# Forgiveness



## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

In the spirit of a new thread I would like to know your thoughts on forgiveness.

Have you experienced the need or desire to forgive?
If so, how did you?
Is having a faith in God part of the process for you?


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2012)

Sometimes you need to forgive somebody so that you, yourself can move on. Nothing to do with religion, its self preservation.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

What zong said is true.

Faith helps, and can be a good motivator. When we hold hard feelings in, it hurts us more than the other. Faith helps give focus to the forgiveness, and the reasons why, even when we dont really want to. Even at that, it aint always easy to forgive, especially in a life changing event like you experienced.

Yes, God is part of the process for me.


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

Have you experienced the need or desire to forgive?
Yes

If so, how did you?
It was not easy and took me a long time. I finally realized that the hurt and anger I was feeling was only hurting me, and those I loved around me. The person the anger was aimed at was oblivious (being hundreds of miles away) and would not have cared had they known. 

Is having a faith in God part of the process for you?
For me yes my Faith was the final step. After all, if God can forgive me the burden of anger I carried seemed petty and silly by comparison. I mean he forgave those who murdered his son. I admit i am not sure I could live up to that no matter how hard I tried to!


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

I would simply modify zong's succinct and wise statement to read that you MOSTLY need to forgive somebody so that you, yourself can move on. I also take it as an opportunity to review what my contribution may have been to the situation which requires forgiveness. I always learn from it.

A faith in God is not a part of the process for me.


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## Raven12 (Mar 5, 2011)

You need to forgive yourself. I know that sounds weird. But you need to forgive yourself for getting lost. Men have a way of moving you off center. A bad love changes you in the worst ways. Take back your life and move on.


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## Ramblin Wreck (Jun 10, 2005)

I have many shortcomings, but it seems to make my load (my guilt) lighter if I forgive those who have erred against me.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

I have a good one, but not the time to tell it now. I'll be back


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## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

I agree with all that has been said.
I do believe forgiveness is something I do for me. To be free of the hurt and move on.
I use my faith in God for help with my perspective. ( I would not call myself religious in the traditional sense but I do have a strong belief in God.

Thanks for responding folks but I am cross-eyed tired ...I gotta go to bed. I just got in from PA ......to be continued...


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

My niece asked me to watch her boys Thursday night, and I haven't heard from her since.  They're good boys.
I was going to tell you all lots of personal stuff, and all my lessons about forgiving blah, blah, blah. I'm just going to say that forgiving is the very beginning of personal growth. Because, the first step to forgiving is to bring yourself back down to the level of the forgivee. Funny enough, that is where your journey with the forgivee began. Those who don't learn to forgive learn to be stuck. Once you learn to see yourself, forgiveness is easy.
ETA; When you learn to see yourself, it ain't a pretty sight , but you can change that.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

yes

namaste

I don't forgive out of obedience to rules--that usually ends up in half-a55 forgiveness if one isn't careful. I do it because forgiveness *is* love, unforgiveness *is not* love, God *is* love. Where do I want to exist? Love. So I choose love. 

I gotta say I love the simplicity of buddhism--choose to be love, do compassion. It's all you need to know.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

wyld thang said:


> yes
> 
> namaste
> 
> ...


Yes! If you can love yourself, you can love others. Or, is it the other way around?


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

On the other hand, you could become vain and bitter and screw all that.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

vicker said:


> Yes! If you can love yourself, you can love others. Or, is it the other way around?


it's both/and. too many people try to live life either/or. haha back to the bhud.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

This is the one thing that I would give anyone, if I could give anyone anything. True story.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

roadless said:


> In the spirit of a new thread I would like to know your thoughts on forgiveness.
> 
> Have you experienced the need or desire to forgive?
> If so, how did you?
> Is having a faith in God part of the process for you?


The moment I Believed, I was Forgiven, Accepted, and Sealed for the Day of Redemption. 
Jesus paid the fee, penalty, price for my sin (death) and covered me with His Blood.
I am, forgiven.

I would like for my brother to forgive me, but he will not, and there is nothing I can do. 
I have apologized every way known to man. He is not accepting my apology, and not forgiving me. 
That's ok.
I confessed what I said was wrong. I asked for his forgiveness, and I NEVER EVER repeated that mistake/sin again.
I have done what God asks of me.
I cannot control how my brother receives it, or what he chooses to do with it. That part is not my responsibility.

I have forgiven the things my dh has done to me.
Meaning, I do not hold it against him, throw it up in his face, bring it up every chance (or at all), talk about it to others, or spend time in my own head reliving it.

However (and you knew I was going to say that:happy2

THAT DOES NOT mean, I just shove my head in the sand, and go back to the way things were.
THAT DOES NOT MEAN if he does it again, that I have to put up with it.
THAT DOES NOT MEAN it magically stops hurting me.
THAT DOES NOT MEAN I blindly trust him like I did before.
THAT DOES NOT MEAN I just skip to the lou like it never happened......

I have finally come to a place where I do not spend time in my head reliving the trauma.
I have finally come to a place where I have come to grips with 'yes, this did happen to you, it sucked, learn from it and put one foot in front of the other'.
On my mirror I have a 3 x 5 card that says:
Don't like what you see? DO SOMETHING.....MOVE!!!
I am not quite to the place where I can 'plan for the future'.
I really am living for each day, or few days out.
I treasure and cherish my kids more now than ever (and if you knew me you would think "how's that possible")
I am going to college this Jan. I hate classrooms, I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I have always had test freeze.
BUT I don't want to get caught with my 'pants down' again.
I am sucking it up and stepping out of my comfort zone.
I don't want my 'old life back'. 
Heck no.
I am cutting a NEW PATH.....

