# Dogs and shtf



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

So does everyone have a thought about your dogs. For protection or your homestead and livestock,garden? Will you muzzle them so they can't be poisoned by the zombies? What are your thoughts/plans?


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

I talk about this a lot with DS.
I figure that things like this are more apt to affect his life then mine.

I have suggested no dogs.
But we are more of the 'hide to stay alive' camp.

Dogs bark.
That alerts folks that there is someone/something nearby.
Yes.. they alert the owner, but they also alert zombies of the human kind.

We have discussed the quiet livestock.. quails, guinea pigs etc..
as alternatives to the noisy ones.


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## Vosey (Dec 8, 2012)

I have thought about all the people who won't be feeding or taking care of their dogs. I'd be happy to take in a few more just for protection, but it's going to be sad how many starving strays will be out there. 

I hadn't thought about poisoning, just someone shooting the dogs. The zombies are more likely going to have guns than poison.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Oh, see,,,, I hadn't thought about Strays. Roving packs of hungry dogs, yikes.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

If I was a zombie I would eat stray dogs....or was that Mr. POTUS?:teehee:


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

i dont go into much detail but my family that lived through the great depression kept dogs and they made them thrive on several levels at that time.they became known in dog world for their dogs...mainly my great uncles. i grew up being around them and it rubbed off a bit on me.

people talk about in depression wild game was all gone yad yad yad.....well it was killed off long before then....BUT....BUT...my family thrived because of the dogs.

one thing folks gotta get their head wrapped around is dogs are not pets..they are livestock and they have a job to do.most all breeds had a specific task at hand and i know this aint going to be popular.....but we humans have about ruined many breeds of dogs because of breeding criteria....in my opinion..ability first....conformation next for ability not a show ring.

be a good judge of a true working dog is a lost art in our society.being a good owner/master/alfa symbol over a pack of dogs is a lost art too.

one element of dog is everyone should have a earth dogs and some type of a lurcher dog that stay with them for bigger tougher work and protection.a earth dog cant fight off a coyote and i know of this happening before lurcher could get there and coyote dropped the earth dog...seen by human eyes as lurcher was coming on the scene but it was to late.

rodents on a working and producing homestead will need earth dogs to hold down rodent and varment problems. i have friends here in my area that spent 11 years in kenya....their best tool was their jack russels as they kept the cobras out of the house.

sorry 7th for rambling i could go on and on...


p.s....i wonder how many know what a silent mouthed dog is.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Dingo


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Basingi is silent.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

mpillow said:


> Dingo


theres a dog out of israel that similar to a dingo that a guy in n.c.(going on memory) has a pack of that is very interesting dog.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm for sure the alpha here, as I'm a Rottweiler person, I have to be. But I do wounder how folks will have approach having house dogs then expect them to be guardians overnight. Having considered that we would have to put up our cows in the barn at night, maybe have an armed person awake all night. This is where people that want to come here because-"I'm comeing to your house if things go south" might come in handy.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

7thswan said:


> Basingi is silent.



ever see working dogs trained on hand signals....its very interesting to watch.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

My brother had a 3/4 dingo (illegally) ...very high strung....but submissive.

I'm a dog lover...the only dog I ever had trouble with was a JRT....never met one I liked.

A lab/rottie cross would make a "beefy" dog....the lab needs the rottie "enemy" mindset and the rottie needs the labs coat and obedient nature.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I don't expect my dogs to go tangle with a man out in the dark. That's my job. Their job is to notice the creeper and to wake me up. 

In SHTF, probably one of our dogs will have to go, but there's several others I will keep. They have their purposes.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Yes, I teach my dogs both hand signals and German. 
What I'd really like to know, are people going to keep them outside, and what is the plan to keep the dog safe. A good dog is too valuable to take the chance of being harmed, so I need to hear of things that I'm not comeing up with on my own. My plans for feeding my dogs is as important as feeding my family, so I'm working on that-they are quite the vegitarians!(they do get meat tho)


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

if fuel becomes cost prohibitive..meaning its takes as much energy to get a barrel out of ground as is in a barrel...well we cant do that for long....but if we go back to sail power we will need more skipper key dogs for deck dogs....them little rascals can be rowdy ankle eaters....lol


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

7thswan said:


> Yes, I teach my dogs both hand signals and German.
> What I'd really like to know, are people going to keep them outside, and what is the plan to keep the dog safe. A good dog is too valuable to take the chance of being harmed, so I need to hear of things that I'm not comeing up with on my own. My plans for feeding my dogs is as important as feeding my family, so I'm working on that-they are quite the vegitarians!(they do get meat tho)


Yes, they are outside. They are chained up right by the porch. Someone could maybe shoot them from a distance, but they can't get up close and do them harm. The dogs will begin barking if someone approaches at 200 yards or more, and that's when I'm up and peeking out the window to see what gives. 

