# government grants for digging a pond?



## GoatsRus

Has anyone heard of the government paying a portion of the expenses to have a pond dug on your property? Possible wildlife habitation ramifications etc... I had thought I heard the govt will fund part of the project due helping the wildlife but not sure if I dreamt it or what. Any know?


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## Cheribelle

Ask at your county extension office. Around here there used to be a program, something to do with controlling run-off, but I don't know any more. Oh, and I'm pretty sure you had to have it fenced off from your cattle, but could put a hyrant in the lower end of the damn to use for animal water.


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## gnat

I'll probly be banned for this but my guess would be you dreamed it, sounds like a wet dream fer sure.


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## Jay

Yes, but an 'engineer' will come out and study your land. He tells you where to put it, how deep, etc etc

It's not so much of: "I was thinking here would benefit me/the land most"....they say "no, over HERE is where it goes..." 
They are paying for most of it...so what they say goes. Don't think you can 'back out' once they have put money, and people on the job. (Unless you want to re-imburse them for their 'time and effort'.)

Of course, most anything with the government involved has to be over-analyzed, over done, and usually not cost-efficient.
Joel Salatin talks about this in one of his books....You Can Farm, I think.
Check into it...but I am sure there are lots of 'hoops' and paperwork that goes with it.


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## mwhit

I know here in NY if you reclaim (restore) a wetland you get a property tax break, but I don't think anyone pays for the work. I find it strange and rather depressing that you'd expect tax payers to build you a pond-- seems like if you want a pond you could hire a heavy equipment operator for a day or two and make one. JMO.

Michelle


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## minnikin1

No, not a dream. Call you soil and water district office. In an effort to restore wildlife habitat areas, they will cost-share. You do have to maintain it in a manner that will benefit wildlife - and if you have a park-like setting in mind, this may not be what you want. But you could check.


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## Cabin Fever

What you want to look into are "replacement wetlands." When ever development occurs that results in filling a wetland (shopping center, road, business, parking lot, etc), the developer is required to "replace" the wetland somewhere else. The replacement wetland generally has to be twice to four times larger than the one that was filled in. Often the developer will pay big money to a landowner to build the replacement wetland on his property to fulfill this obligation.

Do some web engine searches on the terms "wetland mitigation" and "wetland banking."


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## GoatsRus

Mwhit- what can I say, there is ALWAYS one in the bunch.

Thanks to everyone else. We have several acres of property that is in a flood plan and therefore, unusable, which is fine with me. I like the wildlife we have around us and want it to continue. We currently have goats, but are thinking seriously about getting out of the goat business (such as it is). We have a branch of a river flowing between our homestead and the afore mentioned flood area. I would like nothing better than to turn the pasture area into a large pond that would drain into the river. I'd also like to stock the pond with native fish. After I posted, I did some searching and found a TN landowner incentive program and a wildlife habitiat incentive program. I'll need to contact the local USDA service center in town.


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## Rowdy

I've dug several government paid for tanks around here, and it was through county extenstion office/soild and water conservation that people got them paid for. All of them I dug were basic round tanks with a dam, 18ft deep if I remember right.


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## MELOC

i thought about having a pond someday, but i really don't like the new regulations that claim every waterway and body of water as jurisdiction of the gov't. or whatever...you know what i mean.


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## Nette

Look here:

http://www.tn.nrcs.usda.gov/


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## texican

It's true. Here in Tx, the USDA folks pay a percentage (not sure how much)... they send out an engineer, do a study, and get started. I bypassed the process, because of a limitation on how many acre feet could be impounded. I sorta think I might have went over the limit a wee bit. That, and I didn't want my reservoir being beholden to the government... I'd sure as heck for there to be a drought, and Uncle Sammy decide that all the poor disadvantaged (grasshoppers) people should come out and fill their buckets with my water.


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## Guest123

mwhit said:


> I know here in NY if you reclaim (restore) a wetland you get a property tax break, but I don't think anyone pays for the work. I find it strange and rather depressing that you'd expect tax payers to build you a pond-- seems like if you want a pond you could hire a heavy equipment operator for a day or two and make one. JMO.
> 
> Michelle


I would much rather see a small farmer/homesteader take advantage of programs that already exist than some corporate farm. These programs are there, they have the money that will get spent anyway, so I hope you find one!


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## Sand Flat Bob

Suggest you contact your local land fill. I know that there are places that the Land fill will come out and dig a very deep pond about anywhere you want, but they get all the soil,they haul to the landfill to use for covering garbage. All you get out of it is a big hole, but it doesn't cost you anything and there are no future requirements like dealing with the Ag. Dept which always have lots of strings attached. 

