# Laptop Longevity



## Cabin Fever

On average, how many years should a $500 laptop (PC), that is used every day for 8 hours (+/-), last?

My 17" HP laptop, that I purchased in 2011, has been giving me blue screens all day long today.


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## sisterpine

I have a 17 inch HP laptop purchased in 2010 that is still going strong though the last two years it has not been used much. From 2010 till 2015 it was used to put me through grad school and run a business so 10 plus hours per day. I do think five years of heavy use is pretty good for a lap top....if only the battery lasted so long.


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## In The Woods

There are 2 things to look at - hardware and software. What operating system are you using?

A laptop is really not designed for such heavy use. The main problem is heat - or getting rid of the heat. Cheap laptops aren't very good at this.

I would do a format of the hard drive and re-install the operating system. I would bet that part of the problem is the software getting buggy. Then I would also get the rear cover off and give it a good cleaning - I bet there is a lot of dust in the heatsink and fan/vent. That can also cause problems like you are experiencing.

That is why a desktop is better for heavy use. The air flow and cooling are far superior. Or a tablet like an iPad which is totally solid state - no moving parts equals much less heat. And no fans/vents to worry about getting clogged up.

Since I am chair bound most of the day my iPad is on all day and used quite often. Never gets hot and never had a problem in years.


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## MichaelZ

Generally, they don't break if you keep them cool. They just get so bogged down or screwed up cause updates are no longer happening, that they become inoperable. Happens after about 5-7 years. Then you set them aside, thinking you will take it in to get "cleaned up" and working again, but you never get around to it and instead go out and buy another (eliminating the incentive to get the old one working right). Another 4 years later you find the old laptop tucked in a box or drawer, wondering what you should do with it, knowing you should not just donate it with your personal information. But in a short year or so another laptop will be added to the collection. If they accumulate, you might get creative with a large sledge hammer making sure your info from your old laptop(s) does not fall into the wrong hands. They get you. Every 5 or so years they get you - the system guarantees it.


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## Hitch

2011 seems kinda old to me, especially for a PC where the OS can become bogged down by updates and add-on software. If you want to keep your computer there are two suggestions.

Max out the RAM on your laptop and replace the hard drive with a SSD (solid state drive) drive. Unlike a traditional hard disk drive, SSD drives are like RAM with no moving parts. It will drastically improve your boot-up time and opening applications. As an example, my MacBook Pro probably took 2-minutes to bootup before I ungraded to a SSD drive. Now it boots up in about 15 seconds. Best bang for your buck after RAM.


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## hunter63

Thought this HP was gonna die in 2013...was around awhile before that(?)...not sure of age.
Even has a corner, and hinge glued with Gorilla Glue. 
So bought a 2 new smaller ones...got everything set up and copied all information...(need to up date pic)....but hasn't been run for over a year....
Same with the second unit.

This one is getting hinky on vid's on IE as well a "long running scripts" so did the switch to Google Chrome work much better. but vid's don't have sound . 

I sure I have so much crap in it's memory.... that it's getting slow and forgetful ....
Like me. 
PS I do like the bigger screen on this older one......


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## HermitJohn

Its a shame, I have an ancient single core Panasonic Toughbook, that still works fine, but it weighs a ton and battery charge lasts less than half hour. In emergency it would still work as substitute desktop. Plenty powerful enough with Puppy Linux for day to day household stuff. But my 2006 HP desktop still works fine and only let me down once when one of memory chips went bad. So not like I need spare for that purpose. Desktop is hyperthreaded single core so can run 64bit system. It came with XP, but now has unactivated 64bit win10 for tax software since tax software no longer can run on XP, but day to day use is a 32bit version Puppy Linux. The old critter just keeps on, keeping on. Super reliable. Be pointless to replace it.

Now I have two of the mini netbooks I bought less than $30 to play with. Both win10 from factory, one had fubar install win10, the other a broken screen. New screen for the one was $18. I have less than total of $30 total in each. Both work fine. Both fairly new within couple years. Think they are still selling similar new for $150 to $200. Honest anybody giving that much is crazy, but fine for $30 laptop. They are all in one motherboard (like a tablet) with 32GB eMMC drive (somewhere between thumb drive and an SSD) soldered to the motherboard so you want more space, you have to do it via usb and external drive. The one still running win10, its relatively fresh install. Had to block it phoning home, first cause I only have metered cellular internet so the constant churning win10 updates would cost me a fortune. And second, lot people complaining win10 with its constant marketing updates quickly takes over all available space on the 32GB drive. You clean up win10 to where install is 9GB and lock it there, there is plenty space for this type machine. This is small super light weight machine for word processing, light surfing, and email. Not gaming or processing video. I use the one with win10 mostly for Kindle app, makes great light weight ereader. The other was just not getting used though win10 worked fine on it, so been experimenting to find a version of linux that will install to eMMC drive and boot reliably. ACER went out of its way to make a very linux unfriendly bios. Linux will boot, but sometimes can take multiple attempts to get it to boot without hanging or crashing, which is annoying beyond belief. I can easily put win10 back on but no real point as it would then just be another win10 netbook and be ignored. Trying to get linux to boot reliably has become sort of interesting project in of itself. I am getting closer. Found one particular version Slitaz Linux that will boot very reliably from live cd and external usb cdrom. No idea why that particular version boots so reliably on this netbook and no other linux does, newer version Slitaz wont boot at all, crashes mid boot with apic error like many other linux distributions. Use the noapic GRUB command and it hangs mid boot. The Slitaz installer wont see the eMMC drive so trying to get it installed manually, hoping it will boot as reliably. This is tricky but interesting puzzle.

