# WATCH your livestock - others are



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I was up on the hill in the orchard replacing some of last year's dead trees and my dog was with me. He started barking and I looked up to see a pair of men down by the road watching the sheep in the lower pasture. They were leaning on the fence and had an old truck with a camper shell on the back. I waved and they looked up but didn't wave back. This is over the distance of about a quarter mile.

Sam was really barking and carrying on, which he often does but my own hackles were up as well. I started walking down the hill towards the men and they left the fence and got back in their truck and left. Never waved. Never smiled even though I could clearly see their faces. One was an older Hispanic man probably in his fifties and the other was younger, possibly a son. 

I'm going to be moving the sheep up into the higher pasture when I'm gone and keeping them away from the road. Nobody is going to catch one of those ewes without a footrace but I don't want to take any chances. We're on a dead-end road and there's not a lot of traffic, but that also means there's no real reason for strangers to be there looking over the fence at my stock. 

I think we may be entering into a time of real chaos here shortly and I think some folks are going to be looking around and keeping track of things they'd like to have and where to get them.


----------



## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

I doubt that they'd chase them. Probably just shoot a few and haul them off real quick in the back of that pickup. I've heard a few stories about groups of men (usually Hispanic and probably illegal) who have stopped in the side of the road next to someone's fruit trees, jumped out, swarmed over the trees taking everything, and raced off before anyone could stop them. I'd be shooting if someone tried that with anything of mine.

Kathleen


----------



## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

Ernie, funny you should mention this...my neighbor, just up the road has beef cattle, and the barn and fence is right near the road. His parents also live on this road too. He goes away for work a few days a week, and his dad (he's young, about 62 or so) takes care of business while Paul (the neighbor) is gone (Paul drops a huge wagonload of hay for them, they have pastures and a pond...I dont know much about cattle, but he has been doing this for years)
Well, its springtime, and he had a bunch of cows calf in the past month or so. I drive by there once in a while to look around at the cows, and my boys love seeing the babies. He has a longhorn thats about ready to pop. Well, I needed some hay, and it was a friday (he is usually home Thur night), and I saw a truck pulled up to the barn, and some fellows with field glasses looking at the cows. I pulled up right behind them, thinking they were hay customers, and asked them if Paul was in the field. They didnt know who he was, and acted strangely to me. I got creeped out, went back to my car, took down the license plate (meanwhile, they drove off), and contacted Paul the next day. He thanked me for keeping an eye out, but I wonder what these guys wanted?? It wasnt a young family wanting to show the kids some livestock...they were late 20's early 30's. I make it a point to drive by his place every time I go out now...He has been a good friend to my family...
Weird.


----------



## Goat Servant (Oct 26, 2007)

Well hopefully they would think twice knowing you have a dog who knew this wasnt a good situation.
Maybe next time go up with a shotgun & a camera?
A friend of mine does this. Anything suspicious & she takes pictures. Didnt say but probably is armed while she's at it. Just as a deterrent.


----------



## Scott in Florida Panhandl (May 10, 2002)

We may be entering an era of rustling for food.

Scott


----------



## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

I remember back in the '80's, there was animal rustling going on here in southern MN. It surely could start again, especially with food prices going up. It just pays to be vigilant with yourselves and your neighbors.


----------



## Goat Servant (Oct 26, 2007)

Ernie I'd get myself a few LGDs if you dont already have some. Even my brother is leery of ours & one customer wont come over anymore cause he's afraid of the dogs.


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I've got one LGD and then Sam the Australian Shepherd, but the big dog has been retasked to spend the nights inside with the wife and kids. Somewhere along the line we decided that was more important than keeping her with the livestock. Particularly since I do travel away from home quite a bit. 

I'm going to start taking my rifle out with me when I'm doing work any distance from the house. I don't think what bothered me in particular was these folks looking at my stock. People eyeball other people's property with evil intent all the time. What bothered me was the slow way they moved off when I started walking down there. As if they really weren't that concerned.


----------



## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

GS, stupid question, what type of dog is a LGD? A dog is a wonderful critter once they quit peeing in the house . We want to get another one to go with our Dobie who scares most everyone. A GS is probably coming here soon as they really are a good dog.
(Sorry, thread drift.)

