# Reality of survival diet



## Brokeneck (Mar 1, 2011)

I am halfway through my trial run of a month on only a survival diet. Basically only eating what I have in storage and can cook with limited time and resources. It is alot harder than I expected. I have been keeping up with the chores around the little acreage. Feeding goats, tending garden, as well as downing a couple dead tree's to get ready to cut and split. I have limited the help on the chores from my wife and kids as they dont need to lose any weight and only 2 weeks in I am down almost 28 pounds. I'm a fairly large guy at 5"10" and started at 255. I'm down to 227 as of this morning. I am getting pretty run down and sleep is a major factor. I cant seem to get enough of it! hard to get to sleep and even harder to come out of it in the morning. I am guessing here but I would estimate my calorie intake around 800 to 900 a day. Starting to feel weak, and sluggish. I'm not trying to lose weight it is just so much work to prepare a meal from stored grains and with rationing spices and meat to a extreme low there just isnt much to it. here in My state the only veggies ready are a few green beans and some lettuce. I also have the added benefit of still having running water and electricity. I'm not useing it for cooking though. Just sanitation. Thats another whole can of worms by itself.

I have come to the realization that those who think just because they have a stack of buckets with rice and wheat are in for a really rude awakening if they really have to depend on it.

I'll post my weight loss totals and how I feel after my month is over.

Brokeneck


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Who's survival diet is this, that your following? For crying out loud, eat some thing.


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## hsmom2four (Oct 13, 2008)

Brokeneck, can you tell us exactly what your meals consist of? Ingredients, amounts, etc? 
I agree with SquashNut--you need more calories--eat something!


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## Shrarvrs88 (May 8, 2010)

well, hang in there, and I think this is a good excersise for folks, to see if they really have what they need when SHTF. Keep track of everything and make sure you fill the holes when you are done with this.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

It's a good exercise alright.

I think you may need to increase your protein intake though. You shouldn't be dropping weight that fast on a grain diet. Heck, grain is what they use to fatten cows so it's meant to put weight on, not take it off.

Go ahead and pick some purslane and lambsquarters and throw that into the rice. Drop some chicken eggs in there as well while the rice is boiling and that'll help.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

One week of this would have me correcting course and figuring out where i went wrong. Do it now while you can. Experimenting is all and good, But what if some thing based in reality went wrong tommarrow. What good are you going to do your family. It could end up so you are dependant on your family, instead of being the rock they can depend on.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

if yer working hard, you need more than 1500 calories to maintain proper health, and if yer just trying to lose weight you still need above 1000 if yer just doing light chores... ifin you were sitting behind a desk then less than 1000 could be alright as long as yer doctor said so..... health is nothing to mess around with, being over weight is one thing, trying to lose it all in a month is not a good thing.... 

As a personal trainer for awhile a few years ago, I could generally take anyone and get them to lose 2-4 inches around their waistline [depending upon what they started with and how eager they were to lose it] but recommended they did not stop eating properly and drink more fluids, stop the bad habits and they would see results, not as much in loss of weight cause they built muscle at the same time.... but losing a couple inches is easy if motivated enough..... my wife taught karate and kickboxing [former world champion kickboxer and retired professional boxer] and we helped a lot of kids and young adults get on the right track, including helping a few kick the smoking habit cause they just couldnt keep enough wind up and still work out if they smoked and they wanted to kickbox.....

Anyhow watch yourself, drink enough eltorlytes to keep going, just water will tend to flush the good things out of the system along with the bad, and you need to flush it as you lose weight as that is where the toxins are stored... which is why some folks get sickly as they lose weight. Consult a doctor before you lose more than 30 pounds in my opinion.

William
Idaho


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## Brokeneck (Mar 1, 2011)

So far I've been grinding a little wheat and corn together with a egg and water and frying a kind of johny cake, about 3 decent size cakes. very little oil, just enough to keep from sticking on old cast iron pan. Last night I added a quarter pint of canned venison and made kind of a french dip with the makeshift johny cakes and deer sandwich. I add different spices to them and even some diced green beans. That has been supper. Breakfast has been mostly fresh fruit from trees. ALOT of mulberries. Got a huge mulberry tree close to goat barn so when I crank up water for the goats I stand under the tree and eat what I can reach from the ground. I love mullberries but really need to add in another fruit. Getting burned out on the same thing. Really dont have much time for lunch and havent really seemed hungry. I have quite a few salads with no dressing or oils. Have added dandelion greens and buds to the fresh garden lettuce and it really is quite tasty! Health wise I feel better with the weight loss but lack of energy is telling me I need a few more calories to be able to work the way I need to.
Brokeneck


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

SquashNut said:


> One week of this would have me correcting course and figuring out where i went wrong. Do it now while you can. Experimenting is all and good, But what if some thing based in reality went wrong tommarrow. What good are you going to do your family. It could end up so you are dependant on your family, instead of being the rock they can depend on.


I agree. It's a worthwhile experiment, but sticking to the experiment "just because" is not worth it. What you really want to get out of this is to figure out what's gone wrong and how to fix it. Just keeping on isn't going to give you that. 

Did I read you right that you're eating 900 calories a day? I'm a woman, and I have a sit-on-my-butt-all-day job, and when I ate 900 calories a day a couple of years ago, I could barely function. For a man to be working hard on that - I'd seriously be worried. Seriously. Get a steak right now and THEN figure out what needs to be changed. And definitely report back!


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Time to end the experiment and start beefing up your stores! We live off our storage food and what I grow except for rare trips to the store for some fresh stuff like oranges and bananas. My storage food includes home canned meats, dried veggies, dried fruits, LOTS of seasonings, tea, coffee, sugar, lard (from the pigs I raised), dried potatoes, rice, several varieties of beans, wheat, oats, barley, molasses, chocolate, powdered milk, etc. We use mostly goat milk though and we have poultry for eggs and meat.

I've made using our storage and home raised foods a part of our life style. I always cook from scratch too. We don't eat out or buy convenience foods. I do occasionally get already baked bread, but usually bake my own from the wheat I grind.

You should be eating better than that!


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

Sounds like your preps didn't include enough diversity of things, nor the attention to protein and veggies/fruits. Certainly, you could can fruits, and dehydrate or can meat. I think your experiment just shows that your preps were lacking. Maybe you could forego the experiment at this point and start to build a better pantry and the ability to renew those supplies each harvest season.


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## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

I would say that you're experiment has proven a success. To a certain degree. It has shown you that you are lacking in your storage, diversity of storage, and number of calories you can "partake" of each day! 

Remember, eat what you store and store what you eat. Your food storage shouldn't be anything that your family wouldn't be willing to eat along with you!


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Not only do you need to boost your protein, to prevent muscle loss-you need it it too protect your kidneys from all the muscle you body is surviving off of.Drink alot of water . Don't forget your Brain runs on Carbs. Drink Nettle Tea, its good for you. You better adjust your eating now, this is bad for you.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Brokeneck, the lack of energy is a warning sign. You have already worn down your body and you are ripe to catch any germ that goes by!

Before you get yourself good and sick, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE raise your calorie count above 1000 and get yourself some more protien! 1 protien exchange is simply not enough. In time you will lose muscle mass.

Your biggest prep is your body and your health. 1500 calories would be the safest, but a 1000 calorie diet can be balanced if you work it out with care. And, if your protien is one egg a day you have not balanced your diet.

Reread what Blu3duk has written. If you take his advice then you will get stonger instead of weaker, you will lose fat but not muscle, and you will stay healthier instead of catching the next virus to go by!

That being said, I LOVE your idea of eating corn cakes for breakfast. And, if you made a bigger batch of them you could have cold corn cakes for lunch. Only, you need to triple your protien intake, yes?


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

I'm not going to address the limited number of calories that you need to be able to function... Others have told you what yhou need to know about that subject.

Many people can their own prepared foods to enable them to prepare quick and healthy meals in a SHTF situation. I also store some of the more expensive "quick rices" and canned beans. It eliminates a lot of the soaking and really saves me when I forget to soak them ahead of time. 

Another thing is food preparation... If you grind only enough grain for a single day, then you are wasting your efforts. Take some time and grind enough for a week or two. Store it in an airtight container or bag. If you have to soak beans, then make a ritual out of it and do it everynight before you go to bed. It will become a habit. Bake some cookies or a pan of brownies. This will provide you with a daily snack for energy to power all of those chores that you're doing. Make some noodles as a change of pace or make a pan of biscuits to supplement a few meals.

