# Sick and tired of society



## BaconandBakin (Jul 13, 2014)

For some time now I have felt very fed up with society as a whole, everything from the shallow beliefs pushed by the entertainment industry to politicians acting like spoiled little children. But I honestly felt that the majority of people out there were still decent human beings, after a few recent events, I am not so sure anymore.

First thing that about made me tip out of my chair was the ordeal with the NFL player that punched and knocked out his then fiancee. I figured anyone with the ability to type could see it was plain that he was way out of line and should not only be banned from football but given a life sentence. Well, I was wrong there...comments on this range from "she had it coming" and "it was self defense" to "women want equal rights, she hit him, he hit back, that's equal rights". Holy crap! Are you people serious?!?! Honestly could not believe the amount of comments in these directions.

Second thing that I find appalling is the reactions to the new song "All about that bass". If you haven't heard the song, it is about being happy with your body no matter what and having a little extra is not the end of the world. I figure, well finally, a song that goes against this society push to make anyone who is not a stick figure feel gross. I figured people can see and understand that and I was wrong again. The majority of comments talk about how this is promoting obesity and some comments said things like "everyone knows skinny people are models, not big people." The ignorance and shallow self centeredness is truly sickening.

UGH! and GRRRRR! Alright, theres my rant...What grinds your gears with society these days?


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## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

&#8220;I had three chairs in my house; one for solitude, two for friendship, three for society.&#8221;


&#8213; Henry David Thoreau, Walden

I think that is why my world is small.
So much goes on that I don't understand.


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## MoonShadows (Jan 11, 2014)

As a society, we are terminal.


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## MOSSYNUT (Aug 8, 2014)

There seems to be a sense of entitlement by a lot of people that I find disgusting. 

As far as the football player I don't know much about that. But my mom always told me if a woman puts her self in a man's place to treat her like a man :hammer: but then again that heifer was crazy. Luckily that's one position I've never been in with a woman:ashamed:


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

I feel fine about society. Yes, there are bad people out there. There always have been, and there always will be. BUT, there are WAY more good people out there than bad people. 

You have to remember, the news and media only want to report on what will get them ratings...murders, theft, abuse, etc. For every 20 bad stories they report, they *might* report 1 good one. 

My advice? Stop watching the news. Stop reading articles about bad things that happen. And most importantly, DON'T read those comments! People troll the comments just trying to get others upset. Don't waste your time on those trolls. 

So, my advice would be to focus on the positive, not the negative.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Women, just like many other groups, want to be equal - but only on their terms.

If this women weighed 260 pounds and she punched and dropped her 110# pipsqueak husband, would there be the outrage seen today?

Of course not. It's just blood sport.

Society has always had plenty of problems, in my lifetime. there are just more and different today.

I voted "good" LOL meaning it could be worse.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Maybe the downfall of society will really be driven by the people who wallow in the negative, unable to see and unwilling to seek the good that goes on every day.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Tiempo said:


> Maybe the downfall of society will really be driven by the people who wallow in the negative, unable to see and unwilling to seek the good that goes on every day.


Or perhaps society's demise is observed daily by many people. Many of us remember when you could let your kids out to play all day without wondering if they will come home at night. We also remember when the lunch ladies at school made sure every kid got plenty to eat and yet we didn't have many fat kids. Now the lunch lady will cut off your kid's lunch if his lunch bill gets behind 20 bucks while the kids on the dole can eat every day with no problem. Society has declined over the years. Personal responsibility is gone and has been replaced by a government that promises to protect you from the dangers of lawn darts and eating the wrong foods. It has made us weak as a nation. We can't even decide whether or not to kill our enemies that want to kill us.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Absolutely nothing about society grinds my gears. I pay little to no attention to the news media except for local news. Other than that, it is just fodder being thrown out to raise ratings


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

poppy said:


> Or perhaps society's demise is observed daily by many people. Many of us remember when you could let your kids out to play all day without wondering if they will come home at night. We also remember when the lunch ladies at school made sure every kid got plenty to eat and yet we didn't have many fat kids. Now the lunch lady will cut off your kid's lunch if his lunch bill gets behind 20 bucks while the kids on the dole can eat every day with no problem. Society has declined over the years. Personal responsibility is gone and has been replaced by a government that promises to protect you from the dangers of lawn darts and eating the wrong foods. It has made us weak as a nation. We can't even decide whether or not to kill our enemies that want to kill us.


When my gran was young the kids who didn't have lunch starved, or went to the work house or went to work down t' pit or mill.

Ah, the good old days.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

MDKatie said:


> So, my advice would be to focus on the positive, not the negative.


and dont mess with mr. inbetween.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

I feel as well about society today as I ever have simply because society in this country is today as it has been since its inception. A mixture of subcultures existing together to form the whole with different subcultures taking prominence in the public eye at intervals in our history.

