# How to prepare or do we even need to?



## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Soooo- this whole thing with Russia- I see the dow is down all the sudden- that isn't my main concern-
how and what do we need to stock up on?

I mean I know what I have- but - I know alot of you are a heck of alot more in-tune to these kinds of things than me!

and we probably more members than just me who would benefit from this thread


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Nothing amazing will happen suddenly from this, so I would say just use this time to do a good, all around stock check.
Make sure are rotated and see what you are running low on.
And get more coffee. You always have room for more coffee.
And chocolate.

But, in general, I have been stocking up on veggies. If I see peppers on sale like I did at Aldi's the other day I buy the heck out of them.
I am putting them in my dehydrator.

And I am starting more seeds than usual as well.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

I agree, nothing is going to go suddenly, but it is a good time for an overall check, re-check.
Our garden is being quadrupled in size this year, and we are getting more chickens, and an extra couple steers.
Also, setting up a water catchment system, even though we are just north of a river, and have a very deep well.. As to the well, it is going solar this year.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

I have a 2 lb bag of baby carrots I got on sale- I am trying to figure if I wanna chop them then dehydrate or if I leave them the size they are- 
I think I will chop them....


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2014)

Price of crude oil is up noticeably today, so theres a good chance that gas will go up if they don't come to some sort of accord soon. I seriously doubt that Putin will back down, he's had plenty of time to mull over the situation, and is moving deliberately to take the area. The real concern is would this possibly be the beginning of the re-formation us the USSR.


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## sand flea (Sep 1, 2013)

The things you'd do to be prepared don't change so much, from situation to situation. A few things you might want to consider, are creating a stash of cash money at home - in case ATMs, or card based sales go down. I'm trying to get 2 months worth of expenses saved up here, but I'm not there yet.

It's not too soon to fill up the gas cans for mowers- a little Stabil will help keep it better. And we will be making sure that the gas tanks on the vehicles stay full.

Review the dates on OTC medications; rotate stock; look for new storage places and what might fit there opening up a space for more of _______? Can't have too much toilet paper!


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Corn and wheat prices soaring today. 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...0001424052702304815004579417112576465126.html


> Ukraine is expected to be the world's fifth-biggest exporter of wheat and third-largest shipper of corn this year by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Ukraineâa big supplier of wheat to Egypt, the world's largest importer of the grainâsaid it has exported 24.7 million metric tons of grain between July 1, the start of the current marketing year, and March 3, a 36% increase from the prior year.
> 
> Traders have also speculated that Russian shipments will slow if countries impose trade sanctions against Russia, which is the world's fourth-largest wheat exporter. European Union foreign ministers on Monday unanimously condemned Moscow, suggesting sanctions are unlikely to be imposed immediately but may be used if Russia doesn't change course.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Soooo- Flour and gas- I am gonna bet on those 2 things- and the coffee- yea- can't go wrong with that- I don't drink it much- but DH has a cup every morning- hate to deny that-


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## Wavertree (Dec 1, 2013)

Most definitely stock up on coffee.

They are having a historic drought in the coffee growing countries of the world. Brazil is rationing water to major cities. The coffee crop is blooming now and the weather is not being at all cooperative for a good harvest.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Start buying anything canned that does not grow in your area. Stash it all over your house. Get in the habit by buying what is on sale, squirrel it away.Extras whenever you can, it won't hurt so bad.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

Do you have enough seeds?


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Plan to do as much of your own growing you can. There are lots of factors that make this year look like it could be an expensive one in the produce isle.

Top off everything you can afford to......it will cost less to do it now then it will later.


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## bigjon (Oct 2, 2013)

buy all sales-meat/veggies-t.p.extra seed taters ordered,mulch plastic on order.squash-punkins-etc-ordered.ordered fertilizer.buy extra canning jars.i know i'm forgetting SOMETHING!


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

I'm not smart enough to figure out what form of "S" will be in the next big SHTF. So I've got a personal prep plan and don't worry about individual world events too much. There is so much that is common to prepping for every sort of catastrophic event. Pretty much in every case you need good shelter, clean water, food, toilet paper, etc. 

I've still got a long way to go before I would begin to say I'm fully prepped, but each day I do a little bit to move the plan forward.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Putin will Not back down. Question is what will the rest of the world idiots do . .?????

So just keep on keeping on . . . .build your stash up as you can....


