# Wearing a mask & the coronavirus



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I thought the mask protected the wearer. I was wrong. The mask is meant to be worn by the infected to protect the uninfected.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

I know it seems counter intuitive. 

The advantage for many of us here is that we don't have to be within six feet of someone coughing or sneezing unless we choose to be. But we do touch things when we shop and we don't know who touched it last.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

So why is there such a shortage of masks? No one is saying wear a mask to protect yourself.


• Frequently clean hands by using alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.

• When coughing and sneezing, cover mouth and nose with tissue. Throw tissue away immediately and wash hands.

• Avoid close contact with anyone who has fever and cough.

• If you have fever, cough, and experience difficulty in breathing, seek medical attention early and share previous travel history with your health care provider.

• When visiting live markets in areas currently experiencing cases of novel coronavirus, avoid direct unprotected contact with live animals and surfaces in contact with animals.

• Avoid the consumption of raw or undercooked animal products. Raw meat, milk, or animal organs should be handled with care, to avoid cross-contamination with uncooked foods, as per good food safety practices.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Because people are freaking out and getting them for all the wrong reasons. As I've mentioned before I have them to protect me from respiratory diseases that can reside in chicken litter. I won't/wouldn't wear one away from the house unless I've got something contagious. It's a waste of a mask I could use here at home.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Some idiot in the media probably mentioned it, and people rushed out to get them. This mess is almost entirely fueled by the media, and is way overblown in my opinion. The statistics, especially when compared to even an average flu year, the chances of serious illness/death with Covid-19 are low. Thankfully, kids are even less likely to contract it. Older people with compromised immune systems could have issues. 

The only thing I'm a bit worried about if it's true that a woman in Japan got it twice. If that's true, the rate of mutation is extremely high, and that is worrisome. This article (and several others I read) indicates it's unlikely tho. https://www.wired.com/story/did-a-woman-get-coronavirus-twice-scientists-are-skeptical/


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Some idiot in the media probably mentioned it, and people rushed out to get them. This mess is almost entirely fueled by the media, and is way overblown in my opinion. The statistics, especially when compared to even an average flu year, the chances of serious illness/death with Covid-19 are low. Thankfully, kids are even less likely to contract it. Older people with compromised immune systems could have issues.
> 
> The only thing I'm a bit worried about if it's true that a woman in Japan got it twice. If that's true, the rate of mutation is extremely high, and that is worrisome. This article (and several others I read) indicates it's unlikely tho. https://www.wired.com/story/did-a-woman-get-coronavirus-twice-scientists-are-skeptical/


I rarely get the flu, but I have had it a few times, like most people.

I know there are multiple strains of the flu.

Was it uncommon for someone to get the same flu twice before?


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Just seeing all the Chinese on TV wearing them during this outbreak was enough for people to believe they serve a purpose.

The woman in Japan may be proving something they were concerned about, that the antibodies against the virus are short lived and getting infected again was a high possibility.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

HDRider said:


> I rarely get the flu, but I have had it a few times, like most people.
> 
> I know there are multiple strains of the flu.
> 
> Was it uncommon for someone to get the same flu twice before?


No, we've actually had repeats with the strain of the current flu virus. I know of one pregnant woman that has had it twice now.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I rarely get the flu, but I have had it a few times, like most people.
> 
> I know there are multiple strains of the flu.
> 
> Was it uncommon for someone to get the same flu twice before?


Most of the time, the immune system (unless compromised) makes antibodies to combat the virus. The problem occurs when the virus mutates to the point where the antibodies the immune system generated to fight it are no longer recognize the virus. It's possible, but generally a virus won't mutate so quickly or so completely that there is no recognition from the immune system within a short amount of time.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

No one has convinced me that I shouldn't wear a mask if there is an outbreak of the virus in my area and I have to go to grocery store, drug store, etc. It can't make things worse and potentially it could protect me from the virus.

There is a worldwide shortage of masks so of course they tell us they aren't needed. Next they will be telling us we don't need a thermometer because I see on Amazon many sellers are sold out.


----------



## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

wear the mask!dont wear the mask! do this! do that.we're bombarded on all sides. nobody knows what to do anymore for the best. i have masks left over from when i looked after my friend Murray.

one thing i dont do is cough into my sleeve. i think that's the dirtiest thing i ever heard. this is only my opinion though. don't jump down my throat. everyone else do what they want to.

first time we were told that or at least the first time i heard it was when Sarrs was around. i use kleenex and dispose of it. i have several boxes of kleenex in my car also and some hand wipe. ~Georgia


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

MoonRiver said:


> No one has convinced me that I shouldn't wear a mask if there is an outbreak of the virus in my area and I have to go to grocery store, drug store, etc. It can't make things worse and potentially it could protect you from the virus.
> 
> There is a worldwide shortage of masks so of course they tell you they aren't needed. Next they will be telling us we don't need a thermometer because I see on Amazon many sellers are sold out.


High probability they're sold out because it's flu season and thermos come from China.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lots of flus









https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/types.htm


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

If it makes you feel better to wear a mask, then wear a mask. Just make sure you are wearing the proper mask for the situation.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

MoonRiver said:


> No one has convinced me that I shouldn't wear a mask if there is an outbreak of the virus in my area and I have to go to grocery store, drug store, etc. It can't make things worse and potentially it could protect you from the virus.
> 
> There is a worldwide shortage of masks so of course they tell you they aren't needed. Next they will be telling us we don't need a thermometer because I see on Amazon many sellers are sold out.


Wear a mask if it makes you feel better. 

Common sense is that flu almost always causes fever (my daughter said they have had a few patients test positive for flu without a fever). So a thermometer is a must no matter what "they" say. We have several.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

gleepish said:


> If it makes you feel better to wear a mask, than wear a mask. Just make sure you are wearing the proper mask for the situation.


