# Polyurethane Problem



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I painted my kitchen countertop and then put a coat of polyurethane over it.


> Varathane 1 qt. Gloss Triple Thick Polyurethane is 3X thicker than traditional polyurethane. Its advanced water-based, self-leveling formula allows wood projects to be completed with just one coat. It provides a durable finish with exceptional scratch and stain resistance on bare and stained wood.


It doesn't say it can be used over paint, but other people seemed to have success with it.

I applied the first coat of poly with a foam roller. When dry, the roller marks were very visible, so I lightly sanded and applied a 2nd coat using a brush.

Same problem, but now brush strokes. I lightly sanded and put a 3rd coat using a foam brush. Now I have foam brush strokes.

How in the heck can I put poly on my countertop and get a nice clear coat?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)




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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

No epoxy for me. That stuff is terrible expensive and even more if you make a mistake.

The 1st time I tried epoxy, it wouldn't dry. The 2nd time I ordered what the vendor told me I needed and it was not enough - which means sand it all down and start over. The 3rd time it left a valley in the finish for no reason I could see. Never again on something as big as a countertop. Maybe a coffee table.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I did my countertops with a brush, just applied one good thick coat, it left brush marks when doing it but they smoothed right out by time it dried.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Epoxy and poly are 2 different animals,...……..


2 different tactics with poly, sounds like yours is being applied too dry.....need to thin and do lots of coats or put it on super thick and deal with any runs on the vertical surfaces.


It needs to flow in order to self level, if it is applied too little/dry it will not flow out and get glass smooth...…...its aq fine line between thinning it, putting on enough and keeping runs down,..,.luckily with mostly horizontal surfaces of a counter top, truns should be minimal and can be sanded out, technically it will be drips at the front edge bottom, so a little diligent watching and wiping should minimize that as much as possible.


The ideal way with poly is spray, but that is not always possible...…..


Epoxy is the best, but works on the same principal, only more, it is applied in whats called a flood coat so it will flow and lay down flat and smooth. But that is pretty messy and work times are low, making it take a pretty small window to get just right.



You can also use a orbital sander with many different grits to get rid of brush/roller marks, but that can get expensive,...paper,sander,clean up etc and messy inside a home.

You can take the counters off, but that's not always a option either......


Using a test surface you can lay down a thicker coat and see what it takes to get it to flow/lay down with the roller or the brush...…...brush quality and roller quality, along with roller nap material/size comes into play.

Painting does take skill and requires practice...….especially what you are doing, my findings with most homeowners is they will favor putting on too little, you need a good wet roller and brush to get it to flow. Do not brush/roll/work the product any more than needed, over working it will cause those symptoms too,...


As always with anything new, a test piece on some scrap material will let you figure out your technique that works for you on your application with your tools.


So in short,one big gooping coat you can control or many coats with thinned material,...they key in both is that the product will flow and self level,...…….good brushes rollers are well worth the money, just have the proper stuff to clean them when done and they can be used many times over, plus they make laying down the material much much easier......never use the cheap chip brushes or a foam brush. Those can work ok for stains, but never paints/finishes.


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## miggyb (May 2, 2015)

shawnlee said:


> Epoxy and poly are 2 different animals,...……..
> 
> 
> 2 different tactics with poly, sounds like yours is being applied too dry.....need to thin and do lots of coats or put it on super thick and deal with any runs on the vertical surfaces.
> ...


What he said.I always achieved good results by thinning the material, using a 1/4 in nap on my roller. Apply the product with the roller and using a good quality brush to "lay off" the rolled section. if your material is "roping" (leaving brush stroke marks) the product has been over thinned or conversely, not thinned enough. BTW all manufacturers advise against thinning the product. Thin with clean water or Floetrol. I'd use the Floetrol , kinda pricey but it doesn't thin the product as much as conditions it and allows it to lay down better. Of course, weather conditions (heat and humidity) are also contributing factors.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Even though my hearts not in it, I decided to try sanding down the poly until I got a smooth finish and then reapplying a much thicker coat of poly. Unfortunately, I've already sanded down to the primer coat in a couple of places, so looks like I am going to have to sand it all the way down and start over.

