# .022 calibers



## Philbee (Jul 5, 2004)

It seems to me that the .022 caliber is very useful and somewhat underestimated. Today it seems that everyone wants to talk about big caliber pistols and rifles and the bigger the better. I recently shot a 223 caliber and some .022 cal. CCI Stingers that were very pleasing to shoot. I new a man, who is dead now, who fed his family during the "Great Depression" on deer meat that was killed with a .022 cal rifle and I am sure that the .022 cartridges during that time were not nearly as good as the cartridges that are manufactured today. I saw a show on TV not long ago about when Japan invaded Alaska. The US had some backwoodsmen from Alaska armed with a 30-06 to snipe at the invaders and a .022 Cal. pistol for survival. These backwoodsmen were very interesting individuals. I would like to read about your experiences with the .022 short, long and long rifle, .022 Magnum and 223 calibers. 

Philbee


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## quietstar (Dec 11, 2002)

Hunters learn that shot placement matters most, what ever caliber you shoot. The .22 rimfire has been used to turn many a boy into a rifleman and good hunter. I suspect we would be amazed to learn the actual number of deer that were brought to the table using a .22 long rifle. The .223 is legal to hunt deer sized game in a number of states, but respect for the animal requires that a good, well constructed bullet be used. Except in a big crosswind, it should be effective on the lightweight Pronghorn. If you take up handloading, the .223 can be loaded down to a mild round that would be handy for dealing with a **** after your chickens. Because it is a current military round, brass is cheap and readily available. A "hot" load using a 60 grain .224 bullet should drop any well shot deer. I believe this accurate round deserves a quality bolt action rifle with 22 to 24 inch barrel. Good luck and enjoy yourself....Glen


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

If I could only have one gun it would, with out a doubt, be a .22 rifle. I have killed more game with the .22 than with any other shotgun or rifle. I almost shot a deer last night, but didn't want to drag it across a rain swollen creek. If I would have shot it,it would have dropped like a stone. I'm deadly with a .22 out to at least 100 yrds, which is plenty far enough for me (I use open sights). I feel completely confident that , no matter the size of the game, I could kill it with a .22 (if I took the shot). 
If I was being charged by an angry grizzly, I would wish I had a .458 wm or a .50 machine gun, but I would be glad I had a .22 in my hand.
The best thing about a .22 is...
put 100 rounds of .22 ammo in your pockets. Now try that with the cartridges for any other fire arm.
The .22 ,of course , is not the ideal choice for big game but, ever try to eat a quail or squirel you shot with a 300 mag?
I've said it before and say it again, if I had to jump up right now, grab a gun and head out the door I would grab my .22 bolt action, jam a couple handfuls of ammo into my pockets and feel comfortable.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

I love the 22, was my 1st gun, still have it and has had many thousands of rds thru it and still shoots great.

Very good start for a Homestead tool. Followed closely by the 12 ga shotgun.

My carry bag, not really a BOB bag, just the bag I keep packed for travel (NOT on planes), but clothes, socks, underwear, first aid, etc, has my Ruger Single Six in it.

This shoots 22 (any size 22) and also has a chamber for 22 mag.
Able to carry 20 rds 22 mag/50 rds 22 lr, both chambers in a pistol soft case.

Ammo's cheap, light and quite, but if you want to get nuts, many have 30-50 rd magazines for them.(Ruger 10/22).

If you really want to get nuts: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...duct&cmCat=search_redir&QueryTerm=Gatling Gun
Very good start for a Homestead tool. Followed closely by the 12 ga shotgun.

Great investment, what ever kind it is.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

The only problem with .22 is it's a RIMFIRE and you can not reload. I love my .22 rifle and revolver, but I really love my 9mm carbine and pistol. But the .357 is quite fun too.

