# The "designer rabbit" project ... lop eared Rex



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I decided this needed to go to a new thread since it was now focusing more on actual "designing a new type" rather than selling pets ...

It is a project that I am very interested in myself and I've started a new blog, separate from the Kaleidoscope Farm rabbit blog just for the crossbreeding project.

So far, just a short introduction and photos of the first two "foundation rabbits" which produced my first F1 cross, using a Rex doe and a Velveteen Lop buck.

This one was from last summer, my first effort and I now have F2 litters as well as two more F1 litters ... photos and information will be posted as I get them organized!

Would definitely like input from others working on or interested in this kind of program ... http://designerrabbits.blogspot.com.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2009)

I will be reading! Out of curiousity, are you keeping track of your colors you are using as well? Do you "do" genotypes when breeding?


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Yes, I'm keeping track of the colors as I'm using all fully pedigreed rabbits to start with and have that information on the pedigrees. I'm not very competent with color genetics (yet) and it seems to be a MUCH slower learning curve for me with the rabbits than it was with the horses ... but I'm not giving up yet!

I'm also keeping track of what colors were in the litters as well, not just what I ended up keeping for the next generation of breeding stock. This will give me a better base for correct color genetics than just parents' colors, or at least it will once I have a better grasp of things.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2009)

That's good that you're keeping up with the colors. Especially all the colors in the litters. I'm still learning alot about them too. It's amazing what you can learn just from what they did or didn't throw in a litter. 

What was it you said you were breeding to the Velveteen/Rex does? Hollands and MR? Just trying to keep up with what you're doing! 

Let me know if you need help with colors! I'm no expert, but love trying to figure them out!


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Lyndseyrk said:


> What was it you said you were breeding to the Velveteen/Rex does? Hollands and MR? Just trying to keep up with what you're doing!


I've actually got two "parallel" projects going ... "big" lop eared Rex and "mini" lop eared Rex. The Rex/Velveteen cross does are the "foundation" for both ... I seem to be getting a moderately sized rabbit from that cross ... not as big as straight Rex but bigger than the Velveteens.

For the "minis" I'm hoping to go to bucks from a MiniRex/Holland Lop cross. That would give me a small buck that carried (hopefully) both the lop ears and one gene for the Rex coat. 

For the "big" lop eared Rex, I'm actually considering trying to find a French Lop doe, breeding her to a Rex buck and use that French Lop/ Rex cross back on the Rex/Velveteen crosses to produce a bigger meat type rabbit.


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## JCWehking (Jun 2, 2009)

I've subscribed to this thread. Have no time to read it now, but I am really interested in the "designer" rabbit. Wish I didn't have to go now!


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## Lilandra (Oct 21, 2004)

i am working on a project bunny too... fuzzy satins 
kinda like a jersey woolie but with satin fur. I have red satin angoras and chocolate satins. my satins are just getting old enough to breed and will try once fair is over.

i am interested in your velveteens with smaller ears - those sound adorable 
keep us posted


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2009)

I did some research online today. You probably already knew that the Rex fur was recessive. I was trying to find out about the lop ears...recessive or dominant...and come to find out they are neither. I can't remember the name for it but basically breeding a lop to an "up" eared rabbit will produce a mid-range lop rabbit. So you're right when having to just cull the non-lop ones out. I'd say that's why the Velveteen was developed with the English Lop, because of the large size of ears, the sheer weight is what makes them lop, and even if slightly smaller ears are passed onto offspring when bred to a non-lop rabbit, the offspring will most likely lop. Also found that ear thickness and base of the skull affect the lop. SO....your right on the money breeding what you come up with back to the Velveteen. The problem is with starting from scratch (not using the Velveteen) is that when you accomplish the recessive rex fur, the ears aren't going to have that lop, because the first rex fur will actually be 3/4 rex and 1/4 lop. To get that lop back, you'd need to breed back to a lop at once and possibly twice. In doing so, you'll probably lose that rex fur! So by breeding back to a Velveteen you'd get both. I've got so much in my head right now...I need to put this on paper.


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## jhuebner (Mar 29, 2009)

Have you looked at the genetics you're trying to achieve? 

I'd look at a few of these resources... they may give you some guidance as to what you are trying is achievable ... 

http://www.debmark.com/rabbits/genetics.htm

http://www.thenaturetrail.com/Holland-Lop-Genetics-Home.htm

http://www.threelittleladiesrabbitry.com/rabbitcolorgeneticsindex.php

http://www.rabbitweb.net/review3.asp

There are many other published books on rabbit genetics.

Rabbit Coat Color Genetics 8th edit. by G.Huffmon.
The Netherland Dwarf Color Guide by G. Huffmon.
Color Genetics of the Netherland Dwarf Rabbit by B. Schott.
...are a few of my favorites.

I'm personally a "standards breeder" ... to preserve, perfect, and protect the standards of the breeds I raise  IMHO  

Good luck to all! 

JLH


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Lyndseyrk said:


> I did some research online today. You probably already knew that the Rex fur was recessive. I was trying to find out about the lop ears...recessive or dominant...and come to find out they are neither. SO....your right on the money breeding what you come up with back to the Velveteen.
> 
> That's one of the major reasons I am using the Velveteen Lop for the cross, it already has the Rex coat, plus the lop ears, so I'm several generations ahead at least on the Rex coat, for my "foundation" does. All I have to work on with this line is the lop ears.
> 
> ...


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

jhuebner said:


> Have you looked at the genetics you're trying to achieve?
> 
> I'd look at a few of these resources... they may give you some guidance as to what you are trying is achievable ...
> 
> ...


I need to check to see if I've found all of those genetics information links ... I know I've got two of them bookmarked, not sure of the others ... and have two of the color genetics books as well ... though I have found rabbit color genetics more difficult than equine color genetics!

I've done a lot of "standards breeding" as well ... that was the thing ranchers did with cattle when I was growing up. The contract buyers wanted "all one kind" ... they would cut the price if you had "mismarked" cattle ... you wanted all Herefords, or Angus, purebreds of one specific breed.

Then when I was a teenager they started crossing the Hereford and Angus and got the F1 hybred vigor in those crosses ... ranchers liked them because they were more resistant to disease, feed lots liked them because they grew out faster so the buyers were actually paying a premium price for that cross. I suppose that's where my interest in crossbreeding for particular purposes started.

I've certainly done my share of "standards breeding" as well ... I bred show dogs for more than 20 years and produced a number of specialty and national winners and warmblood horses that are still producing premium foals in the breed inspections ... but I have to admit I really enjoy the challenges of "designing" something different.

If I could still get out to show, I'm sure I would also breed Rex and show them as well ... I started with breeding stock that have been shown, are from bloodlines that have done well in shows and/or have produced show winners. But without the ability to show, and compete, it just doesn't seem to be enough of a challenge for me to continue to breed what is already "there".


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