# Goat tying???? Have to vent!



## waygr00vy (Aug 7, 2005)

I had someone e-mail me about my goats asking me what the "cheapest one I had" was. This already set off alarms. I have one nigerian X doe I am selling for $60, which is the one she was inquiring about. I really didn't think anything was going to come of this anyway, but she called me today wanting to come out and look. We got to talking, and she wants a goat her daughter can use for goat tying. I very politely told her I was not comfortable selling my goats for that purpose and she went off on me....asking me what my problem was with goat tying...she said the goats like it and come back for more....ha, right!! I can just imagine the poor goat in question being chased down by this horse and then thrown to the ground and tied....then getting right back in the chute, or whatever it may be, willingly for the second round. She got pretty nasty and then hung up. I don't usually sell any of my goats that for that little, but she was supposed to be a nigerian but it is now obvious she is crossed with ???? and I have yet to see her go into heat in the year I have had her so she is basically good for...well, hopefully not only goat tying!!! I think it would be more humane for her to be dinner (although she isn't very meaty). Am I way off here???


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## greenacres (Feb 21, 2003)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being picky about where you want your goats to go. I know I would be scared to death if I was tied to a stake and had a horse coming at me! I think it is great you stood your ground. Of course, this person may have had a bad day and you got the brunt of it too.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Yeah, I had that happen to me at a sale barn, after I'd already signed them away. I don't think I've gone to a sale barn since. I would rather butcher a doe than to have that happen to her.


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## LFmenagerie (Mar 29, 2007)

My niece wanted one for tying. 
As she asked this her brother laughed and told a story of how she killed the last one she tied. She barely blinked as she said,' Well, I didn't think I threw it on the ground that hard'. 
 :flame: 
She didn't get a goat. I walked away before a flood of nasty words left my lips.

Pam


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## animalfarmer (Feb 14, 2006)

Hi LFmenagerie,the question comes to mind,did your niece go get a knife and cut the throat of the goat she threw and killed so that it could be butchered for food? Did she dress it out after she killed it? I am not familiar with goat tying as a sport,but I don't like waste of any kind.If you engage in an endeavour that can result in the death of an animal,then you should be required to dress it out and use it.Just my two cents.


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## backwoods (Sep 12, 2004)

They are your goats.Sell or don't sell to whom ever you please and you don't owe anyone an explanation.Some people don't hold goats in high regard as members here do.There are some who just don't deserve to have goats.


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

When I went to buy goats a few months ago the lady asked me why I was going to put them in my minivan instead of hog tying them first, she said "what if they make a big mess in your van?" :shrug: I can't imagine that tying one up would be a very good way to show them that I wasn't going to hurt them, especially since they were real skittish as it was. They rode home sitting in the back seat like little people lol.


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## waygr00vy (Aug 7, 2005)

Thanks everyone, glad to hear I wasn't being totally unreasonable. I am definitely glad I didn't sell her to them. I started researching it a bit and there is NO WAY a goat enjoys that, as she kept stating. I am really surprised more of them don't snap their necks when the horse comes barreling towards them. She definitely took up the defensive and got nasty pretty quickly. I am sure this wasn't the first time she has been turned down...


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

She probably has some doubts about it herself and you just forced her to think about them. Good for you!


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## bob clark (Nov 3, 2005)

fishhead said:


> She probably has some doubts about it herself and you just forced her to think about them. Good for you!


this is my take aswell about her being a "you know what " about it


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## goatsareus (Jun 23, 2007)

You have every right, even a responsibility, to do just what you did. And you do not need to offer anyone an explanation.

When I sell a goat/s, I thoroughly explore with the potential buyer what their intentions are regarding the animal. If I do not approve of what they have in store, then I ask an unreasonable price, say $300. for a grade goat. I never have to tell them my reservations, they just back off, muttering that they would never pay that for a goat.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

I wouldn't sell a goat for that either. Like someone else said, I would butcher her out before I would do that. Much better she went quickly then to be terrified over and over again before somebody threw her down hard enough to kill her.


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

> Much better she went quickly then to be terrified over and over again before somebody threw her down hard enough to kill her.


Amen!


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

How long do you guys think it will be before someone comes on here saying that goat tying is fine and they have a god-given right to do it?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It's a rodeo event for young people, very similar to calf roping, but for girls instead of guys. I don't care for it, but I don't care for bull riding and bronc riding, either.

