# Other LGD Forums



## R&R Farm (Jun 12, 2008)

Are there any good forums or discussion sites on LGD's? I am trying to learn all I can and enjoy reading others' experiences. TIA......Mike


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/PyrTalk/

I haven't been on there in quite a while due to time constraints, but it used to have a pretty good group of experienced LGD owners on there.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

Let me preface my answer by saying how much I enjoy this forum here. Not only the guard animals section either. We have everything from newbies and rank amateurs to old hands and everyone in between here. Granted sometimes tempers flare a bit but we all seem to be able to get along with a fair amount of grace and tolerance and our fluffed feathers settle fairly quickly. There is a respect here that is lacking on so many other LGD forums.

I'm not even going to list them by name, because frankly, over all, I have been disappointed in them. But yes there are a few on Yahoo groups and one privately run sheep forum has an LGD section that I got booted off from, merely for sticking up for a newcomer who was totally trashed, kicked, slandered and disgraced (he moved over here and has been treated wonderfully!). They are narrowminded, slanted, and post with pack mentality....I won't mention the names. 

There are two main LGD forums on Yahoo that are dominated by a few know-it-alls who talked down to me like I was some idiot (I have 35 some years of cattle ranching experience and lifelong dog breeder). Come to find out the one moderator is a show goat farmer and was mentioned in one of the two LGD books out there and it's completely gone to his head. 

Another LGD group moderator prides themselves on 'collecting' LGD breeds, and has a goal of owning every one in the world, something that struck me as odd if not downright questionable. The more I heard them talk the more I realized they were downright clueless...didn't even know about the wolf problem out west, yet they touted themselves as some big time LGD breeder. Hmmmmm. Ok....!

In a nutshell, I removed myself from all of them and just hang out here. I truly enjoy this forum and the mostly civil manner we all address each other with. If you are game for being beaten to a pulp however, you can join some of the others and you'll see pretty quick what I am talking about. My one friend on here, kid you not, took him only one post and one day to be attacked viciously, I do mean bad. I jumped in there claws and teeth showing and tried to back him up. Pack mentality seems to rule on those other boards. And the people spouting off seem to think they are the end-all and know alls of the LGD world. Cripes, the day I think I'm an expert...well, ain't gonna happen. I am always learning!

We may all disagree sometimes here but we seem to be able to let it go, too and move on. So there's my .02 cents worth, but don't let it stop you from checking them out!


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Goatress said:


> Let me preface my answer by saying how much I enjoy this forum here. Not only the guard animals section either. We have everything from newbies and rank amateurs to old hands and everyone in between here. Granted sometimes tempers flare a bit but we all seem to be able to get along with a fair amount of grace and tolerance and our fluffed feathers settle fairly quickly. There is a respect here that is lacking on so many other LGD forums.
> 
> I'm not even going to list them by name, because frankly, over all, I have been disappointed in them. But yes there are a few on Yahoo groups and one privately run sheep forum has an LGD section that I got booted off from, merely for sticking up for a newcomer who was totally trashed, kicked, slandered and disgraced (he moved over here and has been treated wonderfully!). They are narrowminded, slanted, and post with pack mentality....I won't mention the names.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you, this is the place to be...people here seem to beopen minded, and do not put down on what you know or what you do. And dont gang up on you because they think their way is the ONLY way. I too feel bad for any newcomers on some chat groups because they only get what the moderators and their buddies want you to learn. And if you make a suggestion...automatically you are told your wrong...even though it works for you. This site gives you options from all prespectives and allows you to learn and grow. Just my 5 cents 

BTW I am training my 2 LGD's by the advice given here on this site....and my boys are awesome!!!...Thanks to all here on HT


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## R&R Farm (Jun 12, 2008)

Yea, I've noticed the same on the dairy goat forums. I like HT because the know-it-alls and their buddies can't get away with their tactics here. They do visit and post, but they are not allowed to talk down to people like they do on their forum.


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## Mrs. Mucket (Apr 22, 2010)

Mike--I really like [email protected] . Obviously it is mostly Maremma owners, but much of the information applies to other LGD breeds as well.


