# Where do you see the horse market going?



## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Where do you see the horse market going in your area and your breed/discipline in the next few years?

I have been looking at Craigslist and seeing some nice appearing horses at reasonable or cheap prices, or in some cases free. There have been more ads for wanted to buy hay than hay for sale. The whole horse market in our area seems pretty quiet. Actually pretty dead, even allow for the time of year.

I would like to breed a mare, my DH doesn't think it's a responsible thing to do when there are so many horses that need homes. On one hand I agree with him, on the other if some good horsemen don't raise good horses, there will be a lot of badly bred grade horses people are breeding because.............they are there. 

Are there any bright spots in your area? It seems like people have less money to spend on hobbies, and horses are an expensive one.


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## karenp (Jun 7, 2013)

Unless your mare and the stud are pretty special, (mean commercially valuable, not specially to you), it's not worth it. Too many good horses need homes.


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## 1sttimemom (Mar 1, 2005)

The market seems pretty flat about everywhere. I suppose your choice to breed or not depends on your plans for the foal. If you mostly plan to sell for a profit you might have to really consider the sire/dam value and how in demand are offspring from similar matings. If you are breeding for a replacement for your own horse or to preserve rare bloodlines, etc then you have other things to consider. Honestly, you can probably find a foal cheaper than you can breed/raise one in todays market if you are just wanting to raise one for the experience. People will have all kinds of opinions. You will have to weight your options and plan accordingly.


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## mrs whodunit (Feb 3, 2012)

When I went to the livestock auction a few weeks ago I was surprised to see that horses where selling between $300-400. A few months ago they where all under $100. I imagine it was to do with the horse slaughter?

Still seeing free or cheap horses on craiglist around here.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

It's been so long since I paid any attention to the horse market that I don't know for sure but I'd say it's still not good in this area. I peruse the classifieds of 3 area newspapers and it's rare to even see a horse for sale ad in them and I don't look at Craigslist.

Hay, on the other hand, is still pretty easy to find. Here is an example of this weeks ads in the one that usually has the most.
http://www.gbpnews.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=60


The link only takes you to classifieds and then you have to click on feed and seed. It wouldn't link directly to that area.


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## rlahaise (Jan 30, 2014)

Lots of well bred, well trained horses of all ages on the market here. As noted above unless you have something pretty special in your mare and stud then your probably just adding to a already flooded market.

If you have the skills to do some quality training you might consider picking up a horse with good bloodlines that needs work, train it up and put some miles on it and you might make a few $ and save a horse to boot.
I have seen some pretty nice animals at auction ridden into the arena with a halter that ended up going to meat buyers.. young and untrained horses often go home with the owner since they don't have enough weight to provide any value as meat..

My $0.02


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I've never been much of a believer in "too many horses need a home" being a reason not to breed top quality horses. Unfortunately, I've seen a great number of the horses needing a home and the big majority of them do not meet my personal criteria ... they aren't what I would be looking for.

With my specific type of horse/pony I've seen a slight upward trend over the last three years or so and I don't see any reason for that to change. I'm actually marketing one of the most 'difficult' ages ... I need to sell my foals as weanlings as there is no way I can justify keeping them for 3 years and starting them under saddle as I'm no longer able to ride green horses myself.

I did downsize drastically, not breeding while I did that, and when I started breeding again, it was on a very slow basis. Two the first year, one a filly I kept but had a very attractive offer on her as well. Two the next year, again kept the filly and sold the colt and this past summer, again two, both colts that were sold, one in utero and one before he was a month old ... and at prices I felt were reasonable. Not the prices we expected 6 or 8 years ago, but not $250/offer ranges either. Expecting four foals this coming season, so that may tell me a bit more once they are here.

The market for the warmbloods/ sportponies is changing ... as all markets do ... but for the breeders that have the ability to shift with those markets, I think the market is improving. I do think in some breeds and disciplines the market is still heavily saturated and pretty flat, but there are some disciplines and breeds that are gaining some increased interest and popularity.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

You can still get about $6,000 for for a 10-year-old, broke team of Percheron or Belgian work horses. Surprising number of people out there looking to work a market garden with a calm, quiet team. Don't know what the show horse market is. I'm going to make a wild guess at maybe twice that for a well-bred show team that's been in the arena for a year or so.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

My local market is improving slowly but it was never truly horrible because we're close enough to ship to Canada. 

