# LED brightness



## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

I have been looking at getting some 12 volt LED lights for the camper, the ice fishing house, and the privy. These guys have a bazillion different kinds. 
http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale/wholesale-48-smd-led-light.html
I am looking at 48 LEDs on a sheet, surface mount (SMD), and either 3528 or 5050 (dimentions of the sheet) .

I want something that is as bright as a 100 watt incandesent bulb. If we have to combine 2 to get that bright it's OK. Anyone have any experience with these?


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## Allen15 (Apr 18, 2013)

Light output is measured in lumens. A typical incandescent light bulb will produce about 13-17 lumens/watt of power input, so a 100 watt bulb will produce 1300-1700 lumens, give or take.

A typical LED light is much more efficient, but it is still only going to produce about 60-90 lumens/watt and probably much closer to the 60 for the cheaper ones.

By way of example, an LED light with a rating of 60 lumens /watt is still 4 times more efficient than an incandescent bulb at 15 lumens/watt, but you'd still need 1/4th the wattage to reproduce the light output of a 100 watt light, or 25 watts worth.

I don't see a power rating on most of those lights, but I'd bet it isn't very high, since a 25 watt draw on 12 volts will still require over 2 amps continuously, and those seem to be more on line with being dome light replacements for automobiles, they aren't likely to draw that much, 'cause of the risk of draining a battery if forgotten in the on position.

The 3528 light I did see a power rating for was 2.5 watts, which means you'd need not 2 of them, but 10 of them to equal a single 100 watt bulb in light output. I've got no idea what the specs are on the 5050's, but doubt they are too far off from that.

Also keep in mind that if you were to use these, their color rendering index is pretty low, so colors won't look right when viewing under these lights, although for general lighting, you can adjust to that. For any kind of photographic work, they will work poorly, though.

For general lighting purposes, as long as you can do with less than a 100 watt light, this does look like a low-cost way to get there, just don't expect 100 watt light output.

Hope this helps?


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Lumen output is also going to vary by the voltage the LED's are driven by...

The LED 'lamp' market is changing so rapidly it is difficult to keep up with...


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Thanks for the help. I want to be able to read by the light. I seem to need more light as I get older. 

Both the camper and the ice fishing house are wired for 12 volt, 50 watt incandecent lights. It's a strain to try to read by one and they drain the battery too quickly. I know Menards carries 12 volt curly flouresents. I may have to try one of those.

The led's vary in color from 3000 degrees Kelvin to 5000 degrees Kelvin. The color of the light is not that important unless you are eating. The food looks nasty under the cool light.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I was pricing out a similar project not to long ago , the most cost effective solution i could find was a inexpensive inverter , then use standard compact florescent bulbs at a cost of about 25 cents each , with some inexpensive Edison base light sockets and simple wiring and a plug , that way if the ice shanty or rv is at home you can just move the plug and run off the extension cord from the garage


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I was pricing out a similar project not to long ago , the most cost effective solution i could find was a inexpensive inverter , then use standard compact florescent bulbs at a cost of about 25 cents each , with some inexpensive Edison base light sockets and simple wiring and a plug , that way if the ice shanty or rv is at home you can just move the plug and run off the extension cord from the garage


 
If your correct on 25 cent cf bulbs please give info to where I can purhase them.

V/R Ky-Jeeper


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## Allen15 (Apr 18, 2013)

CFLs will be cheaper, but won't produce as much light/watt as the LEDs will. They will be better than the incandescent bulbs, though.

You'll have to decide which is the highest priority - low cost or more light (or better battery life?)

I'd like to know where to buy 25 cent CFL bulbs too!


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

You read here about --"It burned out after two weeks" "I don't like them" ( CFL )

Yup so goes it when the idiot mano's cheapin the product . . . .
And of course the first reaction years ago to CFL's . . ."They are too expensive"
. . "I would buy them if they didn't cost so much". . . . .

So now we have come full circle . . . . ultra cheap cfl's . . . . and along with that a darn cheap product............
Go figure..........
One of my first bought cfl's lasted maybe 10 years . . .It was on a timer in the living room, and came on for all the dark hours before bedtime........

That ain't gonna happen with those . . .25 centers

Best to put the money into LED's in this day and age..............................


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## idahodave (Jan 20, 2005)

You could try Northerntool I noticed a number of LED automotive work lights like this one:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200578638_200578638 in the last catalog. No first hand knowledge, but some of the lights could be worth a try.


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

I use cold cathode florescent lighting. They have a proven track record and the color is like a standard florescent. If you have a flat monitor on your computer or a laptop, yer lookin' at one.. 

I have 2 fixtures that I built 5 yrs. ago and never a problem. One is outside and has been since day one.(Weatherproofed)

I replaced a 4' standard single florescent tube fixture in my kitchen with CCFL. The single standard florescent pulled ~3.75 amps but the replacement (2 of the below) only draws 1 amp and provides "almost" as much light. (Not much difference) 

I was able to spread the light around easily because they are so small. I placed them at 4 different spots on the ceiling to reduce shadowing compared to the single spot lighting from the standard unit. (Each CCFL has 2 bulbs that draws .5 amps @ 12 v.d.c.)

