# Dad who wrote scathing letter to Brearley about race focus: ‘Someone had to’



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

He has a valid complaint IMHO.









Dad who wrote scathing letter to Brearley about race focus: ‘Someone had to’


A father fed up with an elite Manhattan prep school’s heavy-handed focus on race won’t re-enroll his daughter in the fall, accusing the school of trying to “brainwash” kids with woke philosophies r…




nypost.com





A father fed up with an elite Manhattan prep school’s heavy-handed focus on race won’t re-enroll his daughter in the fall, accusing the school of trying to “brainwash” kids with woke philosophies rather than teaching them how to think on their own.

In a scathing 1,700-word letter Andrew Gutmann mailed to 650 families — a screed since gone viral — he blasted the posh, all-girls Brearley School’s “cowardly and appalling lack of leadership [for] appeasing an anti-intellectual, illiberal mob.”

The April 13 missive — published this week on journalist Bari Weiss’ blog — became public the same day the headmaster of the famed Dalton School resigned over controversial “anti-racism” curriculum and policies that had outraged many parents.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

The letter.









You Have to Read This Letter


A New York father pulls his daughter out of Brearley with a message to the whole school. Is the dam starting to break?




bariweiss.substack.com


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

The reason for the pledge








NYC’s Brearley School Demands Anti-Racism Pledge from Students, Parents for Admission - Washington Free Beacon


The application process for an elite New York private school requires parents to outline their commitment to anti-racism and attend anti-racist training.




freebeacon.com





The "anti-racist" requirements surfaced after black alumnae from three prestigious all-girls schools took to Instagram to accuse their alma maters of racism. The account "Black at Brearley" posted approximately 100 allegations of racism that took place at the school, with one alumna alleging that the school "tokenized" her by asking her to appear on diversity panels for prospective students. "Despite being constantly disrespected [by] administration and my teachers, I was always asked to be on internal panels and diversity panels for prospective students," the Instagram post reads. "The school tokenized me, using me as a prop to give off the (false) impression that it was inclusive and accepting of black students."

I can see as a parent pulling my kid from a school that had any requirements I didn't agree with of course...


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> The reason for the pledge
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How many blacks went there?


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

HDRider said:


> How many blacks went there?


Does it matter?

Anyway, 
Admissions data show that over half of Brearley's student body is made up of students of color.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Is the "anti-racism" pledge signed by POC? Are they taking a pledge not to be racist toward others? Or is it automatically assumed only white's are racist. Y'all don't have to answer that question, I know the answer. 

The schools are just looking for points in the rush to demean the children under their control. IMHO


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

*ANTI-RACIST STATEMENT*
*The Brearley School condemns racism in the strongest possible terms and is committed to building an anti-racist community. This work requires active introspection, self-awareness and the determination to make conscious and consistently equitable choices on a daily basis. We expect our faculty, staff, students, parents and trustees to pursue meaningful change through deliberate and measurable actions. These actions include participating in anti-racist training and identifying and eliminating policies, practices and beliefs that uphold racial inequality in our community.*


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> Does it matter?
> 
> Anyway,
> Admissions data show that over half of Brearley's student body is made up of students of color.


So why would a school that is half colored need a token?


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

The 


HDRider said:


> So why would a school that is half colored need a token?


It's possible the person that wrote that attended many years ago, I don't know...
I don't have instagram.
They are relating their racist experiences past and present I'd assume.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> The
> 
> 
> It's possible the person that wrote that attended many years ago, I don't know...
> ...


I guess they were very successful at recruiting non whites.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

no really said:


> A father fed up with an elite Manhattan prep school’s heavy-handed focus on race won’t re-enroll his daughter in the fall, accusing the school of trying to “brainwash” kids with woke philosophies rather than teaching them how to think on their own.


Good for him.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Hmmmm...

He’s now waiting to see if the school will allow his 12-year-old daughter to finish out the year. She’s been there since kindergarten and hopes to stay until June to complete the sixth grade. Gutmann asked that the Post not identify his daughter.

“She hasn’t been brainwashed yet by the school — but she’s had me at home,” Gutmann said Saturday. “I’m not so sure that’s true of the other kids.”

Gutmann, a wealthy former investment banker who now heads his family’s chemical business, does not regret writing the letter.

He said he grew increasingly concerned and frustrated by what he saw happening at the school. Last year he refused to sign the school’s anti-racism pledge. “I thought they were going to kick my daughter out then,” Gutmann said. “They didn’t but next year they have the pledge built into the yearly school contract.”









Dad who wrote scathing letter to Brearley about race focus: ‘Someone had to’


A father fed up with an elite Manhattan prep school’s heavy-handed focus on race won’t re-enroll his daughter in the fall, accusing the school of trying to “brainwash” kids with woke philosophies r…




nypost.com





How odd he would want her to stay on considering his feelings.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

It's one thing to have an opinion un-enroll your child, but why tell everyone about it?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> It's one thing to have an opinion un-enroll your child, but why tell everyone about it?


Why wouldn't he? The Father felt his child was being discriminated against, abused and not getting the education he was paying $54.000 a year for.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> It's one thing to have an opinion un-enroll your child, but why tell everyone about it?


I think one of the reason things have gone so far off the rails is good people have been silent while freaks and radicals have screamed at the top of their lungs and ran with scissors.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

no really said:


> Why wouldn't he? The Father felt his child was being discriminated against, abused and not getting the education he was paying $54.000 a year for.


I guess that is a reason. But still, no one can change that for him, but maybe others might join him.



HDRider said:


> I think one of the reason things have gone so far off the rails is good people have been silent while freaks and radicals have screamed at the top of their lungs and ran with scissors.


I agree. So in that case it is a reason for him to share his thought process.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Benjamin Crump attorney for George Floyd's family said today there had to be a racial reconing. Not sure on the spelling.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

no really said:


> Is the "anti-racism" pledge signed by POC? Are they taking a pledge not to be racist toward others? Or is it automatically assumed only white's are racist. Y'all don't have to answer that question, I know the answer.
> 
> The schools are just looking for points in the rush to demean the children under their control. IMHO


Exactly


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

TripleD said:


> Benjamin Crump attorney for George Floyd's family said today there had to be a racial reconing. Not sure on the spelling.


If they keep poking the bear, they’ll get more than they can handle.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

HDRider said:


> I think one of the reason things have gone so far off the rails is good people have been silent while freaks and radicals have screamed at the top of their lungs and ran with scissors.


Agreed


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Kiamichi Kid said:


> If they keep poking the bear, they’ll get more than they can handle.


I just want to be left alone! Nobody other than family built me. I've reciprocated more than my share. The banks did help out too but they got their interest. I'm fine with that 🤠


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

TripleD said:


> ...The banks did help out too but they got their interest. I'm fine with that 🤠


I tend to view them as a partner of sorts.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

kinderfeld said:


> I tend to view them as a partner of sorts.


You are correct. I had a balloon come due last year on a owner finance. It went month to month after that. They called last week after seeing one for sale 130k on -line across the street. They called the note for 15k. It's all good 😊...