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

start here

http://www.lgd.org/lgdl.html

and for other breeds

http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-PLUTO.exe?INDEX

this page goes to "M" so you have to go to page 2 for more.

I think this is what you are looking for.


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## R&R Farm (Jun 12, 2008)

I appreciate all the links and comments. I don't know how to work these lists but have joined almost all of them....Mike


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## MonsterMalak (Apr 15, 2011)

Thanks for the question. When I get a break from ballgames and cheerleading (4 kids), I would love to research some of them. I cannot say how much I have enjoyed the hospitality on this forum. 
I was eaten alive on a sheep forum, For having bigger dogs, more capable dogs, etc.... The people all contradicted each other in their attack on me. Statements like "you might as well go out their with AK-47s and kill all the wolves."
That liverstock do not include goats, cows, or other farm animals... only sheep.???
That I could not even begin to raise LGD's without a large flock of sheep on open range.
Then when sent a private email by a moderator, was told this same person runs her 200 sheep behind a "Electric Net Fence" 1-2 acres, and moved every few days. So I guess since her dogs were effective behind a electric net fence, no one has a need for larger more capable LGD's. 
I feel the breed pride, competition, ego, and everything else causes much of the static with the topic. 
I do appretiate the atmosphere here. As it is nice to have a place you can go to learn and share. 
Thanks for the links.


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## lockhart76 (Jul 31, 2011)

Statements like "you might as well go out their with AK-47s and kill all the wolves."

This is ridiculous. Poison, hunters/trappers, and guns will indiscriminately kill wolves, coyotes, etc. More is better. Our goal on our ranch is to increase biodiversity, all of it, even predators such as the much maligned coyote. Having dogs allows us to run our sheep w/o having to employ a "scorched earth policy". There are coyotes that learn/know not to eat sheep or come within "X" distance of them. They get to stay in the area and coexist quite well. Any other method is simply unsustainable b/c you will never get rid of all the predators. Kill all the coyotes within a 100mile radius and within a matter of time just as many will move into the now unoccupied area. We must learn to live with them as part of our operations and dogs is one of the best ways (actually, THE best =) this coexistence can take place.

also, I too have grown to appreciate this forum. sorry to hijack this thread.


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## MonsterMalak (Apr 15, 2011)

Lockhart76

You have touched on a subject that I feel has been far to under explored or discussed.
I am going to start a new thread on this subject, as I feel sharing these thoughts, experience and views could help us all. There is a strong push by the Animal Rights Groups to outlaw LGD,s. Sadly some of the wildlife groups have jumped on board.

With myself, I have a strong view that humans have taken far to big of a share of the Earth. I am a conservationist of sorts. I raise some Endangered fowl just for the thought of helping preserve them. I get happy when a cougar is spotted in our area. I would gladly vote to re-release the Red Wolf into East Texas.
Working with LGDs is a way to coexist in nature with the predators. Extermination is not only immoral, but (for the people only concerned about humans) offsets the balance formed over eons. Predators keep a balance that has evolved for each specific area. Upset that, and other things suffer, things we seldom realize untill to late. We need to educate the public, wildlife people, gov agencies, and ranchers that continue to kill the predators. The Cheetah Foundation has embraced the Anatolian and Kangal to give the African herders an alternative to killing the Cheetah. An effort to do the same would do wonders here.
Waterfowl have suffered from the poliferation of the coyote, raccoon and every other small predators. This is caused by the removal of the Wolf, that kept all the smaller predators populations down, but itself mostly preyed on larger game. Upset the balance! Deer overpopulations that crash on drought years causing mass dieoffs, because their populations were not kept in balance. 
For the ranchers that are loosing their LGDs to Wolves and Mt Lion, show them there are alternatives. Protection collars, more capable dogs, dogs with different work styles, running more than 1-2 dogs,,,,,,,etc. In Europe, the studies show that areas with strong historical cultures of working with LGDs still have intact predator populations. The people have figured out a way to coexist, and the predators figure out that easyier meals exist. That the predators that are only chased away 1-300 yards will return frequently to probe the opportunities and weaknesses. That when chased away 1-2 miles, will seldom attempt to try again. Many ranchers are hessitant to use a dog that LEAVES the flock to chase predators. Option would be to run both types. Turkish LGDs for chase away, and Pyrenees for base protection. 
After being slammed on other LESS MODERATED forums for introducing a dog that COULD kill a Wolf or Mt Lion, let me say that tat would not be the result. Saying the Boz "COULD" fight and survive the average encounter dosn't mean that it would happen often. Predators have an instinct to survive also. Risk analysis would teach them that less risky meals exist. The Boz would fill a void where the Grey Wolves are killing and eating Great Pyrenees type LGDs. They are far more canine aggressive, physically able, fast, and work on perimeter removal or CHASE OFF method. My observations are that with Fighting capability, the Kangal is 2x more able than the Pyrenees Types, the Boz are 2x the Kangals. Not to say the Pyrenees types do not have a need or place. Probable 80% of the farms or opperations work fine with them. I ran them for 16+ years. They would work good untill the Coyote pact build up enough strength to overpower my 2-3 dogs. Could have been prevented with a few more dogs. But I chose a new breed, and havn't heard them howl in years.
There is a place or job for every type of LGD and their different work styles, temperments, environmental tollerances, etc... Thats why I do not understand the RESISTANCE by some to newly introduced breeds. Competition, pride or just skeptacism, I do not understand it. 
Divided we will fall,,, Or at least together we can learn! Lets all embrace others viewpoints, knowledge, experience. And if they are incapable,,, let the moderators slap them down.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

