# Perkins 6cyl in a Pickup?



## Hagler's Farm (Jan 9, 2012)

I'm looking to convert my 81 Chevy Pickup to a diesel, saw an ad for a perkins diesel set up for a chevy pickup and wondering if anyone had ever heard of this before and how well or not it works.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Hagler's Farm said:


> I'm looking to convert my 81 Chevy Pickup to a diesel, saw an ad for a perkins diesel set up for a chevy pickup and wondering if anyone had ever heard of this before and how well or not it works.


It's been done lots of times. I remember reading about the conversions years ago. Do some research on top RPM for the Perkins, your rear end ratio, added weight on the front end, etc. to see if it's a good match. The Perkins is a great engine. If you're running an automatic without complete mechanical control you'll need a vacuum pump. Diesels don't do vacuum.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

We even had a guy here who put a Deutz 6 cylinder in a old dodge. It really worked well


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

At one time you could buy an adapter to mate the Deutz to a 727. The Deutz was air cooled so you could eliminate the radiator.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Unless your diesel engine is turbocharged or grossly oversized for the application, forget the automagic tranny. Non-turbo diesels accelerate like a slug in a salt mine. Dont believe me, go ask somebody that owned a diesel Oldsmobile back in the 70s/80s or a non-turbo diesel Volvo with an automagic.... Once you got them up to speed they would tend to hold that speed, but acceleration was a slow painful process.

The early diesel pickups like the Fords with the IHC 6.9L engine were using a greatly oversized diesel designed for a heavier medium duty truck so werent so sluggish. But even then they were no dragstrip champ and you really wanted the 4spd manual tranny. Ford upped the displacement and turbo'd it with the 7.3L version for a reason. Hasnt been a non-turbo diesel offered since by any truck manufacturer.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

What HermitJohn said. If you want the zip along with the power look for a 12 valve Cummins. Those are easily modified for higher RPMs and they still survive and thrive. 

Look for an older Kenworth school bus for a possible donor. Most folks hot for a used Cummins for a transplant don't think about used school buses.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

................Best engine for conversion is a Cummins 4 BTV , a 4 cylinder version of the 5.9 inline 6 cylinder ! The 4 BTV has been mated to an Allison auto and utilized in these square bread delivery type trucks . The 6 cylinder is utilized in the same configuration as well . The 4 BTV is easily capable of generating 600 ft. pounds of torque and mounted correctly in a 1 ton pickup would pull just about any load that you could hook too it . The 6 cylinder is capable of much more . , fordy


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

yep, that is what he did it was turbo-charges and dropped in very nice, 4 wheel drive and power galore.


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## taylorlambert (Jul 4, 2010)

The comparison between the 5.9 12 Valve Cummins and the 6.9 IHC is a good one. I have an 89 Ford 350 dump with a 6.9 In direct injected motor. and a 4 speed. My company truck is a 94 Dodge with a 5.9 Cummins 12 Valve and a 5 speed. Its got an 800 pound welder, 700 pound compressor and a 30 gallon serivice tank and all my tools on board. The Ford has a light dump bed.

When I have my lightest 16 foot trailer, and my small skid steer and one bucket on it I have to start ti FOrd off in first gear and top out at 55 or 60. THeDodge will start out on a hill with the same trailer in second and fly. My top speed is about 76 on the 4 lane as a test.


In the mid 90's we had a JohnDeere logging & construction dealer about a mile down the road. I used to walk down there as a teen and later drive to see the mechanics work on the equipment. I also used to go see our scraper get worked on there to. THere was a Mechanic named Mike Hayes in the back that took a 2wd 80s Suburban and installed a 4 cylinder Turbo diesel out of a smallish JD skidder. It worked great but didnt have a stall converter at first and it was eating transmissions. He had the transmission built up and it worked great other than the occasional twisted out drive line. 

It got pretty good mileage but noone cared as fuel was 97 cents a gallon. I have a Ford motor in a sweeper tractor but its alot bigger than a 3/4 ton front end will take. Im looking as a small Detroit for project but want to get it on my circle mill set up.


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## Qhorseman (Jul 9, 2010)

I put a 4bta cummins in my F150 in front of a reprogrammed AOD. Changed the R&P to 3.08, I am seeing 31MPG in my truck, I really doubt I am getting 600 lb.ft. of torque. The allison will not fit in most trans tunnels.


