# LGD help



## mrsnav98 (Sep 1, 2011)

Hello all.

I am looking for some advice for our situation. We live on 10 acres, but only 1/2 mile from a "town" of about 40 people. We have chickens, ducks, cows, goats, 2 house dogs, and 1 "farm" dog. Our "problem" is with our farm dog.

He is a German Shepherd, Golden retriever mix, we think. He is an excellent dog. The first 9-12 months we had him, we NEVER chained him, other than the very first night we brought him home. He only barks at coyotes and has never been aggressive toward anyone or anything. The only place he strayed to was the river across the road during 100 plus days.

Our trouble started when our neighbor's dogs came down one day and led our dog, Hank, back to town with them. Hank chased this neighbor's cat up a tree and she called the sheriff. Now Hank likes to go to town, which you can see from our place, to visit his dog friends.

Any time this one particular neighbor sees him, she flips out. All of our other neighbors love him. However, this one neighbor that hates Hank has 2 large hunting dogs that ALWAYS roam town, and our property, and get into everybody's trash and kill chickens. She then calls us last night to inform us that HER dogs have two of our missing chickens, we're stilling missing two more.

She's insisting that her dogs didn't kill our chickens; "owls" did. I guess those owls also delivered our chickens to her dogs, 1/2 mile away as well. But our dog is the "problem."

Hank has never killed anything, or even barked at anything that's not a coyote. Unfortunately, he has been on a chain almost 24/7 for a year now. He does great with our children and livestock. I agree that a dog should stay on his own property, so we are now re-homing him, though we don't want to.

We DID train him. In fact we went through 2 shock collars. He lost one in the river and the other just wore out. He's a good dog, but he wants to go to town when he hears the other dogs barking now. He doesn't always go to town when we occasionally let him loose and he will come back on his own. How do you train a dog to not be a dog? And a life on a chain is no life for a dog.

So my question is, can we even have LGD here, being so close to town? And will all of our training with a new dog be tossed out the window, like it was with Hank, when the darn neighbor dogs come over again? Do we need to look at a certain breed?

We can't even leave Hank loose at night to guard our livestock, which is how the neighbor's dogs got our chickens. So now we can't even farm the way we want to; no more free range chickens. DH is getting a game camera tonight, but other than "evidence" those cameras aren't going to do us much good, like a LGD.

And if we "need" really good fencing for a LGD, what's the point?! If we already have good fencing for a LGD, then why would we even need a LGD? We have good fencing for the livestock. Or do we need to spend a fortune outfitting our entire property with game cameras? DH is getting really tired of just throwing money at every little problem; that can't be the answer to everything.

Sorry to be so long-winded, we're just very frustrated right now. We moved to the farm to farm organic and free range, and now we can't do it because of the neighbors.


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

What you need is really good fencing for your chickens. Get some electric netting and give the chickens a yard. If you want to rotate them, you can rotate with the el netting. This is how I moved my sheep around my house and pond. I also used the el netting in the pasture to create paddocks. You can do the same with chickens. You need the 4&#8217; poultry netting. At night you can still put them in a shelter. You just open the netting, walk to the shelter (I&#8217;m assuming it is immobile) and feed them their grain. They naturally go home to roost and to lay their eggs, you just need to encourage them to establish a habit.

If these dogs come to your home, put them in your vehicle and take them to the animal shelter, if you have one. Inconveniencing people makes them pay attention. Take care of the neighbor&#8217;s dog problem before getting another dog or you&#8217;ll have another one going to town.


----------



## mrsnav98 (Sep 1, 2011)

We've had our chickens free ranging for 3 years now with no problems until lately, but we apparently can't do that anymore. We will be fencing them in this spring. Right now, with the cold wind and snow, they don't go any further than just in front of and behind the coop, which they do get locked into every night, all year round.

The neighbor's dog that taught ours to wander has been replaced by this new one that is killing our birds now. He has managed to sneak into our back tree line to get our chickens, before they are locked away at night. Because he comes in the back way, he doesn't set off our alarm in the front of the property and we can't see him. He's very sneaky.