Regardless which subculture took prominence during my life, whichever one I felt aligned with still existed and showed viable strength from my perspective . Of course as most I changed the subculture with which O felt most aligned with at the various stages of my life as I matured.

What actually keeps this nation strong are all of its weak subcultures swirling within their own social orbits against one another with the exception of when they polarize together for brief periods in reference to our nations existence to face challenges from outside the quagmire of social interaction we call this global trash heap of a nation that so many native born and castaways from other cultures abroad find their life potential in , having pride and value in what it has to offer as we all strive to nurture what we view as our promised land from within our chosen subculture.

How many other places in the world can someone "travel around the globe" by spending a few hours or at most a few days traversing across a city or maybe a state or two?


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

Recently an incident occurred and I have heard local local griping enough that irks me.

Society is what WE make it.
You do not like what a local group is doing to your town? Then band together and STOP it.

Here folks gripe about the "oil fields". They blame any crime it seems on the field workers. 

It is NOT the field workers, it is the riff raff that follows them from place to place.
So the people need to stand together and STOP it. Instead they just want to whine about it and let our city run into the ground. 

Our society as a country is the same way. If we do not like where we are heading we need to DO something about it, in our own areas then on a bigger scale. Just bemoaning it will do no good it will just raise ones blood pressure.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I suspect that if you watch all the garbage on the TV you will become super negative.

The stuff I see when out and about, I can just shake my head and hope that something will wake up those bone-heads.

Had to laugh when talking with a very friendly door greater at a Meijer's, He was always laughing at the bone-heads who walk into the closed doors because they are totally distracted by the electronic gadget in their hands......


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## badlander (Jun 7, 2009)

Ignoring any problem will not make it go away. It will inevitably make it worse if not addressed and corrected. If you ignore a leak in your roof sooner or later your roof will cave in. Same with society. You cannot ignore all the news. Our country and society is being de-religioned. All the things that our country/society was founded on are being overwritten and the Constitution is being pushed to the background as being obsolete. Progressive is not a good word in our household. It just leaves those in power to feed off of the average citizen. What is everyone's opinion going to be when they re-write the the Pledge of Allegiance and permanently take out the line "One Nation Under God" Because it offends non-Christian citizens. Come on people in Government, somebody grow a pair-just one pair and say enough is enough.

I don't give a fat rat's backside about NFL football. Watching a modern day gladiator match is not my cup of tea. I have a husband, pets, house and farm to take care of for it to matter. But if any man, who outweighs a woman by 120 pounds and is built like a brick out house beats on a woman, or for that matter a woman beats on a man, the problem can be dealt with easily. Put them in prison with inmates who are bigger and tougher than they are. Problem solved by the prison community. 

Any time the press spends a lot of time on a story like this, or dedicates a news report to the death of a Hollywood star, they are trying to draw your attention away from real problems like somebody dangling something sparkley in front of a baby and people fall for it just because they want to ignore the real problems that are happening all over our world.

Over the weekend we went back to IL to work on the house we are selling there and in talking to a friend she told us that she was now homeschooling her youngest child who is now in HS. Reason? 64% of the school is on welfare and are ambition-less. They are also the type of kids she does not want her daughter to associate with. Her words, not mine. She is not ignoring the problem. You cannot force people to be ambitious. Nor can you pry them off of the government's sugar tit once they latch onto it. She dealt with the problem by pulling her child from an environment that she did not approve of. The school is now without the gov. subsidies that child was earning for them just by being in a public school. IF enough people do that they will start to listen. She is addressing the problem in a positive manner, not ignoring it.

Ignore the problem, ignore the news? Be an uninformed voter and citizen, go ahead, that's what got this country in the mess it is in to start with. If you are happy with your head in the sand, then more power to you. It is just not the way I intend to live my life.

Yes, there is a lot of good happening out there and I usually read about it on The Blaze. There is also a lot of evil coming to the surface like oil on water. Time to start skimming it off IMHO.

Sometimes I really worry about people...............

Nope, sorry, I'm supposed to ignore the complacent attitude and smile a lot. Yes I am being sarcastic and cynical. But that's just the way I am.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

BaconandBakin said:


> First thing that about made me tip out of my chair was the ordeal with the NFL player that punched and knocked out his then fiancee. I figured anyone with the ability to type could see it was plain that he was way out of line and should not only be banned from football but given a life sentence. Well, I was wrong there...comments on this range from "she had it coming" and "it was self defense" to "women want equal rights, she hit him, he hit back, that's equal rights". Holy crap! Are you people serious?!?! Honestly could not believe the amount of comments in these directions.


Haven't followed the NFL stuff but I can tell you this anyone, ANYONE who hits me in anger can fully expect to be hit back. Not having a Y chromosome doesn't give you a free pass to assault me.