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

I try not to react too much to any specific event. If you are already prepped, then you pretty much have the stuff that you need to survive. This is good time to fill in holes, though. I've found a few and we're working to correct them.

Our household is stocking up on canned goods, especially meats. I didn't do as much canning in the past year and realized that we were low on shelf-stable meat. Ordinarily, I'd buy some meat on sale and can it, but I only do that as the bargains allow. I have canned chicken, turkey and (pre-Fukushima) tuna. I've been dehydrating a lot of sale-priced mushrooms, peppers and onions to keep them from spoiling.

We really don't have a lot of other garden produce from last year. Last summer, we ate fresh foods from the garden so there wasn't much left over to preserve. 

I also want to get more sugar, cooking oil, butter, flour, lentils and pearl barley. Those are household staples for baking and making the weekly pot of soup.

This year I have plans to plant more intensively with an eye to things that produce abundantly...Except for zucchini. I still have shredded zukes in the freezer for making bread. I haven't grown any in 2 years! 

Oh... and gas! We need to fill a few more of our gas cans. This week, we improved our personal dependence on gasoline by downsizing from an SUV to a wagon.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

I'm glad we added onto the kitchen and pantry...it's pretty much full. Wood shop still has room as we didn't do much canning last year (due to kitchen...therefore much of our canned goods were store bought as loss leaders), but this year, with my new shop in use, insulated and wood stove going in, there will be no excuse to not can vigorously (can't use kitchen excuse...).
Both freezers are full. Plenty of TP for a long time.
I doo need to add to our milk stores; go thru 2 to 3 gallons a week; have powdered to stretch occasionally...not a favorite, but works.
Nothing is going to get any cheaper, that's for sure, so pay now, or pay later.
Oh, almost forgot; get your kerosene and propane when you can...the price for propane (i.e. grill tanks) has almost come to earlier prices...I see that jumping again soon.

Matt


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I sought the Lord, and he answered me, and delivered me from all my fears. 
-Psalm 34:4

I like big ol' honking fears like thermonuclear war. They reveal the absolute foolishness in worry. Here we sit wringing our hands over something that is so incredibly out of our control ... like through worry and fear we can somehow grapple with this monster and bring it down to a manageable size.

Fear of a snake when I pick up a board is prudent. It's within my control. Fear of Putin dropping a bomb on me is left to the Lord. 

You already know what needs to be done ... food, water, shelter ... get thee about thy work!


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

My car doesn't use much fuel. It looks just like my garden. Dh says I might get to use the hoophouse by June.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Roadking said:


> I'm glad we added onto the kitchen and pantry...it's pretty much full. Wood shop still has room as we didn't do much canning last year (due to kitchen...therefore much of our canned goods were store bought as loss leaders), but this year, with my new shop in use, insulated and wood stove going in, there will be no excuse to not can vigorously (can't use kitchen excuse...).
> Both freezers are full. Plenty of TP for a long time.
> *I doo need to add to our milk stores; go thru 2 to 3 gallons a week; have powdered to stretch occasionally...not a favorite, but works.*
> Nothing is going to get any cheaper, that's for sure, so pay now, or pay later.
> ...


Have you tried shelf-stable milk? It comes in big, juice box-style containers.We buy it at Dollar Tree Dollar Stores. It tastes much better than powdered. We tend to save the powdered for recipes and the shelf stable for the grandkids to drink when they visit. Our household drinks only soy milk or almond milk due to lactose issues.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Will check it out TMC, thanks.

Matt


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Sigh...

And here I'm debating about putting in a garden and using up my stores as I sure can't move them 2000 miles away. 

Absolutely goes against the grain...:facepalm:


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Potassium iodide. It doesn't cost much to get a couple of bottles of it:

http://emergency.cdc.gov/radiation/ki.asp

Then pray you'll never need it. But.....you never know.....


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

homstdr74 said:


> Potassium iodide. It doesn't cost much to get a couple of bottles of it:
> 
> http://emergency.cdc.gov/radiation/ki.asp
> 
> Then pray you'll never need it. But.....you never know.....


When I was in the military, we went through chemical warfare training and I was shown how, if exposed to nerve gas, I was to inject myself with adrenaline in the thigh and then walk back to the medics. 

I asked, "How does adrenaline protect me from nerve gas?" 

The instructor replied, "It doesn't, but it keeps you going for a short time and means we don't have to carry your body as far."

