# Are meat shortages next after TP?



## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

After the initial grocery runs in which most everything disappeared, most stores near me have been able to keep pork, chicken and beef in the coolers. Most are limited on how much you can buy but it is available.

With the news stories coming out about processing plants shutting down and millions of chickens being "depopulated" and disposed of, I am glad my freezer is fairly well stocked. 

What is happening near you with meat supplies in stores?

https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/delaware-chicken-company-attendance-kill-chickens-coronavirus

And 

https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/me...ing-plants-shuttered-by-coronavirus/19056304/


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

no hamburger meat this morning. lots of roasts .chicken and anything else you could name.my son wanted hamburger. he did say something about the meat plants shutting down. he makes his own from venison but just wanted something different. i bought jamison ground pork. spicy instead. ~Georgia


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

newfieannie said:


> no hamburger meat this morning. lots of roasts .chicken and anything else you could name.my son wanted hamburger. he did say something about the meat plants shutting down. he makes his own from venison but just wanted something different. i bought jamison ground pork. spicy instead. ~Georgia


A lot of meat and fish have been dumped because no good market for it. Yesterday watched a vidio of some farmers in the south discing up spring planting because no market for it. Wholesalers and retailers are importing to much farm products from Mexico and othr countries at a reduced price.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

newfieannie said:


> no hamburger meat this morning. lots of roasts .chicken and anything else you could name.my son wanted hamburger. he did say something about the meat plants shutting down. he makes his own from venison but just wanted something different. i bought jamison ground pork. spicy instead. ~Georgia


Alberta had meat inspectors infected and now 3 plants are closed for cleaning. We just discussed who would be affected and one of our drivers, who hauled meat for years indicated the Maritime provinces would feel it soon. 

Add panic shopping and things should get messy here fairly quickly.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Meat supplies are definitely lower here lately, and much more expensive. Chicken has doubled per pound, and husband said beef was too expensive yesterday although I don't have numbers (if he says it's too expensive it's probably skyrocketed, that man loves his beef and has always been willing to spend more on it than I am). I haven't checked for pork in awhile since I do have quite a bit of that frozen.

We spent our morning dog walk today talking about what else I could throw in my almost full garden because it's already looking a bit scary around this urban area. Everything is really hit or miss at this point.

*edit, and on top of that, of my 4 adult chickens, one has never laid an egg, one has decided to go broody this week, another has laid two membrane-only eggs (normal one today thank goodness). So I have one chicken laying every other day and we couldn't find eggs at either of the 3 stores he ran into yesterday. I'm putting a lot of mental pressure on our three month old pullets lately.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The mega processors have closed some plants

This is another reason we need small processors


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

newfieannie said:


> *no hamburger* meat this morning. *lots of roasts*


We buy chuck roasts when they are on sale and grind them ourselves.
It's cheaper and the meat has less fat.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i never thought of that! Thanks! i don't eat hamburger so it was for my son but he has his own grinder. i do believe i already have a roast in one of the freezers so i'll give that to him for hamburger. ~Georgia


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

It doesn't take a shortage to cause a shortage.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

A hog processing facility in south central Michigan ships out 1.5 million pounds of pork, daily. Still operating, but easy to see when a few places of that size close, it effects the food chain.
We'd have more local slaughter facilities if more people would get their meat there.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

The hog processing plant in our town puts out 16,000 hogs per day. Another one 20 miles away processes 12,000 daily. They are both still going strong.

We've got enough meat in the freezer to last for a least a year. I was more worried about TP


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

My neighbor complained the deer always destroyed his garden. Deer have never bothered mine, but squirrels and raccoons are a big problem.

We decided if the lock down lasts long enough, we might be eating deer, squirrel, and raccoon.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

At the market today specifically to buy meat to can. Top of the list - boneless, skinless chicken thighs - not one to be found in 3 markets, not one. Beef has gone up a lot here, but we hardly ever eat it. We prefer pork and chicken. We've got meat birds coming so eventually, we'll have chicken covered. Several of the meat market/butchers are no longer taking retail orders for freezer pack meat. One still is - and we'll probably order a half hog from them. We don't like their cure, so we'll take it all fresh and make our own sausage and bacon.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

We will be putting half a beef in the freezer soon, so no matter what is or isn't in the store, we will eat meat. The panic buying seems to be slowing down. I made one trip to Sam's where they had been wiped out of fresh meat, but the last time at Sam's and Hy Vee the meat cases were full.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> The mega processors have closed some plants
> 
> This is another reason we need small processors


I agree. The mega processors have a long history of recalls on meat. I usually head over to the local butcher shop but they've switched to curb side delivery only and I'm about 35 miles outside the curb side delivery radius.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

we have at least two smallish meat processors close to us.
One is only ten miles away, the other is about 25 miles.
the closest one raises their own cows. 
IDK about the other one. but they are advertising on TV every day..
My brother goes somewhere and buys Bison. I have to check that out.
We have not had any problem with getting anything we need from the grocers.. 
Today at Aldy's they had a limit of how many people were allowed in the store. and some items were 4 can limits.. 
We have lots of food in 3 large freezers. plus two refrigerators with freezers in the bottom..
t.p. has not been a problem around here. there is a paper mill near Green Bay Wisc running 24/7. I always has been .. Also a paper mill on the Wisconsin River in Mosinee, Wi. they do mostly paper towels..


