# Distemper?



## Shades of Gray (May 1, 2010)

Yesterday, while I was cleaning out the cow barn, the horses wandered up and were just standing around getting in the way of pitchfork fulls of flying manure.
My youngest mare Flossy turning 5 this year, came over to investigate and I noticed that the underside of her jaw was swollen giving her a slightly masculine looking head. I felt under her jaw and there was a hard swelling about the size of my fist. I separated her from the rest of the horses immediately where they can not get close to each other. I was pretty sure this was distemper but when I googled the symptoms she doesn't fit any, other than the swelling. No snotty nose, still breathing good, eats and drinks fine, acting like her normal lively self, but looks like swallowing might be a little painful though. 
Checked her today when I fed and the swelling seems to have burst. There was bloody hair clinging to it, and when i pulled that off, there was the hole, with thick cheezy ooze coming out. I sort of poked around the hole hoping to help it drain but nothing more came out, I'm sure it would have if she would have let me keep messing with it, but she was swinging her head.
I read it can be transferred from a shared drinking trough, so last night I dumped the two troughs, both the cows and the horses and scrubbed and scrubbed and then bleached the hell out of em!
My two other horses have never had distemper and after checking them over carefully have so signs of swelling and none of the symptoms. This is the first time it has shown up on our property. I don't know where she would have gotten it, I took her and my gelding to an indoor arena twice this winter, but there were just a handful of other horses there and none of them were sick.
IF this is Distemper should I take her to the vet tomorrow to have it lanced and drained? How long would it take to heal on it's own? What are the chances of my other horses contracting it since I separated them before it burst? Is our property contaminated now?


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

I have never heard of distemper in horses; the symptoms you describe are of Strangles, which is highly contagious. I would get the vet out to confirm or deny, because you will need to have your farm quaranteened for a period of time and as a courtesy, don't go to farm stores or hay dealers' properties without scrubbing yourself, changing clothes and shoes, etc.

Could be a simple abscess that burst, but I would find out for sure... good luck!


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

wow, here it is! You're right, the proper term IS distemper...but it is know most commonly as Strangles : 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangles


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

If she was in a herd situation in a shared paddock, then yes- it's likely most of your horses have strangles.  

Proper treatment is the same as with any abscess, clean it well and make sure it can drain. 

No antibiotics or meds other than topical, while i've never seen a case of [email protected]@rd strangles, I know it can happen. 

Now the question is where did it come from? Have you brought a new horse home recently? Taken yours anywhere they could have contacted it? Has anyone else brought a horse to your farm lately?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bleach isn't a good disinfectant with strangles, povidone iodine (betadine) is much better. The spores can lay active for over a year so cleaning is very very important.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

There's no need to lance and drain and about the best way to get through it is to leave it alone except to apply warm compresses to the area a few times a day.


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## cindy04 (Jun 27, 2006)

Not sure why, but I have heard some of the good ol' boys here in MO refer to Strangles as Distemper too. First time I heard the reference I was very confused.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Yup, that is strangles, also known as distemper in horses. The majority of horses do not get really sick, just get the abscess.

DO NOT GIVE ANTIBIOTICS. Antibiotics can drive the strangles down into their legs and then you have a bigger problem. Let it run it's course, your horse will be fine. Just watch for trouble breathing. If the abscess is cutting off her windpipe, you'll have to call the vet, but that is very rare.

If your other horses don't have symptoms, they might already be immune. It's one of those things that a horse only gets once.


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## Shades of Gray (May 1, 2010)

I did bring another horse on the the property this winter, an old retired logging horse. Our neighbor only this one old horse and was just going to let him rough it this winter, NO FOOD, NO WATER! I counted and the neighbor was gone and nobody showed up for almost a week(I could tell cause their driveway was snowed in) before I went and rescued him so he could at least get some groceries. Joe has been here since December and just a few days ago the neighbor came and took him back. Next day was when I noticed the lump. Joe never had anything that I could see, but can a horse be a carrier without any symptoms? 
How long do I leave the hot compresses on for?


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## Shades of Gray (May 1, 2010)

I already gave them the water trough back after I had bleached it. Should I dump it out again and use iodine? How much? What strength?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Shades of Gray, if you're using a common trough, nothing is really going to prevent cross contamination and at this stage of the game, there is a good chance that if you have other horses and they haven't had strangles, they're going to get it.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

FYI, though not as common in horses they can carry CL just like goats, sheep, cows, deer and humans, please be careful of the extrude as if it is CL you can catch it, the cheesy puss is how CL got its name.

http://www.ehow.com/about_6401833_caseous-lymphadenitis-horses.html

The test is about $7 you just collect the extrude in a red top tub and send it to Washington state lab, make sure you tell them what it came from and what it may be. I know the link above is not fully correct as they may not present any symptoms other than the abscess, and the jaw is a place where lymph nodes are located so the abscess can be there.

