# attention atheists: looking for help!



## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

I have a new website with a simple purpose of giving a face to atheism to counteract the negative propaganda about us. I need profiles from brave atheists all over the country and I want some homesteaders!

You can go to the sight meetatheism.org and submit a profile with several pictures to use on a slide show for your region. I use first names only, will edit for grammar and spelling and any offensive content (be nice, this isn't about attacking religion). 

If you would prefer to make your own, that is fine. I use word, one page, at least 3 pics and please follow the same guidelines you find on the submission page of the website as far as content goes. Send me a note through the suggestions page and I will give you an email addy to send it to. If you can save it in paint as a jpg that would be great but I can convert it if necessary.

also, the website is still under construction and I am very open to suggestions about everything! (except suggestions to go to H*** and that sort of thing )if you find any errors please don't hesitate to notify me through the suggestions page! thanks!

for the rest of you ....Please don't send me a bunch of religous BS :nana:. thanks!


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## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

DQ, what an interesting project. I like the intent. There are a number of pretty unabashed atheists who post here and hopefully some will be willing to help you out. Good luck with it.

It will be fun to see your website when it is closer to finished. Is the Oklahoma profile yours?


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Perhaps you would share with me an example or two of that negative propaganda. I'm not sure what you speak of.


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

thank you Scott. 

Vicker. Some churches teach that atheists are immoral, materialistic, hedonistic satan-worshipping freaks. An atheist friend actually had someone ask her if atheists are really cannibals (eat babies for ritual actually!) you might be surprised what some people, who are uhmm...susceptable, are led to believe. 

Many people think that Christianity is the root of all goodness and morals. They can't seem to fathom that someone who doesn't believe in god could possibly have a moral compass or lead a happy fulfilling life. Bush has been quoted as saying that atheists aren't citizens or patriots! can you imagine what would have happened if he had said that about Jews, women or African Americans!?? 

Atheists have been shown to be one of the most detested minorities in America according to some polls!

yes. the okla profile is mine


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Well, I have a big problem with "Christians" myself  I need to find a new name for my religion. It seems most "Christians" don't read their Bibles. So, if you were to eat a baby, how would you cook it?


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## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

vicker said:


> Well, I have a big problem with "Christians" myself  I need to find a new name for my religion. It seems most "Christians" don't read their Bibles. So, if you were to eat a baby, how would you cook it?


We pan fry ours - in baby oil, of course.


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## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

vicker said:


> Perhaps you would share with me an example or two of that negative propaganda. I'm not sure what you speak of.


I'm not sure there is propaganda behind it, but i was asked just a couple of weeks ago by a sincere Christian I know only in passing, "If you don't believe in the Bible, what keeps you from just knocking girls down and raping them in the street?". I wasn't offended, but instead found the question to be fascinating and fairly revealing. Seriously, I get some variation of "How can you tell right from wrong" maybe in ten percent of conversations in which I let slip that I have no religious faith.


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

vicker said:


> Well, I have a big problem with "Christians" myself  I need to find a new name for my religion. It seems most "Christians" don't read their Bibles. So, if you were to eat a baby, how would you cook it?


No need for a name or a label for your beliefs! it is a bit silly that us non god believers have to have a name. I mean....we don't' have a name for people who don't believe in kidnapping body probing aliens. we don't have a special name for people who don't believe in the boogey man or those who don't believe in ghosts! why do we need a name for those who don't believe we are the special pets of a supernatural power! 

alas, us non god believing folk have a label and it is atheist and we have to work with it as best as possible...

I prefer my baby slow cooked....you gotta melt off all that fat.....unless they were like my babies....born like little creepy skeletons....:smack


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## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

................


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Hey guys. I am a Christian. This post is to the Christians. I think that atheists should not be posting rude remarks or try to make fun of Christians and our beliefs and it really bugs me when they do. We need to give them the same respect that we ask of them. I just wanted to say this before any word slinging takes place. I will not post anymore in this thread.


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## HeelSpur (May 7, 2011)

My mom is a christian and my dad an atheist,
they get along just fine, 53 years and counting.

To many name calling silly people in this world.


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## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

Possum Belly said:


> Hey guys. I am a Christian. This post is to the Christians. I think that atheists should not be posting rude remarks or try to make fun of Christians and our beliefs and it really bugs me when they do. We need to give them the same respect that we ask of them. I just wanted to say this before any word slinging takes place. I will not post anymore in this thread.


Edited: Possum Belly, thanks. I really like your sentiment and appreciate the post.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Can another Christian speak up in here? I agree that many people have the wrong concept of atheists. People are people. Just because you don't agree with me regarding my faith it doesn't mean I believe you are evil. I know people from all faiths, and no faith. Well, that's not really true, because even atheists beleive in something. Too often Christian's do act superior to those who aren't. IMO, we're all basically the same. Even the Bible tells us we're all born in sin, so for a Christian to judge another because they believe the person is a sinner they are missing the whole point of their own salvation. Sorry you guys come across so many ignorant people.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

The problem with the negative stereotypes is that many of them are not arrived at logically, so you won't be able to combat them using logic. For example, I often hear people talking about how bad Madalyn Murray O'Hair was, and almost every time I ask the person saying it when they met her. The vast majority of them NEVER met her, but their minister told them how evil she was. No amount of logic will fight that kind of thinking.:viking:


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## chickenslayer (Apr 20, 2010)

Wotan doesn't have any problem with atheism


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## demeter (Jul 15, 2010)

Good stuff, DQ. For what it is worth, I won't be contributing simply because I only do one site and it is this one. I had stalker issues years ago and don't want an encore, so I tread lightly. Are ya'll familiar with the site "Positive Atheism"? I read on it, particularly the "de-conversion" section. There is another site itself called "De-Conversion" that is interesting as well.
Yes, Mrs O'Hair has been mentioned to me many times. She is not my voice, nor is Darwin. I got my own thing going and will be my own spokesperson.
I barbeque my babies. I also kick baby chickens in the creek.

Demeter


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## FeralFemale (Apr 10, 2006)

I often hear or read ridiculous stuff about my religion. I have learned how and when to correct people on facts or ignore, as needed. Most people simply don't have the facts and are not the ones you need to worry about. Others who spout the most heinous lies and ridiculous beliefs are a lost cause, and you should ignore them.

Your website is a good idea, but your target audience is not going to care what facts you present nor will they seek out your website to begin with. I am not poo pooing your idea. I just think that the large majority of your target is likely in the 'ignore' column.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

I consider myself more of a non-theist and agnostic than an atheist. I have mixed feelings about this, although I can definitely appreciate your intent. To my mind, atheists who want to proselytize and convince everyone of their views are almost as obnoxious as religious people who do the same. I say "almost", because at least you do not see atheists preaching on TV or asking for money or threatening eternal ----ation....

But yeah, we definitely have an image problem. :-(


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

News Flash! You can have christian values without a Bible.


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

chickenslayer said:


> Wotan doesn't have any problem with atheism


No, And neither does Thor or Tyr.

:viking:


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

lonelytree said:


> News Flash! You can have Christian values without a Bible.


Christian "values"? They are largely Jewish values. Which were Babylonian values. Christians are the new guys on the block and added little to the "belief" systems. If anything it can be argued that the edited the old values to suit there daily needs.

Eye for an Eye.. Tooth for a tooth. are all passÃ©' now. for instance.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

To the op.

I like your site and good luck!


Tho, I do believe most Christians will give you one of two responces...

One...
Your preaching blasphemy and need to be crushed or at least silenced.
two.
You haven't heard about our special way of interacting with god! So we need to tell you all about it to save you.


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## fishinshawn (Nov 8, 2010)

I'm an atheist, but I prefer to keep a low profile. I don't even have my real name or picture up on Facebook. I like your idea, but like others have said for many people it will fall on deaf ears. The funny thing is I have talked a good deal to many pastors and priests, they haven't tried to convert me. I have even had mormons come up to the door and invited them in and talked for awhile. 

The only ones I have ever had an issue with are normally the "christians", who don't really even seem to know the bible they seem to talk about. 

I believe there are many paths to the same goal....


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

Thank you all for your input and for being very very polite! 

falling on deaf ears for most yes. A lot of the atheist websites can be pretty off putting to someone just curious though. They can be downright RABID. and I certainly can too  And they often have lots of technical philosophical arguments that are just over the head of many people. I was thinking that pictures and simple statements better capture the everyday atheist, in comparison to the busy and complicated websites devoted to atheism. 

Also, I am convinced that there are a lot of closet atheists out there and because we have to be careful about expressing our beliefs in public it is hard for someone "new" to it or questioning their beliefs to find a place to fit in. I have recently "come out of the closet" here in the south and it is a bit scary. previously just my dh, a few close friends and our local freethinkers group were my only "safe havens" but I am tired of having to sit back and listen to people tell me about Jesus (seemingly everywhere and for no reason) while I sit there awkwardly and listen.

I think more people need to "come out". It seems there is a double standard. It fine to talk about your faith, but it is gasp inducing impolite to talk about your lack of faith! 