First I'm going to duct tape my head with just slits for my eyes, nose, and mouth. Then I'm going to tape the mask and goggles on. Then a black hood over my head and then a welding helmet and shield over that.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Irish Pixie said:


> Wear a mask if it makes you feel better.
> 
> Common sense is that flu almost always causes fever (my daughter said they have had a few patients test positive for flu without a fever). So a thermometer is a must no matter what "they" say. We have several.


Fever, cough, shortness of breath.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I'm thinking a full body condom.
Yes I would wear it.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

MoonRiver said:


> First I'm going to duct tape my head with just slits for my eyes, nose, and mouth. Then I'm going to tape the mask and goggles on. Then a black hood over my head and then a welding helmet and shield over that.


Don't forget the welding gloves with nitrile gloves underneath.  Just teasing.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SRSLADE said:


> I'm thinking a full body condom.
> Yes I would wear it.


PICS!! There must be pics!


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> First I'm going to duct tape my head with just slits for my eyes, nose, and mouth. Then I'm going to tape the mask and goggles on. Then a black hood over my head and then a welding helmet and shield over that.


Don't forget to wrap yourself in garbage bags...


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

MoonRiver said:


> First I'm going to duct tape my head with just slits for my eyes, nose, and mouth. Then I'm going to tape the mask and goggles on. Then a black hood over my head and then a welding helmet and shield over that.


Post a pic when you're all done, please.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Irish Pixie said:


> Don't forget the welding gloves with nitrile gloves underneath.  Just teasing.


Are you? I'll bet there are those out there doing something very similar.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

MoonRiver said:


> Fever, cough, fatigue.


It's possible to have the flu without a fever. I didn't think it was possible, but my daughter (RN in hospital) states her hospital has had patients with confirmed by test flu without a fever. 

More info: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324400


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Irish Pixie said:


> It's possible to have the flu without a fever. I didn't think it was possible, but my daughter (RN in hospital) states her hospital has had patients with confirmed by test flu without a fever.
> More info: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324400


According to Dr Siegel on Fox News this morning, the symptoms of the coronavirus are shortness of breath, cough, and fever.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

MoonRiver said:


> According to Dr Siegel on Fox News this morning, the symptoms of the coronavirus are shortness of breath, cough, and fever.


OK. I was referring to general flu, as the post and link indicates.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> The mask is meant to be worn by the infected to protect the uninfected.


It's more effective at blocking the spread at the source than keeping it from getting in.
It's the same principle as how it's easier to turn off the water than it is to mop up the mess from a leak.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> According to Dr Siegel on Fox News this morning, the symptoms of the coronavirus are shortness of breath, cough, and fever.


Some can have it and show no symptoms at all.
Not everyone will react the same way.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> So why is there such a shortage of masks?


Because people are panicking and overreacting.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Some can have it and show no symptoms at all.
> Not everyone will react the same way.


If you have no symptoms, you wouldn't be thinking about going to the doctor or worried about having the coronavirus! 

If you are sick, but don't have these symptoms, chances are it's not the coronavirus. If you are sick and do have these symptoms, it might be worth getting it checked out.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Because people are panicking and overreacting.


Because China stopped all shipments of masks out of the country.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> Because China stopped all shipments of masks out of the country.


There are places that still have masks.
There would be no "shortage" without the panic.

A few months ago no one was running around frantically looking for masks.
They weren't on anyone's Christmas lists.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> If you have no symptoms, you wouldn't be thinking about going to the doctor or worried about having the coronavirus!
> 
> *If you are sick, but don't have these symptoms, chances are it's not the coronavirus.* If you are sick and do have these symptoms, it might be worth getting it checked out.


You can have the coronavirus and still have *no* symptoms.
That applies to all sorts of illnesses.
People aren't identical.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/symptoms-causes/syc-20479963
"Signs and symptoms of COVID-19 may appear two to 14 days after exposure and *can* include:

Fever
Cough
Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
*The severity of COVID-19 symptoms can range from very mild to severe*. 

People who are older or have existing medical conditions, such as heart disease, may be at higher risk of serious illness. *This is similar to what is seen with other respiratory illnesses*, such as influenza."


----------



## NewEnglandMTNcat (Jul 21, 2018)

Masks... Most people have not a clue about how to wear a mask, which means you get no benefit from wasting, er, wearing one.

I'm retired now, but I had to wear a mask for certain job functions, and we had to be "fit tested" for the type of mask we were wearing. DO NOT rely on a mask for safety. Especially if you haven't been fit tested or trained on use. 

I do have a box of masks that I bought last fall for cleaning out the chicken coop - they're like one of those brands I've been trained on back in the day.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> There are places that still have masks.
> There would be no "shortage" without the panic.
> 
> A few months ago no one was running around frantically looking for masks.
> They weren't on anyone's Christmas lists.


I've been looking for at least 6 weeks and found a total of 10 - 3 at Lowes and 4 at Harbor Freight. I don't remember where I found the other 3. They have even been sold out of non n95 masks for about a month.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You can have the coronavirus and still have *no* symptoms.
> That applies to all sorts of illnesses.
> People aren't identical.


You're beating a dead horse. If a person is not sick and doesn't have symptoms, why would they even think they have the virus?


> https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/symptoms-causes/syc-20479963
> "Signs and symptoms of COVID-19 may appear two to 14 days after exposure and *can* include:
> 
> Fever
> ...


I already listed the symptoms, twice.


----------



## NewEnglandMTNcat (Jul 21, 2018)

If they are not N-95 or better, they are also virally-useless. Okay, the placebo effect, or something. The ones I purchased last fall are N-95, and I did get them from Harbor Freight. -I still have most of them (maybe because I don't clean out the chicken coop quite enough???) I am reserving the rest for the current situation.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> You're beating a dead horse. If a person is not sick and doesn't have symptoms, *why would they even think they have the virus*?


