# Stall bedding



## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

We are building our new barn and I am reaching out o those who have barns, would like information on how you did your stall footing. 

Thanks in advance


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## mesa123 (Jan 15, 2009)

Avoid concrete in your stalls, it is terrible for horse legs. I prefer dirt floors above all else and use wood shavings or wood pellets for bedding. I have used straw in the past for foaling stalls, but I hate cleaning out straw bedding. I do not care for rubber stall mats. I have them in some of my stalls and will someday remove them. The stalls with mats stay wet, whereas the ones without mats dry out quickly. I have problems with my barn flooding, so my stall mat problem might not apply to you.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I like stall mats but you really need to clean daily. For me, when I was stalling horses, I would still have them out during the day. I would clean in the morning and bank the wet stuff so by evening it would be dry to put back in the center. I want always trying to save a dime.
Some of the best places I ever knew were the ones from the old days where they would layer rock, then a couple of feet of sandy dirt packed down hard, the another foot of packed clay. But about every two years the clay needed to be leveled and renewed.
Nowadays, I look at those honey comb mats with interest. But I'll never stall a horse again. They and I are retired.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I should elaborate a bit. I only stall horses that need extra hay or alfalfa for overnight. The rest are stalled, fed, get a flake of alfalfa, then turned back out after a couple of hours. 

I have looked at the honeycomb mats stall stuff as well, am getting some pricing for those. So far, I think we will be doing a 12 inch deep stall, put a layer of drainage stone, then a layer of sand compacted down, then the honeycomb, then pea gravel, then shavings. I use pelleted pine currently and I like it very much, but I don't know what I will use in my new barn...


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I like your plan and it should drain really well. 

I have hemlock board floors in my stalls and top it with pine shavings.

There is no problem stalling a horse overnight or even a bit longer.

ETA: Be careful with sawdust. Most of it is from hardwood, and if there is black walnut in the mix a horse can become laminitic just from standing on it.


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## cfuhrer (Jun 11, 2013)

We had packed dirt under pine shavings or sawdust. Maternity stalls were on straw.

One ranch I visited frequently had board floors over river rock with a sprinkling of shavings, and it seemed to work well for them.

I've seen plenty of rubber mats over concrete too, but agree that for long term leg health it is not ideal.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Our stalls are gravel, covered with rubber mats and then pine shavings for bedding. Clean stalls daily with a sifting rake to remove the apples & saturated shavings. Avoid sawdust bedding: they raise that dust and inhale it- not good.

Our stalls are left open unless temps fall below 20 deg at nite or 10deg days, with the horses free to roam their paddock or stay inside at will. They spend quite a bit of the day inside, especially if it's hot out. I think they think the flies can't find them there.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

We use lime screenings, it's like sand only you wet it down and it packs better. We don't use any bedding unless somebody has to stay in overnight and then I put shavings down. Usually they have free access to come in and out as they please and only get locked in for a short when I feed. We have a lean-to type situation and then I have gates hung that create a stall when closed and then go against the wall when opened.

Here's a picture of the barn. You can see the lean-to that goes down the side but it also is open across the back of the barn too to form a backwards 7.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

There is another way to look at it. With only a couple of hours of occupation, maybe they don't need bedding at all. If I have cause to shut a girl for a couple of hours, she doesn't pee on bare mats at all, prefering to hold it til she gets outside in a place that will not splash. They do poop on the mats but that is easily scrapped up. I think that if they have bedding, they would feel more willing to go.

Of course my girl are very focused eaters. They are not going to let little nuisances like having to pee interrupt their eating.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

The type of soil you have seems to be the biggest difference in what people like for flooring. We are yellow clay, concrete when dry and glue when wet. My folks barn was on clay fill which didn't let water leach through. Always a sticky spot that you'd pick up when cleaning until you had a hole. Mine was filled with a foot of what used to be ag slag-from sand size to two inch, packed hard it gets almost as hard as concrete but not slippery and it lets water leach out which saves on bedding. We also have nine free stalls with wood floor. Horses stomping flies will destroy the boards under their hind feet, they have to be replaced every two or three years. If I was to ever build another barn with free stalls I would concrete the floor. The stalls are one horse wide and they can come and go as they please so leg problems wouldn't be an issue. The two biggest issues I would change if I could. My barn aisle runs N-S, our summer breeze is from the south. The aisle gets the breeze but the stalls don't because of end walls. The building is a typical pole barn with wood siding and oak lining in the stalls. Vermin LOVE the gap between the lining and the outside wall so I'd change it to where the outside wall was heavy boards without the lining. Good luck with your new barn-the only smell better than new wood is new wood mixed with warm horse!