A watch dog wouldn't do me any good if they were inside where they couldn't see anything, but I can't figure out how to completely protect them if they're on the outside. 

If you read up on what happened in Rhodesia, you'll see how invaluable the dogs were to the white farmers, but also you'll see how the dogs were killed off over time (your fears are valid) and that it was part of the war of attrition the white farmers fought against the blacks.

We can already see signs that our SHTF will not be so much "Mad Max" as it will be like Rhodesia. Look, for example, and the Chicago government and their "rent-a-thug" program where they paid money to criminal gangs and those gangs then went about committing yet more crime. Or how Eric Holder and his "justice" department turned a blind eye to criminality in the elections by the Black Panthers. Or, for yet another example, of the media's complicit agenda in ignoring the "knockout game".

So I advocate multiple dogs, good watchdogs, and a level of alertness which will have you up, armed, and watchful when they begin barking at night. A man can kill your dogs if they are armed, and then retreat before you have an opportunity to retaliate. You want to make it as risky of a proposition to kill your dogs as it would be to kill YOU.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

That would be good, some just for outside. We are in the process of fencing in an area around the house, which includes the gardens, just for the dogs. I keep thinking of when we just moved here, someone, a woman came and stold the first thing I had brought up-some plants and a shop broom. After we had moved in she tried again and came thru a gate in her truck dh saw her ,on the lower pasture,so that the neighbor would not beable to see her in the back of our house. It makes me have to think sneaky, like a criminal. I know how my inside dogs are, they would give me plenty of time to grab what I need. But outside, heck both my neighbors have dogs that bark all night long, it doesn't do any good, I'm sure they ignore it.
I will have to read up on Rhodesia


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

In Rhodesia, you had an old system of white farmers (big property owners) and socialist rebels who came in and wanted to drive them out and take their land.

One of the socialist rebels ended up getting elected to power and then the depravations against the white farmers truly began. Before that it had been just sort of a guerilla war, but once their guy was in power it REALLY ramped up.

White farmers had to link up in a defense force, and even that was eventually broken down. Night after night, socialist rebels would attack the fences, kill the dogs, shoot cattle, and then retreat. Or sometimes they'd just show up, shoot a little at the house, and then retreat. It was a fear campaign to wear down the whites. The government was not only turning a blind eye to this, but they were in fact sponsoring this campaign of terror. It served their purpose. Because the government wouldn't help them, the white farmers formed their own militias to defend the farms. The militias then ranged in activities from exterminating all blacks NEAR the farms to simply responding to attacks.

There were plenty of atrocities on both sides, but keep in mind who gets to write the history books about it now. The white farmers eventually lost and were all either killed or driven out. So Rhodesia, considered the breadbasket of Africa and a thriving nation, became Zimbabwe. And we know what Zimbabwe looks like today under the rule of the black socialists there.

As a SHTF model, it's a pretty good one with lots of parallels. I look at these histories as a means to draw information from and build survival plans around.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

7thswan said:


> It makes me have to think sneaky, like a criminal.


Well, I have discovered that criminals run with criminals and they have their own information streams and gossip centers.

Since our run in last year with some, and my very aggressive response, we haven't had any trouble. Before that we would see vehicles occasionally driving by and "casing" the place, but even that has stopped.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

This thread is useless without photo's

My guys will let me know when someones coming, plus retrieve my food. And... with the four of us in one room and the doors closed, we can also keep a room pretty warm.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

i done a dog thread on working dogs...i only wish i had done it here in this forum instead of singletree as i think more could have gleaned info from it but mods would not allow it to be moved....so heres a link.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/specialty-forums/country-singletree/504426-working-dogs.html


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Barking or not barking, you'd have to assess your situation to see what would suit you. Remember you'll have to feed that dog, so more compact is better than huge and hungry. Pound for pound, giant breeds don't eat much, but in sheer amount, yeah, they eat a lot. If you live in town you'll need a different dog than if you live well outside of town, than if you live out in the wilderness.

Packs of stray dogs will starve to death. Once they can't get garbage they won't know what to do. Most breeds of dogs have been bred to not kill, even hunting dogs. Your terriers will do fine on rats and squirrels, but the others are doomed. If they make it to your homestead, you'll shoot them, so there's the end. This is why you have to think about feeding your big protection dog. You might be able to teach him to catch and eat mice. If you expect the dog to find his own dinner, make sure you have a breed that will do that. I know of dogs that will, but they are independent and not really good guard dogs.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

With the right spice, your dog will be good eating!


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

bowdonkey said:


> With the right spice, your dog will be good eating!


Not my dog, they's too fat to be good eaten!


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Fat is where the flavor is!!!!:shrug: Doggy bacon!


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Ernie said:


> In Rhodesia, you had an old system of white farmers (big property owners) and socialist rebels who came in and wanted to drive them out and take their land.
> 
> One of the socialist rebels ended up getting elected to power and then the depravations against the white farmers truly began. Before that it had been just sort of a guerilla war, but once their guy was in power it REALLY ramped up.
> 
> ...


