# Solar prices coming DOWN! Cool!



## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Lets hear it for the recession...
-------------------------------------------

http://www.digtriad.com/news/specials/getgreen/article.aspx?storyid=117454&catid=223

Prices for rooftop solar systems, including installation, already have fallen 8% to 10% since October and are expected to drop another 15% to 20% this year.

Fueling the trend are an oversupply of worldwide manufacturing capacity and lower demand.........

For U.S. homeowners, effective prices are likely to plunge by more than 50% after figuring in a bigger federal tax credit that took effect Jan. 1.

New Energy projects an oversupply of nearly 4 gigawatts of solar modules in 2009, or enough electricity to supply 2.6 million homes.

wholesale prices have fallen about 15% since October.... installation accounts for about half the cost of a system, total costs are down about 8%. SunPower expects its retail prices for installed systems to dip as much as 20% this year.

In California, which accounts for nearly 70% of the U.S. solar market, *a typical 4-kilowatt, $32,000 solar energy system cost a homeowner about $23,000 last year after state and federal incentives. This year, if prices sink as expected, that system is likely to cost $10,000 to $12,000.*

................:rock:


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Jim-mi,is this true?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Wow!! Usually it takes new technology to force a drop that extreme in existing hardware. Good news!


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Haven't seen figures quite that 'big'..... yet................
But . . All the added players in the PV manufacturing end are going to help put a nice drop in PV's.
Talk and press releases are cheap, but when and if all these new thin film players -truely- get their lines debugged and up to speed . . . . . .Yes it will be a smile-ly day for the end consumer.
The Evergreen product line (ribbon) is expanding big time, and most all the product is all ready presold !!!

Glad I didn't wait for the drop . . . as I type this my 2k of PV is really working. . . .smile . . . (Finely got a sunny day)
What is it powering ? Fridge, freezer's (2), 6oo watt resistance heater, furnace, bread maker, washing machine, puter etc.

And like booboo likes to quote "Na it will never work" . .lol


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Jim-mi said:


> Glad I didn't wait for the drop . . . as I type this my 2k of PV is really working. . . .smile . . . (Finely got a sunny day)
> What is it powering ? Fridge, freezer's (2), 6oo watt resistance heater, furnace, bread maker, washing machine, puter etc.
> 
> And like booboo likes to quote "Na it will never work" . .lol


Yep,thats got to put a BIG smile  on your face for sure! My Bud offgrid is always telling me he just SMILES  every time he looks at his 1000 watt system and doesnt regret buying recently (last year) either.

He runs lights,TV and Sundanzer freezer with his.Even with the bad weather he hasnt had to run his genny yet this winter.......


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## kendall j (Mar 30, 2007)

With all this talk of lower prices, what would be some good websites to look at for solar products?

Kendall


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

kendall j said:


> With all this talk of lower prices, what would be some good websites to look at for solar products?
> 
> Kendall


Shipping can be high,so I wont put my Calif. link as it wouldnt really help you.I'd sure look local.

Bud got the best price on 'net,took to his local dealer and asked for a price match.And got it. Cool.Kept his local dealer in business so a good deal for both I think.


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## BobDFL (Jul 7, 2006)

I sure hope this is true, I got a quote (after state and federal rebates and credits) of $25,000 for a system for my new house. 

Since I only spend $2000 in electric a year (actually it may be lower since my bill was half what I expected for the last 3 months), my payback was in like 13 years and the sales guy said that thanks to our tropical weather (Depressions, Storms, and Hurricanes here in FL.) the life expectancy for the panels was only 10 years. So I would never get them to pay for themselves.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

BobDFL may I suggest you put that guys phone number in the bottom left hand drawer--in the back--- of your desk.
Keep looking for somebody better than that.

Some mannus warrant PV panels for 25 years. 

"Looking for an on line source" . . . . .I would Never recommend any on line "store" to get PV panels.

Lets just say.......Buyer Beware. 

One good reputable company is www.backwoodssolar.com
They have been in business for many years.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

I've heard that the old systems will be obsolete soon. They may be trying to get rid of them before the new ones hit the market. The new ones are suppose to be much smaller, easy to install, and produce more power. 

They are now competing with wind power, and many other inventions. Prices will have to come down if they are to stay competitive. 

In the near future we might have a variety of choices for alternative power, and hopefully some of them will be affordable.

