# One step forward, two steps back, AAAUUUUGH!



## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

On the bright side, since I've started homeschooling DD 9, every worksheet is no longer an hour of agony, complete with sobbing and whining, her confidence has improved greatly, she has a much better attitude towards reading and learning (still not great, but better) and she is a happier child overall.

But it seems she has LOST ALL ABILITY TO RETAIN KNOWLEDGE. :sob: I am slowly going insane. On the one hand, she is probably starting puberty a little early, we have had a massively horrible, hectic year and she has gone from only child to big sis, so I'm sure that more then a little of this is testing. Adjusting to all the newness, etc.

But we spent ALL DAY doing simple math. I'm trying to get her to memorize all the addition and subtraction between one and ten. Because apparently her second grade teacher last year taught the children that they had to use their fingers - so she actually REGRESSED in her ability to do simple math and we are starting again from scratch.

At the end of last year, mostly because of her reading disability, they wanted to leave her back, so this year, we've reviewed all the second grade work and and we're doing third grade work on several subjects and I'm hoping to be totally caught up so she can start 4th grade work in fall.

But we are totally hitting a wall here. I'll give her a grade-appropriate worksheet, like 2 digit subtraction with regrouping, and one day she can do it fine, and the next, not only is every problem wrong, but when I try to break it into simple subtraction (only the numbers from 1-10) it's like there is ZERO comprehension.
And if I just ask her something incredibly simple (like 5 minus 3) I get a blank look and she starts counting on her fingers.

I've tried number charts, using other manipulatives, beads on a wire to help her visualize the concept of 10. Anything to help her get it and break the finger counting habit and I'm ready to cry.

The math is bad enough, and it could be all of the other factors I've mentioned, but this is starting to leak into everything else too. Reading, science, one day it's there, then she's had a lobotomy.

I'm thinking that maybe we're not structured enough. Maybe I should look into one of those complete curriculum packages. Or an online school. Something, because there is CLEARLY something that *I* am not doing right!

Any suggestions? Please????
Oh, and (not to start anything) but we are not Christian, so a religious curriculum wont work for us.
Seriously, more power to those who are, and I know there are a lot of Christian programs that teach the subject beautifully, but imagine if it was ... say ... a Muslim program and you had to pick all the Muslim parts out.

Thank you to any who have suffered through my LONG rant and have any suggestions!!


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## rean (Nov 18, 2008)

How about baking and cooking? I did this with my children. I had them half and double recipes, figure out serving amounts, etc.... I didn't even tell them they were learning math, just that they were helping me feed the family.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Keep making things concrete. 
This all sounds like perfectly normal stuff for her age. She's making that shift from concrete to abstract thinking, but it's not like one day she's an early-elementary concrete thinker and the next she's abstract. lol

Third grade is a magical age. A lot of kids make that shift in third, but some wait until fourth (and occasionally even fifth). I've always had to do a lot of remediation in fourth grade. It doesn't mean the third grade teacher is an idiot, just that some kids didn't make that shift yet. 

But, particularly if math hasn't been very manipulative/concrete oriented up til now, she's going to have trouble. 
Make sure when you do you worksheets that you're also modeling them with straws, counters, or my personal faves, Base 10 blocks. 
Place value should utilize a chart to sort the digits into their proper places, etc. 

Finally, if she wants to use her fingers, let her!

What's wrong with fingers? (They're a concrete "tool" btw, showing that she's not ready to make the leap) I still use my fingers sometimes.... 

If it works for her, let her do it. She'll eventually get to the point where she's far enough along that they slow her down. And she'll know it.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

ErinP THANK YOU!!
It incredibly helps to know it's a shift in thinking methods and I think we'll get those Base 10 blocks. I've done some manipulatives that just seem to confuse it more. Sigh, even though in first grade she had it down pat using them.