Cathy


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## BASIC (Jul 20, 2002)

Philbee,good post.I happen to work in a sporting goods store and I see so many people that are way over guned and way under skilled.They want a magnum something,they don't care what.Its the person behind the gun,not the gun.I can't say I've spoken to many people that have used .22 for deer but I've spoken to a fair amount(that I trust)who have used .223 with outstanding results.Unfortunetly most people hunt(that I come in contact with)for the rack not for food,they do eat venison but it's secondary,an after thought,I have so much respect for people that hunt whose primary purpose is to feed their family.I live in NJ which is shotgun only,people are hunting with slugs that cost between $14-$22 a box of 5,thats not right.Hopefully more people will add to this.


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## Philbee (Jul 5, 2004)

Thank you all for your views on the .022 caliber. As far as shot placement is concerned and very large calibers, I saw a man on TV last night kill a bull elk with one shot from a .308 at about 170 yards I believe. Some folk say that a 30-06 is too light for elk. I don't immagine that this gentleman on TV would shoot an elk with a .022 but it certainly says a lot for shot placement. Last year in this state a 12 year old girl shot and killed a Black Bear off of the poorch of her grandfathers home. I don't know what caliber she was using but I feel rather secure in my mind that it was not a 300 Magnum.

Best wishes, -------- Philbee


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## tallpaul (Sep 5, 2004)

Its .22 not .022

as far as "overkill" ... more big game critters likeley fell to the "lowly" thirty-thirty than any other. SHOT PLACEMENT is the name of the game as long as penetration is adequate. 

As far as slug cost there is no one saying you need to spend the money on those high dollar shells- its a choice some make. A foster type slug is still 2.99 or less if ya watch for five. As far as "$14-$22" "not being right" that is your opinion. There is nothing wrong with premium ammo costing a premium price. No one said you have to buy it or a gun that is set up for them. If ya want the newest and the "baddest" ya will pay the price 

A .22 is part of any serious outdoors or gun guy. They are way to good for alot of different things and cheap to shoot to not be included in even the most basic of gun collections. I love my .22 LR's


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

It's a good caliber in it's place. It isn't for everything, just like any other.

Also, it is 0.223" diameter, not 0.022". That would be thin pencil lead sized. It uses a bullet 0.001" smaller than a .223, which uses a 0.224" bullet. 

Ever wonder about the gun companies? Here's a list of cartridges that use the exact same bullet diameter:
218 Bee
219 Wasp
220 Swift
221 Fireball
222 Rem
223 Rem
224 Wby
225 Win

At least Weatherby got it right with the 224.


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## quietstar (Dec 11, 2002)

Ed...You left out my favorite, the 22-250. I know of a rancher in your part of the country that has often taken an Elk with one although it wouldn't be my choice...Glen


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## tallpaul (Sep 5, 2004)

also the 22 hornet, the .222 mag and the .22 mag


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

I like the idea that ammo, although it is not re-loadable, is cheap and doesn't attract attention.
Most people consider a .22 a "toy", but in the right ahnds can be deadly for almost anthing you want to dispatch.

Where else can you buy a "brick" of 500 rds, if you watch the sales, for under $10 bucks.

Couple of thousand rounds for the price of two boxes of most other ammo, and no body bats an eye.

Quite, if you shot "shorts" or even smaller "CB caps", even "shot shells" for the pidgeons in the barn, (don't leave a hole in the steel roof).


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Ed Norman said:


> It's a good caliber in it's place. It isn't for everything, just like any other.
> 
> Also, it is 0.223" diameter, not 0.022". That would be thin pencil lead sized. It uses a bullet 0.001" smaller than a .223, which uses a 0.224" bullet.
> 
> ...


Glad you included the .225 Winchester, not many people even heard of it.


