# Do you understand your Rescue from a Killer Pen really isn't?



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

https://www.facebook.com/notes/libe...re-you-really-saving-a-life/1767799979902551/

Recently, I started a thread about the hundreds of Draft Horse colts being bought and raised for slaughter in Japan. Seemed to me that when some folks read horse meat, they are unable to comprehend the difference between the normal slaughter of old, lame or crazy from this new market where only the best colts are bought, leaving the culls.

Currently, there is a "Rescue" craze. People flock to a Dog Rescue to "save" the three legged hound, because they love to rescue. Recently, many dogs from Korea were "rescued" from being eaten, brought here to spread their diseases.

Seems every day, another horse rescue pops up. My facebook is full of Kill Pen ads, giving a few days before they ship. Well intentioned folks "rescue" the horse at far over the normal price just to be able to rescue the horse.

Here's a bit of it:

"
Intro: Hello, my name is Liberty Valance, and I own a kill pen horse. And it is because of my kill pen horse that I decided to pursue this area of the equine industry further. I, myself, was ready to jump headlong into this cesspool and use my extensive equine experience to start pulling horse regularly to make a difference in their world. I started doing kill pen horse transports here and there, and I have been to the feed lots in person. But I have a college degree in business and law, and I have been heavily involved in the horse industry for 36 years. The more I delved into this particular activity, the more it didn’t make sense. I dug until it did. I don’t feel bad for buying Valen because he was my teacher, as horses often are the best, and I wouldn’t know now what I didn’t know then without him. This is what I learned. I didn’t write this to tell you stop caring. In my travels, I have learned that so many people just do no have the first idea of what’s really going on in this business. Horse traders have always had a reputation for dishonesty, but for some strange reason people see “kill pen” and think these savvy businessmen are suddenly running a charity. It’s not a message to promote or discourage slaughter. It’s just.....the truth.
Kill pen horses. It starts with a picture and a cry for help. You see a beautiful horse in an advertisement and a plea for salvation. “Can anyone save him?!” He has a bail amount of $850+ and a deadline hanging over his head with a ship date. You want to cry for him. You find a way to scrape together the cost of bail, quarantine, and shipping, and extra board, and you bring your new boy home. You feel good because you saved a life from being loaded onto a truck headed for a Mexican slaughter house. .........Or did you? Let’s start at the beginning.
Where do kill pen horses come from? Kill pen horses come from local livestock auctions, Craigslist ads, free-bee ads, and even websites like Dreamhorse if a horse is being under-valued enough. There can be many reasons a horse ends up there: bankruptcy, sudden hardship on the farm, death in the family, etc. The horse is taken to the auction usually because it’s highly time consuming to sell a horse privately. Nobody actually “puts” a horse in the kill pen, and they’re not sold at auction specifically to kill pen brokers. They’re just....sold....to the highest bidder, whoever that is. The kill pen brokers scour the auctions and internet looking for horses to fill a weekly quota they receive from processing plants in Mexico and Canada. Horses are sold at action by the pound. In general, the average horse sells for about $400-$500. All of this is very normal...Very “business-as-usual”...and has not changed much in the past several decades (with the exception of a few Dept of Agriculture laws putting restrictions on the age and health of animals to be shipped for processing.) However, very recently, this corner of the horse industry has seen a sudden surge in profits with the advent of a new trend called “Feed Lot Frenzy”.
In the past, a public person could approach a feed lot and offer to buy their stock privately, if they wanted to, before it was shipped to Canada or Mexico. It was not uncommon to purchase a horse from a kill pen for a few dollars over meat price. The broker got his money back plus a little extra for his trouble, and he would always take that money back to the auction and replace the purchased horse easily enough. However, in recent years, the meat brokers have begun to capitalize on the idea of selling horses to the public for a much larger profit than they would ever make from the slaughterhouses. Higher profits mean less money out of pocket. Since 2015, the price of “kill pen horses” has tripled and quadrupled even though the price per pound of horse meat has remained fairly constant. In 2016, the industry saw a surge in kill pen profits, while the number of horses actually being exported for processing was unchanged. In 2017, the prices were even higher, averaging from $850 on the low end to as high as $3000 on some horses.


