# Building a house out of stone/rock--has anyone done it?



## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

I am looking for people who have experience building a house out of field stone or rock. This would not be dressed stone, but simple field stone. And stack and moarter method, NOT slipform method. Any information you can pass along to me is appreciated.


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## Sand Flat Bob (Feb 1, 2007)

RoseGarden said:


> I am looking for people who have experience building a house out of field stone or rock. This would not be dressed stone, but simple field stone. And stack and moarter method, NOT slipform method. Any information you can pass along to me is appreciated.


Lots of native rock buildings in the area I was raised. I watched the rock walls being built on my Grandfathers farm, it is very labor intensive. My father and his brothers were the labor. The stone was native to that area and had been dug up by them. 

To put it in perspective, look at a row of stone one foot high, one foot wide and about 12 feet long. That is close to one Ton of stone. It varies a little by the stone type. This was limestone. 

I have seen cold rooms etc. up in the pacific northwest that were build up out of river rock, semi-round washed stones about 10 to 12 inches across. This was easier to build, took a lot more motar, but the fitting and shaping was easier.

If you are considering building a house by your self, remember the rock is very heavy. That is why commercial building has gotten away from using it, too labor intensive, using manufactured stone is much cheaper and faster.

Good stone masons are hard to find.

Bob


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

It makes my back hurt jut to think about it.I stand in awe of those old stone structures and their builders.


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## retiredbop (Mar 9, 2007)

Our house burned down when I was 13. Over the next five years my family built a new house, one section each year. The year we laid the field stone foundation for the boys rooms my dad was in a full body cast from his knees to his armpits. Made him rather cantakerous. But the work could not stop. Under his supervison 6 teenage boys built a 3 walled foundation 14" wide, 7' tall, and 28' per side. Being the oldest and tallest I was the one in the hole laying the stone. It seemd a like a tremendous waste of time back then but before we laid rock one, my dad had us build a fieldstone outhouse. (We already had a wooden one. Why do this Dad?)

Everytime those walls got out of plumb or out of square we had to tear out that section and rebuild it the right way. Well, by the time those walls were three feet tall we didn't have to tear any more out after that.

I (16) was down in the hole. Kenny (14) and Tom (13) were responsible for mixing the concrete. The main thing here is don't make it too watery. Too much water actually weakens the concrete. You want a consistency about that of natural peanut butter. When in doubt, drier seemed to work better.

Jack (12), Richard (11 - foster child), and Lou (12 - foster child) were the rock fetchers. I'd describe what I wanted next, and they'd go find the right rock out of the pile. Yeah, rock walls weigh a lot, but you're only moving one rock at a time. That's why I listed the ages. If they could do it, so can you or your DW.

This is VERY time consuming. Those walls took us from Memorial day to Labor Day working 4 hours a day, six days a week. But what an incredible sense of accopmlishment. and imagine the pride of telling all the kids on your school bus that "I built that foundation". Would never have been believed if Mom hadn't taken pictures.

If you have nothing else to do, and no restrictive time schedule, go for it. If you're under time constraints block builds much faster.


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## Zam Farmer (Aug 13, 2005)

We build all our livestock buildings out of basalt which is mostly roundish. I have friends who have used the same stone to build houses. They had all the beds shelves cupboards etc built into the walls. For livestock we build one row of stones only using big ones at the bottom and going smaller as we go up. For a house I would use a double row and stick some wire in for reinforcing occasionally. We just pick the stones off the ground. My pig pens took about 20 pickup loads.


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## Rocky Fields (Jan 24, 2007)

Hey.

I've built a 2400 sq. ft house and a large barn with 3 ft thick walls out of fieldstone. I've been growin my rockpile to build one more house. I have 30 years experience as a stone mason. I'm built like the Hulk and work like a mule. You better be if you want to build a stone house.

RF


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

Thanks everyone for the replies, it's a lot of food for thought. Here's the background... it would be just me (female) and one other person (a guy I know, to help on occasion). I have time, and rock, but very very little money, so I have decided that if I'm ever going to get a house built on my land, I'm going to have to opt for the cheapest building material available to me, which is rock (and cedar, to be used in some applications). I can't even afford building block or lumber for a cabin sized wood frame structure. There is plenty of rock for a house or two and a couple of outbuildings easily. I have even found what I would use for cornerstones. So, no shortage of building material. The bedrock is only about a foot to 1.5 ft. below the soil in the area where I would like the house to go. So I can remove the soil for the foundation walls relatively easily. I will build them directly on bedrock then. This is what the builders did in the classic 'The Stonebuilder's Primer' book. Again, I have no time constraints. I understand that this may take a few years at the least, and maybe longer. I'm not talking about a massive 2500 s.f. house either, maybe 900 to 1000 s.f. I'm not the hulk, but in relatively good health. I have a 24' travel trailer I can stay in while working, so I can be fairly comfortable.

