# I have not been able to stop shaking...



## motdaugrnds

Both my dogs were barking a lot; and when I went out to check I saw what looked like a grown copperhead curled up in my front yard just in front of my van. I ran back inside and got my 12 gauge and couldn't remember how to load it. Finally got it loaded and it would not fire. Finally took it off safety and shot at the snake. It jerked as though I had hit it; but then it started coming toward me. I could not get my gun loaded again; so ran inside and got my 37 Glock. I shot at that snake but apparently missed it and that was my last bullet in the gun. Ran back inside to get more shotgun shells (#6) and get my headlight. (It was around 10pm so was dark except where my night light was shining.) When I got back outside the snake was under my van up against the left wheel. I managed to get inside the van and was trying to drive over the snake. I obviously didn't or I would have found a dead snake. It is now missing and I have no idea where it is. The last time I saw it move it was headed toward my trailer; and I know there are ways it can get under the trailer. Thus, now I cannot stop shaking....

What do I do now???? (I've re-loaded both the shotgun and the glock...)


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## Texaspredatorhu

Practice loading and reloading more often. Keep your pistol fully loaded....always.


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## oceantoad

I agree with the above, but remember that a hoe or shovel will also work. I have killed two rattlesnakes with my cane, but they took a lot of killing. Hopefully your dogs will alert you if the snake is around. Neighbor got a rattlesnake yesterday after the dog alerted on it. Smart dog it did not get bit. Sounds like you have two smart dogs since they did not get snake bit. Shotgun is great for snakes, please work with it. Calm down and watch where you step.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

for the snake , I think the best approach is to wait for light and perhaps recruit some help if possible.

for now calm down the best you can , the snake can stay outside and you can stay inside , it will be better dealt with in the morning , temps will likely be cooler and you will be better able to see.

for practice , I think your in need of more , practice loading , unloading , and reloading and practice shooting it is going to cost ammo but not that much shot shells plain old 7 1/2 or 8 target loads available for about 5 dollars a box will do for practice and snakes you may even want to try a light target load to reduce recoil , I recall recoil being a concern in a previous conversation about this with you.

for ammo carrying , they make a sleeve that goes on your stock that holds 5 rounds 5 maybe isn't enough they are not very expensive but any old oversize vest with large pockets to carry ammo that you can hang right next to your gun that keeps your reloads easily accessible think old jean jacket with sleeves cut off that has generous pockets or an old BDU shirt sans sleeves that has good size pockets at about your waist , or you could sew pockets on some other removing the sleeves lets you get it on fast.
or a shoulder bag that you can toss over cross body easily and quickly to carry your ammo just something that will hold your ammo on a convenient place and not spill it out but let you reach in and come out with a shell every time , spare flash light , possibly handgun.

a light on the gun might also be very helpful they don't have to cost a lot but quality durable lights do cost something


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## Oregon1986

That is very scary,hope you find it


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## alleyyooper

I rubber band a c cell mag light on my night guns forearm. Works great for night work, adjusted for the broad beam.

Yup load and unload that shot gun till you can do it in the dark by feel.



 Al


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## gilberte

Get some grenades 

I know, not helpful but I couldn't resist. GREENCOUNTYPETE gave all the good advice needed.


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## motdaugrnds

Thanks so much. You wonderful people in here have always been helpful and encouraging....

Yes, I've already begun practicing the load, unload and re-load with the shotgun. It is a semi-automatic and carries 3 shells. (Will carry 5 but only 3 are permitted by law in this county; so had to place a spring of some type in to keep the extra 2 from being stored...years ago so don't remember details of this.)

Had a 2nd cartridge for the Glock; so have that ready to put in. Tried re-loading the empty cartridge but it was too hard to push the bullets in; so it lies empty at this time. Still the one ready to go holds plenty...though don't remember how many. The man at the store where I purchased this handgun loaded them for me. (Got an extra plastic thing that slips over the cartridge and I "think" that is suppose to make loading easier. Have not figured out how to use it yet.)

Walked around looking for it this morning...with Cujo (labradore with great nose). Watched him go to all the places where I had seen the snake last night and smell. He lost the smell where my van was (last place I had seen the snake). Am wondering if that snake has curled up inside the van somewhere on the underside. Seems my driving it a bit last night would have stopped that or shushed it out; but never found it so have no idea. 

Yes, I've got some smart dogs. Both were keeping their distance while barking at the snake last night. Took quite a bit of effort on my part to get them to "move". Had to repeat it several times before they gave me enough distance between them and the snake to shoot at it; but they did. Then they both disappeared when I began shooting. ROFL Yes the shots were quite loud. Had to shoot from the hip with the shotgun as it hurts my shoulder; and of course the Glock had quite a kick but it makes the gun go upward instead of inward toward me. And with both hands holding it, worked fine. Still very loud. It took a bit of time to get the dogs to come to me after this. LOL Anyway I have no doubt should that snake show up again, my dogs will alert me. (My concern is that it has gone under my trailer to give "live" birth to its babies...if indeed it is a female.)

Got some "Raid Fumigator" I can set out under the trailer. It causes smoke to permeate everywhere and is great with bugs of all kinds. Not sure it would be strong enough to cause a snake to move out from under the trailer; however, am sure game to try it. (I remember using this something similar...don't recall the name...many years ago and know for sure it made a snake get out from under the house I was renting. I think that can had sulfur in it. Not sure this one does as have not found it written on the label; and I think sulfur is against the law to sell now.)

Took me awhile last night to calm down. Thought I never would. Took a couple of benedryl capsules and, within half an hour, was asleep. This morning nerves are still letting me know they are disturbed; yet they aren't yelling at me like they did last night....

This brings to mind the last time a copperhead was found on the place. My son brought it inside the trailer...still alive...; then when I yelled at him to get it out, he did so and killed it...as well as eight (8) babies it was about to give birth to. Oh dear!!!


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## Bearfootfarm

motdaugrnds said:


> so ran inside and got my *37 Glock*.


Is that a typo, or do you really have a Glock *37*?
That's a strange caliber choice for an inexperienced shooter.

If you aren't physically able to load the magazines you may want to consider selling it and buying a revolver.

There are also several designs of magazine loaders that can make it much easier to do.
Find a gun shop where they can show you how to use one easily so you won't be caught in that situation again.


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## Bearfootfarm

motdaugrnds said:


> Got some "Raid Fumigator" I can set out under the trailer. It causes smoke to permeate everywhere and is great with bugs of all kinds. Not sure it would be strong enough to cause a snake to move out from under the trailer; however, am sure game to try it. (I remember using this something similar...don't recall the name...many years ago and know for sure it made a snake get out from under the house I was renting. I think that can had sulfur in it. Not sure this one does as have not found it written on the label; and I think sulfur is against the law to sell now.)


I wouldn't do that while at home.

There's too much of a chance the fumes will enter the house, and odds are it won't bother the snake anyway. 

"Snake repellents" don't actually work.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I think your saying cartridge and meaning magazine for the Glock , the Magazine holds the cartridges in your case probably 10 of them.

you have been saying glock 37 , that would be a 45gap is your gun 45gap?

the glock magazine loading tool leaves some to be desired , basically it helps once you get past the first round in the magazine to help push the rounds in the magazine down as you slide the next round/cartridge in.

I prefer the LuLa magazine loading tool https://www.amazon.com/Maglula-UpLU...05223781&sr=8-1&keywords=lula+magazine+loader
the LuLa works form the first to the last round and provides a ramp to slide the new cartridge down , the ramp holds down the last one you put in the magazine.

I hope that you can get some additional training on the pistol , and practice on the shotgun , if you were near by I would come visit and help you with both.

I was looking for a youtube video to suggest to show using he glock magazine loading tool , all I found was that I should teach a course in Glock 101 for all the new Glock Users out there posting stuff on you tube , basic use , function , maintenance , carry and shooting of the Glock semi auto pistol family.


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## motdaugrnds

Yes what I have is a 45gap. And when I purchased it, I was able to load and fire it just fine. That is actually why I got it. Takes only one shot if one has good aim; and for a target larger than a snake I'm pretty good at hitting the mark. It has been a few years (about 10 I think) since I first got it; and have only practiced a few times years ago, figuring what I knew then would suffice. I think it was my nerves getting in the way this time...same with the Mossburg shotgun.

Anyway I went after the mail this morning and on my way back noticed my dog was nosing around a particular area. I walked on toward the house watching that dog; and when I saw him (Cujo) smell and refuse to get closer, I knew something was there. I must have come within two feet of that snake! There was the grown copperhead curled up putting its tongue out. It blended in so well with the ground and grass/leaves that I could have stepped on it.

This time instead of getting my guns, I got my car keys. It took half a dozen times before I was able to hold down that snake with the front tire (drivers' side). Then I got my hoe and chopped it into bits before I moved the van. Then I went back and chopped it up some more making sure I got the head. Oh yes, I took pics.....(below).....Then I put it into a hole and chopped it up so that, if it did have any babies inside (as it looked rather full) they were all chopped into "flat" bits. Then I buried it with 3" of soil. 

