# To buy fewer wooded acres now, or wait?



## kotori (Nov 15, 2014)

I know this is a really individual thing, but I wanted to see what everyone's opinions on it are. I'm in a situation where I can probably get approved for 75-90k. I've never had land, but have always wanted some. When I was a wee lass, I wanted 120 acres, but it's dropped as I've grown. Still, for everything I want to do, I had decided on a minimum of 5 tillable acres, 5 acres of woods and twenty some acres of pasture. In my area of southern Ohio, not much tillable land comes up and it's usually 6-9k an acre when it does. wooded land is cheaper, but I'm not sure how I feel about clearing it for pasture. 

Having any land would be an improvement over my current situation, but I'm worried if I buy fewer acres now, or acres I need to put some hard work in, I'll just get resentful.

This is long and rambly, but I guess what I'm asking is has anyone regretted buying fewer/'worse quality' acres versus waiting?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

There are a lot of different angles to approach your post. I suppose one question would be what kind of equipment do you have for timber? Are you thinking of harvesting the trees for firewood/resale?


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

What are your end goals? Will you be working a full time job? Animals, livestock, crops? Or just land to hunt and relax on?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Almost every "country" neighbor I had, the ones who were among the first to settle there, as we moved into a new area in our younger years regretted not buying more land.
I don't always agree with that sentiment. They seemed to all feel if they had done so, they might have had a little more control over their area and a little more elbow room.
Of course they were kids and poor, not it wasn't likely feasible.


----------



## kotori (Nov 15, 2014)

gleepish said:


> What are your end goals? Will you be working a full time job? Animals, livestock, crops? Or just land to hunt and relax on?


For now I'd be working full time, so focusing more on livestock would be better, especially since i have no equipment to speak of. I have no experience with trees, so if there was harvest able timber I'd hire it out. I want to be mostly living off my own land, but I'd love to have some horses too. I learned how to drive them from the Amish so if I had enough acreage for a pair of working horses... End goal if I had 30+ acres was going to be two teams of draft horses, half a dozen sheep, half a dozen goats, maybe a cow or two if I could find one of the rare breed I like for sale.

Anything I do is going to have a learning curve, honestly. And I would be starting from literally nothing on behalf of most tools.

My biggest limitation as I see it is I won't get approval for anything over that amount unless I get a raise or switch jobs. I'm happy where I am, don't have enough experience to move up, but I'm studying for a certification. at most that'd be 2k more a year though, so not exactly life-changing.

I've actually never been hunting but I'm not against it. I do have a bow that could take down deer and a few different ways to bag squirrels. I don't think I would be happy with a solely hunting property though.

The more I think on it, the more it seems clear waiting has no downsides other than personal comfort... I could buy an acre or two as a temporary place, but I'd be worried about resale. even on that bit I could get a real nice big garden going and meat rabbits.. If I could bring myself to give up on the idea of horses I would be happier on much lower acreage but the heart wants what the heart wants..

ETA: Do you guys think it would be 'bad' to clear the land? Like I know its bad for the environment and other than that I'm hoping to be gentle on the land but part of me feels guilty about thinking of cutting down all those trees...


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Harvesting trees isn't bad when you consider removing the canopy exposes the ground to sunlight and allows new growth and other plants to thrive.


----------



## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

Maybe increase your tool inventory, skills and knowledge level while you wait so that when you do get land, you'll be better equipped to deal with it.


----------



## kotori (Nov 15, 2014)

anniew said:


> Maybe increase your tool inventory, skills and knowledge level while you wait so that when you do get land, you'll be better equipped to deal with it.


Can't get tools right now, no place to put them and the family is anything but supportive about it lol. Knowledge, I've been hoarding it as much as I can, but there is only so far reading and such will get me I know. Its very much going to be sink or swim for me I'm afraid.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

kotori said:


> For now I'd be working full time, so focusing more on livestock would be better, especially since i have no equipment to speak of. I have no experience with trees, so if there was harvest able timber I'd hire it out. I want to be mostly living off my own land, but I'd love to have some horses too. I learned how to drive them from the Amish so if I had enough acreage for a pair of working horses... End goal if I had 30+ acres was going to be two teams of draft horses, half a dozen sheep, half a dozen goats, maybe a cow or two if I could find one of the rare breed I like for sale.
> 
> Anything I do is going to have a learning curve, honestly. And I would be starting from literally nothing on behalf of most tools.
> 
> ...


