# Americans remind me a lot of Ethiopians



## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I remember when starving Ethiopians were on TV a lot when I was a kid - I'd watch and say "why don't they grow something, or make something, or do something to help themselves?" and the adults would answer "because they got so used to other people taking care of them for so long that they forgot how to take care of themselves."

Yesterday I was driving past empty fields and pastures and thinking "why isn't anybody planting food there, or grazing livestock there?" The area where we live has so many abandoned farms - so obviously it's suitable for farming. People up here don't really know how to farm anymore - they're so used to somebody else grownig their food for them.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Ethiopia doesn't grow food everywhere do to famine type conditions/soil. And some of the subsistence, or starving, people cannot afford seeds. Looking at them like they are lazy is foolish. Laziness has nothing to do with famine or political unrest. Why would they spend what tiny bit of money they have to buy seeds when the crops would be plundered by terroristic gangs anyway? Any pennies the people there get are spent trying to buy some rice to feed their own children. They don't have money to buy seed, then wait four months for it to grow while hoping nobody plunders their crop, and hoping that the crop itself survives drought and grows.

In America they do the stupid "lay aside" type programs where they pay farmers to not grow anything on land. There are two reasons they give for that. First the bunny huggers have pushed it because they feel it is good for the environment to "rest the land". And second because fewer crops make less supply so that prices stay higher. And farmers aren't stupid. They make more money not growing crops when they lay aside land and let the government pay them to do it. If they lay aside land, they don't have to pay laborers to work or harvest. They don't have to worry about wet or dry weather. They don't have to worry about some insect blight. All they have to do is own land, sign up, and make money. We have heard a lot of farm owners talking about how much land they get paid for "lay aside".


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

OK let me rephrase that - Americans remind me of the _myth_ of Ethiopians! We're forgetting how to be self-sufficient as a country. Farmers getting payed to let their fields sit while we get our food from other countries . . . . and a lot of this empty land isn't even owned by farmers. Big empty fields everywhere - we should be growing something in them! I'm not saying tear down forests or anything, just grow something in the fields that are already there!


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I mean - at least they could be growing some hay! The fields are not even growing hay, they're just sitting there going to waste. And people are complaining right and left about how much it costs them to buy fresh produce at Walmart - produce from where? Mexico??


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## TenBusyBees (Jun 15, 2011)

I totally understand what your saying. To get to my dad's I have to drive across three states. When I was a child the entire state I believed was entirely populated by cattle. Now the pastures are empty and overgrown. In his home state it was miles and miles of wheat farms and gorgeous farms. So sad to see barren, unworked fields and abandoned farms. Even the grain mills where abandoned and whole communities gone. It was kind of eerie really.

It's hard for me to grasp the whole food shortage bruehaha when I see all that wasted land not being farmed or grazed and pass by a bajillion hog troughs (all-you-can-eat-buffets). 

It's all about greed for money and power unfortunately.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

A thing called economics :hammer: Try renting a farm and planting a food crop that is labor instinctive and see how it works for you . Or buy equipment and fuel to run it :hobbyhors Here if you have a big garden with a lot of extra if you pick and deliver it you might be able to get rid of it :runforhills:


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

Could you state what states you are talking about? In my experience if their is some money to be made usually someone will take that opportunity. Around here if someone even hints they may rent out a pasture or farmground the offers will overwhelm them. their have been auctions just to rent land.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Ethiopia and Africa are a good example of everyone being equal and all the rest of the leftist mantra. South Africa and one other country (not the same name now, escapes me) could have fed the whole of Africa. But being equal and fair was more important..


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

Could you state what states you are talking about? In my experience if their is some money to be made usually someone will take that opportunity. Around here if someone even hints they may rent out a pasture or farmground the offers will overwhelm them. their have been auctions just to rent land.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

fffarmergirl said:


> I remember when starving Ethiopians were on TV a lot when I was a kid - I'd watch and say "why don't they grow something, or make something, or do something to help themselves?" and the adults would answer "because they got so used to other people taking care of them for so long that they forgot how to take care of themselves."
> 
> Yesterday I was driving past empty fields and pastures and thinking "why isn't anybody planting food there, or grazing livestock there?" The area where we live has so many abandoned farms - so obviously it's suitable for farming. People up here don't really know how to farm anymore - they're so used to somebody else grownig their food for them.


