# Need a farm dog



## Madeline (Jul 4, 2017)

We're buying a little farmhouse and plan on getting a good old farm dog. Eventually we hope to have chickens and goats and I want a dog that will protect and watch out for the animals and my children. We hope to get a puppy this fall but not getting livestock until next spring. Wil he be too old to learn how to get along with them?
I would love to get a rescue puppy but I also want a breed that will work well in the country. We plan on keeping him in the house while he's a puppy but eventually would like to keep him in one of the outbuildings with proper heating and shelter and food and water. We live in Minnesota so he definitely needs to be a cold weather hearty dog. 

Any advice on breed?
Where to get him?
How/when to introduce him to animals? 
Where to keep him outside? 


Thank you for your help


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Black lab is my favorite breed


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

Where are you located?

I have one I would like to give away, our fencing isnt good enough for her. She is good wth the livestock and loves babies/kids but she will run if given the opportunity. She currently lives outside already. Her mom was our now passed away border collie cross, and dad was who knows what (I suspect a hound or cross). Beautiful sweet dog, just a runner. 45-50 lbs or so.
Late 2015 model doggie


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## Madeline (Jul 4, 2017)

ShannonR said:


> Where are you located?
> 
> I have one I would like to give away, our fencing isnt good enough for her. She is good wth the livestock and loves babies/kids but she will run if given the opportunity. She currently lives outside already. Her mom was our now passed away border collie cross, and dad was who knows what (I suspect a hound or cross). Beautiful sweet dog, just a runner. 45-50 lbs or so.
> Late 2015 model doggie


Southeast Minnesota near Rochester. Where are you?


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

Whether or not you have a good ol farm dog or a monstrosity would depend on training and what you expect from the dog.

Do you want a dog that will just bark when it sees something it doesn't recognize? Just go to the pound and get a nice dog that's willing to bark. Even a toy breed could do that. My sister has a chinese crested that does that.
Do you want a dog big enough to intimidate other humans, but loves your family? Labs are a great choice, but probably won't actually do anything but bark at strangers and are more likely to run than confront them. Pits can be as well, they're great with kids, protective of children but you would have to pick carefully to get one that's also livestock safe. Still, my sister owns a pit mix that loves everyone and doesn't even touch her cats or my chickens and rabbits. Rescues are overwhelmed with pits and pit mixes so you really can have the cream of the crop by picking a pit and you can be extremely choosy. There's lots of family guard dogs. Rotties and german shepherds are pretty great too.
Do you expect the dog to keep the livestock safe overnight or while you are away? You need a real honest to goodness livestock guardian dog for that. Mixes will probably not suffice. They will not live well as an indoor/outdoor dog for the kids. They will be focused on protecting their flock.

No matter what you get, training is key and supervision is important. No dog is inherently 100% safe around kids, no dog will do what you want without a stable household, clear boundaries, and consistent training.


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

Madeline said:


> Southeast Minnesota near Rochester. Where are you?


California.

As to the above, this is a matter of opinion but I have had BAD experience with pitbulls on the farm.

Thwy are mentally unstable, just snap one day and decide to eat their owners, or kids. I have lost dozens of chickens to a neighbor's $#!tbull....we don't call em that for nothing either, boy howdy!


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

They get a bad rap, but they're good dogs. I am sorry you had a bad experience. But they're not gonna be worse than any other terrier breed. Science backs this up. They even have a very large temperament test sample size;
https://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/
http://dogtime.com/dog-health/general/1220-american-pit-bull-terrier-temperament-dog-bites (summation of the above data with videos showing how the testing works).

They're good dogs, Brent. 

But really, I can't emphasize training enough. Training will make or break a dog more than any genetic temperament.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

ShannonR said:


> California.
> 
> As to the above, this is a matter of opinion but I have had BAD experience with pitbulls on the farm.



I agree with you Shannon. Ive known two raised by excellent owners with consistent training. One greeted her returning owner covered in blood and gore, because in the owners absence she torn apart the other dog she'd been raised from puppyhood with (no history of fighting between the two...it came out of the blue) and the other belonged to our dressage trainer who was the sweetest, most lovable goofball until she (with tail wagging) lunged snarling and aggressively at two little boys walking by us while I had her on a leash. They did nothing aggressive and hadn't paid any attention to the pit. She ended up mauling another dog at a park.
as a matter of statistics as well, pit bulls are not good with children.
The nanny dog myth has been debunked and even pit bull advocacy groups admit this. From BadRap's Facebook page. Can't save the link on my iPad


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

ChocolateMouse said:


> They get a bad rap, but they're good dogs. I am sorry you had a bad experience. But they're not gonna be worse than any other terrier breed. Science backs this up. They even have a very large temperament test sample size;
> https://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/
> http://dogtime.com/dog-health/general/1220-american-pit-bull-terrier-temperament-dog-bites (summation of the above data with videos showing how the testing works).
> 
> ...



I'm sorry but that's BS. I have Great Pyrenees to guard my livestock and border collies to herd. Because they were bred selectively over generations and hundreds of years for specific traits. That is why we have breeds. For specific purposes. Pits were bred selectively for an entirely different purpose.

As far as the test:
http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com/2010/08/there-are-three-kinds-of-lies-lies.html


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## Madeline (Jul 4, 2017)

After doing a little reading I'm thinking about a German shepherd, a Norwegian elkhound, a burnese mountain dog, or Leonberger.

We live in Minnesota and winters can be brutal and a cold weather hearty dog is very important to me. Of course we'll make sure he has appropriate shelter but still I would hate to have a cold dog. I don't mind bringing the dog in the house if needed but I rather have an outside dog. I don't think I want a barker but a dog that will watch out for the kids and livestock. Just overall be a good family dog and over the property. Yes we plan on training very well which is why we rather get a puppy that we can socialize with our family and our farm right away.


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

Lisa; ???? Not heard of this. Can you give citation to the pitbull advocacy group that says this?
The ASPCA, pets.WebMD, best friends, national canine research council ect. all endorse pitbulls as good family dogs.
https://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/public-policy/breed-specific-legislation-faq
http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/features/pit-bulls-safety
https://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-policy-and-position-statements/position-statement-pit-bulls
http://bestfriends.org/resources/pitbulls-everything-you-need-know
There's also these great studies about it;
https://www.nationalcanineresearchc...ccur-most-dog-bite-related-fatalities-2015pdf
https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/L...of-Breed-in-Dog-Bite-Risk-and-Prevention.aspx

From the American Veterinary Medical Association;
"Owners of pit bull-type dogs deal with a strong breed stigma,44 however controlled studies have not identified this breed group as disproportionately dangerous."
Admittedly, the ATT is far from perfect. (Of course, the link you provided is wildly biased and sensationalist, an opinion blog not a study.) But I can't think of a higher scientific council to refer to for dogs than the AVMA.  I thought you respected scientific literature?

Op; A german shepherd would probably serve you very well. Your weather concerns are legitimate, pits handle the cold well enough but can't stay out in it all the time. Be careful of your selection, many GSDs have bad hips/eyes/elbows due to inbreeding. Make your selection with care.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> I'm sorry but that's BS. I have Great Pyrenees to guard my livestock and border collies to herd. Because they were bred selectively over generations and hundreds of years for specific traits. That is why we have breeds. For specific purposes. Pits were bred selectively for an entirely different purpose.
> 
> As far as the test:
> http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com/2010/08/there-are-three-kinds-of-lies-lies.html


Agree 100%....I love all dogs....but keep your pit chained up.
If you have to defend a pit in every conversation.....then the warning are real

Great pyrenees, shepherd, or collie are my suggestions....
But I would get the livestock first...that a pup...so it will adopt the live stock as his flock or herd...


