# Best knife combat training?



## HillRunner (Jun 28, 2010)

Anyone train in knife combat skills if so what school or style is it?


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

This guy was a master of the Arabian Knight's school of scimitar combat fighting techniques!

[YOUTUBE]WJ-afKCOZZc[/YOUTUBE]


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Personally, I'd much rather shoot you.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

My daughter and I train in Filipino Combat Systems style for knife and stick fighting, along with kajukenpo for hand to hand fighting. The FCS includes kali, escrima, and arnis.

This link shows the general FCS style. Check out the video on the left of the second row, 12 Cuts in 1.5 Seconds. Videos

Toward the bottom of this link, there is a photo that shows the blades that we train with: short knife, long knife/machete, hatchet, kerambit (the curved, crescent-moon looking thing), etc.http://filipinocombatsystems.com/ We also train with sticks, which may be much easier to come by in an emergency (broom handle, rolled up magazine, piece of PVC or other pipe, etc.) Many of the basic moves are the same whether with stick or knife.

This site has lots of training (non-edged) knives for sale and instructional videos as well.
Trainers / Accessories

However, I definitely recommend you find an actual class or instructor. Knife fighting is really fast and furious and nothing to play around with. My instructor usually says that if a knife comes out, you will probably get cut. It is just a matter of knowing how to disarm the other guy and how to defend yourself quickly enough to avoid getting stabbed in a vital spot or losing too much blood.

(When I reread this post, it sounds like we are cold blooded killers. Really we are just a normal homeschool mom and kid, who live on a small farm. But if it hits the fan anywhere near us, we will not be taken out easily.

Also, yes, a gun would be most effective, but if you are surprised and unable to reach your gun or attacked in a crowd, where you can't shoot for fear of hitting innocent bystanders, or in a government building/school/etc where metal detectors keep guns out, then it is a good idea to have some other...skills to employ.)

Plus it is just really fun and great exercise!!!


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Or I would rather use a bayonet on the end of a rifle, if I had to poke you with a sharp pointy object...


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

ovsfarm said:


> Also, yes, a gun would be most effective, but if you are surprised and unable to reach your gun or attacked in a crowd, where you can't shoot for fear of hitting innocent bystanders, or in a government building/school/etc where metal detectors keep guns out, then it is a good idea to have some other...skills to employ.)


Lots of folks think they don't need anything except a gun. Many times they are wrong.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Krav Maga.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

Possum Belly said:


> Lots of folks think they don't need anything except a gun. Many times they are wrong.


That's what I'm thinking too. Tomorrow I'm going to start learning how to throw knives and hatchets. I figure if I run out of bullets, or whatever, at least I can still defend myself, or anyone else.
That knife fighting looks like something I might look into as well..........


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

hercsmama said:


> That's what I'm thinking too. Tomorrow I'm going to start learning how to throw knives and hatchets. I figure if I run out of bullets, or whatever, at least I can still defend myself, or anyone else.
> That knife fighting looks like something I might look into as well..........


I agree 100% but do your best to never run out of ammo.
That would be a bad feeling.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

If you are going to check out knife and hatchet throwing, keep in mind that one designed for throwing will have different weight and balance than one for the more mundane cutting and chopping chores. 

You might also want to consider blow gun and atlatl. Both very primitive weapons, easy to make at home, or at least make your own ammo. And if TPTB come knocking on our doors to remove our weapons, most won't even recognize these as weapons. Check on YouTube, there are lots of videos on how to make them and how to use them effectively.

We have done a fair bit of atlatl, but not much blow gun. In my "free" time, I'd like to check that out.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

I was always taught to never throw your knife in a fight. If you miss you're not only unarmed, but you've armed the other guy.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

I'm thinking absolutely worst case here. If it came to it , I could also use it for small game hunting as well. Saves on bullets that way too!:goodjob:


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## rags57078 (Jun 11, 2011)

i'm getting too old to fight , just shoot them and be done with it


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

HillRunner said:


> Anyone train in knife combat skills if so what school or style is it?


I have trained both traditional korean knife as well a modern combat knife. A couple of friends of mine are recognized experts in knife as well as Masters in Korean Martial Arts. Probably the most widely recognized as best single training courses in the country is James Keating's Riddle of Steel. You can look him and course up on internet. Both my friends are certified instructors by Keating, though were accepted by him as instructors but didnottrain under Keating. Hock Hochiem also has a very respected close quarters training course and travels regular circuits, or used to, for interested groups. You can also find Hock onthe internet. Most of the more respected knife instructors have trained in kali, but most of the top trainers don't teach straight kali. 

Knives are typically only thrown as a diversion by trained folks. And most trained knife fighters carry multiple blades available for both hands. And people who sayknife and other close quarter combat training is not needed really do not understand self defense requirements.


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## WildBillTN (Feb 1, 2006)

I train and teach Filipino martial arts. In my opinion, the Filipino arts such as kali, (call it escrima, arnis, etc.) are the most effective and realistic stick and blade arts out there. Sure, I train in firearms and empty hand tactics as well. Different weapons for different situations.


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

Wild Bill,

What system and school did you train in? I would like to work out with a Filipino artist, but I bet you are too far away for me to make it regularly. Know anyone you would recommend in north central Alabama? Thanks.

KMA1


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Martial arts and knives require *speed, strength, and years of practice* to master.

Go up against a bigger, stronger , faster opponent, and you STILL lose

A week or two with a firearm will give you *the basics* to protect yourself with little to no great strength required at all, and you never have to get close enough for *him* to touch YOU

An 80 year old Grandma *with a 38 Spcl* can beat the best Black Belted Ninja in the world.