You can see in the cover of this video that's for sale on the 'Net, that the girl and her horse chase the goat down the arena, rope it, the girl bails off the horse and runs down the roped goat while the horse backs up, pulling the rope tight. Then, the girl flings the goat down and does something to it. Used to be tie a ribbon on the tail, but now they may tie the legs together like the guys. I dunno.

I wouldn't want it to happen to any goat that I know. :nono: 

http://www.goattyer.com/video.htm


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## kerrinatoz (Nov 27, 2006)

"You can see in the cover of this video that's for sale on the 'Net, that the girl and her horse chase the goat down the arena, rope it, the girl bails off the horse and runs down the roped goat while the horse backs up, pulling the rope tight. Then, the girl flings the goat down and does something to it."

And on the cover for the video the doe they are using looks really young. Now i can't imagine that people have goats herds out there that they actually use horses to run them down with. I cannot believe this is an actual sport but then again so is dog fighting. (illegal and unethical though it is>

Kerrin


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## Karenrbw (Aug 17, 2004)

"You can see in the cover of this video that's for sale on the 'Net, that the girl and her horse chase the goat down the arena, rope it, the girl bails off the horse and runs down the roped goat while the horse backs up, pulling the rope tight. Then, the girl flings the goat down and does something to it. Used to be tie a ribbon on the tail, but now they may tie the legs together like the guys. I dunno."


Don't confuse goat tying with calf roping. In the goat tying event, the goat is staked at one end of the arena on a short rope (5-6 feet). The competitor rides the horse up to the goat, bails off, flanks and throws the goat, and ties three legs together. The goats are not roped or attached to the horse in any way like the calves are in calf roping. Not that it is any better, but just a clarification.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

OK, I see it on the cover now. Oops. I thought the rope was between the horse and goat.

Well, a little better, but I'm still not a fan.

I don't think the sport developed from actual need....like the history of calf roping. I think it's a girl sport substitution for calf roping. Like half court basketball used to be. :grump:


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## TwoAcresAndAGoat (Jul 19, 2003)

Videos of goat tying

with a horse
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqtNRh1-4dk&mode=related&search=[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIWuWKEuvzs&mode=related&search=[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5J-m6jYaJo&mode=related&search=[/ame]

without a horse
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3lfuTuodyE&mode=related&search=[/ame]

AND THEY DO HAVE GOAT ROPING
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA080705.1B.goat_rodeo.348102b.html

It doesn't look like the goat is having a very good time to me.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

Well if I sell any Stock I just soon never hear what happens to it.I sold most my Goats to one Guy.Well I seen him about a year later and he was telling me how he had lost some because he wasn't taking proper care of them.

Like I say I just soon not to have run into him.

big rockpile


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## moopups (May 12, 2002)

Maybe the sport of girl tying should be explored? This is a prime example of why such 'sports' have no appeal to me.


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## KimM (Jun 17, 2005)

waygr00vy, good for you! I've refused to sell people animals when I'm not comfortable with the situation they'll be put into. More than one person's left here all PO'd and I feel good about my desicion, I could care less that they're mad. I believe it gives them something to think about.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

I think there should be people tying. I mean, if the goats are having so much 'fun' being chased down and thrown down and tied up, then the people who do it should have no objection to taking the goats place. Remember, the goats are having 'fun'.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

I can see no practical need for this kind of 'sport'. Its a shame that people can find entertainment in this kind of thing.Its like finding entertainment in dog fighting. Some people are just mental I guess.


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## Arina (May 9, 2007)

I was just thinking of getting my rodeo tickets - thanks everyone for awakening me to this horror. No money of mine will go to support a rodeo, or no money of some sketchy person will cross into my pocket. "I just better not know what happens to my animals" is not a very concious position, either - just self-preservation, i.e. if you don't know they are abused, you still can remain lily-white? NOOOOOOO.........


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## Patty0315 (Feb 1, 2004)

Calf roping started because it is usefull on a ranch setting . Sometimes the only way to catch them for shots etc is to rope them. I have had horses cows and so on we have hade to rope. It is a very usefull tool. Roping an animal is kinder then running them til exhausted.