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

Hahahaha, that's the funniest thing I mighta ever heard!
When I think about how desperately some people try to defend some big positions like politics and faith and stuff. Super publicly. Like on the news all the time desperately trying to defend things.
It gives me a chuckle. I wonder, what do you get defensive about?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

ChocolateMouse said:


> Lisa; ???? Not heard of this. Can you give citation to the pitbull advocacy group that says this?
> The ASPCA, pets.WebMD, best friends, national canine research council ect. all endorse pitbulls as good family dogs.
> https://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/public-policy/breed-specific-legislation-faq
> http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/features/pit-bulls-safety
> ...


Are


ChocolateMouse said:


> Lisa; ???? Not heard of this. Can you give citation to the pitbull advocacy group that says this?
> The ASPCA, pets.WebMD, best friends, national canine research council ect. all endorse pitbulls as good family dogs.
> https://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/public-policy/breed-specific-legislation-faq
> http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/features/pit-bulls-safety
> ...



I stopped with your first source since it's a pit advocacy group.

As far as I'm concerned, statistics don't lie. Pit breeds account for the most fatal attacks and brutal maulings. Like the one a couple of weeks ago where a pit jumped into a woman's mini van and viciously mauled two young children in their car seats. http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/06/fundraising_campaign_launched.html

Or the ten year old in Detroit the week before who had her arm torn off by a pit http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4615928/Ten-year-old-girl-arm-severed-pit-bull-Detroit.html

And right before that a 90 year old who was disemboweled and killed by the pit her daughter had adopted. http://nbc4i.com/2017/06/02/90-year-old-woman-dies-after-pet-pit-bull-vicious-attack-in-virginia/

You want to believe unicorns and rainbows pushed by thugs and pie in the sky "dog lovers" you go for it.

I'll believe statistics. http://www.dogsbite.org/


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

ChocolateMouse said:


> Whether or not you have a good ol farm dog or a monstrosity would depend on training and what you expect from the dog.
> 
> Do you want a dog that will just bark when it sees something it doesn't recognize? Just go to the pound and get a nice dog that's willing to bark. Even a toy breed could do that. My sister has a chinese crested that does that.
> Do you want a dog big enough to intimidate other humans, but loves your family? Labs are a great choice, but probably won't actually do anything but bark at strangers and are more likely to run than confront them. Pits can be as well, they're great with kids, protective of children but you would have to pick carefully to get one that's also livestock safe. Still, my sister owns a pit mix that loves everyone and doesn't even touch her cats or my chickens and rabbits. Rescues are overwhelmed with pits and pit mixes so you really can have the cream of the crop by picking a pit and you can be extremely choosy. There's lots of family guard dogs. Rotties and german shepherds are pretty great too.
> ...





ChocolateMouse said:


> They get a bad rap, but they're good dogs. I am sorry you had a bad experience. But they're not gonna be worse than any other terrier breed. Science backs this up. They even have a very large temperament test sample size;
> https://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/
> http://dogtime.com/dog-health/general/1220-american-pit-bull-terrier-temperament-dog-bites (summation of the above data with videos showing how the testing works).
> 
> ...





ChocolateMouse said:


> Lisa; ???? Not heard of this. Can you give citation to the pitbull advocacy group that says this?
> The ASPCA, pets.WebMD, best friends, national canine research council ect. all endorse pitbulls as good family dogs.
> https://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/public-policy/breed-specific-legislation-faq
> http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/features/pit-bulls-safety
> ...





ChocolateMouse said:


> Hahahaha, that's the funniest thing I mighta ever heard!
> When I think about how desperately some people try to defend some big positions like politics and faith and stuff. Super publicly. Like on the news all the time desperately trying to defend things.
> It gives me a chuckle. I wonder, what do you get defensive about?


Well....Lets review....
4 posts out of 13 to defend pits?.....the 1/3 of the posts
0 posts defending any other breed .

Glad you found my post amusing...and made you day....
But you have not convinced any one....

IMO.....
Happy 4th of July.


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

That's cool. You can ignore my whole post. I'll just keep listening to the American Veterinary Medical Association.
You keep thinking that a statistic that lumps 4 breeds of dogs and countless mixed breeds together into one statistic without any concern for husbandry is accurate.
Then we'll both be happy. You _are_ happy making sure your every post is an ad hominem attack on other people, right? I wouldn't want you to feel dissatisfied with that.

Hunter you can't think of a single thing you support in life that is constantly being defended by it's supporters in every single conversation? Not a one? Not a SINGLE thing? Not, like, even thing related to the country or peoples rights to behave certain ways or have certain things or anything? Not a ONE?
I don't really care about convincing you about dogs. You can believe whatever. But it's really funny to think that the standard for whether or not something is truthful is how much they defend themselves against it.
You appear to be defending yourself against being convinced about pitts a lot. Your every post has been about it here. 0 posts about how you're not a fan of other breeds. I guess by your standards you really love pits! Hahaha! Absurd.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Like I said...Have a Happy 4th of July......
I sure I made my point....


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

ChocolateMouse said:


> That's cool. You can ignore my whole post. I'll just keep listening to the American Veterinary Medical Association.
> You keep thinking that a statistic that lumps 4 breeds of dogs and countless mixed breeds together into one statistic without any concern for husbandry is accurate.
> Then we'll both be happy. You _are_ happy making sure your every post is an ad hominem attack on other people, right? I wouldn't want you to feel dissatisfied with that.
> 
> ...


http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/analysis-avma-role-of-breed-in-dog-bite-risk-and-prevention.pdf


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

hunter63 said:


> Like I said...Have a Happy 4th of July......
> I sure I made my point....


Same here. No point wasting the day arguing with a snotty child.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> Same here. No point wasting the day arguing with a snotty child.


I agree..... I was trying to be nice.....


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> Same here. No point wasting the day arguing with a snotty child.


Nice insult (again). You know, Lisa.
Usually people who aren't interested just walk away without the drama of a swan song.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

ChocolateMouse said:


> Nice insult (again). You know, Lisa.
> Usually people who aren't interested just walk away without the drama of a swan song.


Take a nap, little girl..so you're nice and fresh for fireworks tonight. 
Happy 4th of July!

Mwuh!


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## ChocolateMouse (Jul 31, 2013)

XD You see, it's called irony. Because that's what you said to me day-before-yesterday when I expressed that I was done with a topic that got dumb because you were just insulting people in it. Like you just did here.

Guess I was wrong about the swan song... But not about your continued drama!
(Yeah, I can edit posts too, look at that!)


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## Madeline (Jul 4, 2017)

I don't plan on getting a pit. I really want to believe that they are sweet gentle dogs and I've met a few that were just that. But I have small children and, although I never leave my kids completely alone with animals, I still would not feel comfortable with a pit. I hope it's not wrong of me to believe the rumors but honestly I rather be safe than sorry. Besides, pits are not cold weather dogs. I'm sure a German shepherd or a Bernese mountain dog or possibly a great Pyrenees might be more suitable. I googled a few rescue groups in my state as well as some breeders. I've never bought from a breeder and I'm a little scared. I would hate to buy from a puppy mill or something as awful. 

Is it normal to go to the breeder and check out the grounds and parents before purchasing?

Also...what I really want to know. If we get a bernese or a great pyrenees should we wait until we have goats first next spring or would it be okay to get the dog first this fall?