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> I agree. The mega processors have a long history of recalls on meat. I usually head over to the local butcher shop but they've switched to curb side delivery only and I'm about 35 miles outside the curb side delivery radius.


Over 90% of our beef comes from one of four mega processors. Each processor processes 30,000 head per day.

We need small local processors with retail outlets.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Mish said:


> *edit, and on top of that, of my 4 adult chickens, one has never laid an egg, one has decided to go broody this week, another has laid two membrane-only eggs (normal one today thank goodness). So I have one chicken laying every other day and we couldn't find eggs at either of the 3 stores he ran into yesterday. I'm putting a lot of mental pressure on our three month old pullets lately.


We free-range a small flock, and take whatever predator losses we have on the chin. Normally it’s just one lost here and there, maybe once a month.

Coming out of winter, we had 4 hens and 2 roosters left (weird dynamic we had from an unplanned hatch last spring). At the beginning of the panic, we lost them all in the span of a week.

I saw a fox carrying one across the front yard, about 125 yards away. Shot at it and missed with my pistol. Then, when we were down to one last rooster, I heard him yelling, and went out on the front porch. He came running around the side of the house, being chased by the fox. By the time I shouldered my rifle, the fox saw me and ducked back into the woods.

We’ve now got 8 pullets outside (closed run), and 6 straight-runs in a bin in the basement, but it’s going to be several months before we have eggs again.

Fortunately, those four hens were strong layers, and each still laid an egg a day throughout the winter, so we had a pretty good stash. Once they were gone, we scrambled and froze all the eggs we had left. We’ll end up having to buy some eggs this summer, but the pullets should start laying shortly after that- if I can find and kill that fox.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

We've been buying all our meat from a locally sourced butcher shop. They haven't always had chicken (it's one of the few things not 100% local) since NY in Pause, but everything else is usually stocked.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The only shortages we have experienced in the past six months are thought shortages, no others.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

A lot of that commercial meat is not organic.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I might have to feed out a couple of steers...


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> A lot of that commercial meat is not organic.


So what?
It's what the majority of the world eats.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> We free-range a small flock, and take whatever predator losses we have on the chin. Normally it’s just one lost here and there, maybe once a month.
> 
> Coming out of winter, we had 4 hens and 2 roosters left (weird dynamic we had from an unplanned hatch last spring). At the beginning of the panic, we lost them all in the span of a week.
> 
> ...


Oh man, that is awful! I hope you find that little jerk and give him what for.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

barnbilder said:


> The only shortages we have experienced in the past six months are thought shortages, no others.


No that is not actually true. Maybe take a reality trip to a store


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Generally, I avoid Smithfield factory-farm meat anyway. I will take a road-kill or hunting-kill deer any day. Might raise some meat chickens this year again - some more normal type (not Cornish X franken chickens) that will actually feed on natural foods.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Yesterday there was more meat in the store than I have seen in a long time. I bought cold cuts and ground beef. Still have pork and chicken in the freezer. 
Most meat shortages will be temporary, just like toilet paper was. If not, we have plenty of stray cats running around.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> Yesterday there was more meat in the store than I have seen in a long time. I bought cold cuts and ground beef. Still have pork and chicken in the freezer.
> Most meat shortages will be temporary, just like toilet paper was. If not, we have plenty of stray cats running around.


I hope you're right, but I still haven't seen toilet paper in the stores around here (other than a couple packs at a drug store a few weeks ago). The paper goods aisles are still pretty empty around here, and I still haven't found flour, eggs are very hit or miss (which is odd because we live in a huge factory egg producing area). Now other things are starting to be in short supply, like meat, which is just fueling people grabbing more than they really need because the other stuff hasn't shown back up yet and understandably people are getting worried.

At least in my immediate vicinity, things are nowhere near back to normal in the stores and it seems to be spreading to other items.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Danaus29 said:


> Yesterday there was more meat in the store than I have seen in a long time. I bought cold cuts and ground beef. Still have pork and chicken in the freezer.
> Most meat shortages will be temporary, just like toilet paper was. If not, we have plenty of stray cats running around.


I'm glad it has improved near you. We currently have meats. Toilet paper sightings are reported like big foot sightings. They happen but by the time anyone gets there, it's gone.

ETA- As for the cats, I've never been a big fan of Chinese food but when you're hungry, what the hell!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

keenataz said:


> No that is not actually true. Maybe take a reality trip to a store


I think that a lot depends on region and the actual store. My sister in Calgary has seen less shortages than I have 30 miles outside the city but deliveries come from the warehouses to stores in order of relevance. Our community is smaller so we can expect smaller deliveries and items in short supply will be be delivered in smaller quantities to smaller centres. 

I also noticed a huge shift in shopping habits. Store bought bakery items are sitting on shelves but baking supplies are suddenly very popular. Baking makes sense to me because it's an easy way to keep kids busy and teach them about fractions. 

