# Homestead plans - please critique!



## shingleback (Feb 10, 2015)

Hi all,

We've come up with a draft floor plan of our 40x23' (12x7 metre) 1.5 story family home and we were hoping to get some feedback on it from the homesteading community.

There are a few considerations/constraints that I should mention:

*We're on an island in the southern hemisphere - mild sub-tropical climate - temperatures range 80F (26C) - 50F (12C). It's still quite cold through winter so we want to have some passive solar properties (plus a fireplace), and summer can be quite warm/humid.
*We're on a strict budget, so we are trying to keep costs minimal, use space efficiently, etc.
*My father and I intend to build the house ourselves. Dad has building experience and has built a few local homes - so the local materials will be familiar. I've got some basic carpentry skills but will be learning as I go.
*The house site is located on a ridge with nice views to the North we want to take advantage of (hence all the glass and the veranda on the North side)
*Building materials on offer is primarily local pine, which we intend to use for everything except interior cladding (Gyprock) and roofing (corrugated metal aka "Colourbond"). Concrete is available but very expensive, so to be used sparingly (footings). Weatherboard exterior. Note - those doors to the study/bedroom will indeed fit - the house will have 10' walls with 8' ceilings and 40D pitched roof.
*Wide (3') eaves to keep the rain off (50" annual rainfall) and provide passive solar effect.
*The home will form the nucleus of a couple-of-acre homestead. Hence we will both be using the kitchen a lot for preserving/cooking/etc, hence the large size and large pantry. A workshop/shed will also be added to the property later.
*For simplicity/cost, and also because we want a composting toilet, we only want one toilet and one shower in total.

Draft plans and sketch below. 

Like? Dislike? Any suggestions for improvement? Be brutally honest...nothing is set in stone at the moment!


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

I'm no building advisor, just love looking at plans.

I like the size, very reasonable and not too large to cost you on upkeep or heat/cool.

I'm not sure I like the placement of the wood stove. It looks like double doors there, would open right into the stove and/or the furniture placement you have. Maybe they open OUT onto that covered porch. I guess being here in a colder climate winter, I'd rather have the stove more toward the center of the home, or incorporated into that kitchen space.

Are you young? One thing I've learned getting into the second half of life is that I wish I had a home with ground floor bedroom. I might make that sitting area on ground floor your bedroom, use the porch for sitting in your nice climate. Put entry door on that living/dining side. Cut down on the upper level space.

I'm curious if a basement or root cellar (even if only partial footprint) is possible on the property. Might be a good safe measure for tropical storms on an island? Or more cold storage for veggies, etc. in a humid area. 

Definitely not familiar with your location and the weather effects.

Basically I have nothing to offer from a construction standpoint, but just from a design preference! LOL Just my thoughts. Best of luck to you guys.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I would put the stove more between the living area and kitchen. So heat can float up the stairs easier and so downstairs will be more evenly warmed.
I do like it overall. 

And why not swap the mud room and shower, so the bathroom can be a total be nude area without a hallway to worry about.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

I think you're overestimating the room your going to have on the second floor. THe roof pitch by the iso drawing is going to cut out a lot of what you have shown as rooms. 

Might look into making it 24' wide instead of 23'. subfloor comes in standard 4 by 8 sheets. But then you also have that 23' by 18' clear area with nothing to support the second floor. That's going to take some pretty good sized floor joists. What size and spacing do you have planned there?

WWW


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## philm (Dec 16, 2014)

id get a bigger EPA certified stove and have it more centrally located.


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## shingleback (Feb 10, 2015)

double post


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## shingleback (Feb 10, 2015)

partndn said:


> I'm no building advisor, just love looking at plans.
> 
> I like the size, very reasonable and not too large to cost you on upkeep or heat/cool.
> 
> ...


Thanks partdn. Yes it sounds like the fireplace needs to be moved, so I will definitely reposition that. 
You make a fair point about schlepping upstairs as you get older, and I have thought about this. It's a compromise I guess I'm happy to go with for now - if it gets really bad some day I reckon I'll tack on an extension for another bed room.
I'd like a root cellar but I was thinking to add an external one at a later date. I'm not sure how make a provision for one with a timber-floored home. Is it something that you'd stress I should try to design into the floor of the place now, instead of adding an external one later? (I want one but I've no experience with actually having a root cellar - I'm clueless in this area!)


