# Can I?



## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Keep in mind I know nothing about solar power. I just was wondering... Can I dedicate 1 outlet to a single solar panel.... Would 1 solar panel accumulate enough energy to power a tv for a few hrs a day?


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,
I'd say no.

But, if you want a simple way to get started with solar in a small way that is not quite legal --this might do it: http://www.builditsolarblog.com/2012/03/under-radar-plug-and-play-grid-tie-pv.html



Gary


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

It depends. Our tv and sat box draw about 250 watts, about the same as 15 cfl lightbulbs burning. TV is the biggest single power user in our off-grid house.

One solar panel feeding power into a charge controller, then into batteries, then into an inverter, (all with some power loss at each step) then into your tv - won't power your tv very long. You need more panels and more than one battery. Or get a tv and sat/cable box that draws a LOT less than ours

Keep researching it and you can come up with a system that will do what you want. Wiring it to code will take a bit of research too.

Do it!


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

We have a small tv prob 32 inch regular tube maybe smaller. No cable or sat. Just a roku. How do I figure out what elec I'm using. It is the kwh?


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

What you and pretty much anyone else who wants to conserve electricity needs is a meter to find the true usage. We happen to have a kill-a-watt branded one but there are others. 

They don't cost all that much and are VERY easy to use. Plug the meter into a wall outlet and then plug whatever you are testing right into the meter. Then look at the readout. Results are sometimes surprising when you start testing all the 110 volt devices in your house. 

There is a huge difference between older tube tv's and the newer ones. And a big difference even among the new ones.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

If you got a more efficient TV you probably could. Tube type tells me it's pretty high draw. You will also need a properly sized battery bank and charge controller.

Depending on where you life it may not be legal to do it per NEC codes.

WWW


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Yes you could do as posted........
But your not going to like the rest of the story. . . .Nor the price tag.
You could watch during the middle of the day . . .solar window--- 4 hours max.
If the sun isn't shining or goes behind a cloud . . .No..

You will need a battery system if you want to watch the "6pm news"

Your **32 inch regular tube** uses far more energy than a newer LCD tv.


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

I have a TV that you could watch all day with a 100 watt panel and a deep cycle marine battery. The catch is.. It has a 7" screen! (Has a DVD player and is remote control, though)  Speakers pretty much suck but that's an easy fix..

I'm not trying to discourage you but trying to support a 32" TV isn't going to be cheap. If this is an experiment to learn solar, I suggest something that isn't such a power hog. 

If the Roku has a wall wart and the output is D.C., I can figure out how to operate it directly from a 12 volt battery.. (No Inverter Needed)


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

Television energy consumption is also dependant on the brightness setting.

The brighter you turn it up, the more electricity you use.


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,

Not sure that we made it clear that you have two basic ways to go on this:

Approach 1: You can set up a small, independent solar system that is basically a small off-grid system just large enough to power your TV. This would need to include a PV panel, a deep cycle battery, a charge controller (eg a Morningstar) to control the charging of your battery and to keep it from being damaged by overcharging, and a small inverter (many sources for this) to convert the battery voltage to 120 VAC household power to run your TV. You then unplug the TV from the wall and plug it into your new inverter.
Its basically similar to this system that was done by one of the regulars here: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/PV/TruckPV/TruckPV.htm His system is bigger than what you would need, but it could be scaled down.

An advantage of this approach is that it would give you some emergency power in case of a power outage. On the down side, its more expensive to setup, and, on many days it will likely generate more power than your TV can use, and this excess capacity is just wasted. The system is also a bit less efficient due to the energy losses in charging the battery, and requires maintaining the batteries.

Approach 2: - You can do a small grid-tied PV system as in in the link I mentioned above: http://www.builditsolarblog.com/2012...id-tie-pv.html

This system consists of a PV panel and a small grid tie inverter. The PV panel plugs into the grid tie inverter, and the grid tie inverter plugs into an outlet in the house. When the sun is shining, the grid tie inverter feeds the solar power into the house wiring and this offsets the power being used by your TV (or anything else that might be drawing power in the house). There is no direct connection between the TV and the solar system, but you can size the system so that over an average day it delivers as much power as your TV uses.

On the plus side, this approach is simpler and cheaper than then approach 1, it does not require maintaining a battery, all of the power it generates will be productively used, and its overall efficiency will likely be better.
On the negative side, it won't give you any power when the utility power is down, and its a bootleg system that is not technically legal.

If the bootleg part is bothersome, there are some legal versions of this system -- I think that Lowes sells one version that has the UL approval and consists of one PV panel with an approve grid tie inverter that plugs into a house outlet.