I think that you have a clear idea of what you want--and that is fantastic! That's one of the things that many people don't have. Waiting doesn't have a downside, as long as you are comfortable where you are. 

I don't know what your skill set is (you said you learned how to drive horses, but do you know how to care for them), but I strongly warn against jumping in on livestock unless you know--really know--what you are getting into, or at least start very small if you do. It will be healthier for you and the animals in the long run.

Caring for a large garden along with livestock and horses while holding down a full time job, can be done but 'hard' does not begin to describe it. I'm not saying that it's not rewarding or fulfilling in any way, but working for 8 hours at your 'job' and then coming home and working another 8+ hours is stressful and any novelty of the situation wears off quickly. 

Since you will be working while doing this.. what property is available within driving distance of your employer? How long are you willing to commute? 

There are just so many variables that come into play. We can all throw out reasons why you should wait or why you shouldn't wait. Or buy big or buy small... So here is my suggestion: make a list of pro's and con's one for doing it now and one for waiting, and one for a smaller piece of land now, and see which has more weight. 

As for the trees, I really don't have much of an opinion. There are pros and cons on that one too!  That being said... I'm not sure I'd buy a parcel of forested land if what I really wanted was pasture land.


----------



## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

You MUST have a positive attitude to do all of what you want, not a "I can't do that now" attitude.
You could "help" someone else with their farm/homestead chores in exchange for the education you get. 
Or, take classes, either through a school, or through cooperative extension. 
Get to know neighbors that garden, have chickens or rabbits, and learn, learn, learn. 
Once you get land, you'll have to solve loads of problems, and the more you know, the better you'll be able to figure things out.


----------



## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

You MUST have a positive attitude to do all of what you want, not a "I can't do that now" attitude.
You could "help" someone else with their farm/homestead chores in exchange for the education you get. 
Or, take classes, either through a school, or through cooperative extension. 
Get to know neighbors that garden, have chickens or rabbits, and learn, learn, learn. 
Once you get land, you'll have to solve loads of problems, and the more you know, the better you'll be able to figure things out.


----------



## kotori (Nov 15, 2014)

gleepish said:


> I think that you have a clear idea of what you want--and that is fantastic! That's one of the things that many people don't have. Waiting doesn't have a downside, as long as you are comfortable where you are.
> 
> I don't know what your skill set is (you said you learned how to drive horses, but do you know *how to care for them*), but I strongly warn against jumping in on livestock unless you know--really know--what you are getting into, or at least start very small if you do. It will be healthier for you and the animals in the long run.
> 
> ...


I used to help care for a 30 stall boarding barn, so while I don't have that one on one of someone who actually owns a horse, I have an idea of the amount of work. put another way, one day of 30 horses doesn't equal 30 days of one horse, but it does give a good idea. My job is actually animal care so theres that, though land management is a new angle. I've gardened in the past, but only 32 square feet. supposedly 100 square feet can provide for all a persons needs, but I'm goign to divide it into four or more beds. if it's too much work I'll just drop a bed. I don't want to buy forested land either, but I can get almost 50 acres of it for the same price as 8ish tillable acres. Both plots near my work too. I didn't expect a straight answer but this has been tons of help, thanks!



anniew said:


> You MUST have a positive attitude to do all of what you want, not a "I can't do that now" attitude.
> You could "help" someone else with their farm/homestead chores in exchange for the education you get.
> Or, take classes, either through a school, or through cooperative extension.
> Get to know neighbors that garden, have chickens or rabbits, and learn, learn, learn.
> Once you get land, you'll have to solve loads of problems, and the more you know, the better you'll be able to figure things out.