I know some people use these breeds as LGD and I believe that means the dog lives with the goats and such but I'm not sure if this is what we're looking for. We just want a farm dog that will be a companion to the family and sweet with our animals and overall help my husband on the farm. I do want to make sure that the dog never shows any aggression towards any of the animals so I don't want to mess up the timing. 

Thanks for all your help


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

Have you heard of Tibetan mastiffs? They carry all of the qualities you are looking for, were originally bred to guard livestock.
http://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/tibetan-mastiff/


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## Madeline (Jul 4, 2017)

ShannonR said:


> Have you heard of Tibetan mastiffs? They carry all of the qualities you are looking for, were originally bred to guard livestock.
> http://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/tibetan-mastiff/


I'll look into them thank you


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

You need to really hone down what you want. If you need a livestock guardian dog, then get a livestock guardian dog. Great Pyr need a lot of room or they will roam, after all that's what they did in the old country. Great Pyr guard by barking. When they bark they disrupt the stalking pattern of the wolf or coyote, and the predator goes away. Some of them will attack. Generally, they are good with children, but of course, need to be socialized to them. A dog that is generally considered to be an LGD can be left outside 24/7. Read the post in this forum by motdaugrnds on her Kagan. This is an LGD that is harder than a Great Pyr.

If you want a dog that is safe with kids but will bond to your livestock, look at the livestock guardian breeds. If you want a dog that will guard your family, look for a companion dog. Yes, if you get two they can get along. For the family's protection I would get a well bred Dobermann or Beauvier des Flanders. Either breed is a good family dog. As with any dog, the emphasis is on *well bred. * You will need a good "leave it" command before letting either off leash if you have livestock. Either dog will protect the property, their territory, either will bite, but a Dobie is sooner to bite. Neither should be left outside 24/7 regardless of the weather.

*LGD *are typically bonded to their charges as puppies, prior to 16 weeks of age. So, if you get a puppy at 15 weeks old you need to have the goats or sheep there for him to bond with and so they can get to know each other. There is a procedure for acquainting the puppy with the livestock so that neither gets hurt.


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

I don't think an all-around dog is too much to ask for


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Yep, and an all around firearm is a simple answer too.

A mistake with a .22 will have the same consequences as a .45?


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The current influx of willy nilly breeding with the newest fad called a livestock guardian dog is going to change around these statistics. If you think a pit bull is a potentially dangerous dog, and any other molloser derivative is not, then you have no clue. Some of the trendy new breeds, depending on the line and what is in them, are used for the same purpose as pitbulls in their home country. Wolves have been practically eliminated for hundreds of years in some of these countries that sport their own heritage breed guardian dog. The wolf subspecies present in some cases was little bigger than a coyote anyway. In many cases, dogs were the main flock predator, dog on dog aggression was bred for, celebrated, and tested for in public events using the celebrated regional favorite livestock guardian dog.

The pyrenese are probably the safest bet of any of these breeds. Many of them have been bred to be do nothing, fluffy, flea repositories for so long they have lost their edge. Still dangerous, though. If there were as many pyrs, (which won't take much longer) as there were dogs that resembled a pit bull enough to be called a pit bull for statistics sake, they might earn a pretty good chunk of the pie.

All dogs are predators. All dogs have potential to bite, kill and maim things you don't want them to. All dogs need training, supervision, and a means for restraint. It's not just pit bulls, or any of the dozens of combinations that will get called a pit bull when they mess up.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Lisa in WA said:


> http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/analysis-avma-role-of-breed-in-dog-bite-risk-and-prevention.pdf


I agree that stats don't lie. I'd never trust a pit bull type dog, ever.


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## Madeline (Jul 4, 2017)

barnbilder said:


> The current influx of willy nilly breeding with the newest fad called a livestock guardian dog is going to change around these statistics. If you think a pit bull is a potentially dangerous dog, and any other molloser derivative is not, then you have no clue. Some of the trendy new breeds, depending on the line and what is in them, are used for the same purpose as pitbulls in their home country. Wolves have been practically eliminated for hundreds of years in some of these countries that sport their own heritage breed guardian dog. The wolf subspecies present in some cases was little bigger than a coyote anyway. In many cases, dogs were the main flock predator, dog on dog aggression was bred for, celebrated, and tested for in public events using the celebrated regional favorite livestock guardian dog.
> 
> The pyrenese are probably the safest bet of any of these breeds. Many of them have been bred to be do nothing, fluffy, flea repositories for so long they have lost their edge. Still dangerous, though. If there were as many pyrs, (which won't take much longer) as there were dogs that resembled a pit bull enough to be called a pit bull for statistics sake, they might earn a pretty good chunk of the pie.
> 
> All dogs are predators. All dogs have potential to bite, kill and maim things you don't want them to. All dogs need training, supervision, and a means for restraint. It's not just pit bulls, or any of the dozens of combinations that will get called a pit bull when they mess up.


As I believe I said before. Maybe I didn't. Our main priority is to get a puppy so we can train and socialize it with the animals and family. I never lose sight that animals are animals and I respect that. I have never left my small children alone with animals that can hurt them. 

I do believe we can find an all around farm dog for us. Maybe I'm looking more for a companion than guard dog. Many ages ago I dated a guy. He had a few animals on a little farm. He got a German shepherd/Norwegian elkhound mix. That dog was so good! Just loved helping her master care for the animals, hang around while he chopped wood, loved rides on the 4x4 while he checked on the fence. She was the sweetest thing ever but she took her job of watching over the house and all it's inhabitants seriously. She never went beyond the boundaries of the farm. She never went in the house. Almost felt completely uncomfortable in the house. She had a beautifully insulated dog house. She loved the snow and farm work. I guess that's what I think of when I think of farm dog. 

Unfortunately my husband had a bad experience with a German shepherd when he was a child. So today he told me he DOES NOT want a German shepherd. I think the Bernese or Great Pyrenees are our best options. I looked up the Tibetan mastiff and they seem a little too much like a guard dog. I think we need more companion dog as I said.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Madeline said:


> As I believe I said before. Maybe I didn't. Our main priority is to get a puppy so we can train and socialize it with the animals and family. I never lose sight that animals are animals and I respect that. I have never left my small children alone with animals that can hurt them.
> 
> I do believe we can find an all around farm dog for us. Maybe I'm looking more for a companion than guard dog. Many ages ago I dated a guy. He had a few animals on a little farm. He got a German shepherd/Norwegian elkhound mix. That dog was so good! Just loved helping her master care for the animals, hang around while he chopped wood, loved rides on the 4x4 while he checked on the fence. She was the sweetest thing ever but she took her job of watching over the house and all it's inhabitants seriously. She never went beyond the boundaries of the farm. She never went in the house. Almost felt completely uncomfortable in the house. She had a beautifully insulated dog house. She loved the snow and farm work. I guess that's what I think of when I think of farm dog.
> 
> Unfortunately my husband had a bad experience with a German shepherd when he was a child. So today he told me he DOES NOT want a German shepherd. I think the Bernese or Great Pyrenees are our best options. I looked up the Tibetan mastiff and they seem a little too much like a guard dog. I think we need more companion dog as I said.


