# Is this a terrible idea?



## marusempai (Sep 16, 2007)

So I'm thinking an LGD would be a good idea - while the previous owners relied on their fences (which are very nice) and a guard llama (I DON'T WANT A LLAMA!) to good effect, the coyote population is booming, and a couple of the neighbors have seen bears this summer. One fellow swears up and down that he's seen a panther stalking his calves. I've had zero predator losses, and I want to KEEP it that way, so an LGD seems like a no brainer.

However I have never owned a dog. I like dogs, and have worked with other people's dogs and as a volunteer at animal shelters. We were going to adopt one (as a pet) before the move came up, but then we were moving... I know that LGD breeds can be strong willed dogs. Does my never have had a dog before make it a terrible idea to get one? Is there something else I should be considering? I am new at many of the things I'm thinking about and that worries me.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

What animals are you trying to protect and how big is the property? Most small animals will be protected pretty cheaply by simple shelters you lock them in at night, but that is not to say there is not a place for LGD's. I would not automatically disqualify you because you have not had a dog before, but it may make it more difficult for you and you will have to be committed to learning to deal with a new type of animal for you. As with most things, there is a learning curve to proper management. Provide the info. above and I am sure there are those who will come along and chime in with more precise information to your question.


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## PlowGirl (Nov 16, 2005)

My personal opinion is that if you need a dog , you need more than one. Especially if you are going to be dealing with larger/multiple predators. Should you choose LGD s , try to get them from someone nearby who can help you along the way.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

I was nervous about getting our first LGD last summer (although I have had pups since I was 5- I picked out a german shepherd, but mom replaced it with a golden retriever haha)....
and i have to say although strongwilled its more like in a cat - sort of way- you know a cat has its own idea how to do things and goes about in a sideways manner, not like a bull that charges you..

Not too bad at all. Just have to be patient and consistent, and firm, and gentle at the same time (kinda like with a cat- you dont get good results manhandling one thats for sure)--
We have a pack of dogs already, and the LGD pup was a perfect addition....He is 16 months now and really hitting his stride- a great guard and yet so gentle as well....

So thats my experience and personal feedback!
Maybe the trainers can chime in here with more concrete advice!...


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Hello,
I see you live in Blacksburg, VA. If I'm not mistaken you are up there where some great Karakachan (LGD from Bulgaria) are raised. So, if you do decide to get an LGD, check out the American Karakachan Organization for some information about this breed.

Muleman is right on with his questions. The more information you provide, the more pertinent responses you will receive. We have some great dog people in here!


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## marusempai (Sep 16, 2007)

Muleman said:


> What animals are you trying to protect and how big is the property? Most small animals will be protected pretty cheaply by simple shelters you lock them in at night, but that is not to say there is not a place for LGD's. I would not automatically disqualify you because you have not had a dog before, but it may make it more difficult for you and you will have to be committed to learning to deal with a new type of animal for you. As with most things, there is a learning curve to proper management. Provide the info. above and I am sure there are those who will come along and chime in with more precise information to your question.


I have goats and assorted poultry, and live on four acres, most of which is cross fenced as pasture. On our three sides we have a road, a hayfield, and pasture that is periodically used for beef cattle. I've been thinking about how I might lock them in at night, however all our buildings are preexisting and I'm not much of an engineer - only one area closes on all sides with a real door (not just a gate) and if I tried to put all the goats in there at once all hell would break loose!


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## marusempai (Sep 16, 2007)

motdaugrnds said:


> Hello,
> I see you live in Blacksburg, VA. If I'm not mistaken you are up there where some great Karakachan (LGD from Bulgaria) are raised. So, if you do decide to get an LGD, check out the American Karakachan Organization for some information about this breed.
> 
> Muleman is right on with his questions. The more information you provide, the more pertinent responses you will receive. We have some great dog people in here!


Syncope Falls Farm, yes?  They are fairly near, indeed. I had been reading your thread, and wondered if that was where you got your pup. You have been full of useful information. :thumb:

One upside, I suppose, is I don't have any habits about how a dog "should" be raised, that could get in the way. I gather that raising an LGD puppy is different than raising a pet puppy, or even other types of working puppies.

I begged my mother for a dog my entire childhood, and then she got a puppy six months after I moved out. I was clearly deprived.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Do you need a Lgd? Probably not but I don't see why you couldn't get a dog. Since your on 4 acres I would probably raise it as a farm dog it will easily cover your property put will probably spend a lot of time by the house too.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Jason's correct in that 4 acres is not that much; and with your house and animal shelters inside, there is not a lot of area for an LGD. (I chose the breed I did because I believed it would be happy on 6 acres; and it is.) A regular farm dog that can be trained to protect your goats and chickens might be best for you and is not that hard to find. Also, such would be easier to work with than an LGD.

This gives me the perfect opportunity to show the "farm dog" I had for years...a full blood shepherd whose prey drive would have driven me batty if I had not had a "mix" to attach her leash to when I was not around. The pictures tell it all.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I am on 5 acres right now and have a Anatolian Pyrenees cross and she has done well to stay close and not attempt to enlarge her territory by leaving. I say talk to some local breeders do your research and in the end get what makes the most sense that you like. having a dog is a long term commitment, so make sure it is what you want before you commit.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Do your homework. Great Pyrenees are real nice dogs, but they think their territory is about 500 acres. motdaugrnds has given you a review of her karakachan on a tiny parcel. You want a dog that will not wander. You may find a great dog that will stay on a small parcel and protect its territory rather than goats specifically. A Bouvier des Flanders may work well for you, and they are more trainable than most LGD&#8217;s.


