# Some people in the city are just clueless!



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Last night in Brooklyn, NY, a group of apartment buildings lost power. I saw it on the news before I went to sleep. The power went out around 8:30 pm and they predicted it would be back on around 1 am. Not too bad, IMO. Get the kids settled into bed (they should be going to bed around that time anyway), get the battery operated lanterns set up so you can see a bit, get out the water you stored to have something to drink and maybe play cards with the adults in the family or else read a book by booklight/lantern/flashlight.

Yet I just read an article about it this morning and a woman is quoted as saying:



> "No lights in my house, there's no water. What am I going to do right now? You know what I'm saying, what am I going to do? No lights, no water, this is bull****," said Sharon Folks, a resident.


http://7online.com/news/power-outage-at-spring-creek-towers/431160/

Seriously?? What is she going to do? She's NOT going to die. For heaven's sake, do you not take care of yourself? Apparently not! 

My daughter moved into NYC for grad school. She has a lovely 3 bedroom apartment with two other women but what did I make sure she had when she moved in? Flashlights, batteries, lantern, battery operated candles, 5 one gallon bottles to fill up with water (she stores them under her bed and drinks out of them regularly, just rotating the water as she uses it), emergency nightlights (turn on when the power goes out) and some nice warm blankets. Really, it's not THAT hard to do this!


----------



## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Nah, she's goinna die.



Seriously, the _personality_ that has that reaction DOES "die" after a few such events. The person eventually goes off the panic or poor-me mode and gets on with life. Hopefully once that change is made and other reporters come around she pushes them down the stairs.


----------



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Build a fort in the living room and read by the flashlight until you fall asleep. Works for adults too.


----------



## fixitguy (Nov 2, 2010)

That's just a small indication of what will happen when the SHTF.

A few years ago we lost power in my little cow town. It was a Saturday evening on a nice day in July. At first all the kids went outside and played, by nightfall all the adults were outside talking to other neighbors.
We have kerosene lanterns on our patio for decorations. Pretty soon people noticed we had lights and a radio. Before we knew it, we had 10-15 of our closest neighbors in our back yard. We were the most popular people on the whole street. At around 11p.m. the power came back on, all my friends left. On a normal day, half them people wont give me the time of day...

Moral of the story: Keep your preps to yourself


----------



## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Well, no reporter ever asks a person "how well were you prepared?" And if some actually indicates they are doing just fine- where's the story in that? The whiner always gets top billing.


----------



## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

where I want to said:


> Well, no reporter ever asks a person "how well were you prepared?" And if some actually indicates they are doing just fine- where's the story in that? The whiner always gets top billing.


Because nobody would watch the news if the reporter said, "Power was out but everyone is fine and there's nothing to talk about." Drama sells, so they always have to find the most ignorant/panicky/freaked out person possible.


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

MDKatie said:


> Because nobody would watch the news if the reporter said, "Power was out but everyone is fine and there's nothing to talk about." Drama sells, so they always have to find the most ignorant/panicky/freaked out person possible.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> this here. logic and accountability are not acceptable anymore.


----------



## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Some people EVERYWHERE are clueless...and it's the "news" media's goal to find the most clueless among them. I live about as far from the city as you can get, and we have clueless people out here, too.


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Not everyone went off the deep end or there would have been much more to report than one woman without water and lights. It sounds like most people managed, especially knowing what time the power would be back on. A toilet will flush once with no power. You can walk around the corner to the nearest party store and get a six pack of water (or your favorite refreshment). In fact, I&#8217;m thinking for most it was a change and a feeling of &#8220;we can survive like pioneers&#8221;.


----------



## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

A couple years ago power was out here for 2 weeks. Everyone took it in stride, no panic attacks that I heard of. This area has to be ready for it since it happens so often. I didn't realize that it doesn't happen in other places. LOL @ me for being so ignorant of life in the city.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

At least she would have been able to go to a store and buy ice or water and get hot food from a local restaurant. 

Many years ago we were in a town that got hit by a tornado. No local stores, no local restaurants, you had to drive 20 miles one way to find a business that was open. We still had water though, the city system was gravity fed.


----------



## Jokarva (Jan 17, 2010)

Yes, not just people in the city.

