# Eastern Coyotes



## Chief Cook (Apr 24, 2011)

Holy Cow! I was just watching NAT GEO WILD today and saw where a Canadian Woman was killed by coyotes. The first known instance of a fatal attack by coyotes. Turns out this is not the ol Western coyote that I am familiar with. These are a subspecies called Eastern Coyotes. They are crossed with wolves, proven with DNA done by the Canadian gov. They are larger, and hunt as a pack. The coyotes hunted her as a food source. The largest male continued to stand over the woman even with men trying to drive it off! Finally a warden shot it twice with a shotgun before it would leave. They hunted the pack of three down and killed them. A couple even got them on camera minutes before the attack. They sure don't look like just another coyote! Just what ya'll Northern HT folks need. I had no idea that they crossed with woves. In fact I thought they were mortal enemies and that wolves would kill coyotes. I don't think I will look at coyotes the same way again. NM has introduced Mexican wolves back into the environment, so now I don't feel quite as safe in the woods as I used to. Won't keep me out of there, but I will be more careful. Stay safe up there in the North.


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## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

Yes I remember that story, if I recall there were a few others also. There was a thread on it not too long ago.

HF


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

I live pretty close to the Canadian Border here in Northern VT. Our coyotes are bigger than the ones I saw when I lived in AZ. Yes they hunt in packs but I've seen them hunt in packs in the southwest too ( who ever said they were always solo hunters was wrong ).

I thought they were crossed with dogs, most people call them 'coydogs' here. One was around 100 lbs when shot a few years ago. They thought it was a wolf but DNA proved it a coyote.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

northern coyotes trace back to single grey wolf cross just north of lake superior. the genes predominate because they are big enough to beat the pure coyotes. that movede in from south of the great lakes.
according to a canuck friend there is a problem w/ ongoing crossing with red wolves.
pure wolves still generally will run down & kill the hybrids when they run into them.
the largest recorded "coyote" in the USA was an 82# male killed in Maine that was found to trace back to the greyX. even crossbreds won't reach 100# at 1/2 or less wolf blood. if they are more than 1/2 wolf they will look like a wolf not a coyote & genetic testing will verify it as a predominantly wolf hybrid.
grey wolves & coyote only have 96% genetic commonality so hybrids are easily proven through DNA testing. likewise coydogs can easily be proven by DNA testing due to only 98% genetic commonality (wolves & dog only have 98.6% commonality).


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## MonsterMalak (Apr 15, 2011)

Pops2, Thank you again for your experience and knowledge. You seem to be able to piece together many tidbits of info that I have accumulated. 

In East Texas, the coyotes are red, and weigh 40-50#. Theory is that since the Palestine area of East Texas was the last place where the Pure Red Wolf was trapped for conservation, our coyotes are a hybrid.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

We've had neighbours attacked by coyotes and if they were pressured to feed they would take out a LGD or two or three. Usually they just split up and lure the LGDs away and then the others pick off a lamb or two. Packs here run up to dozen but more commonly in 3s and 4s. When I was a kid you could walk the fields with a broken stick and feel safe. Today you need a shotgun or rifle.


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## MonsterMalak (Apr 15, 2011)

Ross,
I feel sadly that it is a matter of time until we will have to addapt many of the practices of Europe. Many places in Russia, India and Asia minor,,, people are not safe from the wolves.

And with PETA blocking any control measures, it will get out of hand.

Reports of attacks will increase in time.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Finally a warden *shot it twice with a shotgun before it would leave*.


That's why I never suggest a shotgun as a predator weapon.

They are ineffective at any real distance


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## sherry in Maine (Nov 22, 2007)

I have seen some big coyotes here.
Heard my dogs barking one night (before I put up kennel panels) looked out the window, to see my german shepherd chasing one off. GS weighs 75lbs, what she chased was as big as, if not bigger than her.
Concerning the red coyotes, MonsterMalak, I buy skins from my neighbor, who runs traplines. He told me he trapped 3 (I think) red coyotes. One is 'fireball' red (his words) and the other 2 are also distinct. When they are ready, I'll go look at them, cant wait to see.

Which reminds me- last summer out walking I saw at a distance what I thought was a large red fox with no markings. It surprised me, so I studied it for a while. I also didn't have my glasses on, so it could have been a coyote, perhaps one of the ones my neighbor trapped. It's tail was held 'foxlike' and it was 'playing' with something. It also wasn't afraid of me, or rather, it didn't run away the way I've seen coyotes do. I was at a distance from it, so maybe it didn't feel threatened. It kind of meandered away, after it picked up/tossed whatever stick or something into it's mouth.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Most of the coyotes here are the usual browish/tan/gray coloring but I saw a dead one on the side of the road the other day that had the most gorgeous red coloring. It was bigger than normal too. I sure hope a different strain of coyotes has not moved into the area.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

A red wolf is not a red color. It is colored a lot like any other wolf or coyote.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Here's an news report from our area, now maybe y'all will believe our coyotes are no longer small.

