# geldings and mares



## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

When we bought our first horse last summer, I wasn't really looking for a gelding, but the owner assured me they were much less temporamental than mares. I was also told that this horse had absolutely no interest in mares, didn't even know the difference. I was told that if a gelding did show interest, it meant he was "cut proud," and that would never be an issue with one of his horses, that he wouldn't have one that was.

I'm fairly certain I sound pretty ignorant falling for this, but, as I said, I've never had a horse before.

So, anyway, the last couple of days, the mare in the next field has been in heat. I don't have to know anything about horses for it to be obvious. He might yet take the fence down.

Is this normal for a gelding, and I was just snookered? Or was I just snookered?:hrm:


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I don't know how long the previous owner had the gelding, or if he had mares around as well, during the "season" ... but if the gelding is showing that much interest in a mare now, he probably would have shown interest in mares when the previous owner had him, if there were mares around and in season.

There are three reasons geldings can be a PIA like this: 1) they had a retained testicle that was not removed when they were gelded 2) they were "proud cut" and some of the testicular tissue remained 3) for whatever reason, they are producing more testosterone than the average gelding.

I've never had one, so I don't know all of the possibilities as far as correcting the problem. But unless the previous owner did not have a mare on the place or the gelding was not there during the months mares would have been in season, it was probably as obvious to him as it is to you.


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## RLStewart (Sep 10, 2006)

We had a colt with a retained testicle that the first surgery was not successful on. From that experience I know that the only way to know if a gelding is "proud cut" is a blood test. Actually they pull blood, inject them with something and then an hour later take more blood. From the results of the test they can tell if the gelding still has any testicular tissue. If they do then surgery can be done to try to find it and remove it but if they don't then there isn't much that can be done. I believe there are some mare hormones that they give them to settle them down but don't know the particulars. Whatever the reason for his behavior it seems likely that the former owner would have known.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Mecca, the Arabian gelding I had,, loved mares and did everything a stallion did but get foals.
Over the years I have met more geldings like them, than what I think a gelding should be acting like.

I did end up with what I would of called a properly gelded, gelding with the Peruvian Paso for awhile. But I find them a rare gem.

One reason I don't have a gelding on the place. My Mini mare Maggie is a hussy shorts around any male and would never give them any peace and I don't want to take a chance of a gelding tearing a mare up, which I have seen happen at friends places. In fact this happened to one of the mares I was boarding at a place for awhile, a number of years ago. Can't tell you how mad I was, was spitting nails. And a big Vet bill later.

Also have dealt with so many people, that did not even know what their horses were doing or they would just out and out lie when they had a horse for sale. Sounds like the person you bought your gelding from either didn't have mares or was lying to you.

You can see what the Vet can do if anything. Build a bigger fence with some thick hot wire that has some bite to it,, or sell your gelding if he won't keep off the fence.


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## fetch33 (Jan 15, 2010)

Mares can cause this behavior too... they can be real hussies. I've known a few that would jump a fence to be serviced by a willing gelding.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

The people I bought him from did have mares. 
Truth is, I've been sorry I bought him almost ever since I brought him home, and need to think of a way to just get shed of him. I also was stupid enough to buy him without a current Coggins. It just ran out, they told me, after I'd made the second trip out there, and we had the trailer and anxious children in tow.:grump: So now I have to figure out how to get him to the vet to get that taken care of before I can even advertise him, I guess.
I'm leaning toward just sending him through auction and taking my losses.
This may be our first and last horse.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Geldings often show interest when a woman is having her cycle. I am glad that we got our horses after I went into menopause. :hrm: 

Why do you regret getting this boy? Is he in your pasture alone? He may be calling to the mare just because he needs another horsey buddy. Our two boys have been in our dry lot. We're just getting little shoots of grass coming up. Over the last week we've been letting the boys out more and more. They act like middle school boys when they see the neighbor's horse just on the other side of the fence. I'm not even sure if their act is to impress a girl or show off for a boy.

Your story brings home the point that we should never get a horse in haste. We should have a horsey friend pick out a horse for us or at least go with us to look at horses. We should also have a nice history of lessons that teach us horsey language, conformation, how to care for a horse, how to do some basic horse training, and how to ride somewhere other than in an arena. 

Doesn't your vet come out in the spring to do an annual and give shots? If you don't have a horse vet yet you should ask your farrier or a horsey friend to recommend a vet.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

It's always unfortunate when someone's first experience with a horse is unpleasant. With experienced horse people, one unfortunate experience is easier to get past. When it's your first experience with horses, it so often seems that the way people deal with the disappointment is to avoid horses. 

I'm sorry that the situation did not/ is not working well and unfortunately, as with anything else, from used cars to whatever, there are people who are willing to be less than truthful and less than helpful.

