# Prohibit for pregnant does & weight estimate



## VA Susan (Mar 2, 2010)

Does anyone know if it is safe to use Prohibit de-wormer on pregnant does? 
They've got stomach worms. Not a bad case though. Our buck had them and the only effective de-wormer we used on him was Prohibit.
Also how can you estimate weight? I remember reading about a product you can buy that goes around the goat to estimate weight.
Thanks.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

When was the doe bred?


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## VA Susan (Mar 2, 2010)

Not sure. We got two fecal samples and have three does but don't know which doe it came from. One sample had a few stomach worms the other had none. They've run with the buck for the last month. Guessing late October. Could be more recently though depending on who it was.


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## VA Susan (Mar 2, 2010)

My husband talked with a Vet at another vets office today and they thought it would be OK not to worm since they only have a few worms, but said to keep a watch on their eyelids. I am worried about using a de-wormer with the pregnant goats. Can you use the copper boluses on them while pregnant? Will copper keep the worm load from getting bad?


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Good veterinary advice.  

Body condition, fecal consistency, FAMANCHA (eyelid) score, and fecal egg counts all play into the decision of wether or not to deworm. If they are a good weight, normal poop, pregnant/unstressed, have a low FEC, then do not deworm. ALL goats *will* have worms, wether or not you find eggs - there are many life stages that are not producing eggs. In the colder winter months, ONE reason that can be the case is because less eggs are shed when, through some biology not quite well understood, the eggs would not survive in the environment and become infective due to the cold temperatures. . It is NOT the goal to 'eliminate' worms (impossible), it is to manage them, especially in highly susceptible animals (young, debilitated, stressed etc)

Generally the ONLY time you deworm on schedule is at kidding, to counteract the inevitable immune suppression that occurs at parturition. Otherwise, all dewormings should be done as needed. With good management, some raisers and (most sheep raisers) still only do an as-needed basis deworming. 

Copper, used properly, should not be problematic to give. I usually give it pre-breeding and pre-kidding, personally. It is not a cure-all, because management and other conditions play a HUGE role. Not all parasites are susceptible to copper irritation as well, it works mainly to HELP control some stomach parasites.


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## VA Susan (Mar 2, 2010)

Sounds good. Thank you, My goat!


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## VA Susan (Mar 2, 2010)

We will still worm the buck (whose been loaded with the stomach worms in the past) but need to guess his weight for the Prohibit. I read here somewhere about a belt you can use to estimate weight. I think you're the one who mentioned it and that Jeffers sells it. What is it called?


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Oh yes, a weight tape. If you have a flexible measuring tape, there is a conversion chart out there somewhere too, to convert inches to weight. It works 'pretty well'. My sr bucks and my wether are too big for it.  

http://www.jefferspet.com/products/goat-weigh-tape

Is he loaded with parasites right NOW though? The past may or not be important here. Many parasite infections go through something called 'self cure' which is where the immune system kicks in and brings it back down to manageable. If he is a good weight (consider that many bucks loose weight due to rut which is pretty normal), normal poops, and his eyelids are a good color, I wouldn't be so quick to deworm now. This time of year, the worms go dormant. You kill off all the susceptible ones now, and only the more resistant hardier ones survive the winter to seed your pastures with their resistant genetics once they go back into reproduction in the spring.


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## marusempai (Sep 16, 2007)

Here is the conversion chart: http://fiascofarm.com/goats/weight-chart.htm

Any flexible measuring tape works, but my goats are kind of afraid of the retractable ones.


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## wintrrwolf (Sep 29, 2009)

Just in case you decide to go ahead and worm I do know some mix the prohibit up for the concentrated dose which I believe causes some of the side effect of foaming at the mouth and has serious side effects if given to much per weight. With the normal mix of the 52 grams to a gallon of water or ...128 oz of water you would be fine to dose a pregnant doe. As stated above if there isn't an issue with worm load right now waiting until kidding would be best since kidding is a stressor and will kick start those parasites to head south to uterus and udder. 
Hmmm just had a thought do the goat stomach worms pass via uterus or milk or both? Duh I should know this...


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## VA Susan (Mar 2, 2010)

Thanks everyone! My goat, no he is not loaded with parasites now. He only had a few worms in his sample. He is six months now.
We can take fecals in to keep them checked. I tested eyelids last night. Everyone looks OK.


We did use the concentrated dose of Prohiblt on the buckling since they tend to spit it out, we wanted to get down as much as possible. What I did was get a large syringe of water and squirted it into his mouth immediately after dosing him. He hates the Prohibit. We were able to weigh him then before de-worming but now he is too big to pick up. What I'm afraid of is that we are now dealing with highly resistant stomach worms. 
He was wormed with cydectin, safeguard, valbazen, and finally Prohibit. He stayed anemic and I dosed him with iron tonic each night. Each time but the last he would still have a significant worm load. The valbazen worked better than the others and reduced the worm load but still left enough worms that would come back to infest him. The Prohibit wiped those worms out. We did a fecal on him before putting him in with the girls to breed them and we wormed him then and one more time to make sure he would not infect the girls and our field. The does have not even needed worming this summer. We had goats over 30 yrs ago so have had only minor problem with tapes and coccidiosis for the girls. They have never had any stomach worms before. We're thinking the Prohibit solution we kept in the fridge even though it was not expired, was too old to work effectively on the buck as before or else the worms are resisitent. It might be both things too.


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## wintrrwolf (Sep 29, 2009)

yes I threw mine away after 60 days even though it says it will keep for up to 90 days. I forgot to add before and I am sorry, was told that the levamisole (prohibit) does affect thiamine production so when I dosed I also followed it with a B complex injection.


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