# Pond population problem



## oldasrocks

Our 1/2 acre pond is horribly overstocked with bluegills, small crappie and small bass.

This pond was here when we bought the place 10 yrs ago. There were a few bluegill and a few bass in it. I slowly dug it out larger and 4 yrs ago hired a track hoe to remove another 30 loads of dirt out. Where ever he could get through the hard pan he went down to 25 ft. So the pond varies in depth from 2 ft to 25 ft. 

Eight years ago we put in 50 large mouth bass and 50 catfish. Add to that a few larger catfish we caught at the big lake. Five years ago we added 50 more bass and 50 black crappie (bad mistake) We thought the large mouth bass and catfish would clean up the excess crappie and bluegill. WRONG We have 15 inch bass, large catfish, and tons of smaller fish.

We caught a 5 gallon bucket of small bluegill one day and didn't make a dent in the population. Yesterday I caught 15 small fish and 4 of them were 3 inch bass so they are breeding too. I've tried fish traps with little success. We can't seine it out due to the water depths. I can't find a shocker to rent or buy.

Any additional ideas out there?


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## big rockpile

Ok we had the same problem in a little bigger pond,found our mistakes.Went killed everything.Stocked with nothing but Hybrid Bluegill and Channel Catfish.

You can get Channel Catfish big as you want just depends on how much you want to spend and how long you are willing to feed them.

big rockpile


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## oldasrocks

The 50 catfish we put in there were 7 inches long and have grown to 5-6 lbs. I have no idea how many survived. We also have several large catfish up to 44 lbs we put in over the years. Largest one we have caught and released was 26 lbs.

We don't want to kill off the pond. Its our backup meat storage locker if SHTF.


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## big rockpile

Well see if you can find some one with a Big enough Net to sein it.

big rockpile


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## Bearfootfarm

> Any additional ideas out there?


Can you drain the pond?
If you can get a lot of the water out, you could use Rotenone to kill any remaining fish and then start over


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## 7thswan

Charge people 5 bucks to come in and fish.


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## ||Downhome||

put a few decent size pike in, big enough the bass and cats cant eat them.


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## oneokie

Second the suggestion to use Rotenone and start over.


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## fishhead

It's possible to do partial rotenoning if you are careful.

You can always fish out the smaller fish. 

Normally bass take over ponds but in your case the bluegills may be eating the bass fry. Gizzard shad will do that too.


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## fishhead

Fish traps usually work well for small bluegill. Try putting a current of water through the trap.


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## WstTxLady

take out the crappie & the bass & bluegills will come back better.


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## oldasrocks

We can't seine the pond due to the varying depths. See original post. We had a track hoe dig holes where ever he could get through the hardpan. You can't even walk through the shallows either as your foot goes down in the clay and gets trapped between rocks. I have a boot out there somewhere.

We don't want to kill it off and start over. Finding some pike is an excellant idea. They would clean up some of the excess bluegills fast.

We caught 25 smal bluegills this afternoon ranging from 2 inches to 4 inches.


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## fishhead

A friend of mine spent $5,500 to kill the pike in his 10 acre pond. If they can spawn they will wipe out most fish in a small lake.

Seines don't have to reach the bottom for sunfish or crappies unless you are trying to get 100% and even under the best pond conditions that takes repeat seinings. I figured that I got 80-85% the first pull, 10% the second and <5% the third and my ponds were 3-4' deep and had relatively flat bottoms.


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## oldasrocks

Fishhead, my pond probably looks like a war zone on the bottom with various sized holes here and there. Add in a lot of large rocks and you can imagine the picture. No way to seine. Everything is spawning now and thats the problem so Pike would probably do the same. Wondering if I could buy neutered Pike???

I wish I could find a fish shocker that would work. Maybe I could sit in my aluminum canoe during a lightning storm and fly a kite??? I could use that lightweight electric fence wire for string.


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## Bearfootfarm

> I wish I could find a fish shocker that would work


A small generator and a couple of wires hanging in the water is what the wildlife biologists around here use


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## oldasrocks

Bearfoot , Could you ask one of them how they do it? I've tried that with a 5 KW and it just blows the fuse.


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## Pops2

try cast netting over floating bait like dog food or oatmeal


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## fishhead

I've never heard of any triploid pike but you could add a single fish. The bass should do the trick. I live on a shallow 180 acre lake. One year following a winterkill the lake was packed with minnows since it is shallow and fertile. You could stand on the shore and watch schools of minnows 30' in diameter swim by. Then someone stocked a few breeder bass and by the end of the summer there were no minnows left. 