That's a fascinating take on Rhodesian history there. You never cease to amaze.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

bowdonkey said:


> With the right spice, your dog will be good eating!



You would make an excellent target.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Only if you see me!


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

We've got both a Great Pyr, and a loud mouthed little mutt. They both serve their purposes well, however I also understand how vulnerable they are. Someone drugged them about 2 years ago. One morning instead of waiting expectantly for their food at the back door, they were asleep. One in the doghouse, the other in the grass. I couldn't get either to get up, although I could see they were alive. I've got a pretty good idea who did it, and if I could prove it there would definitely be a jury trial in my future.

We depend much more on our alarm system, scattered around our property than on the dogs. They can't be tampered with without setting them off, and the ones that can be seen, can only be seen when leaving. And yes, we've got replacements stored.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

bowdonkey said:


> Only if you see me!



While you're sitting around with your bottle waiting for something to get stuck in your trap, I'll be tracking your butt.


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## Vosey (Dec 8, 2012)

Beautiful hounds oneraddad!

What about long term feeding of your dogs? I have short term down, but I've only given vague thought to when that runs out. It's easy to say we'll trap squirrels and racoons etc. But honestly, we have very few squirrels and raccoons here now. My neighbor traps and all he gets are skunks! I don't want to rely on assuming we'll easily get deer and fish. I know they can eat rice, lentils, sprouted beans, quinoa and similar proteins. 
Anyone have plans?


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

oneraddad said:


> While you're sitting around with your bottle waiting for something to get stuck in your trap, I'll be tracking your butt.


WOW, that is one beautiful pack of hounds! I have a real soft spot for any kind of hound. I grew up **** hunting. Beautiful country too. I couldn't bear to break that group up, I'll find someone else's mut! Is that a cat on the right?


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

if you ever wanna learn something about scent trailing you should read a book called ...meet mr. grizzly by montague stevens....he was an aristocrat from england that moved to u.s. southwest to ranch.he done much research on dogs noses..especially blood hounds..













First published in 1943 but long out of print, "Meet Mr. Grizzly" was rated by J. Frank Dobie in "Guide to Life and Literature of the Southwest as "...the most mature yet published by a ranchman." Now this singular reminiscence by a remarkable man is drawing a whole new generation of readers. Montague Stevens was much more than a one-armed British remittance man with a passion for bear hunting. Educated at Cambridge, he was one of the most literate chroniclers of New Mexico's rural history. That he lived in a time when grizzlies still roamed the wilds of southwest New Mexico makes Steven's observations of great interest to today's bear enthusiasts. His well reasoned comments on natural history, dog training, and the life of an early day cattleman are an invaluable reference.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Those are my friends dogs, they eat a lot of cat's and bear. But if times got tough, we could shoot deer or trespassers out my window when needed.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Cat hunting has to be a rush. I always wanted to stick one brought to bay with my longbow. Elk, I'll see if Project Guttenberg has that book.


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

Historically ... the indians have been eating dogs for hundreds of years. Do some searches of historical records for more information. There is documentation/narratives for the 18th century. 

Just one blurb of historical info:
_Western Indians considered puppies a delicacy. It was a big honor to serve guests boiled puppy for supper.
J.J. Audubon's journal of his 1843 expedition to Yellowstone. He painted a portrait of a man and his Indian wife. To reward him for doing the painting, they honored him with a dinner of puppy. He didn't want to insult them, so he decided he would eat one bite.. He was "astonished" to find that it tasted as good as any other meat he ever had. _

There is definitely more meat on dogs than my scrawny cats !!! The neighbors horse would feed alot of the local people if people really needed food badly. 

Dogs can be good or bad ....depending on who owns the dog for sentry purposes. I actually would rather have a smaller dog for sentry duty. They are high-wired nervous little things and seem to always be on the alert about something .......

Ohio Rusty ><>


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

bowdonkey said:


> Cat hunting has to be a rush. I always wanted to stick one brought to bay with my longbow. Elk, I'll see if Project Guttenberg has that book.



It's a total rush, but a lot of work. Those dogs can chase cats miles and miles into wilderness area's.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

couldnt resist! My son used to sing this incessantly at about age 3-4....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIs9cnrlJY4[/ame]


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

I've ate dog and monkey, they both were excellent with alcohol. I've gone without the three of them for years though.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

elkhound said:


> if you ever wanna learn something about scent trailing you should read a book called ...meet mr. grizzly by montague stevens....he was an aristocrat from england that moved to u.s. southwest to ranch.he done much research on dogs noses..especially blood hounds..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I taught my Rottie , Magic, to track wounded Deer, blood only. I used to shoot comp. archery , and bow hunt, so I had much contact with people that need a tracker. We have a number of folks around here with dogs for bear. Dh gets invited, but his health won't let him go.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Vosey said:


> Beautiful hounds oneraddad!
> 
> What about long term feeding of your dogs? I have short term down, but I've only given vague thought to when that runs out. It's easy to say we'll trap squirrels and racoons etc. But honestly, we have very few squirrels and raccoons here now. My neighbor traps and all he gets are skunks! I don't want to rely on assuming we'll easily get deer and fish. I know they can eat rice, lentils, sprouted beans, quinoa and similar proteins.
> Anyone have plans?


