# Apple product questions



## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

Sometime in the next year, I want to upgrade to a new computer. I've always used a PC, but I'm giving some consideration to switching over to a Mac or an IPad. The problem is I have no experience with anything Apple (at least not that doesn't involve hard cider). I'd like to check them out in person, but the nearest Apple Store is in the next state.

I use my computer mainly for internet browsing, research, etc., writing, and occasional photo editing. I do stream movies occasionally, but I never do gaming of any kind.

The Mac laptops look okay, but are way more expensive than a similar Dell or HP laptop, so I'm hesitant to go there. The IPads look interesting if you add a keyboard, but the keyboard has to be comfortable because I do a lot of typing. The size and resolution of the display is also a concern because of my vision problems. I will also need to be able to run Word.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

deaconjim said:


> I've always used a PC, but I'm giving some consideration to switching over to a Mac or an IPad.


Why? That a serious question. Most people who do Apple products can't really tell you why other than they believe all the hype.

Its ok if you want to, but I would urge you to examine your motive and see if its realistic or hype.

Now let the flaming for my answer begin.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

mnn2501 said:


> Why? That a serious question. Most people who do Apple products can't really tell you why other than they believe all the hype.
> 
> Its ok if you want to, but I would urge you to examine your motive and see if its realistic or hype.
> 
> Now let the flaming for my answer begin.


No flames coming from my direction. I can't honestly say why, except that I have heard that Macs are better for editing and publishing, and that there are so many that swear by them. I honestly don't know that much about their stuff, so I am just trying to do some research before I make a decision on the next one.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Apple is an over priced walled garden.. Yes, they will run Word... But I've moved to Open office and like it much better.. 

I support Apple at work, and really don't like the OS. It's not real intuitive and doesn't flow well... I like Android and Linux much better. 

I've move to a lot of open software and usually found better products there for free than the two big names in the game.. 

Right now I got a Linux box displayed on my TV running Pandora from it to my stereo.. MUCH better sounding sound card than Apple has.. 

Apple was at one time the video, music and publishing power house... not so much any more since many other hardware makers and software vendors have gotten into the game... I like Gimp much better for editing photos and such than what Apple has to offer.. and it's free too


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

simi-steading said:


> Apple is an over priced walled garden.. Yes, they will run Word... But I've moved to Open office and like it much better..
> 
> I support Apple at work, and really don't like the OS. It's not real intuitive and doesn't flow well... I like Android and Linux much better.
> 
> ...


I have the Open Office software and I've tried to use it, but frankly I like Word a lot better. Once you started talking about Android and Linux you lost me. I've never even heard of Gimp.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

deaconjim said:


> I have the Open Office software and I've tried to use it, but frankly I like Word a lot better. Once you started talking about Android and Linux you lost me. I've never even heard of Gimp.


 Apple is still way ahead of any computer when it comes for movie makers using them. Many movies special effects are made using Apples. I see lots of them in the background of different films et. LOL
I know I will never go back to a PC. This OS which is called Mountain Lion is great and a huge update coming this summer to make it even more so like the iOS of the iPads etc. So it will even flow smother yet like the iOS does. I was watching American Pickers, and even their computer system is a iMac. LOL


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## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

Jim I use both--MAC for graphic design work and PC for funning around. You can get Microsoft Office for the MAC but frankly I find it difficult to use especially if you are already used to using it on a PC. I do a lot of heavy photo editing and layout work (Photoshop and InDesign or Quark)--that's where my MAC excels. But it is pricey compared to the PC. Frankly I find the MAC harder to troubleshoot than the PC and yes, it does have it's quirks too.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I think you see a lot of Apples in the background of movies because, well, that's where Apple is from (California, the same as the studios) and a lot of fanboi's live there too... 

I'm not trying to knock Apple, but for the money, unless you are a pro users with very specific needs, it's just too much of a learning curve if you aren't used to them, and as I stated, they are a very walled garden... Steve's way or the highway... 

Gimp is an Open Source software similar to Photoshop... Some really incredible plug-in's are available for it.. They have a windows version of it... Search for it and download it.. pretty impressive, especially for free.. 
.. 
Linux and Android are a Unix style based software, and similar to the Apple OS on the back side... I just find most of them to be a lot easier to control and edit than Apple. They flow better, and they "hide" things in easier to find places.. 