Bob


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## Karenrbw

We have a program where you can get a grant to build a pond if you let them put a fire hydrant on the pond bank. Not really a big deal if you live like we do and are 1/2 mile from the nearest neighbors. We know if they are going to use our pond to fight a fire, it will be our fire.

Lowers your insurance rates too.


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## Old Vet

There are severial programs out their. Be sure you read the fine print and can abide by the rules or the Gov will own your land.


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## morrowsmowers

My DW has an aunt that owns about 15 acres near us. When they bought it, it had a swampy section. The Army Corp. of Engineers dug it out and made a lake. They have since maintained and enjoyed that lake, it is even fed into from a stocked fishing pond so friends and family get to fish and swim in her lake.

Ken in Glassboro, NJ


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## Beeman

More of the self sufficient, get government out of our lives, country living independance this nation was founded on!


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## Terri

I have heard of it, but don't you have to allow people to come in and fish?

The extension service would know: some states list the phone number under the state universities and some under government offices.


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## rosebudforglory

Jay said:


> Yes, but an 'engineer' will come out and study your land. He tells you where to put it, how deep, etc etc
> 
> It's not so much of: "I was thinking here would benefit me/the land most"....they say "no, over HERE is where it goes..."
> They are paying for most of it...so what they say goes. Don't think you can 'back out' once they have put money, and people on the job. (Unless you want to re-imburse them for their 'time and effort'.)
> 
> Of course, most anything with the government involved has to be over-analyzed, over done, and usually not cost-efficient.
> Joel Salatin talks about this in one of his books....You Can Farm, I think.
> Check into it...but I am sure there are lots of 'hoops' and paperwork that goes with it.


Well, anytime you get money for anything - whether a grant or a regular loan from a bank, etc, there is paperwork and hoops to jump through. And it should be so, I'd hate to think our taxpayer dollars are going to someone who can just walkup and say give me money with no reason as to why, who, where, and how it will be utilizrd or maintained in the future. I don't have a problem with the programs though. As our world becomes more plasticized and concrete filled, I like to see things being done that protect our air, water, wildlife and supports agriculture in general. And I would rather the little guy get help than the bug corporations who have accountants and lawyers to figure out loopholes to get the most they can. Now don't get me wrong - you can't kill the messenger - if the programs are there, you can't fault folks (big or little) from using them - I just wish the playing field was a little more level. If we keep covering the earth with ugly housing projects and strip malls - where we get food from? You have to remember many, if not all, of these programs are cost sharing and can be only a very small percentage of total project cost. Usually the higher percentages are for projects that help the community or general public in some way. An example, if you just want to put a shower house/bathroom on your private campground that you sometimes rent out for your own pockets, you won't get much help - if any. If you have a nonprofit agritourism farm that teaches folks about agriculture, raising livestock, promoting wildlife, and 100s of other types and the farm allows anyone to visit and camp - then you might get (in some states) as much as 40% cost sharing. Some really big agriculture states like TN for example have a lot of producer/farmer grants to help you with your farming projects - most are tied to working with state universities and allowing students to use as study projects like say "pasture improvement for sheep to decrease worm loads" or some other similar needed study. Many of these projects are also to help keep livestock (and resultant fecal run off) out of natural bodies of water (creeks, rivers, lakes) to prevent contamination further downstream or algae blooms which kill off fish and destroy public fishing boating etc areas not to mention contaminating our water supplies. Same for keeping agriculture fertilizer run off out of natural bodies of water. People sometimes forget (mosty those on city water) that everything they pour on the ground trickles down to the water table and everything down the sinks and toilets ends up in the rivers and to the oceans. Every creek, spring, river, along with ground water provides us in some way with drinking water at some point. So if taxpayer dollars help improve all these resources that are obviously on someone's private land - then I'm for helping. But there should be guidance and oversight though I will admit the government can tend to go overboard and make something minor into something major. It happens in all walks of life whether a small sole proprietorship business, small or large corporations, churches, youth organizations, associations, whatever....the more decision makers involved means a lot more issues and the government is no different. Think about a business you have yourself - you see a need, make the decision and done. Think of your church with 10 committees of 10-15 people each that report to a board of 20 who then have to report and get buy-in from the voting membership of say 500 - you can see how long a simple decision can be extended. Multiply that 500% or more with a large multistate corporation with levels of management- by 1000% for stock held companies and 10 times that for goverment.