I am still shaking from all that; but know my nerves will calm as time progresses. I'm just so grateful God looks out for idiots like me!!!


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## Lisa in WA

Bearfootfarm said:


> Is that a typo, or do you really have a Glock *37*?
> That's a strange caliber choice for an inexperienced shooter.
> 
> If you aren't physically able to load the magazines you may want to consider selling it and buying a revolver.
> 
> There are also several designs of magazine loaders that can make it much easier to do.
> Find a gun shop where they can show you how to use one easily so you won't be caught in that situation again.


I kept a .38 revolver loaded with snake shot when we lived near Flagstaff (the place that was "too high in elevation for rattlesnakes" at 8000 ft) and we had a huge prairie rattler problem because of prairie dogs. 
It got a workout. That place was lousy with rattlers.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

maybe buy some more ammo and do some more practice , 45gap never really took off as a common round it is a 45 cal bullet on a shortened 45acp case to let it fit int he smaller frame commonly used for the 9mm or 40s&w , ballistics were virtually identical to the 45acp just in a shorter package.

glad you got the snake 


I may well have this quote wrong but still true and I have no idea who actually started it , "seldom we don't rise to the occasion , but we fall to our training" 

train hard , train smart , making good muscle memory is huge both your muscle groups are important the muscles that move your bones and the muscle between the ears.

it would be a good idea to take a piece of card board draw a snake on it in marker place it the distance away you were trying to shoot the snake (safe direction)with the shotgun and shoot the card board see what your pattern looks like , change distances and get a better feel for how far you want or need to be to shoot the snake do the same with your pistol, knowing where you need to hold is important and it can even change between boxes of ammo , one box you may hold the front sight right on the snake a different brand or bullet weight and you may have to hold just under the snake at 3-5 paces 

also as we age or due to injury we need to change up our tools it doesn't take a lot of gun to kill a snake but it takes one you make yourself familiar with and keep current on , if it is too uncomfortable to use the tool to practice then it might be time to change tools the easiest thing to change is the ammunition to an extra lite target load.

as for the restriction of 3 rounds in the gun that is a hunting thing as far as I am aware , there is not a limit to the number of rounds a shotgun can carry in a defensive situation and you could put it back to 5 round capacity if you are not hunting with it.


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## PlayingInDirt

So glad you got him!!! Oh my god how scary. I have to get some more practice in for sure, this is my nightmare.


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## oceantoad

Very good for you and the dog. Please try getting some lighter loads for that shotgun so that you can shoot it from the shoulder. if you still can't shoot the gun, maybe think about trading for a smaller gauge. Are you in an area that you could use a 22 caliber rifle? Shotgun is great for snakes, people, bear, etc., but not if you can't shoot it from the shoulder. It can be done, but not nearly as often as they do it in the movies. A light shotgun load in 12 is not to bad, I would think that you could use it. Could also see about putting a pad on the stock of the gun to soak up some recoil. Just remember, you are Wonder Woman, just got that roofing work done. More than I could have done.


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## motdaugrnds

Thank you all so much. My nerves are fine now. (Wished I had had a nice glass of wine at the time though...may pick some up next time I'm in town. LOL)

Here are a couple of pictures. One shows the Mossburg with #6 shot and the headlamp, along with the Glock set I purchased. The other is strickly the 37 Glock, 2 "magazines" and the loading tool. Discovered when I push the loading tool down, the magazine opens up for the bullet to be placed inside. Have not loaded it yet; but now believe I can. 

Am wondering about the shells I have, i.e. #6 and #4 and what type of spread they have. I was about 10 feet from the snake when shooting at it; and I thought at the time that #6 shot should have peppered it with enough shot to kill it; but it didn't. Should I be closer or farther away for that to occur? Setting up a practice board is a great idea!!! Also the gun shop from which I purchased the Glock is only half an hour drive from me and he already told me I could practice on the range he has there. So may take him up on that.....


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## Jolly

At ten feet, your pattern wasn't much bigger than the wad, especially if you have a full choke in the gun.

Personally, I think you may be over-gunned, if you rarely shoot. And possibly, over complicated. When my DIL needed a shotgun and a handgun, I got her a 12 gauge double barrel and a .38spl revolver. She had shot a bit of skeet and was familiar with the O/U shotgun. She keeps a band on the stock with some low brass 7&1/2 shotshells. The revolver is a Taurus 82(copy of a S&W Model 10) 4 inch barrel. The Taurus is usually carried in her car.

I try to get her to shoot with me when she will, which isn't very often. Maybe once every three months or so. But by keeping it simple, she doesn't do too bad.


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## Amello

Maybe think about not having a gun around? If a snake makes you too nervous to shoot straight imagine those invading hoards coming for all your food or bad guys breaking in to swipe your cherished chewed bubble gum collection.
That stern warning of: "I have a gun and I'll blow my own foot off!" probably isn't going to scare off 'the bad guys'.. 
Just my own 2 pennies worth..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

you have good quality tools to work with , I think some practice and maybe a few small changes.

definitely take the gun shop owner up on some practice on the range. while you are there bring the shotgun , ask if he can tell you what choke the barrel is , if it is a fixed choke it will be stamped on left side of the barrel but there is a good probability that that gun uses the mossburg accu-choke system and the choke can be unscrewed and replaced with a cylinder or improved cylinder choke to allow the pattern of shot to spread more.
often these guns come with a Modified choke tube this is the Middle or medium constriction , while good for game birds at 25 yards your not to likely to be 75 feet from a snake.
basically no shotgun patterns the way they do on TV , TV is fake even an improved cylinder at 10 feet will be a smaller pattern than TV

specialty extra full / super full these make for the most densely concentrated shot at ranges out to 50 yards these sometimes are calibrated to a specific type of specialty ammunition and might be used for shooting turkey and coyotes at greater range.

full choke - designed to place 70% of the pellets in a load in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards 

Modified choke - designed to put 60% of the pellets in a load in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards 

Improved cylinder - designed to put 50% of the pellets in a load in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards 

cylinder - designed to place 40% of the pellets in a load in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards 
(cylinder is no constriction just a strait tube as if the barrel was cut off with a saw at 18 inches)

Skeet - designed to place 50% of the pellets in a 30 inch circle at 25 yards 

Skeet is a game shot at very close range compared to trap where you start 16 yards behind the target thrower 
in skeet targets can start just over your head or next to your shoulder and the farthest you shoot at them is typically 25 yards 

different shells patter differently from different guns but these are general guide lines , https://1source.basspro.com/index.php/component/k2/240-hunting-gear/397-guide-to-shotgun-choke-tubes her is a link to a nice article explaining it with pictures near the bottom of this article they show shot spread estimations for common chokes they estimate that a improved cylinder spread be about 15 inches at 30 feet If I recall my spread was about 10 inches at 30 feet with my improved cylinder barrel so you want to see how your gun patterns.

but for snakes a Skeet choke that spreads the shot the most might be the best thing for you , Carlson makes chokes that are of good quality and reasonable price of about 15-20 dollars.

you DO NOT want to shoot a barrel threaded for a choke tube without a tube fully screwed into it or you can damage the threads.

so if possible a skeet choke to give you the most open pattern at close range and know what your pattern looks like and try shooting some snakes drawn on cardboard laid on the ground at different distances for practice.
a way to carry ammunition like a vest or bag
low recoil ammunition , trap or lite target loads will be plenty for a snake at short distance as long as they cycle well in your gun.
your head lamp should be fine as long as you keep fresh batteries in it but a spare light as a backup
(if your concern was 2 legged predators you might want a very bright weapon mounted light with momentary on but that is more training and tactics than snakes)
if you do not have a holster for the Glock I would recommend one , and I recommend one fitted for the Glock the Glock 20/21/37 use the same holster , a holster should hold the gun secure enough that you can with an unloaded gun turn the holster upside down over your bed and not have the gun fall out. Glock pistols have no external safety selector (not that you would trust it on a gun that did ) , the safety is keep your finger off the trigger , this is simple and this is easy to train , but it requires that when carrying a Glock a good holster that covers the trigger guard be used an additional magazine , ammunition in a magazine is usable and quick to access , ammunition not in a magazine is minutes away 2 is good but 3 or 4 magazines can make more efficient use of your training time at the range and also give you greater readily available ammunition.

if you use a vest to carry your ammunition ,magazines in the non trigger hand pocket , and shot-shells in the trigger hand pocket


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Amello said:


> Maybe think about not having a gun around? If a snake makes you too nervous to shoot straight imagine those invading hoards coming for all your food or bad guys breaking in to swipe your cherished chewed bubble gum collection.
> That stern warning of: "I have a gun and I'll blow my own foot off!" probably isn't going to scare off 'the bad guys'..
> Just my own 2 pennies worth..


you have 3 posts and you joined yesterday, if you can make a constructive post then do so , if your just here to make trouble leave.


