# Stubborn 4-H market goat - need help



## hayzor (Dec 8, 2003)

My son has a market goat he is raising for 4-H. He is trying to walk it and not having much success. It must be literally dragged. Our 4-H group is not experienced w/ goats - mostly pigs. 
Any suggestions to halter break and get this goat walking. We should have some time - Fair is in mid April. Any help is appreciated.

Thank you


----------



## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

does he like eat treats? that is the easiest way for a beginner to teach something like this. take a favorite snack along till he realizes that he is supposed to walk beside you and that it makes things much more pleasant. do lots of turns, stopping, starting etc..... until it becomes second nature for him to stay near you. stubborn is rarely the reason for trouble when training hooved animals.its all about conditioning them to an appropriate reaction.

if for some reason you are apposed to treats, then start by a pull and release. the key is the goat has to release. eliminate for a while the idea of getting him to walk beside you. start with teaching him that when there is tension on the line the lead becomes slack after he takes a step forward. sit down with some slight but uncomfortable tension on the lead. anchor your hands to something, your torso or leg or ground. when he takes a step forward DON'T keep pulling (the reason to anchor your hands). he needs to get accustomed to the idea that the only way to relieve the tension is for him to step forward. it may take a while at first especially if so far the training hasnt' been successful. he probably associates it now with being really an uncomfortable situation that he really has no choice about. you must teach him he does have a choice. 

the biggest mistake people make when teaching anything to lead is to keep pulling once the animal starts walking or even start pulling harder. that just punishes the desired behaviour.


----------



## Ark (Oct 5, 2004)

Just as DQ says - treats, and dont drag the goat around. A little pressure, and release it when he moves forward. 
Last year there was a show that a friend wanted my kids to show some does in - he brought us 3 WILD goats 3 days before the show. OMG, they were terrified of us. We went out to the pen 5 times a day and worked with them for 15 minutes at a time - my kids thought I was NUTS, and that it would never work. But, 3 days later they were no worse behaved than any other goat in that show. 
I would have LIKED to see them MUCh better, but we just didnt have the time. You DO have the time - take some raisins or something out there and go for it! 3 times a day for 5 or 10 minutes if probably better than once a day for an hour.


----------



## Starsmom (Nov 7, 2004)

My son has trained many goats for the 4H show ring. Some can be very stubborn to move. He will use treats if necessary. One thing (the best thing) he found to get them to move is to pull slight on the lead and if they don't move, tug the hair above the tail. This gets them moving every time. Just walk along with them and when the stop, gentle tug and if they don't move, tug the hair, they start moving. Pretty soon they figure out that the tug on the lead means to move and if they don't they get the tail hair pulled. Works pretty good for him. Sometimes, with a real stubborn one it will take two of us for a bit, one to pull and one to tug. Pushing and shoving and dragging NEVER works and just creates resistance. Also, using treats works well. I would stand ahead with the treats and he would hold the lead and pull as I show the treats and they would have to come to me. I would get further and further away and pretty soon, they learned to move. The treat thing we only use on the really, really stubborn ones (usually older goats). For the younger ones, pulling the tail hair works. Also, it goes in stages. Don't expect to take them for a long walk the first time. A few steps without resistance is good and give them lots of hugs and petting for their good job. Work in short increments through out the day, don't try to get the training done in one long session each day. Frequent short training sessions are better. As they start to work well with the lead, remove it and use the collar, hold it up high in the jawline (don't choke them) and they will move magically, remember to keep their head up when doing this. I do remember that I had one doe that when we started doing this, she would start screaming and coughing and fall to the ground like she was being beaten. Of course she was a total faker and it did take a bit to get her going, but soon she was a champ. Don't be discouraged, it is easier than it sounds. Also, if you are working with kids, I always like to remind people, NEVER pick up or drop a kid over the fence. Open the gate and walk them through. I have found the ones picked up over the fence turn out to be the jumpers.


----------



## hayzor (Dec 8, 2003)

Thanks for the help. That gives us a lot of hope!!
One suggested raisins - we're getting started with those. Any other suggestions for treats. 
Thanks


----------



## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Frosted Mini Wheats...the cheap generic kind in the bag. My goats LOVE them


----------



## AnnaS (Nov 29, 2003)

Much good advice here! 
I use herd instinct to train those stubborn goats. I take them to a strange, secluded area and practice leading by the collar. If they balk, I drop the collar and run off without them. They quickly learn that they need to keep up or they will be left behind. 

Goats are very motivated by treats, as others mentioned. My goats will try almost anything, but candy is a favorite. Right now, we're going through Xmas ribbon candy and bits of candy cane.


----------



## Ark (Oct 5, 2004)

Just be sure you go *sparingly *with the treats. Safest thing to do would be to give him his regular feed if he is greedy enough to want it under stressful circumstances. Then you won't have to worry about overdoing it on the treats and causing stomach problems.
Another thing that helps is to lead him around, _*in and among the other goats*_. It gets harder the farther away you get from his buddies! But, once he's moving nicely you can start branching out. My kids can get their show wether to run beside them willingly, around the house out of sight of all other goats, but it takes time to get to that point.


----------



## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

AnnaS said:


> Much good advice here!
> I use herd instinct to train those stubborn goats. I take them to a strange, secluded area and practice leading by the collar. If they balk, I drop the collar and run off without them. They quickly learn that they need to keep up or they will be left behind.


This is how we do it. We usually also take a couple of other goats with us that already walk well. This also helps to get a skittish goat to come to you or at least stand so you can catch them (this takes time with the really squirrelly ones).


----------



## Starsmom (Nov 7, 2004)

My goats just love crackers and fresh vegetables, especially squash.


----------



## Buster2021 (Mar 24, 2021)

We have a 4H goat that every time we walk him with a collar he acts like he is choking and will not walk. The collar is placed under his jaw. What are some suggestions to get him to walk without making the choking sound because everytime he does that he stops walking.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Halter train him first. 

Use treats as motivation. 

Don’t pull so hard on the collar


----------



## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

I've found the younger you start training any critter, the easier and quicker it is for them to earn.


----------