People are making more casseroles to stretch their grocery budget and many are trying budget savers that many of our parents used. I've been told that tuna noodle casserole and that nasty salmon loaf my mother's generation made are seeing a resurgance and with kids home from school, standard lunch supplies have taken a hard shift. 

Oddly enough, oatmeal seems to be something nobody seems too interested in convincing their kids that oatmeal or cream of wheat are a healthy substitute for sugary breakfast cereal.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i suspect that's what will happen to the flour also. i called this morning and he said there were 10 bags on the shelf. that was 10 AM but i can't take a chance until tomorrow at 7 . likely nothing left. ~Georgia


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i noticed the same thing. plenty oats and cream of wheat.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

newfieannie said:


> i suspect that's what will happen to the flour also. i called this morning and he said there were 10 bags on the shelf. that was 10 AM but i can't take a chance until tomorrow at 7 . likely nothing left. ~Georgia


We've had problems finding flour for a while but I seems to have sorted out to a certain degree. With all the restaurants and pizza places shut down except for takeout, there is a huge surplus of 25kg bags of flour and not much in the way of smaller sizes.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

wr said:


> We've had problems finding flour for a while but I seems to have sorted out to a certain degree. With all the restaurants and pizza places shut down except for takeout, there is a huge surplus of 25kg bags of flour and not much in the way of smaller sizes.


It has taken longer than I had hoped for the restaurant supply chain to feed into the supermarket supply chain. Though most shortages around here have been short lived. I know now that I need to double certain key stocks, not because I don't have enough; because others that I care about apparently don't have or keep anything on hand.


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

Went to the nearest BJ's this AM, beef cuts other than steaks were non-existent. They had a sign up that requested you take no more than 2 packages of chicken and where the hot dogs normally were was just empty shelves. Didn't bother to look at the packaged sandwich meat.
Glad I didn't really need anything in that section of the store.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

HDRider said:


> Over 90% of our beef comes from one of four mega processors. Each processor processes 30,000 head per day.
> 
> We need small local processors with retail outlets.


They are out there, but might have to drive some. Or pay shipping. Look up Burgers or Kurzweils for pork products.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MO_cows said:


> They are out there, but might have to drive some. Or pay shipping. Look up Burgers or Kurzweils for pork products.


I know they are out there. And, they are far. And they are getting fewer.

The fact remains, beef producers like myself, are at an unfair position considering the market hold the four mega processors have.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Is there no local market for your beef?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Those that are having problems with oatmeal for breakfast just need to make some oatmeal cookies. They taste fine at breakfast, yum.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> I know they are out there. And, they are far. And they are getting fewer.
> 
> The fact remains, beef producers like myself, are at an unfair position considering the market hold the four mega processors have.


What’s the advantage: cost or regulation?


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## alida (Feb 8, 2015)

One of my local grocery stores has started selling boxes of frozen chicken pieces, 10-15 lbs per box, from a local, big processor, that are usually sold to restaurants and commercial institutions.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Redlands Okie said:


> Those that are having problems with oatmeal for breakfast just need to make some oatmeal cookies. They taste fine at breakfast, yum.


NOW we're talkin'! And put raisins in 'em!


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## Ms GJ (Mar 26, 2020)

TripleD said:


> I might have to feed out a couple of steers...





nchobbyfarm said:


> I'm glad it has improved near you. We currently have meats. Toilet paper sightings are reported like big foot sightings. They happen but by the time anyone gets there, it's gone.
> 
> ETA- As for the cats, I've never been a big fan of Chinese food but when you're hungry, what the hell!


Actually, I understand from my BUTCHER,(yes,my little independent store here in Colorado,) he said BEEF is not getting processed and even with plenty standing, in the field that it will double the price at 30% of the availability. Raising your own will take several months plus you need a guy to slaughter and a butcher to cut and wrap.They are getting hard to find,


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

not everybody has to have somebody else butcher a cow.
My wife told me about a group of farmers who are going together and processing their cattle and selling direct to consumers..


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

I make a phone call and a hog is butchered the way I want, then I pick it up.
It was $1.63 a lb last time for hog and processing.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> not everybody has to have somebody else butcher a cow.
> My wife told me about a group of farmers who are going together and processing their cattle and selling direct to consumers..


I'm not sure about US regulations but in Canada, our meat has to be inspected before we can legally sell direct to a consumer and right now, meat inspectors are part of our problem. We've had three major processing facilities shut down because employees were infected and we currently have meat inspectors down with the virus as well.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

In the US we have to USDA inspect anything for retail sale, and state inspect anything for direct sale. Paying facilities to do so necessitates a much higher price mark-up to retain profit status. The large facilities that deal with volume absorb such costs more easily and are able to substantially undercut farmers trying to market direct to consumer. Yet another example of how regulations make it nearly impossible to operate as a farmer. To make a living, pay insurance, property taxes, upkeep of infrastructure, put away anything for retirement, and pay for tools, equipment, fertilizer, brood stock, etc. a farmer needs to operate at a certain scale. With four beef processors dominating the market commercially, there is little to do to besides offload those kind of numbers for whatever they will pay. You can do off farm sales direct to consumer, but you are going to have to have a lot of freezer space (enough for about fifty steers) or charge $1088.19 a pound. (I've done the math.)