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

I'm looking at redoing my barn floors (previously packed dirt with clay topper). I often have a water problem too, and the usual issue with the dirt turning into a hole as you clean stalls over the course of a year.

Thinking seriously of going with wood this time - maybe 4x4s laid side by side and filled with sand or pea rock. One of my big worries is ice in the winter and slippery spots. It gets cold up here and ice was never a problem with dirt. I don't particularly like rubber mats as toppers for the slippery problem.

I dunno. I too usually never shut the guys in unless somebody is sick or it's a blizzard, so a long time spent on hard floors isn't much of a problem. They just come and go as they please most of the time.


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

We had a spot in our barn that was always wet. It was the horses perferred place to poop and pee. The barn floor was dirt as some have described and eventually I dug a hole cleaning up the mess. I dug out the entire area, put down geotech fabric (it is a thick fabric they put down when constructing road ways), put gravel on top, layered crusher run on top of that, and something finer on top of that. It was hard, but drained really well and the horses decided there were other places in the barn to pee. When I did have to clean up there it was easy to do. Had I had the money, I would have put mats on top of it, but I didn't. That is what I would do again. As a matter of fact, that is what I did to the mudpit that developed behind the barn.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I am in North Central Texas, so water isn't an issue for us so much as just not getting the hole in the dirt stalls from urine. I currently have 11 stalls in my barn that are just dirt floor with pelleted pine on top. I hate them!! When the new barn goes up, we will be able to do stalls correctly, I wasn't sure how others might keep the hole in the floor issue at bay. I have some stall mats in a few stalls and really like them, but when I have to stall during the winter, I like a deep base of something on top so my horses can lay down and stay warm. I will be stalling everyone (27) overnight during the winter unless the weather is decent. Anything over 30 degrees will be fine. Anything under that and I will keep most of them inside. I have quite a few that don't grow a heavy winter coat, so those ones will get to be indoors on really cold nights. I stopped using blankets for anyone last year, they lived. I did blanket when we got wet weather on the colder days, with a barn I will just keep them in on those days and so my blankets will be gone all together! 

Thanks for the responses, I have some good ideas.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Whatever kind of soil you have in your area, you need to plan the drainage in a barn and stalls, so there are no wet spots because the moisture leaves that area.

Doing the layering of stall floors, which involves digging down and removing soil, then layering in stone of some size, 2-3" pieces, a layer of that geotextile fabric, then smaller stone, another layer of fabric, then crushed stonedust, with mats over, will make excellent footing under stalls, which won't easily get high and low spots, drains fast. Each layer should be power tamped, before adding the next layer. If barn is level with surrounding dirt, you should think of adding buried drain tile around the walls, covering with gravel, to lead roof water, stall drainage, out and away from the barn. These are called French drains, after the man who invented them. 

Geotextile fabric is worth using to keep the various stone and dirt layers separated, rocks not disappearing into the soil over time. You can get it from Landscape places, or if you plan a lot of work, maybe buy a whole roll for yourself, have a truck deliver it. We bought our fabric on-line, had it delivered to the farm. It is really light to handle, but the 14' width does make it unable to come by UPS! Ha Ha Ours is kind of like cheap felt, almost see-thru, but easy to cut with scissors, I can carry the whole roll myself. Being synthetic, it doesn't 'wear out' over time. We have also used it under fill in the gateways, lane to the field which used to be DEEP mud. I love it, a great invention.

The French drains will make drying soil around barn much faster because it removes the quantity of water running off the roof, maybe running across the fields to the barn area.