That's sort of the thing with potassium iodide. It's relatively useless.

It protects ONLY your thyroid gland, and ONLY from one type of radioactive element (radioactive iodine). In a nuclear blast, that element is present only in the smallest of amounts. Other radioactive elements are in much greater quantity and those will kill you with or without taking potassium iodide.

In short, potassium iodide is what the government hands out when they want to give you the illusion that they can protect you from something they caused but yet can't in any real way solve.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I think that we should consider the reality of what nuclear war means.

In a limited exchange in CONUS, people in large urban areas that are targeted are going to die very quick. 

_Survivors should come to terms with the fact that about 30 years has just been chopped off the tail end of their lifespan.

_The radioactive elements which kill people are going to linger in the soil for the next 20,000 years. Even if we had a stable society afterwards, we would not be able to remove all that topsoil and replace it with uncontaminated soil and still feed us.

Drinking water will be in short supply. Many radioactive elements will be airborne or carried in water and will enter your body that way.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Ernie said:


> When I was in the military, we went through chemical warfare training and I was shown how, if exposed to nerve gas, I was to inject myself with adrenaline in the thigh and then walk back to the medics.
> 
> I asked, "How does adrenaline protect me from nerve gas?"
> 
> ...


I'm not going to be around a blast area. The fallout may, or may not be intense due to wind variations but most likely will be slight for us. Thus I do have hope that it might prove valuable, at least to a degree. 

I'm sure that most of us will not survive any sort of conflict where nuclears are used, but since this stuff is so cheap I have it in the chest, just in case it might prove to be useful in the long run.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

homstdr74 said:


> I'm not going to be around a blast area. The fallout may, or may not be intense due to wind variations but most likely will be slight for us. Thus I do have hope that it might prove valuable, at least to a degree.
> 
> I'm sure that most of us will not survive any sort of conflict where nuclears are used, but since this stuff is so cheap I have it in the chest, just in case it might prove to be useful in the long run.


You have alot more faith in the accuracy of these things than I do.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

bowdonkey said:


> You have alot more faith in the accuracy of these things than I do.


Yeah, I know what you mean......any of us could be "collateral damage". But 200 miles is quite a ways off target, and would most likely involve a whole lot of vodka. Hmmm....come to think of it......


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

All you need to know is what happened to the stock price of Russia's oil and gas giant, Gazprom. It took a huge hit in the market. Both the Ukrainians and the Russians are avoiding military confrontation. AFAIK, none of the Ukrainian military forces in the Crimea have surrendered contrary to Russia's disinformation. They have told the Russians they will fight if pressed. 

Russia is faced with a standoff. If it goes hot and Ukrainians die, it's over. That will stiffen Ukrainian resolve in all parts of the country. Russia has written a check without the cash to back it up. 

As long as our military stays out of it, we, the American people, win. As far as prepping, continue to prep to withstand and survive the potential natural disasters in your region.


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## sand flea (Sep 1, 2013)

Don't overlook financial preps...

even if we someday have a hyperinflation - US currency stashed at home is a good cushion, for a week or days - when the banks won't open. Money at home, can't be bailed in, from your account, if there is a rash of bank failures. (The FDIC doesn't have the funds to insure all the money on deposit at all the banks.)

If things start to escalate and get crazy here at home: pay your bills early. That buys you at least a month for things to calm down again. Do NOT depend on being able to do your banking online; cyberattacks could be a pretext for shutting things down. Did you know you can pre-pay some bills? Won't do any good for the power bill, if there's an EMP -- but in the event of a huge price/kwH spike...

Hide money in vehicles and include some in everyone's bug out bags, if you have them. (We're mostly bugging in... so that's not a top tier priority.)


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Numb-nuts Senator Maclame if he had his way would have us send troops over there. For what ??
What pony do we have in that race . .??

maclame and all those other warmongers need badly to be taken out behind the barn and delt with


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Jim-mi said:


> Numb-nuts Senator Maclame if he had his way would have us send troops over there. For what ??
> What pony do we have in that race . .??
> 
> *maclame and all those other warmongers need badly to be taken out behind the barn and delt with*


By whom? Where in all the bureaucratic world are you going to find the necessary adult supervision? You don't think that the "diplomacy" by the 'Kumbaya' people that led up to this mess was some sort of stellar performance, do you? 

