# I read the news today ....



## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

Every day we see news stories about the influx of people sneaking across the border from Mexico, particularly, vast numbers of children. Some come with family members but it sounds like most of them are coming alone. They are being housed in camps established on military bases. They're being called refugees. Many of them are being taken into the interior states and told to report to court for an immigration hearing for which they don't show up.

I don't want to talk about the who's, hows or whys of the situation. That leads into a political discussion and we try to avoid that on this forum. Besides, thinking about that just makes me mad and won't accomplish anything. Without sounding like an alarmist, I want to focus on how this could potentially effect us and our families in the months, and possibly years, to come. 

In reading an article about these camps today, I was struck by this sentence.
_"The Centers for Disease Control's Emergency Operations Center has __been activated__ and is on alert to spot outbreaks of "epidemic diseases" such as measles, mumps, polio and tuberculosis, infectious disease specialist Dr. Larry Bush said on Newsmax TV Thursday morning."
_http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Bridenstine-immigrants-illegals-surge/2014/07/03/id/580764/?ns_mail_uid=4208793&ns_mail_job=1576053_07042014&promo_code=yvuuc6pd

Remembering back a few years, we spent a lot of time talking about how to prepare for the bird flu if it should evolve into human transmission and become an epidemic. Perhaps we need to dust off the precautions we planned to take and revise them as needed. The diseases mentioned have been pretty much stamped out in this country due to the vaccination requirement for school children. Even so, should we be more conscientious about having booster shots? Who would be most vulnerable to these possible outbreaks?

If several children are diagnosed with TB in your city, or your children's school, what will you do? There are many different scenarios we could discuss about contact with people whose hygiene and health has been compromised due to where they were born. It is sad, and in some cases tragic, but it is something we may have to deal with. How else could this situation effect our families? If the government established a camp in or near your hometown and then began to move some of the families into the community, what potential problems could you see arising?

Angie - I'm trying to keep this on an S&EP level. If you think it is not appropriate here, feel free to move it or edit as you see fit.


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## BlueRose (Mar 7, 2013)

I am very concern about that. I have young family members that will be going to school this Fall. I have been trying to do research on the best methods to keep them safe as will as the ones at home.

Ideas???


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Interesting.
This weekend I'm going to the Sustainable Living Center nearby to learn to make solar cookers and rocket stoves. Wonder how this will compare...


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Have you noticed that people were wearing gloves in old photos? They weren't a fashion statement, the purpose of the gloves in public was for germ protection. Of course they don't protect against airborne disease, but they went a long ways to stop the spreading of germs on door knobs and other items touched in public places. My grandmother still wore gloves in public until she passed on in the 1960's. 

I read a long article on this subject a while back. I might have posted a link to it here. We need to study every single disease that is coming in and what is the best way to protect ourselves from each one. 

Not only are diseases that were eliminated being brought back, but they are bringing diseases that have never been in the country before. That probably means that we have zero resistance to them since we've had no exposure. At least 2 of them are incurable, and we have no way of knowing when (or if) a cure will be found. 

Right now my only solution is to quarantine myself the best I can. There is no 100% safe way to avoid them as they will probably infect others who may pass it along on food containers, handles at gas pumps, items in stores that we may purchase, etc. That doesn't even consider them being spread in our schools where our children will bring them home to family, extended family, friends, and neighbors. 

Everything I've read tells me that so far they have pretty well been contained to areas with high numbers of illegals, but it's only a matter of time before they spread. We have time to prep for it, but we don't know how much time so we need to get educated on what is coming as quickly as possible.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Not only are many of these illegals not vaccinated for normal childhood diseases, but there are now many children here that have not been vaccinated either. If the the illegal children start getting sick, it could easily start spreading. The living conditions seem to be perfect to spread anything contagious. We could have a real medical problem on our hands. I would talk to my doctor about any vaccinations that need to be updated. Many adults have not had booster shots for years and may need them, as well as older children. If I had not had my kids vaccinated, I would reassess my position.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

If you haven't vaccinated your kids you should be very worried. There are a lot of 'old' diseases which can spread faster than wildfire once they are introduced into a none vaccinated environment.

If you and your kids are current on your vaccs then simple precautions will probably keep you healthy.


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## Kbellebear (Apr 11, 2012)

One of my kids can't be vaccinated as a result of an underlying medical condition. Makes me want to put her in a bubble.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Here's the deal ...

After 9/11, the government scared the crap out of you with Muslim boogiemen. Then you cheered on as the government used spy drones, waged war, and curtailed all of their civil liberties. 

Then you cried like kittens in a bathtub when you found that the government was now doing all of that TO YOU.

Well now, the government is scaring you with the illegal alien boogeyman and ramping up fears of disease. And they're putting these kids into refugee camps, shaving their heads, and having them guarded by "brown shirt" civilian security guards answerable only to non-elected government departments.

And conservatives are so foolish that they're _falling for it again_. Less than ten years later.