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## StarSchoolFarm (Nov 29, 2013)

Cavallo is delicious. I don’t see the problem…


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

StarSchoolFarm said:


> Cavallo is delicious. I don’t see the problem…


X 10. Domesticated elk. 

We don't see auction prices anywhere near that locally. Usually ten to 40 bucks a head, unless it is broke, has papers, or something. People with a broke horse might talk someone into riding it into the sale ring, picking up feet or something. But the hills are full of 40 dollar horses. Lot's of people buy them, to rescue them. They get a $40 dollar horse, and then three or four more, and pretty soon they run out of funds to buy $25 dollar round bales. 

Takes $50 bucks to get a coggins to sell a $40 horse at auction, so craig's list is full of free ones. Enterprising people with the proper facilities load up. I'm sure if they get too full they send them to meat markets, but why do that if you can market them back locally to people that haven't yet had a crash course in the economics of "horses are cute but if I cram 14 of them onto a five acre paddock, I will have to get hay". "He just needs a little ground work." "Little touchy about that right back leg". 

Lot's of hay. Some of these people don't even own the land. Ever see what 14 horses do to a five acre lot? Landlords get mad, ultimatums come, horses get coggins tests, and end up back at market. Same old horse trader buys them back for less than he sold them for. Never ending cycle. It's a shame more people don't realize how good it actually tastes, and how tender even an older animal is.

Amish country is different. They get them and figure out which ones can be trained enough to sell at a profit, and which ones need a captive bolt in Mexico. Prices run a little higher in those areas. A lot of the $40 sale barn horses here end up going to PA. There cousin Yoeder might come across with some funds if something is there to work with, or something he can get a colt off of, and there are enough showing up that he doesn't pick to make a tractor trailer load for the meat market. Most never leave a five county area, and there are people going to PA to rescue them from the dreaded kill pens to keep an ample supply locally, so the supply chain never dries up.

The risky thing for somebody looking for cheap, good meat, is that there is no telling what they have been shot up with in the hopes that cousin Yoeder doesn't notice the infirmity they have. Horse drugs are scary. If you were that frugal individual looking to fill freezer on the cheap, you run a big risk buying locally. You might become "that guy". Ugly, a shame it has to be that way, the poor things would have a much better end than being played musical mud lot with until they finally end up on a tractor trailer to mexico, or hobbling around some rescuers paddock in sore need of the large yet relatively merciful predators that they evolved around.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

barnbilder said:


> Lot's of people buy them, to rescue them. They get a $40 dollar horse, and then three or four more, and pretty soon they run out of funds to buy $25 dollar round bales.


Face Book is full of posts from "rescues" that have run out of feed, hay, and funds. They seem to be begging often for donations from readers, playing hard on emotions. One gets tired of it.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

nehimama said:


> Face Book is full of posts from "rescues" that have run out of feed, hay, and funds. They seem to be begging often for donations from readers, playing hard on emotions. One gets tired of it.


They exist only because people are stupid enough to send them money. This reminds me of a story I vaguely remember about a famine in India. The starving people believing the rats to be their dead ancestors fed rats before they would feed themselves. Predictably, the result was more hungry rats and people still starving.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Round bales are $85 here in central Texas. I am not rescuing anything.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

People are gullible and your evil if you try to educate them...…..


You must be horseaphobic, racist and uncaring, xenoequinic…….


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## StarSchoolFarm (Nov 29, 2013)

I pay $20 for 4x5 rounds here. I buy close to $20,000 every year. My steers make enough to cover the hay costs.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Most people completely comprehend that Percheron horses are livestock, and they are being raised for meat. You are the one with the issue about it. People raise what sells. There is no difference between raising horse, beef cattle, goats, pigs, sheep, or chickens. 

