# Arizona Property?



## mpwithem (Oct 25, 2012)

My husband and I are looking at moving back to Arizona. We used to live in the Tucson area and want to move closer to Prescott/Flagstaff.. We are talking about settling down and staying permanently where ever we move so I don't expect to buy land immediately but I do want to move to a part of Arizona where I would be able to find decent land for decent prices and be able to have a good homestead. 

Clearly soil is a big factor in homesteading and while I can always treat my soil and wait until it's healthy enough to grow what I want, I would rather be able to find land that's suitable from the start. It doesn't have to be perfect but suitable. 

I don't expect many answers to this but I've been trying to do some research and no avail. Thanks for those that try to help!


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## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Sorry, I got nothin for the north  I've got "the dirt" on west of Phoenix though.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Our first homesteading experience was near Flagstaff and it seemed that everything was very overpriced. We ended up with acreage waaaay out on a forest service road that we had to snowmobile in to in the winter. We had to haul water and it was a pretty daunting experience.


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## mpwithem (Oct 25, 2012)

That's great to know Lisa!!


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

I think I might look between Flagstaff and Williams. There sure is a lot of land that way, I think the soil would probably be better.

Just depends on if you have to work or can retire If you have to work that may not work out so well then.

Good Luck


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## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Pearl B said:


> I think I might look between Flagstaff and Williams. There sure is a lot of land that way, I think the soil would probably be better.
> 
> Good Luck


This is what Lisa in Idaho was referring to. I lived in Williams and the ground water is trapped under a thick layer of rock. You can't drill for a well, and the roads outlying are NOT maintained one bit. We didn't even have a school bus. 
If you can't afford the more desireable flagstaff, AVOID. Ash Fork is cheap, but it's literally hours from anything (talk about frontier). And I'm not sure well water is reliable there either. 

What about camp verde? Payson? Globe?


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Ive always wanted to live outside of Williams. Beautiful rugged country. I figured with the way it snows up there, there would likely be water. 

I used to work with a guy that grew up in Williams. He said they had a ranch, and I thought he said growing things there wasnt too bad.


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## PistolPackinMom (Oct 20, 2012)

We were considering Oro Valley. Any thoughts on that?


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## mpwithem (Oct 25, 2012)

I love Oro Valley but the soil there is mostly sand and rocks. I might be thinking of the area around Tucson but I haven't looked behind the mountains.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Have you checked out the Patagonia, AZ area? We used to spend time down there and it's very different from most of Arizona. Beautiful grasslands and lots of wineries. Sometimes we stayed at the Circle Z Ranch and sometimes just took our bikes down to ride in the area.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Pearl B said:


> Ive always wanted to live outside of Williams. Beautiful rugged country. I figured with the way it snows up there, there would likely be water.
> 
> I used to work with a guy that grew up in Williams. He said they had a ranch, and I thought he said growing things there wasnt too bad.


We had tons and tons of snow but we had no water that was drillable. Hauling water is no fun at all. Water accessability became a dealbreaker in later land deals for us. I would never recommend buying land that requires hauling water.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Thanks Lisa,
I thought it was different there. I wouldnt buy where I had to haul water either!


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## Daniel T (Oct 13, 2011)

Interesting....I have 20 Aces in the Snowflake area I can't give away. Personally I am trying to get out of Phoenix and up to South/Central Utah. The Williams area is georgeous. Someone prior mentioned Patagonia. Been there, absolutely beautiful. I don't think you could go wrong in either place though Williams would be easier to escape from. Huntingis better there too.

Just my $0.02 worth.


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## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Daniel T said:


> Interesting....I have 20 Aces in the Snowflake area I can't give away. Personally I am trying to get out of Phoenix and up to South/Central Utah. The Williams area is georgeous. Someone prior mentioned Patagonia. Been there, absolutely beautiful. I don't think you could go wrong in either place though Williams would be easier to escape from. Huntingis better there too.
> 
> Just my $0.02 worth.


Williams IS a great hunting destination--- BUT sustainable water is non negotiable to me, and should be for most homesteaders. 
Even as a 14 year old kid I LOVED the country for long walks with my dog-- best part of living there. 

Everything else, not so much. In fact don't move there with school aged children, period unless you homeschool. The public system is garbage and the social climate was horrific. If they were smoking pot from bongs in the middle of the road in front of the HS on lunch 15 yrs ago I can only imagine how bad it is now. 

