# cheyenne rodeo NEEDS to be stopped WARNING ⚠️:sensitive content



## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

I’m ranting about this rodeo that has got away with animal abuse for the longest time and I love going to rodeos but this rodeo is pure torture these are not my photos but this is just sad all the animals killed at every rode.







this calf was paralyzed straight after this I read up on it .







this horse died soon after they shot him dead after breaking 2 legs just disappointed this beautiful creature is put through this.







nobody did anything about it other than run over the horse.







a face of fear on this horse poor baby







this horse had an injured hoofand you can see all the blood everywhere and nobody did anything about it! Like what sick animals could they be to laugh at a hurt animal?!
(Btw I do not hate rodeos at all i actually love them I just feel bad for the animals at this rodeo if anyone has input I would like to hear keep rude comments twords me out please . )


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

That rodeo isn’t any different from others. Unfortunately, a photographer caught some of the injuries. He probably made some money selling those pictures.

If you weren’t in the stands, you actually do not know how the animals were attended to.

These sports are based on ranch activities. Accidents happen on ranches, too.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

I never heard of it, so I read a few articles to see what you were talking about. It seemed like most of the critical pieces were pretty well saturated with emotional platitudes, and even some completely unnecessary social justice plays. One of them actually had this piece of tripe, referring to when a native Hawaiian won in 1908


> The 1908 outcome, though brutal for the steers involved, was a debacle for Old West white supremacy that rodeo cowboy culture spent the next 90 years trying to live down and forget.


Most of the advocacy seems to be coming from a PETAesque group called SHARK.

Admittedly, I don’t know enough about it after 15 or 20 minutes reading, but my ignorant assumption would be that cowboy sport is pretty rough, all around, and I’ve come to not take the word of activists (of any flavor) at face value.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

It's pretty rough on the cowboys and cowgirls too.


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I never heard of it, so I read a few articles to see what you were talking about. It seemed like most of the critical pieces were pretty well saturated with emotional platitudes, and even some completely unnecessary social justice plays. One of them actually had this piece of tripe, referring to when a native Hawaiian won in 1908
> 
> 
> Most of the advocacy seems to be coming from a PETAesque group called SHARK.
> ...


Yeah I’m not an activist I just feel bad that one they made a horse buck who was obviously hurt like that’s warning one ! But other than that I’m definitely not a activist cause I don’t care much for what happens at rodeos unless its Ridiculous.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Justaffagirl said:


> Yeah I’m not an activist I just feel bad that one they made a horse buck who was obviously hurt like that’s warning one ! But other than that I’m definitely not a activist cause I don’t care much for what happens at rodeos unless its Ridiculous.


I totally understand your dilemma. I was at a rodeo nearby last week and a calf got hurt. The calf was ok but it was iffy for a while. Also, 2 contestants were hurt also. I go to the next one in 2 weeks. It does happen but rest assured, they do everything they can to minimize the damage to both people and animal.


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

mreynolds said:


> I totally understand your dilemma. I was at a rodeo nearby last week and a calf got hurt. The calf was ok but it was iffy for a while. Also, 2 contestants were hurt also. I go to the next one in 2 weeks. It does happen but rest assured, they do everything they can to minimize the damage to both people and animal.


Yeah I understand they try I just can’t Believe how many animals get hurt there


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Justaffagirl said:


> Yeah I understand they try I just can’t Believe how many animals get hurt there


I admit, I have never been to Cheyenne rodeo. Cant speak for them. Just for the ones in Texas. Different breeders and different rodeo sponsors may have differing views. 

I cant imagine one wanting to hurt animals on purpose though as that would cause ticket sale losses. That one calf had over half the people there holding their breath until he got up. One thing I know is certain about rodeos. Some people root for the riders but most root for the animals.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

I've seen worse things happen to people than to animals at rodeos. I once saw a bronc fall onto his rider and crush him to bits... he was hospitalized and was lucky to survive. 

Personally, I'm not concerned whatsoever because these photos are the exception not the norm.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

HDRider said:


>


I know this song


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Rodeo animals, especially bulls and horses are expensive so they get treated very well most of the time.
I hate to see anyone intentionally abuse an animal, but accidents happen.
The horse with the injured hoof above, I'd bet good money it got injured after the gate was open. Probably caught it on something, and you can bet the problem was found and corrected.
I doubt they'd deliberately buck an injured horse, if for no other reason than they are valuable animals.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Justaffagirl said:


> Yeah I’m not an activist I just feel bad that one they made a horse buck who was obviously hurt like that’s warning one ! But other than that I’m definitely not a activist cause I don’t care much for what happens at rodeos unless its Ridiculous.


If you are not an activist, why are you disseminating propaganda for activists?


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

There are more horses injured by feely good horse lovers than by rodeos. Nutritional injury is just as painful and deadly, and much more widespread.So why don't we go full AR and advocate freeing all the horses, and we will stop driving so we don't spook them, and we will go vegan, and then realizing we are stealing their food, we can all jump off cliffs?


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

barnbilder, stop being mean to the child. She is still in school. You are treating her like she is 30 or 40.


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

barnbilder said:


> If you are not an activist, why are you disseminating propaganda for activists?


Just becuase I’m a rancher who is speaking up for animals doesn’t make me an animal I’m just looking at some bad things that have happened at that rodeo


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

barnbilder said:


> There are more horses injured by feely good horse lovers than by rodeos. Nutritional injury is just as painful and deadly, and much more widespread.So why don't we go full AR and advocate freeing all the horses, and we will stop driving so we don't spook them, and we will go vegan, and then realizing we are stealing their food, we can all jump off cliffs?


Did I ever say you should do that NO I didn’t so how about you go on and do your own stuff I SAID KEEP ALL THE BAD COMMENTS OFF MY THREAD


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

barnbilder said:


> There are more horses injured by feely good horse lovers than by rodeos. Nutritional injury is just as painful and deadly, and much more widespread.So why don't we go full AR and advocate freeing all the horses, and we will stop driving so we don't spook them, and we will go vegan, and then realizing we are stealing their food, we can all jump off cliffs?


Also it’s not like I’m saying this rodeo is bad I’m just pointing out some of its bad quality’s


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## Wise Acres (Feb 11, 2021)

Oh dear... where to start?

First off - the first horse you are talking about in pics 2, 3 & 4 are not even the same horse!! It is easy to tell by it's coloring. If you are lying to us about that (and it is a lie) what else is untrue about your post? Probably most if not all of it.

Secondly - You hang up a dishonest and inflammatory post and then cry for no one to say mean things about you. Stuff it.


