# SKS vs. Saiga



## NEOhioSmiths (Sep 28, 2007)

First off, I have read throught the "homestead firearms" thread, but figured I could start a new thread b/c I have a specific question about 2 rifles. I have several pistols, but am starting to get some long guns. Want something in 7.62x39 since it's cheap to shoot (cheap is relative), etc. (many reasons listed in the "I want another SKS thread). 

My question is - which would you go for SKS or Saiga? I like the milled receiver of the SKS, the fact that you can use stripper clips, the military heritage (seems to be a reliable and proven gun). As for the Saiga, it's new, has chrome-lined barrel, and I believe it can't be "slam-fired" since it does not have a floating pin (unlike the SKS). Is this a significant safety issue?

I know next to nothing about rifles. I want to purchase a 10/22 to plink with and something in 7.62x30 as a SHTF gun. Will eventually get multiples in this caliber.

Thoughts and recommendations on both are appreciated.


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## SW41Mag (Jan 28, 2007)

If you're just looking for something cheap to shoot have you considered the Russian, Mosin Nagant in full length or carbine? One of the gun shops around here has cases of the darn things for $85 each, yes I said $85 for a rifle, and ammo at $3/20 or $70/440 in a sealed tin. It is 7.62x54. I have ended up with one for each member of the family. These are accurate rifles that shoot a bullet you can hunt a moose with. I have taken mine up to the National Forest and shot quite well at 200+ yards.

There are also a lot of Mausers out on the market these days for less than $200. The 8mm mauser is also a hard hitting bullet and the ammo isn't badly priced either. Both are quite an accurate rifles, more so than the SKS. Personally if I just had to have a semi auto in 7.62x39 I would go with a AK and a bunch of 30 round mags. 

As for the 10/22... I know a lot of people love their 10/22's but my experience wasn't so hot. No matter what ammo or magazines I used, mine jammed every so often where my wifes supposedely POS Marlin 60 never jams and her model 60 was actually more accurate than my 10/22. I just got rid of it for a Henry Frontier Model in .22lr and I can't tell you how happy I am with that little lever action rifle. Shoots great with any ammo and the accuracy far exceeds my 10/22.


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## NEOhioSmiths (Sep 28, 2007)

The Mosin is also on my list, but I want an auto loader first. You can't beat the deal though - I saw 1200 rounds (7.62x54) for $200. Combine that with a good rifle for under $100 and you are set!


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

NEOhioSmiths said:


> The Mosin is also on my list, but I want an auto loader first. You can't beat the deal though - I saw 1200 rounds (7.62x54) for $200. Combine that with a good rifle for under $100 and you are set!


Fur Fin and Feather in Ashland had them for 79.00 bucks in their last circular.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Are these vintage Mosin Nagats?

I was loaned one of these for a hunting trip as a kid and found it to be a very impressive rifle. The one I used was WWII vintage and extremely accurate. I was considered a pretty good shot as a kid and put 5 rounds in an orange-sized hole with it at 175 yards (roughly). At the time, I remember it being a heavy rifle though - but I was 11 or 12 at the time and it did have a full military stock on it.

The guy who owned the rifle (a friend of my dad's) said it was the same rifle that the Russian snipers used.

I'd buy one in a heartbeat at that price.


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## bbbuddy (Jul 29, 2002)

I can't compare the sks and saiga, since I have never held or shot a saiga, but my sks is a VERY nice rifle. I am a 5'4" female and have no trouble holding it, the kick is negligible, and it is very accurate. I love it!
My husband was not too sure about why I wanted it, but now he wants one too, although the price went up alot since we bought mine...

I am 60, and my eyes are not what they once were, so anything shooting out to many hundreds of yards would be a waste for me.
If you want something that anyone in your family can shoot, the sks would work well!


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## OldGrouch (Jan 23, 2008)

I've shot several SKS, own several Saigas and have a 5' 2" 98 lb. daughter who owns, and shoots, a Mosin-Nagant M44 Carbine. For low cost reliable firearm... the M44 is hard to beat. Now the next part is subjective and just my thoughts, not challenging anyone else's opinion, I bought Saiga not a SKS. Reason: was able to get Centerfires, in several calibers, and a shotgun. Having several long guns so similar/familiar... is a big plus to me.

--Dwight


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

http://www.finfeatherfuroutfitters.com/fffcontent/adcontent/flyer.pdf (page 2) 

M91/30 Mosin Nagant.

I bought my Yugo SKS from them, it was in pretty good shape.

A great place to buy arms.


