# Solar Thermosiphon System â Live Broadcast



## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

Today you can see here: http://beebehavior.com/live_camera_dorgem.php
live broadcast of my Solar Thermosiphon System previously described here: http://www.beebehavior.com/solar_collector.php

Boris Romanov


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## maverickxxx (Jan 25, 2011)

That's pretty cool how do u convert the linear amount of ft of baseboard in the box for amount u need to heat in the house.


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

Glad to see you in solar now. Why the change of heart? Anyway what is your inlet and out water temps? Was your taco pump cirulating when the temp inside your collector was 275* ?


Ky-Jeeper


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

maverickxxx said:


> ... how do u convert the linear amount of ft of baseboard in the box for amount u need to heat in the house.


Firstly, you have to determine the seasonal(daily) energy consumption for your house: use gas or oil meter to determine amount of fuel, then convert this data into BTUs. 
My solar collectors contain eighth 68"-long (Â¾&#8221; diameter) baseboard heating elements or six 68&#8217;"-long ( 1&#8221; diameter ) copper pipes.
Roughly, each solar collector can produce about 15,000 BTU every sunny day.

I would recommend you to obtain your own data for your specific climate.

Boris

Useful link: &#8220;What&#8217;s your score?&#8221; www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=HOME_ENERGY_YARDSTICK.showGetStarted


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

Ky-Jeeper said:


> ... Anyway what is your inlet and out water temps? Was your taco pump cirulating when the temp inside your collector was 275* ?
> Ky-Jeeper


I cannot see any reason to pump very hot fluid from a solar collector. Normally, you have to start pumping when fluid temperature is much lower.

I posted this picture to show how easy it is to collect solar energy even in a cold climate.










Notes (just in case): 
- the Max.Water Temp. of my Taco cartridge circulators: 240 ÂºF 116 ÂºC
- broadcasted Thermosiphon system does not contain any circulator/pump.

Boris


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

I was asking about the system with the circulation pump. What is your peak temps on your inlet and outlet?


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

Ky-Jeeper said:


> I ... What is your peak temps on your inlet and outlet?


I control the only temperature FROM my Solar Collector.
And below I posted for you my new photo: Max. Temp.In - 100ÂºF (February 09, 2012 11:45 a.m.)










Boris


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

I was curious what results you was getting from the circulating pump. 

Thermosiphoning for winter use seems to me a severe heat loss at the collector at 275*. With a double pane glass the R-value is around 2.0 maybe a little higher. You basically are radiating back into the atmosphere. You could be putting that same heat into thermostorage tank in your basement with a pump. Then the lost from a tank could radiat back into the basement. An infrared image of your solar thermosiphoning collector would tell you more and compare it to a circuilating collector. What do you think?



Ky-Jeeper


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

If in fact that 275 temp is any where near accurate, what are you doing with all the steam . . . . . .??

some thing isn't right there.................


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

Glycol has a higher boiling point than water. What ever the water to glycol mix ratio is and the psi. Very much like a vehicle.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Well I do know that in conventional closed loop or drain back systems that 275 temps will break down Glycoll in a big fat hurry..............


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

Jim-mi said:


> If in fact that 275 temp is any where near accurate, what are you doing with all the steam . . . . . .??
> 
> some thing isn't right there.................












I prefer Cryo-Tek -100 Anti-Freeze by Hercules Co.
5 Gallon, - $98

70% virgin propylene glycol with triple protection inhibitor Package, Pre-Mixed With Water, In A Ready To Use Formulation, Undiluted.

Provides:
- freeze protection down to -70ÂºF/ -57ÂºC,
- pumpable down to -80ÂºF/ -62ÂºC, 
- burst protection down to -100ÂºF/ -73ÂºC.

5-6% Heat transfer efficiency bonus! 
SPECIFIC USES: Use any cryotek AntiFreeze in hydronic closed loop heating and cooling systems, solar heating systems, and general plumbing systems that require freeze protection.

*Cryotek Products are not recommended: *
1. For use in systems containing galvanized components. 
2. *For open solar systems and systems where operating stagnation temperatures are regularly over 300ÂºF / 150ÂºC.*
3. For systems with concentrating solar collectors or evacuated tube solar collectors. 
4. In systems containing aluminum and operating temperatures over 160ÂºF / 71ÂºC. (Please check with equipment manufacturer of system to determine compatibility with this product)...

The collector reached this temperature (275F) during the Test mode.
And as I stated previously: &#8220;I cannot see any reason to pump very hot fluid from a solar collector. Normally, you have to start pumping when fluid temperature is much lower.&#8221;

I hope, I will answer to all other questions soon. I have to find some interesting records.

Boris


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

He lists that 275 reading as "Temp inside of my solar collector" and by looking at the writing on the dial I'd say he is using a meat thermomiter to measure the air temp in the panel. Why else would it need a reading of "Broil".

That is kind of a worthless and a measurement that should only be used in figuring the flow rate through the collector. My comparing that with the output and input water temperature one can adjust the flow rate for optimum effecincy. By itself worthless and an easily mulipulated number. Stopping flow or cutting it way back would cause that reading to be high. Usually it should only be 20 to 30 degrees above the output temp.

