# When Does Rescue Become Abuse



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

A feral horse in Alberta was spotted a couple months ago and initial reports from hunters and sportsmen was that he was missing is back hoof and as time progressed there have been other sightings, each mentioning the horse becoming more emaciated. 

Well meaning horsemen have worked hard trying to locate the horse in order to put it down but another woman decided this was a horse that needed saving and she located him, limped him out of the bush and put him in a trailer and hauled him home. 

As expected, it's game on complete with a story that humanizes horses, the right shocking pictures, send us money, we're going to need lots because he's going to need surgeries and a prosthetic, gofundme account set up but we'd much rather you e-transfer funds because it's quicker. Any person who dares suggest the horse should be put down is suitable chastised. 

The vet they've selected to deal with this is likely the only vet in the province capable of dealing with is 3 hours away but does have a mobile vet clinic and operating room. 

More shocking is that some of the people that are contributing to this folly seem to feel that this horse will be rehabilitated sufficiently for 'light riding' when in fact, folks are going to end up footing a bill that will likely be well into the tens of thousands of dollars for either an abandoned saddle horse or a scrub feral horse.

Your thoughts?

https://www.facebook.com/The-Saving-of-Caleb-Raphael-Albertas-Wild-Mustang-447360438776962/timeline/


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

For me it always comes down to what gives the animal a satisfying life. If that can't be done, then putting the animal down is the only humane option. I suppose that if someone was willing to devote their lives to the care of a horse with a prothetic then more power to them. But if they need to rely on uncertain donations to do it, then their ability to do so is highly questionable from the start.

But the usefullness of the horse does not come into play for me. The animal that was a back yard pleasure horse has a personality and life just as worthy of respect as a valuable thoroughbred stud.

I don't consider that as humanizing a horse- it's just that I believe that animals have lives of value intrinsic to them.


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## malinda (May 12, 2002)

Prosthetics rarely work for horses, unfortunately he'll likely be in pain for the rest of his life.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I've never rescued a horse with the hopes of "making something of it", but rather for the life I can help it achieve if it's available. If a horse is in pain continually, can't move with the herd fairly well, or at least with a splinter group in some normal fashion, then I will put it down. I have several pasture ornaments that have the same worth to me as my riding horses, it isn't about their value at my place. 

I do hear you though about the feral horse this woman has taken in. Personally, if she can't afford it on her own, I believe she should put the horse down. I would not crowd fund or ask for thousands of dollars for a horse in any shape quite frankly. It shouldn't be up to other people to pay for my wanting to help an animal. In fact, some people will make it more about themselves and how "terrible" they feel for the animal, when really they are just making themselves look good. 

Sigh. So many thoughts, so little time.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

That one will never be right. The bones of the foot are both gone and damaged.

Put. It. Down.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

I'm not a vet so I can't say. But, if an animal is in constant pain and there's no hope for it to get better, it's kinder, IMO, to put it down.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

What I don't understand is why is it never a horse that actually has a chance of being rehabbed? It's always something that has a gazillion issues, will always be in pain, cost of ton of money and still never be able to do anything? 

Gah. That money could rehab 100s of skinny or minor issue horses that could actually be sold for a reasonable price to people that want them. In my opinion it's money down the drain.


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## RLStewart (Sep 10, 2006)

I hate to see an animal suffer when it would be more humane to put them down. We had a similar case in our area. Horse was intentionally set on fire so burned over a large portion of his body. I'd hate to even estimate the $$$'s that have been put into this horse that will never be right. And the owner had no money at all, horse had probably never been in a barn before this happened... Now he's a celebrity. I also think of the # of horses that could have been rescued with the money spent on this one. I do have a collection of worthless "pet" horses. But I can afford to take care of them and when I can't they will be put down. Or if they get in too bad of shape to feel that they have a good quality of life.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

I agree with all the others who think if you're going to rescue a horse you better make sure you can afford it's care. And yes, keeping this horse alive is probably abuse. I have to say probably because it's hard to tell from the pictures the extent of the damage and if I came across a case like this I would rely heavily on my vet and farrier's advise as to what quality of life this horse can hope for. If there's no possible way for the hoof to grow back and/or it will have to live it's life in pain then the only option I would see would be euthanasia.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Just curious. If it was feral, are there any laws that apply to capturing a feral horse for any reason and taking ownership of it?


