# Cans of gun powder??



## Cheri in NY (May 10, 2002)

I sure hope you guys can help me with this...I came across several (10-12) cans of black powder in my cellar. Some of them have started to rust. They are from Dupont and Winchester companies. I estimate them to be at least 30 years old as that is how long the original owner has been dead (1984). What do I do with them?? They are contained on wooden shelving, not wet, but the cellar does get moisture as most do. It is nothing my sons nor I want . HELP?


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## bigjon (Oct 2, 2013)

flat metal cans-triple f black powder?older it gets-the more volatile it gets.dont touch it!call your local police dept/bomb squad.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I would just take it outside and sprinkle it in the lawn. Just because the out side surface is rusty doesn't mean any moisture got in sealed cans.

 Al


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## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

alleyyooper said:


> I would just take it outside and sprinkle it in the lawn. Just because the out side surface is rusty doesn't mean any moisture got in sealed cans.
> 
> Al


About the best way.

Myself, I would pour it into a bunch of small pile and a trail and toss a match on it in the middle of the drive way.

but I am also known for not doing the "safe thing" and calling people like cops and such to dispose of things that are likely to create a scene.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Al may be on to something. There should be a ton of slow-release nitrogen in that stuff. I'm guessing that the sulphur content will work to drop your PH some. 

In an area with the right needs (tomatoe garden, maybe), black powder could make a great fertilizer.


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## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

Don't call the cops if you want to keep your dog alive. They would probably want to blow up your house just to be on the safe side and charge you for keeping bomb making materials. I am being only slightly sarcastic.


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

Whatever it is, don't get it near open flame, electric sparks, or incandescent material.

_*Let us know what it says on the outside of the tins, then we can give better answers.*_

Any firearm propellant is a good, concentrated, quick nitrogenous fertiliser for lawn or garden. Retail price is in the vicinity of $20-$25 per pound, plus horrendous freight.

If it really is gunpowder, black powder, grain size stated as some number of upper-case "F"s followed by a lower case "g" (e.g. FFg or FFFg), then if properly stored it will not deteriorate with age. It contains a simple mixture of sulphur, charcoal, and saltpetre in strictly controlled grain size. 

If it is any one of the more modern smokeless powders, it consists of nitrated something-or-other (nitroglycerine unlikely, nitrocellulose probable, nitro something else possible). It CAN deteriorate with age, and become unreliable (not _necessarily_ unstable). However, storage in a cool dry dark place gives it the best chance of not doing so. Your cellar takes care of most of that, and the tins keep it dry and dark. People are still shooting ammunition made for World War 2, and even WW1. The ammunition mostly still works, although maybe not as well as it did when new. 
Open the lids on the tins in good condition, and conduct a sniff test. If you get an acrid, acid smell, the powder is no longer reliable as a firearm propellant. Use as fertiliser and water in.

Do the smell test on the rusty tins as well. If no apparent problem, make a wide-mouth funnel and bin by cutting off a large softdrink bottle. Well away from any source of ignition, empty the powder into the bottom of the bottle, then shine a flashlight through the neck of the tin, and inspect carefully all round the outside to see if you see any pinholes of light. If no problems, back in the tin through the funnel of the cut-off softdrink bottle neck. If there are any, the smokeless powder goes to the garden; the black powder goes back in the tin, but the tin is marked as pin-holed. Black powder will still be good - exposure to air doesn't hurt it, and Robinson Crusoe used black powder from a keg that had soaked up/in seawater. However, truth in advertising...

So... decide if it's worth trying to sell it. If not, it's all fertiliser.
If it's worth selling try Ebay, but don't use the term "gun". Make it "pickup only". Other outlets might be contacting local gun sports clubs or Western Action clubs.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

great fertilizer , just sprinkle them on the grass before a rain and be prepared to mow more often


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

bigjon said:


> flat metal cans-triple f black powder?older it gets-the more volatile it gets.dont touch it!call your local police dept/bomb squad.


just make sure no flames or smoking is happening while you spread it around the grass and wet it down

150 year old black powder still works just fine it is not dangerous black powder is the most stable of all the gun powders

30 year in cans might be bad (only from moisture as i have 30 year old cans of fffg that are just fine )but will not be an issue to either wet down or sprinkle on the law and wet down 


most of the black powder used to fire the 16 inch guns on the navy battle ships was produced in the 1940s , testing in the 1980s found it had lost 1% of it's energy and was still fine to use.