http://livestockguardiandogs.freeforums.org/index.php

Just starting up. Nothing but LGD and LGD related discussions.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

I'm updating the above referenced new LGD forum post...the new url is now:

http://www.livestockguardiandogs.com


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## greercp (29 d ago)

Goatress said:


> Let me preface my answer by saying how much I enjoy this forum here. Not only the guard animals section either. We have everything from newbies and rank amateurs to old hands and everyone in between here. Granted sometimes tempers flare a bit but we all seem to be able to get along with a fair amount of grace and tolerance and our fluffed feathers settle fairly quickly. There is a respect here that is lacking on so many other LGD forums. I'm not even going to list them by name, because frankly, over all, I have been disappointed in them. But yes there are a few on Yahoo groups and one privately run sheep forum has an LGD section that I got booted off from, merely for sticking up for a newcomer who was totally trashed, kicked, slandered and disgraced (he moved over here and has been treated wonderfully!). They are narrowminded, slanted, and post with pack mentality....I won't mention the names. There are two main LGD forums on Yahoo that are dominated by a few know-it-alls who talked down to me like I was some idiot (I have 35 some years of cattle ranching experience and lifelong dog breeder). Come to find out the one moderator is a show goat farmer and was mentioned in one of the two LGD books out there and it's completely gone to his head. Another LGD group moderator prides themselves on 'collecting' LGD breeds, and has a goal of owning every one in the world, something that struck me as odd if not downright questionable. The more I heard them talk the more I realized they were downright clueless...didn't even know about the wolf problem out west, yet they touted themselves as some big time LGD breeder. Hmmmmm. Ok....! In a nutshell, I removed myself from all of them and just hang out here. I truly enjoy this forum and the mostly civil manner we all address each other with. If you are game for being beaten to a pulp however, you can join some of the others and you'll see pretty quick what I am talking about. My one friend on here, kid you not, took him only one post and one day to be attacked viciously, I do mean bad. I jumped in there claws and teeth showing and tried to back him up. Pack mentality seems to rule on those other boards. And the people spouting off seem to think they are the end-all and know alls of the LGD world. Cripes, the day I think I'm an expert...well, ain't gonna happen. I am always learning! We may all disagree sometimes here but we seem to be able to let it go, too and move on. So there's my .02 cents worth, but don't let it stop you from checking them out!


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## Jolly_Free (16 d ago)

For those curious, none of the above links work.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Maybe, just maybe, Jolly_Free, it's because the thread is from *2011*


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## Jolly_Free (16 d ago)

Wolf mom said:


> Maybe, just maybe, Jolly_Free, it's because the thread is from *2011.*


I was aware of that, I'm not the one who revived it, lol. 

I only added my two cents in to alert other users who may initially miss the date that none of the other forums linked still exist.


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