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

I've always heard the stories of people being fed venison with a .22 also. Certainly a lot of deer have been killed with 22's. Another certainty, alot of deer were wounded an escaped due to "not enough gun". I'm not a magnum fan, but you need to use the proper tool for the job, and know how to use it right. They are alot of fun to shoot, but at it's best just a small game cartridge.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

We just bought a half beef from a local rancher. As I enjoyed some rump roast, I chomped into a 22 mag bullet, well mushroomed, fired from a Marlin Microgroove barrel. It was healed all the way up to the slug. So now I know a 22 mag isn't effective for cattle with rear raking shots, or Texas neck shots, if you prefer.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

When I go out to kill a hog the only thing that I use is a .22. If I go out and kill a cow for buthering I use a .22. If I go out to hunt a deer I use a larger caliber becaust the law says that I must use the larger caliber to take it. 

The only thing that I can't take because of the diamater and power is probily a Grizely Bear. Since there are none in the state of Arkansas I feel aremd enough with a .22. More people are killed each year with a .22 because thay are plentiful and not fround on. They are deadly weapons if you use the right.


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## tn_junk (Nov 28, 2006)

Aguila makes a .22 round that is sub-sonic and loaded with a 60 grain bullet. Very quiet and deadly out to about 50 yards (at least on ground hogs). They reccommend a 9.5 twist barrel but it shoots just fine out of my 16 twist Marlin. I expect, based on the penetration I have seen on both animals and fence posts, that load would kill any medium sized animal at fairly close range (with proper placement of course).

galump


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

Yep! They can be deadly, so can a pellet rifle.

When I was a kid I don't know how many coyotes I shot with a 22 that weren't in a trap at ranges from 25 to 100 yards. There were a few of them I killed.. after taking multiple hits to the lungs. However, more were lost, even after several solid hits. As soon as I could, I stepped up to a 22-250.

I do realize there is a lot of difference in an Arkansas deer and a Colorado deer. Just from my own ethical standpoint, I would use a gun more suited for the job.

I've never had a lot of faith killing cattle with a 22. Yearling size it will work consistently if you put it right behind their ear. But in the forehead.... sometimes, sometimes not.

I'm not knocking the 22's, they are a great little firearm and I've got several.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

if i had only 2 guns they would be 12ga and a 22 if i chose a 3rd it would be a 30-06

with 12 ga you have slugs i just use the winchester rifled 1 oz they are still very reasonably priced and have brought many a deer for me 

for 22 ammo i am using cci stingers they are a premuim 22 round but at 3 dollars i can still afford them 

as for 30-06 i had the for sight to by every box from the local hardware store 14 years ago when they were still 6 dollars a box 
but one thing the brady bill did manage to do was raise the price of guns and ammo 
that an product liability law suits i admit we are seeing great advancements in bullet technology but there is no reason a box of 20 30-06 soft point 150 grain cartriages are 18 dollars a box when they where 6 not that many years ago

my advice for 22's is that if you ever find yourself shooting advancing ***** use lr or stinger lr because i was using 22 CB and put 1 in each of thier heads and all it did was nock them out for a bit one between the eyes in the forhead the other just above the left eye and in the forhead and one more round in each one in the chest the other in the jaw i was using a single action revolver with a 5 1/2 inch barrel.

this was between 3 and 5 feet away


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## bgak47 (Sep 4, 2003)

All of the .22s have their uses & I own several of them. Guns are just tools, & no tools are good for every job. You can drive a nail with a rock, but a hammer works better. On the other hand, you wouldn't use a sledgehammer to drive a finishing nail, or a carpenter's hammer to drive a railroad spike. A .22 won't kill an elk at 300yds but a .300H&H mag will kill a rabbit at 25yds...of course you won't be able to eat either of them.


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## doing it in NM (Feb 5, 2007)

A .22 is one of the most enjoyable guns there is (my thoughts), when I was a kid I had a marlin glenfield single shot bolt action, I would get cbcaps (shorter than shorts), go across the street to the park and get squirrel, quails, and rabbits. I lost that gun 25 years ago. But have a .22 now and run thru at least 2500 rnds a year just playing. If I could only have 1 gun a .22 would be it.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Speaking about .22's, my first gun was a .22. (Maybe said that before)
Anyway:
I bought it from a hardware store that I delivered newspapers to.

