# Where is the commen sense???



## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

I took a small hiatus from here during the ownership debacle and was encouraged buy another member to come back. since being active again I see the Muslim defenders are in full force. Do these people not know that if they inserted themselves into radical Muslim culture they are defending that they would be raped , beaten, forbidden to drive, and possibly killed because they are Americans. I don't see the logic!


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## trulytricia (Oct 11, 2002)

Yep. As flawed and bad as this country can be Muslims do not offer anything in any way better.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Common sense is the new super power and it ain't at all that common. 

Common sense has been replaced by the unstoppable force of defending the indefensible and believing in the unbelievable.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

M5farm said:


> I took a small hiatus from here during the ownership debacle and was encouraged buy another member to come back. since being active again I see the Muslim defenders are in full force. Do these people not know that if they inserted themselves into radical Muslim culture they are defending that they would be raped , beaten, forbidden to drive, and possibly killed because they are Americans. I don't see the logic!


Maybe you are reading the propaganda. No one is defending the religion. We are however fighting against bigots who convict every individual who is a Muslim because of the actions of others.

It is wrong and bigoted.


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## cfuhrer (Jun 11, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Maybe you are reading the propaganda. No one is defending the religion. We are however fighting against bigots who convict every individual who is a Muslim because of the actions of others.
> 
> It is wrong and bigoted.


And yet the very same thing happens to gun owners regularly and without apology or second thought.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

what if I posted that I just adopted a tiger and decided that he did not need to be caged and let him have free roam of my house with my small children. would anybody say that was a good idea????


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

cfuhrer said:


> And yet the very same thing happens to gun owners regularly and without apology or second thought.


And it happens to atheists, liberals and conservatives. It is wrong.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

M5farm said:


> what if I posted that I just adopted a tiger and decided that he did not need to be caged and let him have free roam of my house with my small children. would anybody say that was a good idea????


Well since you tiger is not a human who can think and reason it would be a different situation.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

cfuhrer said:


> And yet the very same thing happens to gun owners regularly and without apology or second thought.


Cops too
there are those here who hate every cop, never met a good one, blah blah blah


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> And it happens to atheists, liberals and conservatives. It is wrong.


I dislike racists and bigots myself.
Obama is a bigot, one reason to dislike him.
Muslims are extremely bigoted too


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

M5farm, common sense left when political correctness came in and has tried to take over.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

M5farm said:


> what if I posted that I just adopted a tiger and decided that he did not need to be caged and let him have free roam of my house with my small children. would anybody say that was a good idea????


I cannot honestly answer that, haven't met your kids.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

The issues that cause a small group of posters is not love or even respect for Muslim cultures. It is the absolute viseral need to counter the wrong thinking they see in what they term conservative bigots. It is opposition to people they don't like that they actually have to meet. The people who are not posting, no matter how much they would irritate if they were, are to be defended solely because they are being picked on by the ones who are hated.
So, if a person has posted distaste for same sex marriage, for example, subsequently posts distaste for some Muslim religious tenets, then this small group will not pause in attacking, not because they support the tenets but because they hate the poster and want him to be paid back in spades.

This does not apply to all for there are a few who actually find the criticism of Muslims intolerable.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Painterswife I respect your opinion and you have every right to defend what you believe in. however its easy to do here. I would suggest you do a little research on the role of women in the Islamic culture and see if your values and views may be skewed because of the culture you were raised in. Who's right - who's wrong IDK. what I do know is the FACTS are overwhelming these radical muslims are intent on destroying what rights you so dearly love and once they are gone they can never be taken back.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

M5farm said:


> Painterswife I respect your opinion and you have every right to defend what you believe in. however its easy to do here. I would suggest you do a little research on the role of women in the Islamic culture and see if your values and views may be skewed because of the culture you were raised in. Who's right - who's wrong IDK. what I do know is the FACTS are overwhelming these radical muslims are intent on destroying what rights you so dearly love and once they are gone they can never be taken back.


Very familiar with the religion. Family and friends who are Islamic. I form my opinions on individuals.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Very familiar with the religion. Family and friends who are Islamic. I form my opinions on individuals.


Do they condone the laws that on stoning , beheadings and child rape ?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Radicals of any religion, color, gender whatever tag, need to be stopped. Especially the ones that promote and commit violence.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

TripleD said:


> Do they condone the laws that on stoning , beheadings and child rape ?


They do not.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Lets put the radical muslims aside for a min. The rest of the "religion" is still sick. Their main thoughts,ideoligy,reason for living ect.- it's all sick. Here is a vid, I watched a good one earler and can't find it again, there are many tho youtube is the same as many sites like facebook that delets what tells the truth about islam.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI3sA004xlQ[/ame]


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Just on the issue of how islam treats their Women/girls- disgusting right there alone.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

painterswife said:


> They do not.


Do they stand up and voice their opinion loudly on just stay quiet about it ? Just asking because I don't know any. I do know of a family about 2 miles from me .


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

painterswife said:


> Very familiar with the religion. Family and friends who are Islamic. I form my opinions on individuals.


How many times do you see on the news that when a person commits a terrible crime friends and family say "well, I never thought they were capable of that. Ive know them for 20 yrs and they were the nicest person and worked in the community" you nor I can ever know what goes on between ears of people. all we can do is make observation on what their core beliefs in the environment they are immersed in.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

LOL- You are making assumptions as to why I started the thread. I asked simple questions looking for answers as to why "common sense" is no longer used. It has become a society of people that only see things thru the prism of social justice. "its the right thing to do" "its unfair" if the Muslims don't want to be targeted they should quit terrorizing the world. if its a religion of peace then set the example. Its human nature to talk about headlines. you really don't want to know how I feel about "welfare" "thugs" and scum of our society that profess to be Christians. I don't discriminate based on race, sex color or age.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I cannot honestly answer that, haven't met your kids.


I wanted to say that, but I've been told I'm "too antagonistic" so I didn't risk it.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> LOL- You are making *assumptions as to why* I started the thread.


It seemed very clear to me.
You simply declared anyone who doesn't agree with you lacks common sense.

That was in the title and first two sentences:



> Where is the commen sense???
> I took a small hiatus from here during the ownership debacle and was encouraged buy another member to come back. since being active again I see the Muslim defenders are in full force.


It really doesn't leave much to the imagination.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> Maybe you are reading the propaganda.
> 
> No one is defending the religion.
> 
> ...


That is the most brilliant thing I have read in GC in a month.
This is a TRUE and FACTUAL statement that MANY things can be inserted into:

Exchange the word "Muslim" for:

Christians
Blacks
Whites
Hispanics
Gays
Atheists 
Women
Men
Pit Bulls
Democrats
Republicans
Liberals
Conservative
Catholics
Jews
Dog lovers
Cat lovers
And I think you get my point.

It would bode us well to follow this model.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It seemed very clear to me.
> You simply declared anyone who doesn't agree with you lacks common sense.
> 
> That was in the title and first two sentences:
> ...





Laura Zone 10 said:


> That is one of the most brilliant things I have read in GC in a month.
> This is a TRUE and FACTUAL statement that MANY things can be inserted into:
> 
> Exchange the word "Muslim" for:
> ...


I don't disagree with premise we should all be tolerant of the different groups but none of the groups you have listed have publicly said they want to rid society of Our kind like the radical islamist have done. Tell me is the sheik of Iran Muslim ??? did he not say death to America ??


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

M5farm said:


> I don't disagree with premise we should all be tolerant of the different groups but none of the groups you have listed have publicly said they want to rid society of Our kind like the radical islamist have done. Tell me is the sheik of Iran Muslim ??? did he not say death to America ??


No. Actually. The Shah of Iran didn't say death to America. He was toppled by Khomenei, who was the one who said death to America. And if you want to be realistic, his message was popular because we helped topple the popularly elected government of Iran after they tried to nationalize their oil industry against the wishes of Western companies. We installed the Shah. The Shah was not popular. Now we have a problem. And we tried to use Iraq to punish them for that.... And then we had another problem.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

M5farm said:


> I don't disagree with premise we should all be tolerant of the different groups but none of the groups you have listed have publicly said they want to rid society of Our kind like the radical islamist have done. Tell me is the sheik of Iran Muslim ??? did he not say death to America ??



*We are however fighting against bigots who convict every individual who is a Muslim because of the actions of others.*

Not every single muslim wants to rid society of _______.
Radicals?
You bet.
Not every single muslim.

Not every single christian supports Westboro Band of Lunatics.
Radicals, brainwashed, haters?
You bet.
Not every single christian.

Not ever single black person supports BLM
Radicals, criminals, sociopaths?
You bet.
Not every single black.

That's the point.
Put down the broad brush, hold radials, loonies, criminals accountable but do not condemn every single person that happens to be black, muslim or christian.......


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura, we can't agree with each other. It will make some people fry some brain cells. You are going to have to change your opinion because I posted first.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> Laura, we can't agree with each other. It will make some people fry some brain cells. You are going to have to change your opinion because I posted first.


Sorry, no take backs. You said something brilliant and I agreed so much I quoted it, bolded it, enlarged the font and change the color......:rock:


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

If I say ford pinto- what say you?????


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Don't get rear ended


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Crash and die.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

but all of them didn't explode when hit. only a few!!!!! I would hesitate riding in one but I would dang sure be very cautious.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

M5farm said:


> I don't disagree with premise we should all be tolerant of the different groups but none of the groups you have listed have publicly said they want to rid society of* Our kind* like the radical islamist have done. Tell me is the sheik of Iran Muslim ??? did he not say death to America ??


Lots of people have said "death to _________"
That has nothing to do with the people here.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Our kind", since you don't seem to think some here are "your kind"


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

where I want to said:


> No- you say 90% of the posters think something when in fact only the occasional poster is that sure of anything. The rest think there are *problems to be discussed.* Which never gets done because the possibility of dialog gets cut off by the posts like yours.
> Suddenly, instead of talking about reality, people are defending themselves from *made up accusations* just like your post.


What "made up accusations"?


