# Gun Shortage worse than even I grasped



## GREENCOUNTYPETE

it is currently 11/18/2020 MN MI gun deer season is under way WI gun deer opens 11/21

pandemic started in March for most of us at least in WI 3/13/2020 this is the day they sent the kids home from school and said clean out your lockers empty before you leave. now they gave the kids the reason they were going to be doing some work over spring break cleaning lockers.

That evening the WI Governor declared safer at home was to start the 16th. only go essential places and stay home.

some of you may recall the big TP toilet paper shortage started about the 11th by 3/14 TP was a very scarce thing

I had had a online shopping cart on one of the major reloading site I checked and anything 9mm hollow point I had in my cart was now out of stock

we have a gun shop in town small place only open part of the day Saturday and a few hours a night during the week the owner has a day job but he and his dad keep a nice stock of reloading supplies and guns.

when they opened I was able to get some hollow point bullets and some powder and primers to help my supply out and get some reloading in all my spring shoots had been canceled.

I think the little shop stayed open about 2 weeks but by the start of april they closed down for a while , the shelves were fairly empty.

luckily he had several orders already in by 3/13 and stuff started to trickle in he opened up again and had a decent stock considering

now during this time March set an all new record for gun sales based on NICS search data over 3.7 million searches in one month having been in a few shops around this time 3 million searches could have easily accounted for 5-6 million guns couples were buying his and hers. guys were buying 2 at a time often a pistol or two and a AR rifle

weeks earlier there had been a lot of ammo in the warehouses at distributors on shelves and it was drying up quick

a lot of the sales were handguns people feared the unknown

May saw the death of a man in police custody in Minneapolis it became a race thing and within days the looting , rioting , vandalism and arson were out of control to the point the mayor told the police to abandon the precinct closest to it all and the rioters burned it along with blocks of stores
by about the 3rd night of this rioting and looting the police were so overwhelmed they just were not going to respond citizens started hearing for the first time on a 911 call , your on your own till morning call in if you need a report written up then. no fire no ambulance and no police while people watched looters parking in their neighborhoods to head to the stores a few blocks away.
by the 2nd night the looters were well organized using social media to warn the police were coming the area would clear out the police would leave and in minutes they were back at it. by the 3rd night trucks with armed looters pulling up no license plates or dealer tags people standing guard while they looted stores they had brought tools to breach doors and get around security fences the MSM didn't report that part much they were just "mostly peaceful protesters".

this broke out in more places it was wide spread in cities all over the country by June

any gun that could be considered self defense under 500 dollars sold

in June I was looking for a shotgun for my sons birthday , nothing available not even 28 inch barrel mossbergs or Remingtions

if people felt it could have any self defense value it was gone

rifles particularly hunting rifles in 308 , 30-06 mostly bolt action were still available and the prices hadn't really changed

I found a shotgun , a family member who had shoulder surgery and was not going to be using the magnum 12ga pump for ducks ever again sold it to me for a reasonable price happy birthday , he is a stout lad and can take the recoil the family member with shoulder surgery was not going to be able to take again.

March had se the new record at 3.7 million Nics searches NICS Firearm Checks: Month/Year | Federal Bureau of Investigation
June broke that Record with 3.9 million go figure American cities on fire and police watching their squad cars burn.
it has been steady around 3 mill every other month mostly I would think for lack of guns to buy.

ammo just keeps selling out as fast as it hits the shelves , new people surprised by it every week they always bough a box of slugs or 30-30 a few weeks before deer opener checked their sights and went hunting.

30-30 has been hard to find all summer it is just plain out most places

30-06 had been one of the rounds constantly on the shelf all summer and it is now drying up quick

last night I took the boy tot he local store he wanted to look for a deer rifle he had been using one of mine but it was time for his own.

