# The running of the bulls! (Stock market trading thread)



## willow_girl

Who's still trading? How ya doing? 2012 is looking pretty good so far! 

I'm having trouble finding new stocks right now ... the market seems a bit overheated. It's hard to find good companies that haven't already gone up 20-30% in the last 6 months. That leaves an awful lot of room for profit-taking ... :teehee: 

Mostly I've dealt in semiconductor manufacturers this year. No fancy strategy; I'd buy one, and as soon as it sold, I'd pick up a comparable. So far, I've gone through AMAT, UTEK and LSI ... right now, I'm holding BCRM, although it's gone down in value since I've bought it (arrgh!!!) so it may be with me for awhile. :bored:

Today's pick: MTX!


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## Guest

Found my niche.


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## willow_girl

And it's ... ?

(That was a tease! You're required to explain.)


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## unregistered168043

I have a broad range of stocks that I've been holding and building up for the last 5 months or so. My original plan of action was to go for large cap stocks that pay a decent dividend. Now that the market is popping I've gotten a bit more aggressive. I expect oil to blow past 130 at least when there is some action in the middle east. Here's my 'portfolio';

WMT ( down right now )

GIS ( down )

BPT ( way up over 12% increase in a few months )

COP ( up )

NLY ( up )

LINE ( up )

T ( way up )

VOD ( up )

HAL ( up )

VOC ( up )

GTU ( down )

SO ( up )

The beauty of almost all these stocks is that they pay a good dividend too.


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## Guest

Last time I went into it the whole thread died, remember? LOL. But its all about credit spreads. That week the dow moved up a thousand points in one week put a hurting on me, but I panicked out before the full extant of the beating. I rewrote my paradigm to include such an unlikely event and went back in. Currently an average of 4% weekly return. Bear call spreads. I like index proxies and the bond proxy. There is a limit to how fast they can go up. In other words, I can envision a lot of scenarios that would cause the market to drop cataclysmicly but none that would cause it to rise equally fast.

One entry, on Monday afternoon. One commission. worthless expiration is the goal. I'm selling hope and buying "lesser" hope as insurance.
Using the "rule of 72" indicates that 4% weekly compounds to a double in 18 weeks. So, in theory, you *could* turn a thousand dollars into a million dollars in 3 1/2 years.


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## clovis

The stock market thread is back???

Does this mean that I no longer have to wander aimlessly through my life?

I have sorely missed this thread!!!!


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## clovis

zong said:


> Using the "rule of 72" indicates that 4% weekly compounds to a double in 18 weeks. So, in theory, you *could* turn a thousand dollars into a million dollars in 3 1/2 years.


So, if I sent you $100, could you turn it into $1 million in about 4 years?

I would never work another day in my life with that kind of money.


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## willow_girl

I got smacked around last week, OUCH! Glad for close of market Friday; at least the bleeding has stopped. LOL

Guess Momma said there would be weeks like this. :teehee:

Toot, my husband is really into the high dividend stocks ... I passed your list on to him.


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## Guest

clovis said:


> So, if I sent you $100, could you turn it into $1 million in about 4 years?
> 
> I would never work another day in my life with that kind of money.


Based on the rule of 72, it would take about 60 weeks to go from a hundred to a thousand at 4%. Of course, using small numbers, you limit yourself severely, in that you would have to double your initial investment in order to double your trade, so no compounding at all, thus the rule of 72 is negated. Using, say, $10k, a 4% return is equal to $400 which you can immediately put back to work. On the other hand, there are no $4.00 contracts. I did open an account dedicated to this practice solely. Around the middle of November. The very next week was the week the Dow moved up a thousand points during the week, which would have broke my stops. My loss was equivalent to about 3 weeks gains, but only because I panicked out before the full damage was done. So, not so bad. 
If you send me a hundred dollars, I'll do whatever I feel is right with it. After all, once it's mine, it's mine, right?? I don't know why you'd want to send me a hundred dollars but I sure will appreciate it.


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## willow_girl

> If you send me a hundred dollars, I'll do whatever I feel is right with it. After all, once it's mine, it's mine, right?? I don't know why you'd want to send me a hundred dollars but I sure will appreciate it.


:hysterical:


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## clovis

zong said:


> if you send me a hundred dollars, i'll do whatever i feel is right with it. After all, once it's mine, it's mine, right?? I don't know why you'd want to send me a hundred dollars but i sure will appreciate it.


lol!!!!!


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## Halfway

trade e mini futures for 60/40 tax treatment and no "wash sale" rules. 

"invest" long term with a "value" approach and you will do well.

Trade with the trend.

Pre-determine your stops and don't budge.

Trading success is through discipline and psychological control. 

It is funny how the human mind treats random rewards and triggers the need for more. Reduce the randomness.


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## clovis

FWIW, I'd love to see a pull back in the market...at least a temporary one.

I don't buy much, but when I do, I prefer getting a better bargain than some of the prices that I am seeing these days.

I am a little shocked and perplexed by this bull market. Just a few months ago, stocks would edge up, and then fall drastically. Anyone know why the market is on fire?


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## willow_girl

> FWIW, I'd love to see a pull back in the market...at least a temporary one.


You hesh your mouth, Clovis! ound:

I know what ya mean, though -- it's hard to find good companies that aren't already up 20-30%.


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## clovis

I see we have a pull back today in the markets.

Of course, Willow...I didn't want your stocks to drop, just the ones on my watch list.


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## InvalidID

My only holdings outside of a few stocks Ill never sell are OIB and RGR. RGR is the houses money though as I sold half after it doubled leaving me with nothing but profit to play with.

With RGR near 42 though I'm thinking I should bail and use that money somewhere else. Problem is I'm in full risk off right now. With Greece floundering, the rules in Europe being rewritten to suit the big guys, Iran opening it's Bourse in 2 weeks... I sure would like to be able to short some Euro banks right now.


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## willow_girl

clovis said:


> I see we have a pull back today in the markets.
> 
> Of course, Willow...I didn't want your stocks to drop, just the ones on my watch list.


Even Cramer plugging Broadcom yesterday AND today wasn't enough to save it! ound:

Well, I hope I really like these stocks, because it looks like they're going to be with me for awhile ... :bored:


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## clovis

Decisions, decisions!

I've got a little cash to put into my high yield dividend investments.

But what should I buy?

I really like EXC right now. It is at its 52 week low, and sporting a 5%+ dividend. Highly ranked, but the next ex-date is in May. If the stock jumps up 50 cents, I just lost the equivalent of one quarter's dividend.

KO: If Warren likes it, I am open to it. Much Lower dividend, under 3%. Ex-date this month. 

There is a REIT paying 7%+, and the price appears to be stable. Ex-date is 3/19. I think the symbol is DREpO.

And then there is BPT. I am already long, and wanted to buy more at $115. Nice yield of 7%+. It is high right now, at $123ish, but does anyone think oil will ever be cheap again?
Do you bite the bullet and pay the $120+ price?

Or, do I wait until I have some more cash built up?????? 

Too many decisions....


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## InvalidID

Anyone catch a piece of Carbonite? It was mentioned ow it dropped 12% on the Rush thread so I snatched up a little. Good for a little better than $400 for a 1 day trade! I missed the bottom but got pretty close to the top on the way out at least. Not too shabby.

I mentioned it on that thread but forgot this one was here. My bad.


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## willow_girl

That is great, II! :bouncy:

Clovis, I looked at your stocks and 

KO strikes me as a steady-Eddy sort of stock, and a 51-cent quarterly divided is nothing to sneeze at! Hmm, I think you just talked me into adding this one to my IRA. 

OTOH, EXC has me worried. According to Smart Consensus, its stock is down almost 12 percent over the last quarter. Initially I thought that might be due to its pending acquisition (seems the acquiring company always takes a hit) but upon further checking, nope, they're down about 12 percent for the past year. This is at a time when many other stocks are booming, so why? I didn't dig deep enough to find an answer ... the decline was enough to put me off this one. 

I couldn't find anything on that REIT. 

BPT is pricey alright, but oil drilling here in North America sounds pretty darned good right now!


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## Halfway

naz is off to the races and pulling new HOD (high of day) without end. spx bottom trendline is still in tact. big trend is up.


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## Halfway

I had some really great scanners for stocks on stockfetcher, but I don't day trade stock anymore.

Any one using screeners to find their daily trades? What kind of setups do you use.

Trying to get a little strategy talk going here.


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## willow_girl

Well, I was kicking myself HARD today! Over the weekend, DH told me of an moviemaker who has a much-hyped film coming out this week. He recommended I take a look at their stock (LGF). I did, and decided I'd buy 300 shares Monday when the market opened. Then on Sunday night, I found a truck I might be interested in buying, so I figured I'd better hang on to my cash for that. 

You guessed it -- that stock went up more than a buck today! :sob:

On the bright side, I kicked MTX out of the nest today; made $90. My BRCM is in the black for practically the first time since I bought it! Grrrr. Maybe it'll fly the coop tomorrow. So far, I'm up $845 for the year on completed transactions ... a little behind where I was last year at this time, but I haven't been trading quite as aggressively.


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## clovis

Willow-

Nice play on the MTX!!!!! Congrats!!!! Great job!!!!


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## Halfway

So much for strategy talk?


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## clovis

Halfway said:


> So much for strategy talk?


I wish I could share in a good strategy conversation with you...but I am sure you'll be bored to tears with my current strategy.

My strategy is to buy high quality stock that pays healthy dividends. I simply do not have the money to play or day trade stocks right now, even though I wish I did. I am focusing on my fledgling retirement account.

I'm going to learn more from the other posters on this thread than they will ever learn from me. Sad, but true.

What is your strategy? How do you play the game?


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## willow_girl

Well, I bought LGF today, but it seems to be running in the opposite direction, and I'm DOWN a hundred bucks! 

And so it goes ... LOL


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## TNHermit

willow_girl said:


> Well, I was kicking myself HARD today! Over the weekend, DH told me of an moviemaker who has a much-hyped film coming out this week. He recommended I take a look at their stock (LGF). I did, and decided I'd buy 300 shares Monday when the market opened. Then on Sunday night, I found a truck I might be interested in buying, so I figured I'd better hang on to my cash for that.
> 
> You guessed it -- that stock went up more than a buck today! :sob:
> 
> On the bright side, I kicked MTX out of the nest today; made $90. My BRCM is in the black for practically the first time since I bought it! Grrrr. Maybe it'll fly the coop tomorrow. So far, I'm up $845 for the year on completed transactions ... a little behind where I was last year at this time, but I haven't been trading quite as aggressively.



I have a little different question. How much time is invested in say this stock trade. research,tracking and all


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## willow_girl

You can spend as much or as little time as you want! 

I don't spend as much as I did in the beginning. There's a learning curve to everything ... it doesn't take me very long now to decide whether I'm interested in a stock or not.

As soon as I buy, I set up the stock to sell once it hits the targeted price. Most days I don't do more than check my portfolio at the end of the day. When something sells, I look for another one. Sometimes I look at the comparables to the one I've just sold and buy the next one on the list. I've recently gone through 5 or 6 semiconductor stocks this way ... so far it's working! Sometimes DH gives me a hot stock tip  or I find something I like in his portfolio. 

Now that I think about it, it's kind of scary ... sometimes I'll drop 5 or 6 grand on a stock after researching it for all of 5 minutes. :teehee:


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## willow_girl

Well, LGF straightened up and flew right ... and right out of my portfolio! But I made $76 after trading fees, hmm, perhaps I should have set my sights a bit higher on that one. 

Oh well, not gonna complain!


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## clovis

Nice play on the LGF, WG. A fast nickel is better than a slow dime, at least in my opinion.

FWIW, I am still sitting on the sidelines. The Dow slid a little today...I'd like to see it drop a little more. 

Why do I have so many doubts about this bull market? Is it because I've seen all the stocks on my watch list trade 30% lower for the past year?


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## willow_girl

Clove, it seems to me the stock market is rather like a game of reverse musical chairs! When the music stops, you don't want to be stuck holding a chair/stock! 

That said ... gotta strike while the iron is hot, I guess. 

I thought today might be a good day, so for breakfast I had a cup of coffee, muffin, and 400 shares of LSI. :hysterical:


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## InvalidID

What do you guys think of BAC? I'm thinking a pull back into the 9.70s might offer a chance at some easy money but I'm kinda gun shy on bank shares. Am I alone on that?


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## willow_girl

No you are not! That sector scares me ... :teehee:


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## willow_girl

ID, look at CLNE. 

DH bought it 5 days ago ... he is up 16%!


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## willow_girl

LGF is up another 57 cents today ... why oh why did I sell? ound:


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## InvalidID

Oh, I'll telly you guys what I'm going to play for the Iran hedge if it comes to that. FOL. It's an oil bull S&P bear index. If we end up bombing Iran I think there's some money there, though I want to be in before the bombing starts.


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## InvalidID

CLNE shows negative earnings as far back as I can see. What put him onto it?


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## TNHermit

InvalidID said:


> What do you guys think of BAC? I'm thinking a pull back into the 9.70s might offer a chance at some easy money but I'm kinda gun shy on bank shares. Am I alone on that?



If I get my way you can short it to 0


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## InvalidID

TNHermit said:


> If I get my way you can short it to 0


 That would be a dream come true for me too. But in the mean time I want to make a buck off them if I can. US Bank is another one I hate and would like to vampire a little... LOL


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## willow_girl

> CLNE shows negative earnings as far back as I can see. What put him onto it?


I know -- that freaked me right out, too! I'd never invest in something like that, but he's up $900 (he has 250 shares) and I guess I can't argue with success! :shrug:

The company builds natural gas fueling stations. He thinks that's the up-and-coming thing. Another stock in that sector that's done well for him is MWE. He bought 100 shares in November ...it's up 19.51% for a profit of $1,015. Its earnings aren't impressive either! 

DH and I do things differently ... very differently. ound:


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## clovis

ID-

Why BAC? What kind of play are you thinking?

Looks, at least to me, that the boat was missed on Thursday 3/15 when the stock was below 9.00.


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## clovis

InvalidID said:


> Oh, I'll telly you guys what I'm going to play for the Iran hedge if it comes to that. FOL. It's an oil bull S&P bear index. If we end up bombing Iran I think there's some money there, though I want to be in before the bombing starts.


I like that idea, even though I am new to ETF's.

If the war drum gets beat, and any war action takes place, that could be a nice play.

It is just off of its 52 week low...lots of room to make a quick profit.

On the other hand, with oil so high, why isn't that ETF going through the roof right now?


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## willow_girl

OUCH! 

I took a $105 hit today. :sob:

But my LSI is only off 13 cents ... I can live with that, I guess ... a good thing, too, since it's not as if I have a choice! ound:


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## clovis

willow_girl said:


> OUCH!
> 
> I took a $105 hit today. :sob:
> 
> But my LSI is only off 13 cents ... I can live with that, I guess ... a good thing, too, since it's not as if I have a choice! ound:


On paper, or did you dump it?


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## willow_girl

Just on paper! I haven't sold anything at a loss ... yet! Knock on wood!


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## willow_girl

Well, I got $30 back on Friday! So overall, I'm only $36 in the hole. Let's hope for a better week next week, eh?


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## willow_girl

OK, got my wish! I am $101 to the good now. 

DH (who is braver than I am!) bought LGF again on Friday and dumped it yesterday for a quick $106. It's still experiencing a high volume (more than 4 million shares traded Monday) and was up after hours but I am staying far, far away! :teehee:


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## unregistered168043

I pulled out 3 weeks ago. Its all too hot, too fast. I kept one oil etf....I think it's USL. Other than that, I'm on the sidelines waiting for the next move.


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## willow_girl

Toot, you will just have to live vicariously through the rest of us! LOL 

I know what you mean, though -- I'm seriously thinking of following my husband's advice to "Sell in May and stay away." 

But in the meantime! My BRCM shot up today and crossed the finish line, netting $100. (But I had held it since 2/17, so I feel like I _earned_ that money, darn it!) ound:

LSI went down, though, so I'm (temporarily, I hope) $22 in the hole. But up $1022 for the year on completed trades!


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## clovis

I've been away from the forum for a few days, and was surprised to see no new posts on this thread.

I'm sure I am the only one happy to see the Dow slide today. I bought EXC for a LT buy and hold...it has a decent dividend, and a strong dividend history. I think energy is going to be a huge play in the future.


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## Tobster

Clovis, I like energy too, that includes the pipelines. Many of them pay a nice dividend and the price is strong. Those are the easiest stocks to buy on a pullback.

Put on a position in INVN today. It is in a serious 'correction' LOL if you can not step in and pull the trigger when one is showing a lot of red, don't bother looking at it.


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## willow_girl

Go Clove!!!

I took advantage of the quote-unquote correction to buy back FUN at 50 cents a share less than a sold it for a month or so ago ...

Otherwise ... OUCH!


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## clovis

Tobster,

I agree, I like pipelines too. 

I like SXL, and missed this years run up from $30 to $37.

I'd like to own that stock, I think, but I like it much better more towards $30. Maybe that will happen if/when the oil markets settle down.


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## willow_girl

Well, I got daring and picked up 100 shares of CLNE. DH dumped his a week or so ago ... he still was up $200, although it had been a lot higher. Sometimes he will ride the elevator all the way to the bottom, though! 

I'm going to go long on it ... I really think CNG is an up-and-coming technology.

Ha, FUN came up a little since I bought it, so I'm $17 to the good! Nice to see a little green in that sea of red today ... :teehee:

I'd better go now before I spend any more money. ound:


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## willow_girl

Whew! At the end of the day, the stock I've been holding (LSI) had lost $32. One of my new ones (CLNE) was down $8.91, but since the trading fee is $9.99, it actually came up a penny or so after I bought it. And FUN was up $20 for the day! 

DH, on the other hand, was off $1550. :teehee: 

Corrections are brutal. Let's hope this one is over soon!


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## willow_girl

So much for going long on CLNE! When I heard the market was expected to rebound this morning, I rolled the dice and set a 'sell' if it went up a buck. Mission accomplished! 

And DH got back everything he lost and then some today! Whew, gotta have nerves of steel to ride this ride ... :teehee:

Say, what do you guys think of PPO? I've bought and sold it a couple times in the past. It's really gotten beat up as of late -- somewhat inexplicably, as it earnings have been in positive territory. It makes battery components -- seems there should be some demand. All the analysts give it a thumbs-down, though. WTH?


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## clovis

PPO...Now that is an interesting stock.

It has had a wild ride in the past year, with a 52 week high of $74, yet it is trading now in the $36 range.

Very high volume today, BTW, which is double it's normal average.

The P/E seems within reason at 16x.

At a quick glance, that stock might make for an interesting longer term trade. What if you held it until it hit $50 again?

Why on earth is this stock getting pounded into the ground?


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## clovis

Does anyone check the Asian markets before the US markets open, as a possible gauge to how the Dow might look in it's opening moments?


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## willow_girl

> Why on earth is this stock getting pounded into the ground?


That's what I can't figure out! Weird huh?


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## Tobster

clovis said:


> Does anyone check the Asian markets before the US markets open, as a possible gauge to how the Dow might look in it's opening moments?


The stock index futures for the S&P 500 and the DOW will tell you exactly where it is going to open. They are influenced more by the European markets during overnight and early morning. Major news events anywhere in the world may affect the price of futures.

Index futures continue to trade for 15 minutes after the DOW closes, then sit dark for 15 minutes while they reset everything, then it is game on again at 3:30 pm central time, so you can always check the stock index futures for a pulse.

Edit to add: When the futures close at 3:15 central on Friday the next quote is not until Sunday at 5:00 pm.


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## Halfway

Ahhhh the Oil Sands!


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## Michael W. Smith

I'm just not a day trader. I prefer to buy the stock direct (either at no cost or very little cost) and hold it long term.

So far, I've done fairly well, with only a couple of losers.

My last buy was MCD which wasn't bought until Monday. (That's one bad thing about buying direct - last week MCD was down and I was hoping it would get bought then - didn't happen.)

However, this is in my ROTH IRA, so I have a good 20 years to go before I start selling.

It is fun to watch you guys though!


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## willow_girl

This morning, I was playing online before leaving for work, and decided to look up a few companies I'd traded last year. One of the first to come to mind was KRO, which -- like PPO -- seems to have fallen on hard times as of late; off by nearly a third from its 52-wk. high. I noticed it had been going for about $24, but had fallen to $21 in the last week or so. I figured there was room for improvement, so I put in a buy for 200 shares and asked DH to set my 'sell' as usual once the market opened. When I checked with him later in the day, he said my stock sold within minutes of the bell! KRO continued to climb, finishing the day up a whopping $1.20 (more than 5 percent)! 

If I'd kept my fingers (or, technically, my husband's fingers) away from the keyboard, I'd be sitting on $240, but as it is, I walked away with $80 after fees. Don't know whether to  or :sob:

Not gonna complain too much, though -- with today's trade, I'm up $1176 for the year on completed transactions.


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## willow_girl

Michael W. Smith said:


> I'm just not a day trader. I prefer to buy the stock direct (either at no cost or very little cost) and hold it long term.
> 
> So far, I've done fairly well, with only a couple of losers.
> 
> My last buy was MCD which wasn't bought until Monday. (That's one bad thing about buying direct - last week MCD was down and I was hoping it would get bought then - didn't happen.)
> 
> However, this is in my ROTH IRA, so I have a good 20 years to go before I start selling.
> 
> It is fun to watch you guys though!


That's a SCHWEET dividend, Michael! Is that why you picked it?


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## clovis

Tobster said:


> The stock index futures for the S&P 500 and the DOW will tell you exactly where it is going to open. They are influenced more by the European markets during overnight and early morning. Major news events anywhere in the world may affect the price of futures.
> 
> Index futures continue to trade for 15 minutes after the DOW closes, then sit dark for 15 minutes while they reset everything, then it is game on again at 3:30 pm central time, so you can always check the stock index futures for a pulse.
> 
> Edit to add: When the futures close at 3:15 central on Friday the next quote is not until Sunday at 5:00 pm.


Tobster,

Thank you for the info. I am constantly learning new things on this thread...and I appreciate it very much!!!


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## clovis

Michael W. Smith said:


> I'm just not a day trader. I prefer to buy the stock direct (either at no cost or very little cost) and hold it long term.
> 
> So far, I've done fairly well, with only a couple of losers.
> 
> My last buy was MCD which wasn't bought until Monday. (That's one bad thing about buying direct - last week MCD was down and I was hoping it would get bought then - didn't happen.)
> 
> However, this is in my ROTH IRA, so I have a good 20 years to go before I start selling.
> 
> It is fun to watch you guys though!


MWS, 

I've heard in the past that stocks could be bought direct, but had forgotten about it.

How do you buy them direct? Through the company website?

Who holds the stock? Are you able to transfer it to your account, like Scottrade or Etrade?


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## clovis

Willow, WTG on the KRO!!!! 

Be happy with the fast $80. I would be elated to have made that much.

BTW, have you thought about switching to another broker? Seems that $20 on a RT trade is eating into your profits. Scottrade is just $7 a trade. The KRO trade you just made would have left you with an $86...I know $6 doesn't seem like much on a few trades, but it definitely adds up over a lifetime.

While those E-trade baby commercials are cute, and sometimes hilarious, I don't think they are worth an additional $6 per RT trade, lol.

There are cheaper brokers than Scottrade out there, as you know. Would any of those work for you?


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## willow_girl

That's a good point, Clovis, and I've given that some thought.

But DH uses eTrade. I like being able to jump back and forth between our portfolios. Sometimes we borrow money from one another while we're waiting for funds to settle! And moving my IRA would be a hassle. 

Also, I've become accustomed to the way eTrade is set up. I like their charts and analysis. I suppose I could learn a new system ... IF I could talk DH into making the switch with me! 

But you're right -- those fees DO add up! I just checked both our accounts, and we have spent a combined total of nearly $1,000 this year.


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## Tobster

Bank of America acquired Merrill Lynch and they have become competitive with trading fees and commissions. If you keep a combined balance of at least $25,000 they allow 30 free trades during the calendar month. You do pay a small SEC fee per each trade, usually less than 75 cents.

My guess is many companies are offering incentives.


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## willow_girl

Thanks Tobster!!!

I just read your post to my husband. He said what I thought he would (LOL) -- that he is happy with eTrade and doesn't want the hassle of changing.

He also said that when he was a tax preparer, he hated Merrill Lynch's paperwork. (I don't know why.)

But he did tell me to investigate and see what I could find out about the company! 

30 free trades a month sounds pretty darned good to me!

And if I left my IRA in eTrade, I still would have access to all their analysis .. hmmm.


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## Halfway

Some companies benefitting from the oil sands and the Bakken area that also pay solid dividends.

These may be better for swing or position trades than day trades, but strong potential nonetheless.

CHK 
COG
CRR
EOG
EPD
LUFK

Best of success! :goodjob:


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## willow_girl

I had EGY but ended up holding it for around 9 months as it sank like a rock right after I bought it. GRRRR!

I finally was able to sell it at a profit in February. 

Just checked, and it's currently up about 70 cents from where it was when I let it go.

I had 300 shares, too. :sob:


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## InvalidID

Tobster said:


> Bank of America acquired Merrill Lynch and they have become competitive with trading fees and commissions. If you keep a combined balance of at least $25,000 they allow 30 free trades during the calendar month. You do pay a small SEC fee per each trade, usually less than 75 cents.
> 
> My guess is many companies are offering incentives.


 I wouldn't put my money in anything BAC related. That's just me and I don't trust em. I certainly don't trust their analysis of anything anywhere.

I'm partial to Trade King myself. $5 trades all day long, no account minimum, no fees*, no hassle. They send me my statements and leave me alone, just the way I like it.

There is a $0.65 charge for options.


----------



## clovis

That is a great idea about leaving one account open at eTrade...the analysis could be very helpful.

It would be nice to see you pick up more profits from your trades, WG, no matter what brokerage house you are using.

I initially picked Scottrade because they have an office within a short drive from us. I liked the fact that I could stand in front of someone's desk and make sure a problem was handled, instead of having to deal with someone learning English as a second language on a 1-800 phone call. I did find out that those guys working that office are friendly, helpful, and very knowledgeable. I'll be with them for a while...and they save their Wall Street Journals for me, which is my favorite newspaper!

If I ever am able to get my account balances up, I'd definitely look at the ML deal that Tobster suggested. Less than a $1 per trade? That is a bargain!!!!


----------



## clovis

Willow...if you want, you could always cash out at eTrade, and simply start a new account somewhere...unless your trading is within an IRA.


----------



## willow_girl

I have 3 accounts at eTrade ... one is a brokerage, one an IRA, and the third contains the money I'm saving for a new truck, but I borrow from it when I need money because my funds haven't settled yet! 

So, yeah, I could move everything except the IRA and still use eTrade's analysis.


----------



## willow_girl

Well, I'm up 6% ($175) on FUN, which I bought six days ago. 

Sell or hold? What say ye, fellow traders?!


----------



## Tobster

willow_girl said:


> Well, I'm up 6% ($175) on FUN, which I bought six days ago.
> 
> Sell or hold? What say ye, fellow traders?!


How to manage a trade is one of the most difficult aspects of trading. I have rules and try always to follow them, while not ignoring the obvious. Also, I am constantly evaluating and trying to improve on the rules in my trading plan.

The focus on FUN at this level, is to recognize 29.98 being the high, you got a test of the high and price was rejected before reaching the high now you are looking at another test. FUN consolidated between 29 and 30 area and if FUN prints above the 29.82 last little high, I bet a dollar to a do nut it keeps going higher, through 30 and beyond. Stocks making new highs with the broader market (DOW and S&P) sluggish is the problem we are now facing. IMO At this point, no way would I hold if it sinks below 29.00


----------



## InvalidID

willow_girl said:


> Well, I'm up 6% ($175) on FUN, which I bought six days ago.
> 
> Sell or hold? What say ye, fellow traders?!


 How many shares do you have? Generally I try to sell enough to take a profit and hold a few as freebies. Then you're playing with the houses money so you can't lose.


----------



## Halfway

Along with Scottrade for log term investing, I use Interactive Brokers for shorter duration. Very low commissions. $.005 per share, $2.00 per futures contract.

Every product available (stocks, options, forex, currency futures, futures, bonds, etc.)

Easy to use.


----------



## clovis

willow_girl said:


> Well, I'm up 6% ($175) on FUN, which I bought six days ago.
> 
> Sell or hold? What say ye, fellow traders?!


While I agree with Tobster, if I was holding that stock with a $175 profit, I'm selling it as soon as I can find the "confirm trade" button.

But again, that is just me, and my personal perspective.


----------



## willow_girl

Well, I was at work all day, and didn't have access to your comments (or anyone to talk me down from the ledge ound: ) so naturally I panicked and pulled the plug (or had DH do it). I told him to sell if I was up $200! He was a little slow at the keyboard, and it actually went up another 10 cents by the time the transaction processed, so I made $210 gross, $190 net.

That brings my net for the year to $1364. YAY! 

Tobster, I appreciate your analysis. 

I think the high gas prices are going to hurt FUN (and thus its stock price) this summer. DH disagrees ... he's holding around 200 shares. We'll see who made the best call!



> I have rules and try always to follow them,


Yeah, me too! Mine is: TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN! :teehee: ound:


----------



## clovis

Congrats, WG!!!!!


----------



## Forlane

I have been thinking of putting to work some money I have set aside, can any of you tell me how much you are using in these little investment accounts?


----------



## InvalidID

willow_girl said:


> Well, I was at work all day, and didn't have access to your comments (or anyone to talk me down from the ledge ound: ) so naturally I panicked and pulled the plug (or had DH do it). I told him to sell if I was up $200! He was a little slow at the keyboard, and it actually went up another 10 cents by the time the transaction processed, so I made $210 gross, $190 net.
> 
> That brings my net for the year to $1364. YAY!
> 
> Tobster, I appreciate your analysis.
> 
> I think the high gas prices are going to hurt FUN (and thus its stock price) this summer. DH disagrees ... he's holding around 200 shares. We'll see who made the best call!
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, me too! Mine is: TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN! :teehee: ound:


 My people think gas prices will pretty much peak at the end of May beginning of June. That's the time to evaluate companies that may be hurt by high prices I think.

Anyway, I picked up 500 shares of NYX this morning for 27.34. It's well below the 50 day SMA, pays a decent dividend, and I already hold over 1k free shares from other trades over the years as a cushion.


----------



## willow_girl

Well, FUN went up 56 cents today! :sob:

Forlane, in answer to your question, I generally don't like to have more than $10,000 in play at once.


----------



## clovis

Forlane said:


> I have been thinking of putting to work some money I have set aside, can any of you tell me how much you are using in these little investment accounts?


I've complete many trades with less than $500 total, and made decent money while doing it.

I've done even more trades with only $1,000 +/- at play, and made even better money.

Many people think that you have to have at least $10,000 or more to make any money in the stock market. This is simply *not* true.

I have a friend that used to tell people that playing the market takes a minimum of $50,000. I laughed out loud when he told me that, and then asked him why 95% of his trades were well less than $2,000, and 95% of those were in the $800 to $1,500 range. It's funny that he didn't have an answer, except for a bunch of stuttering.

FWIW, one of us is still in the stock market, and the other is not....

The bottom line-play with what you have, and learn to make the most of it.


----------



## Tobster

Forlane said:


> I have been thinking of putting to work some money I have set aside, can any of you tell me how much you are using in these little investment accounts?


Forlane, it is a buyers' market with online brokers. Shop around to see if you can find an incentive for a basket of commission free trades. Then take a look and see what the* requirements are for an initial balance to open the account.* Find the combination that fits your comfort level. No matter what the size of your account, the important thing is the % you are profiting or losing, not the dollar amount. All the best to you.


----------



## clovis

Very good advice, Tobster.

I would like to note that my local Scottrade office said that they have people open accounts with as little as $100, even though the company website says that it takes $500 to open an account.

YMMV, though.


----------



## Forlane

Thank you. When I was in Highschool one of my teachers had us play a mock daytrading game. You started with $10,000 and whoever had the most money after a month got $50. 
I ended up winning with a total of around $250k 

This thread brought back some good memories, I am sure I couldn't replicate those numbers if I tried, but still has me pondering if I couldn't earn some extra income every month instead of a paltry .00005% saving account interest rate.


----------



## willow_girl

> Thank you. When I was in Highschool one of my teachers had us play a mock daytrading game. You started with $10,000 and whoever had the most money after a month got $50.
> I ended up winning with a total of around $250k


OMG, that brings back a memory! In my high school government class, we had to pick a stock and track our 'investment' over a semester. I picked Martin Marietta, because I liked the alliteration in its name ound: and it went down in value. I remember thinking at the time, "Whew, not gonna do that IRL." LOL! 

I agree that you can trade with a lot less than $10K. Probably 3/4 of the stocks I've trade this year have been valued at $25 or less per share, and I usually buy 100 shares.


----------



## clovis

Forlane said:


> but still has me pondering if I couldn't earn some extra income every month instead of a paltry .00005% saving account interest rate.


One thing you might consider is high yielding dividend stocks, which is my primary focus right now.

I only buy stock in solid companies that have a long track record of steady or increasing dividend pay outs.

Instead of letting money sit in the bank at ridiculously low rates, I've opted to go with stocks yielding about 5% or better.

Those dividends keep coming in, quarter after quarter, just like clockwork. 

I was playing with some numbers the other day:

$10,000 worth of EXC would give you $547 in dividends each year.
BPT $844 (these dividends will vary some)
LLY $490
T $587
VZ $534
NLY $1390 (Higher risk stock-it is a REIT) 

How is that for beating the bank?

FWIW, I started investing with some pretty small numbers...and am reinvesting the dividends as they pay out each quarter.


----------



## InvalidID

willow_girl said:


> OMG, that brings back a memory! In my high school government class, we had to pick a stock and track our 'investment' over a semester. I picked Martin Marietta, because I liked the alliteration in its name ound: and it went down in value. I remember thinking at the time, "Whew, not gonna do that IRL." LOL!
> 
> I agree that you can trade with a lot less than $10K. Probably 3/4 of the stocks I've trade this year have been valued at $25 or less per share, and I usually buy 100 shares.


 Trading with less than 10k is more possible now with low cost trading. Remember when it was 30-50 bucks a trade? HFC wasn't going to work at those prices unless you had serious cheddar in the game!


----------



## Forlane

willow_girl said:


> OMG, that brings back a memory! In my high school government class, we had to pick a stock and track our 'investment' over a semester. I picked Martin Marietta, because I liked the alliteration in its name ound: and it went down in value. I remember thinking at the time, "Whew, not gonna do that IRL." LOL!
> 
> I agree that you can trade with a lot less than $10K. Probably 3/4 of the stocks I've trade this year have been valued at $25 or less per share, and I usually buy 100 shares.


LOL I bought $8000 worth of CHS because it shared the same letters as my name and it was $1 per share.

It is a clothing company, it went from $1 up to $9 back down to around 4 up to around 12 in a week or two.


----------



## Forlane

clovis said:


> One thing you might consider is high yielding dividend stocks, which is my primary focus right now.
> 
> I only buy stock in solid companies that have a long track record of steady or increasing dividend pay outs.
> 
> Instead of letting money sit in the bank at ridiculously low rates, I've opted to go with stocks yielding about 5% or better.
> 
> Those dividends keep coming in, quarter after quarter, just like clockwork.
> 
> I was playing with some numbers the other day:
> 
> $10,000 worth of EXC would give you $547 in dividends each year.
> BPT $844 (these dividends will vary some)
> LLY $490
> T $587
> VZ $534
> NLY $1390 (Higher risk stock-it is a REIT)
> 
> How is that for beating the bank?
> 
> FWIW, I started investing with some pretty small numbers...and am reinvesting the dividends as they pay out each quarter.


I was thinking of starting with around $1k. I don't think its enough to do what you are suggesting in the time frame I am hoping for. Although I have a feeling my expectations are unreasonably high, "Aim for the stars and hit the moon"


----------



## InvalidID

Forgive the double post.

Tomorrow I'm thinking I want some more RGR (Ruger) even at $50 a share and near it's high. The dividend is nice $.21, and the company is pretty solid. I already own about 1200 shares I've had for about ever and these are more for the dividend than a trade.

I'm also looking at SWHC (Smith and Wesson Holding) but I'm not so sure there yet. It's cheap enough that I could grab a few shares, gun sales are booming as we all know, but still I'm leery for some reason.

Oh, and Boeing. I'm going to take a small bite of BA tomorrow.


----------



## clovis

InvalidID said:


> Forgive the double post.
> 
> Tomorrow I'm thinking I want some more RGR (Ruger) even at $50 a share and near it's high. The dividend is nice $.21, and the company is pretty solid. I already own about 1200 shares I've had for about ever and these are more for the dividend than a trade.


Invalid,

Any chance that you would share how you work stocks to pick up the dividend?

I am such a newbie at this...almost everything I buy now is for long term holding. I know that I am missing boat loads of opportunities while I hold these stocks from quarter to quarter, but that is where I need to be right now with our current situation. 

I am interested in learning how people buy stocks just to score the dividend, and dump them once they've reached the date of record. 

For instance, there is a Duke Realty REIT and a Volkswagen stock that pay handsome dividends. While neither stock is on my watch list, there has got to be a way that an investor could buy either stock, and dump it after they score the dividend, and walk away with a decent profit.

How do you jump in, buy, and miss the dividend bubble when it bursts, thus deflating the price of the stock, and still come out with a profit?

Sorry I am such a newb, and asking such newb questions.


----------



## clovis

Tobster said:


> The stock index futures for the S&P 500 and the DOW will tell you exactly where it is going to open. They are influenced more by the European markets during overnight and early morning. Major news events anywhere in the world may affect the price of futures.
> 
> Index futures continue to trade for 15 minutes after the DOW closes, then sit dark for 15 minutes while they reset everything, then it is game on again at 3:30 pm central time, so you can always check the stock index futures for a pulse.
> 
> Edit to add: When the futures close at 3:15 central on Friday the next quote is not until Sunday at 5:00 pm.



Okay, while I am asking dumb questions...

Is there a good website that I can check stock futures, or should I try to find it on Scottrade?


----------



## Halfway

clovis said:


> Okay, while I am asking dumb questions...
> 
> Is there a good website that I can check stock futures, or should I try to find it on Scottrade?


Individual stock futures or index futures?

try finviz dot com


----------



## InvalidID

clovis said:


> Invalid,
> 
> Any chance that you would share how you work stocks to pick up the dividend?
> 
> I am such a newbie at this...almost everything I buy now is for long term holding. I know that I am missing boat loads of opportunities while I hold these stocks from quarter to quarter, but that is where I need to be right now with our current situation.
> 
> I am interested in learning how people buy stocks just to score the dividend, and dump them once they've reached the date of record.
> 
> For instance, there is a Duke Realty REIT and a Volkswagen stock that pay handsome dividends. While neither stock is on my watch list, there has got to be a way that an investor could buy either stock, and dump it after they score the dividend, and walk away with a decent profit.
> 
> How do you jump in, buy, and miss the dividend bubble when it bursts, thus deflating the price of the stock, and still come out with a profit?
> 
> Sorry I am such a newb, and asking such newb questions.


