# Why Do People with Natural Immunity Need to be Vaccinated?



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Only 1 reason I can think of. To make the vaccinated statistics look better than they actually are. Over 1/3 of all Americans have had Covid-19. When added to the number of people fully vaccinated, we should be well past herd immunity, but we aren't. 

By the government counting them as unvaccinated, they can continue to say we are having so many new cases because of the high unvaccinated rate, when that doesn't appear to be the truth.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

MoonRiver said:


> Only 1 reason I can think of. To make the vaccinated statistics look better than they actually are. Over 1/3 of all Americans have had Covid-19. When added to the number of people fully vaccinated, we should be well past herd immunity, but we aren't.
> 
> By the government counting them as unvaccinated, they can continue to say we are having so many new cases because of the high unvaccinated rate, when that doesn't appear to be the truth.


Just 1/3? 

To listen to the MSM, EVERTONE has had it, and 90% of us have died........


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

To demonstrate compliance


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

MoonRiver said:


> Only 1 reason I can think of. To make the vaccinated statistics look better than they actually are. Over 1/3 of all Americans have had Covid-19. When added to the number of people fully vaccinated, we should be well past herd immunity, but we aren't.
> 
> By the government counting them as unvaccinated, they can continue to say we are having so many new cases because of the high unvaccinated rate, when that doesn't appear to be the truth.


The reason is that we now have a Socialist government and Socialism relies on force to subdue the people. Look at Venezuela and now parts of Australia. They do not care one whit what your desires are and brand you as a dangerous rebel if you so much as question their decisions. It will get worse. The current government scoffs at anyone who asks simple questions that doesn't fit the party narrative. We see it every day. They hold themselves above everyone else and are never held accountable even for horrible mistakes and crimes. There are a lot of people who agree with them, even a few on this forum.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

poppy said:


> a few


A few?

I'd say it is about 50/50


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Natural immunity does certainly protect you, but it is not known to what extent and can be very different for each person. what extent.

Vaccines, on the other hand, offer consistent protection against COVID-19 — and unlike natural immunity, you don’t have to get sick to gain the protective benefits of a vaccine.

The same applies to all the childhood diseases that children should be vaccinated against. Children do get some natural immunity from the mother but again for what and to what extent is not known. And IMO a parent would be crazy to let their child get something as deadly as Diphtheria just so they might develop natural immunity - if they survive and then get it again.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

emdeengee said:


> Natural immunity does certainly protect you, but it is not known to what extent and can be very different for each person. what extent.
> 
> Vaccines, on the other hand, offer consistent protection against COVID-19 — and unlike natural immunity, you don’t have to get sick to gain the protective benefits of a vaccines.


There are studies showing natural immunity is many times better than vaccine immunity and lasts much longer. Vaccines don't offer the same level of protection to the elderly they offer to younger people, and Pfizer is only good for about 6 months.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782139#:~:text=July%2014%2C%202021-,Study%20Suggests%20Lasting%20Immunity%20After%20COVID%2D19%2C%20With,a%20Big%20Boost%20From%20Vaccination&text=After%20an%20infection%20with,patients%20published%20in%20Nature%20suggest



*Study Suggests Lasting Immunity After COVID-19, With a Big Boost From Vaccination*


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

emdeengee said:


> Natural immunity does certainly protect you, but it is not known to what extent and can be very different for each person. what extent.
> 
> Vaccines, on the other hand, offer consistent protection against COVID-19 — and unlike natural immunity, you don’t have to get sick to gain the protective benefits of a vaccine.
> 
> The same applies to all the childhood diseases that children should be vaccinated against. Children do get some natural immunity from the mother but again for what and to what extent is not known. And IMO a parent would be crazy to let their child get something as deadly as Diphtheria just so they might develop natural immunity - if they survive and then get it again.


So says the Ministry of Truth....Where do you come up with this crap?

Requirement that the recovered still require vaccination is irrefutable proof that the goal is totalitarian control of the population, not protection from the virus.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doc- said:


> So says the Ministry of Truth....Where do you come up with this crap?
> 
> Requirement that the recovered still require vaccination is irrefutable proof that the goal is totalitarian control of the population, not protection from the virus.


Don't confuse their minions


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

painterswife said:


> https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782139#:~:text=July%2014%2C%202021-,Study%20Suggests%20Lasting%20Immunity%20After%20COVID%2D19%2C%20With,a%20Big%20Boost%20From%20Vaccination&text=After%20an%20infection%20with,patients%20published%20in%20Nature%20suggest
> 
> 
> 
> *Study Suggests Lasting Immunity After COVID-19, With a Big Boost From Vaccination*


The study is bs. They measured circulating antibodies, which DO NOT confer lasting immunity...It's the anamnestic response (ability to quickly respond with new antibody production) that confers lasting immunity.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Doc - I get my information from real doctors not conspiracy fantasists,


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Hospitals charging employees if their family is not vaccinated.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I heard said, "Government is a monopoly on violence."


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

emdeengee said:


> Vaccines, on the other hand, offer consistent protection against COVID-19…


Really?



emdeengee said:


> …and unlike natural immunity, you don’t have to get sick to gain the protective benefits of a vaccine.


And, also… Really?!?


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## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

Forcast said:


> Hospitals charging employees if their family is not vaccinated.


What???


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

doc- said:


> Requirement that the recovered still require vaccination is *irrefutable proof *that the goal is totalitarian control of the population, not protection from the virus.


Quoted and emphasized for troof.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)




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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

emdeengee said:


> Natural immunity does certainly protect you, but it is not known to what extent and can be very different for each person. what extent.
> 
> Vaccines, on the other hand, offer consistent protection against COVID-19 — and unlike natural immunity, you don’t have to get sick to gain the protective benefits of a vaccine.


since there is no real “vaccine” against COVID….. just a head start on treatment at best.



emdeengee said:


> Doc - I get my information from real doctors not conspiracy fantasists,


witch doctors?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Louisiana health system to charge workers with unvaccinated spouses on insurance plan $200


The largest health system in Louisiana will soon start charging employees $200 per month — or $100 per pay period — if their spouses or partners who have benefits through the health system are…




thehill.com


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I remember way back when we treated a respiratory virus with bed rest and plenty of fluids instead of communism.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Louisiana health system to charge workers with unvaccinated spouses on insurance plan $200
> 
> 
> The largest health system in Louisiana will soon start charging employees $200 per month — or $100 per pay period — if their spouses or partners who have benefits through the health system are…
> ...


Good.
No different than smoking when it comes to insurance.
Why should non smokers foot the bill for smokers? If that was the case that would be a good example of socialism 

Unvaccinated individuals have a higher chance of serious illness and hospital stays than the vaccinated. No reason vaxxed should pay for the unvaxxed.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

That is freaking hilarious.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

fireweed farm said:


> Good.
> No different than smoking when it comes to insurance.
> Why should non smokers foot the bill for smokers? If that was the case that would be a good example of socialism
> 
> Unvaccinated individuals have a higher chance of serious illness and hospital stays than the vaccinated. No reason vaxxed should pay for the unvaxxed.


False logic.

Something like 85% of all medical expenditures are accumulated during the last week of life, and we're all going to die. Those who die young (like smokers, drinkers, drug users) actually cost the system LESS over the course of their lives because they don't accrue those smaller, routine expenses for as many years as people who live long lives..

The whole principle on which insurance is based is that costs are spread around-- the healthy are supposed to pay for the sick...That's the fallacious reasoning of socialized medicine-- "the group" is everyone, and eventually everyone gets sick, so there is no "healthy group" to pay without extracting benefits.

This why fire insurance for a house only costs $500 a year for a qtr Million dollar house-- because only 1 in 5000 houses (?) ever needs to collect after a fire...but almost EVERYONE eventually will run up a big medical bill at least once.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

fireweed farm said:


> Good.
> No different than smoking when it comes to insurance.
> Why should non smokers foot the bill for smokers? If that was the case that would be a good example of socialism
> 
> Unvaccinated individuals have a higher chance of serious illness and hospital stays than the vaccinated. No reason vaxxed should pay for the unvaxxed.


No reason us not obese folks should pay for the obese either. No reason us white folks should pay for Black folks either just because the virus is harder on Blacks. No reason us people who aren't diabetic should pay for diabetics either. You are a true socialist. Hate everyone but people like yourself.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I'm guessing the Louisiana AG will have something to say about this.


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

Covid 19 is stage 1 of a biological weapon of mass destruction. Stage 2 is the vaccine.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

fireweed farm said:


> Good.
> No different than smoking when it comes to insurance.
> Why should non smokers foot the bill for smokers? If that was the case that would be a good example of socialism
> 
> Unvaccinated individuals have a higher chance of serious illness and hospital stays than the vaccinated. No reason vaxxed should pay for the unvaxxed.


So do we divide treatment into covid, fat, diabetes, smokers, sickle cell, etc. then once that is figured out how do we sort out multiple overlapping issues?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Redlands Okie said:


> So do we divide treatment into covid, fat, diabetes, smokers, sickle cell, etc. then once that is figured out how do we sort out multiple overlapping issues?


Insurance companies pay “bean counters” really big bucks to sort it all out.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

emdeengee said:


> Natural immunity does certainly protect you, but it is not known to what extent and can be very different for each person. what extent.
> 
> Vaccines, on the other hand, offer consistent protection against COVID-19 — and unlike natural immunity, you don’t have to get sick to gain the protective benefits of a vaccine.
> 
> The same applies to all the childhood diseases that children should be vaccinated against. Children do get some natural immunity from the mother but again for what and to what extent is not known. And IMO a parent would be crazy to let their child get something as deadly as Diphtheria just so they might develop natural immunity - if they survive and then get it again.


Have you heard of the adverse reactions? Don't you know about all the people who got sick from the vaccine? Did you miss the information about breakthrough cases? If the vaccine response is consistant, why do certain groups need boosters?

Vaccines used to prevent illness, not just severe illness.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Vjk said:


> Covid 19 is stage 1 of a biological weapon of mass destruction. Stage 2 is the vaccine.


Try to not go too far down that rabbit hole.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

*Why Do People with Natural Immunity Need to be Vaccinated?*

How does anybody with natural immunity to ANY disease know that they have a natural immunity to it? If you can answer that question correctly you will understand why people with natural immunity to ANY disease still need to be immunized.

.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Paumon said:


> *Why Do People with Natural Immunity Need to be Vaccinated?*
> 
> How does anybody with natural immunity to ANY disease know that they have a natural immunity to it? If you can answer that question correctly you will understand why people with natural immunity to ANY disease still need to be immunized.
> 
> .


Most people develop a natural immunity by being exposed to said disease. Do I need to be vaccinated for measles?


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

MoonRiver said:


> I'm guessing the Louisiana AG will have something to say about this.





Paumon said:


> I'm waiting for the lawyers to jump in claiming the un-vaxed represent a medical handicap and deserve compensation.
> *Why Do People with Natural Immunity Need to be Vaccinated?*
> 
> How does anybody with natural immunity to ANY disease know that they have a natural immunity to it? If you can answer that question correctly you will understand why people with natural immunity to ANY disease still need to be immunized.
> ...


