# Exterminator questions re Rats/Mice



## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Any Exterminators here? Or anyone more experienced with rat/mice problems? We need advice and suggestions please.

We are working on a property with a serious rat/mouse infestation. For about 5 weeks we have been setting out DCon pellets in the trays. Rats/mice have eaten at least 12 whole trays in the crawlspace and 8 trays inside the house. 

Activity had slowed down, or so we assumed, since after about 3 weeks the DCon was no longer eaten. But, last week we discovered dead mouse bodies in the house and in closets. Something else has died under the house since the crawlspace reeks of death.

Today we set out the solid chunks (they had a hole in each chunk and so we threaded them on coat hangers and connected the coat hangers to things so the rats cannot just drag it off). We put 6 chunks inside the house, 6 chunks in the crawl space and 12 chunks in an abandoned building right close next to the house.

The Homeowners had set out small mouse traps but nothing was in the traps. 

Questions:
- Since the DCon was eaten at first, and then not eaten for about 2 weeks, does that mean the rats/mice learned to leave it alone? Or just did not like it? Or some ate it and died and now there are new ones?
- Around here there are rats called Wood Rats or Pack Rats. Will DCon kill those too? If no, then what will kill them?

Thank you for suggestions. 

PS: We cannot use the water in a bucket method since we are not at the house enough to monitor the bucket. Thank you.


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## bajiay (Apr 8, 2008)

I talked to an exterminator from Orkin last year. He told me to never put out poison, as to them it is food, and they will keep coming back. He told me to find every 1/4 hole and crevice that the mice could be coming in, and fill it with that spray foam stuff. For the rats, he said to find their way of entry and block it. Patch concrete or what have you. He said rats are hard to get rid of, especially if the mother, or queen, leaves her smell in a place cuz the males will keep coming and trying to find her. He also said to use traps, the ones with the yellow plastic piece on them, cuz he said they work better. He said to use peanut butter on them. I did what he said. This was helping out an elderly couple in our church whose house was infested! It did work after much effort. I don't know if this helps you, but good luck!


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## Guest (May 28, 2012)

If you set out those trays with little chunks of poison in them the mice will carry the chunks away & store them . Could be the dead ones you're finding now are newcomers that have found the stockpiles .


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## unregistered97395 (Feb 28, 2011)

I've had friends who've had a lot of success with d-con, so when I got mildly infested last winter, I tried it and it worked. I also put out glue traps every where, which was very effective at catching the new generation. I did all this in December, I think? and haven't seen a mouse since.

I see you're getting some nays here on its use, but it's worked for me and for other people I know. I think the trick might be to be persistent and to couple it with other things, like glue traps or ??? The glue traps worked like a charm for me on the babies, but YMMV.

Edited to add: I had problems with rats years ago, and bait bars (and a jack terrier across the road) worked wonders on them.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

I've been using a pellet rifle in our rabbit shed. Don't like the idea of dead mice and poison inside there. I think I am down to the last 2, from about 20.
The last 2 know what the pellet rifle is, and are getting really fast so i cann't hit them. Those i might try a baited trap with before they reproduce and i have to start over again.


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

The problem with DCon is most varieties available are multiple feed granular. This means a mouse or rat must continue to eat it until it reaches a lethal dose. Some will stop eating it and survive. The granules are taken by mice that want to keep it for themselves, so they take it home and return for more. So you cannot tell how many mice are still present.

A better bait is a single feed bait in a block form. This means a single bite will kill the rodent. Even with this bait, death can take a week to 10 days. The coat hanger idea above is fine. It can also be nailed somewhere that pets or kids cannot get it.

My suggestions is to use multiple things: snap traps, glue boards, and bait. PLUS close the mouse doors. A mouse can get under a 1/4" door gap on a run. This means not only doors, but the foundation edges where siding overhangs, and anything breaks into the structure.

Using multiple things means something every 8 feet. Place things against the walls or under things, like couches, refrigerators, stoves, stairways, pantry shelves, etc.

good luck
gary


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Oh gosh - if we are supposed to be placing the bait every 8 feet then we sure need to get back over there tomorrow. The glue boards might be a good addition too. OK - sounds like we have more work to do. 