You might check out farm collies or English shepherds. They are great all around farm dogs. My dog is a Border Collie/ Aussie cross and I've actually seen this cross referred to as a farm collie. He's an excellent all around dog.

http://www.farmcollie.org/


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

as long as we are listing our favorite dogs.
right now I have 10 LGD Maremma puppies.
they were born on June 15.
they are very similar to the Great Pyrinese, and Anatolian, .
they are not herd dogs. they protect their stock. we use our pair for our poultry because we do not raise hoofed animals any more.
I could go on and on about this breed. 
but you can look it up on utube.
......jiminwisc.......


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

I just want to clear one thing up..
I am not a breeder nor am I a puppy mill.
we just happen to have a pair of purebred Maremma that are not related and they got together.
just another thought.
any dog is a good dog. It is always poor training . remember, you have to be smarter than the animal you are training..

the most savage dog toward people that I have ever encountered was a black lab..
just saying..

jiminwisc......


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> as long as we are listing our favorite dogs.
> right now I have 10 LGD Maremma puppies.
> they were born on June 15.
> they are very similar to the Great Pyrinese, and Anatolian, .
> ...


We need puppy pictures. Please.


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## Bungiex88 (Jan 2, 2016)

Most farmers around here have collies. Good dogs for around animals always barks when someone arrives


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

You could get two dogs. Pretty much keep them outside during the day and rotate them in your house at night. This keeps one dog inside to guard the family and the other to guard the livestock and great outdoors. Get one, train him up, then get another. Again, Dobermann or Bouvier if you want a good companion guard dog. I do not like Labs for farms because they tend to roam. Not so much a problem if you have a lot of acreage. Around here people like Lab x Dobermann. Very nice dog as long as both parents are healthy with good temperaments.


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## momgoat (Jan 15, 2013)

Madeline said:


> We're buying a little farmhouse and plan on getting a good old farm dog. Eventually we hope to have chickens and goats and I want a dog that will protect and watch out for the animals and my children. We hope to get a puppy this fall but not getting livestock until next spring. Wil he be too old to learn how to get along with them?
> I would love to get a rescue puppy but I also want a breed that will work well in the country. We plan on keeping him in the house while he's a puppy but eventually would like to keep him in one of the outbuildings with proper heating and shelter and food and water. We live in Minnesota so he definitely needs to be a cold weather hearty dog.
> 
> Any advice on breed?
> ...


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

It was minus 22F when I sneaked up on him taking a nap..


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

So cute and fluffy, and look at the face!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Absolutely do your research, here are two links, but don't stop there-

http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com/2010/08/nanny-dog-myth-revealed.html

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2016.php


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Very cute pups. They look so much like GP's.

We actually had a Maremma breeder nearby when we were starting out with LGD's but they weren't actually working so we ended up going with a GP breeder in BC whose dogs worked huge clearcuts with thousands of sheep. They turned out to be really terrific LGDs for us. No stock losses even with Grizzlies, wolves and cougar.


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## sawman65 (Sep 8, 2011)

I have had many farm dogs in my life time. The two best dogs I ever had were the mountain curr and the Airedale terrier. Bird dogs such as the lab will kill every chicken on the lot. And the big LGD's will steal the neighbors livestock,dogs even their children lol! Once I had the law call me at work to tell me I need to get to the house because my GP had rounded up all the kids from the bus stop and would not let them out of my front yard. Would not let the parents in to get them as far as he was concerned they were his and that was that...he was so proud when I showed up!

Look at the curr dog and you wont go wrong it was raised to be exactly what you are looking for 50 pounds of pure hell to any thing that wants to harm what it has been charged with

the Airedale is some what high strung but trained correctly will be a great addition to the farm. They do require some coat maintenance a lot of it!

You say you want to save a dog the thing is it will mean a lot of training and time. You will lose live stock in ths prosses but it can be done. if you have not undertaken such a task before you will end up having to put it down or give it up back to the shelter. Not a good idea
good luck!


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## sawman65 (Sep 8, 2011)

The Mountain Cur is intelligent, easily trained, and neither vicious nor shy. They are known to always try to please their masters. They are not, however, dogs to be trifled with; historically many a cur died fighting to protect their family from attackers or dangerous predators.

These curs were bred to work, and if deprived of the opportunity to hunt, guard, or work around a farm they will grow anxious and bored. When they have a job to do, these dogs are generally happy and obedient, and are able to get along well with children and other pets.

The Airedale can be used as a working dog and also as a hunting dog. Airedales exhibit some herding characteristics as well, and have a propensity to chase animals. They have no problem working with cattle and livestock. However, an Airedale that is not well trained will agitate and annoy the animals.

The Airedale Terrier, like most terriers, has been bred to hunt independently. As a result, the dog is very intelligent, independent, strong-minded, stoic, and can sometimes be stubborn. If children and Airedale are both trained correctly, Airedales can be an excellent choice for a family dog. Airedales can do well with cats and other small animals, especially when they are raised with them.

Albert Payson Terhune wrote of the Airedale: "Among the mine-pits of the Aire, the various groups of miners each sought to develop a dog which could outfight and outhunt and outthink the other miner's dogs. Tests of the first-named virtues were made in inter-mine dog fights. Bit by bit, thus, an active, strong, heroic, compactly graceful and clever dog was evolved – the earliest true form of the Airedale.

He is swift, formidable, graceful, big of brain, an ideal chum and guard. ....To his master he is an adoring pal. To marauders he is a destructive lightning bolt."


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

sawman65 said:


> I have had many farm dogs in my life time. The two best dogs I ever had were the mountain curr and the Airedale terrier. Bird dogs such as the lab will kill every chicken on the lot. And the big LGD's will steal the neighbors livestock,dogs even their children lol! Once I had the law call me at work to tell me I need to get to the house because my GP had rounded up all the kids from the bus stop and would not let them out of my front yard. Would not let the parents in to get them as far as he was concerned they were his and that was that...he was so proud when I showed up!
> 
> Look at the curr dog and you wont go wrong it was raised to be exactly what you are looking for 50 pounds of pure hell to any thing that wants to harm what it has been charged with
> 
> ...


My GPS kept my livestock out of the jaws of grizzlies, black bears, wolves and cougars. We are surrounded by National forest so no neighbors or neighbors kids for miles. They were amazingly gentle with all children they came in contact with, most especially mine but they did their job exactly as they are supposed to and very well. 
Though I don't advocate getting LGDs for small farms with close neighbors or for chickens. It's overkill and the barking that is part of the job can be off putting to neighbors.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Absolutely do your research, here are two links, but don't stop there-
> 
> http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com/2010/08/nanny-dog-myth-revealed.html
> 
> http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2016.php


Exactly. They were never nanny dogs.


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

This dog is everything I could ever ask for. It took a few trips to dogge jail and growing out of the puppy phase before she learned to stick around her territory, but she has turned out to be a great all around dog.






Auntie Em, we call her.






She is 3/4 Pyrenees and 1/4 aussie.


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## sawman65 (Sep 8, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> My GPS kept my livestock out of the jaws of grizzlies, black bears, wolves and cougars. We are surrounded by National forest so no neighbors or neighbors kids for miles. They were amazingly gentle with all children they came in contact with, most especially mine but they did their job exactly as they are supposed to and very well.
> Though I don't advocate getting LGDs for small farms with close neighbors or for chickens. It's overkill and the barking that is part of the job can be off putting to neighbors.


 my neighbors are just 1/2 mile away all the kids go to my house because i built a shelter for them and mine. the GP never hurt them just barked and gave them a scare just as he was trained to do. the cur dog will bay all nite long one down side if you have close living neighbors


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

ShannonR, that picture of your GP looks a lot like my Maremma female.
We have two of them.
and all we have for them to guard are chickens. guineas and geese.
we iive on 10 acres bordered on two sides by a river. to the North of us are miles of woods. we have black bears, no grizzlies, 
wolves, coyotes, foxes and all else that travels the river.
we have not had to close up our chicken coop for years because of predators.
they just don't come around anymore since we got these dogs..
in fact, I don't even need a fence around my garden because the dogs bark as soon as they catch the scent of any animal..
the dogs don't actually mingle with the fowl.
just their presence and constant marking their territory and barking keeps everything away.. 
even hawks think twice before not dropping in for a meal..
I see very little difference between the Maremma, G.P. and Anatolian.. and there is another breed which I can't always remember the name...