Good question. Complex answer. Viral infections that are survived do confer permanent immunity (with few exceptions-- Eg- HIV, a particular problem because it attacks the very cells that provide immunity, or hepatitis viruses-- most people become immune; some have continuing infections. Think of them as "non-survivors" dying slowly.)...Also the special cases like Influenza & common cold-- you do get permanent immunity , but only against the strain that infected you. New mutant strains are technically new viruses.

It remains to be seen if CoV-19 will mutate sufficiently over time to confer permanent immunity or not, but it's a real good bet, based on available data, that natural immunity will last longer and cover more mutants than the artificial vax.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Evons hubby said:


> Most people develop a natural immunity by being exposed to said disease. Do I need to be vaccinated for measles?


I know how people can be born with or can develop natural immunities through mother's milk and/or through exposure but you didn't answer my question. Read my question again. 

The question was - How do you know if you have a natural immunity to anything?

.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Paumon said:


> I know how people can be born with or can develop natural immunities through mother's milk and/or through exposure but you didn't answer my question. Read my question again.
> 
> The question was - How do you know if you have a natural immunity to anything?
> 
> .


I had the measles, been exposed several times since, never got them again. Now, my question.., do I need vaxxed for measles?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Paumon said:


> I know how people can be born with or can develop natural immunities through mother's milk and/or through exposure but you didn't answer my question. Read my question again.
> 
> The question was - How do you know if you have a natural immunity to anything?


I can't prove my natural immunity. 
I can't prove I won't lose control of my temper and kill someone.
Without evidence of either, it is no one else's business, yet some are making it just that.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

fireweed farm said:


> Try to not go too far down that rabbit hole.


Everyday, more people seem comfortable speaking out of their glee in the fact that people are being fired, their insurance rates going up, being denied entry to public venues and on. They are called conspiracy theorists, anti vaxxers (even if they have other vaccinations). They relish in the punishment.

When it comes to wages, working conditions, taxes, etc they are glad for the government to get involved; when it comes to firing someone over the vaccine, they are pro business owner "free market" and all that.

Your leaders and your media are spreading a virus and it is infecting more and more citizens. It is a virus of hate and of schadenfreude with a booster handed out every freaking day.

What is in the rabbit hole has come out.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Just because it is a theory does not mean the conspiracy does not exist


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Paumon said:


> *Why Do People with Natural Immunity Need to be Vaccinated?*
> 
> How does anybody with natural immunity to ANY disease know that they have a natural immunity to it? If you can answer that question correctly you will understand why people with natural immunity to ANY disease still need to be immunized.
> 
> .


It's very simple. Immunity to viruses, especially Coronaviruses, is a completely natural function of a healthy immune system. As someone else posted, there are exceptions, but it is true of the vast majority of viruses. I had a lot of head colds as a kid, just like most kids do. I asked our family doctor when I was less than 20 years old why I got so many colds. He told me not to worry because I would get fewer and fewer as I got older because I would never get the same one twice due to immunity and the only ones I would get are new mutations. He was spot on. I got fewer and fewer until now neither my wife or I have had a head cold in several years. A study in Israel showed that natural immunity from COVID is 7 times better than the vaccine immunity because the vaccine only creates antibodies to the spike protein of a virus but natural immunity teaches the immune system to recognize multiple strands of DNA in a virus instead of just one. The spike protein of COVID mutated in the Delta variant and that is why so many vaccinated people still get infected. Some people argue that antibodies to COVID wane over time and that is true for both vaccines and natural immunity but tests have shown natural antibodies are still strong after 8 months, so we don't yet know how long they persist in the blood. But they never talk about the long term immunity provided by other functions of the immune system, like T-cell immunity.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Why do people with natural immunity need to be vaccinated?

$$$$$$$$

duh.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Herd immunity is the goal of Vaccination campaigns. We know that previous infection is not a barrier to new infections. Adding to each person's immunity to slow and hopefully stop transmission is the ultimate goal of Vaccination.


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

doc- said:


> .but almost EVERYONE eventually will run up a big medical bill at least once.


Especially if someone else is paying.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Think of viral immunity like this-- Facial recognition-- You see the guy's face for the first time-- ears, nose, eyes, eye brows, lips, chin etc etc. Once you see him, you'll never forget him. He could get a nose job, but you'll still recognize him...BUT-- If you're only shown a picture of his nose to remember, you may recognize him later, but if he gets a nose job, you won't.

That's the difference between natural immunity and especially this vax which only presents one of the dozens of antigens in the native virus to your recognition system.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

emdeengee said:


> Doc - I get my information from real doctors not conspiracy fantasists,


What's clear to me is that antivaxxers are sincere in their belief. They honestly believe that they have insider information that scientists and physicians don't have. There is nothing scientists can say, there is no study, and there is no report that will change their minds. They would sooner take the word of hard right-wing politicians than believe a scientific study. That's because in addition to having insider information, they also believe that there is a grand conspiracy to get us to take a vaccine that will harm us, and possibly make it easier to control us.

The sad fact is that the anti-vaxx movement will cost lives. As for their own health, they believe they probably won't get covid, and even if they do get it the odds of dying from covid are miniscule. And that's true, they'll probably get away with it. But across the country many unvaccinated Americans will die from covid, even otherwise young healthy adults will die.

I accept that for most of us getting vaccinated is an individual choice, but it's still sad that so many unvaccinated people will have to die when an effective, safe and free vaccine is so readily available to Americans.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

painterswife said:


> Herd immunity is the goal of Vaccination campaigns. We know that previous infection is not a barrier to new infections. Adding to each person's immunity to slow and hopefully stop transmission is the ultimate goal of Vaccination.


Some countries have figured out that approach will not work with current vaccines because these vaccines do not stop infections and the virus will become endemic and require multiple vaccinations every year. The UK is saying it is best to get vaccinated and then catch the virus to build natural immunity. They are even saying the Delta variant may be a good thing because it is building natural herd immunity. Another problem with relying on vaccines that do not prevent infection is the possibility they will promote even more infectious and virulent variants.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Nevada said:


> What's clear to me is that antivaxxers are sincere in their belief. They honestly believe that they have insider information that scientists and physicians don't have. There is nothing scientists can say, there is no study, and there is no report that will change their minds. They would sooner take the word of hard right-wing politicians than believe a scientific study. That's because in addition to having insider information, they also believe that there is a grand conspiracy to get us to take a vaccine that will harm us, and possibly make it easier to control us.
> 
> The sad fact is that the anti-vaxx movement will cost lives. As for their own health, they believe they probably won't get covid, and even if they do get it the odds of dying from covid are miniscule. And that's true, they'll probably get away with it. But across the country many unvaccinated Americans will die from covid, even otherwise young healthy adults will die.
> 
> I accept that for most of us getting vaccinated is an individual choice, but it's still sad that so many unvaccinated people will have to die when an effective, safe and free vaccine is so readily available to Americans.


What's clear to me is that folks like you cling to everything government tells you like it is gospel. Wake up. There are many countries in the world with capable scientists and many of those countries have handled the virus much better than we have.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Herd immunity is the goal of Vaccination campaigns. We know that previous infection is not a barrier to new infections. Adding to each person's immunity to slow and hopefully stop transmission is the ultimate goal of Vaccination.


Then we need to develop a vaccine that slows transmission Or increases immunity!


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

poppy said:


> Some countries have figured out that approach will not work with current vaccines because these vaccines do not stop infections and the virus will become endemic and require multiple vaccinations every year. The UK is saying it is best to get vaccinated and then catch the virus to build natural immunity. They are even saying the Delta variant may be a good thing because it is building natural herd immunity. Another problem with relying on vaccines that do not prevent infection is the possibility they will promote even more infectious and virulent variants.


The vaccines do stop transmission of infections in the majority. Yes there are break through infections. We still need the vaccines.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nevada said:


> I accept that for most of us getting vaccinated is an individual choice, but it's still sad that so many unvaccinated people will have to die when an effective, safe and free vaccine is so readily available to Americans.


a vaccine that doesn’t prevent a disease isn’t effective.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> The vaccines do stop transmission of infections in the majority. Yes there are break through infections. We still need the vaccines.


Apparently the cdc has not seen the information your have. 

Please notice the words suggest, less likely, potentially.

“The risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus. Early data suggest infections in fully vaccinated persons are more commonly observed with the Delta variant than with other SARS-CoV-2 variants. However, data show fully vaccinated persons are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2, and infections with the Delta variant in fully vaccinated persons are associated with less severe clinical outcomes. Infections with the Delta variant in vaccinated persons potentially have reduced transmissibility than infections in unvaccinated persons, although additional studies are needed.”









Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)


CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.




www.cdc.gov




.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Nevada said:


> What's clear to me is that antivaxxers are sincere in their belief. They honestly believe that they have insider information that scientists and physicians don't have.


Then it is not clear to you at all. It is a trust issue. You trust the government. Many do not.



Nevada said:


> The sad fact is that the anti-vaxx movement will cost lives.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> a vaccine that doesn’t prevent a disease isn’t effective.


That's not true. While it's still possible to get covid after vaccination, a 95% effective vaccine provides excellent protection in preventing disease. I know that there is no reference that you will accept, but that's the consensus of the scientific and medical communities.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> We know that *previous infection* is not a barrier to new infections.


We also know that we can replace the bolded words with “vaccination”, and the sentence remains true.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Nevada said:


> What's clear to me is that antivaxxers are sincere in their belief. They honestly believe that they have insider information that scientists and physicians don't have. There is nothing scientists can say, there is no study, and there is no report that will change their minds.


I know that CNN and Fauci would have you marginalize any dissenting view, but, if the medical community was so united in their view of Covid and the “vaccine”, why is the state of NY having to threaten to bring in National guardsmen to stand in for all the medical professionals being fired for refusing to take the “vaccine”? Is that not really happening, or is it just another inconvenience to the narrative that you can selectively choose to ignore?

Saying that “scientists and physicians” don’t agree with our take on the situation is horribly disingenuous. There are LOTS of scientists and doctors who say that Covid is being exaggerated, the vaccine is not worth it and being deployed in a dangerous manner, and that the treatments being applied to Covid are inappropriate. Lots of doctors and scientists are also being silenced, either by deplatforming or by pressure from the organizations from which they draw their pay. If Fauci and Facebook’s positions on Covid were so universally rational, why would opposing views need to be suppressed?

Your position is weak because their position is weak, and trying to marginalize opposing positions shows exactly how weak and nonsensical it is.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Evons hubby said:


> a vaccine that doesn’t prevent a disease isn’t effective.


100% false if you are talking about COVID vaccines.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I know that CNN and Fauci would have you marginalize any dissenting view, but, if the medical community was so united in their view of Covid and the “vaccine”, why is the state of NY having to threaten to bring in National guardsmen to stand in for all the medical professionals being fired for refusing to take the “vaccine”? Is that not really happening, or is it just another inconvenience to the narrative that you can selectively choose to ignore?


What specialized knowledge about vaccines do you believe nurses have? Where do they get it, and why is it more reliable than the scientific consensus?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> That's not true. While it's still possible to get covid after vaccination, a 95% effective vaccine provides excellent protection in preventing disease. I know that there is no reference that you will accept, but that's the consensus of the scientific and medical communities.


