# Would you bug out COMMUNITY or SOLO???



## CMG_CEO (Mar 24, 2015)

I have a question for you all as this is something I'm interested in. If STUFF hit the fan and you needed to bail, would you generally PREFER TO:

a) Take a bug out bag and bounce into the woods solo/family, or

b) Be a part of a cross-functional community that you did not know ahead of time, but had some basic communication with, or

c) Be a very tight knit family group that may not have the talents as the broader group, but has a lot of built in trust in that you know everyone personally with a risk they all may not get there.

What would be the best situation to survive in a true STUFF hits the fan scenario, keeping in mind people may have kids and others may be single, just an overall plan. 

. . . and why???


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I will play along, being no one else seems to want to. 
a) A single person running around in the woods will be fine short term, but probably not long term. There was a reason the early mountain men would normally spend their winters with the Indian tribes as a guest. An individual will have a tough time collecting provisions and shelter for long term needs consistently year round. A nomadic lifestyle provides very little stability.
b)Being part of a large community would be difficult socially. Yes a large structured group could provide the best for the physical needs and related assets, but politically and socially would be difficult to maintain without an almost military structured form of governance. This would still be open to a breakdown under what will be stressful situations. This setup would also provide a very big target and signature for anyone with ill intent.
c)A small family group in my mind would be the best solution. Enough people to provide for each other and security, but enough connections to maintain civility in stressful situations, not because a of established rule, but because of the connection and compassion for a family fellow family member. These would not necessarily need to be blood related family as I have seen many unrelated people have closer relationships than actual blood relatives. Like minded people would be the key, preferably that had formed a relationship before it all went south.

The Bible is probably one of the best prepping books ever written. Discretion, a clear set of rules for moral conduct and putting the needs of others before yours, but taking care of your own family first, before attempting to reach out to others. There are many other lessons to be learned, but we certainly do not have the space here to cover them all, it took the writers a whole book to cover it all!

Keep in mind these discussions are just intellectual exercises. Intellect without a practiced skill set will not do a person much good in a real situation. Lots of STUFF will not do a person any good if they wait until they need it, before they learn to use it. If you are not living the life now, you will probably not live life very well then.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Me and my family preferably. Our bug out place is our home, we are in a good spot that way. BUT. I do worry that my extended family, with next to no skills, will come running to us, and beg to be saved. They know about my family's skills and survival know how. They know of the game, the stocked shelves, the chickens, the sheep, etc.

A family of six, or a family of 30. I choose six, even if it does sound harsh. I guess some of the extendeds would be useful in that they could cut wood if shown how. lol


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Solo.
The chances of finding a community that would be worth a darn and not a total disaster/danger are too slim.
Communities take time to work properly. Who does what. Who listens to whom etc..
And in this day and age there would be too many egos, too many leaders etc..

Safer and more efficient on our own.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

That's a loaded question, comes down to where you are or go if SHTF. 

I'll pick option D. You didn't seem to offer the option of having a core group that you are friends/family with that branches out and takes in more people that you don't know today.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Family sizes vary..it can just one person or almost a village.

A group of people with many crossover skills would be better we what I face.
Skills set matter a lot. As well as personalities. Self center persons would have to set up or join up to a group for which one rules and the others are workers...There would be hostilities a instability. Not for me

We went over night from one lifestyle... to homeless squatting in buildings on the beach set up for live in the summer for commercial setting fishermen. This was my father in laws summer operation set up.....so really not squatting but it sure felt like it.

Winter arrived early and the first day I got there and saw what we had to do was overwhelming.

Twelve to twenty people not counting small children what are willing to work hard and have tools should have turned around our lives much quicker.

Every location is different.

Every one should learns multiple skills.

I can't bug out with out help my husband has many health issues a brain aneurysm, back problems are the major deals...he will due quickly and I too. Our son has skills and basic tools....he can work hard... and he knows priorities.

The church's here are family they have learned to work as a cohesive group of 80 plus. Here that would be the way.

A message and first gather the week and stranded people. That would be the only way. Plan now.


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## Wylie Kyote (Dec 1, 2009)

In a SHTF scenario it would be my wife, son and I. There is a place just north of us that is secluded, has plenty of fresh water and some fish and crustacean's
in the creeks. For the past 15 or so months I have been putting together the essential items I believe we will need for the long term when or if that time comes. My next purchase will be a 1964 to '68 Volkswagen vehicle which doesn't have electronic ignition.

Wylie


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## sniper69 (Sep 23, 2007)

Depending on the SHTF situation will determine if I have to bug out or if I can stay where I'm at and bug-in. With that said I have several places (in many different directions) that my family and I can go (and have open invites for) if the need to bug out arises - but then there are the logistics of moving supplies, etc. If at all possible, I would rather be in a small group situation than solo - but then that is me.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

A tsunami....which we really do face would cause me to leave a fire I would think about it I did a lot to be safe of one.. to the point the my place has been selected to be a command station for one near by.