DALLAS - Something has happened to the coyotes that roam the underbrush and dank creeks and drains that wind through northeast Dallas.

Built like canine tanks, the coyotes in this North Texas pack are taller, longer and more massive than the streamlined, wasp-waisted coyotes found elsewhere in the state.

They make their homes alongside sleepy subdivisions and bustling thoroughfares. Drainage canals that eventually dump into Dallas' White Rock Lake have become a kind of superhighway for the four-legged.

Reports of these enormous animals have drawn the attention of one of the nation's foremost wolf biologists, L. David Mech, a research scientist with the U.S. Geological Survey and professor at the University of Minnesota. A typical Texas coyote weighs 25 to 35 pounds, Mech said, and these animals weigh between 40 and 50 pounds.

No researcher before has reported coyotes of this size in Texas, he said.

"Coyotes and wolves are closely related," Mech said. "When I heard about those large coyotes in Dallas, I thought it was worth looking into because they are consistently large. It isn't just one extra-large animal but several, like the whole pack is larger than usual."

Coyotes -- traditionally known as solitary creatures that howl in the distance at night -- have learned to live among humans. And researchers say that the coyotes captured in North Texas may have a remarkable ability to adapt to their changing environment or have crossbred with other canine species.

"It's possible that the coyote is changing genetically," said veteran trapper Mike Trpkosh, who has caught a number of these coyotes. "The coyotes are huge. They're off the charts -- a super species of coyote."

He has combed through tangles of mesquite, ragweed and cottonwood in the reedy outback of the Lochwood area near White Rock Lake in search of coyote tracks, waste, kill sites and dens, hoping to track down an enormous alpha male coyote.

"I've been looking for him for over a year," he said. "I found some scat with bones and a large print in the gravel on Tuesday. I'm pretty sure it's him."

Trpkosh contracts with a number of cities, including Dallas, to trap and dispose of coyotes and other nuisance animals.

Over the past few years, he said, he started noticing a change in some of the coyotes he was trapping, particularly in the Lochwood neighborhood. These coyotes are bulkier than most, with deeper chests and fur with a downy undercoat like a dog's.

At first he attributed the coyotes' change to diet.

"I figured they were eating pets and pet food and their size was a product of good nutrition -- but good nutrition's not enough to explain the change," he said.

These "super coyotes" may be the first signs that the species is crossbreeding with dogs, Mech and other researchers say.

In March, Mech flew to Dallas to collect DNA samples from the coyotes' fecal matter, and geneticists at the university are examining it to determine why the coyotes are so big. The results will be available in August.

Mech said crossbreeding between coyotes and dogs has been well-recorded in the Northeast but is new to Texas.

Some animal experts are skeptical.

Ron Cornelison, a public health technician with the Texas Department of Health, attributed the coyotes' size to diet.

"They simply have more access to dog food or cat food," he said. "The food supply is more plentiful, so you'd expect to see coyotes a few pounds heavier with a better coat and appearance."

Cornelison said he doubts that dogs and coyotes are interbreeding.

"Coy-dogs are very rare," he said. "People claim to see these mixes -- and genetically they can breed, they're not that far apart -- but most of the time coyotes and dogs just don't mix."

But Mech said arguments in favor of diet fall short. Coyotes throughout Texas have the same access to the usual fare of rodents, rabbits and garbage in addition to pet food and small, domesticated animals found in greenbelts and neighborhoods, he said, and record weights are being reported only in a specific area of the state.

Crossbreeding between coyotes and dogs might also explain the animals' aggressive behavior.

"A coyote bred with a dog is dangerous -- it removes their fear of humans," said Capt. Garry Collins of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. "They can be aggressive if you're between them and a food source."

However, Collins said he is unaware of a population of coy-dogs in the Dallas area. "Dogs are a bigger problem," he said. "I think that's what people are seeing."

Mech said a second explanation might be that Trpkosh stumbled upon a pack of coyotes that had bred with wolves. This cross-hybridization accounts for larger coyotes in the Northeast and in Canada. But given that Texas' indigenous red wolf population was virtually hunted to extinction and has not been seen in the state for nearly 30 years, Mech said this theory is not likely.

Trpkosh said the trend reaches beyond a single strain or group of giant coyotes; the big animals have been trapped in Garland, Murphy and Mesquite, 15 miles away. Packs usually range five to seven miles, Trpkosh said


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## MonsterMalak (Apr 15, 2011)

Very interesting article.

Research the Red Wolf Preservation efforts in the 60's I believe. The last 13 red Wolves (More a rusty redish brown) were trapped in the Palestine area. 2-3 hours from where this article was written.
The 13 determined pure from xray, fur, weights and measurements, as DNA testing was not avaliable at that time. Also trapped were dozens of hybrids that were weeded out of the selection. So the hybridization was in place back then. This is something that happens when a species is in low numbers, and lacks adequate breeding partners.

