# The bees love these!



## marusempai (Sep 16, 2007)

We have three of these trees, and they are massive - like as tall as my house - and have so many honey bees in them that they buzz! Anybody know what they are?


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Can you possibly provide some close up pictures of the remaining flowers before they all drop off? From what I can see of the flowers it looks like it might be some kind of elderberry tree. There are several species of elder with variations in the leaves and in the colour and edibility of the berries - berries may be red, blue or black depending on species. But it's hard to say without seeing a close up of the flowers and leaf edges. The leaves look like they could be elder leaves but it's hard to tell in your picture if they have serrated edges or not.

Did the flower clusters look anything like this before they all started dropping off? This is common red elderberry.


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## Ozark Mountain Jewel (Jul 12, 2009)

looks like common elderberry to me, Sambucus spp. The flowers and berries are very medicinal and edible although if you take the flower umbels you won;t get berries. I learned to place a net under the umbels to catch the falling little flowers. You might also want to net the berry heads once berries start forming. the birds love them!


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## Ozark Mountain Jewel (Jul 12, 2009)

Always double check and be positive of what you're eating or using for medicinals. Never take one person's word for anything, anyone can be mistaken.

You might be able to send the photos to your local conservation office or DNR.


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Good advice from Crowweaver but if it turns out it's common red elderberry I wouldn't recommend it for any medicinal or food purposes unless you test it first for adverse reactions. 

Cyanoglycoside sambunigrin (to put it simply, it's a form of cyanide) is found in varying degrees in all of the sambucus species but the red varieties have more cyanoglycoside sambunigrin in them than the blue or black varieties, with black _Sambucus *****_ having the very least amount of cyanoglycoside sambunigrin of all sambucus species. 

Of the reds, there is less cyanoglycoside sambunigrin in the red elders found in eastern North America and the most cyanoglycoside sambunigrin is found in the red elder that grows on the west coast, making the western variety the most toxic of all varieties of elders. Birds are about the only living thing that can tolerate the western red elderberries with no ill effects. Eastern red may be tolerable to some people but generally they may be expected to cause nausea and other digestive problems in humans. Some people may react badly to the eastern red's flowers too. Thus the importance of testing the eastern reds for adverse reactions in all family members. 

Black elderberry (Sambucus _*****_) has the largest, sweetest and most easily harvested berries, it is the least toxic of all sambucus species and commercially it's what gets used the most for medicinal and food purposes. All parts of the black can be used for a number of medicinal purposes but the berries are what are sought out the most for making medicinal elderberry syrups, and for beverages, wines and preserves.


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## marusempai (Sep 16, 2007)

It's in a really unfortunate location for getting good pictures, alas - hard to do without falling in the creek or into an electric fence. Tried again with a more stable step stool, hopefully these are better. The leaves are definitely not serrated. Found one with some nicely developing berries, and one that was still mostly buds. There are a couple of open flowers on that one, hope they are visible...


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

> The leaves are definitely not serrated.


If the leaves are definitely not serrated then I'd say that rules out any kind of sambucus (elderberry). To the best of my knowledge all sambucus species have serrated edges on the leaves. Some kinds have very fine teeth and some have very pronounced teeth but they do all have the toothy serrations on them.

Those immature berries are purplish now but they look like they will be very dark purple, dark blue or black when mature. The pictures of the flowers were too fuzzy.

It's a mystery to me. Hopefully somebody else who is local will be familiar with it.


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Okay, I've been doing some research and am now convinced that it's a type of sumac (_Rhus_) and 95% sure that it is Winged sumac, aka Shining sumac. 5% not positive that's the variety because it doesn't grow in my location so haven't personally seen this variety and also there are 2 or 3 other types of sumacs that have white flowers that look like yours and grow in your location. There's also a Laurel Sumac that has identical flowers and berries but grows in more arid regions in the west and the leaves fold up in the heat so I don't think it's Laurel sumac you have. Winged sumac can have stark white to greenish yellow or ivory flowers that look like your white flowers, same kind of smooth, broad leaves and same leaf growth habit and not serrated on edges, same colour and shape of berries (reddish-purple berries), grows nearby water, grows in your state and attracts thousands of bees and other pollinators like nobody's business and even birds will eat the flowers. The flowers and berries on your plants do look like birds have already been chowing down on them

Check those berries to see if they have anything like a type of very soft, fine fuzz or fine, silky, hairy kind of surface on them and that should help confirm it's a sumac. 

Here's some information for your area's varieties of white flowered sumacs: http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=79


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

I don't think it's winged sumac. Winged sumac has "wings" between the leaves.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...534&thid=JN.WxX3Vpk2DTIKkdfJHE86ag&ajaxhist=0


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

dizzy said:


> I don't think it's winged sumac. Winged sumac has "wings" between the leaves.
> 
> http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...534&thid=JN.WxX3Vpk2DTIKkdfJHE86ag&ajaxhist=0


You're right. Good catch. :thumb:

(I'm going to have to start using Bing for images searches, the pictures there are much larger and clearer than the sources I was using.)


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