I want to suggest AVOIDING the use of pea gravel as footing in barn stalls, around the barn area. Pea gravel is the small round rock size, but even the larger rounded stones are hazardous footing under your boots, horse hooves. The stuff NEVER settles until filled with poop and dirt, gets tracked away in hooves, gets stuck in hooves. If you want to use a good draining stone, get crushed limestone, with the rough edges that will pack, yet stay draining well. You can put a layer of Geotextile fabric over the crushed stone, put soil on top, not get them mixed together to keep draining for you.

Husband ordered a load of stone, asked for river rocks instead of crushed stone, STILL has not settled, after 5 years of horses on it daily. They were spraying the rocks over the fence, hit me with one in the face! Really hurt when they ran up to the fence and rocks went everywhere. I went a bit nuts, got some used stall mats and layed them over the river rocks to prevent the horses sliding in when coming to the fence. Works alright, just have to clean mats off and put back in place every now and then.

Rounded rocks in any size are NOT good for use around horses. 

As for not using bedding in the stall, that comment really made me mad. If you need to confine a horse to a stall, give her some bedding!! Beyond the possible issues of horse developing kidney problems "holding it for a couple hours", the spattering on her legs and skin, not getting washed off later, can burn her, take off the hair with repeated times of being spattered. I REALLY would like to have YOU in a room, keep telling you to "just hold it in" when you want to go to the bathroom or just wear your wet underwear for a few more hours!! That is truly just beyond LAZY. If you don't want to clean up after horse, don't lock them in. Get out a bit earlier and catch her then, with time to spare being ready to use her.

If you are buying bagged sawdust, you can sprinkle it some to avoid the dust, it is still very absorbent. I do that in the trailer, show stalls, when we haul horses to avoid the dust problem.

We have mats over the dirt floors in the box stalls, which drain easily into the packed, layered limestone drainage layers deeper down. Mats clean easily, quickly, insulate horse from the cold ground of winter. We bed deep enough to keep horse dry, when they lay down. Stalls cleaned daily, all wet removed. I do NOT pile it to let dry, want to get ammonia stuff outside so horses are not subjected to the fumes which can hurt their lungs. We have good air circulation in the barn, so if stalls are clean, there is no ammonia smell. Horses can easily handle being cold, over having to breathe ammonia fumes.

Our tie stalls have rough-cut boards for floors, over packed limestone layers for drainage and to cut smells. These stalls also have a good layer of bedding, deep enough to absorb any liquid, keep horse dry when they lay down. Rough cut boards from the sawmill are advised for stall flooring because they are not slippery like smooth, treated lumber. You also get full sized boards, because they have not been planed down to smoothness yet. Elm, White Oak, both make nice flooring boards. Use galvanized screws or nails on the green Oak, since the Tannic Acid will rust plain nails or screws, popping the heads off as they rust thru. Our floor boards are usually 2"x8", but wider is fine if we can get it. Tie stalls for large, light horses, not drafts, are 5 1/2' wide, they can easily lay down and get up. No one gets cast either, since they don't try to roll in there. Drafts would probably need 6' to 6 1/2' wide tie stalls because they have such massive bodies in these modern times.

I don't use straw for bedding unless it is chopped. Straw from a bale is not absorbent, liquids just go thru it to make a wet floor. Chopping straw makes a WONDERFUL bedding, equal to sawdust. Chopping straw is a pain, dusty, time consuming doing small amounts. I used my leaf shredder which did a great job cutting it, but I needed to wear a dust mask, got filthy, but allowed me to use up some old straw bales we had. Easy to clean quickly, liquids soak right up, don't flow around on the mats. Even the 4-H cow wasn't flooded on this bedding. I could pick up the wet spot, not need to move all the other bedding to be DONE with wet spot mess! If you have a regular chopper for the tractor, that would be wonderful to make chopped straw bedding. My farmer friends use their chopper and blow the chopped straw to fill the loft of the horse barn. Stored loose, they just drop it down into the stalls as needed. All those cut ends on each piece of straw is wonderfully absorbent as a bedding.

Maybe you can use some of this information in your location, to make life a bit easier. I was amazed at HOW MUCH water got moved once we put in French drains around the old, little barn. It quit flooding, no standing water, made life MUCH nicer in the wet times, even with Biblical type rainstorms of 6" or more in a couple hours.