 The short answer is I don't. When I buy a stock for the dividend I generally intend to hold it for awhile. Right now I'm only taking nibbles here and there when I see something I want for the longer term, or day trading. Day trading I don't care about anything except that I think the stock will move up, even a little, for at least 15 more minutes...

For dividend stocks I look for a company I think is going to keep doing well. I like companies that raise dividends (even better I like to listen to conference calls and look for hints the dividend will be raised) and I like companies that are going to start paying a dividend.

Buy on dips or before price spikes. If you listen to the conference calls and hear hints of a dividend increase you know the price is going up. You can buy it during the call, even before the analysts can tell everyone they expect it. You're ahead of the big boys and might not even hold the stock long enough to collect the dividend then.

I just filled my BA order at 74 even. I set the buy and waited for it to come to me. I figured after yesterdays ride there would be some testing today. I got my RGR at 50 even as well, betting it would come back a little. Buy the dips, even if they are little. (As of this writing RGR is still trending down, I may pick up a few more shares if it goes below 49.80)

My personal favorite method for long term cash building? Buy shares that pay dividends on the dips or before you think they'll make a nice move up, hold them as long as you think the trend is up, then dump all but the free shares. Free shares being shares that your profits cover. You don't get the immediate profit of course, but every move that stock makes up is free money and every dividend is too. If the shares move down you've lost nothing because it's free. Most of the stuff I own is free stuff I've built up over the years. (I own some RGR that I bought for less than $8)

As you repeat this method (if you're successful at it) you build up a really nice cash cow and a cushion if you get on the wrong side of a trade with one of these companies.


----------



## InvalidID

I've got my sell order in on RGR at 50.55. I'll keep 5 shares as new freebies and pocket the other 250... assuming we hit 50.55 of course.


----------



## clovis

InvalidID said:


> I've got my sell order in on RGR at 50.55. I'll keep 5 shares as new freebies and pocket the other 250... assuming we hit 50.55 of course.


If I'm reading today's charts correctly, you hit your sell point!!! Congrats!!!!

Thank you for the insight and help on the dividend question!!!!


----------



## InvalidID

clovis said:


> If I'm reading today's charts correctly, you hit your sell point!!! Congrats!!!!
> 
> Thank you for the insight and help on the dividend question!!!!


 Oh I hit the sell point today, then it kept right on running without me... LOL Its' ok though, I was expecting today to be sideways or down so I figured I'd take the profit and bail. Better to make a buck and miss one than lose them both.

Also, one of the reasons I ever had money to trade with was cost cutting. I have enough set aside now (houses money, I've taken my money back) is because I kept all my costs low. Not just trading costs, but life in general. Don't be in a hurry to chase the magic trade that makes you rich. More often than not you're only going to make someone else rich like that.

To expand on my dividend picks. I don't look at lots of different stocks anymore. I used to when I was trying to make 50% gains per year. Now I just follow a few select stocks that I really have built a feel for. Knowing how they act means I have a decent feel for what's going to happen with them. I'll buy the dips and sell the pops, rinse repeat. You can make money on a stock that's trending down this way if you know where the test points will be. It'll move up a little, you'll sell and wait for the net test point. Don't even have to short it.

ETA: My BA slapped me on the --- today though. Earnings report is in a few weeks so I'm going to sit on it as I expect a decent report. Also, I expect to see 77.50 before I see 73.


----------



## clovis

Halfway said:


> Individual stock futures or index futures?
> 
> try finviz dot com


I am just trying to get a glimpse of how the Dow might look for the next trading day. I've sometimes looked at the overnight Asian markets to get a possible idea how how the US markets might open.


----------



## willow_girl

> Oh I hit the sell point today, then it kept right on running without me...


Welcome to my world ... ound:

But congrats on the profit! :thumb:


----------



## InvalidID

willow_girl said:


> Welcome to my world ... ound:
> 
> But congrats on the profit! :thumb:


 Thanks. I've been trading for 10 years and I've never hit the high and low on a stock. I have sold at the exact top of the day and was so happy I partied away the profit on that trade.... It's only happened once though. If I did it again I''d likely party away the profit on that trade too. 

Now, could you please tell everyone to buy a few hundred shares of BA for me... :hysterical:


----------



## TNHermit

This might be of interest

Facebook: Buying Stock In 3 Clicks - Business Insider

Coming Soon: Buying Stock On Facebook In 3 Clicks

Read more: Facebook: Buying Stock In 3 Clicks - Business Insider


----------



## willow_girl

Did anyone take advantage of today's opportunity to buy on the dip?

I picked up 200 shares of CLNE after it dropped almost a buck right at the opener. It had already started to edge back up ... it gained back about 35 cents and I finished the day in the black.

DH just laughed when I said I might actually go long on it this time. I told him that he shouldn't be surprised that a woman who has been married 4 times has problems with commitment! ound:

Let's hope for a rally tomorrow, eh? :teehee:


----------



## InvalidID

willow_girl said:


> Did anyone take advantage of today's opportunity to buy on the dip?
> 
> I picked up 200 shares of CLNE after it dropped almost a buck right at the opener. It had already started to edge back up ... it gained back about 35 cents and I finished the day in the black.
> 
> DH just laughed when I said I might actually go long on it this time. I told him that he shouldn't be surprised that a woman who has been married 4 times has problems with commitment! ound:
> 
> *Let's hope for a rally tomorrow, eh? :teehee:*


 Let's hope my BA shares get a nice bounce when they report Wed morning. I've been dragging my butt around like a dog with worms all day...


----------



## willow_girl

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, II!

It's really hard to say which way things will go. It's frustrating to no end when the report is positive but the stock tanks afterwards because of speculation! 

Not so bad if you're going long on it, as it will even out ...

FUN lost 51 cents today .. hmm, I'm tempted! :teehee:


----------



## clovis

InvalidID said:


> I've got my sell order in on RGR at 50.55. I'll keep 5 shares as new freebies and pocket the other 250... assuming we hit 50.55 of course.


I am a little stunned to see the run up of RGR this past week.

I have to admit that I thought a buy at $50.00 on RGR was a little crazy...and a wild bet.

Shows how much I know, right? LOL.


----------



## clovis

I am seriously thinking about selling the T (ATT) that I own.

I've been buying small bites of T over the past 9 or 10 months. I don't own that many shares.

I was surprised to see the stock jump up 1.11 today. It is seriously near it's 52 week high.

I've been buying T for its 5-6% dividend, with the intention of holding it until I retire. At the same time, I'd be dripping the nice dividend back into other dividend paying stocks.

But, at the same time, I am starting to rethink my long term buy-and-hold-til-ya-retire mindset.

I am seriously thinking about clipping off the profit I have made so far, and either:

1. Buying another dividend payer, like EXC, which has an Ex-date in May
2. Holding the cash until T falls back to the $28 range, and buying it back

Thoughts? Ideas? Philosophies you wanna share?


----------



## Tobster

Clovis, when is the next installment for the dividend to be paid? Don't jump ship if you have a check coming soon. I understand the 52 week high concern, but keep this in mind, although you are retiring the risk of ATT, you will take on a new risk with the next stock you purchase. There is no way to avoid risk and make a nice return. (If you find one please let me know, LOL ) I like the idea of Blue Chip stocks that pay a consistent dividend as retirement approaches. As Hercule Poirot often says, you have the little gray cells of the brain working. Good job.


----------



## clovis

The last ex-date for T was 4/5/12, and the date of record was 4/10/12, and is payable 5/1/12.

My real hope would be to sell my T, and pick up another stock, like EXC, which has been hammered as of late, and near its 52 week low. It would be nice to buy the EXC, pick up the dividend, dump it as soon as I can break even...or maybe a little better, and repurchase T again before it goes ex-dividend in July.

FWIW, I like T for the long term, even though they still have the T-mobile break up deal hanging over their head. As well, I'm not trying to avoid risk as much as I am hoping to make some profit, and get back into T on a dip. (I'm currently crunching numbers right now to see if it makes sense to do the deal.)

At any rate, *thank you* for helping. This is all pretty new to me, even though I've been in the market for a while, and I appreciate all the input and help that I can get.


----------



## InvalidID

clovis said:


> The last ex-date for T was 4/5/12, and the date of record was 4/10/12, and is payable 5/1/12.
> 
> My real hope would be to sell my T, and pick up another stock, like EXC, which has been hammered as of late, and near its 52 week low. It would be nice to buy the EXC, pick up the dividend, dump it as soon as I can break even...or maybe a little better, and repurchase T again before it goes ex-dividend in July.
> 
> FWIW, I like T for the long term, even though they still have the T-mobile break up deal hanging over their head. As well, I'm not trying to avoid risk as much as I am hoping to make some profit, and get back into T on a dip. (I'm currently crunching numbers right now to see if it makes sense to do the deal.)
> http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5859847
> At any rate, *thank you* for helping. This is all pretty new to me, even though I've been in the market for a while, and I appreciate all the input and help that I can get.


 The first thing I would do is crunch the numbers on your profit. If you sold today how many shares would you be able to keep and still break even or turn a small profit on your original investment? I'd keep that many shares just because they're free. I tend to think T is going to show a little profit taking once it hits (if it hits) it's high. Problem is if it blows through the high it's likely to run away from you. I don't follow T close enough to tell give odds though.

If you decide to sell make sure you know where you're going next before you pull the trigger. 

RGR... Yeah everyone thinks I'm crazy every time I pick up more. Not enough people following the Ruger saga I guess. I bought a LOT of RGR back when they traded just above 7. They had a cast parts division that was sucking money from a very profitable gun business and were in the process of selling it off. I knew there was a pop coming.

Then the world got a little crazier and people started feeling the need to get a CCW. Ruger has a decent selection of small hand guns. Lots of folks wanting a beginner rifle too, of which the 10-22 is kinda the standard. Lots of other folks wanting a rifle they can easily convert to full auto (illegally, don't do it!) which the 10-22 is one of the easiest I hear. So sales are UP!

Also, being as I've been following the stock and company pretty closely for so long I have a feel for it. 50 seems to be the bottom right now. Anytime RGR dips below 50 value buyers (and company insiders) start buying it up. Good bet to follow them in, or even make them follow you.


----------



## clovis

Well, I've crunched the numbers, and so far, I think I am going to hold off on selling. 

The most of what I own was purchased cheap in the $27 range, but when I started analyzing my other buy points, I am in at $30.

My philosophy, to date, has been a little like Warren Buffet, and what he has said about Coke stock. He says "Any time is a good time to buy KO". I've taken that idea and created the thought that "Any time is a good time to buy a strong dividend stock." With this said, I've been picking up small bites of shares here and there, often when I get enough dividends built up, and often, I've probably bought in a few times at higher prices than I would have liked. 

So, when I look at the charts, and compare the profits and risk...I think I would be better off, right now, just to keep holding on to what I have.

Nonetheless, I do *very much appreciate the input.* I really do. This thread has helped me become a better investor, and has helped me develop new ways of thinking about the market.


----------



## Tobster

Clovis, it sounds as though you are doing your research and making decisions that fit your comfort level. I am no different than anyone else when it comes to value and buying stocks on a pullback. I am looking at 3 stocks now and trying to pick a support level on which to buy. IMO this is not a bull market, so any pullback is viewed with a skeptical eye. If one normally opened a position with $25,000 in stock, perhaps buying only $15,000 is wiser at this time. There are better times to load up and other times to tread lightly, I am treading lightly.


----------



## clovis

I totally agree, Tobster. If we actually are in a bull market, I tend to believe that we are at the tail end of it.


----------



## clovis

Oh, on my T situation, I might have a different thought in the morning if the stock gaps up significantly.


----------



## InvalidID

Oh yeah, a little note for the metal bugs. SLV fell under 30 today. Might be a good time to get some silver...


----------



## clovis

InvalidID said:


> Oh yeah, a little note for the metal bugs. SLV fell under 30 today. Might be a good time to get some silver...


Yikes! 

I like silver too, but only as a physical asset...and never, ever on paper.

Why is it that I am always dead dog broke when silver has a serious pullback or correction?


----------



## willow_girl

> Let's hope my BA shares get a nice bounce when they report Wed morning. I've been dragging my butt around like a dog with worms all day...


Right now, Etrade is showing Boeing up 99 cents in aftermarket! This is prior to the report being released, but it's looking good! Good luck! 

Well, so much for going long on CLNE ... it made $100 for me, so I dumped it! 

It ended the day at $18.10, which was right where I sold it. Was happy not to have left money on the table ... for a change! :hysterical:

And I can always buy it back again on a dip, right? :shrug:

That sale brings my net (after trading fees) to $1470 for the year.


----------



## InvalidID

willow_girl said:


> Right now, Etrade is showing Boeing up 99 cents in aftermarket! This is prior to the report being released, but it's looking good! Good luck!
> 
> Well, so much for going long on CLNE ... it made $100 for me, so I dumped it!
> 
> It ended the day at $18.10, which was right where I sold it. Was happy not to have left money on the table ... for a change! :hysterical:
> 
> And I can always buy it back again on a dip, right? :shrug:
> 
> That sale brings my net (after trading fees) to $1470 for the year.


 That after market pop has me in the black already. If the report is as good as I expect I'll be in good shape.

I see you have the same 'problem' as me. You see profit so you take it. There might be more to be made, but why risk it if you're already winning!


----------



## willow_girl

Exactly! 

DH picked up some Apple stock a few weeks ago and has been upside-down to the tune of more than 12 percent ... OUCH! But it reported today, and had (IIRC) record earnings, and it's up _$43_ a share (yes, you read that right) in aftermarket, so he might escape by the skin of his teeth! :teehee:

He is only up 5 percent for the year. Today I suggested that he ought to hire me as his fund manager! He did not like that one bit. ound:


----------



## InvalidID

willow_girl said:


> Exactly!
> 
> DH picked up some Apple stock a few weeks ago and has been upside-down to the tune of more than 12 percent ... OUCH! But it reported today, and had (IIRC) record earnings, and it's up _$43_ a share (yes, you read that right) in aftermarket, so he might escape by the skin of his teeth! :teehee:
> 
> He is only up 5 percent for the year. Today I suggested that he ought to hire me as his fund manager! He did not like that one bit. ound:


 Apple is almost over. Steve Jobs is dead and Apple will die with him, it'll just take a few years for the things in the pipeline (things he had a hand in) to work their way through.

You see Walmex today? Holy ----!


----------



## willow_girl

Yup, they got spanked!

Interestingly enough, when I looked up their stock symbol, I found that their Mexican subsidiary apparently is held independently and trades on the pink sheets! Their stock is valued at only $2.75, and it was off more than 4 percent today.

BTW, I concur with your view of Apple.


----------



## clovis

What is the stock symbol? I'd like to look it up, just for grins.

FWIW, on a similar note to what you've said about Apple, I think the real Walmart died when Sam Walton did. A few years ago, Charlie Rose interviewed a retired CEO of Walmart, and basically, what I got from the conversation was: 

1. We don't do business like Sam did
2. We no longer have to be the cheapest in the marketplace
3. We are now focused on shareholder return

I think those CEO's have forgotten what Sam did to get them there, and they will eventually pay the price. It is hard to imagine that Walmart might be a footnote in a history book, right next to Woolworth and A & P.

Okay, I'm stepping off my soapbox for the time being.


----------



## willow_girl

I think Apple is AAPL.

I agree with your take on Wal-Mart, too.


----------



## clovis

What is the symbol for Walmart of Mexico?


----------



## willow_girl

WMMVF

My LSI is actually UP today! More than 4 percent ... wow. I'm only $165 upside-down on it now. Maybe there is hope for it yet! 

Apple is up more than $49 a share ... 

DH still is $600 upside-down on it, though.


----------



## InvalidID

Wooooooooooooo! Ba


----------



## clovis

Nice job on the BA!!!!!

Did you sell, or are you still holding?

Congrats either way!!!!!


----------



## InvalidID

clovis said:


> Nice job on the BA!!!!!
> 
> Did you sell, or are you still holding?
> 
> Congrats either way!!!!!


 I sold at 77.00 I'm not sure I trust the numbers they put out, but I knew they would report well anyway. I of course kept some free shares, as is my general habit.


----------



## willow_girl

Way to go, II!!!! :thumb:


----------



## clovis

InvalidID said:


> I sold at 77.00 I'm not sure I trust the numbers they put out, but I knew they would report well anyway. I of course kept some free shares, as is my general habit.


Okay, I am curious.

When you keep some shares of a company, as you did with BA and RGR, what and how does that affect your tax liability on the profits?

It seems that it would be advantageous to keep the shares to reduce year end tax liability.


----------



## InvalidID

clovis said:


> Okay, I am curious.
> 
> When you keep some shares of a company, as you did with BA and RGR, what and how does that affect your tax liability on the profits?
> 
> It seems that it would be advantageous to keep the shares to reduce year end tax liability.


 You're only taxed on profit so holding shares long term means less taxes today. Of course if you hold them for (I think) 13 months it's taxed as capital gains instead of at your regular rate. This is what accountants are for!

I would add, don't be afraid of taxes. If you're paying more taxes it means you're making more money. If you're making more money it's a good thing.


----------



## InvalidID

Did anyone get in on SLV with me? I got a little something out of it but called it today. Meh, it wasn't the pop I'd hoped for but up is up...


----------



## okiemom

Taxes are why I like to buy for dividend. cap gains at current income rate could eat your lunch but div. are much less.. Which is why Romney was beat up about it not too long ago..

also a farm is great for reducing tax liability. 

Thx for this thread i am enjoying seeing and learning the differnet styles and trying to grow my own. 

ps typing in car watching sons and friends. man this is hard. maybe I need to be doing some research now instead f typing.


----------



## dunroven

So I'm wondering if you can point me in the direction of a good book for a very, very new person at this to read to find out how to do all of this, or a website or something?

I read this entire thread last night and I had not one clue of what any of you were saying. Its like you were speaking a foreign language. I'm going to be 53 this year and I have no retirement plan, don't have a clue what I'm going to do and I'm a little concerned. I don't think I can work the rest of my life due to many conditions, but I'm also sure that I won't survive on disability, social security and entitlement programs, mainly because that's just not the way I want to do things. But I need to find something that can start with a tiny, tiny amount of money, and start making its own way. I have no IRA or anything like that, because we don't have the money to put into one.

I have no savings whatsoever, and my checkbook is just dripping with being on the edge of red, almost every day. So what can I do to get started. I need something, if there is something in the magical world of stocks, etc., that WILL give me a retirement fund, AND if possible, will help with a little money coming in the mail?

Thanks for any direction you can give me.

Valorie


----------



## clovis

Dunroven,

I am a strong believer in solid stocks that pay have a long history of paying great dividends. I don't have much of a retirement saved either, and nearly everything I have is in the form of dividend stocks.

Everything I own, with the exception of one stock, is paying a 5% dividend or higher. I personally think this is the best way to build a little wealth, especially if you can't start with a big bank account.

Simply stated, those dividends pay 4 times a year. I take those dividends, along with whatever else I can save, and buy more dividend paying stocks. While still very small, this plan is working well, and is growing pretty quickly, at least for the scale that I am on.

This method is called drip or dripping. It is a take on a thing called *d*ividend *r*e*i*nvesting *p*rogram that some companies offer with their stock. I just do my drip program on my own. 

I am also a very strong believer in "you gotta start somewhere". Even if this means saving just $25 a month, or $10 a week. Open an account with an online with Scottrade or another broker. Scottrade will open an account for just $500...but my local Scottrade office says that they'll open for just $100.

Your library should have tons of books for the newbie to stock investing.


----------



## willow_girl

There also was an earlier stock trading thread in this forum .. might want to check that out, too!


----------



## InvalidID

dunroven said:


> So I'm wondering if you can point me in the direction of a good book for a very, very new person at this to read to find out how to do all of this, or a website or something?
> 
> I read this entire thread last night and I had not one clue of what any of you were saying. Its like you were speaking a foreign language. I'm going to be 53 this year and I have no retirement plan, don't have a clue what I'm going to do and I'm a little concerned. I don't think I can work the rest of my life due to many conditions, but I'm also sure that I won't survive on disability, social security and entitlement programs, mainly because that's just not the way I want to do things. But I need to find something that can start with a tiny, tiny amount of money, and start making its own way. I have no IRA or anything like that, because we don't have the money to put into one.
> 
> I have no savings whatsoever, and my checkbook is just dripping with being on the edge of red, almost every day. So what can I do to get started. I need something, if there is something in the magical world of stocks, etc., that WILL give me a retirement fund, AND if possible, will help with a little money coming in the mail?
> 
> Thanks for any direction you can give me.
> 
> Valorie


 Val,

If you ave no savings and your checkbook is edging on red stocks can do nothing for you. Harsh reality is there is no magic here and there is no way to invest without money.

So first thing I'd do is look into Dave Ramsey.


----------



## dunroven

I LOVE the Dave Ramsey program; however, my husband is a stubborn man and will not even consider reading his book or doing his program, so I'm hoping to try to make little bits of money here and there that I can pay bills with and then possibly get something going, that's the point behind my working a full time job, raising and selling my cats and rabbits, selling plants, and doing mystery shopping. My theory is that every penny is one more toward the top of the hole, but that hole is incredibly deep. I'm trying but its hard when you are doing it on your own.

I'll check out some books cause I feel like while I'm doing all of this working, I also need to be at least preparing to get something put away, and if I can get it figured out before I'm to the point of investing, I can know what to look for at the time I'm there. Do you have a particular author or a particular book you would recommend as a beginner book?


----------



## clovis

FWIW, I am a huge fan of Dave Ramsey too. I've worked the plan, and it works like a dream. Too bad your DH isn't on board with you.

If you make headway on your debt, I think dividend stocks are the way to go. Small investments work just fine, as you get the money. Dividend stocks are pretty boring...this is building wealth slowly, and won't make you an overnight millionaire.

Your library should have tons of books for the beginner investor. I've read some of the Motley Fool books, and like them very well.


----------



## clovis

Oh, and there is a site called Investopedia.

It is a great site if you want to know what a word or term is. It is a very in depth place for any type of investor question.


----------



## InvalidID

Val, at 53 I honestly suggest you work on debt above all else. A mortgage is one thing but credit cards and car loans are no good at that age. I know it's not the stock advice you want, but clearing out debt is the better investment for 90% of people. (Most people don't use debt wisely)

If you have debt but good credit I'd suggest looking into ways to leverage that credit and using it to pay off personal debt. Apt. buildings are something to consider. Housing market be ----ed, people NEED a place to live. Rental income is pretty steady provided you approach it right.

Also, if you have equity on your home and can get refi at a lower rate (with some cash back) it can work in your favor as well. Taking the extra money to pay off car notes and credit cards is almost always worth it. 

Of course these things are all a person by person issue. I really don't know your situation and as such any suggestions are kinda broad, which is also a legal requirement... LOL


----------



## clovis

Invalid,

Can you believe RGR? I put RGR on my watch list...it is up over $7. 

I would have said that $50 a share was far too risky to make a play. This is probably the reason some will retire rich, and I'll spend my retirement years watching Judge Judy on a black and white TV.

LOL.


----------



## InvalidID

clovis said:


> Invalid,
> 
> Can you believe RGR? I put RGR on my watch list...it is up over $7.
> 
> I would have said that $50 a share was far too risky to make a play. This is probably the reason some will retire rich, and I'll spend my retirement years watching Judge Judy on a black and white TV.
> 
> LOL.


 Hehe, I do so love that stock. I have about 1200 shares and I'm hoping we see 60!


----------



## willow_girl

Go! Go! Go!


----------



## InvalidID

Nabbed a little more SLV at 29.20. Here's hoping Monday or Tuesday does me proud...

Also with RGR pulling back the last few days I'm starting to look for a place to get back in.


----------



## clovis

Do any of you have an opinion about RDS/A?

It is Royal Dutch Shell, has a decent dividend with a strong history of paying out, and a low P/E.

What do you think about this stock for a long term buy and hold?


----------



## Tobster

clovis said:


> Do any of you have an opinion about RDS/A?
> 
> It is Royal Dutch Shell, has a decent dividend with a strong history of paying out, and a low P/E.
> 
> What do you think about this stock for a long term buy and hold?


Clovis, I did not have an opinion of RDS . . . the A shares prior to you calling it to my attention. If you look at the chart you will see it is making lower highs and lower lows, some may say that is bearish HOWEVER notice that it filled a gap today. Also, look at the longer term chart ( weekly ) . . . Let me say again, I don't know the fundamentals on this company and you are asking about long term.

I will tell you what I am going to do . . . between 69 and 68 I am a buyer, below 66 I will exit and take my medicine. Those parameters in my opinion allow for a low risk trade. I like to play a gap fill. Often when you see a gap filled, a bounce higher follows, if it does not, then it does not cost much to test the waters. (You are always going to have losses, try to keep them small ) If I get a bounce after buying, I will add to my position if it breaks above 72 and use the 50 day MA as a stop to exit. When you look at the chart pay attention to where volume is high or low. Thanks for the heads up, I will be watching this Monday. If you want to play it safe, wait until it breaks 72 and then wait for a pullback to the 50 day MA to take a position.


----------



## fordy

......................Calpers just filed a Lawsuit against the W. Mt. BOD'ers so Their stock may experience .......'Dividendus Interruptus'.........due too their potentially , illegal handling of the Mexican bribes paid during their store expansion in MexicO ! Other , similiar suits are sure too follow ! , fordy:flameproofundies:


----------



## willow_girl

> Do any of you have an opinion about RDS/A?
> 
> It is Royal Dutch Shell, has a decent dividend with a strong history of paying out, and a low P/E.


That is a sweet dividend!!!

FUN and CLNE both dropped on Friday ... hmmm.

*Chanting my mantra, "Sell in May and stay away! Sell in May and stay away!"*


----------



## clovis

Tobster,

I think I am going to wait and see how the market opens in the morning. I might make a small buy of RDS/A if it drops much.

Thank you so much for your input!!!!! It is appreciated!!!!


----------



## clovis

The overnight Asian markets have taken a hit, and I just read an article that oil markets are down.

If this is true, I am guessing that the US markets will take a hit in the morning, so I'll hold off on the RDS/A, even though the ex-date is 5/09.


----------



## InvalidID

Well, I got booted out of my RGR position this morning. Trailing stop at 49.57..or 59? Doesn't matter, I'm clear now. Was a good run up from 7-14ish to the high 40s though. One of my personal best!

Now... do I want to get back in or wait for the shakeup to finish....


----------



## willow_girl

Is anyone buying the Facebook IPO? It's going to be offered through eTrade. DH called yesterday and he is lined up to get (IIRC) 200 shares. I said "no thank you" ... IPOs are too risky for this girl! Although ,,,,,, hmmm.


----------



## InvalidID

willow_girl said:


> Is anyone buying the Facebook IPO? It's going to be offered through eTrade. DH called yesterday and he is lined up to get (IIRC) 200 shares. I said "no thank you" ... IPOs are too risky for this girl! Although ,,,,,, hmmm.


 IPO, no. I'll look again 30-60 after though.


----------



## clovis

*HOT STOCK TIP!!!!
HOT STOCK TIP!!!!
HOT STOCK TIP!!!! *

You should take a short position on RDS/A...I just took a small bite of this stock, and since every stock that I've ever bought goes down in value after I buy it, you should all short the daylights out of RDS/A.

LOL.


----------



## clovis

Anyone looking to get in on the Facebook IPO, set for May 18?

What do you think of FB as an investment?

Do you like IPO's, as a general rule?


----------



## Michael W. Smith

clovis said:


> Anyone looking to get in on the Facebook IPO, set for May 18? What do you think of FB as an investment? Do you like IPO's, as a general rule?


IPO's are wonderful investments - IF you pick the big upcoming company that's going to quadruple in a short time. You always hear about "If you had invested $10,000 when _______ first went public, your shares would now be $609,050.00."

They fail to mention "If you had invested $10,000 when _______ first went public, your shares would now be worth $0, because the company went bankrupt after 5 years."

I have to invest in a company that actually makes something, or sells something tangible. XOM - is in the oil and gas business. HE produces and sells electric. MCD - sells burgers and fries.

Facebook sells ads to make money. Ads don't seem "tanglible" to me. 

Some IPO's go quickly up in the first few days of trading, and then loses steam as it's not the "new kid on the block".
Some IPO's go up and stay up. Some IPO's just slide into bankruptsy.

If you have an extra $1000.00 laying around that you want to turn into $10,000.00 - get in on Facebook. If you have an extra $1000.00 laying around that you want to throw away - get in on Facebook.


----------



## Tobster

clovis said:


> Anyone looking to get in on the Facebook IPO, set for May 18?
> 
> What do you think of FB as an investment?
> 
> Do you like IPO's, as a general rule?


If you know the true or fundamental value of Facebook it will be possible while observing the initial offered price, you could determine if the stock is undervalued or overvalued. Knowing that, you are making an informed decision about whether to buy or not. I don't know if anyone actually knows the fundamental value of FB, therefore any price you pay for the stock should be considered a speculative play and not viewed as an investment.

IMO, an investment would be the purchase of a stock currently undervalued with a future prospect of growth based on a strong balance sheet with consistent earnings and dividends. Undervalued stocks appear often because the market is driven by emotions, fear and price volatility and the current price offered seldom reflects the true price (or value) of the stock.


----------



## clovis

clovis said:


> *HOT STOCK TIP!!!!
> HOT STOCK TIP!!!!
> HOT STOCK TIP!!!! *
> 
> You should take a short position on RDS/A...I just took a small bite of this stock, and since every stock that I've ever bought goes down in value after I buy it, you should all short the daylights out of RDS/A.
> 
> LOL.


I hope you all made some money on my hot stock tip.

I bought RDS/A at $67.57. If you look at the chart, the stock dropped to $65.66 each. That is two full points.

See, I do give great stock tips. 

You can forward your finders fees/commissions to me. Just PM me for a mailing address.

LOL.


----------



## clovis

Tobster,

I totally agree with your thoughts on the FB IPO.


----------



## Halfway

PSX anyone?


----------



## clovis

PSX...that looks like a good stock to follow.

I might add that to my watch list.

What do you think of it?


----------



## InvalidID

Hot stock tip. Buy shares of Altria because someone took a BIG bite out of RGR and has smoked a pack of Marlboro's in the last 4 hours and is working on the next pack at break neck speed.


----------



## InvalidID

Three words, just three words....

Who's Your Daddy! :FLEX:


----------



## clovis

Invalid, are you back in on RGR?

Are you willing to share any other trades that are currently in the works?


----------



## willow_girl

InvalidID said:


> Three words, just three words....
> 
> Who's Your Daddy! :FLEX:


Up $2.37 today! Nice work!


----------



## InvalidID

willow_girl said:


> Up $2.37 today! Nice work!


 I averaged 2.90! It was a big deal because I had pretty much my whole nut riding on that. Smoked so many ciggs I'll need an inhaler tomorrow... LOL


----------



## InvalidID

clovis said:


> Invalid, are you back in on RGR?
> 
> Are you willing to share any other trades that are currently in the works?


 I dumped most of it during the last few hours of trading. Like I said above, I had pretty much everything on that play. Dunno if I 'knew' it would be good but I had a feeling it would. 

I'm taking a week off (maybe half the summer LOL) but I'll be watching for something else to come along. I think RGR likely has a little more room to run though. I expect it'll break 50 before mid month, provided there isn't a major market scare between now and then.


----------



## willow_girl

InvalidID said:


> I averaged 2.90! It was a big deal because I had pretty much my whole nut riding on that. Smoked so many ciggs I'll need an inhaler tomorrow... LOL


I'll bet! ound:


----------



## clovis

Halfway said:


> PSX anyone?


Did I read that PSX was a new spin off of COP?

I know that most people don't like Jim Cramer on Mad Money, but he recommended not buying either stock, if I read it correctly.

ETA: Scottrade is down for maintenance right now, so I can't check to see if my info is correct.


----------



## InvalidID

clovis said:


> Did I read that PSX was a new spin off of COP?
> 
> I know that most people don't like Jim Cramer on Mad Money, but he recommended not buying either stock, if I read it correctly.
> 
> ETA: Scottrade is down for maintenance right now, so I can't check to see if my info is correct.


 I generally don't follow Cramer's buys and such, and I might watch his sells for a gap trade... But if he says stay away generally I take that to heart. If for no other reason than he has a horde of zombie traders following him around.


----------



## Halfway

clovis said:


> Did I read that PSX was a new spin off of COP?
> 
> I know that most people don't like Jim Cramer on Mad Money, but he recommended not buying either stock, if I read it correctly.
> 
> ETA: Scottrade is down for maintenance right now, so I can't check to see if my info is correct.


PSX is the phillips 66 spin off from COP. This is an investment based on value and not likely on Cramer's radar. He is better at squaking on tv than trading and is not an investor by any stretch. Kind of an ADHD Don Knots in the leveraged trading world. :smack


----------



## clovis

I happen to like Cramer, FWIW.

I don't follow his buy recommendations or calls to sell, but I do enjoy the show, that is, when I get to watch it. (We are the last home in the Western Free World that doesn't have cable TV.)

I have learned quite a bit from watching his show, if nothing else, to understand how others view a stock or the markets.


----------



## Halfway

clovis said:


> I happen to like Cramer, FWIW.
> 
> I don't follow his buy recommendations or calls to sell, but I do enjoy the show, that is, when I get to watch it. (We are the last home in the Western Free World that doesn't have cable TV.)
> 
> I have learned quite a bit from watching his show, if nothing else, to understand how others view a stock or the markets.


He is both knowledgeable and entertaining. He is making much more money now with considerably less stress. He is a more short term focused analyst though.

He writes some good articles where he can actually elaborate further on fundamentals and current issues. Stock Market Today - Financial News, Quotes and Analysis - TheStreet


----------



## willow_girl

My husband loves Cramer. I find him entertaining, but I figure by the time he highlights something, it's too late! Won't be a good deal anymore, due to the aforementioned herd of zombies. I want to be _ahead_ of the curve -- I'm always delighted when he pumps a stock a couple days _after_ I bought it. Heh! :teehee:


----------



## willow_girl

RNDY

Opinions?


----------



## Guest

I got a big strangle on SHLD for tomorrow. 10 weeks of profit, all in.


----------



## InvalidID

willow_girl said:


> RNDY
> 
> Opinions?


 Cramer likes it. LOL


----------



## InvalidID

zong said:


> I got a big strangle on SHLD for tomorrow. 10 weeks of profit, all in.


 Sears? You're braver than I am. I don't shop there let alone buy shares.

My main problem with Sears is they have become nothing but a high end Wal Mart of sorts. Used to be you went to Sears for good service and knowledgeable staff. Those days are long gone though I think. Now you can buy anything Sears sells for a better price somewhere else, often with better service.

Of course the trend on Sears is down as well. Looking at the 3 month chart it peaked mid march after a big run up and has been down ever since. The 2 year and 5 year charts show an increase in volatility which isn't really surprising, that's pretty much everything recently.

That said, I don't follow Sears nearly close enough to make a solid call on it. If you think there is a pop to be had I'm not willing to call you on it. I do wish you great luck! I'm just afraid of the mid level retail space as there is a lot of downward pressure from the economy and competition.

ETA: They are below the 50 day moving average so there is a little room to the upside...


----------



## Guest

Ehh. You need to look up "Options strangle" I'm betting the price will move either under 47.50 or over 55. The more the better. My breakeven from the 50/52.5 strangle.


----------



## InvalidID

zong said:


> Ehh. You need to look up "Options strangle" I'm betting the price will move either under 47.50 or over 55. The more the better. My breakeven from the 50/52.5 strangle.


 Interesting. I don't mess with options very often as they can get me in trouble. If I want leverage I usually go with futures as it's something I've taken more time to study and understand better.


----------



## Guest

With options, you have an unlimited profit potential, but a limited loss potential. I entered the SHLD 52.5/55 yesterday and took a 46c(20%) per position profit earlier, rolled into the 50/52.5. If theres a 10% gain possible by the end of the day, I'll take that. No stress at all once I'm out. I don't need all the money. Heck, $7 a day will pay my cost of living.


----------



## InvalidID

zong said:


> With options, you have an unlimited profit potential, but a limited loss potential. I entered the SHLD 52.5/55 yesterday and took a 46c(20%) per position profit earlier, rolled into the 50/52.5. If theres a 10% gain possible by the end of the day, I'll take that. No stress at all once I'm out. I don't need all the money. Heck, $7 a day will pay my cost of living.


 I understand that. I don't need much anymore either and pretty much covered my costs playing the swings on RGR earlier. I'll have to read up a little more on playing with options, might be fun. I have been getting bored lately with all my extra free time...


----------



## Guest

Boink!! Just came back in and exited. In at 2.50, out at 2.81 12.4% profit. It would be better now, but I'm good.


----------



## willow_girl

InvalidID said:


> Cramer likes it. LOL


So that's where my husband got it! He bought it awhile back ... at one point, he was up $800-900. Then its earnings report came out, and it beat estimates, but the CEO revised guidelines for the rest of the year, and it dropped like a rock. 

I picked some up while it was down ... it's continued to go down, but not catastrophically. Looks like they're going to offer a divided later in the year; a big one, too! Might hang on to this one for awhile.

Whew, only lost $44 today! Was expecting the bleeding to be much worse ... :teehee:


----------



## willow_girl

Well, DH only managed to score 50 shares of Facebook. (He had requested 200.)

It's starting off at $38.

Now, the big question ... hold or sell? :teehee:


----------



## Bret

I laughed inside yesterday when I coined the expression to myself "buy in may and watch it go away." I also mused that I have to be willing to walk on the beach to pick up a few interesting shells when you can smell all of the dead fish around you.

I enjoy cramer too. I want him to slow down a little because he winds me up too tight just before I turn out the light. 

It's more fun directing your decision...so sell some when you see a spike and hold a few for souvenirs of this historic moment.


----------



## InvalidID

Hey Willow, did your hubby sell at the massive high of 50,000 Euro's a share on FB?


----------



## clovis

Okay, did I get this right? 

The volume that FB did on the NASDAQ caused the exchange's servers to crash? Is it true that those on the floor had to manually enter trades...and actually write them on paper?

Is there anyone on the NASDAQ floor that is old enough to remember how to write an order on paper? 

Does anyone here remember when your local broker wrote your order on triplicate, and then asked you to sign it?

I was amazed and awed back in '81 or '82 when I learned that my local broker had a computer with a mono-chrome screen at the front desk, and it showed current prices on the major markets. I vividly remember the secretary telling me "Some day in the future, the customer will be able to walk in, and place the stock order themselves, right here on the front desk computer, and we will be here to answer any questions. We might even have two or three computers for people to use."

I also remember thinking "If I just had one of those computers at home, I could buy and sell throughout the day, and make money off those stocks." I remember a few of my dad's coworkers thinking that my idea was hysterical, and laughed out loud.

Wait a minute...is this thread drift, or what?


----------



## lonelyfarmgirl

Ok, so explain something to me. Facebook opened at 38 for the IPO. It fluctuated slightly throughout the day, some billion amount of shares were bought and sold, and at the end of the day, the value, still around 38. Why? 

Wouldn't so many people buying those shares all at once cause the value to increase? I saw all these news articles about how the first day was going to make people millionaires. Doesn't look like it to me. 

So now what?


