# Does Calf Manna make them grow?



## CadesLilFarm (Sep 23, 2013)

I read somewhere that Calf Manna has high proteins that increase growth. Has anyone found this true? I start seperating Gypsys babies at night tomorrow, so I will offer them grain if they seem interested. I want to grow them up to breed them early this year. Also, I feed beet pulp now, if I increase that for them, will the fibers in it help them grow better? These are Nigerian Dwarf goats


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## punchiepal (Oct 11, 2008)

We feed medicated Kent goat feed to our kids, also ND's, in amounts right for their current weights. 
Too much protein can be harmful.


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## CadesLilFarm (Sep 23, 2013)

punchiepal said:


> We feed medicated Kent goat feed to our kids, also ND's, in amounts right for their current weights.
> Too much protein can be harmful.



Its not gonna be much calfmanna. I dont know if im even gonna add it. I just wanted to know if it helped them grow. What about the beet pulp?????


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## dozedotz (Dec 12, 2012)

We have Nubians...never use calfmanna...they are usually born in Jan or Feb...by breeding time in Sept or Oct they are over 110 pounds - some heavier. They are ready to breed. I would think that your girls would be ready with just getting milk (we bottle feed as long as they will take it...up to 7 months), good hay, forage and some grain (we don't do grain for kids but lots of people do). As far as would they get even bigger with the calfmanna...sorry, can't say.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Calf Manna stinks. Ugh. Can't stand the stuff. 

Besides that, it's an unnecessary expense.


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## CadesLilFarm (Sep 23, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Calf Manna stinks. Ugh. Can't stand the stuff.
> 
> Besides that, it's an unnecessary expense.



Whats so unnecessary about it?


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## parrotman (Jan 27, 2008)

I don't know if you found this in your research? 

http://info.mannapro.com/mannaproan...Situations-When-Goats-Benefit-From-Calf-Manna

Granted, this is information from the manufacturer of the product and may be construed as biased manufacturer propaganda by some, nevertheless, the product is a supplemental food that has concentrated ingredients and possible benefits for your goats. Some choose to offer individual foods, such as flax, sunflower seed, oils, etc. which are in themselves, supplemental foods. What works for one may not work for another. The feeding practices from farm to farm differ from experience, desire and results.

Feeding your goats this product, and I have, is definitely not going to harm them in the least and may provide them with nutrients that your regular choice of diet, may not. I think you will definitely see growth whether or not you do decide to feed Calf Manna, but faster growth would have to determined by yourself once you see the results.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

I have to agree that there are less expensive ways to increase protein but I had tried it in the past and didnt notice enough to worry about buying it again unless its on super sale.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

OK. Here's my thinking. Feed your goats well, but save the money that some folks choose to pour into the feed pan thinking it gives the goats an extra edge, extra growth, extra something magical. WHY push the goats' systems to MAXIMIZE every little thing?

What's wrong with growing naturally?

Yes, I feed good hay, good oats, mineral, etc., but I don't understand the PUSH for bigger.

Just my dos pesos.


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## CadesLilFarm (Sep 23, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> OK. Here's my thinking. Feed your goats well, but save the money that some folks choose to pour into the feed pan thinking it gives the goats an extra edge, extra growth, extra something magical. WHY push the goats' systems to MAXIMIZE every little thing?
> 
> What's wrong with growing naturally?
> 
> ...



Listen. I am not trying to push them. We just have a few junior does that were behind on growth this year. I just didnt want them to be so small they cant breed.

If someone has found that this makes their kids grow better, PLEASE reply.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Ah. Understand. 

I just went back to read your original post. As you are separating them from the dams at night now, I'm assuming they are less than a month old. Is that correct?

Worms and coccidia can hinder growth. I'd keep an eye on worms with regular fecal counts, and I'd have them on coccidia prevention.

Beet pulp is mainly fed for carbohydrates. Are you feeding any alfalfa hay or pellets? That would provide good protein without over doing it.

From what I've read, Nigerian Dwarf goats are often held *longer* before breeding to give them adequate time to grow. 

I found a good discussion on this ND forum:
http://nigeriandwarfgoats.ning.com/forum/topics/age-for-first-breeding?xg_source=activity


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## CadesLilFarm (Sep 23, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Ah. Understand.
> 
> I just went back to read your original post. As you are separating them from the dams at night now, I'm assuming they are less than a month old. Is that correct?
> 
> ...



Yes. They are two weeks old, thats when we start seperating them. We have no access to alfalfa hay at the time, but we can get alfalfa pellets. They dont really like the pellets though. I might give them a little Calf Manna to see how things go. I will get like a ten pound bag of it and feed them a little at a time. Ob and a question. Should I give them free choice grain through the night? Or get them on a shedule? Oh and we treat them with Toltrazol ( I think thats how you spell it!) or Baycox at a young age. We had such terrible encounter with cocci last year, i am not taking anymore chances, so yes they will be treated for cocci.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I'd give them free choice at night. Of course, at this age, that may be 1/4 cup each. 