I never said they would.
I simply pointed out the fact not everyone with the virus reacts the same.
The fact that some show no symptoms reduces the mortality rate because those cases aren't being counted.



MoonRiver said:


> I already listed the symptoms, twice.


I've seen them each time.
That still doesn't mean everyone will show those symptoms even though they have the virus.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

MoonRiver said:


> You're beating a dead horse. If a person is not sick and doesn't have symptoms, why would they even think they have the virus?


There will always be some symptoms if they have the virus, they could be so mild as not to require treatment.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> According to Dr Siegel on Fox News this morning, the symptoms of the coronavirus are shortness of breath, cough, and fever.


Everything there, except for the fever, is a side effect of my current MS medication. LOL I think I'm going to be making a LOT of people nervous over the next couple of months...


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

gleepish said:


> Everything there, except for the fever, is a side effect of my current MS medication. LOL I think I'm going to be making a LOT of people nervous over the next couple of months...


Heck, my allergies are going crazy. I'm afraid to go to town, might get burned at the stake. LOL


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Irish Pixie said:


> There will always be some symptoms if they have the virus, they could be so mild as not to require treatment.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic.html

“I don’t think there’s any question that someone who is without symptoms and carrying the virus can transmit the virus to somebody else,” said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> There will *always be some symptoms* if they have the virus


That's incorrect.
Some of the infected never show any symptoms at all.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-80-percent-cases-are-mild-2020-2

About 80% of novel coronavirus cases are mild, according to China's most comprehensive report about the outbreak published so far.
Many patients experience only a fever or dry cough, while *some show no symptoms at all.*
The new numbers, along with the fact that 322 out of 621 confirmed cases on a quarantined cruise ship involved people who showed no symptoms, suggest that many mild cases of the new coronavirus are going unreported.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's incorrect.
> Some of the infected never show any symptoms at all.


https://www.sciencealert.com/resear...smit-the-coronavirus-without-showing-symptoms


The case study is the first concrete evidence that a person showing no symptoms can pass the coronavirus to others – a fact that could make curbing the outbreak even more challenging.

The researchers behind the finding said the 20-year-old woman was isolated and closely observed at the Fifth People's Hospital of Anyang. She never become physically ill, even after her family members developed fevers. Two of them got severe pneumonia.

For now, the woman's asymptomatic transmission appears to be an anomaly, but health experts have documented other instances in which people tested positive for the virus without showing symptoms.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> For now, the woman's asymptomatic transmission appears to be an anomaly, but health experts have documented other instances in which *people tested positive for the virus without showing symptoms*.


That's pretty common with many viruses.
To claim there will "always be symptoms" is misinformation.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

New style mask.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

So, no mask.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> So, no mask.


It's an anti-virus mask.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

An editorial published Friday in the _New England Journal of Medicine_ speculated that the coronavirus currently causing panic in world markets could turn out no worse than “a severe seasonal influenza” in terms of mortality.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

MoonRiver said:


> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic.html
> 
> “I don’t think there’s any question that someone who is without symptoms and carrying the virus can transmit the virus to somebody else,” said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.


Thank you. And I made another mistake. After being enlightened regarding Dr. Fauci, and that a person can have the actual virus and show no symptoms, this could be a larger issue than previously thought.

I still don't think it's the CHTF situation that it's being made out to be, but if there are symptom-less people it could spread more quickly due to the person not knowing they're sick. This is not a serious flu, but that could change.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> An editorial published Friday in the _New England Journal of Medicine_ speculated that the coronavirus currently causing panic in world markets could turn out *no worse* than “a severe seasonal influenza” in terms of mortality.


I think if *all* the cases were being recorded they would find the actual death rate is very similar to more common strains of flu.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> An editorial published Friday in the _New England Journal of Medicine_ speculated that the coronavirus currently causing panic in world markets could turn out no worse than “a severe seasonal influenza” in terms of mortality.


I agree. The problem will be in disruption of shipping, travel, and things of that nature.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> I agree. The problem will be in disruption of shipping, travel, and things of that nature.


Why more so with this coronavirus than other flu?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> Why more so with this coronavirus than other flu?


This one seems to hit harder and faster, although most of the deaths have been older people with other health issues prior to infection, like auto-immune diseases or heart problems.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> This one seems to hit harder and faster, although most of the deaths have been older people with other health issues prior to infection, like auto-immune diseases or heart problems.


So you think the reaction has been reasonable and measured?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> So you think the reaction has been reasonable and measured?


I don't know about that.
I think there's been a lot of overreaction mixed in with some common sense measures.
I think a real quarantine could have been more effective.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I think if *all* the cases were being recorded they would find the actual death rate is very similar to more common strains of flu.


By that same rationale, not all cases of the flu are recorded either, so the data already tracks as well as it can be expected to.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> so the data already tracks as well *as it can be expected *to.


Meaning none of it is really accurate.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It is amazing to listen to what passes for news. If you can filter out the guesses, projections, polls, assumptions, and etc., the "news" would be... not much changed from yesterday to today that will impact you personally.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

If you do choose to wear a mask, make sure it doesn't get wet. It makes it less effective. I don't know if it makes it more porous or if the virus tends to cling to the mask or what, but don't let it get wet.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> If you do choose to wear a mask, make sure it doesn't get wet.


Viruses live longer in moist environments
Hot, dry conditions shorten their "lifespan" and make them less dangerous.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Viruses live longer in moist environments
> Hot, dry conditions shorten their "lifespan" and make them less dangerous.


Dip it in whiskey


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I will post this here since the other coronavirus thread disappeared.

