# Yearling Heifer down!!



## cjb (May 2, 2006)

We separated our yearling heifer from the herd of goats she's been hanging with because she just seemed thin. She looked like she was gaining weight and was fine until this morning.

As of this morning's feeding, she will not and appears not to be able to stand up. I have rocked her back and forth etc and she just can't stand up. She is laying "up" on her haunches and eating but won't drink water or stand.

I have a 911 call into the Vet but have not yet been able to get a hold of him.

Any ideas would be appreciated!!

Cliff


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

TT: vet and he suspects either cocci (unlikely as its cold and she doesn't have diarrhea) or, more likely, magnesium deficiency.

I just drenched with 20oz water and a cup of epsom salts and am going to get magnesium/calcium paste to give her twice per day. We are also shifting her weight every few hours to be sure her nerves aren't damaged.

She's kinda laying upright (like a lion) and is eating and drinking fine. No respitory symptoms at all.

Let me know what you think.


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## matt_man (Feb 11, 2006)

This is copied from Keeping a Family Cow:

3 C unsulphured molasses- Liquid is all I use (A *complete* source for minerals and sugar)
1 C apple cider vinegar (must be REAL, with the mother)
1/2 C plain yogurt (This provides Calcium~to 'balance' the magnesium as well as phosphorus that is also needed. The powder culture is more for the probiotic aspect alone and will not offer the calcium or phos.)
2 - 8 TBSP epsom salts (source of magnesium)

Dissolve epsom salts in ACV first, if desired. Mix all together well.

This makes 4 cups of solution, give a minimum of 1 cup of the solution at least twice a day, as a drench or top dress on grain if the cow is eating.

Adjust the amount of epsom salts based on the amount of the drench you will be giving - you want the cow to have about 4 TBSP per day.

A note about the epsom salts - epsom salts are an inexpensive source of magnesium, and the amount your cow needs will be individual. Watch the consistency of her manure - if it is still dryish (biscuit dough consistency) add more. If she's getting too loose, reduce the amount of epsom salts.

'Dosing':

Down cow (off food/water): Drench hourly/every two hours (in the day and as often at night as possible). Depends on how much you are able to administer (due to the demands of life). Consider this to be a source of nutrition while the animal is unable to get nourishment on their own means. Continue the B inj for a minimum of 5 days. Decrease amount given as improvement is seen.

Struggling cow (not completely down/but has hard time rising, drinking only, not eating): Same as for a downer.

Up, but not really eating, drinking much: Same as above, until appetite increases. Then decrease to adding it on the feed, esp at milking time. Continue the B inj for a minimum of 5 days beyond solid improvement.

Up, eating grain/drinking but not really interested in hay or grazing: Add to grain TAD until better. If after the first day no real change is seen, increase until it does, then maintain until you are sure they are established again. Continue the B inj for a minimum of 5 days. Decrease amount given and improvement is seen.

When used as a 'Top Dressing' for daily grain, we are only feeding rolled Barley. (I do not know how corn would affect the over all drench health aspect as corn is known to cause acidosis.)


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Hardware disease is a common term for bovine traumatic reticulopericarditis. It is usually caused by ingestion of tramp iron in fodder or silage. Sharp metallic objects are ingested and settle in the reticulum, and can irritate or even perforate its lining. The object perforates the reticulum and reaches the pericardium where it causes a severe inflammation.
Cows with hardware disease exhibit lethargy, have poor appetite, and have reduced milk production and weight gain also may have a fever, excessive grinding of the teeth or moaning in severe cases. In rare cases, an object may pass through the reticular lining and pierce the heart sac.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/21706.htm


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

Thank you guys! You're awesome.

She doesn't quite fit any of the "dosing" descriptions. She is down, laying kinda upright like an alert dog/lion, but she is eating AND drinking.

I am dosing w sulmet for possible cocci and giving the epsom salts and magnesium, although the above recipe sounds great. I have everything but the molasses so will have to get that.

She nearly got up last time I was up there and is already acting stronger so am hoping it is the magnesium issue.

Please keep the info coming!


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

you did not say if you have ice or snow on ground


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## MARYDVM (Jun 7, 2004)

It wouldn't hurt to give a Vitamin E/Selenium injection in case of white muscle disease.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I dont have any advice, but I do want to say that I really am rooting for your heifer over here.

Downer cows are no fun at all. Best wishes for you to get her up soon.


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

Sounds like you're on the right track. I assume the vet considered any kind of injury say from slipping, which is what Myersfarm was asking about.