And for the love of bankruptcy court NEVER open a business in the downtown.


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## metzgermeister (Aug 7, 2012)

Daniel, you could give it to the wife and I! We are looking to move to Arizona from Ohio so we are in the same boat, looking at land and trying to figure what will work the best for us.


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## buttonwillow (Jul 31, 2010)

I'm interested in Arizona as a place to retire. I'm favoring Wickenberg at the moment. Two things I can't find out about: soil composition and ground water. 

Wickenberg is near the Hassayama River, which, although some of it flows underground, would seem to me to be a possible point in its favor, as the ground water in east Wickenberg would be charged with this river water, especially in good years when snow and rainfall in the Bradshaw Mountains was good. Am I wrong?


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## hilarybennett (Mar 4, 2013)

why not contact the Dept of Agriculture and talk to someone there, and see if they can tell you the areas that are conducive.... If anyone would know, they would.


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## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

buttonwillow said:


> I'm interested in Arizona as a place to retire. I'm favoring Wickenberg at the moment. Two things I can't find out about: soil composition and ground water.
> 
> Wickenberg is near the Hassayama River, which, although some of it flows underground, would seem to me to be a possible point in its favor, as the ground water in east Wickenberg would be charged with this river water, especially in good years when snow and rainfall in the Bradshaw Mountains was good. Am I wrong?


I am about 20 miles directly south of Wickenburg. 
Soil comp is very do-able as far as I know- but takes a good bit of amendments, but really, I don't see a whole lot of hay farming going on up there like there is down in my neck of the un-woods in Tonopah, Buckeye and Harquahala. 
Water is going to be drilled well water and I *think* it's ok. 

The comment about the Hassayampa had me in stitches though. :hysterical:
The whole thing is a dry riverbed people use for ATVs, 4 wheeling and dune buggies. I think it's only had running water in it 3 times in the nearly 4 years I've lived here and half of that was just the first year because we had a cuh-razy monsoon season--- Hassayampa's entire purpose is a gully for monsoon drainage. 
Dry as a bone. Desert trees don't even grow on the banks. No snowfall, and just runoff from rainfall until the sandy earth sucks it down. 

If you want a river that ambles, check out the Gila River in the Rainbow Valley area of Buckeye. 
It isn't much as far as most people are accustomed to in rivers, but it flows and even offers a little Tilapia free for the netting since it's a nuisance fish. 

Wickenburg property is also a bit spendier. It's main "demographic" is designed for a cowboy minded retirement community. Cutesy downtown, itty bitty DMV, decent feed store and a safeway. All other business for Wickenburg is conducted in the city of Surprise-- a very posh corner of Phoenix. 

Buckeye is more of a working class farm town that's been supported with local agriculture always. VERY backyard farm/homestead friendly. No DMV office, but if you're of a mind to avoid the city as much as possible it's simplicity itself to accomplish in every other way. Good doctors with local practices, even an emergency room right there in town. (No hospital care near wickenburg at all.) Half the vehicles on the road are pickup trucks. 
Very affordable property, and it only gets cheaper the further west of town you're willing to go.


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## buttonwillow (Jul 31, 2010)

Dusky, I'm happy to get your information. I will certainly take your suggestion and look in the Buckeye area.

My point about the Hassayama is that it is reputed to be a running river, almost entirely underground. Is that not the case? Doesn't it run underground? If it does, one would imagine (as I do) that it is charging ground water and thus make it possible to grow shrubs and trees which send down very deep roots. But if there are no native trees in the area, then my supposition is mistaken. And since it IS a run-off area for winter rain/snow from the mountains, then, theoretically, it should be possible for a landowner to harvest run-off as well. I know water harvesting will be absolutely necessary for desert living. Proximity to natural sources of water, seasonal or not, is one of the things on my mental list of things I'm looking for, for the purpose of harvesting.

I looked in Wikipedia for Buckeye and it mentioned a number of planned communities in the offing. Is this someone's wishful thinking? I live in a condo complex and have had enough of homeowners' associations. I would never move into a planned community, but the construction of same, it seems to me, would push up property prices. The kind of living you describe in Buckeye at present is what I'm looking for.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

buttonwillow said:


> I'm interested in Arizona as a place to retire. I'm favoring Wickenberg at the moment. Two things I can't find out about: soil composition and ground water.


