# Choosing the Right Gun?



## RubyRose (May 20, 2014)

So, I will hopefully be moving out on my own in the next year, year and a half, and I'm wanting a semiautomatic for defense when that happens. 

I learned to shoot on my father's Colt Gold Cup .45 ACP 1911 with hand-loaded ammo. 

My first instinct is to get a .45 of my own, because that's what I started shooting, I'm comfortable with it, and it has good knock-down power.

My father is of the opinion I should get a 9mm, because they hold more rounds and the factory ammo isn't as kicky. 

I think this is ridiculous, because you don't _need_ more rounds if you have a bigger caliber and are a decent shot, and what is the point of him having all the reloading equipment if I can't come home and hand load?

Right now I'm personally favoring a S&W M&P .45 ACP, with the ambidextrous safety, and the interchangeable mag release, so I can put it on the left. 

I want to do more research and get more options, but every time I go into gun shops, they always try to push me into the land of revolvers and .22s. Or, they completely ignore the fact that I said I am a left-handed shooter and try to sell me a gun because it is "pretty," even if it's harder for a left-handed shooter. I like things that are pretty, but I am of the opinion that a gun you are comfortable with, can shoot easily with your shooting hand, and will stop someone is more important than "pretty."

So suggestions? (And I am all for pretty if 'pretty' is also functional.)


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## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

I'd stick with a 1911 if you're set on a .45. However, my daily carry is a Springfield XD subcompact in .40, I wouldn't trade it for anything out there. They are naturally ambidextrous, too. Seth


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I like "pretty" too but for that kind of money it needs to be practical as well. I personally prefer revolvers but I've seen some nice .45 acp semi-autos. 

Buy and use what you like. You might try some other calibers just to see if you like them. 9 mm ammo is a bit easier to find than .45 acp and quite a bit cheaper. I wouldn't switch to a .22 unless you're hunting small game.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

One thing to remember, in a panic situation where you are having to pull a gun and defend yourself, unless you practice almost every day and have unbelievable muscle memory, more than likely, you're going to not be hitting your target as well as you think.. 

I'm a 1911 fanatic, but I almost never carry my 1911.. It's big, bulky and heavy, and harder to conceal.. 

I carry a CZ-82.. it's an easy pound lighter, and about half the size, and it carries twice the rounds the 1911 does... much easier to conceal, and not constantly pulling your pants down.. 

Also, it naturally points better than a 1911 does. Pull out a 1911.. close your eyes, and point it at a light switch or something.. then open your eyes... I will almost promise you you'll be pointing low.. that's just the way 1911's do.. they make you tip your wrist up just a hair to be on target.. 

There are a ton of great guns out there.. if you like 45, look at a Bond Arms derringer.. .or look at a Springfield XD... Much lighter than a standard 1911.. or look at a colt commander.. shorter and lighter, but not by much... 

I know people that carry a 1911 concealed, and I can usually tell it.. they are always pulling up their pants, or it prints bad through their clothes... 

You may not think they are that heavy, but carry one for a day.. you'll be looking for something smaller and lighter.

OH... now if this is going to be nothing more than a house gun, then yep.. that's what my 1911 is for.. the only gun I like to leave lay in easy reach in the house.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

some questions , will you be carrying or is this more of a "night stand gun"

of the small 45s I shot the XDS was the one that shot well for me 

but if it isn't a carry gun I would get what your used to 

and I don't understand why you wouldn't visit dad and reload a few hundred rounds a few times a year 

if you like 1911's and 45s then get one 

a reason to go with 9mm is for an easy to carry piece 

as for carry ammo there isn't that much of a difference price difference in 9mm or 45 acp jacketed hollow points both run about the same .