It is an unfortunate problem to even discuss theism vs. non theism. One can hardly express their position without implying that the other side doesn't have any good reason for theirs! I enjoy a good debate though and I don't shy away from my reasons for being an atheist in online discussions. Unfortunately there is no way to explain my reasons for being an atheist without necessarily pointing out the problems with religion! 

A religious person might say they are christian because they trust the bible and give the reasons why. that doesn't come off as an attack on an atheists core beliefs. Atheists just don't see it that way (imo), their core beliefs are not based on something that can be wholesale refuted with a few simple points.

an atheist will say they aren't christan because they don't trust the bible and give the reasons why they don't trust it. That comes off as an attack on Christians because it draws into question every one of their beliefs, a whole sale dissing of everything they believe! I am sure it comes off as insulting whether it means to be or not.

It is nearly impossible to make an argument for atheism without insulting religion!


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

I am an atheist.
Raised by a Doctor of Theology and minister, so I know my bible and am not ignorant of biblical teachings.
I too have had issues with aggressively negative (see how nicely I put that?) Christians.

I choose for the most part to live in the closet because it is worse to be an atheist than to be a homosexual as far as negative comments and repurcussions. 

Even the KKK members can be found in the 3rd pew come Sunday morning, you know? And most of the gays that I know here can be found in church on Sunday mornings, so they must be OK too. But I am not, thus I am apart and a danger.

I chose atheism because I feel that the wonderful old grandmothers in Tibet who have lovingly cared for their families and neighbors their whole lives and have never done a bad thing are not doomed to spend eternity burning in hell, while the mass murderer who gets to say he's sorry at teh last minute gets to go to this heavenly ideal.
I do not believe in heaven or hell, but I do disagree with the concepts as listed above.

I believe that inward facing religions where you are asked to know yourself, understand yourself in order to find your place within the world adn all of it's beings makes more sense than outward facing religion where you are to look to another force to tell you who you are and where you fit and how you are not supposed to fit with some people at all. Though I am not a follower of inward facing philosophies either.
That and I freakin love science! 

And I am kinder, more open and giving, less judgemental and accusatory and just plain nicer in general than any christian that I know.
Some very nice people are christians and they do wonderful things ... but then they slip and an unkindness, a judgement, an exclusion will slip from their mouths in the name of christianity.
It is a bias that I do not have so it cannot come into my mind adn then slip from my mouth or show in my actions.
I can stay open and true because I am unslanted in that way.

If I am judgemental etc.. it is because the essence of that person is a certain way and not because the bible tells me I am to dislike or judge that person based on something entirely irrelevant...like where they choose to spend their Sunday mornings and Wednesday nights. Myself?? I like Criminal Minds on a Wednesday night and a lazy, slow cup of coffee in the morning sun on a Sunday.

Funny that DQ mentioned living in the closet at the same time I did....


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## acde (Jul 25, 2011)

I am a christian and I do believe people who don't believe in God can lead good moral lives. I hope nothing but the best for you.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

chamoisee said:


> I consider myself more of a non-theist and agnostic than an atheist. I have mixed feelings about this, although I can definitely appreciate your intent. To my mind, atheists who want to proselytize and convince everyone of their views are almost as obnoxious as religious people who do the same. I say "almost", because at least you do not see atheists preaching on TV or asking for money or threatening eternal ----ation....
> 
> But yeah, we definitely have an image problem. :-(


The American Atheists program broadcasts on some public access cable TV channels.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

chickenista said:


> I chose atheism because I feel that the wonderful old grandmothers in Tibet who have lovingly cared for their families and neighbors their whole lives and have never done a bad thing are not doomed to spend eternity burning in hell, while the mass murderer who gets to say he's sorry at teh last minute gets to go to this heavenly ideal.
> .


Just for the record there are Christian religions that believe the same as you on the above.


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## Tabitha (Apr 10, 2006)

stanb999 said:


> Eye for an Eye.. Tooth for a tooth. are all passÃ©' now. for instance.


Unfortunately. Of course now it is so much better, smarter, humane, and expensive. Now you lock somebody up in a hellhole of a prison at taxpayer's expense. In the old days , An eye for an eye, you make good for the damage you did. How much does an eye cost? A tooth is not such a big deal. If someone knocks your teeth out, do they pay the dentist for your new dentures at least? 
Excuse me for sidestepping the issue.


I think if Atheists want to congregate, why should Christians be in on the discussion? Leave them to it. BTW, the emoticon was not nice to include DQ, looks like nya nya nya nya nya na. Why include it?


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

FourDeuce said:


> The problem with the negative stereotypes is that many of them are not arrived at logically, so you won't be able to combat them using logic. For example, I often hear people talking about how bad Madalyn Murray O'Hair was, and almost every time I ask the person saying it when they met her. The vast majority of them NEVER met her, but their minister told them how evil she was. No amount of logic will fight that kind of thinking.:viking:


I base my opinion of MMO on the writings of her own son, and on the details of her own demise. Truly an evil wicked woman. Look it up.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

tinknal said:


> I base my opinion of MMO on the writings of her own son,
> 
> 
> *Yeah, the son she disowned? I'm sure he was completely honest and unbiased in everything he wrote.* ound:
> ...


*WHICH details? She was kidnapped and murdered. Do you always call people who are kidnapped and murdered "evil wicked people"? I don't need to look it up. I've been a member of American Atheists since 1984, a Life Member since 1989, and I met her at two of the conventions. *


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

FourDeuce said:


> The problem with the negative stereotypes is that many of them are not arrived at logically, so you won't be able to combat them using logic.


I agree, actually. I am a hard-core Christian and embrace, or attempt to embrace, all levels of it into my life. That doesn't make me automatically perfect or anything, of course, but I believe you've hit the nail on the head.
I cannot say that I agree with atheism, but that is because I am not an atheist. However, I do not think that are going to Hades simply due to lack of faith, and I see them as just normal people.
Most people react emotionally to atheism. They have been raised with Christianity so long, even examining anything else is alien and foreign to them. However, I have examined my religion. I have questioned it, studied it, disected it. Some would say I was rather disrespectful, I should just take it all at face value. But, as a result, my faith is far stronger now.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Heritagefarm said:


> I have examined my religion. I have questioned it, studied it, disected it. Some would say I was rather disrespectful, I should just take it all at face value. But, as a result, my faith is far stronger now.


 Two thumbs up! I love science too and can marvel at the complexity of a maple seed for hours! There I see the hand of God. I would, however, never try to push my beliefs on anyone, ever. To tell the truth, it's been a rough and rocky road  But, many hear but few are called.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

And speaking of stereotypes...not all atheists are rabid religion haters that say angry, hateful things and discuss the evils of religion all the time.

For me, part of being an atheist is not having to think about religion.
So that means that my day is spent not thinking about it, talking about it or acting against it.

Ther are folks that think that we spend our days plotting the downfall of religion or railing and marching against it etc..
Simply not true.

I only think about religion when it is brought to my attention. This is one of the reasons I very rarely read on the lower section of HT anymore. I don't want to think about religion.
But if christians wanted atheist to be all quiet and go away, don't poke at us..just do your thing and we will do ours. But ya'll keep making the news all the time and we keep having to think about it.. meh.

And not all atheists think that O'Hair was all that and an order of fries.
She has nothing to do with my beliefs or anything else. She was before my time and I only know of her in the vaguest terms. So no cult followation here....


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

chickenista said:


> AFor me, part of being an atheist is not having to think about religion.
> So that means that my day is spent not thinking about it, talking about it or acting against it....


I am not an atheist, but I could not agree more. Myself, friends, family members, most agnostic, atheist or simply non-religious, never even think of religion in a normal day. Just normal, kind, professional, people doing their best to focus on their career, raising a family, whatever. I was actually raised to believe that bringing up religion and politics in mixed company is very rude and tacky/wacky. 

There is a great and beautiful freedom in waking up each day without dogma to cloud your mind and interfere with totally free and rational thinking. There is no thinking about being punished in hell, no believing in hell, no bad thoughts judging others for what they may or may not do outside of religious boundaries. 

Years ago I had a friend in school that got all teary eyed telling me that she felt so bad knowing I was going to Hell. My only response was that I also felt bad knowing that she belonged to a group that caused her emotional pain by teaching her that other people were ----ed to hell if they did not share her beliefs.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

vicker said:


> many hear but few are called.


This type of exclusivity in thinking is exactly what pushes many people away from organized religion. Many people do not believe that only a chosen few sit at the right hand of god with a hotline to his private line. Religion to many is like a high school social club where members proclaim themselves to be popular or special or saved. The outside world rarely sees it that way.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

FourDeuce said:


> *WHICH details? She was kidnapped and murdered. Do you always call people who are kidnapped and murdered "evil wicked people"? I don't need to look it up. I've been a member of American Atheists since 1984, a Life Member since 1989, and I met her at two of the conventions. *


Not taking the bait. Seems like a good thread so I'm not going to hijack it.

If you want to start a thread on her feel free, I will respond there.


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

Hmm.......Well I'm not an Atheist, nor a Christian. I don't fit in either camp. I began many years ago, as a Christian, a very active Roman Catholic, Christian. I read the Bible through several times. So.........
Now, I am a PolyTheist. I believe in many Gods...and Goddesses. We have a little joke among us, that, "Christianity is more than Half way to Atheism, because they deny the existence of so many of the Gods". But I believe that Atheists are entitled to their Belief, also.