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> It's one thing to have an opinion un-enroll your child, but why tell everyone about it?


Goof for him that he did. Doing the right think often times is not the simple way out.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

HDRider said:


> I think one of the reason things have gone so far off the rails is good people have been silent while freaks and radicals have screamed at the top of their lungs and ran with scissors.


Well said.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

My thoughts on racism-- It's very easy to forget a guy is black when he forgets that he's black first..... When in Rome, do as the Romans do.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Sounds like Dad got the 15 mins of fame he desired.
Grandstanding like some wannabe hero, like he didn't know what a private school in NY would be like.
The poor daughter. Hopefully she can remain anonymous in her next school- not that any private school will accept her again.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

doozie said:


> *ANTI-RACIST STATEMENT*
> *The Brearley School condemns racism in the strongest possible terms and is committed to building an anti-racist community. This work requires active introspection, self-awareness and the determination to make conscious and consistently equitable choices on a daily basis. We expect our faculty, staff, students, parents and trustees to pursue meaningful change through deliberate and measurable actions. These actions include participating in anti-racist training and identifying and eliminating policies, practices and beliefs that uphold racial inequality in our community.*


Sounds like race "awareness" is more important than actual academic achievement?
"Equity" is giving the same result despite individual effort, intelligence or accomplishment?
If they were truly anti racist, everyone would be judged on what they do, how they act, not the color of their skin.
Unfortunately, there's a huge racist movement in this country, most are too stupid to see racism isn't a one way street.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

TripleD said:


> Benjamin Crump attorney for George Floyd's family said today there had to be a racial reconing. Not sure on the spelling.


He sounds like a racist to me.
Black cops shoot white people in the line of duty. Imagine someone saying there would be a racial reckoning?
They'd be accused of "Lynching"


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

TripleD said:


> there had to be a racial reconing.


That is liberal speak for another riot.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

fireweed farm said:


> Grandstanding like some wannabe hero, like he didn't know what a private school in NY would be like.


Apparently this is something new that the school is doing. As far as private schools go, people send their kids to them as an alternative to the BS in public schools.




fireweed farm said:


> The poor daughter. Hopefully she can remain anonymous in her next school-


I hope so too. The MSM loves doxing in this country. Even children aren't off limits.




fireweed farm said:


> not that any private school will accept her again.


Most set themselves apart by NOT partaking in the same rubbish as public schools. They would understand his point.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

muleskinner2 said:


> That is liberal speak for another riot.


Or, truth doesn't matter.
Come to think of it, those race hustlers don't live in the same zip code as the truth. It's foreign to them!


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

This my favorite part of his letter:

_I object to the idea that Blacks are unable to succeed in this country without aid from government or from whites. Brearley, by adopting critical race theory, is advocating the abhorrent viewpoint that Blacks should forever be regarded as helpless victims, and are incapable of success regardless of their skills, talents, or hard work_."

I believe our Government does this as well. Rather than old people accountable for their own success, our Government continually uses race as an excuse for the lack of success.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

If being woke means that you believe a black or other minority can't get by without help from the government then I guess I will just have to stay asleep. 

I mean, how racist can you get by believing this? How is this different than thinking black people have different germs and should use a different bathroom. 

It's disgusting and not to be tolerated.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> If being woke means that you believe a black or other minority can't get by without help from the government then I guess I will just have to stay asleep.
> 
> I mean, how racist can you get by believing this? How is this different than thinking black people have different germs and should use a different bathroom.
> 
> It's disgusting and not to be tolerated.


They are too dumb to get an id according to some


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> They are too dumb to get an id according to some


I know and we have had ID to vote for decades here. They even voted for JFK all the way until Carter. "Good time" Charlie Wilson until he retired and plenty of Democratic governors. All with a picture state issued ID. Doesn't have to be a license. 

I can tell you why this is happening. A certain political party has screwed up ( I know because I used to be one) and wants to blame anything but themselves. The people that still cling on believe it.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

kinderfeld said:


> Apparently this is something new that the school is doing. As far as private schools go, people send their kids to them as an alternative to the BS in public schools.


You know that private schools are expensive right? 
Generally the children of the college educated go to private schools...
At least around here that's the case.
Not really for the children of your average uneducated trailer park republicans. That's what homeschooling is for.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

fireweed farm said:


> You know that private schools are expensive right?
> Generally the children of the college educated go to private schools...
> At least around here that's the case.
> Not really for the children of your average uneducated trailer park republicans. That's what homeschooling is for.


Childish insults, not surprising.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

My daughter is neither a republican nor a resident of a trailer park and she homeschools our grandson.
What does that make her?


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

GTX63 said:


> My daughter is neither a republican nor a resident of a trailer park and she homeschools our grandson.
> What does that make her?


Smarter than a Canadian.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

fireweed farm said:


> You know that private schools are expensive right?
> Generally the children of the college educated go to private schools...
> At least around here that's the case.
> Not really for the children of your average uneducated trailer park republicans. That's what homeschooling is for.


You should have your Canadianess removed


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

fireweed farm said:


> You know that private schools are expensive right?
> Generally the children of the college educated go to private schools...
> At least around here that's the case.
> Not really for the children of your average uneducated trailer park republicans. That's what homeschooling is for.


Do the trailer park Democrats send their kids to private school then?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

fireweed farm said:


> You know that private schools are expensive right?
> Generally the children of the college educated go to private schools...
> At least around here that's the case.
> Not really for the children of your average uneducated trailer park republicans. That's what homeschooling is for.


How are trailer park Republicans different from trailer park Democrats?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> Do the trailer park Democrats send their kids to private school then?


Democrats are superior to Americans in every way (So they think)


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Cornhusker said:


> How are trailer park Republicans different from trailer park Democrats?


They don't care about the poor, only the rich.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Hate to break it to the father, but many Universities and Corporations/Workplaces his daughter may encounter in her future make a statements or pledge to fight Racism.

I'm surprised at his reaction more than anything. Sending a letter out to every family as If they didn't know the schools position, or didnt sign the pledge themselves.
He seems to think the Civil rights act ended systemic racism...poof! It's gone.

It's over the top, I feel sorry for his kid.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

doozie said:


> Hate to break it to the father, but many Universities and Corporations/Workplaces his daughter may encounter in her future make a statements or pledge to fight Racism.
> 
> I'm surprised at his reaction more than anything. Sending a letter out to every family as If they didn't know the schools position, or didnt sign the pledge themselves.
> He seems to think the Civil rights act ended systemic racism...poof! It's gone.
> ...


The only systemic racism is that perpetuated by our government.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Cornhusker said:


> Democrats are superior to Americans in every way (So they think)


I'm proud to not be one of the chosen ones anymore.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> I'm proud to not be one of the chosen ones anymore.


As am I!!


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

[


doozie said:


> Hate to break it to the father, but many Universities and Corporations/Workplaces his daughter may encounter in her future make a statements or pledge to fight Racism.
> 
> I'm surprised at his reaction more than anything. Sending a letter out to every family as If they didn't know the schools position, or didnt sign the pledge themselves.
> He seems to think the Civil rights act ended systemic racism...poof! It's gone.
> ...