Do you own a game camera? Of course they are limited but if placed as strategically as possible it might at least give you an idea of a vehicle if anything does happen. Do you have illegals in the area? In this neck of the woods it seems to be an increasing problem. My feeling is if someone comes here illegally they will certainly feed themselves illegally.

Plans to lock the barn may be a good plan. DH and I were discussing that just the other day. This makes me think we had better put the accelerator on the plans to increase pasture out back where it is harder to get to the animals.


----------



## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

The slowness would have absolutely bothered me. I just approached a man last night who was parked up the road, pulled off on our property. He got in his van and then back out and quite frankly I began to question my sanity as I was home alone but I was on the phone which he could see (if he could see straight). As it turns out, he was prodding a woodchuck that was hit and not dead. Seemed kind of odd and he acted like he wanted out of there. I told him I'd go get the gun and shoot it. 
This is a good heads up to observe the vehicles that go by. I seem to be seeing more I don't recognize and it isn't summer yet....


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

When people say LGD they usually mean one of the large herd breeds. I have a Great Pyrenees (who I got from a participant in this forum) and she's about a year and a half old. Not full size yet and still has some discipline problems, but she's housebroken. She sleeps in the room with the boys, guarding them at night. I suspect she'd give an intruder serious pause. Sam sleeps in his crate inside at night. He's good for an alarm, but he's too high strung to leave loose in any house where you value your belongings.

There's been a lot of vehicles coming and going that I don't recognize, but one of our neighbors has his house up for sale so I assume it's realtors and househunters going by. Some of those vehicles though have obviously not belonged.

I'm somewhat close to Rockford which has a huge illegal population, a high crime rate, and high unemployment. I have no idea if these two men were illegal or not, but it stands to reason that illegals from rural agararian countries are going to cause more trouble with stealing chickens or sheep. Most urban criminals wouldn't know what to do with a live animal. 

Kind of a shame really. A man who would know how to catch and butcher out a sheep is a man that I'd probably have a lot in common with.


----------



## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

A lot in common maybe but, probably more not in common as I find it hard to believe you would willingly scope out other people's belongings with the intent of harm. That says much about a person. Also, if in need of a meal, there was no offer of work in exchange for such. Knowledge without morales is just that, knowledge, no character and no good boundaries.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> what type of dog is a LGD?


They have been bred over the years (sometimes thousands) for one purpose only, to protect livestock

http://www.lgd.org/

Anyone wanting one of my sheep has to get past Bigfoot first:


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Good point Ernie, I am sure I have lost a few lambs to Italian and Lebanese coyotes over the years. Canada has it good but only so long as the USA is progressing towards recovery...... and that is the multi trillion dollar question. If things drop way way off the charts, I am on the radar screen of a good many lamb eating folks.  I need to check my reserves and bolster my vigilance abilities.


----------



## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

ya watch every thing close now a days every one is out to steal stuff im a bad sleeper when i sleep im out but my dog on the other hand is a very light sleeper and when he hears even a car drive slow down the road he goes nuts and he is by the window all the time looking out side to see whats out there and i think some one took 2 of my ducks cause they went missing a couple weeks ago and they sleep by the road close to the ditch and i keep seeing a car around 1-2 in the morning go slow by our house and like stop when there feild was (its right after the pasture and right on the road pretty much) and just sit there didnt look like any one got out just looked around backed up looked around drove turned around looked around turned around again went fast then slowed down around my house i had the 9mm and a shot gun ready for what might go down i went out side as they were turning around again for the 3rd time and hid be the tree and the garage and set the shot gun down and as they were driving by again i yelled are you lost never seen some one hit the gas so fast and it didnt sound like they let off the gas at all 2 days later 2 of my ducks were gone day after that cameras got put up around the garage and house showing every thing around about $1000 worth of cameras 

so i dont know if it was the same car that was driving by that night that took the ducks or what but 2 years and no animal went missing then see the car doing that and 2 days and 2 are gone? it raises questions and i always think some one is gonna try to steal from me i dont trust any one and i bet i never will when i meet some one to sell parts to or hay to i always think what i would do if he tried to hit me and steal what i got makes me carry a wrench in my back pocket just incase 

and not to long ago we had a high theft going on around here and high propery damage and im out in the country so for it to be high its crazy my grandpa had about $800 worth of chain saws and weed eaters stolen from him and 4 5 gallon gas cans 2 filled with gas they tired to take his mower and gater but i guess gave up after pushing them out of the building and down a little ways he got hit twice in a week 2nd time he dont think they took any thing but his mower was moved and the door was left open and he got some nice cameras set up down there 

and every house on his road has lawn mowers, chains, chain saws, tools, stolen with in the week every night was a different house they hit cops never did find them or the stuff they stole but like they look any ways most cops are lazy some one gets shot then there right over but just a theft case it gets wrote up looked at and thrown in a locker and if your lucky they will put it in the paper about what got stolen and you have a .5% chance of seeing your stuff ever again 

thats just cops around here that i know and deal with and i hear storys about lazy cops all the time from many different people in many different areas