I also find that there is more support and trouble shooting for Linux and Android on the web, because there seems to be a geekier audience that loves it and loves to share what they know... Like it somehow makes them better or something.. 

It really is a personal choice.. but I've seen people new to Apple really struggle, and I've seen people new to Linux have an easier time.... 

Just sharing my experiences... I've been supporting Apple for 12 years, and I've still not come to like it... Don't get me wrong, it does have it's place for a power user..


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## Terri in WV (May 10, 2002)

I was very hesitant about a Mac, because of the price. After a lot of debating with myself, I went ahead and bought one. I'm glad I did. I've had mine for about 4 1/2 years and it's still going strong.

I'm in no way pc literate, but I've found Mac to be so much easier to pick up on than a regular pc. I could never get the hang of loading pics, typing a letter, cut and paste, etc., until the Mac. I also think their help feature is really easy to use(most of the time, AK has had to help me a couple of times though ).

Also, to me, I think the screen is clearer and gives a much sharper image. I can stay on this one for long periods of time without eye strain. I like the mouse on it too. It just seems that the quality is much higher than on other laptops. I hate having to use something else now as they all seem chintzy in comparison.

I have 4 other laptops in the house right now. Only 2 are in use, the other 2 need repairs. With what I've spent on these pc's, in purchasing and repairs, I could have bought 3 IPads for the kids.

I'm a Mac gal!


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Terri in WV said:


> I was very hesitant about a Mac, because of the price. After a lot of debating with myself, I went ahead and bought one. I'm glad I did. I've had mine for about 4 1/2 years and it's still going strong.
> I'm a Mac gal!


 Sounds like you and I have the same year Mac. Mine is also about 4-1/2 years ago. Mine is a Early 2009 iMac when bought it had Leopard as the version of the OS, the Snow Leopard version just came out so I updated to it right away. Now with Mountain Lion as the OS X Version things are really humming along at a nice pace. 
And with the new update coming this summer things sound like it will get better.
We should hear more about the update coming I guess on Monday. LOL


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## tmorgan46 (May 12, 2013)

It used to be that if you wanted a stable computer to use, the Window's based PC was not the way to go. Windows has come a long way so i would say that it is an option, for those who care not to stray away from what they're used to. I've run it all, and continue to run a wide assortment. On all of my machines, I run Open Office. I really like my iMac and have been using it since 2006. I've locked up or had to force a restart one time in the 7 years I've been using it. I've used linux since I started with SuSE 5.3 and have used all the variants of the MS Windows product line. Here's my quick and simple take - if you want stability and major upgrades at a lower price point - try an Apple. I've spent probably $90.00 total upgrading from OSX ??? whatever the animal was when I bought it, to what I'm using today. I cannot say the same for Windows. I spent the ~$100.00 for Vista and then the same amount a couple years later for Windows 7, but I won't get fooled into trying Windows 8 (haven't read anything good).
As far as intuitive, I have to give that to Apple as well. The applications install into a single directory not fractured across different types of system and windows directories. There's no need for RegEdit (if you've ever had to edit the Windows registry then you know how much fun that can be) I remember how difficult it was to install my first Mac program... Oh, drag the application folder to the "Applications" folder. yep, that's pretty much it. I've had much better luck with my iMac when it comes to drivers for different peripherals, cameras, printers, etc. 
So, with all that being said - I am not an IT helpdesk guy (well, not anymore. I did work for HP a while back) but I do design and architect computer systems, so I think I'm at least somewhat qualified to opine here. Overall, I do prefer Linux but I wouldn't trade my Mac for anything. I just wish this one would hurry up and die so I could go get one of the new ones!
I like the camera and photo editing support, and movies and what device doesn't require iTunes??? It's there by default. 
My Windows 7 box serves it's purpose, games. But that's about it. I don't trust it for anything. Which reminds me of one of the last points - there are by far many more viruses and malware infections targeted towards the PC than any other OS. I don't run risky stuff, nor do I do anything risky on the web, but I trust my iMac far and above my PC when it comes to banking and paying my bills. And it's the machine I back my home network up to...
The price is a factor right up front. But after that, I think over the course of a few years, you'll save as much as you spend extra at the beginning.
Hope this helps. Would be more than willing to explain any comment or suggestion I've made here.

