# Too much ammonium Chloride?



## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Didn't want to hijack the other thread about Replamin so I thought I would start a new one. A post was made about AC and UC that I thought was interesting...

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janner








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*ammonium chloride* 
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Originally Posted by *Minelson*  
_That is what I thought Alice....But for any male goat, no matter what they are eating, I would supplement with preventative Ammonium Chloride.







_

I recently went to an artificial insemination clinic with a really experienced semen collector. She told us that too much protein is what causes urinary calculi and that stones will come in two different forms depending on if the goat gets more calcium or phosphorus, but it was the high protein that caused them. Also, not enough water can be a culprit. What she said about ammonium chloride is that it changes the ph so that UC doesn't form, but if you feed it constantly the wether/bucks body will counteract this over time, so the thing to do is to feed it for a few weeks and then take a few weeks off. She said that apple cider vinegar was probably just as good, but to follow the same guidlines and not give it constantly. She recommended a senoir horse feed, good grass hay, and soaked beet pulp. Beet pulp is plumb full of GMO, though....
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Here is the thread
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/goats/485042-replamin-vs-vitamin-gel.html

Thoughts???


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The recommendation of senior feed was surprising. I'd like to know why.

I don't dose my bucks every day with AC. Couple of times a week, probably.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Protein can cause something called pizzle rot, but I do not believe it has much/anything to do with true bladder stones. 

There are probably other reasons animals form stones in their urine but I doubt they're anything we could do to manage, so it's not really worth worrying about it for the most part. Anybody know why other species develop stones (even humans?) Illness induced? Kidney failure issues? Keep in mind the way other species process food is drastically different from ruminants.  

UC is prevented by feeding a balanced diet of 2:1 calciumhosphorous. Most bucks do NOT need super high protein - they simply do NOT need it. Or a high energy diet, except perhaps during rut but only as needed depending on the animal. Some (like my boer buck) will not need it. My alpine buck paces and paces the fenceline, worried about his girlfriends all rut. He looses weight because he spends almost no time at the hay feeders. He gets grain while in rut. The rest of the year, my bucks get a meh quality hay, pasture, water, minerals, and baking soda. (well actually the durned things broke their mineral feeder so I have to make a new one... lol. 

The gut is usually pretty good at buffering, it's true. If you're feeding a good diet, it's of less concern however. I think it's easy to feed a bit of AC if your'e feeding grain, but I don't bother otherwise unless I remember to mix some in their loose minerals.


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## janner (Jun 17, 2013)

mygoat said:


> Protein can cause something called pizzle rot, but I do not believe it has much/anything to do with true bladder stones.
> UC is prevented by feeding a balanced diet of 2:1 calciumhosphorous. Most bucks do NOT need super high protein - they simply do NOT need it.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Well I stopped giving my 2 weathers AC every day. I don't really know what to do...If I should just give it a few times a week or for just 1/2 the month. shoot!
Thanks for the info everyone!


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## janner (Jun 17, 2013)

Minelson said:


> Well I stopped giving my 2 weathers AC every day. I don't really know what to do...If I should just give it a few times a week or for just 1/2 the month. shoot!
> Thanks for the info everyone!


The directions given us at the class was a few weeks on, few weeks off and this was only necessary if feeding a high protein diet..say for show animals. She said to feed only 10-11% protein even for growing bucklings. Yes, they won't grow as fast, but they were never meant to grow into hulks quickly. For extra energy to feed soaked beet pulp. Of course the best food for any goat is browse that is not on the ground, ie trees and bushes.

Teresa said another factor in UA is people not realizing that the buck's beard is full of pee a lot of the time and this gets in the water and makes it icky most every day. This of course makes him drink less, concentrating his urine.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Well mine are just a couple of pets that get 1/4C total of BOSS and whole oats for a treat when they come in. Then I give them a handful of alf pellets. They browse all day on 10 acres pasture/grove. Hay 24/7. Replamin Plus and Cargill right now onyx loose minerals. I am quitting the Replamin Plus. I find it messy and just not seeing an outstanding improvement. But I don't milk. So we shall see


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I totally agree with mygoat on this. I also disagree that Apple cider vinegar does the same thing for them as ammonium chloride. I've had a buck get UC years ago & ALL my goats get Apple cider vinegar in their water.

There are different things that can cause stones in male goats & I think the biggest culprit is improper balance of Calcium/phosphorus. Very hard water(lots of iron) can also contribute.
Bucks that are getting too much protein are getting too much grain. Like mygoat said most bucks & wethers don't need a lot of grain. Little bit of grain while in rut, not too much protein.


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## janner (Jun 17, 2013)

Backfourty said:


> I totally agree with mygoat on this. I also disagree that Apple cider vinegar does the same thing for them as ammonium chloride. I've had a buck get UC years ago & ALL my goats get Apple cider vinegar in their water.
> 
> There are different things that can cause stones in male goats & I think the biggest culprit is improper balance of Calcium/phosphorus. Very hard water(lots of iron) can also contribute.
> Bucks that are getting too much protein are getting too much grain.
> ...


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