Within the next 10 years, you'll find yourselves in government dissenter camps wondering how it came to this, and I hope you remember this message.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Ernie said:


> Here's the deal ...
> 
> After 9/11, the government scared the crap out of you with Muslim boogiemen. Then you cheered on as the government used spy drones, waged war, and curtailed all of their civil liberties.
> 
> ...


You might want to look at past epidemics, percentages of vaccinated people in central America, as well as here. You might want to look at pictures and news articles about how the illegals are being housed. Then study how easily some diseases can spread. The facts have noting to do with the government, it is a real possibility.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

No Ernie, that's not the deal.

What we've got are the unintended consequences of a poorly thought out effort on the government's part to "fundamentally transform" this country through changing the demographics of the population.

The pinheads who came up with this fiasco never considered the health ramifications that come along with bringing third world people en masse into a mostly sterile society.

We have good reason to be concerned.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Infectious disease is one of the primary reasons that I demand that immigrants enter in by the front door instead of over and through the fence at the hedgerow.

My maternal grandfather immigrated here with his parents from Italy in 1915 through Ellis Island and the family was quarantined for a few weeks for disease evaluation before being released to the sponsorship of my great grandfather's employer who funded their immigration in exchange for his manufacturing skills.


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

I used TB as an example in my post because we do have cases of TB diagnosed in Texas every year. Here are the stats for 2012.
https://www.dshs.state.tx.us/idcu/disease/tb/statistics/
It is considered a serious problem for all of the border states in the US and Mexico. Fortunately, It is now treatable with antibiotics. The problem is that it can be misdiagnosed early on.
http://www.paho.org/hq/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2511&Itemid=1959&lang=en

If it's true that many of these unlawful immigrants are being relocated in the US and basically turned loose, there is the potential for the spread of disease. This group of people will not be going to the doctor when they want to stay under the radar. This could cause serious problems for anyone who already has a compromised immune system.

In the event of an epidemic, we quarantine as much as possible. If you don't have a reasonable amount of food and supplies put back, it may be very difficult to get what you need. The workforce will probably be noticeably reduced because nobody will want to risk being exposed to something they could take home to their family. This is a good time to inventory what you already have and make a list of what you need. I've been lax about stocking up on medical supplies and that's something I have to address this summer.

Blue Rose asked for suggestions on how to protect young school age children. Does anyone else have a plan worked out for dealing with quarantining youngsters. Do your public schools have a plan in place for dealing with epidemics and disasters? Kbellebear, maybe you actually could work out a plan that would create a virtual bubble for your child.

You're so right about the gloves, Spinner. I think it would be wise to get gloves and masks. Even during flu season when everyone is hacking all over the place, it's a good idea to keep some in your car and wear themwhen you're out. 
I am not shaking in my boots about this situation and I'm not panic stricken. I don't think these people are boogeymen. I think they're desperate people for the most part who have had difficult lives. However, when you consider having these groups moved into a community, you have to consider the possible impact on the community from several different vantages. The drain on local tax funded resources, the possible increase in crime and the previously discussed possibility of disease.

Having grown up in Texas and lived here for most of my life, I can tell you there has been a drastic change in the last few decades in the people who have come up here from south of the border. When I was a kid there was a work agreement between the countries and large groups of people came up for the harvest, bringing their children with them. The farmers were happy to get the help and they were happy to have the work. They were also happy to go home with their earnings so they could live through the winter until the next harvest season. 

A substantial number of today's illegals have no problem with stealing whatever they want and assaulting anyone who gets in their way. If the crime rate goes up, the community and the individual has to increase their security. If this situation happened in your community, what could you do to increase the security of your home and family?


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

The affordable care act has not gone as it was planned. Reckon that bringing in bus loads of folks with diseases or at least that are said to have diseases are going to scare some folks into compliance with ACA? 

Not to mention the old gov standby of getting people good and scared and then taking away a bit of freedom in exchange for 'security and safety'.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Seeing as how illegal aliens with the potential for disease have always been here, all arguments about how this is a valid fear seem to be false.

Unless you are specifically saying that the Obama administration is seeking out diseased immigrants and bringing them here with the purpose of mass-infecting millions of Americans. Which I acknowledge could be a possibility with this admin.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Shrek said:


> Infectious disease is one of the primary reasons that I demand that immigrants enter in by the front door instead of over and through the fence at the hedgerow.
> 
> My maternal grandfather immigrated here with his parents from Italy in 1915 through Ellis Island and the family was quarantined for a few weeks for disease evaluation before being released to the sponsorship of my great grandfather's employer who funded their immigration in exchange for his manufacturing skills.


Your grandfather was quarantined at Ellis Island, and these kids are quarantined in Obama's "resettlement" camps. 

What's the difference?

Legal immigration isn't what you say it is, but rather what the government says it is. And the government has decided that anyone who can cross the desert or swim the river and reach our soil is going to be a legal immigrant.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Kbellebear said:


> One of my kids can't be vaccinated as a result of an underlying medical condition. Makes me want to put her in a bubble.


