# tarter on my dogs teeth - raw diet



## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

Hi,

Yesterday I noticed that my 5 1/2 year old dog had light brown/tan tarter on her back teeth; one on each side. I believe this is tarter.

I did some research on the Internet and they reccommend feeding kibble and or bones such as Milk Bones on a regular basis.

She has a large chicken quarter and eggs everyday, and throughout the week, she has organ meats added to this and raw hamburger at times.

I give her strips of beef steak fat on the cold days in the winter as well.

I read that I should brush her teeth with baking soda after first removing the tarter with diluted peroxide. If this does not work, then take her to the vet for teeth cleaning.

I have raised many dogs on kibble and Milk Bones and have not seen where Milk Bones did anything for their teeth. So I am not convinced of that.

She does not have bad breath and her teeth are white and healthy, except for the discoloration on the two. She does not have any swollen gums or broken teeth. Actually, I have never had a dog that did not have bad breath like this one. Her mouth is very clean and I have never brushed her teeth.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how the best way to remove the tarter and how to maintain her teeth?

If I have to take her in for teeth cleaning, I will. She is so healthy on a raw diet, I do not want her to start losing her teeth and be unable to eat raw food.

Thanks, digApony


----------



## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

She needs to have her teeth cleaned, especially if there is any redness around the gums at all. Even without redness, a cleaning and polishing will get rid of the tarter. Then have a prophymonas vaccine. They help immensely to prevent gum disease. Those vaccines have saved me thousands of dollars in teeth cleanings over the last few years because we have multiple dogs.


----------



## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

mekasmom said:


> She needs to have her teeth cleaned, especially if there is any redness around the gums at all. Even without redness, a cleaning and polishing will get rid of the tarter. Then have a prophymonas vaccine. They help immensely to prevent gum disease. Those vaccines have saved me thousands of dollars in teeth cleanings over the last few years because we have multiple dogs.


Thank you. I'll write that vaccine name down and take her to the vet next weekend...

digApony


----------



## lasgsd (Aug 9, 2004)

If she's 5 1/2 years old and only has a small amount of tartar then the raw diet she is on is doing the trick!!

I scrape my dogs teeth myself when I notice any tartar build up. I use a dog tooth scaler and carefully scrape away the tartar.

You could try giving her a turkey neck as those are bonier and might help work off the tartar on the back teeth.

I would not recommend using a vaccine where the manufacturer doesn't know the duration of effectiveness:



> Revaccination: Duration of immunity for this product has not been determined; six and twelve month intervals are being evaluated.


http://www.pfizerah.com/product_overview.aspx?drug=PH&country=US&lang=EN&species=cn


----------



## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

I've worked in a vets office and I wouldn't recommend the vaccine either. The vet I worked for would only recommend it for smaller, older dogs who had serious teeth problems. I also just scrape my dogs teeth when needed. A light coating isn't that big a deal. It will vary from dog to dog. Mine are all raw fed and have been for years. One dog is a couple months away from 12 years old. I've never had her teeth cleaned or scraped them. There is a light coating on her back teeth, but the gums look healthy, so I don't worry about it.

Another dog is 4, also never done his. His look like the 12 year olds' though, so I will probably have to scrape them one of these days.

The last is about 10. We got him from a shelter when he was 1-2 years old. His teeth were coated sooooo bad, they looked like he was 10, at least. I scraped them. I had to do that every 6 months for a couple years. He had the worst breath I have ever been around in a dog. You could smell it from several feet away. He was put on raw when I got him, but it took a while for his body to recover. His teeth gradually went to a once a year scraping and I actually haven't done him for a couple years now, but should. He just has more issues with this than the others.

If her gums look healthy, I wouldn't worry about it. If you are worried, you could take her in for a cleaning or try scraping it yourself. I don't like professional cleanings, just because they usually knock the dog out and that's always a stress on the liver. If it needs to be done, it needs to be done. BUT the older she gets, the more you want to take that into consideration.

Sorry this was so long.


----------



## Honorine (Feb 27, 2006)

I've always scaled my pets teeth, I was a dental assistant for many years. You can get dental tools at flea markets, probably online. I normally don't use curettes, I use whats called a spoon, its what the dentist uses to get decay out of your teeth. It looks like a tiny spoon, no sharp edge like a curette because all your really doing is flicking the tartar off. Start near the gum line, just catch the edge of the tartar and flick it off. It'll come off in pieces. I've done this to cats as well, my old man siamese still had every one of his teeth when he passed at 16. Cats tend to be crankier about it though.


----------



## Rain (Dec 29, 2010)

Excuse me digApony, don't want to derail your thread, I just have a question for Honorine:

My pugs had their teeth cleaned at the vet at ages 2, 4 and 6. After that I couldn't afford it anymore, and started to brush their teeth daily, honestly, it doesn't work - at least for my dogs. I continue it now because they love the taste and it's become a bedtime routine of sorts. But now they are both turning 16 and the tartar is quite heavy around their teeth. Do you think I could do the scraping myself at this point? As per usual, I'm afraid of hurting them. Yours other others' feedback? Thanks!


