# Looking for an LGD for multiple animals?



## Nicholie Olie (Dec 16, 2012)

Hey all, I live in Ohio and we have coyote problems around my area, so before buying animals i'd like to have an LGD lined up first. We plan to have cows, sheep, chickens and turkeys and needing to find a good LGD that could protect them all. I'm VERY knew to all this, so sorry if my question sounds a little silly. I'm unsure if certain breeds will work better with a variety of animals or if it doesn't matter? :hrm:

Thanks all


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

It may bond to the sheep but if a threat comes will be on it no matter what it is threatening. 

I have goats, guineas and chickens. The LGD could careless about the chickens and guineas but if the guineas scream the dogs will investigate it. They are like a warning system and the dogs know it. They don't really care about the birds and their wanderings for bugs. The only time they pay attention to them is if there is screaming or squawking. They do chase off coyotes and hawks but it is mostly for the goats benefit. 

I would not get any mixed with a non-LGD breed, you may find lots mixed with whatever herding dog on their property they did not bother to spay/neuter. Pass on them they are not a true LGD. You can get a mix of LGD I have Anatolian / Great Pyr mixes. 
I would not get one till you have some animals, I would not get one if your fencing will not keep a large dog in.


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## Nicholie Olie (Dec 16, 2012)

Alright great thanks! i guess it's time to start some research! And yeah, i heard lots can clear a fence, i'll make sure to get a sturdy/high fence.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

I would recommend 2 because a couple of coyotes can take advantage of one dog easily. One coyote entices the dog to chase it while the second kills your stock. A small pack can gang up on a single dog.


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## Barn Yarns (Oct 7, 2012)

my Maremma does watch out over my chickens... now. I had an issue with the ravens this past summer. But they cannot watch out for owls. 

are you planning on getting more than just one LGD? with all those animals in the plan, I think i would be. 

Do your research tho on what type of dog will fit in well with your place. i very quickly ruled out great pyrs as they venture out too far. I came down to Maremmas and Polish Tatras. but PTs are very here in the states. I found a very nice older Maremma for a reasonable price. I dont keep that many critters, so one is good for me. However, he is getting older and has had lyme disease in the past, so in the next year or so, I will be getting a Triple Cross from WI (Maremma, Polish Tatra, Spanish Ranch Mastiff) These dogs are bred for their ability to defend their stock. Ive been very impressed with them when I have visited a couple places that have this cross. 

I was also looking at the Anatolian, but had a concern with their ability to maintain a working attitude when its -40. Not that my sheep venture outside when its that cold either, but I wasnt real sure of them with their short coat. 

Ill second NOT getting any dog that is LGD crossed with a non LGD breed. those that are serious about their LGDs will tell you that if you end up with a cross like that, the litter is better off being destroyed. His lab got knocked up by my LGD before I got her fixed. I knew it was a bad mix, so went on with the surgery. 

When it comes to the GP's, you need to be careful as that is one breed that has been popularized and there are pet quality ones that dont guard as well as ones that do guard.


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## Nicholie Olie (Dec 16, 2012)

Barn Yarns said:


> my Maremma does watch out over my chickens... now. I had an issue with the ravens this past summer. But they cannot watch out for owls.
> 
> are you planning on getting more than just one LGD? with all those animals in the plan, I think i would be.
> 
> ...


That's one thing that concerned me! Lots have told me how great Great Pyrenees are... But i don't want to spend a $1,000 on a dog that wont be a good fit. I was also looking into the Spanish Mastiff but i have read of them being a companion dog also, though rare. The Hellenic Sheepdog might be another good choice. From what i read it's untouched with being anything other then a livestock dog.

That was going to be my second question. How many would i look into? Though there are a variety of animals... I don't plan on having a lot of them. I did read someone saying i keep adding until animals stopped being attacked.. Maybe 3 to start off with?


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## Barn Yarns (Oct 7, 2012)

the choice of how many LGDs you need depends on how many prey animals you have around. I think if you have too many lgds and not enough prey animals to protect against, they can become bored and can start chewing on your animals. I know that the 2 ladys that breed lgd's near me pretty much give a garuntee that the dog they sell you will protect your stock. they are willing to walk you thru the process and help out with any questions or concerns along the way. 

personally.... thats the kind of LGD breeder I would be looking for. I started my search by simply googling 'livestock guard dog' and came up with alot of very good information. 

Contact breeders and ask them questions about their breed. I think with anything (trucks, sewing machine, breeds of animals) folks find what they like and stick with it. They will tell you what they love about their item and if they are worth any salt, will tell you things that can be bad, or tell you what to watch out for. 