I lived 60 miles west of Wickenberg for more than a decade, in Salome.

I've heard that the town of Wickenberg draws well water from the Hassayampa river bed, but I haven't seen it for myself. What I can tell you is that wells in Salome are pretty deep. Residential wells are in the 250 to 300 foot range, and agricultural wells are in the 500 to 600 foot range. Most people in Salome live in Indian Hills, a subdivision with mostly 1/4 acre lots and mobile homes, and get their water from a local water company (Keaton Development).

Wickenberg itself has become pretty trendy, so property is pricey for the area.


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## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

buttonwillow said:


> Dusky, I'm happy to get your information. I will certainly take your suggestion and look in the Buckeye area.
> 
> My point about the Hassayama is that it is reputed to be a running river, almost entirely underground. Is that not the case? Doesn't it run underground? If it does, one would imagine (as I do) that it is charging ground water and thus make it possible to grow shrubs and trees which send down very deep roots. But if there are no native trees in the area, then my supposition is mistaken. And since it IS a run-off area for winter rain/snow from the mountains, then, theoretically, it should be possible for a landowner to harvest run-off as well. I know water harvesting will be absolutely necessary for desert living. Proximity to natural sources of water, seasonal or not, is one of the things on my mental list of things I'm looking for, for the purpose of harvesting.
> 
> I looked in Wikipedia for Buckeye and it mentioned a number of planned communities in the offing. Is this someone's wishful thinking? I live in a condo complex and have had enough of homeowners' associations. I would never move into a planned community, but the construction of same, it seems to me, would push up property prices. The kind of living you describe in Buckeye at present is what I'm looking for.


The Buckeye "planned communities" are basically developers buying 50 or a hundred acres, putting identical houses on them with 5 feet between dwellings, building a fence around it and selling the houses for 200k or so. A lot of these only got the fences up before the housing crash :gaptooth: and they aren't located in very prime locations for the homeowners (next to a 5000 cow dairy operation for example...) 
We have one that is considered part of Tonopah called "Tartesso", that is a mini city of nothing but houses, a school (that the district is considering shutting down) and a public park right smack in the middle of the desert 5 miles from the nearest gas station and 15 miles from the nearest town. 
They really don't make a whole of of sense, and the investors keep having to slash prices to get people into them. 

The area is very sprawly, so if you buy smart according to the google map, you're in no danger of being overtaken by shopping centers. Frankly, the cotton and hay fields and dairy farms probably make a lot more money as they stand than the goofy luxury real estate market. 

Water down this way is aquafur sourced, and there's a lot of it. I suspect that this is where the "runoff" drains down. 
If you have a well, you're good. If you run your well on a solar panel, you're even better. 

Your best way to guesstimate ground water, is to google earth corners of the map, and look for old homestead sites with pockets of massive trees.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

buttonwillow said:


> Dusky, I'm happy to get your information. I will certainly take your suggestion and look in the Buckeye area.
> 
> My point about the Hassayama is that it is reputed to be a running river, almost entirely underground. Is that not the case? Doesn't it run underground? If it does, one would imagine (as I do) that it is charging ground water and thus make it possible to grow shrubs and trees which send down very deep roots. But if there are no native trees in the area, then my supposition is mistaken. And since it IS a run-off area for winter rain/snow from the mountains, then, theoretically, it should be possible for a landowner to harvest run-off as well. I know water harvesting will be absolutely necessary for desert living. Proximity to natural sources of water, seasonal or not, is one of the things on my mental list of things I'm looking for, for the purpose of harvesting.
> 
> I looked in Wikipedia for Buckeye and it mentioned a number of planned communities in the offing. Is this someone's wishful thinking? I live in a condo complex and have had enough of homeowners' associations. I would never move into a planned community, but the construction of same, it seems to me, would push up property prices. The kind of living you describe in Buckeye at present is what I'm looking for.


I remember the Hassayampa (which does flow underground and the name actually means upside down IIRC) flowing above ground at the Nature Conservancy site near Wickenburg. I thought it was wet there most of the time.
I love Wickenburg and spent a lot of time there but it is very pricey. If I went back to AZ that is probably a place I would really consider.

You might check out Waddell which is nestled against the east side of the White Tanks.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Dusky Beauty said:


> The Buckeye "planned communities" are basically developers buying 50 or a hundred acres, putting identical houses on them with 5 feet between dwellings, building a fence around it and selling the houses for 200k or so.