Personally, I'd forget the sulmet. First, without diarrhea I think coccidiosis is unlikely. Second, even if she had it, treatment accomplishes nothing in the later stages. They get better on their own (self-limiting) and become immune. Thirdly, antibiotics can mess up the digestive tract normal bacterial flora, making them more susceptible to worse bugs like Salmonella.

What is her diet? What has your weather been? Low magnesium is grass tetany, which you might google. Associated with certain hay or lush grass or certain wet weather.

Along with moving her around to prevent muscle or nerve damage, I assume you have alot of deep soft bedding.


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

DJ, I think you're right about Sulmet. I dosed once but will stop. She isn't in real deep bedding, just a few inches of shavings. I can pick up a straw bale tomorrow (don't have any).

She is on Eastern Oregon alfalfa and a little sweet feed for taming. She is not on pasture right now. Would that preclude it being magnesium deficiency if she is not on pasture? I hope we're on the right track.

She has been trying to get up a bit more but isn't quite strong enough. I am rolling her around and checking her legs for sensation. She reacts when they are poked.

To answer a questions above - no snow on the ground and she is actually in a stall in the barn and has been for a few months.


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## TamBerk (Aug 17, 2010)

Does the heifer look gaunt? If she does and is not getting up, it could be hardware. In that case, you could try putting a magnet in her. The magnet is the shape of a large pill. Your vet should have one and can probably inject in for you. It's put in orally. Hardware is a tough one to resolve. Good luck.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I'd say Selenium def. also. We've had the problem here in older calves, not just newborns.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Just wanted to mention for everyones sake. Baled hay can contain all kinds of trash. If your buying hay from a farmer don't buy the rolls or squares that are laying next to the roadway. Years ago I bought a 5 X 6 that contained more trash than the county dump, shoes, glass, beer cans, everything but money...FYI


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

topside also first bales along a river that overflows.....same thing I found...more bear bottles and cans then I have ever seen in one bale off hay
glass bottles with lids on them


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

She has been in a stall for awhile so hardware would have had to come from the bales of alfalfa. We separate flakes and feed so I would think that we'd notice stuff but maybe not...

Heifer is definitely stronger today. I could barely roll her on her side and she gets herself back up (to alert laying position) very quickly right after. I feel like she would stand if I could just get herr up.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

cjb all it takes is a nail or staple


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

CJB I believe she's laying that way because her gut hurts and that is the most comfortable position. That's why I mentioned hardware yesterday. Last year someone on this forum mentioned that if a bovine does not get up in a certain amount of time it never will, not trying to doom your heifer just mentioning it. I'd jump on her back and attempt to startle her into getting up...Right now...But that's me. Some cattleman have hoists/slings to lift a cow into a standing postion....Keep in touch...Topside


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

topside1 said:


> CJB I believe she's laying that way because her gut hurts and that is the most comfortable position. That's why I mentioned hardware yesterday. Last year someone on this forum mentioned that if a bovine does not get up in a certain amount of time it never will, not trying to doom your heifer just mentioning it. I'd jump on her back and attempt to startle her into getting up...Right now...But that's me. Some cattleman have hoists/slings to lift a cow into a standing postion....Keep in touch...Topside


I would do like what I do to a horse when I am panicking about colic. Just start booting the animal as hard as you can and MAKE her get up..well obviously not hard enough to do damage, but enough to scare her. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I would be really worried that she is never going to get up too.


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## MARYDVM (Jun 7, 2004)

Hardware disease is unlikely if she is eating well. A nail through the wall of the stomach tends to shut down the rumen contractions pretty quickly. 

A heifer can be down (on good bedding) for much longer than a heavier cow before suffering muscle damage. 

If you start kicking a heifer that is down with white muscle disease, she won't get up, but her muscle damage will get much worse.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

What do her eyelids look like? Selenium wont hurt if the injectable isnt available then in GOATs we have found that red cell can be an emergency alternative. BOSE can be bought through Jeffers pet or Vally vet.

Good luck!

FYI, get a fecal done just to be sure


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

She's still not up and vet is coming in the morning.

Her sire is an inch over a mini and she is quite small and not heavy. I rolled her on her side to take pressure off her front legs for awhile and she acted like they were very stiff. However, she can get herself right back up to the upright laying position.

