# missing plane



## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

the plane has been intercepted by china and forced to land there radios were jammed so no signals they were forced below the radar cover down to about 300 feet radar cant see them.. they are in china somewhere. if they augured in then there would be all kinds of stuff on the water same with an explosion. we can jam radio signal since the 60's . the water is only 300 feet deep and satellites can see to the bottom they haven't found the plane. the only thing is they were forced below the radar and forced to land in china. I doubt weather North Korea has the equipment to pull this off. now I may be wrong but if a plane goes down it doesn't not spread stuff everywhere.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Is this your belief or has it been reported by a reliable source?


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

I have been thinking since yesterday that the plane had been hyjacked and taken down to fly under the radar.

Spy satellites show no evidence of an explosion


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## mrs whodunit (Feb 3, 2012)

I definitely have the feeling that we are being fed a line about that plane.

With the technology we have nowadays, a plane just doesn't fall off the face of the earth without somebody knowing.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Almost 2 days and nothing? Something is up.

Matt


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

this is my theory but right after I posted this the news talking heads started to speculate similar stuff.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

mnn2501 said:


> Is this your belief or has it been reported by a reliable source?


and by the way my speculation is as good as yours and I am reliable maybe more so than anything out there at the moment


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

I have flown out of that airport several times, security is not good.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Ambereyes said:


> I have flown out of that airport several times, security is not good.


it may of been hijacked but how do you stop radio communications a Jammer strong enough is fairly large and weighs about 200 pounds if you remember the old A6 they had a radio jammer in the vertical stabilizer it was used to distract radio guided missiles.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

Just speculation on my part but a cockpit take down could be the avenue taken. As to a jammer possibility of being loaded with inside help. Just conjecture on my part. I am kinda leaning toward catastrophic failures in comms and navigation. Plane deviates flight plan. The search may need to be widened.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

It's a 777.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

I'm glad to see you post further on that this is just sheer speculation on your part. But I have some questions:



davel745 said:


> the plane has been intercepted by china and forced to land there radios were jammed so no signals they were forced below the radar cover down to about 300 feet radar cant see them.. they are in china somewhere. ......


How a could a big 777 passenger liner be flown any distance under the radar at 300 feet elevation? I don't believe it is even remotely possible.

More importantly - what possible reason would China have to do something like that?


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Paumon said:


> I'm glad to see you post further on that this is just sheer speculation on your part. But I have some questions:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the 777 would fly easily at 300' as to the reason why I don't know just speculation based on flight time china is the closest


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I listened to 2 well educated Pilots, they both have only guesses, so guess away. Maybe they have Obamas real birth certificate.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

*Paumon *i have a question. if the plane crashed were is the debree field


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

davel745 said:


> *Paumon *i have a question. if the plane crashed were is the debree field


I'm not going to speculate about it - there are far more knowledgeable experts doing that already and many people using highly advanced equipment searching. I'll just wait and see what the experts and the searchers conclude.

If nothing is ever found and if I was going to speculate about it then my speculation that the same kind of thing happened to it as what happened to all the planes and boats that went missing inside both the Bermuda Triangle and the Dragon's Triangle would be just as good a speculation as anyone else's. There's a very old, long-held theory that there is a warp field in the shape of a ring that intersects with earth where it enters earth at the Bermuda Triangle and emerges in the Dragon's Triangle in the vicinity of South China Sea. So if that is true then maybe when it was crossing the South China Sea the 777 went to the same place as all those other missing planes. It's far-fetched but just as good a speculation as any other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil's_Sea

:shrug:


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

Wasn't the planes destination in China? Why would a plane be hijacked to somewhere it was already going?


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## Vash (Jan 19, 2014)

Wanda said:


> Wasn't the planes destination in China? Why would a plane be hijacked to somewhere it was already going?


It was going to Hong Kong AFAIK.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

Vash said:


> It was going to Hong Kong AFAIK.



The AP story in my paper says they were en route to Beijing.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Paumon said:


> I'm glad to see you post further on that this is just sheer speculation on your part. But I have some questions:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


maybe switched onto auto pilot ???


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Johnny Dolittle said:


> maybe switched onto auto pilot ???


Not possible at 300 feet. It's not possible for a 777 to fly horizontally for any distance at 300 feet. It couldn't even do it at 1,000 feet. 300 feet is not very high, it's the height of some buildings and low hills, it's just 58 feet over the length of the plane and is practically at ground level for a plane like that.

A humongous old boat like a 777 needs lots of air lift and speed and it can't do that at nearly ground level - it can't labour at low elevation for long and stay aloft. A 777 is 242 feet long and wingspan is 199 feet and its typical cruising speed is 0.84 mach at *35,000 feet*.


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## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

I can't be the only one thinking of that TV show LOST. Here's hoping those folks found the Dharma Village and the Hatch.

Levity over, back to original programming....

Seriously, it could have crashed into the jungles or swamps in VietNam without a trace. Didn't that happen with a plane in Florida's everglades one time?


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one thinking something is funny.

If a plane crashes into the sea - and that is where it was on the radar when it suddenly disappeared - it's going to leave a trace. Jet fuel, debris, etc. Even if the plane didn't break up on impact - windows would certainly break upon impact and things would float up to leave a debris field.

I'm just not sure under the theory of it being hijacked and landing somewhere - HOW such a thing would be done with 200 + people having cell phones, the pilots having radios, etc. and not one single call being made. And are you even able to "turn off" the tracking devices on a plane?

But yeah, something just seems odd hear that a large 777 with 200 + people on it just "disappears".


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-passengers-mobile-phones-ring-not-answered-1439560


The mystery surrounding the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has deepened with the Chinese media reporting that several of the passengers' mobile phones were connecting when called by relatives, but the calls were not picked up.

The sister of one of the Chinese passengers among the 239 people on board the vanished flight rang his phone live on TV, the Mirror reports.

"This morning, around 11:40 [am], I called my older brother's number twice, and I got the ringing tone," said Bian Liangwei, sister of one of the passengers. At 2pm, Bian called again and heard it ringing once more.


http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/b777-pilot-contacted-mh370-before-it-vanished-says-there-was-radio-interfer


"We managed to establish contact with MH370 just after 1.30am and asked them if they have transferred into Vietnamese airspace.

"The voice on the other side could have been either Captain Zaharie (Ahmad Shah, 53) or Fariq (Abdul Hamid, 27), but I was sure it was the co-pilot.

"There were a lot of interference... static... but I heard mumbling from the other end.

"That was the last time we heard from them, as we lost the connection," he was quoted as saying by the New Sunday Times.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2014)

Well , I have no personal knowledge of how low it could fly but if it was over land & roaring along at low altitude it seems as though lots of people would have heard & seen it .


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Just pointing out...it's 209 feet long and 61 feet tall.