I could not have made it through without Christ.
Honestly. He would not have lived, were it not for Christ.
I promise you that.


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## BetsyK in Mich (May 14, 2002)

Mom used to say "a good person always forgives, a wise person never forgets." I took that to mean forgive a person their trespasses, but be aware so you will not have to forgive again. That has served me well through the years.


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## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

Raven12 said:


> You need to forgive yourself. I know that sounds weird. But you need to forgive yourself for getting lost. Men have a way of moving you off center. A bad love changes you in the worst ways. Take back your life and move on.


I think this is right. But it's not enough. I get it though...your perspective. A couple of edits though... 
"I know that sounds weird. But you need to forgive yourself for getting lost. *Wo*Men have a way of moving you off center. A bad love *or good love gone bad* changes you in the worst ways." 

Historically, men have been the fixers. Modern society is changing that. Not necessarily a bad thing. More like a blending of attributes that could likely be beneficial to the species. Problem is, there's a time lag between traditional and societal evolution. So *getting lost *is a big taboo to one who is evolutionarily geared to be in control. Maybe that's why some women feel that we men are skittish when it comes to trying again. IDK. I _do_ know getting lost is a confidence shaker. If your family group/tribe...whatever, gets lost it could cost lives.

I'm not downplaying the legitimate concerns of the female tribe members. Y'all know what they are. Just saying that we share alot of the same feelings, anxieties, hopes, and aspirations. Even if they aren't, always, freely tendered. 

Maybe it's just _my_ perspective but, I think, in general, men hunger for women more than women hunger for men. Because most men open up less than most women; women almost always have an outlet for sharing deeper feelings. I also believe that most men, regardless of the rough image they show to the world, are instinctively drawn to beauty, warmth, nurturing, and acceptance. You know the saying about spending 9 mos trying to get out of it and the rest of our lives trying to get back in? This may sound crass but it _is_ true.

So we have to forgive ourselves, _and_ forgive the tresspasses of others _and _CYA. Humility, honesty, patience, and discretionary forgiveness.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2012)

If I cannot forgive another human being, than I cannot expect forgiveness..if I did, then I'd be thinking of myself as superior to others..far from it!

For me, it is definitely both an intellectual as well as a spiritual thing..

"........and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us......"


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## maverickxxx (Jan 25, 2011)

I do believe in forgiving some people. It's not across the board though. Some people I can't cut outta my life n I've already dun all the forgiving I'm going to do! This last round of bs is unforgivable ( there is a reason that word was invented) so I guess really the only person in this one particular situation I'm the only one who can benefit for any forgiveness n that's for me being an idiot.


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## wildhorse (Oct 22, 2006)

I shall be the bitter old hag.I will not forgive my brother in law.I will not tolerate his advances and for the life of me I can not understand why my family expects me to..


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## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

@ wildhorse, Bull! It doesn't make you a bitter old hag to stand up for your rights. Like mav said above, it's not across the board. Why should you be willing to forgive someone for having done something that they would have no problem doing again? They have no remorse for their wrongdoing. People like that are only worthy of pity. You gotta look out for yourself.


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## Raven12 (Mar 5, 2011)

sustainabilly said:


> I think this is right. But it's not enough. I get it though...your perspective. A couple of edits though...
> "I know that sounds weird. But you need to forgive yourself for getting lost. *Wo*Men have a way of moving you off center. A bad love *or good love gone bad* changes you in the worst ways."
> 
> Historically, men have been the fixers. Modern society is changing that. Not necessarily a bad thing. More like a blending of attributes that could likely be beneficial to the species. Problem is, there's a time lag between traditional and societal evolution. So *getting lost *is a big taboo to one who is evolutionarily geared to be in control. Maybe that's why some women feel that we men are skittish when it comes to trying again. IDK. I _do_ know getting lost is a confidence shaker. If your family group/tribe...whatever, gets lost it could cost lives.
> ...


Women are nurturers. Despite all the independent talk from the women on here, most of us want someone to take care of. We want to help and make another's life better. We want to give all emotionally. At least I do. Sometimes in that process, we end up giving too much to a man. Like you said, men need control. In trying to help, we start sacrificing little bits of ourselves in order to love another. In certain situations, this love will become an anchor and we end up as troubled as the one we fell in love with. At some point we have to step back, acknowledge that we gave all, forgive ourselves for not having boundaries, and then move forward. Realize that they don't (and won't) want to change but we can. This touches on Fowler's strong/weak comments.

This is from my perspective as a woman.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2012)

forgiveness doesn't equal "it's all good"..

I forgave my ex ..that doesn't mean that I believe he
merits some kind of free pass..IMHO, only God forgives and forgets..forgiveness, to me, means that I personally wipe the "you hurt me big time" slate clean...this requires zero effort on the part of the other person..it's MY choice..

Consequences of hurting me, OTOH are not my problem..the other person made choices and can pay the piper..I sleep very well at night..


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## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

@ Raven, 
I think, historically, men needed to feel in control. Also, women were content to abdicate that part of their lives upon the conception of marriage. But it's changing. Slowly, yet inexorably, the species is evolving. Lots of growing pains. Lots of dinosaurs to become extinct yet. The finished product is a long way from complete. In the process, we learn a little about how it feels to walk in your shoes and vice versa. That's the common ground that is most attractive to me. Nothing better, or more proper, than yin and yang working in natural concert towards oneness. 

