# Grass/forage-fed only for dairy goats?



## Matt H in IL (Sep 4, 2010)

Anybody have any advice or links to articles about feeding dairy goats with grass/forage only and no grain? I don't mind lower milk production but want to know if it's practical and okay health-wise. Planning on getting goats in near future and want to plan ahead. Thanks in advance for any info!


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/archive/index.php/t-299307.html


----------



## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Even those who are on the grassfed only kick usually say to never try to have a dairy goat on a grass or forage only diet. . .
You might consider a dairy cow with lines bred for forage only milking - or a dexter


----------



## Birch Hill Farm (Dec 3, 2009)

Im sure it can be done, just use alfalfa instead of grain and keep a good supply of minerals on hand. This is what we do with our boar goats. We do throw in a little grain the last month before kidding and for a short while after.


----------



## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Boers and Dairy are very different. I would not recommend trying grass / forage only with a Dairy doe.


----------



## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

Dairy or Boers can do just fine on forage only. That is what they are meant to eat. 
We feed grain to get the doe to produce more milk than she is designed to do.
My dairy buck never gets grain , only local good quality hay free choice and he is big and healthy.
Yes it would need to be very good quality hay.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

The way dairy goats have been bred to achieve a certain type, IMO it would be difficult to maintain a lactating or pregnant goat in optimal shape without supplementing with concentrates. 

Steff, your buck may never see grain, but have you ever raised working does (i.e. pregnant or lactating) on grass alone? (Not being argumentative - sincerely asking for information.)

It is imperative that we consider the genetics in our dairy animals. The breeds of goats most commonly raised for dairy have been bred to require concentrated feed to maintain health and production.

BTW - what sort of hay do you feed your buck? I'd love to be able to maintain a buck in rut without having to grain him. As soon as their hormones kick in, my boys go all skinny on me.


----------



## Birch Hill Farm (Dec 3, 2009)

Sounds to me like we need to be breeding and selecting back toward a more self sufficient goat.


----------



## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

this is one of thoughs times when you cant have your cake and eat it too, if you want an animal that will produce alot of milk for your family that you will have extra to make cheese and other home products you have to have an animal BRED to do that, and you have to FEED that animal accordingly, 

BUT if you just want a little milk here and there to suppliment what ever your doing, OR if you dont mind haveing 3 or more animals to produce the same as one of others then by all means choose an animal that wont run its self down produceing tons of milk and can survive just fine on what ever kind of feed you have available.


----------



## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Dairy breeds of goats have been bred for generations to produce LOTS of milk - WAY, WAY more milk than what is 'natural'. To maintain efficiency - productivity, prolificness, and disease resistance - they need to be kept in good body condition. With dairy does that are bred to be workaholics, the best way to do that is to offer a grain ration. 

IMO many things that are 'natural' do not apply for domesticated animals kept in a pasture. There is very little that is 'natural' about raising domesticated animals. 

If I were to try this, I would offer alfalfa pellets free choice. I would also make sure I would have several HUGE pastures to rotate between. Even then, I would not expect super high production.


----------



## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Pony said:


> The way dairy goats have been bred to achieve a certain type, IMO it would be difficult to maintain a lactating or pregnant goat in optimal shape without supplementing with concentrates.
> 
> Steff, your buck may never see grain, but have you ever raised working does (i.e. pregnant or lactating) on grass alone? (Not being argumentative - sincerely asking for information.)


It's a rather sticky situation. I believe the answer lies on the genetics. The dairy goats that we have now have, indeed, been bred to produce a quantity of milk with concentrate supplements, usually in the high-protein form of grain. This is hardly a bad thing, however, it means that an expensive input is necessary to maintain a dairy animal. If an animal is to be grassfed, one must first select an animal bred for such a purpose, and if it is a goat, there could be possible complications with convincing the animal to eat down instead of up, for therein lies their worm problem. It would be helpful to practice management intensive grazing (MIG) to maintain a healthier, more productive plant, and to control the part of the plant the animal eats, which is usually, of course, the high-energy part of the plant, the top. The tips (epical meristems) and top of the plant is exposed to more sunlight, and is therefore photosynthesizing at a faster rate than the lower portions of the plant, which recieve less solar energy. MIG would ensure that the animal received only the energy-dense parts of the plant, and therefore it could become possible to have a reasonably well producing animal with no expensive grain inputs. Though, of course, more inputs will have to be directed to the soil instead of the animal, for the animal will need to consume somewhat more forage.
~Ted


