# Florida Parents Sue After School Clandestinely Orchestrated Daughter’s Gender Transition



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

> The parents of a Florida teenager have filed a federal civil rights lawsuit after their daughter’s school directed their child to pursue a gender transition without notifying them.
> 
> January and Jeffrey Littlejohn of Tallahassee, Florida, filed the suit in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Florida last month, seeking to “vindicate their fundamental rights to direct the upbringing of their children” after Deerlake Middle School, where their 13-year-old daughter was enrolled, failed to notify them that their daughter had entered a school-sanctioned gender transition plan.
> 
> ...


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Some of the postgame highlights...btw, the girl is 13.

_"January Littlejohn told the Washington Examiner that was the first time she became aware that the school was meeting with her daughter and assisting the teenager in embracing a different gender identity in school settings. 
The school claimed nondiscrimination law barred them from informing the parents about the meeting with their daughter, which occurred on Sept. 8, 2020, unless the child authorized them to be there.

the school district was relying upon the LCS Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Gender Nonconforming and Questioning Support Guide, which expressly directs school administrators to avoid notifying the child’s parents about a child’s gender identity, claiming such an action could lead to the student becoming homeless.

“What the school district did is tantamount to saying children need to be protected from their parents, rather than by their parents,” Broyles said. “This guidance that they had in place and their actions convey the message that parents are presumed to be dangerous to their children.”

she and her husband “tried very hard to resolve this” by repeatedly meeting and communicating with school and district officials and only resorted to a lawsuit as a last resort when the school district refused to rescind the support guide as its primary resource for handling cases of student gender dysphoria._


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

GTX63 said:


> Some of the postgame highlights...btw, the girl is 13.
> 
> _"January Littlejohn told the Washington Examiner that was the first time she became aware that the school was meeting with her daughter and assisting the teenager in embracing a different gender identity in school settings.
> The school claimed nondiscrimination law barred them from informing the parents about the meeting with their daughter, which occurred on Sept. 8, 2020, unless the child authorized them to be there.
> ...





> Public Education is evil because it assumes that parents are too stupid or too lazy to educate their children.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

I think these two quotes from the article perfectly illustrate the issue we’re having with our public schools.

*#1*


> The school claimed nondiscrimination law barred them from informing the parents about the meeting with their daughter, which occurred on Sept. 8, 2020, unless the child authorized them to be there.
> 
> The Littlejohns' attorney, Vernadette Broyles of a nonprofit law firm called the Child and Parental Rights Campaign, said that when the couple asked to see the law the school was relying on, “they could not provide one.”


*#2 *_(bold emphasis mine)_


> The lawsuit says that the school district was relying upon the _*LCS Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Gender Nonconforming and Questioning Support Guide*, _which expressly directs school administrators to avoid notifying the child’s parents about a child’s gender identity, claiming such an action could lead to the student becoming homeless.


The “LCS” in the name of the support guide stands for “Leon County Schools”, meaning the guide was a construct of the school district in question. When first pressed on it, the school claimed “_it’s the law_”, but, when pressed into an actual court of law, the best grounding they could come up with was their own policy and directive.

They think their word is the law. They decide that parents shouldn’t be informed if they’re facilitating a child’s gender delusions, and it magically becomes “the law”. They decide to bring Critical Race Theory into the classroom, rebrand it Culturally Responsive Teaching, and we’re not to dare to question it.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The shrieking banshees have taken over

They talk louder. They never stop pushing. They take over


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Dear God.... my stomach lurched when I read this. 

This is why I retired early from behavioral health. I had parents bringing their kids to me, wanting a referral to the clinic in KC that abuses children by giving them puberty-blocking drugs, and "counseling" (read: indoctrination) to make them something they are not.

When a clinician tells a parent the standard of treatment (birth-gender activities, clothing, etc), they balk. Their child is special, dontcha know, and they want to be supportive and let everyone in the world know what cool parents they are and the child must know better than they because a little child shall lead them or some such nonsense.

It's all part of the plan.


----------



## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Public (university) educators got their claws into my oldest son, but to be fair, he was a willing to follow anything other than parental advice. I trust fully that my continued prayers will eventually prevail.


----------



## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

I think there’s only one possible solution for this. WW2 held lots of lessons for people on how to deal with traitorous behaviour of any kind.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

That this is happening in the US is scary. In the old Soviet Union they feared the Secret Police, in the US people are beginning to fear their School Boards. 

I am so glad I don't have any kids.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Sue ? That is ridiculous, they should be going for jail time.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

This is just sickening, these people should be considered child abusers.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

MichaelZ said:


> Public (university) educators got their claws into my oldest son, but to be fair, he was a willing to follow anything other than parental advice. I trust fully that my continued prayers will eventually prevail.


I'm so sorry, and will add my prayers to yours. 

My son also followed the siren call of the culture, and there are so many "woke" voices telling him that he is right and God is wrong. They are so proud of their woke selves, and that they have a friend who is neither man nor woman.... It seems as though he is lost to us. But we know that nothing is beyond the Father of us all. Keep lifting them up.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Pony said:


> I'm so sorry, and will add my prayers to yours.
> 
> My son also followed the siren call of the culture, and there are so many "woke" voices telling him that he is right and God is wrong. They are so proud of their woke selves, and that they have a friend who is neither man nor woman.... It seems as though he is lost to us. But we know that nothing is beyond the Father of us all. Keep lifting them up.


I have a daughter in the same situation.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

An old Jewish friend of mine had some sort of event for his son when he was a teen of some age. It has been a while but I recall a silver bowl of water was brought into the room, he dipped both hands into it and then raised them up over his hand.
In his audible prayer to God, he was proclaiming his son to be a man; that he was washing his hands of all responsibility and that his work raising him was done.
You do all that you can for 18 years and then let them ride out the bumps for another 10 or so until hopefully, they figure it out.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

HDRider said:


> I have a daughter in the same situation.


Damn.

I am sorry. From the bottom of my heart... it's a horrible, hideous lie they have believed.


----------



## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Michaelz, HD and Pony, are you all suggesting you have kids you 'feel have been led to believe' are gay?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

There is a special on Amazon Prime called "Being Jane" it is a worthwhile watch. It is one child's and her family's journey through being a transgender person.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

painterswife said:


> There is a special on Amazon Prime called "Being Jane" it is a worthwhile watch. It is one child's and her family's journey through being a transgender person.


It is a lie from the pit of hell.

