# Too Bug Out OR To Fort Up



## Hairsheep (Aug 13, 2012)

During the most probable economic collapse, when it is likely, that law enforcement, utility companies and other forms of local Government are likely to be ineffective or not working at all, it is my contention, that staying in ones "home court" is likely ones best bet for long term survival, till law and order can be established.
How about some of your opinions on this?


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

This is one of those questions that is completely dependent on individual circumstances which includes location, your personal situation and the cause of the disaster whether natural or manmade. If you're looking at something natural like a Katrina event which renders your home unliveable you need to evacuate beforehand. 

You're touching on a subject that includes strategic relocation far in advance of a likely event. Most folks won't prep to that extent. It should be obvious that prepping in an area subject to an extreme event is questionable when the supplies may have to be abandoned. Likewise, why live in an area that may be totally devastated with a high loss of life due to a monster earthquake?

If you're only concerned about a manmade situation, you're still subject to things like 9/11. I personally believe it's only a matter of time before a nuke is detonated in the harbor of one of our cities. The recent seizure of a US ship by Venzuela is a red flag for me given the cozy relationship with Iran. Will someone go over that ship with a fine tooth comb afterwards? It wouldn't be hard to hide and shield a nuke on a ship with enough access time. The weapon could remain unknown for months or even years. A dirty bomb detonated near New York City with the right weather conditions would be devastating economically.


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## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

Well, we have nowhere to go, so we'll be holding down our fort.


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## netskyblue (Jul 25, 2012)

If I have the means to get there, we'll be going to my parents' house, as they have resources on the farm that I don't have in my little apartment. A well, horses, garden, etc. I couldn't weather TEOTWAWKI in my apartment. That's the plan for both my sisters and I - bug out to mom & dad's. Water would be a problem after 72 hours.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

I think if at all possible, forting up would be the best thing to do. I know in our case we have our animals and garden and well water, if we had to bug out we would lose those neccessities. We also have neighbors we know and trust to band together if things got bad. So in the case of an economic collapse, it's holding down the fort for us.


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## Rocktown Gal (Feb 19, 2008)

Holding down the fort for us also


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

The only option I have is to stay put.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

We plan to bug in until we just can't anymore. Then we have plans to bug out.


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## ACountryMomma (Aug 10, 2008)

Digging in. Our resources are here & we'd have no where better to go.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

unless your in a highrise in the city with a pre-stocked bug out location that your bugging out to , then bugging in is the way to go especially for those of us who live in rural America already.

try carrying 3 days food and water clothing and such , you will be carrying a lot , and only have 3 days food and water , if things have collapsed restock isn't going to look good on the road


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## ACountryMomma (Aug 10, 2008)

Pete,

The family & I were discussing this very thing just last week. If we (including two children) were somehow stranded in town during a catastrophe, say while we were on a grocery trip, depending on what town we'd gone to, we would have anywhere from 7 to 40 miles to walk home. Assuming we'd already gotten our groceries, we would not at all be able to get the whole load home, but we would do what we could and then still have from a few hours up to over 2 days walking over hill-and-dale. 

Those are the only circumstances I would have my kids away from our "fort" in a SHTF situation. If we already happened to be on the road. And it would certainly suck.


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## Vickie44 (Jul 27, 2010)

I feel well prepared at my home base . Right now I am working on how I might have to get there from work if roads are clogged and I must abandon the vehicle . 38 miles of difficult terrain , following the hi way makes me nervous , I am thinking about following close to the RR tracks although that is a more circuitous route. Ideas are welcome !


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## Sarah J (Jun 28, 2003)

Definitely bugging in, but that's my plan for nearly every Event. I'm not in a flood area (though I've been trapped by that before - we're up high enough to wait it out a week), rural Iowa so no hurricane issues, unlikely we'd get an earthquake. Homestead so we have our food and I have a hand pump well that we've tested as safe to drink (*yay*). The only real threat that I can see here is a tornado. Which won't give me enough time for a true bugout until the after-effects... IF that happens, I have another Plan.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)




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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Unless someone has a previously arranged place to go, or else it is a localized disaster and the government in still functioning well, bugging out is going to be the fatal choice for a lot of people.