----------



## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

mygoat said:


> If I were to try this, I would offer alfalfa pellets free choice. I would also make sure I would have several HUGE pastures to rotate between. Even then, I would not expect super high production.


The best choice is actually many small pastures. The smaller and quicker the move, the more productive the pasture becomes and the more high-energy food the animal can eat. Large pastures cannot be managed as tightly, and wouldn't suit a dairy animal as well, for they will be allowed to re-eat. They will go over to one tasty area, and eat it all. The will go to another reasonably tasty area, and in a small while, they will go back over to the tastier area and prune the already short grass down even further, and again, and again, the result being that the root system and the plant cannot recover, and that the high-energy places will not prosper and the other areas will become overgrown and also less productive. Thus the animal will not receive good nutrition and the plant cannot recover, the root system recedes and erosion could become a potential problem if the plant recedes far enough.
I don't mean to critique anyone's work, and this is simply reiterations of information that I have read from reliable sources, as well as information I have seen work.
~Ted


----------



## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

I've sorta done that. Last summer, I ran out of hay and could not get any more for a few months. The girls were on pasture only. Well,...they did get grain on the stand. I only have two does, but I got 3/4 gal per milking from the one that was 1 1/2 years fresh and almost 1 gal a day from the other, although she's never been a great producer. I did notice, though, that the butterfat went down to almost nothing. I think it would depend on the goat and the pasture available.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

It looks like you'll either do the work of intensively farming the pastures, or growing grain for the goats.

Further research indicates that breeds like the Toggenberg do well on just pasture. Don't see my Nubian or Snubians doing well on just grass, no matter how intensively I feed/monitor the pasture.


----------



## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

The question is not a simple black and white answer. The types of forage and the nutrients present also make a difference. Milk production is always tied to protein intake. However, also keep in mind that just pure grains are not high in protein.. or not high enough to aid in milk production that much. If you are feeding a feed to increase milk production, it must be good quality and have a high enough protein. Most corn today has only about 7% protein. Many grasses and forages can contain as much protein as grain. 

I only feed hay when the goats are in the pen for a couple months in the winter while kidding. The others are on pasture 24/7. The bucks get NO grain... only pasture or hay if they are penned up (when I don't want does bred). My bucks on pasture always look fat. The does on pasture always look fat. 

If i have bred does, they do get a very small ration of grain each evening when they come into a pen.... but then they are free to go back out. The does with kids also get a very small grain ration. However, the ones that I am hand milking will get a decent ration. To the does that I hand milk, while they are in lactation, I feed a very high quality feed at the rate of 1 pound of feed for every 3 pounds of milk produced.

A lot of it depends on they types of grass/hay/forage available.


----------



## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

it can be done. You will experience much less production. 
But even with really good forage an energy source (such as grain) can really help the girls out.

This explains how it works for cows and they are similar.
http://www.extension.org/article/24980

or summed up



> High quality pasture that often exceeds the animal's protein requirement without any supplemental energy will result in excess nitrogen being excreted&#8212;an energy drain on the cow. Often a small amount of fermentable energy (for example molasses or finely ground corn or barley) as a supplement can make a large impact on rumen efficiency, and increase production and/or body weight gain.


----------



## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

Pony said:


> Steff, your buck may never see grain, but have you ever raised working does (i.e. pregnant or lactating) on grass alone? (Not being argumentative - sincerely asking for information
> 
> BTW - what sort of hay do you feed your buck? I'd love to be able to maintain a buck in rut without having to grain him. As soon as their hormones kick in, my boys go all skinny on me.