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Lots of people have said "death to _________"
> That has nothing to do with the people here.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by "Our kind", since you don't seem to think some here are "your kind"


Common sense would lead you to "our Kind" as being Americans. And yes lots of folks have said it and lots folks have tried it. and lots folks will continue to kill Americans.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

M5farm said:


> Common sense would lead you to "our Kind" as being Americans. And yes lots of folks have said it and lots folks have tried it. and lots folks will continue to kill Americans.


No one *here* has ever defended that at all.

"Common sense" says you don't blame an entire group for the action of a few


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> No one *here* has ever defended that at all.
> 
> "Common sense" says you don't blame an entire group for the action of a few


Maybe we should ask the bad guys to wear uniforms or special caps. Or maybe until the goods one do a better job of weeding out the bad ones they all get lumped together. 

Maybe you have an idea how to sort the good ones from the bad ones?

Common sense tells me we fight them until they give up or are gone.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Maybe we should ask the bad guys to wear uniforms or special caps. Or maybe until the goods one do a better job of weeding out the bad ones they all get lumped together.
> 
> Maybe you have an idea how to sort the good ones from the bad ones?
> 
> Common sense tells me we fight them to they give up or are gone.


This thread was not about the bad guys. It was about the people here supposedly defending the religion of Islam.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

M5farm said:


> but all of them didn't explode when hit. only a few!!!!! I would hesitate riding in one but I would dang sure be very cautious.


I see your point.
Because a few were bad, the whole lot of Pinto's were tainted.
The media made a HUGE big deal (I remember) it was in the newspapers every day, and only the bad was in your face all the time.

I suppose the bad Pintos were made in certain years......so the ones before, and the ones after the bad Pintos, are ok?

I see where you are coming from.

Stigma is so hard to shake. One of the reason's I dispise the media.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> No one *here* has ever defended that at all.
> 
> "Common sense" says you don't blame an entire group for the action of a few


that is correct and you will never find where I said ALL muslims were evil. I actually know quite a few, I even know a few priest that are not child molesters and I know a few pit bull dogs that don't kill children and I know a few whites that don't think their race is superior and I know a few blacks that are not thugs and a few Mexicans that are legal and a couple of Asians that cant do math and a few gun owners that don't kill people and a few gays that don't shove their lifestyle in my face. but you will be hard pressed to find anyone in todays society that is does not use a term to describe a group. people that are not looking for an excuse to dissect a persons comment to make it benefit their cause will understand. its called "COMMON SENSE"


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

painterswife said:


> This thread was not about the bad guys. It was about the people here supposedly defending the religion of Islam.


this thread was about the people that are defending "radical muslims" that in reality would cut your head off if given the chance. It was turned that I was a bigot because I had no compassion for them.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The word "supposedly" is insulting? Wow.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

M5farm said:


> this thread was *about the people that are defending "radical muslims"* that in reality would cut your head off if given the chance. It was turned that I was a bigot because I had no compassion for them.


Now you're just rewording what you really said.

If you wanted to rant about "*radical* Muslims", there was no need to accuse anyone here of "defending" them, since that's a false allegation.



> Where is the commen sense???
> I took a small hiatus from here during the ownership debacle and was encouraged buy another member to come back. since being active again I see the Muslim defenders are in full force.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

HDRider said:


> Maybe we should ask the bad guys to wear uniforms or special caps. Or maybe until the goods one do a better job of weeding out the bad ones they all get lumped together.
> 
> Maybe you have an idea how to sort the good ones from the bad ones?
> 
> Common sense tells me we fight them until they give up or are gone.


Maybe we can just deal with them all indiscriminately and hope the good ones don't decide to be bad ones.... Because that always works out in the end.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> I see your point.
> Because a few were bad, the whole lot of Pinto's were tainted.
> The media made a HUGE big deal (I remember) it was in the newspapers every day, and only the bad was in your face all the time.
> 
> ...


That would be a great analogy *if* Muslims were made in factories from the same set of blueprints.

That way you could be fairly certain a design defect would appear in all of them


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

M5farm said:


> I took a small hiatus from here during the ownership debacle and was encouraged buy another member to come back. since being active again I see the Muslim defenders are in full force. Do these people not know that if they inserted themselves into radical Muslim culture they are defending that they would be raped , beaten, forbidden to drive, and possibly killed because they are Americans. I don't see the logic!


what did I reword


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

M5farm said:


> what did I reword


You didn't say "defending radical Muslims", and the comments weren't even about Muslims. 
They were about people here who you say lack: "commen sense"

There's no point to running in these circles.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

M5farm said:


> this thread was about the people that are defending "radical muslims" that in reality would cut your head off if given the chance. It was turned that I was a bigot because I had no compassion for them.


No one here is defending radical muslims.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Not worth bothering anymore since it will probably just get deleted or the thread locked or something. Tired of typing stuff and it just goes poof for no reason. You can start a thread just to insult everyone here who makes any attempt to defend Muslims in general or attempts to bring a more nuanced opinion to the discussion and that's hunky dory here I guess. But whatever it was I quoted was verboten and my post gets deleted. I can't figure out what is okay and what isn't anymore.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I really do miss the good old days when a feller was given a fair trial, and had to be convicted of a crime before he was executed. Golly gee Wally we don't even wait for a crime to be committed any more... That's right beaver we can't wait, people could be hurt in the meantime.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Which side were you on when brown was killed by darren wilson Or how bout trevon martin. Surely you never made judgement until all the facts were established. Most of the judgement is hype because of the media sucks people in to make sure its percieved as being racist. And to stir up bleeding hearts to make sure conservatives are the reason why there is so much hatred in the world.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I had to look up darren wilson.

I was on, and still am on trevon martin's side. In light of zimmermans actions since the childs murder.....I am even more on trevon's side.

I don't know enough about the brown case in fergeson. I know the kid had run ins w/ the law......but that's all i know.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> Not worth bothering anymore since it will probably just get deleted or the thread locked or something. Tired of typing stuff and it just goes poof for no reason. You can start a thread just to insult everyone here who makes any attempt to defend Muslims in general or attempts to bring a more nuanced opinion to the discussion and that's hunky dory here I guess. But whatever it was I quoted was verboten and my post gets deleted. I can't figure out what is okay and what isn't anymore.


I'd say something here, but I'd be told the mods are handling it.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> I had to look up darren wilson.
> 
> I was on, and still am on trevon martin's side. In light of zimmermans actions since the childs murder.....I am even more on trevon's side.
> 
> I don't know enough about the brown case in fergeson. I know the kid had run ins w/ the law......but that's all i know.


From everything I heard Mr Brown was having one of those "run ins with the law" at the time of his demise.
He handled it poorly costing him his life.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

All of the discord in this area of HT is pretty simple in it's essence however is sometimes a bit complex as we work our way through the various threads in our effort to achieve balance and minimize moderation staff bias.

The factors which we must take into consideration are more than we had to consider only a year ago however I will attempt to touch on the factors of highest priority that we must consider.

First off GC and Politics boards are a paradox for a site of boards of diverse views but with the common basis of modern homesteading interests.

Originally GC/P was set up as a dump board where some board moderators chose to dump threads that the core participation of their boards argued too much over and it worked until...

Until first those discussing the topics that were either dumped here or started here as the original posters knew it would eventually land here began considering GC as their "home board" .

So began the first popularity phase of then GC. Even though it was the dump/skid row district board of the site, a number of participants felt more comfortable discussing taboo issues such as sports , religion or politics here instead of on other boards on site they felt in heavy opposition of their topic.

On the flip side, as GC grew in popularity some participants of the other boards noticed that the debate factors of their boards had dulled down, plus even on a site rooted in the topic of homesteading most all folks also like to talk about other things at times be it sports, religion, politics or whatever and those who sent the first resident demographic to GC soon followed those they drove here to pursue the type of debate they originally wanted away from their home board areas on site.

At that time moderation of GC was easy as it was still viewed as the dump/skid row/bowery district of HT and participants were advised to wear their flameproof undies when here.

As the GC demographic core group and topic base started to grow as large as some of the homesteading rooted boards some members and board moderators alike demanded that GC be cleaned up and regulated and basically cleaned up despite the fact that some of those complaining were also contributors to the messy board they wanted cleaned up.

Over a decade into the life of the site , the discord over GC and now Politics board since the attempt to separate the topic of politics to its own board was taken into consideration after suggestion by some of the members continues.

After the issues regarding the HT board group earlier this year as part of our recovery efforts we asked input from members on what they thought would be good steps to the site recovery.

Those steps included changes in moderation staff and return of some formerly site banned members who it was concluded had been improperly banned.

With the return of the absent members, the discord occurring in GC/P boards increased as members of all sorts of worldview perspectives started flame warring with each other because they saw their nemesis returned, were still steamed at having been banned or maybe they just enjoy bickering___who knows :shrug:

All that the moderators know for sure is that some dissatisfied members war openly on GC/P boards and are easily moderated, some bait other posters and are more difficult to moderate and some choose to report post claiming they have been offended but instead of letting moderators review and moderate the offending post they reported they start :fussin: on the same thread generally within minutes of or sometime before they reported the post.

Of course those who report to us they feel being offended and instead start :fussin: don't help their claim.

The best option for those of tasked with moderating this area is to lock contentious threads or move them to our thread moderation review status as we clean content, discuss if actual personal attacks occurred or reported posts were the result of creative baiting.

This is the best post site meltdown recovery compromise for GC and Politics we were able to reach agreement on.

As all compromises by definition are solutions nobody involved in is totally satisfied with, regardless of what part of the overall picture you are a part of, we are addressing the moderation of this board the best we can with in depth moderator discussion and evaluation.

As members of the board demographic represented here if everyone understands that while we do janitorial clean up of clear over site limit postings, sometimes, especially on long threads locking or placing threads in moderation review is our best approach as we moderators as the regular level members have jobs, families and real world lives outside the HT cyberspace.

The only common trait we mods try to keep paramount among us is to strive to keep our own personal biases in check . If a board mod feels their personal view on a particular issue is biased by their personal view our common practice is to recuse ourselves from the particular issue that we feel our personal view may be influencing our call and ask input from mods of other boards not as close to the issue.

Our approach may not make everyone happy or be as fast as some want but it is the most fair way to moderate so please bear with us as we continue to provide the most balanced environment for y'all to discuss your sports, religious, political or whatever topics here in GC or Politics


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Thank you


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> I'd say something here, but I'd be told the mods are handling it.