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

It said in the article they got a permit for capture.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

RLStewart said:


> I do have a collection of worthless "pet" horses. But I can afford to take care of them and when I can't they will be put down. Or if they get in too bad of shape to feel that they have a good quality of life.


I have one, my DD's old Chincoteague pony. He's 25, has heaves and is missing teeth. He went off his feed earlier in the year and lost a lot of weight. I changed his feed and he's now eating good and has put on weight. But, if he hadn't, I would be putting him down at the end of the summer. He was shivering in the early summer if it rained so I can just imagine what he would have been like during the winter.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Good grief! I wish they would just put that poor animal down! They are making it suffer for no good reason! *Quantity* of life is not the be-all and end-all!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I believe we all have dear old horses that have earned their retirement but not many of us are asking for tens of thousands in donations for multiple surgeries and wouldn't hesitate to put them down if quality of life was diminished.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Unfortunately, I see this a lot and having experience with both dog and horse rescues has made me less than enthusiastic about the majority of rescues. So many of them take on a project like this, with an animal that will NEVER have a reasonably comfortable life and then use it to convince people to donate funds to the rescue. 

I absolutely can not and will not believe these people are doing anything except feeding their own ego.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I don't doubt the intentions of these people's motives but in this particular situation, I also know the vet clinic they mention very well and they will only take this so far. They do handle extreme situations but are very clear that they will always take prognosis and quality of life into consideration but so many people only understand they are the best in the business and of course they're going to save this one. 

I notice these folks did mention that if the vet figures the horse should be put down, they will comply but they made no comment about what would be done with the massive donations they're receiving either, which makes me think they believe this is going to be a huge success.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I simply can't believe they are not putting this horse down, either the "rescue" or the vets are not being very responsible here. I have seen some really traumatic hoof injuries in my lifetime, but a horse coming in with no foot is not something I would try to "fix". The pain levels that poor thing is suffering, and he IS suffering, let's face it, are levels I would not let any animal suffer with. 

Grrrr.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

aoconnor1 said:


> I simply can't believe they are not putting this horse down, either the "rescue" or the vets are not being very responsible here. I have seen some really traumatic hoof injuries in my lifetime, but a horse coming in with no foot is not something I would try to "fix". The pain levels that poor thing is suffering, and he IS suffering, let's face it, are levels I would not let any animal suffer with.
> 
> Grrrr.


I have a feeling the vet they claim to be involved have only had phone discussion to this point or perhaps they're consulting with a local vet. 

They do have a mobile clinic/surgical facility as well as being associated with the U of C Veterinary program but their office is close to 3 hours from where this horse is located and they wouldn't be able to just drop everything and keep driving back and forth to treat this horse.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

wr said:


> I have a feeling the vet they claim to be involved have only had phone discussion to this point or perhaps they're consulting with a local vet.
> 
> They do have a mobile clinic/surgical facility as well as being associated with the U of C Veterinary program but their office is close to 3 hours from where this horse is located and they wouldn't be able to just drop everything and keep driving back and forth to treat this horse.


Plus, if they aren't actually physically seeing the horse, the vets may not truly know the extent of injury, which would lead them to treat it rather than euthanize it. 

I must say, my vets are not so. They are very straightforward and honest about putting a horse down when needed. I know they would probably advise that with the horse in the pics. Poor guy...I wish I could intervene for him.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

aoconnor1 said:


> Plus, if they aren't actually physically seeing the horse, the vets may not truly know the extent of injury, which would lead them to treat it rather than euthanize it.
> 
> I must say, my vets are not so. They are very straightforward and honest about putting a horse down when needed. I know they would probably advise that with the horse in the pics. Poor guy...I wish I could intervene for him.


An ethical vet wouldn't let his name be associated without seeing the animal. Sounds like a dicey situation to me. Probably a money scam and not much regard for the horse.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

This just reinforces my view that Rescues are about the ego of the Rescuer and not about the Rescuee.

It appears that the rescuers have cleansed their FB page of most of the information. There are many that disagree with the rescuers selfishly prolonging the life of this poor horse.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Alder said:


> An ethical vet wouldn't let his name be associated without seeing the animal. Sounds like a dicey situation to me. Probably a money scam and not much regard for the horse.


