# How do we get beyond the Govt and survive this Coming Tria



## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

My question is why? why are they apparently deliberately trying to provoke us( we the people)? Is it the need to see if we will backdown prior to TSHTF...is it necessary for BO to become a dictator he must have a revolt to squash. I am baffled by why the congress and Obama keep pushing? Does anyone else feel this or just me? It seems like they are event by event driving us to the edge and then kicking at us to jump? What say You all??????How do we prepare and survive what the Government is now instigating??:bash:

*" When in the course of human events it becomes necessary......"*


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Only a small percentage of us feel that things are going this way. It feels like more do because you're here, in the swimming pool where everyone knows how to swim. I'm telling you though, it's a desert out there and most people don't even know what water is.

I think that they truly believe they have won and can take this country into a socialist regime without a fight.


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## adenblue (Apr 12, 2008)

I don't know if this crisis was manufactured or not but I do believe that those in power are milking it for all it's worth. Why? To get more power, I'd guess. Some people feel worthless without being in control of someone else. 

I just haven't quite figured out yet whether they are trying to avoid a rebellion or provoke one.


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## Razorback21 (May 13, 2003)

I just can't believe how much has changed in 14 months!!!!! It is incredible to think we are on the verge of nationalizing some of our banks. And Ernie's right, we Americans are more concerned with who's getting kicked off Survivor or who the next American Idol is gonna be. I've always considered my thought process and values different than others around me here, but I've never felt it more than right now. 

Sitting around today talking to some friends of mine after work, one of them asked if I was still growing everything I eat. I answered yes, and he goes, "You know, McDonalds is open until Midnight!!!! Some folks won't get it until it slaps them square across the face.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

A majority of the country was go along/get along with the British, too.


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

When aprox. 51% of the population is receiving some kind of a gov. check and another 1 in 242 are in prision (aprox.) I wouldn't expect things to get much better anytime soon.

But I sure hope I'm wrong.


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## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

Ernie said:


> Only a small percentage of us feel that things are going this way. It feels like more do because you're here, in the swimming pool where everyone knows how to swim. I'm telling you though, it's a desert out there and most people don't even know what water is.
> 
> I think that they truly believe they have won and can take this country into a socialist regime without a fight.


I fear you are correct sir...I would hope that more and more will awaken to the need to survive and perhaps they will but My question is I have been prepping seriously for about 5 years now...and I know I am woefully unprepared as much as I would like to think I am not I insticntively Know I am....All I can do is to continue to stock up and to plan and to layout security etc...will ever be enough Who really ever knows....I am concerned that many will perish for want of being stupid....or at the least not very aware....it really saddens me to think that the government I served could do this to its citizens....Make no mistake it is not all Obama's fault but he has excellarated the process.....:flame:


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Small story.....

In high school I had a history teacher who was trying to bring colonial history to life....or at least interesting enough for us to pay half attention to. (hey, I was 14 alright?) Some kids in class made him mad that week. As a consequence the teacher decided to add some crazy loads of homework and a bunch of seriously BS rules. He turned into a tyrant. It was so bad that many of the kids hated him. Even a couple parents called in but nothing changed.

After a week or so of kids grumbling everyone in class would moan in unison and started to have visible disdain for the lesson. At one point things got so bad that several kids refused to do the classwork and started to speak out without regard for the consequences he had made in his new rules.

The teacher smiled from ear to ear and said "about time you guys got mad". It turns out it was an elaborate plot to teach us the real feelings and values of oppression and dissent. He had planned to make us so angry we fought back. He had told this in secret to the parents who called so they would not ruin the lesson. It was all a hoax to get us to think and more importantly to act in spite of it being scary.


Of course to imagine that on a grand scale in such times of greed and power lust is naive of me. I prefer to envision that possibility than the alternative. (although I am bracing myself for the alternative)

I do know a large portion of our population has become complacent especially when it comes to politics. Many people have grown painfully accustomed to a way of life we simply cannot sustain in the long term. In order to change the course of this mob it will take some very crafty maneuvers.

The alternative.......people accepting a yoke for a few conveniences and for them I have zero pity. It's about time everyone start to wake up and be offended regardless of the circumstances behind it or how it ends. I say make them suffer more, make them feel all the pain that is neccessary to get this whole country to where it should be. Otherwise I see us riding a long slow decent from which our once great nation may never return.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

I'd be happy to suffer a little to get our country back on track. I think we'll all suffer anyway, the way things are shaping up, but it would be great to "reset" the American mindset. Have everyone think frugal, independent, hopeful, hardworking thoughts instead of waiting for someone to come save them.

My grandparents, God rest their souls, worked hard all their lives. They were born in 1915 and 1919 and grew up during the Great Depression. My grandfather didn't have shoes until he was 15, unless he wore his father's boots. My grandmother helped my great grandmother raise her 9 kids, and washed clothes on a washboard for other families to make ends meet. They married at 16 and 20, and had $5 between them. They raised a family during WWII, and my mother remembers eating ketchup sandwiches and having one dress for school. They never expected a handout, and would have been offended by the offer. They helped their neighbors, and were involved in the betterment of their town. They never used one dime of credit, did without until they could afford to pay cash, and lived frugally all their lives. They ended up leaving their two daughters almost $1million in cash, a bunch of antique furniture and a nice little house. 

I miss those type of people. I wish I were more like them, and certainly I wish our country were more like the one they lived in.


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## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

Edited


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

I just wish something like that were possible.

I am also smart enough to know that the collective intelligence of the mob rule in command coupled with the percieved ability for them to be altruistic makes my wish laughable.

Just wanted to express that it is possible. It is also possible that I will metamorphose into a giant kafkaesque cockroach overnight.


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## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

hintonlady said:


> I just wish something like that were possible.
> 
> I am also smart enough to know that the collective intelligence of the mob rule in command coupled with the percieved ability for them to be altruistic makes my wish laughable.
> 
> Just wanted to express that it is possible. It is also possible that I will metamorphose into a giant kafkaesque cockroach overnight.


Edited By ME


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

How do we get beyond the Govt and survive this Coming Trial?
Divorce ourselves as much as possible from the govt... make 'support payments' when mandatory, but that's it.