If you must, then you grab what you can carry and you go. But I'm not going to try it unless there is no other option.


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## Pam6 (Apr 9, 2009)

Cabin Fever said:


>


Nice photo shopped scare tactic there! But really all I would need around here is for the 2 lane road to be blocked and we could not get out by car. 
I had to run to Walmart the other night in a town I am only familiar with the main drag and there was an accident and I did not know the best way to get around and back on the road I wanted. I ended up going to the left and there were no other roads that direction that circled back around so I had to turn around and then go to the right. I was finally able to find a way around there.
At first I thought all of the police lights were a DUI check point until I got closer and realized that people were turning. But if they made a check point at that intersection it would be very hard to get around and avoid it.

I plan on staying home until I just can't anymore. I don't know of anyone that has enough food stocked up for a family of 8 to just come live with them.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Pam6 said:


> Nice photo shopped scare tactic there!


Not photo-shopped at all (except for the words). That is an actual photo of people bugging out of Houston, TX just before Hurricane Rita was expected to hit land.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Hairsheep said:


> During the most probable economic collapse, when it is likely, that law enforcement, utility companies and other forms of local Government are likely to be ineffective or not working at all, it is my contention, that staying in ones "home court" is likely ones best bet for long term survival, till law and order can be established.
> How about some of your opinions on this?




You are expecting law and order to be established? How long are you planning on that to take?

Have you read Tom Sherry's "Deep Winter" series. To me, that is probably a fairly realistic way to think of how neighborhoods would go. Some would stay, that are ready - and others would flee and maybe get somewhere else that they think is better.

It would depend on a lot of circumstances to whether I would consider leaving or not. If a gas or something - of course, leave. Most anything that is a huge inconvience - I'd most likely stay home or with family nearby...

And as the others have said.... depends on your location and state of preparedness.


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## Hairsheep (Aug 13, 2012)

Well, i have 2 acres, geese, chickens and NOW hair sheep, i very large stocked room of canned and dried goods, 2 pump 12 gauges(100 rounds of ammo as of now), a 22 rifle(thousands of rounds) and 30-30 lever action(100 rounds as of now)...BUT, i live just outside the corporation limits of a small town, and of course, can not feed them all...Suggestions?


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Hairsheep, you should think about caching some of your food and supplies outside of your property in case you are attacked. And if things start going bad, make you house look like it's already been looted. And buy more ammo.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Hairsheep said:


> Well, i have 2 acres, geese, chickens and NOW hair sheep, i very large stocked room of canned and dried goods, 2 pump 12 gauges(100 rounds of ammo as of now), a 22 rifle(thousands of rounds) and 30-30 lever action(100 rounds as of now)...BUT, i live just outside the corporation limits of a small town, and of course, can not feed them all...Suggestions?


Do you have secure water and a permanent steady supply of it? If you don't have that then none of the rest of the above will do you much good. The same thing would apply to anyone who bugged out, they would have to go to some place where there was secure water if they wanted to survive.

.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Hairsheep said:


> Well, i have 2 acres, geese, chickens and NOW hair sheep, i very large stocked room of canned and dried goods, 2 pump 12 gauges(100 rounds of ammo as of now), a 22 rifle(thousands of rounds) and 30-30 lever action(100 rounds as of now)...BUT, i live just outside the corporation limits of a small town, and of course, can not feed them all...Suggestions?


store the feed you can , and when you can't feed them all any more start eating them or canning them

work any deals you can like eggs for hay 

and keep on keeping on


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## Hairsheep (Aug 13, 2012)

naturelover said:


> Do you have secure water and a permanent steady supply of it? If you don't have that then none of the rest of the above will do you much good. The same thing would apply to anyone who bugged out, they would have to go to some place where there was secure water if they wanted to survive.
> 
> .


I, of course have a well, so water is just 50 feet down on the property, but do have a location in mind for a possible bug out...It has a fresh spring feeding into a creek, however, the downside is its about 30 miles south of me...The main problem, seems to be convincing others around me, to invest in some form of livestock, themselves, though they readily admit this country is heading for a monetary collapse...Its discouraging.


