# Man do I hate old houses



## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

Yesterday was the day to really hit our remodel job of the laundry room. 
After consulting with my dad we decided to just take down the old paneling and then remove the plaster from the lathe and plaster. It is in bad shape and sagging badly. Will be replacing with 3/8" drywall.
Anyway while I was knocking the plaster off a wall down near the floor I was surprised to see a spark. Turns out someone fished 2 12/3 wires up from the basement and they go in front of a stud to get to where they need to go.
One of the wires is pretty chewed up by mice or whatever...
So picked up some new 12/3 and started running new wire...while pulling that one somehow it pulled against the 10/2 running to the dryer and there was another "POOF". The hole is a ways off from where the new wire crossed it and would never have been noticed if I hadn't jiggled it. So I guess in a way it's a good thing I did.
But now it's off to the store again for more stuff.....


----------



## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Oh boy. Be careful, sammyd!

I am working on an old house right now.
The first time I hammered in a window trim board it caused a breaker to flip.
Turned out that someone had put a run of wiring along a crack between the ceiling and wall drywall, then a piece of molding over it.
The nails holding the molding up? Yep, right through the wire. Charming.
All of that for a stupid lightbulb in a closet too. 

Old homes are filled with mysteries to unravel.
If it makes you feel any better though? Modern workmen dont always do a great job either.

Be safe!


----------



## ItchingDuck (Jan 25, 2012)

I hear you about old homes. Especially old homes that were upkept by a fruit cake. The guy caring for this house before us was obsessed with caulk and spray foam from a can. Everything was fixed with these two things. And he used cauk like paint...meaning instead of a bead, he used half a tube and painted and smeared. The electrical? Lordy. I won't touch it. I may just leave well enough alone. It is unreal. Then again I didn't invest a whole lote here and it is in better shape than the last place I lived that was 4 times the price!
I hate old homes too, as I sit here freezing in the draft from ill hung doors


----------



## Raven12 (Mar 5, 2011)

I did a basic insulating job of this old farmhouse and now I have saved a ton on oil heat. It is amazing how a little upkeep can change a place.

The good thing about old homes is that they teach you a lot about construction and the real estate market.


----------



## homemaid (Apr 26, 2011)

I understand the treasures you find in an old house. We totally redone this farmhouse we still Luce in. We started one room at a time tore out lath and plaster, windows,re-wired, insulated then drywalled the entire house. We say so many things done by previous owners it makes you wonder who could be so stupid....... Now we sure wish we would have just bulldozed it down and built new... After all the work and money we still have an old house...


----------



## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

1870-1890 house here, so i'm here to follow this thread since i will be doing more reno's soon LOL.
Be cautious, stay safe!


----------



## Wingdo (Oct 5, 2002)

I worked on a 1848/50 model home w/14'/16' ceilings and electric installed in 1920. Where it is/was an absolute nightmare to get going with the rework the final outcome was well worth the experience... I've not complained about half-assed carpenters since! The real joy was once that one was finished there was another just like it, built by the original owner's brother (both doctors), that needed many of the same repairs... this one only took 8 months to re-work/model as most of the shortcuts in the first one were anticipated. I'm a better man for the experience.


----------



## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

I had a house that was built in 1898. Remember, straight, plumb, square, and level are just abstractions that have no basis in the real world. 

It's amazing what previous owners have done over the years and how much of it is something Rube Goldberg would have appreceated. 

On any project you start you will discover at least twice as much needs to be fixed as you thought.


----------



## Raven12 (Mar 5, 2011)

primal1 said:


> 1870-1890 house here, so i'm here to follow this thread since i will be doing more reno's soon LOL.
> Be cautious, stay safe!


Yes, count me in as one of those that would like to see this thread continue.


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm working on our farm house that I'm told was built maybe some time around 1890.... 

Oh man what fun... As a whole, the outside walls are solid.. BUT, I'm still going to have to repair the bottom sill and jack up one wall.. A doorway in the downstairs, and directly above it upstairs is a window. Both were old and original to the house... covered up, and not reinforced... To make it worse, the bottom sill under them rotted out.. 

Next weekend I am going to start tearing out the floor and joists on the downstairs floor. Half the room rotted away, and caved in, the other half of the floor was replaced, but done completely wrong, and looks like a roller coaster, and has pulled away from the wall I need to repair.. 

For the most part electric and water was done right, ,but I've found some issues to take care of.... 

All walls will have to be insulated. The upstairs tongue and groove flooring will need to be removed, the floor raised in the middle from down stairs, and new joists sistered onto the old ones that have sagged in the middle of the room... All walls and ceilings in the house will have to be drywalled... 

Yeah.. it's a fun one.. OH, and I have to build a new staircase to the upstairs after I widen the cutout to the upstairs.. 