Best way I know how to survive is to be prepared for my family, and against those that support this govt., and will be looking for what I have, when they've run out.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Hintonlady, what an awesome teacher. I can't even imagine a teacher today getting "permission" to teach such a fantastic lesson.

I've said it many times before, we have been in economic war with China since Kissenger and Nixon diverted China's attention from Vietnam by opening up favored nation trade status. The Bejing Olympics and Hillary going away from her "human rights violations" stump tell me that we are in end game of the war, if not checkmate. The U.S. bravado has turned into "Will you please buy more of our bonds? Pretty Please? We'll play nice."

Any 3rd grader can see that at a little over a month in power, Obama didn't _create_ this problem any more than McCain would have been guilty of creating it or Ron Paul would have been guilty of creating it. Get real and skip the partisan BS. The roots go way back before Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, and Carter, to Nixon and his clip away from gold and Johnson and his "Great Society." That's right, equal opportunity for both political parties to be at original fault. 

The current "solutions" are temporary and are intended to maintain social and class structure. Deal with it. *THAT* is an unwritten goal of _*every*_ government and leader - maintain the status quo and support the powerbrokers so they don't rip you from power. _Every_ Congress, _every_ Administration, has played for short term gains at the expense of the future. The future is now, and those spiffy cars you bought under Clinton and Bush I? They are now rusting.

The working public has been maltreated like the horse in "Gone With The Wind." It had a rag thrown over its face when Atlanta burned (China became a superpower equal in military capability to the United States if pressed) and has been driven hard down the road without even the courtesy of being put away wet. Every Congress and administration since the time of Nixon has been guilty of this. Even Reagan put China on a back-burner and held the rag over the eyes of the working public for fear of it rearing and balking.

At this point, it is _better_ to let some stuff fail and some fortunes be lost. The powerbrokers didn't get that way by having weak egos. They NEED to fail before they will accept alternatives to their preconceived notions. The people over-extended on credit _need_ the cold bucket of water in the face to stop the blind optimism that allowed flexible rate mortgages to become the rule rather than the exception. 

Eventually, someone with more spine than an earthworm needs to declare Credit Default Swaps to be illegal. As long as those exist, people make money by destroying companies. As long as they exist, the small investor has no place in the stock market. As long as they exist, any employee in any company is at risk. When the CDSs are declared illegal, some of the worst leeching tycoons will go belly up, and the rest of us will again at least have a chance. 

How to survive? By having the smarts to avoid the pitfalls of losing propositions like long term cell phone contracts, balloon payment mortgages, and single sources of income. By having the fortitude to say no in public meetings and force out Congresscritters that are more afraid of their own political party than the people they are supposed to represent. By intentionally seeking out low tax areas of the country and abandoning en-masse the crazy nanny states like California, leaving the "we wanna regulate your backyard BBQ" crowd without anyone to regulate out of existence but themselves. By intentionally NOT being party to the games - NOT accepting money with strings attached - NOT taking any job that you know works against things you believe in. By saying bye-bye to banks that want to charge you for not having enough money in your savings or checking account. By confronting the greedy and telling them that "No, you aren't incredibly smart, or incredibly savvy in the market or how to use people, you are just plain GREEDY and taking unfair advantage of your position."

You have to break through the barriers of the luxury cars, the gated communities, the million dollar condos and high-end shopping centers, and touch those people buying thousand dollar suits, and let them know, simply and honestly that "No, you aren't living a real life, you are being a self-centered pig and you got that way by exploiting the labors and good will of those who worked hard and had morals." And you have to do that in a way you won't get arrested.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I used to have a little hope, but then I started participating in the general chat and politics section of HomesteadingToday. If homesteaders don't believe in libery and endorse socialism, then I can't imagine that Joe and Jane Suburbia are going to man the barricades with me. Over the course of the past week I've been called a traitor, an idiot, and a drug-crazed hippy, in various wordings. That's for repeating what our founding fathers said. 

That's what I get for reading the old school Radicals like John Taylor and Patrick Henry.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Ernie said:


> I used to have a little hope, but then I started participating in the general chat and politics section of HomesteadingToday. If homesteaders don't believe in libery and endorse socialism, then I can't imagine that Joe and Jane Suburbia are going to man the barricades with me. Over the course of the past week I've been called a traitor, an idiot, and a drug-crazed hippy, in various wordings. That's for repeating what our founding fathers said.
> 
> That's what I get for reading the old school Radicals like John Taylor and Patrick Henry.


Color me astounded as well. One of my first observations on HT.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Three or four party . . . ya . . in your dreams.........

How much Big money is used to quietly squelch folks like Dr. Ron Paul for example. .??
Take a look at all those congress critters that keep getting re-elected . . . some of them are older than dirt.
For instance here in Mich. Carl Levin got elected........ Again...
As long as those idiots stay in there its going to be the same ole carp . . .
They wont *make waves* . .but will go *with the flow* . . .how ever wrong that 'flow' is.

A house cleaning is certainly in order sooner that 2010 or 2012.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Ernie said:


> I used to have a little hope, but then I started participating in the general chat and politics section of HomesteadingToday.
> 
> *that was your first mistake:croc:*
> 
> I've been called a traitor, an idiot, and a drug-crazed hippy, in various wordings. That's for repeating what our founding fathers said.


I find those to be your best qualities.:cowboy:

Of course I know you as a well read patriot on a blissful blueberry wine buzz.....but whatever.


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

i've read that revolutions don't happen when people are poor, they happen when the former middle class becomes poor, ie, it's not poverty, it's people's dreams being dashed that foments rebellion.

the current economic problems (ie, housing bubble) have been building for several years. however, the majority have been too excited by their rising house price to look under the covers and ask how prices can rise so much when incomes didn't. House prices peaked summer 2007 for most of the country, but there was little discussion for the first year. More discussion the second year, but the stock market was still up, so the mainstream media and most of the public wasn't that worried. Everything was "wait it out, real estate will come back next year." 

It really wasn't until the stock market crashed last Oct (a mere 4-5 months ago) that the public really woke up to the fact that there are serious problems. And the unorchestrated anger at the wall street bailout was pretty quick to take off too. Keep in mind that Iceland wasn't protesting anything either, until suddenly their banks were wiped out, and then a bunch of people banging pots and pans drove the prime minister out of office. Not like any problems there have been solved, but when the rug is suddenly yanked out from the middle class, they'll react. 