We don't deny the existence of the Christian/Jewish God, Jehovah/JAWEH. We believe he is one of many Gods. He started out as a tribal God of the Tribe of Judah. He is a jealous God who demanded that His followers deny every other God or Goddess, and wipe out Their followers. He has been very successful, in his pursuit of domination.

We believe that all Gods are Cultural Expressions of a People, a Folk. Most ancient religions are Folk religions, in that respect.
The only religions that are not Folk Religions are the Big Three Universal World religions, Christianity, Buddhism and Islam. and, even the Gods of the Big 3 World religions began as Folk Gods and Folk religions, with Gods that belonged to a People, a Culture.

I've studied this Religion thing for a long time, all my life. I know that when I die, I will rest with the Ancestors. I have no fear of Hel. I am an honorable man. I lead a good life. I deal honestly with my fellow man, in all things. I have respect for All things in Nature. 
(ETA......... I Honor the Ancestral Gods of my Ancient European Ancestors. Odin/Woden, Thor, Tyr, Frigga, Freyja, Freyr, Idunna and many others of that Northern European Pantheon or Family of Gods.


I do not mean to disparage any one's Belief. I mean only to state mine.
Enjoy Life!


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

John, the problem with this view is that it seems that you think that "gods" are human creations, which would mean that there are no gods.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

Old John said:


> "Christianity is more than Half way to Atheism, because they deny the existence of so many of the Gods".


You have probably heard the saying: "The only difference between Christians and Atheists is that Christians have rejected one less god".

A Christian arbitrarily rejects thousands of other religion's gods as imaginary, many of which are from religions that have "existed" for thousands of years before Christianity came to be, and chooses to believe in one of them. 

Stephen F. Roberts: 



> "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Haven said:


> You have probably heard the saying: "The only difference between Christians and Atheists is that Christians have rejected one less god".
> 
> A Christian arbitrarily rejects thousands of other religion's gods as imaginary, many of which are from religions that have "existed" for thousands of years before Christianity came to be, and chooses to believe in one of them.
> 
> Stephen F. Roberts:


If all religions are invalid then why do atheists so often single out Christianity?


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

tinknal said:


> If all religions are invalid then why do atheists so often single out Christianity?


In part, because it's politically incorrect to condemn Judaism or Islam.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Haven said:


> This type of exclusivity in thinking is exactly what pushes many people away from organized religion. Many people do not believe that only a chosen few sit at the right hand of god with a hotline to his private line. Religion to many is like a high school social club where members proclaim themselves to be popular or special or saved. The outside world rarely sees it that way.


That is a stereotype example. Some Christians may see their church as a social club. However, they cannot be judged because it simply does not matter: What is their faith; it is between them and our God.
What is wrong with having one true God? I believe other religions have some merit to them, yet they have but a part of the truth...


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

Heritage, you took my post out of context. I was replying directly to one person here who said "  few are called". I was not trying to stereotype an entire group of people, that is why I used the word "many" not "all".

I never said there was anything wrong with having one true god; not sure where you read that.

Tnknal. I do not personally know atheists that single out Christianity, but most non religious people will choose to respond to any religion that goes against freedom of thought, science, personal freedoms, etc. I'm sure an actual atheist could provide a more thorough answer.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

tinknal said:


> If all religions are invalid then why do atheists so often single out Christianity?


Here in the US there seems to be one religious group which seems intent on "taking back" the US. Wanna guess which religion that is?:fussin:


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Haven said:


> Heritage, you took my post out of context. I was replying directly to one person here who said "  few are called". I was not trying to stereotype an entire group of people, that is why I used the word "many" not "all".
> 
> I never said there was anything wrong with having one true god; not sure where you read that.
> 
> Tnknal. I do not personally know atheists that single out Christianity, but most non religious people will choose to respond to any religion that goes against freedom of thought, science, personal freedoms, etc. I'm sure an actual atheist could provide a more thorough answer.


When I discuss religion, I don't single any one of them out. When I say "religion", I include ALL of them. I'm an Equal Opportunity atheist.:dance:


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

FourDeuce said:


> Here in the US there seems to be one religious group which seems intent on "taking back" the US. Wanna guess which religion that is?:fussin:


Oh I know what religion that is. It's called "Islam".


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

tinknal said:


> If all religions are invalid then why do atheists so often single out Christianity?


Probably because it's the largest and loudest religion in the world.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

DQ said:


> (be nice, this isn't about attacking religion).
> thanks!


Oh well lol! Y'all have fun.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

FourDeuce said:


> *WHICH details? She was kidnapped and murdered. Do you always call people who are kidnapped and murdered "evil wicked people"? I don't need to look it up. I've been a member of American Atheists since 1984, a Life Member since 1989, and I met her at two of the conventions. *


You met her for what, 5 minutes tops? Her son LIVED with her! BTW, he's said on the record that the prayer he had to recite in school was indeed unconstitutional.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

naturelover said:


> Probably because it's the largest and loudest religion in the world.


To me a lot of "atheism" comes off (to me) as more like anti-Christianity. Hardly ever see atheists attack Hinduism, Buddhism, pagans, etc.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

tinknal said:


> To me a lot of "atheism" comes off (to me) as more like anti-Christianity. Hardly ever see atheists attack Hinduism, Buddhism, pagans, etc.


I recently unfriended a distant relative on Facebook because he was spamming the board doing exactly this. He's also had a lot of problems at more than one job for preaching anti-Christianity. If the things he's posted and said about Christians and Christianity were said about Jews and Judaism, both he and the people who wrote them in the first place, in the case of links, would have law enforcement knocking on their door in short order.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

thesedays said:


> I recently unfriended a distant relative on Facebook because he was spamming the board doing exactly this. He's also had a lot of problems at more than one job for preaching anti-Christianity. If the things he's posted and said about Christians and Christianity were said about Jews and Judaism, both he and the people who wrote them in the first place, in the case of links, would have law enforcement knocking on their door in short order.


Well, I would venture to guess that about half of anti-Judaism is Islamic in nature, and most of the rest is misguided Christianity.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

tinknal said:


> To me a lot of "atheism" comes off (to me) as more like anti-Christianity.
> 
> Hardly ever see atheists attack Hinduism, Buddhism, pagans, etc.


Well yeah, but maybe you're sensitive to it because you're a Christian. 

Christianity is the loudest religion and those other religions aren't. Kind of like a shouting match, athiests are going to try to shout down the loudest opponent so why shout down somebody that's already subdued?

For what it's worth though, I have seen many atheists go ballistic on the other lesser religions as well, and on anything that smacks of magic, spirituality or supra-natural, and on natural medicines/healing and anything non-scientific. So I don't think it's entirely an anti-Christian thing.

.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

naturelover said:


> Christianity is the loudest religion and those other religions aren't.
> 
> .


I think Islam is louder........... *(BOOM)*


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

I think many atheists in the united states tend to single out christianity because it is nearer to home. I don't feel the influence of islam or judaism (except as it relates to christianty) in my life. yet I do feel and see the influence of christianity in the news and legislation. though other religions may have the same views, in the U.S. it is christian groups that tend to be averse to homosexuality, abortion rights, stem cell research etc...so those are the things I often find to be an issue when "debating" religion. I can also "attack" other religions but I don't see hindus or muslims in our government manipulating things so it isn't as much of a "bother". I happen to think that in order to fight islamic religous threat we need secular means, other wise it is just a battle of the holy books. I don't want a christian theocracy anymore than an islamic one.


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## HeelSpur (May 7, 2011)

The good christians here wouldn't like that loud BOOM cause they don't get home
til 1 or 2 am, sleep til 9 then get in their sundays best.
Their heads are still spinning and pounding from the good time they had just a few hours earlier.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

tinknal said:


> I think Islam is louder........... *(BOOM)*


Well you're thinking of radical terrorism and I'm talking about religions in general, not terrorists. Loudness of presence also depends on what location in the world you are. Islam is not very loud in any of the Americas because it's a minority religion. Christianity is the majority religion in all of the Americas. It always has been since the Americas became settled by Europeans and probably always will be.

.


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## demeter (Jul 15, 2010)

I (an atheist) don't think I've attacked any religion ever. What purpose would it serve? I don't want to convince anyone to be atheist. It's none of my business.

Demeter


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

thesedays said:


> You met her for what, 5 minutes tops?
> 
> *Nope. More like 8 or so hours spent in her company on the weekenends I spent at the conventions. That would total up to around 32 hours or so(just at the conventions). I also stopped in at the American Atheist headquarters when it was in Austin for a few hours. So, yes, I'd have to say it was a bit more than 5 minutes tops*..:thumb:
> 
> Her son LIVED with her! BTW, he's said on the record that the prayer he had to recite in school was indeed unconstitutional.


Yeah, he lived with her a few decades ago. And, as I mentioned earlier, asking a son who has been disowned by his mother might not get an unbiased description of her. That's why many people who get fired from a job don't use the employers who fired them as references.