With that said if goats or calfs got injured on a large scale in this event you can bet your panties that the one of the animal groups would have stopped it by now. I have had several goats in the past that I would have gladly let someone have for this  I would not sell most of my stock for this purpose.

Not sure how I feel about it being an event in the rodeo. If I am OK with calf roping then I should be OK with goat roping. I think it bugs me that they assume a girl cannot throw a calf If we ran a cow/calf operation I would want my children to learn on smaller animals before going onto larger calfs..

Whatever one may think they are your animals and you have the right to do with them as you wish. I probally would not have sold the little one either .


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## gracie88 (May 29, 2007)

I don't think you need to be ok with goat roping if you are ok with calf roping. The calves are bigger, stronger, and have a chance to dodge. Personally, I think those rodeo girlies should either rope calves with the boys or put on a dress and sit in the stands.  They are not children learning the ropes anymore.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

I've been to rodeos in our area and never seen or heard of this, thank goodness. I guess I can say with certainty that every goat I've ever had to take down was NOT happy about it. Latest was a buck who had knocked a large horn scur half off, and his head needed to be completely immobilized so I could take care of it. Even so, I did NOT pick him up and drop him onto his side. That seems like a really good way to cause internal injuries.

This "game" just seems entirely useless and cruel. I think it should be outlawed. And if these girls want to throw around baby animals, give them something that has a chance of hurting them in return. Or maybe pick them up and throw them a couple times, just so they can empathize. :flame:


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## waygr00vy (Aug 7, 2005)

I don't think I put in the original post, her daughter is in 4-H and they do this in her 4-H group and shows. Seems completely counterproductive to what I thought 4-H was about...but I was never in it.


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## APPway (May 27, 2005)

Goat tying is one of the most competitive events in youth rodeo. The object of this track event is ride to a tethered goat as quickly as possible, dismount, catch, throw, and tie any three of its legs together.

The goat must stay tied for six seconds after the flagger has signaled for time and the contestant has backed away from the animal.

Junior and Senior Girls may use a pigginâ string or a leather thong to tie, but Junior Boys may only use a pigginâ string, which is designed to prepare them for tie-down roping when they enter the senior ranks.

The goat is tied to a buried stake in the ground with a 10-foot rope. A person designated by the field judge holds the goat at its furthest point from the starting line until the contestant has crossed the line and time has started.

*Disqualifying infractions include: undue roughness while handling the goat*, touching the goat or the tie, or after signaling completion of the tie a contestantâs horse coming in contact with the goat or tether while the contestant still has control of the horse.

Little Wranglers compete in a significantly modified version called goat tail untying. Instead of tying three legs together, the competitor must remove a gauze strip from the goatâs tail. They then run back in the direction of the start line. Time stops when they cross the predetermined finish line with ribbon in hand.
It is not as rough on the goats as most of you are thinking.
Not even as close as rough as the Calf roping or steer wrestling events.
The goats are well taken care of and not used over and over again.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

Well I watched that first youtube video and could not watch the others. That was one of the *most pointless * things I have ever seen! 
First off where is the skill or "talent" of this? The goat is tied and stuck there. So the cruel girl jumps off her horse and slams a goat baby to the ground and ties it's legs... well if it does not get run over by the horse first. 
This is a sport how? There is no skill involved, this serves no purpose on a farm. How many times do we have to chase a tied goat and tie 3 of it legs? I personally call them or have treats and they come on by. 
My goats are dog-like in a lot of ways so maybe these _wonderful_ girls can tie up dogs next. Oh wait if they did that then the Humane Society would be all over their butts! People would be screaming animal cruelty and such. But since it is a "sport" and held at a rodeo and these are goats after all... it is ok to treat baby animals this way? 
I am so glad you did not sell your goat to that ignorant woman and her kid. I hope they did not find anyone to sell to them.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

I have to say, I've seen my goats be just that rough with eachother. They can really take slams. I've also been slammed about like that myself a few times in my life. It doesn't look painful to me. Obviously that first video (the only one I watched) was made by some biased people, and if that's the worst they can find, well...

Notice everytime the horse went over top of one, it avoided the goats. Not that it's a good idea, to let them point the horses into the area the goat is tied in, obviously. Of course, my horse stomped one of my goats on purpose, it limped a couple of strides as I yelled at the horse and then it was fine. 