--sgl


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## Cotton Picker (Oct 10, 2008)

Bigkat80 said:


> My question is why? why are they apparently deliberately trying to provoke us( we the people)? Is it the need to see if we will backdown prior to TSHTF...is it necessary for BO to become a dictator he must have a revolt to squash. I am baffled by why the congress and Obama keep pushing? Does anyone else feel this or just me? It seems like they are event by event driving us to the edge and then kicking at us to jump? What say You all??????How do we prepare and survive what the Government is now instigating??:bash:
> 
> *" When in the course of human events it becomes necessary......"*


Do you mean something like this?

*âBut when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.â* --Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776.http://www.ushistory.org/Declaration/document/index.htm

It is the lead-in quote for the Article RESISTANCE TO SOCIALISM IS BUILDING 

http://www.newswithviews.com/Daubenmire/dave143.htm 

It's a pretty good read, replete with point and click side articles.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Ed Abbey once said that the way to overthrow the government was to " kick in your TV set, brew your own beer, and ---- off your front porch when you bloody well want to". Back when I had more direct contact with the "earth first" types who held Abbey as their messiah, I would point out this also could be good advice for saving the environment. Rather than devoting their energies to their animal rights agenda and spiking trees.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

This will probably be a surprise, Ernie, but of all the people on HT, you're the one I'd most like to sit down with over a pot of coffee and discuss the world. We disagree about a great number of things, of course, but it's obvious that you've put a lot of thought into your positions and if nothing else, that deserves respect.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Mom_of_Four said:


> I'd be happy to suffer a little to get our country back on track. I think we'll all suffer anyway, the way things are shaping up, but it would be great to "reset" the American mindset. Have everyone think frugal, independent, hopeful, hardworking thoughts instead of waiting for someone to come save them.
> QUOTE]
> I don't think most people want this, they don't want frugal. They want to "live the life" as they've worked for it. The new car, great house, all conveniences is a sign of success. They want to relax when they get home from work, not pluck a chicken for dinner,grind flour, milk a cow, or stoke a fire. A person being prepared for a crisis needs to know those things plus some, and be willing to work hard.
> To rebel against the government would mean the possibility of more work, less comfort. People I talk to outside this board see nothing different with the government, it's the same old corrupt politicians they've come to know and accept. They are still buying the newest video games, tv's and frozen dinners. I have a very hard time talking about preparing for crisis and/or homesteading as most people do not have the slightest interest.
> ...


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## EarthSheltered (May 9, 2008)

To see that there are people who actually look 'beyond' the talking heads. I frequent a lot of horse bulletin boards, and it is appalling how they are like puppets, repeating the party line. Posting links to the latest commentary, like it proves their point. It does not occur to them that they are being manipulated into blaming the other political party, which of course takes any blame off of any wrongdoing on the individual, or the government in whole. They are content to point fingers, complain, then go off feeling satisfied they have done something...I rarely even try to get a decent discussion going anymore, its hopeless. Most of them don't even understand the importance of who we elect for Supreme Court Justices...

Anyway, while I don't agree with everyone's viewpoint here, I appreciate a honest discussion with no name calling, no personal attacks. I'd love to have a cup of tea with anyone here, but I know we are all to busy making a living, and preparing to support ourselves no matter what. 

My husband would love the discussions here as well, but he is too busy out trying to hold his business together, plus look as far ahead as possible. I do read him excerpts when we have time, but he is a history buff as some of you are, and would greatly enjoy those discussions. Once spring hits, neither one of us will be here. 

IOW, don't let the little people get you down, continue on the discussions! :goodjob:


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

I think the government is running scared from the natural liability of having a mass of the middle class unemployed. This represents danger to them. And with the view that most are feeling they've been robbed, and rightly so, I think they're *&() their pants right about now in Congress, and it shows.

They're working hard to prop up the status quo. If it works, great. A crisis has been averted. If it doesn't, great. We might get back to a more sane and practical, more sustainable existence.

Either way, there is a good outcome. Which one is better? It depends on where you land in the scheme of things. After all, most people don't judge a government on anything but in relation to their creature comforts.

I've noticed that most people uninvolved in political happenings view the government as separate from them, as powerless in the process, as uninterested because they don't see the connection between their lives and what government does every day. Once that connection is made clear (as in a discussion I had with my sister when I had to point out that governments actions directly related to their economic well being and how) the light bulb comes on and many start paying more attention.

The more complacent people that can be reached and educated on where their responsibilities lie in this process, the better off we all become. Think of it like a Christian saving lost souls. It's how I approach my more complacent friends and family. Some of them smack me down immediately and say stupid carp like, "I see that sort of thing is very important to you." At which put I will shrug my shoulders and agree. No point in going further with a response like that.

When TSHTF, they'll have to learn the hard way. My more intelligent, thinking friends and family have come to be able to discuss the various sides and aspects of political and world happenings, and it's made our relationships more interesting, discussions more spirited, and a good learning process for everyone who gets involved. We don't always agree. We don't always have to. And that's a great thing.

But on how do we get beyond or around the government as asked in the OP? I always advocate starving the beast. They can't grow if you don't provide them what they need and crave. When I don't agree with how government spends my tax dollars, I work to minimize my tax burden, within the confines of law of course. But it's doable, and makes me feel like I have some power. You dollars are power to them. Starve them of dollars and you starve them of power.

There are certain members of religious groups who do this. I've known some whose particular beliefs are 100% against certain actions of the government, so they'll withhold their share of the tax burden that goes to pay for that particular governmental program (calculated out percentage-wise), but pay their share for what programs they support.

They know it's illegal, but are willing to pay the price if they're caught. In the meantime, they benefit by living within the principles of their spiritual beliefs which is always a good thing, and they're exercising their own personal power of choice. I can't think of a better way to protest that truly gets results.

Every sort of activism has a price tag. One simply needs to make up their minds the outcome is worth paying the price.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

The gov has been buying on credit for so long that they think it's normal. Most of the public has adopted the same attitude. When the credit cards dry up, people will start to feel the pinch. 

Sometimes they get lucky and find a new credit card to issue more credit. That's where the country is right now. Congress is in search of a new credit card cause the old ones are all maxed out. If they can't get a new credit card they'll start counterfeiting greenbacks. When the market gets saturated with the counterfeited greenbacks, nobody will want them anymore (hyperinflation). 