Sure, you can lose money farming till the money is gone. Then you stop farming especially small scale.

Chickens... cost a dollar for the chick, 5 dollars for feed. So for 6 bucks you can have a chicken that's worth about 4.

Cattle, you sure can lose money there. 300 for a steer that will live. Or 100 with a one in two chance plus the cost of milk replacer. So your back at 300. Then feed it hay for a year or so. Cheap hay but good enough would still cost in the range of 4 dollars a day. So that's about 600 for half the year that your pastures aren't producing. So your at 900. For a steer that can be bought at the auction for 800.

Goats and sheep.. :runforhills:

This doesn't include the cost of meds, grain, housing, or fencing. The labor involved is free of course because Americans as a group have all the free time in the world because the economy is so good no one needs to work.

To the OP
How much do you farm and produce?


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Grasping at straws here...might the vacant land you see be poisoned by the constant chemicals spraying to grow crops? Could it also be too small a piece of land for the big corporate farms to bother buying, but too big for one old person to work alone (because their kids wanted an easier life, so they went to work in an office with A/C....working the land is too hard, no time left for Facebook)?


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

if ethiopia is so bad why has saudi bought 1000's of acres of it and drilled wells and set up farms to grow food for their country.i know its dry,hot etc there..but you gotta have a will and drive...and a bit of money.sometimes just a few pennys will get a person on track. theres a program in africa where they are teaching women to farm and they are being very successful.also i seen a story where a relief group donated a tredle pump to a community and they now grow corn in the off season....and the kids take turns pumping water...and they dont need any assistance now with food.

if i was being over ran by rebels i would still be trying to grow something in the bush.

check out permaculture magazine it has tons of these stories and the organizations that are helping with pumps and seeds and a bit of education for long term help.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

[youtube]pIoPxhz-gBs[/youtube]


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

[youtube]1S0eHdHDo6U&feature=related[/youtube]


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

look what pride this guy has in his few acres and how productive it is.


[youtube]ucdsju8FYKw&feature=plcp[/youtube]

[youtube]mMapNsmGuAo&feature=plcp[/youtube]


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

heres 188 videos of outstanding small farmers...i am sure monsanto doesnt want anyone to see...lol

kissankerala - YouTube


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

fffarmergirl said:


> Yesterday I was driving past empty fields and pastures and thinking "why isn't anybody planting food there, or grazing livestock there?" The area where we live has so many abandoned farms - so obviously it's suitable for farming. People up here don't really know how to farm anymore - they're so used to somebody else grownig their food for them.


Probably cause we have ownership laws and planting on somebody else's property without permission is trespassing. Like it or not some people buy land only for investment appreciating over time, arent interested in planting a crop. Yet allowing others to plant on that land could open them up to lawsuits. 

Even govt sends helicopters out looking for those very industrious people growing weeds in the national forests.... Seems like when there is enough profit, people once again learn agriculture, at least these folk do.

So unless you are wealthy enough to buy or rent land, or want to play hide and seek with the black helicopters, you are screwed. Maybe you can get tiny charity plot in community garden in some city... But it wont be big enough for significant production.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Permaculture Magazine - Inspiration for Sustainable Living | Permaculture Magazine


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Haiti or closer to home in the south even, after a disaster shows why. Or next door. Dumb the people down, you can't do it yourself, only the big companies with money can do it. I see people here working together in 2's and 3's planting, tending and growing what they need, even on their rented home lots. Kids even are doing it themselves. The school here is 76% reduced or free lunches. They have an after school program and taught these kids what was a good meal and how to raise it. My Son works in the program and put together a community garden, this summer they are in the park monday, wednesday and friday learning and using this food to feed themselves lunch and teaching and learning for 3 hours. It is growing, kids love it. The community is coming together to help the less fortunate. It affects us all....James


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

bruce2288 said:


> Could you state what states you are talking about? In my experience if their is some money to be made usually someone will take that opportunity. Around here if someone even hints they may rent out a pasture or farmground the offers will overwhelm them. their have been auctions just to rent land.


