# Vaccine Passport



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Starting Friday, New Yorkers will be able to pull up a code on their cell phone or a printout to prove they've been vaccinated against COVID-19 or recently tested negative for the virus that causes it.

The first-in-the-nation certification, called the Excelsior Pass, will be useful first at large-scale venues like Madison Square Garden, but next week will be accepted at dozens of event, arts and entertainment venues statewide. It already enables people to increase the size of a wedding party, or other catered event.









New York launches nation's first 'vaccine passports.' Others are working on similar ideas, but many details must be worked out.


New York's new Excelsior Pass is part of a growing but disjointed effort to provide vaccine 'passports' or certifications useful for safe gatherings.



www.usatoday.com


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

There are three dozen vendors on the Darknet, which is not visible to search engines, that are selling fake certificates for up to $200 each, according to Check Point Research, a division of Check Point Software Technologies.

The purpose of the phony documentation is for buyers to allegedly use it to prove to employers, airline employees, cruise line personnel, government officials and other interested parties that a vaccine has been administered while, in fact, it hasn't.









Fake COVID Vaccine Certificates And Real Vaccines Are For Sale on Dark Web


Vendors are selling phony documents meant to fool authorities into thinking consumers have been vaccinated when, in fact, they have not been.




www.newsweek.com


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Pondering how far our freedoms have deteriorated.


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

I woke up early this am, pondering about how far we as a people have let the powers take over our lives with this covid. I got up, poured my coffee and read this thread. Now I am sure all the past predictions are true. Slowly I turn and see control everywhere. The only thing this certificate enables is for the gov't to havenmore control over the individual.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Just as the Feds withhold state funding to convince local governments to go along on something, I'm sure Uncle Bucks will use similar methods to entice the herds into the pen rather than use the electric prod.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I heard the retort of the starting gun, looked around and wondered why some did not react


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

I think the passports will only provide a false sense of security, but aside from that, someone is thinking of ways to cash in if you use their passport system.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> I think the passports will only provide a false sense of security, but aside from that, someone is thinking of ways to cash in if you use their passport system.


How do they "cash in"?

Who are "they"?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

We can't just have any fly by night selling ebay vaccines and signing off on "paperwork for a buck" set up shop.
There will have to be a new department formed with offices, staff, bureaucracies. A trustworthy network of pharmaceutical companies and sub corps to assist the government in implementation and operations.
Contracts must be written and approved.
Funding must be sourced or printed up.
"They" have held us and protected us for the past year+, who else could be more qualified?


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

How stupid - getting vaccinated doesn't mean you can't catch Covid-19. Being vaccinated just means your case of Covid will be milder. If you have it, even a very mild case with few or none overt symptoms, means you can spread it....


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

HDRider said:


> How do they "cash in"?
> 
> Who are "they"?


From ÿour second link

There are three dozen vendors on the Darknet, which is not visible to search engines, that are selling fake certificates for up to $200 each, according to Check Point Research, a division of Check Point Software Technologies.


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

Wolf mom said:


> How stupid - getting vaccinated doesn't mean you can't catch Covid-19. Being vaccinated just means your case of Covid will be milder. If you have it, even a very mild case with few or none overt symptoms, means you can spread it....


this is not the point of the certificate....pull the wool from over your eyes


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> From ÿour second link
> 
> There are three dozen vendors on the Darknet, which is not visible to search engines, that are selling fake certificates for up to $200 each, according to Check Point Research, a division of Check Point Software Technologies.


Minimal dollars involved relative to the big picture


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

stars at night said:


> this is not the point of the certificate....pull the wool from over your eyes


You have to want to see.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

HDRider said:


> There are three dozen vendors on the Darknet, which is not visible to search engines, that are selling fake certificates for up to $200 each, according to Check Point Research, a division of Check Point Software Technologies.
> 
> The purpose of the phony documentation is for buyers to allegedly use it to prove to employers, airline employees, cruise line personnel, government officials and other interested parties that a vaccine has been administered while, in fact, it hasn't.
> 
> ...


I look for legislation making this a crime with a penalty likely worse than for murder, rape, or robbery.


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

poppy said:


> I look for legislation making this a crime with a penalty likely worse than for murder, rape, or robbery.


follow this: first our nation is in an up roar about the elections, then during this along comes covid (conviently or not), then the masks, then the vaccines and now a certificate to prove you had the vaccine...hmmm, follow the control, follow the money for the pharmies, and follow what will come form this new certificate...follow the tightening of control and the gradual loss of our freedoms. What the hell????