Thank you everyone.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

Be extremely careful if you have pets. Many dogs die each year because they find a dead mouse and eat it injecting the poison along with it. My cousin's golden retriever did this and ended up in the vets icu for 3 weeks. It was $10k by the time the dog got home and he nearly died more then once. 
Also rats are extremely smart when the come across a new "food" they will take a tiny test bite. If they have a reaction they know not to eat it again. Other rats in the colony also learn from each other. Best bet is to get some cats that are good mousers. The mice are going to keep coming so unless you always plan on keeping poison and traps out and not having pets you will always be battling them. When we moved in we had mice and rats everywhere the kitchen, the bedrooms, the attic, the garage, the crawl space under the house even the bathrooms. We saw a minimum of 10 a day. We got a cat and I thought him how to kill mice. Within a month there were no mice from anywhere. The cat even learned our "there's a mouse in the bedroom scream" and he would come running. When our house was mouse and rat free he went to the neighbors and took care of their mouse problem too. He is by far the best mouser I have ever had. We don't even have mice in the shed where I keep the feed because Hobie goes in there and spends hours waiting for something to move.


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

I had success with glue traps placed along the runways, with a dab of peanut butter in the middle. Be careful where you put them; I caught a small bird in one (inside the barn) and had to dispatch the poor creature as he was hopelessly glued. Does anyone know if there's a safe way to un-glue a 'friendly' that gets caught in a glue trap?


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

Peanut butter will work for getting things off glue traps. Some vegetable oils will also. Of course, then you have a very greasy animal LOL


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

It is required to limit access to bait by kids, pets, and other non-target things. Secondary poisoning is more common in birds that eat mice than dogs or cats. 

The only time in my 3 decades of pest control that we had a report of a pet having to go to the vet was when a dog was able to dig out a block of bait that was under a cement patio in the back yard. The owner noticed the hole and called. Response was quick enough to prevent health problems with the dog.

There is a bait, Quintox, that has no risk of secondary poisoning that would be a good choice in a homestead environment, like the barn. I dont think you will find it at the ranch/farm supply.

I apologize for not being more thorough in my suggestion of 8 ft between things. This is the strategy I would use for a new customer to get immediate results, like in 1 night. I would show up at closing time, place the traps, bait, etc. Then return at dawn to pick them all up. I did one of the small drive through franchize restaurants and placed 80 things overnight. I captured 200 (dead + alive).

Following removal of dead or captured mice, I would place poison bait only in tamper proof containers or places inaccessable by other critters (like behind the kickplate beneath the kitchen cabinets. This would follow closing the mouse doors.

Crawl spaces are often ignored, but they can be a major rodent habitat with multiple entries into the living space above. They love the top edge of the foundation that holds up the floor.

Glue boards collect all kinds of things, like critters, bugs, and dirt. I had to remove a few birds, and a few snakes. The worse thing about glue boards is you have to listen to the trapped mouse squeal. My use of glue boards was primarily very short duration, not for long term control.

Gang traps are another of the type of devices that I would place with glue boards, snap traps, and poison. Most of these have a glue board inside the trap.

Also, stop feeding the mice. This means limit their access to food. Dry dog or cat food is one common thing people leave out overnight. Pick it up and put the bulk pet food into a metal can with a lid. Birds also provide food for rodents. Pet birds are messy eaters. Outdoor bird feeders are another food source.

Good luck
gary


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Here is a tidbit of info. Mice and rats leak urine as they travel. The urine odor is how they determine where their travel path exists. The urine odor will last up to 6 months so I was told. Any new rodents that cross that urine path will pick up the trail and follow it to where the previous rodents visited. That is how a place gets reinfested!


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## Coloneldad5 (Dec 6, 2011)

I can't quite remember the details but I have heard of a mixture using plaster. You mix it with something like sugar and leave it out. As the mice/rats eat it it will solidify in the stomach and then block the digestive system and ultimately the rodent will die of starvation. It's supposed to be a fairly harmless method if a larger pet stumbles across it and will not harm any secondary predators that may eat the mouse/rat.