I feed mine kale,squash,pumpkin,peas,beans,chard,green beans,carrots -all kinds of greens,chopped added to water that I boiled bones and meat in for hours, to soften the bones .I remove the bones that are not soft(save them for next time). Then I add brown rice, bought in bulk. A presto canner full will feed my 3 100+ dogs for a week. We have about a ton of dog food in the barn, but my dogs are healthier on homemade food and the chickens get the dog food(made into a mush with hot water).


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Back in the 90's there was a very vocal opponent of hunting with hounds that was getting publicity in a couple bowhunter rags. It started a war with words with a gentleman from NM. Though the conversation remained civil, it created a lot of division among bowhunters. Many lobbied their Game Dept to outlaw the practice. The very well heeled were leading the charge. The hound hunter from NM was pretty much the lone voice in the wilderness. He put out an invite to anyone to come on out and see how easy it is. I responded even though I wasn't a detractor. He said to come on out, he'd pay for everything. I wasn't special, it was just something he did with lots of folks. He wanted to share this experience. Of the few times I've been broke this was one of them. In hindsight I could have cashed in some mutual funds and went cat hunting. I didn't and kick myself everytime I think about it. There it was, handed to me, and I got tight with life and now I don't have the experience or memory. It's one of those things that will really haunt me once I get to the old folks home. But I did trap in various western states over the years. Though trapping has its own type of excitement, it always was a job with me. I doubt it would come close to trying to keep up with a pack of hounds and hopefully having a live mountain lion waiting at the end instead of a dead muskrat.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

My JRT has little interest in mice, but any cat that is unfortunate enough to enter his vicinity is doomed. 

Man, he reallllly hates cats.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

oneraddad said:


> I've ate dog and monkey, they both were excellent with alcohol. I've gone without the three of them for years though.


I've also eaten those and they are good prepared properly. I've gone without on two of em. Did you ever eat the rice pudding that is slow cooked in the dogs stomach? Lots of stories on how it was made. I really hope none are true.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Tiempo said:


> My JRT has little interest in mice, but any cat that is unfortunate enough to enter his vicinity is doomed.
> 
> Man, he reallllly hates cats.


A friend of ours has a pack of JRT's, the cat knows to never leave the barn. JRT's seem to be smart little dogs, too much energy for me.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

oneraddad said:


> While you're sitting around with your bottle waiting for something to get stuck in your trap, I'll be tracking your butt.


 It's nice to see a really healthy pack of hunting dogs!


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## WV Farm girl (Nov 26, 2011)

My old JRT was one of the best hunters I have ever seen in his younger days! I've lost count of the raccoons, opossums and groundhogs he has cornered. He would have easily helped feed us if needed. 
Smart as a whip. Never touched my chickens or ducks when I had them. I simply walked him out there daily when they were penned and told him No when he looked at them. Once they were loose he never gave them a second look. Always on patrol. I don't think anything got pass him. 
Hope I get as lucky with another one in the future.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Nigel has his mellow moments


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

You realize, of course, that your dogs are probably occasionally looking at you and wondering whether you're worth keeping around in a SHTF scenario.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

That's the great thing about dogs. At least farm dogs! They are like tools, different ones for different jobs. Just as I wouldn't attempt to garden with only one tool, I wouldn't attempt to run a homestead with only one type of dog.

The little "quick fire yappers" to sound the alarm, the "all muscle and purpose" for guarding and herding, and the good hunters for bringing home some eats. I agree that I would rather be the one to dispatch any problem that my guard dogs were holding at bay.

You can train dogs to accept food and water from one specific source or location. That would cut down on the likelihood of people being able to poison them.

I agree that many modern dogs have been bred so much for appearance that all useful traits have disappeared and many health problems have crept in. Several years ago, my daughter and I helped with a field trial for a popular breed of hunting dogs. It was a joke. Most of the so called retrievers had never heard a gun, never seen a bird, and had absolutely no idea of what to do when one was down. They couldn't point their way out of a paper bag, let alone have a clue about how to mouth and carry a bird. All flash, practically no function.

So if you happen to find yourself in the position of being able to pick and choose from a pack of marauding strays, be sure to focus first on function, then soundness, and leave looks for last.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

ovsfarm, when I was in high school I got a two year old Irish Setter from the Humane Society. People would stop driving to watch him. Grace and beauty with lovely fringe. I'm sure he would have been a great hunting dog. Oh, to see him point!

