# Question for off-grid homeowners



## Barnhouse (Feb 24, 2012)

Do any of you have any trouble getting your homes insured?

I'm in a very small off grid home right now that I may be purchasing, however the owner's insurance company has informed them that thay are cancelling the insurance because of the pellet stove.

We had another insurance agent come out and he said his company would not insure the place because "it's not considered a standard home".

Further, he says he doesn't think it could even be insured as a farm.
Possibly (but not likely) he could insure it as a camp, but that does not permit full-time occupancy. 

What's up with this? And can you point in the direction of someone who may help?

Thanks.


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## Barnhouse (Feb 24, 2012)

I guess I should add a little more info-

This house is a one bedroom with an eat in kitchen area, bathroom, sitting room, and deck out front. It is powered by windmill and solar power. I have a pellet stove for heat, and also a built in propane heater for back up (which I have never needed the pellet stove does a fine job alone)

The previous owner has lived her for 10 years with no problems.
I've been here for just under a year, and love it.
Now this. Suggestions?


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

If you can add a water source and fire hoses, or other fire suppression capabilities it will help a lot. A fire truck could never get closer than a few hundred yards to my cabin. I never checked on they one.


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## Barnhouse (Feb 24, 2012)

Thanks for your response.

I do have running water, great water pressure, the firehouse is exactly ONE MILE from my house and I have a horseshoe driveway that can accommodate a tractor trailer. 
I know that because hubby parked it here.

Personally, I don't think they can't insure it, think they don't want to.
I just don't know where to go to get help.


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## nadja (May 22, 2011)

I have lived in an off grid house for over 16 years now, along with several friends the same way. None of us have ever had any problems with this. The main thing that is it must pass builder's codes and inspection. Wiring is wiring as long as it meets code. Shop around for a different ins co. My solar and wind is not on my roof, but rather an outbuilding. The wiring from my solar and inverter is buried underground in conduit per code and goes into my service entrance box. That is it.


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## Barnhouse (Feb 24, 2012)

Thank you.

That's what I don't get. We haven't had any notice of any code violations.
The agent that was here told us "people have been cancelled for something as minor as cracked paint on the siding."

What is going on?

The issue seems to be that I have a pellet stove-
not that there is any code violation regarding it, just that I have one.
This makes no sense to me at all.

Further aggravation- the agent told us about some ways he could "sneak" us in by not checking the deed or having me print up a phony sales receipt to "prove" this is a working farm and he would look the other way.

I have never seen such horse manure from supposed professionals in all my life.


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## Barnhouse (Feb 24, 2012)

Oh, and just to add insult to injury, the way we got this insurance agent's name was thru the guy at the tractor dealership in town. He also sells pellet stoves.

The owner went to him and asked, you must know somebody who insures people with pellet stoves. 

The dealer said, I'll go you one better. I just sold a pellet stove to a man who is an insurance agent. 

That's how we ended up with this clown.

So he OWNS a pellet stove, but won't insure others who do???


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

I'd keep hunting insurance companies. Try companies that specialize in farm/rural property.

I'd also consider not carrying any at all, and just be self insured, unless it's a mortgage requirement.


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## Barnhouse (Feb 24, 2012)

TnAndy said:


> I'd keep hunting insurance companies. Try companies that specialize in farm/rural property.
> 
> I'd also consider not carrying any at all, and just be self insured, unless it's a mortgage requirement.


No, no mortgage requirement in this case.
Personally, I don't care if it's insured or not, but the deed's not in my name yet.
That too may be an option, which honestly would be great for me.


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

Check out these guys..

NYPIUA Home page

I'm in a similar situation. My place is considered an "Out Building", not a residence. I work through an organization called Ohio Fair Plan and actually it's not too bad. (no inspection!) 50k for $425/yr. I could replace my shack for that, I figure.. 

Covers fire, storm damage, Just about anything a "normal" policy would cover with property liability, just in case someone gets hurt on your property and wants to sue..

There's no fire hydrants anywhere near. I don't have a well or septic and my wiring would make an electric inspector have a heart attack! (HeHe) Out buildings don't need those kinda things anyway..


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I suspect that most ins. Co.s are very paranoid about wood burning stuff..
Each fall,- early winter there is a rash of fires many with deaths from improper equipment, chimney fires, etc. etc..........

So yes I can see them turning you down.....

Keep looking . . some one will "take your money"


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Barnhouse said:


> ... thay are cancelling the insurance because of the pellet stove.


Nothing to do with off-grid.

It is because you burn wood.

I commonly hear of insurance companies here that cancel over woodstoves.


