# Need to setup 'full' and 'empty' alarm on water tank



## warreng5995 (Jun 26, 2014)

Hey All, if this is in the wrong forum, sorry... please feel free to move thread. I thought about posting it in Hydroponics / Aquaponics forum as that has to do more with water... but this is also electrical.... Need a "Alternative Water" forum. 

Anyway, We have two 250 gallon water "tote style" food grade storage tanks, which are filled by our well pump setup on a manual switch. When we see the tanks get low, we flip the heavy duty switch, and it turns on our well pump which fills the tanks. 

The problem is, if I get distracted _(like when someone came and asked me a question about something and we got talking this morning :bash_ and the switch gets left on, the tank will overflow, and I have to get the shop vac to get as much of the water up as possible and let a fan dry the rest :doh:. 

What I need is to add a 12 volt alarm which will sound when the water is getting near the top of the tank. I do have an alarm in mind, I've used them before, but I'll have to find them on the net again, will post it later. 

I would also like the 12 volt alarm to sound if the tank is getting to low. 

As we have a 12 volt Flowlight Pump _(Model 2920)_ which is setup on a pressure switch and pulls water from these storage tanks and fills our pressure tanks. 

Although its never happened, if some how we forget to check to make sure the storage tank levels, and if they run empty, then this flowlight pump will run continuously until it burns out. 
I'm going to add a 'dry run switch' to the pump, but that only cuts the pump off when it gets hot. I would rather it not come to that point if it can be avoided. 

I've thought about some float switches, but most seem to only 'turn on' when the water level is high and then 'turn off' when it is low. Either way, this doesn't seem to be what I'm needing in this situation. 

I would think there would be some type of a water level sensor that would work better in this situation. One sensor mounted toward the top of the tank, which would 'turn on' when the water level is near full. 
And then another level sensor located near the bottom of the tank that would 'turn on' when the water level drops below the sensor. 

Another problem is, that it would be difficult to access the inside of these tanks. I know some sensors work from the outside of a tank, but I haven't really found either at the present time. 

I know some of you use water storage tanks, does anyone have a similar setup and know of a solution??
*
Any Help is Greatly Appreciated!
~Thanks*
Warren


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Why not get a float switch that'll turn the pump on/off for you instead of an alarm?

WWW


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## Fire-Man (Apr 30, 2005)

warreng5995 said:


> Hey All, if this is in the wrong forum, sorry... please feel free to move thread. I thought about posting it in Hydroponics / Aquaponics forum as that has to do more with water... but this is also electrical.... Need a "Alternative Water" forum.
> 
> Anyway, We have two 250 gallon water "tote style" food grade storage tanks, which are filled by our well pump setup on a manual switch. When we see the tanks get low, we flip the heavy duty switch, and it turns on our well pump which fills the tanks.
> 
> ...


There is 1000's of float switches on e-bay. You could hook a float waterer to your fill hose so when the tank gets full it will stop the water flow if your pump has a pressure switch to cut it off and you can install a water over flow to the outside so you do not flood the building which would be a good idea no matter what you do. As far as what you want 2 micro switches, 2 relays a power source and a float set-up so when it gets filled or needs water the float trip wire will close the micro switches which will close the relays that will activate your alarm.

You could install a float switch that would turn your pump on and off automatically.


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## warreng5995 (Jun 26, 2014)

wy_white_wolf said:


> Why not get a float switch that'll turn the pump on/off for you instead of an alarm?
> 
> WWW


Hi WWW,

We had thought about setting it up that way back sometime ago when we first installed the system. But decided against it. When sending water to the storage tanks, we wanted to control exactly when the well pump kicks on. Just makes things easier if we are using our generator etc. We usually only "top-off" the storage tanks once a day anyway, so its not a big deal. 

However, we can flip the "manual" switch the opposite direction _(its a 2 way switch)_, and change a couple ball valves on the plumbing, and the well pump then is automatically controlled by a regular pressure switch and sends water directly to the pressure tank, bypassing the storage tanks completely. This gives us some versatility if we need it, to still have running water even if the 12 volt pump is down, or if we have to work on the storage tanks etc. We can also run it this way, so long as we have line power, if we just don't need _(or want to bother with)_ using the 12-volt/storage tank side of the system. 

Would have been nice to have a hand pump as a back up, but our well and the static water level is so deep _(well 450ft - static level 320ft)_, there was only a couple hand pump systems out there that could do anything. And after speaking with several companies, they were just so expensive because of how deep the static water level was, we just couldn't do it. So we went with this setup instead. 

