# How deep do I need to till for a new garden?



## clovis (May 13, 2002)

I am hoping to put a garden out in the spring.

This ground hasn't been tilled in years. My dad keeps it well mowed.

I originally had planned to turn the garden with a shovel, since I didn't know anyone with a small tractor and plow. Sure, it would be a ton of work to turn the area with a shovel, but when it is one of your only options, you just do it.

I was talking with my cousin, who just bought a larger Kabota, about 3 years old, and a rear mounted tiller. He says it will do an awesome job tilling the new ground, even if it is compacted.

I'd love to use his tractor. He is just a mile away, and it would save me tons of work, not to mention the gas and wear and tear on the Troy-bilt tiller.

Thoughts?


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

If nothing else it is a good start, you can always double dig after tilling. With enough passes it would probably be deep enough. Only concern would be if there was a hardpan but since it has been grass for years it is probably ok....James


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

I would think a couple of passes in cross directions with the tractor tiller would do a good job of preparing your garden.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Kabota with a rear-mounted tiller? Shouldn't even be a question of what to use. May need more than one pass to get it down to maximum depth but you'd want it worked as deep as you can go for opening up new ground. 

Martin


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## dkhern (Nov 30, 2012)

i use tractor w tiller in mine tiller wont get a deep as breaking plow but will get deep enough


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## jeeper55 (Feb 24, 2008)

Not to mention the wear and tear on your body from doing it with a shovel. After a couple of shoulder surgery and auther in my knees i cold not do it anymore by hand.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

No question about using my cousin's tractor if he is serious about letting me use it.

He is a great guy, and super busy, so timing and finding him free when the ground is right might be the tricky part.

I just wanted to make sure that it will cut deep enough.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Most tillers should go down about 8" which is normally sufficient unless it's on really compacted soil. Then the ultimate is double-digging which goes down to 16". You can always go deeper for individual plants if you wish by digging 12" holes and mixing in compost or aged manure. Do that enough times and whole garden will be good down to that depth.

Martin


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Great idea, Martin!!!!

If I can make this work, this is exactly what I will do!!!! 

Now, the big question is:

How big do I make the garden? The offer of a rear mounted tiller on a tractor has my head full of ideas. Maybe I should till up the entire back lot, LOL!

Thank you so much for your replies!!!!!!


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

The more area you have, the more fun you can have with it. 2011 was 6,000 square feet which seems like a lot until you consider vining plants. Increased to 10,000 for 2012 with most of the extra being squash and melons. Didn't have to worry about having to keep any vines under control and weeding wasn't a major chore by having enough space to use the Mantis for much of the work.

Martin


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

clovis said:


> Great idea, Martin!!!!
> 
> If I can make this work, this is exactly what I will do!!!!
> 
> ...


Be careful. I bought a tractor about 3 years ago and seems I have the worst garden since. I went from one 2100 s.f. garden and added a 3500 s.f. corn patch and a 900 s.f. tator patch. 

Results: Way to much gardening to keep up with. At the same time I kept getting plagued by insects that was on the rise. I've purty much figured out that I'm not harvesting any more then I did before I bought the tractor. 

So if we ever come out of this drought were in, I might just scale back to the 2100 s.f. garden and just use my little Sears tiller. 

I've also realized that I don't really need to till up the whole area that I'm gonna raise my garden in. You only need to till that actual row before planting. In between the rows you leave alone and let the grass grow. Then use a walk behind mulch mower and just mow the grass when needed. It's a lot faster to mow the grass between the rows then it is to till the soil up to control the grass. This gives you more time to mulch around the plants to control weeds.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Although a lot of people leave grass between rows, it is not a good thing. Instructions for spacing between rows are for good reasons and not just to have a place to walk. That space is for the plant feeder roots to grow in. Most vegetables aren't able to compete with grass and suffer if forced to try. So, not a good idea unless the grass is kept at least a foot away from most plants.

Martin


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

clovis said:


> I am hoping to put a garden out in the spring.
> 
> This ground hasn't been tilled in years. My dad keeps it well mowed.
> 
> ...


What size Troy-Bilt? And what size are the tines on the Kubota? With grass sod, you will be kicking up that four inch thick mat of grass roots for quite a while until they decompose, no matter what tiller you use. It will take three to four passes with either to get enough root breakup to be able to make furrows and seedbeds, so you will have to time it as early as possible to get that part done beforehand. And remember, the root mass is biomass, so it will lock up your nitrogen until the microorganisms are done eating it.