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## LT2108 (May 28, 2014)

My duty weapon is a G21 (.45ACP) and my off duty is a G30SF


Love the .45


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

You might take a look at Glock. They are making a full size and a compact in 45GAP which is a reduced 45acp that has a shorter cycle being built on the 9mm frame size. I'm thinking they hold 13 but don't quote me. I know you are used to the acp so this won't matter for you but I've shot them and the recoil is greatly reduced ,they cycle smoothly and seem to have plenty of punch. The stats on it match the acp in some categories as "double tap" etc.I thought at the time it would make a great gun for a beginner shooter or someone with recoil problems. AND Dad might be happy you are shooting reduced recoil and they can be loaded with an updated set of 45 acp/Gap dies.
Just a thought

Wade


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

wade you might want to go look at Winchester ammo they load 45acp and 45 gap to the exact same velocity and the exact same bullet , the GAP just gets rid of the wasted case volume so it fits in a gun with a shorter grip front to back 

the same projectile at the same speed with a shorter length of slide travel will not equal a savings in recoil especially in a lighter gun 

but Ruby go to a range try them and see what one you like don't sweat caliber , by the way 155gr 40S&w brings more energy to the fight than a 230gr 45 it is 1mm smaller than 45 1mm larger than 9mm and can bring 500 foot pounds of energy while the 45 gap and 45acp with 185 gr bullet brings 411fpe

One of our former 4H shooter is now in security , she had gone to National for pistol shooting about 7 years ago but most all her experience was in 22lr target work, she went to a range that rented guns she knew for her job she needed to fire a 40 s&w round so she tried all the guns and settled on the G23 it fit her and fit is one of the most crucial components to choosing a side arm I understand she has absolutly no problem shooting perfect qualification targets under the time limit.


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## Peasant (May 18, 2013)

All else being equal, more rounds are better than less. No reason to go with a 7-round mag when you can have a 15-round mag.

The difference between the terminal effects of a 9mm and .45 round is negligible. Shot placement is far more important. 

Find a handgun that's reliable and that you can shoot well. Reliability is #1. Ease of maintenance/repair and wide availability of parts and online information are bonuses. 

The Glock 19 fits all these criteria for me. Best general purpose handgun ever made IMHO. Ugly, but mine is boring reliable, zero stoppages of any kind.

Nothing wrong with a tested, reliable 1911 if you feel more comfortable with them. I haven't had good luck with 1911s, but many folks have.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

I'm with semi-steading, I'm a huge 1911 / .45ACP fan, shoot one in IDPA, but carry "Tupperware" in 9mm. My Walther PPQ is about the same overall size as my Les Baer "Stinger" (CCO). With it I gained a lighter pistol, with more than twice the capacity, and no longer wear suspenders when carrying. 

Basically with modern defensive ammo, the caliber wars are about moot. Most "defensive" calibers (.38SPL and up) with decent ammo will achieve similar penetration with the difference being the amount of expansion, even that isn't a drastic difference between calibers. Most of the testing I've seen shows about a .1" difference in .45 Vs 9mm expansion. You can get into the what if the 9 fails to expand, but now you're at .355 Vs .452, or again about .10". 

Pretty good info here:

http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/#PISTOL AMMUNITION

and while I really like the .45ACP, a 9mm is more controllable, easier to shoot week handed, generally greater capacity and cheaper to shoot (even reload). I flat out shoot a 9mm faster and more accurately (especially weak handed) than I do a .45. I've run the same COFs with both on the clock and unless I boggle a reload or a similar brain fart the 9mm wins out. 

If you're seriously on the fence, borrow a couple pistols, a shot timer and run a couple tests.

As for M&Ps, I have 2 M&P-9mm 5" Pro models one for matches the other set up for HD with light/laser. The newer M&Ps have a reworked sear, and a clearly defined reset, the trigger is quite good (not 1911 good, but Tupperware very good). The ergonomics are excellent with the swappable backstraps and both of mine have been utterly reliable for thousands of rounds. Aftermarket support is almost as good as Glock with abundant spare parts, holsters and sights. 

Chuck


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> wade you might want to go look at Winchester ammo they load 45acp and 45 gap to the exact same velocity and the exact same bullet , the GAP just gets rid of the wasted case volume so it fits in a gun with a shorter grip front to back
> 
> the same projectile at the same speed with a shorter length of slide travel will not equal a savings in recoil especially in a lighter gun
> 
> ...