It’s not 95 percent effective in preventing disease, it helps with symptoms severe enough to require hospitalization.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

All the apocalyptic books and movies I have seen that include zombies are based on a pathogen that spreads around the world and turns humans from normal to flesh eating monsters. If you are bitten by one then you turn into a zombie as well.

Covid-19 is a terrible pathogen that has killed nearly 5 million people around the world in just 18 months. 700,000 Americans alone. The total world figures are not complete as so many poor countries cannot do the autopsies and test required to prove Covid-19 for all the people who are dying in countries where there is no medical help in the countryside and small village. This was the same iwith the Spanish Flu epidemic. No one knows just how many died.

So are the non-vaccinated people in danger of turning into the Walking Dead? This seems to be the case as 75% of the very ill and dead around the world are not vaccinated. Higher percentage in poor countries. And the original Covid-19 virus continues to mutate.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I was taught to just say no to communists. Even when they pose as doctors and scientists. As a valueless member of society, in other words essential whipping boy for the elitists that could get paid to set at home, I was infected before it made the news. I have floated along using my own wit, and a natural system of disease control that has been evolving for millions of years. Not being a disgusting lard body helped, it's not something I can afford to be. A lot of worthless, scared human beings were sure glad to see my unvaccinated tail as a saved them from one existensial crisis after another during the whole event that started as a pandemic. It's way past a pandemic by the way, now an endemic situation, falling right into it's place with colds and flu.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> What specialized knowledge about vaccines do you believe nurses have? Where do they get it, and why is it more reliable than the scientific consensus?


Are you an RN, doctor, researcher? I believe those mentioned, who have been dealing with covid daily, have much more knowledge and experience than you will ever have, why are they refusing this vaccine? Because they have seen much higher rates of bad reactions than are being reported. Anecdotally, i was in the hospital last Sunday. What i was told, by the staff there, contradicts what you and the cdc are parroting. Ymmv


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Nevada said:


> What specialized knowledge about vaccines do you believe nurses have? Where do they get it, and why is it more reliable than the scientific consensus?


Seriously? What specialized knowledge do Wolf Blitzer, Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates have? THEY are your “scientific consensus”. And, it’s not just nurses that are refusing the shot. People of every stripe and trade are refusing it. There are many, many doctors out there who say they don’t want the shot because they’ve already had Covid, and they’d prefer to hold onto their natural immunity. You and many others don’t hear about them because CNN won’t interview them, Facebook deplatforms them, and the administrators of their hospitals threaten to fire them.

Why? Why does your side need that, if your position is so true and virtuous? Everyone who agrees with Fauci is rational and entitled to an opinion, and everyone who disagrees,regardless of whether they’re a doctor or not, is just some crack-pot right-winger?

If yours and Fauci’s view really is the consensus, why were Fauci and Biden so cock-sure that we needed mandatory boosters, yet the FDA overwhelmingly disagreed? The view you’ve espoused is not nearly as universal as those who crafted it for you told you it was, and you weaken it in the eyes of others every time you insist it is.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Seriously? What specialized knowledge do Wolf Blitzer, Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates have? THEY are your “scientific consensus”. And, it’s not just nurses that are refusing the shot. People of every stripe and trade are refusing it. There are many, many doctors out there who say they don’t want the shot because they’ve already had Covid, and they’d prefer to hold onto their natural immunity. You and many others don’t hear about them because CNN won’t interview them, Facebook deplatforms them, and the administrators of their hospitals threaten to fire them.
> 
> Why? Why does your side need that, if your position is so true and virtuous? Everyone who agrees with Fauci is rational and entitled to an opinion, and everyone who disagrees,regardless of whether they’re a doctor or not, is just some crack-pot right-winger?
> 
> If yours and Fauci’s view really is the consensus, why were Fauci and Biden so cock-sure that we needed mandatory boosters, yet the FDA overwhelmingly disagreed? The view you’ve espoused is not nearly as universal as those who crafted it for you told you it was, and you weaken it in the eyes of others every time you insist it is.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Are you an RN, doctor, researcher? I believe those mentioned, who have been dealing with covid daily, have much more knowledge and experience than you will ever have


How does caring for people who are ill provide specialized knowledge about vaccines?


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Nevada said:


> How does caring for people who are ill provide specialized knowledge about vaccines?


How does running a social media network, or reading the “news” off a teleprompter?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> why are they refusing this vaccine?


Why are a lot more nurses getting the vaccine than refusing it?


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Why are a lot more nurses getting the vaccine than refusing it?


Why is anything counter to the pro-vaccine narrative being censored and deplatformed?

_Hint: That question is also your answer._


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> How does caring for people who are ill provide specialized knowledge about vaccines?


Uh, because their around those patients all day. Dont doctors have to do internships? They see what works and what doesn't. They deal with the vaccinated and unvaccinated. They have much more knowledge than cnn or you will ever have. I find it odd that you will take the word of a talking head that has never had any experience with treating covid patients, over that of doctor's and nurses who have been treating patients for almost 2 years. Fauci has never had a patient, hes just a highly paid beurocrat who had some training decades ago, and can't make up his mind as to what should be done. You did read my post from the DOJ about the Harvard researchers, 2 of whom were scientists with the peoples republic of China, sneaking vials of viruses out of the country for the Wuhan lab and the millions of dollars that came from.....the NIH?


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Why are a lot more nurses getting the vaccine than refusing it?


They don't want to lose their jobs.
Why are some still refusing it?


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Why are a lot more nurses getting the vaccine than refusing it?


Aren't hospitals losing staff? The new New York governor is bringing in the National Guard to cover the shortages. Must be more than just a few who are refusing the vaccine.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Nevada said:


> What's clear to me is that antivaxxers are sincere in their belief....


We can turn that around and talk about the religious fervor with which the Libs think everyone must get a vax and if you don't, you're not just stupid but also evil.

If you read what I've said and not what you think I've said, you'll see the truth here-- this vax is a problem, not only because it has less than perfect effects (break-thru infections, still allows many asymptomatic vaxed to spread the bug, etc) but also because it presents only one antigen to the recipient, so theoretically just one mutation and it becomes useless.

Now add to that the slow deployment-- It was ready for use last August, but for obviously political reasons, it was delayed until Dec, then the Libs expressed distrust in it until they took office, at which point the Conservatives resisted it....

...So now, a full year after its deployment, we still only have half of Americans vaccinated-- The natural infection has spread almost as fast. Add to that the natural mutation to a less virulent form and any improvement in our over all status in regards the epidemic may be attributed to Nature alone and not necessarily the vax.

Conclusion-- It should be a personal choice. Those at high risk of contacting the infection &/or suffering worse damage from it probably ought to get the vax. Other can justifiably take their chances with nature....Some (mark my words here) like those under 30 or so, particularly the young kids, are going to be better off without it....Gov Fine Coiffure of CA, I believe, unfortunately, has made a grave mistake by demanding it of grammar school kids--- Many more serious side effects than beneficial effects will occur in that demographic.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> Why are a lot more nurses getting the vaccine than refusing it?


To keep their job and paycheck


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

doc- said:


> …Now add to that the slow deployment-- It was ready for use last August, but for obviously political reasons, it was delayed until Dec, then the Libs expressed distrust in it until they took office, at which point the Conservatives resisted it....


This is the one point in your post that I disagree with. Of course there are exceptions, but, by and large, only one side made it political.

Prior to the election, roughly equal shares of conservatives and liberals were skeptical of the vaccine. After the election, most of the conservatives who were skeptical remained skeptical, and many have slowly opened up to it as data about its relative safety developed. For the most part, conservatives didn’t seem to care who was pushing in favor of the vaccine. Their position is/was their position, and they’re the only ones who can change it. 

On the other hand, a large contingent of the left turned on a dime. The moment big-Tech and big-media switched positions (and we all know exactly when that happened), so did they.

It’s almost as if the majority of one side was following the science, and the majority of the other was following the politics.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Here's who we're dealing with.

Why Life Jackets Should Be Mandatory! - YouTube


----------



## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

barnbilder said:


> I remember way back when we treated a respiratory virus with bed rest and plenty of fluids instead of communism.


Maybe you should visit Russia or China and see what communism is. America , Canada and a few other countries are the greatest countries in the world. I been to many countries and American and Canada is number one. If you don't like it in American move.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Until the overlords decide to vaccinate the illegals entering the country in the tens of thousands I am having a difficult time taking their hair on fire rhetoric seriously. It seems that they shouldn't be shipping all there people all over the country if there was such a danger from the un-vaccinated.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

101pigs, I think you misunderstood his post.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

101pigs said:


> Maybe you should visit Russia or China and see what communism is. America , Canada and a few other countries are the greatest countries in the world. I been to many countries and American and Canada is number one. If you don't like it in American move.


We want to keep America as we like it, that is a point some seem to miss. Current administration does not.


----------



## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

no really said:


> Until the overlords decide to vaccinate the illegals entering the country in the tens of thousands I am having a difficult time taking their hair on fire rhetoric seriously. It seems that they shouldn't be shipping all there people all over the country if there was such a danger from the un-vaccinated.


Hear, hear!


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

First of all, you cannot compare the covid vaccine to the measles vaccine. The measles vaccine was developed to prevent measles. Yes, there are breakthrough measles cases. The CDC even says so on it's webpage for the measles vaccination. Then go to the covid webpage and read how breakthrough cases are seriously underreported because they are not being tracked. The CDC cannot give information on the percent of breakthrough cases because they do not have that information. Apparently there is no information on the true number of breakthrough cases because only cases where hospitalization and death occur are being reported. The CDC says there is *evidence* that vaccination may make illness less severe. They do not say there is _PROOF_ the vaccine makes illness less severe.






COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC


Information and resources to help public health departments and laboratories investigate and report COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases.




www.cdc.gov





Plain and simple, the CDC dropped the ball on the vaccine experiment reporting and has refused to pick it up. In a proper study all breakthrough cases would have been tracked and reported. Instead the CDC stopped nearly all testing and quarantine for vaccinated people. They didn't suggest it until there were reports of vaccinated people spreading covid. Even now it is only suggested that vaccinated people get tested and quarantine if they have covid symptoms.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nevada said:


> That's not true. While it's still possible to get covid after vaccination, a 95% effective vaccine provides excellent protection in preventing disease. I know that there is no reference that you will accept, but that's the consensus of the scientific and medical communities.


It’s been my understanding that the vaccines don’t prevent one from getting or transmitting the disease, it just reduces the systems. If you have evidence otherwise please share. I’ve not heard it.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> It’s been my understanding that the vaccines don’t prevent one from getting or transmitting the disease, it just reduces the systems. If you have evidence otherwise please share. I’ve not heard it.


Try this.

*In the state of California, those who are unvaccinated are eight times more likely to get COVID-19 as opposed to those who are fully vaccinated. *



https://www.recorderonline.com/news/unvaccinated-eight-times-more-likely-to-get-covid-than-vaccinated/article_be2aab9e-1bbe-11ec-91b4-2fabeb58e3b5.html


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Redlands Okie said:


> We want to keep America as we like it


Who is "we" and what is it about America that you want to preserve?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Quarantine the sick? What will they think of next?


