# Combo Pet and Guard Dog



## ckrv (Jul 3, 2010)

Can anyone point me to a post, or way to search out how to find a good breed to do multiple duty around the homestead?

Location: Chaffee County, Colorado, in the Rockies at 7,500' elevation - temps to -20 in the winter, and 90 in the summer.

Homestead: 20-acres with creek/cottonwoods and upland pasture

Primary Duty (70%): companion/protector of 9 and 6 year old children as they roam the property, and pinon/juniper forests adjoining. Hope for friendly, attentive, protector that will respond to the kids commands.

Secondary Duty (30%): when not doing primary duties, protects chickens, pigs, future goats, sheep and other critters. Or, at the very least doesn't harass them.

Details: Hope for a friendly, do-it-all dog, that would also protect the "flock". Would be taken camping, rafting, to grandpa's house, would spend most nights at the foot of the beds, but days in the fenced pasture with the animals. Ideally no more than 60 lbs.

Wildlife: black bear, mountain lion, coyote, fox 

Thanks in advance for your advice!

C


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

GPs are "softer" than other LGDs, and work wonderfully for all around farm dogs. They are big enough to look scary, ferocious enough to protect from predators, and just big goofballs. They are pro-people and anti-predator.


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## Lady89 (Feb 22, 2014)

i dont know i think other then one Jack Russel i have never had any dog that was not a mutt


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

You need to choose one or the other or get two dogs. A Lgd is bonded to the stock it cares for and stays with them. A pet is bonded to its humans and wants to stay with them. Sticking a pet dog in with livestock when your not able to watch it isn't likley to work.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Check out English Shepherds. Your description of your desired dog fits the breed precisely.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Oh, wait. "Days in pasture." No. Our dogs have the run of the entire place, day and night, via the dog door. They are extremely aware of what is going on outside, and patrol vigilantly, but they are not stuck in a pasture.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

Except for the fact I never stuck him out in a pasture, I had a boxer mix that met all of the above criteria. I had a dog door so he came and went at will. It took a bit of work to bond him with the poultry (he killed a couple before it sunk in that they were "his"), but otherwise he was an excellent guard dog for all critters living on the place.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

A Dobermann, a Bouvier des Flanders, really for your climate a Bouvier would probably work well. They are from herding stock, have more powerful jaws than any other dog, and are very family oriented. They don&#8217;t roam and are quiet.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

You have larger predators, black bear, mountain lion, coyote, so you probably want to go with a big dog(over 60lbs) or the poor dog could become prey as well. I agree with Jason that you really need two dogs. My daughter has a border collie that is her companion/chore helper and we have a few lgds to protect the sheep. With proper training many breeds of dogs can become good kid companions. Your sheep protector needs to be out at night and not sleeping at the foot of the bed.


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## moonwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

I love my Kuvasz. Second one I've had. Won't need or 
want any other breed. She is trustworthy and lovable ,
Big and imposing to predators , easy care coat almost
self cleaning. I keep birds. They range free, ducks mostly .
She watches over them an at night I leave her out to chase 
off any interested coyotes or fox . 
Just today she helped me find a couple pheasant that escaped 
from pen. The bird she caught and gently kept in her mouth
till I could recapture it successfully. We have wolves, black
Bear. Never had problems. I would be lost on my stead without her .
I don't trust cougars, though . Never seen one here.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

check into a cur I now have the Mt curs but have had and can highly recommend the southern blackmouth cur . I have found these dogs to be very intelligent and faithful all around homestead dogs . check them out they are great family dogs that will bond with your family and varmit proof your homestead


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## Hexe (Mar 8, 2007)

I'll have to go with the black mouth cur as well - you're describing them to a "t".


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## harmon (Jun 15, 2013)

Turkish Boz Shepherd

I have St Croix Sheep and La Mancha Goats. Previously I've had two Komondors. I was raised with German Shepherds. Almost a year ago I met an assistant of NY Mayor Bloombergs with two huge Leonbergers. I told him I had a Komondor and we began talking about dogs. He said the next time he bought a dog it would be a kangal. In researching kangals I learned about Boz Shepherds, and bought one 7 months ago. the biggest difference between Boz and other Guardians is the Boz wil chase down threats and kill them, where most will just protect their herd/flock. If you have more than one adult Boz, within a month you won't hear coyotes at night. They will take turns hunting them until they are extinct. 