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

I have a freezer still with about 50 pounds of beef, 40 pounds of chicken and 40 pounds of pork in it. I also have about 1200 pounds of beef and and 1600 pounds of pork on the hoof and my egg man knows when he slaughters some of his flock I always take some as he also gets some of my on the hoof beef and pork after it has been slaughtered and processed.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

Saw this near me - Texas Roadhouse Restaurant is apparently continuing to buy from suppliers or wherever and then creating a drive up/through Farmer's Market and selling boxes of fresh produce. They are also selling their steaks as 'ready to cook' in addition to their carry out cooked meals.
https://www.wcpo.com/open/milford-s...s-and-vegetables-at-drive-thru-farmers-market

Seems to me, once the panic settles people with good ideas will begin to find ways to put new options in motion. Shut down doesn't need to mean shut out, people are creative.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> What’s the advantage: cost or regulation?


Smaller processors do not have the scale to bear the cost of all the regulations to process meat for retail sale.

Each of the big four process almost 30,000 head of cattle per day. Each.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I heard the Gov of South Dakota refused to put the state on lock down.
This lead to the rampant spread of the virus.
This lead to the meat plant workers becoming infected.
This caused meat processors to close.
This was caused by people wanting to spread the virus at will.
This is why you will be out of meat come fall.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SRSLADE said:


> I heard the Gov of South Dakota refused to put the state on lock down.
> This lead to the rampant spread of the virus.
> This lead to the meat plant workers becoming infected.
> This caused meat processors to close.
> ...


I heard pretty much the same thing. The rate of infection could double by the beginning of next week.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The Governor should have considered that Smithfield is Chinese owned and maybe has many Chinese visitors.

Smithfield-related cases make up roughly half of South Dakota's total case count

South Dakota is one of the least densely populated states, with only four states less dense

https://www.ntd.com/pork-plant-at-c...ak-had-visit-from-ccp-tied-owners_456031.html


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

SRSLADE said:


> I heard the Gov of South Dakota refused to put the state on lock down.
> This lead to the rampant spread of the virus.
> This lead to the meat plant workers becoming infected.
> This caused meat processors to close.
> ...


That is not completely accurate. The governor of South Dakota is facing acute media scrutiny at this time, mainly for political reasons. Not all meat is processed in South Dakota. The Smithfield plant, owned by primarily Chinese interests, is responsible for most cases in South Dakota. South Dakota, a big place, has many areas mildly affected, and the governor wisely allowed her localities to tailor quarantine response to their community. The main reason for the coming meat shortages for consumers who made poor life choices causing them to need to buy meat at the store, are the other packers, or in some cases their unions, using what happened at SD Smithfield to either strike, or just stay home and draw easily obtained unemployment/stimulus money. This is the price some people will have to pay for enabling a very limited number of meat processing facilities to exist, and for those facilities to be controlled by foreign interests that serve as major disease transmission corridors from impoverished, overpopulated, third world communist countries that like to play with zoonotic viruses in labs with sketchy biosecurity protocol.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

In south Dakota, "stay at home except for obtaining essential items" could mean a 300 mile round trip commute for some residents. Considering "rampant spread" "doubling" is based on 1000 cases now, 750 something related to the smithfield plant, it's not a huge problem for the state. The hospitilization rate is low, and they are in no real threat of overwhelming their hospitals.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Time will tell and I wish the best to the people of South Dakota.
Looks like they will need it.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Ms GJ said:


> Actually, I understand from my BUTCHER,(yes,my little independent store here in Colorado,) he said BEEF is not getting processed and even with plenty standing, in the field that it will double the price at 30% of the availability. Raising your own will take several months plus you need a guy to slaughter and a butcher to cut and wrap.They are getting hard to find,


I have my own equipment and cooler. If I can do a 500lb sow I can handle a steer...


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

TripleD said:


> I have my own equipment and cooler. If I can do a 500lb sow I can handle a steer...


It is easier for me to butcher a Steer then my large Hogs.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Around here, beef and chicken are mostly gone. Stocks of pork are low. However, I can buy all the lamb I want. No one seems to be buying fish either. Luckily I have lots of beef in the freezer from employee appreciation week at my husband’s work (huge discounts for employees), I can live without bacon (grudgingly) and I love lamb so we’re all set for meat. If I could cook fish worth a darn I would get some.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> Around here, beef and chicken are mostly gone. Stocks of pork are low. However, I can buy all the lamb I want. No one seems to be buying fish either. Luckily I have lots of beef in the freezer from employee appreciation week at my husband’s work (huge discounts for employees), I can live without bacon (grudgingly) and I love lamb so we’re all set for meat. If I could cook fish worth a darn I would get some.


Not sure what kind of fish you would have. 

Almost any fish is good seasoned, maybe a little corn meal, and sautéed is good.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Not sure what kind of fish you would have.
> 
> Almost any fish is good seasoned, maybe a little corn meal, and sautéed is good.


Not when I’m cooking it it isn’t. For some reason I just can’t get it right unless I am frying it. Unfortunately, I can’t eat fried foods anymore without becoming ill. There are only three things I absolutely cannot get right, gravy, biscuits and fish.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

TripleD said:


> I have my own equipment and cooler. If I can do a 500lb sow I can handle a steer...


