# Looking Into The Future......



## crehberg (Mar 16, 2008)

As I sit at this computer right now, I am on my LAST fall break from high school. That's right, this upcoming May I will be graduating from the local high school, which is both good and bad. Yes, I am happy, but at the same time, I am kind of worried.

I know already that one day I would LOVE to be self-employed, particularly in an agriculture related field, preferably something horticulture related. My problem is trying to figure out what my options are. It seems like everything I look at requires a huge amount of start up capital, which seems out of reach. If it doesn't require a huge amount of start up capital, it seems to require a large skill set that I am unsure of where to learn. The current economic situation just seems to add to the problem.

Maybe I ought to get to the point before I confuse everybody. If you were to have to start all over today, from scratch, with nothing, in an agriculture related field (even if not horticulture related), where would you start? Would you work for somebody else first (I would think you would), and if so, who and in what capacity? What type of skill sets do you think are important to know? Would it be advantageous to get a college degree? If so, and you were in my shoes, would you go for something like a Diversified Agriculture Degree with a concentration in Horticulture/Plant Science or would you start right out with a specialty degree (or maybe even just a basic Business Management Degree)? I know...it's an open question with many answers...but that's what I'm looking for. If you have ANY experience, please share. I would love to hear it.

Thanks in advance,

Cody


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I'd start out with an Associates Degree in Business so that you will know basic accounting and economics.

Then, you can take courses as necessary in your field.

Yes, you are absolutely right that you need on the job experience. You can look for a job in your field, try out different areas, and learn what you like doing the best. Many folks I know earned a degree and then discovered they *hated* the field they were trained it.

Starting up as a high school graduate with your own business would be extremely difficult, as you said, due to the costs and your lack of experience. 

Put in a few years of learning on the job, keep an eye open for an opportunity, then *jump* on it!


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## EarthSheltered (May 9, 2008)

I would try to find work in an ag related field, take night classes if you have to work full time, day classes if you dont, and if you have the free time, do some ag work on your own (design gardens, plant market garden produce, help others get the most out of gardening, start a farm sitting business). 

There is an interesting book, Cash from Square Foot Gardening by Mel Barthlomew. I'm not advocating that is exactly what you have to do, but he puts the principles of successful ag business out there.

Keep close track of what sells, and what doesn't. Too many people just wing it, hoping to make a profit.

Think outside the box. Who knew ten years ago organic foods would see such a resurgence? (excepting those here of course )

Be willing to be flexible. Just because it hasn't been done that way before, doesn't mean it can't be done. Use your imagination. Invent the newest 'Velcro' of your generation :cowboy:

Be willing to have a few lean years, using a lot of sweat equity.


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## crehberg (Mar 16, 2008)

Rose, great advise. I appreciate it.

EarthSheltered, also some great advise, but I do have a few questions.



> take night classes if you have to work full time, day classes if you dont,


Ok, here's a question. If it were you, would you go to school full-time, but have to have student loans (because the way it's looking, I'm going to have to) or work full-time, but not get your degree as fast? (A side note: If I go to school full time, I am covered by my parents insurance, which is decent, until I'm 24. If I decide to go to work, I'm on my own. Should that weigh into my decision?)



> Who knew ten years ago organic foods would see such a resurgence?


Not really exactly related, but do you think organic foods will continue to see a growing resurgence, or will they level off with the continuing worsening economy? (I'm talking about those grown for sale, not for the use of your own family)



> Be willing to have a few lean years


Is there anything OTHER than a lean year?    

Thanks again folks. Looking foward to hearing some more!

Cody


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

To those of us who are a bit older (and hopefully wiser) health insurance is a BIG DEAL. I'd be tempted to stay in school so you can have health insurance.

However, I'm not fond of student loans or debt in general.

At age 18, with no experience, is there an ag related job with health insurance?

You're facing a tough decision.


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## EarthSheltered (May 9, 2008)

I would go to school full time, if at all possible. I'm sure you know already about Work-study programs, conflict scheduling, etc. (Basically your school will try to bunch your classes if at all possible, so you can hold a full time job) as well as grants, loans, etc. If Mom and Dad are willing to help, great. Even being covered by their insurance is a big help. I would be very careful about which college I picked, because while its nice to have say STANFORD on your diploma, you might get a comparable education from your in state university. There are many Uni's known for Ag, Iowa State is one. Take any and all Business courses offered, you will need them no matter what business you end up in. 

