# .454 Lever?



## JRHill02 (Jun 20, 2020)

I have a particular love for .45's. .45LC, 45-70, ACP, etc. Recently I broke out my Blackhawk in .454 cause we have a curious bear. I kind of like it and don't want to hurt it and the .454 makes a lot of noise in a small package which is just perfect for a deterrent. But it really hurts my wrist.

Just today I saw that Rossi has a model R92 lever gun in .454. Whoa. My favorite brush rifle is the 45-70 Marlin. The article said the Rossi had better ballistics than the 45-70 at 50 yds. I had to ponder that as fluff. But maybe not? If I scared up a Rossi in this cal I already have dies and everything needed so no new ammo.

Anyone have experience with the Rossi .454 lever? Oh, an of course it also shoots LC.


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## JRHill02 (Jun 20, 2020)

BTW, I like the lever 45 ammo from Hornaday because it has the cushion point for tube feeds. I've looked but don't see an equivalent for .454 bullets....


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

JRHill02 said:


> … The article said the Rossi had better ballistics than the 45-70 at 50 yds. I had to ponder that as fluff. …


If the quote was in the context of “ballistics” at a single range, the author was surely talking terminal ballistics, and, if he was saying the .454 was “better” than the .45-70 in that regard, he was probably comparing two specific loads and pointing out that the .454 load had more energy at that range.

Without cherry-picking loads to benefit the .454, I’d be willing to bet that a .45-70 can be made to outperform a .454 at any range, with any bullet weight. What the .454 WILL do is give you more rounds in the tube, and that’s not worth nothing.

.454 would be formidable in a lever gun, especially when loaded for a rifle. The only place it’s going to outperform a .45-70 is in magazine capacity, but magazine capacity is not a minor variable.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

manufacturers love to cherry pick data to make claims like that 

it could certainly be a solid tool 

if you think about it 454 casull is a bit like 308win 

think M2 ball 30-06 ammo , 308 win does the same velocity with the same bullet as M2 ball did or with in a few % of it 
of course M2 Ball wasn't pushing the ballistic limits of 30-06 but was the down loaded for the M1 Garand load.

still when 2750fps proved sufficient in a M1 rifle the same bullet from a M14 rifle at the same speed but with less weight in the case metal and less powder it was a modernized for new materials and powders 1950 update to the 1906 cartridge 

454 Casull lets you push pressure higher in the shorter case because the case and gun were made for it 

45-70 is a 19th century black powder loads and guns never intended for modern pressures 

there are guns chambered in 45-70 that can take some very stout loads like Ruger #1 rifles when you custom load for 45-70 in a #1 you can chase on the heals of 458 win mag at about 90%-92% of Win mag performance with the same bullet depending on the load and bullet. comparing the same 250gr bullet for this in modern 45-70 rifle loads that would only be safe to fire in guns like a Ruger #1 , bolt action or other strong modern action , not most lever guns.


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

I have a .444 lever action Marlin. About like shooting a mortar.


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## JRHill02 (Jun 20, 2020)

I've had the Marlin 1895 45-70 for many years and its had a _bunch_ of rounds through it. The action is as tight as can be after all this time and its my go-to rifle. Its stock has minor dings and some of the bluing is rubbed off at high points but to me it just adds to character. I don't fix that stuff. Don't need a scope as everything is going to be <100yds for where we hunt. Its not that bad to carry and since there's no scope, easier yet. As for hand loading, I enjoy the heck out of it. But when it comes to .45s I am anally careful as the Casull and LC are .452" and the 45-70 is .458". That would be a bad oops. But I'm sure the press would let me know if I ever tried to seat and crimp a .458 into a .452 case. I also really appreciate the built in 'comp' on the Marlin.

But I am completely intrigued with the 454 lever. And GunM hit it on the head - maybe twice the rounds in the tube. If anyone ever splurges for the iron I'd love to know about their experience. I appreciate the Ruger Super handgun in 454 and its not bad if shot once or twice in a blue moon. But its not a plinking toy and it can get expensive. But dang that thing is a hog leg to carry....


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## JRHill02 (Jun 20, 2020)

oldasrocks said:


> I have a .444 lever action Marlin. About like shooting a mortar.


There is logic to this as the target may fall into the hole created by the miss and then you run up and club it with the stock. Notches on one side for hits and clubbing notches on the other. Now that's a gun with personality.

I have to ask: do you use t or is it a novelty?