They may be using the name of the best in the business as a way to gain credibility or there is also a chance that they're citing this particular vet because of their association with the faculty of Veterinary Medicine and it could be a research project. 

I know all of the vets associated with the clinic they mention and none would allow an animal to carry on without quality of life.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

wr said:


> They may be using the name of the best in the business as a way to gain credibility or there is also a chance that they're citing this particular vet because of their association with the faculty of Veterinary Medicine and it could be a research project.
> 
> I know all of the vets associated with the clinic they mention and none would allow an animal to carry on without quality of life.


There isn't a vet worth his or her salt that wouldn't have done radiographs immediately to see what was going on. The woman said the first vet that came just "looked at the leg" and checked for a temperature. REALLY?? I would have that vets license revoked!!! I am POSITIVE that couldn't have happened. IF a vet came out there, they would have had to have advised to euthanize and been ignored. Then it also sounded like maybe they were only doing things by phone at first. Who knows, it is a sad, sick story about a horse in a LOT of pain that has to stand in a stall of STRAW??!! (which is about the least healthy bedding to have that poor horse standing in. Imagine the sharp little ends of that straw poking the leg...I am just so disgusted). 

Hopefully someone gets smart enough and concerned enough to put it down.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Alder said:


> An ethical vet wouldn't let his name be associated without seeing the animal. Sounds like a dicey situation to me. Probably a money scam and not much regard for the horse.


I would bet the vet isn't happy his name is being spread all over the internet. Wonder if he knows. Aoconnor, if the rescuer knew what they were doing one would think they'd take the horse's temp before even calling the vet. 

Why would a permit be issued to catch a horse in such awful condition? Has this so-called rescuer been reported to animal control?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Joshie said:


> I would bet the vet isn't happy his name is being spread all over the internet. Wonder if he knows. Aoconnor, if the rescuer knew what they were doing one would think they'd take the horse's temp before even calling the vet.
> 
> Why would a permit be issued to catch a horse in such awful condition? Has this so-called rescuer been reported to animal control?


It's illegal to capture feral horses in Alberta without a permit and there are also laws against shooting them. 

In the case of this horse, he had been seen often and certain sectors of the public had been granted consent to put him down and that would have extended to local farmers, ranchers, crown leaseholders and certain people in recreational areas were aware of posted signs asked that if anyone saw the horse to report it to fish & wildlife immediately. 

It wasn't technically open season on him and anyone who would have put it down was aware that they do have to contact fish & wildlife. The area the horse was in is pretty broad and all bush country so he was simply hard to locate.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Joshie said:


> Aoconnor, if the rescuer knew what they were doing one would think they'd take the horse's temp before even calling the vet.


Not necessarily. When I get a horse in that is in very bad shape, I take it to the vet immediately or have them make a farm call immediately. I am not always able to get a temp on a horse in bad shape, I don't have enough hands to hold or help until I get to my vet. I never stop to take a temp when a horse is in pain or injured, unless I suspect a respiratory infection or similar, and then I generally try to grab a quick temp if the horse allows, but most often I am already headed to the vet and let them take the temp. (I am a one woman show here, no one around to hold a head while I try to get a temp from the rear!). The only time I have to do temps is when I am monitoring a respiratory issue or infection that my vet needs updates on frequently.

In the case we have been talking about, I doubt the "rescuer" has knowledge of taking temps, as they obviously have little knowledge of anything medical such as pain, tolerance of pain levels horses can endure, and the fact that a horse simply can't walk on 3 legs for long. I simply don't think these people understand what they are doing to the horse by prolonging it's life. 

I have thought about this a lot. As a person who takes very badly abused, neglected, or injured horses in and cares for them, I can honestly say I have carefully thought through what could possibly be done for this horse, and to what lengths I would go if he was brought to me. Yes, it could have surgery that would remove a portion of it's leg enough so that they could fit a prosthetic below the hock. I don't know what kind of pain the horse would have to endure, and lets face it, the horse is in too horrible of body condition to even begin considering surgery for him for a very long time. He needs months of recovery to have a level of health that would get him through a surgery of the type he would have to have done. Plus, with his degree of emaciation, he most likely has a heart murmur caused by lack of nutrition, which would have to be cleared before he could even be put under for the surgery, which means months and months of rehab to get him up to a good body condition which would most likely take care of the murmur he probably has. He could have organs failing from the starvation that would prevent any surgery at all. Plus, the "rescuer" has no money and that surgery would run in the thousands.