She is laying there happy as can be, doesn't act like her tummy is hurting at all. I used a sharp wire brush to give pain stimulus in the back legs and she nearly got up. I think my wife and older boys and I are going to go up and just lift her up onto her legs in a bit. We'll see. I have far less hope now that she's been down for 36 hours.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Don`t give up on her, I had a cow down for 48 hour a couple years ago. I talked to my mom the next morning, and told her I would possibly have a died cow to pull out of the shed this morning. Much to my surprize when I went out to milk that morning, she walked in the barn to be milk. I could not believe my eyes, I sold here later that year as a nurse cow and she had a fantasic little heifer for that guy the next spring. So don`t give up just yet, won`t hurt to say a prayer for her in your famliy prayers tonight. > Thanks Marc


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

had a cow down for 2 weeks in summer time lived another 5 years on farm till I sold her calf every year


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

The vet said to keep up treatment and that he would come out this afternoon if I wanted him to. He said that same - that many cows are down for days and, as long as they're eating well, drinking, seem comfortable and are being rotated so not crushing their legs.... 

I'm fairly new to cows so I did not know this. Still wish she would get up, though.

Definitely praying for her !


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

did vet give her a banamine shot


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

No but I have banamine. I am going to try that.


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

What would dose be for banamine? She is a very small heifer, nearly a mini. Guessing 600lbs?


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

would start with 3 cc per 100 once a day in the muscle


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

cjb 

Has this animal been on a good mineral vitamin supplement?
What would you consider her body condition score?

If the answer to the first question is yes and the answer to the second is 5 or better I would think she has a pinched nerve.

Have you tried to see if she has any feeling sensation in her legs?

If she does not improve and you decide to process her for meat watch what you inject her with as the withdrawal period could be lengthy. Good luck.


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## bigbluegrass (Jan 11, 2011)

Don't give up on her yet. Cows are great healers. They can be down for a long time and still come back and live for years. if she is still eating that is a very good sign. Once they stop eating and drinking, you don't have long.

Did you take her temperature? Does she have a fever? Dry nose? Any breathing problems? Cough? Runny nose? 

I feel bad for you. Sometimes you can't do a whole lot, but I would keep on trying. Get some sweet feed if you don't have any. It is much easier to get cows to take oral meds if you have some sweet feed to mix it in. I have been known to grind a whole garlic bulb or two and put it in sweet feed for my cows when they look sick. It can't hurt. It smells nasty, but has some powerful antibiotics in it. Good luck.


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

The heifer died last night.

I had the vet out, he said that she really didn't look bad - not dehydrated, feces look normal, not uncomfortable. He decided to IV her with calcium and other vitamins. She had a heart attack during the second bottle of calcium. He said that it just didn't make any sense to him at all. I should get a call today with the results of blood and fecal tests. I would like to know what was wrong.

I am a ridiculous amount of upset over this. I loved this calf and she is exactly what I wanted. She was ready to be bred and I looked forward to milking her. Plus, she was super tame and sweet. Just sucks.

I will have huge vet bills AND had to pay $200 to a renderer to take her away. Our barn is at the top of a hill so my son and I had to drag her about 100 feet down the hill so the truck could pull right up to her.

This has not been a good day. 
I have horrendous luck with dairy cows, it seems.


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## matt_man (Feb 11, 2006)

So sorry  I hope you get some answers as to why. Did the vet look for evidence of hardware?


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## stormywood (Jul 10, 2009)

Oh, I am so sorry. Please let us know the test results. ~hugs~


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

She had a heart attack during the second bottle of calcium. He said that it just didn't make any sense to him at all. 


I do not want to get you up set 

I do know who your vet is BUT YOU NEVER GIVE 2 BOTTLES .....it will always cause a heart attack as far as I know ONE IS IT ...also ONE GIVEN TO FAST will also cause a heart attack


ask dousthouhavemilk


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

Oh man, I was watching to hear about her getting up. I'm so sorry to hear she passed. Im so sorry for you and your family!


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

http://www.hyattsvilleah.com/encycEntry.cfm?ENTRY=94&COLLECTION=EncycIllness&MODE=full


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## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

Sorry, but your vet as good as killed her.
Even for full sized Jersey cows (and ours are big for standards) we never give more than one bottle of calcium at a time. For that matter, we ourselves don't do IV. They get one bottle sub-Q.
We had a young vet try to put two bottles of calcium IV in a standing Jersey cow. Dad refused to let him. He put the second sub-Q. She had to be retreated the next day when she crashed from too much calcium.
I'm sorry you lost her. I really figured you would get her up and she would get going again.
We had a cow down for 2 weeks due to calving paralysis. She has since calved with her second calf and is rebred with her third.
Hopefully the blood tests will show why she went down in the first place. Did the vet give a reason for giving a maiden heifer two bottles of calcium?


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## bigbluegrass (Jan 11, 2011)

That is terrible news. Sorry to hear that.


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## scholtefamily (Feb 25, 2010)

So sorry to hear this news.


