# Pour your own AR 15 lower recivers, legaly even!



## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hey,
On the latest American firearms (or whatever they call shotgun news this week)
There is an article for a company selling a mold and resin to cast AR 15 lower receivers,

See ar15mold.com

They are not cheap $330 for a mold and enough resin to cast 5 -6 so not to expensive. then think for an additional 120 you can get enough resin to cast 5-6 more. 
Legally they are thinking of these in the category of 00% finished receivers (VS 80% finished) and as long as you don't sell them finished. they are legal.

I have a mold and bits headed my way. so I will be able to report further.

This produces a polymer lower that looks sturdy enough. they parked an bare receiver under a f350 and it survived. They are showing all sorts of bright colors. and a few like me who want them in either mud or OD, black. 
The uncolored resin casts white.
SO before you tell what an idiot I am. please see the website and watch a yahoo video or two.

The mold appears to be machined delrin with a number of internal blocks and pins to produce a workable receiver that then needs to be baked for a couple hours. after casting 5 minutes to initially set 70 minutes to remove the casting from mold to fully harden the mold maker has one that has fired 5,000 rounds. and they have just added a stainless brace that goes into the mold to reinforce the buffer tube rear takedown pin and the grip screw.
There are people who have added powdered aluminum and fiberglass cloth, on the flat plains. I just picked up some carbon fiber cloth and al powder to play with.

Of course it takes some attention to detail and care so its not idiot proof. you need to make sure to get all the bubbles out of the mix. that takes a combination of care in mixing and bumping and rocking the mold about while pouring.

The legalities make it seem, that if a group of guys (gun club) came together and each used the mold to make there own. you would be clear. ATF hasn't given them grief yet. A bit like the 80% castings being sold and these guys are working on improvements. and have been working on these since 2007.

I'm looking forward to marking mine with patriotic sayings and if its not obvious no serial numbers! 

Which you would need to ad along with obtaining a manufacturing license if you were to try and sell them

There is also supposed to be an AR10 308win receiver in the works as well.

Dutch 

and no its not April 1st or Friday the 13th


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

they were talking about these at league a few months ago we figured if we made 12 of them the price was down to about 60 dollars a piece 

we just needed to put the buy together , but since a friend was selling 50 dollar 100% lowers as other. the hassle of everyone finding the time to get together and make AR lowers from the kit never happened


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

For the price of the kit, you could buy 100% (albeit, serialized) lowers, but the subsequent ones you could make by buying resin only would be a little less than half price. 

Then again, a couple manufacturers have put out polymer ARs, and the results weren't so great. They just don't hold up anything like a 7075 one, even in semi-auto.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

a friend has the jig and router for these https://www.80-lower.com/80-lower-forged-black-fire-safe/
he has offered to let me borrow his jig and router to complete one , I just haven't gotten to it especially if another FFL friend keeps bringing in these Anderson 100% lowers as other for less than a 80%


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Its supposed to show up (the kit) tomorrow,we will see.
I imagine I will keep me busy for a bit