Do it right the first time, so you don't have to spend time later doing stuff again. Maybe you can only do a little at a time, that is fine. Pick your worst problem to fix first, you will be happier not EVER dealing with it again!! My husband buys me "rocks as big as diamonds" by the truck load. I love it and am glad to NOT have my boots sucked off anymore going across the paddocks or opening gates. Running thru the mud in my socks was awful!!


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

I might add that I did have places in the barn where the horses would pee. I put the pelleted pine bedding there. I love that stuff!


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

goodhors, thanks for some good information. Thankfully I am married to a Master Builder, and we own a very large heavy Commercial/heavy Industrial construction company. I can communicate all of this information to him and he will get it dead on. I am extremely familiar with stone, but DIDN'T know about the pea stones being so slippery for horses. I didn't intend to use them on top of anything, but as the layer over the honeycomb mats, then covered with shavings. But I will avoid using them at all in the horses area. I love the limestone idea to help cut down on lingering smells, I hadn't thought about that. And I absolutely will have bedding down, I am just not sure what yet. I hate straw, what a mess. And chopped straw gets into EVERYTHING. I tried it in my chicken coop and hate it. I am probably going to just use fine pine shavings in my stalls. I clean my barn stalls daily and get every clean and dry. I remove all waste, especially the wet spots. 

I plan on 12 inch deep wells that we build up into good stall flooring. My barn will be 80'W x 140'L, with a bank of 10 - 14x14 stalls on one side, and a bank of 10 - 12x12 stalls with a little space at the end for quick grab supply space, like for rakes/shovels/etc. I will have between 8-10 12x12 stalls, plus my feed room, a tack room, and a wash bay in the center, with 10' wide aisles to drive a truck through when I offload feed or whatever. I will have a medical bay with a stanchion in one of the center stalls, closed in with washable walls. In that stall we will be able to do farrier work as well without having to stand outside in the dirt. I can't wait I have had horses my whole life, but just am now getting my barn I have always wanted!! It paid to wait for it


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

I would suggest rethinking the aisle width to make it 12ft. Having that extra 2ft makes it much easier to use the aisle. Even so, many things are a tight fit, like a full sized pickup truck and opening the doors. Driving the truck into the aisle with a load of hay sticking out over the bed tops, is WIDE. You may not be able to walk beside the truck to get back for unloading. Aisle is FULL. Hay wagons if you store hay in the barn, will be almost rubbing the walls even with 12' width. Seems folks ALWAYS are hanging stuff on stall doors or aisle walls, so that further reduces your available, usable width passing by the stalls. Blanket bars, halter hooks, lead ropes, wire baskets with brushes, the hose hydrant, all take up room in the aisle what ever width you choose. We are ALWAYS glad we did 12ft aisle, so very handy here for so many reasons.

You could lay out some measured lines, both 10ft and 12ft between, see how much real room you have to get around the truck. Remember there is no 'give' to a stall front tight beside the truck!

Sliding doors over dutch or swinging doors. You won't have horses jumping the bottom half of door, escaping. No strain as when horse hangs out over the lower dutch door top, pushing on it. No loss of aisle space with sliding doors, which you can make up yourself. Have to say we have only needed to adjust height of one sliding door over MANY years of use, no repairs at all. Quite unlike the folks we know with dutch doors, that constantly need attention and repair. Some injured animals happened going over the lower half when they thought all horse friends were leaving them alone.

Roll up doors over sliding doors at the ends of aisles. Cost more for roll ups, but folks like not having to dig them out in snowy winter or fighting with them in wind. Both kinds will have some cold air leaking in the edges.

Rough cut lumber if you have a sawmill, will be less expensive for inside stall walls than finished lumber. We did bars in front, space them tight so no hooves can get thru. Even BIG hooves will compress, so don't allow much room at all. Horse hoof thru the bars is a huge thing to deal with. Leg gets lots of damage with horse hanging from it. Conduit bars don't hold up, not strong enough.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Thanks! I will definitely go with 12 wide aisles. We plan on sliding stall doors. Roll up overheads too. On stall fronts, only heavy gauge steel woven mesh welded on steel frames for the sliding doors, solid wall fronts on either side (still working on that specifically). I love how my vets' stalls are, will do mine the same way. I'll post pics when I get some. 