One way to get rid of some sunfish is to position the seine parallel to the shore and out as far as you can without catching rocks. Put long ropes on the ends of the seine so you can pull it from shore. Feed them between the seine and the shore for a few days and then feed followed by pulling the seine once they gather.

I think what's happening in your pond is that all the little sunfish are eating the bass fry before they get large enough to eat the sunfish fry.


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## backwoodsman

We are dealing with this same problemin one of the new ponds but its stunted bluegill and some kind of minnow? Our solution, FLATHEADS, just dropped a 25lber in. This pond is fairly deep for a small one and around here, 8ftish. We're doing some netting and sampling in a few weeks to see how much damage the flats are doing. Theres a 8lber, 15lber and the 25lber. The pond is 60' wide and kidney shaped and about 200' long. Once the nuisance fish population is lowered considerable(may take a few months)we'll remove the flats by either netting or setlines and probably drop them in the second pond or over the dam to the lake. Our ponds and lake are also a backup meat source for teoftwawki or shtf so we wont poison them. Crappie should never be put into a pond without predators and if its too small. Ex FIL built ponds for a living and recommended at least 25 acres of water before crappie were considered. We have quite a few ponds with crappie around here and the successful ones are large ponds/small lakes. When we use to shock for fish the old telelphone generators for handcrank phones worked good. We had several and they never wear out. Antique dealer or if your near Ruttledge, Missouri should be able to turn you onto one. Last I knew they were still being made/reconditioned by a company for use as something legal? If you know anyone that fish's for flats they will be happy to remove some of the small fish I bet. We have several ponds and lakes the owners let us trap small bluegill/sunfish/crappie for our setlines. Win win situation for all involved. We debated/contemplated not doing anything with the pond but its too full of "bait".


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## fishhead

It might be possible to buy sterile (triploid) crappies. I spoke with a researcher in LA who was doing it about 8-10 yrs ago so some private producer may have started producing them by now.


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## charliesbugs

We have had the same problem with sunfish that overflow from a creek near the pond. You can mess around with a doz. diff ways to get rid of them but you "may never" really get rid of them all,and in a couple years will have the same prob. Kill off everthing and start over, Bluegills, bass and channel cats which also eat bluegills, also have had good luck with the hy.bluegill. Been doing this for over 40 years and fin. built a 3 ft dike on the one end that flooded,hope my prob.is solved with that. Good luck


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## oldasrocks

I am not going to kill off everything. There are several catfish ranging up to 44 lbs in there. We caught them in the big lake and turned them loose here. Add to that up to 50 smaller cats 5 to 6 lbs. 100 bass 15 to 20 inches minus a few.

Everything I read says the bass will eat all the bluegill small fry. So something is amiss.

I liked the idea of Pike but read they will eat the bass first????

So I think the options open are to feed everything well to grow the 4 to 5 inch blugill up to eating size--which will also mean breeding size-- Build more traps and experiment with baits as an ongoing means to remove excesses. Find a way to grind up the trapped bluegills and turn into feed. Already tried an old meat grinder-turns them into mush or soup consistancy. Keep searching for ways to shock the pond and remove excess that way.


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## oneokie

oldasrocks said:


> Everything I read says the bass will eat all the bluegill small fry. So something is amiss.


The Crappie are what your problem is. Until you control the Crappie or eliminate them, you will not get a handle on your problem.

Talk to your Fish and Game Dept. for ideas/suggestions on what to do. Check with your local extension service for information on aquaculture, they may have information.


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## fishhead

Gillnets work well and are relatively inexpensive.

Try Memphis Net or Sterling Net for prices.

Small bass will eat bluegill fry but I think the small bluegills are eating most of the bass fry so there aren't enough small bass.