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## oceantoad

GRENCOUNTYPETE,

Thanks for the above. I just think that she may not have the guns that are quite right for her. Sometimes you need to reach out past a hoe or rock distance to slap something down, plus hoes and shovels do not always fit into the corners that you need to get at. Losing a dog to a "no shoulders" bite is not the way to live. I am a firm believer for a woman living by herself in the country to have a firearm or two. Saw the story of the woman in Oklahoma that I think killed 17 copperheads and she had a gun. I am all for it. No need to have a medical bill in the thousands from a bite. More power to you Ms. motdaugrnds, and once again, smart dogs.


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## mnn2501

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I prefer the LuLa magazine loading tool https://www.amazon.com/Maglula-UpLU...05223781&sr=8-1&keywords=lula+magazine+loader
> the LuLa works form the first to the last round and provides a ramp to slide the new cartridge down , the ramp holds down the last one you put in the magazine.


I second that - the LULA is great!!


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## motdaugrnds

You are all so helpful. I'm grateful!

I do have a holster for the Glock and it, also, holds a separate "magazine".
I just put the shotgun shells in my pockets.

The "loader" does push down the ?? enough to push one bullit in; however, even pushing that bullit in is so hard that I've not been able to get that magazine loaded. I'll look into getting that "LULA" as I've saved the link. (The gun shop may have one.)

{....full choke - designed to place 70% of the pellets in a load in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards
....Modified choke - designed to put 60% of the pellets in a load in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards
....Improved cylinder - designed to put 50% of the pellets in a load in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards
....cylinder - designed to place 40% of the pellets in a load in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards
(cylinder is no constriction just a strait tube as if the barrel was cut off with a saw at 18 inches)
....Skeet - designed to place 50% of the pellets in a 30 inch circle at 25 yards]

Golly, these distances (multiples of 3' per yard) are much farther than I would ever be from a snake. I wouldn't even be able to see it to shoot at it. Does that mean my shotgun is useless for this type of situation because the "spread" of the shots would not be wide enough?

I do understand the guns I have are powerful and may seem to be too much for an old woman. However, when I purchased them I actually became rather efficient in firing them both and hitting the mark. Problem this time has been more my nerves than my skill as I kept shaking so much nothing worked as it should have. (Strange thing was when I was trying to sit one of my van's wheels on top of this snake. I kept thinking how beautiful that snake was and my nerves did not give me near the trouble they had before. They did act up when I started chopping the snake up though.)

All in all I'm glad I have the type of guns I have; and will practice a bit so my nerves can be better acting should I need to use the guns again.


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## Bearfootfarm

motdaugrnds said:


> Does that mean my shotgun is useless for this type of situation because the "spread" of the shots would not be wide enough?


No, but it does mean you have to aim it just as carefully as you would a rifle.


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## Hiro

I am glad you got it. Virginia law regarding shotgun magazine capacity only applies during bird hunting. You can load the gun to capacity if you aren't actively hunting fowl. It is quite likely that it was a different snake. #6 from 10 ft away with a shotgun likely did the first one in, it just didn't immediately kill it. I have had to kill numerous venomous snakes, sadly. I have only had to shoot two. A shovel is a much more effective and usually handier tool in my experience.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

in Appleseed day 2 we tell the story of the dangerous old men April 19 , 1775 , after we have told the stories of a few of the Dangerous old men we follow with the stories of a few of a women of the day. I encourage you all to go hear them told at An Appleseed.

I will give you a quote from an English news paper opposed to England's policies " If one old Yankee woman can take 6 grenadiers , how many soldiers be required to conquer America?" 


it is great marksmanship training , while we teach about our Heritage , and History 
hopefully we can inform modern Americans about the costs of their freedoms and inspire them to use the tools provided by our founders to continue the prosperity of Liberty.
as Americans we have a Unique legacy of marksmanship , freedoms and liberty , let us not squander the gifts we have been given.


sometimes someone needs different equipment , and almost always they could use more training and often after more training they find they want different equipment but that different is often not what they might have thought it was or what was suggested before they experienced it through training.



I am not there to see how her guns fit her , there is no reason a 12ga semi auto that is often a heavier gun with a light load would be any more abusive than a 20ga , if the 45gap works for her , the glock is a solid platform and more practice will tell her what she likes or doesn't like about it , although she may want to try others while at the range for comparison if that is an option.

It is every man and woman's right to own arms for their defense , safety , and all other legal uses. 

from time to time we can help someone become a safer , better skilled marksman.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Bearfootfarm said:


> No, but it does mean you have to aim it just as carefully as you would a rifle.


precisely , this isn't TV where the prop people get to make up the shot pattern any way they like 

it starts just under 3/4 of an inch it takes time and the outside forces of gravity and air resistance to start the shot spreading as the wad slows more quickly than the shot and falls away from the shot column.


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## gilberte

If you are not worried about long range accuracy or efficacy perhaps you might consider a double barrel shotgun with a minimum length barrel. Easy to load and take care of and you could load a bird shot (for snakes, crawling variety) in one barrel and buckshot in the other, for two legged snakes.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

a video for you on the Lula loader , there are a lot of bad videos on the internet but this guy is a strait shooter Hickock45 is his youtube handle he and his son John make a number of videos shooting or shooting related , he does get a little cheesy comedy at times but here you can see how it works.






when ever we get a new shooter at Pistol league they generally have a LuLa by the next shoot. 

your gun shop owner is very likely to have one at his store , they have become hugely popular in shooting in the last several years.


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## Jolly

motdaugrnds said:


> You are all so helpful. I'm grateful!
> 
> I do have a holster for the Glock and it, also, holds a separate "magazine".
> I just put the shotgun shells in my pockets.
> 
> The "loader" does push down the ?? enough to push one bullit in; however, even pushing that bullit in is so hard that I've not been able to get that magazine loaded. I'll look into getting that "LULA" as I've saved the link. (The gun shop may have one.)
> 
> {....full choke - designed to place 70% of the pellets in a load in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards
> ....Modified choke - designed to put 60% of the pellets in a load in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards
> ....Improved cylinder - designed to put 50% of the pellets in a load in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards
> ....cylinder - designed to place 40% of the pellets in a load in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards
> (cylinder is no constriction just a strait tube as if the barrel was cut off with a saw at 18 inches)
> ....Skeet - designed to place 50% of the pellets in a 30 inch circle at 25 yards]
> 
> Golly, these distances (multiples of 3' per yard) are much farther than I would ever be from a snake. I wouldn't even be able to see it to shoot at it. Does that mean my shotgun is useless for this type of situation because the "spread" of the shots would not be wide enough?
> 
> I do understand the guns I have are powerful and may seem to be too much for an old woman. However, when I purchased them I actually became rather efficient in firing them both and hitting the mark. Problem this time has been more my nerves than my skill as I kept shaking so much nothing worked as it should have. (Strange thing was when I was trying to sit one of my van's wheels on top of this snake. I kept thinking how beautiful that snake was and my nerves did not give me near the trouble they had before. They did act up when I started chopping the snake up though.)
> 
> All in all I'm glad I have the type of guns I have; and will practice a bit so my nerves can be better acting should I need to use the guns again.


I'm not totally familiar with your shotgun, some semi-autos handle light loads better than others. If it will handle low brass loads, you might want to think about getting a box of #7 and a 1/2 or a box of #8 shotshells. Snakes don't require big pellets and the lighter loads will give you high pattern density at typical snake ranges with a bit less recoil. But if your gun hangs up or does not function properly with those loads, you shouldn't use them.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

low brass or high brass is sort of an old term that doesn't hold true all the time anymore, at one point light loads were generally all low brass like the winchester extra-lite 8 shot on the left and hunting or full power loads had high brass like the green round all the way to the right , but the buckshot load one in from the left is not really high brass but is almost low brass or is where low brass used to be but it is definitely not a light round and just to show it the all red shell is a magnum steel load with no brass at all.

a Winchester AA super handicapped has the same low height brass as the extra-lite but is not as light as the extra-lite.

most manufacturers realize that if they are making 2 3/4 inch target loads a bunch of them will end up in gas driven semi auto shotguns very similar to the posters gun , and they use powders that provide enough gas volume even with a reduced recoil or shot payload weight.

basically 2 things effect recoil in a shot shell , how much shot weight your pushing and how fast you are trying to accelerate it.

check out https://www.midwayusa.com/product/9...-lite-ammunition-12-gauge-2-3-4-7-8-oz-8-shot

a target load will have less recoil than a high brass hunting load , but even they are typically 1 or 1 1/8 oz shot payloads the extra-lite use a 7/8 oz payload to further reduce recoil.

most of the time if we find a gas operated semi auto that will not cycle on a target load or lite target load , they need to be cleaned and a new set of O-rings

but yes definitely function test any round you count on and in-case you need a cleaning and O-ring or gas seal.

you will also find almost all shot shells are no longer brass based , just brass plated steel they all seem to attract a magnet these days. lower brass and steel are all part of the cost cutting measures to hold the price point on a product

and your toilet paper roll is a half inch narrower than they used to be also


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## Jolly

Most of the time, when using a shotgun, I grab one of my pumps. Usually either the BPS or an 870 Remington. But I will occasionally grab the wife's Franchise Affinity 20 gauge. It is a well balanced, good pointing weapon.