I doubt the netbooks will last long term, they are made as cheap as possible. Quite opposite of that old Toughbook which truly is tough. The batteries are incredibly expensive on these netbooks, considering the price of the whole machine, and one of the netbooks, I am not certain could run without battery. You let battery completely run down, you cant just plug in adapter and boot up, you have to let battery charge for fifteen or twenty minutes before it will boot. So unlikely it would boot at all with a funky battery. Oh batteries on these supposedly not user replaceable, but they mean you dont just unsnap one and snap in another, it requires lot dissassembly. In other words they intend netbook as disposible item like those old sealed disposible flashlights that you couldnt open up to replace battery.


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## alleyyooper

I have a HP pavilion G6-1d6Ous note book bought in 2005. It is still going strong just ordered a new battery for it last Friday and installed it Tuesday evening so it is back in tip top shape. I don't save pictures on it they go on a flash drive and I de frag it often. I did install Win 10 on it and really hated it a lot so removed it. Had problems for a while finally took it in where I had bought a manintaince program for up to 3 computers for 5 years and had them wipe hard drive clean and reinstall win 7, All is good now. they get a regular cleaning inside and out ever so often about a year and a half. When I was shopping local for a new battery fellow wanted to sell me a new lap top, Not unless it is an apple Windows 10 turned me off. 

 Al

 Al


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## Gary in ohio

The longevity of a laptop is often more related to the operating system then the hardware. In the original request the blue screen of death has nothing to do with the laptop but more the OS. Windows 7 came out in 2009 so any hardware before that will most likely perform poorly on win 7 and 10. There are only a few moving parts in a laptop, The hard drive on older laptops but newer ones are SSD and have no moving parts, You have a couple of fans that usually dont die, just get noisy and finally the keyboard.
The disk,fan and keyboard on most laptops are replaceable. SO how long will they last, Depends, If it sets on you desk all day and isnt tossed around its should last 10+ years and only obsoleted by the OS no longer being supported on the older hardware. 
My laptop is about 7 years old and has been on 24x7 pretty much its entire life, runs great. Now it was a business class laptop so its built a little better than a consumer model but I see it being around for a bit longer. No need to upgrade.


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## HermitJohn

I know people are turned off by the idea, but its really useful to learn how to reinstall your operating system and to have the media available to do it. Also useful to make an independent cloned backup of your system every once in a while to a spare hard drive. I got used to the idea back in win95/98 days when it seemed like I had to reinstall every three months. It frankly was just easier and faster to reinstall than it was to diagnose it, especially if you used ghosting software rather than original install disk. That way all updates and software reinstalled in one fell swoop. Luckily anymore windows is lot more stable, well if you lock it down. The system itself is pretty stable, the instability is the constant churning from the marketing updates.

I am no big fan of Microsoft, but have played a lot with win10 now. Its really not too bad, if you strip out the metro app garbage, and then lock it down with firewall so its not playing Mata Hari and trying to constantly update itself in order to sell you stuff. My notion, you are always better off not using the software that comes with windows. Not only is it going to be more likely to spy on you, but its going to be point of attack by the malcontents out there wanting to cause mischief. For simple reason that most people are going to use what comes with their computer and MS still has large share of the market. Reason I am not at all attracted to Google Chromebooks. You are locked into doing it all their way unless you jailbreak it and install linux.


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## hunter63

All the "repair/reinstall... stuff is not gonna happen for me...unless I can fix it with WD-40, duct tape, gorilla glue or wire ties
Old guy with no patience. 
I even have a problem remembering passwords...so I have them taped on the edge of the screen...


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## arabian knight

hunter63 said:


> I even have a problem remembering passwords...so I have them taped on the edge of the screen...


 I sure am glad this Mac has a special place to safe passwords. I can delete all cookies and such and the passwords are not touched. I just click on the password space and it fills in both log in name, and the password. COOL.
But I also have them written down and made some extra copies too. LOL


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## hunter63

arabian knight said:


> I sure am glad this Mac has a special place to safe passwords. I can delete all cookies and such and the passwords are not touched. I just click on the password space and it fills in both log in name, and the password. COOL.
> But I also have them written down and made some extra copies too. LOL


This did bite me in the butt... as using Google Chrome....didn't know what password were used by auto fill on IE for several forums....Including ....Backwoods home forum.
It will auto fill with the dots.......????
Oh well....

