# 2 acres, allergic to dogs, should we think lgd?



## gabbyraja (Feb 27, 2012)

First, we are buying a house. We're not even there yet, but I'm trying to plan, plan, plan. This summer/fall we will be getting 3 bred ewes, chickens and ducks, and possibly more animals in the future (like heritage breed hogs, maybe a yearly calf, etc.). I don't know enough about the area to know if there are coyotes, ferral dogs and such, but I'm just assuming so, since they are somewhat common in the entire area, overall. I do not plan to confine the animals at night, so I've been thinking about LGs. I had lamas and mini horses once. I would NEVER get llamas again (they were a really big PIMA). The mini horses were a joy, but I'm not sure they actually did anything as LGs. I mean, in the 6 months or so we had the goats and sheep we never lost one to a predator, but it's possible there was never a predator around...? Other than the raccoons that got in our coop and massacred our chickens, but I digress.

Now, I generally don't love dogs. I don't like barking, dog hair, dog smell, etc. Also, I and my children are allergic to dogs. Not like we break out in hives if we touch them, but get itchy eyes and runny nose when they live in our house. I had a poodle and shih tzu that I actually liked, but we weren't even able to live with them comfortably. 

However, from what I understand, LGDs aren't pets. They don't come in your house, they don't shed on your stuff, and they are only _supposed_ to bark when there is a threat. So, that would be a positive. And dh and the kids would get the dog they constantly wish they could have without too much negative effect.

However again, I don't really know if we NEED protection on such a small bit of land (where the animals are fairly close to the house, really). We feed raw, so that would be a bit of an expense to keep a PET. I'm no longer interested in pets. Animals on my property work.

In addition, there is one rather close neighbor. Probably 1-2 acres between us and them. How do you have a dog living with the sheep and unsupervised, but also be sure that it's not running off, getting into their yard, scaring them or possibly even biting someone? I don't plan to mistreat my dog and make him a biter, surely, but animals are animals and things can happen...

I like the idea of a dog roaming the property line and keeping out anything we want out, but somehow I doubt that's how it really works. Do we want an LGD? And if not, do we want some other kind of LG instead? An alarmer/alerter would work just fine, since we'd probably hear any commotion and investigate, being so close to the animals. Would love your suggestions.


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## gabbyraja (Feb 27, 2012)

Oops, forgot to mention, in case it makes a difference, I plan to use portable electric fencing to rotationally graze the sheep. I will move outward from the central location (containing the run-in/shed and water station) in pie-slice shaped rows, moving in a half circle then back to the first row again. Hope that makes sense.


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## lexa (Mar 30, 2012)

I will answer on general dog stuff, as I am learning about logistics of Livestock Guarding Dog", however, I have experince with dogs both living inside and outside. I have allergies too, and I choose to take meds to be able to work with dogs. What I know, thought, don't get an LGD untill you have your livestock and see a clear need to have one.

_*However, from what I understand, LGDs aren't pets. They don't come in your house, they don't shed on your stuff, and they are only supposed to bark when there is a threat. So, that would be a positive. And dh and the kids would get the dog they constantly wish they could have without too much negative effect.
*_

They will bark when they think there is possible threat. Any little noise can set them off along with real threat. On a small acrage like yours they might protect their territory from neighbors and bark at them every time they see them or their dogs outside.

LGDs are not pets, but you would need to interact with them. They need basic training, grooming and vetting to make a dog that you can live with comfortably. They need to be socialized, which means that you would need to take them out from your property. Even smooth coated ones will shed and get their hair onto your clothes and car. Also, double coated dogs, unlike healthy poodles and shih tzus, they have more rapid hair and skin regeneration rate and produce more allergy causing dander and skin oils. So if your kids are allergic they might not be able to interact with the dog like they want to. I can live and hug with poodles and terriers that are bathed weekly without having issues, someones LDG causes me to start itching. To add t this, your kids might be allergic to other things like hay, pollen, and other animals, Your dog will have those allergens in their coat. 
I would suggest that if you have not done so, go to the farm with LGD, interact with it and see how your family reacts to it. 
If you are allergic to dogs, you would need to take your dog to the groomer at least twice a year to take care of its coat, which can cost anywhere from 50-200 dollars depending on your location, groomer and dogs condition.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