Michigan's Upper Peninsula - and there are areas around here which are being farmed well and some big areas with wasted farmland. 



Ohio dreamer said:


> ? Could it also be too small a piece of land for the big corporate farms to bother buying, but too big for one old person to work alone (because their kids wanted an easier life, so they went to work in an office with A/C....working the land is too hard, no time left for Facebook)?


That's exactly what it is but it's a crying shame!!!!!!


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Thanks for the videos and links, Elkhound!


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

stanb999 said:


> To the OP
> How much do you farm and produce?


Only a big garden and meat chickens and egg chickens. Everything else is too expensive! 

The economics of the whole thing is just a huge recipe for disaster and famine. If we weren't buying our food for cheap from other countries and Americans didn't take food for granted and paid the same percentage of their income for food that people in other countries do, then we wouldn't be in danger of starving to death if, for some reason, we can't get food cheap from other countries anymore. If we paid what food is REALLY worth, people could afford to grow it!

The value of the dollar is decreasing - for how long will America be on top and be able to let our fields sit fallow while the farm equipments rusts? How long would it take us to get up and running and self supporting again, if it was necessary?

When we bought this farm all the equipment was gone or sitting in the field rusting - why? because it was not economically advantageous for people to keep the place running. Why? Because Americans have an entitlement attitude when it comes to food.

You can't eat money. ONe of these days, we're going to be sorry.

We're buying used equipment wherever we can and trying to get to the point where we can grow more if we need to but we don't have the experience and know-how. Hardly anybody has the experience and know-how to do anything but go to the store and buy stuff.

It's scary to me.


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## poorboy (Apr 15, 2006)

Get experience by doing..start small, but get started..!


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

fffarmergirl said:


> I remember when starving Ethiopians were on TV a lot when I was a kid - I'd watch and say "why don't they grow something, or make something, or do something to help themselves?" and the adults would answer "because they got so used to other people taking care of them for so long that they forgot how to take care of themselves."



Ethiopia was in a decades long drought, that's why it was used as a poster country for starving children, not because they got used to others taking care of them. The country is approximately twice the size of Texas and has a number of different growing conditions in its borders.
They do grow food there and their food is some of the best I have tasted. Nothing beats; Doro Tibs (a chicken dish) or Tikel Gomen (a cabbage dish) or even Fosolia (a green bean dish) all served with Injeria (a flat crepe looking type of bread made with Teff - a small grain) as your utensil. They also use a lot of lentils in their cooking. Its very basic homestead style food mildly spiced, but it is different spices than Americans are used to (good but different). 
If you ever get a chance to eat at an Ethiopian restaurant: go for it.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

fffarmergirl said:


> Only a big garden and meat chickens and egg chickens. Everything else is too expensive!
> 
> The economics of the whole thing is just a huge recipe for disaster and famine. If we weren't buying our food for cheap from other countries and Americans didn't take food for granted and paid the same percentage of their income for food that people in other countries do, then we wouldn't be in danger of starving to death if, for some reason, we can't get food cheap from other countries anymore. If we paid what food is REALLY worth, people could afford to grow it!
> 
> ...


Well that is what I thought. Others should do things to lose money but you can't afford it. Seems a little hypocritical. No? Maybe they are in the same position.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

stanb999 said:


> Well that is what I thought. Others should do things to lose money but you can't afford it. Seems a little hypocritical. No? Maybe they are in the same position.


None of our land is going to waste - we let the neighbor hay it. 

But yes - people are in the position of not being able to afford to put the land to good use, and that's a terrible shame considering the "food shortage."


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

There is no food shortage in America. America grows and exports more food than it imports, it's the world's leading exporter of food products.

If somebody's land is sitting there going fallow, why does that mean that the owners have to be doing something with it just because somebody else disapproves of the owners being unproductive to somebody else's way of thinking?

If I had a large parcel of land and decided to not do anything with it (for whatever reason I had) and somebody else was complaining and trying to tell me what I should be doing with my own land I'd tell them to mind their own business and go jump in a lake.

.


