# solar setup for freezer



## buck_1one

I am looking at some land and small house right now. The house has no electric, water, phone, etc etc.

I've just picked up and started reading some books on solar and renewable energy. So I thought I'd ask here for some input into a solar setup.

What I want to do is run a freezer, and just the freezer, on solar. There are a couple of small out buildings, and one I'll put the freezer and solar in/on. The property gets lots of sun.

The freezer spikes in the upper 90 watt range when it kicks on and settles down in the mid to upper 70 watt range. At the moment it's pulling 74-75 running watts.

At this point my two most basic questions are what size panel and battery will I need to make this freezer run all year long?

Thanks in advance.


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## idahodave

You need to measure over a full day to find out how much energy is used before determining a battery and solar panel size.


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## PD-Riverman

As stated we need a daily usage amount. Putting a killowatt meter on it and getting a reading for 24 hours is the info needed. Your freezer might be pulling 75 watts while the compressor is running(low sounding reading), but your comp. want run all the time. 




buck_1one said:


> I am looking at some land and small house right now. The house has no electric, water, phone, etc etc.
> 
> I've just picked up and started reading some books on solar and renewable energy. So I thought I'd ask here for some input into a solar setup.
> 
> What I want to do is run a freezer, and just the freezer, on solar. There are a couple of small out buildings, and one I'll put the freezer and solar in/on. The property gets lots of sun.
> 
> The freezer spikes in the upper 90 watt range when it kicks on and settles down in the mid to upper 70 watt range. At the moment it's pulling 74-75 running watts.
> 
> At this point my two most basic questions are what size panel and battery will I need to make this freezer run all year long?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


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## buck_1one

idahodave said:


> You need to measure over a full day to find out how much energy is used before determining a battery and solar panel size.


I had a feeling someone might say that. I put the meter on and I'll have to check it tomorrow evening when I get home from work.


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## Jim-mi

Plus you will want a big enough system to run for 4 ??? days of no sun. . . . .and not to drop the bat too low..........


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## Pelenaka

Please post your readings as soo as u can.
Not having a freezer or rather ice is pretty much the only thing I can think of that would make off grid living hard. Not impssible buy hard.


~~ pelenaka ~~


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## TnAndy

Also, in the interest of others thinking of doing this, post the cubic foot size of the freezer, approximate age if you know it, as well as "frost free" or not ( or switchable ) and whether upright or chest. ALL that plays into it. 

New ones have far better insulation than the older dogs, plus more efficient motors/etc.


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## buck_1one

Ok, here are the results from the twenty four hour measurement, 1.1 KWH I think this means it used 1100 watts in 24 hours, correct?

I'm glad to see a little interest in this and will be happy to give some info on my freezer.

I got a couple of years ago from Lowes, so not too old. It is a chest freezer, 9 cubic feet, IIRC. Made by Fridgidaire. I looked on Lowes site but they don't have the exact model listed. At the moment it is about half full. It is a manual defrost model.

Also I will note that the freezer is in a hot area. This is due to a complete lack of any other place to put it, other then outside. So my numbers may be higher then normal. Actually I was a little shocked it used as much as it did in the time frame.

So armed with 1.1 KWH, what am I going to need for this thing?


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## TnAndy

OK..first convert your KWhrs to amp hours, since most batteries used for this type thing are rated that way. 1100 / 120v = 9.16 amp/hrs Call it 10amp/hrs for a little cushion.

Now, as Jim said.....how many days to you want to run assuming NO recharge from your panels ? 3, 4, 5, 6 ?? Let's say really crappy weather sets in, and you need 5 days. 5 x 10 =50amp/hrs you need from a battery bank. 

Actually, you'll need more than than, depending on how efficient your inverter is, and other system losses.....so let's up that to 75amp/hrs to last you 5 days with no recharge.

Now, batteries are rated by the number of cycles of discharge AND how deep you discharge them. Most folks recommend NO MORE than 50% discharge, and less is better for longer battery life. Some batteries you can find the specs for the number of cycles a manufacturer rates their batteries at what depth.....some you can't...but keep in mind that rule of thumb....the less depth you discharge, the better.

SO, at a minimum, you'd need a 150amp/hr battery (or batteries)....and I'd probably go up to a 200 or better.

Next, your inverter. Your 90watt start up and 75watt running amount means you're not going to need a BIG inverter....probably couple hundred watts continuous, maybe a bit more surge. I can't say if you will need a true sine wave inverter, or if a cheaper square wave one will work. I'm not that familiar with small inverters and whether they will work with a freezer motor. Perhaps someone else will weigh in on that.

Then, you need panels to recharge the battery.
Let's switch back to watt hours. You'll need 1100w per 24hrs, plus system losses. Add 25% to that, which means you need 1375watts every day....plus enough to refill the battery on those days the sun didn't shine.

