# Break-through in the hand pump sector



## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

I have never seen a hand pump deliver so much water.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/the-happy-homesteader/living-off-grid-a-home-made-deep-well-pump.aspx

A video update to the article is even more impressive. A grand mother pumps 5 gpms. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lHVc38T5lWc


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

Neat link, Thank you for sharing! We still need a hand pump on our well, the electric pump has already went out twice in less than a year-and 3 weeks without a working well was a pain in the rump :hrm:. This looks like a great idea!


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

ladybug said:


> Neat link, Thank you for sharing! We still need a hand pump on our well, the electric pump has already went out twice in less than a year-and 3 weeks without a working well was a pain in the rump :hrm:. This looks like a great idea!


Thanks, glad I can share.

What a hassle to go through. I hope things will work better now.

I thought I would see how long it would take to fill a gallon jug from my kitchen faucet. It was 43 seconds. I guess it would be easy to wash clothes using that hand pump machine.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Good link, thanks.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

Yes, there are few good hand pumps on the market and I know of about three on the market, but let&#8217;s face reality here about a &#8220;Long Emergency.&#8221;

How long is an emergency or common hand pump going to last during a long emergency?

How many gallons of water is a family going to need per day during a long emergency?
Will the hand pump provide the volumes of water you will need during a long emergency?

Are you going to wear yourself out providing the volumes of water you need from the hand pump?

How much time are you going to have to spend pumping water with an emergency or common hand pump to get the gallons of water you need for the entire family, garden, livestock?

What if you water well is deep and the hand pump is too hard to use to get the water you need daily during a long emergency?

Is the hand pump going to provide the water you need during a long emergency?

Did you know: One popular hand pump brand states that it takes a 200-pound, 6-foot tall man stroking 60 times a minute to pump the maximum water quantity with their hand pumps, and the maximum out of their best pump is 4.5-5 gallons.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Neat idea. Always happy to see someone's ingenuity in action.

We've had our Simple Pump for about 3 years now, and are very satisfied with it. Our static water level is around 160', so our pump goes down about 185'. I don't have any trouble getting 6+ gpm out of it. I plumbed it back to the pressure tank, so I can charge the tank (35 psi so far) and feed the house. The big advantage is being able to drop the pump down the same well as the submersible.

Although it doesn't have a lifetime warranty, it's made of stainless steel, and aircraft grade aluminum, cnc milled, and went together with no problems. We bought the maintenance kit, so if we wear a seal out we can replace it.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Neat idea. Always happy to see someone's ingenuity in action.
> 
> We've had our Simple Pump for about 3 years now, and are very satisfied with it. Our static water level is around 160', so our pump goes down about 185'. I don't have any trouble getting 6+ gpm out of it. I plumbed it back to the pressure tank, so I can charge the tank (35 psi so far) and feed the house. The big advantage is being able to drop the pump down the same well as the submersible.
> 
> Although it doesn't have a lifetime warranty, it's made of stainless steel, and aircraft grade aluminum, cnc milled, and went together with no problems. We bought the maintenance kit, so if we wear a seal out we can replace it.


Can you post a video showing the 6+gpm?

Do you use it for your daily water needs?

WOW! You must be stroking more than 60 times a minute to get six+ gallons and using a 36 inch arm. The most flow rate I see on their chart is [email protected] 60 cycles. 

Did you modify it?


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## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

Very interesting link. Thanks for sharing


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Solarman said:


> Yes, there are few good hand pumps on the market and I know of about three on the market, but letâs face reality here about a âLong Emergency.â
> 
> How long is an emergency or common hand pump going to last during a long emergency?
> 
> ...


So.... Whats your point? Have no back up pump?


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

terri9630 said:


> So.... Whats your point? Have no back up pump?


Just something to think about before SHTF.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

If they are using a 4 inch windmill cylinder it would be a separate pumping system! You sure could not drop it in with your existing pump.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

Wanda said:


> If they are using a 4 inch windmill cylinder it would be a separate pumping system! You sure could not drop it in with your existing pump.