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## Hairsheep (Aug 13, 2012)

A nice Bug Out gun for small game, IF anyone might need such: CheaperThanDirt Forum : Gun Review: Henry US Survival Rifle: Don


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## KimTN (Jan 16, 2007)

Our group has decided to die where we stand. We feel that our survival would not have very good odds if we had to leave. Everything we have built here is so that we can be self sufficient. I don't think that very many groups would want to fight us anyway. Even another military group would have to know that the casualty rate would be high and we would probably blow every thing in the end anyway. They would loose men and bullets for nothing. We feel secure that is most cases, our would be attackers would have better sense. If not, we die where we stand.


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## Pam6 (Apr 9, 2009)

Cabin Fever said:


> Not photo-shopped at all (except for the words). That is an actual photo of people bugging out of Houston, TX just before Hurricane Rita was expected to hit land.


??????? The vehicles and signs are the same in the two (right) lanes. The van the caption is on is 5 lanes to the right, then look at another white van that is over one lane down three....they match and are lined up with the original white van. 

In the left lane the white pick up to the left of the box truck is there THREE times. 

Photo shopped!


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

you may find that others around you that have land , but no live stock , would benefit tax wise if they rented you the land very cheap say 1 dollar an acre a year might save them thousands in taxes 

even if they have horses and fences already they don't get the tax break a few sheep will gain them.

we have friends that have a 15 acre parcel with their house and farm and business on it they even have about 7 acres of fenced pasture they would let someone keep animals their if they had nothing to do with them , they need to pick up and leave for work and be gone days or weeks , I just live to far away to make it work nor do i have the time 

i think there are lots of places that one could keep sheep or other animals to graze 

a place i used to work had 70 acres of hay that were as ag deal was the farmer it was let out to kept it in hay and 1 trailer of each cutting stayed their for their horses


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

We're way out in the country. The rest of our family are near or in cities. We don't plan on bugging out at all. We plan on having them come here. No way with 15 miniature goats, a flock of chickens, multiple cats and two large dogs that we could bug out. We're prepping for right here, as well as prepping to defend our property if needed.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

For us, bugging in is the only sensible thing to do. We are remote rural, food stocks well built up, hand pump beside our submersible, small livestock, etc.. Our neighborhood, such as it is, is full of livestock farms, gardens, hard working folks. We have a few neer-do-wells, but they probably wouldn't last long.

Only thing we don't have is guns. Lost them all in a freak boating accident.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

Ozarks Tom said:


> For us, bugging in is the only sensible thing to do. We are remote rural, food stocks well built up, hand pump beside our submersible, small livestock, etc.. Our neighborhood, such as it is, is full of livestock farms, gardens, hard working folks. We have a few neer-do-wells, but they probably wouldn't last long.
> 
> Only thing we don't have is guns. Lost them all in a freak boating accident.


So sorry about the loss of those guns! From what I have read online, gun sales are going through the roof again.  

We have some great neighbors and then some 'not so great' neighbors. But they all know we shoot regularly on our range out back and we're not worried that anyone would come over here and think to lift our livestock or food preparedness items without a bullet in the backside.


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

AngieM2 said:


> You are expecting law and order to be established? How long are you planning on that to take?
> 
> Have you read Tom Sherry's "Deep Winter" series. To me, that is probably a fairly realistic way to think of how neighborhoods would go. Some would stay, that are ready - and others would flee and maybe get somewhere else that they think is better.
> 
> ...


Another good read in "Lights Out" by; Halfast. (I think that is his name) Anyway it was posted on Timebomb2000 several years ago. It is set in southeast Texas and also covers part of his family having to bug out from the Waco area by way of railroad. Also how a neighbor hood banded together to survive.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

Staying put for an economic collapse. Otherwise, I'd sell now and get to where I could stay put.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

I would have to bug in. There is no where else to go. I hope the siblings and families can make it here. More people make for a better defence as long as they aren't so many that there is not enough food and food production to support them.

I have experienced blizards and the resulting traffic jams. While I had 4 wheel drive and high clearance and could get around, the other folks had cars that got stuck or froze and they just abandoned them and eventually blocked the roads. I suspect that something similar would happen in a SHTF situation. I don't think you can count on getting anywhere.