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## rosebudforglory

Beeman said:


> More of the self sufficient, get government out of our lives, country living independance this nation was founded on!


Get the goverment out - independence it was founded on - where did you come from? A good portion of the land owned by folks here was originally granted to wealthy patrons of the King of England - land charters. Of course we should never forget, our country was founded on land we stole from native people and much of it was cleared and built on the backs of slave labor - mostly black and asian but also immigrants from other countries. . Once we had a formal country and government - 1000s of land grants were made to folks to move off the east coast northern cities and form farms, villages, towns and eventually states etc in other parts of the country. Most of these folks would have never had the money to buy land - it took everything they had to gather money to get supplies and travel from the northeast cities. This continued well after the civil war. Also - huge blocks of millions of acres (owned by government) were first public grazing lands with no fences and open to anyone who could "hold" the land and then became more controlled due to the increasing numbers of people. As more private land was fenced - and it was realized how the cattle barons were greatly profiting off government maintained land - the land became long term leased land. There are still huge parcels of millions of acres under these long term leases and many by the same families for a couple hundred years. Though they pay a fee - it is basically for free when you look at the leasing rates. However, much of the land was scrub and desert - now it has been cleared irrigated etc and is much more useable. Of couse, it was the government who put in all the dams that now provide that irrigation water. Anyone can put their name on the waiting list for these lands as their current leases expire (and aren't renewed) but it will a long wait as it doesn't happen often.

The government provided the cost to provide water, electrical and transportation services to these areas which allowed them to grow. Even though private companies were also involved like in the railways..the government was the big support system for everything from A-Z needed for people to live and prosper. Without the gov backing banks and loans no one would have the money they needed to create businesses. I know from our own family history - back in the depression years when cattle were starving and dying from drought out west, the government paid to have cattle shipped east and grazed to health on eastern/southern pastures. This helped the cattle industry, provided income to land owners here (who employed and provided land to work/live on to sharecroppers like our family) and once fattened, those cattle provided much needed meat for the east coast cities. People gripe about the gov but when disaster strikes - the first question is always " what and when is the government going to do something". Think of a simple snow storm - it is the gov who clears the streets so you can get to your jobs, who closes the schools your children attend to keep them safe, who either provides the electricity/backs the electric companies/or who regulates them that keep your homes warm. It is the government who runs the police departments and emergency services to protect your homes or gets your grandfather to the hospital who has fallen shoveling snow on the back patio. It is the gov who helps manage and regulate our food supplies so they keep moving (roads cleared, electrical on, etc) to our nearby stores and that helps prevent greedy businesses from upping the prices of basic foods just because of storms and disasters. Then think of the low price we pay for fuel in this country - why - because it is subsidized by who else, the government. Many developed countries pay as much as 4 times what we pay here. Look it up. That is why it is important to conserve fuels and try to use alternative supplies like wind and solar along with making cars and heating souces more efficient. Oil, gas and any natural supplies including water and maybe sometime in the future - air - are not never ending. At some point, we will run out and many areas are already out of water or they are one disaster from being out totally. Research the water problems out west - start with Nevada and LasVegas, then move to California. We have plenty of oceans but desalination plants would never keep up with our needs and the oceans will run out to if we keep depleting and polluting them. Global warming has decreased the polar ice cap and mountain snow melt that use to replenish rivers and ground water - as these snow melts decrease so does our water supplies. As water decreases, trees etc dies from no water - without green forests and wetlands - there goes our reasonably clean air. Everything is connected and usually it is the gov trying to back, promote, support, and protect the improvement needed by and for private individuals.

So my point is - we have been dependent on the government for centuries - without them we wouldn't have defeated the indians whose land it was to begin with, along with the Mexicans who owned much of the western territory along with the countries of France and Spain who also wanted this new land. Don't forget England who wanted it to remain under their control. Without the goverment we wouldn't have an America/USA. No one is an island - we need each other at all levels.


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## rosebudforglory

GoatsRus said:


> Has anyone heard of the government paying a portion of the expenses to have a pond dug on your property? Possible wildlife habitation ramifications etc... I had thought I heard the govt will fund part of the project due helping the wildlife but not sure if I dreamt it or what. Any know?


Yes there are along many other types of grants and conservation programs for farm and private land owners. Check with both the federal and your individual state forestry deptarments; state universities and extension services - they are a wealth of information. 