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

tinknal said:


> John, the problem with this view is that it seems that you think that "gods" are human creations, which would mean that there are no gods.


No, not exactly. I think the Gods always Were. And I think Some of the Gods chose to Create a People, that is a Folk, in Their Images. And, perhaps Each Folk in turn, contributes to the Nature of Their Gods. Each of these Gods have Names, just as Jehovah/JAWEH has a Name. The Anglo-Saxons have Gods, The Roman People have Gods. The Greeks have Gods.

Like I said, "I am a PolyTheist". It is what makes the most sense to me. The Gods are "Gods" with a capital "G".They Create, They Make things happen, in the Universe, when and if They want to. But, mostly They just leave us to our own devices.
It's my Belief. I have no need to justify it. It doesn't need to make sense to you, just to me. And, that's all pretty simple, to me. Yes, I am a Pagan or more specifically, a Northern Heathen. I pay homage to the Germanic Gods.
I don't usually discuss it with Christians or Atheists because they have different Beliefs that make sense, to them. But their Beliefs don't make so much sense to me.
Have Fun!:thumb:


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

There are no gods.
Evolution.
No god made people in their image.
We evolved.
Just look at the fossils they have found.
We do not look anything like what we evolved from.
If we were made in the image of some god why have our looks changed so much?


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

DQ said:


> I have a new website with a simple purpose of giving a face to atheism to counteract the negative propaganda about us. I need profiles from brave atheists all over the country and I want some homesteaders!........


Do you know about this support network for atheism? Huge list of atheist agnostic skeptic humanist websites - Atheism United 

If not, you might be interested to have your own website listed there now, they are asking people to register their sites there.

.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Once people understand the concept of free will then they are able to accept each other's choices.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

naturelover said:


> Probably because it's the largest and loudest religion in the world.


Um, for what it's worth, not all Quakers are Christians. I am a non-theist Quaker. I have a friend who is a Wiccan and a Quaker. Many Quakers are also heavily invested in Buddhism. Some Quakers are Christians, but there are quite a few who are not.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

shanzone2001 said:


> Once people understand the concept of free will then they are able to accept each other's choices.


I'd say once people understand the concept of freedom, they realize they don't HAVE to accept other people's choices.:clap:


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

shanzone2001 said:


> Once people understand the concept of free will then they are able to accept each other's choices.


I can't speak for other religions but free will is at the very crux of Christianity.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

tinknal said:


> I can't speak for other religions but free will is at the very crux of Christianity.


Umm, that wasn't exactly how it played out historically, though. Catholics and Protestants slaughtered each other for centuries over their differing interpretations of the Bible. Both persecuted Jews and witches. Then there was the forced conversion of the Native people of the New World ...

Free will, not so much ...


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Now y'all are getting into the differences between churches and religion. People killing each other is nothing new and not particular to any religion or lack thereof. The Nazis and Communist have done their fair share as well. People need very little reason to hate their neighbors.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

I doubt that was an important distinction to the people who were affected.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

My point exactly.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

As a nonbeliever, religion is useful to me only to the extent that it makes others less likely to break my leg or pick my pocket.

Or, to put it another way, if your religion doesn't make you less likely to slaughter your neighbor, what earthly use is it? :shrug:


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

pancho said:


> There are no gods.
> Evolution.
> No god made people in their image.
> We evolved.
> ...


How do you know that?
How did something as complicated as the eye come into being purely by accident, which is what evolution teaches? It was all just a series of mistakes, mutations, and therefore you, and all of us, are mistakes.
Ours did.
We did, but marginally.
The fossil record is incomplete and unreliable. They find a small child and say we used to be smaller; they find a large person and say we used to be bigger, then they find a deformed skull and say that we used to look like it.
And we know that we evolved from that how?
Where do we go when we die?


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Dirt nap? :shrug:


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Heritagefarm said:


> How did something as complicated as the eye come into being purely by accident


It didn't, it came from God, accomplished through evolution. God, in his infinite wisdom and genius created a system under which such "miracles" could occur.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

willow_girl said:


> Or, to put it another way, if your religion doesn't make you less likely to slaughter your neighbor, what earthly use is it? :shrug:


Well, there is that whole "salvation" thing. I really would miss you and wish you would come.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

It seems I'll be napping. :hysterical:


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

willow_girl said:


> It seems I'll be napping. :hysterical:


Bad dreams do not make for a pleasant nap.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

tinknal said:


> It didn't, it came from God, accomplished through evolution. God, in his infinite wisdom and genius created a system under which such "miracles" could occur.


That means that God has used death since the very beginning, which contradicts Genesis. If Genesis is false, then how would you feel about the rest of the Bible? Not to mention it would also mean that he was not the God portrayed in the Bible. What is a God who uses death like, instead our plan of Atonement and Salvation?


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Heritagefarm said:


> That means that God has used death since the very beginning, which contradicts Genesis. If Genesis is false, then how would you feel about the rest of the Bible? Not to mention it would also mean that he was not the God portrayed in the Bible. What is a God who uses death like, instead our plan of Atonement and Salvation?


I see this as spiritual death, not mortal death. Before the fall (agriculture) we were innocent beings and our souls were safe. After the fall (the advent of agriculture) our souls were in peril because humans decided that rather than rely on God's providence, he would provide for himself. 

He gave us a bountiful garden (this is the world that hunter/gatherers lived in).

Humans, in our arrogance decided that we could provide better for ourselves rather than relying on God. God was some peeved off.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

So if the discussion is about how did an eyeball come forth from evolution, then where did G-d come forth? 

If the answer is "He/She/It" has always been, then how far of a leap is it to say that an eyeball came from evolution? 

My issue with people throwing out "How did the lungs/brain/etc" come from evolution is that it paints some into a corner in regards to where did G-d come from in the beginning?


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

tinknal said:


> Humans, in our arrogance decided that we could provide better for ourselves rather than relying on God. God was some peeved off.


The issue I have with this, is isn't G-d all-knowing? If so, then wouldn't our 'arrogance' already be known? So why would G-d be peeved? Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results....oh what is the rest of that little saying???????


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

joseph97297 said:


> So if the discussion is about how did an eyeball come forth from evolution, then where did G-d come forth?
> 
> If the answer is "He/She/It" has always been, then how far of a leap is it to say that an eyeball came from evolution?
> 
> My issue with people throwing out "How did the lungs/brain/etc" come from evolution is that it paints some into a corner in regards to where did G-d come from in the beginning?


I have a better question. Where did the absolutely correct prophesies come from?


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

joseph97297 said:


> The issue I have with this, is isn't G-d all-knowing? If so, then wouldn't our 'arrogance' already be known? So why would G-d be peeved? Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results....oh what is the rest of that little saying???????


If you know that your kid is going to go to school, start a fight, and go smoke weed afterward are you going to not be peeved?


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

Which ones?

From which Holy Book? From which era?


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

tinknal said:


> If you know that your kid is going to go to school, start a fight, and go smoke weed afterward are you going to not be peeved?


Well, if I know that, why would I let him go to school and then go smoke weed?

There, issue solved. Parenting, it is great.

ETA: Wait, if I know that, and I let him do it, then yes, I would be peeved, mostly at myself for letting him do that, is that a better answer. So is/was G-d peeved at him/her/itself?


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

joseph97297 said:


> Which ones?
> 
> From which Holy Book? From which era?


Not doing your homework for you. If you were a true seeker I would go to the ends of the earth to help you.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

joseph97297 said:


> Well, if I know that, why would I let him go to school and then go smoke weed?
> 
> There, issue solved. Parenting, it is great.


Because he is 18 and no longer under your control. Get it yet?


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

tinknal said:


> Not doing your homework for you. If you were a true seeker I would go to the ends of the earth to help you.


Oh, nice cop out. You ask a question, I seek clarification, and get the ole brush off. 

Well, surely you aren't referring to Jesus and his failure to fulfill the Messianic prophecies since you mentioned correct, so I was unsure, but guess we will never know.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

tinknal said:


> Because he is 18 and no longer under your control. Get it yet?


Then he is a man now? What school is he attending, college? Then no, I wouldn't be peeved, his life and such.

I would be concerned and worried, but peeved? Not so much. At 18, I was doing worse things, so I wouldn't get mad at him over that.

Got it yet?

Any other 'clarifications' that you need to make to try and make a point.

ETA: And still, at 18, I would call him and try to talk him out of it, but hey, it is what it is. Why get mad over what you can't control.....oh wait.....G-d is all-powerful, right? He "can" control it, so...........


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

I think one reason that people push back at Christians is the constant negativity that is directed our way. We are constantly being told that we are born in sin, are lost and that we need saving. This can be quite irritating and in my experience, that's what I've heard all my life. I can't possibly tell you how many times I've heard Christians say "God/Jesus loves me even though I don't deserve it." It's very sad to constantly watch people put themselves down and be convinced they need to worship some mythical being to have any worth. Of course, they need to create a market to sell a product and if everyone was walking around happy and all confident in themselves there wouldn't be any need for a "God" to come and save them.