I actually don't have a problem with her using her fingers per se. It's just that she didn't _have_ to use them before. And I started having a *Big* problem with it last year about this time because of the very intensive way that the teacher MADE the kids use their fingers.
My daughter can no longer just look at her hand with 5 fingers and think "5" 
The teacher made all the kids start at 1 and count, they had to press the fingers against their chins one by one so she could see the whole class was not only using their fingers but using them "right". So 5 + 4 couldn't just be 9, they had to count 5 fingers, then count 4 fingers, then count 9 fingers against their chins. <is there a hair-shredding smiley>
And they went right from that to starting to use calculators. 

So I'm really frustrated because math was DD's stellar subject, and now we are having to relearn everything from scratch. And we've been at it for months.
Since she already has dyslexia it just makes everything else go more slowly. She has no trouble with history, but she has trouble with reading the history lesson and retaining what she's read.

DH has been frustrated with homeschooling (though nowhere near as frustrated as with public school and sending her to school, then spending 3-4 hours a night on homework) and I've been using last years curriculum, they sent all the workbooks home and online resources, library books, my own knowledge, etc for the more advanced things. But we've been worried that even though it's working better then P.S., maybe we can do better for her and so were thinking about buying a complete curriculum set.

Though maybe we're doing ok and I just needed to vent. In which case, I love you all. Very much.

Rean, we try that with the cooking, some days it works great, other days I need to just ask her to do something else if we're going to eat before 9. I try to make sure we do something fun once a week, cookies or bread or something she chooses for dinner and she has to do all the measuring.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> maybe we can do better for her and so were thinking about buying a complete curriculum set.


Speaking as a public school teacher, 90% of the curricula I've seen I've _detested_.

Most math programs are set up where you work on one skill per chapter. And then you drop it to work on something else. Ie, Time in Chapter 3, Measurement in Chapter 4, Long Division in Chapter 5, etc. etc. 
I'm not sure who decided this is the way to teach _anything_, but worse, I can't believe schools continue to _purchase_ this approach!!

When I was teaching country school, the entire district used Saxon math. (Illegally, I'm pretty sure, as everything was photocopied! lol) But I'm so glad they did. 

I LOVE Saxon. It's a "spiral curriculum" in that they learn a new skill each day, but they don't suddenly drop the old ones. They circle around and repeat over and over again. Ie, a rising spiral. 

I'm sure Saxon isn't the only one to do this, but it's one I've had experience with. Consequently, when it came time to pick curriculum for _my_ kids when we decided to home school, I didn't even hesitate with math. 
I bought Saxon immediately.

I highly recommend it, at least so far as K-6. 

PS: I have a link to a couple of my DD's worksheet pages for next week.

Here (make sure to click the images to blow them up better)
&
Here


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

I don't know if it will help Fi, but I used a sort of pre-algebra with Simon.
X+6=10.. and you get it by subtracting the 6 from the 10 etc..
being able to manipulate the numbers adn move them around freely within the problem really helped.
He kicks math's heinie... but still uses his fingers quite often.
I look at it like potty training... you don't really see grown ups in diapers at the bank..
and you don't often see grown ups doing easy, simple math on their fingers.
This too will pass...

Oh.. and I made him a long, thin, hand holdable number row. 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... to help in visualize the numbers in place. He reaches for that as often as he sticks the fingers up..or hides them behind his back to count on.

And Simon was 'taught' to use his fingers in 2nd grade. He was just fine until then..
horrible.

Oh... and don't spend 'all day' doing it. It causes a stress blockage and that may be what you are seeing. Their brains completely lock up when they see math.
Instead, do grammar and reading and science etc.. and slide a quickie math problem in.. a casual good job when she gets it right and then move on.
At the end of the day inform her of how many math problems she did correctly. She will be amazed.
It is a great confidence builder. I have noticed that Simon's confidence plays a big part in the finger counting too.


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## okgoatgal2 (May 28, 2002)

my spec ed kids that just can't memorize, i teach to use tic marks to add and subtract, since frequently they get lost using their fingers or they don't have manipulatives at home. sure, the paper is covered with little gray marks, but i don't care, the kids are learning to add, subtract, etc.


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