Think about some additional ways to prepare your foods. Some staples in my house include cheese sauce, spices, gravy, tomato sauce, barbecue sauce, mayonnaise, liquid smoke, etc... This enables me to make the same foods taste differently. You are currently experiencing food fatigue, which could cause serious issues in a SHTF situation. Try making oatmeal in the morning for breakfast. You can flavor it with spices, fruit, maple syrup, honey, etc... Each day can be a bit different. Slather some peanut butter on a biscuit to go along with your breakfast. Keep hydrated and don't be afraid to use a bit of salt in your food...All of those chores will dehydrate you in the summer.

If there aren't many veggies ready in the garden, then break out some canned fruit or veggies. If you don't currently stock them, then start. The purpose of your preps is to supplement your family in the event of a SHTF event. You aren't supposed to have to live on the same few of ingredients for years on end.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Dude, to start with you were about 70lbs overweight from day one. Of course you're tired and struggling, you didn't need to do an experiment to figure that out! You're way out of shape. You gotta be lean and mean to survive..it's called 'survival of the fittest' for a reason.

I do applaud your effort and if nothing else it should show you that you need a major lifestyle change. The fat guys will be the first to go...I have a few picked out locally already.


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## NewGround (Dec 19, 2010)

This sounds like a diet plan I could live with. Get a few more preps together and do something similar. Will need to plan more nutritious meals in advance but hey if I can lose 30 pounds while testing my preps then I call that a plus...

Nutrition planning is also important in our preps... If you're in a lost survival situation you eat what you have to but when you plan your preps you should be also doing some meal planning, IMHO...


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

kirkmcquest said:


> I do applaud your effort and if nothing else it should show you that you need a major lifestyle change. The fat guys will be the first to go...I have a few picked out locally already.


It's been proven.. Fat guys live longer than the thinnies. Our "less efficient" metabolisms go farther on less fuel that's why we are fat eating the same calories.

The health craze of today is total hyperbole. In lean times the lean will die in 3-4 weeks. We fatties will be how you are now in the same time.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

stanb999 said:


> It's been proven.. Fat guys live longer than the thinnies. Our "less efficient" metabolisms go farther on less fuel that's why we are fat eating the same calories.
> 
> The health craze of today is total hyperbole. In lean times the lean will die in 3-4 weeks. We fatties will be how you are now in the same time.


You'll never survive the initial phase, you need endurance and speed. Going without alot of food will be a shock to your system.

No, you want to be able to hit the ground running. You want to be ready to work hard physically on less food from the opening bell. Plus, carrying around all those calories..you'll be a target.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

That settles it. I am going to go make a sandwich right now. Be back later.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

We been stocking to the point if we lived off our preps we would gain weight , if not careful :teehee: Got a small grocer store stashed again .:whistlin:

When you were raised on beans taters and cornbread it don't take a lot to get by . We use to store our onions in the barn loft till they dried out . I guess to us we though everyone had a supply of food i remember being happy to see the garden come in as we had a bigger choice of fresh food . Or i should say only time we had fresh produce .


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

stanb999 said:


> It's been proven.. Fat guys live longer than the thinnies. Our "less efficient" metabolisms go farther on less fuel that's why we are fat eating the same calories.
> 
> The health craze of today is total hyperbole. In lean times the lean will die in 3-4 weeks. We fatties will be how you are now in the same time.


True, some are carrying a years supply on their bellies.

Seriously though, if you're 70 pounds overweight you have an extra 210,000 calories you can miss out on than someone at ideal weight. (each pound being approx 3000 calories.
I seriously would want to be carrying some extra weight if TSHTF.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

hmmm. Sounds like a good expiriment...its not a failure at all, you are learning what you need to "beef" up on in your preps. Lots of foods dehydrate well with a home dehydrator, you can even dehydrate whole meals then its really easy to prep and cook them when needed...a little hot water to cover, let sit 10-15 minutes and dinner is DONE. This is how I do my backpacking meals. For ideas you can get some books on making backpacking meals. They are designed to be full of calories, carbs, protien, fat as its a pretty intense workout backpacking (one can burn 5,000 or more cals a day depending on the rugedness of the terrain one is backpacking through)

of course the easy meals wouldn't last forever, but they would be useful for hecktic days after a disaster or if you have to bug out and be on the move untill things settle down and the garden and livestock start producing.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I do believe I'd plan on my survival diet being around 4k/cal a day, knowing if things went really south, I'd be doing all the manual labor (and hoarding my diesel fuel for plowing and emergency driving). 

I daresay, you'd soon starve on 8 or 900 calories a day, sitting on your tuchus reading or contemplating the mysteries of life...

If I needed to shed the weight, I'd work harder, cut out the carbs, and excess calories. Working harder on half, a third, or a quarter of usual caloric intake could precipitate medical problems, unless you know what your doing. Having a heart attack in a prepping dry run would be a bummer...

If we were in a real survival mode, and my caloric intake were below 1k/cal day, do believe I'd only do emergency work...


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

The goal should be to continue eating pretty much as you do today minus the extras that aren't good for us anyway. Margarine, butter, cheese, fresh eggs and milk will be used up and much missed but we can survive without them. We have all food groups stored and we eat what we store so no huge changes here. Dh will go into Pepsi withdrawal but he'll not have to survive on 800 calories a day.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Brokeneck said:


> So far I've been grinding a little wheat and corn together with a egg and water and frying a kind of johny cake, about 3 decent size cakes. very little oil, just enough to keep from sticking on old cast iron pan. Last night I added a quarter pint of canned venison and made kind of a french dip with the makeshift johny cakes and deer sandwich. I add different spices to them and even some diced green beans. That has been supper. Breakfast has been mostly fresh fruit from trees. ALOT of mulberries.


You know, I figure you're only getting about calories 620; and out of that, only 182 calories is protein. 

2 cup mulberries is only have 120 calories; 
An egg has 90 calories;
1/4 pt. (which is only 1/2 cup) of venison is 92 calories. 
1 tablespoons of oil has 119 calories;
1 cup total of ground wheat and corn is around 200 calories.​
You need more calories and, especially protein.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

28 pounds in 2 weeks is way too much weight to lose.

Two years ago my sweetie (who was also a member of this board) put himself on a survival diet very similar to the diet and method that you're doing now. Basically only eating what he had in storage and could cook with limited time and resources. He was in Missouri so I didn't know he was doing it, I found out later from his friends that he wanted to surprise me. He died of a massive coronary attack within a month of starting his survival diet, 2 months before he was due to move west here for us to get married.

Everything you're describing are all symptoms of food fatigue and inanition so you could be getting close to renal and/or heart failure now.

I hope you will at least double your calories and protein intake now, don't continue the way you're going for another 2 weeks. You're at risk of not coming back from the edge.

.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

kirkmcquest said:


> You'll never survive the initial phase, you need endurance and speed. Going without alot of food will be a shock to your system.
> 
> No, you want to be able to hit the ground running. You want to be ready to work hard physically on less food from the opening bell. Plus, carrying around all those calories..you'll be a target.


What makes you think overweight people don't have endurance or speed?
Of course it will. It will be your death nail as a thinnie. The overweight don't necessarily eat more than the fragile thinnie. 

Maybe you want to run... I'll have work to do. I already do hard work everyday. A target of who? the bear after he ate all the thinnies. IF your saying as a 6' tall 165 lb (smack dab middle of the BMI) male with a pre teen boy like figure your going to kill off a 6' 230 pound male (obese on the BMI) your delusional.

P.S. your right not to worry about zombies as a thinnie... You wouldn't even make good soup bones.


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## Brokeneck (Mar 1, 2011)

I wasnt really that big as in "Fat" to begin with. waist started at a 36 dont really know where it is now. My company is a Masonry contracting business so I stay pretty muscular with the kind of work I do. Shoulder to shoulder I'm 27" wide so weight distribution is fairly even. little bit of a gut but wouldnt call myself fat. Still bench over 300, not braggin just sayin watch out skinny guys, Someday you might be "The other white meat"!!!:hysterical:

I went ahead and took a little advice from you all and busted open a jar of my dehydrated mixed veggies. They are soaking as we speak. I will make up a pot of Venison stew with the remainder of the canned deer. I am going to stick to this for the month but will be really watching my intake closer. My reasoning for limiting down so low was to be realistic with what my stores right now would stretch out to for a year with our family of 4 plus my parents and some for charity. We only have 6 chickens right now that average 4 eggs a day. I need to store way more wheat and rice to stretch what I have for larger servings. I know if tshtf My wife and kids will need more calories than me. Boys are both mid teens now and need as much as they can get. Oldest son 16 is hitting the weights like crazy for football. He's gonna be a monster this year. Love seeing him bench over his weight in reps of 10! He weighs 205 and is 5'9" not fat at all either. youngest son is growing like a weed at 13 and needs tons of calories and he is a skinny guy. Wife is 5'2" and 105. My lil bitty wifey will need lots of calories for the change in how chores are done with limited power. 
It's definitely been a great thing for me to do to realise where I am falling short in planning. I will have a little bit of time this weekend and my plan is to take a little hike in the timber around me and scout for food of all kinds. If I see a rabbit, squirrel, or possum I will pull out a little meat from the freezer to
add to my diet to simulate the harvest of that animal. If I find a nut or fruit tree I will eat a apple or grapes out of the fridge to simulate the harvested fruit. Really want to finish the month out to see where I end up. 