I've had so many Christians tell me that they will pray for my soul to be saved when I tell them I don't believe in any God. It's that kind of attitude that can really aggravate a person after a while. I wasn't born in sin, I was just born. I"m doing fine and quite capable of making moral decisions without any help and I don't need saving so quit trying to save me.

I admit to being heavily biased against Christianity. It has torn my family apart and the families of many people I know. I have a sister and some Uncles and Aunts who haven't spoken to us in 30 years because of a religious split. Yes, there is a difference between a church and religion but each religion needs to take responsibility for each church that follows it's teachings, however modified.

I don't want to bash Christianity, I know a lot of very good Christians. My Parent's are Christian and you'd have to travel pretty far to find two finer people. However, when you're constantly being told you're going to H-E-double hockey sticks if you don't believe, it can be a little much after a while.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

tinknal said:


> I see this as spiritual death, not mortal death. Before the fall (agriculture) we were innocent beings and our souls were safe. After the fall (the advent of agriculture) our souls were in peril because humans decided that rather than rely on God's providence, he would provide for himself.
> 
> He gave us a bountiful garden (this is the world that hunter/gatherers lived in).
> 
> Humans, in our arrogance decided that we could provide better for ourselves rather than relying on God. God was some peeved off.


LOL, I see...



joseph97297 said:


> The issue I have with this, is isn't G-d all-knowing? If so, then wouldn't our 'arrogance' already be known? So why would G-d be peeved? Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results....oh what is the rest of that little saying???????


Yes, many Christians believe that God already knew the humanity would Fall. But he had a plan in place, so that when it did, we could still be redeemed.
Why didn't God simply keep sin from coming into the world in the first place? The answer is simply that we needed to choose for ourselves. He did not want robots that walked around and sang at him for no good reason.



joseph97297 said:


> So if the discussion is about how did an eyeball come forth from evolution, then where did G-d come forth?
> 
> If the answer is "He/She/It" has always been, then how far of a leap is it to say that an eyeball came from evolution?
> 
> My issue with people throwing out "How did the lungs/brain/etc" come from evolution is that it paints some into a corner in regards to where did G-d come from in the beginning?


Why is it important to know where God came from? In my opinion, it takes every bit as much faith to believe in evolution and the Mistakes as to believe in one true deity.
But I am not against all of evolution, I'm not going to condemn science just because I sometimes disagree with it. No, mostly what I disagree with is it's constant, flawed attempts to explain where we came from.



joseph97297 said:


> Well, surely you aren't referring to Jesus and his failure to fulfill the Messianic prophecies since you mentioned correct, so I was unsure, but guess we will never know.


Jesus fulfilled the prophesies. What are you referring to?


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

@ truckingguy
Sadly, there are very few "Christians" who follow the very basic teachings of Christ. I understand your sentiments.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Heritagefarm said:


> LOL, I see...


Wow fellow believer LOLs at my beliefs. This is not the way to represent Christianity.
You cannot attract new believers while dismissing current believers


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

Heritagefarm said:


> Jesus fulfilled the prophesies. What are you referring to?


He didn't fulfill them all.

So the ones that weren't fulfilled, that is going to happen at the Second Coming, that the "original" prophecies make no mention of, right? Is that how it gets explained?

I understand the concept of Free Will that G-d gave us, my comment was directed to the person that indicated G-d would be peeved. If G-d knew what would happen, gave us the free will to do so, why then would G-d be peeved?

It isn't important for me to know where G-d came from, but for those who scoff at the idea that an eyeball could come from evolution, how do they explain the presence of G-d?

I'm not bashing, just asking how people can scoff at one 'insane' idea, but then no care to answer their own ideas, which may be interpreted as 'insane' as well.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

@ tink
Christ did a pretty good job of that.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

Heritagefarm said:


> Yes, many Christians believe that God already knew the humanity would Fall. But he had a plan in place, so that when it did, we could still be redeemed.
> Why didn't God simply keep sin from coming into the world in the first place? The answer is simply that we needed to choose for ourselves. He did not want robots that walked around and sang at him for no good reason.


And I always love this. If I know that my daughter may do something that will cause her to die (and in G-d's case, lead to eternal darnation) would I allow her to do it?

Just so I won't have 'robot's" I would allow her to do something that is harmful to herself?

Sorry, as a parent, I am/will do everything in my power, no matter my children's age to help protect them and if need be to help them. 

And more so if I know, as G-d does, what the entire future holds. If I know that my child will get in the car on Monday and have an accident, guess what, I would chain myself to the tire to prevent it, that is what a parent does.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

joseph97297 said:


> I understand the concept of Free Will that G-d gave us, my comment was directed to the person that indicated G-d would be peeved. If G-d knew what would happen, gave us the free will to do so, why then would G-d be peeved?


Yet you ignored my response. A tad uncomfortable are we?


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

joseph97297 said:


> And I always love this. If I know that my daughter may do something that will cause her to die (and in G-d's case, lead to eternal darnation) would I allow her to do it?
> 
> Just so I won't have 'robot's" I would allow her to do something that is harmful to herself?
> 
> ...


Unless your children are prisoners you are a liar.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Heritagefarm said:


> Where do we go when we die?


When you die you don't go anywhere, unless there is some people carrying you. When you die that is the end. Why is that so hard to understand?
Do people really have to believe they will go somewhere else when they die?


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

tinknal said:


> Yet you ignored my response. A tad uncomfortable are we?


Which response? I believe I answered all the response, but correct me if I am wrong.

Pretty please, after all, wouldn't want to make you do my homework.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

vicker said:


> @ tink
> Christ did a pretty good job of that.


He did not come to break the law He came to fulfill it.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

tinknal said:


> Unless your children are prisoners you are a liar.


So, would you not do everything in your power to protect your kids? And I don't understand your comment. 

My children are not my prisoners, they are my responsibility. I will await your clarification, or moving of goal post before answering further.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

tinknal said:


> Yet you ignored my response. A tad uncomfortable are we?


And on a side note, I at least make the effort, and not resort to a cop out of 'do it yourself' since apparently there is no answer coming from your views.......


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

joseph97297 said:


> ETA: And still, at 18, I would call him and try to talk him out of it, but hey, it is what it is. Why get mad over what you can't control.....oh wait.....G-d is all-powerful, right? He "can" control it, so...........


So there is nothing he can do to anger you?


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

tinknal said:


> He did not come to break the law He came to fulfill it.


Well, as he didn't fulfill all the prophecies, guess that pesky "Second Coming" that isn't mentioned, not once comes into play to 'square things up"?


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

As a Christian and a teacher, whenever the discussion of religion comes up in my classroom I make sure all of the kids keep their comments respectful. I wish adults could be the same.

What my students and I do agree on is:
#1 Be respectful of all religions, or on the case here, lack of religion
and #2 Every religion has a set of "rules" to live by and if people followed them (do not kill, do not steal, etc) our world would be a better place.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Shaking the dust from my sandals.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

tinknal said:


> So there is nothing he can do to anger you?


Well, let's see. If I knew exactly what was going to happen, and still allowed it to happen, then no. Nothing he could do.

That's like looking at a tree, knowing it is going to fall, RIGHT ON YOUR CAR, and yet you don't move your car. Who are you going to be mad at in that case? The tree? But you knew, and did nothing....

so no, if I knew what would occur, and I did nothing to stop it, then I wouldn't be mad at him. Mad at myself, yes, him no.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

tinknal said:


> Shaking the dust from my sandals.



Reminds me of the neighbor kids......








I'm gonna take my ball and go home....... 

Have a good Memorial Day.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> #1 Be respectful of all religions


Why?

Actually, this is virtually impossible for a thinking person. No one in their right mind would respect an adult who believed in Santa Claus or the Flying Spaghetti Monster -- nor should they.

What you're _really_ teaching might be more accurately expressed as, "Be a hypocrite and _pretend_ to respect all religions, even if you privately think they're bunkum."

No?

Me, I'm not a big fan of hypocrisy, myself. :shrug:


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Evidently I am very stupid.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

willow_girl said:


> > #1 Be respectful of all religions
> 
> 
> Why?
> ...


Why not be respectful of other people's religions? :shrug:

What's wrong with being polite? So what if somebody doesn't believe in somebody else's beliefs? What makes somebody's beliefs about bunkum an acceptable excuse for being deliberately condescending and rudely superior minded towards other people for what they believe in? 

There is no excuse for disrespect and bad manners for any reason. It is just another type of hypocrisy. 

Not everybody is a "thinking" person or right in the mind (whatever that means to you), that's not a good reason for being disrespectful towards other people or their religions.

.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Using science to argue against religion doesn't work any better than using religion against science. They are two very different things. They can, however, coexist right nicely.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

I guess what I'm saying is that you would have to be a complete bumbling idiot to try and use inductive reasoning to argue matters of faith.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

vicker said:


> Using science to argue against religion doesn't work any better than using religion against science. They are two very different things. *They can, however, coexist right nicely*.


Coexistance seems to present some seriously illogical problems for a lot of people.

.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Yeah, people do tend to get stuck on some things. I would recommend perserverence.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> What's wrong with being polite?


Ahh, but Shan wasn't calling on students to merely be _polite_ -- she insisted upon _respect._

Two different things, IMO. 