Location location. Water right here and multi driveway built to support a fire truck wide to and the circle large enough for them to move. Gennies on site. Prep checked yearly jobs done for that sprinklers on roof ready to hook in to main line.. most of my plumbing is out doors not in the house such as life.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

I don't recommend bugging out to the woods for long term survival (say, to escape a plague or because the grid utterly failed and isn't going to come back soon) unless you already own property in those woods. 

In any national forest or public land, with few exceptions, there are generally private inholdings of land and locals who consider the forest "theirs." They'll defend "their" land from strangers in a SHTF scenario. There's very little true wilderness left in the United States. Squatting somewhere remote, building a log cabin, and hunting woodland critters _after _the SHTF is not a viable plan.

Now _short term _survival -- the equivalent of a long camping trip where you bring all your supplies with you -- may be possible in the woods, and depending on the situation, may be feasible and a good decision. 

Earthquake, riot, terrorist nuke, hurricane, flood, and other disasters where you could expect to be able to go home within a few days or weeks ... that's when you might think about taking that extended camping trip. It would likely beat a refugee center. You might be hungry for a hot meal and desperate for a shower at the end of two weeks in the woods, but that sounds like most of the camping trips I've gone on in my life. 

Your mileage may vary, though, particularly with three small children. How many cases of diapers can you fit in the trunk of a car? LOL. 

As far as who you bug out with -- I would say take your family and a few close friends who can back you up. You want people you can trust to have your back, but not so many that leadership squabbles become an issue. You need enough adults so that you don't look like an easy target. I would not worry too much about talents or skills, though building up _your _skills is not a bad idea. 

I wouldn't want to plan on being part of a community of people I did not know. Are you thinking of a planned "survivalist" community where you pay big bucks to have a "home" if the world ends? That sounds like a prescription for trouble to me. People who pay for a place in communities like that tend to be on the paranoid side, and paranoid people do not make good allies in a crisis. 

IMHO, what you _might _consider is getting a vacation home in a small, rural, community. Use it for vacations, but stock it with survival supplies too. We have neighbors like that -- they use their home for vacations, but it also has wind and solar power, and a basement stocked floor to ceiling with supplies. (Err ... and don't tell anyone about your supplies. If they showed up in a timely fashion after TSHTF they'd be fine, but once people get hungry, all bets would be off.)


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Discretion will be the key to security and survival. Discretion is awfully hard to maintain once the group reaches certain numbers. 

Cyg, is absolutely correct in that different scenarios will require different plans, there is no one size fits all solution. That is why the military has everything from 9mm pistols to aircraft carriers in their bag of tricks, you just never know from situation to situation which will be more appropriate, better to have options.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

I'm not leaving for anything other than wildfire, chemical spill, or volcanic eruption (and maybe not even for an eruption). I'm set up here to weather most situations and leaving with only what's on my back would be counterproductive. My kids all know the back ways to make it to my place. I know just enough about my nearest neighbors to think there is a good possibility that we would work together well. I'm lucky enough to have folks here who are pretty like minded.

Now, if SHTF and it was a long term situation, eventually I might end up making my way to the family farm where my brother still lives. The entire area there is littered with my relatives, and they have fantastic skill sets. It's 25 miles and a couple rivers away, though, so it might not be possible to get there, depending on circumstances. I could take the rivers for much of the route, as long as I am either set up to portage around or run rapids in a few places. That route would mean showing up without any supplies and I don't want to end up being a burden on my extended family.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Just me and very close family. Like father and my brother. That's it. And only because they are of a like mind. Even family will turn on each other in a real shtf scenario. But since I live in my bugout spot in good in that area. We have at least a year's supply of goods canned with more being canned almost weekly of meat. Have enough medical supplies for a small hospital including full surgical and trauma kits, numbing agents and how to books. So I have no worries. Plus I trust the Lord first abs foremost.


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## FarmChix (Mar 3, 2013)

My answer would be "C". There has to be an established trust. Given the group we have chosen, I am confident we could work through just about anything.


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## FireMaker (Apr 3, 2014)

It makes no matter where you go. The native people of old would move their village every time the food ran out. There is a lot of documentation where food, animals, fish and burnable wood was gone within 50+ miles. It would take a couple of generations for it to rebuild and they return. That is the cost of a group. On the flip side, being solo has the risk of no support. You will not be the only solo or group out there. There will be a need to establish "territory". If groups don't want to cooperate you have conflict.

If deification impales itself on the radial oscillator, it really depends on the specific scenario. What is the level of contamination to food. What contamination in introduced into the ecosystem by decomposing bodies. If you or someone in your group requires medication, how do you get it. Can you preserve food for solo use and build a cache to return to? Is it big enough for a group?

Specific scenarios are difficult enough, but a generic example leaves too many questions.


