# Islams role in the end times



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

[YOUTUBE] [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onvOCmse_KE[/ame] [/YOUTUBE]


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Don't have 1 hr and 16 minutes to sit through this.

City Bound, Why don't you recap??


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

For those who believe the Bible (I do), the connection to Islam is clear. Every nation mentioned by name in the OT prophecies as being against Israel or that God punishes in the end times is Islamic today. The Muslim mahdi in the Koran is the mirror image of the Biblical anti Christ. Islam has the same symbols, crescent and star, used by false religions in that area going back to Nimrod. Islam worships a god of war. Islam worships a black stone meteorite which Christ said explicitly not to do. Christ said Turkey is the seat of satan. There's much more and it is too much to be a matter of chance.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Yea. I guess the rest of us just have to deal with the self fulfilled prophecy of the religious, ha? Only problem I see is, when Jesus doesn't come down to stop the fighting and end the war, y'all will just keep on blindly fighting until everyone is dead, and I'm guessing it'll probably get to the point where you force the rest of us to take your side or we get the dubious honor of being considered one of "them."


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## Oldfarmer (Jan 11, 2013)

wisco.. the "near" empty can rattles the loudest. 
Jesus said that the end is in God's hands.. there will be all sorts of evil and evil times, but the "end" is in His hands. Live for today, there is enough evil to contend with today to waste too much time promoting fear of the evil that may be tomorrow. Trying to predict "when" is an exercise in futility, though I am just as liable to that as anyone. Take the time today to do what you can for good, plant an apple tree. Seed time and harvest will continue till He comes.
OK, Done Rattlin"


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Okay... And back to my point, when this "end times" thing happens, it will be because the believers make it happen......in my opinion. There won't be a Jesus. There won't be a heaven. There won't be a hell. There will just be a bunch of broken human beings insisting that all the murdering and destroying they are doing is justified.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

wiscto said:


> Yea. I guess the rest of us just have to deal with the self fulfilled prophecy of the religious, ha? Only problem I see is, when Jesus doesn't come down to stop the fighting and end the war, y'all will just keep on blindly fighting until everyone is dead, and I'm guessing it'll probably get to the point where you force the rest of us to take your side or we get the dubious honor of being considered one of "them."


The rest of you can deal with it however you choose. You'll notice I referred only to those who believe the Bible but you felt the need to respond. Could you explain how Christians self fulfill prophecy? Let's take the prophecy about Jews being brought back to their own land in the end times. Did Christians cause that to happen? No, it was caused by one of the most evil men in modern history, Adolph Hitler. Had it not been for the holocaust, the Jews wouldn't be in their own land.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

I thought the Antichrist was supposed to be Hitler reincarnated?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

poppy said:


> For those who believe the Bible (I do), the connection to Islam is clear. Every nation mentioned by name in the OT prophecies as being against Israel or that God punishes in the end times is Islamic today. The Muslim mahdi in the Koran is the mirror image of the Biblical anti Christ. Islam has the same symbols, crescent and star, used by false religions in that area going back to Nimrod. Islam worships a god of war. Islam worships a black stone meteorite which Christ said explicitly not to do. Christ said Turkey is the seat of satan. There's much more and it is too much to be a matter of chance.


Funny when I was a kid every single Bible prophecy pointed to Rome, the Pope and the Catholic church. I guess they are probably glad to be getting a pass these days. 

Well looks like Mr. Shoebat thinks that himself.

http://shoebat.com/2015/05/13/the-p...estine-showing-the-jesus-really-isnt-his-god/


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

poppy said:


> The rest of you can deal with it however you choose. You'll notice I referred only to those who believe the Bible but you felt the need to respond. Could you explain how Christians self fulfill prophecy? Let's take the prophecy about Jews being brought back to their own land in the end times. Did Christians cause that to happen? No, it was caused by one of the most evil men in modern history, Adolph Hitler. Had it not been for the holocaust, the Jews wouldn't be in their own land.


Look I'm not really directly confronting anyone here. People bring this stuff up, and I consider it a direct threat to my safety and the safety those I care about that people believe in this. And to be really honest, I find it kind of frustrating that you think I was only referring to Christians. All three of those religions believe in it, all three of those religions have been perpetuating the conflict that frankly could end the world.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

yeah it all can be just self fulfilled prophecy. 

jesus does not come as peace maker in his second coming, he comes as a fierce warrior. guess we will just have to live long enough to see what happens. 

the jews and the Arabic muslims are relatives. The arab muslims decend from Hagar who was cast with her son Ishmael into the desert by sarah the wife of Abraham. Ishmael was the son of Abraham and hagar. Hagar was ether Abraham's second wife or she was his servant.

Mohammad descended from Ishmael, son of hagar, bastard child of Abraham.
The decedents of sarah and hagar would be forever enemies. 

An Islamic belief is that their messiah (who many consider the antichrist) will not come to earth until every jew is dead. 

Another interesting thing is that the end times are said not to come until the jews return back to isreal after being scattered across the earth as a punishment from god for breaking the covenant.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

wiscto said:


> Okay... And back to my point, when this "end times" thing happens, it will be because the believers make it happen......in my opinion. There won't be a Jesus. There won't be a heaven. There won't be a hell. There will just be a bunch of broken human beings insisting that all the murdering and destroying they are doing is justified.


 very well could be. Consider it a form of man made validation of their beliefs. Ether you give up your beliefs or you confirm them. 

I feel that this is the problem with the radical muslims, they have gone so far out on a limb with their faith that they have no alternative routes. disillusionment from fanaticism can leave you with empty and lost. You put all your eggs in one basket and that basket is all you have to live for. 

no options, no alternatives.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

wiscto said:


> Look I'm not really directly confronting anyone here. People bring this stuff up, and I consider it a direct threat to my safety and the safety those I care about that people believe in this. And to be really honest, I find it kind of frustrating that you think I was only referring to Christians. All three of those religions believe in it, all three of those religions have been perpetuating the conflict that frankly could end the world.


you are absolutely right. Me personally, I feel it could be self fulfilling or real.

You are right, Judaism, Christianity, and islam have been causing conflict an friction for centuries.

