# I'm bloody well tired



## arcticow (Oct 8, 2006)

of the small bands of bullies on SEVERAL of these forums... There is only one way to view things, THEIR way, and no, civil discourse is not going to be allowed until all posters agree with them or SHUT UP!! There is no discussion, only these folks constantly pointing out where others are wrong, to the extent of insinuating that any thought agreeing is treasonous, evil or just insane. I can name a half-dozen examples on most days. MANY folks who used to be members of HT have left due to the nastiness and outright hatefulness. I will be interested to see what this eventually boils down to... Maybe a hundred or so like mind eventually backslapping each other constantly?? I have to wonder how the new site owners expect to get supporting members... Why pay to be harassed, insulted, and shut out? My rant is concluded.:hobbyhors


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Take a break! 'Tis that easy! Walk away. 

Those bullies are just faceless people pounding on their keyboards! You never met them nor will you ever really know them, so their opinions can't be relevant to your reality!


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## arcticow (Oct 8, 2006)

​Ardie, it's not me, got a real thick hide. It's when they gang other folks...


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## paulty_logic (Jan 15, 2014)

I left for a year because of this behavior, and it has been an ongoing problem for quite some time. It seems like the moderators/admins have been attempting to quarantine it to a few groups like Politics that is set as private and General Chat which not everyone can post to. I think that has helped, but obviously not completely solved the problem.

Articow, Are you seeing this across the board or in specific groups?


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## Convoy (Dec 2, 2012)

might be just a crazy idea but what about teasing the trolls. I have found it actually works since after a time they just leave you alone instead of dealing with you - also alot easier than simply ignoring them.

Side not: It is really fun to tease crazies :grin:


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## crtreedude (Jun 14, 2006)

In all honesty, I just read what people say, whether I like how they are saying it. But I do weigh how much credence I give based on whether the person seems to have a grip on reality.

Sometimes, the best thing, is walk away for a while. I have been gone for a while now because of being too busy and other interests - I was intrigued by something today, who knows if I will hang around. After all, no one is paying me, and I don't need another responsibility.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Do you report a post if you see it? Is it breaking any of the forum's rules?

Have you pm'd the mod or me? There is often more going on behind the scenes than what is seen here.

Such as someone may have almost enough infractions to ban themself from the site.
or someone will not put another on ignore and not rise to the bait.

But, I'd be interested via PM to find out specifics, as it's easy to make a general statement such as this.


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## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

We all have our points where we want to just walk away. For some it's seeing others being ganged up on. For me it's when everything is so ultra Right Wing Conservative that I want to barf. When that starts to happen I stop, look up on the top part of my browser and find where it says www.homesteadingtoday.com I then click on it and type in a different website address. There! No more having to deal with it! Occasionally I come back to see what's going on in the Families forum or to see cute baby goat pics, but I never forget that I am in control of my computer and I don't have to stay here.


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## crtreedude (Jun 14, 2006)

AngieM2 said:


> Have you pm'd the mod or me? _ There is often more going on behind the scenes than what is seen here._


Boy, isn't this the truth! Having been a moderator in some forums, and owner of some others - unless you are a moderator, you have no idea how insane it gets...


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

The moderators need to do a much better job. When the new owners took over there was a great improvement for a short while but that seems to have been discontinued. They do delete those posts that completely break the rules but the ones that are just borderline rude and bullying are left. The rules need to tighten up if there is to actually be civil discourse.


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## paulty_logic (Jan 15, 2014)

crtreedude said:


> Boy, isn't this the truth! Having been a moderator in some forums, and owner of some others - unless you are a moderator, you have no idea how insane it gets...


I don't envy the workload that the moderators probably have to deal with, especially with a forum of this size.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

just dealing with me is a full time job
and FBB, and David from Wisconsin, and tricky grandma, and Gapeach put us over the top oh and the 7th fleet person and a bunch of others. LOL I think the mods are doing as well as can be expected.
and then there is Mt Nevada he is the master pot stirrer. I loves ya all


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

crtreedude said:


> Boy, isn't this the truth! Having been a moderator in some forums, and owner of some others - unless you are a moderator, you have no idea how insane it gets...


It gets insane because the little things are left to slide. I belong to other forums on both homesteading and politics and the name calling and sneering is just not allowed and they do not seem to have any trouble controlling it. On the other political forums the use of derogatory but not obscene terms is just not allowed. And they should not be because they don't advance the discussion - just shuts it down. As the size of the forum increases then so should the number of moderators.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Thank you for your input and observations, but still no reported posts just fussing about the rules being enforce in a manner that a particular poster finds good or bad.

