# corn at feed stores



## GlenArden (Feb 8, 2011)

OK, I am very confused. I've heard that corn at feed stores is safe for human consumption. I've also heard that it is not safe for human consumption. I've heard it has been treated with pesticides. Opinions?


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## Rosepath (Feb 18, 2011)

Well, it depends on your definition of safe. I asked our local (now out of business) feed mill to grind up a feed mixture for my dairy goats, and told him I didn't want any grains that had been treated in the mixture. He said, it's all treated with malathion for bugs.
Nope, says I, not what I want my goats to eat. "YOU eat malathion," he said, "it's in everything!"
He's probably right, and I know the corn is treated to prevent it being eaten up by bugs at the mill. There are places to buy corn for grinding your own cornmeal, but organic would be the only version I'd trust to not be sprayed with pesticides.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I imagine some mills use malathion... most don't, at least the ones I get my feed from. If they do, their malathion ain't worth diddly, as I still get weevils.

I'd be more worried about aflotoxin levels in feed store corn.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Just because they CAN use pesticides doesn't mean they do.

Most often the pesticides are applied to the bins when they are empty

Many pesticides are not allowed on grain for human consumption anyway.

The biggest difference is animal feeds aren't subjected to as much testing and cleaning before packaging


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

I would find you a local farmer or two and avoid the elevator or mill or feed store myself.
buy right at harvest. he can tell you how it was grown and anything else you may like to know about it. once its at the elevator hard to say who's it was or how they grew it.

I would assume that feed is more times then not untreated, where as seed is little different.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Farmers around here mostly use treated seeds; and I wouldn't want to take any chances with my family's health by grinding that produce up for human consumption.

I am looking for "organically grown" grains.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Farmers around here mostly use* treated seeds*


Seed corn isn't marketed for feed anyway, and the treatments contain dyes to make it obvious it's not edible


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

I bought some treated seed a few years back and it was pink.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

The kind of dent field corn raised today has a nasty off taste when made into corn meal compared to older varieties. Whether chemicals were used on it or not, it just is not good tasting. I've tasted it in the field while it was being harvested, had the organic version too and it wasnt any better. Notice the products that use this corn for human consumption are highly processed with "natural flavorings", they obviously couldnt depend on the natural whole grain taste, cause its just frankly lousy... 

If you want to buy some kind of bulk commercial corn to make cornmeal, suggest you buy popcorn. Commercial popcorn not greatest stuff, but it tastes better than the modern dent field corn. If you can get it, probably the red or blue dent corn sold to grind for tortilla flour would be best bet. Its still OP far as I know.

Still best of all to raise you a patch of some old OP variety corn that you like flavor of for your human consumption. True good flavor is just not a priority in any modern agricultural product. Both producer and the middlemen all want artificial prettiness, uniformity, and cheap as possible, they think artificial flavor can be added later if necessary. Its all about highest production at lowest input cost to maximize profit no matter what. Flavor? we dont need no stinkin flavor.....


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

If you go to grow your own for corn meal, Jonny's carries Northstine Dent an old time not-productive-enough-for-commercial-growers OP flavorful corn. I grow it and you are going to get one ear per stalk with a short season dry down maturity of under 100 days.

Now if you want an OP FLOUR corn, I have seed to sell for Mandan Bride..also a short season OP that has a nice white soft flour when ground. It is a multi-color corn that grinds to a soft shade of pinkish. One, maybe 2 ears per 6 ft stalk. I have seen this listed for use as cornmeal but I would not use for that..grinds to flour not meal.

Otherwise, Shumways has a large selection of "field corns"...


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Only one caveat with getting corn from a farmer... does he have a lot, I mean a LOT??? on hand? If so, Why does he? 

You get your corn from a farmer, it'd best be a neighbor, that you can trust. Buy from Billy Bob an hour away, and you might be helping him get rid of corn he can't sell to any broker or mill, because of aflotoxins or other concerns. My uncle got royally reamed about ten years back, by 'saving' 20$/ton and getting from a farmer over in Louisiana, with his own delivery truck. We were all in Elk Camp in CO, and my cous called and said the corn was bad (he'd just got a silo full the week before). The moisture was too high, and the silo fan systems weren't keeping up with the heat... long story short, Uncle and Aunt had to drive home (losing 1K in permits, 1k in other expenses) and unload the entire silo, and dump it in a gully... it was rotting in the bin, and smoking when he got er out.