I can get on in IE and did the pass work recover to Backwoods home administration ...was told there isn't one any more......


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## Nevada

Cabin Fever said:


> My 17" HP laptop, that I purchased in 2011, has been giving me blue screens all day long today.


As long as your laptop has enough power to run your operating system and applications well then it should be fine, regardless of age. But 2011 isn't all that old. People aren't replacing computers as often as they used to because new groundbreaking features aren't introduced as quickly as they used to.

I refurbish a lot of laptops, and the two things I always do during renovation is, 1) clear the heat sink of dust so air can flow through it freely, and 2) install a fresh cmos battery. That's in addition to replacing any parts that don't perform correctly, such a new battery, keyboard, or LCD panel.

What you're describing is a heat problem, most likely caused by a clogged heat sink. That makes the processor chip malfunction. Errors will occur that will result in the blue screen. If heat is the culprit then it wouldn't matter what operating system you are running, the system will still halt on an error (Mac & Linux call it a kernel panic, but it's the same thing as a blue screen). But when the processor cools back down it will usually function normally with no permanent damage.

The good news is that clearing the heat sink of dust doesn't have to cost you anything. Just open the machine, clear out the dust mat, and reassemble. You can find disassembly instructions for most laptop models ar youtube.

To give you an idea of what the problem looks like, watch this short clip.






If you purchased your laptop in 2011 then it should have a dual core processor and support 64-bit software. It's worth opening up to clean the heat sink.


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## MichaelZ

Now on some old computer with say Vista, won't you have to pay a fairly large sum to install a current operating system?


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## HermitJohn

MichaelZ said:


> Now on some old computer with say Vista, won't you have to pay a fairly large sum to install a current operating system?


Lot of free linux distributions out there! All uptodate and everything! Runs latest version of Firefox or Chrome or Chromium or Opera. Install them on a million computers if you so desire, no limit. Thats the best choice on older computer.

But IF the hardware supports it, you can install win10 LEGALLY without activating it and use it indefinitely. If you have win7 or newer, you can even officially upgrade and it will be activated, they left open a backdoor when their original offer of win10 upgrade expired. If you leave it unactivated, it will have a watermark on screen and you cant synch it with other computers on your Microsoft account, and you wont be able to personalize it with own wallpaper. Thats it, there is no time limit. It will autoupdate just like a fully activated version. And you may get an occasional nag popup wanting you to activate.

All this is perfectly legit. Use it like this for free forever with Microsoft's blessing. Now if you set up the firewall to block it phoning home, the restrictions go away. Seems that if it cant contact the activation servers, it doesnt impose the restrictions. If you like your computer gossiping with M$ behind your back, there are also end runs to get rid of watermark with free third party watermark software, and to set your preferred wallpaper by substituting your image file for the ugly blue default wallpaper.


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## Nevada

MichaelZ said:


> Now on some old computer with say Vista, won't you have to pay a fairly large sum to install a current operating system?


There are ways around that.


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## MichaelZ

Linux is sounding better and better. Would this be an option for some old laptop that has become disfunctional? I have at least two of them. And it sounds like Linux is safer with respect to malware?


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## Nevada

MichaelZ said:


> Linux is sounding better and better. Would this be an option for some old laptop that has become disfunctional? I have at least two of them. And it sounds like Linux is safer with respect to malware?


Linux still has problems with viruses and malware. That's because there is a lot of interest in compromising Linux servers.

I like Linux as a server platform. In fact I much prefer it to Windows, mostly because of my familiarity with it and it's stability. My server goes for months at a time without restarting. But I still use Windows for my workstation. The only reason I would consider using a Linux desktop for a workstation would be if the laptop didn't have enough memory and processor resources to run Windows.

Linux was developed by nerds, and for nerds. User friendliness isn't as much of a priority as it is for Windows. You'll have a pretty steep learning curve when you first start using Linux.


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## HermitJohn

MichaelZ said:


> Linux is sounding better and better. Would this be an option for some old laptop that has become disfunctional? I have at least two of them. And it sounds like Linux is safer with respect to malware?


If its dysfunctional because of software problem. It wont repair broken hardware. And yes linux is less popular as a workstation desktop so its less of a target. Activate the included firewall and let your browser and email client do their updates. Or manually update them every few months.

The downside is if you NEED some commercial windows only software, then dont expect it to run automagically. It may be possible to make it run using WINE, but usually this is quite time consuming and maybe software even if it runs maybe slower or not fully functional. Just saying. Linux is not a free version of windows. Its its own operating system with its own software.