When hyperinflation hits, congcritters will do one of two things... either hop a jet and run, or set in dumb disbelief scratching their heads wondering what happened. There are a few (Ron Paul & a couple others) who have seen this coming for a very long time. They've tried to warn the public, but TPTB have pointed at them making fun of them, calling them crazies, and the public has believed the lies. That's why the public goes along like sheep to the slaughter. 

The gov can't continue to run on credit any more than an individual can. The problem is that the critters in deecee haven't figured that out yet, and neither have a lot of people. 

I've almost lost hope that the people will wakeup and see what's happening. TPTB will toss a few crumbs in the stimulus packages and the public will be happy to snack while their world disintegrates around them. They are well trained sheep. I know exactly how well trained they are... I used to be one of them.


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## Razorback21 (May 13, 2003)

I'm just going to throw this out there....what happens if unemployment (the govt version) hits 12% or higher. Would that start the masses to revolt? Or would it take one of the state governments to default on their UE benefits, Medicaid, and State Employee paychecks? I guess what I'm asking is, what is going to be the tipping point?


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Razorback21 said:


> I'm just going to throw this out there....what happens if unemployment (the govt version) hits 12% or higher. Would that start the masses to revolt? Or would it take one of the state governments to default on their UE benefits, Medicaid, and State Employee paychecks? I guess what I'm asking is, what is going to be the tipping point?


I'd think you've probably hit on what it would take. No job, no savings, no house, nothing to lose. What difference does it make at that point? The fewer they let fall into this category, the safer they are in their own homes.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Razorback21 said:


> I guess what I'm asking is, what is going to be the tipping point?


As sad as it may seem I honestly think it's a matter of popular culture. As soon as the hushed whispers and grumbling under the breath of the common citizen turns into a chorus of shouts the tides will turn.

It takes soccer Moms to speak out to one another in frustration
It takes lunch times at the factory of workers afraid to lose their jobs looking around at fewer co workers
It takes people nodding their heads in agreement at a grocery store shopping line.
It takes church sermons to try and comfort people who have nothing left but fading hopes

It takes a country of hurt people all on the same page.

When the momentum of that starts the end game will be unstopable. I've heard a lot of polite protest all over the place. Only a matter of time before the politeness fades away. IMHO the die has been cast, now just sit back and watch. Those of us who are awake don't even have to participate. In the end the same quiet sheep will fight and win the battle without us in true tsunami style.


I'm prepping with a surf board and lawn chair for the beach. The people watching will be primo.:cowboy:


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Popcorn.

Need to grow some popcorn this year.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Ernie said:


> I used to have a little hope, but then I started participating in the general chat and politics section of HomesteadingToday. If homesteaders don't believe in libery and endorse socialism, then I can't imagine that Joe and Jane Suburbia are going to man the barricades with me. Over the course of the past week I've been called a traitor, an idiot, and a drug-crazed hippy, in various wordings. That's for repeating what our founding fathers said.
> 
> That's what I get for reading the old school Radicals like John Taylor and Patrick Henry.


Wow, Ernie! I avoid GC for just that reason, but that's bad! I don't know if you've ever checked out the Tree of Liberty forum, but I think you would fit in well there! http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=8

Kathleen


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Yeah, I'm about done beating my head against that particular wall. Really, it's not just that they disagree with me, but also with the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, everything the founding fathers ever wrote, and the entire premise our country is founded upon.

America is dead. If even the so-called self-reliant people don't argue for liberty, then what chance do we have?

Find a mountain fastness and secure it for yourself and your family. Keep your head down and hope our sons and daughters win the fight for freedom that this cowardly generation has left for them.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

I'm in total agreement. Most are homesteader and self reliant in name only. But forums like this are useful, people read and constantly cast off chains. Everyone at their own pace.


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## The Tin Mom (Dec 30, 2008)

Razorback21 said:


> I just can't believe how much has changed in 14 months!!!!! It is incredible to think we are on the verge of nationalizing some of our banks. And Ernie's right, we Americans are more concerned with who's getting kicked off Survivor or who the next American Idol is gonna be. I've always considered my thought process and values different than others around me here, but I've never felt it more than right now.
> 
> Sitting around today talking to some friends of mine after work, one of them asked if I was still growing everything I eat. I answered yes, and he goes, "You know, McDonalds is open until Midnight!!!! Some folks won't get it until it slaps them square across the face.


Once again, you are right on!


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## The Tin Mom (Dec 30, 2008)

Ernie said:


> Yeah, I'm about done beating my head against that particular wall. Really, it's not just that they disagree with me, but also with the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, everything the founding fathers ever wrote, and the entire premise our country is founded upon.
> 
> America is dead. If even the so-called self-reliant people don't argue for liberty, then what chance do we have?
> 
> Find a mountain fastness and secure it for yourself and your family. Keep your head down and hope our sons and daughters win the fight for freedom that this cowardly generation has left for them.


I hope you are wrong, but I am afraid you are right.


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## adenblue (Apr 12, 2008)

Ernie is right when he said America is dead. What the founders feared has come to pass. We the people were given the chance to govern ourselves, and we flubbed it. 

I am unable to summon either hope or anger anymore over what happens in my government. I could write letters, complain to my neighbors, vote for the other guy, or watch American Idol and it would make zero difference. 

Once upon a time I cared and was ready to fight for my rights. Now I am as guilty as the rest of the âsheepâ of laziness and indifference and no doubt someday I will pay very real and personal consequences for it.


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

It seems that there is nothing left to save the country. When I was a little girl,back in the 80's, everywhere you looked you saw patriotism. Now I'm hard pressed to see even a single flag on a house, or those bumperstickers that say "Proud to be an American". It makes me sad to know that we have travelled so far downhill in the past 20 years or so.


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## palani (Jun 12, 2005)

Government is a fiction. 'nough said.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

mnn2501 said:


> took out the quoted deleted part, and the politically specific part.}
> 
> And, like Ernie, I'm not a republican either. I'm a Democrat. Of course, there is only a faint corpse of the Democrat Party still in existence. There's a Republican Party (on life support currently, but I think shall be resurrected) and a Socialist Party... and this leaves me out in the wastelands politically.
> 
> imho, there are only two parties... ruralists and metropolitanists...