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## stickinthemud (Sep 10, 2003)

For one thing, dairy farming has changed. Once there were numerous local farmers with a few dozen cows grazing in the fields. Today the industry has consolidated into mega-farms milking hundreds ofr thousands of head of BST-enhanced cattle. Feed is trucked in and the milk is often shipped long distances. Those local fields have grown up into brush or strip malls and housing developments. DD the horse owner wonders why there isn't more hay being produced.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

I don't see any problem with a field sitting empty. We've got a large pasture we don't use for livestock or crops. We do have a garden up by the house, which supplies our family with all the veggies we need most of the year, but other than bushhogging the pasture once in a while we don't do anything with it.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

After reading the initial post that started the thread.. all I thought was
"sigh.. yea. There's too many sheeple in this country."

As a child, someone answered her pondering with "they've become used to it" so, it's pretty logical why she may equate that thought with what looks familiar here nowadays. 

The US, as a whole, HAS become used to food and a whole lot more being at their beckon call.

Can't figure out how agreeing with that assessment has anything to do with hairsplittin over judging people or not and whether there's acceptable reason vacant land may exist, etc. None of that junk played in my mind til a buncha posts planted it. :hrm:


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2012)

It's good to rest the soil once in awhile. As long as it is growing something in it to stop it from blowing away.

Besides it's really not how much we grow in this country that is the problem.
It's getting it to those who need that is the problem.


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## sweetbabyjane (Oct 21, 2002)

The animals are probably happy there is still some unused land...

SBJ


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

elkhound said:


> Permaculture Magazine - Inspiration for Sustainable Living | Permaculture Magazine


Here's the US version.

Permaculture Activist Magazine


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Darren said:


> Here's the US version.
> 
> Permaculture Activist Magazine


thanks darren...you must be close by me...good to meet ya neighbor.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

HermitJohn said:


> Probably cause we have ownership laws and planting on somebody else's property without permission is trespassing. Like it or not some people buy land only for investment appreciating over time, arent interested in planting a crop. Yet allowing others to plant on that land could open them up to lawsuits.
> 
> Even govt sends helicopters out looking for those very industrious people growing weeds in the national forests.... Seems like when there is enough profit, people once again learn agriculture, at least these folk do.
> 
> So unless you are wealthy enough to buy or rent land, or want to play hide and seek with the black helicopters, you are screwed. Maybe you can get tiny charity plot in community garden in some city... But it wont be big enough for significant production.


This. I would gladly farm, but I have no land. I would gladly farm someone else's land and split the income with them, if I could be assured of being able to farm that land long enough to benefit from soil amendments, work, etc put into it. A single season just eats up labor with very little return; you really need to work a piece of land for a few years before the soil is good. Starting over new each season isn't very feasible. For example, the store where I work would like to sell organic or sustainably grown cutflowers. I could plant flower bulbs- tulips, narcissus, etc, but I need a place to be able to plant in the fal, harvest in the spring, and ideally to do this for several years. Those bulbs are too expensive to plant in the fall and have to walk away from them without being able to cut them in the following spring.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Why worry about it you can go to any super market and but all the vegetables you want. You can go to any super market and buy all the fruit you want. You can go to any super market and buy all the meat you want with out harming any animal.
I know that most of you think that the vegetables you grow taste better than what you can buy or fruit or meat but in reality it taste better because you make it your self.


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## longshot38 (Dec 19, 2006)

Old Vet said:


> Why worry about it you can go to any super market and but all the vegetables you want. You can go to any super market and buy all the fruit you want. You can go to any super market and buy all the meat you want with out harming any animal.
> I know that most of you think that the vegetables you grow taste better than what you can buy or fruit or meat but in reality it taste better because you make it your self.



not sure if my sarcasm meter is off the scale or my BS meter, either way LOL.


dean


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

The supermarket often doesn't have what I want and no, the quality is not the same even when they do have it. No way does a store tomato taste anything like a vine ripened Brandywine.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2012)

Old Vet said:


> Why worry about it you can go to any super market and but all the vegetables you want. You can go to any super market and buy all the fruit you want. You can go to any super market and buy all the meat you want with out harming any animal.
> I know that most of you think that the vegetables you grow taste better than what you can buy or fruit or meat but in reality it taste better because you make it your self.