Thanks again!!


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Alder said:


> I'm looking at redoing my barn floors (previously packed dirt with clay topper). I often have a water problem too, and the usual issue with the dirt turning into a hole as you clean stalls over the course of a year.
> 
> Thinking seriously of going with wood this time - maybe 4x4s laid side by side and filled with sand or pea rock. One of my big worries is ice in the winter and slippery spots. It gets cold up here and ice was never a problem with dirt. I don't particularly like rubber mats as toppers for the slippery problem.
> 
> I dunno. I too usually never shut the guys in unless somebody is sick or it's a blizzard, so a long time spent on hard floors isn't much of a problem. They just come and go as they please most of the time.


I visited an Amish farm recently. There are many standing stalls. They were built with railroad ties for the floor with concrete for the aisle. If a tie rots, just pry it out and pound in a fresh one.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

haypoint said:


> I visited an Amish farm recently. There are many standing stalls. They were built with railroad ties for the floor with concrete for the aisle. If a tie rots, just pry it out and pound in a fresh one.


One of my vet clinics I go to uses wood for their stall base, but I can't imagine how they keep it dry! I was going to check with them. I think it would be tough on their hooves...


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Put more bedding in the wood floored stall. they stay dry just fine. With good base layers underneath, the liquids drain down thru the boards that are butted together. Edge to edge, not tongue and groove, over sleepers to anchor the boards to. Floor is solid, stays put.

My tie stalls have usually got about 4 inches of bedding. Stalls cleaned daily, really don't have that much bedding to remove. Top of bedding is drained dry, have to move it aside to get the wet stuff on the bottom to remove. We get a wood product the seller calls wood fiber. Looks like wood mulch to me, VERY absorbent. He runs a tree service, so he uses removed wood to sell as bedding. They "know their trees" and are extremely careful not to use trees that are not horse friendly, like Black Walnut or trees in that family.

I have had no issues using this bedding, have purchased from him over 5 years now. LOVE having it delivered, dumped into the Sawdust Palace (old bin got a roof), not having to go get it.

In your barn planning, you might consider making one box stall into two tie stalls. I have to recommend them for being marvelous training tools, which actually don't take extra handling time to get horse cooperating well. You want horse really good about tying well before putting him in one of these stalls, knows how to "release pressure of rope pull", so everything else is gravy. They don't get kicky when you walk in beside them daily, bringing food, move from side to side as you fill a bucket. Takes a lot of spook out of them just brushing alongside them to reach the front with food or water hose. And this happens at least twice a day, putting horse in and out of stall, like a free training session with no extra time! 

For those newly purchased horses here, who might have been a bit cranky with light feet behind, kicking chains worked well, got over that problem fast! We can't have a kicky horse in a tie stall, we do NOT make accomodations to THEIR expectations. We use our aisle a lot, horse needs to get over not liking things by their rump end or being surprised, so they first kick THEN find out it was "nothing". Some were quite "high-powered" horses, lots of TB in them, bad handling with low training levels. Kicking chains are not an issue to the horse UNTIL he kicks out, THEN the chain raps his cannon bone rather hard. My chains are curb chains, not really heavy like logging chain often recommended. Chains are hung from straps above the hocks, reach the fetlocks so horse can't step on the chains. My horses are smart, they LEARN that kicking causes bad things. Self-inflicted pain to his action, much better, faster effect than what I could do to punish the behavior. Most wear the chains about 6weeks in the tie stalls if needed, then don't need them anymore. Horse will move to the stall front to be away from what bothers him behind, then turn to look back to see things clearly, so "there is peace in the valley" then. One horse did not learn, wore the chains for the rest of the time we owned her, but it was more a cranky thing with wanting stuff to be done on a strict schedule. We are "close to a similar time" most days, but nothing strict about it. Our schedules are very flexible in life, horses accommodate US. She was hard on the barn walls without the chains. She kicked if she thought breakfast was late! Was not at all touchy, reactive to or with stuff behind her.

Our first interest and use of the horses is driving them, so no one is allowed to be kicky at all, very important to us they keep their feet on the ground at all times when being handled or contained. Out in the pasture is HIS time, can run and kick then if they like. 

