# Shellfish & fish stock



## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

USDA Canning Guide 5 has instructions for canning fin fish, crab, clams and oysters; but nothing for shrimp or lobster. I'm assuming you can do lobster the same as crab; but what about shrimp? And does this work for flash-frozen crustaceans instead of live? I'm talking processed live/fresh and immediately on the boat, thawed on ice at home and immediately prepared & canned. I'm 3+ hours from a store and a day from the nearest ocean, so most of my shellfish is fresh-frozen.

Also, there's instructions for canning meat and poultry stock/broth; but no instructions for fish stock. I make my own fish/seafood stock by boiling down bones/heads/shells and then clarifying but don't know how long to process the broths in the pressure canner. It stands to reason that since fish processes longer than meat, fish stock should process longer than meat stock, but does anyone have an actual time? Should I just follow the vegetable stock times (which is longer than meat)?


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

OK, found more info on CanningUSA about fish stock. Apparently, since this is clarified stock (with absolutely no solids!) you can it just like any other meat broth, but can increase the time 10 minutes if you're paranoid. 

Any dish that replaces (flesh) meat with seafood should be processed 10 minutes longer as a general rule (per "New Putting Food By").

Still hunting down shrimp canning instructions, but apparently frozen seafood is ok to use for canning as long as it was fresh and handled properly.


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

Finally found shrimp canning info from the Oregon Extension. (this would probably work for crayfish/crawdads as well)

No even vaguely "official" lobster canning recommendations, but unofficial sources all seem to be treating it like crab... which makes sense to me. If anyone has any better sources and info, let me know. (really surprised that Maine Extension didn't have anything!!)


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

Sounds like you answered all your own questions, lol, but thanks for posting it for the rest of us. I've never even thought about it here in land-locked Oklahoma, but it's good to know. I used to live on seafood when I lived in California and have dreams of someday living somewhere in the Pacific Northwest or Alaska. Let us know how it goes if/when you try it!


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

LOL - it always works that way. I can look for hours and find diddly, but the minute I post a question on a forum the search engines spit out useful information  Story of my life.

Still wondering if anyone as canned shrimp or lobster here though. Maybe give me some pointers to help maintain good texture, etc.


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

That usually happens to me too, and I pride myself on being an excellent researcher, but when I finally give up and ask for help either I find it right away or someone else posts and says "well duh, it's right here"...usually right under my nose, lol.

I'll be watching with interest too. I can't imagine how you could process shrimp for the length of time required and have them not come out like rubber or possibly even just mush. I love scallops, and although I hate calamari, I figure the same thing would apply to both of them. That's why I said I hope you let us know how it goes. Good luck!


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## Lucy (May 15, 2006)

I I had I known you wanted to know about shrimp, I could have provided you with that part. This is the same publication we provide. It is a Pacific Northwest Publication.

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/pnw/pnw194.pdf 

This is what I have on lobster. 

Can I can Lobster?
Unfortunately, lobster is not one of the foods for which home canning in mason jars is recommended. The recommended home preservation method for lobster is freezing. 


We have searched the U.S. and Canada, talking to a broad range of food authorities. There is no record of any university or food processing authority development of a method and/or time for safe processing of lobster in mason jars, at this time..

WHY DON'T YOU RECOMMEND CANNING LOBSTER?
First, lobster is a very delicate meat of relatively high fat content. But, more importantly, it is also a low acid food that requires processing (heating filled jars) in a pressure canner. Unlike boiling water canners, pressure canners heat food at elevated temperatures &#8211; 240Â°F (116Â°C) - to destroy spores of clostridium botulinum. When not inactivated, these spores can grow and lead to a deadly form of food poisoning called botulism. The heat and time required to destroy the spores and safely heat process lobster in a pressure canner would undoubtedly turn the lobster meat to mush making it most unappetizing.