You may be right on all that Pete,I have shot a few acp's but this Glock seemed to be a lot less recoil.Maybe it was just the fit of the gun as I don't normally carry an auto loader. I'm a wheel gunner by necessity.I have heard a lot of trash talk about the GAP but I can't see anything wrong with it other than the price of ammo,easily corrected by reloading your own.
Either way,my whole point was to check it out and not just listen to some BS out there and miss out on what might be the best choice.

Wade


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

1shotwade said:


> You may be right on all that Pete,I have shot a few acp's but this Glock seemed to be a lot less recoil.Maybe it was just the fit of the gun as I don't normally carry an auto loader. I'm a wheel gunner by necessity.I have heard a lot of trash talk about the GAP but I can't see anything wrong with it other than the price of ammo,easily corrected by reloading your own.
> Either way,my whole point was to check it out and not just listen to some BS out there and miss out on what might be the best choice.
> 
> Wade



that's actually a good thing to point out , weight, Erganomics and fit have everything to do with perceived recoil , the exact same load fired from a gun with good fit vs bad fit will feel like a hole different load


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I've done a lot of comparison considering recoil between my 45 and my 9... I think a big part of what people are calling recoil is actually more muzzle flip caused by a much heavier slide hitting the back of the frame stops... I've changed out the spring on my 1911 to several different ones, and found that heavier springs do help lessen the "recoil"

When I'm shooting 9 Mak, I can shoot a lot faster, but I think it's because I've got a lot less weight in slide kicking the back of the frame.. However, I've noticed the recoil has a lot more sting to it... I really believe that is the actual recoil, and not flip created by the slide.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

simi-steading said:


> I've done a lot of comparison considering recoil between my 45 and my 9... I think a big part of what people are calling recoil is actually more muzzle flip caused by a much heavier slide hitting the back of the frame stops... I've changed out the spring on my 1911 to several different ones, and found that heavier springs do help lessen the "recoil"
> 
> When I'm shooting 9 Mak, I can shoot a lot faster, but I think it's because I've got a lot less weight in slide kicking the back of the frame.. However, I've noticed the recoil has a lot more sting to it... I really believe that is the actual recoil, and not flip created by the slide.


I think you may be on to something with the barrel flip vs recoil I was talking to a guy who has one of those revolvers that fire from the bottom of the cylinder placing the force of the recoil much lower and inline with the wrist and he said even factory 357 mag rounds are fine for recoil in it. and he feels much more recoil form the same load in his other 357 that is of similar weight


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Watch this video Pete.. especially at about the 45 second mark.. It's about the best example of what I'm talking about.. This video is what really got me to look at tuning my 1911 with better springs and guides.. 

You can see there is actually very little recoil from the actual ignition, however, it's when the slide hits the back of the frame that things start to really happen.. 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YdEGWEX4LM[/ame]


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## Rollochrome (Apr 9, 2012)

I have studied this for years..........

It ALLLLLLL boils down to this IMHO:

Pray you never have to find out, but:

1. 80% of people shot with a handgun survive.
2. 20% of people shot with a long gun survive.

Therefore ALL handguns are going to be light on "knock down power" relative to a decent caliber long gun.

That being said......9mm vs. 45.....

1. They have basically the same terminal velocity. If you took the Pepsi Challenge and took one of each to the chest you would not be able to tell the difference. Nor would you act any differently. Both are getting shot center mass with a handgun, and unless you take a round thru the heart or brain stem, you're probably going to still be able to maneuver for some duration of time.
2. .45 is a larger bullet but slower. 9mm is a smaller bullet but faster. At the end of the day you generally get more rounds in a mag with 9mm and that trumps all the nominal differences beyond that....plus most 9mm are smaller frames, usually less recoil, and are easier to conceal and handle.

Conclusion: Buy a Glock 19. It's 15+1 and buy high quality hollow point ammo. I was a 1911 guy for YEARS until I studied it and switched over to 9mm, and the best 9mm hands down is Glock.

Don't get me wrong....1911's are COOL! But if it is a tool you are looking for...Glock in 9mm is my humble recommendation....