I fear everything I look at and start on, because it seems that's attached to something else that needs to be addressed.. and then that leads to one more thing... and the best part is, the closest Lowe's is about 30 miles away.. .

I've been learning to plan my materials needed very well... especially since the house is 300 miles from our current home.


----------



## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Did an 1817 stone 3 story farmhouse that was abandoned...took 12 years to "finish".
Currently, our 1860 version is getting a bigger kitchen...
the joys.
Best of luck, and remember, PEX is your friend.

Matt


----------



## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

It gets old working on a house built by someone who shouldn't be allowed to have a hammer. Every cut is custom.

Once it took me 4 hours to put up 4 pieces of soffit. That entire wall bows in about 6" and the roof follows the rafter ends. It changed in every direction and even thickness and IT STILL LOOKS COBBLED TOGETHER. After a while you just say good enough get it done and don't look at it for a while.


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

LOL... I've been trying to find something straight or level on my house, and have yet to... I'm thinking if I have a few drinks before I start working on it, my work should match the previous people's work.


----------



## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

I live in a three year old house. They put it on a hill and didn't do the foundation properly and now there's a breeze from where it's cracking apart down the middle [because the side that's not on the hill is in a ditch that floods] and breaking in half. Doors are no longer square. We estimate 3-5 years before this house is condemned.

I'm moving to a 110 year old home. It's still standing. The only problem is it was built up upon so the rooms vaguely resemble a rose-shaped hedge maze. There's windows on the inside going to the inside! I can see my closet inside my craft room. Again, it's still standing. Three floods, two bushfires. Standing. It's more solid than the hulk. About the same colour too.


----------



## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

There must be a way to put a new foundation under your house.


----------



## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

There is, but it's ridiculously expensive. Good thing I don't own it!


----------



## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I have found it better to remodel down to the bare frame and level, square and plumb as best you can to pull it together, instead of doing 1 room at a time. One old house I remodeled was built in 1853 and was 2 thicknesses of rough cut 1"x12" douglas fir, half lapped from floor to peak of the roof. It had 4"x4" framing in the corners but no studs, single top plate on top of the side walls with rafters set on it. Window frames set in the 2" thick walls with no headers, even on the lower floor. 2nd floor, floor joists were 3"x6", 12" apart, just nailed onto the walls. No foundation, just oak blocks and a few stumps, yes stumps....James


----------



## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

sammyd said:


> Yesterday was the day to really hit our remodel job of the laundry room.
> After consulting with my dad we decided to just take down the old paneling and then remove the plaster from the lathe and plaster. It is in bad shape and sagging badly. Will be replacing with 3/8" drywall.
> Anyway while I was knocking the plaster off a wall down near the floor I was surprised to see a spark. Turns out someone fished 2 12/3 wires up from the basement and they go in front of a stud to get to where they need to go.
> One of the wires is pretty chewed up by mice or whatever...
> ...


The Home Depot Law: No home improvement project will ever be finished with less than 3 trips to the hardware store.


----------



## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

jwal10 said:


> I have found it better to remodel down to the bare frame and level, square and plumb as best you can to pull it together, instead of doing 1 room at a time. One old house I remodeled was built in 1853 and was 2 thicknesses of rough cut 1"x12" douglas fir, half lapped from floor to peak of the roof. It had 4"x4" framing in the corners but no studs, single top plate on top of the side walls with rafters set on it. Window frames set in the 2" thick walls with no headers, even on the lower floor. 2nd floor, floor joists were 3"x6", 12" apart, just nailed onto the walls. No foundation, just oak blocks and a few stumps, yes stumps....James


 The house you describe is called a "Plank" house in this rural area of the northeast. They were extremely common from the point that sawmills became widely available (1850?) to the 1920s, when balloon framed, stud wall homes took over. I have done work on several. They started on a massively overbuilt, timber frame first floor deck, with an 8" square sill beam. The first layer was 18' tall planks, spiked to the side of the sill. They were sawn straight through the tree, not square edged, so each plank was alternated, tip down, then butt down, to keep them tight. The next layer was the same height, and overlapped to cover the gaps in the first. No corner posts, no window or door framing. I have seen a third layer, 8' tall, spiked to the inside, to provide a ledge for the second floor. In that case, the second floor deck was seriously underbuilt, with full dimension 2x8s, spanning 19'. The outside was sided with clapboard, and the inside lath and plastered. It's almost hard to believe, but these places are incredibly durable, and if the foundation is still straight and solid, the house is typically in great shape. Given that these homes were always built on a thick stone foundation, typically a full basement, many of these will still be here a hundred years from now.


----------



## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

> Once it took me 4 hours to put up 4 pieces of soffit.


