# electric fence performance, and drought conditions



## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

Our electric fencer has lots of spark right at the box, and it HAD lots of spark all around the mile perimeter earlier this summer. Now, it doenst hardly spark at all. Cattle are pushing against the fence, and not getting shocked. We thought the drought conditions are causing the cattle, and the fence posts to not get a good ground, and therefore not conduct the electricity comming from the fence.

other farmers in the area are having similar problems.


Does anyone have any insight on this?


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

I dug out around the ground rods then added rocks to act as a mulch, then water occasionally to keep soil moist. Have seen some increase in the charge on the fence. My next experiment is to add grounding rods at the farthest corners - might have to get out at 3am tho', forcasted to by near 100 today.


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## Hammer4 (Oct 13, 2005)

I run a ground wire along with the hot wires on our electric high tensile fence, and always have good spark regardless of how dry it is....the ground wire effectively ties your entire fence together and makes it one huge ground rod...if you are using t posts anyhow. 

Even if you aren't, if you alternate ground and hot wires, when the cattle push against the fence they will hit both hot and ground wires and get a big zap that way.


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## Mr. Dot (Oct 29, 2002)

Just came in from fiddling with my fence. Dry as a bone here and virtually no performance out of the fence. My plan is to add ground wire(s) as Hammer4 suggests. When I can afford it that is.


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

ok, so dry conditions do make a difference.

Dad watered the ground rod at the fencer power box a couple days ago. IT seemed to help, but it did not fully restore the performance.


My theory is that the dirt is so dry that the cows just aren't getting grounded enough to get shocked


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

When the cattle stand on bone dry ground, they don't make a very good connection. Therefore they don't get shocked. The ground wire in the fence is the best cure for it. Alternate hot and ground wires so that they touch one of each and they'll get the full shock regardless of soil conditions.

There's a tester called a "fence compass". I can't remember the brand. It's excellent for directing you to problems along your fence line. If you have high voltage at the charger, but low voltage elsewhere, you probably have a leak along the way. When your fence is working perfectly, it will read the same all around.

Genebo
Paradise Farm
Church Road, VA


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## Sunraven (Jan 20, 2007)

You could get some of the thin electric twine to use as your ground wire, it's cheaper than most wire and easy to put up. I second the suggestion of a fence tester, those are handy dandy tools, you'll know exactly what your fence is putting out and it'll help you locate bad areas before the fence looses enough charge that your cattle get out.


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

My theory is that the dirt is so dry that the cows just aren't getting grounded enough to get shocked
__________________
Your theory is correct. The best answer is as others stated: run another wire that is grounded well. That way if a cow touches both wires, the get a shock. We have this trouble a lot this time of year. About the only easy solution is for a good rain .


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Hooves are non conductive. (only the hard outer surface is non-conductive.) When it's dry, the cattle are protected by there "shoes". A ground wire shouldn't help unless the animal touches both wires at the same time.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Max, I would just like to point out that Tennessee is experiencing the worst drought in the states history. Statewide all framers are eligible for aide. I run electric fence 24/7 with 4 grounding rods all near the charger. I run no separate grounding wires the length of my fencing (20 acres). My steers and goats are graduating from electricity 101 with straight "A"'s. My soil has been dust most of the spring/summer. I would look into other tests to find out your where the problem is. Running a separate grounding wire will only be helpful if you periodically pound in more rods, lets say every 200 yards. Then the electrical current needs to only travel from their noses to hooves and off to the nearest grounding rod down the wire back to the barn. This really is not necessary, but would be helpful. Like Francsismilker mentioned just running a separate ground wire does little unless the animal touches both at once. Troubleshoot your charger first and then move outward. One more thing, pouring water onto the grounding rods does nothing more than waste water. Spend $10.00 on a fence tester/charger tester if you haven't already.


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

thanks for all the info


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

topside1 said:


> One more thing, pouring water onto the grounding rods does nothing more than waste water. Spend $10.00 on a fence tester/charger tester if you haven't already.


Wondering why you think that since we are instructed to place our grounding rods where the soil stays moister like under the eaves of buildings? It was my understanding that having the grounding rods in moist soil was to help produce a stronger charge. I run alternating +/- wires, have a meter which gives a reading rather than just lights and definitely saw an increase in the charge on the + wires after getting the soil down & around the grounding rods moister; from 5.5 to 6+ Kv. Was told by JOhnny O at Kencove that I should also see an improvement by putting grounding rods at the furthest most point from the charger. I am keeping sheep and Nigerian goats in ( so far!) and I notice that they seem to be able to hear or sense the strength of the charge - if the fence is 5 kv or less they'll challenge but up around 6 they won't. So it seems worth the little bit of effort to keep the rod area moister. If watering isn't making a difference what do you think is?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

With the alternating +/- wires the ground rod is not as important as when running just + wires. The alternating wires should give as good a jolt as possible with the charger you have.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Liese, I also have all my rods installed below eaves/roof run-off. I only meant if your pasture is nearly moisture free, then the dirts conductibility is minimal. Adding moisture maybe helpful in a small paddock settings, under an acre, but I doubt would make a great deal of difference if your running five-six strands of live wire around a 20 acre pasture. Iâve tried to raise my voltage by adding water to the rods, it made little or no effect at all, but consider at the time my pastures hadnât had any rain in six weeks. What may work in your area may not in mine?