You're in W.Va.....figure 5 hours of sun per day, average. That means you need 1375/5=275w worth of panels to get you thru ONE 24hr period.
To take care of those cloudy days, with solar ONLY, ( as in you don't want to fire up a generator now and then.....which after you price stuff, you may have a change of heart  )...turn right back around and multiply 5 x 275, and you'll get back to 1375w of rated panels, for a 5 day worst case.

Cost guesstimate ? Probably gonna run you 5 grand for the whole shooting match just to be sure you can keep that freezer running. Add a small Honda generator in the mix and keep an eye on your battery levels during bad weather, and you could probably cut back to 1/3 the PV panels, and save yourself thousands. ( all this assuming you buy new stuff, no scrounging ).

That the kind of thing you were wanting ?


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## buck_1one

TnAndy said:


> That the kind of thing you were wanting ?


Yes, thank you, but that's not what I wanted to hear:smack

5 grand just to run a freezer, holy cow!!! that's just crazy!!


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## idahodave

TnAndy...I think you missed a step with the battery when you went from KWh to amp hours. Voltage enters into the calculation....your numbers are good for a 120 v battery bank, if it's 12 v they need to be multiplied by 10.


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## wy_white_wolf

And to make it worse he undershot the battery size by about a factor of 10x. 

When calculating from watt-hours to amp-hours you need to divide by the battery bank voltage - not the usage voltage. 

1.1KWH / 12vdc = 91.6 AH times 5 days = 458AH @12vdc, or ~250AH at 24VDC

I do think he overshot the PV array size a little but not by much. My numbers come in at right about 1KW array but that really depends on your winter insolation. For off grid you can't use yearly average hours. One needs to calculate for worst case because there is no way one could afford a battery bank big enough to carry extra power from summer to winter.

All ends up you looking at well over $5k (I'd guess closer to $8-10K) just to run the freezer. 

Now you see why we do all we can to reduce our usage first. That high price for a Sundazer all of a sudden isn't so high. As a general rule of thumb, every dollar spent on power reduction works out to about $4 saved in off-grid solar costs.

WWW


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## mightybooboo

Another factor is where its located.If its on the porch as weather goes south so do cooling needs and less energy consumed.

1375 watts of panels???? That alone should store 4 days of running,how about 2 days storage and a small genny?

700 watts panels can be had for 1400 bucks,400 for inverter,whatever on batteries and misc Im sure not coming anywhere near 5-8 grand JUST for a freezer,you will get more than the freezer out that much of the time.

Yup,just freezer get a sundanzer. 800 watts will run that and your lights and some tv and a vacuum when the sun shines,have a bud doing just that.He hasnt used his genny since.

BTW,energy star ratings have been spot on in my testing freezer,refer and Tv.


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## Jim-mi

buck 1one . . . theres some good posts here answering your question.
We are not at all trying to be spoil sports . . . . . . .
Just . . . .thats how it is in the real world . . . .

Before you say "Jeeezzz" too loudly and for too long . . . . .
Remember you will have just "bought" your very own "power company" that will quietly with out monthly payments, for a long while keep that freezer load of goodies ready for your tummy . . . . . .done right you will need very very little gasoline for a back up genny.

Now since you offered . . .I'll take vanilla thank you.........


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## TnAndy

idahodave said:


> TnAndy...I think you missed a step with the battery when you went from KWh to amp hours. Voltage enters into the calculation....your numbers are good for a 120 v battery bank, if it's 12 v they need to be multiplied by 10.


Yep.....I did miss it. Thanks.


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## TnAndy

buck_1one said:


> Yes, thank you, but that's not what I wanted to hear:smack
> 
> 5 grand just to run a freezer, holy cow!!! that's just crazy!!


Well, again....that's worst case, and solar only. You have to plan for peak demand if you depend ONLY on solar, and spend the money for that, even if you only use that peak capacity very little. 

As BooBoo ( and I ) said: throw a little generator in the mix to handle those long cloud periods, and you can significantly reduce the outlay on solar equipment.


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## buck_1one

I do thank everyone for their input on the matter. I guess I was just knocked out of my chair with the cost. I had hoped it would be easier and cheaper, sense I only wanted one electric thing and was willing to give up everything else.

I am willing to say that the needs of the freezer will be less (if I can get this place) because it would be stored in a much cooler place then it is now. Right now I live in a small trailer that gets VERY hot during the summer and the freezer is about 5 or 6 feet from the wood stove that keeps me from freezing during the winter.

The main problem I have now (as with most people) is money. I am trying to sell anything I have of value to get the down payment together for the property. My 98 Subaru, my 85 Jaguar XJS, I'm even thinking about selling the 95 Bronco I just got late last year. More or less if someone offered me $$$ for something I have...I'd probably sell it (if the price was right).

