# Cattle as an investment, better than Gold & Silver?



## Faith Farm (Dec 13, 2004)

Everyone is aware of the economic dangers out there and the fear of the
collapse of our economy in the near future. I believe farmers will fare better 
than most because food is the #1 necessity and farmland produces life from 
the ground as GOD designed it to be. This past year gave us a glimce of what 
livestock prices will be when the worst of the changes occures. Farmland and 
what it produces will be the strongest and safest haven of wealth. Farmers 
need to prepare their operations to be more self sufficient, less reliant on 
purchased grains, energy independent and become better entrapenures to 
deal with the demand to be.
I have switched from a cow calf operation to stocker calfs. Physically I am 
unable to maintain several farms to maintain my 120+ cattle operation. 
Recently I purchased several 350 lb bull calfs which I castrated, to raise for 
sale early next year. We have 7 milk cows to service a herd share customer
base at farmers in market in Richmond, Va. Grassfed beef, pork, chicken and
raw milk has given us a healthy customer base to draw from. 
I believe martial law may occure when the bubble bursts, so dealing with 
riots and hungry people may be a challange.
This thread is put out here for discussion, ideas and a venu for all our welfare. 
Please, no blaming for whats to come just helps for all us farmers and homesteaders.
God Bless,
Paul


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## cedarvalley (Feb 28, 2012)

I believe the farm is the most secure place to be in these unsure times we live in. The downturn in this economy has cost my family dearly in lost jobs, thank God we have this farm to provide food and at least a small income. Will times get so bad that we have riots and marshall law? Only time will tell.


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## ycanchu2 (Oct 21, 2011)

Faith Farm said:


> Everyone is aware of the economic dangers out there and the fear of the
> collapse of our economy in the near future. I believe farmers will fare better
> than most because food is the #1 necessity and farmland produces life from
> the ground as GOD designed it to be. This past year gave us a glimce of what
> ...


You certainly can't eat Silver and Gold! IMO having things to barter with...i.e. necesities of life. Roman soldiers were payed wages in Salt. Bartering is not a bad thing to practice doing now if you can find those who will. Neighbors trading things trading help...the way they used to do in the old days.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

I do not recommend golden calves.

I am not a fincancial planner, and I don't play one on TV. But I would be careful not to be caught with a bunch of cash at this point in time. I feel slightly more comfort having $ in cattle and land. But I confess that in one of the worst case scenarios I can fathom, owning land and cattle would be pointless.


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## ycanchu2 (Oct 21, 2011)

CrownRanch said:


> I do not recommend golden calves.
> 
> I am not a fincancial planner, and I don't play one on TV. But I would be careful not to be caught with a bunch of cash at this point in time. I feel slightly more comfort having $ in cattle and land. But I confess that in one of the worst case scenarios I can fathom, owning land and cattle would be pointless.


I think I may need some interpretation on the paragraph above.


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## ramiller5675 (Mar 31, 2009)

If the economy collapses and martial law is declared, those cattle and probably the land ain't gonna be worth anything even if you can hold on to them. 

And, if nobody has any money or the money is just a bunch of worthless paper, food riots and hungry people will be the least of your worries regardless of how good of an "entrapenure" you are.


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## cedarvalley (Feb 28, 2012)

ramiller5675 said:


> If the economy collapses and martial law is declared, those cattle and probably the land ain't gonna be worth anything even if you can hold on to them.
> 
> And, if nobody has any money or the money is just a bunch of worthless paper, food riots and hungry people will be the least of your worries regardless of how good of an "entrapenure" you are.


I believe they would be most valuable as food and a strong bartering item in this situation, as long as you have the ability to protect those assets with force if neccesary.....:runforhills:


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

A man with a hungry family will get food or die.....so you will have to watch your cattle 24 / 7 and the garden and the house.....you will need to have families or groups together to protect all this or it will be gone...

plus if you butcher a cow how will you keep it from spoiling.....I see the garden canned and put in the protected house more valuable than anything...and you could do that in the city


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

cedarvalley said:


> I believe they would be most valuable as food and a strong bartering item in this situation, as long as you have the ability to protect those assets with force if neccesary.....:runforhills:


I am a hunter I see no way to protect everything ...... as in a man walking out of the house or working in the garden finding a man pointing a gun at you what do you do then give it to them or die


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

Agree 



ramiller5675 said:


> if the economy collapses and martial law is declared, those cattle and probably the land ain't gonna be worth anything even if you can hold on to them.
> 
> And, if nobody has any money or the money is just a bunch of worthless paper, food riots and hungry people will be the least of your worries regardless of how good of an "entrapenure" you are.


