# Can framing lumber be air dried?



## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Is it necessary to kiln dry framing lumber or can it be air dried for a year?

Also, what species of northern trees can be used to frame a house?


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

YES it can be air dried, and nearly any species of lumber can be used if one wants,


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Thanks.

What about relative strengths of local tree species?


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

You can air dry it or frame in with it green and let it dry in place. Thats the way it was done for centuries. You just can't plaster or anything like that. after its stood for a year or so you go in and take out or straighten the lumber where appropriate. My house here was green wood framed.

Pretty much anything is fine. Houses are way over framed strength wise. the spacing is to accommodate the interior finish. Mine has a lot of poplar in it. Don't know if i would use cotton wood or anything like that. Different woods will shrink and dry differently. Probably why oak is used a lot

when i do cabinet work I always try to use air dried. better stability better color


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

If you have building codes and inspectors, it's likely that you will have to have your lumber inspected and grade stamped. If not, you're luckier than most folks.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I can't imagine trying to nail oak studs.

Good point. I'll have to find a place without framing codes.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

A tree can go from stump to studs in one day and be used for framing the next. I will not, do not. Whitewood studs may look like pretzels as they dry. I use kiln dried Doug fir....James


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

if you look at most modern lumber it is not that dry, it is "S DRY" or what that means, they only dry it down to where the surface is dried to specifications, and the interior is still wet, 


> S-DRY - What does S-DRY stand for? Acronyms and abbreviations by the Free Online Dictionary.
> 
> S-DRY Surface-Dry (lumber <=19% moisture content)


so modern lumber is not that dry, and is usually why it is not very straight, 

http://www.kentinternational.ca/brochures/Timberframe_System/Canadian_Timber_Grading.pdf


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

fishhead said:


> I can't imagine trying to nail oak studs.
> 
> Good point. I'll have to find a place without framing codes.


It's easy.... as long as the wood is green. Dry, I'd not use oak studs, maybe oak 'posts' in a post and beam. 

If your air drying, probably means you've got your wood cut locally... I'd just ask what others were using, or actually ask the bandsaw or sawmill owner to cut post and beams..... to whatever dimensions you need.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

FWIW, I've seen dozens of photos from the early 1900s of lumber air drying. However, it was ALWAYS in huge stacks, where the weight of the lumber above limited warping. If you have a few sticks of lumber and try to air dry, you might be amazed at how much it wants to twist and turn.


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## dirtman (Sep 15, 2011)

In michigan all framing lumber must be grade stamped. Framing lumber is the one thing that has never really gone out of sight price wise. I can barely believe they can cut, dry, ship and retail a 2x4x8 stud for two bucks still. I see the real problem being things like 2x10's and 2x12's which are usually junk. Checked, cracked and twisted. Nearly impossible to do decent work with. Though it is much more expensive I prefer to work with engineered studs and boards. They are straight and strong and much easier to do quality work with. When people used plaster for their interiors the framing didn't have to be as good because it could be corrected when you installed the grounds for the base coat of plaster.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

dirtman said:


> In michigan all framing lumber must be grade stamped. Framing lumber is the one thing that has never really gone out of sight price wise. I can barely believe they can cut, dry, ship and retail a 2x4x8 stud for two bucks still. I see the real problem being things like 2x10's and 2x12's which are usually junk. Checked, cracked and twisted. Nearly impossible to do decent work with. Though it is much more expensive I prefer to work with engineered studs and boards. They are straight and strong and much easier to do quality work with. When people used plaster for their interiors the framing didn't have to be as good because it could be corrected when you installed the grounds for the base coat of plaster.


Is that all of Michigan? I suppose by the time a person hires someone to grade stamp their home sawn lumber they might as well go buy it.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

fishhead said:


> Thanks.
> 
> What about relative strengths of local tree species?


Poplar and cottonwood make excellent framing lumber and I believe that you have plenty in your neck of the woods. It dries very quickly. One note though, it must be used in places that will never get wet. It will last darn near forever in a dry location but rots quickly if it gets wet.


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## woodsy (Oct 13, 2008)

Framing lumber is usually softwood, pine, spruce and fir in the north . air dry is fine.
avoid framing lumber with big knots if you can, especially on horizontal floor stringers and roof rafters.
bigger knots can make lumber weak.


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

When I built my barn in SC, I found that independent lumber yards were about 15% cheaper than the big box stores when buying in quantity. Also, the lumber was much better. I told them the 2X12's were for floor joists, and they were all perfect except one, which had a 3" crown(!). They exchanged it no problem.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Not only can you air dry framing lumber, but you often get a better quality lumber for doing so. 

Often with large lumber companies, time is money, and they rush is thru the kiln cycle, and ruin the lumber in the process. Lumber needs to be dried at a certain rate, and no faster, or the cell structure collapses and a defect called "case hardening" occurs. Ever rip a piece of lumber on a table saw and have it "pinch" closed behind the blade, to the point of binding the blade ? That is what case hardened lumber does.

Air drying lumber, it's almost impossible to case harden it, because of the slow drying time.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

This is good info.

Now I just need to find the land I want and buy a mill.