Being disliked half the time, by half the people, and liked by 1/2 the people, 1/2 the time, then the groups changing is a reasonable expectation of being a mod or admin.

We are not going to please everyone all of the time. 

And the thread I'm seeing on another forum is passionate and is being watched but there have been NO reported posts or specific rule breaking that anyone wants to bring up to the mods.

So it must not be that bad, except to those that don't agree.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Unfortunately, the "sneering" is equally expressed by both sides of arguments. Yet the accusations are always about the other side only. Motes and beams. 
Some people also think that every viewpoint must be accepted without debate and they call that being respectful. If that were the point this would not be forum but a list of single statements. Polls are respectful but never evolve.
How can respect be given to an unreasoned opinion? Is pointing out that a statement makes no logic disrespectful? Is reinforcing them the only nice response?
If a person demands only reinforcement, then they best limit their attentions to horoscopes.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

My experience is that it is a waste of time to complain about the rude but not "illegal" posts. Vulgarity seems to be acceptable here.

And yes the sneering is expressed by both sides. How does that make it better or right or excusable?


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## Mike CHS (Apr 3, 2011)

I'm relatively new to the forum and do more reading than posting but I think the mods do a super job. In many cases, the membership themselves do a fair job of ignoring petty posts by those that seem to argue as a hobby.


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## raybait1 (Sep 30, 2006)

> And the thread I'm seeing on another forum is passionate and is being watched but there have been NO reported posts or specific rule breaking that anyone wants to bring up to the mods.


I think I know the thread and all I'll say is I see a pattern of behavior.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

davel745 said:


> just dealing with me is a full time job
> and FBB, and David from Wisconsin, and tricky grandma, and Gapeach put us over the top oh and the 7th fleet person and a bunch of others. LOL I think the mods are doing as well as can be expected.
> and then there is Mt Nevada he is the master pot stirrer. I loves ya all


See, here's a good example, calling Nevada a pot stirrer.

I have NEVER seen Nevada insult or demean anyone and he gets piled on and insulted probably more than any other member of HT, yet he always remains polite.

Having a differing opinion of the majority is not pot stirring, he voices his opinions, is lambasted quite rudely for them and takes it with dignity.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Seems to me like that people give much too credence to the opinions of others. If you don't like how a poster says something just ignore what they say. For Particularly annoying posters there is an Ignore feature.

You control how you take a post.

Having said that I think at times we have all been guilty of firing off a reply before really thinking about it.

And the mods do a fine job IMHO.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

mnn2501 said:


> Seems to me like that people give much too credence to the opinions of others. If you don't like how a poster says something just ignore what they say. For Particularly annoying posters there is an Ignore feature.
> 
> You control how you take a post.
> 
> ...


If I thought before posting, I would never be able to post. Arcticow, I enjoy your posts.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

emdeengee said:


> My experience is that it is a waste of time to complain about the rude but not "illegal" posts. Vulgarity seems to be acceptable here.
> 
> And yes the sneering is expressed by both sides. How does that make it better or right or excusable?


No but the real point is to look in the mirror before looking out the window.
I personally started out being super careful to be super polite but found that leads to being ignored at best and flamed at worse. 
Now I'm fighting the personal battle of avoiding name calling while still defending my points.

Some things I try to steer clear of is religious based arguments. If someone says that something is true because of the religion, that can only be debated from within the religion. 
I am almost at the point of considering that some liberal or conservative people are really members of a church of those names because they seem to argue the same litany of values without variation. Scary.

Some things I find really rude is cross border ragging on another country. So are you going to stop because I find it rude and mean? Another thing that offends me is broad criticism of the other sex- statements that all women or all men do some horrible. Are you going to stop that from going on? 
Dismissing personal concerns as unimportant or even untrue without asking or explaning is offensive. Ignoring a post because it's inconvenient to your own opinion or diverting a thread to your own agenda is rude. Patronizing personal remarks like "lighten up" crab the heck out of me. Not just when addressed to me but if I see them addressed to someone else too.
Of course if your goal is to circumvent difficult to answer posts, the thread will end up going around and around, usually devolved into a series of "oh yeah"s. A war of raspberries. And that is ugly. But unless you are prepared to answer an issue raised by an opponent in an argument, you can not expect that it will just go away because you are annoyed.

And I like arguing- it's the only way to test my own thought and opinions. I don't think that the people who complain about arguing, as if politics was ever anything else, are really as offended by the process as they are about being contradicted and having to think further.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

What am I missing? I am on a couple of other forums and moderator on one, this forum seems to be one of the best moderated and calmest I have seen. Sure there are disagreements, seen them in quite a few parts of this forum. If a particular thread annoys me I just move on.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

I guess I'm not seeing the gangs of bullies. There is a strong conservative slant, sometimes to the point of being stereotypical, but I would expect that since the hardworking country type of folks strongly tend to conservative values. 

