# 46mpg air cooled VW



## HermitJohn

This isnt same article I mentioned in HMV thread, but must be about same guy in Hawaii, just by a different magazine. I think maybe this article from 1980 is from an earlier stage of his experimentation. Anyway:

http://www.southernvolksfolks.com/tech/46mpg.html

Notice this guy didnt use any exotic parts or special coatings or miracle gadgets, or high tech anything, he just used his brain and collection of existing parts. A good shade tree mechanic should be able to read the info and reproduce the effort, well assuming these parts are still available and he has a good engine case to work with, etc... Air cooled VW engines used to only be second to small block chebbies in amount of aftermarket parts available. But that was a long time ago.


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## HermitJohn

Here apparently is a utube about this car. I have dialup so.... [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J06wnaEMvu4[/ame] Tell me if its worth me downloading to watch.


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## OntarioMan

About 3 minutes long, and 95% is watching and listening to the engine run - it looks and sounds like most every other air cooled VW motor - the last 15 seconds is text of some of the build parts. Hardly worth it.

I had many VW bugs when I was a young man - most were 68-75 or so. Perhaps one of the worst handling small vehicles I've ever driven and they are dead terrible in winter climates. VWs were not exactly reliable, but they were extremely easy to repair, quick to repair, and at least at that time, cheap to repair. They were a very fun vehicle to own.



HermitJohn said:


> Here apparently is a utube about this car. I have dialup so.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J06wnaEMvu4 Tell me if its worth me downloading to watch.


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## HermitJohn

Thanks for heads up on the utube. I wont bother, have heard air cooled vws before. Not a big thrill.

The most interesting part of the utube was one comment somebody left. Apparently this guy by 1981 (in yet another article that I couldnt find) got 55mpg out of his vw. He actually went for smaller bore and longer stroke engine which makes sense to get yet more low end torque and less friction. Hmm, wonder what longest stroke 1600cc or less vw engine one could make with mix and match stock parts? Are there any modern gasoline long stroke 800cc to 1600cc engines of any kind out there in any application?

And somebody mentioned the Mexican Beetles unofficially imported in 80s. Some of them had a 5spd overdrive tranny. Something else I didnt know.


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## Michael Kawalek

Couple of very important points here. The guy used careful design ideas to optimize the engine for performance, such as the ratio of piston width to bore stroke. Secondly, he emphasized using a small car with a light frame, even lighter because it didn't have a water cooling system. Finally, he drove at 55mph for his milage determination. Everybody can get significantly better milage if they just slow down and drive conservatively.

The gist,
improve efficiency
reduce weight
slow down

Michael


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## mightybooboo

OntarioMan said:


> About 3 minutes long, and 95% is watching and listening to the engine run - it looks and sounds like most every other air cooled VW motor - the last 15 seconds is text of some of the build parts. Hardly worth it.
> 
> I had many VW bugs when I was a young man - most were 68-75 or so. Perhaps one of the worst handling small vehicles I've ever driven and they are dead terrible in winter climates. .




Gee OM,NOT my experience at all.And they are SUPER snow cars,put chains on and they go where 4 wheel trucks fear. They come out in droves up here in the winter,second only to the other REAL good snow car,the Subarus.

I laugh as I drive by the NEW 4 wheel trucks in the snowbanks while my 1965 bug pushes thru with ease.

As for handling,add 235-75-R15 in back,an aggressive tread,add a nice soft road tire up front,like a 215 Michelin,and a rear axle compensator in back so the axle doesnt tuck up,like 65 bucks



,and you have a Porsche in handling.No joke.Increase the cc's to 1776 or 1835,add dual carbs and you have power that will pull hills you cant believe.Ive astounded 4 wheelers with that too.

I raced a friend in the desert offroad in his SUPER 4wd Ford truck.I was cruising relatively comfortably but didnt want to push it and kill myself;his wife said they were terrified and would never try that again,LOL.

All in a lowly bug.One of the best designs ever,thats why they sold millions,they work and with little mods REALLY WORK.


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## mightybooboo

What a super engine,and quiet too.I also dont use stock VW muffler tubes,a real muffler makes it a different car.

I want my next engine built by them,what a BEAUTY!


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## OntarioMan

Long stroke - as in the stroke is longer than the bore? I'd assume there are many - I think the Mazda 1300 found in the Festiva is one of them ??