There does seem to be an epidemic of freak boating accidents happening to the people on here.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Yup, those boats are prone to capsizing when ya load all the guns to the port side!


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## bluetogreens (May 31, 2010)

Man I need to invest in dive equipment, I too and several of my friends have lost firearms, ammunition and recently I even lost an entire reloading setup straight overboard. Ya know the lake cops warn us about DUI's in boats and ski injuries etc. But when An AMERICAN has so little free time, they need to combine their hobbies like fishing AND huntin AND clay shooting, they just gotta do what they gotta do.

We are bugging in, small homestead with animals/water/pasture-still some green in winter. Decent neighbors for the most part that have lived here all their lives and have had the property handed down over multiple generations only selling a parcel when funds got tight. private road 10 feet wide and 490 yards north to south to my gated driveway, 80yds from driveway to door. Neighbor directly east has clear fire line 250+yds east, neighbor south has clear line 400yds south, 50 acres of woods separates me and neighbor to the west, who also has 100+ head of cattle. Slowly working on clearing my property to an extent ( susy and I both like "woods" and our belief is to keep atleast 1-2 acres wooded for our 2 mos old son.) continually storing food ( continually way behind as it is too easy to hit the pantry instead of go grocery shopping), learning new skills and honing old ones.


Even with my disability being a huge hindrance- we managed a sizable garden, our chickens and goats, I learned basic ammunition reloading and we both learned different canning/food preservation techniques. Susy is working on soaps and my first wheel of hard cheese is drying/aging as we speak. 
Not saying this to brag (maybe a little) but showing that if you are bugging in, you need to have a plan, not just sit on a huge food pile with a shotgun and nasty look on your face.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

No reason to bug out,unless it's Nuclear. We are NE of Reactors, the wind would be the determining factor.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

We plan to bug in, but should circumstance dictate otherwise we do have an alternative location that we could get to in day or so. If vehicles aren't running, we have bicycles with trailers and a plan to bring most if not all of our livestock with us. That is one of the advantages of the small dairy goats we raise - they are so portable.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Hairsheep said:


> During the most probable economic collapse, when it is likely, that law enforcement, utility companies and other forms of local Government are likely to be ineffective or not working at all, it is my contention, that staying in ones "home court" is likely ones best bet for long term survival, till law and order can be established.
> How about some of your opinions on this?


The only question would be "How far would have to run to get way from it?"


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

I could bug out if absolutely necessary, but I would MUCH prefer to shelter in place. With a roof over my head, a wood stove, and doors that lock, a gravity fed water system and all the preps I set aside.


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## doodlemom (Apr 4, 2006)

I'm in Ct. When there was a huge fire in Canada years ago the sky had an orange tint. The debris of the Canadian wildfire was drifting over Ct from Canada. When hurricaines blow up from Fla. we get plant diseases on the wind. Contamination can travel long distances if the conditions are right. Not to mention rivers and other currents. Stuff from Japan is just arriving on the west coast.


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

We're staying home...disabled wife...300ft deep well,animals,generators,closest neighbor .5m,did I mention extremely trigger happy disabled wife...and as long as I have 1/2 hr window,I will have 2 trac/trls with full 300gal tanks.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Pam6 said:


> ??????? The vehicles and signs are the same in the two (right) lanes. The van the caption is on is 5 lanes to the right, then look at another white van that is over one lane down three....they match and are lined up with the original white van.
> 
> In the left lane the white pick up to the left of the box truck is there THREE times.
> 
> Photo shopped!




My cousin was stuck in that mess. What you are taking for white vans with identical marking on the rear look like the back of RV's to me. There were pictures all over the news of the traffic jams.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Everyone with wells needs to make sure they can still access the water without electricity. We are looking into a solar well pump. Our well is 300 ft deep with water starting at 125ft. Hard to get with out electric help. We have almost 1100gal stored just to be sure.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Bug out early, or don't do it at all... I mean you'd need to BO at the drop of a hat, and be willing to be wrong wrong wrong way too many times. If one waited till it was obvious, you'd never get there, unless it's in bicycle distance... if it took hours normally, it might take days once the Horde is on the road. AND, once you get to your BOL, unless it's already occupied by someone, odds are it's going to be occupied by someone else... trust me, all the locals know about your BOL... 