I can understand the frustrations.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Joshie said:


> Geldings often show interest when a woman is having her cycle. I am glad that we got our horses after I went into menopause. :hrm:


I've never heard of nor experienced such a thing. What part of the cycle?


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Originally Posted by Joshie
Geldings often show interest when a woman is having her cycle. I am glad that we got our horses after I went into menopause.
LisaInN.Idaho said:


> I've never heard of nor experienced such a thing. What part of the cycle?


Neither have I. I have owned and handled a lot of geldings and worked with a number of stallions in years past and I have never seen such a thing happen.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It's an old wives tale dating back to the time when nice girls learned the dark arts and dealing with those big old four legged brutes was man's work. If it were true, I would have been killed by a bull, gelding or stud long before now.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Joshie said:


> Why do you regret getting this boy? Is he in your pasture alone? He may be calling to the mare just because he needs another horsey buddy. Our two boys have been in our dry lot. We're just getting little shoots of grass coming up. Over the last week we've been letting the boys out more and more. They act like middle school boys when they see the neighbor's horse just on the other side of the fence. I'm not even sure if their act is to impress a girl or show off for a boy.
> 
> Your story brings home the point that we should never get a horse in haste. We should have a horsey friend pick out a horse for us or at least go with us to look at horses. We should also have a nice history of lessons that teach us horsey language, conformation, how to care for a horse, how to do some basic horse training, and how to ride somewhere other than in an arena.
> 
> Doesn't your vet come out in the spring to do an annual and give shots? If you don't have a horse vet yet you should ask your farrier or a horsey friend to recommend a vet.


No, we do not have a vet who comes to our property. As I said, this is our first horse. The horses in the adjacent field belong to a friend. We vet our own goats.

The horse is in the field with a jenny. His interest in the mare is more than interest in the horses next door. She is obviously in flaming heat, and he is obviously in flaming interest. I don't know horses, but it looks just the same as when a goat in heat has just a fence between her and the buck.

We did have an experienced friend go with us to try out the horse, and promise to help us out with the horse. But, you know, everyone has their own lives, and it has not worked out to be so.

We had thought that he would be a good first horse because, at the time, he was being ridden daily by a teenager. But it didn't take him any time at all to get the upper hand with us, since he could tell we were amateurs. When my daughter would get ready to put him up, he'd take back out for the pasture with her on him, leaning back and telling him whoa! whoa! whoa!

Obviously we needed lessons, as well as the horse, but I just don't like this horse well enough to want to spend the time and money on him. If I do train a horse, I'll start over with what I wanted to start with. But that is a very big "if."


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mary,tx, how old is the gelding and what did you have in mind when you were looking for a horse.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

He's only 4 or 5. What did I have in mind? Something that my children and I could learn to ride on, that would be totally gentle. He has been gentle, except for nipping my son once. He doesn't buck or anything. But he had not been taught to neck reign. I had thought that since he was being ridden daily by a kid, and had been ridden a lot bareback and under saddle, that he would do just as well with my kids. Whenever they got on him, he just did what he wanted to do, and went where he wanted to go. About the time we figured out that we needed a trainer over, he banged one of his front legs on a gait and went lame for about a week. Then we figured to wait a couple of months to be sure he was okay, and then it was winter. 
Now he's just king of the pasture, used to doing whatever he wants to do.
If I liked his personality, I'd still be willing to work with him, but I don't. I don't like the way he turns his rear end to me everytime he comes up. I don't like being nibbled, especially since he did that with my son and then bit him. Truth to tell, I'm just no longer sure that I like horses.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Bad "first experiences" can certainly influence how you relate to an animal. I know I've never liked chickens ... ever ... and can pretty well figure out why. My first experience with them was helping my grandmother gather eggs and a couple of the more reactive ones would peck me if I reached under them when they were on the nest. Didn't really do any damage, just unpleasant and of course I'm sure I started being very tentative, which made it worse. Then she had a big rooster that started chasing me ... after that a turkey gobbler ... so all of my first exposure to chickens/turkeys were unpleasant ... and I've never kept chickens myself or wanted to.

So I can see where horses would not be your favorite thing ... it sounds like it has been an unpleasant and unfortunate "first experience" for you.

If you decide to try again, I would really recommend something older than 4 or 5 ... 10 to 15 is usually a good, reliable "middle age" for a horse. And teenagers are often some of the most fearless/reckless riders in the world (I know, I was one!) but also some of the best riders ... probably not a good criteria for judging how reliable a horse might be.


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

What were talking about in that thread where the person thought it'd be a great idea to get horse "'cause they're so cheap?" Not to bang on you, Mary, but you totally illustrate the point I was trying to make there.