With this _*(if line power is down, like it was a week ago due to a major storm)*_ we can connect our generator _(powered with gasoline or woodgas)_ once a day, use it to run the well pump to fill the storage tanks, turn off the generator, and run on the 12v pump for the rest of the day. 

All in all, its worked pretty well, except for when I get distracted and over run the tanks.... But besides that I wanted to add a low sensor as a safety precaution. 

~*Thanks!*
Warren


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

I have a 2000 gallon rain water system that pumps from a 300 gallon primary system tank to a couple of 1000 gallon poly tanks 150 feet away.

The system is automatic and uses two plastic float switches tied to a relay.. One float switch on top to make the circuit when the water level goes high and the tank is ready to be pumped, and another float switch near the bottom to break the latching circuit when the water level gets low. 

You can get stainless floats or plastic floats on ebay for $10 each.. they are normally bi-directional in that you can simply flip the cylindrical float body on the stem and it will reverse its operation.

They look like this:


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## warreng5995 (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi Murby
*Thanks for the info!* Those sound like what I'm looking for. 
How do you attach these to the inside of the tank?


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## warreng5995 (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi Fire-Man,
Is what Murby is showing the type of float switch you are referring to?


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## Fire-Man (Apr 30, 2005)

warreng5995 said:


> Hi Fire-Man,
> Is what Murby is showing the type of float switch you are referring to?


There is many float type switches----a simple one is the type that comes on sump pumps. I have not check them to see if they are heavy duty enough for a big pump, but if not you just use a relay/contactor that is heavy duty enough for the pump----the float will turn on the relay which will turn on the pump.

Another thing you could do is use a extra elevated tank----fill it with water----use float waterer on the main tank. Then you can turn on your pump to fill the reservoir tank when it gets a little low while you stand there. Then if your power goes out for some time-----you will have extra water stored in that tank. You can paint it if needed to block out the light to help control algae.


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## warreng5995 (Jun 26, 2014)

Ok, got the high and low water level float switch parts figured out. *Thanks to everyone who posted for the help! *

I'm going to use a "floyd bell" 12v panel mount alarm. 

Now, I'm just trying to figure out one last part. I've searched the net over for the last two days, but haven't really found what I need. 

When the tank is getting full, and the float switch is activated which will turn on the alarm. Even after the well pump is turned off and forget to turn it back on, the alarm will continue to sound, until enough water is used to drop the water level below the "full" float switch. 

So I need a way to *silence* the alarm. 
Now, yes I could simply put a toggle switch in the circuit and turn it off.... *but* you know that will get *left off* _(especially if someone else is filling the tank)_ which would defeat the whole reason for having the alarm. 

What I need is some sort of switch or relay which when the alarm sounds, it can be manually pushed to *break the circuit*, thus silencing the alarm. ***BUT** *once the water level drops and the float switch is deactivated, I need this switch or relay to *automatically return to a NC *_(normally closed / closed circuit) _*position*. So that the next time the well is turned on, and the water level rises to activate the "full" float switch, that the alarm will once again sound. 

*Does anyone know of any type of switch, relay, etc which can perform in this manner????? *

Like I said, I've looked the internet over for anything like this, but I'm just searching for how I need it to function, as I don't know what it would be called. 
It doesn't seem like any latch switches nor "emergency stop" equipment switches work like this. 
*
Again, Any Help is Much Appreciated!
~Thanks*


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## Fire-Man (Apr 30, 2005)

warreng5995 said:


> Ok, got the high and low water level float switch parts figured out. *Thanks to everyone who posted for the help! *
> 
> I'm going to use a "floyd bell" 12v panel mount alarm.
> 
> Now, I'm just trying to figure out one last part. When the tank is getting full, and the float switch is activated which will turn on the alarm. Even after the well pump is turned off and forget to turn it back on, the alarm will continue to sound, until enough water is used to drop the water level below the "full" float switch.



Manual, think, a way to pull the float down enough the alarm goes off and manually put something you flip/place to hold it down till the water drops then what ever you use will "fall/flip" away so it does not be in the way to stop the float when refilling the next time. 

Automatic---timer or similar that can be reset or times out.


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## warreng5995 (Jun 26, 2014)

Fire-Man said:


> Manual, think, a way to pull the float down enough the alarm goes off and manually put something you flip/place to hold it down till the water drops then what ever you use will "fall/flip" away so it does not be in the way to stop the float when refilling the next time.
> 
> Automatic---timer or similar that can be reset or times out.