Unless you have been there, I would suggest you not recommend any propaganda "family" fare.



fireweed farm said:


> Michaelz, HD and Pony, are you all suggesting you have kids you 'feel have been led to believe' are gay?


No.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Pony said:


> It is a lie from the pit of hell.
> 
> Unless you have been there, I would suggest you not recommend any propaganda "family" fare.
> 
> ...


LOL, that would mean that unless you are transgender your opinion us irrelevant as well. There is no hell. It was made up by men who want to control others.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> LOL, that would mean that unless you are transgender your opinion us irrelevant as well. There is no hell. It was made up by men who want to control others.


Are you transgender? Do you have kids that are facing this horrible problem? If not, you have no business commenting on it. Pushing a movie that clearly tries to indoctrinat children should be considered child abuse, followed by a very long prison sentence. 
Can you prove there is no hell, or is it just another one of your opinions you'd like to be a fact? Ymmv


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Are you transgender? Do you have kids that are facing this horrible problem? If not, you have no business commenting on it. Pushing a movie that clearly tries to indoctrinat children should be considered child abuse, followed by a very long prison sentence.
> Can you prove there is no hell, or is it just another one of your opinions you'd like to be a fact? Ymmv


That is a very entertaining post.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

When she was 8 or 9 years old, my sister had just found out what happens to a woman during puberty. She wanted to become a boy to avoid all that. She is still female interested in male company.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

I truly wish that I could share the research -- both personal and professional -- that I have done on this. The facts do not lie, but it seems that reality is just too much for the unicorns, skittles, and faerie crowd.

There are too many folk who toe the party line, selling their birthright for a bowl of lentils, people who refuse to dig deeper than Snopes, who do not want to know the truth because the truth would shine a light on the lies people believe.

It has become so much easier to accept perversion and the destruction of the family, than to take a stand. It is easier to parrot what TPTB tell you to say, rather than critically assess what is being said, and to think it through to ask the hard questions about why such an agenda is being pushed. 

No, I won't even try to speak truth to those who have their fingers in their ears, saying "lalalalala" so that they don't have to look at what's going on. 

One does not cast pearls before swine. 

Neither does one attempt to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> That is a very entertaining post.


Glad you thought so.
Couldn't answer the questions? Why not?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Glad you thought so.
> Couldn't answer the questions? Why not?


Why would I bother. You went off on a rant like you contr who can have an opinion on something based on your criteria. That is laughable and entertaining.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Why would I bother. You went off on a rant like you contr who can have an opinion on something based on your criteria. That is laughable and entertaining.


Your rant, not mine.
Just can't answer questions about your own posts...
It IS laughable and entertaining in a very sad and pathetic way. It appears that it's very very hard for you to be truthful and honest. Smh...


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Your rant, not mine.
> Just can't answer questions about your own posts...
> It IS laughable and entertaining in a very sad and pathetic way. It appears that it's very very hard for you to be truthful and honest. Smh...


Choosing not to answer questions in your rants is not the same as not being able to.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Choosing not to answer questions in your rants is not the same as not being able to.


So, your just another useless troll that can't backup what they post....shameful. If your not willing to stand by your own posts, why do it?
Have the day you deserve.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> So, your just another useless troll that can't backup what they post....shameful. If your not willing to stand by your own posts, why do it?
> Have the day you deserve.


 Your opinion is noted. Not based in reality but noted.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Your opinion is noted. Not based in reality but noted.


Not opinion just a fact. You cant do it. What's not real about what i posted? You keep proving your nothing but a troll. You post crap, but won't back it up with the truth. Why does the truth scare you so much? Does the truth hurt that bad?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Not opinion just a fact. You cant do it. What's not real about what i posted? You keep proving your nothing but a troll. You post crap, but won't back it up with the truth. Why does the truth scare you so much? Does the truth hurt that bad?


My truth is not your business. Why does it bother you so much that I don't share it with you? My personal experience with transgender life or family has nothing to do with you.

Calling me names won’t change that.


----------



## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

If the 'school district' did this to my grandpeep, I would reassign the 'school district's' gender. whether they wanted it or not. If that offends anyone, they can kiss my sphincter.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

fireweed farm said:


> Michaelz, HD and Pony, are you all suggesting you have kids you 'feel have been led to believe' are gay?


Whether one does or does not have children affected makes no difference.
There isn't any doubt the society we live in today uses many devices, including lies in order to convince the public they are or aren't something.
A child can be led to believe they are gay the same as they canbe led to believe in the tenants of NXIVM. 
Indoctrination isn't a discriminating word.
Nor is peer pressure.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Pony said:


> It has become so much easier to accept perversion and the destruction of the family, than to take a stand. It is easier to parrot what TPTB tell you to say, rather than critically assess what is being said, and to think it through to ask the hard questions about why such an agenda is being pushed.


In ancient Greece it was common for any man with a little wealth to have a male concubine. They may be 10 or 14 or 16 years old.
There was no law forbidding it, rather it was so common place that it was considered normal. A poor family selling their son into an environment for sex with a grown man. Like slavery, it seems vile now but their culture embraced the idea, so it became ok.
At some point that boy grew into an adult and was no longer considered useful to the man. How normal of a life would you expect that young man to have?
Society says a traditional evil is now good, so it is good.
Our kids need to know they are loved and accepted. That shouldn't be confused with indocrination or pressure to accept what they are not as part of society's experiment.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

painterswife said:


> My truth is not your business. Why does it bother you so much that I don't share it with you? My personal experience with transgender life or family has nothing to do with you.
> 
> Calling me names won’t change that.


I agree. It is your truth and your right to it.


----------



## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

> “He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future.” ― Adolf Hitler


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

fireweed farm said:


> Michaelz, HD and Pony, are you all suggesting you have kids you 'feel have been led to believe' are gay?


No, nothing like that. She does logistics and event planning for Antifa


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Danaus29 said:


> When she was 8 or 9 years old, my sister had just found out what happens to a woman during puberty. She wanted to become a boy to avoid all that. She is still female interested in male company.


My autistic great niece, when she entered puberty (13YO) decided she wanted no part of that and did research and found out she could stop it with a hysterectomy. She was convinced that she wanted the surgery. What if her parents were as blindly stupid as those who support mutilation in the name of gender dysphoria?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GLAAD today unveiled its third annual _Accelerating Acceptance_ report, a survey conducted on GLAAD’s behalf by Harris Poll, which shows that young people are significantly more likely to openly identify as LGBTQ than generations before them. The survey – fielded online November 2-4, 2016.