I am trying to make myself as aware as I can be about what the pitfalls might be, but my desire to be on my acreage is so strong that I don't want to wait until I'm too old to enjoy it. Where I am living now is no longer the country, and it's turning into a barrio. I love my house here, and my property, but I don't like the area anymore and I feel it's time to be gone. The only way I'm going to be able to move is to build with rock. There simply isn't money for any other options, at least not at this time. Who knows what the future holds, but if I wait passively for something to happen, well, I may be waiting forever, KWIM?

ETA--lots of rock structures around where my land is, houses, fences, and a lot of round cisterns.


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## dave85 (Feb 26, 2005)

is layout, layout, layout.
have stone laid out on the ground so you can see them all.
set a big one, then fill up with little ones. you will HAVE to develop an "eye' for what will fit and the symetry(sp)
Did I mention layout?
Also, you can only lay up so much, one or two courses per wall per day, then you have to let that mortar set up.
Keeping the wall straight and plumb goes without saying.

Rocky fields is right on this one. It is some of the toughest work in the world.

Having the TT and no time constraints make this doable. I would recomend you build a small storage shed first. You'll need it to lock up tools etc and it will give you experience.

Rose, I admire your spirit and empathize with your situation, but this is killing labor.
good luck,
Dave


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## Kshobbit (May 14, 2002)

Helen and Scott Nearing built two stone houses. They wrote a book about it too. I figure if they could do it, anyone could. I think they called them, their 40/60 and 50/70 houses, the numbers being their ages at the time of construction. I wish I had a good rock supply.


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## retiredbop (Mar 9, 2007)

Rose, you already have to the most important things needed to build your house.

(1) The land and the rocks.

(2) The right attitude and determination.

I look forward to pictoral progress reports. And I agree with dave, build a shed first. Maybe something on the order of 10' x 15' or even 12' x 16'. That's small enough to be done in a reasonable amount of time, and big enough to be useful once it's finished.

Best of luck, and good on ya for having the pluck to chase your dream.


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## dave85 (Feb 26, 2005)

Rose,

I forgot the most important part. Stonemasons are artists. I was an amateur.

Stone/rock building is the most satisfying kind of construction there is.

I encourage you to try this.
Dave

ps in reality the Nearings had interns doing most of the work. Not being critical, just a fact.
Dave


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## Farmerwilly2 (Oct 14, 2006)

I know there are several folks on this board that have done stone work so you shouldn't have trouble getting questions answered. My two* first pieces of advice: start hiting the yard sales when they open and auctions, keeping an eye open for tools. The list isn't long, but gotta have them. While looking for your tools, start gathering your stone, you're going to find you need a lot more than you believe once you get started. Get it in all sizes from large building stones to smaller ones for filling and chinking. Third, make sure you have a good plan for your building before you start. I find myself from grading to roofing nails designing it in my head first, then on paper, then building it in my head first. Lots of luck to you, I'm also eager to see your progress photos as you go.

*Got on a roll, make that my first 3 pieces of unsolicited advice


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

I am in awe! I admire your desire & fortitude. Sounds like you have already done some research. I know you can do it. 
I would suggest that you consentrate on what you have accomplished, not what you still have to do. It sounds almost overwhelming. 

What aout electricity & plumbing in the house?


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

Here are a couple of pics of a natural river rock wood stove back wall. The time consuming part is getting all the rocks available and then picking the perfect one for each position. Came out OK as far as I'm concerned. I have more of this river rock available than I know what to do with. I'm thinking of building a sauna/steam room with it. Going to put an old wood stove in one of the walls. The doors will face outside and half of the stove will be inside. Drip water on the hot stove to create steam.


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

Those are wonderful photos, and your stone work is beautiful, so professional, thank you for sharing the pictures. I love the rounded shapes of the river rock, I wish I had that kind of rock on my land. I love the different colors too, very pretty.

I have talked to a couple of people about it, and I get the same responses. First, they give me a 'are you NUTS' look and then proceed to tell me all the reasons I *can't* build a house out of stone. I'm a woman, I don't have experience building, it's too remote, one person with a helper can't do it, and on and on. But if other people build with stone, why can't I? Their arguments are absurd to me. I have a lot of experience in other areas of construction and home renovation, so it's not as if I am totally unfamiliar with the fundamentals. I think their reaction comes more from the fact that most people have never met anyone who has built from stone, and so just assume it's not possible, or possible only with heavy equipment or by large work crews. But people have been building with stone for millennia, why would it be different now? And people in the area where my land is have built plenty with stone, so again, why would it be different now?

I'm aware that it will take me time to dig down to the bedrock. Several days, a week, two. So? And I know it will take time to lay my foundation wall, that the top of each course must be flat, and that takes time to ensure. I have time. I know the walls have to be plumb, square, level, straight. I understand that some rocks should span the thickness of the wall to act as 'ties' to keep the wall strong, and in other places it's a good idea to have rebar inserted, and that vertical joints and stones that do not overlap will also affect the structural integrity. Yes, and I have no doubt about my ability to ensure those things. As someone here said, rocks are heavy but you are only moving one at a time. 