Longevity is 10-15 years, which is unusual for such a large dog.

The Boz Shepherd is a very large dog that has retained a level of function that is seen in few breeds. Most Boz can run 28-36 mph for miles, pull 7-10,500 pound tractors, and have speed and endurance commendable for such a large dog. Tom in WA has run his female 53 miles in 4 hours, with her wanting to continue.

Average Height and Weights;

Males; 32-36" 130-190# Average. Individuals of 38"-41" and 256# exist, but are not desired for functionality.

Females; 29-33" 100-160# Average. Females tend to be smaller than the males.


There's a facebook group where you can read about owner experiences. Things like after getting their boz a spiked collar, their kill count didnt go up but the next day they werent torn up as bad and had more energy. http://www.cobankopegi.com/collar.html

They are gentle with children also I attached a picture of my boz taken last month with my 5 year old son and some chickens.

Heres the site for the turkish boz breeders association http://turkishboz.com/
and the importer I bought mine from 
http://naturalbornguardians.com/turkish-boz-shepherd/

and I atached a picture of my dog's maternal grandfather, greatgrandfather, and great great grandfather


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

A 100+ pound dog that has more endurance then a sled dog, fast as a sight hound, can run coyotes till they are extinct, eats wolves for breakfast. Its super dog and I've got a bridge for sale!


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## Distaff (Sep 10, 2014)

Luv the look of the Boz. Maybe the most beautiful dog ever?

Unfortunately, as I understand it, they have some reputation for instability. They are fighting dogs in Turkey. I'm sure it is matter of pedigree, and how they are raised, but I would be reluctant to accept any agression issues in a dog that is that large and powerfull. 

My own research.
YMMV


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

I've studied the Boz Shep. as a future possibility. They do seem to be the do-it-all, loyal guardian but that's only from reading. 

In answer to the op, sounds like a great job for a Catahoula Bulldog - except for being kept inside pasture. And as with all bulldogs you have to be careful of the breeder you choose. The f1 Catahoula Bulldog is a cross between an American Bulldog and a Catahoula Leopard dog. Both those breeds have a lot of variation. The perfect outcome is a child-friendly, bear deterrent that loves the whole family and their guests and will guard their stock with light supervision (not no supervision).


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I wouldn't get only one dog in your situation because, if it did need to confront the larger predator(s), it just might need a helpmate.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I would not recommend a Catahoula, I have one and our experience isn't good so far. She refuses to respond to "leave it", and while she hasn't killed anything on my ranch, she would if my other ranch dog didn't stop her. She mouths my grand daughters and uses teeth to hold their arms, but not enough teeth to leave marks. She chases my horses and donkeys for fun, though she does an admirable job of keeping the "non-stalled" horses out of the barn while she will allow the ones to come in who are supposed to be in. I wouldn't trust her out with a herd of small goats or sheep. 

She would love to kill my cats but won't because I have corrected her hard for grabbing at them, but she puts her mouth on their heads every chance she gets. My mom just moved in with us and has two small cats that the dog would kill if she could catch them. 

She chases cars. She was a rescue I took in when my husband saw her get run over by a truck in front of him. Broke her pelvis and both hips, but we had extensive surgeries done and she is able to run and do everything normally with minimal issues. But I will not ever have another one!!! She has been with us for almost two years and is approximately 3 years old.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

My maremma's watch me and the sheep.

I had a tree trimmer come out, and he was yelling at his worker to do something and Boomer went nuts and tried to jump the fence because he thought he was a threat, I was standing a few feet away. I had to run over to him to calm him down. Boomer went from a loving sheep guardian to a mad wolf beast with one mission....KILL!!
I was impressed with my boy he wanted to protect me too. Lesson dont raise your voice in a threathening manner or my dogs will settle this issue.


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## mrs whodunit (Feb 3, 2012)

We have a small lab that does everything on your list.

Only once in the dogs 13 years have we lost any animals to predators. Lost a number of chickens that night but whatever it was never came back.