According to Dr John Campbell, an epidemiological study indicates the attack rate, the number of people who get infected for COVID-19, predicts as many as 30% may get the virus in the 1st year. He didn't provide a reference for the study, so I can't provide it.

Someone extrapolated the death rate if 20% of population became infescted, but I will leave that for you to look up if interested.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

MoonRiver said:


> I will post this here since the other coronavirus thread disappeared.
> 
> According to Dr John Campbell, an epidemiological study indicates the attack rate, the number of people who get infected, for COVID-19 predicts as many as 30% may get the virus in the 1st year. He didn't provide a reference for the study, so I can't provide it.


Just to clarify, that is that 30% of the world's population?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> I will post this here since the other coronavirus thread disappeared.


It got bounced to "politics".

Here's some info from "Dr John Campbell":


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

That explains that.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/dr-john-campbell-5256223b
*About*

*"Nurse* currently working in A and E with a demonstrated history in Nurse Education. Skilled in pratical Nursing, Healthcare, Nursing Research, and Health and Educational research. Strong healthcare services professional with two higher degrees and several teaching qualifications. Research record focused in teaching bioscience in national and international nurse education."


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It got bounced to "politics".
> ]


gee, I wonder why.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> Some idiot in the media probably mentioned it, and people rushed out to get them. This mess is almost entirely fueled by the media, and is way overblown in my opinion. The statistics, especially when compared to even an average flu year, the chances of serious illness/death with Covid-19 are low. Thankfully, kids are even less likely to contract it. Older people with compromised immune systems could have issues.
> 
> The only thing I'm a bit worried about if it's true that a woman in Japan got it twice. If that's true, the rate of mutation is extremely high, and that is worrisome. This article (and several others I read) indicates it's unlikely tho. https://www.wired.com/story/did-a-woman-get-coronavirus-twice-scientists-are-skeptical/


I was reading an article today that it didn't have to be mutations involved but a situation where the virus infection was biphasic. Compared it to a similar situation in anthrax infection. I had never heard that term before... Anthrax, isn't that one of the ones feared in bioterrorism?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> gee, I wonder why.


Magic is the only thing I can think of, unless..........


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

light rain said:


> Anthrax, isn't that one of the ones feared in bioterrorism?


Yes, Anthrax could easily be weaponized.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

light rain said:


> I was reading an article today that it didn't have to be mutations involved but a situation where the virus infection was biphasic. Compared it to a similar situation in anthrax infection. I had never heard that term before... Anthrax, isn't that one of the ones feared in bioterrorism?


I was going to ask for a link but found one pretty easily. What disturbs me is that they're still guessing. At some point someone needs to come out with information not maybes. That's not doing anyone any good.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> gee, I wonder why.


After careful consideration, I think it may have been spambots.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I can understand stockpiling food as you might want/be required to quarantine in place for a couple of weeks. Buy why are they recommending people stock up on water? I've seen pictures of a Costco with people loading pallets of water into their vehicles.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

MoonRiver said:


> I can understand stockpiling food as you might want/be required to quarantine in place for a couple of weeks. Buy why are they recommending people stock up on water? I've seen pictures of a Costco with people loading pallets of water into their vehicles.


I was just there Friday. No more people were buying water than usual. Just like you should ignore the data out of China, you should ignore the stock footage on the news. I have been saying it since mid-January, you will soon have enough reliable information to make reasonable decisions. That information is now available. 

This virus spreads with asymptomatic or mild symptoms. It is not anymore dangerous than the flu to healthy young people. It is not terribly widespread in the U.S. yet; but, likely will be. If a high number of cases show up in your area, isolate as best as you can. If you do get a high fever.....well you decide for yourself. But, I would not go to the hospital unless I had severe breathing issues.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Hiro said:


> I was just there Friday. No more people were buying water than usual. Just like you should ignore the data out of China, you should ignore the stock footage on the news. I have been saying it since mid-January, you will soon have enough reliable information to make reasonable decisions. That information is now available.
> 
> This virus spreads with asymptomatic or mild symptoms. It is not anymore dangerous than the flu to healthy young people. It is not terribly widespread in the U.S. yet; but, likely will be. If a high number of cases show up in your area, isolate as best as you can. If you do get a high fever.....well you decide for yourself. But, I would not go to the hospital unless I had severe breathing issues.


I was at Costco on Thursday and like you, saw no run on water. 
Everything looked pretty normal.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Hiro said:


> I was just there Friday. No more people were buying water than usual. Just like you should ignore the data out of China, you should ignore the stock footage on the news. I have been saying it since mid-January, you will soon have enough reliable information to make reasonable decisions. That information is now available.
> 
> This virus spreads with asymptomatic or mild symptoms. It is not anymore dangerous than the flu to healthy young people. It is not terribly widespread in the U.S. yet; but, likely will be. If a high number of cases show up in your area, isolate as best as you can. If you do get a high fever.....well you decide for yourself. But, I would not go to the hospital unless I had severe breathing issues.


I know all that, I'm want to know why people are being urged to stock up on water. The only reason I can think of is if the virus is widespread in an area, maybe the water department will be understaffed and not able to quickly respond to problems.

Quite a few people on this board are over 60 and others have health problems. For them, this may be much more dangerous than the flu. It attacks the body differently than the flu does, plus people can be vaccinated against the flu. There is no proven anti-virals yet for treatment. 

Most hospitals are not going to be prepared for the stringent protection and isolation requirements of treating patients with a serious case of the coronavirus. I just heard that England only has about 28 beds ready for treating patients with severe symptoms. How many beds do you think your local hospital has that can provide isolation and the equipment necessary to keep a person with severe respiratory problems alive?


