# Lets talk about mules



## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I have been looking at gaited mules for sooo long. I visited a couple farms on our trip south last summer, and witnessed how equines should never be raised and handled, and how they should be. I find it amusing that the guy that sold his for 10-15 thousand had a ramshackle run down place and whipped his animals to get them to work.
His mammoth jack looked like a bag of bones, and his animals were poorly housed.
The other farm, I was very impressed with everything, and their prices were but a fraction of the other guy.

Anyway..
I know the mammoth jacks are very rare, so I wonder, should I look for and buy a mule I want and be happy with only him/her as a riding and working animal, or should I buy a jack stallion and breed him to someone else's mare when I find the right one and make my own mule baby? Then I would have the ability to continue to make my own mule babies, and possibly charge for stud fee as well. 

Or maybe, due to the rarity of the mammoth jacks, I could buy a breeding pair, and then breed the jack to some other mare also. There are very few mammoths up here, and practically no gaited mules. I can't find a gaited mule breeder anywhere in this state.

Interested in opinions, experiences, and other thoughts.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It really depends on what you want. If you'd like to breed, make sure you study genetics and bloodlines so you can be sure that what you have is what people. 

Quite honestly, I ended up with a friend's stud for a couple summers and the stud and the outside mares was a breeze compared to horse owners and I'm afraid that hell will freeze over before I'd deal with that whole fiasco again.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

What are you wanting as the end result?

A single mule for your own pleasure? Or the opportunity to experiment and breed a mammoth jack to several mares and over the years see what they yield?

If you are only searching for a single mule for your own use, then you may want to avoid breeding. 

Why go through the hassle of finding and buying your own jack and then guessing what mare he'll cross well with and then have to buy or pay to lease that mare? And if you lease that mare, what if she befalls some misfortune and someone has to pay vet bills? What if they mare were to die as a result of the labor? What if the offspring produced isn't one you would care to keep? Sell it and then breed again? You're taking a gamble on whether the baby produced will be the mule you hope it will be in the 2-3 years it takes to mature. And if you were to buy a mammoth jack, are you experienced enough to handle it and any intact behaviors that come with it? Sometimes stud animals require special handling and special equipment. I know of a couple donkeys that jump the horse pasture fence just for the sheer heck of it(they jump back and forth over it all day long) and they are standard donks. Just food for thought.

To me, if you are searching for a single mule for your own use, then shop around find one you want and buy it. You will save yourself at LEAST a couple of years of time and probably considerable amounts of money(buy the mule, versus buying the jack, the mare, and then paying for training and vet bills of your new mule for at least 2 years before it is ready to ride).

Now, if you are wanting to play around with genetics and see what you can produce and have the time, money, and facilities to do it, go for it. Personally, I think it would be interesting to take a mammoth jack and cover it to some draft or warmblood mares and see what happens. But I would own the mares myself(just because I could see leasing someone's mare for breeding to be a serious headache), but may or may not own the mammoth jack(why keep and feed him year round when I only need him for a few minutes for each mare once a year?).


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I've handled two different jacks (mammoth jacks) for breeding, trained one of them (sort of) to collect so several Fox Trotter mares could be bred. The one jack was a bit 'iffy' to handle, the other, the one I trained to be collected, was an absolute love. I really enjoyed having him around. 

Smart, though. I never did convince him that the dummy mare was something that would 'work' ... didn't look like a mare, didn't smell like a mare, obviously wasn't a mare. The owner only had one Fox Trotter mare that would allow him to get within 10 feet of her, let alone mount, so we used that mare as a jump mare to collect him with, got the other 4 mares bred and then bred her.

He was never a problem to collect with a jump mare but all he would do if you led him up to the dummy mare was rest his chin on it and gaze over at the tease mare on the other side with big, brown, sad eyes.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

mammoth jacks are rare??

and just because your breeding to a gaited mare, does not mean the mule will be gaited. it certainly helps but not a guarrantee.

keep it simple and getcha a good broke proven gaited mule. and enjoy life.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

I've been riding mules for 30+ years. Never saw a need to get a gaited one. With a good mule, you don't see daylight between the rider's seat and the saddle no matter what gait you're in. Smooth as silk.

