# Anyone have experience with earthships?



## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

I've been fascinated with earthships for a long time and love that it is a closed loop system. However, having done a lot of manual labor in my life, I'm pretty sure that pounding dirt into tires is something that I have no interest in doing. I also don't like the possibility of off-gassing, especially since I have lots of chemical sensitivities. Then it hit me....why not use the earthship design and build it out of earthbags? I did a search and others have thought of this before I did. So it is doable.

I lived in one of the harshest deserts in the US for 5 years and loved it!!!! I'm really getting homesick. There are so many trees here that I can't hardly see any distance at all. Humidity makes me cranky and there's just way too many folks here. 

It only rains 10 inches a year there....if you are lucky. I lived from water catchment when I was there previously and in other areas as well, so I know how to conserve and use water wisely. The reason I moved out of that area is that there is no way to grow a garden. Absolutly everything is trucked in. 

The ground is calliche with areas of bentonite clay all of it with a high salt and calcium content. If that isn't enough, the insect life out there is absolutely awe inspiringly evil. There are some bugs out there that scientists haven't named yet. Some years we would have these huge black mutant grasshoppers move through in waves...not much fun when riding a motorcycle either!

So, today while I was looking through my old pictures, I kept thinking about how I could garden out there in the desert with limited water and with a way to protect plants from the bugs and critters. Bingo! An earthship!

I'd love to talk to someone that has actually lived in an earthship. The main thing I'd like to know is how much produce do the garden beds produce? I use a bare minimum of water and would be using a sawdust toilet. So maybe a couple or 3 gallons of water per day of greywater would be produced. 

Any building tips would be appreciated. I'm still just toying with the idea, but every time I think about moving back my heart gives a little jump. Every time I go back to visit I get this huge goofy grin as soon as I get in sight of the mountains and the land starts to look just so and the sky stretches out just so.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

When I lived in Colorado, we had planned on building an earthship. My wife and I made quite a few test walls and pounded plenty of tires. It's REALLY hard work! Satisfying though. We ended up having to move around the country for education and jobs afterwards and have not gotten back to our colorado property.

Spending time with neighbors in the area there in colorado have an owner built earthship, and visits to the Reynold's group earthship in New Mexico convinced us of the beauty and utility of the construction approach. 

I think they work very well and can be "cheap" if you don't count your labor as $. Earthbags could work very well if done in a bermed fashion. One other option is to still use tires and cut away the sidewall on the "up" facing side of the tire. They are supposed to be much easier to fill/pack this way. Haven't had a chance to try it yet, but I will in the coming years.

While some folks we visited used the grow beds for annual veggies, many tended to go with small trees or other perennials. I always came away with the impression that the food production capacity of the graywater beds had never been fully optimized in the earthship style of construction. I think there is a lot of room for development.


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## Tyler520 (Aug 12, 2011)

Regarding labor, you have to acknowledge a universal inverse-relationship in the construction business: cheap typically equals hard labor; easy labor usually equals expensive construction costs.

Have you looked into rammed earth? similar labor, but literally dirt-cheap: Earth is taken from on-site, supplemented with between 0.5%-3% cement content, and you can construct a cheap, mobile formwork system (I can direct you to a set of instructions, if this interests you).

I live in southern AZ (Sonoran Desert), and have stayed in a version of the Earth Ship design. I am not a fan. I do not consider them to be structurally stable, or thermally efficient. I also think that the off-gassing from the tires is dangerous. They are also difficult to finish to any quality I would find acceptable.

The bag system is quite nice, though, but takes some research to learn how to make the most of it.


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

A while back I stumbled upon a book titled "off the grid living" or something similar. It was a bit misnamed, as it dealt with the cultural aspects of everybody from Hermits to the uber-weathy, who lived in areas where they had no access to the grid. The most interesrting part was a chapter on the whole earthship movement. Apparently there are many serious controversies surrounding the founder and his work. Everything from homes that didn't come close to preforming as he claimed, to a failed community, and other big issues. I would imagine that earth bag, adobe and rammed earth all are viable alternatives to the whole dirt, tire and beer can routine. IIRC, building a genuine "Earthship" also requires a pretty heathy licensing fee.


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## CJ (May 10, 2002)

Just curious, why would you think filled earth bags would be any less work than filling tires?


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

wharton said:


> IIRC, building a genuine "Earthship" also requires a pretty heathy licensing fee.


The only fees I've encountered were if you wanted the founder's company to provide drawings, materials, or have them come do the work.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

CJ said:


> Just curious, why would you think filled earth bags would be any less work than filling tires?


pounding soil into intact tires with a sledgehammer is quite a bit more work than filling bags with a shovel and tamping them firm, in my experience. The sidewalls of the tires make it more challenging to fill all the gaps. 

If I were to do it again, cutting off the upper facing sidewall would probably make it just as easy as filling and tamping bags.


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## Tyler520 (Aug 12, 2011)

K.B. said:


> Also, if you don't pack each tire properly, settling will begin to destroy the structure...which will probably happen regardless via the rubber degradation and deformation. Once you start chopping off parts of the tires to make construction easier and more solid, the entire scheme of the Earth Ship loses purpose
> 
> Rammed Earth - if constructed properly - can last 500+ years, and looks so much more clean and attractive than looking like you're living in a hobbit hole made of garbage.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Tyler520 said:


> Also, if you don't pack each tire properly, settling will begin to destroy the structure...which will probably happen regardless via the rubber degradation and deformation. Once you start chopping off parts of the tires to make construction easier and more solid, the entire scheme of the Earth Ship loses purpose
> 
> Rammed Earth - if constructed properly - can last 500+ years, and looks so much more clean and attractive than looking like you're living in a hobbit hole made of garbage.