So, no way I could move my gear elsewhere... it'd take a dozen flatbed 18wheelers, and a week to load... so, we're bugging in. 

I'd rather die on homeground than die on the Road.

I've seen the Golden Horde on the move before... luckily I knew the backroads home... time I got back from only 30 miles away, they'd stripped our two grocery stores bare, no fuel, no food, no ice...


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Pam6 said:


> ??????? The vehicles and signs are the same in the two (right) lanes. The van the caption is on is 5 lanes to the right, then look at another white van that is over one lane down three....they match and are lined up with the original white van.
> 
> In the left lane the white pick up to the left of the box truck is there THREE times.
> 
> Photo shopped!


Whether photo-shopped or not, the point is that during a SHTF scenario the freeways leading out of major metro areas will become parking lots filled with vehicles. If I lived in a metro area, I would think twice about bugging out for that reason.

We have relatives who live in Houston. They sat in their car for two days on the interstate during the Rita evacuation. They ran out of gas, used the median as a bathroom, and had to keep their windows rolled up because of desparate people wondering up and down the freeway asking people for food, water and gas. It was a horror story for them.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

I think that the folks that frequent S&EP are always looking for ways to make their homes a fortress of sorts in the event that society falls apart.


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## gracie88 (May 29, 2007)

> That is one of the advantages of the small dairy goats we raise - they are so portable.


And there's a lot of goat feed in them thar hills  I think goats would be one of the easiest varieties of stock to forage for feed around here, especially if you had to do it on the move.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

We'll be staying here. Everyone I've listened too says they are running to the mountains or lake. We'll stay here in the "flat" part of the desert. There is only one very small spring. No other surface water for almost 60 miles unless we are getting a heavy downpour, but even that wont last more than a day.

There are stock tanks that have solar wells, but since they don't "stick out" like windmills they will be difficult for people to find if they don't know about them. My boss has 2 just a few miles from my house.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Cabin Fever said:


> Not photo-shopped at all (except for the words). That is an actual photo of people bugging out of Houston, TX just before Hurricane Rita was expected to hit land.


I remember seeing lines like that when Katrina hit. Gets pretty packed.


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## bluetogreens (May 31, 2010)

texican said:


> Bug out early, or don't do it at all... I mean you'd need to BO at the drop of a hat, and be willing to be wrong wrong wrong way too many times. If one waited till it was obvious, you'd never get there, unless it's in bicycle distance... if it took hours normally, it might take days once the Horde is on the road. AND, once you get to your BOL, unless it's already occupied by someone, odds are it's going to be occupied by someone else... trust me, all the locals know about your BOL...
> 
> So, no way I could move my gear elsewhere... it'd take a dozen flatbed 18wheelers, and a week to load... so, we're bugging in.
> 
> ...


See our if necessary bug out plan is focused more around the "waves" after a disaster. You see the preamble getting out before/during the "event" then there is a lull then there is the looting/general rioting, then there is a lull etc etc. 

where we are, i imagine swarm 1 of locust fleeing will be pretty much ignored and ignore everything on their way to whereever it is they think they are going. I am too close to the city to be a "destination" and too far to be caught in initial turmoil. its the second wave that is actually the first wave of concern, these are your mall ninja's, your raiders, your they would of done evil no matter what crowd. They will be thinned out in the city, but start canvasing suburbia then rural suburbia slowly as they get thinned out/reform etc. this in my opinion is going to be the most violent period. We are talking days 7-30 without law. I think somewhere around day 45+ those that have survived but not "prepped" will start looking for food/answers etc- they very well may be hungry/desperate, and organized/armed. but they won't be killing for sport etc like those in wave 2, they may be more willing to work for a meal, or fall in line and be led by someone who is prepared to handle them. 

Strangely, I have a sense that after 90-120 days, once the rif raff is killed off- as long as there is not an "overlord force" like in a wartiem siege situation- human nature will take back over and people will want to be led/herded/return to a normal society structure.