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## Faith Farm (Dec 13, 2004)

I am not a dooms day-er with no hope but history is a good guide. WW1 & 2 farmers fared better than city folk. All might have been lost, house, barn, livestock, etc but the land was still there to work. Planning for the worst and hoping for the best is a sound strategy. A fresh water supply, green house, outside garden, milk cow, laying hens, a few hogs, reliable and trustworthy neighbors are all crucial to ones survival IMO.
A few silver coins won't hurt either.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Raising cattle is a business, not an investment. Gold and silver if done right can be a hedge against inflation.

Think about things like how many bales of hay will be needed to get my jar of coins through the winter? How ling can my coins go without water?

If I lock a calf in my closet and ignere in for a year how much will it be worth then?

It's apples and oranges, not at all the same.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

You can't eat gold and silver but then you don't have to feed and protect it either.


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## RedDirt Cowgirl (Sep 21, 2010)

Well, by leaving a cow-calf operation to go for stocker calves you've put yourself in a market dependent situation. Your doomsday apple doesn't match your customer base orange, like Edcopp sez. Self sufficiency? Hard for modern folks to imagine what that's like.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

ycanchu2 said:


> I think I may need some interpretation on the paragraph above.





CrownRanch said:


> I do not recommend golden calves.


O.T. fun with the topic of the thread.



CrownRanch said:


> I am not a fincancial planner, and I don't play one on TV. But I would be careful not to be caught with a bunch of cash at this point in time. I feel slightly more comfort having $ in cattle and land. But I confess that in one of the worst case scenarios I can fathom, owning land and cattle would be pointless.


That does sound a bit like gibberish. My explaination probably will too. My answer to the OPs question is based on the assumption that he is buying gold--or cattle--in anticipation of extreme economic woe. For me the homestead is a "going concern". I wake up each day and try to make life here easier/better than the day before. Outside of some very minimal prepping, I don't worry too much the spookier aspects of life. That said...While I am not a dooms-dayer, I do consider the general state of mankind when thinking through long term worst-case scenarios. History has not been kind to us. One thing that I think is possible--not likely, but possible--is that personal property would no longer be a socially acceptable situation, and hence, it would be pointless to own land and cattle because someone with bigger ammunition will take it away from me. (That 'someone' being the UN).

Given the choice of cash, gold/silver, and cattle, I would (and do) opt for cattle/land over the other two. It is my uneducated opinion that there will be a financial event or series of events that will erode the purchasing power of the dollar faster than it can be converted into hard assets, leaving a whole bucketload of moderately weathly people with a pile of nothing. My plan is to have the land/cattle to enjoy life if that doesn't happen, and use them to sustain life through it if it does happen. That is not the worst-case I was referring to above. My opinion on gold/silver in the event of an economic melt-down is that it won't be useful until society gets used to its new britches, and protecting it until then will be perilous. 

Short answer: Cattle can be profitable now and act as a hedge against the stuff hitting the fan.


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## ycanchu2 (Oct 21, 2011)

CrownRanch said:


> O.T. fun with the topic of the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I right with ya now.....you probably got it right.


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

CrownRanch said:


> One thing that I think is possible--not likely, but possible--is that personal property would no longer be a socially acceptable situation, and hence, it would be pointless to own land and cattle because someone with bigger ammunition will take it away from me. (That 'someone' being the UN).


Do you know about UN Agenda 21? If they have their way this will be the situation.


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## Kato2010 (Jun 24, 2012)

If a doomsday scenario ever did play out the most valuable thing in the world will be knowledge, not material goods. There are a lot of people out there who don't even know how to cook food any more, let alone grow it. It's pretty scarey when you think about it. 