But it does not handle light loads well at all. I place a high value on dependability, which is why I like the do-everything aspect of a pump.


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## Texaspredatorhu

My SBE2 hates target loads. 2.75 mags or 3" shells, 3.5 for turkey only.


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## MichaelZ

I think you would like it where we live. Have not seen a snake in over 5, perhaps 10 years! And the only snakes we have are timid garter snakes (saw one in our flower bed 20 years ago eating a little toad) and tiny little fire snakes that you might find under a rock. But have not even seen a fire snake in many years but then again I have not been tipping too many rocks lately.

But snakes don't like up to 6 months of winter and perhaps you wouldn't either


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Micheal lives in northern Wisconsin , in far southern Wisconsin , we have more snakes mostly all small and non poisonous and If you go looking in just the right spots the Timber an Mississauga rattler but I have never seen one and the Mississauga is on the endangered list.

this is the largest snake I have ever seen in the wild in Wisconsin , it is about 6 feet long and I will admit it startled me while I was closing the gate , but I quickly identified it as a fox snake and didn't shoot it. well not with my gun , I got a few pictures of it.


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## motdaugrnds

Pete that snake is as beautiful as this copperhead was.
Michael, no I would not like 6 months of cold winter weather.

Tried to call the gun shop where I had purchased the Glock 37 and discovered it was gone. Called a Deputy Policeman dear friend of mine and he told me the gun shop was still there (as is the range). They just changed the name. So after the Sabbath and probably sometime next week, I'll give them a call and find out what times I can work out at their gun field and what type of instructions would be available for my learning experiences. (Oh yes I'm determined to be quite good at killing a snake the next time one shows up!)


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## Jolly

Jolly said:


> Most of the time, when using a shotgun, I grab one of my pumps. Usually either the BPS or an 870 Remington. But I will occasionally grab the wife's Franchise Affinity 20 gauge. It is a well balanced, good pointing weapon.
> 
> But it does not handle light loads well at all. I place a high value on dependability, which is why I like the do-everything aspect of a pump.


Old eyes and auto-correct are not your friends. Franchi, Franchi, Franchi...


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## motdaugrnds

Pete, How can I tell the "fake" UpLula magazine loader from the "real" ones? I'm planning on purchasing one of those at this gun shop when I go....


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## Bearfootfarm

motdaugrnds said:


> How can I tell the "fake" UpLula magazine loader from the "real" ones?


The name will be on the packaging and on the loader itself.
Here are some pictures:
https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&k...qmt=b&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_80vajubmt1_b


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE




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## motdaugrnds

Thanks you two for helping me understand better this loader.

I just learned there is a "caution" and a "do not use" relative to bullets for my 37 Glock. Seems it can only take the "gap" bullets and not the "cpa". No explanation though. Does anyone know why?


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## Texaspredatorhu

I'm pretty sure you mean ACP not cpa but I could be wrong. They are 2 different cartridges. 45acp is longer than a 45gap.


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## Bearfootfarm

motdaugrnds said:


> Seems it can only take the "gap" bullets and not the "cpa". No explanation though. Does anyone know why?


Yeah, what he said.

The GAP and ACP are two different cartridges, with the GAP being the least common. That's why I was surprised you own one.

GAP means "Glock Automatic Pistol" and ACP means "Automatic Colt Pistol".
They are not interchangeable and many places won't have ammo for your pistol.

Also, many clerks may not know the difference. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_GAP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP


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## big rockpile

Amello said:


> Maybe think about not having a gun around? If a snake makes you too nervous to shoot straight imagine those invading hoards coming for all your food or bad guys breaking in to swipe your cherished chewed bubble gum collection.
> That stern warning of: "I have a gun and I'll blow my own foot off!" probably isn't going to scare off 'the bad guys'..
> Just my own 2 pennies worth..


Ok I was Laughing. I don't get this excited over Snakes.

My wife got excited about a Guy trying to get in our House while I was calling the Law. Guy got his hand in, my wife shot him through the Door with Shotgun.

One time crawled up under Pickup to work on it. There was a rattler up in the Wheel Well. Nothing like your face being couple feet from one.

big rockpile


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## motdaugrnds

Yes, thank you. It is "acp" that I've been told not to use in this Glock.

I think up into the "wheel well" is where that first copperhead went as I only saw its tail under the van up against the wheel; and when I moved the van, turned on the bright lights and tried to find it, it was no where. Yet the one I found the next morning looked exactly the same size as the one under the van and was not more than 4 ft from the van. I suspect it crawled out of the wheel well that morning and started across the front yard when my lab spotted it.

Well, maybe my being frightened of "copperheads" does sound silly, especially when I have lived quite calmly with large black rat snakes for years. Still I am!! And I can hardly wait until I can get to the gun range and learn how to kill them.........


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## blanket

motdaugrnds said:


> Yes, thank you. It is "acp" that I've been told not to use in this Glock.
> 
> I think up into the "wheel well" is where that first copperhead went as I only saw its tail under the van up against the wheel; and when I moved the van, turned on the bright lights and tried to find it, it was no where. Yet the one I found the next morning looked exactly the same size as the one under the van and was not more than 4 ft from the van. I suspect it crawled out of the wheel well that morning and started across the front yard when my lab spotted it.
> 
> Well, maybe my being frightened of "copperheads" does sound silly, especially when I have lived quite calmly with large black rat snakes for years. Still I am!! And I can hardly wait until I can get to the gun range and learn how to kill them.........


 surprised that no one has suggested it yet but you may want to consider getting a single shot break open 410 for snakes. Very simple to load and shoot, very low recoil and will not skip bullets into outbuildings like the Glock. Load with 2 1/2 skeet shells with #9 shot and it will cause any snake to stop caring. That was pretty standard for a farm gun forever. My grandmother shot a bobcat in with her chickens with one 85 years ago and it worked. Get a Kolpin stock shell holder from Walmart and fill with shells


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## motdaugrnds

Blanket, I understand you suggested that I purchase a "single shot break open 410 for snakes". Will google this and find out what it looks like. Since you suggested I, also, get a "Kolpin stock shell holder" at Walmarts, I'm guessing Walmarts also carries the "single shot break open 410"? So will call them this week to find out. Thank you.

I just discovered there are several of those 410s: (Which one are you suggesting?)
...H&R 410 Tamer
...Hatfield single shot 410
...Rossi 410 single shot shotgun


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## blanket

any of those 410's will work. Don't know if Walmart in your area carries them or any guns. The Kolpin holder is just an elastic holder that fits over the stock to hold 10 shells so they are always available


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## blanket

The Rossi should be around a $130 and there all videos on Utube of people shooting them. Winchester makes skeet loads with#9 shot


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## motdaugrnds

Yes the Wal-mart here is where I purchased my 12 gauge Mossburg; so they do have shots as well.

I did some youtube video googling to try and find a video showing a 410 being used to kill snakes. Did not find even one video that fit my situation as all the shooters got up quite closely to the snake and even had to shoot at it several times before killing it. I'm elderly with poor agility and, thus, should not let myself get very close to any poisonous snake. That is mainly why I got the 12 gauge shotgun first to kill this copperhead. However, at about 10 ft from the snake, I could not kill it. If this 410 you're talking about demands I get closer to kill a snake, then it is definately not what I'm needing. (Suspect the people at the gun range may be able to help me understand distance better and what shot would work in what guns I have for my purpose of killing crawlers.)