One of the things I'm watching is the new MYT engine. I've talked with the inventor and it works great, they are working now to open shops across the country and do conversions in used cars. I hope it'll be on the market very soon. It gets an unbelievable 150 mpg using diesel fuel!


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## artificer (Feb 26, 2007)

Spinner said:


> One of the things I'm watching is the new MYT engine. I've talked with the inventor and it works great, they are working now to open shops across the country and do conversions in used cars. I hope it'll be on the market very soon. It gets an unbelievable 150 mpg using diesel fuel!


What kind of car was was the engine in? Any modern car, even a Honda Insight would require the engine to be either tiny/low hp, or 3 times as efficient to get that mileage. Since diesels are already 30% efficient, I can't see how this engine is going to work.

Any time I see the claims that a new engine is going to revolutionize the automotive industry, and I haven't seen a real running engine itself, I've been disappointed. I'd say its been at least a dozen or more engines in the past. The wankel was the closest to succeeding, but its still somewhat limited in use.

How much for the engine? When can I buy one? When can I get my car converted, and for how much?

Michael


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

As long as we are a bit OT here,Im watching a program that says Calif. is getting 12% of our power from renewable energy. Now I think that is pretty amazing!

Truth be told I never thought I'd see that much in my lifetime.

We are making progress even though I Know...."It'll NEVER work" LOL!


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

> =BobDFL;3570484 my payback was in like 13 years and the sales guy said that thanks to our tropical weather (Depressions, Storms, and Hurricanes here in FL.) the life expectancy for the panels was only 10 years. So I would never get them to pay for themselves.


So many folks bought the first panels ever produced and they are still running.Short of a hurricane sending them to Oz I think a 13 year payback is excellent and they will probably outlast you.

I think one of,if not THE best quality product I own are my monocrystalline BP panels.The build quality and materials are excellent.Mine are 10 years old and look brand new,and still perform at rated output.

They are truly quality items.But only buy the the good ones,there is no bargain in a bargain priced panel.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

artificer said:


> What kind of car was was the engine in? Any modern car, even a Honda Insight would require the engine to be either tiny/low hp, or 3 times as efficient to get that mileage. Since diesels are already 30% efficient, I can't see how this engine is going to work.
> 
> Any time I see the claims that a new engine is going to revolutionize the automotive industry, and I haven't seen a real running engine itself, I've been disappointed. I'd say its been at least a dozen or more engines in the past. The wankel was the closest to succeeding, but its still somewhat limited in use.
> 
> ...


http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/05/27/transportation-tuesday-vws-235mpg-concept-coming-soon/

*Volkswagen seems to be taking this task seriously with the 1L, a prototype that is capable of traveling for 235mpg using 1 gallon of gasoline, or 100km on 1L of gas.* Adding to the excitement of this breakthrough is recent news that VW plans to get this concept out to market in 2010!


The 1L is a lightweight two person vehicle made out of a magnesium frame covered by an unpainted carbon fiber skin. Every component of the vehicle is intended to reduce the vehicles weight. Aluminum brakes, carbon fiber wheels, titanium hubs, and ceramic bearings all contribute to the vehicleâs light weight of a mere 290 kg................. 

The car is extremely fuel efficient, each gallon of fuel will take you over 235 miles. The fuel tank holds just 1.7 gallons, making the entire travel distance capability about 400 miles per tank. Itâs top speed is 120 km/h (75mph), which although isnât too fast is a welcome trade off for the huge savings in gas consumption............VW boss confirms 1-Liter car for 2010...........
---------------------------------
BooBoo <----------- " You know what Im going to say...."


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Spinner I have no idea where you got that info about >obsolete< . . . . but it just is not true.
New ones being smaller is also not correct.
The thin film units take more area per watt than the very tried and proven crystal panels.

More than a few of us have a few PV panels that are more than 25 years old . . and still going strong.
I'll be ----ed if I'll *scrap* them because some one comes along and says that they are obsolete.

Sorry but I just don't want someone reading thru here to go away thinking that PV is is anything like computers-------Great today . . . .Obsolete next month.


my not so humble $0.03003


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## mikellmikell (Nov 9, 2005)

Evergreen solar is building another plant in Midland MI but I'm not sure if it's open yet.

mikell


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## keyhole (Dec 2, 2008)

I sure wish I would have known this info last week!!!!

Last Friday I ordered 10 each, 200 watt panels. Well I'll be able to upgrade my system even more when the prices go down!!!:rotfl:

Sure wish I had foresight instead of hindsight!!!!!!!!