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## CMG_CEO (Mar 24, 2015)

Interesting. I was thinking an organized group of hundreds of people, but some with no skill sets, others with military background, others with farming, etc. I'm probably in a different scenario as you guys since I have a young family and am not in a super rural area, so I would frankly NEED to be with people that can help me tow the load. I guess if I could hand-pick friends that would be great, but in the absence of that I would go with the big community as long as their were rules/jobs/leadership/etc. I agree with the large target part, but if you plan to bring guns ahead of time and have a security team that is all ex-military then I'm sure there will be easier targets like the small groups. BTW, some good shows I've been watching lately that show different dynamics of a post-apocalyptic time are The Walking Dead and The 100. Should check them out if you have time!


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Watched them both waiting for next season on Netflix

FALLING SKY is another

Start forming a net work
Maybe encourage employees to take a cert class, first aid class.

What have you got in place at work for employees.
Say a storm comes.... driving ban is issued....
Stores and eateries close...

Where are they sleeping , 
You might suggest each have something in their car or stored on site.
Food water batteries, lights first aid supplies, shovels
Microwave will.not working without ele.

Gas grill will a wind up charger ...check out my patriot supply great company used to sponcer here.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

The Walking Dead is fun to watch, for sure.

I generally think in terms of both short term survival due to a localized, temporary SHTF scenario, and long term survival after an apocalyptic event.

Short term SHTF scenarios are common and happen all over the globe, all the time. You generally just need to either hunker down or bug out as is appropriate for the scenario. Survival is contingent on getting out of the way of the disaster, and this is easiest to do with small, fast moving groups. A family of four can pick up and run in seconds; forty people will move like a herd of turtles, comparatively. 

If you look at assorted long term SHTF scenarios in history, the groups that tended to survive were large enough to defend themselves (hundreds or thousands of people), they did so vigorously, and were not defending resources of any particular interest to any larger group but had enough to get by themselves. You just can't survive _long term _with a handful of people unless the people involved are extremely exceptionally knowledgeable and living in a resource-rich environment, or they are willing to accept living like animals. You do need a community. Even people who live alone in very remote areas generally have some sort of community they interact with, and even cave men lived in groups of a few dozen, minimum. 

I am skeptical that you could build a large community of survivors before a SHTF scenario. Survivalists just don't tend to play nicely with others, even other survivalists, and the stress of SHTF will bring the worst out in people. Also, if it's a sudden disaster or a pandemic, some of the community -- perhaps a large chunk of it -- may not show up because they're dead or can't travel. This means you may be missing people with critical skill sets that you'd planned to have on board. 

You're likely to see two successful types of communities post-SHTF:

"Jericho" type communities -- which would be small towns that were never badly affected to start with that stick together, who defend themselves, raise food, and form local trade alliances with similar small towns. The community I live in would likely fall into this category. 

"Walking Dead" type communities -- groups of survivors that didn't know each other before SHTF, but which have now banded together afterwards, formed communities, and are defending themselves and surviving. These would be a lot more likely to be made of compatible individuals than a pre-planned community because this type of community would form organically, and the ratio of wackadoodle-to-sane would be better.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

The dome


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

-stares suspiciously at question.


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## NEfarmgirl (Jan 27, 2009)

It would depend on the situation. We have connected with some people that would be very helpful in an emergency situation because of some of the skills they have, but they could also be a hinderance. We are trying to learn a multitude of skills so we can be sufficient on our own. It would be nice to have a small community of people to work with and have around, but you would run into a lot of problems as well. I look at the community we live in and really it scares me some days. We have the people that aren't even thinking about storing food for a 72 hour situation, the only water they have is what comes out of the tap, no medical supplies, and the ones that have a gun with bullets that think they can bully people if they need to to get what they need.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Being real rural does tend to present up a team
Being the a trip to the doctor is often 200 miles each way
People tend to try to learn lots of skills and master a few.

Welding is important but if everyone specializes in it well not good


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Imho, bugging out is a plan for suicide. You should live where you'd want to have a bugout location. 

A personal SHTF, sure, bugout.... a public, nationwide SHTF? Good luck traveling far, unless you bugout 100 times on the chance of there being a need, just in case the real deal comes along, and you're gone soon enough to actually make it.

One should be with friends and family.... a lone wolf? sounds great, until one actually starts backpacking, and realizes carrying even a weeks worth of food, with bare gear, is tough.... throw in guns and needful tools??? good luck makig it far.

Even if you're the most experienced person around, good luck finding any prepper community that wants to let you in.... the risks outweigh the gains.... I'd think any group that would let strangers in, probably wouldn't last long.


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## CMG_CEO (Mar 24, 2015)

Definitely watched The Dome for a while then at some point got uninterested. I'm very much into all those shows though. The 100 just had the finale and The Walking Dead I binge watch when I can (not much this past week  I think one of the better post-apoc movies is The Road. Haven't seen it in a while but have been meaning to re-watch it.

