# pigs and predators



## paddler (May 13, 2010)

i live in northern minnesota. i see wolves very routinely throughout the year and bears are very common during hte summer months. Their are also the full assortment of smaller predators (fox, fishers, martens etc). i would like to create some pastures for my pigs and run electric strands to hold them in. however, i am worried that ill lose pigs to predators. im not sure how many strands and at what heights could or would keep predators out. Does anyone have experience running pigs with electric in areas with large predators? 

In the past i have used poultry netting for my pigs. That has worked very well. i have gone out a few mornings and found the netting all pulled up and dragged back into the woods. usually i found bear hair on it. fortunately, they never come back again.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

Our predators are different than yours. Mostly coyotes, mountain lions, hawks, etc. Haven't lost any stock for many years. The dogs have worked here keeping the bad guys away. Haven't had to use electric yet.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Predators are an issue. Good fencing helps but is not enough. I would strongly recommend also having multiple livestock guardian dogs. We have a pack. It's a gang war thing. Our gang is bigger than their gang so the predators leave us and our livestock alone. When the predator's cross the line our dogs literally eat the predators. It solves the problems. The smart ones give us a wide margin.


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## paddler (May 13, 2010)

yeah, it certainly seems that having some LGDs would solve the issue. i am going into my first summer without a dog and im just not sure how much i can get away with before i start losing animals to predators. I am looking to purchase a good dog sometime soon but it wont be till next year that he does any good. thanks for the advice.


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## Kristinjo (Apr 7, 2007)

We, too, are in Northern MN and have the usual predators lurking around our livestock ( pigs, goats, chickens, cows) with the coyote being the most common. A two strand hotwire for our Berkshire and Hereford pigs has worked well for us. Yes, we do have dogs....a border collie and two labs...that make their presence known outdoors. If you look on Best Farm Buys, a lady from Makinen/Cotton area had Great Pyrs very reasonably priced.


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## FrankRichards (Dec 9, 2004)

What you can get away with also depends on what your pig herd is. We have black bears and coyotes. We've always had several brood sows with one boar. Even before we got the LGDs the bears gave them a wide berth. (One ripped the door off our chicken coop, so they are out there.)

We had one coyote attack on the pigs. Fish and game counted seven dead coyotes compared to six missing piglets. They did not come back.

We now have three Great Pyrenees, and in three years have had one weasel raid on the ducks and nothing else.


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## HardBall (Dec 23, 2010)

Believe it or not, hogs have very few enemies in the wild. Which is why they are so destructive and dominant when they turn ferral. If you are running boars and sows on pasture I would not anticipate much of an issue; however, running feeder pigs by themselves could pose a challenge.


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## TamBerk (Aug 17, 2010)

We have alot of coyotes on our farm and bears in the area but never had an attack on our hogs(sows and feeders). Coyotes are smart and know better not to attack hogs. Hogs will gang up on any attackers. Hogs main predator is man.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

There aren't many hog farms northern Michigan. Plus, most are confined. A long time ago, they raised hogs at the Prison farm near Marquette, MI. After they lost a few feeders to a bear, Warden gave the guard in the Gun Tower authorization to shoot the bear. The next day the bear came after another fresh meal and was shot. The bear was dressed out and fed to the prisoners. So, I know bear will come in close for a hot meal. Wolves will carry off a yearling lamb and often work as a pack. They will eat pork.

I know hunters use packs of dogs to chase coyotes and run bear. But around here it isn't uncommon for a treed bear to drop out of a tree and sucessfully take on a pack of dogs. As mean as a surounded coyote is, I'm sure a couple wolves would dine on dogs before heading to the stye. But don't listen to me, I'm no fan of LGD.


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## KimTN (Jan 16, 2007)

I raise the really small black hogs. I have 5 boars that weigh around 200+ and have huge tusk. We have lots of bob cats and coyotes but no piglet loss due to predation. Those boars gang up and fight. I've been out there in the middle of the night with all heck breaking loose and apparently, the hogs win every time. The sows and piglets flee while the boars charge in together. I've seen them threaten dogs and even hunters thru their fence. If someone or something they don't like comes near the fence, they all roll up the hair on their back and march back and forth chomping and making a roaring noise. I call them my boarder patrol. They do such a good job, I will always keep the big boars around to scare off unwanted visitors.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

HardBall said:


> Believe it or not, hogs have very few enemies in the wild. Which is why they are so destructive and dominant when they turn ferral. If you are running boars and sows on pasture I would not anticipate much of an issue; however, running feeder pigs by themselves could pose a challenge.