They are all waiting for their messiah: the jews, the Christians, and the muslims.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

City Bound said:


> yeah it all can be just self fulfilled prophecy.
> 
> jesus does not come as peace maker in his second coming, he comes as a fierce warrior. guess we will just have to live long enough to see what happens.
> 
> .


Yea that's kind of my point. Every side has their version of the Messiah, and that's one of the things they like to argue about. Kind of ironic really.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> Funny when I was a kid every single Bible prophecy pointed to Rome, the Pope and the Catholic church. I guess they are probably glad to be getting a pass these days.
> 
> Well looks like Mr. Shoebat thinks that himself.
> 
> http://shoebat.com/2015/05/13/the-p...estine-showing-the-jesus-really-isnt-his-god/


Actually, Islam was was the focus of most early church teachers. Islam fell out of favor in 1924 when the Ottoman Empire was defeated and broken up and preachers switched their focus to Rome because they felt Islam was dead and the Roman empire had destroyed Jerusalem once. However, it wasn't Romans who did it. It was Arabs who were part of the Roman Empire. Those preachers must have forgot the prophecy that one of the empires (heads) would suffer a deadly wound by the sword but that it would live and rise again. It is the Ottoman empire rising again now.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

wiscto said:


> Okay... And back to my point, when this "end times" thing happens, it will be because the believers make it happen......in my opinion. There won't be a Jesus. There won't be a heaven. There won't be a hell. There will just be a bunch of broken human beings insisting that all the murdering and destroying they are doing is justified.



No.. the Believers have nothing to do with when it happens. However, the true believers will still have a smile on their faces...

I will not be doing any "murdering" - I will be a protector until the end.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> I thought the Antichrist was supposed to be Hitler reincarnated?


You did not watch the video [which I am only half way through the first one] but, the anti-christ will come from Ishmal's side of the family as spoken of in the Old Testament. And supports those that live within the Old Testament like the Fundamental Israelites and the Arabs.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

City Bound said:


> very well could be. Consider it a form of man made validation of their beliefs. Ether you give up your beliefs or you confirm them.
> 
> I feel that this is the problem with the radical muslims, they have gone so far out on a limb with their faith that they have no alternative routes. disillusionment from fanaticism can leave you with empty and lost. You put all your eggs in one basket and that basket is all you have to live for.
> 
> no options, no alternatives.


There are instances of Muslims that have renounced terrorism after being steeped in it since childhood. As long as we're tied to the Saudis, evil will flourish.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Right. That is what walid says also. He says the ottoman empire will rise again. When he talks of rome he is not referring to the western roman empire but the eastern empire which is turkey and other area east of Italy. He says that when the ottoman empire rises again its capital will be in turkey.

Mohammad descended from Ishmael's line. Is Mohammad the false prophet of the book of revelations? Most likely. 

Funny thing about radical muslims who kill themselves and others for the sake of islam is that many do so to become mrtyres and to receive concubines and earthly pleasures in paradise. So, they offer to kill innocent people, create chaos, and spread violence and oppression all over the world for what? Fame and lust. Sounds like the rewards Satan offers his minions for doing his will.

Satan seeks to defile mankind.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

As the seals open one by one, events and information will come into light.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The real distaste of "Freedom of Religion" on display. 

If you don't believe why can't you simply remain silent and let believers discuss this subject without your BS?

That said, I am sure most believers would be happy to answer questions or discuss the subject absent your attack.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

HDRider said:


> The real distaste of "Freedom of Religion" on display.
> 
> If you don't believe why can't you simply remain silent and let believers discuss this subject without your BS?
> 
> That said, I am sure most believers would be happy to answer questions or discuss the subject absent your attack.


 Who are you talking to?


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

HDRider said:


> The real distaste of "Freedom of Religion" on display.
> 
> If you don't believe why can't you simply remain silent and let believers discuss this subject without your BS?
> 
> That said, I am sure most believers would be happy to answer questions or discuss the subject absent your attack.


The point was that whatever Christians, Muslims and Jews do affects the rest of us too. If you want to let your little "end of times" scenario play out just because "it is written" or "this is God's plan" that could have disastrous affects on the world and everyone in it.

There are things we can do to fix the problem and education of women is the top priority in my opinion. These three religions are Patriarchal in nature and if we advanced women's rights and education to the point that they had equal influence on the world in general things would be very different.

Christianity says women must be subject to men but it pales in comparison to the horrors perpetuated on women in Islam. If Muslim women were educated and empowered do you think they would put up with that nonsense? For every victim of a religious based terrorist attack the world collectively should build five schools somewhere that needs them. If they get blown up, rebuild them again as quickly as possible. A great number of Muslim countries have extremely poor standards of living and low education levels so it's not rocket science to see those people radicalizing to something they think will give them a better life (well, the men anyway).

The point is, you can't just let things unfold because it is playing out some sort of ancient prediction. Sometimes things can become self fulfilling if we let them. Stand up and make changes. It's possible to change the course of the future if we really want to.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

wiscto said:


> Okay... And back to my point, when this "end times" thing happens, it will be because the believers make it happen......in my opinion. There won't be a Jesus. There won't be a heaven. There won't be a hell. There will just be a bunch of broken human beings insisting that all the murdering and destroying they are doing is justified.


I think you'll yet see lots happen that we are incapable of "making happen". As far as Jesus goes... I guess you'll know sooner or later.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Patchouli said:


> I thought the Antichrist was supposed to be Hitler reincarnated?


I've never heard that one. I surely don't think so, personally. The only significant similarity would be the ultimate alignment of both individuals...but I'd call Hitler small potatoes next to the real deal. 

I think the world's population would have a hard time getting behind Hitler, reincarnated or not. The person of antchrist will be quite likable to the vast majority.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

wiscto said:


> Look I'm not really directly confronting anyone here. People bring this stuff up, and *I consider it a direct threat to my safety and the safety those I care about that people believe in this. * And to be really honest, I find it kind of frustrating that you think I was only referring to Christians. All three of those religions believe in it, all three of those religions have been perpetuating the conflict that frankly could end the world.