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Let's see some reports about how likely the recovered are to get covid again. 






Huh, still nothing but crickets.

Oh, wait, there was this one study;









Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19...


This report describes COVID-19 reinfection among vaccinated and unvaccinated persons in Kentucky.




www.cdc.gov


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Who is "we" and what is it about America that you want to preserve?


What is it about America that you want destroyed?


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Why are a lot more nurses getting the vaccine than refusing it?





GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Why is anything counter to the pro-vaccine narrative being censored and deplatformed?
> 
> _Hint: That question is also your answer._


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nevada said:


> Who is "we" and what is it about America that you want to preserve?


Freedom would be nice to keep.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nevada said:


> Try this.
> 
> *In the state of California, those who are unvaccinated are eight times more likely to get COVID-19 as opposed to those who are fully vaccinated. *
> 
> ...


Interesting. Thanks.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Nevada said:


> What specialized knowledge about vaccines do you believe nurses have? Where do they get it, and why is it more reliable than the scientific consensus?












What “specialized knowledge” does Jeff Bezos have about this virus, NV?


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

…duplicate


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> View attachment 100498
> 
> 
> What “specialized knowledge” does Jeff Bezos have about this virus, NV?


Youtube has a set policy for information contrary to the positions of the WHO and local health authorities. In fact here it is:





__





COVID-19 medical misinformation policy - YouTube Help


The safety of our creators, viewers, and partners is our highest priority. We look to each of you to help us protect this unique and vibrant community. It’s important you understand our Community



support.google.com





You will notice that under "Treatment Misinformation" Ivermectin is categorically prohibited.


*Categorical claims that Ivermectin is an effective treatment for COVID-19 *
So if someone wants to tout the benefits of Ivermectin he will have to find a platform other than Youtube to make that point. Whoever posted that video should have known that he was breaking the rules.

But how does Jeff Bezos relate to this?


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Youtube has a set policy for information contrary to the positions of the WHO and local health authorities. In fact here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly, but re-stating the issue is not answering the issue. During a pandemic, the preeminent expert on Ivermectin (with very specific scientific knowledge about its antiviral capabilities) published a video on possible benefits of ivermectin in reference to that pandemic. YouTube (controlled by Jeff Bezos) saw fit to make it their policy to censor anyone speaking in favor of ivermectin. This is just one example of hundreds.

You asked the question “why are more nurses taking the vaccine than are refusing it?” My answer is was that the side that is in favor of the vaccine is also censoring any narrative that is counter to their pro-(only)-vaccine position, and asked why that is.

Your response acknowledged that they are censoring any counter-narrative, but failed to address why, or how that might translate into more nurses getting the vaccine than refusing it.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> YouTube (controlled by Jeff Bezos) saw fit to make it their policy to censor anyone speaking in favor of ivermectin.


Youtube s owned by Google. Other than contributing video to his own youtube channel, I'm not aware that Bezos has any connection to youtube.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Immaterial. NV, you are awash in the minutiae.

The INVENTOR of Ivermectin was CENSORED by YouTube for “not understanding the science.”

I wish you would stop. I am embarrassed for you.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The INVENTOR of Ivermectin was CENSORED by YouTube for “not understanding the science.”


I"d like to see that from YouTube.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Go look for it.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Nevada said:


> I"d like to see that from YouTube.


We could put fish hooks in your eyelids and use a pulley system with bricks to hold them open and you wouldn't see it. Too bad they don't make a vaccine for what you have, it's a far bigger threat than the wuhan cold.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Immaterial. NV


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I"d like to see that from YouTube.


Ok. Wasted dodge, but whatever. Here you go:






Jeeze, you’re hilarious(ly sad).


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Try this.
> 
> *In the state of California, those who are unvaccinated are eight times more likely to get COVID-19 as opposed to those who are fully vaccinated. *
> 
> ...


I understand the vaccinations are helpful but you keep skirting the OP. What about those who have acquired natural immunity?


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Youtube has a set policy for information contrary to the positions of the WHO and local health authorities. In fact here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The WHO has lied many, many times. Do you even know who is at the helm there?
So you approve of them sensoring content?
Interesting? Comrade Nevada.....apparently hates our Constitution.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Nevada said:


> Who is "we" and what is it about America that you want to preserve?


If this were a discussion at The Grove, the biker bar I talked about, you'd be taking a dirt nap back in the woods right about now.

BO *TOLD *us he wanted to "fundamentally change America."...Fair enough. That begs the question of "What are the fundamentals of America?..Well, Govt of, by & for the People, for starters...Freedom of choice..The old "Don't tread on me" thing.

So, are we to understand you & BO want to take that away from us?


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

wr said:


> I understand the vaccinations are helpful but you keep skirting the OP. What about those who have acquired natural immunity?


I’ll take a swing at that, from my understanding of the “_Vaxx All the Things_” position, and, anyone on that side, please call me out if I stood up a strawman. If you can articulate that my proposed answer and response is a strawman, I’ll gladly respond to your actual point. 

Their Answer: _Those who have natural immunity from prior exposure still need to take the vaccine because data suggests that the vaccine is superior protection than what is provided by natural immunity._

I see two problems with that answer, though:

1- The data that suggests that the vaccine is superior to natural immunity is far from conclusive, and there is actually compelling conflicting data that suggests the opposite. There is even compelling data that the vaccine could retard the body’s developed natural immunity.

2- Even if we ignore Issue #1, we’re talking about a difference of margin. This is NOT an issue of Choice-A fixes the problem and Choice-B does not. If the vaccine truly is better protection than natural immunity, it is only better by x%. If we apply the “_Vaxx All the Things_” logic-gate to any number of other things in our lives, we immediately and conclusively fall into a totalitarian reality.

People who drink any alcohol at all are x% more likely to drink-and-drive than people who drink no alcohol- therefore we should ban all alcohol.

People who own a firearms are x% more likely to shoot someone than people who do not- therefore we must ban all firearms.

People who eat meat are x% more likely to experience cardio-vascular disease than strict vegetarians- therefore we must ban all meat.

People who use MeWe are x% more likely to espouse extremism than people who use Facebook- therefore we must ban Facebook alternatives.

I know that many in the _Vaxx All the Things_ camp think that any claims of forced vaccinations are just conspiracy theory, but it truly is a difference of margin, and that’s even only if we assume that the vaccine actually is x% better than natural immunity. If that is all we need in order to force people to do something they don’t want to do, then the examples above are not conspiracy theory. They’re conspiracy inevitability.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

University of Minnesota research backs vaccines after COVID-19 cases


A memory B cell specific to COVID-19 was found in greater quantities in people with prior coronavirus infections who were vaccinated.




www.startribune.com





"New University of Minnesota research is contesting a key argument against COVID-19 vaccination — that people with prior coronavirus infections don't need further immunization to protect themselves.

Comparing blood samples following COVID-19 vaccinations in 48 participants, the U researchers found that everyone gained key memory B cells capable of producing antibodies that fight off the coronavirus, but people with previous infections gained five times more of those cells.

And in the world of immunology, more is better, said Marc Jenkins, a co-author and director of the Center for Immunology at the U Medical School. "There are some people who maybe had a prior infection and think, 'Well, I'm good to go,' and they certainly have some immunity. But this study shows if they complete the vaccination series they have a lot of immune potential."


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

https://news.yahoo.com/study-finds-huge-perk-getting-183038429.html





A new study shows people in high-transmission settings have high levels of protection if they've been vaccinated and had COVID-19. (Photo: VioletaStoimenova via Getty Images)
A new study suggests the vaccine can provide a great benefit to those who have had COVID-19.
The research examined an incident where the delta variant tore through a Texas prison, infecting three-quarters of the incarcerated people there. Nearly 80% of those infected were fully vaccinated, most with the Pfizer shots. But while the new study shows that breakthrough cases can absolutely happen in high-risk settings like prisons and jails ― where it’s often impossible to maintain physical distance and where proper ventilation is a major concern ― it also contained some good news.
First, the COVID-19 vaccines largely prevented severe illness, even in the face of delta. Four of the 172 people who caught the coronavirus were hospitalized during the outbreak. Three were unvaccinated.
- ADVERTISEMENT -

And by far the lowest attack rate was among fully vaccinated people who’d also been previously infected with COVID-19 — “highlighting the importance of vaccination, even among persons with previous infection,” argued the authors of the study, published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention last week.
One limitation of the study is that the pool of people who had been infected with COVID-19 and who also had been vaccinated was relatively small.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Post of the day!!


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Nevada said:


> Try this.
> 
> *In the state of California, those who are unvaccinated are eight times more likely to get COVID-19 as opposed to those who are fully vaccinated. *
> 
> ...


BS and you know it. It is impossible for them to know that unless they test every person every week. Asymptomatic people can and do catch and spread the virus.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Studies indicate that 100% of people that die in a car crash will never catch COVID.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Evons hubby said:


> Studies indicate that 100% of people that die in a car crash will never catch COVID.


In today's environment, it may show up as the cause of death. The CDC shows thousands that had intentional and or unintentional injuries.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

po boy said:


> In today's environment, it may show up as the cause of death.


I’d say you’re right… if you’re unvaxxed!


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> And in the world of immunology, more is better, said Marc Jenkins, a co-author and director of the Center for Immunology at the U Medical School. "There are some people who maybe had a prior infection and think, 'Well, I'm good to go,' and they certainly have some immunity. But this study shows if they complete the vaccination series they have a lot of immune potential."


That speaks directly to my point. Thank you.

This is one study that suggests that vaccination on top of natural immunity improves immunity. There have been links posted here that suggest the opposite. The doctor in this pro-vaccine study acknowledges that those who’ve recovered from Covid “_certainly have some immunity_” and also says “_more is better_”.

So, we’re being told to accept forced/coerced vaccinations, against the individuals’ will, because the vaccination MAY be better; how much better, we don’t know.

That’s a ridiculous and insidious standard to use to force people to take drugs they don’t want.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Evons hubby said:


> I’d say you’re right… if you’re unvaxxed!


Yea, u won't go to Heaven either


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

po boy said:


> Yea, u won't go to Heaven either


Ive got a feeling it won’t be my vax status that keeps me out!


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

wr said:


> I understand the vaccinations are helpful but you keep skirting the OP. What about those who have acquired natural immunity?


*"Natural immunity can be spotty. Some people can react vigorously and get a great antibody response. Other people don't get such a great response," says infectious diseases expert Mark Rupp, MD. "Clearly, vaccine-induced immunity is more standardized and can be longer-lasting." *


About a third of covid infections don't produce antibodies. 
Natural immunity fades more quickly than vaccine immunity.
Natural immunity alone is weak.









COVID-19 natural immunity versus vaccination


If you’ve had COVID-19 before, does your natural immunity work better than a vaccine?




www.nebraskamed.com


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> Ive got a feeling it won’t be my vax status that keeps me out!


What if God tells you, "I sent the vaccine. Why didn't you take it?"