I agree that L-T you will need a community. I'm more concerned with L-T scenarios just out of sheer interest, but now that I see some of your posts I can't but help to think I'm NOT prepared as well as I should be and am not thinking of potential short term issues. I'm from Toledo Ohio and just a year or so ago they had their main water reservoir tainted due to algae growth, primarily due to run-off of ag chemicals that are reaching high levels. The whole cities water was shut down for nearly a week and there was a run on stores as far north as around where we are, Detroit. Was pretty crazy. I will definitely be rethinking how prepared I am, especially with young kids.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

water...cistern buried with handpump.

a week of loss of any thing should only be a bump in road if basic needs are prepped in correct way....and a bit of restraint of ones self during that time.

no 30 minute showers or 200 gallon hot water bubble bath soaks in tub.....lol


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I do not know how to link on a kindle 
But search this site for making a homemade water filter set up. People showed me and I made one we use it every day.

Harry chickpeas... can educate you about the ceramic filters. That's here too let tsunami of knowledge here. or pm him.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Ham radio a need on my list...


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

For short term scenarios, prepare like you would for an extended camping trip.

I used to actually go camping on a whim, on a regular basis, as time off permitted for work, and would sometimes be gone for weeks. (Had a job where I had six weeks of vacation of year ... dang, I miss that.) I often left for weekends.

I had all my camping gear in totes, and several jerry cans full of water, plus a tote of old clothes, hiking boots, camera gear, etc. I could load my jeep up and be out the door in a few minutes. 

You might be sheltering in place, but the same supplies will be useful at home as they would be on the road. 

A few camping trips would function well as test runs for your supplies, and tell you what you're missing and where your holes are.

The only thing different in a SHTF scenario is that I would be a lot more likely to be packing a sidearm and watching for thieves than I would be on a regular camping trip. And I'd want to take my personal papers with me. 

There is an element of panic and sheer selfish violence that happens during emergencies that you HAVE to factor in. Crisis bring out the best, and the worst, in people. 

I've had to testify as a witness to an assault that happened during a very temporary gas shortage. There was no major emergency, no threat to his life or limb. A gas pipeline was broken and panic buying ensued. The guy tried to cut the line because he was terrified he wouldn't be able to fill his gas tank, and some old guy with two artificial legs and a cane stood in front of him and tried to wave him back into line.l The bad guy ran the old guy down, deliberately, and wasn't even apologetic about it. While the paramedics were treating the old guy (and while I and others who witnessed the assault were standing there shouting at him and using language that would get people instantly banned on this forum) he proceeded to fill his gas tank and a couple gas cans and an ICE COOLER up with gas. (And the gas station also had signs up asking people to limit themselves to fifteen gallons. He also threatened to squirt the attendant with gas when she came out to tell him to stop pumping.)

I learned during the trial that the the bad guy had come from seventy miles away to buy gas because all the gas stations in his area were out. 

I can't even imagine what it would be like during a real crisis, where people are perhaps hungry, hurt, scared, confused, and fearing for their lives and the lives of their friends and loved ones. 




CMG_CEO said:


> Definitely watched The Dome for a while then at some point got uninterested. I'm very much into all those shows though. The 100 just had the finale and The Walking Dead I binge watch when I can (not much this past week  I think one of the better post-apoc movies is The Road. Haven't seen it in a while but have been meaning to re-watch it.
> 
> I agree that L-T you will need a community. I'm more concerned with L-T scenarios just out of sheer interest, but now that I see some of your posts I can't but help to think I'm NOT prepared as well as I should be and am not thinking of potential short term issues. I'm from Toledo Ohio and just a year or so ago they had their main water reservoir tainted due to algae growth, primarily due to run-off of ag chemicals that are reaching high levels. The whole cities water was shut down for nearly a week and there was a run on stores as far north as around where we are, Detroit. Was pretty crazy. I will definitely be rethinking how prepared I am, especially with young kids.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

With young children role playing is a good way to involve them in learning to be self sufficient. Actual experiences in outdoor camping would provide a backdrop for skill sets to be practiced in a natural setting. At home they can practice/chant rhymes that reinforce home safety procedures such as what to do during a fire/tornado/hurricane, how to dial 911, being able to repeat their ID info to emergency personnel. Any adult survival group member would have to be supportive and put the needs of children first; otherwise, I wouldn't want those adults in my support group. 

I think any STUFF emergency situation can be planned for even it there's little chance of it actually happening. Think about Ebola and what you'll do if you're automatically quarantined in your home or wherever. Or imagine what you'll do first if a tsunami warning is issued for your area. In a building fire does everyone know where the exits are and then how to meet in an area well away from the fire? 

In many emergency situations your chances of survival increase if you make it through the first 48 hours. Try to make this an important thought to remember for everyone in your group.


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## CMG_CEO (Mar 24, 2015)

I like the movie/TV shows that some people are posting since there are a couple I haven't heard about. Has anyone ever started a thread on the best survival / post-apoc shows and movies?