That being said.... the last 2 winters, my lgd wandered up to a mile away from home during the night. This winter he has been sticking close to the flock. I mostly mark this off to his aloofness and the fact that we didnt get off to a great start. when I get my next one, i will have the support and knowledge of these ladys (and several more) to help me along to make sure that I raise the new one right. 

Dogs are often delivered by others, so if you are finding a dog that looks like a good match from a ways away, there is a good chance that you can have the dog delivered. There is at least one gentleman that does alot of livestock delivering and very often a whole flock is sold and the sale includes the dog. 

back to your numbers question..... I have a small flock of 17 sheep, 2 horses and 21 chickens. During the summer I have upwards of 200 chickens. i have ONE lgd. i live in bear, wolf, coyote, bobcat, lynx, deer, ermine, fisher, pinemartin, crow, raven, eagle, owl, country. I have never lost an animal to a preditor.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Likewise, I've been searching for full-blood Anatolian Shephard; and here on the east coast they would ruin $1,000 easily.


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## Nicholie Olie (Dec 16, 2012)

motdaugrnds said:


> Likewise, I've been searching for full-blood Anatolian Shephard; and here on the east coast they would ruin $1,000 easily.


Yes! The only dog around here that are cheap are Maremma's but they're still around $600. But i've learned over the past years you get what you pay for. I don't mind spending more money on a dog that'll have less health problems. But that goes for any animal!



--

I also had no idea a LGD would start to bite the livestock if they ever became bored! Wow. I do plan to get more land then i need, so i can expand in the future. I guess i'll take the one person advice "You stop needing LGD's once your livestock stop being killed!" The coyotes make me nervous... i see 3-4 every night. Though the location i'm at right now is all agricultural it raises some red flags. There have also been talk of bears making their way into Ohio.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

Mine do not chew on the livestock if they are bored and they are for a lot of the day. Coyotes do travel in the daytime but are far more active at night so the dogs sleep a lot in the daytime. 

How many you get depends on how many animals and acres you have. Two acres, one dog will be plenty. For a Great Pyr that is not enough and they will wander, they also bark a lot! 

Maremmas I have no experience with, I do like Anatolians. I also like the Anatolian/Great Pyr mix. 

Since you will not have a lot of animals to start with and no experience with LGD, get one. Train it well. Also when it comes of age spay or neuter it. Dogs whose minds are on breeding IMO are not as effective. 

LGD have a bad habit of not coming when called, mine come because I trained them to, now if they are chasing a coyote I do not expect them to or bother to call them. Mine were also taught not to lick or put their mouths on any animal or person. So if they got bored and chewed on a goat baby they would be in so much trouble it is not funny. They do get toys and bones like any other dog would and learn basic obedience like my regular dogs, they are taught to walk on a leash without pulling, let me trim their nails and etc. 
There are times I want to strangle them both but for the most part they are good boys. 

The one thing I have not yet taught them is to recognize that I am wearing dark colors and going to work.../ stay away with your long white hair!  I keep a lint roller in my car for that lol.


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## CageFreeFamily (Jul 19, 2012)

I have never paid more than $400 for my Pyrs or Anatolians and have never had any health or instinct/behavior issues.

I think there's a big difference between breeders who are raising LGD and those who feel the need to make a big buck. Price is not necessarily an indication of genetic quality.

Most of the LGDs coming out of the Rockies and into TX are in the $250-$400 range.


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## JPiantedosi (Apr 23, 2012)

our sarplaninacs pretty much have run of the home place 60acres, and dont care if they are looking over the horse barn or the sheep nothing moves on our place that they don't know about it.

I have yet to see them chew on live stock, but when they get bored I have seen them carrying around an old busted saddle once and they will carry off anything they can until you teach them not to.

Jim


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## peteyfoozer (Nov 23, 2012)

Barn Yarns said:


> my Maremma does watch out over my chickens... now. I had an issue with the ravens this past summer. But they cannot watch out for owls.


Just wondering why your dog cannot watch out for owls? My Maremmas guard both up and down. There are several species of owls here on the ranch, including the great horned owl. My dogs do run them off. There is a large owl that lives in the upstairs of the barn just a couple hundred feet from our house who now makes it a point NOT to fly over the yard and corrals where our stock is...but then, I have 2 dogs which helps a lot, if one is busy elsewhere.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

More important than the breed is getting a dog from working parents who has ideally already been exposed to the types of animals you plan for it to guard. Part is instinct, part is socializing and part is training. 

To protect against strong coyote predation takes more than one dog. Coyotes will distract a single dog and then the others in the pack will go to work on the livestock.

You also should have good electric fences. Dogs combined with good fences are far more powerful protection than either alone.

We have a large pack. Our dogs guard sheep, pigs, chickens, ducks, geese and us. We have very high predator pressures, largely from coyotes but also from crows, ravens, hawks, bears, cougar and humans.