Hope you can find a solution to your problems, but in my opinion, none of them are the horse's fault.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mary,tx, most of his behaviours would improve training and time. The problem with young horses is that someone has to keep them honest so they don't develop bad habits and they can reach their full potential. I'm sorry this one isn't working for you but in all reality, I wouldn't have expected it to work well. I do think that if you would be more satisfied and your kids would be far safer with a mature horse.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

2horses said:


> What were talking about in that thread where the person thought it'd be a great idea to get horse "'cause they're so cheap?" Not to bang on you, Mary, but you totally illustrate the point I was trying to make there.
> 
> Hope you can find a solution to your problems, but in my opinion, none of them are the horse's fault.


I don't think I said they were the horse's fault, just that I find I do not like his personality. I've wanted a horse my whole life, so excuse me if it offends you that I bought this one.
:bash:


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

No, what offends me is the idea that a complete novice buys a totally unsuitable horse, doesn't do anything with him for months, doesn't even attempt to get professional help of any sort, then decides they want to just dump him at auction because they don't like him.

ETA - and that situation is not exclusive to you. It happens far too frequently, and is getting worse with the tumble the horse market has taken in recent years. It's why horses are abandoned and rescues are filled to overflowing - horses are far too disposable these days, and a lot of the time the horse never had a chance.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I would suggest that his personality is the result of a lack of training, not a "bad" personality. It's just bad manners. He can be taught good manners pretty easily if you will get help with him and also learn how to work with him to maintain them. Look into Clinton Anderson's training for instance. He can (and should) learn to turn two eyes to you, rather than two heels, and to stay out of your space, etc. He's just gotten confused that he is NOT the herd leader. This could happen with any horse, no matter how well trained, if you don't know how to deal with it and take control of the situation. It's normal herd dynamics. 

As for his interest in the mare in heat, that is unfortunate, but there again, if he has good training he may be fine to work with in spite of it. Many stallions are very good citizens. Some proud cut geldings are worse than stallions, but you won't know if he's been allowed to be a jerky teenager around you. 

It really isn't all that hard to straighten out, but you need to learn a few things or you won't enjoy any horse you have. We got an older (17yr old) mare with a wonderful temperament and good training... she still pushed to see if I was in control and put a few things over on me at first, until I did some research and relearned how to work with a horse. (I used to have them when I was younger.)

Also, being ridden by a teenager could mean the teenager is an expert horse woman (I took lessons and was certainly competent as a teenager - better than I am now!) 

I don't want to put you down, but encourage you to learn how to work with a horse before you give up. Once you have some skills, you can more easily assess if he really is the right horse for you or if you'd rather have a different one. As it is, he will continue to get worse and most any horse you get will start to push their boundaries, just because you don't know what to do about it.


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## Peace n Quiet (Jun 16, 2003)

2horses said:


> No, what offends me is the idea that a complete novice buys a totally unsuitable horse, doesn't do anything with him for months, doesn't even attempt to get professional help of any sort, then decides they want to just dump him at auction because they don't like him.
> 
> ETA - and that situation is not exclusive to you. It happens far too frequently, and is getting worse with the tumble the horse market has taken in recent years. It's why horses are abandoned and rescues are filled to overflowing - horses are far too disposable these days, and a lot of the time the horse never had a chance.


Wow! That's harsh... can't think of a single nice thing to say?

Mary, 

Sorry that your experience has been unpleasant. Unfortunately that same horse may have actually been well-behaved under more experienced hands. Though truthfully, it does sound to me like you were lied to and now have a green and ill-mannered horse on your hands. I think you already know that without investing alot of time, and some money on training, then this horse is probably not the right one for you.

Of course, now your stuck with the job of trying to sell him in a market where he has little or no value unless you can prove that he is trustworthy. I see something of a catch 22 here. In order for that to happen, much effort must be put into his training to make him desirable. Then once he's trained, do you still want the horse?

Good luck.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I'm quite shocked that an experienced horseman would encourage an novice to buy a green horse.


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## Skykomish (May 28, 2008)

Not really sure what you can do about the mare interest except a nice HOT hotwire. As far as taking off with your daughter have her forcibly pull ONE side of the reins back, so he has to turn in a circle to keep from falling over. And KEEP turning him in a circle until he gives in. Theres a maneuver where you anchor your arm on the horses neck (at the elbow) and pull right up close by the head so it gives you leverage. Not sure how best to explain it but thats what I was taught to prevent bolting.

I also can't believe an experienced horse person would recommend a horse under about 15 for a novice. My first horse was 18, she was a dream.


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

Peace n Quiet said:


> Wow! That's harsh... can't think of a single nice thing to say?


Sorry, but posts like this:



mary said:


> Truth is, I've been sorry I bought him almost ever since I brought him home, and need to think of a way to just get shed of him. <snip>
> I'm leaning toward just sending him through auction and taking my losses.
> This may be our first and last horse.


don't tend to bring out my sweet side.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

2horses, obviously you think more of horses than people. I don't. He's just an animal, an ill-mannered one at that. I do not feel an obligation to spend hours everyday on him or any more money trying to maybe make him what he was represented to me to be to begin with. And I'm not fixing to put my daughter back on an ill-behaved horse.


