# Are Sugar Baby watermelons almost seedless?



## Betho (Dec 27, 2006)

Every picture I've seen of them, I seed bright red flesh but either no seeds or a few white immature ones. Are they just really low seeded? I love watermelon but I hate the seeds, I wish there was an heirloom watermelon I could grow that didn't have many seeds.


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

I imagine that all heirloom vegetables would be of the seeded varieties for the obvious reasons. But who knows?


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## crispin (Jun 30, 2010)

I grew baby sugar melons last year.
They had white seeds in them.


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## COSunflower (Dec 4, 2006)

I grew some a long time ago and they were SOOOO good and flavorful - and just the right size to cut in half and share with a friend.  I believe that mine had just a few small white seeds in them too.


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## Guest123 (Oct 10, 2006)

Fewer seeds, and they are awesome!


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## DavidUnderwood (Jul 5, 2007)

What we call sugar babies here are yellow
when ripe. Sweetest I ever tasted. And not
too many seeds.


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## COSunflower (Dec 4, 2006)

Mine were round, colored outside like reg. watermelon and bright red inside. VERY sweet!!!


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

In Sugar Baby watermelon, the flesh ripens before the seeds. If you want to collect seeds from them, you have to let them over-ripen on the vine, far past the point they are any good for eating.


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

From what I can find Sugar Baby watermelons are now considered a type of melon rather than a variety.

Seed catalogs show several varieties of Sugar Baby type melons, some are diploid and some are triploid, so you would need to buy a specific triploid variety for it to be seedless.


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## Betho (Dec 27, 2006)

Otter said:


> In Sugar Baby watermelon, the flesh ripens before the seeds. If you want to collect seeds from them, you have to let them over-ripen on the vine, far past the point they are any good for eating.


Awesome! That makes sense with what everyone else is saying with the small white seeds. I think they are going on my list!


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Sugar Baby isn't a type of melon, it's an old "heirloom" variety. If one only gets white seeds, it ain't fully ripe yet. The Jung's photo depicts a ripe one with brown seeds.

www.jungseed.com/dp.asp?pID=04105&c=157&p=Sweet+Baby+Watermelon

Martin


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## How Do I (Feb 11, 2008)

My seed pack for Sugar Baby is showing brown seeds too.


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## Betho (Dec 27, 2006)

Okay I think I want to get these for this year. When I say white seeds I mean immature seeds like in the "seedless" melons at the stores.

Except I don't want to pay $5 shipping on a pack of seeds! Anybody got some saved from a strain of flesh-maturing-before-seeds that I could plant? For a SASE or I'll trade ya! I've got lots of heirloom seeds for various veggies.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Betho said:


> Okay I think I want to get these for this year. When I say white seeds I mean immature seeds like in the "seedless" melons at the stores.
> 
> Except I don't want to pay $5 shipping on a pack of seeds! Anybody got some saved from a strain of flesh-maturing-before-seeds that I could plant? For a SASE or I'll trade ya! I've got lots of heirloom seeds for various veggies.


Would you pay $1.96 shipping? That's what it would cost for a padded envelope and postage. (25Â¢ for the envelope and $1.71 postage.) Packet of 50 Sugar Baby seeds would cost $1.95 plus 11Â¢ tax. Grand total of $4.02. 

Martin


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## mypatriotsupply (Jan 21, 2009)

These are a variety I carry. $3.90 after shipping for 75 seeds. 

http://www.mypatriotsupply.com/Sugar_Baby_Heirloom_Watermelon_Garden_Seeds_p/sugar_baby.htm

Of course, the more purchased the more saved on shipping.


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

Paquebot said:


> Sugar Baby isn't a type of melon, it's an old "heirloom" variety. If one only gets white seeds, it ain't fully ripe yet. The Jung's photo depicts a ripe one with brown seeds.
> 
> www.jungseed.com/dp.asp?pID=04105&c=157&p=Sweet+Baby+Watermelon
> 
> Martin


I should have perhaps used Sugar Baby size instead of type.

Help me understand please. Black Diamond and Sugar Baby are ??? Old heirloom varieties. If they are varieties, then what are the hybrids that are either Sugar Baby or Black Diamond? Ex: my seed catalog shows hybrid ?? of Sugar Babies that are diploid and also hybrid ?? that triploid.


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## mypatriotsupply (Jan 21, 2009)

A lot of seed companies introduce hybrids under names of varieties you already know and love so they seem familiar to you. There are many varieties we use every day that have hybrid counterparts.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

mypatriotsupply said:


> A lot of seed companies introduce hybrids under names of varieties you already know and love so they seem familiar to you. There are many varieties we use every day that have hybrid counterparts.


Such as which ones?

Martin


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Windy in Kansas said:


> I should have perhaps used Sugar Baby size instead of type.
> 
> Help me understand please. Black Diamond and Sugar Baby are ??? Old heirloom varieties. If they are varieties, then what are the hybrids that are either Sugar Baby or Black Diamond? Ex: my seed catalog shows hybrid ?? of Sugar Babies that are diploid and also hybrid ?? that triploid.