If I go slowly, am vigilant in adhering to the rules of working with stone, why shouldn't I be able to? 

As for water and electricity, I can get electric to the house, that's not a problem. Water will be by catchment, from the house roof.


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## moonwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

RG,
texican has shown some photos and described his stone house building project. 
maybe he'll tune in here, or perhaps send him a quick PM to ask about it.


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

Oh, thank you, I wasn't aware he had a project underway. I will defintely send him a p.m. to see if he can offer any pointers and maybe some pictures so I can see what he's doing. That would be fantastic.


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## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

I think you are very admirable and this is something my wife and I are researching as well. 
Every great journey begins with a single step. 

Your dream house will be built one simple stone at a time.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Rosegarden, sent a PM...










I started working on my walls again last week... instead of digging out some long stretches of footers by hand, I used a backhoe I'd borrowed to get the work done in a hurry. It's about the time of year where I don't have to worry about frost damage.... don't want to get a section of wall done, and it freeze the mortar and ruin it :grump: .

It's slow work, when you're doing it yourself...

But if you've got more time than cash, laying the stone yourself is the way to go... after a day of lifting rocks, and seeing em set in the wall, knowing they'll last for hundreds of years, is a mighty good feeling... and I like knowing that I did it myself!


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

Awesome photos, thanks a bunch! I got your p.m., and will reply and ask you a few questions later today when I have time to sit down and marshal my thoughts.

That rock looks_ exactly _ like the kind I will be using. 

See everybody, it CAN be done! :baby04: 


RoseGarden <------- getting excited by the challenge!


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## Betho (Dec 27, 2006)

Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it! This lady is an inspiration to me

http://www.hollowtop.com/cls_html/stone_home.htm


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## MaineFarmMom (Dec 29, 2002)

Kshobbit said:


> Helen and Scott Nearing built two stone houses. They wrote a book about it too. I figure if they could do it, anyone could. I think they called them, their 40/60 and 50/70 houses, the numbers being their ages at the time of construction. I wish I had a good rock supply.











This is the house at Forest Farm in Harborside, Maine. It's very pretty inside. I'd love to have a stone house.

The main garden is surrounded by a 
Rock wall. 

Good luck RoseGarden!


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## Tana Mc (May 10, 2002)

Go Girl!
I can remember Zell Miller telling a story when he was governor of Ga. His mother was widowed when he and his siblings were still young. Each evening, she would take the mule and a sled and walk over their rocky north Ga farm and pick up rocks. She and her brother built them a house out of rocks.

I am so glad this thread has come up. I have long dreamed of building our own home. We will begin looking for land early next year. SE Ks has an abundance of rocks....... We have miles of stone fences in this area and it has got me to thinking....
Tana Mc


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## Jennifer Brewer (Aug 3, 2005)

Rose, if I lived closer I would come help you. I have built several low retaining walls from feildstone- drystack style. You can certainly do it. I don't know how old you are, but reading some of your posts I could swear that I wrote them myself! I do the same thing; research online and in books, then try to garner some "hardearned" advice from people that have actually done it, and you have to constantly throw out the "so-called" advice from people that have a)never actually done it themselves b)know even less than you because they haven't researched it. 

I don't have the experience to offer much advice on the actual technique, but it sounds like you have gotten much of that from your research. I do have this though.
When it comes to the backbreaking work of moving those big heavy stones from the pile to wall, or from the ground to a wagon to get them to the pile, save some energy by using a furniture dolly to move anything over 25 lbs. If your stones are square you can even stack a couple on that dolly and move them yourself.
The awkward shape of the stone means that sometimes 20 lbs feels like 30, but with a dolly (as opposed to a wheelbarrow or wagon) 50 moves like 30.


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

Thank you Jennifer! That is the kind of advice I am looking for! I have two dollies, one 'regular' sized and a larger one, and I will definitly plan to use them. An excellent idea, thanks again.


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## dave85 (Feb 26, 2005)

and one more tip.

As you lay your stone out, watch for pieces with a flat side. put them aside. They will be for your top courses, corners, windows, doors etc.

please keep a photo record and keep us posted.

Dave


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

I definitely plan to document the progress. I have a good digital camera. 

It will likely not be until this fall before I even make a start. The summer heat will be here before I will be able to arrange to start, and I still feel the need to do more research and assess what tools I have. I have some hand tools like pick axes, shovels, dollies as mentioned, levels, a commercial sized spool of construction string I just happened to find a couple years ago. I don't know if I'm going to opt to buy a small cement mixer or not. If I can find a decent used one, I might. I have decided that I will buy the mortar already mixed, it might cost more but I won't be able to deal with large piles of the additives anyway. I can buy just several sacks of the premixed stuff at a time, as I need it. Anyway, I need to be sure my plans are good ones before I start, and over the summer will give me plenty of time to go and stake it out, gather what I need, and then when the temps cool down a bit, I can start gathering rock.