He was the smartest dog I've had, and I've had a standard poodle and a border collie. I'd never get another because 1) so much energy, and 2) where would I find a smart Irish Setter?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Tiempo said:


> Nigel has his mellow moments


Waiting for a piece of hoof trimmens? Dog Candy.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

He's not allowed them, he got really sick when he was two from we have no idea what and since then he's had an easily upset tummy


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

ovsfarm said:


> Several years ago, my daughter and I helped with a field trial for a popular breed of hunting dogs. It was a joke. Most of the so called retrievers had never heard a gun, never seen a bird, and had absolutely no idea of what to do when one was down. They couldn't point their way out of a paper bag, let alone have a clue about how to mouth and carry a bird. All flash, practically no function.


I traded for a high dollar "field trial" champion years ago. Worthless for hunting. He'd work like a thing of beauty for about 20 minutes, the find some shade. Apparently that's about how long field trials last. 

I had a union dog.


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## montysky (Aug 21, 2006)

Two Akitas and one Chihuahua cross, the three dogs work well together their main job is to protect the ranch house, and family and toss in a 6 foot 5 an 1/2 275 pound cowboy (me) we have our bases covered.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I have an older terrier. He loves to hunt the varmints that bother the garden, but of course he would never bring to us any of his beloved voles or mice!

I actually appreciate that behavior in him! He may keep them all!


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## bouvi (Jun 1, 2013)

look at all the Treeing Walkers your neighbours must love you


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

bouvi said:


> look at all the Treeing Walkers your neighbours must love you


I would MUCH rather listen to some good old **** dog or hound than my neighbors 5 barking, mean, stupid dogs..UGH!


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## bouvi (Jun 1, 2013)

me too 
we have a Walker we rescued 3 years ago and he loves to sing


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## gunsmithgirl (Sep 28, 2003)

This is my Cane Corso when she was about 6 months old she was only a few weeks into training here. She continued training until about age 2. She still gets a refresher every now and then.Mainly just for her enjoyment though, I don't think once through a good training program they ever forget. I sleep real good when she's around. A trained protection dog is worth their feed. If I ever had to bug out she will go with me.
As to questions in the OP dogs can be trained easily to not accept food from anyone but their owner, even if it is thrown across a yard for a distraction, a well trained dog will ignore it.


We also have a rat terrier, he is about the dumbest dog I have ever owned, but he does kill a ton of rats and mice. Good for rodent control, not much else.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I've never had a good hunting dog.  

That's a pretty big pack though. What do you think the minimum number of them is in order to run down game?


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Ernie said:


> I've never had a good hunting dog.
> 
> That's a pretty big pack though. What do you think the minimum number of them is in order to run down game?



My one friend has 3 dogs and he gets a couple cats every year. 

I didn't grow up doing this, I just moved to lion country and met hunters that were happy to meet me.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

oneraddad said:


> My one friend has 3 dogs and he gets a couple cats every year.
> 
> I didn't grow up doing this, I just moved to lion country and met hunters that were happy to meet me.


We've got catamount here but they're pretty thin on the ground and I don't have any inclination towards eating them.

What I'd like is to have dogs that could run deer down for you. Or even just find them in the brush and bring them back towards you.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

hahahaha..... I already showed you pictures of my Retriever's.


I'm scared a game wardens gonna show up and think I killed some of the stuff they bring home.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Dogs and livestock can be a mixed blessing.... they can warn you of intruders.... a few small dogs in the bed with you, no one is going to 'sneak up' on you....

On the other hand, barking could attract zombies... probably not as much as crowing roosters, though. Do have a 'plan' for the loud roosters, if noise became an issue... slaughter them all, as long as I had young ones in the pipeline...


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

I like the deer picts--self feeding lol...my GSD is very well trained and quiet unless I tell her otherwise to bark..she is a GREAT dog--I also have a corgi who is very good with the livestock--not a barker unless the ***** try and come in the yard at night..really want another GSD though--just not the puppy and growing stage. She is big, intimidating, loving, and smart--and could be pretty lethal or at least "hold" someone if necessary. It took her awhile to learn that my chickens were not "enemies"--not a chaser or eating them--just if they came near her she would grab them and 1 chomp and they were history--no shaking, or ripping apart--just 1 bite and left to lay and dead. She has turned out amazing--


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## PrincessFerf (Apr 25, 2008)

We have two coonhounds... I just LOVE hounds! We don't hunt with them, they are pets. (granted they do get out some) People underestimate how great hounds are with kids.

As for rodent hunting, though the prize goes to my Shih Tzu/Bichon mix. Those two breeds were only meant for sitting around looking cute, but Casey loves nothing more than finding the "mousies". He works with me in the garden and keeps the rodents down. LOVE that little guy.