Can a person work full time and attend school full time as well? Possibly. Depends on travel time, how much sleep you need, can you do some of your course work while employed (if you work 7pm to 11pm at the local Turkey Hill, you will probably have some study time) Sometimes it is possible to find living accommodations near campus with an elderly person who wants to make a little money, but really needs a strong back for chores, a mutually beneficial arrangement. They often love to have someone to cook for 

I don't think its the economy so much that is causing most of the 'back to organic' surge, I think its the awareness of the vulnerability of our food sources. We did not have most of these major outbreaks until we started importing our vegetables (and some meats) from countries with less quality controls then we have. Everyone wants cheap food, but not if they are going to die for it. There is also a growing amount of people who HAVE to eat organic because of health issues, my sister is one. She is gluten intolerant, and has allergy issues as well. There is a growing groundswell of parents who believe preservatives and additives are responsible for their children's behavior, allergies, and general ill health. 

You should live like every year is a lean year, even when its not. That is how Millionaires are made. At least that is what I read, not being on myself


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## chris30523 (Jun 11, 2005)

Check out North Georgia Tech. They have degree programs in horticulture and buisness they were looking into starting an aquaculture program also. They have dormitories and are not too expensive. If you find something you like let me know and I might be able to help you out with some part time work. I would go to school full time and not drag it out.There are lots of kids who go to school full time and work a few hours a week.Check out the grant programs.Surely there is something out there to help out some.It helps to get a feel for a job to start out working for someone else. Start slow and work up to being self employed.


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## fransean (Dec 21, 2002)

Anther thing to think about if financing is an issue - it was here - is that some employers pay tuition reimbursement. 
Now if you could get some kind of job in horitculture/agriculture that is full time with insurance and tuition reimbursement that may take longer to graduate but you would have less debt coming out the other end.

Good Luck
Bev


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## halfpint (Jan 24, 2005)

Cody;
I see you are in Georgia, are you eligible for the Hope scholarship? If so, then I would definitely go to school, but try to get summer jobs or part time jobs in horticulture/agriculture.

Dawn


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

crehberg said:


> Ok, here's a question. If it were you, would you go to school full-time, but have to have student loans (because the way it's looking, I'm going to have to) or work full-time, but not get your degree as fast? (A side note: If I go to school full time, I am covered by my parents insurance, which is decent, until I'm 24. If I decide to go to work, I'm on my own. Should that weigh into my decision?)


There is nothing, anywhere, that would convince me that student loans are a good thing.

Nothing.

DH and I got through Uni with no debt, unlike 90% of our peers. By the time we were thirty-seven we were MORTGAGE FREE, while most of those same peers were JUST finishing off paying off student loans.

And with the economy in the situation it's in, and the situation it appears to be heading for, there is no amount of anything that is worth going into that much debt for. Take classes as you can afford them. Work two jobs, live at home (while all your buddies are moving out and paying astronomical amounts of rent), eat cheap -- beans and rice kind of cheap -- study hard for a degree in a field that actually has jobs associated with it (a friend of ours went into debt to the tune of $100K for a degree in Asian Pacific studies. He thought it would be cool, and he might get to go to Hawaii  )

Read, watch the news, and read newsfeeds from other countries (to get a world perspective). Gear your class choices to things that might actually matter in ten year's time when the economy still hasn't recovered. Acquire a skillset that is in demand through practical work experience. Those two jobs you'll be working to put yourself through school without debt? Make sure at least one of them is applicable to what you eventually want to do with your life -- those contacts and the network you develop through them will be very, very valuable in the years to come. Take THAT from someone who has been there.

Most importantly -- THINK. It's what your brain is for -- don't let others feed you a diet of what you SHOULD know -- go looking for what they don't particularly WANT you to know. THAT stuff is what will pay the bills in twenty years.


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## Homesteader at Heart (Aug 11, 2003)

Someone said, "Do what you love and you will never have to work a day in your life."


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Crehberg,

Can you give us a better idea of what you are looking to do in the ag/farm industry?

What are you looking at career wise, or what business ideas are you hoping to start?

Our answers will help you better if we knew a little more....

Clove


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## crehberg (Mar 16, 2008)

Dang, you leave for 20 hours and you've got enough answers to float a boat!!!  

