# Define Mustang



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

We had a recent sale not far from me that was selling feral horses from a specific area of the province and I keep hearing them referred to as 'Sundre Mustangs.' 

I consider a mustang to be something other than a bunch of horses that were left behind, dumped or escaped from a reserve herd but would love to hear your thoughts on the term.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I have always known them as a specific breed, decendants of Spanish horses that were brought here generations ago. Most are traceable to specific herds and bloodlines. I currently have a wild caught Mustang gelding and a Mustang/Appaloosa cross mare, and my first horse as a kid was a Mustang. 

I do not consider all wild horses as Mustangs. Not sure why they would be referred to as such?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I think there is a romantic notion attached to the term. 

We have had other horse gather and adoption programs in the past and in one case, a core group started a registry for those horses because they were somewhat unique and there was some desire to keep their bloodlines as they were but they were not promoted as mustangs in any way.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I have the feeling that most herds of 'mustangs' in the U.S. at any rate should be more correctly referred to as feral horses rather than mustangs. The original mustangs were probably descendents of some of the horses brought by the Spanish. I would expect that most of the original herds have been so heavily diluted by domesticated horses that have been turned out or escaped, especially in the mid 1800s to the early 1900s, that the original genetics are very different now.

There are some herds that have remained more isolated, at least after the 1900s, but I think more likely that most "mustang" herds could be more properly described as feral horse herds.

The name 'mustang' however is a great PR tool, so is used very consistently.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Don't for get all the remount horses that were turned out when the government shut down the the re-mount program. If they didn't sell them, they turned them out. During the depression and the dust bowl days a lot of horses were turned out as well. During the 70's or 80's well meaning people were turning purebred stallions out with "mustangs" to improve the horses. The last few years more horses have been let go--the market has been bad and hay has been high. I don't know that there are many "purebred" mustangs, most if not all are feral horses. It is nice to see them running free, if they are healthy and have plenty of feed. The problem is too many horses, both feral and domestic.


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## gracielagata (Jun 24, 2013)

Even to call an old mustang pure would be a misnomer wouldn't it? 
Aren't all mustangs, from nearly the dawn of a 'wild' horse in the Americas, borne of some random horses that got out- either on their own, or via human doing?
Mustang does sound so much prettier than feral horse, though lol.

We have a BLM Colorado caught mustang. 
He is such a thick, cold blooded, drafty looking thing, I certainly don't look at him and think 'wow, he musta been a looker running those Colorado plateaus/mountains when they caught him as a 2 year old.' lol 
While I am not super savvy with lots of different horses, he certainly does seem to hold those traits that wild/unhandled when young/mustang horses are said to have. 
He certainly does *not* embody the beautiful and wild, running free with such grace idea everyone has of mustangs... think more along the lines of the chunky engine that could. 
But we love him anyway. 

Anyhoo...


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Mustangs from the original Spanish lines were small, stocky built horses. They were definitely not the larger, sleeker, faster horses of the range now-a-days, that's for sure! My guy was wild caught in Nebraska as a young colt. He had gotten in with a QH herd on the plains that ran on a huge ranch. They rounded up all the yearlings, he was caught up with them. When they culled the sale yearlings, he was culled out with that bunch and was run through 3 different auctions before I picked up he and a QH colt out of a slaughter buyer auction in Colorado. He was definitely wild, it took me 3 months to get a halter on him! He has all of the wild horse tendencies, and is a flight taker extraordinaire. He is a magician when it comes to defeating fencing of any kind, and door/gate closures are party tricks to him. He opens whatever, whenever, so we have padlocks on all perimeter gates and 5 foot tall no climb horse fencing on all perimeter lines and our front pasture/house line as well. He decided to poo poo the front entryway cattle guard and jumped on over it several times, so we locked down our driveway gate as well. 

He is as "Mustang" as they get I have never DNAd him for Spanish lines, but he "probably" is derived from them. I have a lady friend in California who does have a Spanish Mustang, from the old lines. He is DNA proven to come from the original horses that were brought up with Spaniards, though don't ask me how they have that DNA on record. I think that part of it is a crock, but so she says anyway. He is a pretty cool horse no matter, and he was wild caught. 