Funny thing about our lab is she doesn't look like she is paying attention to whats going on, she hangs out away from the activity most of the time BUT when something isnt right she is right there to protect her girls. Its rather shocking to people when this yellow streak comes running in to protect the kids.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

aoconnor1 said:


> I would not recommend a Catahoula, I have one and our experience isn't good so far. She refuses to respond to "leave it", and while she hasn't killed anything on my ranch, she would if my other ranch dog didn't stop her. She mouths my grand daughters and uses teeth to hold their arms, but not enough teeth to leave marks. She chases my horses and donkeys for fun, though she does an admirable job of keeping the "non-stalled" horses out of the barn while she will allow the ones to come in who are supposed to be in. I wouldn't trust her out with a herd of small goats or sheep.
> 
> She would love to kill my cats but won't because I have corrected her hard for grabbing at them, but she puts her mouth on their heads every chance she gets. My mom just moved in with us and has two small cats that the dog would kill if she could catch them.
> 
> She chases cars. She was a rescue I took in when my husband saw her get run over by a truck in front of him. Broke her pelvis and both hips, but we had extensive surgeries done and she is able to run and do everything normally with minimal issues. But I will not ever have another one!!! She has been with us for almost two years and is approximately 3 years old.


You know, that could easily be a problem with early training (or lack thereof). I have two English Shepherds who are the most excellent farm dogs I could wish for. I bred them three times, and had excellent feedback on the working ability and temperament of every puppy - except one. She was my pick of her litter for working temperament, and I sold her to what was supposed to have been a working situation. When I got her back at five years old, she had many of the same issues as your Catahoula - aggressive to our cats, wouldn't "leave" when told, too free with her teeth regardless of species, etc., etc. 

We've been working with her for several months now, and she has improved significantly, but we still have a few rough spots to smooth out. I can see her potential to be a really great farm dog, with some more work, but it sure would be nice if her first owners had handled her a little better. I got the strong impression they expected her to train herself, and while English Shepherds are pretty intuitive, they do need a bit of guidance from a leader they respect, and earlier is far better than later. All this is to say I wouldn't discount the whole Catahoula breed based on a dog you got as an adult with who knows what kind of early background.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Laura Workman said:


> You know, that could easily be a problem with early training (or lack thereof). I have two English Shepherds who are the most excellent farm dogs I could wish for. I bred them three times, and had excellent feedback on the working ability and temperament of every puppy - except one. She was my pick of her litter for working temperament, and I sold her to what was supposed to have been a working situation. When I got her back at five years old, she had many of the same issues as your Catahoula - aggressive to our cats, wouldn't "leave" when told, too free with her teeth regardless of species, etc., etc.
> 
> We've been working with her for several months now, and she has improved significantly, but we still have a few rough spots to smooth out. I can see her potential to be a really great farm dog, with some more work, but it sure would be nice if her first owners had handled her a little better. I got the strong impression they expected her to train herself, and while English Shepherds are pretty intuitive, they do need a bit of guidance from a leader they respect, and earlier is far better than later. All this is to say I wouldn't discount the whole Catahoula breed based on a dog you got as an adult with who knows what kind of early background.


True, the whole breed may not be so bad. But mine is!!! I am fairly adept at training, but this one is the exception!


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Even well bred Catahoulas are challenging for the first 3 years. It takes a lot of patience , supervision and training to help them through their long childhood and adolescence. They don't do well with corporal punishment but thrive with positive reinforcement BUT it will still take about three years for them to mature and become the best of all farm dogs if the farm has a clear job for them to do.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

I hope you were able to find a good southern blackmouth or Mt cur and your homestead is now on its way to being varmit proof; and your children will have a faithful safe friend that wont eat your chickens ,


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I would not agree that Dobermanns are quiet. They are bred to guard and boy thats what mine does. The slightest disturbance or unknown entity and he barks, sharp, deep and loud. Often times he screams or howls just because he feels like it. One of the most vocal dogs Ive ever owned.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

That is totally the opposite of my Dobermans. I had two of them for many years, they would only growl or bark when there was trouble, perceived or real. Now, they DID bark at leaves blowing by the house, they barked at everyone coming and going, and they barked at my horses. But other than that, they were totally quiet Totally!

