# URGH! Census workers!



## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

I posted this here since I figure you guys are like minded and won't think I am totally crazy for being upset about this!

I made a point to fill out my census this year so that I DID NOT have to talk to a census worker. I filled out the info I wanted to give and sent it in. 

Lo and behold who showed up on my door step not 10 min. ago!? We started out with the fact that I had already mailed their form. He coped and attitude with me and said "Well obviously you didn't since that is why I am here!" :flame:

I told him how many people lived here and said I would prefer not to reveal the rest. After a lot of bickering back in forth he pretty much bullied me into giving our names, ages, and birthdays. I very much wanted to slam the door in his face, well it wouldn't slam much since I would only open it about 6 inches for him.  But I just couldn't bring myself to be rude to him.

I did put my foot down when it came to the kids. I would only give their names and nothing else. He got very upset. He RAISED HIS VOICE and told me that it was needed info and if I wanted there to be some $11 million dollar something or another for the local school then I had to give the info. I told him I really didn't care. He told me I would care since my kids would be going to our local school. I told him that wasn't my concern since they didn't go to that school (they are homeschooled but he didn't need to know all that). I don't have a problem supporting the local school. What I do have a problem with is some grumpy old man showing up on my door step and getting such an attitude with me. And YELLING AT ME!?!??!?! That is just crazy. 

I seriously thought about strapping on my pistol before I opened the door.......sure wish I would have. Maybe he would have thought twice!:smiley-laughing013:


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## Honey Berry (Oct 22, 2005)

The same thing happened with us the other day. We sent our form in weeks ago. A census worker came and said it was never received. I only answered the first question on the form before mailing it. Maybe they didn't like that it wasn't completely filled out, so they sent someone to get the rest of the answers?


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

Bill put off sending in the form; I told him I'd go sleep in the barn 4/1 so he could honestly say I don't live here. (I've fought the long form for 20 years and hate the Census Bureau.) 

A guy showed up last Saturday prepared to get the info. Bill surrendered his name and that we were 2 white folk; I was trying to get chicks outside for the 1st time with Bill's help so kept saying quite sternly "we don't have time for this nonsense". If the "worker" was observant, the Government knows the 2 are male and female--a nice guy and a not so nice gal. Not sure if Bill gave his age but he didn't volunteer mine. We've been counted as required by law. Done. Better be...


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## Stephen in SOKY (Jun 6, 2006)

A very nice young lady stopped here yesterday as well. First words out of her mouth were "I know you sent your census form in" and proceeded to begin asking me questions about two locked driveways nearby. I informed her my business ended at the state highway in front, and the middle of the river at the rear of my property and that beyond those I couldn't be of any service to her. She was very polite but then wanted my name & phone number, she left without them. I too only answered question one on the form.


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

I had a gentleman stop here today and all the information I gave him was that there were two people living here plus our names. He proceeded to ask the other questions about our age and I told him I wasn't going to answer that and then he asked if we had a morgage on our property and I told him that had nothing to do with a census count, he asked our phone number and I told him that I didn't give that out. He was very nice, I suppose he just didn't want to get into an argument with me.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

my wife worked for the cencus for 2 weks last year , they should have been trained properly like she seemed to have been as to what questions they were realy supposed to get answered and what they were just supposed to venture thier best guess on 

buy the way they have called her probably a dozen times since she quit asking her to work again for a while it was every week , whne she was in training they called to set up a date for her training i had to tell them she was at thier training right then and didn't need any more trips to the same training program , they have no idea what the left or right hand are doing let alone the right knowing what the left is doing the money is not bad but you know most people can't understand why you wouldn't want to answer any more questions than 2 people live here 

we only partialy filled out the form also , but promptly sent it back 


by the way the wife spent 2 hole days in the feild verifying addresses last year whe got to a rural area with several houses with sings to not open the gate , not tresspass and to ring the bell she called her supervisor and they said you need to go nock on the door she said the gate is thier door i an not invading someones space they clearly don't want anyone in there and i don't want to go there and quit.

by the way they take a gps reading of your front door thats why they want them standing at it taking the reading and saving it with your info.


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## hardworkingwoman (Jun 4, 2009)

I have a sign at my door that says..... If you weren't invited go away....
No body said that we had to open the door for anyone. I am not if they show up here. We filled out how many live here and that is it.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

You have valid reasons for not wanting to give much info to the census workers. Ask the Cherokee how they feel about the census. Ask the Japanese.

Some have asked "Why be afraid to give them the info? The government already knows those things about you." The information collected through other means is protected by privacy laws. The government likes to use the census to skirt those privacy laws. Your census information is not protected.

You should not let these people bully you. I'm guessing you're a woman. The census worker would have not had the courage to raise his voice to a man. Scumbags. I'm angry on your behalf.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

barnyardfun said:


> I posted this here since I figure you guys are like minded and won't think I am totally crazy for being upset about this!
> 
> I made a point to fill out my census this year so that I DID NOT have to talk to a census worker. I filled out the info I wanted to give and sent it in.
> 
> ...


Well it's your door, to do with as you wish.:bash:


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

We only sent in question #1 as well. I don't blame you for being annoyed.


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

Why would a census worker with GPS have come last year? My husband can't remember now if he asked any questions. How far is gov't intrusion going to get? Did anyone get one of those big questionnaires a year or so ago? It seems as though my family got hit with it all.


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## Farmerwilly2 (Oct 14, 2006)

I like the bit the now retired Gary Burbank used to do on his radio show. He'd call a random #, tell him he was from the U.S. Senseless Survey and commence to askin all sorts of silly questions. I suppose life does immitate art.


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## Sara in IN (Apr 2, 2003)

Found on another internet forum - of genealogists and the census gone bad:

Why, now, just have a nice little chat with the Census fellow that gives you a paper with his name or on his badge : " say are you related to the ______'s in ___________? Do you know Beth _______?" Babble on for several more sentences about the _________ you are related to, know, read about.

"You know you wouldn't believe how hard it is to read 1850 Census records. I counted five different spellings for my relations in Virginia, not counting West Virginia, which wasn't around yet." Spell each of them for the worker, then note those were on your maternal grandmothers line. 

"Genealogy is a fascinating hobby, you never know when you'll run into a reb, or a horse thief or wrong side of the blanket nobility, " and give examples in your research. Tell the worker about your great-grandma, her nicknames, her children's nicknames and how your family still uses those nicknames. Tell him how you are amazed that 6 out of 8 grandparents people all came from the same cluster of three little villages in ______ (obscure province name of no longer existing country), and how half of them married their first cousins, and each others first cousins, sometimes 3 times, after the first one died. 

The census worker needs to know that census records are a good start but explore the real human side of genealogy, passenger manifests, baptismal, military and death records are so important in explaining the rich history of your family, your ex-wife's family, your ex-father-in-laws's Confederate legacy, your girlfriend's family, your neighbor's family and the glorious history of the county that you live in, and which county it used to be before it was broken up. 

When the Census Worker asks for birthdays, make them do the math. "Pinky, well she was in 5th grade, oh, shoot, what was that teacher's name, when the Twin Towers fell, you know she had three different teachers that year and let's see, she was born when we had that ice storm, we almost didn't get to the hospital on the firetruckand Jaybug was born during that flood in 88, but he's in A-school and shipping out in three weeks from San Diego. Me? Umm, let me think, I was in high school when they landed on the moon, that was 70 or 71? was I a junior or senior? I got this awful headache, I don't do math well when the migraine is going. My cousin, Weedy and I have the same birthday, and two more of my cousins, Bud and J Edgar the next day and the next and my half sister, Lunie, too, but we never got to celebrate our own birthdays, cause we were all right at Christmas.(or tax time and mom did tax work, etc, etc.)"

The census worker is in a hurry and will use some of your narrative to fill in the forms.

Babbling Brooke>:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Or just yell back to the house: "This one's got purdy lips!"


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## rhome (Aug 10, 2006)

I've a close friend that's a census taker. He's working a very small town and some rural.
He said this week the crew leader wanted him to work harder getting info about you from your neighbors...if you refuse to answer any questions.

There's a "by proxy" info section on the form the census takers use.