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Old black powder more dangerous what sort of silly folk tale is this! You do realize this stuff is worth at least $2O a pound in sound condition and if you have the common sense of a door stop no more dangerous than ammonia.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Dutch If she knew a muzzle loader I think that giving to that person would be sound advice but considering she lives in the U.S.S.R.NY dumping it may be the least hassle 

I know the U.S.S.R.IL has a law against individuals having more than 5# so with out checking local laws fertilizer is probably the easiest option 

I know if it was in Wisconsin , I would just offer to stop over and pick it up or have her donate it to the local 4H muzzle loading leader in her county , if they found it was good they could use it . Black is worth 14 dollars a pound right now shipped but you have to buy 25 pounds at a time , I pick it up from the supplier for 10 dollars a pound 
yes it does potentially represent a hundred or 200 dollars in 2014 dollars , if it conflicts with local law it won't be worth it.

things we consider totally normal in Wisconsin or Minnesota are far beyond the scope of what can or should be done in Occupied Territory. sadly the thought police may already be on the way to her door just for the post.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Cheri in NY said:


> I sure hope you guys can help me with this...I came across several (10-12) cans of black powder in my cellar. Some of them have started to rust. They are from Dupont and Winchester companies. I estimate them to be at least 30 years old as that is how long the original owner has been dead (1984). What do I do with them?? They are contained on wooden shelving, not wet, but the cellar does get moisture as most do. It is nothing my sons nor I want . HELP?


Surely wish I was closer..

If that is black powder I would dispose of it for you free of charge.. Our Civil War reenacting unit would burn through that easily enough. 

Even if it was modern powder I would dispose of it for you. 

But alas I'm not that close.. Check with local folks who do the Civil War reenacting or shoot muzzle loaders or reloaders etc. 

I also use black powder in my 45-70 Government, Sharps carbine


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Lots of collectors out there now days. Even if you decide to dump it. If the cans are in good shape there is probably a collector who would buy just the old cans from you.I know I sure which I was closer I would love to have it all. However, like some said without some more label info. we are all just guessing as to what it really is???


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Doesn't really matter what the label says, it is still good lawn fertilizer. Crip NY people maybe could go to jail now since April first for giving away gun powder of any type. Seems they do a back ground check there now even for ammo, an if rumors are right your limited on how much you can buy.

 Al


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## Cheri in NY (May 10, 2002)

Thank you guys.... there is a local guy who may know someone in the gun club here. It just scares me to even know all that is down there. I won't use it for fertilizer...we only have 3 acres and neighbors are too close. LUK what happens to it. Anyone in VT or MA on here who wants it?


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

the LAST thing you want to do is call the police.. You think you got problems with a few old rusty cans of powder.. then wait until the police show up.. 

Old damp powder gets worse... it doesn't not ignite easier.. it's harder to ignite... 

Myself, I'd take and pour some out on the sidewalk and drop a match on it and see if it burns well or not.. if it does, I'd use it or sell it.. if it doesn't, then I'd pour it on the lawn..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

be careful with any match testing it doesn't burn like it does in the movies , think flash pan fast on a old camera , gas fumes fast and not the sizzling trail of powder in the movies 

I was just watching Robinson Crusoe the modern remake and he puts a bunch of powder in the cave then a trail back it i had to laugh at the ridiculousness of it burning so slow the short legged little dog follows it and is killed so to give you a better idea my German Shepherd couldn't catch a trail of good black powder 

a properly tuned flint lock can can be fired up side down and the powder will burn before it has time to fall even an 1/8 of an inch


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Cheri in NY said:


> I sure hope you guys can help me with this...I came across several (10-12) cans of black powder in my cellar. Some of them have started to rust. They are from Dupont and Winchester companies. I estimate them to be at least 30 years old as that is how long the original owner has been dead (1984). What do I do with them?? They are contained on wooden shelving, not wet, but the cellar does get moisture as most do. It is nothing my sons nor I want . HELP?


