# What's Behind The Ammo Shortage In The US?



## HDRider

Manufacturers are working non-stop to satisfy the increased demand for ammo. The shortage can be accredited to a number of factors. For starters, there have been over eight million new gun owners within the past year. In addition, there have been one million-plus new hunters that have entered the market. 

Typical consumer behavior is buying in bulk when things get scarce which is why if you see three boxes on the shelf now, you would just buy all three when normally you would have bought just one. More importantly, these new shooters and new hunters are actively participating. 

The combination of new gun owners and existing gun owners has made products extremely scarce. Other factors for the ammunition shortage include trying to disperse ammunition to everyone including independent dealers, retailers because if they have nothing to sell they won't be in business. This includes allocating to the military and international deals. Suppliers are actively making sure they keep the same quality standard they have had as a brand while trying to massively increase infrastructure, manpower, and running 24 hours.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

this was the same with 22lr years back.
my friend was a good example he got an old 10/22 when he took the farm over form his dad he probably 100 rounds that came with the rifle and the farm he started to run low from shooting racoons right at the height of the 22 shortage , none on the shelf next thing you know he is looking for a brick which is a life time supply for him and the farm.

as soon as you can't get it you need a multi year supply we are all there 

the good news more ammo in private hands than probably ever before 

bad news they will probably have to keep making 24-7 for a few more years to see shelves fill up again.

this applies to so many products in the US , my wife works for a major door manufacturer in 2020 they made 30% more doors than they have ever made in a single year and they are further behind than they have ever been before people waiting 3-6 months for a custom order door.


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## Danaus29

I haven't seen .22 lr on the shelves in big box stores in 10 years. I don't expect that to change any time soon. My Ruger 10/22 does not like the cheap ammo endorsed by Troy Lady (?, the man has poor penmanship) so I am on the hunt for Stingers, again. Not out, just restocking.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Troy Landry from swamp people boxes of ammo , he was into mini mags then they put his name on the bulk stuff also 


I had a 10/22 that was very sensitive to ammunition an early 2000s production it only liked stingers , but I was able to get it to shoot anything with some work.

pull your bolt out , look at the top of the receiver was the firing pin dragging on the inside of the receiver ?

I stoned the rough edge on the top of the firing pin and polished the bolt that made it much better 

the other thing I did was switch to dry lube , I was probably running too much lube and it would collect the powder fowling and gum up and then I would start having problems it depended a little on the ammo but around 75 rounds at first and after the fixing of the roughness on the firing pin about 150

after going to dry lube I am over 300 rounds without an issue. 

Hornady one shot cleaner and dry lube.

on earlier 10/22s the inside of the receiver was not coated around 1999 they started coating the inside and out black that coating and what seems to be a run of rough firing pins causes a bunch of issues. I should have probably sent it in in 2001 but I was able to find stingers and that just worked. years later when I started doing more target shooting and stingers were not available I made the fix.


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## Feller

More and more, I notice certain things getting scarce or really jumping up in price. Around here, canning lids, rimfire ammo, reloading components, even the Walmart brand Grape Nuts are all just gone. I don’t know how I’ll carry on without my morning wheat and barley gravel...

In the last few years I’ve bought 22LR as low as 4 cents a round. Not CCI, but Browning and Remington, for teaching my kids to shoot. These days it’s 18 or 20 cents apiece.

I reload for everything else I shoot, and luckily have enough components for my needs. My brother has bought powder at $40 a pound, and was glad to find it. It’s the end times, I tell ya.

Nice forums, by the way. I’m new here, howdy y’all.


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## GTX63

Howdy Feller and welcome to HT.
My mother always kept a box of Grape Nuts in the cupboard. A tandem axle trailer of that stuff would have made for a great driveway. It might also be a great substitute for rock salt in your 12 gauge.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I scored a brick of 22lr today store had gotten some , right time right place and a 1 brick limit this can replace my oldest brick and my son will be very happy to be out shooting again.

I just hate to shoot what I can't replace , replace it then shoot.


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## kinderfeld

The price for 22lr that is in stock has gotten ridiculous. Be awhile before I buy any.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

40 dollars for the brick , best price I have seen in months

at the gun show today people want 80 a brick which is ridiculous


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## Danaus29

GCP, it might be a firing pin. Hubby replaced it after I wore out the one in my older 10/.22. The newer one is a heavier pin which might have some rough edges. I'll have to look at it closely tomorrow. It's a newer all-weather model and it is not quite as nice as the older one.


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## Hiro

I haven't decided whether to tell the kid's now or just the day I can get them back to the range:


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

remember to rotate out your oldest


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## Rodeo's Bud

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> remember to rotate out your oldest


Poor oldest kid...