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## backwoods (Sep 12, 2004)

Never, ever, become a "refugee" if you can help it. They never fare well. However, I live in a very rural area, of very self sufficient, farming folks. Most didn't have electricity before 20 yrs ago, and everybody still has woodstoves. I can't tell you what I'd do if I lived in a city or urban area, except MOVE. Which is exactly what we did.


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## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

Since my kids and their families are planning on bugging out to our house quess we better be home. In all seriousness Im staying put unless we face a nuke event or a forest fire. Then Im heading out, and only then. 

We are in a rural area which provides wood for heat, our garden, the ability to raise some livestock and hunting - national forest all around us. Most of our neighbors garden have guns and heat with wood. We would ban together for security and community [help if needed ] Strenght in numbers whom I know is far better than hitting the road to the unknown. Frankly I dont see the Golden Horde lasting through a winter. I see them heading south where it stays warm. January in a Michigan winter can be brutal without utuilities, even deadly. I dont see the horde stoking woodstoves toting wood shoveling snow ect... So if we can make it through till it gets cold security should become a whole lot easier. I believe only the hardy who are familuar with "roughing it " in the winter will stay. Being cold is a great motivator for moving south. 

Now if I lived in a large city Id be thinkng real hard about how I could get a bug out retreat in the boonies. Even if I only could get a acre Id do it and put in a stab well and get a cheap camper and build a woodstove or get a cheap used one. Shelter heat water taken care of - you could even get some small livestock and garden on an acre. Around here you can get an acre or two for $1,000. That would be my plan.


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## Hairsheep (Aug 13, 2012)

gracie88 said:


> And there's a lot of goat feed in them thar hills  I think goats would be one of the easiest varieties of stock to forage for feed around here, especially if you had to do it on the move.


Actually, thats why i opted for Hair Sheep("easiest varieties of stock"), beacuse they will gain size quicker than a goat on the same browse that goats would.
Are more naturally parasite resistant and seem so far to be more genetically capable to over come or resist diseases.


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## Hairsheep (Aug 13, 2012)

janetn;6135564)Frankly I dont see the Golden Horde lasting through a winter. I see them heading south where it stays warm. January in a Michigan winter can be brutal without utuilities said:


> I can agree with this whole heartedly...If this should happen in Nov-Jan, I would have absolutely no concerns about bugging out at all...When the lawless, with no concern but for themselves begin to kill among themselves, and by the time they finish in the nearest big city to me(16 miles away), I doubt they will make it my way, before freezing to death(we had many days in the teens last year, and quite a few below zero at night).


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## Hairsheep (Aug 13, 2012)

Do any of you, feel discouraged that more people do not prep for what many agree is coming?
I have had many agree with me that an economic collapse is coming, yet they just rely upon a few stocked can goods and some do not even own a gun nor have any plans to purchase such.
I even know of some with a wife and children at home.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Yes, it does bug me. I have several friends who live on McDonalds, daily trips to the store for TV dinners, or food stamps (not needed in one case). They complain about how bad things are getting as they get near foreclosure on their houses or lose their jobs, or see the cost of gas go up so high they can't pay their bills. And yet they don't change anything to give their family some security. One of them knows I have "some" food, but it aggravates me because I'll feel obligated to help them (at first) if something bad happens.

But, all I can do is make sure my own family is well provided for, encourage them to stock up on food, and hope that nothing dire ever happens.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

Hairsheep said:


> Actually, thats why i opted for Hair Sheep("easiest varieties of stock"), beacuse they will gain size quicker than a goat on the same browse that goats would.
> Are more naturally parasite resistant and seem so far to be more genetically capable to over come or resist diseases.


Where i live goats do much better on the forage here then sheep do. but you could do sheep as well, youd just have to cover more ground. 

I thought Id point out though, that even poor or average milk goats produce more milk then the best milking breeds of sheep. and hair sheep arent known for lots of milk among sheep. So I could travel around with a small herd if need be and without having to wait for anything to mature or months for babies I could have lots of calories since I have milk goats in keep in milk. 

I have no idea how many babies sheep have, but my nigerians came from lines that usually have 3-4 at a time and can breed any time of the year. Like I said, I dont know if sheep have lots of babies also, or if they are seasonal breeders like most breeds of goats but you can increase a herd pretty fast. 