----------



## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

I have read on national news sites of folks killing and butchering livestock on-site, taking only the choice pieces of meat. Not only cows, sheetp, but I'm pretty certain I've read about this happening to horses? Is my memory failing me, or have others read about this as well?

If things continue to go down hill it won't only be livestock, but fruit trees and gardens as well.


----------



## bee (May 12, 2002)

your memory isn't failing you, Florida has/had a big time problem with horses being butchered right in their paddocks and pastures..one picture I saw they tied the horse to a post in his field and butchered him right there.....

I have stopped bringing folks up here for poultry sales; I meet them in well traveled parking lots.


----------



## sandc (Apr 26, 2010)

Buy a couple of the full size rifle targets and glue them onto some pieces of plywood. Shoot them up a bit and hang a couple along the fenceline. People slow down to look, but very few stop.

Remember if they come out to grab a few sheep, it is just as easy to pop your lgd.


----------



## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

it's nothing new, stuff has always been poached from fields(on the hoof or off the vine). 
whats new is it happening to the more backyard farmer types.


----------



## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

BTW, out here people hang coyotes on the fences to tell other coyotes to stay away (...)


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

wyld thang said:


> BTW, out here people hang coyotes on the fences to tell other coyotes to stay away (...)


Problem around here is all the coyotes relatives come for the funeral, and stay! :grump:

My dirt bumpyarrgss dirt road for some reason discourages drive by's. If I do see a rare drive by, I intercept them and do a little interrogating.

My cousin has goats next door on her 380 acre spread... the only poaching she's had is by relatives. Thankfully, those relatives have got some nice scholarships to Texas State Penal University.


----------



## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

yahbut it seems to make people FEEL better to watch that coyote slowly rot away on the fence, dripping off bit by but


----------



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

That's a hard thing to have in the back of your mind, while gone from home Ernie. Had my first horse stolen out of the pasture, he was too friendly all the others would never let a stranger come up to them. When we moved here, bought some plants and put a few items in the barn. Came back and they were gone. Told the previous owner and some of the items showed back up. Couple of months later ,here comes a truck with a woman and young boy thru our back field, looken to steal some more. Now I know it was a woman because no man would bother to steal a Honeysuckle vine in a pot. She comes by the house every once in awhile, cause I've had to learn to pay attention to every veicle that goes by. Dought she'll come in here again with these dogs, but it isn't any good to have to live -worrying.


----------



## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

CCW for EVERYONE in the house who can legally carry (age wise). (My wife dislikes guns, but is thinking about a CCW)


I wondered why I was thinking about putting the sheep and gaots we are planning inb the BACK of the property...

Thanks for the heads up Ernie!


----------



## John Carter (Oct 6, 2004)

still LOTS of cattle rustling goin on in Oklahoma. The cattleman's association has its own investigative enforcement division.
Dont really hear much about other types of theft though Im sure it occurs also.


----------



## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

check state laws also for shooting any one that you catch on your properity 

couple years back i heard about a guy that was about to get robbed and he sat up from bed pulled out his .22 shot the one guy right through the heart before he got the door unlocked he was dead by the time police got there and he didnt get any thing


----------



## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

bigmudder77 said:


> check state laws also for shooting any one that you catch on your properity
> 
> couple years back i heard about a guy that was about to get robbed and he sat up from bed pulled out his .22 shot the one guy right through the heart before he got the door unlocked he was dead by the time police got there and he didnt get any thing


I think you're referring to the "Castle" laws in some states.


----------



## Trisha in WA (Sep 28, 2005)

we used to live on a very heavily traveled road close to 2 large military bases. I always figured if the situation warranted, those trained fellas could take anything on my place and I really wouldn't be able to do much about it. We are in the process of moving so far out in the toolies that only one other person lives on the 3.5 mile stretch of dirt road.
It's hard to have someone on guard 24/7 not the way I want to live....though if the times come down to it, we'll do what we need to in order to protect our own.