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## blanket

You need something you can hit the snake with. A 410 will turn a snake into mulch at 30 feet if you hit it. A 410 does not kick even close to a 12 gauge so you do not have to fear shooting it from the shoulder and aiming


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## blanket

blanket said:


> You need something you can hit the snake with. A 410 will turn a snake into mulch at 30 feet if you hit it. A 410 does not kick even close to a 12 gauge so you do not have to fear shooting it from the shoulder and aiming


 Understand your being frail, that is why I recommended a 410, not a shovel or hoe. Ask your local gunshop if they have one you can shoot to try. If you can hit a snake with a 410you do not need more than 1 shot


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

but a 410 is a 130 dollar purchase with shells that cost more than 12ga and send less shot down range and really won't pattern much different than other shotgun , they all use the same goals for patterning 40, 50 ,70 % at 40 yards or 50 % at 25 yards for a skeet choke.

if it were me I would invest in a box of reduced recoil 7/8 oz 12ga shells in a 7 1/2 or 8 shot.

if they don't cycle buy a box of 12 ga 1 oz trap loads in 7 1/2 or 8 shot

if you have the remove-able choke tube I would buy a Skeet choke so that you at trying to get a 50% shot concentration at 25 yards

you have a good tool already , a 7 dollar box of extra-lite will let you know if they will work , you can always use them one at a time as a single shot 12ga for practice

if they don't cycle 5-7 more dollars for the next heavier load basic trap load

the shot spread won't change much but smaller gauge/caliber guns have less pellets

12 ga usually has a 1 1/8 oz or 1 oz of shot if they are all #8 shot there is an equal amount of pellets ounce for ounce
20ga typically has 1 oz or 7/8 oz
410 is typically 1/2 oz
410 is really the caliber of the bore , but it is a shotgun so it is till refered to as a gauge but usingt he same formula as 10,12,16, 20, 28 gauge the 410 would be a 67 gauge

gauge is figured on if you had a lead round ball that fit the bore size how many of those lead balls would it take to to equal a pound of lead

a 10 ga is .775 inch
a 12ga is .729 inch
a 20 ga is .620 inch
a 28ga is .540 inch

so if you can buy a 7/8 oz lite load for the 12 it is like your shooting a 20 but from a heavier gun that absorbs more recoil , as long as they cycle well in your gun you are good to go. even if they don't cycle and isn't much different to pull back the bolt toss in another shell and press the bolt release button vs loading a single shot.

one thing about most of the inexpensive break action shotguns is that they have a hammer that must be pulled back in-order to shoot , but if you pull back the hammer and the snake say goes under your van where you don't want to shoot , you now have a loaded gun with a cocked hammer that you have to hold the hammer back , pull the trigger and ease the hammer forward ,if you have difficulty pushing down the round in a magazine with your thumb will you have the thumb strenght to do that task make sure you test that before purchasing , yes you could just dump the round in the dirt in a safe direction but then your using ammo for nothing , you always want to keep the muzzle in a safe direction any time you are de-cocking the hammer but safe direction doesn't always mean that just because it is safe you want the round to go off .

where the Mossberg allows you to place the safety on then unload , a few but not all exposed hammer break action 410 have a safety that can be place on before lowering the hammer , but not all.
the procedure changes , but it is not that different in the number of steps


a little practice in loading an unloading should have you doing it fine it is just building a muscle memory like driving.
your van has a lot more controls than a shotgun and I bet you even find the wipers in the dark once you are familiar with the vehicle.


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## blanket

Pete, what you post is true but mostly irrelevant. While the lighter shot loads (7/8 ounce in a 12) will recoil less it will still be 75% more than 1/2 oz load in a 410. At 10-30 feet a 410 pattern density is completely adequate to grind up a snake with any choke. A single shot is about the simplest design for someone to learn to use and yes you do need to lower the hammer if you don't shoot, but then you should not cock the hammer until you are ready to shoot. The OP has already said that she is not able to withstand the recoil of her 12 from the shoulder so I doubt that even with the 7/8 load that will most likely not cycle her gun it will be to much. Again I would suggest her trying one and make up her own mind at realistic distances that one would be shooting a snake. If cost of the shells is the highest priority then use a hoe


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## Bearfootfarm

Another good low-recoil option would be a 38 or 357 revolver and shot shells.

Even a 22 revolver and shot shells will kill most snakes from a safe distance, although it's best to be within 10 feet or less.

I don't see the cost of 410 shells being a big factor since one box would likely last several years.


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## motdaugrnds

Blanket, you said at 10-30 ft a 410 pattern density is completely adequate to grind up a snake with any choke. This would be used as a "single" shot, thus not for an automatic. As for as $$... I can get what I need by simply adjusting what I purchase each month. (I grow most of my own food, including meats!)

Pete, I do want to make use of the guns I have to kill snakes if at all possible. Thank you for the information.

I'm a bit confused as to distance. When you all talk about "yards", I associate that with buying fabric to make clothes, i.e. a "yard" is 3 feet long. So at even 25 yards, that is 75 feet and much too far for me to even see a snake. So does "yard" mean something else when talking about guns?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

no it is 3 feet just like yards of fabric or football
a skeet choke puts pattern density at 50% in 40 inches at 25 yards meaning at 12 yards your likely to be closer to 20 inches 

10 feet would be 3.1 yards 21 feet is 7 yards if your wanting to shoot snakes between 10 and 20 feet your still going to have to aim with anything but with a skeet choke you should have the largest pattern possible but that may only be 3 - 6 inches but it will be dense with pellets anything in that 3-6 inches is toast.


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## Texaspredatorhu

Personally buying a 410 or a 38/357 with shotshells aren't going to solve your issue. You could buy all the guns in the world and it won't solve the problem at hand. Practice, practice, practice. And when your done practicing do it again. Being proficient with your weapons is what will prepare you. Pete has given the best advice out of anyone here. If you can change the chokes do so, load your mags and keep them loaded, the spring will not get so weak that it will fail to feed, they will become easier to load over time. But before you start spending money on more guns I would highly recommend what Pete has been saying.

These are snap caps, you can practice loading safely without risking shooting your tv. They make them in many calibers and you can practice your trigger control too. Just don't mix them with live rounds. 
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...y&utm_campaign=itwine&utm_content=055-802-020


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## Jolly

I don't want you spending money you don't want, or need to spend. If you are comfortable with your guns, they cover a wide range of circumstances. But I'm just a tad worried that you aren't comfortable with them and I don't know if it's from non-use or if you have too complicated or too large a weapon for what you need.

If that is not the case, and it's just non-use, then what others have said is correct...practice is the key.


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## blanket

agree with practice and getting familiar with what you are using as long as you can handle the recoil shooting from the shoulder so you can aim. You are safe from any snake in the United States at 10 feet. A snake can only strike half of it's body length in distance so a 3 feet long snake can only bite you at 1 1/2 feet or less. A pattern from a shotgun may only be 3 to 6 inches at 10 feet but it is still a whole lot easier to hit a snake with than a single bullet from a 45 which is less than a 1/2 inch. Your 12 gauge will work fine as Pete suggested but will kick a lot more. The single shot I recommended is a gun that breaks open like a hinge so to use it you push the lever to open, drop in a shell, close the gun, cock the hammer, aim and shoot. then open the gun to remove fired shell. Very simple. A box of 12 gauge 7/8 ounce shells cost about $7 a box of 410 1/2 ounce skeet loads are about $11. Number 9 shot is very small which means there is more to the ounce than larger shot sizes. The pattern will be fuller. The smaller pellets lose energy faster than the larger sizes so that means they won't shoot as far, but at snake distances they will have more than enough power to kill a snake. To put distance in relevance a pickup truck is about 20 feet long


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## hunter63

Back in the day....the "barn gun" took care of snakes vermin of all kinds and even pigeons...
Generally a shot gun......410 was common and was 12 ga SS.

You are gonna waste a lot of ammo trying to hit a snake with a pistol,....unless you are good with it.
Even a pistol with rat shot 38/357....tough to hit.
My tackle box gun is a Cobray .410/45lc double barrel derringer....Now kind of hard to find but "Bond" derringers are still around.



I would just use your shotgun.


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## Bearfootfarm

motdaugrnds said:


> I just discovered there are several of those 410s: (Which one are you suggesting?)
> ...H&R 410 Tamer
> ...Hatfield single shot 410
> ...Rossi 410 single shot shotgun


Any of those would work equally well.
There's even one called a Snake Charmer that would be perfect.



  





I'd look for a cheap used one at a pawn shop or gun shop instead of buying new.





Texaspredatorhu said:


> Personally buying a 410 or a 38/357 with shotshells aren't going to solve your issue. You could buy all the guns in the world and it won't solve the problem at hand.


It will solve the problem of recoil hurting her shoulder, and possibly a shotgun that doesn't really fit or is too heavy.


