# Food Stores or Food Storage (think root cellar)



## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

This is something my DH and I have been going back and forth on for quite some time. To the point that it is hindering our moving forward with additional food stores.

I say ... Buy Food ... Buy it NOW ... before prices get much higher and/or food becomes more scarce.

He says ... Build underground food storage (i.e. root cellar) ... What's the sense in having food if it can all blow away in a tornado (we live in a mobile home).

My point being ... most tornadoes in our "general" area come from the south west ... usually following the flatter lands. We live on the North West side of a pretty big hill. No tornado has come anywhere NEAR where we live. 

IMO I'd rather have food and take the very very slim chance a tornado will get it then not have food because we decided we needed "underground storage" for it! What's the sense in having finally finished an underground storage area if we then can't afford to buy food to put in it?

Anyone have any input on how we might be able to resolve this "dillema" we seem to be having? I've tried to think of a way to compromise but I'm just drawing a blank. 

A root cellar/storm shelter would cost us a couple thousand dollars easy and I just can't see spending that much money right now. Not to mention that we'd have to "hire" someone to do it since we're not home long enough to do it ourselves, etc., etc., etc.


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## Space Cowboy (Apr 26, 2008)

Is there a rental storage area nearby? If you can find one that's made of concrete block, why not rent a storage locker until you can afford your own?

Good luck!

SC


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## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

SC,

The closest "storage" units are 20 miles from us and they are build of sheet metal.  We live pretty far out, as far as small/medium towns go. (Personally I like it that way!) So renting "storage" is really not all that feasable.

CN


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

Compromise. 

Spend 1/2, 2/3, 3/4 on food right now and set the rest aside to build underground storage.

Or how about this? Instead of building a huge root cellar why not start out with something smaller, like a truck tool box buried underground? You could load it up, padlock it and then bury it.

Just trying to find a happy medium so that both of you eventually get all that you want.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Are you two gardeners? 

A properly designed root cellar can ALSO be used to store roots, and give you storage room for your potatos and squash. This will save you money every winter. Not a lot, no, as potatos are not expensive but some!


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

How much space do you want or need? 
What type structure were you looking at that it would cost a couple thousand dollars?
How is your property layed out? Flat, small hills?


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## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

Currently we are both truck drivers (teaming) so we don't really garden, although I have done a couple of "test" gardens to see what will grow without us being there. First year was "okay" and last year bit the big one (too many bugs). So while we don't currently "garden" it is something that I've been studying (i.e. companion planting, organic bug control, etc) it's not something that we actively do (atm).

As far as the "size" of the "unit" ... he's wanting 20x40 (just in case we have to live there!) lol DH is of the opinion "bigger is better" ... 

We live in an area of very rocky soil/shale and would have to hire dozer work to be done in order to dig the hole ... not to mention the property is a downhill slope from the first acre to the third. We currently have our home on the center acre. 

It's mostly wooded with a large portion of the top acre cleared for parking our rigs and a driveway that goes down the middle of the second acre to our home. Heck, at this point we can't even agree on where to put it if we DO put one in.

Clearing the trees and having the dirt work done will be the largest portion of the cost (IMO) then have to hire someone to actually "build" the unit, then cover it back up.

Time is our biggest issue. Since we're on the road so much, we don't have the "time" to do this ourselves. If we did, it wouldn't really be an issue, as we could rent a front loader/back hoe and clear/complete dirt work in a weekend.

I don't know ... I just feel like we're running out of time and we need food the most. There are any number of people we would be anticipating arriving at our home if things got really bad (family members mostly). There are just so many things we want to accomplish and I feel like we're running out of time to do it.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Calm that running out of time thought. It's a killer. Compromise - build something less and that you can do on your own while you are home and spend the rest on food. Build bigger when/as you need it. Or perhaps build in a way that it can easily be built onto? A slope might be exactly right. If I had a slope, I have a cellar built back into the hillside.


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

Since you are expecting family if something were to happen, is there someone who would help in doing the work so you could save on hireing help. They should be willing to help out if they will reap the benefit of the place.

