunteer-fires-shot/30574117/


> *Armed man fires accidental shot near recruit center*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So let's see so far in the last week alone 1 recruiter shot himself with his gun and this numbnuts fired off his gun accidentally. And you guys think I am crazy for worrying about arming everyone....


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> http://www.lancastereaglegazette.co...15/07/23/armed-volunteer-fires-shot/30574117/
> 
> 
> So let's see so far in the last week alone 1 recruiter shot himself with his gun and this numbnuts fired off his gun accidentally. And you guys think I am crazy for worrying about arming everyone....


I don't think you're crazy.
I just think you're mistaken about how effective an armed defense can be, without anyone being hurt at all.

A couple of random incidents out of the millions of people who carry guns each day are meaningless


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> That's what happened here in Arkansas. Does reality count for nothing with you people? Base guards took down a guy who tried to ram the gates and got out of his vehicle armed with a gun.


That is what happens in most cases one person takes out the aggressor.


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