# HELP! Sick goat! Polio?



## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

What the heck is this?????? Do you think it could be listeriosis or polio? I'm thinking polio but I'm not sure.

All goats were fine up until Monday. Keep in mind here that on Sun, Mon and Tues we dewormed all the goats with Safeguard. This was the recommended medicine by the vet (in accordance with their recommended wormer rotation). 

On the Tuesday morning (which of course was after the second dose of wormer), all goats seemed fine. Come Tuesday afternoon, I happened to notice Tinkerbell, my Nigie doe, acting pretty quiet, just standing there. I figured not a big deal, she's just relaxing. That evening, during feeding time, she was definitely NOT ok. Stargazing, weaving, disinterested in feeding, quivering. I immediately freaked and pulled her from the herd, and quarantined her. 

So now she's in a pen well away from the others. I gave her a good going over and here's all I can confirm: pooping normally, normal temperature, normal mouth and eyelid colours. No lumps or bumps. No typical CL or CAE symtoms.

At first she was not moving much, standing more than normal, face in the corner, faint quivering, not wanting to walk. Eating very slowly as if it were difficult and not wanting much water. 

Now at Day 3, she is eating more quickly, like she's regaining some interest, and drinking like crazy (well, compared to yesterday). Definitely acting more aware of surroundings. I hate to get too optimistic but she does seem to be a little improved.

Here is my theory (which is probably wrong, which is why I'm asking you guys for advice!): the wormer messed up my doe's rumen activity and caused the polio. She has a LOT of the polio symptoms. 

I had started her on a regimen of thiamine and was also intubating her with probiotic every 6 hours, and also some water as she wasn't hardly drinking. She is also getting penicillin (for listeriosis that masks as polio) as a precaution. Hand feeding her small amounts of regular feed---which she initially didn't go for but by day 2 did.

The odd thing is that Safeguard is not supposed to be one of the wormers that is listed that could cause rumen disruption. But isn't it odd that it happened at the same time? There was no change in food, water, grain, nothing else that I can think of that changed. What do you think? Did it compromise her system? 

I'm just thankful that all my other goats are ok.......so far. It has me so creeped out, I've been watching them so closely now. I'm just hoping it isn't something contagious; I didn't sleep well the last couple of nights....what happens if I have to cull ALL my goats and give up goats totally? Arghhhhhh....

Now it's just a waiting game. I hope she pulls through, but I'm not certain that there will not be permanent damage from it. It is a good sign that she is improving but how much better she will get is uncertain. From what I can gather, it's generally a 3 day thing, then they either start to recover or go downhill.  I hope I don't have to put her down after it all.

And she was one of my favourite goats, too, darn it. 

Any advice appreciated!


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

Oh, I forgot to mention, she is now eating feed on her own (usual mix of alf pellets and very small portion of manna), nibbling on hay, and drinking water on her own from a pan.


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## oberhaslikid (May 13, 2002)

When my little doeling did this she stopped eating and walked as if she was drunk.Then I noticed she couldnt see and was walking into things.I gave high doses of B1 and Probios.Wormed her and gave Nutra drench for her appitite.By the third day she was eating and wanting back with the herd.I kept her away from them for a week.She started to act normal and I returned her to the herd but still gave B1.You would never know she was the same goat.


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

So, you think it was polio also? The thiamine is B1 vitamin. 

From the sites I'm reading, I should keep up with the B1 for at least 24 hours after she appears normal (assuming she will get to that point). How long did you give it for?

Right now, she seems content to stay segregated, isn't calling for her buddies, and I certainly am not about to put her with them until she is better and I'm convinced she is not contagious.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

What dosages did you use on the safeguard.

Some of the crazy 4 or 5 times the dosages for horses given for 3 or 4 days could easily cause these problems.

It's not the drug that causes the problem it is the amount of carrier (oils) put into a rumen. Goats only make B1/Thiamin in a healthy rumen, without b1 you get the symptoms you are seeing. Vicki


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

Vicki, I don't have the bottle anymore, it was thrown out, but it may still be in the garbage bin in the garage, I'll have a look for it later. 

The tech said something along the lines of, "be sure to not underdose, it's better to go a bit over" so I hope that didn't mean that she did the dosages a little over. It was prescribed according to goat weight, and all goats (well, except the nubians) were weighed by hand here. The nubians were estimated with a tape.


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

Ok, I found the bottle! It said 1mL (1cc) Safeguard for every 10lbs.

She has once again improved a little bit. She is more active in moving around and seems to be even more steady on her feet. She let out a little bleat when she saw me coming. Was even interested enough to start poking her nose through the wire and try to snag some of the nearby grass. 

She still seems to be a little off in her vision---on the first day, she didn't seem to watch anything, or maybe she was just disinterested in anything. I can't seem to place it, she does see things, I see her turn her head to watch small movements, but she has this weird head tilt when she looks around sometimes. I wonder if she only has partial vision?


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I lost a wether 2 summers ago to listeriosis. Before he died his head twisted with the left ear down. I believe I lost him because I stopped the Pen G too soon.