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## NEOhioSmiths (Sep 28, 2007)

Seedspreader - thanks. I saw that ad too. I live in Bath township - there's a show this weekend in Medina and it's supposed to rain on Saturday. My other dilemma (in addition to SKS vs. Saiga) is do I go to the show or just head down to FF&F. They have some other stuff I need down there too. Did you find the staff knowledgeable? Like I said before, I know next to nothing about long guns and would like good opinions to go along with quality firearms.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

NEOhioSmiths said:


> Seedspreader - thanks. I saw that ad too. I live in Bath township - there's a show this weekend in Medina and it's supposed to rain on Saturday. My other dilemma (in addition to SKS vs. Saiga) is do I go to the show or just head down to FF&F. They have some other stuff I need down there too. Did you find the staff knowledgeable? Like I said before, I know next to nothing about long guns and would like good opinions to go along with quality firearms.


Yeah, they are pretty knowledgeable, the gun show is very cool, but I find it actually overpriced vs. what I can get at FF&F.

Go here: http://www.surplusrifle.com/russianmosin189130/index.asp and learn all you can about the gun and you will know what to ask.

Here are a couple of good discussion about SKS vs. SAIGA. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=25205&pid=223199&st=0&#entry223199

and here:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-119540.html

If you are going for 7.62x39 like you said, i would lean toward the SKS... not because they are all that accurate, because they are accurate ENOUGH and unmodified there are some good things about them.

The stripper clips can be loaded while in the prone position while the Magazine will cause you to change position to reload. 

the SKS is very mod friendly. Plenty of stocks/accessories for it and it's built like a tank.

I think I may pick up one of the Mosin Nagant's though because at that price you just can't go wrong.

Read up on all the rifles at http://www.surplusrifle.com

It was on Surplus Rifle I learned all the ins and outs of my SKS.

I even found a cool little "fix" if you are having an SKS that's not ejecting cleanly. A paperclip around the gas tube ring fixes the problem right smartly.

It's why I like the SKS because there's not much to go wrong on them.

But I am a big guy also and the heavy gun actually is more suited to my shooting style.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Oh, and I wanted to add this too...

Take the FFF flyer with you for comparison purposes if you go to the gun show. Just so you can see what new prices are on some of the stuff.


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## NEOhioSmiths (Sep 28, 2007)

Seedspreader - thanks for all of the advice. One thing I liked about the SKS was the fact that you could use stripper clips. It seems that a lot of folks get a Saiga, then modify it to accept detachable mags, or buy a more expensive AK. However, if you do that, you have to spend a bunch for multiple mags. From what I understand, you can load pretty quickly with stripper clips. For the price difference between an SKS and a modified Saiga or AK I could buy 1000 rounds! 

I may just head down to FF&F. In the meantime, will read up from the links you sent.

Thanks again.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

I don't mean to hijack this thread and I'll start a new one if that's what people want.

For various reasons, I haven't owned a firearm for about 20 years. I'm not anti-gun - I grew up with them and even worked with them - I just haven't owned any. I plan to change that, but now I have kids and the biggest reason I haven't already bought anything is the need for a gun safe. Looking around, these things are expensive. Does anyone have any suggestions, recommendations, on safes that won't break the bank?


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

seedspreader, thanks, good sites, been doing some research on the Mosin Nagant my self.

With every one touting them , good deal for the money, cheap to shoot, I did pick up a M38 carbine and have been cleaning out the works. Good video on disassembly and cleaning the bolt.


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## cougargnw (Aug 6, 2007)

I have one of each. My SKS has a side folder stock and has never given me any trouble or pain shooting. My Saiga is just as reliable. Although, my Saiga s my goto gun. Mine does accept mags. It shoots 1.5 to 2.0 MOA all day long with a red dot scope. It is a bit of a pain to make them accept mags though,and its a part that could fail. I would say get one of each if funds allow.
As the Mosin goes, definatly pick one up. Cheap ammo and will drop any four legged game in North America. If I told you the MOA mine holds, I would be called a liar and Angie would come looking for me.


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## gunsmithgirl (Sep 28, 2003)

I would defiantly go Saiga! First Saiga is made by Izhmash and still ran and supervised by my hero (and the guy my DD is named after) Mikhail Kalashnikov!
I personally feel that the Saiga is also of better quality than an SKS.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

gunsmithgirl said:


> I would defiantly go Saiga! First Saiga is made by Izhmash and still ran and supervised by my hero (and the guy my DD is named after) Mikhail Kalashnikov!
> I personally feel that the Saiga is also of better quality than an SKS.


You know, it's a hang up I have... sheet metal receivers.

I know, I know the AK uses them, but I like the stout feel of the SKS. It's the only thing that has kept me from buying an AK up until know, or a Saiga.

Also, modding seems easier for the every day joe on the sks.


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## renloy (Oct 31, 2007)

A saiga is basically a wussified russian ak47. You can easily modify it into a military style rifle that takes 30rd mags AND its only 280ish in x39. The choice is obvious IMO.