Also you could still start stocking up by buying a little bit at a time. Like beans and rice. It may not taste real good but will keep you alive. Then add to it a little at a time as you can. That way you can acomplish both things at the same time. Buy stuff on sale as you find it.

Also another way you can acomplish it is, if you eat all your meals at truck stops, that can get very expensive. I know first hand, been there done that. Get you the twelve volt cooking appliances and fridge. That way you can cook your meals from your truck. You will also eat healthier that way.


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

Your husband sounds like mine, always thinking bigger is better. He always goes overboard when he does things. That's one reason things don't get done as much as I would like.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Maybe you could start small by burying some items (good idea F-Up). You may not be able to build the live in shelter now, but you could get some food strored in the meantime.


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2011)

Being in Arkansas, I can certainly understand his concern for Tornadoes. According to you, your specific location "shelters" from such. That is a good thing. 

1st thing's 1st..... pretend you just came into some $$$. IF IF IF you could afford it... agree on WHERE you would put it.

Now, set that area aside and make NO plans of doing anything there.

2nd... Consider Perennial gardening 1st. Fruit Orchard trees? Blueberry bushes? strawberries and asparagus? (I'm live in the North, so I don't really know what plants work well there) Just DON'T do ANY Perennial plantings where your fantasy root cellar will be.

3rd... If IF IF you got the space in a garage or outbuilding or something.... start STOCKPILING NOW! 

Just the 1st thoughts that come to mind....


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## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

Ruby, that's our "biggest" problem. He wants underground storage (huge) .. I want to concentrate on food ... He wants food storage for 20+ ... I want food storage for "us" +4-6 ... 

We've already "started' our food storage but I want to "ramp it up" a bit. I'm not so concerned about "burying" it ... that's not really what the shelter is for, so much as "storing" it out of the house in case of a hypothetical tornado.

And we do try to eat out of the truck, but running team it's nigh on impossible to take the time to "stop" at a grocery store that has "truck" parking to shop. Seems like the loads we get are "time critical" so we really hardly have time to stop and fuel/switch drivers/grab a bite out of GagDonalds. (really i sometimes go hungry if that or subway is the only option...BLECH).

As far as an orchard, we started ours last spring. Some of the trees are doing okay, a few of them didn't make it. Our grapes & blueberries were still alive, last time we were home, although the bugs did some serious damage to the grape leaves. 

I think part of our issue with deciding on where to put it is the fact that we also want to build a small barn, a chicken coop, and a rabbit area as well. I'd also toyed with the idea of getting a couple of goats. So where we're going to build THAT series of buildings is also an issue. 

I guess I need a "Homestead Designer" to help me figure out the best layout for what we want, lol!!! Someone who can look at our piece of rock/soil and say .. this should go here and that should go there and this other building, well, it's in the perfect place although being more southerly would be a good thing. 

callieslamb, part of the reason I feel that way is because of how much I want to accomplish. Fence the property, build a barn, build a coop, build hutches, get rabbits, chickens and maybe goats. Plant a large garden. Build a shop for DH. Build a "root cellar" for food storage. Build a "picnic pavilion" for DH so he "thinks" he can invite over 50 people at once to have a cook out. (Heck, we don't even KNOW that many people~!) Time is definately NOT on our side.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

If your worried about a tornado blowing your home away, I'd move, or take care of that issue first and foremost.

Choose your poison. 

Home filled with food, that you know your going to need, come tornado or not...

of, a home devoid of food, come tornado or not.

One way, your fat and sassy, regardless, up to the point that a theoretical tornado strikes. Other way, your slim and ornery, regardless of tornadoes.

Prep anyway.

I'd be less worried about losing a thousand bucks worth of grub, than about losing my home, with 1K in grub inside it.

Deal with what you KNOW is going to happen. Every day your alive, your going to want to eat. I'd not live in fear of a tornado, hurricane, or earthquake... wrassle that bear when it shows up. Hunger is going to be at your door every day your alive... the bear shows up only on blue moons.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Sounds more like he is making soup.