Well, Buckeye is no longer an outlying community. It's part of the Phoenix metro area in every sense.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

You might want to look over by Willcox in Cochise county. Lower population and there is still some land with minimal imposed conditions.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Don't yall worry about illegals?


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

SHow Low/Springerville is pretty nice. Snowflake is very pretty, but I think it gets lots of snow in winter, and a short growing season.
Be aware, it has a large LDS population.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

TedH71 said:


> Don't yall worry about illegals?


In the decade I lived in the valley and in Flagstaff, I never had any issues with "illegals" or any people of Mexican heritage at all.


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## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

TedH71 said:


> Don't yall worry about illegals?


Worry about them doing what, exactly? :indif:
I have my own problems to worry about, they need to look after themselves. :grin:




Nevada said:


> Well, Buckeye is no longer an outlying community. It's part of the Phoenix metro area in every sense.


Bedroom Community, yes. Part of the metro..... eh..... not exactly.
Phoenix Metro *starts* in Phoenix and starts to thin out towards the west. Avondale and the eastern part of Goodyear are city-ish yes. Goodyear properties quickly spread from little half acre lots, to 2 and 5 acre ranchette lots with horse and livestock zoning, then the majority of Buckeye neighborhoods copy that model except for the very old downtown houses, and the planned housing developments. 
If you haven't been down here recently, I can understand the confusion. The metro used to be exploding in all directions until the housing bust, and the expansion FROM the metro pretty much halted to date. 
Any growth in Buckeye has pretty much been in support of the locals' business. A few of the city houses still get finished here and there but they are certainly being sold at a huge loss for someone. 

Waddell is one of my favorite areas for "town". It's sandwiched between Goodyear and Surprise and it's all irrigated livestock zoned lots-- houses are a little "ranch style ritz". Nice neighborhood. High median house price though. 

Palo Verde is my other favorite, it's a little corner out of the valley about 10 miles west of Buckeye surrounded by hay farms-- big trees. A little church, an elementary school and a post office open only 3 hours a day. 

I love driving the MC 85 hwy. I'd almost believe I was driving through Nebraska if not for the heat, the mountains on the horizon, and the palm trees dotted around the farms. 

Anyway, lots of nice areas that adapt well to small scale homesteading, and the laws are pretty favorable. 

This is a nice one for someone that wants to be a little isolated. I rubberneck at it every time I go by! LOL! No neighbors next door, and a little hay field across from the front door. 
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/75-N-397th-Ave-Tonopah-AZ-85354/64620439_zpid/


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## buttonwillow (Jul 31, 2010)

My head is spinning from the recommendations.

Since I intend my next home to be the one I live in for the rest of my life, I have to consider the possibility of suburban expansion from a nearby city. The recession won't last forever (unless it does) and if it doesn't, then I don't want to be caught up in a "land grab" by way of the extension of the city limits. In twenty years time Buckeye, or any of the small towns in the greater Phoenix metro area, could be swallowed up. This is one reason I initially favored Wickenberg, as it is so far from Phoenix.

I'm not one of these people who wants to be isolated and live five miles from the nearest neighbor. I want to have neighbors and be relatively near a small town that has the usual public services, which I may be in more need of as I grow older.

Golden City Muse, I am acquainted with Show Low and Snowflake, but I don't want to live so far east and don't care for the colder winters there. I'm going to limit my research, for the moment, to the central-western part of the state.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

Might look at the Tonto Basin, and Deer Creek/Rye/Gisela, all northeast of Phoenix. The Sunflower area isn't bad either. Land is not exactly _cheap_, but it's less expensive than other areas. Snow is possible in winter, but it melts pretty quickly. It's marginally wetter in summer due to more monsoon rain. 

If you look in the Tonto Basin area, be aware the community is bisected by Tonto Creek. There's no bridged crossing. Tonto Creek can flood to the point where crossing by civilian vehicle is impossible, and the current's _way _too fast for a boat. (The community has a large military troop transport that can generally make it across, iirc.) You also want to make sure your home is above the flood plain. It is possible to find lots that are partially above the flood plain, so you can build your house where it will stay safely high and dry and the lower parts of your lot might flood once decade or two, so they'd be fine for animal pens or gardening most years. Epic floods do not happen without warning, if you're paying attention. 