Many rescues are out of control, I agree with you there.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

In the evolutionary niche of the equine, they were never meant to become old, blind, lame, etc. They filled protein requirements for too many species, us included, for that. Horse people are always big on biology of the horse, but some seem to miss that fact. Some horse owners will provide mercy to a suffering animal. Some stockpile them and prolong their suffering. The latter group seem to be the ones with a rescue mentality, and the ones that seem to scream the loudest about horse slaughter.

Had myself some equine for dinner just last night. High grade dining. Personally, I will be hard pressed not to find a horse broker when the freezer gets lean. Bring me a man killer. It's all right. He just hasn't met the right man yet.


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## flewism (Apr 2, 2007)

I haven't been to a horse auction in years, but back in the day meat buyers top price was $300.

A rescue opened up by us a few years ago and the woman that runs it is an artist a playing the sympathy game, and does quite well for herself.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

I hit a draft horse sale a couple times/year and have been surprised at the lack of Belgian weanlings going through, until I heard about the Japanese meat market thing. Personally, have no first hand evidence as to who exactly is buying along the chain or the eventual outcome. I agree that the little buggers prolly put on weight in their first year faster than a beef calf. Oh well. As far as I know, the PMU farms are still producing draft foals like clockwork(?)...it's just that the market has evolved in another direction. 

Yes, a LOT of the so-called rescue outfits are a joke/scam. Let the buyer beware.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Alder said:


> As far as I know, the PMU farms are still producing draft foals like clockwork(?)...


As far I know there are no more PMU farms. The hormone can be produced in a Labratory now, with better results and less cost.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

There are still PMU farms in Canada, but currently only around 24. There were many more prior to laboratory production. 

http://www.naeric.org/ranchers.asp?strNav=3


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The Italians, being both smart enough to realize that modern technology had replaced the draft horse, and knowing good food when they eat it, saved the Italian Heavy Draft from almost certain extinction by switching breeding strategies to emphasize meat production rather than working capabilities. The PMU farms probably selected towards fecundity, setting the stage for the Belgian to survive, the problem facing them is the plague of silly hangups located on the continent where most of them exist.


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## ridgerunner1965 (Apr 13, 2013)

I have nothing agin horse as food. one thing I notice around here is horses can get fat on pasture that wud starve a cow.

I don't think they can finish out as fast as beef but gawd they can live on nothing but briars and weeds. and get fat.

if yu put horses in a good pasture it will soon be nothing but bare earth and weeds. there hooves pack down the earth until it wont grow anything.


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## kotori (Nov 15, 2014)

Some people also don't get that some horses need to be slaughtered, or will sell on a horse that should be slaughtered so they can act like it isn't their fault when it gets slaughtered. Someone ran a horse known to rear through a sale barn, bought by a kid as a project...kid nearly killed, horse sent back in the pen, maybe bought by another unsuspecting family, maybe goes on to meat. Would have saved a lot of blood, sweat and tears to just put it down the first time.

and that isn't even touching on the pet vs livestock argument... as a horse lover, would I eat a horse? You bet. Would I kill a perfectly healthy horse just for meat? Nope, more valuable as a working animal. would I kill a problem horse if I couldn't fix it? Yes. couldn't live with myself if someone got killed by an animal that I knowingly sold as a problem..


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I’ll tell you what, this whole “rescue” crap is truly ridiculous. Last night there was a weakling/yearling/2 yr old sale at a reputable sale barn in my area. I looked at some of the foals and had a fixed amount I would go to on each. I sent a buddy of mine to the sale to keep me from buying them all. I was watching the FB live page of the auction house, and on every baby that was going up for auction the “rescues” were throwing high bids out to keep from kill buyers getting the babies. They ran the prices up on so many right outta the gate that no one would bid for the others after that first onslaught, so then a LOT of them went to the kill buyers. the FB people were having vapors because now that no one would bid, the babies were going to kill buyers, and how AWFUL that was, blah blah blah. If they had just let regular people bid to begin with, that whole lot of 80 some weanlings would have been purchased by people just wanting to get a young horse.

