# What wrong with my dads cattle



## mamato3 (Nov 1, 2008)

And have you guys been having this problem lately? 
My dad raises mostly a Angus herd with some Brahma and herford mixed in some of the cows. He runs about 50 head has done so since i was a baby. He lives in SW Missouri. Has not bought any new cows since spring. We had a drought and dad started to feed hay to help out. He decided to move them to a better pasture the same time a rain storm hit which got everything lushed up. After he moved them to this pasture they started dieing lost 8 so far. Mostly mamas with older babies at there side. Some of the condition ive heard him say was the butt looking prolapsed i thinks what you call it. And when he cut open a dead ones stomach a lot of air came out so he though he had bloat. Other problems Ive seen our heard are labored breathing with there mouth open there mouth is kind of foamy looking. Also there coughing and there is snout coming out of there nose and coughing.
Dad finally got a vet to come out to look and for $300 dollars the vet says the only thing he could think of was pneumonia.
So what do you guy think does it sound like what the vet said ?


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## randiliana (Feb 22, 2008)

Could be pneumonia or Pulmonary Emphysema. Your symptoms sound right for emphysema, unfortunately. We've dealt with it, and it is not fun. Any cows that survive it probably will need to be culled, because of lung damage.

http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/Beef Cattle Handbook/Pulmonary_Edema.pdf


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

A hungry cow getting a quick swap from Hay to lush pasture and lots of air in stomach. Sounds like bloat to me. Seem to recall there is a tool to stab through the side od a cow that releases the gas. Never done it myself.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Grass tetany is brought on by the sequence of occurrences you described.
http://www.ozarksfn.com/index.php?o...y-time&catid=90:farm-help-missouri&Itemid=159


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

agmantoo said:


> Grass tetany is brought on by the sequence of occurrences you described.


I think you just nailed it. Your cows are lacking magnesium.


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## DianeWV (Feb 1, 2007)

haypoint said:


> A hungry cow getting a quick swap from Hay to lush pasture and lots of air in stomach. Sounds like bloat to me. Seem to recall there is a tool to stab through the side od a cow that releases the gas. Never done it myself.



That's what I was thinking. Maybe going from the hay to lush pasture with lots of clover especially Ladino, red clover.


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## Ingi (Sep 2, 2010)

Anything in the hay? Just a thought. But it does look like bloat. Big calfs, hungry mothers, trouble on lush pasture.


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

agmantoo said:


> Grass tetany is brought on by the sequence of occurrences you described.
> http://www.ozarksfn.com/index.php?o...y-time&catid=90:farm-help-missouri&Itemid=159


Sounds likely to me.


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## mamato3 (Nov 1, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the replies. Pulmonary Emphysema sound just like whats going on. I will research each idea and print of any info for my dad .


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## copperhead46 (Jan 25, 2008)

I'm going with Agmanto, grass tetnanyt, you can't just change their diet like that, they can't take it


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## matt_man (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm in SW Missouri and this just happened to one of our milk cows. Moved them to a new pasture and 12 hours later she was breathing very labored and had terrible scours. Had the vet out...Pirella mint poisoning. It is really bad this time of year and especially when it is dry and pastures are "used up". Our cow luckily lived, she probably didn't eat much of it, but most cattle will die from it, according to our vet. There isn't anything you can do for it either but give them some dexamethasone and hope to cut down on the inflammation.
Our vet also said that he hadn't seen a case of it in a few years but it seems to go in streaks.

Pirella mint causes pulmonary emphesyma.


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## mamato3 (Nov 1, 2008)

Well he lost 1 more this am. Dad said he looked at her lungs and said they was dark red. He has had cattle for yrs done the same thing for yrs on the same land never any problems. Then all of a sudden bam cattle start dropping. He is so depressed right now. He just lost a lot of money this spring when half of his heifers failed to produce. Most were getting old but he did not have the money to replace them. And was hoping he could get 1 more yr out of them.
He is going somewhere Monday and see if he could get help for all the cattle he lost. He has to buy more cattle to replace what he has lost. Probably be sometime late fall after all the cattle recover before he adds anything.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Has your dad looked in the pastures to determine how much Perilla mint is growing there? It takes pounds of the mint to kill a cow and my cattle even refuse to eat it. Did the vet tour the pasture before coming to his conclusion? Over what period of time has the animals been dying?