We've tried to approach him, as well as the other 2 that belong to the same neighbor, but they run when you get within 10 yards. They do get close enough, when OFF of our property, to bite our kids though. When we confronted the neighbor about it, she said that our kids provoked her dog. No. My girls were simply walking down the road to visit our other neighbor. Maybe walking, pre-teen girls are threatening?

I was actually watching my girls walk down the road when the dog attacked. They did NOTHING to provoke the dog. All 3 dogs will advance and bite at anybody walking by; they've even come at me. The neighbor refuses to believe it though. HER dogs ARE the problem. Not us or our dogs.

We are trying everything in our power to correct this "situation." We are re-homing OUR dog, who has done NOTHING wrong. We are going to fence in our chickens, and dash our dreams of free range. And we've said nothing rude to this neighbor, nor called the sheriff when her dogs are over here. In fact, we've invited them over for BBQs in hopes of befriending them; all to no avail.

Apparently our only 2 solutions are to move, or not have free range animals and FENCE, FENCE, FENCE, including our driveway:facepalm:

I'm not sure how to completely fence in 10 acres, including the driveway, that would keep all manner of predators, including dogs that dig and jump, out.


----------



## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

File complaints with the Sheriff...Get it on record. More than 1 complaint if necessary...10 yards is close enough for a 12 ga. shotgun #4 shot, then either shoot shovel and shut up, find a brush pile that needs burning or drop the body off an their door step, depending on your attitude at the time. Attacking your children or livestock (yes chickens are livestock) is not allowed.

Personally, I'd make it a point to walk down the road (while carrying a concealed weapon) kinda like trolling for fish. But that's just me.


----------



## mrsnav98 (Sep 1, 2011)

Thanks, Batt.

That's about the same advice that my cousin just gave me. We've got the guns and the bird shot, we just never have the gun in hand when the sobs are here. Apparently we need to just hip or sling carry at all times; which isn't always possible.

I think I will start filing complaints with the sheriff. Funny thing is, they know our neighbor all too well. She has a "problem with pills" according to her husband, and has been "sent away" a couple of times. You would think that would make her less likely to call the sheriff:shrug:

I'm starting to wonder if we should just keep our dog and try to re-train him? He is only 3 years old. Hopefully not too old to relearn his old tricks.


----------



## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

Not bird shot. That would just injure him or make him meaner. At least #4 shot or bigger (the smaller the number, the bigger the shot) ...No half measures, you want him dead.


----------



## gundog10 (Dec 9, 2014)

been there, Go to the store and buy two pounds of the cheep ham bugger and a large box of DE-CON. mix well, roll into 2" balls. Drop a few by the tree line and a few by the chicken coop. Take a stroll each day and check your bate. re-bait as needed. Then ask the neighbor if she would like to come over for a ham bugger


----------



## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I guess that to control Hank and keep the chickens safe, for now, fence off a section that will confine them all, then separate another section for Hank. Continue fencing as able until your property is done. We used no climb fencing in every area our animals could go out, and our entire ranch is now fenced with it. We let our dogs out all day, they go everywhere but off the ranch. If you don't want to re-home Hank, maybe you could contain him inside a fence for the future?


----------



## Jreed (Dec 24, 2014)

Why not purchase a wireless containment system, it uses a radio transmitter base and a collar on the dog. You can use multiple bases to establish larger perimeters. This is easy to train, gets the dog off the chain and you can give him some more freedom after dark. I have not researched them but this is the first one I googled. 

http://www.radiofence.com/petsafe-s...=PIF00-12917&gclid=CMGJv4XbhcMCFROTfgodfJ0AOA


----------



## Jreed (Dec 24, 2014)

gundog10 said:


> been there, Go to the store and buy two pounds of the cheep ham bugger and a large box of DE-CON. mix well, roll into 2" balls. Drop a few by the tree line and a few by the chicken coop. Take a stroll each day and check your bate. re-bait as needed. Then ask the neighbor if she would like to come over for a ham bugger


 If you had seen anything poisoned close hand, bleeding from the eyes and ****ting and seizured for 3 to 5 days you would not waste your time with sick remarks like that. Shoot the dog if that is solution there is no need for anything to suffer. Poison is not clean or easy and kills heaps of wild life beyond the intended target. Poisoned critters suffer horribly, and 3 children alone died in the USA from accident rat poison consumption. Why waste money on poison and hamburger when a bullet is $??