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I don't think it is Pharma money moving the needle.

I think the Davos group has seen the success of totalitarian systems like China and have convinced themselves they can exert similar control, but in a more "benevolent" way, and make money in the process. It is for our own good. 

You will own nothing, and be happy.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

According to this article,

Airlines and others in the travel industry are throwing their support behind so-called vaccine passports to boost pandemic-depressed travel, and authorities in Europe could embrace the idea quickly enough for the peak summer vacation season.
*WHY DO TRAVEL COMPANIES WANT THEM?*
International air travel has collapsed during the pandemic, as countries impose restrictions such as quarantines or outright bans to curb the spread of the virus. Airlines are counting on vaccine passports to convince governments to drop some of those restrictions that discourage visitors.










Will you soon need a 'vaccine passport' to travel?


Airlines are counting on vaccine passports to convince governments around the world to drop some of the restrictions discouraging international visitors.




www.wkyc.com


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Wolf mom said:


> How stupid - getting vaccinated doesn't mean you can't catch Covid-19. Being vaccinated just means your case of Covid will be milder. If you have it, even a very mild case with few or none overt symptoms, means you can spread it....





stars at night said:


> this is not the point of the certificate....pull the wool from over your eyes


I do believe you missed the first two words - I understand entirely what the certificate means. For your edification, I was logically pointing out one substantiated reason that the certificate is meaningless. It's easy to go into more, although I sincerely hope you are not brainwashed by the media and can figure more out by yourself.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Could it be that these measures and the threat and talk of them is to encourage people to get the jab?

"Well if it's going to be required to travel, I might as well get it now while I can."


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

Wolf mom said:


> I do believe you missed the first two words - I understand entirely what the certificate means. For your edification, I was logically pointing out one substantiated reason that the certificate is meaningless. It's easy to go into more, although I sincerely hope you are not brainwashed by the media and can figure more out by yourself.


you completely missed my non medical point. Sorry you got upset---last thing I wanted.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> Could it be that these measures and the threat and talk of them is to encourage people to get the jab?
> 
> "Well if it's going to be required to travel, I might as well get it now while I can."


I know 3 people who were told by their employer "Get it or get out"
Big news about "hair discrimination" "racial discrimination" and 'gender discrimination". Yet, unvaxed (for silly little things like smallpox, measles, rubella and polio) are allowed to cross the border, yet the pressure for a flu shot (yes Covid is an influenza type virus) can cause a US citizen their right to work.

If my employer even hinted at that, I would reply about their increased odds of urinating upwardson a multistrand , braided piece of cordage than me doing that.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Riverdale said:


> multistrand , braided piece of cordage


I like that, now I will have to find someone to use it on.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

In reply to a previous post with incorrect information.

*Is the flu different from COVID-19?*

Influenza (Flu) and COVID-19 are both contagious respiratory illnesses, but they are caused by different viruses. COVID-19 is caused by infection with a new coronavirus (called SARS-CoV-2) and flu is caused by infection with influenza viruses.








Similarities and Differences between Flu and COVID-19


Know the common symptoms of flu and possible complications. It can cause mild to severe illness, and at times can lead to death.




www.cdc.gov




.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

A nationwide digital “vaccine passport" is being developed ,” The Washington Post reported.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

I read an article on this. One of the statements they made was "it is already required to have a negative Covid test to fly into the U.S. from a foreign country. Made me laugh.....you need a negative covid test to fly in legally, but walk across the border and you are fine.


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

hiddensprings said:


> I read an article on this. One of the statements they made was "it is already required to have a negative Covid test to fly into the U.S. from a foreign country. Made me laugh.....you need a negative covid test to fly in legally, but walk across the border and you are fine.


What's a person to do? Eh?


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

This is upsetting:

“If it became a government mandate, it would go down a dark road very quickly,” said Brian C. Castrucci, who leads the Bethesda, Md.-based de Beaumont Foundation, a public health group funding Luntz’s research into why some Americans are balking at the vaccine. “It becomes a credential. It becomes a ‘needing your papers,’ if you will. That could be dangerous — and it could turn off people.”