----------



## TNHermit

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> Ok, so explain something to me. Facebook opened at 38 for the IPO. It fluctuated slightly throughout the day, some billion amount of shares were bought and sold, and at the end of the day, the value, still around 38. Why?
> 
> Wouldn't so many people buying those shares all at once cause the value to increase? I saw all these news articles about how the first day was going to make people millionaires. Doesn't look like it to me.
> 
> So now what?


this will tell you some

Morgan Stanley made big bet on Facebook | Reuters


----------



## willow_girl

Totally stunned at the way Facebook went off! 

Been working all day, so haven't had time to delve into the commentary ...


----------



## clovis

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> Ok, so explain something to me. Facebook opened at 38 for the IPO. It fluctuated slightly throughout the day, some billion amount of shares were bought and sold, and at the end of the day, the value, still around 38. Why?
> 
> Wouldn't so many people buying those shares all at once cause the value to increase? I saw all these news articles about how the first day was going to make people millionaires. Doesn't look like it to me.
> 
> So now what?


The way I understand it is that when a company has an IPO, the investment banks take possession of the shares from the company before the IPO. These banks are called underwriters.

The underwriters, along with the company going public, determine a value of the company, and the number of shares.

In the case of FB, someone determined that they could sell 2.1 Billion shares, and they thought they could be worth $38 each. So, 2.1 billion shares X $38 a share = about $80 Billion.

The multiple underwriters play a cat and mouse game of monitoring supply and demand of the shares as the IPO takes place. If frenzied demand forces the price up, the underwriters allow more shares to go onto the market place. If the market doesn't re-act kindly to an IPO, the underwriters might hold the majority of the shares until the price goes up.

With some IPO's, demand will sometimes cause the stock price to quadruple, or more...making millionaires out of some traders...but sometimes, the news forgets to tell you that the underwriters carefully limited the number of shares that went onto the market the first day. 

In a nutshell, the underwriters don't just plop 2.1 Billion shares onto an open market, and say, "Have at 'er, boys. We'll tally it all up at the end of the day." This could cause a stock to be nearly worthless. 

My guess is that some believed that FB could have doubled in the first day, making millionaires out of some traders.

Does this answer your question? Does it make any sense?


----------



## InvalidID

Here's what I got form the whole FB IPO. MS ran a tight TIGHT ship on this one. They stepped on a lot of toes doing so, almost the entire banking and investing worlds toes. If I were a tin foil hat guy, or if I thought bankers and investors were spiteful people...

I'd say that others did everything they could to trip MS up on this thing. From trading glitches to dropping fistfuls of shares whenever the price started to climb. All this to keep prices low and screw MS. MS however seemed prepared and bought shares when the prices started to drop, and not on the open market. They had shares in reserve and they'd just purchase whatever was needed to maintain the price. 

I think MS comes out of this looking like hero's to future tech IPO's and have just secured a spot as the #1 underwriter of choose for a few years. I think FB shares will trend higher on Monday, even if only slightly. Over the rest of the year I expect FB shares will be fun to watch but will be fairly steady in price as MS has more than a few shares to unload.

Of course I'm not privy to inside info and this is only what I surmise from watching the day unfold along with publicly available information.


----------



## TNHermit

Every professional pundit on the weekend shows are making all kinds of excuse for the FB debacle. Still pushing the "its earth shattering " mime though


----------



## clovis

Interesting thoughts on the FB IPO...makes you wonder, doesn't it?

As a side note, I thought it was funny that GM announced, _this week_, of all times, to say that they would no longer buy advertising on FB. Makes you wonder who was behind that stunt, and for what reason...


----------



## clovis

Wow...

FB and RGR getting hammered in the first hour of the markets opening.


----------



## InvalidID

Yeah, that's ugly isn't it? I'm glad I decided to take the summer off... LOL


----------



## willow_girl

So much for going long on RNDY ... ound:

Well, my intentions were good, anyway. And I made $80!

In this market, I'll take it ...and run! :teehee:


----------



## willow_girl

DH is down almost 9% on FB. OUCH ...!


----------



## InvalidID

It's been pretty ugly out there that's for sure. The timing of the FB IPO was really unfortunate wasn't it?

I am glad I bailed when I did. Better to be lucky than good they say.


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Regarding FB, it almost sounds like while FB was selling their initial shares, some companies were downgrading it because of updated information on weakened growth forecasts they had received on it. The only problem was, the information was only shared with some companies - not everyone.

Some shareholders are now filing lawsuits. I wouldn't be too surprised to see a class action lawsuit - so willow_girl, your husband may be able to sue.

Currently FB is at $31.80.


----------



## clovis

Hey, fellow traders,

I'd love to get your input on something.

I have been working on building my tiny retirement account. I don't have gobs of money to put into the market, but I am trying to deposit all that I can each week.

I am specifically trying to learn new ways of thinking about my buying strategy.

Currently, I am only buying high yield dividend stocks for long term investing. I am watching super solid stocks with very long dividend histories that yield 5% or more...but I am trying to buy those stocks when I see bargains.

Generally, I like to buy stocks when I have $1,000 or more saved up in my account. This seems to give me the biggest bang for my buck, and amortizes the buy commission of $7 across a larger number of shares.

But, for instance, I have about $400 in my cash account right now, and see a good bargain on EXC, which has hit a new 52 week low. I've been watching this stock for over a year, and already have a small position in the company.

So, what should I do?

Jump in with a tiny investment of only $400, and buy what I can...or wait until I have $1,000 or more, and hope that I can find another stock that fits my buying parameters?

As well, I am trying to figure out my timing and investing. Sometimes, I wrestle with what to do, especially if a stock is cheaply priced, and going ex-dividend, but I only have $300 in my cash account.

I appreciate your thoughts and advice!!!!


----------



## Michael W. Smith

clovis said:


> I have been working on building my tiny retirement account. I don't have gobs of money to put into the market, but I am trying to deposit all that I can each week.
> 
> I am only buying high yield dividend stocks for long term investing. I am watching super solid stocks with very long dividend histories that yield 5% or more...but I am trying to buy those stocks when I see bargains.


Hey Clovis - those "little bits" of money add up over time - especially with reinvested dividends. I guess I have a question for you - since this is retirement money, is it under a ROTH IRA?

The reason I ask, is because with the ROTH IRA, you will pay NO taxes on all once you are in your golden years. No taxes, nothing, nada.

There are several companies that offer direct stock ROTH IRA plans.
Exxon Mobil which pays a 2.80% dividend
McDonalds Corporation paying a 3.10% dividend.
Verizon paying a 4.80% dividend.
American Electric Power paying a 4.90% dividend.

I'm in all of the above except American Electric. Most of them have no fees when you buy, but they do charge a $45.00 annual IRA fee - which sounds like you are probably paying already with your $7.00 purchase fee.

They might not be up to your 5% dividend you usually buy - but all are good solid companies. And once you have an account open, most only require a $50.00 minimum investment.

Now, I will agree that the one downside of direct purchase stocks - is you really have no control over when they are bought. You send in your money and it may take a week or several weeks before your purchase is made - but for the long term investor, that shouldn't matter much.

Just something to think about.


----------



## clovis

MWS,

Thank you so much for the post, and for the reply to my PM.

I like VZ and AEP, and am looking to get in, at some point, on both of them. I'm still kicking myself for ignoring the last low on VZ. (What was I thinking?)

MCD could be a decent stock, but there are several that I like a little better. 

So, what do you think? Jump in with small bites, like the $400 I have now, or wait until I have it built up, in the $1,000 range?

One downside to buying EXC, with it's current pullback is that I'll have to wait just under 3 months to qualify again for the dividend, whereas if I bought BPT, I'd be lined up at the first of July to score the quarterly dividend.


----------



## willow_girl

Clovis, look at RNDY! Their inaugural dividend was over 8%. IIRC, 22 cents on an $11 stock! Yes I am sorry I sold it ... ound:

Even Cramer pumping LSI last night wasn't enough to save it ... it was down another 8 cents today. I'm off more than 22% now, ouch! No more semiconductor stocks after February for this girl. I got greedy and bought one more than I should have! :teehee:


----------



## willow_girl

Seems today was a good day for lots of my favorite stocks ... too bad I don't own any of them at the moment! ound:


----------



## Michael W. Smith

clovis said:


> So, what do you think? Jump in with small bites, like the $400 I have now, or wait until I have it built up, in the $1,000 range?


Well, I guess it all depends on several things. Do you think your stock is going to go up or down over the next several months? None of us have a crystal ball - so investing smaller amounts can be a way of dollar cost averaging. However, if you are going with a company that you are buying direct - my biggest influence would be if there are purchasing fees - is it cheaper to do one big purchase or is it all the same cost by sending in smaller amounts?


----------



## clovis

Michael W. Smith said:


> Well, I guess it all depends on several things. Do you think your stock is going to go up or down over the next several months? None of us have a crystal ball - so investing smaller amounts can be a way of dollar cost averaging. However, if you are going with a company that you are buying direct - my biggest influence would be if there are purchasing fees - is it cheaper to do one big purchase or is it all the same cost by sending in smaller amounts?


It would be cheaper to buy in larger lots. Scottrade charges $7 a trade, or $14 per round trip. 

On one hand, $7 for a stock trade is _dirt cheap._ At the same time, a $7 commission that is amortized over 14 shares is a 50 cent cost, which is often equal to a quarterly dividend, is a cost that I'd like to avoid. 

I do wish I had a crystal ball for the stock market!!!!! Personally, I think stocks are going to get cheap again later this year, but I don't want to miss out on bargains when I can get them. 

I've found, with the retirement plan (LT buy and hold) that I'm working on, that figuring out the timing of buying, and what stocks to buy next, with the small amounts that I have to work with, has been challenging.

I want to be as smart and prudent as possible...but sometimes I feel like I am splitting hairs. I don't want to cost myself $12,000 over the next 20 years because I didn't execute good timing for dividend paying stocks.

For instance, I know a guy that bought many of the same stocks that I did, at about the same time. He's been receiving the dividends all this time, but that cash is just sitting in his account, untouched. He's lost the compounding effect from the dividends, which is something that I want to avoid.


----------



## clovis

I bought a few more shares of BPT today, since it dropped below $110 a share.

I really like BPT, with it's strong 9% dividend. It certainly is a nice payer every quarter.

Now that I've added to my position, you all can short the daylights out of it, LOL. It seems that every stock that I buy craters just after I buy it.

Anyone else buying on today's dips?


----------



## InvalidID

clovis said:


> Anyone else buying on today's dips?


 Nope, my money is in the bunker listening to the bombs drop. :hysterical:


----------



## clovis

Probably a smart move, Invalid.

I happened to catch Jim Cramer last night, and he implied that the market might tank sometime this year. I happen to agree.

I'm one of those weird people that will welcome a down market...just because I might be able to buy stocks on severe dips. As long as those stocks keep paying dividends, and go up dramatically in the next 20 years, I'll be happy. 

I'd like to buy LLY again below $40 again, and I'd like to buy KO under $70.

BTW, what do you all think about BP?

Is BP a good buy, even with the gulf oil leak, or is it too soon to tell?


----------



## willow_girl

> I'm one of those weird people that will welcome a down market...just because I might be able to buy stocks on severe dips.


Oh, if only we could go back to 2007/08, eh?


----------



## clovis

willow_girl said:


> Oh, if only we could go back to 2007/08, eh?


Those were the days...2009

I bought what I could when the market was down. Had I pushed everything I had at the time into the market, I would have never had to work another day in my life.


----------



## Michael W. Smith

clovis said:


> It would be cheaper to buy in larger lots. Scottrade charges $7 a trade, or $14 per round trip.
> 
> On one hand, $7 for a stock trade is _dirt cheap._ At the same time, a $7 commission that is amortized over 14 shares is a 50 cent cost, which is often equal to a quarterly dividend, is a cost that I'd like to avoid.
> 
> I've found, with the retirement plan (LT buy and hold) that I'm working on, that figuring out the timing of buying, and what stocks to buy next, with the small amounts that I have to work with, has been challenging.
> 
> I want to be as smart and prudent as possible...but sometimes I feel like I am splitting hairs. I don't want to cost myself $12,000 over the next 20 years because I didn't execute good timing for dividend paying stocks.


Just remember, that some of those stocks you are buying, you can probably buy direct and may pay NO Purchase fee at all. Some dividends are reinvested with no charge, some charge a small percentage, and some give you a discount when you reinvest the dividends! And some stocks start out with a minimum initial purchase of $250.00 and then $50.00 for additional purchases.

The only problem is, that when you buy direct, you are at the mercy of the mail, and when the next purchase is made. You may send your check in the mail on Monday, they get it on Wednesday, but they won't purchase the stock until the following week. During that time the stocks are moving up, down, or no where. Same thing as when selling them. Purchasing direct is not an "instant" thing.

But I figure if you are buying the stock of good, reliable companies - long term is the way to go. I'll pay nothing, or very little in fees, reinvest the dividends, and ignore the ups and downs. 20 years from now, the purchase price is probably going to seem VERY cheap.


----------



## willow_girl

How do you buy direct, Michael? Curious!

Well, I bought my RNDY back today on a dip. It actually came back a little this afternoon, and I finished the day up $20.

Maybe I'll hang on to it for awhile this time...


----------



## clovis

Anyone make money in today's market bounce? The market was up nearly 300 points.


----------



## willow_girl

NO!!! My new RNDY actually went *down* if you can believe that. GRRRR!

But my other guys (FUN and LSI) both went up so it's all good. 

DH was up $1500 and didn't so much as buy me dinner! (Ha, just kidding -- I worked all day.)


----------



## Michael W. Smith

willow_girl said:


> How do you buy direct, Michael? Curious!


Any company you are looking at buying, google them with the company name and direct stock purchase plan. If you can buy their stock direct, it usually says so in the investor information and tells you how to go about it.

My next purchase I'm making is with AEP - American Electric Power. You buy the stock direct from Computershare (their transfer agent) - you can print out the enrollment form, fill it out, mail it with a check and - you are now a shareholder!

I've been looking at AEP for a while - was going to start an IRA with them, but instead decided to add to my McDonald's IRA. Should have known better, as the stock was at a high and has since gone down since I made my purchase. 

But I have $250.00 to invest, so going to make my initial investment with AEP. $250.00 with a $10.00 initial enrollment fee. After that, I can continue sending in money to buy more - and it costs me NOTHING. No purchase fee, no dividend reinvestment fee, no yearly fee.

It will only cost me when I go to sell - $5.00 + $.12 / share for a batch fee sell or $25.00 + $.12 / share for a market order sell. 

And unless the company changes, I probably won't ever sell. Once I retire I might start getting dividend checks, but other than that, it will go to my wife and eventually to my son. 

It has a 4.70% dividend yield.

Now, like I said - the only "bad" thing about buying the stock direct is it's not "instant". Have to mail in my form, they receive it and have to enter the information. They then have to purchase the stock. I'm guessing my stock will be purchased sometime next week or even possibly the week of the 25th.


----------



## clovis

Michael,

I like AEP. I've been watching it for over a year.

I've been hoping to buy AEP on a hard pull back. I've seen a few decent times to buy AEP, but I bought something else at the time, or had no money in my trading account.

For utilities, I still like DUK and EXC.


----------



## MoonRiver

If a dividend paying stock is going ex dividend on Friday, June 15, what is the last day I can place an order and receive the dividend? What I am getting at is if I buy the stock today, do I legally own the stock today or is it 2 or 3 days from now that I legally own it?


----------



## Tobster

MoonRiver said:


> If a dividend paying stock is going ex dividend on Friday, June 15, what is the last day I can place an order and receive the dividend? What I am getting at is if I buy the stock today, do I legally own the stock today or is it 2 or 3 days from now that I legally own it?


Settlement is 3 business days from purchase. You don't legally own it until then. Whenever a company goes public such as recently occurred with Facebook, you can not have short sales until the fourth day of trading since no one actually has ownership of any stock to loan out for shorting. One reason the smart money avoids IPOs until at least 5 days from the initial offering, it is hard to know the value until the short sellers have a chance and true price discovery happens.


----------



## MoonRiver

Tobster said:


> Settlement is 3 business days from purchase. You don't legally own it until then. Whenever a company goes public such as recently occurred with Facebook, you can not have short sales until the fourth day of trading since no one actually has ownership of any stock to loan out for shorting. One reason the smart money avoids IPOs until at least 5 days from the initial offering, it is hard to know the value until the short sellers have a chance and true price discovery happens.


So if I sell a stock 2 days before it goes ex div, I still receive the dividend?


----------



## Tobster

MoonRiver said:


> So if I sell a stock 2 days before it goes ex div, I still receive the dividend?


You are trying to capture a dividend and ownership swaps around the date are tricky. The company will need a list of owners to pay, at some point they will pick a date and compile the list. Will you appear on the list? Honestly, I don't know. 

I would contact the company and seek the answer to your question. Someone at the brokerage you use will also be able to confirm the information provided by the company.


----------



## clovis

MoonRiver said:


> If a dividend paying stock is going ex dividend on Friday, June 15, what is the last day I can place an order and receive the dividend? What I am getting at is if I buy the stock today, do I legally own the stock today or is it 2 or 3 days from now that I legally own it?


In my experience, with the stocks that I have purchased, if your stock goes ex-dividend on the 15th, you have to own it before the close of business on the 14th.

Sure, you don't legally own it until the trade settles, which may be a few days later, but you'll still get the dividend.


----------



## clovis

MoonRiver said:


> So if I sell a stock 2 days before it goes ex div, I still receive the dividend?


Nope.

You would also have had to hold the stock to the "Date of Record" to receive the dividend.


----------



## MoonRiver

clovis said:


> In my experience, with the stocks that I have purchased, if your stock goes ex-dividend on the 15th, you have to own it before the close of business on the 14th.
> 
> Sure, you don't legally own it until the trade settles, which may be a few days later, but you'll still get the dividend.





clovis said:


> Nope.
> 
> You would also have had to hold the stock to the "Date of Record" to receive the dividend.


From the way prices act, I think you are right. One strange thing I have noticed is, the price of a dividend stock drops in pre-trading the day of ex div. I'm thinking that if you own the stock as of close the day prior to ex div, you get the dividend.


----------



## Michael W. Smith

I found this information on the internet:

Ex-date or Ex-dividend date - On (or after) this date the security trades without it's dividend. If you buy a dividend paying stock one day before the Ex-dividend you WILL get the dividend, but if you buy ON the ex-dividend date, you WON'T get the dividend. Conversely, if you want to sell a stock and still receive a dividend that has been declared, you need to sell on (or after) the ex-dividend date. The ex-date is the second business day before the date of record.

Date of record - This is the date on which the company looks at it's records to see who the stockholders of the company are. An investor must be listed as a holder of record to insure the right of a dividend payout.


----------



## MoonRiver

Michael W. Smith said:


> I found this information on the internet:
> 
> Ex-date or Ex-dividend date - On (or after) this date the security trades without it's dividend. If you buy a dividend paying stock one day before the Ex-dividend you WILL get the dividend, but if you buy ON the ex-dividend date, you WON'T get the dividend. Conversely, if you want to sell a stock and still receive a dividend that has been declared, you need to sell on (or after) the ex-dividend date. The ex-date is the second business day before the date of record.
> 
> Date of record - This is the date on which the company looks at it's records to see who the stockholders of the company are. An investor must be listed as a holder of record to insure the right of a dividend payout.


I get it. They are just trying to confuse me (and they did). 

Wonder why they didn't make date of record the settlement date and move up ex div by 1 day. That way it would be the same as purchase date and settlement date.


----------



## okiemom

anyone have chesapeake gas?


----------



## clovis

MoonRiver said:


> From the way prices act, I think you are right. One strange thing I have noticed is, the price of a dividend stock drops in pre-trading the day of ex div. I'm thinking that if you own the stock as of close the day prior to ex div, you get the dividend.


The reason for this is because the price of the dividend has been taken out of the stock price.

I am told that this is done by the 'market makers', whoever that is.

For instance, if a stock is trading at $50 just before it goes ex-dividend, and has a 50 cent dividend, the next morning, the market makers will readjust the stock price to $49.50. 

This is because 50 cents of the stock worth has been given out...to you, the stock holder.

This is probably the biggest reason that high yielding stocks don't have big growth in their stock price over time.


----------



## willow_girl

Thank you for the information about ex-dividend dates! Awhile back, I bought on the date but didn't receive the dividend and was disappointed. Now I know why! 

Okiemom, be careful with Chesapeake! DH and I were talking about that a couple weeks ago; I can't remember the exact details, but there is something very hincky going on with the company. Ahh, here is some analysis from SeekingAlpha: Pony Up, Cowboy: Chesapeake's Cash (And Management) Problem - Seeking Alpha


----------



## clovis

FWIW, the guy at my Scottrade office told me that "ex" is Latin for "before".

It has been too many years since I've had Latin in high school...so I am going to take his word for it.

Either way, it is a great way to remember the timing on ex-dates.


----------



## Allen W

willow_girl said:


> Thank you for the information about ex-dividend dates! Awhile back, I bought on the date but didn't receive the dividend and was disappointed. Now I know why!
> 
> Okiemom, be careful with Chesapeake! DH and I were talking about that a couple weeks ago; I can't remember the exact details, but there is something very hincky going on with the company. Ahh, here is some analysis from SeekingAlpha: Pony Up, Cowboy: Chesapeake's Cash (And Management) Problem - Seeking Alpha


My feeling is this may get very interesting they are investigating Chesapeak and I believe Sandridge also.


----------



## clovis

I know that no one will care...

But I passed a certain goal I had set for my account in terms of account value. I certainly have a looooong way to go, but when I checked my account on Friday, I had to smile...and call the wife to the computer so she could see it too.

Kind of a lonesome jubilee, but it feels good to have some success with stocks, and their respective dividends. I've been very blessed so far, even though my account, compared to many others, is small.

Those dividends are starting to 'steam roll'. Seems like it has taken forever to get the dividends going, but they are gathering steam.


----------



## willow_girl

Good job, Clovis!


----------



## clovis

So, will the Dow hit 13,000 sometime soon?

We are at 12,840 now.


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Okay folks. HOT STOCK TIP!!!!! Do you want a GUARANTEED profit? I think I found one.

It was announced at the end of April, Sunoco is being bought out later this year by Energy Transfer Partners. ETP is offering Sunoco shareholders 3 different offers.

Offer # 1 - For each share of Sunoco stock, you get $50.00. 

Offer # 2 - For each share of Sunoco stock, you get $25.00 and .5245 shares of ETP.

Offer # 3 - For each share of Sunoco stock, you get 1.0490 shares of ETP.

Currently, Sunoco is selling for $47.59. So, if you get in now, you will make a profit of $2.41 / share. (The buyout is to occur sometime around either the third quarter or last quarter.) Tick - tock, tick - tock.

At this point, I'm just interested in a quick profit, so I've sent in my money and buying Sunoco stock directly from Computershare.

From what I have gathered (unless I'm wrong), Sunoco shareholders can choose which offer they want. 

Is it truly this easy to make money? Have I missed something?


----------



## willow_girl

I dunno, Michael -- it looks like a good deal to me! :shrug:

Let us know how it works out, eh?

Good day in the market today! :bouncy:

I've made $199 on FUN since buying it back on 5/18. Every fiber of my being is screaming, "SELL! SELL!" but I'm trying to hold out for a bit more. :hysterical:


----------



## willow_girl

Ouch; CLNE is up $1.26 today.
Now I'm wishing I had bought it back when I was thinking about it last week ... :sob:


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Will do willow_girl. I think when the news first broke on this merger, Sunoco did go up to $50.00, but as time has gone on, the stock price has fallen some. I'll take any little bit of profit I can, so I've sent in my money and now will just wait for the merger to be complete, so I can be paid my $50.00 / share.

And while I'm waiting, I should hit at least one dividend and get $.20 / share. I think for what I invested, I should have a profit of around $200.00 when I'm all done with this deal - which is alot more than if I just left it sitting in the bank!

And Clovis - glad you reached a goal. When you first start out, you figure you aren't ever going to get anywhere, but as stock prices keep going up (hopefully) and you keep getting paid dividends, the dividends DO grow!


----------



## clovis

Willow,

Your FUN is up a little today. Did you set a sell order?

WTG!!!!!


----------



## clovis

MWS,

I hope that works out for you. I'm going to try to watch the stock, just to see how it fares.

While I can understand the advantage to your ComputerShare deal, if you were trading through Scottrade, your transaction would be complete right now.

What I can't figure out about the Sunoco is why are the big traders on Wall Street allow it to go below $50 a share. I would have thought that the profit gap would have been filled.


----------



## Bret

clovis said:


> I know that no one will care...
> 
> But I passed a certain goal I had set for my account in terms of account value. I certainly have a looooong way to go, but when I checked my account on Friday, I had to smile...and call the wife to the computer so she could see it too.
> 
> Kind of a lonesome jubilee, but it feels good to have some success with stocks, and their respective dividends. I've been very blessed so far, even though my account, compared to many others, is small.
> 
> Those dividends are starting to 'steam roll'. Seems like it has taken forever to get the dividends going, but they are gathering steam.


Good Work.


----------



## clovis

Thanks!


----------



## willow_girl

clovis said:


> Willow,
> 
> Your FUN is up a little today. Did you set a sell order?
> 
> WTG!!!!!


No! Not yet, anyway. I'm up $241 now. I'm really trying to go long this time ... ound:


----------



## Michael W. Smith

clovis said:


> MWS, I hope that works out for you. I'm going to try to watch the stock, just to see how it fares.
> While I can understand the advantage to your ComputerShare deal, if you were trading through Scottrade, your transaction would be complete right now.
> What I can't figure out about the Sunoco is why are the big traders on Wall Street allow it to go below $50 a share. I would have thought that the profit gap would have been filled.


Hmmmmmm. Using Computershare to go direct, I had to pay $10.00 for the initial purchase. From what it looks like, I would have been better off using Scotttrade - paid $7.00 and own it immediately. I not only had the $10.00 initial fee, but the cost of a stamp.
I can't figure out why the cost of Sunoco is below $50.00 either. From what I can tell - the merger is a "done" deal. Both shareholders have approved it - it's just a matter of time until it's complete. I've read about it, and from what I can tell, I am the one who determines which option to take. The $50.00 per share for each share of Sunoco is one of the options. 
When I first became aware of the deal, Sunoco was at $46.00 something. Worth $3.00 and something more per share than what it was selling for.
That's why I keep asking "Am I missing something?"


----------



## willow_girl

Aaaaiieeee ... should have sold when I was up $241!! ig:


----------



## Michael W. Smith

I just got the statement in the mail. June 14, 63.534069 shares were bought at a price of $47.11. There was an initial fee of $10.00 and a transaction fee of $6.91.

If this works out like it's supposed to, I should come out with a profit of $159.79.


----------



## clovis

Uhhh.

A month or so ago, I bought RDS/A, Royal Dutch Shell. It seemed to have a decent dividend, or so I thought.

No one told me that because RDS is a foreign company, 15% was taken out of my dividend payment for foreign withholding.

If I understand this correctly, I just got hosed for 15%, and I get to pay US tax for those dividends on my income taxes too. What is that? Another 15%?

Like I needed something else to figure and then fill out on my 2012 taxes for next year.

I want to dump the stock now, and take a $21 loss (with trading fees). The wife says that we should hold the stock for a little longer. Either way, I've learned a valuable lesson about buying dividend payers that are not US companies.


----------



## willow_girl

I am sorry you got burned, but thanks for sharing your experience, Clovis! I'll be on the lookout for that in the future as I do buy stock in foreign companies from time to time.


----------



## willow_girl

I think I may have to kill myself.

On 1/14/11, I bought 100 shares of MLNX @ $27.49. I sold it 2 weeks later for a profit of $50. 

Last Friday, it closed at $69.33. 

Had I held it, my profit would have been more than $4,000 ... :sob:

My husband finds this extremely funny. 

I may have to kill him, too. ound:


----------



## clovis

Wow, Willow.


----------



## willow_girl

Stinks, doesn't it? ound:

Well, it gives me hope that maybe I'll pick a winner to go long on in the future!


----------



## willow_girl

Opinions on LNDC? 

I found it this morning when I was looking at comparables to WLK. Looks like it's got a bullet!

It's close to its 52-week high, though, which makes me nervous. Not so nervous that I didn't take a position, though ... LOL. 

Edited to add: Holy moly! It went up nearly 7 percent today.  I bought in midway through the run, but still managed to grab $95. Now I have to decide whether to hold or sell tomorrow ...


----------



## clovis

Go get 'em, Willow!

I'm always a proponent of 'turn and burn'...take the fast easy buck, and keep your money moving...but that is just my opinion. 

You certainly have a knack for making money in the market. I see that WLK had a high of $50.70 today. Did you sell?


----------



## willow_girl

Yeah, I sold my WLK ... back in March! But, oh well, I did make a profit on it, although of course it kept going up after I dumped it. Story of my life!

I took the money and ran on LNDC! But I cleared $115 ... not bad for a hunch! I'll keep an eye on it and try to buy it back on a dip.

FUN is up another 86 cents today. :bouncy:


----------



## Michael W. Smith

willow_girl said:


> I think I may have to kill myself.
> On 1/14/11, I bought 100 shares of MLNX @ $27.49. I sold it 2 weeks later for a profit of $50.
> Last Friday, it closed at $69.33.
> Had I held it, my profit would have been more than $4,000 ... :sob:
> My husband finds this extremely funny.
> I may have to kill him, too. ound:


Just to set things straight - kill your husband FIRST and THEN yourself.  Otherwise, you'll find yourself on "the other side" with no way to bring husband over. :smack And then he will really be laughing that he gets all of your money too. :hysterical:
Well, other than he will think "Oh, my poor poor wife.":sob:
"Now, where is her life insurance policy?!?" :shrug:


----------



## willow_girl

ound: ound: ound:

Good advice, Michael!


----------



## willow_girl

FUN was taking a hit today so I dumped it! Cleared $310 on this round. This is the third time I've bought and sold it.

Up $1,976 for the year!


----------



## clovis

Nice job, Willow!!!!! Keep up the great work!!!!!


----------



## willow_girl

You too, Clovis! This is fun, isn't it?


----------



## willow_girl

> A month or so ago, I bought RDS/A, Royal Dutch Shell. It seemed to have a decent dividend, or so I thought.
> 
> No one told me that because RDS is a foreign company, 15% was taken out of my dividend payment for foreign withholding.
> 
> If I understand this correctly, I just got hosed for 15%, and I get to pay US tax for those dividends on my income taxes too. What is that? Another 15%?
> 
> Like I needed something else to figure and then fill out on my 2012 taxes for next year.
> 
> I want to dump the stock now, and take a $21 loss (with trading fees). The wife says that we should hold the stock for a little longer. Either way, I've learned a valuable lesson about buying dividend payers that are not US companies.


DH and I were talking about this ... he said if you itemize your taxes, you should be able to deduct the amount that you paid in foreign taxes.


----------



## clovis

willow_girl said:


> DH and I were talking about this ... he said if you itemize your taxes, you should be able to deduct the amount that you paid in foreign taxes.


Thanks, Willow.

I haven't been itemizing...but it is good to know. 

I am still thinking about dumping my RDS/A, and buying more BPT.


----------



## clovis

Anyone have advice on MLP's, or Master Limited Partnerships?

What are the pitfalls and risks of MLP's?


----------



## Michael W. Smith

I'M RICH! I'M RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have owned Duke Energy for several years and happened to look at the stock price today. What is this? The price closed yesterday at $23.28. Today the stock is up $45.64 - selling for $68.89 / share!!!!! Woo Hoo - I'm rich!!!!

Then I start looking - WHY? Progress merged with them - that wouldn't cause a price jump. Then I finally see down in the news - they did a reverse stock split - 1 for 3. So every 3 shares I owned is now only 1 share today.

So I can't retire yet - darn it!!


----------



## Michael W. Smith

clovis said:


> What are the pitfalls and risks of MLP's?


Clovis, Just google "risks of MLPs". That should help you know the risks. As for advice - I don't know anything about them, so don't have any advice - other than read up on them BEFORE you invest anything so you know what you are getting into.


----------



## clovis

Michael W. Smith said:


> I'M RICH! I'M RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I have owned Duke Energy for several years and happened to look at the stock price today. What is this? The price closed yesterday at $23.28. Today the stock is up $45.64 - selling for $68.89 / share!!!!! Woo Hoo - I'm rich!!!!
> 
> Then I start looking - WHY? Progress merged with them - that wouldn't cause a price jump. Then I finally see down in the news - they did a reverse stock split - 1 for 3. So every 3 shares I owned is now only 1 share today.
> 
> So I can't retire yet - darn it!!


Pretty funny, MWS.

I've had DUK on my watch list for quite sometime now, but never took the chance to buy in. I saw DUK was up $45, and quickly realized that the reverse split is what caused the stock to jump so much. I got a kick out of seeing how much the stock soared...


----------



## clovis

Michael W. Smith said:


> Clovis, Just google "risks of MLPs". That should help you know the risks. As for advice - I don't know anything about them, so don't have any advice - other than read up on them BEFORE you invest anything so you know what you are getting into.


Good idea...I'll do that. Just thought I would ask here first.


----------



## clovis

I've done some research on MLP's.

I understand that MLP's issue a tax form called a K-1, (like a W-2) and if I understand correctly, you have to pay both Fed and state taxes on those earnings. If the MLP that you own has operations in 5 states, you have to pay state tax reported on the K-1 in those 5 states.

I need to do some more research. The yield is great on MLP's, but I need to learn a little more at this time.


----------



## clovis

I also stumbled across GAT this week.

Super nice yield about 7-8%.

I understand this stock is called an exchange traded debt, whereas the corporate debt is issued as a stock, and not a bond. I'm not totally sure that I can even buy this ETD...it might be a closed fund, even though it is traded on the NYSE.

I have so much to learn, but I am enjoying it. 

Anyone know anything about GAT, or ETD's?


----------



## willow_girl

clovis said:


> I've done some research on MLP's.
> 
> I understand that MLP's issue a tax form called a K-1, (like a W-2) and if I understand correctly, you have to pay both Fed and state taxes on those earnings. If the MLP that you own has operations in 5 states, you have to pay state tax reported on the K-1 in those 5 states.
> 
> I need to do some more research. The yield is great on MLP's, but I need to learn a little more at this time.


I asked DH about this because I remembered him moaning about K-1s when he was a tax preparer. LOL 

He said they're kind of a bear to fill out at tax time... if you do your own taxes, he recommended using tax preparation software to help you. 

Also, he recommended not filing early, as K-1 paperwork usually arrives later than other tax statements -- sometimes as late as March or even early April. So if you file early, before you receive the paperwork, you'll have to amend your return later. "Wait 'til it comes in the mail," was his advice.


----------



## clovis

Willow,

Thank you!!!! That is helpful advice!!!!! I think I am going to steer clear of MLP's as a long term buy and hold for now, at least until I can understand them a little better, and the tax consequences that come with them.

Yes, I do my own taxes, and the last thing I need is something else to file, even thought the IRS will kindly send you a letter telling you of any mistakes you made on your 1040.


----------



## willow_girl

You're welcome!

He's gonna kill me for buying and selling FUN ... 3x ... it's a limited partnership ... lots of paperwork at tax time! :teehee:


----------



## Halfway

Check out the big wedge forming on GD. Usually an easy trade once it breaks out. The dividend is nice as well....as long as we get the tax break that is. :indif:


----------



## clovis

Nice to see you posting, Halfway.

I'll check out GD...thanks for the tip.


----------



## Halfway

Thanks Clovis.

And a BIG thank you for turning me on to the Invesco Bond ETFs (OIB etc.). I believe that was you.

Nice getting 5-7% over the past several months while seeing the price continue to rise as well. It will be a shame if they let the dividend tax break expire. There are many more than the "rich" who count on dividends as income and the money used for the investments has already been taxed a couple times. 

Getting penalized for investing in America's economy is unwise.

Thanks again!


----------



## willow_girl

Here is a nice little stock for your consideration: POL.

Closed Friday at $14.65. Pays a modest (1.37%) dividend. Analysts seem to like it.

I'm taking a close look at chemical companies that use the byproducts of natural gas in their manufacturing. Seems like their input costs ought to be pretty cheap right now.

Full disclosure: I am long (well, as long as I ever get ound: ) on POL.


----------



## clovis

Halfway said:


> Thanks Clovis.
> 
> And a BIG thank you for turning me on to the Invesco Bond ETFs (OIB etc.). I believe that was you.
> 
> Nice getting 5-7% over the past several months while seeing the price continue to rise as well. It will be a shame if they let the dividend tax break expire. There are many more than the "rich" who count on dividends as income and the money used for the investments has already been taxed a couple times.
> 
> Getting penalized for investing in America's economy is unwise.
> 
> Thanks again!


Sorry to say...I don't think I suggested the ETF's, but as long as you are making money, I'll take the credit. 

On the dividend tax: The way I understand it is that only the folks making over $240,000 a year will lose that tax break. Am I wrong about this?

I am _just_ shy of that type of income...no wait...that was a dream...LOL.

I wouldn't know what I would do with $240,000 a year...no, wait again. I think I could figure out how to spend it. A house in Montana, and an all original '55 Chevy would be a great start.


----------



## willow_girl

You are smarter than me, Clove! I would spend it all taking care of more worn-out dairy cows. ound:


----------



## willow_girl

OK I lied! I didn't go long on POL; I dumped it when it made $126. ($106 net.) 

It came back down after sold it, though, and ended up just 3 cents over its starting point. So I'm not sorry I took the money and ran ...

Nice little stock though. I'll be keeping an eye on it, prolly buy it back on a dip ...


----------



## clovis

Nice work, WG!!!!


----------



## willow_girl

Thanks Clove!


----------



## Halfway

clovis said:


> Sorry to say...I don't think I suggested the ETF's, but as long as you are making money, I'll take the credit.
> 
> On the dividend tax: The way I understand it is that only the folks making over $240,000 a year will lose that tax break. Am I wrong about this?
> 
> I am _just_ shy of that type of income...no wait...that was a dream...LOL.
> 
> I wouldn't know what I would do with $240,000 a year...no, wait again. I think I could figure out how to spend it. A house in Montana, and an all original '55 Chevy would be a great start.


As of now, it is around 240k, but we will see what the finished product looks like. I can see them going after capital gains (home sales) and dividends for under 250k in the very near future. I don't have to worry about the 240k income any time soon (LOL), but I do have a house in Montana.


----------



## Marshloft

Anyone have any luck today???
I watched a stock on my list go up a dollar "wwww" today but couldn't do anything as I was long on a stock "tngo" thats been going sideways for bout a week. I was up 300 and stayed long because of a confirmed uptrend and then it went down to where I was down 100. So today I sold for just enough profit to pay the piper.
I am used to being able to sell a stock and get right back in on a stock that I like better. But now I have to wait three days for everything to clear. Didn't used to be that way,, kinda sucks actually.
At least I am back to cash again...
GH


----------



## xCSx

Went mostly to cash over the last few weeks, up over 9% on the year.... waiting


----------



## clovis

I've got a little cash on the sidelines too.


----------



## Marshloft

Well crap,, I mentioned that got tired of watching "TNGO" go sideways yesterday and sold. Today it goes up 1.50. I had 200 shares.. Dang. My timing sucks,, obviously.
GH


----------



## willow_girl

Ohhh man! :doh:

I feel for ya, buddy.