BaconandBakin said:


> Second thing that I find appalling is the reactions to the new song "All about that bass". If you haven't heard the song, it is about being happy with your body no matter what and having a little extra is not the end of the world. I figure, well finally, a song that goes against this society push to make anyone who is not a stick figure feel gross. I figured people can see and understand that and I was wrong again. The majority of comments talk about how this is promoting obesity and some comments said things like "everyone knows skinny people are models, not big people." The ignorance and shallow self centeredness is truly sickening.


You are fighting against more than society here, you are fighting human nature. In all human societies people are more attracted to skinny than fat.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Warning signs of a declining civilization: They include "too many lawyers, family decay, high taxes, decline in rational thinking, entertainers and high-paid athletes mistaken for important leaders of public opinion, strikes by public officials, peer-group promotion in public schools, declining literacy, and, last but not least, dirty public restrooms (which is a sign of declining courtesy and polite consideration for others).

Robert A Heinlein


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

Our society has gone down hill when people thought they knew more than God. When Adam and Eve more or less flipped their metaphoric middle finger at God and said we can know what's good and evil ourselves and don't need you to tell us, that's when it started to go down hill. When societies tried to follow what God has said (knowingly or unknowingly) they have prospered, when they have rejected and have tried to abolish God, they have crumbled. I've said before, the reason we have evil leaders is because that is what we collectively deserve. As every empire before us has collapsed, it's now our turn.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

What is this "society" y'all are talking about? I see a bunch of people with wildly different development and wildly different goals struggling to interact with each other. I've seen "societies" of cattle in a field that were more cohesive.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

This attitude is largely political. There is a shift to the left, and the people on the right don't like it. This is the expected result of changing demographics in this country. But that's one of the problems with having government by the people; the majority of people might not think like you.

And this is only the beginning. This is going to be a hard pill for conservatives to swallow, but more movement to the left is what our future holds.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Im 57 when I was a child if your family was having a problem, be it paying property taxes, buying groceries, fixing you broken car what ever your family and neighbors would help you. When my parents born in the 1930's depression times parents needed help people helped in what ever way they could. They bunched up people to one bedroom to make room to take people, family or neighbors in when they lost every thing, they pooled their resources to get past the tough times. I grew up hearing about fresh meat being delivered every few days (during the depression) all cleaned and wrapped in brown paper. No one knew who brought the meat. Until my fathers funeral when a very old man told us he was the meat man, he gathered road kill and delivered it to family's he knew needed help. My grandfather was a railroad man during the depression (one of few who had a job) he ran from Baltimore to Pa every day. His family had a farm near the tracks in Mt. Wolf Pa. His family would met the train with what every they could gather and share. The point is people use to help and take care of each other. Not any more. I have needed help in the past few years and I could not find any. I had and I do mean HAD been a person that when someone asked me for help I did what ever I could to help and if I couldnt do it directly I would find someone that could help that person. Even when it cost me what I really didnt have to give. BUT NOT any more. I dont loan tools because they come back broke if at all and I cant afford to replace them. I dont give cups of sugar or a can of gas. I will lend an ear but thats it. I truly believe that the people with the less give the most and that is very dang erst in this day and age. You can say I am bitter and its true. Our world has changed. If the shtf I dont believe people would help each other I think people would take what they needed with no more thought than swatting a fly. Our world have changed in One life span from the Great Depression to the last depression 2008. I dont know about you but 2008 changed my world and I am too old to recover what I lost. It changed the way I live and what I contribute to society and the economy.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Nevada said:


> This attitude is largely political. There is a shift to the left, and the people on the right don't like it. This is the expected result of changing demographics in this country. But that's one of the problems with having government by the people; the majority of people might not think like you.
> 
> And this is only the beginning. This is going to be a hard pill for conservatives to swallow, but more movement to the left is what our future holds.


I think there is a trend to the left on the SOCIAL side of things, but if our society at large doesn't learn to do math and move to the right on the fiscal side of things, we'll be talking about our society in the past tense before long. Unsustainable is the catch phrase of the decade, well, when 50 cents out of every dollar spent is either borrowed or goes to pay interest, that is far from sustainable. The only sane thing to do is cut spending, yet they can't do it. Even the lousy 10% from the sequester was too large a challenge. 

"Society" doesn't bother me because I can have as little or as much of it as I want, for the most part. We live where we don't have people close by, me and DH both work at small operations, etc. If we want to go into the city for something, we know where it is. But we don't have to deal with it unless we want to.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

badlander said:


> She dealt with the problem by pulling her child from an environment that she did not approve of. The school is now without the gov. subsidies that child was earning for them just by being in a public school. IF enough people do that they will start to listen. She is addressing the problem in a positive manner, not ignoring it.
> 
> Ignore the problem, ignore the news? Be an uninformed voter and citizen, go ahead, that's what got this country in the mess it is in to start with. If you are happy with your head in the sand, then more power to you. It is just not the way I intend to live my life.