They taste better because I can pick them and eat them with out them being shipped across the country first.
If people could taste them, they would understand. But if all you've tasted is the store bought stuff i could see people not understanding why it's better to grow your own.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

chamoisee said:


> The supermarket often doesn't have what I want and no, the quality is not the same even when they do have it. No way does a store tomato taste anything like a vine ripened Brandywine.





veggiecanner said:


> They taste better because I can pick them and eat them with out them being shipped across the country first.
> If people could taste them, they would understand. But if all you've tasted is the store bought stuff i could see people not understanding why it's better to grow your own.


amen !!!!!!


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I haven't read the entire thread, but the first two posts just raise some curiosities in me.

How do starving people, who live on 130 degree rock and sand where there is no chance to grow food or improve their lot continue to successfully reproduce to the end that that are far too many to feed ?

Simple. 

Doesn't happen.

We were being lied to about some key element of that situation, for political reasons or other wise, then, as we are now.

As to the intent of the OP....why don't people do for themselves here, where there is opportunity to do so ?

Good question, other than the obvious.
Junk food is cheap, AC feels good, and the welfare checks are still showing up.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2012)

Alot of the food that might be grown on the empty land would be exported any way. What that does is lower food prices in other countries. While that sounds good, it hurts farmers in those countries and makes the countrys even less able to support themselves.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

I lived in Ethiopia from ages 6-9. We lived out in the bush and my dad taught farming. Then in the 80's my parents went back to run a relief agency. 

The famine in Ethiopia was caused in part by drought, but mostly by the communists. In order to keep down rebellion they moved people from one part of the country to another where they did not no the climate, land or even the language. Then they made everyone live in a village instead of on their own farms. They also put in a night time curfew so the people that were walking 4hrs one way just to get to their assigned plot of land weren't allowed to be there at night to protect it from 2/4 legged predators. Ever seen what a herd of wild pigs can do to a field, or a troop of monkeys?

Sadly the many of the people have become dependent on aid. And as that has become more pervasive they have started to develop an entitlement mentality. In the 70's they were grateful for whatever help they got - by the 00's they were demanding more and better aid.

Ethiopia is near the equator, but most parts are high in elevation - which is why coffee grows so well there. In fact, most of Ethiopia can grow very good crops, but again the government is preventing a lot of it from happening in order to keep rebellion down.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

When I was a kid in the 70's we had farms on either side of us...each had 2 milk cows and we bought our milk from our neighbors....do that today and the farmer will have HEck to pay if caught....
Cheap summer labor was the 12-15 yo of the community....oh for shame today they must stay inside eat processed crap and get fat and play video games. We used to hay, pick green beans, and blueberries to earn school clothes money starting at 11 or 12.
Vacant land is a sorry sight and so are all the fat kids these days....

An aside...when I went to the food pantry to get pig food this week the shelves were virtually empty....the attendees were not thin like the Ethiopians though....in fact 9 out of 10 were overweight.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

chamoisee, If you are truly serious about raising and selling flowers. Get out there and get some land rented, get a 5 yr lease. Cut flowers, I am certain that it would not take too big of a piece of ground to be a full time job. You might get turned down a few times but if you persist you will get some land, but if this is just I wish idle talk, never mind.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2012)

not sure flowers are going to solve the food shortages.

But any organic vegetables would probably sell well at a farmers market.

I am not sure if it would be easy to work some one elses land. They would be very particular with what you put in and on it.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Wags said:


> I lived in Ethiopia from ages 6-9. We lived out in the bush and my dad taught farming. Then in the 80's my parents went back to run a relief agency.
> 
> The famine in Ethiopia was caused in part by drought, but mostly by the communists. In order to keep down rebellion they moved people from one part of the country to another where they did not no the climate, land or even the language. Then they made everyone live in a village instead of on their own farms. They also put in a night time curfew so the people that were walking 4hrs one way just to get to their assigned plot of land weren't allowed to be there at night to protect it from 2/4 legged predators. Ever seen what a herd of wild pigs can do to a field, or a troop of monkeys?
> 
> ...