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## shingleback (Feb 10, 2015)

AngieM2 said:


> I would put the stove more between the living area and kitchen. So heat can float up the stairs easier and so downstairs will be more evenly warmed.
> I do like it overall.
> 
> And why not swap the mud room and shower, so the bathroom can be a total be nude area without a hallway to worry about.


I'll look into this!


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## shingleback (Feb 10, 2015)

wy_white_wolf said:


> I think you're overestimating the room your going to have on the second floor. THe roof pitch by the iso drawing is going to cut out a lot of what you have shown as rooms.
> 
> Might look into making it 24' wide instead of 23'. subfloor comes in standard 4 by 8 sheets. But then you also have that 23' by 18' clear area with nothing to support the second floor. That's going to take some pretty good sized floor joists. What size and spacing do you have planned there?
> 
> WWW


Hi WWW,

Yes the room sizes up stairs are going to be much smaller than the image depicts in terms of standing room. The room with the bunks for instance will only have about 10 feet of walking space before you need to crouch down...the study only about 3 feet. We're happy with this though - rooms are very much "just for sleeping" in our house, so we don't put much value on them being overly spacious if you know what I mean. Maybe I'm being a bit too extreme though - let me know if you think so.

Floor joists were going to be 8x2" with 2' distance between joists. Does that make sense? I can get more info from dad on what he planned to do here in terms of structure, if you like.


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## HMAN (Sep 15, 2008)

2X8 2'o.c. ? that is not strong enough at all. unless you like living on a trampoline ! 
2x10 yp #1 will span 16' @16" o.c. with a 55psf loading on them. thats a normal residential load. if that gives you an idea on what you want to do for beam placement.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

shingleback said:


> ...Floor joists were going to be 8x2" with 2' distance between joists. Does that make sense? I can get more info from dad on what he planned to do here in terms of structure, if you like.


Not near enough. You have to go to "structural select" to get even 1/2 the span you have. Even if you put a beam from the stairs to the end wall you need at least 1 post breaking up the beam span.

Here's a span calculator for you to look at:

http://www.awc.org/calculators/span...d=10&submit=Calculate+Maximum+Horizontal+Span

WWW


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## shingleback (Feb 10, 2015)

Sorry - I've just recalled there is indeed a beam and post to go in there as you've said. We were looking at the spanning tables when we were designing the place and I remember Dad mentioning it.


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## shingleback (Feb 10, 2015)

Here's a few 3D views of the bottom floor for y'all to look at. I've included the supporting post, and shifted the stove a bit. The other place I'm tempted to put the stove is near the supporting post in the center, or perhaps halfway between where it is now and the supporting post.

Further suggestions for improvement welcome!


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

A work stove between the kitchen and dinning room is also a warming place for hot foods.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

shingleback said:


> Thanks partdn. Yes it sounds like the fireplace needs to be moved, so I will definitely reposition that.
> You make a fair point about schlepping upstairs as you get older, and I have thought about this. It's a compromise I guess I'm happy to go with for now - if it gets really bad some day I reckon I'll tack on an extension for another bed room.
> I'd like a root cellar but I was thinking to add an external one at a later date. *I'm not sure how make a provision for one with a timber-floored home. Is it something that you'd stress I should try to design into the floor of the place now, instead of adding an external one later?* (I want one but I've no experience with actually having a root cellar - I'm clueless in this area!)


Yikes, I don't know anything about how to advise that. I was just thinking a small island, and tropical storm possibles, so a cellar, even partial would be your safe run-to space. And cool storage of course.

I bet some smart people here could address what might be needed from a construction standpoint. I'm sure it could be done later at another spot on your property too.


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## shingleback (Feb 10, 2015)

> A work stove between the kitchen and dinning room is also a warming place for hot foods.