Matt


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Paumon said:


> I'm not going to speculate about it - there are far more knowledgeable experts doing that already and many people using highly advanced equipment searching. I'll just wait and see what the experts and the searchers conclude.
> 
> If nothing is ever found and if I was going to speculate about it then my speculation that the same kind of thing happened to it as what happened to all the planes and boats that went missing inside both *the Bermuda Triangle* and the Dragon's Triangle would be just as good a speculation as anyone else's. There's a very old, long-held theory that there is a warp field in the shape of a ring that intersects with earth where it enters earth at the Bermuda Triangle and emerges in the Dragon's Triangle in the vicinity of South China Sea. So if that is true then maybe when it was crossing the South China Sea the 777 went to the same place as all those other missing planes. It's far-fetched but just as good a speculation as any other.
> 
> ...


Hmmm.....I thought it was m/l established science that the Bermuda Triangle problem was caused by large pockets of methane gas exploding. That area has many underwater areas that are cliff-like and sometimes those cliffs collapse, exposing deep caverns loaded with methane. Once released, the methane rapidly surfaces in a large bubble which, when ignited by either a ship or a plane engine, would explode leaving little to no trace of whatever had been there.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Tommyice said:


> I can't be the only one thinking of that TV show LOST. Here's hoping those folks found the Dharma Village and the Hatch.
> 
> Levity over, back to original programming....
> 
> Seriously, it could have crashed into the jungles or swamps in VietNam without a trace. *Didn't that happen with a plane in Florida's everglades one time*?


Yup.

May 11, 1996...Valuejet 592 crashed in the Everglades
"...and the location of the crash itself was a deep-water swamp with a floor made out of solid limestone. *The DC-9 was utterly destroyed on impact, with no large pieces of the fuselage remaining*. Sawgrass, alligators, and risk of bacterial infection from cuts plagued searchers involved in the recovery effort. A group of fishermen witnessed the crash and reported that "The plane was flying in a steep right bank, after which it turned so that the nose was facing downward in a nearly vertical angle. It plummeted into the swamp followed by an explosion, shock wave, and a massive geyser of water." They reported seeing no external damage to the DC-9 or any sign of fire or smoke other than the engine exhaust. A group of sightseers in a small private plane also witnessed the crash and provided a nearly identical account, stating that *Flight 592 seemed to "disappear" after impacting the swamp and they could see nothing but scattered small debris and part of an engine near the crash site*."

cnn and wiki

Matt


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

homstdr74 said:


> Hmmm.....I thought it was m/l established science that the Bermuda Triangle problem was caused by large pockets of methane gas exploding. That area has many underwater areas that are cliff-like and sometimes those cliffs collapse, exposing deep caverns loaded with methane. Once released, the methane rapidly surfaces in a large bubble which, when ignited by either a ship or a plane engine, would explode leaving little to no trace of whatever had been there.


Possibly. But I've never heard of that being established science about the Bermuda Triangle, it's my understanding it's just one of many theories but that there are holes in that theory too. http://www.bermuda-attractions.com/bermuda2_0000a1.htm


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

"thee plane, thee plane"

I think I know where it is!


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Paumon said:


> Not possible at 300 feet. It's not possible for a 777 to fly horizontally for any distance at 300 feet. It couldn't even do it at 1,000 feet. 300 feet is not very high, it's the height of some buildings and low hills, it's just 58 feet over the length of the plane and is practically at ground level for a plane like that.
> 
> A humongous old boat like a 777 needs lots of air lift and speed and it can't do that at nearly ground level - it can't labour at low elevation for long and stay aloft. A 777 is 242 feet long and wingspan is 199 feet and its typical cruising speed is 0.84 mach at *35,000 feet*.


It could be at 300 ft or even lower across water. If the wing creates enough lift to fly for 1 mile it can create enough lift to fly several hundred miles. Fixed wing aircraft are unlike rotary wing aircraft as they are moving so fast, there is no "ground effect" or water effect as you get when being low on rotary wings. A 777 would however not be very efficient as you state, due to the density of the air at sea level. It would be burning an awful lot of fuel at low altitudes. I do think the aircraft is in the ocean and they have just not found it yet. They will find it though. It is a big ocean.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Roadking said:


> Yup.
> 
> May 11, 1996...Valuejet 592 crashed in the Everglades
> "...and the location of the crash itself was a deep-water swamp with a floor made out of solid limestone. *The DC-9 was utterly destroyed on impact, with no large pieces of the fuselage remaining*. Sawgrass, alligators, and risk of bacterial infection from cuts plagued searchers involved in the recovery effort. A group of fishermen witnessed the crash and reported that "The plane was flying in a steep right bank, after which it turned so that the nose was facing downward in a nearly vertical angle. It plummeted into the swamp followed by an explosion, shock wave, and a massive geyser of water." They reported seeing no external damage to the DC-9 or any sign of fire or smoke other than the engine exhaust. A group of sightseers in a small private plane also witnessed the crash and provided a nearly identical account, stating that *Flight 592 seemed to "disappear" after impacting the swamp and they could see nothing but scattered small debris and part of an engine near the crash site*."
> ...


Also the plane that crashed in Penn on 9/11 went into the ground. From what I have read, there was a lot more plane and debris underground than above.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2014)

I have seen some of this on the news . Wasn't there a couple big oil slicks confirmed as being found ? I think I saw a video of the slicks .


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

If it crashed into land it would have been in flames.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

WV Hillbilly said:


> I have seen some of this on the news . Wasn't there a couple big oil slicks confirmed as being found ? I think I saw a video of the slicks .


They did chemical test on the oil slicks, they did not match the lost plane.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

If there are any here that think that large and heavy airplanes can't fly at very low altitudes, watch this video of the large commercial jet low passes.

[YOUTUBE]9ZHqWJDu3eA[/YOUTUBE]


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Paumon said:


> Not possible at 300 feet. It's not possible for a 777 to fly horizontally for any distance at 300 feet. It couldn't even do it at 1,000 feet. 300 feet is not very high, it's the height of some buildings and low hills, it's just 58 feet over the length of the plane and is practically at ground level for a plane like that.
> 
> A humongous old boat like a 777 needs lots of air lift and speed and it can't do that at nearly ground level - it can't labour at low elevation for long and stay aloft. A 777 is 242 feet long and wingspan is 199 feet and its typical cruising speed is 0.84 mach at *35,000 feet*.


they can fly at 300 feet easily and are in ground effect it would be demanding but can be done air speed would be around 250 to 300 knots. a average pilot could do this without crashing. how do they land? they can fly at very low attitude. maybe 15% flaps I don't know if they can use flaps at 300 knots but I don't know what the air speed is for slow flight.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Possum Belly said:


> If there are any here that think that large and heavy airplanes can't fly at very low altitudes, watch this video of the large commercial jet low passes.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]9ZHqWJDu3eA[/YOUTUBE]


thank you


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

homstdr74 said:


> Hmmm.....I thought it was m/l established science that the Bermuda Triangle problem was caused by large pockets of methane gas exploding. That area has many underwater areas that are cliff-like and sometimes those cliffs collapse, exposing deep caverns loaded with methane. Once released, the methane rapidly surfaces in a large bubble which, when ignited by either a ship or a plane engine, would explode leaving little to no trace of whatever had been there.


that is my take too


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Ground effect for a fixed wing aircraft is caused by a cushion of air being forced to the ground and sort of making a cushion to fly on the air is denser and the plane skims along on the cushion of air it is common when landing on a hot day for the hot air to hold the plane off the runway.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

remember when the plane with the lady pilot went straight into the everglades there was still some debris found on the surface and the fuel, she had oxygen canisters that caught on fire or something like that and went straight in


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Add me to the *something's fishy* camp.

