# Twisted Stomach - Long and sad



## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

Our hearts are nearly broken.

Our beloved 5 year old male dual purpose Pyrenees, Buddy, presented with a twisted stomach on Thursday. At the time we thought he ate something, poison, lots of things ran through my mind. He was bloated, trying to "hide" like a dying animal, whining, snapped at my son, many, many strange behaviors - like when he has diahrea & needs to go outside only 100% worse.

Taking him out of the pasture the other dogs were whining, one steadfast bonded dog tried to stay at his side & almost made it out the gate, whining the whole time. The ride up to the vet he was trying to crawl on our laps from the back seat (no kennel, no truck, I knew it was an emergency with a long ride). I waited for my husband and we drove the 1/2 hour there fearing an accident the entire way. 

To make a long story short, the vet referred us to the animal hospital another 1/2 hour or so away for xrays, we were in agreement he had something big going on. Thankfully I requested pain meds for him.....by the time we got there less than 5 minutes into the wait he was crawling & whining on the floor. 1/2 hour later we got the call from the vet: Twisted stomach, 50/50 chance of survival IF it hasn't been longer than just a few hours, high chance of infection, chance of dying on the table, high chance of bloat after surgery, and even just cutting him open if his stomach was black they would put him down then & there, and a quote of $4200 - $6100. 

After a 45 minutes of deliberating with my 3 adult children, we finally agreed we had no choice but to put him down. Saying goodbye, (the kids never got the chance to say goodbye), we realized he was actually dying before we even noticed: we could see it in his eyes. And hindsight the past 2 days he was snapping at his daughter for no apparent reason, so we knew in our hearts it was time, it had been too long.

On a side note when we got home I had a doe present 1 live doeling, and another dead in the birth canal, I had to go in, untangle, and remove it. It was the longest day of my life-about 6 hours of pure ~fill in the blank~.

We have a huge void in our lives. We never, ever, thought he would not come home with us that night. Not even for one second. He was only 5 and healthy healthy healthy! It wasn't supposed to end that way.

He is to be cremated & will come back to the farm mid-week this week....He would have liked that. My family, well, we are still crying, me mostly but I can tell they are trying to not have me break down-again. He was such a huge part of our family, always there, always protecting, always comforting, always, well, always BUDDY. He was THERE.

This is the second dog we've lost in 2 years. We lost my female pyr to a malignant spiral tumor 2 years ago, and now Buddy to a twisted stomach. We went from 4 dogs down to 2 real quick.

My youngest son took it the hardest, he's the last one living home & they spent a LOT of time together. He wants another pyr right away - dual purpose. Me, well I dont like the feeling of my home being so vulnerable, Hubby wants to wait, and my other sons are offing to make the drives & even pay for half the dog if we get one. I guess when your child asks for something in a situation like this you respond. 

And we will. But I need more information & I need to understand what happened to my beloved Buddy and wonder if there was ANYTHING I could have done to prevent this.

Any information on the subject is most welcome.

HF


----------



## Goat Servant (Oct 26, 2007)

Im truly so sorry for the loss of your beloved Buddy.


----------



## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

I'm SO sorry you lost your beloved Buddy 
In answer to your question about his condition and how it might have come about:
The stomach will bloat in response to things like eating fermenting compost and sometimes for seemingly no reason at all. It is far more common in large breed dogs. Great Danes are fed with elevated dishes for this very reason. Elevating the food, so that the dog eats in a more upright position, seems to help stave off bloat in breeds that are prone to it.

The twisting comes second. A dog can suffer bloat without torsion (no twist) which is sometimes able to be deflated manually and without invasive surgery.
Once there is torsion, the condition will not correct without surgery.
The longer the stomach had been twisted, the greater the likelihood that there is necrosis of the tissue, as the torsion restricts blood flow.

When I worked as a Vet Tech in a small animal emergency clinic, we saw bloat cases often. They are always emergencies and any time we had a patient appear in the clinic with bloat they were triaged immediately, regardless of how many other patients were waiting.

It sounds like the actual bloat happened perhaps as much as 24 hours before you noticed. Pyrs can be so stoic that I'm not surprised Buddy held up showing you he was sick.

Your decision to euthanize was the right one. The amount of damage likely after such an episode is very high. It's quite possible that he would not have survived the surgery, or survived and then died from complications within days.
I know how hard it is, but you made the right decision.

<Hugs>


----------



## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

My deepest condolences to you over this tragic loss.

I can only offer some sidebar advice. I have never lost a dog to bloat and I truly think this is why: they eat 24/7 free choice kibble available at all hours, day and night, they usually if not always LIE DOWN when they eat (this facilitates better digestion), I feed premium quality dog kibble - NO CORN OR FILLERS, my dogs have 24/7 access to CLEAN (ie changed daily if not more) fresh cool or cold water. I also will occasionally moisten their food, which then expands outside of their tummy, not inside.

What does this have to do with bloat? Plenty....