You should keep in close contact with your doc and make sure he's in close contact with the CDC about any reported cases of any of the nasties (measles, whooping cough, etc) that have been reported anywhere near you. Remember by the time a case is reported it could have been spread over a much larger area. If there are any case near you, you and he can come up with a sensible plan to keep your kid as safe a possible.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Calico Katie said:


> Having grown up in Texas and lived here for most of my life, I can tell you there has been a drastic change in the last few decades in the people who have come up here from south of the border. When I was a kid there was a work agreement between the countries and large groups of people came up for the harvest, bringing their children with them. The farmers were happy to get the help and they were happy to have the work. They were also happy to go home with their earnings so they could live through the winter until the next harvest season.
> 
> A substantial number of today's illegals have no problem with stealing whatever they want and assaulting anyone who gets in their way. If the crime rate goes up, the community and the individual has to increase their security. If this situation happened in your community, what could you do to increase the security of your home and family?


I see illegal aliens each and every day. I talk to them, say hello at the grocery store, and sometimes I stop and talk to the ones down the road. I'm integrated into their secret community. I buy firewood from them as well. I've never had any problems at all.

Now white people on the other hand, are a huge problem out here. Especially a substantial number of them who drive around in white cars with red and blue lights on top and are looking to steal whatever they want and assault anyone who gets in their way.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Ernie said:


> Seeing as how illegal aliens with the potential for disease have always been here, all arguments about how this is a valid fear seem to be false.
> 
> Unless you are specifically saying that the Obama administration is seeking out diseased immigrants and bringing them here with the purpose of mass-infecting millions of Americans. Which I acknowledge could be a possibility with this admin.


The potential for a tornado is always there in any storm but when you see low hanging heavy storm clouds don't you start making sure everyone is a bit closer to the storm cellar?

As pointed out there a MAJOR difference in having one illegal with TB coming in and living a normal life and having one in a packed detention center. Also if you look at outbreaks of measles and whooping cough in some areas we are already having you can see how vulnerable we can be to diseases we thought were things of the past. I suggest you do a little research on cholera and typhoid. Both are relatively common in the areas these people are coming from, easily spread and can be quite deadly for the young and weak.


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## plowhand (Aug 14, 2005)

Ernie said:


> Seeing as how illegal aliens with the potential for disease have always been here, all arguments about how this is a valid fear seem to be false.
> 
> Unless you are specifically saying that the Obama administration is seeking out diseased immigrants and bringing them here with the purpose of mass-infecting millions of Americans. Which I acknowledge could be a possibility with this admin.


I wouldn't put it past 'em!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

plowhand said:


> I wouldn't put it past 'em!


Let's see ... so far they gave guns to criminals with the intention of committing more gun violence, armed Syrian rebels who then moved to Iraq with those weapons and set up a new caliphate, and used the IRS to intimidate and punish American citizens with differing political views.

So I can't POSSIBLY imagine why you would think they would stoop so low as to bring in infected children as intentional plague carriers. 

Still though ... kids are kids. The government is using these kids, some of them sick, for political purposes. The conservatives out of power are using these kids to ramp up fear and collect donations for their candidates. 

Why don't we do the one thing nobody expects? Why don't we love, cherish, and care for those sick children? That would totally throw them for a loop.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

It's not the administration trying to scare the public. They're doing their level best to keep the media and politicians away from the "refugees". The medical staff is forbidden to bring phones or cameras into the centers, and warned not to talk to the press. Those that do, do so anonymously.

obama's lap dog media isn't paying any attention, I'm sure out of deference to their master.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out bringing masses of people from areas of the world where long forgotten diseases are prevalent could spell serious trouble.


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

Oh my. So...all those folks who come to america on vacation are different from these kids...how? India has a very high rate of tb. There is a reason persons going to nursing homes get chest xrays. Yep. Tb. It is a disease most commonly associated with crowded conditions and poor health. You can be exposed and your body encapsulates the bacterium till your resistance goes down and you develop the disease. Many of these kids may not be vaccinated. So let us do that for them. And of course for our own kids. A more likely illness that border towns suffer from is hepatitis.


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

Since we have vaccines and treatment for most of the diseases previously mentioned, I've been looking at other potential health issues. Apparently scabies is a real problem. Here are some links to stories detailing scabies, swine flu and other things the screeners are finding.

http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2014/05/illegal-aliens-pass-contagious-scabies-to-border-patrol-agents-on-texas-border-1000-illegals-per-day-too-many-to-screen/

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/07/03/Report-Four-Illegals-Turned-Away-from-CA-Town-Hospitalized-with-Scabies-Fever

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/02/medical-staff-warned-keep-quiet-about-illegal-immigrants-or-face-arrest/

As I stated in my original post, I wanted to focus on this subject from an S&EP view and not a political one. I know it's difficult to do that because this is a hot button topic. In linking to these stories, I'm doing it to show where I'm getting some of my info on the diseases we may have to prepare for, not because of any political aspect of the story.

So, since scabies appears to be prevalent with the illegal immigrants, how do we protect our home and family from them if carriers come into our community? 

There is a lot of information on the internet but prevention seems to be based on not coming into contact with it. So, if we hear that there is an outbreak in our community, wearing gloves when away from home might be one of the best preventative measures we could take, as well as wearing long sleeves with no visible skin showing (that'd be fun in August!). How about setting up a place outside the house - back porch, garage or somewhere private - where the outer clothes could be removed and dropped into a hamper to later be washed separately. We could then clean up before going inside with family.

