# Help me think: online courses about knitting



## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

I know there are some online knitting courses already, such as the ones offered on Craftsy. Now, those are professionally produced and with big name people - and cheaper than going to a workshop, for sure, with travel costs and all that. Personally, I wouldn't take them as they are too pricey for me - I could buy a couple of books or DVDs for that much money.

Thus it occurs to me that people might want to do some 'coached training' in a less expensive kind of way ... and I have been wanting to do some workshop type things, but travel and setting up days to teach and all that is a lot to organize, and who's gonna take a class from a mystery person named Frazzlehead, anyway?

So I thought ... *what if I offered an online course? *

I used to teach (software). I wrote courseware, too. I have the technical skills, I want to share what I know, and I think I can do this in a way that is affordable for people and easy to access - at least for those who have good computer connections, which I realize isn't everyone.

Anyhow ... I found a tool that I can use for online course authoring. It won't cost me a fortune to put up a course, and that means I can offer them for not too much money.

The first course I am contemplating is "demystifying lace knitting". I know that I was terrified to try lace - I thought for sure it must be really hard. The Dash of Colour shawl is an ideal intro to lace knitting ... so I thought, what if I did a course that explains knitting in general terms, shows you how to do yarnovers and the k2tog and ssk stitches you need, helps you through a swatch and blocking, and then has a guided knitalong for the Dash of Colour shawl?

Given the tool I've been investigating, the course would need to have a start date and an end date (not open ended, though I can make it a six month thing, though you could go faster if you wanted to). By having a start and an end, we get a 'cohort' of students and I think that helps people to stay focused. (I may be able to find different tools, still looking.)

Regardless, you can message the teacher, have a discussion with other students, and download files (so the pattern, for example, would be included in the course).

*Would you take a class like this? *(Ok, I know most of you already KNOW how to knit and a bunch of you already knit Dash of Colour ... but ... theoretically.)

*And if so, what would you pay?*

I have ideas for a bunch of other courses done this way, too ... if people think they might be workable. What kinds of courses would *you* take online? And for how much?

Thanks to all in advance for input - be honest! Be blunt! Please!


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Well,,,,

My biggest issue would be the simple fact that there are tons of free tutorials and videos on-line.
Anyone who SERIOUSLY wants to learn to knit has a plethora of choices already.

It is a neat idea, but I am not sure there would be a market for something like this.
Maybe I am wrong though. 
Where would you find recruits for your classes?

Just my opinion and I am a very self motivated learner so I am not average.

I will be interested to see read what others think of your idea.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

I know, I'm a totally self-directed learner too ... it boggles my mind that people pay for classes for things I can learn on my own, the same way I can't quite imagine why people pay for patterns that I can 'see' how it is done by one look at the FO. But not everyone *does* learn on their own, not everyone wants to hunt YouTube for videos and try things and frog and try again and frog, the same way not everyone wants to (or can) figure out how something simple is made (like Dash of Colour - which any experienced knitter could make up out of their head). 

I dunno. You are right, there is a lot out there that is free. That's why I can't see anyone paying very much for a course offered this way - not $50, like Craftsy charges - though people are, apparently, buying those too.

This is why I'd only consider using a tool that does not cost me anything up front. All I invest is my time, and that's not a waste as I can use the materials if I teach a class locally (live and in person).

Eagerly awaiting more conversation...


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Good point, WIHH - the interaction is a key point that is missed with just watching videos or reading.

That's at least one thing online courses DO offer - you get to talk to your instructor. You can ask questions and get answers - like we do here, when we help one another with projects and stuff. Not the same as in person, but a step up from just reading and watching videos.

Of course, WE all have each other. But, there are people out there who haven't even heard of Ravelry and HT or would be too shy to ask a question in a forum like this. 

And for the record, I'm not a Master Spinner candidate person myself, either. I love the classes at Olds, and I love to learn, but I don't learn *that way*. Too ... constraining. I'm more of a 'try it and see what happens' girl, but I have met a LOT of people who just freak out at the thought of attempting something with yarn that they might "get it wrong".

The course would be for people like that ... not people like me.


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## Lythrum (Dec 19, 2005)

I'm another self-teacher, and agree that the tutorials available cover basic knitting. What I do think might be helpful to you is if you did maybe a companion online classes for your book patterns, or a DVD. For example, I might get stumped on a particular pattern that I am working on, and would like to see a video of how it goes together. I might know all of the stitches, but sometimes getting it to work would be easier with a video. As to how much I would be willing to pay, it really depends. If I bought a book, I might be willing to pay some additional to see video tutorials, but probably not a whole lot - like maybe $10 for access to all pattern tutorials for the book. 