@ Lesley,
I think issues like this touch on the question of "are there degrees of things." For example, forgiveness, trust,... etc. Sometimes things are simply a matter of all in or not. Other times it is a matter of degrees. A subject like either one of the examples can require a hybrid of sorts. IDK, I think there are a whole lot less absolutes in this world than people think. I think they like to feel there are more of them because it's more comfortable/safer for their perception of reality.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

We are all unique individuals, just like everyone else.


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## sherry in Maine (Nov 22, 2007)

I have forgiven, easily, mostly. 
One period of life in particular, though, was awfully hard. It took awhile to loosen the hooks that hurt, caused loss of faith in humanity and just plain creepy, bad people drove into me. 
As others have said, just so I could begin to move forward was the reason I let go and forgave. I am no longer disgusted and betrayed. I have forgiven; but I still do remember the actions. It's easier to look back ocasionally, since I forgave.

Those sacks of flesh will never ever be able to catch me unguarded again.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

I practice forgiveness first of all out of obedience. God says, therefore I must do. It's not easy and sometimes I gotta say it every day. Say it out loud even when I don't feel it in my heart, until I do feel I hve forgiven. Then I have put THEM in God's hands, they are no longer MY problem.

I like the saying, unforgiveness is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

How can we begin healing if we're drinking poison, holding grudges then blaming others for our issues? What are we giving God to work with in our lives if we can't give him this one simple act of obedience, the one great gift He gave us?

It does not mean I throw myself in the snakepit again. I can forgive rattlesnakes for being a rattlesnakes. It does not mean I should jump in and poke short sticks at them. This is only my observation, but those who hold grudges refusing to forgive are the ones who get caught in endless cycles of repeated negative patterns. There is no healing in that.


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## Jaclynne (May 14, 2002)

_Have you experienced the need or desire to forgive?_

Yes

_If so, how did you?_

I remember one particular transgression that had long reaching physical consequences on my person. I was reminded constantly, so I had to actively pursue a spirit of forgiveness. I prayed for them. I told them I forgave them. I prayed God would forgive them, forgive me for holding on to my hurt, I prayed good things would come to them. It was tough and took a long time, but one day I realized I really had forgiven them, I wasn't just saying the words anymore.

_Is having a faith in God part of the process for you? _

Yes, I believe we must forgive others to recieve forgiveness ourselves. I have been forgiven so much.

And like zong says, you have to forgive to move forward with life. I had a friend who was so bitter after she discovered her husbands cheating. She was miserable and talked about it constantly. She made her children miserable and her friends miserable. Years later, she's still bitter and a downer to be around. She's still single too.


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## tambo (Mar 28, 2003)

wildhorse said:


> I shall be the bitter old hag.I will not forgive my brother in law.I will not tolerate his advances and for the life of me I can not understand why my family expects me to..


Ya know what, I was thinking about this the other day. If he tried it again I would lay him out with the most pain I could enforce on him. He would think twice before he did it again. Because he would think man that hurt the last time I tried that I believe I will pass on trying it again. I would do it in front of who ever was there at the time too. I'm not a violent person but if the other men in your family wouldn't step up and take care of it dang it I would for myself. Don't miss out on your family because of this jerk. Nip it Nip it in the bud!!


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

tambo said:


> Ya know what, I was thinking about this the other day. If he tried it again I would lay him out with the most pain I could enforce on him. He would think twice before he did it again. Because he would think man that hurt the last time I tried that I believe I will pass on trying it again. I would do it in front of who ever was there at the time too. I'm not a violent person but if the other men in your family wouldn't step up and take care of it dang it I would for myself. Don't miss out on your family because of this jerk. Nip it Nip it in the bud!!


Exactly! Actions and Consequences. When a behavior becomes too painful to continue, most mammals stop. That's why we use shock collars on dogs to break them of chasing cars.

Stop expecting others to take care of your business for you, they won't. Take care of yourself, that's your job. Your boundaries, you enforce them. Inflict pain.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

sustainabilly said:


> Maybe it's just _my_ perspective but, I think, in general, men hunger for women more than women hunger for men. Because most men open up less than most women; women almost always have an outlet for sharing deeper feelings. *I also believe that most men, regardless of the rough image they show to the world, are instinctively drawn to beauty, warmth, nurturing, and acceptance. *





Raven12 said:


> Women are nurturers. Despite all the independent talk from the women on here, most of us want someone to take care of.* We want to help and make another's life better. We want to give all emotionally. At least I do. Sometimes in that process, we end up giving too much to a man. Like you said, men need control. In trying to help, we start sacrificing little bits of ourselves in order to love another. In certain situations, this love will become an anchor and we end up as troubled as the one we fell in love with. At some point we have to step back, acknowledge that we gave all, forgive ourselves for not having boundaries, and then move forward.* Realize that they don't (and won't) want to change but we can. This touches on Fowler's strong/weak comments.
> 
> This is from my perspective as a woman.


Weird chick, party of one :bouncy:

I would love the strength of a confident man.
Physically strong, emotionally strong, confident, bold.
Authorative.
A protector, a man of few words, but when he speaks, everyone listens.
A man who understands, and embraces his headship, and doesn't quiver when he has to make hard decisions.