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

texican said:


> imho, there are only two parties... ruralists and metropolitanists...


And those are the glasses you have choosen to see life through, but there are endless supplies of glasses that different people look through. Right now however we should all be looking through 'American' glasses and trying to figure out what is best for the nation as a whole, and not just llooking through the 'help me' glasses or the 'leave me alone' glasses.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I suggest that those who are seeing things in different ways are simply wrong. 

The founding fathers divided up the country into two parts as well, the agrarian and the industrialist. They believed the strength and wealth of the nation rested on the back of the agrarian. To impoverish the agrarians is to weaken the will and moral fiber of the nation, so John Taylor wrote, to the point where they will no longer be able to resist the pull of despotism which is the desire of every government. 

As for the "leave me alone" phrase. It's obvious to even the most self-reliant of us that we cannot be left alone. Case in point, your spotting of a post which might have something negative to say about Obama and your visit to our forum to deride us. 

The forces of facism and tyranny, of which your kind is but a common foot soldier and ignorant of the greater plan, will never leave us alone. Our determination to remain armed and self-sufficient disturbs their statist sleep and is a constant worry whispered into their ear. That worry whispers over and over one word: "revolution". They must seek us out and eradicate us, or harness us to the system where we shall draw wages and forever be dependent upon them.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

So much blame to go around and so much frustration at such unfairness. What would we tell our squabbling children who make such claims about each other? "I don't care who started it, stop being part of the problem and get your part of it cleaned up, and I mean NOW!"

A long time ago I read a novel called Rising Sun (I keep thinking that Benchley was the author, but could that be right?). There was a lot about Japanese management theory in the book, plus lots of vulgar and gratuitous violence, so I wouldn't really recommend it, but one thing in it stuck with me. The author said that the Japanese philosophy was to fix the problem, not the blame, whereas the American tendency was was to fix the blame, not the problem. I see a great deal of truth about that statement in modern day America. We are very quick to point an accusing finger but so slow to look at what part we each played in the problem (Why did we ever let the politicians do the things they did? Why did we stand for the banks' lending practices? Why did so many of us live beyond our means?) And even slower to work hard at seeking solutions instead of fixing blame. Trying to figure out who was to blame is fireside conversation at best. By that I mean reserved for late at night, after all the chores and every constructive thing that can be done for that day has been done. Then we can sit around and focus what little energy we have left on deciding who is to blame. But to waste our prime mental energy on this day in and day out is just not productive.

What would happen if we did figure out who is responsible, who started all this mess? Can the evil genie be stuffed back into the bottle? I don't think so. It is too late to undo what is now done. And even if I somehow miraculously was able to figure out exactly who was to blame, who would believe me? Everyone has their pet theories, their own set of chosen monsters to vilify. What punishment would be good enough for the originators of the crisis, if we were able to name them? Taking away their power and position would give a few a bit of satisfaction for a little while, but (as Granny used to say) that won't get the 'taters hoed. But I assume most of those who created the problem have so many other entanglements that to punish them would result in punishing ourselves even more, so that wouldn't be productive either. (Possibly a bit satisfying to see a smidgen of justice done, but not productive in the long run.)

In response to the op of how can we get beyond the government and survive what has been wrought, all that I have in my power is to make sure that my family is still living by Biblical principles of sound financial management. I will continue to strive to make the best choices I can. I will make my concerns known to my elected officials and vote for those who have the courage to make tough decisions based on what is best for our country. It's just not fair, but enough with the whining. Now it's time for me to be sure I am doing my part to not compound the mess and to be supportive of those who are in a position to clean it up. 

If it is so far gone that it can't be fixed and crashes even worse than it already has, then we will do what we have to--become more self sufficient than we already are and move on with life as best as we can. But I feel very strongly that encountering more debt on a personal or national basis is only throwing bad money after good and that making more mistakes will not fix the problem. Hang on, I think we are in for a bumpy ride.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

mnn2501 said:


> Took out deleted post that belonged in Political/GC forum



Not true..most who are the most concerned in my circle have no party affiliation like me.. most are a mix between libertarian/constituionalist...a hybrid party of sorts.. we who will fight for neither republican nor dem.. but for an America that is struggling to remain true to its roots..one who is on life support and in desperate need of a few patriots who care enough to stop this spread of socialism.. that is how I prepare...I plan to fight this "change"..survive or not.. I am 47..I have done what I was put here to do..I have given this world 4 lovely, productive, free thinking, liberty loving young adults who are in the process of producing their own little liberty loving cuties... so to be honest I cannot afford to bow out of this fight...So I am preparing to fight and survive or not..so be it.


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## smurfhuts (Sep 5, 2008)

It still amazes me how many seemingly intelligent people still buy into all of the R vs D carp. R vs D is just a long running dog and pony show. There is a small handful of people who are the puppeteers, and yes, they do pull ALL of the strings. They know it is in their best interest to keep us a people divided. If the American people ever joined up on the same side, their uncontested power would be in jeopardy. We can never have that happen. Bipatisanship is counterproductive to them and everything they strive for.


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## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

smurfhuts said:


> It still amazes me how many seemingly intelligent people still buy into all of the R vs D carp. R vs D is just a long running dog and pony show. There is a small handful of people who are the puppeteers, and yes, they do pull ALL of the strings. They know it is in their best interest to keep us a people divided. If the American people ever joined up on the same side, their uncontested power would be in jeopardy. We can never have that happen. Bipatisanship is counterproductive to them and everything they strive for.


I totally agree with this...there is little difference in either...reality is its we the people against tyranny...what do we do to survive...do we form a more perfect union...do we dissolve the nation and create social states of like interests...do we just hunker down and wait out this coming inevitability...as ernie says I hope our children have the courage to fight for our survival only a small group in this generation are even aware of the coming doom......All I can say from a SE&P stand point is get your preps ready...if your ready...rotate...if your not get there in a hurry....god Bless America the ideal our founders had not the government.....good luck all...


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Hintonlady, I love your sense of humour!! No matter the topic!

Yes, GC can leave one frustrated and ugly. I fear some are leaking over here as I have seen some really snarky comments on posts. I don't like the politics that seem to be surfacing here so much yet government is such a part of our lives, whether we like it or not.