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Stick with your first thought, and ammo is a silly worry if you have a reloader set up. 9mm 's are just a 45 set on stun (yes I'm just being a smart er aleck)
Dutch


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## RubyRose (May 20, 2014)

Thanks, you've all given me a lot to think about. I was thinking more for personal defense, since I'm going to be dental assisting and I don't think you're allowed to CC in a dental office, but I would really like to since I don't drive, and walking home can be far from safe depending on where I find a job,

I am definitely looking at the XDs now, and I'd love to try out a .40, but no one I know seems to own one,.:grump: I'll take a more serious looks at some 9mms and a Glock or two.

Thanks again for all the advice!


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

it is going to depend on the state and the employer , a small independent dental office may not want you carrying at work but may be ok with you keeping your gun locked up in an office file cabinet or something while a work so you have to to and from.

here in Wisconsin your employer can prohibit you from carrying in the building but can not keep you from having your gun in your locked car even if they ask you to use your car for business , if they really want to not have you have a gun with you then they would provide a company vehicle 

but for carry smaller guns get carried more often , I carry a Ruger LC9 , because it is easy to carry and easy to hide in most any clothing , yet shoots well and has been very dependable zero issues with any ammo i have ever tried that said if your a lefty it has a right only safety the xds is a touch bigger but there are a lot of options in this sub compact class of carry guns


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

If I had a dime for every autopsy I've witnessed or assisted with, we'd all go to Disneyworld for a group trip.

That's just an intro statement to say I've seen a lot of GSW cases. Forget handguns, pack a shotgun. :rock: But back to handguns...

If you are only going to carry ball, their is no argument. Buy a .45.

Problem is, most folks carry better ammo than ball.

So, keep in mind the rule of 3's (3 yards, 3 shots, total elapsed time of less than 3 seconds) and the ironclad rule of 20 feet, then choose your weapon and ammo accordingly.

You want a firearm that you will always carry. You want a firearm you can shoot rapidly and well. You want a firearm that will negate the threat as quickly as possible, even with sub-optimal bullet placement.

What may be my Goldilock's Gun, may not be yours.


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## V-NH (Jan 1, 2014)

I like to carry whenever I am not at work and because I work in public service and am generally well known in my community, it is extremely important to me that my gun is completely concealed and that no one has even the slightest chance of knowing that it is there. That said, I did a lot of research and decided to go with a compact 9mm. I use the Kahr CW-9, it is a small 9mm that holds 7+1. The way I see it is that if I am ever in a situation where I need more than 8 shots, I need to find a way to escape rather than fight anyway. I don't have some kind of superhero fantasy where I pull out my gun and save the day. I carry it for the sole purpose of allowing me to escape if faced with a deadly situation.

Furthermore, if you are firing a gun in a public place and missing enough to need 15+ rounds you probably shouldn't have been firing your gun anyway. If you miss your target and kill an innocent bystander, you're a criminal. There simply isn't a situation that an everyday person is going to be in where you need that many rounds. I keep my 50 round AR-15 drums at home where they belong :nana:. That said, I would go with the larger caliber with fewer rounds if that is what you want. I don't think magazine capacity should be a consideration for an average everyday person when it comes to carrying.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I carry the Kahr CW9 also when in public.
Around home I carry something with more capacity, usually an XD9 or Glock
Not so much worried about people, but we do get the occasional chicken house raider, rabid skunk, coyote, snake, etc.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

V-NH said:


> I like to carry whenever I am not at work and because I work in public service and am generally well known in my community, it is extremely important to me that my gun is completely concealed and that no one has even the slightest chance of knowing that it is there. That said, I did a lot of research and decided to go with a compact 9mm. I use the Kahr CW-9, it is a small 9mm that holds 7+1. The way I see it is that if I am ever in a situation where I need more than 8 shots, I need to find a way to escape rather than fight anyway. I don't have some kind of superhero fantasy where I pull out my gun and save the day. I carry it for the sole purpose of allowing me to escape if faced with a deadly situation.
> 
> Furthermore, if you are firing a gun in a public place and missing enough to need 15+ rounds you probably shouldn't have been firing your gun anyway. If you miss your target and kill an innocent bystander, you're a criminal. There simply isn't a situation that an everyday person is going to be in where you need that many rounds. I keep my 50 round AR-15 drums at home where they belong :nana:. That said, I would go with the larger caliber with fewer rounds if that is what you want. I don't think magazine capacity should be a consideration for an average everyday person when it comes to carrying.