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

MoonRiver said:


> I know all that, I'm want to know why people are being urged to stock up on water. The only reason I can think of is if the virus is widespread in an area, maybe the water department will be understaffed and not able to quickly respond to problems.
> 
> Quite a few people on this board are over 60 and others have health problems. For them, this may be much more dangerous than the flu. It attacks the body differently than the flu does, plus people can be vaccinated against the flu. There is no proven anti-virals yet for treatment.
> 
> Most hospitals are not going to be prepared for the stringent protection and isolation requirements of treating patients with a serious case of the coronavirus. I just heard that England only has about 28 beds ready for treating patients with severe symptoms. How many beds do you think your local hospital has that can provide isolation and the equipment necessary to keep a person with severe respiratory problems alive?


ten in my local hospital. Don’t know about the other hospitals in the area but the hospital near me is one of only ten in the country with this kind of isolation unit.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

MoonRiver said:


> I know all that, I'm want to know why people are being urged to stock up on water. The only reason I can think of is if the virus is widespread in an area, maybe the water department will be understaffed and not able to quickly respond to problems.
> 
> Quite a few people on this board are over 60 and others have health problems. For them, this may be much more dangerous than the flu. It attacks the body differently than the flu does, plus people can be vaccinated against the flu. There is no proven anti-virals yet for treatment.
> 
> Most hospitals are not going to be prepared for the stringent protection and isolation requirements of treating patients with a serious case of the coronavirus. I just heard that England only has about 28 beds ready for treating patients with severe symptoms. How many beds do you think your local hospital has that can provide isolation and the equipment necessary to keep a person with severe respiratory problems alive?


Who is saying stock up on water? 

I'm one of those over 60 who wants no part of this virus. Being a widow and having to take care of everything myself and no where near wanting to leave this earth yet, nope. Keep it away from me.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

MoonRiver said:


> I know all that, I'm want to know why people are being urged to stock up on water. The only reason I can think of is if the virus is widespread in an area, maybe the water department will be understaffed and not able to quickly respond to problems.
> 
> Quite a few people on this board are over 60 and others have health problems. For them, this may be much more dangerous than the flu. It attacks the body differently than the flu does, plus people can be vaccinated against the flu. There is no proven anti-virals yet for treatment.
> 
> Most hospitals are not going to be prepared for the stringent protection and isolation requirements of treating patients with a serious case of the coronavirus. I just heard that England only has about 28 beds ready for treating patients with severe symptoms. How many beds do you think your local hospital has that can provide isolation and the equipment necessary to keep a person with severe respiratory problems alive?


My local hospital? None. They have trouble with hang nails. And we share that hospital. If you dig into the Diamond Princess, an experiment with people just to get this information, it may make you feel more or less optimistic, depending on what you want to find.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Hiro said:


> My local hospital? None. They have trouble with hang nails. And we share that hospital. If you dig into the Diamond Princess, an experiment with people just to get this information, it may make you feel more or less optimistic, depending on what you want to find.


One of our local hospitals had to go on diversion a couple years ago there was so many flu admissions.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> Buy why are they recommending people stock up on water? I've seen pictures of a Costco with people loading pallets of water into their vehicles.


If the people running the power plants and water utilities don't show up for work you may be on your own.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

robin416 said:


> I was going to ask for a link but found one pretty easily. What disturbs me is that they're still guessing. At some point someone needs to come out with information not maybes. That's not doing anyone any good.


I think they're still guessing because this is a new creature and they don't know all of it's subtle characteristics. Real accurate info on this virus may not come out for months. I imagine this makes me feel like my parents did when polio was infecting our nation's youth. I would much rather it taget my age bracket than my grandchildren...


----------



## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

Interesting interview with Minnesota Health Dept Director of Infectious Disease & a local practicing physician and Infectious Disease Specialist. This was a live interview from 2/28. 

https://www.tpt.org/coronavirus-an-almanac-special/


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Bearfootfarm said:
> 
> 
> > I think if *all* the cases were being recorded they would find the actual death rate is very similar to more common strains of flu.
> ...





Bearfootfarm said:


> Meaning none of it is really accurate.


It’s as accurate as it can be expected to be, like I said. 

Many cases of the flu never get recorded, and it is probably safe to assume that many cases of corona never get recorded. 

The data,_ of the cases that do get recorded_, says that corona appears to be more deadly. 

Since you don’t have any data to suggest that corona is detected at a much lower rate than the flu, their data is better than yours. They have actual numbers. You have “The World According to BFF”.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> It’s as accurate as it can be expected to be, *like I said*.





> Bearfootfarm said: ↑
> Meaning none of it is really accurate.





GunMonkeyIntl said:


> You have “The World According to BFF”.


According to you.


https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...d-coronavirus-testing-things-may-soon-improve
"The World Health Organization (WHO) has shipped testing kits to 57 countries. China had five commercial tests on the market 1 month ago and can now do up to 1.6 million tests a week; South Korea has tested 65,000 people so far. The U. S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), in contrast, has done only 459 tests since the epidemic began. 

The rollout of a CDC-designed test kit to state and local labs has become a fiasco because it contained a faulty reagent. Labs around the country eager to test more suspected cases—and test them faster—have been unable to do so. No commercial or state labs have the approval to use their own tests."


----------



## Robotron (Mar 25, 2012)

The part that is missing here is there is no herd immunity to this. This virus is so new to the human species none of us have fought it. This is one reason the transmissibility is so high. If it gets a solid start it will move like a wildfire through the population. All the medics can do is give supportive care and hope for the best.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Robotron said:


> All the medics can do is give supportive care and hope for the best.


Exactly.
Treating the symptoms is the only option right now.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

It won't take much. Let's say someone with the virus goes to my cardiologists office. Maybe 1/4 of the doctors and staff become infected. Now the office has difficulty keeping up with the patient load and some of the staff decide they don't want to take the risk of working in the office, making it even worse.