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

Wise Acres said:


> Oh dear... where to start?
> 
> First off - the first horse you are talking about in pics 2, 3 & 4 are not even the same horse!! It is easy to tell by it's coloring. If you are lying to us about that (and it is a lie) what else is untrue about your post? Probably most if not all of it.
> 
> Secondly - You hang up a dishonest and inflammatory post and then cry for no one to say mean things about you. Stuff it.


Ok if you actually read with your eyes maybe you would see I wasn’t even talking about one horse I was talking about all of them wise guy I wasn’t just talking about that one horse!


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

Wise Acres said:


> Oh dear... where to start?
> 
> First off - the first horse you are talking about in pics 2, 3 & 4 are not even the same horse!! It is easy to tell by it's coloring. If you are lying to us about that (and it is a lie) what else is untrue about your post? Probably most if not all of it.
> 
> Secondly - You hang up a dishonest and inflammatory post and then cry for no one to say mean things about you. Stuff it.


So how about you get off my thread maybe try to read my thread again maybe you’ll see I wasn’t talking about one specific horse! I was talking about all of them and if I was lying then all the news and other people were lying to


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

She is high school age, but she does seem to have a backbone.


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

whiterock said:


> She is high school age, but she does seem to have a backbone.


Thanks


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

whiterock said:


> She is high school age, but she does seem to have a backbone.


Don’t know if that’s a compliment but just trying to show what happens SOMETIMES at this rodeo not saying this rodeo is a bad place but they have brought people from prison to strangle some horses and jump on them with saddle or the milking cow thing it’s kinda weird to me where they chase a cow and milk it while running? don’t know I just find that kinda weird not abusive just kinda weird makes me scratch my head?


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## Wise Acres (Feb 11, 2021)

Silly girl said: "this horse died soon after they shot him dead after breaking 2 legs just disappointed this beautiful creature is put through this." (photo) ..."nobody did anything about it other than run over the horse." (photo) ..."a face of fear on this horse poor baby"

How 'bout if I follow you around through your day constantly snapping photos. How many grimacing, or otherwise horrific poses could I capture of you? My work would be over before b'fast.

BTW - passing lies is just as bad as telling them in the first place. Take responsibility for yourself, toots.


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

I’m not passing lies I just posted this to show some stuff that happens at the rodeo? So why did you come into this thread after I said if you have something mean to say don’t come in this thread


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Those of us in farm and ranch life are very tired of the activist shams.

you are falling for an emotional manipulation by them.

animals and people get hurt in the wild, in entertainment, on farms, on ranches.

long gone are the times such harm was intentional or ignored.

you have been manipulated by people with evil intentions. The ones that release such bogus stories. They want your money, they want power, and they are manipulating you with bs to get it.

it appears you mean well and you aren’t one of the evil people. Butas you study up on them and learn more about what they really are, and how faked their pictures and words are, you will understand the cold shoulder you are getting here.

if you care about animals and people, don’t support the truly evil people, as you accidentally are now.

Paul


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

rambler said:


> Those of us in farm and ranch life are very tired of the activist shams.
> 
> you are falling for an emotional manipulation by them.
> 
> ...


Ok I have much farm animals and people are calling me an activists but I know the whole process of an animal getting hurt I’ve seen animals hurt by accident and I understand it.


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## Wise Acres (Feb 11, 2021)

Justaffagirl said:


> I’m not passing lies I just posted this to show some stuff that happens at the rodeo? So why did you come into this thread after I said if you have something mean to say don’t come in this thread


You are passing lies. I proved it and you admitted it by blaming it on others. Why do you come to a blog that is based in great part on people working with animals and spat out this nonsense if your intent is not to get people to read and respond? Play mean games, win mean prizes.
Now if you will excuse me, I have a big person's job and big person's responsibilities. As fun as it has been to slap down your stupid and baseless arguments, I must attend to real life. I suggest you do the same. It will help you to grow up and mature.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

The U of C vet faculty took a whole year and studied the physical and psychological effects for rodeo animals and came up with some interesting results. 

Rodeo livestock are extremely well treated, bucking is a natural behaviour for animals, accidents do happen on occasion but they happen on race tracks, show jumping arenas and farms, ranches and acreages acreages across the world. 

I would wonder if the OP has eaten commercial beef, pork or poultry recently. Factory farms are not good for livestock and the slaughter process doesn't always work ideally. 

I appreciate a vigorous debate but won't waste my time debating garbage propaganda.


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

wr said:


> The U of C vet faculty took a whole year and studied the physical and psychological effects for rodeo animals and came up with some interesting results.
> 
> Rodeo livestock are extremely well treated, bucking is a natural behaviour for animals, accidents do happen on occasion but they happen on race tracks, show jumping arenas and farms, ranches and acreages acreages across the world.
> 
> ...


Actually I have my own farm with cattle AND I SHOW ANIMALS 
So yes actually I have eaten beef recently and guess what we send our animals to slaughter every month or so


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Justaffagirl said:


> Ok I have much farm animals and people are calling me an activists but I know the whole process of an animal getting hurt I’ve seen animals hurt by accident and I understand it.


yes. But what you are trying to ‘report’ here is not really true.

I do not think you are intentionally lying to us.

I believe you mean well, and your emotional attachment to animals is clouding your judgement on this issue.

just the way those animal activists hope for.

you are carrying their false message for them.

those pictures are staged or edited to look terrible.

they do not represent anything real.

you are being used by bad people.

we shouldn’t attack you.

but you should research more, and understand more, how wrong you are on this.

it is difficult to hold your hand and walk you through this on a forum..... I wish I could.

you will always come back with, but I just care about the animals!

because they did a good job lying to you, and working on your emotions.

in the end, they are the evil, the people you believe now.

we all care about animals.

we don’t like lies.

and that is what you are sharing here.

you are being manipulated. You are being lied to.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Justaffagirl said:


> Actually I have my own farm with cattle AND I SHOW ANIMALS
> So yes actually I have eaten beef recently and guess what we send our animals to slaughter every month or so


Post some pics of your stuff


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

HDRider said:


> Post some pics of your stuff


She has. Many pics. In CF.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Justaffagirl said:


> Ok I have much farm animals and people are calling me an activists but I know the whole process of an animal getting hurt I’ve seen animals hurt by accident and I understand it.


You kept your FFA wether as a pet. That's hobby farming in the most liberal sense of the word, not true ranching. Saying you are a rancher is a little bit of a stretch in this case.
I've held my tongue this long, but did you really expect to post something this inflammatory and not get pushback for it? You cant just post something like this on a PUBLIC forum and then tell people to get off "your" thread whenever you dont like what they say... I know you're just a kid, but you do need to learn these things.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

I was in the ffa too.

friends of ours have horses. Just for a pet, the horse has weak ribs, the cartilage I guess, so can’t even ride her young horse. Loves it tho. She also loves rodeos. She cares about critters to, as we all do.