1. Sometimes things don't go as planned and averages have data points at both ends of the spectrum.

2. Don't think I've ever read of someone having been in a gunfight and complaining of having too much ammunition. 

3. Sometimes bad people come in multiples.

Chuck


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## wberry85 (Feb 28, 2013)

You looking to carry or a nightstand gun?

FNX 45 sounds like it would fit you well. 15+1 man stoppers would put your fathers argument to rest. Fully ambidextrous. DA/SA which imo is the best. Polymer frame which I personally am not a fan of but it has an awesome grip. I think of it as a polymer framed 1911. Killer go to war pistol. Its more than some people are looking for but it is super versatile and I have even carried it OWB and not too bad for the size.


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## V-NH (Jan 1, 2014)

Chuck R. said:


> 1. Sometimes things don't go as planned and averages have data points at both ends of the spectrum.
> 
> 2. Don't think I've ever read of someone having been in a gunfight and complaining of having too much ammunition.
> 
> ...


Doesn't change the fact that spraying 15 bullets in someone's general direction is highly irresponsible and even worse if you are spraying at multiple people. Some people are amazing shots and hit on target every time. The majority of people do not, which I think is a good enough reason not to advocate carrying something that holds 15+ rounds unless you're a pro. You've got to be really careful about what you carry and how you use it, because if you start firing like mad at someone and hit an innocent bystander you're going to go to jail. That's also a reason to be very careful about what caliber you carry. When I am hiking or hunting I carry a service size 357 magnum revolver, but I would never carry that when I am out and about in civilization because it has enough power to pass through someone. I'm all about your right to decide what you carry and to carry it if you want to, but I'm still going to give my two cents.


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## Peasant (May 18, 2013)

V-NH said:


> Doesn't change the fact that spraying 15 bullets in someone's general direction is highly irresponsible and even worse if you are spraying at multiple people.


Better to have and not need than to need and not have. If you "spray" when you shoot, you need more practice.



> Some people are amazing shots and hit on target every time. The majority of people do not, which I think is a good enough reason not to advocate carrying something that holds 15+ rounds unless you're a pro.


Your initial proposition logically requires the opposite conclusion.



> That's also a reason to be very careful about what caliber you carry.


Modern ammunition in the major handgun calibers (9mm, .40, .45, .38/.357) have marginal differences in terminal effect.


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## V-NH (Jan 1, 2014)

*Your initial proposition logically requires the opposite conclusion.*

I disagree. If you don't hit the first 7 times, you probably shouldn't keep trying and putting everyone else around you at risk.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

V-NH said:


> *Doesn't change the fact that spraying 15 bullets in someone's general direction is highly irresponsible* and even worse if you are spraying at multiple people. Some people are amazing shots and hit on target every time. The majority of people do not, which *I think is a good enough reason not to advocate carrying something that holds 15+ rounds unless you're a pro*. You've got to be really careful about what you carry and how you use it, because if you start firing like mad at someone and hit an innocent bystander you're going to go to jail. That's also a reason to be very careful about what caliber you carry. When I am hiking or hunting I carry a service size 357 magnum revolver, but I would never carry that when I am out and about in civilization because it has enough power to pass through someone. I'm all about your right to decide what you carry and to carry it if you want to, but I'm still going to give my two cents.


I might be off on my reading comprehension, but I can't find anywhere in the thread where someone advocated "spraying" anything. Why on earth would you come to the conclusion that only "pros" should carry a high capacity handgun??

I've taken several self defense handgun classes from a couple different instructors, one of whom advocated high capacity handguns (because people under stress miss, and multiple attackers), and none of them considered carrying a high capacity handgun to be any sort of liability. 