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## HermitJohn

M


Nevada said:


> Linux still has problems with viruses and malware. That's because there is a lot of interest in compromising Linux servers.
> 
> I like Linux as a server platform. In fact I much prefer it to Windows, mostly because of my familiarity with it and it's stability. My server goes for months at a time without restarting. But I still use Windows for my workstation. The only reason I would consider using a Linux desktop for a workstation would be if the laptop didn't have enough memory and process resources to run Windows.
> 
> Linux was developed by nerds, and for nerds. User friendliness isn't as much of a priority as it is for Windows. You'll have a pretty steep learning curve when you first start using Linux.


Most of bad stuff is aimed at linux servers cause they are widely used. Highly unlikely you will run into any of it using linux as a workstation desktop. I have never had problem with virus or worms or malware on linux and I've run it since win98 era. 

And no offense but I disagree with Nevada on current versions of linux being somehow hard to use. They are not that difficult once installed. Some you really wouldnt know the difference if you use say Firefox and Thunderbird on windows, they will look identical in linux and you can use the same extensions. 

Most linux come with all the software you will need. Look at current version Knoppix, they fully pack their live dvd with amazing amount of linux software, just about anything you can think of. But even if you choose some other distribution, most have a pretty good package manager that will download and install software you want to add plus dependencies it requires. Usually about any distribution you pick will use either Debian, RedHat, or Slackware repositories and the required package system to access them, download needed packages, and install those packages. Some also have their own smaller repositories. But I remember past times where installing non included software meant even compiling it from source and then tracking down the right libraries to make it work on your system. Much like in old days you were forever tracking down windows ddls or drivers or whatever.


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## MichaelZ

So will open source software like OpenOffice run on Linux? 
Mostly, I would like to make these old laptops functional as an internet browser and to email things. I probably would not be doing too much else, but OpenOffice would be nice.

Cause right now, sitting in a drawer, these laptops are not do'in too much!


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## backwoodsman7

MichaelZ said:


> So will open source software like OpenOffice run on Linux?


No one uses OpenOffice on Linux anymore, but LibreOffice either comes with or is readily available for any Linux distro. But on old, slow machines, unless you really need a full-blown office suite, you may find something like AbiWord works better.



> Mostly, I would like to make these old laptops functional as an internet browser and to email things.


They'll work fine for light-duty tasks with an appropriate Linux distro. There are a number of distros made for old/slow machines; which you'd want depends mostly on how fast they are and how much memory they have.


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## HermitJohn

Yes there is a linux version of Open Office. Libre Office too. Knoppix live dvd comes with complete Libre Office suite built in. Think Xubuntu had it built in too. Probably in lot of medium to large size distributions, can be added to smaller distributions if you so desire. Personally I've rarely had real need for word processor beyond Geany or Mousepad. There are some others between Mousepad and Libre. Think ones called Gnome Office and Kword. And one they used to include with Puppy Linux, Abiword. 

Thunderbird email client is same in linux as windows version. Also Claws is pretty good email client, there are others of course. Firefox/Seamonkey/PaleMoon/Chrome/Chromium/Opera browsers both windows and linux. Kmeleon is light weight windows browser but runs very well in WINE.

Now if you have less than 2GB RAM, suggest you avoid linux distributions using KDE or Gnome desktops, those are pretty resource hungry and on older hardware going to be slow. Lot lightweight desktops or various combos of windows manager and file manager. Puppy uses JWM (Joe's windows manager) and ROX file manager. I particularly like ROX, best file manager I've seen in any operating system. No idea why it isnt more popular. Probably cause if you havent used Puppy, you probably never seen it. Though it can be added to any linux distribution. Xubuntu I recently been playing with, it uses light weight desktop called Xfce. Its ok. I like Xubuntu much better than regular Ubuntu with the Gnome desktop.


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## Gary in ohio

Nevada said:


> Linux still has problems with viruses and malware. That's because there is a lot of interest in compromising Linux servers.


Linux has far less security issues than windows does. MOst of the Linux issues are with services that most desktop users dont run. Any good linux server should be stripped to the bare bones and only be built with the packages needed to perform the task at hand. Workstations inherently have more packages, but when building a work station select the smallest built then add what you need when you need it.


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## Heritagefarm

A mac laptop will probably last so long that the hardware no longer supports the new software coming out, say 15 years or so provided you give it attention when it needs it (like replacing dead fans, etc).


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## DryLandFish

I've got old toshiba laptops that must be 15 years old. Still run the low-resource Linux distros great. Some I don't even have a real hard drive installed anymore and run them off a CD or a USB stick. This laptop I'm typing on must be 6 years old or so. Is running Linux Mint like a champ with just about all the software I'd like. The Puppy variants are great for old hardware.


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## Nevada

DryLandFish said:


> I've got old toshiba laptops that must be 15 years old. Still run the low-resource Linux distros great. Some I don't even have a real hard drive installed anymore and run them off a CD or a USB stick. This laptop I'm typing on must be 6 years old or so. Is running Linux Mint like a champ with just about all the software I'd like. The Puppy variants are great for old hardware.