The 3 I did buy were hugely overpriced. In the real world I could have picked them up for several hundred each. But in the stupid “rescue” world they pushed probably 15 babies to a kill pen.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

By the time they get done putting their spin on it those babies will make them a lot of money in donations. They've made the puppy market overpriced too. People charge $200.00 or $300.00 (or more) for a mutt puppy because they know a rescue will pay at least that and then adopt out poor little rescued puppy for at least $500.00. It's crazy!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Pretty much the same thing happened when the Canadian PMU farms were cranking out weanlings. Oh, the poor PMU babies will go for meat if we don't "rescue" them by paying twice what they're worth. They ended up with people in the US that didn't know how to handle babies, and were totally clueless on how to train them. At 2-3 they became dangerous and were dumped at auctions and many did go for slaughter.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

The PMU thing hit when we were breeding and selling Paints & QHs. It hurt the horse market as a whole, bad. Thank goodness we didn't depend on our horse business for our livelihood.


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

kotori said:


> Some people also don't get that some horses need to be slaughtered, or will sell on a horse that should be slaughtered so they can act like it isn't their fault when it gets slaughtered. Someone ran a horse known to rear through a sale barn, bought by a kid as a project...kid nearly killed, horse sent back in the pen, maybe bought by another unsuspecting family, maybe goes on to meat. Would have saved a lot of blood, sweat and tears to just put it down the first time.
> 
> and that isn't even touching on the pet vs livestock argument... as a horse lover, would I eat a horse? You bet. Would I kill a perfectly healthy horse just for meat? Nope, more valuable as a working animal. would I kill a problem horse if I couldn't fix it? Yes. couldn't live with myself if someone got killed by an animal that I knowingly sold as a problem..


I realize this post is a few months old but just lately I have had time to read things here that I didn't have time to read before. Anyway I agree with kotori; because when our girls were 13 and 15 they saved their money and bought a pregnant horse together. The mare gave birth to a fine colt which the older girl claimed. The mare wasn't ridden until after the colt was born.

We were told this horse was fine for the girls to ride. We were not told about her unpredictability and bad habit of running flat out and throwing her rider or kicking and biting. Come to find out every horse person in our area was familiar with this horse and knew her long sad history but us. In the end I returned the horse to the seller and traded for a different horse. I later heard the owner put the first horse down which should have been done years ago. She had been abused multiple times which most likely caused her problems but she never should have been sold the owner knowing her history . It was fortunate our girls or my husband didn't get hurt.

We love animals but they are not people and as far as eating horse meat in some countries it is common to eat horses, dogs and cats. We don't tell others what to eat even though neither of us would eat those three. I don't eat any meat any way as I can't digest meat but have no problem if others eat meat. 


2017 we sold part of the farm and were faced with what to do with our 32 year old work horse? No one wanted him though he was healthy. Alternatives were give him to a zoo where he would become dinner for the the lion and tiger. Or put him down and bury him or sell him to a slaughter house. Neither of us could face killing him and then like a miracle someone offered him a retirement home with some other old horses. So there he went.

We visited him there and he seemed happy and had a good life. Winter came and then another Spring and summer and winter again. We visited him in February of this year. His condition had deteriorated, he was full of arthritis and barely moving. He was outside in the elements with only partial shelter. We always had him in the barn in bad weather and he had a choice the remainder of the time to be in or out. We felt sick like we had betrayed him after his many years with us. This summer he was mercifully put down by his owners. We were given the option of being there one last time to see him and chose not to go. We have good memories of him at our farm.

He gained about a good year by going to another home and then a year of misery. We still question whether we should have put him down when we no longer could keep him. Sometimes life is fun and other times it is tough and hard to know what to do.