TTFN
Troy


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## Terri in WV (May 10, 2002)

Troy brought up another point on why I got a Mac, online bill paying. I never did that until I bought mine, because I didn't feel safe doing so. I figure I've saved at least a third of the cost of the laptop on not using stamps now.


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## Limon (Aug 25, 2010)

deaconjim said:


> No flames coming from my direction. I can't honestly say why, except that I have heard that Macs are better for editing and publishing...


That used to be true - several decades ago. At the dawn of desktop publishing, Apple font sizes were true to print font sizes. Windows weren't. If you're publishing a print-version newspaper or magazine where you need to know if your column was going to fit the given space available, Apple was where you went. That's no longer a concern. Any computer with appropriate software will get the job done. Back then, Apple was also better set up to do professional graphic applications. Again, no longer an issue what computer you use as long as it has enough memory. However, a lot of people in those industries are used to using Apples, and either don't realize they don't need Apples any more or don't want to bother changing. 

Apple products are very overpriced for what you get. I don't find anything about them easier to use than Windows, but they're no harder either. They have a similar system where you have folders, menu items, etc. The layout is a bit different, but there isn't a big learning curve difference between them.

I think you're going to find the screen size to be the big problem. I'm in the same boat. I do a lot of writing and my vision isn't as good as it used to be. For that reason, I stick with laptops and desktops with a screen size that's actually usable.

ETA: Don't fall for the line that Macs are more secure. They aren't. While the Mac OS has been around a long time and is secure, very few malicious attacks rely on OS flaws. Most rely on human stupidity - the user actively installs the malware by opening an attachment, downloading a game with it installed, etc. In that regard, Macs are worse because their users tend to ignore security, falsely believing they are safe. Apple is also notoriously slow in issuing security updates and patches when a concern is found.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Terri in WV said:


> Troy brought up another point on why I got a Mac, online bill paying. I never did that until I bought mine, because I didn't feel safe doing so. I figure I've saved at least a third of the cost of the laptop on not using stamps now.


Been doing that for years on my PC never had one problem.



Limon said:


> ETA: Don't fall for the line that Macs are more secure. They aren't. While the Mac OS has been around a long time and is secure, very few malicious attacks rely on OS flaws. Most rely on human stupidity - the user actively installs the malware by opening an attachment, downloading a game with it installed, etc. In that regard, Macs are worse because their users tend to ignore security, falsely believing they are safe. Apple is also notoriously slow in issuing security updates and patches when a concern is found.


Very very true!


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Limon said:


> Apple products are very overpriced for what you get.


Depends upon what you mean by 'what you get.' I'll grant you that they're more expensive. That being said, they've ALWAYS been near or at the top, reliability-wise (I have purchased 4 Macs in the last 9 years...they ALL still work), and some of the functions built-in to the operating system or included with it are things you have to purchase (e.g., iWork).



> I think you're going to find the screen size to be the big problem. I'm in the same boat. I do a lot of writing and my vision isn't as good as it used to be. For that reason, I stick with laptops and desktops with a screen size that's actually usable.


You can get a bigger screen for Mac laptops and desktops, too.



> Apple is also notoriously slow in issuing security updates and patches when a concern is found.


I'll grant you that in the last 3 years or so, they've technically had more vulnerabilities - mainly due to the reason you point out above. That being said, a lot of the reason they get guff has to do with two things:

- as they're not near as popular as MS computers, they therefore release the updates as needed, making it a bit tougher for companies to plan deployments; and

- they don't just release updates for MS software; they also release updates that fix vulnerabilities in third-party software (MySQL, Java, Apache, etc.)

My overall point - sure, they're more expensive. I'm no Apple fanboy; I have more MS-based computers. That being said, there ARE areas where the learning curve is a bit easier (e.g., uninstalling and installing programs), and they ARE more reliable.

This being said, you're absolutely right on antivirus/antimalware - buying a Mac because 'they don't get viruses' is dumb. They can and do, because stupidity and user error transcends platforms. :gaptooth:


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I have had anti-virus on this iMac for over 3 years now, and with the release of the newest Version of OS X Mountain Lion Apples became much better at any vulnerabilities that are out there. And I am sure that when the newer version comes out this summer it will be even better then before at getting to the route of problems that attacks their systems. So far there are just a very few malware ones that can attack Mountain Lion, and they have been address several months ago. That doesn't give anybody a free lane to not use anti virus or anti malware on their Macs.
But for reliability and ease of use Macs are getting a Good 2nd look now because of what Microsoft did with Windows 8 and some people are Moving over to Macs instead of going with MS 8.
Yes they are more expensive, but you go into a place that sells Used Computers and guess what no Macs are there. Not One.
Why because Apples are so reliable they last and last, and people just keep them. 
Now I am going to maybe shock a few but here goes:
Their Keyboard Stinks to high heaven IMO~!!! I used it One Week went and bought a Logitech one with all those extras on it like media controls etc. and have never used the Apple keyboard since and Never Will~!!!!