Dont worry the wifey is a first responder in our town. Basically a volunteer EMT. she is keeping an eye on my well being and likes me to be a big guy. She would stop me if I lost too much weight. Does feel really good to see the skin tightening up on me

Brokeneck


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Get a small spiral notebook and write down everything you eat and drink for the day, date it. It will help you later. I did this for years and years when I competed, and as a Trainer I was able to help others with their intake of Carbs,Calories,Fat, Amenios(protien). Take note of how you feel after eating, and make the nessassary changes. Be Safe.


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## Whydah (Jun 27, 2011)

Your experiment should provide a lot of good information... and warning... to all who read your post.

If you loss more than two pounds per week, you are losing lean muscle mass. Lean muscle weighs more than fat, and is harder to replace, especially as we age. Something to think about.

At 900 calories a day you are on a slow starvation diet. Your body recognizes it is being starved and as a protection has slowed its metabolism. Thats why you are experiencing a lack of energy and malaise. In a SHTF situation where you will have an abundance of both physical and mental stressors, your daily calorie intake should probably be over 3000. Thats the reason MREs have so many calories packed into each meal. You need animal fat, my friend. Its not good for us in our mostly modern sedentary lifestyles over the long-term, but its is absolutely necessary in a survival situation that will last for weeks, months, years. Venison doesn't supply much fat.

Thanks for you report. Its very informative and I wish you well. Just don't overdo it.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

mnn2501 said:


> I seriously would want to be carrying some extra weight if TSHTF.


I guess I could count my gut as an extra prep item  What I've seen with sick people is fatty people seem to be able to bounce back after a major health issue faster than skinny people. While I think being a huge fat load isn't a good thing an extra 20 pounds probably won't hurt much.

Brokeneck, it's an interesting and informative experiment. I went on a 10 dollar for the month challenge and I didn't even loose 20 pounds for the month. But then I did the bare minimum possible. I didn't even work at the time. Glad to hear that you've added more food to your diet. It's good to find these things out now instead of later.


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

I have a large variety of foods stored, most of which can be made into soups and stews easily. I also have quite a bit of our favorite spices on hand, but know that I lack in oils and fats for long term. Thanks for posting this, it reinforces some of my choices.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Fat guys can TO run. The fastest sprint I ever saw an average person do was this guy I knew, who was plenty over weight. DD, 12 at the time and rated fastest runner in her class, took off down the street with a plate of cake. He caught up with her so fast, he was almost blurry as he ran by.

On a separate note, carrying a little extra weight (little) isn't a horrible idea, alas for me though, I eat probably 2500 calories a day and I couldn't gain weight if you paid me. 5'3", 115. 17 years ago, when I got my first legal ID, 5'4", 111.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

stanb999 said:


> What makes you think overweight people don't have endurance or speed?
> Of course it will. It will be your death nail as a thinnie. The overweight don't necessarily eat more than the fragile thinnie.
> 
> Maybe you want to run... I'll have work to do. I already do hard work everyday. A target of who? the bear after he ate all the thinnies. IF your saying as a 6' tall 165 lb (smack dab middle of the BMI) male with a pre teen boy like figure your going to kill off a 6' 230 pound male (obese on the BMI) your delusional.
> ...


Reality check...if you're 50, 60 or 70 lbs overweight...unless you're a professional strong man, you have a tremendous physical disadvantage. I'm not talking about a bodybuilder or powerlifter who has it in muscle...I'm talking about those who have a large body fat percentage ( over 24 or 25% ). Unless you're a freak of nature you do not have speed or endurance.

Yes, a thin guy will have a huge advantage over a fat one. I'm not talking about a sumo wrestling match or a pie eating contest. Out in the woods, in a kill or be killed scenario, you're too slow, you're not stealthy, you can't hide or run and you're hard to miss. When you go down, you get hurt because you're too heavy and you're slow to get up. Sorry bro, I hate to burst the illusion, but if your fat your weak.

The good news is you can do something about it before you become a rib roast on a thin guys table.:bash:


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> Fat guys can TO run. The fastest sprint I ever saw an average person do was this guy I knew, who was plenty over weight. DD, 12 at the time and rated fastest runner in her class, took off down the street with a plate of cake. He caught up with her so fast, he was almost blurry as he ran by.
> 
> On a separate note, carrying a little extra weight (little) isn't a horrible idea, alas for me though, I eat probably 2500 calories a day and I couldn't gain weight if you paid me. 5'3", 115. 17 years ago, when I got my first legal ID, 5'4", 111.


My DH can't gain weight either, his matab is so high. when I met him he was skin and bones, wasn't eating enough. DR told him with his matab and the heavy work he does he needed to be eatting 4000 cals a day. If he skips a meal you can see it!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

The finest combat soldiers and survivalists in the world are the Gurkhas. They average about 5'5" and 120 pounds. Not too long ago, one Gurkha soldier (retired) picked up his knife on a train and went after 40 or more armed bandits who were robbing the train and threatening to rape some of the young girls on board. After he'd killed the 11th one the rest dropped their loot and fled.










If you have extra weight, and you know if you do, then fix it. Fix it now. Otherwise it will kill you. It will either kill you in a SHTF situation when you can't run, can't hide, and can't endure any level of privation, or it will kill you slowly over the next 30 years in our opulent society.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

kirkmcquest said:


> Reality check...if you're 50, 60 or 70 lbs overweight...unless you're a professional strong man, you have a tremendous physical disadvantage. I'm not talking about a bodybuilder or powerlifter who has it in muscle...I'm talking about those who have a large body fat percentage ( over 24 or 25% ). Unless you're a freak of nature you do not have speed or endurance.
> 
> Yes, a thin guy will have a huge advantage over a fat one. I'm not talking about a sumo wrestling match or a pie eating contest. Out in the woods, in a kill or be killed scenario, you're too slow, you're not stealthy, you can't hide or run and you're hard to miss. When you go down, you get hurt because you're too heavy and you're slow to get up. Sorry bro, I hate to burst the illusion, but if your fat your weak.
> 
> The good news is you can do something about it before you become a rib roast on a thin guys table.:bash:


Did you ever watch boxing? How about the MMA? You really never watched sports? Weight is a benefit till your literally huge.

Fact is belly fat on a man was and is helpful for the hunt. You see if you went off into the forest away from family you wouldn't eat well till after the kill and your return. IF it took a week.. you didn't eat well for that time and needed the extra energy. 
A woman has "hips" for the strain of child birth and breast feeding. Even if nutrition is scarce.

The "thin" child like frame ideal today is a recent invention. Plump was a sign you would be a good mate. For a man it meant you hunted well enough to eat well. For a woman it meant you wouldn't be hard to feed. You see food was scarce for all. 

When scarcity returns so will values that aren't obvious today.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

you people are funny at times.....fat people arent stealthy...pfffttt..i am very stealthy....so much so i am like moss in the woods...roflmao....i guess the next thing yall will say is only skinny women are pretty.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Ernie said:


> It will either kill you in a SHTF situation when you can't run, can't hide, and can't endure any level of privation, or it will kill you slowly over the next 30 years in our opulent society.


Thinness in a middle aged adult of both sexs is generally a sign of disease. A huge fat guy that has a heart attack is 200% more likely to survive it as a thin person; he is 25% more likely to have one. A mildly obese fat guy is 300% more likely to survive any trauma, from surgery to disease. A 10 year study that was done in the mid 80's showed that after 10 years the thin were 25% more likely to be dead after the study even after eliminating those deaths that happen in the first two years. 

Remember fat isn't just energy, it's also water.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

heres some stealth...kill a turkey without a blind or tree stand with an arrow.how many people you personally know done that?and just for proof a picture......and for those non-hunters..trukeys have way better eyesight than humans


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

There is big ... and then there is fat. You know the difference ... stop pretending you don't.