My Mammoth jack and broodmare band made a lot of great saddle mules for me. He also bred outside mares. I did hand breeding by myself. I got the Mammoth as a baby and raised him like any equine. I rode him all through his breeding years -- alone, with groups, daily rides, multiple day rides, lots of parades.

My Mammoth jack:


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

that is what I am interested in. bringing up an intact jack for riding. I would be equally happy with a mule, but the problem with those, is they can't reproduce themselves.

the reason I am looking for gaited, is I have a previous back injury. I cannot ride a horse that bounces a person in the saddle, such a a QH does.
I am having a hard time figuring out how to pick. I rode a tennessee walker and hated it. Most mule people use TW as their main cross-stock for gaited mules.

I have been looking at some jacks, really all over. I would prefer to start with a yearling or younger. How would you know which one to choose for gait if they are young? 
I'm not very conformation smart when it comes to horses, and I have to choose carefully. anyone I buy I will have to drive a long long way for.

american livestock breeds conservancy list them as threatened with only 
3000-4000 alive and only a few hundred of the pure black stock, which is really the ones I want. the red ones just don't do it for me, and I think the spotted ones are ugly.


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

Mammoth is only a size designation. Many try to call it a breed. Our American Jackstock is a compulation of about five different breeds of Jackstock. And has only been around since the late 1700's. It has even experienced a time of being close to extinction. There are alot of recessive atributes still in jackstock.
You may have a hard time finding a Mammoth Jack that is gaited. It isn't very common. Most gaited Jackstock is Large Standard or Standard size. Breeding a jack of any kind to a gaited horse has a good chance of not producing gaited offspring because a gaited jack has a different style of gait than a horse. Its more of a shuffle than a four beat.
If you apply as much money and time purchasing proven gaited mules as you would producing one, you will be dollars and time ahead by the time you set astride your gaited mule.
Standing a Jack isn't as casual as many would think. It takes alot to get one to even look at mares, let alone cover one. Their courtship processes have many differences from horses, so they have to be taught to like mares. With some jacks, they can only breed mares or jennets, not both. If you ever let a mule jack breed a jennet he may not ever go back to covering mares.
They can be kind of finicky. My grandad had one that would not breed in hand. And he never saw him cover a mare in the day, but he always had babies in the spring. He did his job a night. (pasture bred)
That isn't to say that it can't be done. I have one Jack that would breed a billy goat if he got the chance. But he's unusal. If they aren't taught correctly they are slow to breed. I have seen some that will take an hour to just get in the mood. I keep a little teaser stud. So you have that additional cost also.
Again, if you put as much time and money into finding a proven Jack as you do trying to build one from a baby, you will likely be riding the offspring of the experienced jack before you get the young jack to settle a mare.
I'm not trying to be a doubter. The reality is if you haven't been around a standing jack, you may find success rate to be quite low.
I will whole heartedly agree with Rogo about never seeing a need for a gaited mule. Most are like riding a silk handkerchief. Besides if you ride gaited stock you can only ride with gaited stock. Otherwise your always waiting for the rest of the pack or trying to hold your animal back. That doesn't make for a fun time for me.
And you can't lead a string riding a gaited animal.

Best of luck to you though.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== that is what I am interested in. bringing up an intact jack for riding. I would be equally happy with a mule, but the problem with those, is they can't reproduce themselves. ===


The Mammoth is also rare here, but as good as he was, I got tired of taking the girls to an outside jack. I went to Mule Days in Bishop, California. It's 5 days of absolute fun. I hung a sign on the front and back of my shirt each day that said "I want to buy a jack." Folks came up to me from all over the country! 

The first 3 days I saw a lot of junk. Heard quite a bit of BS, too! Then a gal came out of a class on a huge mule and said, "I have just what you want." Yeah, sure. Heard that a lot. I was sure I was going home with an empty trailer. I'm not one who settles; I'll look until I find what I want. The 13 month old had great conformation and temperament. Very gentle. I easily lifted all 4 hooves. No vet around to test semen, but I decided to take the chance and back to Arizona we went.