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## charliesbugs

I hate to say you didn"t know what you were doing but you didn"t know what you were doing. Rockpile had it right, you have to start over, You have been trying to fix the prob. for 8 years I think and have not gotten anywhere. As to putting the big cats in, big cats eat big bait not 1 inch bluegills, so they are eating all the bigger fish and nothing is controling every years new hatch of gill and crappies. If you put in some 40 lb. cats years ago you prob. have some 75 lb. cats now. You might not like what I said but you ask for help and ideas. If your pond is 1/2 acre and 25 ?? ft deep which is VERY deep for 1/2 acre you prob. have about 2 barrel of junk fish in it. I carried a bunch of 5 gal. buckets of dead fish the last time I cleaned mine out,and I started on mine as soon as I saw it was out of control. Hope someone else agrees with me on this as am speaking from exp. I stated before have done this a couple times with 2 of mine in the last 44 years.


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## oldasrocks

Thanks Charliesbugs--Well you called a spade a spade. I humbly agree you are right.
The whole pond is not 25 ft deep but some places are. I didn't realize a problem existed until last yr. Having more time than most people being retired I'm treating this like a game. If I kill it off-- game over and no fun. I would also lose the major meat of the catfish if SHTF. The cats are easy to catch. Just chunk off a piece of bluegill and toss it in where they like to lay. Be sure to use 50 lb test line.

I've been reading rumors out of Russia that North Korea torpedoed the oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico. Supposedly news of it have been blacklisted here. If this is true even the small bluegill could be supper.

Today I fenced off the major breeding or egg nest area for the bluegills. I built it like a fishtrap. In but not out. I should be able to selectively catch the larger bluegills for supper that way.

After all the nice people in here gave me advice I realize I have no idea what I am doing. Maybe you should all come over to a LARGE fish fry then I could poison what is left.


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## fishhead

I think you might be surprised at how many little fish a small bass can eat.

One time I seined the bass fingerlings out of one of my 1/2 acre ponds. I seined the pond several times and figured that I had gotten nearly all of them. Then I put 15 gallons of minnows in the pond to spawn. They should have produced 100's of thousands of small minnows.

When I seined the pond in the fall I only had 50-100 3-4" bass and NO minnows except for a few that had gotten into a fish pen when they were small and grew to large to escape through the mesh.


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## oldasrocks

I had a surpise today. I was fishing for bluegill with a bobber and small hook. My bobber moved just a little then a large catfish broke the water BOOM. I'm guessing the bluegill became lunch. Thats the first time I've ever saw a catfish break the water like a dolphin.

Last year I saw several schools of minnows and have not seen any this year. Hundreds of small bluegill though.

I hope you are right fishhead. Maybe the bass will gobble up the fingerling before they grow too much.


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## oldasrocks

fishhead, I fed the fish tonight. Most of the channel catfish coming to feed had a mouth from 2 to 4 inches wide. How big do you think they are?


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## Bearfootfarm

oldasrocks said:


> Bearfoot , Could you ask one of them how they do it? I've tried that with a 5 KW and it just blows the fuse.


The wires were run through fiberglass or PVC poles mounted in angled brackets, and the wires were about 8 ft apart, and extended about a ft into the water

They were on either side of the bow of a large john boat, about 4 ft in front of the boat, and the guy with the net would just stand in the front and scoop up the fish.

I don't recall what size the generator was, but it wasn't a huge one.
They were gathering fish in the river to use in an exhibit at the State Fair


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## fishhead

I haven't handled channel cats for 20 years but I'd say the best way to find out is to catch one and weigh it. I would guess a 4" wide mouth would belong to a 2-3 pound cat.

If you place 5 gallon buckets on their sides in 3-4' of water the cats will spawn in them. Put a lid on the bucket and cut a 6" hole in the lid.


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## backwoodsman

They like those big clay tile too. Any hollow will attract them.


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## FarmerDave

oldasrocks said:


> fishhead, I fed the fish tonight. Most of the channel catfish coming to feed had a mouth from 2 to 4 inches wide. How big do you think they are?


Just wondering how often and how much you feed. Wondering if you might be hampering their appetite for the fry by providing a much easier menu? Just a thought.


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## oldasrocks

I feed them once or twice a week. I've often wondered if feeding them is bad or good. If they get bigger they will eat more. Will feeding them make them grow faster or make them into lazy socialist welfare recipients?

I throw a gallon of floating fish food out from the dock because its fun to see them feed. One cat is pure black--mudcat?? --


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## fishhead

Good food will help them grow faster and fatter. It won't stop them from foraging.

The black one is probably just a color variation. You can also buy albinos.


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## backwoodsman

We've got albinos. Neat to watch from high up on the dam, you can see them fairly deep. All the color variations eat the same. We dont feed ours, every now and then we'll let kids, company throw some in.