Strength, Dignity, Honor.
Confidence

Someone who can't wait to come home to a clean house, home made dinner and desert. 
Someone who will show her how to tear down her Jeep motor, and not think "oh my gosh she doesn't need me". 
Someone who will take his woman hunting, and feel a gush of pride when she bags one all on her own. 
Someone who will let his woman crawl up in his lap and fuss with his hair. 
Someone who will let her just fall asleep in his lap. 
Someone who sees her worth is far above rubies, not just what's inbetween her legs.

So......yes, as a woman I love to 'fuss and please'.
But I would also love to have a strong confident hand, in the man.
Someone to 'take care of me' in the very masculine sense.


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## maverickxxx (Jan 25, 2011)

I don't believe in that I'm required to forgive also there is no time frame for me to do it. Yes a rattlesnake is a rattlesnake but when I see a rattlesnake dressed as a bunny then I'll rethink my current stance. Many rattlesnakes also rely on them being forgiven for being a rattlesnake in a bunny suit cause they are a rattlesnake. As far as being a poison for me must have an immunity to it. The way I see it is that person knows that I haven't n won't forgive them so they steer clear of me. Some of the others in this same situation have not taken same stance as me an forgave an they are starting to get the negative repercussions from it. Now for the most part I do forgive just not across the board. When I lose sleep or my choice to not forgive starts to affect me negatively I will reconsider my stance. Also when I see others who have choose to forgive n getting negative results from that choice that's there deal.


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## Raven12 (Mar 5, 2011)

maverickxxx said:


> Yes a rattlesnake is a rattlesnake but when I see a rattlesnake dressed as a bunny then I'll rethink my current stance. Many rattlesnakes also rely on them being forgiven for being a rattlesnake in a bunny suit cause they are a rattlesnake.


I have been thinking about this all morning. Do you give up hope in someone and chalk it up to being used? Are there people with no good in them that are only out there to use others? Do they only pretend to be troubled and need your help as a front to lure you in and when they are done they move on to another?

Yep, I am questioning a lot today and you do have a point, Mav. That is why I say forgive yourself first. The other person doesn't care so why bother.


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## maverickxxx (Jan 25, 2011)

It's really a situational things the exception to the rule. I have my general rules I live by that do get changed on occasion as needed. But yes I do write some people off all together but there's a lot of criteria to meet. N if u believe in mother Theresa n gahndi etc... It's not a stretch that there is a polar opposite. So the polar opposite of some so good is not really someone I'd like to spend much time trying to help after I realized.


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## maverickxxx (Jan 25, 2011)

An yes there are people exactly like that!


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## Spotted Owl (Jul 5, 2010)

I don't know why, but I will disclaim this. These are my own beliefs,thoughts and experiences on/in this matter. Agree with it or not is up to you.




I believe no person should forgive AND forget. Not even God does this. Everything about us, everything, is recorded to be accounted for later. Good and bad judgment will be made later in our rewards in heaven.

To forgive and forget, to me is the same as definition of stupidity. Doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results. I have done this, and most likely will do so again. I suspect everyone walking this Earth has done this and will again. 

It took/takes me a great deal of time to forgive some things. For me I needed to accept the forgiveness of my personal Lord and Savior, before I could give the forgiveness I needed to give. Give for me, not the offender. Out of obedience to God. Once I did this, things started to change for me in lots of unexplainable ways. The poison as Laura called it started to leave me, my head cleared and I could/do see things differently. My shoulders lifted and I didn't feel held down as I was before.

A few particular things in my life I absolutely did not want to forgive, not one I O T A, not a lick. I wanted them to feel the hatred I had against them. The only person that was being hurt was me and a select few around me that felt what I had going on and could not get away from it. It is a poison that not always just effects you, if you have kiddos, a wife/husband and the like. Your unforgiving thoughts and action will effect them also. You will turn hard/bitter in time, how much, who knows, but you will.

No if, and's or but's about it. I needed/need to accept it in my life, and I needed Gods help to give it. It hasn't taken all the pain away and that pain will most likely always be with me to some degree, but. With the help offered freely by Christ it is manageable, some days more than others, but it gets easier all the time.

I feel great sorrow for those with hearts so hard that they are either, unable, or unwilling to forgive and accept forgiveness. It's not a one way street, you cannot have one with out the other. If you think you can accept but not give you are fooling yourself. You will never truly know what acceptance is until you go through the struggle and at times pain of giving. Then you will know the sacrifice it takes to give. Yes. At times it is a sacrifice and exposure to give, you have to open yourself up to who knows what, to truly forgive someone, because you have to reopen the wound, ALL of it, to really know what is to be forgiven.

It's not the same as the, oh well and move on type of mentality that is prevalent today. It is and should be much deeper than that.

Try it, I mean really get to the roots and try it. I have a sneaky suspicion that you might like the results. It may or may not be over night, but there will be a difference in your life.