All that to say...no one knows for sure! I sure don't! I just know that my Mustang is different than any of my other horses, and it isn't just small things he is different in, it is all things. His behaviors and conformation and....well, everything about him is different from my others. So yes, he is a Mustang to me


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## gracielagata (Jun 24, 2013)

aoconnor1 said:


> Mustangs from the original Spanish lines were small, stocky built horses. They were definitely not the larger, sleeker, faster horses of the range now-a-days, that's for sure! My guy was wild caught in Nebraska as a young colt. He had gotten in with a QH herd on the plains that ran on a huge ranch. They rounded up all the yearlings, he was caught up with them. When they culled the sale yearlings, he was culled out with that bunch and was run through 3 different auctions before I picked up he and a QH colt out of a slaughter buyer auction in Colorado. He was definitely wild, it took me 3 months to get a halter on him! He has all of the wild horse tendencies, and is a flight taker extraordinaire. He is a magician when it comes to defeating fencing of any kind, and door/gate closures are party tricks to him. He opens whatever, whenever, so we have padlocks on all perimeter gates and 5 foot tall no climb horse fencing on all perimeter lines and our front pasture/house line as well. He decided to poo poo the front entryway cattle guard and jumped on over it several times, so we locked down our driveway gate as well.
> 
> He is as "Mustang" as they get I have never DNAd him for Spanish lines, but he "probably" is derived from them. I have a lady friend in California who does have a Spanish Mustang, from the old lines. He is DNA proven to come from the original horses that were brought up with Spaniards, though don't ask me how they have that DNA on record. I think that part of it is a crock, but so she says anyway. He is a pretty cool horse no matter, and he was wild caught.
> 
> All that to say...no one knows for sure! I sure don't! I use know that my Mustang is different than any of my other horses, and it isn't just small things he is different in, it is all things. His behaviors and conformation and....well, everything about him is different from my others. So yes, he is a Mustang to me


Exactly on all the behaviors.  
JD acts mustang not in his flight tendencies at all, but in his desire to not encounter anything new. And in being stubborn. Maybe a way to prevent his fat lazy self from having to do the mustang flight lol. 
He has no desires to try to get out of where he is, even if I leave the gate open in their mostly dirt pasture, with nice grass on the other side, he will just look at it like 'hey you might need to close that.' My qh/appy mare will be through it before you can blink. 
I think JD knows he has it good with no predators, and all the hay and water he can consume; all for the low, low price of a few hour ride 1-2x per week, lol. And since he hasn't the slightest clue on how to make his cold, thick self do anything with grace, my husband doesn't even try to ask him to do tight turns, weaving or anything like that. Sorta like a semi at a left turn- it takes planning lol. If we want him to trot, usually my husband has to let me and my daughter trot ahead, then JD goes 'wait, don't leave me!' and actually will do a real trot lol. But again- no grace, all power. He would make an awesome plow horse, I think.
We bought him as an 8 year old from the girl who bought him from the BLM unhandled. She spent months gentling him then making a riding horse out of him (breaking sounds so mean lol). You can see it in that he had issues with being handled by us when we 1st got him- he did not like the change of owners, horse trailers, living locations, etc. It took a few weeks for him to learn that we weren't going to harm him or anything. Now he adores all of my family. 
But when he does learn something, it sticks. And he does not ever challenge humans once he is taught a specific thing on respect or space.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

gracielagata said:


> Exactly on all the behaviors.
> JD acts mustang not in his flight tendencies at all, but in his desire to not encounter anything new. And in being stubborn. Maybe a way to prevent his fat lazy self from having to do the mustang flight lol.
> He has no desires to try to get out of where he is, even if I leave the gate open in their mostly dirt pasture, with nice grass on the other side, he will just look at it like 'hey you might need to close that.' My qh/appy mare will be through it before you can blink.
> I think JD knows he has it good with no predators, and all the hay and water he can consume; all for the low, low price of a few hour ride 1-2x per week, lol. And since he hasn't the slightest clue on how to make his cold, thick self do anything with grace, my husband doesn't even try to ask him to do tight turns, weaving or anything like that. Sorta like a semi at a left turn- it takes planning lol. If we want him to trot, usually my husband has to let me and my daughter trot ahead, then JD goes 'wait, don't leave me!' and actually will do a real trot lol. But again- no grace, all power. He would make an awesome plow horse, I think.
> ...