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## Marthas_minis (Jan 28, 2014)

My German Shepherds behave the same as CountryTime's. They very rarely bark at inappropriate times but they do "talk". Kind of low vocal intonations. I didn't train them with that intent, it's just how the training translated.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Ernie said:


> I've never had a good hunting dog.
> 
> That's a pretty big pack though. What do you think the minimum number of them is in order to run down game?


we had hunting dogs for deer growing up... they never caught one, ever (unless it was wounded...) grandpa and a lot of relatives still have hog dogs, and it only takes one, two preferably to catch and bay them...


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Ernie said:


> We've got catamount here but they're pretty thin on the ground and I don't have any inclination towards eating them.
> 
> What I'd like is to have dogs that could run deer down for you. Or even just find them in the brush and bring them back towards you.


Generally dogs just run them out of the county. The hunters that use dogs have a knowledge of deer crossings, escape routes and use vehicles and 2 way radios to head them off. While living on the farm we had old, slow cow dogs that would trail wounded deer. Made recovery easier. Now with all the deveopements that dog wouldn't last an hour. Someone would blast it. Back in the day when it was just farmers, most everyone did this and everyone new each others dogs. It's also been my experience, deer that have been run hard are fit only for dog food. Best tasting venison comes from a sudden death on a calm animal.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Roosters need to stand tall and stretch their necks to crow. So, at night you have them in a house where they can't stand all the up. This does not work with all roosters, as I can attest to.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

We have a German Shepard , but more pet than working , she is always at my wifes side the breed instills fear in some and that may make us just a little farther down the list.

I to think it is a SHTF of slow motion and attrition

first they need to segregate by class and order keeping everyone in their place 
grow goverment to where it is unsustainable , but demand it be supported be cause they make it the only solution to any problem you might have even though goverment causes more problems than it solves in the day to day 

use the legal system to cause good people stand and watch people die for fear that they will be punished for not following the rules 

heard this story yesterday , a long time DC parks employee was walking shopping and had a heart attack across the street form a fire station , well here is the story http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...b44662-88fe-11e3-a5bd-844629433ba3_story.html
they have rules against self dispatch , basicaly the firemen can't dispatch themselves , they se leaving the station as dispatch and feel they are bound by the rules so some one needed to call 911 but they dispatched to a wrong address , finally a cop who arrived flagged down a ambulance , but why couldn't the cop have called in for assistance and started the ambulance rolling. any way that's a bit off topic but , but my point is this is the one of the ways that the system and powers that be bind them selves in rules that tie their hands from helping then rant about how the people deserve more but all they need is a bigger budget and they can fix the problem 

any way back to it will be attrition slowly wearing everyone down , if they can't break you sense of what is write and wrong they will break your will to keep fighting for what is right , your strong convictions will be of little good if your endlessly drained of your energy in a mess of litigation and rules and regulators. if they can't break your morals they work hard to break your moral.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

oh and I think I have the answer to roaming packs , trap early and trap often , treat them like you would coyotes , foot holds even if you were to have one of your dogs get out and find one they have a sore foot 

if necessary even baited 330s or 220s , we know how dangerous they can be when misused around dogs , well they work when you want them to be dangerous also.


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## SilverFlame819 (Aug 24, 2010)

If you're concerned about chaining your beloved dogs outside because you don't want them shot, couldn't you catch some of the strays and chain THEM up outside? Sounds kind of terrible, but they'd be happy with you keeping them fed, and if someone shot them, you wouldn't be as heartbroken as if they shot your dear ole Daisy Mae.

I haven't thought about muzzling my dogs to stop them from eating poison, as they're always with me.

On the subject of what to feed - dogs are not carnivores, they're omnivores. Feed them whatever you're feeding yourself (minus the things that will kill them, like grapes). 

My dogs will not be going anywhere, and the person who looks at my dogs like they'd be good with mashed potatoes and gravy will quickly realize their mistake.

I own herding-bred Border Collies. They are completely silent except for a playful yip once in a while when playing and REALLY excited, or sighting strangers approaching (and even then, mostly silent, unless the stranger is acting strangely, and they give warning barks). 

In a SHTF scenario, myself and my dogs are my top priorities.


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## J&J NC (Mar 16, 2014)

We had some good old boys show up one day in their radio direction-finding equipped pickup trucks. As we were new to the area, they tried to play the intimidation game, claiming that our newly-purchased land was, by time honored inheritance and local custom, their family hunting grounds, to run their hounds as they saw fit. 

They ended up leaving, and haven't come back, but of all the potential threats to our place if things went crazy, I'd put those with a score to settle on top of the list. 

We now have good fences and working dogs of our own, but I've been fascinated ever since by the subject of defense against dog packs. Thanks to everyone for all of the useful information here.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

DOG, the other white meat!


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## NancyWVa (Mar 7, 2014)

Someone talked about the great depression, here in Baltimore food was hard to get, meat was a rare thing. But Meat would show up on the door steps every other morning and no one knew who was supplying the neighbors with meat. 

