# Alternative pellet stove fuels...Am I crazy?



## Cistern

I've been researching alternative energy solutions for my urban homestead for over a year now with mixed success. I do not have good southern exposure, but solar use would be limited at best. I've recently been looking into pellet stoves, since my biggest concern would be heating in the winter time. I live in Eastern PA, so winters here can be pretty cold, but it's not North Dakota cold. 

Now, here's my idea. I've read pellet stoves can run on other fuel sources such as nutshells, tree bark, etc. Since our local sewer authority recently installed a new sludge dryer, the afterproduct (granualated sludge) is being offered for free to customers of the authority. The moisture content of this stuff is very low and extremely non-toxic. I've looked at the testing results and the amount of heavy metals present is nearly non-existant. 

So, does anyone know if you could use something like this in a pellet stove? Is there something inherently unworkable? How versatile are pellet stoves when you plan on using various fuel sources?

Any feedback, ideas, or commentary would be welcome, since I'm thinking I'm probably so out in left field I don't even realize it.:gaptooth:


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## 12vman

Dried cow patties will burn. Get a bucket full and light them up.. See what happens..

Nothing ventured, nothing gained..


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## artificer

The first thing I would be worried about is the ash content. Lots of minerals would raise that. Typical wood pellets have 1-3% ash, less is better. If high ash, then you have to clean out your system more frequently, or have an automated ash auger.

Second... how does the material flow? Is it flakes, or can it be made into pellets. Granules may or may not flow well. If they plug up the hopper, they will not work. If the granules are too small, they will fall through the grate. Maybe you could get a finer grate, but will it then work correctly?

Are they selling the granulated sludge as fuel or fertilizer? I assume fuel, since you want to burn it, but around here they spray the sludge on fields as fertilizer.

What is the BTU content of the granules and how do they burn? Can you light a small pile of them with the fire goo, and they stay lit? If not, it might cause problems.

I'm not saying that it will not work, just that more information is needed.

Michael


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## Ross

The small city west of here pelletizes their sludge and gives it to farmers as fertilizer. Its been through the digesters so alot of he energy will have been used by the microbes. Using it as a fuel is an interesting idea. Makes me shudder a bit but you gotta look past that I'm sure!


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## rileyjo

I have seen ads in the Ontario Farmer newspaper for a pellet stove fuel made out of dried grass. I have a pstove and I dont like the smell of it but it works well. Grass pellets sound very renewable. I wonder how much energy it takes to produce them?


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## Ross

> I have seen ads in the Ontario Farmer newspaper for a pellet stove fuel made out of dried grass. I have a pstove and I dont like the smell of it but it works well. Grass pellets sound very renewable. I wonder how much energy it takes to produce them?


I'd think the same as pelleted animal feeds. Run the grass through a hammer mill so its dust, add water if needed (I forget the moisture content) then run it through an extruder. I'd think they would dry the pellets a bit more than the extruder puts out although, between the force of the screw and the compresion it would lose alot of the added water.


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## artificer

rileyjo said:


> I have seen ads in the Ontario Farmer newspaper for a pellet stove fuel made out of dried grass. I have a pstove and I dont like the smell of it but it works well. Grass pellets sound very renewable. I wonder how much energy it takes to produce them?


We have a local seed company that purchased pelletizing equipment to make biomass pellets from their straw. When wood pellets were running $220/ton, they sold theirs at around $160/ton. The ash content was higher, 4-6%, IIRC.

I was doing some research on pelletizing, and 5% energy content comes to mind. A simple thought puzzle to check: most of the energy goes into the pellets as heat. If you say it has a heat rise of 100 degrees, thats 100btu/lb of fuel (for water, wood is 20% of that). Pellets have 6,000-9,000btu/lb energy. 100/6,000 = 1.7% Even a 200degF temp rise will result in less than 5% energy content for pelletizing. Hammer milling to dust is a different matter. The grasses will be fairly low energy content vs. wood chips.

Take a look at this video... pellets from leaves in your yard. I WANT one of those things. Wood pellets, custom feed pellets for the chickens...

Michael


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## Micheal

For those that may be interested and not know this is available:

FarmTek, on-line and in their latest cat. (on P 313) offer Pellet Mills (make your own biomass fuel pellets). The 4 they offer are either an electric mod or a PTO (tractor driven) model in 2 different sizes.
Cost -  - PTO $6500.00 and $7500.00; electric with 3-phase motor $8000.00 and $16,550.00..........


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## Illini

These pellet mills are obviously not as robust as the ones Michael mentioned, but I wonder whether they'd do the job for home use?

