# Raisng a guardinan dog for chickens



## jenG (Aug 20, 2011)

Hi there all!
I have a few questions and just wondering if anyone has attempted this with any success.
We have a young(1 yr) Great Pyrenees who had 3 puppies. The dad is Anatolian Shepard/ Great Pyrenees cross. We have goats and chickens but we have had problems with the mother dog prior to her having pups and a couple times since she gave birth of attempting to kill chickens sometimes succeeding. She seems to play with them to death. The male will not hurt any of the animals. We were thinking that if we raise one of the pups with the chickens that we could potentially have a great chicken guardian. Any thoughts??
Thank you,
Jen


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

This is just my opinion, but I am not sure that you really need to take a pup and keep it isolated with chickens in order to have it guard them ( I think you could have a very unsocialized pup...)... Check out this website, it has a very interesting LGD philosophy and talks about caring/ nuturing for the DOG part of your livestock guardian-- and still get a good guardian...

http://www.lgdnevada.com/For_Novice_LGD_Owners.html


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

First off, I promise I'm not bashing you.
But she is very young for a Pyr, to be a mother. But things do happen.
She is only a year old, as far as Pyrs go, she is still a puppy herself. They are not grown until about 2 years old. 
Our two Pyrs are reasonably trustworthy with our birds, but they are 19 months old. They mostly live with cattle right now, and will have goat friends coming this Spring.
We only let them in the coop area under strict supervision. They just like to play a bit to much still, and they play rough!
Your Momma dog needs time to finish growing up, as soon as she is an adult, she will most likely be just fine with the birds herself.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Oh BTW, our house dogs (including our formerly chicken killing giant schnauzer) now do such a great job guarding our property - we have NEVER had predator losses in 2 years and the chickens free range and put themselves away in their coop at night. The dogs roam freely in the pasture and do not molest them.


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## jenG (Aug 20, 2011)

hercsmama said:


> First off, I promise I'm not bashing you.
> But she is very young for a Pyr, to be a mother. But things do happen.
> She is only a year old, as far as Pyrs go, she is still a puppy herself. They are not grown until about 2 years old.
> Our two Pyrs are reasonably trustworthy with our birds, but they are 19 months old. They mostly live with cattle right now, and will have goat friends coming this Spring.
> ...


We realized that she was a bit young to be having a litter and we didn't intend for them to mate but they did and we are now much wiser as we are new to this farming life. Learning with every mistake...:ashamed:
The chickens are free range or at least we try for them to be but after a loss we tend to keep them put up behind poultry netting.


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

I've failed at pyr training. He was grown when the chickens came. I have had some success with akbash training. We take him out every single time we do chicken chores. He goes with and at this point he's pretty bored with them all. We took him out from the minute we got him. In the beginning we had a spray bottle with vinegar and water. At this point we don't need to as he responds to verbal commands really well. He's 1 and we don't leave him out alone when we aren't home. Not quite trustworthy yet. Everyone is right in saying 2 is the age. 2 was the magic age for our pyr. Settled right into being the perfect (except around chickens) dog he is now. Ducks are our biggest problem. They like to run and quack and flap around like we are stabbing them if we get even mildly too close. It's almost irresistible for our poor akbash not to chase them.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I have had problems with every dog I've had on this homestead; and by that I mean I have had to spend extra time teaching them how to behave around the animals, especially birds. That being said, each and every one turned out to be so protective that they would even jump into the air trying to catch any flying predators getting near the chickens/geese/guineas.

The only exception is the LGD I have now, i.e. Valentina my little Karakachan. She was brought to our place at a very young age and, though she has never shown a prey drive, I have had to let her know at times the birds are not to be played with. This, however, was just her need to be a pup and not any genetic drive to do harm.