Most goats take a bit of time to accept alfalfa pellets. Just keep putting a bit of fresh ones out till they realize they are ok food.

I love Baycox!


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## CadesLilFarm (Sep 23, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I'd give them free choice at night. Of course, at this age, that may be 1/4 cup each.
> 
> Most goats take a bit of time to accept alfalfa pellets. Just keep putting a bit of fresh ones out till they realize they are ok food.
> 
> I love Baycox!



We use mainly toltrozol. Its a knock of brand of baycox. Same exact stuff in it. Works just as good and its cheaper. Ok free choice food for them then.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

LOL. I just was too lazy to type out tol....whatever..... and be sure of the spelling. That's what I use.


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## CadesLilFarm (Sep 23, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> LOL. I just was too lazy to type out tol....whatever..... and be sure of the spelling. That's what I use.



I am really not sure of the spelling either. Lol. 

I will let you know how the spoiled brats do in the stall tonight. Haha


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## punchiepal (Oct 11, 2008)

We have also sometimes found alfalfa only rabbit sized pellets. Those, when you can find them, are great sized for ND babies. However, the babes seem to go for the medicated Kent better and faster than even those. 
Nigerians are a breed that need to be carefully feed when given extra, other than alfalfa, feed. The breed is known to easily get fat. LOL No amount of feed will make a slow growing line grow faster, only time is needed there. We have a gal that produces slower growers, we just have to wait them out. Common first breedings usually occur no sooner than 45# AND 9 months old.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

There is nothing special about calf manna except for the price tag. 

Extra protein is just that - extra. Either burned as energy or urinated out as nitrogen in the urine. Both expensive ways to waste protein.  

A goats' diet should be forage based. At about 2 weeks of age, we begin creep feeding kids hay, grain (18% Ca: P balanced, pelleted sheep feed), free choice minerals, and baking soda. Kids are kept on milk for 3-4 months of age, bottle kids often longer if we have extra milk - just so we're not dumping it all to the chickens when we have excess.  You can wean sucessfully as young as 8 weeks, but creep feed or you'll get horrible growth. We continue creep feeding until we move the kids into the main pen (usually around 3-4 months of age) at which point we bring them into the milkroom during milking time so they can eat out of the feed pans during that time. 

The number one reason for slower growth is poor nutrition to support the growth you want. Second is coccidia. We do coccidia prevention here. Some lines grow/mature slower but I don't want them here, personally.  

Last year I tried the 'once and done' method of preventing coccidia with Baycox (Toltrazuril) - supposedly, you're supposed to be able to give it ONCE at 4 weeks of age, and not have to repeat it. Hah. Did NOT like the growth I got this year, but hey, that's what experiments are for.  They weren't runty stunty but they weren't as big as I'm used to. 

I had previously done (and will be doing again) coccidia prevention every 3-4 weeks until 'well grown'. Here, this is often about 50lbs live weight because then it gets too expensive. We will be using baycox (Toltrazuril) again.


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## trnubian (Mar 19, 2005)

I have tried using calf manna. It doesn't work as well as the MUCH cheaper Kent 20 lamb. That and my goats didn't like it. Beet pulp is used mostly for bulk and adding empty calories. It will actually lower your feed protein and fat. I use it to add weight to heavy milkers. Milk, Alfalfa and Kent 20 lamb is what grows kids fast here.

I DO push my kids for growth because we raise meat show weathers. That's the whole point. 
Our does kids grow fast and are able to compete better in the ring.


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## CadesLilFarm (Sep 23, 2013)

mygoat said:


> There is nothing special about calf manna except for the price tag.
> 
> Extra protein is just that - extra. Either burned as energy or urinated out as nitrogen in the urine. Both expensive ways to waste protein.
> 
> ...



Listen. Its impossible for my goats diet to be forage based. It just wont work for me. I dont have big enough pasture space for them, so I need something to supplement the growth. 

I bough a small bag of CalfManna anyway, so i am going to use it and see how things go.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Forage based can mean hay.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

CadesLilFarm said:


> Listen. Its impossible for my goats diet to be forage based. It just wont work for me. I dont have big enough pasture space for them, so I need something to supplement the growth.
> 
> I bough a small bag of CalfManna anyway, so i am going to use it and see how things go.


As said, forage doesn't always mean pasture. Our pastures don't support the goats all year either. We feed hay. Free choice hay round bales is how we feed the herd - 60.00 for a grass bale, here. Alfalfa pellets for lactating animals as they will also NEED a calcium source for lactation. Forage is anything that is 'roughage' - alfalfa, grass, silage, haylage, balage, beet pulp, etc. Goat (Ruminant) diet *has* to be forage based. They are ruminants. Anything else, and you are feeding them inappropriately and you will not have good results.


