# Best Place To Purchase Dried Beans? - Walmart Rant portion



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Because "cheapest" is king, Hintonlady. 

I'll go on my anti-Walmart rant now since I've been so nicely set up ...

When you shop at Walmart, you DESTROY your local community. That's right. You destroy it. Not they, the big evil corporation, but you. It is your dollars and your say. What you are saying is that you don't care if Joe the Butcher who lives in your neighborhood and sits beside you at your kid's soccer game actually makes a living. What you are saying is that the independent grocer, the owner of the small hardware store, or the local farmer who go to your church, attend the PTA meetings with you, and bring potato salad to the community Fourth of July picnic can all go BANKRUPT for what you care. You prefer CHEAP BEANS to a healthy, thriving local community.

"Oh, but I CAN'T AFFORD to shop anywhere but Walmart," always comes the response. Of course you can't. That's because all the jobs in your community pay what Walmart pays and all those local community dollars are now going to New York, Bentonville, or China instead of into your pocket. All because people like you have decided that CHEAP BEANS are more important than local jobs and businesses. 

This isn't about socialism. It's not about free market economies. It's about preserving local community so that libraries get built, roads get maintained, schools get staffed, and neighbors can earn a living wage.


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## Fryegirl (Sep 16, 2006)

I couldn't agree more. We got a Walmart last fall and the damage is already noticeable.

Won't highjack the thread but I'd jump in on another one, lol.


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## Teri (Jan 13, 2003)

Amen, Ernie!


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Ernie said:


> Because "cheapest" is king, Hintonlady.
> 
> I'll go on my anti-Walmart rant now since I've been so nicely set up ...
> 
> .......


Not to start a war or anything but immeadiately i thought of a ******* montage that i recently was emailed and the photo below sez it all for ******* women.....

Anyhow I have to agree with Ernie on this point, the great walmart of china is not the place to get the things that last a lifetime.

William


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## BAmaBubba (May 10, 2007)

Ernie, I'm right with you! Before WM, we had 3 mom-n-pop hardware stores, local grocers, fabric stores, etc. now, just WM. I HATE that place and only go when I don't have a choice


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## a1cowmilker (Jun 14, 2005)

Earnie, 
I am in total agreement. Thanks for the reminder that walmart truly does make every attempt to suck the life out of small towns.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Gotta jump in with another . .Thanks Ernie for the wallyfart disertation.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

This portion of the original thread is split off as it does not come close to answering the original question... but I did not want to delete it.

So, here's your place to let the world know (in reasonable language please) how much you don't like Walmart.

Angie


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Heh. We'd meander down every conversational rabbit hole without you to guide us, Angie.


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## QuiltingLady2 (Jan 3, 2007)

That's why our small town fought so hard to keep WM out. Yes, WM's are w/in a 20min drive, but we still have our small town groceries along with FMeyer and other stores. We'll fight again to keep it out.

As for beans, do you have a Cash and Carry in your area? If you are not familiar it's for small business buyers to purchase larges amounts of food products. Many of them will allow regular purchasers to buy if they pay with cash. No questions asked kind of thing. This is where we buy our spices, sack of potatoes, onions etc.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2008)

In post #4 of this thread there is an attached image. Why was that poster able to attach an image? :shrug:


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

ladycat said:


> In post #4 of this thread there is an attached image. Why was that poster able to attach an image? :shrug:



Cause he's smart enough to figure it out, 
I don't know.
Angie


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2008)

If anyone doesn't know why they should hate walmart, watch this documentary (it's almost 2 hours long)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9DAFAA9650CFA6BA[/ame]


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

The WalMart in my area got flooded out in early December and was closed for several weeks because of it. During that time, I got used to not going there and have been there only one time since. That visit was for my son to pick up the promise ring he had ordered and paid for two months before for his girlfriend and which had FINALLY come in. 

I didn't buy anything but I did use the restroom.

Since the flood, I've been trying even harder to patronize locally owned businesses (I always had but still went to WM on occasion), especially those businesses trying to recover from the disaster.

Janis


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## NJ Rich (Dec 14, 2005)

ERNIE, 

WM has driven several stores out of business in this area. The Mom and Pop and small business man can not compete and then they are gone. "I had to sell the store because I couldn't compete with WM". is a sad thing to here.

The news from the last two years tell us what type of business they are. Law suits and the government taking action isn't something an "Honorable Business" has happen to them.

I wish WM wasn't here in NJ.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

I've had numerous inquiries about buying eggs from my pastured poultry. Trouble is, they expect me to beat Walmart prices. I just cannot sell for less than WM, I actually need to charge more than WM! Same for meat birds. WM is competing against the small farmer as well as the other small businesses.


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## sparkysarah (Dec 4, 2007)

Are you going to start a Sam's Club rant page too? Or is that to be included here?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Same company - different branch - I think here is just fine.

Angie


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## sparkysarah (Dec 4, 2007)

Maybe this should be moved to General Chat as it has nothing to do with Survival and Emergency Preparedness. Which is the reason why I come here.


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## gran26 (Sep 17, 2007)

I have not been to a WM since 1999; we just realized at that time that we dont really need anything they sell. I do go to Fred's and Dollar General occasionally;
everything else I need is purchased from the local grocers, hardware store; etc. I think we have actually saved money as we always spent more at WM that we
intended to buy when we entered the store.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

It has EVERYTHING to do with survival and preparedness.

Part of the survival and preparedness mindset is making sure that your community, as well as you personally, can survive disasters. Can a community that is entirely based around and dependent upon a single large corporate enterprise survive any sort of disruption in the supply chain? Definitely not. That's why we need local stores which buy from local farmers and suppliers. It's part of the "preparing your environment" rule of survival. A thriving local community can better withstand the onslaughts against it, and Walmart undermines that local community.

The title of this split-off post is not deceptive. You know it's a Walmart rant and yet still chose to click on it. The moderator did right in splitting it off, as I am not likely to obey any rules regarding thread hijacking when something touches upon one of my numerous hot buttons. What I think you are trying to do, is argue some perceived rule of forum parliamentary procedure because you don't agree with the content of this message. I call you on that.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

it's staying...
and as long as people don't call each other names (deletions will happen then), or use bad, usually perceived, profanity....(deletions there also)...
Then, it applies, and started from a reasonable thread. This is just a separate thread drift.

Not all threads are to all people's liking or perceptions of what belong here.

Angie


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2008)

sparkysarah said:


> Maybe this should be moved to General Chat as it has nothing to do with Survival and Emergency Preparedness. Which is the reason why I come here.


I guess it belongs here because so many people are using wm and sam's to prep.


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## sparkysarah (Dec 4, 2007)

You're right about the forum procedure. I believe if this was in another forum it would have been moved.

We don't have any local mom and pop stores to even buy from here. It's Walmart or travel. It was that way before Walmart. It's all "corporate" here. I wish there was a CO-OP here. I would love to partake in that. Walmart was a great thing to come to this town. It did not.....did not put anyone out of business. Actually, I think the two grocery stores are thriving like crazy. I do shop sale items at those stores and it is crazy when I go in. The only store I have seen that has hurt other businesses in this town is Home Depot. I know it has hurt the business of the other hardware stores in town.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

AngieM2 said:


> Cause he's smart enough to figure it out,
> I don't know.
> Angie


Not necesarily smart, just tech oriented enough to be dangerous.



AngieM2 said:


> it's staying...
> and as long as people don't call each other names (deletions will happen then), or use bad, usually perceived, profanity....(deletions there also)...
> Then, it applies, and started from a reasonable thread. This is just a separate thread drift.


I actually thought my picture was on the edge of reasonable profane statements and might be deleted, even though its intent was to make people think of how the great wallmart of china is percieved in some parts of the several states and probably world.



AngieM2 said:


> Not all threads are to all people's liking or perceptions of what belong here.


I tend to agree and the hijacking of the original thread was in appropriate and the splitting of the thread was a proper decision. If a person does not like a thread title dont read it... kind of simple, and if they do read it, then dont like the content dont post to it, and they really dont like it they should do the right things and report the post, very easy very simple. However if the moderator does not see anything wrong with the content, dont rant about it, just dont read it anymore......

but human nature cant do that can they, people rant about the great wallmart of china and others who have never been have to go investigate what is so special about it, or evil and cant see what Ernie so smply pointed out, the big corporations take the profits from the community and deliver those profits to another part of the world and send back more "junk" or junk like products to have the people spend their funds on..... the closest chain stores are 70 miles from me, so i give the first chance for what i want to the local family owned stores, if they do not have what i want or cant order it in at a price that is favorable, then I might seek it out online, or add it to my list for the couple times i travel down the river to the bigger city to hunt it up.... "Buy Local" works as long as the merchants all buy local as well, but even they are sucked into the corporate world and go spend at the great wallmart of china once inawhile, I know cause ive seen them there [I sit in the parking lot and sell firewood at times, though it has been a couple years now since ive done that]. We dont have a local clothing store so maybe they were there to get inexpensive kids clothes... I like to buy my britches at the feed store..... but even those are getting hard to find that are not made overseas.

William


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## YoungOne (Aug 22, 2006)

To all the 'haters',

OK so most of you aren't realy haters just have realized that what WalMart sells your not interested in. WalMart isn't going anywere, as sad as that is, so why do we continue to hate it. I say "we" because I also hate the idea of losing all of the local color from small shops. 

I prefer to buy clothing that I think will last longer for a higher price just to save the inconvenience of buying more. I prefer to buy ammo and other sporting supplies from small shops because when I want that "special" item I know WalMart won't have it so I need local shops to be around. Furniture picked out of the thrift shop will last longer than most of anything WalMart sells. Most anything that is purchased at WalMart can be purchased elswere in higher quality to match that higher price tag.

This is were we split. I buy almost all our store bought groceries at WalMart. The answer is simple economics. With three kids and on a VERY tight budget I can buy all the groceries and another 15-20% to stock each month all within the budget. When I went out of my way not to shop at WalMart my family would go 15-20% over the budget just getting enough to survive. As our garden grows we hope to lower the food budget instead of shop local groceries. For those who can afford (tight or not) to shop local when price differences are so high I encourage and applaud them. Its just not in our cards to do the same. We support local farmers markets when there open for fresh fruits and vegtables but the basic supplies that come from the land or the store (our land ain't doing much right now) had better be cheap cheap cheap.