The government agrees with you and has for some time now. Incidentally...that was also prophesied.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

HDRider said:


> The real distaste of "Freedom of Religion" on display.
> 
> If you don't believe why can't you simply remain silent and let believers discuss this subject without your BS?
> 
> That said, I am sure most believers would be happy to answer questions or discuss the subject absent your attack.


Hahahahahahaha. The real distaste of "Freedom of Speech" on display. Why can't you just accept that when you talk about something in a public forum, people will express opinions even though it rankles you and you would rather they just be silent. Cry me a freakin' river, dude. You can call it an attack, but my post reads and sounds a lot like the ones y'all like to write about liberals and (any subject here). Hypocrisy is a nasty trait. 

And by the way. If y'all claim atheism is a religion now days (even though it is marked by an absence OF religion), then I guess agnosticism is a religion, and I guess I'm just expressing my freedom of religion. Why you can't you remain silent so I can discuss my concerns with other believers without your BS?


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Woolieface said:


> I think you'll yet see lots happen that we are incapable of "making happen". As far as Jesus goes... I guess you'll know sooner or later.


But you're one person. I'm not saying everyone here, or even all believers, will bring about the end times. Just like I don't believe all Christians are Westboro Baptist. But doesn't it concern you, even a little bit, that some of the more violent believers seem to actually want the end times to come? I mean at this point, do we really need anyone's permission to end the world? What if we can avoid it by convincing Muslims, Jews, and Christians to go 100% pacifist. No war in the Middle East means the timeline changes, doesn't it? If they're at peace, it would pretty much _require_ the actions of an Anti-Christ figure to trigger it. Right now, some Abdullah's grandmother could trigger an apocalyptic war on accident and we'd never know.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

City Bound said:


> Another interesting thing is that the end times are said not to come until the jews return back to isreal after being scattered across the earth as a punishment from god for breaking the covenant.


 Guess we don't have to worry about that then. Ever been to New York city?? I don't think those Jews are leaving anytime soon.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Maybe we can all pool our resources and buy an island somewhere, then all those who want to fight over whose god is bigger can go there and leave the rest of us alone. All those extremists can have a ball crushing each others skulls over whether Zeus, Odin, Allah, Yaweh or the Flying Spaghetti Monster is top dog.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

wiscto said:


> But you're one person. I'm not saying everyone here, or even all believers, will bring about the end times. Just like I don't believe all Christians are Westboro Baptist. But doesn't it concern you, even a little bit, that some of the more violent believers seem to actually want the end times to come? I mean at this point, do we really need anyone's permission to end the world? What if we can avoid it by convincing Muslims, Jews, and Christians to go 100% pacifist. No war in the Middle East means the timeline changes, doesn't it? If they're at peace, it would pretty much _require_ the actions of an Anti-Christ figure to trigger it. Right now, some Abdullah's grandmother could trigger an apocalyptic war on accident and we'd never know.


I'm not speaking of the "wars and rumors of wars"...those things actually precede anything we technically call "the end times", as Jesus stated that when these are going on "the end is not yet". The end times is actually marked by the advent of a false world peace.

There will be astronomical signs, unprecedented earthquakes, "signs and wonders" of the enemy that create such an effect on people of earth as to sway them to believe that the power of antichrist is the power of God. Those things, it can safely be said, are quite beyond us to bring into being.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Woolieface said:


> I'm not speaking of the "wars and rumors of wars"...those things actually precede anything we technically call "the end times", as Jesus stated that when these are going on "the end is not yet". The end times is actually marked by the advent of a false world peace.
> 
> There will be astronomical signs, unprecedented earthquakes, "signs and wonders" of the enemy that create such an effect on people of earth as to sway them to believe that the power of antichrist is the power of God. Those things, it can safely be said, are quite beyond us to bring into being.


Fair enough. We didn't look at this very often when I was a kid, wasn't a priority of the Catholic Church, I don't think. I don't even know waht the astronomical signs are. Only thing I know of are some vague statements regarding fire in the sky.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

wiscto said:


> Fair enough. We didn't look at this very often when I was a kid, wasn't a priority of the Catholic Church, I don't think. I don't even know waht the astronomical signs are. Only thing I know of are some vague statements regarding fire in the sky.


Here are two places that talk about the celestial signs...

_Luke 21:25-26 ...'And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and looking after those things which are coming on the earth; for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.'

Joel 2:31 ...'The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come.'_


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Woolieface said:


> I've never heard that one. I surely don't think so, personally. The only significant similarity would be the ultimate alignment of both individuals...but I'd call Hitler small potatoes next to the real deal.
> 
> I think the world's population would have a hard time getting behind Hitler, reincarnated or not. The person of antchrist will be quite likable to the vast majority.


Well you know if you took his mustache off would you actually recognise him?  

I can't remember the name of the book the theory came from, it was a really popular end times book in the early 90s. I will ask my husband, he will probably remember it. Anyhoo the guy had a really brilliant theory on the Antichrist being Hitler brought back to life and he nailed every scriptural reference perfectly. It was pretty fascinating.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

greg273 said:


> Maybe we can all pool our resources and buy an island somewhere, then all those who want to fight over whose god is bigger can go there and leave the rest of us alone. All those extremists can have a ball crushing each others skulls over whether Zeus, Odin, Allah, Yaweh or the Flying Spaghetti Monster is top dog.


Oh please it's Cthulhu obviously!


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Patchouli said:


> Well you know if you took his mustache off would you actually recognise him?
> 
> I can't remember the name of the book the theory came from, it was a really popular end times book in the early 90s. I will ask my husband, he will probably remember it. Anyhoo the guy had a really brilliant theory on the Antichrist being Hitler brought back to life and he nailed every scriptural reference perfectly. It was pretty fascinating.


Even if we didn't recognize him, Hitler didn't exactly have what we might call global appeal, nor did his philosophy... but I think the antichrist will actually come off as awe inspiring to most.

I also think Hitler wasn't the ultimate mastermind behind his own plan....just the guy to be the face of that agenda. Not unlike some presidents we know...


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

wiscto said:


> Fair enough. We didn't look at this very often when I was a kid, wasn't a priority of the Catholic Church, I don't think. I don't even know waht the astronomical signs are. Only thing I know of are some vague statements regarding fire in the sky.