The only part that makes me anxious is the way some of them really come down on the goat with their knee. I would be afraid of internal injuries from that practice. I saw a rather fat boy doing the goat tying one time and I thought he was going to squish it to death. As he was tying it, he was putting all his weight on the goat with his knee. I think they need to be more careful than that.

I also wouldn't want to sell one of my goats to someone who was going to use it for this purpose. I understand in competitions, the goats aren't used over and over. But for an individual practicing on one goat??

You should have asked the lady if she had any other kids. If so, why don't they take the part of the goat for her daughter to practice? Obviously it's quite fun!


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

I have to agree, I don't see where the skill is in this. Its like going hunting for a deer thats trapped in a dog pen. Even th ecalf roping to some extent is the same way. If you really want to show how well you can rope a calf, then ride your horse out into a huge pasture among the mommas and single out a calf a rope it.

But then I don't think any of the roping or wrestling should really be a sport. I can see doing it if you need to vet animals or something, but to just do it because you want to? It just seems kind of mean to chase the animals down in an arena just for the sake of entertainment.


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## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

I truly don't get the purpose of this "event." Goats are not cattle, certainly not a part of western/cowboy tradition and it seems to me the animal is simply being used for entertainment purposes. Whoever claimed goats "enjoy" the tying contest I'd like to know how he/she discerned that. It sounds somewhat barbaric and totally uneccessary - just so someone can claim they can tie a goat quicker than someone else? I'm not some PETA extremist, merely someone with some common sense wondering about the absurdity of this endeavor.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

One of the goats I have came from a rodeo. I got her from the person who rescued her from the rodeo (I think?). Anyway, the reason I'm posting this is to say that she is a very skittish goat. She's beautiful, and is slowly starting to trust me slightly. She stays with the rest of the girls and sees them come up to me to get pets. In the beginning she would run when she seen me. Then she got to where she'd stand back and watch the others. With time she has gained a little trust, she will now come up with the others to eat a little grain, and sometimes she will let me get close enough to touch her. She usually bolts when she feels the touching. I'm thinking about having DS hold her while I pet her. I don't know if this would calm her by teaching her that I won't hurt her, or if it would do more damage than good. It might bring the old fears to the surface (not that they aren't already close). I really hope that she will learn to trust me and come up to get a pet like the others.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Spinner, just give her time. When feeding her grain, stand by her, as near as she is just a little uncomfortable, but not so uncomfortable that she won't come over to eat. Come nearer as she gets more relaxed and eventually you might lightly pet her when she eats. The first few time you pet her, you might just lightly pet her and then smoothly back away - rewarding her for letting you pet her. I had a skittish one that is much better now. She really improved once I started milking her everyday as well.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

I agree with southerngurl, this stuff does take time. I would not catch the goat. Treats and time and gradually getting closer should do the trick. When I was taming my wild goats, and finally got close enough to touch, I didn't reach for the goat. I put the treat into a pan and held my hand near the pan, then over the pan in such a way that the goat had to contact my hand to get the treat. That was the first physical contact. Now both goats, which were completely wild and six months old when I got them, trust me just fine.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

The truly great thing about homesteading is the freedom and independence it offers. Freedom to tie goats, freedom not to tie goats, freedom to sell goats to goat tiers, freedom not to sell goats to goat tiers, freedom to buy goats and not tell the seller that they are for goat tieing................

Those saying it should be outlawed to me fall in the same group that says that you shouldn't use animals for any purpose. You are just a part of the Animal Rights movement.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

I am not saying they shouldn't be used for any purpose. I am saying they should be used for a purpose, not entertainment. Would it be okay if someone used a dog for this type of entertainment? If not, why?

Does that make me a tree hugging PETA sympathizer? Because I feel that the animals should have a little more peace in their lives, that they shouldn't be subjected to tying and such just because the human race has ran out of things to do with itself and has to resort to this kind of thing so that they can be entertained? I don't think so. In fact since I eat my bunnies and use their fur, most animal rights activists wouldn't like me very much. But at least I have more respect for their health and mental well being than to reduce myself to scaring them and tossing them about just so I can win something and others can be entertained.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

lilprairiemutt said:


> I am not saying they shouldn't be used for any purpose. I am saying they should be used for a purpose, not entertainment. Would it be okay if someone used a dog for this type of entertainment? If not, why?
> 
> Does that make me a tree hugging PETA sympathizer? Because I feel that the animals should have a little more peace in their lives, that they shouldn't be subjected to tying and such just because the human race has ran out of things to do with itself and has to resort to this kind of thing so that they can be entertained? I don't think so. In fact since I eat my bunnies and use their fur, most animal rights activists wouldn't like me very much. But at least I have more respect for their health and mental well being than to reduce myself to scaring them and tossing them about just so I can win something and others can be entertained.


