# Buying neighboring lot that has restrictive covenants



## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

I am not sure if this is the best category for this question but I hope so!

In the Spring I plan on buying 5.33 acres that touches my property. I will be filing the papers to combine that land with my current land to form one single tax ID code and for all legal purposes the three lots become one.

The current 5.33 acres (two different lots) are part of a planned subdivision that has restrictive covenants on it. The guy who owns them and put on the restrictions is a tad bit of a religious quack. He is also much anti farming for this little pretty picture perfect subdivision out in the middle of the country. The land has been for sale for 12 years since he sold his last lot out of 10 potential lots. I did not buy my original parcel from him so I have zero restrictions where I live (aside from township and county restrictions) 

So this is my question- if I absorb those two lots can I file to get the restrictive covenants removed or do I just have to accept them until which time either the seller removes them or when 75% of owners come together to vote to have them removed?? (thats the last one... says it runs for a term of 20 years after which time at any time the owners can come together and end the restrictions but since there is only 1 lot sold out of 10 lots at the 12 yr mark im just not sure how many more decades it will take to get 8 lots sold to someone other than the current owner lol!)


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## DaveNay (Nov 25, 2012)

I would suggest to the seller that he remove the restrictions as a part of the sale. Without the restrictions being 100% removed PRIOR to the sale, I would say avoid the purchase entirely.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

DaveNay said:


> I would suggest to the seller that he remove the restrictions as a part of the sale. Without the restrictions being 100% removed PRIOR to the sale, I would say avoid the purchase entirely.


Why separate them? Even IF that worked I would keep them as separate lots, never know what may happen in the future....James


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

You should follow DaveNays advice. If seller will not cooperate with you then you need a lawyer. DO NOT EVER trust a bunch of unknown people on a public forum for advice so important. NEVER. 

It sounds like the seller may be a nut and you should have a good lawyer help you with the purchase anyway.


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## maglag4 (Dec 26, 2013)

Attorney, here, but this is not legal advice. It's not as simple as getting the owner to remove the restrictions on two lots. The subdivision was most likely surveyed, platted and approved by P&Z as a subdivision and would have to be resubmitted as a subdivision for approval with fewer lots with no restrictions. Since there is one lot owner, any such change would not be easy. You didnt mention the restrictions, but I'm guessing the restrictions include animal and use restrictions. If so, you are already going to be butted up against potentially unfriendly homeowners with your current property if you plan to use it for reasons that conflict with the current restrictions. Subdivisions are a unique legal animal and two lots cannot be easily absorbed into your property. Check with a local real estate attorney.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

You can also simply ignore the restrictions. That would force the original seller, or other lot owners, to take you to court to enforce them (money/time on his/their part). The other thing it would do is keep you from getting any type of financing on THAT property, as the bank won't loan on a property violating restrictions they know about. IF you were trying to put a mobile home park on it, you'd probably run into problems....but if you're simply talking using it for grazing, you'd have to feel out the other neighbors for what they would be OK with.

Personally, if I wanted to plant corn on it, for example, I'd call them "tall native type grass"....ahahahaaaaa

Having been in a deal trying to get subdivision restrictions enforced, placed there by long gone owner, I can tell you they almost aren't worth the paper they are written on unless you're willing to foot a large legal bill.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

maglag4 said:


> Attorney, here, but this is not legal advice. It's not as simple as getting the owner to remove the restrictions on two lots. *The subdivision was most likely surveyed, platted and approved by P&Z as a subdivision and would have to be resubmitted as a subdivision for approval with fewer lots with no restrictions. *



*You might also check to see IF the restrictions were ever recorded. *Restrictions on a single property are usually written into the deed of sale. Subdivision restrictions may be filed as a separate filing along with the entire plat of lots in your State.


In Tennessee, for example, they are *filed separately* from the plat. 

Little story on that:

1980, I built a home for sale in a subdivision with "restricted" lots.....*only the stupid developer forgot to file the restrictions..*..he gave copies to everybody that bought a lot, so they all THOUGHT they were buying restricted properties, but they weren't. They could have done virtually anything with their property (we had no county zoning at that time).