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

stars at night said:


> What's a person to do? Eh?


Legally come into the country. It's simply. We have rules and laws. If you want to be a part of our society, follow those laws. I don't understand why people can't grasp that concept


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

hiddensprings said:


> Legally come into the country. It's simply. We have rules and laws. If you want to be a part of our society, follow those laws. I don't understand why people can't grasp that concept


you don't get my manner of speech...it's a way of saying 'go along with the crowd'...it's said as a statement of agreement by Jews


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

stars at night said:


> follow this: first our nation is in an up roar about the elections, then during this along comes covid (conviently or not), then the masks, then the vaccines and now a certificate to prove you had the vaccine...hmmm, follow the control, follow the money for the pharmies, and follow what will come form this new certificate...follow the tightening of control and the gradual loss of our freedoms. What the hell????


and when a government is involved (vaccine documents) you would essentially be making a contractual agreement with that government when you present your "papers", which would most likely include criminal liability for anything they deem to be false or inadequate...


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

mamagoose said:


> and when a government is involved (vaccine documents) you would essentially be making a contractual agreement with that government when you present your "papers", which would most likely include criminal liability for anything they deem to be false or inadequate
> 
> 
> mamagoose said:
> ...


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

mamagoose said:


> and when a government is involved (vaccine documents) you would essentially be making a contractual agreement with that government when you present your "papers", which would most likely include criminal liability for anything they deem to be false or inadequate...


We are all lawbreakers. There are so many of them (laws) that are selectively enforced and prosecuted. But, that is the point. They can choose who as an enemy of the state based on whether you oppose them or are a threat to them or may become a threat to them. They have demonstrated quite effectively how dangerous it is to oppose them even when it is not a law, just a diktat from your local or state party member. Anyway, it will all be okay, please remain calm.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

HDRider said:


> I don't think it is Pharma money moving the needle.
> 
> I think the Davos group has seen the success of totalitarian systems like China and have convinced themselves they can exert similar control, but in a more "benevolent" way, and make money in the process. It is for our own good.
> 
> You will own nothing, and be happy.


I already don't own much and am happy.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

HDRider said:


> A nationwide digital “vaccine passport" is being developed ,” The Washington Post reported.


From that article.

"The effort has gained momentum amid President Biden’s pledge that the nation will start to regain normalcy this summer and with a growing number of companies — from cruise lines to sports teams — saying they will require proof of vaccination before opening their doors again."

If a private business requires a person have one to enter, is that not up to them? And if you don't want a passport-your choice-just don't complain a business blocks your access.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

keenataz said:


> If a private business requires a person have one to enter, is that not up to them? And if you don't want a passport-your choice-just don't complain a business blocks your access.


No one has argued against that


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Whatever happened to HIPPA laws and all of your health information remaining private?


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

Fishindude said:


> Whatever happened to HIPPA laws and all of your health information remaining private?


LOL


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Fishindude said:


> Whatever happened to HIPPA laws and all of your health information remaining private?


This new breed of woke socialist autocrats don't care anything about your so called rights. They truly believe that they know what is best for the poor ignorant masses. And if you disagree then you are some kind of a trouble maker who doesn't know what is good for you. You will be painted as a radical, right wing, white something or other, and the brain dead mob that lives on social media will go along with it. This is the new normal.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Wonder when the "immigrants" will be getting their card? Oh wait they aren't being vaccinated just turned lose, positive or not.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Fake vaccine cards available now!

Get them while their hot!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The stupidity of humans still surprises me on occasion.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

no really said:


> Wonder when the "immigrants" will be getting their card? Oh wait they aren't being vaccinated just turned lose, positive or not.


Why would they need a card? They are an oppressed minority, among the anointed, nobody has any right to question them.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

What would seem more discriminatory to the already disenfranchised- a photo ID to drive, vote, buy a gun, beer, ciggies, cough medicine, prove citizenship or a cootie card in order to enter the weed dispensary?
It could be either or neither depending on what you identify as.


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## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

Fishindude said:


> Whatever happened to HIPPA laws and all of your health information remaining private?


HIPAA only applies to "covered entitites" which is in essence those providing medical service of some kind (i.e. doc, hospital, insurance, pharmacy, etc). It does not, nor has it ever, applied to any other entity private or otherwise so the local newspaper, or anyone else for that matter, can disclose your medical information if he, she, or it gets ahold of it legally.