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

ShannonR, that picture of your GP looks a lot like my Maremma female.
We have two of them.
and all we have for them to guard are chickens. guineas and geese.
we iive on 10 acres bordered on two sides by a river. to the North of us are miles of woods. we have black bears, no grizzlies, 
wolves, coyotes, foxes and all else that travels the river.
we have not had to close up our chicken coop for years because of predators.
they just don't come around anymore since we got these dogs..
in fact, I don't even need a fence around my garden because the dogs bark as soon as they catch the scent of any animal..
the dogs don't actually mingle with the fowl.
just their presence and constant marking their territory and barking keeps everything away.. 
even hawks think twice before not dropping in for a meal..
I see very little difference between the Maremma, G.P. and Anatolian.. and there is another breed which I can't always remember the name...


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> ShannonR, that picture of your GP looks a lot like my Maremma female.
> We have two of them.
> and all we have for them to guard are chickens. guineas and geese.
> we iive on 10 acres bordered on two sides by a river. to the North of us are miles of woods. we have black bears, no grizzlies,
> ...


Is the one you can't remember the name of Akbash?

They do all look very similar! I think the ear markings on Auntie Em make her look like a different breed, more than anything-- She got that from her half aussie mama.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

GP's


ShannonR said:


> Is the one you can't remember the name of Akbash?
> 
> They do all look very similar! I think the ear markings on Auntie Em make her look like a different breed, more than anything-- She got that from her half aussie mama.



GP's can have darker ears too...badger markings. One of mine had dark patches on his ears. So cute.

Miss Em is adorable.


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## Al Yaz (Jun 13, 2017)

Our neighbours have two Maremmas. Wonderful dogs. They put the run on bears all the time. We have had lots of dogs over the years and just love everything about our Australian Shepherds. Good luck with your choice and have fun with it.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

my pictures are giving me fits !!
in fact today my whole computer is acting up


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

I would recommend catahoulas. I raise and breed this breed. However they do have their pros and cons. They will guard the property but they will also enforce the rules that the owner establishes in keeping certain animals in certain pens and if the animal breaks out, the dog will be there to make sure they stay IN the area they're supposed to be in. They also will kill/fight any strange critters that trepass on the property including strange humans. 

Now about pit bulls, I used to raise/breed them for hog hunting. An average pit bull has a high prey drive. Most people wouldn't recognize a normal pit bull because they're not the muscle bound dogs most people are accustomed to seeing. They're not very big either. They tend to look like muscular greyhounds actually. Around 25 to 55 lbs. Two bloodlines out of the NorthWest are documented to get as big as 70 lbs. The nanny dog thing actually applies to the Staffordshire Bull terrier which is a smaller sized dog where the pit bull descended from a very long time ago. The breed is 20-40 lbs max. When immigrants imported them over here, they most likely crossed them with other breeds to get them to the size they are today. Anything over 55 lbs is not a full blooded pit bull. It is usually crossed with a mastiff breed and called a bully pit bull those days. Never had problems with my bloodline which I have not bred and don't have pit bulls currently. I had to sell out in order to move to the big city. My dogs were very good around other dogs and people that they knew so never a problem with them. Mine were highly trained though because I am deaf and my dogs are expected to tell me what's going on in my property. I don't know if they would make good farm dogs though. They literally lack a protective sense for protecting property. They may bark but you could literally go into a yard that is full of pit bulls and take one or all of them and they wouldn't usually bark and be very happy to see you. That's why people who own multiple pits often have a guardian dog breed in the yard around the pit bulls. The reason why they're listed frequently in high numbers is due to them being massively overbred and bred with anything that the losers think will enable them to win in the ring or cross them with another breed that will bite and bark.


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## weavingone (Jun 25, 2013)

Our favorite lgd is the Maremma. The key selling point with Maremma, for me, was that they have been bred for thousands of years to bond with livestock and clan alike and prevent predation from all directions. Ours pretty much handle that end of things. However, as a long time breeder and 'trainer' I have decades of experience with raising and yes, reconditioning the puppies that were mishandled by inexperienced 'trainers wannabes'. Please don't take that the wrong way, I'm being honest about this. If you want an lgd then get one that you can see is doing that. Learning all the wrong ways to go about that is not what you really want to do. That's exactly the same story the folks that have brought their failures to me said they did and why. That is exactly why you won't get a puppy from me until you have another lgd in situ working the way you want and hoped. If you want to see what happens when puppies are bought by those with no experience you're welcome to come to my farm. I have one of those now. I also have bald spots on my head, lol. He's big, he's annoying and he's a really bad lgd. He doesn't do much of what an lgd is supposed to do and he does most of the things an lgd is not supposed to do. He's with me because his previous family was afraid of him by the time he was 6 months old. 

LGD often get big fast, and usually do so if the new owner is feeding them incorrectly. Just because they will grow to 100 pounds before 4 months if you force feed them doesn't mean you should or that they will grow up healthy. We raise our Maremma naturally, slow and steady and use raw feeding and organic principles. Just because they are big does not mean that they are mentally as 'big' as adult lgd's. As puppies they are not huge and they are not lgd's, rather they are babies, toddlers, and teens, learning their job as they grow into it around here. You would not ask a baby to do an adult's job in the real world, and in the real world puppies don't do an adult's job by living in a house and visiting the barn, but they get big enough to handle the work as adults if they are kept with their adult pack to learn their job as they grow, and they grow on more healthy for it. This is not the place to go into all the details of what makes a healthy, strong dog but ours do glow and shine...after they shed that winter coat out! lol They also love to cuddle and some of them smile and wave to us when we come home or first come out of the house for morning and evening chores. Yeah, and sometimes they even pat me on the back with a big ol' muddy paw.

I will say this, ...an lgd in the house can not do the job by remote control, they do not really know how to operate kamikaze drone attacks on predators, and may not even be aware of the presence of a predator in your flock until it's too late. Why would you want one in the house? Long hair = lots of shedding in the house. LGD in the house = Livestock attacks under full steam ahead before you can get out there to stop it. Often an lgd in the house develops nasty habits and becomes too territorial. The restricted exercise is also conducive to poor skeletal development. Lgd's belong outside with their livestock where they can do the job they have been bred for over 3,000 years. Get a pair of experienced Maremma lgd's, stay away from the cute little puppies, they're not lgd's yet, not for 6 months to two years, and stay away from the shelters. They often won't adopt to anyone who doesn't claim they're going to keep the dog in the house. They don't have a clue about the lgd's. Usually they put them down right away as they equate that size with an equally huge feed bill. They're clueless about that, too!


