# How to get the sheep to accept the new LGD?



## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

My sheep are totally freaked out by the new Anatolian pups. For now, the pups are housed in a pen next to the rams (15 month Barbados Blackbelly who was raised with Maremma, and a 5 month old Katahdin). The Blackbelly savagly rams the fence between them whenever a pup gets too close. When the pups go with me in the mornings to let the rest ewes out of the pasture, the sheep act as though I have brought a savage monster out to see them. How can I get my sheep to accept these pups without trying to kill them? Most of my ewes are lambs from this year. Two of them are adult Barbados Blackbelly sheep and I believe it's those two that are teaching the rest of the sheep to be fearful and flighty. The lambs are katahdins (4) and Barbados blackbelly sheep (4). I am thinking I may need to cull those two adult ewes in order to tame the rest of the sheep down and get them to accept these pups. any advise for me?


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I penned up my LGD's with the ewes in a seperate pen like you did, but I didnt have a ram in there. I had one ewe that kept running so the dogs would chase her, I had to stay on top of it to make the ewe and dogs stop. She finally did and now when they get excited the ewes just stand there and let them play around without running their fool heads off. The ewes now walk on them and over them they let them lick their face. And my boys just lay there.

Now, I havent let them in with the Rams all by themselves without me in there. The dogs are not scared of them and think they are nice and they are not. My dogs do not understand to get out of their way yet, because the ewes do not charge them.

So I will wait to see what others have to say about this. Also my rams have issues with dogs because a coyote ate one of their buddies.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks for the suggestions. I think the lambs all WANT to be tame (they will cautiously come up to me if I have a feed bucket) but those two adult ewes are so jumpy they keep the lambs jumpy too. I think I may move the two ewes in with the rams for now and leave all the lambs in the paddock. I'll put up a stock panel pen for the pups in the paddock so the lambs can calm down and get used to the sight of them. The lambs will have to be on hay during this period but I have plenty so no problem there. Those two jumpy adult ewes might just have to go to the sale after they have lambed. I knew Barbados Blackbellys were a little flighty, but this is crazy! It's almost like having white tailed deer penned up!


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

Don't panic, don't cull yet...grin.....this is going to take some time so don't give up yet!

Of course you want your pups not to get hurt, #1 priority...

I go through this when I bring in new baby goats. The baby goats panic and run, and my dogs will think, aha! I must run after them, and bring them back to the rest of the herd....they eventually do settle down, and assimilate, but it takes weeks sometimes months. But you are building a guardian team that is going to protect for years so this is investment in time that will pay off in the end, keep reminding yourself of that when you get frustrated!

What I would do - just my thoughts - is there a way you can take a few of the lambs and put in a smaller enclosed area with pups for awhile each day? When I say smaller, I mean a small area fenced in or pen, not big pasture. Do your sheep come to you if you have grain? When you bring those pups in to this smaller area, bring your grain pail, reward the lambs...let the pups sniff them. It will take time. I wouldn't even leave them in all day yet, an hour here, and there....gradual, until you see how lambs act. Another oft-used plan is putting the pups in a small but sturdy mini-enclosure in the pasture so the sheep can see them but can't get to them. Make sure they have shade, water, food in this enclosure. 

My experience has been: smaller the area for introductions, the better, you maintain more control, and critters are forced to be nearer the pups, can't just gallop off to the 'back 40' and ignore pups. You want them to meet but not be harmed. 

You may have to separate the aggressive sheep for a spell from the whole mix if they are posing danger to pups, and they definitely could hurt or kill a pup at this tender young stage.

It'll take you hanging out with them while you are doing these intros, to watch and monitor, especially since you don't have older broke dog or dogs to intervene and protect pups (and sheep). One of the luxuries of running a ton of dogs, I have all ages here, I have dogs that will literally run interference if pups get to chasing goats or, a goat goes after a pup, I've had dogs step in and shove and chase the goat off. (Yes I'm baiting you to buy even more puppies, lol!). Again, not saying everyone can do it, but there are huge advantages to running many dogs and staggering the ages, you will never be 'pants down' without protection, and older dogs will not only show pups the ropes, but, protect them and correct them.

Don't give up. New pups, new sheep/goats this is always a transition time, and takes TIME. You won't see it overnight. The sheep WILL settle eventually. You mentioned the one sheep had been around dogs before but what I've experienced personally has been that sometimes a small pup or puppies will surprise sheep that have been around older dogs. Its like the size sets them off. They don't know what to think! But they will eventually settle although sometimes you may end up with one or two that are always grumpy around pups and dogs - those are the ones you just watch and don't let the pups be vulnerable.

You may have to like I said, move the bullies out until pups can fend for themselves and you are talking months before they'll be able to be in there and not get hurt, alone.

