# Low oil prices



## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Now around $80/bbl and falling. This will have significant effects on the world economy. Russia will be stressed, money to the oil countries of the middle east dry up to barely cover bribes, and there may be a temporary freeing of money to boost the Christmas season spending. All of the above work to the advantage of the U.S.

Your comments?


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## sss3 (Jul 15, 2007)

Every time something happens that takes our minds off the state of things, I wonder what's really going on. Is it because it's an election year; or what?


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Good comment. I'm wondering myself if it is a prop for the economy in some ways.


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## FeralFemale (Apr 10, 2006)

If the price per barrel goes too low, fracking will become too expensive to be worthwhile. There is a debate on what exactly that price is, but the numbers I've been hearing range from $50 to $80 a barrel. There are a lot of jobs in and connected to that industry.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

If it is some conspiracy to prop up the economy what's the down side. High energy prices are like a hidden tax on almost everyone. Besides causing higher prices for every consumer good that needs transportation everyone that doesn't walk to work will have more money in their pocket at the end of each week. Home heating oil prices have dropped which will also have a significant impact on household budgets, especially in the northeast. For a large segment of the population that's money that won't go into a savings account but will go directly back into the economy at stores and restaurants. I can say from having run a small town retail store from 2002-11 that gas prices have a huge affect on people's spending patterns. It's an effect that will ripple through the economy more quickly and with more impact that any govt program.

On a world level it will mean more economic stress on Russia which will cause the true power brokers in charge to put pressure on Putin to dial back, at least temporarily. It's likely Iran will also feel the pinch and be more amenable to modifying their behavior. It may even cost groups like ISIS some of the money they're making from oil sales. All positives. 

It may impact further expansion in frakking here in the US and cause the shutdown of some marginal operations and wells. But this always happens during the booms and busts of oil prices. I've read that most of the oil patch can still make money in the $80-$85/bbl range that oil is currently at so I don't expect much immediate impact. It may limit further expansion for a while but the costs of frakking and directional drilling have already been dropping and were expected to continue to do so anyway.

Anecdotally, the drop in gas prices is saving me $7/ week from early this year and my wife about $25/wk. It'll have a big impact on our household budget.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/20...ale-boom-s-quirks-at-the-pump.html?cmpid=yhoo

Maybe it is just another left wing, liberal plot to stick not to the rich.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Harry Chickpea said:


> Good comment. I'm wondering myself if it is a prop for the economy in some ways.


Oil prices are set on the world market, not the U.S. market.

It's not always just about us.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Harry Chickpea said:


> Good comment. I'm wondering myself if it is a prop for the economy in some ways.


It just may one reason it is coming down is the Shale oil in the Dakotas is putting more oil in the market place. So I hope prices don't go down too much further to stop exploration and opening more wells up. The advancement of fracing and horizontal drilling has also helped to put more oil on the market place. We THE USA are just about to become THE oil producing country ALL thanks to fracing and other cool technologies that have come on board in the last few years. 
So oil prices better not drop any more as wells are being shut down. Not Good.


> Slumping oil prices are putting pressure on U.S. drillers.
> 
> The number of active rigs drilling for oil and gas fell by their most in two months, according to the latest data from oil services firm Baker Hughes. There were 19 oil rigs that were removed from operation as of Oct. 17, compared to the prior week. There are now 1,590 active oil rigs, the lowest level in six weeks.


http://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Low-Oil-Prices-Hurting-U.S.-Shale-Operations.html


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

Don't be fooled into thinking the price of oil is for, by, or of US politics. Our system has been cast for decades. It is more about creating the right kind of instability in the Middle East.

On a related note, what's the deal with ISIS selling oil? Who would buy it? I'm not. The ol' BS meter is pegged.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Awnry Abe said:


> Don't be fooled into thinking the price of oil is for, by, or of US politics. Our system has been cast for decades. It is more about creating the right kind of instability in the Middle East.
> 
> On a related note, what's the deal with ISIS selling oil? Who would buy it? I'm not. The ol' BS meter is pegged.


From what I've read they're trucking it across the border to Turkey, at cut rate prices. And yes, we're all buying it once it hits the international market.