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## ScotchCollies (Apr 23, 2017)

The original question was Dog breed recommendation for a farm dog. We have a small farm in Oklahoma and we have been raising Scotch Collies for 9 years now. They are registered with the Old Time Scotch Collie Association. We think they are the best all purpose farm dog out there. They herd, they do livestock guardian, and most of them also hunt as well. These are the original multi-purpose farm dog for the family farm. They are great around children and they don't attack our chickens, geese, ducks, and muscovy. It is true that we have different breeds for different purposes. These dogs were bred to be farm dogs. They are very hardy in the cold weather, and should be a good fit for Minnesota. These are not AKC show collies which were bred just for looks they were bred to be a great family working dog. Check out scotchcollie.org and https://www.scottishcolliepreservationsociety.org

If you would like to see our dogs go to scotchcollie.net.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

TedH71, I have a Catahoula female that absolutely ADORES my two deaf grand daughters. She takes them by the hand or arm, no teeth all gums, and will hold them where they are if I'm not watching them. The girls are 9 and 4 years old. My dog knows the difference between their SUV and all others, and she gets ecstatic when she hears that sound rolling up the drive. She also comes to check my truck every time I come home, as I usually have the girls over a couple times a week for sleepovers during the summer. My dog will check the back doors and wait for them to open before she even comes to see me when I get out. Silly girl. She does drive me a bit crazy with her barking sometimes, but otherwise she is a pretty good girl.

She is wonderful on the ranch, too. She will run off every predator, including flying ones. Unfortunately she has not figured out that when she runs up behind a skunk and grab its butt, it will in fact spray her every single time. I wish she would learn that one thing, especially because I bring my dogs in the house at night and she sure stinks up a storm some nights!!

I would definitely say a Catahoula would be a good ranch dog, but not for very cold places. My girls gets so cold here in the winter that I have to put her coat on her to go out and chore every day. And we live in North Central Texas where winters are pretty mild!!


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## gofishcamp (Feb 16, 2017)

Madeline said:


> We're buying a little farmhouse and plan on getting a good old farm dog. Eventually we hope to have chickens and goats and I want a dog that will protect and watch out for the animals and my children. We hope to get a puppy this fall but not getting livestock until next spring. Wil he be too old to learn how to get along with them?
> I would love to get a rescue puppy but I also want a breed that will work well in the country. We plan on keeping him in the house while he's a puppy but eventually would like to keep him in one of the outbuildings with proper heating and shelter and food and water. We live in Minnesota so he definitely needs to be a cold weather hearty dog.
> 
> Any advice on breed?
> ...


We have a farm with free range chickens, ducks and goats. Currently have 3 dogs- 2 blue heelers and a mixed up Aussie, all three dogs are trained and will not bother the animals. They will however chase after coyotes, skunks and the occasional raccoon. My advice is to get a hardy shepard or heeler.


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## GotGoat (Jul 26, 2017)

Madeline said:


> We're buying a little farmhouse and plan on getting a good old farm dog. Eventually we hope to have chickens and goats and I want a dog that will protect and watch out for the animals and my children. We hope to get a puppy this fall but not getting livestock until next spring. Wil he be too old to learn how to get along with them?
> I would love to get a rescue puppy but I also want a breed that will work well in the country. We plan on keeping him in the house while he's a puppy but eventually would like to keep him in one of the outbuildings with proper heating and shelter and food and water. We live in Minnesota so he definitely needs to be a cold weather hearty dog.
> 
> Any advice on breed?
> ...


Pumi. Hungarian herding breed. Smaller medium size non-shedding, easy to groom, good with kids and family, good watch dog, very easy to train, good of-leash, has an "off switch" good with lifestock. Watch them on YouTube type in Goatsheepshop. I breed them and use them daily for work. My website is www.catskillpumi.com. While you can get terrific shelter dogs once in a while, adopting a dog for farm work can be a risky since you do not know the background of the dog.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

aoconnor1 said:


> TedH71, I have a Catahoula female that absolutely ADORES my two deaf grand daughters. She takes them by the hand or arm, no teeth all gums, and will hold them where they are if I'm not watching them. The girls are 9 and 4 years old. My dog knows the difference between their SUV and all others, and she gets ecstatic when she hears that sound rolling up the drive. She also comes to check my truck every time I come home, as I usually have the girls over a couple times a week for sleepovers during the summer. My dog will check the back doors and wait for them to open before she even comes to see me when I get out. Silly girl. She does drive me a bit crazy with her barking sometimes, but otherwise she is a pretty good girl.
> 
> She is wonderful on the ranch, too. She will run off every predator, including flying ones. Unfortunately she has not figured out that when she runs up behind a skunk and grab its butt, it will in fact spray her every single time. I wish she would learn that one thing, especially because I bring my dogs in the house at night and she sure stinks up a storm some nights!!
> 
> I would definitely say a Catahoula would be a good ranch dog, but not for very cold places. My girls gets so cold here in the winter that I have to put her coat on her to go out and chore every day. And we live in North Central Texas where winters are pretty mild!!


I live in Kansas and have the last 12 years. We used to get 4 to 6 blizzard storms a year but as the years have passed by, the blizzards have lessened big time to basically once a year. It still gets cold. Only my male hates the cold weather but he will go out to do his business and be wanting to come back inside while the 2 others (soon to have a 3rd which will be my male's son) and the half catahoula half rat terriers don't care about the cold, lol.


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## BH English Shepherds (Oct 27, 2017)

Madeline said:


> We're buying a little farmhouse and plan on getting a good old farm dog. Eventually we hope to have chickens and goats and I want a dog that will protect and watch out for the animals and my children. We hope to get a puppy this fall but not getting livestock until next spring. Wil he be too old to learn how to get along with them?
> I would love to get a rescue puppy but I also want a breed that will work well in the country. We plan on keeping him in the house while he's a puppy but eventually would like to keep him in one of the outbuildings with proper heating and shelter and food and water. We live in Minnesota so he definitely needs to be a cold weather hearty dog.
> 
> Any advice on breed?
> ...


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## momgoat (Jan 15, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> I'm sorry but that's BS. I have Great Pyrenees to guard my livestock and border collies to herd. Because they were bred selectively over generations and hundreds of years for specific traits. That is why we have breeds. For specific purposes. Pits were bred selectively for an entirely different purpose.
> 
> As far as the test:
> http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com/2010/08/there-are-three-kinds-of-lies-lies.html