Funny you feel the need. I was simply expressing my opinion on the subject. What you have to say on the subject matters not in the least to me and does not change my opinion a bit.


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## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

Just because it's not an illegal practice doesn't make it right. I just question what it says about those participating that they place their own entertainment needs over the welfare of the animal. Even if it's not being outwardly abused, it creates a certain amount of stress on the goat. If you asked people why they either participate in, or go to watch these contests, what would be the answer in most cases? I doubt it would be anything constructive.


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## bob clark (Nov 3, 2005)

tinknal said:


> Those saying it should be outlawed to me fall in the same group that says that you shouldn't use animals for any purpose. You are just a part of the Animal Rights movement.


sign me up then. animals have always been misstreated from time to time. 

i would rather be lumped with animal rights folks than to be like some here that will even defend cockfighters so as to not side with the animal rights croud

what ever happened to moderation in this country? does everything come down to black and white answers?


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

No legitimate animal welfare group has ever come out opposed to the treatment of rodeo livestock.


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## Tana Mc (May 10, 2002)

There is a saddle club in a nearby town that has open playdays. My daughter has participated in a few of them. Goat tying is one of the events. In order to compete for the all round buckle, you have to participate in several events. The committee aproached me about letting them use some of my goats...... I strongly declined that opportunity.
Several adults at the last play day were pressuring my daughter to compete in the goat tying because she has done well in other events but not enough to get points for the buckle. She replied that she couldn't because her Mama would hurt her if she did........and her Mama would probably hurt anybody that gave her a hard time about it. I wondered why the cowboys parted and gave me a wide path thru the crowd when I walked up!  
Tana Mc


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Interesting conundrum, prevent animal abuse by threatening child abuse.............


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## bob clark (Nov 3, 2005)

Tana Mc said:


> t. I wondered why the cowboys parted and gave me a wide path thru the crowd when I walked up!
> Tana Mc


you are prolly hot ,and they just wanted to get a better look at you


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## Tana Mc (May 10, 2002)

No, Honey! I can assure you those days are OVER. Now-- my daughter was the reason there was a crowd of cowboys there to begin with..... I have to sashay over there and break up that crowd on a regular basis. I get alot of head bobbin' and hat shufflin' as they skulk off. 
Tana Mc


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## kerrinatoz (Nov 27, 2006)

Rose said:


> I don't think the sport developed from actual need....like the history of calf roping. I think it's a girl sport substitution for calf roping. Like half court basketball used to be. :grump:



Ok that just makes me mad for a number of reasons. :flame: 
1. Oh come on like a girl couldn't tie a calf, (come on!)
2. They have to tie the goat to the rope, what like whoever is riding the horse can't run the goat down. (ok this seems a little weird to say because actually I think the whole idea of running a goat down for sport is heartless.)
3. GOATS DO NOT ENJOY PEOPLE ON HORSES RUNNING THEM DOWN. Guess what, horses wouldn't like it either but at least they are the same size and breed as the other horse. 

Ok, I'm done venting for now.

Kerrin


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It's the 'flanking' the calf that's difficult for 110 lb pre-teen girls.  Grabbing a calf, lifting it, whopping it into the dirt and controlling its legs during the tying process ain't easy, even for boys/men.

Much of the competition aspect is in control of the horse and the agility of the girl as she leaps from the horse during its sliding stop. Then, of course, her ability to do whatever it is she does to the goat.

Remember that competitions are traditional. Look how long the Olympics have been around. The fact that there are rodeo events for females is 'progress', of sorts.  

Remember also, that as goat owners, we know the goats have emotions. Most folks don't. :grump:


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Seems that some folks think that tieing calves is ok but goats not ok..................