Sounds pretty close to what they did to the northern Canadian Natives from the 30s though the 60s............which, of course, is not far removed from what was done to their southern brothers in the late 1800s.

Send food....indeed.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Several people on here seem to understand exactly the point I was trying to make, without being too wordy. Other people don't.

I didn't think that I would have to actually come out and say that I don't believe what the adults were saying about the starvation that was happening in Ethiopia when I was a kid was true - I am comparing America's true attitude with the attitude that people ignorantly accused Ethiopians of having. I didn't think I would have to be so wordy.

I also don't think that any person should tell any other person what to do with their land. There aren't many people on this forum who believe anybody should be able to tell anybody else what to do with their own lives and possessions, families, etc.

What I was TRYING to say is that we Americans, in general, believe that food is cheap. Because we don't pay much money for it, we don't realize its value. Because of this, people can't afford to grow food. If growing food was profitable, the fields would be full and this country would be more self-sustaining. 

There are a lot of people on this forum who do believe that there's a good chance the United States is headed toward some kind of famine - whether caused by nature, politics, whatever.

It is my opinion that it is our entitlement attitude toward food, our ignorant belief that food is not worth paying for, and our willingness to put our own stomachs into the hands of others, that is putting us in danger of a true famine. The evidence is that these small farms are no longer being farmed. The farm houses are empty and falling down and the fields are abandoned and filled with weeds, because people believe that every job is more valuable than that of a farmer


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Why didn't you say that in the first place. Beating around the bush doesn't work so well here.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I don't know - I guess I figured everybody could read minds.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

mpillow said:


> When I was a kid in the 70's we had farms on either side of us...each had 2 milk cows and we bought our milk from our neighbors....do that today and the farmer will have HEck to pay if caught....
> Cheap summer labor was the 12-15 yo of the community....oh for shame today they must stay inside eat processed crap and get fat and play video games. We used to hay, pick green beans, and blueberries to earn school clothes money starting at 11 or 12.
> Vacant land is a sorry sight and so are all the fat kids these days....
> 
> ...


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I do appreciate your point, Fff. 

People here do not realize the value of food.

Someday, likely soon, they will.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

fffarmergirl said:


> Several people on here seem to understand exactly the point I was trying to make, without being too wordy. Other people don't.
> 
> I didn't think that I would have to actually come out and say that I don't believe what the adults were saying about the starvation that was happening in Ethiopia when I was a kid was true - I am comparing America's true attitude with the attitude that people ignorantly accused Ethiopians of having. I didn't think I would have to be so wordy.
> 
> ...


An now that you've explained your true intention and statements - 
What are you going to do about it to survive and be more prepared?

What are you doing to change this as it effects you?
And I'd say this forum does know the cost of food, maybe you were referring to this site overall. But then, I wonder since we have the preserving forum, the cooking forum, the livestock forums, just to name many of them. So I'd say this group knows more about the true cost of food than some of the more citifed sites that are loose on the internet.

Now, really -


> It is my opinion that it is our entitlement attitude toward food, our ignorant belief that food is not worth paying for, and our willingness to put our own stomachs into the hands of others, that is putting us in danger of a true famine.


I see many elsewhere, and few here with this 'entitlement' attitude toward food. I see people trying their darndest to get some land to be able to grow a little bit of food; etc. I see people here growing what they can, and saving it as they can - and I see at least one trying to keep his little plot, but the big bankers have messed with house financing so badly that it doesn't work now.

So, while you're probably right about many things - this particular forum and most of this site, does not fit your premise.


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2012)

In the same situation, if we over use our lands feeding the world, when that famine comes we will be in an even worse situation.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Right, Angie - I shared my opinion because I thought a lot of people would get it . . . but that would just be redundant, anyway, right?

What we're doing is growing as much food as we can, even though at this point in time growing it costs as much as or more than buying it. We're spending most of our expendable time and income getting self-sufficient in food production, rather than in food storage. Of course we have food stored but I feel that investing in growing it is a better plan for the long term.

Instead of asking "what do you want to watch on TV tonight," we ask "what do you want to can tonight?" It's become our entertainment and way of relaxing.