So if I stop watching the news, it's living with my head in the sand, yet if your friend pulls her kid from public school instead of trying to do anything to fix the problem, she's addressing the issue? Doesn't sound like it to me. 



> Yes I am being sarcastic and cynical. But that's just the way I am.


Well, good luck with that. I choose to live a happy, positive life, not a life of negativity and anger. :thumb:


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

MO_cows said:


> if our society at large doesn't learn to do math and move to the right on the fiscal side of things, we'll be talking about our society in the past tense before long.


What are past examples of that happening? I'm still waiting for an example of trickle-down economics working.


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## gweny (Feb 10, 2014)

I love to sing that song and DH loves when I sing it. Don't much care what the rest think.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Tiempo said:


> When my gran was young the kids who didn't have lunch starved, or went to the work house or went to work down t' pit or mill.
> 
> Ah, the good old days.


Now they get shot in their classroom. Or die of overdoses. Or beat each other up. Or commit suicide. Or die while texting while driving.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

where I want to said:


> Now they get shot in their classroom. Or die of overdoses. Or beat each other up. Or commit suicide. Or die while texting while driving.


Because kids (and adults) didn't die from stupid stuff, or suicide, or get in fights in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 1890's..or whenever it was that everything was so dandy.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Nevada said:


> What are past examples of that happening? I'm still waiting for an example of trickle-down economics working.


When's the last time a poor person gave anybody a job?

I might be the poster child for trickle down economics. I work for a small business. We seldom get a raise but when good things happen for the business we are quite likely to get a bonus. 

What other kind of economics is there besides trickle down? The goods and services purchased by the better off create and support a lot more jobs than the folks in the lower tax brackets, now don't they? Would you rather see jobs come from building nice boats, big houses, and selling all the toys and trappings of wealth, or from a few more fast food restaurants and discount stores?


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

Nevada said:


> What are past examples of that happening? I'm still waiting for an example of trickle-down economics working.


*****************************
How's that doing so far? Heard anymore about it......I'm sure that
would have been one of those cases of 'trickle down economics',
if the thing didn't reek of liberal cronyism and corruption....
Somebody made out like a bandit!!! But it certainly wasn't John Q. Citizen.





Nevada said:


> This attitude is largely political. There is a shift to the left, and the people on the right don't like it. This is the expected result of changing demographics in this country. But that's one of the problems with having government by the people; the majority of people might not think like you.
> 
> And this is only the beginning. This is going to be a hard pill for conservatives to swallow, but more movement to the left is what our future holds.


**********
That bitter pill works both ways and you'll have 
to swallow it just like the rest of us will. Unfortunately,
after having done so, the future.....what little will be left,
won't be so bright and cheerful anymore. Society is at the crossroads
and its' days are numbered. Not only that, but found wanting as well.

Judgment day is at hand.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Nevada said:


> What are past examples of that happening? I'm still waiting for an example of trickle-down economics working.


Aren't you the one who likes to cite Henry Ford's high wages as working so great to build the middle class? 

If the middle class in the 20th century did not benefit from trickle down economics, where did their wealth come from? I know, I know, you don't answer questions. Never mind, forget I asked.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Nevada said:


> This attitude is largely political. There is a shift to the left, and the people on the right don't like it. This is the expected result of changing demographics in this country. But that's one of the problems with having government by the people; the majority of people might not think like you.
> 
> And this is only the beginning. This is going to be a hard pill for conservatives to swallow, but more movement to the left is what our future holds.


You're dreaming. we are on the verge of a conservative backlash that will knock the sandles from your feet. The only thing the liberals have going for them is the volume of their whining. They have generated a level of frustation and anger that is not going to end well for them. The pendulum has swung as far to the left as it can and if they try to keep it from swinging back it is going to get ugly. Your burned out ideals have shown how worthless they are.

Watch what happens in November.


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## badlander (Jun 7, 2009)

MDKatie said:


> So if I stop watching the news, it's living with my head in the sand, yet if your friend pulls her kid from public school instead of trying to do anything to fix the problem, she's addressing the issue? Doesn't sound like it to me.
> 
> She is addressing the issue by not exposing her child to an undesirable environment. And as I wrote. Every time a parent pulls a child to home teach them they are denying that school district reimbursement from the state. They want children in class. Children mean money for the school district and Education is a business no matter if you want to think of it as such. And before you criticize you need to know that the Mom has been an active driving force in school reform in their district for years. She tried to get people to listen, they wouldn't so she did what she had to do to protect her child. I applaud her.
> 
> ...