I agree that politeness sometimes is advisable -- for instance, in social situations wherein publicly criticizing someone's beliefs would be hurtful.

However, if someone is going to wield their beliefs in a way that infringes upon my freedom, or harms others (think "female genital mutilation"), I'll be darned if I'll stand around whistling "Dixie" and politely "respecting" their beliefs!


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

shanzone2001 said:


> #2 Every religion has a set of "rules" to live by and if people followed them (do not kill, do not steal, etc) our world would be a better place.


So you have not read the bible?

Killing for various reasons is well represented in fact it is encouraged. To the point you can be killed if you don't kill. Here is one.
Deuteronomy 13

Steal and pillage, sure that's ok. 
Nahum 2

A bit of murder and rape. 
Numbers 31:7-18

Raping is a way to marriage. 
Deuteronomy 22:28-29


The fire god Yahweh. Isn't peaceful, kind, or even nice in most interactions with the creatures he created. Mostly he is filled with wrath and anger. It kinda makes me think he is a weak minor god. Not a true god but an evil spirit that took over.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

shanzone2001 said:


> and #2 Every religion has a set of "rules" to live by and if people followed them (do not kill, do not steal, etc) our world would be a better place.


But why exclude the parts from the bible that include rape, pillaging, warmongering, keeping slaves, subservient women, murder, lopping off of body parts, animal sacrifice, genocide, the list never ends.

This type of criminal behavior should shock and appall any moral and ethical person.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I put off responding. I am an atheist. I don't think we need any web pages to negate the propaganda. If someone thinks we are evil or have no morals because we don't believe in God then I don't care to worry about what they think. I would be wasting my time.

To anyone who thinks that religion hold the copyright on morals and right and wrong, I feel very sorry for them. Going to heaven is not going to make anything better for them.

What an how I feel about religion really matters to no one that does. I don't need to change their minds and they don't need to change mine.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

joseph97297 said:


> He didn't fulfill them all.
> 
> So the ones that weren't fulfilled, that is going to happen at the Second Coming, that the "original" prophecies make no mention of, right? Is that how it gets explained?
> 
> ...


Everything is insane, do one degree or another is it not? I think one person is insane, they think me insane, and it goes around in a circle. 
This flipside is, we cannot disprove God exists. And why are you dashing the word God?
Life is a miracle, there simply is no other why to put it. If not a miracle, what is it then? Evolution teaches it is a complete accident, therefore we are all accidents. Do you think you are an accident? I do not believe that.



joseph97297 said:


> And I always love this. If I know that my daughter may do something that will cause her to die (and in G-d's case, lead to eternal darnation) would I allow her to do it?
> 
> Just so I won't have 'robot's" I would allow her to do something that is harmful to herself?
> 
> ...


That is a different scenario, although similar. Before, we had no knowledge of good or evil, we just were. 
I cannot say I like the way things ended up, but I have faith that Gods word is true. In the end, we will know for sure how things were. 
So if God can prevent a trigger from being pulled, and it is pulled, is God responsible because he did not intervene? Does this make God evil? No, because the devil abounds in this world and causes strife and unrest and leads many away from God. 
Some spiritual people do not believe in the Devil, but rather a loosely-identified evilness in the world, rather like the angel-and-devil-on-you-shoulders analogy. Therefore we must battle the evil ourselves? I believe we can, but the Lord can give us strength.



pancho said:


> When you die you don't go anywhere, unless there is some people carrying you. When you die that is the end. Why is that so hard to understand?
> Do people really have to believe they will go somewhere else when they die?


If we do not believe that, life here is for naught. Everything we do is for naught, and will eventually be forgotten, unless you are an Adolf Hitler.
We can have positive influence, for sure, do not get me wrong.



willow_girl said:


> Why?
> 
> Actually, this is virtually impossible for a thinking person. No one in their right mind would respect an adult who believed in Santa Claus or the Flying Spaghetti Monster -- nor should they.
> 
> ...


All righty, I'm going to be extremely disrespectful here and tear up one side and down the other, because otherwise I am a hypocrite to be nice to you. I will relentlessly attack you and hurt your feelings, but I will not be a hypocrite.
Actually I won't, because I feel everyone has a say, and I believe in freedom of religion, or lack of. If, and when, we run around and force people into Christianity, they are resentfull and unwilling. I cannot imagine that God wants that. He wants people to come to Him willingly.



stanb999 said:


> So you have not read the bible?
> 
> Killing for various reasons is well represented in fact it is encouraged. To the point you can be killed if you don't kill. Here is one.
> Deuteronomy 13
> ...


You have thrown everything out of context.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

Heritagefarm said:


> Everything is insane, do one degree or another is it not? I think one person is insane, they think me insane, and it goes around in a circle.
> This flipside is, we cannot disprove God exists. And why are you dashing the word God?
> Life is a miracle, there simply is no other why to put it. If not a miracle, what is it then? Evolution teaches it is a complete accident, therefore we are all accidents. Do you think you are an accident? I do not believe that.
> 
> ...


I agree, labelling someone or their beliefs is wrong, that is what I was trying to get across.

But to your point, you are correct, you cannot disprove G-d exist, but can you prove it? 

As to the point of knowing good/evil. Sure, Adam and Eve did not 'know' the difference, but surely G-d did/does. So back to my analogy, if I 'KNOW" that something bad is about to happen and I don't do everything in my power to stop it, what does that say to me as a person, as a parent?

It is a correct comparison. If I see that my daughter is about to knock a jar or book off the shelf and hit her head, do I let it happen? Would you? Why not? I can't fathom that any parent would knowingly let their child get hurt or do something to essentially ruin the rest of their life (in G-d's situation, their eternal life).

So, if you, as an individual had prior knowledge of someone's imminent murder, and you did nothing, what would that mean? 

And as for an accident, who knows. Perhaps G-d came around by an accident? After all, we can't prove how he/she/it was created/imagined/evolved.....


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

joseph97297 said:


> I agree, labelling someone or their beliefs is wrong, that is what I was trying to get across.
> 
> But to your point, you are correct, you cannot disprove G-d exist, but can you prove it?
> 
> ...


Well... We have free will. That much is certain. Yes, I would do anything within my power to prevent something from happening to a loved one. But some will not. God can intervene, but oftentimes it would require divine intervention. 
God has expressed his sympathy to our plight. After all, he offered his only son for our salvation. He works, and thinks, on a massively different level than us. If he kept everyone safe, would we learn? Yet we do not need wars. At the same time, we have free will, is it not us who start the wars in the first place? Contrast it with what most Christians think, which is that He can influence our decisions. Back to free choice, we can ignore our conscience and do whatever we want. Sometimes we will have immediate repercussions, other times, it will take a lifetime for the punishments.
This world is not perfect. In fact, it is highly flawed in nearly every way, except under laboratory conditions, where near perfection of matter can be reached. Near perfection of a person is impossible here, however.
Your analogy is correct, and is food for thought, yes?
Here is a good article:
Why does God let bad things happen in the world? - explore faith


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> All righty, I'm going to be extremely disrespectful here and tear up one side and down the other, because otherwise I am a hypocrite to be nice to you. I will relentlessly attack you and hurt your feelings, but I will not be a hypocrite.


If I express a belief that is irrational or otherwise in error, you'd be doing me a favor to point out my mistake.



> Actually I won't, because I feel everyone has a say, and I believe in freedom of religion, or lack of.


Oh, I believe in _freedom_ of religion -- I'll defend to the death your right to worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster, even if I think you're a fool for doing so.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

"This flipside is, we cannot disprove God exists."

I always find it funny when people make that "argument", because in more than 40 years of hearing it I have NEVER found anybody who actually believes it is a logical argument. If it was, the fact that we also cannot disprove Harry Potter, Gandalf, Cthulhu, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and every other thing imaginable could also be defended with the same "argument". 
Since I've never met anybody who actually believes in everything, even the people who make that argument realize how it fails. 
The fact that we cannot disprove something is meaningless to most people, including the people who keep bringing it up.
It's pretty bad when people use arguments even THEY don't agree with.ound:


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I don't have anything against religion except for the habit different religions have of killing people who do not believe.

I was raised in a baptist home. We went to church at every opportunity and sat on the front row. Went to bible school every summer, bible camp, had the preacher over and took care of the missionaries.

As I got older I just couldn't understand how a person could believe in what the bible said. Everyone I knew then and have met since then pick out the parts they like and forget the parts they do not like. It just seemed to me if you were going to believe part of it you should go ahead and believe it all, not just the sections you chose.

The first time I heard a person say something about the earth being only 10,000 years old I thought it was a joke. It is very hard for me to believe there are people who actually believe that.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

From the link above:

"I have grown certain that God actually mourns these horrible events with us, that God is as sad, even more so, about what is happening to me as I am."

I'm sorry, how can one accept this kind of thinking and still feel that the G-d they believe in is a caring and compassionate one?

If G-d is even more sad than the person being hurt, then I still do not understand why G-d doesn't step in.

Back to my kids. If I see my kid playing with a chainsaw, knowing that they will cut their leg off, would I allow that to occur? If I did allow it to occur, then yes, I would be sad, even more so, than my child..... since I stood idly by, with full knowledge of what was about to occur and did nothing to stop it.