----------



## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

No problem Rain. It helps me. I brushed her teeth with a baking soda paste and where I could get to the film came off. My son is coming over to hold her while I try again.

She is a big, strong dog and hard to get to sit still, but she doesn't mind too much.

Her gums look very healthy and her teeth, which I noticed the difference between a grain fed dog, are very white. None of them are broken or worn.

I don't want to have her knocked out either. I will try the neck bone. 

I do not have time to brush her teeth every day. Moreover, I really don't have the money for expensive cleanings. 

Thanks everyone. I don't want the vaccine if it is not proven, both for her health and my pocket book. I have not had time to research the vaccine, nor talk to my vet. I've never believed that my vet would simply "sell" me something because I asked for it. He has always been quite honest, but you never know!

digApony


----------



## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

Where do I get the instrument for scraping? Ooops, sorry, I missed your link. Thanks.

digApony


----------



## Rain (Dec 29, 2010)

Yeah, the anesthesia scares me. I no longer had the liquidity, but also it's more risky as they age, at least I've been told that. Baking soda...I wonder if I can slowly ease some into their toothpaste. I'll give it a go for a week or two and see if there is any difference. But if I could get that dental scraper, I'd love to try that too, as long as it didn't hurt them you know? Doting pug-mom that I am, sigh!


----------



## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

Rain said:


> Yeah, the anesthesia scares me. I no longer had the liquidity, but also it's more risky as they age, at least I've been told that. Baking soda...I wonder if I can slowly ease some into their toothpaste. I'll give it a go for a week or two and see if there is any difference. But if I could get that dental scraper, I'd love to try that too, as long as it didn't hurt them you know? Doting pug-mom that I am, sigh!


The baking soda did take it all off where I could get to. It is not a tough tarter, just like a film, I guess.

I am amazed at how good her teeth and gums do look; not to mention her overall health and I feel like it is the raw diet. 

digApony


----------



## Rain (Dec 29, 2010)

That's great that you can nip it in the bud while it's still just a film! I wonder if the baking soda would at least soften it a little...worth a try though! My boys have always been on a kibble diet, and still developed tartar, but I'm no expert on the raw diets!


----------



## Honorine (Feb 27, 2006)

Rain you could scale their teeth but I would have the following concerns- Because of their age you could be uncovering root surface that would be very sensitive to heat, cold, pressure and air, causing them pain. If their gums are infected and they bleed there's always the chance of introducing an infection into their blood stream. This could really be a problem if either of them had a heart murmur, in humans with heart murmurs they are put on antibiotics during dental care for just this reason. Also the tartar could be holding the teeth in, upright and in place, remove it and suddenly they have all these loose teeth. I've seen that happen with people! On the other hand if there's serious gum disease and infection removing the tartar may be beneficial, allowing the gums to heal. Pain in the butt that I am I'd probably poke around a little, smell their breath, perio disease has a very distinctive smell. I'd see just how red and inflamed the gums look and wiggle the teeth a bit, get an idea of what I was dealing with before I started popping off years of tartar. There's also the stress level thing with your guys, some of my dogs just lay there and let me do it, others freak and grind their molars while I'm working, even though I've been doing this since they were puppies. You would have to figure out if its worth it.


----------



## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

My guys get a beef rib every other week or so. Takes them a while to gnaw on it and scrapes off most of the tarter.


----------



## Rain (Dec 29, 2010)

Honorine said:


> Rain you could scale their teeth but I would have the following concerns- Because of their age you could be uncovering root surface that would be very sensitive to heat, cold, pressure and air, causing them pain. If their gums are infected and they bleed there's always the chance of introducing an infection into their blood stream. This could really be a problem if either of them had a heart murmur, in humans with heart murmurs they are put on antibiotics during dental care for just this reason. Also the tartar could be holding the teeth in, upright and in place, remove it and suddenly they have all these loose teeth. I've seen that happen with people! On the other hand if there's serious gum disease and infection removing the tartar may be beneficial, allowing the gums to heal. Pain in the butt that I am I'd probably poke around a little, smell their breath, perio disease has a very distinctive smell. I'd see just how red and inflamed the gums look and wiggle the teeth a bit, get an idea of what I was dealing with before I started popping off years of tartar. There's also the stress level thing with your guys, some of my dogs just lay there and let me do it, others freak and grind their molars while I'm working, even though I've been doing this since they were puppies. You would have to figure out if its worth it.


Wow...that's a lot to take in! Thank you so much Honorine! Well, my poor little Winston the survivor also has a heart murmur along with the kidney disease and anxiety, I'm sure it would increase his stress. The vets have said his teeth are in bad shape, but we all agree there isn't much to be done. I personally have teeth like chalk, so again, maybe I'm humanizing, but I just don't want them to feel the pain I have. I think this is another case where I should just leave it be! 