At their request I gave them their paper for free for about 22 weeks @ .$60 a week to total of $13.50, to pay for it. (Price of a new savage Model 13, Single shot bolt action at the time.

When the time came to pick it up, they just laughed and said for me to have my father come pick it up, as I was too young. (about 13 at the time).
They were thinking that my father would get mad at me, and wouldn't let me have it, so they would have "Slicked me" into 22 weeks of free papers.

Well, I rode my bike down to my fathers work, and I gotta tell you that I have never seen him so mad in my life. (first time, but not the last, as I got older)
He rode me back down to the store in his/our car and used language I had never heard before, and when the smoke cleared, I had my new rifle, and a case, several boxes of ammo and a new understanding not to "pizz off the old man".

Seems the hardware store guy and my father were friends for years, right up till the time he (hardware store guy) tried "slicking me. That friendship ended that day, didn't even speak for long time.

My father told me not to give him any more papers, so I didn't. 
Hardware store guy got mad and called the "Area Manager". 
Turns out that I WAS the Area Manager, so I far a I know he didn't get a paper until I gave up the job several years later.

Morel to the story? 
Justice can be swift and brutal in a small town.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

I've had several steers slaughtered at a local slaughtered house over the past two years and never asked how they dropped the animals to their knees. Well the other day I delivered one off and finally asked!!!!! One well placed .22lr to the skull, and down goes a 1600 pound steer with no questions asked....the fellow said if you don't place the bullet in the right spot the animal will nearly laugh. Love the .22 very versatile.


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

I've killed about a gazillion grouse, quail, pheasant, squirrels, rabbits, foxes, coyotes, skunks, wild dogs, groundhogs, '*****, hogs, and other assorted varmints with .22 single shots and lever actions, but as mentioned above they can't be reloaded.

This last year I carried a lever actioned Marlin .25-20 WCF just about everyday I was afield from the first of September, to the last day of February, with the exception of bear and deer seasons. (I've had it for years and years, but I just never used it much.) I'm thinking I like it better than the .22's, and I'll carry it during deer season this year coming as it's a tack driver, and I can reload the cartridges down to .22 velocities and energies.


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## cowgirlone (May 9, 2002)

I wouldn't be without my .22s. I keep two by the back door for varmints. Mainly rattle snakes and coyotes.
I got a new .22 pistol last year for Christmas and Santa(?) gave my daughter a new .22 rifle too.
We have Mother/Daughter days plinking targets.
I think we might be country folk.


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2007)

IMO - A .22 has its place in the world. Great gun for teaching a youngster or harvesting small game like rabbits. I can see one used for the smaller whitetails and blacktail deer but ONLY within very close proximity where shot placement is assured.

A controlled shot at a slaughtering house and a shot in the woods are 2 different things.

.22 Mags are too expensive.

Larger deer, elk, etc deserve a caliber that is MORE than just enough to get by. There is a reason that most states have a minimum requirement. It is important to me to have a clean fast kill. It is humane.

I am buying a .338 for caribou and moose. Not that I cannot shoot straight. I hunted coyotes for years with a 22-250 and handloads. It is not what you are hunting, it is what is hunting you!


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## pheasantplucker (Feb 20, 2007)

Don't even think about trying to down a deer with a .22!!! First it's not legal, anymore, anywhere. For good reason, because #2 it's a cartridge for small game like squirrels and rabbits. .22 s are so cheap, the only person who might ever consider trying to "reload" them would be Jack Benny. (You younguns won't get that one). Almost every shooter I know began with a .22 rifle. The .22 does have an interesting history. I have read "The Complete Twenty - Two by Sam Fadala several times. Lots of great rifles and handguns to choose from, with every action from single shot, bolt, pump, lever, revolver and semi-auto. I don't know any of my friends (who all now have bigger high power rifles, handguns or shotguns) who ignore their .22s. I shoot blackpowder and shotguns, but the .22 is the caliber I shoot many, many times more often than the nearest competitor.