I feel sorry for the people that have bought into this charade.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

fireweed farm said:


> You know that private schools are expensive right?
> Generally the children of the college educated go to private schools...
> At least around here that's the case.
> Not really for the children of your average uneducated trailer park republicans. That's what homeschooling is for.


How very insulting. I homeschooled one of mine and I'm neither republican nor have I ever lived in a trailer park.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> I'm proud to not be one of the chosen ones anymore.





no really said:


> As am I!!


I recall the dark days before your conversions. You both are good people, and we welcome you coming out of the dark side.

You both have good stories to tell. I want to ask you explain your conversion so maybe others can be saved.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

no really said:


> I feel sorry for the people that have bought into this charade.


It puts people into two categories. Victims and oppressors. It's a loser philosophy.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

wr said:


> How very insulting. I homeschooled one of mine and I'm neither republican nor have I ever lived in a trailer park.


Given the subject being discussed, the stereotyping and bigotry are pretty ironic.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> I'm proud to not be one of the chosen ones anymore.





no really said:


> As am I!!



I'm so proud of both of you.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

[/QUOTE]


kinderfeld said:


> Given the subject being discussed, the stereotyping and bigotry are pretty ironic.


I'm Canadian First Nations and keep wanting to offer some insight but each time I do, someone is quick to tell me I'm wrong.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

doozie said:


> Hate to break it to the father, but many Universities and Corporations/Workplaces his daughter may encounter in her future make a statements or pledge to fight Racism.
> 
> I'm surprised at his reaction more than anything. Sending a letter out to every family as If they didn't know the schools position, or didnt sign the pledge themselves.
> He seems to think the Civil rights act ended systemic racism...poof! It's gone.
> ...


Looks to me like they are fueling racism, not fighting it.
Much like Pepsi's "Be less white" mandate.
The bigoted left is having a field day.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> I'm proud to not be one of the chosen ones anymore.


Like the Grinch, your brain grew 3 sizes that day? 😎


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

wr said:


> How very insulting. I homeschooled one of mine and I'm neither republican nor have I ever lived in a trailer park.


I'm sure it was meant to be insulting.
Some of the finest people I know started in a trailer park when they first went out on their own. (As opposed to living with Mom and Dad well into their 20s and 30s)
Pay your own way or sponge off your aging parents, which option do liberals _not _make fun of? (Hint, it's the second option)
In this day of teachers pushing their politics on kids, home schooling is a good option.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I'm Canadian First Nations and keep wanting to offer some insight but each time I do, someone is quick to tell me I'm wrong.
[/QUOTE]
Insight isn't real popular around here, it's usually truth and some can't deal with truth.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

doozie said:


> I'm surprised at his reaction more than anything. Sending a letter out to every family as If they didn't know the schools position, or didnt sign the pledge themselves.
> He seems to think the Civil rights act ended systemic racism...poof! It's gone.
> 
> It's over the top, I feel sorry for his kid.


Without mentioning what you were told from your tv, read on facebook or received in the mail from Starbucks, could you give a few recent examples of your direct personal accounts of systemic racism, as you witnessed it?


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

Dang, someone please tell me what group I belong to. I am collage educated(graduated with honors), don't live in a trailer park, and my kids have gone to public school up until this year. Now half of them are homeschooling and the rest are doing public school from home.<wringing my hands waiting for an answer> 

Oh, and to top it all off I a lazy stay at home mom.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Need a little more information-
How often do you demand to speak to the manager?


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> Without mentioning what you were told from your tv, read on facebook or received in the mail from Starbucks, could you give a few recent examples of your direct personal accounts of systemic racism, as you witnessed it?


Huh? What would my personal experiences have to do with anything...

What I can tell you is getting a letter from another parent spouting off his personal opinion on school policy without taking into account my feelings on the subject would be very presumptuous,unwelcome, maybe even insulting...depending on my personal experiences even.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

doozie said:


> Huh? What would my personal experiences have to do with anything...
> 
> What I can tell you is getting a letter from another parent spouting off his personal opinion on school policy without taking into account my feelings on the subject would be very presumptuous,unwelcome, maybe even insulting...depending on my personal experiences even.


Well than you take the letter wad it up and throw it away, same way I do when I get crap from any supporters of BLM or their minions. Don't feel threatened or mad I just disregard it.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

doozie said:


> Huh? What would my personal experiences have to do with anything...


Well, based on your response, I should ask you how serious the problem of Dwarf Shoplifting is?


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

doozie said:


> Huh? What would my personal experiences have to do with anything...
> 
> What I can tell you is getting a letter from another parent spouting off his personal opinion on school policy without taking into account my feelings on the subject would be very presumptuous,unwelcome, maybe even insulting...depending on my personal experiences even.


Write your own letter?


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

People shoplift dwarfs?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Yes, apparently bringing in those oversized canvas reusable shopping bags has become a conduit for grey market labor.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

no really said:


> Well than you take the letter wad it up and throw it away, same way I do when I get crap from any supporters of BLM or their minions. Don't feel threatened or mad I just disregard it.


But what about your feelings??? 😩😭


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Cornhusker said:


> But what about your feelings??? 😩😭



🤣 🎉🎊 LOL


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

doozie said:


> Huh? What would my personal experiences have to do with anything...
> 
> What I can tell you is getting a letter from another parent spouting off his personal opinion on school policy without taking into account my feelings on the subject would be very presumptuous,unwelcome, maybe even insulting...depending on my personal experiences even.


When my kids were in school, I didn't feel anyone needed a handbook on how to treat them and was completely satisfied with the idea that they were treated exactly the same as any other student. Not better or different or somehow special.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

wr said:


> When my kids were in school, I didn't feel anyone needed a handbook on how to treat them and was completely satisfied with the idea that they were treated exactly the same as any other student. Not better or different or somehow special.


That's great.
Appearantly students of the school had a different experience and started the Black at Brearley site, to bring attention to their own experiences. I've read it's something students from other schools are doing as well.

The school isn't being dismissive of the students claims. It's in their best interest to do something and the father doesn't agree with what they've decided and wants everyone to know it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

doozie said:


> That's great.
> Appearantly students of the school had a different experience and started the Black at Brearley site, to bring attention to their own experiences. I've read it's something students from other schools are doing as well.
> 
> The school isn't being dismissive of the students claims. It's in their best interest to do something and the father doesn't agree with what they've decided and wants everyone to know it.


Kids are going to get hurt feelings once in a while and it's way easier to blame it on racism that to simply remind kids that things don't always go their way. 

You're quick to remind us all that white daddy is a jerk but jerks and spoiled kids come in all colours, sizes, shapes, genders and sexual orientation and I'm not convinced that elevating one group over another makes things any better. 

Schools have sufficient rules in place to protect all students and making any one group more special than another sets them up for problems.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

wr said:


> Kids are going to get hurt feelings once in a while and it's way easier to blame it on racism that to simply remind kids that things don't always go their way.
> 
> You're quick to remind us all that white daddy is a jerk but jerks and spoiled kids come in all colours, sizes, shapes, genders and sexual orientation and I'm not convinced that elevating one group over another makes things any better.
> 
> Schools have sufficient rules in place to protect all students and making any one group more special than another sets them up for problems.