I have a momma cat, new to us. She had 5 kittens, one was weak and died in 2 days, the others are now 3 weeks old and cute as can be. Momma is not a close pet she keeps a wary eye on us. I take pictures and video of the kitties almost every day, my wife’s family likes to see them.

sometimes the kitties move just when I take a pic, and it looks horrible. One pic it looked like momma was eating one! Sheez! It was just the camera angle and some blur from motion.

It was sad the weak kitten died, and a picture of that would easily make me out to be a horrible, cat abusing person. If that is the story you wanted to create?

pictures can be picked to show things that aren’t there.

you are being fed lies about all this. The pictures you see were chosen to look bad. It is all a big lie.

please be better than this. Actually care about animals, don’t support liars. Don’t repeat their evil.

work to make this a better world.

Paul


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

It is hard to imagine a world in which everyone has a happy ending. Life’s a bugger at best and a quick painless death is the best we can hope for.


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

RJ2019 said:


> You kept your FFA wether as a pet. That's hobby farming in the most liberal sense of the word, not true ranching. Saying you are a rancher is a little bit of a stretch in this case.
> I've held my tongue this long, but did you really expect to post something this inflammatory and not get pushback for it? You cant just something like this on a PUBLIC forum and then tell people to get off "your" thread whenever you dont like what they say? I know you're just a kid, but you do need to learn these things.


Yeah but the next two goats I’m showing are going straight to slaughter after the show year


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

HDRider said:


> Post some pics of your stuff


Here you go here’s some of my stuff Some of the animal out at the ranch ! Keep up with the...


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Justaffagirl said:


> Here you go here’s some of my stuff Some of the animal out at the ranch ! Keep up with the...


It's a nice start for a hobby farm but still doesn't justify promoting PETA's adjenda nor does ot justify telling others how they must think.


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

wr said:


> It's a nice start for a hobby farm but still doesn't justify promoting PETA's adjenda nor does ot justify telling others how they must think.


Isn’t a hobby farm where you don’t sell your animals becuase we sell our cows?


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

Never mind I was getting it mixed up


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

once you post a thread on here. everybody and his dog owns it (unless of course you have it all deleted) i know because my pics were taken and put on a food blog years ago and claimed as their own. (not that i really cared about that though) ~Georgia


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Justaffagirl said:


> Isn’t a hobby farm where you don’t sell your animals becuase we sell our cows?


Your ability to discuss the subject you present is weak because your research is lacking. 

Do you have an opinon on the U of C study regarding rodeo animals? Have you researched other sports involving horses and do you have an opinion on that as well? Race tracks cripple and kill more horses a year than rodeo ever will and polo isn't much better. 

I'd love to hear how much time and research you've put into this subject, including research into arena and association rules that cover animal abuse, how many vets must be in attendance lest an animal be injured, the average value of rough stock and regulations regarding their care as well as natural animal behaviors.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Justaffagirl said:


> GunMonkeyIntl said:
> 
> 
> > I never heard of it, so I read a few articles to see what you were talking about. It seemed like most of the critical pieces were pretty well saturated with emotional platitudes, and even some completely unnecessary social justice plays. One of them actually had this piece of tripe, referring to when a native Hawaiian won in 1908
> ...


To be clear, I wasn’t referring to you as an activist. I was referring to SHARK; the organization that appeared to be driving most of the negative articles about this particular rodeo in the limited research I did after reading your post.

For what it’s worth, the articles that included the dissenting, pro-rodeo view made some valid points in its favor. For instance, for the last several years, a competitor who pulled down a calf in the manner depicted in your photo would be immediately disqualified. That is just one example, but it’s a point that can be verified (vs the mostly subjective platitudes that SHARK had to offer) that shows that the organizers are actively doing things to mitigate animal injuries.

The photos you provided are the same ones that SHARK seemed to get inserted in the articles they drove, so I’m guessing that you read one or more of their pieces, and arrived at your “rant”, as you called it, in your first post.

Going forward, you’ll find a more rounded basis for your own opinion by intentionally seeking out the other side of the discussion for things you find outraging. It may not change the opinion you form, but it might.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> To be clear, I wasn’t referring to you as an activist. I was referring to SHARK; the organization that appeared to be driving most of the negative articles about this particular rodeo in the limited research I did after reading your post.
> 
> For what it’s worth, the articles that included the dissenting, pro-rodeo view made some valid points in its favor. For instance, for the last several years, a competitor who pulled down a calf in the manner depicted in your photo would be immediately disqualified. That is just one example, but it’s a point that can be verified (vs the mostly subjective platitudes that SHARK had to offer) that shows that the organizers are actively doing things to mitigate animal injuries.
> 
> ...


SHARK's big upset focuses on a new Disney movie called, Aloha Rodeo, based on a book, which focuses on 3 Hawaiians who travelled to the US in 1908 and is intended to showcase the history and culture of the paniolos. 

Rather than celebrate the history and culture of paniolos, some prefer to erase their very existence or use their significant achievements as a platform to spread misinformation to bully and harrass, ranchers and athletes.


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

wr said:


> SHARK's big upset focuses on a new Disney movie called, Aloha Rodeo, based on a book, which focuses on 3 Hawaiians who travelled to the US in 1908 and is intended to showcase the history and culture of the paniolos.
> 
> Rather than celebrate the history and culture of paniolos, some prefer to erase their very existence or use their significant achievements as a platform to spread misinformation to bully and harrass, ranchers and athletes.


See now that’s stupid I’m not so into those shark people it’s just a kids movie


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Justaffagirl said:


> See now that’s stupid I’m not so into those shark people it’s just a kids movie


You may not be into SHARK but you used their images and words to help achieve their mission but still refuse to respond to the questions I presented. 

Does that mean you aren't interested in facts? If you aren't interested in researching the University of Calgary animal science faculty research on the subject, perhaps you'd be interested in looking up Temple Grandin. She's considered a livestock genius and her thoughts are also backed by fact and science and her work should be read by anyone in the livestock industry.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Justaffagirl, 
You do not own the forum or the thread. You do not get to mandate responses.

Consider this a life lesson. Don’t stir up poop if you don’t want to deal with the stink.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Justaffagirl,
> You do not own the forum or the thread. You do not get to mandate responses.
> 
> Consider this a life lesson. Don’t stir up poop if you don’t want to deal with the stink.


I'm too old to deal with excuses and play kids games as well...


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Justaffagirl,
> You do not own the forum or the thread. You do not get to mandate responses.
> 
> Consider this a life lesson. Don’t stir up poop if you don’t want to deal with the stink.


I do own this thread?