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## netexan

It sounds to me like part of your problem is that you have had too many fish in your small pond, not just the bluegills and crappies, but total amount of biomass per cu.ft. of water; and adding more fish over the years has magnified the problem. If you stocked bass 5 & 8 years ago they should be a lot bigger than 15". Your disolved oxygen & nitrate levels may be way out of wack and this will hinder growth also, sometimes even more so than predation. No oxygen, no growth.
I had an over abundance of small crappie and bluegills 3 years ago so I put in some bass and that fixed the problem within 2 years. This spring I've been catching bass to 4# and bluegills from 1/2lb up to a 1 1/4lbs. Since you don't want to kill off your pond, I would think that you might want to start removing as many fish as you can, including some of the bass and smaller catfish. JMO


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## NJ Rich

I think crappie spawn earlier than the bass and then eat the eggs and fry of other fish.

Catch all the crappie and sun fish you can. You may think about adding some small bait fish, i.e:minnows, but you will need some cover for them to hide in. Brush or weeds. Watch out for what type weed you put in. 

Sorry I didn't read all the previous posts. Does your state provide any assistance for pond stocking or advice?


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## oldasrocks

netexan, I totally agree-too many fish-- and thats why I started the thread. The surplus is mostly the 4 to 5 inch bluegill that are too big to be eaten by the bass. I know the bass have spawned too as we catch a few 2 to 3 inch bass. A person would think the bass would grow faster as so much food available. There are schools of 1 to 2 inch bluegills in there.

Maybe I should import some kids that like to fish for bluegill?


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## texican

I'd think you'd be able to thin out the smaller perch with some 'perch traps'. Locals can strip a pond bare in short order of small perch, with a trap and some bread.


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## oldasrocks

Tes, I'll dig into "perch traps" on the net and see what I can find.I have one big fish trap in the water but not doing much good. I also built a stream type trap ovea favorite breeding area.


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## DavidUnderwood

Its very noticable around here that
ponds that are fished hard have healthy
populations. Ponds where the owner don't
allow others to fish go to heck shortly.
Some people around here were to peculiar
to let others fish. Now nobody even wants
to. Our biggest pond is about three acres.
Somebody there fishing most days. Its a
good pond. Don't monkey with it much.


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## oldasrocks

Dave, You are right. The pond needs fished more. Come on over.


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## fishhead

When I was at Auburn we were taught that a well managed/fertilized fish pond could produce 500 lbs/acre/year of bluegill and bass. That's a LOT of fish to be harvested.


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## oldasrocks

Looking for ideas to grind up the little fishes and feed them back for food. I've tried a hand grinder but it turns them into fish soup. Thought of dropping them in a wood shredder but don't have one. Cutting them up by had is a chore.


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## fishhead

Put them in a blender until they are chopped and then freeze them into blocks. Toss a frozen block in the water and the sunfish will pick at while it thaws. A friend of mine did that with some bass he was raising but he used whole minnows.


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## oldasrocks

Oh yummy, a bluegill Slushy!!!!! I better clear this with the better half before I use her blender.

I can hear it now. "Honey, why do the pancakes taste fishy."

Fishhead, I'm looking for a higher volume grinder. Picture a 5 gallon bucket full of bluegills to grind. Great idea if you had a larger freezer to use.


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## fishhead

I bought one to grind up blood worms in. Try explaining that to your wife.


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## DavidUnderwood

Oldasrocks, you didn't say where you are!:rock:


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## oldasrocks

We-all is in Missouri. Come one come all and bring tents, sleeping bags and a fish cooker. I'll supply the baked beans and gas.

fishhead, I gave up trying to explain the stuff I do to my wife a long time ago. You are more than welcome to come try. She just shakes her head and walks away.


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## fishhead

"I'll supply the baked beans and gas."


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## oldasrocks

Wondered if you'd catch that.

How do I put a pic in here?


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## texican

Perch traps are easy... get hardware cloth, or wire mesh small enough to keep fish in, wrap it in a circle, and tie it together with wire, lengthwise. Cut a piece of wire to fit one end of the 'tube'... wire it on 'hard' on one side, and loose enough to undo on the other (so you can undo it, open the end, and dump out the trapped fish). On the other end, you'll need to cut a piece of wire, making a funnel, with a mouth large enough for your perch to get into. Tie a string/rope on the trap, throw a handful of bread inside, throw in the water, come back in an hour or two and dump the fish.