I have a positive attitude, but I'm realistic. None of the landowners I've talked to could work with me -- it'd have to be weekends or weekdays after 4. It's also an insurance thing too I guess, several expressed concern over if I was to get injured and no amount of reassurance helped. One even suggested I pay him, which I might have to. I'll check for classes. No neighbors have chickens or rabbits. Chickens are actually illegal in our area due to one person who kept 20+ in her house. house got condemned and so did chickens... Even with the best of intentions, people tend to get suspicious of a stranger wanting to come on their land and most of my interactions have mirrored that. I suppose I could rent a storage container to accumulate tools, but that's money I could be putting towards getting the land. I suppose too I could quit my job and do an internship on someones land, but again, can't afford land with no job like that. you might call that a bad attitude, but I call it realism. You did bring up a good point though with the classes, so thank you for that.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

*Buy now !
The supply isn’t going to increase and it isnt going to get cheaper !
*Think Of buying now as a hedge ,so if you can afford 10 of the Acres that you want. 
If you buy it now you’re buying it at the current price and as it goes up in value it will stay equivalent but if you wait to buy that 10 acres with the money you accumulate between now and then it may just go into paying the additional price that property would be worth. 
For instance


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

10 acres in 1980 around here could be bought for $1000 an acre 10,000 bucks
But what if you had waited to buy that ground and saved $1000 a year for the next 20 years?
Well in the year 2000 that acre was worth $2500 an acre and those 10 acres would now cost you $25,000 out of the 30,000 total that you had saved meaning that 20 years of work would’ve only gained you 2 acres
But if you had bought those acres in 80 and saved that same $20,000 you could get and addition 8 acres. 
And that’s not even including any profit you might’ve made In the original 10 acres.

Yes I know I did not include interest in savings this was a theoretical construct to point out the possible value of hedging a piece of property by buying now.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I would keep an eye open for property in your price range, maybe a bit above. Try to find something that fits your want list as closely as possible. You may just run across your dream property without having to settle for less.

Although I still regret not looking at the really cheap horse ranch near Old Man's Cave. But hubby would have had a 2 hour commute instead of 10 minutes.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

A guy I used to know bought 7 acres south of us about 10 years ago. It was his wife and two daughters. He was retired military and in his early 40s. He didn't think it was as much land as he really wanted at the time, but it was a good deal, with an almost new modular 3 bed 2 bath house and a small barn.
It was almost all timber. In fact, you drove off the highway thru a path of trees to get to the house, which was surrounded by trees.
He had 6+ acres of it logged. The money he made off the timber he gave right back to the logging company to bring in a forestry mulcher and they ground up the stumps to below the soil. He then bought a dozen pigs and turned them loose. They put their snouts to work and pulled up old roots and lived off of acorns and forage. For two years he did container gardening and put up a small greenhouse. During that time he bought a tractor and a disc and a roto tiller and starting turning over the earth.
It took time and work and a lot of planning but he has a pretty well managed little farmstead now with flowers, vegetables, berries and a fruit tree orchard.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Sometimes the value of harvested timber will almost pay for the land, but you have to be ready to groom the land and plant grass.

I don't know what the market is like right now for standing timber.

I would not wait.


----------



## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Land is more expensive per acre for pieces smaller than 40 acres. The smaller the piece the more it costs per acre. The price per acre stabilizes for pieces 40 acres and up. A 5 acre piece costs almost as much as a 40. 

I believe you can never own too much land. I have heard people complain that they own too much land and can't take care of it. Do they think you have to mow all of it so it looks like a park? Just let the unused part go. No maintenance needed. Clear off some if and when you need it.

I'd wait for the 40.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> Sometimes the value of harvested timber will almost pay for the land, but you have to be ready to groom the land and plant grass.
> 
> I don't know what the market is like right now for standing timber.
> 
> I would not wait.


The market can currently be very good for timber. The few loggers I know are very busy this time of the year and prefer clearing timber when the visibility is good (winter).
Not all companies provide similar service and quality. Be sure you know what you are getting and getting paid for upfront, in writing.
That said, I sold and delivered a root grapple to a guy who had bought some raw land full of oaks and hickory trees.
He was approached by a young man with a bid to clear 12 acres. He landowner accepted. It came to be that the contractor's main experience was working for his grandfather 10 years earlier. He neglected to tell the owner that he had a day job and could only work evenings and weekends. He also didn't mention that he had no equipment and was renting all of the machinery. That meant when he damaged the equipment trailer and one of the skidders, he had to find another rental company.
After about 6 weeks the owner got his first check for the trees, $1200.00.
He fired the kid.
He is still waiting for a check for the other two loads.