Yes on the respect, but mine had fear issues from all of the abuse/neglect of being in several auctions, man-handled, forced, and beaten once. Poor guy, he was only 10 months old or so when I bought him. He was a mess, and his fear issues have never resolved. He trusts me completely, but no one else. He is a tank when moving, tight turns aren't in his future, unless he is spinning away from someone trying to halter him, then he is a master spinner and would have been a great Reiner!! I ride him, but no one else can. He is not going to change now, it has been 10 years since I've had him, and I just take it in stride. He is who he is! He sees freedom in every location, and he willingly attempts to remove himself from every pasture he has been in. Once he understands the fences aren't going to give way, he will stay in for good. But Heaven help us if a fence is not anchored well, has any type of weakness or breach, because he will leave, and he is a totally wild, tail flagging, head tossing mess of a Mustang once he's out! Until I shake a feed pail at him, then he is my bestest bud again.


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## gracielagata (Jun 24, 2013)

aoconnor1 said:


> Yes on the respect, but mine had fear issues from all of the abuse/neglect of being in several auctions, man-handled, forced, and beaten once. Poor guy, he was only 10 months old or so when I bought him. He was a mess, and his fear issues have never resolved. He trusts me completely, but no one else. He is a tank when moving, tight turns aren't in his future, unless he is spinning away from someone trying to halter him, then he is a master spinner and would have been a great Reiner!! I ride him, but no one else can. He is not going to change now, it has been 10 years since I've had him, and I just take it in stride. He is who he is! He sees freedom in every location, and he willingly attempts to remove himself from every pasture he has been in. Once he understands the fences aren't going to give way, he will stay in for good. But Heaven help us if a fence is not anchored well, has any type of weakness or breach, because he will leave, and he is a totally wild, tail flagging, head tossing mess of a Mustang once he's out! Until I shake a feed pail at him, then he is my bestest bud again.


Poor guy, sounds lucky to have you. 
JD has never been mistreated or anything to our knowledge, thank goodness.
He also can pull out those type of talents when asked to go through a mud puddle. The last great one he did, he literally lifted up his entire front end, husband on him included, and pirouetted around on only his back feet in a tiny space to turn and set his froufrou front feet down in a non-mud puddle spot. I was floored that he was able to pick himself up so quickly and beautifully, considering his usual movements. Like he had been watching clips of the Spanish Riding School horses. lol
I wonder if we traumatized when my husband rode him for the 1st time. We came to a giant mud puddle, and decided to push both horses to go through it, instead of around. My mare went, then it was JD's turn. He finally went front legs in, started pawing, and before my husband realized it, was laying down to roll! My husband jumped off as fast as he could and started working on getting JD back up. Maybe now he inadvertently thinks puddles are bad, lol. Or that is the story he is sticking to!


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## reubenT (Feb 28, 2012)

Very little original spanish blood, mostly feral, and a mixed bunch from all sorts of ancestry. I spent lots of time observing them at the BLM adoption facility in TN back in the 90's. adopted 6 during that time, still have 3. I got some of all natures, from a tough drafty type that was almost already tame when I got him, takes a heavy hand just to get him to move over. To a light boned "scardy cat" kind that's hard to tame. One mare had a severe parrot jaw, she finally died. They are great for learning training on, you can get such a wide variety of natures, can get a lot of experience quite quickly. With careful selection and good training you can get some good horses and go far with them. Some can be good at endurance racing, some good at dressage, some good cow horses, many for just general purpose anything. One of my mustang mares is a great kids horse, haven't seen her spook at anything for years, but is also a bit hard for the kids to get her moving, I have to get on her a few minutes and get her in the mood for doing something after she's been idle for awhile. The advantage of selective breeding and having breeds is greater consistency, we can have a better idea what we're getting before getting it. I've seen the mustang being put in the warmblood category, but they don't fit a category, individuals fit in all categories from cold to hot. 
Mustang is a fine term, but strictly speaking if you want to apply the mustang name to only spanish horses, there's not much of it there. I would differentiate between them by calling one BLM mustang and the other Spanish mustang. I think the real spanish horses don't go by the mustang name. They're called paso finos instead. Direct decendants of the original spanish horses by way of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Dominica, etc. Which were originally a mix of Barb, Spanish Jennet and Andalusian that Columbus brought over on his second trip, to be raised and used for exploring the new land. They've been selectively bred for various traits, primarily smooth gait. But some for long stride and some for short stride. And they have an energy that's refreshing, called brio, but some of the ones bred for very short gait and high brio are too hot, almost unmanageable, not good for trails. The one I had for awhile was so fun to ride, because he was full of energy but was also very easy to handle. He loved to run the trails with some real speed but I could ride with a flat web halter and he'd be easy to control.