Does anyone notice the absolute hypocracy in such a position? :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I didn't mean to imply that. You know, it's really hard to discuss something on the board if every poster has to go into every detail of their ethical positions and thoughts and reasoning process on every post. :help:


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## Shinsan (Jul 11, 2006)

waygr00vy, you've got the right attitude. Your post reminded me of a lady in our area selling ferrets. She advertises 'To good homes only; full refund if ferrets not happy.'


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Rose said:


> I didn't mean to imply that. You know, it's really hard to discuss something on the board if every poster has to go into every detail of their ethical positions and thoughts and reasoning process on every post. :help:


No. It's more about anthropomorphizing. Humanize a goat, and you can't do anything to it ( except maybe milk it and eat it's babys because, you know, it's ok 'cause I really like goats and they seem to like being milked and have their babys eaten, (of course the babys don't seem to like being eaten), but that's alright because if I didn't eat them someone might tie them up......



I'm so confused.............


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

tinknal said:


> Seems that some folks think that tieing calves is ok but goats not ok..................
> 
> Does anyone notice the absolute hypocracy in such a position? :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:


yes.


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

I'm late to this party but I'm quite surprised that some of yall have never heard the term "goat roper". Think of all the bumper stickers "Goat Ropers Need Love too". It's part of our culture like red-necks, cowboys, hillbillies and goat ropers. I'm just surprised that it was a surprise. But then again, look where I live.

Also, one reason I price my goats the way i do is to assure that they are bought by responsible people. I don't sell cheap goats because I don't want to sell them to people who want cheap goats. I put lots of $$$ into them and I will eat these high dollar animals before i sell them cheap and let them end up abused. So I will keep a goat a long time at a high price and rather eat it than sell it cheap to a goat roper....that is what i do.....again, look where I live.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I was wondering about that phrase, too. When I was in high school in Austin, we played football against a school that was on the north part of town where goats were more common. One of our 'cheers' during the games was "Get A Goat Roper! Get A Goat Roper!"


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## MOgal (Jul 27, 2002)

We used to live near the University of MO with its vet school and rodeo club. More times than I care to count, I had these "sweet young things" who had gotten my name from the vet school call me seeking a goat for tying. It was all I could do to decline and get off the phone without telling these little darlings what I thought of their "sport." One even had the audacity to tell me her last goat thought it was fun. When I asked why she was replacing it, she said it had died of a ruptured spleen. Oh, yeah, just lots of fun. 

The other thing I got from my using the vet school was calls from mideastern men. I got so tired of having calls for Missus (my real first name) and I think I got so ticked off at one that I told him that Missus had died, then hung up. Not polite, I guess, but enough was enough. Another time, two men came to my house while a third waited in the driver's seat of their car and wanted to buy my herd buck for $25. We'd paid many times that for him. They could afford to come to school from their foreign countries but not pay a decent price for a goat. They kept complaining "we have to pay imam" and I kept telling them that anybody who bought a goat from me had to pay someone to butcher it. Finally they asked to speak to my husband and gave me a look as if to say they would enjoy seeing him whip me. He just told them that it was my goat and if I didn't want to sell it, I didn't have to. They graciously (sarcasm) offered to return a wether to the barn for me but I told them to leave, don't come back and that I'd put him back in the barn myself. I knew a woman who had allowed a group of these men to "return" a goat to her barn. What they did was take the goat to their car, throw down a few bills and the driver gunned the car out of her yard. I did sell goats for butcher to foreign students but they were the ones who were polite to me, agreed to a reasonable price and to my delivering the goat to a custom butcher who worked with these people. It was a situation of a few bad apples ruining my attitude to the many but it didn't take long to figure out who was a bad apple and who were nice people.

As far as calf roping goes, I attended a small local rodeo years ago and on the way out we had to pass the calf pens. Several had severe rope burns across their heads and faces to the point that some were blinded by the burns. I don't watch any rodeo sport. There is no need for it. Any ranch these days can easily and safely move portable working chutes to a site where the cattle are gathered.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

greenacres said:


> There is absolutely nothing wrong with being picky about where you want your goats to go. I know I would be scared to death if I was tied to a stake and had a horse coming at me! I think it is great you stood your ground. Of course, this person may have had a bad day and you got the brunt of it too.