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## CadesLilFarm (Sep 23, 2013)

mygoat said:


> As said, forage doesn't always mean pasture. Our pastures don't support the goats all year either. We feed hay. Free choice hay round bales is how we feed the herd - 60.00 for a grass bale, here. Alfalfa pellets for lactating animals as they will also NEED a calcium source for lactation. Forage is anything that is 'roughage' - alfalfa, grass, silage, haylage, balage, beet pulp, etc. Goat (Ruminant) diet *has* to be forage based. They are ruminants. Anything else, and you are feeding them inappropriately and you will not have good results.



They do get alfalfa pellets daily. When they were in the smaller barn, they had really crappy hay. Now they have second cutting hay, very minimal stalks. Thwy love it much better than the trash they had in the other barn. Should I increase the alfalfa pellets I am giving them now? 

I do give beet pulp shreds as well. 

I mix my own feed. It has mostly whole grains. 

Well, going to the feed mill tomorrow to make my own mix. I currently give my milkers very little grain, but this is what i give them now. 

ADM 16% 

Arco or Standlee alfalfa pellets

BOSS

Shredded beet pulp.


I have my heart set on a whole grain mix though, 

Two parts whole oats
Two parts rolled barley
Two parts feed peas
One parts BOSS 
One part CalfManna as a supplement. 

Right now they get very minimal grain, mostly alfalfa pellets.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I mix my alfalfa pellets in my grain at 1 part alfalfa pellets to 2 parts grain. I pretty much free feed the does while they're in the milk room, because rationing takes too much time and they weren't eating it all anyways at every feeding. I used to feed 1lb grain for every 2-3 lbs milk produced. In the amount of time it took me to milk (I'm pretty fast) they weren't finishing. So, I extend the time they're in there a bit and just let 'em at it. Works for me. I will say that nigies tend to gain weight on air, so If their diet is largely hay and alfalfa pellets already, they should be fine.  

I feed the same mix to kids, but with the medicated sheep pellet I mentioned.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I have found calf manna a good feed, used mostly at transition time from milk to other feeds. I start 2 weeks before weaning off milk and for 2-4 weeks after. On calves I just take a small handful and put in their mouth, goats get a TBS maybe 2, then a small amount in feeder. After they get to eating other good feeds I wean them off calf manna. IF they seem a little "off" they get it longer. I don't mix with other feeds after they get older. I do think calf manna helps the little ones to get their stomachs going, when introducing other feeds from milk....James


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## LomahAcres (Jan 21, 2007)

Yes, calf manna can help them grow out better. It is the only pelleted feed I use. But never as a base - too much and it's not good for them (very high in soy), but a little can be beneficial. I give it as a top dressing to my growing kids and milking yearlings, no more then 1/4 - 1/2 cup a day a head. I don't grain my kids until after they are weaned off milk, but I have noticed the extra calf mana does give them a push to keep growing instead of a lull I was seeing after weaning. And also more growth noticed at the end of their second year.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Here are the ingredients of Calf Manna:Ingredients:
Soybean meal, corn, hominy feed, feeding oatmeal, dried whey, dehydrated alfalfa meal, linseed meal, brewer&#8217;s dried yeast, vegetable oil, fenugreek seed, anise oil, calcium carbonate, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, salt, sulfur, iron oxide, ferrous carbonate, ferrous sulfate, copper oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate, calcium iodate, Vitamin A supplement, Vitamin D3 supplement, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, thiamine mononitrate, niacin supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, biotin.


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## CadesLilFarm (Sep 23, 2013)

LomahAcres said:


> Yes, calf manna can help them grow out better. It is the only pelleted feed I use. But never as a base - too much and it's not good for them (very high in soy), but a little can be beneficial. I give it as a top dressing to my growing kids and milking yearlings, no more then 1/4 - 1/2 cup a day a head. I don't grain my kids until after they are weaned off milk, but I have noticed the extra calf mana does give them a push to keep growing instead of a lull I was seeing after weaning. And also more growth noticed at the end of their second year.



Yeah I am not going to give thwm much. Just kind of as a top dresser.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

just throwing this out there, I too tried the baycox as it was the next wonder drug and it almost cost me a whole kid crop. We use dimethox and marquies now with good success rates. 
Our goats have never had pasture to graze in they have round bales and the base of my feed is alfalfa, beet pulp and flax, its a complete horse feed we went to that when I grew tired of mixing potions and buying this that and the other. I do suppliment some with Amplify to give them an extra sparkle in the show ring but they are in fine shape without it.
I to would be looking at why they are not making better use of what they are already given.


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