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## HorsesNGoats (Feb 5, 2015)

Mustangs are a specific breed with variations similar to that of an appendix and foundation Quarter horse. They have bloodlines dating back to the horses of Spanish conquistadors. They're land is decreasing. 5 of every 8 mustangs with be rounded up and sold.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

I thought they were of Spanish bloodlines mixed with quarter horse from King Ranch in Texas. At least that's what a horse dealer told me.
No, I wasn't buying mustangs from him.


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## HorsesNGoats (Feb 5, 2015)

Pearl B said:


> I thought they were of Spanish bloodlines mixed with quarter horse from King Ranch in Texas. At least that's what a horse dealer told me.
> No, I wasn't buying mustangs from him.


Really it depends on who you talk to. Also, anyone trying to sell you something will likely tell you what they think you want.(not always, but sometimes)


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

HorsesNGoats said:


> Really it depends on who you talk to. Also, anyone trying to sell you something will likely tell you what they think you want.(not always, but sometimes)


I know, like I said I wasn't buying mustangs from him. I'm just curious what other horse people think of that, or agree/disagree.

I did get an incredible Appaloosa from him though. :happy2:


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HorsesNGoats said:


> Mustangs are a specific breed with variations similar to that of an appendix and foundation Quarter horse. They have bloodlines dating back to the horses of Spanish conquistadors. They're land is decreasing. 5 of every 8 mustangs with be rounded up and sold.


That was my original understanding but I have learned that many BLM horses do not have any Spanish bloodlines at all but Alberta does actually have a very small band of horses that have been DNA tested and do have strong Spanish bloodlines and those I would consider to be Mustangs.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

wr said:


> That was my original understanding but I have learned that many BLM horses do not have any Spanish bloodlines at all but Alberta does actually have a very small band of horses that have been DNA tested and do have strong Spanish bloodlines and those I would consider to be Mustangs.


Yes, there is one band in Nevada, one in California, and one other that I am not sure where it is (I can't remember if it was Colorado or New Mexico). Those are the Mustangs I know of...


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

aoconnor1 said:


> Yes, there is one band in Nevada, one in California, and one other that I am not sure where it is (I can't remember if it was Colorado or New Mexico). Those are the Mustangs I know of...



It is my understanding that all BLM horses are all called Mustangs. 

I'm not trying to argue anybody's definition but honestly just trying to set something clarified in my mind. 

Ultimately, it may come back to my own perceptions because I tend to think of the neck brand as an identifier.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Looking at the BLM sites last night I noticed that they refer to most of the horses as "wild horses", with the exception of the Kiger Mustangs, from Oregon. This band has been DNA tested and does have high % of Spanish blood. They also have a high % of dun factor, and are popular in the northwest, not only for their colors, but their dispositions and versatility as well. 

Our DS adopted a 3 year old wild gelding last fall. The combination of a slow day at work and a nearby BLM facility with a sale encouraged him to buy one.(They have other horses and he has ridden since he could sit up) The gelding was not even halter broken, loaded with a chute. He had him halter broken in a week, and working in a round pen in a couple of weeks. The vet came out when he had been at DS's 3 weeks, he had a cut that need to be sutured. He said he couldn't believe that the gelding had been born wild in Nevada, handled for three weeks and was so good to handle. He seems to be both smart and have a good disposition.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Molly Mckee said:


> Looking at the BLM sites last night I noticed that they refer to most of the horses as "wild horses", with the exception of the Kiger Mustangs, from Oregon. This band has been DNA tested and does have high % of Spanish blood. They also have a high % of dun factor, and are popular in the northwest, not only for their colors, but their dispositions and versatility as well.
> 
> Our DS adopted a 3 year old wild gelding last fall. The combination of a slow day at work and a nearby BLM facility with a sale encouraged him to buy one.(They have other horses and he has ridden since he could sit up) The gelding was not even halter broken, loaded with a chute. He had him halter broken in a week, and working in a round pen in a couple of weeks. The vet came out when he had been at DS's 3 weeks, he had a cut that need to be sutured. He said he couldn't believe that the gelding had been born wild in Nevada, handled for three weeks and was so good to handle. He seems to be both smart and have a good disposition.