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

I own Mosins. I own a Yugo SKS. I have shot the Saiga. All are good guns, but each has pluses and minuses.

The Mosin is inexpensive, sturdy, simple (an illiterate peasant can operate one) and in the eyes of some, homely weapon. The carbines kick like mules, but they are simple and reliable.

The SKS replaced the Mosin and is a simple, reliable semi-auto. Accurate with minimal recoil in original stock. The ammo was cheap before the Iraq war and its' cost has risen over the past couple of years. I really like mine. A little more care in cleaning is needed than the Mosin.

The Saiga is a sporterized version of the AK-47. Reliable, but I don't care for the "trigger slap" I feel when firing the gun. Recoil is more noticable than the SKS, but nowhere near the Mosins. More cleaning needs to be done than the Mosin. Similar to the SKS.

The 7.62x54r is much more powerful than the 7.62x39 and can be used to go after more game, but the 7.62x39 is more available from multiple manufacturers.

I hope that helps.


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## fishinsoap (Feb 22, 2008)

I am looking to get an SKS for a bunch of reasons. I have a really cool Mosin which collectors tell me is worth a little more (almost $200 as opposed to $100) than standard Mosins because it is one that the Fins took from the Russians after they booted them out and took over the arms depots the ruskies had. So it was made in Russia, but then modified by Finnish gunsmiths so it has both markings. I have only shot it a few times as I think it is better for me as a collector gun because of the pedigree. That being said, it is fun to shoot and very accurate. The kick is good, but not too bad. And as for looks, it aint winning any beauty pageants. I will be getting another Mosin for fun, but after I get the SKS.


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## NEOhioSmiths (Sep 28, 2007)

First off, thanks for all of the replies. I think I'll definetly pick up a Mosin (would prefer carbine) and then I plan to check out both the SKS and Saiga up close and personal and make a decision. I'm still debating the "new in the box" aspect of the Saiga vs. the milled receiver and ability to use stripper clips aspects of the SKS. 

No Clue - good questions about the safe. We can keep this thread going if you want, b/c this was the next issue I need to deal with. I'm leaning towards the simple, cheap, lockable cabinets (StackOn is the brand I've seen). My reasoning is as follows - either TSHTF or not. If it has not hit the fan, then my primary concern is kids getting into the guns unattended with a secondary concern of someone breaking in and stealing them. My primary need there is ability to lock up the guns. God forbid, but if my house burns down the cost of my firearms is covered (check with your insurnace to make sure they are). Now, if it has hit the fan, then insurance will likely not do me any good, I'll most likely be home, and the firearms most likely won't be locked up. Either way, I really don't need fire protection. You're right, you can spend a pretty penny on a gun safe. That said, if there is a Fin Feather and Fur close to you they have free delivery within 50 miles and seem to have reasonable prices based on the limited knowledge I have. 

Futher, I don't have that large of a collection and most are what I'd term purely functional firearms. Nothing fancy, expensive, or collectable. If I were a dealer or had a large collection, then I'd probably consider a safe. 

What does everybody else think? Again, thanks for all of the responses.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Ive got kids ages 4, 6 and 7 all three know that the firearms are loaded and not to touch them, safety starts as soon as they can walk, the tools are put up out of reach and when they know that they are not to touch cause they have no reason to then that knowledge is the same as what i and many others grew up with and no one had a gun safe back then except for a few collectors who had something they did not want to lose should a fire consume their house [one family friend lost his wife, had 1.3 million in smoke and fire damage and that was only to his game room, where the majority of his African safari trophies were, his firearms were not touched, though his ivory tusks were not so lucky] his kids grew up with the loaded firearms in his house too.
I realize not everyone has control of their kids, and cannot control other people kids either, and as such that has to be taken into consideration, but being fearful my own children might pick up my firearms right now and have an "accident" is not on top of the list, they leave them alone for a reason, they know the difference between toy and real, they know that their toys are theirs and dads tools are tools not toys and not to be touched unless under preset circumstances such as going shooting with dad or granddad and then they are under strict supervision at all times.

For insurance purposes of liability some folks may need a firearm safe, a trigger lock and so forth so as to be disarmed in an emergency situation [those folks must keep a baseball bat close at hand like in the movies eh?] Or if you have a business that handles other folks tools and need be kept under lock for insurance reasons I could see as needing a safe, but it is kind of easy to put a rifle or shotgun in a corner and still have it handy and out of sight from a common house thief, or a pistol even.... but then again that is why we employ a security dog for keeping "honest" criminals a little more likely to pick on someone else for the time being when we aint at home and did not take long most all our firearms [you only need the when you dont have them, ergo I never leave home without my " Idaho express".