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Rodeo's Bud said:


> Poor oldest kid...


that happens inevitably they move off to school or work 

but for now oldest ammo


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## HDRider

The Real Reasons You Can’t Buy Ammo


What happened to all the ammo? Well, the government isn’t hoarding it and manufacturers aren’t holding out, either. Here are the 7 real reason why you can’t get the ammo you need




www.fieldandstream.com





*1. Everyone was caught off guard.
2. COVID boosted demand and cut the workforce.
3. You want the wrong cartridges at the wrong time.
4. Loading-dock deals.
5. Rationing.
6. Local gun shops are low priority.
7. You don’t have enough money.*


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## GTX63

If you have owned multiple firearms for the past 10 years, you should have a decent supply of ammunition, thanks to several public figures that have been described as the "
best gun salesmen ever."
For the newbies and the first time liberal gun owners, welcome to what you voted for.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

what ever you thought was enough when there were boxes of ammo on the shelf , it doesn't seem like as much when you haven't seen a box on the shelf in 6 months.


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## Hiro

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> what ever you thought was enough when there were boxes of ammo on the shelf , it doesn't seem like as much when you haven't seen a box on the shelf in 6 months.


I am just making excuses. But, in my case I had plenty of ammunition for me. The wife shot some recreationally 8 or 9 years ago, but really wasn't interested. The kids weren't interested and I never really understood why. I have thought about that since they have become absolutely enthralled with all of the shooting sports recently. It was because, there were mostly negative connotations with the grumpy, old man pulling out a firearm. If I went to the range, they didn't really take notice. When I had to dispatch this critter/varmint or that, they noticed. It was always sad or a danger factor with me using a firearm.

Anyway, once the kids were introduced to shooting some clay thingy and my wife witnessed enough lawlessness, things changed. The good news, for us, I had a significant stockpile and it seems as though it may not be a persistent shortage/price gouging. It is kind of poetic justice, as the prior ammo shortage, I just felt badly for those that didn't have a stockpile. It appears that I am one of those folks now.


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## GTX63

I don't shoot competitively and practice frequently. But what I did, long ago, was load up on 22. A whole lot of 22.
I have a Browning 1911 in 22, a Colt AR15 in 22 and several 10/22s that I use when I need to refresh muscle memory. It is much cheaper per round.


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## todd_xxxx

I used to shoot a few hundred rounds a week. Not anymore...


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## goodatit

HDRider said:


> Manufacturers are working non-stop to satisfy the increased demand for ammo. The shortage can be accredited to a number of factors. For starters, there have been over eight million new gun owners within the past year. In addition, there have been one million-plus new hunters that have entered the market.
> 
> Typical consumer behavior is buying in bulk when things get scarce which is why if you see three boxes on the shelf now, you would just buy all three when normally you would have bought just one. More importantly, these new shooters and new hunters are actively participating.
> 
> The combination of new gun owners and existing gun owners has made products extremely scarce. Other factors for the ammunition shortage include trying to disperse ammunition to everyone including independent dealers, retailers because if they have nothing to sell they won't be in business. This includes allocating to the military and international deals. Suppliers are actively making sure they keep the same quality standard they have had as a brand while trying to massively increase infrastructure, manpower, and running 24 hours.


when manufacturers get the price per round where they want it there will be plenty of ammo. people close to ammo manufacturers will get ammo first. artificial shortage.


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## GunMonkeyIntl

goodatit said:


> when manufacturers get the price per round where they want it there will be plenty of ammo. people close to ammo manufacturers will get ammo first. artificial shortage.


That’s patently hilarious.

The single biggest increase in new gun owners in history, years of violent mass-protest, a cold bug that was sold as the new plague, and a resulting supply chain that has been broken for the last 18 months has nothing to do with it. You’re probably right. It’s just some ammo makers colluding to raise prices all at once and get rich.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

there is a store here that has about all the ammo you could need 
their prices keep ammo on the shelf but if you want to pay 35 dollars for a 20 round box 30-30 power points they probably have some for you.

sent an Amish guy over there who was looking for 30-30 at farm and fleet , he understood when I said they will likely have it but their price is the reason they have it. you got to need it before you're will pay those prices.

keeps you from stocking up.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

seeing xm193 at 12.99 to 14.99 for 20 rounds 

or 200 rounds xm193 for 159.99

there is a hardware store that has all the 9mm fmj you need at 19.99 a box of 50 , which isn't bad for the times


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## GTX63

During one of the ammo scares around 2014 or so, when 22lr was nearly nonexistent and priced 3 times the normal rate, I was in Walmart standing in line to ask about some 45acp. There was one guy in front of me filling out a form for a fishing license, a guy about 20' away reading a sporting magazine and another guy past him browsing fishing gear. 
The phone rings and the clerk picks it up and tells the caller, no, he doesn't have any 22lr but so and so down on highway xx just got bricks of 555 count in for about $25.
I pull out my phone and pretend to text while slowly backing away and trying to non chalantly leave the area.