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## tallpaul (Sep 5, 2004)

pheasantplucker said:


> Don't even think about trying to down a deer with a .22!!! First it's not legal, anymore, anywhere.


You sir are wrong...

A .22 mag and centerfire .22's are still .22's and quite legal in several states for deer. I think its manine that a .22 mag rimfire is still legal? 222's,223's and thier bigger cousins are also used every year... while not my first choice they work. 

The legality of things is not gonna apply in true survival mode either. Poachers still use the .22 lr even with GREAT success in the US every year. 

Personally I have many other better choices for deer and will use them first...


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

vicker said:


> If I could only have one gun it would, with out a doubt, be a .22 rifle. I have killed more game with the .22 than with any other shotgun or rifle. I almost shot a deer last night, but didn't want to drag it across a rain swollen creek. If I would have shot it,it would have dropped like a stone. I'm deadly with a .22 out to at least 100 yrds, which is plenty far enough for me (I use open sights). I feel completely confident that , no matter the size of the game, I could kill it with a .22 (if I took the shot).
> If I was being charged by an angry grizzly, I would wish I had a .458 wm or a .50 machine gun, but I would be glad I had a .22 in my hand.
> The best thing about a .22 is...
> put 100 rounds of .22 ammo in your pockets. Now try that with the cartridges for any other fire arm.
> ...



It's still deer season in WV????


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

ZealYouthGuy said:


> It's still deer season in WV????


Well, if you want to get technical about it, NO. 
But they eat me out of house and home, so I don't mind harvesting one when I have the oportunity. 
I would like to clarify my earlier statement. I would never try to kill a deer with a .22 from 100 yards. Only 30 or so yards or less. It would have to be a good standing still shot or I wouldn't do it. 
I would like to add that every year for the last four years I have killed a deer mising body parts. Three with three legs, and one with no lower jaw. All, I am sure, shot at by fellows with high powered rifles and scopes. Too bad more people don't choose their shots a little more carefully. When I am gunning for deer, I use a 30-30 single shot. Works for me. I would love to have a nice bolt action 30. 06 or 270, but alas, the 30-30 will have to do for the time being. In a pinch, the .22 will work fine also. If I could kill it with an arrow, I can kill it with a .22. The thing is, if I don't have a dang good assurance of a drop in your tracks shot, I won't take it. I hate hate hate wounding an animal.


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## Rocky Fields (Jan 24, 2007)

Hey.

One shot, one kill. If not, go larger.

RF


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## pheasantplucker (Feb 20, 2007)

tallpaul said:


> You sir are wrong...
> 
> A .22 mag and centerfire .22's are still .22's and quite legal in several states for deer. I think its manine that a .22 mag rimfire is still legal? 222's,223's and thier bigger cousins are also used every year... while not my first choice they work.
> 
> ...



First of all, the original poster is referring to them as .022s so he is obviously a newbie at anything to do with firearms. You are correct when you say I'm incorrect regarding some .22s as I wasn't thinking along the lines of centerfire cartridges...I was referring to rimfires, but I am amazed at the casual references to shooting deer with a .22. To imply that that is something that might be considered IMO is irresponsible. I love hunting but have enough respect for the game to be sure to never use an undersized caliber or gauge. Go back through the thread and count the number of references about shooting deer with a .22. It's not right. :hobbyhors


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

pheasantplucker said:


> First of all, the original poster is referring to them as .022s so he is obviously a newbie at anything to do with firearms. You are correct when you say I'm incorrect regarding some .22s as I wasn't thinking along the lines of centerfire cartridges...I was referring to rimfires, but I am amazed at the casual references to shooting deer with a .22. To imply that that is something that might be considered IMO is irresponsible. I love hunting but have enough respect for the game to be sure to never use an undersized caliber or gauge. Go back through the thread and count the number of references about shooting deer with a .22. It's not right. :hobbyhors


I agree 100%, the proper tool for the proper job.
IMO Anyone suggesting that a .22 is proper for the job of killing a deer sized animal is just plain.... ( no, I won't say it).
You can row across the atlantic in a row boat, but I wouldn't do it.