If we can break even or even lose a little $ on something that produces food and gives us experience, that's what we're going to do.

Neither of us were farmers before, and sometimes I feel like maybe I'm a little bit retarded when it comes to gardening, I just learn it so slowly. Of course we started out surrounded by acres and acres of quack grass that was literally planted there, and we have very stony soil. We're working on it, though. It's a lot harder than buying a bucket of survival seeds, that's for sure.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Good on becoming part of the solution and taking care of yourself.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Veggiecanner - at least where I'm at, we're a faaaaaaaaaar cry from overusing our land. The places I'm talking about have been sitting fallow for a decade. And I never said anything about feeding the rest of the world. We could just not import food from them. Then they'd be forced to sell their own food to their own people at prices their people can afford.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Forerunner said:


> I do appreciate your point, Fff.
> 
> People here do not realize the value of food.
> 
> Someday, likely soon, they will.


ROFLOL you are sure good at putting it in a nut shell! If I'd have just said it that way to start with, it would have avoided a lot of confusion.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

longshot38 said:


> not sure if my sarcasm meter is off the scale or my BS meter, either way LOL.
> 
> 
> dean


It was said in sarcasm. I have heard that all my life even about the meat. Most of the people do not know where their food comes from or how to get it if the Grocery store shuts down. I have always said that most people could stand in a garden with a cow and starve to death because they don't know what feeds them.


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2012)

fffarmergirl said:


> Veggiecanner - at least where I'm at, we're a faaaaaaaaaar cry from overusing our land. The places I'm talking about have been sitting fallow for a decade. And I never said anything about feeding the rest of the world. We could just not import food from them. Then they'd be forced to sell their own food to their own people at prices their people can afford.


I see our grocery stores, there is not a shortage of food in this country. It might be expensive, But that is because of the money policy of the goverment. Not because there is a shortage.

Now in other countries they cann't always raise enough food. As much as i want them to have enough food ruining our farm land won't help to do it.

I guess if your worried about it, you could buy only grown in the US food.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

fffarmergirl, americans started loosing the ability to grow food for itself back in the 1800's when we started becoming a industrialized nation. No need to raise your own food if you have a job and can buy food. Then in the mid 1900's they came out with this stuff called free comotities, social security, retirement, foodstamps, and various other stuff. 

Then to add insult, other countries have became industrialized and now compete with us on the market, meaning there's less demand worldwide from america. So now day unless you become a huge big time farmer with millions in debt for equipment, then you have no future to grow things. The smaller farmer is giving in to the big time farmers, and the majority of people have no need to farm so long as we can rely on government handouts.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

veggiecanner said:


> I see our grocery stores, there is not a shortage of food in this country. It might be expensive, But that is because of the money policy of the goverment. Not because there is a shortage.
> 
> Now in other countries they cann't always raise enough food. As much as i want them to have enough food ruining our farm land won't help to do it.
> 
> I guess if your worried about it, you could buy only grown in the US food.



Our grocery stores look full because nobody wants America to be in a full-scale panic. America's food surplus is rapidly dwindling and you can see some evidence of this when you look at the increasing costs of food and the smaller amounts of food per package. If you know any people who get government surplus, you can hear them talk about how they're not getting a lot of the things they used to get - because those things have been used up. As a home health nurse, I take care of a lot of people who get government surplus and I hear it from all of them. They don't get high protein foods anymore, except for the surplus cheese - they're still getting that. The tuna, peanut butter, etc. are all gone.

Although the food prices have increased, our food is very far from expensive. It is still dirt cheap compared to the price of food in other countries. A much larger percentage of their income goes toward food.

The people in this country, in general, will not have enough warning that a food shortage is coming because politicians will do everything in their power to ensure grocery store shelves appear to be full, until it's impossible to keep food on the shelves anymore. That won't happen until all of the surplus is gone.

In Ethiopia, the people are under the thumb of government and gangster types who control the food. If you have control over people's food, you have control over the people. Ethiopia should serve as an example for us. We should not allow mobsters and government to control our food.