----------



## mrsnav98 (Sep 1, 2011)

The irony of this situation is this: 2 years ago I went to buy a wireless dog containment system, not a dog. The guy selling it wanted $275 for the system and Hank. I told him I didn't need the dog. He said he would drop the price to $200 if I took Hank. After all, Hank was "neutered, micro-chipped, and had some 'professional' training". After much arm twisting from the guy, my kids, and surprisingly my DH, who isn't much of an animal person, I agreed to take Hank.

The stupid containment system has NEVER worked!:hair We even bought new batteries and talked directly to the mfg; apparently metal is a big interference. This is an old farm with old metal buildings and our back doors are steel! Hank is a great dog, though; not an aggressive bone in his body. He's been in the chicken coop and goat pen, while following us during chore time, and has never harmed either. He even shares his bed and water with both chickens and cats.

We're going to keep him and re-train him. Why should we punish him by sending him away when he hasn't done anything wrong? So I guess we do need to throw more money at the problem:facepalm: We've looked into a buried wire system. We had one for our house dog when we lived in town; worked great. Problem is, the "basic" unit will only let him hug our house. To give him room to run, and keep an eye on things, we are looking at $5000 for a professional system, not something from Pet Co. That's a lot of money on a dog we never intended to get, not to mention it could desperately be used elsewhere. We're just worried that the more wire we add to it, the less effective it will become. Hank is at least 75lbs and has lots of thick hair. 

The giant, sucking, money pit never ends:doh: 

And no, I won't use poison on anything, which is why we have barn cats even though DH HATES cats. We have too many children and animals that could come into contact with it. And I don't want anything to suffer, not even the neighbor's awful dogs.

Thanks for the info everyone.


----------



## Jreed (Dec 24, 2014)

The wire does not need to be buried and can be cheaper electric wire, I know a friend who uses one of those as well on 20 acres to keep a dog in and it didn't cost 5k, do some research


----------



## kalmara (Aug 21, 2011)

the wire fence is NOT going to stop stray dogs coming onto your property.

Also Hank may think (like many other dogs !) that a quick sharp jolt from his collar is worth it if it means he can escape to go to town !!!!

Put your $'s into fencing


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I wouldn&#8217;t normally recommend this, but loose dogs that are threatening people on the road combined with owners who don&#8217;t care sounds like an SSS situation.


----------



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Maura! Is that really you? ROFL

I totally agree with Maura in that you have a right to protect your own farm and farm animals! A few nights sitting on top of your chicken house with a gun should take care of the situation!


----------



## krische1012 (May 3, 2009)

I would not waste my money on a wireless system and instead invest in fencing to keep Hank in and the other dogs out. No reason you can't have free range chickens with good fence!


----------



## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

mrsnav98 said:


> We've had our chickens free ranging for 3 years now with no problems until lately, but we apparently can't do that anymore. We will be fencing them in this spring. Right now, with the cold wind and snow, they don't go any further than just in front of and behind the coop, which they do get locked into every night, all year round.
> 
> The neighbor's dog that taught ours to wander has been replaced by this new one that is killing our birds now. He has managed to sneak into our back tree line to get our chickens, before they are locked away at night. Because he comes in the back way, he doesn't set off our alarm in the front of the property and we can't see him. He's very sneaky.
> 
> ...


You already know the solution...fence. What kind for 10 acres? Field fence with hot wire run along the top and along the bottom. Will keep out most dogs except for the very determined. Yes you can fence 10 acres, plenty here have done so, including gates at the end of the driveway. By the way any dog that came at me or my children would be a dead dog. Problem solved. As for your dog going to town.....simple solution...fence your property. You don't know what your dog does in town, just like your neighbor has no idea what their dog does at your place.