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## Glade Runner (Aug 1, 2013)

This may be to hurt the Russians or reduce US shale development. It seems like mostly Saudi jaw boning driving the price down with no actual action on their part. They need about $90 a barrel to cover their cost of government so I don't expect this to last long.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

FeralFemale said:


> If the price per barrel goes too low, fracking will become too expensive to be worthwhile.


That's not going to happen. It's the production from fracking that's driving the price down. Fracking production is in the driver's seat right now.

I expect oil prices to stay low for the foreseeable future (the next few years).


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

The price of gas should hit rock bottom just about Christmas and stay low after that.
That's my ETA on finishing my wood powered truck.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

AmericanStand said:


> The price of gas should hit rock bottom just about Christmas and stay low after that.
> That's my ETA on finishing my wood powered truck.


Thank you! And, I believe you. My whole life, diesel was always cheaper than gas. It did it's flip flop within weeks of us buying a diesel pickup...


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Yep, I remember distinctly the day gas went over $2/gal. It's the day I bought my Suburban.


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## cedarvalley (Feb 28, 2012)

Here's a good article on why oil prices fell, and future pricing forecasts. It inferred that OPEC was protecting its market share, and testing at what price, more costly US production was profitable at.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-29/why-oil-prices-went-down-so-far-so-fast.html


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

FeralFemale said:


> If the price per barrel goes too low, fracking will become too expensive to be worthwhile. There is a debate on what exactly that price is, but the numbers I've been hearing range from $50 to $80 a barrel. There are a lot of jobs in and connected to that industry.


 ................For the present the drilling will continue , daily rental for drilling rigs will or should decrease because some producers will cut their rigs loose when the well is completed . The drilling in south tx in the Haynesville shale may see a small decrease in the rig count . 
................Most savy lessee(s) include a clause in their lease that requires the producer to start drilling before the end of the lease term or they lose their lease . So , the producer drills atleast one well so the lease is 'held' by production . As far as the effects on fracking , producers keep drilling wells , they drill , set pipe , cement , perforate , and log the well , then they Wait to frac until the price comes back up . 
................Those companies with sufficient capital resources and lots of undrilled leases will actually INcrease their drilling activity because their costs of drilling decrease when the market price per barrel drops as it has recently .


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Nevada said:


> That's not going to happen. It's the production from fracking that's driving the price down. Fracking production is in the driver's seat right now.
> 
> I expect oil prices to stay low for the foreseeable future (the next few years).


BUMMERS your predictions have been so off..spring came and went and still no joy in medical insurance or health care. And Q4 no more. So, gas prices will most likely rebound with avenging.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

The other aspect is the continued shale plays for natural gas. This has changed somewhat with drillers concentrating on areas that produce along with natural gas others like propane. A stripper plant nearby that was recently completed is shipping a large number of truck loads of propane daily.

With the oncoming shutdown of coal fired plants the replacements, which can be up and running in two years, will be fueled by natural gas. 

In the near future exports of CNG will climb as export facilities are completed. That means driiling of new natural gas wells will continue. A byproduct is oil. That means more, albeit small, sources will be produced with the side effect of dumping more oil on the market. The oil has to removed meaning it will go to market no matter what the price in order to continue producing natural gas.

My guess is that natural gas prices will increase in the future but oil prices will slowly drop or stagnate at lower levels. This country is on a path to be a major exporter of energy in one form or another.

The bright spot is lower cash flow into the Middle East and the potential to reduce state or private funding of terrorism. We can expect that regime change may also occur. While I doubt that will happen in Russia, Putin understands he is on an "energy" leash. His dreams of empire look short-lived.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

AmericanStand said:


> The price of gas should hit rock bottom just about Christmas and stay low after that.
> That's my ETA on finishing my wood powered truck.


LOL 

DW just purchased her _dream_ sports car that averages 14MPG. :facepalm:

I figured gas would start heading to $5 gal!


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

plowjockey said:


> LOL
> 
> DW just purchased her _dream_ sports car that averages 14MPG. :facepalm:
> 
> I figured gas would start heading to $5 gal!