----------



## Halfway

'Bout time for PG to get into the game again and we are below book. Not a bad place to start a long term position or add to an existing. The div is decent as well.

Loving the oil patch here again as well.


----------



## Waiting Falcon

Has anyone bought royalties of any type whether they be precious metal, movies, etc? 
If so were they worth while? I am getting mixed reviews.


----------



## Halfway

Great morning for PG and CVX.

Also added some CAG and EPD to catch their dividends in the next few days as well. These are all long term investments.

I post because they are solid and trading at somewhat a discount. Especially on days when we see the broad markets sell.


----------



## clovis

Another drop for the Dow today.

Lots of stocks are discount priced. We should see a nice bounce...sometime.

I like LLY, which got hammered today. I'd like to pick up a few more shares since it was down $1.85, but I'm not sure what to do. I'll be keeping a keen on Marketwatch.com to see what the futures and Asian markets do overnight.

Anyone else getting into the market, or have trades they would like to make?


----------



## willow_girl

I bought back my POL and FUN today. FUN finished the day $48 up for me, while POL was -$9, but since the trading fee is $9.99 I guess you could say it was a wash! 

Hoping for an uptick tomorrow!


----------



## Marshloft

I hate really on luck to get me out of a bad stock,, but it happened yesterday..
Friday I bought 300 "SYNC" on a dump,, @ 11.87,, it went immediatly down,, imagine that,, after some research, I found out I just bought a stock that could very easily just keep going down,,got too busy during the day to realize it had gone down past my personal 8% loss limit and had gone back up... Good thing I wasn't watching,, I'm sure I would have sold.
I turned on my computer first thing Monday and it opens at 13.00. I'm outa there,, I don't care if I lose more profits..
When I first started watching Synacore,, I thought it had potential,, now I'm not so sure.
GH


----------



## clovis

Marshloft said:


> I hate really on luck to get me out of a bad stock,, but it happened yesterday..
> Friday I bought 300 "SYNC" on a dump,, @ 11.87,, it went immediatly down,, imagine that,, after some research, I found out I just bought a stock that could very easily just keep going down,,got too busy during the day to realize it had gone down past my personal 8% loss limit and had gone back up... Good thing I wasn't watching,, I'm sure I would have sold.
> I turned on my computer first thing Monday and it opens at 13.00. I'm outa there,, I don't care if I lose more profits..
> When I first started watching Synacore,, I thought it had potential,, now I'm not so sure.
> GH


Marsh,

I'd rather be lucky than good.

Congrats on the profits!!!! WTG!!!!


----------



## clovis

Well, dag gone it!!!

LLY gapped up today, and the market just opened. It is up $1 a share, and I missed it!!!!


----------



## frogmammy

Myself, I'm now in love with IRBT. This is the second time I bought/sold, made $3 a share this time! :bouncy: Now if NVDA would just move back UP....

Mon


----------



## willow_girl

Wow! That is a neat stock, Frogmammy! I'll be keeping an eye on it for sure ...

Lots of volatility there ...

Clovis, don't get discouraged; just wait for the next buying day!

My FUN is up $90 today, and POL is $17 to the good. Both report shortly ... not sure whether I'll hang on into the next cycle or not.


----------



## willow_girl

WOW! Happy days are here again, eh? ound:

My POL shot up 38 cents at the opener ... I dumped it and picked up $109.

FUN is up $146, but I'm gonna hang on to it a little while longer, I think. 

$2191 for the year and counting! 

Happy trading, everybody!


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Who here bought FB at it's original offering waiting for the day you could sell and take your wheelbarrow loads of money to the bank?

Well, you will have to wait somemore. Facebook isn't doing so well today - down almost $4.00 per share to $22.94.

Initial public offering started at $38.00 / share.

OUCH!


----------



## clovis

MWS-

Did you buy SUN and are you still holding it? I noticed that you'll pick up a .20 dividend to enhance your profits.


----------



## clovis

WTG, Willow!!!!


----------



## frogmammy

BUMMER! Was looking at MED last night, decided I wanted 100 shares or nothing (didn't have enough clear for that) and darned if it didn't go up $4 a share this morning! Darn! Now I'm going to have to sit back and wait for diet season to start!

Mon


----------



## Halfway

May be a decent entry in FB today for those on a pure spec play.....it will be hard for people to sahake the platform so it will not merely decay. The revenue will progress as google has learned.

Timing is everything. 100 shares at ballpark $25?


----------



## willow_girl

I should have dumped FUN when it was up $146 ... *sigh*

Clovis, did you ever get your LLY? I was looking at DH's portfolio and noticed it was up another .88 cents today.

Frogmammy, you do know how to pick 'em! :bow:


----------



## clovis

I'm still holding LLY, and the plans are to hold it until I die. 

The dividend is just too good, and I read one analyst/opinion that said LLY would be at $51 within a year.

I was hoping to either add to my existing position, or work it for a fast flip during the last pullback.


----------



## clovis

Halfway said:


> May be a decent entry in FB today for those on a pure spec play.....it will be hard for people to sahake the platform so it will not merely decay. The revenue will progress as google has learned.
> 
> Timing is everything. 100 shares at ballpark $25?


I thought the same thing. While I think FB is still overvalued at $22, I think you'll see some stability, and could flip the stock at $25 +/-.


----------



## Michael W. Smith

clovis said:


> MWS-Did you buy SUN and are you still holding it? I noticed that you'll pick up a .20 dividend to enhance your profits.


Yes, I have 63 shares, so at least I'll get a little bit before the Merger (it will be reinvested). Now, when the merger occurs, I'm not sure if I should take my $50.00 per share and run, take $25.00 in cash per share and get .5245 shares of ETP, or just merge each Sunoco share into 1.0490 shares of ETP.


----------



## frogmammy

willow_girl said:


> Frogmammy, you do know how to pick 'em! :bow:


Oh, not hardly! It appears I've adopted some NVDA and NTRI!

Mon


----------



## Marshloft

Why is it when hit the sell button,,, your stock immediatle goes up a nickel,,, and when you hit the buy button,, it goes down a nickel,,,, flustrating..
I got into a short term and long term stocks yesterday and today,, well,, we all know long term is relative in these days... Maybe 3 days???
Yesterday "sync" went down 3.00,, I got in at 9.61,,, was hoping for it to recover some,,, but had to sell this afternoon at 9.97,, didn't want to hold over the week-end
Yesterday,, "WWWW" took a nose dive,,didn't see it till this morning, it also dropped 3.oo,, actually,, 3.50,, I wanted it to drop to 15.00 before I bought,, but didn't think it was gonna happen,so I jumped in before it went to 16.00 I got it at 15.93,,, as soon as I got it,, an hout later,,, yep,, you guessed it,,, it dropped to 15.00 I'm now down .40,, but I'll hang onto it for awhile,, give or take a day..
GH


----------



## willow_girl

Well, the stock I sold on Wednesday went up .65 today -- I'd had 300 shares -- while the stock I held went up only .02 today (after falling by more than $1 yesterday). Aiiiiieeeeee ....!


----------



## Marshloft

willow_girl said:


> Well, the stock I sold on Wednesday went up .65 today -- I'd had 300 shares -- while the stock I held went up only .02 today (after falling by more than $1 yesterday). Aiiiiieeeeee ....!


 Is it ok to say,,, sometimes it sucks to be us??? LOL
In all,,, I came out ahead today by 5 bucks... and I'm holding on to a stock that has potential.. "I hope"
GH


----------



## Halfway

clovis said:


> I thought the same thing. While I think FB is still overvalued at $22, I think you'll see some stability, and could flip the stock at $25 +/-.



My dislike for "timeline" has effected the amount of time I spend on the site. I wonder how it effects others as well as the expansive mobile market?


----------



## willow_girl

frogmammy said:


> Oh, not hardly! It appears I've adopted some NVDA and NTRI!
> 
> Mon


Ehh, neither of those looks terrible -- in fact, NTRI was up almost 3% today!


----------



## willow_girl

Stocks I'm glad I sold ... BRCM is down almost $6 a share from where I cashed out in late March! :teehee:


----------



## Marshloft

Crossing my fingers,,, Hanging onto 150 shares of "WWWW". sliding sideways,, I'm down .40... Tomorrow they report their quarterly profits. Where's the chewing fingernails icon when you need on.
GH


----------



## willow_girl

Yeah, that's a nail-biter all right! I see they were up over $18 as recently as last Thursday ...

Seeking Alpha has some analysis ... WWWW: The Case Of The Non-Cash Cash Flow - Seeking Alpha

The comments are interesting, too.


----------



## willow_girl

Up a little bit, Marshy! 

I've been keeping an eye on IRBT. Almost bought some this morning ... glad I waited. :teehee:


----------



## frogmammy

Yeah, it's really taking a dive right now! If it hits 20 I'll get back in.

Mon


----------



## clovis

I don't know what to think of this market.

Just two months or so ago, everyone was saying "Sell in May, and go away." It seemed like every TV personality and every financial market writer was reporting something that said the market would crater again this May.

Now, after a significant rally, I keep hearing the same news: Europe is a devastating mess and can't be fixed, the economy is horrible, and even Cramer says the "market is really thin, and this rally is only people covering their shorts".

It is getting hard to find a bargain on high yield dividend stocks. I still have a little cash on the side lines. 

Are we headed to Dow 14,000?

I'm still waiting for significant corrections and Dow 11,000...which is where I thought we would be right now.

Thoughts, anyone?


----------



## willow_girl

Heck if I know, Clovis!

I had intended to get out in May, too, but here I am ... :shrug:

I think there is a lot of money on the sidelines right now ... not just among investors, but in business, too. When Romney is elected (and he will be) we will see the floodgates open. Right now, businesses are very wary of the regulatory climate ... they're waiting to see what will happen in Nov. I expect Romney to be much more business-friendly, and he's already pledged to roll back Dodd-Frank, which will allow much more risky wheeling and dealing in the financial sector. All this lends itself to a run-up in the market, IMO ... I'm trying now to position myself for the future without worrying as much about short-term gains. 

It is hard to change strategies, though!


----------



## Marshloft

clovis said:


> I don't know what to think of this market.
> 
> Just two months or so ago, everyone was saying "Sell in May, and go away." It seemed like every TV personality and every financial market writer was reporting something that said the market would crater again this May.
> 
> Now, after a significant rally, I keep hearing the same news: Europe is a devastating mess and can't be fixed, the economy is horrible, and even Cramer says the "market is really thin, and this rally is only people covering their shorts".
> 
> It is getting hard to find a bargain on high yield dividend stocks. I still have a little cash on the side lines.
> 
> Are we headed to Dow 14,000?
> 
> I'm still waiting for significant corrections and Dow 11,000...which is where I thought we would be right now.
> 
> Thoughts, anyone?


 Listening to the talking heads I learned is listening to fools gold.
Shutting your ears is a learned trait.
I'm a "chartist" I search for the right charts I'm looking for,, then research the stock.
Doesn't always work,, but,, we all have out differing methods.
GH


----------



## Marshloft

willow_girl said:


> Yeah, that's a nail-biter all right! I see they were up over $18 as recently as last Thursday ...
> 
> Seeking Alpha has some analysis ... WWWW: The Case Of The Non-Cash Cash Flow - Seeking Alpha
> 
> The comments are interesting, too.


 Yeah,, I've bought and sold them once already,,, A month ago,, when I was looking at their charts,, I wrote down that they were a buy at 15.
Today they reported .02 ahead of estimates. I noticed in after hours trading, they went up to 16.50,, closed at 15.50,,, hard telling where they'll be in the morning.
I read the report you provided,,, TMI. I'm no accountant,, don't claim to be.
It seems,, for every analyst that see's one side,, another see's something totaly different. One thing I've found,, *Charts* never lie or have an opinion.
GH
ETA,,, An employee came up to me yestarday and stated he had 1400. wanted to know where to invest it and wanted to see my watch list's.. I told him,,, "CRUS" Told him he could get 50 shares at 28,,, he found something else,,, this morning, "CRUS" was up 6.00.. Go figure...


----------



## willow_girl

Wow! 

Umm, got any hot stock tips for us today, Marshy? :teehee:


----------



## Marshloft

willow_girl said:


> Wow!
> 
> Umm, got any hot stock tips for us today, Marshy? :teehee:


 I can't find squat. Ben searching all dang day and into the evening..
Guess I'll hang onto WWWW for awhile and keep the rest in cash.
And you??
GH


----------



## Marshloft

Wanted to add,, I did find something new to look into as I was searching,, Gonna be something I havn't tried on a stock I'm unfamiliar with. I'll let you know if it works more than once. Or at all and I'm left penniless. But in this market,, which we should all know by now,, is not your daddy's market.
Think outta the box.
What hinders me if I'm wrong on a stock,, {I can live with that} its having to wait 3 days to settle before I can use that money again. Wasn't that way years ago.
GH


----------



## Marshloft

Well,,, stay within the box I say after today,, I made good on wwww. But I messed up big time and I need someone who knows about bankruptcy laws and stocks to give me some advice.
I bought a stock this morning,, this after noon,,, an executive of the company mentioned filing for reorganizationak
l bankruptcy.
What happens to a stockholder in that event,,, assuming,,, its too late to sell and take my losses.
GH


----------



## willow_girl

Oh geez! That does not sound good at all ...

I have not had any experience along those lines, but would probably try to dump it ASAP. 

I see IRBT had a nice run today; did anyone get in on the action? (I'm still on the sidelines.)


----------



## clovis

Marshloft said:


> Well,,, stay within the box I say after today,, I made good on wwww. But I messed up big time and I need someone who knows about bankruptcy laws and stocks to give me some advice.
> I bought a stock this morning,, this after noon,,, an executive of the company mentioned filing for reorganizationak
> l bankruptcy.
> What happens to a stockholder in that event,,, assuming,,, its too late to sell and take my losses.
> GH


In the case of the GM that I bought, after the bankruptcy was announced, the stock was reassigned a new ticker symbol. Those shares traded on the pink sheets for a while.

Those shares went up and down everyday. I wonder if someone was pumping and dumping those shares, because I kept reading articles warning would-be investors that the stock was worthless.

I finally dumped my shares, and the next day, they skyrocketed up another .84 cents a share, so I missed out in a big way.

Of course, a new GM stock was created, with no ties to the previous GM stock, and an IPO was issued.


----------



## clovis

Oh, and BTW, bankruptcies for public corporations make me a little mad.

Instead of having one BK judge determine that all the old shares are worthless and void them out completely, I think the old shareholders should be awarded the book value of the business. 

For instance, my GM stock was voided out completely, and I basically lost everything. Why did the new GM get to keep all the tooling, buildings, manufacturing, trademarks, and existing business...while at the same time, got to issue an IPO for a new company???

GM was still selling cars during that time...why didn't I get a little piece of that? Think about how much the trademarks of "Chevy SS" and "Corvette" are worth. I think the new GM should have been forced to buy those assets from the old GM, and that money should have been paid to the old stockholders. 

Please remember that I am only using GM as an example. Every year, BK's of corporate companies are being decided by *one* judge and teams of lawyers. Anyone remember the K-Mart BK?

As shareholders, we own that business. They take our money, but we have no rights whatsoever.

I strongly believe there needs to be some serious reform in shareholder rights in regards to BK.


----------



## Marshloft

Things didn't turn out as bad as they could have,,, I was one sweatin puppy tho.
On the good side,, I sold "WWWW" today for a 300.00 profit.
Yesterday on the other hnd,,, I pulled a stupid, Look up "KCG" in the news and you'll see what I mean.
Anywho,, It took a major dump wed. from 10 or so,, down to the hi 6's Thursday I saw that it opened at 3.21 , well,, it started to go up,, went past 4.00,, I said self,, if it goes back down below 4.00.. I'm jumping in. It did,, I jumped in at 3.95. For 500 shrs. Well,, you guessed it,, I went back to work and came back in the office,, it was down to 2.97, I was so far past my 8% stop rule,, I just walked away in discust at myself. It went all the way down to 2.27 . I was down 700. at the end of the day. Did I say I didn't get much sleep?
The next morning,,, it opened a little higher,,, felt some relif,,, I said self? If it just gets anywheres close to 3.64,, I', sellin,, I'm still up for the day with "W",, I can take an 8% loss. Finally,, I got to sell at 4.05 this afternoon about 5 min. left to closing.
Once you read up on the news about Knight Capital,, you'll undersatnd my question yesterday and why I was sweating it.
So,,, all in all,, I'm good to gor for next week with the profits from "W".
Now,, with all that being said,,, If KCG gets its financing in order come Monday,, I think it will do fine. But,,,, after the last 2 days??? I'll let you reap the reward in the event it goes back up. 
As for me,,, I'm going back to what I know.
Y'all have a great week-end.. I am, Now.
GH


----------



## frogmammy

So, I'm wondering....I've got some shares in different things that have started going up nicely and I'm going to have to keep an eye on them so I can sell at the right time...

BUT....I'm going fishing the weekend after next and will be in the middle of Lake Michigan Salmon fishing when the market opens that Monday....

So, I'm wondering....do you think if I take my laptop I'll be able to follow the market ok?

Mon (decisions, decisions!) Oh, and no, didn't go for IRBT, not down enough yet


----------



## Marshloft

frogmammy said:


> So, I'm wondering....I've got some shares in different things that have started going up nicely and I'm going to have to keep an eye on them so I can sell at the right time...
> 
> BUT....I'm going fishing the weekend after next and will be in the middle of Lake Michigan Salmon fishing when the market opens that Monday....
> 
> So, I'm wondering....do you think if I take my laptop I'll be able to follow the market ok?
> 
> Mon (decisions, decisions!) Oh, and no, didn't go for IRBT, not down enough yet


IRBT, Irobot Corp - Stock Investment Research, IBD Stock Charts - Investors.com

The chart for IRBT is a little difficult to decipher. About the time it comes to a top,, which is impossible to determin,, it falls as much as 5.00 to 9.00 respectivley. Wow You are below your 50 day mov. ave. and just barely above your 200 day mov. av. 20.00 is your new floor,, where as 25.00 is your new ceiling. 
You also have a RS,, *"Relative Strength" *of 19,, with 99 being best
I just read where defense cuts could impact IRBT,,, just be careful.
Before I leave,, compare this chart with yours.. RS "Relative Strength 95.
http://research.investors.com/StockResearch/IBDCharts.aspx?cht=pvc&type=daily&symbol=WWWW&src=
Do you remember wheer I mentioned, wwww was a buy at 15? 19 to 20 seems to also be its ceiling during its base period. I don't have any faith in the BIG Market,, so I sold just under 18.00 If I leave something on the table,, oh well
GH


----------



## Halfway

WFC pre-ex-d date ( 8 aug). They will bump their dividends shortly as well for a near 3.5% rate. Targeting 40 plus over the next 10-12 months. Good long position in the strongest of banks.


----------



## frogmammy

KELYA was nice today!

Mon


----------



## Marshloft

Whilst my money was being settled, I had to set on the sidelines, I had "DF" Dean Foods on my watch list,,, guess we all missed that one,, up 5.00 today,,, dang. Based on the charts,, it was a definate buy at 12.00. Now its at a New High,, can't chase it now.
Another stock I've been watching,, "CREE" havn't decided to jump in yet, still pondering,, it was up 2.00 today,, maynot be too late for "CREE".
I'm good to go tomorrow,, all settled up with cash.
GH


----------



## Marshloft

clovis said:


> Oh, and BTW, bankruptcies for public corporations make me a little mad.
> 
> Instead of having one BK judge determine that all the old shares are worthless and void them out completely, I think the old shareholders should be awarded the book value of the business.
> 
> For instance, my GM stock was voided out completely, and I basically lost everything. Why did the new GM get to keep all the tooling, buildings, manufacturing, trademarks, and existing business...while at the same time, got to issue an IPO for a new company???
> 
> GM was still selling cars during that time...why didn't I get a little piece of that? Think about how much the trademarks of "Chevy SS" and "Corvette" are worth. I think the new GM should have been forced to buy those assets from the old GM, and that money should have been paid to the old stockholders.
> 
> Please remember that I am only using GM as an example. Every year, BK's of corporate companies are being decided by *one* judge and teams of lawyers. Anyone remember the K-Mart BK?
> 
> As shareholders, we own that business. They take our money, but we have no rights whatsoever.
> 
> I strongly believe there needs to be some serious reform in shareholder rights in regards to BK.


 Clovis,,, you got robbed,,, and that scares me.
I got downright lucky..
GH


----------



## willow_girl

Well, I dumped FUN today for a profit of $128. It had been wobbling a bit lately, which made me nervous. 

It reported before market hours, and looked good ... it beat analyst estimates by 37 cents!  

But sometimes stocks will tank even when the report is positive ... :teehee:

I didn't think it would go over $33, so I set my sell at $32.98 ... which appears to have been a pretty good guess, as it peaked at $33, then dropped back to $32.13, ending the day down by 17 cents.

Not sure whether I should push my luck by buying it back on the next dip ... 

Tally for the year: $2319!


----------



## Marshloft

Ya did good girl,, and you're asking me for tips?? ha ha.


----------



## clovis

Marshloft said:


> Clovis,,, you got robbed,,, and that scares me.
> I got downright lucky..
> GH


All shareholders in publicly held companies get robbed when the company files BK, at least IMO.


----------



## willow_girl

Not so fast, Marshy! 

My RNDY crashed and BURNED on Friday after missing expectations by 1 cent and announcing lowered expectations for the rest of the year. The stock dropped $2.52, more than 25 percent! 

I had been about $70 upside-down before the report, but decided to hang on ... I didn't expect the slide to be so bad. I lost $488. 

But the upside is the company still is expected to pay a 23-cent dividend (which is crazy as the stock now is valued at $7.70!  ) So I think I'll keep it for the dividend, as long as it holds up ... a $1,542 investment that pays $184 a year isn't such a bad deal AFAIC. :shrug:


----------



## willow_girl

Oh, this is for you, Clovis! 

Best Dividend Stocks: 2012 Q2 Update - Seeking Alpha


----------



## clovis

willow_girl said:


> Oh, this is for you, Clovis!
> 
> Best Dividend Stocks: 2012 Q2 Update - Seeking Alpha


Thank you!!!! 

I really like Seeking Alpha for different perspectives.


----------



## clovis

willow_girl said:


> Not so fast, Marshy!
> 
> My RNDY crashed and BURNED on Friday after missing expectations by 1 cent and announcing lowered expectations for the rest of the year. The stock dropped $2.52, more than 25 percent!
> 
> I had been about $70 upside-down before the report, but decided to hang on ... I didn't expect the slide to be so bad. I lost $488.
> 
> But the upside is the company still is expected to pay a 23-cent dividend (which is crazy as the stock now is valued at $7.70!  ) So I think I'll keep it for the dividend, as long as it holds up ... a $1,542 investment that pays $184 a year isn't such a bad deal AFAIC. :shrug:


I'm sorry to hear about the pounding you took on RNDY.

I have been pondering a small position on this stock, not only for the dividend, but for a short term play as well.

Are you thinking about taking an additional position in RNDY? 

It will be interesting to see if this stock gaps up in pre-market trading tomorrow morning.


----------



## willow_girl

Right now, eTrade has it up 6 cents in after-hours. Big whoopee! 

Ah well, gotta take the bad with the good ...

Even if you subtract the two stocks I'm down on but haven't sold, I'm still up more than 13% net (after trading fees) for the year, so I'm not gonna gripe! 

And ... the opera ain't over until you hit the 'sell' button! I was down on three stocks at this time last year, and all made good eventually. One -- WLK -- is having a banner year, although of course I sold it already. :doh:

I probably won't dig myself any deeper with RNDY, although I have another buy in mind for tomorrow morning. We'll see how the winds are blowing in the ayem.


----------



## clovis

I am seriously considering a small position in RNDY on this significant pull back. The stock could easily bounce up $1 this week. I have concerns about the sustainability of the dividend, and whether it will be cut.

I had originally wanted to buy WHZ, a royalty trust, for it's stellar dividend.

If I'm at the computer in the morning, I might make a move...I am very torn right now, and I might not buy anything at all.


----------



## Marshloft

Other than seeing a stock with high dividends as a potential solid stock,,, is that your ownly priority?
I've never cared before (due to ignorance on my part) about dividends. But now I do look at them for potential as a solid stock investment,, but not as a dividend residual.
To me,, I have always thought,, if they have enough money to shell out dividends,, they should be putting that cash into R & D. Which would in turn,, come up with new products,, hence,, a higher stock price.
You all need to enlighten me.
GH
ETA: Is it the board of directors that decide if excess money's be given in dividends vs spent in R & D.?


----------



## clovis

Yes, dividend stocks, at least for me, is my primary priority. 

The dividend stocks that I buy, for the most part, have to be very solid companies with a super strong dividend history. 

I recently figured that if you invested $100 in a stock that yields 5%, and reinvested that 5% every year, you would have $262 in 20 years. It is the compounding interest that works in your favor. While my math might be off a little, you see my point.

While entire books have been written about investing with dividend payers, they are boring. Sometimes I am green with envy reading about how the other posters on this thread made a $300 profit in 3 days, but high yielders with solid histories tend to be safe and conservative. 

I do see your point about companies and their R&D, but remember, the dividends are paid _after_ they've spent millions and billions on R&D. Just think how much these corporations spend or blow...corporate jets for the CEO's, lavish travel, tremendously huge expenditures on buildings and capital expenditures...and they still have the free cash to pay healthy dividends.

It shows how much profit there is in some businesses, doesn't it?

At the same time, I'd argue that more companies need to be paying dividends. Take Sprint for example. I read that they have $8.1 Billion in cash reserves, but they aren't paying a dividend. Why not?


----------



## Marshloft

Remember "WWWW"?? Its dropping today, I don't see it going back to 15. again,, may be a buy at 16.50ish this time.
Worth keeping an eye on for those who trade on a 3 day upswing.
Down to 17.12 as we speak. oops,, 17.10 now.
GH


----------



## willow_girl

I bought DLTR yesterday ... caught the falling knife! LOL

I'm about $15 to the good today. It reports soon, so I'll be keeping a close eye on it.

I have liked this stock for awhile, but it got too pricey for my taste. The 2-for-1 split in June made it more palatable.


----------



## Marshloft

willow_girl said:


> I bought DLTR yesterday ... caught the falling knife! LOL
> 
> I'm about $15 to the good today. It reports soon, so I'll be keeping a close eye on it.
> 
> I have liked this stock for awhile, but it got too pricey for my taste. The 2-for-1 split in June made it more palatable.


 DLTR is still too pricey for me,, looks as tho you did good tho.
I was watching 
SYNC" this afternoon going down,, thought it was a buy at 8.12,, almost pulled the trigger. But waited it out,, got in at 7.71
Oh yeah,,, can one go wrong on "KCG" at 3.00? I did it. "again."
GH


----------



## clovis

I bought WHZ today. Stellar dividend yield. It is an oil and gas royalty trust. Let's hope it pays okay in the future.


----------



## willow_girl

DH took a quick trip on Sprint ... bought it yesterday and sold it today. IIRC, he made $176 off 1,000 shares. He was mad, though, as it kept going up after he sold it! He said he "did a Willow today." ound:

My DLTR is getting beat up a bit ... it reports tomorrow before the market opens. eTrade is showing it as gapping up $1! I hope so. 

Arrghh ... well, it beat by 4 cents on 2Q profits up 26%, and now it's gapped _down_ more than $3. :sob:


----------



## willow_girl

Clove, I just took a look at your new one ... that is an eye-popping dividend, alright! 

I'm putting it on my watch list. Thanks!


----------



## clovis

willow_girl said:


> Clove, I just took a look at your new one ... that is an eye-popping dividend, alright!
> 
> I'm putting it on my watch list. Thanks!


Willow,

Just remember that it is a royalty trust. This stock is set to expire in 2021, or when a set amount of the oil is pumped out and sold. They've already pumped and sold 9% of the 100%. When that reaches 100%, or in the year 2021, that stock is worth $0. Yep, that is right...zero, nada, zilch.


----------



## willow_girl

Yikes!

I don't know much about those trusts, that's for sure. 

I was telling DH about your WHZ, and he had me look at SDR, which he owns ...although it is off 8% since he bought in April, so I can't say I'd recommend it! :teehee:


----------



## clovis

I'm just chasing yield with WHZ, to be quite honest.

As a side note: Of course, I think _all_ energy is going to be hot. There is growing world demand, and, really, if you study it, all the easy oil has been found, pumped out, and is on a declining path. I remember years ago, a college professor of mine was talking about the oil sands in Canada, and he predicted that even if there was a cheap way to refine it, it would never be worth pulling out of the ground. They've been mining it now for many years, and I read as long as oil is over $50 a barrel, the oil sands are profitable. WHZ is not an oil sand stock, but you see what I mean, right? 

Until the Chevy Volt is sold by the millions, I strongly suspect that oil is going to be high, and only get higher.

So, in a nutshell, my long term strategy is to buy oil and energy stocks.

I'm hoping to see some growth with WHZ, gather some dividends, and dump the stock sometime down the road. Let's hope it works out for me!!!


----------



## Michael W. Smith

clovis said:


> I'm just chasing yield with WHZ, to be quite honest.
> 
> I think energy is going to be hot. / I strongly suspect that oil is going to be high, and only get higher.
> I'm hoping to see some growth with WHZ, gather some dividends, and dump the stock sometime down the road.


Sounds good to me. Oil is used in so many things (other than gas) until oil is in short supply (or so expensive) other things to use won't be investigated.

However, I was doing some reading on it, and according to the information I viewed, WHZ was formed December 2011 and went public 03/23/12. "As of June 30, WHZ has produced 68% of the allowed production. In WHZ's most recent dividend announcement, the Trust states that WHZ will terminate on or about August 2015."

While a 18.60% dividend yield is great, I"m afraid you may be playing with fire. I would stick with real oil stocks - BP, CVX, MRO, MPC, XOM. While the dividend is alot less, you will own shares in a huge company and their share price will almost never, certainly go to $0.

Of course, what do I know? My "guarantee" on Sunoco hasn't come to yield yet. I'm still waiting on them to be bought out and merged and grab my $50.00 a share and run. Supposed to happen in the 3rd quarter - we are nearing the end of the 3rd quarter and no news at all.


----------



## clovis

MWS-

Are you sure that you're not thinking about WHX?

WHX is another royalty trust set up by Whiting, and it does expire in 2015.

WHZ, on the other hand, which is also a royalty trust by Whiting, has about 9 years left in it.


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Yes Clovis, you are correct. I'm getting WHX mixed up with WHZ - forget about my past post!!

Good news! Right after I mentioned about not hearing about Sunoco's upcoming merger, they let news out that the paperwork is being sent out to approve the merger. I got two packets in the mail yesterday.

One is to vote on the merger. So I voted and got it in the mail.

The other packet is how you want your shares to be treated after the merger is complete. Do I want $50.00 / share, do I want $25.00 / share plus .5245 of ETP, or do I want to turn each share of SUN stock into 1.049 shares of ETP?

Hmmmm. Yesterday SUN closed at $47.74. I can get my $50.00 cash and be gone. OR

I can get $25.00 cash plus .5245 shares of ETP. ETP closed yesterday at $43.37 making the .5245 shares worth a little over $21.70. $25.00 & $21.70 is $46.70. OR

I can turn each share of SUN into 1.049 shares of ETP. (ETP has a nice yield of 8.40%!)


----------



## clovis

So, what are you going to do?

The yield of ETP is attractive at 8.4%. Would you buy ETP on the open market, at today's prices?


----------



## Michael W. Smith

At this point - I'm not sure. 

If I take the cash, I come out with around a $150.00 profit. 
If I take the $25.00 plus .5245 shares of ETP for each share of SUN, I would get half of my investment back plus get $118.00 in dividends a year.
If I take the 1.049 for each share for each share of SUN, I would get $236.60 in dividends a year.

ETP seems to a solid company, and you certainly can't sneeze at a yield of 8.40%.

I'll probably skip taking all cash, and get some shares of ETP.


----------



## clovis

That is a nice play. Congrats!!!

I'm still puzzled as to why the market hasn't filled the gap. You would have thought that the leveraged options traders, or even investors like us on the forum, would have run SUN to the back door of $50.

Is ETP a MLP?


----------



## clovis

Anyone still trading?

I was hoping to pick up a few shares of KO today. Tomorrow is the ex-date. I'm not crazy about the less than 3% dividend, but it seems to be a more safe stock.

FWIW, I had a broker recently pushing KO really hard. He is hot on the stock, but I think I'll ease into it on pull backs if possible.


----------



## frogmammy

I'm still in...making a few $$$ every now and then. STILL holding on to NTRI, but that's not bad, it has a nice dividend.

Mon


----------



## Marshloft

Just trying to get back where I was before I was interupted.
The bosses son came in and ask if he could do a trade on some penny stocks.
He gauranteed I get payed back if a loss.
Well,, the firs day he actually made 100.00. That got hime excited, so, he did
it again the next day,, lost 500.00.
The last 2 weeks I've recouped 200. of his losses, still have 200.00 to go just to get back where I was.
Today I watched 2 of my stocks ever so slowly go down.
I think I'm so discouraged,, I just walked away from my computer and didn't even want to see.
GH


----------



## willow_girl

I'm getting my butt kicked right now, too, Marshy!

I'm not expecting any drastic improvements until after the election.


----------



## clovis

Nice to see that you are all still around. I was feeling a bit lonely for a while, LOL.

FWIW, I see that Scottrade has free trading for new accounts for the first 70 days. No minimum balance, etc. If you are a heavy trader, that could be a lucrative deal.


----------



## willow_girl

Sometimes I look back to see how stocks I held previously are doing at present. Usually this elicits weeping and gnashing of teeth. Today was no exception ...

Back at the end of June, I bought 300 shares of LNDC and sold them the following day for a profit of about $100. 

Sounds good, right? Unless you consider the stock has gone up $2.39 a share since then ... :sob:


----------



## frogmammy

Same thing here...IRBT, RGR, WGO.... Sniff.... 

Mon


----------



## Halfway

QE#....so let's get extra heavy on the banks!!!!!

OIL is going to further explode as well. The leverage is cheap!

Bubble Ben wants to keep his job and he has been promised this, so now we goose this economy further towards the cliff and dream of unicorns and rainbows, weeeeeeee

Ok, so banks and oil. :boring:


----------



## Michael W. Smith

willow_girl said:


> Sometimes I look back to see how stocks I held previously are doing at present. Usually this elicits weeping and gnashing of teeth. Today was no exception ...


Well, with hindsight alot of people would do things differently!!!!!! Kind of like the just recently departed soul that hasn't left earth yet and is looking at their body in their now mangled up car. "I knew I should have waited to pass the car in front of me. I just thought "something" was coming around the curve that I couldn't quite see." 

I don't know. I just don't get Sunoco either. I went ahead and filled out my paperwork to get all ETP stock - I just can't get past that 8.4% yield!! Today SUN closed at $46.85. I would think you guys could still get in - the "vote" isn't until I think October 4th.

On the plus side, I'm happy to report that my IRA and 401(k) are doing better. (For a while, they just seemed to be sitting there.)


----------



## Halfway

JEF
WFC
BAC
.......at these levels.

COP
CVX
PSX
XOM on the dips.

Dividends of above 3% in the meantime.


----------



## clovis

Halfway said:


> COP
> CVX
> PSX
> XOM on the dips.
> 
> Dividends of above 3% in the meantime.


I like these stocks too. I'm not to hot on XOM, but that is just me.

Hope you do well on all of them, and make a fortune!


----------



## willow_girl

Frustrated here. For awhile now, I've been dabbling in natural gas stocks, specifically companies that are involved in some aspect of fueling vehicles with CNG. With gasoline at nearly $4 a gallon, this technology seems like a no-brainer to me, and it's already being widely used in Asia. Yet these stocks seem to be going NOWHERE ... ?!

I'm out at the moment, and on the fence about jumping back in. CLNE and LNG are the companies I'm looking at ... but I'm hesitating because the rest of my portfolio is getting beat up soooo badly at the moment!


----------



## Halfway

clovis said:


> I like these stocks too. I'm not to hot on XOM, but that is just me.
> 
> Hope you do well on all of them, and make a fortune!


XOM is an established position. I add on the dips of a couple percent or better (rolling week).

DUK and EPD for additional exposure as well.

These are not trades, but positions and long term investments. Good value at this point.


----------



## clovis

I'm not too hot on XOM due that the growth seems too flat. It is probably an excellent stock, especially for those who bought at lower prices, or have had a long term position. Probably a strong long term investment stock, nonetheless, especially since I believe oil will remain strong in the future.

I like DUK too, but I did read an article that says that currently their payout ratio on their dividend is too high, at least for now. I think things will settle with the merger given a little time, and will most likely make a great investment. 

Personally, I like EXC, but like DUK, they are going to need some time to work out and cash flow their recent merger. I also think that there could be a rocky road ahead for EXC, due to a number of factors. I am trying to decide if another position in EXC is right for me...the yield is great right now, as is the stock price. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## clovis

I'm pretty torn, BTW, about which stock to buy next.

On one hand, I like VZ and COP. I think these are strong long term investments, with lower yields. The down side to VZ is that it is near it's 52 week high. I feel like I am paying a premium for the quality. 

On the other hand, I like EXC. Yield is nearly 6%, and the stock price has tanked from a year high of $45. I think EXC is facing a rocky road in the months and few years ahead, due to cash flow, lower revenues, debt issues, etc., but EXC might be bargained priced right now.

One small other decision I am considering is that VZ has an ex-dividend date coming early in October, whereas EXC isn't until November, IIRC. 

Should I go with quality, even though VZ is expensive right now and pick up a dividend pretty quickly, or go with a much riskier EXC, and wait for it's better paying yield?


----------



## Marshloft

I'm so mad at myself,, I could spit nails.
Back in july, I bought 200 NSM for 18.00,, and 100 CRUS for 28.00 Got afraid my I wasn't reading the charts correctly,, and sold both later. 
Too ashamed to even sign my name.


----------



## Bret

Everytime that I go for a pasture walk in my good clothes, I try to stay upwind of all cows by at least 30 feet. Still, I get something on me. It's just gonna happen once in a while.


----------



## willow_girl

Who got a boost from the debate?! 

If this is a sign of things to come, I can't wait 'til we get rid of this nitwit who's in the Oval Office now!


----------



## Marshloft

my stocks went down or just staying level.
Being honest,, I didn't pick my stocks according to what I know to be best.
So I deserve to get what I'm getting.
I have to sell what I have,, and go back and do some more studying.
I did well in the beginning,, and then went away from what I knew was the correct way of analizing a particular stock.
I feel I should have seen stocks like NSM and CRUS taking new highs time after time.
I did see both several months ago,, I just ignored my own understanding.
Sometimes,, I feel I'm better at finding the right stocks,, but someone else should be in charge of the trigger finger.
Any way,,, I'm down 12,00.00 since aug. My fault too.
GH


----------



## willow_girl

> Sometimes,, I feel I'm better at finding the right stocks,, but someone else should be in charge of the trigger finger.


You and me both, Marshy!

And ... I'm down $1800 right now, but I think things will turn around after November. If you're holding good, solid companies, I say sit tight and wait for the first quarter of '13. 