My freind is a considerate person and respects other's privacy...he's having a tough time with this new info gathering agenda.

Be polite and tell them that this is the correct address, there are xxx people living here, you sent in the form and that's all you are going to give. 
This will help get them on their way....


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

I would have taken the broom or maybe a baseball bat to the OP's census taker... they better not show up here. I filled in the first question (number of people in household) and even hubby's and my name, and then mailed it in. They have NO right to anything else.


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## sandc (Apr 26, 2010)

I gave them all the information they asked for. I answered all questions promptly.


Now as to whether any of the information was correct is for them to figure out..


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

A poor guy showed up here (el stupido neighbor sent a strange man down here... Note to self: have a talk with neighbor guy) Friday morning... he was scared beanless... He'd taken every little dirt road around, getting lost in pastures, and woods, and finally lucked out and ended up down here. He was a'feared of getting out of his truck... The anatolians were foaming at the mouth, told the gent they hadn't been fed in about three days and thought he might be their supper... 

Overall, it was a painless process... other than having another human (that I don't know) knowing there's a house down here in the 'river bottoms'.


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

Ernie said:


> Or just yell back to the house: "This one's got purdy lips!"


:bouncy::bouncy::bouncy:


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## rhome (Aug 10, 2006)

More info about the census.
They are using very accurate maps of every habitable structure with GPS and sat. photos.
Also.. typical Fed Gov efficiency...he will be assigned only one side of a country road then assigned the other side next week....the problems happen when he finds himself knocking on doors twice...first to inquire about a neighbor then next week he has to ask the same folks for their info.
----..
Be patient folks, my friend is a hard working family guy here is SE Ohio and just trying to pay his bills.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

rhome said:


> Be patient folks, my friend is a hard working family guy here is SE Ohio and just trying to pay his bills.


Oh I understand that some people have to do it for a living. I am not saying there is anything wrong with a hard working person trying to make some money for their family. BUT if your friend shows up at someone's door and is as pushy as this man and RAISES his voice because he isn't getting the answers he wants well.......then I would say that person needs to find a new job. 

I am very upset at myself for wilting and giving him as much info as I did. Hubby is upset with me because I didn't get his name (I read his badge before I opened the door but for the life of me I can't remember his name!) because he knows exactly where the local census office is and would like to have a little 'chat' with someone. 

The whole ordeal upset me. I was scared, maybe more intimidated, by the whole thing. Kind of like he was a big mean grandpa and I had done something wrong.:teehee:


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## rhome (Aug 10, 2006)

About the rude and inconsiderate census takers.
While my friend went thru his 1 week of training, he mentioned the "BARNEYS" {Mayberry RFD} in his class, yeah you know that type of personality, they are suddenly EMPOWERED being a US Federal GovMit ENUMERATOR...census taker.

Good luck with those asshats.


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## Bonnie L (May 11, 2002)

rhome said:


> They are using very accurate maps of every habitable structure with GPS and sat. photos.


The map spotting - which I worked on last year - was next to worthless. Turned out there was a glitch in the system. The maps we have are NOT accurate, nor are they easy to read. They are simple line drawings with most, but not all, the roads. They do not show houses or any other structure. They are simple numbered dots which may or may not coincide with a building. Found out today that one map spot worker shirked his duty by map spotting mail boxes at the bottom of 1-2 mile long driveways. No way to know if anything is at the end of the driveway without going up. :hammer:



> Also.. typical Fed Gov efficiency...he will be assigned only one side of a country road then assigned the other side next week....the problems happen when he finds himself knocking on doors twice...first to inquire about a neighbor then next week he has to ask the same folks for their info.


And believe me, workers have been complaining about that! 

The reason for needing to follow up even after the first census form was sent in is because the Census Bureau is terribly inefficient. It seems that many have been either lost or misfiled. 

Another PR problem - that I just learned about today - is that if someone refuses to answer the questions, we can't let it go at that. We HAVE to contact the person at least 2 more times before we can give up. I'm not looking forward to another meeting with the lady who slammed the door in my face - after a few choice words. 



> Be patient folks, my friend is a hard working family guy here is SE Ohio and just trying to pay his bills.


Oh my yes. I'm trying to pay off the new tires on my Jeep. If it weren't for the many nice people I meet, this job wouldn't be worth doing. Thank God there are people who are friendly & polite, even if they don't agree with the government. :thumb:


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

The last census, we had some moron show up, I guess he thought he was Mr. Government Agent Man and proceeded to threaten me (from the interior of his pickup) if I didn't answer all his questions, saying there would be a, quote "whole lot of government people interested in my house and what I was doing here" (yes, I remember his exact words). 

I was doing some work on my shed, wiring up a light fixture and I had a pair of dh's Kleins in my hand. I told him if he didn't get his piece of expletive deleted truck out of my driveway I was going to cut the air stems on his tires and he'd have to call a tow truck. 

He left.

I am anticipating similar this year and am prepared. DH said I need to shut and lock the gate every morning when he leaves, but I haven't done it yet. We shall see...


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

rhome said:


> More info about the census.
> They are using very accurate maps of every habitable structure with GPS and sat. photos.


Not necessarily true... The gent who showed up did not have an accurate map of my place... and I'm not about to correct the erroneous information that's official, and unofficial info that can be found online. Google, Spokeo, and other search demons haven't broken my OPSEC features yet. It took the county tax assessor 13 years to find me (and he really didn't 'find' me when he 'found' me ).


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## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

I mailed ours in (answering only question 1, after checking alot of places as too the legalities of what to answer) I wanted to shred it and mail it back in its envelope. A guy showed up 2 days before they were advertised to start and wanted to ask all the questions..yada yada..told him I mailed it on the first even though I had gotten it way before then. He said I could not have recieved it that soon..yada..yada. And that they did not have it so I had to answer all the ?'s again. I told him I would tell him one thing. That 3 of us lived here and that was all they had a legal right to ask or have answered. He insisted on giving me a flyer with all the threats of fines etc. I took it and then he wanted to chat..I am sure he thought he could talk me into answering things that way..lol..not. I talked his ears off and gave him not 1 bit of info. I learned more about him,,(he tried the sympothy route like a waitress wanting tips) I loved it anad he was a nice person, but he best not come baack.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

If they are rude, or intimidating, then call and turn them in for inappropriate behavior, or tell them you will call if they don't leave immediately. I think they get fired if they get 2 or 3 reports. The phone # is probably in the phone book, or call information.


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## chickenslayer (Apr 20, 2010)

I mailed the form back only answering the number of people living here, but haven't gotten a visit yet. I was here when a woman came out doing the gps thing and she asked me how many residences were on the property, I told her it was none of her business and to have a nice day then hopped in the truck and left, if they come out to ask anymore questions I will be polite but they will not get any info from me, and God help them if they catch my wife home when they come


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Steel yourself for confrontation. Most people are inwardly afraid of conflict and some scumbags count on that in order to get their way. They expect everyone they meet to cave at the sound of a raised voice. If you're not the sort to handle it well, just shut the door in their face. 

I don't give a rat's furry behind how "nice" a person is, or whether or not they're just paying their bills. Once they exceed proper constitutional boundaries then they are participating in a criminal act and just as culpable as the folks who went out to the Branch Davidian compound to sell burritos and sodas to the ATF agents during the siege.

If you're a so-called "good person" trying to earn some extra money, then you'd best remember carefully where those boundaries are. It's one thing to work for the government within constitutional boundaries; I've done so myself. However when your actions begin to cross the line then it's time to either quit your job or consider yourself one of the bad guys. At that point you've lost the right to claim you're just a nice person who needs the work.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

We answered the first question and mailed it back. If someone comes here wanting more answers they will be told politely that they are trespassing and will be asked to leave. 

The government already invades every American citizens life way beyond what is constitutional. They already have more info on us than they should ever need, and It does not sit well that my hard earned tax money is funding this garbage.