The locals can be a bit insular at times, but it's like any small town -- it takes awhile to fit in. You won't be the only other retiree in the area, either. (Just be aware that there's an element of a good ol' boy network operating in the background, and they don't always like outsiders.)

None of these towns will ever become large metro areas. They're surrounded by National Forest. Phoenix has pretty much expanded as far up the Beeline Hwy as it can go, too. 

Nearest communities are Payson and Fountain Hills or Mesa, AZ. 

Payson has most of what you might need for general shopping, a few doctors, and most major services. The Metro Phoenix area is close enough for anything Payson doesn't have.

Lake Roosevelt is nearby and has very good fishing.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Beeline Highway is the main route in and out. It can be closed by snow, mudslides, wild fires, accidents, etc. At that point, you may have to take very long detours to get around the problem.

(ETA: Don't confuse Tonto Basin with the _community _of Tonto Creek, which is east of Payson, and various other Tonto-named things in N. AZ.)


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

You might want to take a look at the situation in the Safford area if you haven't already done so, NE of Mt. Graham in a valley that US 70 runs along. Has a small community college with an impressive public display of pottery artifacts from nearby native cultures. Originally a Mormon farming settlement, iirc. DW and I stayed at a B&B there a couple of years ago and found it not exactly a tourist mecca, more a deteriorating older community with the housing crash having hit the area, but that might make older houses with a bit of land still affordable, and there look to be new construction setups under foreclosure now, too. Roper Lake State Park looked like a very nice spot for camping or small cabin rental, even though the small lake itself is artificial. You can use even that map function in the Zillow link a couple of posts up to go over to that area then zoom down and see properties and prices in the area. Might run a bit colder in winters than you're wanting, though, not sure, sort of high desert plains area, not mountains.


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## Katskitten (Aug 5, 2010)

:Sigh I came here thinking about posting a question about real estate and found this thread.. Making me homesick. I moved to Phx in 78 and met my husband there. He was basically raised in the Phx area since he was about 7. For some reason I consider that area home, more than where I was raised. Thanks guys for all the input. At least if we do get back out there we will know more of what to watch out for. We moved back to the Midwest due to family in 98 and got stuck here.. Ah to move back. 

Elaine


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## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Katskitten said:


> :Sigh I came here thinking about posting a question about real estate and found this thread.. Making me homesick. I moved to Phx in 78 and met my husband there. He was basically raised in the Phx area since he was about 7. For some reason I consider that area home, more than where I was raised. Thanks guys for all the input. At least if we do get back out there we will know more of what to watch out for. We moved back to the Midwest due to family in 98 and got stuck here.. Ah to move back.
> 
> Elaine


Ugh. Trade you. This is my situation just about exactly... only I am a duck out of water down here among the saguaros. :Bawling:


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## Katskitten (Aug 5, 2010)

Dusky Beauty said:


> Ugh. Trade you. This is my situation just about exactly... only I am a duck out of water down here among the saguaros. :Bawling:


The weird thing is that I grew up in the Midwest and now to get out of this depressed area and get a good doctor we are looking at moving back to my home state and I have rebelled at the idea for along time. 
When I moved there in 78 I fell in love with the desert and all the amenities I had there in the valley area. I know it has changed but I sure would not mind being able to check it out again thoroughly. We even looked at the Camp Verde area and Prescott. If we had the money I would probably choose that instead of where we are currently looking. Joe has even been offered a job there in the Prescott area if we cold find a place to move to. 
But finding a place when one is 1200+ miles away is not easy.

Elaine


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

Now, if I won the lottery, this is the Arizona property I would buy in a heartbeat. It's completely surrounded by national forest and at the base of Arizona's Mogollon Rim -- it's about a mile from my fathers home (which is much more humble, LOL.) 

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/E-Fr430-Route_Payson_AZ_85541_M10380-69350

Do take the electronic tour. 

Gorgeous place. Lots of business opportunities. The land is actually really reasonably priced. (And I'm not sure anyone could subdivide it -- code requires two roads in and out due to fire danger in the spring if you have more than a certain density of homes. There's only one road in.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

And here's a lot in the same area that's slightly less spendy and that I really like: 

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/41-Majestic-Elk-Lane_Payson_AZ_85541_M23445-38916


(I actually know where this lot is located. It's literally around the corner from where I'll be living. You'd have really nice neighbors. Ellison Creek at this point is perennial MOST years though it may dry up when it's really, really been dry. It really gets roaring when summer thunderstorms come through, though!)


