# bears and honey



## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

yest when i was mowing by the hives i could smell the honey--it got me thinking about bears smelling the honey. i have seen pictures of hives that bears have gotten into and am wondering if putting ratchet straps around the hives would help so if a bear got at the hives they might not be destroyed? i just had to ask.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Bears will turn the wood into toothpicks while going for the larvae. The nylon straps might make a good piece of floss for their teeth after they are done.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

thats what i was kinda thinking but like i said i just had to ask. i have heard of people putting up electric around the hives but i have seen bear go thru electric fences alot. so what else do you guys suggest?


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Here the fish and game commission will help out with loaning cattle panels and a good hot electric fence, so the bear doesn't end up getting trapped and killed for damages. I know a guy who finally had good luck by putting a hot wire out far enough to prevent the bear long jumping over the whole setup. That is after he defeated the electric on the top and sides of the panels. You might see if your muskrat marshal is of any help.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Do you have bears in the area? If not stop worrying. If you do just put up a electric woven wire fence with one of the strongest chargers money can buy some thing that will cut down a small tree that happens to touch it.
Or build a deck 8 feet or more in the air with a ladder you can remove where you keep your hives.

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

my son had a bear that would cross the road less then a half mile on eather side of him ,, and we had one hive the first year and two the next year ,,, and the bear never came to visit ... maybe that was just dumb luck ,,


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

yep we have bears here--hopefully the dogs will keep them away??? i dont know if the fencers that do that anymore are legal around here. maybe if a fencer is only run a short distance it will hold more of a charge--will have to do more research. i grew up around horses and have seen bears go thru the fence like it didnt even faze them. but then again i have seen wild life documentaries where the bears are getting stung by bees and it didnt stop them from getting the honey. just something i was wondering about.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

mare said:


> yep we have bears here--hopefully the dogs will keep them away??? i dont know if the fencers that do that anymore are legal around here. maybe if a fencer is only run a short distance it will hold more of a charge--will have to do more research. i grew up around horses and have seen bears go thru the fence like it didnt even faze them. but then again i have seen wild life documentaries where the bears are getting stung by bees and it didnt stop them from getting the honey. just something i was wondering about.


You may want to lay some old wire fence flat on the ground under the electric wire and run a ground to that. Then you stand a better chance of zapping him with his dry dusty feet standing on that wire. 

They eat the honey as a bonus, they are really after the larvae and bees.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

Ed Norman said:


> You may want to lay some old wire fence flat on the ground under the electric wire and run a ground to that. Then you stand a better chance of zapping him with his dry dusty feet standing on that wire.
> 
> They eat the honey as a bonus, they are really after the larvae and bees.


i am having a hard time understanding--if the wire is on the ground how does it not get shorted out?


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

mare said:


> i am having a hard time understanding--if the wire is on the ground how does it not get shorted out?


You drive a ground rod into the earth and hook your negative wire to it. But if the ground is very dry, you may not get enough of a complete circuit to shock the bear well enough to bother him. So lay down some woven fencing on the ground and also hook your ground terminal to that wire. It isn't hooked to your hot wire. He stands on the grounded fencing and touches the raw bacon you draped over the hot wire, and he gets a very nice shock.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

Ed Norman said:


> You drive a ground rod into the earth and hook your negative wire to it. But if the ground is very dry, you may not get enough of a complete circuit to shock the bear well enough to bother him. So lay down some woven fencing on the ground and also hook your ground terminal to that wire. It isn't hooked to your hot wire. He stands on the grounded fencing and touches the raw bacon you draped over the hot wire, and he gets a very nice shock.