My point was it can be done but the production will drop down to that of a pastured Boer. They mostly are grain free, carry twins and have milk enough for the kids. I am sure many of them have extra milk.
As for my hay it gets tested field by field, cutting by cutting. Right now I am feeding 10% moisture and 24% protein, grass hay no alfalfa. I have the rest of the report in the tuck.


----------



## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

Many other countries do this. I do not know what size or type of forage area they have but it can be done.


----------



## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

it all boils down to how much milk do you want, do you want enough milk to raise the kids that are on the doe or do you want enough milk for them AND your use for all the milk products you want to make? its as simple as that really, yes a goat can eat just hay and forage and produce enough milk for their kids and MAYBE a little extra here and there for you to steel but you wont be haveing milk with your cerial every morning or makeing any cheese to speak of,


----------



## Bfly Farmer (Aug 8, 2006)

We run a mainly pastured raised operation. We use rotational grazing, haylage, alfalfa, high quality mineral, and bolusing (2-3 times a year) in order to maintain condition and milk quality/quantify. Grain is only given as a treat.

As those previously have stated, it really depends on the quality/amount of pasture, genetics, and your expectations. Our commercial herd is comprised of San Clementes which have not be improved like the traditional dairy breeds. Also, we breed/cull heavily for those who do well on pasture only.

For our farm, it has worked well, but we knew this was our goal and planned accordingly. I can easily see where it would not suit others. You need to weigh the pros and cons for yourself.

Good luck!


----------



## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Birch Hill Farm said:


> Sounds to me like we need to be breeding and selecting back toward a more self sufficient goat.


:clap:


----------



## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Birch Hill Farm said:


> Sounds to me like we need to be breeding and selecting back toward a more self sufficient goat.


You can have a self-sufficient goat - OR - you can have a gallon of milk a day for 10 months or more- OR - you can spend a lot of time and effort improving and rotating pastures and making halage and growing alfalfa so that technically your goats are "grass fed only" (you still won't get a gallon a day for 10 month lactation)

But as far as a "self-sufficient goat" in that you can put her in your 1 acre field and bring her in and milk her twice a day for 10 months and have all the milk you can drink, plus make a little cheese, plus feed her kids and she does it until right before she kids again? Not happening. 

Not trying to be mean or rain on someone's parade. But that's a lot to ask from an animal and there's no way they can do it. I also can't have a horse who can herd cattle 10 hours a day in the high country, throw a different saddle on him and win the Kentucky Derby. It's why we have different breeds, because some are strong in the areas others are weak in - but nobody's strong in everything.


----------



## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Bfly Farmer said:


> We run a mainly pastured raised operation. We use rotational grazing, haylage, alfalfa, high quality mineral, and bolusing (2-3 times a year) in order to maintain condition and milk quality/quantify. Grain is only given as a treat.
> 
> As those previously have stated, it really depends on the quality/amount of pasture, genetics, and your expectations. Our commercial herd is comprised of San Clementes which have not be improved like the traditional dairy breeds. Also, we breed/cull heavily for those who do well on pasture only.
> 
> ...


Yes the San Clementes are those wild goats that were recently taken off of an Island...they are supposedly pretty rare but my guess is that those would be the best breed for 'forage only'. As the OP has expressed that he is not interested in maximum milk production, keeping san clementes on well maintained pasture might be the answer??:shrug:


----------



## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

> You can have a self-sufficient goat - OR - you can have a gallon of milk a day for 10 months or more- OR - you can spend a lot of time and effort improving and rotating pastures and making halage and growing alfalfa so that technically your goats are "grass fed only" (you still won't get a gallon a day for 10 month lactation)


Exactly - YOU WILL not breed a grass fed only goat that produces enough to be worth you while.


----------



## madness (Dec 6, 2006)

I thought about this awhile back and actually found some real research on the idea from Langston University.

http://www.luresext.edu/goats/library/field/hart02.pdf

The conclusion was that the grain did increase milk production but not dramatically. I was surprised. I think this is an ongoing study (it was 2 years when this was published) but I haven't found an update yet.