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Thank you everyone. The home we are working at is a vacation home and so there are not any dogs/cats there. Also, there is not much food left around. I suspect it is so bad since they have not done anything last year about it and there is an abandoned trailer nearby. We had not put bait in the trailer but yesterday we did. I hope that will help.

We are going to clean the house and use Clorox wipes and spray to get rid of the urine. It is a big mess.

We used wire coat hangers and threaded the solid chunks of bait on it and set it out yesterday. The DCon just is not working. I hate to use the chunks since they are dragged off and you just don't know what happened to them but I hope the coat hangers work to hold the chunks in place. 

Thank you.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

When using sap traps i have had to nail them to large pecies of wood so they don't drag them off too.


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Last year when we could not find the Tom Cat pellets, we bought two bags of the solid chunks. We did not set them out and the bags were in our basement on the steps. Two days later - just 2 days later - all 32 chunks were gone! The bag had been ripped open and all 32 chunks dragged down the steps and up a half wall and under the crawl space. We could see little chips of paper in a trail where the Rats dragged the chunks.

Now we have 32 chunks of poison under the house. We have to wait for a day when we can lock up the dogs and cats and open up the whole area - not easy since the house is built in six sections and search for the bait. 

It is very annoying to not be able to find the Tom Cat pellets. I understand the safety reasons but it is still a problem that we do not have a good alternate choice.


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## flcracker (May 28, 2012)

Steps of rodent remediation

1. Inspection/ID pest (rat or mice and species)
2. sanitation 
3. exclusion
4. bait/traps
5. monitor

Remember rats are cautious mice are curious. Ill let you guys in on one of my secrets that makes me alot of money...........We all think of peanut butter. SLIM JIMS are excellent bait for snap traps as it buys you an extra second for trap to engage. half inch and smaller holes need plugged as some one mentioned earlier - steel wool. 

Im new here Ive learned alot from you guys thought id try and help. I am CPCO in lawn and ornamental, General household pest and rodent, termite and wood destroying insect ,aquatics, and public health (mosquito)


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Thank you everyone! I like the list flcracker made. Good list. 

The Tom Cat people just replied to my emails. They said a product called Hawk Rodenticide is the same thing as the Tom Cat pellets and gave me a link where to order. We are going to order a small amount or call an Agricultural store and see if they have it.


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## Missy M (Mar 2, 2007)

Pick it up - put it up - clean it up.

Pick up anything lying in a pile where mice can nest

Put up anything that could be food for them in mouse proof containers (especially pet food) never let it lay out, when the animals are done put what's left in a container.

Clean up anything you spill or drop that could be food for them

Do this outside around the house and yard as well - these areas will also attract mice


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

It is illegal to take granuals of fly bait/killer, Blue Marlin, or something like that and put it in a pan with sugar water, Coke is fine, and leave it wher the varmits can feed on it. It is known to kill mice, rats, wood chucks, raccoons, etc.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

If the mice stop eating the bait, it may be because their water source has dried up. Put a couple jar lids full of water near the bait. Black licorice also works well as a bait if tied to the trigger with thread.


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Black licorice? What does that do? Did you mean to use it in a trap?

The place we are working does not have any food nor pet food around! It is a part time home and the family are not there but a few times a year. I think the rodent problem got out of control since there is an abandoned trailer nearby and the owner of the house thought it would be enough to just set out one or two small trays of DCon but that was not enough. Now...the rodent population exploded and will just take time and effort to get things under control and cleaned up.

We are taking the advice from above and setting out more bait and different types. We had put out too little bait. We will also put some water out but I don't think lack of water is the trouble but it won't hurt to be sure water is available. 

We are using three types of bait now: The plain ole DCon in pellet trays / the solid Tom Cat chunks secured by a heavy board / and another solid chuck that had a hole in it and we we secured it by stringing it on coat hangers. We have not checked it for almost three days and so we will check today and see what happened.

We are cleaning the whole place tomorrow with Clorox solutions and also starting Peppermint oil treatment. Will keep checking back since we appreciate all the good ideas and tips.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Sealing up andall that doesn't work on the farm, outdoors, etc. Our house is rodent proof. I built it that way and it really is. Outdoors there are rodents.