----------



## whatrset (Apr 13, 2010)

Back in the 80's we lost several sheep and cows to roadside butchers. THey would shoot them with a 22 and use a chainsaw to quarter them out. The butchers were vever found, but they were efficient in they disassemby. Ran cooking oil in the oiler of the saw and a skip tooth chain to clear the goo.


----------



## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

whatrset said:


> Ran cooking oil in the oiler of the saw and a skip tooth chain to clear the goo.


ahem, uh, good to know


----------



## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

ya im not sure what it was just heard about it cause he lived close to an old friend that got woke up when the shot was fired tought it was some one going after his cattle so he ran out with his .22 and seen the car like fly through the guys yard and down the road then seen like 5 police cars at the guys house


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

whatrset said:


> Back in the 80's we lost several sheep and cows to roadside butchers. THey would shoot them with a 22 and use a chainsaw to quarter them out. The butchers were vever found, but they were efficient in they disassemby. Ran cooking oil in the oiler of the saw and a skip tooth chain to clear the goo.


If they were never found, how in the heck did you find out what they ran in the saw and what kind of chain they used? And what caliber of bullet?

Did you hear about it somehow or was there clues at the scene?


----------



## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

BlueJuniperFarm said:


> I've heard a few stories about groups of men (usually Hispanic and probably illegal) who have stopped in the side of the road next to someone's fruit trees, jumped out, swarmed over the trees taking everything, and raced off before anyone could stop them. I'd be shooting if someone tried that with anything of mine.
> 
> Kathleen


That happened to my inlaws a couple of years ago. They looked out and saw a truck with about 10 Hispanics (they appeared to be, anyway) in the back. They jumped out, crossed the fence and started stripping the apple trees. My FIL, naive old coot that he is, walked out (unarmed) to tell them to quit. Luckily they got back in the truck, with the apples, and peeled out. 

We've had something strange happen in the last few weeks, but we haven't solved the mystery yet. Our dog has been barking at night, and when I (or hubby) go out with a light and a gun to check, there's nothing obvious going on. Our dog barks at deer and other animals, so we never know whether it's a false alarm or not.

Last weekend we were out in the woods behind the barn and saw what looked like a faint trail passing through to our pasture, and also found two small trees (pencil sized) that had been cut by a knife. There was no mistaking that it was cut by a knife and not an animal. We think someone might be passing through our property at night. I'm always armed when I go out, and carry a 3 million (I think) candle spotlight with me. One of these nights I'm going to shoot a varmint. I'm also going to be getting a lock on the chicken house - at least it will make noise if they have to break into it. 

We have a large population of illegals here, and to be fair we've got lots of ******** and unemployed folks too. Most of our neighbors are elderly....so it would be easy for someone to slip around and find easy targets.


----------



## whatrset (Apr 13, 2010)

Ernie said:


> If they were never found, how in the heck did you find out what they ran in the saw and what kind of chain they used? And what caliber of bullet?
> 
> Did you hear about it somehow or was there clues at the scene?



Cuttus Interuptus. We were driving the backroads checking our range (was Free range then, not pastured). Saw a truck, Head lights on across a 40 acre clearcut. It is a 3 mile road to get there, when we got there they left in such a hurry they left their saw, and 1/2 a carcass behind. .22 round was dug out of the head, saw was taken by the cops. I was a kid but I remember the scene. Very interesting scene, THey were very efficient. We ate the other 1/2 of OUR cow after completing the butcher job.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Mom_of_Four said:


> We've had something strange happen in the last few weeks, but we haven't solved the mystery yet. Our dog has been barking at night, and when I (or hubby) go out with a light and a gun to check, there's nothing obvious going on. Our dog barks at deer and other animals, so we never know whether it's a false alarm or not.
> 
> Last weekend we were out in the woods behind the barn and saw what looked like a faint trail passing through to our pasture, and also found two small trees (pencil sized) that had been cut by a knife. There was no mistaking that it was cut by a knife and not an animal. We think someone might be passing through our property at night. I'm always armed when I go out, and carry a 3 million (I think) candle spotlight with me. One of these nights I'm going to shoot a varmint. I'm also going to be getting a lock on the chicken house - at least it will make noise if they have to break into it.
> 
> We have a large population of illegals here, and to be fair we've got lots of ******** and unemployed folks too. Most of our neighbors are elderly....so it would be easy for someone to slip around and find easy targets.