It's nice to know as many ways to protect yourself as possible, but much of that stuff is limited to the fast, fit, and mostly young.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> A week or two with a firearm will give you *the basics* to protect yourself with little to no great strength required at all, and you never have to get close enough for *him* to touch YOU
> 
> An 80 year old Grandma *with a 38 Spcl* can beat the best Black Belted Ninja in the world.


You might want to give more respect to knives when you are packing heat.



> 21 Foot Rule - The 21 foot rule states that the average person with a knife or sword can get to and cut a person in about the same time that the average person can draw and fire a handgun.
> 
> In the time it takes the average officer to recognize a threat, draw his sidearm and fire 2 rounds at center mass, an average subject charging at the officer with a knife or other cutting or stabbing weapon can cover a distance of 21 feet.


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## HillRunner (Jun 28, 2010)

Also guns are not the quietest of all weapons to go in dispatch and get out without alerting the targets buddies.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Ed Norman said:


> You might want to give more respect to knives when you are packing heat.


Yeah, I know all about that rule.
Having your own knife doesn't make it different.

*My point* is hand to hand combat is great in THEORY, but for *most* people it's not realistic.
It's what you resort to when you run out of ammo

Look around the next time you go to the mall, and you'll see the majority aren't really capable of putting up much of a fight

The older you get , the less it's an option

If you're Chuck Norris, you might be able to take on a couple of 18 year olds at once

But don't let a few cool moves make you over confident


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Yeah, I know all about that rule.
> Having your own knife doesn't make it different.
> 
> *My point* is hand to hand combat is great in THEORY, but for *most* people it's not realistic.
> ...


 The mall quote I have to agree with. Whenever I walk into a place I always look at who's the biggest (perceived) threat then decide if and how I would fight them. Walking through the mall or Wal Mart I'm not often concerned... ound:


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

rags57078 said:


> i'm getting too old to fight , just shoot them and be done with it


Yeah.....And much too old to take a Whipping, too. Guess it's time I need to think about carrying an extra gun, hunnh.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

We have multiple firearms and shoot with them often. My daughter shoots competitively. We STILL value martial arts training, including the knife fighting. Because any prepper worth their salt has a Plan B.

Do I carry a gun into a crowd of preschoolers? No. Do I carry a gun at the local swimming pool? No. Do I carry a gun when I enter the local court house, school, or community center? No. So a whopping big lot of good my Ruger 357 or mini-14 are going to do me in those locations. Regardless of my ability to shoot them well. Of course they are very effective weapons. But are they are not foolproof enough to be my only plan.

Sure a gun is the best bet in many cases. But not all of them. And I plan to be prepared in both situations.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Old John said:


> Yeah.....And much too old to take a Whipping, too. Guess it's time I need to think about carrying an extra gun, hunnh.


I know a Highway Patrolman who is *alive today* because he had an "extra"

He got in a fight with a suspect who managed to take his gun, and before the guy could figure out where the safety was, he got his back up from his ankle holster and shot him


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Old John said:


> Yeah.....And much too old to take a Whipping, too. Guess it's time I need to think about carrying an extra gun, hunnh.


 I dunno. The guy that trained me in Krav Maga was retired and in his late 60s. Old or not that guy could whoop my... Then there are several stories of older retired Marines taking out the bad guys. I'm just saying that training and practice goes a long way. More often than not you'll be up against some thug and not a well trained commando. Knowing how to deflect a punch and crack his windpipe in one deft move could save your life, regardless of how old you are.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

InvalidID said:


> I dunno. *The guy that trained me in Krav Maga* was retired and in his late 60s. Old or not that guy could whoop my... Then there are several stories of* older retired Marines* taking out the bad guys. I'm just saying that *training and practice* goes a long way.
> 
> More often than not you'll be up against some thug and not *a well trained commando*. Knowing how to deflect a punch and crack his windpipe in one deft move could save your life, regardless of how old you are.


 
The people you're referring to *ARE* "well trained commandoes" who spent *years* learning and training.

*MOST *people will *not* put out the effort to reach those levels.
*MOST* will *not* train enough to maintain the *physical conditioning* needed

If your "one deft move" isn't PERFECT, the* younger, bigger* guy is going to mop the floor with you.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The people you're referring to *ARE* "well trained commandoes" who spent *years* learning and training.
> 
> *MOST *people will *not* put out the effort to reach those levels.
> *MOST* will *not* train enough to maintain the *physical conditioning* needed
> ...


 You don't leave it at one deft move though do you? And since when would we want to not learn a skill to protect ourselves based on the fact that it might not work? If you both have guns and the other guy is a better shot, gets lucky, draws fast he's going to kill you. Should I decide based on this logic I should not carry a gun or learn to shoot?

It's always better to try and fail than fail to try.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The people you're referring to *ARE* "well trained commandoes" who spent *years* learning and training.


Your highway patrol friend was probably pretty well trained, too. His first gun didn't save him; it nearly killed him. He was smart to have a backup. I sometimes carry a backup gun or two, but it's not always practical. I like to have backups to my backups. Fighting skills are just another backup. A few weeks of the right kind of training can make almost anyone proficient enough in fighting to give them a good shot of coming out on top against most attackers. Nothing is guaranteed, but that's true with a gun, too. Having said all that, for knife fighting more extensive training is probably necessary. Knives are more dangerous to the user than guns are.


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