When this house was still a rental our tenants called us in the middle of a snow storm when the power went out....no water, they 'had to brush their teeth with orange juice'. We were 450 miles away so I wasn't sure what they expected us (or the property manager 15 miles away) to do. I suggested they melt some snow for water and then STORE SOME SUPPLIES - YOU LIVE ON A MOUNTAIN!!! 

Of all our tenants in all the years we've had rentals, those two nearly did me in.


----------



## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Danaus29 said:


> At least she would have been able to go to a store and buy ice or water and get hot food from a local restaurant.
> 
> Many years ago we were in a town that got hit by a tornado. No local stores, no local restaurants, you had to drive 20 miles one way to find a business that was open. We still had water though, the city system was gravity fed.


Here when our electric is out everything closes :hammer: No one has those crank handle cash registers nor could you find many that even knows how to count back change for a dollar if you spent 99 cents :drum:


----------



## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Maura said:


> A toilet will flush once with no power.


If you're on city water it'll flush a lot more than that.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

mnn2501 said:


> If you're on city water it'll flush a lot more than that.


She said they don't have water so I'm wondering if in buildings like this, they need pumps to get the water to higher levels?


----------



## tiffnzacsmom (Jan 26, 2006)

No power stores close, not just because of the registers being down but for safety issues.


----------



## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

I remember the blizzard of '78 in New England. I was going to a small college and we got a little more than three feet of snow. Power was out in the dorms for more than a week, the student cafeteria did not open for almost that long. People were freaking out.

Me??? I had a good time and came out of it like a fat cat. I had all of my winter camping gear with me including my snow shoes and telemarking skis. I would just ski the two miles to town with my back pack where this one grocery was open if you could get there (the owners lived above the grocery). Hauled back everything that I could and sold it at a substantial mark-up (mostly rich kids at the school, I was scholarship). 

At night I just fired up my stove to take the chill off and crawled into my -40 sleeping bag. 

Within a day or two people were placing orders for me to retrieve food. Within three days it was a bidding war for my services.

These kids were pampered idiots and never even thought that the route that I took might have been tamped down after six or seven trips per day. It was like a super highway that anyone could have easily walked. They never tried or even asked.

Their loss and my gain. I will never forget the fact that someone joyfully paid me $20 for a small jar of peanut butter.

TRellis


----------



## bellcow (May 12, 2014)

Just dial 911. That's all you have to do.

Bellcow


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Maura said:


> Not everyone went off the deep end or there would have been much more to report than one woman without water and lights. It sounds like most people managed, especially knowing what time the power would be back on. A toilet will flush once with no power. You can walk around the corner to the nearest party store and get a six pack of water (or your favorite refreshment). In fact, Iâm thinking for most it was a change and a feeling of âwe can survive like pioneersâ.


When I saw the news last night, MANY were outside complaining. It certainly wasn't the whole place but still plenty of people.


----------



## KentuckyDreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

A few years back we had not heard of prepping. We had two power outages that come to mind;

one was a mess getting anywhere due to traffic lights being out. Police were stationed at the Walmart waving a line of cars away...no electric, no store. Camped out in front of our fireplace and ate peanut butter crackers. 

Another time was during nice weather. The neighbors were out with grills and outdoor activities. Best time ever in our neighborhood. Next day, the televisions were back on and things returned to "norm".


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Here when our electric is out everything closes :hammer: No one has those crank handle cash registers nor could you find many that even knows how to count back change for a dollar if you spent 99 cents :drum:


EAST NEW YORK (WABC) -- 
There is a power outage at the Spring Creek Towers housing development in East New York, Brooklyn.

The outage began at around 8:30 p.m. Each of the 46 buildings range from 11 to 20 stories. More than 5,000 people live in the apartments.

According to the article it was just the housing development. Stores would still have been open. It's not like it was 10 square blocks or half the city.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> EAST NEW YORK (WABC) --
> There is a power outage at the Spring Creek Towers housing development in East New York, Brooklyn.
> 
> The outage began at around 8:30 p.m. Each of the 46 buildings range from 11 to 20 stories. More than 5,000 people live in the apartments.
> ...


Yep - it was JUST the housing. They apparently create their own power and I think I read that this happened last month too. It was funny because they were interviewing a woman in her car. She decided to sit in her car until the power came back on. Is that more comfortable than sitting in your own home????


----------



## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

KentuckyDreamer said:


> A few years back we had not heard of prepping.