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## MARYDVM (Jun 7, 2004)

Every cow vet inadvertently kills at least one milk fever cow during their career with IV calcium. But this heifer did not have milk fever, and 2 bottles IV is a clear overdose for a yearling.


Don't know if this is a young vet, or just one inexperienced with dairy cattle. You might want to speak to the owner of the practice.


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

I am so sorry!


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Oh cjb, my deepest condolences to you and your family on this rough day. 
Go and have a drink my friend. Dairying is a tough piece of work. 
So sorry for your loss.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

MARYDVM said:


> Every cow vet inadvertently kills at least one milk fever cow during their career with IV calcium. But this heifer did not have milk fever, and 2 bottles IV is a clear overdose for a yearling.
> 
> 
> Don't know if this is a young vet, or just one inexperienced with dairy cattle. You might want to speak to the owner of the practice.


Several on here have hit the nail on the head, not all vets can cure animals. I am so sorry for your loss, I have been there, done that, it hurts. That is one heck of a dead animal pickup fee also. I quit calling them when it hit 50 bucks, I bury mine now. Good luck and don`t give up. > Marc


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Sorry it happened. It must feel twice as bad after trying so hard to save her and thinking she was getting better. I hope the cause of her problems can be determined so you can take preventative measures.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Just wanted to say I'm sorry you lost her. That stinks!


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

so sorry cjb. That just stinks!


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## prairie (Jul 27, 2002)

cjb, I'm sorry to hear that.  I'm in the same boat today with a heifer down. This thread has been helpful for me.


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

Wow, that really stinks. I do hope you can find out why she went down in the first place.


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

The vet said the fecal came back showing a parasite that he has never seen before - Nemotodirus? or something like that. He said it was listed as fatal. I am treating everyone.

I may ask him how much calcium he gave her. I'm pretty sure that it was more than one bottle. Maybe it was one bottle of calcium and multiple bottles of sugar water?

I would like to know if it was wrong as I paid $200 to have her removed and am expecting a huge bill from him for afterhours etc.

IN addition to this, my favorite, old awesome amazing horse, Brando died this morning. THis week has sucked.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

I'm so sorry for the loss of both the heifer and the horse. When it rains it pours.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

nematodirus is fatal? Time for a new vet, it can be treated with panacur:

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/22406.htm


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## Karen in Alabam (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry for your loss


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

just ask for a detailed bill I am sure he will charge you for 2 bottles if he used it......


why did he give sugar water never heard of giving that IV


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

What needs to be understood is that some members on this forum are actually more knowledgeable than Veterinarians. These hardworking, hands-on folks are not licensed, paid or have degrees. At the same time they have powerful, valuable experience that needs to be listened to. Believe me I'm not one of them. My large animal Vet explained to me clearly that most Vets concentrate on Poodle money and not cattle money. She also expressed that I should become as knowledgeable as possible in first aid and treatment of the type animals that I own. She is a large animal Vet that spends 99% of her day worming poodles & cats. I guess what I'm trying to say is that as owner/operators we need to educate yourselves and be ready to tackle any situation involving our livestock. Right or wrong, give it your best shot. Just speaking in general...Sorry for your loss CJB....Topside


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

topside1 said:


> What needs to be understood is that some members on this forum are actually more knowledgeable than Veterinarians. These hardworking, hands-on folks are not licensed, paid or have degrees. At the same time they have powerful, valuable experience that needs to be listened to. Believe me I'm not one of them. My large animal Vet explained to me clearly that most Vets concentrate on Poodle money and not cattle money. She also expressed that I should become as knowledgeable as possible in first aid and treatment of the type animals that I own. She is a large animal Vet that spends 99% of her day worming poodles & cats. I guess what I'm trying to say is that as owner/operators we need to educate yourselves and be ready to tackle any situation involving our livestock. Right or wrong, give it your best shot. Just speaking in general...Sorry for your loss CJB....Topside


Amen brother topside. > Thanks Marc


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## matt_man (Feb 11, 2006)

I think that I would look into a possible connection between the death of your heifer and the horse.

nemotodirus causes dehydration and diarrhea and if your heifer had normal feces...this could not have been the cause of her death. Granted, she could have needed a worming but I doubt this is what killed her.


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

I asked the vet and he said that he was on the second 500ml bottle of calcium when she reacted and died. I told him that I had been doing some "research" (you guys are research, right?) into the treatment and was receiving conflicting stories. At the least, would be nice if he didn't charge me for the visit, meds etc.

I feel like I did my best for this heifer. I rotated her around the clock, I gave her the calcium/magnesium etc. recommended above and I had the vet out when it felt that I was not progressing things well enough myself.

Now I have to think about whether the vet did the right thing or not. I really appreciate all your input!