=== the reason I am looking for gaited, is I have a previous back injury. I cannot ride a horse that bounces a person in the saddle, such a a QH does.
I am having a hard time figuring out how to pick. I rode a tennessee walker and hated it. Most mule people use TW as their main cross-stock for gaited mules. ===


A friend is a TWH lover and insisted one day that I ride one of hers. I never moved no matter what gait we were in. Hmmm, just like a mule. When I dismounted a few hours later, it took a while to find my land legs. I couldn't walk straight for 3 days. Never understood it. I've never been sore from riding a mule and I ride for hours.

There were no TWHs in my broodmare band. I've already mentioned how smooth a good mule is. Endurance riders asked for the Arabian cross, so I had them in the band. I also had Quarter and Appy. Times were better and they sold well. 


=== I have been looking at some jacks, really all over. I would prefer to start with a yearling or younger. How would you know which one to choose for gait if they are young? ===


The mule gets its smoothness from the donkey. The Mammoth is VERY smooth. One not put together well may not be! The standard donkeys are a bit choppy. I didn't plan on riding my miniature donkey (he drove) but had to try him and he also wasn't that smooth.

The donkey doesn't move out like a mule or horse. You can get them into a trot or gallop, but they may not stay there. They conserve their energy since they don't know how long they'll be working. I prefer riding a mule.

I rode my Mammoth a LOT 'cause that's how he got his outside ladies. Back then, the Mammoth jack was considered a killer and weren't ridden, just bred. Folks figured 'if that little thing can ride him, I'm gonna breed my mare to him!' I'm a hair under 5 feet.

I taught him when to drop and when to mount the mare.

Many horses don't like donkeys unless they've been raised with them. I got a teaser, a Shetland stallion. Had the vet give him a vasectomy so he could roam the acreage free with the other stock. Geldings won't always tease. 

There were mountains on the property. A great place to raise stock and the riding stock were always in shape for any type of ride.


=== I'm not very conformation smart when it comes to horses, and I have to choose carefully. === 


I can only suggest you take someone with you who knows more than you do.


=== american livestock breeds conservancy list them as threatened with only 3000-4000 alive and only a few hundred of the pure black stock, which is really the ones I want. the red ones just don't do it for me, and I think the spotted ones are ugly. ===


Color is at the bottom of the list for me. Conformation and temperament are at the top of my list. Much more important to make great saddle mules, any equines, or any critters.

My Mammoth was 14.3 hands. Back then, Mammoths over 15 hands had awful conformation. The head-neck-back-croup just didn't go together. Legs weren't well formed. Don't know what they're like today.

I recently got a new-to-me mule and he's turned into a great riding 
partner. Can't wait to work cattle with him! My favorite trail riding are the tough mountain rides. We don't have trails here. It's all cross country.

Don't mean to offend, but are you sure you are capable to do what you're planning to do?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Just for sh..err giggles, I thought I'd look up Mammoth Jacks online. Went to Dreamhorse.com put in Mammoth Jack and put in 100 mile radius of my farm- no results, went to 200- nothing, finally put in 300 and there are no Mammoth Jacks within a 300 mile radius of my farm that advertise online anyway. Jeeze, I just wanted to look and it seems like they're all in Texas!


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Irish Pixie said:


> Just for sh..err giggles, I thought I'd look up Mammoth Jacks online. Went to Dreamhorse.com put in Mammoth Jack and put in 100 mile radius of my farm- no results, went to 200- nothing, finally put in 300 and there are no Mammoth Jacks within a 300 mile radius of my farm that advertise online anyway. Jeeze, I just wanted to look and it seems like they're all in Texas!


And in KY and TN. I don't know how many of them advertise on line but I know (personally) of at least three jacks within a 20 mile radius of our farm.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

jacks everywhere round here. and i know of a couple mammoths within 20 mins. i reckon its a regional thing.