There are roll up doors that lock that install in closets that will deter some thieves, but a lock usually invites all kinds of wonderment as to what might be valuable behind door number one.....

William
Idaho


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

I understand what you're saying Blueduck, and I was raised in a similar way... I also never wore a seatbelt until I was an an adult and it became the law, played outside without adult supervision, carried an 8" knife in my boot, and rode my bike without a helmet... but... the only way I'm going to be able to own firearms and maintain domestic harmony with my wife is to keep them in a locked safe.

A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

NoClue said:


> I understand what you're saying Blueduck, and I was raised in a similar way... I also never wore a seatbelt until I was an an adult and it became the law, played outside without adult supervision, carried an 8" knife in my boot, and rode my bike without a helmet... but... the only way I'm going to be able to own firearms and maintain domestic harmony with my wife is to keep them in a locked safe.
> 
> A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do


I would think that a man like that would start with a new wife lol 
okokokokokok maybe not,

but the wife [insert husband who is afraid of firearms as such do exist] aught to understand the car she/he drives as well as other people is highly more likely to be deadly in the hands of your kids than any firearm left hanging around the house with properly educated kids. I realize common sense is no longer common these days, but locking everything away that is dangerous is not the thing to do, we are born into this world on a destination to die, along the way we learn to live to the fullest and trying to put off the ultimate destiny pre-determined by whatever God one prays to is about as foolish as anything there is. Life is short enough without making it hard to get through with red tape and firearms safes! Just my way of thinkin growing up in a similar manner, including being out chasing the hounds for several days on end without the folks getting all worried something might have happened to us kids..... and yes years later a friends kid fell off a cliff at night and died while bear hunting, but he wasnt all boxed up in the house playing Nintendo(tm) drinking soda and being lazy either.

William
Idaho


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## Texas_Plainsman (Aug 26, 2007)

The Saiga .308 looks mighty sweet. The .308 is a real battle rifle cartridge. I think it can be had for around $420?


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Help your wife over come her fears of firearms. Explain all there is, take her out and teach her to shoot. Heck she might want to get more guns. I agree that you need to be able to have fast access to a weapon, especially in the country. My dad taught me to respect weapons at an early age. While hunting, a tree was shot, the bark removed to expose all the holes made by the shot. And said, think what this would do if you shot someone or someone shot you with this, do you think skin is stronger than wood?
Good luck.


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## NEOhioSmiths (Sep 28, 2007)

Update - went to show over the weekend and picked up an SKS. It was unissued, all cleaned up, and a good deal from a private party. In the 10 minutes it took me to walk back out three people stopped and asked me how much I wanted for it. This gave me a bit more confidence in my purchase!

I looked and looked for a Saiga to take a look at, but only saw two. One was in .308 and the other .223. No 7.62x39 which is the caliber I was looking for.

Thanks for all of the advice!


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Thanks for the opinions, but I'll be buying a safe or a locking cabinet all the same. My wife and I have talked about it and it's a reasonable request on her part. She's not afraid of firearms, but this isn't the 60's or 70's anymore (when we grew up) and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hi Guys,
I sold a 410 saiga I had a week ago interesting weapon but in no way useful for me. Very long relativly light for its size but it would be much more useful. in 7.62 X 39 or 7.62 X 51 also known as 308 win, or even 12 ga. That the magazine was limited to 4 rounds also seemed odd. Fast handleing, I admit but very expensive ammo 3'' magnums only $12- 15 a box of 25. the sniper scope block on the side of the reciver was particularly silly. positives it tears down just like the AK-47's I was trained on in Ranger school a long time ago!
A personal gripe why can't you guys use one or the other designator systems either metric or US it needlessly confuses the new folk, without adding anything when describing cartriges. LOL if you can make me stop and wonder what your talking about after 40 years of being a gun nut!
Dutch


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## SW41Mag (Jan 28, 2007)

I bought a Stack-On lockable cabinet as a gun safe and used it for a few years but after really thinking about it, I decided that the apprx. $1200 I spend on a "real" gun safe would be worth every penny if someone broke into our house. I know that these safes can be cracked by better thieves but I don't have anything that real pro's are going to be coming after so it should do well to keep the local boneheads out. I now use the Stack-On as a locked ammo can for extra safety. Let's face it. If the local teenagers break in they might go after the ammo and it sure ain't getting any cheaper either. As for the kids... well you have to start training them from the time they can walk.

We told them they could look at and touch the guns anytime they want if they ask first. Whenever they asked I would immediately stop what I was doing and show them the guns and let them hold them, etc. It took all the mystery out of the guns. I taught them to shoot when they were a little older and then sent them to hunter safety classes and there was never a problem. I really recommend the safe though for peace of mind and also... get it bigger than you think you will need. You start finding more and more things to put in it as time goes by.


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