So if Grandma Jones tells the Daily Planet that Peter Parker has AIDS and they publish is, welp... sorry it's all good. (Yes, I know I crossed universes)


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

sharkerbaby said:


> HIPAA only applies to "covered entitites" which is in essence those providing medical service of some kind (i.e. doc, hospital, insurance, pharmacy, etc). It does not, nor has it ever, applied to any other entity private or otherwise so the local newspaper, or anyone else for that matter, can disclose your medical information if he, she, or it gets ahold of it legally.
> 
> So if Grandma Jones tells the Daily Planet that Peter Parker has AIDS and they publish is, welp... sorry it's all good. (Yes, I know I crossed universes)


Would that not make it perfectly legal if the local Cosco were to use or sell you name, address and any other personal information on your vaccination card for marketing purposes?


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## siberian1 (Aug 7, 2020)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Pondering how far our freedoms have deteriorated.


Even in some forum conversations. Freedom is not what it was.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

sharkerbaby said:


> HIPAA only applies to "covered entitites" which is in essence those providing medical service of some kind (i.e. doc, hospital, insurance, pharmacy, etc). It does not, nor has it ever, applied to any other entity private or otherwise so the local newspaper, or anyone else for that matter, can disclose your medical information if he, she, or it gets ahold of it legally.
> 
> So if Grandma Jones tells the Daily Planet that Peter Parker has AIDS and they publish is, welp... sorry it's all good. (Yes, I know I crossed universes)


I don't believe you are correct in your HIPAA characterization. HIPAA covers precisely what "covered entities" can do with your information. Subsequent clarifications in court cases have determined that non-covered entities cannot even ask about such matters to engage in public access. Granted, I have been out of that world of needing to know these things for 10 years now; but, I was hip (pun intended) deep in that stuff back then and since it was passed in the 90's, I doubt that much has changed. Parts of HIPAA that were covered in those court cases were specifically to keep private entities from access to your medical records to prevent discrimination based on your medical condition.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

keenataz said:


> From that article.
> 
> "The effort has gained momentum amid President Biden’s pledge that the nation will start to regain normalcy this summer and with a growing number of companies — from cruise lines to sports teams — saying they will require proof of vaccination before opening their doors again."
> 
> If a private business requires a person have one to enter, is that not up to them? And if you don't want a passport-your choice-just don't complain a business blocks your access.


With the variety of highly effective vaccines now available why would a vaccine passport be needed ? Makes no medical sense to require one, so why ?


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## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

wr said:


> Would that not make it perfectly legal if the local Cosco were to use or sell you name, address and any other personal information on your vaccination card for marketing purposes?


Depends on how they obtained the information. And don't confuse "personally identifiable information" aka PII, with medical information. Release of PII is covered under other bits of regulation and how, who, when, why, etc. Many of the various regulations trip over each other, then add in each state can also place restrictions covering various circumstances and entities it can get quite complex.



Hiro said:


> I don't believe you are correct in your HIPAA characterization. HIPAA covers precisely what "covered entities" can do with your information. Subsequent clarifications in court cases have determined that non-covered entities cannot even ask about such matters to engage in public access. Granted, I have been out of that world of needing to know these things for 10 years now; but, I was hip (pun intended) deep in that stuff back then and since it was passed in the 90's, I doubt that much has changed. Parts of HIPAA that were covered in those court cases were specifically to keep private entities from access to your medical records to prevent discrimination based on your medical condition.


I too have been quite involved in HIPAA compliance, as well as ADA compliance, and PII compliance so take that for whatever value you want to place on it. The restrictions aren't so much that the non-covered entities can't ask for it, it is that the _covered_ entities can't _release_ it without the patient's written authorization, that is the reasoning behind judicial judgements. It is the ADA protections that ensure individuals aren't asked for medical information and by extension justifications for accommodations. It was the ADA protections that were abused so blatantly that allowed "fake" emotional support animals to be taken virtually everywhere and how we found people trying to take emotional support peacocks onto airplanes, and emotional support geckos into dorm rooms, and emotional support turkeys into apartment buildings.

eta: Almost forgot, I'm versed in FERPA requirements as well. And this is relevant because medical records requested and maintained by schools is covered under FERPA not HIPAA


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wr said:


> Would that not make it perfectly legal if the local Cosco were to use or sell you name, address and any other personal information on your vaccination card for marketing purposes?