Even with the best of tillers, it will take a few seasons and lots of added biomass to mellow and soften your ground. Because it is an iffey situation to get your cousin on time, I would suggest tilling as much as possible now, then working it with the Troy-Bilt as you go. You could establish a compost makin's plot with green manures, buckwheat, Crimson clover, etc for some of your "surplus" area. I also plant the potato plot in row spacing wider than necessary, so as to get down and dirty in the middles after the hilling is done. My Troy Bilt(Horse) then can reach down and break up compaction. Because I rotate the potatoes every year, eventually I get the entire garden 'decompressed'. 

geo


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

What kind of soil is it? If it's sandy or loam - you'll be fine either shovel or tractor, but do you honestly want to use that shovel? I did 3000 sq ft with one once. I'd go with the tractor. The only trouble you could have is heavy clay soil that you try to get tilled when it's too wet. 

I'd till as much area as possible. You can always grow clover or alfalfa on part of it to suppress weeds and improve the soil in that part while you improve your gardening skills by using the other. Then you could reverse it in a couple of years - so the entire garden gets a good dose of organic matter and tilth improvement. Or you could use other crops that don't take 2 years or more to do their best with your soil - annual rye, vetch, buckwheat or whatever. You could decide later if you needed more garden space or not. I'd love to have twice what I have now so I could use half and improve half each year.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Callieslamb said:


> do you honestly want to use that shovel?


No, not in a million years.

I must have mis-worded my OP. It wasn't a question of which do I use, but really one of "will the tiller cut deep enough?" 

The truth being said, my health isn't great. I worked a small plot this past summer with a shovel, and it about wore me out due to those health issues. I'd have to work the market garden plot in stages if I used a shovel. 

At the same time, I really don't know anyone in the area anymore that would or could jump on over with a small tractor without charging an arm and half of a left leg...not that I blame them...fuel and tires are expensive these days.

This upcoming attempt at the farmer's market is very small, and I want to keep it low budget, at least to start. No sense spending $150 to $200 to hire someone with a tractor, especially if this garden fails, or we don't enjoy doing it.

I also don't want to be one of those people who moan, gripe and complain because starting a garden is too expensive or can't be done without a tractor. In my world, you pick up a shovel and get to work. 

My cousin is a great guy. My guess is that we can work out an excellent trade for this work, or I can pay him cash.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

Paquebot said:


> So, not a good idea unless the grass is kept at least a foot away from most plants.
> 
> Martin


And that I do! In fact I've usually got about a foot distance of mulch around the plant before the grass starts.


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## jmtinmi (Feb 25, 2009)

We just did this very thing last year. DH tilled up a 100x100 plot for his garden. I wanted two 100 foot strips for my garden. He wanted to use the tractor for 'his' and I wanted to have a no till approach. 

The only thing we would do different is to kill the grass before tilling. The clumps were a pain to deal with.

Mixed results with our first year harvest, but it was a weird weather year. Looking forward to this year being planned a bit better.


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## grasser (Dec 28, 2012)

That rear mounted tiller will do the trick, with a couple passes. Killing the grass first with Roundup or something similar might be a good idea. 
Here's how we took care of working up our new garden spot at our farm this past year:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whvTQr7vLhg&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]

I fall plowed in October after a nice garden year and this year it should be even better.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

When we break a new area for gardening with our tiller we run it at a very shallow setting for the first pass to just scrape the sod off the soil. Then we rake that up and either add it to a compost pile of haul it out to a field where it gets plowed under.
Then we hit the soil with the tiller a couple of times.


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## prairie ogre (Oct 21, 2012)

I would spent the extra coin and have it ripped or deep chiseled, then go over it w the tiller. break that hard pan.


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

I am a firm believer in just "skimming" under the grass for the first pass, raking the grass/sod up and composting it. THEN work the soil. That being said, I'm too lazy to go to that effort so I just mount up the middlebuster and plow away. After way more passes from more directions than necessary I then have it fine enough to cultivate and plant.


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

Shovel vs. tiller? Really? XD Even my cruddy hand tiller I had to push was WAY better than a shovel.


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## dkhern (Nov 30, 2012)

in 08 when i started my garden it had been hay meadow ofr 25 yr i used tractor and tiller. earily spring two passes and laid off rows and planted. i space rows wide 6-8' i make two passes down each. adjust tiller to outside of tire make two passes. i have a crest in the near center of my garden. place water hose there and water goes both ways. i made a bracket to go on the outside edge of the tiller to take a plow point i circle the row or bed and turn up a furrow so i can run water in the middle and flood both ways. i use water hose and pimp at pond for water hose has a bubble on end so so dont dig holes via water pressure. i space out each row except corn so i can use tractor and tiller most of season. plant and as plants grow like peas turn runners down rows and keep tilling squash i how a hill around plant to hold water. tractor/tiller doesnt change the need to spend quite a bit of time on the bad end of a hoe


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

notbutanapron said:


> Shovel vs. tiller? Really? XD Even my cruddy hand tiller I had to push was WAY better than a shovel.


May I refer you back to posts 1, 7 and 15?


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