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=104988

http://www.healthline.com/health/scabies#Treatment6


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Calico Katie said:


> So, since scabies appears to be prevalent with the illegal immigrants, how do we protect our home and family from them if carriers come into our community?


Since it's primary vector seems to be intercourse, then you should probably refrain from having sex with illegal immigrant children.


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## nebula5 (Feb 4, 2003)

Ernie said:


> Since it's primary vector seems to be intercourse, then you should probably refrain from having sex with illegal immigrant children.


Scabies is not sexually transmitted. I assume you're talking about Hep B & C?

Hep A is transmitted through feces- probably more of a problem in crowded, unhygienic conditions.


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## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

Ernie it's not an STD. Skin to skin contact transmits it--not just sexual intercourse. It can also be transmitted by sharing linens--bed linen, towels.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Tommyice said:


> Ernie it's not an STD. Skin to skin contact transmits it--not just sexual intercourse. It can also be transmitted by sharing linens--bed linen, towels.


So are those things any of you are likely to be doing with illegal immigrant children?


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

Scabies is a big 
deal in nursing homes. No more hugging grandma. Hepatitis a can be passed by someone not washing hands after using restroom. They touch something you put to your mouth...like a apple or a cup.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Ernie said:


> Since it's primary vector seems to be intercourse, then you should probably refrain from having sex with illegal immigrant children.


My oldest got scabies at the hospital by sitting in a chair an infected person had sat in. It's taken months to get rid of it. Fortunately it's summer so she can be confined at home. You can get lice and crabs the same way. Mumps is contagious outside the body for a long time. All you have to do is touch something contaminated (like a shopping cart).


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

My daughter got scabies from staying at a friends house who had it & we didn't know. It was/is treatable with a cream, but still a pain.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Ernie said:


> So are those things any of you are likely to be doing with illegal immigrant children?


Well, I suppose since you insist on loving and cherishing, you stand a good chance. 

Reserving hate for those you see as in power is not love.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

People who have little knowledge of common (for us) hygiene working minimum wage jobs in restaurants, warehouses, fields, etc. doesn't bode well for the public.

Remember typhoid Mary?
ETA: For those who don't remember her:
_Exactly how many people were infected or killed by her is not known. She refused to cooperate with health authorities, withheld information about her past, and used different pseudonyms when she changed cities. Three deaths have been definitively attributed to her, with estimates running as high as 50.[2]_
_Mallon was the first asymptomatic typhoid carrier to be identified by medical science, and there was no policy providing guidelines for handling the situation. Some difficulties surrounding her case stemmed from Mallon's vehement denial of her possible role, as she refused to acknowledge any connection between her working as a cook and the typhoid cases. Mallon maintained that she was perfectly healthy, had never had typhoid fever, and could not be the source. Public-health authorities determined that permanent quarantine was the only way to prevent Mallon from causing significant future typhoid outbreaks.[citation needed]_
_Other healthy typhoid carriers identified in the first quarter of the 20th century include Tony Labella, an Italian immigrant, presumed to have caused over 100 cases (with five deaths); an Adirondack guide dubbed "Typhoid John", presumed to have infected 36 people (with two deaths); and Alphonse Cotils, a restaurateur and bakery owner.[citation needed]_

She was an Irish immigrant, who told authorities she rarely washed her hands. She worked as a cook, both privately and commercially in the early 1900s.


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## badlander (Jun 7, 2009)

People who are spouting the word 'bogeyman' have obviously never dealt with a raging case of scabies, dysentery, HIV, TB, head lice, or other infectious disease in a patient. Most nurses who have worked in a nursing facility or even in a hospital have and know just how potentially contagious disease can be. I've seen elderly men and women covered in scabies, and yes, it does happen in our society. The treatment is usually effective, but even covered in surgical scrubs, hair covered, gloved and bootied, I've come home feeling crawly and wondering if just one of the little critters has escaped my treatment.

I thank God daily for being retired and away from it. I just cleaned all my scrubs out of the closet and donated them to charity. I won't be exposed to it on a daily basis any longer.

I haven't seen too much being written in the news about polio andwhooping cough but I bet it is out there.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

So in other words, all of the diseases and parasites y'all are claiming the illegal aliens are going to bring are _already here_.


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Ernie said:


> So in other words, all of the diseases and parasites y'all are claiming the illegal aliens are going to bring are _already here_.


They're all the 'white man' diseases that the Europeans brought with them when they invaded the new world and that they infected the natives with and nearly wiped out all the natives. Now the natives are bringing the white man's diseases back to them. I don't know how many other people recognize the almost karmic irony of it but I bet the ghosts of those long dead natives who died of small pox and TB and venereal diseases and the like are all rolling over laughing in their graves.