He's also got smart on having independent aflotoxin tests before taking delivery of loads (two tractor trailer loads).

Trust is mighty important... Personally, my trust level is less with folks I don't know... when I have to spend a couple thousand bucks, my trust radar is in full power mode. I can smell mold, and see trash and dust... can't see aflotoxins...


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

I buy corn, barley and oats from farmers. 

It has not been sprayed with nothing.

It does not have the Federal required level of rodent and bugs parts per million to be allowed to be labeled as 'food-grade'. 

Seed grain is grain that has been sprayed with fungicide. No farmer is spraying grain with fungicide.

The only reason for spraying pesticide on grain would be if you expected that grain to sit in a warehouse or ship somewhere for months before some corporation processed it.

If you buy from a farmer, ask him what he sprayed on his field.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

motdaugrnds said:


> Farmers around here mostly use treated seeds; and I wouldn't want to take any chances with my family's health by grinding that produce up for human consumption.
> 
> I am looking for "organically grown" grains.


Now I'd not eat treated "pink" coated seed corn, even if I were dying of hunger. Could live another week or two without dying... eating that stuff could push you over the edge, dying in agony.


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## secretcreek (Jan 24, 2010)

texican said:


> Now I'd not eat treated "pink" coated seed corn, even if I were dying of hunger. Could live another week or two without dying... eating that stuff could push you over the edge, dying in agony.


I'll betcha you'd be parasite free though...
-scrt crk


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Only one caveat with getting corn from a farmer... does he have a lot, I mean a LOT??? on hand? If so, Why does he?


I'd question that also.

Around here what most do is load grain out of the combine into a truck that goes straight to a buyer.

Most don't have on farm storage other than for their own use


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## Sunbee (Sep 30, 2008)

How do you test for aflotoxin if you grow your own corn? I have painted mountain (short season field corn) which the original seed for came from Johnny's, and I didn't grow enough two years ago when we had a place to plant it to grind any. Maybe that was lucky? I'm just going to plant what I harvested when we have a place to garden again and hope some grows--it was a horrible season that year, snow at the end of June and all--but it would be good to know what to watch out for with it.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> How do you test for aflotoxin if you grow your own corn?


I'd assume you have to send samples to a lab


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2011)

I used to buy feed corn and grind it for cornmeal.

But since I don't want bioengineered corn, I now buy organic cornmeal.

If you are not averse to GMO's in your diet, then the corn from the feedstore should be ok for human consumption. Unless they do something to it now that they didn't used to.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

It's my understanding that very little, if any, GM corn is used for animal feed. The regulations stipulate that any GM corn, soy, or cottOn MUST be harvested, stored and processed TOTALLY isolated from non-GM corn, soy, or cotton to prevent cross-contamination - that means also the equipment used for harvesting, trucks for hauling, silos, bags, and everything else that would come into contact with GM corn, soy, or cotton MUST ONLY be used for the GM stuff. Most feed providers have not and cannot afford to set up essentially a 2nd processing plant just to handle GM stuff. GM corns are primarily being used for ethanol, and in human food products and the seeds for the GM stuff is ONLY available to the huge commercial Ag-business farms. Buying feed grains at your local feed store is most likely very safe. When in doubt, ASK at the feed store and don't quit asking until you have an answer.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Your understanding is nonexistant goatlady.


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## NewGround (Dec 19, 2010)

Wow, after reading this thread I'm even more glad I'll be growing my own supply of corn this year. Have to hope for a good harvest...


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## Durandal (Aug 19, 2007)

I'm a farmer. One reason a farmer would have a whole lot of corn is because they are playing the market. We do that. That bin is bank account. If you do not need the money right away let it sit till weevil pressure forces you to move it to market.

I also grow different types of corn. You can use field corn to cook/bake with no problem. Not too sure about the whole "off taste" thing mentioned. Chances are its the quality of the harvest not the corn itself. I grow commodity corn and food corn. I consider the two different. The food corn is combination of four different heirloom dent varieties I am hoping to cross enough to get good flavor and tall dense stalks. Yield when milling for a local market means I am not so worried about the yields like I used to be with the commodity stuff.