So the freezer becomes a double edge sword. If I spend the money to run the freezer, I won't be able to come up with the down payment. No down payment, then running the freezer is a moot point. If I do come up with the down payment, I have no way of running the freezer. That means a huge loss of food, $$$, and I starve to death.:hair


Jim-mi...Sorry but I don't have vanilla. Homemade strawberry...but no vanilla.:icecream: 

On a rabbit trail that has nothing to do with this thread, I used to call and razz my mother about my strawberries. During the peak of strawberry season I was bringing in about 4 lbs of berries a day. Sometimes I had strawberry ice cream for dinner. So I'd call mom and rub it in, lol.

Sorry for the thread drift.


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## mightybooboo

Get the land first,a coleman ice chest and a block of ice lasts 5 days,BTDT,works pretty durn well.I put the meat in a ziplock right on the block,really works well.


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## TnAndy

Buck,

Is grid power NOT an option ?


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## idahodave

If your looking for low cost, how about a LP refrigerator from an camper?


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## Jim-mi

Believe me . . .strawberry is VERY acceptable ..........


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## buck_1one

TnAndy said:


> Buck,
> 
> Is grid power NOT an option ?


More or less, not really. Just to keep things short, old house, old wires, no longer hooked to the grid at all, power company won't touch it. Realtor made sure I knew about the power co. 

Best I can come up with, been empty for about two decades give or take and that is when *all* the grid wiring was removed.

So grid power is really not an option.


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## TnAndy

Well, is the power line still to the property ?

I can understand the service drop being removed, but if all they have to do is hang a new transformer, and drop to your service, you should consider grid power. Put a construction temporary in, and for a few hundred bucks, you'll have more power than 20,000 in solar could give you. I know folks that have used a "temporary" service for years.

Then, over time, you can work on converting to solar as a backup, or even primary if you want.


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## PD-Riverman

If you are going to be traveling to work daily, you can add a couple batteries with a isolater to your vehicle so you can run this freezer at night off these 2 batteries, then you can get a smaller solar set-up to run it during the day while you are gone. Would save alot on solar right now. 

You could also do like I used to do before I got panels-----I got 2 old small trailers(boat trailers) and put 6 golf cart batteries on each, then every couple days I would pull one of the trailers to my work and let the batteries charge all day with a good size charger, rotate the trailers out. I did this for over 2 years and it worked good for me. I had all the power I needed to run a fridge, lights, tv, etc. Get some panels as you can afford them. If you can not charge the batteries at work, find a neighbor, family member, or friend that will let you charge them at their place, use your killowatt meter to find out what it cost to charge the batteries and pay them for the power usage. Good Luck!!




buck_1one said:


> More or less, not really. Just to keep things short, old house, old wires, no longer hooked to the grid at all, power company won't touch it. Realtor made sure I knew about the power co.
> 
> Best I can come up with, been empty for about two decades give or take and that is when *all* the grid wiring was removed.
> 
> So grid power is really not an option.


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## buck_1one

PD-Riverman said:


> You could also do like I used to do before I got panels-----I got 2 old small trailers(boat trailers) and put 6 golf cart batteries on each, then every couple days I would pull one of the trailers to my work and let the batteries charge all day with a good size charger, rotate the trailers out. I did this for over 2 years and it worked good for me. I had all the power I needed to run a fridge, lights, tv, etc. Get some panels as you can afford them.


Something like this has crossed my mind. Get some batteries and inverter take batteries to work to charge and just change out the sets, until I could do better. That is if the boss would let me.

Or I could get a really really long extension cord and make a visit to the neighbors at dark :hysterical: Kidding... I'm just kidding.


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## buck_1one

TnAndy said:


> Well, is the power line still to the property ?
> 
> I can understand the service drop being removed, but if all they have to do is hang a new transformer, and drop to your service, you should consider grid power. Put a construction temporary in, and for a few hundred bucks, you'll have more power than 20,000 in solar could give you. I know folks that have used a "temporary" service for years.
> 
> Then, over time, you can work on converting to solar as a backup, or even primary if you want.


I'm not sure what you mean by a construction temporary, what is that and how hard is it to get them to take it back out when I don't want it anymore?


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## TnAndy

A construction temporary is just a 4x4 pole in the ground, with a weather head, conduit/wire down to a meter base, and a small ( like 60amp ) service box under it, used to supply temporary power to where something is going to be built. 

Go to virtually any electrical supply place and they usually have the electrical part already made up ready to mount to your 4x4 post. Go to your power company, and get their requirements. Ours will give you a little one page drawing showing what they want....the 4x4, couple 2x4 braces, the ground rod, and so on, before they will connect to it. Temporary service equipment will run you 200-300 bucks, and then, for all intents and purposes, you HAVE power on the place. Just tell the power company you're gonna build a new house/barn/whatever, and need it.