Owl


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## maverickxxx (Jan 25, 2011)

Well I see most of what u say so however the initial forgiveness had already been dun an my dealings with this person was because of court n my daughter. I had to simply wait for the inevitable. I even had to risk my own custody for the benefit of protecting my daughter in the short term till courts could catch up with the situation. It is hard to judge situation not being in it. N any poison i drink from this person does not negatively affect our relationship. Different things do affect my mood usally money lack of sleep n things of that nature.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

my husband on his deathbed, made my sons promise they would never forgive me for tearing our family apart and making their lives awful. he killed himself, in part to spite me for leaving. so tell me how unforgiveness is a poison that works horrible magic. my heart is broken for my kids to carry that promise, and the awful conflict such a promise wreaks is working its way through their lives now. all I can do is speak of my husband with love, to honor--do the namaste in memory of his person--as I interact with my kids and live on.

my sin was getting tired and falling down. I've had to work through a lot of judgement from people for that, people who should know better about forgiveness. and yet if there is no judgement there is nothing to forgive. my peace comes from knowing God didn't judge me for getting tired and falling down.

the thing about being forgiven much is that it teaches you humility and compassion for others. such is the bread of an everyday life 

[YOUTUBE]zKeJA5xhirU[/YOUTUBE]
Now I`m aimin' for heaven
But probably wind up down in hell
Where upon this alter I will hang my guilt ridden head
But it`s time I`ll take before I begin
Three sheets to the wind, Three sheets to the wind
Rebels are we, though heavy our hearts shall always be
Ah, no ball or chain no prison shall keep
We`re the rebels of the sacred heart
I said no ball or chain no prison shall keep
We`re the rebels of the sacred heart

Terrified of the open road
Yeah, where it leads ya never know
But rest assured he`ll be on you back
Yeah, the Holy Ghost through his tounges in black
As th band dog howls and the young girl cries
The blessed virgin in her proud dad`s eye
The albatross hangin' round your neck 
Is the cross you bare for your sins he bleeds
Rebels are we, though heavy our hearts shall always be
Ah, no ball or chain no prison shall keep
We`re the rebels of the sacred heart

Genuflect all you refugees who fled the land
Now on guilt you kneel
And say a prayer for those left behind
From beyond the pale to the Northern sky
So you saved your shillins and your last six pence
Cause in God`s name they built a barbed wire fence
Be glad you sailed for a better day
But don`t forget there`ll be hell to pay
Rebels are we, though heavy our hearts shall always be
Ah, no ball or chain no prison shall keep
We`re the rebels of the sacred heart 
I said no ball or chain no prison shall keep
We`re the rebels of the sacred heart

Reserrection no protection all things life must be
Ah no ball or chain no prison shall keep
We`re the rebels of the sacred heart

Now bless me father for I have sinned
But it`s the same old story again and again and again
Ah well, such is the bread of an everyday life
From mornin' to noon to this shadowless-night
Rebels are we, though heavy our hearts shall always be
Ah, no ball or chain no prison shall keep
We`re the rebels of the sacred heart 
I said no ball or chain no prison shall keep
We`re the rebels of the sacred heart


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## cindybode (Oct 5, 2002)

> Weird chick, party of one


Nope. There's two of us.:happy2:

There are a few men like that. I know them personally. Unfortunately the ones I know are not available. :awh: The cool thing is that I have watched them become that kind of man, and so I know that any guy who wants to can do it.

I just need to find a guy with some want-to. 

In the meantime . . . forgiveness. I agree with Laura. I have decided that I'm just going to follow Laura around and agree with her, since we seem to have similar views on life. It will save me a lot of typing.


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## L.A. (Nov 15, 2007)

Is it OK to wait, until after I've knocked the peewadden out of 'em, to forgive them.???

Makes it a bit easier.....

Not talking about hitting women


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## Spotted Owl (Jul 5, 2010)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Weird chick, party of one :bouncy:
> 
> I would love the strength of a confident man.
> Physically strong, emotionally strong, confident, bold.
> ...





cindybode said:


> Nope. There's two of us.:happy2:
> 
> There are a few men like that. I know them personally. Unfortunately the ones I know are not available. :awh: The cool thing is that I have watched them become that kind of man, and so I know that any guy who wants to can do it.
> 
> ...



You ladies need to move west. We need more of you out here. We're stuck with bra burning equality, anything you can do I can do better, if Momma ain't happy nobody happy so keep me happy types out here. 

I might tip over if I was to stumble across a woman such as you two. Especially if she stayed that way and didn't switch the bait, when she thought the trap was sprung.

Rare forms indeed.



Owl


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Weird chick, party of one :bouncy:
> 
> I would love the strength of a confident man.
> Physically strong, emotionally strong, confident, bold.
> ...


yes this is good.

I'll just add a lil...

I want someone yeah who appreciates and digs all that is woman in me, and then can forget I am a woman and see me as a human being--sorry but that "you're good for a girl" stuff really yucks me(being able to do "guy" stuff). Can we do stuff and have fun with it, and not be all you do this because you have a penis. 

I really dig a guy who can be a kid, who is not afraid of screwing something up(and can figure out how to red green it into something really cool), who can laugh and defer things to those who can do better, who isnt' afraid to say he's afraid(though yet soldiers on), who can change his mind and evolve with experience, who isn't afraid to say "I don't know" (yet will try to know better), someone who is uninhibited, who can dance like he's three sheets to the wind without a single drop of the dew. 

someone who sees that what's inbetween my legs "is" the doorway to to life and love, metaphorically and physically--who does the both/and, sees teh whole package and doesn't elevate one aspect over the other as more "enlightened". 

this video pretty much sums it all up...
[YOUTUBE]jZxXzeUnKNA[/YOUTUBE]

btw, y'all that are looking for a strong capable man--you're overlooking a lot of guys with a lot of potential that blossom into that stuff when someone loves them, Prismseed touched on this a while ago--"she makes me want to be a better man". none of us are a great deal, but if we can respect the alchemy, wonders never cease! rah!