LOTS of corn these days is treated with neonic type pesticides which are systemic and found even in the pollen as it tassles weeks later. Do not eat seed corn unless its untreated. The last two years the midwest as a whole has had issue with high levels of both vomitoxins.

goatlady....your assumptions on GMO corn is completely false. Most feed corn is indeed GMO. Most our commercially produced non-GMO corn is purchased at a premium (.75 around here per bu) and then shipped to Japan where they pay a premium. This is CONVENTIONAL non-GMO.

The only thing close to a guarantee to having non-GMO is to purchase organic. Organic labeling does not guarantee either. Organic means you simply followed NOP oractices and filed the paperwork. You could have cross contamination and not even know it. Lots of discussion right now regarding actual testing to prove. You can also use the same equipment so long as you document your cleaning process. I am certifying for organic seed cleaning and I was rather surprised how simple that aspect was.

If its a predominantly GMO crop (corn, wheat, soybeans, rapeseed, cotton etc) chances are what you are consuming is GMO.


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

This is interesting to read. I have one sack of wheat that I bought with my animal feed order a while back - it is "emergency use only" as I use store bought flour at the moment.

The main reason I bought that is because I can't find bulk wheat for human consumption over here. I know it must be out there, but I can't find it.

So I bought it on the assumption that if it had been treated with chemicals then that would be harmful to livestock too? So my reckoning was that it couldn't have been treated as my hens aren't keeling over when they eat it? Probably a HUGE oversimplification but........


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

Well, my "understanding" is based on my personal experiences with 2 local granges in 2 different states as they are the ones who gave me the information about the corn and grains THEY buy, process, bag and sell. Obviously your milages vary. My current "local" feed store also only carries open-pollinated bulk seeds such as greenbean, squashes, etc. The do have 2 hybrid sweet corn, but they are hybrid, not GM.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Durandal said:


> I also grow different types of corn. You can use field corn to cook/bake with no problem. Not too sure about the whole "off taste" thing mentioned. Chances are its the quality of the harvest not the corn itself. I grow commodity corn and food corn. I consider the two different. The food corn is combination of four different heirloom dent varieties I am hoping to cross enough to get good flavor and tall dense stalks. Yield when milling for a local market means I am not so worried about the yields like I used to be with the commodity stuff.


So if you dont notice any taste difference, why do you grow "commodity corn" and "food corn". If you cant taste any difference, why go to the extra bother?

And I'm not saying "commodity corn" isnt edible, sure you can probably survive on it if you are desperate. But for me, I'd have to be very desperate to put up with the horrible taste. I've actually tried it. Corn bread, polenta, etc has horrible off taste compared to "food corn" as you call it. Commodity corn is just that, an industrial commodity. where taste is of no concern, its all about maximum production, uniformity, and price. Any food company using it would have to process it to neutralize/mask the flavor.


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## homebody (Jan 24, 2005)

The manager told me that ALL their corn is GMO. No other corn, OP corn available as far as I know in close surrounding area. I'll either grow it myself or we won't have it. Can't plant this year but will next year for sure. Bought Reids yellow dent from Shumways.


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## Durandal (Aug 19, 2007)

HermitJohn said:


> So if you dont notice any taste difference, why do you grow "commodity corn" and "food corn". If you cant taste any difference, why go to the extra bother?


I love a good wine. I also buy a whole lot of Charles Shaw to fill my wine rack when I do not have guests over. I think most do.

You over simplify the whole taste thing, through all field corn into one category. I have selected certain heirlooms because I personally think the taste is better and in some varieties the stalk is tall and strong enough to compete in a non-herbicide environment with giant ragweed and Johnson Grass. This does not mean that field corn, even what I consider non-food is in any way inedible or poor in taste. Because I prefer one over another does not mean the first is bad. All your cornmeal and pollenta in the stores is from your "junk" GMO field corn. Unless it states otherwise.

That means almost every restaurant, every pizzeria, every bakery, every church bake is using the stuff you call crap. 

Its sort of like arguing whether the 99% of eggs produced in America are crap compared to the TRULY free range stuff done on a small scale. They may be of a higher quality but you can cook and bake just fine with either one.

