# Garand on the way



## Wanderer0101 (Jul 18, 2007)

Got an e-mail last night that said my CMP Garand was being shipped. It's the .308 version. As the CMP site says, "a completely refurbished rifle consisting of an original M1 Garand Springfield receiver, new production Criterion barrel, new production American Walnut stock and hand guards, and new web sling. Receiver and most other parts are refinished USGI, but some parts may be new manufacture. A .308 spacer block is installed to prevent the loading of a .30-06 round into the chamber." 

Took a couple of months. Should have it on Monday, Still can't believe they just Fed Ex it right to your door.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I have a friend that just recently got one of those from CMP.. His is in 30-06 though... It's a beautiful gun... 

You're gonna enjoy that...


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

ordered my service grade 30-06 M1 back the end of febuary and got it last week 

mine is one of the final run made in the 1950s post Korean war


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## LoneOak (Jun 4, 2007)

You have to be home to sign for it as Fed-Ex will not just leave it on the porch. They are shipped with adult signature required for delivery.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

yes but you get a phone call and a time they expect to be there , they were withing 15 minutes of the expected 12pm delivery it came at 11:45am

yes you have to sign and be ready to present ID 21 or over witch is interesting you only need to be 18 to buy one.

basically the same as if it were being delivered to a gun dealer , the fed ex guy sounded like he delivered a fair amount of guns just mainly to dealers , he was pretty cool he was telling me about his dads M1 carbine


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

i know everybody knows this, but just to remind, now for training, only garand load ammo. the true pronunciation is more like garr anne

load with thumb nail pointing down the barrel NOT toward the left side of the receiver if not , 12 months later you get your normal thumdnail back.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

John Garand was french Canadian, the way I heard it it was more like Ger-renn with a silent d or mostly silent d

but that it was Americanized buy the GI's using them to pronounce the A's as A's and not as the more of an E sound as it would be in french 

of course perhaps a french speaker would care to comment , I am most certainly no expert on french 

if you were to read the manual you would find that the manual instructs you to place the blade of your hand so that if the bolt starts closing on your thumb your finger hold it till your thumb gets clear 

I made up some dummy rounds and have been practicing it doesn't take long to get it quite fast but also keeping that thumb strait with the the barrel is a good idea.


I also read always load the clips , yes one of the few times it is appropriate to say clip , first round up on the left , apparently this is the way they came loaded in bandoliers and some experienced a hang up if the first was loaded on the right


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Not wild about those chamber-plug conversions. They can pull out (though) unlikely, and you'll never realize its full accuracy potential with that extra 1/2" of leade. 

It's a shame that they would convert it that way, anyway. Criterion is a Krieger brand, meaning it is a new-production barrel (and likely a ---- good quality one to boot), so they could have cut it with a .308 chamber to begin with. 

If accuracy is leuk-warm, I would consider attempting to have the plug pulled and convert it back to 30 gov't. 

If the spacer block they are referring to is in the mag well, rather than the chamber, then you can chalk it up to an erroneous description on their part (since the mag block won't really prevent you from trying to single load a .30-06), and disregard my point as moot.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

.....


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## wildcat6 (Apr 5, 2011)

Who exactly is CMP?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

wildcat6 said:


> Who exactly is CMP?


THE CIVILIAN MARKSMANSHIP PROGRAM
http://www.odcmp.com/

*The CMP Mission*
_To Promote Firearm Safety and Marksmanship Training 
With an Emphasis on Youth_
*Our Vision*
_That Every Youth in America Has the Opportunity to Participate in 
Firearm Safety and Marksmanship Programs_


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

I and several dozen others met his grandson several years ago at camp perry. the "Ger" he pronounced Gar as garry anyway it sure was not like the whole nation of USA pounces it which is ger ran. genius the later M14 was closer to his original design before the war department forced changes

the four fingers are outside the stock parallel to the action, pointing downward toward the bottom of the stock, "blade of the hand as Green says, little finger against the operating rod handle or lever, (i have never read the manual) but i am a cmp trained garand, springfield coach. the 2012 junior national garand champion is my son, he loves the garand and the history it represents,,,,besides being a hoot to shoot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=EelXZrtHIFY

the line officer and announcer is the nationally known Dick White 

i,m on dial up and cannot review the clip or remember if it shows details of enbloc change, i think its around 2 minutes into the video. in cmp competition they have to load an enbloc of two (under a closed bolt or overridden as we describe it) fire the two then reload a full enbloc (clip as *GREENCOUNTYPETE correctly points out* ) of eight. the total of ten rounds, a carryover of the historic 1903 days of 5 round clips. this is true of now with the AR rifle, mag of two followed by a mag of eight.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

with each M1 shipped you get the rifle in a cmp hard case (this is a nice plano plastics single rifle case , an empty chamber flag , a enbloc clip , and a manual that in bold white letter on a red background says *read this first !* so I did 

page 13 has a sympathetic warning about "M1thumb"