Since the early 80's when I moved to East texas, we have always killed Coyotes ranging from 30-50 pounds. They also run in big packs. 

Guess they may have just moved into the Dallas area, or may have even gotten larger. I also feel that as the Introduced Makensie valley timberwolf spreads its range, more hybridizations will happen. Because previously, the coyote was kept out west by the presence of the Wolf. Now it is everywhere.


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## Olivia67 (Mar 6, 2008)

To make matters worse, there are people out there breeding coyotes and dogs and selling them as pets. I fear that if someone had one that didn't work out (duh!), they'd be more prone to let it go in the woods rather than take it to a shelter where it would be put down. Those same types never spay/neuter either. Guess it doesn't matter where they come from though, the end result is that it's a new threat to our livestock and ourselves that we need to be aware of.


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## Grazer (Dec 23, 2011)

Olivia67 said:


> To make matters worse, there are people out there breeding coyotes and dogs and selling them as pets. I fear that if someone had one that didn't work out (duh!), they'd be more prone to let it go in the woods rather than take it to a shelter where it would be put down. Those same types never spay/neuter either. Guess it doesn't matter where they come from though, the end result is that it's a new threat to our livestock and ourselves that we need to be aware of.


That is so true...when I watched that episode on NatGeo a year or so ago, I was really surprised by the boldness of those Eastern coyotes.
When they were talking about them being crossed with wolves, I was wondering to myself just how many of those coyotes were crossed with dogs as well.
Coyotes crossed with dogs are less fearful of humans and therefor more problematic to us.

A little off topic here: another thing that's worrisome is the fact that no one really knows just how many wolfhybrids are out there.
When people talk about wolves being bigger and heavier than ever, I often have to think of F1 wolfdogs, who because of the so called hybrid vigor are often larger than their parents.
It's funny how the people who purposely cross wolves with dogs or dogs with coyotes are often the least responsible breeders. 
I think it's so wrong for these so called breeders to cross wild animals with domesticated ones when they don't have enough knowledge or experience, not to mention that most of them are in it for money


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## Olivia67 (Mar 6, 2008)

I do animal rescue, specifically exotic animal rescue and a few years ago I took in a coy-dog cross. The owner was under arrest for over 100 animal cruelty violations, the authorities literally found dead kittens in plastic bags hanging from the trees, one horse starved to death and another one almost dead, the list went on and on... So there is this little red coyote looking puppy and I took it in. She had been kept in a tiny crate and was deformed, her front legs were shorter than her back ones and she walked like a low rider car. As she grew up, things went from bad to worse, she began peeing in my bed and couch (gross), she was in pain all the time and could hardly walk in the mornings. She would throw up any kind of pain meds we tried and so I had to have her put down by the age of three. I have a friend who has her brother, who is still doing well but has emotional issues. This is only one incident of course but I have other friends who have rescued coyotes and coy-dogs and the experience is similar, hard to impossible to housebreak, flighty, hard to keep fenced in, not loyal like a domestic dog would be and prone to being nippy to outright aggression. But if you go to Hoobly.com, you'll find at least two ads for coy-dog breeders and it really disgusts me. With all the information that people have at their fingertips, why on earth would someone pay to go through what I just described?


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## Grazer (Dec 23, 2011)

That's just horrible. 
Animal hoarders and people who cause animal cruelty really disgust me. 
And I understand that it's a little different with animal hoarders; as they do what they do because of the psychological issues they have, but the fact that they force so many creatures to live under these awful conditions makes me mad.
It's torture basically, whatever their intentions are.

I'll also never understand why so many people who want wild animals as pets (whether it's a coyote or a lion or a mix between wild and domesticated like coy-dogs), put them through all that suffering.
They claim they love their animals, yet they cause them so much emotional and physical pain as most of them just can't provide adequately for these animals.
They don't have enough knowledge, experience, space, time or money.

It's funny how it's mostly the irresponsible individuals who don't want a domesticated pet but would rather get something wild into their houses.
It seems they honestly do not care about everything that can go wrong by doing that.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Grazer said:


> It's funny how the people who purposely cross wolves with dogs or dogs with coyotes are often the least responsible breeders.


I would be so bold as to say anyone crossing wolves with dogs are by definition irresponsible breeders.


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## MonsterMalak (Apr 15, 2011)

When I was young, I wanted one of these crosses. But after I researched the actual temperament, containment, aggressive potentials and risk,,,,, I changed my mind.

Some things are better left never done. And this cross is one of them.

No telling how many of these have been released or turned out, and ended up breeding with the coyotes. Could be one reason for the increase in size seen lately.

Just as the recently released Eurasion Boars have changed the dynamics of the feral hog population, allowing them to double in population in the past 10 years, the dynamics of the Coyotes are turning more wolf like.

No turning the clock back to have a "Re-Do",,, we are here to face the problem.


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