IF you are in the house, and the dog barks, and you go outside, and are under surveillance (by who or whatever), they have the advantage on you... odds are, if they have half a brain, they'll never be discovered. Unless you break 'pattern', sneak out a side door or window (different from where you usually exit from), they'll always see you attempting to sneak up on them.

ANYtime my LGD's raise holy hanna for more than a little bit, I'll go outside and course their location [not worried in the least about anyone sneaking up on me]... if it's not in the general direction of my cuz's LGD's (her LGD's and mine 'rumble' regularly), I figure out whether I need to investigate. If I hear ATV's, I figure out if there on my other cousins land or not... if no ATV's, I take the pistol that's usually in my hand, and fire off a clip of .22lr's off toward the wilderness (no humans or livestock)... if it's coyotes prowling, they vamoose.

IF there were some evildoer zombies lurking, and my hackles were up, I'd take out an AK and fire off a magazine's worth... usually this calms my zombie worries.

I'm lucky.... the only road down here has to go past my cuz's LGD's... and they sleep right next to the road... and they always go ape pie crazy when anyone drives up threatening their protectees.


----------



## coehorn (Jul 29, 2009)

You folks might want to consider surveillance and security equipment. I installed hi-end B&W cameras around the property and monitor the system on a dedicated PC. I bought the black-n-white cams specifically because of their ability to see in infrared but I had not yet mounted the IR light sources. As a result, when the sun went down, the system was "blind".

Got up the other morning and the gas door on the pickup was open. Ugh. I've since mounted some IR and ultrasonic goodies.

For remote areas, consider wireless cams with suitable range and a battery. They are easily hidden. You can monitor these things from your PC with a the correct input boards and a good security program like go1984. The motion detection and user selectable alarm functions (send email, trigger another program, etc) are very neat.

If you go this direction, make sure to enable date/time stamping. Some courts have a problem without it.....


Also, one other thing. 

My S.O.'s son was alerted in the wee hours of the morning by a barking dog on the farm. He went outside and encountered two "ninja's" -- he believed they were police dressed in black pajamas with black out face camo. He challenged them and they went dead still. Then, they backed away very, very slowly until them reached the pasture where they disappeared. Turns out that the federals were trespassing across homesteads and farms -- apparently looking for something -- or perhaps some other reason.


----------



## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Not a quick solution, but if this problem is expected to continue/worsen, is it feasible to let a wild/native hedgerow grow next to the road/fence, to block the view from the road?


----------



## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

texican said:


> IF you are in the house, and the dog barks, and you go outside, and are under surveillance (by who or whatever), they have the advantage on you... odds are, if they have half a brain, they'll never be discovered.


That's a good point - all one would have to do is stand perfectly still behind a tree until I go back inside. One night (about 2 a.m.) I did hear something moving around beyond where I could see through the brush and trees. Hubby wondered if I had blinded someone temporarily with the spotlight and they stumbled. Or it could have been a **** escaping in the underbrush. Although they usually can't help but stop and look back, and their eyes reflect in the light. No deer is that noisy, plus they have their own trail farther out from the barn and we see them often. That noise was what prompted us to go search the area, and we found the trail and the cut trees.

I'm going to check into some game cameras with infrared. They're pricey, but will be more valuable as time goes by. We haven't had any theft so far, but we certainly don't want any. And if someone gets shot, I want proof of what they were doing.


----------



## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

Mom_of_Four said:


> Last weekend we were out in the woods behind the barn and saw what looked like a faint trail passing through to our pasture, and also found two small trees (pencil sized) that had been cut by a knife. There was no mistaking that it was cut by a knife and not an animal. We think someone might be passing through our property at night. I'm always armed when I go out, and carry a 3 million (I think) candle spotlight with me. One of these nights I'm going to shoot a varmint. I'm also going to be getting a lock on the chicken house - at least it will make noise if they have to break into it.
> 
> We have a large population of illegals here, and to be fair we've got lots of ******** and unemployed folks too. Most of our neighbors are elderly....so it would be easy for someone to slip around and find easy targets.


It sounds like time for you to get some night vision binoculars. So you can see them before they see you.