A few years back it was called common sense, but as I pointed out in a previous thread, common sense has died!!!

TRellis


----------



## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere.


----------



## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Heck, my power is out right now, and we're doing fine. Might bit breezy here tonight.


----------



## fixitguy (Nov 2, 2010)

Danaus29 said:


> The outage began at around 8:30 p.m. Each of the 46 buildings range from 11 to 20 stories. More than 5,000 people live in the apartments.


I live in a town with a population of 2700. I would be climbing the walls to get out of that place.


----------



## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Annsni said:


> Yep - it was JUST the housing. They apparently create their own power and I think I read that this happened last month too. It was funny because they were interviewing a woman in her car. She decided to sit in her car until the power came back on. Is that more comfortable than sitting in your own home????


Maybe she lived on floor 19 :sing:


----------



## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Maybe the journalist was using that woman to make an example of her to show how foolish some people can be and to demonstrate how other people should NOT be.

Where I live there are often power failures due to weather or because of transformers blowing up so most people are prepared for lengthy power outages. 

When the power goes off in my city after dark people throughout the neighborhoods go outside with flashlights to socialize and to check on the well being of their neighbors. They patrol the streets in pairs or groups in front of their homes and stores and in back alleys as self appointed security guards just to make sure there's no trouble in their neighborhoods. The police and fire departments have enough other real emergencies to deal with without having to watch for potential vandals and looters. It's good to see so many citizens cooperating and taking it all in stride.


----------



## Guest (Dec 12, 2014)

Fennick said:


> Maybe the journalist was using that woman to make an example of her to show how foolish some people can be and to demonstrate how other people should NOT be.
> 
> Where I live there are often power failures due to weather or because of transformers blowing up so most people are prepared for lengthy power outages.
> 
> When the power goes off in my city after dark people throughout the neighborhoods go outside with flashlights to socialize and to check on the well being of their neighbors. They patrol the streets in pairs or groups in front of their homes and stores and in back alleys as self appointed security guards just to make sure there's no trouble in their neighborhoods. The police and fire departments have enough other real emergencies to deal with without having to watch for potential vandals and looters. It's good to see so many citizens cooperating and taking it all in stride.



We had a fire in our neighborhood... Much the same. Men out in the street, hosing down their properties and drinking beer.


----------



## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

I've often seen this - people are much friendlier when there is a crisis or project.


----------



## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

We have a power outage, and people are calling to see if it's just their house, or the whole street. Then, we just wait for it to come back on. We have a generator, so we keep the fridge and freezer going, and we have wood heat, so we don't have a problem. I can cook on the wood stove if I have to. 

The only thing we have a problem w/is the water pump. For some reason, it doesn't want to work off the generator that well. So, if we need to use the water, we make sure nothing else is running, and then use the water as little as possible.


----------



## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

I can't believe how helpless some people are, I wonder if they expect people to jump on their chests so they can keep breathing also.


----------



## starlady (Sep 9, 2009)

Water is out in my townhome complex right now, and possibly the whole street. I've got 5 gallon bottles full in my pantry, plus a bin full of ice cubes in the freezer. I hope it's back before tomorrow AM as I have to go to graduation and would like a real shower first, but if not I'll heat some water on the stove and use my camp shower. The one thing I'm kicking myself about is that I have two empty bottles next to the full ones -- why didn't I already fill those??!? *grr*

edit: water is restored! I immediately filled the empty containers and a few more besides (including a cat litter container - great minds think alike, *Rainy*) so now I have almost 10 gallons stored.


----------



## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

i keep clean cat litter containers full of water in my bathroom to use to flush the toliet in case we have the water freeze up or the power goes out......


----------



## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Beside which dumb is certainly not the sole province of city people. During a bad windstorm a few years back, the power was out two weeks. During that time I was in the local PO and had to listen to a woman rant on and on about the power company not fixing her particular power problem despite the fact the everyone's power was out for miles around because "didn't they know I'm on SSI?" As if her welfare state effected where the blasted trees fell down.