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## pheasantplucker (Feb 20, 2007)

Thanx Hunter63! :hobbyhors


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## tallpaul (Sep 5, 2004)

pheasantplucker said:


> First of all, the original poster is referring to them as .022s so he is obviously a newbie at anything to do with firearms. You are correct when you say I'm incorrect regarding some .22s as I wasn't thinking along the lines of centerfire cartridges...I was referring to rimfires, but I am amazed at the casual references to shooting deer with a .22. To imply that that is something that might be considered IMO is irresponsible. I love hunting but have enough respect for the game to be sure to never use an undersized caliber or gauge. Go back through the thread and count the number of references about shooting deer with a .22. It's not right. :hobbyhors


I was and am not restricting the discussion to ethics nor legalities both of which most here will agree that a rimfire .22 will have issues with. Your inability however to accept the fact that deer have been ,are and will continue to be harvested by the .22 rimfire if used with the right placement within range is your issue- NOT one of the rounds capability. Most of the references here I believe refer to "survival" and not sport hunting. There is a big difference.There is no irresponsibility in using a .22 in survival. As I said I have bigger/better and will use them where legal. When you are hungry and of limited means "right" can be a whole nuther creature. One could also say the irresponsibility is not knowing what your equipment is actually capable of...


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## tallpaul (Sep 5, 2004)

hunter63 said:


> You can row across the atlantic in a row boat, but I wouldn't do it.



Its good when a man knows HIS personal limitations... and incapabilities


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

I pretty sure that no one here has recommended a .22 as a good choice for hunting large game. It is a good choice for an all round rifle. It is cheap, quiet and readily availble ( if not easily reloadable), and many large game have been taken with it. A large caliber rifle is not a good choice for all round use, and is surely not a good choice for taking small game (bread and butter in a survival cituation).


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

What I entended to depart from my earlier post is that a .22 could be used for killing just about anything but not recomended. Any large game I use a large 30 caliber but on small game I use a .22 for that. I would never go deer hunting with a .22 but I would not also go squirell hunting with a 30-06. Use the proper tool for hunting anything. But if push comes to shove and a .22 is all that I have then I don't feel unarmed in shothing what ever game that I find.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

I whole heartedly agree. The afore mentioned deer was an old doe I was going to cull from no more than 20 yards. She was eating and presenting a perfect head shot. Not "hunting" by any stretch of the imagination. More of a harvest  
At any rate, I love the .22. If I had only one gun, that would be it for the reasons already stated.


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## Philbee (Jul 5, 2004)

Thank you all for correcting my mistake of my writing .022 rather than the proper .22 caliber for I should know better than that. I am a bit surprised that the .22 caliber is still used in some places for hunting deer. In the State of Washington it is illegal to use rimfire cartridges for hunting deer and the minimum caliber is .24 or 6mm. I reckon that in the days of the "Depression" people were more desperate here than we are today. 

Philbee


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

tallpaul said:


> Its good when a man knows HIS personal limitations... and incapabilities


You are correct, and don't feel bad about it either.
It has been said "Discretion is the better part of valor", or (and I think some one here used this for a signature), "The second mouse gets the cheese".
Bon voyage!

P.S. I do like my .22's and agree, it would be the cal. of choice if in a "only one gun senerio".


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## catalyst (Feb 22, 2007)

I read .022 cal and thought there was a new micro bullet out on the market.

lol

A BB is .177 isnt it?
.022 would be an interesting pea shooter.

LOL


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