But first and foremost, my prayers are with the families. I can't imagine the horror of just not knowing. It makes me physically ill to think of it.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Add to the fact that on Drudge, some passengers' cell phones are still active.

Matt


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## Swoop411 (May 29, 2012)

> *"Military radar indicates that the missing Boeing 777 jet may have turned back before vanishing."*
> 
> _http://news.yahoo.com/why-malaysia-airlines-jet-might-disappeared-213133681.html_


They are probably looking in the wrong place by a considerable margin. If I were forced to venture a guess based on a terrorism scenario I would be looking for it being landed somewhere remote and friendly towards AQ.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Swoop411 said:


> They are probably looking in the wrong place by a considerable margin. If I were forced to venture a guess based on a terrorism scenario I would be looking for it being landed somewhere remote and friendly towards AQ.


Apparently there is much doubt it was terrorism. There was an indication that the plane turned around. Thus, given the right set of circumstances they could have crashed as far away as halfway to Antarctica, since they had 7.5 hours of fuel. Given a "Payne Stewart" type scenario, where everyone was knocked out due to oxygen deprivation or some other such happenstance, that plane may have flown on for hours, apparently undetected.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

davel745 said:


> and by the way my speculation is as good as yours and I am reliable maybe more so than anything out there at the moment


I wasn't saying it wasn't, I thought perhaps you had heard something late breaking that I had not.

When I hear of this I think of the TV show 'Lost': They were 1000 miles off course when they went down.


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

Roadking said:


> Add to the fact that on Drudge, some passengers' cell phones are still active.
> 
> Matt


Well callem and ask them where in the tar nation they are @...:gaptooth:


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

How many times does someone drive off of a road in remote places and are not found for days? The ocean in most places are not very well populated.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

I flew over a commuter crash site and helped video for early investigators. The airplane was brought down by ice while in a holding pattern 

The site, the middle of a harvested cornfield, was not recognizable until right on top of it. My eyes looked for things that I would expect like wings, tails etc., that were not there. I was not prepared. I thought a seven or eight word prayer and buried the details of what I saw in my mind, for the families. I think about it often. 

I am sorry for these families right now who must wait.


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## Becka (Mar 15, 2008)

Was a passenger list released? I'm wondering if any important political or banking/financial persons were on the list. . .


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Becka said:


> Was a passenger list released? I'm wondering if any important political or banking/financial persons were on the list. . .


but I heard something interesting there were 20 electronic experts on board and they could of disabled all the necessary electronics quite easily


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## topofmountain (Nov 1, 2013)

We may never know the truth sadly.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Been hearing on the news that the transponder had been turned off. *If* that is true, it is mighty fishy. There is no need to turn off a transponder unless you don't want to be identified by radar.


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2014)

Just out of curiosity , isn't a possum one of those flat animals that like to sleep on the highway ?


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

I saw my first LIVE possum this year . . . near the road,

but not flattened in it. So now officially spring is here.

(Of course it's now raining and the forecast is calling 

for 5-6" more of snow by this time tomorrow night!)


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

WV Hillbilly said:


> Just out of curiosity , isn't a possum one of those flat animals that like to sleep on the highway ?


Just short naps.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

copperkid3 said:


> I saw my first LIVE possum this year . . . near the road,
> 
> but not flattened in it. So now officially spring is here.
> 
> ...


Them ole groundhogs ain't got a thing on me.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Roadking said:


> Add to the fact that on Drudge, some passengers' cell phones are still active.
> 
> Matt


Matt, I heard a communications guy say just because they were ringing does not mean they were working. He said the phones will ring while the system is searching for a signal.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

You'll hear the phone ring even if the number you're calling is not working, then you'll go to voicemail.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

I have no clue but a lot of theories out there. One expert said a lone terrorist managing to do what the shoe bomber tried could kill everyone on board almost immediately by blowing a basketball size hole in the plane at altitude. Of course, that doesn't explain the transponder being turned off. According to experts I heard, that is not a simple process and would require someone with training and access. If if crashed in the Jungle, it may take years to find it. They are still finding wreckage from the Vietnam War.


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## gweny (Feb 10, 2014)

Possum Belly said:


> Been hearing on the news that the transponder had been turned off. *If* that is true, it is mighty fishy. There is no need to turn off a transponder unless you don't want to be identified by radar.


Turning off IFF is a good way to get shot out of the sky.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

I call a flattened possum, a sail possum you can pick em up and throw them and because they are flat they sail for quite away


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

gweny said:


> Turning off IFF is a good way to get shot out of the sky.


transponders are not iff (identification friend or foe) it is a separate system. 
transponders cause the radar to flair when they detect a sweep. or can send a signal every few seconds.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

I keep going back to the 20 ET's on board


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## gweny (Feb 10, 2014)

davel745 said:


> transponders are not iff (identification friend or foe) it is a separate system.
> transponders cause the radar to flair when they detect a sweep. or can send a signal every few seconds.


My experience is not of planes. Just of radars. Stared at one for 12hs at a time in the navy. My point was if the plane is not transmitting IFF, not responding to hails, and in a certain distance to a navy battleship (like the first one reported to be on the scene) it will be decimated. Just food for thought. A similar situation has happened before. Late 90s I think? We reviewed the tapes in training. It's been awhile, but I remember it was a political disaster for the navy. It might seem like a good idea from the navy's perspective to deny, deny, deny.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

gweny said:


> My experience is not of planes. Just of radars. Stared at one for 12hs at a time in the navy. My point was if the plane is not transmitting IFF, not responding to hails, and in a certain distance to a navy battleship (like the first one reported to be on the scene) it will be decimated. Just food for thought. A similar situation has happened before. Late 90s I think? We reviewed the tapes in training. It's been awhile, but I remember it was a political disaster for the navy. It might seem like a good idea from the navy's perspective to deny, deny, deny.


iff is a military system adapted to military planes. transponders while like iff do not discriminate friend or foe. they cause the radar to flare and send information to the radar.
if the military reacts to a civilian plane because of not receiving iff then they are wrong. this is what happened to the Israeli plane. the indent for each plane is dialed into the transponder as requested by the atc. if you dial in 0000 the transponder is off.


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## gweny (Feb 10, 2014)

davel745 said:


> iff is a military system adapted to military planes. transponders while like iff do not discriminate friend or foe. they cause the radar to flare and send information to the radar.
> if the military reacts to a civilian plane because of not receiving iff then they are wrong. this is what happened to the Israeli plane. the indent for each plane is dialed into the transponder as requested by the atc. if you dial in 0000 the transponder is off.