Now play out that scenario in any stricken community.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Honestly Moon, your imagination is running away with you


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

HDRider said:


> Honestly Moon, your imagination is running away with you


You better believe the CDC, NIH, Wall Street, and Fortune 500 companies are all running these scenarios.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I think many humans are mimicking the media’s doomsday performances.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

How about we just talk about reality instead of fortune telling? My crystal ball is dusty.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> How about we just talk about reality instead of fortune telling? My crystal ball is dusty.


That's the problem... what is the reality of infected persons within the United States? We don't know--that leaves us with our crystal balls and media doomsday.


----------



## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

Robotron said:


> The part that is missing here is there is no herd immunity to this. This virus is so new to the human species none of us have fought it. This is one reason the transmissibility is so high. If it gets a solid start it will move like a wildfire through the population. All the medics can do is give supportive care and hope for the best.


If I may add to this - I agree AND in my opinion, this issue (unlike annual flu) is shutting down countries, and has the potential to significantly disrupt supply chains and corporate earnings. So, while there is a threat of becoming ill - lots of people getting ill at the same time -- there is the threat that does not annually come with influenza of not being able to get needed meds, etc.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

If you worry and you are wrong, good surprise.
If you don't worry and you are wrong you must be counting on miracles.
Ill go with worry.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

mzgarden said:


> If I may add to this - I agree AND in my opinion, this issue (unlike annual flu) is shutting down countries, and has the potential to significantly disrupt supply chains and corporate earnings. So, while there is a threat of becoming ill - lots of people getting ill at the same time -- there is the threat that does not annually come with influenza of not being able to get needed meds, etc.


My DH did have this happen. His 90 day supply of heart meds was suddenly reduced by Walgreens to a 30 day supply. We are lucky to have a bit of a 'stash' set back, but many people wont.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

My Dad would worry if it was going to rain.

Didn't matter


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> My Dad would worry if it was going to rain.
> 
> Didn't matter


It does to the fields.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> How about we just talk about reality instead of fortune telling? My crystal ball is dusty.


It's called strategic analysis, not fortune telling.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Not what I am talking about at all. Strategic analysis is a calm thought process about what has happened. Then you make a plan. You don’t panic. You don’t worry.



SRSLADE said:


> If you don't worry and you are wrong you must be counting on miracles.
> Ill go with worry.


No, I am counting on a wise strategy and preparation. 

Worry accomplishes NOTHING.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Not what I am talking about at all. Strategic analysis is a calm thought process about what has happened. Then you make a plan. You don’t panic. You don’t worry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you think other people should prepare just as you have?
The fact that you prepare means you have concern.
I like to call it WORRY.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> It does to the fields.


Worry had no effect, and the fields never knew he worried


----------



## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I think many humans are mimicking the media’s doomsday performances.


Not me, I've been out hiking the last two days morning till night.


----------



## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

I might come down with Corona virus tonight if I get a six pack of it


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Words have definitions. Using them incorrectly is confusing to the readers. 

Being prepared is a course of action based on analysis. We have been prepared since the mid 1970s. 

Worry is to “give way to anxiety or unease; allow one's mind to dwell on difficulty or troubles.” Note that the definition doesn’t imply positive action as a result.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> You better believe the CDC, NIH, Wall Street, and Fortune 500 companies are all running these *scenarios*.


They get paid to do it.
None of it will *change* what happens to any large degree.
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best, and don't drive yourself crazy in the interim.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> It does *to the fields*.


Not at all.

It matters only to the farmer, but his worry still won't change the weather.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Not at all.
> 
> It matters only to the farmer, but his worry still won't change the weather.


When there is concern/worry a lot of people start to evaluate their options. I see a lot more irrigation systems up in our area not because its been dry the last couple of years but I believe the farmers want to be prepared in case it will be.

Worry without thoughtful action is a waste of time but worry/concern with a followup plan implemented seems productive and common sense. I guess I just was overly influenced by the Little Red Hen story in my youth a long time ago...


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

light rain said:


> Worry without thoughtful action is a waste of time but worry/concern with a followup plan implemented seems productive and common sense.


I don't consider that "worry".
I see it as simply solving a problem.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I don't consider that "worry".
> I see it as simply solving a problem.


Semantics...


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

light rain said:


> Semantics...


Yes.
Words have precise meanings.

WORRY:
VERB

give way to anxiety or unease; allow one's mind to dwell on difficulty or troubles.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Yes.
> Words have precise meanings.
> 
> WORRY:
> ...



I will do more research into the meanings of the word worry. I still believe it to be a useful tool to extends one's lifespan if it induces action... Good enough???


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

light rain said:


> I still believe it to be a useful tool to extends one's lifespan if it induces action... Good enough???


You can *believe* anything you like.
The word's meanings won't change. 

Here are some more:
NOUN

a state of *anxiety and uncertainty* over actual or potential problems.
*worry verb (PROBLEM)*
[ I ]
to think about problems or unpleasant things that might happen in a way that makes you feel unhappy and frightened:


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Not what I am talking about at all. Strategic analysis is a calm thought process about what has happened. Then you make a plan. You don’t panic. You don’t worry.
> No, I am counting on a wise strategy and preparation.
> Worry accomplishes NOTHING.


It's not worrying. It's taking all possibilities into account. What you consider low possibility and what I consider low possibility are not necessarily the same; but to make that decision, one first has to recognize that it is possible.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

light rain said:


> When there is concern/worry a lot of people start to evaluate their options. I see a lot more irrigation systems up in our area not because its been dry the last couple of years but I believe the farmers want to be prepared in case it will be.
> 
> Worry without thoughtful action is a waste of time but worry/concern with a followup plan implemented seems productive and common sense. I guess I just was overly influenced by the Little Red Hen story in my youth a long time ago...


I like your story I see it like the hen that planted corn.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

SRSLADE said:


> I like your story I see it like the hen that planted corn.