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

To further elaborate, let me say that I do understand being frustrated with a horse and it's less than desirable behavior. I do. I think anyone on this board that has had horses for a while has been there at least once before.

But.

What has Mary done to educate herself on how to deal with these less than desirable behaviors? Has she read a book? Watched a DVD? Called a trainer or even an experienced horseperson acquaintance for help? Or even call the former owner for suggestions or assistance? Don't see anything to suggest so.

So, at the first blush of anything less than perfection, instead of coming on here and saying, "Hey guys, I think I've gotten in a bit over my head with this horse I bought, as he's not turning out to be what I told he was. I have zero horse experience with horses, he's my first one to ever own, and I could use some help," the OP just complains about how much she dislikes the horse and wants to dump him at auction, and never own horses again.

She obviously made a bad decision, under pressure form kids to buy, and without competent assistance in choosing the right horse. All of it is a recipe for disaster, and that's exactly what Mary has discovered. Too, too many horses are purchased this way, with the same results, and rather than get help, or invest a little of themselves in learning something, they throw their hands up and walk away. 

This may be a very nice horse, with the proper owner. But he's green and inexperienced, maybe as much so as Mary, and that's not his fault.

The whole tone of thread is Mary has buyer's remorse and she just wants to dump the horse. Period. And yes, that _attitude_ is what I have problem with. 

If she lived near me I'd try to help her work with him and/or rehome him. It sounds like it's a simple matter of manners and respect and knowing how to enforce both.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

mary said:


> 2horses, obviously you think more of horses than people. I don't. He's just an animal, an ill-mannered one at that. I do not feel an obligation to spend hours everyday on him or any more money trying to maybe make him what he was represented to me to be to begin with. And I'm not fixing to put my daughter back on an ill-behaved horse.


The thing is, you weren't thinking more of the people involved. Buying a horse without any professional guidance when you have zero experience yourself is a BAD idea. The person who sold you this horse did the horse and your family a real disservice. Buying a horse that you are not equipped to care for properly, including training/ exercising, is not any better for the people you bought him for than it is for the poor horse. The horse is now in need of finding a new home, which is hard to do when he's being marketed by someone who is inexperienced. Your family members have had their interest in horses dashed and perhaps even replaced a love of horses with fear.

You don't have to "love horses more than people" to want the very best for all horses.


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

mary said:


> 2horses, obviously you think more of horses than people. I don't. He's just an animal, an ill-mannered one at that. I do not feel an obligation to spend hours everyday on him or any more money trying to maybe make him what he was represented to me to be to begin with. And I'm not fixing to put my daughter back on an ill-behaved horse.


I"m not telling you to put your kid in danger. I'm wondering why you won't try to learn to work with him and understand his language.



> I do not feel an obligation to spend hours everyday on him


That speaks volumes.


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## olsonla (Dec 5, 2005)

I am going to have to agree with 2horses on this- If he is ill-mannerd, that is your problem to solve. Almost ALL horses will become "ill-manner" if allowed to. We had a lady that contacted us because she just couldn't handle her horse anymore.... She could even lead the Dang thing anywhere... hmmmmm, chain under the nose and a little 30minute lesson in respecting boundries and letting him know who was boss and he was perfect gentelmen.... 

She had him for 4 minutes and let him do his normal rotine, and didn't want to make him mind(didn't want to hurt his feelings?) and they were right back where they started- I just gave up.... she didn't want to listen/ understand/ That Horses are Herd Animals and NEED leadership (or they will take charge) that is what your gelding is doing, same thing with dogs.... I am sure he must be lonely and also why he is showing so much intrest in your neighbors horse... Horses are ALOT of work, and if you are not dedicated to the time to maintain that Working relationship, then maybe haveing a horse is not what is best for you and your family. Just my 2 cents... 

Lori


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Back to the original topic.....we've found that introducing geldings and mares has often resulted in "interest" from either (or both) horses. Even though the boys have been gelded, they still seem retain some of the receptors that were once hooked in to the reproduction section of their brain.  Not all geldings have any idea what to do with this information though! My new mare went into flaming heat after bringing her home and introducing into the herd with a gelding. He was like a 12 year old boy, though...he *liked* her..sometimes a lot, sometimes he chased her away, sometimes he ran away from her. Once I saw him try to mount her but he was sideways to her. And then....he found his hay again and sort of lost interest. It is spring and the first heat cycle of the year might be a little exciting to geldings but usually their interest wanes pretty quick.

A hot wire on the fence should help in the meantime, but more than likely he'll settle down in a few days.