New GLAAD study reveals twenty percent of millennials identify as LGBTQ


GLAAD today unveiled its third annual Accelerating Acceptance report, a survey conducted on GLAAD’s behalf by Harris Pol




www.glaad.org





In a random sampling of 15,349 American adults conducted last year, nearly one in 6 Gen Z respondents (or 15.9%) said they are queer or transgender. 








Gen Z Is the Queerest Generation Ever, According to New Survey


An unprecedented 15% of Gen Zers are LGBTQ+, according to a new survey.




www.them.us





A relatively small yet revealing study by Arizona Christian University found “millennials” in the United States to be mostly anti-establishment, unpatriotic, pro-freedom of religion, and, perhaps most interestingly, desperately searching for a purpose in life.

Nearly a third of millennials in the United States identify as LGBTQ, a small new study by Arizona Christian University found.








Nearly a third of millennials identify as LGBTQ, new study finds


The study, conducted in August and published last month, surveyed 600 millennials - ages 18 to 37 - in an effort to provide insight into the generation.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Farmerga said:


> My autistic great niece, when she entered puberty (13YO) decided she wanted no part of that and did research and found out she could stop it with a hysterectomy. She was convinced that she wanted the surgery. What if her parents were as blindly stupid as those who support mutilation in the name of gender dysphoria?


One of my kids suffered from very severe Body Dysmorphic Disorder when she was going through puberty, which led to bouts of anorexia because being skeletal for females was the soup du jour at the time. I can only imagine what fresh hell she and we would have gone through had she grown up in today's purposefully confusing to children and teenagers society.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

From within the lawsuit

Her father and I have been supportive since she told us she was having gender identity issues in March and she has been seeing a counselor to help her process her feelings and seek help in understanding what she is going through. My child is not opposed to having a parent involved so what do we need to do moving forward for her father or I to be present at these meetings and be involved in the plans.

Mr. and Mrs. Littlejohn met with Mr. Hanna on December 14, 2020. They informed Mr. Hanna about what had transpired with their daughter at Deerlake Middle School. They provided Mr. Hanna with information regarding Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria, a social contagion phenomenon in which teenagers, particularly young girls who had never expressed confusion about their gender suddenly, like A.G., join with other friends in declaring that they no longer identify as a girl.

Sheesh!
When my youngest was 8 or 9 he asked me if he was gay because it turns out his older brothers would sometimes call him gay.
I told him I didn't think so, chewed the brothers out for picking on him and calling him any names, and that was the end of it.
No counselors, or school involvement. He didn't even know what gay was. 

I have to wonder if he happened to ask his teacher today the same question if the school would have put into motion plans behind our backs.


----------



## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I just can’t understand trying to change in to some thing you are not .
It’s one think to be gay but I don’t understand the reasoning be hind try to change into a man women ? 
And really school age kids just can’t choose at that age it should not even be a conversation 
until they hit there 20s . 
2 of my daughter where thinking they where gay ? 
One is married and happy with her husband , the other 19 , is still deciding , she likes doing man things she was or working with me for 11/2 years thru covid . 
It’s really no ones Business and to try to talk them into it one way or the other and making them choose young makes no sense .
one of my mechanics that is married and had 2 kids flipped a few years ago ? 
One day I brought my truck in for service and he was spinning wrenches in a skirt and pumps Kinda weird. 
He was looking good and had great hair but the beard thru me .


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Do those that want to deny being transgender is real admit that a baby can be born with both sexual organs or none? Do you admit that hormones decide which sex organs you get and if they ever mature?


----------



## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

HDRider said:


> View attachment 102113
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess the homosexuals have been seriously out-breeding the straights.
Oh wait ...........


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Vjk said:


> I guess the homosexuals have been seriously out-breeding the straights.
> Oh wait ...........


Maybe this conversion therapy is an attempt at birth control.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

It’s a good thing that homosexuality isn’t such a taboo as it once was. All the kids who actually are homosexual now have a better chance of getting to be themselves and not have the internal struggles they would have faced with coming out even 20 years ago.

That said, this societal pressure being exerted to make homosexuality celebrated is no more healthy than was the persecution of homosexuals. A kid who experiments with homosexuality because it’s cool, and his teachers and television are giving homosexuals extra attention and praise, is going to face just as much mental anguish as the homosexual kid who feels forced into the closet.

The folks in the homosexual-industry are doing the same thing as the people in the race-industry. It should be enough to tear down the systemic prejudice and then leave it alone, but it’s not. They don’t make any money that way. Instead, they wait until the problem is as fixed as it’s ever going to be, then they jump in and start marketing to swing the pendulum just as far the other way, and milk the swell for all its worth.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Do those that want to deny being transgender is real admit that a baby can be born with both sexual organs or none? Do you admit that hormones decide which sex organs you get and if they ever mature?


I’ll bite; of course they can. A hermaphrodite can be either or neither. Many of them make a choice to be one or the other. Some decide to go through life rocking both the nut and the bolt. Good on them, whatever they choose. Play that hand you got dealt, bro/sis. 

Hermaphrodites are extremely, extremely rare, though. Are you capable of admiting that?

What we’re discussing, though, is males who think they want to be females and females who think they want to be males. In that discussion, it’s important to make the distinction between male vs. masculine, and female vs. feminine.

It used to be accepted that males were masculine, wore pants, liked to fight with and kill things, and have sex with females. Likewise, it was accepted that females were feminine, wore dresses, liked to nurture and make things, and liked to have sex with males. Those standards obviously didn’t fit everyone well, and I’m genuinely glad, on behalf of anyone who doesn’t fit those molds, that we’ve moved past that very narrow view of gender and sexuality.

Saying that someone is “male” no longer has to mean that they wear pants and are sexually attracted to women. While that caveat doesn’t provide anything to the vast majority of us, it’s a societal realization that does significantly improve the lives of many. Males are now free to wear dresses and prefer the sexual company of males and, hell, even masculine females who prefer the company of feminine males- whatever; you do you. While many will never get past compartmentalizing others based on how they fit the old, discarded gender norms, we’ve gotten to a place where _society_ does not systemically compartmentalize people according to the shape of their genitals. I’m admittedly not entirely comfortable with the public results of some of it, but I am still capable of counting that as a good thing on behalf of my brothers and sisters who struggled with it.


Full stop.