There's a good chance the powder is still good and worth money. I'm not sure what the laws are in NY. It may be smokeless powder. Considering that a 1 lb can goes for somewhere between $20 and $30 You may be able to sell it to a reloader. That could be some of the most expensive fertilizer you ever used if you just dump it.


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

Cheri in NY said:


> Thank you guys.... there is a local guy who may know someone in the gun club here.


Probably the best way for you, since you live where you do and feel the way you do.


Cheri in NY said:


> It just scares me to even know all that is down there. I won't use it for fertilizer...we only have 3 acres and neighbors are too close.


Why not? It is just plain nitrogenous fertiliser - a little bit less concentrated than saltpetre (sodium or potassium nitrate like you buy by the large sack in the garden department). If it IS old-fashioned black powder then it IS saltpetre, even "more less" concentrated than ammonium nitrate or urea. If it is more modern smokeless powder then it is likely the exact same thing (nitro-cellulose) they used to make those huge old-fashioned movie reels, and projected using a bare electric arc lamp. Gunpowder or smokeless powder is no more likely to become demonically possessed, jump up and kill you, than are guns, hammers, or rocks. In any case, once it's been sprinkled widely and watered in then it's wet and diluted, like any other fertiliser. After that you'd need a blowtorch to burn it in the surrounding soil, and you could never get it to explode, not even with gasoline and a lightning bolt.

And please, for our own information, just to satisfy our curiousity, _*what does it say on the labels?*_


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

if that person you know doesn't want it , use it as fertilizer , a 1/4 of an acre would be far more than needed it will not get dry enough to burn after being wet down and down in the grass on the damp earth it picks up moisture like a sponge once it is spread out and the nitrogen can leach out of it into the ground it is just crushed charcoal.

seriously if you were to fill the half full can of black powder the rest of the way up with tap water , you could play kick the can with it , I don't think I would that can will break open and your shoe will get dirty 


a few years ago friend choose to give my wife a hard time when she was delivering him some black powder, we make an annual run to the closest supplier and pick up for ourselves , 4H and a few friends at the club , one of those oh i see Pete sent you to deliver the powder in the car on a hot day , she came home figuring he was giving her a hard time but a little worried about it's volatility , so i pulled up the MSDS for it to show here that before the cans of Black in the back of the van would go off she the gas tank under the car would already have started burning , the seats and upholstery would already be in flames and she would either be crispy or far away before the black was an issue 

black powder is more stable than the foam in your sofa from heat , the foam in your sofa seats at about 450 degrees will combust and then it is like solid rocket fuel , black powder doesn't burn till 801 degrees if you read the MSDS 

now a good spark into dry black does get the first particle to >801 and that particle sets off a chain reaction rather fast , so closed cans are not much risk , open loose and dry should be handled in small amounts less than an ounce with no sparks or fire around , but if you your not smoking or burning and you sprinkle it on your lawn then wet it down the risk is gone.


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

Cheri in NY said:


> It just scares me to even know all that is down there. I won't use it for fertilizer...we only have 3 acres and neighbors are too close.


It's been sitting there quietly for thirty years, but now you are so scared simply because it is there.

Honestly, you are putting yourself in more danger each time you put gas in your lawnmower, or you pull out onto the highway. You never think twice about things like that because it's something you do every day. You are concerned about neighbors one hundred feet away? Has anyone in your neighbor ever used Home Depot fertilizer on their lawn or garden? Are you freaked out by that? Remember, the Okahoma City bombing was a ferilizer bomb.

Stick with the idea that you can have someone from the local club come by to pick it up. Try selling it for 5$ per pound. They will be thrilled. You have more important things to worry about.