----------



## snowshoehair (Jul 3, 2008)

Illness + vaccine is just "belt and suspenders." 
I'm convinced the vaccine worked for me. I took the Moderna early this year and just recently came down with what I thought was a cold, but after noticing that I had a low grade fever, got tested and found I had covid. I'm higher risk.... 64 yo, obese, HTN, pre-diabetic, asthmatic... and I do believe things would have gone much, much worse if I hadn't had the vaccine. Surviving doesn't mean much if a person is saddled with long haulers' syndrome. I don't consider surviving covid a win if I need a double lung transplant to stay alive.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nevada said:


> What if God tells you, "I sent the vaccine. Why didn't you take it?"


Well, glad to see you’re coming around…. Trump gave us the vaccine. He’s not god… but he’s close!


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

snowshoehair said:


> Illness + vaccine is just "belt and suspenders."
> I'm convinced the vaccine worked for me. I took the Moderna early this year and just recently came down with what I thought was a cold, but after noticing that I had a low grade fever, got tested and found I had covid. I'm higher risk.... 64 yo, obese, HTN, pre-diabetic, asthmatic... and I do believe things would have gone much, much worse if I hadn't had the vaccine. Surviving doesn't mean much if a person is saddled with long haulers' syndrome. I don't consider surviving covid a win if I need a double lung transplant to stay alive.


Interesting. I took the polio vaccine… I’m convinced it worked coz I never got polio. Same with small pox. I wish we had a vaccine for COVID that worked!


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

A brick in a washing machine bouncing on a trampoline.


Thirty-seven seconds of all the things you should never do.




www.wimp.com


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> Interesting. I took the polio vaccine… I’m convinced it worked coz I never got polio. Same with small pox. I wish we had a vaccine for COVID that worked!


I took the covid vaccine and never got covid, so that means it works..


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I declined the Covid Hysteria injection, and I haven't gotten Covid. That works, too.

Wash your hands. Stand 6 feet back from your computer or cell phone.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nevada said:


> I took the covid vaccine and never got covid, so that means it works..


Only if everyone that takes it don’t get COVID. The poster I responded to came down with COVID after getting the “vaccine”. Lotta that going on.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Nevada said:


> I took the covid vaccine and never got covid, so that means it works..


Reading this bit of a failed logic train wreck gave me cold chills.

Good grief.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I've never been in a fatal car crash, so my insurance works.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I've never been possessed by demons, so being baptized works.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I've never died from alcohol poisoning, so Alcoholics Anonymous works. (never have been to an AA meeting, either)


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Nevada said:


> *"Natural immunity can be spotty. Some people can react vigorously and get a great antibody response. Other people don't get such a great response," says infectious diseases expert Mark Rupp, MD. "Clearly, vaccine-induced immunity is more standardized and can be longer-lasting." *
> 
> 
> About a third of covid infections don't produce antibodies.
> ...


Study Tit-For-Tat:



> Israeli researchers discovered that immunity acquired through infection from COVID-19 is superior to immunity from the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. The study also found that fully-vaccinated but uninfected people were significantly more likely to have a “breakthrough” COVID infection than people who had previously been infected and recovered from the disease.
> 
> “This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalisation caused by the Delta variant,” .







__





Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections


Background Reports of waning vaccine-induced immunity against COVID-19 have begun to surface. With that, the comparable long-term protection conferred by previous infection with SARS-CoV-2 remains unclear. Methods We conducted a retrospective observational study comparing three groups...




www.medrxiv.org





You keep taking the “_the science is settled and it agrees with me and CNN_” approach, but it hasn’t been earned. There is legitimate, compelling data that opposes the data that you think “settles” the issue. You frequently say “doctors and scientists agree” when they don’t.

You’re saying, “_we know the answer, and it says ‘vaccinate’._” I’m saying “_the data we have now is inconclusive, and we don’t know the answer_.” My providing a study that shows the opposite of yours proves your position wrong. Your providing a study the opposite of mine doesn’t disprove my position because I’m acknowledging that WE DON’T KNOW THE ANSWER.

You’re willing to get behind those who would force the vaccination on everyone, based on what you think you know, but call ‘fact’. Your TV tells you only that which supports their preferred narrative, and openly censors dissenting views and data. It may seem “settled” to you, but if you’d open your eyes and switch on your brain, you’d see that you’re trying to force others to do what you’ve been told to believe by programmers who unabashedly try to hide anything counter to it.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I wasn't bit by a snake in Ireland, so St. Patrick worked.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> I took the covid vaccine and never got covid, so that means it works..


My friend took the vaccine and died from Covid. Does that mean it doesn't work?


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

painterswife said:


> University of Minnesota research backs vaccines after COVID-19 cases
> 
> 
> A memory B cell specific to COVID-19 was found in greater quantities in people with prior coronavirus infections who were vaccinated.
> ...


The guy should think a little deeper before he shoots off his mouth....One more time--

Long term immunity is conferred by the strength of THE ANAAMNESTC RESONSE.

Circulating Abs at any given time merely tells you how many Abs are circulating at that instant in time.....If you had a tetanus shot, for instance, 8 yrs ago, your circulating Ab levels are probably pretty low. If you take a booster shot, the levels go up pretty high for a short time. That doesn't mean you have any better immunity. If you hadn't taken the booster but did contact tetanus, your levels would shoot up quickly and prevent illness anyway....The booster shot does just that-- it stimulates (boosts) the memory cells, just like a challenge from the actual bug would do.


If you had a CoV infection, then take the shot, it's not too amazing that your Ab levels would also rise temporarily after the shot (or that they would rise if you came in contact again with someone spreading the bug.)

Measurable circulating Abs tell you you DO have at least some immunity. Absence of circulating Abs tells you MAYBE you don't. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

It's one thing to have some knowledge, and quite another to be able to use that knowledge in a logical way...As you can see, I'm not too impressed with our "experts." I've dealt personally with many. They are propaganda machines, not independent thinkers for the most part.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I had covid and survived so it's not a big deal, along the lines of ridiculous statements. 

I would *NEVER* argue the point with someone who felt they would be better off if they got the vaccine. I have several relatives who are at high risk of serious, even fatal, complications from covid. These relatives would not survive the bout of illness that I had. I did worry about them having complications from being vaccinated, especially my son who is in the age range of those who had heart problems after vaccination. But I *NEVER* argued that they would be better off getting covid and fighting to survive it. I recall saying (IIRC, posted somewhere on this forum) I wouldn't wish that severity of illness on anyone. 

Yes, some unvaccinated people have very few symptoms. Yes, vaccinated people can still die from covid. Everyone who gets it falls somewhere between the 2 extremes. Each person needs to make the choice based on their own health and beliefs. Just telling people to get the shot _because_ _I said so_, is as ineffective as telling someone they were wrong to have received the shot.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

For all of you claiming there is a scientific consensus on vaccinated the recovered Wuflu patients, don't forget:


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

doc- said:


> The guy should think a little deeper before he shoots off his mouth....One more time--
> 
> Long term immunity is conferred by the strength of THE ANAAMNESTC RESONSE.
> 
> ...


You may not be impressed with the information but the OP asked for info. I just presented it. It is up to each individual to do the work for themselves and weigh it.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Danaus29 said:


> I had covid and survived so it's not a big deal, along the lines of ridiculous statements.
> 
> I would *NEVER* argue the point with someone who felt they would be better off if they got the vaccine. I have several relatives who are at high risk of serious, even fatal, complications from covid. These relatives would not survive the bout of illness that I had. I did worry about them having complications from being vaccinated, especially my son who is in the age range of those who had heart problems after vaccination. But I *NEVER* argued that they would be better off getting covid and fighting to survive it. I recall saying (IIRC, posted somewhere on this forum) I wouldn't wish that severity of illness on anyone.
> 
> Yes, some unvaccinated people have very few symptoms. Yes, vaccinated people can still die from covid. Everyone who gets it falls somewhere between the 2 extremes. Each person needs to make the choice based on their own health and beliefs. Just telling people to get the shot _because_ _I said so_, is as ineffective as telling someone they were wrong to have received the shot.


I agree and feel that people should do what's best for them and I also agree that when some hear covid, it's assumed that the person will obviously end up in ICU and likely die and others lean the complete opposite direction. 

I would prefer that people voluntarily vaccinate rather than being forced because it's not having the desired effect.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> I agree and feel that people should do what's best for them and I also agree that when some hear covid, it's assumed that the person will obviously end up in ICU and likely die and others lean the complete opposite direction.
> 
> I would prefer that people voluntarily vaccinate rather than being forced because it's not having the desired effect.


Not sure about Canada but mandate vaccinations are working down here.









‘Mandates Are Working’: Employer Ultimatums Lift Vaccination Rates, So Far


In California and New York, where mandates for health care workers have gone into effect, many are complying.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> I had covid and survived so it's not a big deal, along the lines of ridiculous statements.
> 
> I would *NEVER* argue the point with someone who felt they would be better off if they got the vaccine. I have several relatives who are at high risk of serious, even fatal, complications from covid. These relatives would not survive the bout of illness that I had. I did worry about them having complications from being vaccinated, especially my son who is in the age range of those who had heart problems after vaccination. But I *NEVER* argued that they would be better off getting covid and fighting to survive it. I recall saying (IIRC, posted somewhere on this forum) I wouldn't wish that severity of illness on anyone.
> 
> Yes, some unvaccinated people have very few symptoms. Yes, vaccinated people can still die from covid. Everyone who gets it falls somewhere between the 2 extremes. Each person needs to make the choice based on their own health and beliefs. Just telling people to get the shot _because_ _I said so_, is as ineffective as telling someone they were wrong to have received the shot.


Again, let's think a little deeper....The people who get the sickest from CoV seem to be the ones who exhibit "The Cytokine Storm." That's an over-reaction of the immune system, rather than a more balanced "Goldilocks" reaction. It probably has to do with genetics more than anything else....So--

A guy contacts CoV, has the severe overreaction, but survives...Now he takes the vax---It's gong to challenge his immune system once again....Will it give him the Goldilocks reaction or is he in danger of another cytokine storm?

I've seen no data, no studies on the concept. It's a hypothesis that needs to be tested before recommendations can be made scientifically. Until then, they're just guessing.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

doc- said:


> Again, let's think a little deeper....The people who get the sickest from CoV seem to be the ones who exhibit "The Cytokine Storm." That's an over-reaction of the immune system, rather than a more balanced "Goldilocks" reaction. It probably has to do with genetics more than anything else....So--
> 
> A guy contacts CoV, has the severe overreaction, but survives...Now he takes the vax---It's gong to challenge his immune system once again....Will it give him the Goldilocks reaction or is he in danger of another cytokine storm?
> 
> I've seen no data, no studies on the concept. It's a hypothesis that needs to be tested before recommendations can be made scientifically. Until then, they're just guessing.


It's a hypothesis but maybe getting Covid a second time would cause a cytokine storm.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

painterswife said:


> Not sure about Canada but mandate vaccinations are working down here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Please define "working."...If you mean governmental bullying into compliance, then it's working. If you mean increased rates of vaccination, then it's working...If you mean improved health outcomes without unintended consequences, then we'll have to wait and see..


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Not sure about Canada but mandate vaccinations are working down here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeppers, and a lot of folks boarded cattle cars bound for showers too, that didn’t end well either.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

doc- said:


> Please define "working."...If you mean governmental bullying into compliance, then it's working. If you mean increased rates of vaccination, then it's working...If you mean improved health outcomes without unintended consequences, then we'll have to wait and see..