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

Thanks Pancho & TJ, am always glad to get a better understanding of electric fencing! Now Max's issue was keeping the cattle in but what if the objective of the fence is also to keep predators out? In these dry conditions what, if anything can be done to improve conductivity, if add'l rods aren't really going to do it?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Liese said:


> Thanks Pancho & TJ, am always glad to get a better understanding of electric fencing! Now Max's issue was keeping the cattle in but what if the objective of the fence is also to keep predators out? In these dry conditions what, if anything can be done to improve conductivity, if add'l rods aren't really going to do it?


It works the same from either side. The shock is the same no matter what direction you are going.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

In post # 10 I mentioned adding additional rods every 200 yards and a dedicated ground wire running from the additional rods and back to your main grounding rods back at the barn. That will make an incredible difference in wet or dry field situations. The last time I had low voltage symptom I blamed it on everything except the charger (drought, grounding rods, to many weeds conducting, you name it). Well it turned out to be my charger was throwing weak voltage....go figure. When troubleshooting I now start with the chargers output and then start check things down the line....Love electric, providing you have the right system installed....

I'm running the Parmak Energizer 4
http://www.parmakusa.com/Fencers/110.htm


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

TJ, if our bottom wire is not charged, about 4" off the ground, could we use that to connect those add'l grounding rods and then the "barn rod bank"? Now the next question is what if we connected the other 2 non-charged wires, would this make a complete plus-minus system?

Pancho, like your sense of humour!


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Liese, absolutely...on your first question. don't understand the second....sorry.


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

TJ, What Bob wants to know is with your idea about connecting the add'l ground rods back to the barn bank, what if we not only connected that first non charged line but the other 2 non charged lines ( lines 3 & 5, lines 2 & 4 are charged). Would we be gaining anything by that?


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

No not really, if you running 14 gauge aluminum wire then one ground return from your remotely placed rods is all you would need....You can still hook them up, can't hurt...I don't use remote ground rods, never had a need. These great ideas will optimize your system, but keep in mind everyone if you bought a weak charger from the get-go, well you only get what you paid for, a 100 ground rods may never solve your fencing needs. Look at your chargers output voltage @ no-load, the one I am using is 11,000 volts....ouch....Who's Bob?


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

Bob is my partner, whose own reading I interrupt to read your posts to  How does one determine the [email protected] no load? The Parmak unit we use principly supposedly has a "governer" which adjusts the output to situation. Well, I'll look at the unit and see if they put this info on it or the manual. Thanks again for all your "output" !


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

I bought a fence tester last night. It has lighted numbers on an increasing scale up to 7000 volts. 

When I tested the fencer control box I put the tester on the hot terminal, and the ground rod that dad has been keeping wet. The tester went to maximum voltage. 

When I tested from the fence to the wet ground rod the tester maxed out again. when I tested from the hot terminal, OR the fence to any of the fence posts the tester barely registered anything.

My conclusion is that the soil is to dry to create a grounded condition for the cattle, and without being grounded they will not conduct electricity just like birds on electric wires, anf therefore will not get a shock.


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Just like Michiganfarmer discovered, the charge is highest when connecting the meter from the hot terminal to the ground terminal of the charger. That's what you do when you run alternating hot/ground wires along your fence: The ground wires are connected directly back to the ground terminal of the charger. POW! maximum shock.

By alternating the hot/ground wires, you force an animal that tries to go through the fence to touch one of each hot/ground wires. The bottom and top wires should always be hot.

In addition to the ground wires being connected back to the ground terminal of the charger, they are also connected to the ground rods that you drive into the ground. That way, you get the best of both ways: hot wire to earth gives a shock while hot wire to ground wire gives a better shock.

You should be driving 3 or more 6 feet long copper coated grounding rods near the charger, to ground it. These rods reach down deep enough to find moisture. The moist earth down there can conduct low impedence shocks a long distance. The problem with drought is that it lowers the level of moist part of the earth, so that the shock has to travel down through dry dirt to reach the moist earth. This weakens the charge.

The connection that an animal makes between a hot wire and a grounded wire is not affected by weather. Only things like thick wool on a sheep can protect them from that shock. Cattle, goats, dogs and people soon learn to stay away from those fences.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


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## Hammer4 (Oct 13, 2005)

I'm another one who adds a ground wire or two to my electric fence and tie it back to the ground rod at the charger....I don't do it so much so the animal has to hit a hot and ground wire to get shocked, though it does that as well very nicely. I do it so the size and length of the grounding field is extended along your entire fenceline...so any place an animal is standing on the ground and touches a hot wire, that animal is literally standing right next to a ground rod...so it shocks very well all along the fence, regardless of how dry it gets.

I know others disagree and maintain that an animal has to hit a hot and ground wire to benefit from the additional ground wire...but having that ground wire out along the length of the fence when you are attaching it to a metal t-post, makes for a wicked shock out at the end of the fence, even in the driest of summers.


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## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

See this related thread:

http://homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=200829

Especially my post in that thread as I don't see the answers here to some of those questions.


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