This modern, fashionable transgender BS is a step backwards. A person may not like a part of their body, but they can’t possibly know that they’re supposed to have body parts other than what they were born with. A woman can’t “know” that she’s supposed to have a penis any more than my dog can “know” he’s supposed to have antlers. Legitimizing the gender-fashion musings of the so-called “transgenders” (putting aside the _extremely_ rare hermaphrodite) is a backslide to enforcing the gender norms of old.

_You have a vagina but feel masculine and are attracted to feminine women? The answer is simple; we’ve got to cut off those breasts and sew a pneumatic bratwurst to your crotch.

You have a penis but fit better into the old female norm? Let’s cut off that penis, cake on some makeup, and put you into some high heels, and you can finally be that caricature of a woman that we all know defines you._

People that promote the transgender fallacy (_and I’m looking directly at you, Mrs. Painter, when I say this_) are working against the freedom and progress toward acceptance that our not-so-“normal” friends and family have made, and I find it offensive and insulting on their behalf.


*ETA: and don’t even get me started on dragging children into this delusional BS. *


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> My truth is not your business. Why does it bother you so much that I don't share it with you? My personal experience with transgender life or family has nothing to do with you.
> 
> Calling me names won’t change that.


I don't care about you "sharing" anything about your personal experiences. You can't back up you own posts, that much is clear. You seem to want to do nothing but stir the pot. What are folks that do that called?
You make exceptionally useless comments, and run from questions....that's exactly what trolls do.
Dishonesty is your MO.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Watch the series I posted and come back and tell me if person it is about was dragged into anything.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> I don't care about you "sharing" anything about your personal experiences. You can't back up you own posts, that much is clear. You seem to want to do nothing but stir the pot. What are folks that do that called?
> You make exceptionally useless comments, and run from questions....that's exactly what trolls do.
> Dishonesty is your MO.


I posted nothing dishonest. You are just ranting as usual.


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

GTX63 said:


> An old Jewish friend of mine had some sort of event for his son when he was a teen of some age. It has been a while but I recall a silver bowl of water was brought into the room, he dipped both hands into it and then raised them up over his hand.
> In his audible prayer to God, he was proclaiming his son to be a man; that he was washing his hands of all responsibility and that his work raising him was done.
> You do all that you can for 18 years and then let them ride out the bumps for another 10 or so until hopefully, they figure it out.


My kids pediatrician told me during the rough end of teen years " you kept them alive for 18 years your job is done"


----------



## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

It is not about transgender or homosexuality in my mind. It is about sin. I was, as a heterosexual in my youth, all the sinner and more before I was transformed by the blood of Jesus. Believe me, I deserved nothing but judgement! I keep that in mind. My son is always welcome at my home with open arms, regardless of whether he changes or not. But the sin is not, and I have made that clear to him. 

I didn't mean to make this some sort of post "pushing" religion, but it is the only way to explain my position.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MichaelZ said:


> It is not about transgender or homosexuality in my mind. It is about sin. I was, as a heterosexual in my youth, all the sinner and more before I was transformed by the blood of Jesus. Believe me, I deserved nothing but judgement! I keep that in mind. My son is always welcome at my home with open arms, regardless of whether he changes or not. But the sin is not, and I have made that clear to him.
> 
> I didn't mean to make this some sort of post "pushing" religion, but it is the only way to explain my position.


I understand your position. Mine is very similar.

Can we agree that the person is born with the abnormal desire? Some may be learned, but I think most are just born that way. I talked to many queer men in very personal settings and some said they were queer because they simply could not attract the opposite sex. Maybe because they were very effeminate. I don't know. I have known some queers that were as tough as any normal man and tougher than most, real he men.

If so, how could they be expected to overcome that if it is as strong as a heterosexual's attraction is toward the opposite sex?


----------



## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

I haven't watched Becoming Jane, but my daughter was obsessed with I am Jazz, a whole years-long reality series that documents the life of a boy child who wants to be female. Hormone blockers, multiple reassignment surgeries, televising the life and struggles of a child who really shouldn't even know what most of this stuff is, the whole 9 yards.

That kid is now 21 and is a hot mess, physically and emotionally.

I won't even go into how insulting I found it, as a biological woman, that what makes you a _real_ female is having porn-star boobs (quote), an attractive vagina, and wearing pretty dresses and makeup while giggling with the girls. It gets the feminist in me all kinds of riled up, but that's another topic.

Anyway, these surgeries are often nightmare stories. YouTube is filled with them. Putting children on hormone blockers makes the surgeries that much more likely to fail - disastrously and possibly with life threatening/altering consequences - later (you can guess why or look up what they actually do to make fake sex organs). Then you have the people that get the surgeries that don't magically fix the issue the person thought was the problem, and they get surgery after surgery trying to be happy with something that has nothing to do with what your body looks like. Often with life threatening/altering consequences. Lots of those on YouTube as well. Other videos that might be interesting are those by the people who are trying to de-transition because they realized that whatever difficulties they were having wasn't caused by being the wrong sex. Taking a perfectly healthy body, turning it into some Frankenstein's monster and then trying to turn it back into what it once was. Doesn't end well.

Children have parents because they are not capable of predicting outcomes or making logically sound, safe decisions for themselves. Why on earth anyone would think it's OK to let someone who isn't old enough to vote, buy a lottery ticket, buy a pack of cigarettes, buy alcohol, or enter into a legally binding contract decide that they should mutilate their bodies or take drugs that stunt their natural growth pattern in preparation to mutilate their bodies is beyond me.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Mish said:


> Children have parents because they are not capable of predicting outcomes or making logically sound, safe decisions for themselves. Why on earth would anyone think it's OK to let someone who isn't old enough to vote, buy a lottery ticket, buy a pack of cigarettes, buy alcohol, or enter into a legally binding contract decide that they should mutilate their bodies or take drugs that stunt their natural growth pattern in preparation to mutilate their bodies is beyond me


Because it isn't about the kids. It's about how woke the parents are, when they are bragging to their woke friends.


----------



## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

muleskinner2 said:


> Because it isn't about the kids. It's about how woke the parents are, when they are bragging to their woke friends.


I'm not going to lump all parents into that category. I'm going to immediately go against my statement that it's beyond me and give my opinion  

I do think there are some of those. I think there are also some (maybe most?) who are really trying to look out for their children's best interest but are also the type of parents that think emotionally and not logically about permanence of all of this and don't consider that children are exceptionally bad about seeing around corners and making good long-term decisions for themselves. Teenagers are the worst about this because they all act like they know it all, and then it becomes a huge problem when the parents start believing it too. The ones that forget we're not supposed to be their friends, we're supposed to see things they can't see yet and protect them from things they think they want but don't think long-term enough to know what they're getting into.