We feel using tie stalls helps horse be comfortable in small spaces, easier to handle, more patient working with you, getting over as asked, waiting to be tied up or untied to take him out. You are also doing "the laying on of the hands DAILY" which is so beneficial in keeping horses civilized, accepting of authority to direction. They are easy loaders into trailer stalls, don't mind being crowded for a bit if it needs to happen. Go thru small doors. They will tie well, calmly and for LONG times in other places like picket lines or trailer sides to enjoy your horses safely in other venues. Numerous benefits to horse spending time in a tie stall, for his education and being easier to use the rest of his life. I feel there was a big loss of training acceptance in horses, when everyone felt box stalls were the only way to keep horses. Even less handling and training learned with keeping horses out 24/7 with sheds. many never get a hand laid on them for weeks! No wonder horses are argumentative or untrain themselves! Never asked to behave.

Our horses are out daily, but spend half the day in tie stalls. Oldies, foal with dam, weanling to yearling, get box stalls. They all lay down if they wish, tie stall size allows that easily.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

haypoint said:


> I visited an Amish farm recently. There are many standing stalls. They were built with railroad ties for the floor with concrete for the aisle. If a tie rots, just pry it out and pound in a fresh one.


My first tie stalls, back when I was a kid at my Dad's farm had RR tie floors. Mangers too - ties 4 high stacked in front. They are nearly indestructible, and well...there isn't much to that old barn anymore, but the floors and mangers are still good. 

Frankly, that's why I was thinking of going with treated 4x4's. They should never rot, make a good solid floor, but aren't as hard to move around and set as those RR ties were. It was a project I'll never forget, and it's been 45 years.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

Goodhors, I thought I was the only one in the world who still used kicking chains!  Latest was with my good pleasure driving gelding who had a habit of kicking the back door in the horse trailer. That was the only time he ever needed them, and I just ran across them the other day in the trailer.

Agreed on the value of tie stalls, too. EVERY horse ought to know how to handle himself in a tie stall. Makes them much easier to live with, and a gentleman if visiting or needing to be stabled in a tight space under emergency conditions.

I think driving folks might be a little more old school this way, because frankly, we work so close to the horses body all the time in vulnerable positions. 
Rank and stupid behavior isn't as acceptable.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

Goodhors is right about the 12ft aisle. I have a ten (actually closer to 9'4 when you take out the space for the sliding doors), it's a major pain! My folks barn had a 16' aisle which I didn't like because with the manure spreader in the middle it was too far to throw from the stalls. Something else I did different if I can figure out how to explain. Most barns the box stall doors are all on one side of the stall front. Stall front-door, stall front-door. I did mine so that I have stall front-door, door-stall front. That allows me to park spreader and do two stalls at a time without moving it. My doors are solid but if they were halves or had openings horses could reach the one next door. I used reject galvanized conduit for bars on the front and for the hay feeders. Only problem I've had with them was horses would chew the wood between the bars until the bars fell out. The most used box stalls have corner feeders built from 2"x6"'s, the face board mounts on the walls two feet from the corner. There is a 2"x4" across the back on the aisle side that has a piece of plywood that slants from the front of it to the aisle side stall front. The front of the hay rack is conduit and is straight up and down so horses can pull hay from it without chaff falling on their heads or in their eyes or noses and the vertical bars keep them from dragging it out and wasting it. The angled plywood lets the hay fall down against the bars. Both hay and grain can be put in from the aisle. Yours sounds like a monumental project-just the number of horses to take care sounds daunting, especially when I think of picking 27+ stalls a day!


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I also like the stall door, door stall idea. It would definitely make mucking easier! And I am going with a 12 foot aisle, thanks for the info!

I love working the ranch, but this year I am going to hire some help. I had 2 ranch hands for about a year, but had to let them go when I found the man drunk at work a couple of times. That made me so mad!! So for the past 8 months I have been doing it myself again, but with that large of a barn I do need another picker! We just brought our cattle back home and I have my hands full tending to everything alone now, but good help is soooo hard to find:-(


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

goodhors, please go into detail (a picture would help) about kicking chains? I have never heard of them, I don't do any driving with my horses. I do have some stall kickers though, and that is a major no-no in my barn. One 2 yr old Morgan filly in particular is the biggest problem. I would love to break her of that habit. 

