# creating a coil out of copper ...



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

We want to create a coiled piece of copper for distilling and purchased a 3 ft long (1/2 inch) copper pipe. We found some instructions on the net and followed those, i.e. heating a little, using sand and bending slowly. The 3 ft pipe "folded" no matter what we did. Can anyone either direct us to where we can find a piece of copper already coiled or guide us in coiling the copper pipe ourselves?


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## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

Why don't you ask your local a/c man or plumber. Both carry soft drawn copper tubing. It's a lot easier to work with than what you're trying to do.

.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Use a section of thinner walled, copper gas line that you purchase in coils. To use hard straight pipe, you would almost surely need a pope bending machine. You would have to get it very hit to bend around a wooden form. If you have torches and patience, you could do it that way; heat one foot or do at a time and slowly roll it onto a log or other form that cuts your size requirement.
ETA
Even with the coiled tubing, I sense you want a tighter coil than it is want to bend. You'll need to use torch and a form. What design of still are you building?


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

The safe bend radius is 2.5 times the O.D. of the tube so you need a mandrel of not less than 2.5 inches and preferably more to keep the soft roll copper from collapsing. Pack the copper tubing with fine sand and pinch both ends shut prior to bending.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

You can't bend copper pipe you can bend copper tubing. Gas line or AC line will work for you and I know Home Depot here sells it for plumbing.


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## rancher1913 (Dec 5, 2008)

copper pipe can be bent but you have to anneal it first and that is a precise heat and not easy for a layman to do. I have done lots building heat exchangers that need the strength on the runs but have to be bent to reverse the flow. second the just buying soft copper, its already coiled. watch the sizing sometimes its labeled inside diameter and sometimes its labeled outside diameter.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

rancher1913 said:


> copper pipe can be bent but you have to anneal it first and that is a precise heat and not easy for a layman to do. I have done lots building heat exchangers that need the strength on the runs but have to be bent to reverse the flow. second the just buying soft copper, its already coiled. watch the sizing sometimes its labeled inside diameter and sometimes its labeled outside diameter.


If being sold as plumbing, it should be sold as "nominal size" such as 1/2 inch OD (outside diameter) but in reality is larger. If it is being sold as medical gas tubing it should be sold by ID (inside diameter).

But that is only the way it is supposed to be, not reality.. So do as rancher says above..

Actually check the dimensions/sizes...


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thank you. Yes, what David was using is "pipe" as, even with all the research he did (manufacturors), the pictures and information he gleaned made no differenciation between "pipe" and "tube". Now that you have let him know the difference, I think he can find the copper tubing that might be bent into coils. 

The "design" David showed me is one with a large pan to set on a burner for liquid, a thermometer coming out of the top and a pipe coming out of the top. (This part he has already sautered together. The large pan is "aluminum", the thermometer goes deep into the pan without touching the bottom & the pipe coming out is copper.) Then with a copper elbow, he has a way to turn that copper pipe horizontally. Next comes the coils that will let the drippings go into another can. (He says this is a 1-step process that will need to be repeated by pouring the drippings back into the larger pot and distilling it again.) This is as far as he has gotten since his attempts to create the coils from the copper failed.

[David is creating extracts out of various herbs in hopes of selling them and bringing in a little money. Distilling will save him the cost of all the vodka needed to do this.]

Thanks for helping.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

you do not need a coil. 

get a 4-5' length of black pipe.
2"-3" diameter and threaded on both ends.
2 reducing tees, 2 reducing bushings, 2 nipples to fit the tees,your copper pipe,4 Threaded Street Adapters to match pipe in inside of bushing,silver solder. 

T's go on on both ends of pipe, nipples are to attach water hose in t reduction, bushings go on end of of t's the pipe is soldered to 2 of the street adapters which then screw into the reduction on bushings,the other 2 go in the reduction from the out side.

You just created a condenser. wich will funtion like the one here,









All in all I bet its cheaper and easier to build then a copper coil. that is with price of copper. also not as bulky.

Side notes only use silver solder. I'm not real sure about that aluminum, stainless or copper would be better bet IMO. You can extract essential oils with a still with out producing spirits.
You are in a area that the revenuers actively look for stills so be careful. 
All stills are Illegal with out proper permits. even essential oil stills.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

You can bend it around a form if you FILL it with sand.
Cap one end, fill until TOTALLY FULL, then cap the remaining end

You can use a piece of metal pipe as a form, and heat the tubing EXACTLY where you want it to bend. It will have to be nearly red hot to get good results

It's easiest if you can *turn the form* rather than trying to wrap the pipe.

*Take your time*, and don't *FORCE* it, and it can be done


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

You can find plans here. If all you want is a copper distiller with a water jacket instead of a coil, look at the "stillmaker" design. Very simple to put together, and operate.

Home Distillation of Alcohol (Homemade Alcohol to Drink)

Here are instructions for a stillmaker still.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8434485/Building-a-Home-Distillation-Apparatus


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

like Downhome and Vicker say,,,,reflux column.... the method youre using is very very very old. newer (more efficient) methods used reflux columns sometimes with a vacumn pump to control boiling point of the exact extract you're after.