One farmer asked his farmer neighbor if he could borrow his chainsaw today. Neighbor said "Nope....I've got to make soup today".

First guys said "What has your chainsaw got to do with making soup ? "

Second guy said "Well, nothing.....but if I just don't want to do something, isn't one excuse as good as another ? "


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## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

Thank you Texican! You've basically stated what I told him. I'd rather have food (tornado or not) then not have food (tornado or not). I read your post to him and he just said "heh" ... I think when it really comes down to it, I will win out


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## Texasdirtdigger (Jan 17, 2010)

You can Cache in 55 gal barrels... and even 5 gal buckets... in the ground if you do it correctly.


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

Texasdirtdigger said:


> You can Cache in 55 gal barrels... and even 5 gal buckets... in the ground if you do it correctly.


Kinda what I was thinking :thumb::thumb:


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## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

Do you guys mind sharing how to cache in 5 gal buckets for someone who hasn't a clue? (me) ... might go a long way to decreasing his paranoia if we can do that (and it'd be a whole lot cheaper!)


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## Texasdirtdigger (Jan 17, 2010)

OOOOOOOOOOh Cliff....... she caught our subliminal message.

I'll defer this to the master....if he wishes to expand. It's all yours JC.:bow:


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## Ode (Sep 20, 2006)

Compromise...stock for his 20 with the basics and for your 4-6 with more diversity. You can buy very large bags of staples and get them into 5 gallon buckets in mylar bags. Beans, rice, sugar, salt, barley, wheat. But you do need a safe place to store it all. Building a root cellar can be done inexpensively, and just because a tornado hasn't hit your place *yet* doesn't mean one won't in the future.

And as to your grocery shopping problem, what about a 12 volt cooler? Such a thing would pay for itself over time, and you certainly would eat an awful lot better. You could shop before you left home and fill it up with perishables. And there are a lot of foods you could buy that wouldn't need refrigeration at all. For an even cheaper option (at least initially) get a really big conventional cooler (which can hold a couple of weeks or more in perishables) and get used to buying a couple of big bags of ice every few days. Cooking could even be done with a small type of portable cooking system like the jet boil. You can get several different sizes of cookware for it. And I've seen tons of 12 volt appliances, many are marketed specifically towards the trucker market.

You sure would eat better and healthier versus the typical truck stop fare or fast food options.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

cnichols said:


> ...............callieslamb, part of the reason I feel that way is because of how much I want to accomplish. Fence the property, build a barn, build a coop, build hutches, get rabbits, chickens and maybe goats. Plant a large garden. Build a shop for DH. Build a "root cellar" for food storage. Build a "picnic pavilion" for DH so he "thinks" he can invite over 50 people at once to have a cook out. (Heck, we don't even KNOW that many people~!) Time is definately NOT on our side.


I think that's the position many are in. After 30 years of doing this - there is still a LOT we want to do. All you can do is prioritize and start hitting the list. Sometimes to get the priority list made we have had to draw straws if we can't come to a compromise. Our list is never going to get shorter as there will always be something else we want to do. Worry will kill you though- and take the fun out of the doing. 

It sounds like you and DH aren't on the same page yet and that's what needs to be tackled first. Probably isn't the easiest one either. LOL!! We knock heads around here a bit too, but it always comes out right in the end. You can't live for just tomorrow.

Could you incorporate the root cellar into one of the other buildings since you have to build a foundation anyway? There's a compromise - "Honey, we can build your shop first, but......

I think Ode has a great idea. Basics for 20 - everything for 2-4. 

And if you need to fill out those numbers for the cook -out - you can invite me!!!


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## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

Ode, that's a good idea re:basics for 20, diversity for 4-6. I like that. 

As far as the cooler, we have one in the truck already, along with a lunchbox cooker and a "water pot" for heating water. it's easy enough to stock for 2 weeks, however, we are usually out 3+ months at a time and THAT's where it gets difficult.