Rose: That's a very good point about the insurance. I don't have any really significant pre-existing condition (I do have sinitus, which requires me to take Rhinocort and Zyrtec), but you never know when something will happen!

EarthSheltered: I'm afraid I require LARGE amounts of sleep, and am still usually tired. I can go to bed at 9:30 PM, wake up at 7:00 AM and still be dog tired. I think I get it from my Dad....he's the same way. The other thing I worry about with trying to do a full time job and go to school full time at the same time is priorities. As much as I love having a full plate, I have the habit of letting one thing run my life. For example, if I screw up a test, I'll think about it 24/7 until I pass the next one. Yes, I know, it's weird, but sometimes it's like my circuits just overload and I can't take the pressure!

Chris, I'm going to go look right after I get through here. Thanks for the tip, I'll try to get back with you ASAP.

Tracy, I appreciate the advice. I wish I could live here at home and be able to get my degree, but that looks like a far-fletched idea. We do have a small university here in town, but they mainly offer Business Management and Nursing degrees. Also, we do have a tech college, which actually has really great programs. The only problem is, the only ag classes focus mainly on the John Deere tractor repair program. As much as I love OLD tractors, I don't think I could work on new ones with all their confounded computer systems.

Clovis, I really want to work in something horticulture related, preferably something to do with roses. If I could get a job with a major distributor/grower, that would be great. Eventually, I would love to start my own rose farm, as we are kind of "isolated" in this area. Even though we are the "City of Roses", every year at the Rose Show we bring in new bushes to sell from......Mississippi. That just seems so wrong!!!


A final note: Just wanted to remind everyone that these are just my "dreams". I'm still open to any suggestions of other careers you find interesting, or anything else that you think would be helpful.

Thanks again,

Cody


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Cody,

I am going to suggest getting a degree.

The world that we live in today requires a degree for most careers. As ag/hort becomes more scientific and technical, the emphasis continues to grow.

My BIL is a crop consultant. The difference between him and someone else that knows the same stuff is a master's degree. 

BIL just turned down a job with a seed company for $90,000 a year as a seed consultant. Included insurance and $40,000 truck for business and personal use, with a gas card. He said he could make more doing his own thing, and is in his 2nd yr of business on his own.

Simply said, the money and good jobs are going to require a degree.

I am NOT going to advise big debt for school. I am sick of hearing about kids that are running up $125,000 in debt for a college degree, just to earn a $26,000 a year.

Find yourself a good state university, and *do not borrow one dime more than you actually have to.* 

A degree will open doors for you for the rest of your life, and is something no one can take away from you.

Let's say that in 16 years, the local school needs to hire an ag/hort teacher or director. They are not even going to talk to you without a degree. Same goes for tons and tons of other jobs. Not going to even consider you without a degree.

It used to be that a degree was the ticket for success. Today, a degree is required for many entry level jobs.

Now, onto the rose farming:

If you really have an interest in roses, start doing it today. It does not matter if you start with 10 plants, planted in your backyard.

I strongly believe that the strongest businesses are started with cash, and when the business are grown as you can afford to pay in cash as you reinvest.

I would always tell you to start small, pay cash as you go to expand your business.

I would much rather see you rent 1/2 acre and pay cash for a used Farmall H, and use a cobbled up greenhouse built from scavenged windows versus buying $100,000 plot with a $50,000 greenhouse and a new $20,000 JD tractor on credit.

Just think, if you start now, and work roses as a hobby, you will have 4 years experience when you graduate college!

Clove


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

Cody,

I'd recommend getting the basic classes out of the way in the first two years. During that time, see if you can get a job in horticulture and be sure you love it enough to do for 40 years. By the time you hit your junior year, you should be ready to take classes specific to the field you choose.
Think about whether your eventual degree will let you live anywhere or limit you to big cities only. How will that fit in with your dreams?
There are numerous scholarships and grants and internships out there. Talk to your school counselor (SOON!!!!) about what's available. The more money you get for free, the less debt you incur and the closer you are to having your own business.
Stay loose. Be open to the fact that your direction may stay the same or may change a half dozen times. That's okay and it's normal.
Good luck to you!