When I see a post here that evokes an emotional response in me, I'll usually step back and try to figure out what it is that is causing my response. If it is a person using language that seems personal or inflammatory then I may use a different strategy than I might for someone who is confused or parroting of a media mavin without thinking it through. 

If I hold a point of view strongly, such as thinking that kids _really_ need to be exposed to at least some farm life and life and death on a farm before age ten, I'll defend it strongly. However, I know there will be others who disagree, and the only thing I can do then is to use words that will make them think. I can't change anyone's opinion, only they can, and even small shifts in opinion take time and reflection.

If I could think of a single person on the forum who intentionally set out to do people on the forum harm, I might see more teeth in the original rant.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

where I want to said:


> No but the real point is to look in the mirror before looking out the window.
> I personally started out being super careful to be super polite but found that leads to being ignored at best and flamed at worse.
> Now I'm fighting the personal battle of avoiding name calling while still defending my points.
> 
> ...


 
Very interesting reading. Do YOU own a mirror lol!

I have no objection to discussion or argument on any subject including religion, politics and other countries. All opinions are interesting. I just find the vulgarity used to be unacceptable. And completely unnecessary. Libertards, Feminazis, Repuglicants, Democraps and other similar words seems to be completely acceptable here.


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## arcticow (Oct 8, 2006)

I enjoy reading all of you who posted here. I know how to use the ignore button, and have from time to time. Angie, you will get a PM when I have time later. I want to be very specific when I report something or someone. Anyone can cross a line once in a great while, including me. Some folks I had under Ignore for a while I now enjoy reading. And for Nevada's friends, I like to read what he says, even tho it makes my brain hurt sometimes. He ain't the problem. I can disagree with you all day long, and still be OK if it seems that your argument is reasoned and presented with courtesy. Blessings on the mods, it's like being a school bus driver... Angie is a saint or her head would explode some days...


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

:sing:


> Angie is a saint or her head would explode some days...


:sing:

Obviously you've not seen though the computer screen some days :dance:


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## arcticow (Oct 8, 2006)

AngieM2 said:


> :sing::sing:
> 
> Obviously you've not seen though the computer screen some days :dance:


You do hide it well, though, ma'am...:thumb:


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

I think that it&#8217;s important to realize that many of the more vehement posting personalities on this forum are actually drama majors from Northwestern University working on their course studies in performance art (Well, except for the one who is actually the work of a graduate studies academic planning committee from Creighton (but that&#8217;s really too complicated to go into)).

Posting activity tends to pick up around the end of the semester and midterms and tends to drop off during the summer recess.

Some of my favorite old-time posters are no longer in the forum because they graduated and have to spend most of their time trying to earn a living at various dinner theaters or as mimes on the sidewalks or in parks in major cities.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I'm going to let you all in on a secret.

Some people get infractions and banned when they don't think mods are doing something fast enough or to their liking. They may not see the PM's in the background asking someone to edit a post, rather than get infracted; or someone with a style that 10% of the time causes infractions but 90% of the time is a smart and excellent member.

I have some of the banned members as ones that I wish would have just not posted that last absolutely insulting post, specific and cannot be over looked, and they are gone.

Some of the smartest, most knowledgeable have little patience with the perceived stupid to them questions and it all comes apart. It is very sad.

There are some banned people I really miss seeing posting and some of them I did the final deletion infracting that caused it to go over the ban level. I had to do it, even if I liked them in most cases. And I have to not infract some I don't care so much for unless I can put another member's name in the action and I'd still do it.

It's not as fun or nice as some would think. I would ask, even if you don't agree with a mod or me, give us time to work things out. Or at least don't do something dumb and rule breaking and get infraction points yourself.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

emdeengee said:


> Very interesting reading. Do YOU own a mirror lol!
> 
> I have no objection to discussion or argument on any subject including religion, politics and other countries. All opinions are interesting. I just find the vulgarity used to be unacceptable. And completely unnecessary. Libertards, Feminazis, Repuglicants, Democraps and other similar words seems to be completely acceptable here.


Yes, I find that offensive too. And yes, I look a lot in the mirror. If you don't find the idea that I hold back a lot scary, you should. But there is a hard balance to find between the desire to not allow weak thinking to rule an argument and not to insult someone incapable of better.
Sometimes name calling is just because someone is frustrated but inarticulate. Being inarticulate does not mean wrong.