AND you put it in.....they just drop from their pole you yours for the power feed. Here, it's a connection charge of 25-30 bucks. When you're done, they usually just transfer the drop over to the new house/barn/shop building/whatever, and you pull the temp back out of the ground as you're done with it...pull it up, and use it on the next job. They sell them used on Craig's list all the time too.

I've seen people use them for years and years, like where they pull a camper to a place part of the year, so they can have power to the camper. They will usually pay a connection fee every year, then have it disconnected after camper season is over because it's cheaper than paying the minimum service charge for keeping a meter in all year long. ( which runs 11 bucks/month here, use power or not )


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## AgrarianDr

The construction temp post was what I was thinking of as well. Wouldn't want to run an entire house off of it (couldn't actually), but would certainly suffice for running the freezer if your house is near the road/power lines.

Going back to what others have mentioned - Must, Conserve.
Although the freezer may pull X amount, there are still numerous things you could do to make the freezer work less, which would require less.

Not exactly convenient, but simply placing it in a root cellar or crawl space would keep it much cooler, much longer - thereby requiring less energy to maintain. Like wise, keeping a freezer in the garage (as I have known people to do) is just begging for a high power bill


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## TnAndy

AgrarianDr said:


> Like wise, keeping a freezer in the garage (as I have known people to do) is just begging for a high power bill


That would depend on a LOT of factors, so I wouldn't make a blanket statement to that effect.

My garage has 3 freezers in it. The garage is on the north side of the house, gets a lot of shade to boot, and is well insulated. Most of the year, it's far cooler than the interior of the house.


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## buck_1one

As I've mentioned, the freezer is in a hot environment. I know there are a couple of places I could put it, at the new place, that will be much cooler. I'm sure that will help it to draw less, but to what degree I have no clue.

Sense I started this thread, I've been watching the freezer a lot. I never really payed attention to how many times that thing kicks on and off. It seems like every time I turn around it's running again.

I still don't know what I'm going to do about it yet, if things work out for me to get the land. I can see moving day and I'm still scratching my head "what the blank am I going to do with the freezer" lol I guess I could start eating like a hog till it's empty.


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## fantasymaker

Id think along the lines of putting the Freezer in a earth sheltered spot.
Id also look into a amonia type solar fridge.Im not sure if they are adaptable to a freezer but Id think they would be.


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## PD-Riverman

Most anything in a freezer can be "canned" dehydrated. cured, etc, then it does take any electricity. Maybe you can look into that and get busy emptying the freezer by doing that. I just this week emptied a full 7cf freezer by dehydrating everything in it that was dehydratable(4 dehydraters going at one time). About everything in it was vegetables. Good Luck!!





buck_1one said:


> As I've mentioned, the freezer is in a hot environment. I know there are a couple of places I could put it, at the new place, that will be much cooler. I'm sure that will help it to draw less, but to what degree I have no clue.
> 
> Sense I started this thread, I've been watching the freezer a lot. I never really payed attention to how many times that thing kicks on and off. It seems like every time I turn around it's running again.
> 
> I still don't know what I'm going to do about it yet, if things work out for me to get the land. I can see moving day and I'm still scratching my head "what the blank am I going to do with the freezer" lol I guess I could start eating like a hog till it's empty.


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## buck_1one

PD-Riverman said:


> Most anything in a freezer can be "canned" dehydrated. cured, etc, then it does take any electricity. Maybe you can look into that and get busy emptying the freezer by doing that. I just this week emptied a full 7cf freezer by dehydrating everything in it that was dehydratable(4 dehydraters going at one time). About everything in it was vegetables. Good Luck!!


I've been thinking about canning too. Everything in my freezer is meat, no veggies, but this approach might be the best one. I have hundreds of jars, lids, etc, etc, so this would not be a problem.

If things work out, it will be a *HUGE *lifestyle change. Kind of like going backwards 200 years. There will be tons of work to be done, lots of things to learn and many obstacles to overcome. It would make things a little easier if I had a, more or less, ready made meal in a can.

With that in mind I've been eating things that don't lend themselves to easy canning first. If it looks like getting the land is going to happen, then I will start cooking and canning different meals with the meat that is left, until the freezer is empty.

I guess I'll sell the freezers, sense I'll have no use for them. After a while I'll start looking into the solar freezers and a setup for them. I guess that will depend on time, money, job security, economy, etc, etc.

At the very least, it's a plan. More then I had a few weeks ago!!


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## mightybooboo

No need to re-invent the wheel,you can get a sundanzer and a couple panels and you are good to go.Cost wont kill you either.


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