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## sherry in Maine (Nov 22, 2007)

Celeste, I am so sorry your late dh did that trip on your sons.
When they are mature (and yes that takes a long time) they will know what kind of trip he laid on them, and the kind of suffering he inflicted on them.

Until then, and after that, please understand you have my sympathy, and know that you were guilty of absolutely nothing that he did to himself.


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## wildhorse (Oct 22, 2006)

He has torn my family apart..I have had family members stand and watch as my bil...tryed to drown me..they did nothing. They close there eyes to the bruises he leaves on my sister. He is a deacon therefore it must be right I stand up for myself therefore I will burn.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Spotted Owl said:


> You ladies need to move west. We need more of you out here. We're stuck with bra burning equality, anything you can do I can do better, if Momma ain't happy nobody happy so keep me happy types out here.
> 
> I might tip over if I was to stumble across a woman such as you two. Especially if she stayed that way and didn't switch the bait, when she thought the trap was sprung.
> 
> ...


You make my heart smile.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

wildhorse said:


> He has torn my family apart..I have had family members stand and watch as my bil...tryed to drown me..they did nothing. They close there eyes to the bruises he leaves on my sister. He is a deacon therefore it must be right I stand up for myself therefore I will burn.


Would you be any less miserable to walk away from all of them? 

I mean walk away knowing you are doing the right thing for you, gaining your self respect, giving yourself the chance to be who you are supposed to be, not who they decided you are.


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## wildhorse (Oct 22, 2006)

Laura I did walk away. Guess you could say I'm a good girl gone bad and I will protect myself at all costs.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

wildhorse said:


> He has torn my family apart..I have had family members stand and watch as my bil...tryed to drown me..they did nothing. They close there eyes to the bruises he leaves on my sister. He is a deacon therefore it must be right I stand up for myself therefore I will burn.


Sometimes, you have to make a stand, no matter the cost, and stand strong. Sometimes, what/who makes up your world will be against you; and maybe you will suffer. But stand strong and when all is settled, YOU will be there...and all will be right.

Mon


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

roadless said:


> In the spirit of a new thread I would like to know your thoughts on forgiveness.
> 
> Have you experienced the need or desire to forgive?
> If so, how did you?
> Is having a faith in God part of the process for you?


A pastor turned the hearts of our oldest two sons against us many, many years ago. I sobbed my heart out for years. Their daddy sobbed his heart out, and felt so rejected and used by this pastor.
We prayed the prayer many, many times about how God is no respecter of persons and Paul said that "Alexander the coppersmith did him much wrong and the Lord would repay him". I told God that if he was going to repay a coppersmith for hurting Paul, He better repay Reggie for ripping our family apart. I reminded God that Vengeance is His, and I expected Him to take it. (LOL) 
Long story short, I didn't want to forgive, but I knew I had to do it. It wasn't the grace of God that I wanted to forgive for, it was my fear of God. 
I used my mouth and proclaimed that I forgave that pastor as an act of my will. And believe me, neither my husband or I felt forgiving. But when all that hurt and those thoughts of anger and injustice came up, I again repeated the words, "Lord I forgive that man as an act of my will. I don't care how I feel. I don't care how my flesh or mind hurts. I will to forgive him, and I bring my flesh under subjection to the Word of God."
I never said a mean word to the human, but I wanted to. I was never rude to him, but O how I wanted to be. I did pray and remind God of His Word and His Promises to me that he would bless those who blessed me and curse those who cursed me. 
Still yet to this day, over 15yrs later, if I see him walking down the street it will bring up all the hurt and the tears. This is our family, our babies, that he turned the hearts of. He alienated our babies from us. And we loved them. We still do,and always have.
Today, our sons avoid him like the plague. They don't like him. Our relationship is restored. But I still deal with those feelings against this human who dares to call himself a minister of the gospel. And yet to this day, I have to go back to the Lord, pray and ask forgiveness for that root of bitterness, and say those same words, "I bring my thoughts and flesh under subjection to the Word of God. I forgive him as an act of my will....." I pray blessings over the human, and then remind God that praying blessings over an enemy adds coals of fires to his head. My attitude and flesh do not want this human to be forgiven because he did tear apart our family. He hurt us so much because he was foolish, and did not honor the Word of God. But God says to forgive those who despitefully use you. So I choose to do that no matter how my heart and mind feel. I will honor the Word of God. I will be kind and keep my mouth under subjection-- not badmouth him or be rude to him even though he hurt us so very much. I will pray blessings over him even though my flesh doesn't want to. 
The point is, forgivness isn't something that you have to feel. It is something that you choose to do as an act of your will. You do it to keep yourself in the Will of God. You forgive to stay under the umbrella of His grace and blessings. And you know that the Word of God still has promises for you about those who despitefully use us.


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## Tana Mc (May 10, 2002)

wildhorse said:


> Laura I did walk away. Guess you could say I'm a good girl gone bad and I will protect myself at all costs.


No!!! You are a good girl that had the guts to do the right thing!!! 
People make choices. Some of those choices are very stupid...... If your family has allowed this guy to bully them all in to submission---- they have made a stupid, cowardly choice. Forgive them but walk away and leave them with their choice.

You know as well as I do that manipulative people use religion to do all kinds of awful things. The good news is that it is all going to catch up with them one day..... I wish that it was sooner rather than later but.... 