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## ramber49 (Dec 17, 2006)

My wife an I covered our log house that we built with fieldstone. It took 4 years walls 16 feet hi, an 40 feet long in front an bk. we had never done anything like this before but we wanted in an we figured if we could build the house [that took 3 yrs ] then we could do the rock work. lay out a grid with string on your walls one ft. sq. away from your wall ,the thickness of the wall you want. then when you lay your rock just bring it out to the string an your wall will remain plumb. of course its labor intesive that just makes your home that much more special. use a lot of brick ties in the wall also. we poured a 4 inch concrete wall between the log wall an the rock wall as we went up our walls are 14 inches thick whats time when you are doing it for yourself. plenty of people to say you cant do it , all you need is the right attitude an you will get it done


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

Rose, first thing to do is read, read, read about how to construct stone structures.

The second thing to do is get your foundation and first row absolutely perfect, as this will make the rest of the work relatively easy.

Stone walls must be narrower at the top than the bottom in order to remain stable, and require certain foundation techniques depending on the soil beneath them in order to remain stable long-term. You also need 'tie' stones that go through the thickness of the wall at certain points. Details for doing these things *right* can be found in books.

I have only built small stone garden structures, but knowing the 'engineering' and planning carefully makes a huge difference in avoiding wasted efforts.

And I agree, a friend with a backhoe would be handy...

PS: Earthquakes are rare where you are. Personally I wouldn't build a stone house in my own region (California) because I don't think it would be safe if a big one hit--I don't think they can be properly reinforced against earthquake damage. I think a foundation up to about 3 feet tall can be made to be somewhat earthquake resistant, but taller than that I think would have to have too thick a base to be stable in earthquake country. I guess what I'm saying is to consider what the hazards in your area are and build accordingly.

I've watched videos of boards blasting through brick walls on TV mock-ups of tornado force winds. Dunno if that's a hazard in your area but you might have to overbuild a bit if it is, to keep walls from falling on you in that situation. I imagine a board couldn't go through an undressed stone wall because stone is more massive than brick and the irregular shapes of the stones would tend to dissipate the force more diversely. But the wall as a whole could flop over, and this could be Bad.


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

I won't need a backhoe, I don't think. The bedrock is only about 1 to 1 1/2 feet below the soil where I want the house to go, and I think I can get that handled myself. And the money for a backhoe might not be do-able.


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## djberg (Mar 14, 2007)

Kshobbit mentioned "Helen and Scott Nearing built two stone houses" and MaineFarmMom send a photo of one. 

As I remember, those were not conventional stone construction. The Nearings used wooden slip forms, similar to the way high-rise buildings are built. They dropped stones in and poured concrete around them in areas two feet high, or so, at a time. That saved an enormous amount of time in carefully fitting stones. It also created an attractive and very strong stone wall.

You can see what looks like mortar joints in the photos actually protrude out from the stones. That's the concrete, protruding to the line of the wooden slip forms.

There were some tricks to it. I wish that I knew them. What hept the concrete off the face of the stones? Does anyone have one of the old Nearing books that explains the process?


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Yes, the Nearings used slipform, and that is what my primary experience with stone is in, too. With slipform, you usually have a "good side" to the wall, where you place the rocks so that the most attractive side is where you want to look at it; you set the stone in the form, and then pour concrete around and behind them. Structural form and taking care not to overlap joints is still a consideration, but not so much as with conventional stone walls, I don't think. After the form is moved, you clean the face of the wall, and if you want to, point the joints with mortar. 

A curved wall is stronger than a straight one.


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## djberg (Mar 14, 2007)

Dear Chamoisee,

What keeps your concrete from filling in the spaces between the fronts of the stones and your slip form? Do you spray release oil or wax on the stone faces? On the inside of the slip form? How high are your sections of slip form? 

I really like this idea. You get all of the strength of a reinforced concrete wall if you add rebars. It looks like a carefully laid solid stone wall, but with much less stone. 

How much time/cost would you guess you save over a conventional stone wall? You must have acquired skill at picking and placing the stones. How did you learn how to do it?

Don


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## MMyers1 (Aug 26, 2002)

Kshobbit said:


> *I wish I had a good rock supply.*


Come on down.... I got plenty for ya!! Pick your own!  

Mark
North end of the Texas Hill Country


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

From what I've read, slipforming does leave concrete stains on the face of the rock... and unless you want drippy lines on your beautiful rock wall, you have to spend quite a bit of time cleaning.

I know I've spilt cement on my rock wall, and it takes forever to clean up.

I've modified the slipform method, laying stone on the 'good side' for aesthetics and strength.....sometimes bracing with poles and boards and whatnot... after the mortared stone has a chance to set up, raise the frame on the back side, and pour concrete... everythings bonds together perfectly and I don't have to spend hours cleaning up the face rock.