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

the new cases cost $30.oo if bought separate, in those days there was no case.... there was the manual, which we probably stashed unread somewhere (a personal character flaw, i admit) Hornady makes garand ammo for competitive (and anyone that wants it), we handload a down powered "clone" load. I know nothing of what the 308 load might be.,,,,Is it a "stock" 308 round? the enblocs are available from cmp at a good price, i would suggest buying a case of them.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I bought 1 box of American eagle garand ammo , going to see how it shoots with that , i also bought some brass , and am going to load up some 

if i can ever stop working and get to the range that is , I think i am going to put my foot down and declare 4th of July range day , well as soon as I am done marching in the parade and having the inlaws over for bbq


enblocs are back ordered at the cmp , i was on the phone with them friday, but order them they are expecting a shipment , I guess magazine madness extended to clips also.

I need to order some of the 2 round clips have you tried the 5 round enblocs i saw them also.

there are matches at a few places around the area closest is 30 miles but there is a nice one about 50 miles from here , i want to give it a try now i just need ammo , practice and the most difficult time.


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## wildcat6 (Apr 5, 2011)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> THE CIVILIAN MARKSMANSHIP PROGRAM
> http://www.odcmp.com/
> 
> *The CMP Mission*
> ...


 
Sounds like a good program. I will certainly check them out. They deliver right to your door without an ffl?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

wildcat6 said:


> Sounds like a good program. I will certainly check them out. They deliver right to your door without an ffl?



Yes in most states right to your door, it now depends on the state some states like NY now require an ffl, but either way you go thru all the same background checks , and you need an affiliated club to belong to , and you provide proof of citizenship ,your forms need to be notarized before you send them in the notary confirms that you are who you say you are and they send it fed-ex adult over 21 signature required.

oh and the wait my order was in the end of February , processed the first week of March , and i got my rifle the 3rd week of June , and you thought Californians 10 day wait was bad


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## Wanderer0101 (Jul 18, 2007)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> Yes in most states right to your door, it now depends on the state some states like NY now require an ffl, but either way you go thru all the same background checks , and you need an affiliated club to belong to , and you provide proof of citizenship ,your forms need to be notarized before you send them in the notary confirms that you are who you say you are and they send it fed-ex adult over 21 signature required.
> 
> oh and the wait my order was in the end of February , processed the first week of March , and i got my rifle the 3rd week of June , and you thought Californians 10 day wait was bad


I joined the Revolutionary War Veterans Association on line for $20 to meet the affiliated club requirement. The rest of the stuff took about 30 minutes but there's a notary down the hall so that made it easy.

Rifle arrived and it looks very good indeed.

I've got 5,000 rounds of .22 coming from CMP if they ever catch up on their orders.


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## Wanderer0101 (Jul 18, 2007)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Not wild about those chamber-plug conversions. They can pull out (though) unlikely, and you'll never realize its full accuracy potential with that extra 1/2" of leade.
> 
> It's a shame that they would convert it that way, anyway. Criterion is a Krieger brand, meaning it is a new-production barrel (and likely a ---- good quality one to boot), so they could have cut it with a .308 chamber to begin with.
> 
> ...


It's not a chamber plug conversion, the description is just a little wonky.


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## wildcat6 (Apr 5, 2011)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> Yes in most states right to your door, it now depends on the state some states like NY now require an ffl, but either way you go thru all the same background checks , and you need an affiliated club to belong to , and you provide proof of citizenship ,your forms need to be notarized before you send them in the notary confirms that you are who you say you are and they send it fed-ex adult over 21 signature required.
> 
> oh and the wait my order was in the end of February , processed the first week of March , and i got my rifle the 3rd week of June , and you thought Californians 10 day wait was bad


Ouch! That is a long wait!


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## wildcat6 (Apr 5, 2011)

Wanderer0101 said:


> I joined the Revolutionary War Veterans Association on line for $20 to meet the affiliated club requirement. The rest of the stuff took about 30 minutes but there's a notary down the hall so that made it easy.
> 
> Rifle arrived and it looks very good indeed.
> 
> I've got 5,000 rounds of .22 coming from CMP if they ever catch up on their orders.


How long did it take you to receive it?


