# grey water plumbing



## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

Anyone plumbed a house for grey water only? Do all the traps and vents still serve a useful purpose if there are no sewer or septic fumes to worry about?


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

We have a small setup in a guest cabin that has just a sink and tub draining. We did straight drains with no p traps or vents. I can't speak for the vent issue, but we wish we'd done p traps because the drain pipes themselves still smell. We also get a whiff of the drain pit every so often out there as well. It's not bad as a guest cabin, but we had someone stay there for a month one time and things started to smell a bit. Not bad, but noticeable if you were working in the sink or taking a shower.


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

thermopkt said:


> We have a small setup in a guest cabin that has just a sink and tub draining. We did straight drains with no p traps or vents. I can't speak for the vent issue, but we wish we'd done p traps because the drain pipes themselves still smell. We also get a whiff of the drain pit every so often out there as well. It's not bad as a guest cabin, but we had someone stay there for a month one time and things started to smell a bit. Not bad, but noticeable if you were working in the sink or taking a shower.


That makes sense, Thermopkt. Good point. I've opened enough pipes to know that they get nasty coated. Can I ask what your drain pit sysem is? Did you literally just dig a hole and the water runs into it and drains into the ground as it's able? I'm guessing, if I put the traps in I'd probably need to put the vents in as well to keep them from being sucked dry as volumes of water go through but I'd be curious to hear if anyone with a little more actual plumbing experience wanted to comment on that.

Also, is your handle a reference to the thermocouple types? Why those three?


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

BohemianWaxwing said:


> That makes sense, Thermopkt. Good point. I've opened enough pipes to know that they get nasty coated. Can I ask what your drain pit sysem is? Did you literally just dig a hole and the water runs into it and drains into the ground as it's able? I'm guessing, if I put the traps in I'd probably need to put the vents in as well to keep them from being sucked dry as volumes of water go through but I'd be curious to hear if anyone with a little more actual plumbing experience wanted to comment on that.
> 
> Also, is your handle a reference to the thermocouple types? Why those three?



Our pit is a hole in the ground that is filled with sawdust. We have very sand soil so I don't know if this would be enough in more clay type soils. Probably depends on how much water is going into it, your climate, etc. We're pretty dry here. You are going to definitely want some sort of mulch in the pit if that's the route you go. Otherwise it gets to smelling quite nasty! If you go with the grey water being routed through pipes in ground to various plants, I'd probably still at least put mulch on there for the same reason, but it probably wouldn't be as bad.

My username actually came from the town where I used to live. Thermopolis, Wy plus initials. So original, I know. :ashamed:


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

That makes more sense on your handle. 

I have put a fair amount of research into what happens to the water after it leaves the house and am pretty happy with what I'm coming up with, although it will probably wind up costing as much as a septic system would cost. It won't seem as "wastefull" somehow.


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## NorthwoodsMike (Jun 10, 2013)

You will want traps just to keep any smell in them down, and also vents, or the siphon effect could pull the water out of the the trap. We have a grey water "pit" for our laundry at our cottage. We have sandy soil, so we dug a pit and filled it with gravel. The top of the pit is open to the air, and the water drains onto the gravel. If the pit doesn't drain fast enough, the water just runs along the ground. Never any smell, or loss of foliage.

Honestly, if I had sandy soil I would just run it on the surface. I would only be weary if it could contaminate another water source, like a creek or pond.


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

NorthwoodsMike said:


> We have a grey water "pit" for our laundry at our cottage. We have sandy soil, so we dug a pit and filled it with gravel. The top of the pit is open to the air, and the water drains onto the gravel. If the pit doesn't drain fast enough, the water just runs along the ground. Never any smell, or loss of foliage.


What would you estimate the dimensions of the pit are for just that laundry room?

ETA: Is the rest of the cottage on a septic tank?


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## NorthwoodsMike (Jun 10, 2013)

Not quite big enough  

We have an apartment size washer, and the pit is about the size of two 5 gallon buckets stacked on each other, and filled with 3/4 inch gravel. It fills to capacity after the wash water is drained from the machine. The rinse water usually runs on the ground. It's been this way for years, and plants grow there without issue.

