# Drum Carders and lazy kates



## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Dh is going to make me a drum carder for Christmas. :rock: He is perfectly capable of doing this. In fact, he has jumped into the project with both feet and has been going full-speed on it for days. I haven't seen him this excited in a long time. I know next to nothing about drum carders - except they make the work go a lot faster. I'm a bit nervous. I can't tell him exactly what I want or need so he is free to build what he thinks I need. I would like to avoid the birth of a 40 lb drum carder that also just happens to toast the morning bagels.....

So...what do you consider essential in a drum carder? What would you like to have in one? Do you like 3 drums or 2? Is there any value in having interchangeable drums with different sized carding cloth? I will have finn, corriedale, cotswold and wensleydale fibers - will I need different carding cloths? I have been reading different people's opinions of their drum carders and noticed that many use one carder for blending fibers and another for regular carding Is there some kind of adjustment that can be made so one carder will do both jobs equally well? 

He is also making more bobbins and perhaps a lazy kate if he still has time. Is tensioning a good thing in a lazy kate? or more of a bother to adjust so you can use it? 

wish us luck!


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

I own a Patrick Green "Deb's Deluxe" (I would say I 'have' it, but it's been on loan since June, then back out on loan again).

It has a fine carding cloth and there hasn't been anything I haven't been able to card on it (when I actually _have _it!)

I do like a tensioned kate. I don't like having the yarn on the kate start rolling in the other direction then it brings you up short.

Here is the kate my DH made me 3 years ago:


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

I agree with Cyndi on many points. My drum carder (the one you saw and used) is a Strauch (formerly Fricke). I thought I had the "finest" but I don't but it is pretty find and I also have the brush attachment. There hasn't been a fiber I couldn't card with this and I've been able to blend all types of things. Keep in mind that the people who are doing the art batts to make crazy art yarn with, generally have a carder with coarse teeth (this is what I have seen several times). I think that brush attachment is a necessity too.

I have a lazy kate and don't ever use it. Okay I've used it maybe 3 times in the 15+ years I've been spinning. Mine was not tensioned at the time and it drove me crazy. I later found out it had tensioning capabilities. If your kate isn't tensioned you will have bobbins that fling their contents all over the place as you ply and when you stop. Maybe I'm just an exuberant plyer but I found that not being tensioned caused lots of headaches with tangles and knots.


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## Ana Bluebird (Dec 8, 2002)

Totally agree with both above: Patrick Green and tension that lazy kate. Nice wood working on that lazy kate, BTW.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Thanks ladies. so they use the coarse cloth to blend? I don't see myself putting sparkles in any yarn....but maybe some bamboo or silk. I'm glad that one cloth can do it all!!! Hurray. And if your's works just fine without the finest cloth, Marchie, that's good enough for me. You are the best at knowing what is necessary and what's fluff!

How hard are your drum carders to turn? I have turned two of them now and didn't have any trouble with either. But it seems to be an issue. Does how hard to turn have to do with how heavy you load it? DH's having some trouble finding a handle that's long. Most of the carders I have seen have a handle that you have to hang over the edge of the table to use. DH's not sure it's necessary to have one that long. I think there's a reason they are long. I'm all for statis quo and he's always read to re-invent the box. LOL!!!


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Yes how hard it is to turn does have a lot to do with how much you load/feed into it. You will ruin the teeth on your carding cloth if you force your carder to card too much fiber at one time. Small amounts feed and layered onto the drum until the drum is full. Carding cloth is VERY expensive and I don't want to have to replace mine anytime soon.

My carder is chain driven, I've worked both chain and belt driven. I prefer the chain driven. It's a much smoother experience. When I used the belt driven carder it felt like the belt was slipping at times. You also have the possibility of having to replace the belt. That's my personal opinion.

As for the handle, if you don't have a handle that hangs over the edge then you will have to have a carder that is built up high enough off the surface of the table that you won't have to worry about it. It's about leverage. 

The best carders on the market right now that I know of are the ones made by Pat Green or the ones made by Strauch. I'd look at their designs and go from there. Why reinvent the wheel? I can't imagine how you could make them much better than these. Also I would recommend getting card cloth from Howard Brush http://www.howardbrush.com/card_clothing.html


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Marchwind said:


> Why reinvent the wheel? I can't imagine how you could make them much better than these. Also I would recommend getting card cloth from Howard Brush http://www.howardbrush.com/card_clothing.html


Heheheheheeeee...you're not married to a design engineer, are you? He LIVES to reinvent the wheel. Give him ANYTHING to do, and he has to 'fix' it. And he can do it for about 1/3 the price...

The chain drive - I will have to tell him about that. I forgot that little detail!!!


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Oh I remembered that your DH was an engineer. I think ALL engineers live to reinvent the wheel  I was just saying it for your benefit.

An old bike chair would work well. All the barrings are encased too


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

hehehe..... He can't help himself. It's the challenge.


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

You'll have a blast with it! I just started blending (pictures in another thread soon!)

It's just fun!


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I almost feel guilty- Dh has spent every spare minute he has until the wee hours studying drum carders and looking up parts, etc. He has a milling machine that runs off the computer so the smaller metal parts he will cut with that.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Keep in mind when I say using a drum with coarse teeht for blending I don't mean blending as in angora with wool, or silk with alpaca, that sort of blending I would do on a finer toothed card. I'm talking about blending chunky, colored stuff that looks rough when you are finished.

I can't wait to see what he comes up with.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Me either. He's starting on the bobbins tonight. We decided to not try to match the wood on those. He likes the chain drives -but we will have to see what it adds to the cost. He's also making me soap molds. He's really going to be busy! 