That's fine if it works for you. But the thing is that you can buy used dual core processor laptops for under $100. There's no real financial advantage to using older than a Core 2 Duo processor laptop. In fact if you shop around you can even find refurbishable early generation i3, i5 & i7 laptops for under $100.


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## HermitJohn

Nevada said:


> That's fine if it works for you. But the thing is that you can buy used dual core processor laptops for under $100. There's no real financial advantage to using older than a Core 2 Duo processor laptop. In fact if you shop around you can even find refurbishable early generation i3, i5 & i7 laptops for under $100.


You can get a core2duo or turion64 for under $20, most likely wont have hard drive or OS, and probably need new battery if you need laptop to be portable, and at that price usually doesnt come with power adapter to charge battery. Anymore you would be hard pressed to find a single core processor , still few pentium M laptops on ebay. They are usable, least last generation of them, but kinda pointless unless somebody just gives you one or maybe if you found a pristine one for $10. Make it even simpler, if you need just basic laptop, big thing, you want one with USB2. Some of older pentium M didnt. USB1 means its next to impossible to boot from external usb drive. I found a workaround few years ago, but it was SUPER SLOW and not very reliable. And once you get up newer, UEFI bios can be pain. Most are ok, but I have a little Acer that bios is truly horrible for linux. I would hope its a rare exception. So far it seems to be. 

But again depends what you want to do with the laptop. ARe you just going to park it and use it as a substitute desktop workstation. Or are you going to lug it around where weight and how long it can go on a single battery charge becomes important. Possibly fastest processor for the money might not be the most important thing.

Oh and looking down the road. We are moving into an era where manufacturers are now putting security codes into batteries and power adapters so you have to buy OEM replacements from them, cant use same spec third party as it doesnt have the code. Sort of like what they did to inkjet printers. I read an interesting blog where some guy that knew what he was doing ran into this and came up with a work around. But it was far beyond what anybody but a true extreme techie would consider doing. He only did it cause it made him both angry and curios and he had pretty advanced skills.


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## Chris

Mac laptops are extremely expensive IMO. However, I usually get about 4-6 years out of them. I always max out the ram. I consider the average price 1200-1500, and divide that per year to justify it to my budget and I usually buy refurbished if possible. I consider it worthwhile investment. I usually pass the last one down to a family member that is just browsing the internet, or learning to program. 

I still have a 2011 27" iMac that is running strong.


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## Nevada

Chris said:


> I consider the average price 1200-1500, and divide that per year to justify it to my budget and I usually buy refurbished if possible. I consider it worthwhile investment. I usually pass the last one down to a family member that is just browsing the internet, or learning to program.


I suppose that's a fair was to justify the expense of a workstation. But I still buy used HP business-class laptops. About a year ago I decided to upgrade from a HP 6730b laptop with a Core 2 Duo T9500 processor to a HP 8560p laptop with a 2nd generation i7 processor. I found the laptop at eBay for $90 without hard drive, and transplanted the SSD from my old laptop. So if I hang on to this laptop for 5 years that will be $18/year ($1.50/month).

Like you, I passed my HP 6730b to a family member who needed a computer, so it's still in service and running the latest version of Windows 10 (64-bit). I added a SSD (160GB for $40), cleaned the heatsink, and replaced the CMOS battery. It should still last for years.

It pays to buy when a good opportunity presents itself rather than buy when you need it. It also pays to refurbish computers yourself.

I'm not sure why, but used laptop prices are kind of high right now. The used laptop market is extremely sensitive to price swings from supply & demand. In fact so sensitive that prices can double or be cut in half virtually overnight. For whatever reason, it looks like there's an increase in demand the past 2 months or so. I usually have an ongoing laptop refurbishing project, but I haven't bought a used laptop in 6 or 8 weeks. I'm laying in wait for better prices right now.


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## arabian knight

Chris said:


> Mac laptops are extremely expensive IMO. However, I usually get about 4-6 years out of them. I always max out the ram. I consider the average price 1200-1500, and divide that per year to justify it to my budget and I usually buy refurbished if possible. I consider it worthwhile investment. I usually pass the last one down to a family member that is just browsing the internet, or learning to program.
> 
> I still have a 2011 27" iMac that is running strong.