This came to light when I wanted to buy this one odd lot. Looking at the plat, the lot on either side had a 30' front setback. The lot I wanted had a 60' front setback because it was an odd, narrow lot. Well, there were already two houses on either side (I built one of them) at 30'. It would have looked stupid (again, the developer was an idiot) to set the one in the middle back 60', so I picked a house plan that was narrow on width, but quite deep to 'fit' that lot. Took that to the developer, he said OK....I can waive any restriction, and I built the house. 

Got ready to close on the sale and BAMM....call from the bank.

THAT is when I found out the idiot didn't file the restrictions, giving him the power to waive anything....but he DID file the plat, showing that 60' setback, so *that* applied. I had to go to every single owner of other lots in the subdivision, repeat the above, and get them to sign off on the fact I'd built a nice house that fit the lot and they were OK with it !  If one of them (and there were about 40) had objected, I would have been screwed. I caught one with the moving van in the driveway as they were leaving for work out of State, and leaving the house up for sale....it was a 3 ring circus. But with a notary public IN TOW, (yeah....and I paid for that, believe me) I managed to get it done.

I also told them the lot they 'thought' was restricted really wasn't. The developer (who signed off on the lots he still owned.....about another 40) then ran down and filed restrictions on the remaining lots he still owned, so today you have a subdivision with about half/half.....total hoot!

So, I'd go to the county courthouse deed office and see what actually IS on file with the property in question.....because what you are told, and what actually IS, can vary !


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

I was able to get the copy of the restrictive covenants because they were filed with Register of Deeds. I bought my land in 2001.. the subdivision was put in (surveyed/platted etc) in 2004. He turned 25 acres into 10 lots with a private road up the center. The thing is, the road runs along my west property line so everyone going into his subdivision first has to see ME... with my cows, pigs and chickens! The road is my west line.... and then I have a 2 acre parcel to my east but it only goes up 2/3rd of the way and then the lot to my south wraps around. To buy those two lots would give me a nice square parcel of land for a total of almost 8 acres including my original.

Those lots are wooded with enough standing dead trees to heat my home for the next 3-5 years never touching anything living. The land also shades my east and south lines to the point it hinders my ability to garden. I want to cut back 100 feet in both directions and let the sunlight in! 

and yes the covenants that I would take issue with are in regard to use. Most of them do not apply to me. I have no interest in creating alcohol and selling it. I also would not be using it to sell tobacco nor would I be an abortion clinic or be a counselor who would use that land for an office to tell people its okay to abort their babies. I also do not have any interest in using power tools all day long or have dead vehicles. I mean I have two here at home lol but thats not an issue to me.

BUT... the issue.... animals. and maybe even bee hives would be violating restrictions. The only allow chickens and rabbits and only in 100% enclosed building and never visible to passerbyers

But basically they want nothing at all that resemble to that of livestock. No hot fence, barbed wire, wolven wire etc. One can use decorative wood fence but large livestock is not allowed/strictly not permitted.

Well, I have cows and quite frankly I can turn 2 of those acres to my east into a pasture once I remove the dead trees. The seller killed those trees when he filled in a swampy area with sand. Its been 10 years and there is a bit of vegetation now (lots of berries) if I ran some controlled grazing with cows it would take 3-5 years but I think I could have a nice little pasture over there. No one near his other lots would even see them in that spot. There is a ridge on the lot 2 that blocks views to the south. And if anything it might make my cows smell a little nicer as they would not be as concentrated here.

To combine all three lots for legal purposes would keep the property taxes lower. Its not terrible now. I think the two lots combined is about $250 a year but to just combine with my property will keep the increase in taxes under $100. 

I have pondered just selling this place and moving some place a bit more farming friendly but it just seems way too cost prohibitive and stressful. For 30K I can have the 5-6 acres added... and not have to sell my home, find a new one or move. We own our current home 100% debt free. It allows us to live a bit more free and afford the hay for those cows lol! but man i sure dont want anyone to ever buy either of those lots and live close to us. To buy those lots give us a bit more privacy even if i never use them for farm animals. 

I guess though another option is always to just pay myself a land payment each month and put it in savings. In 3-4 years we could have a nice downpayment to get into a new home. Though i love it here. This is home. I would love to die here as an old lady. I don't have the energy I had 15 years ago if only I had known what the future held... 