I LOVE my cornmeal and pollenta that I mill and so do my customers. I've tasted a freshly milled GMO-cornmeal...the moment it was milled. It was not bad. The poeple I sell to do not want GMO cornmeal and I respect their wishes but if you are on a tight budget and need to eat or need to bulk preserve a corn harvest you can purchase 55# of corn for about 8.00. That is not a bad deal at all. I sell my cornmeal for 2.50 a pound because its worth that and is in no way a great deal for someone pinching pennies on food.

I would suggest that the you attempt tasting of other corn to compare. If dried and stored properly basic No. 2 Yellow Dent is a nice simple cornmeal that when freshly milled has enough flavor to make decent cornbread.

On the issue of food grade vs feed grade I'll argue that there is a very fine line dividing these and that we as a society get too caught up in the semantics of such definitions. Its amazing we humans lived so long with all the demands for food safety and labeling.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

That dividing line depends upon the product. Our newsletter from our local elevator just this week said that feed wheat is plentiful but high protein wheat necessary for baking is in very short supply. If people buy feed wheat they are not going to be making bread. They have to understand that there are differences and decide whether it will work for them. Feed quality is not necessarily going to be what they think it will be.


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## Durandal (Aug 19, 2007)

Not true at all. Chances are what they have is a soft red winter wheat. Which can be used to make bread, pasta, pie crust, pizza dough. It can be used to cut your generic baking all purpose or bread flour.

Its not so much the amount of protein but the type of gluten. Gluten is made up of gluetenin and gliadin. Certain wheat have more of one than the other. THis does not mean they have no use baking. They just are not going to make a big puffy artisan loaf. They will make nice pan loafs though and flat breads. All of which are EASY to make.

Edit: I'd like to add that I am not trying to be argumentative here. American consumers have be hand fed definitions of food for the past 50 years. I mill a soft red wheat. It sucks for making one of those huge rising kneeded loaves of bread. That is a gluten issue. Its got the density but not the elasticity to introduce lots of small air bubbles. Its flavor is fantastic in part because its stored properly and milled as needed by my customers. When a chef orders this wheat they get it milled the day its delivered. Its a true whole wheat and unsifted. I cannot recommended enough trying to experiment with a variety of grains. I'll argue that even some of those feed mill guys know little about different cultivars of grains in terms of use for baking and cooking. That "feed" wheat makes awesome groats...or soaked wheat berries and cabbage. You can soak them in water...or beer....or wine/vinegar to change the flavor characteristics. If you can sift the flour down to a "00" flour you can make your own pasta from it. I make pizzas all the time from soft red wheat.

Its all a matter of education and experimentation. If you have a farmer growing soft red wheat chances are its not organic. Few do organic wheat (though there are more every year). Unless you demand organic this product can be fantastic and inexpensive if purchased directly from the farmer. For those of us living in areas with less severe winters and warmer/wet springs, trying to find a good hard wheat may be difficult. I would suggest trying to find some spelt growers. We have a huge number here in Ohio.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

LOL, I just repeated what they said in their newsletter. I have no real opinion one way or another. I bought my wheat at Walmart. They went on to say that Canada was having problems getting 13.5 % protein that was required for flour this year from their grains for export. When I buy flour or wheat I want to know what the protein amount is in the grain because I want protein. I was basically trying to say that you get whatever is in the elevator and it isn't guaranteed to be anything but feed quality unless it is said to be food wheat or bread wheat etc.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I believe aflatoxin gets into corn in certain conditions... like abnormally high humidity or drought stresses on corn, near the end stages of drying.

I've seen some of the 'deer corn' that has aflatoxin free statements on the bags.

GMO, non GMO, Organic, Aflatoxin free......... any statement made by anyone has to be taken on trust. Only thing I can positively identify is the pink coating (pesticide) on corn seed, and won't eat that. Under most conditions, I'd not hesitate to eat feed corn or deer corn, gmo, non gmo, organic, inorganic, whatever. 

IF I were able to make a 'last run' to town, a pallet of deer corn or feed corn on the truck or trailer would sure warm my heart. Would prefer free range organic, but no one stocks non gmo or organic here now....