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## Rocky Fields (Jan 24, 2007)

Hey.

Advise to RoseGarden: The use of a dolly is worthless in most field work. Unless you're wheeling across smooth hard ground, the wheelbarrow with a pneumatic tire is preferred. The wheelbarrow can also be used to mix mud(mortar) in. I would recommend a mudbox over the wheelbarrow because you can mix larger batches.

There seems to be a misconception in some of the posts here...you use a mortar mixer to mix mortar, not a cement mixer. There is a difference. To remove mortar stains on rock a process called scratching is used. It involves the use of a water-muriatic acid mix and a margin trowel.

For the strongest mortar-stone wall, the mortar joints should be as small as possible.

RF


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

We're building of stone and concrete for our 252 sq-ft tiny cottage.
We did reinforced concrete slab (RC) on the ledge for the base. 
Two of the walls are RC concrete 8" thick and half height to the windows.
The majority of the walls are dry stacked concrete block (CMU).
Below and above the windows we did a steel reinforced bond beam.
The roof is a poured in place 1.5" thick barrel vault of ferro-cement (FC) concrete.
Inside we're using extensive FC, brick and granite.
The outside will be field stone - something we have a loooot of - This is Vermont. We grow rocks professionally. 

All of the concrete is reinforced with PVA fibers as well as rebar and 661010 welded wire mesh (WWM) in many places as appropriate. It's all fairly easy work that is suitable for a whole family project - we have a 3 year old, 10 year old and 14 year old all of whom help to their ability. They love the project of building their own house.

We picked rock and concrete for reasons of durability, thermal mass, cost, easy for us to do ourselves, minimal maintenance and strength. In our location it is very shallow to bedrock so we actually attached right to the mountain. We started November 6th and closed in in the end of December. We could move in now but I want to wait until the inside is finished so we're not living in the work mess - more efficient and healthier. Besides, we have another old farm house just down the hill so there is no rush. Our total cost so far is about $3,500 for all materials. We provide the labor.

You can see some photos here:

http://sugarmtnfarm.com/blog/2007/02/tiny-cottage-views.html

and there are other posts on my blog about the various aspects of our journey to the new house.

Eventually the outside will all be stone with the house forming the back plate of the slip form for the pour.

Stone is heavy. Stone lasts. It builds strong muscles and heavy bones. Excellent exercise and far cheaper than a gym.  Go slowly. Work wisely. Use your muscles and skeleton properly as the levers that they are. Don't over do it. Remember you're not russian, er, I mean rushing. 

One thing we have done is to build lots of little test projects over the years like animal sheds to try out ideas and get skills in the necessary techniques for the things we wanted to do. It lets us start small.

We have tractor with a backhoe & bucket loader - that makes a world of difference at times like for moving a pallet of CMU or large rocks as well as digging, driveway prep, etc. We have a tractor because we farm. Or is it the other way around. In any case it isn't an absolute necessity but it does make some things go much faster.

Other good tools are: hammerdrill SDS, angle grinder, random orbital sander var spd, rebar cutter, hand nippers, 4 lb sledge, feathers and wedges, brick splitting chisel, battery hand drill variable speed reversible, rubber mallet, mortar mixer (we have three so we can go fast some days), skillsaw with a diamond blade... other stuff. The right tool makes a big difference over and over again.

Tip: Learn to build forms & scaffolding well and don't build too tall. I'm going to break that rule when I build a seven story stone tower. Walter's Folly. 

Regarding earthquakes, a stone/concrete house can be to be far stronger and better able to withstand earthquakes as well as any other disaster. Just don't build it in a basin or a swamp. 

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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## Triffin (Apr 20, 2005)

Rose ..

If you have the time .. consider being an apprentice or laborer for
a local stone mason .. you'll learn everything you'll need to know ..

Triff ..


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

djberg said:


> Dear Chamoisee,
> 
> What keeps your concrete from filling in the spaces between the fronts of the stones and your slip form? Do you spray release oil or wax on the stone faces? On the inside of the slip form? How high are your sections of slip form?
> 
> ...


I didn't do these all by myself. I helped my husband. 

The concrete mixture was pretty thick. He used broken glass (recycling it) as aggregate, as well as sand and gravel. It was pretty sludgy. We laid stones in, being careful to make the side that showed attractive, and poured some concrete on top, laid more stones, etc etc. There was rebar in the walls. The forms are moved while the concrete is still damp, and so there is a chance to clean the face of the wall somewhat. That said, he didn't seem to care a whole lot about the asthetics. My ex is a function over form kind of guy.

The forms were/are about 12" high and...I don't know...maybe 3-4' long? He had several forms, including curved ones that can be used to make round structures, such as towers. For those, you just spiral around... We didn't use any release oil or type of grease. You just unscrew/loosen the form and move it over to work on the next section of wall. 