 Heck my early 2008 iMac is still running strong. LOL


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## Chris

Nevada said:


> I suppose that's a fair was to justify the expense of a workstation. But I still buy used HP business-class laptops. About a year ago I decided to upgrade from a HP 6730b laptop with a Core 2 Duo T9500 processor to a HP 8560p laptop with a 2nd generation i7 processor. I found the laptop at eBay for $90 without hard drive, and transplanted the SSD from my old laptop. So if I hang on to this laptop for 5 years that will be $18/year ($1.50/month).
> 
> Like you, I passed my HP 6730b to a family member who needed a computer, so it's still in service and running the latest version of Windows 10 (64-bit). I added a SSD (160GB for $40), cleaned the heatsink, and replaced the CMOS battery. It should still last for years.
> 
> It pays to buy when a good opportunity presents itself rather than buy when you need it. It also pays to refurbish computers yourself.
> 
> I'm not sure why, but used laptop prices are kind of high right now. The used laptop market is extremely sensitive to price swings from supply & demand. In fact so sensitive that prices can double or be cut in half virtually overnight. For whatever reason, it looks like there's an increase in demand the past 2 months or so. I usually have an ongoing laptop refurbishing project, but I haven't bought a used laptop in 6 or 8 weeks. I'm laying in wait for better prices right now.


That's awesome - The saver in me screams I should jump back to Windows, but I really like the Mac/iOS environment.
I saw your post about the HP laptops a few weeks back, and looked sadly I wasn't able to replicate quite as good of a deal as you did....so I held off from making that jump again. However, I'm continuing to look.


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## Nevada

Chris said:


> That's awesome - The saver in me screams I should jump back to Windows, but I really like the Mac/iOS environment.
> I saw your post about the HP laptops a few weeks back, and looked sadly I wasn't able to replicate quite as good of a deal as you did....so I held off from making that jump again. However, I'm continuing to look.


I don't know what's up with used laptop prices right now. As I said, I'm not buying right now because prices have been high the past 6 or 8 weeks. Maybe things will improve this summer when people have better things to do.


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## shea

You haven't mentioned what kind of maintenance you've done for this laptop! Dust is the number one killer of computers. Get 7 years of dust out of it reseat the ram, format and reinstall the OS. Don't spend over 100$ on this because you can get one 4 times faster for $200.


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## Gary in ohio

Nevada said:


> I don't know what's up with used laptop prices right now. As I said, I'm not buying right now because prices have been high the past 6 or 8 weeks. Maybe things will improve this summer when people have better things to do.


The problem with laptops now is needs are changing, The day of the High performance, high IO, large disk is gone in favor of lightweight more tablet like functions.


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## Nevada

Gary in ohio said:


> The problem with laptops now is needs are changing, The day of the High performance, high IO, large disk is gone in favor of lightweight more tablet like functions.


Yes, I see those for sale at Fry's Electronics. Atom processor, 2GB RAM, and a 32GB SSD. I don't know what I'd do with a machine like that. A lot of people even use their smartphones for Internet access. I suppose that's fine if all you do is a little email and Facebook.


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## HermitJohn

Nevada said:


> Yes, I see those for sale at Fry's Electronics. Atom processor, 2GB RAM, and a 32GB SSD. I don't know what I'd do with a machine like that. A lot of people even use their smartphones for Internet access. I suppose that's fine if all you do is a little email and Facebook.


Actually I have mentioned these machines many times now. I own two. I dont think they are worth what they are being sold for new, but then I dont think lot stuff is worth what its sold for new. 

I bought two of these, one Acer Aspire One Cloudbook 11 and one Lenovo 100s-11. Both came with win10, though the Lenovo install was completely fubar. I have approximately $30 each in them. Their big claim to fame is that they are VERY LIGHTWEIGHT and go all day on a battery charge. Meaning they would be great for a student carrying one around all day to classes.

The downside they are loaded up with carp as they come from the factory, both bloatware from manufacturer and bloatware/spyware built into win10. Both work fairly well with a fresh clean install of win10, necessary drivers added from the manufacturer website, then locking win10 down so its not phoning home and constantly updating its advertising strategies. Once win10 is locked down to only serving the laptop user, 2GB RAM is fine. 

The Lenovo works fairly well with linux as long as linux is run from usb drive. The eMMC drive soldered to the motherboard is not particularly linux friendly. The ACER bios simply hates linux. I can install linux to the eMMC, but in will only boot once out of several tries. Its become sort of an ongoing project to get the ACER to consistantly boot linux. Once booted, linux runs fine, even from the eMMC.

After de-bloating win10, adding Firefox along with choice extensions to minimizing advertising and website scripts, both the laptops run fairly well. The small screens and keyboards not greatest, but if you were using one as a substitute desktop workstation, you could plug in a desktop monitor, there is an HDMI port, and there are very inexpensive adapter cables so you can even use an older VGA monitor. And obviously you can plug in a full size keyboard/mouse. 

As to the 32GB eMMC, its small for win10 if used like it comes from factory. Win10 soon takes it all over and complains it cant update due to no room. If you do fresh install of win10 and strip the carp from win10 and lock it down so it cant update at will, it takes around 9GB and rest is for your use. Linux obviously takes less space depending on the distribution.