----------



## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

First off, I agree that if the neighbors dogs are coming over to kill your birds, you need to SSS.
That being said, you absolutely need a good fence to keep your dog home as well. It goes both ways.
You can certainly free range birds on a fenced in 10 acres, no reason you can't at all. 
Is it going to cost, you betcha! But you can always do it in sections, as time and money allow. 
We have just under 30 acres, and are fencing with woven wire, with hot wires top and bottom. We so far have 16 acres done this way, and the rest is just a 5 strand barbed wire perimeter fence.
This Spring we hope to get another 5 acres in the woven wire. You just pick at it as you can.
If this woman is a bit of a nut, it is best for you to put up that fence, and then start calling the Sheriff. That way you have your ducks in a row, so to speak, and there is no way she can claim your dog is roaming as well.


----------



## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Fence is the answer. Period! This is not a new topic to come up here on HT. I am not trying to be mean, so please do not take it as so, this is just the truth. Many people want animals, but can not afford the proper fencing to keep them in. Instead of waiting until they can afford the proper fencing, they buy the animals first. Then have the kind of problems you are experiencing. 

I bought 20 acres quite a few years ago to run my and pigs on. I had to wait almost 2 years before I could afford the $6000.00 to fence it all in in order to be able to use it. I had to put off getting the pigs I wanted, because I knew I did not have a place to keep them, where I knew they would be contained to my property. I have gates I have to open to enter and exit where I live to keep my dog in. I have electric wire I have to take down, turn off, at times to keep various animals where they should and should not be. This all cost money and all took time and delayed me getting the animals I wanted. However, I do not have the issues mentioned above and my animals are both safe from outside threats and my neighbors are safe from damage from my animals. 

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the responsible thing to do for anyone, is to make sure and have proper fencing BEFORE buying livestock. I have just read too many similar stories of problems from those who put the cart before the horse and bought livestock then brought them home without really having a place to keep them.

Build a small pen to keep the few chickens you can afford in. Sell what you are not really prepared to keep, then save and plan and build proper fence around your property. Then you will be ready to keep livestock in a responsible way, that will avoid the issues you are having now. Yes, it takes time. Yes, it takes money. Yes, it will delay you farming the way you want, but long term it will be for your benefit, and the benefit of your animals.


----------



## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Muleman said:


> Fence is the answer. Period! This is not a new topic to come up here on HT. I am not trying to be mean, so please do not take it as so, this is just the truth. Many people want animals, but can not afford the proper fencing to keep them in. Instead of waiting until they can afford the proper fencing, they buy the animals first. Then have the kind of problems you are experiencing.
> 
> I bought 20 acres quite a few years ago to run my and pigs on. I had to wait almost 2 years before I could afford the $6000.00 to fence it all in in order to be able to use it. I had to put off getting the pigs I wanted, because I knew I did not have a place to keep them, where I knew they would be contained to my property. I have gates I have to open to enter and exit where I live to keep my dog in. I have electric wire I have to take down, turn off, at times to keep various animals where they should and should not be. This all cost money and all took time and delayed me getting the animals I wanted. However, I do not have the issues mentioned above and my animals are both safe from outside threats and my neighbors are safe from damage from my animals.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. We have over two miles of perimeter fence alone, and almost 90% of it is 5 strand barbed wire that is over fenced with no climb small square panels or rolled fencing to keep all animals in that need to stay in, and out that need to stay out. Our dogs and equines have no access to the highway, and we open/close gates each time we come or go from any entrance. It cost us some money, and we have done it in sections, but we have gotten it mostly finished. It is our responsibility to contain our animals, and it keeps our neighbors animals away.