We brought in some American Guinea Hogs. About 160lb filled out. They are to me, the Dexter of pigs. Not as much meat as a full sizer but easier to manage and easier to butcher.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> Around here, beef and chicken are mostly gone. Stocks of pork are low. However, I can buy all the lamb I want. No one seems to be buying fish either. Luckily I have lots of beef in the freezer from employee appreciation week at my husband’s work (huge discounts for employees), I can live without bacon (grudgingly) and I love lamb so we’re all set for meat. If I could cook fish worth a darn I would get some.


I catch all my own fish. Love fish.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

SLFarmMI said:


> Not when I’m cooking it it isn’t. For some reason I just can’t get it right unless I am frying it. Unfortunately, I can’t eat fried foods anymore without becoming ill. There are only three things I absolutely cannot get right, gravy, biscuits and fish.


Take just about any kind of fish fillet, lay it on aluminum foil on a baking pan.
Paint it with a little melted butter and season well with lemon pepper.
Bake at 375 degrees until you can easily flake it apart with a fork.
It's done, enjoy.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

101pigs said:


> I catch all my own fish. Love fish.


I love fishing. Eating fish not so much because, when I cook them, they are gross.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SLFarmMI said:


> Not when I’m cooking it it isn’t. For some reason I just can’t get it right unless I am frying it. Unfortunately, I can’t eat fried foods anymore without becoming ill. There are only three things I absolutely cannot get right, gravy, biscuits and fish.


Try grilling it over indirect heat on a soaked cedar plank. I can't cook fish in pan or in the oven and have it be edible, but grilling on a cedar plank is very forgiving.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> Not when I’m cooking it it isn’t. For some reason I just can’t get it right unless I am frying it. Unfortunately, I can’t eat fried foods anymore without becoming ill. There are only three things I absolutely cannot get right, gravy, biscuits and fish.


My three specialties.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Not when I’m cooking it it isn’t. For some reason I just can’t get it right unless I am frying it. Unfortunately, I can’t eat fried foods anymore without becoming ill. There are only three things I absolutely cannot get right, gravy, biscuits and fish.


what happens when you make gravy?


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

I could deal with the fish, but biscuits and gravy....


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

I think the secret to cooking fish is to not overcook it. The lemon pepper really helps also.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

SLFarmMI said:


> I love fishing. Eating fish not so much because, when I cook them, they are gross.


The easiest way I've found to cook fish is to lay lemon slices on it (inside if it's a whole fish), wrap in parchement paper and bake. 

The parchement paper keeps it moist, for people like me who forget that fish shouldn't be overcooked and the lemon keeps the flavour mild and eliminates any odd flavours. 

I was out of lemon the other day and cooked fish without and I swear it tasted like the bottom of somebody's aquarium.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

barnbilder said:


> That is not completely accurate. The governor of South Dakota is facing acute media scrutiny at this time, mainly for political reasons. Not all meat is processed in South Dakota. The Smithfield plant, owned by primarily Chinese interests, is responsible for most cases in South Dakota. South Dakota, a big place, has many areas mildly affected, and the governor wisely allowed her localities to tailor quarantine response to their community. The main reason for the coming meat shortages for consumers who made poor life choices causing them to need to buy meat at the store, are the other packers, or in some cases their unions, using what happened at SD Smithfield to either strike, or just stay home and draw easily obtained unemployment/stimulus money. This is the price some people will have to pay for enabling a very limited number of meat processing facilities to exist, and for those facilities to be controlled by foreign interests that serve as major disease transmission corridors from impoverished, overpopulated, third world communist countries that like to play with zoonotic viruses in labs with sketchy biosecurity protocol.


That is just plain nonsense. First what does it matter who owns the plant. And her choice was not obviously wise. And poor life choices. They live in cities. And you know the USA plays with viruses too, in sketchy labs


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

keenataz said:


> That is just plain nonsense. First what does it matter who owns the plant. And her choice was not obviously wise. And poor life choices. They live in cities. And you know the USA plays with viruses too, in sketchy labs


Which labs in the US are sketchy and play with viruses?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

That information is probably hidden so we can focus on China.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SRSLADE said:


> That information is probably hidden so we can focus on China.


So you think the mainstream media is covering up sketchy US labs?
CNN, New York Times, Washington Post?
All conspiring to cover up sketchy American virus labs?
But yet a dude from rural British Columbia knows about them.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Yes.