Plus I took the kitchen sink out, so my kitchen is barely usable. On second thought, I think I will just put the sink back in and repaint the countertop sometime this fall.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

MoonRiver said:


> Even though my hearts not in it, I decided to try sanding down the poly until I got a smooth finish and then reapplying a much thicker coat of poly. Unfortunately, I've already sanded down to the primer coat in a couple of places, so looks like I am going to have to sand it all the way down and start over.
> 
> Plus I took the kitchen sink out, so my kitchen is barely usable. On second thought, I think I will just put the sink back in and repaint the countertop sometime this fall.


Polyurethane is great but ya gotta know a few basics about how to use it.
I never applied it over a painted surface, but if others have done it successfully, I can believe it.
The only thing I WOULD do is lightly sand the surface first (200-300 grit paper) then clean it good. No dust and maybe a little alcohol as long as it didn't bubble the paint.

Polyurethane always takes more than one coat to look right, so know that at the start.
Thin, even coats and let it dry between coats.
Next is an old tip taught to me when I was a teen.
Hit the first coat with steel wool, like you were lightly sanding it.
It will look like hammered dog poo when you're finished, but don't worry about it, lol.

It'll look scratchy and burred up and look ruined. Clean it good with a little alcohol and get all the stuff off that you can, twice if you need to.
THEN put the 2nd coat on, thin and even.
Go to bed and look at it in the morning.
It should look like glass.
If for some reason you see a few imperfections, repeat the above with a lighter touch and put on a 3rd coat.
You'll be amazed.

Now, you said this was for a kitchen countertop and you don't want to fool with epoxy.
That's ok, but realize that Poly won't tolerate setting hot pots on it the way epoxy will.
If you're ok with that, go for it.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Per @shawnlee 's advice, it needs to flow to smooth out. You can probably use it straight from the can, assuming it's fresh and thoroughly mixed, but you need to use the absolute minimum number of brush strokes.

That's probably going to mean putting on coats that are thicker than what your instinct says, but you need to have your brush loaded up to the point that you can cover its swath in a single stroke, get the brush up before it starts to leave any missed spots, and keep the brush off what you just laid down until your next coat.

That's sometimes hard to do on a first coat, since the wood tends to soak up the finish at different rates. Subsequent coats lay down much easier.

If you want to keep brush strokes out of your first coat, take the time to fully seal and fill the grain, either with sealer of a couple coats of poly, sanding smooth between each.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

Food grade tung oil is what I use.
Super hard finish, no polyurethane issues, can be touched up or refinished easily.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

MoonRiver said:


> I painted my kitchen countertop and then put a coat of polyurethane over it.
> 
> It doesn't say it can be used over paint, but other people seemed to have success with it.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry I didn't catch exactly what you were using when I first posted. I've use that triple thick stuff before and it was a little problematic. I liked that it was thicker but it took longer to dry and I think because of that it didn't react the way I was used to, sanding and scuffing between coats. It never got that glassy look I was looking for, it's ok for outdoor stuff when you just want it protected, but the regular stuff works better for what yopu want, IMO.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I've used poly over stain before and never had a problem with brush strokes, so I'm considering putting a stain on the countertop.


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## miggyb (May 2, 2015)

Never fails. A roomful of painters will always dissent. I was taught to seal the wood surface, after staining, using the finish product ,thinned down to almost half. Upon drying, sand oil based poly with 120/180/220 grit, in that order, between coats. For a water based product, I avoided steel wool and would use a scrubby pad. Reason being, steel wool fragments can mar the finish. Second coat was full strength, third coat was applied with a bit of thinning. I always finished my "bright work" with furniture paste wax.(Minwax) I apply the wax with 000/0000 steel wool and the buff with a clean rag. Overnight drying time on all coats op poly/varnish. I always avoided using sanding sealer under poly. Tung oil is nice but becomes a scheduled maintenance chore. The wax ,is also however, is a lot easier to maintain. "Wax on.wax off" Good luck!


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

LOL.
My dad used to say, "You're not holding your mouth right!"


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I'm going to sand down my coffee table, stain, and put a new coat of poly on it. I had to take it apart to replace one of the legs, so this should give me a real life test if stain vs paint is causing the problem I am having with poly.


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## Disguisedas (10 mo ago)

MoonRiver said:


> I painted my kitchen countertop and then put a coat of polyurethane over it.
> 
> It doesn't say it can be used over paint, but other people seemed to have success with it.
> 
> ...


Did you ever get an answer to this? I have had the same issue in the past and have to use it again on a new project but I would really like if the brush strokes were not a problem.


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