I had already laid cobblestone paths before starting on walls....and was interested in walls so had read about it...but it's not all that hard (at least with slip-form, it isn't). You try to place the stones so that they don't slant outwards, not to repeat seams, stagger joints, place large rocks over groups of smaller ones, and vice versa, and so on. 

I think it was a lot faster than a dry wall, and probably faster than a wall with mortar, too, because there's a little more leeway, and the form helps with keeping it straight (of course you still need to keep it plumb and straight and all that jazz). It allowed the use of rocks that may not have been suitable otherwise, and it also used up all that broken glass, and I think we were able to stretch the concrete mix farther that way...but I don't know. My ex was about as tight as a guy could be...so I'm guessing that it's pretty danged cost effective. 

Ken Kern has written quite a bit about slip form construction, and in fact my ex had gone to at least one workshop by him. The books are still available...the Owner Built Home, and there are others.


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## djberg (Mar 14, 2007)

Chamoisee,

Thank you very much. I found Ken Kern's books and a bunch of other books on slip-forming stone walls and conventional stone masonry here:
http://www.dirtcheapbuilder.com/stonebuilding.html

Don


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## Jennifer Brewer (Aug 3, 2005)

Rocky Fields said:


> Hey.
> 
> Advise to RoseGarden: The use of a dolly is worthless in most field work. Unless you're wheeling across smooth hard ground, the wheelbarrow with a pneumatic tire is preferred. The wheelbarrow can also be used to mix mud(mortar) in. I would recommend a mudbox over the wheelbarrow because you can mix larger batches.
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to argue here, but the when you are a woman, hauling rocks in a wheelbarrow is difficult. If I were a big strong guy like you, I would do a wheelbarrow every day, but being 5'2", and barely over 130 lbs, means that if I hit a rut in my barrow, that bugger tries to throw me to the ground! I agree that the dolly is difficult over bumby terrain, but you can pull it backwards and that helps alot. Also, the dolly is just for short trips, to make it to either the wagon or the wall. 

I gotta say though, fot he smaller stones, that wheelbarrow is definatly the way to go!


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

I agree with Jennifer on this one... women often have to devise different methods of doing the same job than men, because our musculature is different. I don't have the bulging pectorals and deltoids and large masses of biceps and triceps that men have. Women's bodies are different, and we often have to use leverage instead of just brute strength. I speak from experience in other areas. I've had wheelbarrows dump over when carrying large loads and hitting a bump, simply because I didn't have the upper body strength to keep it upright. Dollies simply pivot, and like Jennifer says, you can pull them backwards which allows a woman to use her thigh muscles if necessary, which are larger muscles and able to do more work. I'm not trying to argue either, I've just had my share of wheelbarrows dump over on rough ground. I think dollies would be a good option considering the terrain of my land.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Jennifer and Rose... you don't have to use mongo rocks... nothing says you can't use "Jennifer size" or "Rose size" rocks. Use the size you're comfortable with. I have acquired some building stone that was too large for me, and tried to lift em anyway, and paid the price in a sore back. I've seen some beautiful stone walls consisting of nothing more than brick size or smaller stones.

As far as moving more than one rock at a time, a 4 wheeler or a lawn mower even with a tiny trailer would move em just fine. I've looked at some of the small hydraulic lifters that oil field hands have on their trucks. Basically just a small boom, with extenders, that's mounted on the truck... seen em with winches powered and hand cranked. Have thought about mounting one on my front end loader, to place heavy stones high off the ground, instead of muscling em (my back muscles are shot :grump: ).

I've got a cement mixer. I know it's not as efficient as a mortar mixer, but my budget won't allow for both. I have to finesse the mortar mixing a bit, but it works.

Walter, you are ambitious. I've been 'drawing' plans for a tower for several years now, and if I got 50' I was lucky... seven stories... I'm drooling here. I've visited your site before, but haven't seen any mention of your future tower. Are you looking at steel for superstructure or oak? I like the idea of oak... would be great if I could find some white oak beams. Have access to cypress, but oak is stronger...


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Mark,
what kind of rock do you have? I assume a limestone... any 'hill cuts' or flatland, with rock on top of the ground.

I'd love to find someone in the Hill Country with granite outcropping on the surface... 

I'm building a stone house in one of the few places in Texas without any rocks to speak of. We have some limey sandstone boulders, but they weather away too quickly out in the weather.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

RoseGarden said:


> I agree with Jennifer on this one... women often have to devise different methods of doing the same job than men, because our musculature is different. I don't have the bulging pectorals and deltoids and large masses of biceps and triceps that men have. Women's bodies are different, and we often have to use leverage instead of just brute strength.