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hey,
Got the Kit Wednesday including 5 of the stainless braces shipped flat. More on that later not the great idea that seems! They failed to send the green color I had ordered and paid for and I had to rattle their cage to get them to realize it. No billing with the order either. SO the first three are brown not the OD I wanted.
SO after watching the yahoo videos, theirs and others. That's 90 percent of there documentation. For using by the way. they do send a single sheet with a lot of the times, so it is some use. The first one got a few grams to much part B and set up in 3 minutes causing it to not fill the buffer tube bridge. The second Looked good it took right at 6 minutes to gel (start to set) but broke in half trying to remove the trigger/ hammer internal block right thru the rear hammer pin! No mention on repairs, I tried it on a couple small splashes of resin off the plastic on the workbench I can tell you that crazy glue and gorilla glue won't work thought to try some resin from the 3 rd pour but it was hard before I remembered to try. As you can imagine there are a number of internal parts to the mold 13 if I remember right. these parts are either metal pins or made of a much softer white plastic that is very soft compared to the outer blocks. I've managed to damage one of the internal small parts the pin to make the bolt stop spring space trying to remove it. You are supposed to pull it out by threading a unbent paper clip thru a small hole on the base. the first time it pulled out Ok the second molding the paper clip pulled right thru it took a lot of fiddling around and damaged it further. I was able to get it back in enough to try a third mold ( I haven't tried to assemble it(the third apparently successful casting) yet, but I hope there is enough room to work) trying to pull it out the third time, put paid to it totaling it before it was removed! I've left them a message on the problem but they are not answering my messages since they cashed the check ( the credit card but much the same reaction) so here I am with a $400 (almost with an extra 1/2 ounce of color and shipping) $28.50 for UPS ground in what would fit in a USPS medium priority mail box!
SO here I am with a $400 lower receiver In a color I didn't want.
I get the feeling that these guys haven't been willing to do the thousand details that make up a successful product!
Oh the stainless braces are shipped flat and according to them they are doing a yahoo video on using them. Now I'm an old Bomb squad sergeant with all his fingers, an am considered pretty handy. So I figured how hard can it be! Two hours later and badly scarring the rear assembly pin internal mold part, I gave up! and did the first three attempts. without one.
The company appears Very short sighted. SO they want $62.50 for a small parts kit that includes one of the small pins that is so badly damaged. with $28.50 to ship it! 
So I sent them another message asking for a replacement with no reply yet!
The recommendation to car wax the metal pins is a good idea but I would ad wax all the internal plastic parts as well.
Now I can right off the first two as a learning curve (steep but eh) but now I have a mold I cannot even try casting a fourth attempt!
now I let number three age for 12 hours at room temp now I need to oven bake it for two hours at 135Degrees F to cure. then I can try to assemble the lower. That's next!

Ohh I forgot to tell you that you need some RTV sealant to seal the edges of the mold to minimize any leaks that might cause bubbles. Its not much but does add to the mess quite a bit.
Overall I cannot recommend this companies products to date there does seem some potential to the process they are selling. But with the lack of attention to detail of how you get regular people to use it.
This product should be at the Beta test stage were they are still working the process.
So I cannot recommend.


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## Lookin4GoodLife (Oct 14, 2013)

Thanks for all the details. I never try new stuff like that, because I don't want to go through the frustration. I appreciate folks who do though and let other's know their trials and tribulations.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

thanks for the update 

note to self order more Anderson 50 dollar lowers when they are available and skip this product


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

I just finished the 2 hour cure of the one I do have. so Plan on assembling it tonight will report on that!.

I can say the half dozen Andersons I've worked with all have been A+

Dutch


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hi Guys,
I got it assembled last night took some small fitting as you would suppose but not much.
Frankly looks odd attached to a flat black upper (If I can find the camera) I'll post a picture. its brown with some of the carbon fiber showing on the surface I ended up just unweaving the carbon fiber cloth and placing it all about and a piece of fiberglass cloth up around the buffer tube bridge.
it passes all the tests, so I hope to get to range latter today for test fire. the casting after the curing heat it seems much harder, almost metal hard makes it much more like it would work.
Dutch


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hi Guys.
Well put a 110 rounds thru it flawlessly, pleasantly surprised! Accuracy was very good as good as the upper on an Anderson lower. A trifle rough in appearance other than the obvious advantage (no serial no) workable I will see what I think of it at 1,000 and 5,000. The maker claims 5,000 rounds thru an earlier version.
Dutch


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hey,
I was out at the range with a couple guys who had 1/2 a dozen ar15's built on 80% lowers. they strongly recommended the jig they sell with them, and call it easy with a mill bit in a drill press. Nice, neat looking work I have to say!
Although I think I wouldn't leave them in brite silver finish, but that just me.


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## Earthworm77 (Jan 18, 2016)

I personally don't think I'd trust a polymer lower to anything other than 22lr. I am into AR's and have avoided anything polymer like the plague.