----------



## mrsnav98 (Sep 1, 2011)

We have been here for 4 years, with no problems with losing livestock until just this week. We did not go out and buy a bunch of livestock without having the proper fencing for THEM. We put off getting any livestock until we had the proper fencing, again, for THEM. In fact, a couple of years ago, we had to turn away neighbors that wanted to put their horses here because we didn't have the fencing at the time. We now have the fencing, as well as proper sheds, for horses and now have some. 

We are not brand new to farming, nor are we experts, which is why we post questions here. None of our livestock leave our property, even our 1 goat that can get out of her pen; yes we will be going to 6 ft fencing for her, very soon. Even she has never left the property, she just walks around like she owns the place.

For the past 3 years our chickens have stayed on our property, not even crossing the road, without fencing. We even have a pack of coyotes that regularly come across our back pasture and we haven't lost anything to them. All of our trouble started this past week with the neighbor's new dog.

We have double strands of hot wire, barbed wire, wood fencing, all manner of panels and gates. Aside from our chickens, all of OUR animals are contained. We WILL be fencing in our chickens this spring, as soon as the ground thaws and we can put in posts for fence.

The only part of our property that doesn't have any fencing is our two front driveways. We do have alarms on them so we know if anybody, or anything, comes in. It even goes off when a cat passes by. The neighbor's dog is jumping over the fence somewhere in the back pasture, so he isn't setting off any alarms, hence we can't see him. DH did almost get him the first time he ran through our chickens; he came through the front yard. But "almost" didn't work. It obviously made him sneakier.

This dog is a bird dog used for hunting. And he's very determined and not trained properly. That's why I made the comment about not knowing what type of fencing we could use to keep him out; aside from making our property a mini Alcatraz.

We obviously need to install MANY games cameras, start making reports to the sheriff, and actively patrol our property with guns in hand. Maybe we do need to spend a night sitting, watching, and waiting for the sob; then SSS. The neighbor knows exactly what her dog is doing over here because he has brought her his kills, he's a BIRD dog.

Yes, I admit, I did have the fantasy of living a peaceful life out here while farming organically, and free ranging the chickens, not all the animals. I grew up in a big city and have no farming background. I have learned A LOT in the past 4 years. As I stated though, we did NOT just buy the place and then bring a bunch of livestock here the next week. We spent the entire 1st year fencing, cleaning, and building shelter for them. As I also stated, our problems with the neighbor's new dog just started this past week.

I do appreciate the advice and I'm not upset or offended. I do want to make it clear that we have put fencing into place and we do keep OUR animals here. Since Hank started running off, he has been on a very thick chain; for the past year now. That's why we're re-homing him. We don't think a dog should have to spend his life chained to one area. We also agree that a dog should stay on his OWN property.

Which leads to my original question; can we get a dog, maybe a certain breed, that will stay here without needing to be chained 24/7? Hank doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body, which may be part of the problem with him following anyone, or any dog, anywhere now.


----------



## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

late to this discussion (good one).. I am with the fencing people. and ours is not even that great (some of it is just Ag wire wrapped around some berry bushes, reinforcing the 3 strand barbed wire fence that is detiorating fast)... 
the fencing gives your doga guideline to follow- ours could get out, but dont. They are trained to stay in it, and they do a good job of warding off loose dogs that crawl in under the back cattle gates.

Just keep fencing bit by bit til you have it done. I also utilize cattle panels and 6 ft fence posts for moveable inner pastures (chickens and other fowl can move in and out easily but large canids cannot).... 

Good luck!
He does sound like a good dog and worth it!


----------



## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

mrsnav98 said:


> We have been here for 4 years, with no problems with losing livestock until just this week. We did not go out and buy a bunch of livestock without having the proper fencing for THEM. We put off getting any livestock until we had the proper fencing, again, for THEM. In fact, a couple of years ago, we had to turn away neighbors that wanted to put their horses here because we didn't have the fencing at the time. We now have the fencing, as well as proper sheds, for horses and now have some.
> 
> We are not brand new to farming, nor are we experts, which is why we post questions here. None of our livestock leave our property, even our 1 goat that can get out of her pen; yes we will be going to 6 ft fencing for her, very soon. Even she has never left the property, she just walks around like she owns the place.
> 
> ...