I guess I should add this- the subdivision owner/seller is my estranged father in law. He disowned us back in 2008. He hates that we live here with our farm animals. But he has negotiated with us a bit through a realtor on those lots. He wont give me a land contract but he will sell to us. But absolutely not a chance of him removing those restrictions to sell to us I wouldnt doubt it if he created those restrictions because of us. We lived here first and at first I had some ******* looking coops and goats, old vehicles and lots of trash. (though most of it came from his house to clean up his own yard when my husband finally had his own place to store it) The irony is that he had a barn and had holsteins to raise up his own family. They had chickens and pigs too. They had the big garden. His life there was not a whole lot different than I want for my kids here except that he made his land with those high restrictions. I think to myself that maybe if i just tethered the cows with a couple kids nearby that if he ever saw them that he wouldnt pay them much mind. I would understand if I put up permanent fencing and had so many it was just a huge dry lot that stunk up the place that he would give me grief. But if I kept their barn over here and their main residence but only did some temp fencing or tethering that maybe he would not bother us any at all with trying to take us to court. I can handle temp stuff... I could also move my orchard trees over there and just make a bigger area for my cows here on my original parcel.

Oh my head spins... and my heart too for that matter :/


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

Not that it changes the legality of his restrictions any... but there is just one lot sold (1o years ago) and that guy is violating 3-4 of the covenants and my FIL has not caused him a bit of grief over it. He has too many outbuildings (twice as many as allowed) and the pitch to his roof is not steep enough. But not a farm animal issue but ignored restrictions none the less. His house doesnt have the proper minimum of sq footage either. But no court issues. So he might be a little lax as long as someone doesnt decrease land values. Some temp grazing wouldnt necessarily be bad... I mean its not worse than me already being here! LOL! Yes me being here is a thorn in his side lol! Who knows maybe thats why he disowned me deep down LOLOLOL! But im here already and the animals are already here... so whether or not he has restrictions enforced on those lots it wont change the fact anyone who goes up that subdivision road already has to see my farm animals  Being on either of those lots actually would conceal them more than they are now


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## maglag4 (Dec 26, 2013)

Interesting facts, LittleRedHen. It sounds like your ex FIL can't sell lots because he is not serious about maintaining the subdivision. Lot owners pay a premium to have a controlled neighborhood. I would not recommend buying the lots with the intention of testing the restrictions. If you want to be able to sell the lots in the future, then they should not be in violation of the covenants or it will be a cloud on your title.


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

No he doesnt seem very serious on it despite how strongly he created the restrictions to begin with. He does not maintain the gravel road very well. The one guy who bought the lot (he is in the back) mows the edges and drags it every so often to keep it looking nice. Overall everything is just getting overgrown and left natural. The grass doesnt exist- its beach grass on most of the lots. He has electricity available but its not at all a manicured subdivision. 

There is a subdivision closer to the freeway where the lots are similiar priced but no trees. Just nice grass on a paved road. it is the type of place you expect covenants and pretty homes. If I was a buyer, that is the type of community I would expect to have lots of rules. The land around me? its an old farm just divided up, put a road in and a bunch of rules but location, lack of manicured lots etc with restrictions it just doesnt quite fit. The people attracted to such rules would be turned off by the lack of prepared homesites

If I ever bought the lots I would never sell... I am here for life. Cows wont be for life...just another 20 years until we are done with 4H and needing lots of milk! (big family that eventually will leave the nest)


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## LuLuToo (Dec 19, 2015)