I suppose a fairly "efficient" beer-budget vehicle could be built easily by taking a modern, fairly aerodynamic front-wheel-drive vehicle and cutting off everything behind the front doors - and installing a single rear wheel/suspension from a motorcycle. No, not an Aptera - but a cheap, lightweight city/urban 3-wheel vehicle similar in concept. I've no idea what the rear half of a small 2-door car weighs, but I'm guessing 300 lbs - so a 1500 lb car would be down to maybe 1200 lbs. 



HermitJohn said:


> Thanks for heads up on the utube. I wont bother, have heard air cooled vws before. Not a big thrill.
> 
> The most interesting part of the utube was one comment somebody left. Apparently this guy by 1981 (in yet another article that I couldnt find) got 55mpg out of his vw. He actually went for smaller bore and longer stroke engine which makes sense to get yet more low end torque and less friction. Hmm, wonder what longest stroke 1600cc or less vw engine one could make with mix and match stock parts? Are there any modern gasoline long stroke 800cc to 1600cc engines of any kind out there in any application?
> 
> And somebody mentioned the Mexican Beetles unofficially imported in 80s. Some of them had a 5spd overdrive tranny. Something else I didnt know.


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## OntarioMan

Southern California - I do envy that. Around here, there is so much rust that any car 20 years or older is next to impossible to find. Any VW bug around here is a collector car. I could count the number of old bugs I've seen this summer on one hand. When I was into bugs, they were everywhere - and folks used to give me their old non-working bugs - I think I had 6 bugs at one time and probably enough parts to build 6 more - long gone are those days.

I will say that the bug was/is a very versatile design - and I suppose with enough money and time, it could be made into whatever you'd like it to be. 

As it relates to fuel efficiency, I don't know that the bug ever excelled in that area - and spending a fair amount of money and time to achieve 46 mpg in a air cooled bug is somewhat of a waste of time - since you could get that kind of efficiency in an almost stock Suzuki Swift, Pontiac Firefly, Geo/Chevy Metro, some Hondas and maybe even the Ford Festiva or Toyota Echo - and all of these cars are more cargo practical than a bug - and at least for me, far easier to find and find parts for. My bone stock 93 Mazda 323 got real world 35 mpg on my last tank, and thats city driving.

The air cooled bug engine does have some fairly unique advantages - its air cooled and fairly low physically - but not very powerful nor very efficient in stock form.




mightybooboo said:


> Gee OM,NOT my experience at all.And they are SUPER snow cars,put chains on and they go where 4 wheel trucks fear. They come out in droves up here in the winter,second only to the other REAL good snow car,the Subarus.
> 
> I laugh as I drive by the NEW 4 wheel trucks in the snowbanks while my 1965 bug pushes thru with ease.
> 
> As for handling,add 235-75-R15 in back,an aggressive tread,add a nice soft road tire up front,like a 215 Michelin,and a rear axle compensator in back so the axle doesnt tuck up,like 65 bucks
> 
> 
> 
> ,and you have a Porsche in handling.No joke.Increase the cc's to 1776 or 1835,add dual carbs and you have power that will pull hills you cant believe.Ive astounded 4 wheelers with that too.
> 
> I raced a friend in the desert offroad in his SUPER 4wd Ford truck.I was cruising relatively comfortably but didnt want to push it and kill myself;his wife said they were terrified and would never try that again,LOL.
> 
> All in a lowly bug.One of the best designs ever,thats why they sold millions,they work and with little mods REALLY WORK.


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## HermitJohn

Now if I can stay logged in more than 5 seconds......

I am not at all suggesting ancient VWs are answer to anything. My point with the article is that its not expensive nor does it take high tech to greatly increase gas mileage. What the gentleman in the article did to get his car up into 40mpg area is doable by any good shade tree mechanic. 

As to Festiva engine, yes slightly undersquare engine. Stroke is slightly longer than diameter of bore. Also known as the Mazda B3 engine. Just rebuilding one to stock factory specs is a pricey adventure and there is little aftermarket support for them. I remember on my Festiva, just a head gasket was some crazy price. I suppose if you are an expert machinist and can custom make parts you need, might be an option to modify. One fo those properly modified could probably get considerably better than 50mpg, but gonna cost to do it.