I was taking a beating on the stocks I was holding at this time last year, and they all came back up and made a profit for me early this year. 

And next year I'll listen to DH when he says, "Sell in May and stay away." ound:


----------



## clovis

willow_girl said:


> I can't wait 'til we get rid of this nitwit who's in the Oval Office now!


What? Did someone let Romney into the White House?

LOL.


----------



## willow_girl

OK, I deserved that for dragging politics into this thread! 

Clovis, do you still have your LLY? I hope so, 'cause right now it's on a tear!


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## clovis

Yes, I still have my LLY, and thank you for remembering.

Talk about being excited yesterday, and then again this morning!!!!! I'm not sure that this recent run up will last, but it is fun for the time being. Just think, at one time, I was waiting for a pullback to $38. What was I thinking? Then, later, I almost picked up a few more shares at $42, but decided against it, hoping to pick them up at $40. 

Nonetheless, I'll probably own LLY for a long while. It is the dividend that keeps on giving. 

Since LLY is located in Indianapolis, I've grown up around people who are lifelong shareholders. I know a gal that is 86, and she started buying LLY back in the late 40's, still owns all of her shares, and is living on the dividends that the company pays.


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## willow_girl

Oh carp, I think I jinxed you, Clove! :teehee:

DH dumped his LLY today. I guess a correction was bound to happen after that run, eh? 

I didn't see where it finished so maybe it came back up. Hope so!


----------



## clovis

Nah, you didn't jinx me. I think it closed at $50.24.

I've been watching LLY for 4 years now, and these spikes and dips aren't totally unusual. These spikes and dips are often based on news that a trial worked or failed. A trial drug that failed a while back cratered the stock for a day or two, causing it to fall back 2.50+/-.

What I want to see is FDA approval on a drug. That is the kind of news that will really help the share price.

Is your DH going to jump back in on LLY? It has a nice strong dividend, and LLY was a dividend aristocrat until 2009, or something like that.


----------



## clovis

Nah, you didn't jinx me. I think it closed at $50.24.

I've been watching LLY for 4 years now, and these spikes and dips aren't totally unusual. These spikes and dips are often based on news that a trial worked or failed. A trial drug that failed a while back cratered the stock for a day or two, causing it to fall back 2.50+/-.

What I want to see is FDA approval on a drug. That is the kind of news that will really help the share price.

Is your DH going to jump back in on LLY? It has a nice strong dividend, and LLY was a dividend aristocrat until 2009, or something like that.


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## willow_girl

I don't know, Clovis.

I stay right the heck away from pharmaceutical stocks for the exact reason you described. One bad drug is all it takes to send the price spiraling down! :teehee:

Since you like dividends, Clovis, here is one for your consideration: PAA. I'm thinking of picking it up for my IRA.


----------



## clovis

I hear ya, WG.

Remember Oraflex? It was a drug that LLY had many moons ago, and LLY got the daylights sued out of them. 

As a side note, did you see LLY today? Another $2+ gain on early news that a cancer drug may have done what it was supposed to do in trails. I'm still looking for hard and sure-fire results before we will see big gains and growth that will last. 

And yes, I like PAA. It is on my watch list! 

Oh, BTW, what is going on with RNDY? Was there a dividend cut?


----------



## Halfway

PPHM is ready for a strong and short term bounce opportunity.  Looking for strength after the first half hour of trading and then long.


----------



## Halfway

Halfway said:


> PPHM is ready for a strong and short term bounce opportunity. Looking for strength after the first half hour of trading and then long.


No strength today and GOOG's action is not helping. Will continue to watch this as it will bounce soon.


----------



## Guest

Happy Black Monday anniversary!! 25 years ago today, the most horrific one day selloff ever. 22 1/2% one day drop in the Dow. I wouldn't be long today for a pocket full of circus peanuts.


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## clovis

zong said:


> Happy Black Monday anniversary!! 25 years ago today, the most horrific one day selloff ever. 22 1/2% one day drop in the Dow.


I remember that day very well.

I have a vivid memory of listening to the news of the crash on the radio, and wondering what it all meant. I recall the old timers back then, all talking about the 1929 crash. Those old timers were alive when the 'big' crash happened.

And for whatever reason, the thing I remember the most is riding with my dad late in the afternoon, in his company owned truck, and we had WIBC-AM radio on, listening to the news of the day. I remember minute details of that day, as if they happened yesterday, not 25 years ago. But, for what it's worth, I have no idea why I had caught a ride with my dad.


----------



## Guest

Well, I guess I was right too, about not being long Friday. Very few stocks escaped that whipping. Being pretty much of a perma-bear I have my algorithms set to identify potential fail scenarios and Thursday mornings failed run at Wednesdays high set up a good short. The "accidental" early release of Googles earnings was just gravy, and with a market already showing failure to reach previous highs, it had to be at least a 2 day dump.


----------



## clovis

So, Zong, what are you showing for the upcoming week?


----------



## Guest

Well, I look for patterns, BUT, it's not a religion. In other words, If I go short at a pop to 1440, and it keeps moving against me, I get out while the loss is manageable. I don't mind a couple points against me(2 points equals $100 in Emini S&P futures) When theres a better than even chance of much more profit. At the very first minute of the floor open in the markets Friday, there was clearly selling underway, a continuation of Thursdays action. I show the ES(S&P futures) at 1449.75 at the first tick of the official market open. If you believed, as I did, that the market was going ot sell down further, you could put in your short at that point with a 2 point stop. On the other hand, if you're cautious, as I am you'd wait for the first bounce to top out. Which happened 10 minutes later, at 1447.5. And a pathetic bounce it was. At 4:00 ES tapped 1424.5, a 13 point($650) move from the first bounce. I never, ever enter a trade without a stop right where the prior congregation of activity is. 

At any rate, look at this one year chart. Notice that the uptrend(line A) is about to be violated. Also, the previous high(line B) is not too far away. If both line A and line B are violated, there will most likely be a pretty stiff period of decline. Notice Lines C and D, from earlier in the year, as an example. 

Od course, none of this is written in stone, but thats how observations work. You learn from the past. If I'm wrong, I'll get stopped out, no big deal. However, I never trade in terms of months, weeks, or even days. When I do, which is rarely any more, I watch the open, look for the bounce or retrace ,and go from there. My entry Friday was at the first bounce, I went short, and once I got a hundred dollars ahead, put my stop to take me out once I'm only $50 ahead. Then just check in every once in a while. Around 11:30, I noticed 1440 was broke, and moved my stop there, which , if it bounced back to 1440, would take me out with 6 points gain. 

Anyway, here's the one year chart. Many times in the past, I've spoken about the wisdom of using stops and charts, and theres always somebody who tells me that it can't be true and I'm just mean because I think people that take huge losses only have themselves to blame. And some people think it's unpatriotic to go short. I don't hope the market will fall. I can see that people scare into selling a whole lot easier than they scare into buying.


----------



## Guest

Here's a chart of Friday's ES action. Note the high at the 9:30 open, and a second, lower high at 9:40, then a steady decline, with some bounces along the way. If I wanted to trade the bounces, under the assumption that would be the "easy money" I would have looked for those setups, and used stops accordingly. The best long setup was the double bottom at 2:30 and 2:50 in the afternoon. Something similar at 12:20 and 12:30.


----------



## clovis

Zong,

Thank you for sharing the info and the charts.

I am such a neophyte at reading the charts, that, umm, I am a little speechless. Nonetheless, I am learning a little more each time you post, and am trying to figure out how to apply it to my trading.

Silence on my part doesn't mean that your post doesn't generate interest...it is quite the opposite. I've spent the last day or so in wonderment, studying and learning.


----------



## clovis

Zong,

When you say:

"If both line A and line B are violated, there will most likely be a pretty stiff period of decline."

In terms of the Dow, would you think that, according to the charts, there will be another drop in the Dow of 500 points? Or maybe just 200?

Sorry to be asking such basic, kindergarten level questions.


----------



## Guest

I don't ever think along those lines. Based on the Action when line D broke, notice that it broke and bounced twice before it broke down hard shortly after the first of May. That ended with a 70 point selloff in the S&P before the first decent bounce day. Thar same time period(May 7-June 1) resulted in 890 points selloff in the Dow. I don't think thats particularly relevant though. I trade bear call spreads and S&P mini-futures and don't really think about such things. A bear call spread is a lock, and all my other trading has automatic attached stops. I would never, ever buy a stock and just hold it like you guys seem to do. But, that's me. I have friends that lost their homes in the tech collapse. 
My personal thinking is that the economy is headed for some very serious problems and most people that are holding stock have learned a little something since 2000. I don't think folks will hold through another precipitous decline like 2000-2003 or '08-'09. 
Of course, theres the undeniably fact that the whole thing is rigged by big banks and brokers. Thats why I trade the way I do, I jump on after the direction is set. I don't ever try to fight the big money. Whichever way they're pushing it, I'm just along for a few bucks. My needs are minimal, my wants do not even involve money. It's easier when you're not attached to it. Lot of stress though. Even more if it's your whole life savings! 
But, when you look at charts, and see what happened before, that's what you can have a reasonably concern that it will happen again.


----------



## Guest

Took down chart after Clovis looked at it, And the text is senseless without the chart.


----------



## clovis

Wow...just wow. 

I have so much to learn. I've understood the principle behind what you are saying, but haven't had it explained with a chart in standard English.

*I am thankful for your help and for your time.* I've always had an interest in the type of trading that you are doing...it is probably the smartest way to trade, bar none. You are making money no matter how the market moves, whereas, in my buy and hold for the dividend method, I have everything to lose, and little to gain in the short haul. 

I'm going to need a little time for this to sink in, and I've been super busy today, so bear with me.

Again, thank you!!!!!


----------



## clovis

Wow, Zong, you nailed the market drop to a tee!!!

Dow is currently down 240, and looks like it is going to drop even more.


----------



## InvalidID

This day in 1929 was the start of the Great Depression.... Black Thursday.


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## clovis

Hey, Invalid. 

Where ya been? Are you still trading?


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## willow_girl

I am not even gonna LOOK at my portfolio tonight ... :sob:


----------



## InvalidID

clovis said:


> Hey, Invalid.
> 
> Where ya been? Are you still trading?


 No I'm not trading anymore this year. I hit my mark and bailed out and on to other things. I'm starting to pay attention again to see how the year ends and how I might want to line up come Jan. or Feb.


----------



## clovis

willow_girl said:


> I am not even gonna LOOK at my portfolio tonight ... :sob:


I looked at mine. It is pretty ugly.

Save yourself some grief.


----------



## willow_girl

I looked. :sob:

The stock I _want,_ though -- PAA -- only went down a few cents. Grrrr.


----------



## Guest

You *want* to be part owner of a company with 12 *million* dollars cash, but 7 *billion* debt?? Priced at $45 per share but with an actual book value of $18? and with only 3.18% profit margin?? Expected to make less money next year than this year? Why??


----------



## clovis

zong said:


> You *want* to be part owner of a company with 12 *million* dollars cash, but 7 *billion* debt?? Priced at $45 per share but with an actual book value of $18? and with only 3.18% profit margin?? Expected to make less money next year than this year? Why??


Are you talking about PAA?

PAA is on my watch list, but I've studied their company one bit.


----------



## frogmammy

willow_girl said:


> I am not even gonna LOOK at my portfolio tonight ... :sob:


REALLY good idea! LOL! I'm buoyed up by the fact that next year is going to be GREAT! 

Probably.

Fact is, I made more from the stock market this year than I made in interest on $$$ in the bank...and I have 10x the money in the bank!

It's fun!

Mon


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Well folks, I decided with Sunoco I would take it in shares of ETP instead of getting cash.

For some reason, my sister who wanted the $50.00 in cash, is getting the $25.00 per share plus some shares of ETP. I don't know if she filled out the paperwork incorrectly, if they didn't get it, or what.

So, I sent $3000.00 in and bought Sunoco in June. My whole shares are turning into shares of ETP. My fractional shares I got a check of $40.25. I should now have 66 shares of ETP, and with it trading at $42.64 right now, along with my check of $40.25, my $3000.00 investment is worth $2854.49, so I'm down $145.51. 

But I am confident that shares of ETP are going to go up, and the yearly dividend of $3.58 / share will pay off!

I'm still kicking myself over my IRA contribution I made to McDonald's. I had thought of buying AEP, but stuck with McDonalds. I"m down $11.83 per share with McDonalds. If I would have bought AEP, I would be up $6.60 per share with AEP.


----------



## clovis

MWS-

Thank you for the update on the Sunoco deal. I've learned about something to watch for in the future.

You're not the only one down on an oil stock. I've gotten hammered on my shares of BPT, down about $17 a share at my last check. The dividend is nice, and has offered a great return, so I'm not out too much right now.

Talking about BPT: This stock got some bad press on Seeking Alpha and the WSJ. I don't believe that any articles were correct on facts, but the authors perpetuated some fear.

As for MCD, I have a broker that keeps pushing this stock, as well as KO. I think that MCD is a solid company, but it has too many swings in the stock price to be jumping in when he was pushing it. I'm still unsure why he was so hot on it when it was at a 52 week high.

I still have AEP on my watch list, but have opted for EXC recently. Do you own any EXC?

Do you own KO in your IRA? What do you think of KO? What do you think of it's yield?


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Clovis, if I would have taken the $50.00 in cash per share, I would have gotten a check of $3189.50 - so I would have made a profit of $189.50. I decided on the shares of ETP, because I think it's going to be a company that does well in the future - and their dividend is good.

No, I don't own any KO. I know KO isn't going to go anywhere, and the dividend of 2.80% seems fairly good. It's a good solid company.

I've looked at EXC several times and always passed it up - not because it was a bad company but because I thought my other picks would do better. It seems to be slightly above the 52 week low, and the dividend of 5.90% looks good. I think this would be a good purchase at this time.

You have to remember all my stock purchases are made direct through the company - so for IRAs, I have IRA's with XOM, MCD, & VZ. And I have an IRA with an insurance company that is guaranteed to pay no less than 3%. Also an IRA with Vanguard.

Depending on what MCD is doing at the beginning of the year, I'll either put more money in there, or start a new IRA with AEP.

I have 20 years until retirement, so whatever I do buy now, will probably look like I got a bargain 20 years from now!


----------



## clovis

Is anyone else having a hard time with the market being closed to Hurricane Sandy?

I bet I've picked up my phone 55 times today to check the market.

This has shown me that I really do have my head in the market...and too much idle time, LOL.


----------



## willow_girl

The bad news is, the market's closed.
The good news is, I'm not losing any more money ... :teehee:


----------



## clovis

Scottrade is reporting that the markets will reopen in the morning.

I am kind of surprised...I thought half of New York was under water, not to mention the subway system.


----------



## willow_girl

Did anyone make a bundle off storm-related stocks today?

Lowe's and Home Depot both saw nice gains.

A waste management stock DH had earlier this year -- CLH -- went up almost $9! 

Too bad he sold it ... guess today was his "MLNX moment"! ound:


----------



## clovis

I'm taking it on the chin today with EXC.

The CEO has announced a possible dividend cut in the future with their stock. 

The company, many months ago, reiterated again and again that "we are strongly committed to maintaining the current dividend level."

I think EXC knew all along about the possible dividend cut, as did the insiders. The stock had been floating in the $40 to $45 range for a long time, and then it plunged to under $40 and hasn't come back since.

Today's $2.20 drop puts me down about 5 points on some shares, and about 3 points on some of the others.

This is what happens when one company pays waaaaay too much for another in a merger. It makes me wonder why being one of the largest utilities in the US really matters? Who has won so far?


----------



## willow_girl

I'm sorry to hear that, Clovis.


----------



## Marshloft

I was actually up 140.00 today,, one actually surpassed by a few cents where I bought it. The other still has a buck fifty to go.
so,, the 140.00 is better than 4 days ago,, still down 1100. I'll get there,,, I have to.
GH


----------



## clovis

willow_girl said:


> I'm sorry to hear that, Clovis.


Thanks...I always enjoy a little company when I experience some misery.

If the dividend cut would be a few cents, its really no biggie. But for the stock to drop $2.20 in a single day, I am guessing that the cut will be pretty significant.

Nonetheless, I am in the market for the long haul. Hopefully, this is just a minor speed bump along the way.


----------



## willow_girl

I hope so, too, for your sake, Clove.

But then I'm still hanging on to poor RNDY ... ound:

Still eying CLNE and, especially, LNG. Guess I haven't lost enough money yet; I'm just a glutton for punishment!


----------



## clovis

Thanks, WG.

RNDY has taken a beating. Let's hope they have some great quarters that beat estimates!!!


----------



## willow_girl

And that they don't reduce their dividend!!!

Was just now looking at some stocks I've had this year and how they've fared since I sold them.

WLK (a perennial favorite) peaked above $80 in October -- unfortunately I sold it around $59 in March.


----------



## willow_girl

Did you see where Jim Cramer predicted an Obama win???
And my husband listens to him for stock tips! :run:


----------



## willow_girl

Oops, I guess Jim was right and I was WRONG! ound: ound: ound:

This is why he's making the big bucks and I milk cows for a living! :teehee:


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Third day in a row since the election that stocks are down. I think everyone is afraid of the tax hikes that are coming and not sure if the government can work out a solution. I guess they figure they might as sell now and pay the lower tax for this year, rather than waiting until closer to the end of the year and waiting and seeing.

I think if they do come up with a plan to reinstate the tax cuts, stocks will go up. (So if you have cash sitting off to the side . . . . . . . .)

Of course, if they don't reinstate the tax cuts, we might see a big sell off to get the lower taxes for this.


----------



## okiemom

what is a good buy now, if not stocks? real estate, foriegn markets, buy toys?? where do the rich or not rich park money now??


----------



## LoonyK

maybe guns and ammo


----------



## clovis

willow_girl said:


> But then I'm still hanging on to poor RNDY ... ound:


Wow...my heart goes out to you WG.

You took it on the chin today with RNDY, down $1.14, mostly on the dividend cut.

Sorry!!!!!!! I really do feel for you. 

What are you going to do? Hold it? Sell it off?


----------



## clovis

Michael W. Smith said:


> Third day in a row since the election that stocks are down. I think everyone is afraid of the tax hikes that are coming and not sure if the government can work out a solution. I guess they figure they might as sell now and pay the lower tax for this year, rather than waiting until closer to the end of the year and waiting and seeing.
> 
> I think if they do come up with a plan to reinstate the tax cuts, stocks will go up. (So if you have cash sitting off to the side . . . . . . . .)
> 
> Of course, if they don't reinstate the tax cuts, we might see a big sell off to get the lower taxes for this.


Personally, I think there is more to it than just that. Bad news out of Europe, as well as the fiscal cliff, have hammered the markets.

I think this will give us a buying opportunity, but at the same time, it is like catching a falling knife. Where is the bottom?


----------



## willow_girl

clovis said:


> Wow...my heart goes out to you WG.
> 
> You took it on the chin today with RNDY, down $1.14, mostly on the dividend cut.
> 
> Sorry!!!!!!! I really do feel for you.
> 
> What are you going to do? Hold it? Sell it off?


You would have to tell me, Clovis! I haven't been looking at my portfolio. I don't want to :sob:


----------



## frogmammy

IRBT is breaking my heart right now....I bought at 23 

Mon


----------



## clovis

We've talked about Cramer on this thread. I happen to like the show, mostly because I get a better take and different understanding of the market. 

I do not follow Cramer for any buy or sell recommendations. With that said, it will be interesting to see what type of impact he has on TSRO. Cramer made a very strong case for the company on Friday's Mad Money, and placed a buy recommendation on the stock.

On Friday, before the show, TSRO closed at 15.03. 

It will be interesting to see how much his pitch will impact the stock price.


----------



## clovis

willow_girl said:


> You would have to tell me, Clovis! I haven't been looking at my portfolio. I don't want to :sob:


Sorry to be such a heartbreak to you!!!!

Please don't shoot the messenger, LOL.


----------



## Guest

You don't get to be worth a hundred million dollars by trying to help other people make money. 
On the other hand, charts never lie.


----------



## clovis

Well, it looks like Jim Cramer has a following after all.

TSRO closed at 15.99.

This would have made a nice spec play today, if you are able to do that. As for me, a buy and hold for TSRO doesn't show as much value as a stock as LLY does. At least LLY has a decent pipeline, and it pays a good dividend.


----------



## clovis

zong said:


> You don't get to be worth a hundred million dollars by trying to help other people make money.
> On the other hand, charts never lie.


Zong,

I'd love to learn more about reading charts. I understand the basic concept, but being able to use it, even on a beginner's level, for what I am buying...I am lost.

I need to learn how to apply chart reading, but where do you start?

FWIW, my investing is primarily for retirement. While I am financially sound, I am behind the eight ball in my retirement savings. I've been focusing on high yielding dividend stocks with a buy and hold mentality.

How can I apply charts to the stocks that I am buying and the investing strategy that I am using?

I _know_ that you are right about using charts for spec plays and day trades. I simply don't have the money to play that way, but I wish that I did.

I'd give my eye teeth to be able to play the market like you do...and have the capital to make it worthwhile. Do you know how much I would like to clip off $300 in profit three times a week? I'd drive a pretty fancy Cadillac down to your place just to thank you personally!!!!!

Is there any way to play the market like you do, but start off small? I'd love to have both the income and growth in my retirement account. 

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions??? Advice? 

I really would like to learn. Those new Caddy CTS-V's in black with black leather really are sharp, and I'd like to be on a first name basis with Bob Poynter's GM World, LOL.


----------



## Guest

There is more information on the internet about reading charts than you can read in a lifetime. Everything I learned was so long ago, I actually helped discover a lot of the stuff you can find now. A bunch of guys in a chat room, helping each other, and one keeping notes and selling the results. Ah, well. 
I've seen catastrophic drops in fairly stable companies so often, I know how to see if a company is worth it's price. And I understand option straddles around known news events. I particularly like credit spreads, for individual stocks, or index proxies. However, my true preference is for index futures. If you keep your stops fairly tight, the end of the world won't even hurt much(financially, that is) Limit your losses, let your gains run. Bad news in any one company won't crash an entire index. And, if it does, the tight stop will protect you. Trading futures, you never have to wake up to find your company had lowered earnings expectations and is gapping down 20 points. Futures are traded both up and down. So, if you follow the charts, you see the changes, and you change directions. Nothing to it. Kind of boring, because when you find your groove, you stick to it and never second guess the signal. 
Incidentally, money don't really mean much. It's mostly about being right.


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## clovis

Okay, how much free cash would I need to have to make small trades? What is the minimum?

My round trip costs are $14 on Scottrade. 

Would it be possible to pick off $50 or $100 in profits with a small balance?


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## clovis

Oh, I forgot to mention that I have read tons of stuff on the internet about charts. I also had a friend that paid to belong to a chat room where both pump and dump and chart reading was being practiced. While he was doing that kind of gambling, I tuned into whatever I could learn.

My big problem is learning how to apply it in the real world.

With that said, I am in the flea market business. You'd be surprised how many people think that there is something mysterious in the flea market business, and some keep coming to me month after month, in awe, and they keep asking the same questions about getting started. Really, there is nothing to it, just plunk down $85 for rent and put your stuff in the booth, and see how it sells.

I guess I feel like one of those people. I am a little in awe of how you work the market...but I am just too dumb to figure out how to start!!!


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## Guest

I just spent 10 minutes typing only to hit a key with my thumb and close the window!! Anyway, I don't know what different brokerage firms require as a minimum to start an account. I use IB. Margin requirements are $2188 for the S&P mini-future, and you need at least $2000 to be able to trade anything on margin, which all futures are. I'd think you'd want $500 at least as a bumper against bad trades. You'd need to develop your algorithm, stops, etc and trade a simulator account for weeks before trading real money.
On IB, my commissions are 1/2 cent per share for stock, 200 for a dollar with a minimum dollar per trade commission. So, $2.00 per round trip . Options run from a few cents to a dollar per contract. Nasdaq, S&P, and Dow Jones futures are 2.01 commission.


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## clovis

Let's say I had the margin requirements and $2,500 to trade with.

Could I do much good and make much using the $2,500?

My neighbor trades currency on a mini-deal scenario where he can make as much as $100 per mini contract, but his losses are stopped out at $50 or $100. He tries to make two trades a day with the $900 that he uses in that account. It is still very much a wash right now, but he is happy as a lark making $50 a day.


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## clovis

BTW, Zong, I am going to try to catch some sleep. It's been a long day.

Thank you for your help!!!!


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## Marshloft

Start here if you want to learn charts.
Stock Investment Research & Education - Business & Financial News - IBD - Investors.com

William O'Niel owns the paper and is the author of several books on how to invest and on learning to read charts.
And its tue,,, charts never lie.
GH


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## clovis

Zong, what happened to you?

I've slept twice since you last posted, LOL.

Nonetheless, thank you for your help! I do appreciate it!!!


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## Guest

I wanted to post this chart, current as of right now. This is the same chart as I posted on 10/21, same lines I drew, but the chart is up to date. I added "E" to show the date I posted the original. (post 405 in this thread)

If you go back, read that post, and the few on either side of it, you'll get the context. Anyway, the point is that if you were a chart reader, this chart would actually be what you expected back then, given the criteria stated, breaking support lines, etc. By reading such charts, you can protect yourself from the agony many are feeling from that date until this one. Also, note that in my posts then, I said " Based on the Action when line D broke, notice that it broke and bounced twice before it broke down hard shortly after the first of May. That ended with a 70 point selloff in the S&P before the first decent bounce day. Thar same time period(May 7-June 1) resulted in 890 points selloff in the Dow."

Once again, there was some bouncing around, but once the support line broke, the index has sold off, once again(so far) 70 points. So, a very similar action which was indicated by a very similar chart pattern. That's how they work!! Not really a prediction, but an indication of probable action.


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## clovis

Okay...

How do you know where to put Lines D and E in the chart?

How will you figure out where the bottom of this market is?


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## Guest

E was the date that I made the original post, with the chart and lines A,B,C, and D. As stated previously, Line D was drawn at the previous high, which was on March 1st. The break of the previous high is always a bad sign. In early April, then, again in May.


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## Guest

As long as you're getting higher highs and higher lows you're in an uptrend. When you not only don't get higher highs, but begin to break previous established highs, your uptrend is breaking. Note that the diagonal, uptrend lines break at about the same time the previous established high breaks, within a day or two. You don't want to be long when the market is no longer going up. At least, on index proxies or futures.
ETA: Oh, and you don't predict a bottom, nor a top. You see when the trend breaks, and the previous lows/highs are violated. I use a severely modified moving average that seems to work good, then throw in a filter that keeps me from entries that have a higher percentage of failure. When everything says "Go" that's when I go.


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## clovis

It seems that if you moved line A against the current down trend, and moved B down to the lowest low point on the chart, wouldn't the two intersecting lines indicate that a bottom has been reached, and a new uptrend may start?


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## Guest

You're getting into predicting, an economically dangerous practice. You never assume that you can predict the future, you observe when it's stopped going up(or down) and follow the direction. Remember, you cannot turn the market unless you have trillions of dollars. You can only wait til it's headed your way, and get on for the ride. 
There are "leading indicators" that supposedly indicate when the market "should" turn. However, the market can stay overbought or oversold a lot longer than you can stay liquid. I never, ever fight the trend. You can't just ignore the action. When it stops going down, you'll see it. It could be today, it could be next week. If I were looking to get in long, I wouldn't jump until the direction reverses. Once the current downtrend is broken is the time when I would start going long on any trades that I make.


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## clovis

A nice bump in the market today.

Was anyone able to make a play today?


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## clovis

zong said:


> You're getting into predicting, an economically dangerous practice. You never assume that you can predict the future, you observe when it's stopped going up(or down) and follow the direction. Remember, you cannot turn the market unless you have trillions of dollars. You can only wait til it's headed your way, and get on for the ride.
> There are "leading indicators" that supposedly indicate when the market "should" turn. However, the market can stay overbought or oversold a lot longer than you can stay liquid. I never, ever fight the trend. You can't just ignore the action. When it stops going down, you'll see it. It could be today, it could be next week. If I were looking to get in long, I wouldn't jump until the direction reverses. Once the current downtrend is broken is the time when I would start going long on any trades that I make.


I'm not really wanting to predict the market. I'm just trying to figure it out.

As dumb as I am, it is going to take me while to understand this, and to learn how I can apply it to my trading, or to learn new styles of trading.

How long have you been doing this, Zong? How and where did you learn?

Again, thanks!!!!!


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## Guest

When the internet got going pretty good, there was a whole world of information available that was not at the Caswell county public library. I got seriously interested in charts around 1998, noticing a pattern we referred to at that time as "breakout pattern" When a stock approached a previous high, it would either stall, or, upon breaking the previous high, get a really nice pop. Then in early 2000, as the markets imploded, it became obvious that people who were "holding and hoping" were being hammered. Thats about the time I learned about stops. And also, to avoid individual stocks, except in a straddle type options play. 
Since that time, the markets have become so blatantly manipulated that it's hard to do much of anything. Huge gaps at the open are commonplace. Still, if you watch, you'll see those days where the market goes up, stalls, makes an unmistakable sell signal, then dumps the rest of the day. Or, in reverse, sells, and makes a buy signal. 


When you see something like down 200 points one day, and up 200 the next, you can be assured it's all manipulation. There are not average Joe's out there dumping their stock in a panic one day, then reconsidering and buying back the next. It's all manipulation, all the time.


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## clovis

zong said:


> When you see something like down 200 points one day, and up 200 the next, you can be assured it's all manipulation. There are not average Joe's out there dumping their stock in a panic one day, then reconsidering and buying back the next. It's all manipulation, all the time.


I totally agree. The market is being manipulated.

At the same time, it is nothing new. Just look at the big players during the 1920's. They literally met in person to decide what stocks they were going to pump and dump.

IIRC, the Feds asked them to step back in after the first crash, which was just a few days before the big crash in '29. They obliged, and started buying large quantities of stock, in person, on the floor of the exchange. This buying help build confidence in the markets for a few days...but it was too little...and too late.


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## Michael W. Smith

Hey, where did everyone go? It seems that so far this year, the bulls are keeping the bears out of the area! The majority of my stocks are up from where they were at the end of 2012.

Currently my ETP is up $4.15 for the year. CVX is up $7.21. One of my down stocks is VZ - down $.54.

So where is everyone at, counting all their profits?!?


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## Halfway

Trading ES and adding to investment accounts on the dips.

Buy the dips! This is a bubble that will burst, but get 'em while their hot!!


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## clovis

I'm still here too.

I'm thinking about buying COP for the dividend. Also looking at GSK.


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## clovis

Since it appears that I killed the thread _again_, I thought I would deliver another blow to it by posting one more time, LOL.

I bought a small position in GSK today. Has a current yield of 5.18% on a dividend of 57 cents.


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## clovis

clovis said:


> Since it appears that I killed the thread _again_, I thought I would deliver another blow to it by posting one more time, LOL.
> 
> I bought a small position in GSK today. Has a current yield of 5.18% on a dividend of 57 cents.


I had a nice uptick on GSK today, up $1. 

Too bad that I couldn't have bought more shares yesterday for a quick flip today.

Still nice to be up on a stock...most of the time, the stock plummets after I buy them!


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## willow_girl

Go Clovis!!!

I am still around, albeit not active for awhile. When my husband and I split up in November, I contacted eTrade about having my accounts moved out of his portfolio. They promptly locked down the account, and a month-long nightmare ensued as we tried to wrest back control of our money. Even after we both sent separate notarized instructions regarding the division of the account, it took 3 weeks, and I had to threaten to call my congressman and file a complaint with the SEC! (By some strange coincidence, I had my money the next day. Hmm.)

For the record, I don't think eTrade had any nefarious intent ... their customer service simply leaves something (a lot) to be desired. Caveat emptor ...

I'm still using them, though, mostly because I don't want to liquidate the stocks I'm holding and move my IRA (again, sigh). 

I've only made a couple of trades thus far this year, on two old favorites, LNDC and WOR, but so far, I've made $332!


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## clovis

Sorry to hear about your break up. I had wondered what had happened to you, and I am sorry to learn about the bad news.

Congrats on the $332 profit!!!!

Willow, you should consider moving your account to Scottrade, especially if they have a local office. I like the guys at my local office, and I have someone to yell at, in person, if anything ever goes wrong. Their customer service is top notch!!!!


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## clovis

Interesting week with a few of my stocks:

GSK is up again. I am surprised since most stocks plummet after I buy them!

COP is getting hammered today, down over $3 a share. I _almost_ bought COP instead of GSK, and was on the line about which to buy. I'll admit, it is nice to pick a stock and get lucky once in a while.

And, last but not least, my darling, LLY, the dividend champ has hit another 52 week high this week. Why didn't I buy more???


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## Halfway

I'm adding more COP at these levels. This is solid in many ways and the dividend is decent as well. The spin off of PSX really adds weight to the NG commitment.

Time to accumulate more CAG and TRV. Food and insurance.....


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## clovis

Picking up more shares of COP is a good idea. My real target buy price has been $57 or so, but I think oil is going to be hot in the future.

Of course, my real reason for liking COP is because of the strong dividend. Have you heard about any possible dividend cut on this stock?


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## tarbe

clovis said:


> Of course, my real reason for liking COP is because of the strong dividend. Have you heard about any possible dividend cut on this stock?



Has not happened in the past 30 years...I would not worry about a div cut at COP.


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## tarbe

Speaking of strong dividends....next month WHZ will send me $40k in distributions (it is an MLP, so technically not a dividend).

Shifting gears.......who can answer this question: Why does GM trade at 10.7 times earnings (with no dividend) while Ford trades at 2.7 times earnings with a 3.1% dividend?


Tim


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## LoonyK

lol that is a lot of money in one place.


----------



## Guest

tarbe said:


> Speaking of strong dividends....next month WHZ will send me $40k in distributions (it is an MLP, so technically not a dividend).
> 
> Shifting gears.......who can answer this question: Why does GM trade at 10.7 times earnings (with no dividend) while Ford trades at 2.7 times earnings with a 3.1% dividend?
> 
> 
> Tim


Debt.
Ford has $101 billion debt, 24 billion cash, a net cash value -$77 billion.
GM has $16.65 billion debt, 32 billion cash, a net cash value +$15.5 billion

So, as far as real money goes, GM has $92.5 billion more than Ford.
GM's levered free cash flow last year was -2.2 billion. 
Ford's levered free cash flow last year was -22.1 billion.


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## clovis

tarbe said:


> Ford trades at 2.7 times earnings with a 3.1% dividend?


When did Ford raise their dividend?

I totally missed that. I'm now kicking myself for not buying F at $9 back in the summer!!!!


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## clovis

tarbe said:


> Has not happened in the past 30 years...I would not worry about a div cut at COP.


Thanks!!!

I'll be looking to pick up some shares of COP at some point. I'd still like to get in around $57.


----------



## clovis

tarbe said:


> Speaking of strong dividends....next month WHZ will send me $40k in distributions (it is an MLP, so technically not a dividend).


What are your plans for WHZ? How long do you hope to hold this?


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## tarbe

clovis said:


> What are your plans for WHZ? How long do you hope to hold this?


The expectation is that the properties related to WHZ will be producing and distributing roughly through 2021. It was just opened this past spring.

All else being equal and with the market fairly valuing the distribution streams (this may happen over time, but often is not the case at any one moment in time) the price of the units should decline over the next ~9 years to zero.

In the case with WHX, which is set to expire in a few years, the price has declined from ~$18 to $6. But the distributions have not declined nearly so much, such that WHX is yielding around 35%/year currently. So someone who buys it today will get all their principle back in the form of distributions...and hopefully more (otherwise, why buy it?).

My thought with regard to WHZ (which I hold at an average cost of $17) is to hold it for a few years, to perhaps as long as 5. I would plan to get out long before the expiration becomes a burning issue, impacting the market price in a significant way. If I hold it for 5 years, and it averages 16% yield, I could almost give the units away and break even. Of couse, they won't be worth anywhere near zero.

I am expecting this coming distribution to be about $0.70/unit (last quarter was $0.76/unit). At a unit cost of $17, that is a 16.5% annual yield. I am expecting the yield to be down a little this quarter due to crude prices (prior to this recent run-up) being rather low, in the $80's mostly.

I would not be surprised to see WHZ run up to $18 before the next ex-div date (in two weeks). If oil spikes due to some geo-political event, it will go up more.


Tim


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## tarbe

zong said:


> Debt.


Excellent, thanks.

So, which would you rather own right now, at today's price - assuming you were going to buy one or the other?


Tim


----------



## tarbe

clovis said:


> Thanks!!!
> 
> I'll be looking to pick up some shares of COP at some point. I'd still like to get in around $57.



I have to admit to having a soft spot for COP. The petrochemical company I retired from this past year started its existence as Conoco Chemical Company.

I still consider them a sister company. I dealt with them quite a lot when I was working, and I think they are a pretty good outfit.

I am waiting for a dip to get back in (took some profits this fall). I hope I get a good chance to get back in at a discount!


Tim


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## tarbe

clovis said:


> When did Ford raise their dividend?
> 
> I totally missed that. I'm now kicking myself for not buying F at $9 back in the summer!!!!




Jan 28, 2013	0.10 Dividend
Oct 31, 2012	0.05 Dividend
Aug 1, 2012	0.05 Dividend


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## clovis

tarbe said:


> Jan 28, 2013	0.10 Dividend
> Oct 31, 2012	0.05 Dividend
> Aug 1, 2012	0.05 Dividend


The fact that they doubled their dividend is quite surprising to me. Thanks for the info.


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## clovis

tarbe said:


> I have to admit to having a soft spot for COP. The petrochemical company I retired from this past year started its existence as Conoco Chemical Company.
> 
> I still consider them a sister company. I dealt with them quite a lot when I was working, and I think they are a pretty good outfit.
> 
> I am waiting for a dip to get back in (took some profits this fall). I hope I get a good chance to get back in at a discount!
> 
> 
> Tim


Thanks! 

What price are you hoping to get back in?


----------



## clovis

tarbe said:


> The expectation is that the properties related to WHZ will be producing and distributing roughly through 2021. It was just opened this past spring.
> 
> All else being equal and with the market fairly valuing the distribution streams (this may happen over time, but often is not the case at any one moment in time) the price of the units should decline over the next ~9 years to zero.
> 
> In the case with WHX, which is set to expire in a few years, the price has declined from ~$18 to $6. But the distributions have not declined nearly so much, such that WHX is yielding around 35%/year currently. So someone who buys it today will get all their principle back in the form of distributions...and hopefully more (otherwise, why buy it?).
> 
> My thought with regard to WHZ (which I hold at an average cost of $17) is to hold it for a few years, to perhaps as long as 5. I would plan to get out long before the expiration becomes a burning issue, impacting the market price in a significant way. If I hold it for 5 years, and it averages 16% yield, I could almost give the units away and break even. Of couse, they won't be worth anywhere near zero.
> 
> I am expecting this coming distribution to be about $0.70/unit (last quarter was $0.76/unit). At a unit cost of $17, that is a 16.5% annual yield. I am expecting the yield to be down a little this quarter due to crude prices (prior to this recent run-up) being rather low, in the $80's mostly.
> 
> I would not be surprised to see WHZ run up to $18 before the next ex-div date (in two weeks). If oil spikes due to some geo-political event, it will go up more.
> 
> 
> Tim


Thanks for your thoughts on WHZ.