These days it's a much bigger thing amongst Evangelical Protestants. Eschatology (end times studies) is a hot topic that sells a lot of books and videos. Some people have whole ministries built around it. 

I am kind of curious though beyond supporting Israel when it doesn't always deserve the support what do you see as any real downside to this Apocalyptic beliefs? Off the top of my head I can't come up with any real way it could affect politics in general. 

Honestly there are some ways that End Times fears coincide with liberal concerns when it comes to spying and tracking us. You might hate the NSA's insane data collecting for invasion of privacy reasons and a Christian might hate it for collecting info that will be used by the Antichrist to round up Christians down the road. Either way you will both vote against any expansion of the NSA. I have never known Christians to just look at it as inevitable and not try to fight it.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Woolieface said:


> Even if we didn't recognize him, Hitler didn't exactly have what we might call global appeal, nor did his philosophy... but I think the antichrist will actually come off as awe inspiring to most.
> 
> I also think Hitler wasn't the ultimate mastermind behind his own plan....just the guy to be the face of that agenda. Not unlike some presidents we know...


I have always felt that Douglas Adams nailed what our President's purpose is with his depiction of Zaphod Beeblebrox. 

"He was briefly the President of the Galaxy (a role that involves no power whatsoever, and merely requires the incumbent to attract attention so no one wonders who's _really_ in charge, a role for which Zaphod was perfectly suited)."


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

City Bound said:


> Who are you talking to?


Himself?


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Patchouli said:


> I have always felt that Douglas Adams nailed what our President's purpose is with his depiction of Zaphod Beeblebrox.
> 
> "He was briefly the President of the Galaxy (a role that involves no power whatsoever, and merely requires the incumbent to attract attention so no one wonders who's _really_ in charge, a role for which Zaphod was perfectly suited)."


Yeah...what I always say is, if you think Obama is a rotten son of a weasel (and, in my opinion he is).... you should meet the guys he takes orders from.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Woolieface said:


> Here are two places that talk about the celestial signs...
> 
> _Luke 21:25-26 ...'And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and looking after those things which are coming on the earth; for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.'
> '_


 Can you name one time in history all that stuff isn't occuring on a daily basis?? Sounds like business as usuall in this world full of greedy, evil hearts.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

greg273 said:


> Can you name one time in history all that stuff isn't occuring on a daily basis?? Sounds like business as usuall in this world full of greedy, evil hearts.


What part of it? distress in the Earth? I doubt you mean "signs" in the heavens. What would you even identify as a "sign" in heaven and what would it signify?
The sun darkening and the moon turning blood red should be fairly obvious signs.

Distressing things may be happening every day in the world but this distress described here is global and does not relate to the stresses of war or societal issues...it's literally the heavens and earth being shaken....people dropping dead from fright. This time it's not simply humans being greedy and evil...it's creation in upheaval to it's very core.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Patchouli said:


> These days it's a much bigger thing amongst Evangelical Protestants. Eschatology (end times studies) is a hot topic that sells a lot of books and videos. Some people have whole ministries built around it.
> 
> I am kind of curious though beyond supporting Israel when it doesn't always deserve the support what do you see as any real downside to this Apocalyptic beliefs? Off the top of my head I can't come up with any real way it could affect politics in general.
> 
> Honestly there are some ways that End Times fears coincide with liberal concerns when it comes to spying and tracking us. You might hate the NSA's insane data collecting for invasion of privacy reasons and a Christian might hate it for collecting info that will be used by the Antichrist to round up Christians down the road. Either way you will both vote against any expansion of the NSA. I have never known Christians to just look at it as inevitable and not try to fight it.


*And then there is this :*


_"He required everyoneâsmall and great, rich and poor, free and slaveâto be given a mark *on* the right hand or *on* the forehead. And no one could buy or sell anything without that mark, which was either the name of the beast or the number representing his name." _ Revelation 13:16-17 (NLT)  _"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: 'If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark *on* the forehead or  *on* the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.'" _ Revelation 14:9 (NIV) 
_"The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly and painful sores broke out *on* the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image."_ Revelation 16:2 (NIV) 
_"Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark *on* their forehead and *on* their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. _ Revelation 20:4 (NASB) 

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...ic-identification-for-all-of-humanity-by-2030


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Woolieface said:


> The sun darkening and the moon turning blood red should be fairly obvious signs.
> .


 Those things happen numerous times every year somewhere on the Earth. They're called solar and lunar eclipses. 
Now I have no doubt that at some point, things are gonna get bad for everyone, whether from a natural disaster or self-inflicted worldwide destruction, but as to whether someone long ago could see into the future, who knows. If you're going by the bible, many passages in that same book take a very dim view of prophesies, sorcerers and fortune tellers, so I don't know how 'good' it is to be delving into and basing actions off of such things...
And its not much of a stretch to 'prophesize' that people won't be able to get along.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

When Jesus was alive, people were so bound up with stereo types of what the Son of God would be that they missed recognizing him when he was standing right in front of them.

I think blanket stereotypification can be a dangerous thing. I just bet this anti christ fellow will have quite a few tricks up his sleeves. I would even bet he knows people will be looking out for him, and will take measures not to be so easily identifiable.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

And then there is this :


*"He required everyoneâsmall and great, rich and poor, free and slaveâto be given a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. And no one could buy or sell anything without that mark, which was either the name of the beast or the number representing his name." Revelation 13:16-17 (NLT) "A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: 'If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.'" Revelation 14:9 (NIV) *
"The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly and painful sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image." Revelation 16:2 (NIV) 
"Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4 (NASB) 

That mark is already present. Research the meaning of the words and it means a badge of servitude. The word hand can be translated as power, arm, hand, etc. Look at Islamic fighters and notice what is on their right arms and forehead. It is a badge of servitude to their god. They set the laws on who buys, sells, lives, and dies in areas under their control. How far will their control spread? We don't know. It's no coincidence that the Bible says the leader of those people will seek to change times and laws in the end times. How many groups in the world want to change people to their calendar(time) and laws (Sharia) in the world today?