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## Barnhouse (Feb 24, 2012)

Jim-mi said:


> I suspect that most ins. Co.s are very paranoid about wood burning stuff..
> Each fall,- early winter there is a rash of fires many with deaths from improper equipment, chimney fires, etc. etc..........
> 
> So yes I can see them turning you down.....
> ...


I hope your right....about taking my money that is. :happy2:

Why would they turn me down for a pellet stove which is self contained, no open flame at all, properly vented on a building with a metal roof, but insure somebody with a fireplace? This has to be much safer than a fireplace or kerosene heater.

I'm not understanding the logic. I also have fire alarms and extinguishers here too.

I spoke to the owner tonite who spoke with someone at the insurance company and they keep telling her it's a high risk property, YET they won't state exactly what it is about the property that makes it a high risk.
Don't they have to explain that?


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## Barnhouse (Feb 24, 2012)

12vman said:


> Check out these guys..
> 
> NYPIUA Home page
> 
> ...


That would be good enough for me. Thank you! I will investigate this.
As far as I know, everything is ok code wise. The electric was put in and is maintained by a professional electrician. I really don't know what else they want. Personally, I think they are just cutting corners wherever they can, otherwise they wouldn't be so vague about it.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Trying to analyze the logic of an insurance Co. is like beating your head against a cement block wall . . . . . . 
It feels so good when--you stop.

You can be the nicest guy in the country, . . .but when they look at the charts about house fires caused by wood burning equipment . . . .YOU loose.

Years ago the Franklin wood burner I had was down right dangerous compared to a well installed pellet stove like yours

Never the less, my stove and yours are wood burning appliances . . . .thats a NO NO for the ins Co...............


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

I have been told that in our area there is only one insurance company that insures woodstoves.

We do not have a policy with them though.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Here they have to be inspected when installed and an approved model to get fire insurance. I built my cabin with minimal inspections, no electrical (because there was none) and an unapproved model of wood stove because it is an antique wood cookstove. I don't do insurance anyway except what is state mandated for me to carry for the PRIVILEGE of driving ($16.00 a month)....James


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## Barnhouse (Feb 24, 2012)

ET1 SS said:


> I have been told that in our area there is only one insurance company that insures woodstoves.
> 
> We do not have a policy with them though.


Geez Louise, everybody here has them. I find it hard to believe that all these homes are uninsured, but today, why should I be surprised?


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## Barnhouse (Feb 24, 2012)

The owner did contact (by phone and email,) the website 12vman suggested above, but so far she has not gotten a call back. I guess we just wait and see what happens.

Meanwhile, I'll go see what other FUN things I can get into....like .....root canal or 
..... visit the DMV......... go see what's happening down at the IRS....watch the reruns of the political conventions....
:walk: (sigh)


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I went for too many years without home ins.
But when I was contemplating legally back feeding the grid I had to shop far and wide to find a company where I could get the needed one million dollar liability coverage. (utility requirement back then).

Glad that I maintained the policy (minus the million liability)
Last year a straight line wind sheer blew off my roof........$$$$$$$$$$
Both wind turbines survived that wind sheer.......

So it is darned if you do and darned if you don't.............have ins...........


Barnhouse; add to your list . .A visit by the SWATT team because you are selling raw milk . . or your kids are "selling" lemonade...........


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## Barnhouse (Feb 24, 2012)

Heard back from the insurance company-
They will cover everything except liability.
Since this is a remote location, that would be the least of my concerns here, so this might be the best we can do for now.
Meanwhile the owner is still working with the old insurance company to see if she can stop the cancellation......i doubt it.

As long as we can get the buildings insured I'll be satisfied for now and I'll just keep looking from time to time.


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

Barnhouse said:


> I guess I should add a little more info-
> 
> This house is a one bedroom with an eat in kitchen area, bathroom, sitting room, and deck out front. It is powered by windmill and solar power. I have a pellet stove for heat, and also a built in propane heater for back up (which I have never needed the pellet stove does a fine job alone)
> 
> ...


 i would try a new company/agent and list the propane heater.:yuck::yuck: the wood is backup:yuck:


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## NorthCountryWd (Oct 17, 2008)

Alaska said:


> i would try a new company/agent and list the propane heater.:yuck::yuck: the wood is backup:yuck:


You could try that or have a fire marshal inspect the stove? As long as everything's proper can't see why they wouldn't insure you. I installed a stove myself in a house we own that my MIL lives in, had the building inspector sign off on it, told the insurance company and only paid an extra $70 per year in insurance. 

Consider the size and cost of your property and determine if it's more feasible to just keep the money in an emergency account.


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