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

JJ Grandits said:


> You're dreaming. we are on the verge of a conservative backlash that will knock the sandles from your feet. The only thing the liberals have going for them is the volume of their whining. They have generated a level of frustation and anger that is not going to end well for them. The pendulum has swung as far to the left as it can and if they try to keep it from swinging back it is going to get ugly. Your burned out ideals have shown how worthless they are.
> 
> Watch what happens in November.


Republicans are still contenders in the 2014 election, and probably even in 2016, but by 2018 the demographics will have eaten republicans alive. Republicans refuse to read the handwriting on the wall.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

You're stuck in the past. This is not a Republican thing at all. I don't give a rats rear end about the Republicans. The only thing they have going for them is that they are not Democrats. This is much bigger then political parties.


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## badlander (Jun 7, 2009)

JJ Grandits said:


> You're stuck in the past. This is not a Republican thing at all. I don't give a rats rear end about the Republicans. The only thing they have going for them is that they are not Democrats. This is much bigger then political parties.


JJ, I am being as serious as a heart attack when I ask you this.

Do you think it can be fixed? And how and by whom? I'm really beginning to think that it has gone past the brink of easy fix. And no, I am not trying to be cynical here, just open minded.

I fear the reset button.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Nevada said:


> What are past examples of that happening? I'm still waiting for an example of trickle-down economics working.


What happened when that well known hard right wing conservative JFK cut the tax rates?


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

badlander said:


> JJ, I am being as serious as a heart attack when I ask you this.
> 
> Do you think it can be fixed? And how and by whom? I'm really beginning to think that it has gone past the brink of easy fix. And no, I am not trying to be cynical here, just open minded.
> 
> I fear the reset button.



I'm not JJ but I'll answer. *NO*. Its too late. Even if we could get adults into congress and the WH in the next elections and they started cutting the spending the day after they were sworn in they couldn't cut enough fast enough to prevent a collapse. Delay it a bit maybe put not prevent it.

Its a danged if you do and danged if you don't problem. If you don't cut enough the debit eats you alive. If you do cut enough you will having rioting in the streets because there are so many leaches dependent on sucking on the government beast and know no other way.

Hunker down and try to be around to put the pieces back together. But just like a dropped vase, no matter how hard you try it will NEVER look the same as it did before the fall.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

Wow! I am proud that I raised my son to never hit a woman. I believe if a woman hit him he would turn and walk away and I am proud of that. I also believe if a woman needed aid he would come to help. It was hard to watch all those men stand and watch as Rice's fiance laid on the ground until finally a woman came to help her. Now as for my daughters they probably would get hit as well because that type of thing wouldn't be ok and they would voice their opinions I just hope my son would be close if they needed him. 

Also, I am a few pounds overweight but that doesn't mean I don't believe in being healthy. We can all strive to be healthy and most homesteaders are doing just that with their gardens and livestock. (providing their own food) No one should judge another on what they look like. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

I agree with MD Katie, choose to be happy and choose to be positive. We all slip sometimes and need a jolt back to the world of positive but it is a much better place than the alternative. I have always noticed if I go into a place with a smile and a positive attitude it usually spins out into others and the whole place is more pleasant.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

badlander said:


> JJ, I am being as serious as a heart attack when I ask you this.
> 
> Do you think it can be fixed? And how and by whom? I'm really beginning to think that it has gone past the brink of easy fix. And no, I am not trying to be cynical here, just open minded.
> 
> I fear the reset button.


Yeah, I think it can be fixed if we are serious about fixing it. Decades of sloth, indifference, complacency and disinterest have put us in the position we are in while those who wish to destroy this Country have worked without ceasing. We get the government we deserve, and we deserve the government we have. If you really want it back, take it.


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## BaconandBakin (Jul 13, 2014)

watcher said:


> Haven't followed the NFL stuff but I can tell you this anyone, ANYONE who hits me in anger can fully expect to be hit back. Not having a Y chromosome doesn't give you a free pass to assault me.
> 
> You are fighting against more than society here, you are fighting human nature. In all human societies people are more attracted to skinny than fat.


I should have clarified, she limp wristed "slapped" him before he cold cocked her. If you consider that assault, you and I strongly disagree. The only time I would ever even consider raising my hand against a woman or any other person would be if I truly felt threatened or I felt my children or loved ones were in real danger.

Well, I admit I do not know a lot every society ever but I am pretty certain that studies show that throughout history healthy, voluptuous women are the most revered (fat by todays beliefs) and that crappywood and the entertainment industry have decided that we should like skinny women instead. First of all, I do not believe any one type is best, I just wish people would decide for themselves what they like and want. Secondly, I was not addressing what body type is best but rather the self-centered comments made by people essentially saying that anyone who wasn't like them or like models was ugly.