----------



## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

We have compared the costs of grain feeding and grass feeding, and even with the lowered production, it would be relatively easy to make the same or more money with grass feeding. There is also the fact that the milk will likely contain more CLA, a potent anti-carcinogen. Though compared to the output level per amount of body mass, the additional level of grain could cause a more productive level per amount of input, i.e., more output per input. Of course, if the same principle is applied to grassfeeding, the lowered input which results in somewhat lower production would result in a more profitable arrangement.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Heritagefarm said:


> We have compared the costs of grain feeding and grass feeding, and even with the lowered production, it would be relatively easy to make the same or more money with grass feeding. There is also the fact that the milk will likely contain more CLA, a potent anti-carcinogen. Though compared to the output level per amount of body mass, the additional level of grain could cause a more productive level per amount of input, i.e., more output per input. Of course, if the same principle is applied to grassfeeding, the lowered input which results in somewhat lower production would result in a more profitable arrangement.


Have you figured in the time/expense of getting the pasture up to snuff so that it will meet the minimum requirements for basic herd maintenance? And at what point will you be able to maintain a pregnant or lactating doe in optimal health on pasture alone?

My first concern is the health of my animals; a very close second is production. I know that the soil around here would take a few seasons of work before it produces the sort of nutrient-rich feed my heavy-bred dairy girls require.

While it's always a good idea to feed the soil and get it into top-notch shape, I'm not about to sacrifice health and production in the meantime.


----------



## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

And also keep the genetic predisposition of your individual animals in mind. As Pony and others pointed out - if the girls you have are bred for heavy production, yes, they will adjust production down if their optimum nutritional requirements aren't met - but not to a level that is healthy for them. 
They will "milk off their backs". Their bodies will rob them of resources to meet what their genes tell them is needed for their baby's survival. Because basically that's what milk is and it is basic survival to keep the offspring alive.

Even in humans. My grandmother assumed she'd loose a tooth per pregnancy. Her body needed calcium and "stole" it from her bones. We have access now to better nutrition and a better understanding of the stresses of pregnancy and lactation. If you have a doe that is bred for high performance - that gallon a day - and you put her out on pasture, maybe you think, "well ok. I'm getting a half gallon a day and that's all I _need_ and I'm not spending on feed." But your doe has singletons, rough labors and succumbs to milk fever at age 7 - besides the moral viewpoint, what has that really done to your bottom line?

If you want low input and understand that you will not have maximum output, be sure to get goats that will thrive in that system. Which are not the does bred for high milk production.
Sadly, too many people call goats that will thrive under the low-input, lower-output system "scrub" or "brush" goats and there's a stigma attached. But they're the ones you need to make it work with happy, healthy goats. 
But they are out there, lots of them, you don't have to hunt down rare, island goats. Your everyday PygmyNubianBoerAlpineSpanishX will work fine.


----------



## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Pony said:


> Have you figured in the time/expense of getting the pasture up to snuff so that it will meet the minimum requirements for basic herd maintenance? And at what point will you be able to maintain a pregnant or lactating doe in optimal health on pasture alone?
> 
> My first concern is the health of my animals; a very close second is production. I know that the soil around here would take a few seasons of work before it produces the sort of nutrient-rich feed my heavy-bred dairy girls require.
> 
> While it's always a good idea to feed the soil and get it into top-notch shape, I'm not about to sacrifice health and production in the meantime.


Absolutely, absolutely. I understand your concerns perfectly, for they are indeed concerns around here. You see so many junipers (the ones called cedars) and that broomsedge, which represent poor, acidic soil. We tried the 100% grassfed on our land, pght, forget that, it will take several years before our land is up to par to sustain 100% grassfed. Now, once the soil is nourished back into health, like an ill kid, it will be fully capable of supporting lactating and pregant animals with proper genetics and managment. Most cows are bred for grain supplement; stick them on 100% pasture and they don't thrive. Dairy goats bred on high grain inputs and pampered to death will also not fare well in such a situation.