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## arcticow (Oct 8, 2006)

where I want to said:


> Yes, I find that offensive too. And yes, I look a lot in the mirror. If you don't find the idea that I hold back a lot scary, you should. But there is a hard balance to find between the desire to not allow weak thinking to rule an argument and not to insult someone incapable of better.
> Sometimes name calling is just because someone is frustrated but inarticulate. Being inarticulate does not mean wrong.


Which comes down to the playground rule... If you can't use your words don't hit. If all you can do is call names, take a short breather and THINK...


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

where I want to said:


> Yes, I find that offensive too. And yes, I look a lot in the mirror. If you don't find the idea that I hold back a lot scary, you should. But there is a hard balance to find between the desire to not allow weak thinking to rule an argument and not to insult someone incapable of better.
> Sometimes name calling is just because someone is frustrated but inarticulate. Being inarticulate does not mean wrong.


I would not hold back. It is rather dishonest if you do. And anyone's opinions don't scare me at all. If you have something to say then say it - just in a courteous manner. Why would anyone find it necessary to INSULT someone because they think differently? An adult can and will control themselves. Using insults does not make you inarticulate. It makes you rude. Your meaning is articulate. Insults can be very expressive and eloquent but in the end just juvenile.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

And an insult can be couched in elegant words.


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## Twobottom (Sep 29, 2013)

I have seen this whole scenario play out on many sites. Some people come on strong, maybe a little rude, and others complain about bullying and threaten to leave the site. It usually goes down one of two ways...One, the moderators/owners 'crackdown' and decide to put a stop to this "bullying". Pretty soon nobody can have a spirited debate without being penalized. Debates stop and the entire purpose of the site/section/thread is moot. Some people stop visiting the site.

Or the managers of the site simply accept that people sometimes disagree in ways that offend others, this is the nature of debate on a website. They recommend using the "ignore" button on any posters that others may feel offended by. Site remains somewhat inflammatory. Some people stop visiting the site.

I have never seen a middle ground reached. And ALL moderators being human beings, always favor certain posters who they have a longer relationship with or who may reflect their own views. Because of this, total even handedness is impossible and the more they try to moderate the posters, the worse it gets.

When you enter a site where people are free to voice their opinions, you agree to be exposed to humanity...the good, the bad, and the ugly. You have the power, via the ignore function, to eliminate ANY poster that offends you. Therefore, logically, you have absolutely no right complain about the same group of people being offensive, IMO.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

AngieM2 said:


> And an insult can be couched in elegant words.


Or nasty and vulgar ones. Both are still insults. We have discussed this many times on this forum but nothing changes. Some of the most rabid insulters are just left to run free. And of course this stultifies any real discussion.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

arcticow said:


> Which comes down to the playground rule... If you can't use your words don't hit. If all you can do is call names, take a short breather and THINK...


Wise words if the playground is a hockey arena!


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## arcticow (Oct 8, 2006)

As was stated earlier, offending me is very difficult. Badgering someone else in a public forum makes me much less reticent to call someone out, to hold them accountable for the way they deal with others. I won't try to police thought, even when one's idea of "spirited debate" amounts to shouting down those with whom they disagree. I WILL take someone else's back when I see them browbeaten! Sorry, that's my idea of spirited fairness.


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## arcticow (Oct 8, 2006)

bowdonkey said:


> Wise words if the playground is a hockey arena!


Never, EVER mistake meekness and fairness for weakness...


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## Twobottom (Sep 29, 2013)

arcticow said:


> As was stated earlier, offending me is very difficult. Badgering someone else in a public forum makes me much less reticent to call someone out, to hold them accountable for the way they deal with others. I won't try to police thought, even when one's idea of "spirited debate" amounts to shouting down those with whom they disagree. I WILL take someone else's back when I see them browbeaten! Sorry, that's my idea of spirited fairness.


Unless I'm mistaken every member has the ability to use the ignore function. Why not let each member decide how and when to deal with other posters? Let's let people decide for themselves when they are offended.

As far as 'shouting down those with whom they disagree' you'll have to explain to me how that is possible on an online forum. But I will also sometimes jump in when the odds are against someone, thats just my instinct sometimes


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## Twobottom (Sep 29, 2013)

I think alot of people also get the idea that they are "losing" an argument if more people disagree with them. Its all perception.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

arcticow said:


> ​Ardie, it's not me, got a real thick hide. It's when they gang other folks...


Well, this is only my opinion. If someone is being ganged up on, they have a choice! They can sit there and continue to being ganged up one OR they can walk away! Personally, I don't feel that that nonsense is worth my time. It's pretty difficult to gang up on someone who turns their back on that juvenile behavior.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

AngieM2 said:


> And an insult can be couched in elegant words.