You underestimate men. Yes, I have much larger muscles and denser bones than you probably do but I also use my body's levers optimally. My wife often comments on that I know how to lift and it makes a difference - I teach her techniques. Without good technique she can lift 50 to 100 lbs. With good technique she can lift 100 to 200 lbs. Yes, I can lift many times that due to my stronger muscles but both of us work at using the proper technique to optimize our lifting and hauling. To say that men just rely on brute strength is to demean us. We do have brains.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

At 5'2" and 120 lbs, I have moved very heavy loads, including rocks, with a wheelbarrow, also a child's size wagon (it was a huge slab of rock that I couldn't get into the wheelbarrow) and a garden cart. Our land was hilly, bumpy, and full of ruts. yOu can't just wheel it along m indlessly, you DO have to watch out, be careful, etc, and for bigger rocks, I'd sacrifice the maneuverability of the wheelbarrow for the easier load of the garden cart, but it CAN be done. Dollies have their place too. I especially like them for transporting stacks of boxes or 55 gallon barrels of water, for which I would NOT want to use a wheelbarrow. 

My personal experience has been that women tend to underestimate themselves. You don't need sheer muscle, you need to be able to figure out the easiest way to move the rocks with the least effort. Lastly, the gluteus maximus is the largest, strongest muscle in the entire body, and most of us women are adequately endowed there.


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

Oh good God Walter, I wasn't trying to demean anyone  When I said 'brute strength' I meant it figuratively, not that men were brutes.  I just figured I couldn't have a thread without someone being offended.  

Anyway, Chamoisee summed up what I was trying to say probably better than I did. 

Thanks everyone for their input, it is greatly appreciated.


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## Terrabus (Jul 7, 2004)

I'm a brute, but I'm charming and not bad looking, but in a brutish way  

So, I'm in limestone country, where it's not that old and not that good to build with. HOwever, we have limestone construction around here, which tells me someplace not far away is good stuff. I've seen the method of harvesting good blocks out of a quarry and it's not too complicated. If I can find a good cropping, I'd like to try my hand at it.


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## MaineFarmMom (Dec 29, 2002)

Terrabus said:


> I'm a brute, but I'm charming and not bad looking, but in a brutish way


I bet most of the women here would swoon for a brute long before a suit.  

Ladies, I have a huge wheelbarrow that's fairly easy to move because it has two wheels. It was a little more expensive but it's well worth the money.


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## Jennifer Brewer (Aug 3, 2005)

I think my best and worse "wheelbarrow dump" story was when I had a BIG load of UNAGED , WET, chicken manure and bedding- just trying to get across the back yard to the compost pile- and when that booger leaned to far to the left, I couldn't hold it up! But I tried, and didn't give up until the last minute, when I landed right in "the heap of things" as they like to say! It was in my hair, on my clothes, every where! Not to mention I had to pick up what spilled! DH never laughed so hard...


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## Jennifer Brewer (Aug 3, 2005)

I think that the one thing we can all agree on, is this. Your body is going to be your Number 1 tool. You just need to be careful to remember that this will be a long process, and your body will have to endure for the long haul. Whatever you find to be YOUR best way of doing things, do that, so long as you are protecting your number 1 asset. 

And again, i sure do admire what you are doing!


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## kennyb79 (Nov 6, 2010)

so thats it for this thread??? I want to see some pictures of the stone house. I too read all of the books and did all of the research...also check out "the art of building a house of stone" one of my favorites as well as the stonebuilders primer...my wife finally bought me a small mixer and said "go for it" so we did...and I'm glad I did it...the look of stone is so nice. It amazes me that I drive around and see stone walls in every field, or I go by somebodys house and they've laid a stone garden wall...but mention building a house and they think your crazy!!! just plan it out read all of the books and go for it. there are rocks of all sizes, trust me, there were some I didn't use because they were to big, and there was one my nephew picked out for me that almost killed me. the majority of mine were smaller and easy to carry. don't forget you end up moving them about 3 times before you get them into the wall.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

it took a long time, and by the time I was done I was in much better shape than when I started...


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## Rusty'sDog (Oct 14, 2010)

Kenny, Thank you for bumping this old (forgotten?) thread. Your photos prove that this is not just a pipe dream, but something that is *doable*. You have built a home that your grandchildren will be proud of years to come. Great job!


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## used2bcool13 (Sep 24, 2007)

All I can say is WOW, that looks great, I cannot even imagine doing that, kudos to you.

Great house.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Welcome Kenny
Looked at your pics... 
Appears you had a form on the inside, and laid stone on the outside, and then filled in with concrete. Is that right?

Did you end up building interior walls on your concrete side? Insulation between that and the finish walls?


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## kennyb79 (Nov 6, 2010)

well texican, it seems that I tried a variety of methods. when I started the walls in the footer, In was using flat stones in the slipforms and I wasn't happy with the look and the mess oozing down. My dad suggested laying the stones up in a more traditional method and filling in behind them (between the stone and form) with concrete. this worked pretty well, but there was a lot of pointing to me done on the stones...fixing the mortar joints, and it took a lot of concrete. I stopped about halfway up for the winter, thats when I read the book "the art of building a stone house" there they recommended going back to the slipforms, but laying a bead of sand between the form and the stonework in the front. also about this time, I decided to stop using the flat stones from the stone wall out back, and started using a lot of stones from the lake...my sister has property along lake ontario, and her and her neighbors end up with a great amount of stone on their boat-docks after the winter, that they have to remove. I took my pickup up kids, and cleaned off every boat launch I could...once I started one their neighbor would ask me to do theirs...and so on. I even had one guy bring me a dumptruckload of stone he had been piling up for years. These rocks were beautiful, round, clean and smoothed from years of rolling around in the lake. These stones, in conjunction with the new method, really made a difference my second year of laying stones. f you look at the photos, the stones under the windows are different than the stones to the sides of the windows. also I made the big wall inside the house out of lake stones. 