Can the spacing strips be cut and used the same day? We did that when I worked at the mill in the early 70's but I'm not sure if the customer changed that after the piles left the mill.


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## woodsy (Oct 13, 2008)

You can use green stickers for framing lumber if you don't mind some discoloration 
in the wood where the strip or sticker is placed, mildew colored gray/black. If its going to be exposed framing
or finish lumber then you would want dry stickers IMO.


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## Qhorseman (Jul 9, 2010)

texican said:


> It's easy.... as long as the wood is green. Dry, I'd not use oak studs, maybe oak 'posts' in a post and beam.
> 
> If your air drying, probably means you've got your wood cut locally... I'd just ask what others were using, or actually ask the bandsaw or sawmill owner to cut post and beams..... to whatever dimensions you need.


I have re-modeled several old houses here that were framed in oak, when we were drywalling it was drill and screw every hole.


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2012)

Fishhead,

Wadena county will issue building permits then inspect setbacks and septic systems but they don't have building codes and they don't inspect the building. MN inspects electrical wireing. I think Cass county is the same way. Hubbard and Crow Wing counties do enforce building codes and do inspections. I think. Check with the county people to be sure. Some townships have more stringent requirements than the county so check with them too. 

Gooberment keeps growing bigger and bigger and making and enforcing more and more laws. I suggest you find some land and apply for building permits as soon as possible while there are still some places that let you build mostly what you want. 

Did you see the recent news article about the homeowner in the Twin Cities that spent 2 days in jail and now has an ankel monitor because he didn't finish remodeling the siding on his house? He started the remodel and then couldn't afford to finish because the economy went south. The city forced him to finish and then decided that it wasn't good enough so they took him to court. My take, idiots with a little bit of power.

I built a chicken coop last spring. The neighbor 2 miles away has a saw mill. This is how he makes his living. I bought the 2X4s from him. They were air dried, full 2' X4", and rough sawn. He charged the same as Home Boy Depot. The only downsides were that I got splinters and the walls were too thick for standard hung windows and doors. I made the door and recycled some basement windows I had on hand so the thickness wasn't an issue. The walls havn't warped yet LOL.


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## woodsy (Oct 13, 2008)

forgot to mention hemlock for framing, sometime it can be had cheaper than other softwood species.
Best used green as it tends to split when toe nailed on the ends, heavier than other softwoods
too, green or not.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Qhorseman said:


> I have re-modeled several old houses here that were framed in oak, when we were drywalling it was drill and screw every hole.


If that's all I had, I would use it, knowing I'd drill and screw each hole.... but that's a lotta work.

I'm blessed with plenty of pine in the barns, for framing... thank goodness...


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

This house is built with locally harvested rough sawn lumber and I'm sure it wasn't kiln dried. Nothing is straight but I think that's the result of the owner/builder working with irregular wood (3 1/2" on the bottom and 4" on the top) and lack of concern.


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

I always use 1" thick narrow strips cut at the time the lumber is cut and of the same species for stickering the stacks of lumber and have never had any problems with discoloration. neighbor across the road used 100 percent poplar cut with a bandsaw mill for all his siding. He just finished painting for the second time a week ago. I would not hesitat to use `100 % bandsawn lumber building a house. I used western hemlock for myt house, 6"x12" for my house, log of course, and it was put up green. Includes floor josts, rafters and and ridge beam. No problems after 20 years.


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## spud (Feb 3, 2007)

I worked as a finish carpenter for a bit and most lumber isn't straight cause the way it was dried, it warped cause the way it was sawn. When not cut with the grain, lumber with cup, twist, crown no matter how it is dried. Go look up some books on quartersawn lumber for finish work and it is not cut for production but for workability. 

Also ballon framing works better for less dried lumber also. I'd have the lumber milled closer to standard dimensions also, much eaiser to work with stardard materials'


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

fishhead said:


> This house is built with locally harvested rough sawn lumber and I'm sure it wasn't kiln dried. Nothing is straight but I think that's the result of the owner/builder working with irregular wood (3 1/2" on the bottom and 4" on the top) and lack of concern.


Who want's a perfectly square house? I "tried" with my first one, and of course, several things are out of kilter... in the next one, I'm designing flaws (curves) into the walls, so there'll be no issue of straightness... that, and using bandsawn lumber, and not planing down to the same size (except maybe for the floor)...


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

Near here there is a family that took a few years to build their house out of "green" lumber. 
They dropped the trees (spruce and pine) in the spring, then trimmed and piled the logs in the fall. The following summer they cut the logs into lumber, stacked it and let it sit till the 3rd summer when they built the house. 
Other than being "rough" cut it was about the straightest lumber I'd even seen.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

I built my cabin with (green) black locust posts and poplar 2x6s. The board and batten is white oak 3/4" board, air dried 2 months for the most part. Later it was air dried a year or so and required a nail gun if you didn't want to spend 9/10 of the time pulling nails. I believe it is humanly impossible to drive a 16d nail in a dried hickory 2x.
a note; the 2month air dried white oak was nailed up tight as a drum. A year later, when I put up the batten boards, there were gaps up to 1/2' or more.


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