I jumped in because as much as I hate WalMart myself I will continue shopping there (for food) simply because wages have not even begun to keep up with food prices. I expect others share my opinion or grief at HAVING to shop at WalMart but that is simply how it is and in my case, I don't see it changing anytime real soon.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2008)

YoungOne said:


> To all the 'haters',
> I prefer to buy clothing that I think will last longer for a higher price just to save the inconvenience of buying more.


That's true about all sorts of things as far as quality goes. You can buy 2 seemingly identical items (same brand, model, etc) from walmart and a more "upscale" store, and the walmart one will wear out quicker. One example is, ink cartridges are cheaper at walmart, BUT only have half the amount of ink in them, so not a bargain.

Clothes are made with cheaper materials and fall apart while the "identical" item from Penney's or Sears will still be in great shape. The walmart version is made with cheaper elastic, etc.

Small kitchen appliances from walmart will break while the same brand/model from a more expensive store is still going strong, because the walmart version is made with cheaper innards.

We don't go into walmart very often, but do stock up on toilet paper there when we need it and it's not on sale somewhere else. It's WAY cheaper than the other stores and no worries about quality, as it's used once and thrown away.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2008)

Blu3duk said:


> Not necesarily smart, just tech oriented enough to be dangerous.


I'm tech oriented, too, so I thought I might know how you did it. So I tried and got this board message:

*ladycat, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system? 
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation. * 

Argh.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

YoungOne said:


> To all the 'haters',
> 
> OK so most of you aren't realy haters just have realized that what WalMart sells your not interested in. WalMart isn't going anywere, as sad as that is, so why do we continue to hate it. I say "we" because I also hate the idea of losing all of the local color from small shops.
> 
> ...


Dissent is not something only for when it's convenient or economical. Resistance against the dismantling of our local communities is not a game for only the affluent. It is everyone's responsibility to protect local merchants and to preserve their local community. 

This has nothing to do with prices. I know for a fact that Walmart can beat anyone's prices. That's the problem. 

What I'm trying to awaken you to is the concept that price isn't everything. You will pay a much larger price in the long run after Walmart has destroyed your local economy.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2008)

LOL @ the google ad on this page.











Ernie said:


> What I'm trying to awaken you to is the concept that price isn't everything. You will pay a much larger price in the long run after Walmart has destroyed your local economy.


I for one won't judge someone on a tight budget for buying groceries at Walmart when they're trying to keep children fed. There are actually people in this country (working poor) who have difficulty buying enough food. BTDT.


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## YoungOne (Aug 22, 2006)

Ernie said:


> Dissent is not something only for when it's convenient or economical......What I'm trying to awaken you to is the concept that price isn't everything.


I agree but there is a difference in support vs. need.

When I moved out of my parents house I swore my kids (whenever I had them) wouldn't go to bed hungry or wondering what there was for the next day, so far I have managed to keep that promise the last few months thanks to WalMart's low prices on food.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Ah. You're going to invoke the image of hungry children and the necessity for Walmart's low, low prices. That's a strategy in which you hope to gain the sympathies of the reader and thus achieve some measure of victory in the debate.

Here's an independent article  produced by Citizens for Responsible Growth. In it they took a shopping cart full of food and household items and compared prices between Walmart and local retailers. Guess what? _Walmart didn't win._ In many cases where Walmart did win, there was a six cent difference in their favor. Six cents.

So when you tuck those kids into bed at night, with their nice full bellies, make sure you let them know the following:

"Goodnight, Johnny. When you grow up, I'm sorry you can't own a hardware store, or a bookstore, or a record store, or become a butcher or a grocer. I'm sorry you can't be a farmer or a producer of items. My generation stole your dreams and your future to save six cents on beans. So study hard in school and maybe when you grow up you can work at Walmart stocking shelves."


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Ernie said:


> ....
> So when you tuck those kids into bed at night, with their nice full bellies, make sure you let them know the following:
> 
> "Goodnight, Johnny. When you grow up, I'm sorry you can't own a hardware store, or a bookstore, or a record store, or become a butcher or a grocer. I'm sorry you can't be a farmer or a producer of items. My generation stole your dreams and your future to save six cents on beans. So study hard in school and maybe when you grow up you can work at Walmart stocking shelves."



You forgot to add "stocking shelves for low pay and little or no benefits or insurance."


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## fretti (Jun 30, 2007)

YoungOne said:


> ... I buy almost all our store bought groceries at WalMart. The answer is simple economics. With three kids and on a VERY tight budget I can buy all the groceries and another 15-20% to stock each month all within the budget...


Since prepping is in my blood, I watch threads like this closely. Last summer, we passed by a Walmart so we stopped because I wanted to get some "cheap" groceries. We left after only buying 2 organic drinks. 

The prices at Walmart were NOT cheaper than my normal store for the things I purchase. I shop at Winco, an employee owned store found in Washington (W), Idaho (I), Nevada (N), California (C), and Oregon (O). 

I have also stopped into stores like Albertson's and Safeway. WOW! Their prices are staggering! The other grocery stores I patronize are Grocery Outlet (but I hate shopping there because it's a "red" corporation but that is better than Walmart) and Cash & Carry (part of Smart & Final chain http://www.smartandfinal.com/intro.aspx?ReturnUrl=/index.aspx).

In case you are wondering, even stores with cheap prices can offer good benefits to their employees IF they choose.


> Insurance Benefits
> An excellent Medical, Dental, and Vision plan covers full time and part time eligible employees. All employees, including management and executive employees, have the same medical, dental and vision plan.
> 
> Vacation
> ...


 http://www.wincofoods.com/benefits.htm


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

When we started preping, we were buying from wal-mart. We shopped about every 3 weeks, spending around $100 to feed 2 persons and our dogs.
Slowly we noticed that our grocery bill went up. This was right after Katrina. When it hit $150 for the same groceries and the meat started tasting bad, we started looking for a better place to shop. At the time I wasn't eating meat, so we only had 1 meat eater in the house.
We weren't getting ahead and filling our prep shelves like we wanted to from wal-mart.
We called around in SpoKane and found Cash and Carry and Northwest Bean. 
accually we started reading the PKG of the beans we were getting from the Azure Standard. We found Northwest Bean and Seed that way. My dh called and they said they would sell to the public, no problem.
They have 25 pound bags of Lentles, pearl barley, and split peas. No pintos though. This last summer the lentles were $6 a bag, but the last time I went they had gone up to $10.
I am hoping they go back down in price.

Any way check you bean bags for prices you may be able to go straight to the producer and get a better price.

We don't shop wal-mart any more, we couldn't afford to keep replacing every thing we bought there, over and over again.


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## YoungOne (Aug 22, 2006)

Glad to hear price difference is not so bad elsewere in the country. 

Evil Local
Milk 2.99 3.49
Flour 1.19 1.69
Sugar .69 .99
Pasta .89 .99 (buy that local anyways, better brand)

Just a few examples. When we lived in the city the price dif was so small it didn't even temp us. 


Ernie - I didn't try to invoke anything, that was cheap. What happens as a kid you don't forget as an adult.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Hard to beat WINCO.

They do have China food,read the labels.Their selection is very good so no problem to avoid China there.

And buying their bargain items is a super sale.Thats when you pick up cases.

Seems to me bulk pasta there is like 23 cents/pound? You dont have to buy a ton either,just what you want.

Ive been Walmart free for a few years now and it hasnt hurt me a bit.

And wally meat???? Would rather starve almost than eat that slop.

Wally does NOT beat Winco by any stretch.

Oh,Winco has lousy meat too,tough as leather!

Me? I will NOT support the RED CHINESE COMMUNIST DICTATORSHIP if I can in any way buy from another country.
I LOVE America,not Communist Dictatorships. :flame:


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## CJ (May 10, 2002)

Ernie, do you have a health food or bulk food store nearby? I love to buy beans and grains from ours back home, although I've not found one here in Russellville AR (unless I've just not found it yet?)

Walmart announced today they are cutting prices 10-30%... so much for the remaining mom and pop stores. :flame: 

And I agree, this is survival appropriate... small communities need to stay intact!


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## Milo (Apr 11, 2006)

My Two Cents. I work for an an employee owned grocery store and it seems to me if people would carefully plan meals and shop ads, there is no way Walmart can compete on price. We also have good quality meat cut in the store. My company has good benefits and an excellent retirement program. I think it is our duty to support and shop local stores. Later, Milo.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

CJ said:


> Walmart announced today they are cutting prices 10-30%... so much for the remaining mom and pop stores. :flame:


All I can say is show me the receipts that are item for item 10-30% off.

Reminds me when my Dad would pad prices by by 25% so he could give you a 20% discount if you bought today.

I'll believe that when i see it.

BooBoo<-----The 'SHOW ME' Dog. :gromit:


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## jd4020 (Feb 24, 2005)

Thanks Ernie.
I've been wm free for a couple of years now--wish I'd a seen it sooner.
You've just helped me to reinforce my committment to buy in my own small town.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Milo said:


> My Two Cents. I work for an an employee owned grocery store and it seems to me if people would carefully plan meals and shop ads, there is no way Walmart can compete on price. We also have good quality meat cut in the store. My company has good benefits and an excellent retirement program. I think it is our duty to support and shop local stores. Later, Milo.


 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2008)

Milo said:


> My Two Cents. I work for an an employee owned grocery store and it seems to me if people would carefully plan meals and shop ads, there is no way Walmart can compete on price.


Which is what I do. I can shop way cheaper than walmart, it just takes a little diligence.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

There's some local grocers I pick stuff up from, mostly specialty organic (which costs me more), but not really a bulk store. However I called the owner up and asked them to order me specific SKUs in bulk and she did. They rarely mind doing that. In fact, they love it. 

What I'm trying to do now is work out a deal with her where I can take in some extra produce of my own and trade it for goods I don't produce. Now that would be IDEAL. I just can't see working out a deal like that with Walmart.

YoungOne, I'm sorry if I offended you. Invoking "feelings" in forum debates is an old trick, and I like to call 'em on it when I see them. So if that's not a tactic you're using, then don't take it personally.