Fat will kill you. Period. Big can be either a hindrance or a boon, but fat will ALWAYS kill you.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

stanb999 said:


> Thinness in a middle aged adult of both sexs is generally a sign of disease. A huge fat guy that has a heart attack is 200% more likely to survive it as a thin person; he is 25% more likely to have one. A mildly obese fat guy is 300% more likely to survive any trauma, from surgery to disease. A 10 year study that was done in the mid 80's showed that after 10 years the thin were 25% more likely to be dead after the study even after eliminating those deaths that happen in the first two years.
> 
> Remember fat isn't just energy, it's also water.


stan theres a lady on utube fighting cancer and she is recovering faster because she had extra weight on.the treatments havent drug here body down as fast as if she was super thin.she has done videos about it.i will look and see if i can find it.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Ernie said:


> There is big ... and then there is fat. You know the difference ... stop pretending you don't.
> 
> Fat will kill you. Period. Big can be either a hindrance or a boon, but fat will ALWAYS kill you.


ernie...if i told you the number my weight is it would shock you.the scale is not a measurement of health for everyone....i am the largest person on this forum.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I see a future where the roadside is littered with bleached bones that lie in a pile, half-covered by the tattered remains of XXL shirts and size 42 pants.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

elkhound said:


> ernie...if i told you the number my weight is it would shock you.the scale is not a measurement of health for everyone....i am the largest person on this forum.


I know a farmer down the road from me who is 5'4" and probably 350 pounds. He looks like a walking beer barrel.

He can outwork, outfight, and outlast just about everyone I know. One gets the impression that if you were to dare to poke him, it would be like poking an old oak tree.

But then there are others about that weight that I see from time to time when I'm out in the world. They jiggle when they walk. They get out of breath opening a pack of Twinkies. It takes them 5 minutes to get out of their cars and waddle inside for a Slurpee.

If the reader is in the first category, then fine. They have a leg up. If the reader is in the second category, then it's probably time to do something about it.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Ernie said:


> I see a future where the roadside is littered with bleached bones that lie in a pile, half-covered by the tattered remains of XXL shirts and size 42 pants.


roflmao....42 i would be skinny at that.....ernie..i spent 10 hours plus a day walking in USFS in the pacific north west and alaska......i weighed 280# to 300#and wore a size 38 to 42 pants size.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Ernie said:


> I know a farmer down the road from me who is 5'4" and probably 350 pounds. He looks like a walking beer barrel.
> 
> He can outwork, outfight, and outlast just about everyone I know. One gets the impression that if you were to dare to poke him, it would be like poking an old oak tree.
> 
> ...


 yep thats waht i am talking about...theres soem corn fed country folks around that are capable.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Ernie said:


> I see a future where the roadside is littered with bleached bones that lie in a pile, half-covered by the tattered remains of XXL shirts and size 42 pants.


Ask yourself this...

If you got a "flu" and couldn't hold water or food in. You got it eating a little bad food. Because you had bugged out and as things happen you couldn't cook like you would like. You had already lost 20 lbs due to the poor diet... Your dead!

A fat guy, loses 20 lbs and he still has 20 more to go till he's in the same shape as you started. He gets the same "flu" with you. He takes the loss of 20 pounds. Now the work is cut out for him... He has to dig a hole for you!


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

stanb999 said:


> It's been proven.. Fat guys live longer than the thinnies. Our "less efficient" metabolisms go farther on less fuel that's why we are fat eating the same calories.
> 
> The health craze of today is total hyperbole. In lean times the lean will die in 3-4 weeks. We fatties will be how you are now in the same time.


Ive heard slightly UNDERWEIGHT men live longer than the rest.Mebbe not in SHTF,but in our current world I believe thats what it is.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

mightybooboo said:


> Ive heard slightly UNDERWEIGHT men live longer than the rest.Mebbe not in SHTF,but in our current world I believe thats what it is.


Not true. Longer life is different, The thinner may be more "healthy" but if they get something they die!

Maybe what you heard was the rat study. Basically they fed the rats half the calories they would need for a bit then back up to "regular". They lived like twice as long.

It's thought that this diet would be more "natural". With periods of plenty and periods of scarcity.


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## gideonprime (Oct 17, 2007)

kirkmcquest said:


> You'll never survive the initial phase, you need endurance and speed. Going without alot of food will be a shock to your system.
> 
> No, you want to be able to hit the ground running. You want to be ready to work hard physically on less food from the opening bell. Plus, carrying around all those calories..you'll be a target.


Who says you need speed? 

You'll never outrun a bullet or car.

Or are you expecting a speedy zombie horde to charge you?


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

There's another angle to this that I would like to address, even though it may be opening up a can of worms. I realize that there are plenty of single preppers (I'm one) who don't have a partner to help with the work. But the OP has a wife. If they worked as partners, she would be doing the cooking and feeding him so that he could get the 'man work' outside done. Not that they wouldn't help one another as necessary, but there is a reason that the traditional norm is for the women to do the cooking and housework, while the men do the heavy outside work. 

It does sound like he needs to increase his stores across the board, especially in protein and vegetables, but he was also talking about the amount of time it took to prepare meals -- if the other partner, his wife, was to take over the meal preparation, it would help a lot.

Kathleen


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

I just skimmed the thread and skipped a bunch of posts due to the drift into fatties vs. thinnies. But I have a question for the OP -- why are you eating grains and no legumes? Grains are very deficient in protein and need to be combined with legumes to make a complete protein. I know you are trying to avoid much cooking, but you can cook a mess of lentils in 15-20 minutes if you soak them first. 1 cup of cooked lentils and 2 cups of cooked grains (wheat/corn mix) provides 500+ calories and 30 grams of complete protein. Add that to your current daily allotment, and it will go a long way to giving you the nutrients and calories you need.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

What you're eating is not a survival diet. It's a starvation diet, and is putting a LOT of stress on your body. If you don't mind doing a stress test on your body, you're doing the right thing, but don't be too surprised if you find that part of your body fails the test. Of course, with a test like that, the cost of failing the test could be death.:stars:


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

elkhound said:


> heres some stealth...kill a turkey without a blind or tree stand with an arrow.how many people you personally know done that?and just for proof a picture......and for those non-hunters..trukeys have way better eyesight than humans


I had a hunting "expert" tell me once that wild turkeys were easy to hunt since they couldn't fly.:umno:


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

stanb999 said:


> Not true. Longer life is different, The thinner may be more "healthy" but if they get something they die!
> 
> Maybe what you heard was the rat study. Basically they fed the rats half the calories they would need for a bit then back up to "regular". They lived like twice as long.
> 
> It's thought that this diet would be more "natural". With periods of plenty and periods of scarcity.


Rats and people,2 different things.The OLD men I see in hospital,thin live longer than obese (thats PROVEN fact),and also have better survival rates from catastrophic illness has been my LIFE experience from 35 plus years of caring for them.

But I will give you SHTF having some extra calories packed away vrs being skinny going in,common sense would support that being true,not OBESE though,thats another issue entirely.You can be fat and HORRIBLY malnourished.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

stanb999 said:


> Did you ever watch boxing? How about the MMA? You really never watched sports? Weight is a benefit till your literally huge.
> 
> Fact is belly fat on a man was and is helpful for the hunt. You see if you went off into the forest away from family you wouldn't eat well till after the kill and your return. IF it took a week.. you didn't eat well for that time and needed the extra energy.
> A woman has "hips" for the strain of child birth and breast feeding. Even if nutrition is scarce.
> ...


How many boxer's and MMA fighters are obese? One or two in the entire world...those are the exceptions. Athletes are overwhelmingly lean and fit. 

Really there is no argument here, it is ridiculous for you to argue that being fat gives you an athletic advantage...and to imply that it gives you a health advantage is downright laughable. You're lying to yourself.

If you go off into the woods to hunt, how far do you think you are going to get with 70lbs of useless blubber strapped to your gut? Fat does not move or function...it requires your heart, muscles and lungs to work harder to carry it around. Being fat is totally different than having functional size. It's a burden, its a disadvantage.

You are also confusing a healthy body fat percentage with obesity. A guy with a few extra pounds ( I mean a few, not 50 ), who is otherwise in good shape is in a good position to survive. The only time an obese person would have an advantage would be if both people are tied up in a room and left to starve....then the fit guy would likely starve first. In almost every other scenario, the fatties are disadvantaged.


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## Brokeneck (Mar 1, 2011)

Just stopped in to see if there were any good ideas or coments, WHOA, I'm a little put off by some of the comments, I appreciate the people worried about the diet, and I appreciate the concern for my health but lets get off our high horses about how physically fit we all are, I agree that morbidly obese is not to be tollerated, you have to get off your ----- and do something about it! But I know alot of thin people that are in way worse shape than a heavy person. I cant catch a olympic sprinter, and I cant fight a MMA fighter, But I know ---- well I can out fish, hunt, garden, tend my flock and raise my kids better than 90% of the sheeple out there. I'm a survivor and so are my family. If that skinny sprinter wants to steal my eggs, he cant out run a .308 and the MMA fighter cant punch his way past my 45. Be real people and keep the comments relevant to the diet i'm taking. It's for informational purposes only and is done to not only help myself but you also.