Maybe that should be our new posting style: I would say something here but ya know.....


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Thank you for posting that Shrek. One thing that occurred to me with this latest flurry of post deletions and thread lockings is that we do take up way too much of the Mods time here. I know from previous experience as a Mod on a sometimes very contentious board with some diametrically opposed members there was nothing worse than popping in for a quick check on a Saturday afternoon and finding a meltdown of biblical proportions and having to wade in and clean it up. 

I am a bit worried that there are too few Mods and too much gets dumped on your plates some days. I don't know if people go crazy reporting posts at times or what but I think all of us should keep in mind the Mods are doing this thankless job for free and we are eating time out of their lives when we have these meltdowns. I am sorry. I will try to let more go. It's not worth my life force or y'alls.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Pffut.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

where I want to said:


> Pffut.


As the drunken biker asked the priest in the confessional.... "Got any paper on your side?"


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Maybe you are reading the propaganda. No one is defending the religion. We are however fighting against bigots who convict every individual who is a Muslim because of the actions of others.
> 
> It is wrong and bigoted.


Could you show some examples of that? B/c every article that is posted here about a rad muslim committing some atrocity ends up w/non-conserves defending Islam. And telling us we're bigots. 

Then there will be 1 or 2 posters who cry & whine to the mods that THEY have been wrongly insulted. When no such thing has happened. I COULD, however, run to the mods right now & say YOU are insulting other posters. We are NOT BIGOTS. We DO NOT convict EVERY individual who is a muslim, that is a fallacy.

I think its time to report you every time you call us names. Will let it slide this time...


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> Could you show some examples of that? B/c every article that is posted here about a rad muslim committing some atrocity ends up w/non-conserves defending Islam. And telling us we're bigots.
> 
> Then there will be 1 or 2 posters who cry & whine to the mods that THEY have been wrongly insulted. When no such thing has happened. I COULD, however, run to the mods right now & say YOU are insulting other posters. We are NOT BIGOTS. We DO NOT convict EVERY individual who is a muslim, that is a fallacy.
> 
> I think its time to report you every time you call us names. Will let it slide this time...


Every Muslim is not radical. That is the simple answer. If you name yourself a bigot after that then you are privy to more information then I am. I said it is wrong and bigoted to tarnish everyone of the same religion and I stand by that.

Feel free to report all my posts that you have a problem with. I will return the favour.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

TripleD said:


> Do they stand up and voice their opinion loudly on just stay quiet about it ? Just asking because I don't know any. I do know of a family about 2 miles from me .


PW. I hate quoting myself just wondering if you missed my post ?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

TripleD said:


> PW. I hate quoting myself just wondering if you missed my post ?


I will ask this before I answer.

Are you under the impression that Muslims don't stand up and voice their opinion against things they don't believe in?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Tricky Grama said:


> Could you show some examples of that? B/c every article that is posted here about a rad muslim committing some atrocity ends up w/non-conserves defending Islam. And telling us we're bigots.
> 
> Then there will be 1 or 2 posters who cry & whine to the mods that THEY have been wrongly insulted. When no such thing has happened. I COULD, however, run to the mods right now & say YOU are insulting other posters. We are NOT BIGOTS. We DO NOT convict EVERY individual who is a muslim, that is a fallacy.
> 
> I think its time to report you every time you call us names. Will let it slide this time...


Can you please provide an example of anyone supporting radical muslims? Just one will do. 

There is a lot of hate _toward_ muslims, but I have never seen support of any type for radical muslims on this site.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

painterswife said:


> I will ask this before I answer.
> 
> Are you under the impression that Muslims don't stand up and voice their opinion against things they don't believe in?


So you didn't miss my common sense post. That's ok....


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

and any conservative that has an opinion that is not politically correct is labeled a bigot/racist. therefore the ones crying about the bigots are being bigots claiming all conservatives are bigots. the difference is most conservative don't give a plug nickel what they are accused of because they know the truth.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

trulytricia said:


> Yep. As flawed and bad as this country can be Muslims do not offer anything in any way better.





Tricky Grama said:


> Could you show some examples of that? B/c every article that is posted here about a rad muslim committing some atrocity ends up w/non-conserves defending Islam. And telling us we're bigots.
> 
> Then there will be 1 or 2 posters who cry & whine to the mods that THEY have been wrongly insulted. When no such thing has happened. I COULD, however, run to the mods right now & say YOU are insulting other posters. We are NOT BIGOTS. We DO NOT convict EVERY individual who is a muslim, that is a fallacy.
> 
> I think its time to report you every time you call us names. Will let it slide this time...


No qualifier, no nuance. Not one Muslim offers anything better. Pretty much sounds like condemning an entire religion and an entire group of people. Sounds pretty bigoted to me.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> Can you please provide an example of anyone supporting radical muslims? Just one will do.
> 
> There is a lot of hate _toward_ muslims, but I have never seen support of any type for radical muslims on this site.


some are guilty by association because they slobber at the site of Obama who just defended the radicals yesterday. and still calls ft hood workplace violence


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

M5farm said:


> some are guilty by association because they slobber at the site of Obama who just defended the radicals yesterday. and still calls ft hood workplace violence


There aren't many left of center members that defend Obama at every turn either. Can you find some examples? Please?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> There aren't many left of center members that defend Obama at every turn either. Can you find some examples? Please?


Can you find an example of those left of centers admitting something negative about Obama?
I've seen them abandon a thread before they'll admit Obama is corrupt, stupid, evil, incompetent or wrong, but I've never seen a leftist say "Obama is wrong", or "Obama did that illegally" or "Obama is obviously mentally ill and shows symptoms."


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

M5farm said:


> I don't disagree with premise we should all be tolerant of the different groups but none of the groups you have listed have publicly said they want to rid society of Our kind like the radical islamist have done. Tell me is the sheik of Iran Muslim ??? did he not say death to America ??


Post of the day award.

I think you mean the leader now, not the sheik.


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## trulytricia (Oct 11, 2002)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *trulytricia*  
_Yep. As flawed and bad as this country can be Muslims do not offer anything in any way better._



mmoetc said:


> No qualifier, no nuance. Not one Muslim offers anything better. Pretty much sounds like condemning an entire religion and an entire group of people. Sounds pretty bigoted to me.



OK. I see. This is America in 2015. I assume that you know I am not a bigot or a racist. I assume that about everyone on this forum. I assume that everyone is a nice good person in real life no matter what you believe. 

I don't think I have to say,' oh but there are some good ones' every time I criticize a group of people. I give you all credit for being smart enough to know what's what.

And no I do not like the Muslim religion. But I know for sure there are some good people caught up in that.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

M5farm said:


> Which side were you on when brown was killed by darren wilson Or how bout trevon martin. Surely you never made judgement until all the facts were established. Most of the judgement is hype because of the media sucks people in to make sure its percieved as being racist. And to stir up bleeding hearts to make sure conservatives are the reason why there is so much hatred in the world.


Good points. 

Due to the media, I was aghast that a WHITE guy-and a BIG one too-MURDERED a defenseless, charming, wonderful, black child, for no apparent reason.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

trulytricia said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trulytricia*
> _Yep. As flawed and bad as this country can be Muslims do not offer anything in any way better._
> 
> ...


I know nothing about you other than the information and views you post here. It doesn't take much extra effort to add qualifiers like some, most or a few to any statement. Any statement that doesn't contain such a qualifier and is directed at any group thus indicts the entire group. To me, that makes the statement bigoted. You may well be a nice person in real life. Some of your statements here don't reflect that.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Can you please provide an example of anyone supporting radical muslims? Just one will do.
> 
> There is a lot of hate _toward_ muslims, but I have never seen support of any type for radical muslims on this site.


Look at it this way: There's nearly every day a post about somewhere Islam doing something that is unacceptable to MOST of the rest of the world. Those who support the OP generally have a comment or maybe just a 'like' for the post. 

Then it begins. There's a 'usual group' who has to chime in with: "...not all muslims want to chop your head off..." or some such phrase. Then someone else has to say: "...where did we say ALL muslims..." and it continues. 
Someone will say they know a muslim. Great. Someone else will say the ones who migrated HERE prolly are here to get away from what was giong on w/RADICAL ones where they lived...

Maybe you could provide a post that says: "we hate muslims" b/c you just stated there's a lot of hate toward them. Just one post will do...


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

*common sense*

_n_*1. *plain ordinary good judgment; sound practical sense

_adj_*2. *inspired by or displaying sound practical sense

*Common Sense.*
Some call it 'discernment'.
Some call it 'educated guess' (based upon patterns, past behavior, etc)
Some call it 'a gift' because not everyone 'has it'.

*Common Sense* tells us a lot of things.
When the burner is glowing red, don't touch it, you will be burned.
Small children, attracted by the glow, and their natural being wants to defy their parents warning and 'learn for themselves' BURN their hands because they want to 'know' for themselves. MOST children will not repeat this exercise because the burn on the first try, was enough to stop them.
Some kids touch the burner again, and again.

That brings us to the definition of insanity; Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

*Common sense* tells you that if a human being exhibits a pattern of behavior over and over, the chances are the pattern of behavior is WHO they are.

Example; Pedophiles. The Scientific and Psychological communities believe (and have data to prove) that a Pedophile cannot be 'rehabilitate'. 
There are many arguments that they were "born this way" -vs- this is a preference and a choice.

*Common Sense* tells us that we do not employ a pedophile to look after, care for, or come in contact w/ young people. 
Based upon past behavior, and the patterns, it would be foolish to have a pedophile around young people.
*
Common Sense* tells us that if we step into a church, and the man/woman in the pulpit is "preaching" hate, division, dissention, sexual immorality, idolatry, witchcraft, jealousy, envy, drunkenness, orgies.............you need to get up and leave, at once.
*Common Sense* tells us that if the man/woman in the pulpit are 'preaching' the opposite of Scripture, that this person is NOT 'what' they claim to be (insert religion name)
*
Common Sense *also tells us: check it out.
This is the beauty of home schooling.......you teach the children to CHECK IT OUT.
Dig, investigate, find truth, find answers.
If that 'preacher' is saying ___________ get in that Bible and check it out.
Get on line and check it out.
Go to the library, check it out.
DIG and find Truth.