They aren't hard to make...


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## fishhead

oldasrocks said:


> Wondered if you'd catch that.
> 
> How do I put a pic in here?


First open a free Photobucket account or some other image hosting site. 

Upload your images from your computer. T

hen move your cursor down the list of "addresses" on each picture. 

Copy the one that starts


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## netexan

For a pond your size w/ the numbers of fish in it you have indicated you'll really need to reduce the amount of fish in it, both big and small or you will have to aerate the pond and provide supplimental feed. 
I don't believe that just taking out the 2" bluegill and crappie will help much as it sounds like your total pounds of bio-mass (fish) per cubic foot of water is way out of proportion. Mind you I haven't seen this pond nor have I taken water samples but it seems from your descriptions that you have 10#'s of fish in a 5# sack, much in the same manner as commercial fish farmers, who I might add would be in the same boat as you if they didn't supply added oxygen and feed.
So to re-iterate here; remove lots of fish of every size, particularly the ones of breeding age or you will have a never ending problem, or give them air and feed and fish the heck out of it. JMO


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## fishhead

Here's your photo oldasrocks. You can provide the explanation.


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## fishhead

Here's an old image of my ponds.


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## oldasrocks

The fish pic above is one of our resident catfish. He weighed 26 lbs in this photo taken 2 yrs ago. Thats my wife in the pic on the pontoon boat we use as a boat dock. I don't think he looks underfed.


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## fishhead

He looks like he's eating well. You might have to use a 30 gallon spawning barrel for that one.


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## oldasrocks

fishhead, I'm jealous. What all do you grow in there?


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## fishhead

I grew baitfish and gamefish over the years. Not shown in the photo is a 20'x90' artificial river I built to spawn chubs. The current was created with a large paddlewheel.

The ponds were only 4' deep but with a small amount of aeration I was able to overwinter my broodfish even in -30 F.


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## backwoodsman

Looks like a well fed bluecat? They arent the best spawners in small water. Nice layout too. Was the property a fish farm before? As far as grinding/using the bluegill etc if you dont fish other places/trap etc I wouldnt grind them for feed for that pond. If you want some of the panfish gone I wouldnt put feed in for them or the bigger predators for awhile. The flatheads seem to be working for us as the sampling traps have had fewer panfish/minnow things.


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## oldasrocks

fishhead, I put a chunk of bluegill on today to see what I'd catch. I pulled in a 32 lb White a few minutes later. We have a variety of cats in there that we caught at the big lake on troutlines.

He looked fat enough so maybe I'm worried for nothing. I'll send you his pic when developed. I'm too stupid or lazy to figure out how to put digitals in here.


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## fishhead

You sure don't live in MN. In this state you would need a permit to put fish in your pond, they would have to be purchased from a licensed farm, the moment they touch the water all fishing regulations apply and you would need to buy a license to fish for them. 

I think you may be right about overreacting to the number of panfish. As long as there are some keeping sized ones I wouldn't worry too much.


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## oldasrocks

Here is pretty much open to what you want to do on your own land. We have to have a fishing license to fish in the big lake but not on our own property. There are thousands of private ponds just in this county and I would say most are overstocked by lack of fishing pressure. We normally find stunted bass fishing in others and I'm trying to avoid that here. If it wasn't for one good apple tree I'd get a dozer and triple the size of our pond.

Once, complaining to a friend about all the work here on the place he made a suggestion. Dig a 5 acre hole buy a houseboat to put on it and fish. So tempting. The 20 acres to the west is pasture that drains through our pond. With our rainfall that would support a 10 acre lake at least. One of these days I'll run across a large trackhoe I can buy cheap and start digging. I just need a place to haul out the dirt to.


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## tinknal

Maybe instead of grinding the small fish just get a pig or two.

I remember being told about stocked bluegills to not fish at all for 2 years, and after 2 years remove every one caught regardless of size. I bet the same applies to crappies.


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## lisa's garden

The native Americans used Ohio Buckeyes to paralyze fish. I wonder if you could do that and just remove the ones that you don't want? Look it up online, as I don't have any specifics.


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## oldasrocks

Good idea Lisa. Now where to find the trees? Anyone live in Ohio? What part of the tree do I need? Fruit? Sap?