Because my dogs aren't waiting for hours to be fed either once or twice a day, when they eat, THEY EAT SLOWLY, AT LEISURE, NOT RUSHED, and therefore never bolt food down, which means they don't gorge, or have large glops of undigested food sitting in their tummies....rather, they eat small portions ALL DAY....never putting a large stress on the stomach and digestive system. 

My dogs all get exercise, thus, enabling stomach muscles to fully develop to be able to HOLD IN THEIR LARGE GUTS....thus lessening chances of stomach twisting....

Also, if fed raw, they don't get fed such huge amounts that it sits in tummy then when they get up to run, it does not increase chance of twisting gut.

I have to be particularly careful in giant breeds such as my mastiffs. But I have never had a single case of bloat, ever, in a dog, in 30 years of raising dogs and running everything from Catahoulas to Russian Wolfhounds and Pyrenean Mastiffs.

I HAVE had bacterial issues in tummies, that took feeding pro-bios and sulfa drugs to kick. But never bloat. Again my deepest condolences. This happens to so many dogs but IMHO....I think feeding, the way your dogs eat, can help lessen the chances....


----------



## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

I am so sorry you lost your dog  
Once your son and family is done grieving I would make the choice about a new dog. For some it is a way to heal, for others, too soon is a mistake. I am the too soon kind of person. I adopted a kitten too soon after my cat died, I never bonded with her. I felt bad and after 2 yrs I re-homed her and they love her. 

Goatress that woud never work here. Leaving food out, the goats or chickens would eat it, while it is ok for the chickens it sure is not for my goats.


----------



## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

I am so sorry for you loss.


----------



## TJN66 (Aug 29, 2004)

Im so sorry.


----------



## Linsay2231 (May 1, 2011)

I am so sorry :-(


----------



## Charleen (May 12, 2002)

I'm sorry. I just gave my pyr another hug.


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Very sorry to hear this. I agree 100% with Goatress feeding a high quality kibble should help, and you can add a little sunflower oil (my preference) or similar to the food daily (a tablespoon or so) Helps their skin and coat too.


----------



## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

thaiblue12 my friends at Coban Collars www.cobancollars.com have just made a dog feeder for LGD's that is very akin to a nosebag for a horse that you use to feed grain with.

It is made from canvas and leather and is somewhat collapsable. Because the opening is small, enough for a dog but JUST one dog to place its nose in and eat food, the goats do not bother it. They built a prototype for one person and it worked, and they may begin making them for other people. 

There are also feeders out there for dogs made of metal, that cost about thirty bucks which is very affordable, that are 'self feeders', a dog can press the 'door' and kibble comes out for him, but not the chickens and goats. 

Also some people make a 'jump fence' little area for a dog to go into and eat away from the stock.

My goats and sheep won't touch Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice dry kibble and it sits out there all day in a pan. The only thing I have to watch for is starlings. My chickens love dog food but they no longer free range here. They have their own fenced off area/pen where they can get plenty of exercise without destroying my garden, lawn and eating my dogs' food. They are safer this way and my dogs can still protect them but they don't destroy my place by digging up everything. I had to make a decision, free range chickens or LGD's - the dogs obviously won. It wasn't worth it to me to have chickens running all over with pups coming on and a couple of dogs who have already shown they prefer to eat chickens not guard them, grin..... But then my priorities are raising dogs to guard normal sized stock, not fowl. 

Anyhow, there are plenty of options out there to be able to have dog food in front of your dogs all the time so they can eat when they are hungry, and not only when you think they are.

I have no scientific proof to back up my claim about it lessening the chance of bloat, but again, I've never had a dog bloat feeding this way....


----------



## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

How awful. I'm so sorry.


----------



## Grazer (Dec 23, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear this....I can only imagine just how much you and your family are missing Buddy.
My pets are like my kids so I understand your pain.

Bloating is a huge concern to me as our dog acts like he's starving all the time. We feed him grain-free 3 times a day, give him a lot of high-protein treats and boneless & skinless chicken every single day. But he eats everything so incredibly fast and always wants more.
Although he's just 7 months old, I'm worried that he might eat like that for the rest of his life. And eating fast is a huge risk for big breeds.
From all the dogs I've ever had he's definitely the most voracious one.

As far as feeding with elevated dishes: there's a lot of controversy surrounding that opinion. Some experts say that that's what could actually cause bloat, while others are claiming that it will prevent bloat.
But I did find this website to be very helpful: www. globalspan.net/bloat.htm
Their tips are really good and something I try to follow myself.

Poor Buddy is in a better place now and I do hope that when you and your family feel ready to get a new dog, this new dog will end up staying with you guys for a very long time.


----------



## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

Thank you.

We free-choice feed in a jump-box, water is underground springs & ponds they are never without even in winter, one section of the pond only freezes solid for about 2 weeks out of the year when we have to haul water, the reflection of the hilly section keeps it open. The feed is a generic from the coop similar to Iams lamb & rice.

Their feed barrel is on the ground though, they eat standing up. I'm confused should I higher it or keep it low? There is plenty of room to do both, I can do both & let them choose how they want to eat? Thoughts on that?