Come on now, do you really believe rules prevent racism, or that the students experiences were all just hurt feelings?

I also don't believe ignoring or explaining away problems as normal childhood squabbles will magically make them go away.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

doozie said:


> Come on now, do you really believe rules prevent racism, or that the students experiences were all just hurt feelings?
> 
> I also don't believe ignoring or explaining away problems as normal childhood squabbles will magically make them go away.


Perhaps you missed the part where I am a visible minority and so are my children. I know exactly what racism looks like. Do you? 

I deal with very little racism because I prefer not to look for it around every corner and I refuse to be a victim and taught my kids the same.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

wr said:


> Perhaps you missed the part where I am a visible minority and so are my children. I know exactly what racism looks like. Do you?
> 
> I deal with very little racism because I prefer not to look for it around every corner and I refuse to be a victim and taught my kids the same.


Perhaps, watching more television will help.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

wr said:


> Perhaps you missed the part where I am a visible minority and so are my children. I know exactly what racism looks like. Do you?
> 
> I deal with very little racism because I prefer not to look for it around every corner and I refuse to be a victim and taught my kids the same.


I am a minority too. There are those that try to force us into the victim status, I refuse to be pushed and I will push back.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

wr said:


> Perhaps you missed the part where I am a visible minority and so are my children. I know exactly what racism looks like. Do you?
> 
> I deal with very little racism because I prefer not to look for it around every corner and I refuse to be a victim and taught my kids the same.


You are asking me if I know what racism looks like?!? Really?
Yes, I do.

I've met full blown racists, I've seen deragatory racist terms enter a young child's vocabulary.

Racism existed in my own family when my sister married outside of our race. There were very ugly cringe worthy experiences and words exchanged, pretty hard to ignore by the way....if it exists within your family walls when you are a child there is no avoiding it.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

doozie said:


> You are asking me if I know what racism looks like?!? Really?
> Yes, I do.
> 
> I've met full blown racists, I've seen deragatory racist terms enter a young child's vocabulary.
> ...


You sound like you need to find a safe space.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

wr said:


> Perhaps you missed the part where I am a visible minority and so are my children. I know exactly what racism looks like. Do you?
> 
> I deal with very little racism because I prefer not to look for it around every corner and I refuse to be a victim and taught my kids the same.


Not to be condescending but it's really hard to read your skin color in an internet post. So, yes, I did miss the part about you being a visible minority. Not like I would treat you any different if I did know.

The closest I came to experiencing racism, personally, was once at work when I walked into the break room and a bunch of people of a certain race were listening to Al Sharpton saying how inherently evil and racist all white people are. 

I have experienced sex discrimination and endured 5 years of living heck for a physical disability but not racism.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

doozie said:


> You are asking me if I know what racism looks like?!? Really?
> Yes, I do.
> 
> I've met full blown racists, I've seen deragatory racist terms enter a young child's vocabulary.
> ...


So what's the solution?


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

doozie said:


> You are asking me if I know what racism looks like?!? Really?
> Yes, I do.
> 
> I've met full blown racists, I've seen deragatory racist terms enter a young child's vocabulary.
> ...


My family has members, nieces, nephews, spouses, grandchildren, etc of different races and mixed heritage.
All are equal, just different.
When we lose the ability to be different or be OK with different, the Socialists have won.
Should we all be divided and at each others throats all the time or should we just accept the fact we are what we are and stop trying so hard to be offended?
Shouldn't we be one people?
Just people.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> My family has members, nieces, nephews, spouses, grandchildren, etc of different races and mixed heritage.
> All are equal, just different.
> When we lose the ability to be different or be OK with different, the Socialists have won.
> Should we all be divided and at each others throats all the time or should we just accept the fact we are what we are and stop trying so hard to be offended?
> ...


Beautiful sentiment, beautiful statement


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Danaus29 said:


> Not to be condescending but it's really hard to read your skin color in an internet post. So, yes, I did miss the part about you being a visible minority. Not like I would treat you any different if I did know.
> 
> The closest I came to experiencing racism, personally, was once at work when I walked into the break room and a bunch of people of a certain race were listening to Al Sharpton saying how inherently evil and racist all white people are.
> 
> I have experienced sex discrimination and endured 5 years of living heck for a physical disability but not racism.


It doesn't matter that I'm a bit darker than someone else and quite honestly, all the handbooks and printed material won't change true racists. 

I find that if I worry about the true racists, I give them control of my emotional health. Clumsy questions never bother me because I have a strong desire to learn about other cultures so I ask a lot of questions of those I know. I always start by telling them I want to understand, not offend and remind them they only have to answer questions they are comfortable answering. To date, nobody has denied me the opportunity to learn. 

There is a huge difference in feeling marginalized and true racism. Feeling marginalized allows the opportunity for discussion but nobody is going to change the mind of a bigot.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

i was kind of racist when I was teaching school. I liked the Hispanic kids best. Seems they liked this old white cowboy best of the teachers, too .


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

whiterock said:


> i was kind of racist when I was teaching school. I liked the Hispanic kids best. Seems they liked this old white cowboy best of the teachers, too .


My wife was racist too hiring people when she managed large apartment complexes. She liked Hispanics because they were smart and hard working, had a stable home life.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I guess I could be considered racist. After having several bad experiences with doctors from India, I feel very uncomfortable if I have to see a doctor from India. It has nothing to do with their skin color, just their culture and how they are taught to treat certain people.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Danaus29 said:


> I guess I could be considered racist. After having several bad experiences with doctors from India, I feel very uncomfortable if I have to see a doctor from India. It has nothing to do with their skin color, just their culture and how they are taught to treat certain people.


I think it's important to have a good relationship with your doctor and if you weren't treated well, there's no reason to go back. 

I won't go back to the South African doctor in town ever again and it's not because of colour either. He declared me cured of a thyroid condition and refused to renew my prescription any further medication. I questioned if that was possible, he asked me which one of us was a 'real' doctor and literally shooed me out of his office.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

The dad is in the wrong. He seems to think racism has ended. He's definitely wrong. Racism still exists. The school is doing something that most public schools aren't. They're addressing the issue right now before it gets worse. I also think the dad may be having money issues and trying to save face by saying the school is wrong and pulls out his kid so he doesn't have to pay their sky high fees.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Yep, there may be some racism in schools.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

TedH71 said:


> The dad is in the wrong. He seems to think racism has ended. He's definitely wrong. Racism still exists. The school is doing something that most public schools aren't. They're addressing the issue right now before it gets worse. I also think the dad may be having money issues and trying to save face by saying the school is wrong and pulls out his kid so he doesn't have to pay their sky high fees.


Race relations between blacks and everyone else has tanked in the last 10 years.