As to the comment about legumes, I hate to admit it but I even make my chili without beans. Too much of the gas! I love my ham and bean soup but the wife and kids make me sit in the garage for a day or two! I will add a few navy beans and barley to the stew tonight. sunday I will have oatmeal and fresh berries for breakfast. I need to cut and split those trees I dropped and know I will need the extra calories. I'm feeling much better today I think I was getting a little dehydrated and increased my water intake.
Brokeneck


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## Brokeneck (Mar 1, 2011)

Oh forgot to tell ya the scale said 225 this morning, 30 pounds in just under 2 weeks.
Brokeneck


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Keep up the good work, Brokeneck.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Brokeneck said:


> Just stopped in to see if there were any good ideas or coments, WHOA, I'm a little put off by some of the comments, I appreciate the people worried about the diet, and I appreciate the concern for my health but lets get off our high horses about how physically fit we all are,


HIGH HORSE? Heck,I could EASILY lose 50 lbs and yes,I WOULD be healthier. Sheesh,I dont care if you weigh 500 lbs,your life.

But to say being overweight to obesity is healthy,get real. Get past ideology,Ive seen it and lived it and DONE it for a living,fat is NOT going to prolong your life in this world,here and now,as we stand currently.

Thats really not debatable, its got too much FACT to back up obesity is killer,and slim men LIVE longer,they just do.

Want another? Slightly UNDER-ACTIVE thyroid also will increase life span in men,go figure.

Well done on the weight loss BTW.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Agreed. I'm carrying about 15 pounds of Extra Ernie right now that I ought not be. (Too many waffles, I suppose.) However I'm not kidding myself that it's a survival benefit to me and I dang sure ain't trying to convince others of that.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

So is it death for us thinnies? Those of us that work our holy bejeebers into the dirt everyday packing away more calories than a starving ethiopian kid sees in a year and can't gain an extra pound if ya paid me? Are we dead at the end of starvation week #1?


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## NewGround (Dec 19, 2010)

FourDeuce said:


> I had a hunting "expert" tell me once that wild turkeys were easy to hunt since they couldn't fly.:umno:


Great job Elkhound. One of my goals is to bag me a wild turkey, and I don't mean from down at the ABC (liquor) store, LOL

A good friend, now passed told me his funny turkey story. Was out scouting the woods one day and as he walked into the center of good sized clearing his "spidey" senses started going off so he crouched down low to blend in and held himself perfectly still scanning the area to see what set his senses off. After about 45 minutes of no movement he finally figured it must have been nothing so he hopped up to stretch out his legs...

With that sudden movement a whole mess of wild turkey's all around him scattered in every direction... When he showed up they had all laid low to wait him out... Great guy and always a lot of fun... A couple of months back I watched eight or ten turkeys every evening on my way home from work. Someone else's land and in city limits so no hunting but the watching is free...


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I have dumb wild turkeys in my neighborhood. They haven't been hunted and people feed them off their porches, so they have lost all fear of man.

The day I decide to bag one I can just about hit it with a rock.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

Well, most animals I'm familuar with fatten up during easy times to survive the hard times. You know, the whole summer-winter thing. I wonder what thats all about.:hysterical:

Anyway, back to the OP.

I'm wondering just how much work your doing?

Just off the top of my head, I would assume the majority of work in a survival situation would be for water/food. A portion of work would go to providing minimal shelter. Only after securing plenty of food recourses would it be wise to work harder for other necissities such as improved shelter and storing excess supplies.

In other words, you may simply be doing more daily chores than you would be in a short food survival situation. If my food was rationed that much, the majority of my time would be finding more food and eating it. Not cutting wood.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Brokeneck said:


> Just stopped in to see if there were any good ideas or coments, WHOA, I'm a little put off by some of the comments, I appreciate the people worried about the diet, and I appreciate the concern for my health but lets get off our high horses about how physically fit we all are, I agree that morbidly obese is not to be tollerated, you have to get off your ----- and do something about it! But I know alot of thin people that are in way worse shape than a heavy person. I cant catch a olympic sprinter, and I cant fight a MMA fighter, But I know ---- well I can out fish, hunt, garden, tend my flock and raise my kids better than 90% of the sheeple out there. I'm a survivor and so are my family. If that skinny sprinter wants to steal my eggs, he cant out run a .308 and the MMA fighter cant punch his way past my 45. Be real people and keep the comments relevant to the diet i'm taking. It's for informational purposes only and is done to not only help myself but you also.
> 
> As to the comment about legumes, I hate to admit it but I even make my chili without beans. Too much of the gas! I love my ham and bean soup but the wife and kids make me sit in the garage for a day or two! I will add a few navy beans and barley to the stew tonight. sunday I will have oatmeal and fresh berries for breakfast. I need to cut and split those trees I dropped and know I will need the extra calories. I'm feeling much better today I think I was getting a little dehydrated and increased my water intake.
> Brokeneck


You're right brokeneck. Sometimes these threads can go off in crazy directions. I'm not claiming to be fit, I just hold the opinion that being fit is preferable.

I do think that your calorie restriction seems a little extreme, I would bump it up to 3000 and gradually reduce it. I think a healthy prep goal should be 2000 or so.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

brokeneck with the beans you can give them an extra rinse to help prevent the gas I think and also soaking longer...I can't remember where in the process you do it.. Some people also add apple cider vinigar to kill the gas too I think.

Great job getting the turkey Elkhound :thumb:


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Kudos to Brokeneck for his fearless venture.

There's not a member on this forum that won't be shaken to their core about two weeks into the meltdown. Hooray for a man who will subject himself to extremes while he has some semblance of control. 

As for the weight/energy issue...... I'm gunna say it.
I'm 5'8" and 140#.....44 years old.
I wish some of us lived closer, cuz I'll go toe-to-toe with any man as to a day's work contest or a year in the woods with a knife...... living on weeds and wits.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

I would suggest you need to reevalute your garden plan, if you have little available at this time of year. You could easily have kohlrabi, various greens even if turning a little bitter with the heat, radishes, baby carrots, small potatoes, onions, garlic, peas probably done ect ect.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Forerunner said:


> Kudos to Brokeneck for his fearless venture.
> 
> There's not a member on this forum that won't be shaken to their core about two weeks into the meltdown. Hooray for a man who will subject himself to extremes while he has some semblance of control.
> 
> ...


Not a chance, my brother, but I might tussle with you in a pie-eating contest.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

*glances down at that hard little hollow spot between his belt and sternum with a look of doubt and regret*

You win.

But if it's cherry or pecan, I'll try real hard.


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## HomeOnTheFarm (Mar 9, 2004)

Wow. Went from "input on a survival diet" to "civil war" there, didn't it?

I just wanted to second Kathleen's input about division of labor. 'course, I think it's great that all I have to do is cook for DH and do his laundry and all those outside chores get done and a house gets built without my having to do it directly. I'm lazy like that. 

If your wife can't cook for you, consider plugging in the crockpot (unless you are also shunning electricity? I was unclear on that).


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Forerunner said:


> I'm 5'8" and 140#.....44 years old.
> .


That's pretty lean, you could probably out-work most of us. I've been losing it slowly and steadily...another 20 and I'll be in fighting shape.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Just keep hoin' them taters.


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## Brokeneck (Mar 1, 2011)

Balanced out on the weight loss for the last 3 days, Total weight loss so far of 33 pounds. I modified diet a little bit and added a good serving of oatmeal and berries for breakfast every day and also added zucchini, peas, and new potatoes to my supper. I have to honestly say I havent felt better in a long time! Started on the first of july and here I am almost 3 weeks into it feeling like a new man! Still burning tons of callories but am now sleeping like a baby at night, gut is almost entirely gone, and have way more stamina than before. The heat around here has made everything harder but I'm getting through no problems so far. Since July 1st I have had 7 fireworks shows to shoot in addition to my full time job and all the chores. Defnitely glad I have taken this on and I have learned a ton of things that would have been devestating if learned during really hard times. #1 is there is not enough time in a day to do everything that needs to be done, #2 Starting a fire in fire pit when it's 101 degrees out to cook your supper REALLY sucks. #3 Garden is a higher priority to cutting wood. #4 you cant have enough water. and #5 I need way more food preps put away!
There are so many more to add to list but I gotta get back to work.
Brokeneck


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

keep up the good work brokeneck....and drink plenty as the heat is here for all of us for the rest of the week !!!!!


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Brokeneck, are you cooking all your food over an open fire? That would add some time to your daily chores, for sure. Do you have a solar cooker? You could put some things to cooking in the morning, and maybe just move the thing to follow the sun a few times during the day, and have dinner ready at night. Cook enough at one meal to have leftovers for the next meal -- if you are doing this totally without electricity, figure out some way to keep the leftovers cool until you are ready to eat them. 