There are many renditions of this story but the one I was referring to involved wheat.
I couldn't remember all the particulars so I did a little research. The original was printed in the 1880's. 
Now I want to buy three copies, one for each of our grandchildren and one for myself.


----------



## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Will someone hurry up and post the Mad Magazine boy's picture. Just for stress relief, you know...….

geo


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)




----------



## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Thanks, BFF, I was afraid I would post the one with the orange hair and get this thread shut down.



geo.


----------



## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

FYI, Kalamazoo hasn't seen any panic yet, Meijer store is still well stocked and they are putting up displays of hand sanitizer., wipes, toilet paper--all fresh stock. Bread, beer shelves are okay.

And, the Sporting Goods rearrangement is complete. Three locked cases now. Shotgun ammo, handgun and rifle ammo, and knives are locked up in glass cases, you have to get a clerk to open them.

Couldn't find any masks. I'm thinking of buying up some 500 threadcount bedsheets, making masks, and selling them on Ebay. I could become a millionaire.



geo


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

geo in mi said:


> I was afraid I would post the one with the orange hair


Speak of the Orange One you do not.
Dark Side if do you will go.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I was checking the weather and there was an add for facemasks. I don't know anything else about the company or the masks.

Just remembered, not supposed to post commercial links. I found the ad on accuweather site.


----------



## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

When I served in Japan the whole world seemed to be wearing masks on cold and damp mornings. I think part of that was to keep the face warm . I did hear some raido personality say that the charcoal masks used by painters and people who work in contaminated areas would protect from the flu.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> Just remembered, not supposed to post commercial links.


You can't post commercial links for your *own* sites.


----------



## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

that's what my son told me also . the charcoal masks he wears will protect him. i thought he was just saying it to reassure me ~Georgia


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I saw on TV workers disinfecting the NYC subway. No masks, no eye protection.


----------



## WolfBrother (Sep 22, 2003)

HDRider said:


> I thought the mask protected the wearer. I was wrong. The mask is meant to be worn by the infected to protect the uninfected.


It does in a round about way. It helps keep your dirty hands from touching your face. Add goggles/glasses and you can't as easily unconsciously surface vector spread it to yourself.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

CDC in reference to masks for flu. I imagine the guidelines are the same for the virus.

*"Unvaccinated Asymptomatic Persons, Including Those at High Risk for Influenza Complications*
No recommendation can be made at this time for mask use in the community by asymptomatic persons, including those at high risk for complications, to prevent exposure to influenza viruses. If unvaccinated high-risk persons decide to wear masks during periods of increased respiratory illness activity in the community, it is likely they will need to wear them any time they are in a public place and when they are around other household members."


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I watched a video on how to properly use a mask.

Wash hands
Put on mask
Pinch nose clip and make sure mask is properly sealed.

Wash hands
Remove mask using bands, not cloth part of mask
dispose of mask
wash hands
I can see why CDC thinks it is too difficult to trust US citizens with a mask!


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> I can see why CDC thinks it is too difficult to trust US citizens with a mask!


People wouldn't follow those instructions, and would be constantly touching their faces to adjust the masks. It will increase the risk of infection. There's only one mask that will help:


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Bearfootfarm said:


> People wouldn't follow those instructions, and would be constantly touching their faces to adjust the masks. It will increase the risk of infection. There's only one mask that will help:
> View attachment 84420


----------



## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

I try not to leave home much, but then there's the mail and package delivery...which move through the system faster than the virus is said to survive on surfaces...so anyone been taking precautions with handling them?


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

mamagoose said:


> I try not to leave home much, but then there's the mail and package delivery...which move through the system faster than the virus is said to survive on surfaces...so anyone been taking precautions with handling them?


I haven't yet, but wondering if a good shot of Lysol might do the job.


----------



## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i did that last night around 11pm. not much chance of anyone seeing me and thinking i'm nuts.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

mamagoose said:


> I try not to leave home much, but then there's the mail and package delivery...which move through the system faster than the virus is said to survive on surfaces...so anyone been taking precautions with handling them?


We haven't been with daily mail (which is probably completely dumb not to do) but we do have a package coming in from India (didn't know that was where it was shipping from at the time of order) that we plan to leave out in the garage for a month or so. Luckily it's bedding and not needed right away. If you are worried about your daily mail, wear gloves when you take it out of the mailbox--and then I think a nice spray of lysol and then waiting an hour would probably be enough.


----------



## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> It is amazing to listen to what passes for news. If you can filter out the guesses, projections, polls, assumptions, and etc., the "news" would be... not much changed from yesterday to today that will impact you personally.


Well, I dunno Alice. Since you wrote this on Saturday and I'm writing on Friday, 6 days later, I think it is impacting me on a few ways I don't like. The inability to get a few products normally buy as needed and I have run out of is frustrating due to panic buying. The fact that I found myself buying extra items, items that I normally by, but not in quantity, due to the fact that I'm afraid that when I do need them, there won't be any due to supply chain disruption, is dismaying.

ON a positive note, I hope this "scare" hits home about how interdependent the US is on other countries - namely China. Long term, it would be nice if this scare would bring back some more manufacturing to the US. On another note about China, It'd be great if people realize that although China is equal to the US in some things, it is still a third world country for many of it's people and the virus has brought out that you can't really trust what their government says.


----------



## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

gleepish said:


> We haven't been with daily mail (which is probably completely dumb not to do) but we do have a package coming in from India (didn't know that was where it was shipping from at the time of order) that we plan to leave out in the garage for a month or so. Luckily it's bedding and not needed right away. If you are worried about your daily mail, wear gloves when you take it out of the mailbox--and then I think a nice spray of lysol and then waiting an hour would probably be enough.