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## blanket

By the way a flock of free range Guinea fowl will cut down the number of snakes you see by a bunch as well as ticks and bugs


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## Bearfootfarm

blanket said:


> a flock of free range Guinea fowl


I'd rather have the snakes


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## blanket

Laughing, know what you mean but the amount of ticks they eat more than make up for their noise as well as keeping a garden free of harmful insects without spraying make them worthwhile to me. Just need to train them to roost well away from the house. Hogs work well on snakes as well but with other problems


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

with a shotgun fit is huge , this weekend we had a woman who has had several shoulder surgeries asking questions about trap and skeet , she has a shotgun , she uses for hunting but as she said it that is a few shots to make sure she is on and patterned then a few shots hunting , she wondered if her shoulder could take the 50 or a 100 round fired in one afternoon one of the other instructors was saying that the solution they found for one of their female trap shooters was an adjustable pad these are adjustable pads that come oversized and get sanded to fit your guns stock they turned the pad up to 22 degrees so that when the gun was placed in the shoulder the pad was not parallel to the gun stock but several degrees canted , this put the recoil in a better place for many female shooters a diagonal across the shoulder rather than up and down but the gun itself was up and down so that sights aligned correctly , in addition to turning they adjust up and down also.
men tent to have a vertical pocket to place the butt when they lift their trigger arm , women are shaped differently so and may have less chest and shoulder muscle mass to absorb the recoil.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...ifle-butt-plate-stock-adjuster-prod10089.aspx

https://morganrecoilpad.com/collections/frontpage/products/14m-premium-curved-recoil-pad-mega

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...ents/rifle-adjustable-pad-plate-prod6719.aspx

if you try canting the shotgun and it feels better on your shoulder this might be helpful for you 

it often looks a bit funny to be at the range and see an adjustable but plate commonly associated with a fancy gun on an otherwise very stock looking not fancy or expensive shotgun but those are often the people who had someone set them up for the perfect fit with the gun they had / liked / could afford and you would be a fool to not expect them to shoot well because they don't have a fancy gun if they went to the trouble of getting the gun fit properly, they probably also spent money on shells for practice and not fancy silver inlay.

once had a guy tell me , he sometimes wishes he had spent 600 on the gun and 2000 on ammo than the 2600 he spent on his fancy gun , he felt it would have made him a better shooter than he was , not that he was bad but he had probably gotten to the point he had 2K in ammo also meaning he had 4600 dollars into shooting as well as he did.

We (instructors) get talking about building guns for the purpose of shooting , often on a budget and once you really understand the mechanics of shooting often the answer isn't a1200 dollar shotgun outside of a shooters budget but a very strategically spent 100 dollars on exactly what maters and a lot of what matters if fit.

fit gets your eye in the exact same right place every time making sight alignment natural , getting the right length and the recoil pad situated to best fit your shoulder , be that a curved pad or a flat pad , changing the rise or drop so that when you bring the stock to your cheek then into your shoulder it lines up with you in both cheek and shoulder perfectly placing your eye in line with the bead and the recoil pad at the right angle and height in to your shoulder the most comfortable place it can be.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

the cost of shells isn't the few I use hunting , its the many I use in practice to know that I can hit when hunting.

watched a guy at the range this weekend he was talking up the trip he is taking out west , he has the box of shells it says that if he is 1.5 inches high at 100 yards then he is 0 at 200 yards and x low at 300 , he fired about 5 to confirm he had a group and adjusted the group to 1.5 high then left.

A. it was only a 100 yard range , B. the numbers on the box are a suggestion of what is possible they are gotten using a test barrel that is not the same length as yours and if your scope is mounted higher or lower than the test scope was , the numbers are not correct for you and your gun. C. he shot from a lead sled, great for ringing out the best group ,but will the rifle respond differently when he pulls the sling tight does he know?
if your going to travel half way across the country , and spend big money on a hunt , skimping on getting sighted in seems like you might be setting yourself up for a sad story to return home with.


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## blanket

Pete, agree with you a 100% on shotgun fit. I was an NRA instructor certified in rifle, pistol and shotgun, an IDNR hunters ed instructor and a USPSA range officer, shot competition for 40 years in High power, small bore 3 and 4 position, indoor and outdoor pistol, Trap, Skeet and sporting clays. I have a whole safe full of instructional shotguns with a box full of extra modified stocks that I use to teach with. I understand the importance of practice to become proficient in any of the shooting sports. But lets get practical here. The OP is an older women that is not going to be shooting a shotgun sport. She is wanting to protect herself from danger. She is not going to shoot 150 rounds a week at paper or clays. She needs something that she can shoot a snake with within the range she is comfortable with, which with a snake is from danger close to about 20 feet. It needs to be something she can shoulder aim and hit with and needs to be simple and work and safe. It also needs to be something that is not going to do damage beyond the closer range when used. It needs to be close and ready to do the job. I relate back to my grandmother having a 24 Stevens 22/410 that she never hunted with, used only for vermin and butchering, shot maybe twice a year and she always knew how to use it. She could have cared less about fit and handling. Totally different use than us gun guys. Would like to have a chat with the guy that sold her a GAP Glock but that is another story


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## blanket

Pete, by the way PAST makes recoil shields especially for women that work well. Yes they have a different muscle structure than men and the PAST shields work well. My wife, daughters and nieces use them


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I guess I am an encourager , people say they want to do something I am looking for a way they can learn if it is for them or not.

I have had a number of older ladies really surprise me over the years. 

i had a Sunday school teacher from when I was a kid and we were talking a number of years back when I went to visit my parents at Easter I was helping with the breakfast , we got talking and she started telling me all about how she was thinking about getting a 410 pump , she had always used a pump and new her way around one , but she only had her late husbands 12ga pump she had used that for years but was getting into her 80s and it was just to big for her but the city had grown up around her farm and there had been some issues in the area with crime. well one of the guys at the church that was a big shotgunner he could have easily found her just exactly what she asked for a 410 pump he had many connections and lined up the guns for banquets. she had had one years back and loved it said she could hit anything with it her favorite was flushing pigeons from the barn , but he took the your never going to need it attitude a single shot will do you.he tells her a single shot is the way to go , when she leaves the kitchen he tells me she will never use it any way 
a single shot may have done her but I think that is a terrible attitude to take when someone has a concern and wants to deal with it in a way they know they can. I may have be soured on the a single 410 will do you attitude some by that line of thinking 

having known her many years before all my life , she was actually one of my first employers , her husband died early , she ran the farm and the feed mill she owned. a very strong smart remarkable woman and not just the old lady whos age had caught up with her that people saw

yes a single will do for snakes , it will


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## blanket

Understand but she was used to shooting, I think my wife will be using her 870 12 ga , her AR15 and her Dan Wesson 357 when she is 80, and we are not to many years from getting there


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## blanket

bye the way the last thing my wife shot was a boar raccoon that was after her cats on the front porch with a flashlight and an old Iver Johnson Champion 410 that I keep by the front door. I hate it when she says "you have a mess to clean up". Guns can also be a needed tool and not a weapon.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

definitely a tool

I figure anyone who spends what has to be at least 7 or 8 hundred on tools wants more from their tools than just an occasional snake.

so working to make them a shooter makes sense

working to inform and educate every one as a shooter even if they don't continue , any truth they discover along the way is one less media lie they fall for even if they never shoot again.

yes I shake my head wondering why a G37 in 45 gap , it is a good tool , and not a bad cartridge other than it just never gained popularity but to be honest i frequently shake my head at 45 in general (45 lovers can hate me I don't care) , there is nothing wrong with the 45 a fine caliber be it acp or gap but I wish people would go 9mm and buy twice the practice ammo and practice twice as much for the same cost. not hat I am some sort of 9mm true believer it is just a cartridge there are better and worse and it does most things reasonably well but you can buy a box of 50 for 12 dollars , it has reasonably light recoil .if it was going to be a miss with a 9mm/35 cal but would be a hit with 10/40cal or 11.43mm/45cal it was going to be a really bad hit.
for me I see peoples practice as a direct relationship to cost and their budget , some people don't have the time budget , but money budget seems to reduce practice. a lot better to be a well practiced 9mm shooter than a half or less practiced 45 shooter , just sending rounds down range doesn't make you better , but planned practice with a goal , and other training tools that may not even use ammo like dry fire training can really help

I may have been Appleseeded to much , when your goal is to make everyone a rifleman , if you fall short of your goal you have at least made them a better citizen.


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## motdaugrnds

Thank you. All of you have been so kind to provide so much information; and though some may not be relevant to my situation, still hearing about how others deal with different guns has been an interesting read.

I was advised to get the Glock 37 by one telling me, all it takes is one shot and the intruder is either dead or running...with hollow points. So I went into the gun shop and practiced a bit with this hand gun. It was easy to load and easy to fire. (Now it is a bit more difficult to pull the top back to load it; however, I CAN still do it; and I have no doubt ONE shot from it will take care of any "2-legged" intruder.) I did not get this gun for snakes.

I got the 12 gauge Mossburg for snakes as I knew the shot would spread. I also found it easy to load and, though I could not fire it from my shoulder, I got pretty good aim firing it from my hip. (I suspect if I had not been so surprised and shaking when this copperhead showed up, I just might have killed it with this shotgun by shooting at it several times.)

At any rate, I see no reason to spend extra $$ purchasing another gun if I can get this shotgun to serving my needs. 

I called the gun shop and the man was so very kind. He told me his gun range was open in the afternoons and he would be glad to help me understand what killing a snake would mean using this gun. He mentioned immediately that I needed a certain type of "choke" and "shell", though I don't remember what he said. So I'm planning on going to that range sometime this week. I will pick up that UpLuLa (made in Israel) "loader" for my Glock at the same time I pick up the choke and shots I will need to use my Mossburg to kill snakes.

In the meantime, I'm in constant prayer no copperhead shows up until I have learned the way to kill it....(Beautiful snakes; but a "trespasser" on my place.)


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## Bearfootfarm

motdaugrnds said:


> I have no doubt ONE shot from it will take care of any "2-legged" intruder.)