Now, all that being said, I am new here and I would hate to get off on the wrong foot with you or anyone else, I am a very easy person to get along with but also feel voicing and discussing your opinions is a great way to understand others and I hope I have not offended in any way. I feel a lot of posters (even on this thread) could try a little harder to be respectful with their comments, it often seems we don't know how to make a point without saying that the other person is dumb.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

I'm pretty much disgusted with the majority of society. They've brought us well past the point of no return by voting into office the people most likely to return the favor with other people's money, and not just today's people. I'm an optimistic person, always have been, so I think after the collapse realistic people will take charge and re-establish a society where personal responsibility will be once again the norm.

As confirmation of what we've become, note the phrase in advertising repeated time after time - "FREE". We've become a society where people believe something can possibly be free. Companies like Jos. A Banks convince buyers they're getting 3 for the price of 1. Personally, I won't buy from someone who thinks I'm that stupid.

Societies who think that way can't survive.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Nevada said:


> This attitude is largely political. There is a shift to the left, and the people on the right don't like it. This is the expected result of changing demographics in this country. But that's one of the problems with having government by the people; the majority of people might not think like you.
> 
> And this is only the beginning. This is going to be a hard pill for conservatives to swallow, but more movement to the left is what our future holds.


Yes it will slide to the left for awhile and then it will slide back to the right for awhile. In recent years I have become partial to calling it the socio/economic/political electric slide instead of just saying sometimes I find myself in this boat, sometimes I find myself standing in that boat and sometimes I find myself stepping between the two boats that represent the socio/economic environment surrounding my life hoping I don't fall in with an old lead bottom Binghamptom style split and twist from the waist head dunk as the PT 73 drifts out from the dock. "socio/economic/ political electric slide" is so much shorter and almost descriptive for my social left gazing, fiscal right leaning moderate aspect. 

One thing I find that helps me to avoid media overload that many find blurs their perception is my decision years ago to limit my internet and broadcast media based most often sensationalized news exposure to three maybe four days of early morning TV news per week and the hard copy issues of my local newspapers read casually over my morning coffee, our weekly small town paper with the local neighborhood based interest columns recounting "Vernie Jean's recent 87th birthday party or Billy Jones' recovery from gallstone removal" for entertainment and my daily WSJ delivered in the mid day mail to read over lunch and dinner before stacking for use as lining in my dogs potty pan.

Other than visiting the few boards I moderate and a couple sites on which I play correspondence chess and discuss a few issues, Yahoo finance as I review my retirement plans about covers my personal internet exposure now.

Nevada,
I only fear one thing of a dramatic shift to the left. As you and I are both retirees who have taken a right lean advantage of weakened real estate markets, if you find yourself shifting enough to end up on the future right of my moderate position, give me a bit of warning if you can so I don't get a Twilight Zone shock as we both age.  



Nevada said:


> What are past examples of that happening? I'm still waiting for an example of trickle-down economics working.


The most clear example of trickle down in action that I saw up close and personal was during the 1990-1991 recession/depression as industry wide layoffs were occurring and management was trying to keep the numbers of the lay off groups below 50 per week to avoid having to report it in the local media.

My manager had given me a list of 600 employees whom my lab staff and myself were to begin terminating the next Monday in increments for the coming quarter due to lost contracts from some of our prime contractors.

During that week all of the prime contractors received tax incentives or production grants and reinstated existing contracts and placed some new ones with my employer. My employer also received some incentives. 

All of the incentives and tax breaks combined during that week that initially I was instructed to postpone the Black Monday start of the part of the lay off I was responsible for by two weeks.

I not only did not have to initiate lay off of 600 employees, I saw sub contracts of our sub contracts passed on to small cap services we contracted with requiring them to hire additional staff.

During the next 18 months , our division also hired around 200 employees to ease the load on the list of 600 that I had happily shredded when told the trickle down effect of the incentive tax breaks and grants to t us and the contract primes had shown adequate positive influence.

Trickle down does work, unfortunately the media tends to attempt to view it "coast to coast" instead of industry specific where the positive aspects can usually be viewed more clearly.

While during that same period fast food workers, store clerks etc. were being pink slipped, I saw 600 employment dead men walking not only get pardoned but saw over 300 new jobs created in three levels of our sector , all within a few weeks.

Sure then fast food workers were getting walked out but I hired about 30 of those lower wage employees at a higher entry wage in our sector as they had been earning where they had been.

Trickle down works but being a trickle , its a trickle, not a flood as those on the utopian yearning left and media desire.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Tiempo said:


> When my gran was young the kids who didn't have lunch starved, or went to the work house or went to work down t' pit or mill.
> 
> Ah, the good old days.


How many of those kids starved to death? Not unusual for kids back then to go to work to help the family out. I'll wager if you track those kids, they went on to work and support themselves and their families. Life was never easy but laying home on the couch relying on a government check does not provide people a sense of pride or accomplishment. Both are essential to a happy life.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

poppy said:


> How many of those kids starved to death? Not unusual for kids back then to go to work to help the family out. I'll wager if you track those kids, they went on to work and support themselves and their families. Life was never easy but laying home on the couch relying on a government check does not provide people a sense of pride or accomplishment. Both are essential to a happy life.