Also, to answer your question. the inside walls are studded 2x6 construction with insulation. all said and done, I think I spent a lot of extra money because I really have 12" thick concrete and stone siding, but I know it will never go anywhere...and I've already told my kids they have to keep the house forever annd tell their grandkids how we built it together.

sorry for rambling, but I'm glad to be able to breath new life into this old posting...anybody want to share any "new" photos of their projects... love to see them.

sure wish I would have found these posts when I was building.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Well, shades of Christmas past.... the lady known as Rose Garden is my second cousin. Her father and my father are first cousins, so if I'm not mistaken that makes us second cousins, and we practically grew up together. She married a handsome Mennonite widower with children and now lives in Nebraska. I believe they have no computer access. I get cards and letters occasionally. When I send them a Christmas card I will try to remember to let her know her old post has come to life again. She would be tickled, I think. 

Kenny, your photos are just incredible. What a beautiful house you have built, I bet it will last for generations. I really admire folks like you who do such beautiful work, it's just amazing.


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## Jane Blacksmith (Aug 3, 2017)

Thanks, Retiredbop, for your story about you and your dad and brothers. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it, and it is an encouragement to those who want to build a stone structure.

I have two ways I evaluate a daunting task: 1) if any human has ever done it before then I can do it, and 2) the old expression "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time." In the case of a stone structure: one stone at a time.

I would never dissuade anyone from achieving anything. If it can be done, do it.




retiredbop said:


> Our house burned down when I was 13. Over the next five years my family built a new house, one section each year. The year we laid the field stone foundation for the boys rooms my dad was in a full body cast from his knees to his armpits. Made him rather cantakerous. But the work could not stop. Under his supervison 6 teenage boys built a 3 walled foundation 14" wide, 7' tall, and 28' per side. Being the oldest and tallest I was the one in the hole laying the stone. It seemd a like a tremendous waste of time back then but before we laid rock one, my dad had us build a fieldstone outhouse. (We already had a wooden one. Why do this Dad?)
> 
> Everytime those walls got out of plumb or out of square we had to tear out that section and rebuild it the right way. Well, by the time those walls were three feet tall we didn't have to tear any more out after that.
> 
> ...


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

RoseGarden said:


> Awesome photos, thanks a bunch! I got your p.m., and will reply and ask you a few questions later today when I have time to sit down and marshal my thoughts.
> 
> That rock looks_ exactly _ like the kind I will be using.
> 
> ...


Go for it...I've just done walkways, knee walls, and stairs in stone. Unfortunately, I can't do a stone house here due to seismic issues. 
I'd collect my rocks from our neighborhood ditches in winter...be my pre dinner rock hunt. A couple hundred pounds in the back of SUV (had plywood lined so I didn't ruin car) every evening before dusk. 
Since I live in BC, rock is what we are....very little soil. And every spring, new rocks would calve off roadside cliff (freezing/thawing). 

I'd definitely collect the stones first, a huge pile, so you know what you got, and what style you can do. If you start off without getting a good sense of the stone shapes your working with, your walls can change flavor and color (not a bad thing, I just like uniformity). 
Plus, having a big pile is just plain easier to find a specific shape than making do...end up using more mortar than required. 
Shame I don't have a profile pic of stairs...they were the best of my work. 










I then tried a variation of dry stack method (core was concrete).


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Rocks come in 4 sizes......
one handers
two handers
bucket rocks (loader)
Leverites ....as in "leave her right here"

Very pretty....and solid...but a young man's job. IMHO


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Never built a house but have done a fair amount of field stone veneer work myself. Fence rows and wood lots around here are full of the stuff so it's not hard to come by and it's free, but it's tough job gathering it all up. Unlike brick or block, field stone won't absorb moisture so you can only raise the wall a course or two, then you must let the mortar set or wall will tip over. You will also use much more mortar than you would with brick or block, and there is some real craftsmanship required to keep the faces of the stone clean and mortar joints somewhat uniform and nice looking. You select rocks of the proper size and shape to fit the spaces.

I keep an old stiff paint brush and a whisk broom on hand as I work to clean stone faces and work back the mortar joints. After all is said and done, a good acid washing and some clear sealer will really bring out the colors of the stone. (Note - Stay away from the parrafin based sealers like sold at Home Depot). Not much is prettier than a good field stone job in my opinion.


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