# Big Bore/Small Bore Air Rifle for SHTF



## Silvercreek Farmer (Oct 13, 2005)

I was mulling this one around and did quite a bit of research that I though I might share. Sorry if it has already been covered, but I couldn't find much in a search.

At first glance the idea of a air/pellet rifle for SHTF game getting sounded great. If you could make your own pellets, you could have nearly unlimited reloading with no worry about powder, primers, cases.

There are some amazing big bore (.357, .40, .45, .50, ect) air rifles on the market which are shooting BIG (300 grain+) bullets (can't really call them pellets) at very respectable velocities (900+ FPS) that are capable of taking hogs, deer ect. There is even an account of a bison being killed with 2 shots from one of these powerful air rifles. The bullets are castable and could easily be made from tire weights, fired bullets, ect. Making ammo supply easy. The problem is though, that these guns are normally filled with extremely high pressure air (2500-4000 psi) that comes from scuba tanks, a compressor, or a manual pump (similar to a tire pump). For SHTF all but the manual pump would be off the table. Here's the kicker, the manual pump requires around 100 pumps to create the pressure required to fire the weapon 4-6 times as well as quite a bit of effort which would be no fun if one were sick or injured. It would probably take a grand just to get in on an entry level big bore setup. These rifles are quieter than a "powder" rifle, but are still pretty loud (think tire blowout). The cost and time required to "reload" pretty much ruled the big bores out for me.

Given these limitations, I refocused my attention on the small bore (.177, .22) air rifles driven by large springs. These rifles have the ability to shoot small pellets (approx 5-20 grains) at respectable velocities ranging from 600-1500 fps) with only a single cock of the spring mechanism. The better ones still require around 25-60 lbs of cocking effort which may be too much for a smaller woman/teenager. However, even the best small bore rifles only pack around 25 ft lbs of energy, which would be inadequate for taking deer size game (a perfect close range ear/eye shot might do it but would be pretty touchy). Where these rifles shine is in small game. They can reliably kill rabbits, squirrels, pigeons, doves ect. all while being quieter than .22lr bulk ammo (which tends to be high velocity creating a supersonic "crack" when fired) but no where near silent. Unfortunately, the pellets appear pretty difficult to hand produce. The "skirt" on the pellet is essential to velocity and accuracy and it takes pretty expensive multistage swaging (rather than casting) to make decently accurate small bore pellets. On the other hand, factory pellets can be had for somewhere between 25%-50% of what bulk .22LR costs and could be stock piled and transported easily. A decent rifle can be had from many common retailers for under $200. Given the economics, it may be reasonable to keep one of these rifles, with a few thousand pellets, on hand for smaller table fare, but I wouldn't really consider handmade ammo a good choice unless one had no other option.


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## rags57078 (Jun 11, 2011)

don't forget the .177 size also shoots BB's , there is some of those smaller ones that have alot of power , if you want bigger game use snares you can buy them premade for around a buck ea


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

I've been looking at them for a while. I think i would stick with the .177 or .22. 
A good Youtube channel is *gunner17722* Rhe guy is English. He has good videos and he really explains things in an understandable way and has some good rabbit hunting vids on there.
http://www.youtube.com/user/gunner17722

Some air rifle sites:
http://www.topairgun.com/
http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/
http://***.pyramydair.com/


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## Gary in AL (Jul 8, 2002)

You mentioned the "crack" of a .22. When I was a kid we used to take a small frozen orange juice can fill it with fine steel wool, duct tape it to the end of the barrel shoot a couple of rounds to open a passage and wah lah no crack and fairly quiet. We did realize that we needed to have a scope with tall mounts to see over the can or I guess you could just buy the sub-sonic .22's. Gary


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> don't forget the .177 size also shoots BB's


You can ruin a good pellet rifle shooting STEEL BB's in it.

BB's are meant to be shot from smoothbore guns, and any gun "made to shoot both" won't shoot either one well


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> When I was a kid we used to take a small frozen orange juice can fill it with fine steel wool, duct tape it to the end of the barrel shoot a couple of rounds to open a passage and wah lah no crack and fairly quiet


That's a federal felony


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Air rifles are OK IF you keep the ranges around 30-40 yds.
Much farther than that and you won't get those "reliable" kills

If you push velocities much above 900 FPS, you'll usually start to lose accuracy and increase noise levels.