I'm of the mind that unless you have a _truly_ breeding quality mare or stallion that is aging and you simply have to continue the line, or outstanding stock (conformation, breeding, *and* performance records) there shouldn't be much breeding going on right now. Most areas of the country are overrun with neglected horses and even above average horses are not needed.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Sorry, our horse requirements are pretty breed specific and narrow. I would never expect to find a cheap or free horse who met those requirements locally. Just no one else around us who has those kind of horses, and that is a circle a couple hundred miles out around us. We buy from breeders or breed a colt if we need another.

Market here seems to depend on what kind of horse it is, with show types going for better money. Western horses prices are up from free or cheap, like the last few years. Still lots of Grade horses around, for low grade prices, under $400. They are not real pretty, but may be calm, dependable rides for 4-H kids or older adults with more pocket money to spend owning horses.

Price of hay is still a bit high, $5-6 for small square bales. You might find it for less hunting around, but it will take some work or knowing someone who knows someone with hay. So cost of feeding horse is more than most of them cost. Add in shots, farrier work, and owning a horse is not inexpensive.

We just bought two youngsters, weanling and 2yr old. Not cheap or free, and we have a while before they can be used. Replacements for the older horses we have who just keep getting older! Both seem quite nice, calm, good minded, easy to handle, just have to grow up still. We looked at a lot, but finally found one in Virginia, one in Pennsylvania, who ended up coming here.

If I had to suddenly get rid of ours, I would probably put them down. I just have not seen free horses coming to any good ends around here. People's idea of "basic care" is unbelievably low, horse is seldom treated well as the people have no skills in horse care or ablilities to actually ride or train horses. I would not send my horses out into that kind of care. Who actually appreciates anything you get free? 

If we do get one here that is not going to work for us, selling him seems to take about a year or so, to FINALLY get a person who appreciates him and can handle him with skill, is willing to pay his true value. All the buyers have VERY HAPPY with our guys, use and enjoy the HECK out of him! Just that selling is SO HARD showing him to folks who think they are so much better rider's than is true! Just not capable people out there. Guess we live in the wrong area, with Easterner's unwilling to come even if they LOVE the video on him.

Not sure how much the new slaughter plant will help prices hold on horses. At least with being able to sell to slaughter, the animals have SOME value, not throw-aways anymore. I have no problem with sending animals to slaughter, just want the trip and handling to BE HUMANE for the animal. 

So locally, horse prices are up a little, but these are the cheaper animals. If you want a specialty horse, show, jump, games, you have to go looking, and be willing to pay more for better quality.


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## fols (Nov 5, 2008)

Lots of horses here that are cheap or free and the slaughter auction in Ohio has 100-300 coming through a week. Quarter-type colt went for $60 at the auction today. The motto at our farm is we only breed what is edible and that does not include the horse.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Good horses bring good prices and always will but average horses with no special genetics or skills will always sell for average prices and average to below average horses are generally found on Craigslist or general horse auctions. 

Better quality horses are either bought privately but given your location, if you did opt to breed a mate, you're close enough to advertise in Alberta or BC.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

We would breed a very good mare, both performance and bloodline wise, to a top stallion, if we did it. I have ridden since I was very young, had my own horse/horses since I was 9, which was a long time ago. My DH rides as well, and used to judge. 
we showed up to and on the national level, however we don't like the direction the show horses have gone and haven't shown for years. We did breed at one time but haven't because the market was bad and again we didn't want to add to the problem. The foal would in all probability never be sold, our kids are all married with kids and horses and about half of our DGC ride as well as our one SIL and our DIL. There would be a place or several places for a foal we didn't want to keep. However, the ethics of the situation bother me. DH is pretty firm about how he feels, but could be persuaded to reconsider, maybe. However, again if responsible people don't breed, what is going to happen to the breeds we see today?