At my grandfathers funeral a very old man from the neighborhood came to pay his respects. He told us that he was the person that brought meat to the neighbors. Every night he would walk the streets and ride the street car to the "highway" and gather road kill, dogs, cats, squirrels, possum, raccoon and deer. He would clean the meat and package it in butcher paper tied with clean reused butchers string so people would not know what kind of meat it was.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

NancyWVa said:


> Someone talked about the great depression, here in Baltimore food was hard to get, meat was a rare thing. But Meat would show up on the door steps every other morning and no one knew who was supplying the neighbors with meat.
> 
> At my grandfathers funeral a very old man from the neighborhood came to pay his respects. He told us that he was the person that brought meat to the neighbors. Every night he would walk the streets and ride the street car to the "highway" and gather road kill, dogs, cats, squirrels, possum, raccoon and deer. He would clean the meat and package it in butcher paper tied with clean reused butchers string so people would not know what kind of meat it was.


Ah, meals from under wheels! And pretenderized, gotta love it.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

bowdonkey said:


> Ah, meals from under wheels! And pretenderized, gotta love it.


Everyone jokes about eating roadkill, but I've done it and it's not very good.

Usually the meat is very tainted from the shock of impact and all the blood vessels bursting. Even if it's very fresh. 

There's probably specific cuts of meat which would serve and that you could harvest from roadkill, but in general I dislike it. 

Also, here in Texas, I face the same penalty picking up a roadkill deer as I would shooting one out of season ... so I'd rather just shoot one out of season and fill my freezer that way.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Ernie said:


> Everyone jokes about eating roadkill, but I've done it and it's not very good.
> 
> Usually the meat is very tainted from the shock of impact and all the blood vessels bursting. Even if it's very fresh.
> 
> ...


Unless it's my vehicle that was totaled killing it, I won't bother with it either. I do smack a grouse or two every year, maybe half the time they are not one big blood clot! Heck, I just noticed you commented on a post I made. I thought you had me on Ignore all this time!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Why would I ignore you? You're so totally not the biggest moron on this forum.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Ernie said:


> Why would I ignore you? You're so totally not the biggest moron on this forum.


You're kidding. Somehow I feel like a failure now? :shrug: I'll settle for second biggest! Though I'm so not liking it.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

7thswan said:


> I'm for sure the alpha here, as I'm a Rottweiler person, I have to be. But I do wounder how folks will have approach having house dogs then expect them to be guardians overnight. Having considered that we would have to put up our cows in the barn at night, maybe have an armed person awake all night. This is where people that want to come here because-"I'm comeing to your house if things go south" might come in handy.



I had thought about it a lot lately, as mine were getting too old to make a run for it or fight with their old man. Their advanced age would be more of a liability than an asset.
I no longer have to worry about that anymore, but it makes the decision of getting another one(s) a little trickier.



mpillow said:


> A lab/rottie cross would make a "beefy" dog....the lab needs the rottie "enemy" mindset and the rottie needs the labs coat and obedient nature.



If you ever get the chance to have one, do it. You may never find a better dog. Of all the ones I've had, I think I'd put her at #1.......for strength, intelligence, heart, obedience, protection, etc.
She never had to lay her life down to protect us, but I knew she would.
In the few cases that came up, the intruder didn't waste time retreating.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

3 of my pups, they know what time it is.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

My girl, sitting while I harvest chamomile. She would never ever leave my side,even in the hot sun. The males, they will go lay in the shade and watch over me.She is smileing, she is so proud.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

farmrbrown said:


> I had thought about it a lot lately, as mine were getting too old to make a run for it or fight with their old man. Their advanced age would be more of a liability than an asset.
> I no longer have to worry about that anymore, but it makes the decision of getting another one(s) a little trickier.
> 
> 
> ...


 

In the first part of my life I had 
Labs. Great dogs, they chew tho and like to wander. Rotties own me now. There are so many good Rotties out there that need a Good Home. They are so smart they know that you are saveing them. Very Loyal. I'd have many more than I do -if I could figure out the Insurance problem. Dh won't go without House insurance, but if I was alone, I have a Rottie(S) and go without house insurance.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Yeah, I like'em too.
My girl was mixed with a yellow Lab, which is why she always had blonde roots, LOL.
In a SHTF situation, a big hound, a terrier, hunting dog, all would be good choices.
It's hard to find an all purpose dog for all contingencies, just the same with people, but if I ever had a dog that would always have my back and do anything I asked with the easiest of training, she was the one.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

farmrbrown said:


> Yeah, I like'em too.
> My girl was mixed with a yellow Lab, which is why she always had blonde roots, LOL.
> In a SHTF situation, a big hound, a terrier, hunting dog, all would be good choices.
> It's hard to find an all purpose dog for all contingencies, just the same with people, but if I ever had a dog that would always have my back and do anything I asked with the easiest of training, she was the one.