I talk with the store owner , tell him we are in no hurry he asks what do I mean by that ,I said I know things have been crazy and it is taking a longer time to order things if we need to order what he wants. I know it is the week of hunting and you have people who probably expect to buy a gun and hunt it in 4 days.

he says Pete there is nothing to order maybe in 6 months maybe . if you don't see it here I can't get it the distributors have stopped taking orders.

that was a bit of an eye opener I knew it was bad but that took it to all new levels

not sure there has been a time in US history where you couldn't even order a bolt action hunting rifle in a common caliber nor a pump action shotgun.

maybe a little around WWII

there you have it it's that bad

that said there are probably more guns and more ammo in US civilian hands than at any other time in history


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

12ga in shot size 5 , 4 in lead or buck shot and slugs have been hard to find also

I had thought 22lr was going to be ok this go round even that is only minimally available 

if you have lived through the ammo shortages of the past you would be a fool to be caught without some on hand yet many people are either completely new to guns or have had their head in the sand all year are getting a big surprise when they want a box or two of rounds for their deer rifle or slug gun


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## GTX63

Thanks to years of and numerous calls for unconstitutional gun control, hard left activism, anti 2 Amendment administrations, the media, etc most established firearm owners should have what they need. Ammunition might be another thing.
For these new to guns/first time firearm buyer/voter, they may be sol.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

a ridiculous number of people buy their 2 boxes of ammo for the year 1-3 weeks out from deer season 

they may have owned a gun their whole life but are not well established 

they are waking up to a world they had ignored for decades.


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## Fishindude

These days, when I see a type of ammo I use, I buy a significant quantity of it and keep well stocked for all of my guns.
Found a 1,000 round box of .556 the other day and bought it.


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## altair

Grab your guns and your toilet paper while supplies last, just don't confuse the two. People do get a little nutty when faced with sudden change.


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## Danaus29

I was lucky to replace the box of .22 lr Stingers that I used on raccoons this year. The shop had several boxes of segmented hp .22 lr. They said no more .22 lr will be available this year. 

Just a few weeks ago even Walmart shelves were filled with shotgun ammo.


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## GTX63

Lots of gun newbies standing in long lines in gun stores, trying to buy whatever hasn't been picked off of the shelf.
Lots of gun newbies complaining about waiting periods and processes. "What happened to that gun show loophole"?
I agree, the folks with a safequeen .32 and 11 bullets in a faded box from Pawpaw are being introduced to the reality of modern society.


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## Hiro

This area of the world there are sporadic shortages of ammo and persistent shortages of specific firearms. But, the shelves are stocked with all varieties of long guns, including semi autos rifles, pump and semi auto shotguns, and handguns of whatever caliber is your preference.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Hiro where are you at that the guns stores are full of everything?


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## Hiro

I am in southside VA. I have visited 5 different gun shops in the last week looking for specific makes of over/under shotguns with no luck in what I am in the market for. So, they aren't full of everything. If you are looking for a specific model, by a specific manufacturer, you may or may not find it. But, the racks are full of all calibers of semi auto rifles, handguns and pump/semi-auto shotguns. The ammo selection is spotty. There is no 9mm of any sort and sporadic 5.56, which are the only calibers that I use regularly. Plenty of shot gun ammo is available, at least for now.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

things didn't look bad at my local shop for long guns until the last 2 weeks it is bolt action and lever guns only right now.
pump and auto shotguns some are available.
he would normally have at least 5-6 AR or other semi auto center fire rifle.
his only semi auto rifle this time was a 10/22.
he had about 8-10 semi auto handguns 100 would not have been an exaggeration in January couldn't have fit another one in now they can each have their own shelf and I know he has sold so many handguns like I said he stopped doing printed tags scratch make, model, price on a tag with a string and put it in the case it will be gone in 3 days any way.