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## Annie in S.E. Ohio (Jun 17, 2002)

Horses are a member of the family in my world, and have been for over 50 years, just as dogs and cats are. And I would never consider eating horse meat any sooner than eating dog or cat meat. Who would want to consume American raised horse meat ? It's not safe to eat if even the animal was wormed only once with an Ivermectin wormer preparation, let alone the many topical fly spray products and other assorted topical drugs used regularly on horses. Most all equine products, especially feed additives, clearly state on the label "not for use in horses intended for food". Not safe to eat, so why would anyone want to ?

Horses are companion animals, not livestock, at least in this country. And yes, I have a rescue horse, an Arabian mare I liberated from Moore's Kill Pen in Lebanon, PA. Does that make me a horrible person because I wanted to spare one horse a tortuous thousand mile trip to the hell holes that are the Mexican slaughterhouses ? And I would do it again when it comes time to find a companion for my two horse "herd".


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I have no problems with anyone eating a horse, but big problems with the mechanism of transport and slaughter and the terror and pain involved. I had my most beloved old gelding put down and used for lion meat at a zoo. He went with no fear and with loved ones at his head. Who cares what happens to the body after the spirit departs?
I’m all for people rescuing horses but as for my own...I’ll put them down painlessly and with no fear or trauma before I will let him go to a rescue.

and you can eat a meat animal after deworming. Pretty sure cattle, pigs, sheep etc are all dewormed.
It’s all in the timing and product. Worming a horse doesn’t make it inedible.


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## kotori (Nov 15, 2014)

Annie in S.E. Ohio said:


> *Horses are a member of the family in my world*, and have been for over 50 years, just as dogs and cats are. And I would never consider eating horse meat any sooner than eating dog or cat meat.
> 
> *Horses are companion animals, not livestock, at least in this country.* And yes, I have a rescue horse, an Arabian mare I liberated from Moore's Kill Pen in Lebanon, PA. Does that make me a horrible person because I wanted to spare one horse a tortuous thousand mile trip to the hell holes that are the Mexican slaughterhouses ? And I would do it again when it comes time to find a companion for my two horse "herd".


I don't deny some share your views, but does that give you the right to claim to speak for an entire country? Rescuing a horse is good for the individual horse, bad overall. What if I told you for every horse you bought from a kill pen sent two more in it's place? I won't deny you saved that particular horse, but did you save a horse, or condemn two more? I can't say I wouldn't do the same in your shoes, and if you need an animal, you need an animal.

On a less emotionally charged note, the reason everything is marked 'not for use on horses meant for consumption' is more because there aren't studies done for horses in that capacity more than it actually being inherently unsafe. Personally I'd still give the horse a chance to flush anything hinky from it's system for 30ish days, but odds are the product has a cattle counterpart that has more accurate data then 'just don't'.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I don’t think Lisa was speaking for the whole country, but simply for herself. And I agree with her whole heartedly.


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## kotori (Nov 15, 2014)

I didn't mean for my post to come off as accusatory as it probably does. I get that its deeply personal and I feel it should be left to the individuals to decide on horse meat or not. the first bolded statement says 'in my world' which i understand and support wholeheartedly. the second bolded part says in this country which I cannot get behind. There are those with work horses who see them as tools, but they aren't any less American then those that cherish horses as pets.

I'm sorry if it came off as a personal attack.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Back in the 80's there was a horse slaughter house in Fort Worth,Texas. I sold hundreds of horses to them. When people asked where they were going, I told them the horse was going on a vacation to Paris France. The finest hotels in Paris serve horsemeat.

Every horse culture in the world except ours, eats horse meat. Americans are very spoiled, and they assume that everyone else is as well.

Having said that, I would put a horse down myself before I would ship one to Mexico.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

kotori said:


> I didn't mean for my post to come off as accusatory as it probably does. I get that its deeply personal and I feel it should be left to the individuals to decide on horse meat or not. the first bolded statement says 'in my world' which i understand and support wholeheartedly. the second bolded part says in this country which I cannot get behind. There are those with work horses who see them as tools, but they aren't any less American then those that cherish horses as pets.
> 
> I'm sorry if it came off as a personal attack.