----------



## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Woolieface said:


> Here are two places that talk about the celestial signs...
> 
> _Luke 21:25-26 ...'And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and looking after those things which are coming on the earth; for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.'
> 
> Joel 2:31 ...'The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come.'_


So... Blood moon preceding an eclipse, a meteor shower, and a major storm all around the Jerusalem area, and people will straight up lose their minds. Any astronomers around here?


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

greg273 said:


> Those things happen numerous times every year somewhere on the Earth. They're called solar and lunar eclipses.
> Now I have no doubt that at some point, things are gonna get bad for everyone, whether from a natural disaster or self-inflicted worldwide destruction, but as to whether someone long ago could see into the future, who knows. If you're going by the bible, many passages in that same book take a very dim view of prophesies, sorcerers and fortune tellers, so I don't know how 'good' it is to be delving into and basing actions off of such things...
> And its not much of a stretch to 'prophesize' that people won't be able to get along.


_Matthew 24:21-22 - For then shall be great tribulation, *such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.* _

Folks had seen plenty of eclipses back then too. There would be little point in mentioning it if this was the idea being expressed.

No passages in the Bible take a dim view of prophecy, which is a word given by God, by His initiative. God takes a dim view of human initiative in seeking future knowledge from sources alternative to Him.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

wiscto said:


> So... Blood moon preceding an eclipse, a meteor shower, and a major storm all around the Jerusalem area, and people will straight up lose their minds. Any astronomers around here?


It doesn't say blood moon....it doesn't say eclipse... it doesn't say anything but the moon "turns to blood". You can figure you have a probable interpretation of this still future event, but I assure you even if the entire bible is faked people were not unaware of common astronomical events.

I'm not sure where the "storm around Jerusalem" comes from.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Woolieface said:


> It doesn't say blood moon....it doesn't say eclipse... it doesn't say anything but the moon "turns to blood". .


 I am not here to debate your beliefs and interpretations of ancient scriptures. I am saying it was a pretty safe bet to predict 'hard times a comin' and 'people gonna fight', which is the essential message of many 'end times' narratives. 

Keep in mind, not everyone takes those books, such as the Bible and the Koran literally. Which is a good thing.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Woolieface said:


> It doesn't say blood moon....it doesn't say eclipse... it doesn't say anything but the moon "turns to blood". You can figure you have a probable interpretation of this still future event, but I assure you even if the entire bible is faked people were not unaware of common astronomical events.
> 
> I'm not sure where the "storm around Jerusalem" comes from.


Right. I keep saying it, and I don't think you believe me. Not all believers think the way you do, and many of them are out there waiting on bated breath for anything that they can interpret as signs of the end times so they can name an Anti-Christ, and go ballistic.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

greg273 said:


> I am not here to debate your beliefs and interpretations of ancient scriptures. I am saying it was a pretty safe bet to predict 'hard times a comin' and 'people gonna fight', which is the essential message of many 'end times' narratives.
> 
> *Keep in mind, not everyone takes those books, such as the Bible and the Koran literally. Which is a good thing.*


I do, other than what is specifically stated to be metaphorical. I guess you might see that as a "bad" thing, but I think God intends to give the world no good excuse for missing the warnings.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

In my lifetime, I have seen printed books describing how every current president was the antichrist. Most of the books in my day pointed at the Catholic Church, they were of course written by Protestants, I have no idea what the Catholics read.  I seem to, vaguely, recall Obama's name coming up frequently on this board. So, now it is the Muslims. 
Me thinks you need to read your Bibles more. Try it with prayer and fasting and, fasting and prayer.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

wiscto said:


> Right. I keep saying it, and I don't think you believe me. Not all believers think the way you do, and many of them are out there waiting on bated breath for anything that they can interpret as signs of the end times so they can name an Anti-Christ, and go ballistic.


Some interpret the signs of the end times differently, yes...but there is Nothing, I mean....nothing at all, that talks about Christians getting into a war with anyone in the end times. I have met many believers who believe many things about the end times, but never one that believed that was going to happen. Don't even know what they could find to interpret that way.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Woolieface said:


> Some interpret the signs of the end times differently, yes...but there is Nothing, I mean....nothing at all, that talks about Christians getting into a war with anyone in the end times. I have met many believers who believe many things about the end times, but never one that believed that was going to happen. Don't even know what they could find to interpret that way.



Me either. 
Every so often you'll find one of those "doomsday" congregations that commit mass suicide, but they don't go around setting off bombs to take as many "non-believers" with them as possible.
In fact we're told repeatedly throughout the Bible to patient and let God take care of business. He does it so much better than we can.

I think this irrational fear of Christians and prophecy comes from their own internal convictions of the Holy Spirit.
As far as taking the Bible literally, the more I study and longer I live, the more I find that it is *literal*.
Other than parables, ethnic expressions of speech like Hebraisms, and the inability to fully describe technology in an ancient language, I've found it to be almost word for word an accurate telling of the world as we are living it.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

farmrbrown said:


> Me either.
> Every so often you'll find one of those "doomsday" congregations that commit mass suicide, but they don't go around setting off bombs to take as many "non-believers" with them as possible.
> In fact we're told repeatedly throughout the Bible to patient and let God take care of business. He does it so much better than we can.
> 
> ...


I would even say that those "doomsday cults", and I can only recall a couple, were not lead by anyone remotely Christian. Jim Jones was carrying out a mind control experiment, to name one.

People rage against Christianity because they hate the conviction of His Spirit and the enemy latches on to that repulsion... both human and demonic. This is why we'll eventually see Christians persecuted and put to death all over the world.

As Ive read the bible, it's been nothing but absolutely accurate in every way as history unfolds.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Matthew 24:36

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Woolieface said:


> People rage against Christianity because they hate the conviction of His Spirit .