Increased vaccination rates and lowering hospital stays was the goal. Seems to be working.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Increased vaccination rates and lowering hospital stays was the goal. Seems to be working.


Increased vaccination rates mostly, lowering hospital stays questionable, destroying freedom…. Well done!


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> Increased vaccination rates mostly, lowering hospital stays questionable, destroying freedom…. Well done!


Mandatory vaccinations have been around since before you were born. Your violin has no strings.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Not sure about Canada but mandate vaccinations are working down here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Our labour laws are a bit different than the US so it's a lot more complicated. _If _I were to fire my unvaccinated driver, I will be forced to pay him a healthy severance package because our federal and provincial governments have spelled out protocol for 'legal grounds to dismiss,' and those grounds have not been modified. 

I still maintain that the forced vaccinations is not a sustainable solution. Each time another vaccination is required, the cause loses credibility. 

Our vaccination passports compounded with 'mandatory' vaccinations have also brought on approximately 1% increase in vaccinations with unions being the most vocal dissenting voice.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Your violin has no strings.


but my fiddle makes em dance with joy!


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> Our labour laws are a bit different than the US so it's a lot more complicated. _If _I were to fire my unvaccinated driver, I will be forced to pay him a healthy severance package because our federal and provincial governments have spelled out protocol for 'legal grounds to dismiss,' and those grounds have not been modified.
> 
> I still maintain that the forced vaccinations is not a sustainable solution. Each time another vaccination is required, the cause loses credibility.
> 
> Our vaccination passports compounded with 'mandatory' vaccinations have also brought on approximately 1% increase in vaccinations with unions being the most vocal dissenting voice.


Mandated vaccinations have proven through history to be sustainable.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Mandated vaccinations have proven through history to be sustainable.


Especially ones that work!


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

snowshoehair said:


> Illness + vaccine is just "belt and suspenders."
> I'm convinced the vaccine worked for me. I took the Moderna early this year and just recently came down with what I thought was a cold, but after noticing that I had a low grade fever, got tested and found I had covid. I'm higher risk.... 64 yo, obese, HTN, pre-diabetic, asthmatic... and I do believe things would have gone much, much worse if I hadn't had the vaccine. Surviving doesn't mean much if a person is saddled with long haulers' syndrome. I don't consider surviving covid a win if I need a double lung transplant to stay alive.


I'm glad you did well. The vaccine may have helped you but perhaps not. Most people with comorbidities survive fine unvaxxed. I know old people with severe comorbidities who only got a mild case. Comorbidities only increase the risk a bit higher than everyone else.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> I took the covid vaccine and never got covid, so that means it works..


Haha, lame. Your also afraid to go out in the world too.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Mandated vaccinations have proven through history to be sustainable.


That depends on what vaccinations and if religous and medical exemptions are accepted. I haven't seen many mandated flu vaccinations, as a example of something that will require yearly forced vaccinations. 

The only successful vaccinations that require boosters require a finite number of boosters and covid vaccines seem to require a minimum of an annual booster. People will start pushing back as soon as the numbers start declining.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> That depends on what vaccinations and if religous and medical exemptions are accepted. I haven't seen many mandated flu vaccinations, as a example of something that will require yearly forced vaccinations.
> 
> The only successful vaccinations that require boosters require a finite number of boosters and covid vaccines seem to require a minimum of an annual booster. People will start pushing back as soon as the numbers start declining.


Flu vaccinations are mandatory for many employees.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Flu vaccinations are mandatory for many employees.


Not mine! We don't mandate any medical procedures. Our employees have....
Freedom of choice! You know, 4th amendment!


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Mandatory vaccinations have been around since before you were born. Your violin has no strings.


Cool.
Can you name a single historical mandatory vaccine that was as “leaky” as Covid’s, and that was mandated to treat an illness with a mortality rate as low as Covid’s?

I’ve yet to see anyone arguing against all vaccines. Everyone I’ve seen arguing against this vaccine is against _this_ vaccine.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> View attachment 100503


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Cool.
> Can you name a single historical mandatory vaccine that was as “leaky” as Covid’s, and that was mandated to treat an illness with a mortality rate as low as Covid’s?
> 
> I’ve yet to see anyone arguing against all vaccines. Everyone I’ve seen arguing against this vaccine is against _this_ vaccine.


Flu vaccines. They are mandated by employers every year.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Where?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Flu vaccines. They are mandated by employers every year.


None that I've ever worked for and none of my family in health services have ever been forced to take the flu vaccination and to date, I've never heard of children being forced to take a flu vaccination in order to attend school. 

I know some employers ecourage it but I've never heard of anyone being terminated if they didn't comply.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Just because you have not be subject to a flu vaccine mandate by an employer does not mean it does not happen.

John Hopins requires it.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Just because you have not be subject to a flu vaccine mandate by an employer does not mean it does not happen.
> 
> John Hopins requires it.


All their stores or just the one in Moscow?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> Increased vaccination rates and lowering hospital stays was the goal. Seems to be working.


If the government would clearly state we want more vaccinations so as to lower hospital rates, and stick to repeating the statement hen it would probably help a lot. Logical steps and statements help.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> Mandatory vaccinations have been around since before you were born. Your violin has no strings.


Good point, problem is many of those vaccinations were researched and tested for 20 or 30 years to be sure it helped more than harmed. Current covid vaccine is now apparently undergoing the start of that long time research. Using the general public as a test subject. Got a bit more time to go.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Redlands Okie said:


> If the government would clearly state we want more vaccinations so as to lower hospital rates, and stick to repeating the statement hen it would probably help a lot. Logical steps and statements help.


Logical steps? Like forced vaccinations for all our citizens but illegal foreigners get a free ride?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> Try this.
> 
> *In the state of California, those who are unvaccinated are eight times more likely to get COVID-19 as opposed to those who are fully vaccinated. *
> 
> ...


Nevada did you read the article you linked? Nothing in the article suggest where or how they got the title. 

I did notice……..
Tests that diagnose and attribute problems due to any symptom of covid has been the standard for over a year and covid was at fault as a result. Now they are pointing out that hospitalization or death may not be due primarily to covid, in fact it might be UNRELATED !!!!!! 

Thats a interesting way to keep data skewed. Seems the math depends on the desired result. 



“It is important to note that a post-vaccine case may have been hospitalized for a condition UNRELATED to COVID-19 but were tested for COVID-19 upon admission,” the state said.


There have been 500 people in the state who have been fully vaccinated who have died of COVID-19, the state reported. Out of 23.1 million people who are fully vaccinated that represents about one in 50,000. About those deaths the state said, “However it is unknown if the primary cause of death in these cases was COVID-19 or if the were other contributory or alternate causes.”

And just to be clear, “IF THE WERE” was how the supposed expert posted the article.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Redlands Okie said:


> And just to be clear, “IF THE_*RE*_ WERE” was how the supposed expert posted the article.



I am aware the actual wording of the article was quoted. Too bad they don't use proofreaders instead of fuzzy logic writers.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Evons hubby said:


> Logical steps? Like forced vaccinations for all our citizens but illegal foreigners get a free ride?


Do not forget, our recent Afghanistan imports get free dental as well BEFORE they are released into the public.


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

Redlands Okie said:


> Do not forget, our recent Afghanistan imports get free dental as well BEFORE they are released into the public.


Is that before or after they molest 8 year olds?


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

All these jabbermaniacs ....... aren't they the same ones that were saying there is no way the Covid bioweapon was man-made?


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Flu vaccines. They are mandated by employers every year.


That’s a very interesting choice on your part. There may be/have been employers who required employees to take an annual flu vaccine, but those are obviously very, very few, and far between, as the responses here have shown. 

Even more interesting is that OSHA apparently weighed in on that very issue in 2009. This is a letter from OSHA (the organization being used to enforce Biden’s 100+ mandate) to a congresswoman in response to that congresswoman’s inquiry on employer mandated flu vaccination on behalf of a constituent.





__





OSHA's position on mandatory flu shots for employees. | Occupational Safety and Health Administration







www.osha.gov






> …However, although OSHA does not specifically require employees to take the vaccines, an employer may do so. In that case, an employee who refuses vaccination because of a reasonable belief that he or she has a medical condition that creates a real danger of serious illness or death (such as serious reaction to the vaccine) may be protected under Section 11(c) of the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 pertaining to whistle blower rights.


Still want to use that as your analog?


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Here's a Project Veritas video showing 3 Pfizer scientists opinion but I'm sure they don't know as much as CNN.

(1) Pfizer Scientists: ‘Your [COVID] Antibodies Are Better Than The [Pfizer] Vaccination.' #ExposePfizer - YouTube


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

Flu vaccines are real vaccine. Covid and its 'vaccines' are bioweapons.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Study suggests Pfizer/BioNTech antibodies disappear in many by seven months


BioNTech CEO says COVID booster likely needed by mid-2022 to protect against future mutations of the virus




calgaryherald.com






It looks like there could be quite a few mandatory vaccinations in our future.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

wr said:


> Study suggests Pfizer/BioNTech antibodies disappear in many by seven months
> 
> 
> BioNTech CEO says COVID booster likely needed by mid-2022 to protect against future mutations of the virus
> ...


For some. I will not comply.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> That’s a very interesting choice on your part. There may be/have been employers who required employees to take an annual flu vaccine, but those are obviously very, very few, and far between, as the responses here have shown.
> 
> Even more interesting is that OSHA apparently weighed in on that very issue in 2009. This is a letter from OSHA (the organization being used to enforce Biden’s 100+ mandate) to a congresswoman in response to that congresswoman’s inquiry on employer mandated flu vaccination on behalf of a constituent.
> 
> ...


I stand by my info.









Could you be fired for refusing a flu shot?


When it's about other people's health, your own concerns may have to take a backseat




www.cbsnews.com





Horizons Healthcare Services fired pregnant nurse Dreonna Breton for refusing a flu shot. Sounds harsh, right? But the flu is no laughing matter, and people who are receiving health services should expect to get better, not worse


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Lewis Carol prepared us for such times as these. I had always wondered what a Jabberwocky was, but now it's quite clear.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)




----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Can we keep tossing politicians in for two weeks? Just two weeks. To flatten the curve.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I stand by my info.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If Pfizer’s own study is accurate, it likely explains the 22% vaccinated in our hospitals and may better explain those breakthrough cases that keep getting shrugged off.

They are way sicker than the narrative presents and they are dying too. 

According to the article I shared, we may be looking at vaccinations every 3-6 months and if that is the case, the vaccination program has a serious PR problem.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

painterswife said:


> Increased vaccination rates and lowering hospital stays was the goal. Seems to be working.


I've pointed out the wave pattern of infections/deaths many times. It's not all that clear (not at all) that vaccines altered that in any way. The Delta mutation could account for all, or at least most of the changing infection & death rates.



painterswife said:


> Mandatory vaccinations have been around since before you were born. Your violin has no strings.


We're not arguing if local jurisdictions may mandate things for public health...We're arguing (a) The Feds have no jurisdiction, and (b) there is no science to back it up (particularly the vax even if proof of previous infection, and (c) the no exceptions rule.



painterswife said:


> Flu vaccinations are mandatory for many employees.