And Texasdirtdigger ... I'm good that way ... you don't have to smack me upside the head with an idea ... much 

callieslamb, yeah ... we have alot in common and want to do alot of the same things, just can't agree on what needs to be done first. As far as the cookout ... I think the drive might be a bit much but hey ... if you're game


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## Ode (Sep 20, 2006)

Is it possible for one of you to be dropped off at a grocery store to restock, then picked up after the shopping is done?


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I'm wonderin'.... when a tornado is hammering down towards ya'll.... what do you do? Hide in the bath-tub or 'run away' to a safer place? If you're running, you could have rubbermaid tubs full of grub, duct taped shut, and grab em and put em in the back of the truck, and get outta dodge. {ya'll do have a truck, right? }


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## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

Texican,

That's kinda my point. We've never HAD a tornado "hammering down" on us. LOL He's just concerned about the very small possibility that we "might". Where we are located, is on the north west side of the largest "mountain" in our area. Every tornado that has hit within 100 miles of us has never come anywhere NEAR where we are located. We don't get the winds that most people get, we don't get the rain that most people get, it's like where we are is "protected" from the worst of whatever is happening around us. Kinda wierd, but I like it that way.

And for trucks we have a 1998 Freightliner FLD (condo sleeper) and a 2003 Freightliner Century Class (condo sleeper). Not to mention "old blue" (whom I really don't trust to get us more than 10 miles lol). Old blue is a beat up 80's something work truck w/those side compartments and a "hoist" attached on top of them. 

Ya know, maybe I can convince him to put cinder blocks around that 20x20 slab we put in that isn't big enough for him to do anything on. A small Cinderblock building with a small a/c unit would make a decent "food storage" building, no? *ponders*


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

I think 20x40 sounds like a excellent idea--big enough to live in--then sell your mobile home and buy the groceries...


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

If you understand the difference in what each of you want, it makes a bit more sense. Your goal is to stock up on food and store it for when you need it. That's what the storage program is for. A root shelter and other things like that are for sustainable living after the initial collapse(or whatever happens). The root shelter helps you to store food you produced or gathered each year and helps you survive until the next spring when you can plant more crops. Both ideas are part of a comprehensive plan. It's just a matter of getting both done.:thumb:
If you think of the food storage part as short term and the root cellar as long term, it helps to see how they work together. 
BTW, there's a very good book on building and using a root cellar by Mike and Nancy Bubel. The title of the book is Root Cellaring. If you're considering a root cellar it's the best book to get.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

cnichols said:


> Texican,
> 
> That's kinda my point. We've never HAD a tornado "hammering down" on us. LOL He's just concerned about the very small possibility that we "might". Where we are located, is on the north west side of the largest "mountain" in our area. Every tornado that has hit within 100 miles of us has never come anywhere NEAR where we are located. We don't get the winds that most people get, we don't get the rain that most people get, it's like where we are is "protected" from the worst of whatever is happening around us. Kinda wierd, but I like it that way.
> 
> ...


Nothing above ground will work as well as something underground. I dug a hole for my storm shelter about 10 years ago. It's 8 feet deep, 8 feet wide and 8 feet long. I dropped a 1500-gallon plastic water tank in it and we use that as a storm shelter. It's always around 58 degrees in the tank, no matter how hot or cold it gets outside.


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## Pelenaka (Jul 27, 2007)

TnAndy said:


> Sounds more like he is making soup.
> 
> One farmer asked his farmer neighbor if he could borrow his chainsaw today. Neighbor said "Nope....I've got to make soup today".
> 
> ...



:hysterical: I have gotta make that in to a t-shirt.

~~ pelenaka ~~


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

Just a couple Ideas for you

http://www.earthbagbuilding.com/projects/rootcellar.htm

http://www.earthbagbuilding.com/projects/mendome.htm


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

You are truck drivers. Odds that you will be home to eat that food if TSHTF, are about nil. If there is some sort of natural disaster, you'll come home to nothing.

