# weeping vs corkscew willow: any difference?



## Ceres Hil (Aug 13, 2008)

So I have a weeping willow at home and the buns/pig love it! I want to get more for the farm, but can only find corkscrew.

Does corkscrew have the same protein properties etc?


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

They would likely be similar. Try googling the botanical name of corkscrew willow plus keywords like *rabbits, protein, forage, nutrients.* 

Here are two of the willow articles that I have used:

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGP/AGPC/doc/pasture/peshawarproceedings/willow.pdf

http://world-rabbit-science.com/WRSA-Proceedings/Congress-2008-Verona/Papers/W-Rizzi.pdf


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Just occurred to me... Is corkscrew willow a true willow, a member of _salix_ family? It is not that common around here (you occasionally see it as an ornamental) and I cannot vouch for it as a rabbit food... So be sure you do your research before using it.


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## Ceres Hil (Aug 13, 2008)

Salix matsudana `Tortuosa'

Here is the name...


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Okay... you're all set to embark on the wonderful world of bunny fodder research. I can't do it all. Enjoy!


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## vikav (Mar 30, 2009)

According to this, it is from the family Salicaceae. Maggie, does it make it ok to feed?


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## o&itw (Dec 19, 2008)

Weeping willow, _Salix babylonica_, is about the easiest thing in the world to grow your own. 

It would be better if you would do this in the late spring, but it can be done almost any time. Cut off a branch 1/2 or so in diameter, then starting at the base end, cut it every 10 inches. Stick the cuttings in moist to very moist soil, and in a few weeks they will develop roots. If you plant in a moist place, like along a creek or in a moist bottoms, it will grow extremely fast.

 many years ago when I lived in town, the fellow in the lot uphill from me had a septic system which wasn't the best and seeped down into my yard. I mentioned it a few times that he might want to get it fixed, but he didn't seem much interested. I had small children then and didn't much care for his attidude, so I started a willow cutting that year, and the next year (it was about 3/4 around and 3 feet tall) I planted it about 6' away from his property line. In 3 years it was 30 feet high and over 6" in diameter. The ground remained totaly dry on top after the second year. Probably didn't help his leach-field much...but he didn't leave me much choice except for going to the health department which I really didn't want to do.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Okay, it is a willow, a _salix_, so it is *probably *okay for rabbits. But you guys have got to learn to check these things yourselves sometimes. I like to help, but I am busy, tired and overworked just now... just like everyone else. 

You enter the botanical name and then keywords, one or two at a time: *toxicity, toxic, rabbits, forage *etc. If cottontails eat it, this is a good sign. If it says it is rabbit resistant, that may mean it is not good for your buns either. This is what I do to find out what is safe. It is time-consuming and sometimes you find out other interesting things but a lot of the time it is very routine.


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## brody (Feb 19, 2009)

MaggieJ said:


> :grouphug: I like to help, but I am busy, tired and overworked just now... just like everyone else.


:grouphug:

awwwww maggie - we aren't as lazy as we seem - we just :bow: before your wisdom 

but yah guys - get off maggies back :gossip: she's gotta name a rabbit .. 
(and clean her chicken coop!)

you'll whip us into shape in no time maggie - :drillsgt: actually thanks for walking us through your searchs .. I do the name of whatever then rabbit then toxic but your terms would get much more specific info


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Thanks for understanding, Brody. I guess I am just grumpy today. :badmood: 

It just seems like the old adage: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for today. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." I want you guys to learn to fish.


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## brody (Feb 19, 2009)

but I don't like fishin' 

I totally agree with you Maggie - it's great to have the board as a resource but asking you to do all the research is something else - bouncing off our findings is helpful and may glean more info for everybody all round

I am in a CRANKY mood today too - did a little work but just generally crabby and irritable - wonder if there is something in the air


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

brody said:


> but I don't like fishin'
> 
> I totally agree with you Maggie - it's great to have the board as a resource but asking you to do all the research is something else - bouncing off our findings is helpful and may glean more info for everybody all round
> 
> I am in a CRANKY mood today too - did a little work but just generally crabby and irritable - wonder if there is something in the air


Well, to be totally fair, no one forces me to answer the questions. I could ignore them, I suppose. 

Maybe it is something in the air. The weather feels like its going to change abruptly. It's like waiting for the the other shoe to drop. My moods are all over the map and my joints ache and I'm out of aspirin... Maybe I should go chew on some willow bark or something.