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## Fryegirl (Sep 16, 2006)

I don't think anyone is faulting a person for doing whatever they can to feed their family. I'll also say that I've seen some small town stores gouge customers because they were the only game in town and they could get away with it.

However....Walmart, imo, is a comedy of evils. Watch the film that was mentioned before. Some of the things that happed in the communites in the film are happening in my small town right now. Good luck fighting them. In many places, Walmart is a 'done deal' before you even hear about them coming - and someone local always profits.

As for me. I'd rather pay 1.59 for spray paint from a local 'mom and pop' than 1.29 from Walmart. In our area alone, we've seen the demise of a locally owned office supply store, drug store, sporting goods store, hardware store, Southern States. music store and gift shop. Friends and family members who were born, raised and worked here their whole lives are suddenly jobless.

Chances are, as I've also seen happen in other places, that big box will be empty one day. Then what do you have? I big empty warehouse that no one wants.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

In The Long Emergency, Kunstler mentioned WalMart several times because of the way it changes local economies. I don't remember if he came right out and said it, but it was pretty clear that he considers WalMart a BIG part of the problem(present and future). :baby04:

FourDeuce


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## Hillbillybob (Jul 30, 2007)

Fryegirl said:


> I don't think anyone is faulting a person for doing whatever they can to feed their family. I'll also say that I've seen some small town stores gouge customers because they were the only game in town and they could get away with it.
> 
> However....Walmart, imo, is a comedy of evils. Watch the film that was mentioned before. Some of the things that happed in the communites in the film are happening in my small town right now. Good luck fighting them. In many places, Walmart is a 'done deal' before you even hear about them coming - and someone local always profits.
> 
> ...


With no mom and pop stores left and all the money drained away from your community.

WalMart is only about one thing and that is profit for the top, not the employees who they lie to or your community.

I spend my money else where and even the spray paint is short on paint in the can so is really cost more.

Hillbillybob


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

ladycat said:


> Which is what I do. I can shop way cheaper than walmart, it just takes a little diligence.



Me, too. And now that I already have a well stocked pantry, I can be choosy enough to just buy stuff that's on sale or that I have coupons for.

I'd love to start a buyer's club here in North Georgia. I already have wholesale accounts with a couple of companies, but I'd need regular buyers to really start a small co-op.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2008)

Ernie said:


> There's some local grocers I pick stuff up from, mostly specialty organic (which costs me more), but not really a bulk store. However I called the owner up and asked them to order me specific SKUs in bulk and she did. They rarely mind doing that. In fact, they love it.


The store I shop bends over backwards for the customers, and they special order for me to get stuff I want that they don't carry. That's something walmart won't do.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2008)

Fryegirl said:


> I'll also say that I've seen some small town stores gouge customers because they were the only game in town and they could get away with it.


Those stores do exist!


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2008)

Fryegirl said:


> In our area alone, we've seen the demise of a locally owned office supply store, drug store, sporting goods store, hardware store, Southern States. music store and gift shop. Friends and family members who were born, raised and worked here their whole lives are suddenly jobless.
> 
> Chances are, as I've also seen happen in other places, that big box will be empty one day. Then what do you have? I big empty warehouse that no one wants.


I watched that happen in a small town in north Texas.

Walmart came to town (*small* town). All the little family owned mom and pop stores that had been in the same families for 2, 3, 4 generations couldn't compete and closed down. Everyone had to go to walmart to shop and work because it was all that was left.

But there wasn't enough business to support walmart so they ended up closing down. So then the town practically dried up. People either had to move to find a job, or they had to make a LONG commute every day.

I'm glad that the county seat in the county I'm in said *NO!* loud and clear to walmart when they tried to move in there. It's still a busy little town with a thriving downtown.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2008)

Hillbillybob said:


> > Originally Posted by Fryegirl
> > As for me. I'd rather pay 1.59 for spray paint from a local 'mom and pop' than 1.29 from Walmart.
> 
> 
> I spend my money else where and even the spray paint is short on paint in the can so is really cost more.


Exactly! The famous Walmart Deception.


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## FalconDance (Feb 4, 2007)

We have a local "mom and pop" grocery in our town of 329. The prices have always been high and usually only the older citizens (who can't go anywhere else) shop there for anything other than an occassional soda or gallon of milk.

Having said that, the current proprietor goes into town (a college town about 20 miles away which boasts 2 grocers, a Wal-Mart, and a few other big box stores) to China-Mart to stock the store's shelves!!! He used to deny it vehemently - said that his prices were so high because his 'contract' with a distributor only let him carry certain brands and he'd be fined if he carried less expensive alternatives. UNTIL several of us (myself included) caught him shopping at the bread outlet (which has since closed) for bread at 0.45/loaf and reselling for $2 and going to Wal-Mart for nearly everything else and then marking up the prices further.

Illegal? No. Unfriendly and not real bright, perhaps. Oddly enough, he's put the store up for sale - at a completely unreasonable price or this area, mind you - and can't understand why no one will buy him out. /sarcasm

This store hasn't fallen to China-mart. It has fallen to its owner's greed and non-business sense (he's really rude, too). 

So while I really can't stand Wal-Mart in general, you can't always say that it is the cause of the locals' demises. Sometimes it's just plain old stupidity that causes the locals to close up shop.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Had to go to wally to pick up some glasses......hated to do it, so cut me some slack. (going elsewhere would have cost me $20 in gas each way, order and then pick up)Decided to walk around because a warehouse is great for stretching the legs in freezing weather.


What I thought was odd is the fact that their television "system" posted a bra ad when I walked by without DH. Also put on some make up commercials.

When I was with DH all we saw was an ad with a dog. When I was with my DS one day we kept seeing family oriented ads. 

DS and I actually stood in the aisle for like 15 minutes transfixed. We were playing a prank, thought maybe people would stare at us and think we were nuts. It was a ploy to draw attention to how insane the television system is in there. My DS is a good sport about "sending messages" in silly ways with me.

Maybe I'm paranoid???


The thing I found most annoying was that the music in the grocery area was turned up mega loud. (I like loud music so am not easily offended)

The music also happend to be very hip hop ethnic in variety. (once again I like this sort of music)

Just seemed a bit odd to hear boomin bass while looking at stuff...........what's up with that?

I thought they liked to use benign stuff like muzac not something that makes me wanna shake my rump??


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2008)

hintonlady said:


> What I thought was odd is the fact that their television "system" posted a bra ad when I walked by without DH. Also put on some make up commercials.
> 
> When I was with DH all we saw was an ad with a dog. When I was with my DS one day we kept seeing family oriented ads.
> 
> ...


Not paranoid, just observant.

_The present invention provides a new method and system for using RFID tagged items carried on persons to identify and track the persons. The tracking information can be used to provide targeted advertising and to improve existing store systems and tracking systems. 

In one embodiment, previous purchase records of persons (e.g., customers) who shop at a store are collected by POS terminals and stored in a transaction database. When a person carrying or wearing items having RFID tags therein enters the store or other designated area, a RFID tag scanner located therein scans the RFID tags on that person and reads the RFID tag information. The RFID tag information collected from the person is correlated with transaction records stored in the transaction database to determine the exact identity of the person, or some characteristic about the person. Then, as that person moves around the store, different RFID tag scanners located throughout the store can pick up radio signals from the RFID tags carried on that person and the movement of that person is tracked based on these detections. 

In another embodiment, without having any prior records of individuals and their purchase records, a person carrying RFID-tagged items can be scanned to identify a collection of items that the person is carrying. The present invention assigns a tracking number to that person based on the collected RFID tag information, and the tracking number is used to track the person's movement. In this embodiment, the exact identity (i.e., name, address, etc.) is not determined, but the person is still tracked based on their association with the collected RFID tag information. 

In these embodiments, the tracking information can be used to provide targeted advertising to the person as the person roams through the store, or to analyze and improve existing store systems, such as the physical layout of the store, advertisement displays in the store, customer service systems in the store, lighting and other environmental settings in the store system, etc. _ 

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7076441-description.html

In case anyone doesn't believe this is happening, I can only provide my word for it. But I read about this in the trade journals and I beleive it was in Popular Science, too, a couple of years ago. The technology was invented, and being implemented at that time. 

Stores were getting ready to set the system up so that as a shopper moves through the store, the ads they see will be targeted towards them based on the rfid chips they are unknowlingly wearing/carrying in their past purchases.

I don't know yet how wide spread the practice is.


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## sparkysarah (Dec 4, 2007)

They just installed in the frozen section motion control lights in the cases to save energy. I find it humerous. Of course you can't help but notice as you're walking down the aisle the light pops on and you look.....and maybe buy. I think that is all about marketing and nothing to do with saving energy.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

I am usually oblivious to things that others find painfully obvious.

Then on the other hand I am very skilled at seeing patterns, events that others fail to see for months from a lack of "looking". (concern or interest?)

Glad to know I'm not a total freak. Thing is though, I gave up on trying to say "no really, can't you see that"?

Now I just say a lot of "told you so, next time you should listen"

The response I usually get; "I know, I know"

 

p.s. very creepy in a Farenheit 451 kinda way........




ladycat said:


> Not paranoid, just observant.
> 
> _The present invention provides a new method and system for using RFID tagged items carried on persons to identify and track the persons. The tracking information can be used to provide targeted advertising and to improve existing store systems and tracking systems.
> 
> ...


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

When the local Walmart store moved to Carthage, there were fears that mom and pop shops would be put out of business. I've been thinking for a while now, and for the life of me, I can't think of a single business that went away. We did lose a cut rate grocery store... I shopped there infrequently, for all they had was there own store brand products... only folks I ever saw in there were the same folks who frequent Dollar Stores. We do have three new dollar type stores, Since, wally moved in. Our hardware stores flourish (I visit the store weekly). I still would rather give my business to locals.... but.... BUT>>>>

If I need flour, beans, salt, sugar, and spice.... I can go to two different grocers.

If I need bullets, I can go to three different ammo stores.

If I need tires, oil, antifreeze, chainsaw (2 cyle oil) oil, I can go to half a dozen (4 of which are NEW, post Wally) auto parts store.

If I need writing supplies... at least four stores (1 post wally)...