Putin will not stand for another Chechnya, which is a part of the problem insofar as the muslim Tatars are part of this uprising in the Ukraine/Crimea. So when Putin speaks of "anti-Semitic forces" that the Russians are guarding against, some of that has to do with the Islamist-crazies.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

So far the Tatars are lying low. They were not involved in the demonstrations which occurred in other parts of Ukraine. The anti-Semiticsm is a relic from western Ukraine where many of the demonstrators live.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

If I was a Ukrainian military officer or Islamist separatist I would make dang sure to blow up every oil and gas pipeline. The Ukrainian has got to know he's a rat in a corner. If it's going to get miserable, it may as well be felt in Russia. And most of all by all of those involved in the theft and illegal gains in the oil and gas industry. The way I see it, it's the love of money causing all this.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

bowdonkey said:


> If I was a Ukrainian military officer or Islamist separatist I would make dang sure to blow up every oil and gas pipeline. The Ukrainian has got to know he's a rat in a corner. If it's going to get miserable, it may as well be felt in Russia. And most of all by all of those involved in the theft and illegal gains in the oil and gas industry. The way I see it, it's the love of money causing all this.


The problem there is that if such violence begins, particularly any violence showing up in Russia itself, the Russian military will show no mercy. It seems obvious enough that the Kremlin has made that point quite clear with their actions so far. 

Ukrainians might be tough, but they are not as schooled in the resistance methods as are Afghanis who have had centuries of experience with that. If I were a Ukrainian dissident and determined to do some dirty deed or other, I'd blame it on the Chechnyans. 

Oh, and the Russians can count on there being no intervention from any nation in the West, the US included.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

I think there wont be any military involvement..however both leaders have backed themselves in a corner with this..if you do this then i will do that language..and i believe an economic war may be on the horizion..and that could be disasterous in many areas of the world..especially for EU and US..so if preparation is to be done I would plan on an economic collaspe of sorts rather than war in a traditional sense


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Aintlifegrand said:


> I think there wont be any military involvement..however both leaders have backed themselves in a corner with this..if you do this then i will do that language..and i believe an economic war may be on the horizion..and that could be disasterous in many areas of the world..especially for EU and US..so if preparation is to be done I would plan on an economic collaspe of sorts rather than war in a traditional sense


I disagree. War is inevitable at this point. Russia started "closing the deal" earlier today with seizing military bases. They even took the top Ukrainian general into military custody after their special forces stormed the Ukrainian command center.

War is inevitable because one of two things is going to happen ...

a) Putin will try to take the rest of the Ukraine (not just Crimea) and we will intervene to stop them. 

b) We won't intervene to stop him and eventually he's going to start rolling up other countries like Lithuania, Poland, or Turkey. He will ultimately reach some point where someone WILL try to stop him and we will likely get pulled into that ... or we will be struck first to keep us from getting pulled in.

It's sort of like seeing a fox at the edge of your farm. While you may think it doesn't impact you today, sooner or later he's going to try to get one of your chickens and you're going to have to deal with it.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

I plan to keep stocking as I have since 1983 and my parents did before me. 

In some of the articles I am reading it reminds me of the first Cold War , which really never has ended based on some of the occurrences across the Bering Strait since the fall of the Berlin Wall and CCCP collapse.

Perhaps the advertised second act of the Cold War with the Mongol areas eventually spurring a return to defined us and them politics will be beneficial to the sluggish economy here :shrug:

I used to laugh at the school nuclear attack drills but in retrospect maybe ducking under those 1950s/1960s era school desks with 10 to 15 coats of lead based paint probably was a safe place to go. :rotfl:


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## sand flea (Sep 1, 2013)

Good thoughts on an awful topic, Ernie.
What happens if the fighting gets imported to the US? I don't buy the Red Dawn scenario - BUT... lately life has been imitating art. And no one can tell me where those 2 Iranian boats drifted off to, either. No time for anything except Obamacare, Lois Lerner & Ukraine in the news lately. Sigh.

I don't see economic crisis vs war as an either/or proposition. More of an "and"... because "all wars are bankers' wars"... and what this current unpleasantness is about, is purely natural resources and the market for them. It's been heating up now, for 4-5 years.