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## marusempai (Sep 16, 2007)

Never thought I'd see the day that four to six acres was tiny. I love you people. 

I was under the impression that what a farm dog does is very different than an LGD - a farm dog will be primarily focused on the people, while an LGD is primarily focused on the animals. Is that right? My understanding of what a general farm dog does had led me to believe that it would not help much at deterring predators, at least not without a great deal of human involvement. It was also my understanding that farm dog breeds tend to have a higher prey drive - and wouldn't that be a bad thing in this case? I'm new at this and trying to understand everybody's thought process.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

I have 5 acres, GP/Maremma cross. She's perfect and doesn't escape or want to leave. 

You might get lucky and the lgd won't want to leave like mine or you might not and the dog will constantly be all over the place, even miles away. =/ 
If you're near a lot of people, the more aggressive LGDs might not be a good idea. You don't want it to bite someone and end up shot.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Keep in mind also these are all generalities, based on breed characteristics. There are differences inside of the breeds based on different genetic lines and many different other factors. There is NO perfect dog. There is no dog that will automatically know everything it is supposed to do, and not do, at your house and with your livestock. These factors will have a great impact on the behavior of the dog you choose.

My LDG is definitely different than my Golden Retriever, but not unmanageable. I would say the biggest obstacle you will probably face in introducing a puppy or young dog to your place is the absence of an older dog who already knows the rules and will teach the young dog many. Our older Golden was a Godsend to have around, as our LGD paid lots of attention to what she did, and did not do, and how she reacted to different commands. I would have had a much more difficult time had she not been here. Not impossible, just more difficult.


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## marusempai (Sep 16, 2007)

Oh, I get that. However, due to my inexperience, I'm afraid that I'll a) get myself in way over my head or b) misunderstand my needs/the dog's capabilities and get myself into trouble that way. I've been doing lots of reading, but there's always a chance that I just don't know what key words to search for, and am thereby missing something important.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Marusempai, You're correct in that most "farm dogs" have a high prey drive; however, if purchased as puppies, trained to understand human commands and *taught *what NOT to chase, you wind up with a combination, i.e. a dog that will guard your entire place, including your livestock. You can always take your dog to a 101 training class in obedience as that will help you identify your own strengths as well as the dogs. 

The yellow dog in my first pick above was a "mix" (shepherd of some kind, chow, lab and touch of wolf) with a *strong *prey drive. She was smart enough to learn *what I said I meant...no double messages!* She was born on this place and it wasn't anytme at all before she had the entire neighborhood (with hunting dogs around often) intimidated. Neither man nor beast was permitted inside this 6 acres; and if they even got near the fence, she charged ferociously! Oh how I loved that dog!! (She died of old age; and the shepherd she taught, also seen in pic above, died from snake bite a few years later.) What I'm saying is that a smart dog with guard potential *can help keep your stock, your land and your family protected. *

The only thing I knew to do and encourage you to do is to make sure the dog you choose is not a small dog if you have large predators in your area. Also, having two good guard dogs on your place, even only 4 acres, would not be a bad idea. You can train them both at the same time and they would learn how to compliment each other in whatever they're expected to do. It's a beautiful site to see one dog charge a predator while the other is hanging back to tend their charges, ready to join the attack if need be.  (The two you see in the above pics would do just that.)

No need to scare yourself about what you do not know. Trust yourself to learn; and know it is ok to make mistakes.


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## citxmech (Dec 26, 2011)

marusempai said:


> Never thought I'd see the day that four to six acres was tiny. I love you people.
> 
> I was under the impression that what a farm dog does is very different than an LGD - a farm dog will be primarily focused on the people, while an LGD is primarily focused on the animals. Is that right? My understanding of what a general farm dog does had led me to believe that it would not help much at deterring predators, at least not without a great deal of human involvement. It was also my understanding that farm dog breeds tend to have a higher prey drive - and wouldn't that be a bad thing in this case? I'm new at this and trying to understand everybody's thought process.


My Kangal/Boerboel cross currently fits the "farm dog" bill - as she primarily guards her people and territory when on the farm. OTOH - she will not mess with larger farm animals like goats, etc. or even the local deer population. She's not trustworthy with fowl - so we keep them separated with fencing. 

Our dog is murder on predators however, - so on a "smaller" property, you can still get a bit of both worlds with a general "farm dog." IMHO - LGDs can make fantastic farm dogs as long as you don't expect total dedication to watching the flock.

Also, If you have Coyote packs - more than one dog might be a good idea.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

marusempai said:


> Oh, I get that. However, due to my inexperience, I'm afraid that I'll a) get myself in way over my head or b) misunderstand my needs/the dog's capabilities and get myself into trouble that way. I've been doing lots of reading, but there's always a chance that I just don't know what key words to search for, and am thereby missing something important.



You're smart to do your homework rather than dive in the deep end first, so to speak, but as a confidence booster, always remember this......

*Everything* you've ever done in life, and I mean everything - at one time or another it was your very first time.
No experience, never did it before.

You're still walking, talking, driving, working, using a computer, typing questions on forums, etc., etc.

How many of those can you count?


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## marusempai (Sep 16, 2007)

Yeah, I agree that more than one dog might be a good idea, too. I haven't actually seen a coyote here, but I can hear them yelping up on the ridge about three times a day - and I can HEAR that there are more now than there were this spring! It is a little scary. However I've watched my mom raise two puppies at once, and it looked like a special kind of hell to me - I don't think I could take two at once! So what I'm thinking I'd do is get one, raise it up pretty well, and then get a second (assuming the logic for having two still holds - never know!). The second one should be easier, too, since the older dog will - hopefully! - teach it good habits.


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