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## Saffron (May 24, 2006)

Question - If a census worker comes to your home to "follow up" and becaomes threatening, hostile, or aggressive - can we not call the police out? I know the census workers are "above the law" for certain things, but why would they be on this type of thing?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I really can't imagine going up to some of the places arround here, as a stranger. Most people have many dogs, and very few folks are even in their house. They are in barns, out buildings or in the field. My Rotties are out with me, and if they are bored and tired out, probably hideing under a truck or the trailer, ready to scare the carp otta someone. If we are in the house, seriously, I have to peel them off the door. I awnsered the question and wrote on the census-Do not Bother me.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Saffron said:


> Question - If a census worker comes to your home to "follow up" and becaomes threatening, hostile, or aggressive - can we not call the police out? I know the census workers are "above the law" for certain things, but why would they be on this type of thing?


I don't know anything in which census workers are above the law.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

URGH! I am still so made at myself for giving in so easily. I am so proud of all of you that have the backbone to stand up for what you believe.:thumb: 

Like Ernie said I am one of those people that just can't stand confrontation. I should have just said 4 live here and shut the door! I guess I need to do more research on my rights for these kinds of things so I feel more confident standing up for myself. 

I should have known right from the start that he was trying to intimidate me. He started the conversations by asking a question that was worded differently (for the life of me I can't remember what the word was) but then he was like "Oh, sorry. To many years in the military will do that to you."

Like I said he was old enough to be my G'pa and just really made me feel like I was some degenerate kid.


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## Bonnie L (May 11, 2002)

No census worker is "above the law" in any way. The Constitution says that Congress has the duty to conduct a census every 10 years & gives them the authority to decide what questions will be asked on it. So ALL the questions are legal. You may consider them to be a violation of privacy. If so, you have 2 options. First, refuse (politely, please) to answer the questions that you think are too personal. The worker *has* to ask each question - refuse each one. It won't take long. If his crew leader says he has to go back for more info, just tell him you still refuse. He has to do that to keep his job.

The 2nd thing to do is contact your congress person. 

Funny thing on the race question. Another worker & I noticed that people who refuse to answer it or answer "American" (which is acceptable) are all white. Hispanics & Indians have no trouble with it, even tho we ask what tribe they are affiliated with.

For rude census workers: along with his name badge (which he had better be wearing) is a larger card with numbers on it. It will include his ID # & the phone number of the regional office. Do report him. We are not to threaten anyone in any way. His bosses will want to know. And believe me, we have a pretty good idea of who the potential problems are. But they can't be fired just on suspicions.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Carmen Renee said:


> Why would a census worker with GPS have come last year? My husband can't remember now if he asked any questions. How far is gov't intrusion going to get? Did anyone get one of those big questionnaires a year or so ago? It seems as though my family got hit with it all.


ADDRESS VERIFICATION , my wife was assigned to that team she did it for 2 days till they told her she had to tresspass where it was clear the owner did not want anyone past thier gate even had a box outside gate for ups and fedex 
she could see this was going to be somthing whe did not belive in doing so she quit.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

i preffer other for race


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

barnyardfun said:


> Like Ernie said I am one of those people that just can't stand confrontation. I should have just said 4 live here and shut the door! I guess I need to do more research on my rights for these kinds of things so I feel more confident standing up for myself.


And THAT is the reason why discussing such things in this forum is of benefit! We should try to steer clear of the "this is all (insert politician or political party)'s fault" type of discussion, but there can be great value in knowing what your rights are prior to certain types of confrontrations!

There are numerous law enforcement officers and ex-law enforcement officers who read this forum and who are of like mind with us. We also have good folks like Bonnie who have worked these jobs and are not afraid to speak up and tell us exactly where the boundaries are and how to seek redress if those boundaries are crossed.

Americans need to rely on GOOD PEOPLE in government jobs to not only help us out when we run into entanglements, but also to stand up and speak out against outrages perpetrated by the wolves in their organizations. 

Because you'd better believe that there are plenty of scumbags in government service who are just looking for a way to advance their own careers or satisfy their egos at YOUR expense. Preparedness needs to include knowing your rights under the law ahead of time, because an entanglement with the law can REALLY ruin you. Such an encounter would endanger your liberty, your financial reserves, and quite probably your personal property.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Thanks Bonnie for all the info. Sure wish I would have known all of that BEFORE yesterday. Oh well, lesson learned. 

Ernie, I would like to say that I admire you very much. I really appreciate your knowledge and great value your opinion. How much stuff you got stored in that head of yours?

I LOVE THIS FORUM! This is why I brought the thread here because I knew you guys wouldn't give me the lecture about how we need it for this and that. I knew you all would understand where I was coming from.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm way out on top of a mountain, in the middle of the sticks, hidden in a forest... I am also 7 months pregnant and DH is gone working most of the day...

I answer my door with Sig in hand.

Our home was not built when they were doing th GPS thing in the area... Does that mean that we have another 10 years until they try again... Or is this a constant thing they are doing?


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Wow Ernie, glad to know you really believe there are some good cops out there, I was beggining to wonder......happen to have raised one .
If the maps are that botched up what happens to the information provided, even if it is only the number of people in the house? I can only imagine, knowing how heavily the jobs have been advertised in this area, scares the bajeepers out of me knowing that Joe the 12 packer may be filling in info for me without ever even talking to me, maybe chatting with nosey crawl in the boob tube neighbor.....
I have to go get my copy of the Constitution out becasue I am under the thought that there is a limit as to what can be asked on the census forms, that is one of the main reasons for NOT answering most of the questions.
BYF, don't beat up on yourself too much. Go ahead and do a complaint. Maybe there are records of who did your area as long as you have a date and time. Take action and just learn as you seem to be doing. Afterall, that's life _.


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## Anabaptist (Mar 13, 2010)

Bonnie L said:


> No census worker is "above the law" in any way. The Constitution says that Congress has the duty to conduct a census every 10 years & gives them the authority to decide what questions will be asked on it. So ALL the questions are legal. You may consider them to be a violation of privacy. If so, you have 2 options. First, refuse (politely, please) to answer the questions that you think are too personal. The worker *has* to ask each question - refuse each one. It won't take long. If his crew leader says he has to go back for more info, just tell him you still refuse. He has to do that to keep his job.
> 
> The 2nd thing to do is contact your congress person.
> 
> ...


It is a violation of policy for an enumerator to allow anyone to see their ID number, but reporting a name will work. The crew leaders know who was assigned to that person's house anyway. It is common for enumerators to feel like they are federal agents and have authority, despite the fact that almost anyone can get the job. What does one do if a harassing, rude, or threatening enumerator refuses to give the phone number to the LCO? I say if it is threatening, call the police.


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## Anabaptist (Mar 13, 2010)

Honey Berry said:


> The same thing happened with us the other day. We sent our form in weeks ago. A census worker came and said it was never received. I only answered the first question on the form before mailing it. Maybe they didn't like that it wasn't completely filled out, so they sent someone to get the rest of the answers?


Census Day was April 1, 2010. All forms mailed after that day take a while to update in the system. An enumerator was sent out because a form was not processed before April 1. He or she has no way of knowing that you mailed your form and is doing their job.


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## sherry in Maine (Nov 22, 2007)

yeh the guy who came here was creepy too. He wanted to know if my house belonged to me, was paid for, etc etc. He inferred that 'homeless' people lived here (let him know that if they lived here they wouldn't be homeless)

wanted to know if kids were adopted or not, etc. Told him none of his business.

it disturbed me.


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## rhome (Aug 10, 2006)

About map accuracy....Good evening folks, just talked to my friend the census taker and he showed me a block map he uses.
The road names and location # is in a very small type.
Apparently map accuracy must be a regional problem, he said his maps were "spot on".
and of course more govt. waste...30 full legal size page maps, when he only needs 3 pages for his block.
Bonnie, thanks for helping folks understand and get the inside info. 
Good luck


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## Whisper (Jan 21, 2010)

Uhm, not meaning to be all rude or anything, but I'm here looking at Google Earth, a portion of "rural as heck" Idaho. It's VERY obvious where the roads are, where there's been clearcutting, where someone has crops planted, and where the buildings are. With the detail even the US Agriculture dept is providing them, you can even see the beaten-down trails where people walk from their house to their barn. 