Most casing are 6 inches, that leaves 2 inches of room. The electric pump would go in first, then the 4 inch pump cylinder will slide right in and above the electric pump. I talked with my pump installer and he said it will work, no problem. Other choices are to use a smaller windmill cylinder.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Solarman said:


> Can you post a video showing the 6+gpm?
> 
> Do you use it for your daily water needs?
> 
> ...


Estimated water volume using a 5 gal bucket, less than a minute.

No, we have electricity here in the Ozarks. The Simple Pump is purely backup.

Yes, we use the 36" arm. It takes about 12 - 14 pounds downward pressure. Although I'm 6'3", 220 lbs, my much smaller wife has no difficulty pumping regular, sufficient flows.

Good luck putting a 4" pipe in a 6" casing without tearing the wiring up on the existing submersible.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Estimated water volume using a 5 gal bucket, less than a minute.
> 
> No, we have electricity here in the Ozarks. The Simple Pump is purely backup.
> 
> ...


They are good pumps. I agree!

Like I said, my pump installer said it will work, no problem! He told me they fasten the pump wire to the drop pipe nice and tight, so if they ever do come back to install a hand pump it is easier for them.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I am disapointed in that video in that they never mentioned the static water depth...

Makes a big difference.........


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## defenestrate (Aug 23, 2005)

Not only is that 10' of travel or so, as mentioned above there is no comment about depth - also, the pump is already primed as it starts kicking out a good amount of water on the first pump.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

Jim, Defenstrate

Did you read the Mother Earth News blog? It has all that information. 

Some hand pumps keep primed.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

defenestrate said:


> Not only is that 10' of travel or so, as mentioned above there is no comment about depth -


Wow, that would make the grandmother 8' tall or so. I will have to go check that out again! Never see a grandmother that tall.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

It just keeps getting better. Now it's 14+ gallons a minute with this deep well hand pump.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TGkWzBSE9lY


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

I will admit that his pump is impressive at first glance, but here is some basic physics:

80 feet static depth. 4" diameter pipe. That is 6.8 cubic feet of water in the water column, less the volume of the pump rod - call it 6 cubic feet of water. Water weighs 62lbs per cubic foot or 8 lbs per gallon. 9 strokes to lift 7 gallons of water in 30 seconds. .78 gal per stroke. One gallon = .134 cubic feet.

*Each stroke lifts approx 370 lbs of water about one foot*. 18 strokes in one minute = 6660 foot pounds = 150 watts in one minute. After about ten minutes, I suspect he would have to stop.

That level of activity is a stretch for the average person in good shape (notice he walks away a little winded after 30 seconds). A stationary bike might generate 50 watts per minute for someone taking it easy, 100 watts per minute at workout rate, and 150 watts per minute working up a lather.

Personally, I'd rather use the large leg muscles with a stationary bike instead of stressing the back repeatedly. Or I might find a platform where I step up two feet, wait for the pump action to lower me, and then repeat, to be easier. Performing that extreme bowing and bending action under stress could lay a person up for a few days just when they needed to be active. The laws of physics will not be denied, so it pays to match energy output of the body to the task.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

Harry Chickpea said:


> I will admit that his pump is impressive at first glance, but here is some basic physics:
> 
> 80 feet static depth. 4" diameter pipe. That is 6.8 cubic feet of water in the water column, less the volume of the pump rod - call it 6 cubic feet of water. Water weighs 62lbs per cubic foot or 8 lbs per gallon. 9 strokes to lift 7 gallons of water in 30 seconds. .78 gal per stroke. One gallon = .134 cubic feet.
> 
> ...


It is not possible to pump 14 gpm from 80 feet with 150 watts of power. It requires a 3/4 hp motor to do that. Just ask any pump installer.

I don&#8217;t think you have considered the amount of force (in pounds) it takes to pull up on a rod that has a 80 foot column of water over a 4 inch plunger with leathers seals. In other words &#8220;Friction.&#8221;

The larger the cylinder the more friction and force it requires to pull the rod up. A three inch cylinder requires about half the force to pull up the rod than the 4 inch, because it has half the friction. That&#8217;s why 4 inch cylinders are operated by windmills, and 3 inch and smaller cylinders are for hand pumps.