BUT in the mean time, do not view every person who says they are ________ (insert your religion choice) as the preacher that is spewing / acting counter to the book he claims to believe.

*Common Sense* tells you to lock your doors when you go to the mall.
You don't do this because you fear a particular type of human (race, religion,etc) is going to steal from you. 
You lock your doors because you do not want a CRIMINAL (who can be ANY race, religion etc) breaking in.

*Common Sense* also tells you not to shop in an area that has a high percentage of break ins. 
You are not prejudice, biggoted, or racist. 
You are using common sense, and making your shopping choices, based upon, common sense.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Everyone makes a valid point for the most part. BUT it can not be both ways. I myself use the term liberals being idiots. are all liberals idiots ? NO!! I know quite a few that I would give my life for but we can not see eye to eye on politics and social issues. The media and zealots are dissecting every single word that is spoken or written to paint a picture that a person is a racist or bigot because they do not "specify with a legal disclaimer" each word spoken. It is crazy therefore I go back to the OP about common sense. Most can read between the lines and know what a person means others are looking to make a fool out of someone because they can call them bigots. Where I come from the one who screams the loudest is usually guilty. 

as far as Obama supports go. those that voted for him twice after they KNEW what he was after 4 years do not get a reprieve now. they can deny they support him now but in truth they would vote for him again. Because most of them did hi because he is half black and if that aint racist I don't know what is. Ill tell you why I didn't vote for him and its because he had no experience and never has held a job. he was a race baiter and a socialist. people call him a liar and some things he is be he has never hidden his core beliefs of wanting to destroy America.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> Can you find an example of those left of centers admitting something negative about Obama?
> I've seen them abandon a thread before they'll admit Obama is corrupt, stupid, evil, incompetent or wrong, but I've never seen a leftist say "Obama is wrong", or "Obama did that illegally" or "Obama is obviously mentally ill and shows symptoms."


Please read back a few posts, the point in contention is those left of center that don't, according to M5farm, "slobber at the site of Obama who just defended the radicals yesterday." 

If I read the last few posts correctly, all those that don't name call and decry Obama at every turn are actually supporting radical muslims. I don't understand the correlation. Can someone explain, please?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Tricky Grama said:


> Could you show some examples of that? B/c every article that is posted here about a rad muslim committing some atrocity ends up w/non-conserves defending Islam. And telling us we're bigots.
> 
> Then there will be 1 or 2 posters who cry & whine to the mods that THEY have been wrongly insulted. When no such thing has happened. *I COULD, however, run to the mods* right now & say YOU are insulting other posters. We are NOT BIGOTS. We DO NOT convict EVERY individual who is a muslim, that is a fallacy.
> 
> I think its time to report you every time you call us names. Will let it slide this time...


Wouldn't it be childish to run to the mods to complain just because you don't like certain people?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Tricky Grama said:


> Look at it this way: There's nearly every day a post about somewhere Islam doing something that is unacceptable to MOST of the rest of the world. Those who support the OP generally have a comment or maybe just a 'like' for the post.
> 
> Then it begins. There's a 'usual group' who has to chime in with: "...not all muslims want to chop your head off..." or some such phrase. Then someone else has to say: "...where did we say ALL muslims..." and it continues.
> Someone will say they know a muslim. Great. Someone else will say the ones who migrated HERE prolly are here to get away from what was giong on w/RADICAL ones where they lived...
> ...


You didn't answer my question, "Can you please provide an example of anyone supporting radical muslims? Just one will do." You have turned the issue back on those left of center. I'd like proof that anyone on this site has ever supported radical muslims. Please. 

We can discuss your questions afterward. Thank you.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

TripleD said:


> PW. I hate quoting myself just wondering if you missed my post ?


I believe *you* missed the one where it was answered almost as soon as you asked:

You asked in post #16 and it was answered in post #18

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/specialty-forums/general-chat/543891-where-commen-sense.html

We just had a discussion last night about people repeating questions that had already been answered, simply because they don't bother to read what's already posted


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> Could you show some examples of that? B/c every article that is posted here about a rad muslim committing some atrocity ends up w/non-conserves defending Islam. And telling us we're bigots.
> 
> Then there will be 1 or 2 posters who cry & whine to the mods that THEY have been wrongly insulted. When no such thing has happened. I COULD, however, run to the mods right now & say YOU are insulting other posters. We are NOT BIGOTS. We DO NOT convict EVERY individual who is a muslim, that is a fallacy.
> 
> I think its time to report you every time you call us names. Will let it slide this time...


Apparently, you missed a memo. Mods are taking a hard line against indirect or direct insults and threats like yours, as well as pseudo mods who like to try and censor by way of threats of getting others banned. 

If you don't want to answer the question, don't, but don't attack other members and mods have never deleted or banned because a coalition decided to ban someone from the island. 

Any questions? Your welcome to contact me.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I believe *you* missed the one where it was answered almost as soon as you asked:
> 
> You asked in post #16 and it was answered in post #18
> 
> ...


How about reading post 21 then ??????


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

TripleD said:


> How about reading post 21 then ??????


That's just a nuance of the same question.

Do you go out every weekend and stand on a corner holding signs and protesting things you don't support?

(Neither do other normal people.)


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's just a nuance of the same question.
> 
> Do you go out every weekend and stand on a corner holding signs and protesting things you don't support?
> 
> (Neither do other normal people.)


Come on now . Did you miss that post or just to try to make me look like I don't follow up on threads I post in ?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Please read back a few posts, the point in contention is those left of center that don't, according to M5farm, "slobber at the site of Obama who just defended the radicals yesterday."
> 
> If I read the last few posts correctly, all those that don't name call and decry Obama at every turn are actually supporting radical muslims. I don't understand the correlation. Can someone explain, please?


Obama sides with the muslims every time.
If one defends Obama no matter what, guilt by association
It's like a lawyer that specializes in defending child molesters, the president of his fan club must therefore be fine with child molesting.
Does that help?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> Obama sides with the muslims every time.
> If one defends Obama no matter what, guilt by association
> It's like a lawyer that specializes in defending child molesters, the president of his fan club must therefore be fine with child molesting.
> Does that help?


No, it doesn't. I don't name call Obama because I think it's childish and petty, but that doesn't mean that I support radical muslims. 

How about this- you don't like BLM so am I to assume you support the KKK? That's what you're doing to me when you say because I don't decry Obama, I must support terrorists. 

It's not right, is it?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

TripleD said:


> Come on now . Did you miss that post or just to try to make me look like I don't follow up on threads I post in ?


No, I didn't miss it.
I just thought it was answered already when she said "No, they don't"

I don't support gun control. I've been know to write letters and make phone calls about it at times, but most days I don't even think about it at all.

It seems a little unrealistic to expect someone to know the details of their relatives political stance or "activism", when most of the time it's not a topic at all.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> No, it doesn't. I don't name call Obama because I think it's childish and petty, but that doesn't mean that I support radical muslims.
> 
> How about this- you don't like BLM so am I to assume you support the KKK? That's what you're doing to me when you say because I don't decry Obama, I must support terrorists.
> 
> It's not right, is it?


I don't like any racist or bigots, one of the many reasons I dislike Obama


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Irish Pixie, You are correct I can not name a single person that has publicly supported the radical muslims, I don't have the time to go dig thru past post to research it. The term quilty by association has been used by the left against the right for many years. like I said before a person that voted for the BHO not once but twice! they support radical islam because the elected a man that supports radical islam.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Irish Pixie said:


> No, it doesn't. I don't name call Obama because I think it's childish and petty, but that doesn't mean that I support radical muslims.
> 
> How about this- you don't like BLM so am I to assume you support the KKK? That's what you're doing to me when you say because I don't decry Obama, I must support terrorists.
> 
> It's not right, is it?





Cornhusker said:


> I don't like any racist or bigots, one of the many reasons I dislike Obama


You didn't answer my question.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

M5farm said:


> Irish Pixie, You are correct I can not name a single person that has publicly supported the radical muslims, I don't have the time to go dig thru past post to research it. The term quilty by association has been used by the left against the right for many years. like I said before a person that voted for the BHO not once but twice! they support radical islam because the elected a man that supports radical islam.


So you are saying that no member has posted support for radical muslims on this site?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

M5farm said:


> Irish Pixie, You are correct I can not name a single person that has publicly supported the radical muslims, I don't have the time to go dig thru past post to research it. The term quilty by association has been used by the left against the right for many years. like I said before a person that voted for the BHO not once but twice! they support radical islam because the elected a man that supports radical islam.


If you voted for someone that then went on and raped someone, would you therefore support rape?


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

painterswife said:


> If you voted for someone that then went on and raped someone, would you therefore support rape?


NO MA'AM, I would admit I made a mistake and ask for forgiveness and would support them being prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. 

That's what I did when I voted for bill Clinton one time. I had to own up to my mistake


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

M5farm said:


> NO MA'AM, I would admit I made a mistake and ask for forgiveness and would support them being prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
> 
> That's what I did when I voted for bill Clinton one time. I had to own up to my mistake


They why do others that may have voted for someone ( I did not vote or support Obama) automatically support everything that an individual supports when you do not face that same judgement?


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

painterswife said:


> They why do others that may have voted for someone ( I did not vote or support Obama) automatically support everything that an individual supports when you do not face that same judgement?


I think you should go back and read beginning of the thread. apparently Im a bigot and guilty by association because I am in a group of likeminded individuals that think Muslims are out to kill Christians /jews /Americans or anyone that is not muslim or muslim enough. political correctness is going to get a bunch of people killed. because it already has!!


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

M5farm said:


> Irish Pixie, You are correct I can not name a single person that has publicly supported the radical muslims, I don't have the time to go dig thru past post to research it. The term quilty by association has been used by the left against the right for many years. *like I said before a person that voted for the BHO not once but twice! they support radical islam because the elected a man that supports radical islam.*





M5farm said:


> I think you should go back and read beginning of the thread. apparently Im a bigot and guilty by association because I am in a group of likeminded individuals that think Muslims are out to kill Christians /jews /Americans or anyone that is not muslim or muslim enough. political correctness is going to get a bunch of people killed. because it already has!!