I hold a very small stake in this stock, and was hoping to dump it sometime in the future. I've had mixed emotions about buying it, and your input has helped me look at the investment in a different light.

Are you still a buyer for WHZ or WHX?


----------



## tarbe

clovis said:


> Thanks!
> 
> What price are you hoping to get back in?


<57 ideally.

If the market corrects like some think is due, this will be more likely to happen!


----------



## tarbe

clovis said:


> Thanks for your thoughts on WHZ.
> 
> I hold a very small stake in this stock, and was hoping to dump it sometime in the future. I've had mixed emotions about buying it, and your input has helped me look at the investment in a different light.
> 
> Are you still a buyer for WHZ or WHX?


I have a *very* large stake in it now, so no intention of increasing (as much as I'd like to).

I have actually been tempted to take some profits, as I purchased some of my shares when the price was below $15.50...some were in the high $14s!

But I have determined that I will ride the dividend with all the shares I own, unless we get a near term pop above $18. In that case, I might trim back a little and take some profits off the table. 

I do not own any WHX and will not play in that casino. The volatility is too much for me!


Tim


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## clovis

Tim,

How long have you been investing in dividend stocks? 

I am relatively new to dividend stocks as a long term investment, and have questions if you don't mind.


----------



## tarbe

clovis said:


> Tim,
> 
> How long have you been investing in dividend stocks?
> 
> I am relatively new to dividend stocks as a long term investment, and have questions if you don't mind.



I didn't get serious until last summer, when I decided I was going to retire. So being relatively new at it, I too have a lot to learn.

I spend at least several hours per day, 7 days per week, studying, reading, thinking about this stuff - trying to climb the learning curve.

Don't be surprised if you ask a question, and get an answer of "I don't know"!


----------



## tarbe

Here's a general question for the more seasoned folks:

Is there a stock screening tool out there that would allow me to pick Graham Number as one of the criteria?

I would like to screen stocks by their Graham Number and dividend yield, without having to calculate the GN manually.

thanks,


Tim


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## Halfway

Insurers, food staples, and energy.....

I am also adding to select banking....WFC

So much printed money flowing into this thing, it's inflating like the previous balloons.


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## Halfway

Here is a good sight for some dividend research and insight. COP is loaded, use the "home" to get back to the start page.

http://www.dividend-growth-stocks.com/2013/01/conocophillips-co-cop-dividend-stock.html#more


----------



## Guest

tarbe said:


> Excellent, thanks.
> 
> So, which would you rather own right now, at today's price - assuming you were going to buy one or the other?
> 
> 
> Tim


Sorry, I just now saw this thread again. The whole cash/debt thing is analogous to how much would you pay for an empty safe as opposed to how much you'd pay for an identical safe, full of five dollar bills. 

I don't buy stocks. There is too much of a possibility for something horrid to happen. I mostly sell credit spreads, take straddles around known news events, and trade index futures based on pattern recognition. IF I were to own a stock, it would only be to write calls on, and I can write the credit spread for as little as $52 (in the case of F bear call spread) or $60(bull call spread) both expiring on Friday at close. instead of paying $1300 for the stock and selling either call.


----------



## tarbe

Grrrrrr....put a buy order in for AAPL yesterday at $440.

AAPL hit $442...so no buy.

Today, AAPL is up $15.53/share.

Missed that one.....

This is kinda like deer hunting. Sometimes you blink and you miss an opportunity.


----------



## clovis

I have nothing really to say, except that this is the 500th post on this thread.

Other than that, I'm anxiously awaiting a pull back with COP. I wonder if the earnings will be pretty bad tomorrow...


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## Halfway

looking for a decent drop today to ad to some oilers.

PBR took a big hit and overreaction. Looking for a decent rebound.. This is a pure short term spec play and might even snag the dividend in March if the trade holds out.


----------



## tarbe

Halfway said:


> looking for a decent drop today to ad to some oilers.
> 
> PBR took a big hit and overreaction. Looking for a decent rebound.. This is a pure short term spec play and might even snag the dividend in March if the trade holds out.



PBR sure has been hammered this past year. Fundamentals don't look bad....


----------



## clovis

Nice to see the dividend continue uninterrupted with COP.

Thinking of making a move on COP before the ex-dividend date.


----------



## tarbe

clovis said:


> Nice to see the dividend continue uninterrupted with COP.
> 
> Thinking of making a move on COP before the ex-dividend date.



I stuck my little toe in on COP today when it was trading at it's session lows. Bought a little MSFT and WU as well...just kinda putting a stake in the ground. 

Was real tempted on AAPL, but held off. Glad I did....it lost all the day's gains by the close. I'd like to get back in at <$450

My WHZ was all over the place today....up 10 cents, down 13 cents...up and down and up and down. Too close to the ex-div date to mess around selling, but it has been mostly up the last month and I am up overall on it, so I can't complain....yet. Looking forward to my second dividend from this monster.


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## Halfway

tarbe said:


> PBR sure has been hammered this past year. Fundamentals don't look bad....


Exactly.

This is pure spec as I have no desire to carry it long term.

Gonna break this resistance at 1514 S&P today? Looks like DOW has a date with 14015 very soon.


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## clovis

One other thing to like about COP and their dividend is that they pay fast. About 15 days after the date of record, the money will be deposited in your account.

Some of these companies take up to 40 days to pay.

In the big scheme of things, I know it doesn't matter, but I like to get the dividends as fast as possible. Who knows when another buy opportunity will present itself?


----------



## willow_girl

Anyone have any thoughts on ARI?

Sure do like the looks of that dividend!


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## clovis

As for ARI, I personally see a few red flags:

A second IPO in October, 2012 makes me wonder how sound their business might be. Is the IPO a way to keep funding the dividend, or to keep the company afloat?

Even with an 8.9% yield, they've only been paying for 3 years. I'd like to see a longer dividend history.

For the money, I like BPT much better, even though the company received some horrid press based on some information that wasn't even correct...and the writer was shorting the stock at the same time it was being published.


----------



## frogmammy

Unfortunately, MY bull is out grazing in the middle of the field, when he's not asleep under a tree  If it wasn't for the fact that NTRI pays about 8% every quarter, I'd be depressed....I've had it a year now. I guess I'm going to own this FOREVER!!! Fortunately, not everything I've bought stays around this long!

Mon


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## Guest

The dividend is 8% annually. So, you've collected 70 cents per share dividend, while the stock price has dropped $3.00. 
Still, I'm curious as to what promoted you to buy the stock in the first place? Did you think it had reached a bottom and was highly likely to rebound? Do you like the company's products? Did you feel that the valuation of the company was approaching cash reserves? I'm always curious exactly why somebody decides to buy into a company, then hold it. Most people (so far) have ignored that question, or else admit there was no logic involved.


----------



## Guest

Here are 2 examples of what I think is rational trading. I'm posting them now. I expect both to be rocking tomorrow. 
1 Option straddle at 65 on ASEI. Since the February options expire, the contracts will be at very close to actual cash value the rest of the week. So, at this moment, the bid for the 65 straddle(call and put) is 4.60. What that means is that you pay $4.60 for the position, and whether ASEI goes up or down, you make everything away from $65 at the moment you sell or exercise your option contract. SO, if ASEI is at 72, and you sell your call, you will get $7.00 as the return on your $4.60. 
OK, so you may wonder, what if ASEI sits right there til the end of the day Friday? Weoo, you would be able to get whatever the bid is for the contracts, but certainly a loss. SO, suppose you look at the March contract? The ask for the March 65(both call and put) straddle is $5.65 You get an entire month extra time, in case tomorrow is a dud. So, even if there is less than $5.65 move in the stock, there will be the time premium. 
As the evidence of the logicality of this trade I offer 2 observations. Over the past year, the next day earnings moves on ASEI has been $10, $15, $8, and a dud, for an average of $8 which would put you ahead at least $2.35 per share, or $235 per contract. 
Over the 8 days following earnings, the maximum moves have been $10, $21, $8, and $6.
Every one would have paid off, an average of $11, a minimum of $6. vs the cost now of $5.65. That is in cash value, not counting the time value. 

2. The same scenario for FOSL. The March 105 straddle costs $14.80. However the 100/110 position(called a strangle, rather than straddle) costs $10.20. The payoff will be the same minus 40 cents, or $40 per contract. In return for losing the $40, you are putting up $460 less outlay. Sounds like a good deal. 
Over the past year, FOSL has had earnings moves of $20, $50, $23, and $12(which had stretched to $15 within 5 days) So, in each of those cases, a similar strangle would have paid $5, $35, $8, and even. Of course, that is cash value, and there is always some time premium. 
So, theres my logical and sensible trade predictions. We'll be able to tell tomorrow if the payoff is immediate, or if not, we'll know within a few days.


----------



## frogmammy

zong said:


> The dividend is 8% annually. So, you've collected 70 cents per share dividend, while the stock price has dropped $3.00.
> Still, I'm curious as to what promoted you to buy the stock in the first place? Did you think it had reached a bottom and was highly likely to rebound? Do you like the company's products? Did you feel that the valuation of the company was approaching cash reserves? I'm always curious exactly why somebody decides to buy into a company, then hold it. Most people (so far) have ignored that question, or else admit there was no logic involved.


Oh, Zong! This will SO go contrary to how you operate!

Obesity is "hot" right now, so I took a look at "fat" stocks...MED, WW, NTRI and Jenny Craig...Jenny was a no go right off the bat. There was also the exercise segment, but I had no interest at that time. Of all, NTRI looked the best to me, product availability was good, looked like it had "good bones", price was down with room for improvement. Tried the product and it was palatable, off the shelf (as opposed to MED).

And then NTRI goofed around and went down. Held on until "diet season" started and it hasn't moved much, but the season is young. Have enjoyed the 8% I receive every three months....as opposed to the 1% the bank would have paid...and I FULLY expect that the proposed changes in marketing will bring the price up again.

Mon


----------



## clovis

zong said:


> The dividend is 8% annually. So, you've collected 70 cents per share dividend, while the stock price has dropped $3.00.
> Still, I'm curious as to what promoted you to buy the stock in the first place? Did you think it had reached a bottom and was highly likely to rebound? Do you like the company's products? Did you feel that the valuation of the company was approaching cash reserves? I'm always curious exactly why somebody decides to buy into a company, then hold it. Most people (so far) have ignored that question, or else admit there was no logic involved.


I take a long hard look and study any stock before I buy it. I answer all the questions you asked, and then some.

I look at:

Dividend payout history
Sustainability of the dividend
Payout ratio of the dividend
Dividend yeild
Debt the company has
What percentage of the stock is owned by investment funds?
What is the future for the industry as a whole?
How solid is the stock? Is it an old company, or an overnight sensation?
Charts: How has the stock preformed in the past 5, 10 and 20 years
How much has the stock fluctuated in the past? 
Where is the stock in it's 52 week high and low? (I'm looking for bargains)
What is the press saying about this stock? 

There are more questions that I ask before buying any stock, but these come to mind right now.


----------



## clovis

I missed a buying opportunity for COP before the dividend ex-date, and am not sure where to allocate the money I have:

Buy COP and wait until the next ex-date?
Buy KO, before the 2/28 exdate, even though it has a low yield of 2.7%?
Buy ATT, with it's 5% yield, even though I am going to have to wait until March to make the ex-date?

FWIW, I am trying to play catch up on my small retirement fund, and have limited cash to invest. I already own ATT, and like it very much.

Opinions, anyone?


----------



## Michael W. Smith

How did we miss out on HNZ - H J Heinz which is being bought up by Berkshire Hathoway for $72.50 / share?!?

I've looked at it for years - Pittsburgh is a 2 hour drive. What held me back was you couldn't buy the stock direct. If someone would have bought some shares back on December 17, 2009, it closed at $42.43. Holding it for 3 years and a few months, you would now have a stock worth $30.00 per share MORE than what you paid.

Of course, there seems to be suspicion now that there was illegal trading and some of the Wall Street bigwigs heard of the buyout a day or so before the announcement, so they could profit. 

Zong, one of my criteria for buying a stock is to be able to bypass the stockbroker and buy it direct from the company - or a company that handles the buying and selling.

I also prefer to buy stocks that don't have an initial fee to buy in, or charges a fee for reinvesting the dividend. I also like to buy stocks that offer a Direct buy with a ROTH IRA.

All of my stocks are considered - long term. I'm buying them based on my opinion after checking information that they are a good stock to buy and to hold. A good solid stock that will throw out a dividend every quarter. A stock that produces or makes something that many people need or use.

Out of my picks, I've only had a few that didn't work out. Enron for one. Frontier for another. I owned Massey Coal - bought it, watched it skyrocket, and then watched it fall - then watched as it got bought out by Alpha Natural Resources, which has now plummetted.

Enron is of course dead. Frontier is still alive - pays a nice dividend now, but I don't ever see getting even let alone making a profit of it. (It will be a nice company to sell for a loss to help out with taxes some time.) Alpha is still alive - but coal stocks have been hit hard. Luckily I didn't have large amounts invested in any of them.

On the other hand, I've done well with some stocks. Some stocks have thrown off other companies and given me free stock - Marathon Oil through off Marathon Petroleum which has done great. There is at least one other company if not two that through off a company and gave me free stock.

I'm an investor that has evolved. My initial retirement was in a bank CD. Didn't take too long to figure out once interest rates dropped to nothing that the bank was ripping me off. Transferred from the bank and put into an IRA with my insurance company. (At least it is guaranteed to pay a MINIMUM of 3%.)

I then evolved into mutual funds, and joined The Vanguard family.

I've now evolved and have bought individual stocks.

I might just evolve at some other point and try some day trading or flipping. But currently I'm happy to buy and hold.


----------



## clovis

tarbe said:


> I have to admit to having a soft spot for COP. The petrochemical company I retired from this past year started its existence as Conoco Chemical Company.
> 
> I still consider them a sister company. I dealt with them quite a lot when I was working, and I think they are a pretty good outfit.
> 
> I am waiting for a dip to get back in (took some profits this fall). I hope I get a good chance to get back in at a discount!
> 
> 
> Tim


I was napping this week when COP dipped below $57. 

I've been working on another investment deal with real estate this week, but I hate it that I missed COP.


----------



## clovis

Michael W. Smith said:


> How did we miss out on HNZ - H J Heinz which is being bought up by Berkshire Hathoway for $72.50 / share?!?
> 
> I've looked at it for years - Pittsburgh is a 2 hour drive. What held me back was you couldn't buy the stock direct. If someone would have bought some shares back on December 17, 2009, it closed at $42.43. Holding it for 3 years and a few months, you would now have a stock worth $30.00 per share MORE than what you paid.


I was watching HNZ back when it was in the mid-$50's. Looks like I missed out in a big way!!!


----------



## willow_girl

How's everyone faring in the big market run-up this week?

My IRA has increased in value by $700 since the end of January. :bouncy:

Unloaded some LNDC this week for a profit of $89. I haven't had a lot of time to research trades this year, so I've mostly been keeping an eye on it and WOR, buying on dips and selling when the price goes back up.


----------



## clovis

willow_girl said:


> How's everyone faring in the big market run-up this week?
> 
> My IRA has increased in value by $700 since the end of January. :bouncy:
> 
> Unloaded some LNDC this week for a profit of $89. I haven't had a lot of time to research trades this year, so I've mostly been keeping an eye on it and WOR, buying on dips and selling when the price goes back up.


I've seen a huge bump to my account too...but it sure is getting hard to find bargains in the market.


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## frogmammy

Yeah, mine is looking nice so far this year! Not all the dividends have been paid yet (waiting with baited breath!) but I think most will be paid out this month. Check out the pay on CLCT, unbelievable! 

Mon


----------



## clovis

I reinvested some of my recent dividends into KO today.

I certainly like the stock, especially because they've been a solid dividend payer since 1898, but I sure wish the yield was more than 3%.

I probably should have opted to buy a stock with a higher yield, but I like KO for the long term.


----------



## frogmammy

I'm kinda liking robotics, thinking it's the future. Got IRBT, AVAV and MAKO...although MAKO is a touch shaky right now and we need to see what this healthcare mess is going to do. I think if I were going to go for a long hold, I'd go with IRBT....I believe they are bound for a solid future as they have been around for a while, and are becoming very diverse.

Mon


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## Belfrybat

I don't buy individual stocks, but instead use mutual funds. My IRA is with Pax World balanced funds and is doing great. I also have Vanguard Windsor II and Intermediate Corp. bonds (usually in a 50/50 mix -- but since stocks have been skyrocketing it is now 53/47). I don't need to take money out right now but will by mid-summer when some high ticket items come due. So question -- since what goes up usually comes down, would it be a wise idea for me to take $2500.00 out of the Windsor account tomorrow which would balance the mix back to 50/50, or should I gamble and stay put hoping it will go up even more? I'd appreciate any words of wisdom here. 
BTW, I'm 64 which is why my Vanguard mix is a bit more conservative than the traditional 60/40 split.


----------



## willow_girl

Today was a red-letter day for me, as I came home from work to find two of my stocks had sold ... the LNDC I bought on a dip about 3 weeks ago, and the WOR I bought (also on a dip) yesterday. Netted a total of $211 -- w00t!


----------



## clovis

willow_girl said:


> Today was a red-letter day for me, as I came home from work to find two of my stocks had sold ... the LNDC I bought on a dip about 3 weeks ago, and the WOR I bought (also on a dip) yesterday. Netted a total of $211 -- w00t!


Nice!!!!!!


----------



## willow_girl

Umm, not really, as that LNDC I unloaded went up more than 8 percent today ($1.02). If I were still holding it, I'd be up $548. :sob:


----------



## willow_girl

And I'd be up $358 if I'd held on to WOR ... 

Excuse me, I have to go kill myself now. :hysterical:


----------



## clovis

willow_girl said:


> And I'd be up $358 if I'd held on to WOR ...
> 
> Excuse me, I have to go kill myself now. :hysterical:


You know the old sayings:

"The bears get a little, and the bulls get a little, but hogs get slaughtered."

"You can never argue about profit."


----------



## clovis

BTW, I cannot believe this market.

Who would have thunk that the Dow would be at 14,500+?

Maybe Zong?


----------



## clovis

This market is on a crazy bull run.

My account hit another small milestone today, due to the run up in share prices.

I'm a happy camper, at least until the Dow takes a plunge, LOL.


----------



## Halfway

Great time to add small amounts for long, value positions.

Today: T WMT EPD COP


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Great time to sell losers with the run-up in the market.

Back in July of 2010, when I was (and still am) invested with Verizon, they spun off shares of Frontier.

Great deal, right? You keep all the shares of Verizon, and they give you FREE shares of a new company. At that time, my investment was small so I didn't get too many shares.

I got the free shares and saw how great the dividend was - and I thought, let's add to it! So I did. In 2011, I sent in $3000.00 and got 352 shares of Frontier for $8.44 per share. 

Then I watched as the stock dropped, and dropped and dropped. But I thought with the wonderful dividend, it will be fine.

Today, with dividend reinvestments and the free shares, I own over 431 shares. Today, those shares are worth $4.08 / share, meaning I have $1758.00 for my $3000.00 investment.

I'm bailing out. Selling all of the shares and getting out. I figure with the great run up in the stock market, it's time to sell a loser and I'll get a loss for tax purposes for the year.

If I wouldn't have sent in money, I'd still have the free shares, and I could hold onto them to see if they recover.

I probably should have sold before this, but I kept thinking the stock would come back. 

That's one I was wrong on!

Oh well, I guess 1 loser out of 13 or so stock picks isn't too bad.


----------



## clovis

MWS-

Sorry about the loss. BTDT.

If your luck is anything like mine, Frontier will gain another 2 points after you sell it.


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Mmmmm, I doubt it. I would say it will still be around the current price a year from now - currently $4.14.

After a year, if the stock is still around the current price, I may buy it again - it does have a nice dividend. But I highly doubt they can keep the high dividend for another year without slashing the dividend.

No worries, Clovis, the amount I invested was piddly compared to what I've made on other stocks. It will be nice to get a tax break next year.


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## clovis

MWS-

What are you going to invest in next?


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Not sure. I'm waiting on the check to come in and get it cashed before I think of the next investment. It might be to put invest it in something I already own and just add to it. (It's fun to get bigger and bigger dividends -which are just reinvested - I never actually get the money, but it sure is fun to see your dividend get bigger and bigger each quarter!)

The one stock I have in mind pays a 4.5% dividend.


----------



## clovis

Michael W. Smith said:


> t's fun to get bigger and bigger dividends -which are just reinvested -
> 
> The one stock I have in mind pays a 4.5% dividend.


I love seeing those dividends grow too.

Which stock is that? 

COP?


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Hawaii Electric. I'm thinking sometime the wife and I need to go to one of their shareholder meetings. :thumb:

I wonder how much expense you can list on your taxes for going to a shareholder meeting? Airfare, hotel, etc. I'm quite certain it would be a chore to attend their meeting.


----------



## clovis

MWS,

Since you are a fellow dividend investor, what other stocks are you looking at?

I am still studying KRFT, COP, BP, AEP, DUK, NLY, VZ. I'll need to see some pullbacks on some of these before jumping in.

I'd like to strengthen my current positions in T, KO and possibly BPT.


----------



## okiemom

did the stock snafu with the AP highjacking touch you?? It would have been a potentially sweet time to jump into the market. Timing would have had to be amazing.


----------



## Bret

I had and still have six open buy orders at prices too good to be true, to add to positions, if there was a market pullback. Nothing got picked up.


----------



## okiemom

did anyone get a deal when the ap was hacked and the market free fell for min? Wow a killing could have been made and they say it could happen again. Are there not stop gaps to prevent chaos?


----------



## clovis

Picked up a few shares of BP today.

Despite the on going liability they face, the dividend is nice.


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Jackpot and double jackpot!

I have owned shares in Aqua America (WTR) since October of 2009.

They just announced they are increasing the dividend by 9% from .175/share to .19/share. Annual dividend of .76/share - a nice yield of 2.2%.

As if that wasn't enough, the company has also decided to do a 5 for 4 stock split in September! 

Too bad I didn't invest more originally - I had sent in $2000.00 back in Ocotober of 2009, and bought 119.229302 shares at $16.7744 each. It closed today at $31.85 making my $2000.00 investment worth $3797.45 today. During that time, all dividends have been reinvested, making it grow MORE than that. Ya gotta love those reinvested dividends!!!!

Who said utility stocks were boring?


----------



## clovis

WTG, MWS!!!!!!

Nice!!!!!


----------



## clovis

I picked up a few more shares of T today. Nice div yield. I was able to pick it up on a small pull back this morning.


----------



## clovis

Is anyone still playing the market?


----------



## okiemom

today is a nice dip for long dividend positions


----------



## tarbe

I am mostly in dividend payers that are at low p/e ratios already, so I am sitting tight. Not interested in selling any at the current prices.

On paper, I "lost" $30k today though....makes you pause for a moment! 

Now, if oil goes down to $70, I will probably start freaking out!

Tim


----------



## clovis

okiemom said:


> today is a nice dip for long dividend positions


You are correct. I like these prices/valuations much better than I did a month ago!!!

Are you going to pick up anything while the market is down?


----------



## clovis

tarbe said:


> I am mostly in dividend payers that are at low p/e ratios already, so I am sitting tight. Not interested in selling any at the current prices.
> 
> On paper, I "lost" $30k today though....makes you pause for a moment!
> 
> Now, if oil goes down to $70, I will probably start freaking out!
> 
> Tim


I totally agree. No sense selling...I am in this for the long haul, and as long as they keep paying the dividends and manage the company well, I am a happy camper.


----------



## clovis

Does anyone own or follow KRFT?

I like it, and have been following it for a couple of years. I like it at $52, but I like it even more at $50. At $50, the yield should be 4%. 

Thoughts, anyone?


----------



## okiemom

I like kraft and it spin off company. I have always like the consumables. kraft has a long history and should do well long term like PG. not quite sure why there was a spin off savory and sweet but we shall see where it is going. 

I love sales and seeing what is getting beat up is interesting and every dividend % point is a huge plus. I am hoping by the time I retire the dividend will be a lower tax still. 

anyone getting back into gold?? metals are hard hit and may be a good by for a small initial investment? we are also looking at some of the mining. that will be a very long position with possible deeper hits. as is diversified shipping.


----------



## clovis

I like KRFT too, but I'm not too fond of their spin off, MDLZ, at least at the current time.

I feel that the yield is to low, which is currently at 1.8%. And a P/E of 18.38 is just a little too high for a stock that doesn't have a proven track history when considering dividend payments.


----------



## willow_girl

I've really been neglecting my investments this year, although sometimes that pays off (more on that in a moment). 

I finally DID manage to dump my DLTR, which went down right after I bought it last year. At one point, I was down by something like $1,500!  But it clambered back out of the hole, and I unloaded it for a $109 profit earlier this month.

The last stock I bought, back in March -- BOOM -- also went down right after I purchased it. I hadn't logged on to my portfolio for a week or so, so imagine my surprise when I opened it today and found I was up $160! I sold and cleared $152 after fees, plus a $12 dividend which was paid out yesterday. Good timing all around, thanks to sheer luck!!


----------



## willow_girl

Bought 200 shares of WOR on 3/13 for $28.64.
Sold it the next day for $29.24.
It hit $36.10 on May 22. 
I would have made $1492 if I'd hung on. :cry

Sometimes it's best not to look ... ound:

Edited to add: Got bitten by the bug again ... took a position in AXL.


----------



## okiemom

there is nothing much to take position in just now. I like long hauls and dividends. oneok, Oklahoma gas company looked good. better a few days ago, but better than nothing. the market looks like it is at capacity and there needs to be a new thing.... so waiting.....


----------



## willow_girl

Yes I was getting frustrated too for the same reason ... AXL was on my long-term watch list. It was off 5 percent today ... I tried to catch the falling knife! Hope I got it at the bottom ... it came up a few cents and I ended the day up $8 ($18 if you count the trading fee). We will see what happens tomorrow! :teehee:


----------



## willow_girl

GONE!!! That was a really quick round trip (the kind I like!). Picked up $121 after fees ... :bouncy:
Now I'm sorry I set a sell; I'm off this morning and could have watched it for awhile. Dang it! :rant:


----------



## tarbe

I really don't understand NFLX.

P/E ratio of over 600? Really?? And not even a kiss (dividend) to go along with that expensive stock?

Why are people willing to pay so much for this stock? The fundamentals just don't seem to support the high price.

Maybe if they were making $30/share in earnings. But their TTM earnings are something like 41 cents per share.

What gives?


----------



## clovis

I don't know a thing about NFLX, but I hear what you are saying, Tarbe.

Some of these stocks, well, they do make you wonder, don't they?????


----------



## tarbe

clovis said:


> I don't know a thing about NFLX, but I hear what you are saying, Tarbe.
> 
> Some of these stocks, well, they do make you wonder, don't they?????


I guess it is just pure speculation.

I cannot get myself to play the pure speculation game. I want to see an earnings level that yields a reasonable P/E ratio for the sector and I want a stable to increasing dividend to soften the pains of pull-backs.

Amazon.com is another great example of the lunacy. TTM earnings are -19 cents per share, yet the stock is up 18% over the same period. People are paying over $300 per share for a company that is losing money...and has lost more money in its existence than it has ever made (if you sum up all annual profits/losses).

It isn't like the book value of Amazon is able to justify the $138bn market capitalization.

I guess this explains why I cannot run with the bulls....I do not understand them!


----------



## clovis

Tarbe,

Do you still hold EXC?

What is your two cents on the stock? 

I bought it sometime ago, before the div cut, and I am none too happy about that.

What do you think of EXC?


----------



## tarbe

clovis said:


> Tarbe,
> 
> Do you still hold EXC?
> 
> What is your two cents on the stock?
> 
> I bought it sometime ago, before the div cut, and I am none too happy about that.
> 
> What do you think of EXC?


EXC turned into nothing more that a short-term play for me.

I bought and sold several times last year, during that volatile period in December, always dumping it after a quick 3-5% pop.

I don't think I've owned any since the first of the year.

I have looked into it several times since the dividend cut. Just can't get myself to jump in again. 

At one time I had hoped to make it a core long-term holding. It took a huge nose-dive (fortunately while I was not holding it) and I got gun-shy.

There are people bullish and bearish on EXC (like most everything else I guess). Reading up on it, the bears seem to be making a better case...so being a chicken, I stayed out.


Tim


----------



## clovis

Tim,

Thanks for the input.

I bought EXC as a long term hold because it was a fantastic dividend payer. 

I'm still a little upset. I think the insiders and the big boys in the market knew that the div cut was coming long before the average investor knew what hit them.

The dividends have given me some downside protection, but I am still down. I should have sold it all when EXC worked its way back to $37, but I hesitated, and it dropped like a rock again.


----------



## okiemom

do any of you short stocks?? I can see Netflix and apple being good options. I cant imagine doing it but I am fascinated on how others make a killing on it. way to scary for me. 

I am fascinated with how the likes of carl ichan can swing stocks by just making a comment about shorting a stock like the herbal life deal.


----------



## clovis

okiemom said:


> do any of you short stocks?? I can see Netflix and apple being good options. I cant imagine doing it but I am fascinated on how others make a killing on it. way to scary for me.
> 
> I am fascinated with how the likes of carl ichan can swing stocks by just making a comment about shorting a stock like the herbal life deal.


I don't short stocks either.

You have to have a margin account to short stocks, which, in essence, is like gambling and using a credit card to finance the risk.

Also remember that if you short a stock, and it goes ex-dividend, guess who gets to pay that dividend? The short seller does!!!!!

I don't borrow money to invest (or for anything), and shorting is far too risky for me!!!!


----------



## Steve in PA

Just found this thread. I'll be following it.

I have some cash sitting in my account. I had some JPM preferred shares that were paying 7% but they bought them back. I made a decent amount, but now I have cash that's just sitting paying nothing.

I'm invested mainly in preferreds and closed-end mutual funds. I don't have the time to get too involved and I like dividends. Right now my two biggest holdings are EAD and EOD. I bought them several years ago and I've almost made my money back in dividends.


----------



## tarbe

Steve in PA said:


> Just found this thread. I'll be following it.
> 
> I have some cash sitting in my account. I had some JPM preferred shares that were paying 7% but they bought them back. I made a decent amount, but now I have cash that's just sitting paying nothing.
> 
> I'm invested mainly in preferreds and closed-end mutual funds. I don't have the time to get too involved and I like dividends. Right now my two biggest holdings are EAD and EOD. I bought them several years ago and I've almost made my money back in dividends.


Here's where I get myself in trouble.....

EOD and EAD are both near their 2 year lows...so I'd be tempted to put some of that JPM money there. They are proven long-term performers for you.

The trouble is, if that gets you too heavily weighted into two instruments, in your overall portfolio.

I have been guilty of buying as the knife falls, in order to get my average purchase price down, when I felt like a disciplined approach would work longer-term (ie, I don't panic and sell at a loss, only to see a recovery after I sell). This is much easier to pull off when the shares/units you are buying throw off a good dividend/distribution.

With the nice dividends in those two you mentioned, it will be much easier to stomach no capital appreciation. But given they are at two year lows....you might be able to get both (oink, oink!).

I am with the others on short-selling. I am sure lots of folks make money on it, just not me. I am not "sophisticated" enough to play in that realm. Maybe if I became more educated about the risks/rewards. Just have not had the desire. Plus, I know my uber-conservative wife would freak-out at the thought!


Tim


----------



## clovis

I picked up some more shares of BP today.

That stock got hammered after missing earnings.

I suspect that BP will continued to get hammered in the short term, especially since they still have the gulf liabilities ahead of them. I'll pick up more shares when I get some money saved up...and if it falls again.

Anyone else hold or like BP?


----------



## fordy

clovis said:


> I picked up some more shares of BP today.
> 
> That stock got hammered after missing earnings.
> 
> I suspect that BP will continued to get hammered in the short term, especially since they still have the gulf liabilities ahead of them. I'll pick up more shares when I get some money saved up...and if it falls again.
> 
> Anyone else hold or like BP?


..................Clovis , Is there a stock index fund made up of strictly blue chip energy companies , Exxon , Chevron , BP , etc . ? Would you consider investing in a vehicle like that ? , fordy


----------



## tarbe

re: BP

The fund for paying off spill claims is almost depleted. BP announced today that further payments would come straight out of earnings. Spooked the market (like it takes much to do that!).

I am considering moving some money into RDS-B. Similar dividend yield, without the known liability?? RDS-B has pulled back some recently, as well....

Heck, I don't know! I never would have guessed FB would have popped like it did!


----------



## tarbe

Speaking of pull-backs...did you see what happened to the potash producers today? Yikes!

Looks like one of the players is going to mess up the market pricing...


----------



## clovis

fordy said:


> ..................Clovis , Is there a stock index fund made up of strictly blue chip energy companies , Exxon , Chevron , BP , etc . ? Would you consider investing in a vehicle like that ? , fordy


I don't know if there is, but I would consider investing in a fund like that.

Of course, I would like to see a chart of their long term growth, know their fee structures, understand the fund's cost of operating, etc., before ever investing the first dime...

FWIW, I once looked at a fund that was based supposedly on high dividend payers. But, when you did the math, everyone in the fund was getting rich, except for the investor!!!! High fees, fuzzy math on the annual return, and a confusing pay out to the investor...no thanks!!!!

Just be sure you *fully understand* exactly what you are buying before you buy it.

(It amazes me that so many people invest in something, and they can't even tell you what it is or what it does!)


----------



## clovis

tarbe said:


> re: BP
> 
> The fund for paying off spill claims is almost depleted. BP announced today that further payments would come straight out of earnings. Spooked the market (like it takes much to do that!).
> 
> I am considering moving some money into RDS-B. Similar dividend yield, without the known liability?? RDS-B has pulled back some recently, as well....


I have a few shares of RDS-A.

Did you know that those jokers take 15% of the dividend, right off the top, for Dutch tax?

When the RDS-A dividend is paid to my Scottrade account, the dividend goes in, and the next line above it shows the 15% automatically taken out!!!!

No one ever explained this to me before I bought it.

If you buy enough shares of RDS-A, I _think_ you can opt for more shares of the stock instead of taking the cash dividend, which _may_ keep you from having the 15% taken away in tax.

Sure, if you itemize on your taxes, I understand that you can claim the foreign tax as a deduction...but who wants that additional headache?


----------



## tarbe

Really glad I did not pull the trigger on RDS-B yet!

Quarterly earnings fell 57%...stock down over 5% today!


----------



## Steve in PA

tarbe said:


> Heck, I don't know! I never would have guessed FB would have popped like it did!


I've seen the Facebook story before. It was called AOL. Exactly the same hype and everything. I'd not be caught with money in there long term.

FB is already fizzling out with the younger crowd and being replaced by Vine. The average FB user age is creeping up making it even more uncool for the younger users.


----------



## clovis

I am thinking about picking up a few more shares of BP tomorrow.

Does anyone have thoughts on this dividend paying stock?

What are your thoughts on the liabilities they still face in the Gulf?


----------



## Blue Ridge

clovis said:


> I don't know if there is, but I would consider investing in a fund like that.
> 
> Of course, I would like to see a chart of their long term growth, know their fee structures, understand the fund's cost of operating, etc., before ever investing the first dime...
> 
> FWIW, I once looked at a fund that was based supposedly on high dividend payers. But, when you did the math, everyone in the fund was getting rich, except for the investor!!!! High fees, fuzzy math on the annual return, and a confusing pay out to the investor...no thanks!!!!
> 
> Just be sure you *fully understand* exactly what you are buying before you buy it.
> 
> (It amazes me that so many people invest in something, and they can't even tell you what it is or what it does!)


Here's a link to start your Energy ETF search. As always do detailed research.

http://www.thestreet.com/topic/19461/etf-top-ranked-energy-natural-resources.html

I used to hold some VDE, back in the $4 a gallon era. It was good then, but have since left this sector.

Pharma and Health are great sectors these days.


----------



## clovis

Blue Ridge said:


> Here's a link to start your Energy ETF search. As always do detailed research.
> 
> http://www.thestreet.com/topic/19461/etf-top-ranked-energy-natural-resources.html
> 
> I used to hold some VDE, back in the $4 a gallon era. It was good then, but have since left this sector.
> 
> Pharma and Health are great sectors these days.


Thanks!!!

I have some shares of LLY and GSK. I love the dividends!!!! I am also worried about patent cliffs!


----------



## clovis

clovis said:


> I am thinking about picking up a few more shares of BP tomorrow.
> 
> Does anyone have thoughts on this dividend paying stock?
> 
> What are your thoughts on the liabilities they still face in the Gulf?


G-U-L-P.

For better or worse, I bought some more shares of BP today.

The dividends look nice...but as soon as I executed the order, I got a sick feeling about BP and their outstanding liabilities with the Deepwater Gulf mess.


----------



## Steve in PA

Since we're talking about energy ETF's I have been on the edge of buying into some MLP ETf's . Specifically AMLP (Yield 5%, .85% expense)


----------



## logbuilder

I've been into ETP for just over a year. I got into it for the div yield of 8% based on what I bought it for. I'm pleasingly surprised that it is also up 18% from my purchase price. Normally I would take those profits off the table but I am in it for the dividends.
*
Business Summary*
Energy Transfer Partners, L.P. engages in the natural gas midstream, and intrastate transportation and storage businesses in the United States. The companyâs Midstream segment gathers, compresses, treats, blends, processes, and markets natural gas in various basins and shales in Texas, New Mexico, West Virginia, and Louisiana. This segment owns and operates approximately 6,700 miles of natural gas gathering pipelines. Its Intrastate Transportation and Storage segment transports natural gas from various natural gas producing areas, as well as through its ET fuel system and HPL system. This segment has approximately 7,800 miles of natural gas transportation pipelines and 3 natural gas storage facilities in Texas. The companyâs Interstate Transportation and Storage segment provides natural gas transportation and storage services; owns and operates approximately 12,600 miles of interstate natural gas pipeline; and has interests various natural gas pipelines. The companyâs Natural Gas Liquid (NGL) Transportation and Services segment transports mixed NGLs and other hydrocarbons; stores mixed NGLs, NGL products, and petrochemical products; and separates mixed NGL streams into purity products. This segment owns and operates approximately 300 miles of NGL pipelines; and has interests in various NGL pipelines, as well as NGL storage facilities with aggregate storage capacity of approximately 47 million barrels. Its Investment in Sunoco Logistics segment, through its interests in Sunoco Logistics Partners L.P., engages in the operation of crude oil pipelines, crude oil acquisition and marketing, and transfer of refined products to or from storage or transportation systems to other transportation systems, as well as transportation of refined products from refineries to markets. The companyâs Retail Marketing segment sells gasoline and middle distillates at retail; and operates convenience stores. Energy Transfer Partners, L.P. was founded in 2002 and is based in Dallas, Texas.


----------



## tarbe

ETP is one of the stocks I had on my list a year ago when I was getting ready to retire.

I never did jump in...and of course, I regret that!


----------



## logbuilder

I'm new to this thread but not new to HST. Hello all.