Having a bad day is not a reasonable excuse for going off on a virtual stranger! I know alot of people practice roping by goat tying, but it does seem at the very least unfair to the goat and at most cruel. Good for you standing your ground


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## MayLOC (Sep 20, 2006)

* Posted by: MOgal: Any ranch these days can easily and safely move portable working chutes to a site where the cattle are gathered.[/QUOTE]*-------------------------------------------------------
Ok, I had no need to comment on anything said on this thread, until I saw this comment. Sorry but I have never seen anything so untrue. There are many, many ranches still out there that are very large scale and make this idea riduculous and very impractical. On these ranches, roping is not a skill of fun or sport, it is a skill of necescity in order to care for livestock. We ranch 36,000 acres in S. CO and a good deal of it is rough country that you can only get to horseback. In order to doctor livestock we often have to rope and treat calves, cows, bulls and yearlings and will continue to use this very valuable skill as long as we ranch. A good roper puts much less stress on an animal by quickly and expertly roping and treating than they would to have to gather them and run them into a portable chute set up who knows how far away  We also would not be able to look after all of our cattle and be able to check on them nearly as often if we had to haul around portable chutes (and panels of course) to every pasture we checked! Maybe give it a little thought.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Actually Mayloc, I have worked on such a ranch (sheep ranch). It was a huge place with thousands of animals. They *did* use portable corral panels to pen and move the sheep when we did the tail docking, castrating, marking, etc etc. The animals were herded to the site by horseback (and they were fairly calm when they got there so I assume they weren't upset about it) and then we herded them into the corral (on foot with border collies) and worked them. 

Besides, we're goat breeders here, not cattlemen. As Tink commented, we do get attached to our animals, because they have *personality*. I've never seen any goat breeder rope a goat or slam it to the ground, much less run it down with a horse and do so. It's absurd and unnecessary and hard on the goat. Can you imagine what would happen if we did that to a pregnant doe? She'd probably miscarry, not very productive or useful.


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## naturewoman (Nov 12, 2002)

I have a goat that is so skittish that it doesn't take much to make her bolt in panic. A loud unexpected noise...a quick movement. When we go for walks, if she gets nervous she walks right in front of me, or right next to me, and actually leans against my legs for security. If she were used for something like tying, it would only take a couple of throws to make her a complete basket case who would no longer be tame and trusting and loving. I can't imagine ever doing this to a goat. I think they are more intelligent than cattle, so are more sensitive to handling. There is absolutely no way a goat would consider this fun...it's not like they are head butting...that is fun, not being thrown to the ground. My horse accidentally stepped on one of my goats and broke it's leg. If horses sometimes run across the goats, no matter how careful they are, I can only assume that sometimes they get hurt.

I also don't care for rodeos. The only part of a rodeo where the animal seems to be enjoying itself is barrel racing or other horse races or agility courses.


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## MayLOC (Sep 20, 2006)

chamoisee said:


> Actually Mayloc, I have worked on such a ranch (sheep ranch). It was a huge place with thousands of animals. They *did* use portable corral panels to pen and move the sheep when we did the tail docking, castrating, marking, etc etc. The animals were herded to the site by horseback (and they were fairly calm when they got there so I assume they weren't upset about it) and then we herded them into the corral (on foot with border collies) and worked them.
> 
> Besides, we're goat breeders here, not cattlemen. As Tink commented, we do get attached to our animals, because they have *personality*. I've never seen any goat breeder rope a goat or slam it to the ground, much less run it down with a horse and do so. It's absurd and unnecessary and hard on the goat. Can you imagine what would happen if we did that to a pregnant doe? She'd probably miscarry, not very productive or useful.


===================================
Sorry Chamoisee, but I was replying strictly to the last comment SOgal made, and it was referencing cattle ranches, not sheep or goat or...

I am very aware that most here maybe "goat breeders, not cattlemen", so that is why I felt compelled to possibly enlighten and hopefully educate a few about the usefullness of the skill of roping. 

I have goats also and no, we do not rope them. But again, I was referencing the comment made about cattle ranching/roping, so your entire explanation/comment about goats/sheep wasn't necessary. 

I stand by the statement I made and for those who wish to argue I would invite you to visit a large ranch like ours, a lot of it rough country, to see the usefullness and benefits of roping before making a judgement against it.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I've worked on ranches and have roped hundreds of animals. During a severe outbreak of e. coli. in a wet spring I roped dozens of calves a day to treat them. Every day. It would have taken me all week to get a days work done if I were to erect corrals to doctor a single calf. On a registered Hereford outfit I worked on we tagged, tatooed, and weighed every single calf, spread out over 40,000 acres. Again, roping was the only way to do it. I have also roped and trocarized bloats in remote locations where the animal would have certainly died if I had not been able to rope them.