Robin DeAngelo does not have the answer. She and her teachings are the problem.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

TedH71 said:


> The dad is in the wrong. He seems to think racism has ended. He's definitely wrong. Racism still exists. The school is doing something that most public schools aren't. They're addressing the issue right now before it gets worse. I also think the dad may be having money issues and trying to save face by saying the school is wrong and pulls out his kid so he doesn't have to pay their sky high fees.


Racism will always exist. It always has.
Organizations like BLM and self loathing Caucasians are nothing more than hammers. Someone is white? They are a nail. They live in the suburbs, have money to invest, own a business? They are a nail.
No one should be afraid to go someplace because of the color of their skin; currently, it is quite dangerous to be white. And btw, anyone can see the statistics of whites being shot while resisting arrest, assuming your media provider doesn't censure it.
I have to ask why any parent would go to the trouble of writing a letter opposing a school's agenda simply because they were broke and wanted to avoid embarrassment. Wouldn't they rather of kept a lower profile and avoid the public scrutiny?
Does someone have a link laying out this parent's financials?


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

A student rebuttal of the letter.








A Rebuttal to Andrew Gutmann’s Letter


On April 16, a snail mail letter from Andrew Gutmann, an angry parent at the Brearley School, arrived in the mailboxes of hundreds...




www.theirisnyc.com


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

TedH71 said:


> The dad is in the wrong. He seems to think racism has ended. He's definitely wrong. Racism still exists. The school is doing something that most public schools aren't. They're addressing the issue right now before it gets worse. I also think the dad may be having money issues and trying to save face by saying the school is wrong and pulls out his kid so he doesn't have to pay their sky high fees.


I don't think that is what he said at all. The way I understood it is you can't replace racism with other forms of racism. Even if it is the popular thing to do right now.


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## Deniser60 (May 24, 2018)

doozie said:


> Hate to break it to the father, but many Universities and Corporations/Workplaces his daughter may encounter in her future make a statements or pledge to fight Racism.
> 
> I'm surprised at his reaction more than anything. Sending a letter out to every family as If they didn't know the schools position, or didnt sign the pledge themselves.
> He seems to think the Civil rights act ended systemic racism...poof! It's gone.
> ...


In reading his entire letter, it seems he is stepping out with his objections that other families appear to also share.
Copied:
Over the past several months, I have personally spoken to many Brearley parents as well as parents of children at peer institutions. It is abundantly clear that the majority of parents believe that Brearley’s antiracism policies are misguided, divisive, counterproductive and cancerous. Many believe, as I do, that these policies will ultimately destroy what was until recently, a wonderful educational institution. But as I am sure will come as no surprise to you, given the insidious cancel culture that has of late permeated our society, most parents are too fearful to speak up. 
But speak up you must. There is strength in numbers and I assure you, the numbers are there. Contact the administration and the Board of Trustees and demand an end to the destructive and anti-intellectual claptrap known as antiracism. And if changes are not forthcoming then demand new leadership. For the sake of our community, our city, our country and most of all, our children, silence is no longer an option.
He is imploring parents to be part of solution to an insidious, destructive mindset that is further dividing this country and if comes to nothing, he is willing to leave. 
I applaud him and his “personal responsibility” logic.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Every parent sending their child to the school knows the policies in place. it is hard to believe the "majority" of pledge signing parents send their child off everyday to be "brainwashed" with policies they don't agree with. 

I had a co worker always complaining to management on company policy, one day they'd heard enough and gently suggested "maybe this is not the place you want to work"


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I'm curious why anyone demanding equality for all instead of equality for some is always considered a bigotry. 

Schools have made a point of showcasing black authors and black culture that doesn't make it an inclusive environment at all and serves to show students that some races are more equal than others.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

I think that's the whole point right there....
Public or Private school


https://steinhardt.nyu.edu/metrocenter/why-public-school-curriculum-still-whites-only-2018



This type of White-dominated curriculum ignores decades of research showing that students learn best when they feel connected to the content of their learning, and when their own identities are reflected. Perhaps the best example of this is in Tucson, AZ, where students who participated in the Mexican-American Studies program had significantly greater test scores in math, reading, and writing and were significantly more likely to graduate from high school. They were more engaged in literature and history lessons, and more likely to have a positive perception of their ability to succeed in math and science. There are dozens of other studies from across the country showing similar results (see Browman, 2011; Butler-Barnes, 2017; Carter, 2008; Dee & Penner 2016; Morell, 2013).

Parents from CEJ released this curriculum analysis and are using it to highlight the prevalence of White-dominated curriculum and call for a revamp of public school curriculum to reflect the rich diversity of NYC students. In support of this effort, the NYU Metro Center will be releasing a Culturally Responsive Curriculum Scorecard that parents, educators, and students in NYC and across the country can use to evaluate the extent and manner in which their curriculum represents diverse populations.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

So, you saying that white kids should have their own classes and black theirs?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

doozie said:


> I think that's the whole point right there....
> Public or Private school
> 
> 
> ...


The article you posted with the rebuttal indicated that the student was quite happy with the black focused literature program. I'm sure there must be students of other races and cultures within the same private school. Do you think they feel appeased by a black focused literature program or could unhappy dad be on to something? 

It would be extremely helpful if you offered opinions rather than linking articles.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

The student rebuttal noted Columbian and Japanese authors in addition to a black author.
I believe it would be difficult to have a curriculum that could feature all cultures.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

doozie said:


> The student rebuttal noted Columbian and Japanese authors in addition to a black author.
> I believe it would be difficult to have a curriculum that could feature all cultures.


Since there are a higher percentage of Hispanics maybe to be fair they should have more representation? But if we are playing the game, let the others in too.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

I have no idea if Hispanic authors are represented in the schools curriculum based on the rebuttal, but I would assume so. Why wouldn't they?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

no really said:


> But if we are playing the game, let the others in too.


I brought my own dice.
If your neighbor tells a single lie does that make him a liar?
If he uses a single racial epithet does that make him a racist?
Please conserve your pecking finger to the yes or no key and save your strength for the diatribes to come.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

no really said:


> Since there are a higher percentage of Hispanics maybe to be fair they should have more representation? But if we are playing the game, let the others in too.


It appears that many school districts recognize National Hispanic Month 
One example








Join Us In Celebrating National Hispanic Heritage Month September 15 - October 15 - Urbandale Schools


Join us in celebrating our Hispanic and Latinx students, families, staff, and community members during National Hispanic Heritage Month! Every year, the United States honors the history and legacy of Hispanic and Latinx people by observing National Hispanic Heritage Month. From September 15 to...




www.urbandaleschools.com





We’d like to take time to recognize and honor our students and staff of Latinx descent. We’d also like to empower and educate our non Latinx students and staff surrounding the contributions and impact Latinx people made and continue to make in our community, state, nation, and world. We are #strongerwithU!


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

doozie said:


> It appears that many school districts recognize National Hispanic Month
> One example
> 
> 
> ...


I am not latinx, whatever the heck that means I'm Hispanic.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Celebrating Hispanic Heritage Month – Holyoke Public Schools







www.hps.holyoke.ma.us






As a description seen below, I don't know though.... it's either/or ???