Smurfhuts, that is very close to what I said to my dh the other day. Some days he agrees, most he doesn't. Blame, it doesn' seem to be productive in a marriage or family. Most of the time the instigator doesn't accept the blame and so frustration and anger are the results. On the rare occaision one does accept blame, peace can come more readily but it seems rare. In the situation we all seem to be in now, blame is very complicated and depending on how far back one goes in history it can be placed at many different points. True, to stop making mistakes one has to know the history but blame may be a point we fruitlessly debate. The situation we are now in, in my opinion is beyond blame, we have to deal with it and deal with it as best as can. I think by being here we are making an effort to learn how to deal with issues many of us have never seen in our lives before.


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## blessedx5 (Jul 9, 2008)

Win07_351 said:


> When aprox. 51% of the population is receiving some kind of a gov. check and another 1 in 242 are in prision (aprox.) I wouldn't expect things to get much better anytime soon.
> 
> But I sure hope I'm wrong.


51%??!!!!! 

Do you have a source for this info? I mentioned this to my DH, he doesn't think it's possible... and, if true, makes me fear even more for the future of this country. If there are currently 51% received a govt check, you can bet that that number is increasing rapidly, and the slipery slope toward socialism is set.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

blessedx5 said:


> 51%??!!!!!
> 
> Do you have a source for this info? I mentioned this to my DH, he doesn't think it's possible... and, if true, makes me fear even more for the future of this country. If there are currently 51% received a govt check, you can bet that that number is increasing rapidly, and the slipery slope toward socialism is set.


Maybe that number includes government employees, not dependents.


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## palani (Jun 12, 2005)

The figure may be closer to 100%. It includes anyone who reports public information on a 1040 form under penalty of perjury.

Exactly who did you think you were working for?

Why would your raises come in the form of a stimulus check?


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

ovsfarm... 
I don't rightly know how to verbalize my feelings, but here's a stab at it... If we did find out who to blame, who was part of the problem... the thing we should do is..................................... Stop taking their advice!

The old saw about if you find yourself in a hole, the thing to do is stop digging.

Both parties are responsible... I'm sure there all good people, that think they're doing good. "No man knowingly does evil" can't remember who said this.

Unfortunately, No One wants to take their medicine. Every body wants it sugar coated. The cure to the problem is to cut out the gangrenous flesh, so that the good flesh can survive. Everyone that gambled and lost, should lose. Unfortunately, it's just the opposite, the gamblers win, and the abstainers pay.

Well, they can take some more of my hard earned cash... I'm spending the rest on beans, bullets, and bandaids. Speaking of which, I have to go to town today and pay my school taxes. Afterwards I'm off to the county seat to add another month's worth of 'store goods' to my preps. There's a sale on canned vegetables, tuna fish, and other goods. And making a stop by the local gun dealers store, to have him fax his ffl to some parties for some AR lowers (for only 125 each).


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## Sam_Luna (Nov 16, 2008)

Ernie said:


> Find a mountain fastness and secure it for yourself and your family. Keep your head down and hope our sons and daughters win the fight for freedom that this cowardly generation has left for them.


Well said Ernie, Very well said.

Sam


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

blessedx5 said:


> 51%??!!!!!
> 
> Do you have a source for this info? I mentioned this to my DH, he doesn't think it's possible... and, if true, makes me fear even more for the future of this country. If there are currently 51% received a govt check, you can bet that that number is increasing rapidly, and the slipery slope toward socialism is set.


I don't believe 51% directly get a gov't check. however, i recall reading about a survey or analysis that said the majority of americans make the majority of their income from the gov't. as I understood it, someone who works for a private company that sells computers, but works for the division that sells to fed, state, and local gov't, would qualify for getting the majority of their income from the gov't, altho they don't get a gov't check. If someone is a tax accountant, I don't know whether they would be considered getting most of their money from the gov't or not, but the case could certainly be made that they are dependant on that. Also, a professor at a private university, where the majority of student receive gov't subsidized student loans, might also be considered dependent on gov't for their income. 

i couldn't find that particular survey. however, this source has some pretty good info about the size of gov't spending now vs in prior times:



> http://mwhodges.home.att.net/piechart.htm
> Grandfather Economic Report series
> Government Growth Big-picture Report
> 
> ...


--sgl


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

46%? That's huge. Especially when you consider where that 46% comes from. (The other 54%)


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Yep. I saw a chart a month ago or so that shows that the number of government workers has finally eclipsed manufacturing employees.

Government on Miracle Grow.


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## blessedx5 (Jul 9, 2008)

palani said:


> The figure may be closer to 100%. It includes anyone who reports public information on a 1040 form under penalty of perjury.
> 
> Exactly who did you think you were working for?
> 
> Why would your raises come in the form of a stimulus check?


I'm calling BS. Getting MY own money back from the government who took it from me in the first place IS NOT receiving a govt check.

As for the 'stimulus' checks... what the heck is that? Bribe money... Buying votes?


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## blessedx5 (Jul 9, 2008)

sgl42 said:


> i couldn't find that particular survey. however, this source has some pretty good info about the size of gov't spending now vs in prior times:
> 
> 
> 
> --sgl


Thanks for the chart -- I'm sharing this with DH. 

46% is crazy...


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## blessedx5 (Jul 9, 2008)

Ernie said:


> 46%? That's huge. Especially when you consider where that 46% comes from. (The other 54%)


Exactly. :doh:

I like the quote...

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually,
run out of other people's money?"


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Change starts at the local level. Get together a group of TRUSTED like minded people, organize and grow, come to the aid of one another when need be. Remain quiet until you get a large number, then start by changing your Commissioners, Aldermen and Mayors. Then go after the Governor, Represenatives and Congressmen.
I wish my State elected officials thought the same way as those in New hampshire.


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## palani (Jun 12, 2005)

blessedx5 said:


> Getting MY own money back from the government who took it from me in the first place IS NOT receiving a govt check.


Actual money has been publicly outlawed since 1933 but Henry has it right:

"I am not interested in money but in the things of which money is the symbol." [Henry Ford]


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## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

MOre to the point...the growing government leaves little room for us...NAIS, FIrearms infringements, Loss of civil and other rights seem to corner us of the homesteading and surival mindset...How did we ever get here...Most on here are well ahead of the vast majority of this country when it comes to preparededness and awareness.,..Some things I suggest we simply have to survive as all governments are not self sustaining...in other words its time to hunker down and let it roll...


