# does color matter on pyr puppies?



## luckyinkentucky (Feb 15, 2013)

A local ad has a litter of fullblooded pyr pups for sale, parents on premises. 2 pups are all white, the rest have some color. The white ones are mlre expensive. I thought I read that the coloring on the pups will disappear, is that true? Or would it be worth it to pay extra. Does the coloring matter? I need a guardian dog, not necessarily a show dog.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

A predator isn't going to care what color the dog is, neither will the sheep or goats care what color the dog is and the dog will have no idea what color it is. Color doesn't matter, and its ridiculous to charge more for a different colored pup and thats what has ruined so many breeds. I would question what these dogs are really being bred for, my guess would be its not for working ability. If they are just badger marked the color will fade as they mature.


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## 258Pots (Apr 23, 2015)

I have a white german shepard about 4 years old. The white gsd's are not akc register-able because white is a weak genetic color in GSD's. I don't know if the same is true for pyr's. 

Just noticed her left eye going foggy, I rescued her, so I didn't choose a white gsd and now this poor girl is going to go into her later years blind, will probably loose her hearing too, all because of a color...

She will have a ---- good life with me and my wife, not likely her first owner, f'ing humans...


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## wife89 (Jun 29, 2011)

Our Pyr has his badger marks still and he is 4 years old. I love his face!! I do have to say this, if you are getting a Pyr for working on the farm, find one that was born on a farm. Ours was with goats, chickens, and cats, and to this day will not mess with a single one. Even when kittens dive bomb him while he is sleeping and when the chickens try to eat his food. He just head butts them out of the way


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## luckyinkentucky (Feb 15, 2013)

Well the guy said they are on a working farm from working parents. He raises sheep and chickens, which is perfect since I have goats, sheep and chickens. This litter is sold out but I m on the list for the next litter.


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## luckyinkentucky (Feb 15, 2013)

I had a family here Sunday picking up a goat and they have Pyr's. She said that the pure white ones have more skin issues than one that has some color to it. True? Anybody have any experience with that? This visit opened up another possibility-may be trading a doeling for a pup....:thumb:


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## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

It seems odd that someone who claims to be offering dogs from working lines would be putting a premium on color. After all, isn't it his dogs' working ability which he is offering? It may be as simple as him being no fool, and catering to those who are, who do associate color with working ability. If so more power to him. As they say, if you think education is expensive, try ignorance. 

The Great Pyrenees breed Standard does allow for other colors or markings, although the breed should be all white or principally white. The preference may be for all white, as an unwritten agreement among the majority of breeders, despite what the Standard says. This discrimination occurs in other breeds, but I've never shown Pyrs so I can't say for sure if they do as well. I have seen Pyrs exhibited at shows with colored markings, usually around the head, but I've never paid much attention to how well they placed.


258Pots said:


> I have a white german shepard about 4 years old. The white gsd's are not akc register-able because white is a weak genetic color in GSD's. I don't know if the same is true for pyr's.
> 
> *This is incorrect. If the parents are purebred and registered, the offspring may as well, no matter the color. White German Shepherds, as well as other colors in other breeds which are disqualified per the Standard cannot be shown in breed competition, but as purebred offspring of the parents they can certainly be registered. *
> 
> ...


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Color may affect a dog or cat. Pure white cats are usually deaf because the color at the base of the ear is somehow connected with the formation of the internal ear. White instance, white in a Dobermann was a mutant gene, not a recessive gene.White/yellow Dobermanns are very sun sensitive. With a dog breed that is normally white, these problems don&#8217;t seem to occur.


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## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

Maura said:


> Color may affect a dog or cat. Pure white cats are usually deaf because the color at the base of the ear is somehow connected with the formation of the internal ear. White instance, white in a Dobermann was a mutant gene, not a recessive gene.White/yellow Dobermanns are very sun sensitive. With a dog breed that is normally white, these problems donât seem to occur.


Not quite. Blue eyed white cats are often deaf, but not 100% are. Odd eyed white cats have a high percentage, or they can be bilaterally deaf with the ear on the same side as the blue eye affected. All white cats with no blue eyes also have a higher percentage of deafness than colored cats. 

The genetics of white associated deafness are not fully understood, but there are several genes that have been implicated in different breeds of dogs. It is thought that the cells which give rise to the blood supply to the cochlea are associated with the production of melanin, and so in some white breeds and in some forms of albinism the lack of pigment in that area is the cause. That would be inside the ear canal, not at the base. If that were true, then many partially white colored cats would be deaf if white occurs around the ears.

White in Dobermans was first caused by a _mutation_ for albinism (not a mutant, this is science not science fiction), the same way that the original albino first occurs in every breed or species, with the exception of some birds and reptiles in which complete albinism can be bred for if it has not yet occurred spontaneously, by combining the correct genes. It actually is a simple recessive gene, same as most albinism. There are dozens of breeds which report white or other color associated deafness, and none of them are albinos.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

If they are selling the all white ones for more, makes me worry that they're breeding show dogs...