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

As I said above, I tend to discount the 'too many horses need a home' primarily because so many 'homeless horses' are homeless for a reason ... poor conformation, training issues, undesirable disposition, soundness problems ... and the list goes on.

If you are looking for a particular type/bloodline and have contacts with breeders that are producing the kind of horse you are looking for reliably, then you will probably be able to find a suitable youngster. Raise it like you would one you had bred, train it the same way and you will likely have what you want.

However, if you don't have those contacts, I'd say you are more likely to get exactly what you want as far as conformation, bloodlines and trainability if you breed one of your own mares.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

And there there are those special mares who never get bred because they were too busy doing their job to allowed the time off. In fact, it seems to be the ones people can't do anything with that get bred. The ol' "she might as well be a brood mare" - at least we'd get some use out of her.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

where I want to said:


> And there there are those special mares who never get bred because they were too busy doing their job to allowed the time off. In fact, it seems to be the ones people can't do anything with that get bred. The ol' "she might as well be a brood mare" - at least we'd get some use out of her.


I think the attitude toward mares depends some also on where/how you grew up. I know in the western ranches where I grew up, the big ranches only allowed geldings as ranch horses, no mares at all. The ranches that did raise their own horses kept a mare herd and those mares were usually never broke to saddle because there was no place to 'use' them. They were selected on the basis of bloodlines, conformation and soundness/type and later, culled on the quality of foals they produced, but they were never put under saddle.

The smaller places that did use mares (like we did, incidentally) were often small enough that the mares didn't get bred until they were older, if then, but they often did produce foals after they were retired from the hardest of the ranch work. The mare I grew up on had her first foal at 18 ... and had 4 more foals after that.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

where I want to said:


> And there there are those special mares who never get bred because they were too busy doing their job to allowed the time off. In fact, it seems to be the ones people can't do anything with that get bred. The ol' "she might as well be a brood mare" - at least we'd get some use out of her.


Yup, in a nutshell. What drives me insane are the broodmares that are barely halter broke. How do you evaluate a horse's mind when it's never had a dang bit of training? When it doesn't even have the basics of leading, tying, loading, or ground work of any kind? I think a broodmare should have outstanding conformation, temperament, breeding, and basic movement but to really know what she can do and how her mind works, she must be trained to do _something_. So, a performance record of some type is high on my list, there are mares that I would consider without a record but they are very few and far between. 

There are farms that are, and have been, putting top quality foals of every breed and discipline on the ground for decades. That isn't going to change.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Hay here is crazy.... first it is nearly impossible to find good non moldy hay here in the winter, so one has to stock up for the winter months.

Hay was running last year... $7.50 to $8.00 a 30 to 35lb bale or Orchard Grass, not including tax.
Taking in account we have to rent a trailer,, have a limited weight we can pull... 
And drive 1 1/2 hours one way to find good safe hay.... Hay is $$$$$$

There are not a lot of horses in this area.

When I look for a horse, I want to know its background, breeding, wither it has been healthy and I want quality.
Most free horse's would not fit the bill.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Doesn't everyone stock up on hay during the summer to use in the winter? If not, how do you guarantee you'll have enough good quality hay? The stress and anxiety would drive me slowly nuts if I didn't have all the hay I needed in the barn by Sept at the very latest. 

I pay $2.25 a bale (40-50 lbs) for excellent mixed grass hay out of the field, and need about 275 bales for two mares for the winter.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

IP, you are getting a heck of a deal on price for your hay. Be nice to your hay guy! We haven't seen $2.50 the bale, for several years, and that was in the spring, to clean a barn for coming summer's crop. Still good hay, glad to get it, but lots less than summer, out of the field hay. 

We were happy to pay $5 the bale, and they put it in the barn for us after some talking. paid separate for that. VERY nice hay, but we need a LOT more than your quantity, with 7 head to feed now. I think we had 700 bales going into winter, mostly first cut grassy mix, about 100 of second cut grass/alfalfa mix for the old horse. We do feed a lot of hay in the cold, going right thru it this year! Hay keeps them warmer than grain. 