The force of the column water pressing downwards and outwards on leather cup seals then against the cylinders wall creates the seal so one can lift the water, but it also creates a lot force to overcome. Can you calculate this force and friction in pounds also?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Will the hand pump provide *the volumes of water you will need* during a long emergency?


Didn't hand pumps provide ALL the water needed for survival before electricity was common?


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Solarman said:


> It is not possible to pump 14 gpm from 80 feet with 150 watts of power. It requires a 3/4 hp motor to do that. Just ask any pump installer.
> 
> I donât think you have considered the amount of force (in pounds) it takes to pull up on a rod that has a 80 foot column of water over a 4 inch plunger with leathers seals. In other words âFriction.â
> 
> ...


Correct, I did not to take into account friction at the seals or the friction of water at the sides of the pipe. Also correct that a narrower water column will weigh less and take less lifting force (although the friction will increase).

Although I agree with you that a 3/4 hp electric pump is generally going to be needed, there are other factors involved in that. In order for such a pump to have enough strength to pressure the water to 40 pound per square inch at the tap, it effectively has to add about another 50 feet or more of height above the top of the well. The starting current is another limiting factor, as the submersible pump has to work against pressure even when beginning the lift cycle. Then there is the de-rating that occurs because of the long electric line feed. Remember also that the pump must work until the load is satisfied. It can't limit itself to short stretches, sweat, have a drink, and then come back when it feels up to it. 3/4 HP is a nice size that has enough slack to do the job day in and day out if needed. The same concept goes for cars - in the 1950s in France, the cars were deux cheveaus (two horsepower engines in lightweight cars) while at the same time in the U.S. we had muscle cars with 200+ HP. What is the minimum to get a job done isn't always what is desired. 

As I type, my 1/2 hp harbor freight pump is pumping water out of our creek up about 100' and through about 300' of 3/4" pipe. I can use such a small pump because I use no foot valve, run the water for about a minute, then turn it OFF for a minute to allow it to backflush, and only then turn the pump on for the real pumping. Nominally, one HP is 550 watts. with motor losses, line loss, and so on I'd guess I'm pumping based on about 175 watts.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Didn't hand pumps provide ALL the water needed for survival before electricity was common?


Hmm, during a drought, family of 6 living on a farm, living off the land, with several head of cattle, horses and other animals - only water source is a well with a hand pump.

I don't know, I will have to think about that!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Hmm, during a drought, family of 6 living on a farm, living off the land, with several head of cattle, horses and other animals - only water source is a well with a hand pump.


All those parameters weren't in your *original question*. :shrug:
I do know there was no electricity HERE until about 1942, but people managed to survive (with their animals) from the 1500's
Your mileage may vary


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

What's the point of pumping it so fast? If SHTF you would have more than just a min to pump no? IMHO, If you need a lot of water such a pump is worthless, you want one that takes little effort and can be done for hours.



P.S. My hand pump is easy to move. The water flows up on the down stroke so it uses your weight to your advantage. Pumps a pail full in about 1 min. if you really wished to get a work out.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

stanb999 said:


> What's the point of pumping it so fast? If SHTF you would have more than just a min to pump no? IMHO, If you need a lot of water such a pump is worthless, you want one that takes little effort and can be done for hours.


I might want to spend my time doing other important things too! During SHTF, there will be a lot more to do than spending hours pumping water.



> P.S. My hand pump is easy to move. The water flows up on the down stroke so it uses your weight to your advantage. Pumps a pail full in about 1 min. if you really wished to get a work out.


The point of the video is to show the maximum discharge he can do.