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Justaffagirl,
> You do not own the forum or the thread. You do not get to mandate responses.
> 
> Consider this a life lesson. Don’t stir up poop if you don’t want to deal with the stink.


I’m the one who made it


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

That doesn’t mean what you think it means.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

TripleD said:


> I'm too old to deal with excuses and play kids games as well...


Couldn’t help myself.


How old may she be, Billy Boy, Billy Boy?
How old may she be, Charming Billy?
Three times six and four times seven, twenty-eight and eleven
But she's a young thing and cannot leave her mother


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

wr said:


> You may not be into SHARK but you used their images and words to help achieve their mission but still refuse to respond to the questions I presented.
> 
> Does that mean you aren't interested in facts? If you aren't interested in researching the University of Calgary animal science faculty research on the subject, perhaps you'd be interested in looking up Temple Grandin. She's considered a livestock genius and her thoughts are also backed by fact and science and her work should be read by anyone in the livestock industry.


Yeah pretty interested in the facts


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Justaffagirl said:


> Yeah pretty interested in the facts


Did you research any of the facts presented or learn anything from discussion?


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Agreed peta will stop all animals from making anyone money..think greyhound racing is all but done..last track is in wv.


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

wr said:


> Did you research any of the facts presented or learn anything from discussion?


I have researched a bit about this rodeo but it’s not always a bad thing at this rodeo honestly it seems fun to go to


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Forcast said:


> Agreed peta will stop all animals from making anyone money..think greyhound racing is all but done..last track is in wv.


And they want to stop hunting dogs too. That's just crazy because my dogs love it. He would go all year of the game warden let him.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Justaffagirl said:


> I have researched a bit about this rodeo but it’s not always a bad thing at this rodeo honestly it seems fun to go to


The rodeo here last week the roper thought he had broke the calf's foot and he disqualified himself from the match. He removed the rope and waited for the vet. When the vet got there he had only sprained it.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

Justaffagirl said:


> Did I ever say you should do that NO I didn’t so how about you go on and do your own stuff I SAID KEEP ALL THE BAD COMMENTS OFF MY THREAD


😂😂😂


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Justaffagirl said:


> Here you go here’s some of my stuff Some of the animal out at the ranch ! Keep up with the...


Thank you. That was nice


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> And they want to stop hunting dogs too. That's just crazy because my dogs love it. He would go all year of the game warden let him.


This.

A hunting dog is likely to catch a #6 from time to time, but, if you really want to see animal abuse, the kind that would make Sarah McLachlan cry the cuffs of her jeans soaking wet, deny a hunting dog the hunt.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Justaffagirl said:


> I do own this thread?


Since you volunteered that question mark there, I’ll take the opportunity to answer the question that probably really wasn’t meant as one.

No.

You don’t.

You don’t own this thread anymore than you own a conversation you struck up at the feed store. The folks you’re talking to have every bit as much right to respond to your comment as you had to make it in the first place.

I’d gathered that you were fairly young, so I took a more gentle approach than the coarseness I’m generally known (and loved!) for.

The bottom line is that you saw some animal activist propaganda and bought it, hook, line and sinker. The opinion that took you all of about 30 seconds to assemble was challenged, and it chapped your bottom a little bit.

If you’d looked into “the rest of the story”, your opinion might have been different. It might not have been- and that would be OK. But, the difference would have been that, had you actually taken the time to assemble a defensible position, you’d have been able to defend it. Not everyone here aligns on every topic. By and large, though, our bull**** meters are pretty well-calibrated. You got called on carrying a patty in on your shoe. No big deal.

Don’t let this scrum run you off. Just put a little more thought into what you bring to the table, and you’ll do fine here.



Oh, and have a period key installed on your keyboard, while you’re at it, and pay at least a little attention in English class. It doesn’t have to be perfect, but we prefer to be able to actually read what our friends here are writing. Stream of consciousness died, and was interred in Hunter S. Thompson’s casket. 
Nobody mourns its loss.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Justaffagirl said:


> I do own this thread?


nope.

Internet forums are a group thing, some version of the Homesteading Today people corporately own this site and its contents. You have some minor control of the messages you wrote, But generally you sign those rights away in the fine print of any Internet forum just by using it.

You do not and never will own the thread. Ever.

unless you start your own internet forum.

this is how these things work.

you throw something out there, and others can throw their something out there. It’s a community.

the forum owners can set up rules as to what you are allowed to throw out there. This place is pretty good, they want us to just be respectful of each other.

I realize many of us end up looking pretty hostile to you. I don’t intend that, I want to welcome and work with you and enjoy your views on things.

on this one topic, I think you have been mislead by false news, and I am going to stand by that until you could prove otherwise. You are following evil minded people in sheep’s clothing......

but, I like critters and enjoy me pets and have enjoyed being in ffa a long time ago and I hope we can chat about things in common some days too.

good luck into the future, keep on keeping on!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Justaffagirl said:


> I have researched a bit about this rodeo but it’s not always a bad thing at this rodeo honestly it seems fun to go to


Cheyenne is one of the very oldest rodeos in US history. I'm not sure how much reserarch beyond 'fun' you did but it generates a great deal of tourism, employs a lot of people, generates a great deal of revenue for the exhibitors and is sanctioned by the PRCA and subject to all PRCA rules, just like any other professional rodeo. 

It has a unique setup for certain events but the livestock are still treated with great care. Having grown up in a rodeo family, I can assure you that there is roughstock that are insured for as much as $2 million and not many take risks with assets of that value. Any stock being used at the big professsional shows are considered elite athletes and are treated accordingly.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Justaffagirl, don't let the comments on this thread run you off the forum. Take them and learn from them and you will be wiser for it. I'm willing to bet that every one of us has been caught on the wrong side of a debate at some point. The internet makes it more public and sometimes seems to make it more personal. You love animals and hate to see them mistreated on purpose. We get that, many (if not all) of us feel the same way. But we also have spent years watching what animal rights organizations are doing to mislead the general public. You fell for some propaganda and shared misinformation. It's not like you committed a crime or threw paint on a person wearing fur. Sure, some comments could be considered a bit harsh. But in life you will deal with all kinds of people and all kinds of attitude. In life there would be people that would make really mean and nasty comments, but that isn't allowed on this forum.

All threads posted on this board are property of the board owners. I'm pretty sure there is a legal disclosure stating that info somewhere in the terms of use. Yes, you started the thread but you don't get to make the rules as to who posts and what they say in response.