That'a wishful thinking for any handgun.
It's best to plan on continuing to shoot until you're sure the threat has ended.
Don't fire one shot and then wait to see what happens



motdaugrnds said:


> At any rate, *I see no reason* to spend extra $$ purchasing another gun if I can get this shotgun to serving my needs.


If you can't fire the gun you have from your shoulder, that in itself is a good enough reason to consider a different gun. 

Ask them to show you a Remington 870 Youth Model 20 GA and I bet it will fit you much better.

It's very important for a shotgun (or any gun) to fit the individual who will use it the most.

You can sell the one you have to buy the other.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

motdaugrnds said:


> I was advised to get the Glock 37 by one telling me, all it takes is one shot and the intruder is either dead or running...with hollow points. So I went into the gun shop and practiced a bit with this hand gun. It was easy to load and easy to fire. (Now it is a bit more difficult to pull the top back to load it; however, I CAN still do it; and I have no doubt ONE shot from it will take care of any "2-legged" intruder.) I did not get this gun for snakes.


unfortunately that is a myth , no handgun is a death ray . period

even a 44 magnum

there are witnessed accounts of people being shot by police at just a few yards with a slug from a 12ga the guy took one round center mass failed to surrender started moving towards the cop he was shot a second time walked to the door of the convenience store to leave and collapsed at the door.

very shortly fatal but , not a death ray , like tv makes them out to be

the 12ga slug used in that account , this was some years ago but that manufacturer is still around and lists 2495 foot pounds of energy and is 72 caliber

45 gap looking at 2 of the available hollow point loads brings 358 to 488 foot pounds of energy

looking at some 9mm loads they vary but 321 to 465 fpe

45 acp also vary but 340 to 510 fpe

the common training is shoot till the threat ends. then stop if they do run , or become incapacitated

but expecting 1 shot to do it may set you up for failure

people often walk to the ambulance themselves when shot with a handgun

other people die or are incapacitated very quickly

if you like there are police videos on youtube of them shooting people multiple times and the person is still walking and shooting back

there are police video of people being shot , not good shoots , the school cook from Minneapolis a year or two ago who was shot in his car when he reached for his drivers license was still talking after being shot if I recall correctly more than once he died but it is not instant he was able to say to the cop , i wasn't reaching for my gun, ou told me to get my license.


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## motdaugrnds

Just returned from the gun shop. The owner was so kind and helpful explaining so much to me. He took the choke out of my mossburg, told me it was a "modified" choke and would work fine with what I wanted to do, i.e. kill copperheads. (He stated he could order me an "elongated" choke but the modified one would work just as well.) He patiently went over the process of loading the shotgun and talked about the different shells. He said my #6 and #4 would both kill snakes; however, he suggested getting #8. He didn't have a box of #8s but could order them for me.

This kind man took the piece out of my shotgun that prevented me from loading 5 shells into it. I then loaded the shotgun with 4 shells (ummmm "heavy" weight??) and put one shell into the chamger. With the gun on safety this kind man took me around back to his gun range. He asked me how close to a snake I would be comfortable to get and, when I told him (about 20'), he placed a water bottle that distance from me. I of course shot from the hip (not shoulder). Out of four (4) shots, I hit that bottle three (3) times. Each time it moved farther from me and I shot it again. This kind man smiled and asked me why I was in his gun range. ROFL Obviously when I'm not shaking from fright, I'm a dead shot! The shells I was using were the #6 that only made a small (maybe 2-3") spread. (When I was shotting at the copperhead, I was not able to load the shells fast enough and was shaking too badly. Otherwise that snake would have been killed quickly.)

Anyway, this kind man gave...gave...me seven #8 shells ("light" load) free of cost and told me to use two for practice so as to see how much easier they are to fire...much less kick. Thus, I have these shells now and am feeling quite confident in myself. (I asked him to order me a box of 25 light load #8 shells; so will pick those up next month sometime.)

While there I asked him about the UpLuLa loader. He had one "made in Israel" and unloaded one of my Glock's magazines. Then showed me how to use this loader, letting me do all ten cartridges. It was so very easy to load this magazine. I of course brought it home with me. 

Seems every time I'm needing help, there is someone who is right there showing such kindness to me. I'm still feeling so blessed.

P.S. I just got over my last eye surgery last Thursday and it went well and the swelling was gone quickly. I'm doing fine. So now I have a much better chance of actually seeing a copperhead before I step on it. ROFL

Oh and my Glock is semi-automatic; so getting off more than one shot would not be problematic for me.


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## blanket

motdaugrnds said:


> Just returned from the gun shop. The owner was so kind and helpful explaining so much to me. He took the choke out of my mossburg, told me it was a "modified" choke and would work fine with what I wanted to do, i.e. kill copperheads. (He stated he could order me an "elongated" choke but the modified one would work just as well.) He patiently went over the process of loading the shotgun and talked about the different shells. He said my #6 and #4 would both kill snakes; however, he suggested getting #8. He didn't have a box of #8s but could order them for me.
> 
> This kind man took the piece out of my shotgun that prevented me from loading 5 shells into it. I then loaded the shotgun with 4 shells (ummmm "heavy" weight??) and put one shell into the chamger. With the gun on safety this kind man took me around back to his gun range. He asked me how close to a snake I would be comfortable to get and, when I told him (about 20'), he placed a water bottle that distance from me. I of course shot from the hip (not shoulder). Out of four (4) shots, I hit that bottle three (3) times. Each time it moved farther from me and I shot it again. This kind man smiled and asked me why I was in his gun range. ROFL Obviously when I'm not shaking from fright, I'm a dead shot! The shells I was using were the #6 that only made a small (maybe 2-3") spread. (When I was shotting at the copperhead, I was not able to load the shells fast enough and was shaking too badly. Otherwise that snake would have been killed quickly.)
> 
> Anyway, this kind man gave...gave...me seven #8 shells ("light" load) free of cost and told me to use two for practice so as to see how much easier they are to fire...much less kick. Thus, I have these shells now and am feeling quite confident in myself. (I asked him to order me a box of 25 light load #8 shells; so will pick those up next month sometime.)
> 
> While there I asked him about the UpLuLa loader. He had one "made in Israel" and unloaded one of my Glock's magazines. Then showed me how to use this loader, letting me do all ten cartridges. It was so very easy to load this magazine. I of course brought it home with me.
> 
> Seems every time I'm needing help, there is someone who is right there showing such kindness to me. I'm still feeling so blessed.
> 
> P.S. I just got over my last eye surgery last Thursday and it went well and the swelling was gone quickly. I'm doing fine. So now I have a much better chance of actually seeing a copperhead before I step on it. ROFL
> 
> Oh and my Glock is semi-automatic; so getting off more than one shot would not be problematic for me.


If you have any take away from all of this it should be to spend the time and money and do some practicing with all of your guns. Whomever told you that if you shoot someone 1 time with your Glock they are going to be stopped has no clue at all about what they are talking about. That is based on personnel experience that you don't want to get


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## oldasrocks

hunter63 said:


> Back in the day....the "barn gun" took care of snakes vermin of all kinds and even pigeons...
> Generally a shot gun......410 was common and was 12 ga SS.
> 
> You are gonna waste a lot of ammo trying to hit a snake with a pistol,....unless you are good with it.
> Even a pistol with rat shot 38/357....tough to hit.
> My tackle box gun is a Cobray .410/45lc double barrel derringer....Now kind of hard to find but "Bond" derringers are still around.
> 
> 
> 
> I would just use your shotgun.


 I have one of those. I bought it recently at a garage sale for $40.


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## krackin

Get a two piper, side by each. Sounds like a 20 in your case at this point. That means get a double barreled shotgun in 20 ga. with side by side barrels. Keep what you have yet get a revolver to practice with. Learn to shoot.


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## seagullplayer

I don't care for snakes. The man at the gun shop gave you good advise.

I have an old 22 revolver I keep loaded with shot shell for just such business.
I often take mine to the mailbox with me...


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## Shrek

The guy at my gun shop reminded me that killing a snake with normal pistol ammo is just pure luck after the first shot because the way a snake moves your always shooting where it was.

A snub 38 or 357 revolver with shot shells patterns out nice at 10 feet to shred them in two rounds max.

I carry my pocket holstered .38 in my draw pocket and an empty speed loader and a speed loader with either my snake shot or hollow points in it in my other pocket during snake season.

If I go out into the snake prone areas on my place, I breach my revolver and store my carry loads in the empty loader and speed load the snake shot and do the same in reverse after leaving the snake zone.


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## motdaugrnds

ROFL You sure sound well organized...all of you sound like you know exactly what to do and are comfortable with getting it done.

I have not seen another snake (not even Blacky) since this last encounter with the copperhead; so maybe they're intimidated....ROFL....well I'm a dead shot when I'm not shaking. I will simply remember to "breath" should I see another; and hopefully that will calm my nerves so I won't keep dropping shells....LOL Yes, I find the whole episode quite comical now....