In the following video the older couple take their time and fill a 55 gallon barrel in 10 minutes and without a lot of effort. They take turns pumping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pOtY7NFwQ7Q


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Solarman said:


> The point of the video is to show the maximum discharge he can do.
> 
> In the following video the older couple take their time and fill a 55 gallon barrel in 10 minutes and without a lot of effort. They take turns pumping.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pOtY7NFwQ7Q



After SHTF.. How are they moving the water? 55 gallons at a time is a hefty 450 pounds. I would imagine they would need an additional 3-4 people to move the water from the pumping location, Unless the plan is to use it right there.

Ever move water in five gallon pails carrying it a few hundred feet? The hard part isn't pumping.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Solarman said:


> Thanks, glad I can share.
> 
> What a hassle to go through. I hope things will work better now.
> 
> I thought I would see how long it would take to fill a gallon jug from my kitchen faucet. It was 43 seconds. I guess it would be easy to wash clothes using that hand pump machine.


Your sink faucet has a flow limiter. Domestic water is generally just north of 6 gallons a min.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

stanb999 said:


> After SHTF.. How are they moving the water? 55 gallons at a time is a hefty 450 pounds. I would imagine they would need an additional 3-4 people to move the water from the pumping location, Unless the plan is to use it right there.
> 
> Ever move water in five gallon pails carrying it a few hundred feet? The hard part isn't pumping.


Prepare!

Simply set up a overhead storage tank. Pump the water into the tank and do a gravity feed to the house plumbing lines.

Next option: Loop the discharge into the supply line and force the water into the water pressure tank. Then you will have water pressure for the faucets in the house.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Solarman said:


> Prepare!
> 
> *Simply set up a overhead storage tank.* Pump the water into the tank and do a gravity feed to the house plumbing lines.
> 
> Next option: Loop the discharge into the supply line and force the water into the water pressure tank. Then you will have water pressure for the faucets in the house.




Nothing simple about that. All kinds of codes and regulation not to mention it would be a beacon for everyone else to come to your house. Much easier and safer to use a pump to fill our 300 gallon totes we keep in the garage. 

So.... How much are you selling those pumps for?


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

A fun contest - with survival related prizes. A hand pump contest to see who can out pump grandma using a water well hand pump.

http://waterbuckpump.com/video-contest/

Going to be interesting!


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

terri9630 said:


> So.... Whats your point? Have no back up pump?


Two options come to mind...
Vastly superior surface water source...
Or, lots of manual labor on hand... in a long term shtf/teotwawki scenario, hard manual labor will be abundant. And, lots of parts on hand... sheets of leather, old rubber inner tubes, etc., to repair/replace/rebuild your pump.

Don't think I'd get too many baths if I had to stroke sixty times a minute to get 5 gallons max...


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

No surface water here. I don't think there would be many people left here. They would leave for somewhere "greener" where water is easily accessible. I think the desert would get very empty very quickly. Water is our biggest worry. Hubby wants a windmill but they are very noticeable and we have high winds which will eventually damage it.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

terri,

I would think a good rainwater harvest set would work here in NM. The summer monsoons generate a LOT of water, albeit for a short time. 3-4000 gal storage would be needed to get thru the dry parts of early summer.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

terri9630 said:


> No surface water here. I don't think there would be many people left here. They would leave for somewhere "greener" where water is easily accessible. I think the desert would get very empty very quickly. Water is our biggest worry. Hubby wants a windmill but they are very noticeable and we have high winds which will eventually damage it.


I've worked in New Mexico before, and contemplated 'homesteading' there. If I did have a well, I would definitely have an above ground water storage system. More'n likely a huge ferrocement structure. If there were OPSEC concerns about having such a huge reservoir (as big as I could get," if OPSEC was important, I'd probably have it the same height as the house, disguised as a guest house or barn. It might take a month of pumping to fill a 5 figure gallon tank, but it'd last months if not years, if one had to go on rationing... I'd prefer to have a backup solar pump, a hand pump, and probably even a bucket on a rope...


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

GoldenCityMuse said:


> terri,
> 
> I would think a good rainwater harvest set would work here in NM. The summer monsoons generate a LOT of water, albeit for a short time. 3-4000 gal storage would be needed to get thru the dry parts of early summer.