I currently tie out 17 horses twice daily to feed. I move around them a LOT while catching, tying, and grooming, plus picking hooves. All are very easy to handle and respond to both voice and touch commands. I can run a horse backwards with just my hand on their chest, and they all yield head and rear at a touch. My herd runs together and I absolutely have to have control on the ground in an emergency, so all of my horses are taught how to move away at a touch in an instant. I am the Alpha also, they don't mess with me when I ask them to do something It isn't optional!


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

goodhors can chime in on his/her method - some folks put them above the hock, some around the pastern.

I use something on this order, and buckle it above the fetlock. That way, the horse doesn't step on the chains, but gets get a good sting of he kicks. Simple and effective.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Duplicate


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

The one time I used kick chains, I broke apart a set of padded leather hobbles the attached a length of chain to each one with a connector. I put them around her fetlocks. They did work. After the first couple of minutes, she would lift a leg as if to kick, hold it still then slowly set it back down.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

where I want to said:


> The one time I used kick chains, I broke apart a set of padded leather hobbles the attached a length of chain to each one with a connector. I put them around her fetlocks. They did work. After the first couple of minutes, she would lift a leg as if to kick, hold it still then lowly set it back down.


I've only put kick chains on above the hock to stop stall kicking. What is the theory for using them on a fetlock? Wouldn't they be able to step on the chain and possibly fall? 

I hadn't read your post, Alder. I see where you put them above the fetlock and use a shorter chain to avoid the problem.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Alder, thanks so much for the picture! I am going on Monday to buy a set of hobbles and some chain! I love that idea, had honestly just never heard of it.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

I've never had to put on chains for kicking but I did do what where i want to did for a mule that wouldn't stop pawing. I couldn't seem to keep them above his knee unless they were too tight so settled for cannon. If they fell down he would step on them but that actually taught him to yield to the pressure.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

Aoconnor1-I remember having your energy level years ago but it makes me tired now just thinking about it. Something else I thought about that I did with my barn that turned out to be handy was every other stall divider is removable. With as many stalls as you'll have you wouldn't need to do all of them that way but a few would give you 12 or 10 x 24 stalls for foaling or for a horse that has to have a buddy. I'd put a mid board up in the double stall to allow the foal to have its own side for creep feeding and when I weaned I could put two together for company. Also had one 24' section with 3 solid wood swing gates that could be 3 8' or 2 12' or one 24' stall. I could swing the gates open to bring horses in that didn't want caught. A lot easier than trying to get them to go in an aisle door. It costs a good bit more but get the double roller track for the stall doors. Our builder used the single track and more than once we've had an agitated animal knock the door off the track or we've done it trying to open or close a door too quickly. The sliding doors all had that metal catch on the bottom to stop the door at the end of the track. They were just far enough off the ground that a horse's hoof could slide under and the catch could slice through the coronary band. (You can guess how I know) Use a stop at the end of the track on top or a block of wood at the bottom. We only have a half dozen cows but we've found that our setup actually works pretty well for them too. Except for keeping stalls clean-can't seem to pick the cow patties very well!:surrender:


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

mulemom, I am 50, energy level is draining rapidly! Still have enough for this though, horses are my passion

I plan on several foaling stalls, so will put removable panels between several of my stalls. I also have one old mare that hates being confined in small stalls (her current stall is a 10x20, I had to move her from a 12x12 because she weaves), so she will get a luxury suite, a 14x14 with a removable panel in case she gets too shut-in feeling Other than that, I have two mares I will be breeding this next spring, so will have at least 3 stalls I can pull a divider out of should I need them.

I'm not positive what doors I will using, but it may be swing doors. I don't prefer them, but I do worry about a horse blasting out of a partially open sliding door and getting cut up )guess how I know about that!). So I am still undecided, but will definitely look at all options carefully and if I go with sliding doors, I will use a double track. Mine will be inlaid if possible so there are no possible cut hoofs or other parts. And the doors, no matter if they swing or slide, will all be full to the ground with no space under them. Saw that nasty little piece of work when a horse at a place I used to board danged near cut her hoof off under a door when she rolled in her stall. 