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

we did pistol drills tonight , at the range with some of the guys from our club bowling pin shoot , with light disappearing quickly we just got out some steel and ran through some drills rather than set up all the pins over and over.

one that we did was to take two barrels but anything would work , place them about 12 feet apart you had to start in the middle the timer sounded , step to the right of the right barrel fire a round at the right target , move to the left of the left barrel fire a round on the left target , targets were 66% IPSC steel I think that makes them 12 wide by 16 tall or there about they are designed to represent the middle of a person or a person at greater distance 

they were at 25 feet 

if you are in shape enough to do it try it some time at your home range provided you have a safe direction to shoot , remember the gun has to stay down range while you move but you can really get huffing and puffing with 10 rounds and 10 1/2 crosses of just 12-15 feet basically the equivalent of running 50 yards but in a lot less space.

one of the guys we shoot with is a retired deputy sheriff , he said they used to have to run 50 yards then draw and shoot , to get their heart beat up and then try and hit a target the cross over drill gets your blood pumping and makes you shoot fast just as soon as you stop moving


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## motdaugrnds

ROFL I can just see myself "trying" to run...more like a fast and wobbly walk....ROFL Think the best way for me to practice is standing still and breathing...LOL


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

thats why I said if your in shape enough.
not everyone is 

but for those that are adding movement and changing it up is a much better test of your skill


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## barnbilder

Snakes are pretty harmless compared to hot lead bouncing off of rocks and cars and asphalt. A hoe is a much better tool for killing snakes. If you must kill them. Plenty come and go without you knowing it, you aren't likely to affect the population by killing the ones you see, and the ones you see aren't the ones that get you.


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## Dutch 106

*motdaugrnds *

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...aign=Banner+Remarketing&utm_content=CriteoEOS



look at the bottom of the page glock 37 magazines for $15.



*
First off, well done, you did your best to handle the problem. and kept working it till it was silly to continue. Then quit.
Not, what any number of good men and woman have done over the years, imagine people who got so focused (I'm doing my best to be kind) that tires got added holes (and survived any bullets bouncing back)
Did anybody give you an atta girl. For thinking of using the car (the most dangerous tool you own) to do the bugger in, They are one of the few snakes I would not trust on the property. Anything mad enough to attack anything moving, is on the better off dead list. Not that you should necessarily, take anyone else's advice I can recommend Green county as being both very knowledgeable on this subject , and smart enough to give good advice. 
That said who ever heard of an old guy not pontificating. I gained most of my firearms experience in a small town police department that because I was interested, and had been practicing with hand guns for 10 or so years. I became the range master and had to learn to teach people mostly semi interested in shooting and believing shooting well, was impossible. because they didn't really care. By my standards (well of course you shoot well, you practice every week, cheater! EH!)
I'm many years beyond carrying a gun as part of a living. But I still cheat (can you tell, that still stings) and practice either handgun, rifle or shotgun weekly. I carry everyday, and will, till I decide I'm not able. I turned 65 last week.
I was able to get the semi-interested to shot capably, with Smith and Wesson revolvers, model 10 heavy barrels in 38 special Specifically (cheap practice ammo, something to run past a gun dealer, so he can show you what greencounty was talking about) and with there is a reason that many knowledgeable gun nuts recommend them, for less experienced shooters.
I can understand how you ended up with a Glock 37 45GAP . An oddball cartridge Probably not very economical, to shoot in particular. Can you find that ammo at Walmart? I've never looked.
A Mossberg 12ga is an excellent, utility tool. Very lightweight, a potential problem. You might try and pull it in very tight to your shoulder, will make it hurt less. *Find A shotgunner to show you how, counter intuitive I know.

* As a number of our neighbors here have said, practice, practice, practice. Look over your budget and see what you can afford, if its only one box of each every 3 months that's better than none, by a huge amount. I enjoy reloading so my ammo is much cheaper for me. Which is how I practice so much.
Good luck*
Dutch


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## motdaugrnds

Dutch I'm quite thankful for your comments. It means much to me to know others see the value in how I handled the situation under the condition I had to deal with, i.e. emotions shot...yeah pun intended. 

I know some think the guns I chose were not what I needed; however, I'm satisfied with both. And yes practice off and on will help. Also, after going to the gun range and finding out I still had good eye>hand coordination, my confidence returned. (Have not seen a copperhead since and now it is too cold for them to show up; so won't know until next year if my nerves will stay calm...er next time one shows up.) Still I'm feeling pretty good at my handling of the situation; and your comments help a lot. Thanks again.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

glad your getting to the range and getting your confidence back


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## fordy

...........I'm late to this thread , BUT , the absolute best tool to kill snakes is a long handled Hoe with a bright flashlight taped too the handle !!!! You're just going to shoot yourself or one of your dogs because you're operating in a state of emotional distress and probably not thinking as clearly , as you should BE !
...........Copperhead's are rarely alone.......if you see one there are bound to be more close by . They like wet , damp piles of wood with lots of shade . So , try to burn any trash piles you have close to your home or any that are within any dog run or animal paddock or barn . , fordy


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## kruschev

wow. _If you're that easy to shake up and that unfamiliar with your guns, you'd best get in a lot of training, ASAP, cause you're more of a danger to yourself and those around you than you are to any invader. I suggest a .22lr rifle for most pests. They even make a snake-shot load for the .22. I'ts worthless for nearly everything, but just fine (from a rifle not a pistol) for snakes, at about 5 ft from the muzzle. not any further and remember to aim for the head. The 12 ga can ruin a tire, the .22 birdshot will not._


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## Clem

Know a lot about being a self-sustaining, 76 year old lady, living on a homestead, alone, do ya??


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## kruschev

, I know what inept people should not be bothering with, gunwise. The shotgun is pointless and a Glock is a very expensive gun. A .22 rifle and a .38 revolver, a few chambers loaded with CCI snake loads, makes a lot more sense for her. Somebody did her a bad turn advising her to get what she has. Sell the shotgun and the glock. and have plenty of money left over for a used .22lr autorifle and a used Taurus .38 (4" barrel) A good .22lr rifle, full of Stinger hp's, is no joke for defense, out beyond the ranges at which pointing and praying with a .38 suffices (ie, 6 ft or so, in her case) and the .22lr rifle is very cheap to practice with, 6c per shot, offering quiet, real ability to dispatch problem critters, can be held and used in just one hand, even by someone who's pretty frail, as she calls 911.


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## Clem

Everybody has an opinion. Fortunately for the rest of the world, yours is no more valid than hers.


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## Bungiex88

A shovel does just fine on a snake head


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## muleskinner2

We get rattle snakes in the yard all the time. My wife just kills them with a shovel. I'll have to go look, but I don't think it has a flashlight on it.

Muleskinner1


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## HeavyHauler

motdaugrnds said:


> Both my dogs were barking a lot; and when I went out to check I saw what looked like a grown copperhead curled up in my front yard just in front of my van. I ran back inside and got my 12 gauge and couldn't remember how to load it. Finally got it loaded and it would not fire. Finally took it off safety and shot at the snake. It jerked as though I had hit it; but then it started coming toward me. I could not get my gun loaded again; so ran inside and got my 37 Glock. I shot at that snake but apparently missed it and that was my last bullet in the gun. Ran back inside to get more shotgun shells (#6) and get my headlight. (It was around 10pm so was dark except where my night light was shining.) When I got back outside the snake was under my van up against the left wheel. I managed to get inside the van and was trying to drive over the snake. I obviously didn't or I would have found a dead snake. It is now missing and I have no idea where it is. The last time I saw it move it was headed toward my trailer; and I know there are ways it can get under the trailer. Thus, now I cannot stop shaking....
> 
> What do I do now???? (I've re-loaded both the shotgun and the glock...)


Lol, rattled.


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## motdaugrnds

Well for those of you thinking this old lady might shoot her own foot off, just know living with a "psychy" split all my life has its advantages....such as being able to think clearly while still contending with shot nerves....muahahahah


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## oceantoad

Motdaugrnds,

I like your laugh, sounds kind of mad scientist or serial killer like.

Me, I am kind of partial to a flashlight. Had a no shoulders that I could not see, but could hear. 8 shots of 22 and no luck. 1 shot of 12, I think OO, and no luck. Next shot of 12 and I knew where he was, put hm on my back porch. Yea, I guess I would go for a light.


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## ridgerunner1965

I haven't read all these posts but did read quite a few of them.

myself am very familiar with just about all firearms.

my favorites are the simple break open shotguns.i keep a few around in every shed I have. see a copperhead, I simply cock the hammer and fire. no kids here so they can stay loaded all the time but if they were not loaded in a couple seconds I could load them and fire.

regardless of law or whatever I don't tolerate poison snakes. harmless snakes can go on there way.



I have known several people bitten by copperheads and it was not a fun time for them.

I think the op would best be served by getting a simple single shot shotgun that is closer to her skill level. the glock is almost worthless unless yu have the skill to hit the snake in the head


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