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## citxmech (Dec 26, 2011)

Stock torque figures for the 1st gen 12v 5.9 is in the 400ft/lb range - for the 3.9 4BT it's in the 260s IIRC. If you boost power - you'll lose mpg/longevity. Cummins swaps can be expensive and time consuming finding all the right bits (I'm working on one right now) but the route is pretty established. Personally, I would pick power or mpg and go with the 3.9 or 5.9 based upon that and put in a stock engine first, get it running right - and worry about hot-rodding after you use it for a bit. These things make their power off-idle, so it's way more usable power than a gasser. My stock 5.9 12v will really stress the frame if you get on it hard in 1st (I start in 2nd) - If it were modified much I'm sure I'd have to start boxing the frame to keep from tearing stuff up. Another tip is to spend some time figuring your gearing with a gear calculator so you don't end up over-revving your engine needlessly. 1700-1800rpm on the highway is perfect.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

citxmech said:


> Stock torque figures for the 1st gen 12v 5.9 is in the 400ft/lb range - for the 3.9 4BT it's in the 260s IIRC. If you boost power - you'll lose mpg/longevity. Cummins swaps can be expensive and time consuming finding all the right bits (I'm working on one right now) but the route is pretty established. Personally, I would pick power or mpg and go with the 3.9 or 5.9 based upon that and put in a stock engine first, get it running right - and worry about hot-rodding after you use it for a bit. These things make their power off-idle, so it's way more usable power than a gasser. My stock 5.9 12v will really stress the frame if you get on it hard in 1st (I start in 2nd) - If it were modified much I'm sure I'd have to start boxing the frame to keep from tearing stuff up. Another tip is to spend some time figuring your gearing with a gear calculator so you don't end up over-revving your engine needlessly. 1700-1800rpm on the highway is perfect.


I've been thinking about putting a 12 valve in an F600. The problem is the truck has 7 something ring and pinion gear ratios. I've read that it's not a big deal to up the top RPM on the Cummins. I wonder if one of the Fuller overdrive six speeds will bolt up to the Cummins to drop the RPM.


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## Qhorseman (Jul 9, 2010)

citxmech said:


> Stock torque figures for the 1st gen 12v 5.9 is in the 400ft/lb range - for the 3.9 4BT it's in the 260s IIRC. If you boost power - you'll lose mpg/longevity. Cummins swaps can be expensive and time consuming finding all the right bits (I'm working on one right now) but the route is pretty established. Personally, I would pick power or mpg and go with the 3.9 or 5.9 based upon that and put in a stock engine first, get it running right - and worry about hot-rodding after you use it for a bit. These things make their power off-idle, so it's way more usable power than a gasser. My stock 5.9 12v will really stress the frame if you get on it hard in 1st (I start in 2nd) - If it were modified much I'm sure I'd have to start boxing the frame to keep from tearing stuff up. Another tip is to spend some time figuring your gearing with a gear calculator so you don't end up over-revving your engine needlessly. 1700-1800rpm on the highway is perfect.


www.fordcummins.com has all the bits, pieces and adapters you need to do a clean swap with the 5.9 and 3.9. The 3.9 was a replacement engine for the 300-6 in alot of the frito trucks. There are adapter mounts available right from ford to drop in the 3.9 in place of the 300-6. ford cummins and PATC in CA has just about every trans adapter combination you could dream of. 

My F150 is my run around the county truck, I was looking for mileage over power.


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## citxmech (Dec 26, 2011)

Darren said:


> I've been thinking about putting a 12 valve in an F600. The problem is the truck has 7 something ring and pinion gear ratios. I've read that it's not a big deal to up the top RPM on the Cummins. I wonder if one of the Fuller overdrive six speeds will bolt up to the Cummins to drop the RPM.


It's not a big deal - just need to change the governor spring. Only downside is that your mpg drops way off as you move up the rpm band. The other thing with O/D trannies is that the O/D gear is typically weaker than the direct-drive 4th. Lots of folks have problems with the 5spds and the 5.9s. A sweet compromise is setting up with the right tires and gears for towing in direct 4th, and cruising in 5th. On my Dodge I can swing that with 36" tires and 4.10s with the stock Getrag 5 spd. - works out to around 2100rpm in 4th @ 55 and 1800rpm at 60 I think.