Also, put up a game camera in the area you are suspecting that they are passing through.


----------



## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

I was just talking to hubby on the phone at lunch and he's on board with the cameras and even mentioned night vision goggles or a night vision scope for the rifle.


----------



## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

I know it's not exactly the same thing, but:

I live in the Ozarks, and there are a lot of homes around us that are "vacation homes." They sit empty 90% of the time, if not more. We have NEVER had any issues with them being broken into until this year. 

Just this spring, we have had almost a dozen break-ins.

That and people are stealing anything that is not tied down...

When we were moving in, about a month ago, my parents were kind enough to let us borrow a dolly... Well, after returning it, my parents left it beside thier shed, went into the house to find the key to the shed, and by the time they came back out, the dolly was gone. And we are talking about a really rural area...

As for us, we have had to chase poachers off our land more than a few times, already. We have signs posted but they just ignore them... Our neighbor caught 2 guys on ATVs taking down a deer on our land not too long ago... Deer season, here doesn't start until October (for archery) later for shooting...


----------



## whatrset (Apr 13, 2010)

My grandfather had a dual light systen around his night sheep coral. One set of lights was on the away from the road (House) side and illuminated a large portion of the house side of the lot. THe other set of lights was along the road up in a couple trees. These were 3x briter than the house lights and were controlled by a switch out the back door where he could back light anyone that was in between. Apparently he had learned that trick on Saipan in WWII. He never caught anyone in the lot, but it played heck on the critters getting in. 
He like the lights between the sheep lot and the house b/c it reduced road view into what was going on near the house side. Very ingenious, I may have to do that here if people keep bein stupid.


----------



## laughaha (Mar 4, 2008)

Mom_of_Four said:


> That happened to my inlaws a couple of years ago. They looked out and saw a truck with about 10 Hispanics (they appeared to be, anyway) in the back. They jumped out, crossed the fence and started stripping the apple trees. My FIL, naive old coot that he is, walked out (unarmed) to tell them to quit. Luckily they got back in the truck, with the apples, and peeled out.
> 
> We've had something strange happen in the last few weeks, but we haven't solved the mystery yet. Our dog has been barking at night, and when I (or hubby) go out with a light and a gun to check, there's nothing obvious going on. Our dog barks at deer and other animals, so we never know whether it's a false alarm or not.
> 
> ...


Toss a couple of geese in with the chickens- I did that a year ago and I don't have ANYTHING come near the chickens without my (and the world) knowing about it!! My geese have paid for themselves MANY MANY times over. I call them my LGG (livestock guardian geese). The only dog I've ever had problems with is a dachshund who loves to kill chickens but is scared to death of the geese. Right now I'm the only person they will let into the chicken coop/pen. One tries to kick the door down to get at anyone who comes near the coop, except me.


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Mom_of_Four said:


> I was just talking to hubby on the phone at lunch and he's on board with the cameras and even mentioned night vision goggles or a night vision scope for the rifle.


He might think twice when he sees the price tags on these. Plus, my experience with these devices are that they aren't worth ANY amount of money. They hamper your vision more than they actually improve it.

Go sit out in the dark away from a fire or a porch light for a little while and you'll adjust to the dark. I guarantee you that your night vision won't be any worse in that case than someone moving around out there, and you'll have the advantage of it being on your home turf.


----------



## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

bigmudder77 said:


> ya im not sure what it was just heard about it cause he lived close to an old friend that got woke up when the shot was fired tought it was some one going after his cattle so he ran out with his .22 and seen the car like fly through the guys yard and down the road then seen like 5 police cars at the guys house


I call that "high speed beef".


----------



## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

I took another look at the "trail" today - we had a heavy rain yesterday and any walking around really compresses the oak leaves that fell in the fall. Looks to me like someone walked there recently. Maybe it's a vagrant sleeping in our old shed, or an animal, but I'm concerned. I might go snoop around outside tonght, leaving the house by a different door without the light on.


----------



## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

make sure someone in your household knows your going out snopping and be prepared for battle. DS gets upset with me when I go out at night without letting someone know what I'm up to, but when the chickens are fussing someones gotta go see.