I want my kids to grow up and be upstanding and righteous individuals, to know the difference between right and wrong, but I don't cast them to the wolves just on a whim. I don't keep loaded firearms within little one's reach, even though I would be more sad than them if something happened. I don't let them run with knives, as I know what could happen. See, even knowing what 'could" happen, not what will happen still influences me as a parent.

Boy, if I had the knowledge of what would and is going to happen, I would still do everything I could to protect my kids, and probably be more successful at it....but then again, perhaps I am just keeping them prisoners, you know protecting them from harm and stuff.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

willow_girl said:


> Why?
> 
> Actually, this is virtually impossible for a thinking person. No one in their right mind would respect an adult who believed in Santa Claus or the Flying Spaghetti Monster -- nor should they:


Neither of those beliefs came up in our discussion and I doubt they ever will. What did come up was the children were Christian/Catholic, Buddhist, Jewish or no religion at all. We discussed the similarities and differences. It isn't my place to pass judgement or try to change their way of thinking.
The point I try to make to them is that you don't have to agree with someone, just keep your negative comments to yourself!


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

Most of this thread, as all threads that pit theists against non-theists has the same issue.

theists are arguing from a position of faith and non-theists are arguing from a position of knowledge. Not the kind of "Know in my heart knowledge", but the I have evidence (or no evidence) knowledge. whether people admit or not there aren't any logical arguments for the side of believing things on faith. that is why we say "faith" and not "knowledge". Knowledge is obtained through empirical evidence. Faiths and religion are based on hearsay and claims that cannot be substantiated. As far as christianity goes, we cannot even establish that jesus was ever a living person. their is no corroborating evidence from other writings of the time. which seems strange since he should have made a pretty big impact if the biblical accounts are true. The biblical stories are no more corroborated than the stories of the koran or joseph smith's claims. 

We cannot prove or disprove the existence of god. Of course, we cannot prove or disprove the existence of the spirit of a pink elephant that lives in my living room or that we are not all under the mind control of an alien race. turns out, that not being able to disprove something isn't really a good reason to think it is true for many people. For some people, it doesn't matter. No one will ever convince someone through reason when that someone is accustomed to relying on faith.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

willow_girl said:


> Oh, I believe in _freedom_ of religion -- I'll defend to the death your right to worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster, even if I think you're a fool for doing so.


Why thank you kindly. Now I'm off to Google WTH the Spaghetti Monster is, and if it's edible.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

shanzone2001 said:


> Neither of those beliefs came up in our discussion and I doubt they ever will. What did come up was the children were Christian/Catholic, Buddhist, Jewish or no religion at all. We discussed the similarities and differences. It isn't my place to pass judgement or try to change their way of thinking.
> The point I try to make to them is that you don't have to agree with someone, just keep your negative comments to yourself!


The problem with that idea is that some people consider ANY disagreement with their ideas "negative". Since negative is often in the eye of the beholder, that covers a big range. As religious people like to keep reminding everybody(else), the Constitution does not guarantee you the right to not be offended by what other people say. Anybody only wanting to hear "positive" comments is very likely to be disappointed by other people.:Bawling:


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

I hear a lot of "not my place to change their way of thinking"

would it be our place to change the way people thought about burning witches a few hundred years ago? would it be our place to change the way of thinking of the jonestown followers? 900 men women and children dead? would it be our place to change the thinking of people who would oppress homosexuals, limit research that could relieve the suffering of so many people or make unwanted pregnancies result in unwanted children because of a mythical unprovable "soul" they had while residing in a petri dish or when they were no more than a few hundred cells replicating in a womans uterus? would it be our place to counter the futile and wasteful abstinence programs and anti birth control propaganda in africa? areas where women don't even get a choice about sex or having babies and there isn't even enough resources for the people as it is? should we try to change the minds of religious people, when their beliefs and subsequent influence causes unnecessary suffering for others? YES! YES! YES! 

when people hurt other people because of their "faith" it is time to change their mind. If they stayed out of politics, out of human rights, out of cultures they know nothing about and issues they have no intention of exploring fully, then we can stay out of their beliefs. but.......they won't.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

Heritagefarm said:


> Why thank you kindly. Now I'm off to Google WTH the Spaghetti Monster is, and if it's edible.













And they even have a theory on Global Warming:










That is chuckle worthy.....


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Heritagefarm said:


> You have thrown everything out of context.


What context? The bible is clear in these things. Killing, taking plunder, as well as keeping the young girls for yourself is all good. It is mentioned many times.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

My primary problem with Christianity and bible based religions is that the God depicted therein is a stereotypical abusive male. Go to any list of descriptors or warning signs of an abusive man and compare it to the bible; God matches up on every point, except perhaps for the part about threatening to commit suicide if you leave. Jesus commits suicide in order to guilt trip us into converting, so that's slightly different. 

And then, this is the God that our husbands are supposed to model themselves after, the "loving father" they are supposed to emulate, and we act dismayed when our Christian men are abusive? It isn't much of a surprise to me. :-/


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

FourDeuce said:


> The problem with the negative stereotypes is that many of them are not arrived at logically, so you won't be able to combat them using logic. For example, I often hear people talking about how bad Madalyn Murray O'Hair was, and almost every time I ask the person saying it when they met her. The vast majority of them NEVER met her, but their minister told them how evil she was. No amount of logic will fight that kind of thinking.:viking:


Sorry, there is no logic in that. Can I not have an opinion about Geo Washington, Hitler, Jesus, or that annoying kid down the street that allows his dog to poop in my yard? I've never met any of them.


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## chickenslayer (Apr 20, 2010)

FourDeuce said:


> "This flipside is, we cannot disprove God exists."
> 
> I always find it funny when people make that "argument", because in more than 40 years of hearing it I have NEVER found anybody who actually believes it is a logical argument. If it was, the fact that we also cannot disprove Harry Potter, Gandalf, Cthulhu, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and every other thing imaginable could also be defended with the same "argument".
> Since I've never met anybody who actually believes in everything, even the people who make that argument realize how it fails.
> ...



The Easter bunny is real, I saw him myself when I was 3


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Santy is a close personal friend of mine.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

DQ said:


> Most of this thread, as all threads that pit theists against non-theists has the same issue.
> 
> theists are arguing from a position of faith and non-theists are arguing from a position of knowledge. Not the kind of "Know in my heart knowledge", but the I have evidence (or no evidence) knowledge. whether people admit or not there aren't any logical arguments for the side of believing things on faith. that is why we say "faith" and not "knowledge". Knowledge is obtained through empirical evidence. Faiths and religion are based on hearsay and claims that cannot be substantiated. As far as christianity goes, we cannot even establish that jesus was ever a living person. their is no corroborating evidence from other writings of the time. which seems strange since he should have made a pretty big impact if the biblical accounts are true. The biblical stories are no more corroborated than the stories of the koran or joseph smith's claims.
> 
> We cannot prove or disprove the existence of god. Of course, we cannot prove or disprove the existence of the spirit of a pink elephant that lives in my living room or that we are not all under the mind control of an alien race. turns out, that not being able to disprove something isn't really a good reason to think it is true for many people. For some people, it doesn't matter. No one will ever convince someone through reason when that someone is accustomed to relying on faith.


I consider myself to be analytical and scientific person; therefore I am logical and live with my faith just fine. Are you saying that people who cannot use logic, i.e. are stupid, are going to follow God? And all the smart people shouldn't? I was reading college level biology books at the age of 12 and understood them as well, yet I believe in God. Is that so hard to believe?



joseph97297 said:


> And they even have a theory on Global Warming:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh I see, we shouldn't believe in God because it requires a leap of faith but we are going to ignore a massive body of evidence, *which I might point out is testable and provable*, that shows GW, most likely AGW, is happening? Pick and choose, pick and choose...



stanb999 said:


> What context? The bible is clear in these things. Killing, taking plunder, as well as keeping the young girls for yourself is all good. It is mentioned many times.


You are so blatantly wrong, you have obviously never actually read the Bible, or if you did it was with a prejudice against it so strong you tainted everything you read. 
1. Killing is prohibited by the Commandments.
2. Stealing, i.e., plunder, is also prohibited by the Commandments.
3. Sexual immorality is prohibited, and punished. The verse you brought forth was actually protection, in a way, it ensured a man would not do that without sever penalties. On the other hand, he should of course be put to death.
What Does the Bible Say About Chastity?
Immorality is prohibited, and punished. Y



chamoisee said:


> My primary problem with Christianity and bible based religions is that the God depicted therein is a stereotypical abusive male. Go to any list of descriptors or warning signs of an abusive man and compare it to the bible; God matches up on every point, except perhaps for the part about threatening to commit suicide if you leave. Jesus commits suicide in order to guilt trip us into converting, so that's slightly different.
> 
> And then, this is the God that our husbands are supposed to model themselves after, the "loving father" they are supposed to emulate, and we act dismayed when our Christian men are abusive? It isn't much of a surprise to me. :-/


I myself sometimes have a problem with that. However, if I Christian man is abusing his wife, his is at fault with God and will answer to Him eventually, for we should not abuse anyone. 
I am a feminist, and believe in equal rights for women. Call me a conundrum if you will.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

I believe that much of the Old Testament is a commentary on what life was like at the time. Check out Ezekiel 23:20 and be prepared to :shocked: . I couldn't believe THAT was in the Bible!