ROGO that is a fine lookin jack. a big ol boy, he is.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Well, maybe it's a word of mouth thing around here. I know of a guy fairly local that sells mules I'll ask him next time I see him if there are mammoth jacks around here. I just assumed jacks would be like stallions and be advertised. :shrug: It's not as much fun to look this way...


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Another breed/stallion you don't see advertised as often "standing at stud" as you'd expect from the numbers are the Shetland Pony stallions. There are a lot of them, can't remember the actual breed registry numbers now, but there are quite a few of them and I think they are more numerous than Welsh Pony stallions. But if you look for a Welsh Pony stallion that ships semen and look for a Shetland Pony stallion that ships semen, you will find way more Welsh than Shetland.

I've talked to a couple of Shetland breeders who say there just aren't a lot of breeders who own mares but not a stallion and are looking for a stallion that ships semen, they tend to get into the Shetlands from a 'local' breeder and then go back to that farm to breed the mares if they don't have their own.

Maybe this is true of the jacks as well. Mule breeders either have their own or know someone local with a jack, so aren't looking for breeders so far away they have to ship semen. Consequently, in both cases, maybe all the advertising they do is local, as in flyer at the local feed stores?


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

If you haven't handle Jacks before, personally won't take the chance. And as was said before, very few Mares will accept a Jack.
Some Jacks won't even breed horses, unless they were raised with them. There is a lot of Ifs there.

Can under stand looking for a gated riding Mule. Yes, they are harder to find and spendy but from what I hear worth it.

Here are some links for you to look at if you haven't already.
http://www.mammothmules.com/donkeys.html

http://www.blueagaveranch.com/

http://www.hellscanyonmuledays.com/links.htm

http://mulesandmore.com/links2.htm

http://www.gaitedmules.com/rm_mt.htm

And the Best place to find what you are looking for...
http://www.luckythreeranch.com/links.html

http://www.luckythreeranch.com/classifieds.php


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## mamahen (May 11, 2002)

I have a haflinger mule that is coming 5 (holy cow, where does the time go!!)

She has lovely movement! Very flat kneed. He sire was a standard, and mom was a draft type haffie. Penny is almost 14 h. But that's the size I wanted. I bought her at 9 months old. I've done her groundwork, and she's a good girl.

She is being sent out to be trained this spring, just because darling hubby says I don't bounce like I used to!:shocked: I assured him I have enough padding to bounce:indif:.

http://www.diamonddmules.com/id1.html Found this breeder in OH. Take a look at the legs on their jack!! I've never seen such long legs on a donkey!


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

mamahen said:


> http://www.diamonddmules.com/id1.html Found this breeder in OH. Take a look at the legs on their jack!! I've never seen such long legs on a donkey!


Now that is a really nice saddle-type jack. I like mules, have ridden a couple and I'd actually look at one if I were looking for something to do a lot of trail riding on.


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

SERIOUSLY considering a mule. HAS to be broke and short (13-14 hands) if anyone knows of one PLEASE let me know


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

If you want to see some pretty mules and donkeys go to;
missourimuleco.com
diamondcreekmules.com
steppingoutfarms.com
garrettjackstock.com
braymoorestables.com
montanamules.com
saddledonkey.com

Starjj,
Theres some boys over to Gatlin, Tenn. The Reese brothers. They can have as many as 700 on hand to choose from. All sizes shapes and colors. They have a website but I'm not finding it right now.
If you decide to to go a little further to find one, I have a little black mule with 4 stocking legs. 10 yo. Everyone rides him. and broke to harness as well as packing. I'd like to sell him.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

It's not a case if I think I can handle a breeding animal. I'm just trying to figure out what I want. there is no one up here I can find who does the mule or donkey thing, so I am on my own.
I want an animal I can ride whenever, where ever. I need an animal I can use. I don't ride with others for pleasure, or go places to trail ride. Boring.
We have cattle, it would be trained to cut, drag and haul, probably pull in harness..an all purpose animal.

But I know I do not want a horse, or something that has high maintenance feed needs, or high maintenance shoeing needs. I want something BIG. I love long ears on any animal. I need something tough, with a smooth ride. I can't ride something that bounces the rider.