Yes, and it's pretty difficult to insult someone who doesn't respect you.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

:icecream: I think Spring better get here soon before we.....


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

emdeengee said:


> I would not hold back. It is rather dishonest if you do. And anyone's opinions don't scare me at all. If you have something to say then say it - just in a courteous manner. Why would anyone find it necessary to INSULT someone because they think differently? An adult can and will control themselves. Using insults does not make you inarticulate. It makes you rude. Your meaning is articulate. Insults can be very expressive and eloquent but in the end just juvenile.


Because some don't have the words. I agree with you about distorting names to convey contempt but there are plenty who don't agree. 
If it's important they stop, then you need to pursue the issue yourself. The moderators, who may agree with you, can not until it reaches levels of obscenity.
I do that on some things, like what I consider to be insults to my country by foreigners and sometimes citizens. Comments on policy is fine, wholesale pointless insults are not.
I am the same with my state. California can become quite a whipping boy. Some is certainly deserved but a fair amount is just ignorant parroting of biased media people. And a lack of knowledge. So I will get personal about it. After all it's my home and I love much more of it than I dislike. Sometimes it's a close call.
How can you say holding back is wrong at the same time you advocate the monitors doing it for you according to you desires? Frankly sometimes and some people need to be passed, either because they are slow or they simply won't come up to speed. Doesn't mean I have to flip them the finger as I pass. Doesn't mean I have to react if they flip me off either.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

where I want to said:


> Because some don't have the words. I agree with you about distorting names to convey contempt but there are plenty who don't agree.
> If it's important they stop, then you need to pursue the issue yourself. The moderators, who may agree with you, can not until it reaches levels of obscenity.
> I do that on some things, like what I consider to be insults to my country by foreigners and sometimes citizens. Comments on policy is fine, wholesale pointless insults are not.
> I am the same with my state. California can become quite a whipping boy. Some is certainly deserved but a fair amount is just ignorant parroting of biased media people. And a lack of knowledge. So I will get personal about it. After all it's my home and I love much more of it than I dislike. Sometimes it's a close call.
> How can you say holding back is wrong at the same time you advocate the monitors doing it for you according to you desires? Frankly sometimes and some people need to be passed, either because they are slow or they simply won't come up to speed. Doesn't mean I have to flip them the finger as I pass. Doesn't mean I have to react if they flip me off either.


If you have something to say then say it. Holding back your opinion is not necessary. It can always be expressed respectfully. Holding back a vulgar tongue and not being offensive and insulting in your reply is the only holding back that I advocate. And supervising that is the monitors job.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

emdeengee said:


> If you have something to say then say it. Holding back your opinion is not necessary. It can always be expressed respectfully. Holding back a vulgar tongue and not being offensive and insulting in your reply is the only holding back that I advocate. And supervising that is the monitors job.


Really? How is it possible to say to someone that their statement is illogical, or they are a racist or they are not experiencing what they say they are without the very idea being insulting?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Some people are just too thin skinned to be posting on topics they know will stir up disagreement. I've had some heated disagreements on here, mainly in politics, over the years but I never felt insulted by any of the responses nor did I ever purposefully insult anyone else. If someone posts a lie as fact, is there any other way to respond than to call it a lie? That isn't insulting anyone. Calling it an untruth might be more PC but it means the same thing. I don't use the word untruth in my daily life and see no reason to keep a separate vocabulary for the internet. I really haven't seen insulting on the other forums but I don't read them all.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Tiempo said:


> See, here's a good example, calling Nevada a pot stirrer.
> 
> I have NEVER seen Nevada insult or demean anyone and he gets piled on and insulted probably more than any other member of HT, yet he always remains polite.
> 
> Having a differing opinion of the majority is not pot stirring, he voices his opinions, is lambasted quite rudely for them and takes it with dignity.


I am only picking on Nevada he has done wondrous things in the past with his friend and he has given me very good advise, but his liberal views are hard for some of us to accept, but I would defend to the death his rite say what he wants.


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## raybait1 (Sep 30, 2006)

> If someone posts a lie as fact


This happens sometimes to be sure. It also happens that people can mistake their own opinion for truth. Perspective can be a funny thing. How many things discussed here can be put into cold hard true or false?