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## matt_man (Feb 11, 2006)

Our vet did walk over the pasture and he did find some. We don't have a lot of it, only found a few plants. He did mention that most of the time cattle won't eat it but when there isn't a whole lot else to eat they will. If you walk around in some pastures here in SW MO, the pirella is the only thing that is still green.


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## randiliana (Feb 22, 2008)

Perilla mint isn't the only thing that will cause emphysema. When we dealt with it we had moved cows off of dry pasture onto regrown oats.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

It would be great to know what the pasture looks like and what is growing in it as well as when and how much nitrogen may have been applied.


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## mamato3 (Nov 1, 2008)

The pasture is a wooded area with a big verity of trees and a big pond. The vet was saying if there was any wild cherry's that could have harmed the cattle. Dad has alot of what we call wild mint growing in that pasture. Never worried about it cause the cows did not touch it. Dad does not fertilize that pasture. And cattle have not been on it for a while i think since spring. He does bush hog it once and a while. I cant find any info on that mint you guys mention what does it look like? I will go out tomorrow and look at the area and try to get pics if the camera takes good pics.


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

OMG! I just looked that plant up so I would be able to ID if I had any of it

http://www.utextension.utk.edu/publications/wfiles/W135.pdf

I had stands of it! Both lower pastures were FILLED with it! My first clue that it was a problem was when I put the cows and horses down there to clean it up and they preferred to eat the moldy hay leftover from last winter. Moldy leftover hay on the ground, trampled by goats, with goat berries and goat pea! 

I thought they were Cockleburr plants because I had a LOT of cockleburrs last year. So I looked up cockleburrs and the plants looked similair but not exact. Some of the plants looked exactly the same, but most of my "Cockleburrs" turned out were in fact those Perilla mint. Well Thank God the cows and horses wouldn't eat it!! I knew it had to be bad if they preferred that nasty leftover hay I was letting rot. I actually went ahead and used a chemical from TSC called "Pasture pro" on it. Does a great job killing it. But it kills just about everything else too. I moved all the animals to the upper pasture and went about spraying the stands of "Cockleburrs" (cockleburrs and Perilla it seems) with a little 2 gallon hand sprayer trying to save ANY edible greens out there. Killed just about everything just the same. Then a neighbor brought his backhoe and killed the rest by knocking down and dragging a bunch of the trees around. I just reseeded with Rye grass and am now hand plucking any of those "Cockleburrs" I see as I watch the rye come up.

Wow~ I didn't even know what a bad toxic plant I had~ and I'm telling you I had a LOT Of it~ easily 4 acres of the 10 acres in those two pastures was nothing but huge stands of that Perilla mint!


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

Mamato3~ yes~ a wooded pasture!! Both my lower pastures that were filled with it are wooded! Do a google image search of Perilla Mint I bet its out there!


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

mamato3
How old are the cows, in one post you said something about hoping to get one more year out of them.


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## mamato3 (Nov 1, 2008)

OMG thats the mint we have. We lost 1 more this am. He has them locked up but there is some of that in there pens. 
Dad sold all the old unproductive ones this spring and bought younger ones. Oldest ones that died was 14 the youngest i think was 2 yrs. The big thing is they have all had older calves on them. 
Bad thing is some of his heifers are starting calve hope it does not kill those mamas. Got to see if i can get him to leson to me and get rid of that mint.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Not trying to second guess anyone aboves opinion here........just throwing this idea out there. 

I've heard that this time of year when you move cattle to a new pasture that has a large growth of mature Johnson Grass that it can be harmful and even fatal provided you've been in drought type conditions. The johnson grass develops a high nitrate level and is toxic to cattle until after a significant enough rainfall to "wash" it down. 
Supposedly, they die of bloat type conditions. Just a thought.


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

I was told the same thing. I've got a lot of johnson grass in my upper pasture and I was told that after any stressing event such as a drought or the first frost I have to get the animals off the johnson grass for about a week. Apparently after a week whatever makes it toxic gets less toxic.


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## matt_man (Feb 11, 2006)

Johnson grass also is high in prussic acid after periods of drought. We don't actually have any growing in our pasture areas but we had talked to our vet about it when he was out here because we let our cows graze there in the spring and they love the stuff. He said he has seen more cows die of perilla mint than eating johnson grass and he's not seen very many of either.

Perilla mint usually grows in areas where the ground has been disturbed or around corral pens, hay rings, etc...


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