The City of Holyoke has a rich and beautiful history of Hispanic people making profound contributions across all sectors of the community, and that tradition continues today. Holyoke Public Schools proudly serves nearly 4,200 students (about 81% of our enrollment) who identify as Hispanic or Latino/a/x. We also are proud that our staff includes so many Hispanic and Latinx individuals leading, educating, and supporting our students throughout the school district. As a Hispanic myself, who came to the mainland U.S. from Puerto Rico at a young age as an English Learner, I join our Hispanic and Latino/s/x students, families, and staff in celebrating our experiences and journeys during this month and beyond.

Over the next four weeks, we will share with the community through our website and social media platforms some of the creative ways that our schools showcase and celebrate Hispanic heritage and the innovative ways that our teachers incorporate the history of Hispanics in America into their lessons in art, literature, music, social studies, world languages, and more.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> As a description seen below, I don't know though.... it's either/or ???


You have impressed us all immensely with your Google skills. Not so much beyond that.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

HDRider said:


> You have impressed us all immensely with your Google skills. Not so much beyond that.


Does it bother you that much to have information presented with a link?

Sorry you think I'm trying to impress anyone, LOL...

Sheesh, you might want to look at your own posts, 3 links long and little else in some cases, hahaha!


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Ziptie said:


> So, you saying that white kids should have their own classes and black theirs?


No


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

doozie said:


> Every parent sending their child to the school knows the policies in place. it is hard to believe the "majority" of pledge signing parents send their child off everyday to be "brainwashed" with policies they don't agree with.
> 
> I had a co worker always complaining to management on company policy, one day they'd heard enough and gently suggested "maybe this is not the place you want to work"


Sounds pretty much like the feelings the dad has toward the school.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

doozie said:


> The student rebuttal noted Columbian and Japanese authors in addition to a black author.
> I believe it would be difficult to have a curriculum that could feature all cultures.


Then do it correctly and focus on the students and not on some race issue.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

doozie said:


> It appears that many school districts recognize National Hispanic Month
> One example
> 
> 
> ...



Don't you see the problem with this. 
Ok,so we have Hispanic history month, then Black American history month, then Asian history month, then Jewish history month, Transgender history month, Islander history month, Middle Eastern history month, African History month. The kids are so busy celebrating this stuff every month no time to teach other things like math, science, etc. 

I have I no problem with the kids learning things about other cultures, but if you want true equality if you celebrate one your going to have to celebrate them all.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

^^^^^


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Ziptie said:


> Don't you see the problem with this.
> Ok,so we have Hispanic history month, then Black American history month, then Asian history month, then Jewish history month, Transgender history month, Islander history month, Middle Eastern history month, African History month. The kids are so busy celebrating this stuff every month no time to teach other things like math, science, etc.
> 
> I have I no problem with the kids learning things about other cultures, but if you want true equality if you celebrate one your going to have to celebrate them all.


Where has it been suggested anyone should be left out?
Any subject could recognize or celebrate the contributions made by any and all.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Ziptie said:


> Don't you see the problem with this.
> Ok,so we have Hispanic history month, then Black American history month, then Asian history month, then Jewish history month, Transgender history month, Islander history month, Middle Eastern history month, African History month. The kids are so busy celebrating this stuff every month no time to teach other things like math, science, etc.
> 
> I have I no problem with the kids learning things about other cultures, but if you want true equality if you celebrate one your going to have to celebrate them all.


There's only 12 months in a year, someone is gonna be left out.

I was mulling the race issue over the other day and realized that whenever I am filling out forms that ask my race there are a myriad of options that sound nice, like "pacific islander", "native american", "african american" "hispanic/latino"....and then the option i have to tick off is a clumsy and most ungraceful sounding choice, "white". That's racist, why can't I also be something dignified sounding like 'western european" or whatever?? White shaming needs to stop and so does race division on paperwork. It should not even come up as a question if equality is important.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

The census asked whites their origins last year. I felt no shame in my response...


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

So which month will be white history month? And will everyone be forced to acknowledge it?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I just listened to a mother talk to my wife about her son. The kid just came home from college and believes there is no such thing as black racism.
If a minority is being oppressed by whites then they can't be racists since they have no privilege and live from a position of discrimination.
That has to make writing the next tuition check so much more enjoyable.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Change


doozie said:


> Celebrating Hispanic Heritage Month – Holyoke Public Schools
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some get a month and others get a curriculum. That still sounds like some are more equal than others.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

GTX63 said:


> I just listened to a mother talk to my wife about her son. The kid just came home from college and believes there is no such thing as black racism.
> If a minority is being oppressed by whites then they can't be racists since they have no privilege and live from a position of discrimination.
> That has to make writing the next tuition check so much more enjoyable.


That kid will grow up one day and see.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

wr said:


> Change
> 
> 
> Some get a month and others get a curriculum. That still sounds like some are more equal than others.


I'm sure there will be a parent somewhere down the line that will point that out and probably pull their kid from the school as a result too.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

I do feel like it's time for parents to make a stand regarding their kids' education. Public school, private school, charter schools, doesn't matter. Those parents who have been going along to get along for years now are beginning to stand up against just how ridiculous things have gotten in our schools. Maybe the only way to stop this is for parents to protest and pull their kids out.

I can tell you the public school district here has utterly failed one of my children (who by the way has an IEP they cant seem to address). I pulled him from the school, it really seemed to me that him being in their district was a cash grab and not an attempt to help him.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

doozie said:


> I'm sure there will be a parent somewhere down the line that will point that out and probably pull their kid from the school as a result too.


Why is the belief that some minorities are more equal than others warrant derision? If the schools want to claim equality, it needs to be equal for all and at this point, there seems to be quite a few minority students left out.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

wr said:


> Why is the belief that some minorities are more equal than others warrant derision? If the schools want to claim equality, it needs to be equal for all and at this point, there seems to be quite a few minority students left out.


And this is why we strive to teach in a culturally sensitive way -- inclusion and respect toward ALL cultures and ethnicities that are present in the classroom.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

wr said:


> Why is the belief that some minorities are more equal than others warrant derision? If the schools want to claim equality, it needs to be equal for all and at this point, there seems to be quite a few minority students left out.


I have no idea if quite a few minority students are being left out of schools that embrace or profess inclusion, be it in their school libraries, curriculum, celebrations, etc.

I would think if a parent had a concern about their child actually being excluded it could/might/would be addressed if brought up. 

I personally find it hard to believe anyone would actually insist on such a measured form of equal recognition as you and others seem to be trying to define it.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

SLFarmMI said:


> And this is why we strive to teach in a culturally sensitive way -- inclusion and respect toward ALL cultures and ethnicities that are present in the classroom.


Thanks. That makes a whole lot more sense than modifying a curriculum to suit the perceived needs of one minority.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

doozie said:


> I have no idea if quite a few minority students are being left out of schools that embrace or profess inclusion, be it in their school libraries, curriculum, celebrations, etc.
> 
> I would think if a parent had a concern about their child actually being excluded it could/might/would be addressed if brought up.
> 
> I personally find it hard to believe anyone would actually insist on such a measured form of equal recognition as you and others seem to be trying to define it.