Now, we are aware that some people in coastal areas "put up" lobster in jars utilizing a variety of handed-down methods, most of which appear to involve a boiling water canner. Moreover, our research has led us to believe that most of the processing times being used in this &#8220;handed-down method&#8221; are woefully inadequate. Quite frankly, these people are playing a very dangerous game of chance with their family's health. Unlike many microorganisms, spores of clostridium botulinum can lurk undetected in inadequately or poorly preserved foods. These spores are not detectable to the eye, touch or nose. In fact, they are very difficult to detect in a sophisticated lab.


We realize this is not the answer you wanted, but we trust that it will convince you to freeze lobster in the future. BERNARDINÂ® does have tested recipes for preserving salmon, clams, crab meat, oyster, tuna and fish in mason jars in the 3rd edition of the BERNARDINÂ® Guide to Home Preserving.


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## PixieLou (May 1, 2010)

Lucy said:


> WHY DON'T YOU RECOMMEND CANNING LOBSTER?
> First, lobster is a very delicate meat of relatively high fat content.


This is total crock. Lobster is one of the least fatty seafoods available.


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

Lucy said:


> I I had I known you wanted to know about shrimp, I could have provided you with that part. This is the same publication we provide. It is a Pacific Northwest Publication.
> 
> http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/pnw/pnw194.pdf


Thanks, that's the link I found and posted above from Oregon Extension. So it's confirmed  



> The heat and time required to destroy the spores and safely heat process lobster in a pressure canner would undoubtedly turn the lobster meat to mush making it most unappetizing.


Yet we are given instructions to PC crab, an equally delicate meat, which is nearly identical in preparation and consistency. We are also given countless instructions to can foods that leave the texture or flavor less than appetizing (IMO), but that doesn't negate that it can be canned safely given that method. The two issues are orthogonal. Methinks I smell a rationalization.


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## Ali_R (Jul 18, 2011)

According to Putting Food By in Google Books (searched canning clear broth) It says 20 min for hot pack shrimp stock in 1/2 pint jars. No reference for pint. I couldn't find it in my hard copy. Now that I read it online I need to go find that hardcopy again. 

I have been canning crab and I am not satisfied w/ the aftertaste. I can taste too much of the lemon from the acid brine you put it in. I read, after the fact, to not soak in brine so long. 

I have another fresh crab... gonna make a crab bisque tonight using my canned stock & canned crab.

Ali

ETA: The texture of the crab is fine, it is just the flavor. I have never, ever been satisfied with the flavor of any frozen crab though. Dungeness crab here. (Probably why I don't like king crab, it is very, very difficult to get fresh and I don't care what they say, flash freezing does to change the flavor.)


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

I've "flash" soaked my king and not had problems with the acid aftertaste. The texture canned or frozen are both good. Neither tastes the same as fresh, but certainly not as bad as the tinned crab in stores (blech). Although I have noticed, with king especially, that the longer it's remained frozen the more bland the flavor. 

We're lucky here because we can get king that has been frozen for only 1 or 2 days, so the flavor impact isn't as great. I don't think I have a pot big enough to boil more than one live king anyway -- those suckers can be huge 

Sounds like PFB treats clear seafood stocks like any other clear broth, good to know.


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

Welcome to the boards Ali! I think those of us used to fresh seafood will never be nearly as happy with canned or frozen, lol, but it's better than nothing! 

I have Putting Food By, but didn't even think to look in there. I should point out that the canning experts say that most of the recipes in there are no longer considered safe. That doesn't mean I don't use a lot of recipes they don't approve of, lol, but everyone has to judge the risk and make their own decision. But at least I've done my duty by pointing it out, lol.


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

Callie - that's so true  I'd much prefer fresh for the majority of my food, but when it's a matter of having none or wasting surplus... well then, preserved in some way is definitely the best option even if taste/texture/nutritional content isn't fresh-perfect.


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## Ali_R (Jul 18, 2011)

Plickety, thank you for the idea of "flash brine" for the crab. I never thought of that. I will try that the next batch when my wild-man dad gets back and starts crabbing again.  He comes and gets my kids so he can limit more crab... in the kayak!!! sigh! He loves to share. Plus we go wading in the Puget Sound for them, too. We get about 3:1 red rock to dungeness that way.