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## crehberg (Mar 16, 2008)

Clove, I'm actually working on that right now. This is my 2nd year working as Head Rosarian at my high school, and I hope to be able to purchase some "starter" bushes through the school account at some point before I graduate. Actually, you just gave me an idea. I've got an old quail pen that would be just perfect to make a greenhouse out of. Now all I've got to do is figure out what would be the best cover material!

Madame, I'm kind of at a standstill on the scholarship stuff. Until I get the chance to fill out the FASFA, I don't know where I stand on that situation. And yes, I do plan to stay loose. I mean, who knows, maybe I'll grow organic food instead??

Thanks to everyone!!!

Cody


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## Guest123 (Oct 10, 2006)

Sometimes, if you are not sure about college, you are better off to work for someone in the field you wish to go into and learn from them. You could save money that you would have spent on tuition and put it towards your business start-up. Some trades can be best learned by actually doing the work. Community colleges offer courses in business management, book keeping, marketing, and other business topics that you could take as you have time. If you are interested in horticulture, start a lawn care business, and take care of peoples lawn, schrubs, and flowers and make good money while you learn. Start with used equipment and start your business for little $$$. I collect grass clippings and leaves and bring home to improve soil for my market garden. Get certified through your state to apply chemicals to treat lawns, and you will also be able to use this skill and knowledge to treat greenhouse rosebushes. You can make money while learning and building your business, be prepared to work hard, try to keep debt free so all resources can go to business. Or go to college and get a degree, and still end up working for someone at the beginning, best of luck.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Cody,

Great idea about the quail pen! You can always post questions on the gardening forums or on the HT forums for the best material to use.

I think over time you will find that you might need a second source of income until you get up and running with the roses. That might mean growing a few organic crops, or working for a landscaper in the off season.

I would prefer to see you get a degree first, and work roses on the side until you graduate.

There are 2 things I say that it is okay to become indebted. One is for education, within reason like I posted above, and the other is for a home loan, also in reason.

The degree will pay off in spades, and give you opportunity in life.

I don't want you to wake up when you are 40, which will happen much sooner than you think, and be limited to working jobs that don't pay enough.

Clove


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Cory,
I just went to ed-reference.us

They have the ag/hort Georgia schools listed, with some cool programs!!!!!!!

Clove


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## Guest123 (Oct 10, 2006)

Clovis makes a good point and is the most valid reason for a good education, a good paying job. The ideas I gave earlier are for people that may not be committed to four years of college, or maybe not suited academically for a college education. People CAN make good money running their own business, but it rarely happens quickly. I was a teacher for 18 years, building my business in the summer when I had the most time. I didn't make a lot teaching, but at least I knew where the house payment was coming from each month. In business, sometimes you have periods of low or no cash flow, so it is nice to have the safety net of "real job" while starting your business.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Regardless of what you choose to do long term you can start NOW!
Look at all of the competion.
Look at all of the suppliers.
Look at all of the consumers..ie restaurants, natural food stores etc..
Find a hole and fill it. Grow, make, produce what they need.
As an example- I started growing culinary herbs and greens for a couple of local restaurants back in the day. I loved seeing "my" label and name on the menu. Ask for it!
Market yourself like crazy.
Find the best time to talk to the chefs or managers. Bring samples, a price list (be flexible) and a business card.
Even though it wasn't much money, it was money and you can sink every bit into the bigger dream!
Even if you do not want to grow greens or make hand cream or whatever.. it is a foot in the door and great practice.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I got MS, and so I never DID get my business off the ground! So, ttake what I say with a grain of salt.

Do you have any farmers markets in your area, and when do they open? You live in Georgia, can you start selling before school gets out?

I applied for work at a local nursery in the Fall, and they suggested that I apply again in the spring, as they were starting to lay people off. Winter is a slow time for nurseries in Kansas! 

They then asked about sales experience. I told them that, no, I had not worked in stores and that I would have to be trained on the cash register because I had only been selling at farmers markets. How long? 3 years. Why? Because I wanted to, it was fun.

His voice CHANGED then, and he suggested that I COME BACK and apply the next spring! 

They LIKE people who can deal with customers! And, I might have learned a good deal about the plant business bu working there!