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

There've been various threads discussing movies, shows, and, don't forget, books. Probably doesn't hurt to just mention titles over again, though, since evaluations can change with perspective. I do watch Walking Dead, although since the whole zombie theme is so ridiculous, requires looking at as symbolic, yet attracts kiddie fans who see no point in anything but uber-gore makeup and such, it's certainly rather flawed. A couple of DVDs available through Netflix that have sort of faded into history but that I liked were the low-budget pseudo-documentary "Ever since the World Ended" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0283337/ ), set in Frisco years after some virus does a 99.99% fatality wipeout, taking quite a good look at small group versus damaged-loner dynamics. Another is "Survivors" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1258189/ ), a remake of an even earlier British TV show (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072572/ ) with the same name. Both versions are worth watching, imo. The movie "Contagion" has gotten a lot of criticism but its science is pretty good. "Jericho," of course, is worth a binge-watching session through its entire season and a half.

A number of very good books haven't been adapted to the screen. One recent one I especially enjoyed might appeal to Wyaat, being set in Ohio, the author living at the time in Columbus, "The Things That Keep Us here" (http://www.amazon.com/Things-That-K...EKG_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427810462&sr=1-1 ). One shouldn't miss what was essentially the earliest of post-WWII post-apocalyptic fiction, "Earth Abides," although it's certainly dated in both its physical and cultural setting. "Alas, Babylon" "One Second After" "Lucifer's Hammer" and the very recent "Station Eleven" (http://www.amazon.com/Station-Eleven-Emily-John-Mandel/dp/0385353308 ) all come to mind, too. Ahh, almost forgot Kunstler's "World Made By Hand" series (http://www.amazon.com/World-Made-Ja...=UTF8&qid=1427811584&sr=1-3&keywords=kunstler ), all three of the planned four novels are quite good.

ETA after noting Vicker's post below, I've seen "Happy People" and it is extraordinary.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

There is a great documentary on Netflix titled Happy People. It follows the lives of a community of mostly trappers who live in the Tiaga of East Siberia. They make their own skis, traps shelter. They spend the warm months preparing for the cold months and trapping season. It's a great view into the lives of a community that, largely lives self sufficiently.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

I normally don't like reality shows, but I do like Dual Survival. Both Cody Lundin and Matt Graham -- who replaced him -- are legit. The military guys .... eh, they're so-so.

Many years before he ever had a TV show, I met Cody Lundin on a trail while backpacking in the Flagstaff area ... and razzed him about his lack of shoes! He really does run around barefoot in the woods, and how he does it in Arizona without ending up with feet badly infected from bullhead thorns, I do not know. He's also distinctive enough, between the bare feet, the braids, and that bear-like build, to be highly memorable and the first time I saw him on TV, I was like, "Oh, it's the barefoot guy!"

That said, most of the information in Dual Survival is going to be fantasy for most people. Very few people will ever be stranded in the wilderness. And many people would be physically unable to do some of the things the guys do, particularly free climbing things and various ways to make fire without a match except under the most ideal of situation. I have pretty good fire skills, but I sure wouldn't want to free climb a vertical cliff myself -- I know my limits. 

(I live in the middle of a national forest, where I fairly routinely hike or ride quads in remote-er areas than I live. Some of those quad trails see very little traffic. I've never yet gotten stuck myself, but I know people who have spent a night or two waiting for help to arrive, and I've rescued a few folks over the years. I assume, sooner or later, I will end up stuck somewhere myself -- it's a high probability event for me.)

ETA: Most of the rest of the survival shows are full of bad advice, up to and including advice that could get you killed if you followed it.


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## CMG_CEO (Mar 24, 2015)

I've got a good one that many of you may not have heard of. It's a documentary series by VICE called "Far Out" about what you may call extreme homesteading. My favorite is Agafia's Life. Check it out if you have time: http://www.vice.com/series/far-out


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

CC thanks for the link, I had not seen that but will defiantly giving it a look soon.

I will go back to my early statement and I think the advice given in all of the previous post points to the same thing. The books the TV shows the supplies, these are all steps in the right direction. However, at some point the skills have to be developed or it is all for nothing. I have done many different things in my life and one thing I am certain of, there are no shortcuts to becoming proficient at a task outside of experience. All the books in the world can never take the place of experience from practice. 

What kind of timeline you believe we have to prepare, what event you think is the most likely. Those things will all shape what you believe is important as far as skills needed and how much time you have to master those skills. None of us should believe we can simply gather information and supplies now then when something happens we will automatically start living that life we have been reading about or been watching. If you are not practicing these skills now and making trial runs as test for your plan you are very likely to not have a paddle once you get up the creek.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

if you are serious about daily survival....you need to watch river cottage out of the u.k. its what homesteading daily survival needs being produced by ones own hands is all about.

mr. ceo...if carbontv wants a winner tv show do an american version of that show...but leave out bullcrap drama that many of todays shows have....that show has a following there(u.k) and here ....the folks that know about it....thats incredible from what i see.

another idea is do a tv show based on the foxfire books....but keep it real.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

The keep it real is very important....
You really have to check out his past stuff. He has saved my bacon with his knowledge.