I am asking about this particular bolded sentence nothing more. You seem to say that because someone voted for someone they are guilty of supporting everything that person supports. You then go on to say that is not true of you.

How come it is true of some people but not others? Who decides?


I do think it does go to the entire premise of your thread and your original statements.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

You would be surprised at the people I argued and gave facts too in the last two elections and they are good friends but they voted that way anyhow. when they realized the mistake they denounced and continually apologize for their contribution to it. I forgave them and they actually have progressed to being fiscally conservative but socially liberal. I can live with that! But calling me a bigot and racist because I don't name the jihadist by first and last name asinine. The "really really bad people from the dessert in the middle east" associate themselves as Muslims! they apply the moniker. does the Muslim brotherhood sound familiar? I suggest we start a petition to change their name because its not fair they are associating themselves with other Muslims. Life would be so much simpler if people would quit dancing around taboo subject and just say what they mean. and the one that are offended can just get over it.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

M5farm said:


> You would be surprised at the people I argued and gave facts too in the last two elections and they are good friends but they voted that way anyhow. when they realized the mistake they denounced and continually apologize for their contribution to it. I forgave them and they actually have progressed to being fiscally conservative but socially liberal. I can live with that! But calling me a bigot and racist because I don't name the jihadist by first and last name asinine. The "really really bad people from the dessert in the middle east" associate themselves as Muslims! they apply the moniker. does the Muslim brotherhood sound familiar? I suggest we start a petition to change their name because its not fair they are associating themselves with other Muslims. Life would be so much simpler if people would quit dancing around taboo subject and just say what they mean. and the one that are offended can just get over it.


You don't seem to answering my question.

How come some people are guilty of everything the person they voted for and some are not?


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

painterswife said:


> I am asking about this particular bolded sentence nothing more. You seem to say that because someone voted for someone they are guilty of supporting everything that person supports. You then go on to say that is not true of you.
> 
> How come it is true of some people but not others? Who decides?
> 
> ...


I fully believe in forgiveness, saying nothing says you condone it. If you really believe I am a bigot and you say nothing does that make you a supporter of bigotry??? the people that don't clarify their position and denounce the man who is supporting the radicals then yes they are condoning it.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

I just a dumb ******* and type slow. 


I hope I answered your question. WE ALL ARE SUBJECT TO THE SAME RULES. anybody can do what I said I would do and its equal. Your confession earlier lets me know you do not support radical Islam , fair enough. now we still may not agree on the good muslim bad muslim debate. that's what makes us human


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

M5farm said:


> I fully believe in forgiveness, saying nothing says you condone it. If you really believe I am a bigot and you say nothing does that make you a supporter of bigotry??? the people that don't clarify their position and denounce the man who is supporting the radicals then yes they are condoning it.


So they are responsible to you to prove they don't condone it? I think I get it now.

Did you go back and read every thread and every opinion of the posters here before you posted this thread and accused some of deeds or opinions they might not hold? Are they still required to make proof of innocence to you because you did not do that and educate yourself before you posted?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

M5farm said:


> I fully believe in forgiveness, saying nothing says you condone it. If you really believe I am a bigot and you say nothing does that make you a supporter of bigotry??? the people that don't clarify their position and denounce the man who is supporting the radicals then yes they are condoning it.


I want to understand, so if I don't name call Obama I'm condoning radical muslims? Is that what you're saying?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> You didn't answer my question.


I didn't say you name call Obama, and you don't have to "name call" him to show non agreement.
I don't think it's name calling to say he's a bigot, corrupt, dishonest, etc.
I'm merely describing him as truthfully as I can.
When he does or says something I disagree with, I will state that I disagree with him.
As for comparing the KKK to BLM, they are not opposites, they are the same, so disliking one doesn't mean liking the other.
I hope that answers your question.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> I want to understand, so if I don't name call Obama I'm condoning radical muslims? Is that what you're saying?


You don't have to call him names.
How do you feel about his siding with muslims, thugs and terrorists?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> I didn't say you name call Obama, and you don't have to "name call" him to show non agreement.
> I don't think it's name calling to say he's a bigot, corrupt, dishonest, etc.
> I'm merely describing him as truthfully as I can.
> When he does or says something I disagree with, I will state that I disagree with him.
> ...


How does someone show "non agreement" with Obama in order for it to be understood that they do not support radical muslims? 

Do I have to say I "hate" Obama? I don't. He's just a politician. I don't let the way I feel about politicians run my life.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Your convictions are your convictions. Its simple as that! do you have to make a public statement ?? NO . just like you perceive I'm a bigot because I use the word Muslim in an all general term it must me true. when the same tactics are applied from me toward you then we cry foul. you see I couldn't care less if anyone thinks I'm a racist. I call it like I see it and if that offends anyone Im sorry. I had enough of people tender footing around issues. That is why we are in this mess because people were afraid of hurting some feelings.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

How about this for an alternate narrative... None of the cliche generalizations in this country define any one of us. The fact that political correctness is a problem in this country does not prove that something you said was not bigoted. The fact that someone is a bigot does not mean that what he/she is saying is inherently bigoted regardless of what they are saying. There is almost 0 chance in hell that your general views of someone are even remotely close to reality, because that just isn't the way the world works. Most of the time people are at least half wrong when they paint their picture of another person. I'm not going to dig up some crap study on the internet, it's been proven time and again. It's "common sense." What we think we know about a person, about people, about the world....is utterly false...because we are beings of limited powers. You can't read my mind. I can't read yours.

And be honest. We all know that. We've just reached the point where no one is ready to step back a little. Every single person here has fired the first shots at some point. Every single person here has tried to belittle, troll, bait, frustrate, agitate, or outright insult someone here. We're all different. There are some people here doing it more frequently than others, and most of those people have been adamant that they do no such thing...which is honestly just funny in the end.

There are some exceptions. But trust me, you're probably not one of them, reader. Especially if you post more than 10 times a week.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> How does someone show "non agreement" with Obama in order for it to be understood that they do not support radical muslims?
> 
> Do I have to say I "hate" Obama? I don't. He's just a politician. I don't let the way I feel about politicians run my life.


The only way to do it properly is to pose for a pic holding a bible in one hand an rifle in the other and a rebel flag draped over your shoulder. Then yous one of us.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

M5farm said:


> Your convictions are your convictions. Its simple as that! do you have to make a public statement ?? NO . just like you perceive I'm a bigot because I use the word Muslim in an all general term it must me true. when the same tactics are applied from me toward you then we cry foul. you see I couldn't care less if anyone thinks I'm a racist. I call it like I see it and if that offends anyone Im sorry. I had enough of people tender footing around issues. That is why we are in this mess because people were afraid of hurting some feelings.


I have never said you were a bigot. That is an assumption. I don't know you well enough.

I can see however that you don't seem to really want to answer my question.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

M5farm said:


> The only way to do it properly is to pose for a pic holding a bible in one hand an rifle in the other and a rebel flag draped over your shoulder. Then yous one of us.


That will never ever happen. I don't believe in god, definitely don't believe the bible, and I'm not a fan of the confederate flag. I do like guns tho.


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## kuriakos (Oct 7, 2005)

I don't like Islam and I don't think that makes me a bigot, and I don't think most here who are anti-Islam are bigots, but some probably are. Here's an example from another thread that sheds some light on the beliefs of the OP: Example


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

painterswife said:


> I have never said you were a bigot. That is an assumption. I don't know you well enough.
> 
> I can see however that you don't seem to really want to answer my question.



everyone is accountable the same way. 
I explained that. 

I did not think you said I was a bigot. Just as my comment could be an assumption also. I'm wrong your right or I'm right your wrong. Its all perception and convictions.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Lots of people have said "death to _________"
> That has nothing to do with the people here.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by "Our kind", since you don't seem to think some here are "your kind"


When they were celebrating in the streets all over the middle east after 9-11 that pretty much made up my mind.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

kuriakos said:


> I don't like Islam and I don't think that makes me a bigot, and I don't think most here who are anti-Islam are bigots, but some probably are. Here's an example from another thread that sheds some light on the beliefs of the OP: Example


There's alot of truth in my statement. I however can not take credit for coming up with it.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

mnn2501 said:


> When* they were celebrating* in the streets all over the middle east after 9-11 that pretty much made up my mind.


I'm pretty sure you didn't see every Muslim in the world in those streets.

There were a lot of "Americans" rioting and looting in Ferguson, MO.
Do you blame *all *Americans for that too?

I saw a big crowd from Westboro Baptist church celebrating dead soldiers.
Should I be mad at all Baptists?


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/americanattacks.htm

You might not know it from the grand pity party that vocal Muslims seem to have thrown for themselves in the years since 9/11, but only one Muslim in America was killed in a vigilante "revenge" attack following the horrific slaughter of thousands in the name of Allah. That would be Waqar Hasan, a Muslim convenience storeowner who was gunned down by Mark Anthony Stroman in Texas. Hardly an average American, Stroman was a white supremacist with a felony criminal record who went on to shoot two more people in the following weeks. However, he did claim to be motivated by anger after having watched the twin towers fall.

For anyone keeping score 


People killed by radical Muslims on 9/11: 2,996 
Muslim-Americans killed "in revenge": 1 

Thankfully, an American jury sentenced Mark Stroman to death. The same cannot be said of many Muslim terrorists such as Lockerbie bomber, Abdelbaset Al Megrahi, who not only have sanctuary in Muslim countries, but are often treated as heroes by devout followers of Muhammad.

Of course, 9/11 was neither the first nor the last time that Muslims have killed Americans on U.S. soil in terror attacks. In fact, since that day, Muslims have killed at least 66 people in 41 separate acts of terrorism in the United States (by the standards that Muslim-American groups set for hate crimes). Perhaps more importantly, there have been plenty of mass murder plots against Americans by Islamic terrorists that were thwarted by the FBI, law enforcement and overseas intelligence operations both before and after 9/11, as well as several that were simply botched, such as the attempt to blow up Times Square.