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

I guess that if it came down to eating the stuff or not eating I would eat feed corn. While I am able to make choices I chose to not eat the stuff. We have two grain wagons full of feed corn that was delivered the end of Feb. and I would be hard pressed to put what is coming out of those wagons to feed the animals on my table in anything but a dire emergency. There are parts of dead rodents, feathers, chicken crap etc. in there and even if it is cooked---well, the memory lingers on. If I was truly hungry--I would be cooking it up like crazy! For now--no thanks. I'd rather feed the critters and eat the meat and eggs. Sort of like I'd rather feed the chickens the maggots and eat the chickens and the eggs than eat the maggots. LOL


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2011)

Durandal said:


> Not true at all. Chances are what they have is a soft red winter wheat. Which can be used to make bread, pasta, pie crust, pizza dough. It can be used to cut your generic baking all purpose or bread flour.
> 
> Its not so much the amount of protein but the type of gluten. Gluten is made up of gluetenin and gliadin. Certain wheat have more of one than the other. THis does not mean they have no use baking. They just are not going to make a big puffy artisan loaf. They will make nice pan loafs though and flat breads. All of which are EASY to make.
> 
> ...


 Well, sure, if you have experimented enough and worked out your particular technique for making good bread from low-gluten wheat then soft wheat is just fine.

If you have done all of those things.

And if you haven't you're likely to get some disappointing bread.

The fact is that MOST bread makers are not accustomed to using that sort of wheat for making good bread and most of them are not particularly interested in making more than a little (if any) flatbreads so suggesting low-gluten wheat for them is not giving good advice.

If you know enough to be able to do those things that you suggest above then you probably already know enough that you don't need the advice in this thread.

For the folks that aren't experienced whole-grain bread bakers who want good bread they should stick with a good high protein wheat. It's what is most likely to give them the results they are after without suffering disappointment after disappointment.

As for feed grains in particular it's all about ones risk tolerance. Feed grains are somewhat of a crap shoot. If bought through commercial channels they are supposed to have been tested for mycotoxins and at least a basic nutrient assay. But I've seen some mighty crappy looking feed corn and once in a great while some sorry looking oats. There's no way I'd feed them to my family and wouldn't feed them to my animals either. They went back to the feed dealer. More commonly I've seen very good clean looking grain which I felt was of sufficiently low enough risk that I'd feed it to my family. But mostly what I've found over the years was just ordinary feed grain. OK for my animals, but not usually something I'd mill for my wife and kids.

In the case of wheat it's meant for animal feed so it's probably never been tested for its particular fitness for making any sort of bread. Maybe it would be good. Maybe it would be poor. It would be an unknown. Here in Florida where I'm at I've never seen any but soft, red wheat in the feed store. Other parts of the country can and sometimes does have different types and varieties. Unless you know what you are looking at if you buy a bag of feed wheat to make bread with you won't know what you're working with. And it usually needs a fair amount of cleaning. High-speed impact mills are very unforgiving about rocks.

Most especially for folks who are not very knowledgeable about grains to begin with I do not recommend using animal feed grains for personal consumption.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

We have sent back feed grains also because of horrible quality. For people that think that having feed triple screened or whatever to remove more debri--it does not bring up quality or safety.


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## praieri winds (Apr 16, 2010)

we got deer corn for grinding the feed store mg told us the corn is not sprayed because it would harm the deer so I figured it was safe for us to eat it was very clean aand looked good had a good taste also


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

Durandal It is nice to see someone post some facts instead of hysterical myths and wivestales.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Durandal said:


> All your cornmeal and pollenta in the stores is from your "junk" GMO field corn. Unless it states otherwise.


They process the taste out of it. Just chew a kernel of field corn off an ear in the field and you can tell its not going to make acceptable corn meal just by grinding it up. This isnt just from one field or one time tasting it. It has weird off taste, thats just the nature of the beast. The factories that sell stuff in grocery store do far more than just grind the grain into meal. Very little corn meal sold is whole grain, its highly processed. Commodity corn isnt really a grain you can eat directly, its a super cheap industrial raw material. They'd be just as happy if it were mined out of ground like coal or iron ore. 

Also I do believe the market for blue and red corn to make the colored chips is satisfied with OP varieties. I dont think there is GMO blue field corn yet though no doubt its genetics are contaminated with those of GMO corn. I saw some dealer mentioned on this forum sells unground blue or red corn in 50# bags so it is available. Shipping is just a killer.


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