I don't even want to go into the Munchhausen's by Proxy parents, because I think there are a good handful of those too, especially when you see the little, little kids insisting they should be dressed like a drag queen and go out marching in the gay pride parades stumping for trans rights. I've raised kids and been around kids long enough to know that your average 6 year old is more concerned with catching cooties because a girl/boy touched them or their sister crossing the imaginary territory line the back seat of the car than whether trans people have the right to use whatever bathroom they want. 

And lastly, I think mostly non-parents, those that are trying to further an agenda. No matter what the cost. A certain number of casualties are acceptable in any war.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Mish said:


> I'm not going to lump all parents into that category. I'm going to immediately go against my statement that it's beyond me and give my opinion
> 
> I do think there are some of those. I think there are also some (maybe most?) who are really trying to look out for their children's best interest but are also the type of parents that think emotionally and not logically about permanence of all of this and don't consider that children are exceptionally bad about seeing around corners and making good long-term decisions for themselves. Teenagers are the worst about this because they all act like they know it all, and then it becomes a huge problem when the parents start believing it too. The ones that forget we're not supposed to be their friends, we're supposed to see things they can't see yet and protect them from things they think they want but don't think long-term enough to know what they're getting into.
> 
> ...


Good point.


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Forcast said:


> My kids pediatrician told me during the rough end of teen years " you kept them alive for 18 years your job is done"


Ah, if only that were true.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Do those that want to deny being transgender is real admit that a baby can be born with both sexual organs or none? Do you admit that hormones decide which sex organs you get and if they ever mature?


We are not talking about people who are born with both or neither sexual organs. We are not talking about people whos sexual hormones are at a fully functional level (past puberty).

This is about small children who are determined to be non-conforming due to various factors, who are being treated by the school instead of medical and mental health professionals.

I shudder to think about what would have happened to me if my school had been so "helpful" in determining my sexual orientation.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Watch the series I posted and come back and tell me if person it is about was dragged into anything.


It still doesn't make it right for the school to counsel a child on the transition process. 

I know someone who is transgender and she's a very strong advocate of not rushing the process and a very strong need for substantial counselling so that young people don't come to believe that all their problems will be resolved as soon as the process begins or even when it ends


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> We are not talking about people who are born with both or neither sexual organs. We are not talking about people whos sexual hormones are at a fully functional level (past puberty).
> 
> This is about small children who are determined to be non-conforming due to various factors, who are being treated by the school instead of medical and mental health professionals.
> 
> I shudder to think about what would have happened to me if my school had been so "helpful" in determining my sexual orientation.



I did not speak to what the school was doing.

I spoke to those that have decided they believe that they know what is in the child's mind and how hormones lead to what is what their gender is. Not one of the people here knows what the child's gender is. All they know is what their sexual organs were at birth. Sexual organs are not gender.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> It still doesn't make it right for the school to counsel a child on the transition process.
> 
> I know someone who is transgender and she's a very strong advocate of not rushing the process and a very strong need for substantial counselling so that young people don't come to believe that all their problems will be resolved as soon as the process begins or even when it ends


The series talks about the counseling and the long process before surgery happens. It talks about how the child was self-harming and almost committed suicide several times before they could be honest with the parents about being a different gender than the sexual organs indicated. It is a well done series and well worth watching for those that have not had the opportunity to interact with a teen in this sitaution.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

painterswife said:


> I did not speak to what the school was doing.
> 
> I spoke to those that have decided they believe that they know what is in the child's mind and how hormones lead to what is what their gender is. Not one of the people here knows what the child's gender is. All they know is what their sexual organs were at birth. Sexual organs are not gender.


Since you have admitted you aren't a parent nor very skilled at "facts" we can take your opinion for what it is worth.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I posted nothing dishonest. You are just ranting as usual.


Intellectual dishonesty for all to see!!
Have the day you deserve....smh


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Intellectual dishonesty for all to see!!
> Have the day you deserve....smh


 More ranting for all to see.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I did not speak to what the school was doing.
> 
> I spoke to those that have decided they believe that they know what is in the child's mind and how hormones lead to what is what their gender is. Not one of the people here knows what the child's gender is. All they know is what their sexual organs were at birth. Sexual organs are not gender.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> The series talks about the counseling and the long process before surgery happens. It talks about how the child was self-harming and almost committed suicide several times before they could be honest with the parents about being a different gender than the sexual organs indicated. It is a well done series and well worth watching for those that have not had the opportunity to interact with a teen in this sitaution.


I still don't believe it's the school's place to orchestrate or encourage. If they feel a child is in danger, they should contact authorities or find a qualified counsellor.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> I still don't believe it's the school's place to orchestrate or encourage. If they feel a child is in danger, they should contact authorities or find a qualified counsellor.


Why do you keep telling me that? I did not speak to the school situation.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> More ranting for all to see.


Still cant answer questions about your own post. What are you terrified of? The truth?
It's clear you don't understand the term "rant".
Have the day you deserve...


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Still cant answer questions about your own post. What are you terrified of? The truth?
> It's clear you don't understand the term "rant".
> Have the day you deserve...


Still ranting and telling lies about what I can and can not do? I believe that you understand the difference between can and will but maybe you don't.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

painterswife said:


> I did not speak to what the school was doing.
> 
> I spoke to those that have decided they believe that they know what is in the child's mind and how hormones lead to what is what their gender is. Not one of the people here knows what the child's gender is. All they know is what their sexual organs were at birth. Sexual organs are not gender.



This thread was about a school going behind the parent's backs to provide a service they are not qualified to provide. While your series may be a good reference or support source for parents who are encountering a similar situation, it is not the place of the school to provide gender counseling.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> This thread was about a school going behind the parent's backs to provide a service they are not qualified to provide. While your series may be a good reference or support source for parents who are encountering a similar situation, it is not the place of the school to provide gender counseling.


Yet others also discussed their belief that sexual organs are the only deciding factor in gender. I spoke to that.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

To be fair, the official definition of gender was changed a few years ago. In my dictionary it refers only to the use in grammar.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

To be fair this is a topic that has been discussed many times in these forums since it's change but many still don't understand the difference or don't want to.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> LOL, that would mean that unless you are transgender your opinion us irrelevant as well. There is no hell. It was made up by men who want to control others.