Do some research on SHARK and Steve Hindi and Cheyenne rodeo. You'll see the reasons behind some of the negative comments on this thread.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Recognizing the immense cruelty towards the animals at rodeos is nothing new. The first complaints and protests were started in the 1870s - 150 years ago. So obviously no one cares much and the laws are not changing anywhere. Every year at the Calgary Stampede there are horse deaths from the Chuck Wagon Races. The death total from 1986 to 2019 is102 horses. It is a clear example of the drivers not caring about anything but winning because the horses are not dying during all the training runs the teams are doing at home or during the warm up to the races. And of course there are always calves dying because of shattered spines during the roping contests - either instantly or having to be killed. Just as disgusting as the Roman circuses.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

emdeengee said:


> Recognizing the immense cruelty towards the animals at rodeos is nothing new. The first complaints and protests were started in the 1870s - 150 years ago. So obviously no one cares much and the laws are not changing anywhere. Every year at the Calgary Stampede there are horse deaths from the Chuck Wagon Races. The death total from 1986 to 2019 is102 horses. It is a clear example of the drivers not caring about anything but winning because the horses are not dying during all the training runs the teams are doing at home or during the warm up to the races. And of course there are always calves dying because of shattered spines during the roping contests - either instantly or having to be killed. Just as disgusting as the Roman circuses.


How do you know that no horses are injured at home or in training? Additionally, if nobody cares, would you like to address the rules for for both wagon racing and rodeo events or are you just regurgitating the message of a special interest group? 

I'd also be interested in your thoughts on polo, the horse racing industry, show jumping and you're welcome to provide your insight into the remaining pmu farms.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

He is regurgitating. I was going to rebut item by item, but typing with one hand.....not worth it. WR took care of it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> He is regurgitating. I was going to rebut item by item, but typing with one hand.....not worth it. WR took care of it.


If I were going to mind somebody else's business, I would express my dismay at the pelt industry but I don't think it's trendy to discuss the negatives of that particular industry anymore.


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## IlliniosGal (Jun 3, 2019)

Wise Acres said:


> You are passing lies. I proved it and you admitted it by blaming it on others. Why do you come to a blog that is based in great part on people working with animals and spat out this nonsense if your intent is not to get people to read and respond? Play mean games, win mean prizes.
> Now if you will excuse me, I have a big person's job and big person's responsibilities. As fun as it has been to slap down your stupid and baseless arguments, I must attend to real life. I suggest you do the same. It will help you to grow up and mature.


Goodness, somebody needs to get over themselves a bit. Does it make you feel like a big person to attack other people??


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I don’t think you read the whole thread.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

wr said:


> If I were going to mind somebody else's business, I would express my dismay at the pelt industry but I don't think it's trendy to discuss the negatives of that particular industry anymore.


That is one of the worst. I abhor animal cruelty, and just from my own admittedly anthropomorphistic perspective, I think the worst form of animal abuse is to raise something in a cage.

A hamster or gerbil in a fish tank? Whatever. That’s like having a mansion to them. Raising a two-foot long mammal in a couple-square-foot cage, though, seems horrific to me.

For my own likely unpopular peeve: rabbit husbandry. The way most folks do it just seems incredibly cruel to me. Even a more painful death would be preferable to a life in a jail cell leading to a humane death.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> That is one of the worst. I abhor animal cruelty, and just from my own admittedly anthropomorphistic perspective, I think the worst form of animal abuse is to raise something in a cage.
> 
> A hamster or gerbil in a fish tank? Whatever. That’s like having a mansion to them. Raising a two-foot long mammal in a couple-square-foot cage, though, seems horrific to me.
> 
> For my own likely unpopular peeve: rabbit husbandry. The way most folks do it just seems incredibly cruel to me. Even a more painful death would be preferable to a life in a jail cell leading to a humane death.


That and a chain on a dog. If you have to chain a dog then give it away to someone who will care and love it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> That and a chain on a dog. If you have to chain a dog then give it away to someone who will care and love it.


That’s definitely another trigger for me.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> That and a chain on a dog. If you have to chain a dog then give it away to someone who will care and love it.


100%.

Chaining a dog is a crime against nature. It doesn’t matter if it’s against man’s law in your location or what you believe about Creation, dog chainers will have to account for that the day after their last day.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

This thread is a showcase of how animal rights works. People who are truly evil manipulate those who are simply misguided into attacking people, animals, and their ways of life. The comments on rabbits or mink in cages are truly ignorant, but made by people who are borderline sentient. Their voices, plus voices of the completely ignorant, and a dollar or two, and a few doctored pictures, a fake video or two, and a closed door bill signing by a government ruler, and whole ways of life for somebody disappears.

Rabbit husbandry, eww it's so horrible. Turn them loose, free the rabbits, oops, Australia did with horrible results. But observe. Rabbits will spend most of their time in an area smaller than a rabbit cage. They will venture out to feed and mate. If you brought food and mates to them, they would probably hang out in the warren, briar patch, or wherever, until their poop piled up too much. If you could put a wire bottom in their rabbit hole, bring food and mates, they wouldn't have to venture out at all. Because venturing out is bad. Males will fight, maybe biting off a testicle, and everything else likes to eat rabbit. Free range some homestead rabbits and watch what happens.

Not to mention that we could replace the entire broiler chicken industry with one that was more efficient, had less disastrous environmental impacts, and provided a more nutritionally appropriate product. But no, we have mouth breathing retards that wouldn't buy commercial rabbit, or farmer's market organic rabbit because "they are raised in jail".

Chain ordinances are a thing for dogs now, and usually in the same pen stroke keeping a livestock guardian dog outside in the snow is illegal. Yeah, I get it, a dog in the city tied to it's dirt spot for it's whole life is a pretty horrific life. But what about sled dogs? What about hunting dogs? I have a dog right here that has to stay in practically a concrete bunker. Want's to hunt, will ruin her teeth on chain link trying to get out of a normal kennel. Would run until she was a complete skeleton if allowed out, crossing roads, rivers, etc. She is perfectly content on a chain, but what would the neighbors say.. So here, get in the fortified bunker cage and wait until we have a full tank of gas and a charged up gps collar. Just like Huskies, yeah we will run twenty miles in a couple days, hang out on your chain until then, oh wait, this guy thousands of miles away thinks it's bad, so never mind. Guess he doesn't need an AR 15, because that completely doesn't affect me in any way, but I don't think he should have one. Dogs that don't require a chain are the real crimes against nature. Or dogs in town.

Omigosh, the pelts. How horrible to keep tunnel dwellers in the lavish conditions required for them to be profitable, and then unleash green clothing upon the world, with it's better insulating qualities and increased durability. Let's mine fossil fuels instead and kill these aquatic life forms with the pollution from our factory, and if any of them are left, we will choke them out with the micro plastic run-off from our discarded puffy coat. Because we certainly don't want to tell this guy whose feels are hurt that if he doesn't like mink ranching that he can simply not buy a ranched mink coat.