Your comment seems to contradict that of an experienced educator.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

wr said:


> Your comment seems to contradict that of an experienced educator.


I honestly don't understand what it is you are trying to get across to me, or you just don't understand what it is I'm saying at this point.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

2 plus 2 is still 4. Gravity still works the same. Race has nothing to do with it. Treat the kids as students. Done deal.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

doozie said:


> I honestly don't understand what it is you are trying to get across to me, or you just don't understand what it is I'm saying at this point.


Unfortunately, posting links to articles and offering no opinion, it’s hard to understand what point you’re trying to make.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

wr said:


> Unfortunately, posting links to articles and offering no opinion, it’s hard to understand what point you’re trying to make.


The rebuttal was presenting another point of view from a Student, my opinion makes no difference.

Another was to point out a white only based curriculum was/is the norm and that is the entire point of changing things to be more inclusive.

Change doesn't have to be all or nothing.
It would be difficult to represent all cultures equally.
Adding books written by people of color to the curriculum or library doesn't make them better or worse than those written by white authors, they are quite simply included in addition.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

How many people know _The Three Musketeers_ was written by a black man?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

doozie said:


> The rebuttal was presenting another point of view from a Student, my opinion makes no difference.
> 
> Another was to point out a white only based curriculum was/is the norm and that is the entire point of changing things to be more inclusive.
> 
> ...


I don't have any problem with switching authors within a curriculum from time to time, I do have a problem with the student's letter that indicated that the school had switched to a black author focus. 

If it's difficult to represent all cultures, it's something that needs to be considered carefully because schools will find they've opened Pandora's Box and the next minority that wants a change will be expecting the same courtesy.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I'll leave you with an interesting quote from my friend Wun Feather, 'Race implies a contest where someone will win.'


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> How many people know _The Three Musketeers_ was written by a black man?


Yes, his mother was a slave iirc.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> My wife was racist too hiring people when she managed large apartment complexes. She liked Hispanics because they were smart and hard working, had a stable home life.


Same here. They often charge less, too.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

wr said:


> I don't have any problem with switching authors within a curriculum from time to time, I do have a problem with the student's letter that indicated that the school had switched to a black author focus.
> 
> If it's difficult to represent all cultures, it's something that needs to be considered carefully because schools will find they've opened Pandora's Box and the next minority that wants a change will be expecting the same courtesy.


But it was not just a black focus, the student notes she hadn't read a book from a white author this year, and the books she noted included authors other than black. 

I think they've made a change without waiting or needing to be asked. 

Who better to comment on it other than one of the students.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Just something to think about.









What Is A Savior Complex?


The general definition of someone suffering from a savior complex is a person who feels responsible for saving or helping others, even if that provision of service is detrimental to one or both of those people, over time.




www.scienceabc.com





People who seek out power or find themselves unexpectedly in positions of power often develop such ideas about themselves; after all, their employees, citizens or dependents count on the leader’s competence, permission, wisdom, generosity etc. to survive. In the sense of power “going to someone’s head”, it can definitely twist up someone’s perspective of the world. This state of being is often linked to having delusions of grandeur, but it is not technically a diagnosable psychological disorder.

*You think you’re the only one who can help*
Saviors often feel driven to save others because they believe no one else can. This ties back to fantasies of omnipotence.

Maybe you don’t really believe you’re all-powerful. But believing you have the ability to rescue someone or improve their life comes from a similar place.

This belief can also imply a sense of superiority. Even if you don’t have a conscious awareness of this, it can come across in the way you treat your partner. For example, maybe you take on a parental role by patronizing or correcting them.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

no really said:


> Just something to think about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

no really said:


> Just something to think about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can see some of that from certain people.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

doozie said:


> But it was not just a black focus, the student notes she hadn't read a book from a white author this year, and the books she noted included authors other than black.
> 
> I think they've made a change without waiting or needing to be asked.
> 
> Who better to comment on it other than one of the students.


I don't disagree that students will have preferences but I'd like to hear how a broad range of students find it before forming an opinion. 

Part of my concerns come from a curriculum update in my own province and it's causing a great deal of friction for the reasons I mention. 

The newly formed black teacher's association is outraged because the new curriculum doesn't go far enough to satisfy their needs, the first nations teacher's are refusing to accept the new curriculum at all because they lost ground to black equality and the LGBTQ absolutely feels they lack exposure and need changes that reflect their perspective. 

Do we tell all those kids to just go home or just keep making changes every time another group yells loud enough?


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

wr said:


> I don't disagree that students will have preferences but I'd like to hear how a broad range of students find it before forming an opinion.
> 
> Part of my concerns come from a curriculum update in my own province and it's causing a great deal of friction for the reasons I mention.
> 
> ...


Sometimes I think the kids might be capable of handling change better than the adults.

I understand what you are saying better now too, since you've given an actual example.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

doozie said:


> Who better to comment on it other than one of the students.


Maybe their parents? You know, the people that are legally allowed to make decisions that they are no legally allowed to make for themselves? Do you think there are valid reasons that kids can't vote, drink, smoke, drive, sign contracts, and on and on?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

doozie said:


> Sometimes I think the kids might be capable of handling change better than the adults.
> 
> I understand what you are saying better now too, since you've given an actual example.


It's also why I have an understanding of the father's point.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

todd_xxxx said:


> Maybe their parents? You know, the people that are legally allowed to make decisions that they are no legally allowed to make for themselves? Do you think there are valid reasons that kids can't vote, drink, smoke, drive, sign contracts, and on and on?


Is this a serious question?!?

Did the parent take the class or did the student...


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

doozie said:


> Is this a serious question?!?
> 
> Did the parent take the class or did the student...


Yes, it's a serious question. The daughter of the man that wrote the letter is 12. How much say do you think she should have over the curriculum?


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

todd_xxxx said:


> Yes, it's a serious question. The daughter of the man that wrote the letter is 12. How much say do you think she should have over the curriculum?


And the student I was speaking of in my reply and the rebuttal letter is 17 and was commenting on her experience with the new curriculum.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

The point of the entire thread is what the father thinks of what his 12 year old is being taught. He pays nearly $60,000 a year to a school that appears be be eating the "woke" soup, and doesn't care for it. I doubt that it matters to him what the random 17 year old thinks. I remember being 17. I thought I knew what was important then too. I was wrong.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

todd_xxxx said:


> The point of the entire thread is what the father thinks of what his 12 year old is being taught. He pays nearly $60,000 a year to a school that appears be be eating the "woke" soup, and doesn't care for it. I doubt that it matters to him what the random 17 year old thinks. I remember being 17. I thought I knew what was important then too. I was wrong.


He has every right to his opinion, to challenge the administration, or pull his kid.

I doubt he speaks for all the parents of the school that he sent his letter to, or that they needed him to speak out for them. 
With all things considered, I doubt he cares what the other parents think and they pay for their kids to be there too. LOL


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

There is always more to the story. This man told the school he was leaving because he was moving to Florida for financial reasons. Now he is saying he's moving to Florida because of the school's curriculum.