You do seem to come up with some strange catalog entries. Last year it was hybrid beans!

I've got some Black Diamond seed from 2007 that I'm hoping to germinate and grow out this year. It's the one with the red flesh and older than the hills. There's also a yellow version that's quickly become more common. Sugar Baby also exists in red and yellow. The red is a fixed variety while the yellow is a hybrid. Sugar Baby probably has a lot of other names since it's grown pretty much worldwide. 

Martin


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## mypatriotsupply (Jan 21, 2009)

Golden Bantam Sweet Corn is the first that comes to mind. 

There is also an older variety of Silver King that is OP and not GM hybrid. 

Black Beauty Zucchini has a evil hybrid counterpart, at least in Europe - I'm sure here as well. I've seen hybrid varieties of your older Beefsteak Tomatoes. 

The list really goes on but these are just off the top of my head. It would be easier to just look at any large seed catalog and you'll start to spot the hybrid seeds that share names with the non-hybrid open pollinated older versions.


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## mypatriotsupply (Jan 21, 2009)

Paquebot said:


> The red is a fixed variety while the yellow is a hybrid. Sugar Baby probably has a lot of other names since it's grown pretty much worldwide.
> 
> Martin


I guess you gave the first example!


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Golden Bantam is not a hybrid and has no hybrid counterpart.

Beefsteak tomato is a type which also happens to be a variety. 

Martin


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

mypatriotsupply said:


> I guess you gave the first example!


You, being knowledgeable in the seed business, would also know that the yellow one is called Yellow Baby!

Martin


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## mypatriotsupply (Jan 21, 2009)

I guess Ferry-Morse didn't get the memo:
http://www.amazon.com/Ferry-Morse-1444-Golden-Bantam-Hybrid/dp/B0013KFK6A


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

mypatriotsupply said:


> I guess Ferry-Morse didn't get the memo:
> http://www.amazon.com/Ferry-Morse-1444-Golden-Bantam-Hybrid/dp/B0013KFK6A


Nice try but you missed an *X*. That's Golden *X* Bantam and not Golden Bantam. Thar do be a difference, in case you weren't aware! 

Martin


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## mypatriotsupply (Jan 21, 2009)

Nope, didn't miss the X. But it only proves my point earlier that has us on the verge of a seed spitting contest 

My point was that seed companies sometimes introduce hybrids and GM seeds under names that are familiar to us. 

I think that point is very well illustrated in the example of Golden Bantam Yellow Sweet vs. Golden X Bantam Yellow Sweet.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

mypatriotsupply said:


> I think that point is very well illustrated in the example of Golden Bantam Yellow Sweet vs. Golden X Bantam Yellow Sweet.


Google search for "Golden X Bantam Yellow Sweet" gives zero listings. Any clue as to which company is selling it? 

Martin


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## mypatriotsupply (Jan 21, 2009)

The "X" on the packet we linked to previously is short for the word "Cross" . So the hybrid version is actually Golden Cross Bantam. Try that and you'll get about 34,000 responses. 

It's rather obvious that both are a yellow sweet corn, so pretending what I said doesn't exist as a method of verbal jousting doesn't make much sense to me. 

Really, this conversation isn't that deep! I simply put out my opinion on a subject. I was probably wrong in using the word "many" when I initially placed my opinion out there. Considering the hoards of hybrids out there in perspective there are probably relatively few that share names. It probably seems like more to me because I deal with it every day with some of the non-hybrid varieties I sell. You disagreed with my opinion and we both pointed out some arguing points, but I feel like now its just getting silly. So I opt to withdraw at this time and get back to work 

Good day, sir


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

mypatriotsupply said:


> You disagreed with my opinion and we both pointed out some arguing points, but I feel like now its just getting silly. So I opt to withdraw at this time and get back to work
> 
> Good day, sir


There is nothing "silly" about correcting misinformation, regardless if it is due to ignorance or maliciousness. But I do agree that your present decision was a wise one. As Will Rogers once said: "If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging."

Martin


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

Paquebot said:


> You do seem to come up with some strange catalog entries. Last year it was hybrid beans!



Perhaps because many of the ones I mention are available in commercial growers catalogs. I'm not currently home but will try to find links when I get home and post the ones for diploid and triploid Sugar Baby melons I mention


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## Guest (May 11, 2011)

I always knew cucurbits were a highly charges subject. I recently posted in a cucurbit thread and for hours lived in fear of a confrontational exchange. Well, minutes, maybe.


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## Betho (Dec 27, 2006)

Holy cow what happened to this thread... geez. Personally I would have thought, if I didn't know different, that "Golden Bantam" and "Golden Bantam Cross" are the same variety. 

Mypatriotsupply - the Sugar Baby melons you have in your catalog are exactly what I wanted so I'll be ordering next payday. THANK YOU.