----------



## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

fixitguy said:


> That's just a small indication of what will happen when the SHTF.
> 
> A few years ago we lost power in my little cow town. It was a Saturday evening on a nice day in July. At first all the kids went outside and played, by nightfall all the adults were outside talking to other neighbors.
> We have kerosene lanterns on our patio for decorations. Pretty soon people noticed we had lights and a radio. Before we knew it, we had 10-15 of our closest neighbors in our back yard. We were the most popular people on the whole street. At around 11p.m. the power came back on, all my friends left. On a normal day, half them people wont give me the time of day...
> ...


 

*note to self - make blackout curtains or interior shutters.
I have thought about stealth heating and stealth cooking before and had some thoughts on lights at night.
But this prompts me to want to add some sort of window covering so that no one could tell that we had light if TSHTF.

I had already planned to only fire up the woodstove at night so that no one could see the smoke and do the cooking then, but yeah.. darkened windows too.


----------



## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

"what am I going to do????""" 
I love that line. It's like everyone yelling, "the sky is falling.... the sky is falling". A couple of years or so back there was a boil order and people were going wild in the North-East. I just don't get it. I've grown up with boil orders off and on in Central USA all my life. Power goes out in thunderstorms. It is not a huge deal. I remember power being off for 4 days once when a tornado came through when I was a kid. People live through it. You find ways to save the food in the freezer or stock it with dry ice until the power is restored. You boil water. People are just a bit dramatic about these things.


----------



## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

MDKatie said:


> Because nobody would watch the news if the reporter said, "Power was out but everyone is fine and there's nothing to talk about." Drama sells, so they always have to find the most ignorant/panicky/freaked out person possible.


Sad that they skip their opportunity to show a comparison of the panic crowd and the prepared crowd. It would have been nice if they had stopped by the back yard "party" in your yard fixitguy. They could have made an impact on a LOT of people if they would have used that opportunity to send the right message to their audience. 

When my power was out for a couple weeks my son rigged up a car battery with lights over the kitchen table. We all sat around playing board games at night. It was a really good time with the entire family reconnecting. 

When the power came back on it was sad to see everyone go back to sticking their noses in the games and phones avoiding human contact again.



mekasmom said:


> "what am I going to do????"""
> I love that line. It's like everyone yelling, "the sky is falling.... the sky is falling". ... People are just a bit dramatic about these things.


It's the "gimme" mentality. They are the ones that will drop dead by a painful method in a national SHTF situation. They'll cry cause nobody is there holding their hand and taking care of them. Adult kids are what they are, totally dependent on "Uncle Sugar" to coddle them from birth to death. Then need to grow up and take responsibility, but the system is designed to keep them "children" until the day they die, then "Uncle Sugar" will send in a cheap clean up crew send them to the "Uncle Sugar" county body disposal site.


----------



## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

I don't think it's city people vs country people...it's caring about being self-sufficient and taking time to learn it (if you didn't grow up that way), vs believing that "they" will take care of everything and "I" don't need to worry about anything. That 2nd mindset works well....until it doesn't.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

manygoatsnmore said:


> I don't think it's city people vs country people...it's caring about being self-sufficient and taking time to learn it (if you didn't grow up that way), vs believing that "they" will take care of everything and "I" don't need to worry about anything. That 2nd mindset works well....until it doesn't.


I agree but I think the second mindset is much more likely in the city than in the country.


----------



## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Annsni said:


> I agree but I think the second mindset is much more likely in the city than in the country.


Agreed.


----------



## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Spinner said:


> .
> It's the "gimme" mentality.


I think this says it all.


----------



## NJ Rich (Dec 14, 2005)

I didn't read all the posts so.....

We have the "entitled people" who think they are entitled to have everything they want because they pay electric, water bills and taxes. 

"Oh poor me...." "I am going to sue them...." "I deserve to have power and water all the time..." "I don't care what happened I want blah, ba blah ba blah....." These people are everywhere not just in cities.

They will be the first to die when the SHTF. If the stores are closed and food is not stocked every day they will perish pleading for some one to save them... Spare me the pleading and crying. My sympathy jar is empty.

You can tell the members here will be survivors. But, as with me, not all family members believe they need to prepare for events. Too Bad So Sad. 

Yes family will come but must bring everything they have with them. I.e: food clothing ; bedding an whatever they can contribute.

The "I'll come to your house", is the thinking of many but "not happening". Nothing beats taking care of yourself. I wish I could do more but it is a work in progress.....