So using your logic that the majority of people do not hit their targets all the time, it's better for them to potentially face an adversary with an empty pistol, or have to reload? 

And as Peasant mentioned, there are suitable SD loads in .357 that don't over penetrate.

Chuck


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

the only down sides to more rounds is , more weight , bigger package and you have to carry it , and if you choose conceal it 

just because you have the rounds does not mean you have to use them 

as for crowds of by standards, the chance that you will have to use your side arm in a crowd is extremely unlikely few assaults happen in a big crowd , it is of course your responsibility to make sure you don't endanger others when you shoot


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

My Dear Wife chose her own guns, for defense. Her Dear Dad, was a Career Marine. And, he taught her to shoot. She has a nice 9mm, Browning Hi-Power. And she has a couple other semi-auto, 9mm pistols.

They are Keltec pistols. American made, but at a cheaper price point than most American pistols. They are not quite as cheap as the Hi-power pistols. But they are better quality, too.
I think they are double-action only. But when you get use to the stiff trigger they shoot pretty well.
If you are looking, you might want to check them out.
Edit to Add.... The main thing is to practice with your chosen weapons, on a regular basis. And a good coach helps a bit, too.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

V-NH said:


> *Your initial proposition logically requires the opposite conclusion.*
> 
> I disagree. If you don't hit the first 7 times, you probably shouldn't keep trying and putting everyone else around you at risk.


If so, what would you do if a shooter in a mall or some other place started walking your way AFTER you shot your 7 shots? Sure would be a mighty bad feeling. After you engaged the shooter and missed, do you think he would just say see ya later, have a nice day?


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## ArmyDoc (May 13, 2007)

1shotwade said:


> You might take a look at Glock. They are making a full size and a compact in 45GAP which is a reduced 45acp that has a shorter cycle being built on the 9mm frame size. I'm thinking they hold 13 but don't quote me. I know you are used to the acp so this won't matter for you but I've shot them and the recoil is greatly reduced ,they cycle smoothly and seem to have plenty of punch. The stats on it match the acp in some categories as "double tap" etc.I thought at the time it would make a great gun for a beginner shooter or someone with recoil problems. AND Dad might be happy you are shooting reduced recoil and they can be loaded with an updated set of 45 acp/Gap dies.
> Just a thought
> 
> Wade


 
I would echo this if you want .45 - that's what I did.

That said, what I wish I had done was buy a G20 (10mm). G22 (.40cal) would be my second choice. 40 cal. is very popular (making it cheaper and more readily available than .45. It is only 5/100s of an inch smaller than 45. It has a higher velocity and the G22 is built on a 9mm frame, which means you can switch to 9mm by changing barrels. (you can also change to .357 sig by changing barrels)

So why would I choose G20 as my first choice? Because with the 10mm frame I can shoot 10mm for self defense, which is very powerful, and shoot 40 for target practice. I carried 9mm in service, and I'm not impressed with it.


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## FireMaker (Apr 3, 2014)

There has been a great deal of discussion on the number of rounds - not important. Knowing how to handle what you have is most important. The knowledge and regular practice of malfunction drills and immediate action drills are what will likely save your life. This enhances your innate ability in handling that specific gun. This has been demonstrated by using speed strips and speed loaders with a 5 shot revolver. The other side was a hi cap semi. There were more hits in the given time with the revolver. This was NOT because the revolvers is better. The revolver shooter was better trained and practiced.

Also practice one hand and off hand shooting and reloading skills.

Failure to train will never be fixed with equipment.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

Hope you update us with your decision process.

Some claim the number of rounds doesn't matter. If starting from zero, why not have more? The caliber question doesn't seem to make as much difference as many want it to. Several Law Enforcement agencies have gone back to 9mm after using 40's and 45's. People shoot them better, and there hasn't been much difference in actual street performance with the new generation of loads (and I don't mean 25-30 year old tech like Hydra shocks or black talons, there is better ammo than both of them available today). There was one instance of an officer shooting someone trying to murder him 17 times (?) with a 45 before getting a head shot and ending it. He ended up going to a 9 and had more rounds available and carried more spare mags. Another made 22 hits with a 40 before things stopped. If either of those instances isn't reason enough to carry as many rounds on board as is practical, I don't know what is.