With regard to having a pain in the butt horse...there are some options for you. I'd probably look to re-sell him, and this is a good time of year to do it. Just because he's young and untrained doesn't mean he's undesireable to everyone. Rather than lament about what should have or could have been done, sell him sooner than later. If he stands around for years he really will be undesireable to everyone. Groom him up and pull/trim his main, and get a few good pictures of him, be honest in your ad and be willing to take a loss. You'll be happier in the long run and so will he.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

Yeah, the comment about not wanting to spend hours a day working with the horse irked me, too. Why buy a horse if you don't intend to spend time with him daily? Heck, with all the stall cleaning, turn out, grooming and special feeding, I spend an hour a day at BARE minimum just providing for our two horses' basic needs. If I want to ride or lunge one or both of them, add another couple of hours. I have horses BECAUSE I want to spend time with them.


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

I get the impression she thought she was buying one of those rare gems that you can put in a pasture and ignore for months at a time, then throw the kids on and ride the hell out of for a day, then throw them back out in the pasture and ignore for another year or so.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

Honestly, he really doesn't sound that ill-mannered. Mary says he doesn't buck and is pretty mellow. The fact that he doesn't respond to an inexperienced KID rider who asks him to "whoa" or turn where she wants doesn't sound unfixable. But putting children or even inexperienced adults on less than solidly trained, bombproof horses is just a bad idea all around.


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

Yup. Someone to work with all of them for a just a little bit would probably do wonders. Takes a willingness to invest the effort though.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Well running the horse through the auction will certainly get shed of him although he likely won't bring much unless you take him to a registered sale and have all his paperwork in order. The lower end auctions may get you 100.00 - 200.00 then you have to pay the auction commission. Maybe you can sell him privately instead. A coggins is cheap if you haul in, maybe 50.00 -60.00 if the vet comes out.

Sorry that it didn't work out, perhaps if you post him on the barter board someone may want him. Likely he just needs handling and working with, any horse will become ill mannered if not worked with daily, even good old babysitter types learn they can get away with stuff and will try if not handled. My horses are handled every single day and ridden three to four days a week. Horses take a lot of time and if one can't expend the time and the effort to work with them, it is better to not have one unless it is just a pasture pet. They seem to do well with a routine and aren't real good about minding manners if they are left to their own devices out in a pasture for days at a time. 

As far as being a gelding, I've had several over the years and all except one would respond to a mare in flaming heat. Only lasts a few days and then all is back to normal and I hate to say it, but it usually is the mare that provokes the behavior. I've had geldings herd mares around, bite their hocks, mount them if they can, and all were properly gelded, but mares can be quite convincing when they want.

That's why most large ranches either keep all geldings or all mares and if they keep both, they keep them separated in different pastures. Just keeps things quieter all around.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

I'm still in the room. Those of y'all who are talking about me instead of with me are rude.

I came on to ask a simple question. Joshie asked me what it was I didn't like about the horse, other than my original question, and I tried to answer as simply as I could without going on and on. 

As mentioned at the start, I did take an experienced horse person with me, and have talked with experienced horse people about various problems as they have arisen. (I have, in fact, been on this forum talking about the horse. This is not my first time here.) Even when he could not be ridden, I walked him daily for awhile, "practicing whoa," and such. And yes, we did do research, not that it really is anyone's business how much time we have put into this or that.

Truth is, no, I did not know that a horse required so dang much work every single day, and yes, it has become quite tiresome doing the work with a horse whose personality I have just not been able to warm up to.

I have other animals and all the others together do not seem to need the attention of one horse. So maybe I am not cut out to be a "horse person." But the horse has not been neglected or mistreated. He is in very good shape. (No need for y'all to worry about "rescuing" him.)

If anyone wanted to be helpful, you might have suggested what would be the most reasonable approach to selling the horse. I do not feel obligated to keep him the rest of his life because y'all seem to think I should. (Or that I never had the right to try with a horse to begin with.)

Good grief. So much for this being a helpful forum.

Apologies to those of y'all who have, in fact, made helpful comments. Sorry I have gotten distracted by a few RUDE people.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

It's "rude" to say that inexperienced riders shouldn't buy green riding horses? It's rude to say that the horse should be given more of a chance? 

I'm sorry you got so offended, but this world is FULL of horses that need homes. If you have wanted a horse your whole life, why give up on the dream because it requires elbow grease and dollars?

I moved halfway across the country FOR my horses. I promised them when we bought a new farm that they would have pasture instead of dusty turnout. So that's what I went looking for. There may be life without horses, but I certainly hope to never see it.

2horses and I have posted from the perspective of women who feel deeply committed to the care of their horses. When horses are an integral part of one's life, it's hard to hear about yet another one who has been sold into a situation that will likely lead to a trip to the auction barn.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

mary said:


> I'm still in the room. Those of y'all who are talking about me instead of with me are rude.
> 
> I came on to ask a simple question. Joshie asked me what it was I didn't like about the horse, other than my original question, and I tried to answer as simply as I could without going on and on.
> 
> ...