My son's working for the Census this year. A lot of people get really offended and rude to him, acting like he's some kind of government spy. No, he's just a college kid who needs a part time job, and they're paying pretty good. He personally could give a hoot how many kids you have and if you're Asian/Hispanic/African/Minnesotan. There's just a box on the form he has to complete in order to get paid. If someone's being a jerk, sure, get their badge ID and report them. But don't act like the Census workers are suddenly working for the Evil Empire, please. I don't like the government interfering in my life any better than anyone else, but the information age has really changed the game. If you don't go completely underground and off the grid, living in some cave eating rabbits and pigweed, you're bound to show up on some internet information list somewhere. 

I really don't want someone siccin their dogs on my kid or shooting him just cause he needed a freakin job in this economy.


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## Gottabenutz (May 11, 2010)

Don't know if this will work in all locations. Told the census taker that I was "hired" to get the property ready for sale, and the "owner" had moved out of state last fall. All she got was my "pen-name" and address next door, then she left.


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## chickenslayer (Apr 20, 2010)

Gottabenutz said:


> Don't know if this will work in all locations. Told the census taker that I was "hired" to get the property ready for sale, and the "owner" had moved out of state last fall. All she got was my "pen-name" and address next door, then she left.



Why didn't I think of that


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

Could we have refused to allow the guy with the GPS to map our location?


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## Bonnie L (May 11, 2002)

Carmen Renee said:


> Could we have refused to allow the guy with the GPS to map our location?


Yes. But what's the point? The map info isn't going to any other government agency. It is only being used for the census. Around here, google maps would have been more accurate than what we ended up with. 

The workers (us) don't care if you lie or tell the truth. That's your look-out. We've been instructed to write down what we're told. 

In this area, we do not go over or around locked gates. A rope across the driveway or even a sawhorse with a "no trespassing" sign counts as a gate. 

Don't you wish you lived here? :grin:


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

I was visited by a worker a couple days ago..and remembering my sister is working for the census in another state I was "polite".

He was nice and he got most of the information he asked for (what I felt comfortable with or that which is available as public record); then he got what he DID NOT ask for. I told him I mailed my completed form on time so why was he here? He said this whole area was a royal mess. The previous person did not do their job right and he was out trying to unravel the mess. Well I told him as far as I could see it was a mess and a waste of money. I personally received by mail 2 notices prior to the mailing time of the forms, came home to find my form on my door and received at least one mailed notice to fill out and return the form..plus all the advertising by radio, tv,paper and bill boards. Then his visit. Huge waste of money!!! 
My sister tells me she has a woman that flat out refuses to answer any questions..period! My sister has to visit her 3 times before she can turn over this woman to her supervisor to visit and proceed up the food chain.

I have enjoyed reading how others have dealt with the census!


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## Saffron (May 24, 2006)

When I say "above the lasw" the main thing that comes to mind is the No Trespassing sign, which I have been told they can ignore - and they have.

RE - GPS, the woman who came on my property to do so - I told her to take it at the end of the driveway, not at my door. Fortunately my huge dog was outside and she would not get out of the car unless I held the dog - which I refused to do. But she refused to take the GPS at my driveway and took it sitting in her car in my parking area.

I came home yesterday to find a Census note tacked to my front door that they had visited to interview me and would return in the next day or two - or please call this number to set up an appointment. mmm-hmmm


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## fetch33 (Jan 15, 2010)

I answered question #1. I don't answer my front door unless I am expecting guests.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Answer the minimal amount of questions it takes to get them to go away, which is not very much. I told them how many people live in the house and the names of both adults. That was it. I refused to give the names of my children, my income, or my race.

When it comes to these sorts of things, I remember the biblical standard set by the Jewish midwives Shifrah and Puah. When commanded to kill the male children by Pharaoh, these two brave women did not do so and when confronted by the government on it they lied. They told the Pharaoh that the Jewish women were not like Egyptian women and "like the beasts in the field" would birth their young before the midwives arrived. Secretly Shifrah and Puah were helping to spirit the male children away so that the officials of the government would not find them. God rewarded Shifrah and Puah by including them in the line of David.


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

Bonnie L - Oh, I know there was no point to refuse, especially because of google maps and things like that, but it's the point that a government worker mapped my home. You are right about that. Probably good that I wasn't the one home. I wouldn't have been rude or anything like that but I probably would have been asking him a bunch of "why" questions and maybe some who, what and where questions as well. (When I don't understand the point behind something, I tend to ask a bunch of questions.)

I'm just getting very weary of all of the stuff going on. I know I have my foil hat on right now but it seems very handy to have all of this census stuff going on with what's happening in DC, even though the census would have happened regardless of who was in office. Conspiracy theorist ya know!


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

A friend of mine is a census taker this year down in southern (rural) Missouri. He has found out that some people who object to the census LOUDLY are happy campers when he tells them that after they answer his questions, he will give them the number to call so they can tell the "people in control" how they REALLY feel about the census.

And yeah, it's a job.

Mon


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## Bonnie L (May 11, 2002)

frogmammy said:


> He has found out that some people who object to the census LOUDLY are happy campers when he tells them that after they answer his questions, he will give them the number to call so they can tell the "people in control" how they REALLY feel about the census.


What a great idea! The people at the Spokane office are going to hate us. :boring:

Found out today they are letting us handle the refusals our way - which is not to continue bugging people. :benice:


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## stef (Sep 14, 2002)

I worked as a census taker ten years ago and was thankful for the work. 

I live in a primarily rural area and once ended up on a logging road. The underside of my car dragged along the rise on either side of the ruts left by the logging trucks. At that point I decided the better part of valor was to back out. 

I had two slight confrontations during the several weeks of working. 
One was a gentleman whose son had been killed in Vietanam and he wanted no part of the census. I did'nt push. I told him I was sorry for his loss, thanked him for his time and simply noted the house on the map.

The other incident took place way up on a mountain on a road marked "No Winter Maintainance". The man of the house was beligerant, not against me, but the government. 
Again, I politely thanked him for his time and left. 

As has been stated, the Constitution requires a census be taken. 
It's the law. 
And the Bible says, "A soft answer turneth away wrath."

If you don't want to answer the questions, don't. But don't get into a tizzy about it.

I applied again this year to work. The money would have helped out. But, maybe the Lord saw it was safer for me NOT to go this time around. 

stef


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

I looked up from the garden tonight and SO is talking to a census worker in the driveway. I walked over to see what was going on to see that SO had given the woman all of our names and our daughter's names and ages. I went nuts. I told the woman that I had mailed in the form with *only* the number of people in the house and it was returned before April 1st. She said that if that were true she wouldn't be there. She then handed me some piece of glossy sales propoganda about how the info in confidential and no one in the gov't had access to it for 75 years, yada yada. 

I took the paper from her and scribbled over the info SO had given her, then erased it to ensure it could not be read. 

I was hot as a match when she left. SO knows how I feel about the gov't and the census crap. I complied with the information they have a right to and refuse to give any more.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

paranoia and foolishness.
yeah be sure to ask the Cherokee and other tribes .
In many cases the tribe members of today owe their status to the census.
see 80-100 years ago it was pretty common for carpet baggers to Buy off the Native birth rights illegally. Thanks to the census records many of those stolen rights have been returned and passed on through the families
Never mind that its constitutionally legal.
providing false information is a felony but who cares the big bad gov is gonna get us 
of course if you really want to redflag yourself for further investigation by all means dont fill out the form dont answer the questions. I mean think about it if your looking to target someone to watch are you going to worry about the millions that answer the questions, of course not your going to look closely at the few thousand that refuse to.
But you were super coy and out smarted them government goons by refusing . Nope you just painted a bright red target on yourself and said audit me , check my purchases , dig up my back ground cause Im up to something . 
Theres a reason zebras have stripes its so when they re in a group the predators have a much harder time choosing a target. If you all were zebras you just traded your stripes for neon and stick out like a sore thumb . 
Bet you didnt even think about that did ya


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Well, Pyro, maybe some of us *did* think about it, and *chose* to answer only question #1 anyway. 

To some of us, freedom is more important than hiding in a crowd of 'zebras'.