By contrast, Muslim-Americans do not appear to be in any special danger from murderous (non-Muslim) religious fanatics, even in a nation awash in firearms. Identity groups, such as CAIR, whine incessantly about relatively trivial incidents while turning a blind eye to the horrible violence that is meted out daily in the name of their religion. This distasteful petulance offers insight not only into the character of Islam, but also the America's impressive religious tolerance.

For anyone wondering about the history of deadly Islamic terror on American soil in the last 45 years, here&#8217;s what we could find:


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Tricky Grama said:


> Look at it this way: There's nearly every day a post about somewhere Islam doing something that is unacceptable to MOST of the rest of the world. Those who support the OP generally have a comment or maybe just a 'like' for the post.
> 
> Then it begins. There's a 'usual group' who has to chime in with: "...not all muslims want to chop your head off..." or some such phrase. Then someone else has to say: "...where did we say ALL muslims..." and it continues.
> Someone will say they know a muslim. Great. Someone else will say the ones who migrated HERE prolly are here to get away from what was giong on w/RADICAL ones where they lived...
> ...



Well considering the fact several here including you have claimed I hate all Christians and Jews just because I pointed out they do bad things too. When I posted 3 threads where they did horrible things and not only were they either defended or people just ignored the thread I was attacked for being a hater. 

You freely admit you guys post at least one Muslim bashing thread a day. Why? What's the point other than Muslim bashing? Half the time the stuff is utterly absurd (inbreeding thread for example) and the other half it's the same old same old. ISIS did something horrible.....OH MY GOSH I CAN NOT BELIEVE MY EYES ISIS DID SOMETHING HORRIBLE.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I'm pretty sure you didn't see every Muslim in the world in those streets.
> 
> There were a lot of "Americans" rioting and looting in Ferguson, MO.
> Do you blame *all *Americans for that too?
> ...


Yup. Exactly.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> Obama sides with the muslims every time.
> If one defends Obama no matter what, guilt by association
> It's like a lawyer that specializes in defending child molesters, the president of his fan club must therefore be fine with child molesting.
> Does that help?


That is an utter falsehood. Wean yourself off the Fox news and spend some time out here in reality with the rest of us. You might be amazed at what is really happening. 

Here's an easy example for you: how does running bombing strikes on ISIS support the radical extremist Muslims?


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> Well considering the fact several here including you have claimed I hate all Christians and Jews just because I pointed out they do bad things too. When I posted 3 threads where they did horrible things and not only were they either defended or people just ignored the thread I was attacked for being a hater.
> 
> You freely admit you guys post at least one Muslim bashing thread a day. Why? What's the point other than Muslim bashing? Half the time the stuff is utterly absurd (inbreeding thread for example) and the other half it's the same old same old. ISIS did something horrible.....OH MY GOSH I CAN NOT BELIEVE MY EYES ISIS DID SOMETHING HORRIBLE.


Why? Because Muslims are at war and busy with terrorism. If Methodists were doing the same, I expect they would be the frequent subject of postings too.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

where I want to said:


> Why? Because Muslims are at war and busy with terrorism. If Methodists were doing the same, I expect they would be the frequent subject of postings too.


And if I posted about evil Methodists every day you would get your panties in a wad and scream hater. There is just no winning here.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

*Muslim*= A follower of the religion Islam

*Radica*l= a person who holds or follows strong convictions or extreme principles; extremist. a person who advocates fundamental political, economic, and social reforms by direct and often uncompromising methods.


Maybe changing our words will help stop the tension.

A muslim is simply a person that follows islam.
A radical muslim is a person that extreme, using extreme methods.

If we are speaking of those who tow the Isis line......they would be radical muslims.

That way when we say 'muslim' we are not grouping true, faithful believers of their faith with those who twist, manipulate, and recreate for their own agenda.

Personally, I do not call myself a "christian".
I am a Believer and Follower of Jesus Christ.
But because of blasphemers like Jim Jones, Jim Baker, and the clown patrol w/ Westboro; I do NOT want to be associated with the same label they misuse (christian).

I do NOT appreciate when people find out I am a Believer that they instantly think of the above "wolves in sheeps clothing" and think "oh, she's one of them".

Cause I am NOT.

So I think, if we separate the sheep from the goats, and call the sheep sheep and call the goats, goats; that would save PAGES of arguing.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> *Muslim*= A follower of the religion Islam
> 
> *Radica*l= a person who holds or follows strong convictions or extreme principles; extremist. a person who advocates fundamental political, economic, and social reforms by direct and often uncompromising methods.
> 
> ...


I think the problem is that some of the most vocal people here don't want to change their words, and really do believe that all Muslims should be deported to the Middle East and bombed back into the stone age. No one has said that, exactly, but that's the general sense I get. And I don't mean you. I'm not even sure who all I would be referring to.

And I say that as someone who genuinely does not trust Islam as a religion. Or any religion structured around a belief in a god or higher power and a sort of superiority rooted in that belief. Despite this view, I've never drawn the term bigot from anyone here. So I think you're right. It's about what we say and how we say it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> Well considering the fact several here including you have claimed I hate all Christians and Jews just because I pointed out they do bad things too. When I posted 3 threads where they did horrible things and not only were they either defended or people just ignored the thread I was attacked for being a hater.
> 
> You freely admit you guys post at least one Muslim bashing thread a day. Why? What's the point other than Muslim bashing? Half the time the stuff is utterly absurd (inbreeding thread for example) and the other half it's the same old same old. ISIS did something horrible.....OH MY GOSH I CAN NOT BELIEVE MY EYES ISIS DID SOMETHING HORRIBLE.


ISIS has done some horrible things and they do need to be discussed. Obviously they are bad enough that people are trying to leave their own countries to get away from them. 

You can't teach anybody something about another culture by attacking their own. 

I know some wonderful people of various cultures and faiths and I've encountered some pretty vile people of various cultures and faiths but I doubt if I'm going to convince anyone that all Vietnamese people in Canada aren't gang members by pointing out that Hells Angels only recruits white men or by berating someone who feels otherwise.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

where I want to said:


> Why? Because Muslims are at war and busy with terrorism. If Methodists were doing the same, I expect they would be the frequent subject of postings too.


Certainly some are but all seems a bit of a reach.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

wr said:


> ISIS has done some horrible things and they do need to be discussed. Obviously they are bad enough that people are trying to leave their own countries to get away from them.
> 
> You can't teach anybody something about another culture by attacking their own.
> 
> I know some wonderful people of various cultures and faiths and I've encountered some pretty vile people of various cultures and faiths but I doubt if I'm going to convince anyone that all Vietnamese people in Canada aren't gang members by pointing out that Hells Angels only recruits white men or by berating someone who feels otherwise.


So how do you get people to see nuance then? If you can't use their own group as an example of having both good and bad members who do you use?


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

wr said:


> Certainly some are but all seems a bit of a reach.


Iraq would have been quite a different story if it were even half of them. Forget car bombs. If half the cars on the road were terrorists, our checkpoints would have been overwhelmed on day 1. Let's say a hundred or so cars get through. And then they all jump out and suicide rushed the soldiers with knives and cricket bats to distract the soldiers while the next 100 cars just step on the gas and rush the position with the intention of running over anything that looks American. 

Most people are just trying to live their lives and want nothing to do with that kind of insane fundamentalism. And the vets I talk to all say that same thing.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> So how do you get people to see nuance then? If you can't use their own group as an example of having both good and bad members who do you use?


IMHO you don't use anyone each is different and unique. Most understand there is good and bad in all groups. 

When the discussion is about one, saying another is equally bad does nothing in lessening the bad in the first, does that make sense?


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I'm pretty sure you didn't see every Muslim in the world in those streets.
> 
> There were a lot of "Americans" rioting and looting in Ferguson, MO.
> Do you blame *all *Americans for that too?
> ...


However when Westboro Baptist pulls their stunts, hundreds of thousands of Christians denounce them - Where are the Muslims that are denouncing the Muslim radicals?


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

mnn2501 said:


> However when Westboro Baptist pulls their stunts, hundreds of thousands of Christians denounce them - Where are the Muslims that are denouncing the Muslim radicals?


I wonder if there were large Muslim protests when a speaker in a mosque advocates violence against non Muslims, whether it would effect anything? I know it would make me feel more that all were in this together. But would it actually change the way Muslims react to those recuiting videos or others encouraging violence and revenge?

There is plenty of anti- white supremacist noise, but that doesn't keep them from collecting recruits. It doesn't take many to make out sized trouble.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

mnn2501 said:


> However when Westboro Baptist pulls their stunts, hundreds of thousands of Christians denounce them - Where are the Muslims that are denouncing the Muslim radicals?


Pages of condemnation. Pick your own link:

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...F-8#q=american muslim leaders condemn attacks


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## kuriakos (Oct 7, 2005)

M5farm said:


> There's alot of truth in my statement. I however can not take credit for coming up with it.


There is a lot of truth in the first half ("Not all Muslims are terrorist") but there is zero truth in the second half of your statement "but all the terrorist have been Muslim!!!" The word "all" locks it down to being completely false.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> And if I posted about evil Methodists every day you would get your panties in a wad and scream hater. There is just no winning here.


Next time methodist bomb something, try it and see. I doubt it will be anything but interesting.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

mnn2501 said:


> However when Westboro Baptist pulls their stunts, hundreds of thousands of Christians denounce them - Where are the Muslims that are denouncing the Muslim radicals?


I haven't heard "hundreds of thousands" saying anything about them at all.
I've seen more bikers react than any other group, and they only numbered in the hundreds, if there were even that many


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mnn2501 said:


> However when Westboro Baptist pulls their stunts, hundreds of thousands of Christians denounce them - Where are the Muslims that are denouncing the Muslim radicals?


They are there as well but that's really not the point. 

The point is that no decent Christian should have to apologize or justify their faith because of the actions of others, no decent Muslim should have to apologize or justify their faith because of the actions of others and it applies to all faiths. 

It's very difficult to prove that my friend doesn't ride a broom or sacrifice household pets and just as difficult for a Christian to prove they're a good Christian and likely just as hard for a Muslim to prove they aren't terrorists. 

