# question about feed and maggots



## simplefarmgirl (Mar 31, 2006)

I was at a farm today and notice in their grain & feed had maggots in it.. I asked about it and they said the pigs eat it all right, and they cant aford to throw it away.. I thought it was pretty gross, 
Will pigs eatting stuff like that bother them? Will it give them worms? Just wondering,, I wont buy my pigs from them, but they said they have been doing it for yrs,, just was wondering about the effect on the pigs.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Umm... Pigs love to eat maggots, e.g., fly larva, beetle larva, etc. Chickens love 'em too. Grubs are a wonderful source of protein and lipids (fats). They'll chow down on them if they get the chance.

'Worms' that one needs to worry about regarding parasitic infections are an entirely different species than what you likely saw in the feed. My guess is you saw fly larva.

If you want to grow your own high quality pig and chicken chow, figure out a good way to grow earth worms and 'maggots'.  No kidding. Grubs for grub!

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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## simplefarmgirl (Mar 31, 2006)

Wow,, I figured it would be bad for them,, Thank you for the information,, I dont feel so bad for the pigs now, I thought they were getting things that were bad for them. I knew chickens ate stuff like that, but didnt realize it was ok for pigs worrying about worms, Thank you


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## Charleen (May 12, 2002)

Lucky pigs :1pig:


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## QueenB04 (Feb 9, 2005)

Simplefarmgirl: Pigs can and will eat the maggots, and other larvae as mentioned, great source of protein. However, I would never, ever let my feed be contaminated like that, you run the risk for alot of problems. We have in the past intentionally targeted larvae for the chickens before, but these conditions were removed from our feed storage areas and from the animals. The last thing I need is fly strike. It does have its benefits though as it draws the flies to a specific area where they tend to leave the other guys alone, but it's all about proper management. Growing them in a feed source to me is inexcusable and poor management and sanitation. Maggots have purposes, and a food source is one of them, but not quite that way.


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## chichi (Jul 4, 2007)

Wow queenb04. You are soo wrong. Your letting your emotions gettin in the way of thinking. Growing larva and worms is a wonderful source of feed for pigs and chickens. There are a lot of articles on the web about it and some of them are scientific research from the universities as well as organic stuff. Your saying it is inexcuesable is just emotional baggage that won't let you see the reality. Get over it. Maggots and worms are good food. So are flies and other bugs.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

.....the feed is obviously grossly contaminated and there easily could be any number of species of mold growing in the feed (mycotoxins can, and do, cause severe liver damage/death)......also maggots can be an effective vector for the transmission of botulism to animals....be they chickens or pigs.......3-4 infected maggots are sufficient to kill a chicken with botulism.....some amy dodge the bullet for a long time but feeding contaminated/spoiled feed will catch up to 'you'.......


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

chichi said:


> Wow queenb04. You are soo wrong. Your letting your emotions gettin in the way of thinking. Growing larva and worms is a wonderful source of feed for pigs and chickens. There are a lot of articles on the web about it and some of them are scientific research from the universities as well as organic stuff. Your saying it is inexcuesable is just emotional baggage that won't let you see the reality. Get over it. Maggots and worms are good food. So are flies and other bugs.


Many years ago this was true. With so many unexplained deaths there has been quite a bit of research done on feeding maggots and worms. Test results show botulism was the cause of many of the unexplained deaths of both birds and animals. 
It has been many years since anyone has suggested feeding worms or maggots.


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## QueenB04 (Feb 9, 2005)

ChiChi: woah woah, hold on now. Re-read my post. I stated that I have and do feed larvae for the chickens, and pigs. We have a very complex system set up for this to attract as many sources of insects as possible, and as many larval stages as possible as well. 
My issue was raising these in a direct feed source. Different strokes for different folks, but to directly contaminate feed is opening the door for a series of problems. No emotional baggage, straight up common sense. I am an advocate for maggots, as we used them for medical proceedures as debri removal in open wounds. They are great little infection preventors! 

My issue is to allow them in a feed bag or container which collects moisture, and with decay present to attract flies and entertain a maggot nursery you are also entertaining botulism, various types of mold and mildew, and many other coliforms of bacteria that otherwise should not be present in a food source. Not to mention the other critters this will attract that can do far more damage then the sources mentioned above. This may be fine to feed to some animals who can ingest and process these dangers, but you also run the risk of cross contamination to animals who cannot. This may of worked for the specific farm that she visited, but I don't want people thinking 'oh, I can leave my feed out, or have bad feel open and invite as many lovely critters to host on it and feed my animals.' This is not how it works. 