Along the energy lines, I have another stock in my portfolio that I like. SBR. My dad turned me onto this one 20 years ago. I didn't have any money to invest so I stayed out of it until about 5 years ago. My dad passed on but I have this stock somewhat in memory of him. It yeilds 7% however my cost basis is lower so my return is better. It is volatile so you have to have a strong stomach. It is a long term play in my book. It somewhat follows the price of crude. Since it is a royalty trust, it has some details that have to be dealt with at tax time but not that difficult.


----------



## tarbe

logbuilder said:


> It is volatile so you have to have a strong stomach.



Interesting....Yahoo finance shows it having a beta of 0.77.


----------



## logbuilder

Things are relative. For a dividend (actually royalties) stock that you want to hold onto for a long time, the fluctuations can temp some to get out at the most inopportune time unless you have the right mindset.


----------



## clovis

logbuilder said:


> I'm new to this thread but not new to HST. Hello all.
> 
> Along the energy lines, I have another stock in my portfolio that I like. SBR. My dad turned me onto this one 20 years ago. I didn't have any money to invest so I stayed out of it until about 5 years ago. My dad passed on but I have this stock somewhat in memory of him. It yeilds 7% however my cost basis is lower so my return is better. It is volatile so you have to have a strong stomach. It is a long term play in my book. It somewhat follows the price of crude. Since it is a royalty trust, it has some details that have to be dealt with at tax time but not that difficult.


What is the life span left on this royalty trust?


----------



## clovis

Here is a question for you all...

*What is your favorite stock, and why?*

Let's say that you had to sell all of your holdings except for one company's stock. 

Which one do you keep, and why?


----------



## tarbe

clovis said:


> Here is a question for you all...
> 
> *What is your favorite stock, and why?*
> 
> Let's say that you had to sell all of your holdings except for one company's stock.
> 
> Which one do you keep, and why?


Well, _today_ it has to be WHZ because they announced this quarter's distribution and I will be getting $59,800 this go-round.

It is a royalty trust and will expire around 2021. 

At the current quarter's dividend rate, the yield at today's close is about 21%. My yield, considering my average cost, is about 19%.

If oil stays near $100, this ticker is going to do me real well. 

Great thing is the stock is trading at a very low PE right now. With the general market rising like it has, many folks go chasing capital appreciation and dump boring dividend payers....so WHZ got beat down and is on sale, even with today's dividend announcement induced 2.8% increase.

I am not saying this is a buy and hold forever stock....no royalty trust is. But I look forward to this baby making me a lot of money over the next few years.


Tim


----------



## logbuilder

clovis said:


> What is the life span left on this royalty trust?


*SBR* 

The estimated net proved reserves, as of January 1, 2013, attributable to the Trust from the properties appraised are approximately 6.5 million barrels of oil and 41.7 billion cubic feet of gas with a future net value of approximately $570,344,000 with a discounted value at 10% of $250,114,000 with the estimated quantities of this year's reserve estimate of 6.5 million barrels of oil and 41.7 billion cubic feet of gas remaining, it could be estimated that the Trust still has a life span of 9 to 10 years.


----------



## clovis

tarbe said:


> Well, _today_ it has to be WHZ because they announced this quarter's distribution and I will be getting $59,800 this go-round.
> 
> It is a royalty trust and will expire around 2021.
> 
> At the current quarter's dividend rate, the yield at today's close is about 21%. My yield, considering my average cost, is about 19%.
> 
> If oil stays near $100, this ticker is going to do me real well.
> 
> Great thing is the stock is trading at a very low PE right now. With the general market rising like it has, many folks go chasing capital appreciation and dump boring dividend payers....so WHZ got beat down and is on sale, even with today's dividend announcement induced 2.8% increase.
> 
> I am not saying this is a buy and hold forever stock....no royalty trust is. But I look forward to this baby making me a lot of money over the next few years.
> 
> 
> Tim


I can see why you like the stock...but what is funny is that WHZ currently is my least favorite stock, and it would be the first of my holdings that I would sell.

I bought WHZ at a price that was too high. I have felt like a total moron many times for buying it. I have often considered dumping the shares that I own and take the licking that I have coming on my lost investment.

You do make a strong argument for WHZ, especially considering the distributions and the P/E. Maybe I should look to pick up additional shares instead of looking for a decent price to sell.

Of course, I own a mere pittance compared to your holdings.


----------



## clovis

Thanks, logbuilder!


----------



## tarbe

Clovis

If you bought in at say, $19, the current dividend yield (this quarter x 4 / purchase price) is 15.5%. So even if the stock never went back above $14, you'd be back above water in about 7 quarters (sooner if you dividend reinvest).

Given the history of equities in general, I think it will recover much of the ground lost over the last 6 months, and you will find yourself well compensated for your patience.

That of course is the nice thing about fat dividends...they give you the stomach to sit tight during the turbulent times...times when most of us would panic and dump at a loss. Worst case, you get back above water in less than 2 years with drip.

I have a few shares of WHZ that I bought at 19. I also have some I bought at 12.80. I would not consider selling any today at anything less than 17. It would be like eating the goose that lays the golden egg.


----------



## clovis

Very, very good point, Tim.

I am in @ $20 a share. I know...I know...a stupid move on my part. I was chasing yield, and the stock looked like it would go to $25.

I haven't purchased any more WHZ with those dividends, but I have rolled those distributions into LLY, KO, GSK, BP, etc. 

Thank you for shedding a new light on WHZ. Again, I own a mere pittance, but at least I might not hate this stock like I once did!!! If nothing else, I learned a valuable lesson about chasing yield!


----------



## logbuilder

I'm a firm believer in the risk return relationship. When it comes to income stocks (dividends, royalty), I draw the line at 10% return. Anything higher I think carries too much risk. If the risk was low, the price would appreciate and the return would adjust accordingly. That's just my simplistic way of looking at things. Sure, there are exceptions but that requires speculation or some sort of special insight into the industry and how the specific stock will outperform. Speculation I don't do and special insight I don't have.


----------



## tarbe

logbuilder said:


> I'm a firm believer in the risk return relationship. When it comes to income stocks (dividends, royalty), I draw the line at 10% return. Anything higher I think carries too much risk. If the risk was low, the price would appreciate and the return would adjust accordingly. That's just my simplistic way of looking at things. Sure, there are exceptions but that requires speculation or some sort of special insight into the industry and how the specific stock will outperform. Speculation I don't do and special insight I don't have.


Very true, in the long run! In the short-term, we often have some very out-of-sync situations...due mostly to fear and greed. Look at Apple over the last year. Was $705 correct, or $385? Probably neither!

Everyone does well to understand their own risk tolerance...and their areas of expertise. Then invest accordingly.

Sometimes we get a little singed as we develop these understandings. Sometimes we get fried! :flame:

Part of my strategy with WHZ is predicated on the belief that given our global tensions, crude will spend more time above $90 than below, during the next two years. If this ends up being true, then my returns (based on my average cost) should be quite good.

If my strategy fails, I see my worst case being break-even...again, based on my average entry price. This also assumes I do no further buying. 

Today's price is below my average entry price, yet I am at break-even now due to dividends (break-even relative to cost, not cost plus an assumed return). End of August is only my third quarterly distribution.


Tim


----------



## logbuilder

For those into WHZ, looking at the performance of it's older brother WHX might be useful. Look at the 2yr chart and look at old news. It might lead to some additional insight.


----------



## logbuilder

tarbe,

Along the lines of our risk discussion, here is an article that you might find interesting.

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/07/26/shallow-risk-and-deep-risk-are-no-walk-in-the-woods/

In the above article, the source of the info is William Bernstein. He talks about 'deep risk' and 'shallow risk'.

In the next link, a forum is discussing the above article. Good discussion. Then, William Bernstein enters the thread and answers questions and clarifies.

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=120512&p=1761845

I considered it well worth my time.


----------



## tarbe

logbuilder said:


> For those into WHZ, looking at the performance of it's older brother WHX might be useful. Look at the 2yr chart and look at old news. It might lead to some additional insight.


WHX is at the end of life spiral. Due to expire in about 2 years. When someone wrote an article about the looming expiration last year, it dropped like a rock! Truth is, everyone had access to this information...it was in every financial disclosure by Whiting. Many folks just never bothered to read! People were paying essentially twice what the stuff was really worth, just before the drop. I think the panic over WHX affected WHZ, without good reason.

Additionally, WHX has been grossly over-valued of late.

It probably should be at about $3.50/share, base on the expected payments yet to be made. But it has been way above that at times, recently.

Makes for some pretty serious volatility.


----------



## logbuilder

Tim,

I agree that many folks don't understand the details of termination on some of these royalty stocks. The big misunderstanding is that when it terminates, the price is now zero unless there are some underlying assets that may be sold. With SBR, I look at reserves when the reports come out. I suspect with WHZ you are looking at the percent of actual production to the max production over life. I suspect most people look at neither.


----------



## tarbe

logbuilder said:


> Tim,
> 
> I agree that many folks don't understand the details of termination on some of these royalty stocks. The big misunderstanding is that when it terminates, the price is now zero unless there are some underlying assets that may be sold. With SBR, I look at reserves when the reports come out. I suspect with WHZ you are looking at the percent of actual production to the max production over life. I suspect most people look at neither.



I think you are correct!

WHX was up over 9% today! :hammer:

I actually thought about violating one of my "rules" and going ahead and shorting WHX...:ashamed: Glad I did not! I'd be sweating....


----------



## logbuilder

I must admit that I don't use options. My general impression is that options are just like gambling. Almost like the roulette wheel. I don't fault anyone for using them but they are not for me. I'm especially leery of naked shorts. If it goes the wrong way, it could be a double whammy.


----------



## Steve in PA

Looking at the latest 10Q for WHZ, there's a lot not to like. I think they are pumping like crazy having already distributed 23% of the guaranteed assets while having cut the dividend consistently since inception.

Having said that, it reminds me of a REIT that I owned during the housing bubble. NFI, Novastar Financial, made me a lot of money with dividends. Everyone knew it was a legal version of 3-card monte but as long as you weren't holding it when the music stopped you were fine.

I sold early, thankfully. I'm rolling some of my JPMpW earnings into WHZ so it's still the house's money


----------



## tarbe

Steve in PA said:


> while having cut the dividend consistently since inception.


It is not a dividend. It is a distribution. And by law, it is 90% of the profit after expenses.

So they don't "cut" it like a company can arbitrarily cut a dividend. It goes up and down with the profitability of the assets.

It went up ~17% this quarter, vs last quarter, due mostly to rising oil prices.


Tim


----------



## Steve in PA

I misspoke (typed) terminology. I'm familiar with the distribution from REITs. I wasn't implying that WHZ is doing anything illegal.

What I don't like is that the distribution has gone: .8943-.7606-.6508-.6319-.7393 while pumping out 23% of the guaranteed asset in such a short time. Seems a more sensible approach would be to pump enough to keep a stable distribution during a time when energy prices are in decline.

I'm not knocking it and appreciate you sharing it. I'm just having trouble valuing the underlying asset.


----------



## clovis

Did anyone see LLY today?

The stock closed up $1.40, but was trading up $2.50 during the day.

LLY is probably my favorite stock that I own. They keep pumping out those dividends, quarter after quarter. 

I've been watching LLY long enough to know that it will fall back, but it was a nice perk to see the stock trading so high.


----------



## logbuilder

tarbe said:


> ... Look at Apple over the last year. Was $705 correct, or $385? Probably neither!
> 
> Everyone does well to understand their own risk tolerance...and their areas of expertise. Then invest accordingly.


Using your quote as a springboard. In the following article and associated video, there is a discussion about Apple's worth and the influence in price by big players. I post this not as anything particular about Apple. Rather, during the interview, there is some very sage advice given to investors regarding trading on the advice of 'gurus'.


http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/ignore-apple-gurus-think-yourself-hoenig-155109559.html


----------



## clovis

Does anyone like KRFT?

I think that I'd like to be in this stock in the high $40's. This price is getting closer. Let's hope that I'll have some cash when/if it hits my buy price.


----------



## clovis

Where do you all find news and information about stocks that you are thinking about buying?

T got hit today, down 51 cents. I'd like to buy some more shares, but I don't know where to find news about the stock. I don't want to buy it tomorrow if there was bad news announced today.

Thoughts, anyone?


----------



## logbuilder

clovis said:


> Where do you all find news and information about stocks that you are thinking about buying?


I use yahoo finance a lot. For news and quotes, it is pretty good. On TV, I like CNBC while the market is open.

When it comes time to place order, I review real time info at my broker site.


----------



## Steve in PA

I use yahoo finance as well, Google to a lesser extent, then when I'm almost ready for acting I'll loo at the news tab of scottrade.


----------



## Bret

clovis said:


> Does anyone like KRFT?
> 
> I think that I'd like to be in this stock in the high $40's. This price is getting closer. Let's hope that I'll have some cash when/if it hits my buy price.


I need to like the company first. Then I look at the stock.

I liked Kraft because when I was little they sponsored TV specials that I liked. The name still makes me feel good. So good that I faced down Warren Buffet on this one.

I opened an on-line account to manage an IRA but first opened a taxable account to park a tiny savings account amount that was going nowhere. I bought a thousand dollars worth of Kraft to practice using the new account in February 2008. About all that there was in this account. I really went to school with it and watched it dissolve and morf over the years with spinoffs etc.

It did recover and now there is some KRFT and some MDLX. It made me look smarter than I am. The little dividends are bigger than the interest additions would have been. 

Thank you Kraft and thank you Charlie Brown or Rodolf or whatever. I don't remember. I did remember Kraft.


----------



## clovis

Thanks, Bret.

I've been following KRFT since '09, but hadn't made a move on the stock. It literally was on my "next buy" list, and the stock went to $58!

Of course, I like KRFT for it's nice dividend. I think it is a solid company that is well positioned in the marketplace.

I'd like to be in KRFT at a 4% yield or better. Since the point that the public learned that Warren sold his position, I think the stock has lost it's steam. I'd love another pull back on KRFT!!!


----------



## Halfway

CAG is a nice complement to KRFT in a diversified portfolio.

The KRFT dividend is a nice bit of income as well.


----------



## okiemom

do you think there will be a dip come oct 1 with the budget and new chairman? how do you think the market will act for the next 6 months?


----------



## logbuilder

I can't predict anything. My crystal ball is not working.

However, my feelings are that it is going to get real bumpy between now and the end of the year. There will be all kinds of political wranglings about debt ceiling, budget and obama care. This will introduce much uncertainty which will increase volatility.

With the SPY up 18.5% for the year and QQQ up 18%, I'm thinking it is time to take those off the table. Might miss out on some gains but I think the risk is just getting too high.

Others' thoughts?


----------



## fordy

okiemom said:


> do you think there will be a dip come oct 1 with the budget and new chairman? how do you think the market will act for the next 6 months?


...................The fed has announced it will continue buying bonds each month for a while yet ! This should help stabilize the bond market , don't know what the debt limit fight will do . , fordy


----------



## clovis

My crystal ball isn't working either, but we could see a drop.

I was surprised to see the Dow surge today.


----------



## clovis

I am enjoying this recent run up in prices.

I am now just $85 short of the goal I set for my account balance to be in December of this year. At the rate we've been going, I won't need to add another dime, LOL.

It won't take much time for it to fall, so I better get to sending in some more cash.


----------



## Bret

Faster Clovis.


----------



## okiemom

And the Market rises on Gov't shutdown?!......


----------



## Steve in PA

okiemom said:


> And the Market rises on Gov't shutdown?!......


The government "shuts down" at least once a week. It's called the weekend. This isn't a big deal yet except to the talking heads on TV.

I suspect that it's going up today because it's a new quarter and funds need to allocate capital.

If it becomes a protracted shutdown, longer than a holiday weekend, then we may see some market fallout. If that happens I'm looking a a few stocks such as T that will have really fat dividend yields.


----------



## clovis

I just bought a small order of KRFT.

The company raised their dividend to 52.5 cents a share. 

I would have liked to had the shares a bit cheaper, but a 4% yield works for me.


----------



## clovis

I forgot to mention that I'll need all of you to step up your purchases of Crystal Light, Oscar Meyer bacon, Miracle Whip and Maxwell House coffee. 

LOL.


----------



## clovis

We don't have cable or Dish TV, so I had been watching Cramer every night on CBNC's website. They were posting the entire show, but in segments. It was nice to be able to watch the segments I wanted without having to listen to some stupid CEO orate about how great his company's future looked.

Seems that as of October 1, they are only uploading the partial show.

Personally, I like Cramer, and what he has to say about investing and the markets. I don't follow his picks, and don't buy and sell on his every command. I do like gleaning what I can from what he says about certain stocks.

For instance, I don't own any BMY, and have no plans to buy it. It is nice to listen to what he likes about BMY, and use the same info as a litmus test against the other drug stocks I do own or like. BMY might have a great pipeline. Do the two other drug stocks I own have a good pipeline?

At any rate, I'm not sure what to do with an extra 30-40 minutes every night, now that CNBC is only showing the opening bit and interviews with the CEO of Donuts, Inc., and how bright the doughnut industry is, and their future growth in China. LOL.


----------



## Bret

It's like watching the weather report only not as interesting.


----------



## Bret

Deleted by Bret to check for accounting regularity.


----------



## Bret

Bret said:


> Deleted by Bret to check for accounting regularity.


 Follow up, shorter version. I added GE to an IRA too early in the recession. It is hopefully coming around.


----------



## clovis

I still hold a small dabble of WHZ.

It is slowly edging to $14 a share. I am in @ $20. If it ever makes $17, there will promptly be a sell order placed.


----------



## Bret

clovis said:


> I forgot to mention that I'll need all of you to step up your purchases of Crystal Light, Oscar Meyer bacon, Miracle Whip and Maxwell House coffee.
> 
> LOL.


It's time to make KRAFT Carmel Apples.


----------



## clovis

Bret said:


> It's time to make KRAFT Carmel Apples.


Bret,

While you are at it, make sure you pick up a few jars of Miracle Whip and a case of Chicken in a Biskit crackers.


----------



## clovis

Anyone own or follow MCD?

Right now, it is boasting a 3.4% yield. I'd like to pick up some shares closer to $90, but at $94, it looks tempting.


----------



## Bret

clovis said:


> Bret,
> 
> While you are at it, make sure you pick up a few jars of Miracle Whip and a case of Chicken in a Biskit crackers.


 As a kid, I really liked those too. Forgot about them.


----------



## clovis

I am waiting for the next market pull back.

What stocks are you watching?


----------



## Steve in PA

clovis said:


> I am waiting for the next market pull back.
> 
> What stocks are you watching?


Kicking myself for not pulling the trigger on T


----------



## clovis

Me too, Steve.

I was sitting back and lollygagging around waiting for a BIG drop in the market when the jokers in Washington, DC were playing games.

I've been following T since 2009, and often, the stock pulls back to a good buying point after a run up.


----------



## clovis

Did you all see the $2 spike in BP today?

I hope it falls back...I'm not done buying positions yet.


----------



## Bret

Kodak was another name from my youth that today still evokes good vibes. They just came out of bankruptcy and were listed again with a new symbol. I want to buy a souvenir here but there is no research to get a grip on. I will give them a little time and see.


----------



## okiemom

I know... we all should buy twitter.... hehe


----------



## Bret

I saw this crawling across the screen today at lunch. CLVS


----------



## okiemom

okay... the rest of the story?? why clvs?


----------



## clovis

*Okiemom* and *Bret*:

Are you dividend investors only, or are you playing the market for quick flips also?


----------



## Bret

okiemom said:


> okay... the rest of the story?? why clvs?


I was having fun with our fellow homesteader Clovis. I wanted to see if it was his new company.


----------



## clovis

Good one, Bret.

I totally missed that one...it went right over my head!!!

In the early days of this thread, another poster PM'ed me about a stock they were following. They said "If you want to know a hot stock I've been following...LMK".

Well, I couldn't find LMK listed anywhere, and then it dawned on me that it was 'Let Me Know'.

LOL.


----------



## Bret

clovis said:


> *Okiemom* and *Bret*:
> 
> Are you dividend investors only, or are you playing the market for quick flips also?


I don't fit in any mold I guess. I only became an investor when I figured out that no one will watch your babies like you watch your babies.

In short, I would call myself a value investor. I see evidence in that I own some companies that do not pay a dividend. I felt at the time of buying that the company was under valued to me. I expect that I will be wrong the first time and sometimes the second time.

I often have a sell order on most. When there is a run up, It can go away just as fast. Someone is always willing to take out the gains.

Education is my primary goal in everything. Dividends and capital gains are a bonus. Losses are at times the tuition.


----------



## Bret

clovis said:


> Good one, Bret.
> 
> I totally missed that one...it went right over my head!!!
> 
> In the early days of this thread, another poster PM'ed me about a stock they were following. They said "If you want to know a hot stock I've been following...LMK".
> 
> Well, I couldn't find LMK listed anywhere, and then it dawned on me that it was 'Let Me Know'.
> 
> LOL.


I can't find LOL.


----------



## Bret

clovis said:


> Bret,
> 
> While you are at it, make sure you pick up a few jars of Miracle Whip and a case of Chicken in a Biskit crackers.


Clovis, I see that Kraft headline today.


----------



## okiemom

I want to be able to grow value and get income for the future. I look for everything to be an increasing investment (good luck with that) but, speculation is not something I will go for. Mainly I like the true and steady on dips. No fads and only sometimes slightly contrarian. I like the stocks the "buyers" are not going for currently as they are already too overvalued. it is harder now to get a great deal.


----------



## clovis

Bret said:


> Clovis, I see that Kraft headline today.


I saw that too.

Will Starbucks really pay that amount? KRFT said in the WSJ that the money won't affect their bottom line.

Do these big companies really pay each other when they have judgments against them? Remember when ATT was trying to buy T-Mobile? The contract held a clause in it that if the deal fell through, ATT would pay a crazy amount. I have never seen where ATT paid a dime of that.


----------



## clovis

The Dow is above 16,000 today.

Wishing now that I would have put everything I had into the market back when it was 9,000.


----------



## kens

What is the best online brokerage? It's been years since I've been in the market even though I know when the fed stops pumping money into the system it will fall like a deck of cards. I'd like to get my feet wet.


----------



## clovis

I use Scottrade, and love it.

They have local brick and mortar offices...just in case something goes wrong with my account, I have someone within a 15 minute drive of my house to yell at, and they all speak English as a first language.

They offer $7 trades on almost everything.

They don't send me tons of emails, or offer/push unwanted solicitation. No one is pumping and dumping, and no one is pushing proprietary ETF's or mutual funds so they can line their own pockets at the expense of their customers.

I've gotten to know the three guys at my local Scottrade office. It is nice to be able to call them and ask them questions about stocks, the market, their website, or just about anything to do with the market. They will never suggest or imply any stock recommendation, which is cool IMO.

I really like Scottrade. I'd give them an A+ as a broker. I really would.


----------



## okiemom

I like Schwab. that said I only use the local office for deposits the people are snobby and I feel like my acct. is not big enough for them to care about. Schwab phone customer service reps are really great.


----------



## clovis

okiemom said:


> I like Schwab. that said I only use the local office for deposits the people are snobby and I feel like my acct. is not big enough for them to care about. Schwab phone customer service reps are really great.


One thing I like about my local Scottrade office is that those guys are down to earth and easy to talk to.

There are no snobby attitudes to deal with at my local office. The head manager is an avid vegetable gardener (and a secret suburban homesteader type, I think, but he won't admit it), and all three of the guys drive older paid off cars, just like I do. All three pack their lunches to work, just like I would if I worked in an office.

And lastly, they treat everyone the same, whether they are depositing $20 or $20,000 into a $200 account or a $2,000,000 account.


----------



## willow_girl

Hello friends!

Well, I have hardly done any trading this year ... just too busy with other things (remodeling the house, having a huge garden). But I made it my New Year's resolution (for next year) to get back on the horse. 

Checked my portfolio yesterday after not looking at it for awhile, and got a huge surprise. I'd been holding 3 stocks that went down right after I bought them, and I'd been holding them FOREVAH ... like, more than a year. 

Except one (LSI) on Monday had shot up more than $3 a share ... sounds like a buyout is in the works. I just about FREAKED when I saw it, not only the black, but VERY in the black ... 

I almost broke a finger pounding the "Sell" button. Walked away with a profit of $840, the most I've ever made on a single transaction.

It's a good thing I wasn't keeping a closer eye on my portfolio ... I'd undoubtedly have dumped it sooner, and made a lot less. ound:


----------



## Bret

Too funny. We now know who the super rich are that have so many assets that they don't need to keep an eye on them. Made me grin.

When the markets up, I get drawn in. When the markets down, I practice piano.


----------



## clovis

WTG, Willow!!!!!


----------



## clovis

BTW, since the market is still down a little, I think I am going to miss making my goal of having a certain amount in my account by years end by $300 to $500.

I am so very close...but so far away. 

Could someone call Warren Buffet, and ask him to leak some news about buying one of the companies that I hold stock in? If I could get LLY to spike $5 a share, I'd make the goal with some to spare.


----------



## MoonRiver

I don't remember where I saw it or I would provide a link. It basically was predictions. The 2 that jumped out at me were solar and 3d printing. They were both predicted to grow at pretty spectacular rates over the next 10 years, so I bought etf's for both. Plan to just leave them sitting in my ira for a few years until I need to start drawing money out.


----------



## Halfway

Buffet added many, many XOM. Hate buying at all-time highs, but an addition of shares may be in order.


----------



## Steve in PA

MoonRiver said:


> I don't remember where I saw it or I would provide a link. It basically was predictions. The 2 that jumped out at me were solar and 3d printing. They were both predicted to grow at pretty spectacular rates over the next 10 years, so I bought etf's for both. Plan to just leave them sitting in my ira for a few years until I need to start drawing money out.


I heard a very compelling case this morning that the alternative energy sector will be dead for a very long time. Natural gas is too cheap to encourage wind or solar and there is going to be massive amounts coming online in the next few years.

I would also expect that we'll see an oil glut as well with Mexico opening up its resources to foreign investment. My understanding is that our refineries have already reached the point where they just can't process any more crude.

I'm going to look to exit my energy-related positions if the price is right over the next year and roll my "winnings" into PJL which yields ~7%.


----------



## Waiting Falcon

Many body buying T-mobile? Heard it is to go UP


----------



## Halfway

SHLD. Always a value below 4 billion market cap. Always a short above 5 billion market cap.


----------



## fordy

Steve in PA said:


> I heard a very compelling case this morning that the alternative energy sector will be dead for a very long time. Natural gas is too cheap to encourage wind or solar and there is going to be massive amounts coming online in the next few years.
> 
> I would also expect that we'll see an oil glut as well with Mexico opening up its resources to foreign investment. My understanding is that our refineries have already reached the point where they just can't process any more crude.
> 
> I'm going to look to exit my energy-related positions if the price is right over the next year and roll my "winnings" into PJL which yields ~7%.


 .................IF , the natural gas liquification projects get completed , LNG will be exported to markets like Japan where the market price is Much higher ! Once the exports start , the supply\demand curve is going to change over time and the US market price(s) will start to increase which will take some pressure off of solar and wind . , fordy


----------



## okiemom

do not get fancy.... stick with the basics. let the others with deep pockets play in the new energy sectors. little investors do not need to mess with the unknown.


----------



## txplowgirl

Well, I've always been interested in stocks and opened a buyandhold account and bought some GE when it was down to around 9 and change. Managed to get 44 shares and now it's up over 27. Also bought some Ford shares when it was about 7 , got 50 shares at that time and now it's just a tad bit over 15. So, I think I did pretty good there. I've decided to keep these for long term and do some dollar cost averaging.

Then I opened a short time trading account at OptionsXpress. Now something I'm looking at is Ivanhoe Energy. I bought 120 shares at .58 a week ago and it hit .68 Friday. Now i'm trying to decide if I want to buy more or just stay with what I have. If anyone is interested the ticker is IVAN. 

Why did I buy this? Well, my gut instinct said buy it and I wanted a cheap energy stock that was in the pennies. So, I took a chance.

I'm also looking at a small stock called StemCells Inc, it's ticker is STEM and the shares are at 1.29 now, this has my gut going hmmmm. I have been wanting to get into health care stock of some kind and I like what I hear about the research in Stem cells and all the wonders it can do, so looking at this as maybe a long term buy and doing some dollar cost averaging on it also.


----------



## clovis

I picked up some more T today.

I would have liked to have bought it at a lower cost, but 5.30% yield isn't bad.


----------



## clovis

txplowgirl said:


> Well, I've always been interested in stocks and opened a buyandhold account and bought some GE when it was down to around 9 and change. Managed to get 44 shares and now it's up over 27. Also bought some Ford shares when it was about 7 , got 50 shares at that time and now it's just a tad bit over 15. So, I think I did pretty good there. I've decided to keep these for long term and do some dollar cost averaging.
> 
> Then I opened a short time trading account at OptionsXpress. Now something I'm looking at is Ivanhoe Energy. I bought 120 shares at .58 a week ago and it hit .68 Friday. Now i'm trying to decide if I want to buy more or just stay with what I have. If anyone is interested the ticker is IVAN.
> 
> I'm also looking at a small stock called StemCells Inc, it's ticker is STEM and the shares are at 1.29 now, this has my gut going hmmmm. I have been wanting to get into health care stock of some kind and I like what I hear about the research in Stem cells and all the wonders it can do, so looking at this as maybe a long term buy and doing some dollar cost averaging on it also.


Nice going on GE and F.

The beauty of your F stock is that you are now picking up 40 cents a year in dividend.

I'd like to buy F, and almost did when it was $2. It quickly went up from there, and I was too cheap to pay $7-$9 for it. 

I am on the sidelines with F right now. I'd definitely be a buyer at $12-ish, which would put the yield at 3%.


----------



## MoonRiver

MoonRiver said:


> I don't remember where I saw it or I would provide a link. It basically was predictions. The 2 that jumped out at me were solar and 3d printing. They were both predicted to grow at pretty spectacular rates over the next 10 years, so I bought etf's for both. Plan to just leave them sitting in my ira for a few years until I need to start drawing money out.


Solar etf is up 20% in a month
Technology (3D printing) etf is up 10% in a month
S&P is unchanged in last month

I think articles that try to predict the future might be a great resource for making stock selections. 30 days doesn't make a market, but so far it looks like it might have potential.

ETA: This is from a different article.
By year-end 2017, at least seven of the world's top 10 multichannel retailers will use 3D printing technologies to generate custom stock orders.​


----------



## FutureFarmer2

I have invested in this Reit the ticker is CIM Chimera Investment Corporation,
In the past 52 weeks it has been between $2.71 and $3.34.
Today it is trading at $3.09.
The beauty of this stock is the dividend, it has an 11.7% yield which is pretty good.


----------



## clovis

I watched CIM and NLY for several years, but quit watching when there was a rumor about a serious dividend cut on its way.

In '08, it was a $12-$14 share. I'm certainly glad I didn't jump in at those prices!!


----------



## tarbe

I broke down and took some profits over the past few weeks.

Now I am sitting on a ton of cash.

Sometimes it is great to have cash, others times, not so much.

I must resist the temptation to buy, just to avoid missing out (or getting clobbered if the dollar sinks).

Seems like so many sectors are flying high right now, I just don't see myself jumping in at this time.

I am 56 and still working full time (again), and figure I won't retire for good until about 60. So I have some time...

I have quite a bit in oil right now, so not looking to go there with any money. 

Where are you guys putting new cash now? I'd like to find a nice dividend payer that has gotten beaten up lately.

Edit: AT&T might be a good candidate....


Tim


----------



## logbuilder

I'm pretty much in the same situation. Where to put cash?

When I took some of the profits off the table, I kept my dividend producers. Here they are:

T 5.8% yield
PFF 7.24% yield
ETP 6.6% yield
SBR 6.4% yield


----------



## clovis

I still have T, and would like to pick up more.

Why on earth isn't ATT flying high right now? What has beaten them down so much?


----------



## tarbe

clovis said:


> I still have T, and would like to pick up more.
> 
> Why on earth isn't ATT flying high right now? What has beaten them down so much?


Sometimes it is nothing to do with the stock in question, it is all about folks fleeing to "greener pastures", hoping for bigger returns.

I almost put in an order before the open this morning. T had a good day today.


----------



## clovis

You've got me thinking about picking up additional shares of T.

For the small portfolio that I have, I am heavy on T, but the 5.8% yield is very tempting.


----------



## TheMartianChick

Since we started paying down debt several years ago, I have been using all extra cash to for that purpose. Back in November, I dusted off the old investment account and started watching a lot of stocks. I don't day trade, so my strategy is more of a buy and hold. I do keep the screens up on my computer so I can keep my finger on the pulse of things. Since that time, I've had a few successes with these two companies in particular:

I bought ZNGA in January and sold it last week at a 32% profit.

I bought FCEL on 2/25 and it is currently up by 145%. (As I was typing this, I heard CNBC say that this stock is in a bubble, but it is doing well for me!) 

The money in this account isn't "needed" for anything important, so I am able to take a few risks that I wouldn't take with a retirement account. Some people go to the casino and take their chances there. I'm the type to take a more calculated approach!

Edited to add: I notice that the stock has dropped a couple of % points since CNBC's comments. I might have to sell it today to maintain the gains... Or I might wait for it to drop and then buy some more! Decisions...decisions...


----------



## clovis

I still like COP.

It would be nice to see a pull back for a few more points before I jump in.

Tarbe...are you still holding COP? Do you still like the stock?

Whaddaya think about BP?


----------



## tarbe

clovis said:


> I still like COP.
> 
> It would be nice to see a pull back for a few more points before I jump in.
> 
> Tarbe...are you still holding COP? Do you still like the stock?
> 
> Whaddaya think about BP?


Nope...I took profits on COP. BP liabilities still scare me....

I did buy a couple thousand shares of T the other day at 32.19. 

Looking at Kinder Morgan Energy Partners as a possible buy....been kinda beat up like T, but still makes money and pays a _great_ dividend.


----------



## clovis

I am in a quandry about T.

I am really heavy on T, and while I'd like to pick up a few more shares, I'd hate for the stock to turn into an Enron someday, LOL.

I do think that BP could be a winner _someday_, IF they ever get the gulf spill settled and paid off. They know how to find oil and make money. I have a small stake in BP already at $43 and $45.

What do you think of VZ?


----------



## clovis

Where do you all find news about the stocks you are studying?

While I like Scottrade as a brokerage firm, their news is lame. "AEP, in conjunction with the Greater East Side Parks system, dedicated two new trees and planted them."

I want real, hard news about the stock and company, and as much heads up about any potential Enron as I can get, LOL.

So where do you go for real stock news?


----------



## tarbe

Well dang it. I did it again....twice.

I bought T and had it for a couple weeks. It went up 5% and I sold it to bank my $4,000 profit. Of course, it went up another 5% after I sold!

Then I bought KMP. Held it 3 weeks and sold today and banked a $3,200 profit.

I bought both of these thinking that they had been beat up, and I would enjoy the nice dividend while I waited for them to go up. Both went up enough that I got what amounted to 6 to 12 months of dividend in a couple weeks, and I got weak-knee'd and dumped them.

I am just not cut out for saying no to a nice profit, while hoping for a huge profit.

Just watch and see what KMP does now that I got out today! :hysterical:

Warren Buffet I am not!


----------



## Michael W. Smith

tarbe said:


> I am just not cut out for saying no to a nice profit, while hoping for a huge profit.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Better to take a profit than to hold on thinking more profit is coming - only to be wrong and the stock drops!


----------



## Bret

I read the Clovis Report whenever I can.


----------



## tarbe

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am making less sense of this market as time goes on.

I am about 35% cash right now, and thinking I might increase my cash position. 

I did move about 20% into gold and silver the last two weeks. I guess I am feeling nervous about equities in general. So many global geo-political risks, not to mention just the usual purely economic issues.

So that means you all probably should jump in with both feet, as I am backing out! :hysterical:


----------



## Filson

I'm definitely a buy and hold type of guy. I've studied Graham, Lynch and Buffett over the years, and I live by the "you make your money when you buy" mentality.

I can't predict the future, so the best thing to do, in my opinion is look for companies that have been around for ages, and have a solid history of growth, great management, low debt and strong name brand. I don't know what will be out there in 50 years, but I'd bet Coca Cola is still turning out cans of coke, and McDonalds will still be selling burgers and fries.

Slow and steady wins the race, and thanks to the market fluctuation and panic by the average investor, you can sometimes have great opportunities to pick up quality companies for dirt cheap (like in 2008-2009). When your able to make those buys, you can see _very_ good returns. Buy quality and let the top tier management make you money. To quote Benjamin Graham, "More money has been lost reaching for yield than at the point of a gun."

98% of your stock research should be looking at the historic EPS, dividend history, management changes/issues/trends, and so on, than at the stock price. Shop for quality companies that you'd love to own, buy them, and let them turn out cash for you as the years go by.

I'm up 24% on RDS'B, but I'll be damned if I'll sell it. I'll keep it, continue to re-invest dividends and let it continue to grow over the years.

If your assets are spread out between 40-50 quality companies, than each holding only represents about 2% of your overall portfolio. Over the years you _will_ have the Enrons, the Kodaks, etc, but that's alright. Say you lose everything of that stock when it goes belly up, your out 2% and that loss will be replaced by growth in no time.

I don't sweat over the current prices of the stocks I own. They'll go up and down, but if you have the self dicipline to see it through, you'll be able to smile as you see people putting Coca Cola into their grocery carts, Johnson and Johnson and Unilever products in their carts, General Electric light bulbs for their house, and so on as you walk around the store, knowing a small percent of the money they're spending is going in your pocket.


----------



## tarbe

Filson, I agree completely with what you are saying...I have preached this same message myself.

There are just times when I cannot seem to live the advice...and now seems to be one of those times.

I felt the same way in 2000 and 2007. Not saying we are going to have a repeat of those days, but.......I am going to try to stay at least 30% cash for the time being, so I can have something to buy those (maybe) bargains with!


----------



## Steve in PA

Trailing Stops...Always. I'm 1/3 in cash right now waiting for a drop so I can be buying.


----------



## Filson

tarbe said:


> Filson, I agree completely with what you are saying...I have preached this same message myself.
> 
> There are just times when I cannot seem to live the advice...and now seems to be one of those times.
> 
> I felt the same way in 2000 and 2007. Not saying we are going to have a repeat of those days, but.......I am going to try to stay at least 30% cash for the time being, so I can have something to buy those (maybe) bargains with!


It can be hard to follow one's own advice, but self-discipline will become second nature over time, if you stay strong about it.

Keeping cash on hand is good for just that reason. As for the year 2000, that was my freshmen year of high school, wish I knew then what I know now, not that I'm doing all that bad so far.


----------



## Twobottom

Get out now while the gettin is good. The whole thing has reached its peak and is about to nose dive, if you're still in the market you are a cockeyed optimist!


----------



## Filson

Twobottom said:


> Get out now while the gettin is good. The whole thing has reached its peak and is about to nose dive, if you're still in the market you are a cockeyed optimist!