Gary


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

SolarGary said:


> Approach 2: - You can do a small grid-tied PV system as in in the link I mentioned above: http://www.builditsolarblog.com/2012...id-tie-pv.html
> 
> This system consists of a PV panel and a small grid tie inverter. The PV panel plugs into the grid tie inverter, and the grid tie inverter plugs into an outlet in the house. When the sun is shining, the grid tie inverter feeds the solar power into the house wiring and this offsets the power being used by your TV (or anything else that might be drawing power in the house). There is no direct connection between the TV and the solar system, but you can size the system so that over an average day it delivers as much power as your TV uses.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for explaining this to me! I appreciate you all sharing your wisdom rather than telling me to go look it up lol. While I definitely will research it on my own, it's nice to get a general answer to see if its worth it. So it seems that since I'm searching for a way to pay " the man" less in electric every month, then I prob want to look into the idea above . As I understand it this would use the solar energy first then the elec would kick in? Kind of similar to a hybrid car? uses elec then gas? How many kilowatt hours on average per day do u think I could get out of a smallish system? We use about 700 a month . Do u even measure solar power that way?


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

dmm1976 said:


> Thanks so much for explaining this to me! I appreciate you all sharing your wisdom rather than telling me to go look it up lol. While I definitely will research it on my own, it's nice to get a general answer to see if its worth it. So it seems that since I'm searching for a way to pay " the man" less in electric every month, then I prob want to look into the idea above . As I understand it this would use the solar energy first then the elec would kick in? Kind of similar to a hybrid car? uses elec then gas? How many kilowatt hours on average per day do u think I could get out of a smallish system? We use about 700 a month . Do u even measure solar power that way?


You might take a look at cutting down your usage first. Do you have electric furnace, heat pump, stove, hot water? Reducing these big loads even a little bit will offset your tv use and more. Just turning off lights and tv when not needed and putting all phantom loads on power strips will help too. Lifestyle changes and conserving will cost far less than a solar system and have a faster payback. Once you have done all you can to reduce, you will have a better idea of what your need for solar equipment will be and what the payback will be.

FYI, a grid-tied system will be cheaper and easier to maintain than a "battery type" one, BUT, you will not have any power when the grid goes down. If this is a problem, or if you want to eventually be off-grid for social or economic reasons, you should start your research and system design with batteries in mind.


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

I read an article that stated Wisconsin ( if in remembering right could be another state) would be charging solar folks a surcharge to go towards infrastructure maintenance . Even though they did not use it the article said that they should still have to help maintain the system most people use. ( good of the many outweighing your own good lol ) that's kinda crazy to me. Don't remember if this was the electric company or govt and it seemed like it was a relatively small monthly fee but ----... Try to get ahead and be self reliant and they figure our a way to get you anyways .


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/busi...-companies-aim-to-charge-solar-customers.html is an article apparently it's a lot of states. And this one just talks about people using both. Not sole solar users. The article I read was talking about off griders.


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

dmm1976 said:


> I read an article that stated Wisconsin ( if in remembering right could be another state) would be charging solar folks a surcharge to go towards infrastructure maintenance . Even though they did not use it the article said that they should still have to help maintain the system most people use. ( good of the many outweighing your own good lol ) that's kinda crazy to me. Don't remember if this was the electric company or govt and it seemed like it was a relatively small monthly fee but ----... Try to get ahead and be self reliant and they figure our a way to get you anyways .


That might have been Arizona: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...s-impose-power-grid-fees-for-solar-roofs.html
They are going to charge a fee to customers with PV that depends on how much they generate, but averages about $5 per month.


I have a PV system, and would not like paying the extra fee so much, but I can see the utilities point of view. The utility normally buys electricity wholesale for roughly 5 cents a KWH, and then sells it to customers for about 10 cents a KWH. The 5 cents difference they use to maintain the grid. 
But, for PV customers in most places that have net metering, they are buying the PV power at full retail and the PV customers are not paying anything toward maintaining the grid infrastructure. Grid tied PV owners do use the grid both to supply power when the PV system production is not enough (eg every night), and to distribute their excess power during the day. It seems fair to me that PV owns should pay something for this grid maintenance, or that they should only be paid wholesale for the electricity they produce?

Gary


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

for the most part solar panels do not put out a steady power, and either need a special inverter that is grid tie, or to have a stand alone system that usually uses a charger/controller and a battery, the battery is the storage tank to even and store the power collected, and then depending on the TV and equipment, one will need to take that DC power in the battery and make it compatible for the TV and other, (it may all be done via DC, if the TV and equipment is such, but normally an inverter is used to turn it in to 120 volt alternating current,

so it will not be cheap, to be able to do it correctly, and it will take more than a solar panel and a power receptacle,


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

I'll start right off by saying that I know very little about them, but you might look into panels that have an on-board micro inverter. They might give you 110 volt AC directly? While the sun shines.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

They're not onboard as such, but do mount right near the back of the panel. They put out 240vAC, but only if the grid is up....won't work without the grid.

The little silver looking boxes on the racking before the panels went on:


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