 Nah, i think it has more to do with the hypocrisy and the 'holier than thou' attitude of some of its adherents. 
For example, they want to plaster their symbols all over the public buildings, yet freak out when anyone else wants to do the same thing. They get offended when you don't acknowledge their ripped-off pagan holiday they co-opted. Then they rage against some of Gods creation by using passages from a book they tell us 'doesn't count'. 
People would get along a lot better if they kept their personal relationship with the creator personal, and not try to use it as a bludgeoning tool or an excuse to justify their own hatreds and prejudices. This goes for all religious fanatics.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

greg273 said:


> Nah, i think it has more to do with the hypocrisy and the 'holier than thou' attitude of some of its adherents.
> For example, they want to plaster their symbols all over the public buildings, yet freak out when anyone else wants to do the same thing. They get offended when you don't acknowledge their ripped-off pagan holiday they co-opted. Then they rage against some of Gods creation by using passages from a book they tell us 'doesn't count'.
> People would get along a lot better if they kept their personal relationship with the creator personal, and not try to use it as a bludgeoning tool or an excuse to justify their own hatreds and prejudices. This goes for all religious fanatics.


*
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. - Jhn 15:18,19*


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Ah yes, and playing the 'poor persecuted victim' card when they don't get their way, that is another reason they get static.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

greg273 said:


> Ah yes, and playing the 'poor persecuted victim' card when they don't get their way, that is another reason they get static.


Can you turn it up, I can't hear the static, especially on this website...

It seems that there are a lot of non-believers doing the "Boo-Hoo" routine...


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Woolieface said:


> As far as Jesus goes... I guess you'll know sooner or later.


Have you considered the possibility that your religion might not be the true religion?


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Nevada said:


> Have you considered the possibility that your religion might not be the true religion?


If I had not considered the truth important enough to seek it wherever it was, I would not be a Christian today...


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Greg, do you think those young girls that were abducted from their school in Africa were playing the "poor persecuted victim card" when they were either made into slaves or sold to the highest bidder, or killed? There are/were persecuted victims as are their families. They were Christian I believe...

Nevada, I have had questions throughout my adult life about God, religion and ethics. I would be a liar if I said otherwise. The 10 Commandments are a good basis for living a life where you don't have a lot of regrets when your time is up. Compared to other religions and attitudes in the past and currently, a Christian or Jewish life stacks up with a more positive life than other options in my way of thinking. If other folks choose a different religion or no religion at all that is fine with me...


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Woolieface said:


> I would even say that those "doomsday cults", and I can only recall a couple, were not lead by anyone remotely Christian. Jim Jones was carrying out a mind control experiment, to name one.
> 
> *People rage against Christianity because they hate the conviction of His Spirit and the enemy latches on to that repulsion... both human and demonic.* This is why we'll eventually see Christians persecuted and put to death all over the world.
> 
> As Ive read the bible, it's been nothing but absolutely accurate in every way as history unfolds.


I wish y'all wouldn't say this because honestly it just isn't true. And I think it helps give Christians a pass in their own minds because instead of looking at the genuine reasons people are leaving the faith or why they have no interest in hearing about Christianity they can just slough it off and say oh it just hurts their conscience. 

The real reason people today run screaming from the Church and Christianity is because of the politics and the hate and hypocrisy. I used to say back in my Christian days that Christians are not being persecuted for righteousness sake it's for straight up obnoxiousness. 

And again I am not taking a poke here. I think you and I have had enough sincere discussions about theology and scripture that you know I don't do it because I am a hater. If you want an opportunity to share the gospel you have to put yourself in a position that will make others come to you and ask what makes you different. If you are a kind and honest and humble and decent helpful person you may very well get your chance. If you are screaming hate and waving signs and infringing on other people's rights and it's more important to you to get a snarky potshot off on a forum than it is to preserve your witness you probably won't.


----------



## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Patchouli said:


> I wish y'all wouldn't say this because honestly it just isn't true. And I think it helps give Christians a pass in their own minds because instead of looking at the genuine reasons people are leaving the faith or why they have no interest in hearing about Christianity they can just slough it off and say oh it just hurts their conscience.
> 
> The real reason people today run screaming from the Church and Christianity is because of the politics and the hate and hypocrisy. I used to say back in my Christian days that Christians are not being persecuted for righteousness sake it's for straight up obnoxiousness.
> 
> And again I am not taking a poke here. I think you and I have had enough sincere discussions about theology and scripture that you know I don't do it because I am a hater. If you want an opportunity to share the gospel you have to put yourself in a position that will make others come to you and ask what makes you different. If you are a kind and honest and humble and decent helpful person you may very well get your chance. If you are screaming hate and waving signs and infringing on other people's rights and it's more important to you to get a snarky potshot off on a forum than it is to preserve your witness you probably won't.


If you're reading that whole sentence in my post, you see that I talk about the reason that Christians will be put to death all over the world.

Now, I assume that at the most obnoxious you've ever found a Christian to be, you've never contemplated their murder. I will also assume that you don't condone it.

Christians Are being murdered in great numbers in many countries right now...there will come a day that this happens here too. The reason, from the perspective of the human soul is that the rejection of His Spirit in their hatred will allow the influence of the enemy to fill that void and they will think nothing of the killing of Christians.

There's nothing snarky intended in the mention of the conviction of His Spirit. I am convicted by Him every day to do something better and be someone better. It's not always pleasant. Sometimes I want to reject the guidance as well. It's the initiative of the soul that non believers might call the conscience. Anyone can watch what happens to people and societies that reject "their conscience" continually. The Bible describes it as being "seared with a hot iron" and it's why there is so much ugly in the world today.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Why do Christians have such a persecution complex. That's what I want to know. Millions of people are killed for political and religious views every year, many people on this very forum seem to think we should just wipe out all Muslims, and yet when it happens to even a hand full of Christians they can't wait to tell everyone about it. There's something really wrong with that world view.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

wiscto said:


> Why do Christians have such a persecution complex. That's what I want to know. Millions of people are killed for political and religious views every year, many people on this very forum seem to think we should just wipe out all Muslims, and yet when it happens to even a hand full of Christians they can't wait to tell everyone about it. There's something really wrong with that world view.


I don't know who thinks we should "wipe out all Muslims"... That's not what my God tells me to be doing. I think you will not find that Christians are murdering Muslims in the Middle East while the world looks the other way. That is happening to Christians. Or how about what Christians can expect to face in China for just owning a bible. If owning or preaching from a traditional bible (not one edited to political correctness standards) becomes a felony or a capital crime here at some point, will you defend that?