It will just give it time :sing: Thing with some of us and our cars is we have them because that is what we want and at this time in life we don't care what gas cost . I got the wants for a Mustang Cobra ,that would give us three Mustangs :sing: Even at 63 years old I like a little zip under the hood


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

Sawmill Jim said:


> It will just give it time :sing: Thing with some of us and our cars is we have them because that is what we want and at this time in life we don't care what gas cost . I got the wants for a Mustang Cobra ,that would give us three Mustangs :sing: Even at 63 years old I like a little zip under the hood


 .............I purchased a brand new 2012 Mustang GT , solid black , 412 Hp with 6 speed manual ! Was faster than a car load of illegals in a 57 Chevy with a rocket in the trunk . I loved that car but my grits was simply too close to the pavement , I was constantly dodging big rig recaps as they would have really torn up the under carriage had I ran over one . Traded it for 2011 F150 new supercrew with 5.0 . I love my pickup , more than I loved that mustang . , fordy


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## sss3 (Jul 15, 2007)

News tonight, NC is raising tax on fuel; effective 1/15. They say; because fuel prices are so low. How can they know that far ahead what gas prices will be? To get a tax increase.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Relax, folks. Saudis and most of the middle east have very low extraction costs. They are flooding the market in order to put the squeeze on the US producers who have costs in the $50 per bbl range. As soon as they've driven some of those fellows out of the business they will jack up the prices again. 

Oil sands extraction costs are said to be around $75 per bbl. One new company says it can produce, with new technology, for around $38 per barrel. That is still higher than the Arabs' cost. 

Danged A-rabs.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Sandra Spiess said:


> News tonight, NC is raising tax on fuel; effective 1/15. They say; because fuel prices are so low. How can they know that far ahead what gas prices will be? To get a tax increase.


The gas is taxed by the gallon not the price per gallon . Its got to be more effeceint (sp) cars.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Under $50 a barrel. I expect much of the oilfield to start laying off soon. but that's the boom and bust of the oilfield.

East of the RockiesPriceChangeGvty
Adj*Altamont Yellow Wax38.91(1.90)Rocky Mountain Condensate43.91(1.90)Southwest Wyoming Sweet48.66(1.90)Uinta Basin Black Wax37.91(1.90)Western Colorado44.91(1.90)Note: Prices in $/bbl


http://crudemarketing.chevron.com/posted_pricing_daily.asp


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Crud!!!!

Wolf, at those prices much of the oil patch is under water. So is the stock market; my few nickles are now pennies.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

TripleD said:


> The gas is taxed by the gallon not the price per gallon . Its got to be more effeceint (sp) cars.


Actually, here in NC we have one of the highest gas taxes in the nation and they recompute it every six months based on the average price during a six month period. The tax goes up one cent to $.375 cents per gallon based off the sales price from April 2014 through Sept. 2014. Which of course was the highest priced period. Yet we are putting in toll roads because we can't raise enough money to build and repair roads. Idiotic!!!!!

http://www.wral.com/nc-gas-tax-will-rise-1-cent-new-year-s-day/14281211/


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Oxankle said:


> Crud!!!!
> 
> Wolf, at those prices much of the oil patch is under water. So is the stock market; my few nickles are now pennies.


The stock market is doing fine today. It's up $175 on the day, and is only a few hundred below the historical high.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Ah yes but don't get too excited just yet. Russia just bumped their interest rates from 10 to 17% trying to stave off the financial depression that appears to be on the way. Trading has now been halted on the ruble...this may be the black swan event that many in the world have been looking for.

And here at home, drilling rigs are shutting down in North Dakota. 
Not a problem you say? Well...there was a lot of money borrowed by bonds (mostly junk bonds) by drilling companies. If they can't make their payments, then there could be more problems here in the US.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-02/junk-bonds-funding-shale-boom-face-8-5-billion-of-losses.html


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

arabian knight said:


> Ah yes but don't get too excited just yet. Russia just bumped their interest rates from 10 to 17% trying to stave off the financial depression that appears to be on the way. Trading has now been halted on the ruble...this may be the black swan event that many in the world have been looking for.
> 
> And here at home, drilling rigs are shutting down in North Dakota.
> Not a problem you say? Well...there was a lot of money borrowed by bonds (mostly junk bonds) by drilling companies. If they can't make their payments, then there could be more problems here in the US.
> ...


Outsmarted by the Arabs -- again...


