# Important Document Storage Question



## spiffydave (Mar 19, 2008)

I'm wondering what people suggest regarding storage of documents like passports, birth certificates, property titles, car titles, etc.

I've considered a "fire-proof" safe, but after talking to some local firefighters they cast a lot of doubt on whether any reasonably priced safe would protect anything.

I've talked to people about freezer storage, but I don't have a big chest freezer and the firefighters also doubted that strategy.

I'm now considering using a safe deposit box at my local bank. It's about 5 minutes from my house and the cost is around $40 a year.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Opinions? Personal experiences?


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## RichieC (Aug 29, 2007)

I am on my town's volunteer fire department. I can tell you from direct experience and personal observation that "fire proof" safes and freezers are not, in fact, fireproof. I have placed my hand right through what should have been the side of a freezer, and found nothing inside that was even recognizably food. And I have seen safes that turned out to be full of nothing but fine ash, and a gun safe full only of lock and barrels (the stocks had burned away.)

I recommend the safe deposit box.


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2008)

Except that being in a bank it may well be inaccessible to you at a time that you really need those papers. You access safe deposit boxes at the bank's convenience, not yours.

A fire-proof safe in an outbuilding perhaps. Make copies of important papers and store them outside of the house at least.

.....Alan.


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## spiffydave (Mar 19, 2008)

A.T. Hagan said:


> Except that being in a bank it may well be inaccessible to you at a time that you really need those papers. You access safe deposit boxes at the bank's convenience, not yours.


That was my concern about this option.



A.T. Hagan said:


> A fire-proof safe in an outbuilding perhaps. Make copies of important papers and store them outside of the house at least.


I'm in suburbia, so no outbuildings larger than my compost bin.

Any good third option?


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## RichieC (Aug 29, 2007)

How likely are you to need your passport before the next business day?

You should have copies. I have copies of all of that stuff in my file cabinet. But I can tell you from personal experience that getting a passport replaced is a pain in the toukus.

Fire-proof safes - aren't.


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

Thinking laterally here - and I've only just had this idea so haven't really thought it through but.........if you want fireproof storage, why not buy a small pot-bellied stove and fit it with false piece of stovepipe in a spare room. If it is good enough to keep fire in, it SHOULD keep fire out, and I don't imagine your average thief is going to poke around in a stove looking for goodies?

Just a thought

hoggie


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Most of the fire safes are fire resistant. A true fireproof safe is expensive and is only fireproof for a specific period of time. You need to know how long its safe. I would make sure I have copies, even if not legal copies of all documents. Keep the orginal in the safest place you can afford, safe deposit boxes are not that expensive.


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

buy a small 3.5 or there abouts cubic foot old no longer working refrigerator from a yard sale or ????

dig a hole in the yard and bury it or build a mound over it, partially bury it and mound some dirt over it! leave the door exposed or not... in a water proof ammo container, place at least copies of your important papers. Put container in refrigerator and lock or seal with silicone if in a wet area. 

If you are creative? build a nice brick or block box to contain your small refrigerator, place a BBQ on top or next to it.. use the top for a table. Make it large enough you can put a trash can in front but slipped inside. the refrigerator behind. There are some very creative things you can do.

A pretty planter? one on each side of a gate? part of your fencing structure? 

If a refrigerator is too large, weld up a steel box or use a mail box. The idea would be to keep it waterproof since it is away from any thing that would burn.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Make copies to keep at home. Put the originals in the safe deposit box. 

When you use the passport, you'll usually plan the trip with enough time to go to the bank and pick it up. You won't need titles, deeds, etc. unless you sell the property so they don't need to be kept at hand for instant access. It's rare that anyone will sell a vehicle or land on the spur of the moment without having time to pick up the paperwork. 

If banks go under, someone will buy them out or you'll be notified of a time limit to empty your box. My bank sold out several years ago. I was given the choice to stay with the new bank or transfer to another branch. Even with a run on a bank, you can probably contact someone who will give you access to your box.


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## LvDemWings (Sep 11, 2005)

My father and I were talking about the very thing a few weeks ago. He suggested a private vault. It is similar to a safe deposit box but not at a bank. A peek in your yellow pages might give you a few places to look.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Copies unless cert conformed copies are worthless. I know this to be true. We lost doc and could come up with copies from schools and doctors ect but those have not met the requirements to prove facts in some of the cases we deal with. 

I did so adopt a Native child. The CC copies were lost when we lost our home. I have the copies but the record is sealed. My name was never added to the birth cert thus my son can NOT meet the requirement to get a passport and travel on a church mission trip due to Homeland Sec. rules. Both parents listed on the birth cert MUST sign to allow the child to travel and get a passport. With out the CC copies in hand it is not allowed. His mother is back in jail and she not I must request for a Notary and she can not find the time even in Jail to do so.

I strongly now believe that cc copies of important papers stored at more than one location is the way to go.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

I distrust safe deposit boxes for several reasons. First, when my FIL passed away he left my husband as his executor. Hubby was cleaning out his dad's things when sis in law arrived. She found the safe deposit key and had it cleaned out before hubby even knew she had the key. The bank realized they made a mistake in letting her into the safe deposit box when hubby appeared with the court document naming hubby as executor. They shut up and refused to show hubby the sign in sheet showing the date and signature of SIL's visit. Then they destroyed the docs so they weren't available when subpoenaed. Hubby found out about SIL's theft when the teller that let her in mentioned it to Hubby. They had been high school friends.

