# round ball loads for small game



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I have thought that it would be good to try for some time , but thought there was a law against the use of a center fire rifle being used for small game species. I know some states have them.
and I was probably reading the part about 22lr or larger rifle in a shotgun only zone almost half the state used to be shot gun only but not so any more 

I thought well this would be a perfect time with the lack of 22lr to get the law changed.

I started reading through the hunting regs for Wisconsin and could not find where it said that I could not use a center fire rifle rifle for small game 


maybe another set of eyes will find it but it appears that hunting small game with a center fire rifle is ok 
http://dnr.wi.gov/files/PDF/pubs/wm/WM0430.pdf

what I could find was 
*possess a rifle larger than .22 caliber rimfire or any .22 caliber or larger centerfire rifle *
*during the gun deer season*
* in shotgun-only deer hunting areas unless it is unloaded *
*and enclosed within a carrying case*

for handguns I was able to find 
*hunt small game mammals using a handgun with a barrel shorter than 4 inches measured *
*from the muzzle to the firing pin with the action closed or from the muzzle to the breech *
*face.*
*â¢*
*possess a concealed handgun unless authorized by a Carry Concealed Weapon License *
*or otherwise are authorized to possess a concealed firearm.*
*â¢*
*hunt any game bird (page 11), migratory game bird (page 13), or wild turkey (page 17) *
*with a handgun*

for muzzle loaders

â¢amunition restrictions for birds migratory birds and turky

*muzzleloading *
*handguns *
*are not legal for hunting game birds, wild turkeys, or *
*migratory game birds.*
*â¢*
*if hunting small game mammals, muzzleloading handguns must have a minimum *
*barrel length of 4 inches measured from the muzzle to the breech face.*


now I just need a round ball mold that small , In my reading some people noted a .32 call ball pushed through a .311 sizer worked very well for 30 cal rifles and could also be used in fat 30's and 32 cal rifles


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## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

. You can only a rifle for vermit here in ohio . Which means any rifle classified as vermit rifle can be used . squirrel , rabbit , pheasant , turkey it has to be shotgun or bow . You don't want to go shorter than 5 inches , loudness and lost accurate (sp?) on handguns . Don't know of anybody who use blackpowder for turkey . Strictly deer around here . So what happens if you run into wolf and you are only allow a 22 . Scary . Why not switch to crossbow ? I believe their is shortage of powder for black powder . Haven't check or heard of any changes .


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

here we can carry a personal defense gun any time any season 

crossbow here is only for over 65 or disabled

I more wanted to highlight the merits of a round ball load than go over state to state law even though I pointed to the inability to find a law prohibiting it in areas open to rifle use in my own state.

a .311 round ball weighs in at about 47 gr 7 gr more than a 22lr bullet but is half again as wide , it has a very low ballistic coefficent .45 it is as fat as it is long so it does not carry it's energy the same that a conical bullet does when fired at 950 fps it can be expected to reach the 25 yard target at 940fps with 92 foot pounds of energy , but drop 1.5 inches at 50 yards and by 200 yards if fired level be on the ground with 64 inches of drop by 200 yards

a 22lr 40gr bullet at 1250 fps will have only dropped 46 inches at 200 yards it does drop rather fast after 200 yards with an expected drop at 225 yards of 63 inches 

so we can definitely establish it's safety factor that while it is reported to be a very effective small game load at 25 yards it is ballisticly shorter range than the 40 gr 22 cal bullet


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## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

I believe the law has changed in wis on crossbow . http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/articles/wisconsin-crossbow-hunting-now-open-for-all


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I'd think that a cast bullet out of a 30-30 or 32 special would work on squirrels of course head shots would be best.

 Al


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

a 35 definitely works , I got one with a pistol this year


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## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

Did a little reading . 32 cal fowls up faster than 35 or 36 . Found this site while doing my reading . Track of the Wolf - Muzzle Loading & Black Powder Guns Kits, Parts, Accoutrements, Rendezvous Gear & Primitive Americana


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## dkhern (Nov 30, 2012)

i have shot ought buckshot in 308 over 2.5 gr bullseve. thumb seat the ball. you may have to raise muzzle and shake to seat powder on primer


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

Check with a good gunsmith or gun powder manufacturer before you underload a high power rifle shell. The lower powder level slows the bullet leaving the barrel which then allows the pressure to start to build too much. My gunsmith who really knows his stuff said not to fool with it without professional guidance. I had wanted to underload my .22-.250 for squirrel hunting.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

rod44 said:


> Check with a good gunsmith or gun powder manufacturer before you underload a high power rifle shell. The lower powder level slows the bullet leaving the barrel which then allows the pressure to start to build too much. My gunsmith who really knows his stuff said not to fool with it without professional guidance. I had wanted to underload my .22-.250 for squirrel hunting.


You want to be sure to use faster burning powders than those typically used for full-power loads. I believe your gunsmith is warning against secondary explosion effect, which is said to occur with reduced loads of slow burning powder (and as far as I know, is not a universally accepted theory).