None of the tires should be visible or exposed to sunlight or air once the construction is complete. Once pounded into position, I haven't seen or heard of any issues with degradation or deformation.

There are definitely some examples of earthships that I have seen that are "less than attractive" from my perspective, but to each their own.

A finished earthship can look like any other rammed earth or adobe type structure. The walls lend themselves to a more rounded appearance, but they do not have to be constructed that way.

People I've come across tend to love or hate earthships...


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## Tyler520 (Aug 12, 2011)

K.B. said:


> None of the tires should be visible or exposed to sunlight or air once the construction is complete. Once pounded into position, I haven't seen or heard of any issues with degradation or deformation.
> 
> There are definitely some examples of earthships that I have seen that are "less than attractive" from my perspective, but to each their own.
> 
> ...


Not true - the tires and soil have vastly different densities and compressive and tensile properties. Differential settling is inevitable.

Also, many natural microbes in the soil thrive on the petroleum products in tires and will eventually break it down and/or further degrade its integrity


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Tyler520 said:


> Not true - the tires and soil have vastly different densities and compressive and tensile properties. Differential settling is inevitable.
> 
> Also, many natural microbes in the soil thrive on the petroleum products in tires and will eventually break it down and/or further degrade its integrity


Have you come across reports of tire degradation of the tires and differential settling with rammed tire construction?

When done properly, each tire is pounded with ~400lbs of soil that is compressed into the shape of the tire. No gaps or air pockets should remain. Making sure the soil has sufficient moisture for tamping helps with this. This makes for a VERY solid wall. Additionally the tire walls that form the North/East/West walls are backed up by earth berms. The berms provide additional support to the walls.

One area that is a risk factor is water infiltration. If the home is built on a slope and water run-off is not managed properly in the design of the site prep, I can envision moisture problems with the walls and floors. This is an issue with many types of homes built on sloping sites.

Regarding degradation, UV is much more likely to be a factor for degradation. I haven't heard of any issues with degradation due to microbes. Once the tires are sealed behind the earth plaster/stucco, it is hard to envision the conditions being suitable for microbial activity.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

I am an Earthship.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

The only one I have been inside was a lovely creation. However, the owner said they could not get the water system to work. Any stored water was soon full of algae, so they gave up on the rainwater, greenhouse plant growing part of the plan.

I once lived next to some people who made adobe bricks out of the soil in their own yard. They used those to build a very large and expensive adobe mansion. A lot of labor to build bricks, but that sure cut down on the cost of building the house.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

Tyler520 said:


> Have you looked into rammed earth? similar labor, but literally dirt-cheap: Earth is taken from on-site, supplemented with between 0.5%-3% cement content, and you can construct a cheap, mobile formwork system (I can direct you to a set of instructions, if this interests you).


I would be interested in seeing the instructions. I haven't really considered this method of building as I figured it would be difficult to work with the forms by myself. That is one of the things I like about earthbags. They are very user friendly for a single person, though of course like anything, it is easier with 2 or more.


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

Tires have a half life of like 35,000 years when buried.


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## Tyler520 (Aug 12, 2011)

Building methods for rammed earth vary - people create different methods to suite their skill. It would definitely be a back-breaking process by yourself, but do-able.

Contact the University of Arizona's Mary Hardin - she has developed a low-budget modular formwork system for rammed earth, and can provide you with a basic introduction to materials and methods free of charge.

http://cala.arizona.edu/users/mary-hardin?destination=user/27


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

MEN just sent me this link to a compulation of earthship articles

http://www.motherearthnews.com/eart...n=2013+GEGH&utm_source=iPost&utm_medium=email

WWW


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## ani's ark (May 12, 2012)

For the gardens, could you get creative and have your wastewater pipes actually BE the garden? So your sink/waste water drains into a series of small garden bed made from old bathtubs, well mulched to retain the moisture. That way the water could evaporate up through the soil and mulch into the root systems of the veges. Just having fun speculating, good luck with your building plans - it certainly sounds like you are called back to that landscape!


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## Piney Woods (Jul 5, 2006)

How about an earthship with attached solar greenhouse? Or earth bermed construction with a solar greenhouse.

I've read quite a bit on earth bag building and came away with two thoughts to one person doing it alone - one was to cut the bottom out of a bucket that fits your bag opening, making it easier to fill the bag without it collapsing on you, and the other thought was to build the walls where the bags are either smaller or set back for each row, thereby making "steps" for the person to carry the bags up to the top.

I half heartedly researched buying some bags for earth building and they were $195 for 1,000.


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## ralph perrello (Mar 8, 2013)

Earthship is just outside Taos, NM. I looked over the models and was not overly impressed. They had a solar system for electric which works OK. I have one on my full time RV. (I am looking for land plus ?) I then rode into the nearby development and saw the wood stoves and various gas chimneys from what I assume were water heaters and space heaters or furnaces. One house had a generator out back right next to his propane tank. These are touted as off grid homes and will supply all your needs. As I said, I am not impressed. They do have some good features though. I am not putting them down totally.


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