As for cattle being better than gold, it's hard to say. Gold doesn't need to be fed, but then again, you can't eat it either, and gold doesn't reproduce itself. I wouldn't worry about the UN either. They spend more time bickering amongst themselves than the U.S. congressmen do. I think the best policy is to pay off debt, learn how to be self sufficient, and make good friends with the neighbours, because friends will be a most valuable asset to have.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

One well placed .50 cent round from 100-400 yards is all it takes to separate you from your herd. Enjoy the good times, read history, hug your family, PM's may not be edible, but they sure are portable.....Topside


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

I think gold and silver coins will become the the international money again in a sense they already have with the increase in trade. Its a lot easier to trade a coin for a cow , chicken, pig, gallon of fuel or more importantly ammunition then it is to walk around with a cow in your pocket.
Guns and ammo may trump all posessions. There are already a lot of people with guns that have no intention of feeding cows are canning a whole summers labor. They will form bands of raiders.
we live in a very rural very well armed community. We are off the grid and just starting our cattle operation. Taking it slow as this is our first rodeo. Learning a lot here.
two bred cow, one bred heifer and one steeer that will go in the freezer in the fall. Hopefully we will have a good friend come down from AK with a cooler full of salmon and we will send him home with a cooler full of grass fed angus.


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## farmgirl6 (May 20, 2011)

well, in a little microcasm of sorts, people have money to buy hay in some places, but hay is not available...so I suppose all the gold in the world does little good if nobody wants it, you can not eat it for sure, but I would think still a better investment than stocks and such..I think land is the most valuable asset.


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

myersfarm said:


> plus if you butcher a cow how will you keep it from spoiling.....


That is the perfect example of what this entire thread is about. Even the majority of "homesteaders" won't know how to survive. You don't have to freeze or can to keep meat from spoiling.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

From me to you, how about diversifing, that's really the ticket. I own cattle, goats, and chickens. Cattle would be a problem, goats not as big of a problem (very manageable) and would actually be much more of a barter item than a 1200# steer. Goats are more intelligent and eat a wider variety of forage. They also provide, milk, meat and some sanity...Topside.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

I'm with topside on the goats and chickens. Both of these creatures are able to forage and survive in less than favorable conditions. Plus, they are small enough that if slaughtered there shouldn't be much of a preserving problem. Together, these two provide milk, eggs, lard, hides for leather, feathers for pillows, and meat. 

I'm no doomsdayer either, however; a person needs to have a clue what their resources could/would be in the event of a problem. It's like knowing you have spare flashlight batteries when the storms coming.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

Cliff said:


> Do you know about UN Agenda 21? If they have their way this will be the situation.


Yes. Wicked actions based on wicked intentions from people in power kind of aggravates me. A long term chess match is nothing to sociopaths that want to be the last one standing.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

topside1 said:


> One well placed .50 cent round from 100-400 yards is all it takes to separate you from your herd. Enjoy the good times, read history, hug your family, PM's may not be edible, but they sure are portable.....Topside



I don't disagree. One well placed .50 cent round will separate me from anything, including PM's. But the eventualilty of death is not something that concerns me, I've got that base covered. (Dying will suck, though). If my neighbors will steal gas and hay today, I don't put too much stock in what they would do if everything went totally south. I have no intention of preparing for that day. If I were to do so, I would have to stop short of nothing less than 50 cal pill boxes on the roof of the barn, bunkers that would make the unibomber proud, and crazy things on the perimeter. That aint living. I think all discussion of investment is mute when considering total societal breakdown, unless you are investing in "being the last man standing". Not my cup-o-tea.

Given the choice, I would (and did) opt for cattle over gold/silver because cattle have upside in a positive economic scenario, in an economically depressed one, and WW. Gold has excellent upside if things head downhill, and scary downside if things head uphill. And holding the cash has downside in all directions. From a personal/intangible, raising cattle--for me--is challenging. Gold just sits there and twinkles. woohoo.