We used to get a lot more hay, but always ended up carrying so much over that we are buying less now. Two of the horses are small, don't eat quite as much as the larger animals. $5-6 the bale is pretty common this season, after last year's short baling season of VERY high prices anywhere $7-$10 the bale. Prices didn't come down much this year, farmers LIKED that more expensive hay return. Small bales here are from 40#-60# the bale of grass mix. Alfalfa bales weigh a lot more than grass, but sure are too rich for our horses. My friend got 4 cuttings of alfalfa last year, only thing with long roots to grow in the drought! Rich and thick despite no rain.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

It's pretty much the going rate ($2.25-2.50) for mixed grass hay in my area- lots of hay fields, lots of people with horses and beef cattle. My hay guy loves me- I've paid in full when I get the hay every year for the last 8, I don't complain if I get the occasional bale that has a moldy spot, and I never whine about the price. Apparently, I'm the exception rather than the norm. 

I have very lush pasture and only have to feed hay from around November/December to April/May.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

In my opinion, buying horses made available because of somebody chose to breed simply because there is an abundance of poor to mediocre horses is an unreasonable expectation. Those breeding poor to mediocre horses have created their own problem and it is not up to me to accept that standard. 

The market may be soft but superior quality horses are more important than ever.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

If it were like the dog market, which is perpetually flooded and millions of dogs being killed each year, and I had an exceptional pair of work specific dogs that were tested clean for their breed maladies and for which there was a need, I would breed them regardless of the millions being killed. Breeding for work and quality shouldn't stop merely because there are millions breeding for extra pocket money or by accident. I've serious issues with a lot of breeders that have what they think is quality - even if it won in a show ring - but added nothing but a food and vet bill at home (unless of course I was looking for that).


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Tango, I'm not a huge fan if show ring proven but quite often, it is a way for breeders to gain recognition and gain exposure for their breeding programs. 

Showing at least proves a breeder has considered breed standards to some degree and is proud enough of their breeding program to allow scrutiny. I'm more frustrated with those who simply breed for pocket change or those that don't simply don't think beyond having a cute little baby in the pasture.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Many breeds including Icelandic's go to evaluations. 
Is Nothing like the American show ring. 
They do not allow extremes in breeding. They want the animals to be able to both show and be calm and well gaited on trails. They expect the horse to do it all. 

For horse prices.. if I had to replace either one of my Icelandic mares, with the training and miles they have right now, on this side of the country... expect to pay $12,000 or more.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

bergere said:


> Many breeds including Icelandic's go to evaluations.
> Is Nothing like the American show ring.
> They do not allow extremes in breeding. They want the animals to be able to both show and be calm and well gaited on trails. They expect the horse to do it all.


This is true of the warmbloods and the sportponies as well. The stallions must go through the 30/70 day stallion testing to be approved for breeding, mares and foals are evaluated and scored for conformation and gaits ... so there is a baseline for evaluation even if a stallion is not shown except for the stallion testing (which includes under saddle evaluation) and the mares are never put under saddle. Very different from the American breed registries.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

wr said:


> Tango, I'm not a huge fan if show ring proven but quite often, it is a way for breeders to gain recognition and gain exposure for their breeding programs.
> 
> Showing at least proves a breeder has considered breed standards to some degree and is proud enough of their breeding program to allow scrutiny. I'm more frustrated with those who simply breed for pocket change or those that don't simply don't think beyond having a cute little baby in the pasture.


I hear you wr. No offense to anyone intended. I know it costs a lot to adhere to breed standards and to show and it requires a lot of dedication. I'm sure there are many breeders doing a service to the breeds they work with: horse, dog, cat or cow.... it seemed to me that if you take just conformation though, in isolation of temperament or recessive traits or working ability (for those breeds that come from a working heritage) then it is just for "show." And that is what I was thinking when I posted. Some of you may remember the breeding of my APHA mare and the resulting "lethal white" angel that broke my heart.... many of my opinions have been wrought in the fire of my own mistakes.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

What is nice about a lot of the Icelandic Horse breeders, they are expected to have their mares evaled under saddle.
They don't just want a pretty horse, they want to make sure the horse has a good temperament and gaits. Only way to know that is to ride them. 