WHAT!!!!! now i gotta put raw bacon on the fence:yuck: haha remember ed i really dont WANT the bears around????

my ground is never very dry so this might work--are you really serious here????? just wanna make sure i am not getting my leg pulled cuz i have never heard of this before.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Yes it works. No I'm not kidding. No the bacon will not lure them in, but they will find it when the bees lure them in. I got better things to do than make up stuff to fool a beekeeper in MN. Right now I am fooling a banana grower in Malaysia, next is a flower pot maker in Needles, CA.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

Ed Norman said:


> Yes it works. No I'm not kidding. No the bacon will not lure them in, but they will find it when the bees lure them in. I got better things to do than make up stuff to fool a beekeeper in MN. Right now I am fooling a banana grower in Malaysia, next is a flower pot maker in Needles, CA.


hahahahahaha


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

Mare ,, like I said in my post put bacon or some other beef fat or what you have ,,on the wire ,, this way the bear try's to BITE the bacon off the wire ,, he get the full shock in the mouth , tongue ,, this he will remember and will walk away from the fence ,, ,, a bear will walk right through a elect fence if he thinks he will get into a hive ... So yes they are serious about bacon on the fence .. And yes you can use this fence were you are ,,, my son lives close to you and he has one for his hogs


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

sorry Tom--i dont see that post but thanks for the advice it means alot seeing as you guys are nearly my neighbors.


and Ed and Tom and Al thanks for the help


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## JRHILLS (Oct 27, 2010)

Ratcheting tie-down straps only make things worse when the bear comes around. He'll do much more damage bashing the hives to get inside. Bad idea.

Chicken wire or other additional wire on the ground is unnecessary unless the ground around your hives is EXTREMELY dry. Two four foot ground rods on opposite corners of the fence is MORE than enough grounding in almost any conditions.

Find a nearby beekeeper who is getting 5,000 volts showing on his fence tester. Copy that fence design. But don't invest in overkill - such as a fence controller built for 10 or more miles of fence. Unnecessary for your few hundred feet of wire.

Do not buy a solar fence controller with a six volt battery.


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

mare said:


> ... i have heard of people putting up electric around the hives but i have seen bear go thru electric fences alot. so what else do you guys suggest?


mare,

I hope some of my recommendations will be useful to you:
http://www.beebehavior.com/bee_yard_protection.php

Boris Romanov


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

no one sees all the posts ,and to miss read them , every one does ,, miss words ,, every one does ,, not under stand what is in the post ,, happens to us all .. 
this sat I will be going right past you ,, Bonnie wants to go up to see her sister in Lancaster , MN ,, , Bonnie wants to go ,, don't mean to sound that I'm upset , when I say that , cause I'm not ,, I don't care were we go or what we do .... just so we're together ..


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

wow!!! i was looking at the critter gitter earlier. that fence looks scarey but effective--i wonder what the liability to having one of those would be?

thanks JR and Boris.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

have a fun safe trip Tom


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## JRHILLS (Oct 27, 2010)

I bought a critter gitter from Betterbee after my first bear attack. Did not bother the bear one bit. DO NOT buy one. Complete waste of money. If you have a bear problem, you need to quit beekeeping or get an electric fence.

And please do not think that the overkill solution presented so proudly by another contributor to this forum is a sensible idea.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

i got that the critter gitter doesnt work and while i think the fencing solution would work i dont want to kill any one either . i am still looking but i do appreciated any help or ideas i can get.


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

mare said:


> wow!!! ... that fence looks scarey but effective--i wonder what the liability to having one of those would be?
> thanks JR and Boris.


Any factory-made and bear-proof (up to 16 000 Volts!) Chargers/Energizers/Controllers are VERY dangerous, especially when you or your neighbor accidentally (like the deer below) get tangled in the wires. Such an incident may be fatal.

The manufacturerâs recommendation: âParker-McCrory Range Master RM-1 (15,000 Volts , 12.5 joules ) ââ¦this charger should not be used at sites involving significant public exposure or safety issues.â

Boris Romanov


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## offGridNorthern (Jan 1, 2006)

Bears are a real problem in our area since the gov't cancelled the spring bear hunt. 

I used this site-- www.bearsmart.com/becoming-bear-smart/community/electric-fencing
in planning my electric fencing and I found it really good! Mine is solar powered as we are off-the-grid. You have to have a charger at least 1 joule -- otherwise the bear won't get enough of a zap.