The "spraying" comment has been adequately addressed. I'm truly surprised someone posted that. Its a training issue, not a hardware issue. One can "spray" 7 rounds as well as 15. Either is wasting ammo. Aimed fire is more effective for all purposes. The idea that having a gun with more rounds somehow forces one to ignore the sights and hose down the surrounding area would be hilarious, if it weren't believed by so many people.

I'd suggest the original poster get some shooting time with various mid sized plastic framed guns. The Smith & Wesson M&P's are pretty good, and they seem to have addressed the accuracy problems that many of the earlier 9mm guns had, and the mid size Glocks are excellent, the model 19 being one of the most common and most practical for all around use.




FireMaker said:


> .... Knowing how to handle what you have is most important. The knowledge and regular practice of malfunction drills and immediate action drills are what will likely save your life. This enhances your innate ability in handling that specific gun. *This has been demonstrated by using speed strips and speed loaders with a 5 shot revolver. The other side was a hi cap semi. There were more hits in the given time with the revolver*. This was NOT because the revolvers is better. The revolver shooter was better trained and practiced.
> 
> Also practice one hand and off hand shooting and reloading skills.
> 
> Failure to train will never be fixed with equipment.


 I agree that practice and training are a very important factor in whatever one chooses to carry. The self loader gives more options in truly bad situations, this coming from a huge revolver fan. The main reason to carry a revolver are that the small J frame Smith & Wessons are easier to conceal in many instances. The reliability factor when pocket carried (dust, lint, crud) is also a valid issue with a revolver. Holster carried, I think the self loader comes way out on top.


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## RubyRose (May 20, 2014)

I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. It was really incredibly helpful. In the end, I went with a S&W M&P .40 compact. I even managed to get it on sale because the gun shop near me was having a big sale. it carries 10 +1, which isn't bad, and is small enough that if I decide to carry concealed in the future it's doable. 

:goodjob:


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

You made and excellent choice. M&P C models are great guns and shoot well. I carry one everyday.


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## RubyRose (May 20, 2014)

I really liked it. And the shop I bought it at even switched the slide release to the left side and put the small backstrap on it for me, despite the fact that it was crazy busy. I got it for $499, and got a $20 gift certificate for spinning a prize wheel during their anniversary sale. Not a bad deal.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

You will like it. My eyes are getting a tad old and I put an XS Big Dot sight on mine and love it.
https://www.xssights.com/products.aspx?CAT=8208


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## Tex- (May 18, 2014)

RubyRose, you bought an excellent firearm. Now that you have a reliable firearm, Practice, Practice, Practice. 

A person can buy the bes firearm ever built, but if they don't practice, they may as well have a rock. Check in your local area for shooting classes and instruction. Even if the class isn't that good, you will still walk away learning something useful. Look around on YouTube for instructional videos about how to break down your new firearm for cleaning and practice that. You can never know your gun too well and keeping it clean and functional may save your life one day.

Good luck getting proficient with your new gun and hopefully you will have fun shooting it.


Tex


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## RubyRose (May 20, 2014)

Tex- said:


> RubyRose, you bought an excellent firearm. Now that you have a reliable firearm, Practice, Practice, Practice.
> 
> A person can buy the bes firearm ever built, but if they don't practice, they may as well have a rock. Check in your local area for shooting classes and instruction. Even if the class isn't that good, you will still walk away learning something useful. Look around on YouTube for instructional videos about how to break down your new firearm for cleaning and practice that. You can never know your gun too well and keeping it clean and functional may save your life one day.
> 
> ...


Thanks Tex!

Luckily for me, I already know the basics of shooting, and I have my father to teach me more. The only _real_ problem for me, is finding somewhere _to_ shoot. All the ranges around me are private clubs, and require you to know a member to get in. The state gamelands are only for rifle. My dad belongs to a club, but it requires two references to become a member, and he can only be one. 

So if anyone knows any public ranges in Pennsylvania Highlands/Southeastern PA region I'd be very grateful!


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