People who see it coming and prepare, will adapt. The world and the various economies will look a lot different if the "pecking order" of power shifts. But overall, the huge inflated illusory bubble of constantly increasing economic growth is about to collapse in on itself - pretty much everywhere. It will be slow - until it isn't. Latest export report from China was a seasonally adjusted -34%.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...apse-leading-2nd-largest-trade-deficit-record

If people don't have the money to buy trinkets and gadgets - they won't order any. So the "hot potato" gets passed to another country and their economy.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

If you compare the situation today with Putin to the situation in the late 1930's with Hitler, you'll get chills down your spine. Study your history.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Ernie said:


> I disagree. War is inevitable at this point. Russia started "closing the deal" earlier today with seizing military bases. They even took the top Ukrainian general into military custody after their special forces stormed the Ukrainian command center.
> 
> War is inevitable because one of two things is going to happen ...
> 
> ...


I can see your point..but I think we are done either way..option A or B puts our fragile economy over the edge...when we do get to the fox..we are going to find he has killed all the chickens already...although I do quite believe it has been all by design anyway...


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

I don't prep because living prepared has always been our way of life. We grow the garden and can and freeze and store away enough food to last a year until the next harvest. We raise seed because we can't buy what we need as organic seeds are mostly unavailable or very expensive. The hay is mowed and dried to last one winter until the animals go out on pasture. Then it is time to start mowing and drying for the next year. Wood is cut to last a year ahead so some wood is always drying for the next winter. It is a way of life same as our fore fathers did. The only difference is ; we have to plan ahead to have money to pay our property taxes every year on the farm. We can get along without electric, gasoline and boughten animal feed or food for us as we buy very little now.


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

Ernie said:


> I sought the Lord, and he answered me, and delivered me from all my fears.
> -Psalm 34:4
> 
> I like big ol' honking fears like thermonuclear war. They reveal the absolute foolishness in worry. Here we sit wringing our hands over something that is so incredibly out of our control ... like through worry and fear we can somehow grapple with this monster and bring it down to a manageable size.
> ...


I look at things basicly as you do. We do what we can to take care of ourselves and have something to share with others. The other things like possibility of nuclear war are out of my realm! I trust God to pull this old world through despite what world leaders are trying to do to all of us. There are three kinds of business; my business, your business and God's business! I take care of my business, don't meddle in other's business unless asked too; and leave God's business to Him as He has the over all view of the world. Frankly; my business is all I have time for!


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Well said..both Ernies quote and Imroses reply..I was plucked out of a very different life ten years ago and placed in this lifestyle of homesteading and preparing..i dont know exactly why but i live my life with the belief that i am where i am suppose to be at all times..so i dont worry about world events so much..i just do what i am led to do and have faith that i will be where HE wants me to be.


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## bigjon (Oct 2, 2013)

to imrose,i visited your lovely land about 12yrs ago.wish i'd stayed!


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Anyone who thinks Putin will back down is living in cloud coo coo land. The man is a tyrant and I believe his goal is to re-establish the old Soviet Union. I don't think anyone is prepared to challenge him at this point, but eventually if he continues NATO will be required to step up and we're part of NATO. 

A bigger issue for the USA is the fact our southern border is wide open. Who knows how many enemies are already here ready to attack us from within?? We can bet the .gov has no idea -- oh, wait -- they do know because they're in the process of enrolling them in various .gov freebie programs. .gov just doesn't know which ones are terrorists or potential terrorists. And before I get flammed, I'm not referring to Mexicans. There are many nationalities crossing the border illegally.

Right now inflation appears to be the crisis affecting me personally. My prep dollars are reduced because the cost of daily living keeps increasing while my income does not.


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## gweny (Feb 10, 2014)

I live to close to DC to survive nuclear war. I think I work in the biggest target on this planet! Yet I still keep a 'get home bag' in the car. If I can survive I will. If I can't than I won't be around to worry about that. I don't so much worry about it because I can't control it. I'm more concerned with an economic or social collapse.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Back in the early 70's (Cold War days) we lived in Wyoming surrounded by missile sites. We and our friends often discussed whether we were living in the safest or the most dangerous spot on earth.


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## Junkman (Dec 17, 2005)

Just found some sterno at the local Dollar Tree. Bought several. Good to use to heat, warm or cook food. Look for a chafing dish at yard sales this year. Great when no electric. Foil is handy to have around. Cant have too much.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Junkman said:


> Just found some sterno at the local Dollar Tree. Bought several. Good to use to heat, warm or cook food. Look for a chafing dish at yard sales this year. Great when no electric. Foil is handy to have around. Cant have too much.