Mostly the dogs warn predators away through marking their territory with scent, sound and presence. LGDs bark and howl. They do it with reason. This is not the bored barking of the chained dog but functional territorial marking to keep other predators at bay. If you can't stand barking or your neighbors can't then you don't want to get working dogs. Ours only bark and howl to do their job, not at other times but that can be an issue in some places. Here, by law, LGDs are allowed to do their job.

Don't expect to just drop the dog in and have it go to work. It needs to rehome to your farm, bond with you and bond with the animals. You must become pack.

Good luck,

Cheers,

-Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/


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## peteyfoozer (Nov 23, 2012)

As was pointed out, the # of dogs depends on predator pressure not how much stock they guard. Our Maremmas guard chickens, sheep, goats and calves as well as grandkids when they come once a year. Most LGD's don't have much trouble guarding different species. Highland's advice is right on. You are wise to do the research first and insure success as these dogs are very different from any other genre and don't think, or behave like other dogs. They are invaluable to have though.


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## Sanza (Sep 8, 2008)

My maremma is very good at guarding the yard and is super with the smallest grandkids too. He just sits and watches the house, waiting when any of the kids are over. He doesn't wander either.


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## Nicholie Olie (Dec 16, 2012)

Sanza said:


> My maremma is very good at guarding the yard and is super with the smallest grandkids too. He just sits and watches the house, waiting when any of the kids are over. He doesn't wander either.


He is very beautiful. Maremma was one of my top LGD's to look into. As i heard they stay "with the herd" rather then wandering like Anatolian's do.


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## Nicholie Olie (Dec 16, 2012)

Has anyone owned a Spanish Mastiff?


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Let me add most any dog can be taught to guard your animals, depending on the situation. My shephard/lab mix was the best goat/fowl guard ever and my full-blood lab is doing a fine job too. However, my little place is only 6 acres with a good parameter fencing. In your case, talking with your neighbors to find out how they have their stock protected would be wise.

I might add, your fencing does not only need to be tall enough. It needs to be solid enough to the ground too. (Some dogs go under instead of over a fence.)


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## MonsterMalak (Apr 15, 2011)

Although I raise Kangals and Boz, I would reccomend you getting a Pyrenees or Maremma, or a cross of them. You are new to the LGD world, and the last two mentioned breeds are usually far easier to take care of, and prefectly capable of taking care of your farm.
You want your first experience to be a success for both you and your LGD.

Good Luck!!!


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## jordan (Nov 29, 2006)

Nicholie Olie said:


> Has anyone owned a Spanish Mastiff?


I've had them for 10 years and can't imagine ever having anything else! They are extremely intelligent and stable in temperament (if bred well). I also raise Nigerian Dwarf goats and the dogs do so well with them even tho the goats are so small in comparison (especially the kids!). They bond strongly to their people and livestock and are not as prone to wander as the Great Pyr. I have 4 dogs that live full time with the goats, one that rotates in and out of the pasture and another that is primarily a family guard (but is still cleared with the livestock should I choose to move her back out). From a historical perspective as well as my own experience with them over the years, they make a phenomenal all purpose farm dog. 
Let me know if you have any specific questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them!
Lois


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## Hespa (Sep 28, 2011)

We are looking for a pet/companion farm dog as early as this Spring unless we lose our Bernese before then. I have a short list of possible breeds. We are looking for a dog that barks when people come, doesn't bite first, likes being with us when we are out and about on the farm and has good health and a decent lifespan. We don't have problems with four-legged predators just the two-legged ones. Do you think the Spanish Mastiff would be a good candidate for us?


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

Nicholie Olie said:


> He is very beautiful. Maremma was one of my top LGD's to look into. As i heard they stay "with the herd" rather then wandering like Anatolian's do.


Pyrs wander far more then Anatolians. My dogs are half Ana half Pyr and one wanders like a Pyr the other stays home. The one that looks and wanders like a Pyr also barks like one. I love him but I wish he would shut up and stay home. He goes and looks for coyotes, the other waits for them to yip or run on by. 

You can see some pictures of my boys in the other thread Would love to see pictures your GP. 

Anatolians can be hard headed, so you have to be a firm and consistent dog owner. My neighbor had one that dog never listened to him, I would order him to go home and he did.


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## RedRidge (Jan 28, 2013)

motdaugrnds said:


> Let me add most any dog can be taught to guard your animals, depending on the situation.
> 
> I am going to respectfully disagree with this statement.
> A good lgd never "has" to be taught anything. They simply have the instinct to protect. Now that's not to say some basic respect and rules are important, but you can't teach the protection part.
> ...


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## RedRidge (Jan 28, 2013)

That previous post should have read "it's not that basic rules an respect ARE NOT important"

Sorry... I missed that in my preview... Need another cup of coffee.


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