I don't believe you should feel obligated to care for the horse for the rest of his life if it's simply not meant to be, and I certainly don't think you never had the right to try. 
But with the right to try comes the responsibility of rehoming the horse if things don't work out.

Please understand that dumping him through the auction will likely result in the horse ending up in a bad situation. I don't want you to feel guilty; instead feel dedicated to placing the horse in a new and better for him and better for you home.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I certainly understand your frustration because you're in over your head on this one. I think you simply expected different but a 4 - 5 yo horse is still trying to find their own identity and their personality is still developing and they're really no different than a human adolescent, some days they look like they have it all together and other days, it seems like aliens have taken over. 

You only have a few choices, you can run the horse through auction and cut your losses but he will need a coggins test and given his age, the fact that he's becoming fairly spoiled and the fact that nobody seems capable of having him sale ready, he'll likely end up with an order buyer. 

You can try and sell him privately (I think coggins rule still applies) and if he has conformation and someone finds he shows promise, you might sell him at a reasonable price but he is becoming spoiled and buyers want the sellers to 'show' the horse. Do you have someone who can do that for you? If so, this might be your best option but given the current horse market, don't expect a quick sale. 

You could also contact your local 4H club and see if someone is looking for a project horse. You'd be admitting the horse has issues and while you'll still likely take a financial hit, it might be the best option for the horse. 

You suggest Rescue is a dirty word but rescues take horses for a variety of reasons, not just negelect and perhaps you could contact the rescue 2horses previously mentioned and perhaps they would take him, give him some training and find him a good home. 

You suggest that we favour horses over people. I can't speak for all but I'm pretty confident most would agree that horses are our passion and for some, a lifestyle but none of us believe that horses have more rights than people, we simply believe that we are responsible for the stock in our care and a good match of horse and rider can truly benefit a young person in many ways.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

Well said, WR. 
Perhaps I feel particularly passionate about a topic such as this because I have in residence in my barn a horse that wasn't given much of a chance to be a good riding horse before I got him. He's almost 11 now and I've had him for a year. He was trained for the track as a youngster, then sold as a prospective show horse to a friend who ended up not having time for him. She waited to give up on owning him until several years had passed with him standing around doing a whole lot of nothing. As a result, I have spent hours and hours working him just to try to get him to the point that most 5 year old horses are at. He's a work in progress, and I'm dedicated to him, but it saddens me deeply that his chances in life were seriously limited by all that down time he spent. He's a great big horse and has some behavioral quirks that make him quite a challenge at times, and the thing is that those challenges would likely have been things corrected over a period of weeks, not years, if he had been trained properly and at the appropriate age.
For everyone who gives up on a horse, throws their hands up in the air and says "it's not my problem", there is someone like me or Sidepasser or 2horses or Bergere, etc. who has to be there to pick up the slack. If there isn't, the horse's life hangs precariously by a thread, with a great likelihood that he will end up slaughtered for meat or forgotten and wasting away in some back field somewhere.
I don't think there are many on this forum who would agree that "horses are just animals".


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## Shoupie (Mar 21, 2009)

Maybe you should trade him in for a nice quad, it always behaves exactly how you expect it, requires only fuel and oil not love and time, you can hop off it hot and leave it all alone in the garage for months.

I'm sorry you got stuck with a horse that wasn't what you expected but horses are animals and have minds of their own just like dogs or cats or any domestic animal you may have owned, and need consistent boundaries and attention. Also not even the most deadbroke childsafe horse in the world can teach your children how to be good horsemen. If you really want to give your kids the opportunity to ride find a local stable and have them take lessons.

As far as the horse goes please try and find him the best home possible, your children have no doubt become attached to this beast and by just throwing him into an auction your are teaching them a dangerous lesson that creatures are disposable.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

farmergirl, I kept my kids fed for a long time by buying those train wrecks, restoring and reselling or contract training redos. Time and patience goes a long ways. 

Shoupie, don't be so sure about those Japanese Quarter Horses, my dad had been riding and training for well over 50 years and the wost he's ever been hurt was riding one of them for a neighbour lady. He got bucked off bad, spent a couple nights in hospital and 3 surgeries to rebuild his shoulder. The same beast bucked the test pilot off and he needed new front teeth and mom had to sell a lot of horses to come up with $6000.00.


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

Mary, I'll admit I did react emotionally to several of your posts, and perhaps derailed the topic a bit. The truth is I'm really sorry that it did not work out with this horse for you, and I'm sorry for you, your kids, and the horse. All of us on here who are passionate about our animals relish the time and effort we expend on them, and sometimes it's hard to realize that's just not the case for everyone. 

I am on another forum that has tons of members from around the state. If you'll let me know where you live (pm me if you'd rather not put it out publicly), I'd be happy to see if I can find someone in your area that would be willing to help you rehome your horse.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> I've never heard of nor experienced such a thing. What part of the cycle?