I believe, and I have experience with horses in his condition or worse that I am basing my belief on, that he will not at this time survive a surgery of the kind he would have to undergo to get him stable; and to get him up to where he would have to be in order to have that kind of surgery would be too long of a time and he would be in too much pain for him to have any kind of life what so ever. I would euthanize him immediately based on what I have seen and read about him, including seeing the x-rays and his body condition right now.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Yeah, since they put the x-rays up euthanasia would be the kindest thing they could do for this horse. Why anyone in their right mind would think otherwise is beyond me but there are people on the facebook page ranting against the people who do think he should be put down.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I think the folks that 'saved' him did feel they were doing a good thing but things have gotten awful messy now. 

I've been told that they're moving the horse quite frequently because of reports to the SPCA, police and general concern that they may be forced to put the poor thing down, which in my opinion, is causing more discomfort and stress.


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## TheFarmerMommy (Mar 21, 2014)

Oh, don't even get me started on this topic. I'll never stop. Lol. There is a non-profit horse rescue in this area that has always bugged me for the same reason. They rescue horses that ought to be put down and subject them to "heroic" measures. And rant and rave about how evil people are for not donating to the cause. I'm talking 27 year old horses with complicated pedal bone fractures, etc. And horses that likely could never be successfully re-homed because of their temperament or backgrounds. The one case I remember offhand was a 13 year old stallion that had lived most of it's life in a field with little to no human contact. They gelded it and were trying to adopt it out with every expectation that it could do well with the average backyard horse keeper. 

I take care of the horses in a small boarding barn occasionally. One boarder is a mustang that was gelded late, horrendously mistreated, etc. You'd never know it now. But he was lucky enough to fall into the lap of a professional horsewoman who devoted considerable time daily to his rehabilitation. I don't see people like that working for this rescue. One sweet, sweet woman who voluneered with them had a young daughter who rode with my girls occasionally. The daughter was barely 4 & tiny. The mom hadn't been on a horse in 20 years. But told me happily that she was adopting an OTTB from the group that both she and her daughter could ride. Highly unlikely  

I live near MiddleBurg, VA so another thing that is perhaps unique to rescues around here is the churn of high-octane competition horses that fall on hard times when they can no longer compete. Rescues innocently (or not) forget that these horses are frequently too much for the average rider, even in retirement. I know of an older CCI**** horse that miraculously avoided debilitating injury during his career and was happily packing an adult beginner around the "puddle jumper" division of the local events. People in the know would actually gasp and exclaim things like "omg, that's the horse that jumped clean over -name a diabolically difficult man/equine eating cross country obstacle- at Rolex!!" And here he was rocking a walk/trot dressage test, gently taking care of his nervous beginner rider with an awareness that was pretty astounding. But horses like that are far and few in between. A local horse trader who I find unscrupulous most of the time had a surprisingly honest ad on CL recently. The horse was a retired Grand Prix jumper. He noted that you "needed to be the kind of rider who could ride a retired Grand Prix show jumper". Truer words were never spoken....


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

But you must remember, these people have watched videos from some BNT, so they know what they're doing. How dare you suggest that they don't know how to handle the horse. After all, the horse is horribly misunderstood. All you need to do is love it and everything will be fine. (I hope the sarcasm came thru.)


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

dizzy said:


> But you must remember, these people have watched videos from some BNT, so they know what they're doing. How dare you suggest that they don't know how to handle the horse. After all, the horse is horribly misunderstood. All you need to do is love it and everything will be fine. (I hope the sarcasm came thru.)


Oh dizzy, don't get ME started on THIS topic!!! You have NO idea how many people I run into that just want an OTTB because they are just to die for!!!! And they know less than a bottle cap full of owning a horse. And suggest to them that they should maybe go slowly and learn about horses first, oh my, they go nutso!!! 