I was thinking more of a two cylinder engine in range I gave with a significantly longer stroke than bore. 

And yes you can go downtown and buy a new Kia Rio that they are shouting on tv gets 44mpg and costs less than $10k, but again what does one learn from that except how to make monthly payments. I am trying to point out that you should be able to get considerably better mileage in car like that as its lighter and engine considerably more modern than an ancient VW. As to the others on your list most are less common than VW Beetles. They are treated as throw aways and in northern areas sure they rust out quickly. But I am sure you can patch one if you want one and are happy with a mere 40mpg.


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## OntarioMan

Spend some time at http://www.metrompg.com or http://www.ecomodder.com for some real world Suzuki clone (like the Metro) numbers - and almost everyone there is on a beer budget and a shadetree type mechanic - trying all kinds of low cost "experiments" to squeeze every last drop out of a gallon of gasoline.

I suppose which used/older vehicles are available to hacks like us, and their price is a regional thing. For me, a Metro (and parts) are relatively easy to find for low money. For you, maybe cheap Ford Escorts are everywhere - who knows.

Ironically, rust on late model vehicles is both an advantage and a disadvantage. Disadvantage in that it makes it more difficult to find a good car - advantage in that it equates to near free parts.

I'd certainly agree that it does not take high-tech or boat loads of money to build a highly fuel efficient vehicle - lots of folks already have.




HermitJohn said:


> Now if I can stay logged in more than 5 seconds......
> 
> I am not at all suggesting ancient VWs are answer to anything. My point with the article is that its not expensive nor does it take high tech to greatly increase gas mileage. What the gentleman in the article did to get his car up into 40mpg area is doable by any good shade tree mechanic.
> 
> As to Festiva engine, yes slightly undersquare engine. Stroke is slightly longer than diameter of bore. Also known as the Mazda B3 engine. Just rebuilding one to stock factory specs is a pricey adventure and there is little aftermarket support for them. I remember on my Festiva, just a head gasket was some crazy price. I suppose if you are an expert machinist and can custom make parts you need, might be an option to modify. One fo those properly modified could probably get considerably better than 50mpg, but gonna cost to do it.
> 
> I was thinking more of a two cylinder engine in range I gave with a significantly longer stroke than bore.
> 
> And yes you can go downtown and buy a new Kia Rio that they are shouting on tv gets 44mpg and costs less than $10k, but again what does one learn from that except how to make monthly payments. I am trying to point out that you should be able to get considerably better mileage in car like that as its lighter and engine considerably more modern than an ancient VW. As to the others on your list most are less common than VW Beetles. They are treated as throw aways and in northern areas sure they rust out quickly. But I am sure you can patch one if you want one and are happy with a mere 40mpg.


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## greg273

Not sure why this is news, my 82 diesel Rabbit gets between 45 and 50 mpg.


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## HermitJohn

This is NOT A DIESEL. This is an old VW Ghia (2000lbs??) with an old GASOLINE AIR COOLED CARBURETED 1600cc engine. No computers. Thats why its 46mpg and apparently year later with further modifications, 55mpg, is news and interesting. How many 2000 pound gasoline cars are you familiar with that get 55mpg at 55mph, even modern ones that are computerized up the wazoo? Then remember this car is circa 1968!

In comparison, my 1989 Ford Festiva (1500lbs) with 1300cc gasoline engine topped out at 44mpg though might have hit 50mpg with a 5 speed. I think the later fuel injected versions with 5 spd did top 50mpg. However with simular tweaks that the guy in article did, a Festiva should get at least 60 to 70mpg. Its a much lighter weight car. Matter of fact I think its quite possible. Unfortunately as I pointed out, B3 engines are not financially friendly to take apart and tinker with. Usually when I get hold of a used engine or used car I take the head off and face and lap the valves. Not on the Festiva, cant remember now but was some crazy price, like $80 just for a head gasket. Nope, not financially friendly at all. And I cant think of simular small oversquare engine that is cheap to play around with. My guess maybe one of those VW air cooled engines that have been modified to two cylinders for ultralight airplanes might be a possibility, but they aint cheap though they are lightweight like under 90 pounds.