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## Glade Runner (Aug 1, 2013)

Oxankle said:


> Relax, folks. Saudis and most of the middle east have very low extraction costs. They are flooding the market in order to put the squeeze on the US producers who have costs in the $50 per bbl range. As soon as they've driven some of those fellows out of the business they will jack up the prices again.
> 
> Oil sands extraction costs are said to be around $75 per bbl. One new company says it can produce, with new technology, for around $38 per barrel. That is still higher than the Arabs' cost.
> 
> Danged A-rabs.



Some of their production costs are low but that's not so true of more recent field developments, some of them have been rather disappointing actually. They also do not have anything like the extra capacity that they used to have so they can't just open the valves to flood the market. This whole thing is more about jawboning and market demand. The Saudis don't want to have to reduce production to compensate for increase US production in the face of declining demand, it's that simple. They are also crushing the Russians which they like. You also have to consider that because of the steep decline curve in shale production it won't take much of a pull back in shale drilling and fracking to drastically alter the supply situation.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

nchobbyfarm said:


> Actually, here in NC we have one of the highest gas taxes in the nation and they recompute it every six months based on the average price during a six month period. The tax goes up one cent to $.375 cents per gallon based off the sales price from April 2014 through Sept. 2014. Which of course was the highest priced period. Yet we are putting in toll roads because we can't raise enough money to build and repair roads. Idiotic!!!!!
> 
> http://www.wral.com/nc-gas-tax-will-rise-1-cent-new-year-s-day/14281211/


Ask that governor of yours what the heck the problem is. I lived in NC from 89-91. They were busy trying to build enough 4 lanes so everyone would be within 10 miles of one. Maybe the upkeep on that requires alot of tax. Anyway between the cost of living and all the northern east coasters moving in a buying up everything, it wasn't for me.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

bowdonkey said:


> Ask that governor of yours what the heck the problem is. I lived in NC from 89-91. They were busy trying to build enough 4 lanes so everyone would be within 10 miles of one. Maybe the upkeep on that requires alot of tax. Anyway between the cost of living and all the northern east coasters moving in a buying up everything, it wasn't for me.


That's about the time the NCDOT coffers were busting at the seams. We had plenty of money for building and maintaining roads. Then the legislature decided to raid the accounts just like the Feds did Social Security. But the state can't just print money to cover the IOU's.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Glade Runner said:


> The Saudis don't want to have to reduce production to compensate for increase US production in the face of declining demand, it's that simple.


The Saudis are fully convinced that demand for oil will be gone long before their oil runs out. Right or wrong, that's how they approach the problem. Believing that, they want to sell all the oil they can for whatever they can get for it.

To keep things in perspective, good quality oil (west Texas intermediate) sold for $18 during the late 1980s oil glut. Saudis didn't mind $18 oil at all, and sold us all we wanted for that price. Adjusting for inflation, $18 oil in 1988 would be equivalent to $36 oil today. With oil at $55 today the Saudis are still riding high, and oil could drop another $20 and they'll still sell us all we're willing to buy.


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## Glade Runner (Aug 1, 2013)

Nevada said:


> The Saudis are fully convinced that demand for oil will be gone long before their oil runs out. Right or wrong, that's how they approach the problem. Believing that, they want to sell all the oil they can for whatever they can get for it.
> 
> To keep things in perspective, good quality oil (west Texas intermediate) sold for $18 during the late 1980s oil glut. Saudis didn't mind $18 oil at all, and sold us all we wanted for that price. Adjusting for inflation, $18 oil in 1988 would be equivalent to $36 oil today. With oil at $55 today the Saudis are still riding high, and oil could drop another $20 and they'll still sell us all we're willing to buy.