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## badlander (Jun 7, 2009)

Yes, of course they are here but the difference is in the education of the general public and the availability of medical care. Many public Schools in the US routinely do head lice checks on the young students. If lice are found, notes are being sent home to the parents telling them about Kwell and expecting them to 'see to the problem' before the child returns to class. They also tell the family about contamination and how to contain the infestation in their homes.

Fast forward to the indigenous poor of Mexico and South America who seldom see a doctor and who in many areas have to rely on mission based doctors for medical care. Illiteracy is common. Vaccination is not SOP as it is in the US and communicable disease is not unusual. There was an article on FOX recently, an interview with a border guard who voiced concern that some of the individuals who were being processed were being moved on to other locations and he had his doubts whether or not they were lice and scabies free at that point. What were they using to transport the individuals? Commercial buses and planes.

I don't know about you all but I sure am not going to fly or bus anywhere at this point.

Fennick has a point. The native Hawaiians were decimated by small pox and SID's when the islands were discovered. They had no natural immunity to even common virus's and epidemics were common.

As for lower standards of education, I clearly remember there being a salmonella outbreak in a spinach crop that was traced back to migrant workers who were evacuating their bowels in the spinach fields as they worked and going right back to picking the produce that was going to market.

Hand washing? Ya think? Basic hygiene? Nope. It is a matter of education. Maybe the farmers that are hiring the migrants need to educate them, but in the mean time as far as what is happening at the border I think that isolation and containment is almost a given.


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

Good lick with that. And yes I have worked with tb and aids and lice and scabies and and and..


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

I've been looking for helpful information for parents of young children. Haven't found much yet that specifically addresses that area but I did find this booklet printed for Utah daycare centers. While much of it will not be pertinent, it does include a pretty good list of contagious diseases with info on their incubation periods and symptoms.
http://health.utah.gov/epi/school_childcare/daycarebook.pdf

If your children attend public school, ask school officials what the district policy is concerning epidemics and disasters. The school district will likely have a website with most of this information available. How many children must be diagnosed with a contagious disease before they close the school? 
Those of you who homeschool, is it feasible for other parents to withdraw their children from public school for homeschooling on a temporary basis? I know nothing about how any of this is handled so info from all of you would be helpful.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

I just saw today that there are confirmed cases of resistant strains of TB in both Austin and San Antonia camps..concerning for sure...but my heart breaks for these children just being tossed over the border...I think how they must feel..abandoned by their own country and now unwanted in this new place. We as nation need to find a way to get a handle on this influx and quickly...we as individuals need to be compassionate and not let fear dictate our behavior


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Aintlifegrand said:


> I just saw today that there are confirmed cases of resistant strains of TB in both Austin and San Antonia camps..concerning for sure...but my heart breaks for these children just being tossed over the border...I think how they must feel..abandoned by their own country and now unwanted in this new place. We as nation need to find a way to get a handle on this influx and quickly...we as individuals need to be compassionate and not let fear dictate our behavior


If you read this discussion, I think you can see the problem.

It's a problem for people _in the system. _They're worried about their kids in public school, whether or not the government will bankrupt itself on illegal aliens and not pay the benefits that citizens expect, disease at the hospitals, and whether or not the hygiene in lettuce fields and fast food restaurants is up to par.

So if you're a lover of the system, totally in the system, then I can see how you would see these children as an attack on the system.

The question one should ask oneself then is "do I love the system more than I love Christ?" Apparently so, since so few appear to be willing to extend even verbal charity in this case. 

There's also the implied racism throughout. "All brown people from different cultures are dirty, have poor hygiene, carry disease, and are ignorant of modern healthcare concerns." That's heavily implied in this conversation.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Ernie ... If you pay property taxes you're in part of the system ? Property taxes pays for the pubic school system.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

TripleD said:


> Ernie ... If you pay property taxes you're in part of the system ? Property taxes pays for the pubic school system.


That's a false argument. If I get mugged tomorrow and a thief takes my money at gunpoint, it doesn't make me anymore a part of the system than paying property taxes does.

I pay property taxes so the government cartel doesn't send its paid assassins to come and kill me.


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

Many of you are probably familiar with the stories by Kathy in FL. She is a walking prepper encyclopedia. One of her early stories is about a family that went into quarantine because of an epidemic. If you have the time to read it, I think you'll find some great suggestions. She also puts a lot of recipes in her stories that may give you some ideas about how to use your food storage.

http://awilltosurvive.blogspot.com/2008/02/introduction.html


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

It is too bad that if you are any part a humanitarian you get flamed. Instead the persons who support violence and hatred get the most out of conversation like this.


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

badlander said:


> ... I haven't seen too much being written in the news about polio andwhooping cough but I bet it is out there.


I've been wondering about that, too. I'm of the generation before all the vaccinations that are now routinely given. I had polio and smallpox shots and a TB test. Polio is such a terrible disease. Even now, when I hear it mentioned I immediately see an iron lung.

Edited to correct: actually, they weren't shots. The polio vaccine was on a sugar cube and the small pox vaccination was the needle scratch. Like everybody in my age group, I have the round scar on my upper right arm.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Ernie said:


> If you read this discussion, I think you can see the problem.
> 
> It's a problem for people _in the system. _They're worried about their kids in public school, whether or not the government will bankrupt itself on illegal aliens and not pay the benefits that citizens expect, disease at the hospitals, and whether or not the hygiene in lettuce fields and fast food restaurants is up to par.
> 
> ...