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## greg273

HermitJohn said:


> This is NOT A DIESEL. This is an old VW Ghia (2000lbs??) with an old GASOLINE AIR COOLED CARBURETED 1600cc engine. No computers. Thats why its 46mpg and apparently year later with further modifications, 55mpg, is news and interesting. How many 2000 pound gasoline cars are you familiar with that get 55mpg at 55mph, even modern ones that are computerized up the wazoo? Then remember this car is circa 1968!
> 
> In comparison, my 1989 Ford Festiva (1500lbs) with 1300cc gasoline engine topped out at 44mpg though might have hit 50mpg with a 5 speed. I think the later fuel injected versions with 5 spd did top 50mpg. However with simular tweaks that the guy in article did, a Festiva should get at least 60 to 70mpg. Its a much lighter weight car. Matter of fact I think its quite possible. Unfortunately as I pointed out, B3 engines are not financially friendly to take apart and tinker with. Usually when I get hold of a used engine or used car I take the head off and face and lap the valves. Not on the Festiva, cant remember now but was some crazy price, like $80 just for a head gasket. Nope, not financially friendly at all. And I cant think of simular small oversquare engine that is cheap to play around with. My guess maybe one of those VW air cooled engines that have been modified to two cylinders for ultralight airplanes might be a possibility, but they aint cheap though they are lightweight like under 90 pounds.


 Hey, I had an 88 Festiva! Loved that car, got about 240,000 miles out of it until the camshaft came apart from its pulley. Sold it for parts to a guy with another 88 Festiva. 
Now I hear Ford is going to start selling the Festiva in the US once again? Any truth to those rumors?


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## SolarGary

greg273 said:


> Now I hear Ford is going to start selling the Festiva in the US once again? Any truth to those rumors?


Found a couple mentions of the Ford Fiesta on Autoblog Green, but not Festiva -- same car?

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/01/14/ford-testing-the-fiesta-in-michigan/

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/0...ord-to-show-concept-version-of-fiesta-replac/

Gary


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## HermitJohn

The Ford Fiesta sold in USA was little car Ford imported from its subsidiary in Europe back in 1970s. Supposedly German but think most were made in Spain. 1600cc, manual tranny only, meant to compete with VW Rabbit of that era. Decent enough little car but think there was problem with the head cracking due to thin casting or something.

The Ford Festiva sold in USA was made by KIA of South Korea (back when KIA was independent, it went bankrupt and is now a division of Hyundai) and used the B3 Mazda engine. Sold like 1988-1993 then replaced with different model, but same drivetrain through 1997 then discontinued by Ford. Then sold as KIA RIO for few more years with bigger engine and lower gas mileage before Hyundai (who bought KIA) replaced it with their own design and Mitsubishi design engine. Saw ad on tv that KIA dealer selling a KIA RIO now that they are bragging 44mpg again. I dont know but would guess its the low end Hyundai model with somewhat smaller engine???? As they are advertising the smallest Hyundai on tv getting only 39mpg.


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## OntarioMan

IMO : any of the 1990s cars which get 35+ mpg stock are a great investment - especially considering their low cost and the rising cost of fuel. Some of these small "econobox" type vehicles, which includes the Ford Festiva, make great urban vehicles.

Ironically, some of the "el cheapo" 90s econoboxs have stood the test of time, and are a bit "legendary" with regard to being durable. The Festiva, some of the Suzukis, some Mazdas and Hondas, etc. So if you're looking for a cheap highly efficient vehicle, they do exist without plunking down lots of coin - and you don't have to modify anything to start realizing the fuel savings.

A bit of a warning : be sure to have insurance quotes on any of these econobox vehicles - as some cost a small fortune to insure. In my area, Hondas are not a good choice since they're high on some "theft risk" list - making insurance rates sky high.


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## WisJim

I remember those VW articles when they first came out--I should still have those issues of HOT VWs magazine around, too. I recall that the ideas worth considering from his work were careful assembly of the engine, careful balancing of it, heavy flywheel, and other simple but time consuming "attention to detail" kind of work.

Our 1971 VW Super Beatle could get 40mpg on the highway with 4 of us in the car, if it was recently tuned and I drove at 55 to 60mph. The Karman Ghia was heavier but a bit better streamlined.


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## mightybooboo

The best I do in my VW's is 25 mpg. Bug,Truck,up or down hills,I get an average of 25 mpg.

So I dont consider it a GREAT mileage vehicle,but good mileage and low cost to maintain means I like them a LOT.


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