I guess I would ask then, how is Hank getting out? Can you fence him in, particularly, so he doesn't travel, and then you can keep him? I thought you mentioned in a recent post that you had decided not to re-home him after all...I was glad to read that because his leaving your property isn't his fault, but he will be the one punished for it in the end by being removed from his family he knows and loves. If it were me, and I'm only saying if it were ME in that situation, I would have animal control pick the neighbors dog up the next time it is anywhere near my place, or I would shoot it. I would also build an enclosed chain link area for Hank to hang out innwhen you aren't outdoors with him, then he will stay home.

I do hope you find a good solution, it has to be hard for you guys after having Hank for a while now, to think about re-homing him because of someone else's problem animal. I wish you the best...honestly a hard situation.


----------



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I don't recall if you mentioned owning other dogs or not. If not, maybe Hank just wants friends..........


----------



## gundog10 (Dec 9, 2014)

JREED, each to their own, the dogs that were taken care had killed my friends dog and ripped it to pieces and ate him. My friend was out with my GHP looking for his dog when the three (150-200lb mastaff mix) charged him from the brush, my friend run for his fence and my GHP started fighting to protect him. My friend made it over his fence and my GHP while injured made it under the fence. You shoot a gun in Kalifornia you go to jail. These dogs may have suffered (don't care) all I cared about was making sure that my friend his wife and two little girls who rode their bikes on the dirt road were safe. Now they are.


----------



## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I understand what Jreed was saying and agree it is not the best way and not a way I would choose. I also understand there are extreme situations, which may require a less than perfect solution, so I would not judge your choices, to do what you thought were necessary to protect others. 

I will add in that I have seen large live traps used successfully at catching stray animals, then they can be dispatched in an appropriate manor as needed, in a controlled situation and a discrete location.


----------



## gundog10 (Dec 9, 2014)

Muleman, these dogs were huge. If I had to guess they were part saint bernard and half mastaff based on the size and color. My friend and I are fairly large guys and had spoke to the owners several times. They were a mean lot of meth heads who kept the dogs to protect their property (meth) which is common in rural parts of kalifornia. Traps would not work as their place was only 200 yards away and even if we had shot the dogs they (people) were always around during the day. Didn't fill we had any other options without halving to deal with the meth heads and the violence the could bring.


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Now that your dog has enjoyed going to town, I think you are right to rehome him somewhere he doesn&#8217;t have to be chained. He may be fine in a suburban back yard. You will continue to have the problem with the neighbor&#8217;s dog unless you get a dog aggressive dog that will either run off the intruder or kill him. I&#8217;m not sure you want to go in that direction. 

I have heard that Giant Schnauzers can be boundary trained as they are boundary protection dogs. My border collie stays close to home, but once the neighbor&#8217;s dogs started coming over he started going over there on occasion. Not all the time, but not acceptable. You need to do something about that hound. You have complained and nothing happened.

What you might do is constantly call the owner and just annoy the heck out of her. However, since this happens when you don&#8217;t know, you can&#8217;t do that. I&#8217;d find some way to contain the dog, perhaps lure him into a building with food or a track. You might even be able to lure him using a track into a large have-a-heart. From there, a trip to an animal shelter.


----------



## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

A cheap 110 volt electric fence charger and plastic step in post or metal post spaced farther apart can be a economical way to keep your dog in and their dog out. I know mine learned quick what the fence wire meant. I am not sure of your financial situation and it is none of my business. I just know that this will be the cheapest and quickest way to get a boundary set that dogs will respect.


----------



## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Yes my giant schnauzer stays home although she could get out if she really wanted to... Is that Boundary trained ...
she is pretty bonded to her people though not a LGD although an excellent homestead guardian....