So your assuming no "brown" people are concerned, upset and against illegal immigration? I guess I better let my family know they are on the wrong side.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

terri9630 said:


> So your assuming no "brown" people are concerned, upset and against illegal immigration? I guess I better let my family know they are on the wrong side.


Another brown skinned person who thinks it gives them the liberty to condemn their brothers and sisters.

It's one thing for a person of Irish descent to want to slam the door on those who want to come here today, but it's quite another for a Hispanic to want to do it. 

I'm not assuming anything. I'm quite aware that there's a lot of arrogance and entitlement amongst Hispanics who were lucky enough to be born here or who immigrated here before the doors begin to shut. 

Just like I'm aware that the loudest voices crying about how the illegal aliens are going to bankrupt the system are the disability/welfare/social security recipients who are _currently_ bankrupting the system.


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

I personally know Hispanic persons who wish the flow would stop. They are tired of being painted with that brush that labels them as law breakers, ignorant, uneducated, lazy, rapists?, thieves. Ect.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Ernie said:


> Another brown skinned person who thinks it gives them the liberty to condemn their brothers and sisters.
> 
> It's one thing for a person of Irish descent to want to slam the door on those who want to come here today, but it's quite another for a Hispanic to want to do it.
> 
> ...




Arrogant and entitled? How about people that believe the laws should be followed and not ignored. Why should some laws be enforced while others ignored. Or enforced on one group and not another? Weather you think they are just laws or not they are still the law.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

terri9630 said:


> Arrogant and entitled? How about people that believe the laws should be followed and not ignored. Why should some laws be enforced while others ignored. Or enforced on one group and not another? Weather you think they are just laws or not they are still the law.


Oh, I didn't know I was amongst people who believed that law trumped morality.

I'll quote Ammon Hennacy on this one:

"Oh judge! Your ---- laws! The good people don't need them, and the bad people don't obey them."


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I'll add that society needs more lawbreakers and less people like you, Terri, who claim you'll follow any law simply because it's the law (it's a lie, and you know it, but since you claimed it I'll let it stand. It's a lie, because if the government declared every illegal alien today to be a legal citizen, you'd still be complaining about it, even though it was now _the law_.)

All of the great horrors of governments perpetrated upon their citizens have been conducted because too many people obeyed the law and not enough broke it.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

If you don't like a law you can work to have it changed. I don't have a morality problem. I don't mind helping people who need it and ask for it. I do have a problem with people who think they are owed something simply because they don't have it. People that live in crappy places have allowed them to become that way and instead of trying to fix their problems at home they blame people that they think have it better. I'm not rich, but that isn't the fault of the guy down the road that has more than me. You can't make things better for people. They have to work at it themselves. 

Oh, and complaining about a law is a far cry from disobeying it. I don't like speed limits and complain about a few of them around here but still follow them. Since I don't want to deal with the consequences of a speeding ticket.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

terri9630 said:


> If you don't like a law you can work to have it changed. I don't have a morality problem. I don't mind helping people who need it and ask for it. I do have a problem with people who think they are owed something simply because they don't have it. People that live in crappy places have allowed them to become that way and instead of trying to fix their problems at home they blame people that they think have it better. I'm not rich, but that isn't the fault of the guy down the road that has more than me. You can't make things better for people. They have to work at it themselves.
> 
> Oh, and complaining about a law is a far cry from disobeying it. I don't like speed limits and complain about a few of them around here but still follow them. Since I don't want to deal with the consequences of a speeding ticket.


Heh. You crammed a lot of stuff in there so I'll just respond with the way I believe and let the chips fall where they may, as opposed to trying to pick apart that.

If I don't like a law, I don't obey it. Some laws I will obey, but only when there's someone standing by me with a gun. Other laws I would never obey under any circumstances, and when I've tried to be arrested for breaking them the cops fled from me. 

In my work with the poor, I haven't seen a lot of people who think they deserve something simply because they don't have it. In my time on the forums, I see all the time people thinking they deserve something because they don't have it ... such as liberty and freedom. Or sometimes thinking they deserve something _because _they have it, such as citizenship.

You can make things better for people. It's just that it's hard work and you don't get a lot of praise for it. Which is what some people are after. When they don't get it, they manufacture reasons why they shouldn't do it again.

Well, that's it. And I'm sorry if this thread pricked your conscience. Well, maybe not sorry. Maybe that was the purpose of my caring enough about this topic to post in the first place. There are some good people whose minds might be changed, and some people masquerading as good whose minds won't be. 

I was here and I spoke up for those who had no voice, so my work is done.


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

Here is a list of the disaster preparedness plans for each state. I haven't looked at all of them but they will probably each have a section on family preparedness. This is the page from the Texas website.
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/preparedness/e-prep_public.shtm

You can also check the websites of your city and county for information about your community. 