The Muslims I know find it a lot easier prove by leading decent and moral lives doing the same things you and I do. Working hard, treating people decently, helping within their community and when asked questions about their faith, will answer honestly and respectfully.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

wr said:


> *The point is that no decent Christian should have to apologize or justify their faith because of the actions of others, no decent Muslim should have to apologize or justify their faith because of the actions of others and it applies to all faiths. *


BOOM.....that's right!!!


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> They are there as well but that's really not the point.
> 
> The point is that no decent Christian should have to apologize or justify their faith because of the actions of others, no decent Muslim should have to apologize or justify their faith because of the actions of others and it applies to all faiths.
> 
> ...


I want to like that 10000 times


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Cornhusker said:


> Obama sides with the muslims every time.
> If one defends Obama no matter what, guilt by association
> It's like a lawyer that specializes in defending child molesters, the president of his fan club must therefore be fine with child molesting.
> Does that help?


Well except when he bombs and kills them.

Not quite sure what child molesters has to do with anything. Don't recall anyone defending them here.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

keenataz said:


> Well except when he bombs and kills them.
> 
> Not quite sure what child molesters has to do with anything. Don't recall anyone defending them here.


It was a metaphor.



> A metaphor is a figure of speech that identifies something as being the same as some unrelated thing for rhetorical effect, thus highlighting the similarities between the two


I should have explained that in detail with the original post


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

wr said:


> Certainly some are but all seems a bit of a reach.


Nonsense. Much of terrorism internationally is Muslim in origin. Ignoring it in the name of those not so engaged will not make it go away either.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> So how do you get people to see nuance then? If you can't use their own group as an example of having both good and bad members who do you use?


Nuance is not the forte of anyone calling people racist who bring up the subject of violence done in the name of Islam either. Calling everyone who raises the issue of Islamic violence , which has happened from Thailand through Europe and to Canada, racist or a bigot is trying to suppress discussion. Never good for dialog.

As far as that, interrupting any such discussion to stop people from mentioning the obvious is futile, silly and antiproductive. It is still obvious. 

There are probably a few who see Islam as too dangerous for toleration. But most would be much more flexible if not countering the bullies who are blinded by their own assumptions of other people's motives.

Feeding the polarization because the voice that can be stomached is their only their own is wrong.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Calling everyone who raises the issue of Islamic violence , which has happened from Thailand through Europe and to Canada, racist or a bigot is trying to suppress discussion


The OP isn't about "Islamic violence"
It's about "Muslim defenders* on this site*" lacking "commen sense"



> Where is the commen sense???
> I took a small hiatus from here during the ownership debacle and was encouraged buy another member to come back. since being active again I see the Muslim defenders are in full force.


If you truly want to discuss "Islamic violence", why not just say "terrorists", and *specify *the events you want to discuss instead of saying "all Muslims everywhere want to kill you"?


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

wr said:


> They are there as well but that's really not the point.
> 
> The point is that no decent Christian should have to apologize or justify their faith because of the actions of others, no decent Muslim should have to apologize or justify their faith because of the actions of others and it applies to all faiths.
> 
> ...


So, if everyone is excused from the violence created in the name of their religion, if everyone gets a free pass from having to examine whether what support they provide the organization has a responsibility for violence, then where is the change ever going start that ends the problems? 

So the Catholic Church gets a pass from examining what attitudes and policies allowed widespread sex abuse of children? Just because much of its members did not themselves abuse children? Or does pressure from the outside force a self examination and change if it is not forth coming internally. So that they take steps to stop the problems they have allowed to fester. If one pediophile priest is removed, another one comes right along otherwise. Covered up by people who decide that it is too embarassing to the religion to talk about.
If Islam can not examine why there are so many terrorists spawned from their teachings, then how will the next terrorist have their mind changed before they blow something up? If it is not spontaneously done internally, can societal pressure encourage it? Won't know until the outsiders stop enabling the lack of self examination.
This is a common problem for all members of all groups- to take responsibility for your share of problems the group creates. Simply because you belong and can do something.

As to how you "prove" good will? You start by self examination, move on to admission of the particular problem, then take action to resolve it.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Cornhusker said:


> It was a metaphor.
> 
> 
> 
> I should have explained that in detail with the original post


We don't have them in Canada. Well maybe in Quebec


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

where I want to said:


> Nonsense. Much of terrorism internationally is Muslim in origin. Ignoring it in the name of those not so engaged will not make it go away either.


Much is quite a bit different that all and as I previously stated, I'm not sure that good and decent folks deserve to be branded as bad people, just because of their faith. 

I also have no desire to apologize or ignore terrorists and I feel that anyone who does disrespects those good and decent people they have harmed or killed but I also believe that branding decent people as terrorists is just as disrespectful.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> We don't have them in Canada. Well maybe in Quebec


They don't like cold weather and timbits


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

keenataz said:


> We don't have them in Canada. Well maybe in Quebec


I think they have mini fleurs :rotfl:


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

mmoetc said:


> No qualifier, no nuance. Not one Muslim offers anything better. Pretty much sounds like condemning an entire religion and an entire group of people. Sounds pretty bigoted to me.


You'll have to show me where in that post I said ALL muslims...'bout every time we post an atrocity we're called bigots. 

Its not like WE make up the news stories. 

If there's a member here who says ALL MUSLIMS, we'll help y'all correct them...hardly seems necessary to clarify that its not the family who lives down the street who's doing these things. Would think y'all would know that but I forget that sometimes pictures have to be drawn.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> You didn't answer my question, "Can you please provide an example of anyone supporting radical muslims? Just one will do." You have turned the issue back on those left of center. I'd like proof that anyone on this site has ever supported radical muslims. Please.
> 
> We can discuss your questions afterward. Thank you.


I cannot recall saying you support radical muslims. So, no, I won't be going looking.
Now, do you have an example of: "we hate all muslims"?


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

wr said:


> Apparently, you missed a memo. Mods are taking a hard line against indirect or direct insults and threats like yours, as well as pseudo mods who like to try and censor by way of threats of getting others banned.
> 
> If you don't want to answer the question, don't, but don't attack other members and mods have never deleted or banned because a coalition decided to ban someone from the island.
> 
> Any questions? Your welcome to contact me.


I'm sorry, wr. I do not think I made a 'threat'. I believe I've been reported many times by Painterswife. Many. And I've seen any posts that were rude, not nice, and where the poster has said: "So report me". Or words to that effect. I felt perhaps some of those non-niceities should be reported. No threat.
I'm totally UNaware of ANY coalition deciding to ban anyone. Had no idea that could be done.

And "the memo"? I'm sorry, I did not get a memo. Or was that sarcasm?


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Tricky Grama said:


> You'll have to show me where in that post I said ALL muslims...'bout every time we post an atrocity we're called bigots.
> 
> Its not like WE make up the news stories.
> 
> If there's a member here who says ALL MUSLIMS, we'll help y'all correct them...hardly seems necessary to clarify that its not the family who lives down the street who's doing these things. Would think y'all would know that but I forget that sometimes pictures have to be drawn.


The post said "Muslims". It didn't say "some Muslims", "a few Muslims", "many Muslims", "radical Muslims" or any of the other thousands of modifiers used in the English language to differentiate a part from the whole. Back in the dark ages when I learned the rules of the language not using such a modifier meant that one was automatically speaking of the entire group being named. Yankee fans are jerks has a different meaning than some Cub fans are jerks. Words can draw quite accurate pictures. The lack of certain words can also draw accurate pictures. When one says Muslims have nothing to offer to make our country better they are including that family down the street I know quite well and who do much to make our community better. Dont wish to include them? Proper use of the English language allows for that and I won't have to assume your meaning. It will be a much clearer picture for all to see.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> That is an utter falsehood. Wean yourself off the Fox news and spend some time out here in reality with the rest of us. You might be amazed at what is really happening.
> 
> Here's an easy example for you: how does running bombing strikes on ISIS support the radical extremist Muslims?


Read up some on the air strikes. I do not have the #s in front of me but the bombings by this admin is merely a 'show'. Hardly a dent. There were something like 1500/day during desert storm & not even 10/day now. 
I'll try to get the #s right.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

mmoetc said:


> The post said "Muslims". It didn't say "some Muslims", "a few Muslims", "many Muslims", "radical Muslims" or any of the other thousands of modifiers used in the English language to differentiate a part from the whole. Back in the dark ages when I learned the rules of the language not using such a modifier meant that one was automatically speaking of the entire group being named. Yankee fans are jerks has a different meaning than some Cub fans are jerks. Words can draw quite accurate pictures. The lack of certain words can also draw accurate pictures. When one says Muslims have nothing to offer to make our country better they are including that family down the street I know quite well and who do much to make our community better. Dont wish to include them? Proper use of the English language allows for that and I won't have to assume your meaning. It will be a much clearer picture for all to see.


One of the problems and, why radical Islam has spread so far so fast, is that Muslims, moderate or not, seem to stand off to one side, saying it is not their problem. There a a few speechs about how wrong it is to blow up children but that is as far as it goes. Only when the sting of violence stopped being directed at non Muslims only was action started.
Muslims are in the best position to put at least some check on the violence BEFORE it starts. But that seems far from a goal as far as can be seen.
I know you will say that it is not their problem. And that makes it clear that it will be left to outsiders to resolve. And that will finally make true the claims of Islamaphobia. 
Why wouldn't it be better to short circuit that ugliness, which already exist but has plenty of room for expansion? 
So go ahead and repeat your personal insults about the bigotry you insist I have. But my expectations are not different for Muslims than for any group. The only difference is at the moment Islam is engaged in violence at a high level. 
If Christians are, such as during the Balkan Wars, then action would be demanded- as it was. As was the pressure on the Catholic Church about child abuse or the various extreme fundamentalists of various Christan sects. They all suffer pressure from other Christians and from non Christians alike to initiate change.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> And if I posted about evil Methodists every day you would get your panties in a wad and scream hater. There is just no winning here.


How is this even remotely the same? I mean, IF there were evil Methodists in the NEWS every day, then by all means post!! But, sadly for your non-analogy, there are not. 

Do you see that news is generally posted? Does anyone see that Islam has been a contention in the world for centuries? Look around the world, europe now too, its sure isn't methodists causing strife. Anyone know the words to "Battle Hymn of the Republic"? Anyone know why Marines are called "leathernecks"? Jefferson had words about dealing w/Islam.