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## JRHill02 (Jun 20, 2020)

BTW, the DW is exclusively 30-06. I'm the guy with the club. While she is trying to sight it I could get two or three off. If I actually did that we would walk home separately and I'd have to make my own supper and work it up by myself. So I am a compliant husband in some respects.

There must be an article: Why don't you hit it with a scope?


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

JRHill02 said:


> There is logic to this as the target may fall into the hole created by the miss and then you run up and club it with the stock. Notches on one side for hits and clubbing notches on the other. Now that's a gun with personality.
> 
> I have to ask: do you use t or is it a novelty?


Too funny! I'm sure the concussion would do some damage too.
Never hunted with it. Nothing big enough around here. So guess it is a Novelty. We do have a few bears in Missouri so if one attacks us I could knock him down.
Had a 50A&E too. But it hurt your teeth when you fired it so sold it. At my age and health I have gone the other way with 17 mag. With a Thermal scope it would be my go to gun in the middle of the night.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

JRHill02 said:


> Why don't you hit it with a scope?


A scope won't make you a better shot, they allow you to see better. The shooting is still up to you.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

oldasrocks said:


> I have a .444 lever action Marlin. About like shooting a mortar.


I had a .444 Marlin years ago. Had the barrel shortened to 16 inches, and put receiver sights on it. Then the next year Marlin did the same thing with their 45-70 Guide Gun. The .444 makes for a good brush gun for deer, but it isn't a pinch on the 45-70 Marlin.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

JRHill02 said:


> I have a particular love for .45's. .45LC, 45-70, ACP, etc. Recently I broke out my Blackhawk in .454 cause we have a curious bear. I kind of like it and don't want to hurt it and the .454 makes a lot of noise in a small package which is just perfect for a deterrent. But it really hurts my wrist.
> 
> Just today I saw that Rossi has a model R92 lever gun in .454. Whoa. My favorite brush rifle is the 45-70 Marlin. The article said the Rossi had better ballistics than the 45-70 at 50 yds. I had to ponder that as fluff. But maybe not? If I scared up a Rossi in this cal I already have dies and everything needed so no new ammo.
> 
> Anyone have experience with the Rossi .454 lever? Oh, an of course it also shoots LC.


I have a Rossi in .45 Colt with a 16 in barrel. I recently put Skinner Peep sights on it. The only difference between the Rossi in .45 Colt and the .454 is the length of the chamber. I have started using .454 brass when I hand load for .45 Colt. I shorten it with a case trimmer, and load it with **.5 gr of Unique. It's a little brisk in a Ruger Vaquaro. I don't like the regular .45 Colt brass. It splits down the side, and is hard to extract from the cylinder.


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## HomeCreek (Dec 30, 2021)

Ive had both 454 and 45-70 for a very long time. I had a Ruger 454 and although I had hunted with really hot 44 for years the 454 was uncomfortable to shoot. So I sold it and stuck with hot 44. Then I had a man approach me to work out a trade of several guns for an old ford truck I had sitting around. In the group of firearms was a Taurus Raging Bull with 8.5 ported barrel. Not being much of a Taurus fan at the time I just figured I took the good with the bad. I finally got around to shooting it one day and I have been using it exclusively for my 454 deer and hog pistol ever since. I had a overnight sales route and even wore it in an under the arm holster under a coat as a carry weapon for a while. That Bull was an older model when I came across it. No idea how many rounds put through it but I assume a decent amount. I have probably put 4k rounds through it over the years. I swapped the front post with a fiber that fits a Model 629. And with irons Ive take many deer out to 70 80 yards. With a scope on it I killed my longes at 127 steps. Or about 110 yards. I have probably put half the rounds through it with 45 colt. Loaded hot theyre as good as 44. I bought one of the Rossi 454 levers when it first came out. I had a lot of issues with mine. I was having issues with the lever hanging up on it. Each time I had to take it apart to get it working again and Rossi was not interested in dealing with me. They did stop production for a good while. So maybe they got that kink worked out of them. If so Id like to try another. I just really like the idea of both being pistol and rifle being the same round. A 45-70 with loads made for a modern firearm is more powerful all the way around. The ones you find at Walmart etc are loaded to not blow up some of the old 100yr old rifles laying around. If you handload you can make a 45-70 more than you want to fire often.