I would like to get some crab put up that tastes good to me. Good enough for gifts.

Callie, no, I did not realize PFB canning recipes were not considered safe. That is worrisome. The only recipe I used was the stock one :-/ 

Thank you for the welcome. After a year of putting food in the freezer and having meat sit in the freezer for a year I am giving up on freezing and canning instead! Really the impetus was I got to go back home this summer and watched as my family stocked up on sockeye for me. I know what to do with sockeye! I really, really like to can my smoked reds.

This site seems right up my alley


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

I didn't mean to scare you, but they try to be careful on public boards like this one to let everyone know what is "officially" approved and what is not. Many people (including me) still use lots of recipes for canning that aren't officially considered safe, and there was a huge discussion on this board just not too long ago about it. 

Plickety Cat and some others made a lot of good points, I thought, about the powers that be who decide this stuff can't possibly test every single recipe and a lot of times can't even explain why they've decided a recipe isn't safe any more. 

Here's a link to the website that all the professionals recommend: http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/

They say that basically only the things on that site and in the very newest Ball canning book are safe, everything else is questionable. Most people feel it's up to interpretation and experience. There are a lot of differing opinions, you just have to read the evidence and make up your own mind. 

Around here, canning beats freezing hands down because we have horrible thunderstorms and tornados in spring and summer and ice storms with multi-week power outages every winter. Plus, things keep fresher tasting longer canned than they do frozen. Hope you enjoy the site!


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

Given the extreme variability of foodstuffs and recipes out there, no authority could ever possibly test everything with any high level of confidence. It would be much more logical to test and provide a few simple foods and recipes to offer for beginners, and provide their data and safety targets to the rest of us so we can determine how to make our own recipes safe(r) -- tell us what we need to do, not how we need to do it.

How much simpler would their job be if they just had to test and maintain a list of time ranges that certain foods reached certain temperature in certain size containers using certain canners; or average pH ranges for different foods and acid solutions; or the water activity for different foods and effects of brine/sugaring solutions. 

With that kind of information, the target ranges, and a few formulas, most home-canning recipe safety would end up being a matter of A + B + C = D. Ok, not exactly that simple, but they could make a few web tools to do the hard calculations for folks who simply plug in their information -- like the AWC does for building loads and construction safety, etc. A whole lot can be extrapolated mathematically given the right data.

But anyway, I think that using the PFB seafood clear broth recipe would be considered safe since it jives with all the other clear broths in USDA/Ball. A cloudy or thick stock with bits and chunks in it might justify a different treatment, but we're basically talking yummy-flavored water with clear broths 

Ali - sockeye reds smoke up great don't they? Yum! Salted (gravlax) and pickled salmon are also delicious, and work well for coho and chum that aren't quite oily enough to smoke as well as kings and sockeyes. Here are a few recipes to try http://lostartskitchen.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/preserving-salmon-three-ways/

I also found that adding more salt to my crab flash brine helped with the funky acid aftertaste... just make sure your solution is still acidic (litmus paper is a canning essential IMO). I've also found that the flavor of frozen crab and shrimp is vastly better if you pack the container and then pour in the brine you steamed them in (or a fresh batch of brine at least as salty as the sea). You can always rinse the salt out in a colander after defrosting, but you can't put the flavor back in once it's gone


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## Ali_R (Jul 18, 2011)

Oh my!!! You should have seen the scene you caused here! I read that and jumped up and opened a jar of crab. That is a FUNNY sight because my foot is broken. Thump... thump... thump!

The crab is MUCH better rinsed! I am sitting here eating it! WOW! Can't wait to tell my dad to RINSE it! 

Sigh! It is the simplest things that stymie me!

Thank you!
Ali R
(an Alaskan stuck in Seattle for Medical)


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

We all have our :doh: moments LOL! Glad you got a useful tip, and hope your gimpy foot mends quickly so you can come on home!


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