# Hi, I Am A Newb With A Question Regarding GPD's.



## Larca (May 31, 2012)

My first post here 

Okay, we have a bit of a coyote issue here, some here tend to be quite fearless and confrontational from what I have personally witnessed, not all that elusive and shy as many seem to believe. I am trying to find a good LGD and the Pyr is really standing out to me, it is ALMOST ideal to me. I even found a breeder in my province. I have done some research on the breed but from what I have learned, they have a tendency to wander off. I already have two large dogs who are superior watch/guard dogs, but they are runners, they cannot free roam because they would end up miles away from home and in trouble no doubt. I want something that would stick close by the pasture and be there if needed. Also I have some neighbors who threaten to shoot any dog who happens upon their property. I am afraid I will have this issue if I end up with a wanderer. I know a lot of people keep them as LGD's, but how are Pyr owners able to keep them on their property? or do they let them roam? I don't want to buy a dog only to end up keeping it confined. Any advise or input?


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

you have to keep them confined. That goes for ALL LGD breeds. These are dogs that for hundreds or thousands of years have been programed to roam for many miles with their flocks. So it's in their DNA to roam. Either fence or don't get one.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

They have to be contained with the livestock.


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## ONG2 (Sep 22, 2010)

Welcome Newby, we have an Anatolian Shepard, she can get through fence or gate but so far the only time she was off our property was when she chased something out of the neighbors hen house. 

Too bad about your neighbors threatening to shoot dogs on their property. Don't they have dogs themselves?


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Use an electric fence with the shock collars. I think they are called invisible fences? or something like that. PetSmart Brand are inexpensive and work well. Just buy extra collars for each dog.
Anatolians are a lot harder to keep in than GP. I had to put two zappers on the collar to keep the anatolian on the property.


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## Larca (May 31, 2012)

BarbadosSheep. I know of two specific dogs who do not leave their property ever, it is almost as if they are programmed to know the perimeters of where they can and cannot go. One is a GSD owned by the previous owner of my house, when they lived here, she would refuse to leave, was even reluctant to leave with her own owner. Another is a Border Collie(working dog) owned by another neighbor. His barrier is the woods and end of the driveway, he will go no further. I just wonder how these people do it? I mean, is there some kind of training that can be done to prevent the wandering, or is this some kind of rare instinct that some dogs just naturally have? I was just hoping that there would somehow be a way to have a Pyr who would also stick around.

Jason, I imagine I could probably do that, however I would have to change my method of fencing/enclosure.

Ong, sounds like a pretty good dog you have there. Those neighbors I speak of have every kind of animal imaginable except for dogs. My dogs got loose one day, I was all over the countryside looking for them. I asked him if he had seen them, he said no, but I better find them before he does because if he catches them near his livestock he would have to take them out. My dogs are good and gentle will all animals, they been around every type of animal whether it be ferrets, cats, rabbits, to horses and cows. They are no threat to anyone's animals. Makes me feel really ill at ease that they can be put in harms way if they get loose again.


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## Larca (May 31, 2012)

Mekasmom, we actually looked into that before. There is a fair sized amount of property I would like the dog to have, I would imagine that would run me into thousands, but still it is something I may take into consideration. thanks.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Larca said:


> BarbadosSheep. I know of two specific dogs who do not leave their property ever, it is almost as if they are programmed to know the perimeters of where they can and cannot go. One is a GSD owned by the previous owner of my house, when they lived here, she would refuse to leave, was even reluctant to leave with her own owner. Another is a Border Collie(working dog) owned by another neighbor. His barrier is the woods and end of the driveway, he will go no further. I just wonder how these people do it? I mean, is there some kind of training that can be done to prevent the wandering, or is this some kind of rare instinct that some dogs just naturally have? I was just hoping that there would somehow be a way to have a Pyr who would also stick around.


Oh, I know of many dogs who won't leave property. I have one myself....an awesome pitbull! But the livestock guardian breeds (LGD) are totally different and those are the dogs I was refering to. THOSE dogs are genetically programmed to wander. 

I know you are worried about your neighbor shooting your dogs but honestly since he does have livestock I understand totally where he is coming from. You know your dogs and know they won't hurt animals but your neighbor sees them as a threat. I have been in his shoes many times. I have had livestock killed and maimed by neighbor's "friendly" dogs too many times to count. So I have very limited patience for dogs on my property. Just the other day we had two large German Shepherds trying to get into one of my sheep pastures. My Anatolians were going crazy! I did not kill them but we did pepper them with birdshot and chased them down the road with a 4 wheeler. I don't think they will be back. If they had not been well kept dogs with collar though, they would not have left my property. It was obvious they were someone's pets that had probably escaped and I was in a good mood so I gave them a free pass......this time. Years of burying my dead animals have hardened my heart towards trespassing dogs. Your neighbor has probably had similar experiences so don't judge him too harshly for his lack of understanding towards your dogs.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

The way a dog acts on the property and to the animals belonging to his master can be quite a bit different than the way they act around another person's property and animals.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

Unless you have dog proof fencing, lots of acreage and no close by neighbors a Pyr is not for you. They do like to wander, and they lke to bark, all night long. Now if the dog is practically in your backyard I find it personally annoying to hear my dog bark and bark and bark and bark! But if you have close neighbors they are going to be even more annoyed and yours do not seem to be quite neighborly. 