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## DAVID In Wisconsin (Dec 3, 2002)

davel745 said:


> just dealing with me is a full time job
> and FBB, and David from Wisconsin, and tricky grandma, and Gapeach put us over the top oh and the 7th fleet person and a bunch of others. LOL I think the mods are doing as well as can be expected.
> and then there is Mt Nevada he is the master pot stirrer. I loves ya all


Hey I am innocent! Me and tricky were in church praying for Nevada when whatever happened happened. And gapeach and 7th and a few others were in a bar around the corner having drinks. We are each others alibis! It's probably Bush's fault...


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## sand flea (Sep 1, 2013)

Haha :ashamed:

I just posted something similar on another forum, as the OP. I've noticed that there is an uptick in posts/posters in general, that seem intent on simply arguing - and coming up a winner/loser - in discussions instead of simply "talking" - and taking in all the posts as people's opinions and perspectives. 

Some posters seem to think the rules of debate apply to talking online; others that those of us who "just talk" must be able to provide them links to some kind of validating "proof" for everything we say... as if we're journalists or teachers or librarians to help them learn more about a topic. Or they feel justified to criticize every single opinion that doesn't fit their world-view and beliefs.

It is all presented with a demanding, negative, and accusing tone... and it's so discouraging when we should be trying to help each other out and share what we know/believe. Since when did civil discourse include this kind of impudent, demanding, inquisition?? 

Did I not get the memo?

It's not just here; the mods do pretty good here and on the other sites I frequent. There was the guy I saw (elsewhere) who got banned the same day he joined. But I'm more & more avoiding those sites that are unmoderated for just this reason. We are going to NEED each other going forward, so a word to the wise: stop alienating people who might be able to help you later on.


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## arcticow (Oct 8, 2006)

BIG like to the above...


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

When I was fairly young, I discovered that, if I was planning to toot in the bathtub to make noises to entertain myself, it was best not to eat onions earlier in the day.

I try to continue to live by that as a general rule.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Oggie said:


> When I was fairly young, I discovered that, if I was planning to toot in the bathtub to make noises to entertain myself, it was best not to eat onions earlier in the day.
> 
> I try to continue to live by that as a general rule.


Is that something like I determined rather quickly not to toot and drive my electric scooter backward??


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

poppy said:


> Some people are just too thin skinned to be posting on topics they know will stir up disagreement. I've had some heated disagreements on here, mainly in politics, over the years but I never felt insulted by any of the responses nor did I ever purposefully insult anyone else. If someone posts a lie as fact, is there any other way to respond than to call it a lie? That isn't insulting anyone. Calling it an untruth might be more PC but it means the same thing. I don't use the word untruth in my daily life and see no reason to keep a separate vocabulary for the internet. I really haven't seen insulting on the other forums but I don't read them all.


Sometimes (often) people post something that is indeed a lie, but it's something that they've read on the internet that they believe to be true.

I think pointing out that it's a lie is fine but calling the person that posted it a liar is not.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Tiempo said:


> Sometimes (often) people post something that is indeed a lie, but it's something that they've read on the internet that they believe to be true.
> 
> I think pointing out that it's a lie is fine but calling the person that posted it a liar is not.


I'm well aware people make mistakes and I have posted some things i got online only to find out were not true. I'm not talking about that. Some people are intent on posting lies that have been refuted over and over.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Oggie said:


> When I was fairly young, I discovered that, if I was planning to toot in the bathtub to make noises to entertain myself, it was best not to eat onions earlier in the day.
> 
> I try to continue to live by that as a general rule.


You see the glass half empty, I see it half full. I brought a mason jar to the tub (TRUE story) inverted it and captured those little fragrant fellows and brought them to school. I'd probably be considered a terrorist these days.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

AngieM2 said:


> I'm going to let you all in on a secret.
> 
> Some people get infractions and banned when they don't think mods are doing something fast enough or to their liking. They may not see the PM's in the background asking someone to edit a post, rather than get infracted; or someone with a style that 10% of the time causes infractions but 90% of the time is a smart and excellent member.


What are these infractions I keep hearing about? Do I have any? If not, is there an envelope I need to push? Do I have some wiggle room in my ledger? Can I kick it up a notch? Gaaaahhhh. Now I don't think my on-line persona is keeping up with my real-life one.

Regarding the 'ignore' button...if you ignore anyone here, you are really missing out on some good stuff...loser.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

As a child I remember being taught "sticks and stones may break your bones but words can never hurt you", yet when this beast called internet became the social activity of choice for so many , I notice folks complaining of the pain caused by words typed as text of opinion in a medium that most folks generally find has very little actual impact on their real world day to day activities when they step away from it provided they don't bare all before the beast called internet.

As far as how we let the arm of moderation to reach , we strive to balance between the acceptable social levels of discord in discussion , avoidance of over stifling posters. preventing copyright violations and preserving the site appeal for current participants and new arrivals alike in much the way lifeguards and staff oversee a swimming pool or amusement park.