Actually, big pigs have few predators but small pigs and piglets are on the menu for most predators and scavengers. Ravens, crows, owls, hawks, eagles, fisher, lynx, fox, coyote, wolf, bear and cougar all dine on small pigs. A sow has a litter six to ten piglets in the wild yet less than one of those will grow to adulthood. This is why the wild pig population is not close to infinity. 

Our farm dogs easily kill large pigs. They have demonstrated this when a strange pig entered our valley. Normally our dogs herd and guard our hundreds of pigs. But they don't like outsiders who don't belong to our herds. They killed, gutted, split in half (wrong direction - silly dogs) and brought me the two parts of a quite large feral hog. I heard them do the kill but didn't get there in time to actually see it. Based on the tracks they did the typical monkey in the middle game that wolves do to kill large prey. They had absolutely no trouble. This implies that wolves are likely a natural predator for pigs. However, normally I suspect the predators eat the pigs when they're young, thinning the herd of the weak or unlucky.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

highlands said:


> Actually, big pigs have few predators but small pigs and piglets are on the menu for most predators and scavengers. Ravens, crows, owls, hawks, eagles, fisher, lynx, fox, coyote, wolf, bear and cougar all dine on small pigs. A sow has a litter six to ten piglets in the wild yet less than one of those will grow to adulthood. This is why the wild pig population is not close to infinity.
> 
> Our farm dogs easily kill large pigs. They have demonstrated this when a strange pig entered our valley. Normally our dogs herd and guard our hundreds of pigs. But they don't like outsiders who don't belong to our herds. They killed, gutted, split in half (wrong direction - silly dogs) and brought me the two parts of a quite large feral hog. I heard them do the kill but didn't get there in time to actually see it. Based on the tracks they did the typical monkey in the middle game that wolves do to kill large prey. They had absolutely no trouble. This implies that wolves are likely a natural predator for pigs. However, normally I suspect the predators eat the pigs when they're young, thinning the herd of the weak or unlucky.


That hog was probably an escaped farm pig or pet.
No farm dogs can easily kill a true wild hog. Many would not live through the attempt or even try.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

pancho said:


> That hog was probably an escaped farm pig or pet.
> No farm dogs can easily kill a true wild hog. Many would not live through the attempt or even try.


My 3 dogs killed a large Razor back last fall. 2 years ago they killed a large male Bob cat. They surround the prey and keep attacking in and out from three sides until they wear it down for the kill. Then the biggest dog grabs the neck to finish the fight.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

gerold said:


> My 3 dogs killed a large Razor back last fall. 2 years ago they killed a large male Bob cat. They surround the prey and keep attacking in and out from three sides until they wear it down for the kill. Then the biggest dog grabs the neck to finish the fight.


I used to have a cocker spaniel that killed several bobcats. They are very easy for a dog to kill, usually last less than one minute. Any of my other dogs will kill a bobcat before you even know what it is.

Some people think any hog not in a pen is a wild hog.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

pancho said:


> No farm dogs can easily kill a true wild hog. Many would not live through the attempt or even try.


Perhaps you know a different kind of dog. Our dogs work as a team. They cut out their prey, tire it out, cripple it and then they kill it. This is basic pack hunting technique. Pigs, even a 'true wild hog' don't have stamina. They are no match for seasoned predators. Humans hunt this way too. Or at least they did before the advent of couches and high powered rifles. It works with even the largest, meanest prey.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

highlands said:


> Perhaps you know a different kind of dog. Our dogs work as a team. They cut out their prey, tire it out, cripple it and then they kill it. This is basic pack hunting technique. Pigs, even a 'true wild hog' don't have stamina. They are no match for seasoned predators. Humans hunt this way too. Or at least they did before the advent of couches and high powered rifles. It works with even the largest, meanest prey.


Again, you are talking of tame hogs.
Wild hogs have all kinds of stamina. Much more than the farm dogs. It is sort of funny to hear a person say anything about cutting their prey out, tire it down, cripple it, then kill it when talking about a wild hog.
You should try hog hunting sometimes.
Wild hogs are more than a match for all predators except man. Farm dogs are not predators. They are domestic animals.

I have owned a single dog that could kill everyone of your farm dogs and not even breathe hard.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Feral hogs with Russian hog blood in them are fighters and runners. Far more than your usual garden variety of rooters.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I don't know how many dogs are needed, but our "Sam" has been very effective in deterring all the predators all by himself. Of course, he is wired for sound, which doesn't hurt anything. All around our property, bears, coyotes, and raccoons. Yet, we never see any of them on the cleared area of our property (Sam patrols the cleared area). Nightly, we often hear coyotes howling, but they never enter the cleared area. Sam has marked the entire perimeter, does so regularly. I wonder if other critters think there are more dogs here than just Sam (?!). We raised pigs this past year, no predator issues (fenced area with electric wire low on the inside). For three years, chickens behind a wire mesh electric fence, lost zero to predators. For 4 years, we raised rabbits, lost zero to predators (hutches inside fenced orchard). I was told by local farmers it was better to raise at least 3 feeder pigs, and wait to put them in a larger area until they were bigger (less risk of predators).