The transponder transmits a code that comes up as an IFF on the radar screen of a DDG. Atleast that's what was explained to me then. I don't know much about planes other than what ordinance will take them out of the sky.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Always the _Airport 77_ possibility...

*www.imdb.com/title/tt0075648/*

Matt

And, about the cell phones...I thought that's how it worked. I should have paid more attention to my FIL...his family owned and operated several of them.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

fox news is saying they may of found it


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4951966?icid=maing-grid7|vzw-tablet-b|dl1|sec1_lnk3&pLid=453311


Looks like some debris has been found on a Chinese satellite photo.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

apparently there was nothing there when they got to the location the Chinese gave


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## doingitmyself (Jul 30, 2013)

Probably sitting in a hanger somewhere with a load of terrified passengers while the drugs are being off loaded by Malaysian child labours. To me it seems like far too many loose ends to be a simple explanation of a crash. But then again who knows for sure?

Prayers for all touched by this and especially the families of the passengers.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

doingitmyself said:


> Probably sitting in a hanger somewhere with a load of terrified passengers while the drugs are being off loaded by Malaysian child labours. To me it seems like far too many loose ends to be a simple explanation of a crash. But then again who knows for sure?
> 
> Prayers for all touched by this and especially the families of the passengers.



This couldn't be farther from the truth. If there was one gram of pot on that plane, they would of already found it.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Heard on the news today that planes communicate with satellites on their own without human input. Something about maintenance issues, problems, or something. Fox said Boeing reported the plane was still communicating with the satellite 4 hours after it quit responding and disappeared from radar. They suggested it might have been flying on autopilot after those on board were dead. Something like a shoe bomb blowing a hole in the side of the plane could cause it I would guess.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

A bomb that killed everyone on board would have damaged the airplane to an extent that it couldn't, on autopilot, keep flying for long...unless it was a chemical bomb and didn't damage the fusealage.
Too much lack of info going on...and story changes.
I'll wait for the finding of the craft...

Matt


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

You may be right Matt. I don't know but I heard some "expert" on tv say a bomb blowing a hole the size of a basketball in the side of the plane at that altitude would kill everyone almost immediately. A story on Drudge right now says the US believes the plane turned around and flew out over the Indian ocean. If true, it sounds like either terrorism or the pilot wanted to die for some reason.


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

My guess is a psycho pilot or co-pilot.

I've read the cockpit is hard to get into - double doors and reinforced from below.

Terrorists normally take credit for such actions - no word from anyone.

I would say they flew it out in the middle of the Indian ocean somewhere.

Might be a while to find anything - if crashed, debris will be scattered widely by the time we find it - maybe wash up somewhere months later.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Another theory is that the plane landed somewhere, since that plane can land on many runway-like strips. That theory would mean that the hijackers intended to either re-purpose the plane, such as make it into a bomb, or ask for ransoms. But either scenario has problems: no one has taken responsibility for the hijacking and/or no demands for ransoms have come forth. 

Besides that there is the problem of the amount of people involved that the hijackers would have to deal with. Maybe the passengers would just put up with it, but I doubt it. The hijackers would need either a small army or a large amount of sleeping gas to pull that off.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

All they would have had to do is depressurize the cabin to eliminate any issues with the passengers.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

A friend of mine was a pilot for United...good luck getting into the cockpit...it can be done, but according to him, when he closed the door, it stayed closed until he deemed it time to open.
He was also licensed to carry a sidearm on the plane.
IF it was taken, and not crashed, and no one has taken credit for it, it makes sense that it would be used for a future nefarious purpose with the intent of stealth and plausible deniability.

Matt


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Roadking said:


> *A friend of mine was a pilot for United...good luck getting into the cockpit*...it can be done, but according to him, when he closed the door, it stayed closed until he deemed it time to open.
> He was also licensed to carry a sidearm on the plane.
> IF it was taken, and not crashed, and no one has taken credit for it, it makes sense that it would be used for a future nefarious purpose with the intent of stealth and plausible deniability.
> 
> Matt


It was reported that those two---the pilot and co-pilot on the missing aircraft---had allowed passengers into the cockpit before.

But there is also a measure of technical knowledge associated with this mystery, and those in the cockpit may have been complicit.

The scenario about the nefarious use of the plane at some point in the future has numerous problems, not the least of which is the fact that it could not get into US airspace without being shot down, and cannot fly "under the radar" for any length of time (thus they couldn't fly one from North Africa across the Atlantic). However there is always Europe, and I don't know how secure that area is.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Considering that the terrorist are still firing missiles into Israel, why not a plane loaded with something to go bang? They might be able to shadow a known flight and then divert at the last minute leaving no time for a defense. IOW, the blip on the radar might be two planes instead of one. The pilots of the decoy flight wouldn't know the other plane was there if it approached from the rear and positioned itself above and behind.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Darren said:


> Considering that the terrorist are still firing missiles into Israel, why not a plane loaded with something to go bang? They might be able to shadow a known flight and then divert at the last minute leaving no time for a defense. IOW, the blip on the radar might be two planes instead of one. The pilots of the decoy flight wouldn't know the other plane was there if it approached from the rear and positioned itself above and behind.


Hmmmmm...hadn't considered Israel. Yup, they could do major damage to Tel Aviv.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Israel has almost better radar then the USA. I think it would be very hard to sneak up on them.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

davel745 said:


> Israel has almost better radar then the USA. I think it would be very hard to sneak up on them.


The Hezbollah might try to low-fly a plane to the Haifa metro area from Lebanon.

You're right, tho', the IDF and the IAF are probably the most vigilant in the world.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

homstdr74 said:


> It was reported that those two---the pilot and co-pilot on the missing aircraft---had allowed passengers into the cockpit before.


I've also heard it said, the very first hour the plane was in the air, the cockpit would be vulnerable. Something about the crew serving dinners - or beverages and snacks.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

Michael W. Smith said:


> I've also heard it said, the very first hour the plane was in the air, the cockpit would be vulnerable. Something about the crew serving dinners - or beverages and snacks.


So, what good did it do to reinforce the cockpits? You would think keeping it closed would be mandatory.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

As of 11 a.m. CST here's the latest news.. deliberate disappearance.

http://news.yahoo.com/malaysian-leader-planes-disappearance-deliberate-064752321.html


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

oneraddad said:


> http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html


LMAO.:hysterical:


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

My heart breaks for the families waiting for any news. If you think there was foul play do you have any reason to hope the passengers are still alive? Seems like whoever took the plane would have no reason to go through the extra trouble of keeping them alive.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

oneraddad said:


> http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html


In other circumstances that might be funny, but with 200+ people missing and possibly dead it's in poor taste. I have a dark sense of humor, but even I shake my head at that one.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Seems to me that the only unified group eager to make the Chinese mad are the Muslim Uyghurs, who live in the Xinjiang area, which is next to the "Stan" countries such as Kazakhstan, and actually closer in flight time.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

> Seems to me that the only unified group eager to make the Chinese mad are the Muslim Uyghurs


It might not be about making the Chinese mad...motivation is anybody's guess at this point. Even that is premature with the very few facts we actually have.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

jtbrandt said:


> It might not be about making the Chinese mad...motivation is anybody's guess at this point. Even that is premature with the very few facts we actually have.