I think instead you might look at video tutorials as a marketing tool for your book, because it might make people who would otherwise think they couldn't make the patterns be willing to buy the book. As long as you made sure that they would still need the book for the pattern.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Hey Lythrum, that's an interesting idea! Like a 'pay to join KAL with designer support' kind of thing.

Hmm, I shall ponder that.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Or maybe as a group of knitters. I agree their are too many free tutorials online. Im self-taught. What I would pay for is a group of knitters that could teach me something beyond the basics. Or answer questions and show me techniques, something along those lines.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Okay - not the basics, I'll assume (and specify) that you should know how to cast on, knit, purl, bind off.

Here is my proposed course outline:

What is lace?
Getting started
(choosing yarn, choosing needles, using stitch markers)
Making holes on purpose
(swatching, yarn overs, k2tog, ssk)
Blocking
step by step through Dash of Colour

I know that the new knitters here locally are looking for a class like this, so working up the content is something I want to do anyway - offering it online is sort of a 'see what happens' kind of thing. Would you add more? I had thought about also adding a section on reading charts and knitting another project from a charted pattern, but I thought maybe it made more sense to split that into two chunks - one that is "get used to making holes on purpose" and another that is "now that you are used to holes and decreases, let's follow a chart and add some other interesting things".

Does that additional detail spur any further thoughts?

Thank you all for the feedback - it is very helpful!


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Sounds good to me.
I think that reading charts could almost come as an afterthought.
I have found that showing someone the chart AFTER they have done the knitting can be helpful.
Once they have done the increases and decreases by the written pattern THEN show them the chart.
They are always amazed that they DID that, and it helps to connect the 2 things.
Sort of helps to demystify the little symbols.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

I found a chart for a very simple pattern of staggered yarnovers and decreases, they made sort of a V-shaped thing that was used as the trim on a cuff.

I showed some new knitters the photo of the finished knitting and then the chart, and they could see right away how the two matched. 

Cool idea to have them do the first bit from written instructions, THEN from the chart and go 'hey, same thing!"

With the online course, I can easily make it in two parts: I was envisioning "Demystifying lace: the basics" to cover just yarnovers and decreases; then "Demystifying lace: charts and patterns" to go the next step - charts and centered double decreases and such.


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## Lythrum (Dec 19, 2005)

I think it would be a good additional resource for your physical classes. In case someone wasn't able to make a meeting, they would still be able to get the lesson.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Oh, now there's something I hadn't considered! Cool. An adjunct to live classes. Brilliant.

You guys are so helpful, thank you all!


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

frazzlehead said:


> Okay - not the basics, I'll assume (and specify) that you should know how to cast on, knit, purl, bind off.
> 
> Here is my proposed course outline:
> 
> ...


Thats it!! When do the classes start? I do want to learn how to lace. Creating patterns with y/o. Here a sweater pattern I bought
v e r y p i n k . c o m Â» Learn to Knit a Sweater &#8211; Woman&#8217;s T-shirt








I like this ladys work. She sells the pattern plus access to 6 or 7 youtube videos for $8.

Maybe charge per course? Im not sure what I mean by that either. Or pattern?

What I would like is someone to show me a technique, and then I could try it out and email pics back to see if I got it right or not- something like that.

Maybe get a group going and charge a monthly fee. 1 class per week.
I joined a yahoo clay sculpting group a long time ago, and they did something like that. Weekly classes with a focus on one particular element


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Im on my slow computer and have to post in segments.

Webcam, do you have one? I do. That could be really cool.

Doilys too. I get so far along on some of them and then get the pattern messed up and Im not sure what Im doing wrong.

Stuff like that, or along those lines.

Id pay like $10 a lesson. Or maybe $20 a month for a weekly class type lesson.
Just some ideas.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

My two cents worth.

How to read stitches (holes), kind of important in lace knitting. Lifelines, how to use them. How to rip lace and figure out where you are in the pattern (back to reading stitches/holes).


