# Need Kneading advice :)



## suelandress (May 10, 2002)

I'm fairly new to baking with yeast dough. Today, I made cinnamon buns. They're tasty enough, but the dough isn't as "fluffy" or soft, as I would like.
Do I need to knead more, or less, to get the softness?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

suelandress said:


> I'm fairly new to baking with yeast dough. Today, I made cinnamon buns. They're tasty enough, but the dough isn't as "fluffy" or soft, as I would like.
> Do I need to knead more, or less, to get the softness?


It sounds to me like your dough may have been just a bit dry. Perhaps just a teaspoon more water would have made a difference. You will get the hang of it, moisture content is tricky, its a "feel" thing more than perfectly measured amounts. Just to be safe, you prolly should send me some of those buns so I can check them out properly.


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## suelandress (May 10, 2002)

LOL. You'll have to fight my hubby for them. He's not as picky 

Now, how do I keep a moister dough from sucking up the flour on the counter as I knead?


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## upnorthlady (Oct 16, 2009)

I have found for cinnamon rolls, or any kind of sweet roll, you don't want to work the dough as much as you would for a regular loaf of bread. The more you knead, the more gluten you release and your bread will have a firmer texture. If your cinnamon rolls aren't 'fluffy' enough, I agree that you might have had a dry dough. A wet dough doesn't mean it sticks to everything, just that it will remain a little tacky. Just follow the guidelines of your recipe, but don't add too much more flour. For sweet rolls, I usually only knead the dough for about 4 minutes. Also, adding an egg, or milk to your sweet roll dough will make it softer. I usually add eggs, milk, butter and a tsp of vanilla extract (I use Mexican vanilla) to my cinnamon roll dough.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

suelandress said:


> LOL. You'll have to fight my hubby for them. He's not as picky
> 
> Now, how do I keep a moister dough from sucking up the flour on the counter as I knead?


It will suck up a little of your flour but sprinkle just enough to keep it from sticking to the board. Also as upnorthlady mentioned, dont overdo the kneading. Thats never a problem for me as I am just plain lazy and am not going to overwork myself! LOL Again, how much kneading is a matter of feel. Your dough should be well blended, and have a nice elastic feel to it when its ready. There is a certain amount of science involved in yeast bread making, but there is also a lot of art to it!


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## suelandress (May 10, 2002)

Is it possible I blew it by using bread flour? The recipe did have egg, milk, butter....
(
BTW, my all purpose flour and bread flour have the same ingredients (!!!???)


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

for the kind of bread I like.......soft, light and fluffy.....I have found the less kneading the better. I only knead my bread recipe enough to barely work in enough whole wheat flour that I can shape it. sometimes there are even a few "clumps" of whole wheat flour left in and I don't mind a bit!

the diff between bread and reg flour is the blend of wheat. different strains of wheat have differing amounts of gluten. so they will all say "wheat". it is about the _kind _of wheat. sometimes there are additives.


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## suelandress (May 10, 2002)

I don't think I over kneaded. The recipe said 7-8 minutes and I pooped out before that


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## okiemomof3 (Jan 11, 2010)

i never knead with flour, i always knead with oil. this way your dough stays nice and moist and you aren't uncessary flour.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

okiemomof3 said:


> i never knead with flour, i always knead with oil. this way your dough stays nice and moist and you aren't uncessary flour.


For soft breads, yes!


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## suelandress (May 10, 2002)

Do you roll out the dough with oil too?


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## okiemomof3 (Jan 11, 2010)

yes i sure do. i bake all my breads, sandwich breads, pizza crusts, rolls, etc. i never buy store bought. i do it all with oil, just a tad is all you need. i do work with fresh milled whole wheat flour. 

i don't mean that my counter is all slippery and slick because that would never work  i take my oil and drizzle ohhhhhhh about a tsp maybe and i run my hands and spread it out then i get my dough out of my Bosch and i knead and slap it around and shape my loaves. usually, for my three loave dough batch, i make two loaves of bread and one of cinnamon rolls. so i shape my loaves first and then, i roll out my dough for cinnamon rolls. by this time, there is no "oil" on the counter that you can see, it actually looks dull looking but the dough does not stick at all.