True, but no matter the motivation, that's what has happened.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

homstdr74 said:


> True, but no matter the motivation, that's what has happened.


Yeah, they're mad at Malaysia...there could be something to that.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

For what it's worth, my dad used to work for Boeing doing avionics on AWACS and all Boeing model planes. He said 777 could def fly under 300 feet. All those planes can get pretty acrobatic--they are way "overbuilt" for flying way outside "normal" flight behavior. He was on a 727 buzzing past the Space Needle skimming the city staying under the ceiling back in the 60's (scared a bunch of folks haha). He was on 727s that they would land and take off of the simulated/practice aircraft carrier pad at Whidbey Island Naval Base. Unlike Airbus that has built in "throttle stops" for all sorts of stuff. Wanna have fun? steal a Boeing!

He sez def knowledgable folks could disable nav and communication and fly "under radar" blah blah (ie military jet fighter types, ya know?). Unlikely the plane is crashed, the black box is very difficult to disable or destroy--they would want to keep it intact so they couldn't be followed/tracked. 

So just saying, def knowledgable people could indeed make a plane fly invisible.


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2014)




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## Junkman (Dec 17, 2005)

If you hijacked a plane with all those folks on it, what would you do with the people?


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

The answer becomes self-evident
if the plane is all they're after . . .

Feeding 239 PBJ sandwiches 3X a day gets old fast.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

that was my thought. If they killed them then they would have to remove them to repurpose the plane. that would be a mess. either way it is a mess. it what leads me to change my mind and think it is crashed into the water


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Well, they couldn't toss them out into the water because that would leave a trail. Either they removed them once on land, or the suicide/disappearance scenario becomes more plausible and the entire plane is at the bottom of the ocean with all crew and passengers.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Boeing thinks the airplane landed in an area of Pakistan controlled by the Taliban.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Darren said:


> Boeing thinks the airplane landed in an area of Pakistan controlled by the Taliban.


Could well be but I would think it would have appeared on a radar station somewhere. The suicide theory of ditching it in the ocean makes no sense to me. Now they are saying it dropped to 5,000 feet to evade radar and with all the other maneuvers it made, that is a lot of trouble to go through for no good reason if you plan to crash it anyway.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Depends on where you want to crash it. It was sort of confirmed on another that the plane could "shadow" another fight and avoid detection by radar. It would take a very skilled pilot.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Darren that's an interesting concept. I wonder if the powers that are checking have checked the flight path of all in the air during the time frame in question.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

poppy said:


> Could well be but I would think it would have appeared on a radar station somewhere. The suicide theory of ditching it in the ocean makes no sense to me. Now they are saying it dropped to 5,000 feet to evade radar and with all the other maneuvers it made, that is a lot of trouble to go through for no good reason if you plan to crash it anyway.


The pilot would have had to get it to a lower altitude where it wouldn't show on military radar if it was hijacked and they planned a surprise later. Israel is taking that possibility seriously.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

So . . . . . . . . . . . . if the pilot or co-pilot decided life wasn't worth it - why go to all the trouble of turning off all tracking devices and taking a different route just to crash the plane in the ocean?

I'm convinced the plane landed safely somewhere.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Michael W. Smith said:


> So . . . . . . . . . . . . if the pilot or co-pilot decided life wasn't worth it - why go to all the trouble of turning off all tracking devices and taking a different route just to crash the plane in the ocean?
> 
> I'm convinced the plane landed safely somewhere.


I am not convinced as you are but that is what probably happened.

*Unless* their best laid plans had a major hick-up and they had an accident carrying out their plan. We may know in the coming weeks or months.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Greta is talking about the emergency locator beacon a satellite link that goes off if the plane crashes. I was wondering about them I have one I wear when I go into the woods to cut firewood as I am alone now. it isn't as suffocated as the ones used on the plane, mine is waterproof and has a lanyard to go around my neck so of something happens I have to push a button. and hopefully someone will come. I believe these are installed on all planes.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

The plane took off at 12:55 AM local time and if it flew 7 hours would have landed 7:55 AM if it remained within the time zone where it departed from... however...

If the plane took off at 12:55 AM and flew north for an hour and then turned and flew into the west for 6 hours it would pass through probably four time zones meaning that the entire trip would have been flown in the dark .... it could have landed in Pakistan possibly around 4:00 AM local time. So the entire hi-jack would have been in the dark hours of the morning.

Estimated flight time to travel by commercial jet from Kuala Lumpur Malaysia to Islamabad Pakistan is 6 hours and 6 minutes based on average flying speed of a commercial jet (500 MPH)


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Johnny Dolittle said:


> The plane took off at 12:55 AM local time and if it flew 7 hours would have landed 7:55 AM if it remained within the time zone where it departed from... however...
> 
> If the plane took off at 12:55 AM and flew north for an hour and then turned and flew into the west for 6 hours it would pass through probably four time zones meaning that the entire trip would have been flown in the dark .... it could have landed in Pakistan possibly around 4:00 AM local time. So the entire hi-jack would have been in the dark hours of the morning.
> 
> Estimated flight time to travel by commercial jet from Kuala Lumpur Malaysia to Islamabad Pakistan is 6 hours and 6 minutes based on average flying speed of a commercial jet (500 MPH)


But that's flying through Indian air space. The IAF has sophisticated radar and a couple of AWACS planes. It's hard to believe that they wouldn't have spotted a bogey that big. Of course, the 777 could have flown "under the radar", in which case it not only would have been reported but would have run out of fuel long before reaching Pakistan.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Darren said:


> Boeing thinks the airplane landed in an area of Pakistan controlled by the Taliban.


?????????


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Darren said:


> Boeing thinks the airplane landed in an area of Pakistan controlled by the Taliban.





Johnny Dolittle said:


> ?????????


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3134274/posts


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

I saw a story this morning that said residents of the Maldives reported a low flying jet over their Islands in the right time frame. Could be it was flying low to evade radar in India as it skirted the coast and landed in Iran or Pakistan. It appears it was a well thought out plan and I would think it had to have several people involved in different countries. I suspect the terrorists have been planning this operation a long time and until we figure out who and how they did it, other passenger aircraft are at risk.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

I'm tired of all the theories being floated out there so I am going to create my own. Supposing it did land in Pakistan or Iran, we have satellite surveillance there because of the war in Afghanistan and drone surveillance, at least in Pakistan. It is conceivable our government already knows where it is but isn't telling anyone because they are gathering intel on the hijackers or are unsure about the status of the passengers yet. They could be continuing with the ocean search so the hijackers don't know they are onto them. They may have kept the passengers alive to use as hostages in case their plan was discovered. If the location of the plane is known, it could be blown up on the ground with cruise missiles if the passengers were known dead.


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## Junkman (Dec 17, 2005)

copperkid3 said:


> I saw my first LIVE possum this year . . . near the road,
> 
> but not flattened in it. So now officially spring is here.
> 
> ...