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## Ceres Hil (Aug 13, 2008)

Maggie

You are a godsend---as highlands is to pigs, you are to rabbits! Please take it as a compliment!!!
Sorry to burden you... but appreciate your help,
CH

I am keeping three buns as a control group at home to measure feed intake, conversion etc so I can finetune farm ops next year... I have learned a lot from you and am glad to have a ready supply of blackberry, rasp and willow on hand. I continue to feed pellets and red wheat/rolled oats.
Mixed it up yesterday giving some BOSS--that was a hit too!


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Well, I did just that... chewed some willow bark from our weeping willow tree. Nasty bitter stuff... but the joint pain was gone in less than fifteen minutes. I'm even a bit less grumpy.


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## brody (Feb 19, 2009)

Yay!!


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## o&itw (Dec 19, 2008)

Just for general information, the common willow growing around ponds and creeks in the US, east of the rockies is _Salix *****_.

The Chinese willow is _Salix matsudana_. There is a cultivar of this known as _Salix matsudana _variey _tortuosa_ that is sold in nurserys having a "corkscrew" appearance of its smaller branches.


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## Terry W (Mar 10, 2006)

please notice-- _salix=Salicaceae-- this very special word then translates to -salicidic acid- which we call 'aspirin'

Some Aspen also contain this very special acid in the cambium layers.( green layer just under a tree's bark) Aspens are in the 'poplar' family-- so be carefull--not all poplars are created equally.

I love the black willows- they grow in such strange directions out here-- And the corkscrew willows have such a distinctive, mature bark.

Terry W_


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Terry W said:


> please notice-- _salix=Salicaceae-- this very special word then translates to -salicidic acid- which we call 'aspirin'
> 
> Some Aspen also contain this very special acid in the cambium layers.( green layer just under a tree's bark) Aspens are in the 'poplar' family-- so be carefull--not all poplars are created equally.
> 
> Terry W_


_

Hi Terry.  Nice to see you with us again.

This whole issue of salicidic acid in certain tree barks is one that I am attempting to find more information about as it relates to these trees and their use as food for rabbits. As you know, I have been feeding willow regularly for the past several years without apparent problems. I also feed smaller quantities of poplar (cottonwood) when it is available. 

There is no doubt in my mind about the presence of salicidic acid in the bark of these trees. That's what had me chewing the bark myself last evening when I had joint pain and no aspirin in the house. The question seems to be whether this is a problem for the rabbits or not. Willow is fed extensively to cattle and other livestock in other parts of the world, again without apparent problems. Anything you can come up with on this subject would be very welcome!_


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## o&itw (Dec 19, 2008)

The substances in willow bark is salicylic acid. Salicidic acid is a related chemical used to remove warts and help with acne.

The problem with acetyl salicylic acid (asprin) is that it, in strong concentrations can disolve the lining gel in the human stomach that protects the stomach walls from the fairly low pH hydrochloric acid that is created by the body to help breakdown proteins.

This typifies one of the problems with "generic" drugs. High quality asprin disloves into small particles quickly in the stomach, limiting the effects of the asprin from concentrating in any one spot. "Cheap" asprin, while the same chemical, is manufactured in a less precise process withs the binders, and tends to not disolve and disperse as much. This results in the asprin concentrating in one spot. You can test this out for yourself. Drop a Bayer asprin in a glass of water, and drop an offbrand asprin in a diferent glass. Wasit a few seconds an then swirl each glass a couple of times. (BTW, I am not promoting 
Bayer here...they make an promote a lot of dangerous pesticides...the do make high quality asprin, though)


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

o&itw said:


> The substances in willow bark is salicylic acid. Salicidic acid is a related chemical used to remove warts and help with acne.


You're right, of course. :doh: I thought it didn't look quite right. Thanks!


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## a7736100 (Jun 4, 2009)

"Weeping willow, _Salix babylonica_, is about the easiest thing in the world to grow your own. 

It would be better if you would do this in the late spring, but it can be done almost any time. Cut off a branch 1/2 or so in diameter, then starting at the base end, cut it every 10 inches. Stick the cuttings in moist to very moist soil, and in a few weeks they will develop roots. If you plant in a moist place, like along a creek or in a moist bottoms, it will grow extremely fast."


I have a twig sitting in a pail of water and it's developed a whole bunch of roots.


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