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hey,
I think your missing the point well a couple of points. One Big government has no was to remove firearms they don't track. is only one you can go the 80% and a jig and tools method (which frankly would have been cheaper and sorta wish I had gone that way) but this came bye before I talked to people with a half dozen they had working.
The second is that the lower on AR's really just get the parts to sort of fly along with each other. No great stress on them. This is a stiffer, tougher and harder than a normal plastic. I understand your lack of faith, the third reason I bought this gadget is that it seemed to be something new to learn and work with. And I'm having fun!
---- AR's are like potato chips you cannot just build one!
Dutch


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## Lookin4GoodLife (Oct 14, 2013)

Never hurts to explore all the options before the inevitable "if and when".


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Dutch 106,
Thank you for the information. I know I greatly appreciate it.
It will help me decide what route I want to go for the next one, since I'm new to the AR scene, but not guns.
I stayed away from them when prices were high and just got my 1st one in Jan.
I bought a Bushmaster complete lower for $140 and a no name complete upper for $360. All I had to do was add magazines (which I already own, at least a half dozen) and rear sight. It functions nicely and shoots great..

So now it's time to build a specialized shooter...


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hey,
I've got the first one at just under 500 rounds and have looked it over carefully and if anything it looks new and less messy inside than a normal metal one not sure if that's real or just the appearance from a lighter color. Now have 5 more cast in an OD color mix of green and brown coloring. I added fiberglass and carbon fiber in them all and they seem nice and stiff. 
The second one I buggered by flexing it when trying to unmold, I've tried a bunch of different glues to put it back together with no positive results. Any one have an idea I've used a special polypropylene glue I had on hand and all it did was goop up the outside.

Dutch


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## Lookin4GoodLife (Oct 14, 2013)

Dutch 106 said:


> The second one I buggered by flexing it when trying to unmold, I've tried a bunch of different glues to put it back together with no positive results.


If it was me, believe I'd just toss that one. Glad to hear the good result otherwise, though!


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Oh your right of course! but ya gota try various things and see what's works or not.
Interesting that I was able to get 7 lowers from the kit that's supposed to make 5. the first two used 6 ounces and the lowers weighed 4.3 when finished. so I was just mixing 4.5 to have minimal waste. Using a highly accurate scale.
Dutch


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## Earthworm77 (Jan 18, 2016)

Dutch 106 said:


> Hey,
> I think your missing the point well a couple of points. One Big government has no was to remove firearms they don't track. is only one you can go the 80% and a jig and tools method (which frankly would have been cheaper and sorta wish I had gone that way) but this came bye before I talked to people with a half dozen they had working.
> The second is that the lower on AR's really just get the parts to sort of fly along with each other. No great stress on them. This is a stiffer, tougher and harder than a normal plastic. I understand your lack of faith, the third reason I bought this gadget is that it seemed to be something new to learn and work with. And I'm having fun!
> ---- AR's are like potato chips you cannot just build one!
> Dutch



No, I'm not missing the point. I understand why it might be desirable to some. I'll start and say, if it works for you, then, go for it. Me personally and of law enforcement background with plenty of experience with this platform, and being somewhat of a gun snob.....I wouldn't want to rely on a polymer lower for several reasons. 

What concerns me about a polymer lower is this......stress on the location where the buffer tube screws into the lower and the immediate area where the bolt slams in the action. That buffer spring and the action cycling.....if it touches plastic, it wears it down.

Several manufacturers have tried....ATI Omni, Bushmaster Carbon and a few others are out there...there is a reason the market is not saturated with these things.....personally, I've looked at them, I've watched reviews on them, I've handled them.....the only reason to go out of ones way to get involved with this is, if they are trying to re arm a population where gov't has taken guns away. In an emergency.

But then it's like the guy who talks about having 30K rds off 5.56 in his safe.....as if he will actually live long enough to use it all if the SHTF. This is the same thing. 

I mean this totally respectfully, I just don't think it is a good idea. How many polymer guns would one really want to build to make the investment worth it? 

go look up ATI Omni lower reviews, it will change your mind. Reliability and safety are an issue.