And I won't have any fleeces to try out on the carder - so I'm going to have to buy some. I think I will look for BFL. Maybe make a trip to The Spinning Loft.....


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Callie if you go to the Spinning loft let me know. I'd really like to go with you.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I already planned on that! It won't be this week...maybe the week after Thanksgiving. What day do you have off? I will probably try to schedule it when I am going to the mill to pick up my stuff. So it will depend on when they have that ready. It isn't like he's going to have the drum carder made by next week anyway.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Callieslamb said:


> He's also making me soap molds.


Before he gets too far in the soap mold making process, have him check out this.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

You don't think he should build me an extrusion molder for the soap? That's his train of thought right now. I have made soap 1 time. Count it. 1. I know next to nothing and he keeps asking me questions! LOL!! I'm supposed to make soap tomorrow and see if after 3 hours of curing, it's hard enough, yet soft enough to push it into a shaped mold and then drop out of it.........or maybe 4 or 5 hours............I am not sure a rectangular box is going to work for him.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Extrusion mold?? OH MY!!!

How long are you going to leave it in the mold before you start extruding 3 hours?? Are you doing HP soap? Might work then.

For CP soap, it will be longer than that ... AND it will depend on the oils you are using in the soap batch.

You may want to continue this soap mold convo in the Soapmaking forum.

I'd be happy to test for him ..... (been making soap since 1999) And you're not THAT far away.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Cyndi if you go to Callies let me know and I will be there. That would be fun


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

You ladies are too much fun! If only we could all live closer together!

I don't even know what HP or CP soap is.....and I have no idea how to do anything with it. That's why I suggested to him that he let me get a bit more experienced before we worry about extruding soap into molds - or pressing it or anything else. I batch of soap is about a year's supply around here anyway.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

CP is cold processed, and HP is hot processed. It has to do with how you process the fats and the lye.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Yep...I googled that after Cyndi wrote it.....I'd really rather work on my spinning and knitting right now. I'm not so worried about the shape of a bar of soap right now.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Wow!! What a nice LK. I love it! How is yours tensioned? I used dowels stuck through a plastic storage box but it was too hard to keep them from rolling around too much. I put tape over the ends of the dowels to slow it down- that helped, but not much.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Tie thin yarn or fishing line to a small spring (a spring in a pen works well) & attach it on your box. Tie the line to the other end of the spring & stretch it over the whorls in the bobbins. Tie it off on the other side of your box, leaving enough length to adjust the tension.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

amazing - the thing you think of, I mean.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Okay, I will admit it.

I have never used a tensioned lazy kate.

What are you all talking about with the bobbins rolling around and stuff? 

Both of the kates I have used are basically just a board with some metal rods sticking up out of it.
You slide the bobbins on them, grab the ends of the singles, and away you go plying.

I just apply tension with my hands, where the twist is. 
What the singles are doing over on the bobbins doesn''t make much difference that I can tell.

Am I missing something here?
(that is entirely possible  )


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Well, when I plied - often the bobbins would spin on the dowel faster than I was plying. Probably because I wasn't really steady with the treadle. When they spun faster creating slack, the yarn would twist together BEFORE it got to my hand - so I had to unply to get my fingers out so I could ply. It wasn't a lot of fun. Perhaps if I had dowels as large as the hole in the bobbins it would have helped. Perhaps putting tape on the dowels UNDER the bobbins would have helped. I managed to do quite a bit of plying. But if I can make it easier, without all the stops and starts, that's what I want to do. Dh's already figured out how to tension it - with the same string I use on the wheel for the drive band.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Oh. So your bobbins are lying on their sides?
Maybe that is the difference.
Plus the beginner yarn being overtwisted singles. Maybe, a little? THAT part I do remember!

Tensioned lazy kates seem to be very common and popular.
Maybe if I tried one, I would find it far superior.

Truthfully, I am just now getting a chance to use a wheel with scotch tension on the bobbin.
I keep forgetting I even have that option, because I worked for so long w/o it.

A person gets used to things, not realizing there are easier ways.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Are you saying "old dogs - new tricks?" LOL!!! It isn't complicated to tension a Lazy Kate so we will probably do it. If I don't need it then I won't have to use it. I think having whatever supports the bobbins about the same size in diameter would also help. And treadling very, very smoothly and loading the bobbins very evenly....all things I am far from perfecting.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Callie I have the same problem with the bobbins getting ahead of my plying and I can ply fast. Slowing down or treadling smoothly didn't help. I have the same problem when I wind my bobbins off onto the ball winder if I forget to tension the bobbin on the wheel or use my hands. In the past I have had to throw away a lot of tangles yarn, beyond fixing. It is a sad thing to throw away your hard work.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Marchwind-I'm sorry about that for you- but you made me feel a lot better. Though I do have a lot to improve upon with all of this yarn 'stuff'.


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

I have a 'built-in Kate' on my Ashford Traveller, and don't have a problem with bobbins winding too fast. Not sure why. But I definitely go slow...

Where did the name "Lazy Kate" come from anyway? I did a quick google seach, and didn't come up with anything :shrug:


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> I think its only fair that "Kate" is getting blamed for laziness along with the innocent gals named "Susan". :grin:


No wonder they're so lazy - they both just go round and round, and they're probably so dizzy they can't get anything done! :stars:


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Yea WIHH and me we can't claim to be dizzy blondes but maybe we can be called dizzy ( the little guy who is spinning around is gone). Anyway, I doubt either one of us is truly lazy :umno:


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I am...I only do what I want, when I want. And very little else. My only salvation, is that I want to do a lot of things.


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