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Woolieface said:


> I don't know who thinks we should "wipe out all Muslims"... That's not what my God tells me to be doing. I think you will not find that Christians are murdering Muslims in the Middle East while the world looks the other way. That is happening to Christians. Or how about what Christians can expect to face in China for just owning a bible. If owning or preaching from a traditional bible (not one edited to political correctness standards) becomes a felony or a capital crime here at some point, will you defend that?


Yea. It's also happening to Muslims and Yazidis. And no, I wouldn't support that law. And this isn't China. And Christians aren't the only ones having problems with the Chinese government. As always, my point is, why are religious groups so dang self centered? Do you look the other way when Shiites kill Sunnis? Do you look the other way when other religious groups are suppressed in China?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Woolieface said:


> I don't know who thinks we should "wipe out all Muslims"... That's not what my God tells me to be doing. I think you will not find that Christians are murdering Muslims in the Middle East while the world looks the other way. That is happening to Christians. Or how about what Christians can expect to face in China for just owning a bible. If owning or preaching from a traditional bible (not one edited to political correctness standards) becomes a felony or a capital crime here at some point, will you defend that?


7thswan seems to be of that opinion. 

I don't know about the middle east but it is happening in Africa:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html



> BANGUI, Central African Republic â Tens of thousands of Muslims are fleeing to neighboring countries by plane and truck as Christian militias stage brutal attacks, shattering the social fabric of this war-ravaged nation.
> In towns and villages as well as here in the capital, Christian vigilantes wielding machetes have killed scores of Muslims, who are a minority here, and burned and looted their houses and mosques in recent days, according to witnesses, aid agencies and peacekeepers. Tens of thousands of Muslims have fled their homes.
> The cycle of chaos is fast becoming one of the worst outbreaks of violence along Muslim-Christian fault lines in recent memory in sub-Saharan Africa, tensions that have also plagued countries such as Nigeria and Sudan.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrIXZw2Vxa8[/ame]


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

This has been an interesting read. And yes, I do believe Islam has a place in the end times...just as I believe ALL ethnic groups will have a part to play during the last days. 

It is obvious there are some who do not believe the Bible is the written Word of God. That belief is their right. One cannot talk about Biblical matters to such a person but only envite that person to take a chance he/she may be in error, pray to a God of power to give them the gift of the Holy Spirit and then let the Holy Spirit reason with them internally.

For those of us who do trust Scripture, we too can differ in beliefs. However, those who let go of personal beliefs they were brought up with and study the Scripture for themselves will find the Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself; nor does He identify more than one Messiah. I am one who believes in a Higher Power and the 3-person Diety; and my belief about Jesus' return is this: First of all, Jesus is not coming back as a "fierce warrior" to "stop the war". When He returns this 2nd time, his feet won't even touch the ground. His reason for coming is to take those back with Him whose names are written in the Book of Life and there they will reign for 1000 yrs judging those who were left on earth. (On earth, of course, the wicked all sleep except for the devil and his angels who now roam the earth for those 1000 yrs with no one to entice to sin.) Now I'm not telling this to invite an argument. I am just letting all know where I stand spiritually. You all have the right to your own stands.

Poppy you brought up the "mark of the beast". Have you ever researched the "seal of God"? When I study Scripture in this regard I find it is here where the last battle will be fought; and it will be a literal battle moved by spiritual intent. It is here where those who follow the true Messiah will find they do not need to fight. The God they have waited for will do their fighting for them. And just as in ancient times when God made it so obvious He was the one doing battle, so it will be that obvious in this end time.

I urge those of you who trust the Scriptures to examine the "prophesies" of that Bible. They are so very clear as to what has and will occur here on earth. And those of you who do not trust the Holy Bible are just as free as those who do trust it to "work out your own salvation...with fear and trembling". (Interestingly enough, have those of you who have ever made personal changes in your lives noticed how frightening such changes can be? You can expect such to be even more so when those changes are spiritual in nature.)


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Forcast, thank you for sharing that. I didn't realize that there was a concept of dualism but I suspected that. 

Many years ago I worked in a cafeteria at a No. VA college. I remember only too well how I was interacted with the Arabic male students. One was polite and civil while the others treated me with disdain and superiority. I have railed and complained within my own family about this attitude for decades and thought it was based in their culture. Now I sense it was as much about their religion as well as family traditions. I guess it really is all one and the same...


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> 7thswan seems to be of that opinion.
> 
> I don't know about the middle east but it is happening in Africa:
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html





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Africa
Tens of thousands of Muslims flee Christian militias in Central African Republic
Resize Text Print Article Comments 183

Instability and violence in Central African Republic	
View Photos	Killings and atrocities continue as thousands flee to neighboring countries.
By Sudarsan Raghavan February 7, 2014 
BANGUI, Central African Republic &#8211; Tens of thousands of Muslims are fleeing to neighboring countries by plane and truck as Christian militias stage brutal attacks, shattering the social fabric of this war-ravaged nation.

In towns and villages as well as here in the capital, Christian vigilantes wielding machetes have killed scores of Muslims, who are a minority here, and burned and looted their houses and mosques in recent days, according to witnesses, aid agencies and peacekeepers. Tens of thousands of Muslims have fled their homes.

The cycle of chaos is fast becoming one of the worst outbreaks of violence along Muslim-Christian fault lines in recent memory in sub-Saharan Africa, tensions that have also plagued countries such as Nigeria and Sudan.

The brutalities began to escalate when the country&#8217;s first Muslim leader, Michel Djotodia, stepped down and went into exile last month. Djotodia, who had seized power in a coup last March, had been under pressure from regional leaders to resign. His departure was meant to bring stability to this poor country, but humanitarian and human rights workers say there is more violence now than at any time since the coup.

&#8220;Civilians remain in constant fear for their lives and have been largely left to fend for themselves,&#8221; Martine Flokstra, emergency coordinator for the aid agency Doctors Without Borders, said in a statement Friday, adding that the violence had reached &#8220;extreme and unprecedented&#8221; levels.

On Friday, thousands of Muslims hopped aboard trucks packed with their possessions, protected by soldiers from Chad, and drove out of Bangui, as Christians cheered their departures or tried to loot the trucks as they drove through Christian areas. At least one Muslim man, who fell from a truck, was killed by a mob. Meanwhile, thousands more Muslims huddled at the airport in a crowded hangar, waiting to be evacuated.