Clearly you're not familiar with what the workhouses were. And a pit is no place for a child, many of them died, as did kids in the mills.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

I did have one relative who made it out of being a pit boy, he went on to be one of the most famous soccer players in the history of the game, so there are some success stories, but they were not the norm. 

Rickets and other conditions from childhood malnutrition were very common.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Shrek said:


> Nevada,
> I only fear one thing of a dramatic shift to the left. As you and I are both retirees who have taken a right lean advantage of weakened real estate markets, if you find yourself shifting enough to end up on the future right of my moderate position, give me a bit of warning if you can so I don't get a Twilight Zone shock as we both age.


Changes to the government won't be that dramatic. It's just that national elections will be unwinnable for republicans. They'll still have a presence in congress from all red districts.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

BaconandBakin said:


> I should have clarified, she limp wristed "slapped" him before he cold cocked her. If you consider that assault, you and I strongly disagree.


Legally speaking it was. AAMOF, if the cops had seen that they would have have been legally required to arrested her for domestic violence. Zero tolerance and all you know.




BaconandBakin said:


> The only time I would ever even consider raising my hand against a woman or any other person would be if I truly felt threatened or I felt my children or loved ones were in real danger.


I've seen a man lose a tooth when a woman punched him. I've also seen a man with a nasty looking scar from being knifed by a woman. Again not having a Y chromosome doesn't mean someone is not dangerous.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

There is not equality of the sexes when it comes to domestic violence. The man is always presumed the guilty party by the cops. I worked with a guy who carried the nuke football for the president when he was military, an upstanding guy in every way. His ex-wife would accuse him of DV when they would swap custody of their toddler so she could use his arrest against him when she took him to court in an effort to gain full custody. The man would get carted away when she called the cops, but there was no evidence so he was never convicted. 

Finally, one day he decided to put an end to it when she went into one of her frequent rages. She hit and hit him in the face, cutting his face with her rings. He had dozens of scratches and cuts because he did absolutely nothing to stop her. They both called the cops and because he was a bloody mess and there was nothing wrong with her, she got arrested and eventually convicted. 

He had to endure the assault and public humiliation since it took weeks for his face to heal in order for the cops and judge to finally take his side.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Tiempo said:


> Clearly you're not familiar with what the workhouses were. And a pit is no place for a child, many of them died, as did kids in the mills.


I think there is a pretty good chance that most of the kids that your grammy went to school with have died.... working the pit, mills or not. Kids die today, that have never seen a mill. Had a neighbor not long ago lost one of their little ones... pulled a tv over on himself. Life has no guarantees, as Gus said... "life is short, shorter for some than others".


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Tiempo said:


> When my gran was young the kids who didn't have lunch starved, or went to the work house or went to work down t' pit or mill.
> 
> Ah, the good old days.


Sounds like poor parenting :facepalm:


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> This attitude is largely political. There is a shift to the left, and the people on the right don't like it. This is the expected result of changing demographics in this country. But that's one of the problems with having government by the people; the majority of people might not think like you.
> 
> And this is only the beginning. This is going to be a hard pill for conservatives to swallow, but more movement to the left is what our future holds.


So you predict more moral decay, higher poverty, more government, less liberty, corruption, drugs, crime and terror?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> What are past examples of that happening? I'm still waiting for an example of trickle-down economics working.


Still waiting to see how the welfare theory helps the economy too
People who get everything for free don't respect any of it


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

DEKE01 said:


> Aren't you the one who likes to cite Henry Ford's high wages as working so great to build the middle class?
> 
> If the middle class in the 20th century did not benefit from trickle down economics, where did their wealth come from? I know, I know, you don't answer questions. Never mind, forget I asked.


That's the 2 sided liberal philosophy
They take the money from the rich, then hate the rich for having money.
In a liberal's mind, all rich people just fell out of bed and into a pile of money.
They can't fathom someone working 18 hours a day, 7 days a week with a goal and a purpose.
they'd rather sit on the computer and hate rich people...it's just easier


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Nevada said:


> What are past examples of that happening? I'm still waiting for an example of trickle-down economics working.


Maybe this will help explain it. http://www.businessinsider.com/study-tax-cuts-dont-lead-to-growth-2012-9. Or not.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Cornhusker said:


> Sounds like poor parenting :facepalm:


No. Abject, institutionalized poverty within the framework of a class system that afforded little to no escape.

You have no context, knowledge or understanding of the history you are commenting on so best not to bother.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> Sounds like poor parenting :facepalm:


And in the UK...