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## cwgrl23 (Feb 19, 2004)

Education, Education, Education!!!!! You NEED a degree of some kind. An Associates Degree at the minimum!!!!! I have a 1 yr DIPLOMA in Office Technology. What that means is I took all the practical hands on knowledge, and not any of the general courses. Without that Assoiciates, even though I have over 10 yrs of experience in the field, I can't get a job in it. As it has been over 10 yrs since I went to college, none of my credits count! If I want to get an Associates now, I will have to start from scratch!

My brother hated school with a capital H! Never went to college. Now he is in his early 30s stuck working for a rancher. He makes ok money but has no benefits and puts in about 50 hrs a week in the slow times and 80-90 hrs a week in the busy times. Yes, you can live on 3 hrs of sleep if you have too! The only other thing he is qualified to do is drive truck, which also doesn't pay much and little to no benefits! 

If I was you, I would work as much as I can now and over the summer and than go to school and get your associates! You can always take night classes or extra classes while working to get your Bacholers if that is what you want.

I would also have your thyroid levels checked and have a vitamin panel done! I too felt like you. I could sleep 20 hrs out of a 24 hr period and still be tired! Turns out my thyroid doesn't like to work full time so it needed some help. I was also very very very low on vitamin D. (Like only 1/3 of what the drs like to see your levels at) Also look at taking a B vitamin complex. You might be a bit low there as well! I know it helps me feel more awake without getting a buzz off of energy drinks.

My husband owns his own business as well. You will have an easy time convincing clients your are the person for the job, if you have that piece of paper that says you know what you are talking about!

Anyway, just my two cents. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions!

Carrie in SD


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

From my own experiences and that of people I have known well (most of it horse related)

A degree, if you have little "hands on" experience will help. Depending on where your interests lie, you can sometimes figure out what kind of degree will be the most useful.

Many students graduate with a degree in "equine studies". My experience is that those who are very competent with horses and have a lot of horse experience are those that are hired first in most cases ... but with everything else equal, the one that gets the best jobs are also the ones who have abilities/secondary education in things like accounting, advertising, website design and/or desktop publishing. 

If you can offer additional skills that can benefit the employer ... things they know they need but aren't able to do themselves ... you will have a better chance for employment.


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## BRYAN (Jul 5, 2008)

I earned a B.S. in Agriculture and highly recommend you get yours. The future of agriculture with its increased regulation and tight profit margins will be challenging. Add the diversity that success will demand and you will be at a disadvantage unless you take the time to learn. Learning is not confined to the class, but it can give you a great foundation on which to build knowledge. My own education was largely paid for by the GI Bill, my wife and I. We made it with very little debt and regretted even that little bit. Study the niche markets and small farm models closely because some of the most successful persons in agriculture today are not large scale farms like I studied in college. I recommend a book called "How to Make $100,000 a Year Farming 25 Acres" by a PhD from Tuskegee (can't remember his name)and is no doubt out of print. Its worth reading if you can find it in the library. Regardless of the path you choose going forward, don't let the dream die. Good luck.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The author is Booker T. Whatley. Do a search on the author's name, and you will find several used copies out there. Expect to pay over $80.


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## crehberg (Mar 16, 2008)

Sorry guys, I lost this thread a while back and haven't had time to look for it between preparing for competitions and trying to get everything in order for the second nine weeks of school to end. I just wanted to thank everyone for their input, and to tell you all that I am reviewing some different options as we speak. I do know as of right now that I have been accepted to Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College for Fall '09 (as long as I don't flunk out this last semester ) in their Diversified Agricultural program, but I don't know if that is what I really want. Most of my teachers seem to be siding with getting a general business degree, so I've been looking at that too. I just don't know. I've gotta mull these things over here and see what I think will be the best choice. I do know one thing though....I got the the opportunity to see Swainsboro Tech....man that place is NICE. I just wish it was closer...I think I've just about decided that's too far away for me to go.



> I would also have your thyroid levels checked and have a vitamin panel done! I too felt like you. I could sleep 20 hrs out of a 24 hr period and still be tired! Turns out my thyroid doesn't like to work full time so it needed some help. I was also very very very low on vitamin D. (Like only 1/3 of what the drs like to see your levels at) Also look at taking a B vitamin complex. You might be a bit low there as well! I know it helps me feel more awake without getting a buzz off of energy drinks.


Thanks for the advice Carrie. I'm supposed to be having my bi-annual physical sometime here in the near future, and I'll make sure to have a chat with my physician about the situation.


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