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## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

wiscto said:


> If they are selling the all white ones for more, makes me worry that they're breeding show dogs...


 You haven't been reading carefully. Pyrs can be shown with colors other than white. Higher prices charged for show quality dogs has more to do with type or conformation than color, unless the color in question is disqualifying or discriminated against, as previously stated.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Agriculture said:


> You haven't been reading carefully. Pyrs can be shown with colors other than white. Higher prices charged for show quality dogs has more to do with type or conformation than color, unless the color in question is disqualifying or discriminated against, as previously stated.


Well, actually pyrs can only be shown in white, with colored markings. You should have read the standard more carefully  Since they can only be shown in white, a solid white dog is preferred in the show ring over a white dog with colored markings. It is a well know fact that judges favor them and will place them ahead of dogs with better conformation that have solid markings. It doesn't just happen with Pyrenees, in most breeds the judges have a color preference that will do better in the ring. I think its safe to say Wiscto read just fine and made an educated guess that the white ones are being sold for a higher price as show prospects. Color certainly has an affect on the price of a show dog and often over confirmation. Someone breeding a working litter wouldn't place a dogs working ability on color.


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## Kraut76 (Nov 18, 2014)

I have noticed, that short haired dogs with a lot of white are more prone to skin problems, than long haired dogs.


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## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

JasoninMN said:


> Well, actually pyrs can only be shown in white, with colored markings. You should have read the standard more carefully  *Wrong. If you're going to misread what is written then you should read and write more clearly as well. They can be shown in white or white with other colors, which is what I wrote. Also notice in a previous post where I noted that they must be all white or principally white, which is the exact wording in the Standard. Also learn how to read and quote responses in context to the discusion.* Since they can only be shown in white, a solid white dog is preferred in the show ring over a white dog with colored markings. It is a well know fact that judges favor them and will place them ahead of dogs with better conformation that have solid markings. *Actually it is not a well known fact, unless you happen to show Pyrs, but I already mentioned the possibility anyway. Do I have to requote that as well?* It doesn't just happen with Pyrenees, in most breeds the judges have a color preference that will do better in the ring. *Most breeds? Some judges may have color preferences, but the most respectable ones understand that color does not take preference over type, unless it is written in the Standard. The most respected and honorable judges know to put their personal bias aside and judge based on the Standard, not what they like or dislike. I know that's a whole other discussion as to how often that occurs in dogs today, but the concept of ethics and judging is the same, in or out of dogs.* I think its safe to say Wiscto read just fine and made an educated guess that the white ones are being sold for a higher price as show prospects. Color certainly has an affect on the price of a show dog *only insofar as the proper color helps in part to determine show quailty, and improper color or markings does not *and often over confirmation. *Over conformation?? Where did you learn the basics of exhibiting and judging?* Someone breeding a working litter wouldn't place a dogs working ability on color.





> Someone breeding a working litter wouldn't place a dogs working ability on color.


No crap! Read the first sentence in my first post in this thread.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Just as I figured. Someone who corrects everyone else and calls them ignorant can't take being corrected. Thanks for the chuckle.


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## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

You must be a politician or work in mass media. Maybe a slick defense attorney? I got it, a government bureaucrat, that has to be it. Correct someone by saying the exact opposite of what they meant, and then gloat when they protest that you got it all wrong. Brilliant. Luckily my words are all there for people with better comprehension to see and understand.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

You're wrong, and you're out of line.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Agriculture said:


> The Great Pyrenees breed Standard does allow for other colors or markings, although the breed should be all white or principally white.


First you say this. Your wrong



Agriculture said:


> Pyrs can be shown with colors other than white.


Then This. Your wrong again. 



Agriculture said:


> If you're going to misread what is written then you should read and write more clearly as well. They can be shown in white or white with other colors, which is what I wrote. Also notice in a previous post where I noted that they must be all white or principally white, which is the exact wording in the Standard.


And now this. I read exactly what you wrote. Try again. 

Speaking of politicians you don't flip flop much eh?

This is the standard
C*olor: White or white with markings of gray, badger, reddish brown, or varying shades of tan. Markings of varying size may appear on the ears, head (including a full face mask), tail, and as a few body spots.
*
Do I *NEED* to say more? 



Agriculture said:


> Also learn how to read and quote responses in context to the discusion*.*


Follow your own advise about reading and quoting, your looking like a fool. Also learn how to use the quote button instead of adding bold text into the middle of others posts. 

Again thanks for the laugh. I would address how wrong you are on some other points, but I have a real life versus trying to be a online super star. http://www.homesteadingtoday.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

luckyinkentucky said:


> I had a family here Sunday picking up a goat and they have Pyr's. She said that the pure white ones have more skin issues than one that has some color to it. True? Anybody have any experience with that? This visit opened up another possibility-may be trading a doeling for a pup....:thumb:


I've had all white and one with badger markings and none of them had any skin issues at all.


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