You need to shoot a LOT of different pellets to see which you gun prefers before you buy huge amounts

Some brands may shoot 1/2 groups at 30 yds, while with others you may be lucky to hit a sheet of paper.

There are LOTS of variations in pellet shapes, weights, and even sizes within calibers.

Here's a good site for some reading:

http://www.blueline-studios.com/kuengairguns.com/talk.html

Here are some of the different pellets available:

http://www.airgunhome.com/pages/pelletspecs.html

Airguns are fun to shoot, and CAN kill some small game, but I would hate to bet my life on one for survival if I could use a REAL 22 instead


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I forgot to add, if I WERE going to depend on an airgun for killing game, I'd get at least a 22 Cal, since the *heavier* pellets deliver more energy


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Seems like all gun threads go with "Should I get THIS or THAT"

Truth is no gun for all occassions.

.177 for small rodentia

.22 for small game (rabbits-sized)

As someone else said, snares and traps for bigger animals.

Firearms (take your pick) when you need fast, portable power.

Good excuse to get a nice gun rack or vault!


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

When I was a kid I took many many rabbits and squirrels with a .177 caliber pellets rifle.


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## Gary in AL (Jul 8, 2002)

Bearfoot,
About the orange juice can & steel wool. That was nearly 45 years ago and kids playing.
Gary


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> About the orange juice can & steel wool. That was nearly 45 years ago and kids playing


I just wanted to make sure everyone is *aware* of the legalities.

The ATF views things seriously.

In many countries, supressors are not only LEGAL, but they encourage their use


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

22 cal air rifles that get a pellet to 900 fps are good for small game 

22 lr rifles like you said have issues of you need ammo but if you stock up now it is sure less expensive than finding a good pellet rifle that can go as much or more than a 22 rifle 

how about a cast 22cal bullet fired from you primary rifle but at lower speed , it is very possible to cast 22 cal bullets for a 223 and get them down to 22lr to 22 mag velocities they can even be reloaded for nearly the same price as 22lr ammo as they use very little powder but you would need to stock up on primers , they are also very easy on brass and can be reloaded many many times.
check out the mold made by lee sold from mid south shooter supply in their custom molds section

the same thing can be done with light cast bullets in most cartridges a 32 cal pistol bullet can be sized and loaded in a 7.62x39 or 54 as can round balls 
gallery loads were common in the late 18 hundreds and early 19 hundreds often they were just a 00 buck pellet loaded in a 30 cal case with a tiny it of powder so they could be shot inside 15-25 yard performance was quite accurate 

some have had some luck with a 22 pellet pellet propelled by only a primer inserted into the neck of a 223 brass not sure what accuracy looks like with these but the times i have read about it the person was very impressed with how fast that pellet was moving and how much it penetrated the makes shift back stop they had made for it 



they also make converters that allow 22 rim fire ammo to be used in a 22 cal center fire rifle some are a converter that looks like that cartridge that unscrews and a singe 22lr round is loaded in then the hole thing is chambered in the rifle and shot then removed unscrewed and reloaded 

then you are carrying 1 rifle that can do dual purpose


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

Iâve got an RWS Mod 36 that I set up for off-hand practice with a front sight that uses the same apertures as my silhouette rifles. It launches .177 pellets at about 1100 FPS and Iâve killed a bunch of garden raiding bunnies with it.


Chuck


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## wingnut64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Gary in AL said:


> Bearfoot,
> About the orange juice can & steel wool. That was nearly 45 years ago and kids playing.
> Gary


I think most people realize that, and thank goodness when WE were kids, the G-men were busy worrying about more important things than kids with a .22.

Air rifles aren't firearms, though. But in case anyone is interested I found this link.
http://www.pyramydair.com/article/Airgun_silencers_What_s_the_big_deal_August_2006/32
After reading it I'm not so sure that the ATF wouldn't try and claim the suppressor you had for an air rifle wasn't illegal, too. They conveniently haven't made a ruling on them and if they can say in court it COULD be used on a firearm, it's off to prison you go.
The history and aggressiveness of federal "revenoors" is well known.