IF you know what I mean.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

JuliaAnn said:


> Well, Pyro, maybe some of us *did* think about it, and *chose* to answer only question #1 anyway.
> 
> To some of us, freedom is more important than hiding in a crowd of 'zebras'.
> 
> IF you know what I mean.


the constitution protects our freedom it also allows for the census .
Know exactly what ya mean . you didnt want the government to have your names or kids names so you refused to answer the rest and made sure the government would look closer for the information .
BTW do you remember why Christ was born where he was ??? 
Joseph had to report for the Census 
See nothing new


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## stickinthemud (Sep 10, 2003)

BYF, you have plenty of reason to be upset. This story on our local news was ho-hum except for the reaction of the Census Bureau. They seemed way too nonchalant about security. 
http://www.wpxi.com/news/23560365/detail.html


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

PyroDon, if all your friends jumped off a cliff are you going to jump too? (I always hated that saying as a teenager!  ) I mean if all your friends decided to jump you certainly wouldn't want to be the only one left standing on the cliff because that would sure single you out. Something must be wrong with you if you didn't follow along with everyone else! You sure would send up a red flag if you were the only one left alive. 

Sorry, I guess that may have been a little too sarcastic. But my point is that a lot of people 'go against the grain' in a lot of different things for different reasons. Just because you wouldn't personally do it then it doesn't mean it is wrong for the next person.

No I personally don't like the census because I just feel like all of that is MY personal business. Yeah it is supposed to be "confidential" (for all that word is worth!) but I just don't believe that it is used only for what it is supposed to be. Or that it can't later on be used for something that could potentially affect my family in a bad way.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

PyroDon said:


> the constitution protects our freedom it also allows for the census .
> Know exactly what ya mean . you didnt want the government to have your names or kids names so you refused to answer the rest and made sure the government would look closer for the information .
> BTW do you remember why Christ was born where he was ???
> Joseph had to report for the Census
> See nothing new


Yeah, they have the right to COUNT us, nothing else... That is why we filled out question #1, but nothing beyond that.


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

I answered all the questions honestly and completely and mailed it in the day after I received it. I *will* have a problem if someone shows up claiming it never was received and in my mind accusing me of not complying. I did my part and what was legally required of me and my family. How much is too much when you do what was asked of you?
Question: With everyone here who had mailed the census back and got visits anyway, were they completely filled out? This is *not* critizism, just curious.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

yeah census records are used for such evil things as helping people trace their family tree , mapping western expansion, finding population density .
My mother worked there for over 30 years .
her main job was helping people find their realatives , confirm births and deaths .
Nope I wouldnt jump off a cliff unless the water was deep enough. but it seems many have gone off the deep end .
The thing is in the rush to prevent the government from having information instead many have chosen to believe falsely that they are keeping something from the gov. Get real if anyone want to know how much land you have or how many people live at your home its a simple task . If they want to know how many chickens are in your coup it can be done from a satilite image, county records . your only fooling yourselves , but dont worry no one really cares that your trying to hide .


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## Space Cowboy (Apr 26, 2008)

Everything Pyrodon has said is true. A FAR better method of keeping you private is to give the government WRONG information - every- time-!! Databases are compared against each other when compiling information. Data that does not match is usually ignored completely. Be careful though. You only want to do this on information that YOU don't care about. (Someday you may want accurate records on SOME things)

SC


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Get real if anyone want to know how much land you have or how many people live at your home its a simple task . If they want to know how many chickens are in your coup it can be done from a satilite image, county records


Then there's no need to answer their silly questions.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Then there's no need to answer their silly questions.


That was kind of my thought. If they have such all powerful and wonderful ways to find out the info anyway then why waste our time?

FWIW, I am not trying to hide. I have nothing to hide. I have done nothing wrong. I just don't like people poking their noses where I don't feel they belong.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Carmen Renee said:


> I answered all the questions honestly and completely and mailed it in the day after I received it. I *will* have a problem if someone shows up claiming it never was received and in my mind accusing me of not complying. I did my part and what was legally required of me and my family. How much is too much when you do what was asked of you?
> Question: With everyone here who had mailed the census back and got visits anyway, were they completely filled out? This is *not* critizism, just curious.


You know the funny thing? I mailed my census within days of the lady showing up here with the form. Told DH "You know I don't really want to do this but to save us the trouble later on I will fill out the form." I filled out THE WHOLE THING because I didn't know then what I HAD to fill out and I didn't want to cause any problems. THEN the mean guy shows up at my door and not only really upset me but got LESS info then what I put on the form!:doh:


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

Maybe they do it just so they can high lite those that dont want them to have the info for closer examination.


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## Bonnie L (May 11, 2002)

Carmen Renee said:


> I answered all the questions honestly and completely and mailed it in the day after I received it. I *will* have a problem if someone shows up claiming it never was received and in my mind accusing me of not complying.


I just found out there is a MAJOR problem with the address lists we are working from. Duplicate blocks of addresses were put in 2 or more Area Assignments. This also includes ones that were sent in. 

From what I've been reading here, it's not just our area having the problem. We've been instructed to do no more work until it's straightened out. 

We had wondered how they could lose so many - now I know they are just misfiled. Which doesn't make me feel a whole lot better. :viking:


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

PyroDon said:


> yeah census records are used for such evil things as helping people trace their family tree , mapping western expansion, finding population density .
> My mother worked there for over 30 years .
> her main job was helping people find their realatives , confirm births and deaths .
> Nope I wouldnt jump off a cliff unless the water was deep enough. but it seems many have gone off the deep end .
> The thing is in the rush to prevent the government from having information instead many have chosen to believe falsely that they are keeping something from the gov. Get real if anyone want to know how much land you have or how many people live at your home its a simple task . If they want to know how many chickens are in your coup it can be done from a satilite image, county records . your only fooling yourselves , but dont worry no one really cares that your trying to hide .


What is that? 50 years ago! It was done as I remember, just about the way it is today. It is done and has been done, every 10 Years.
Yes...It's about Counting the People in Our Country, examining the Populations Shifts, from one area of the Country or City to Another.

I Sent my Census Forms in each Time. And, if you do it Right.....
Dun....Dunnnn......You don't even have to talk to a Census Taker.

Not to be disrespectful....but. I guess I just do Not understand Why so many of the Folks on hereare so Paranoid about the process. As Pyrodon said, "It is information that is Already available to anyyone who wants to expend the time & effort to retrieve it. 
What is the big deal with it? Is it about "putting something over on the Government?" 
The Government is "Us", that's you & I. If your Form was sent in properly, all filled out, It got recorded the easy way, by someone at a computer desk.
And, you will not get a visit from a Census Taker. It saves Tax dollars that way.

But since a lot of folks did not fill their Forms out properly, answer all the questions and send it in........
Some poor guy, or lady has to be Payed more of our Tax Dollars to make one or 2 trips out to your house to get the Answers, Our Government needs, to make the Studies that are needed, concerning schools, hospitals, extension offices, Welfare, food stamps and other various Government programs. 

I figure I have helped save US, the tax-payers, just a little bit, a few dollars, maybe not much, by filling out my Census forms, the way I was asked.

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong...I don't have anything to hide. I think it's all out there anyway.YMMV.
Guess some of Y'all see it differently.........


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Don, this is really bothering you for some reason, isn't it? Or is it that you just like to get a rise out of people? Both seem to be self-evident in your replies. Some of us don't like the idea of hiding in with the zebras or sheeples, because we know that in round-ups, the zebras and sheeple herd very easily, while the maverick is harder to get to.

You've cited geneaology a couple of times, but if you have ever done much genealogical research, you know that the census is just a single tool in finding out about one's ancestors. There are many, MANY other resources for finding out about one's ancestors. 