There is confirmation of tuberculosis in the camps in San Antonio. From what we've been told, it sounds like screening is hit or miss because the agents aren't medically trained. 
http://www.peoplespunditdaily.com/2014/07/07/news-events/politics/border-patrol-union-confirms-illegal-immigrants-spreading-scabies-tb-also-reported/


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Ernie said:


> ... Why don't we love, cherish, and care for those sick children? That would totally throw them for a loop.


Here's a group of those children. Pick the ones you want and go for it. 










Or here's a single one you can take home so you won't have to choose from the group. 










Keep in mind that some of them have admitted to murder and torture and they started as young as age 8. I hope they don't bite the hand that feeds them.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Coming to live near you..... since he's no longer in custody and just has a court date.


http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...legal-Alien-with-Tuberculosis-Ignored-by-Feds


Medical Center (UMC) of El Paso. -
Dr. Elizabeth Lee Vliet--a preventive medicine physician and former Director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS)--has practices in Arizona and Texas. Vliet claimed that one of her patients, whose name can not be disclosed for confidentiality reasons, called her with fears that the TB-positive immigrant was putting other lives at risk.-
Vliet said her patient informed her that ICE and DHS would not take the illegal immigrant--who was previously deported but is now back in the U.S.--into custody.-


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Ernie said:


> ... So if you're a lover of the system, totally in the system, then I can see how you would see these children as an attack on the system. ...


Ernie, it appears you are misunderstanding the fact that many here are seeing this as an attack on our children. I think very few of us "love the system". 

I don't understand how you can attack parents who want to protect their children from deadly diseases that are being carried into our country and into our schools. I sincerely hope that you are taking steps to protect you and yours from the danger, at the very least protect them from the incurable deadly diseases that are coming in.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Spinner said:


> Ernie, it appears you are misunderstanding the fact that many here are seeing this as an attack on our children. I think very few of us "love the system".
> 
> I don't understand how you can attack parents who want to protect their children from deadly diseases that are being carried into our country and into our schools. I sincerely hope that you are taking steps to protect you and yours from the danger, at the very least protect them from the incurable deadly diseases that are coming in.


The children are going through a medical eval in these centers..they will not be allowed in school if they have any communicable diseases. Resistant strain TB requires complete quarantine. All children here have to have all vacs before entering any public school..after living in Texas when I had school age children I know they are the same..I think the argument that sick kids will be in public schools is a weak one as do I think the pictures above are put out to incite fear and Im not even sure they are from these places in which are being discussed


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Aintlifegrand said:


> The children are going through a medical eval in these centers..they will not be allowed in school if they have any communicable diseases. Resistant strain TB requires complete quarantine. All children here have to have all vacs before entering any public school..after living in Texas when I had school age children I know they are the same..I think the argument that sick kids will be in public schools is a weak one as do I think the pictures above are put out to incite fear and Im not even sure they are from these places in which are being discussed



In normal times your right. Right now half the evaluations are being done by non medical personel and are going to the hospital only if they have obvious symptoms. An illegal man was just turned loose in El Paso with active drug resistant TB. The schools here will bring in a nurse to give vaccines for families who can't afford them, BUT the kids are allowed to attend school until it can be arranged. Obvious cases of lice will be sent home but are allowed back as soon as the parent says they washed their hair with some medicated shampoo.

I was just corrected. Only a visual med check is done during normal times. By non med people.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Well even if that all is the way it is happening everywhere..the reality is people are being exposed right now to all sorts of things...each year we have numerous tb exposures at our hospital...lice and scabies have been around longer than this humanitarian crisis...this all from american citizens..and people who travel abroad entering this country with passports..so there is no way to keep your children from being exposed to all sorts of things..unless you homeschool and keep them away from publuc gatherings..even if you round up all these children and send them home...there will always be diseases. I still say it is a weak argument against helping. I just think people need to be honest about what they have against the crisis..they simply dont want them here..even if there were no threat of disease.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I don't mind helping children, making them pawns and putting them in institutions is not helping children, IMO. Encouraging parents to send their children with coyotes to another country so the whole family can come is not only wrong, it endangers many more kids that follow them. Older teens that are not considered children in their own country are another story. They should simply get a ride to the airport and flown home. I would take custody of the little kids and put them up for adoption. We would loose custody of our kids if we did that--why should people be allowed to endanger their kids just because they are not citizens.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Molly Mckee said:


> I don't mind helping children, making them pawns and putting them in institutions is not helping children, IMO. Encouraging parents to send their children with coyotes to another country so the whole family can come is not only wrong, it endangers many more kids that follow them. Older teens that are not considered children in their own country are another story. They should simply get a ride to the airport and flown home. *I would take custody of the little kids and put them up for adoption*. We would loose custody of our kids if we did that--why should people be allowed to endanger their kids just because they are not citizens.


They need to go back to their own families not There are already lots of kids waiting to be adopted or to find foster families.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Molly Mckee said:


> I don't mind helping children, making them pawns and putting them in institutions is not helping children, IMO. Encouraging parents to send their children with coyotes to another country so the whole family can come is not only wrong, it endangers many more kids that follow them. Older teens that are not considered children in their own country are another story. They should simply get a ride to the airport and flown home. I would take custody of the little kids and put them up for adoption. We would loose custody of our kids if we did that--why should people be allowed to endanger their kids just because they are not citizens.