I'd put in the root cellar, full size. It's cheaper to build it right than it is to enlarge a small one.

Then I'd tell all those family members who think you are going to support them that it is their job to start appearing with cases of canned goods or 25 pound bags of rice or beans. Why should it be your job to buy all the food to feed your entire family? Make them contribute.

First thing this spring, I'd put in a bunch of apple trees. Once you have apples, you can store them all winter in that root cellar. Ditto for potatoes.

As for cooking in the truck, you must have a day off every now and again. Put some groceries in there.

Hmmm..... I wonder if I could have a business of appearing at the truck stops and selling fresh fruit?


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## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

> You are truck drivers. Odds that you will be home to eat that food if TSHTF, are about nil. If there is some sort of natural disaster, you'll come home to nothing.


#1 we don't plan on driving a truck forever! LOL Are you suggesting that we don't plan at all??



> Then I'd tell all those family members who think you are going to support them that it is their job to start appearing with cases of canned goods or 25 pound bags of rice or beans. Why should it be your job to buy all the food to feed your entire family? Make them contribute.


These "family members" don't even know that is what DH is thinking. Mostly he's thinking about "his" family (mine lives all over the country) and I'd say 99% of them he doesn't even talk to. Makes no sense to me why he wants to support someone who he doesn't even talk to. Since they don't know what "he's" planning (and would probably think he's nuts for thinking it) why would they be willing to supply food stuffs? Part of why I'm not "for" stocking food for so many. 

My desire for stocking for us +4-6 is because I "know" my middle son and his family are moving down this year (hopefully in a couple months). Two additional adults and two tiny children, I figure stocking for +6 makes sense. I look forward to them coming because I "KNOW" that they are of the same mindset that we are and they will be around to "start" things out with the chickens/rabbits part of our "plan".

And LOL!!!! A day off? Seriously? The only "days" we've had "off" since we came out are times our truck is in the shop for repair. FYI ... truck stops, repair shops and anything associated with truck drivers is 99% of the time located "outside" town and not near anything that could be of true benefit to a truck driver (i.e. shopping centers, etc.) because most people view truckers as a dirty nusence that must be "tolerated". A running joke out here is if there's a dump, prison or "nothing" around, you'll find a truckstop.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Does DH know how to use a backhoe or a dozer? In my area (next door in OK.) The rent is $150 for the weekend. You can do a LOT of digging in a weekend. Maybe dig out the hole one weekend. Spend a few weekends prepping the hole to pour a concrete ceiling, entrance, living space, air circulation, etc. Then rent again on another weekend to cover it all back up.


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## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

Spinner, we've looked into renting one, but don't have a trailer to get it home, therefore would have to have it delivered & picked back up which would cost more than the "rent"  What reallly bites is we HAVE a frontloader/backhoe ... but it doesn't work ... froze up from sitting for years without being started and used.

I will be honest though, this thread has given me a few things to think about ... and a few moments of scratching my head at some of the posts ... lol

Ah well, we will figure it out somehow.


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

What about one of those heavy duty shipping crates? A neighbor of mine had one when we lived in Louisiana and covered the top with topsoil because of the wind to keep it from blowing away. He only left the front few feet uncovered, sorta like a small hill with doors. He used clay because it hardens fast and when Katrina, Rita, and Gustav hit the area it wasn't going anywhere!


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Can't afford backhoes? or get the logistics down??? A shovel and 55 gallon barrels are better than nothing. Course I'd hate to do the digging in the summer time. Might even be a better concept that one very large centralized location (root cellar) as everyone that visits will probably notice it. Bury a barrel over here, and one over yonder, etc., in multiple sealed containers, and odds of all your caches being found are slim.

Depending on your location, soil type...rock? you could consider making a 'mound root cellar'. Build a concrete block cellar on a slab, then buy a load or two of topsoil, clay, whatever, and cover up to the top of the walls and add six inches or so of dirt on top, and plant grass. (Course, I'd rather have it in the ground, if at all possible.)