A personal note about censuses in other countries and geneaology--- a part of my family came from a country in eastern Europe that has a very long, very bloody history of civil wars and wars with it's neighbors. This country started it's first census in 1859, I believe. Our family emigrated from that country to the U.S. in the late 1880's, bringing with them family photos, bibles with lists of marriages, deaths, births, as many old family bibles contain, and other documents. One of my siblings has worked on our family's geneaology for about 15 years now. There is a man in that country, a college professor, who makes extra money doing geneaology for people all over the world. His work is very expensive, but also extremely well documented. He advised my sibling that, over the decades, people had been 'purged' from all government records if they were political dissenters, and often simply disappeard in the night, either individuals or entire families, never to be seen or heard from again. Further, the government of that country destroyed all information regarding those persons--- no identification, no birth or death records, no marriage licenses, no land deeds, etc. etc., and NO CENSUS INFORMATION for those people. They did not even appear on a census! The corrupt government simply erased all history of these people's existence. My sibling had photos, names, places, and for many even written or spoken recordings of stories and anecdotes about these people (my great grandparents, grandparents and a few great uncles and aunts were able to recall and relate these stories to my sibling) but was not able to get one shred of evidence from the records of this corrupt country's government that they had actually ever existed. Had it not been for the family bibles, personal documents, photos, etc. they brought with them when the emigrated, most of that entire branch of our family would be lost to history.

So yeah, the census may be important, but it is certainly NOT the ONLY resource for documenting people's lives. And in the case of a corrupt government that cannot be trusted to tell the truth to it's citizens or to safeguard information about such, it can certainly be of benefit to that government to use in a negative, dangerous way.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Old John, I DID fill out the form in its entirety and mailed it in promptly! It is not my fault they can't get their stuff straight and sent out a hateful and disgruntled census taker to get my info AGAIN.

Wow! Did I ever open up a can of worms. My apologies. I certainly didn't mean to cause any problems or be labeled as trying to 'hide' from the government. Guess I will learn to keep my mouth shut one of these days........


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Barnyard fun, you don't have to keep your mouth shut, and you didn't open up a can of worms. People DO feel strongly about the census, for a variety of reasons, and it's ok to discuss and rant a little about them. It's good to learn that there are decent census workers out there just trying to do a good job and make some money. However, it is ALSO good to know about the ones who are jackasses. Had one myself last census around. So don't feel like you have anything to apologize for!

I personally don't want to participate in a census that is designed to redraw congressional districts to fit the agenda of an obviously corrupt administration. That is what is at the core of my issue with it. All the questions about 'how many people sleep at your house most of the time' and 'do you have a mortgage' and etc make it sound like we all operate flop houses. One of those 'well, I live here but I stay there' deals, which is guaranteed to skew the congressional districts. Sorry, I can't go along with that as we do not represent that kind of society.


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## rhome (Aug 10, 2006)

Old John. about saving a few US taxpayer bucks by mailing in the census questionaire,
I read an estimate to pay for training,maps,forms,mileage,hourly wage,and all the other govt number crunching regional office work it adds up to...
*48 BUCKS *for every house that requires a visit.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

rhome said:


> Old John. about saving a few US taxpayer bucks by mailing in the census questionaire,
> I read an estimate to pay for training,maps,forms,mileage,hourly wage,and all the other govt number crunching regional office work it adds up to...
> *48 BUCKS *for every house that requires a visit.


maybe those who refused should have that cost added to their tax bill for every visit that was required . why should the rest of us have to pay for their stubborness or laziness 


JuliaAnn
I just find it funny how some are so worried about the government wanting mundane information on those in a household that they refuse or throw a fit about giving names and birth dates or heaven forbid their race .
I guess if your paranoid and trying to stay off the grid giving no info would seem smart until of course you consider that by doing so you bring attention to yourself.
Refusing to answer questions or providing false information has always made it easier for LEOs to pick the criminals out of a crowd .
Its much easier and safer to hide in plain site if you feel the need to hide that is


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

PyroDon said:


> maybe those who refused should have that cost added to their tax bill for every visit that was required . why should the rest of us have to pay for their stubborness or laziness
> 
> 
> JuliaAnn
> ...


Who said that anyone was HIDING?

The constitution gives the government the right to COUNT us, nothing else. So, please excuse us for exercising our constitutional rights.


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## Jakk (Aug 14, 2008)

PyroDon said:


> maybe those who refused should have that cost added to their tax bill for every visit that was required . why should the rest of us have to pay for their stubborness or laziness
> 
> 
> JuliaAnn
> ...




Since when does refusing to answer questions make someone a criminal????


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

I filled in the legal requirement on the form and sent it off a while back. Had a census worker come here today. NOT to the front door, but to a side gate.

Told her we had already filled in a form, she said we needed to answer the questions again. Nope. Not happening. I've already wasted enough time on that nonsense so I politely asked her to leave. After some back and forth, she did.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

Jenni979 said:


> Who said that anyone was HIDING?
> 
> The constitution gives the government the right to COUNT us, nothing else. So, please excuse us for exercising our constitutional rights.


exactly what right were you exercising
self incrimination?? you have me curious now .
Id love to hear how asking your name and birth date violates your rights under the constitution 

"Sorry I dont have to tell you that Im white and have kids Im taking the 5th :stars:"

Cant wait to hear this


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

PyroDon said:


> exactly what right were you exercising
> self incrimination?? you have me curious now .
> Id love to hear how asking your name and birth date violates your rights under the constitution
> 
> ...


As far as the CENSUS goes, all the government has the right to do is COUNT us... What EXACTLY are you missing?

The CENSUS takers have no rights beyond that. They are NOT law enforcement so WHY would anyone have to answer anything that they ask??

How about 10 years from now they choose to start asking your sexual orientation, how many partners you have had, their names, and a list of any STDs you may have had? Would that be okay with you, too?

I think that it is highly suspect that you seem to think that just because we are not allowing the census workers to overstep certain boundaries, that MUST mean that we are all criminals and we MUST be hiding something.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

> =Jenni979;4437142]As far as the CENSUS goes, all the government has the right to do is COUNT us... What EXACTLY are you missing?
> 
> The CENSUS takers have no rights beyond that. They are NOT law enforcement so WHY would anyone have to answer anything that they ask??


The also have the right to ask birth dates ages and races and have had since the nation was founded 



> How about 10 years from now they choose to start asking your sexual orientation, how many partners you have had, their names, and a list of any STDs you may have had? Would that be okay with you, too?


How silly that would be the CDC not the census asking those questions and guess what the constitution says they can . The CDC can hold you as long as you carry a disease, ever heard of typhoid Mary. 



> I think that it is highly suspect that you seem to think that just because we are not allowing the census workers to overstep certain boundaries, that MUST mean that we are all criminals and we MUST be hiding something.


The census is not over stepping the bounds in any way shape or form.
the constitution protects that you be secure in your paper person and so forth it says absolutely nothing about privacy. 
One of the only privacy laws in effect was signed into law in the 1970s ,because the constitution has no such protections.
It says you can refuse to answer questions if those answers might incriminate you. It doesnt say you can refuse to answer simply because you dont want to. 

For the record I dont think anyone is hiding anything other than an understanding of what the census is taken for .


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

The Constitution quite explicitly dictates in Article 1, Section 2, as well as in the modification found in the 14th Amendment, that the purpose of the Census is to help apportion direct taxes and Representatives.

PLEASE tell me why the government needs to know anything more than the number of people in a home to ascertain these facts?

My ancestry, my marital history, my VA disability, my journey to work, my vehicles, my kitchen facilities, my rent amount, etc. has NOTHING to do with gathering the information needed to tell the government how many Representatives my community needs or the amount of taxes that will be appropriated to said community.

If you can show me ANYWHERE int he US Constitution where is says that, for the purposes of the Census, these questions are necessary, PLEASE DO.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

Ernie,

I adore you!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I talked to our local census info gatherer today. Nice gentleman actually. And FYI, he did not come to the house because our form was incompletely filled out. Nope. He needed info about the number of people living in the vacant houses (no mailboxes so I didn't get the mailings) and the camper. We had a good laugh about that but he was required to ask anyway. He also had to do some physical checking of a few houses that looked like they would be home to more people than was stated on the forms. I did give him my name and phone number because the census people had no other way in their records to contact me. I even asked if he needed info from ds's house, which was on his list. 

As for the legality, the only thing the census is for is an actual physical count of people. I do not believe in holding that info back. I prefer to not give any further info.


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## WanderingOak (Jul 12, 2004)

Well, Y'all are gonna hate me for this, but guess what I am doing for a living right now? That's right, I'm a Census worker. It was the first job offer that I had in more than a year, so I was more than happy to take it. The thing is, a few weeks after I started, I was offered a full-time gig. So right now, I doing both jobs part-time, just so I can see the Census through to the end.