FWIW - a Ford swap with a T-19 is cheaper than a Chevy manual because there are more 4spd adapters out there second hand. Autos are really strained behind a 5.9 because the torque comes on before the pump can produce enough pressure to really seat the clutches - so they tend to fry - that's why you never see Th400 trannies behind 5.9s even though they do OK behind 3.9s. 

You can get all the aftermarket adapters you want for just about anything - but the stuff is $$$. 4BTswaps has more info that anyone could digest on this stuff btw. Check it out.


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## Qhorseman (Jul 9, 2010)

Darren said:


> I've been thinking about putting a 12 valve in an F600. The problem is the truck has 7 something ring and pinion gear ratios. I've read that it's not a big deal to up the top RPM on the Cummins. I wonder if one of the Fuller overdrive six speeds will bolt up to the Cummins to drop the RPM.


That should not be to hard a swap, I think the 5.9 was an option in Fords medium duty trucks, so engine mounts and trannys should be available. I have seen 600/700 dump trucks with the 5.9 in them stock from ford.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

.................First gear on the T18......IS NOT......synchronized , The T19 IS Synchronized !!! SM 465 is also a very H.Duty 4 speed that would work well behind a Cummins . , fordy


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## Huntinfamily (Aug 14, 2010)

HermitJohn said:


> Unless your diesel engine is turbocharged or grossly oversized for the application, forget the automagic tranny. Non-turbo diesels accelerate like a slug in a salt mine. Dont believe me, go ask somebody that owned a diesel Oldsmobile back in the 70s/80s or a non-turbo diesel Volvo with an automagic.... Once you got them up to speed they would tend to hold that speed, but acceleration was a slow painful process.


I have an 82 GMC wth the 6.2 in it. Accelerating like a slug in a saltmine is a perfect example of its get up and go


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

I really don't want to change the ring and pinions in the Rockwells. I know the Fuller 6 speed with the overdrive will handle the GVW. I don't know and have never been able to find out if the Fuller is an easy bolt on to a 12 valve.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

my cousin dropped a perkins into an old 77 Ford, his dad dropped one into a mid 70's international....not much room left but they fit..... loaded or empty they got around 23mpg which was an upgrade from the 8-10 they were getting.....

William
Idaho


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## Wallywall106 (Sep 24, 2020)

Darren said:


> It's been done lots of times. I remember reading about the conversions years ago. Do some research on top RPM for the Perkins, your rear end ratio, added weight on the front end, etc. to see if it's a good match. The Perkins is a great engine. If you're running an automatic without complete mechanical control you'll need a vacuum pump. Diesels don't do vacuum.


I'm looking at buying a ford 1977 f250 with a t6354 I'm trying to figure out what tanky is in it it has an odd 5rdl shift patern but looks like an nv4500 any ideas


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Hagler's Farm said:


> I'm looking to convert my 81 Chevy Pickup to a diesel, saw an ad for a perkins diesel set up for a chevy pickup and wondering if anyone had ever heard of this before and how well or not it works.


Depends on what your goals are. If you want the ideal diesel conversion at any cost in both money and time, go with Perkins, Cummins, or whatever. If you want a relatively easy, cheap conversion that works well, swap in a GM 6.2 diesel. It's a good engine that gets very good fuel economy, and it'll be by far the easiest & cheapest swap into a Chevy. Or, save yourself the time and money, and find one that's already in a decent pickup.



HermitJohn said:


> Unless your diesel engine is turbocharged or grossly oversized for the application, forget the automagic tranny. Non-turbo diesels accelerate like a slug in a salt mine. Dont believe me, go ask somebody that owned a diesel Oldsmobile back in the 70s/80s or a non-turbo diesel Volvo with an automagic.... Once you got them up to speed they would tend to hold that speed, but acceleration was a slow painful process.


I have an '85 F250 with the 6.9, an '83 Suburban with the 6.2, and an '81 Cadillac with the Olds 350 diesel. All have automatics and no turbo. None are going to win any drag races, but they all do OK if you don't expect a hot rod. It's a tradeoff that works for me for the high reliability, low maintenance, low cost, and high fuel mileage.



> Hasnt been a non-turbo diesel offered since by any truck manufacturer.


Diesels get better fuel economy with a turbo because of the increased oxygen available for better combustion. Unless you really need the extra power, that's the best reason to turbo a diesel.


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