*Inside America's secretive biolabs*
INVESTIGATION REVEALS HUNDREDS OF ACCIDENTS, SAFETY VIOLATIONS AND NEAR MISSES PUT PEOPLE AT RISK


Alison Young and Nick Penzenstadler, USA TODAY

Published 4:16 p.m. ET May 28, 2015 | Updated 6:52 p.m. ET May 28, 2015


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

keenataz said:


> That is just plain nonsense. First what does it matter who owns the plant. And her choice was not obviously wise. And poor life choices. They live in cities. And you know the USA plays with viruses too, in sketchy labs


Linky thing please?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Sorry, I'm multitasking at the moment so I wasn't clear in my earlier post
What information were you accessing that confirms the United States is playing with viruses in sketchy labs? Thank you in advance.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

keenataz said:


> That is just plain nonsense. First what does it matter who owns the plant. And her choice was not obviously wise. And poor life choices. They live in cities. And you know the USA plays with viruses too, in sketchy labs


Being Chinese owned means frequent visits from the virus origin.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SRSLADE said:


> Yes.
> 
> *Inside America's secretive biolabs*
> INVESTIGATION REVEALS HUNDREDS OF ACCIDENTS, SAFETY VIOLATIONS AND NEAR MISSES PUT PEOPLE AT RISK
> ...


link?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Yes, I'd like to see that. I'm wondering if my little potion shack is listed.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> No that is not actually true. Maybe take a reality trip to a store


They are manufactured "shortages", mainly due to hyeteria.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> *Inside America's secretive biolabs*
> INVESTIGATION REVEALS HUNDREDS OF ACCIDENTS, SAFETY VIOLATIONS AND NEAR MISSES PUT PEOPLE AT RISK
> 
> 
> ...


Where's your link to the 5 year old story?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> That information is probably hidden so we can focus on China.


Most all nations mess virus secret and otherwise 

You trying to get this thread tossed


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Three Faces of Eve working to toss another thread


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I bet they are more secret now.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

What no linky? No proofy?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Most all nations mess virus secret and otherwise
> 
> You trying to get this thread tossed


Is that a secret coded message for toss this thread?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It is code for prove your point.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> Is that a secret coded message for toss this thread?


No secret on what you are doing


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

We were talking about meat shortages but somehow started talking about secret and mysterious labs in China.
Lets get back on topic.
How many head of cattle do you have?


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

usatoday.com/story/news/2015/05/28/biolabs-pathogens-location-incidents/26587505
This came up easy enough in google, although I haven't read it to see if it relates to the discussion...


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

anniew said:


> usatoday.com/story/news/2015/05/28/biolabs-pathogens-location-incidents/26587505
> This came up easy enough in google, although I haven't read it to see if it relates to the discussion...


good job.
And so “funny” given you couldn’t find the link clearly posted on the thread I posted yesterday.
Did you manage to find it after I circled it in red for you?
You’re welcome, by the way.


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

I did, thank you.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

anniew said:


> usatoday.com/story/news/2015/05/28/biolabs-pathogens-location-incidents/26587505
> This came up easy enough in google, although I haven't read it to see if it relates to the discussion...


Don't read it particularly the first paragraph. You may never eat meat again.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

barnbilder said:


> In south Dakota, "stay at home except for obtaining essential items" could mean a 300 mile round trip commute for some residents. Considering "rampant spread" "doubling" is based on 1000 cases now, 750 something related to the smithfield plant, it's not a huge problem for the state. The hospitilization rate is low, and they are in no real threat of overwhelming their hospitals.


Is there nothing you won't play doen about this.


Lisa in WA said:


> Which labs in the US are sketchy and play with viruses?


Kind of a prominent one

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/health/germs-fort-detrick-biohazard.html

Safety concerns at a prominent military germ lab have led the government to shut down research involving dangerous microbes like the Ebola virus.

“Research is currently on hold,” the United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, in Fort Detrick, Md., said in a statement on Friday. The shutdown is likely to last months, Caree Vander Linden, a spokeswoman, said in an interview.

The statement said the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention decided to issue a “cease and desist order” last month to halt the research at Fort Detrick because the center did not have “sufficient systems in place to decontaminate wastewater” from its highest-security labs.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Lisa in WA said:


> So you think the mainstream media is covering up sketchy US labs?
> CNN, New York Times, Washington Post?
> All conspiring to cover up sketchy American virus labs?
> But yet a dude from rural British Columbia knows about them.


No this dude from British Columbia has the ability to research and read. It's easy, try it


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

keenataz said:


> No this dude from British Columbia has the ability to research and read. It's easy, try it


Have you tried it for your own country? Or just the US?
Almost seems....xenophobic of you.
Do you ever find anything to criticize about your own country? 
you seem to hate the US.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

HDRider said:


> Being Chinese owned means frequent visits from the virus origin.


The virus was already well introduced by the time the workers got sick. It was from a result of Chinese visits they would have gotten sick much earlier.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

keenataz said:


> No this dude from British Columbia has the ability to research and read. It's easy, try it


You have dual citizenship, don't you?


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

GTX63 said:


> What no linky? No proofy?
> View attachment 86148


I did. You know Fort Derrick. Kind of major. So are you happy?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> Lets get back on topic.


OK.
Where's the link to the article you psoted?


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Lisa in WA said:


> Have you tried it for your own country? Or just the US?
> Almost seems....xenophobic of you.
> Do you ever find anything to criticize about your own country?
> you seem to hate the US.


You asked for a link to a bio lab in the US that was sketchy. I provided it. Is that a problem?

How does that indicate I hate the US? You seem a little over sensitive


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

keenataz said:


> You asked for a link to a bio lab in the US that was sketchy. I provided it. Is that a problem?
> 
> How does that indicate I hate the US? You seem a little over sensitive


Do I?
What a pity.
You do too.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Irish Pixie said:


> You have dual citizenship, don't you?