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

keyhole said:


> I sure wish I would have known this info last week!!!!
> 
> Last Friday I ordered 10 each, 200 watt panels. Well I'll be able to upgrade my system even more when the prices go down!!!
> 
> Sure wish I had foresight instead of hindsight!!!!!!!!


Nope,have ZERO regrets.Just because we have deflation NOW doesnt mean inflation can be ruled out.You may have been waiting as the price soars,there's no telling where this economy finally goes.

You WILL  every time you look at those panels,I dont care what you paid for them.

Congrats on the new panels!:bouncy:


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

I think Spinner is referring to some of the experimental panels they are working on.

But if we have learned one thing price reductions have been a long time coming and likely will be a good while before the new tech makes it mainstream.

Even at that it will never make your working panels obsolete.

But I admit I look forward to it and find the new technologies we will see eventually very exciting.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

mightybooboo said:


> I think Spinner is referring to some of the experimental panels they are working on.
> 
> But if we have learned one thing price reductions have been a long time coming and likely will be a good while before the new tech makes it mainstream.
> 
> ...


Yes, I should have explained my position better. I didn't mean to imply that the older panels would not be good. They will still be a great investment. 

What I was trying to say is that when the newer, smaller, higher output ones come on the market, the prices of the older styles will drop. Many companies will run sales to sell them out instead of keeping them in stock. 

I've seen a show about some new kind of spray on solar stuff that can be sprayed onto rooftops to turn them into solar panels. When things like that are on the market, the demand for older/larger panels will drop, thereby lowering the price of them. basically making them obsolete, but still good workable units. The current sales may be an indicator that something new may be coming on the market very soon, or it might just be caused by the current economic downturn.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

That one technology is a "ink" applied in different ways.

Sounds like a 'good thing' . . . .but . . . . .a big bunch of us are waiting for product to have "in hand" to use for customers systems.

That inflation--deflation thing is a hot potato..................

Whats ahead . . .?????????????????????


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Oh ya . . And kudos to you keyhole for jumping in............

All the while this economic disaster is playing out you can go look at your meters and smile big time as your--don't wait for that gigantic price reduction---panels are producing many many KWH's of power.

Good for you.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Jim-mi said:


> Haven't seen figures quite that 'big'..... yet................
> But . . All the added players in the PV manufacturing end are going to help put a nice drop in PV's.
> Talk and press releases are cheap, but when and if all these new thin film players -truely- get their lines debugged and up to speed . . . . . .Yes it will be a smile-ly day for the end consumer.
> The Evergreen product line (ribbon) is expanding big time, and most all the product is all ready presold !!!
> ...


 I hope I can get some more of those evergreen panels soon! Last summer, when I actually had money and a good job, the distributor said they were completely sold out and not available! 
My panels are completely covered with 8" of snow today, hopefully it melts off soon, its a nice sunny arctic high pressure day! Perfect for harvesting a few rays off the good old sun. Think i need to rig up a long handled brush to clean them off... roof is a little too steep to get up there today...


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

greg273 said:


> Think i need to rig up a long handled brush to clean them off... roof is a little too steep to get up there today...


Good point.In snow areas you want panels where you can reach them IMO.Same with your sat dish.


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

That's one reason that my last array of PVs are 200+ feet from the house, on a ground mount with adjustable angle. We made a longer handle for a soft push broom and can use that easily to brush off snow. A light snow or thin ice will melt surprisingly fast once the sun comes out, as long as some of the panels is exposed.

And as far as new technology making a large drop in prices, I have been waiting for this to happen for over 25 years. My old Sovonics thin-film modules worked fine for a few years and then the output tapered off to almost nothing. They were cheap but a waste of money. I'm sticking with crystalline cell modules until something comes along cheap enough that I can buy them as an experiment, and I'm not holding my breath. The gradual drop in PV prices as production catches up with demand (if it does) will probably end up meaning an increase in demand again, especially with the extension of tax benefits for renewables.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

If I had a nickle for evey time I've heard the claim that "PV will be down to $1 a watt within 5 years" I could be like Ed Beckley and wouldn't have to worry about the cost of a solar system.

Believe it when I see it. Cost maybe comming down but not that much.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

mightybooboo said:


> Good point.In snow areas you want panels where you can reach them IMO.Same with your sat dish.