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

lorichristie said:


> I don't know how many dogs are needed, but our "Sam" has been very effective in deterring all the predators all by himself. Of course, he is wired for sound, which doesn't hurt anything. All around our property, bears, coyotes, and raccoons. Yet, we never see any of them on the cleared area of our property (Sam patrols the cleared area). Nightly, we often hear coyotes howling, but they never enter the cleared area. Sam has marked the entire perimeter, does so regularly. I wonder if other critters think there are more dogs here than just Sam (?!). We raised pigs this past year, no predator issues (fenced area with electric wire low on the inside). For three years, chickens behind a wire mesh electric fence, lost zero to predators. For 4 years, we raised rabbits, lost zero to predators (hutches inside fenced orchard). I was told by local farmers it was better to raise at least 3 feeder pigs, and wait to put them in a larger area until they were bigger (less risk of predators).


Proper fencing can be even better than a dog. A combination of both will keep just about all predators away. 
Predators are looking for something to eat. If they can find plenty to eat without taking a chance they will never bother you.
The people who have continual problems with predators are usually those who fail to give their animals adequate protection.
Predators are not just out looking for domestic animals or trying to kill all domestic animals. They are looking for a meal that they can get easily and safely. Sometimes man makes that very easy. Sometimes man makes that very difficult.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

pancho said:


> Proper fencing can be even better than a dog. A combination of both will keep just about all predators away.
> Predators are looking for something to eat. If they can find plenty to eat without taking a chance they will never bother you.
> The people who have continual problems with predators are usually those who fail to give their animals adequate protection.
> Predators are not just out looking for domestic animals or trying to kill all domestic animals. They are looking for a meal that they can get easily and safely. Sometimes man makes that very easy. Sometimes man makes that very difficult.


The more difficult predator most of our neighbors have lost their critters to are Raccoons (got in very well fenced areas to kill chickens). You are 100% right that we can make it easy or difficult. Our cleared area isn't fenced, just the areas we have had our pigs, chickens, and rabbits (orchard is fenced to keep out deer). We were recently visiting a neighbor, and admired their beautiful Golden Lab. Great companion, but absolutely worthless as a watchdog. That dog owner was scared to get out of her car when she pulled into our driveway yesterday, never having met Sam before. She sure was surpried to see him go from barking ferociously, to wagging his tail, and "grinning" once I confirmed Susan was okay for him. He is only for sounding an alarm, as we don't expect him to handle things himself.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

pancho said:


> Again, you are talking of tame hogs. ... I have owned a single dog that could kill everyone of your farm dogs and not even breathe hard.


Cute. I won't bother explaining further. Sorry about your dog.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

highlands said:


> Cute. I won't bother explaining further. Sorry about your dog.


I think you have me mixed up with another person. Nothing happened to my dog, well he died of old age.
He was a Gr. Ch. won 7 matches, was open to anything, never lost.
There isn't a farm dog that would last 3 minutes with him.
If a match wasn't at least 30 minutes he didn't even know he was in a match.
He did have one problem. He liked to eat farm dogs. Ate over half of several.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

pancho said:


> I think you have me mixed up with another person. Nothing happened to my dog, well he died of old age.
> He was a Gr. Ch. won 7 matches, was open to anything, never lost.
> There isn't a farm dog that would last 3 minutes with him.
> If a match wasn't at least 30 minutes he didn't even know he was in a match.
> He did have one problem. He liked to eat farm dogs. Ate over half of several.


Had a pit bull kill one of my older border collies. I shot it. I don't like to shoot
dogs but make an exception once in awhile.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

gerold said:


> Had a pit bull kill one of my older border collies. I shot it. I don't like to shoot
> dogs but make an exception once in awhile.


Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do.
I don't blame you one bit.


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## mwbean (Jul 29, 2015)

I believe i just had one of my pigletts that are 2 weeks old, got carried away by cyotes will keep everyone apprised.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Coyotes, foxes, ravens, cougar, bear, fisher all will predate piglets and even larger pigs. Good fencing and livestock dogs make a world of difference. Otherwise lock them in securely at night if you have strong predator pressures.

Please fill in your location information which makes it easier to answer questions. At the very least your zone. See this thread:

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/pigs/505485-please-fill-location-info.html

-Walter


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