Underwear and socks... dozens of stores...

Worms...2 stores...

Drugs... half a dozen stores

Glasses... two prescription places, lots of el cheapo readers...

Gardening supplies... 1 store...

Sewing machines .........NONE.......

But I can go to Wallys and get all of this, at one place, at the same time.


Let me give you this scenario... You're on your way home from work, and you weren't listening to the radio all day, and you find out the shtf... and you can make only ONE STOP... at that stop, you can Get As Much As You Want... (these are the rules, one stop!!!) 
Where are you going to go?

Me, I'd probably go to my hardware store, as I should be golden on everything Wally has... But then again, I'd still probably go to Wallys and grab stuff I usually don't stock.

I guess I'm one of those mean people that don't believe that businesses should be in the welfare business... You work for what the man offers, if you want a better position, either advance your skillset and get it, or leave and go elsewhere.

And one last word... some folks say mom and pops can't compete... My view is, yes competition killed them... for they were overpriced in the first place. Our local town has lost half a dozen grocery stores.... all of them were in the same place... the rent was so high, they had to keep prices higher to pay the bills... folks would not pay ten cents more for milk when they could go to another store and save ten cents. This was before Wally. Wally's milk is ten cents cheaper than the two current grocery stores, but they (grocers) still sell jillions of gallons of milk, because they have bakeries, fresh fruit, variety that wally doesn't have.

Some folks simply can't compete. If you're the only store for miles around, you don't have to... Someone, anyone, comes along and puts some pressure on them, they fold.

Would you shop at Peoplemart (where we pay our employees megabucks, and wipe their hineys from cradle to grave...) where we promise the prices will always be higher than anyone else around...Usually several times!!! Why? Cause we send all of our employees children to Medical and Law School? O btw, we're probably selling the same Chinesecrapola as that other 'mart sells.

Or Americamart... where that 25" tv is gonna run you 7x what a comparable model from Korea costs? Blue jeans are 4x... Everything is gonna be at least 4 x what you can get it from elsewhere.

Sorry, that's my rant...

I still get crazy sometimes and buy American... Carrharts for example. Guns sometimes. I think the reason American Business failed, is because I purchase o so little of anything. If the world economy depended on me, it'd crash overnight. I buy hardly anything new.


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2008)

Carthage sounds like a pretty big town.

The walmarts in Wichita Falls (pop. 100K) hasn't closed anything down that I'm aware of.

But when they go into the only good sized town in the area, with said town maybe a couple thousand pop, but it's where all the outlying areas shop (because there's nowhere else for 50 miles), and there are only a dozen total businesses (maybe including the dr's office and gas station), then there's a problem when walmart moves in.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

texican said:


> Let me give you this scenario... You're on your way home from work, and you weren't listening to the radio all day, and you find out the shtf... and you can make only ONE STOP... at that stop, you can Get As Much As You Want... (these are the rules, one stop!!!)
> Where are you going to go?


That's a strawman argument. Of course in that scenario we're going to stop at Walmart. 

There have been times that I, passionate Walmart hater that I am, have gone in there to buy something. I try extremely hard to minimize those times and I'm only going to do it in emergency. I average about one trip to Walmart every three years, which is fine with me. 

You say mom and pop stores are put out of business because they can't compete? Of course they can't compete. Read this article. It shows that over a billion dollars of taxpayer money has gone to subsidize Walmart stores. We give them rent-free property, they pay no city/state/federal taxes, and then a big sack of cash to top it all off. All out of the taxpayer's pocket. You know what else? Many of those dollars came out of the pockets of the owners and employees of those mom and pop stores who diligently pay their taxes. 

So let's not try and paint a picture that Walmart is simply outcompeting the local businesses in a free market economy. Our economy is anything but a free market when our government (federal and local both) takes money away from the small businesses and gives it to the big corporations.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Walmart is one of the few stores that still allow the Salvation Army buckets out front (Target, Penney's, Sears, and a bunch of others don't). In 2007 they gave three millions meals to Second Harvest food pantries. They support The United Way, and many other charities. They honor our military with Military Outreach programs, and the Wall of Honor in their stores. They support Fisher House, which in turn supports the families of deployed military personnel. They have given millions of dollars to Children's Miracle Network, which support research and treatment of children and almost 200 hospitals. 

Wal-Mart Foundation awards scholarships worth more than $6 million annually to high school seniors in the USA. And over 27 years of this scholarship program, more than $64 million has gone to approximately 64,000 students. 

Each Walmart Supercenter gives $30-$50k annually back to it own local neighborhood charities. In 2006, local Wal-Mart and Sam's Club gave $6,920,515 in cash and donations to local causes and organizations to communities in the state of North Carolina alone!

My family patronizes small businesses often, but Walmart saves us money, and they DO give back a lot to our wonderful country. And any company who supports our military is ok in my book. I'm not sure the charitible donations of all the small businesses in North Carolina combined could equal the almost $7 Million Walmart donated. 

Walmart was also the first one to offer Rx drugs at $4....for thousands of people that was literally a lifesaver. I have relatives who couldn't afford their meds, and now they can.

I don't like seeing Walmart portrayed as such a selfish company. It's not perfect, no, but they put their money where their mouth is.


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2008)

Mom_of_Four said:


> Walmart is one of the few stores that still allow the Salvation Army buckets out front (Target, Penney's, Sears, and a bunch of others don't). In 2007 they gave three millions meals to Second Harvest food pantries. They support The United Way, and many other charities. They honor our military with Military Outreach programs, and the Wall of Honor in their stores. They support Fisher House, which in turn supports the families of deployed military personnel. They have given millions of dollars to Children's Miracle Network, which support research and treatment of children and almost 200 hospitals.
> 
> Wal-Mart Foundation awards scholarships worth more than $6 million annually to high school seniors in the USA. And over 27 years of this scholarship program, more than $64 million has gone to approximately 64,000 students.
> 
> ...


Corporate walmart gives almost nothing from their own coffers. All that money they are giving is donated by the employees working there.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Walmart workers make about $9/hr. How could they possibly be donating that much money to charities?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Mom_of_Four said:


> Walmart is one of the few stores that still allow the Salvation Army buckets out front (Target, Penney's, Sears, and a bunch of others don't). In 2007 they gave three millions meals to Second Harvest food pantries. They support The United Way, and many other charities. They honor our military with Military Outreach programs, and the Wall of Honor in their stores. They support Fisher House, which in turn supports the families of deployed military personnel. They have given millions of dollars to Children's Miracle Network, which support research and treatment of children and almost 200 hospitals.
> 
> Wal-Mart Foundation awards scholarships worth more than $6 million annually to high school seniors in the USA. And over 27 years of this scholarship program, more than $64 million has gone to approximately 64,000 students.
> 
> ...


I'm suspicious of all these facts and figures you have at your fingertips. Post a reference link, please. 

Something like this ...

http://www.walmartsubsidywatch.org/

Interesting enough, it shows that Walmart received more than $5 million in government subsidies for that big supercenter they opened near you in Charlotte. They put their money where their mouth is? Whose money? Looks like they put some of YOUR money there.

The Walmart Foundation, cheerfully doling out the scholarships, was founded by Sam Walton. You've got to separate the good man from the bad corporation. Much of the other "charity" work that Walmart is doing is a concentrated PR campaign. 

http://www.walmartfacts.com/articles/5378.aspx

They gave back to their communities a total of around $300 million in FY07. That's out of their FY07 sales of $344.9 billion. I can't find a summation of how many government subsidies they received, but it's part of that $1.2 billion. And since some of that $1.2 billion was free land they'll never have to pay for, it's the gift that keeps on giving. 

Your comment reads like a Walmart press release. Color me suspicious.


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2008)

Mom_of_Four said:


> Walmart workers make about $9/hr. How could they possibly be donating that much money to charities?


I speak the truth.

Did you know that poor and middle class people donate a far larger percentage of their income to charitable causes than do wealthy people?

Walmart has about 1.4 million employees in the US (excluding International stores). Those nickles and dimes add up.

ETA: I should mention also that some of their fund raisers solicit donations from the shoppers. The Walmarts here do that frequently. Then they take all those donations from their customers and employees, and take credit for Walmart when they hand the money over to the cause.


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2008)

I don't like driving 25 miles to walmart either. But you know what, I have too anymore. When I was growing up we had these little General Stores in our areas. You could buy anything you needed from Groceries and hardware to guns and ammo. But now days we don't have the old fashion General Stores, we have what they call Conveniant Stores. And they are not very conveniant if you ask me. The nearest place to buy guns and ammo is Walmart. 

I hear that walmart is gonna do away with selling guns and ammo. As well as the fabric department. Right now if you go into a fairly new or remodeled Walmart store you will find the fabric department is very little compared to what it use to be. If they do away with guns and ammo I might have to start ordering all my ammo from a cataloge.


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

Here we have a few small grocery stores that actually beat Wally World on their groceries. One is IGA which is in our little town 20 miles from Wally and another is Sav-A-Lot. Now if you buy what they have on sale Wally is put to shame. Our meat dept at IGA is clean and doesn't smell at all. I will once in awhile have someone pick up me some instant drink mixes as I can't find them elsewhere. Sam


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

Ok here is another but I can't call names but do know this as true. Have you wondered why some of the name brands are not in Wally anymore? If you go to say hardware and pick up a black n decker drill for instance and weigh it, then go to you little ace or mom n pop and weigh that same drill guess which one weighs more and will last longer. Wally will tell the people who they buy from what they will pay and if they can't buy it for that then they don't buy from them. And if they do buy from you it is like on consignment, and providers are sometimes standing up to them. I know not of one dime wally has put back in our towns here. Sam


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## Fryegirl (Sep 16, 2006)

I'm not sure why Walmart came to our county. The population is only 15,000 and most of the neighboring counties are closer to other Walmart stores.

As I stated, we've lost some local businesses, but it ain't over yet. I've already heard rumors of Lowes's or Home Depot parking itself next to Walmart (which is fairly typical) so local lumber, appliance and remodeling/home fixture stores will probably go, too.

I expect the usual Applebee's, Ruby Tuesday's, etc to show up as well.

Let's not forget things like increased traffic.