We do make expendiature on dairy and meat goats, milk cows, chickens, rabbits & veggie garden, but that is more like lifestyle diversity than financial diversification. I am trying to find an angle to make money on the meat goats, but everything else looks to be a push at best with *our * lackluster approach on them. We justify them because they bring much joy for the effort and money, and they appear to as useful now as they were during the last depression.




edcopp said:


> Raising cattle is a business, not an investment. Gold and silver if done right can be a hedge against inflation.


I agree with your comment on gold. But raising cattle is a business that starts with an investment in capital. If that capital comes from credit then it is slavery masquerading as business. The other thing that comes to mind here is that an investment in a cattle business can be a bad investment in any ecomomic condition if you don't know the front end of a cow from the back. That may be the case with me, but I hope to have enough time to figure out those details out before its too late.


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## Faith Farm (Dec 13, 2004)

Our cattle operation is a mix of cow/calf (we're cutting back not eliminating), stocker calf's when the price is down like now, hogs for meat and selling piglets @ $65+ each, layer hens for egg production, Jersey milk cows to attract customers for raw milk herd shares, broiler chickens, honey from local hives, Amish produce and a bunch more. We are diversified with livestock, productive land, precious metals, weapons and the skills and experience to use them, a strong customer base and most important, trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. A balanced portfolio you may say but I believe cattle and dairy is a reproducing investment especially in times of hardship. When the roaming gangs begin to roam, riots in the streets get out of hand and lawlessness turns loose we will honker down on the farm and our community which is armed will come together.
The use of a smoker, learning how to barter, stocking up for a 120 day supply of preserved food, water, a healthy green house, toilet paper, salt, lanterns and a lot more is just plain common sense IMO. Prayer is a natural occurrence like breathing which brings blessing, direction and deliverance. I believe in prayer, awareness, preparation, hope and the common sense the Lord gave me. When I see a storm coming I prepare, when I see people coming with guns, I run and hide. The purpose of this thread is for us to discuss, learn, teach, plan and encourage each other as we enter some difficult times ahead.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

Faith Farm said:


> . The purpose of this thread is for us to discuss, learn, teach, plan and encourage each other as we enter some difficult times ahead.


Oh see, here I go again responding to the title of a thread instead of the content. No wonder everyone looked at me crosseyed. I guess there is no 'undo' for some goofs.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

since it is discuss..if you put the fact a hungry man will do anything to feed his family.....and you will have to go outside to protect anything outside...and Topside saying from 100 to 400 yds hiding in the woods... 

the man with the animals is in more danger than of being killed than the hungry man with nothing


the man with the gold wanting to bargain...will be right there with him...somebody sells you something you give him gold....and he comes back the next day shoots you from 100 yds then asks your wife were the gold is


why I said in my first post 

you will need to have families or groups together to protect all this or it will be gone...


if we have a colaspse it will not take many years to get to this point..I also feel just not having a law officer in charge he might be the one wanting your stuff...everything is open


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

PaulNKS said:


> That is the perfect example of what this entire thread is about. Even the majority of "homesteaders" won't know how to survive. You don't have to freeze or can to keep meat from spoiling.


but taking care of a 1000 pounds of beef in 1 day or even 2 when you run out of meat in the 100 degree weather will be a job for just one family from live animal to preserved will be a job but if you do it in the winter it would be a whole lot easier.....my parnets salted there beef to preserve it in the winter but were will you get salt


I will just go with what worked in the past...and I do mean PAST...HUNTER GATHERS....and move on....



carrying gold around will get heavy herding animals will be tuff


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Not everyone can raise cattle. Sometimes they die.
Just about everyone can carry a gold coin around in their pocket.
A cow is sort of hard to hide. A gold coin is easy to hide.

Each person is better at one thing than they are at the other. If you are better at raising cattle then cattle would be the best choice. If you have problems keeping a cat alive it might be better to choose the gold.


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## stifflej (Aug 11, 2008)

Best investment is neither gold nor cattle, it is education. And I don't mean from colleges or universities, I mean the type you get from being a homesteader, how to raise a garden, preserve the bounty, raise animals, weld, build, any of the things most of us probably do every day. More and more folks are never taught how to be self sufficient, and if you have the knowledge and skills to do it, you will become a very valuable part of society if a collapse happens. That is my 2 cents worth.