As moderators we are the moderate buffer between the opposing views however we cannot simply eliminate one view or the other. We can only try to maintain the balance of discussions within the site civility boundaries.


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

I have been on this site for years.
The arguments here are nothing compared to a Baptist site I visit now and then.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Why so many parties need alcohol to be enjoyable is that chitchat is really really, really boring.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HT has members from several countries and various walks of life. Some members speak eloquently and others are a bit rough around the edges. We try to consider regional slang, delivery, the history of the poster in question and the level of passion of specific topics. 

We might not get it right all the time but we do consult with each other and try to be fair. We are also rely on our members. If you see something specific that you think we haven't, please report it and if you have concerns, send us a pm but please make sure you contact a mod from the related forum.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

sand flea said:


> Haha :ashamed:
> 
> I just posted something similar on another forum, as the OP. I've noticed that there is an uptick in posts/posters in general, that seem intent on simply arguing - and coming up a winner/loser - in discussions instead of simply "talking" - and taking in all the posts as people's opinions and perspectives.
> 
> ...


I too have noticed that the ones who are hurtful and have other problems don't stay around to long.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

This forum used to be informative and entertaining, and people would actually discuss original thoughts and ideas, although in the past few years there has been an influx of new members who apparently think this is a place to endlessly 'copy and paste' partisan opinion pieces, usually followed by one sentence of original thought. It almost feels like we're being spammed. Where has DeaconJim been??? Even though I rarely agreed with him, at least his opinion pieces were original.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

part of what you are seeing Greg is that we opened GC to anyone, not just to those that have been here for 30 days and posted elsewhere up to about 30 or 50 posts in a good manner.

That's the biggest change to GC.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Twobottom said:


> Unless I'm mistaken every member has the ability to use the ignore function. Why not let each member decide how and when to deal with other posters? Let's let people decide for themselves when they are offended.
> 
> As far as 'shouting down those with whom they disagree' you'll have to explain to me how that is possible on an online forum. But I will also sometimes jump in when the odds are against someone, thats just my instinct sometimes


then no one would talk to me they need to delete the ignore function


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## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

Awnry Abe said:


> Regarding the 'ignore' button...if you ignore anyone here, you are really missing out on some good stuff...loser.


I don't post here much, but read most of what is posted and have done so for a long time now. I have put five posters on "ignore" at one time or another. Of those two have been banned, one has become inactive and one I took off "ignore" (that poster is on DOUBLE SECRET probation - we'll see how it goes).

I never ignored a poster just for being offensive or for contrary principles. But I read here for information, and to hear new points of view, so for me the worst combination is offensive posters who also are tedious - cut/paste artists and mantra chanters. Those folks you can ignore without missing any "good stuff."

One remarkable thing is to read posts from GC and Politics regulars in other forums. In a lot of cases I grit my teeth to read what they post here, only to see them being reasonable, and even kindly, in Singletree or Homesteading Families. That supports my view that most people here are good folks and care about others, but that the atmosphere in the contentious forums tends to present us as something we really are not.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Ardie/WI said:


> Is that something like I determined rather quickly not to toot and drive my electric scooter backward??


I say often while driving in close proximity to potential fender benders, and while parallel parking, "small speed, small dent." 

Works when talking too.

It is good to toot when backing a scooter to alert people of your presence. Sometimes, when I toot in the isle at the grocery store, without a cart, it is offensive to even myself and when I try to walk away to separate myself from the scene of the tooting that the evidence follows me, and I end up going further than intended. 

When a cowboy finds himself in a hole, he should stop digging and toot only if absolutely necessary and never when upwind of the chuck wagon.

This is all minutely relevant or perhaps not.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Scott SW Ohio said:


> I don't post here much, but read most of what is posted and have done so for a long time now. I have put five posters on "ignore" at one time or another. Of those two have been banned, one has become inactive and one I took off "ignore" (that poster is on DOUBLE SECRET probation - we'll see how it goes).
> 
> I never ignored a poster just for being offensive or for contrary principles. But I read here for information, and to hear new points of view, so for me the worst combination is offensive posters who also are tedious - cut/paste artists and mantra chanters. Those folks you can ignore without missing any "good stuff."
> 
> ...