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## lisa's garden

oldasrocks said:


> Good idea Lisa. Now where to find the trees? Anyone live in Ohio? What part of the tree do I need? Fruit? Sap?


I believe they used the nuts or fruits. I'm not sure if they are technically considered a nut. 

They grow in other places too. I'm in northern Illinois and there is one down the road from us. They are just little nubbins right now. We are moving in a couple of weeks so I don't know if I would be able to send any to you.

Here is a site with some info about them...

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/tabid/5343/Default.aspx


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## poppy

Watch the hybrid bluegills too. A small percentage of them will multiply and the offspring will be a totally different fish, depending on what they were crossed with to create the hybrid. They got bad in one of my ponds and I had to call the state fish biologist to find out what they were. They were some type of small sunfish with orange coloring in their fins and tails. They were fat as butterballs but never got much over 3 inches long.


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## Allen W

lisa's garden
Thanks for the buck eye sight, i had some one trying to tell me what we call a coffee bean tree here was a buckeye. I knew it wasn't but I didn't know what a buck eye was.


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## fishhead

The typical hybrid sunfish that people put in the pond is created by crossing a female green sunfish with a male bluegill but different people make different crosses.


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## Cabin Fever

fishhead said:


> Here's an old image of my ponds.


Here's a newer image of your ponds (2007). I see we're practically neighbors! How about we have a campfire together? You bring the fish and I'll bring the Leinenkugels. :grin:


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## lisa's garden

Allen W said:


> lisa's garden
> Thanks for the buck eye sight, i had some one trying to tell me what we call a coffee bean tree here was a buckeye. I knew it wasn't but I didn't know what a buck eye was.


No problem. Someone told me that the pioneers used the buckeyes as a substitute for coffee, but I think it would have killed them. (It contains a narcotic glucoside that can kill livestock) I suspect that what he was talking about was a Kentucky coffee tree. The leaves look similar to a walnut...compound leaves with small leaflets. They have a pod similar to a locust and there are little beans inside. The name would suggest that pioneers might have tried brewing them.

I found the website (below) with this information about the nut...

Legends, Myths and Stories

The buckeye is best known among superstitious people as an amulet for good-luck. The seed is strung and worn as a necklace or simply carried about in pocket or purse.

American Indians put ground nuts in streams to stupefy fish, which floated to the surface for easy harvest. They roasted buckeyes, peeled and mashed them, then leached them, with the result that the toxic principle was removed, leaving a nourishing meal.

Old sources say the nuts will remove mildew stains from linen and a flour made from buckeyes makes an insect-proof paste of great tenacity much preferred by bookbinders. It is also said that moonshiners used the nuts to give their "liker" an aged appearance.

Still, even though considered toxic, American Indians made food from them after elaborate processing.

http

So maybe this will help stupefy those bluegills!


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## lisa's garden

http://www.emedicinal.com/herbs/ohiobuckeye.php

That's odd, the website didn't show up in the post.


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## fishhead

That picture of my farm must have been taken in the spring before I filled the big ponds.

I closed the farm for good last fall so I don't have any fish other than what I catch in my lake. There just wasn't any way to save it from the damage caused by the DNR.

The beer and the fire sounds good though.


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## oldasrocks

I caught a small bucket of bluegill today to try out the chipper I bought at a yard sale. I installed a longer chute on it first. It worked great throwing bite sized bluegill pieces about 20 ft out. Now to rent some kids who like to fish.


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## lisa's garden

Bet that gets pretty stinky! Can you run water through those chippers?


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## oldasrocks

Yes the chipper is stinky. I tried running a few branches through it but no help. Look on the bright side. I can leave it outside and will take odds no one would steal it.


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## GBov

Could you try drying the fish first? Just lay them out on a tarp in the sun and turn them over once or twice a day. Once nice and dry they should chip and shred just fine.


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## fishhead

I always freeze my venison before I grind it. That should help with your fish too.

When I used fish for fertilizer I found that it grew hydrodicton. That plant (algae?) catches and kills small fish. Then as the fish decay and release nutrient the plant absorbs them.


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## oldasrocks

They chip up just fine while fresh. I don't think dried or frozen would make a differance on the chipper smell.

We do use fish for fertilizer also. You just have to be careful to keep the dog fenced out of the garden. They love to dig up the rotten fish and roll in it. YUCK!!