LOL
I have all ready redone the roof over the laundry room and back porch. The fascia was installed about 1 1/2" away from the end of the rafters in several places and it let all kinds of water into the roof. Several of the rafters were totally rotted away at the end.
2 layers of shingles, a layer of 3/4" plywood, 2 more layers of shingles, then wooden shakes later I found the sheathing.....


----------



## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

notbutanapron said:


> I live in a three year old house. They put it on a hill and didn't do the foundation properly and now there's a breeze from where it's cracking apart down the middle [because the side that's not on the hill is in a ditch that floods] and breaking in half. Doors are no longer square. We estimate 3-5 years before this house is condemned.
> 
> I'm moving to a 110 year old home. It's still standing. The only problem is it was built up upon so the rooms vaguely resemble a rose-shaped hedge maze. There's windows on the inside going to the inside! I can see my closet inside my craft room. Again, it's still standing. Three floods, two bushfires. Standing. It's more solid than the hulk. About the same colour too.


Have you considered moving the new house to a new proper foundation, at the cost of the building that may be a low cost fix in the scheme of things,


----------



## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

farminghandyman said:


> Have you considered moving the new house to a new proper foundation, at the cost of the building that may be a low cost fix in the scheme of things,


I rent.


----------



## fatrat (Feb 21, 2009)

I know of a man who would go to the owners of old homes and make a legal agreement in writing to search their basement floors with a metal detector. These old homes had dirt floors in the basements. If he found anything it was divided between the two as stated in the legal agreement. In one place he found three pint jars filled with gold coins. Apparently way back the original owner stored their life savings in gold buried in the basement. 

It wasn't that long ago when gold was money and people were paid in cash. When we were younger the money was silver. We could go to any bank and trade our currency for silver at face value. Try that today and you would just get laughed at. It's hard to imagine now that I used to walk around with silver and spend it! How many people back then hid silver money in their homes?

If you have an old home you may have more than you think. Check all nooks and crannies and basement floors well before permanently covering them up. There's no telling what some people may have left behind.


----------



## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

Great idea, i never thought to metal detect the ground in the basement.. I did plan to do that where the outhouse and barn were. This house used to be the blacksmith's place and his barn/workshop was right next to the house, digging my garden i found tons of bits of metal but nothing really exciting yet.


----------



## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

wharton said:


> The house you describe is called a "Plank" house in this rural area of the northeast. They were extremely common from the point that sawmills became widely available (1850?) to the 1920s, when balloon framed, stud wall homes took over. I have done work on several. They started on a massively overbuilt, timber frame first floor deck, with an 8" square sill beam. The first layer was 18' tall planks, spiked to the side of the sill. They were sawn straight through the tree, not square edged, so each plank was alternated, tip down, then butt down, to keep them tight. The next layer was the same height, and overlapped to cover the gaps in the first. No corner posts, no window or door framing. I have seen a third layer, 8' tall, spiked to the inside, to provide a ledge for the second floor. In that case, the second floor deck was seriously underbuilt, with full dimension 2x8s, spanning 19'. The outside was sided with clapboard, and the inside lath and plastered. It's almost hard to believe, but these places are incredibly durable, and if the foundation is still straight and solid, the house is typically in great shape. Given that these homes were always built on a thick stone foundation, typically a full basement, many of these will still be here a hundred years from now.


Similar. No foundation here, just set on oak blocks, stumps or big rocks. The inside was heavy cloth wallpaper hung on the rough boards. The boards were all square edged....James


----------



## Sturedman (Nov 18, 2012)

I bought a house at an auction for $16,000. Built in the 1870's. My wife didn't know it, but when I took her by, she said "no way you are moving me and the kids into this pit.". I said "but dear, 9 months and about 20,000, we will have a fine home" $90,000 and 4 years later we had a fine home lol. Never again will I attempt that! I'm just glad when I sold it, I didn't lose any money on it. Not counting my labor and sweat haha.


----------



## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

Before wire had insulation it was bare wires in old houses and as long as it was nailed to wood via nails for standoffs it was ok.


----------



## HuskyBoris (Feb 14, 2013)

fishhead said:


> It gets old working on a house built by someone who shouldn't be allowed to have a hammer. Every cut is custom.
> 
> Once it took me 4 hours to put up 4 pieces of soffit. That entire wall bows in about 6" and the roof follows the rafter ends. It changed in every direction and even thickness and IT STILL LOOKS COBBLED TOGETHER. After a while you just say good enough get it done and don't look at it for a while.