One of the arguments given for favoring a Walmart here was the influx of tax money that will occur. Yet water biils have risen and the county has had to add a few more cops the the payroll in order to cruise the parking lot. So far, any tax monies collected haven't benefitted the local infrastructure.

Methinks that people are often trading human values for convenience.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

ladycat said:


> Walmart has about 1.4 million employees in the US (excluding International stores). Those nickles and dimes add up.


If there are 1.4 million employees earning $10/hr, working 7 days a week, 360 days per year, donating 100% of their income back to Walmart, that still doesn't equal the donations they claim. 

If any store can't offer the lowest prices and best selection, they will fail by definition, even when it's just a couple of small country grocery stores competing. Competition is what keeps us from paying MUCH more for everything we buy. A small store will employ 2-10 people. One Walmart will employ 100. In a small town, that's not insignificant. Yes there is more traffic, but when I go to Walmart in town, it a long trek. I also go to the bank, the auto parts store, swing through the drivethru for fast food, hit the post office, and fill up my gas tank. I spend a lot of money in that town that day.

In many other countries, the government is protectionist to the point that the local hardware/grocery store only offers a small selection of products made in that country. They are expensive, not always well made, and if you don't like what's offered, tough. Prices are also dictated, so there are no sales. There IS no competition.

I don't want to keep arguing about this subject - I like this board and want to enjoy our discussions. I know I'm the minority on the WalMart subject, but I much prefer capitalism to socialism. I've lived with both, and government control of free market isn't pretty.


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2008)

Mom_of_Four said:


> If there are 1.4 million employees earning $10/hr, working 7 days a week, 360 days per year, donating 100% of their income back to Walmart, that still doesn't equal the donations they claim.


I'm only quoting actual facts and figures. The amount of corporate funds given is very small, I forget the actual figure, but for the last 10 years it's such-and-such amount, and it doesn't add up to much.

The majority of the giving is what the individual stores raise from employee and customer donations. The amount the stores raise that way is the figures that are publicized to make it look like walmart is giving a lot when they're not.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I know that Walmart is not the only company to do the , employees give and the company takes the credit.

When with the last big company I worked for, they would do the United Way pledge thing, and "I (the company)" would get the credit of how 'they' gave $x .

Also, when the new ceo took over, it was everyone could fill out papers (encouraged) to tell what outside volunteer work they did - I was doing quite a bit at that time, and I did not put it down on the sheet or fill one out..... reason - I was on my own time and the company had NOTHING to do with any of it. If they had let me do it while being paid, then I figured they could take credit for volunteer work I was doing.. never happened.

Just to show that corps will take credit for work their employees do, even when not on company time or with company funds.

Angie


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

Regarding Target and Salvation Army:
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/charity/sallyann.asp
http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn...C243B3583468A6E7852572260057D753?opendocument


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> I know that Walmart is not the only company to do the , employees give and the company takes the credit.
> 
> When with the last big company I worked for, they would do the United Way pledge thing, and "I (the company)" would get the credit of how 'they' gave $x .
> 
> ...


That is such a sleazy practice. What an utter dissapointment.

Sometimes I wish I was ignorant, wouldn't that be bliss. 

You guys keep feeding me facts that get me all riled up. Doesn't seem like enough people care to make it change. It's as if our hands are tied.

So much corruption in plain sight, yet it continues, business as usual.

Maybe I'm not jaded, I'm just informed. :shrug:


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2008)

Mom_of_Four said:


> If there are 1.4 million employees earning $10/hr, working 7 days a week, 360 days per year, donating 100% of their income back to Walmart, that still doesn't equal the donations they claim.


This is one of Walmart's websites: http://www.walmartfacts.com/articles/5378.aspx

At the bottom:

_Community Involvement 
In 2006, Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. gave more than $300 million to support its 6,700 world-wide communities. Thatâs more than $5.8 million per week. Wal-Mart is recognized as the largest corporate cash contributor in America, donating more than $270 million to support its 4,000-plus U.S.-based communities in 2006. 

The majority of Wal-Martâs charitable contributions are directed at the local level, where Wal-Mart customers and associates live and work. _ 

If $5 of that $5.8 million per week comes from employee and customer donations *at the store level* (which is how most of it is raised), then that would amount to only $3 and change per employee *IF* the employees were the only ones donating (according to Walmarts own figures). However, these are community fundraisers, so most of it is coming from the customers.


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2008)

AngieM2 said:


> When with the last big company I worked for, they would do the United Way pledge thing, and "I (the company)" would get the credit of how 'they' gave $x


Both of my brothers have worked for companies that did that United Way pledge scam. It's *REQUIRED* for the employees to have a few dollars held out of each paycheck once a month. Employees have no choice.

Then the C*OMPANY* takes all the credit, and once a year announces how much they (the COMPANY) contributed to United Way that year.

Walmart does a similar tactic, except their way gets more publicity about what they give back to the community.

One of the local Walmarts here, for example, has drives for the food bank, and to raise money for everything from the Boy Scouts to the fire departments. This raises money in the community for the community, true.

But then Walmart HQ takes all the credit and publicizes how much they are doing for the communities that they serve.

NOTHING wrong with raising money for the communities. But give credit where it's due!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Mom_of_Four said:


> I don't want to keep arguing about this subject - I like this board and want to enjoy our discussions. I know I'm the minority on the WalMart subject, but I much prefer capitalism to socialism. I've lived with both, and government control of free market isn't pretty.


How can you use the free market argument after I've posted a number of links explaining how much money Walmart has received free from local, state, and federal government? 

Do you think it's a free market when your local government gives away free land to a business to bring them into an area? Do you think it's a free market when a business is given a tax exemption for 10 years? The small mom and pop stores don't get these breaks, and that's why their prices are higher. They had to buy the land, pay taxes, pay rent, and a dozen other overhead prices that Walmart did not have to pay.

Where I used to live in Oklahoma City, they put up a half dozen smaller Walmart grocery stores around the city, about one every 5 miles. Eight years went by and local businesses closed. When there was no longer any competition, they closed each and every one of those small Walmarts within 3 months and built a mega-supercenter down by the highway. They used small stores to eliminate the competition, then when there were few or no alternatives they routed everyone to the location of the corporation's choice. 

This is a game corporations play. Do you have a small but popular drive-in diner still thriving in your town? A place where you can get a burger and a shake and the teenagers like to go on a Friday night? Look what is next door to it now. It's going to be a Sonic or a Culver's or something else trying to cash in on that and drive them out of business.

There's nothing wrong with making money as a business. However, a human being knows when enough is enough. "Kilroy and Sons Hardware" can only expand so far because old man Kilroy only has so many sons. It's enough that he has a shop on main street and makes a living. However a corporation is a different entity altogether. It's a beast that's been put together for the express purpose of making as much money as possible. It's not enough to have a store on main street, they must also have a store anywhere else it may be profitable. And they cannot abide that anyone else have a store. They despise competition. They will use every trick in the book to eliminate competition.


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

*"We have met the enemy and they is us!" - Pogo*

I'm not here to defend Wal-Mart, but I have found that every business has a way to compete and win if they choose to, (service, carry specialty items that the big box boys won't bother with, etc). It's called marketing, but many retailers are too lazy or too stupid to get creative enough and create a niche for themselves. Many ticked off their customers way before Wal-Mart came to town and then cried foul when the people left at the first chance.

For example, my city had a department store that closed recently called Goldman's. This store didn't close because Wal-Mart or anyone else drove them out, they closed because the owners were in their 80's and wanted to slow down. They provided fair prices, excellent service (like greeting each person as they entered a department and asking how they could help, standing close by, but not hovering), carried oil cloth on the bolt, large sizes (up to 6x), stuff you could find in most stores 50 years ago, but not today, clothing that appealed to the ethnic mix of the neighborhood (vibrant zoot suits and hats, etc.). They kept employees for years. Many started as part-time and became department heads and buyers. They loved working for the place. When the closure was announced, people came from miles around to clear the shelves (they even had to reorder high demand items more than once) and relive shopping there in the past. They even sold t-shirts that said "We "heart" Goldman's" for $10 bucks each, and people bought them. This is how you compete with a Wal-Mart and win. 

I hate to go into a store and can't find an employee to help me and when I do find them, I usually know more about their merchandise than they do. Or wait 20 minutes to hand them my money (2 lanes out of 24 open). 

If a retailer tries to compete with Wal-Mart on price alone, the game is over before it begins. If they get creative and work their butts off, they can survive and win. *IF THEY DON'T, THEY DESERVED TO DIE!*


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2008)

Ernie said:


> How can you use the free market argument after I've posted a number of links explaining how much money Walmart has received free from local, state, and federal government?


Yeah, for every dollar that the local stores raise for the community, walmart gets about $3 to $4 in government subsidies. That's like 30% return.

BTW, I did the math. Walmart gave (or rather, their employees and customers gave most of it), $300 million in 2006. Out of 1.4 million employees, this works out to $214 per employee for one year. I don't see how this can be construed as Walmart giving more than what the employees made, unless the employees are only making $200 per year.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Not every mom and pop store is run by folks with a team of marketing specialists, advertising campaign and attorneys up the wazoo.

No one deserves to have a business die if the only reason it is killed off is the emergence of cheap prices on their turf.


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2008)

Ernie said:


> Do you think it's a free market when your local government gives away free land to a business to bring them into an area? Do you think it's a free market when a business is given a tax exemption for 10 years? The small mom and pop stores don't get these breaks, and that's why their prices are higher. They had to buy the land, pay taxes, pay rent, and a dozen other overhead prices that Walmart did not have to pay.


That's not the only reasons prices are higher at the mom and pops. 

Walmart negotiates for cheaper prices with their suppliers. The suppliers make a separate line of cheaper goods for walmart. Buying large quanity helps keep walmart's costs lower.

But that's not all. *WALMART RUNS THEIR OWN SWEATSHOPS IN ASIA AND THE LOWER AMERICAS!!!!!!!*


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## sparkysarah (Dec 4, 2007)

So, will the quality of canned food be better at a western family store be better than walmarts? I've always been told that for the most part it is just all labeling. Is the food really going to be better at a small store? Just want an opinion. I know the meat has got to be better. I do hate a lot of walmarts meat.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Let me pose to you a question then, Sarah.