My newest love affair(for about a decade) is with the 450 Bushmaster cartridge. It can be found in all manner of firearms. I build custom AR style rifles on occasion for myself sons and a 3 or 4 others a year. I built a 18 inch barrel side charging flat top and if you eliminate all my old firearms Ive collected it is hands down my favorite rifle I own. Over the several custom hunting rifles I own and ARs in 243 308 6.5 Grendel 300 Blackout 458 SOCOM 500 AutoMax etc. For my part of the country its perfect. In the hills and hollers and thickness of the lower Appalachians it is short lightweight and will take anything I come across out to 250. Deer coyote black bear angry mother in laws etc


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## JRHill02 (Jun 20, 2020)

HomeCreek said:


> I bought one of the Rossi 454 levers when it first came out. I had a lot of issues with mine. I was having issues with the lever hanging up on it. Each time I had to take it apart to get it working again and Rossi was not interested in dealing with me. They did stop production for a good while. So maybe they got that kink worked out of them. If so Id like to try another. I just really like the idea of both being pistol and rifle being the same round.


TY. This is what I was interested to hear. Hmm, I wonder if they got that worked out. If 1 out of 100 had the problem I would be the one to get the 1.

I agree with you on hotter 45-70 rounds. I've definitely had a few days of soreness and even bruises at the shoulder from just standard loads let alone hotter ones. But for hunting in the woods and brush I determined hotter loads just weren't needed for my purposes For my hand loads with IMR4198 I take 1 step down from the max with a 300gr bullet. Works for me.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

hoping to see Ruger producing 1894 carbines soon
they started with the 1895 45-70 and have those out now , they are releasing the 336 next and then have plans for the 1894 center fire 44mag it looks like next.

will be great to see those make the market again

If I wanted to by a pistol caliber lever gun today it would be a Henry probably their all weather or X model in 44mag

they don't make a 454 casull

they do make a 45lc

could go Marlin or Henry in a 45-70


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

HomeCreek said:


> Ive had both 454 and 45-70 for a very long time. I had a Ruger 454 and although I had hunted with really hot 44 for years the 454 was uncomfortable to shoot. So I sold it and stuck with hot 44. Then I had a man approach me to work out a trade of several guns for an old ford truck I had sitting around. In the group of firearms was a Taurus Raging Bull with 8.5 ported barrel. Not being much of a Taurus fan at the time I just figured I took the good with the bad. I finally got around to shooting it one day and I have been using it exclusively for my 454 deer and hog pistol ever since. I had a overnight sales route and even wore it in an under the arm holster under a coat as a carry weapon for a while. That Bull was an older model when I came across it. No idea how many rounds put through it but I assume a decent amount. I have probably put 4k rounds through it over the years. I swapped the front post with a fiber that fits a Model 629. And with irons Ive take many deer out to 70 80 yards. With a scope on it I killed my longes at 127 steps. Or about 110 yards. I have probably put half the rounds through it with 45 colt. Loaded hot theyre as good as 44. I bought one of the Rossi 454 levers when it first came out. I had a lot of issues with mine. I was having issues with the lever hanging up on it. Each time I had to take it apart to get it working again and Rossi was not interested in dealing with me. They did stop production for a good while. So maybe they got that kink worked out of them. If so Id like to try another. I just really like the idea of both being pistol and rifle being the same round. A 45-70 with loads made for a modern firearm is more powerful all the way around. The ones you find at Walmart etc are loaded to not blow up some of the old 100yr old rifles laying around. If you handload you can make a 45-70 more than you want to fire often.
> 
> My newest love affair(for about a decade) is with the 450 Bushmaster cartridge. It can be found in all manner of firearms. I build custom AR style rifles on occasion for myself sons and a 3 or 4 others a year. I built a 18 inch barrel side charging flat top and if you eliminate all my old firearms Ive collected it is hands down my favorite rifle I own. Over the several custom hunting rifles I own and ARs in 243 308 6.5 Grendel 300 Blackout 458 SOCOM 500 AutoMax etc. For my part of the country its perfect. In the hills and hollers and thickness of the lower Appalachians it is short lightweight and will take anything I come across out to 250. Deer coyote black bear angry mother in laws etc


When I first got my Rossi, it wouldn't cycle rounds into the chamber. I sent it back and they fixed it. Then I watched a video on youtube on how to smooth up the action. After stoning everything it works just fine. Rossi and Taurus are made in Brazil. They make them and export them, but it is difficult to own a gun in Brazil so they are not a shooting culture. After smoothing up the action, and installing the Skinner sights I like my Rossi a lot.


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