That's why this site is important

Because we learn life skills that are needed to live.
Most of us know who to turn to for help and they do reply with ideas

So thanks for not giving up here when things got tough.. that same spirit will help you and yours..... to many people give up.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

This. My area of interest is mostly wilderness survival. I was hiking before I was out of diapers, backpacking in middle school, backpacking solo before I was legally an adult, and I now live in an area where -- while we have a nice cabin and all the amenities of "home" -- we also get bears, lions, and elk wandering through the community and it's 45 minutes to town.

I see people -- all the time -- who get themselves in trouble out here because they are unprepared and in over their heads. They may have a lot of book knowledge, and lots of fancy equipment, but they don't have any real practical knowledge. 

I'm planning on a hike this summer through what I would consider an easy trail. The books from yesteryear all call it an easy hike. It IS an easy hike. It's flat, there's water the whole way, the weather tends to be agreeable, and there is an endless and unlimited supply of crawdads in unbelievable numbers, so you don't need to pack as much food as you normally would.

Every recent review of this hike describes it as difficult to extremely difficult. I highly doubt it's changed that much. It's an eeaaaaasy hike! The difference is that the people hiking it are so much less experienced. 

I think the reality is that the people who are hiking it now are n00bs with more book knowledge than practical trail skills. They might have great equipment, and they might have spent years running up and down Squaw Peak in Phoenix, but they just don't know what they need to know from actual real-world experience. Also, they may have great equipment, but it may not be the RIGHT equipment (or clothing, when dealing with the canyon roses) for the job. They just don't have the skills they need ... all they have is book learning and perhaps a handful to a few dozen hikes for real world experience. 

(The hike is Chevelon Canyon -- I'll probably do Chevelon Crossing to Durfee crossing and camp at Durfee and day hike for a few days from there before returning via a loop from the Durfee trailhead back to Chevelon Crossing on forest service roads. Durfee has an enormous old picnic table carved out of a juniper trunk with a chain saw by the CCC in the 30's, and flat sandy ground for sleeping on. You guys can google that hike, and if viewed through experienced eyes, laugh at some of the melodramatic descriptions of swamps! and cliffs! and rose bushes! Oh my. I'm specifically going there because I know it's an easy hike, and I have so many health issues and arthritis that I don't think I could handle a tough hike anymore no matter how much conditioning I did beforehand.)

And my point in this long-winded rambling post is that what someone with the appropriate skills would consider "easy" an amateur may find very difficult. I have no doubt that the n00bs who are complaining about how hard that hike is found it incredibly difficult, whereas I think it's a beautiful, easy, relaxing stroll. I know how to route find, I know how to navigate the terrain, and I know how to deal with sticker bushes and bogs. (Wear heavy jeans.) That difference is simply experience, plus perhaps a frame of reference for what a difficult hike is really like.



Muleman said:


> CC thanks for the link, I had not seen that but will defiantly giving it a look soon.
> 
> I will go back to my early statement and I think the advice given in all of the previous post points to the same thing. The books the TV shows the supplies, these are all steps in the right direction. However, at some point the skills have to be developed or it is all for nothing. I have done many different things in my life and one thing I am certain of, there are no shortcuts to becoming proficient at a task outside of experience. All the books in the world can never take the place of experience from practice.
> 
> What kind of timeline you believe we have to prepare, what event you think is the most likely. Those things will all shape what you believe is important as far as skills needed and how much time you have to master those skills. None of us should believe we can simply gather information and supplies now then when something happens we will automatically start living that life we have been reading about or been watching. If you are not practicing these skills now and making trial runs as test for your plan you are very likely to not have a paddle once you get up the creek.


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

> but I do like Dual Survival. Both Cody Lundin and Matt Graham -- who replaced him -- are legit


Confirmation of an impression I had from seeing a couple of the episodes, then actually emailing Cody about the one, in Louisiana, I believe, with wading around in swampland with an occasional small cottonmouth taking offense to their presence. I pointed out to him that a snake shown in one brief segment, labelled a cottonmouth, practically lunging off dry ground striking up towards the camera, mouth opening wide and white and vicious... was a harmless banded water snake, you could even see it had a round eye pupil. Cody replied it was quite possible such misinformation was unfortunately included since the two participant personalities aren't the people doing the editing and don't control the eventual content. Seemed like a standup guy to respond to an email as quickly and candidly as he did.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

elkhound said:


> mr. ceo...if carbontv wants a winner tv show do an american version of that show...but leave out bullcrap drama that many of todays shows have....that show has a following there(u.k) and here ....the folks that know about it....thats incredible from what i see.