It probably would have enough space if I didn't have the gravel in there, but then I would need a cover to prevent a cave-in.

You could always do a smaller version of this:
http://www.wikihow.com/Construct-a-Small-Septic-System


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

I would suggest traps and vents of some type, you never know when the government building snoops will come and demand a complete septic system and if you have then in the picture, a few more bucks meeting current pluming code, for in the house piping, could save one big dollars at a later date, now if some of it did not get plumbed in to the septic system then I do not know what happened,

for most of the life of this farm the washing machine just ran out on the grass,

In our county the septic system is closely monitored, 
a local back hoe guy was telling my SIL that ever time he goes in to file a permit they at the office knows who he is going to file a permit for 90% of the time, and the back hoe guy has yet to figure out where there getting there information.
(he does not know if the road crews (road grader operators) are keeping tabs on things or what).

what I am saying is big brother may be watching, 

my septic is grand fathered in but if I up grade I am suppose to file a permit and have the health department come out and inspect and approve any changes, and the work done,


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

Thanks, farminghandyman! I doubt that anyone will be checking on my place any time soon in the backwoods of TN where we'll be building, but I do agree that doing things (at least) to code makes good sense in general. 

I'm also pretty confident that I can make a strong case to anyone who was concerned that my grey water system and sawdust toilets are substantially more sanitary than their "to code" septic system.

It looks like the general consensus, though, is in favor of keeping the vents and traps in place so I'll not plan to put up a fight over that.


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## NorthwoodsMike (Jun 10, 2013)

Why not go conventional septic like my link? Some work on the front end for sure, but it saves work later, and is very convenient.

From what I understand, one bout of gastrointestinal fireworks leads to a very strong desire for a regular system.


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

I grew up in a third world country with open sewers in the streets. I think my GI tract has been to every show.  

I'm a firm believer in the effectiveness of a well managed grey water system and a composted poo pile. 

I also hate to see all those nutrients wasted.


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## kycrawler (Sep 18, 2011)

our new house has most of the gray water separate I put in a 1000 gal septic tank and 200 ft of infiltrator chambers the 2 toilets kitchen sink and my shower run into that tank . for gray water I installed a 275 gal tank and put in a 120 ft of rock and pipe drainfield the washer the kids shower and the lavatory sinks run into this system . the only reason I put a tank in the gray water system is Missouri law requires all household water to go to a septic tank


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

kycrawler said:


> our new house has most of the gray water separate I put in a 1000 gal septic tank and 200 ft of infiltrator chambers the 2 toilets kitchen sink and my shower run into that tank . for gray water I installed a 275 gal tank and put in a 120 ft of rock and pipe drainfield the washer the kids shower and the lavatory sinks run into this system . the only reason I put a tank in the gray water system is Missouri law requires all household water to go to a septic tank


So the grey water just leaches into the gravel trench after it over flows the tank? Any mulch or plants on top of that? Have you noticed any smell? Killed grass? Do you use only certain kinds of laundry soap?


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## manfred (Dec 21, 2005)

Our washing machine water just runs out on the yard,has for about 15 years now. Various kinds of laundry soaps. 
Grass is doing good there as well as two huge redoak trees, thay seem to thrive there.


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## kycrawler (Sep 18, 2011)

No smell yes the water just leeches in the trench I can divert it to the garden later if I want to . No special detergent we use a diy soap from borax fells naphtha and arm and hammer washing soda. Lots cheaper than store detergent
only thing on the trench is grass 

My main reason for the gray water system was to keep the large volume of shower water and laundry water and lint out of the septic system


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2014)

I have been toying with the idea of running our washing machine out to the garden. We are so drought-striken, it just kills me to waste so much grey water - and then turn around and have to water the garden with fresh tap water. 

I have thought about the big blue rolled rubbery hose that one uses to flush a swimming pool filter. Just unroll it and let it fill the trenches through the garden plot...