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

ask for soft copper tube or pipe, it is in a roll to begin with,


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

The "reflux" and "vacuum" stills do not suit David's needs. He is going with the old fashion method of soft copper tubing and coils.

The legalities are good to know; however, David is not distilling anything with the purpsoe of creating an alcoholic/spirit "drinks". It is strictly for herbal extracts (and possibly a fuel substitute). Thus, he does not see how what he would be creating would be illegal. Is this correct?

He states all that is required on the automobiles is a slight adjustment on the carborator.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

I believe that it is illegal to own an still capable of holding more than a gallon of liquid, or something like that. Check the "legalities" section on the site in my first link. It is illegal to distill alcohol. But, as long as you aren't selling it, or giving it to anyone, you should be ok. Just keep quiet about it.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

You're not going to make fuel grade alcohol with a pot still. That will require the reflux or Vacum still.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Call the ATF. 

I did just to clarify for my own good. this was some time ago. though the law has not changed in my lifetime nor my grandfathers.

The Agent I spoke with being north of the Mason Dixon line was unfamiliar with such things.
His initial take was it was legal as long as you where not producing spirits.
After some prodding concerning such a simple answer, basically he said if there where no evidence to Illegal Alcohol production, I would be ok.
I've dealt with Law enforcement far too often in my short life. 
So I was put on hold for about 10 mins or so well he checked with supervisors and such.
he came back and did confirm that a still is indeed illegal.
Its all the evidence they need to charge you and pull you into court. Federal court.
Even fuel stills require the proper permits.
Its all about taxes.
If you wish to check with you local ATF which will more then likely be much more familiar with such matters, You need to contact the Enforcement side.
If you wish to do this legal it is a process and you need to contact the licensing division of the ATF. 
Other wise like I said exercise caution.
The feds do not differentiate. 

A condensers a condenser, you dont need the fractionating column. you only need to cool the alcohol vapor to condense it.
Coil or what I described. either will work just the same.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

vicker said:


> You're not going to make fuel grade alcohol with a pot still. That will require the reflux or Vacum still.


If you get it distilled well,(keeping it round about 40 degrees cooler then the boiling point of water) it would be usable.

even if you did produce 200 proof (pure) alcohol once it came into contact with atmosphere it would absorb moisture.

Ever seen any 200 proof for sale? 

the most I've ever seen is 190.

and the reason is atmospheric moisture.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Yep, I think 95% is as good as you get outside a vacum. You'll have to at least double it through a pot still, probably more to get close to that. 1st run will usually give you brandy strength, and the second somewhere in the neighborhood of 60%.


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## old school (Aug 26, 2012)

:buds::All this talk is making me thirsty:stirpot:


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

ifin ya ever do git around to makin fuel from a mash.... remember that there is more to it than adjusting the carburetor... alcohol contains no lubricant and eventually you can seize the engine yer running it in if ya do not add like 5% benzine [or similar ] for lubrication. In the late 70's Mario Andretti won the Indy 500 using alcohol and they had 5% mixed into that fuel.....

and to make fuel, ifin yer "beer" is 10% by volume then a 5 gallon bucket of mash is gonna yield only half a gallon of 100%, and a 55 gallon drum 5 gallons.... it takes a lot of sweetness to make enough beer to run yer rig..... and a lot of heat to distill it to git it there to where ya can use it.... it really is not feasible unless you got some deep pockets or "free" fuel to burn in yer boiler pot.....

Ifin yer gonna tincture herbal compounds with it, you definitely dont wanna be using an aluminum pot...

a "worm" with a water jacket is easier to control and ya can recirculate the water ifin ya use a big enough reservoir and pump it, but that agin uses energy of some sort to make it work..... it aint easy to scale things up or down to where it will work for ya... A friend tried making fuel 20 years back or so, and they ound their mash barrels even though they were using plastic went moldy and killed off the yeast and they lost their batches..... even though they thought they was being clean and tidy.... they was cutting 10 cord a week just to keep the fire burning under the still and they ended up losing money over it all.... YMMV

For educational purposes ive studied up on it a little, and medicinal use is a grey area in the law books..... but after this post i spect it will be covered too.

William
Idaho


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## rockhound (Sep 25, 2009)

Brewing supply places sell "wort chillers" which is a soft copper coil, already coiled. A 3 ft pipe would only make one coil 1 ft across any way. For making herbal extracts, glass is your best bet and is available on the net. It can be cleaned much better than metal between flavors.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

For fuel, the best crop to grow is sugar beets, followed by corn, both have problems in getting from field to tank unique to each crop, corn needs added sugar and has an oil that messes with the mash at times, and the sugar beets have to be processed several times to get to the locked in sugar and this is the crop that promotes molds growing that will kill your yeasts.... which is one reason you either have to "go big" or stay small for tincture purposes only.... lol though everyone has different findings, eventually you find what works the best for you and stick with it. I found wild plums offer me my best wines to distill into a "brandy" personally, for they are easiest to process, but require more sugar added than other fruits, i would then follow with blackberries but they require way to much work, both in picking and removal of seeds [not necessary for making fuel alcohol] and elderberry being the third, however since i no longer have a elderberry in my yard its harder to git into the mountains where they flourish and pick them at the proper time here.... but when i do i come home with a couple garbage cans full easy enough.

William
Idaho


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