Ever had a bull that refused to be moved and needed to be treated to save his life? I have. Anyone stupid enough to say that an animal never needs to be roped is displaying an abysmal level of ignorance.


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## MOgal (Jul 27, 2002)

"Any" is too broad a brush to use in this case. My apologies. I stand corrected. And I've owned cattle as well as goats and horses. They can be just as tame and gentle as the situation allows but I'm sure that doesn't apply to range cattle who seldom see humans. As I said, I stand corrected.


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## MayLOC (Sep 20, 2006)

MOgal said:


> "Any" is too broad a brush to use in this case. My apologies. I stand corrected. And I've owned cattle as well as goats and horses. They can be just as tame and gentle as the situation allows but I'm sure that doesn't apply to range cattle who seldom see humans. As I said, I stand corrected.


=====================
Thanks for the response MOgal. Not sure what "any" you are referencing, but that's ok.

I am proud to say that many, many ranchers own fairly calm cattle for being range cattle. Our cows see somebody horseback checking on them so often that they seldom stop grazing when a single rider rides through them to check them. And we run about 750 cattle. It is to the rancher's benefit to check his cattle and keep them in good health. thanks for your open mind.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

Like I said, roping animals to vet them or provide other nessicary care is one thing. Its a whole other thing to chase them down and rope them in an arena just so you can win a prize. For me, that applies to cows as well as goats.

In the rodeo, it's like putting an unwilling person in an enclosed area and allowing a football team to tackle them just so the team can practice.


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## Emilea (May 16, 2007)

Ok I don't think "goat tying" is something I would watch HOWEVER i did sing my son up for the "muttin busting" (i think i'm saying it right) for the rodeo they do it like bull riding but with sheep for small kids... i don't see anything wrong with that... or the rodeo for that matter, The rodeo in NWA does not have nor had in the last years i have been going goat tying... so i don't think all rodeos can be spoke badly of as a whole.. the one in NWA was very good to the animals... I walked around back there and no physical wounds didn't even seem really jumpy.


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

MayLOC said:


> * Posted by: MOgal: Any ranch these days can easily and safely move portable working chutes to a site where the cattle are gathered.*


-------------------------------------------------------
Ok, I had no need to comment on anything said on this thread, until I saw this comment. Sorry but I have never seen anything so untrue. There are many, many ranches still out there that are very large scale and make this idea riduculous and very impractical. On these ranches, roping is not a skill of fun or sport, it is a skill of necescity in order to care for livestock. We ranch 36,000 acres in S. CO and a good deal of it is rough country that you can only get to horseback. In order to doctor livestock we often have to rope and treat calves, cows, bulls and yearlings and will continue to use this very valuable skill as long as we ranch. A good roper puts much less stress on an animal by quickly and expertly roping and treating than they would to have to gather them and run them into a portable chute set up who knows how far away  We also would not be able to look after all of our cattle and be able to check on them nearly as often if we had to haul around portable chutes (and panels of course) to every pasture we checked! Maybe give it a little thought. [/QUOTE] <---posted by MayLOC


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ok FN post, (the quote mechanism failed)
We sold out of the cattle business last year after the drought, cattle had been in this family and on this ranch since 1940.

We used cowboys to get our cattle to the auction. They would come out here and rope and tie the calves and culled cows and put them in the stock trailers. They were quick and good at their jobs. Their horses were well trained and these cowboys do this for a living. The cattle would not be stressed out as they did it so well and in a low-key manner. Using portable chutes would have been a big ordeal. The cowboys were quick, cheap and easy. They live on my road and a simple phone call and a few dollars and the job was done.


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## LFmenagerie (Mar 29, 2007)

I'll start by admitting that I know nothing!  
After reading these posts it sounds like cows and calves have a different mentality and they are just plain tougher than goats and the roping works on them. But goats are to fragile, mentally and physically for roping and throwing.
Agreed?

I have to admit that I have put a goat on her side occasionally when I've had no choice, but definately did not stake and tie then chase her, drop her, tie her, and put my knee into her. 

Pam


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