It's mostly in the healthcare field and child care fields...It's mandated to help minimize liability risks, not for any health benefits.

The fluvax is a good case in point-- Only 25% of Americans take it (75M)...Only 10% of unvaxed get the flu (30 M), so, of the 75M, only 7.5M need to be protected....and the vax is only 50% effective (4M still get the flu)...and most importantly--- the vax does NOT reduce the death rate.

In summary for Fluvax-- you need to vaccinate 20 people for every case you prevent, and odds are 1000 to 1 that pt will survive anyway...If he dies, he was ready to die and the flu does him a favor...Old proverb in Medicine-- Pneumonia is the Old Man's friend.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It would seem the ineffectiveness of a drug is being blamed on those that haven't taken it.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The Fauci has indicated that it is too soon to say whether families should be directed to stay home and away from family for the 2021 holidays.
I'll be suggesting his science to several in laws this fall.


----------



## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

The CDC just came out with their recommendations for the upcoming holiday season. Among the recommendations are using a fan - actually two. One exhausting inside air outside, the other, bringing fresh air inside. Just set the fans in opposite windows. 

Yeah, and like I'm going to do that in 32 degree weather with foot deep snow on the ground while watching my heating bill go through the roof.

With recommendations like that, how can one really believe the CDC has thought things through?


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> It would seem the ineffectiveness of a drug is being blamed on those that haven't taken it.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> I stand by my info.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, then. The best precedent you could come up with was a grasped-straw. 

Noted.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Ok, let me get this straight.
getting vaxxed keeps you from getting COVID.
unvaxed people can get COVID.
vaxxed people are worried they will catch COVID from the unvaxxed people.
what the heck did they get vaxxed for?!?!


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Ok, then. The best precedent you could come up with was a grasped-straw.
> 
> Noted.


 I could come up with more but am aware that it would never be enough. The fact is that mandatory vaccine is the norm for the US. So far legal according to the Supreme Court.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The Cutter incident destroyed public confidence in vaccination for a very long time. The screw ups generated from this one will ensure another generation of anti-vaxxers.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

painterswife said:


> I could come up with more but am aware that it would never be enough. The fact is that mandatory vaccine is the norm for the US. So far legal according to the Supreme Court.


Most know better than that but there is only so much you can do with a weak hand. You deserve Es for efforts. Thank you for that much.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> Most know better than that but there is only so much you can do with a weak hand. You deserve Es for efforts. Thank you for that much.


 Why of why do so many not know the history of their own country. 









Spectrum Health worker could lose her job for refusing flu shot on religious grounds


Spectrum Health made seasonal flu shots mandatory for employees beginning last summer.




www.mlive.com





A respiratory therapist at Spectrum Health Helen DeVos Children's Hospital could be fired after refusing a seasonal flu shot Spectrum began requiring this summer.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Vjk said:


> Flu vaccines are real vaccine. Covid and its 'vaccines' are bioweapons.


According to Marriam-Webster mRNA preparations are vaccines. Where did you learn that they aren't?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The Long History of Vaccine Mandates in the United States


Vaccines against smallpox during the Revolutionary War may have saved the Continental Army from defeat. It’s one example of how mandates have protected the health of Americans for more than two centuries.




www.governing.com





"It began with George Washington in 1777, less than one year after the U.S. declared independence from Great Britain. During the Revolutionary War, smallpox was the biggest threat to the Continental Army, threatening to inflict far more damage on the troops than the British forces. While 18th-century Americans didn’t fully understand the science behind smallpox, they knew that it seemed to break out in crowded areas — like big cities or military camps — and killed one-third of all who contracted the disease.

Doctors in Massachusetts first deployed a crude vaccine in the 1720s, and leading figures, including Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and Martha Washington, received the inoculation. To administer the vaccine, doctors lanced a pustule of an infected patient and then sliced the same knife under the skin of a healthy individual. The vaccinated patient usually contracted a milder case of smallpox, rendering them immunized against potentially deadlier strains in the future. Despite the life-saving benefits of the vaccine, many officials distrusted the science and blamed the inoculation for spreading the disease. Under this assumption, the Continental Congress had banned inoculations in 1776. "

"In 1905, the Court declared that the Massachusetts law did not violate the Constitution and affirmed that “in every well-ordered society charged with the duty of conserving the safety of its members the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint.” They also determined that mandatory vaccinations were neither arbitrary nor oppressive if they do not exceed what is “reasonably required for the safety of the public.”


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> vaxxed people are worried they will catch COVID from the unvaxxed people.


I'm fully vaxxed with 2 shots plus a booster. I'm not worried about the currant variants, but new variants that are vaccine resistant are a concern. Of course new variants fester in the unvaxxed communities around the world. There isn't enough vaccine for the entire world, so the danger of a vaccine variant continues to exist.

In the meantime vaccines are our best bet.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I here they're shipping some of those un-vaccinated illegals to Nevada, better get another shot or three. 🤣


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nevada said:


> I'm fully vaxxed with 2 shots plus a booster. I'm not worried about the currant variants, but new variants that are vaccine resistant are a concern. Of course new variants fester in the unvaxxed communities around the world. There isn't enough vaccine for the entire world, so the danger of a vaccine variant continues to exist.
> 
> In the meantime vaccines are our best bet.


Since the vaccines aren’t doing the job… maybe we should be looking at a cure?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Nevada said:


> I'm fully vaxxed with 2 shots plus a booster. I'm not worried about the currant variants, but new variants that are vaccine resistant are a concern. Of course new variants fester in the unvaxxed communities around the world. There isn't enough vaccine for the entire world, so the danger of a vaccine variant continues to exist.
> 
> In the meantime vaccines are our best bet.


I would think an engineer would be able to look at data and understand it. Show me the data that proves the Delta variant is more infectious or deadly than the previous ones. In the Delta wave neither infections or deaths reached the same level as the previous wave. And you can't give vaccinations credit for that because the same happened in most countries with very low vaccination rates. In all cases the virus comes and goes in waves.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> I'm fully vaxxed with 2 shots plus a booster.
> In the meantime vaccines are our best bet.


That is your best bet because that is what you believe. Please continue to do as you choose.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> According to Marriam-Webster mRNA preparations are vaccines. Where did you learn that they aren't?


Did you throw out all of your pre 2021 editions?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Dear Comrade Nevada, this has already been discussed. The “definition” was changed after this new plague was released on us.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> I could come up with more but am aware that it would never be enough. The fact is that mandatory vaccine is the norm for the US. So far legal according to the Supreme Court.


Really? You can come up with “more” wide-spread mandatory vaccines that are as leaky as the Covid one for ailments with as low a mortality rate as Covid? You haven’t come up with even one yet, but I’d love to the “other ones”.

The discussion was about our government making many employers mandate this vaccine, and you said there were lots of mandated vaccines. I asked you to name one as leaky and for as minor an ailment, and the only one you could come up with was one that has an extremely rare mandate- which obviously misses the point of this discussion about wide-spread mandates.

Let’s see the others.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Evons hubby said:


> Since the vaccines aren’t doing the job… maybe we should be looking at a cure?


At the very least we should be looking for better treatments.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Vaccine definition from the American College Dictionary, copyright 1958


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Nevada said:


> I'm fully vaxxed with 2 shots plus a booster. I'm not worried about the currant variants, but new variants that are vaccine resistant are a concern. Of course new variants fester in the unvaxxed communities around the world. There isn't enough vaccine for the entire world, so the danger of a vaccine variant continues to exist.
> 
> In the meantime vaccines are our best bet.


No. Spontaneous mutation and natural selection is the best bet we got...Future mutations will be even les likely to cause serious disease. Look up "Fitness Landscapes." It's all in the math....You pit your faith in vaccines. Others put their faith in rabbits' feet or crucifixes, but it's really all the same thing.


BTW- to any concerned-- If you have to quibble about semantics, you've lost the argument.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Actually, debating the semantics CAN win or lose a formal debate. 

We are in an environment where many people use words that they don’t understand.

Understanding that denotation, connotation, the placement of a every word, and correct punctuation in a sentence is critical to successful communication.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Actually, debating the semantics CAN win or lose a formal debate.
> 
> We are in an environment where many people use words that they don’t understand.
> 
> Understanding that denotation, connotation, the placement of a every word, and correct punctuation in a sentence is critical to successful communication.


Spaces count too….. godisnowhere


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Sigh....

Think I'll have a T-shirt made that says:

_I am not your pin cushion._

End of discussion.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Actually, debating the semantics CAN win or lose a formal debate.


Is winning what you're here for?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It's been interesting to watch Alberta companies try and work through the vaccines and the companies having the greatest success in finding some kind of balance between maintaining their employees while encouraging vaccinations are those who have shied away from forced vaccinations. 

Atco seems to be leading the pack with on site nurses available to vaccinate and any employees who are vaccinated or become fully vaccinated recieves a $1,000.00 vaccination bonus.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Is winning what you're here for?


What is your goal?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Comrade Nevada, no. I was simply replying to the previous post about semantics.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

This is interesting. Vermont has one of the highest vaccination rates in the country at 76% vaccinated. A hospital just reported that 76% of their COVID deaths in September were vaccinated. Only 8 out of 33 deaths were unvaxxed.

76% of September Covid-19 deaths are vax breakthroughs – Vermont Daily Chronicle


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

^^^ Be careful about drawing conclusions-- small sample size in a relatively sparsely populated area . Clustering &/or chance can play a big role in the numbers counted.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> I'm fully vaxxed with 2 shots plus a booster. I'm not worried about the currant variants, but new variants that are vaccine resistant are a concern. Of course new variants fester in the unvaxxed communities around the world. There isn't enough vaccine for the entire world, so the danger of a vaccine variant continues to exist.
> 
> In the meantime vaccines are our best bet.


It’s simple, you need another booster for the new variants. Even with your shots you can still get whatever covid variant is around. And it might change a bit as a result of your booster shot. So another shot will be needed. Not really a big issue. 

Meanwhile those that are not concerned do not affect you.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Louisiana health system charging workers $200 for unvaccinated spouses

Per month……










Louisiana health system charging workers $200 for unvaccinated spouses


Employers pass on costs of being unvaccinated to workers -- and insured family members -- to avoid hits to bottom line.




www.cbsnews.com


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Really?
> 
> 
> And, also… Really?!?


Well, actually that is trew. When you are "vasccinated" against covaids, you get sick afterwards, but you are "protected". Clear now?


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Redlands Okie said:


> It’s simple, you need another booster for the new variants. Even with your shots you can still get whatever covid variant is around. And it might change a bit as a result of your booster shot. So another shot will be needed. Not really a big issue.
> 
> Meanwhile those that are not concerned do not affect you.


and the boosters are needed because the shot dosn't stop the covaids and which creates 'varients" which require more shots which are free at $3000 per shot.

And those who had to flu? They are fine, except for big bad joey who is 'gunna get them


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

removed


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> When you are "vasccinated" against covaids, you get sick afterwards, but you are "protected".


I've had three Pfizer shots and haven't gotten sick.



B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> In NH, 76% of covaids deaths are peeps with the shots


Reference?