Every one of these "pet peeves" is a case study in animal rights. You get on board, push your ideals on other people, help them ram things through, and pat yourself on the back for strengthening the folks that are certain to come for your way of life next. Don't kill any fur babies, which are clearly almost human, and should be afforded the rights of humans. Don't you dare refer to a rabbit as a "clump of cells", even though they are basically a clump of cells, cells that some folks find a good protein source.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

barnbilder, that was very well written and politely worded.

Yeh, I'm horrible. My rabbits live in cages.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> That and a chain on a dog. If you have to chain a dog then give it away to someone who will care and love it.


You can add those who abandon pets to that list too. There are so many available resources for unwanted pets that I find it unacceptable to drop them off at the end of a gravel road with the belief that someone will find them and give them a home before they starve or coyotes kill them.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

barnbilder said:


> This thread is a showcase of how animal rights works. People who are truly evil manipulate those who are simply misguided into attacking people, animals, and their ways of life. The comments on rabbits or mink in cages are truly ignorant, but made by people who are borderline sentient. Their voices, plus voices of the completely ignorant, and a dollar or two, and a few doctored pictures, a fake video or two, and a closed door bill signing by a government ruler, and whole ways of life for somebody disappears.
> 
> Rabbit husbandry, eww it's so horrible. Turn them loose, free the rabbits, oops, Australia did with horrible results. But observe. Rabbits will spend most of their time in an area smaller than a rabbit cage. They will venture out to feed and mate. If you brought food and mates to them, they would probably hang out in the warren, briar patch, or wherever, until their poop piled up too much. If you could put a wire bottom in their rabbit hole, bring food and mates, they wouldn't have to venture out at all. Because venturing out is bad. Males will fight, maybe biting off a testicle, and everything else likes to eat rabbit. Free range some homestead rabbits and watch what happens.
> 
> ...


I once had a dog who could get out of ANY containment system imaginable. I tried a kennel, I tried electeic wires against the side of the kennel. Invisible fence too. Damned dog would test the electric fence every couple of days just to make sure it still worked... lol. Tried housing her with the goats, I mean I tried everything. She would climb over or dig under, or just ram through. Ultimately, she had to be chanined (and she kept slipping her collar but thats another story)... she was a real moron, would run off 15 miles every SINGLE time she got loose. Could not be trusted to be free for 15 seconds. Always having to go get her and bring her home. Tried giving her to a nice couple in town with a 6 ft wood fence.... nope, she scaled that and escaped too. So they brought her back. She HAD to be on a chain....there was no alternative whatsoever.
So I feel like making blanket statements about chained dogs when you dont have any idea of the situation is ignorant at best. I mean, what was I supposed to do, shoot her? In retrospect, it would have been a lot less trouble🙄


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

In Chicago they shoot around a dozen humans every weekend. And five or six of them die every weekend. I think we should ban Chicago. While we are at it, lets ban white people, and give the country back to the Indians. So, they can go back to killing each other, stealing women and children for slaves, and living in harmony with nature. If this banning thing were to catch on, there is no end to the good it might do.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

RJ2019 said:


> I once had a dog who could get out of ANY containment system imaginable. I tried a kennel, I tried electeic wires against the side of the kennel. Invisible fence too. Damned dog would test the electric fence every couple of days just to make sure it still worked... lol. Tried housing her with the goats, I mean I tried everything. She would climb over or dig under, or just ram through. Ultimately, she had to be chanined (and she kept slipping her collar but thats another story)... she was a real moron, would run off 15 miles every SINGLE time she got loose. Could not be trusted to be free for 15 seconds. Always having to go get her and bring her home. Tried giving her to a nice couple in town with a 6 ft wood fence.... nope, she scaled that and escaped too. So they brought her back. She HAD to be on a chain....there was no alternative whatsoever.
> So I feel like making blanket statements about chained dogs when you dont have any idea of the situation is ignorant at best. I mean, what was I supposed to do, shoot her? In retrospect, it would have been a lot less trouble🙄


Yes, I've had hunting dogs that were certified escape artists. People with the abhorrent mutants passing for pet canines have no idea. They want their freedom. But you can't grant them their freedom, until your supervision is available. Their freedom would get them in trouble, or dead. Six foot fence is an easy jump, three minutes of digging in any medium less dense than concrete gets them under. Unraveling chain link, unlatching any closure that does not involve a key, testing electric fence, unbuckling collars, slipping collars, dashing through an open gate, not listening to any call to heel until at least thirty miles has been run, all common. I had one that I kept on a chain, with two collars, in a pen. Needed multiple levels of redundancy to maintain captivity. Had another that would not do inside. Would curl up on the porch when done running, had impeccable homing abilities, but doors and windows were not allowable features on any structure that you attempted to lock her in, and then leave. The people that dream up tethering laws all think that the slobbering miscreant that is content to die of eventual obesity inside the confines of their abode are somehow representative of the species as a whole.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

barnbilder said:


> Yes, I've had hunting dogs that were certified escape artists. People with the abhorrent mutants passing for pet canines have no idea. They want their freedom. But you can't grant them their freedom, until your supervision is available. Their freedom would get them in trouble, or dead. Six foot fence is an easy jump, three minutes of digging in any medium less dense than concrete gets them under. Unraveling chain link, unlatching any closure that does not involve a key, testing electric fence, unbuckling collars, slipping collars, dashing through an open gate, not listening to any call to heel until at least thirty miles has been run, all common. I had one that I kept on a chain, with two collars, in a pen. Needed multiple levels of redundancy to maintain captivity. Had another that would not do inside. Would curl up on the porch when done running, had impeccable homing abilities, but doors and windows were not allowable features on any structure that you attempted to lock her in, and then leave. The people that dream up tethering laws all think that the slobbering miscreant that is content to die of eventual obesity inside the confines of their abode are somehow representative of the species as a whole.


My dogs stay home, no being on chains or locked in cells. They do roam around on our farm play in the creek etc but come when they are called. They also know better than to kill chickens, ducks, turkeys, goats etc. they are both rescue dogs, maybe they appreciate a good home?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

People who make blanket statements about chaining dogs, have never had a dog that can climb a eight foot chain link fence, or dig a tunnel faster than a Welsh miner. I have a Anatolian Shepard that lives on a chain. If she gets loose she will make a ten or fifteen mile circle, and only come home after three or four days. My neighbors, shoot stray dogs on sight.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

muleskinner2 said:


> People who make blanket statements about chaining dogs, have never had a dog that can climb a eight foot chain link fence, or dig a tunnel faster than a Welsh miner. I have a Anatolian Shepard that lives on a chain. If she gets loose she will make a ten or fifteen mile circle, and only come home after three or four days. My neighbors, shoot stray dogs on sight.