DH 'instructed' me weeks ago to make sure my ebay items aren't coming directly from overseas, even tho I had already figured that one out. With the spread widening, I think I've handled my last piece of mail and box without taking precautions...like opening them outside (I already use Walmart boxes for some of my birds to poop on --had a run-in with the walmart photo center in Dec makes me despise the co so those usually go right back out anyhow) and I'm going to set aside a pair of gloves in a disposable box just for that (on my list for today)...then of course, scrub my hands. Once envelopes are opened, the paper contents are more often machine handled, so the risk of surface contamination is probably way less. We've also been discussing making our own reusable face masks (boiling?), as we don't have many on hand and DH wears them around hay and I wear them in one of the drier coops w/excitable birds ('cause they know I'm bringing them scratch grain!).


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> I haven't yet, but wondering if a good shot of Lysol might do the job.


15 minutes at 135° F will kill the virus.


----------



## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

Oxankle said:


> When I served in Japan the whole world seemed to be wearing masks on cold and damp mornings. I think part of that was to keep the face warm . I did hear some raido personality say that the charcoal masks used by painters and people who work in contaminated areas would protect from the flu.


I've been to Maui twice in past 10 years and so many of the Japanese tourists did there.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Wolf mom said:


> Well, I dunno Alice. Since you wrote this on Saturday and I'm writing on Friday, 6 days later, I think it is impacting me on a few ways I don't like. The inability to get a few products normally buy as needed and I have run out of is frustrating due to panic buying. The fact that I found myself buying extra items, items that I normally by, but not in quantity, due to the fact that I'm afraid that when I do need them, there won't be any due to supply chain disruption, is dismaying.
> 
> ON a positive note, I hope this "scare" hits home about how interdependent the US is on other countries - namely China. Long term, it would be nice if this scare would bring back some more manufacturing to the US. On another note about China, It'd be great if people realize that although China is equal to the US in some things, it is still a third world country for many of it's people and the virus has brought out that you can't really trust what their government says.


China is not equal to us in anything.

They are a third world giant, governed by thugs, and self interested bureaucrats, and put little to any value on human life, or honesty.

China sucks.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> China is not equal to us in anything.
> 
> They are a third world giant, governed by thugs, and self intrested bureaucrats, and put little to any value on hi man life, or honesty.
> 
> China sucks.


Sounds like many country's.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/wuhan-coronavirus-mask


> *Why a mask won't protect you from the Wuhan coronavirus*
> *The masks don't give a hermetic seal, so very small drops of the virus suspended in the air can still get through*


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/wuhan-coronavirus-mask


While I was in town today, searching for the elusive toilet paper that seems to be the most important thing on stupid people's stockpiling list, I watched a woman using her trusty SARS mask while doing her grocery shopping. 

I laughed loud enough to offend her when she pulled down her mask, helped herself to the grapes and when she was done with her buffet, she simply slid her fingers that has been on her cart and in the grapes, inside her mask and pulled it back up again.

I ended up in line with our local pharmacist and we discussed shortages in town, including the fact that people from Calgary are coming out and buying, toilet paper, masks, gloves and hand sanitizer, which was leaving our shut in residents and home care workers vunlerable and all the aforementioned items are not held behind her counter and she's selling to locals only.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

wr said:


> I ended up in line with our local pharmacist and we discussed shortages in town, including the fact that people from Calgary are coming out and buying, toilet paper, masks, gloves and hand sanitizer, which was leaving our shut in residents and home care workers vunlerable and all the aforementioned items are not held behind her counter and she's selling to locals only.


We are our own worst enemies it seems.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> We are our own worst enemies it seems.


The only people who made any logical sense to stockpile toilet paper was the local hutterite colonies and they bought an entire semi load that came into Costco and it's done annually. 

Each colony is self supporting and consists of about 125 members and they each keep at more than a year supply of food, staples, fabric and non essentials like candy. Their equipment shops keep more parts than the JD dealiership, each colony has more than ample fuel supplies, they certainly mill some of their grain but most grain and hay is intended to feed large poultry flocks, sheep, dairy and beef cattle.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

communist.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Bearfootfarm said:


> We are our own worst enemies it seems.


Not really. There is no reason you can't buy all the available toilet paper up and resell it to your local nursing homes, hospitals and day care centers, at a nominal markup or course.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

*Is Stockpiling Food Illegal in the United States?*
crisisequipped.com › is-stockpiling-food-illegal-in-the-united-states
Aug 12, 2018 - Several presidents have signed executive orders which will override any ... Hoarding during this time can be deemed illegal. Under a state of emergency, the government might exercise its right to confiscate ... The governor of a state can also issue a martial law decree within the boundaries of their state or ...

This goes way beyond food. Fun to read.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

GTX63 said:


> Not really. There is no reason you can't buy all the available toilet paper up and resell it to your local nursing homes, hospitals and day care centers, at a nominal markup or course.


I wondered where it was all going and checked kijiji yesterday. It seems folks are buying as much as they can and selling between $5 and $50 a roll, except for the woman who was making a trip out of town and would sell a package for five times the retail rate, to cover her expenses, of course.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

United States. In the United States, state laws against *price gouging* have been held as constitutional at the state level as a valid exercise of the police power to preserve order during an emergency, and may be combined with anti-hoarding measures. As of January 2019, 34 states have laws against *price*-*gouging*.

*Price gouging - Wikipedia*


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

SRSLADE said:


> communist.


The hutterites are communist?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Hutterites are a ethno-religious group similar to Amish.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterites


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

wr said:


> I wondered where it was all going and checked kijiji yesterday. It seems folks are buying as much as they can and selling between $5 and $50 a roll, except for the woman who was making a trip out of town and would sell a package for five times the retail rate, to cover her expenses, of course.


A couple of military buddies used and use baby wipes since coming back from the deserts. Toilet paper cannot be found inside their homes.


----------