Killed one in the barn last night. Eating cat food. You don't want to know how. They can be a mean critter when cornered.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

My theory is kinda like poppy's. 
Quite sure the passengers were gassed or O2 deprived & died right away. (a la 'Payne Stewart') Not 1 cell phone transmitted anything?
The pilots or just 1 got a ton of $$$ to take the plane somewhere to terrorists. Possible the 2 guys from Iran w/phony passports & 1 way tickets are in too. 
No terrorist group has taken credit b/c they have not done w/it what they want to do.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/465557/Malaysian-plane-20-on-board-worked-for-ELECTRONIC-WARFARE-and-radar-defence-company?fb_action_ids=10201606489155846&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_ref=s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dfacebook-like&fb_source=other_mult



Malaysian plane: 20 passengers worked for ELECTRONIC WARFARE and MILITARY RADAR firm


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Pure speculation. 
The 777 is sitting in a hanger, being refueled while they wait for North Korea to deliver the nuclear bombs. Then the flight plan is either Israel or Pearl Harbor.
How many camels with Gerry Cans does it take to refuel a 777?

If it were just a terrorist attack, someone would be taking credit for it. No credit, no message, meaningless. But if this is just the first stage of a far bigger plan, the message is yet to come. 

Fishermen reported a low plane near the island where the younger pilot grew up, that morning. Reported it that morning.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

poppy said:


> I'm tired of all the theories being floated out there so I am going to create my own. Supposing it did land in Pakistan or Iran, we have satellite surveillance there because of the war in Afghanistan and drone surveillance, at least in Pakistan. It is conceivable our government already knows where it is but isn't telling anyone because they are gathering intel on the hijackers or are unsure about the status of the passengers yet. They could be continuing with the ocean search so the hijackers don't know they are onto them. They may have kept the passengers alive to use as hostages in case their plan was discovered. If the location of the plane is known, it could be blown up on the ground with cruise missiles if the passengers were known dead.


A retired Air Force general recently made the statement based on his sources that the government knows more than it's saying. That's one of the reasons the Navy stopped its search. Israel has also made some interesting statements. 

The informed believe the plane was hijacked and flown to a hiding place. That means the passengers were probably killed by depriving them of oxygen.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Check out the images here. Plane in water. Plane in Jungle, from sat. images. Real?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...0-flying-low-Gulf-Thailand.html#ixzz2wMy01NEp


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Pakistan


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Could the plane follow close to another plane so it could be disguised until it got near where it wanted to land?
http://mh370shadow.com/post/79838944823/did-malaysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

haypoint said:


> Pure speculation.
> The 777 is sitting in a hanger, being refueled while they wait for North Korea to deliver the nuclear bombs. Then the flight plan is either Israel or Pearl Harbor.
> How many camels with Gerry Cans does it take to refuel a 777?
> 
> ...


the plane holds 32 thousand gallons of fuel so 32000 / 5 = 6400 5 gallon cans I would look for a long line of camels
I think they said 32000 gallons it may of been 17000 in that case it is 3400 cans


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Australia has asked the US Navy to search off the west coast. there may be signs of wreckage.


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## sapphira (Mar 24, 2003)

An interesting take by two 93 year olds - . "The only interesting thing is watching the three stooges on TV try to find a lost airplane. An expert (???) actually seriously said on TV that they have boiled it down to be definitely somewhere on land or the water. I would guess he eliminated the moon as we have not found water there. Anyhow, he got it down to two possibilities and that will make it easier."


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

This sounds about right:
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

"The left turn is the key here. Zaharie Ahmad Shah1 was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time. We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us, and airports ahead of us. They&#8217;re always in our head. Always. If something happens, you don&#8217;t want to be thinking about what are you going to do&#8211;you already know what you are going to do. When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer"


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Lost Plane discovered:


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

The clip of the Mamma crying for her son on the O'Reilly Factor is heart wrenching


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74SbI6AEjNg[/ame]


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

they have found something off Australia ships and planes are on the way


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Did anyone really think that was the wreckage? 
I've heard many say that there's some sort of signal if it has crashed & there was NO crash signal.
I still think all are dead-the pilots or somone who got into the cockpit sold it to terrorists.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> Did anyone really think that was the wreckage?


I posted that I thought it was just whitecaps yesterday.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/7010493-post56.html

I've searched for about 4 hours a day for a week now. Honestly, I wouldn't have tagged them.

We're searching in the southern Indian Ocean now, but when we were closer to Malaysia I was coming across a fishing boat about once per hour. I searched 3,000 images (~100 sq miles) today and didn't come across a single boat or ship. After 4 hours of searching I didn't tag a single object. It's pretty lonely out there.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Yesterday Greta Van Susteren interviewed several experts .... one had a lot of knowledge about where the currents will tend to accumulate junk floating in the sea. West of Australia extending towards Antarctica is one of those areas... 

Junk includes objects fallen from space, cargo fallen off ships, capsized boats and all kinds of debris washed off shore by storms etc.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

they have halon in the cargo bay it is a poison to humans if the halon goes off it is almost over.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

they have found another piece of floating something using a satellite. it is quite large.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

haypoint said:


> This sounds about right:
> http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/
> 
> "The left turn is the key here. Zaharie Ahmad Shah1 was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time. We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us, and airports ahead of us. Theyâre always in our head. Always. If something happens, you donât want to be thinking about what are you going to doâyou already know what you are going to do. When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer"


fwiw my dad's idea of the left turn is per navigation, you have to put in waypoints along the flight and when you don't put in paypoints the computer nav inserts on for you (0,0) which is the equator(0 latitude) on Greenwich (0 longitude), somewhere off western Africa. He had more explanation of "how to screw with nav"--in any case, my dad said "he instinctively knew" (from experience being flight engineer/flight analyst/Boeing avionics guru) that the flight plan/tracking/etc was being messed with. 

And yes Boeing planes do have "VIN numbers" but no sort of fingerprint to identify individual planes. Basic carjacking skillz apply...

Somebody took this plane, and our .gov is crapping its pants. Put your 'lectronics in a Faraday cage, foil up your pacemakers, get out the '58 chevy 

Also getting rid of bodies? Please! BTW Boeing planes are designed to fly well over 45,000 feet. They get very hot...(stuff to do with atmosphere/lack of atmosphere and approaching space).


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

ps, just reiterating if the panes CRASHED the black box would transmit. Those things are built extremely extreme to resist tampering and survive anything short of flying into the sun. The way to "disable" it is to LEAVE IT ALONE. 

I think someone took it, it will be stripped, the passengers will never be found--"Gone in Sixty Seconds" a la jumbo jet. You think stuff is really trick in the movies, all that stuff pales to what is really possible. If that's not what happened well I'll eat my mossy hat haha!


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/missing-plane-transcript-Malaysia-Airlines/2014/03/21/id/561067/

tips on how to steal a plane


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## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

davel745 said:


> they have halon in the cargo bay it is a poison to humans if the halon goes off it is almost over.