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

offGridNorthern said:


> ... I found it really good! ...


Bear baiting is illegal in almost all states (in my too).

Just one example: âAlaska photographer charged with bear-baiting while shooting pictures for History Channel show. 
And Fish and Wildlife spokesman Bruce Woods said â that baiting bears does not require one to be hunting. He said it is illegal to bait brown bears in the refuge under any circumstances, and that doing so with black bears requires a permit.â

Boris Romanov


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Bear baiting is legal here. I topped a hump in the road on a 4 wheeler last fall and ran right into a 100 lb. pile of mostly red candy that had fallen off on the way to somebody's bear bait. 

And whenever I happen upon a bait barrel, I slowly look around up in the trees to see if somebody has a bow drawn at me.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

bear baiting is legal here too.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

thanks for the link offgrid.


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## offGridNorthern (Jan 1, 2006)

You are welcome, Mare. 
The other thing one of our beekeepers does in this area (there may be more but I only know of this one yard) is to keep a radio on, tuned to a station that is just talking. It isn't loud ...you can hear it when you come around the bee hives and probably tricks the bears in to thinking there are people nearby. He has this set up in conjunction with electric fencing in case they figure out that there really aren't people around. Brown/black bears remember where there was food for 2 years .... particularly if they were successful.
If I am home and see them in the yard (I can see my hives from the house) I also have bear bangers that work well and from a long distance.
So far, I have kept them away from the bee yard with my Parmak solar system.


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## Queen Bee (Apr 7, 2004)

Remember to cut all the trees away from your fence lines.. a bear will learn quickly, to climb a small tree and when it bends over and they drop into the fence line.. and they will tear up the hives and destroy the fence on the way out.... A friend in the mountains had this happen 3x.... You could see the climb marks on the trees-- She finally gave up on beekeeping...


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

Queen Bee said:


> Remember to cut all the trees away from your fence lines.. a bear will learn quickly, to climb a small tree and when it bends over and they drop into the fence line.. and they will tear up the hives and destroy the fence on the way out.... A friend in the mountains had this happen 3x.... You could see the climb marks on the trees-- She finally gave up on beekeeping...


i am glad you posted this cuz i wouldnt have thought of it. i was looking at putting the hives by the tree line.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I know of a fellow in Vermont who made a deck on the lean to part of his barn. He then installed a small door to get to it from a part of the hay mow.
If I were really worried about the bears I would just built a high rise deck with a ladder on a cable hinge system to get to it just like they used to to store food so many years ago.
Never give up my bees.

 Al


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## Edcrosbys (May 29, 2011)

Not sure how many hives you have but a bear can destroy them all in a few nights. They will smash the woodenware, eat the larvae, and destroy most of the usable drawn comb.

I've seen pics of bears climbing trees outside the fencing and riding them (as they bend) over the fence. I've seen pics of bears climbing trees then going across rope to drop into the apiary. 

How you protect your apiary is up to you, most fish and game folks have official suggestions. I only have a few hives and between the cost of all the wood, bees and comb I'd drop a bit of cash to prevent this from being an issue (for me).


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## staythirsty (Oct 15, 2011)

New here. Hi.

To an earlier post, rachet straps will not work. 

I have a question. I'm putting up an electric fence this weekend. I have very rocky ground. I am doing alternating ground wire return with 5 galv. wire strands 8" apart. My problem is I can't get the ground rod in greater than 2.5-3 ft because of rock. Is it ok to have a more shallow ground rod on this type of system? If I can't get it in more than 2 feet or so should I have 2?


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

staythirsty said:


> Is it ok to have a more shallow ground rod on this type of system? If I can't get it in more than 2 feet or so should I have 2?


I don't live in a bear area, but I do have solar-electric fences for horses. 

Everything I've read says that for dry, sandy or rocky soil, multiple ground rods will increase the effectiveness of the ground current.


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