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## wvstuck (Sep 19, 2008)

There is no way to survive without change. When the Government grows too much and we are all hunkered down on "our" property we can loose it all overnight. ( A huge increase in property taxes can dislodge you in a minute) If the Government is allowed to continue its current growth and obvious push toward socialism without people like us putting in huge speed bumps everywhere.... guess what? Game over. When we become less and less mainstream, we are expendable. Do you really think you could garner enough support to stop NAIS? Do you think the large majority of this country cares about a little fight over some silly little guy wanting the right to keep his chickens... No your chickens are going to make little kids in your neighborhood sick, they saw the whole thing on 20/20 (hypothetically) 80% or more of this country is worried about not getting a new big screen, or a bigger house, or having to drive an electric car.. They are off fighting for "real" problems with "their" lives and don't have a clue or a care about "our" silly fight over our little farms. They think we should go to the grocery store and eat like they do... Who cares if all the livestock in this country were to be killed, DUH! You just go get it at the store (not knowing where it comes from, keeps you blinded as to what you are fighting for). 

Just one example how we are outnumbered and the gurus in charge know it.

A year ago I reinvested all my money in Precious Metals and I bought heavily in the stock market... I am getting returns on my stock right now and living high on the hog.

Of course my Precious Metals were Brass, Lead and Copper, and the Stock Market I attend is in a Rural county and they have had some great deals on Beef, Goats and other "live" STOCK. 

Sorry, there is so much to say that I would need to write a book about it to tell you what I'm angry about, how I feel and what it takes to fix it. In closing, for now....

I was born a Free Thinking American with a second amendment right, I swore an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America(not the Government) Against all enemies, foreign and domestic... And I promise you.. I will die a free thinking American with a second amendment right. It has yet been determined whether old age or some other act of violence will take me.. But I go with God either way!


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

wvstuck said:


> Do you really think you could garner enough support to stop NAIS? Do you think the large majority of this country cares about a little fight over some silly little guy wanting the right to keep his chickens...


In Missouri we did, law on the books now states no NAIS.
It all starts at the state level.


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## wvstuck (Sep 19, 2008)

WolfWalksSoftly said:


> In Missouri we did, law on the books now states no NAIS.
> It all starts at the state level.


Good! And I hope your state keeps up the fight, because the Federal Government right now, under the current Administration, Congress and Supreme Court (All Three Branches) believe fully that their power is supreme and the states are required to go along with them. Once this becomes Federal, do you think your state will forgo all federal funding and stand their ground. The big power the feds hold over the states is funding... In closed door meetings they tell the states, if you don't do this... we will withhold Welfare Funds, or Education Funds or Highway Funds...Etc. I hope your State holds its ground, but from what I have seen, they all buckle... That's why individuals have to keep building road blocks. Now would not be the time to let up, don't feel safe because a law was passed, keep up the pressure, things change overnight with a Federal Government acting as power hungry as this one is and has been for the last several years.

To the OP... To get past this Government, we must march through it!


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

What most are alluding to is the issue of prior restraint. The idea of prior restraint was an evil concept to our forefathers and to free people everywhere. In most parts of our life prior restraint is not allowed but it is gaining traction. 

Prior restraint is the concept of applying laws to you when you have done nothing wrong although you might do something wrong. Gun control is prior restraint. All people are punished for the actions of a few. 

Drug laws are another.

More and more of our lives are ruled by rules and regulations built on prior restraint. The Health & Safety NAZIs absolutely adore prior restraint. 

Prior restraint is an evil concept for free people.


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## Possumcat (Oct 2, 2008)

Ernie said:


> I used to have a little hope, but then I started participating in the general chat and politics section of HomesteadingToday. If homesteaders don't believe in libery and endorse socialism, then I can't imagine that Joe and Jane Suburbia are going to man the barricades with me. Over the course of the past week I've been called a traitor, an idiot, and a drug-crazed hippy, in various wordings. That's for repeating what our founding fathers said.
> 
> That's what I get for reading the old school Radicals like John Taylor and Patrick Henry.


I couldn't agree more. I feel powerless....I don't want to JUST sit back and prep for the worst. What exactly can we DO? It's all so frustrating.
--Jenn


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## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

wvstuck said:


> Good! And I hope your state keeps up the fight, because the Federal Government right now, under the current Administration, Congress and Supreme Court (All Three Branches) believe fully that their power is supreme and the states are required to go along with them. Once this becomes Federal, do you think your state will forgo all federal funding and stand their ground. The big power the feds hold over the states is funding... In closed door meetings they tell the states, if you don't do this... we will withhold Welfare Funds, or Education Funds or Highway Funds...Etc. I hope your State holds its ground, but from what I have seen, they all buckle... That's why individuals have to keep building road blocks. Now would not be the time to let up, don't feel safe because a law was passed, keep up the pressure, things change overnight with a Federal Government acting as power hungry as this one is and has been for the last several years.
> 
> *To the OP... To get past this Government, we must march through it![/*QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## blessedx5 (Jul 9, 2008)

wvstuck said:


> There is no way to survive without change. When the Government grows too much and we are all hunkered down on "our" property we can loose it all overnight. ( A huge increase in property taxes can dislodge you in a minute)
> 
> I was born a Free Thinking American with a second amendment right, I swore an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America(not the Government) Against all enemies, foreign and domestic... And I promise you.. I will die a free thinking American with a second amendment right. It has yet been determined whether old age or some other act of violence will take me.. But I go with God either way!


You are right that 'we can lose our property overnight' -- but not through high taxes. 

The US Supreme Courts' 2005 bastardization of the Law of Eminent Domain has got to be changed! Sandra Day O'Connor wrote... "Now, the "specter of condemnation hangs over all property. Nothing is to prevent the State from replacing any Motel 6 with a Ritz-Carlton, any home with a shopping mall, or any farm with a factory."

If you Google news articles about 'abuse of eminent domain' and it's amazing how many cases are currently being fought all over the US. 

Beware - "Redistribution of wealth" includes our land!


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

That was the Kelo v. City of New London decision. 