I like Anatolians who are more homebodies and bark less. 
Mine are Pyr/Ana crosses, I like the combo but one is a bit more wandery and barky then the other. I hope as he gets older he realizes that not every tumbleweed is a coyote in disguise, not every bird in the sky is a hawk. 

Livestock Guardian Dogs and look up the other breeds. 
Do not get anything mixed with a non-guardian breed. Like an Aussie/Pyr mix, or Pyr whatever ran by mix. IMO those cannot be trusted to do the same job as guardian dogs and left with the livestock 24/7.


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## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

Our Labrador knows that his limits are the fence line, and the paved road. He never wanders. Our Pyr has the run of the field fenced goat pasture. He never digs out, but he could (my how that dog can dig.). He never gets out and seems well pleased.


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

What sort of livestock need guarding? What sort of fence do you currently have containing them? How much acreage is fenced off now? Hard to determine a breed without knowing the particulars of your situation.


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## Larca (May 31, 2012)

Batt, did you train your Lab to know the boundaries, or does he just stay naturally. I know I would love to solve the wandering issue I have with the two I have now.

Maybe I possibly solved my livestock guardian issue. A neighbor recommended getting a llama, as did the guy who I bought my goats and horse from, who keeps llamas for guarding purposes. I bought one of his(my favorite of them all actually) Its great because this llama is already well acquainted with my goats and horse and is already quite familiar with my kids and myself as we have often visited with him in the past. I have done lots of research on them as I do with any type of animal I bring home and think he will be the right fit here. However I don't understand how he can defend the herd against a coyote and would worry he could get hurt, but the guy I bought him from said it is not a issue and that the Llama is very capable of taking care of himself. In the meantime I am going to see how this works out, but if I end up finding myself ill at ease about the coyote population, I will focus back on my search for a good LGD as I am definitely not ruling out a Pyr.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

You can do whats often called "boundary" training with dogs so they don't go past a certain point. I have done this with every pet dog I have ever owned and it has worked well. What you need to do is walk the perimeter of your property with the dog so it starts getting an understanding of where its boundaries lie. You need to determine a line the the dog will make an easy association with, like a tree line, ditch fence line, utility po0les etc. on each side of the property. It may no be the property line, but it has to be something that marks a line for the dog so make an association with. So the next step is every time the dog crosses the boundary you correct it and make it come back to the right side of the line. Eventually it will catch on to were its allowed to go and once they do they learn it they are pretty dependable. What you have working against you is you have two dogs which are more inclined to roam and follow one another then a single dog. Also they are adults, a puppy is easier. The reason it works with labs, German shepherds etc is they are bred to obey commands and work closely with people. LGDs are bred to be independent workers and roam vast territories so I would no try it with one. Google "boundary training for dogs."


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## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

^^^ What JasoninMN said ^^^ Until they have the idea, you have to walk the lines with them and correct them EVERY TIME they cross the line. Really doesn't take that long but at first you need to do it every day. In my case, I needed the excercise anyway.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

My pit bull set her own boundries. I am not quite sure how she did such a great job either. We have a small pond maybe 400' from our house. It's outside of her invisible boundry so Bailey never, ever goes there unless WE go and invite her to come along. She LOVES that pond yet has never gone there without us. And when I walk next door to my daughter's house, there is an invisible line that Bailey won't cross unless I call her to cross it. Her boundry seems to be a 100' radius around the house.


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

I've used a guard llama with good results for several years. Now that my flock numbers have grown, I have added a guard dog. IMO, my llama could protect about 30 head of sheep. More than that, I thought it was too much to ask. The llama guards by intimidation and will actively pace the perimeter, and squeel when under direct threat. A llama can become quickly outnumbered by a pack of coyotes/dogs. 

Some llamas are great guards, others are not. I happen to have a good one. I am fortunate that it was lead trained as well. He wears a halter with a short tab clipped to it that I can grab when I need to move him from paddock to paddock. Most sheep will follow him without need for a herding dog, which is another convenience for the small flock holder.

Good luck to you.


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## CageFreeFamily (Jul 19, 2012)

Larca said:


> BarbadosSheep. I know of two specific dogs who do not leave their property ever, it is almost as if they are programmed to know the perimeters of where they can and cannot go.


We had one Pyr that roamed for about 1/2 mile. Unfortunately though 3 directions a 1/2 mile was still on our property, in one direction she was off the property in less than a 1/4 mile. We lost her. Our two males however, never leave the property. They hang at the highest point and survey the open space. They will patrol the perimeter near the forest when necessary, but mostly hang by the buildings. Neither has been a roamer. I can't say that I know what makes the difference. Our female was spayed, so no hormonal roaming. Dunno. I did do perimeter training with the pup starting at 8 weeks old, but our best LGD came to us as a rescue at 3 years old. He simply seemed to know where to be in relation to the flock, even in the days that the flock consisted only of human kids.

Breeding? Instinct? I couldn't say.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

My Pyrs all roamed when they were young, which was not a problem because we are far out and surrounded by public lands with no close neighbors. After about age two, they started sticking closer to home. No problems with barking all night but that might also be because there isn't a lot of distraction without neighbors around.


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