Animal husbandry comes with responsibilities. If you choose to feed insect larvae by all means do so, it's great! Just as anything else, practice good clean methods to avoid cross contamination, and avoid consiquences that can arrise with improper care. The area you choose to attract flies etc. should be removed from feed sources, and animals that may be prone to health problems, or near newborns, or injured or sick animals. Fly strike is a real problem, and though you may be giving them an alternative food source you are also attracting thousands of insects that will also target any nearby food source. Regardless of what methods you use to attract insects, you're farm is the greatest buffet on earth, they will stick their finger in whatever is available. Three flies can lay enough eggs to inter a lifecycle of maggots that can clean a medium carcass in a week. Maggots may prevent infection true, but this is in a controlled setting, when you have tens of thousands of them all trying eat you run the risk of killing healthy tissue thus giving them more food to focus on. Fly strike is a very painful and debilitating condition. You also need to consider that you are not attracting just the standard house fly, you are inviting them and about 40 other different species to wine and dine. Blowflies, and bots are two of the most damaging species to livestock. Once the eggs hatch the larvae penetrates the skin of the host and will make a nice cozy home while doing great damage to the animal, not to mention seconday infections they cause as well.

My method is using a 100 gallon oil drum. We have slits cut (about 1 inch high, 18" wide) throughout the barrel that we insert 'shelves' into. These shelves consist of varying guages of screen material streched across on left over pieces of rebarb. We have 5 slits, 4 differnt gauge screen, running from the top to the bottom. In the bottom we have an additional tray which I will explain in a moment. We also have holes drilled through the bottom of the drum to allow moisture to seep out, and it set in the ground inside a 10" deep hole with a 5 foot circumfrence. This setup is kept at the fartherst spot from our animals at the back of the farm, next to our compost areas. It's about 250 yards from our last paddock. Now....my methods. When we have organic waste, we use everything from table scraps, to entrails from carcass dressings, we take our waste out and then divide the waste on the screens. 1st screen is large fencing wire, about chain link size holes but a small wire, large meat waste, turkey necks, chicken bones, stew hocks etc. goes on top of this, slide the tray back in. Pull out tray 2, larger guage chicken wire, smaller meat wastes, also corn ears, etc. Slide tray #2 back in. Tray number 3, is larger guage window screen wire, not that you would use in your home windows, these holes are bigger so small bugs could get through, which is the point. Plant waste, spoiled lettuce, tomatoes, fruit, small meat bits etc goes on this one. Screen #4 is standard window screen, put liquid wastes, spaghetti sauce, fruits, vegetables etc. on this. Lastly, is a large tray in the bottom that is a piece of plyboard covered in leftover plasitc bath wall covering when we installed a shower. Put some compost soil on this, and whatever additional waste you have left, cereal, milk, grains, chicken bones, large or small can go in this. Wet it down as well before sliding it back in the barrel. Leave it along for three days. 
When day 3 rolls around collect a 5 gallon bucket and head to the drum. What you will have is incredible. On the first screen you will have your first stage larvae, just hatched and still in egg form. Take your screen dump it out in your bucket. Any meat scraps with flesh still apparent, or bones, put back on the screen or remove the bones. Tray #2, you will have larger larvae and some smaller larvae too. Repeat dumping the screen in the bucket and pick out any good pieces and put them back on the screen. Repeat this process. As you progress down the line you will have larger insects, more advanced larvae stages, and more protein packed snacks. When you get to the bottom tray you can proceed two different ways. You can leave it, or you can pull it out and sift the waste through a sifting screen over your compost pile. In this you will have your grubs, earthworms, dermestid beetles, dung beetles, stag beetles, etc. These guys asides from the grubs and the worms don't offer the same yum factor as the rest. Dermestid beetles especially are guys you want to keep around. Demestidae vulpis as they are known scientifically are the clean up crew. Little black beetles that strip away flesh cleaner then an acid bath. They are the chosen ones of the taxidermy buisness right next to meal worms. These guys love anything that smells of decay, and are friends to the compost. As the rest of your waist is being broken down they will feed off the remains, and churn the soil. You'll also have these fellas up on the other layers as well, but they prefer the warm moist soil best of all. We sift the bottom tray about every month, add it to the finished compost, and then put newer compost back in the tray. We generally leave all the beetles alone and feed soft bodied snacks to our guys. 
The reason we have a pit dug out that our drum sits in is for several reasons. For 1 it is a natural way to attract eathworms in the ground, it stays cooler so the soil does not overheat (the compost inside is always steamy, but does not overheat this way,) If something tips it over it does not spill bugs and week old dinner all over the ground. Predators tend not to bother it, and run off is filtered through the dirt rather then directly onto the top soil. I forgot to mention that the hole does have a slight angle to it, with small drainage channels cut down in the ground. When it rains the run off is drained into the field. My lilacs were the prettiest I have seen this year. Yes I do plant liliacs to help incase any wind blows the smell near the house. 