Now saying that, there is an end run. You can clone win10 install from the eMMC to an external usb SSD of any size you choose. Wipe the eMMC drive to storage only and it will boot win10 from the external drive. If you want to let win10 update and bloat up, at will, this is way to go. Win10 left to its own proclivity to bloat with every new update needs minimum 64GB drive space. A usb SSD is small and far superior to a thumb drive or flash card. I tried this and will say its a couple seconds slower than booting win10 from internal eMMC (I timed it), but you really wont notice the difference. We are still talking about win10 booting around 15seconds. Seriously you wont know difference. Course I also got rid of the win10 lockscreen that wastes bunch time. I am using older version win10, I think they prevented disabling of lockscreen in some update, cause they want to use it to show you ads.

I will also say there are now some of these mini laptops out there with 4GB RAM and 64GB eMMC. If you are shopping around, this is better way to go. Though its even better if you find one that has removable RAM so you can upgrade and a true internal SSD that can be replaced/upgraded. Also know there are some older netbooks with similar specs that will allow you to upgrade to 8GB RAM and they use a real SSD so you can upgrade that too. Processors nearly as fast as the ones in the current modern cloud books. Batteries that last almost as long.

Now if you dont need the very light weight and long battery life, the processing power of these are very similar to the earliest 2 core processor laptops that became available at the end of the XP era. If you are patient you can find one of these servicable for under $20 shipped. The current cloudbooks have become insanely popular, you will be hard pressed at this point to find one needing repair for under $40, $50 for one usable out of the box. This is not a good deal IMHO. I consider $30 tops I would give for one. But then I dont really need the extreme portability they offer. Will say the Lenovo makes me a really nice Kindle reader. $30 for a large screen Kindle reader, that can run windows software isnt that bad. I havent really found a use for the ACER except as project to figure how to get linux to reliably boot on it.... Cleaned up and locked down, it runs win10 just fine, but dont really need it for anything.

Also add, I had no problem running couple short youtube videos with firefox on the Lenevo. I assume if you have a fast unmetered connection, they would stream video of other types ok.


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## mrghostwalker

One of the great things about Linux (other than it's NOT Windows) is that it can breath new life into older, slower Windows machines and extend their lifespan. If the hardware is solid you can install a variety of Linux Distos and continue to use your laptop for browsing, writing, e-mail, photo editing, etc. As has been said, the drawback is that it will not run Windows programs. The good thing is that it's free. We haven't used Windows in my home for many, many, many years. I run LinuxMint on all our computers- including the Mac Air!


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## Yellowsnow

I seem to get 3 years out of cheap or expensive laptops. Desktop is going on 8 and still rocking.


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## HermitJohn

I was curious from Nevada's suggesting i5 and i7 laptops. I found a Dell Latitude E6330 with third generation i5, missing screen, hard drive, and dvdrom, battery, but had working motherboard, 4GB RAM, and all ports and keyboard work. Won it for $20.20 shipped. Got it yesterday. Plugged in desktop monitor and used power adapter I had from other laptop (can get new cheapie for $8) and lights flashed at me, nothing on the monitor. That will give you a sinking feeling... But reseated RAM stick and it booted to bios. Just running Slacko64 version of Puppy from thumbdrive (it didnt like 32bit I tried first despite being set to legacy bios). After adding usual extensions to Firefox (everybody wanting to track you and show you ads truly bottlenecks even fastest computer/connection down considerably), it flies compared to most of my older junk. Whats amazing is though it truly isnt that much bigger or heavier than the mini cloudbooks and gotta be best laptop keyboard I've ever used. People arent paying attention if they overlook one of these sold used/refurb and buy new plastic cloudbook. 

Oh these came originally with win7pro and still has the OEM sticker with number to activate it. And if you are really a masochist, can use the backdoor accessibility loophole M$ has left to upgrade to win10. Meh, I use win10 to run tax software once a year, and also left it on the Lenovo cloudbook to run Kindle app. Cant imagine anybody voluntarily choosing windows full time unless forced to. Slacko64 pretty nice.

One of these, complete minus hard drive and power adapter, goes for like $60. Somebody "refurbishes" it with used hard drive, cheap power adapter, and adds win10, they want twice that. Some stores still selling "factory refurbs" of these for over $300. Some of these have an i7 processor!!! Oh if you are looking, believe AMD A8 is close to the Intel i5 and AMD A10 close to the i7. I didnt seel much price difference between the Intel and AMD processor laptops of similar speed. 

But hey if you just want a desktop replacement and already have an old desktop vga monitor.... it does work fine in condition I bought mine. For longterm use, suggest SSD instead of a thumbdrive but whatever. You can get by using thumbdrive to boot operating system if thats what you have.

I was looking and good used screen is around $30 and new battery is $8, for this to make it functional as a laptop. I have other laptops, so doubt I will bother. $20 is a bargain to seriously upgrade from an old single core desktop pc, even if its by using a parts laptop with desktop monitor...