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## Le Petit Norman (Apr 28, 2008)

deaconjim said:


> Sometime in the next year, I want to upgrade to a new computer. I've always used a PC, but I'm giving some consideration to switching over to a Mac or an IPad. The problem is I have no experience with anything Apple (at least not that doesn't involve hard cider). I'd like to check them out in person, but the nearest Apple Store is in the next state.
> 
> I use my computer mainly for internet browsing, research, etc., writing, and occasional photo editing. I do stream movies occasionally, but I never do gaming of any kind.
> 
> ...


Hi Jim I used to sales mac as a living not that long ago and do write this post from my MacBook Pro. I have never had luck with PC, they also failed on me sooner than later, battery and power adapter .... I am hoping this one will not have the same issue .... and should not !!!

Now to answer some of your question, you do not need to go to an apple store to check them out, there is plenty of authorized reseller out there plug your zip code in the link below that will show you the nearest one :

http://www.apple.com/buy/.

As for the use you are describing all mac will do it easily the only resource consuming task you are describing is the photo editing.

Remember that apple sells refurbish product they come with the same warranty as a new product but with a discount ....

But one of the best thing you could do is to pick up the phone call 1 800 my apple talked to a sales rep explain him what you are doing what you have laptop software external display and so on and get an idea of what would best fit your need. One thing to now none of those sales rep are on commission for them selling you the most expensive computers or the shippest ipods their paycheck will be the same at the end of the week so they will try to get you an idea of what you need not what they want to sell you.

also all good sales rep should provide you those link to take a look at :

http://www.apple.com/support/macbasics/
http://www.apple.com/why-mac/
http://www.apple.com/accessibility/macosx/vision.html

One thing to consider and you might have though of this already but you will need to buy all your software again like word and whatever software photo editing you use those pc copy were not coded to work on a mac.

and by the way I now you said you did not liked open office but yu can use it an a mac too...


have fun browsing the possibilities.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

mnn2501 said:


> Why? That a serious question. Most people who do Apple products can't really tell you why other than they believe all the hype.
> 
> Its ok if you want to, but I would urge you to examine your motive and see if its realistic or hype.
> 
> Now let the flaming for my answer begin.


I agree!

Apple is marketing company with mediocre products.

Why spend more for a Mac when a PC will do the same?

I do own a Mac as well as several PC's, but I use my PC more because there is more software for it.

It kills me to see a person install windows on a Mac...I really laugh. If a Mac was so ---- good why do you need windows os? Oh yeah...because something you need to use is not written for a Mac!


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

And the most advanced OS in the world (Whatever flavor Mac OS) cannot be used on a big screen as nicely as a windows OS, you cannot increase the size of the menus so for browsing the web from the couch it sucks. I can globally increase font, menus, icons either all together or just certain parts on a windows computer. Windows can be customized ten ways to Sunday.


And iTunes...what a bloated software! They just now have the ability to "play next", when this has been a feature in media player, Winamp or any other windows media player. Personally I prefer drag and drop MP3 players and I don't like to be policed when I want to copy songs to multiple MP3 players we own.

Hardware is much easier to change in the PC world...need more ram? Buy it and slap it in...no special tools needed.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

*Want the most reliable Windows PC? Buy a Mac* And PUT Windows on it

*37,000-machine study finds most reliable Windows PC is a Mac*
Three months of laptop performance analysis puts Apple on top

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/03/macbook_pro_most_reliable_windows_pc/


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

wannabechef said:


> Apple is marketing company with mediocre products.


Really? And yet they're at the top of any category they participate in for reliability and customer satisfaction. A truly mediocre company would never get near the top.



> It kills me to see a person install windows on a Mac...I really laugh. If a Mac was so ---- good why do you need windows os?