As for beans, I have gas problems with those, too. Recently I learned a good way to cook them that almost eliminates the gas -- it's from the book The Resilient Gardener by Carol Deppe (I *highly* recommend this book, by the way). First, you should start by eating a SMALL amount of beans (toss a few into something else you are fixing, already cooked if the cooking time differs a lot) regularly. Then gradually increase the amount of beans you are eating. 

Rinse the beans or lentils or split peas (if store-bought, pick them over first -- I've found lumps of dry dirt and small stones in bags of store-bought legumes). Lentils, cowpeas, and peas can now just be cooked. For all other types of beans, fill the pot of beans with cold water and leave it at least half an hour. This helps hydrate the skins so they are less likely to split when the temperature is higher. After about half an hour, drain the water off, refill with cold water plus some boiling water to make the water in the pot lukewarm. The water should be in huge excess, at least a couple of gallons for about a quart or two of beans.

(She says,) The next issue is one of air. Basically, I'm just soaking the beans as if I were going to germinate them. To do that, I need to stir the beans. Otherwise, the awakening beans will use up the oxygen in the water and begin to suffocate and die, especially those at the bottom of the container. So I stir the beans once in a while. Every couple of hours, say, as I wander through the kitchen. Also, every four or five hours, on average, I drain the water and replace it with fresh. I usually time things so I can tend the beans for at least four or five hours before leaving them untended a while (such as overnight).

It takes most varieties of beans at least twelve hours to soak fully, that is, to imbibe as much water as they are capable of and become ready to germinate. It can take some garbanzo, runner beans, or fava varieties as much as thirty-six hours of soaking. When fully soaked and ready to cook the beans should all be fully plumped out. If the ones in the bottom of the pot are small and unplump, you didn't stir or change the water enough. Old or poorly grown beans may imbibe water irregularly, in which case it isn't possible to get an optimally cooked batch of beans from them.

When the beans are ready to cook, I pour off the water, rinse them in a change of water, and add water to at least a couple inches above the soaked beans. Then I add the tiniest pinch of salt (about 1/16 tsp. or less), the seasonings, and a teaspoon or two of vegetable oil. The oil is just to keep the beans from foaming and boiling over. I add more fat later on in my cooking. As seasonings, one of my favorite combinations for two quarts of dry pinto, black, or other dark, full-flavored beans is 1 Tbs. curry powder + 1 Tbs. ground cumin + 1 Tbs. chili powder + 1 Tbs. ground sage + 1/8 tsp. cinnamon. And often garlic or onions. After the beans have become soft, I add salt or tamari sauce to taste and fat of some sort. Meat drippings if I have them. About 1/4 pound of butter sometimes. Then the final trick is to add something a little acidic after taking the beans off the heat. A little lemon or lime juice in each bowl, for example. Or some vinegar in the pot. Tomato paste or ketchup also works well in many a pot of bean soup. Sometimes I thicken the bean broth by blending some of the beans with a hand blender right in the pot.

And there is much more -- do get ahold of a copy of the book if you possibly can! She talks about choosing store-bought beans for best quality, too (buy bulk bags meant for the Hispanic market!), and much more.

Kathleen


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

It is true, that most athletes are thin... but, from my exposure to some of the ultra marathon types, they may consume 4x what normal folks do... can you imagine eating 8K calories in a day? Well, they burn it all up. Stop stoking their mean little engines, and the engine stops. Cold. Once worked with a guy that'd regularly run 80 to a 100 miles, over mountains, no less. He carried a fanny pack with food, and food caches along the way. Without it, he'd'a not made it.

My mother was 40lbs overweight when she came down with leukemia and some other associated illnesses... she went thru chemo and all the other bs... she slowly withered away... only thing that kept her running, was her bodyfat. When it was gone, so was she.

If your lean and mean right now, I'd plan on having multiple food caches, that you can bet your life on... without it, you die a lot quicker, than a fella with a 25 lb cache of fat around the middle.

I'm talking about a working fella or gal with a 'cache'... not some office bound or welfare 'waddler'... waddlers won't make it long, I fear.

Put me and my supercharged friend, with zero body fat, but eats food like he was bingeing... on a mountaintop, and I daresay I'd last longer, as my 20lb cache will give me a few weeks of cushion... on day three my friend would be sagging. Of course, he could go Donner Party and it'd be me that sagged...


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

The mexican herb Epazote is supposed to counteract the bean gas problem.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

What gas problem? I eat beans all the time and I don't have a gas problem.

Sometimes other people near me have a gas problem though.


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## fetch33 (Jan 15, 2010)

A few years ago, I lost 50 lbs in 3 months on a 1000 cal/day diet. Course I am only 5 ' 2". I don't remember feeling bad at all. I wasn't doing hard physical labor, just my nursing job.
Does anyone remember the PBS special called Frontier House? One family on the show called in the doctor because the man lost so much weight and was ribby. The doctor assured him that there was nothing seriously wrong with him and that he was just in the kind of shape people of that era were.... SKINNY from hard physical labor.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

texican said:


> It is true, that most athletes are thin... but, from my exposure to some of the ultra marathon types, they may consume 4x what normal folks do... can you imagine eating 8K calories in a day? Well, they burn it all up. Stop stoking their mean little engines, and the engine stops. Cold. Once worked with a guy that'd regularly run 80 to a 100 miles, over mountains, no less. He carried a fanny pack with food, and food caches along the way. Without it, he'd'a not made it.
> 
> My mother was 40lbs overweight when she came down with leukemia and some other associated illnesses... she went thru chemo and all the other bs... she slowly withered away... only thing that kept her running, was her bodyfat. When it was gone, so was she.
> 
> ...


Hogwash. Your friends body is tuned to efficiently perform his tasks ( in his case running 100 miles )..he requires more food because he is actually burning it. Your body is efficiently tuned to perform your tasks, which is sitting on your butt and eating more than you burn.

If you were unable to obtain those calories, AND required to put out more work than you are even used to NOW...your body will experience shock. Your friend can eat less if he is burning less. Stop him from running and allow him to eat like he does and he will blow up like a balloon.

If you and your friend are on a mountain top, he will be able to climb down. You will exhaust yourself and your body will rebel at the loads you are placing it under. Plus the extra weight puts more stress on knees, backs, and etc...wearing it all down and making you much more injury prone. Stop kidding yourself...being overweight does not make you, *in any way*, superior to an athletic, fit person.


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## margoC (Jul 26, 2007)

I think it's great what your doing! You'll be way ahead of the game when/if it's time to do it for real. I think the fact you have exibited self control when you could have just eaten more will serve you well if you need to ration stuff in case of loss of job, inflation, whatever. 

I talk a good talk. I'm always saying I'm going to just eat my supplies for one month, but I never do.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Hey, Brokeneck ... how's it going with the diet?


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

DH burns over 4,000 cals a day...seriously, if he doesn't eat at least that a day he gets so sickly skinny so fast! Had a DR. tell him to eat 5,000 a day or he was gonna have health issues. He has a high matabolisem and the work he does is really labor intensive but boy oh boy you should see the muscles on those arms of his...who needs to lift weights? not my DH lol

So, I'm guessing you just need to find some way to sneak in more calories into your diet...add nuts and oils when you can.


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

Ernie said:


> I have dumb wild turkeys in my neighborhood. They haven't been hunted and people feed them off their porches, so they have lost all fear of man.
> 
> The day I decide to bag one I can just about hit it with a rock.


They are like that here too.
I was thinking more like, a pair of hedge trimmers.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Del Gue said:


> They are like that here too.
> I was thinking more like, a pair of hedge trimmers.


Just because that wild turkey is acting all tame and docile, don't think that it's going down easily. Turkeys put up a wild fight if you're trying to kill them. My FIL has the scars to prove it. He thought he'd shot his wild turkey dead. It was laying on the ground like it was dead so he walked up to it and was getting ready to string its feet to carry it to the truck. . . whoa, turkey flew up and quickly wrapped him in his own rope and then proceeded to claw and flog him to death. He couldn't get to his gun and wouldn't have been able to use it at close range anyways. He happened to remember he had his knife sheathed on his leg and after much effort got the knife, grabbed the turkey's neck and started sawing. . . yea, we his family often wish this had been a recorded video. :happy2:


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

NickieL said:


> DH burns over 4,000 cals a day...seriously, if he doesn't eat at least that a day he gets so sickly skinny so fast! Had a DR. tell him to eat 5,000 a day or he was gonna have health issues. He has a high matabolisem and the work he does is really labor intensive but boy oh boy you should see the muscles on those arms of his...who needs to lift weights? not my DH lol
> 
> So, I'm guessing you just need to find some way to sneak in more calories into your diet...add nuts and oils when you can.