Pretty sure your right on disease, if not its definitely true on parasites/worms and the like. Although if you were traveling with them it probably wouldnt become to much of an issue. Im in a dry area so its not much an issue anyway here. 

Im not faulting your logic here, just offering up an alternative. 

Dont you still have to shear hair sheep? I asked about them in the sheep section here one time and was told you do.


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## nadja (May 22, 2011)

Will you survive in your home in the city ? 
I have seen a lot of people over the last couple of years both here and on a few other sites that think they will be able to survive after the s...t hits the fan in their homes in the cities. I have given this a lot of thought and my answer would be NO. First , you would have to survive the angry looter phase, which the largest part would be from a couple of days to a couple of months. 
Then you would have he tougher and more careful scroungers going from building to building looking for anything that they could use. 
So you have a larger then most back yard and you think that by planting a garden , it would provide you with enough food to keep you and your family going over the long winter months. Not possible. You can not grow enough food to provide for a family of say 4 in a city back yard to keep you going. 
Even if you have a very large back yard, it would most likely fall prey to :"scroungers:" Keep in mind , that even if you have a two year supply of food stored, you would give yourself and your food away when you start cooking it. If you went outside, sooner or later, you would be spotted by someone else.

Water in the city afterwords would be a major concern.

Sewage would be yet another major concern

By any realistic standards , anything less then two fertile cleared acres would be a waste of your time and resources. Do you living in the city have two plus acres of good fertile land to plant and tend ? Not likely. If your one of the even less fortunate ones living in an apartment building, even less of a chance. 

To survive a long term whatever, you need good fertile land, all year source of good clean drinking water and irrigation water, and method of sewage disposable. 
\
So , all you people living in the city, give a lot of thoughts to your current plans to wait it out in the cities.


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## Wintersong Farm (Aug 22, 2007)

The worst position to be in during a crisis is that of a refugee.


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## Hairsheep (Aug 13, 2012)

silverseeds said:


> Where i live goats do much better on the forage here then sheep do. but you could do sheep as well, youd just have to cover more ground.
> 
> I thought Id point out though, that even poor or average milk goats produce more milk then the best milking breeds of sheep. and hair sheep arent known for lots of milk among sheep. So I could travel around with a small herd if need be and without having to wait for anything to mature or months for babies I could have lots of calories since I have milk goats in keep in milk.
> 
> ...



Hair Sheep require no shearing, and Katahdins have been noted to give 5 liters of milk a day.
My Hair Sheep eat much like a goat...they love the weeds 
They produce usually the first time a single lamb, but afterwards can produce 2-4 lambs.
They have the same gestation period as goats, however gain size much quicker(my sheep weigh about 50 pounds in 4 months)and can be butchered as old as 5 years old without the "mutton" taste, since they have no wool.
Since, most folks have bred these for disease resistance(no worries about scrapie) and parasite resistance(some never worm them), I believe they are more ideal for a survival situation.


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## peri_simmons (Apr 9, 2005)

Cool about hair sheep!! I sure would like to trade honey for a couple of yours!

I am in Ohio too. Before we have to bug out:catfight:


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## Hairsheep (Aug 13, 2012)

peri_simmons said:


> Cool about hair sheep!! I sure would like to trade honey for a couple of yours!
> 
> I am in Ohio too. Before we have to bug out:catfight:


It will be awhile before I will be able to sell or trade them, as I am sheep poor at the moment.
Now come next fall, that will all change.
I paid $100 each for my Katahdin rams(i bought 3, and the runt of the three will be culled) and $195 each for the 6 ewes.
These came from flocks that were never vaccinated nor wormed, thus they have a much higher disease/worm resistance than normal sheep.
As things are not looking to well, at this time, I doubt you should wait, as we have just went over 16 trillion dollars in debt and QE 3 is NOW underway, with the Fed saying they need unlimited printing powers.
I am sure, there will be others whom has some for sale, yet...but I think you should hurry.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

Must be a lot of guns on the bottom of the lakes and rivers. I have lost some that way too, canoe tipping over. You would think after the third time I would learn.


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