----------



## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Otter said:


> Sadly, too many people call goats that will thrive under the low-input, lower-output system "scrub" or "brush" goats and there's a stigma attached. But they're the ones you need to make it work with happy, healthy goats.
> But they are out there, lots of them, you don't have to hunt down rare, island goats. Your everyday PygmyNubianBoerAlpineSpanishX will work fine.


A meat cross goat like that would give you squat for milk. Too many people think grass-fed animals is an impossibility and have good production; it is.


----------



## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

I think the best option for pasture based milk is a dexter or other dual purpose cow . . .


----------



## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

I don't give my Nigerian Dwarf does grain - they do get alfalfa pellets, minerals and whatever they browse in the pasture. Their milk productions would easily earn them milking stars. (Something I plan to do this year.)

An article comparing grass fed to grain fed production, etc...
http://www2.luresext.edu/goats/library/field/hart02.html



> In conclusion, dairy goats on pasture can have acceptable levels of milk production with some minor changes in milk composition, especially where grain supplementation is absent. Grazing dairy goats requires additional management demands, especially for the pasture. In areas with quite dry summers, irrigation may be necessary to insure an uninterrupted supply of forage. Internal parasites need to be monitored and controlled. For the production of organic milk or high milk high in conjugated linoleic acid, goats may produce significant levels of milk from high quality pasture alone. Pasture may offer potential for producing cheese with unique flavors.


And another article on how to set up a grazing system for goats: http://www.sweetlix.com/media/documents/articles/Goat_007.pdf


----------



## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

why is feeding grain equated with not being self sufficient?
Half an acre of grain has lots of possibilities.

and with the pasture recommended in that university pdf you will be buying in lots of annual grass seed any way like annual lespedeza and cow peas.

there is a vast difference in managed grazing for production and just turning them out in whatever is available


----------



## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Heritagefarm said:


> A meat cross goat like that would give you squat for milk.


LOL, I didn't mean an _actual_ cross like that. I meant that no one wants to say to a buyer "Uh, I don't know what kind it is. We just kept the ones we like that do ok here." so if it is chunky with floppy ears they call it a BoerX, lean and floppy a NubianX, gray with horns it's a PygmyX, etc. 
The goat is no such thing. 
Like your average ShepherdX at the pound, it comes from _many_ generations who's "mother's never married" But (unintentionally perhaps) those are the goats who've been selected to thrive with low input. But go out and try to buy goats who are "just mutts who do fine with just pasture". You can't find them. People want to call them at least part of _some_ breed.


----------



## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

You can raise on just pasture... If 

you have lush pasture 10+ months a year while they are milking.
you have the ability to get top shelf hay.
you manage them heavily and cull hard keeping your numbers down to what can easily be maintained.

Most of us fail in the above in some regard. Grain is the crutch that cures many feeding ills. Also the fact is top quality hay will cost you more than cheap hay and a bit of grain. Here hay is very cheap... like 3 dollars a bale for good stuff. But 2-3 pounds of grain is cheap too. like 30 cents or so. I could feed a half a bale and 5 pounds of grain or a whole bale... which is cheaper? You tell me.


----------



## arcticow (Oct 8, 2006)

I would advise going back and reading some of the records for milk in Britian during the late 1930's and WW2. Most of these were made on pasture, hay and root crops. Not much grain was fed, except as oat hay. Very respectable milk production, IMHO.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

arcticow said:


> I would advise going back and reading some of the records for milk in Britian during the late 1930's and WW2. Most of these were made on pasture, hay and root crops. Not much grain was fed, except as oat hay. Very respectable milk production, IMHO.


Root crops.

That would be in addition to hay, so not JUST hay, right?

I intend to plant mangel and other root crops this year. Got a much better idea of how to feed it after watching Edwardian Farm.


----------



## arcticow (Oct 8, 2006)

In addition to hay, and pasture or cut green feed. Grain was either too expensive, or rationed into the latter war years. Now, if someone would start building root choppers again...


----------