Everyone, PLEASE listen to this person and follow their advice. I will watch the prices plummet and I'll get to buy more shares of great stocks at dirt cheap prices


----------



## tarbe

Filson said:


> It can be hard to follow one's own advice, but self-discipline will become second nature over time, if you stay strong about it.
> 
> Keeping cash on hand is good for just that reason. As for the year 2000, that was my freshmen year of high school, wish I knew then what I know now, not that I'm doing all that bad so far.


Well, you are only about 27 years, and a few roller-coaster rides, behind me!

I have been at this just long enough to know that 7 figures can become 4 figures pretty quickly if you get greedy or stupid. I am trying to remind myself that I no longer need to make a killing...I really just need to avoid big losses.

I still like to play though. I need to get over that.


----------



## Filson

tarbe said:


> Well, you are only about 27 years, and a few roller-coaster rides, behind me!
> 
> I have been at this just long enough to know that 7 figures can become 4 figures pretty quickly if you get greedy or stupid. I am trying to remind myself that I no longer need to make a killing...I really just need to avoid big losses.
> 
> I still like to play though. I need to get over that.


If your at 7 figures, you _really_ need to pull back on wanting to "play". You should really be looking at preservation of capital vs trying to reach for a few extra percentage points.

Mix up your assets. Have some in quality blue chip stocks, buy some real estate (small apartment complex, little hotel/motel, etc) that will produce more income for retirement, maybe look into a little timberland as a commodity generator and to add some diversity to your holdings. Bonds are pretty much a joke right now as you probably know, but whenever the interest goes up a bit, consider moving some of your capital into bonds.

Also sense you have some experience in the world - consider putting thoughts to paper and picking up a pen and write out a couple ebooks or something to create some royalties.

Take a few grand, open a separate account and use that as your "play" money.

Best of luck!


----------



## tarbe

Well, speaking of "play" money...I did buy 7,000 shares of FST some weeks back, after it had crashed from $3.20 to under $2/share.

It was one of those speculation buys, where I figured the panic was always overdone. I immediately put a sell order in at a 20% gain.

I actually forgot about the sell order, so when I checked FST this morning and saw that it had opened up about 26% above yesterdays close, but quickly lost half that bounce, I winced when I thought of the lost opportunity.

Then I opened my account and saw that I sold at the open, at $2.44! :banana:

Not a lot of money for sure, but any time I can get a 20% gain banked in that short a time, I have to consider myself lucky.

Now, if I had just bought 20 times as many shares..... :hammer: 

But then I would be risking the wrath of DW! 

I absolutely need to keep the speculation playing low key. I need to remember GM and Lehman Brothers!! They were low key speculations of mine that did not turn out so well. 


Tim


----------



## Filson

tarbe said:


> I absolutely need to keep the speculation playing low key. I need to remember GM and Lehman Brothers!! They were low key speculations of mine that did not turn out so well.
> 
> 
> Tim


Tim,

CLF gave me a swift kick between the legs. Live and learn. The number one rule with investing is don't lose money. But... It's hard to know how to do well, while doing it safely, without experiencing some downfalls early on when your learning. 

The best thing I could of learned (and did) from my experience is to keep pushing forward and don't get scared away when things don't work out as you hoped. Success has found a man many more times over through perseverance than luck. It's a give and take. :duel:


----------



## okiemom

losses are not always bad. they are really good for balancing tax gains. the key is to be in as many stocks across all the fields/sectors as possible. the dividends will keep rolling in and they can then be reinvested. have a large savings for the great deals is good.


----------



## Filson

okiemom said:


> losses are not always bad. they are really good for balancing tax gains. *the key is to be in as many stocks across all the fields/sectors as possible*. the dividends will keep rolling in and they can then be reinvested. have a large savings for the great deals is good.


I'll add that diversity is very important, but don't pick up a bunch of random stocks just for the sake of diversity. If your uncomfortable with learning how to properly pick individual stocks (and even then, you should be spread out across many many industries) than focusing on a quality index fund may be your best bet.


----------



## clovis

Anyone still trading?

I am finding it harder and harder to find decent valuations on stocks with good dividend yield. Many of the stocks on my watch list are at 52 week highs!!!


----------



## clovis

Two frustrating things this week:

I've been watching TEG, which is a utility. I am heavy with utilities in my small portfolio, so I hadn't bought any shares of this company. TEG had a buyout offer yesterday, and the stock was up $9 a share at one point.

I've been trying to buy BP for it's dividend, especially on a pull back, and the stock keeps going higher and higher, and higher. I am at a 'drop back and punt' on my plan to buy more shares.


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Well Clovis, MPC (Marathon Petroleum Corporation) took a big hit today - down $5.48. Closed at $80.90.
MPC had been increasing steadily, and lately it's been going down.
I'm a buy and hold kind of guy - thinking I should maybe send in some money.


----------



## clovis

Looks like MPC got hammered today, down about $8 or so at one point.

Hope you do well with the stock!!!! The dividend is a little too low for me at this point. If a person could pick it up at its 52 week low of $61, (which is unlikely), the yield might be good.


----------



## clovis

MWS-

Do you have any higher yielding stocks in your portfolio, and would you care to share them with me so I can put them on my watch list?


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Clovis,

I ended up with Marathon Petroleum when Marathon Oil spun it off. It's kind of hard to pass up free shares - and I've been happy with it thus far.

Sure, here is a list of a few:

T A T & T 5.00 % yield
AEP American Electric 3.80 % yield
CVX Chevron 3.50 % yield
DUK Duke Energy 4.40 % yield 
HE Hawaii Electric 5.10 % yield 
MSEX Middlesex Water 3.80 % yield
VZ Verizon 4.30 % yield

A plus with the above stocks is you can buy all of them direct from the company - or through their transfer company with little or no fees.


----------



## clovis

Thank you, MWS!

I own shares in T. 

AEP, DUK, and VZ have been on my watch list forever and a day.


----------



## Michael W. Smith

clovis said:


> AEP, DUK, and VZ have been on my watch list forever and a day.


I invested in AEP with a very small yearly rental check I started to get in 2012. I figured instead of just spending that little rental check and having it disappear, I would invest it in AEP. In 2012 I bought at $39.91 / share. In 2013 I bought at $45.66 / share. For 2014 I recently bought at $52.72 / share. Yesterday's closing price was $55.77. It's too bad it's the little rental check money I was using! 

VZ even offers a direct IRA - Traditional or Roth if you are looking for a long term investment. That 4.3% dividend yield is kind of nice when reinvesting dividends.


----------



## tarbe

clovis said:


> Anyone still trading?
> 
> I am finding it harder and harder to find decent valuations on stocks with good dividend yield. Many of the stocks on my watch list are at 52 week highs!!!



Agreed!

I had a couple positions that have bounced pretty nicely...SLV over the last month or so and CLF over the past 2 weeks. As usual, I got jumpy when I saw some gains approaching 10% in a fairly short term, so I dumped a good portion of each. 

Anyone wanting a quick gain could put in a buy order now for SLV or CLF...now that I sold a bunch, they are bound to bounce even more!

I said a while back I was going to try to stay 30% cash so I could take advantage of any pull-back. I find myself at about 60% cash right now for the reason you mentioned Clovis. Tough finding bargains out there.

I want to be liquid so I can jump on bargains when needed, but I hate making 0.1% in a money market! 

I think I will just lay under a rock for a while and see what happens.


----------



## frogmammy

They may be too low dollar for many, but I like RNO and CLCT for dividends. They are both slow movers...I buy and sell them a lot 

Mon


----------



## clovis

My most recent buy was BGS. They are a food company that owns a ton of brand names, with Ortega and Cream of Wheat being two of their top products.

Decent div yield, about 4.2%.

The stock has dropped some since I've bought it. My hope is that it continues to drop so I can pick up additional shares.


----------



## clovis

tarbe said:


> Agreed!
> 
> I had a couple positions that have bounced pretty nicely...SLV over the last month or so and CLF over the past 2 weeks. As usual, I got jumpy when I saw some gains approaching 10% in a fairly short term, so I dumped a good portion of each.
> 
> I said a while back I was going to try to stay 30% cash so I could take advantage of any pull-back. I find myself at about 60% cash right now for the reason you mentioned Clovis. Tough finding bargains out there.
> 
> I think I will just lay under a rock for a while and see what happens.


Tarbe,

What dividend stocks are on your watch list? Would you be kind and share?


----------



## tarbe

clovis said:


> Tarbe,
> 
> What dividend stocks are on your watch list? Would you be kind and share?


Sorry for the slow response, have not been on the thread in a while.

Current watch list included (but not limited to):

T
BHP
KMP
COP
MO
GIS
NOV
WU
PG
LINE
KRFT
MMM
RDS-B

Not buying any of these right now! Actually, I am *95%* out right now, waiting for prices that make me think the risks are acceptable.

I am perfectly willing to miss out on whatever gains might have been in play. I am just not willing to walk the rope this high off the ground.


----------



## clovis

Thanks, Tarbe.

I did not know that MMM had such an attractive dividend.

I own shares in T, KRFT, RDS-A and MO, albeit, they are very small investments. COP is on my watch list.

Thank you for sharing your list. I will check the other stocks you listed.

BTW, why RDS-B, instead of RDS-A?


----------



## clovis

GSK took it on the chin today, and MCD is getting the daylights beat out of it this week.

I might be a buyer of MCD in the $90 range. 

KRFT took a hit today too, down $1.53. I'd love to own more shares of KRFT, but I'd like to get a 4% yield. I think it is the strongest stock on my watch list.

The BGS that I bought a few weeks ago has gotten kicked to the curb recently, due to a bad quarter. I am also watching that stock, and if it gets close to it's 52 week low, I would buy that.

I am also interested in BP, but they could suffer over those sanctions. I'll wait and see on BP too.

Thoughts, anyone?


----------



## Michael W. Smith

MPC just announced today a 19% dividend increase - from $.42 / share to $.50. With the dividend at $.42, it only yields 1.9%.

Let's see, I bought it . . . oh wait . . . I didn't buy any of it. Marathon Oil gave it to me when they spun off MPC. My first dividend reinvestment in September of 2011 had a purchase price of $36.12.

Purchase price in September of 2012 was $52.45.

Purchase price in September of 2013 was $68.20.

Current closing price today of $78.98.

And now they are going to give me even more money!! You gotta love that!!


----------



## notwyse

So. Anybody buy glw after it fell?


----------



## MoonRiver

So is everybody buying or selling?

I got hit a little today, but not that bad. I had been moving to cash over the last month. My few remaining stocks are all dividend stocks that have been fairly stable for the last couple of years.


----------



## tarbe

clovis said:


> BTW, why RDS-B, instead of RDS-A?


Tax advantage.


----------



## tarbe

MoonRiver said:


> So is everybody buying or selling?
> 
> I got hit a little today, but not that bad. I had been moving to cash over the last month. My few remaining stocks are all dividend stocks that have been fairly stable for the last couple of years.


I got 95% out over the past month.

5% is in a 3x leveraged bear fund.

Watching from the bunker for now!

KRFT is tempting me big time.


----------



## MoonRiver

tarbe said:


> 5% is in a 3x leveraged bear fund.


I tries to buy a similar etf today but it was up over 5% when I put my bid in. It ended up over 6% today. I'll have to wait and see if it comes back a little.


----------



## clovis

MoonRiver said:


> So is everybody buying or selling?
> 
> I got hit a little today, but not that bad. I had been moving to cash over the last month. My few remaining stocks are all dividend stocks that have been fairly stable for the last couple of years.


I am looking to buy, but not sure if I am going to bust a move.

I think some of the stocks that I am looking can go lower, like KRFT, BP and GSK.

The bad quarter that KRFT reported was bad. BP faces sanctions in Russia, and GSK has been bribing every hospital in the world.

Of course, when I think there is still a bottom to be found, the stocks go up, and when I think that stocks will go up, they generally crater pretty hard.


----------



## tarbe

MoonRiver said:


> I tries to buy a similar etf today but it was up over 5% when I put my bid in. It ended up over 6% today. I'll have to wait and see if it comes back a little.


Yeah, needless to say, it was a good day for the bear funds! :bouncy:

$60,000 question is, what will tomorrow bring?

Who knows. This market has a lot of weirdness in it, from all the strange manipulations going on.


----------



## clovis

I picked up a small amount of shares in BP today to add to the small amount that I already own.


----------



## clovis

*Michael W Smith*

I hope you were able to pick up more shares of MPC. It is on fire, up 6 or 7 points.


----------



## Michael W. Smith

clovis said:


> *Michael W Smith*
> 
> I hope you were able to pick up more shares of MPC. It is on fire, up 6 or 7 points.


Nope, at this point in time, the bulk of my investing consists of going into my 401K or my ROTH IRA.
I am having all dividends reinvested though.


----------



## clovis

That is cool. I saw that MPC hit $90 +/-.

I am waiting for a pull back on COP. I should have bought it when it was around $60!!!!


----------



## Michael W. Smith

clovis said:


> That is cool. I saw that MPC hit $90 +/-.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Did some checking through my records and found out I bought MRO (Marathon Oil Corporation) in sometime back in 2007. I have reinvesting dividends ever since.
> 
> In 2011, MRO decided to "spin off" a company - and thus MPC (Marathon Petroleum) was born. They gave me 1 share of MPC for every share of MRO I had. At that point, I had a made a small profit, but when MRO "spun off" MPC, MRO's stock price went down - and with MPC's stock price - pretty much came out to the price before the spin off and before the price went down.
> 
> Today, MRO is worth more than my initial investment.
> 
> And then I have all the MPC shares that were given to me - back when the price was $41.00. And reinvesting all dividends back into it. Today, the MPC stock is worth more than the MRO!! And remember, I only paid for the MRO and got the MPC stock for free! :bouncy:


----------



## clovis

Michael W. Smith said:


> clovis said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is cool. I saw that MPC hit $90 +/-.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Did some checking through my records and found out I bought MRO (Marathon Oil Corporation) in sometime back in 2007. I have reinvesting dividends ever since.
> 
> In 2011, MRO decided to "spin off" a company - and thus MPC (Marathon Petroleum) was born. They gave me 1 share of MPC for every share of MRO I had. At that point, I had a made a small profit, but when MRO "spun off" MPC, MRO's stock price went down - and with MPC's stock price - pretty much came out to the price before the spin off and before the price went down.
> 
> Today, MRO is worth more than my initial investment.
> 
> And then I have all the MPC shares that were given to me - back when the price was $41.00. And reinvesting all dividends back into it. Today, the MPC stock is worth more than the MRO!! And remember, I only paid for the MRO and got the MPC stock for free! :bouncy:
> 
> 
> 
> No matter how you got the stock, you are looking like a genius!
> 
> Congrats on the good fortune!!!
Click to expand...


----------



## ldc

FYI: Saw on PBS/NBR broadcast last night that UnitedHealth currently has contracts w 4 states to implement the administrative side of the ACA/Obamacare, but has won the bid for 20 more states for Jan 1, 2015...just in case this helps someone!


----------



## Michael W. Smith

clovis said:


> No matter how you got the stock, you are looking like a genius!


A genius I am not. How I ended up with MRO is after getting a list of companies that you can buy stock directly through, I narrowed the list down - taking out the ones with fees or at least fees that were not feasible in my mind.

I then narrowed the list down more by what the company did and how it was doing.

I then started investing and all dividends have been reinvested. That was the plan all along - pick a good company, reinvest all dividends, and stick with it unless something changed with the company I didn't like anymore.

It's certainly fun to invest though and see ever increasing dividends.


----------



## clovis

I love dividends...I really do!!! 

I bought LLY back in 2009, when the stock was cheap and the yield was high. 

I am blessed. I have had at least 20% of my initial investment returned with dividends, and the stock has almost doubled in price since then.

Of course, as with any stock, the company could go belly up at any time, causing the stock to be worthless. 

I am thankful and blessed. I really am. To the outside world, I look like a genius. I'll not tell them about some of my other picks, like EXC and WHZ, LOL.


----------



## MoonRiver

I've got a stock to share with you. It is the only one I own right now.

It's a preferred stock - Magnum Hunter Resources Preferred C. Right now it is paying a dividend of 9.81% and pays monthly. The reason I like it is because it has a liquidation of $25 and the price has rarely dropped below $25. Right now it is a little over $26.

http://www.preferredstockchannel.com/symbol/mhr.prc/

Of course, me posting this almost guarantees it is going down, so maybe wait and watch.


----------



## clovis

So is it a gas and oil royalty trust?

I didn't have much time to study it, and am a bit confused. Can you explain the stock a little more?


----------



## LoonyK

From the link it says post call date, so does that mean they can grab back those shares anytime and if someone bought them for 26 something right now, they would only get 25 back if that happened>


----------



## clovis

LoonyK said:


> From the link it says post call date, so does that mean they can grab back those shares anytime and if someone bought them for 26 something right now, they would only get 25 back if that happened>


That is what it looked like to me.


----------



## MoonRiver

LoonyK said:


> From the link it says post call date, so does that mean they can grab back those shares anytime and if someone bought them for 26 something right now, they would only get 25 back if that happened>


I think so. But if you bought at current price, your risk would be about 4% downside if they call the shares and you are getting almost 10% in interest. The good part is that puts a $25 floor on the stock. Anytime it does happen to drop under $25, I buy some more.


----------



## MoonRiver

clovis said:


> So is it a gas and oil royalty trust?
> 
> I didn't have much time to study it, and am a bit confused. Can you explain the stock a little more?


A couple of years ago I started looking at preferred stocks thinking they would be less volatile. With the $25 buyback, this one looked like it would be most stable and the company (MHR) also seemed to be a well run company in the oil/gas industry. I owned MHR for a while, but I don't have the stomach for volatility. The MHR Preferred C suits my needs for a high dividend/low volatility stock.

I believe preferred just means we can't vote.


----------



## clovis

It is an interesting investment.

So, if I read it correctly, it is a stock, and not an issuance of debt. 

It appears that it may be traded as a pink sheet. Are they listed at this time?

There is risk. If you read page S-16 of the prospectus, they have an out of not paying dividends. Of course, there is risk with all stocks and divs.


----------



## MoonRiver

clovis said:


> It is an interesting investment.
> 
> So, if I read it correctly, it is a stock, and not an issuance of debt.
> 
> It appears that it may be traded as a pink sheet. Are they listed at this time?
> 
> There is risk. If you read page S-16 of the prospectus, they have an out of not paying dividends. Of course, there is risk with all stocks and divs.


Here's a primer on preferred stocks. http://www.investopedia.com/articles/stocks/06/preferredstock.asp

It's listed on NYSE. The problem is different brokers list it differently. For example, Ameritrade lists it as MHR-C and Fidelity lists it as MHRPRC. What I usually do is use the stock lookup and type in mhr and then find the preferred c stock listing.


----------



## clovis

I am starting to eye MCD, but there could be a further drop, according to my crystal ball.

Also, I want to go on the official record to say that I LOVE DIVIDENDS!!!!!!!!

I LOVE THEM!!!!
I LOVE THEM!!!


----------



## okiemom

I have been looking at the beat up sectors for possible great dividend stocks. retail and mining has be hit hard. there seems to be something to research. anyone looking at these sectors? What so you think the most beat up sectors are currently? 

I have been also watching gsk galaxo smith kline. 

lately it has been hard to find bargains.


----------



## clovis

Yes, GSK is getting beat up pretty bad. 

I own some shares of GSK, and would like to add more. Seems that GSK has tried to bribe everyone in the world, which has hurt their share price. My bet is that all this will be forgotten in a few years, and the stock price will bounce back.

I also like BP, but it is a gamble at this point, for obvious reasons.


----------



## clovis

As for mining stocks, I am a little scared of coal. If you look at Arch Coal, be careful...the dividend only pays once a year.


----------



## clovis

okiemom said:


> I have been looking at the beat up sectors for possible great dividend stocks. retail and mining has be hit hard. there seems to be something to research. anyone looking at these sectors? What so you think the most beat up sectors are currently?
> 
> I have been also watching gsk galaxo smith kline.
> 
> lately it has been hard to find bargains.


You might look at BGS. It is a food company with a nice dividend. It is closer to its 52 week low. I am watching for another drop in the stock.


----------



## MoonRiver

I usually buy dividend stocks that pay monthly. I don't know if they are any safer, but I feel safer with them. The stock price is usually a little more stable.


----------



## clovis

Care to share your favorite div payers, Moon?

I've looked at quite a few monthly div payers, but haven't found any that I like well enough to buy. Most of what I've seen are low yielding.


----------



## LoonyK

I don't mind phk for the monthly money


----------



## clovis

Anyone watching the market after the decline?

I am seeing better prices, but no real bargains, IMO.

What stocks are you looking at? Are you waiting for the Dow to drop even more?


----------



## popeye

Hey guys, not a great day/week so far for the market ... I've been trading for awhile (with Lightspeed) but pretty much have gone to cash except for a few dividend stocks. Many feel a correction is ahead.

Like Moon, I like some monthlies too. Beside PHK, a few monthly MLPs, BDCs, etc you might watch to ride back up:

PHK, PSEC, FSC, ARR, LINE, LNCO, YYY, CEFL, QRE, VNR, BBEP, and ARP.


I usually watch the ex-dividend dates here:

http://www.dividend.com/dividend-st...independent-oil-and-gas/line-linn-energy-llc/

and the charts at yahoo:

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=LINE+Interactive#symbol=LINE;range=my

Good luck out there ... Pop


----------



## okiemom

Is anyone taking this plunge as a buy? It does feel a little like the crash several years ago. Ie close eyes and pray.  I will say I really hate rollercoasters, really makes my stomach hurt.


----------



## popeye

okiemom said:


> Is anyone taking this plunge as a buy? It does feel a little like the crash several years ago. Ie close eyes and pray.  I will say I really hate rollercoasters, really makes my stomach hurt.



Some out there think it will be worse then '08. You mentioned sectors a few posts back ... days like this one I look for what sector is going up when everything else is diving and *what some of those charts looked like in '08 *for an indicator when to re-enter. The *midstream *guys mostly had a good day and many carry a good dividend (some monthly):

http://www.finviz.com/screener.ashx?v=111&f=ind_oilgaspipelines


But looking back to '08 in a few charts, Sunoco *may* not fall far, and APL *may* plunge some more, wish I knew:


http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=sxl


http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=APL+Interactive#symbol=APL;range=my


I generally just focus on a few technicals, nothing particularly brainy or complicated (not that anyone else should).

Pop


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Nearing the end of the year, and I still have IRA's to fill up.

I think I know where I'm putting the money for mine and my wife's IRA. But my 16 year old son just got a job this year, and I told him I would match anything he made this year and open an IRA for him. (You can NEVER start too early to save for retirement!)

I'm considering either WTR or VZ for him.


----------



## MoonRiver

Looking for some feedback.

I am thinking about just buying SSO which is an ETF based on 2 x S&P 500. From it's low in 2009 of about 20, it is now 120 or 600% increase over 6 years.

S&P from 2001 - 2013 (increase of about 87% over 13 years which includes losses in 2001-2002 and 2008). 

*S&P 500 (actual rate not 2 x rate)*
2013  32.39%  
2012  16.00% 
 2011  2.11% 
 2010  15.06%  
2009  26.46% 
 2008  -37.00%  
2007  5.49%  
2006  15.79%  
2005  4.91% 
 2004   10.88% 
 2003  28.68%  
2002  -22.10%  
2001  -11.89% 

What do you think? I'm thinking as long as we are in an up market, this is something I don't have to watch every day and should be relatively safe and probably provide double digit returns.


----------



## frogmammy

Ha! Up market? I must pick contrary stocks.

Mon


----------



## MoonRiver

frogmammy said:


> Ha! Up market? I must pick contrary stocks.
> 
> Mon


That was my point. Only 3 of the last 13 years have been negative for S&P. My stock picking is terrible and even though I have been using an advising service, my gains are no where near the gains in S&P.


----------



## Michael W. Smith

Shhh . . . . . do you hear that? CHAAAAA CHIIIING!!!!!

I'm doing great right now. I just found that one of longer holdings HE - Hawaii Electric is being bought out by Next Era! Stock is up over $4.00 today - it has mostly sat around in the mid $20.00's with some dips over the years. The buyout is worth $33.50 per share.

Once the deal is done - I will get so many shares of Next Era plus a bonus dividend of $.50 / share. The deal won't probably be done until sometime late next year, so in the meantime, my dividends continue to buy more shares. 

A bonus is HE also owns a bank which is NOT part of the deal. The bank portion is being spun off, so I get free shares of it.

Below are the dates I've bought in at and share price:

07/2/07 $23.70 / share
08/15/07 $21.16 / share
10/15/07 $22.67 / share
01/30/08 $22.13 / share
03/31/08 $23.57 / share
06/30/08 $25.08 / share
09/30/08 $28.69 / share
09/03/09 $17.54 / share
02/01/10 $19.96 / share

Wooooo Hooooo!!!!!!


----------



## okiemom

Anyone liking any of the oil or energy stocks? The ride is wild today. Bp and RDS have been on the watch list. The dividends will be great if they don't have to cut them due to lack of cash on hand. The crystal ball is rather hazy currently.

I figured shipping would be doing better with the low prices but they have never recovered from 09. 

Communications are also being hit. T and vz are on sale. There seem to be some good stocking stuffers out there.


----------



## Michael W. Smith

I'm not sure what to think of oil stocks. 

From what I'm reading, there seems to be an oil glut right now and OPEC has decided to fight it - not by reducing production to raise prices - but to continue producing as usual in the hope the low oil prices puts some producers out of business.

I do own oil stocks, but I'm keeping the ones I have - but I don't think I'll be adding to them at this point.

With OPEC not reducing production, that will at least give everyone a break at the gas pump.


----------



## clovis

I'm not sure what to make of the oil stocks either.

My guess is that OPEC will continue to try to crush the other producers, at least for a few months. If you are going to try to destroy another business, a short dip isn't going to do it. IMO, it needs to be a prolonged 'hurt', if you will, to really run them out of cash and to decimate their cash flow.

I think that it is time to add more oil stocks to my position, but I am not sure which stock to pick.

I like COP. It has hit a new 52 week low, IIRC.

I like BP, but they still have the estimated $10 billion hit looming over them. BP themselves have said that the div may be in play when that fine is levied. 

I like RDS/A, but the Dutch government takes 15% of every div that comes in. It isn't that much, but it gets under my skin, KWIM?

It isn't like I am making a huge investment that will move the market, LOL, but I would like to make the best investment that I can.

Thoughts, anyone?

What oil stocks do you like?


----------



## Michael W. Smith

October 31 Exxon Mobil closed at $96.71. 
Today it closed at $86.41.
In the past 52 weeks, it reached a high of $104.76 on July 29th.

I think now may at least be a good time to finish filling up your IRA's for the year. I did just send in money to finish off my IRA for the year.

I'll have to get more money to finish filling my wife's.


----------



## okiemom

on rdsa our tax man fills out a form and we are reimbursed for the fees. might look into it.


----------



## okiemom

I am wondering how long this will last (oil) as it seems to be directly related to making Russia punished for being aggressive. Never mind Venezuela. Oil would be a very long play. years/decades not weeks months.


----------



## tarbe

okiemom said:


> I am wondering how long this will last (oil) as it seems to be directly related to making Russia punished for being aggressive. Never mind Venezuela. Oil would be a very long play. years/decades not weeks months.


Because it is so much about artificial manipulation, it could be over as quick as it happened.

Not predicting that...but I would say years on the outside, not decades.


----------



## Michael W. Smith

With the recent decline in the market, I took advantage to finish funding my ROTH IRA for the year. 

Since McDonalds was getting beat up, I sent in the remaining $4000.00. Got 44.590 shares of it at $89.57 / share.

Today McDonald's closed at $94.22! That's a nice "profit" of over $200.00.

Their dividend pays .85 cents per year, so those 44 shares will give over $37.00 / year to reinvest in more shares.

I figure I should have a nice amount in 20 years when I retire.

Remember, if you are 49 or younger, you can put $5500.00 in an IRA. Age 50 and over, you can put in $6500.00.


----------



## MoonRiver

okiemom said:


> I am wondering how long this will last (oil) as it seems to be directly related to making Russia punished for being aggressive. Never mind Venezuela. Oil would be a very long play. years/decades not weeks months.


From what I have been reading, it's not the US that is causing the low prices, but the Saudis. They are trying to put several of the smaller US oil companies that use fracking out of business.


----------



## MoonRiver

MoonRiver said:


> I usually buy dividend stocks that pay monthly. I don't know if they are any safer, but I feel safer with them. The stock price is usually a little more stable.


The newsletter I subscribe to (high dividend) just announced they are going to concentrate on stocks with monthly dividends.


----------



## clovis

Michael W. Smith said:


> With the recent decline in the market, I took advantage to finish funding my ROTH IRA for the year.
> 
> Since McDonalds was getting beat up, I sent in the remaining $4000.00. Got 44.590 shares of it at $89.57 / share.
> 
> Today McDonald's closed at $94.22! That's a nice "profit" of over $200.00.
> 
> Their dividend pays .85 cents per year, so those 44 shares will give over $37.00 / year to reinvest in more shares.
> 
> I figure I should have a nice amount in 20 years when I retire.
> 
> Remember, if you are 49 or younger, you can put $5500.00 in an IRA. Age 50 and over, you can put in $6500.00.


Nice, MWS!

I still have MCD on my watch list. 

My biggest concern about the company is where they will be in 20 years. Can they continue to thrive and survive? It is a competitive marketplace, and growing more difficult as time passes.

Your thoughts???


----------



## clovis

I'm not sure if you all saw the market shift last week, when I placed my huge order for VZ.

(Sarcasm implied.)

I finally got around to picking up a few shares of VZ. A nice div payer at just under 5%, or so. 

I am concerned about growth with this stock, competition for them in the marketplace, the debt they carry, etc.

Thoughts, anyone?


----------



## MoonRiver

clovis said:


> I'm not sure if you all saw the market shift last week, when I placed my huge order for VZ.
> 
> (Sarcasm implied.)
> 
> I finally got around to picking up a few shares of VZ. A nice div payer at just under 5%, or so.
> 
> I am concerned about growth with this stock, competition for them in the marketplace, the debt they carry, etc.
> 
> Thoughts, anyone?


Just from looking at the chart, doesn't seem to have a lot of upside.

I bought some slv about a month ago and it has been a great hedge. Usually when the market has been down, slv was up. Plus it was even up on some up days. I also shorted s&p. I feel good being about even after the last couple of weeks.

I'm thinking of buying some gold and selling my s&p short.


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## Michael W. Smith

Clovis,

Yes, there is competition for MCD, but as many restaurants as what they have - not only in the U.S. but other countries as well, I'm sure they will still be a major company in 20 years. They sell food, and people HAVE to eat. (I know they don't have to eat THEIR food), but for the Soccer mom rushing to or from a game, those golden arches serve the purpose.

As for Verizon's future, they are a major cell phone carrier, and I don't see Verizon disappearing in the next 20 or 30 years either.

As you keep buying more and more shares, and the dividends keep getting reinvested, it sure is fun to see those dividend reinvestment amounts getting larger and larger each quarter.


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## clovis

Good point, MWS.

I think that MCD needs to get their act together. I feel like they have lost their way, but that is just my opinion. 

ETA: I still think that MCD is a good company and a good stock to hold.

What do you think of oil stocks? Are you looking at anything other than what you own now? Are you worried about potential div cuts to any of the companies?


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## clovis

These oil stocks are mighty tempting.

COP is boasting a 4.5% div and a P/E of less than 9. It is currently near a 52 week low.

What do you all think of COP and oil stocks?


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## Michael W. Smith

clovis said:


> I think that MCD needs to get their act together. I feel like they have lost their way, but that is just my opinion.
> 
> What do you think of oil stocks? Are you looking at anything other than what you own now? Are you worried about potential div cuts to any of the companies?


McDonalds is getting a new CEO (the current one has resigned) - so hopefully things get fixed. I see where they are looking into cutting back their menu. Their menu has gotten bigger (trying to lure in more people to try new things - which is good), but which has also caused a longer wait time - both at the counter and the drive thru. (Edited after hours - McDonald's stock rose $4.49 / share to $93.27 / share - must be the announcement of the new CEO.)

Oil stocks. I'm holding what I own. If I had extra money right now, I would be buying - many have been beaten down. As for dividend cuts, many oil companies are sitting on a boatload of cash. And these cheap oil prices aren't going last too long (my opinion). So far, Chevron and Marathon Oil have declared dividends. Same as last quarter with no mention of a cut.


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## Bret

I was long ago interested in T Boone Pickens CLNE because I liked the concept and T Boone. I started positions recently for way down the road.


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## Michael W. Smith

A few of my stocks have increased their dividends.

Middlesex Water (MSEX) from $.17 per quarter to $.1925 per quarter.
AT & T (T) from $.463 per quarter to $.47 per quarter.
Emclaire Bank (EMCF) - a local bank from $.22 per quarter to $.24 per quarter.

I just love it when stocks increase their dividends. All of my stock dividends are re-invested in more stock. More dividends buying more and more stock!

Don't forget that you only have 6 weeks or less to get your 2014 IRA contributions in - if you haven't done so already.


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## clovis

Michael W. Smith said:


> A few of my stocks have increased their dividends.
> 
> Middlesex Water (MSEX) from $.17 per quarter to $.1925 per quarter.
> AT & T (T) from $.463 per quarter to $.47 per quarter.
> Emclaire Bank (EMCF) - a local bank from $.22 per quarter to $.24 per quarter.
> 
> I just love it when stocks increase their dividends. All of my stock dividends are re-invested in more stock. More dividends buying more and more stock!
> 
> Don't forget that you only have 6 weeks or less to get your 2014 IRA contributions in - if you haven't done so already.


I think I love increased dividends more than anyone on the planet.

I've been holding AES. When I bought it, the company was mired in unbelievable debt, and a new management team was trying to carry the utility out of an Enron type of structure. They were so deep in debt that many doubted that it could survive.

They were paying no div when I bought it. The first dividend was 3 cents a share, I think. Last year, they raised the div to 5 cents, and recently raised it to 10 cents.

None of it is earth shattering money, but it does add up over many years. I was recently figuring those increased divs, and those pennies, here and there, will enable me to buy a few more shares.

I feel blessed to have picked some of these companies with rising divs!!!


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## MoonRiver

Friday and today were enough to take bake all my gains for the year!

Everyone knows interest rates are going up, so why the huge sell off?


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## tarbe

MoonRiver said:


> Everyone knows interest rates are going up, so why the huge sell off?


Fear and greed are the emotions that drive the majority of any major market move, IMHO.

In today's move....fear. Fear of being standing when the music stops.


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## tarbe

clovis said:


> These oil stocks are mighty tempting.
> 
> COP is boasting a 4.5% div and a P/E of less than 9. It is currently near a 52 week low.
> 
> What do you all think of COP and oil stocks?



A lot of folks are thinking the same thing. I believe it is going to be gang-busters when the oil supply finally gets in balance and the price starts rising consistently.

LINE and LNCO pay monthly dividends and while the share prices have cratered with the oil price, they are still paying about 10%, based on today's low share price. Great time for a buy and hold I think.

I have bought a lot of LNCO as the price cratered. I plan to hold these shares for monthly income in retirement. The share price is less of an issue...so long as this stock pays me enough every month to pay the bills (and it is right now, even at the lower payout rate supported by $50 oil).


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## Michael W. Smith

So, who here is making out on the Heinz buying Kraft deal?

Not I.

It closed at $61.33 per share on Tuesday and closed at $83.17 on Wednesday.

Wow!


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## clovis

I am, but I'm not sure how I feel about it.

I know that you won't believe this at all, but on Monday evening, I was looking at KRFT again, and thought "I need to place another order for KRFT in the morning." I got busy, and forgot about it until Wednesday. No kidding, that is a true story. I wouldn't have made a fortune, but it would have been a welcome profit.

Now for the new merger: I think I will get assigned shares in the new company. Heinz doesn't pay a dividend, and I am in this game mostly for the dividends. 

Should I keep the new Heinz stock, or sell it when I get it? I might hold it as long as Warren buffet holds his. He is no dummy. 

What other major food companies are out there? I hold some shares of BGS, but they are a smaller player that seems to pick up dying brands when they are offered up for sale. K, maybe? Could they be next in line to be bought?


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## Bret

Remember when I said I bought a few educational shares of KRFT, even going against Warren Buffet? I like him and respect him but by the time I know what he did and react I am at the end of the whip. I looked and felt dumb, but I wanted the company. They spun off Mondelez, which I held and it became worth more then the KRFT. Does that suggest a possibility, Clovis? I have Campbell's because I like soup and their familiar cans from my youth. They are struggling a little and that makes them interesting to me. I always struggle.

Regularly buy things that make me look and feel dumb. I am downright stupid at this moment with Weight Watchers and RDEN. 

I continue to get schooled. 

Learning is my goal. The tuition is a little expensive.


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## clovis

Very well said, Bret, and very well written.

I am beginning to believe that sometimes, the best stocks to buy are those that are being beat down by everyone and their brother.

Take LLY, for example. Eli Lily, the pharmacutical company in Indianapolis, IN. They are a 'small' player in the market. They are a hometown favorite for me, but in 2009, you couldn't find a soul anywhere that liked them. This was my first 'big time' buy, and for quite a while, after buying LLY, I felt pretty stupid.

Seemed that all the experts could say was that LLY was facing a patent cliff, lost revenues, potential cash crunch, failed drug test studies, no innovation, etc., and not to buy their stock. Lots of 'experts' said to buy GSK instead.

I'm feeling pretty smart right now.


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## InvalidID

I bought oil drillers (more than one) right before the price fell off a cliff. I managed to pretty much hedge my losses with some oil shorts, but all the same I got schooled and how.
Now my thinking is to hold on a little longer and see who gets bought up and hope I'm holding one or two of those when it happens. Not a real good strategy, hold and hope....


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## Bret

Wow, thank you Clovis. LLY is on my list. Have not stepped in yet. Used to go by the Lilly lake estate on my way to the cottage with my grandparents when I was little. 

I expect to be wrong the first step... two or three. I would appreciate your thoughts on it from time to time on it.

What do Hoosiers know about pharma anyway.


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## Bret

InvalidID said:


> I bought oil drillers (more than one) right before the price fell off a cliff. I managed to pretty much hedge my losses with some oil shorts, but all the same I got schooled and how.
> Now my thinking is to hold on a little longer and see who gets bought up and hope I'm holding one or two of those when it happens. Not a real good strategy, hold and hope....


Grinning. It can be lonely when you feel like you are the only one at the outpost. Time has a way of making you look better if the fundamentals are there. Hold on.


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## Bret

Have we all been wiped out?


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## MoonRiver

One of the best I have owned this year. Up a little over 5.5%, but I added to it a couple of times. Any guesses?


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## frogmammy

I could tell you what it's NOT. :doh:

Mon


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## MoonRiver

I bailed on almost all my long positions. I had 1 good winner and I sold half of it, so I only have about 3 long positions and a couple of shorts. What's everyone else doing?


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## InvalidID

I'm unwinding a Euro short currently, but that's all I've got going. Took a beating in the oil sector earlier this year.


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## treesaw

I'm new to trading stocks. I've had mutual funds for a while. I recently purchased some shares of PGH...Pengrowth Energy. Any thoughts?


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## MoonRiver

How much lower will it go?

Does oil bottom at $25?

Does S&P bottom at 1800?


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