I really don't think you'd be happy with a LGD since so many things about dogs bother you. They do bark, sometimes they bark a LOT. They hear sounds at night and let you know that they heard something. This usually gets better as they get older, but with some breeds (Great Pyrenees especially), barking is part of their guarding style. Most of those dogs bark off and on all night. Also you need to interact with a LGD more than you think. They need basic training and socialization, they need brushing in the spring, they need to be trained how to be a good LGD. They also dig really big holes at times and challange fences. And really, with only 2 acres, you probably can get by nicely with good electric perimeter fences. LGDs can be a lot of work. I don't mind because I love dogs. But if you don't really care for dogs to begin with, I don't see this working out too well for you. If you want a dog to warn you of predators, what about getting a general farm dog that does not live with the stock but lives outside and can bark to alert you of potential problems.


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## gabbyraja (Feb 27, 2012)

Yeah, that's hat I was thinking, too. So, would one of the more "hypoallergenic" breeds make a good outside dog? I really loved how darn smart and awesome my poodle was. Would a standard make a good outside dog? I can't imagine my toy EVER being more than a few inches from me (one of her more annoying traits, actually, but also endearing), so I'm not sure standards would stay outside. Portugese water dog? Goldendoodle? All of those breeds are so expensive... Not something you're likely to find in a rescue, as I've looked in the past. And then there's still the question of whether it is ever allowed anywhere to have a dog running loose. I have lived in the city a long time, but even in the country as a kid it as NOT cool when our dog would get loose. We'd always have to track him down and bring him back, and he was chained. I don't love chaining dogs outside...


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## lexa (Mar 30, 2012)

No, standard would not make a good outside dog. They are as human oriented as toys and would be miserable and get in trouble if kept outside.


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## mrs whodunit (Feb 3, 2012)

If you don't like/love dogs I wouldn't get one.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Use the money for a dog to build a good fence that will keep predators out.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

gabbyraja said:


> Yeah, that's hat I was thinking, too. So, would one of the more "hypoallergenic" breeds make a good outside dog? I really loved how darn smart and awesome my poodle was. Would a standard make a good outside dog? I can't imagine my toy EVER being more than a few inches from me (one of her more annoying traits, actually, but also endearing), so I'm not sure standards would stay outside. Portugese water dog? Goldendoodle? All of those breeds are so expensive... Not something you're likely to find in a rescue, as I've looked in the past. And then there's still the question of whether it is ever allowed anywhere to have a dog running loose. I have lived in the city a long time, but even in the country as a kid it as NOT cool when our dog would get loose. We'd always have to track him down and bring him back, and he was chained. I don't love chaining dogs outside...


No....you will need a fence if you are going to have a dog. It is highly unfair to your neighbors to let your dog run free. It's also very unfair to the dog because you are subjecting him to getting hit by cars or being shot by neighbors who don't appreciate him chasing their livestock. Allowing your dog to run free is also illegal in many areas. Honestly, since you really don't like dogs and are allergic, Id have to say don't get a dog at all. It's not fair to the dog to be expected to protect the home of someone who really does not even like him or interact with him. Dogs bond with us and want love in return. Spend your money on good fencing and electric wire as added protection against predators. 2 Acres is small...you really can protect that on your own.


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## sunflower-n-ks (Aug 7, 2006)

BarbadosSheep said:


> No....you will need a fence if you are going to have a dog. It is highly unfair to your neighbors to let your dog run free. It's also very unfair to the dog because you are subjecting him to getting hit by cars or being shot by neighbors who don't appreciate him chasing their livestock. Allowing your dog to run free is also illegal in many areas. Honestly, since you really don't like dogs and are allergic, Id have to say don't get a dog at all. It's not fair to the dog to be expected to protect the home of someone who really does not even like him or interact with him. Dogs bond with us and want love in return. Spend your money on good fencing and electric wire as added protection against predators. 2 Acres is small...you really can protect that on your own.