For those who like to mention WBC, may I remind you that WBC is literally a handful of idiots, maybe a dozen. Its laughable to equate them w/any strife or murderous world activity. Yet, they are mentioned somehow to compare that they are to Christians what millions of muslims are to Islam.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

wiscto said:


> I think the problem is that some of the most vocal people here don't want to change their words, and really do believe that all Muslims should be deported to the Middle East and bombed back into the stone age. No one has said that, exactly, but that's the general sense I get. And I don't mean you. I'm not even sure who all I would be referring to.
> 
> And I say that as someone who genuinely does not trust Islam as a religion. Or any religion structured around a belief in a god or higher power and a sort of superiority rooted in that belief. Despite this view, I've never drawn the term bigot from anyone here. So I think you're right. It's about what we say and how we say it.


I'm sad to see you think there are folks here who would do that. Really sad.
Maybe do a poll? see who DOES think that? 
I've said b/4 we should be monitoring mosques, esp the ones who've spawned radials. Even had some here say that would be against their 'rights'. I'd be all for deporting any who preached violence against the USA.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

where I want to said:


> One of the problems and, why radical Islam has spread so far so fast, is that Muslims, moderate or not, seem to stand off to one side, saying it is not their problem. There a a few speechs about how wrong it is to blow up children but that is as far as it goes. Only when the sting of violence stopped being directed at non Muslims only was action started.
> Muslims are in the best position to put at least some check on the violence BEFORE it starts. But that seems far from a goal as far as can be seen.
> I know you will say that it is not their problem. And that makes it clear that it will be left to outsiders to resolve. And that will finally make true the claims of Islamaphobia.
> Why wouldn't it be better to short circuit that ugliness, which already exist but has plenty of room for expansion?
> ...


Who do you think is fighting against groups like ISIS if it isn't other Muslims? Who exactly fought to protect people like the Yahzidis if it wasn't their Muslim neighbors? I know from the Muslims I talk to almost every day that they work hard within their community to do exactly what you ask. They try to teach their kids that such violence and intolerance as promulgated by the most extreme of their religion is wrong. It's taught at home and in their Mosques. They know it's their problem and many work hard to try to solve it. I'll likely never get you to recognize these people or hear their voices but it wont stop me from trying. Telling people who are tolerant and trying their best to live in harmony with others that they have nothing good to offer and the only solution is to end their belief system is hardly the way to win friends. In fact, it sounds a lot like what the radicals have been saying about the west.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

where I want to said:


> So, if everyone is excused from the violence created in the name of their religion, if everyone gets a free pass from having to examine whether what support they provide the organization has a responsibility for violence, then where is the change ever going start that ends the problems?
> 
> So the Catholic Church gets a pass from examining what attitudes and policies allowed widespread sex abuse of children? Just because much of its members did not themselves abuse children? Or does pressure from the outside force a self examination and change if it is not forth coming internally. So that they take steps to stop the problems they have allowed to fester. If one pediophile priest is removed, another one comes right along otherwise. Covered up by people who decide that it is too embarassing to the religion to talk about.
> If Islam can not examine why there are so many terrorists spawned from their teachings, then how will the next terrorist have their mind changed before they blow something up? If it is not spontaneously done internally, can societal pressure encourage it? Won't know until the outsiders stop enabling the lack of self examination.
> ...


Post of the day award.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*Iraqi Christian refugees turned away by USA*

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/iraqi.christian.refugees.turned.away.by.usa/66319.htm
 Florence Taylor  Junior Staff Writer 01 October 2015

*Obama Throws Christian Refugees to Lions*

Raymond Ibrahim | Monday Sep 28, 2015 12:20 PM


_Originally published by the __Gatestone Institute_
The fate of those Iraqi Christians who had fled from the Islamic State only to be incarcerated in the United States has finally been decided by the Obama administration: they are to be thrown back to the lions, where they will likely be persecuted if not slaughtered like so many Iraqi Christians before them. 

_http://humanevents.com/2015/09/28/obama-throws-christian-refugees-to-lions/

_
*For Christians and Yazidis Fleeing Genocide, the Obama Administration Has No Room at the Inn*

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...zidis-persecuted-iraq-syria-refugees-excluded

Why does the USA accept Syrian Muslim refugees but turn the Christians away?


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> You didn't answer my question, "Can you please provide an example of anyone supporting radical muslims? Just one will do." I'd like proof that anyone on this site has ever supported radical muslims. Please.


Everyone defending it on this very thread - heres the opening post I have bolded and underlined the words to show you.



M5farm said:


> I took a small hiatus from here during the ownership debacle and was encouraged buy another member to come back. since being active again I see the Muslim defenders are in full force. Do these people not know that if they inserted themselves into *radical Muslim culture they are defending* that they would be raped , beaten, forbidden to drive, and possibly killed because they are Americans. I don't see the logic!


Anyone arguing here either did not read the opening post or they are arguing against a point that was *NOT *made.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Tricky Grama said:


> You'll have to show me where in that post I said ALL muslims...'bout every time we post an atrocity we're called bigots.
> 
> Its not like WE make up the news stories.
> 
> If there's a member here who says ALL MUSLIMS, we'll help y'all correct them...hardly seems necessary to clarify that its not the family who lives down the street who's doing these things. Would think y'all would know that but I forget that sometimes pictures have to be drawn.


Some people, even here on HT, look for things to be offended by.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Irish Pixie View Post
> You didn't answer my question, "Can you *please provide an example of anyone supporting radical muslims?* Just one will do." I'd like proof that anyone on this site has ever supported radical muslims. Please.





mnn2501 said:


> Everyone defending it on this very thread - heres the opening post I have bolded and underlined the words to show you.
> 
> Originally Posted by M5farm View Post
> I took a small hiatus from here during the ownership debacle and was encouraged buy another member to come back. since being active again I see the Muslim defenders are in full force. Do these people not know that if they inserted themselves into *radical Muslim culture they are defending* that they would be raped , beaten, forbidden to drive, and possibly killed because they are Americans. I don't see the logic!
> ...


Can you explain to me how *repeating an accusation* is evidence that someone else actually "defended radical Muslims"

The sole purpose of the thread (as indicated by the title) is to suggest that anyone who doesn't agree with the OP has no "commen sense".

It's not *about* "radical Muslims" at all.


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## trulytricia (Oct 11, 2002)

Well one common sense idea that's come to me. Many non violent Muslims are terrified to speak out against the evil doing muslims. It might cost them their head or the rape of their children.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

mmoetc said:


> Who do you think is fighting against groups like ISIS if it isn't other Muslims? Who exactly fought to protect people like the Yahzidis if it wasn't their Muslim neighbors? I know from the Muslims I talk to almost every day that they work hard within their community to do exactly what you ask. They try to teach their kids that such violence and intolerance as promulgated by the most extreme of their religion is wrong. It's taught at home and in their Mosques. They know it's their problem and many work hard to try to solve it. I'll likely never get you to recognize these people or hear their voices but it wont stop me from trying. Telling people who are tolerant and trying their best to live in harmony with others that they have nothing good to offer and the only solution is to end their belief system is hardly the way to win friends. In fact, it sounds a lot like what the radicals have been saying about the west.


It is impossible to know if what you say is true or not if the society is so closed that silence is the only thing heard. One if the big differences is what happens to those on the inside that make public issue. It seems someone will declare they have insulted the religion, and something bad happens to them. 
And it just reenforces the need for silence.
As you can tell from thus forum, a good share of the posters insult away at the majority religion with impunity. They can say the most outrageous things directly to people they know will take offense and as far as I know, despite the complaint that someone suppressed their speech, they keep right at it without people threatening their lives. And even when people do expresses disagreements loudly, it is almost inevitably prefaced with the word "you have the right to say what you want but." 

But if there is no such public participation by Muslims, then it simply could be they silently agree with the ideas of the radicals. It is not knowable by either potential radicals or outsiders. And maybe even to themselves.

As for fighting the radicals in the Middle East, that was not on the behalf of non Muslims. It seems anyone who rendered horrendous violence on non Muslim only could always find safety in a Muslim country as if they were heros rather than barbarians. Those actions speak pretty loudly. And leave impressions hard to overcome by simply saying not everyone thinks that way. 

One of the real problems on this forum is the idea it is just fine to bash away on Christians but it is sheer bigotry to even hint of a problem in Islam. So no discussion of Islam ever gets real or useful.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

We who are Christians will not proselytize because it is against the rules at HT.
Most of us would not even try to do that even if we could.
However we can stand up for Christians including Catholics because they are Christians too if we feel that they are right or if they are persecuted. Same with Greeks, Hindu,etc.
I really feel like Greeks are Christians too. Most Greeks are Christians, Greek Orthodox (about 98% of the population). But yes, there are also a few people who worship the ancient gods ... 

Historically in the Koine Greek Septuagint and New Testament, the word proselyte denoted a gentile who was considering conversion to Judaism.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

gapeach said:


> We who are Christians will not proselytize because it is against the rules at HT.
> Most of us would not even try to do that even if we could.
> However we can stand up for Christians including Catholics because they are Christians too if we feel that they are right or if they are persecuted. Same with Greeks, Hindu,etc.
> I really feel like Greeks are Christians too. Most Greeks are Christians, Greek Orthodox (about 98% of the population). But yes, there are also a few people who worship the ancient gods ...
> ...


I stand up for any person of religion who I feel is being persecuted.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Can you explain to me how *repeating an accusation* is evidence that someone else actually "defended radical Muslims"
> 
> The sole purpose of the thread (as indicated by the title) is to suggest that anyone who doesn't agree with the OP has no "commen sense".
> 
> It's not *about* "radical Muslims" at all.


That was the purpose of this thread, so why is anyone posting about non-radicals?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

mnn2501 said:


> That was the purpose of this thread, so why is anyone posting about non-radicals?


Because the accusation and the OP was *about* "Muslim defenders lack 'commen' sense", and no one has defended them.

It was never "*about* radical Muslims".

That was the fall-back position, since if it were* about* "radical Muslims", the so called "defenders" wouldn't need mentioning.


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