Of course, this doesn't help with the backyard, puppy mill breeders one finds on the western side of the county.


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## AugustRED (Apr 18, 2010)

I wouldn't worry too much about quality horses not getting produced - there will always be farms/individuals putting out top quality horses, most of which will command a good price regardless of the market. As I see it if the dam/sire are anything less than spectacular then the baby will probably be less then spectacular and average is already flooding the market. Someone else mentioned they don't breed if it's not edible - I can't afford spectacular horses so I instead breed meat rabbits - great way to get a baby fix, lol! It's a personal decision but me personally, if I can't produce a horse that everyone wants to own (even if I never _plan_ to sell it) I'll instead opt to buy one that's already been produced. I also get great satisfaction out of finding a diamond in the rough - a quality (but not maybe top quality) horse that has fallen through the cracks - and putting the time into making them a desirable and marketable animal. Maybe someday I'll have a mare I can feel good about breeding but likely not, she'd have to be one heck of a horse for me to continue sleeping soundly at night. The fact that someone else created the current mess doesn't help me much, I still feel bad for the animals they leave in their wake (although I'm also the type that would rather see them killed humanely than neglected)...


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## 1sttimemom (Mar 1, 2005)

bergere said:


> Of course, this doesn't help with the backyard, puppy mill breeders one finds on the western side of the county.


 Well, I have seen some pretty so-so looking horses come from all sides of the country so don't blame it all on westerners.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

1sttimemom said:


> Well, I have seen some pretty so-so looking horses come from all sides of the country so don't blame it all on westerners.


Yep ... I see a LOT of them in the KY/TN area. It may be because I'm not used to seeing gaited horses, particularly Tennessee Walkers (even the *good* ones look a bit strange to me) but I'd have to say that I saw a higher percentage of average to below average horses going through the sale rings here in KY than I ever did in the MT/WY/SD auctions I went to.


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## 1sttimemom (Mar 1, 2005)

LOL, gaited horses do sometimes have some "strange" conformation compared to normal breeds. The older TW mare I had bought a few yrs ago had a *very* sloping croup compared to what most horses have. And I have a gaited Morgan mare who also is more sloped than most morgans. And I suppose that is what helps them slide those hind feet so far up underneath as they have a huge overstep. The morgan mare not as much as the TW of course. 

A few yrs ago I boarded and helped sell a pair of spotted saddle mares for a friend who was moving. The young mare was I think 2 or 3 and developed a really bad lameness (ended up being huge hoof abcess from a cactus thorn!!). When my vet came out he had a hard time eval'ing her for lameness and finally said "those gaited horses move so weird anyway." The way they do that head nod which a non-gaited horse normally only does if they are limping. My vet is great but is a total western rancher type. Not many gaited horses here for him to work on.

But getting back to the market...I always check local auction results. The 2 livestock auctions near us run horses thru loose and sell by weight. They list them as by CWT (which is per 100 lbs for those not familiar) and tells weight and sort of generically type of horse (like paint gelding or palomino stud). Horses were going for $38-$55 per CWT. WAY better than last yr when I frequently saw results under $10 per CWT. I think the lowest I ever saw was for $6 per CWT. WOW!!!


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Excellent horses will gain value, the average and lower will lose value and the dreamers will breed Tony the Pony to everything that moves.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

1sttimemom said:


> Well, I have seen some pretty so-so looking horses come from all sides of the country so don't blame it all on westerners.


Just talking about the Icelandic Horse breed.
Have found and or helped with a number of large herd dumps....

I have not heard of 100+ Icelandics needing homes on the East coast.

There have been 4 major dumps of Icelandic's on the western side of the country the last few years, from CA to WA state,, with a 100 or more Icelandics from each farm.
plus many more smaller dumps...

So yes, in this case... because of more land and cheaper everything.. things can get out of hand.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Molly, if your husband is against breeding and you're unsure of the ethics of breeding right now, it probably is not something you should do right now. You could always do it in a couple years when you no longer have ethical doubts.


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