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## Faith Farm (Dec 13, 2004)

stifflej said:


> Best investment is neither gold nor cattle, it is education. And I don't mean from colleges or universities, I mean the type you get from being a homesteader, how to raise a garden, preserve the bounty, raise animals, weld, build, any of the things most of us probably do every day. More and more folks are never taught how to be self sufficient, and if you have the knowledge and skills to do it, you will become a very valuable part of society if a collapse happens. That is my 2 cents worth.


Stiffle, you are so right. Education is the best investment as it cannot be taken from you and with it you will prosper. 

Cattle is an investment if you have the land both short term and long. If you don't own the land, rent it, if you don't have the cash to rent, barter calf's or other livestock or something you may have. People will always need to eat no matter what happens. Gold and Silver has a historical record of higher value when currency's drop and vis versa. The strategy is when to use your Gold & Silver to purchase things that have lost value due to the failed printing fiasco, all things go up and go down. Silver is the poorman's gold so I have invested in it as well as beef cows and dairy.
Cattle also goes both ways but it reproduces a healthy return as your base remains in place and your annual dividend (calf sales) provides cash flow even when the stock market crashes or the Gold and Silver bubble bursts.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

myersfarm said:


> A man with a hungry family will get food or die.....so you will have to watch your cattle 24 / 7 and the garden and the house.....you will need to have families or groups together to protect all this or it will be gone...
> 
> plus if you butcher a cow how will you keep it from spoiling.....I see the garden canned and put in the protected house more valuable than anything...and you could do that in the city


You can can beef and pork well any meat easy as beans


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

If you are farther out in the country you are safer.the hungry mobs from metroplitain areas have neither the knowledge or ablity to get more than a few miles away from a link card acepting grocery store gasoline will run out befor the masses get really hungrey most of the crimanals have never been out from under a street light and are afraid of the dark .being part of a comunity in the country would be the best bet knowing where to trade a bag of corn for a chicken not just figgering that the back room of the store produces all the nessitys of life.


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## ramiller5675 (Mar 31, 2009)

arnie said:


> If you are farther out in the country you are safer.the hungry mobs from metroplitain areas have neither the knowledge or ablity to get more than a few miles away from a link card acepting grocery store gasoline will run out befor the masses get really hungrey most of the crimanals have never been out from under a street light and are afraid of the dark .being part of a comunity in the country would be the best bet knowing where to trade a bag of corn for a chicken not just figgering that the back room of the store produces all the nessitys of life.


When I go deer hunting I go to where the deer are.

If it reaches the point were there are hungry mobs in the cities, the economy has collapsed, and martial law has been declared, I can guarantee that there are going to be "motivated" people that are going to reach your community sooner or later. 

They are going to go to where the "hunting" is good and living out in the country and knowing who wants to trade a chicken for a bag of corn ain't gonna help you when they show up.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

ramiller EXACTLY it might take them a while to get to you but bicycles and motoercycles...will get you there some time.....like I have said a hungry man will find a way to eat....


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

It feels good to have good neighbors that are well armed with a lot of ammo. If the big ass mistake gets reelected I will up the ammo supplies and get a couple mean ass dogs.


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## a'ightthen (Mar 17, 2012)

Wisdom and prayers. I seriously doubt any side winning.

Gold is more for, a chance at, wealth preservation. So ya have done well and have 100 1 oz gold coins ( at $1,623 each today) .... but you and yours are starving .... I have 4 chickens for sale at $40 each ..... how is this deal going to go down?

The flip-side being that I have 4 chickens that I can afford to sale ( with 30 others in the pen) .... and there are 20,000 folks wanting them ( migrants from the citified millions looking for food) ... many on the last straw. Each one plum serious about eating ... one way or another.

Considering the distance from a McDonalds ... there ain't many places left to hide.

Better that a collapse never happen. And should it, you might ought to look as hungry as the others.

Live for today .... plan for tomorrow .... but accept that all possibilities can not be covered.

Awful lot of Rambos in recliners looking for approval/justification


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

myersfarm said:


> ramiller EXACTLY it might take them a while to get to you but bicycles and motoercycles...will get you there some time.....like I have said a hungry man will find a way to eat....