But, I have this weird attitude, that you find this wonderful animal, that is the best of everything, etc..then you can't reproduce it? What do you do when it dies? Begin the search all over?
What if SHTF? Now there is no way you could ever replace what you have, nor can you ever use it to make others for other people. A one shot irreplaceable animal, because it's sterile or gelded. That's just wrong. 
Am I wrong or weird for thinking that way?


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== jacks everywhere round here. and i know of a couple mammoths within 20 mins. i reckon its a regional thing.

ROGO that is a fine lookin jack. a big ol boy, he is. ===


Thank you.

Standard and miniature donkeys are common just about everywhere. Mammoths aren't.

And there's still folks who think a Mammoth jack is too dangerous to be around.


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## SherrieC (Aug 24, 2002)

I miss my mules. I know of two mammoth jacks within 20 mins of my place, the one is so tame, he even Loves dogs. If the man ever needed to sell him, Or if I ever wanted to breed to him I wouldn't be afraid of bringing that jack here.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

You should look into Fjords and Haflingers... even know of a 15.1 hand Icelandic gelding that is for sale in upper state NY. 
The old lines are Tanks and can do it all, and are very hardy, no big maintaince costs or anything like that.
Mine are all very easy keepers and don't need shoes.
I do have a rescue mare that I do put boots on though, if I go out on rough stone roads.

Oh.. in fact. I have a friend thinking of selling her 15.2 purebred Haflinger Mare.. this mare is huge, big boned massive Tank!! She sorts cattle with her, rides the trails.. mare could do it all, no problem. Very level headed and very smooth so I have been told.

The Fjord mare I had was a solid 13.3 hands and not fat at all at 1100lbs! Short yes, but not small by any means.

As for breeding. Just because you breed doesn't mean the off spring will turn out as nice at the parent.
Seen this happen many times, including to me.

My mini Mare Maggie, does it all except being ridden. Skids logs, pulls sleds, cart ..packs you name it. 
So I bred her with a nice stallion. What came out of her... just didn't want to believe it. 
Her daughter was a beautiful animal but nothing like Maggie in temperament. 
I won't breed Maggie again, because of that foal, and I don't want to take a chance of loosing her during a foaling.
Would I ever be able to replace her, no. But some time down the road when the right horse shows up, it is possible.

Look at the links I posted, might be surprised to find someone in your area with a gaited Mule for sale.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== It's not a case if I think I can handle a breeding animal. I'm just trying to figure out what I want. there is no one up here I can find who does the mule or donkey thing, so I am on my own.
I want an animal I can ride whenever, where ever. I need an animal I can use. I don't ride with others for pleasure, or go places to trail ride. Boring.
We have cattle, it would be trained to cut, drag and haul, probably phull in harness..an all purpose animal. ===


You better do more research! You're talking about a mule or horse. The Mammoth jack isn't like a horse. Doesn't think like a horse. Yep, they can be hitched up to a cart/wagon and take you for rides, but you just might make some record book if you want to cut/drag/haul cattle with them! I went to a team penning one night with my Mammoth jack even though I knew what the outcome would be. We were the entertainment of the evening and gave folks a good laugh! He was next to useless when I attempted to help a neighbor move cattle, but the neighbor knew him and let me try him.

Arizona is a free range state and you never know when you'll run into cattle. 
I've even tried the Mammoth on some of those cattle. Joke!


=== But I know I do not want a horse, or something that has high maintenance feed needs, or high maintenance shoeing needs. ===


My horses, mules and donkeys have all been on the same menu for over 30 years. Bermuda hay or all Bermuda pellets with nothing else in them and 100% food grade diatomaceous earth (DE). I've always free choice fed. I've never fed grain or confined my stock. From foals up to oldsters. 

I've never yet had a horse, mule or donkey that needed shoes. I live on rocky land and ride on rocky land. It keeps the hooves trimmed and smooth. No cuts, cracks, or abscesses.