Actually Lisa, its not BS & if anyone actually knew the history about Pits then they'd know better. Pit bulls were the original babysitting dogs, they were also used to hang on to & hold Bulls. They also went after big game. BUT!! The pit bulls are not bred as carefully as they once were. Pits in most parts of the country are bred for dog fighting & in some cases are inbred/line bred. The ones doing that do not have a true understanding of that breeds genetics & that's why many "snap". But as been stated numerous times before, it all comes down to training. My husband grew up raising pit's in Tx, he & his parents rescued a female pit from a shelter that the workers there deemed vicious, but that was because they had no clue about the breed or her history. She was scared to death of her new "home", she had lost her elderly owner (died) & was shoved into the dog pound. My husband (as a kid) went into her kennel & sat with her for hours. She was the biggest most loving dog, was just misunderstood. ALL of his pups that they had were bought by families with small kids & NOT 1. Ever turned on their owners or their kids. 
Rottie's are terrific dogs & were originally used for pulling carts & herding also, but that's another thing that has been bred out of them. So, not all of them are suitable for livestock, kids yes.....livestock no. And I have owned 2 rescued females. 1 was used as a puppy mill & was discarded when the owner took his younger females (& male) & moved, left her tied to the skeleton porch. She was very protective of my then 4 yr old, & protected my other 2 later on & died prior to my fourth child. She (along with our blue heeler) herded & killed many wild cats/kittens. Anything in "her" yard was fair game. Anything in our house or in the driveway area, she was fine with. The 2nd Rottie we rescued from a pound. Absolutely wonderful with the kids (along with the male pit we rescued), but she killed several of our chickens, 1 goat & severely injured another. 
As for the original topic here.......good breed for a farm dog.
If it were me, I wouldn't get a dog (or a puppy) until I had the livestock on hand. 1. its better for them to get to know them while they are young, learn what their boundaries are, etc. And whatever you do (Madeline), if you want a dog to help you with livestock do NOT have any yappers around it or have kids. Both mess up good working dogs, regardless of how well trained they may be (thousands of livestock ranchers in the west will tell you the same thing). 
So depending on what you want it for, depends on what you should get. But know the breed before you get it. If your wanting a guardian for the livestock, then they aren't meant to be inside (how can they guard anything that's outside if they are in?) Akbash, Great Pyrenees are 2 excellent guardian breeds & are meant to be outside among the livestock (used mainly for sheep & goats). 
I know several people who use Pit crosses for livestock, but its usually cattle & they are usually rank cows (mean), so you'd want a dog to handle such stock, not all heelers, border collies or aussie's handle mean cattle, I've known some...but they are bred for "bite".
Rescue dogs are good to go for, but make sure you get one that won't have issues with livestock. 
I just re-read where you have children. Don't get a dog/pup prior to getting your animals, because 1: the kids will ruin aka spoil the dog (it will want to play with them or lay around with them & not do its job) ESPECIALLY if its a pup. 2. if you get the dog months prior to the livestock, its not going to be interested in the job that you will later assign, especially when it has kids to play with. So livestock first, then get a dog/pup, but make it VERY VERY clear that the dog has a job. 
As a person who has 2 cow dogs that got ruined....well, 1 sort of works.....kids & yappers are not good around working dogs.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

momgoat said:


> Actually Lisa, its not BS & if anyone actually knew the history about Pits then they'd know better. Pit bulls were the original babysitting dogs, they were also used to hang on to & hold Bulls. They also went after big game. BUT!! The pit bulls are not bred as carefully as they once were. Pits in most parts of the country are bred for dog fighting & in some cases are inbred/line bred. The ones doing that do not have a true understanding of that breeds genetics & that's why many "snap". But as been stated numerous times before, it all comes down to training. My husband grew up raising pit's in Tx, he & his parents rescued a female pit from a shelter that the workers there deemed vicious, but that was because they had no clue about the breed or her history. She was scared to death of her new "home", she had lost her elderly owner (died) & was shoved into the dog pound. My husband (as a kid) went into her kennel & sat with her for hours. She was the biggest most loving dog, was just misunderstood. ALL of his pups that they had were bought by families with small kids & NOT 1. Ever turned on their owners or their kids.
> Rottie's are terrific dogs & were originally used for pulling carts & herding also, but that's another thing that has been bred out of them. So, not all of them are suitable for livestock, kids yes.....livestock no. And I have owned 2 rescued females. 1 was used as a puppy mill & was discarded when the owner took his younger females (& male) & moved, left her tied to the skeleton porch. She was very protective of my then 4 yr old, & protected my other 2 later on & died prior to my fourth child. She (along with our blue heeler) herded & killed many wild cats/kittens. Anything in "her" yard was fair game. Anything in our house or in the driveway area, she was fine with. The 2nd Rottie we rescued from a pound. Absolutely wonderful with the kids (along with the male pit we rescued), but she killed several of our chickens, 1 goat & severely injured another.
> As for the original topic here.......good breed for a farm dog.
> If it were me, I wouldn't get a dog (or a puppy) until I had the livestock on hand. 1. its better for them to get to know them while they are young, learn what their boundaries are, etc. And whatever you do (Madeline), if you want a dog to help you with livestock do NOT have any yappers around it or have kids. Both mess up good working dogs, regardless of how well trained they may be (thousands of livestock ranchers in the west will tell you the same thing).
> ...


No dear, they were not bred as nanny dogs. As I said, even pit bull advocacy groups have rescinded that myth which I posted earlier so I'm guessing you don't know a whole lot.
as far as what Rotties were originally bred for...oops, looks like you're wrong there too.
http://www.therottweilerclub.co.uk/the-breed/history-of-the-breed/

Bottom line is : the stats don't lie. Pits cause the most fatalities of any breed and kill more pets and animals than any other breed. If you want to come onto on old thread and argue with facts, be my guest. It's generally what pit trash does.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The pit was a composite breed consisting of the bulldog, bred for biting things, originally bulls, and terriers, which is a broad term usually reserved for dogs that dig things out of the ground and kill them. Terriers are killing machines. Turn a Jack Russel loose in a yard full of chickens with no prior training and this will soon become evident. High energy and athletic assassins. This is what makes pits the way they are. It is the raw desire to kill at all costs of the terrier coupled with the larger body, incredible jaw strength and high pain threshold of the bull dog. Many bulldog breeds and derivatives make serviceable children's companions with supervision. (The high pain threshold is a plus). But with the pit, if the terrier comes out of it's little cage of genes and primordial goo, somebody or something must die. Those are the pits that historically did well in the pit. If you breed enough animals, you will soon find out that not all pairings produce a winner. There have been many years and generations of pits turned out that did not have what it took to win in events geared toward their original purpose. If you study the breed, very few dogs were the total package, all had some weaknesses, and breeding champions was an uncertain field. Not unlike any other breed of animal, especially a relatively recently created composite breed.

This is why so many people say "nuh-uh, my pit is an adorable sweetheart". When you finally come across one, that would have done well at it's intended historical purpose, which might be one in five if you were actively breeding for that purpose, and were a lucky and successful breeder, then you are going to be dealing with a different animal entirely. And some of those that historically didn't make the cut were undesirable because of human aggression, not wanted in a pit dog, they usually lack the canine aggression needed, and they are really hard to handle, from what I've been told. So, like with most animal breeding, it's a big old genetic crapshoot that would take you a lifetime of breeding to get a handle on, with known breeding stock, and completely impossible to get a handle on with rescue dogs of unknown origin. It's a crapshoot that many do take, still today, and they are emboldened by the anecdotal evidence of past success. Still a genetic roll of the dice. The question is, is it one that you are willing to take?

Inbreeding is not the cause of temperment problems in pits or any other animal. Inbreeding fixes traits. (Not fix as in improve, fix as in set in place) If the traits were bad, you fix bad traits. It is likely that inbreeding, or rather linebreeding, could fix what is wrong with pits, but it would take a long time and a lot of culling. You could make a dog that looked like a pit but acted like a lab. At this time, it is not possible to get those qualities with any degree of predictability. Some are trying and even claiming success. They haven't had long enough yet. Would take another hundred years.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Momgoat sounds like you got pups from parents that didn't work livestock for a living. I have catahoulas and they still will work cattle and hogs and they're house dogs. Mainly because the parents are from direct working parents and I bred them and kept back one pup. All of them will work. Plus their littermates work when they're given the opportunity to do so. 

Lisa in WA, the main reason why there are so many pit bulls around is because it's one of the most overbred breeds in existence. Same problem with labradors, poodles, etc.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

TedH71 said:


> Momgoat sounds like you got pups from parents that didn't work livestock for a living. I have catahoulas and they still will work cattle and hogs and they're house dogs. Mainly because the parents are from direct working parents and I bred them and kept back one pup. All of them will work. Plus their littermates work when they're given the opportunity to do so.
> 
> Lisa in WA, the main reason why there are so many pit bulls around is because it's one of the most overbred breeds in existence. Same problem with labradors, poodles, etc.