One thing that I have discovered is that at least where I am, the Census is being run like a battalion of housecats. We have people running here, there, everywhere with almost no central coordination. I've had some people tell me that they have had at least a dozen Census workers in their neighborhood over the past few months. Most of the people that I have met doing this are quite friendly, although some do give me an anti-gooberment rant before they let me know what I asked for. Fortunately, I am just doing Quality Control interviews, which in most cases only involve question 1. In a lot of cases, I don't even ask that, since I'm just looking for a proxy for a vacation house, or looking for living quarters on the waters of all of the local bays and inlets. The last part is only a formality, but my supervisor insists that I do it. Whenever somebody asks me what I'm doing looking up and down the coast, I tell them that I'm looking for mermaids. 

We're definitely NOT supposed to raise our voices to anybody, and avoid crossing no-trespassing signs whenever possible. Making threats are definitely a no-no (call the local office if somebody does that), and we're trained to back off from direct confrontations. One thing that the local office is trying to do is ensure that we don't step on any toes or upset people overmuch. 

The Census is taking way longer than it should have, mainly due to computer glitches. A few weeks ago there was absolutely no work to be had, because the system kept crashing. Now, whenever I see my supervisor, he hands me a two inch thick stack of interviews, or a whole bookshelf full of maps to double-check. I'm actually making progress, but I can't wait for the census to be over with, just so I can get back on with my full time job, and quit pestering people. Still, If I wasn't doing the Census, somebody else would, and the next guy may not have any manners.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Ernie, you are such a sweet and wise soul!


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

WanderingOak,

I would NEVER hate you for working for the Census! 

It's a job, plain & simple.

My ONLY issue is with people saying that I MUST be hiding something because I won't answer certain questions on the Census, who then can't seem to give me any PROOF as to why I am obligated to answer said questions.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

PyroDon said:


> deleted the quote of a deleted post


Well, we are all still waiting to see your proof that the Census has the legal right to ask for anything other that how many of us there are...

Can you show us an article or section that proves your point? Or would you just like to continue to call names because you have no valid defense?


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

Carmen Renee said:


> Question: With everyone here who had mailed the census back and got visits anyway, were they completely filled out? This is *not* critizism, just curious.


I did not fill the form out completely. I listed the number of people in the house and mailed it back before April 1st. I have no interest in telling them how many people of hispanic origin were living here. :thumb: I will not hand them the information freely. Like PPs have said, let them work to find it.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Sorry that you had to babysit this conversation Angie. Sure didn't mean to stir up trouble but I have learned a lot. Like to keep my mouth shut!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Barnyardfun - no problem. There are just some strong personalities that clash. Nothing to do with you or this topic. Everything to do with opposing outlooks.
Don't worry about it, and keep posting.
Angie


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## Emmy D (Sep 7, 2009)

PrettyPaisley said:


> I did not fill the form out completely. I listed the number of people in the house and mailed it back before April 1st. I have no interest in telling them how many people of hispanic origin were living here. :thumb: I will not hand them the information freely. Like PPs have said, let them work to find it.


So you would rather have our government spend MORE money just because you don't want to answer a few simple questions...that is absurd!!

Emmy


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Wanderingoak,

Would you mind me asking what you are supposed to do if someone answers the door and tells you they have already filled in the form and sent it back on such and such date?

I did this, and the woman insisted I had to answer her questions again. I politely told her that no, I had wasted enough time on it and she needed to leave. She was NOT happy with me, and made that VERY clear. I had to ask her to leave, 'several' times.

I also did not like it that she parked her car in our driveway and came to a side gate, not the front door. That is invasion of my privacy, and unless you want to get bit by our dog, or zapped by the electric fence, or worse, it is not a good idea.

Not meaning to offend with my question, just would like to know.

I am sure there are some good census workers out there that know what the word 'NO' means! LOL


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

Jenni979 said:


> Well, we are all still waiting to see your proof that the Census has the legal right to ask for anything other that how many of us there are...


Article 1, section 2, US Constitution.
Article 1, section 8, US Constitution.
Title 13, U.S. Code
The Legal Tender Cases, Tex.1870; 12 Wall., U.S., 457, 536, 20 L.Ed. 287
United States v. Moriarity, 106 F. 886, 891 (S.D.N.Y.1901).
Morales v. Daley, 116 F. Supp. 2d 801, 820 (S.D. Tex. 2000).


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

What next? The census this year asks questions that are private and should remain so. Why they feel they need this information is beyond me. Other than how many people live at that address, why do they need the info? They already have more than you ever could imagine. 

It's a waste of OUR tax payers money if you ask me.

What next? What else would you be willing to tell them? WHY? Is it for the good of the people? I imagine not.

I respect those that are willing to give the government everything they want to know and then some, but also feel that they should respect those of us that feel that the government are butting into our lives too much already and are willing to stand up and say enough is enough.


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

Our Little Farm said:


> What next? The census this year asks questions that are private and should remain so.


Next? You should be asking what has gone before! Morales v. Daley lists all of the questions asked in 2000 - the court still said they did not violated anyone's privacy.

The 2010 Census asks fewer questions than almost every preceding census.


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

Emmy D said:


> So you would rather have our government spend MORE money just because you don't want to answer a few simple questions...that is absurd!!
> 
> Emmy


No, I would rather they keep busy with fact finding instead of handing it over to them with a song in my heart. 

And the attempt at the money-spending guilt falls on deaf ears. Take that sign and outside a public school full of children of illegals who are eating free lunches. *THAT* is a waste of money.


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## WanderingOak (Jul 12, 2004)

Our Little Farm said:


> Wanderingoak,
> Would you mind me asking what you are supposed to do if someone answers the door and tells you they have already filled in the form and sent it back on such and such date?
> 
> I did this, and the woman insisted I had to answer her questions again. I politely told her that no, I had wasted enough time on it and she needed to leave. She was NOT happy with me, and made that VERY clear. I had to ask her to leave, 'several' times.
> ...


Well, since I am doing Quality Control Re-Interviews, just about everybody that I have spoken with has told me that they have already filled out the Census. I just smile, say "Yes, thank you, that's why I'm here", and check a box on my clipboard. I then explain that I am doing a follow-up interview to assess the quality of the initial interview. In most cases, that is all I have to do. People are usually pleased when all I want is people's names, and contact information. I've had potential proxies tell me to 'get lost', but I've never had anybody that I am trying to interview flat-out refuse. 

I try to avoid blocking people's driveways, and the only time I use a side-entrance is when the front door is obviously not in use.

Regarding information such as race, if a person was Hispanic, Black or Asian, I would guess that they would WANT to be enumerated as such.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Mistletoad...LOL...you are right. 

I just don't see that it is necessary. Any of it. Count the people if need be, but the rest is a WASTE of tax payers money. :flame:

For those of you that do, well good for you, but please respect us that value our privacy and our freedom. Asking for


> people's names, and contact information


 is not what the constitution mandates.


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## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

WanderingOak said:


> Well, since I am doing Quality Control Re-Interviews, just about everybody that I have spoken with has told me that they have already filled out the Census. I just smile, say "Yes, thank you, that's why I'm here", and check a box on my clipboard. I then explain that I am doing a follow-up interview to assess the quality of the initial interview. In most cases, that is all I have to do. People are usually pleased when all I want is people's names, and contact information. I've had potential proxies tell me to 'get lost', but I've never had anybody that I am trying to interview flat-out refuse.
> 
> I try to avoid blocking people's driveways, and the only time I use a side-entrance is when the front door is obviously not in use.
> 
> Regarding information such as race, if a person was Hispanic, Black or Asian, I would guess that they would WANT to be enumerated as such.


 Well, the man who came here was willing to ask whoever answered the door all questions. He did not ask for my husband, whos name this property is in, nor did he ask if I was the homeowner(I'm not,yet). And I did tell him no to all names and contact info. My husband would not have answered any at all. I told him how many people lived here and that was IT. I am happy for anyone in this economy who wants to do this work, but that doesn't mean I am telling any joe blow coming to my door any info for any purpose. A pledge to keep things private isn't worth the ink it's writen in.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

> A pledge to keep things private isn't worth the ink it's writen in.