You quoted Annie, not me, but either way, I didn’t take it as offensive. I’d say we see the issue similarly.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

Americans tend to forget where food comes from. Steak comes in a plastic wrapper from the grocery store. The general public has no idea and PETA plays on their ignorance to spread their propaganda. Just about every “cute cuddly pet” we have in America was originally on someone’s dinner plate in the beginning. Now Americans want to make pets out of current livestock and “rescue” them. I love my animals and give them the best care possible. But I also have no problem putting meat in the freezer. Once the skin is off it’s all just meat. You would never know if you were not told.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The really neat thing about horses is that they are the only livestock whose meat gets better with age. Most animals get tougher, horses included, as they get more mature, but horses break over d get lazy, tender, and still retain a good bit of lean red meat for slaughter. Ten year old cow will be mostly bone and guts, some sinew, some fat with small muscles. The horses keep the musculature, but the muscles get tender when they lay around and pretend to be dead between feedings. 

I'm sure an old decrepit horse would be tough, but about the time they started getting a little arthritis and started to suffer a poorer quality of life, our wise ancestors enjoyed some really good out-of-this-word tender steak. It's really quite amazing how tender and flavorful a ten or 15 year old equine can be. Our ancestors didn't build the world we enjoy by nursing along a bunch of crippled old horses and using up al of their resources to keep them to the end of their days. 

There are places right now where you see cows replaced by horses, and the hay market driven up beyond the point of profitable return for cow feeding, due to all of these pet horses. People working a job and spending their money on hay, baled with great fossil fuel expenditure, to keep a bunch of crippled, unsound, useless horses alive so they can destroy the soil and wetlands that they are crowded onto. It's not sustainable, and it's not good stewardship of the land, and it's not doing the horses any favors. It's the thing of fantasy, this idea that we should treat a horse any different than a cow or a chicken. People ride cows, chickens can make really good pets, people have pet rats that they bond with and appreciate the company of. That doesn't mean that we should save all the rats, or quit eating chicken.

If you have a horse and want to keep it, and brush it and pet it every day, that's great. If you want to medicate it and buy hay for it for the next 30 years go for it. It might not get the same quality of life if you add six buddies for it on a half acre just on the grounds that they are some sort of allies. Young horse love it when old horses get eaten, means more food for them. It's worked for eons. Your horse is not going to care if you let it's kin go to a slaughter house. It will think no less of you. It won't even know. It will suffer a lower quality of life if you rescue more than you have pasture for.

I ride around and see horses that would be happier in a slaughter pen, if there were only slaughter pens within humane driving distances. The one great benefit if horse slaughter was more common, horses would actually be worth a positive dollar amount, and it might keep some people from obtaining them, when they could not afford to keep them. If a cow is worth $400 bucks for meat, a horse should be in that ballpark. There are people that have horses that a $400 price tag would knock out of getting. They have trouble buying a few moldy $20 round bales for them.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

barnbilder said:


> ......
> I'm sure an old decrepit horse would be tough, but about the time they started getting a little arthritis and started to suffer a poorer quality of life, our wise ancestors enjoyed some really good out-of-this-word tender steak. It's really quite amazing how tender and flavorful a ten or 15 year old equine can be. Our ancestors didn't build the world we enjoy by nursing along a bunch of crippled old horses and using up al of their resources to keep them to the end of their days......


Seems to me it's rather amazing that you are unaware that 10 - 15 are the prime years for a good working horse for most jobs. Your topnotch jumpers and dressage horses are considered immature until about 10 yrs old for example.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

GrannyCarol said:


> Seems to me it's rather amazing that you are unaware that 10 - 15 are the prime years for a good working horse for most jobs. Your topnotch jumpers and dressage horses are considered immature until about 10 yrs old for example.