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## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

Katskitten said:


> The weird thing is that I grew up in the Midwest and now to get out of this depressed area and get a good doctor we are looking at moving back to my home state and I have rebelled at the idea for along time.
> When I moved there in 78 I fell in love with the desert and all the amenities I had there in the valley area. I know it has changed but I sure would not mind being able to check it out again thoroughly. We even looked at the Camp Verde area and Prescott. If we had the money I would probably choose that instead of where we are currently looking. Joe has even been offered a job there in the Prescott area if we cold find a place to move to.
> But finding a place when one is 1200+ miles away is not easy.
> 
> Elaine


DH needs to be close-ish to Phoenix for his work-- he's a current EMT working at a mental health clinic (hoping to move to a hospital ER first chance he gets) and in school to progress to paramedic. 

We are pretty off the beaten path of the city 50 minutes out, and I like that a lot. I'd love it if I was surrounded by hay farms on all sides, but I've got a good lot with a good well. The place next door with the fancy craftsman house is going up for sale next year, and I'm a little worried that the next neighbor across the fence won't be as nice as the one I have, but fingers crossed. 

I like Camp Verde as far as AZ goes. If I really enjoyed the desert though, Casa Grande is a nice town--- it's isolated a bit between Phoenix and Tuscon, but has all the shopping and amenities of the city. Extremely farm friendly (hay is reasonable, they grow a lot there too). Just drove down there to pick up a goat and had a nice chat with the gal who lives there--- fast turn over on the properties in that area. Seems like a lot of people feel the same.


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

A factor to research in Arizona if you are looking at moving and will have to pay for your own health insurance: the rates vary wildly from one county to another, meaning they're reasonable in the counties with cities such as Phoenix, Tucson, Sierra Vista, probably Flagstaff... but watch out if it's a more rural area especially with a Native American presence. The demographics that include more diabetes, hbp, obesity, alcoholism, tobacco use and such translate to doubled (maybe more?) insurance rates. I'd urge asking questions first so you will know if you need to follow various county lines for property searching practicality.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

I live about 20 miles from Casa Grande.

It is a very nice small town, but they don't allow livestock within the city limits, for the most part. Not everyone realizes this, and it's not an issue unless a neighbor complains. Neighbors, unfortunately, do complain. But otherwise a nice town, with historic buildings in the old part, and arts festivals and a farmer's market and parades and stuff. There's a few really neat stone buildings and I seem to remember seeing some nice Craftsman type homes one time when I was looking for a yard sale. 

The surrounding rural areas have growing issues with smuggling -- human, drugs, people and -- going southbound -- guns. It's always been an area popular with smugglers (probably since prehistory, humans being humans) but the last year there have been a lot more issues. 

I've always felt that the if you ignore the smugglers, they'll ignore you, because they don't want a fuss, but that's not necessarily true any more -- the smugglers are under more pressure, there seem to be more of them, and there's a lot of factors changing the dynamic out here. It's still not a huge issue, but it does make me nervous at times. (And I would NOT recommend anyone who's hispanic move to this area -- the authorities will assume you're illegal and treat you as such. I've had a number of hispanic friends leave the area in the last several years due to constant harassment.)

One important point if you like to hike or ride your horses -- It is NOT SAFE to hike or travel in the mountain preserves/blm/national forest/state trust/etc. land around here. I _personally_ know people who have been confronted at gun point or chased by smugglers when they got too close to somebody's cache of weed.

That said, the soil is very fertile and great for gardens IF YOU HAVE THE WATER FOR IT. It's typically sandy, and no-till growing works really well. Pocket gophers make for good target practice with an air rifle, rabbits can be fenced out, and there aren't many other critters that will eat your garden, which is nice. 

You WILL need a well in most outlying areas, and that can be a problem -- depending on where you're at, the wells can be several hundred feet deep and may be brackish and highly mineralized. (I moved my garden every few years due to salt build up in the soil.) Sharing a well with multiple neighbors is common, but do ask about the flow rate on the well and do the math to see if the well will be productive enough to support gardening. It's smart to buy a lot with a productive well already in place because there's no guarantee there's water down there. (And test it for flouride and arsenic and other nasties before drinking it!) 

Summer temps are 110 plus commonly, winter temps are below freezing more often than the Phoenix area. There's enough freezing hours for many desert-adapted fruit trees.