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## mamajohnson (Nov 27, 2002)

Why not do a webcast? A home business I work with does that. They have regular "meeting" times, you go to a web address, enter the code, and you are on the phone at the same time. The presenter shows a slide show (power point) and talks. The guests are muted during that time on a conference line that they dialed into. Then at the end the presenter un-mutes everyone and has question and answers. It works wonderfully.
I bet you could do that with video too. Not sure of all the technical particulars, but could probably figure it out. I would be happy to take you to one of those webcasts just so you can see it.

I am a self taught person also, doing the research, frogging etc... but there are some things I have put off because I just needed to SEE it. Or ask a little question cause I wasn't quiet sure. 

What about this - do a weekly (bi-weekly, monthly?) webcast of about an hour or so, charge by the webcast, say 3$, 5$, 10$, whatever, and they get the login code when they get a receipt. If they have a blue tooth or headset of some sort or speaker phone they can knit with you during the webcast.
If you have a well behaved crowd you wouldn't have to mute during the teaching. That would give it all the 'feel' of classroom, and yet be accessable to even those that are homebound.

And yes, I would take a class if it were on something I needed (wanted) to learn. But don't think I would do more than $20. $20 is something you can squeek out and not really miss. $50 is a chunk. I have seen some Craftsy things that I would be interested in, but the price was just something I wouldn't let go of.

ok, lots of subjects are running through my head that you could do....
socks
lace
cables
blocking
and then there is the spinning aspect
washing fiber
carding (I still need lots of help here!)
spinning
dying....
Be sure and post when you do this! I may jump in! :happy2:


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

> That would give it all the 'feel' of classroom, and yet be accessable to even those that are homebound.


Right now I am somewhat housebound. I dont have a vehicle, so transpo can be a problem for me. 

In the small area Im in, there are limited classes I could take, for something around 10 a lesson. Getting there and back is a problem. 

So I would be interested in an online classroom type thing, if the price isnt too much.

Once you put on a class, maybe you can keep the price lower, and attract more people, and still make it worth your while, and others too.

I think alot of people have webcams these days. Even if not, webcams are pretty cheap to buy and install separately.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Great ideas, guys - THANK YOU!

I am writing up the course content for the Demystifying Lace right now - it's about halfway done. I like the idea of doing a webcast along with the course ... like a Q&A period, or something, though I'm not sure of the techcnical aspects (I've done them before, using other tools, which I may be able to use again just gotta look into that). I do want most of the class to be "at your leisure" so people aren't tied to a certain time of day, since everyone's schedule varies.

I will definitely add a section on reading your knitting - you're right, that's crucial to lace work. I think lifelines would go in Part 2 - I've never actually used one, but I know they are helpful. 

Keep it comin', gang, I really appreciate the help!


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## stef (Sep 14, 2002)

Hey Frazzlehead, I see I'm kind of late in answering this, but I tend to agree with most of the responses. As a recent knitter (w/i the last two to three years) I found everything I needed either through free tutorials online, library books or folks on this forum who graciously answered my questions. So, for me, especially being on a fixed income, I would not pay for online classes or even to join a physical group. There are too many people who will share their knowledge for free. Right now I am adding quilting as a craft I want to learn and am using the same resources: free you tube tutorials, library books and forum help. It's all out there from the most basic steps to advanced. 

But, it may be that you will find your own special niche that no one else is covering and can present your ideas in a unique and apealing way that will draw paying customers. 

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Thanks, Stef.

I wouldn't pay for a class myself, either - but since I know I'll likely be teaching this particular one live at some point locally, I don't mind doing up the content ... and I'll put it online and see if it goes anywhere. If it doesn't, I won't be heartbroken ... but hey, maybe it will help someone!

It won't be expensive - I'm thinking $9.99 and that'll include the pattern for Dash of Colour (which is $1.50 by itself).


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## stef (Sep 14, 2002)

frazzlehead said:


> Thanks, Stef.
> 
> I wouldn't pay for a class myself, either - but since I know I'll likely be teaching this particular one live at some point locally, I don't mind doing up the content ... and I'll put it online and see if it goes anywhere. If it doesn't, I won't be heartbroken ... but hey, maybe it will help someone!
> 
> It won't be expensive - I'm thinking $9.99 and that'll include the pattern for Dash of Colour (which is $1.50 by itself).