While she's menstruating geldings sometimes show an unusual interest in women.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Mary, it sounds like you're just frustrated. I didn't think anyone was rude. They're just trying to understand your situation. People aren't talking about you... they're wondering about your situation. It's not an expected thing to wait for a response from the OP after each post.

We have two five year old geldings. We purchased one of them at age three. He was for our daughter who was ten at the time. Actually, we didn't purchase him. Our trainer did. He was boarded with the trainer for a year and a half. We got our other gelding last summer (at age 4). He was from a friend and we'd never seen him before he came to us. He was boarded with our trainer for six months. 

We moved from a beautiful, 5400 sq ft suburban house with 2 1/2 acres to a tiny, not quite 1200 sq ft farm house for our horses. We now have 27 acres. Ten acres are in hay. 

Our boys were in the dry lot over the winter. They've been in the pasture over the last couple of weeks (except this weekend.... stupid snow). We've not had to spend tons of time taking care of their basic needs but we do need to work with them daily. We need to get a round pen in this spring. Round penning and other ground work is awfully important for horses. It helps them to realize that you're the alpha horse and they are not. 

My daughter was ten and very passive when she started riding. She's now 12 and can boss around a 1200 lb animal. She does not hesitate to punch/hit her boy, who she absolutely adores. She has to be able to be forceful with him if he misbehaves. One has to be able to push a horse out of your space. A horse can kill you.

Has your daughter taken real horse lessons? By that I mean has she been shown horsey language? Horse parts? How to lead a horse? How to go down a hill or cross water? Back up? Go around a tree? Do an emergency stop? Do ground work?

People on this board do tend to become upset when people speak of selling a horse into an auction rather than trying to fix a manageable problem. Good horses can lose their lives because they were sold at auction. Your horse sounds like a good horse. Too bad you're not in IL. I'm looking for another horse. 

I understand that you're frustrated and defensive. Please understand that the responses that offended you were also due to frustration. 

Horses are animals, not people. They are certainly not more valuable than humans. They are, though, intelligent animals and they need love and attention. Please don't feel bad or guilty. It sounds like horses need more than you can give. It's for this reason that I have always thought that people should board their first horse for at least a year. You can get an idea of the work involved in horse ownership while your horse gets the care it needs.

There is no such thing as a bomb proof horse. A horse will not teach you how to ride. A horse will take advantage of your lack of knowledge. One should never purchase a horse before one takes pretty extensive lessons. It will likely be a disaster. 

Plow reining is far safer than neck reining. One should know how to plow (direct) rein long before one neck reins. Neck reining, IMO, is highly overrated. If you don't know how to plow rein you're not likely to be proficient at neck reining. 

I think you and your horse would be best served by giving him to an experienced family. The fact that teenagers are able to ride a horse does not provide evidence that a horse is novice safe. My goodness, by the time my daughter gets to her mid-teens she'll be an experienced horsewoman.


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## Michgranny (Sep 9, 2008)

I feel a need to post as I am an older (50s) first time horse owner for 3 years as of today.

I had always wanted a horse since I was a child, on my 50th birthday I decided to reward myself and went horse shopping. I finally found a 12 year old mare, well trained trail horse. I rode her all over and gave small children lead line rides in the yard. I must say that I love my time cleaning stalls, brushing and feeding.

Two months ago, someone begged me to take her 5 year old Arabian gelding for free. He had no training, never out of his small paddock. I was not interested, but she insisted I would love him if I seen him. Then proceeded to tell me he would starve because she had no more hay and no money.

She was right, he was the calmest, sweetest horse I had ever seen. He followed me around and kept nodding his head as if to say, please take me home.

Went home and got the trailer, he turned into an OMG whats happening to me horse. We finally got him out of the paddock and into the the trailer, he was scared to death. It took almost 2 hours, I knew he was way to much horse for me to handle alone.

I found a lady close to my home to come and help me once a week for $20. She is a God send, she raises and trains barrel horses. After 2 lessons with the gelding she told me my mare was a spoiled brat. Needless to say, I am now getting lessons with both.

The morel of my long story is, I was slowly ruining my well trained mare and did not even realize it. I just thought she was getting old and cranky!

It is not taking me hours a day to work with 2 horses, a lot of it is your body language while doing chores. I do spend an hour 3 times a week practicing what I learned at our lesson.

Just wanted to add my new scary Arabian gelding was wearing a tarp this week! I am so proud of him and myself.

Thanks for reading,
Denise


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

bergere said:


> Mecca, the Arabian gelding I had,, loved mares and did everything a stallion did but get foals.
> Over the years I have met more geldings like them, than what I think a gelding should be acting like.


This has been my experience, too. Two of my 4 geldings will mount mares that let them.  And they'll _all_ do the lip-curl thing. 



> There is no such thing as a bomb proof horse. A horse will not teach you how to ride. A horse will take advantage of your lack of knowledge.