I didn't spend much time looking at the ammo rack but it was sparse and 3 people walked in the door while I was filling out papers asked for slugs or 30-30 or other normally common ammo and the response was sorry out of that. a week ago the ammo shelf had most calibers at this store. the big box stores had almost nothing 

I was at Fleet Farm Saturday it was a few shotguns , rifles over 800 dollars and if it was a 4-600 dollar rifle it was a 450 bushmaster , 350 legend or a 6.5 . 3/4 of the spaces in the racks that would normally be full were empty


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## GTX63

The local Walmart had 7-8 shotguns (about all they are allowed to carry now). Our local hardware store, which has a gun department, was picked pretty bare. The local farm store, which normally has a back shelf of 60 guns, had maybe a dozen. The glass display counter had very few handguns remaining.
I honestly hadn't paid much attention lately until this thread came up. The firearm buying fever comes in waves like the flu anymore, and it looks to be flu season again.
I finalized my arsenal or cache, whatever the media wants to call it, a long time ago.


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## Rodeo's Bud

My local place has a decent selection of used guns. Those are the ones I prefer anyway. A decent selection of hunting rifles. Middling handgun selection. 

It definitely is get what you can time. 

About the only ammo around is .17 and 6.5 Creedmoor and some other odd balls. .243, etc. .308 is surprisingly available.


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## gilberte

I've got a good supply of ammo but I don't dare shoot it, at least recreationally. I'll continue to add to the larder as it becomes available.


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## audacity

GTX63 said:


> Thanks to years of and numerous calls for unconstitutional gun control, hard left activism, anti 2 Amendment administrations, the media, etc most established firearm owners should have what they need. Ammunition might be another thing.
> For these new to guns/first time firearm buyer/voter, they may be sol.



Guys. Come on.

This is not some liberal conspiracy, FFS. I don't know why any time an issue with guns comes up, it's "Lard left activism!"

This is a _market problem_. There's a shortage because people rushed the shelves right before deer season opened. Look at the gun market as a whole -- this will clear up like it always has cleared up.


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## GTX63

Is toilet paper, printer ink, beans and rice a market problem?
Yes, things will correct as they most always do. If they don't, then we do.


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## audacity

GTX63 said:


> Is toilet paper, printer ink, beans and rice a market problem?
> Yes, things will correct as they most always do. If they don't, then we do.


Yes, they are. We definitely wouldn't be having those shortages if people didn't rush the shelves and horde. People do the same thing with ammo.

Folks just need to give it time.


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## GTX63

Yes they do. Those that do not prepare are typically the ones who sweep the shelves and have a pantry of goods they get tired of having to fix after about a week. That would be most Americans.
There is a difference, however, between the guy standing 15th in line at home depot for a generator the night the power goes out, and what is happening currently.


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## Kiamichi Kid

The current situation is far less a “market problem “ than it is a reaction to looming unconstitutional gun control bills that have been filed in many states and the threat of the same on the federal level.


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## outdoorman

I've been to two gunshows in the past month here in Georgia.
There was plenty of any ammo caliber and any type of firearm including the labeled evil 'assault-style' rifle.
I didn't buy any ammo because both I don't shoot that often and I've got enough.
I also don't understand why anyone whose been around the past few years wouldn't have stocked themselves when things were plentiful and cheap.


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## GTX63

Lots of first time gun owners this time around. Lots.


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## TripleD

GTX63 said:


> Lots of first time gun owners this time around. Lots.


Concealed carry owners in this county are up 67 percent over last year!


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

people didn't just run to the store before deer season

guns have been flying off the shelf since March and few of them have anything to do with hunting they all have to do with staying alive , in your home and keeping your stuff.