Really though, all kidding aside, they are my hands down favorite dog. I loved my absolutely kid safe Dobermands more than any other dogs I have owned, and they were fiercely faithful, but utterly loved pretty much everyone they met. Mostly. 

Quick story about my male Dobe. I had my sister in law, her hubby, and their 17 month old son, come for a long visit for a few months. My big male Doberman loved chewing on huge rawhide bones with knuckles on each end. He was laying in the middle of the floor one day gnawing away on a rawhide (he was such a powerful chewer, he could power through a large rawhide bone like that in less than 30 minutes). Anyway, my 17 month old nephew was toddling through the house, and just as he got about a foot away from my dog, the little boy tripped and landed right on my dogs head, full body landing flat out on my dogs whole head. My dog had never been around small kids, and I literally was too frightened to move for fear of a violent reaction from my dog, and my sister in law was the same. But not to fear, Dodger the 115 lb Doberman (he was a truly huge Dobe) carefully opened his mouth, let the bone roll out of it, then he began to slowly lift his head, which slowly helped my nephew get back onto his feet to toddle away. I was absolutely the most proud momma ever He won not only my heart that day, but my sis in law as well


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## terradura (Mar 19, 2012)

ckrv said:


> Can anyone point me to a post, or way to search out how to find a good breed to do multiple duty around the homestead?
> 
> Location: Chaffee County, Colorado, in the Rockies at 7,500' elevation - temps to -20 in the winter, and 90 in the summer.
> 
> ...


We have a very similar situation in terms of land, climate, kids, wildlife, and duties for the dog. After lots of research we narrowed the choices to Boz Shepherd and English Shepherd. We went with the English Shepherd and got a male and a female. The advantages of the ES are that they are very biddable (our female is eager to please, but our male is desperate to please), they stay within a few yards of their people on hikes into the mountains, and they are very alert. Ours are initially reserved with strangers but quickly warm up to those we welcome. They average about 55 -60 lbs, so they are easy to pick up if needed. They are very protective of their people and property in terms of alerting and getting in front of perceived intruders, but I haven't seen if ours would physically attack a real threat. A single ES could drive off a fox or a coyote (& hawks, and eagles -- they watch the sky, too), but I don't know about a bear or lion. Two ES together probably could team up to worry one of these larger predators and make it reconsider its plans. Our two ES follow our kids everywhere and they do obey them. I feel comfortable that they would alert at the sign of any danger from predators or rattlesnakes. Still I want to be within ear shot to back them up if the danger was a lion.

The Boz is another level of dog all together. They are huge and powerful. They are very protective, but have low prey drive, which is good because they aren't distracted by deer or rabbits running by (Our ES have low to moderate prey drive, but because they are so biddable they don't chase when we tell them not to). I visited Natural Born Guardians and saw probably 15 Boz. When I arrived a large male sounded the alarm and moved toward the fence (which I was on the other side of fortunately) but as soon as Brian greeted and introduced me, the dog was as friendly as any dog I've ever met. All the dogs in the field were friendly, though I was assured it would have been a very different case if I was not with the owner, and I believe it. The dogs got along well with each other, including the males even though there was a female in heat on the other side of a fence from them. They do not seem to have a sharp temperament, though I'm sure there is variation in the breed. These dogs are bigger than most mountain lions and very athletic. I'm not going to say one could kill a large lion, but it could certainly give it a damaging battle. I expect that a lion would spare itself the fight. It is my understanding that the Boz, like most LGDs, are independent thinkers and not highly biddable. They are also very rare. There are only a handful of breeders in the US.

The other dog that we considered is the blackmouth cur, but they are not common in the West. Since they are used on rough stock and for hunting, they have a high prey drive. On the other hand, people on this forum have indicated that that can be over ridden by their high desire to please.

The ES are great dogs for what you want a dog for (as always, check the parents' characteristics -- as with any breed the temperaments can vary). Eventually, I want to add the back up of a Boz. With the ES and the Boz I would have no worries about our kids when they are off exploring.


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## GoatGirl123 (Jan 23, 2014)

We have a great Pyrenees that scares away predators with her mean sounding bark but really she's a big softie. I have no doubt she would fight a predator though . . .


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