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## wildcat6 (Apr 5, 2011)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> Yes in most states right to your door, it now depends on the state some states like NY now require an ffl, but either way you go thru all the same background checks , and you need an affiliated club to belong to , and you provide proof of citizenship ,your forms need to be notarized before you send them in the notary confirms that you are who you say you are and they send it fed-ex adult over 21 signature required.
> 
> oh and the wait my order was in the end of February , processed the first week of March , and i got my rifle the 3rd week of June , and you thought Californians 10 day wait was bad


I am an NRA member do they accept that?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

wildcat6 said:


> I am an NRA member do they accept that?



No , NRA doesn't count , you can do like wanderer and join a war vets association or any of the others that are listed on the cmp website as affiliated clubs , I am a 4H shooting sports instructor so that is my affiliated club even though it is not listed as one on the cmp web site , but i had to have my county agent write me a letter because we don't have membership cards with dates , i only have my certifications of training.

you also need proof of safety training , like hunters safety or a concealed carry license.

if you were honorably discharged form the armed services your DD214 covers you for training and affiliation , all the forms can be downloaded and printed , there is a check list and they are very good about returning calls and emails with specific questions that may not be covered in the forms.


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## wildcat6 (Apr 5, 2011)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> No , NRA doesn't count , you can do like wanderer and join a war vets association or any of the others that are listed on the cmp website as affiliated clubs , I am a 4H shooting sports instructor so that is my affiliated club even though it is not listed as one on the cmp web site , but i had to have my county agent write me a letter because we don't have membership cards with dates , i only have my certifications of training.
> 
> you also need proof of safety training , like hunters safety or a concealed carry license.
> 
> if you were honorably discharged form the armed services your DD214 covers you for training and affiliation , all the forms can be downloaded and printed , there is a check list and they are very good about returning calls and emails with specific questions that may not be covered in the forms.


That's cool. I will dig out my DD214 form then. Glad that covers both ends because the last time I had a hunters safety course was when I was 12.


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## wildcat6 (Apr 5, 2011)

I watched a review about it on youtube and it looked like you could get the service grade for $542. Not to bad.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

wildcat6 said:


> That's cool. I will dig out my DD214 form then. Glad that covers both ends because the last time I had a hunters safety course was when I was 12.


It doesn't matter when you took it , hunters safety never expires but i think your dd214 will cover you for both


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

wildcat6 said:


> I watched a review about it on youtube and it looked like you could get the service grade for $542. Not to bad.


current price is for service grade is 625 + 24.95 shipping but it does now include the case , the field grade is 525+ 24.95 shipping

is it worth the extra hundred ? 
a new barrel is 250 or so , so i figured it was if i got a better barrel


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

it depends on what you want it for. the rack grade will usually hold the ten ring on a 200 yard target. with good ammo. the new barrel is the best the garand has to offer in the target shooting arena. 

it takes a bunch of work to make the garand a really accurate rifle as in the 1903 quality. its barrel is too small in diameter with too much moving stuff hung on the end of it. but fun to shoot.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

wanderer , did they give you numbers on what your muzzle and throat gauged 

I ask because i saw a barrel for sale listed as new , but it had 0.9 in the muzzle and 2 in the throat as it's measurements

so i was wondering if the new citron barrel on yours gauged 0,0 or if they were gut a little over in the throat 

my service grade HRA jan 1955 barrel came in 1in the muzzle 2 in the throat I don't think it saw much use but hard to say the barrel and the reciver do not match sn# so it could have been a run of replacement barrels used to rebuild the rifles after years of training in a national guard unit or lend lease 
my stock only bears the P in a circle cartouch and no other making me think it was a replacement stock


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I made it out yesterday evening , the 4th of july and got to shoot it , groups are great at 25 and 50 but fell apart at 100 , witch makes me think it is my eyes and the shadowy light as we were out about 6pm half the range was in shade half in light , well that or the sweat dripping in my eyes.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

you already know this but:

is front sight/gas cylinder tight on barrel?

opp rod not striking middle stock band?

rear sight elevation ratchet tight enough to not be moved by thumb pressure pressing down on it 

action tight in stock 

front stacking loop screw tight enough to prevent movement 

then basics

fingers away from opp rod area when firing. 

gooood cheek weld 

six o'clock or center of mass hold?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

ace admirer said:


> you already know this but:
> 
> is front sight/gas cylinder tight on barrel?
> 
> ...