http://uvalde.tamu.edu/staff/rick/Goat Gathering IV/Health/CASEOUS LYMPHADENITIS.pdf


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

WR is correct, the incubation period for strangles is 3-11 days so your other horses have (most likely) been exposed. The other horses may have already had strangles and they won't get it again. Although you should continue to clean the horse that has the abcess feed bin with iodine.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Strangles will go through the whole barn. btdt. I used warm compress on my mare and it opened on its own. I rate that as the grossest thing....ever! That was many years ago. Now I work at a vet clinic and "see it all" and nothing bothers me. BUT, when I think of the strangles episode, I still gag. You will be amazed at the amount of leakage that goes on for days. I have been told that once your horse goes through strangles it's immune system is better at warding off illness.


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## Shades of Gray (May 1, 2010)

This afternoon I took out a bucket of hot soapy/iodine water and a bunch of those disposable blue shop towels. The main swelling and hole had a slight scab over it. I held the compress on till it got cold and then wiped up what I could, got another towel and just continued the whole process till the scab softened and then I peeled it off(gross..gross..gag..gross..:yuck along with alot of loose hair. Then I used a syringe and sucked up a 10% iodine solution with some warm water and squirted it up in the main hole. Most of the solution shot out a smaller hole on the opposite side of the main swelling.
I will see about getting some bedadine tomorrow as I was told this would be better to use. Thanks everyone for all the suggestions!


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

My friend got a horse last summer and after she got it home it developed strangles. She said it was the nastiest thing ever. Her horse got pretty sick from it and they had to have the vet out several times. She was kicking herself that she didn't quarantine him longer.


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## Waiting Falcon (Nov 25, 2010)

Years ago strangles swept our community. No one is sure where it started as all the horses involved were stay at homes. None had been off the place- some for many years. The DVM said it must have spread on the wind. Our mare was so desperately sick that the DVM finally put her on meds to keeping from losing her. It can either be like your mare with no sign of illness or it can cause death in some - as we very nearly lost our mare.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It would be foolish to suggest that strangles is no big deal because there certainly can be complications but statatistically, the odds are pretty great that the horse will recover quite nicely with no complications, much like children with chicken pox.


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Strangles swept through the boarding barn I was at about 17 years ago. Two foals died because their throats swelled to far shut to swallow enough milk...It just dribbled out their noses. One horse developed bastard strangles and had serum oozing out of his legs for weeks and was horribly sick and feverish....he was never the same.

Only my two horses did not succumb- they were both off-track Thoroughbreds and had been exposed previously... It was a horrible, horrible summer at that barn....


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Not sure where on the jaw the abscess is, but it could also have been caused by an infected tooth.


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## Shades of Gray (May 1, 2010)

It is right dead center between her two jaw bones. The swelling is MUCH smaller today! I will go get a picture of it shortly. Should have snapped a pic when I first noticed it, so I could show the comparison. 
BRB


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Welllll, sure sounds like it could be strangles/distemper. Remember, the exudate is highly contagious to other horses. As long as the horse is eating, drinking and breathing well, I wouldn't administer any antibiotics. Also, don't use use anything topical to help close/heal the abscess site. If it closes over outside *before* it is done draining or before the healing has begun internally, it'll just make the dang thing worse.

Hot compresses (as hot as your bare hands can tolerate) and maybe a drawing salve like ichthammol or maybe some epsom salts will help the abscess to stay open and continue to drain. 

Strangles/distemper is a serious condition but, generally, only the quite young, quite old, or otherwise debilitated horse is at any real risk of dying from it.

It still could be a tooth, but it sounds like a classic strangles abscess site.

The bacteria responsible for strangles does persist in the environment, but there is no consensus regarding just how long it sticks around. Licensed vets' estimates vary WILDLY... from "a few days" to "8 weeks". Two things are certain, however: it lasts longer in the environment when it is wet than when it is dry, and lasts longer in warmer climates than in colder ones. 

As such, troughs will support live bacteria longer than, say, a fencepost. If you can, you should consider draining and bleaching your troughs. If you can't... well, maybe consult with a vet about that. Might be something you could put in the water to kill off that bacteria without disrupting the ecosystem of your trough (I'm thinking big windmill tank, etc.).


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

If there were two holes in the swollen area, could it have been a snake bite? Maybe a non-venomous one? I've never dealt with strangles, so not sure if the two hole opening is typical.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Pam, I had the rare pleasure of spending a summer working for a youth camp that simply borrowed a total of 80 horses from as many people as they could find and there was no though given to herd heath so I got a first class education on lice and strangles and they can honestly drain from more than a single location but the sites are usually very close together and I noticed it happened more in the horses that seemed to have more swelling before they started to drain.


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