So you approve child mutilation and mental abuse?
The point is the people doing the manipulating, the hateful left with their deviant ways and perverted actions.
Leave children alone, they have enough problems without some nitwit liberal arts major telling them they ain't right.
Why is the left so vile all the time?


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> To be fair this is a topic that has been discussed many times in these forums since it's change but many still don't understand the difference or don't want to.


You could if you tried a little
You don't mess with other people's kids, even you should know that


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Why do you keep telling me that? I did not speak to the school situation.


Because I think it's quite important. Why does it bother you when I express my opinion?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> Because I think it's quite important. Why does it bother you when I express my opinion?


I have no problem with expressing your opinion but pointing at me continually looks like you have an agenda with me. Why don't you discuss it with those that want to discuss it. It might serve you better.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I have no problem with expressing your opinion but pointing at me continually looks like you have an agenda with me. Why don't you discuss it with those that want to discuss it. It might serve you better.


I think I'm capable of deciding how and when I should post but thank you for your opinion.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> I think I'm capable of deciding how and when I should post but thank you for your opinion.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> So you approve child mutilation and mental abuse?
> The point is the people doing the manipulating, the hateful left with their deviant ways and perverted actions.
> Leave children alone, they have enough problems without some nitwit liberal arts major telling them they ain't right.
> Why is the left so vile all the time?


I would hate to think that young people are being manipulated but I would suggest that time spent with a qualified counsellor would allow is a good start understanding the motivation for change and if the teen has realistic expectations.

Having said that, I absolutely don't believe that any teen should be undergoing any surgery until they are legally an adult.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

wr said:


> I would hate to think that young people are being manipulated but I would suggest that time spent with a qualified counsellor would allow is a good start understanding the motivation for change and if the teen has realistic expectations.
> 
> Having said that, I absolutely don't believe that any teen should be undergoing any surgery until they are legally an adult.


Especially without the parents consent. This is child abuse, perverts pushing their agenda on people at impressionable ages.
Nothing makes me angrier than someone abusing children, whether physical, emotional or just taking advantage of teenage confusion and hormones.
It's no better than rape in my book and should be treated as such.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Still ranting and telling lies about what I can and can not do? I believe that you understand the difference between can and will but maybe you don't.


The rants are coming from you. I told no lies at all.
Your afraid to back up what you post, it's that simple.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> The rants are coming from you. I told no lies at all.
> Your afraid to back up what you post, it's that simple.


So entertaining. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> So entertaining. Keep up the good work.


Do you approve of people influencing someone else's minor child to change, possibly ruin their lives?
That doesn't seem criminal to you?


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> Especially without the parents consent. This is child abuse, perverts pushing their agenda on people at impressionable ages.
> Nothing makes me angrier than someone abusing children, whether physical, emotional or just taking advantage of teenage confusion and hormones.
> It's no better than rape in my book and should be treated as such.


There are a small number of trans kids out there but no assumptions should be made. I watched the entire world conclude that Angelina Jolie's had the poster child for trans kids and I watched several interviews where she clearly stated that at one time, he daughter insisted upon being addressed by a male name and insisted on wearing cropped hair and suits instead of dresses. 

I guess it's a good thing she's a laid back mom who refused to make long term decisions for her child because the trans kid poster child has taken a hard turn on her fashion choices lately.


----------



## Kelly Craig (Oct 10, 2021)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I’ll bite; of course they can. A hermaphrodite can be either or neither. Many of them make a choice to be one or the other. Some decide to go through life rocking both the nut and the bolt. Good on them, whatever they choose. Play that hand you got dealt, bro/sis.
> 
> Hermaphrodites are extremely, extremely rare, though. Are you capable of admiting that?
> 
> ...


MY ADMISSION: Though real, THEY are not 50% of the population. They do not need to be a part of every show, news story and so on.


----------



## DebbieJ (Oct 9, 2016)

We are supposed to hate the sin, but love the sinner. We are all sinners, saved by the grace of God. Just my opinion. I have 2 grandchildren that are homosexuals. One male, one female. I love them both, but don’t like their life style.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

DebbieJ said:


> We are supposed to hate the sin, but love the sinner. We are all sinners, saved by the grace of God. Just my opinion. I have 2 grandchildren that are homosexuals. One male, one female. I love them both, but don’t like their life style.


----------



## Kelly Craig (Oct 10, 2021)

DebbieJ said:


> We are supposed to hate the sin, but love the sinner. We are all sinners, saved by the grace of God. Just my opinion. I have 2 grandchildren that are homosexuals. One male, one female. I love them both, but don’t like their life style.


True. But there is much more in the Bible on the matter. Associations with those whose lives run counter to Bible principals, for example, are proscribed. That would include systems that promote "alternate lifestyles." Schools have become notorious for promoting such things. 

Elsewhere, it's pushed on us to accept actual homosexuality as FAR more common than it is. Thinking minds know only a percentage of those we'd call queer or gay are that by nature. In reality, when a mind can be changed, it cannot be equated to being akin to being a hermaphrodite.


----------



## Bamabear53 (Oct 29, 2021)

Jaz,s Mom was her biggest problem, she is a total idiot that pushed her child into it, now jaz is huge and miserable. How in this world can she or any child like this be happy, total mess! Television should have never promoted this crap!


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Bamabear53 said:


> Jaz,s Mom was her biggest problem, she is a total idiot that pushed her child into it, now jaz is huge and miserable. How in this world can she or any child like this be happy, total mess! Television should have never promoted this crap!


Who is Jaz?


----------



## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

wr said:


> Who is Jaz?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Jazz

"_*I Am Jazz*_ (announced as _*All That Jazz*_) is an American reality television series on TLC about a transgender girl named Jazz Jennings. The series features Jazz and her family "dealing with typical teen drama through the lens of a transgender youth."[1][2] _I Am Jazz_ premiered on July 15, 2015, and has received positive reviews.

Jazz Jennings, a South Florida teen, was assigned male at birth. Aged 4, Jennings was diagnosed with gender dysphoria in childhood, making her one of the youngest publicly documented people to be identified as gender dysphoric.[6] Her parents, Greg and Jeanette, decided to support her female gender identity by her fifth birthday. Jazz has been in the spotlight since 2007, when at age 6, she was interviewed by Barbara Walters to discuss her gender identity. She participated in follow-up interviews, launched a foundation, and co-wrote a book, also called _I Am Jazz_. She has also posted videos about her life on YouTube."