This company, in Iowa, is within an hour's drive of my place

http://www.pelletpros.com/id68.html

and these folks are in Wisconsin

http://www.pelletmasters.com/products/

I'm wondering whether well-dried rabbit, goat, and/or sheep manure would work without the expense of pelletizing? I certainly have plenty around 

Kathy


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## Cistern

Definitely some interesting information being offered up here. I never knew anything like pellet mills even existed. 

I think I'm going to have to get some of the dried sludge I mentioned in the OP and experiment a bit. I wish I knew someone with one of those pellet mills nearby to perhaps try and make some pellets with it. Does anyone know what the BTU output would be, comparatively speaking, with something like pelleted leaves vs. standard wood pellets? 

Reason I ask, I'm trying to see if something like pelletizing freely available raw product, like leaves and grass, would be worth the time and effort, if the heating capibility isn't very high.


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## fordson major

as artificer stated there is a high ash content, pellets are best used as fertilizer though not on crops for human consumtion. nor should you use canine/ feline excriment on human feed crops except fruit trees! the pellets i have seen from the pelletizer would not feed well in any pellet stove i have seen, maybe a sedore stove but tha is manual feed! there was a good article in this weeks ontario farmer on the various feed stock crops for grass pellets but no BTU break down. supposed to head over too the college next week can see if they have any info on BTU,s.


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## Ken Scharabok

One problem with pellet stoves is pellet availability. From what I can tell I'd have to drive about 60 miles to a lumber mill and buy by the pallet. Say the cost were $220/ton. If 50-lb bags, when 40 bags at a cost of $5.50 a day. Say you went through one bag a day. That's some $165 month.

My current electric winter bill is about $200 month. $35 difference. And electricity is clean, constant and clean.


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## artificer

Ken Scharabok said:


> One problem with pellet stoves is pellet availability. From what I can tell I'd have to drive about 60 miles to a lumber mill and buy by the pallet. Say the cost were $220/ton. If 50-lb bags, when 40 bags at a cost of $5.50 a day. Say you went through one bag a day. That's some $165 month.
> 
> My current electric winter bill is about $200 month. $35 difference. And electricity is clean, constant and clean.


What's your electric rate? If you're still down at $.08/kwhr, then pellets may not make as much sense as people with $.12/kwhr.

For 1 million BTU's, a 70% efficient pellet stove costs $19.49 at $220/ton
With electric it is $23.44 and $35.16 for the million BTUs at $.08 and $.12/kwhr.

If your electrical rate is $.12/kwhr, I would estimate that you would only need $100/month worth of pellets. This is a guesstimate using $180/month of electrical usage as heat.

Pellet and wood stoves aren't for everyone. When they work for the user, they can save some to a lot of money.

FYI, typical bag of pellets around here is 40lbs, and 50/ton/pallet. Unless of course you talk to our local seed company that sells grass pellets. They sell by the ton in bulk. $40 charge the first time for a tote.

Michael


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## Ken Scharabok

"I got my pellets this year straight from the wood flooring manufacturer and they delivered for $30. 
Going by $5.50 a 40lb bag, I got 3 tons for the price of 2."

If 40 rather than 50 pound bags, then there would be $50 bags to the ton. At $220 ton it would be $4.40 a bag.

With either size bag, at $220 ton works out to $.11 pound.

Yes, my electric bill for last month was $200. However, that included heat (and I like to keep the place quite warm), electric hot water heater, yard light, lights, TV, computer and appliances and the entire shop (natural gas heat when I use it).


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## Windy in Kansas

Since we are talking about alternatives here I'll toss this into the mix. I live in "The Wheat State", i.e. Kansas. Even in dry western Kansas one can with fair reliability grow a decent crop of wheat. For my home county with a 19" rainfall the county average is greater than 40 bushels per acre. Forty bushels at the 60 lb. per bushel benchmark yields 2400 pound of grain per acre.

So I have considered getting a grain burning stove. One which can handle a variety of grains with one model including corn and even wood pellets. 

The problem I see is that for grain burning they need to have a blower which of course requires electricity. 

There is a fair amount of research being done in using switchgrass residue as fuel. It is harvested toward the end of summer for maximum growth. While they do keep working with switchgrass I really think they need to also be doing a lot with Conservation Reserve Program grass residue and also with wheat stubble and corn stover. 

A small town Kansas company does convert biomass into pellet fuel for industrial burning. http://www.prairiefirecoop.com/ On their web site they mention using ditch grass. What state doesn't have a lot of highways that could have residue pelleted rather than just mowed down? 