Let's say you're a supplier of canned chili. You've been dealing with the mom and pop's for years and selling your chili for $2.50 per can. That's a profit of about $0.30 per can for you. Then you get an opportunity to sell your chili at Walmart. Only their crack team of negotiators comes in and says they won't buy your chili for $2.50 per can. They want you to sell it for $2.00 per can. There goes your profit of $0.30 per can.

Only you really like the idea of selling your chili to millions, and you think that there's ways you can cut the costs. You don't really need to buy those organic vegetables that go into the chili when you can get cut-rate produce from Venezeula. And once it's ground up, nobody can tell the difference between quality beef and stockyard waste, so you can save a few bucks there. And then that old factory you have in rural Indiana could easily be moved to Mexico. There. Now you're down to $1.70 a can in costs and can afford to sell it to Walmart for $2.00 per can. You're still going to be making your $0.30 per can, and now you'll be selling millions. Lucky you!

Oh, and mom and pop are going to be delighted to get your chili for a deep discount. And the consumers probably won't notice the drop in quality because all the suppliers have been doing this over the years. EVERYTHING is a lower quality now. It's the new standard.


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## Grace&Violets (Apr 4, 2007)

I was on my way home one day and decided to stop by Walmart, since it was right on the way. I picked up some hamburger and spagetti sauce. The hamburger was well before the expire date and the spagetti sauce was a brand that I always buy from Safeway. The hamburger looked and tasted so nasty after it was cooked, I had to throw it away and there were STEMS in the spagetti sauce (something that I've never seen before or since in the same brand when bought from Safeway). Anyway, I thought the hamburger thing was just a fluke, so jump forward a few weeks. Bought some more hamburger from Walmart. Big mistake. It had the same look and taste as the first buy. Lesson learned, will never buy meat from Walmart again. 

I agree with Ernie, that even the canned/jarred food is lower quality than you get at other stores.


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## Grace&Violets (Apr 4, 2007)

Oh, I was going to add, if I watch my prices and buy items on sale, I can usually save a lot more when I don't shop at Walmart. I did a shopping trip there and compared receipts to a previous shopping trip at another store and there were quite a few items that cost more at Walmart. There are some items that were cheaper at Walmart, but averaged out, it's not cheaper for us to shop there.


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## LynninTX (Jun 23, 2004)

OK a question.... how are Dollar General or Fred Meyer different from Walmart? They are also corporate stores and for the most part even lower quality. 

There is no local grocery store left in either our town or the next closest.... all are big corporate run. 

We do patronize our local feed store over TSC if they carry it.

We do buy what we can from the local hardware store (all are Ace's).

We do NOT patronize the local hfs in the next closest town because they have no interest in the customer. 

The privately owned stores here are few and far between. They just do not exist. We do shop for some groceries at the regional chain store, but you have to be careful there... whipping cream is SOLID, bread is moldy at purchase, cereals and beans are buggy... 

Not arguing on Walmart... but for those items we buy locally they are often the ONLY game in town. Sadly we buy alot online because it is not avail locally. 

I guess some towns have already lost the battle.

We have to travel over 2 hrs to find a small owned eye glass repair.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I sympathize with you, Lynn. And I hope your plight is a warning to others who have options now but continue to shop at Walmart.


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2008)

Lynn in TX, a lot of places, it's hard to find anything locally owned.

We do patronize the locally owned businesses in the county seat as much as possible, and also the businesses in Waurika, OK, are mostly locally owned.

But some places, it's hard to find anything locally owned.


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## LynninTX (Jun 23, 2004)

btw - I found the other thread on what is a local store helpful. 

But yes... we are losing choices all over. 

And it does matter to us... we are small business owners and workers... we sell farm products and I am grateful for my customers, my dh cleans pools, delivers water for a local owned store, and does taxes and bookkeeping for a Block franchise... locally owned.... so we see the issue... and we still do shop at Walmart because sometimes there is not a choice.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Mom_of_Four said:


> but I much prefer capitalism to socialism. I've lived with both, and government control of free market isn't pretty.


Do you prefer Capitalism to COMMUNISM?

I dont support Commies.


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

hintonlady said:


> Not every mom and pop store is run by folks with a team of marketing specialists, advertising campaign and attorneys up the wazoo.
> 
> No one deserves to have a business die if the only reason it is killed off is the emergence of cheap prices on their turf.



If you need a marketing specialist to tell you what your customers want, *you haven't been listening to them!* A good businessman (woman) listens to the customers and responds. They also educate the customer on the quality of their products and service as they serve their needs.

The example business I cited in my previous post was in business for over 110 years! They had a Sears only 4 blocks away for years (remember when they were America's #1 retailer?) and outlived that store.

Think of the farmer who sells goat milk or organic produce to compete against corporate dairies and vegetables grown far away, under questionable methods.
*
It's not always about price, if it was, most of you would have been history a long time ago.*


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

diamondtim said:


> *
> It's not always about price, if it was, most of you would have been history a long time ago.*


Not every shopper is a shrewd community oriented homesteader.

If your theory were sound customers would get tired of waiting in a line 7 carts deep at walmart to save a couple bucks. That is the worst customer service EVER. Yet, somehow people return, why cheap products.

Some people could care less what products go into their families mouths all in the name of saving a buck.

Some people need the convience of mega mart shopping. No time or inclination to visit the butcher, green grocer and bakery.

Many shoppers are LAZY and CHEAP walmart caters to that. 

No smile from mom and pop can compete with that. The dollar is king.

Too bad you can't eat a dollar or half the JUNK at walmart.

BTW I am really happy for that store that was open so long, not every store is so fortunate. Sears has been open forever too, doesn't make them good people.


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

ladycat said:


> I guess it belongs here because so many people are using wm and sam's to prep.


Not me. I loathe Walmart. I would rather prep more slowly and support local businesses.


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

hintonlady said:


> Not every shopper is a shrewd community oriented homesteader.
> 
> If your theory were sound customers would get tired of waiting in a line 7 carts deep at walmart to save a couple bucks. That is the worst customer service EVER. Yet, somehow people return, why cheap products.
> 
> ...



*There will always be "price chasers". :shrug: 

John Ruskin said:

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." *


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

mightybooboo said:


> Do you prefer Capitalism to COMMUNISM?
> 
> I dont support Commies.


Of course I'm against Communism. But I've only lived in Capitalist and Socialist countries, for comparison purposes. Our time living in Socialist, protectionist countries was very frustrating because we chafed at the limits on our choices and freedoms. I'd hate to see that happen in our country.

Ernie, I do understand your position on Walmart, I just don't totally agree. I think they bring employment and shopping to areas that didn't have either one. Many people can't afford more than the cheapest things they can find, and you'll never find them paying more for service with a smile at the Mom and Pop store. Places like Walmart and Dollar General are lifesavers for them. I don't think any store should be limited in our free country, and people should shop their consciences or what they can afford. Sears has learned the valuable lesson that shoddy customer service and crappy clothes will bankrupt them. KMart learned that lesson too...and now those two have merged to give it one more shot. Perhaps Walmart has that kind of lesson on the horizon too...

I do probably 80% of all my shopping online. I compare prices and value, take advantage of sales and free shipping offers, and basically just do the best I can to feed and clothe my family, and put some preps aside for any hard times we may face.

I do make a big effort to NOT buy anything made in China, no matter what store is selling it. I just passed up a chicken feeder at the local feed store today because it was made in China.

I'll leave you all to gnash your teeth about Walmart...I didn't mean to stir up so much trouble! :doh: :stars:


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

For those that can't afford anything "but the cheapest" . . thats what wallyfart loves . . . .because they are well aware that the cheap carp that they peddle has a very limited life, and those folks will soon be back to replace it.
Yes they prey apon those folks with a short income.
But shame on those folks for not realizing what is happening..


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Ernie said:


> You say mom and pop stores are put out of business because they can't compete? Of course they can't compete.


So, competition is bad, then?

I'm sorry, but I like choices. I remember the bad ol days... you bought your socks at Beall Bros. in Carthage, and you'd best "like it". If not, pack your bags and drive 30 miles to Marshall, or 40 miles to Longview, and buy from some other mini chain mom and pop stores. 

Call me stupid, but I sometimes do buy something more expensive at one of the local shops, just because of the service... but there is a limit. I bought some spark plugs at the marine store, then was out at Wallys right after that for something else, and saw the identical spark plugs for two dollars each, less...

Is it capitalism, and free choice, that riles some folks?

I remember stories (it wasn't that long ago) where in the USSR, there was one shop for this and one shop for that... no competition whatsoever, and very rarely any stock available.

Ladycat, Carthage is between 6800 and 7000 people right now. The area is booming... we're averaging one new eatery a month right now... stores are popping up everywhere.... as close to wallyworld as they can possibly get. And there's a land speculation boom going on around the planned supercenter site...


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Texican, where have you been in this thread? You haven't done your homework. We've already provided evidence that Walmart has received over $1.2 billion dollars (taxpayer dollars) in government subsidies while the local mom and pop shops they compete against have gotten SQUAT. So how is that competition?

I love how some of you continuously invoke the myth of the free market. Do you really believe what you learned in 8th grade social studies, or have you come to grips yet with what your grown-up experience in the real world has taught you? Let me give you a different civics lesson.

A man wants to be a barber. He has a yearn to cut hair. However he can't go get a job cutting hair without a license. A state license. Obviously the state must mandate and control every hair stylist out there due to the vast number of haircut related deaths each year. So now the man has gotten his license and wants to open a shop. Only he can't get a loan. The banks and the SBA all tell him, "your business plan sucks. There's a Supercuts on every corner." So he goes down to Supercuts with his new state license to cut hair and then becomes a wage slave. From January to March all of his labor and effort goes towards paying off his income tax, so that's essentially conscripted labor. The same labor that built the pyramids (government conscription) now effects each and every one of you out there getting paid a salary. You work for at least the first three months of every year just to pay the tax bill. 

So our barber hero has finally earned enough money to open up his own business in direct competition with Supercuts. He quits and goes to try and find a place to rent. Only now he needs liability insurance or the state won't let him open. Oh, and his place will need to be inspected by a state inspector, and he'll have to pay to get anything fixed that doesn't pass, and pay for the inspector's time too. 