When you previously had a PC and have possibly ONE task that has to be accomplished on a PC as the software's not produced for Macs (for instance, military members signing documents using ApproveIt, which has an enterprise agreement with the military but only for Windows).

Now, this being said, I will absolutely agree that OS X "isn't the best." It's just another alternative. True, there are a lot of fanboys out there who hate on Windows just as much as you're hating on OS X, but they're just that - fanboys who are totally convinced and no argument will sway them.

I, on the other hand, simply say that it's a good alternative, but it's just another alternative. It has its strengths and weaknesses. But mediocre products? I disagree.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

wannabechef said:


> And the most advanced OS in the world (Whatever flavor Mac OS) cannot be used on a big screen as nicely as a windows OS, you cannot increase the size of the menus so for browsing the web from the couch it sucks. I can globally increase font, menus, icons either all together or just certain parts on a windows computer. Windows can be customized ten ways to Sunday.


This one I'll grant you, as I've wondered why OS X didn't include true independence resolution

This being said, the tradeoff for tight control over OS modification is OS stability. Of the 4 Macs I've owned, over 8 years, I've had one crash exactly ONCE, and that's because I was hacking the @!#$#@ out of it. LOL



> Hardware is much easier to change in the PC world...need more ram? Buy it and slap it in...no special tools needed.


Here I'll have to disagree. In the past, yes, this was tough. Now? I flip my Mac Mini over, spin off the bottom, insert RAM and I'm done.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Ya talking about putting in RAM. All I did was set the machine on its face.
Turn out One Screw the cover was off, and bingo there were the two sticks of RAM with tab to pull them out. Took, what one minute to add more RAM to a iMac. Wow talk about easy. And talk about being a whole lot cheaper to buy RAM then it was for the last DELL I had.
8 Gigs, two 4 gig sticks for 47 bucks including shipping. That is a very good price. And buy them from "Crucial" a very reliable on line source at that.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

My Mac mini required paint scrapers and other rigged tools to get inside.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

wannabechef said:


> My Mac mini required paint scrapers and other rigged tools to get inside.


Yeah, the first Intel Mac Minis were like that - and I'll grant you, THOSE were 'fun' to get into. That being said, I still managed to get in and update it with a faster hard drive and RAM. I've still got it @ home; works great but just not using it.

However, they redesigned that back in, oh, 2009 or 2010. It now has a large circular base underneath it that just spins off to allow access to the memory and such. It's a *TON* easier to work on.


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## HollidayS (Jul 26, 2013)

Decon Jim, did you ever get the answer you were looking for in your post?
I have been an apple user since 1984 and a web designer and digital artist since 1985. I can tell you exactly why to have a Mac over a pc. 

1) more logical making it much easier to use. 
2) no constant threat of virus.
3) almost non existent system crashes.
4) hold their value 10x better than a pc
5) and if you love pc, a mac will run pc native. But once you get using a mac, you will never want to run the pc side.
6) any major software that is for pc, can now be purchased for mac. If you find one that doesn't, you can still run it on a mac by partitioning it to run both mac/pc. 

Yes, they are more expensive initially, but dollar for dollar, you get what you pay for it. We currently have a 3 year old iMac that is still worth over 1k. If there was a comparable pc, I can assure you that it wouldn't have held it's value. This isn't about the hype, it is about continuing to be the best on the market. We also have an iPad, MacMini and all have been problem free and are still worth almost as much as we paid for them. If you haven't made up your mind and want real data, not hate mongering, message me. 




deaconjim said:


> Sometime in the next year, I want to upgrade to a new computer. I've always used a PC, but I'm giving some consideration to switching over to a Mac or an IPad. The problem is I have no experience with anything Apple (at least not that doesn't involve hard cider). I'd like to check them out in person, but the nearest Apple Store is in the next state.
> 
> I use my computer mainly for internet browsing, research, etc., writing, and occasional photo editing. I do stream movies occasionally, but I never do gaming of any kind.
> 
> ...


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

HollidayS said:


> Decon Jim, did you ever get the answer you were looking for in your post?
> I have been an apple user since 1984 and a web designer and digital artist since 1985. I can tell you exactly why to have a Mac over a pc.
> 
> 1) more logical making it much easier to use.
> ...