While most all of us need some home heating I really think we should pursue super-insulation for our homes before getting too carried away with heating end of the equation.


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## fordson major

i do believe that these stoves burn anything and require no power! looked at them some years ago at a ploughing match!
http://www.sedoreusa.com/howitworks.html


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## rileyjo

That is my xDh's family name so quite a few relatives bought Sedore stoves for that reason and loved them.
They are being manufactured right here on the Island by a franchise holder and he cant keep up with the demand for them. They burn anything and seem to be good and practical stoves. 

The pellet stove is strictly for convenience. My house was built in 1877 and the foundation is foot thick limestone. I work long hours and get home late at night. The central heat oil/woodburner in the basement is 65 years old and smokey. The woodstove in the basement is too small to hold heat for the time that I am away. The pellet stove is on the main floor. I get home at 11pm, oush a button, go down and check the barn beasts and by the time I'm inside again, the house is beginning to warm up. 

The nasty pellet stove smoke backs into the house whenever there is a power failure. It must be installed incorrectly. The acrid smoke fills the house and drives me outside. I keep a battery and an inverter handy and I quickly rig it up to run the fan to push the smoke outside when the power fails. Because of that, I dont run the pellet stove unless I'm home. I had it checked and the installer cant find the problem. Anyone else ever have a similar problem?


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## Explorer

rileyjo, I believe that is normal when a pellet stove loses power. When the power fails the forced exhaust draft fan stops (not a natural draft like a wood stove) and the smoke finds the shortest route to exit. On my stove it is thru the air intake into the house. You can fix it in one of two ways, buy a rubber stopper for the intake pipe (mine is about 1 1/2 inches) and remember to remove it when the fire is dead or route you air intake for outside air.


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## Windy in Kansas

ford major said:


> i do believe that these stoves burn anything and require no power! looked at them some years ago at a ploughing match!
> http://www.sedoreusa.com/howitworks.html


Hm, what are these units to be used for? This is at the bottom of their page: "Warning: This Furnace/Boiler is not designed to be used as a space heater."


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## fordson major

Windy in Kansas said:


> Hm, what are these units to be used for? This is at the bottom of their page: "Warning: This Furnace/Boiler is not designed to be used as a space heater."


now thats a darn good question!:indif:


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## Ken Scharabok

Inquiring minds want to know. I asked them. Reply was it wasn't a space heater, it was a furnace/boiler. Duhhh. To me a furnace is something which produces heat which is then transferred to other locations via ducting. A space heater radiates heat into the surrounding area. Sure looks like a space heater/boiler (optional) to me.


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## Windy in Kansas

Thanks for clarifying with what you learned from them Ken.


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## rileyjo

Old Uncle Harve Sedore has his Sedore stove right in the centre of the kitchen. It sure did radiate out some heat and it was not attached to any central ductwork. Maybe there are different kinds. Maybe Ol Harve just wanted to make sure that everyone saw his stove...


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## Ross

I can't speak for Sedore but on an oil furnace you don't use them as space heaters because they are designed to have a fixed temperature rise from the duct work. When used without you can get a cold blast that might crack th heat exchanger. Really its just to match the UL (or whomever) testing to stay in certification. Lawyers at work. 

I was looking on youtube and found someone pelletizing grass. Looks prety simple
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cq63ak0Fmw&feature=related[/ame]

Lots and lots of video on pellets there.


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## Ken Scharabok

Further information provided by Sedore:

"Water coils can be added which make it a boiler, and the water coils can also feed a plenum which mounts internally on a present forced air heating system. I guess the main thing about being a furnace/boiler is the model 3000 can heat up to 6000 plus square feet which really puts it in a different league than a parlor stove. It also puts it into a category that does not have to be EPA approved, and to receive that status those items like space heater had to be eliminated. We could no longer call it anything but a boiler/furnace. There's a lot more to the storey, but I'll spare you the torment unless requested? "


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## farminghandyman

some corn stoves will burn pellets check with the manufacture to see what they say,


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## Mel-

ken,

oh go ahead and request ! I want to read the story


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## brm5985

Ross said:


> The small city west of here pelletizes their sludge and gives it to farmers as fertilizer. Its been through the digesters so alot of he energy will have been used by the microbes. Using it as a fuel is an interesting idea. Makes me shudder a bit but you gotta look past that I'm sure!


 interestingly, I ran a plant in Oneida County, New York in 1988-1990 that incinerated sludge. at 25 percent solids, the burn was autogenous. At 40 percent, you'd get a good burn. Ask the sludge supplier what the solids content is... Believe me, they know the answer - and every thing else about the product.


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