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## oldasrocks

I guess Mother Nature solved my problem. Almost everything died. Last Thursday I found 4 dead grass carp, then Friday, Saturday dead large catfish 15 to 40 lbs, lots of dead bluegills 4-5 inches long and a few bass and crappie. Fishhead told me to check it at dawn which I did and say a lot of fish surface breathing. So I ran to town and bought another pump for air. The only fish I see left are 1 inch bass along the shoreline. There were a lot of bass and 4 to 5 lb catfish in there too?? Died and sank? Or still alive? 

Nothing is bothering the zillion tadpoles swimming everywhere or the small bass/minnows so guessing they all died and sank. I've searched for answers and will talk to Conservation in the morning. I've been waiting 6 weeks for a water test kit from Pond Solutions and can't even get an answer to a E mail. Don't buy from them.


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## fishhead

Starting aeration during a meltdown can sometimes make things work by mixing the bad bottom water with the relatively okay top water. That's why many people aerate a little bit all the time.


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## oldasrocks

I always thought a large pond didn't need aeration. Guess I was wrong. My wife tells me I'm wrong in everything I do so why should this be differant?


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## fishhead

It depends on a lot of factors. Wind, fertility, organic matter build-up, depth, etc.

I would get a Secchi disk and record the depth that you can see it a few times each week. For safety I would like to see a visibility of 2' or more.


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## BackfourtyMI.

oneokie said:


> The Crappie are what your problem is. Until you control the Crappie or eliminate them, you will not get a handle on your problem.
> 
> Talk to your Fish and Game Dept. for ideas/suggestions on what to do. Check with your local extension service for information on aquaculture, they may have information.




I just seen this thread & read all of it but I still don't understand why crappie are so bad? It's one of my most favorite panfish to eat.
Can someone explain why you don't want them in your pond?


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## fishhead

They overpopulate and stunt in small ponds. Aggressive fishing might prevent that but you'd have to be prepared to keep 3" fish.

There may be someone producing triploid crappies somewhere. Those wouldn't spawn successfully and not overpopulate the pond.


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## Ack226

It sounds like you had a fish kill due to low-oxygen water from the bottom suddenly rising up and mixing with the high-oxygen water from the top. This happens sometimes when the temperature changes. It's probably made worse by the fact that you have 25 foot deep areas in your pond. The fish likely don't ever go below 10 feet or so, and the extra depth just holds stagnant low-oxygen water. 

One possible solution would be to start aerating the pond. Start slowly and carefully though if there are still fish in there that you want to save. Sudden over agressive aeration can worsen the problem of the low-oxygen water from the bottom turning over before it begins to make things better. You might want to take this opportunity to kill off the rest of the pond and start over as some here have suggested. You'll likely never get rid of all the crappie without a total fish kill, and they'll almost certainly continue to overproduce and stunt a pond this small.

You might want to get help and second opinions from the forum at http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php . It's a great resource and full of extremely knowledgeable people. 

For your specific problems, you might want to search that forum for "turnover" and "oxygen crash". Also search for "crappie" for more information about why crappie are generally a bad idea in smaller ponds. Good luck!


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## Natural Beauty Farm

If you pour 5 gal buckets of "chipped" fish into a pond, I'd say the ammonia levels would spike and kill off the fish.


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## oldasrocks

I had an aerator pump going for a time till it died. I have no idea of what is left in there. We are so dry here it may soon dry up anyway.

I tested for ammonia, nitrogen, phosperous, and PH. All within acceptable levels or lower.


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## big rockpile

poppy said:


> Watch the hybrid bluegills too. A small percentage of them will multiply and the offspring will be a totally different fish, depending on what they were crossed with to create the hybrid. They got bad in one of my ponds and I had to call the state fish biologist to find out what they were. They were some type of small sunfish with orange coloring in their fins and tails. They were fat as butterballs but never got much over 3 inches long.


Yea we found this out stocked with Hybrid Bluegill thinking they wouldn't spawn now have bunch of little ones.Was told not to stock Bass for this reason. :shrug:

big rockpile


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## braggscowboy

Around my part of the country, they like to have the bluegill and perch. Keep trotlines and pole lines and jugs set with them. Never ending bait. Here in eastern Okla., some of the best flathead and blue bait you can get for lines. Another good idea, is a large trap or two baited with cottonseed cake (old timers used) or probably hog pellets would be good for bluegill. ( would work better in cheese cloth).


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