Please listen to these very wise words. Dogs loose in the country cause many problems and quite often the problems are solved with lead.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

Your allergies alone tell me no. Coupled with 2 acres which depending on breed is too small and it is also too close to your house to ignore the barking. My one boy thinks everything is a threat if it moves and he can bark to the point I wonder how he is getting any air  

You are going to have to fence the property anyway, you cannot have all your animals wander around, your neighbors will be pretty angry if the sheep ate all their new grass, the chickens destroyed their tomato plants etc. Good fences make good neighbors. 

Fence well, if you have issues down the line maybe a mini Donkey would be the answer. 

LGD are a whole different kind of animal then a Poodle and Shih Tzu and if raised incorrectly are more of a menace then a purse dog.


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## gabbyraja (Feb 27, 2012)

Ok, dogs are out. Can you tell me more about the mini donkey or other options that live well right along with the sheep and eat the same food? Are mini horses good options as I'd been told before? I have some little girls that would be just HEARTBROKEN at HAVING to get a mini horse.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

A mini donkey would be a great option for your small homestead. They do create a fuss if something strange is about, but on the bad side they aren't going to hunt like a dog might. Our mini donkey is very good with the sheep, even lambs and is such a sweet personality. We also have a mini horse and even though is is fun and potentially a deterrent, he is rotten with the sheep in the winter when feeding hay. He likes to kick at them some when eating which isn't good with pregnant ewes. I haven't noticed this behavior in the donkeys I've had. I doubt the donkey would be effective for predators like ***** , weasels, and opossums. Even with the donkey be prepared to back up predator control with electric fence. There's some electronet especially made for poultry out there too which would be a good deterrent.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Just don't get a dog. You are not a dog person. It would be hard for both you and the dog. And that isn't fair to the dog at all.


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

a lot of animals for only 2 acres


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Your sheep will need a shelter of some sort, more to get out of the sun than the snow.

I have two mini jennets I could sell you. They are clicker trained. When there is a threat, such as a dog, the sheep all bunch up behind the two donkeys, even the rams. The donkeys will stare down the threat and will bite and kick. BUT if they can't scare the threat away, or stomp it to death, they will run away. They are not capable of taking down a coyote or large dog like a dog could, and they aren't going to run after the threat very far. And, you can't just toss them in with the sheep, they will expect interaction in the form of conversation, a ride, grooming. You'll need a little cart so they can take you up and down the road.


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## CornerstoneAcre (Mar 10, 2011)

lexa said:


> They will bark when they think there is possible threat. Any little noise can set them off along with real threat. On a small acrage like yours they might protect their territory from neighbors and bark at them every time they see them or their dogs outside.


Yep, I'm on two acres and I have TWO pyrenees and my male barks during the day at the neighbors - mowing, playing with their dog, partying,etc). However if I go outside and explain to him (yeah, I tell him the whole story LOL) that everything is okay he's fine. I'm guessing he just goes by tone and that I'm the Alpha and if I"M not worried he shouldn't be. At night? He barks A LOT!!



tom j said:


> a lot of animals for only 2 acres



I have the following on a very well managed two acres:
my home, our home business (a welding shop), a small orchard, a large herb garden, a medium size vegetable garden AND 20 meat goats, 3 horses (2 are drafts), a breeding pair of Asian Heirloom Hogs, 30 chickens, 2 Great Pyrenees, 2 barn cats, 2 house dogs and two house cats. The horses are mainly on a dry lot with a pasture they are turned out on periodically, the pigs are rotated on pasture and the goats are always on pasture.

I agree that a LGD is probably NOT for the OP. From the tone of the original post, both dog and owners will be very unhappy.

We choose to get two for our small acreage as we have a large and brave coyote population. We have EXCELLENT fencing with hotwires added to the outside at three levels and that may have been adequate. The LGD are just added peace of mind for us.....and they are part of our family just like the rest of the critters!!


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