I know what you mean but not always the fault of Mr Builder.old houses settle and twist and bend in weird ways that can really leave you scratching your head,I just (monday)got done laying a floor in my bedroom to find the room not square either.the house started life as a grain mill in the late 1800's and was also a sugar shack for maple syruping,had a small fire,was wired for electrical,had 2 additions put on and has been in the wifes family since being built.
I was underneath it 2 days ago looking at the foundation and flooring and realized that after 100 years it was still in better shape underneath than many way newer houses I have seen.it's set on logs and rocks and criss crossed flooring,the only places I have any issues is where the kitchen sink leaked for a long time and where the old front door was.


----------



## chayseb (Dec 7, 2012)

My house was built in the 1850s and i have yet to find one thing square on this place...putting on the siding and im finally done fixing this old place up, but it was well worth it, spent a lot of time with my grandpa during the time and that cant have a price tag placed on it.


----------



## Steve in PA (Nov 25, 2011)

My house had made me HATE working on houses anymore. I used to love remodeling/construction. Maybe that changed when I had to do it or maybe it's just THIS house.

Built in 1877/78 "remodeled" in 1918 (found newspapers behind the newest plaster) with plenty of other "improvements" all along the way. Not one square corner and it seems outside of the original build every shortcut that could be taken was indeed taken.

So many times I've just considered knocking it down and starting over, but I just don't know if economically that makes sense...so I keep remodeling


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Here's how I left the den area in our house last weekend... Next time we're out there the rest of the floor downstairs comes out... 

Then the fun of lifting walls starts... *sigh*

BTW, we had planned a few months ago that we'll be dragging a metal detector over all that dirt.. 


DSCN0239 by DC-Duo, on Flickr


----------



## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

Wow big job, your sills look in great shape though! Good luck with the metal detector!


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Yeah.. the sills are beams that are 10x10 hand hewn oak.. They are all still solid with no rot or termites so we're real lucky.. just rotted joists.

The other half of the floor had been replaced, but done all wrong... toe nailed into the beams, not on hangers, the joists are 16 feet and no bridging and there's a 10x2 used as a beam where the bridging should be, and it's just sitting on the ground with no piers.. SO.. out it comes to be done right...


----------



## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

i'm surprised they could get nails into the oak haha.. ya the kitchen half of my house rotted out and was replaced badly... no plans on going there though lol


----------



## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

Semi-stead - the sunken living room look went out in the 60s. :teehee:


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

LOL.. yeah... but I hear dirt floors are all the rage for homesteaders


----------



## HuskyBoris (Feb 14, 2013)

hooo wee!
sure am glad I didn't have go down that far,are you walls painted that color or is barewood?


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

They are painted that color. If you look close there between the windows, you can see where there was a little shelf hanging years and years ago and the walls were originally green. They painted around it... I'm sure that took less effort than just removing the shelf..

The large green spot by the window used to be an old phone it appears.. there were old phone wires there, and you can see the mounting holes, and how the top is arched like the old pay phones were.. makes me wonder...


----------



## HuskyBoris (Feb 14, 2013)

thats cool,I seen the old shelf mark but didn't know what the other one was,was the number BR 549?,,lol,my house is sitting on rocks and stumps with 10 inch pine logs mitered into each other,the joist are in good shape and the tongue in groove is as well but it's going to make for some tricky plumbing work


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Thankfully there is no plumbing in that part of the house. It's all in the attic portion of the kitchen and mudroom/bathroom addition and easy to get to... 

What is a drag is the part about having to lift the walls in a couple spots. One wall has about a 3" or so sag in the middle of it where there is an old closed off door, and directly above it upstairs is an old closed in window, and neither of them had any reinforcement put in.. 

I'm worried about the lifting causing problems with windows binding, and messing with the roof and where the chimney passes through it... It's going to be an adventure for sure..


----------



## HuskyBoris (Feb 14, 2013)

I think the windows will be ok,they sagged with it so they should go back up,I had to raise a beam back into place and it took a while,got it blocked up and only turned the jack about a 1/4 turn a day,sometimes a little more.I had the same problem with an old doorjamb area but I just squared up the bottom and covered the wall with sheeting,looks good enough for me.


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

This picture gives you a better idea of what kinda mess this floor was... The stairs have to come out too, but I'm waiting until last minute to do that since we sleep upstairs while we're out there working... I don't think my wife will like the ladder in the middle of the night if she needs to hit the bathroom.... We'll be widening the stairwell too... 

Oh what fun old houses are..


DSCN0242 by DC-Duo, on Flickr


----------



## littleoldlady (Feb 27, 2013)

Just getting ready to tackle a redo of an 1880's farmhouse that hasn't been lived in for awhile. Hoping to get some good advice from all of you once the project begins!


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm getting to where the best advice I can give is... Buy a dozer.. start over


----------



## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

Sometimes I feel a match would be the best tool for some remodeling...


----------