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## jenG (Aug 20, 2011)

crazyfarm said:


> I've failed at pyr training. He was grown when the chickens came. I have had some success with akbash training. We take him out every single time we do chicken chores. He goes with and at this point he's pretty bored with them all. We took him out from the minute we got him. In the beginning we had a spray bottle with vinegar and water. At this point we don't need to as he responds to verbal commands really well. He's 1 and we don't leave him out alone when we aren't home. Not quite trustworthy yet. Everyone is right in saying 2 is the age. 2 was the magic age for our pyr. Settled right into being the perfect (except around chickens) dog he is now. Ducks are our biggest problem. They like to run and quack and flap around like we are stabbing them if we get even mildly too close. It's almost irresistible for our poor akbash not to chase them.


Great tip about the vinegar/water. I remember that was a great tool when we were training our Labradoodle (our city dog, before we moved out here) Thank you!


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

I've got a GP/chow mix that is doing great at 8 months and 20 pounds heavier than his mother. Caught the neighbors GP doing the deed. He simply put his nose under the fence raised it up and walked right under. He came back the day after they were born.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

Pups and chickens don't mix well very often. Folks often think that if they have a LGD that it will automatically want to guard something. You can get an LGD to be great with poultry but it takes training. And a young pup wants to play...chickens are play-things. I have a 4 year old anatolian that will stay with my hens, sleep in the field with them scratching and peaking around her. On the other hand, I just laid the law down to my 11 month old GP/Border Collie cross. He hasn't killed a chicken yet but he chases. He has been banished to his Kennel for the rest of the day. (my version of time-out):nono: I won't trust him until he is at least 2


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## jenG (Aug 20, 2011)

hiddensprings said:


> Pups and chickens don't mix well very often. Folks often think that if they have a LGD that it will automatically want to guard something. You can get an LGD to be great with poultry but it takes training. And a young pup wants to play...chickens are play-things. I have a 4 year old anatolian that will stay with my hens, sleep in the field with them scratching and peaking around her. On the other hand, I just laid the law down to my 11 month old GP/Border Collie cross. He hasn't killed a chicken yet but he chases. He has been banished to his Kennel for the rest of the day. (my version of time-out):nono: I won't trust him until he is at least 2


How do you train your LGD to guard your flock? That's the real nuts and bolts I guess I need to know. 
We are new to all these things and Both of our LGD's are a year old so they still have some maturing to do BUT our male (Duke)has always been much more of the night watchman/patroller and a gentle giant who I trust. Daisy the female is defiantly more the daytime alert one but I don't trust her with the chickens she is great with the goats but not birds. 


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

First and foremost, educate yourself on the breed. Not all true Lgd's are the same in the way that they guard.
Scroll through these links, there is some really good information here, 
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/li...ls/401804-links-lgds-other-guard-animals.html
Down the page a bit is some awesome stuff on Pyr's.
I can tell you how we have been working with ours, but it may not be the same as others. Your dogs are in a unique situation, as you and your family have your own personalities, as do your dogs.
Understanding that Pyr's are very independent thinkers, and accepting that, is a big first step in learning how to train "Your" dogs.
I really wish some of the Old timers on this forum, who posted the links at the top were still around. As we are still learning here at my place as well, and they really knew their stuff as far as this type of dog was concerned.....:bored:
You're not dealing with a "normal" dog, and that is the most important thing to remember..


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

They certainly do think for themselves! We wanted to train ours to guard our animals but he won't. He jumps the fence and guards the neighbors cows like a boss though. He chose those cows.... lol 


hercsmama said:


> First and foremost, educate yourself on the breed. Not all true Lgd's are the same in the way that they guard.
> Scroll through these links, there is some really good information here,
> http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/li...ls/401804-links-lgds-other-guard-animals.html
> Down the page a bit is some awesome stuff on Pyr's.
> ...