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Earthworm you are of course entitled to your opinion!

I can play dueling CV's, you would probably be surprised at the result but I'll stifle myself (did you hear Green county wince at the bullet he dodged)

Here's the report you quoted and the differences are many! Please review and note! 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/12/19/gun-review-ati-omni-gen2-hybrid-polymer-ar15/

I've already put 750 rounds thru the first one, I made with no failures. other than a failure to feed caused by to light a load of BLC-2 (they didn't work in any of the other AR's either) Also what they are using is using a polymer upper as well and I have to agree on not being interested in that ( To many years of Engineering Field Service to think that's an answer that needs a polymer answer )

Before this project of building a cheap carbine came along my opinion of AR's was the one I developed from two combat tours in southeast Asia. (do I think Big O is a bigger jackass for his latest visit, YES!) using the M16a1 (poorly executed piece of polymer and alloy they were risking my life with! That if they had uses the actual Gene Stoner design as is rather than there misunderstanding of it would have been better. One of the primary reasons I tried this was to continue to learn and do new things. My prejudices probably would have me spouting very much the same. But as I said above if I was going to invest the same money on a different project. I'd probably go on the 80% aluminum lowers and a jig and tooling. I may if I get bored enough . I believe I spoke to this above. Now would I build a 600 yard match rifle on one. Hmm actually I might for the fun of it but I at least understand that the critical parts of such a rifle are the barrel, barrel extension and BCG. Well add the trigger group. which would most likely be a self contained group pinned in place. hell I may do it just to be a PITA and at least they work for me for under 400 I have 10+ lowers that will do what I need.SO I'm satisfied that this, lower I'm casting is very different than the one OMNI is so negative about. 

Dutch


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

yes I dodged a bullet , the group that was looking at buying this kit and making these may not posses your patience.

i can see how this could have resulted in all of use being out money and having very few working lowers 

I am thinking about the 80% aluminum

sadly my budget doesn't let me experiment as much as I would like , nor does time. 

if I could just get all these teenagers in my house to stop eating everything , that budget would look much better


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Thank you again Dutch for sharing your experience..

Let us know how it goes if you decide to turn one into a 600 yard gun.. I would be interested in hearing the results..

Many years ago I turn a Swedish Mauser (6.5x55) bolt action into a long range gun from a Woolco purchase.. It was a fun project.


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## Earthworm77 (Jan 18, 2016)

Dutch, I'm not trying to cramp your game here, I am concerned that this may not be all that safe.......but as I originally said...if it works for you, go for it. But if you are paying 330.00 for the kit to make 5 receivers, that is an average cost of (66.00 for 5) or (55.00 for 6) depending how many you are getting out of it. I guess the more you make, the cheaper it becomes but I couldn't imagine wanting to have a gaggle of polymer lowers lying around to make it even out or be in my favor cost wise. 

I live in Fl. this is a gun happy area. I personally can go on a local public gun trader site and find a stripped lower for 50 to 60 bucks and an 80% for cheaper. I think my best score was 40.00 for a stripped RRA lower a few years back. It has become slightly more difficult because of the current administration and gun grab paranoia but they are out there.

If you are going for cheap, as an example, Palmetto State Armory offers their Classic complete lower with basic M4 stock, parts kit, buffer, spring tube and lower for 159.00. I don't think I could build a stripped lower up for that. I have property in NC so I could pass Palmetto on my way to avoid transfer fees and adding 5.00 for a back ground check, which I totally understand is part of the appeal of the do it yourself. But at like 170.00 out the door plus a flea market upper for less than 300.00, one could put together a decent rifle for under 500.00.

Question about the M16a1, was the gun itself bad or the fact that I don't think they shipped cleaning kits for it the real issue?

I run a couple of piston guns and they run extremely clean compared to my guns with standard direct impingement systems of traditional AR's. They run much cooler too.