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## suelandress (May 10, 2002)

I'll give that a try, thanks


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## Marcia in MT (May 11, 2002)

suelandress said:


> Is it possible I blew it by using bread flour? The recipe did have egg, milk, butter....
> (
> BTW, my all purpose flour and bread flour have the same ingredients (!!!???)


Bread flour has more protein (i.e., more gluten) than regular flour. Check the bags for the nutrition panel, and compare protein content. You wouldn't think that 1% makes that much difference, but it sure does! So use the bread flour for breads, and regular flour for rolls and such.

As others have said, less flour and less kneading help keep the product soft. I have also found that adding mashed potato flakes to the dough really helps, as the potato is hygrophilic (it holds water). I use them in all my yeast recipes, and even add it to box cake mix. Doesn't take much -- about 3/4 cup for 6 - 8 cups of flour. They're nasty as food, but dynamite as a dough additive!


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

Marcia in MT said:


> They're nasty as food, but dynamite as a dough additive!


Don't be dissing my comfort food; instant mashed potatoes were the best dish my mother served! (Actually, she made a great turkey but otherwise was lost in the kitchen; whenever I went to visit her, she had me make "real rice" because all she could master was the minute stuff!) However, you might be onto something adding these precious flakes to dough; that gives me a reason to buy some after years of denying myself a simple pleasure. Thanks!


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## Marcia in MT (May 11, 2002)

katydidagain said:


> Don't be dissing my comfort food; instant mashed potatoes were the best dish my mother served! However, you might be onto something adding these precious flakes to dough; that gives me a reason to buy some after years of denying myself a simple pleasure. Thanks!


Sorry, didn't mean to diss your comfort food!! Our family has never liked them, that's all.

And adding them to dough really does make a difference; think of all the recipes that call for mashed potatoes or potato water. The flakes are a real convenience. 

Hope you are enjoying them!


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## suelandress (May 10, 2002)

Just popping back in to *thank you all* for your advice. It's been near a month now, and I am getting better (and fatter  )


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

okiemomof3 said:


> yes i sure do. i bake all my breads, sandwich breads, pizza crusts, rolls, etc. i never buy store bought. i do it all with oil, just a tad is all you need. i do work with fresh milled whole wheat flour.
> 
> i don't mean that my counter is all slippery and slick because that would never work  i take my oil and drizzle ohhhhhhh about a tsp maybe and i run my hands and spread it out then i get my dough out of my Bosch and i knead and slap it around and shape my loaves. usually, for my three loave dough batch, i make two loaves of bread and one of cinnamon rolls. so i shape my loaves first and then, i roll out my dough for cinnamon rolls. by this time, there is no "oil" on the counter that you can see, it actually looks dull looking but the dough does not stick at all.


Amazing what one can learn here. I've never heard of kneading w/ oil. Thanks for sharing that!


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## Horseyrider (Aug 8, 2010)

I use both flour and oil for working dough, depending on the recipe and type of flour. For really soft floopy goopy doughs like sweet white breads, it helps a ton to use a bench knife. It's also called a dough scraper. It's kind of like a spatula without a handle, and it makes it a lot handier to scoop up soft dough (or crumbly dough, for that matter) for working. They're very handy little things.


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## Yldrosie (Jan 28, 2006)

I love this board! What an education.


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## CJ (May 10, 2002)

Well... I use a stand mixer or my bread machine to do my kneading, but any handling and shaping of the dough, I do on a wet counter with wet hands, no flour.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Txsteader said:


> Amazing what one can learn here. I've never heard of kneading w/ oil. Thanks for sharing that!


I hadn't either, but plan on trying it. Does this work with sourdough bread too?


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