=== I want something BIG. I love long ears on any animal. I need something tough, with a smooth ride. I can't ride something that bounces the rider. But, I have this weird attitude, that you find this wonderful animal, that is the best of everything, etc..then you can't reproduce it? What do you do when it dies? Begin the search all over?
What if SHTF? Now there is no way you could ever replace what you have, nor can you ever use it to make others for other people. A one shot irreplaceable animal, because it's sterile or gelded. That's just wrong. 
Am I wrong or weird for thinking that way? ===


My Mammoth was 14.3 hands. Some call that size small! I'm short, so that size is big to me!

Your thinking is different! If you have a perfect horse, smooth riding, works cattle, does everything you want, but gets sick/dies, what do you do? You do what millions have always done, replace the critter.

I wish you well in your search. Let us know the outcome.

Chances are pretty good that you will out-live any mount you get. Although in my case that may not be true -- I'm 71 and recently got a new-to-me mule!!


My Mammoth jack:










We have an 1800's tourist trap town here and they asked me to ride in their parade both days (Saturday and Sunday). They requested my dance hall outfit!

In case you're wondering about the Mammoth's legs, he's wearing fishnet hose just like me!


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

LOL...a jack in drag...

with you up there, ROGO, he looks much bigger than 14 hands.

on fella in particular i know, ive been to his place to see his mammoth jack. he was still young. cant remember now his age. but he was already 14 hands. very tame. very friendly. but the fella works with him daily, many times a day. hes older and retired...

he preferres riding mules over horses. and hes going to use his mammmoth over some mares. he wont let his mammoth jack even get near his mules. he keeps him penned near the mares. he told me that a jack wont breed horses if he ever gets a taste of breeding a mule mare......i didnt believe him, but after reeding some of these posts. the ol fella was telling me the straight of it.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

why is it that a jack may or may not breed his own kind, and will refuse mares afterwards?

btw, I was looking at some of the links posted here, and I WOULD NOT recommend the missouri mule company. his website may be pretty, but thats as far as it goes. I have been to his place. thats the guy with the 10,000$ animals that he whips to get to work. When we got there, he had mules in pens and tied all over. his barn pens were ramshackle at best. his mammoth jack and several others were tied in direct sun for the 2 1/2 hours we were there, and were there when we arrived (the owner was not). No shade, no water, and it was 95 degrees and no wind.

I will say he was nice, and allowed us to ride one on short notice, as I called 30 minutes before we arrived. the mule he put us on, he encouraged my daughter to whip him continuously to get him to go. his haunches were raw when it was over, and he asked us over and over again, do you know you are riding a 10,000$ animal? how does it feel to ride a 10,000$ animal?


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## TennesseeMama23 (May 10, 2006)

http://nashville.craigslist.org/grd/2162152536.html

Here's a current ad for one here in tn..


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

too bad I'm in wisconsin!
I wonder what he means by 'not for a beginner', if the animal has no bad habits, stands and loads well, and is well behaved on the road.


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> too bad I'm in wisconsin!
> I wonder what he means by 'not for a beginner', if the animal has no bad habits, stands and loads well, and is well behaved on the road.


I wondered the same thing. I figure he has a lot of get up and go or is strong willed if not for a beginner but the statement does send up a red flag because I gues I would be considered a beginner after so many years without a horse and never a mule.


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## malinda (May 12, 2002)

Rogo, that pic is a riot!

lonelyfarmgirl, You mention that your back can't take the trotting of a QH - have you tried posting the trot? Or even learning 2-point (though it's hard and will take work)? Posting will reduce the amount of concussion by a very large amount. Also, QHs/Paints/Appaloosas are probably the most concussive breeds out there because they tend to have large bodies with straight shoulders and a short stride. Have you tried a bunch of other types of horses? Draft crosses generally are quite smooth, but you will find smooth Morgans, Arabs, etc., and crossbreds of all breeds.