----------



## CountryMom22 (Nov 27, 2014)

It is bad enough that these dogs are killing your chickens but your children being charged is the last straw. By all means work towards completely fencing your place, don't waste time/money on invisible fencing. Once a dog goes through them they will do it again. Plus they don't protect your chickens/kids from dogs coming onto your property. Document every infraction to the Sheriff and Animal Control. If necessary shoot the dog if it threatens you or your livestock. It's unfortunate but necessary.

Good luck. This is a bad situation to be in. The longer it goes on, the worse it will get. These dogs will only get bolder with each successful chicken hunt or threat that they get away with.


----------



## mrsnav98 (Sep 1, 2011)

Well, we did rehome Hank. He is now with a loving family, with 3 boys, on a farm 15 miles from everything. We get updates and it sounds as though he is doing wonderful. Though we miss him terribly, he now doesn't have to spend the rest of his life on a chain.

I did call the sheriff and he came out and talked to both our neighbor and me. The neighbor is now bad mouthing us to everybody in town. Oh well. I'll just take it w/a grain of salt. At least there's an official record of her problem dogs now.

We do plan on fencing in our chickens this spring, once the ground thaws. We did install a couple of game cameras as well, and we'll get some more later. We are not going to spend thousands of dollars on fencing and tons of security cameras just because we lost 6 chickens. That's just absurd.

We do need a new farm dog. Hank was very useful to us, right up to the morning of his departure. He let us know that our *rented* bull escaped at 2 am. Though the bull didn't leave our property and he walked right back into the pen when DH went out there, I worry to think what MIGHT have happened had Hank not alerted us. 

We mostly need a big farm dog to scare off coyotes and let us know if and when anybody gets out; which fortunately is almost never. I will not have a viscous or aggressive dog. I have 5 children and a lot of livestock that I don't want injured. We don't need an attack dog. DH and I have decided we'll keep the dog tied outside at night, for an alarm, but otherwise it will be an inside/outside dog that we keep very near us, so as to try to avoid another wanderer. 

I'm thinking a rough collie, a Lassie dog. The gal we bought our Nigerian dwarf goats from raises them and says she grew up with them. She said she'll NEVER be without one and that, in 30+ years, they've never had one wander off; until recently. She attributes that to the fact that they went to Texas and had the neighbor check the farm while they were gone. Now the collie likes to go visit that neighbor. Any thoughts?


----------



## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

Any dog will roam eventually. I apologize for this sounding harsh, but you do not need a dog until you can provide for the dog. Providing for the dog is some type of fence that will keep the dog from wandering off your property. A tied dog is a sitting duck, especially at night when most predators are out and about. Coyotes and dog packs will kill on dog on a chain. Nighttime predators after your chickens can be gone with a chicken in its mouth by the time you get outside with the gun. A tied up dog is not able to be much use in defending and protecting the farm. Please, invest in some fencing before you have to rehome another dog. Blessings, Kat


----------



## ndpygora (Oct 21, 2014)

Hi there, we too have problems with other dogs. Years ago 2 hunting dogs got to our chickens and killed quite a few. The dog owner was really upset and made good on the birds, but he almost put the dogs down because they are ruined for hunting. Recently two huskies got to our goats and killed all three while we were out of town. They got in under the 5ft horse fence. My nephew who was keeping an eye on things found them and shot both dogs. I thought our fence was secure. We now have two guard dogs, a Shepard and a Pyrenees. We put in an underground fence on the perimeter of our three acres. It's working great. Our dogs have free run of the property. The Shepard ran thru twice the first day but hasn't since. We have had a few unwanted visitors, they chase them out of the yard but always stop at their boundary line.


----------



## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

mrsnav98 said:


> Well, we did rehome Hank. He is now with a loving family, with 3 boys, on a farm 15 miles from everything. We get updates and it sounds as though he is doing wonderful. Though we miss him terribly, he now doesn't have to spend the rest of his life on a chain.
> 
> I did call the sheriff and he came out and talked to both our neighbor and me. The neighbor is now bad mouthing us to everybody in town. Oh well. I'll just take it w/a grain of salt. At least there's an official record of her problem dogs now.
> 
> ...