Hummm.... something to think about. A different direction than I was first thinking, but I may have to go one of these routes.


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## warreng5995 (Jun 26, 2014)

At first, I thought a switch like I need wouldn't have been very hard to find.... 
Can't hardly believe there isn't a magnetic switch or some kind of manual override relay that would work like this......... :shrug:


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## Fire-Man (Apr 30, 2005)

warreng5995 said:


> At first, I thought a switch like I need wouldn't have been very hard to find....
> Can't hardly believe there isn't a magnetic switch or some kind of manual override relay that would work like this......... :shrug:


How do you have or plan to do the float switch? My original thought was using micro switches that when the float went up to the trip piece where it hits the switch to set off the alarm-----have one or the other where you can manually turn slightly so the trip wire drops back down to cut the alarm off. BUT I do not know how you plan to build it. There is timers that can be built to stay on for so long(adjustable) and can be cut off manually sooner than "that" adjustable set time. Just gets more complicated the more you add. 

How many gallons of water does this set-up use in a day on average?


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## warreng5995 (Jun 26, 2014)

Fire-Man said:


> How do you have or plan to do the float switch? My original thought was using micro switches that when the float went up to the trip piece where it hits the switch to set off the alarm-----have one or the other where you can manually turn slightly so the trip wire drops back down to cut the alarm off. BUT I do not know how you plan to build it. There is timers that can be built to stay on for so long(adjustable) and can be cut off manually sooner than "that" adjustable set time. Just gets more complicated the more you add.
> 
> How many gallons of water does this set-up use in a day on average?


not sure about the float switch 'tripping' another switch by physical contact. Seems to inconsistent and prone to problems. 

On average we use around 100-150 gallons a day. Doesn't take long, especially if you do any laundry that day. 
If family comes in or something, we obviously use more. 
*~Thanks!*


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## warreng5995 (Jun 26, 2014)

*Ok.....* After thinking about this for the past few days, and then spending a couple hours last night trying to figure this out in my head and moving it around on a diagram. I believe I have found a workable solution, that now looking at it, is actually pretty simple. I kept thinking that there should be someway to do this using relays, and there is. 

All is needed is two standard SPST relays, a simple momentary switch, the float switch(s), an alarm, and of course the power source. 

I'm going to try to explain below how this works, but it easier to see a diagram. 
However, I am *not good* at making a wiring diagram.... but I'm going to include the "diagram" I made while trying to figure this out. Hopefully it makes sense. 

_*Note:* I only have the positive power wires shown in the diagram, all the negative/ground wires can go to a common ground and back to the negative side of the battery. 
Also both relays in the diagram is shown in the* "OFF"* state._











*#1 *When activated _(by floating when the tank if full)_ the float switch sends power to the power coil of the first relay. 
*#2* That relay is turned on, and its magnetic switch closes, which sends power through the closed switch of the 2nd relay, and then onto the alarm. 
*#3* To silence the alarm, I have a momentary switch which connects to the power coil of the 2nd relay. #4 When the switch is pushed, the power to the 2nd relay is activated, and its magnetic switch closes, and therefore it is no longer sending power to the alarm. 
*#5* On the output wire of the 2nd relays magnetic switch, I have it sending power back to the coil of the 2nd relay. This way, once the momentary push button switch is pressed, and relay activates and then keeps itself ON by sending power back to its own coil. Basically, this would now be called a "latching" relay. 
*#6* As long as the 2nd relay stays powered, the coil is not receiving any power, and therefore is silenced. 
*#7* Once the water level drops to the point that the float switch turns off and disconnects, then the float switch will no longer be sending power to the 1st relay. Once the 1st relay is no OFF, then the 2nd relay will turn off and return to its original position. 
*#8* And at this point, the whole system has been *"automatically reset"* and is ready to sound the alarm the next time the float switch "says" the tank is full. :bouncy:

Hope this may help someone else who may need a similar circuit for something. 
*~Thanks!*


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## Fire-Man (Apr 30, 2005)

That will work. Because of being on solar on the back of my farm---where I do "everything" I would not want the power draw from the 2 relays that will be on till the water level drops----even though they are not a lot of draw. How long will the relays be on in a 24 hr period on average. I am just wondering how long they would last before the coil would burn out----probably a long time----but that would not be expensive to replace if needed. It will for sure work for what you want.