Thanks!


----------



## Rain (Dec 29, 2010)

...and thanks digApony for starting this thread!


----------



## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

BoldViolet said:


> My guys get a beef rib every other week or so. Takes them a while to gnaw on it and scrapes off most of the tarter.


I just read about that on the Internet. I gave her a pig's foot this afternoon, it took her longer to gnaw on than a chicken quarter, but it's all I have on hand.

Her teeth really do look good overall except for the light colored film on a couple teeth in the back quarter.

I'm not going to try to brush her teeth again either. We don't get enough time together anyway, and I don't want it to be just that, you know.

digApony

Thanks a bunch!


----------



## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

Rain said:


> ...and thanks digApony for starting this thread!


yes, it was very helpful! I'm going to increase her bone gnawing and just leave it be too!

digApony


----------



## Honorine (Feb 27, 2006)

Sounds like a good idea to leave him be Rain, he's an old fellow, probably just fine the way he is. Digapony if all she has is a thin sheet of tartar as opposed to a opaque brown heavy crust thats really not bad, and probably not much to worry about. I hope I didn't sound like a know it all, teeth are just my 'thing' I guess, and many years ago I worked with a dentist who worked on animals on the side. I was his assistant, and we did both domestic pets and zoo animals, it was fun. I still remember most of what he taught me.


----------



## Old Mission (Dec 26, 2009)

raw chicken backs work great for cleaning teeth too, lots of little crunchy bones and the dogs just love them!
I scale my dogs teeth myself, they are not raw fed right now but when they are I hardly ever need to clean their teeth, but when kibble fed its way worse. I scale about every other month when I can, sometimes they go about 6 months at a time, always have come totally clean no matter how gross they were. 
I would not get the vaccine personally after the research I have done on it and my vet wont even recommend it. I also would not take a dog to the vets for a cleaning unless they needed some type of major cleaning, repair or tooth extraction. You can do it yourself at home with none of the stress or anestesia.(or possibly bringing home something) I got my tools from the drug store, just bought human tools and I got one scaler from a pet supply catalog or pet store. All my dogs are taught at a young age to get used to teeth cleaning so they just lay there and let me do my thing and I get in there real good.

Stephanie


----------



## Rain (Dec 29, 2010)

Honorine said:


> Sounds like a good idea to leave him be Rain, he's an old fellow, probably just fine the way he is. Digapony if all she has is a thin sheet of tartar as opposed to a opaque brown heavy crust thats really not bad, and probably not much to worry about. I hope I didn't sound like a know it all, teeth are just my 'thing' I guess, and many years ago I worked with a dentist who worked on animals on the side. I was his assistant, and we did both domestic pets and zoo animals, it was fun. I still remember most of what he taught me.


MY world can use some (alleged ) "know it all's"!!! Seriously! I'm so grateful to get a bit of your knowledge...I am so untrusting of vets, just from bad experiences...so hearing some hints/tips/advice/opinions from someone who's been there really helps! I think that's super that a human dentist also took care of animals! And the knowledge you learned is invaluable too!


----------



## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

My old dog(she's been gone about 8 years now) had her teeth cleaned at the vet's when she was almost 12 years old becuase they insisted the tarter &/or plague would cause her to become sick from the bacteria that could go down her throat from her teeth.

It was very exspensive, they knocked her out, it took her almost 24 hours before she was acting normal after coming home & I was so worried about her. I would never have my dogs teeth cleaned like that again unless there teeth were causing them pain & they needed some dental work.

I brush their teeth & every time the vet checks there teeth he says they look good(different vet as we moved north), our dogs are now 7 & 8 years old & now been raw feeding them for about 4 months now.
What an improvement all around for both of them not just their teeth.


----------



## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

Honorine said:


> Sounds like a good idea to leave him be Rain, he's an old fellow, probably just fine the way he is. Digapony if all she has is a thin sheet of tartar as opposed to a opaque brown heavy crust thats really not bad, and probably not much to worry about. I hope I didn't sound like a know it all, teeth are just my 'thing' I guess, and many years ago I worked with a dentist who worked on animals on the side. I was his assistant, and we did both domestic pets and zoo animals, it was fun. I still remember most of what he taught me.


Oh no, don't apologize! I appreciate everyone's imput. And yes, it is light brown film. It came off easily when I brushed her teeth. I will keep an eye on her teeth. I'm going to try the bone gnawing.

Thanks! digApony


----------



## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

Hi, I just wanted to let everyone know that I started giving my dog turkey neck bones everyday, along with her regular meal and I looked today and she has very little of the brown I saw on her teeth when I started this thread. She has a small amount around the bottom of one tooth in the front quarter, but otherwise her teeth are as white as snow!

I also gave her a beef back rib every couple days for a snack.

It worked!

Thank you everyone!

digApony


----------