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## HermitJohn

I got to looking and interestingly a Dell Latitude 3330 and a Dell Latitude E6330 both use 13.3 inch screen with 40 pin connector, same resolution, same everything except part number. Used screen for the E6330 is $30 and up. Used screen for the 3330 starts at $14. Ok $14 is in my gambling range. Though the $14 ones had white line down middle of screen when turned on. I bought $16 one that other than having a surface scratch not supposed to have the white line. I got it today. It fits EXACTLY and displays correctly! For life of me cant find the scratch. Its tiny if it exists or possibly there are few dead pixels, but I didnt notice such. So now have a $36 laptop that would normally sell in similar condition for $50+. Just saying there are bargains out there.

Also got that $2 SSD to IDE adapter card (came on slow boat from China). I put a mSATA SSD with my backup copy of Puppy Linux onto the adapter card, and plugged it into the old HP Pavilion now upgraded to 2GB RAM. I was surprised, despite being IDE connection, think its still faster than connected via usb. Its as fast as my old P4 3.4Ghz single core desktop computer and comfortable to use. I still wouldnt go buy a single core computer unless for trivial amount money, but the right one still quite usable with a little work.


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## HermitJohn

I got to thinking how well SSD using mSATA to IDE conversion card on the HP Pavilion. So replaced the hard drive on the ancient Toughbook with it. Made quite a difference. Obviously faster than hard drive or booting live from cdrom or usb. I think with some tweaking it would almost make the old Toughbook usable on day to day basis without constant reminders you are using a very old and limited computer. Still one would have to be very determined and very destitute since you can buy a much newer and more powerful used computer pretty cheap. Putting money into an antique not really worth it.


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## Nevada

HermitJohn said:


> I got to thinking how well SSD using mSATA to IDE conversion card on the HP Pavilion. So replaced the hard drive on the ancient Toughbook with it. Made quite a difference. Obviously faster than hard drive or booting live from cdrom or usb. I think with some tweaking it would almost make the old Toughbook usable on day to day basis without constant reminders you are using a very old and limited computer. Still one would have to be very determined and very destitute since you can buy a much newer and more powerful used computer pretty cheap. Putting money into an antique not really worth it.


I'm totally sold on SSDs. I only use hard drives for large bulk storage.


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## HermitJohn

i got to thinking about the Toughbooks very limited RAm and frugal install of puppy runs mostly in RAM, so installed Xubuntu to different SSD. This is quite nice. Still occasional reminders I am using a laptop made in 2002. But this doesnt take the deep breath as much. Firefox running on Puppy all in RAM was really kinda pushing things with 1.25GB RAM. Honest just about any computer running modern browser needs 2GB RAM minimum. Yes you can maybe run some small linux systems yet with 512MB RAM, but its not going to be pleasant trying to use a browser or any other larger software. Good chance you will crash the system.


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## Chris

I finally found a Lenovo for $175 with free shipping from a reputable eBay guy
*Lenovo Thinkpad T440 Laptop Core i5 4300U 1.90Ghz 8GB 500GB Windows 10 Pro*

I liked the fact the OS was on an SSD, and then had the additional storage...not that I need the storage....but the ram, 14" screen...I think it's going to be a great laptop for my girlfriend.


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## Nevada

Chris said:


> I finally found a Lenovo for $175 with free shipping from a reputable eBay guy
> *Lenovo Thinkpad T440 Laptop Core i5 4300U 1.90Ghz 8GB 500GB Windows 10 Pro*
> 
> I liked the fact the OS was on an SSD, and then had the additional storage...not that I need the storage....but the ram, 14" screen...I think it's going to be a great laptop for my girlfriend.


Sure, a 4th generation i5, 8GB memory, and a SSD is a terrific laptop!

We don't really discuss Intel processor generation enough around here. People like to concentrate on whether the processor is an i3, i5 or i7 (now they make i9 processors), but above and beyond everything else is processor generation. That's because the improvements in generation can outweigh whether it's an i5 or i7. The fact is that your 4th generation i5 may very well outperform a 3rd generation i7.

You got a good buy on a great laptop.


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## HermitJohn

I dont suppose anybody really cares, but I did finally find a good linux option for that Acer Aspire One A01-131 cloudbook. Surprisingly there is currently a beta Puppy Linux "Slacko64" v.6.9.9.9 with option of linux kernel 4.9.30. 

I had to manually install it since this beta installer is bit uncooperative. But I have lot Puppy experience and Slacko is a traditional kind of Puppy so easy to do manual frugal install. Boots to desktop in 20 seconds from GRUB menu, and fully shuts down computer in 4 seconds. Reliable boot and no hiccups. Comes with Firefox 52 and LibreOffice. I added Iron Browser (clone of Chromium 59) and it ran well. Kpat solitare bundle and sudoko. Slacko runs amazingly well on this machine, best of any linux I've tried. I was bit surprised since older Slacko I tried couldnt deal with this particular newer Intel video chip, so would boot to backlit black screen unless you plugged in external monitor. But its also much older kernel. I think difference this time was the 4.9.30 kernel. Thats pretty cutting edge.


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