I'd love to see a show that covers real, practical, short-term SHTF scenarios and how to survive them. There are "survival" shows, yes, but most of them offer up advice that might work for an Army Ranger but which would get an average out-of-shape American killed if they tried. (Bear Grylls comes to mind as a fountain of bad advice.)

i.e., "Some terrorist just nuked my city, what do I do now?" (The answer very well might be "shelter in place" rather than flee, depending on a lot of factors.)

Or, "I just got lost in the woods, what do I do?" 

Or, "There was an earthquake, what now?"

Or, "There was an earthquake and I'm at a shoreline prone to tsunami, what now?"

Or, "A wildfire's coming -- what do I do?"

That sort of thing. 

Most people are fairly likely to experience short-term disasters at some point or another in their lives.


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## CMG_CEO (Mar 24, 2015)

Trust me, I fully intend to take my girls (twin 3.5yr olds) camping (and fishing) very soon to get them acclimated. I can't believe it snowed here in MI last night, but I'm going to start with camping in the backyard when it warms up so they get used to it, then hit the campground. The last thing I want to do is raise a couple of prissy girls that feel like they are entitled to everything. The thought is frankly disgusting to me. However, I also want them to be ladies, and a grew up in a house with 3 other brothers, so I don't have much to base that on except for my mom. 

On the CarbonTV front, we have a new survival show from one of our YouTube partners, but we are also producing new shows and after we dove into this site, it's highly likely we may look to do a reality show on someone here. Given my immersion on here in the last week, there are some really fun and interesting people. We just did a pilot recently called "the disease" on turkey hunting and have an aggressive show launch schedule for the next few months. We did one on Chuck Testa, the famous taxidermist. I don't think it's up yet though. We are moving towards producing our own shows and our head of content was aware of HT and said it would be a great place to get a documentary going. I'm not going to post anything until he tells me, but I would personally love to do something similar to what I posted on VICE's Far Out, but less extreme. 

As crazy as it sounds, I came here in a firestorm and now I can't leave because I actually really like this place. I'm just trying to stay out of all the politics right now where everyone just bullies me


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

DryHeat said:


> Confirmation of an impression I had from seeing a couple of the episodes, then actually emailing Cody about the one, in Louisiana, I believe, with wading around in swampland with an occasional small cottonmouth taking offense to their presence. I pointed out to him that a snake shown in one brief segment, labelled a cottonmouth, practically lunging off dry ground striking up towards the camera, mouth opening wide and white and vicious... was a harmless banded water snake, you could even see it had a round eye pupil. Cody replied it was quite possible such misinformation was unfortunately included since the two participant personalities aren't the people doing the editing and don't control the eventual content. Seemed like a standup guy to respond to an email as quickly and candidly as he did.



Yeah, from everything I've heard (and my brief encounter with him), he's totally legit. He actually runs a survival school in conjunction with NAU university in Flagstaff and there are videos of classes from that school on Youtube that are very illustrative of his skills and knowledge. (And which have generally excellent survival advice.)

Discovery Channel did him a real disservice posting some clips of him having a bad day or two. It really said a lot about why I suspect he left the show. Yes, he looked mighty unprofessional, but I have to wonder what his partner had done to provoke him given some of the video that DID make the big screen of the military guy's generally bratty and overly anxious behavior, and what the rest of the story was. 

Re: snakes -- There's an outtake of him busting a gut laughing while one of the military guys -- I forget which one -- tries to kill a rattler. I laughed too, because it was clear the military guy had little practice killing a rattlesnake. He understood the theory, but he obviously hadn't done it a lot. Rattlers are pretty easy to kill, if you know what you're doing.

(There's also not a lot of calories in rattlesnake meat, so I'm not sure I would find the risk vs. reward worthwhile in a survival situation in the desert. If you got bit, it would be disastrous, and the desert is fairly resource-rich as far as food sources goes. I'd likely go find something else to eat that wouldn't cause my leg to rot off if it bit me.)

As far as I can tell, Matt Graham is legit too. The way he moves and carries himself can't be faked. The only real complaint I have about him is that the average person would never be able to replicate his climbing skills or his hunting skills. I sure couldn't, and his partner sure can't! That pulls the focus away from "what can the average person do to survive in the woods" and makes it, "this is what this modern day Tarzan is doing to survive in the woods." 

(Cody is built like a tank and I think that actually helped him present a more realistic "this is what YOU can do to survive in the woods!" approach. He wasn't very good at climbing cliffs or and he wasn't going to be able to stalk a wild pig or turkey and kill it with an atlatl, and he knew it. So the focus was on more average, every-day survive skills, and I can actually remember him advising against descending rough terrain or hunting dangerous critters a few times because the risk/reward ratio wasn't worth it.)