My DH is the same way, he's about 5'11 and 145 lbs. He had gotten up to around 165 and then he got a stomach virus and lost it all again. The man has the most muscular back and arms I have ever seen though! He's wiry

DH swears by goat's milk to put on weight. When he drinks a couple glasses a day it really helps him gain. I'm guessing the Oreo's he has with it isn't hurting him either.

Brokeneck-keep up the good work and I'm really enjoying reading it!


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

dh is over here eatting a whole gallon of ice cream....by himself...in one sitting.....he does this often and doesn't gain an ounce........

makes me ill jut to see him do it LOL!

I should put him into food eatting contests for the prize money.


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## stormrider27 (May 31, 2011)

What is the latest on the op? I need to do something like this to evaluate my storage. Thanks for the inspiration.

Storm


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## Brokeneck (Mar 1, 2011)

Doing great this morning, stepped on the scale when I came in from chores. Broke the 220 barrier! 219, havent seen that since before oldest son was born! Feeling really healthy! Got a big day ahead of me, Gotta go clean up after the biggest fireworks show of the season. Its a pyromusical that takes 2 days of setup and a full day of tear down. Glad that one is over for the year. Finding more holes in my preps, The only meat I have been eating is canned deer and a little chicken from the freezer. I dont remember if I told you but I'm only eating meat if i have the chance to easily take wild game. Not really hunting but if I know I could easily harvest the animal I sub in a little chicken to simulate the hunt. I know this is probably cheating a little because I,m fairly sure I've eaten the same squirrel about 6 times! I am really craving beef! I watch the Cooking channel at night and it just about kills me to see a steak! Milk too! I definitely am going to be getting a few milk goats when i get the field done for our meat goats. Right now the meat goats are in a fairly small pen and dont feel right adding to the crowding by adding milkers to the heard until all the fence is done. I need to do a little research into if I can put both breeds together too
Someone asked if I am only cooking over fire. The answer is yes, I dont want to cheat myself on that. The wife and kids are eating what they normally would it is just me doing this. I'm kind of cheating anyway. I walk into an air conditioned house every night, flip on a light, turn on the nice warm shower, grab the remote and watch a little of the tube before bed. Dont want to imagine what it would be like around here without power for the kids. I'd be dealing with a lot of grumpy people with the heat we've been having. Anyway, things are going great other than craving beef and milk! I'll stop back by in a few days and give another update.

Brokeneck


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Broken, you deserve your own fan club.

Everyone on this forum owes it to themselves to follow your lead.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Definitely.

I just ate a breakfast of a bag of Cracker Jack washed down by a Java Monster.


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

You really need to start out slowly eating legumes for the protein. 

This is the way I cook them and they have WAY less gas.

Pick over beans then wash. Put tap water in pan to cover beans about two inches. Bring to a rolling boil and boil 15 minutes. Pour off water, rinse beans and then put in hot water along with what ever seasoning you like. Do not add salt until the beans are almost done. If you add salt they will not get soft.

I have cooked them with a little baking soda but I don't like to because they foam up so bad and make a mess.

Since you are not eating a lot of meat you really do need the legumes to go with the grains to make the complete protein. If you are loosing muscle, just remember your heart is also muscle.

I applaud you for this experiment.


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## okie-steading (Jul 19, 2007)

awesome job you are doing. one thing though, quit watching the cooking channel!! it will make you soo hungry. i love to watch it, but hate it too, because i get so ---- hungry and then i have to eat.


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## Brokeneck (Mar 1, 2011)

Down to 217 this morning, feeling awesome! that is a total weight loss of 38 pounds. Still craving beef like crazy. Already have plans for supper Sunday night. 8 oz. filet mignon, huge baked potato with real butter and sour cream, corn on the cob with more real butter, a huge glass of milk, and rhubarb custard pie for desert! I'll probably get sick that evening from the food shock.... the weekend cooled down just a touch and made the work alot more bearable. Last night I didnt feel like starting a fire for supper so I just walked through garden and ate raw veggies. It was actually pretty refreshing and a big pick me up. Sugar snap peas are just awesome! The craving of the beef is probably the hardest thing, I think it might be almost primal in me to need the red meat. It just doesnt feel right without it every so often. I am going to continue to keep my diet strong on the side of grains and fresh veggies. I havent felt this good in years and I know it has to be from not eating anything processed. This month is about to end and I am so happy that I did this experiment to see how my family would fare on a survival diet. I found a bunch of holes in my planning that I will be working on in the coming months. We also just had our well pump crap out on us so I will be pulling the motor and pump this weekend. While I'm in there I plan on getting it set up so it is an easy switch over to manual pump. Our well is shallow at 48 feet so it should be fairly easy to pull. I have a good neighbor who has done it before on his own well and said he would help me get it done. I lucked out there! Anyway I will post all the finals of my month long experiment on Monday if I get to the puter. Thanks for all the advice and encouragement!

Brokeneck


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

I feel so proud of you and impressed with what you've found out!

It's not real good of me to ask, cause I'm one that's sorta skeered of putting pictures on the web, but I'm hoping you might post some later. :gaptooth:


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## chickenman (May 13, 2002)

Nice work, Brokeneck!

I did something similar to what you're doing last summer. From April until September I ate mostly out of my garden and freezer. I ate a lot of fish, chicken, and venison. I have to tell ya, missing beef was the biggest problem I had too. Man did I crave hamburgers! Venison was an acceptable substitute, but I had eaten all of it pretty early in the summer. I love fish and chicken, but it's just not the same.


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## AmberLBowers (Nov 28, 2008)

Since you have meat goats, wouldn't you be eating them in a survival situation? I think you may be shorting yourself. I really admire what you are doing. Our problem would be dairy products. I have experience in cheese and yogurt making, just no dairy animals right now.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Good job Brokeneck. One warning for you, be prepaired for the huge ammount of "weight"(water) you will gain after your big meal Sunday night. I once gained 17 lbs. after a contest, when I went out to eat after the finals. That kind of thing does matter when you are 1000 miles from your Closet where you have 10 diffrent sizes of cloths.


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## campfiregirl (Mar 1, 2011)

Brokeneck said:


> I havent felt this good in years and I know it has to be from not eating anything processed.


My DH and I have changed our regular diet for good; avoiding processed foods all the time. Lean meats, lots of veggies, and fruit. We are both pre-diabetic and need to stay away from processed carbs and grains. We are not counting calories or fats; just staying away from processed anything and sugar. We aim for none, so that when we have a bit now and then it isn't a big deal. We've lost 80 lbs collectively since March 15th! We feel so good. It has changed my prepping and made it more expensive because if we depend on much beans and rice, we'd have major health problems. We're really working on that garden now!


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Brokeneck..you puttina a mereinge on that rhubarb custard pie?

Read thru this thread a couple of times...awsome feat we all may be facing in the future. bee


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

So in summary what do you think went well and what could have been improved if you did it again?


Are you going to try it again with tweaks?


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## machinist (Aug 3, 2010)

Our diet wouldn't change significantly. We make every effort to live on what we produce and could trade for, if store purchase was not an option. We buy local wheat, raise corn for meal and grind both ourselves for our baking needs. Done that for 35 years. Meat and dairy we would have to buy or trade for from our neighbor farmers. 

Cooking we can do with LP for several years, and with a wood stove, pretty well forever. I'd have to make do with the popcorn we grow instead of other salty snacks I buy to keep my blood pressure from bottoming out. I would have to start doing our own butchering again, but the curing and canning wouldn't change.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

If you eat more meat and natural fats (we do fresh lard here), and eliminate those carbs, you'll lose even more! That "tater" is worse for you (if your trying to lose weight) than the steak. Do away with all of the 'processed' oils and go with the natural ones, and you'll find a huge difference.

What was originally the only game in town, animal fats, went out of vogue (unhealthy supposedly)... I'm thinking that maybe the unnatural fat manufacturers had a 'hand' in this???... now Lard and Butter are back on the front burner.

But, if its workin for ya!, why stop?


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## Brokeneck (Mar 1, 2011)

Hey all, Kinda under the weather today so not gonna post much. Just wanted to share a video of the big show I talked about. The pyromusical was dedicated to all military and their families and the finalle is in honor of a local man killed in Afghanistan. Let me know what you think, This clip is last 5:45 of the show. It was shot in kinda a bad spot with the smoke obscuring some of the show. Sure wish I could get a good video of the whole show to watch. Kinda sucks when you can only see the show in your head when your shooting it! [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp8eDOU8Yvo&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp8eDOU8Yvo&feature=related[/ame]

Brokeneck


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> If you eat more meat and natural fats (we do fresh lard here), and eliminate those carbs, you'll lose even more! That "tater" is worse for you (if your trying to lose weight) than the steak. Do away with all of the 'processed' oils and go with the natural ones, and you'll find a huge difference.