----------



## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

Was watching some kind of a farm show over the weekend and they was mentioning how cattle rustling (any livestock) was on a big rise and how everyone needs to go back to the branding iron instead of relying on ear tags. Said their's people out there searching for unbranded livestock so they can steal them and sell them at livestock auctions. If I remember right, I think they mentioned California is making it mandatory that you have your own "brand" for your livestock and have to registar it with the state or you will not be able to sell it. Maybe only a bill in the making right now.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Maybe it's a vagrant sleeping in our old shed


Maybe you need to set some RAT traps.


----------



## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Bah, I was out there for almost an hour last night between 11 and 12 and didn't see or hear a thing. The dog was sound asleep too - I need to try again when he's barking. Plenty of spider webs all over this a.m. so nothing passed through later in the night.

P.S. hubby sleeps through the barking lots of times, but I guess I better start letting him know when I go out late at night.


----------



## Stephen in SOKY (Jun 6, 2006)

Your reputation throughout the community can be a help as well. I never hesitate to run a clip through the mini in the middle of the night. I have open carried daily for years, not just at home, but in the country store, at the recycle center, anywhere my daily activities take me. Nowdays, being thought of and spoken about as a little bit crazy and trigger happy isn't always a bad thing.


----------



## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

http://www.postbulletin.com/newsmanager/templates/localnews_story.asp?z=2&a=452109

WABASHA &#8212; Old-fashioned cattle rustling took a modern twist last month in Wabasha County when two women allegedly stole four calves and made their getaway in something with a different kind of horsepower &#8212; a 1997 Honda Civic.

Melissa Maria Shones, 20, of Wabasha, was charged April 28 with felony rustling and livestock theft, gross misdemeanor theft and misdemeanor driving after revocation.

Nicole Kristine Kemnitz, 22, of rural Rochester, was charged the same day with felony rustling and livestock theft and gross misdemeanor theft.

The calves were valued between $300 and $2,500.

The complaint alleges two farmers in Mount Pleasant Township near Lake City reported four calves were taken from individual housing pens between 10 p.m. April 25 and 4 a.m. April 26. Three of the calves had ear tags with numbers and two had state medical ID tags.

The farmers contacted Central Livestock Association in Zumbrota April 26 to alert them about the thefts. The firm told them four calves had been dropped off earlier that day and three had tags that matched numbers of the stolen calves. The two women who dropped off the calves were supposed to be back that afternoon to pick up their money.

At 4:40 p.m., a 1997 Honda Civic drove up with the two women in it. When they walked into the association's office and saw a deputy, they left the building but were stopped.

"Inside the vehicle were found two wire cutting tools, some tan baling twine, and what appeared to be calf or cow hair."

Kemnitz later told authorities she was with Shones when she took the calves and she helped Shones load them in the car.


----------



## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

I'm bumping this thread because I'd like to get some recommendations for trail cameras. We've had our mailbox knocked off twice in the last ten days, obviously by joyriding teens with a baseball bat. We've been "thinking about" getting a camera for months now, and I'm going to do it this week.

Most of the models I've researched have infrared sensors. Does this put out a red light that someone can see? I don't want the camera(s) stolen if someone sees a light, but I want to start monitoring around our property. I don't need anything fancy like live feed to the computer, just a camera with a memory card I can check during the day.

So please tell me what brand or model you like, and why. Thanks!


----------



## praieri winds (Apr 16, 2010)

we had 4 young goats stolen out of a barn not close to the house July 4 year ago you can bet they were on someones bbq next day made me so mad it seems a person can't have anything to himself any miore without some other people wanting to take it away form him


----------



## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

My goats are in the interior of the property, but my fruit trees and the largest garden are next to the road.


----------



## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

Mom_of_Four said:


> I don't need anything fancy like live feed to the computer, just a camera with a memory card I can check during the day.


Respectfully, why would you want a memory card that you can check after the event. Oh, look, there is blurry image of my cow being stolen six hours ago...

A live feed or an alert sent to a wireless device would offer more for prevention. A memory card MAY aid in recovery, if it captured a useable picture.


----------



## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

I think an image of someone bashing our mailbox, or getting into my hen house would be fine for law enforcement. I never thought of the cameras who send images to my computer, mainly because I thought they would be a lot more expensive. Maybe the quality of still photos isn't good enough to identify the bad guys. But that's why I'm asking - I've never had any kind of game camera before.


----------



## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

Game cameras are only good if they capture an image of someone that can somehow be identified. Hey look, its that dumbass Bobby or the license plate is 123XYZ. Then the cops can go fetch the offender.