9mm has been in high demand and any supply has sold as it hit the shelves since March

at the October gun show I worked 20 rounds of bulk 9mm fmj in a sandwich bag was selling for 18 dollars 

the supply issue is that , when all the handguns dried up then the semi auto rifles dried up then the shotguns , the the lever guns , then the bolt action rifles


it is a serious fear issue

government is not doing their job

people are seeing that it is failing

they see promises of assaults on the bill of rights and the people from the Fed

they see local city , state , and parts of the federal governments pandering to communists and criminals

the Police that they once believed were there to serve the citizens and insure safety and order can't even keep their own cars and police stations from being looted and burned much less the businesses and homes of the citizens.

it is a MAJOR SHIFT in peoples thinking

the NEW REALITY really isn't any different than what many of us understood however about 50 million people pulled their head out of the sand when the POOP FAN spun

it isn't even just conservatives even died in the wool Democrats were asking where they could buy a gun crazy as that sounds they would like to live and suddenly the idea of a gun to keep their stuff their stuff and this side of the grave started to make sense. it didn't likely change how they voted.

when you remove the obstructions to entry it does make more people buy guns and shoot and hunt NY state went to an all online Hunters education program and set all new records for license sales


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## wkndwrnch

I just picked up a round gun from the gunsmith yesterday.It took him a couple of months to get it back to me, but he did an amazing job. We had a conversation about the increase in his business this year! He said he gave up working the looong days, because he could never get caught up. He said he made some people happy but the next day he was still buried. Now he does what he can by 5pm and then goes home. He says all gunsmiths are this way.


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## muleskinner2

I hauled a load of hay yesterday, and stopped at the only gun store in town. They had two boxes of .12 ga bird shot, and a single box of 44-40 ammo. They have no idea when they might get any ammo. They were also out of primers, and only had a few cans of powder left. We are living in interesting times.


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## barnbilder

I've been looking for a can of IMR 4350 for a couple months. Don't even see where you can order it. Had a hard time getting a case trimmer three months ago. Got a hornady one, you have to have hornady shellholders to make it work, liked to have never found those, had to buy a set of hornady reloading dies to get one of the ones I needed, luckily it was a caliber I kind of needed. The stocks of reloading equipment are even sparse, and from what I can see you can forget primers anywhere.

Every shop I have been in has been filled with people that don't look like regular gun store customers. There are long guns available, but the racks are 1/4 full, the pistol cases have a bunch of empty slots, and what's there is either high end or maybe a long barreled heavy caliber revolver of some sort. Ammo shelves look like the toilet paper aisle within a few hours of being stocked, and that is at highly inflated prices.

Sure am glad that all of my guns got lost in that boating accident.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

saw a box of 1K primers yesterday with a price tag of 125.00 they stayed on the shelf 

found some H4895 I had been looking for to replenish only 3 dollars more than I thought it should cost so given the times I just paid it , this was the first place I have seen it in stock in couple months they had 3 and I left with 2 I figured I should leave some for the next guy.


happened to hit farm and fleet and Fleet farm today 

Fleet farm had 17hmr , and 300win mag and the 30 feet of shelf floor to 5 feet high between were empty

plenty of steel shot and #8 lead and if you want larger lead shot 10 round boxes of turkey loads 

also a surprising amount of 16ga ammo 

rifle rack about 1/4 , no shotguns under 450 almost no pumps no rifles under 500 most 700 or more

pistol case had a couple 22s and a 410 mares leg

Farm and Fleet had 308 and #8 shot 12ga looked like a case of Federal 308 had just been put on the shelf and yes some 300 win mag


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## JJ Grandits

Here in NY the big box sporting store have nothing for ammo. Small gun shops have a limited supply at outrageous prices.
9mm, .357mag, .45 are very hard to come by.
More guns are hitting the racks as opposed to a few months back but it can be slim pickings.
Reloaded supply are like hens teeth.
And on top of it our Governor is friggin' crazy.
Seriously.
Even in my pro Democratic union shop we can't decide if he needs a psychologist or an exocist.


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## HDRider

audacity said:


> Guys. Come on.
> 
> This is not some liberal conspiracy, FFS. I don't know why any time an issue with guns comes up, it's "Lard left activism!"
> 
> This is a _market problem_. There's a shortage because people rushed the shelves right before deer season opened. Look at the gun market as a whole -- this will clear up like it always has cleared up.