And butter! Mmmmm... Everything is better with butter. And it's super-easy to make. Shake some cream up (FIL used to head out with a mason jar of cream in his saddle bag, do his morning loop, and came back at noon with butter), salt it and there you go. 



> As to the comment about legumes, I hate to admit it but I even make my chili without beans. Too much of the gas! I love my ham and bean soup but the wife and kids make me sit in the garage for a day or two! I will add a few navy beans and barley to the stew tonight. sunday I will have oatmeal and fresh berries for breakfast.


In that case, you are WAY deficient in protein. If not meat, you need to be eating a whole pile of eggs a day. 



> Does anyone remember the PBS special called Frontier House? One family on the show called in the doctor because the man lost so much weight and was ribby. The doctor assured him that there was nothing seriously wrong with him and that he was just in the kind of shape people of that era were.... SKINNY from hard physical labor.


I remember it vividly. It was a Navy doc... 
There was a video-diary entry where the guy had his shirt off to show how badly he was "starving." 
My DH (6'2", 165#) looked down at his own chest and said, "He looks just like me!!" :shocked:


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Ooh remember how the guy and his wife on Frontier House still didnt believe the doctor that said he was fine? LOL


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## Brokeneck (Mar 1, 2011)

Last post on the survival diet. I ended up at 214 this morning as I have been out working in the heat every spare minute that I have had. That is a total of 41 pounds lost in a month and a couple days. I feel amazing and I know it is from eating unrefined sugars and fresh produce along with very little meat. On sunday I had my beef finally! I had a beef filet that I hand cut from a loin roast. Mine I would guess was close to 12 ounces. I thought I was going to die after that. I skipped the potato and pie! I had asparagus with real butter and the filet only. I believe my stomache has shrunk quite a bit as I could hardly finish the steak. Anyway, the list of additional preps has grown tremendously. I am going to tripple my grain storage, double my bean storage, and will can at least another 100 quart jars of chicken and beef. The withdrawl from a diet used to meats was horrible. I ate a little meat the whole month but really rationed it down alot. After the well pump died on me I decided to add six water storage barrels to my preps. Plan was to fix well pump this last weekend but I have almost completed fencing in 2 acres for the goats. I am puttimg in 6 inch round posts by hand every 8 feet. It has a bottom rail of 16 foot long 2 X 6 a mid rail of 16 foot long 2 X 4 a top rail of 16 feet long 2 X 4 and 2 X 6 cap. It is finished like this on three sides with the back side being just metal posts. The whole thing has woven wire 4 foot tall around entire perimiter. This project has consumed me and should be complete this upcoming weekend then I can move on to the well pump after that. When we purchased the property the previous owners had rural water dug in to the property line but never hooked up. I went ahead and trenched to the house and put in all the proper valves to be able to switch over to rural water if needed. Sure am glad I did that now! would have been in serious trouble if we were without water. Back to preps, sorry sometimes I wander. I have fired up the dehydrator again and have a full load of peppers in right now. Peas and beans are next. I have a excalliber 9 tray and absolutely love it. I am going to try and dry at least a full year supply of veggies for the family and parents and put them mixed in 5 gallon buckets with mylar and O2 absorbers. I have always just done mixed veggies into glass canning jars but judging by my veggie consumption when produce was available from garden I will be useing alot in full meals for whole family and 5 gallon buckets should be much more economical. I have topped off my 500 gallon propane tank and added 3 - 100 pound cylinders, 8 - 20 pound cylinders and 10 flats of the small tanks for camping. 
Making a fire in the middle of summer really sucked and it went through a pretty good sized pile of split wood that spent alot of calories splitting for burning in the winter for heat. I think this may be one of the more commonly forgotten preps! I really didnt eat a lunch over the past month and tried not to start a fire for breakfast verry often. Most suppers were cooked on grate over fire in cast iron. I would guess I used close to 3/4 of a cord in this last month. That would probably at least double if I was cooking for everyone 2 meals a day for a month! That is way too much work to put away wood for summer use and I think just storing propane is alot better deal for cooking with. I strongly suggest everyone invest in a couple different cooking appliances that can use propane outside. I personally bought a turkey fryer, 2 small portable grills, and a propane crock pot that uses the small bottles. I didnt use any of it while on my diet as I was trying for a close to worst case scenario. I am finding many tools that I will need to invest in to make chores and projects much easier. The fence railings I am putting in I am just useing my cordless screw guns and cordless saw. once I thought about it I dont even have a decent hand saw and verry few nails. I would look pretty pitiful trying to repair a fence with a hand held screwdriver! I will be picking up 25 pound cases of every common nail I could ever use when money is better. There are just too many things to list in a quick update! I would suggest everyone try this for a couple weeks to find where your shortcomings are! I am so happy I did this while life was normal. I know now that for being a prepper I was just as vulnerable as the next guy when it comes to being truly prepared! For now i will be taking the same path as Ernie and tending to my projects at work and home. I need to get alot done and now more than ever I feel time is slipping by! Good luck to all of you and God bless us all!
Brokeneck


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Wooooooooowwwwwww.

I don't know if people realize the value of what you've done. Glad you feel good, and glad you've done more than most by just sticking with it. I'm sure you were a sensible intelligent person before doing this, but you have clearly learned things you would not have because you put your feet in for REAL. :clap:

How ironic is it that you started this experiment and it comes to sort of a close right here this week as we have all pretty much seen full signs from TPTB that we're screwed?!? Yes, I know.. we were screwed before this, but you know what I mean. 

I feel like maybe some Divine inspiration was going on special just for you and your family. It's also likely that His gift to us out here is your posting about it so we are accountable for taking that information and DOING something with it! :ashamed: 

I know I should have done more for myself in preparation for these times. I have not made the time to teach my son all I should, enabling him to be partially handicapped by the technology world.

Alright, off my box now.. sorry.

I am extremely impressed with what you did, and thanks for posting all the learning.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

Thank you Brokeneck this is great to know. Good work!


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## gimpyrancher (Jun 6, 2010)

kirkmcquest said:


> How many boxer's and MMA fighters are obese? One or two in the entire world...those are the exceptions. Athletes are overwhelmingly lean and fit.


But you make no mention of the quality of their food intake. I was born in the early 50's. If we ate the same quantity of food now we ate when I was growing up we'd be extremely unhealthy. But that is because of the poor quality of food we now consume compared to before.

Above doesn't explain NFL football linemen, Sumo wrestlers, shot putters, etc. How many of those MMA fighters could make it in professional football?

There is a huge difference between quantity and quality. In this case, I'm assuming high quality of what he's eating. Just not enough and the proper proportions of different types with enough protein and calories. His body is in crisis. But we boys have to test ourselves even when it's not done safely.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

FYI -- its a 2 year old thread


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

mnn2501 said:


> FYI -- its a 2 year old thread


Whatever happened to that fellow? Hope he didn't starve to death!

I'm on about week 3 or 4 now of my no-sugar kick. I'm feeling great. Losing a little of the Superfluous Ernie around the middle too.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

The Superfluous Ernie.








:indif:































:run:


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

I am rereading this thread and quite amazed I had no idea Natureslover was banned? 
when did that happen? there are alot of old threads popping up- very informative ones- but to see the ones with member names I totally recognize that say 'banned' amazes me!


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## GarlicGirl (Mar 12, 2010)

I agree with above poster. NatureLover was one of my favorite posters. What happened?


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Remember, there is Nature Lover, who still posts regularly, and NatureLover, who was banned. IIRC, the NatureLover that was banned tended to be a bit, um, contentious?


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

manygoatsnmore said:


> Remember, there is Nature Lover, who still posts regularly, and NatureLover, who was banned. IIRC, the NatureLover that was banned tended to be a bit, um, contentious?


ahhhh there were 2? mmmmm I forgot that
I guess since I was kinda new then I didn't catch on


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Darntootin said:


> deleted this insulting quote.


*ahem* Chuck was the one who owned the board and paid actual $$ to keep it running and the upkeep......
if someone was acting in an inappropriate manner then yeah- I would think he had the choice to ban them


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Personally, I think Chuck displayed remarkable reserve and patience with some of those who
"argued with his friends".


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## backwoods (Sep 12, 2004)

I was thinking the same thing. Also, why is the diet SO limited, and why not grind grain, make bread for several days at one time, and the same for beans?. I do that now. You don't have to have refrigeration, you could also keep beans hot enough to stop bacterial growth. It seems unrealistic for him to try this all on his own. He needs his "helpmeet."


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Insulting members is not allowed. Chuck is still a member and Admin here.
And making assumptions about how the forum has been run without real information is not very good either.

By the way - Chuck is MY friend.


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