Tana Mc


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

roadless said:


> In the spirit of a new thread I would like to know your thoughts on forgiveness.
> 
> Have you experienced the need or desire to forgive?
> If so, how did you?
> Is having a faith in God part of the process for you?


No, I don't sweat the small stuff and just file away the lesson taught by them for future reference, forget them and move on. In the end everything really is small stuff anyway.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

you know what, Jesus says to forgive, to turn the other cheek, to not call a brother a fool, BUT, Jesus DID call people who deserved it the name of  (pit of vipers, unwashed tombs, etc). food for thought.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

thank you SHerri, hugely!!!!! thank you!


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

Forgiveness can be the most excrutiating and most painful event in any persons life when taken seriously from Gods point of view.
maybe I can explain later,,, maybe not


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## billooo2 (Nov 23, 2004)

A lot of good thoughts have been expressed here. Some of my thoughts may be repetitive.

Forgiveness does NOT mean forgetting.
It does not mean minimizing the pain.
It does not mean "restoration" of the relationship.
It does not mean that you contimue being a victim.
It is a "choice"......NOT a "feeling."
It is something you do for your benefit.

It is "releasing" the person from the belief they "owe" you anything for the pain that they
caused you.

Sometime after my second divorce.......I was reading a verse where Jesus said that 'I am come to heal the broken-hearted, bring sight to the blind, and set the captive free.' (I probably did not get the quote exactly right.)

I realized that until I could forgive, that the anger would hold me captive, and I would not be able to see what the future could hold for me.


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## glazed (Aug 19, 2006)

[YOUTUBE]h1Lu5udXEZI[/YOUTUBE]​


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## glazed (Aug 19, 2006)

[YOUTUBE]r5J7vis9GV8[/YOUTUBE]​


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## tambo (Mar 28, 2003)

Love that song glazed!!


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## cindybode (Oct 5, 2002)

Spotted Owl said:


> You ladies need to move west. We need more of you out here. We're stuck with bra burning equality, anything you can do I can do better, if Momma ain't happy nobody happy so keep me happy types out here.
> 
> I might tip over if I was to stumble across a woman such as you two. Especially if she stayed that way and didn't switch the bait, when she thought the trap was sprung.
> 
> ...


Maybe you need to move east! :walk:


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

cindybode said:


> Maybe you need to move east! :walk:


 It doesn't work that way. Since Horace Greeley spoke his famous words, "Go West, young man," West is the only direction to go. 

There have been a few, very few, who tried to go East. It is against Nature, it disrupts the natural order, it brings down the Wrath of God in killer storms on them and everyone along their trail going East. 

It is not safe to go East.


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## cindybode (Oct 5, 2002)

Well I don't know . . . my daughter's boyfriend moved from OR to PA to live with us. Five years later and he is still alive LOL.


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## glazed (Aug 19, 2006)

...

It's sad when matches are made here and the potential for growth is obvious between two people, but the circumstances and distance keep them apart.

Real sad.

...


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## Raven12 (Mar 5, 2011)

People underestimate the beauty of the rural areas of PA.


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2012)

Wait, are you calling yourself a "rural area"? If so, I kinda like that. I wish I'd thought of it first.


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## wlkingcloud (Nov 23, 2012)

Yes , You have to forgive to be able to move forward.
me myself, i forgave the person that shot me and almost crippled me for life
but with my faith i was able to get through it and was able to spread that to others in the same boat or worse,die:


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## cindybode (Oct 5, 2002)

glazed said:


> ...
> 
> It's sad when matches are made here and the potential for growth is obvious between two people, but the circumstances and distance keep them apart.
> 
> ...


I am at a point in my life where relocation would be a workable possibility in the right circumstances. 

Just sayin' . . . :happy2:


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## glazed (Aug 19, 2006)

...

You do well for saying it 

...


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## Raven12 (Mar 5, 2011)

zong said:


> Wait, are you calling yourself a "rural area"? If so, I kinda like that. I wish I'd thought of it first.


You are going to make me cry.


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## glazed (Aug 19, 2006)

[YOUTUBE]Y_FT_d4H9fI[/YOUTUBE]​


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Forgiveness is the most powerful weapon we have. It does funny things to people.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

vicker said:


> Forgiveness is the most powerful weapon we have. It does funny things to people.


I'm discovering that truth.


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

Don't pee down my back and say that it is raining. Ever. 

I may agree to disagree, but if you entered my circle of trust and violated it, you have a mean nasty rabbit waiting to attack you when you attempt to enter again.


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

7 times lonelytree, 7 times,,, or is that 7 times 7,, better put your rabbit away.


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## glazed (Aug 19, 2006)

:donut:

He tells you not seven times ... but seventy times seven times. 

:donut:


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## Raven12 (Mar 5, 2011)

lonelytree said:


> Don't pee down my back and say that it is raining. Ever.
> 
> I may agree to disagree, but if you entered my circle of trust and violated it, you have a mean nasty rabbit waiting to attack you when you attempt to enter again.


[YOUTUBE]Nvs5pqf-DMA[/YOUTUBE]


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

Marshloft said:


> 7 times lonelytree, 7 times,,, or is that 7 times 7,, better put your rabbit away.


:lookout:

Please explain.


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

lonelytree said:


> :lookout:
> 
> Please explain.


 Well,, when I first read it in scripture,, I didn't get it either.
Didn't like the idea of having to forgive someone over and over and over.
But now that I've lived a few more years and have needed forgiveness as many times as I have. I think I get it now.
Now that doesn't mean you can't dump some hot coals on his head.