What is this hungry man going to live on while he is pedaling around the country looking for me?


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## a'ightthen (Mar 17, 2012)

Perhaps this man is one of millions that has stockpiled MREs and fuel ( and ....) ... there has been a movement/realization.

He might be the fella that built a group ... intending on taking what is needed.

Again, I reflect to the McDonalds map .... you are not, apparently, far enough away that a tank of fuel ( in most vehicles) will not get one to a Big Mac.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Holding special coins/jewelry will pay off big once the dust settles and a degree of normalcy returns to the land. For example-purchasing farm land, or a apartment complex, new farm equipment, etc. Once again diversify is my best advice, commodities, consumables, tangibles....Topside


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I don't care for the jewelry thing much. The price of most of it is not for the value of the material as much it is the workmanship.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

pancho said:


> What is this hungry man going to live on while he is pedaling around the country looking for me?



He will be killing and eating the food from the neigbor thats 10 miles from you then 8 miles then 5 and plus you will be saving your food to last a long time and he will be eating all he can every day and moving to the next farm...he will get there sooner or later

Plus he will be sleeping all night long since he has nothing to protect.....but you will be up all hours of the night check on things even if you have dogs


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

someone's post gave me another idea if you barter...you have a $50 coin of gold somebody else has just one chicken that he knows you have gold and nothing else to eat ...he wants $25 for the chicken...do you give the coin for the chicken or do you cut coin in half or go hungry...not much of a investment saving $25 in gold so you can eat a chicken


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Might want to try sleeping with one eye open....Enjoy the weekend, zombie free.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

myersfarm said:


> He will be killing and eating the food from the neigbor thats 10 miles from you then 8 miles then 5 and plus you will be saving your food to last a long time and he will be eating all he can every day and moving to the next farm...he will get there sooner or later
> 
> Plus he will be sleeping all night long since he has nothing to protect.....but you will be up all hours of the night check on things even if you have dogs


Must be a lot of dumb people between him and me. I wouldn't expect them to last very long if a person could just come pedaling up and take everything they have.
It might be a little different when he gets here. I would hope thos between me and him would be better prepared.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

myersfarm said:


> someone's post gave me another idea if you barter...you have a $50 coin of gold somebody else has just one chicken that he knows you have gold and nothing else to eat ...he wants $25 for the chicken...do you give the coin for the chicken or do you cut coin in half or go hungry...not much of a investment saving $25 in gold so you can eat a chicken


You take your gold and look for another person with a extra chicken. That is one advantage of gold. You can put it in your pocket and go on down the road. Hard to put very many chickens in your pocket.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

no he will pedal to the woods close to your house and one morning when you opened the door and stepped out from 100 to 1500 yards away you will not see him but he will see you and you die and he can lay there all day waiting for that shot......just like a army sniper in fact he might be one ......with food and water in his pockets...and wait till all step out because you will not know if he moved on or is still there


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

pancho said:


> You take your gold and look for another person with a extra chicken. That is one advantage of gold. You can put it in your pocket and go on down the road. Hard to put very many chickens in your pocket.


and when you turn your back to go he shots you since you do have the gold he wants


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## ramiller5675 (Mar 31, 2009)

pancho said:


> Must be a lot of dumb people between him and me. I wouldn't expect them to last very long if a person could just come pedaling up and take everything they have.
> It might be a little different when he gets here. I would hope thos between me and him would be better prepared.


The best and quickest way to lose a fight is to underestimate your opponent.

The most dangerous type of person you would be facing in a world that is starving to death is going to be that good-looking 18 year old girl, that baby-faced 14 year old boy, that worn-out looking 68 year old man, that worried-looking 35 year woman with the two little kids, or your neighbor that is still holding a grudge against you.