If a bad situation lasts very long, you'd have to have a lot of sterno for cooking if that's what you're intending to do. As far as a sort of survival tool for cooking, when I was in the USMC we would use open C-Rat cans, punch holes in the bottom side of the can, fill it about half full of dirt, pour in some gasoline, enough to dampen the dirt, and voila! Instant stove. 

Now if it's real bad, there won't be any gas, either. Better get yourself a wood-burning stove or make a firepit with some sort of grill on it----rebar works good for that.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

You might consider getting a Kelly Kettle. They burn anything from twigs, pinecones, dried grass, to cow chips or bark. They're discreet since they don't give off a lot of smoke, and they'll boil water in 3-4 minutes, and you can cook on top of them (with small cookware).


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## Twobottom (Sep 29, 2013)

Aintlifegrand said:


> I can see your point..but I think we are done either way..option A or B puts our fragile economy over the edge...when we do get to the fox..we are going to find he has killed all the chickens already...although I do quite believe it has been all by design anyway...


I think of another analogy....our house is on fire and we see the fox in someone else's yard. If we run out and go for the fox to save the other farmer's chickens, our house burns to the ground. Or we stay home and fight the blaze to save our collapsing home.

Of course if we choose to save our home from collapse the other farmers might say that we are weak. So what would you do? Run out like a fool to save your neighbor's chickens...or take care of your own house?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Twobottom said:


> I think of another analogy....our house is on fire and we see the fox in someone else's yard. If we run out and go for the fox to save the other farmer's chickens, our house burns to the ground. Or we stay home and fight the blaze to save our collapsing home.
> 
> Of course if we choose to save our home from collapse the other farmers might say that we are weak. So what would you do? Run out like a fool to save your neighbor's chickens...or take care of your own house?


In 2nd Samuel, when King David came to power after Saul, there was a dreadful famine in the land. David sought the Lord to find out why and was told that the reason for the famine was that Saul (the previous king) had broken an oath to protect the Gibeonites. 

During the conquest of the Promised Land, Joshua swore an oath before God to not slaughter the Gibeonites. He was tricked into it, but being an honorable man he made sure the oath was kept. Only he made the Gibeonites a small people ... a nation of woodcutters and water carriers.

But Saul, a cruel and cowardly man, felt the Gibeonites might rebel against him, or perhaps he felt they were of no use in the land, (the bible doesn't record Saul's thoughts on the matter) and so he put them all to the sword. An attempted genocide. Many of the Gibeonites fled out of the land held by the Hebrews.

So David, having it explained to him that the famine was a result of the Hebrews breaking the oath and treaty with the Gibeonites, called forth the leaders of the surviving Gibeonites and said that he knew they had been wronged and what could be done to make up for it.

The Gibeonites said it was not the Hebrews who had wronged them, but Saul, and they asked that 7 descendants of Saul be brought to them to be killed. David complied and the famine ended.

Right or wrong, we made a treaty to protect the Ukraine. We asked them to lay down THEIR arms in exchange for our protection. Now the time has come that they need either their arms to protect themselves, or they have to call upon us. 

How will God punish America for breaking a treaty such as this? Or will He? This is something I do not know.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Ernie said:


> I think that we should consider the reality of what nuclear war means.
> 
> In a limited exchange in CONUS, people in large urban areas that are targeted are going to die very quick.
> 
> ...


So at 71 this means that I will probably be dead in 50 years or less. Well poof.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Ernie said:


> I think that we should consider the reality of what nuclear war means.
> 
> In a limited exchange in CONUS, people in large urban areas that are targeted are going to die very quick.
> 
> ...


with all that toxic waste, just think how many superheroes will be created 

:smack


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## Sanza (Sep 8, 2008)

Ernie said:


> Right or wrong, we made a treaty to protect the Ukraine. We asked them to lay down THEIR arms in exchange for our protection. Now the time has come that they need either their arms to protect themselves, or they have to call upon us.
> 
> How will God punish America for breaking a treaty such as this? Or will He? This is something I do not know.


 
That is the problem because people don't know about this agreement, or conveniently think that all countries involved will just forget about it also. Wrong! Britian and the US are morally obligated to help because of this treaty signed 20 years ago. It is interesting to watch this "game of chess" being played out by the leaders.


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