&#8220;They are killing Muslims with knives,&#8221; said Muhammed Salih Yahya, 38, a shopkeeper, making a slitting motion across his throat. He arrived at the airport Wednesday from the western town of Yaloke with his wife and five children. &#8220;I built my house over two years, but the Christians destroyed it in minutes. I want to leave.&#8221;

*Why did you post just that part of the article? Was it solely to try to make it look like Christians were killing peaceful Muslims? Here's more from the same article you conveniently forgot to post:*



Christians have also been victims of violence, targeted by Muslims in this complex communal conflict that U.N. and humanitarian officials fear could implode into genocide. Several hundred thousand Christians remain in crowded, squalid camps, unable or too afraid to return home."

There is a culture war going on there and I expect you think the Christians should just roll over and be killed.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

wiscto said:


> Yea. It's also happening to Muslims and Yazidis. And no, I wouldn't support that law. And this isn't China. And Christians aren't the only ones having problems with the Chinese government. As always, my point is, why are religious groups so dang self centered? Do you look the other way when Shiites kill Sunnis? Do you look the other way when other religious groups are suppressed in China?


People who are being killed for what they believe have a "persecution complex"? Here is the point... it wasn't a comparison to other persecuted groups, the point is it's happening and all people seem to want to say about it is who else is being persecuted. The media wants very little to do with it... and the administration of our government wants Nothing to do with it. We hear a lot about the Muslim groups who are targeted by Isis and have a supposed refugee crisis going on from that much publicized issue, but oddly we're not doing anything about the Christians who are there.

Americans will still scoff about the "persecution complex" when this reality comes to our back yard.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

People who think "their kind" are being persecuted more, killed more frequently and in greater numbers, while the world around them is full of people who are in the same position or worse, have a persecution complex. Tell me how Jews are doing in China since you brought up China. How about Muslims. How about Sikhs. How about anyone. Why do SOME Christians like to speak as if the whole world is only against them, even when others have it worse?

Persecution complex.... That's why. Or maybe I should say "martyr complex," since it is probably derived, at least in part, from Jesus' crucifixion. Muslims in the Middle East were persecuting other Muslims over theological differences for a long time before ISIS went after Christians.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

motdaugrnds said:


> This has been an interesting read. And yes, I do believe Islam has a place in the end times...just as I believe ALL ethnic groups will have a part to play during the last days.
> 
> It is obvious there are some who do not believe the Bible is the written Word of God. That belief is their right. One cannot talk about Biblical matters to such a person but only envite that person to take a chance he/she may be in error, pray to a God of power to give them the gift of the Holy Spirit and then let the Holy Spirit reason with them internally.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your thoughts Mot, although I can't really say that I believe in salvation or damnation, I grew up Catholic and I didn't remember hearing anything about going to war against the Anti-Christ. But I also had some friends in my 20s who joined a certain congregation and were convinced that they were going to do just that; because they were convinced it was going to happen in our lifetime. Those were some uncomfortable conversations. They were worried that I was the sort of person who would take the mark because as a non-believer I wasn't strong enough to resist temptation. I did my best to reassure them, but, yea...


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Catholics are not encouraged to read the bible. Catholics put more faith in their sacraments for salvation. I use to be a catholic. Did not read the bible until I left the Catholics


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

City Bound said:


> Catholics are not encouraged to read the bible. Catholics put more faith in their sacraments for salvation. I use to be a catholic. Did not read the bible until I left the Catholics


Well that wasn't my experience so, chalk that one up to your particular congregation?


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

wiscto said:


> Well that wasn't my experience so, chalk that one up to your particular congregation?


study the bible or just read a few passages and stories out of it now and then when they supported some holiday? Sure, we did that but we never studied the bible properly like many Protestant sects do. We were taught that receiving communion was more important then reading the bible.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

City Bound said:


> study the bible or just read a few passages and stories out of it now and then when they supported some holiday? Sure, we did that but we never studied the bible properly like many Protestant sects do. We were taught that receiving communion was more important then reading the bible.


Yea.... Well we had Sunday School, so, I can't really say that my church didn't encourage us to study the bible. I didn't have much of a choice if I didn't want my parents to think I was in there sleeping the whole time.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Wolf mom said:


> Don't have 1 hr and 16 minutes to sit through this.
> 
> City Bound, Why don't you recap??


There is no way to recap this without writing a small book. I sat through it once to absorb the content and it was well worth the time. I plan to listen to it again but in order to decide how much I do agree with him. His main point is do demonstrate how western thinking causes end times scripture to be misinterpreted. Having the scriptures interpreted by a converted Muslim brings new insights .... similar to the way new insight is brought by converted Jews.

One of the most significant points he makes is to demonstrate that the Roman Empire did not consist of only the European countries but included all of the Mediterrean rim countries which wrap around the Mediterranean shore and include the north African countries ... all of which are predominately Muslim nations.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I haven't watched CB's video post yet either, but this article this morning may be related and it's a brief summary of the apocalyptic battle that the Muslims are looking forward to in THEIR prophetic writings.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-strategy-seeks-to-avoid-isis-prophecy/ar-AAg9gDg?li=BBnb7Kz


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

why is anyone surprised by religious wars they have been going on since the beginning of religion ..........right

I bet many here are old enough to remember our parents and grand parents telling us to eat your dinner or clean your plate children are starving in Africa. I always thought well why not put the food I didnt like in a box and send it to Africa. My point is starving children in africa in nothing new, nor is wars fought over religion.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

farmrbrown said:


> I haven't watched CB's video post yet either, but this article this morning may be related and it's a brief summary of the apocalyptic battle that the Muslims are looking forward to in THEIR prophetic writings.
> 
> http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-strategy-seeks-to-avoid-isis-prophecy/ar-AAg9gDg?li=BBnb7Kz


That's interesting.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Another angle is that walid is saying what he is saying and doing what he is doing because he is still a terrorist but instead of bombs he is planting ideas in Christian's minds that will convince Christians that the end times have come thus instigating and escalating conflict. 

Could be. Just saying we need to second guess everyone, even ourselves.


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