Thanks for not taking offense at what I said. I did not mean it to sound harsh or discouraging at all. You are obviously a gifted lady and I hope you can find lots of ways to share your knowledge. Who knows, maybe a simple 3 by 5 inch card posted somewhere offering classes will get you more students than you can handle! Especially since these kinds of crafts are making a real resurgence. I wish you the best. **


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Thanks Stef! I know there are knitters of all kinds out there ... it always puzzles me to meet someone who won't just .. try it. But, I figure maybe I can help those folks. 

I did a quick Rav search and there are several groups for beginner knitters, so I can put up an ad that targets them, too and see what happens from that. I'll also blog about it and set up a page on my website so if people are googling "learn to knit lace" or "online knitting class" they will find it.

Even if nobody signs up, it's not wasted effort because I am 95% sure the course is going to run here locally some time in the next six months, so I need the materials anyway. Doing it online has forced me to think it all through and now I have good handouts!  I also figure if I can run a class or two online, then it'll help make the live and in person class better too, and maybe there is a market for some of the other course ideas I have rolling around in my head ... 

One way to find out. 

TRY IT AND SEE! 

Which, of course, is how I became a self-taught knitter, spinner, etc. 

So, given that very few of us here are the kind who would take this class (which is totally cool) ... do you guys think $9.99 is a reasonable price for what's included?

You get pictures and explanation and links to other resources, a discussion forum where you can ask questions, the pattern for the shawl, a step by step (with photos) walk through of a swatch that shows you k2tog, ssk, and yo, a brief introduction to reading a chart, instructions for blocking, and then a 'coached knitalong' of the Dash of Colour shawl.

Reasonable price point? Too low? Too high?


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

It might end up being slightly too low a price. 
I think twenty bucks.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

People spend more than that for a single skein of yarn. Just saying.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Middle of the road: $14.99 ..?

Since they still have to buy 300 m of nice sock yarn for the shawl, and a bit more to do the swatch.


ETA here is a preview of what the online course looks like:


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Okay, 15 bucks. 

I thought they were getting rid of the single cent in Canada?


You will be answering beginner questions and your time is worth a little something.
If you make it TOO cheap you could get taken advantage of.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Well... it's up. 

$9.99 USD (you guys still have pennies) for the first iteration - the software itself is pretty new, so I don't know for sure people won't have technical issues, and I figure starting off with a lower price is a good idea. 

Details here.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

I will sign up for 9.99!! I just ordered a kindle yesterday, should be here tomorrow, so I can order your book and patterns. Ive been saving that noro yarn for something special and I think one of your shawls is the one!


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

I'm REALLY late into this conversation, but I think it's a great idea frazzle!

It's almost like the KALs here, which everyone loves - but not everyone knows about this site. Pictures are always a plus - would you have the capabilities of adding video too? 

Advertising on Ravelry is also a great idea - it seems like people on that site spend money left and right, and the price is MORE than reasonable! Great job frazzle! :thumb:


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> Along the same lines, I am also curious - but not critical as to _why_ people take the Master Spinner course. :shrug:


I can answer this, since I'm taking it! There's a few reasons why I'm taking it - one reason is that it makes me DO! I tend to read and read and read, and then not DO anything with all that information that is swimming around in my head. 

Plus, I LOVE the documentation (I'm a science teacher - I love doing experiments with my students, making comparisons, and collecting data), so this is like one giant science experiment! I've tried different techniques over the last few years, but don't remember what they looked like, so now I'll have a reference that I can add to forever. 

And it forces me out of the box - to try things that I wouldn't try. And keep track of it, so that I don't forget later :ashamed: 

So, in a nutshell, I guess it's the discipline (which I would lack otherwise!) I have been doing the worsted vs. woolen for the breed study, and have a bunch of pictures to post. It's been absolutely fascinating! Everyone needs to try this exercise!


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Thanks for the encouragement, PKBoo!

There hasn't been a great rush to the door yet, but hey, I got it written and posted and that was what I needed to do. When someone's ready, the teacher will be there. 

And yes - I can add video. I used stills rather than video, just because of the tools I happened to have at hand at the moment and because what I was doing worked fine one shot at a time, but yep, you can have movies and audio and all kinds of things in the classes.

I'm used to writing words - technical documentation that explains how to do something with software. Explaining how to do something with knitting is not a huge stretch ... and it's waaaaaaaaaaay more fun.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Very cool, Frazzle! 

Like you, I'm a self-learner and would rather spend the time to figure stuff out and the money to get the materials.

Anything to help folks gain confidence in their knitting, work, life is just the Best!


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