I'm going to check out that link in a few, thank you. I'm still in shock 5 days after the fact. We waited 6 months before getting Buddy...My kids are telling me it was painful for them to wait so long and want us to move quickly. We've lost animals over the years (A favorite buck just before Thanksgiving) but nothing compares to man's best friend.

HF


----------



## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

I'm sorry.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I'm so sorry {{{{{Hugs}}}}}} I am also attached to my animals they become best friends and family. It's heartbreaking when they leave us.


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

What a hard thing to go through. (((hugs)))

Two of my dogs died from bloat/twisted stomach. One was ten, and was fed once a day. The other was eight and was free fed. I did research into it and discovered that raw fed dogs never get this (I wonder if it is "almost never"?). So, my next dog I put on raw and never looked back.


----------



## ONG2 (Sep 22, 2010)

There is a surgical procedure called a stomach tack. The stomach is actually tacked to the skin of the tummy keeping the stomach from twisting, you can still get bloat the tack will keep the stomach from twisting.


----------



## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

I'm so sorry for your loss. This is a big fear of mine because many of my favorite breeds are prone to it.

There is a kibble test where you take some of your kibble and place it in a bowl, then add water and watch it for the next 24 hours. Some kibbles expand much more than others. Kibbles that expand a lot, increase the risk for bloat.

Feeding a lot once a day increases the risk.

It's suggested to not let a dog run around after a big meal, but give them a chance to digest for a couple of hours before letting them run and goof off.

They also say that dogs that gorge on water after eating are more prone.



I have only recently read up on it and have had to change my entire routine with our 2 year old Great Pyr male. We were doing everything wrong.

Goose, our 2 year old male Pyr, would eat his 4 cups of kibble(grain free) in the evening, then go gorge on water, then go rough house and play fight with his buddy, then sleep upside down!

The alterations are he NOW gets fed 2 cups twice a day, he gets kept in the bedroom for an hour or two before being given access to water or playtime with the other dogs and we're going to start wetting his food.


----------



## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

ONG2 said:


> There is a surgical procedure called a stomach tack. The stomach is actually tacked to the skin of the tummy keeping the stomach from twisting, you can still get bloat the tack will keep the stomach from twisting.


Duke had this procedure after his bloat. It was sheer luck that we got him in within the window and he was saved. The vet described the stomach as a hammock, and when the wind blows the hammock can flip over on itself.

I am so very very sorry for Buddy's loss.


----------



## Grazer (Dec 23, 2011)

Dogs are truly man's best friends and losing a dog is always a real tragedy. To me at least.
If your family and you feel like you can bond with the new puppy and love him/her with all your heart, then perhaps you should listen to your kids and get a new addition to your family sooner rather than later.
For some people it's much easier to get over a dog if there's a new puppy around.
I personally think there's nothing wrong with that.

Some dog experts are totally against feeding with elevated dishes. Others are pro.
I personally like to play it safe and have always given the dogs I've had their dishes on the ground..

A lot of people claim that feeding raw is the best way to prevent bloating in big breeds.
And if I wasn't so worried about catching salmonella and e coli bacteria that way, I'd be feeding my dog and cat raw all the time.
But even after doing a lot of research I still don't think I'd be feeding my pets raw meat any time soon. That's just my personal opinion of course.

Iams is a very poor quality dog food so any food compared to Iams lamb & rice can't be very good either.
It's not going to make them sick or anything, not necessarily I mean. But dogs on it don't get all the nutrients they need, as Iams uses way too many fillers and not enough meat.
When not feeding raw meat, grain-free dog food is the best way to go.
The cheapest grain-free dog food I could find was Nature's Domain which costs about 30 dollars for 35 pounds bag. That is really cheap.
The only downside is that it's only available at Costco and not even in all Costco stores. 

Again this is just my opinion and I am certainly not an expert.
I do hope your family and you will start feeling better soon...losing a beloved dog is a real tragedy..


----------



## Chief Cook (Apr 24, 2011)

So sorry to hear about Buddy. I'm sure he was a wonderful dog and you will miss him very much. We have lost one hound from rolling and twisting his gut, no food was involved. And right now we have a Bluetick that eats like a vacume cleaner. I am going to place a large, flat rock in her feeder so she has to slow down and find her food. Again, I am very sorry to hear about Buddy.


----------



## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

I'm so sorry for your loss and heartache. I lost two GREAT GPs to cancer within the last 12 months. I feel your pain.


----------



## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

Thank you all again. 

I think I will try the rock thing, though I do not see the aggressive eating some are posting about. We'll incorporate some of the other ideas also.

There is a "Gold" somethng or other feed at the coop. I think I'll look into that one to see if it is a better feed. A while ago it was suggested Purina made a good feed, but waaaay back when we had tried it and the dogs has gas & it just didn't sit well with them. It appears they've improved their forumula so may we'll try it again.

I'm working on backing into some of the private messages & forum messages. It may take a while so if I havn't responded I will with due time.

Thank you all, for the suggestions, support, and stories. I know you all know what we are going through.

HF


----------