Halon is not a poison. It is an inert gas that is heavier than air. Part of the reason that it is used in fire suppression systems. Experience has shown that while it is an asphyxiant to humans, it is only deadly to you if you do not immediately get fresh air at a minimum. I have had to explain to the army WHY halon bottles were popping off for no reason in Bradley fighting vehicles while the crews were driving down the road.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

farmerj said:


> Halon is not a poison. It is an inert gas that is heavier than air. Part of the reason that it is used in fire suppression systems. Experience has shown that while it is an asphyxiant to humans, it is only deadly to you if you do not immediately get fresh air at a minimum. I have had to explain to the army WHY halon bottles were popping off for no reason in Bradley fighting vehicles while the crews were driving down the road.


you just said it is an asphyxiate and is deadly if you don't get fresh air and were do you get fresh air at 35000 feet? and I understand if you breath the powder used you are dead


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## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

davel745 said:


> you just said it is an asphyxiate and is deadly if you don't get fresh air and were do you get fresh air at 35000 feet? and I understand if you breath the powder used you are dead





poison said:


> : a substance that can cause people or animals to die or to become very sick if it gets into their bodies especially by being swallowed


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/poison




asphyxiate said:


> to cause (someone) to stop breathing and often to become unconscious and die





Noble gas said:


> : any of a group of rare gases that include helium, neon, argon, krypton, xenon, and sometimes radon and that exhibit great stability and extremely low reaction rates&#8212;called also inert gas



Big difference from asphyxiate and poison. Fresh air or oxygen. And since planes do have oxygen systems......

Halon systems in general do not have ANY residue. It's also why they are used in systems where electronics are used. No powder or other residue to damage equipment.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Read last eve about the mysterious call to the pilot right b/4 take off-seems it was from one of those untrackable phones bought by a woman who used a made up name...


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

farmerj said:


> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/poison
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 you are just playing semantics. Your quote from the dictionary doesn't say it has to be ingested. if the halon went off there is a good chance it would of killed them. and halon does leave a powder residue and that is why they are changing to nitrogen in computer rooms because halon destroys circuit boards.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

They are saying that they have found peace's of the plane in the ocean


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## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

davel745 said:


> you are just playing semantics. Your quote from the dictionary doesn't say it has to be ingested. if the halon went off there is a good chance it would of killed them. and halon does leave a powder residue and that is why they are changing to nitrogen in computer rooms because halon destroys circuit boards.


Yeah, sure I am.

If you want to get to the nitty gritty of it.

Halon is listed as a NON-FLAMMABLE gas. If there were ANY chance that it would be considered poisonous, it would be classified and required to be labeled as such, nor would it EVER be allowed to be used as a fire suppression agent in an industrial or commercial setting much less in a passenger compartment of ANY mode of transportation. Including air planes.

http://www.h3rcleanagents.com/support_faq_2.htm


https://www.drs.illinois.edu/TransportationAndShipping/Definitions.html




> Division 2.2 - Non-Flammable/Non-Poisonous Compressed Gas â A material or mixture that exerts in the packaging an absolute pressure of 280 kPa (40.6 psi) or greater at 20Âº C and does not meet the definition of Division 2.1 or 2.3. This includes compressed gas, liquefied gas, pressurized cryogenic gas, comporessed gas in solution, asphyxiant gas and oxidizing gas.




Where as you are claiming it is "poisonous".


> Division 2.3 â Gas Poisonous by Inhalation â A material that is a gas at 20Âº C or below and 101.3 kPa of pressure (ambient temperature and pressure), i.e. the material has a boiling point of 20Âº C at sea level and:
> 
> Is known to be so toxic to humans as to pose a hazard during transportation
> Or in the absence of adequate data on human toxicity, is presumed to be toxic to humans because when tested on laboratory animals it has an LC50 value of &#8804; 5,000 ml/m3
> LC50 is the concentration that will cause



http://www.wfrfire.com/msds/pdf/halonMSDS.pdf


> U.S. SHIPPING INFORMATION: This gas is classified as dangerous goods, per U.S. DOT regulations, under 49 CFR 172.101.
> UN IDENTIFICATION NUMBER: UN 1044
> U.S. DOT PROPER SHIPPING NAME: Fire extinguisher with compressed or liquefied gas
> HAZARD CLASS NUMBER and DESCRIPTION: 2.2 (Non-Flammable Gas)
> ...


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

davel745 said:


> They are saying that they have found peace's of the plane in the ocean


Actually, the PM stopped short of saying that they found wreckage. This sounds like more of an administrative decision. The PM just rambled on about what the authorities believe. Honestly, I don't know what to think.

If he took the initiative to tell families that their loved ones all died in the Indian Ocean but it turns out that they didn't, he'll have some explaining to do. I can't figure why he would make an announcement like that ahead of physical evidence. That's taking a terrible chance.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Nevada, I'm thinking the way the relatives were treated at 1st & their reacions, the gov't probably decided this was best-hoping to lay it all at rest...I've got to be a little more convinced tho, like you.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

farmerj said:


> Yeah, sure I am.
> 
> If you want to get to the nitty gritty of it.
> 
> ...


who cares


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## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

davel745 said:


> who cares


Apparently, you did when you got corrected on the matter.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Crash confirmed today.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...dian-ocean-malaysian-pm-says/article17635031/

Malaysia&#8217;s Prime Minister Najib Razak confirmed Monday.

"It is therefore with deep sadness and regret that I must inform you that, according to this new data, Flight MH370 ended in the southern Indian Ocean,&#8221; he said at a sombre, short news conference late Monday night in Malaysia. &#8220;Malaysia Airlines deeply regrets that we have to assume beyond any reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and that none of those on board survived,&#8221; .....

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/25/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-flight-370.html?_r=0


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

its a mess the Malaysian government is worse than ours, not by much but worse.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Paumon said:


> Crash confirmed today.
> 
> Malaysia&#8217;s Prime Minister Najib Razak confirmed Monday.
> 
> &#8220;Malaysia Airlines deeply regrets that we have to assume beyond any reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and that none of those on board survived,&#8221; .....


But yet, here we are 9 days later . . . . . . . and they still don't KNOW what happened, where the plane is, or if it did really crash.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

This entire episode is like something out of Twilight Zone. They are still delving into the lives of the pilot and co-pilot, since the criminal investigation is still active. If a person thinks about it, you could make it out to be a criminal act, actually an act of terrorism. Since the main object of terrorists is to strike fear into the hearts of the public, what act could make the flying public more fearful than this disappearance? You never know when the flight you take might just disappear, never to be heard from again. Add to that the millions or maybe billions of dollars being spent and that will be spent over the next months and maybe years, and that single act of "disappearing" the plane could add up to terrorism.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

homstdr74 said:


> This entire episode is like something out of Twilight Zone. They are still delving into the lives of the pilot and co-pilot, since the criminal investigation is still active. If a person thinks about it, you could make it out to be a criminal act, actually an act of terrorism. Since the main object of terrorists is to strike fear into the hearts of the public, what act could make the flying public more fearful than this disappearance? You never know when the flight you take might just disappear, never to be heard from again. Add to that the millions or maybe billions of dollars being spent and that will be spent over the next months and maybe years, and that single act of "disappearing" the plane could add up to terrorism.