 I've had panels on the roof since 04, and noticed that they are usually snow and ice free the next day after a snow... I guess those stray electrical currents and light absorbing surface, not to mention the obvious fact that they face south, contribute to the rapid melt of ice off them. Still, it would be nice to be able to remove the ice sooner in the morning after the snow. Around here, thankfully, a heavy snowfall event is more often than not followed by a clear sunny day. But if I lived at any elevation that kept snow all winter, I'd definitely want to be able to reach the panels easily.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Checked on the Evergreen panels today, called Northern Arizona Wind and Sun, they could get them and they retailed for $915 for the ES-205s (205 watts, 24 volts). They said the Kyoceras are more popular due to lower price, but I'd rather buy American again if at all possible.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I use a very soft brush with a 8' handle to barely reach the top of my pole mounted arrays.
There is way too much snow fall in my neck of the woods to never even consider putting arrays up on a roof.

Evergreen is a very good product that will be producing for oh so many years to come...........

Thin film.........I need product..........not more press releases......

--tho in defence of my own array of UniSolars (thin film). . . .wish I had more than I do (8--64's) . . .they really produce.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Glad to hear your Unisolars are doing well.They are HUGELY popular in Australia since heat doesnt hurt output.

Also heard a bullet through em and they keep working.

Im a mono-crystalline fan too,I like the PROVEN design,but I would consider those Unisolars.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

greg273 said:


> Checked on the Evergreen panels today, called Northern Arizona Wind and Sun, they could get them and they retailed for $915 for the ES-205s (205 watts, 24 volts). They said the Kyoceras are more popular due to lower price, but I'd rather buy American again if at all possible.


BIL is pure Kyocera panel system.Never a hiccup,they are *quality* for sure.Agree,buy American if possible IMO.


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## keyhole (Dec 2, 2008)

My panels arrived last thursday and I am about to start building the rack system for them. Before I get started I have a few questions for the gurus on here.

#1. I have 10 each 200 watt panels. How many batteries do I need to purchase?

#2. What kind of batteries should I buy?

I'm new to this but I am able to read the writing on the wall!!! So any help is greatly appreciated.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

keyhole said:


> My panels arrived last thursday and I am about to start building the rack system for them. Before I get started I have a few questions for the gurus on here.
> 
> #1. I have 10 each 200 watt panels. How many batteries do I need to purchase?
> 
> ...



1. How much power (watt hours) will you use in day? What voltage do you plan on running?

Here's a link to the basic calculations for system sizing on another forum I frequent:

http://www.solarpowerforum.net/forumVB/showthread.php?t=1793

2. Something that large I'd look at Surretttes or Sun-Extenders if you want AGM's. I also wouldn't consider anything other than an MPPT charge controller.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Maybe prices really are coming down? I saw some for 3.42/watt on craigslist,and somebody had a smaller used Arco for 2 dollars a watt. I havent seen prices like that for a couple years personally.

Something to be said for a crummy economy I guess...

..........:happy:


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

If you live in hurricane country it would be wise to make plywood panels to cover your solar panels on threat of bad weather. Cheap insurance.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

I saw older 22 watt ArcoSolar panels for 40 dollars on craigslist.Werent the old browned out ones either.Claimed tested and putting out rated output.


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## o&itw (Dec 19, 2008)

Spinner said:


> I've heard that the old systems will be obsolete soon. They may be trying to get rid of them before the new ones hit the market. The new ones are suppose to be much smaller, easy to install, and produce more power.
> 
> They are now competing with wind power, and many other inventions. Prices will have to come down if they are to stay competitive.
> 
> ...


It sounds good...but all the news is three years old.

One would think that they would have the bugs worked out by now if it was feasible.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

How about this deal on craigslist?In Redding,northern Calif....1520 watts for 3600 dollars or 2.37/watt!
----------------------------------
BP 595UL Solar Panels - $225 (redding)
Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]
Date: 2009-03-30, 4:02PM PDT

I have a total of 16 BP Solar panels, these are used panels is great condition, they operate at full specs, 18.0 volts at 4.72 amps. I am upgrading my home solar system with 200 watt panels, and am selling these. at $225.00 each. you can call for additional info if you like










karl hoyer
530 275 1421
[email protected]




* Location: redding
* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

PostingID: 1099771244


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## Pritch (Feb 21, 2009)

Hi everybody. This is my first post but I've been skulking around in the shadows for quite some time. I saw this deal on eBay and thought you all might be interested. Pallet of Six 205 Watt Solar Panels $2.60 Per Watt They are in Florida but will ship for $210. Seems like an awesome deal. 