Look like a bit of grandstanding on his part.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

doozie said:


> He has every right to his opinion, to challenge the administration, or pull his kid.
> 
> I doubt he speaks for all the parents of the school that he sent his letter to, or that they needed him to speak out for them.
> With all things considered, I doubt he cares what the other parents think and they pay for their kids to be there too. LOL


So you don't think that the average person is tired of hearing that everything from Dr. Seuss to cheese is racist? That "white privilege" is an epidemic? By way of my job, I come into contact with many, many people from every possible walk of life. I don't know anyone, that is, not one single person, that thinks race relations in this country are getting better because of this "woke" nonsense. Do you think all the screaming from BLM groups is helping race relations? How about being so "culturally sensitive" that Dr Seuss is being condemned? Do you think "safe spaces" are preparing our children for life?

I would bet my last dollar that far more people care about exactly the things that man put in his letter than are willing to say them, for fear of being the next target of the liberal mob. You know the ones. They are the people that scream for diversity and respect for all people until you have a different opinion than they do. Diversity, by all means, unless you mean diversity of opinion.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

doozie said:


> Is this a serious question?!?
> 
> Did the parent take the class or did the student...


The parent of the child should make the decisions for that child. The “students” opinion of the class or school should have little to do with anything. Apparently the parent in question is doing just that, its a good thing regardless of the reason or any students thoughts.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Well fine, if you really want another parent speaking for you or your kid...and you agree with him then.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

doozie said:


> Well fine, if you really want another parent speaking for you or your kid...and you agree with him then.


How about a teacher?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> There is always more to the story. This man told the school he was leaving because he was moving to Florida for financial reasons. Now he is saying he's moving to Florida because of the school's curriculum.
> 
> Look like a bit of grandstanding on his part.


I did a quick search and I believe you are confusing two different events. Andrew Gutman wrote the letter and withdrew his daughter from Brearly and Harvey Goldman withdrew his his child from Heshel School to move to Florida.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Redlands Okie said:


> The parent of the child should make the decisions for that child. The “students” opinion of the class or school should have little to do with anything. Apparently the parent in question is doing just that, its a good thing regardless of the reason or any students thoughts.


If the New York Post is to be believed, there are more than just one dad upset about his child being force fed the critical race theory. 









Inside the growing underground network of parents fighting ‘anti-racism’ in NYC schools


Until last summer, Harvey Goldman had no idea that his 9-year-old daughter was learning about George Floyd’s death and Black Lives Matter as well as her own “white privilege” at t…




nypost.com


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

doozie said:


> Well fine, if you really want another parent speaking for you or your kid...and you agree with him then.


He didn't speak for anyone else or their kid. He sent his concerns to the school and the other parents. 

What I want is for kids to be taught to think for themselves, not be bullied into following the liberal woke mob that represents far fewer Americans than the liberal media would have people believe.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

todd_xxxx said:


> He didn't speak for anyone else or their kid. He sent his concerns to the school and the other parents.
> 
> What I want is for kids to be taught to think for themselves, not be bullied into following the liberal woke mob that represents far fewer Americans than the liberal media would have people believe.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

todd_xxxx said:


> He didn't speak for anyone else or their kid. He sent his concerns to the school and the other parents.
> 
> What I want is for kids to be taught to think for themselves, not be bullied into following the liberal woke mob that represents far fewer Americans than the liberal media would have people believe.


I must have misunderstood you

"I would bet my last dollar that far more people care about exactly the things that man put in his letter than are willing to say them, for fear of being the next target of the liberal mob. "


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Redlands Okie said:


> The parent of the child should make the decisions for that child. The “students” opinion of the class or school should have little to do with anything. Apparently the parent in question is doing just that, its a good thing regardless of the reason or any students thoughts.





doozie said:


> Well fine, if you really want another parent speaking for you or your kid...and you agree with him then.


If you will notice, I used the word “parent” and was careful to do so. He made his opinions clear and public and seems to be wiling to act on them for the good of his child. Yay for him. Now other parents can do what they think is best for their children, providing they have the fortitude to do so. They could even make it public if they have the courage to do so.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Redlands Okie said:


> If you will notice, I used the word “parent” and was careful to do so. He made his opinions clear and public and seems to be wiling to act on them for the good of his child. Yay for him. Now other parents can do what they think is best for their children, providing they have the fortitude to do so. They could even make it public if they have the courage to do so.


Of course they can, they have always had that option.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

doozie said:


> I must have misunderstood you
> 
> "I would bet my last dollar that far more people care about exactly the things that man put in his letter than are willing to say them, for fear of being the next target of the liberal mob. "


I'm not sure what you're having trouble understanding.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

todd_xxxx said:


> I'm not sure what you're having trouble understanding.


I think you are having trouble understanding, I said I doubt he speaks for all the parents originally.
Then you came up with the fearful parents comment and betting your bottom dollar.

I said IF you want him speaking for you or you kids.

By the way, do the parents of the kids or the kids themselves that claim racial incidents at the school get a say?


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

doozie said:


> I think you are having trouble understanding, I said I doubt he speaks for all the parents originally.
> Then you came up with the fearful parents comment and betting your bottom dollar.
> 
> I said IF you want him speaking for you or you kids.
> ...


I'm not sure you're capable of making a logical argument, so how about we just ignore each other?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

doozie said:


> I think you are having trouble understanding, I said I doubt he speaks for all the parents originally.
> Then you came up with the fearful parents comment and betting your bottom dollar.
> 
> I said IF you want him speaking for you or you kids.
> ...


No child should be subjected to racism and schools have rules in place to deal with such issues but I would suggest that white kids being subjected to Critical Race Theory is also a form of racisim. 

I have read several articles about parents who have expressed concern about CTR in their schools and faced backlash so others may be reluctant to speak out. 

Do you feel there is some benefit it making caucasian students feel badly in classrooms?


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

todd_xxxx said:


> I'm not sure you're capable of making a logical argument, so how about we just ignore each other?


That's your best bet!


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

doozie said:


> I think you are having trouble understanding, I said I doubt he speaks for all the parents originally.
> Then you came up with the fearful parents comment and betting your bottom dollar.
> 
> I said IF you want him speaking for you or you kids.
> ...


The kids should be talking about any school problems with their parents. Thats the only say the kids get, after all they are children. The parents can then decide what they think needs to be done and talk to those they need to.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

wr said:


> No child should be subjected to racism and schools have rules in place to deal with such issues but I would suggest that white kids being subjected to Critical Race Theory is also a form of racisim.
> 
> I have read several articles about parents who have expressed concern about CTR in their schools and faced backlash so others may be reluctant to speak out.
> 
> Do you feel there is some benefit it making caucasian students feel badly in classrooms?


No, there is no benefit in making any child feel badly, where was that suggested?

I don't know exactly what is being taught in the OP Brearley school, if it's hurtful, or how it is presented, I may or many not agree with all of it either for that matter.

The father is making sweeping "objections" that come off as opinion rather than fact.

It's interesting he brings all of this up on his way out the door, and his child would still finish up the year there. It would appear she wasn't made to feel badly at all.


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