Thanks for the info. To answer your question, I have learned a lot, but I have not made a final decision. I do like the sound of a Mac, but price may be the determining factor. It will be a few months before I have to make the decision, so I'll have to see how the bank account looks when the time comes.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

deaconjim said:


> Thanks for the info. To answer your question, I have learned a lot, but I have not made a final decision. I do like the sound of a Mac, but price may be the determining factor. It will be a few months before I have to make the decision, so I'll have to see how the bank account looks when the time comes.


I can't help but recommend Windows. The installed base is enormous, so there's more help available for PC that any other workstation. The only thing that would give me pause might be having to put up with Windows 8, so I'm staying with Windows 7 for the time being. With a new machine you may not have that luxury.

It's true that virus & malware problems are probably bigger with Windows, but there are free virus & malware blockers & scanners available that are very effective. But Mac & Linux have become targets to virus & malware attacks also. As you know, I make my living configuring & administrating Linux servers, and I have to update my operating system and packages regularly to avoid having vulnerabilities in the servers. Trust me, if I ignored the threat of viruses & vulnerabilities in a Linux server the ankle-biters would eat me alive.

For me, I've never had a lot of choice. As you know, I was a refinery (process) engineer in my pre-Internet life. We use process modeling software a lot in that line of work. While there are a number of vendors for that kind of software (Aspen, ChemCAD, Hysis, Simsci, etc.), all of the mainstream graphical simulation applications only work with Windows. But a Windows workstation is fine with me. Remote Linux server administration is pretty straightforward from a Windows workstation.

Besides, with Windows commanding a 92% market share, the handwriting is on the wall.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

deaconjim said:


> Thanks for the info. To answer your question, I have learned a lot, but I have not made a final decision. I do like the sound of a Mac, but price may be the determining factor. It will be a few months before I have to make the decision, so I'll have to see how the bank account looks when the time comes.


Cool. And there is always that possibility that if you get a Mac and still want to run Windows for what ever reason. You sure can add windows to a Mac machine. Like reports are coming out. Want a better Windows Machine. Run Windows on a Mac. LOL


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## HollidayS (Jul 26, 2013)

That chart and info was done by microsoft. It is not factual. Right now, apple has more than 38% of the market share worldwide. Mis-information abounds. While Nevada may work on linux servers, he has missed the boat on apple products. As a apple user since 1984, I can tell you, I have had one virus (over 20 years ago) and it put a smily face on my screen and disappeared. No real damage. As for malware, I think that they are beginning to pay attention to macs, but again, that is because many macs are running both windows and OSX. 

Nevada, do stay in the pc repair business. They break down much more often than macs. Which should keep you happily employed. In all my years as a apple user, I have only had one break down on me. It was a 4 year old apple laptop that I dropped. (

I still have several of my older macs. They all work, just weren't fast enough or able to use the newer OS's. 

If you are not an engineer, and just want a reliable, easy to use machine that will retain it's value, is easy to use and can do everything a pc can (in my opinion better), then look at buying a used (1 or 2 year old) iMac. I agree, that I like the old style keyboards better, but that is personal taste. Good luck. If you do get a mac, feel free to message me with any questions. While I am not a engineer, I am an MBA that has made my living off of using computers since 1984. 



Nevada said:


> I can't help but recommend Windows. The installed base is enormous, so there's more help available for PC that any other workstation. The only thing that would give me pause might be having to put up with Windows 8, so I'm staying with Windows 7 for the time being. With a new machine you may not have that luxury.
> 
> It's true that virus & malware problems are probably bigger with Windows, but there are free virus & malware blockers & scanners available that are very effective. But Mac & Linux have become targets to virus & malware attacks also. As you know, I make my living configuring & administrating Linux servers, and I have to update my operating system and packages regularly to avoid having vulnerabilities in the servers. Trust me, if I ignored the threat of viruses & vulnerabilities in a Linux server the ankle-biters would eat me alive.
> 
> ...


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HollidayS said:


> That chart and info was done by microsoft. It is not factual. Right now, apple has more than 38% of the market share worldwide. Mis-information abounds.


That might be a reasonable number if you include mobile devices and smart phones, but I don't believe that Windows has less than 90% market share in the personal computer market.

By the way, I'm not in the PC repair business.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

HollidayS said:


> That chart and info was done by microsoft. It is not factual. Right now, apple has more than 38% of the market share worldwide.


Your info is 100% wrong when talking about computers. You have to be talking about sales dollars rather than units sold and you would have to add smart phones and ipads, etc to even come close to 38% and still I really doubt that figure.