I was born is Soo Michigan to an American mother and Canadian father. My first months were in Michigan before they relocated to Canada. There was a waiting period for my mother to be able to live n Canada.
So yes. But then I get told there is no dual citizenship. So it doesn't matter to some.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

keenataz said:


> I did. You know Fort Derrick. Kind of major. So are you happy?


Are you the same person who chided another poster because he misspelled Cuomo?


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Lisa in WA said:


> Do I?
> What a pity.
> You do too.


Boy. Why did you ask or proof if you didn't want it?

You seem to be trying very hard to get me to react so this ges tossed


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> Kind of a prominent one


From your source:



> But there has been *no threat* to public health, *no injuries* to employees and *no leaks* of dangerous material outside the laboratory, Ms. Vander Linden said.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

keenataz said:


> Boy. Why did you ask or proof if you didn't want it?
> 
> You seem to be trying very hard to get me to react so this ges tossed


where did I say I didn’t want it?


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Lisa in WA said:


> Are you the same person who chided another poster because he misspelled Cuomo?


Why don't you drop it. The person I said that to knew it was a joke. Believe me I am the last person who is going to seriously chide someone over spelling and typos.

You really seem to hve an issue with me providing the proof you requested


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

keenataz said:


> Why don't you drop it. The person I said that to knew it was a joke. Believe me I am the last person who is going to seriously chide someone over spelling and typos.
> 
> You really seem to hve an issue with me providing the proof you requested


that seems smart. 
What issue do I have?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Stop. Please.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

When I read the article I posted it blew my mind as to how relevant it is to this discussion.
*Inside America's secretive biolabs -- google it*


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

keenataz said:


> The virus was already well introduced by the time the workers got sick. It was from a result of Chinese visits they would have gotten sick much earlier.


Yes Dr. Taz


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

HDRider said:


> Yes Dr. Taz


Nah, just got a tech diploma. It just makes sense. I am asuming no one from China has been in that plant the last month, so the virus could not have come from Chian directly.

But I find it disturbing that a major processing plant is owned by China. And that is not criticizing the US at all.As I am sure Canada has the same


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

wr said:


> The easiest way I've found to cook fish is to lay lemon slices on it (inside if it's a whole fish), wrap in parchement paper and bake.
> 
> The parchement paper keeps it moist, for people like me who forget that fish shouldn't be overcooked and the lemon keeps the flavour mild and eliminates any odd flavours.
> 
> I was out of lemon the other day and cooked fish without and I swear it tasted like the bottom of somebody's aquarium.


I love doing tilapia that way. I put butter and garlic inside, too - and dill!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

fffarmergirl said:


> I love doing tilapia that way. I put butter and garlic inside, too - and dill!


I often use dill as well.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Holy garbage fish from China!


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

whiterock said:


> I could deal with the fish, but biscuits and gravy....


My biscuits taste fine, they just aren’t like my MIL’s were. And, when you marry a man from Georgia, you have to get the biscuits like his mama’s. I think it’s a law or something.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> what happens when you make gravy?


Nothing good. My mother makes great gravy but apparently that gene skipped my generation.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Nothing good. My mother makes great gravy but apparently that gene skipped my generation.


Broth or stock, a fine mesh strainer and a good fat separator solved my gravy issues. I remember going nuts trying to get the lumps out when it finally dawned on me. Took me a while. 

Ditto on the potato ricer for mashed taters.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> My biscuits taste fine, they just aren’t like my MIL’s were. And, when you marry a man from Georgia, you have to get the biscuits like his mama’s. I think it’s a law or something.


It is a law, but if you got him to move to MI, you are granted amnesty


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> It is a law, but if you got him to move to MI, you are granted amnesty


I have a young friend who married a man from Arkansas and I thought she was joking when she said the marriage fell apart over biscuits.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wr said:


> I have a young friend who married a man from Arkansas and I thought she was joking when she said the marriage fell apart over biscuits.


I think trying to make biscuits outside of the south is kind of like pizza out of the northeast. I’ve lived all over the country and no one can seem to make pizza like they do in the northeast.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

GF and I make a perfect breakfast cook team. She fries up eggs and bacon or ham better than I can and she has me mix up and bake the cat head biscuits and true sawmill gravy made with yellow cornmeal not regular gravy made with flour.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Nothing good. My mother makes great gravy but apparently that gene skipped my generation.


Good gravy! There's a package for that. Although it's not really the absolute best (but I live in the north so I've probably never had real good gravy) some package gravys are pretty good. If you fry some sausage and mix the meat and some of the fat in with the package gravy it is edible. 

Same with biscuits, Popeyes and Bob Evans biscuit mixes come in a package. It's not as good as the restaurant ones but they won't kill you.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> I think trying to make biscuits outside of the south is kind of like pizza out of the northeast.


The difference with biscuits is the type of wheat used in regional flours.
(And everything is better in the South...........)
https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/southern-biscuits-taste-better-because-of-this-ingredient/


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The difference with biscuits is the type of wheat used in regional flours.
> (And everything is better in the South...........)
> https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/southern-biscuits-taste-better-because-of-this-ingredient/


Many things are but not pizza.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Irish Pixie said:


> Try grilling it over indirect heat on a soaked cedar plank. I can't cook fish in pan or in the oven and have it be edible, but grilling on a cedar plank is very forgiving.


