# Gas or electric with solar?



## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

Hi all, I have a 4kw panel system- not battery back up. 

My electric cost here is NY is $ .14. Propane is $2.36 right now and changes with the market. I use propane for the water heater, dryer, range, and furnace. This was all in place prior to solar being put in.

I went over the last few years cost of propane and found I average $280/mo. -1200 gallons/year- My electric runs an average of about $55 mo. because if the solar. 

How do I figure if its cost effective to transition to electric?

I still want my gas range- no ones getting that from me- I HATE electric stoves.

BTW my furnace is over 90% efficient (I want to say 95 but I'm not sure) and is only 3 years old.

Any help is appreciated.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Take just the heat, for example.

If you changed to electric resistance heat, which is 100% efficient, the figures would go like this on a million BTU's of heat:

1,000,000 BTU / 3,413 BTU/kwhr / 1.00 (efficiency) x $0.14 kwhr = $29.30 per million BTU = $41

If you changed to an air to air heat pump that was 2.5 times more efficient than resistance electric heat, (1,000,000/3413/2.5) x .14 = $16.40

Propane @ 2.36/gal Propane has about 91,500 BTU/gal
(1,000,000 / 91,500 / .9 efficiency) x 2.36 = $28.65

Propane (@ $2.36/gal) beats an electric resistance heat, but looses out to a heat pump.

BUT you'd also have to factor in the cost of changing over to a heat pump from a 3 year old propane system.

The dryer, since it's only resistance, I'd think propane would win.

The water heater also.....plus with propane on the water heater, you have hot water if the power is off.....the main reason I switched from electric to propane on that.

Before I got too carried away switching appliances for the cheapest fuel source, I'd really look at more insulation, and general tightening up of the house.

I'd also consider buying my own propane (larger) tank if you don't already own it, so you can buy more ( or all.....I do ) your propane in the summer when the price is typically the lowest.


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

TnAndy said:


> I'd also consider buying my own propane (larger) tank if you don't already own it, so you can buy more ( or all.....I do ) your propane in the summer when the price is typically the lowest.


Ditto what Andy said.......If you don't own your tank start searching Craig s list for used tanks. Go with as large a tank as you can in order to have lots of supply and buying propane as cheap as possible in the summer. There are lots of deals out there right now, I just saw some 1000 gallon tanks for $1350 on Craig s list.

You could possibly save $1 @ gallon if you own your own tank and shop around. I love saving money !


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## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

Wow, thanks!!!!!

I have considered a larger tank. It 500 gallons and its owned by Noco, but I don't pay anything for it. 

 thanks again!


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,
I'd definitely agree with Andy on trying to find ways to insulate and tighten up the house. We took our propane from 1600 gallons a year to 750 with insulation, inside window treatments, better sealing and some solar thermal heat.

Gary


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I bought two used 500 gal propane tanks for around $300 each. Plus a small fee to "officially" have them installed.
Your propane usage seems very high. Why ? window leaks, thermostat set to high, etc. etc.


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

Since you don't have any battery back up do you send that to the electric company?


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## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

Ok, now I'm confused as to my usage. 

My house was built in 1999, by an excellent builder. Its a two story, 2100sf. The windows are original, but the year before last, I wen around and checked all of them with a Kleenex and found only one leak. I added more weather seal and that's not a problem any longer.

We have a lot of south facing windows and NO shading outside. 

I keep the thermostat at 68 during the day; yesterday I knocked it down to 66. And 60 at night. 

Last year I smelled propane in the house and they came out and did a complete leak check. No problems.


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

Well your climate is a lot colder than here in Carolina. Just for reference I built a new home 7 years ago with as much insulation and Good windows as I could. I'm heating 1750 Sft. with my utility bill costing me $1200 @ year. That covers my heat, hot-water, a/c, etc.

At $100 @ month I have been more than satisfied (I have not heated any with wood in these figures) and I attribute it all to good insulation, windows, doors and facing the house for sun gain in the winter.

If you have forced air heat I would check my duct work for any leaks because it don't take much to cost lots.


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

SJSFarm said:


> Ok, now I'm confused as to my usage.
> 
> My house was built in 1999, by an excellent builder. Its a two story, 2100sf. The windows are original, but the year before last, I wen around and checked all of them with a Kleenex and found only one leak. I added more weather seal and that's not a problem any longer.
> 
> ...


The 1200 gallons a year on propane seems a bit high to me as well considering the house relatively new and well insulated.

You could get another check on it by running this heat loss calculator:
http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Calculators/HeatLoss/HeatLoss.htm

It will also give you an idea where the heat is going.

I'd check with your utility and see if they have a free or cheap energy audit with a blower door test to check infiltration.

Gary


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

"A blower door test"

Good words from Gary.........

Even the good guy builder guys can make mistakes . . . . . . .


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## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

I have an appointment for an energy audit on Monday. I'll report back !


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

If you want to go ahead and do some solar, go solar hot water heater, very good payback/long life

Gary


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