The reason I ask is because years ago, a friend of mine was shopping for a gaited horse. I went along with her several times and we rode Kentucky Mountain horses, Rocky Mountain horses, Peruvian Pasos, Paso Finos, Icelandics, Tennessee Walking Horses, Missouri Fox Trotters, you name it. She was looking for a horse she really liked and we tried them all. I found the gaited horse breeds to do weird things to my back (and I was only a teenager at the time). Their movement was more of a back-twisting movement that a rider couldn't get away from. A rider can reduce the concussion of a trotting horse by posting and there is no twisting movement.

Just a thought, maybe you could try some riding lessons from different trainers and try several different types of horses, develop your seat a little, and then go shopping for whatever you decide you like. You'll have a bit more experience and will know what you like and don't like. Down in your part of WI, there are many, many horse stables and farms that you could try - unlike up here near Wausau - we don't have near as many knowledgeable horse stables or trainers.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Dyfra is a good horse.... but she is only for an advanced rider.
Normally these horses or mules need good, fair, knowledgeable leadership and can be quite smart. Basically, they are not push button and you really need to know what you are doing.
Hard to explain in writing.

For comfort...
Depends on the breed of Gaited horse. TWH... personally hurts my back too, at least the ones I have ridden. Icelandic's have a front to back walk/tolt. Dyfra always makes my back feel better.
My Fjord mare.. was super smooth for a trotting breed of horse but her side to side movement killed my back even before I was hurt. Even posting... though I prefer a military post.

My Peruvian Paso was really nice gaited too.. didn't hurt my back at all.

So I think it just depends on the animal even with in breeds.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I've owned two gaited horses in my life, both were single-footing horses, one was trained to singlefoot by my grandfather (who trained all of his saddle horses to singlefoot) although they would all W/T/C as well. The other was a Paso/QH cross gelding that had several speeds of singlefoot and a gallop. Wouldn't really walk and never knew him to trot. I found the singlefoot a very easy gait to sit, almost no concussion and no "twist".

Since coming to KY I've ridden a couple of TWH and find that gait very odd and not comfortable, but I may not be sitting/riding it right.

I've ridden two mules, both of whom I found very easy gaited as well, didn't really 'gait' like the singlefooting horses, but both had a long, kind of "sliding" walk that was very easy to sit.

If I were looking for something to do a lot of miles on now, I'd look for a horse that would singlefoot or a mule ...


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== Originally Posted by mamahen 
http://www.diamonddmules.com/id1.html Found this breeder in OH. Take a look at the legs on their jack!! I've never seen such long legs on a donkey! ===


I've never seen such skinny legs on a donkey! Looks like they could break easy! Not for me. I like more bone.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== he wont let his mammoth jack even get near his mules. he keeps him penned near the mares. he told me that a jack wont breed horses if he ever gets a taste of breeding a mule mare. ===


Almost but not quite! When making mules (horse mom, donkey sire), if the jack breeds donkeys (jennys) first, they generally won't breed mares. If they breed a few mares first, they'll then breed both jennys and mares.

When making hinnys (donkey mom, horse sire), if the horse breeds mares first, they generally won't breed jennys. If they breed a few jennys first, they'll then breed both jennys and mares.

Hinnys are difficult to make and we don't see many of them. The jenny is quite acidic and kills off the horse's sperm. Folks try all sorts of things, such as giving the jenny a baking soda douche before breeding, but it rarely works.

I'm not aware of any jacks mating with mules, but who knows what goes on when the lights go off!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> too bad I'm in wisconsin!
> I wonder what he means by 'not for a beginner', if the animal has no bad habits, stands and loads well, and is well behaved on the road.


He may be a little "goey" or try to get away with stuff that a more experienced rider would get after him about. Many times a horse labeled not for a beginner just needs a rider doesn't just sit there enjoying the view.