If we are talking about prevention you need a system that will alert you to an intrusion. 

Most game cams are only good for the first part. You retrieve the info and call a cop and wait.

A dedicated CCTV system, preferably with infrared, motion detection and/or perimeter alarms, lets you know, RIGHT NOW, that there is a problem.

I strongly suggest that you either do some serious internet research or contact a local CCTV installer. I don't know the physical layout of your property and CANNOT make any recommendations for equipment/service without that info.


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

If I had a game photo of someone stealing my sheep or damaging my property then I wouldn't take it to the police. There are all sorts of arcane rules dealing with photographs as legal evidence and in some states YOU'LL end up being the one in trouble for taking photos of someone without their permission.

What I'd like to do if I had such a photo would be to plaster every telephone pole with a copy of it in a 3 county area with the words: "Know this person? Call XYZ and give me the name and current address. $100 reward."

The job of the police is to provide documentation, not protection. They are essentially revenue-generators and sort of an armed secretarial pool whose job is to show up and collect all the names of the victims.


----------



## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

whatrset said:


> Back in the 80's we lost several sheep and cows to roadside butchers. THey would shoot them with a 22 and use a chainsaw to quarter them out. The butchers were vever found, but they were efficient in they disassemby. Ran cooking oil in the oiler of the saw and a skip tooth chain to clear the goo.


Thanks for the tip!!! (Not for rustling but for 20-30 legal deer I usually process when back home).


----------



## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Ernie said:


> What I'd like to do if I had such a photo would be to plaster every telephone pole with a copy of it in a 3 county area with the words: "Know this person? Call XYZ and give me the name and current address. $100 reward."


And when someone calls to tell me who's in the picture - then what? I'm out $100, and I can't just go to the perp's house and settle the score.

Cascade, I'll do some research today on the CCTV setup you described. I hadn't considered one before because I'm here 90% of the time and patrol our land armed except in the dead of the night. If I'm asleep when the CCTV picks up something, how will I know?


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Mom_of_Four said:


> And when someone calls to tell me who's in the picture - then what? I'm out $100, and I can't just go to the perp's house and settle the score.


Don't have a husband? 

Really, MoF, it's time for you to associate with a different class of fellow farmers. Most of the ones I hang out with wouldn't stand by while another one of us gets robbed, or fail to make sure it didn't happen again.

But I guess I grew up in the Southwest where there's different rules.


----------



## TroyT (Jun 24, 2008)

We have a neighbor that is a bit - "off". We would see her strolling around our property like she owned the place. So we decided to install some cameras to keep and eye on her and eventually force her to stop.

I installed them when I thought she wasn't around, she was around, and she knew we had the cameras. The problem went away, she never came on our property again. 

This points out one way to use cameras... Buy letting people know that you have them, (make them visible, or be seen working on them) most people will move on to easier targets. There is nothing wrong with catching them in the act, but preventing the act in the first place is not bad either.

There is a lot to learn about cameras.... For example:

Here in WA, the IR bullet cameras are about worthless, because the bugs can see in the IR range and are attracted to the cameras setting off the motion detection. So I use non-built-in IR cameras and mount an IR flood light, in the 900nm range somewhere else.

Cameras that work in daylight and IR at night, need an IR cut filter, or you will have to choose between well focused day light operation or well focused night time (IR) operation. Because IR light refracts differently than daylight.

Camera lens selection is also important, if you don't have enough lens on the camera, you will see the person, but not in enough detail to determine who they are, the same goes for Lic plates.

Then you get to camera placement which is equally important. 

Cameras should be mutually supporting, meaning that each camera is covered by another camera. Most DVR systems have an alarm that can be tripped when the signal from a camera is lost. Most also have the ability to detect motion but if a person stands out of range of the camera with a laser pointer an points it at the camera, the camera is blind. The motion alarm may go off, but the person has what ever the response time is to do what ever they like. With mutually supporting cameras you have a better chance of seeing them.

There is a bit to learn, but take you time and think about what you're trying to accomplish. Things to consider when setting up the system:

What area(s) do you want to cover?
Where does the sun come up in the summer, spring, fall and winter and will it shine into the camera lens?
Are street light, or car head lights going to blind the camera?
Is there so much motion in the area from trees or other (non-target) items that the motion detection is going to be useless?
Where can you mount the camera where it will be safe?
Are cameras the best way to cover this area?


----------