Have to wonder why some dogs don’t like being at home? Could it be lack of attention?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Or natural roamers. Look for the simple answer.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Or natural roamers. Look for the simple answer.


I do. Lack of proper care and miserable living conditions will create “natural roaming”.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Livestock guardian dogs and crosses are natural roamers. In the history of the canine world, roaming is a MUCH more natural behavior that being toted around in some bimbo’s purse


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Evons hubby said:


> Have to wonder why some dogs don’t like being at home? Could it be lack of attention?


She is a Anatolian Shepard, and she thinks that it is her job to guard anything she can see. If she can see into the next pasture, then it is her pasture.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

barnbilder said:


> This thread is a showcase of how animal rights works. People who are truly evil manipulate those who are simply misguided into attacking people, animals, and their ways of life. The comments on rabbits or mink in cages are truly ignorant, but made by people who are borderline sentient. Their voices, plus voices of the completely ignorant, and a dollar or two, and a few doctored pictures, a fake video or two, and a closed door bill signing by a government ruler, and whole ways of life for somebody disappears.
> 
> Rabbit husbandry, eww it's so horrible. Turn them loose, free the rabbits, oops, Australia did with horrible results. But observe. Rabbits will spend most of their time in an area smaller than a rabbit cage. They will venture out to feed and mate. If you brought food and mates to them, they would probably hang out in the warren, briar patch, or wherever, until their poop piled up too much. If you could put a wire bottom in their rabbit hole, bring food and mates, they wouldn't have to venture out at all. Because venturing out is bad. Males will fight, maybe biting off a testicle, and everything else likes to eat rabbit. Free range some homestead rabbits and watch what happens.
> 
> ...


I don’t think anyone was talking about using a chain as a method for regular containment. Where I am am, “chaining” a dog means clipping a chain to a puppy’s collar and letting it “protect” your house/drugs/whatever until you unhook the chain from the dog’s carcass and put a new pup in its place.

Almost every working dog has to be contained when it’s not working or their drive will get them into trouble. Some working dogs are kenneled, some are staked to a dog house. That’s not “chaining” a dog. That’s giving them a clear idea of when they are and are not working, and driven dogs usually need that.

I stand by my assertion that chaining a dog (as I know it) is evil. If you have a pet dog, and you have to resort to chaining it (and leaving it there), I believe it’s your responsibility to find another accommodation for it. If you can’t do better than that, then, yes, the humane thing is to put it down. That’s no kind of life.


I’m going to call BS on your _“rabbits would stay in an area smaller than a rabbit cage if their needs are met” _statement, though. That’s just, well, BS. Take the world’s best cared-for meat rabbit, open its door and walk away for an hour. Hell, just pay attention to the wild rabbits on your own property. They’ll move from one side my orchard to the other just for the exact same grass under a different tree.

That said, I acknowledged that I was anthropomophizing when I put myself in the place of the caged rabbit/mink/fox. If I list my biological needs, in order of my willingness to do without, freedom would be last on that list. If I had to go the rest of my life without good food, clean water, sex, or the freedom to roam, I would be a brown-water drinking celibate with calloused feet.

Which brings me to my overall point: we all have to draw our lines somewhere. Mine is biased toward freedom, and that means I can’t eat commercial chicken with a clean conscience. I would love to put in rabbits as a livestock on our place- I love rabbit meat, and kill as many as I can for the freezer- but I can’t bring myself to cage them. I think it’s wrong.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> If you have a pet dog,


I see your point, but I don't have any pet dogs. My old cow dog, a blue heeler lived for fifteen years, I had to put her down last fall. She had the run of the whole place for fifteen years, but I don't have any plans to replace her. My Anatolian Shepard is tied next to the goat pen, and she keeps the predators away. If I put her inside the goat pen, she climbs out and goes walkabout.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

muleskinner2 said:


> She is a Anatolian Shepard, and she thinks that it is her job to guard anything she can see. If she can see into the next pasture, then it is her pasture.





Alice In TX/MO said:


> Livestock guardian dogs and crosses are natural roamers. In the history of the canine world, roaming is a MUCH more natural behavior that being toted around in some bimbo’s purse


Wolves and coyotes are natural roamer, they are also shot on sight by most intelligent people.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Evons hubby said:


> My dogs stay home, no being on chains or locked in cells. They do roam around on our farm play in the creek etc but come when they are called. They also know better than to kill chickens, ducks, turkeys, goats etc. they are both rescue dogs, maybe they appreciate a good home?


I would probably take your dogs to the pound as they would be worthless to me. If I could smell deer, bear, coyote or fox, and chase them until they ran in front of a kid with a shotgun I probably wouldn't have dogs. That said, I love my dogs, the ones that have made the cut anyway. They seem to like me, as they will jump in my truck, and some of them won't let another human touch them. But they aren't likely to listen to me until they have been running for eight or ten hours, or unless my thumb is on their shock collar button. That is sometimes hard for people to understand, when they've only ever had non dog dogs, or dog facsimiles, or whatever these people have when they base all their baseless assertions. But I have no problem with you doing you, and if they are good enough to eat your food, I'm happy for you.

I'm also happy for the dog owners that have to live in a crappy place where if you don't chain a mean dog to the porch people will steal all your stuff. Far be it from me to tell them how to maintain their property, because that opens the door for people that have no business making decisions for anybody to make decisions for everybody. Pretty sure there are already basic animal cruelty laws on the books, if the dog strokes out in the sun with no water, besides the punishment of having to dispose of and replace a dog, the owners would already be held accountable, if in a locality that is in the habit of issuing citations. I see no real need to racially profile people whose way of life I don't understand, and assume that since they live where they live and tie a dog out front it's because they are on drugs. I don't say to myself, "Self, I know how we can fix these dark complected criminals, we can propose a tethering law, statewide, and that will make mean dogs who live in the ghetto's lives so much better." Because that would be stepping down a slippery slope.

This has many hallmarks of the gun control debate. "But drug dealer dogs tied to a porch on a short chain" is akin to "but the scary assault rifles with the multi clip magazines". I personally am a proponent of freedom. For humans. The real fundamental question is, are animals property? Do they belong to their owners, meaning that it is ultimately the owner's business how they are maintained, right up until it impacts another human being with real and tangible damages? Those are the fundamental questions at play, and if the answer is that animals are not property of humans, then that is a very profound juncture of civilization as we know it. If human life is not more sacred than animal life, there is an animal somewhere that wants to eat us, and we are denying him a meal. There are no shades, or degrees here, these are yes or no question with no room for buts. Animal rights (not animal welfare) groups have answered, and whether you believe or they will admit it, they are all in with their utter hatred for humanity. For them, it's just a matter of chiseling away freedoms. A rodeo here, a circus there, trapping in this state, hunting with dogs in that state, hunting bear in this state over here, horse racing, eating meat, defending your children from predators. Ban it all, there is no enough. It stops when every cage is open, every farm is empty, every neutered pet draws it's last breath, when every domestic breed is extinct, when every ounce of animal protein is forbidden. Or at least while the money is rolling in from outraged simpletons, depending upon how much of their own ideology a particular animal rights executive subscribes to.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Evons hubby said, “Wolves and coyotes are natural roamer, they are also shot on sight by most intelligent people.”