Ok I took a picture of a picture. My Labs when I lived off grid. I set up my camera on a tri pod and called them to me. Don't make fun of my hair, I dyeded it brown and it is green in this pic. Thank goodness for B&W. I lived on 55 acres with a lake,down the hill, hard to see. I could tell stories about how my Lab. Ralph saved me from 2 guys looking in my window at night, my dubble bubble was waiting at the door before I let him out......


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## SilverFlame819 (Aug 24, 2010)

Our Rottie/Lab Sequoia was one of the best dogs ever. My mom has always said that if she got another mutt, that's the mix she'd go for. What a good girl. Never met a person she didn't like, but she'd sure put up a good front when someone pulled into the driveway or knocked on the door... Sounded like Cujo coming to get you! (Until she saw the person, then she'd do the happy dance and lick them all over).  Smart, level-headed, no aggression, gentle with kids, happy disposition, and very fun. She loved to have a good time, and even moreso if it made us laugh. 

Here she is at around 2 years old. Mom was an American Rottie, dad was a yellow Lab.


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## Elizabeth (Jun 4, 2002)

I would never muzzle my dogs. If I was worried about them getting poisoned I would make sure that they stayed under my control at all times to prevent that from happening.

Right now, all of our dogs are house dogs, but if we needed to turn them into watchdogs in a SHTF scenario, I would have to bite the bullet and put them out in our fenced yard. That would only work in warmish weather though, as they are not cold hardy. Not sure how we would deal with winter. Maybe do what someone else suggested and pick up a stray dog of a more Northern breed- mine are Rhodesian Ridgebacks. We also have a Black Lab who is a fantastic watch dog, but she is starting to slow down due to her age  She loves being outside, though, even on the coldest days.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

So this is my boy Jack...not much of a hunter but his bark will make your ears ring! "Bad Guys" get him all worked up...he eats only 2 cups of dog chow a day...


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Here's our old girl watching "her" chickens.


http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26063&stc=1&d=1396214092


And our 2 'pups' on my queen size bed.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26064&stc=1&d=1396214092.


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

Malachi, our Akita. Best dog I've ever had the privilege to know.




Loyal and fearless, exceptional hunter, would quietly let you onto the property but, if you had any inclination to leave without his approval, you had better think again. If there was a SHTF scenario, I would like to have two or three of these on my property along with an English Shepard, maybe two.

Fen, the ES we have now is like our right-hand guy - smart and capable. The only thing I would change about him is, if I could, bestow a bit more of a herding instinct on him. He can dispatch varmints (although not with ease Malachi was able to), babysit livestock, and probably balance my checkbook if I bothered to teach him. So smart he can also monitor the skies for drones...


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

By the way, I love all of the dog pictures. All are beautiful! That pack of hounds, though..._swoon
_I LOVE me some hound dogs. Always have. Here's our Pitt-Beagle, Homer.



Rescued him from death row in an Ohio pound. The rescue organization said he was a beagle. When he showed up, I thought, "He is either crossed with a Pitt or he has spent his entire time in jail working out in the gym." He's a total marshmallow unless he perceives something is being threatened - doesn't matter who or what, he will protect it. He always insists on being the mommy goat when we have to bring kids into the house for care.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Our old girl, the one in the pictures with the chickens, has to see all our babies when they come. Chick, rabbit, goat... Doesn't matter what species, she HAS to see them. You should have heard her cry when momma goat wouldn't let her near the kids. I had to pull momma out so she could check them over so she would shut up.


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## SilverFlame819 (Aug 24, 2010)

Bloog, I SOOOOOO would have named that dog Smeagle! Smeagle the Peagle!  

HAHAHA!


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

Oh, SilverFlame...I could just hear my hubby saying it in the voice of Gollum! Which he knows makes me nutso. Gollum and Yoda...*shiver*.

Homer was named after the Greek poet. He's a very cerebral and contemplative dog.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Every dog needs his boy...


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

i like the looks of the akita...i have only ever seen one n real life..i was impressed on its size..he was huge.i always thought i would like to own one.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

After both of mine passed in the last 3 months, I thought I would be without a dog for a good long while, I just didn't have the heart to take it any more.

Monday, on the way to work, I passed a little one that had just been dumped at the end of our road. I could tell, they all have the same look.:Bawling:

I didn't approach her, I pulled over and let her make the decision.
She's now on her way to the vet on friday for a checkup and shots........:ashamed:

I've seen lots of dogs *chase* a squirrel, never seen one actually *catch one*. She's gonna be a keeper, I think.
looks to be a mix of a red bone Walker hound and a pit bull (?)


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

You old softy, FB. :grin:


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

farmrbrown said:


> After both of mine passed in the last 3 months, I thought I would be without a dog for a good long while, I just didn't have the heart to take it any more.
> 
> Monday, on the way to work, I passed a little one that had just been dumped at the end of our road. I could tell, they all have the same look.:Bawling:
> 
> ...


For You.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Have any of you seen the movie _Hachi_? Love and devotion....get a box of tissues!
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhEHr7B1QiU[/ame]


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