Dogs, cats and ferrets are another control to add to the arsenal of traps and poisons.

For the poison getting ingested by dogs, what I have read is Vitamin K1 is the antidote.

Cheers,

-Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project:
ButcherShop | Sugar Mountain Farm


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

meanwhile said:


> Black licorice? What does that do? Did you mean to use it in a trap?
> 
> The place we are working does not have any food nor pet food around! It is a part time home and the family are not there but a few times a year. I think the rodent problem got out of control since there is an abandoned trailer nearby and the owner of the house thought it would be enough to just set out one or two small trays of DCon but that was not enough. Now...the rodent population exploded and will just take time and effort to get things under control and cleaned up.
> 
> ...


Yes, put it in traps. Mice have very poor eyesight but they can smell very well. Also, keep any dead mice picked up because there is nothing mice like better than chewing into the back of a dead mouse's head and eating its brain. They also operate on smell and have a slight sense of radar like a bat. That is why you will hear them squeal when running along a wall. The sound bounces back to them and tells them how far they are from the next wall.


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## Packedready (Mar 29, 2011)

I have a house that is on a raised foundation. The house is sealed from rats but the underside got infested. I have cleared out the insullation that was under the house and the underside has been sealed anywhere there was a small opening. There is rate feces and urine. I am wondering what I should do about that? We are working on the building today and tomorrow. Let me know what you think. Thanks


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## OnlyMe (Oct 10, 2010)

MushCreek said:


> I had success with glue traps placed along the runways, with a dab of peanut butter in the middle. Be careful where you put them; I caught a small bird in one (inside the barn) and had to dispatch the poor creature as he was hopelessly glued. Does anyone know if there's a safe way to un-glue a 'friendly' that gets caught in a glue trap?



I accidentally had a chipmunk get caught on a glue trap. I was able to get him off by dousing the board with vegetable oil and "helping" him along. LOL Talk about a bad day for him.


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## dragonfly (Jan 5, 2010)

I am having real issues with either field mice or wood rats...Those vermin eat the wiring in our vehicles! They destroyed the wiring in our Ford Bronco, and we didn't notice the damages until we started and drove the thing...It shorted out the ignition system and the cost was well over $200! As a last resort ( after a trial and error of all kinds of traps and baits) we used Decon..Bad mistake! Caretakers' dog found a dead rat/mouse, and ate it. $3,000 and several vet visits later and the dog still died.
I know we have the problem from the first day up north, as I was worried about the possibility of them being a "white footed field mouse", that can carry the HANTA virus.
So far they all appear to be some sort of big rat....They are destructive and now we have to rewire our water tailer lights...I had left a 5 gallon bucket about 1/4 full of water outside and overnight after setting up a temporary outdoor shower ..
The next morning we had 6 drowned rats in the thing!
I had brought up some various cacti and aloe vera and other plants in an attempt to see what would "take" up north. Well, they lasted about 15 minutes....They were ravaged by a hoarde of vermin, just as soon as the sun went down!
I am researching some ideas, one was the easiest, uisng 1/4 inch hardware cloth to put around the buildings to keep them from chewing their way inside...
But that won't work on vehicles! 
So, I am designing a hot wire fence, with pvc pipe ( schedule 40, 3/4 inch x 21 inches in height.) I am drilling holes ( 1/16th inch) starting 9-12 inches up from the bottom, ( for burying) at 1/2 inch intervals...that continues up the pipe until it's about 6 inches from the top. Then I'll string electric fence wire thru the holes, and use as many as I'll need figuring about 1 pole for every 6 feet, and enough to cover a 24-30 ft long area (5-6 each side) and at least 10-12 feet in width, ( 2 on each end). Then I will wire in a fence charge controller, alternating the positive and negative connectors, where they will be no more than 1/2 inch apart. Now why I am doing this is due to the nature of the soil and it's moisture content. Far too dry to carry the shock current to do much at all. We tested it with an 8 ft copper ground rod and it was almost useless! By having the wires connected in that way, any rat or mouse ( even snakes) will get ZAPPED when they try to go thru the fence lines.
Using an el-cheapo ( $60) fence Charger, I chose to use .030 aluminum welding wire for the fencing. It carries the voltage a LOT better and much HOTTER than any steel or galvanized wires! The voltage is about 6-8 Kv. And the chargers are supposed to be rated to cover a single wire fence for up to 5 miles... on such a short run, it will be quite HOT, that should stop some of the vermin!
Biggest problem is making a pvc gate, to be able to open and close the area/s off....
Should be interesting!
Any ideas welcomed!
Bill