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> I've had three Pfizer shots and haven't gotten sick.


That is science.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> In NH, 76% of covaids deaths are peeps with the shots


Not according to this;









Breakthrough infections continue to make up small percentage of overall COVID-19 cases in New Hampshire


New data released by New Hampshire health officials shows that breakthrough cases of COVID-19 continue to make up a small percentage of overall cases.




www.wmur.com


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

“I had three…”

Sample size is too small to be statistically significant.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Nevada, how many will you take before you start to wonder, hmm........


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

gilberte said:


> Nevada, how many will you take before you start to wonder, hmm........


Today is my 2 week anniversary for getting my Pfizer booster shot. They say that maximum protection is reached at 2 weeks. That gives me some peace of mind, which is a good thing.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Today is my 2 week anniversary for getting my Pfizer booster shot. They say that maximum protection is reached at 2 weeks. That gives me some peace of mind, which is a good thing.


For how long? When does it wear off and how will you know it is no longer effective?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> For how long? When does it wear off and how will you know it is no longer effective?


After 6 months it drops from about 95% efficacy to around 80%. I don't know if it will ever reach a point where it's no longer effective.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Effectiveness of mRNA BNT162b2 COVID-19 vaccine up to 6 months in a large integrated health system in the USA: a retrospective cohort study


Our results provide support for high effectiveness of BNT162b2 against hospital admissions up until around 6 months after being fully vaccinated, even in the face of widespread dissemination of the delta variant. Reduction in vaccine effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2 infections over time is...



www.thelancet.com





Between Dec 14, 2020, and Aug 8, 2021, of 4 920 549 individuals assessed for eligibility, we included 3 436 957 (median age 45 years [IQR 29–61]; 1 799 395 [52·4%] female and 1 637 394 [47·6%] male). For fully vaccinated individuals, effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2 infections was 73% (95% CI 72–74) and against COVID-19-related hospital admissions was 90% (89–92). Effectiveness against infections declined from 88% (95% CI 86–89) during the first month after full vaccination to 47% (43–51) after 5 months. Among sequenced infections, vaccine effectiveness against infections of the delta variant was high during the first month after full vaccination (93% [95% CI 85–97]) but declined to 53% [39–65] after 4 months. Effectiveness against other (non-delta) variants the first month after full vaccination was also high at 97% (95% CI 95–99), but waned to 67% (45–80) at 4–5 months. Vaccine effectiveness against hospital admissions for infections with the delta variant for all ages was high overall (93% [95% CI 84–96]) up to 6 months.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Nevada said:


> After 6 months it drops from about 95% efficacy to around 80%. I don't know if it will ever reach a point where it's no longer effective.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HDRider said:


> View attachment 100723


OK, you tell me then, when does it wear off and how will you know it is no longer effective?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Nevada said:


> OK, you tell me then, when does it wear off and how will you know it is no longer effective?


I don't know.

Too many lies to know


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> OK, you tell me then, when does it wear off and how will you know it is no longer effective?


We'll be able to have a better idea after the human trials are over, say another 5 or 6 years maybe.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I don't know.





no really said:


> We'll be able to have a better idea after the human trials are over, say another 5 or 6 years maybe.


That was my answer to that same question.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> That was my answer to that same question.


It's basically a crap shoot. With out the normal testing before using it on the population there may be quite a few surprises long term.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> It's basically a crap shoot. With out the normal testing before using it on the population there may be quite a few surprises long term.


The Pfizer vaccine has full FDA approval for adults, so normal testing has been done.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nevada said:


> The Pfizer vaccine has full FDA approval for adults, so normal testing has been done.


Or proper amount of bribes have been paid?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> Or proper amount of bribes have been paid?


If you're trying to ruin my day you can give-up right now. Ohio State just clobbered Maryland 66-17.

But I feel confident in the safety of the Pfizer vaccine.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> The Pfizer vaccine has full FDA approval for adults, so normal testing has been done.


Sorry, can't quite buy that line of bullspit 🤣


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> If you're trying to ruin my day you can give-up right now. Ohio State just clobbered Maryland 66-17.
> 
> But I feel confident in the safety of the Pfizer vaccine.


They say the placebo effect does have some value in certain situations.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nevada said:


> If you're trying to ruin my day you can give-up right now. Ohio State just clobbered Maryland 66-17.
> 
> But I feel confident in the safety of the Pfizer vaccine.


Not trying to ruin anyone’s day…. I presume you are referring to some type of sporting event?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Sorry, can't quite buy that line of bullspit 🤣


I know you can't, but I don't hold it against you.

I'm sympathetic to the fact that your generation hasn't been quite right since that MIlli Vanilli thing.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> Not trying to ruin anyone’s day…. I presume you are referring to some type of sporting event?


Ohio State got off to a difficult start, getting beat by Oregon. But they're back up to #7 now, and that should improve even more in the new poll Tuesday.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I know you can't, but I don't hold it against you.
> 
> I'm sympathetic to the fact that your generation hasn't been quite right since that MIlli Vanilli thing.


Not much on Millie Vanilli, more Metallica and R.E.M.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Not much on Millie Vanilli, more Metallica and R.E.M.


Just kidding. To be honest I don't really know anything about them except for the lip-syncing.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

no really said:


> It's basically a crap shoot. With out the normal testing before using it on the population there may be quite a few surprises long term.


Would it really matter? 
_"A more recent analysis estimates *128,000 Americans die each year* as a result of *taking medications as prescribed *– or nearly five times the number of people killed by overdosing on prescription painkillers and heroin."_


https://health.usnews.com/health-news/patient-advice/articles/2016-09-27/the-danger-in-taking-prescribed-medications#:~:text=A%20more%20recent%20analysis%20estimates,on%20prescription%20painkillers%20and%20heroin


.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> The Pfizer vaccine has full FDA approval for adults, so normal testing has been done.


Short term testing amongst the population under the emergency action has been done. Now if only we had some non biased and accurate information on its results so far. Testing will continue while looking for longer term side affects as well as the search for non biased reporting. 
Meanwhile I do thank you for participating.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Evons hubby said:


> Not trying to ruin anyone’s day…. I presume you are referring to some type of sporting event?


College football game. OSU is doing real good this year.

Since student vaccination is or shortly will be required at most universities, and teams are required to forfeit games if they can't play due to covid, I wonder if they are still testing for covid.


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## rockpile1 (Aug 24, 2016)

I had COVID and Fully Vaccinated. Was told by my Doctor getting the Vaccination was the worst thing I could do having Chronic Blood Clots.

My wife has had COVID and her first shot but had a bad reaction so she didn't have the second but our Doctor said she is good.

She gives COVID Vaccine.

big rockpile


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> College football game. OSU is doing real good this year.
> 
> Since student vaccination is or shortly will be required at most universities, and teams are required to forfeit games if they can't play due to covid, I wonder if they are still testing for covid.


Thank you!


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Nevada said:


> I know you can't, but I don't hold it against you.
> 
> I'm sympathetic to the fact that your generation hasn't been quite right since that MIlli Vanilli thing.


You seem to be such a strong supporter of the vaccine.....

You musty be really thankful that Donald Trump was President and such a strong leader and cut thru all the silly regulations and got the vax available after just a few months. Had the Dems been in charge. they would have imposed even more obstructive regs and it wouldn't have been licensed for another 5 years.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> Just kidding. To be honest I don't really know anything about them except for the lip-syncing.


There is some irony in that you are referring to lip synching when it comes to the Fauci Pep Rally support.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

rockpile1 said:


> Was told by my Doctor getting the Vaccination was the worst thing I could do having Chronic Blood Clots.


Of the three vaccines, I've only read about the J&J vaccine having reported blood clot issues, and that was rare instances involving women.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

There is a link between J&J and blood clots in people taking heparin.









Blood Clotting, COVID-19 and Vaccines


Since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, blood clotting has been identified as a side effect of SARS-CoV-2 and later as an extremely rare side effect of some COVID-19 vaccines. Yazan Abou-Ismail, MD, a hematologist at University of Utah Health, answered questions about the association of...




healthcare.utah.edu


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Myocarditis or pericarditis has been reported with the Pfizer and Moderna in those under 30.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Funny covid government has come to our small tourists town. On fb locals are pissed that gift shops restaurants are taking temp asking if your vaccinated and making you wear masks.. Im like you only really need to go get gas and grocery shop at the only grocery store we have. Drive through mcc d. Wv has 40% vaccine rate last time i looked. My county in red most weeks. School still open with masks no temps taken.
I watch what is going on with so many being fired here and elsewhere for non compliance its scary. Having to choose your health or employment. Choose to send your child to school or home school. Even placing granny in a nursing home is a life and death decision.
When grocery stores or gas pumps demand you prove vaccine this all will stop. We really dont need to go in a gift shop. shop in person for xmas. Have big family gatherings. Go to bars. We.do need access to food gas and doctors without proving anything to anyone. My doctors office is now not seeing you if you dont have.neg covid test. Sad since we dont have rapid tests. Takes a week to 10 days. By that time you may need the hospital.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

I don' thin k it would be wise to see that doctor anyway. He's quite obviously an ignorant fool.--Think of the logic-- He won't see you if you're sick??? Does he screen all pts for flu, common cold, TB, etc etc before allowing a visit??

The taking of temps is strictly a grandstand play meant to make us think "they care." Half of people with CoV don't run a fever, and the vast majority of people with fevers don't have CoV. 

Some really stupid people making the rules for us.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> Only 1 reason I can think of. To make the vaccinated statistics look better than they actually are. Over 1/3 of all Americans have had Covid-19. When added to the number of people fully vaccinated, we should be well past herd immunity, but we aren't.
> 
> By the government counting them as unvaccinated, they can continue to say we are having so many new cases because of the high unvaccinated rate, when that doesn't appear to be the truth.


To perpetuate the lie that these vaccines work.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Forcast said:


> Funny covid government has come to our small tourists town. On fb locals are pissed that gift shops restaurants are taking temp asking if your vaccinated and making you wear masks.. Im like you only really need to go get gas and grocery shop at the only grocery store we have. Drive through mcc d. Wv has 40% vaccine rate last time i looked. My county in red most weeks. School still open with masks no temps taken.
> I watch what is going on with so many being fired here and elsewhere for non compliance its scary. Having to choose your health or employment. Choose to send your child to school or home school. Even placing granny in a nursing home is a life and death decision.
> When grocery stores or gas pumps demand you prove vaccine this all will stop. We really dont need to go in a gift shop. shop in person for xmas. Have big family gatherings. Go to bars. We.do need access to food gas and doctors without proving anything to anyone. My doctors office is now not seeing you if you dont have.neg covid test. Sad since we dont have rapid tests. Takes a week to 10 days. By that time you may need the hospital.




“When grocery stores or gas pumps demand you prove vaccine this all will stop.”


No it will not, wishful thinking. The shots do not stop covid or its spreading. They might help with the hospital load depending on your area and how bad the mismanagement of your local medical providers are.


I just have to ask, are the out door (amongst all of that fresh air) gas pumps going to have a camera or some system that can scan your vaccine card before it will accept your credit card ? Just how small are the cars and how close are the pumps where you fuel up at?


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