For instance, as a young lad, I shot many 7mm Remington Magnum rounds loaded with a 135gr cast bullet and 2 grains of Bullseye (held against the primer with a tuft of cotton). This was my indoor practice load when it was too cold to shoot outside.

I also shot more than a few .45 round balls in my 45-70, usually loaded with Unique.

Try around 8 grains of SR4756 with a 50gr cast bullet in your 22-250. Will get you about 1,900 fps.

Tim


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## Esteban29304 (Apr 29, 2003)

For small game, I only use a good quality pellet rifle . 500 pellets for about $14 [ .20 or .22 cal. ] is so cheap compared to other ammo.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

But it doesn't go BANG!!


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Esteban29304 said:


> For small game, I only use a good quality pellet rifle . 500 pellets for about $14 [ .20 or .22 cal. ] is so cheap compared to other ammo.



but a pellet rifle doesn't universally take both small game out to 50 yards or big game with a change of the round in the chamber 

Air rifles get temperamental near zero degrees and the ones I have seen didn't fields strip and clean near as easy as many cartridge guns 

air or pellet rifles are nice and I know people hunt all sorts of things with them , but they seem mighty expensive to me for the energy they put down range , even if your shot cost is 2.8 cents and my price per round to use brass I already have with powder, primer I already stock and dies and a rifle I already own is 7 cents each. 4761 rounds later you have paid for a 200 dollar pellet gun with the difference in cost per shot.

larger things I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting with a 5mm pellet gun that would be just fine with a reduced 30 cal rifle load , Raccoons , coyote , wood chucks, stray dogs . you don't need a magnum for a wood chuck but I sure hate it when they can make it back to their hole wounded.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

Around here a few people have switched to .17 caliber centerfire rifles for squirrel hunting. Have you thought about them?


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## charliesbugs (Feb 25, 2007)

I do not know what Wintergrower means as a classified "vermit' rifle. You can shoot "vermit" or anything except deer with about any type of rifle, from a 22 to a 45/70 which I have done. Maybe I read his reply wrong. Any other buckeyes out there on this.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

I couldn't figure out the "vermit" one either??


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I was just reminded of another load I have heard of ,1 to 1 1/2 gr bulls eye under a 22caliber pellet pushed flat into the neck of an already shot 223 brass, the brass needs to have been shot in your gun , this fire forms it to your chamber and makes the seal better , by the way this load has been choreographed at 3k


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Here's some round ball loads for the 30-30 from an old Gun Digest from the 60's or 70's. The author used either 6.5 gr 4759, 7-14 gr 4198 and 15 gr 3031. A half square of TP above powder, ball was seated sprue up. He didn't go into alot of detail of the actual loading process if my memory is correct. He gave no velocity or accuracy figures. I would be tempted to use a Lee factory crimper. I've never tried these so use caution. Get a Lyman cast bullet handbook for a very comprehensive look at cast bullets and loads.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

bow donkey ,that is a lot of powder you need a bunch of powder for it to burn with slow rifle powders 

some people just can't wrap their head around pistol powder in a rifle cartridge , but it works really well and you can get some light bullets moving a hole lot faster than you might think , you must of course use caution as it would be easy to over charge with plenty of room left in the case

but in a 30-30 or similar sized case 2.7 gr of bullseye will do you 
unique or other similar powders need a little more to get a clean burn 4-5 gr depending on powder

I am using the tl314-90swc and 4.5 gr of power pistol and have made up some loads that look very promising , going to try and get out Saturday and give them a run at 25 and 50 yards from the bench 

there is gallery load data going back to the 19th century , apparently light practice loads were common for practice among guard units with their 30-40 rifles at more than 2000 rounds to the pound of powder it is easy to see why


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Pete thanks for the feedback. The data I gave was from notes I had taken from the article. I do like fast burning flake shotgun powders in my 223. After whacking quite a few critters with them I pretty well wrote off the idea of anything bigger. Even a 55gr FMJ with MV of 1700 fps can rip a squirrel in half with a misplaced shot.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I got some on paper today , i had to walk into the range in knee deep snow so i didn't bring sand bags or anything , but at 25 yards with iron sights i would fire 6 fed from the magazine and have 3 touching and 3 more scattered around the group but all minute of squire head , but it was snowing steady , and I didn't have much of a rest even at 50 i would be confident of hitting a squirrel or rabbit , 4.5 gr power pistol might actually be moving a little fast but do they ever punch nice clean holes


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

bowdonkey said:


> Pete thanks for the feedback. The data I gave was from notes I had taken from the article. I do like fast burning flake shotgun powders in my 223. After whacking quite a few critters with them I pretty well wrote off the idea of anything bigger. Even a 55gr FMJ with MV of 1700 fps can rip a squirrel in half with a misplaced shot.


I would be interested in that load


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