According to the government now anyone 26 and under are children. Its in obamacare!


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

As Im not a nationalist I dont mind who goes where on this land that belongs only to God...and I do hate the thought of unaccompanied children because of tge safety risk to them but as a Christian I am bound to help in any way I can. What really upsets me the most though is the undertones of racism going on in this country..not necessarily on this forum. Im talking in general. I fear that if this kinds of commentary continues we will raise a generation that thinks of south..central americans as dirty and disease ridden people..much like the Germans thought about the Jewish people..or the whites thought about the black people in our own history..I just want people of this country to stop the hateful rhetoric of innocent people...its not what we should be doing imo


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

What I've noticed in the past few years is how easy it has become to accuse someone else of being a racist just because they disagree with you. I knew when I made my original post that there would probably be a couple of comments along that line. I'm impressed that it has been minimal. These children are illegally being brought into the country. Many of them are diseased and from all indications, they're being moved around the country with next to no medical treatment. This overload is a threat to my family, state and country. If the orphanages of Romania were emptied and boatloads of those "white" children appeared on the Texas coast, I would be saying The Exact Same Thing. Refuse them entry and send them back.

If we set aside billions of dollars to take care of these children who are being illegally brought into the country that sends the message that it's true - that if children are sent here, we'll take them in and take care of them. Instead, set aside a few million dollars to take them back to their homes. If you'll notice, Mexico is doing nothing to stop these kids from traveling through Mexico to get here. So tell me again how this is not a planned attack on this country. In some countries, our enemies will strap bombs to their own small children to kill our soldiers. In my opinion, these kids are being used the same way. This is not a humanitarian crisis in the US, it's a humanitarian crisis in these kids home countries. Does anybody really believe Central America will take these kids back willingly?

So, let's be mighty careful about accusing someone of being a racist because they don't want illegal, diseased children and their adult family members travelling with them, scattered through the country and being taken care of by our government. Let's be mighty careful about accusing others of being heartless because they want to protect their own families. If you are that concerned about these children, I'm pretty sure you could get your name on a list and have a few of them brought to your house so you could care for them. 

We discuss "what if" scenarios all the time on this forum. This is a real SHTF scenario that has to be addressed. I would be a hypocrite to refuse to face it head on and discuss it because I wanted to be PC. It sucks to be us, folks, because we're not going to come out of this looking like the knight in shining armor no matter how it turns out. We've been set up.

So, what are we going to do about it? You don't have to post your answer but you do need to decide.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Aintlifegrand said:


> As Im not a nationalist I dont mind who goes where on this land that belongs only to God...and I do hate the thought of unaccompanied children because of tge safety risk to them but as a Christian I am bound to help in any way I can. What really upsets me the most though is the undertones of racism going on in this country..not necessarily on this forum. Im talking in general. I fear that if this kinds of commentary continues we will raise a generation that thinks of south..central americans as dirty and disease ridden people..much like the Germans thought about the Jewish people..or the whites thought about the black people in our own history..I just want people of this country to stop the hateful rhetoric of innocent people...its not what we should be doing imo


As a Christian your second responsibility is to your family, not people doing illegal things for personal gain. You might want to do some Bible study, don't claim Christianity as a reason to hurt people, those that are Americans and those that are sending their children with criminals to gain economic status. Things in most of central America are not much worse than they have been, people are being promised citizenship here, so they are coming. And they are sending their children alone, with criminals, illegally, to a bad situation, where the children will suffer.


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

As the OP, I'm making an executive decision. No more religious discussion about this. We may be going into the darkest days of our lives in this country and every citizen is going to have to follow their own conscience. This is not a time to point fingers and argue about semantics. You either believe or you don't but how your conscience leads you is between you and God. Don't allow the ways you disagree to consume you and become greater than what you do agree about.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Or maybe you will be chastised for not taking care of the family God blessed you with. 

This is not a Christian decision, It's one for Americans. Our country and all it stood for is being attacked, with the intent to destroy. Look at everything that will be lost if we become another third world country. We have given more to more people than any other country in the history of the world. Those that would take our place as the world leader will not continue to do that.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Molly Mckee said:


> Or maybe you will be chastised for not taking care of the family God blessed you with.
> 
> This is not a Christian decision, It's one for Americans. Our country and all it stood for is being attacked, with the intent to destroy. Look at everything that will be lost if we become another third world country. We have given more to more people than any other country in the history of the world. Those that would take our place as the world leader will not continue to do that.


Taking care of ones family includes teaching compassion and charity..I see no conflict in doing both...I however believe all decisions are Christian decisions..and never will I ever make a so called "American" decision not based completely on Christs teachings...your choice is of course yours to make based on your own beliefs.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

notwyse said:


> It is too bad that if you are any part a humanitarian you get flamed. Instead the persons who support violence and hatred get the most out of conversation like this.


That remark seems pretty flaming and certainly non humane.


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