Cliff


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

tell him to do some reasch and ask some OLD DAIRY VETS.....2 will kill them almost every time


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

I did tell him that some very experienced Dairy Farmers said that they would never give 2 bottles to a maiden calf. I'm hoping that he takes it in the spirit of learning and that it prevents other folks from heart ache in the future.

I'm starting to think that I just suck at the dairy cow thing. My venture into the family milk cow has been very unsuccessful. Disappointing but true. I know we have to learn from hard knocks but also have to decide when we're just not up to something.


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

cjb said:


> I'm starting to think that I just suck at the dairy cow thing. My venture into the family milk cow has been very unsuccessful. Disappointing but true. I know we have to learn from hard knocks but also have to decide when we're just not up to something.


Look, you didn't kill your calf, your vet did. Period. When I read what he did I just about blew a gasket, and it's not even my calf! Giving Ca like that was absolutely stupid. 

Don't view this situation, hard as it is, as proof that you can't deal with dairy animals.

Frankly, him telling you about the parasite (that it's lethal), is simply him covering his butt.

I'm furious on your behalf!

Jennifer


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## Karen in Alabam (Jul 21, 2010)

cjb said:


> I'm starting to think that I just suck at the dairy cow thing. My venture into the family milk cow has been very unsuccessful. Disappointing but true. I know we have to learn from hard knocks but also have to decide when we're just not up to something.


You can't quit!

I almost killed all my cows, because of crummy hay. Looking at the hay we have I see it is a load of garbage, we didn't look. The hay we got from him a month ago, wasn't that bad. He must have sold out of the better stuff and saved the crap for me.

So now I have to learn about hay.

I don't know how long you have been at it, I have been only at it since August. I know I have a lot to learn and also know I am going to have more problems down the road. I didn't grow up around these animals and just don't know them yet.

So you have to stick in there for all us Yahoos who are farmer wannabees or farmers in training.


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

I've been watching your progress with the goats and the cows just ahead of me for a few years now Cliff~ you can't really quit now~ too many of us following in your trail. It sucks~ but maybe not time to quit just yet...


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

CJB,

I know how you feel. I had a vet kill a yearling heifer on me with a bad vac shot.
But, your vet should have knowen better. If they know wht they are doing they would never give 2 bottles even to some big cows. But, what the H did he even give calcium. If he was going to IV dextrose would have been the best beat with lac rings too.
That vet would never hear the end of it from me about it.He is a very incompatant fool.
Bob


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Oh, I am so sorry. And I would be very angry!


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

I havenât looked at this thread for a few days. Sorry about your loss. I know the feeling about wanting to quit â Iâve done it many times.

What youâll want to do is feel rotten for a few weeks. Consider taking up some other hobby like golf. Then realize that isnât who you are. Then start considering your next cow.

Edison screwed up hundreds of times before coming up with the light bulb. Each failure brought him closer to success. You have some great learning experiences and now know more. Everyone with enough cows and time has had deaths.

As for this case, it seems most consistent with the white muscle disease or selenium deficiency mentioned by others. I was reading in the merck manual and these statements struck me as related to your heifer:

âSigns vary with dietary selenium status; in some areas, general unthriftiness may be the only sign associated with selenium deficiency.â
âIn mild casesâand particularly in older animalsâdiagnosis can be difficult, and laboratory studies may be necessary.â

Low selenium hay/feed come from volcanic soils which applies to Oregon, and Washington where Iâm from. I give high selenium salt/mineral mix with the feed and still have had weak calves needing a shot of selenium/vitE. Now I give the cow a shot before calving. She had retained placenta once which can be associated with low selenium.

As for anger at the vet. Yes, some relief from the bill would be good. My problem is everyone expects a lot for relatively little cost. If your heifer was a human, sheâd be hospitalized and youâd be spending many thousands of dollars for diagnostics and treatment by doctors with years of specialized internships and residencies after completion of medical school. Vet students have volumes of information thrown at them in vet school on many species, and one can forget one line and make a mistake. Mistakes in many types of work are fixable, but not with a dead animal.

I see a future when you wonât be able to get any vets out to the farm. Why come and earn a fraction of what alternatives offer, and when mistakes are made, get beat up by irate animal owners.


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## poischis (Feb 2, 2011)

I'm sorry for your loss, but you did all that heifer needed, don't blame yourself. according that she died during the IV, its most likely the cause of her death, 2 bottle is wayyy to much for a heifer that small, and I want to remember everyone to warm the fluids berore IVing, that may also kill a cattle. Let the fluids flow slowly, 5 minutes for a bottle is good enough. Good luck for next time!

-Poischis


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