WWW


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

wy_white_wolf said:


> He lists that 275 reading as "Temp inside of my solar collector" and by looking at the writing on the dial I'd say he is using a meat thermomiter to measure the air temp in the panel. Why else would it need a reading of "Broil".
> 
> That is kind of a worthless and a measurement that should only be used in figuring the flow rate through the collector. My comparing that with the output and input water temperature one can adjust the flow rate for optimum effecincy. By itself worthless and an easily mulipulated number. Stopping flow or cutting it way back would cause that reading to be high. Usually it should only be 20 to 30 degrees above the output temp.
> 
> WWW


Your statements are completely useless, because in my post #5 I stated: &#8220;I posted this picture to show how easy it is to collect solar energy even in a cold climate.&#8221;

The title of this tread is &#8220;Solar Thermosiphon System &#8211; Live Broadcast&#8221;
I do not care about Temp. In or Temp. Out and so on. 
The final &#8220;product&#8221; &#8211; the temperature above my baseboard &#8211; is the only real criteria to judge!!!

The data posted here: http://beebehavior.com/live_camera_dorgem.php
is the best answer for many questions...
I like my system very much..

Boris


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Thanks WW . . . . thats like a meat thermo. . . . . . 
.deceiving unless you look close enough . . . .good catch . . . . .

A solar cooker for a baking bread temp is a FAR cry from heating a liquid to that temp

I believe that is in the temp range of super heated . .STEAM. . . . . . . . . . very hard to handle.....

I have read enough about stagnation problems in closed loop systems . . . . .
And all of them break down the propylene glycol re-guardless of the brand......


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

After going your data I some how missed, I see where your at on your project.


Good work,
Ky-Jeeper.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Thanks for the post Boris!! I'm curious why you don't use a circ pump and start harvesting heat long before it gets too hot for the pump? Then you could store it in a tank and manage your delta T at the rads or air handlers. You can also determine very accurately your heating needs with a standard heat loss calculator. I use a slantfin program to get an accurate idea what each room needs and a total.


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

Ky-Jeeper said:


> ...
> Thermosiphoning for winter use seems to me a severe heat loss at the collector at 275*. With a double pane glass the R-value is around 2.0 maybe a little higher. You basically are radiating back into the atmosphere. You could be putting that same heat into thermostorage tank in your basement with a pump. Then the lost from a tank could radiat back into the basement. An infrared image of your solar thermosiphoning collector would tell you more and compare it to a circuilating collector. What do you think?
> Ky-Jeeper


I tested heat losses of my solar collectors with Craftsman infrared thermometer many times. The heat losses are not so big as you think. because the area, surrounding my solar collector, is warm TOO!

Boris

*Useful info: *
- a sliding door section with incorporating low E class can decrease energy loss through double glass by up to 50%.
- âHeat Mirror is a thin film that when suspended between two sheets of glass, can make a 1" thick window just as insulating as the 6" wall around it
â¦ Heat Mirror is so revolutionary that in November 1999 it was voted as one of the "Top 100 Inventions of the Millennium" by Popular Science magazine. Popular Science called Heat Mirror film "one of the more dramatic advances" of the millennium. Already it is credited with saving tens of millions of barrels of oil since its commercial release in 1980.â 
http://www.weathermaster-window.com/glass.html


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

Ross said:


> Thanks for the post Boris!! I'm curious why you don't use a circ pump and start harvesting heat long before it gets too hot for the pump? Then you could store it in a tank and manage your delta T at the rads or air handlers. You can also determine very accurately your heating needs with a standard heat loss calculator. I use a slantfin program to get an accurate idea what each room needs and a total.


Ky-Jeeper and Ross,

I think my statement posted a long time ago is my answers to your question about tank: &#8220;Now I am trying to find the best heating alternatives for my house based on modern resources. Currently, evacuated tube solar collectors offer the most energy efficient way. However, typical systems that are limited to 300-500 gallon tanks, do not store enough hot water even for small house when the weather is very cold and cloudy for a long period of time (3-5 consecutive days). Storage tanks of bigger size are therefore needed.&#8221;
From: http://www.beebehavior.com/energy_efficient_house.php

But big tanks are expansive. For example, the SunMaxx 2000 Gallon
Solar Hot Water Storage Tank - $3008
http://www.siliconsolar.com/non-pressurized-storage-tanks.html

And who can install such a big tank for an existing home?&#8230; 

Ross, as you can see my first system contains Circulator/Pump.









Boris


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## sevenmmm (Mar 1, 2011)

The base board heater needs hot temps to make it worthy of use. A very expensive proposition using solar heat. However, the evacuated tube is capable. 

There are easier less expensive ways, but good luck anyway.


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

Personally I can't think of anything better to to release heat with other than a radiant floor super insulated on the back side. He uses no electricity on the thermosiphion system. I bought two 8" base board heaters for a very similar system.


sevenmmm said:


> The base board heater needs hot temps to make it worthy of use. A very expensive proposition using solar heat. However, the evacuated tube is capable.
> 
> There are easier less expensive ways, but good luck anyway.


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