Here are some other sources of grant information: some are specific states but the same sort is most likely in your state too, and many states work the same way as they are also federal backed. some of the below are specific to pond development, others are all the various programs offered. If the links don't work, then do a search on the organization and then you will need to click around in the site to get to the program you are interested in. Hopefully these all work for you as I pulled them directly from the websites. 

http://www.privatelandownernetwork.org/Grant-and-Assistance-Programs/

https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs144p2_030362.pdf

www.fairfaxcounty.gov/nvswcd/newsle...nernetwork.org/Grant-and-Assistance-Programs/

https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detail/national/programs/?cid=stelprdb1048817
http://www.ncagr.gov/environmentalp...ultural Pond Development - FAQs (9-23-11).pdf

http://www.mnwcd.org/can-i-alter-my-wetland/

hhttps://www.southernstates.com/articles/usda-farming-grants.aspx

www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/conservation-programs/conservation-reserve-enhancement/index

https://www.uaex.edu/publications/PDF/fsa-9104.pdf

http://www.ncagr.gov/FarmingForestry.htm

http://www.dof.virginia.gov/services/index.htm


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## stanb999

This thread is ancient... Two of the posters your quoting having been on in more than 3 years.

your arguing with yourself


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## Bearfootfarm

stanb999 said:


> This thread is ancient... Two of the posters your quoting having been on in more than 3 years.
> 
> your arguing with yourself


I had a post deleted yesterday for pointing out the fact a "necrothread" had been revived.

I understand there's no rule against it, but many don't pay attention to the dates, and attempt to have conversations with people who are no longer here.


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## Jolly

As it stands today, the feds will still underwrite most of the cost of your farm pond, at least the way we have used it. Some rules:

1. It can only be a certain size. Anything bigger, you pay 100% of the cost. But, since the equipment is already there and cash money talks, it may not be as much more as you think.
2. The one we did mandates it is for wildlife use and not livestock use.
3. You can stock it. We put in catfish, a hybrid bream, a few bass and lots of minnows for predator food. Fed the catfish for the first couple of years.
4. You must allow limited public access. Keep your mouth shut about who helped pay for it, put the pond in a location not seen from the road and make 'em walk. We've never even had anybody ask to fish.
5. There is only so much money allocated and first come, first served. Work with your authorities about when papers need to be submitted and when monies are allocated. In this case, being towards the front of the line is definitely better.


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## bobp

The USDA's soil and water conversation district department of the NRCS (natural resources conservation service) is who to call.
It's basically a reimbursement program. I believe they'll pay 70% of the cost.
The first step will be fill out an application, they'll do a site visit, if it seems feasible and for an approved purpose, they'll send an engineer to survey and design the project.

If you enter into a contract you'll have a set amount of time to get it done, by the engineers specs. 

The whole point is to prevent folks from doing it wrong and causing erosion, and damage to water ways, and drinking water systems. The goal is for it use the lessons of the past to help the project be long lasting and not a blight on the environment and other people so to speak. 
An awful lot of ponds etc are built quick, and substandard, and thus fail and leak silt, mud, etc into the water system for long periods of time. 

My advice as someone who thought they could read up on it, determine soil type, develop a plan and the fail at pond building a couple of times, is do it right or don't do it.


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## bobp

The county NRCS office will be listed. It usually shares an office with the FSA. It is not part of the extension service. Although they do work together. 

And you can get the engineering study done and do the work yourself and not use the program. It's about prevention of erosion, ECT.... It couldn't hurt to get a study done.... That parts free.


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## Shelby Jan

mwhit said:


> I know here in NY if you reclaim (restore) a wetland you get a property tax break, but I don't think anyone pays for the work. I find it strange and rather depressing that you'd expect tax payers to build you a pond-- seems like if you want a pond you could hire a heavy equipment operator for a day or two and make one. JMO.
> 
> Michelle


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## Shelby Jan

From what I understand, it is to help things like wildlife...like geese when they migrate, etc. it helps government in someway. That is why you get a break. It is not that the government wants to beautify our land. It is the conservation. It must save them money in the long run; upkeep, etc. That is why they help defray the cost.


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## Wolf mom

2008!!
Any thread this old quoting rules and regs concerning water, ponds, etc. are most likely invalid. 
I think we really need to start looking at the dates and content of some of these resurrected threads.


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## SpentPenny

Might be a program (they used to pay part of building terraces for erosion control on crop land) but I would think long and hard before I got into bed with any part of government. You may discover they are like some relatives - once you let them in you may not get them out!


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