Part of what you are saying is correct. However, given the current volume they are selling they need nearly $90 a barrel to cover the cost of running their government and all their programs. They are taking money from their reserves to cover the shortfall and I don't know how long they can or will want to sustain that. The other issue is that their oil is going to run out, a lot of their new developments have not been nearly as prolific as anticipated and the quality has been much lower than expected. Some fields are starting to water out. They are doing a whole lot of things to maintain or increase production that they never thought they would have to do and it's not working in many cases. So I'm really not buying that they expand demand to run out before their reserves do.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Glade Runner said:


> Part of what you are saying is correct. However, given the current volume they are selling they need nearly $90 a barrel to cover the cost of running their government and all their programs. They are taking money from their reserves to cover the shortfall and I don't know how long they can or will want to sustain that. The other issue is that their oil is going to run out, a lot of their new developments have not been nearly as prolific as anticipated and the quality has been much lower than expected. Some fields are starting to water out. They are doing a whole lot of things to maintain or increase production that they never thought they would have to do and it's not working in many cases. So I'm really not buying that they expand demand to run out before their reserves do.


The former Saudi oil minister once said:

_"Thirty years from now there will be a huge amount of oil - and no buyers. Oil will be left in the ground. The Stone Age came to an end, not because we had a lack of stones, and the oil age will come to an end not because we have a lack of oil."_
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-predicts-price-crash-as-age-of-oil-ends.html

Oh yeah, they really believe that.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Nevada; I have a large part of my savings in oil stocks--down 25%. I don't know that the Saudi was wrong---

Not more than a few days ago I read that some auto outfit was readying a test model of the fuel cell for its autos. Work on fuel cells has been going on for a long time--there may be a break through. 

I'd like to know--My habit has been to buy high and sell low, and I'd like to change that.

One thing about it; win lose or draw, the chemical industry will need oil for feedstocks. Half our clothing is now synthetic materiels from oil, and there are many other uses. For one thing, we've a lot of country roads that could be paved with asphalt. Oil will sell, but perhaps at lower prices. 
Ox


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Oxankle said:


> Nevada; I have a large part of my savings in oil stocks--down 25%. I don't know that the Saudi was wrong---
> 
> Not more than a few days ago I read that some auto outfit was readying a test model of the fuel cell for its autos. Work on fuel cells has been going on for a long time--there may be a break through.
> 
> ...


Ox, I see we have the same investment strategy - buy high and sell low.

From what I can find, it looks like about 80% of a barrel of oil is used for heating and fuel and only about 20% for fertilizer, petrochemicals, asphalt, etc. 

One stock I just sold was a company that makes petrochemicals. It was supposed to go up as oil went down, but instead it dropped hand in hand with oil companies. This market is strange.


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## Glade Runner (Aug 1, 2013)

Nevada said:


> The former Saudi oil minister once said:
> 
> _"Thirty years from now there will be a huge amount of oil - and no buyers. Oil will be left in the ground. The Stone Age came to an end, not because we had a lack of stones, and the oil age will come to an end not because we have a lack of oil."_
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-predicts-price-crash-as-age-of-oil-ends.html
> ...


The Saudis say a lot of things. Doesn't mean they're true. Dissembling is a fine art with that bunch.

Remember when someone said that nuclear power was going to make electricity too cheap to meter? Same thing, it's agenda driven.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

We just sold some oil stock, took a loss. Will buy again in January if the stock is priced lower than what we sold for 

I have always believed that the stock market is for long term, and timing the market is hard to do, but this time, I think I could actually make a few bucks buying low and holding for awhile. I believe it will go back up all in due time, but selling at a loss is good for the tax position.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

The problem with cheap oil is that we still need alternatives to gasoline, with cheap oil its not profitable to do R&D on: (take your pick) fuel cell, batteries, hydrogen, etc).
The U.S. (and the world) needs a cheap cleaner fuel than gasoline and unless gas is around $4.00 a gallon or more, research into alternatives grinds to a halt.


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## Tyler520 (Aug 12, 2011)

Just going to post this here:

*OPEC admits to manipulating oil prices in effort to crash US production*


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

That is nothing new I posted that days ago. That is what they are doing making sure the Bakkan (sp) oil fields are closed down and this is also a good way to stop that Pipeline form Canada. I said that in other posts.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Tyler520 said:


> Just going to post this here:
> 
> *OPEC admits to manipulating oil prices in effort to crash US production*





> Russian oil tycoon said.


Great source.  

It does not even make sense. Stop pumping shale oil, if prices drop. Start pumping shale oil again later, when prices come back up.

Saudi Arabia is probably hurting themselves more than anybody.