I disagree with the statement about shooting. Wolves and coyotes are part of the natural ecosystem. Most are NOT shot on sight. Some may be selectively shot when they become a problem in a given area.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Evons hubby said, “Wolves and coyotes are natural roamer, they are also shot on sight by most intelligent people.”
> 
> I disagree with the statement about shooting. Wolves and coyotes are part of the natural ecosystem. Most are NOT shot on sight. Some may be selectively shot when they become a problem in a given area.


Right, that’s why wolves had to be reintroduced into the lower 48 a few years back.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I was addressing current ideology.

Thank you for the opportunity to clarify.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I was addressing current ideology.
> 
> Thank you for the opportunity to clarify.


Note I said “most intelligent people”.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Evons hubby said:


> Have to wonder why some dogs don’t like being at home? Could it be lack of attention?


I don't wonder at all. She's a dog, her job is to guard the goats, not be my buddy. She has a insulated dog house, premium dog food, and vet care when she needs it. I talk to her and pat her on the head every time I walk by. Most dogs her size live to be eight or nine years old, she is twelve this year.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I’m going to call BS on your _“rabbits would stay in an area smaller than a rabbit cage if their needs are met” _statement, though. That’s just, well, BS. Take the world’s best cared-for meat rabbit, open its door and walk away for an hour. Hell, just pay attention to the wild rabbits on your own property. They’ll move from one side my orchard to the other just for the exact same grass under a different tree.


You are quite wrong once again. I have left many cages open. I've gone back to cages with ten five pound plus weanlings crowded inside 24 hours later and the whole lot is still working the hay feeder and the few last pellets of rabbit feed. But yeah, sometimes in the same circumstances they hop out, and maybe back in, or I have to grab them as they moved an entire ten feet away from their cage. Had one that would hop in and out while you were cleaning and thawing waterers. Until you dumped feed, then it was in.

You are forgetting several important things with your errant observations. Wild rabbits are wild rabbits. Domestic rabbits are domesticated. They have been genetically modified by countless breeders going back to the Romans. Large warrens and pillow mounds were maintained before the time of cage wire. You built only a small wooden cage, for the ferrets and hawks you used to harvest the rabbits. You kept the greyhound on a rope, muzzled except at feeding time, so it didn't chew it's rope. But even absent cages, genetic selection was happening, favoring rabbits that could tolerate an unnaturally high stocking density. Once cage wire became a thing, the ferrets and hawks were turned loose, and greyhounds were off to the track. Rabbits were even more intensively selected towards being content to set in a little bitty cage, and pump out litter after litter of really stupid fat babies. So no, they are not at all like your wild rabbits, they are a completely different species with maybe a thousand years of selection towards being content to stay in a tiny cage.

Much of "domestication" is actually just selecting mentally deficient individuals to pass on their traits. That would explain many of the dogs that people see as so helpless that they need protection from the elements. If you identify with a dog breed that has been purposely selected to be mentally deficient, it is easy to view all dogs as being mentally deficient, and incapable of self care and survival. Or if we identify wild animal behaviors, we make similar erroneous assumptions about the confinement tolerances, survival abilities of genetically distinct stocks that have no such abilities. Chickens are a good study. The cornish rock broiler is bred to be too stupid to dislike being crammed into a barn with a few million of it's buddies for a few short weeks of gorging until it is time to die. Cornish rock chickens cannot be raised in a feral system of chicken rearing. Likewise, breeds suited to a feral system cannot be crammed into barns by the millions and expected to survive for the five months it would take them to reach butcher size. One is an improved breed, one is a prototypical wild type stock. The same reason feedlot operators don't want longhorns. 

An eastern cottontail will run back and forth in a cage until it dies. A New Zealand will gladly trade freedom for candy. A Spanish Fighting bull will slither through the weeds to get close enough to charge and kill you for being a predator trespassing in it's territory. A Black Baldy will come up to see if you have corn in your bucket. A Holstein bull, who comes from a breed where the females have been bred to have exaggerated maternal traits but have been selected for tractability, will tractably follow you around like a puppy until his exaggerated maternal traits kick in and he kills you in a hormone induced rage. Thousands of years of genetic manipulation make big differences in tolerances, space requirements, personalities, and so on. We see it with cattle, dogs, chickens, and just about everything that has been domesticated. Profitable and productive animals are seldom abused animals, despite what the animal rights propagandists have brainwashed you into believing.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Even when given the opportunity to roam free in their little pen, my rabbits will go back into the shed and their cages. When I could bend over we kept cages near the floor so the rabbits could go to bed when they got tired of playing in the yard.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Wolves and coyotes are part of the natural ecosystem.


I agree, wolves and coyotes are part of the natural ecosystem. And I shoot them on sight. One might argue that they are only doing what comes naturally when they kill livestock to feed themselves and their babies. I would argue that I am doing what comes naturally to me when I shoot them to protect my livestock and their babies.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> 100%.
> 
> Chaining a dog is a crime against nature. It doesn’t matter if it’s against man’s law in your location or what you believe about Creation, dog chainers will have to account for that the day after their last day.


On















I got these two off their 24/7 life on collars and chains last July.















I left the collars on the ground
She's by my foot
He's the ham on my lap
They adapted well


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Muleskinner, I do understand. I have shot my share of predators. I don’t have livestock to defend at the moment, so I just let the coyotes, etc., seranade the neighborhood.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Muleskinner, I do understand. I have shot my share of predators. I don’t have livestock to defend at the moment, so I just let the coyotes, etc., seranade the neighborhood.


If we didn't have the goats I would leave them alone as well. On the other hand I am not putting that big of a dent in the population. I got one coyote last year, and one so far this year. I hear them every night, but seldom see them.


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

Elevenpoint said:


> On
> View attachment 95482
> View attachment 95482
> 
> ...


That looks like the same exact dog...


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Yep, I think he has a posting problem. He will probably fix it later


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## Justaffagirl (Jan 28, 2021)

whiterock said:


> Yep, I think he has a posting problem. He will probably fix it later


Yeah that’s what I figured


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It seems that we learned that our own biases and perspectives don't always align with individual situations.


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