----------



## spacecase0 (Jul 12, 2012)

when I lived in a city, here is what I did to have water, 
http://spacecase0.blogspot.com/2009/08/mobile-kitchen-cart-with-sink-water.html 
being able to get by without power is one thing, 
but being able to get by without power in style is way better 
what is kind of funny about it is that after I moved out of the city, I use it every day for my drinking water. ( the well water is horrible here )


----------



## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Spacecase, that is a cute little mini-kitchen.


----------



## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

I don't get the impulse to look down on the city people who are unprepared...there but for the grace of God go I. We are not superior to city people simply because we live in the country and can survive a power outage without freaking out. We just have a mindset that many of them have not developed and we have learned some things that many of them have not. Human compassion leads me to want to help them learn the same things. Pointing and laughing at their ignorance probably isn't the best avenue to that effect.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

jtbrandt said:


> I don't get the impulse to look down on the city people who are unprepared...there but for the grace of God go I. We are not superior to city people simply because we live in the country and can survive a power outage without freaking out. We just have a mindset that many of them have not developed and we have learned some things that many of them have not. Human compassion leads me to want to help them learn the same things. Pointing and laughing at their ignorance probably isn't the best avenue to that effect.


But it's not like there is not info out there! It takes very little preparation to be ready for a water main break (VERY common in the city), a power outage (happens not too often but often enough), severe weather, etc. I can't imagine living anywhere knowing what can likely happen and then when it happens, whining and complaining "What am I to do?" It's easy - prepare. Heaven knows, the Red Cross and even New York City puts out info constantly on how to prepare for different emergencies. So I say to them stop complaining and do something about it!


----------



## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

My favorite power outage memory: I had spent the morning blanching and peeling peaches to can. By the time I had enough peeled to make a canner load, a pretty severe storm came through and knocked out power. I sat down with a good book and a glass of iced tea on the chance that it would be back on shortly. When we were still without power an hour later, it was time to improvise...........I can fruit in an extra light syrup, and could have used my emergency water supply, but chose instead, to make the light syrup with rain water! Just dipped it out of the rain barrel, brought it to a boil for a bit, then canned up those peaches.

I marked each jar lid with RAIN, so I could reminisce each time I opened a quart .

--it's all about learning to dance in the rain--


----------



## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Even when I lived in the city I knew how to deal with a power outage. No reason to whine and complain. Hungry? Peanut butter sandwich requires no power, thirsty, bottled water. If it's dark out, go to bed early. If it's day time, work/play/sit outside in the sun if it's not to hot. No reason to panic because the tv is out for a few hours. I don't understand that.


----------



## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Annsni said:


> But it's not like there is not info out there! It takes very little preparation to be ready for a water main break (VERY common in the city), a power outage (happens not too often but often enough), severe weather, etc. I can't imagine living anywhere knowing what can likely happen and then when it happens, whining and complaining "What am I to do?" It's easy - prepare. Heaven knows, the Red Cross and even New York City puts out info constantly on how to prepare for different emergencies. So I say to them stop complaining and do something about it!


Yeah, the information is out there and ideally most people would prepare for things before they happen...but we all know that isn't reality, and most of us were at one time or another unprepared ourselves...some among us here still are. Heck, preparation isn't really even needed for a power outage that lasts a few hours anyway, but maybe that short inconvenience that they think is a disaster will open their eyes...especially if a friendly prepper nudges them gently in that direction. Calling them clueless is kind of the opposite of that. Putting people down isn't helpful...not that we always have to be helpful, but it's good to try sometimes.

I am by no means a wonderful person, but I try to fight the instinct to look down my nose at people who aren't as prepared as I am. When I see clueless people like that on the news, it inspires me to make an effort to befriend more people outside of prepper circles and share what I've learned with them. I understand that sometimes it's just a way of venting frustration or even just having a chuckle at the nonsense in the world. It happens. But it's also good to try to make something positive out of the negatives like that. Sorry, I'm rambling and getting preachy...I just take this kind of thing a little more seriously. It's nothing against you or your post...just trying to give some perspective.


----------



## Guest (Dec 16, 2014)

I live in the 7th largest US city...


----------



## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Annsni said:


> I agree but I think the second mindset is much more likely in the city than in the country.


This is true but it isn't BECAUSE they live in the city, it's because cities are the locations where "uncle sugar" builds the free housing communities where the "gimme's" are rounded up and kept. 