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## susanneb (Feb 17, 2005)

Times are changing. We are building a small house on our property with an existing septic system and had to have an inspection to get our building permit. While the county sanitation person was out, I asked about grey water systems. The state of Oregon is very encouraging of anyone wanting to do this, and they have a wealth of information for both new and existing systems. Their preference is a valve that diverts grey water before it meets up with black water. This way one can send it to the septic in winter, but collect or use it in warmer months. 

Of course, you can still run a separate line from the laundry and sinks, but it's good to know our over-regulated county supports this.


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

TraciInTexas said:


> I have been toying with the idea of running our washing machine out to the garden. We are so drought-striken, it just kills me to waste so much grey water - and then turn around and have to water the garden with fresh tap water.
> 
> I have thought about the big blue rolled rubbery hose that one uses to flush a swimming pool filter. Just unroll it and let it fill the trenches through the garden plot...


Don't those blue hoses have lots of ridges on the inside? Those might catch and hold sediment and stale water.

This guy's site is great! Check out the "Gravity Drum" excerpt from his book: http://oasisdesign.net/greywater/createanoasis/ It's basically what you're suggesting and he says it's the best method available if your topography allows for it.

He preaches that simple is best for grey water. I love simple!


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

susanneb said:


> Times are changing.


I surely hope so! Where we're planning to build in TN it's supposed to be pretty laid back, but we're going to be using a conctractor so we will need SOME kind of coverage permits wise.


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## Tyler520 (Aug 12, 2011)

Depending on your water situation and climate, another worthwhile consideration (for everyone considering greywater, in general) is to install a reservoir to collect it, rather than daylighting the end of the line, and letting it flow into a french drain or swale - it can be stand-alone, or coupled with a roof harvesting system. You can then use the water for landscape watering as needed, or on a schedule.


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

Tyler520 said:


> Depending on your water situation and climate, another worthwhile consideration (for everyone considering greywater, in general) is to install a reservoir to collect it, rather than daylighting the end of the line, and letting it flow into a french drain or swale - it can be stand-alone, or coupled with a roof harvesting system. You can then use the water for landscape watering as needed, or on a schedule.


Hmmm. Can't say I'd recommend this. Stored grey water very quickly becomes black water. It needs to be extensively filtered to be safe to store for any length of time and that filtering process can't be done efficiently in most situations.


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## Tyler520 (Aug 12, 2011)

BohemianWaxwing said:


> Hmmm. Can't say I'd recommend this. Stored grey water very quickly becomes black water. It needs to be extensively filtered to be safe to store for any length of time and that filtering process can't be done efficiently in most situations.


I guess it depends on your source - we may have different interpretations of what constitutes 'grey water.' 

I would never hook up anything other than washing machine, shower and bathroom sink to a greywater system, even if directly drained to the landscape. the particulates and other contents from these sources would be no worse than stored roof runoff.

Also, you can use enzyme treatments as a precaution.


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

I suppose it does make a difference what your grey water looks like. I know some of the earlier posters in this thread have mentioned smell issues even with just washing machines draining into pits.

If you're able to get grey water storage to work for you, though, that's great. It sure would be nice to be able to "save" it for when it would be most useful.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

We have a small septic for the toilet, all the rest goes out a 1" pipe drain pipe to a grey water system. There is a small filter chamber that has a strainer that gets pulled once a month. Pipe goes into the top of a pea gravel filter (pipe has holes inside and capped as a distribution manifold). Filter is a 3' long piece of 36" corrugated culvert pipe on end with cover and vent. Water drains down through gravel and exits at the bottom through a 1" pipe to a small swale that also collects the runoff from the buildings. 
We only have a small dash type washing machine (3 gal), a rinse tub, bathroom sink, kitchen sink, dish pan and the shower. No bad smell at outlet pipe at swale....James


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

jwal10 said:


> We have a small septic for the toilet, all the rest goes out a 1" pipe drain pipe to a grey water system. There is a small filter chamber that has a strainer that gets pulled once a month. Pipe goes into the top of a pea gravel filter (pipe has holes inside and capped as a distribution manifold). Filter is a 3' long piece of 36" corrugated culvert pipe on end with cover and vent. Water drains down through gravel and exits at the bottom through a 1" pipe to a small swale that also collects the runoff from the buildings.
> We only have a small dash type washing machine (3 gal), a rinse tub, bathroom sink, kitchen sink, dish pan and the shower. No bad smell at outlet pipe at swale....James


That sounds a lot like what I'm after. Can you elaborate a little on the "filter chamber"? Is it just a screen? Do you seperate oils and fats there? Do you find that necessary with the kitchen sink going to it? How did you seal the "bottom" of the culvert? Or do you let drain into the soil whatever doesn't leave through the pipe? 

Do you get enough drainage to the swale to have to worry about what kind of plants will grow there? Does it stay boggy even between rains?

This is pretty close to my ideal: http://www.appropedia.org/The_Bottoms_wildlife_pond_greywater_plumbing although the DW and I both care a lot about how things look as well as how they function so I'd probably invest a little more cash up front to make the reed bed and pond more kempt.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpy14I8fygk[/ame]

Mine is a regular 5 gallon paint bucket with 1 basket and plumbed inside so water level is always above the outlet pipe as shown above.

A pad of concrete 3" thick in bottom of hole, culvert pushed into it makes the bottom. Plastic lid used for septic tank riser, has screws to lock. Water goes to swale. Swale has a wooden baffle as shown in your link then I put 2 bales of barley straw across stream to make V to make the "dam", water seeps through straw into the pond. There are some plants around the edge, native, a few cattails. Downspout water goes into pond also, after swale, then flows to our pond overflow drainage creek....James


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

How would you make something like that work where the winters are a bit chillish?


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Mine is in a buried 55 gallon plastic barrel, kind of like this but our outlet pipe goes right into the gravel filter. DSs is the same corrugated pipe as the gravel filter. Back when I did ours I was cheap....James

http://www.beeshive.org/wp-content/uploads/grey-water-filtration.png


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## Scomber (Jan 30, 2005)

I started another thread to think about winter issues. I wish I'd seen this one first.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

When I set up our system the only thing going through the septic tank are the camodes, everything else bypasses the tank and goes into the drain fields. I didn't want all the antibacterial soaps and cleansers interfering with the lil critters that live in the tank breaking down the solids.


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

Gray water is still sewage - just missing the human components As such it will eventually smell and you will need to have traps.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Re-using "grey water" for plants and such is fine, but it really is sewage - just weak sewage. If you wash diapers or have rabbit tracks in your shorts, your grey water has been inoculated with all the normal bacteria and organisms in poo. If there are any things they can feed on, like dead skin cells from the shower, food waste from the kitchen sink, even some soaps, you have weak black water. Drain the bulk of the water through the soil and you have real black water and worse.

The idea of using (replaceable) straw as a bio-filter, and possibly a subsequent sand filter make a lot of sense. After such treatment, you have a product more like natural run-off water. That straw will be harboring a LOT of bad organisms though, and wants to be handled with caution, even though you can dispose of it by spreading it out thinly in the sun to dry, or burying it. Personally though, I would treat it as septic tank sludge.


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## Tyler520 (Aug 12, 2011)

there are pellet and liquid disinfection products (or iodine or chlorine or bleach) that you can toss in a graywater storage system to deal with harmful bacteria. the same technology used for rainwater harvesting (just think of all the nasty stuff a roof collects - not really any different). plants are resilient - these chemical treatments won't harm them. 

Most low tech residential systems will also run the water through a sand (sometimes mixed with activated charcoal) filter trap before going on to the sump pump that sends it out to the landscape.

I know one guy who set up a pasteurization tank, too.

at my old offices, we had a massive collection system that combined rain, graywater and condensate - it had a disinfectant chamber that would introduce small amounts into the system to keep it clean - manually cleaning a 3-story, 10 foot diameter harvest tank is just infeasible.

options do exist.

I would also suggest getting in contact with a local architecture college's sustainability program - they will eagerly offer advice


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