Walmart represents America's buying habits. Go to Walmart and look - what is cheap? Macaroni? Where does the macaroni come from? America? Macaroni comes from wheat. Wheat is cheap because it's easy to grow and harvest and process (only by people with million dollar combines, though). Where do the tomatoes come from? Mexico? Tomatoes require a lot of hard work but they can be grown by regular people without million dollar combines. I don't know if it's true or not - because how do you really check to see if anything is true? - but I have heard that the meat from Walmart doesn't all come from America. 

The food we can get for cheap in this country is food made out of things that can be grown on a huge agricultural scale by factory farms with million dollar combines. Foods made from wheat are cheap. Do we want the government and people who can afford million dollar combines to control us?

The only way we can prevent such a problem from happening is by buying local food - not just American-grown food, LOCALLY grown food. If we want safety, we need to keep our local farmers in business.

If concern over famine and food storage/control of food wasn't present in a very large degree, this forum would not exist.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

Cut flowers are actually a high demand item. My cousin used to sell in a farmers market in Madison,Wisc. He said women would gripe and moan that his tomatoes were 5 cents a pound higher than at the other end of the market, then when paying for their produce grab a $5 bunch of cut flowers and never bat an eye. I have also heard people complain about $2/lb hamburger and just spent $500 on a puppy. People want to spend money on what they want and resent spending on what they need. I am the same way I wish I could take a vacation instead on paying health insurance one month.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

If I was a conspiracy theorist, God love 'em, I'd have to wonder if food wasn't artificially kept cheap in this country just so no one would bother to grow any for themselves.

You know, keep everyone entertained with all manner of wasting of time that could (should?) be spent learning gardening, teaching gardening to offspring, etc. and thereby maintaining the foundation for freedom, i.e. self reliance.

:huh:


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Forerunner said:


> If I was a conspiracy theorist, God love 'em, I'd have to wonder if food wasn't artificially kept cheap in this country just so no one would bother to grow any for themselves.
> 
> You know, keep everyone entertained with all manner of wasting of time that could (should?) be spent learning gardening, teaching gardening to offspring, etc. and thereby maintaining the foundation for freedom, i.e. self reliance.
> 
> :huh:



yea...but you and i and a few others know how it turns out...'days wage for a loaf of bread'....something happens to get to that point...just sayin.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Well, I have several loaves of bread in the granary, waiting for day laborers. :grin:


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

bruce2288 said:


> chamoisee, If you are truly serious about raising and selling flowers. Get out there and get some land rented, get a 5 yr lease. Cut flowers, I am certain that it would not take too big of a piece of ground to be a full time job. You might get turned down a few times but if you persist you will get some land, but if this is just I wish idle talk, never mind.


Bruce, I don't know that I could live off growing flowers, nor would I try to until I was sure it could be done...but it would be a nice side income. What I wanted to do was to have an organic apple orchard with daffodils, narcissus and other flowers that gophers can't eat growing right near the base of the apple trees, herbs and possibly wildflowers along with alfalfa, comfrey, etc a little further away, and allowing rare breed chickens to graze under the trees. Could sell eggs to eat, hatching eggs, chicks, meat chickens, etc....along with the fruit, herbs, flowers, and chickens reduce the incidence of codling moth larva damage. 

But to find a lease that is long enough to allow the investment of fruit trees.... I should try just the flowers though. There has got to be a little patch of land I could borrow or something. 

Winter squash: I have grown and sold this before and have a market for it. I was unable to locate a place large enough with water...and unlike daffodils, squash must have water for most of the summer. I did, however, plant a community garden plot with garlic. It was pretty much the only crop that would pay back the cost of the plot and that didn't need a lot of babysitting. Garlic braids seem to sell for more than plain eating garlic.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2012)

bruce2288 said:


> Cut flowers are actually a high demand item. My cousin used to sell in a farmers market in Madison,Wisc. He said women would gripe and moan that his tomatoes were 5 cents a pound higher than at the other end of the market, then when paying for their produce grab a $5 bunch of cut flowers and never bat an eye. I have also heard people complain about $2/lb hamburger and just spent $500 on a puppy. People want to spend money on what they want and resent spending on what they need. I am the same way I wish I could take a vacation instead on paying health insurance one month.


I wasn't saying they wouldn't sell, i was just saying you can't eat them.


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