And to top it all off Nevada's graphic was on OS usage, not on $$ sales. 
Is it REALLY your claim that 38% of the Operating Systems in use are Apples? really?


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I agree that high percentage IS the total OS system for smartphones etc.
The Macs OS is at 10% and is just now being forecasted to grow to 14% by next year. Many PC's owners with this huge disappointment in Windows 8 have made a slow but steady movement over to Macs.
And because most of those already use iPhones that use Safari for a browser, it has made those folks a easier switch over to make.
But no, Apple has not moved that far up in the PC market share with the Macs. It has been around 10% for many many years, and just now is showing a small upward growth. ( All Thanks to Windows 8 ) LOL


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

arabian knight said:


> The Macs OS is at 10% and is just now being forecasted to grow to 14% by next year. Many PC's owners with this huge disappointment in Windows 8 have made a slow but steady movement over to Macs.


I'm not so sure that will happen now. Microsoft has announced an update for Windows 8 to address the user friendliness issues. They haven't said exactly what they will do, but the update promises improvement.

It's my opinion that Microsoft's strategy of developing a single product (Windows 8) to use on PCs, tablets, and even smart phones is a flawed concept. Those are very different devices that require very different interfaces. I could be mistaken, but I think they should develop unique operating system products for each class of product. It's the tiled interface that works so well in smart phone applications that got Windows 8 in trouble with the PC market.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I have read reviews and they still say WHY? MS is still not going away from the Touch Screen. And why would ANYBODY want to Reach Up And Touch their monitor to change things? That is the big hangup sure they are coming back with the so called "start" button, but they are NOT going away from the touch screen interface. Read the reviews on PCMag.com, I have them on my MSN Homepage. They are not giving good reviews even if MS does this slight change. Sure touch screen is the right thing for tablets, and phones etc. but not when it comes to laptops, and certainly not desktop PC's with a separate monitor or even worse the all in one units.\ In fact the latest headline for PCMAg is WHY would anybody want to "touch" their pc screen? LOL


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

arabian knight said:


> they are coming back with the so called "start" button, but they are NOT going away from the touch screen interface. Read the reviews on PCMag.com


I don't need to read reviews since I tried Windows 8 myself for a few weeks.

My problem wasn't that the Metro Tiles were there, my problem was that the Metro Tiles didn't take me where I need to get. They can leave the tiles right were they are and they won't get in my way. If I ever revert to Windows 8 again I'll just stay in the Desktop environment and use the Start Menu.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Nevada said:


> I don't need to read reviews since I tried Windows 8 myself for a few weeks.


IIRC, it was for one week; I even gave you suggestions on how to disable almost all of the PITA stuff and you said "Naah - going back to 7."

As-is, I don't like it; but tweaked, I like it better than Windows 7, frankly. Saying "I don't need to read reviews" might be eschewing valuable information.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Kung said:


> Saying "I don't need to read reviews" might be eschewing valuable information.


You are correct, and the fact is that I still read reviews. My choice of words was poor. I should have just said "been there, done that" and left it there.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Nevada said:


> You are correct, and the fact is that I still read reviews. My choice of words was poor. I should have just said "been there, done that" and left it there.


Now that I can understand. The reason I've stuck with it, quite frankly, is because there've been a ton of people who WERE stuck with it :gaptooth: and they didn't have a way out. So I wanted to find out what I'd need to do to make it the way I wanted.

Turns out - astonishing little.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Kung said:


> Now that I can understand. The reason I've stuck with it, quite frankly, is because there've been a ton of people who WERE stuck with it :gaptooth: and they didn't have a way out. So I wanted to find out what I'd need to do to make it the way I wanted.
> 
> Turns out - astonishing little.


I don't do customer support any longer or I would have had to do the same. Since it's just me that I have to be concerned with staying with Win7 is fine.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

Anyway to disable the default touch screen appearance of windows 8?

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 4


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

wannabechef said:


> Anyway to disable the default touch screen appearance of windows 8?
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 4


The Metro Tiles are one level above the Desktop environment, but can't be disabled. But you are welcome to use a mouse instead of a tough screen.

Most computer users enter the Desktop when the start the computer. The Desktop is what you saw with Windows 7 & Windows XP. The Desktop is considered just an application in the Metro Tiles, but that's where most computer users stay.


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