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

Foregivness doesn't equal forgetfulness. Some people have traits that enable them to do the same things over and over without caring about the consequences.

Burn me once, shame on you.
Burn me twice, shame on me.


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## Raven12 (Mar 5, 2011)

I took off that comment because it wasn't very "forgiving". But heck, I'm hurt and p*ssed.


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## billooo2 (Nov 23, 2004)

Perhaps this has already been said ........forgiveness does NOT mean forgetting..

Perhaps it means that the hurt and anger no longer prevent us from moving on with our life. 
The pain and anger no longer dominate our emotions and life.

Bill.....just thinking.....


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

billooo2 said:


> Perhaps this has already been said ........forgiveness does NOT mean forgetting..
> 
> Perhaps it means that the hurt and anger no longer prevent you from moving on their life.
> The pain and anger no longer dominate your emotions and life.
> ...


It was I believe said but repeating it is good. Good thinking Bill.


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

lonelytree said:


> Foregivness doesn't equal forgetfulness. Some people have traits that enable them to do the same things over and over without caring about the consequences.
> 
> Burn me once, shame on you.
> Burn me twice, shame on me.


 I agree in most circumstances.
Where I don't agree would be in a relationship, or even with our kids.
Some things you want to forget along with the forgiving in order for the relationship to continue unhindered.
Maybe I'm confusing "forgetting" with "blocking out"
I'm really good at blocking out past painful issues.
GH


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

Marshloft said:


> I agree in most circumstances.
> Where I don't agree would be in a relationship, or even with our kids.
> Some things you want to forget along with the forgiving in order for the relationship to continue unhindered.
> Maybe I'm confusing "forgetting" with "blocking out"
> ...


You can blame yourself for what they did, you can block out their actions, but you will always wonder if they are doing them again.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

Marshloft said:


> I'm really good at blocking out past painful issues.


Same here. I find that if I get busy with something else it's as though they never existed thus there was nothing to forgive because I feel nothing. However, if it gets shoved up in my face, the pain is like it happened 2 seconds ago. I will not speak to my EX but I dread the day our only child marries. I keep hoping 1 of us is dead by then but I'm not counting on it. After spending some time with a very wise and forgiving member here, I am going to try to be there for my baby despite the memories but I sure hope DS waits another year or so...just in case the EX does croak...I am human despite rumors to the contrary.


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## Raven12 (Mar 5, 2011)

It has to stop sometime. You can't allow a person to keep using you as an emotional punching bag. 

But then you see people stay in these horrible relationships. Total doormats. I don't get that because I can't do it.


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## billooo2 (Nov 23, 2004)

Marshloft said:


> I agree in most circumstances.
> Where I don't agree would be in a relationship, or even with our kids.
> Some things you want to forget along with the forgiving in order for the relationship to continue unhindered.
> Maybe I'm confusing "forgetting" with "blocking out"
> ...


Sometimes relationships can be "restored" (reconciliation).......IMO, that involves re-establishing TRUST in the person.

From my experience (learned the hard way)......TRUST should ALWAYS be EARNED........TRUST should never be "given."


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

katydidagain said:


> Same here. I find that if I get busy with something else it's as though they never existed thus there was nothing to forgive because I feel nothing. However, if it gets shoved up in my face, the pain is like it happened 2 seconds ago.


 You're right about the blocking out,, and in 2 seconds, its as if it just happened.
Obviously didn't forget. Maybe its not possible to forget even thru forgiving.
Some of the threads started lately have brought back memories that I've been able to block out years ago.
The blocking out doesn't take away the pain that forgiveness does.
Its like the left side of the brain needs to forgive, so a wound can begin the healing process.
The right side of the brain won't forget,, so as to continue on in life, it has learned to just block it out.
I dunno,, just throwin my experience out there.
Each person has had to adjust in their own way.
G


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

You guys are confusing forgiveness with being a dumb ass .


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

It goes like this. 

Forgiveness, acceptance, repentence, restitution, restoration.

The first time maybe you didn't know. Second time maybe you forgot. Third time somebody's a fool, it ain't gonna be me this time.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

vicker said:


> You guys are confusing forgiveness with being a dumb ass .


HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION:

1. I can totally forgive the neighbor who raped me as a child.
BUT I don't have to ask him to babysit my kids to prove I have forgiven him.

2. I can totally forgive a drunken father who beat the snot out of me as a child.
BUT I don't have to expose my kids to his drunkeness to prove I have forgiven him.

I can forgive as many times as the person offends. 
But I don't have to prove it to anyone.
God knows my heart, and that is all that matters.

As far as trust?
I trust in the Lord, with all my heart, and try to not lean on my own understandings, because He will make my paths straight. (My words based on Scripture)
I trust, no one, not one human, on the earth.
Never again.
Never.
That doesn't mean I am a quivering ball of nerves, running down every receipt, checking the cell bill, etc.
What will be, will be. 
I have freed myself of that worry. The "what if" factor.
Simple truth is this: a person is gonna do what a person is gonna do, and there is nothing I can do to stop it. Fussing about it robs me of time and energy.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

We have to learn to trust ourselves before we can trust others. Trust ourselves to set and enforce boundaries that will protect us. Then we can trust others within the boundaries we set for them. 

We need to learn to trust our gut and interpret what it is telling us, not what someone else says it's telling us.


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