Apparently they don't realize that they are giving their oil away also.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

plowjockey said:


> Saudi Arabia is probably hurting themselves more than anybody.
> 
> Apparently they don't realize that they are giving their oil away also.


The Saudis are doing ok. They're making plenty at $55 oil.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

As long as Saudi get nine dollars they are fine. As in it is not being sold at a loss. Ak pegged the state budget at 70 to 100 a barrel. Due to oil paying the bills for the state and we got into the habit of being bought with trinkets for our votes we are going to just.....Really alaska made it just fine when oil was 20 a barrel but but we pulled out that credit card when oil rocked to 70 a barrel forget about what wasting went one at 140 a barrel. There is no state sale tax but Kenai bough has a sales tax and as the price at the pump went up so did the amount of sales taxes....some of us warned them and suggested that there be a cap on sales tax pegged to the price. The local gov got greedy. It's going to be fun. Remind self to sent copies of Dave Ramsey to those elected.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

It will hurt this area bad, the oilfield is the biggest employer in the area. When the yards start filling with stacked out rigs, things will go down hill from there.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Allen: Ok was full of drilling rigs and rig builders during the last boom. When that one busted there were rig builders bankrupt all over and rigs laying down all over Ok from Tulsa on West. One rig builder that I remembered from my own days in the oil patch, back in the 50's, closed its doors.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Oxankle said:


> Allen: Ok was full of drilling rigs and rig builders during the last boom. When that one busted there were rig builders bankrupt all over and rigs laying down all over Ok from Tulsa on West. One rig builder that I remembered from my own days in the oil patch, back in the 50's, closed its doors.


 
I seen Woodward, OK almost blow away after that one, it took ten years before it started picking up and looking busy again. 

A lot of the rigs from the 80's boom went for scrap or were exported.


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## FeralFemale (Apr 10, 2006)

It's not just the oil fields. This is already affecting companies/suppliers way down the chain from the oil fields. Stupid OPEC.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

FeralFemale said:


> It's not just the oil fields. This is already affecting companies/suppliers way down the chain from the oil fields. Stupid OPEC.


I don't know that I'd call OPEC stupid. We're just fighting an economic war with them that we can't win.


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## FeralFemale (Apr 10, 2006)

Nevada said:


> I don't know that I'd call OPEC stupid. We're just fighting an economic war with them that we can't win.



Well, I meant stupid as in bothersome, not as in their having a pretty good plan to starve out their competition.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

FeralFemale said:


> Well, I meant stupid as in bothersome, not as in their having a pretty good plan to starve out their competition.


The problem with all this is that the oil boom has played a big part in keeping our economy propped-up the past few years. In fact it can be considered an oil bubble. It employs a lot of people at good salaries, and operating oil exploration companies typically fund their activities with a lot of debt load.

My concern is what a bursting oil bubble might do to the economy. Our economy is still fragile right now and can't take too big of a hit without having a huge impact.

And the oil sector isn't the only problem area either. I've also been concerned about the stock bubble, which is entirely artificial. If investors lose confidence that the Fed knows what it's doing that bubble could burst also. A stock market bust could also be triggered by an oil business crash.

I think this oil war is worse news than a lot of people realize.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

It might be bad for the economy overall, but I am enjoying filling up for less than $30. And if diesel keeps creeping down we might get some relief on retail prices because of cheaper transportation. So good for some, bad for others, like most things.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

MO_cows said:


> It might be bad for the economy overall, but I am enjoying filling up for less than $30. And if diesel keeps creeping down we might get some relief on retail prices because of cheaper transportation. So good for some, bad for others, like most things.


Look at it this way, if the oil bubble burst is really bad then Obama's legacy will take a hit for a double-dip recession. That should make conservatives happy.


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

How much of the lower oil prices really have something to do with Russian aggression and sword rattling? It is hurting Russia more than anyone else.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

okiemom said:


> How much of the lower oil prices really have something to do with Russian aggression and sword rattling? It is hurting Russia more than anyone else.


While this oil war has a huge impact on Russia, they aren't really a player. Russia is an exporter.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Nevada said:


> The problem with all this is that the oil boom has played a big part in keeping our economy propped-up the past few years. In fact it can be considered an oil bubble. It employs a lot of people at good salaries, and operating oil exploration companies typically fund their activities with a lot of debt load.
> 
> My concern is what a bursting oil bubble might do to the economy. Our economy is still fragile right now and can't take too big of a hit without having a huge impact.
> 
> ...