Do you deer hunt?
I don't know any that use 9mm for deer. You can't even use a rifle here, shotgun only


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## Hiro

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> saw a box of 1K primers yesterday with a price tag of 125.00 they stayed on the shelf
> 
> found some H4895 I had been looking for to replenish only 3 dollars more than I thought it should cost so given the times I just paid it , this was the first place I have seen it in stock in couple months they had 3 and I left with 2 I figured I should leave some for the next guy.
> 
> 
> happened to hit farm and fleet and Fleet farm today
> 
> Fleet farm had 17hmr , and 300win mag and the 30 feet of shelf floor to 5 feet high between were empty
> 
> plenty of steel shot and #8 lead and if you want larger lead shot 10 round boxes of turkey loads
> 
> also a surprising amount of 16ga ammo
> 
> rifle rack about 1/4 , no shotguns under 450 almost no pumps no rifles under 500 most 700 or more
> 
> pistol case had a couple 22s and a 410 mares leg
> 
> Farm and Fleet had 308 and #8 shot 12ga looked like a case of Federal 308 had just been put on the shelf and yes some 300 win mag


I went to a larger gun shop down in NC to get my daughter her over/under. Since I was buying as a non-NC resident, I had to endure a background check rather than just showing CCP. So, I had plenty of time to peruse the stock. The smaller gun shops near me only have about 50 ft. of gun racks. This joint had 5 times that and the shelves were not bare, but had a lot of empty rack space. There was some .308 and 30-30 ammo, no 5.56 or .270 at all, lots of shot shells of all calibers including pallets of all bird shot size, but only a couple dozen boxes of 00 and 0 shot. 

They would sell 9mm, if you bought a weapon. 50 of hollow point or 200 fmj. But, none if you weren't buying a gun with it.


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## barnbilder

Have noticed on the deer dogging facebook groups I'm on nobody can find the buckshot they want. Buckshot is a very personal thing, each gun likes a size and brand. There were people buying what they can find and driving two states over to trade ahead of season. There has never been a buckshot shortage. But there's never been this many people buying a shotgun exclusively for home defence.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

we must endure the NICS search and they tun us against the WIsconsin database also , it is a little more extensive than the federal only.
it really doesn't matter much to me I pass them in less time that it takes me to fill out the form. I get background checked all the time.


buckshot is a very individual thing to each shot gun much like slugs I was talking with a guy in the Mid south buck shot hunting area he was telling me a shotgun that shoots buck well both pattern and prints at point of aim is a family heirloom that shall never be sold. If you have a hunting buddy with no kids and he dies your offering his Widow good cash for his gun because you knew how it patterned buck.

we can not use Buck shot here even though there was many and are still a few shotgun only zones small but they are around. we got good at making those running shots with slugs.
I like to have a few years ahead on hunting ammo. including some to check zero every year.
I think after this year more people will keep 100 rounds of deer ammo and 250 of their favorite bird ammo.


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## audacity

HDRider said:


> Do you deer hunt?
> I don't know any that use 9mm for deer. You can even use a rifle here, shotgun only


No rifles allowed for deer hunting? Ew. lol


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## HDRider

audacity said:


> No rifles allowed for deer hunting? Ew. lol


You don't get around much. Oddly this site does not even list my state, so I guess there are even more states that impose shotgun only

Ten states mandate �shotgun only� during the firearm season. These states are inclusive of Illinois, Iowa, Ohio, Indiana, Maryland, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Delaware, Maine, and Rhode Island. Three states impose �shotgun only� restrictions on firearm hunters in designated areas. These include Minnesota, Michigan, and Virginia. Roughly, 25% of all states impose �shotgun only� restrictions. This minority has produced the majority of all BTR entries. 