I wish the monsoon rains would come. We've only had 1/4 inch of rain here at the house this year. We have a couple of rain barrels we keep cleaning the sand out of. We have 1200 gallons in the garage and were planning on getting a 3000 gallon tank to put in the garage this fall. I finally talked hubby into talking to the local pump guy next week and seeing what he has and for how much. If we get a tank for the windmill/solar pump I want that to be separate from the garage storage.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

texican said:


> I've worked in New Mexico before, and contemplated 'homesteading' there. If I did have a well, I would definitely have an above ground water storage system. More'n likely a huge ferrocement structure. If there were OPSEC concerns about having such a huge reservoir (as big as I could get," if OPSEC was important, I'd probably have it the same height as the house, disguised as a guest house or barn. It might take a month of pumping to fill a 5 figure gallon tank, but it'd last months if not years, if one had to go on rationing... I'd prefer to have a backup solar pump, a hand pump, and probably even a bucket on a rope...




We're looking into the solar and windmill options and I have a well bucket made up. I'd hate to have to rely on that to keep us and the garden watered. The animals may all have to go in the canner.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

stanb999 said:


> After SHTF.. How are they moving the water? 55 gallons at a time is a hefty 450 pounds. I would imagine they would need an additional 3-4 people to move the water from the pumping location, Unless the plan is to use it right there.
> 
> Ever move water in five gallon pails carrying it a few hundred feet? The hard part isn't pumping.


One can move the water with a pressure tank.










That seems easy enough, don't you think?


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

texican said:


> Two options come to mind...
> Vastly superior surface water source...
> Or, lots of manual labor on hand... in a long term shtf/teotwawki scenario, hard manual labor will be abundant. And, lots of parts on hand... sheets of leather, old rubber inner tubes, etc., to repair/replace/rebuild your pump.
> 
> Don't think I'd get too many baths if I had to stroke sixty times a minute to get 5 gallons max...


I agree there will be a lot of labor on hand. With five, I might take a bath once a week. Now with 13.5 gpm with just 19 strokes, I think I can take a bath every day if needed. At least, that's what can be pumped now.

[ame]http://youtu.be/JGmCVlieEj0[/ame]


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Do I smell a sneaky sales pitch? This thread keeps popping up, but not by popular demand.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Do I smell a sneaky sales pitch? This thread keeps popping up, but not by popular demand.


I think you may have hit the nail on the head Tom. 
If I did the pumping strokes in the above video, I would not be able to walk for a week.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

Possum Belly said:


> I think you may have hit the nail on the head Tom.
> If I did the pumping strokes in the above video, I would not be able to walk for a week.


Would you be able to walk if you did the same amount of strokes in the video below?

[ame]http://youtu.be/H2R1BxYPErI[/ame]


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Nope, most of the people my age or older, that I know, would not be able to bend that easily. Knees and back.


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## Phil V. (May 31, 2013)

A lot of farms had windmills do the pumping for them prior to electricity in my area. They had cisterns that the water was pumped into and pipes were run to the barn and house from there.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

Possum Belly said:


> Nope, most of the people my age or older, that I know, would not be able to bend that easily. Knees and back.


Well hopefully there can be adjustments made that can make it easy for anyone to use.

Thanks for the reply!


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

Phil V. said:


> A lot of farms had windmills do the pumping for them prior to electricity in my area. They had cisterns that the water was pumped into and pipes were run to the barn and house from there.


A windmill would be nice to have. I would like to have one to fill a pond and stock it with fish. That would be nice!


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

A lot of time and effort was spent in my younger years pulling water out of a well with a bucket and windlass...enough to do a family of 5, 2 dogs, 1 cat, 20 chicken or so, a mule, and maybe a steer or two depending on the time of year. Add to that chores of feeding 3 fireplaces back when winter was winter, feeding the animals, hoeing crops, and being ready for schoolwork too, didn't give a fellow much time for fun things. If I had to have a pump nowadays, I'd have one something like this; but with a smaller horse, and at a pace not so hectic as what you see here. Looks like one could keep a dedicated animal (small horse, ox, or a big goat) earning his keep and supplying enough water for all. 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCTpyNMQzz0[/ame]


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Do I smell a sneaky sales pitch? This thread keeps popping up, but not by popular demand.