These are the ones that I use. Shop around and ya might find a better price. They kick LED butt for area lighting!

http://www.xoxide.com/dual-white-cold-cathode-kit.html


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## Allen15 (Apr 18, 2013)

I'd be somewhat leery of that product, 'cause there are no real technical specs to compare true apples-to-apples, and that listing is filled with technical inaccuracies, like "hundreds of volts of power" (power isn't measured in volts), and "Average Current Damand +/- 3.7w" (current isn't measured in watts)... This has to have been written by some sales/marketing type trying to sell a product, and I wouldn't take their word that it provided any specific amount of light without a result from a light meter...

"Huge lifespan" - (Really? Compared to what???)

Not enough good information to be able to make a good consumer purchase, because you don't even know what the glowing reviewers are comparing it too, and they aren't providing technical comparisons either.

Let the buyer beware! Not saying this product won't light up, but not sure it will do what the OP was truly looking for, since they already had a baseline that was set by a 100 watt bulb...


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

Well, heck.. I should just scrap my 5 yrs. of *"Experience"* and start over again.. 

Do the math.. IF 2 sets put out about as much light as a 40 watt single tube florescent, I'll betcha 6 sets would fit the bill. (@ 3 amps)

They are designed for kids to light up computer cases. Do ya think kids worry about specs? I tried some, *use them*, and I highly recommend them.. How many rooms have you lit up "Alternatively"?

*I have no stock in that company, just to clarify..*


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## Allen15 (Apr 18, 2013)

Sorry to imply such, but no, I'm not recommending that you discard any of your experience.

To clarify, the OP mentions that they are having trouble reading in dim light, and had requested the same performance of a 100 watt bulb. You've never mentioned that you had any vision problems, so I won't assume that you do, and as you've been happy with your lighting, I certainly wouldn't recommend that you change it in any way.

All people don't see things the same way, and everyone's eyes don't work exactly the same either (my wife is practically night blind, and I used to take it for granted that I could see well in dim/little light, until I watched her walk into furniture that I thought was so plainly visible that it didn't warrant a warning...).

I wouldn't recommend anyone who hasn't actually tried or seen your setup to do so, without more information about their specific vision issues and acuity, so since they've alluded to having trouble with lower light levels, "almost as good as" may not be good enough for them.

I do, however, have trouble with ANY advertising/marketing material that doesn't accurately represent their product, no matter what the product, and when a webpage has several glaring errors in their product description, my first thought would be that they were either written by some sales force that was just saying whatever they thought would sell the product, in which case one is in danger of not getting what one thought they were buying, or translation errors, in which case, the service after the sale is likely to be missing at a most inconvenient time.

I recognize that is possible for one to get excellent customer service even through a language barrier, it is just not as common as not getting such. If you recommend that vendor personally, that's not the same as it being something that you just found in an internet search, but it was not clear if you were doing so.

For the record, I frequently have many different folks ask me why I'm sitting in rooms with no lights on, because I didn't even think to turn them on, but others think it is dark in there, and come in, turn on the lights, and are surprised to see me in there working/reading/etc. - I often DON'T light up rooms at all. "Lighting up a room" with CCFLs, doesn't necessarily mean that the light levels from such were equivalent to, or sufficient to meet the OP's needs, so THEY need to be cautious when shopping to make sure that THEIR needs are met, without thinking that anyone else's experiences will be exactly what they have. In short, YMMV, and so might theirs.

None of the CCFLs used for computer case customization would be sufficient for my wife as a task lighting replacement, even though I find them annoyingly bright 



12vman said:


> Well, heck.. I should just scrap my 5 yrs. of *"Experience"* and start over again..
> 
> Do the math.. IF 2 sets put out about as much light as a 40 watt single tube florescent, I'll betcha 6 sets would fit the bill. (@ 3 amps)
> 
> ...


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Many many folks got used to blasting a room with big light bulbs.
So reading with a 100 watt bulb 10 feet away was quite possible
'Task lighting' is better now-a-days . . . .get the light source closer to you . .and you don't need to blast away with a 100 watter........
I have a head lamp with only three LED's that I could read by . . . . .
At Lowes a few days ago I stumbled on a couple 50% marked down ($7) Led bulbs that are 3000K . . 450 lumens . . . .7.5 watts. . . putting that bulb reasonably close to me will make it a very good source of light --for reading--- all for 7.5 watts .
I'd say that is a rather substantial electrical savings...........


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## Tyler520 (Aug 12, 2011)

A word of caution with those types of websites:

They tend to sell, low quality products made in China that will fail long before they should, and never meet their specifications.

If you can afford it, go directly through a more reputable manufacturer, instead of some mysterious middle-man resaler.


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