A collie, like lassie, is a herding dog. Not all have the big time desire to herd, but if you want a dog to chase, a collie is the one. I do have a smooth coated collie. Cooper is awesome HOWEVER, he is kenneled at night because the coyotes will eat him. And because he can't hardly stand not to herd my ducks. He is outside all of the time with me and does great with supervision. I do not leave him alone, unsupervised. He just like to see what trouble he can find. I have an Anatolian Shepherd that is with my goats 24/7. She's never left the pasture but I have tough fencing and quite honestly, she has no idea that she could jump the fence if she really wanted to. She is my guard. Cooper, my collie, is strictly companionship.


----------



## Megsmum (Feb 6, 2015)

I am very new here, . We have 2 dogs and Mastin and a Border Collie, like any dog,anywhere if they see something that offends or excites they can run off our Finca ( here in Spain a farm is a finca). Because we do not want the girls leaving the Finca and equally we do not want other animals entering the Finca we are in the process of fencing the whole place, whilst its only 3+acres, its time consuming and costly, but not as costly as something happening to the dogs or them doing something to someone else's animals. We decided that we would not get the chook's, ducks etc until we were securely fenced. For me Dogs should not be able to wander at will, there are bad people willing o do bad things to animals


----------



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I'm glad Hank has a home where he is happy. I encourage you NOT to get another dog until you have the rest of your place properly fenced. Leaving a dog chained at night is not wise, especially with cayoties in your area.

I've had 4 dogs since being on this place. The first year nothing was fenced; yet I raised Apache Rose (mixed breed of shepherd/lab/chow/wolf) from her 8 wks birthdate and not once did I chain her. The only times she left my acreage was when I had her and the goats in the back pasture, then Apache would cross the creek bordering my property yet never went far; and when I called, she was always within hearing distance and came quickly. Cherokee (full blood German Shepherd) likewise was brought on the place at 8 weeks of age. By the time I had her the fencing was up all around my 6 acres. Still, she could have gone under at spots and didn't. Then I got Cujo (full blood lab)...also at 8 wks of age...and, though I've seen him jump a 3' high fence in my garden, still not once has he left my 6 acres. Cujo is now 6 yrs old and I added an LGD (Karakachan) to the place. Valentina, the Karakachan, has not left the property either. Now I doubt my dogs are any more loyal than others people have had; so I attribute their not leaving my property to the fact we walked them around the parameter often as they were growing, letting them know where the boundary was. (Neither will even go thru my front gate should I leave it ajar when I get my mail.)

With all this being said, I urge you to get whatever dog you decide on at a very young age and train it to your boundary lines AFTER you put up your fencing.


----------



## Foxglove (Jun 25, 2013)

mrsnav98 said:


> Well, we did rehome Hank. He is now with a loving family, with 3 boys, on a farm 15 miles from everything. We get updates and it sounds as though he is doing wonderful. Though we miss him terribly, he now doesn't have to spend the rest of his life on a chain.
> 
> I did call the sheriff and he came out and talked to both our neighbor and me. The neighbor is now bad mouthing us to everybody in town. Oh well. I'll just take it w/a grain of salt. At least there's an official record of her problem dogs now.
> 
> ...


Okay, just read this entire thread....You do not need another dog, you need fencing and perhaps a couple of years worth of research before you purchase, barter, or in any other way acquire anything that respirates! My advice to any dog breeder in your area.....or any you may contact in the near future :runforhills:


----------



## Skandi (Oct 21, 2014)

My girl didn't wander but now she's discovered that the neighbours have a dog she does, they visit eachother on occasion, he comes here and she goes there. However I do not let her out totaly unatended. and I won't untill we have decent fencing. She does come when called. 

Even in the UK you are entitled to shoot any animal that is bothering your livestock (on your land) and chickens count. I would warn the owner that if I catch them straying on my land there will be trouble (Animal control or a gun you decide) And save up for fencing, as to your dog, well I have housedogs so they get walked when I can't let them out, (like at the moment as she's in season and no pups thank you!)


----------