People who live in the country were raised knowing how to grow and store food for winter and hard times. We are born to it. People in the city were not born to it, they don't have the resources we have. I admire the city people who have chosen to learn and I wish them the best, and hope they are able to get the heck away from there as soon as possible. 

The United States has a total land area of nearly 2.3 billion acres. 
Major uses in 2002 were: 
forest-use land, 651 million acres (28.8 percent); 
grassland pasture and range land, 587 million acres (25.9 percent); 
cropland, 442 million acres (19.5 percent); 
special uses (primarily parks and wildlife areas), 297 million acres (13.1 percent); 
miscellaneous other uses, 228 million acres (10.1 percent); and 
urban land, 60 million acres (2.6 percent).

There are about 115,610,216 families in America (2013 census record)

That breaks down to: 
4 acres farmland per family. 
5 acres of grassland per family.
5 1/2 acres of forest per family.
2 acres per family âmiscellaneous useâ 
2 1/2 acres per family for âspecial usesâ 
And elimination of all those cities would add another 1/2 acre per family.

That works out to 15 - 20 acres per family for every single family in the country! 

There's no reason why we shouldn't ALL be able to raise our own food.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Spinner said:


> This is true but it isn't BECAUSE they live in the city, it's because cities are the locations where "uncle sugar" builds the free housing communities where the "gimme's" are rounded up and kept.
> 
> People who live in the country were raised knowing how to grow and store food for winter and hard times. We are born to it. People in the city were not born to it, they don't have the resources we have. I admire the city people who have chosen to learn and I wish them the best, and hope they are able to get the heck away from there as soon as possible.
> 
> ...


And I wouldn't even go so far as to say that they need to raise their own food but for heaven's sake, be able to deal with a 5 hour power outage!! Or as in the case of Sandy, up to a week. It's not THAT hard and it's not THAT expensive either!! Even in a studio apartment, you can have a bin of emergency supplies that would get you through a week easily and then you just need to store 3 days worth of water. Gardening isn't even in the immediate need although I agree with you that they might want to learn how to do that too.


----------



## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Spinner said:


> This is true but it isn't BECAUSE they live in the city, it's because cities are the locations where "uncle sugar" builds the free housing communities where the "gimme's" are rounded up and kept.
> 
> People who live in the country were raised knowing how to grow and store food for winter and hard times. We are born to it. People in the city were not born to it, they don't have the resources we have. I admire the city people who have chosen to learn and I wish them the best, and hope they are able to get the heck away from there as soon as possible.
> 
> ...


If what you are suggesting were to be attempted everyone would die. There would be no management, no social structure, no infrastructure. There would be no industries happening anywhere. No essential trade with other countries. No military to protect the country. No professions and no employment. No roads. No vehicles. No Electricity. No gas and oil. No essential tools and supplies. No medicine. No science. No education. No society.

Everyone would be living in the worst poverty and illness at less than subsistance levels trying to scrape a living and providing everything for themselves off their 20 acres per family. Meanwhile all of the country would fall apart into disrepair, ruin and social anarchy and lawlessness, soon to be invaded and taken over by another nation that would know how to manage the land.

The prosperity and success of all nations and the resources management of the nations is built upon their towns and cities and the societies that live in and around the cities. Cities are where industries, businesses, governments, trade, land and resource management and more are seated. Cities are the hearts of nations. When cities die the nation dies.


----------



## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Fennick said:


> If what you are suggesting were to be attempted everyone would die. ... When cities die the nation dies.


Cities are only 1/2 acre of the total per family. I'm not advocating getting rid of the cities, military complexes, and other infrastructure, although it sounded that way in my original post. All I'm saying is that we have enough land if it was not mismanaged so badly, there is enough for everyone to spread out and have space to grow a garden, raise a few chickens or rabbits, even a milk goat if they want one. 

We have acreage today that is being used by terrorists to train against us. WHY is that happening on our own soil? Our land is being mismanaged in many ways including being poisoned and that poison running into the waterways. 

Sorry I put the original post together badly and not much better on this one. I get really emotional about the things happening in our land today.


----------



## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

You have to remember that no matter how good the management, not all land can be productive. Water issues, high altitudes, and/or cold climates all make it impossible to use 100% of the land in the USA. It sounds good on paper, but it's not realistic.


----------