I saw a show on HGTV where people bought a building that was once a bank and turned it into a home. The vault was still intact. They started drilling open the safe deposit boxes and showing the coins and jewelry they were finding in there. Apparently notifications were sent out to the box holders and anyone who didn't show up for their valuables lost them. Also, if your estate papers are in disarray after you die, your family may never even know the box exists. In California the contents will eventually be turned over to the State, and have tremendous requirements of proof of ownership and a great deal of time to prove it.

We have a fireproof gun safe, taller than me. Bought it the last day of a gun show for $400.00. I don't remember the original price, but we got a significant discount, and the guy who sold it to us didn't have to mess with loading it up and hauling it back to the shop.


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## RichieC (Aug 29, 2007)

hoggie said:


> Thinking laterally here - and I've only just had this idea so haven't really thought it through but.........if you want fireproof storage, why not buy a small pot-bellied stove and fit it with false piece of stovepipe in a spare room. If it is good enough to keep fire in, it SHOULD keep fire out, and I don't imagine your average thief is going to poke around in a stove looking for goodies?
> 
> Just a thought
> 
> hoggie


And just as a stove if placed too close to a wall will set it alight through convection, so to a fire (say a typical room and contents fire at roughly 1800 degrees F) will set anything within the stove on fire.

Creative thought, but no dice.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

I think the idea of disguising a storage unit (small frig or whatever) in the back yard is a good one. I may do that, although we do have a pump house that I could also use. But, the pump house has electricity in it and could burn down, too. 

Kathleen


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## no hurry (Mar 16, 2008)

There were a lot of discussions about such things after Hurricaine Katrina among my friends and neighbors in Biloxi,MS.

We decided the best back up was copies (certified if needed) at a freind/relative's home in another region. In a flood, youd probably loose what was in the burried fridge. No safe deposit box fee. Highly unlikely both sets would get desrtoyed if one was at your home and the other in a house a few states away. For items that you need/want, but that you dont need a certified copy (like that photo of great grandma) scan them and burn CDs and mail those to your relative too.


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## spiffydave (Mar 19, 2008)

Excellent suggestions all. Thanks for the great ideas.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

LvDemWings said:


> My father and I were talking about the very thing a few weeks ago. He suggested a private vault. It is similar to a safe deposit box but not at a bank.


Now were back to the original problem. It needs to be fireproof or its worthless.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Common Tator said:


> I distrust safe deposit boxes for several reasons. First, when my FIL passed away he left my husband as his executor. Hubby was cleaning out his dad's things when sis in law arrived. She found the safe deposit key and had it cleaned out before hubby even knew she had the key. The bank realized they made a mistake in letting her into the safe deposit box when hubby appeared with the court document naming hubby as executor. They shut up and refused to show hubby the sign in sheet showing the date and signature of SIL's visit. Then they destroyed the docs so they weren't available when subpoenaed. Hubby found out about SIL's theft when the teller that let her in mentioned it to Hubby. They had been high school friends.


Who the executor of someone estate is and who has access to the safe deposit box are not the same thing. THe only requirement to get access to a safe deposit box is the key. I can hand you a key to my box and you can get into it. As for letting your husband see the sign in list, ITs really none of his business who on the list. Even if he is the executor. If the items were taken then call the police, I am sure the SIL would simply say it was empty and you have little proof otherwise in many cases.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

I've not had much faith in safe deposit boxes. Here's why:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Banking/FinancialPrivacy/P41893.asp

The bank may have seen you make a deposit last week. This week, some knucklehead calls your home or an old phone number and gets no answer. You name goes on a list of abandoned property - attempst have been made to contact owner. No response.

Next week, the contents are auctioned off.

Six months later you come back to find the lock had been drilled. The bank is only obliged to give you face value, assuming you inventoried and registered everything. Family heirlooms will get you garage sale prices. Documents. Ha!


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## RichieC (Aug 29, 2007)

BillHoo said:


> I've not had much faith in safe deposit boxes. Here's why:
> 
> http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Banking/FinancialPrivacy/P41893.asp
> 
> ...


That linked article in no way supports what you type in the body of your post.

In general, if you don't want your box to be declared abandoned, it is a VERY good idea to pay your box rental.


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

RichieC said:


> And just as a stove if placed too close to a wall will set it alight through convection, so to a fire (say a typical room and contents fire at roughly 1800 degrees F) will set anything within the stove on fire.
> 
> Creative thought, but no dice.


Ah ok - nil points then 

back to the drawing board 

hoggie


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## Ninn (Oct 28, 2006)

Do you have outbuildings that are not electrified? Can you build a false wall or trap door in the floor? Get certified copies of EVERYTHING important, put them in a waterproof container inside a small safe and put that in the space. Theoretically, you could even do this inside one of those huge terracotta plant holders that you place at the end of the driveway. Just bury the box inside it. If you fill it halfway up with empty tin cans or something first, the dirt and safe box won't be too heavy to move or tip over should the need arise. Just my thoughts.


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