You got me on that one. I was fully expecting to see the line about throw out the fish and eat the cedar plank.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Redlands Okie said:


> You got me on that one. I was fully expecting to see the line about throw out the fish and eat the cedar plank.


Hey, you have cooked amberjack!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> I have a young friend who married a man from Arkansas and I thought she was joking when she said the marriage fell apart over biscuits.


It wasn't the biscuits, maybe it was the cornbread.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Danaus29 said:


> Good gravy! There's a package for that. Although it's not really the absolute best (but I live in the north so I've probably never had real good gravy) some package gravys are pretty good. If you fry some sausage and mix the meat and some of the fat in with the package gravy it is edible.
> 
> Same with biscuits, Popeyes and Bob Evans biscuit mixes come in a package. It's not as good as the restaurant ones but they won't kill you.


Gravy is the absolutely easiest thing in the world to make. The secret is liking gravy. I could teach anyone to make gravy in one or two sessions.

There are many types of biscuits. Cat eye, drop, cut, crunchy, fluffy, doughy. My mother's mother made a biscuit unlike any I have ever had. Describing them, they don't sound good, but they were very, very good. They were a tall biscuit. They were almost spongy, not flaky at all. They soaked up chocolate gravy wonderfully. They made a biscuit sandwich to die for. I miss you Grandma.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

There have been no food shortages here. Oh, maybe you can't get every item on your shopping list, but there will be something good to substitute. Nobody is going hungry.

The people that are hoarding don't seem to get the concept of buying in bulk. They stripped the entire shelf of sugar of all kinds and left plenty of sugar in the bulk section. Not only the 50 pound bags, but the sugar by the pound in the drop-down bins. Same with rice. Not a grain of rice anywhere except in the bulk food section where there were plenty of 25 pound bags of rice, and beans, and pasta.

The local restaurant supply store has all the chicken you could ever want frozen in 40 pound boxes. Any kind of meat you could possibly want in the big primal cuts. Take it home, separate it into dinner size packages, and store it away.

There was a run on canned soup, but honestly, even a totally incompetent cook should be able to make soup at home.

The only thing that can not be found anywhere is hand sanitizer and the stuff to make it at home.

I wish the couple of people who can't touch a keyboard without arguing would stop. It's very unpleasant and nobody but you cares whether or not you are the only person in the world who is right. I also wish the mods would ban them for awhile so the rest of us don't have to have our discussions ruined with their unpleasantness.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Ditto


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> We free-range a small flock, and take whatever predator losses we have on the chin. Normally it’s just one lost here and there, maybe once a month.
> 
> Coming out of winter, we had 4 hens and 2 roosters left (weird dynamic we had from an unplanned hatch last spring). At the beginning of the panic, we lost them all in the span of a week.
> 
> ...


You could bait the fox and shoot it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

oregon woodsmok said:


> There have been no food shortages here. Oh, maybe you can't get every item on your shopping list, but there will be something good to substitute. Nobody is going hungry.
> 
> The people that are hoarding don't seem to get the concept of buying in bulk. They stripped the entire shelf of sugar of all kinds and left plenty of sugar in the bulk section. Not only the 50 pound bags, but the sugar by the pound in the drop-down bins. Same with rice. Not a grain of rice anywhere except in the bulk food section where there were plenty of 25 pound bags of rice, and beans, and pasta.
> 
> ...


I don't think anybody is arguing but I do think people in various regions are having very different experiences and a lot of the shortages result in a strong shift in shopping trends. 

I find those who make snippy little comments about the stupidity of urban dwellers just as offensive as you may find someone else's comments but HT hasn't invoked a vote members off the site policy yet.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> It wasn't the biscuits, maybe it was the cornbread.


Much of my family is French Canadian and cornbread aka Johnny Cake is a staple but I have a feeling mine might not meet standard in your area. 

Everytime it was served at my grandparents, my grandfather would announce that pea soup and Johnny cake, makes a Frenchman's belly ache and, butter his, pour a ton of maple syrup over it and tuck right in.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> Much of my family is French Canadian and cornbread aka Johnny Cake is a staple but I have a feeling mine might not meet standard in your area.
> 
> Everytime it was served at my grandparents, my grandfather would announce that pea soup and Johnny cake, makes a Frenchman's belly ache and, butter his, pour a ton of maple syrup over it and tuck right in.


There are different styles of cornbread here. The two biggies are sweet almost like a cake and not sweet that is thinner and more brittle. Some folks put cream style corn in there, maybe cheese, green and red peppers, onions. 

I don't really like syrup or molasses on it. It is very popular here to put butter and molasses on corn bread


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

oregon woodsmok said:


> I wish the couple of people who can't touch a keyboard without arguing would stop. It's very unpleasant and nobody but you cares whether or not you are the only person in the world who is right. I also wish the mods would ban them for awhile so the rest of us don't have to have our discussions ruined with their unpleasantness.


There's an "ignore" feature that will prevent you from seeing anything you don't want to see.
You can "ban" anyone from your own screen.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I like it with or without molasses.


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