I got in my car and burned down the road as quickly as possible on my way to the other store.
I walked in, saw those beautiful boxes sitting on the shelf behind the counter and politely asked for four boxes please.
Before I even put my debit card back in my wallet, 3 of the 4 guys from walmart had walked into the store. Yes, that seemed a little awkward.
It reminded me of "Its A Mad Mad Mad Mad World".
Who says guys don't listen the first time?


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## Pony

We are able to get most ammo here, and yeah, if you want it you're going to have to pay for it. But what's really gone through the roof is the price of primers. Holy moley!

Crazy times.


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## GunMonkeyIntl

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> there is a store here that has about all the ammo you could need
> their prices keep ammo on the shelf but if you want to pay 35 dollars for a 20 round box 30-30 power points they probably have some for you.
> 
> sent an Amish guy over there who was looking for 30-30 at farm and fleet , he understood when I said they will likely have it but their price is the reason they have it. you got to need it before you're will pay those prices.
> 
> keeps you from stocking up.





Pony said:


> We are able to get most ammo here, and yeah, if you want it you're going to have to pay for it. But what's really gone through the roof is the price of primers. Holy moley!
> 
> Crazy times.


As part of the intel part of my job, “keeping up with the competitive landscape”, I have the current distributor, dealer, LE and buy-group price lists from Vista, Winchester, Hornady, Remington, Norma, Magtech and Aquila. There have been notable price increases since this time last year. They’re on the order of 30-40%, and roughly in line with the increase in commodity-copper- maybe a little light if anything.

The price gouging that the consumer sees is happening at retail, not at the manufacturer.

ETA: Pony, the primers are a different situation. The two domestic manufacturers (Vista (now including Remington), and Winchester ) have both decided to quit selling OEM, and all but quit selling in consumer packaging. Most of what you’re seeing at as much as $200/k are either opportunistically sourced imports (Ginex etc.) or “new old stock” that’s been sitting in personal/dealer hordes.


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## Pony

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> As part of the intel part of my job, “keeping up with the competitive landscape”, I have the current distributor, dealer, LE and buy-group price lists from Vista, Winchester, Hornady, Remington, Norma, Magtech and Aquila. There have been notable price increases since this time last year. They’re on the order of 30-40%, and roughly in line with the increase in commodity-copper- maybe a little light if anything.
> 
> The price gouging that the consumer sees is happening at retail, not at the manufacturer.
> 
> ETA: Pony, the primers are a different situation. The two domestic manufacturers (Vista (now including Remington), and Winchester ) have both decided to quit selling OEM, and all but quit selling in consumer packaging. Most of what you’re seeing at as much as $200/k are either opportunistically sourced imports (Ginex etc.) or “new old stock” that’s been sitting in personal/dealer hordes.


Thanks for sharing the intel.

We are seeing NOS at the little local places.


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## unioncreek

I live 35 miles from the CCI plant in Lewiston ID. They have had to halt production of primers because they can't get a steady supply of components. Their 22 plant puts out over a million rounds a day and their always behind.


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## 67drake

As I posted in another thread, 6-9 months ago I couldn’t find magnums for .357 or .44, even online, for any price. At least now they’re available, just going to pay the price for them.


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## HDRider

unioncreek said:


> I live 35 miles from the CCI plant in Lewiston ID. They have had to halt production of primers because they can't get a steady supply of components. Their 22 plant puts out over a million rounds a day and their always behind.


Has the situation improved?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

more ammo on shelves , than before thanks giving 

man finding pheasant loads in October was rough 

have bought a few more boxes since 

223 and 308 ball are back on shelf 

223 hunting ammo is more than it was 

seeing most pistol ammo in at least one brand or another at the actual gun store 

primers still not good 

powder when I called one of the best places in WI to find powder a few weeks ago because I was going to be in the area he could tell me off the top of his head the 4 powders he did have , I would venture they in normal times stocked 100+ powders and could order you nearly anything.

so better but with a lot of room for improvement to get back to pre March 2020 stocking


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## 67drake

I’d say it’s better, but not great. I was at a local gun show last week. I bought some stocking stuffers for the wife. A couple boxes of.380, I paid a little over $.50 a round, last year it was none for sale at the show, unless you wanted to pay $1 or more per round from some guy who had been dragging them from show to show for the last 10 years.