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Just wanted to give some moral support- hang in there, and yeah the large breeds are truly pups til age 2...
Still trying to figure out what people mean by LGDs not being like "regular dogs " myself (got my first pup when I was 4 .... and that was over 40 years ago..)..
What do people mean by that am truly confused- do they mean " not handler dependent" ? own agenda and stubborn?
Our GreatPyr - Antalolian pup at 6 months has found his voice (loud bark and def alerts and guards)-- he has a really nice Off switch (as in, in puppy class, he just turned himself off and took a nap, until he figured out what was expected of him)- and yes he does things his own way, you have to get his attention, and it takes a little more.. but he is not nearly as stubborn as my Giant Schnauzer and is also submissive to people, whereas she is aggressive to them....
He will very occasionally chase a chicken (just for a bit, as he knows he is not supposed to) but its in a puppy way not a Kill way like the schnauzer used to...
I find promising that when the goats are mingling with me, he sniffs them in a friendly way, very at ease and not stimulated by them at all--
(He was born in a goat pen to working LGD parents)....


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## GreenMomma (Jun 3, 2008)

Our GP is exactly what the books and breeders/farmers said she would be. She just fits the typical breed expectations to a T... We took our time and bought from a breeder that had working parents, guarding the same animals we had. And chickens were among those. 

She lived with the goats from the first day she came home, even sleeping in a big crate so the goats couldn't beat her up at night. Just in case, lol. I've always had house dogs so it was hard to do what was recommended, but she did just fine.

We were cautioned that she should not be left unattended with chickens until she was 18 months old, but some of our chickens can get into our goat pen. Since she's lived in that goat pen since day one, we decided that those chickens had better be fast. She went through a stage for a couple weeks where she would give chase, but the chickens just flew back out of the goat pen. Very little drama and she never wanted them very badly, just wanted to play.

Now the chickens can walk over the top of her and she doesn't care. The only thing they can't do is eat out of her dish. 

She automatically believes that any animals that is "mine" is also hers. She will protect it with everything in her being and keeps the bears and mountain lions at bay already (she just turned 1). When we have borrowed goat bucks, she barks at them like she does every animal that doesn't belong to me, until I tell her that "it's mine". Then she loves them until they leave, and whines for them a bit when they're being loaded up on the trailer.

She barked at the 3 new chickens we brought home last time. I told her "it's ok, they're mine" and she immediately stopped. I really do think that she loves them all like her pack, pack expectations are just a lot different with this breed than any other I've ever had. 

They probably all settle in at a little bit of a different age and it might also depend on their handling and exposure to everything. I didn't know what I was doing at ALL with LGD's so we just read the books, did what the breeder said and took the vet's advice. The only time she's left our property was to visit the vet to get fixed and all of her shots. 

She's very sweet and submissive to people, as long as we tell her they're ok. Even small children, though she's gigantic. We brought home a heeler puppy and she lays all the way down and turns her head over to let the pup know that she won't hurt her. I think the pup's body is the size of the GP's face!

All that said just to share that I think it *can* work to have them guard chickens, even if you can't do everything just right. But I don't know how it works out with any dog that has actually killed chickens- it may be that you can never trust them unsupervised with that type of animal again. If it is just that she accidentally killed them while playing too rough, that is one thing. If she killed them with intent, that may be another beast entirely.


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## Gaduchman (Nov 15, 2013)

I've got six barncats that have taken out one old sickly hen and a worthless rooster - far fewer chickens than my Great Pyr had killed.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

The "training" of any dog to guard chickens actually depends on how much time you can give it and how watchful you are when that dog is out of your sight. Catching the dog in the act is the best as the act can then be associated with your method of correction. Catching the dog when it "starts" thinking about bothering a fowl is real good too; yet it takes a great deal of sensitivity on your part and a real understanding of your dog. 

My grandmother use to talk of tying a chicken the dog killed around the dog's neck; one of my friends talks of leaving the dead chicken where it was killed and correcting the dog each time it even looks in that direction. Some dogs are quicker to get the message than others. One of my dogs needed a good lashing! (Oh yes, I found him chewing on a goose for the 2nd time in two days; and I took a piece of water hose to him while David held that goose near him and let her peck his nose. That was probably more painful for me than him; but it did the trick.) My little Karakachan (still a pup at 8 months of age) has eaten a keet ONCE and has "eyed" a flock of baby chickens running loose with their mother several times; however, a rough sounding "uh uh" from me or David and she chooses something else to focus her attention on.

Hope these experiences help with your situation.


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