# LGDs killing/eating lambs



## gone2thedawgs (Apr 7, 2008)

I know this type of thing has been posted before but with different circumstances. I have a 3+ year old Anatolian female and a "rescue" what we think is a Kangal/Great Pyr cross male that is 2+.

Some history: The Anatolian has been raised with livestock and I got her as a 18 month old. The cross was a rescue from a humane society but ID'd by a knowledgeable LGD person. I have had both dogs for over a year and they have been through one kidding without incident. The sheep are new. 

Two weeks ago I caught them two dogs play/mauling one of my young Nigerian goats. I have come home to wet goats before as well. Today I came home to the Anatolian having blood on her front legs/paws and a screaming lamb down in the lower pasture. When I got down there mom was no where to be seen and it was standing by another lamb that had it's throat and innards gone. I found mom up by the barn and now she wants nothing to do with the other lamb. (maybe because it smells like the dogs? or it's been too long...) 

What is your opinion about what I should do with these dogs and if you know of something I could do to help the ewe accept the lamb that would be great. Thanks in advance.... Tammy


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## Laurie J (Mar 9, 2005)

Sorry to hear about this! I can't really help with the dogs much. We have two female GP's (one is 8, the other is 1), but got them both at 6 weeks of age and they had been born in either a lamb pen (our oldest), or a goat barn (the younger dog). Both came home and were put with bummer lambs, and we've had no problem with them at all. Is it possible that a coyote or something killed the lamb and the dogs were just playing with the already dead lamb? 

I can help with a possible solution to get the ewe to accept the lamb. We've had success with getting a ewe to accept a rejected lamb, and even grafting a lamb onto an adoptive ewe, by putting Vic's Vapor Rub on the back, head, and bottom of the lamb, and then a good amount in each nostril of the ewe. It totally messes up their sense of smell. You'll have to repeat this several times a day, as the scent starts to wear off. Usually a day or two is all we've had to do it. If the lamb smells a lot like dog, maybe a bath first to get rid of that smell wouldn't hurt! Good luck!


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

How old are the lambs? Are the goats and sheep in the same pasture? Just trying to get a feel for the set up.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

You could try treating the lamb as a graft. This of course involves confining the ewe and being there for feeding. If the lamb was already nursing he should again once the ewe is restrained. In a short time they should bond again. If it hasn't make sure you get some food in it asap. How many sheep are the dogs guarding? How big of an area? 
One thing I would do is separate the dogs. Even if one may have been a good dog it can and will pick up habits from the other. You might also consider keeping the dogs apart from the sheep except under supervision. 
Seems like some will go through a phase of playing with the lambs. Fortunately I haven't had any kill one, but have caught them mouthing them. I corrected them for it, and it didn't seem to take much to stop the behavior. This year timing for raising a pup was right with lambing season so my seasoned lgd is teaching the pup not to mess with lambs. He sure got on her case a couple times for bad intentions even before she did much. Since I have never had a lgd kill and eat lambs I am not sure if they can easily be trained out of that and trustworthy again.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

double post


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## gone2thedawgs (Apr 7, 2008)

Thanks for the replies! I have a gal bottle feeding the lamb for me I just got panicked last night, but I will get a bottle of Vicks to keep on hand!! 

I don't think it was a coyote (though anythings possible) but I am suspicious because I recently caught them play/mauling a young goat and I came home to my ram with a good portion of his wool pulled out even some hunks of skin with it in a couple of places. 

I have the sheep and goats in their separate paddocks away from the dogs. We have 5 acres fenced/crossfenced. 5 Katahdin sheep (4 ewes, 1 ram) and 13 Nigerian goats (11 does, 2 bucks) bucks are in a separate pen that the dogs can't get into. 

I work 5 days a week and am gone from home about 10 hours a day. When the dogs were younger I corrected any inappropriate behavior and didn't leave them loose with the livestock unless I was home. Since the dogs are over 2 now (thinking they were trustworthy) I started letting the stock out in the morning so they could graze the pastures.

I don't know that I would ever trust them again....it makes me sad. I'm not sure if I could find pet homes for them but I would never consider passing them on to another livestock situation.


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## gone2thedawgs (Apr 7, 2008)

oh and Looking4ewes...the goats/sheep are in the same pastures and this was a newborn lamb.


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## Waiting Falcon (Nov 25, 2010)

Separate the dogs. Proper introduction is a must and kidding/lambing should be personally overseen . Sheep look/smell/act different from goats. I would also pull both dogs and start there training over. You saw them mauling a goat what did you do? 
You can not trust these dogs with your animals until they know what you want. Mauling is a serious offense!
You have the lamb taken care of now take care of the dogs and put them separately in a xpen. Put one on the leash and walk the pastures and watch the attitude, correct inappropiate action.


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## gone2thedawgs (Apr 7, 2008)

When I saw them mauling the goat I shouted at them, grabbed their scruff on either side and let them know how angry I was. They yelped and ran off when I let them go. I have walked the pastures with them and they do not exhibit any bad behavior. I watch them when I am down working at the barn, no bad behavior. It's typically when I am out of sight or at work. Which that kind of defeats the purpose of having guardian dogs...I can take care of protect my stock when I am home/at the barn...it's when I'm out of sight or at work that I am counting on them. I don't know that I could ever totally trust them with my stock.


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## MonsterMalak (Apr 15, 2011)

Sounds like you have a challenge ahead of you. Trust is going to be the big problem.

Because a team of capable dogs could wipe out alot of your stock in a days time. I would start with confinement or removal from the stock unless you are in with the stock. 
take them in seperatly, until you figure out the initiator. Might be that one is starting the aggression or play, and the other is joining in.

Luckily, I have not had any problems with 3 grown LGDs, and 6 pups in with my sheep and goats. But can not say that I will always have a fear of walking out and finding a problem like you describe. 
Good Luck.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

There are other similar threads on the sheep and goat boards here on ht. try a search for some more ideas


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