Pups usually go through a play stage, I have had one exception, I held back the biggest male pup out of my last Kangal/Anatolian/Maremma litter he has never played with the goats and has only wanted to guard and watch, which is wonderful. But when your boys want to start playing it'll take correction on your part of course. But be patient....see what you can rig up for temporary 'training' area. A place where pups can meet lambs, but not get wiped out by the big guys. Even if you just do this hour at a time, then increase time, till you can take them out of it. Remember as they grow their confidence will grow and physical ability to move out of the way if a ram should charge, but now, they are very vulnerable. Take your time, be patient (do I hear an echo?) and don't give up. We all go through versions of this....some get 'dog broke' faster than others, there is no set time or rule or 'right and wrong', everyone has different results and time frames. I know others will chip in too and give you their versions of how they do it and their experiences..... Just think a year from now these boys will be broke, and you can bring in another pair of pups and they'll be there to protect them, grin!!!!!!


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I agree with goatress and she and others have helped me train my new LGD's. The pups lived in a small pen during the night with the ewes, and a bigger pen in the paddock during the day.

I had one mean ewe that would head butt them, but now they are bigger and she now lets them lick her face. Funny how that worked out.
But it was a lot of work..I allowed them out time with the sheep only when I was home and out there to correct them both. I was running like a crazy woman correcting the dogs and getting on to Penolope the mean ewe. They all get along now. Like Goatress said be patient you will get there.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks for that great wisdom. This will be a challange, but I knew that going into it. lol! The pasture isn't huge. The section they are in now is only a couple of acres. I bring the sheep into a paddock every night that's probably 30' by 100' (just a rough guess). I think this evening I'll try to get a stock panel pen put up in there for the pups. That way the sheep will have to be close to the pups. A couple of the sheep are much tamer. I'll bring them into the pup's pen for a few hours at a time for feeding. The sheep don't get fed (unless I need to move them or get them into the paddock) so they are pretty food-motivated. I think I can convince them that coming into the pup's pen is a good idea.


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## RanchoMadonna (Feb 20, 2011)

We have both blackbelly sheep and boer goats. We have 4 LGDs: 1- 6 yr old pyr who is very laid back and who we now realize is harry houdini in a white fur coat. She can get out of ANYPLACE. We have accepted the fact that she is really the "fence patrol" rather than a livestock guardian. She shows us ALL the places where anything can get through our fences. She spends the night in a pen with the highest fence and logs buried all along the bottom of the fence. The goats are in with her and they tolerate each other. During the day she usually stays in the pasture where the sheep and goats are but she goes AWOL on a regular basis & doesn't seem at all bonded to either.

Our blackbelly sheep ARE flighty! [remember, they were crossed with mouflon. They are kind of feral] We have a 4 year old Kuvasz, Jeremiah, who spends the night in the pen with them. He's very hyper otherwise but gentle with the sheep and lambs. they have FINALLY [after a year] stopped running away from him. He's also rather intimidated by larger animals. He really barks like crazy at our 3 cow, who live on the back pasture, when we take the 4 dogs for their morning walk. we're working on exterminating this barking, but haven't been able to so far. Jere stays in the pasture where the sheep and goats are during the day but doesn't really stay with them. He does seem to keep alert for what's going on and runs up the hill to bark when he hears something down the way.

Molly & Gus, 15 month old Akbash, spend the night in the pasture, which is next to these pens. they have done a great job of keeping the coyotes & mountain lions from coming into the pasture. We have been working with them for almost 8 months & we still can't trust them alone in the pasture with the sheep. they are OK with goats, who won't run, but we don't know if we will ever be able to use them as we had intended. Molly, who wants to be alpha, has instigated several chasing incidents that involved Gus and Jeremiah and injured a ewe. Fortunately we were able to get to the ewe and treated her so that she recovered. 

It's only since our sheep herd got bigger [we now have about 20 ewes and lambs that go out into the pasture every morning] that they have seemed to calm down a little bit when the dogs are near them. They still take off running across the pasture most of the time when Gus or Molly get too close & we keep Molly on a long leash when we are walking in the morning so that we don't have a repeat of the last chase & bite incident.

We were just talking @ dinner tonight about if we will EVER have dogs that actually follow the sheep [or the goats] around [without chasing] instead of preferring to hang out down by the barn pens. Guess time will tell.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

I tried to catch the leader of my sheep flock last night so I could move her out of there. She was much tamer when I had her locked in the small paddock while finishing the fencing for the pasture. Now that she has been in the field for a couple of months, she is nearly as wild as a White Tail Deer. She is so suspicious and flighty and as soon as she tenses up to run, the entire flock follows her. I don't know how I am going to catch her. I am afraid if I push her, she will jump the fence. She has got to get out of that flock or I'll never tame any of the lambs down. Thank God she has a collar on....it will be much easier grabbing her when I do manage to lure her in closer. The current plan is to bring a bucket of feed in the paddock each evening and let the lambs eat out of it (which they will). Penny (the ring leader) wants some of that feed badly and snuck in pretty close last night, not close enough for me to grab her collar though. I think if I go in there every evening and do this, she will slip up and get close enough for me to get her. And then she goes in with the rams and I can start working with the rest of them. the other adult in the lamb pen was with LGDs so I am hoping without Penny in there, she will calm down. Then I'll bring the one pup in the paddock and pen him in a separate pen.


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