At the same time that the oil boom has propped up the economy high energy prices have acted as a drag on it. Witness the effect the propane crisis had on the economy last year. With more money left in their pockets after filling the gas tank consumers will spend on other things. Retail, restaurants, car sales and other consumer spending will drive a broader recovery as long as prices stabilize at levels lower than they have been in recent years.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Nevada said:


> While this oil war has a huge impact on Russia, they aren't really a player. Russia is an exporter.


And other than oil & gas, what does Russia depend on for revenue? The ruble is worth half the value of 2 years ago, their economy can't take this punishment without some real problems. If Putin's popularity takes a steep slide for economic reasons, look for him to try war as a national unity tactic.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Ozarks Tom said:


> And other than oil & gas, what does Russia depend on for revenue? The ruble is worth half the value of 2 years ago, their economy can't take this punishment without some real problems. If Putin's popularity takes a steep slide for economic reasons, look for him to try war as a national unity tactic.


Oh sure, the oil war could be the end of both Putin and Russia. But there's not a lot he can do about it. The Saudis are doing this to squeeze US oil producers. Russia isn't in the equation. Putin will just have to live with it.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Yeah... let's all just sit back whilst our government keeps poking that hornet's nest... nothing is bound to happen...


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Shine said:


> Yeah... let's all just sit back whilst our government keeps poking that hornet's nest... nothing is bound to happen...


How do you suggest that the government get involved in the oil price war? In other words, how would a conservative handle this?


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> How do you suggest that the government get involved in the oil price war? In other words, how would a conservative handle this?


How would a liberal handle this?


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Bomb the Saudi oilfields, price goes up problem solved....LOL


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

double post


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

http://nypost.com/2014/12/14/saudi-arabias-oil-war-against-iran-and-russia-2/I


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Nevada said:


> How do you suggest that the government get involved in the oil price war? In other words, how would a conservative handle this?


OK, here -> IF our government is colluding with Saudi Arabia to alter what is a Capitalistic Oriented Oil Market in an effort to harm another country then I would recommend that this collusion stop. If they are not and Saudi Arabia is pushing up output for their own reasons then I have no say in the matter. I, for one, am enjoying this respite in the cost of gas.

You see, I feel that the best policy is to walk softly and carry a big stick, our government is the arrogant and obnoxious bully that avoids accountability by acting in such a fashion as if they are above accountability.

To sum it up, I feel that the collusion is in fact occurring and that this fact is something that Russia is aware of, hence my Hornet's Nest observation.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

............Saudia Arabia , Producing at almost max output , 12Million BPD !
................Bad for American oil producers and their subcontractors....
................Bad for Russia ,40% drop in monthly revenue , financing wars ..
................Bad for Iran , same 40% drop in revenue , financing Hamas and Syrian war...
................Good(s) for Obama............
................Motivates Castro to open relations with US......
................Motivates Iran to reach deal on Nucleur(sp) material production...preempt Israel from direct attack on bomb making facilitaties.
................Syria moves to enter diplomatic talks to end war.....
................Russia encourages Syria to end war , reduce Syrian need for hard currency to finance war.....
................Foreign aid to Egypt will produce greater diplomatic gains as oil revenue to Egypt has droped by 40% as well .... 
................Syrian peace talks , if productive , means Syrian citizens can eventually return home and start rebuilding their country... , fordy


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

^^^ Sounds good to me.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2014)

Iran will not give up it's nuclear ambitions . Low oil prices might slow them down some but nothing short of war is going to get them to give it up .


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Oil rigs are shutting DOWN at records rates....


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

once today it was down to 53.38 a barrel


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

WV Hillbilly said:


> Iran will not give up it's nuclear ambitions . Low oil prices might slow them down some but nothing short of war is going to get them to give it up .


Sure, war will fix it.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2014)

Nevada said:


> Sure, war will fix it.


I didn't say we should go to war , I said that's the only thing that will stop them . If you think they can be talked out of their nuclear ambitions I'll sell you a bridge or two .


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