In a free market, our barber hero would have been in business as soon as he'd found a chair and a pair of scissors. In our market he's licensed, assessed fees, and regulated right out of business before he ever gets a chance to whip that dropcloth around your neck. And to add insult to injury, those tax dollars that are being conscripted from him from January to March every year are going in part to support Supercuts, his direct competitor. They're getting tax subsidies out the wazoo because Senator Freeloader got a big fat contribution and he's convinced the voters that "Supercuts will bring much needed jobs to our impoverished area!"

Free market. Huh. You lost that in 1934.


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## Guest (Feb 1, 2008)

texican said:


> I bought some spark plugs at the marine store, then was out at Wallys right after that for something else, and saw the identical spark plugs for two dollars each, less...


I'm willing to bet those wm plugs wouldn't have lasted nearly as long as the ones you bought elsewhere for $2 more.  The wm products *appear* to be identical on the outside, but they are not the same.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

diamondtim said:


> *
> "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." *



That is something I can dig.

Just not the raping of a community part, that will always offend me, no matter how subtle or indirect.


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

hintonlady said:


> That is something I can dig.
> 
> Just not the raping of a community part, that will always offend me, no matter how subtle or indirect.


You may be shocked, but I agree.  And if your elected officials are a specific business' "paramours" then they need to be thrown out of their jobs!


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

ladycat said:


> I'm willing to bet those wm plugs wouldn't have lasted nearly as long as the ones you bought elsewhere for $2 more.  The wm products *appear* to be identical on the outside, but they are not the same.


And that is true.I remember the one were they took apart an elctric razor from Wally and somewhere else.Looked the same but wally was filled with flimsy parts.

Gotta love it.


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## shellycoley (Mar 6, 2003)

I want to tell you all a little about how Wal-Mart affects my little store.

I work part time at the Farmers' Alliance Store in my little hometown in rural central North Carolina. Farmers' Alliance has been in business for 119 years and has occupied the same building for 101 years.
The store so far has survived many things, including a Great Depression, a tornado that tore the roof off half the store, and the installation of electric lights. It's not Wal-Mart that's killing us, it simply the people who want to get something cheaper....
The store's manager, Nancy, who has worked for the store for over 40 years puts much thought and effort into the products we sell. She tries to find the very best quality items and offer them and a affordable price.
Farmers' Alliance carries a large line of american made Pointer brand carpenter jeans and overalls, but you can get blue jeans at Wal-Mart for $6 less. 
We carry quality garden tools, with solid wood handles and metal tines, blades, shovels, ect. They cost more than the $5.00 ones Wal-Mart just got in. 
We carry a huge selection of garden seeds, many of which are heirloom varieties and sell for as little as $1 an ounce.We weigh them ourselves in our little paper bags stapled and labled by us. Wal-Mart has a display of seeds 5/$1.00.
We buy our local honey from a guy who buys his beekeeping supplies from us.
But, you can get the honey bear at wal-mart.
I had to try to explain to someone today, that No, we're not getting rich charging more than Wal-Mart. We are not buying second quality items by the millions, but putting in small orders with companies we've been dealing with sometimes for decades. Because we own our building, we don't have a lease to pay, however there are cost such as insurance, wages (piddly) taxes, and things like those electic lights, and the oil bill to keep it warm in here. And we have to pay for everything with in thirty days, even if it sits on our shelf for a year. Our mark up is rarely over 30%, sometimes as little as 5% but in truth we can't buy our products at wholesale for what wal-mart is retail.
Because they're not as cheap as what wal-mart carries.
:bash: 

Nichol


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## Hillbillybob (Jul 30, 2007)

shellycoley said:


> I want to tell you all a little about how Wal-Mart affects my little store.
> 
> I work part time at the Farmers' Alliance Store in my little hometown in rural central North Carolina. Farmers' Alliance has been in business for 119 years and has occupied the same building for 101 years.
> The store so far has survived many things, including a Great Depression, a tornado that tore the roof off half the store, and the installation of electric lights. It's not Wal-Mart that's killing us, it simply the people who want to get something cheaper....
> ...


That is why stores like yours always gets my money. I work very hard for the money that I get and I sure want to buy something that is going to last me after driving 35 miles one way to get it.

I don't, I won't shop at WalMarts. I not that stupid with the hard earned money that I make. I figure I need to get full benefit out of ever dollar that I spend and WalMart can go to hell.

Hillbillybob


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2008)

shellycoley, if your store was near me, I'd be shopping there.

BTW, we buy local honey for considerably more than it sells for in the stores. It's local, and it's not cut with high-fructose corn syrup, like that stuff at Walmart is.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2008)

Hillbillybob said:


> That is why stores like yours always gets my money. I work very hard for the money that I get and I sure want to buy something that is going to last me after driving 35 miles one way to get it.


Amen.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Thank you, Shelly, for a report from the front lines. 

A lot of you may not be Irish and protestant, but if you are then you may have older relatives who remember the boycotts. What was happening was that the Catholics were determined to drive the protestants out, so they boycotted all protestant stores. To keep their protestant shopkeepers going, Irish protestants went in every day and bought something. Anything. It didn't matter if they needed it or not, they went in daily to every protestant shop and bought some little thing. Many an old Irish relative of mine will proudly point to the ugliest knick-knack or ashtray in their house and say, "I bought that during the boycott." They saved their neighbors from financial ruin and being run out of the country. They are very proud of that fact.

There are a couple of stores where I go out of my way to go there once a week and try to buy something, even if it's something I don't need. I try to find something useful and I either give it to someone else or mail it to someone I know might could use it. I'm not spending much money, but I'm spending a little and I hope it helps. For some of these businesses, just having a car parked in front of their place for a little while helps people realize they are still there. 

Guys, this is a war. It is a cultural revolution as real as Mao's revolution in China, and every bit as dangerous as Castro's revolution. It is going to determine your future and the future of your children, in whether they have the choice to buy merchandise from small local merchants who live in their community, or whether we are all enslaved to the corporate machine and our dollars are funneled out of the small communities in which we live.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I reckon we'll just have to disagree on some things.

Yes, walmart gets subsidies... when they build a store, the state improves the roads around them so they don't have wrecks. They get tax breaks for so many years. The kicker is, the sales taxes brought in greatly outnumber the tax abatements.

Older stores are in areas where there are already roads.

There are rules in business... the barber hero should have worked sweeping up hair at Supercuts and the old barbers place... talk economics with both... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out most businessmen aren't getting rich... after taxes, licenses, mortgages, insurance, wages, and bookkeepers, there's not that much left. 

I'm sorry, but it has pretty much ALways been the rule, when borrowing money at the bank... if you don't really need the money, you can have all you want... if you really need the money, you can't have anything. Bankers want to protect their investments. When I started building my home twenty years ago, I couldn't get my foot in the door at the bank, so I built it myself, no permits, no licenses, no taxes. Race ahead to a few years ago, after my net worth went from 0 to 6 figures... I went back in to refinance some loans my father had, after he died... thought I'd have to beg... nope, no problems... my home, my land, my reputation was enough.

And I think the war is over. Americans don't want to work... they want positions, with percs. Who among us wants to assemble widgets in a hot factory, for minimum wages. I can't see manufacturing coming back to this country, for a long time if ever. No work ethic and the wages would be too low. The genie is out of the bottle... even the people that might benefit from a 'high paying' factry job, would still end up purchasing foreign widgets.

I WILL NEVER work in a factory. Did it one summer in college. Not Again. I can starve quite nicely on my own. So I guess I'm spoiled.

Spark plugs are so darn cheap... I can't for the life of me think that there's any 'shortcut' on making a cheaper sparkie... what, teensy bit less ceramic? I can see cutting corners on a 20$ item... but something thats less than a buck? I don't know if they were Chinese or not.

Please tell me how to reverse this... Outlaw competition. Outlaw tax breaks? Do you really think 1.2 billion is going to affect Wallys bottom line? How much does wally make each year? 40 billion? I don't know. Level the playing field? Outlaw chain stores? I know some socialist enclaves that try, by banning stores larger than x feet... the exact size of wally world super centers...

Whenever wally worlds are banned from areas, who suffers? Not well to do folks like us, but poor folks trying to squeeze as much out of a dollar bill as they can.

btw... imho... the best place to buy dried beans, all things equal, beans from same area of the four corners bean region... is the place that will sell them to me for the least amount of money. Otherwise, I'd get them on the internet, for several times what the local stores sell them for, plus pay as much postage as the bag of beans costs at the local store. I assume the bean grower gets the same starvation rate from any wholesale bagger they choose to sell to.


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

shellycoley said:


> I want to tell you all a little about how Wal-Mart affects my little store.
> 
> I work part time at the Farmers' Alliance Store in my little hometown in rural central North Carolina. Farmers' Alliance has been in business for 119 years and has occupied the same building for 101 years.
> The store so far has survived many things, including a Great Depression, a tornado that tore the roof off half the store, and the installation of electric lights. It's not Wal-Mart that's killing us, it simply the people who want to get something cheaper....
> ...


Nichol, 

Feel free to print the John Ruskin quote that I posted earlier and place it in a conspicuous place (or places) in your store. It may start some questions and get some people thinking. That is the problem, most people don't think, especially when it comes to the consequences of their actions.

I'll bet if you go back and investigate why the Farmer's Alliance store started, you'll find that it was a response to what was occurring in the local economy. A need for goods that was not being filled or gouging by local merchants or some other local crisis. Maybe some folks in the area need to be reminded of that reason.


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## tn_junk (Nov 28, 2006)

Wally World stays in business because people shop there. No matter how much we hate the place, it is a booming business. Those of us who would rather pay more and buy from a local merchant are in a great minority. Much as we don't want to acknowledge it, the WalMart way is successful due to people willing to get less for less.

alan


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2008)

Ernie said:


> Let me pose to you a question then, Sarah.
> 
> Let's say you're a supplier of canned chili. You've been dealing with the mom and pop's for years and selling your chili for $2.50 per can. That's a profit of about $0.30 per can for you. Then you get an opportunity to sell your chili at Walmart. Only their crack team of negotiators comes in and says they won't buy your chili for $2.50 per can. They want you to sell it for $2.00 per can. There goes your profit of $0.30 per can.
> 
> ...