These listings are entered by locality as follows: (NOTE: Shotgun mandate states are represented by asterisk or *.)
1. Alberta 15 bucks
*2. Illinois 11 bucks
*3. Indiana 11 bucks
*4. Ohio 7 bucks
5. Sask. 5 bucks
6. Manitoba 5 bucks
*7. Iowa 2 bucks
*8. Minnesota 2 bucks
9. West Virginia 2 bucks

10. Louisiana 2 bucks
11. North Car. 2 bucks
*12. Michigan 2 bucks
13. Montana 1buck
14. North Dakota 1buck
*15. New Jersey 1 buck
*16. Delaware 1 buck
*17. Virginia 1 buck
18. Nebraska 1 buck
19. New York 1 buck
*20. Maryland 1 buck
21. South Dak. 1 buck
22. Kansas 1 buck 






Hunting Shotgun Only States


Hunting Shotgun Only States




www.imbmonsterbucks.com


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## Danaus29

Their information on Ohio is several years out of date. You can use rifles or handguns that meet barrel and caliber requirements as well as a shotgun during gun season. There might be a shotgun only restriction on some state owned lands but not private property.

I don't know what the number of bucks means but Ohio limit varies by county, from 1 to 4 of either sex.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Wisconsin used to be about half shotgun or pistol only.

then the state went rifle and oddly the Sheriffs found it was safer , fewer buildings and vehicles shot 

turns out people treat rifles like rifles , they had been convinced by the state how much safer shotguns with slugs were that people didn't treat them with the respect that they should , just because you could not hit the target at 125 yards does not mean the slug wasn't still lethal at 250.

the strait wall cartridge states are also out there , further propelling how much you can stuff in a 1.8 inch or shorter case


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## Seth

I wonder how many first time buyers purchased firearms this year.


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## Rodeo's Bud

Lots.

Our state had broke a record for background checks by August or so.


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## barnbilder

Shotgun restrictions are more of a county thing than a state thing. The places that deer hunting is actually fun are usually shotgun only, because you couldn't hit them with a rifle when hunted in such a manner, because they blow across the path at warp speed with thirty head of walkers behind them.


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## GTX63

I have an in law that lives in Illinois. No rifles there. The game warden told him the state is too flat and if you miss your rabbit that bullet will sail until it goes thru a window.
The game warden said that with a straight face too....


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## barnbilder

Some flat places you can hunt with a rifle but only from an elevated stand.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

any thing you can hit with a shot gun you could hit with a rifle with greater ease

however the new Sabot slugs make a real step in closing the gap between rifle and shotgun.

slugs still make better blood trails


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## GTX63

I had to run a couple of guys running dogs off my property this morning. I bounced my atv around in the woods long enough they knew they weren't alone. They were nice enough to move along. I sat for about 10 minutes and then put a 45 into a tree. I figured that was 40 cents to send them an instagram or 44 cents to mail them a letter.
In spite of the ammo run, it was money well spent.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

45 cents was your cost replacement cost may be more like $1.00 but not huge.

just don't be like my old boss , he would tear off on the 3 wheeler then spin circles shooting in the air with an AK like some Jihadis this was years before we even saw that behavior on the tv. trespassers never came back and probably had some interesting stories.

then he had a leak in his roof , low and behold it was a 7.62 sized leak the bullet had the energy to come down through the shingles and plywood but was caught in the insulation and never punched the drywall ceiling.


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## GTX63

Some contractors have been working on a house down the road and I guess a few of the boys decided it was bring your ***** to work day. Their dogs set off my dogs and then rifle shots got me out from behind my desk.
I have been with friends when they confronted folks who weren't were they should be and they usually treated them politely. 
I prefer to be the guy with strangers that they can't decide if I manufacture drugs and bury bodies or I'm just an old crank. 
Anyway, I drove down to the house and gave out some deer meat and acted sociable. Nice fellas who didn't know where they were.
It's Christmas and I told them I felt bad for scaring them but I'm glad I missed.


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