I think you hit on an important aspect of terrorism. Financial input versus financial cost. For the cost of a few plane tickets and a flight school short course, the World Trade Center goes down and we spend billions in useless border and airport security. A $800 station wagon with propane tanks and gas cans parked in Time Square causes panic and millions in added worthless security. a 25 cent phone call to Boston Police with a subway bomb threat shuts down a city causing millions in lost productivity, increased useless security. Pressure cooker filled with fertilizer and fuel terrorizes the Boston Marathon and every event since provides added useless security expenses. 

Perhaps for the cost of a plane ticket, the loss of a plane, hundreds of lives, but add the millions in recovery attempts. US "Eyes in the Sky" have been diverted from Pakistan and Iran and North Korea, to hunt for a plane that we have no trace of.

We cannot win a war by blowing up a $10,000 cave with a $500,000 guided missile. We cannot win a war when the enemy can destroy a billion dollar building and cause us to spend billions in added fake security, while they spend pocket change. 

or maybe they had an electrical fire and lost control of the plane.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

from what I have gathered you cant fly a plane manually at 35000 feet there isn't enough air and a human cant react fast enough, if this is true then, if there was a event like a fire and they pulled the halon or the pressure vessel was ruptured. the pilot may of turned the heading on the autopilot to a new heading towards a close airport and then succumbed to the loss of air and died. the plane then flew on its new heading till it ran out of fuel and crashed into the ocean. similar to the golfer incident. if it happened once then it could happen again.


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## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

> US "Eyes in the Sky" have been diverted from Pakistan and Iran and North Korea, to hunt for a plane that we have no trace of.


Have they?

I haven't seen any satellite images offered by the United States--only China, Austrialia, and other SouthEast Asian countries.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

I kinda wonder about Google.
Someone had to have had a smart phone on that plane, and Google constantly tracks phones by gps. There surely had to be at least one person on that plane with a smart phone and Google account.
If they want to admit it to the general public or not, I bet Google can get into some records and find the last pinged gps location of anyone on that plane with a smart phone.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Tommyice said:


> Have they?
> 
> I haven't seen any satellite images offered by the United States--only China, Austrialia, and other SouthEast Asian countries.


I've been searching through the DigitalGlobe (Longmont, CO) Tomnod program. I know that they have submitted debris images that have been followed-up on during this search effort.


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## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

Is DigitalGlobe a private satellite or does it get its images from a government operated satellite?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Tommyice said:


> Is DigitalGlobe a private satellite or does it get its images from a government operated satellite?


Private commercial imaging company.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

davel745 said:


> from what I have gathered you cant fly a plane manually at 35000 feet there isn't enough air and a human cant react fast enough, if this is true then, if there was a event like a fire and they pulled the halon or the pressure vessel was ruptured. the pilot may of turned the heading on the autopilot to a new heading towards a close airport and then succumbed to the loss of air and died. the plane then flew on its new heading till it ran out of fuel and crashed into the ocean. similar to the golfer incident. if it happened once then it could happen again.


 But, why did they turn both transponders off? (Been so long since any news, I don't remember if that's what they're called!)


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Tricky it is of course speculation but if they were trying to change the code to an emergency indent they may not of completed it. I don't think both transponders are on at the same time one is a back up. I just don't know. but I have been thinking about this incident. I also think the black boxes are lost for a long time if the usa had allowed a submarine into the waters they may of been able to detect the pinger with there sonar. I also question if the plane dropped of the radar why didn't either China or Taiwan try to reach them with there radios


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

If you have an electrical fire, you shut everything off, put out the fire and then try turning each circuit back on, one at a time, checking which circuit failed. You also turn the plane towards the closest airport. One reason for high altitude is less Ox, to put out the fire. Plane believed to run a long way at low altitude. Is there a safety system that prevents putting a plane down without landing gear extended? That could auto pilot long after everyone died from smoke inhalation.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

A Chinese ship detected a "pulse" of 37.5 kilohertz in the search zone. The Malaysian government acknowledged that 37.5 kilohertz is the same frequency emitted by the data flight recorders. 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-370-search-to-soon-become-even-more-difficult/


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

homstdr74 said:


> A Chinese ship detected a "pulse" of 37.5 kilohertz in the search zone. The Malaysian government acknowledged that 37.5 kilohertz is the same frequency emitted by the data flight recorders.
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-370-search-to-soon-become-even-more-difficult/


I'm suspicious of Chinese reports. The news said they only heard the ping for 1 and 1/2 minutes. I would think they could circle the area and pick it up again.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

npr sez the Chinese can't figure out if the frequency coming from on their boat or not. and no positive id on "debri". There are several days until the black box battery runs out. Still fishy to me 

My guess is there will never be a positive id of wreckage, like someone mentioned, a gabillion dollars could be spent on defining "closure" on wreckage that may or may not be some miles down in the ocean--is that a right expense? who will pay?


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Gma this morning reported that an Australian ship picked it up too. Over two hours of hearing it.
Iirc, something like a few hundred miles north of where the Chinese ship picked it up.


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## gweny (Feb 10, 2014)

Signals skip across water and clouds. Trying to find the plane this way really is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
When I was living in Maine I had a HAM tower in the backyard, if the weather was right I could talk to people in Siberia.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

I'm not sure that's the same. Wavelengths bouncing off clouds and soundwaves traveling through water...


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

the problem with water is thermoclines. they can act as a barrier to sound.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

davel745 said:


> the problem with water is thermoclines. they can act as a barrier to sound.


And/or as a deflector, which might account for the discrepancy in the readings.


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## doingitmyself (Jul 30, 2013)

I believe the plane is intact and was stolen parked on some runway number changed, and being outfitted for its next and last mission. Planes don't disappear like this in today's times. Back in the day sure it made sense no trackers, satellites, ect but not with the technology today. I don't buy it for an instant.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

doingitmyself said:


> I believe the plane is intact and was stolen parked on some runway number changed, and being outfitted for its next and last mission. Planes don't disappear like this in today's times. Back in the day sure it made sense no trackers, satellites, ect but not with the technology today. I don't buy it for an instant.


Of course I have wondered about that, too; the downside to that theory is "why would the spy satellites have eyes on an uninhabited and uninhabitable piece of ocean, miles from nowhere?"


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## doingitmyself (Jul 30, 2013)

^^ I believe the spy satellites watch^^^

virtually everything all the time. Please remember nearly every country has spy satellites as well. If they were all linked up and combined footage were examined we could have watched the actual flight in real time. I'm sure there are recorded bits here and there that could shed light on this if one had the desire to make it happen. am not usually partial to conspiresy theory at all. But so much here does not line up. 

I feel so bad for the families that may never have closure concerning their loved ones.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

This is one of those things 20 years from now SNL Weekend Update will report, " Flight MH370 is still LOST. It is believed Ben moved the island again."


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