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## hihobaron (Oct 5, 2015)

Hello All
Here is something I use for my livestock tanks. 5 horses suck up 500 gallon a day.
It is the fill valve for a toilet flush tank.
It is NOT a float type valve that works on the float height.
It works on (Weight) above the valve and is some what adjustable for level in tank.It works in any position. Admits water as needed. hooks into the normal pressure line off of your water source/well head.
Also has a back flow device, Cost about $10
You would mount it in a side wall of tank (7/8-1 inch hole) hole drilled in side of tank about 18 inch down from the top.
Will shut off the water lines into your tanks and let the normal pressure switch shuts down the main well pump. No matter what power source you are using.
==========================
To save your 12 volt pump from running dry splice in a low pressure switch in series with pump power supply line. Set the pressure switch for like 2 psi (?) as the cut off point. Use the normally open set of contacts SPDT or DPDT if you feel the need and I use a high current relay (Garden Tractor Starter Solenoid) would work good.
As long as you have more than 2 psi pressure of water on the switch it will let the pump run. Less than that and it will cut power to the pump.
=================

I have used the toilet fill valves in my stock tanks for years including a gravity fill water supply system with only about 10 feet of head pressure from a small spring head I captured in a kiddy swimming pool with a hose running down hill 10 feet to the stock tank. The Valve worked just fine.
Some times if the valve starts to leak you probably have some dirt or algae, pond scum etc. Build up. Believe it or not you can take them apart and clean them out.
If the pressure diaframe has a hole you just buy a complete new valve. 
I usually keep a couple spares on hand, $10 each I can afford that and it is less than 15 minute replacement job.
Happy Trails
Keep Splashing
hihobaron


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## Fire-Man (Apr 30, 2005)

hihobaron said:


> Hello All
> Here is something I use for my livestock tanks. 5 horses suck up 500 gallon a day.
> It is the fill valve for a toilet flush tank.


 
I use those too, but my water is from a pressure system. The Original poster cuts his water pump on manually when needed and was after a alarm to let him know the tank was filled------if he had walked away----so his tank would not over flow.


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## warreng5995 (Jun 26, 2014)

Fire-Man said:


> That will work. Because of being on solar on the back of my farm---where I do "everything" I would not want the power draw from the 2 relays that will be on till the water level drops----even though they are not a lot of draw. How long will the relays be on in a 24 hr period on average. I am just wondering how long they would last before the coil would burn out----probably a long time----but that would not be expensive to replace if needed. It will for sure work for what you want.


Yeah, I thought about the power the relays will use. But, they shouldn't be on for more than a couple hours at a time, just until enough water is used to drop the level below the float switch. And thats even if the tank is allowed to turn the "full" float switch on in the first place. This alarm is more of a.... fail safe I guess you could say, normally we will turn off the pump before it reaches high enough to kick the alarm on anyway. 

I have quite a few of these relays, as I have used them on some other older equipment which had mechanical relays that had quit working, and a replacement could not be found. So I had to rewire it and replaced them with "modern" relays. So I always keep extras on hand just in case, although I've never had to replace one. 

*~Thanks!*


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## warreng5995 (Jun 26, 2014)

hihobaron said:


> To save your 12 volt pump from running dry splice in a low pressure switch in series with pump power supply line. Set the pressure switch for like 2 psi (?) as the cut off point. Use the normally open set of contacts SPDT or DPDT if you feel the need and I use a high current relay (Garden Tractor Starter Solenoid) would work good.
> As long as you have more than 2 psi pressure of water on the switch it will let the pump run. Less than that and it will cut power to the pump.
> 
> 
> ...


Your idea on using a toilet valve is a great cheap idea to keep a tank full. Have to keep that in mind, as I might be able to use that in the future. 

The PSI switch is also a good idea. As the "dry run" switch for this specific pump is expensive. 
Your PSI switch gave me an idea. I may be able to add a separate relay for the Low Tank Level Float switch. And instead of the Low float activating just an alarm, I could instead have it activate a relay, and wire it in a way that when the relay is turned on, it will cut the power to the 12v pump. That way it will save any possible damage to the pump, and when the water stops running, we'll know we forgot to fill the tank :bash:
Actually I wanted this so if something happened, like a water line broke or some other larger leak etc, when no one was here or at night, and it drained the tanks, then at least it would not burn up the pump. And I think this will be a good safety for that purpose. 

*So Thanks for the Idea!* :goodjob:


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