Grace&Violets said:


> I was on my way home one day and decided to stop by Walmart, since it was right on the way. I picked up some hamburger and spagetti sauce. The hamburger was well before the expire date and the spagetti sauce was a brand that I always buy from Safeway. The hamburger looked and tasted so nasty after it was cooked, I had to throw it away and there were STEMS in the spagetti sauce (something that I've never seen before or since in the same brand when bought from Safeway). Anyway, I thought the hamburger thing was just a fluke, so jump forward a few weeks. Bought some more hamburger from Walmart. Big mistake. It had the same look and taste as the first buy. Lesson learned, will never buy meat from Walmart again.
> 
> I agree with Ernie, that even the canned/jarred food is lower quality than you get at other stores.


Sorry for bumping an older topic. I had to search to find this but I ran across a tidbit that made me remember Grace&Violets's post. I should have made the connection before!!

I have been aware for many years that many American food companies have factories overseas for producing American brands to sell overseas. For example, an American food company might have a factory in the US for selling within the US, and a factory in China for selling in Asia, and a factory in Argentina for selling in South America. 

It's not just American companies that do this. Group Danone (based in France) has Dannon yogurt factories here and in other countries, NestlÃ¨ (Switzerland), has factories here and in other countries.

This has been common industry practice for decades. Build factories all over the world to sell foods to countries close to those factories. It's a strtegic thing.

Each country has it's own health standards (or lack thereof), and a food factory in a given country follows the health and food safety laws of that country. If a country has lax standards, the company has the option of following looser standards (hopefully most of them at least follow some reasonable standards regardless. I hope).

So anyhow, I came across this: http://walmartwatch.com/img/blog/imported_food_safety.pdf (PDF) which has this statement: 

_*Wal-Mart Sources Food From China*
Wal-Mart pushes suppliers overseas, forcing them to do business where labor and parts are cheaper, but poorly regulated._

That could explain a LOT!  It may very well be why a given food brand is lower quality from Walmart than it is from your local supermarket.

Good webpage here: http://walmartwatch.com/issues/supplier_relationships/


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## TC (Jun 22, 2005)

I just hate Walmart because of the mob scene there. I refuse to go on a weekend, I will not go in the afternoon. I find that groceries are too high there, especially if you stick with sales at other small grocery stores, so try not to buy groceries there. The clothing at walmart used to be cheap, but now you can go online and order clothing from name brand stores, and click on clearence and find lots of items under 5 bucks. With the exception of t shirts, walmarts clothing has really gone up too high for me to buy. I would rather go to an outlet store or shop online, or sew my own. I do buy office supplies, computer stuff, paper, pencils, shampoo, soaps, cleaning supplies...they are always cheaper at walmart. I do buy fabric and notions there sometimes. I always pay more for my hardware and farm supply needs at a local mom and pop feed /supply store, just because I know who runs it and want to give them my business. It will come in handy if and when NAIS comes into play. I only buy gas and cigarettes at my local mom and pop gas station, unless I'm too far away to do so. Again for the same reason as the feed store. Often another advantage of the mom and pop stores, especially in a rural area, is they will help you when you need help, should you get to know them and are a good regular customer. Often they will extend you credit, offer discounts, turn on your pump without you having to walk in etc.


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

I really like our local "but tiny" grocery store in town. I used to shop at Wal-Mart alot but now we try to stay as local as possible. We live in a really small town, 1 stop light,1 restaurant, and a grocery store small  I do sometimes shop at Dollar General in the next town over but I always check labels to see where items were made. I've found quite a few there that are made here in the USA, but none at Wal-Mart that say Made in the USA. Seems sad really, when I was a kid it was a big deal to "Buy American". Things seemed to last longer back then too!


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

sparkysarah said:


> Maybe this should be moved to General Chat as it has nothing to do with Survival and Emergency Preparedness. Which is the reason why I come here.


I agree with you. I come here to find ways to prep. Not to listen to bashing.


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## shellrow (Feb 8, 2007)

ladycat said:


> Corporate walmart gives almost nothing from their own coffers. All that money they are giving is donated by the employees working there.





ladycat said:


> I'm only quoting actual facts and figures. The amount of corporate funds given is very small, I forget the actual figure, but for the last 10 years it's such-and-such amount, and it doesn't add up to much.
> 
> The majority of the giving is what the individual stores raise from employee and customer donations. The amount the stores raise that way is the figures that are publicized to make it look like walmart is giving a lot when they're not.



I have to agree with ladycat on this one! Our JROTC Booster (High School) just tried to hit the local Wally World up for a big screen tv to sell tickets for at our annual Bike Show.... well the manager in charge of the donations was never in the store, would never return the calls and when it was all said and done the response we got was " we have given our estimated limit of funding for the year" bs speech! So if and when you see where Walmart donated so much $ to this cause of that cause it was from the employees not the corporation!! I do my very best to shop locally. I normally go grocery shopping at Food Lion or IGA here in Lillington. I also frequent a local butcher in Sanford as well. I will not say that I never or will never again purchase something from Walmart but I try my best to stick with the local stores.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Sonshine said:


> I agree with you. I come here to find ways to prep. Not to listen to bashing.


Sorry you don't like all the threads, but sometimes other threads get in here a bit due to the audience/members who don't want a total GC event.

Not often, so just skip ones like this the few times you see it, and all will be good and you won't know you don't like it. - Okay....see, no big problems.

Angie


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## rafter (Feb 26, 2003)

ladycat said:


> Corporate walmart gives almost nothing from their own coffers. All that money they are giving is donated by the employees working there.


DH and I are both dept managers at Wal-mart....you are dead wrong with that statement.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2008)

rafter said:


> DH and I are both dept managers at Wal-mart....you are dead wrong with that statement.


You are privy to what's going on at the corporate level? I got figures directly off the Walmart website that back up my statement.

It's true that *some* Walmart stores are more generous than others. One of the Walmarts here has a very generous manager. He's devout Assembly of God, and it shows.

But managers at the local level and those at the top are 2 different things.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

I think their is two distinct type of opinions on Walmart.

If you live in a small city to a large town. You see them as taking away the little shops that a lot of people enjoy and treasure.

Hence they are Evil.

If you live in a small town or rural area. You generally like walmart as those local stores have been raping the customer as Texican points out.

You see them as a great source of products at affordable prices. 


So I think this is more about you than it is walmart.

The real ones that got it bad are the inner city people. The liberal city governments keep the walmart out. But the local stores use every excuse in the book to gouge the public. Still to this day.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

I tend to look at things on a food level for producers with my own interests. Before Wal-Mart got into groceries here the grocery stores were all chains... every one of them. And every one of them had their own distribution warehouse, and the "local" stores had to buy their food from the warehouse. Which is how we got Washington apples in apple country here, because no matter how much the local managers might have wanted to buy local apples, they weren't allowed to. And still aren't allowed to buy from local farmers, beyond about 1/2% of the inventory of the store, or the chain will fine them.. That's EVERY grocery chain here.

Have two friends who manage two different Wal-Mart stores here. In the beginning, they were the same as the chains. Now they're starting to buy more local food. Why? Wal-Mart doesn't have a food distribution system here. The local manager can buy wherever he wants as long as he at least has the flyer items on hand. Once those items are in the store, if he wants to fill every other shelf with local food, he can do so at his discretion so long as his sales aren't hurt. Soo, if customers are asking their local suppliers for local food, the Wal-Mart manager can just go ahead and do it. The chain stores can't, at least not here. Seems counterintuitive but we're finding that's exactly the way it's working. If you want Canadian beef or Ontario pork in Ontario, your best bet other than going to your neighbour is going to Wal-Mart.


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## rafter (Feb 26, 2003)

ladycat said:


> You are privy to what's going on at the corporate level? I got figures directly off the Walmart website that back up my statement.
> 
> It's true that *some* Walmart stores are more generous than others. One of the Walmarts here has a very generous manager. He's devout Assembly of God, and it shows.
> 
> But managers at the local level and those at the top are 2 different things.


I know that our store gives out tens of thousands of dollars to local charities, and we/employees *do not* donate it. IT is allocated from Bentonville to the stores.

But you would probably know better than I, since you obviously don't work there....


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## kermeg (Jan 11, 2005)

StanB I think that you are totally right.


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## menollyrj (Mar 15, 2006)

Walmart has good prices. That said, I don't go there because I can never find what I'm looking for, and when I ask, the sales clerks don't know either. I can't get in & out quickly because I have to walk to the far right corner of the store to find the one widget I went in to get. Furthermore, I always see seventeen people I know, so you have to stop to talk or be seen as "stuck up" or antisocial, which takes MORE time. Finally, there are never enough registers open, so me and seven other people wait while (a) the manager is called, (b) a price check is completed, (c) a check/credit card won't scan, or (d) a new cashier is trained. I never make a trip into Walmart that doesn't take 45 minutes, one way or the other. It wastes my time. I have been twice in almost 2 years, and I don't miss it, not one bit.

-Joy


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## Mare Owner (Feb 20, 2008)

Ernie said:


> There's nothing wrong with making money as a business. However, a human being knows when enough is enough. "Kilroy and Sons Hardware" can only expand so far because old man Kilroy only has so many sons. It's enough that he has a shop on main street and makes a living. However a corporation is a different entity altogether. It's a beast that's been put together for the express purpose of making as much money as possible. It's not enough to have a store on main street, they must also have a store anywhere else it may be profitable. And they cannot abide that anyone else have a store. They despise competition. They will use every trick in the book to eliminate competition.


So if a small town family run operation has "Inc." behind their name, do they then belong to the second category? Does the local plumber who's son drives around in a tricked out Humvee, know when enough is enough and is happy to just be making a living?

Every community is different. I see signs all the time in MN when you enter towns offering tax free incentives to companies to enter the community. If WMT is business saavy enough to scout out these opportunities and use them, why should they have less right to them than a family owned, smaller enterprise?

Everyone has the same opportunity to vote with their dollars. Times change, and communities change, WMT caused or not. You cannot stand still in time and expect things to last forever just as they are, because you like them this way. Any business has to learn to adapt or it will not last, whether farming or grocery or watering hole.


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