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## 67drake

Just got back from the local gun shop, a son is in town visiting for Christmas, and brought his 9mm with, low on ammo, and he wants to go shooting today. Surprisingly the local gun shop was open today. They had 9mm in stock. Not cheap, but better than empty shelves. $38 for 50 rounds. 6 months ago you’d be lucky to find any locally.


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## Big_John

Last year, about September, I started looking for .270 Win ammo. I had 5 boxes, or 100 rounds but I felt really low. I thought I better grab 5-10 boxes.... and it started. Every time I would walk into a store that sold ammo, I would look and inquire. Month after month, I could find nothing.

This past summer my son traveled up to Montana, visited a big outdoors store. That evening he called to tell me that he was able to get ammo on 4 of his guns that had been very, very scarce. I asked about 270... and he said he purchased 3 boxes and they probably had another 20 boxes on the shelf. I asked him to run back down there the next morning.... and they were completely out.

More months and more store visits and nothing..... Couple of times I looked online and it was available, but I just refused to pay $2 or more a round.... or $40 a box for 270.

Then bingo... I walk into a Cabelas and they have 5 boxes of 130gr hunting rounds for $22 a box.... I cleaned them out.

Now... will someone tell me why such a HUGE shortage of 270 Win. ???????

If we were talking 556 or 762 or 308 or 9mm or 45.... etc... I would understand.



.......


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Big_John said:


> Then bingo... I walk into a Cabelas and they have 5 boxes of 130gr hunting rounds for $22 a box.... I cleaned them out.
> 
> Now... will someone tell me why such a HUGE shortage of 270 Win. ???????
> 
> If we were talking 556 or 762 or 308 or 9mm or 45.... etc... I would understand.
> 
> 
> 
> .......


they only make 270 seasonally for hunting typically people buy 1-2 boxes but with nothing else around anything around got bought.

they had apparently just finished making 30-06 and 243 in March 2020 it was nearly the only ammo on the shelf half the spring and summer of 2020 and then you couldn't even find that.

sure all the self defence and pistol ammo went first but when the only thing too buy is 30-06 and 243 anyone with either eventually says hey maybe I could use 2 boxes before they have none 

the common stuff , 9 , 45. 223 . 308 is being mad constantly , they change over other lines and do runs , but if they need to make all the ammo they can they are not going to diversify as much as normal


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## unioncreek

HDRider said:


> Has the situation improved?


We still don't have much reloading or ammo on the shelves. There have been 5 small ammo companies start up. I understand its cheaper for them to produce ammo that large companies.


Bob


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## Pony

We've noticed that ammo is more available, but primers? Good luck. If you do find them, the price is outrageous.


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## GunMonkeyIntl

unioncreek said:


> We still don't have much reloading or ammo on the shelves. There have been 5 small ammo companies start up. I understand its cheaper for them to produce ammo that large companies.
> 
> 
> Bob


It’s not cheaper for the little guys. To be vertically integrated, making one’s own cases and projectiles, one has to be a decent sized company to begin with. Only a few of the very largest make their own primers, which is one of the chief bottlenecks right now. No body makes their own propellant.

The key to making ammo cheaply, especially during a supply crunch like this, is vertical integration. The small startups are having to at least buy primers, and cases and/projectiles, and cover competitive margins to get them.


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## unioncreek

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> It’s not cheaper for the little guys. To be vertically integrated, making one’s own cases and projectiles, one has to be a decent sized company to begin with. Only a few of the very largest make their own primers, which is one of the chief bottlenecks right now. No body makes their own propellant.
> 
> The key to making ammo cheaply, especially during a supply crunch like this, is vertical integration. The small startups are having to at least buy primers, and cases and/projectiles, and cover competitive margins to get them.


They are buying military surplus cases and remanning ammo. I got this info I have from a salesman at ATK (They own CCI, Speer and a lot of other ammo companies) he ought to know what's going on.

Bob


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## GunMonkeyIntl

unioncreek said:


> They are buying military surplus cases and remanning ammo. I got this info I have from a salesman at ATK (They own CCI, Speer and a lot of other ammo companies) he ought to know what's going on.
> 
> Bob


Who is “they”?

ATK doesn’t exist anymore. The old Orbital ATK broke up 5 or 10 years ago. The small arms ammunition contingent became Vista, which owns Federal, Speer, CCI, Remington and Hevi-Shot. The rest of it folded into Northrop Grumman.


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## Pony

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Who is “they”?
> 
> ATK doesn’t exist anymore. The old Orbital ATK broke up 5 or 10 years ago. The small arms ammunition contingent became Vista, which owns Federal, Speer, CCI, Remington and Hevi-Shot. The rest of it folded into *Northrop Grumman*.


I applied for a job there many many years ago. The plant was, IIRC, in Schaumburg, IL. 

Didn't know they were into ammo et al.


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