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Kelly Craig said:


> True. But there is much more in the Bible on the matter. Associations with those whose lives run counter to Bible principals, for example, are proscribed. That would include systems that promote "alternate lifestyles." Schools have become notorious for promoting such things.
> 
> Elsewhere, it's pushed on us to accept actual homosexuality as FAR more common than it is. Thinking minds know only a percentage of those we'd call queer or gay are that by nature. In reality, when a mind can be changed, it cannot be equated to being akin to being a hermaphrodite.


But why is the line drawn at homosexuality? There seems to be many interpretations of what is important in the Bible, but, by most interpretations, it should readily extend to associating with people who drink alcohol, coffee/tea, smoke, eyeball their neighbor’s wife’s backside in the jeans she specifically bought to generate a little backside-eyeballing….

If you dissociate from everyone that the Bible says is living sin, then you’re going to lead a pretty lonely life.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> But why is the line drawn at homosexuality? There seems to be many interpretations of what is important in the Bible, but, by most interpretations, it should readily extend to associating with people who drink alcohol, coffee/tea, smoke, eyeball their neighbor’s wife’s backside in the jeans she specifically bought to generate a little backside-eyeballing….
> 
> If you dissociate from everyone that the Bible says is living sin, then you’re going to lead a pretty lonely life.


There is no difference between a liar and a pervert, a thief or jealousy, though He does speak of those who harm children.
We are beings who crave structure and stability, regardless of who originates it. Once we have it we tend to conform it to others rather than ourselves.
Interpretations were meant for the Old Testement.
That officially ended with the 3rd chapter in Malachi.
After that, God didn't draw the line, man did.
In a sense, we can choose to allow our minds to dictate our behaviour or our behaviour to dictate to our minds.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> But why is the line drawn at homosexuality? There seems to be many interpretations of what is important in the Bible, but, by most interpretations, it should readily extend to associating with people who drink alcohol, coffee/tea, smoke, eyeball their neighbor’s wife’s backside in the jeans she specifically bought to generate a little backside-eyeballing….
> 
> If you dissociate from everyone that the Bible says is living sin, then you’re going to lead a pretty lonely life.


Because some types of Christians want to be able to have something to cherry pick from Scripture & call others out on their sin. Those types don't want to examine their own lives & see where they are doing wrong. They seem to think that the Bible is not a guidebook for living one's own life but is instead a club to beat others with. They should, as Scripture says, remove the log from their own eyes before they seek to remove the speck from others' eyes.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Mish said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Jazz
> 
> "_*I Am Jazz*_ (announced as _*All That Jazz*_) is an American reality television series on TLC about a transgender girl named Jazz Jennings. The series features Jazz and her family "dealing with typical teen drama through the lens of a transgender youth."[1][2] _I Am Jazz_ premiered on July 15, 2015, and has received positive reviews.
> 
> Jazz Jennings, a South Florida teen, was assigned male at birth. Aged 4, Jennings was diagnosed with gender dysphoria in childhood, making her one of the youngest publicly documented people to be identified as gender dysphoric.[6] Her parents, Greg and Jeanette, decided to support her female gender identity by her fifth birthday. Jazz has been in the spotlight since 2007, when at age 6, she was interviewed by Barbara Walters to discuss her gender identity. She participated in follow-up interviews, launched a foundation, and co-wrote a book, also called _I Am Jazz_. She has also posted videos about her life on YouTube."


I have absolutely no issues with anyone different than myself but 'reality TV' isn't my thing.


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

wr said:


> I would hate to think that young people are being manipulated but I would suggest that time spent with a qualified counsellor would allow is a good start understanding the motivation for change and if the teen has realistic expectations.
> 
> Having said that, I absolutely don't believe that any teen should be undergoing any surgery until they are legally an adult.


Altering the body does absolutely nothing to alter the self image, you can't outrun yourself.

If you are mentally ill, self mutilation will not cure it. 

Once you start down that slippery slope there is no going back and often no end to it.

Just because you can does not mean that you should.

And no 'woke' teacher has the right to push a child down that slope.


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> But why is the line drawn at homosexuality? There seems to be many interpretations of what is important in the Bible, but, by most interpretations, it should readily extend to associating with people who drink alcohol, coffee/tea, smoke, eyeball their neighbor’s wife’s backside in the jeans she specifically bought to generate a little backside-eyeballing….
> 
> If you dissociate from everyone that the Bible says is living sin, then you’re going to lead a pretty lonely life.


This might help.

1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a (Christian) brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

HDRider said:


> A relatively small yet revealing study by Arizona Christian University found “millennials” in the United States to be mostly anti-establishment, unpatriotic, pro-freedom of religion, and, perhaps most interestingly, desperately searching for a purpose in life.





> The meaning of life according to Viktor Frankl lies in finding a purpose and taking responsibility for ourselves and other human beings. By having a clear “why” we can face all the “how” questions of life. Only by feeling free and sure of the objective that motivates us will we be able to make the world a better place.


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

painterswife said:


> LOL, that would mean that unless you are transgender your opinion us irrelevant as well. There is no hell. It was made up by men who want to control others.





painterswife said:


> That is a very entertaining post.





painterswife said:


> Why would I bother. You went off on a rant like you contr who can have an opinion on something based on your criteria. That is laughable and entertaining.





painterswife said:


> Choosing not to answer questions in your rants is not the same as not being able to.





painterswife said:


> Your opinion is noted. Not based in reality but noted.





painterswife said:


> My truth is not your business. Why does it bother you so much that I don't share it with you? My personal experience with transgender life or family has nothing to do with you.
> 
> Calling me names won’t change that.





painterswife said:


> I posted nothing dishonest. You are just ranting as usual.





painterswife said:


> More ranting for all to see.





painterswife said:


> Why do you keep telling me that? I did not speak to the school situation.





painterswife said:


> Still ranting and telling lies about what I can and can not do? I believe that you understand the difference between can and will but maybe you don't.





painterswife said:


> I have no problem with expressing your opinion but pointing at me continually looks like you have an agenda with me. Why don't you discuss it with those that want to discuss it. It might serve you better.





painterswife said:


> So entertaining. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

I was thinking this is the same thing they are doing in schools wiith CRT. Very devious, smart, but devious.

"
he three classes Murphy attended were designed to recruit middle school students to GSA clubs, she said.


> _*“The overarching theme of the classes that I attended were California Teachers instructing other teachers on how to sneak in the LGBTQ+ curriculum in a manner that does not alert parents,” *_Murphy said.