6 oclock hold 

gas plug was about a 1/4 turn loose when i just checked it, the gas plug tool just came today , and the stacking swivel was flopping back and forth, the op rod shows no sign of rubbing , stock is tight to action no play, sight is tight 

i think it was me and and a new gun , and sweat dripping in my eyes , bad light and target with bad contrast 

i didn't shoot much last night , just wanted to get out on the 4th for some shooting, I need to head out and test some of my cast reloads tomorrow morning with good light 


the good new was my cast loads shot as well as the American Eagle ammo at 50 yards , but didn't lock back the bolt , this next batch I added 2gr more and am hoping for lock back.

my goal is a 200 yard cast boolit shooter , it gets a hole lot easier to practice at 22 cents around than a 1.20


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

Love Garands but never owned one. Always wanted one of the little tankers in .308.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

hmmm, cast i know nothing of, but no reason the correct one will not perform at 200,

the loose stacking loop will hurt scores some in a freely held rifle. it can be taped either forward or rearward position,,,for competition, the screw has to hold it in position (no extra stuff).

is the gas cylinder itself tight on the barrel or can it (therefore the sight) be moved clockwise and counterclockwise slightly? 

the gas piston nut or screw end will cause problems also, most notable is loosing it 

light changes will cause optical illusions on the front and rear sights and the target itself at 200.
sight black (carbide flame smoke) is used to reduce illusions and sharpen contrast. maybe a quarter minute of angle at 200.

sweat in the eyes could cause a little worse. 

i've seem goood competitive shooters that shoot 9's and tens blinded by a flag i use for training,(goood bone on bone and natural point of aim) thats a whole nother can of worms....


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I want to get a 200gr 1R ogive radius mold , but at the moment i am working with the 170 gr round flat mold i have for 30 

this bullet is just short of an inch long and is a bore rider for about 1/2 till the driving bands for better alignment , it was realty meant for the 30-30 but it works in most , and since I am only looking for about 2000fps , and not 2750

the 200 gr c309-200rf is supposed to be a close copy of the lyman 311299 i think it is that is a popular 30-06 cast boolit for cast shooters association matches 

not that copper jacketed bullets are hard on a barrel so much that lead are so easy ,that it would be hard to wear out a barrel with cast in a lifetime , and the brass doesn't stretch hardly at all maybe a .002 a firing makes for some long brass life 
easy on the shooter also


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

do you think you.ll get autoloading at 2000FPS with the 200 grain bullet?
not that single loading is a problem, we single load in the slow fire section of the CMP matches.

the garand and ars have floating fireing pins, most use the thicker primer metal of the military primers or wolf magnum primers as added insurance of out of battery ignition...others use a single round loader clip (plans to modify enbloc on net) or purchase a single round sled.

the cast rounds sounds interesting. gas checks?


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## wildcat6 (Apr 5, 2011)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> current price is for service grade is 625 + 24.95 shipping but it does now include the case , the field grade is 525+ 24.95 shipping
> 
> is it worth the extra hundred ?
> a new barrel is 250 or so , so i figured it was if i got a better barrel


I must have gotten the two grades confused. I heard that some of them come with a sling as well.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

maybe the correct or special grade do , but the service , fields and rack do not 
you can order all the slings you like with your rifle 

the cmp also has good prices on slings , m2 ball , gas plug tools , bayonets , replacement stocks , and much more , but the wait is still kind of long , this isn't exactly midway nitro express shipping


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

ace admirer said:


> do you think you.ll get autoloading at 2000FPS with the 200 grain bullet?
> not that single loading is a problem, we single load in the slow fire section of the CMP matches.
> 
> the garand and ars have floating fireing pins, most use the thicker primer metal of the military primers or wolf magnum primers as added insurance of out of battery ignition...others use a single round loader clip (plans to modify enbloc on net) or purchase a single round sled.
> ...


yes , gas checks if i am going over 1500 fps or the round seems to need it.
if single loading I wouldn't even need to use as much powder as I am using 

as for getting t to cycle , hundreds ,maybe thousands of other cast boolit shooters have it is fairly well documented start around 32gr and work up 2gr at a time till you get lock back on the last round most people find it between 34 and 36 gr of 4895 some use slower powders their calculations show that gas port pressure is different with cast because it has so much less sliding resistance also your not trying for 2750 so it will be less for that reason 

if you get the fit , lube , and everything correct it wouldn't be out of the question to get a 30-06 200 gr boolit going 2400 fps especially in a bolt gun I have seen results posted by a 1903 shooter who had a 3/4 inch 1 hole group left at at 100 yards from cast boolits doing just that a 200gr going 2400 fps he was showing off what his new lube recipe could do.