Sigh, twice.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

I know someone that has not 1, but 2 mustangs. She doesn't know how to handle them, and is actually afraid of them to a point. I tried to help her at one point in time. She was trying to work the one in the round pen, but didn't have a clue as to what she was doing. I spend about 5, 10 minutes in there working the horse. The difference was like night and day. She thanked me-then went right back to what she was doing. :grit: :smack 

I have mixed feelings on BNT. For those of us who didn't grow up w/horses, they can be a big help-as long as the person really understands what's being presented and is willing to put the time in to learn how to do things. But, many people don't really understand what's being taught and fail to implement it correctly. That's where the problem comes in.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

dizzy said:


> I know someone that has not 1, but 2 mustangs. She doesn't know how to handle them, and is actually afraid of them to a point. I tried to help her at one point in time. She was trying to work the one in the round pen, but didn't have a clue as to what she was doing. I spend about 5, 10 minutes in there working the horse. The difference was like night and day. She thanked me-then went right back to what she was doing. :grit: :smack
> 
> I have mixed feelings on BNT. For those of us who didn't grow up w/horses, they can be a big help-as long as the person really understands what's being presented and is willing to put the time in to learn how to do things. But, many people don't really understand what's being taught and fail to implement it correctly. That's where the problem comes in.


I have somewhat of a reputation for discouraging new riders to take on green horses and it has been said I discourage new members from trying their hand at training. 

The reality is that it takes a lot of years to learn to read a horse and if it was a simple as picking up a book or watching a few DVD's, guys like Ray Hunt would have been out of business a long time ago.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

I didn't grow up w/horses, didn't have the chance to ride much when I was growing up. It wasn't until I was in my 40s that I got my first horse and it was from watching the videos and attending clinics put on by a BNT that I learned how to read horses and work w/horses. But, I was willing to put in the time and effort (and money) to learn. 

I got my first horse when I was in my 40s, a 20 yo Arabian. Her owner had died and the family just wanted to find a good home for her. And in a short period of time, I was in tears, and ready to give her back. Then a friend lent me a video from a BNT. I watched it, and was then able to meet the BNT, ask questions and observe what he did. I started working w/her and the difference was like night and day. I lost her to colic after having her for just over 2 years. But by then, I could do anything I liked w/her.

The horse I have now is a rescue. I've done almost all the training on her. She wasn't used to being handled, and wasn't saddle trained. It's only recently that I've had someone else helping because I want to do more than trail ride and there are things I don't know how to do, so I can't teach her. 

But people are shocked w/how quiet she is for an Arab. They're shocked when we're heading back to the trailers after a trail ride and she's not trying to run. But I took her to clinics w/the BNT and learned a lot from that. I've even been able to help other people that have owned horses for years-some who have even basically owned them all their lives-when they've had problems w/their horses. But I have a feeling I'm more of the exception than the rule.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

I've worked real hard to stay out of the loop. There's a LOT of con artists out there selling stuff these days.

So....What the heck is a BNT?


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## malinda (May 12, 2002)

Big Name Trainer


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

malinda said:


> Big Name Trainer


Haha! Thanks! Like I said, I try to stay out of the loop. 

Was running though my mind - "Bit-less Natural Trainer" or some such. You know. One of those guys who seems to spend 3 years doing groundwork and never actually sits on the horse's back..


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Alder said:


> Haha! Thanks! Like I said, I try to stay out of the loop.
> 
> Was running though my mind - "Bit-less Natural Trainer" or some such. You know. One of those guys who seems to spend 3 years doing groundwork and never actually sits on the horse's back..


 Hey at least your mind wasn't in the gutter like mine was. All's I could come up with was Buck Naked Trainer.:shrug:


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

wr said:


> A feral horse in Alberta was spotted a couple months ago and initial reports from hunters and sportsmen was that he was missing is back hoof and as time progressed there have been other sightings, each mentioning the horse becoming more emaciated.
> 
> Well meaning horsemen have worked hard trying to locate the horse in order to put it down but another woman decided this was a horse that needed saving and she located him, limped him out of the bush and put him in a trailer and hauled him home.
> 
> ...


You can't fix stupid.

Muleskinner2


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

While thousands of healthy, neutered, vaccinated, housebroken cats sit in animal shelters or are euthanized, but a cat with a missing leg or one eye and a dozen people show up to "save" the feline.
While BLM feeds thousands of mostly healthy horses that no one wants, people line up to "rescue" a three legged lost cause.
Most kill pen rescues are either not really headed to slaughter or their quality of life is so poor that they don't need rescued, they need put down. Sure, out of a few thousand horses headed to the killers, one becomes useful. Everyone wants that dream. Instead they prolong the pain while they sort out the issues, only to be the one faced with continued pain or euthanasia.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Exactly.


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