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

If you have the machine, and its broke down, get it fixed!!!! spend the dollars now to fix it and when your family moves down in a couple months, they can do the digging this spring when the weather breaks BEFORE the next tornado season!!!! plus having the backhoe fixed will allow you to do more than you think right now.

Having a Bucket Cache, plastic drum or pickup cross box cache aint a bad idea, if long term storage is your gig, then using the cache method is one thing that keeps you looking like everyone else in a catastrophic event, your cupboards are bare except for what you dig up from your cache's. 

5 gallon buckets are placed in holes in the ground AFTER they are filled with whatever you want to store long term and have placed oxygen absorbers inside and taken the air out, or if you are storing metal objects they are oiled, greased or otherwise prepped for long term storage within such an environment. the single, double blind or triple blind method is them employed depending upon how much you like digging and how deep you can dig. Double blind and triple blind simply means digging deeper then the three buckets themselves will fit, and placing 6-12 inches of soil and gravels between each of the buckets under the top one and it is dug down between 24 and 36 inches.... see it can get complicated without that backhoe..... some people suggest placing rifles and shotguns into PVC pipes and using the double blind method below the bucket in case of over all firearm confiscation....... the pickup crossbox is done in much the same way, though they are bigger and usually one tries to set those in place BEFORE loading them up to capacity and sealing them with a silicone caulking to prevent moisture from entering. the Plastice and stel drums are also set into place before filling, metal drums need some attention most of the time before setting in the ground...... the plastic drums are thought to be better in a couple of ways in that first they are plastic hence metal locators are not gonna work on them as readily, and second they are moisture resistant and will keep food better with the proper precautions taken in your storing those food items...... ground penetrating radr if used could find such caches, but first someone has to know you have such storage and second they have to know pretty much where to look[in these parts there is a huge area of national forest that folks have buried cache's on, some may never be recovered cause they forgot where they are, or the lay of the land changed over time, or the person perished and never told anyone where they are..... but for sake of tornado proofing, yours is gonna be known by you, your spouse and your family that is gonna live there.

The drum method is good because you can also use it to store root crops to a degree, and if you place a "dog house" over it you can access it in the winter months with less problems. Of course this does not take care of the shelter needs, but it will take care of the storage problem in the interim, while the "discussion" over what to build and where to build it takes place.....


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

just remembered...
if your going to go out and do caches, with metal objects inside , make sure you plant a lot of false positives... pieces of pipe, horseshoes, plow points, etc., in areas closer to the house, the idea being someone searching (unless they have ground penetrating radar (and who knows, I don't, can they actually visualize the buried object???) the folks doing the digging are going to get tired of retrieving all the lost metal you've been looking for for years.


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## Mutti (Sep 7, 2002)

Being in Arkansas one thing you need to consider is how it doesn't get cold enough to store root vegetables until late late fall; like Nov, at least. We have a rock cellar under our house but it is never cool enough to store anything early. So we built a doubly insulated room in a corner of our 30x40' workshop. Totally rodent prooofed. Lights and a stout lock. Deep shelves on one side hold tons of canned goods and the other is lined with buckets. The end has onions hanging in bags and bins for potatoes. This has worked well for us and stays very cool even in the heat of so.Mo summer. So far after ten+years we've never had it get too cold in the winter either. I'd love to have a real root cellar and have the perfect hill for it but this is working fine and was a much cheaper alternative. As to tornados....we have food out there,food in the house,food in the cellar...hopefully we don't loose it all in one big wind! No way of protecting ourselves against every possible bad event......DEE


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## Sanza (Sep 8, 2008)

Since you two are truckers and your dh wants a big storage cellar how about using a trailer (like one you haul)? I'm sure you could get one for cheap and there's a ready made shelter/cellar/storage just needing to be dug into your big hill a bit and then covered with more dirt. Seed it with grass, transplant a few plants and shrubs and in a year or two it will look like the hill was always there. Then you could go to further lengths and hide the entrance from prying eyes by planting a few trees.


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