Air pollution can be nasty at times.

And as Dusky said, there's plentiful very, very high quality alfalfa. Bermuda is your other option (more expensive) and timothy is very hard to get. Hay is expensive, but it's good stuff. 

It's probably some of the least expensive land in the state.

- Leva



Dusky Beauty said:


> DH needs to be close-ish to Phoenix for his work-- he's a current EMT working at a mental health clinic (hoping to move to a hospital ER first chance he gets) and in school to progress to paramedic.
> 
> We are pretty off the beaten path of the city 50 minutes out, and I like that a lot. I'd love it if I was surrounded by hay farms on all sides, but I've got a good lot with a good well. The place next door with the fancy craftsman house is going up for sale next year, and I'm a little worried that the next neighbor across the fence won't be as nice as the one I have, but fingers crossed.
> 
> I like Camp Verde as far as AZ goes. If I really enjoyed the desert though, Casa Grande is a nice town--- it's isolated a bit between Phoenix and Tuscon, but has all the shopping and amenities of the city. Extremely farm friendly (hay is reasonable, they grow a lot there too). Just drove down there to pick up a goat and had a nice chat with the gal who lives there--- fast turn over on the properties in that area. Seems like a lot of people feel the same.


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## rafter (Feb 26, 2003)

We stayed in the Wickenburg area the past 2 winters. Great in the winter, but not cheap. Electricity is not cheap. The wells seem to be good as there is abundant ground water. I'm saying because all the rain water that they do get soaks directly into the sand. Never saw any water run in the river outside of about a 2 mile stretch south of wickenburg, must be a spring that surfaces and then goes back in....it is just a wet spot and a trickle...not really moving water.

What really gripes me about it is the high price of gas. It is always about 50 cents more there than down at Surprise. Lack of shopping..Safeway and a few Dollar stores is it. Tourists shops are the highest I have ever seen. Most dealing with cowboy memorabilia.

Prices of real estate also high compared to the Phoenix area.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

rafter said:


> We stayed in the Wickenburg area the past 2 winters. Great in the winter, but not cheap. Electricity is not cheap.


Yes, Wickenburg has become gentrified for sure. Not priced for homesteaders.



rafter said:


> What really gripes me about it is the high price of gas. It is always about 50 cents more there than down at Surprise. Lack of shopping..Safeway and a few Dollar stores is it. Tourists shops are the highest I have ever seen. Most dealing with cowboy memorabilia.


Walmart wanted to build in Wickenburg, but the town resisted. There was so much political trouble over it that Walmart eventually dropped the project.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

Many years ago...like 25, I thought Wickenberg would be the perfect small town to homestead outside of. The next time I was there was more than two decades later for a mental health conference at one of the MH centers there...quite the change- no more small town really, lots of stucco and modern living. Kind of sad.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

Cygnet- How come I had no idea you were in the area? Gosh, it must be brain damage from all those harsh winters in Montana.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

I don't think where I live comes up that often. I can only think of five of us regulars who live in the state -- you, Wolf Mom, Dusky & Lazaryss, and me. 

But howdy, neighbor. 

(I'm moving north east of Payson in a few weeks -- it'll be an adventure. I was born and raised in the desert and while I'm familiar with the Payson area, I've never lived there -- just vacationed. Snow? Snow? What do you mean we need an eight foot fence to keep the elk out? BEARS? Oh my.)

- Leva



sisterpine said:


> Cygnet- How come I had no idea you were in the area? Gosh, it must be brain damage from all those harsh winters in Montana.


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## Celticfire35 (Apr 3, 2013)

Hi, 

I read your post and would like to give you my thoughts. We lived in Tucson for many, many years. We currently live in Sierra Vista, actually about 15 minutes away toward Palominas. I have to say that I was totally fed up with the city and heat and dirt, etc. Anyway, it's about 10-12 degrees cooler here, it rains often enough to keep down dirt, it has snowed 5 times already this year and the soil is great for planting! Now, here's the pitch....lol. We have 8 acres we've decided we are not going to keep. It's in 3 Canyons where all of the properties are at least 4 acres. It's a corner lot with maintained roads and the views of the mountains are awesome. If you're interested at all, let us know and we can send you pics and more information. Thanks.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

I know a real estate agent that lives in the Palominas- nice couple. Showed me a place in Elfrida. I love the payson area too but the cost to water is too high for me. The place I am yearning for near Klondyke as water at a couple of hundred feet which is right in my price range...and very few of those prickly things!