Yes, in the winter months I'd definitely like to use the fire stove for cups of tea and perhaps cooking. On the other hand I kind of wanted to keep it nearby to the seating area so that the family can sit around the fire in winter. With this in mind, any suggestions on where you think I could put it exactly?


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## potter28 (Sep 10, 2014)

Your bathroom configuration won't work. There will not be enough room to get around the sink. Assuming that your installing a 36" door opening which looks like the bathroom width it would be a real tight fit. Any way to enter the bathroom in the middle with toilet and sink on either end would work much better. I would incorporate the shower into the same room as well, only need one exhaust fan then.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Straight forward but lined up behind the dinning head chair.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Is the separate shower room a custom where you are? I know it is in some European countries. If not, I would put them together -- much more convenient, IMO. 

I do think I'd put the stove near that post, facing the living area and perhaps rearrange the furniture so you can see the fire? 

Also, I think your kitchen might be too spread out for good efficiency. Are you going to put a work table or an island in the middle? That would help a lot there.

Also, I don't know what you'll be using for building materials, but if you are using commercial stuff like plywood, you might want to make sure the plans most efficiently use those materials. Perhaps in metric countries they dimension plywood differently, but here you'd want to design your house in multiples of four feet (preferably) or two feet, but definitely not odd numbers like the 23' you used. You'd end up wasting materials and/or making more cuts than needed.

But I see a lot to like about the plan! May be a few ideas I can use for the house I'm starting on this summer!

Kathleen


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## Skandi (Oct 21, 2014)

Is there going to be an outbuilding for a larger freezer? Or are you planning one in the pantry, a small under counter one won't take you far with preserving. 

I can't comment on structural issues. But I agree with what's been said put the stove in the middle somewhere, and run the chimney through a bedroom if possible, get all the heat possible, though at 12C min? you'll not be wanting it much I wouldn't think!

Freeholder, the 23ft turns into 7 meters, which is round enough. though it would be worth looking at, here things come in 1.2m and 0.9m JUST to be annoying


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

I would suggest running the framing up past the first story, and raise the roof on the second (or 1/2 story), our house is only about a foot up but it is a 12x12 pitch, but most of the second level is usable, if it was 2 foot up it would nearly have doubled the room size in usability and if 3 foot one would have nearly complete use of the second level, 

see picture of illustration.

from http://www.countrycarpenters.com/a14.htm

another suggestion would not to put the entry in the building but build shed roof over the entrance and add to the house size,

my two cents,


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

Not a lot of time to comment on this, but I thought I'd throw a couple things out quickly to think about. 

- It seems like a shame to use so much space in a small house for "hallways". Can you rearrange those to reduce that a little? A walk-through laundry room perhaps? And agree with previous suggestion to combine the shower and toilet rooms even if you screen them a little from one another so they could theoretically both be used at the same time.

- And how about open upstairs with just enough side walls to create some "nooks" in the low-ceiling areas for sleeping berths like on a ship? That would leave more usefull open space in the middle for family activites.

- Regarding toilets, it seems like a shame to limit yourself to one for a house that seems like it will be pretty full. We use the "Humanure Handbook" sawdust bucket system in our suburban home and it costs nothing if you can find free sawdust (or equivalent for your area) and you can set them up anywhere because there is no water or power hookup to worry about. Something to consider anyway.

Sounds like a fun project! Let us know how it goes.


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## PeasantDaughter (May 31, 2013)

I was wondering about site orientation. I would turn it a little to the NNE so it is lined up for maximum solar gain if you're going to have roof-top PV, as well as working with the contours beter. Also, I would put it down-slope a little so you can have a gravity-fed water system.

And I'll echo what others have said about putting all the plumbing on the same wall and in the same line for economy and ease of installation. And more is not always better in a kitchen, even with extensive food prep area needed, efficiency is more important. 

I also don't get the really large recessed porch, which is valuable real-estate, when a long deck with a shed roof would provide a wonderful island lanai. 

If it were me, I would have a venting cupola over the stairwell and air intake from the floor for some convection current to cool you off during the summer. 

I'd take a look at vernacular island architecture. Many generations of people have already figured out something appropriate for the climate and lifestyle, which is a tradition you can continue.


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