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## mypatriotsupply (Jan 21, 2009)

Betho said:


> Mypatriotsupply - the Sugar Baby melons you have in your catalog are exactly what I wanted so I'll be ordering next payday. THANK YOU.


Awesome, and don't forget (many do) that each order gets a free packet of tomatoes with it. Just add either a Beefsteak, an Ace 55 or a Large Red Cherry Tomato to your cart and use the special code: free76

If all you are ordering is the watermelons ,its like getting two seed packets for the price of one


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## Betho (Dec 27, 2006)

mypatriotsupply said:


> Awesome, and don't forget (many do) that each order gets a free packet of tomatoes with it. Just add either a Beefsteak, an Ace 55 or a Large Red Cherry Tomato to your cart and use the special code: free76
> 
> If all you are ordering is the watermelons ,its like getting two seed packets for the price of one


Fab! Thank you!


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

Windy in Kansas said:


> From what I can find Sugar Baby watermelons are now considered a type of melon rather than a variety.
> 
> Seed catalogs show several varieties of Sugar Baby type melons, some are diploid and some are triploid, so you would need to buy a specific triploid variety for it to be seedless.





Paquebot said:


> Sugar Baby isn't a type of melon, it's an old "heirloom" variety. If one only gets white seeds, it ain't fully ripe yet. The Jung's photo depicts a ripe one with brown seeds.
> 
> www.jungseed.com/dp.asp?pID=04105&c=157&p=Sweet+Baby+Watermelon
> 
> Martin





Windy in Kansas said:


> I should have perhaps used Sugar Baby size instead of type.
> 
> Help me understand please. Black Diamond and Sugar Baby are ??? Old heirloom varieties. If they are varieties, then what are the hybrids that are either Sugar Baby or Black Diamond? Ex: my seed catalog shows hybrid ?? of Sugar Babies that are diploid and also hybrid ?? that triploid.





Paquebot said:


> You do seem to come up with some strange catalog entries. Last year it was hybrid beans!
> 
> I've got some Black Diamond seed from 2007 that I'm hoping to germinate and grow out this year. It's the one with the red flesh and older than the hills. There's also a yellow version that's quickly become more common. Sugar Baby also exists in red and yellow. The red is a fixed variety while the yellow is a hybrid. Sugar Baby probably has a lot of other names since it's grown pretty much worldwide.
> 
> Martin





Windy in Kansas said:


> Perhaps because many of the ones I mention are available in commercial growers catalogs. I'm not currently home but will try to find links when I get home and post the ones for diploid and triploid Sugar Baby melons I mention


I'm home now and according to my Siegers catalog they are calling Sugar Baby watermelons a "TYPE" of watermelon.

Their online catalog shows this at the right. http://www.siegers.com/shop/browse_species.asp?species_id=wat


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Windy in Kansas said:


> I'm home now and according to my Siegers catalog they are calling Sugar Baby watermelons a "TYPE" of watermelon.


Now you get it! There are Roma tomatoes and Roma type tomatoes, Beefsteak tomatoes and Beefsteak type tomatoes, and Sugar Baby watermelons and Sugar Baby type watermelons. The originals are each established varieties. The types can be anything, hybrid or otherwise. 

Martin


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

Paquebot said:


> Sugar Baby isn't a type of melon, it's an old "heirloom" variety. Martin





Paquebot said:


> Now you get it! There are Roma tomatoes and Roma type tomatoes, Beefsteak tomatoes and Beefsteak type tomatoes, and Sugar Baby watermelons and Sugar Baby type watermelons. The originals are each established varieties. The types can be anything, hybrid or otherwise.
> 
> Martin


"isn't a type of melon" later "and Sugar Baby type watermelons"

Whatever. I'm saying uncle and giving up. I won't bother your forum again.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

You've got me with sematics there but Sugar Baby sold as Sugar Baby is Sugar Baby and has no other name but Sugar Baby. There is only one Sugar Baby, period. There is nobody honestly or legally selling Sugar Baby in any other form other than the original. Those sold by Sieger are Dark Star, Jade Star, and Imagination. 

Martin


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## DavidUnderwood (Jul 5, 2007)

So my yellow melons are not sugar babies?
Lot of folks round here will like to know it.
Somebody said the yellow ones are hybrids.
The seed I have, I've had 20 years. Shelby 
Smith had them long before that. How long
does it take a hybrid's genetics to "break down"?


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

DavidUnderwood said:


> So my yellow melons are not sugar babies?
> Lot of folks round here will like to know it.
> Somebody said the yellow ones are hybrids.
> The seed I have, I've had 20 years. Shelby
> ...


The yellow version of Sugar Baby, as previously stated, is Yellow Baby. What was the name of the variety which you were sold 20 years ago? There's long been a number of hybrid yellow watermelons available. There's also Sugar Dandy and Gold Baby as fixed varieties. I suspect that names of melons are just as susceptible to wrong names just like any other vegetable variety.

For growing out hybrids, they are usually pretty much sorted out by F5. If someone offered me an F7 of anything, I would consider it pure enough to be a fixed variety.

Martin


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