Thanks for the good tips!


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Here is a photo of our style kicking chains, hung from the hocks. Straps are cheap dog collars, chains are English curb chains, which I had a supply of laying around. I taped over the connection hook between chains to prevent any sharp edges around the horse. 

And while the other photo posted is pretty, it is leather, wide, so it is less able to stay in place above joints like hock or knee without being too tight. I don't care for the chain dragging on the ground, too likely to step on it and trip. My hobbles are made of burlap, for softness, ability to fit any horse well. I haven't found a good fit with leather hobbles on wide chested horses because they pull front legs too tightly together. Uncomfortable into painful, depending on how long horse wears them, so they are not a good tool, in my thinking. I also don't like leather because of the upkeep, needs attention to keep it soft and water resistant. I have ENOUGH leather goods to keep conditioned, soft for use, so I avoid leather if I can use another type of item to fulfill the purpose. These dog collars are about 1/2" wide, come with the nylon clip snaps already in place, have a huge adjustment ability to fit legs well. They are not fitted tight, just snug with room to move a bit on the leg, not cause constriction. Chain will always hang to the lowest point, end up in front of hock, so setting the buckles to fall on side of hock, soft strap across the tendon just above point of hock, keeps horse from getting sored up.

I always put two kicking straps on, since in my experience even with a horse being say, "right footed" in kicking, they often will swap legs to kick with their less favorite leg. So best to put the kicking chains on both legs, prevent you getting surprised if horse changes legs to take a shot.

Horses don't seem to mind getting strap on and off, don't connect it with THEM trying to kick and being punished. Does help horse get less 'touchy' with this extra handling of putting chains on and off daily.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

goodhors, thank you very much for the pics. Those look very easy to use and I won't have to worry about the chain getting stepped on. Since I posted my last response, my big 4 year old Percheron gelding has decided he is going to try kicking when horses come near the water trough to drink while he is near. Not happening. I am going today to get collars and chains...enough is enough!


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

Something we just ran into-or I should say-dug into. If you're putting in frost free hydrants putting stone all the way to the surface makes it easy for water to drain away if you spill a bucket, just don't use anything much bigger than 1". That size can be dug up almost like dirt. When I put our hydrant in 20+ years ago I had 2" stone left over from septic installation so that's what I backfilled with. Neither DH or I were happy campers digging that hydrant up.:duel:


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

mulemom said:


> Something we just ran into-or I should say-dug into. If you're putting in frost free hydrants putting stone all the way to the surface makes it easy for water to drain away if you spill a bucket, just don't use anything much bigger than 1". That size can be dug up almost like dirt. When I put our hydrant in 20+ years ago I had 2" stone left over from septic installation so that's what I backfilled with. Neither DH or I were happy campers digging that hydrant up.:duel:


In my area, the ground is clay. a frost-free hydrant can freeze up. The way a frost-free hydrant works is the water drains out at the base. If the soil around the base doesn't drain away, builds up, the hydrant will freeze. I put in several frost-free hydrants. As I ran the water line, I put in a 4 inch flex pipe and three 5 gal pails of crushed stone at the base of each frost-free hydrant. I cut the flex pipe at the base of each hydrant. The flex pipe runs to a low spot 100 feet away. Without this drain, the clay soil will hold the hydrant's drain water, preventing drainage, causing it to freeze and burst.

Your gravel backfill is a good idea, if the soil below will allow the water to drain away. In a cold area, the spilled water will freeze creating a rocky block of ice and stop draining. No big deal, the frost-free hydrant will still work.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

Haypoint's correct. We're all clay also, in 1981 when the barn was built i dug a trench and made a french drain to the outside of the barn from that hydrant. The drain's still good so we only had to dig around the hydrant. It just would have saved us a lot of aggravation if I'd used pea gravel on top of the bigger stones at the bottom of it. This hydrant's inside a 3x3 insulated room with an electric baseboard heater-cramped quarters. We keep the hoses and anything else we don't want to freeze in there since the tackroom's not normally heated. Aoconnor1-Hope you'll post pictures as your barn goes up-would love to see your progress and your layout!!!!


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