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

dragonfly: Good luck! I do not know what to suggest. We used DCon and the solid chunks on the property where my sons are Care Taking. But, there are no dogs and no cats around so it was safe to use the DCon.

After someone above suggested we might have not set out enough bait trays, the boys went back and put DCon and solid chunks in every room of the house and in the crawl space. The DCon was eaten (again - for two weeks nothing ate DCon for some reason) but very little of the solid chunks was eaten.

There was an old barn building near the house. It was infested too and I think what really finally worked was that the boys treated the barn too. It was an old trailer building with rooms and so they put both DCon and solid chunks in every room. Again, same as the house, the Dcon was eaten quickly this time but only a little of the solid chunks. They continued to set out DCon until it was no longer eaten. 

Now, they rotate DCon and solid chunks to be sure the problems does not return. 

I think you are going to have to get rid of the rats/mice all around the place or they will just keep bothering your vehicles. I am not sure but I bet a rat or mouse can get through or under most any electric device rigged up? Not sure. Maybe someone else here has made something similar.

Are there any more dogs on the property? If not , try the Dcon and see if you can get rid of them.

Can you get a couple of Barn Cats? 

Good luck. It is a frustrating and expensive problem.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

You have pack rats. My house in NM gets them as well.

Use LOTS of 5 gal buckets about 1/3-1/2 full, as the rats will try and drink and drown.

Snap traps & pnut butter work great for the deer mice, which ARE carriers of the Hanta virus.

Plan on doing it the rest of your life.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

PVC pipe melted when we tried to use it as insulated pipe. Just so you know before you put in all the work... Your experience may differ.

Also, Clorox wipes don't remove all the urine odor. Vinegar will. It neutralizes the proteins in the urine.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

DCon is worthless to me. I can put it out all year round and not kill anything. Might as well use a piece of bread.
Just One Bite bar seems to work good. They eat it and I see dead rats within 2 days.
I have to repeat it for a while as they eat it up. It works good for me.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Talk with a local exterminator about using a liquid poison. 

We had an infestation in the past and the exterminator used liquid poison that worked like a charm.

Jim


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this is a repeat. But Dcon is like cotton candy to mice and rats in my experience. You need some agricultural stuff like bar bait that you use in barns and other feed areas. Go to a feed store and get the stronger stuff. 
http://www.stockmens.com/images/products/29378.jpg


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

At the job where my son's worked, they tried DCon and at first nothing would eat it. They used the granuals from Ag Store and it was eaten but then, the rodents stopped eating it and went back to the DCon! Next they stopped eating the DCon and went to the solid chunks. I think these were the Tom Cat chunks. Just when we thought that was working , rodents stopped eating it and returned to the Dcon.

They are leaving two types out at a time and moving it every week. So far, things are under control now but it took two full months to kill them all.


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## Jim S. (Apr 22, 2004)

I am going to tell you straight up what we did.

When we bought this old house, it had a mouse problem. Snap traps were not effective. In fact, they were a joke, catching just enough mice to let us know we still had a problem! So after consulting some old-timers, here's what we did.

1. We devised a trap out of a two-gallon bucket with 3" of water in the bottom. We took a tin can, folded the lid back down and punched holes in each end. We threaded a coathanger wire through it so it would spin on it, and laid the wire across the bucket. In the middle of the can, we smeared a strip of peanut butter. Last, we added a board so the mice could walk up it, across the wire, and onto the can. We placed this trap in the least trafficked part of our house, the laundry room.

2. Next, we visually went over every aspect of the outside of the house, from the dirt to the peak of the roof, and sealed every single crack, crevice, hole or gap we could find. It is amazing how thin a crack a mouse can get through.