In a SHTF situation, however, I would be doing whatever I thought was necessary to be safe and well fed. The less anybody hears, the better.


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## NJ Rich (Dec 14, 2005)

No, I didn't read all the post on your thread.

I bought a .22 Stoeger Air Rifle. I will take small game which is usually more available than larger game. The pellets are not expensive and the shot is almost unheard two hundred feet away.

After the Great Depression some areas of the country had almost no deer left. One state, and I don't remember which one, imported deer from other states to replenish the almost totally depleted deer population. Stay with small game an you may eat more on a daily basis than an occasional harvested deer.


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## paddymurphy (May 23, 2008)

While I have a pellet rifle for the little one and it will take small game in a pinch, I do not plan around it. To me it is a compromise and as such not the best solution.

For $160 or so you can buy 4400 rounds of 22 all day long at walmart. While somewhat quiter than a 22lr (depending on ammo) they are not silent.

Snares work on small game as well as big, and are quietter.

Bows solve the ammo problem rather well especially for small game. A piece of 38 brass over an arrow can take small game.

Also, the large caliber airguns are rather loud and the cheap ones start around $500. IIRC the low end Quackenbush start out around $800 or $900. In that price range a crossbow might be better (If you don't want to learn longbow/horsebow/bow with training wheels).

JMHO YMMV


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

A bow is even MORE limited in range than most airguns, and arrows are EXPENSIVE.

The average person would starve if they had to depend on bow kills to survive

Some may say "Arrows are reusable", but reality is they will most likely be lost or damaged beyond repair very quickly


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

A very good slingshot can be deadly on small game. Quite and ammo is dirt cheap.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Not long ago I bought a Gamo "Silent Cat", .22 cal. 950 fps. Although not really silent, the suppressor (legal) does cut the noise down to where all you hear is the spring. From about 50 yards it's nearly silent. Comes with a fair scope, and shoots about 1" at 40 yards. I'm very satisfied for the money, less than $250.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Not long ago I bought a Gamo "Silent Cat", .22 cal. 950 fps. Although not really silent, the suppressor (legal) does cut the noise down to where all you hear is the spring. From about 50 yards it's nearly silent. Comes with a fair scope, and shoots about 1" at 40 yards. I'm very satisfied for the money, less than $250.


What kind of pellets are you using?


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Good summary Silvercreek Farmer.

I believe (like most here do) that belt and suspenders is the way to go if at all possible.

Therefore, I have several .22 rimfires and about 25,000 rounds of ammo from 40gr at 1,400 fps (Aguila Interceptor HP) to sub-sonics...along with slingshots, air guns, bows, traps, snares....not to mention the big stuff.

If I were limited to only one option for SHTF, I would supress a 22 rimfire and make do. That scenario should only happen though if I am forced to move rapidly and can't take everything with me.


Tim


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

I bought a .22 pellet conversion from SG for 21.00--uses a .223/5.56 shell with a shotgun primer for use in a rifle/AR....works good and will kill a rabbit at 50yds...


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

BFF, I'm using Premier, hollow points, from Walmart. If memory serves, 500 count tin for about $4.50. At 40 yards they bury up completely into 1/2" plywood. Should do well for squirrels & rabitts.


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

Air rifles are effective on sitting ducks or Canada geese as well, particularly head shots. They are great for urban survival as well, for feral pigeons, seagulls if you're desperate, the aforementioned waterfowl, roof rabbits and toy dogs, rabbits on parkland and wasteland, all with minimal noise.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Ozarks Tom said:


> BFF, I'm using Premier, hollow points, from Walmart. If memory serves, 500 count tin for about $4.50. At 40 yards they bury up completely into 1/2" plywood. Should do well for squirrels & rabitts.


Here's a calculator to figure energy and trajectories:

http://www.airguns.net/trajectory.php

This database gives info on different brands/weights of pellets:

http://www.photosbykev.com/wordpress/userfiles/pelletdata.htm

It's fun to play with, and it's surprising how much the trajectory changes over 100 yds


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