Caldeira and Baraki led a workshop called “How we run a ‘GSA’ in Conservative Communities,” and they described the obstacles they faced as activist teachers in concealing the activities of these clubs from parents.
In the audio clip, Caldeira advised teachers who lead LGBTQ clubs to maintain an air of plausible deniability so they can play dumb if they are questioned by parents.
“Because we are not official, we have no club rosters. We keep no records,” said Caldeira, who is also an LGBTQ club leader. “In fact, sometimes we don’t really want to keep records because if parents get upset that their kids are coming? We’re like, ‘Yeah, I don’t know. Maybe they came?’ You know, we would never want a kid to get in trouble for attending if their parents are upset.”
Baraki backed up Caldeira’s advice, suggesting activist teachers to disguise the nature of GSA clubs by calling them something less obvious. Baraki provided an example of this deception, pointing out she avoided naming her LGBTQ club a GSA. Instead, she called it the “Equity Club” and later changed the name to the “You Be You” club.

*The teachers bragged about spying on students’ online searches and activity as well as eavesdropping on their conversations *to identify and recruit sixth-grade students into these LGBTQ clubs whose membership rolls are kept hidden from parents. They suggested that *parents who refuse to call their child by pronouns of the child’s choosing should be arrested and charged with child abuse, *Murphy said."

..."
Caldeira also spoke about how she controls morning announcements at the school.


> “That’s another type of strategy I can give you,” she said. “I’m the one who controls the messaging. Everybody says, ‘Oh, Ms. Caldeira, you’re so sweet, you volunteered to do that.’ Of course, I’m so sweet that I volunteered to do that, because then I control the information that goes out. And, for the first time this year, students have been allowed to put openly LGBT content into our morning announcement slides.”


She went on to boast about the students she recruited to help with the announcements.
“Three of the kids on the team, two of them are non-binary, and the other one is just very fluid in every way. She’s fabulous. So, it’s actually a nice group,” she said.
Caldeira pointed out more than once that she can’t be fired, and she thanked CTA for her tenure and for providing resources and tools."








__





Zerohedge


ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




www.zerohedge.com


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Sounds like grooming, no different than any other child sexual predator .


----------



## Irene D. Edwards (12 mo ago)

Her parents should understand their daughter. In cause-and-effect essays, I have read that children who are understood by their parents become more successful. Statistics show an increase of unhappy children. I think that the transition must not exclude the person from society. So please be careful how you treat your daughter.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irene D. Edwards said:


> Her parents should understand their daughter.


You joined HT to say that?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The school district should understand their place in the social hierarchy.

YOU DON'T KNOW, Irene, the back story, do you?


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> But why is the line drawn at homosexuality? There seems to be many interpretations of what is important in the Bible, but, by most interpretations, it should readily extend to associating with people who drink alcohol, coffee/tea, smoke, eyeball their neighbor’s wife’s backside in the jeans she specifically bought to generate a little backside-eyeballing….
> 
> If you dissociate from everyone that the Bible says is living sin, then you’re going to lead a pretty lonely life.



I don't think any of those are prohibited in the Bible. Alcohol is not prohibited, being a drunk is. Looking at attractive women is not wrong. Lusting after them is wrong, but looking is not lusting.


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> But why is the line drawn at homosexuality? There seems to be many interpretations of what is important in the Bible, but, by most interpretations, it should readily extend to associating with people who drink alcohol, coffee/tea, smoke, eyeball their neighbor’s wife’s backside in the jeans she specifically bought to generate a little backside-eyeballing….
> 
> If you dissociate from everyone that the Bible says is living sin, then you’re going to lead a pretty lonely life.


I know that this post is rather dated, however, I just saw it and had a reply.

*1 Corinthians 5*

Dealing With a Case of Incest

1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

6Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

*9I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13**God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”*


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Roman 1:27
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

I am more apt to refer back to what Jesus said, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

My preference is that what people do with each other in their own private space is none of my business. But those who harm others (thieves, cheats, liars, murderers, etc) should pay for the damage they do and be prevented from doing more damage.


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Danaus29 said:


> I am more apt to refer back to what Jesus said, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".


Would you care to hear my somewhat modified version of that?

Today I do not know of any public stonings happening hereabouts, however, character assassination abounds.

I wonder if Jesus were to address the crowd today, if he would say something like.

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first slur."


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I like the next part.

Woman, where are your accusers?
They have gone.
Neither do I condemn thee.

I think it's pretty bad that even though she was "taken in the very act", the man (other woman? the bible doesn't specify) she was with, got away without his life being threatened. It makes me question things. I could, and have, done a half hour q&a on just this incident and still have no answers as to why the other person was not a sinner, yet the woman was.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

And yes, in todays terms it would be something like "let him cast the first name".


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Danaus29 said:


> I like the next part.
> 
> Woman, where are your accusers?
> They have gone.
> ...



This might help.



> With these points in mind, we note that the test case brought before Jesus is adultery (v. 4), which as the challengers note, is a capital crime according to the Law of Moses (v. 5, see Leviticus 20:10; Deuteronomy 22:22). Both of these texts, however, require the death of both the woman _and_ _the man_ who are caught in the act of adultery.
> 
> If as Jesus’ challengers say, the woman was “caught in adultery, in the very act” (v. 4), common sense would suggest to Jesus that the same witnesses should have observed the man involved as well, and yet he is conspicuously missing from the proceedings. Observing the absence of the man and knowing that the Scriptures on which the charge of adultery was based, Jesus had to have known there was more to the story than was being told.
> 
> Link


----------



## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

no really said:


> Sounds like grooming, no different than any other child sexual predator .


That’s exactly what it is.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Must be a


Alice In TX/MO said:


> The school district should understand their place in the social hierarchy.
> 
> YOU DON'T KNOW, Irene, the back story, do you?


Must be a troll. Comes in as a new member, makes one post, and scutters off. 

SMH


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Pony said:


> Must be a
> 
> Must be a troll. Comes in as a new member, makes one post, and scutters off.
> 
> SMH


Molotov Cocktail innuendo comments.

IMHO there are those who are experts at throwing them.

When passions get aroused, they hit the report button and get the whole thread pulled down.

Which was their goal in the first place, because they didn't like the topic.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

@Tom Horn, which is exactly my point. There was much more to the story. In his own way, Jesus pointed out their hypocrisy to the crowd in a way that burned their very souls.


----------