I always loved the Williams area too but again the water issue  Huge aquifer but very deep.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

My father's sharing a well with two neighbors in the Payson area. It was quite expensive to put in. It's very good water, though -- more than sufficient for irrigation and hydroponic gardening.

(ETA: One thing I'll mention about the Payson area that sometimes comes as a culture shock is the idea of "Payson Time." The well driller started in the fall, then left his rig there all winter. Sometime around the next summer, he came back and finished. That's Payson Time.)


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## PThomas (May 20, 2012)

We lived in Surprise for 7 years until the depression hit. The Valley is not really a homestead area. Lots of mud hut houses that all look the same with postage stamp sized back yards surrounded by cinder block fence. You are totally dependent on Air Conditioning, the water company, home owners association, etc. If you get out in the desert be prepared for scorpions, rattle snakes, the occasional gila monster, large spiders dust storms, etc. Even in town scorpions can be a problem. My daughter and boy her boy friend lived in Tempe and had to check the bedroom every night with a black light for scorpions. The ground is very hard and full of cal-leachate. Very difficult to garden. You will need tons of organic matter. I not saying it isn't beautiful there. It depends on what you want to do. The hiking is fantastic.
If you really want to move back there buy a camping trailer or motor home and spend 3 or 4 weeks traveling the back country. There are lots of places to boondock free of charge. After selling we boondocked at Vulture Peak out by Wickenburg for a month. We then traveled 9 months and decided to build a homestead in Indiana for which we are not selling and heading to Montana.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

Eh, you can have a vegetable garden in the valley, you just need to know how, and what grows. 

I've grown some respectable veggies in caliche soil. For sandy areas, no till gardening seems to work best. Knowing what amendments to add, how much, where to plant, and when to plant, and what will grow, is all an art form. But it is definitely possible to have a big, successful, vegetable garden IF you have the water for it.

Some examples from a few years ago:





































The Payson area, where I'm going to be moving to, has more of a four season climate and is easier for growing things. However, it has its own gardening issues ... Do be sure to watch the video with your audio on. :shocked:

https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=2328319185255

(Credit to my father, and his web cam for the video.)


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

*cough* "Sierra Vista - Bisbee - Tombstone" *cough*


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

Celticfire35 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I read your post and would like to give you my thoughts. We lived in Tucson for many, many years. We currently live in Sierra Vista, actually about 15 minutes away toward Palominas. I have to say that I was totally fed up with the city and heat and dirt, etc. Anyway, it's about 10-12 degrees cooler here, it rains often enough to keep down dirt, it has snowed 5 times already this year and the soil is great for planting! Now, here's the pitch....lol. We have 8 acres we've decided we are not going to keep. It's in 3 Canyons where all of the properties are at least 4 acres. It's a corner lot with maintained roads and the views of the mountains are awesome. If you're interested at all, let us know and we can send you pics and more information. Thanks.


I have a life-long friend in that area with a lot of rural property for sale, too.

For more reasonable prices and similar weather, one can skate east a few miles into New Mexico. We live in sight of Arizona and have none of the headaches from invasive government that is invading Arizona and all of the weather benifits. LOTS of land for sale, enough water, good soil in the bottom of the San Simone valley, and very sparse population.

Don't imagine, however, that one is going to go in the hay business anywhere in the Southwest on a shoestring. Homesteading is fine, but you can only irrigate about 5 acres with a household well. Water rights for irrigation don't come with the land, and probably cannot be bought.

Some pictures on our home page
www.thingswestern.com
....Joe


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

PThomas are you "not" selling and moving to Montana or are you "now" selling and moving to Montana from Indiana? If you are - that is quite the trip. One I have driven a few times. Pretty till you cross the great plains then just rolling hill after rolling hill.


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## whiskeyhorse (Dec 26, 2008)

check out Cave Creek, AZ and the town next to it, Carefree, AZ. Both cool towns 40 minutes north-ish of Phoenix.


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## amygrimis (Oct 17, 2011)

I know this is a bit old, but Parks (between Williams and Flagstaff) is where we lived last year and absolutely loved it. There are parcels that already have wells dug, we never had any trouble with ours (except for that one time I accidentally forgot to shut the hose off to the horse trough ...). It is also in that area that we would hightail it if we needed to before we moved from Arizona.


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