example my 30-30 fun load uses a small charge of medium burning pistol powder to propel the 170 gr cast boolit at about 1300 fps no gas check , it makes you follow thru cause the bullet spends longer in the barrel , but the noise is less , recoil is almost none , but it carries nearly the same energy as a 55 gr 223 at 100 yards and it rings the steel plate the same , it makes for very economical shooting i get right about 1000 rounds to the pound on those 2 cents for powder , 3.5 a primer , and the boolits sort of came with my last bake job. well a 5 gallon pail of boolit material
I hardly even count the brass as it lasts so long , as i traded 223 range scrap for half of that , people let 30-30 brass go a lot easier than 30-06 brass , I should probably anneal the necks at some point probably when i start splitting necks I have about 4 loadings on one batch of brass without a split yet.

pistols, cast is great in a pistol I have 9mm brass on a 3-4 reload , most all of it was range pickup , 9mm cost is about 4.5 cents a round and since it is only going about 1000 fps it is fairly forgiving the pistol molds also come in 6 cavity molds and you can really drop some boolits fast with that , tumble in alox for lube and load on the turret 

if you shoot into a box of sand or wood chips or somthing to catch the boolits they are all recyclable also just remelt flux and cast , snow piles are a favorite , if you shoot into a big pile of snow come spring you just pick up the boolits you could almost reload them right back in cases and fire them again


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

34.5 gr of 4895 = operation and lock back , didn't seem to bad in accuracy either hard to tell with just 8 shot offhand , now i need to make up a bunch and start tuning the load


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

hmmm,,,i'm in the process of reloading for Camp Perry Nationals, garand and 1903, ar15 and k31 but anyway by caparison 47 grains 4895 behind 168 grain A-max. 

I have not seen a lb of 4895 offered in the past 7 months......wish we could get by on your formula..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

the Ed Harris 200 yard service rifle load was 2400 about 14-16gr depending on case volume for his 200 yard target load , for the 1903 or most any 30/31/32 caliber service rifle 

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?171929-2400-The-Load&highlight=harris+200+yard+target look down to the 11th post 

it's a good read


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## hefty lefty (Aug 22, 2013)

The M1 Garand rifle is very fussy as to ammunition and should only be fired with ammo in a narrow range of bullet weights and powders used. Even then, I believe all Garands should be fitted with one of the adjustable gas ports that are a bolt on accessory. 

This, and it is quite heavy. 

I don't know if any of the more common loads available at the gun stores are safe to fire in the Garand. I do remember seeing certain 30-06 ammo boxes clearly marked, "Not for use in the U.S. Rifle, M-1 (Garand)." 

Perhaps someone out there can provide better information based on knowledge of what's currently out there. I do know a few people do hunt with them and in most states that means they are NOT shooting GI ball ammo.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

you should use m1 ammo marked for m1 in 30-06 

the issue isn't bullet weight 

the issue is actually pressure at the gas port , which is about an inch and a half from the end of the barrel , to much pressure can bend an op rod as the M1 has a closed gas system that does not vent excess gas once it reaches a point in it's movement , all gas must come in thru and exit thru the gas port in the barrel.

308 or 7.62x51 nato does not have the case capacity to take advantage of slower burning powders like the 30-06 does .95 cc almost a full cubic centimeter more space 1/4 more , the ideal powders like 4895 , bl-c2 , varget, reloader 15 , are all safe medium burn rate rifle powders and you can't get enough of them in the cartridge with a safe load, even slower powders like reloader 19 and 22 , h4831, h4350,h414 and 4064 you just can't get enough of into the case to put it over pressure at the gas port 

that's kind of how 308 was born they realized they didn't need all the case capacity of the 30-06 and that with about 44gr of 4895 in a 308 they could move the same 150 gr projectile at 2750 fps as they could about 46gr in a 30-06 and in the 30-06 there was a bunch of room left in the case 1/4 more , the rifle needed to be longer in the action , and the case took more brass 

why use more brass , more steel and more powder to accomplish the same task , especially when the were trying to reduce the weight of the equipment so that they could carry more rounds


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

I shoot nothing but military surplus M2 ball in my Garands - both US and Greek. I have had a fairly easy time finding this ammo at gun shows and gun auctions. It works fine, but don't expect it to be anywhere as accurate as match loads.


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## hefty lefty (Aug 22, 2013)

Cabin Fever said:


> I shoot nothing but military surplus M2 ball in my Garands - both US and Greek. I have had a fairly easy time finding this ammo at gun shows and gun auctions. It works fine, but don't expect it to be anywhere as accurate as match loads.


 Is it pretty expensive?


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

hefty lefty said:


> Is it pretty expensive?


* Not when I bought it...mostly about 25Â¢/rd I even got some WWII armor-piercing M2 in spam cans (below), but I sold it for 4X more than I paid for it.*









*I haven't even opened this can yet....*


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