So...there is my method. It's clean, it's easy to manage, and it feeds the chickens and pigs twice a week an extra punch of protein twice a week. It also allows me to keep an eye on what I have going on. If something goes bad I can dump everything into the compost, wash the equipment and start again. It's away from the animals, and the guineas run up front to help with the rest near where the animals are kept, so we have a great bug control method. 

Now ChiChi, I hope you see that I do not have an "emotional baggage" problem, and that I have nothing to "get over." I hope you won't be so presumptuous to tag anyone so quickly again. I realize I did not explain everything in the first post, but I stated that rearing larvae is a good thing. A positive attitude when taking in someones views in the proper context would be appreciated. I view everyone's thought with an open mind. If they are incorrect or state incorrect information the best way to approach that is to be genuine about it. Should you wish to challenge me on any further issues I would be happy to do so, but in a polite and responsible way. No ill intentions.

Now that my system is laid out I hope it provides some education material, and better practices associated with doing so. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask me, I'll be happy to explain anything further. 

Simplefarmgirl: I hope this clarifies any questions you had


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## QueenB04 (Feb 9, 2005)

Thank you BobK and Pancho, I missed your posts while typing mine. I appreciate other well versed commentary on this subject. It is a hit or miss topic, and not a popular method of feeding, and not for beginners. Some knowlege of entomology is required in my opinion.


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## simplefarmgirl (Mar 31, 2006)

Boy I didnt mean to start a war. Was just concerned about maggots and feed. I understand now i guess that its ok for the pigs to eat them. The food was a barrle of grain and bread that was wet it was contained and not in any other grain, Their dry grain was sperate from what had maggots in it. I guess tis isnt something that happens all the time just i happen to be there on a day they were feeding out that barrel. Thank you all for your comments they are greatly appriecated


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Many years ago it was a very common practice for farmers to hang road kill in the pasture out of reach of any animals. Road kill was free, flys were free, and the maggots were a free feed. The maggots would mature and fall to the ground below and be eaten. It was very common, especially for hogs and poultry. Many of the old books and some of the web sites copied from old books still have it as a way of saving money for feed. Thankfully there has been quite a bit of research done since then. If people do not keep up with research they will still believe what was done in the past can be true today. A person may get away with feeding worms and maggots but then again it may kill every animal that eats them. It will just depend on how lucky a person is.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

I thought everyone ate maggots? :shrug:


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## QueenB04 (Feb 9, 2005)

Simplefarmgirl: No war started  With the bread in the feed like that, I don't want to know what the total count of living organisms living in that feed container. That is a gross and completely irresponsible and inexcusable thing to do. That is where it is wrong. This type of feeding practice is not very common, and a background in entomology and biology is the best thing to have to understand the complex breakdown that occurs in organic material, and the toxins that these produce that instar larvae feed on. When you get down to the technical apescts of this process there is alot to learn. I will say that as Pancho mentioned, you can get lucky, but not knowing exactly what to look for you will be garuanteed to have problems at some point. I test the larvae if I suspect anything is off, and we only do small scraps to allow the larvae to feed efficiently and quickly, minimizing the risk of certain bacteria. I can get into a very long winded technical discussion involving chemistry compounds, but I won't, since your question has been asked and answered. We generally only feed our chickens once a week sometimes less mostly maggots, the pigs get the grubs and worms and soft insects. You can get up to two feedings a week, but the more you feel the more your chances of danger in crease. We also recycle everything into the compost bin for proper disposal of the organic material from there out. Everything has a purpose, but everything presents it's own risks. Knowlege and Management is the key, and even these can go wrong, that is how and why we learn. =)


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## waygr00vy (Aug 7, 2005)

I would be less concerned about that actual maggots than the reason they are there. If the feed is that wet, it is most likely moldy and sour and certainly can't be good for them.


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