I've trained a few from wild bands and found them to be very smart. 

As for use of the term mustang, I'm concluding is usage has become muddied over time.


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## jbo9 (Oct 30, 2012)

There are all kinds of types for wild horses or mustangs or whatever you want to call them. 

But I think there are some commonalities as well, primarily structure, feet and legs. Now, not all of them are or ideal structural confirmation, but they seem to have less problems (though those individual horses might never make it through the round-up process). They tend to be more coarsely made in the shoulders, thicker necked and bigger headed than most horses. And they have some substance of bone and size to their feet. Is this a generalization? Probably so. But most of the mustangs/wild horses offered through BLM adoptions seem to hold those traits.

I think the push to refine horses has resulted in fine boned, tiny-footed horses that are a bit narrow between the ears. The wild horses stand out in that they haven't been subjected to such refinement of breeding in the last 50 years (or longer, depending on your definition of mustang)


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

aoconnor1 said:


> Mustangs from the original Spanish lines were small, stocky built horses. .........)


They couldn't have been too small. They were carrying men wearing armor. 

The mustangs in Oregon are in named bands. The herds are most commonly called for the area they call their territory. I would guess that a "sundre" mustang is from a named herd.

There is draft horse blood in some of the Oregon/Idaho bands because the federal government mixed draft horse into the Nez Perce herds, both to encourage farming and to destroy the mounted warrior. Hard to be a mounted warrior if you no longer have a warhorse.

If they did it to the horses of the Nez Perce, they most likely did it to the horses of other tribes, too.

A lot of the Oregon mustangs are good looking horses. Even the draft crosses. There is a herd in the south eastern mountains that produces 17 hand tall pintos that are as nice as any American Warm Blood that you'll see anywhere.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

oregon woodsmok said:


> They couldn't have been too small. They were carrying men wearing armor.
> 
> The mustangs in Oregon are in named bands. The herds are most commonly called for the area they call their territory. I would guess that a "sundre" mustang is from a named herd.
> 
> ...


Sundre is the area they came from and I get that part, I'm just struggling with the idea that horses that have relocated from local reserve bands have any right to the term 'mustang.'

The government gathered horses off a military training block and they were adopted out as Suffield wild horses and because they herd was literally a closed herd, a registry was started.

Ultimately, I think my frustration lies with the generic use of mustang.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

oregon woodsmok said:


> They couldn't have been too small. They were carrying men wearing armor.
> 
> The mustangs in Oregon are in named bands. The herds are most commonly called for the area they call their territory. I would guess that a "sundre" mustang is from a named herd.
> 
> ...


Ever see a Morgan carry a huge person? Morgans tend to be short, stocky horses, but they can sure pack a heavy load! Same as a Mustang, SOME are very stocky, short statured horses. Doesn't have a thing to do with amount of weight they can carry, it is more bone structure that holds up a heavy weight, not height.

I have seen taller, lighter weight Mustangs, and smaller stocky built Mustangs.


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## HorsesNGoats (Feb 5, 2015)

wr said:


> That was my original understanding but I have learned that many BLM horses do not have any Spanish bloodlines at all but Alberta does actually have a very small band of horses that have been DNA tested and do have strong Spanish bloodlines and those I would consider to be Mustangs.


That's what I've always been told. But I have no idea now what most of my sources were, so they may not be reputable. I do know that there are mustang variations. &#128523;


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=mustang

This was always my understanding of the word so anyone that wants to call a feral horse that was once roaming free, mustang, is ok by me. I've never thought of them as a "breed". They keep so many in holding facilities these days that I'm not sure what you would call the ones who were born in captivity but I don't think it should be mustang.


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