3. Next, we put out D-Con Rat & Mouse bait in two locations under the house and also a chunk in every room of the house. We carefully monitored and replaced the baits as they were consumed.

4. Next, we put every single items of food like bread, pasta, cookies, beans, etc. in sealed containers or glass jars. Bread was stored in the microwave. The idea is to force the mice to eat the bait only.

Here is what happened:

1. Every week, we had between 3 and 5 mice drowned in the bucket. At first, it was a lot more than that.

2. Our crevice control kept mice from coming in during the fall when they seek warmth.

3. The baits were eaten fast at first, but then gradually less and less was consumed. 

Because food was scarcer, the mice were starving so they ate the baits. Within 6 months, we had only the very rare occasional sign of a mouse. At 10 months, we were mouse-free. 

It's been 4 years now since I last saw a mouse in the house. We still keep the baits in each room, hidden behind furniture. We are not totally mouse-free, because occasionally a bait will be nibbled, but we have had zero actual sightings, no pilferage or ruining of food and no dropping problems. We continue to replace bait that is consumed and to monitor the outside of the house for cracks and holes, which we repair quickly.

Maybe this will help you. My only other suggestion is that if you have animals you feed outdoors, do not feed them near your house. Feed them as far away as you can. Their food attracts rodents.


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## dragonfly (Jan 5, 2010)

CarolT..
Why did the pvc pipe melt?
Mine only has a pulse every other second and never gets warm....
Now looking at using 1/4" hardware cloth as a screen, above and below at an angle so they nearly touch at the rear but opened at the front about 3 inches...the bottom will be the ground connection with the upper being the positive (hot) side...
Any critter that enters and tries to get thru gets zapped.
They are separated by 1 x 4 pine boards at an angle, on each side.
Time to get down and dirty on them RATS!
Bill


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

bajiay said:


> I talked to an exterminator from Orkin last year. He told me to never put out poison, as to them it is food, and they will keep coming back. He told me to find every 1/4 hole and crevice that the mice could be coming in, and fill it with that spray foam stuff. For the rats, he said to find their way of entry and block it. Patch concrete or what have you. He said rats are hard to get rid of, especially if the mother, or queen, leaves her smell in a place cuz the males will keep coming and trying to find her. He also said to use traps, the ones with the yellow plastic piece on them, cuz he said they work better. He said to use peanut butter on them. I did what he said. This was helping out an elderly couple in our church whose house was infested! It did work after much effort. I don't know if this helps you, but good luck!


This is a good reason why you should never use Orkin for any type of pest control issue. There are several things wrong with what he told you. The spray foam thing is the funniest though. A mouse or rat can chew through almost anything, and the spray foam wouldn't even slow them down. Steel wool however, works quite well to seal up gaps and cracks.


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

And just so you know, the smell of dead rats and mice will go away in a few weeks. It can get stinky. Thats why i prefer not to use "baits". Well that and after my experience with ants and "bait"

The one problem with "bait" is that you are "baiting" the mice and rats to come to you. Basically they think your feeding them so they call in all their buddies. I prefer snap traps or other dead kill devices so that way you can dispose of the bodies and you know they are dead.

I had a mouse problem for a while here, i went out bought a dozen snap traps and after about 6 months of sealing holes, cleaning up, checking and resetting traps I have been rodent free for years. They also sell rat snap traps (be careful they are strong)

It may seem like your fighting a loosing battle but for every dead rodent you haul outta there it is one less one to have babies (and you will have problems with them as they grow up if your truely infested.)

As is true with any pest if you get rid of their home they will move on to better grounds. so try to find where they are bedding at and clean it up and make it inhospitable to them.

I know it will be hard to do as your not there all the time but to properly rid yourself of them it takes time and effort (usually not as easy as just setting out bait) but it will be well worth it because once you have rid yourself of them they will stay gone unless you invite them back.