Hoping that those between you and a threat are smart and prepared to stand up to that threat, and believing that the threat is dumb and unprepared doesn't sound like a good plan to me.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

myersfarm said:


> no he will pedal to the woods close to your house and one morning when you opened the door and stepped out from 100 to 1500 yards away you will not see him but he will see you and you die and he can lay there all day waiting for that shot......just like a army sniper in fact he might be one ......with food and water in his pockets...and wait till all step out because you will not know if he moved on or is still there


Think I will start using the back door.
That might put a crimp in his plan.
Around my house if you are 100 yards away you can't even see my house, much less me coming out of some door.
If you are 1500 yards away you will starve to death waiting to get a look at me.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

myersfarm said:


> and when you turn your back to go he shots you since you do have the gold he wants


You need to hang around a smarter crowd.
Even today I don't put all of my money out for a person to see before I make a deal, or after.
What would stop me from shooting both him and his chicken when I first see him?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

ramiller5675 said:


> The best and quickest way to lose a fight is to underestimate your opponent.
> 
> The most dangerous type of person you would be facing in a world that is starving to death is going to be that good-looking 18 year old girl, that baby-faced 14 year old boy, that worn-out looking 68 year old man, that worried-looking 35 year woman with the two little kids, or your neighbor that is still holding a grudge against you.
> 
> Hoping that those between you and a threat are smart and prepared to stand up to that threat, and believing that the threat is dumb and unprepared doesn't sound like a good plan to me.


I think you are talking about a different person than the one living in the city, unprepared, and looking for that bicycle after TSHTF.


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## ramiller5675 (Mar 31, 2009)

pancho said:


> I think you are talking about a different person than the one living in the city, unprepared, and looking for that bicycle after TSHTF.


That's exactly who is going to be coming.

I used to hear stories about the Great Depression from my grandparents, and even if they didn't have much food they would usually feed beggars that came to the farmhouse because if you didn't there was a good chance that your barn would burn down. Or, some of your livestock would be killed and left for dead out of spite by those "poor beggars".

People didn't pull together and help those less fortunate, they gritted their teeth and made a deal with the less fortunate trying to protect what little they owned. 

And, if it reaches the point where people are starving, it isn't going to be as "civilized" as it was back then. 

If someone can't take your stuff because you're too smart for them, they'll set fire to the woods around your house and burn it to the ground out of spite. How would you protect yourself from a wildfire after the SHTF?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

ramiller5675 said:


> That's exactly who is going to be coming.
> 
> I used to hear stories about the Great Depression from my grandparents, and even if they didn't have much food they would usually feed beggars that came to the farmhouse because if you didn't there was a good chance that your barn would burn down. Or, some of your livestock would be killed and left for dead out of spite by those "poor beggars".
> 
> ...


Haven't you read about the people back then who helped and fed the less fortunate people had a mark placed near their house and notice near the railroads that told others what houses would feed them? There wasn't any reason to go to a place that would not feed them when they had directions to a place that would.

If things ever get that bad most of the people living in the cities will never make it much farther than the block they live on. There will be a few that decide to look elsewhere for food but they won't be a match to those already in place prepared for such a thing.

First they have to find transportation out of the city. That isn't going to be an easy job.

Second, they will have to decide what direction to take when they leave the city.

Third they will have to find someone that has food and valuables.

Fourth, they will have to find these people and not let the people know they are there.

Fifth, they will have to find a way to kill the other people.

Sixth, they will have to hope they can kill all of the other people they find.

Lots of things they will have to do. These things are not going to be that easy for aperson who has lived their life in a city.

I only have to do one thing. Protect myself from anyone who can do all of the above. I am willing to make that bet that I can. Really don't have any choice.


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## hillbilly123 (Jun 3, 2012)

If it gets that bad and you invested in cows I hope you invested in lead too, just sayin .


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

pancho said:


> You need to hang around a smarter crowd.
> Even today I don't put all of my money out for a person to see before I make a deal, or after.
> What would stop me from shooting both him and his chicken when I first see him?


so I guess you never heard of killing some one for the money in there pocket TODAY EVEN in the city


glad you have a back door ..that will work ..untill he sees you use it


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

myersfarm said:


> so I guess you never heard of killing some one for the money in there pocket TODAY EVEN in the city
> 
> 
> glad you have a back door ..that will work ..untill he sees you use it


My house has several outside doors, at least 6.