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

I hate that this went political very fast. Politics and government are only a small part of society. Granted, government is getting bigger and bigger, but there is so much more to life than this. Society is full of great things if you look for them, or even if you don't look but just stop looking for all the negatives every second of every day. I voted not bad.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

What I don't get is why some people get so upset about somebody they don't know doing something to somebody else they don't know and not knowing all the facts but yet sure the law did not handle it properly but they know what should be done to make it fair.

Why?


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> Sounds like poor parenting :facepalm:


I hope that comment was tongue in cheek. Stuff like that happened on this side of the pond, too. We had a few more resources to spare than the war torn nation of the UK, but poor kids have had it really rough here, too, in some places and at some times.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Tricky Grama said:


> And in the UK...


So?

The OP said, "society as a whole". Society is not exclusive to the US


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Tiempo said:


> So?
> 
> The OP said, "society as a whole". Society is not exclusive to the US


Oh, in that case I'd like too lodge a complaint about sanitation in Mexico.

Of course the OP meant OUR society. The UK has plenty of its own problems.


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## hippygirl (Apr 3, 2010)

MOSSYNUT said:


> There seems to be a sense of entitlement by a lot of people that I find disgusting.
> 
> _*As far as the football player*_ I don't know much about that. But my mom always told me if a woman puts her self in a man's place to treat her like a man :hammer: but then again that heifer was crazy. Luckily that's one position I've never been in with a woman:ashamed:


What got me the most about the football player was that it was featured for quite a few nights on the national news. It didn't matter that the WHOLE WORLD is going to pot, noooooooooo...the football player-mess got top story above ALL else.

What does that say about us?


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Tiempo said:


> So?
> 
> The OP said, "society as a whole". Society is not exclusive to the US


Oh, sorry, thought we were discussing the USA. 
Not many here had a voice in what went on in Merry Old England. But here, child labor laws were enacted. This was good. No one here would work a child to death, no one would want to return to anything like that.
But, as things usually go with Progressives, they have to take things to the extreme. Now teenagers can't get jobs b/c of laws. Small kids can't have lemonade stands. Ya know, progressives think they know best. They are our downfall.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

I think the fact that there are no penguins in the arctic is racist.


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

Tricky Grama said:


> I think the fact that there are no penguins in the arctic is racist.


+++++++++++++++
Low.....:hijacked:


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> Oh, sorry, thought we were discussing the USA.
> Not many here had a voice in what went on in Merry Old England. But here, child labor laws were enacted. This was good. No one here would work a child to death, no one would want to return to anything like that.
> But, as things usually go with Progressives, they have to take things to the extreme. Now teenagers can't get jobs b/c of laws. Small kids can't have lemonade stands. Ya know, progressives think they know best. They are our downfall.


The progressive agenda is the downfall of society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward–Piven_strategy


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> I think the fact that there are no penguins in the arctic is racist.


Polar bears are racist, they don't want "Those kind of birds" around


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Nit pick as much as you like, the reality is that there was good and bad in the past and there's good and bad now. 

But go ahead and wallow if it makes you feel better.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Tiempo said:


> Nit pick as much as you like, the reality is that there was good and bad in the past and there's good and bad now.
> 
> But go ahead and wallow if it makes you feel better.


Yeppers, we have always had those among us looking to stick their hands in someone elses pockets, it just seems like today there are more of them. In days of old those kind wound up in jail if they were caught, today such practices are encouraged.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Tricky Grama said:


> Oh, sorry, thought we were discussing the USA.
> Not many here had a voice in what went on in Merry Old England. But here, child labor laws were enacted. This was good. No one here would work a child to death, no one would want to return to anything like that.
> But, as things usually go with Progressives, they have to take things to the extreme. Now teenagers can't get jobs b/c of laws. Small kids can't have lemonade stands. Ya know, progressives think they know best. They are our downfall.


The discussion is if things are better now than in the past. As I said, it's a mixed bag.

When exactly were the good old days? 

As for the US

http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/childlabor/


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Tiempo said:


> When exactly were the good old days?


That would depend upon who you ask... I saw a guy on the news yesterday who claimed "the good old days" was that period prior to desegregation.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Tiempo said:


> When exactly were the good old days?


I'm pretty sure that it was back sometime before Eve said, "You know, that apple sure looks tasty!"

Then, it was only a matter of time before Eve asked Adam, "Hey Adam, does this fig leaf make my rear end look big?"

And Adam made the mistake of saying, "No Eve, that fig leaf doesn't make your rear end look big. All that apple pie makes your rear end look big."

It was pretty much down hill from there.

Once something is said, you can't put it back.

But everything will change when the end times come. I'll have my bunker and all that canned meat. I'll be the king of my own little kingdom.

Oops, I'm sorry! They say that this is supposed to only be about America.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> Polar bears are racist, they don't want "Those kind of birds" around


I had no idea! We should make a law...


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