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## goatkid (Nov 20, 2005)

It takes them a bit of time to get their vision back. Keep giving the thiamin till a few days after she's 100% back to health.


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## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

It would seem a weird coincidence to not link the worming with your goat's symptoms. I always give 4X dose when doing SG, but I only do this one day and a followup dose 10-14 days later. SG is touted for being very easily tolerated, but no chemical is 100% harmless in every individual. You might have one that just was sensitive to the 3 day course. That IS a lot of medicine to put into a goat's system and I bet she simply reacted to it negatively.
Whenever my goats are off, then when I first see them start to drink a lot of water, this is usually my sign they are starting on the road to recovery. I'm guessing your goat will continue to improve.


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## mulemama (Mar 30, 2008)

dixydoodle, i don't use safeguard. my vet used zymectrine but i don't know what dose he used. i use cydectin 2.5cc by mouth one dose per goat. thiamine is a good idea. i lost one wether due to thiamine deficinency. tanya


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

Well, she seems to be a tiny bit better once again.....I hate to get too optimistic, but she is also sometimes calling to the other goats quietly. One thing I do note though: she doesn't seem to lay down much. She is also quivering slightly sometimes. She doesn't have any swelling on her legs (joints) or anything like that though. Still eating well although she is thinner from the few first days where she didn't hardly eat. Drinking water like crazy.

Still think it's polio, or do the above symptoms bring anything else to mind that I may be missing?

fishhead, penicillin directions say give it up to 5 days total. What do you do after that (it's ProPen)?


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## goatkid (Nov 20, 2005)

Since she is better after giving thiamin, it sounds like polio to me. Polio is not contagious and she would be less stressed with a buddy. Keep up the thiamin and if you have any banamine, that would help because it reduces the swelling in the brain caused by polio. You can only do Banamine 3 days and the dose is 1cc IM per 100 pounds.


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

goatkid, well I am giving her the thiamine and penicillin, I don't know if I would want to chance the banamine on top of it as she is doing quite well now. She has went back to looking around normally, calling to me and the other goats, and is eating and drinking well. A little slower on her feet still, but not so unsure as not being able to try and scamper away when I come at her with the needle in hand. LOL She knows the routine too good now, I think.

So what does everyone think about this polio? Obviously, I should avoid the Safeguard in the future with her! She never had a reaction to the Ivomec last time around, which was weird because from what I understand, ivermectin can cause a reaction as well? A local goat owner here also said he had an occasional bout with polio with one or two goats, so I guess it's not uncommon. 

For now I'm keeping her alone....partially because I still want to be sure it's not something contagious (I'm paranoid! LOL) and also because this way she gets a good portion of the food (alf pellets and small usual grain amount, plus hay) as she is still catching up to her normal weight, she is still pretty thin. With feeding the other goats all together, it's "grab the good stuff while you can" and she would likely not get much of it. They only get so much of that grain/alf and the rest is in hay.


> Whenever my goats are off, then when I first see them start to drink a lot of water, this is usually my sign they are starting on the road to recovery.


Interesting you say this, I started out by having to syringe feed my doe water, but on I think on the third day, she suddenly slurped back a good half bowl (maybe 8 cups) of water within a half day. That was also around the time she seemed to perk up in other ways.

I really appreciate all the good advice I've been given from everyone here, I was so worried about losing her. She's one of my favourites,  I'm just grateful it's something she can recover from. 

Do you think she will have any lasting effects from it though? Do you think she might also be suceptible to other drugs, then?

Thanks again!


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

DixyDoodle said:


> fishhead, penicillin directions say give it up to 5 days total. What do you do after that (it's ProPen)?


Sorry for the delayed response.

My vet said 5 days of PenG minimum even if symptoms disappear sooner. And at least 1 day AFTER all symptoms are gone. That's to make sure she doesn't relapse. You can give for up to 10 days.

Good luck! I hope she makes it.

Drinking is good because urine flushes the toxins from dying bacteria out of the body. I've seen a vet give a sick cow IV saline along with antibiotics. The saline was to get the cow to drink more water so that it would flush the toxins from dead bacteria out of the body in urine.


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

I'm not sure what the difference is between PenG and the ProPen we're using, but I suspect it's close, the directions sound similar.

When I went out this morning, she was literally HOLLERING non-stop for attention until she got fed! Looks like she's almost back to normal, except for being a bit thin, but even this morning, she has definitely filled out more. I'm so glad she's pulling through. I can't get over how poor she looked, and how fast she has bounced back.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

DixyDoodle said:


> I'm not sure what the difference is between PenG and the ProPen we're using, but I suspect it's close, the directions sound similar.
> 
> When I went out this morning, she was literally HOLLERING non-stop for attention until she got fed! Looks like she's almost back to normal, except for being a bit thin, but even this morning, she has definitely filled out more. I'm so glad she's pulling through. I can't get over how poor she looked, and how fast she has bounced back.


That's good news! I think an empty rumen makes them look skinny fast. Have you been giving her probios?


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

> Have you been giving her probios?


Yes, I started that right away at the same time as the lecithin (B1).


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