Jumping and dressage are hardly legitimate historical usages for a horse. Riding mounts and plow horses would most likely be used up and injured by that time. At which point they would still be highly edible. The point was, that a cow that is ten is likely tough and only suitable for burger or stew meat. A 15 year old horse that is in good body condition, will yield tender steaks that can be cut with the side of a fork.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Dressage is certainly based on a “legitimate historical” usage of a horse.
It’s origins go back to Xenophon in the 400’s.
https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-08-10/ancient-military-origins-olympic-dressage


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Barnbuilder, you seriously underestimate the longevity of a decently kept horse. I just lost my 40 year old mare, she was stomping and snorting and amazing right to the end. I have riding horses in their upper 20’s that would beg to differ with your age/use limitations. They do long trail rides, kid lessons, and enjoying country rides. I don’t have a 10
or 12 year old cutters or Reiners that are obsolete either. They all go well into their teens showing, maybe in a different discipline by then, but none-the-less still working. 

I rode Dressage on my TB mare until she was 21 and sustained a career ending eye injury. Not one slow or missed step with her right to her retirement. 

All that to say a horses longevity doesn’t stop being viable at 10-12 years of age. I have found that proper grazing and nutrition keeps them healthy and active into their upper 20’s and for one, to 40.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

A lot more horses are used for jumping and dressage than for plowing fields. We aren't debating historical uses, we are talking about horses today. Most horses today are used as pleasure mounts and continue to be useful well up into their teens. 

My Mother in Law was raised in a homestead in Montana... she used to tell me about her father keeping his horses well up into age, including one that wasn't fully sound that he would pretend was useful because he loved it. 

Historically horses were used for a lot of things that require a lot of training and were valued for a long life to use said training. Your arguments are just silly.

A 15 yr old horse in good body condition is more useful alive than as dinner, it would be wasteful to eat it about the time it was well trained. Of course, I guess trolling the horse forum gives you something to do. 



barnbilder said:


> Jumping and dressage are hardly legitimate historical usages for a horse. Riding mounts and plow horses would most likely be used up and injured by that time. At which point they would still be highly edible. The point was, that a cow that is ten is likely tough and only suitable for burger or stew meat. A 15 year old horse that is in good body condition, will yield tender steaks that can be cut with the side of a fork.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Point missed, horses weren't that well kept in the days of plowing and mounted cavalry, and it was pointless to keep them after an injury rendered them useless or when more useful replacements were coming along. When that time came, they were still quite tasty, as they are now, up until their body condition starts dropping. Unlike most animals that get tough with age. Probably a quality our fore bearers knew and appreciated. Up until recently, it made horses much more valuable. But the dog food and glue myth seems to persist, as far as being the only thing an old horse is good for. Maybe the parts that aren't steak that you can cut with a fork.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Annie in S.E. Ohio said:


> And yes, I have a rescue horse, an Arabian mare I liberated from Moore's Kill Pen in Lebanon, PA. Does that make me a horrible person because I wanted to spare one horse a tortuous thousand mile trip to the hell holes that are the Mexican slaughterhouses ?


My whole point in starting this discussion was that "Killer Pens" often are not. I don't know Mr. Moore nor am I familiar with his Kill Pen business. But I do know a couple dozen truckers in the horse for slaughter business. I've had many candid conversations with them. Mexico is a long way from Michigan. Canada has so many restrictions on US horses, due to drug residue issues, few go there anymore. But they are businessmen. They have discovered a way to make money through the emotionally charged "rescue" business. There are crooks all along the way. When a trucker has room for 5 horses, but there are 10 at the sale, he may buy all 10 and wait until after the sale for a "rescuer" to buy them out of the kill pen. They mark up the price and don't lift a finger. For entertainment, a trucker may bid against a "rescuer" and let them spend all the money they brought on the first few and then get the rest cheap due to no one bidding against him. If the "rescuer" stops bidding and he unexpectedly gets the top bid, often the sale owner will let him run the horse through, later. Everyone loves a rescue story to go with their new horse. That's why the three legged dog, the cat with frost bitten ears are easier to get adopted. "I saved this horse from a painful journey to a Mexican slaughter facility" is a self installed badge of honor.


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