I will just tell you about an acquaintance here in our township. She and her husband bought an abandoned house and fixed it up beautifully. The neighbors have to be happy about all the time and money they invested in that property. She then placed a beautiful little play house in the back yard - not near any property lines. It is painted and decorated and really quite lovely. She used it as a chicken coop for her 6 chickens. No roosters, mind you. Six very small chickens. Zoning got wind of it and pulled her in for a violation. We are not allowed 'livestock' on less than 3 acres. I went over to see the property, prior to the zoning hearing. That is when I met her. The back yard is lovely and the chickens were let out to walk around so I could see them. There was no smell and so little noise that I could barely hear them at my feet. She and her husband prepared a beautiful presentation on the benefits of backyard chickens. Every neighbor, but one, spoke on behalf of her and her chickens. Mind you, we are allowed to own up to 4 dogs, any breed, regardless of yard size. One man spoke against her and her chickens. He owns a rental two doors down from her house. He said he has been over there and the chickens were making a ruckus. Guess what? Not only was she denied a variance, the trustee board filed a lawsuit against her and her husband. They went to court on that earlier this month. The chickens are gone, but they still received a fine. If they had not gotten rid of the chickens, the fine would have stood at $500 per DAY. Last I heard, her plan is to replace the 6 little chickens with 4 large dogs. I bet the neighbors will all be wishing the zoning appeals board had allowed her to keep the chickens. (And I have 4 dogs. I know they make a lot more noise than those chickens did). Long story short, if you want animals which are not allowed, either obtain a variance ahead of time or look for a different place. It sounds to me like you either need to mend fences with the FIL or put some space in between you and him.

LuLu


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

I would say, beware of projecting "reasonable" behavior onto what you can expect from your ex-FIL. This all has the feel of a ******** in the making. Perhaps he would even spend silly amounts of money on legal fees if in so doing he could cost you a smaller amount, but create time wastage plus stress for you. Letting it be known he might sell the lots to you might even be, in effect, a trap he has baited expecting to get leverage for future revenge? How many grudges from former family fusses might be lying dormant with him at this point, just waiting to fuel future behavior if given any legalistic justifications?


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

I thought I would update:

We agree to a land sale deal with the contingency that he is to remove And record the removal of the restrictive covenants regarding farm animals and fencing. He was rejecting lower offers on the land so I said to the realtor that I would not pay full price for land that I was hindered in using. If I wasnt allowed to have farm animals on that land then to me it is nothing more than insuring I would have no close neighbors. It is just some trees with blown in sand in a swampy area. I gave two offers.. one more for 30K and accepting restrictions orI would pay his full price of 35K with the removal of restrictions that hindered me from enjoying the land OTHERWISE I was walking- no deal.... I could use my loan for something else that would bring me more pleasure. I was not pressured to make this deal ....

And beyond surprisingly to me- He accepted and I have it in writing on the written offer that he has agreed to remove the specific restrictions upon closing!!!!!!!!!! the only condition is that I do not use barbed wire fencing on the property lines (whereit would touch the neighboring parcel)

I think I about hyperventilated when I read it!! Maybe my FIL has a heart afterall? When his kids were young they had a hobby farm too... maybe he had a little compassion somewhere. Or maybe its the fact the land has been for sale since 2002 (restrictions on it since 2004) and in that time he has only sold 1 lot out of 10 that he knew he would be foolish to let me walk away from buying two lots specially when it could be 10 years until the next offer from someone else. Afterall, I have pigs, chickens and cows right here- who would really want to live next to me??? Now I can give my animals more space which will reduce odors... and they will no longer be in view of people. I can finally conceal my animals! Oh I am so happy  and I didnt even have to do any kind of fancy loop hole dancing or anything. He agreed!

And to make it even more sweet. Township assessor explained not only will the property taxes not increase with the sale but then i get them reduced in half. First degree relationships mean that the SEV doesnt get uncapped and adjusted.... and adding it to our property we get the 18 mil reduction So I thought I was facing an increase of $1000 (of which I would have to go to the township and ask for a review since the land wouldnt be used for a home) but I will only have it increase $95! and no review needed.

Oh yes I am over the moon happy.... I am so much closer to my dream of self sufficiency. I wont reach it probably for another 10 years when the manure of my animals gives me nice fertile land with mature established fruit trees, berries, etc and then i downsize to mini jersey. I can barter fruit for hay and grain. I can have productive beautiful gardens.... just the most gorgeous ones i have ever dreamed . A slight soft spring fed pond I can dig out a little better for the cows to drink from .the big pond in back is spring fed too but I wouldnt own the entire pond. Now if that lot is still for sale in 10 years when I get out of debt from this one i may work towards buying that lot too and own the entire large pond (2 acres worth) and then i can dredge it better and put in fish. So many plans and dreams


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## maglag4 (Dec 26, 2013)

I suggest consulting with a real estate attorney before you sign the contract. I see some issues with the owner removing restrictions from some of the lots of a subdivision. There is still another lot owner in the subdivision which may have rights because it is a subdivision.


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