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## Cheri in NY (May 10, 2002)

So several of the cans do say FFF or 3F or FFg. Some said "fine" or extra fine". The guy who I thought might want them, did. He has done some maintenance, plowing and such around here when my truck wasn't running, so I gave the cans to him. Good neighbors are truly hard to find.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

glad they went to a good home


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## Pat32rf (May 5, 2014)

Like you say, good neighbours etc. Excited cops are easy to find, especially when you don't really need them....:lonergr::lonergr::lonergr::lonergr::lonergr::bouncy:


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Young and female cops are often as ignorant as some of the posts here. Glad you did not call them.

Gunpowder, in cans, stored in a bunker (basement); the current storage plan used by the United States military. (but they do use big cans) Good for years and safe from everything except idiots. 

In one test a powder plant filled a rain barrel half full of powder, put the barrel under a downspout and left it there. Some twenty years later the powder could still be dried out and used. Properly made modern powder is stable. 

Because black powder contains a soluble nitrate it cannot be flushed with water as was the powder in the barrel, but if kept dry it is good almost forever. 

All gunpowders demand some caution in handling. I knew some fellows who were reloading shotgun shells one Sunday afternoon while drinking and smoking. They had set up their loader on a table in one fellow's den and spilled some powder on the table. Rather than clean it up immediately they just brushed it aside, but they did put the lid back on their powder can and had the cap on the loader. 

Before they got much further they dropped ash on the spilled powder and got a flash that set nearby curtains on fire. They had an exciting few minutes then. These were old WWII men who should have known better, but they'd handled so much powder they'd grown careless.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Oxankle said:


> Young and female cops are often as ignorant as some of the posts here. Glad you did not call them.


I don't think we should discriminate , all cops are very capable of being ignorant about powder just are most citizens , and in many if not most places cops are bound by SOP even if they know better they must call bomb squad to deal with any explosive or suspected explosive and for some good reasons they have no idea what they just walked into so their procedure says secure area till specialists arrive even if you know just what it is as a cop who is going to risk a paycheck and a pension over it.

but when we know what is in the can and know about powder we can easily safely use or dispose of it


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## FireMaker (Apr 3, 2014)

I always liked it when we got calls to dispose of powder and ammo at the PD. smokeless powder we would only use if sealed. Black powder was passed out to those of use that shot BP. Ammo was passed out to those that had appropriate calibre. We then went to the range and practiced. Great safe way to dispose of old ammo and powder. We did not use any opened smokeless powder as there was no proof that it was correctly labeled.


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## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

Sell them as novelty ashtrays. They make great presents for bosses and nosy neighbors. Seth


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

"Originally Posted by *Oxankle*  
Young and female cops are often as ignorant as some of the posts here. Glad you did not call them."

You are correct of course; My apologies. Certainly no officer should disregard SOP, and it is absolutely true that there are men who are totally ignorant of the uses and handling of powder. It is just that in my mind I expect older men to know more, and I am accustomed to the idea that far fewer women have experience that exposes them to the uses and handling of explosives.

How the world has changed. Every boy that I knew growing up was familiar with the use of firearms. Most of us had made small quantities of black powder and some had blown things up with dynamite, available at the hardware store. I did not know any girls who did such things. 

I bought dynamite here as late as the 1980's I believe, until it was outlawed. Somewhere I still have a small coil of fuse.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

it's all fine , no apologies needed , I am a fair bit younger than you if you were buying dynamite in the 70s and early 80s or before , I can see it from both sides my one grandfather grew up in the 20s and 30s in prohibition Chicago the only gun he ever touched was in the Navy training at Great Lakes Naval WWII and a few times he went hunting with my grandmothers family after they were married , he just had no interest , my other grandfather grew up in wisconin on a farm and hatchery and cleared fields , blew stumps with dynamite and was well known in his teens for hanging out the window of a car blasting fox as they chased them through the fields 

I find things we expect are common knowledge to not be all the time 

I talked to a young man a few weeks back he had no idea what vacation time was , his dad had never stayed at a job long enough to get any and him mom only worked part time jobs.


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