I asked how much he was selling them for and never got a reply.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Possum Belly said:


> Nope, most of the people my age or older, that I know, would not be able to bend that easily. Knees and back.


My problem also!

This basically used a longer lever and both hands. This is an improvement, yes, but not a breakthrough! I often use longer levers for stuff.


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## Dahc (Feb 14, 2006)

terri9630 said:


> I asked how much he was selling them for and never got a reply.


Looks like base price is right around *cough* $6300.00 and parts and materials are still required. Also does not cover installation for those who can't do it themselves.

You need to fill out a form with the depth you want to pump from for a more accurate quote.

http://waterbuckpump.com/sample-price/



> Price: *$6,355* * For a limited time http://waterbuckpump.com/2013/06/13/why-is-the-waterbuck-pump-expensive-2/
> 
> 
> Some assembly required. The above sample price does not include a counter weight system we are designing for easier operation. The counterweight system is for 70&#8242; + deep well applications.
> ...


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

Terri said:


> My problem also!
> 
> This basically used a longer lever and both hands. This is an improvement, yes, but not a breakthrough! I often use longer levers for stuff.


A popular deep well pump on the market today claims 3 gpm with 60 cycles of the handle, at an 80" static level. They claim it takes a tall 200 pound man to get these results. This pump operates a 3" cylinder.

With the new pump, a skinny man in his 50s gets 13.5 gpm with just 19 cycles from a static water level of 80'. This pump operates a 4" cylinder, which is much harder to operate than a 3" cylinder.

In order to get 13.5 gpm from the popular deep well pump on the market today, it would take 270 cycles and 4 1/2 minutes of pumping time.

If you put a longer lever on the popular pump, it would still take 270 cycles and 4 1/2 minutes of pumping time.

The peak performance of a 12' windmill in gpm, is 13.8 operating a 4" cylinder. 

So, it is much more than an improvement!


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Solarman, what's your relationship to this pump? Sales? Manufacture? Both?

You've been running this sales pitch for about 8 months now, on and off.

Just curious, as other products pay good money to advertise their products here. I'd hate to see the site taken advantage of under false pretenses.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Solarman said:


> A popular deep well pump on the market today claims 3 gpm with 60 cycles of the handle, at an 80" static level. They claim it takes a tall 200 pound man to get these results. This pump operates a 3" cylinder.


Before the age of city water it was many a child's job to pump the water!

This is an improvement, yes, but not a breakthrough.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

Terri said:


> Before the age of city water it was many a child's job to pump the water!
> 
> This is an improvement, yes, but not a breakthrough.


It was amazing when the electric pump was invented. Water could now be pumped into water towers, then chemical treated and fluoride added, then delivered to the people through pipes. However, I do prefer mine fresh, right out of the well.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

foxfiredidit said:


> A lot of time and effort was spent in my younger years pulling water out of a well with a bucket and windlass...enough to do a family of 5, 2 dogs, 1 cat, 20 chicken or so, a mule, and maybe a steer or two depending on the time of year. Add to that chores of feeding 3 fireplaces back when winter was winter, feeding the animals, hoeing crops, and being ready for schoolwork too, didn't give a fellow much time for fun things. If I had to have a pump nowadays, I'd have one something like this; but with a smaller horse, and at a pace not so hectic as what you see here. Looks like one could keep a dedicated animal (small horse, ox, or a big goat) earning his keep and supplying enough water for all.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCTpyNMQzz0


Wow, considering your early life, I bet you won't have any problem getting through a SHTF period. Too bad a lot of these skills are becoming a lost art!

I too would like to use good ole horsepower to do chores around the homestead. That would be nice indeed!


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Solarman, what's your relationship to this pump? Sales? Manufacture? Both?
> 
> You've been running this sales pitch for about 8 months now, on and off.
> 
> Just curious, as other products pay good money to advertise their products here. I'd hate to see the site taken advantage of under false pretenses.