I'm friendly up in Gardening!:gaptooth: I agree though, different forums have different atmospheres. I like that, by the way.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Scott SW Ohio said:


> I don't post here much, but read most of what is posted and have done so for a long time now. I have put five posters on "ignore" at one time or another. Of those two have been banned, one has become inactive and one I took off "ignore" (that poster is on DOUBLE SECRET probation - we'll see how it goes).
> 
> I never ignored a poster just for being offensive or for contrary principles. But I read here for information, and to hear new points of view, so for me the worst combination is offensive posters who also are tedious - cut/paste artists and mantra chanters. Those folks you can ignore without missing any "good stuff."
> 
> One remarkable thing is to read posts from GC and Politics regulars in other forums. In a lot of cases I grit my teeth to read what they post here, only to see them being reasonable, and even kindly, in Singletree or Homesteading Families. That supports my view that most people here are good folks and care about others, but that the atmosphere in the contentious forums tends to present us as something we really are not.


The ppl who are on my "ignore" list are the same ones who tried to follow me around the Internet acting like cretins.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

davel745 said:


> then no one would talk to me they need to delete the ignore function


I have myself on ignore most of the time.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Bret said:


> I say often while driving in close proximity to potential fender benders, and while parallel parking, "small speed, small dent."
> 
> Works when talking too.
> 
> ...


Iffen I need to "toot" in a store, I try to find an aisle that's empty and turn the speed on HIGH!!!


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

Ardie/WI said:


> Iffen I need to "toot" in a store, I try to find an aisle that's empty and turn the speed on HIGH!!!



Well that explains it!! Went down the canned goods aisle and a funny aroma made my eyes start watering.. :shocked:


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Ardie/WI said:


> Iffen I need to "toot" in a store, I try to find an aisle that's empty and turn the speed on HIGH!!!


Ya know that gives me an idea. Next time I'm in a slow moving line in Wallyworld. Which is everytime I'm there, I'm going to let one rip, maybe that will get things moving along a little quicker.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Ardie/WI said:


> Iffen I need to "toot" in a store, I try to find an aisle that's empty and turn the speed on HIGH!!!


People come out of nowhere.  It must be one of the laws of the universe.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Ambereyes said:


> Well that explains it!! Went down the canned goods aisle and a funny aroma made my eyes start watering.. :shocked:


Yup! That was me! :nanner:


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

AngieM2 said:


> part of what you are seeing Greg is that we opened GC to anyone, not just to those that have been here for 30 days and posted elsewhere up to about 30 or 50 posts in a good manner.
> 
> That's the biggest change to GC.


 That was a good policy. It weeded out those whose main interest was partisan politics, or at least delayed them getting into GC until they proved they could 'get along with others'. Showing an interest in legitimate homesteading activities used to a prerequisite to posting in GC. Meh, whatever. If some folks want a discussion board to be an echo chamber, then so be it.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Ardie/WI said:


> Yup! That was me! :nanner:


Thanks for drawing the fire.


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

Well I must say that first I was delighted to find this forum. .though I was looking for another one. Then I was shocked at how quickbit seemed that


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

Ohhh I hate this phone. Now where was I? Oh yes...saying that I have learned to take it all with a grain of salt quite quickly. I love knowing this diversity exists.... It has given my mind some exercise.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Haven't been here long but it is a great forum. Seems like there is so much info available and folks willing to help out.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

When you have this many people inter-acting, and when the topics can be so "hot button", I think it's a wonder it isn't more contentious and combative. I think this site does a good job of setting the tone and moderating. 

It's like a somewhat dysfunctional family. Maybe so'nso goes on a rant at the drop of a hat, but over time you see their heart is in the right place, they just have a short fuse. They get over it quick too, and don't hold a grudge, it's all good. Someone else is fixated on a certain agenda or topic, they are a one trick pony, period. You can beat 'em with a stick all day long, they simply can't learn a new trick. Some people are the Gumby's of the world - they bend one way, then the other. And we ALL have good days and bad days where sometimes we can disagree with respect, versus just banging out something snarky or taking that cheap shot.


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

I just recently joined a forum where the owner is requiring everyone to talk nice. It's like friggin Pre-K or something. No arguing allowed. It's like being in Stepford or Pleasantville. It's totally fake.
I hope this place doesn't turn into that. I like real people. Well, some of them.


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## Glade Runner (Aug 1, 2013)

Very rarely do I find someone posting that I just can't tolerate. When I do, the ignore function works real well. 

Usually these kinds of discussions come down to whose ox was gored. Truth is, most people's ox gets gored occasionally so it's best just to live with it.


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

A big hattip :cowboy:to all the moderators at HT for all the hard work they do to keep this site running as well as it does. (If'n I were a mod here, I would have locked some of y'all up and fed you fish head soup and bones by now  )

There are tons of people of all types that hang out here and sometimes, I imagine moderators must feel it's a lot like herding cats...lol. 




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