----------



## kotori (Nov 15, 2014)

Well as it turns out, I'm not nearly as spoiled for choice as I thought I was...Looking at an hour drive maximum, most places are around 10 acres, with only a few going above. One property has fewer acreage than I was hoping for, but is only a forty minute drive from work, about double what it is now. If I was willing to drive an hour, I could get up to 40 acres, but while the time isn't too bad to me (considering how much time I waste), the idea of spending $$ in gas is less appealing, especially if I trade in my car for a truck. For now I'm just going to downsize my plans. Thanks for everyone's input =)


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Can you get a new job in a more rural area ?


----------



## TennHalfBack (Jul 11, 2015)

Not much has been said about the quality of the land - I've been looking for raw land here in East TN for some family members and basically all of the wooded land I found is wooded for a reason; no good for anything else. So look closely, most sellers know the value of their property. If it's cheap, there's a reason.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

TennHalfBack said:


> Not much has been said about the quality of the land - I've been looking for raw land here in East TN for some family members and basically all of the wooded land I found is wooded for a reason; no good for anything else. So look closely, most sellers know the value of their property. If it's cheap, there's a reason.


Lol, I'm guessing from your screen name you are either originally from the north and then left Florida to resettle or you used to play football.
I sold some tractor parts to a fellow over the summer who told me he bought 12 acres of timbered ground but it was on such a slope he figured he had about 2 acres he could walk on without having to hold onto a tree.


----------



## TennHalfBack (Jul 11, 2015)

GTX - Yeah, Northern Maine to Central FL, now in heaven except for the clay soil. My sister and husband ended up buying 10 acres, with about 2 acres you could access with a 4X4 tractor, the rest steeper and wooded with real trees. Nice view, can't see any neighbors. I did a lot of scouting for them and when I was talking to a realtor I would ask, "If we cut all of the trees, could we access the land with a 4x4 truck?" It is amazing what some peoples idea of "rolling" is.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

There was a hog farmer on here from your neck of the woods who doesn't seem to post anymore. I think he considered his land similar to Mt Rushmore with pigs on it. He was so desperate for a way to level a portion out out that the last I heard he was considering having trucks haul in broken concrete and old tires to fill in a ravine and then backfill over it with dirt.
I don't believe he had thought thru the volume of material he would need.


----------



## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

Have you looked at auctions? I don't know about Southern Ohio but in Central East Ohio, https://www.kikoauctions.com/ is active. You can find bargains at auctions if you pay attention. Our first parcel was 21 acres with a small cabin and a well. We got a good price because it was a "flag" parcel (not much frontage) and the auction wasn't well attended because there were other auctions in the area at the same time and day. We've since built up to 78 acres.


----------



## JosephSeiss (May 3, 2017)

Mike in Ohio said:


> Have you looked at auctions? I don't know about Southern Ohio but in Central East Ohio, https://www.kikoauctions.com/ is active. You can find bargains at auctions if you pay attention. Our first parcel was 21 acres with a small cabin and a well. We got a good price because it was a "flag" parcel (not much frontage) and the auction wasn't well attended because there were other auctions in the area at the same time and day. We've since built up to 78 acres.


Interesting. Mind if I ask how much that set you back and when you made the purchase?


----------



## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

JosephSeiss said:


> Interesting. Mind if I ask how much that set you back and when you made the purchase?


The original parcel was $58k in late 2002.


----------



## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

Mike in Ohio said:


> The original parcel was $58k in late 2002.


Just to point out though, the timber on it (mostly black walnut) was worth more than what we paid for the land (no, we didn't cut it).


----------



## JosephSeiss (May 3, 2017)

Mike in Ohio said:


> Just to point out though, the timber on it (mostly black walnut) was worth more than what we paid for the land (no, we didn't cut it).


Thanks!


----------