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## sniper69 (Sep 23, 2007)

CMG_CEO said:


> Trust me, I fully intend to take my girls (twin 3.5yr olds) camping (and fishing) very soon to get them acclimated. I can't believe it snowed here in MI last night, but I'm going to start with camping in the backyard when it warms up so they get used to it, then hit the campground. The last thing I want to do is raise a couple of prissy girls that feel like they are entitled to everything. The thought is frankly disgusting to me. However, I also want them to be ladies, and a grew up in a house with 3 other brothers, so I don't have much to base that on except for my mom.
> 
> On the CarbonTV front, we have a new survival show from one of our YouTube partners, but we are also producing new shows and after we dove into this site, it's highly likely we may look to do a reality show on someone here. Given my immersion on here in the last week, there are some really fun and interesting people. We just did a pilot recently called "the disease" on turkey hunting and have an aggressive show launch schedule for the next few months. We did one on Chuck Testa, the famous taxidermist. I don't think it's up yet though. We are moving towards producing our own shows and our head of content was aware of HT and said it would be a great place to get a documentary going. I'm not going to post anything until he tells me, but I would personally love to do something similar to what I posted on VICE's Far Out, but less extreme.
> 
> As crazy as it sounds, I came here in a firestorm and now I can't leave because I actually really like this place. I'm just trying to stay out of all the politics right now where everyone just bullies me


There are some good campgrounds in MI and places to visit. I'm sure they would enjoy visiting and camping in the UP (of course there are some great places in the lower peninsula too.  ). 

The new shows sound interesting.


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

I'll take your Option b).

I think the community you establish with the people in closest proximity to you is the best prep you've got for long term success at anything. It may be family, friends, church members or neighbors, but whatever it is, it's best put in place long before you need it.

I live in an area that will very likely endure a mega-quake within my lifetime. We out here in the boonies have been told to prepare for 6 months without assistance of any kind, due to washed-out roads and bridges (widespread flooding from broken dams is expected), no electricity, no fuel, etc. I prepare for that, and for the most part, I think it leave me decently prepared for most anything else.

Besides, I love living this way and would do it no matter what. Homegrown food just tastes better, y'know?


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## CMG_CEO (Mar 24, 2015)

Not sure they will be up for the 5hr drive to the UP! Will probably start closer to home since they are only 3 and work our way up. As long as we take Anna & Elsa nightgowns and dolls with us they should be okay  Anyone who has girls under 10 will understand! The fact I can sing the entire soundtrack of Frozen is sad.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

CMG_CEO said:


> Not sure they will be up for the 5hr drive to the UP! Will probably start closer to home since they are only 3 and work our way up. As long as we take Anna & Elsa nightgowns and dolls with us they should be okay  Anyone who has girls under 10 will understand! The fact I can sing the entire soundtrack of Frozen is sad.


Just says you're a loving dad, LOLOL. 

Some of my earliest memories are from around that age, hiking and camping. (As an adult, I sat down on the ground one day at the confluence of the West Fork and Oak Creek Canyon, and stared in shock, realizing where I was -- I hadn't recognized it from adult eye level, but sitting down, with my eyes at toddler height, it was clearly a place I'd been as a very small child. I asked my dad, who confirmed, yes, I'd gone there a lot as a toddler!)

That's a good age to start, and it doesn't have to be a long hike or remote wilderness to impress the kids. 

Kids are tougher than adults think, though -- they have less mass to move around, LOL, and most children over three or four can hike surprisingly long distances. 

Camping in the back yard would be a good idea, and lots of fun. That kind of thing creates lifelong memories of cool things they did with their dad!


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Certainly tough with the kids now days. There is a balance somewhere between keeping a job and providing for them, and doing things with them. I have worked away to some extent most of my adult life, but always tried to do things with my 2 girls when I was home. They got their own mules when they were 5. My oldest daughter still rides the same one, my youngest started with a mammoth donkey, then got a mule a few years later that she still rides. I am not the best teacher, certainly not the most patient. A person starts them off young though and it is reassuring to see them once they get a little older and know that they have mastered a skill that will serve them their whole life. Both my daughters now go out and catch their mules and do everything with them by themselves with complete confidence, this will serve them well in many areas of life.

CC you are on the right track starting yours out young. Like they say, "There are no perfect lives, just perfect moments". Glad you decided to stick around and visit a bit. I know you had a less than enjoyable introduction, but there are a lot good people here, just wanting to visit and enjoy some good company and share an idea or two.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

kasilofhome said:


> the keep it real is very important....
> You really have to check out his past stuff. He has saved my bacon with his knowledge.
> 
> That's why this site is important
> ...


split personality...again


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

kasilofhome said:


> The keep it real is very important....
> You really have to check out his past stuff. He has saved my bacon with his knowledge.
> 
> That's why this site is important
> ...


Kas, I got lost. Who is the "he" you refer to as saving your bacon with knowledge?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Elk, but really the list is long...Elk has great videos and he really wants to teach ways to think out side the box.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

AH! yes, I see.


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