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## broncocasey (Nov 7, 2011)

New Orleans is a perfect example of shtf scenario. Most of the unprepared are idiots thats why they aren't prepared. They will lay around by the thousands waiting for a helicopter to fly by and drop rice or something. They will be herded into some arena of sorts and act like middle schoolers until the government regains control and gets their monthly check and food back on line so they can continue breeding like rabbits and continue the cycle. my point is they are far to lazy to get very far from their block. a couple of disgruntled locals would be the ones to watch for. every community has a few.


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

There will be roving bands of raiders qite possibly well armed and you had better be ready to shoot first and shoot to kill, shoot shut up and bury.
I can only like me you have neighbors of like mind, cant say any more


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## Faith Farm (Dec 13, 2004)

Lot's of shooting going on here. 
We are all being warned daily by the signs of the times, in the news, internet, our friends and neighbors. We need to examine what will work for each one of us in the big picture. Stock up on items to barter with our neighbors & folks in need, grow produce and raise livestock to feed our families, join or start neighborhood groups (militia) to protect and defend our community. 
I believe chaoes will rule until things settle down which may be 6 months of so but with several setbacks. The commodity market will do well as farmers will still be producing and people will need to be fed. The bible says a loaf of bread will cost a weeks wages so we will have a functioning society. I will hold my bible, family, neighbors and my guns very close during these times. 
The market for calfs is still low due to the drought so I may buy a few more calfs for an early next year sale. Buy when prices are low then sell when they rise. That's the plan here.


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## ramiller5675 (Mar 31, 2009)

Are you kidding?

The economy is going to be reduced to a barter system, most or all foodstuffs are going to come from subsistence farming, and militias are going to be providing the only security available.

And, all this "chaoes" is only going to last for 6 months and then everything will go back to normal because of what?

But, I'm still going to be able to haul a load of wheat or corn to the local elevator and they are going to send me a check in the mail because the commodity market is going to be just fine because people still gotta eat, and farmers will still be producing a crop in all this "chaoes" since fertilizer and fuel will still be available for some reason. 

And, in the midst of all this "chaoes" that you think is coming, you are going to start a stocker operation.

Once again, you're kidding aren't you?


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## Faith Farm (Dec 13, 2004)

Don't know how it will go but i"m planning for either way. If all goes to hell, what does it matter, every one for themselves. 
However, I plan and prepare to survive no matter what. 
Yes, stockers will work for me as will cow/calf's, hogs, poultry and other assets,


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## Windswept Hill (Nov 23, 2010)

Alaska said:


> It feels good to have good neighbors that are well armed with a lot of ammo. If the big ass mistake gets reelected I will up the ammo supplies and get a couple mean ass dogs.


You will probably have to buy the ammo one or two boxes at a time.

But this is a cattle forum so:

Having a three strand high tensile electric fence around the perimeter with horned cattle and a bull free ranging should serve as a slight deterrent.

CONTROL vs KAOS - who will be 'The Chief'?


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## opportunity (Mar 31, 2012)

Windswept Hill said:


> You will probably have to buy the ammo one or two boxes at a time.
> 
> But this is a cattle forum so:
> 
> ...


Having horned cattle and a bull with my two electric wires and five smooth ones kept the fuel in all my vehicals when everyone else in the area was robbed repeatedly last summer. The dog that protected the charger died though and we have had some problems, replaced the dog all is well


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## Faith Farm (Dec 13, 2004)

Windswept Hill said:


> You will probably have to buy the ammo one or two boxes at a time.
> 
> But this is a cattle forum so:
> 
> ...





opportunity said:


> Having horned cattle and a bull with my two electric wires and five smooth ones kept the fuel in all my vehicals when everyone else in the area was robbed repeatedly last summer. The dog that protected the charger died though and we have had some problems, replaced the dog all is well


What breed of horned cattle do you recommend?


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## Gabriel (Dec 2, 2008)

People, cattle are not predators, they are prey. A hungry man with a gun will not be deterred by any breed, horns or no horns. If I was that type, I'd sit in a tree waiting for the right time to take the shot, then wait for the other cattle to not be around before I slunk down and carved off what I could carry. 

There is no fool proof way to protect yourself. Mitigation, yes. Diversify your assets and plans and have a good local community to work with.


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