I disagree. 
I think a good, "bomb proof" (this part is true. No horse is fail-safe. It's not possible) can indeed teach one to ride. 
HOWEVER, you need to have a more experience rider around on a regular basis to catch _both_ of you when you're doing something wrong. 



> Geldings often show interest when a woman is having her cycle.


I don't know about "often" but I _do_ know it's sure not a wive's tale! DH's old gelding used to act up when I rode him, but _only_ once a month. He's the only one we've ever had that did it, but I know _exactly_ what caused the problem. lol


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## deineria (Aug 22, 2009)

> Truth is, I've been sorry I bought him almost ever since I brought him home, and need to think of a way to just get shed of him. <snip>
> I'm leaning toward just sending him through auction and taking my losses.
> This may be our first and last horse


The above is very, very sad. But it happens with puppies, kittens, etc, etc . . .day in and day out. Honestly, you will probably feel like this with any horse, no matter how he acts. Also, horses and animals "know" and pick up on this type of attitude ASAP. This is probably why he act towards you as he does. . .well, that and horses know inexperience when they encounter it.

But to address the question, some gelding do act like this. . .I've never seen one act like a stallion, but they will often show a "LOT" of interest. I haven't found one to be dangerous.

This horse doesn't sound ill manner or ill trained. A 4 year old horse that novice children can ride is NOT a dangerous animal, not a ill mannered animal, etc. He need more work, but I have rarely encountered a 4 year old horse that didn't, that is, unless he came from a professional trainer from foal on up.

At least give him some care when getting "rid" of him and see if as rescue might take him. A horse broke well enough for novices to ride might be taken in quickly if they aren't overflowing already, though most are. I do equine rescue, and so I hope you give him a chance at a good new home.


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## malinda (May 12, 2002)

Joshie said:


> While she's menstruating geldings sometimes show an unusual interest in women.



This is an old wives tale perpetuated by people who did not think women should be handling horses. If it were true, and horses could not distinguish between species, then logically men would be seen as another stallion and "a threat". It's about the same as the old belief that women were not able to and should not ever fly in an airplane because her anatomy differs from a man's.

I work with 6-12 horses 5-6 days a week (not including my own gelding, stallion, and mares), and most horses are owned and/or handled by women. There is no substantiation to the claim that they show "interest" or act any different for a woman during any part of her cycle.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

malinda said:


> This is an old wives tale perpetuated by people who did not think women should be handling horses. If it were true, and horses could not distinguish between species, then logically men would be seen as another stallion and "a threat". It's about the same as the old belief that women were not able to and should not ever fly in an airplane because her anatomy differs from a man's.


I've never heard either of these wives tales! But with regard to horses showing *interest* in a human, that would be quite bizarre. And if there were any truth to this, it would seem more reasonable to believe that male horses would show more interest in a human when she was ovulating, not menstruating....why would an animal show *interest* in any animal other than when they are sexually receptive?

That being said, however, I am sure that horses and many other animals can notice different smells on people through out the course of their natural cycles, not to mention what they had for lunch and what they are cooking for dinner. But that doesn't mean anything other than that their sense of smell is far greater than ours.


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## fetch33 (Jan 15, 2010)

Joshie said:


> While she's menstruating geldings sometimes show an unusual interest in women.



That is weird... no one is fertile while menstruating. I've had geldings a long time, never noticed the connection!

Edited to say I should read to the end of the thread before commenting... LOL


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

Mary,
If you're still reading and we haven't chased you away, where in the state of Texas are you? If you are nearby Austin, I would be happy to put the word out that you have a horse that needs a new home. If you didn't pay alot for the horse, it shouldn't be that hard to get most or all of what you paid for him back when you sell him. Also, it would be very smart to contact the original seller and let them know it's not working out. I very seldom sell my horses, but on the few occasions that I have, I have always made the buyer sign a "first right of refusal" agreement. This means that the buyer must first offer the horse to me to buy if they ever decide to sell it. 

If you have photos that you can post here, we can all try to better help you find him a suitable home.

I'm sorry that our passionate responses came off as rude or insulting to you. That was certainly not the intention.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

offthegrid said:


> I've never heard either of these wives tales! But with regard to horses showing *interest* in a human, that would be quite bizarre.


I wouldn't call it "interest" personally so much as "reaction." 
And I've only known one horse who did it, but I'm pretty sure no one had told him the wives' tale.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Most horses I have worked with are boys.. my three are all boys. I've never noticed any reaction. Two of them are studs (one is a yearling though). 

Try to find some fool like me who would take a project for a good price. That way he can have a chance at a useful life.


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## saanengirl (Apr 7, 2009)

Some animals do appear to show interest when women are menstruating, but I think that is more because we smell different rather than any interest of "that type..." Animals are more sensitive than people to different odors, and anything different in the way we smell will be of interest to animals.


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