Case in point, my youngest's first hunter was a been there, done that older gentleman, however he knew all the "tricks" that came with those years. He'd be cantering along and suddenly drop a shoulder- if you were just sitting up there it was enough to unseat an inexperienced rider. Or every so often the old barrel gelding would throw in a crow hop in the warm up. Being able to "read" what a horse is going to do before he does it is just something that comes with experience.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

Rogo said:


> === he wont let his mammoth jack even get near his mules. he keeps him penned near the mares. he told me that a jack wont breed horses if he ever gets a taste of breeding a mule mare. ===
> 
> 
> Almost but not quite! When making mules (horse mom, donkey sire), if the jack breeds donkeys (jennys) first, they generally won't breed mares. If they breed a few mares first, they'll then breed both jennys and mares.
> ...


you jarred my memmory ROGO. he did also tell us a lady with a jenny approached him about breeding her to his mammoth jack. but he refused. he wasnt going to let the jack breed any jennies till after he bred a few horse mare. but the jack wasnt old enuff to breed at that time anyway. but the fella definitly kept the jack away from his mule mares. and was quite adimant about it.... one was in heat that day we were visiting.


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## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

As already mentioned, mammoth jacks aren't rare in KY and I've ridden several mules and jacks. While a mule is an excellent all purpose animal (you can absolutely work your cattle, trail ride, show, etc. on your mule) a jack is an entirely different critter and I have yet to meet one that I would consider anywhere near 'all purpose'. I've trail ridden mules, shown mules - both english and western-, team penned on a mule, and I've hunted off of mules. There's not much they won't do if they're trained by a competent professional. But, that does take years. If you plan to breed and train your own, you're going to have to invest a lot if time and learning-the-hard-way before you get your riding mule.

Gaited mules, in my opinion, are awesome. Just fabulous to ride all day. Non-gaited mules aren't nearly as bouncy as a donkey but even as smooth as they are, you will still notice a difference when riding gaited. I don't know why so many people on this board seem to have trouble with TWHs except that maybe they've never been taught to ride a TWH. They are a bit different to ride but I've never been sore or unhappy at all with an all day ride on a walker. I love 'em. They're like anything else, there are good and bad examples of every breed. They do cross really well with mammoth jacks to produce dependable, comfortable, trainable saddle mules. 

For my money, I would shop for a finished riding mule. Mules are not as easily trained as horses. They're super smart and very proud. A good mule trainer will save you a whole lot of heartache and frustration. Gaited will cost more but if I were looking for a riding mule right now, I'd pay the extra.


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## Mulish (Mar 24, 2005)

If your looking to breed you own mule, there is, in MI, or was, I'm not sure, a gaited jack. I breed my MFT mare to him back in 04. He is one of Meridith Hodges jack. As last I heard he was owned by a Amish fellow named Donald Schmucker.

I got a nice gaited mule filly out of the breeding. A true blue roan gaited mule.
I was foutunate to have an old mule mare to keep with her, as her dam died 16 hours ofter foaling. If you are interested in the address of the jacks owner, PM me.


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## Witterbound (Sep 4, 2007)

You need to buy a mule and see how you like it, before you invest the time and money breeding them. Mules are different. I am absolutely positive that my gaited mule is smarter than I am. IMO many people are breeding horses (and mules) that have no business doing so, and it helps lead to the many horses and mules we see in sale barns. Buy an adult you like, and ride 'em.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I guess I agree with you witterbound. I have been looking at sites selling riding mules, but the problem is, they are all far, and everyone seems sold out, and everyone says call anyway I can find what you need. If they can all find what you need, why aren't those critters posted?


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

cause they are horse traders....peddlers....they just become a middleman.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

VA craigs list.

i know of these mule. im surprised they are up for sale.

http://roanoke.craigslist.org/grd/2165798985.html


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

see, a shame.. I am in wisconsin.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

People do travel to find the best animals.

The person who bought Frey, flew in from Colorado twice to see her. I know people that have flown in, stayed a couple of days.. taking horses for test drives on different farms, until they found what they were looking for.

Or... one can be open minded and look at what is in their area and or wait for just the right animal to come along. Some times it takes awhile but well worth it in the end.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

From hearing so many awful things about Craig's List, I didn't call any ads. But I decided to reverse things after looking for so long. 

I put in an ad of what I was looking for and one of those who responded had what I wanted. Perhaps you could try doing the same.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

thats what I am going to do. and I did. I have been told there are more mules in the southwest corner of the state. I am going to post there also.


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