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Heritagefarm said:


> You are so blatantly wrong, you have obviously never actually read the Bible, or if you did it was with a prejudice against it so strong you tainted everything you read.
> 1. Killing is prohibited by the Commandments.
> 2. Stealing, i.e., plunder, is also prohibited by the Commandments.
> 3. Sexual immorality is prohibited, and punished. The verse you brought forth was actually protection, in a way, it ensured a man would not do that without sever penalties. On the other hand, he should of course be put to death.
> ...




1. :hysterical: It is obvious the OT was written by a warrior people. Maybe that is why their neighbors still hate them? 

2. So I guess to you plunder isn't stealing... They are dead after all. Here is more..
http://bible.cc/genesis/34-29.htm
http://bible.cc/numbers/31-9.htm

3. :hysterical: that is a funny way of protecting women. Hear is another way to deal with women. Equally as peaceful.
http://bible.cc/leviticus/21-9.htm

On chastity.. It also says men that "know" a women can't ever be in the army of god at Armageddon. It says you as a women can't ever be in the army of god at Armageddon. It says to be "saved" you must be in the army of god at Armageddon. So why do you waste your time?

The OT is a collection of laws and stories about the Jews... Their conquests and failures. They believed god intervened directly in their affairs. A battle was lost or won on the merits of the mens connection with god. The God of the old testament was vengeful, mean, and petty. This is very different from the modern Hebrew/Christian view. God changed. So when you say the bibles says "XXXX". It also says mean unspeakable things as well. So it depends.

The NT is a mix of superstition from the 200 BCE - 100 CE period with a heaping scoops of things added later for good measure. Virgin births, defeating death, raising the dead, healing the sick, etc. All was added much later. Some even think the original stories are so little represented it is difficult to determine what is "fake" and what is not. By "fake" I mean added to early stories.



Just because I don't believe in the man in the sky doesn't mean I haven't read the bible.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

thesedays said:


> I believe that much of the Old Testament is a commentary on what life was like at the time. Check out Ezekiel 23:20 and be prepared to :shocked: . I couldn't believe THAT was in the Bible!


Stop it. Reading the bible isn't for everyone. It causes you to question the nonsense. Could there have been a reason the church kept it away from the masses for more than a thousand years?


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

thesedays said:


> I believe that much of the Old Testament is a commentary on what life was like at the time. Check out Ezekiel 23:20 and be prepared to :shocked: . I couldn't believe THAT was in the Bible!


Some women are Proverbs 31 women. I'm more of an Ezekiel 23:30 gal, myself. ound:


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Watch it Willow, you're showing your beauty again


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

CesumPec said:


> Sorry, there is no logic in that. Can I not have an opinion about Geo Washington, Hitler, Jesus, or that annoying kid down the street that allows his dog to poop in my yard? I've never met any of them.


Sure, I don't begrudge anybody the right to have an opinion. I just don't consider ANY opinion on something worth listening to. I consider an INFORMED opinion worth listening to. An uninformed opinion(also known as a guess) is no better than any other person's guess. I understand that many people consider THEIR uninformed opinions worth more than other people's uninformed opinions, but that doesn't mean other people feel the same way.:nono:
It would be like somebody telling me how great last year's football season was and then coming out with some statistics to prove their claim like RBIs, ERAs, HRs, etc. :smack


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

Heritagefarm said:


> Oh I see, we shouldn't believe in God because it requires a leap of faith but we are going to ignore a massive body of evidence, *which I might point out is testable and provable*, that shows GW, most likely AGW, is happening? Pick and choose, pick and choose...


I was chuckling at the idea that correlates the number of Pirates with GW. I wasn't knocking anything, just thought that was cute.

For what it is worth, I believe in the Climate Change and GW issues, and feel that we need to study and formulate a plan, so not sure where you thought I was picking and choosing, I was, as stated, chuckling at their idea to correlate the number of pirates with GW....nothing more.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

Sorry to contribute to the thread drift, but I can't let this discussion of faith go by when the religion of AGW is mentioned. AGW is testable only on the margins, but hasn't been proven, and one can believe in it only as an act of faith. The climate is simply too vast, with too many variables, and subject to too many natural fluctuations to prove AGW at this time. Since atmospheric carbon levels have fluctuated over time and not in a highly correlated manner in relation to temps, it is difficult to not be at least skeptical that one century of oil burners has changed the atmosphere. It takes faith to believe that the gov't financed research isn't creating a pro-AGW bias. How much of the ag research in the last century that was gov't financed is now being shown to be bad for farming, downright wrong, or toxic to the environment? It takes faith that the testing, even if not biased, is valid. It takes faith that the many meteorologists and climatologists that dispute AGW are wrong. It takes a bit of faith to think that GW is a net negative when science tells us the world has been warmer in the past during times when man and beast thrived. It takes faith that the reporting on GW is accurate, and if you watch ABC, MSNBC, FOX, or BBC, or read any major newspaper and you don't think reporting is biased, you're absolutely fooling yourself.

If you are a climatologist or meteorologist and in the process of researching this issue, maybe it takes less faith, you might have an educated guess one way or another, but AGW hasn't been proved. So who among us is a climatologist engaged in the study of GW?


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Well it also takes a certain level of faith to believe that the earth is round and orbits the sun. I mean, I've never seen that with my own eyes. But, I do tend to believe what I'm told on certain things.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

vicker said:


> Well it also takes a certain level of faith to believe that the earth is round and orbits the sun. I mean, I've never seen that with my own eyes. But, I do tend to believe what I'm told on certain things.


well there isn't any debate in the scientific community that the earth is round and I've seen photos of a round earth. But perhaps those photos were doctored evidence just like the lunar landings.  

And yes, we all tend to believe certain things we are told. I don't suppose we could function in society otherwise. We probably take an awful lot of info in on faith alone. I just wanted to point out that AGW is by far not settled science.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

vicker said:


> Well it also takes a certain level of faith to believe that the earth is round and orbits the sun. I mean, I've never seen that with my own eyes. But, I do tend to believe what I'm told on certain things.


You can do it too. Yes the world is round. 


[YOUTUBE]gfgOYsWnisk[/YOUTUBE]


P.S. It didn't look like they ran into the firmment. Yahway spent a whole creation day on it... Hmmm.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

A man`s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.

Albert Einstein


I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.

Thomas Jefferson

Daily Atheist Quote - View All Quotes


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Back when Madalyn Murray O'Hair was alive, she had an answering machine set up at American Atheist headquarters with a Dial-An-Atheist message on it.:rock:


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

What I find particularly amusing is that somehow the OP's Atheistic thread has turned into a Christian belief thread...only on HT.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

joseph97297 said:


> I was chuckling at the idea that correlates the number of Pirates with GW. I wasn't knocking anything, just thought that was cute.
> 
> For what it is worth, I believe in the Climate Change and GW issues, and feel that we need to study and formulate a plan, so not sure where you thought I was picking and choosing, I was, as stated, chuckling at their idea to correlate the number of pirates with GW....nothing more.


My most sincere apologies, I took your message the wrong way.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I've stopped mentioning my non-belief in my personal life. People seem to always want to preach to me when they find out I am not a believer. When they go on and on about praying and the bible and this and that and I finially have enough and tell them as nice as I can that I am not interested, that I don't belive that stuff they always seem to take it the wrong way, say i'm going to hell, etc, etc. Hey, it's ok if you want to believe in your god and all that, I really don't care, but PLEASE oh PLEASE don't constantly talk about it and don't get pushy when someone says they don't want to hear it.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

I've sort of gone the opposite direction with people who insist on preaching to me. When they tell me I'm going to Hell I usually tell them I hope so. If the story is true and Heaven and Hell do exist, I'd prefer Hell, but I also enjoy the shocked look some of them get when I tell them that too.ound:
Many people seem to expect that nobody would choose Hell.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

stanb999 said:


> You can do it too. Yes the world is round.
> 
> 
> [YOUTUBE]gfgOYsWnisk[/YOUTUBE]
> ...


That's a great video  Of course I know you know I know the world is round, but so much of what we "know" we really know only in faith. the more I know the more amazed I always am. We, life, the universe are MIRACLES! I love learning new ways to be amazed. And, the more I know, the more I am taught how very little I know. I am humbled. I know that every thing we see and value is temporary and of little value when compared to the one real thing, which is our relationship with god, how ever we choose to view God. Those are my beliefs, and did not come to me easily. I would never push them on another. It is silly to argue those things. I can't say many things for sure, but I can say this; if there is a God, he hates those people yelling at others that they are going to hell just as much as you and I do. All this talk of, "why doesn't he stop it" is ridiculous. If he did that he wouldn't be a just god, he would only be a strong tyrant. I'm sorry if anyone is offended by the masculine nomenclature. Our language is lacking, and I don't feel compelled to compensate for it.


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