Tom,

Share an awesome invention that can greatly benefit homesteaders when the power goes off.


I am glad your pump works well for you.

Thanks for posting


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## mldrenen (Nov 29, 2007)

Solarman said:


> Tom,
> 
> Share an awesome invention that can greatly benefit homesteaders when the power goes off.



honestly, though.....what is your relationship to this company/product? sharing something like this, even if you are related to the enterprise, is acceptable and in the interest of preppers and homesteaders. but in all fairness, you have to disclose your involvement.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Solarman, what's your relationship to this pump? Sales? Manufacture? Both?
> 
> You've been running this sales pitch for about 8 months now, on and off.
> 
> Just curious, as other products pay good money to advertise their products here. I'd hate to see the site taken advantage of under false pretenses.





Solarman said:


> Tom,
> 
> Share an awesome invention that can greatly benefit homesteaders when the power goes off.
> 
> ...





mldrenen said:


> honestly, though.....what is your relationship to this company/product? sharing something like this, even if you are related to the enterprise, is acceptable and in the interest of preppers and homesteaders. but in all fairness, you have to disclose your involvement.


These sure seem like fair questions that deserve honest and strait forward answers. When someone avoids answering questions, it seems as they may have something to hide.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Solarman, are you related to obama? He doesn't like answering direct questions either.

It doesn't inspire confidence in a product when it's representative is less than truthful.

By the way, I have no connection to any pump company other than owning a very satisfactory supplemental hand pump.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

I am the inventor of the pump and just wanted to share with others the benefits of having a reliable hand pump.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Solarman said:


> I am the inventor of the pump and just wanted to share with others the benefits of having a reliable hand pump.


Fair enough. And as the inventor and maker, you deserve to be paid for your efforts.

What looks like a lot of effort now, in this day and age of electricity, will sure beat the heck out of dying of thirst or starvation after your garden dies when the wells stop producing. 

I'm an advocate now of surface water over wells. If you don't have surface water, you're always going to be at risk. If you have surface water, then you are still at risk but it gets lessened.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Solarman said:


> I am the inventor of the pump and just wanted to share with others the benefits of having a reliable hand pump.


Thank you for this information. Now we can determine the pump's viability, keeping in mind there is a vested interest in your input.

If I'm not misunderstanding, this forum is to exchange information and ideas in an effort to help others achieve the preparedness level they wish. My Patriot Supply used to sponsor this forum, and you always knew if his posts were to either let us know about a special sale, or helpful information about preparedness - even if it sometimes was contrary to his best interests i.e. seed saving.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Thank you for this information. Now we can determine the pump's viability, keeping in mind there is a vested interest in your input.
> 
> If I'm not misunderstanding, this forum is to exchange information and ideas in an effort to help others achieve the preparedness level they wish. My Patriot Supply used to sponsor this forum, and you always knew if his posts were to either let us know about a special sale, or helpful information about preparedness - even if it sometimes was contrary to his best interests i.e. seed saving.


Thank you!

I am also about preparedness and sharing useful information. In fact, I am getting ready to post an instructional video on how to remove a well pump with 140' of 2" pipe safely without the use of a boom truck. The equipment I will be using is in the picture below. The video will give people an idea how to remove their submersible well pump if they wish to install a hand pump or use a well bucket.


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## Solarman (Sep 26, 2011)

Ernie said:


> Fair enough. And as the inventor and maker, you deserve to be paid for your efforts.
> 
> What looks like a lot of effort now, in this day and age of electricity, will sure beat the heck out of dying of thirst or starvation after your garden dies when the wells stop producing.
> 
> I'm an advocate now of surface water over wells. If you don't have surface water, you're always going to be at risk. If you have surface water, then you are still at risk but it gets lessened.


Thank you for pointing out that the effort required to pump water would certainly seem less strenuous if electricity wasn't not so available as it is now.

I agree that surface water is a good choice. Even though the Earth is nearly covered in water, only 3 percent of it is fresh water. And, it is diminishing rapidly worldwide.


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