Ugly implications.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

I just had a thought -- it probably won't happen, but it seems like it *could* work, if the state governments would get on board. If the Fed threatens to remove all federal funding from a state, then the state government could tell it's citizens to pay their income taxes to the state instead of to the IRS. The best way to rein in an out-of-control Fed is to remove their funding. Now I wonder if any state governments have enough gumption to try that remedy???

Kathleen


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

BlueJuniperFarm said:


> I just had a thought -- it probably won't happen, but it seems like it *could* work, if the state governments would get on board. If the Fed threatens to remove all federal funding from a state, then the state government could tell it's citizens to pay their income taxes to the state instead of to the IRS. The best way to rein in an out-of-control Fed is to remove their funding. Now I wonder if any state governments have enough gumption to try that remedy???
> 
> Kathleen


Considering that the states who are threatening not taking the bailout funds receive more from uncle sam than their constituents pay in over all, they'd be shooting themselves in the feet.

One way ticket to third world living, pronto. They'd be voted out next election as conditions in their states would deteriorate rather quickly.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

pickapeppa said:


> Considering that the states who are threatening not taking the bailout funds receive more from uncle sam than their constituents pay in over all, they'd be shooting themselves in the feet.
> 
> One way ticket to third world living, pronto. They'd be voted out next election as conditions in their states would deteriorate rather quickly.


Why would you think that? 

The problem with this bailout funds, and the reason why the states aren't taking it, is because they've been screwed over with unfunded mandates before.

This money is for stuff like "hire 500 new park rangers". It has a lot of money for the training of those park rangers, but no money for their salaries. If the state is already in the red, why would they hire on 500 new park rangers whose salaries they can't pay? That's just one example.

I guarantee you, the states that have decided not to take the money are doing so mostly because they can't afford to take the money. If I came to you and said, "Here's $5000 to buy 50 cows." Would you agree to do that? That's just the money to buy the cows. I didn't provide any money to house them or feed them. Once you get those cows, they will quickly bankrupt you.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Because I was under the impression they were disputing the 'welfare' portions of the money - unemployment, food stamps, etc., and not the 'jobs' portions of the bill.

I haven't been paying very close attention to all the details of this one, honestly. Just picking up bits and pieces. But have seen a pretty good break down of which states get more pork from the federal monies. They just so happen to be the states that are disputing the bail out funds. It's kind of strange.

I'm getting the impression they're just chest pounding, with full intentions of taking every dime .gov hands their way.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Some of them are just chest-pounding, I think. However others have legitimate qualms about it. Don't get confused by the propaganda out there.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I know Gov Bob Riley has said that he will not take part of the stimulus due to after that money runs out for whatever job it was, the state would not have enough money to proceed and it would damage AL's economy.

Angie


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Maybe I'm mistaken, but was under the impression the money was temporary for jobs to rebuild infrastructure and to be given to private companies who do the work.

If it's spent properly and on the right projects, is it reasonable to expect it would save the state money over the long run? Say like reducing energy costs by improving state buildings and what not . . .


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

You need to go look at the actual stimulus bill. That's not what it's for.

Here's some examples of what's in it:

"Health Insurance Assistance for the Unemployed Act of 2009&#8217;&#8217;
Will require employers to set aside 35% of an employee's premium in advance to be used to provide health insurance for the laid off worker. The government doesn't give any money here ... it takes it from the employer and holds it in reserve. Just in case the company is going to lay off the worker. And we all know how well the government is at safely holding on to our money for us.

Waxman Energy Amendments
A state will be required to get 40% of its energy from renewable sources by 2010. Doesn't matter if the state actually has access to wind or solar power, and doesn't actually provide any money for them to build their own or buy it from out-of-state. Just mandates that they WILL.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Well, I would agree the two examples posted here sound a little on the unrealistic side. Thanks for posting. I do need to read the actual bill, but it's what, 1000 pages long? Um, that's not going to be happening this week. 

Being that it was an emergency measure, I'm sure there will be parts of it that weren't thought through well enough. Maybe they should have attacked this one step at a time. I know the market dropped and all that after this was past, but if it hadn't passed it could have dropped even more. Not that I really care much about what wall street does at this point in response to government actions. They've laid their bed, so to speak, as far as I'm concerned.

But you just never know what is at the end of the road not taken.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

It's not really a road not taken, Peppa. Other countries have taken that road before us. We can see where it led them if we like and then choose for ourselves.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Ernie said:


> It's not really a road not taken, Peppa. Other countries have taken that road before us. We can see where it led them if we like and then choose for ourselves.


I'm banking on the fact the people handling this have seen and chosen a better path. Time will tell.

Like Alan says, get prepped and stay prepped.

:bow:


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## smurfhuts (Sep 5, 2008)

Unfortunately ...... the people handling this are the same people that let it happen.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

True. I repeat my warning: Government is no friend of the self-reliant man.

1. Prepare to handle your own problems
2. Become as self-reliant as your life permits
3. Lay low and don't make yourself a target 

I'm still working on #3.


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## mtnest (Mar 11, 2008)

I know in ID a huge amount of this stimulus is being used to do highway and other road repairs etc. Supposedly it will "create 3000 jobs"... um, what happens to those jobs in 5 years (or less) when the projects are done and exactly how does road work stimulate the economy in the state? If it is like many other road projects I've seen, most of the workers will be brought in from elsewhere. Granted, I am still trying to understand how it's all supposed to work so my view is probably very "duh" but I have been reading what I have time to and trying to get a better grasp on what is happening.


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## RVcook (Mar 29, 2008)

Ernie said:


> True. I repeat my warning: Government is no friend of the self-reliant man.
> 
> 1. Prepare to handle your own problems
> 2. Become as self-reliant as your life permits
> ...


No truer words were *EVER* spoken...

RVcook


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## adenblue (Apr 12, 2008)

Just read that AIG is suing the government. To ensure it's not required to pay more than it's fair share of taxes. Is this for real or engineered to make people mad as heck?

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2009/03/02/aig-sues-u-s-over-tax-disupte-talk-about-cajones/


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

adenblue said:


> Just read that AIG is suing the government. To ensure it's not required to pay more than it's fair share of taxes. Is this for real or engineered to make people mad as heck?
> 
> http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2009/03/02/aig-sues-u-s-over-tax-disupte-talk-about-cajones/


Not enough rope.


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