Anyway, good luck in your experiment.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Earthworm77 said:


> Dutch, I'm not trying to cramp your game here, I am concerned that this may not be all that safe.......but as I originally said...if it works for you, go for it. But if you are paying 330.00 for the kit to make 5 receivers, that is an average cost of (66.00 for 5) or (55.00 for 6) depending how many you are getting out of it. I guess the more you make, the cheaper it becomes but I couldn't imagine wanting to have a gaggle of polymer lowers lying around to make it even out or be in my favor cost wise.
> 
> I live in Fl. this is a gun happy area. I personally can go on a local public gun trader site and find a stripped lower for 50 to 60 bucks and an 80% for cheaper. I think my best score was 40.00 for a stripped RRA lower a few years back. It has become slightly more difficult because of the current administration and gun grab paranoia but they are out there.
> 
> ...



In Jan I picked up a complete Bushmaster lower for $140. This is the part that you have to register in PA, pay the extra taxes on etc... The wife bought a complete upper for $360.
So for $500 I ended up with a flattop AR.

I might have to buy a few more of those lowers if they are still available..


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Well I'm past 2500 rounds with the first one I cast and can find no apparent wear. This as good as the Anderson lowers I bought. 
I'm using one on the 300 blackout 10.5 inch mare leg( I have a problem calling anything this big a pistol whatever the legal description might be)
And have had no problems with it either. I'm using fairly warm loads in both cartriges. So you cannot call foul there.
And still have 20 plus spares running around, we will see if Hilary lets me build them up?
Dutch


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Status update;

First lower is past 2800 rounds as off now with no apparent wear or other problems. I figured out what the casting resin is they are charging way to much for 2 gallons cost $91 and cast at least 30 more lowers and a dozen fubars teaching myself better ways to do it.
And no I have idea what I will do with them. Will figuring out the right resin I cast one that is clear. Might work for a training aide?
Green County with reasonable care there is no reason you cannot get 50 plus cast using this mold It does take time and attention to detail to get it right. Most of the damage to the mold happens are you clear the lower after casting. Among other things its much better to let them sit at least 2 hours before unmolding rather than the 40 minutes to 1 hour, and there has been no problem with my end procedure leaving it 8 hours.

SO in the end so far roughly $410 for 50+ leaves you in the $8.10 ea. range. and per ATF you can sell them but only as a project completed down the road you cannot make them to sell! if that makes sense?
Dutch
And the next 50 would cost $1.20 ea well add another $20 for green and brown dye to make OD or $10 for black roughly so still cheap enough to scare the stink on Hillary and if I'm required to sell my guns to Hillary for $50 each I'll be ahead!


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Thank you for the update..

So with proper handling of the mold and patience the costs for the mold and supplies are worth it..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

yes thanks for the update , you can't make them for anyone else but what you can do is use the mold and sell it to the next guy for a bit less than you paid for it and so on and so on till the mold is unusable or have friends over and they can make them with your mold and you can supervise but they have to do the pour.

time to start stocking up on uppers ,BCG , LPK and furniture 

seen some good prices considering , not the same as black Friday 2015 but 20-30 more a gun to build than the best sale prices.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Earthworm77 said:


> No, I'm not missing the point. I understand why it might be desirable to some. I'll start and say, if it works for you, then, go for it. Me personally and of law enforcement background with plenty of experience with this platform, and being somewhat of a gun snob.....I wouldn't want to rely on a polymer lower for several reasons.
> 
> What concerns me about a polymer lower is this......stress on the location where the buffer tube screws into the lower and the immediate area where the bolt slams in the action. That buffer spring and the action cycling.....if it touches plastic, it wears it down.
> 
> ...



Bought a FMK poly lower at gun show for 35 bucks. Has a lifetime warranty. 6000 rounds and no more wear than my aluminum lowers. If your in law enforcement and don't trust poly you must have carried a wheel gun. Glock is not only the ugliest but also most reliable striker fired pistol on earth and it is a poly lower and trusted by dang near every law enforcement agency everywhere. 
The lowers don't have a ton of stress to begin with unless you are downright abusive and using it as every tool known to man. I'm shooting 68 grain pills at max load for hogs and have zero issues.


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