Agree. Did you read that thread about photocopiers? One held a hard drive from a law enforcement agency. Held details of sex offenders, everything.

Another held medical records. Complete medical records....left for anyone to view.

All 'private' of course.


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## Bruenor (Oct 2, 2008)

Article 1, Section 2, of the United States Constitution outlines the constitutional authority and reason for the census. 



> Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.


 _As modified by the 14 Amendment, section 2._

From the beginning of this section, we see the point of the census: Representation and Taxes.

*Representation*
Since we live in a political system where we do not vote directly for laws, but instead vote for representatives that, at least are supposed to, represent our interests, it is crucial that these representatives are apportioned to the People correctly. While that is not a problem in the Senate, since each state is limited to two senators, the 435 representatives in the House must be divided amongst the states according to population. Outside of the federal government, state and local governments need an accurate count of individuals for the same reason. 

*Taxes*
Along with representation, the census count is used to divide taxes collected at the federal level to the various states. The idea is that, with an accurate count of citizens, we can distribute the taxes in an "equal" and "fair" manner, thereby making sure that no one person is granted more or less taxes than another.

When looking at these two reasons, I begin to wonder about the specific questions that are being asked by the current census. Let's disregard the argument that some of these questions have been asked for XX many years. That is a false argument, and should carry no weight in rational thinking. The longevity of an idea, decision, action, or law has no bearing on if it is a correct, just, or even constitutionality of it. Instead, let's examine the questions on their own merit.

While I could address each of the questions, I wish to focus directly on questions 8 and 9 of the census. You can find the questions in their entirety by clicking on this link, so I'll just summarize by stating that these are the two questions that specifically deal with individuals race. 

If we accept the premises I outlined earlier, that the constitutional reason for the census is to apportion representatives and taxes, I question as to why questions of race need to be asked. If these are just "extra" questions that are being asked for reasons outside of the census, as it appears the government explanations of the questions imply in the link I applied above, then I would say that they do not have a place being in the census. If instead these questions are not extra, and that they are in fact being asked as a part of the entire census process, then we would have to conclude that the answers, and therefore what race an individual is, are being used to make decisions based on representation and taxes.

Why is this a problem, you might ask? The problem is that it completely negates the idea that all citizens of our country should be treated equally. Census records of race have been used for decades to gerrymander districts, thereby granting or restricting representation based on an individuals race. At the same time, we have federal laws that give grants and assistance based on the ethnicity of an individual, and specific tax money have been given to districts with a higher "minority" count.

Is this truly what the purpose of the census is for? Is it to be used to grant or deny a voice in Congress just because of who your ancestors are? Is it supposed to be used for government programs that give money based on the color of your skin? That is what it is being used for.

I'll divert for just a moment and say that all of these arguments can be used on another question, that of gender. If we have an aversion to the question of race based on the principles that I have stated, then we should have the same aversion to the question of gender.

So the question now becomes, should these questions be part of the census. Others have pointed out that the government is given the power to determine the questions that they ask on the census. Does that mean that any question that is on the census should be asked, and better yet, is constitutional? What if these questions were on the census?


What political party are you a member of?
What charities do you support or give money to?
What is your religion, and where is your place of worship?
Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party of the United States?

How many people who have encouraged the complete answering of the census would look at these questions and think that they are reasonable? If these questions appeared on a census, would the same people who call people "paranoid" for worrying about the current census answer these questions? After all, they are on the census, and the government has the power to determine the questions, right?

No. It is time to say enough. When government oversteps its bounds it is the time to raise the alarm. *We* are the People, not the collective bureaucracy in Washington.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

mistletoad said:


> Article 1, section 2, US Constitution.
> Article 1, section 8, US Constitution.
> Title 13, U.S. Code
> The Legal Tender Cases, Tex.1870; 12 Wall., U.S., 457, 536, 20 L.Ed. 287
> ...


Art 1, Sec 2:

_The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.

No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.

(Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.) (The previous sentence in parentheses was modified by the 14th Amendment, section 2.) The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five and Georgia three.

When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies.

The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment._

*AGAIN,the right to COUNT us, not ask any other questions...*

Art 1, Sec 8:

_The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof._

*Okay, WHERE does it say that the Census has a right to ask questionn in the above section? If you are talking about the "making laws" bit, to the best of my knowledge no such LAWhas been introduced declaring that the Census is now anything more than a tool used to appropriate taxs and the amount of reps needed.*

Title 13 of the US Code:

Too long to post, but you can find it here.

*Still waiting to see where the Census has a right to ask my ethnic origin or anything other than how many of us there are per household...* 

The rest (Re: court cases):

*These cases say that the Census may ask additional questions if they are "necessary and proper." How is it either necessary or proper to need to know the ethnic origins of the people who may be living in my home?*


How could it possibly matter, for the purposes of allocation of taxes & number of Reps, what color I am?


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

well the questions of race and gender have been asked since the very first Census , because black men were counted as 1/3 or 1/6 of a person and women of course didnt count at all .
now when you count your trees you dont count them all you count nut trees , fruit trees, onimentals , and hardwoods . then of course you'll also list them in orde of ages , those producing those not yet producing and those that are past producing.

Much outrage about imagined dangers


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

PyroDon said:


> well the questions of race and gender have been asked since the very first Census , because black men were counted as 1/3 or 1/6 of a person and women of course didnt count at all .
> now when you count your trees you dont count them all you count nut trees , fruit trees, onimentals , and hardwoods . then of course you'll also list them in orde of ages , those producing those not yet producing and those that are past producing.
> 
> Much outrage about imagined dangers


No one is stopping you from giving all the information you want to on any form presented to you. That is your right, your decision.

Not wanting to give all our info over to a questionable government that leaves more questions unanswered than answered is my right, my decision.


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

PyroDon said:


> well the questions of race and gender have been asked since the very first Census , because black men were counted as 1/3 or 1/6 of a person and women of course didnt count at all .


Well by all means ... if that is how it's *always* been done then let's not change it. I mean, since women still don't count ...


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

PrettyPaisley said:


> Well by all means ... if that is how it's *always* been done then let's not change it. I mean, since women still don't count ...


Just proves the point that those who wrote the constitution and founded this nation considered the question to be constitutional. One would think since they wrote it they would know what it meant . Im reasonably sure it was one of the founding fathers over saw the first census


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

So for everything else everyone wants to return to the Constitution, but not in the case of the census? Any other exceptions we should be aware of?


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

Are we going to start refering to the original US Constitution now? In that case, I VERY much doubt that anyone of this forum would even have been allowed to vote? Are there any white, free, non-Catholic males who own over 5k acres (free & clear)?

The founding fathers knew that times would change and allowed for there to be a way to make changes to the Constitution...

If you want to answer all your Census questions, then feel free. Why do you care if we don't want to answer? How does it even effect you?


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

The constitution manadates that a count is done every 10 years. Everything else? I think you should be able to decide to tell what you want and be able to be left alone and not harrassed by census workers at your own home, paid for by your own money.

I think sending out the forms should be enough. The rest is a waste of tax dollars, but some don't seem to mind the never ending spending that is ruining this country.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Jenni979 said:


> Are we going to start refering to the original US Constitution now? In that case, I VERY much doubt that anyone of this forum would even have been allowed to vote? Are there any white, free, non-Catholic males who own over 5k acres (free & clear)?
> 
> The founding fathers knew that times would change and allowed for there to be a way to make changes to the Constitution...
> 
> If you want to answer all your Census questions, then feel free. Why do you care if we don't want to answer? How does it even effect you?


Exactly, why do they care, and how do the answers affect them?


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

mistletoad said:


> So for everything else everyone wants to return to the Constitution, but not in the case of the census? Any other exceptions we should be aware of?


Im sure many would like to do away with the 14th amendment,
Its obvious many want a selective first amendment and be sure to replace all men with citizens only 
Thats just my best guess though


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

What a worthless cesspool of liberal thought and shameless promotion of government enslavement this thread has turned into.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Closing the thread as it's become very little to do with any thing survival, and more about political points of views.

This will not me moved to any other forum.


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