Edited to add: Just for everyones info. NEVER "bait" ants in Florida. after a few weeks of "baiting" them I coulda made a Steven King movie called "Ants"


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

Dragonfly, as another poster in NM said, it's pack rats you have. They're the bane of rural and suburban homeowners all over the SW, particularly for their persistent and repeating damage to vehicles parked outside. They don't explore house interiors especially and seem content to feed on normal food sources outside like mesquite and palo verde tree seeds but they also build a series of smaller nests radiating away from primary "midden" colony areas. All of those will be defended with chunks of cholla cacti in particular so you can suddenly find yourself jabbed when reaching into what you thought was a neatly organized box of stuff left stored outside or in a storage shed, or brushing at a "dusty" area on top of your vehicle's engine block or air filter. My neighbor across the way just had to have over a $thou$ work done repairing his parked motor home's gas tank pump wiring as well as engine compartment damage. He had even left it jacked up in the front with several big fluorescent lights on underneath it constantly. Running lights like that to a couple of places on a parked vehicle not being driven daily seems to be the most effective deterrent, along with putting a couple of socks full of mothballs in the engine compartment and/or leaving the hood up overnight.

Since the pack rats are completely native critters, they'll just keep propagating and coming around house edges exploring and starting up new nests, I suppose as a chain of "safe rooms" from coyotes and other predators during nighttime food gathering. I have trouble with them getting at container-grown veggies overnight as well as general fouling of any boxes of "stuff" casually stored along a side porch and open breezeway as well as in sheds, garage, and an old travel trailer. At least not trying to kill off things like big gopher snakes in particular, as well as owls, coyotes, and even bobcats should help keep open brushy areas in a natural balance. Poisons probably kill off those beneficial predators as well as being a pet danger so I avoid using them for pack rats although have used DeCon a few times for interior storage shed problems. Mostly, I put out Hav-A-Heart live traps baited with bread along house edges and out into the brushy area when I notice droppings or veggie damage overnight. The trap helps keep them still enough for a clean later head shot with a pellet rifle. DW keeps telling me to "take them out in the desert" and release. Riiight. I'll do that. Not.

Edit add: Having outdoor cats won't work well in the desert areas for pack rats since coyotes, bobcats, and owls will kill and eat even the most savvy housecats eventually. The average lifespan for cats allowed outdoors around here is around 3-4 years but 15 or so if indoors only. If you value any smallish pets you do NOT let them out even into a fenced backyard during daytime, much less at night, not in the desert.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I wanted to bump this up, its good information. 
I killed Master splinter, and he decayed in my wall....ewwwwwwww
Now, all the mini minions have taken over my farm.
I woke up this morning to another death smell and I havent set out any posion since the last death. So I am assuming they are eating the dead one and dying from it?

I had one Mob boss, now they are everywhere, I am at war!!!


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## sdnapier (Aug 13, 2010)

I see you are in western NC. Here in the south we have water bugs/giant roaches/1-1/2 inch long brown bugs/don't know the real name. They love D-Con and it doesn't kill them. They eat it all day long. So you might think the mice are carrying off the poison because it keeps disappearing but the bugs are eating it. Sticky traps get rid of the bugs and some mice.

My sister had a mouse problem. I found a mouse hole in a corner of her living room floor and, not having anything else at that moment, I filled it with toothpaste. We laughed ourselves silly a few minutes later when we heard the mouse on the other side of the paste "chew" us out. Man, did it chatter. I realize now it was probably the peppermint.


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## NorthwoodsMike (Jun 10, 2013)

Early in the thread the water bucket method was discouraged because the owner wasn't home often. If antifreeze is used instead of water, the chemicals preserve the rodent, eliminating the smell. Still not pleasant, but more humane than glue traps. It also self-resets.

If a person is going to be home often, and has pets/young children, these traps are great. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NCTKTM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

We had a big issue with mice getting into our cars. Glue failed. Poison failed, or would cause them to die in places we couldn't get to. We have a dog, and a baby, and didn't want them to get into a standard snap trap, or the poison, so we tried the above trap. It's excellent. So easy to set. Strong enough to kill the mouse, but not injure a pet or person. I highly recommend it.


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## gunsmithgirl (Sep 28, 2003)

Our biggest help with mice and rats has been rat terriers. They will kill 10X more mice in a day than cats ever thought of, and will take out big rats with a vengeance.


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