Labrador and poodles don't kill like pits do. of course they are overbred. Look how many vicious thugs and stupid people abound in the population. Yes, of course I know there are good ones but the statistics don't lie. One just attacked a man and his small dog in my neighborhood yesterday.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Seems a lot of long post with all sorts of links in defence of pits.......Why?
I don't see any other dog discussed in this way.....Why?

I sure no one opinion or gut feeling has ever been changed in the interweb.
Love dogs.......but I don't like pits, ..never will.......don't like being around them.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

hunter63 said:


> Seems a lot of long post with all sorts of links in defence of pits.......Why?
> I don't see any other dog discussed in this way.....Why?
> 
> I sure no one opinion or gut feeling has ever been changed in the interweb.
> Love dogs.......but I don't like pits, ..never will.......don't like being around them.


All we ever hear is "it's about the owner, not the breed" which is bullhockey. Plenty of people with labs and poodles are bad owners but their dogs aren't out there killing people and other animals like pits are.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

BH English Shepherds: I'd love to see pics of your pups! Perfect farm dogs.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The worst deadly dog attack I have ever personally witnessed was perpetrated by a labrador. 32 sheep dead in a night,caught red handed, never could get a shot. All dogs are predators. The fact that they are good at killing stuff is why they were domesticated.


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## BH English Shepherds (Oct 27, 2017)

GotGoat said:


> Pumi. Hungarian herding breed. Smaller medium size non-shedding, easy to groom, good with kids and family, good watch dog, very easy to train, good of-leash, has an "off switch" good with lifestock. Watch them on YouTube type in Goatsheepshop. I breed them and use them daily for work. My website is www.catskillpumi.com. While you can get terrific shelter dogs once in a while, adopting a dog for farm work can be a risky since you do not know the background of the dog.





Lisa in WA said:


> BH English Shepherds: I'd love to see pics of your pups! Perfect farm dogs.


Hi Lisa,
Yes, English Shepherds are the perfect farm dog. 






















My website is www.englishshepherdspa.com
Facebook: www.facebook.com/briarhillenglishshepherds


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## momgoat (Jan 15, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> No dear, they were not bred as nanny dogs. As I said, even pit bull advocacy groups have rescinded that myth which I posted earlier so I'm guessing you don't know a whole lot.
> as far as what Rotties were originally bred for...oops, looks like you're wrong there too.
> http://www.therottweilerclub.co.uk/the-breed/history-of-the-breed/
> 
> Bottom line is : the stats don't lie. Pits cause the most fatalities of any breed and kill more pets and animals than any other breed. If you want to come onto on old thread and argue with facts, be my guest. It's generally what pit trash does.


Yes dear they were. I know a whole lot more about it then you assume. I have researched this breed (as has my husband over the last 30 + years). And just because "groups" choose to go PC doesn't mean everyone is wrong. 
As for Rottie's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rottweiler , http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/rottweiler#/slide/1 , http://www.therottweilerclub.co.uk/the-breed/history-of-the-breed/ , http://www.atlantahaus.com/rottweiler_origin_history.html 
Herding dogs, pulling carts & handling dangerous bulls..........exactly what I said.

Back to Pit's......"
The American Pit Bull Terrier comes from a combination of English and Irish stock brought to the US in the 19th century. Once in the US, pit bulls excelled as cattle dogs and "catch dogs" for pigs. And unfortunately, they were still used as fighting dogs.

However, the majority of pit bulls were NOT fought, instead earning their keep as hunters, herders, guardians and friends. Yes, friends. *Ease of training and a predisposition to interact well with humans was essential for all of their traditional jobs*." http://pitbulls.org/article/brief-history-american-pit-bull-terrier , http://www.pitbull411.com/history.html , https://vitaminsforpitbulls.com/ancient-origins-of-pit-bull-breeds/ , & last but not least........ http://workingpitbull.com/history.htm 

Posting only 1 link that fits your agenda, is doing a service to your claim & to the dogs. 
You can talk down to me all your highness desires, makes no never mind. But as a researcher for a variety of issues, I do not take only 1 source as fact. I rely on multiple sources for information. You may hate or dislike the breed of Pit Bull, for whatever reason, whether valid or not. But not all are bad dogs, not all deserve the negative stigma that most uneducated people give them. They are not scary or dogs to be feared as a breed. Are there dangerous pit's around our country? Absolutely. I am in an area that has an unground dog fighting ring that roams around a very large area. We've had dogs stolen (I had one stolen several years back) that are generally used as bait dogs (being attacked by the fighter to "hone their skill"). We have had dairy's busted for dog fighting & I have a friend who lives across the ditch from a Mexican that had a female fighting pit that she helped do away with it.
I also know of people who have these dogs that are pets, they are family dogs, they have kids that grew up with the pit, the dog has never harmed their kids, but actually protected them from their dad who was on drugs & alcohol & tried to break into their home & hurt their mom, the dog stood in front of the kids & wouldn't let the dad past.
I also know people who own Pit crosses to work their cattle or work their employers range cattle & have to deal with Canadian Wolves who try to attack them, their horses, their cattle & their dogs. If it wasn't for the Pit's protection of their human owners & their reluctance to back down, more than just a few losses of cattle would have happened over the years.
I've been attacked by Min-Pin's, Chihuahua's, labrador's & other "family pets" than I have ever had issues with Pit's, Rottie's, German Shepherd's etc. Everyone has their own preference or choice of what dog is the best.
And the original post wasn't set up for your rant against the Pit's. Its to determine which breed should the lady get that's good with kids & livestock. Everyone has their opinion & right to it, doesn't mean that your the only one who is right.

It depends on what will work for THEIR family & the kind of livestock that THEY will have. not you, not me or anyone else. You can scream until your blue in the face about how horrible YOU think a PIT is. Doesn't mean that YOU are right & everyone else is wrong.
Hope you have a great week & a good Turkey day.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Too busy to engage in verbal diarrhea with you (you DO love your words, don't you?) so I'll just end with saying, the statistics are what they are. You can't rationally argue with them. But I understand that you have a vested interest so you'll try. Knock yourself out with that, you hear?

The pit nutters love to screech that this site is biased, but the numbers and incidents are all backed up. It just SEEMS biased to the pitiots because it shows the truth.

Dogsbite.org


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## boerboy (Oct 7, 2012)

Deleted as this is a very old thread..


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

aoconnor1 said:


> I would definitely say a Catahoula would be a good ranch dog, but not for very cold places. My girls gets so cold here in the winter that I have to put her coat on her to go out and chore every day. And we live in North Central Texas where winters are pretty mild!!


Also living in North Central TX, it's gotten down in the low 20's with wind chills below that a few times since we got our Catahoula.
Our Catahoula loves it, she goes out, runs around, lays down and doesn't want to come in.
Also The people on "Alaska's Last Frontier" have a Catahoula that is outside much of the time.

Just a warning though, without a job to do, Catahoulas get bored quickly, and the last thing you want is a bored 'houla. Since we got rid of all our animals except for pets after my back issues and surgery, this means an hour+ at the dog park at least 5 days a week, with a day or two at a (heavy on playtime) doggie day care.

I love my 'houla but had I known I'd have to semi retire a year after we got her, I never would have-- she has a lot of energy. And no, after 3+ years, I'd never get rid of her, I believe a pet is a lifelong commitment.


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