-- Pritch


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

booboo I hope your going to jump on that one.................


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Jim-mi said:


> booboo I hope your going to jump on that one.................


I just got back to work,and YES,we will be jumping for sure.Luckily for me Mrs. is completely onboard for this too,she also loves these prices!

So maybe not this one,but Im seeing around 2 dollars a watt left and right,AWESOME prices and an opportunity nobody should be missing.

BTW,those are the same panels we have on Motorhome,only 75 watters.They still look brand new,and perform as brand new,they are REALLY nice panels.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

wy_white_wolf said:


> If I had a nickel for every time I've heard the claim that "PV will be down to $1 a watt within 5 years" I could be like Ed Beckley and wouldn't have to worry about the cost of a solar system.
> 
> Believe it when I see it. Cost maybe coming down but not that much.


Looks like its really been brought down in the real world!
-------------------------------------------------
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...973-F7FF-42A6-8F59-92D75499295A}&siteid=yhoof


Analysts at Wedbush Morgan Securities raised their 2009 earnings estimate for First Solar to $7.06 a share from $6.37 a share.
The company continues its cost leadership position and remains *on target to reach 65 cents per watt by 2012, down from 93 cents per watt now*, analysts noted............

"Given its low cost strategy, non-polysilicon dependent product (commercial glass) and niche market targeted at utilities, we believe the company can remain competitive in the current environment where* (prices) are dropping rapidly due to over supply of modules and poly players deal with rapid decline in poly prices,*" they said.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

I finally went and bought 4 new Evergreen panels... found them on the internet via the Google product search, otherwise known as 'Froogle'... they are the 'B grade' modules with 'slight cosmetic imperfections', but backed by the full manufacturers warranty. They were also $300 per panel cheaper than the standard ones. I paid $620 for each one, about $3 a watt.
Well I didnt know what to expect, but apon their arrival, I could barely discern ANYTHING wrong with them at all. Maybe a scratch or two on the aluminum frames, but other than that, they seem to be in near perfect condition. All in all, it seems I got a great deal on these panels. Glad I shopped around, I was resigned to paying $900+ apiece for these. Guess I could have waited for prices to fall, but I'm really desperate for the extra electricity now.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Look what I just missed,I was caller number TWO,line was busy with the first guy when I called.Hey,if there is an earthquake and guy gets squashed he will call me and I'll race down there,but doesnt look likely....:Bawling:
--------------------
solar electric panels - $80 (Vista)
Date: 2009-05-03, 4:18PM PDT

4, 72 watt, 17 volt. Good for sail boat, recreational vehicle, camping, cabin, etc.. $80.00 ea.. 760 945 9161



* Location: Vista


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

greg273 said:


> I finally went and bought 4 new Evergreen panels... found them on the internet via the Google product search, otherwise known as 'Froogle'... they are the 'B grade' modules with 'slight cosmetic imperfections', but backed by the full manufacturers warranty. They were also $300 per panel cheaper than the standard ones. I paid $620 for each one, about $3 a watt.
> Well I didnt know what to expect, but apon their arrival, I could barely discern ANYTHING wrong with them at all. Maybe a scratch or two on the aluminum frames, but other than that, they seem to be in near perfect condition. All in all, it seems I got a great deal on these panels. Glad I shopped around, I was resigned to paying $900+ apiece for these. Guess I could have waited for prices to fall, but I'm really desperate for the extra electricity now.


Sounds real good Greg,enjoy those panels for sure!


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

GOT IT! 1 dollar/watt!

She's a beauty too,picture doesnt do it justice.
--------------------------------------------
Siemons sm55 solar panel - $55 (Indio)

Date: 2009-05-08, 11:33AM PDT


This panel measures 51 inches by 13 inches,Is 17.4 volt,55 watts...used
Please call:
* Location: Indio


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Another person losing their home,can you believe that price!!!!! What a grid tied system,WOW! Thats 30,000 worth of panels alone!
----------------------------
Solar System - $7000 (Palm Springs, Ca.)
Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]
Date: 2009-05-14, 12:20AM PDT


SAY GOODBYE TO THOSE HIGH EDISON BILLS!!!!!!!!! System consists of 62 110watt Photovoltaic Panels, 3 Sunny Boy 3kw inverters, 3 DC disconnects, electric sub panel brealers, tile trac racking system and combiner boxes. Complete system ready to install.

* Location: Palm Springs, Ca.
* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests



PostingID: 1170086336


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