That info isn’t on the vaccine card. Only name and date of birth, which of course your license has if you’re asked to prove your identity to buy liquor or write a check.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

siberian1 said:


> Even in some forum conversations. Freedom is not what it was.


It may surprise you to know that HT is not US owned.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> That info isn’t on the vaccine card. Only name and date of birth, which of course your license has if you’re asked to prove your identity to buy liquor or write a check.


It will be interesting to see how it's handled in Canada. My province is talking about putting our health care number on our license and I'm not sure how I feel about that. 

I'd be pretty excited if I got carded but I don't know of anyplace in town actually accepts cheques anymore.


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## siberian1 (Aug 7, 2020)

wr said:


> It may surprise you to know that HT is not US owned.


 The answer is the same. Time changes, situations change, location is just a location. Have seen many changes in Canada as well, and they are disagred upon as well. History truely does seem to repeat itself, and that is all over the world. In the book/play/movie of "12 Angry Men" one of the key things brought up by a person of the jury was how many times we hear the phrase "kill him. In 1957 this was said at baseball game, boxing matches and many other places. Today, well not so. Freedoms change and sementics still play a vital roll.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Expect to show some sort of proof — either of a negative test or of vaccination — when traveling. “You should be planning on showing your negative test or staying home if you don’t have one,” Tariro says.​

The European Union, for example, has announced plans for the Digital Green Certificate, a so-called vaccine passport that countries can use to verify a person’s health status and allow free travel across the bloc.​

the development of a vaccine passport in the U.S. to the private sector. At least 17 initiatives are underway, The Washington Post reported. 

In Britain, Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said that vaccine passports would “definitely” play a role in the future for international travel. China has already introduced its own digital certificate, which shows a person’s vaccine and testing history, and South Korea recently announced it would issue vaccine passports to immunized citizens using a mobile app. 

In Israel, a possible vision of the postpandemic future is on display. More than half of Israelis have received both vaccine shots, and cases have dropped by 90 percent. The economy has reopened with help from a “Green Pass,” an entry ticket to society. The pass isn’t being widely used for international travel — Israel is still closed to foreign visitors out of fear of variants — but it offers access to restaurants, concerts and more. 





__





The Morning: The state of summer vacation






messaging-custom-newsletters.nytimes.com


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

And the name of the passport will be - - - the Freedom Passport!


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

keenataz said:


> From that article.
> 
> "The effort has gained momentum amid President Biden’s pledge that the nation will start to regain normalcy this summer and with a growing number of companies — from cruise lines to sports teams — saying they will require proof of vaccination before opening their doors again."
> 
> If a private business requires a person have one to enter, is that not up to them? And if you don't want a passport-your choice-just don't complain a business blocks your access.


I'm guessing that it's only vaccinated people taking the position that everyone needs to show their vaccination papers in order to walk, talk, enjoy life as they always have or to engage in business freely. Can someone explain why are vaccinated people so terrified of a virus, at the same time their argument as to why they insist on everyone else taking it is because the vaccine is so effective?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mamagoose said:


> Can someone explain why are vaccinated people are so terrified of a virus, at the same time their argument as to why they insist on everyone else taking it is because the vaccine is so effective?


Excellent question


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

mamagoose said:


> I'm guessing that it's only vaccinated people taking the position that everyone needs to show their vaccination papers in order to walk, talk, enjoy life as they always have or to engage in business freely. Can someone explain why are vaccinated people so terrified of a virus, at the same time their argument as to why they insist on everyone else taking it is because the vaccine is so effective?


I'm vaccinated, not terrified of the virus, and I don't give a rat's ass if you get the shot or not.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

todd_xxxx said:


> I'm vaccinated, not terrified of the virus, and I don't give a rat's ass if you get the shot or not.


Thank you for your most eloquent response


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

HDRider said:


> Thank you for your most eloquent response


I guess huge, sweeping generalities bring out the best in me.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

todd_xxxx said:


> I'm vaccinated, not terrified of the virus, and I don't give a rat's ass if you get the shot or not.


That statement makes me think you believe the vaccine is a panacea for life.

Ding Ding Ding _It will not prevent you from catching it or it's variants or from being a carrier. And the longest the vaccine will last, to date, is Pfizer's for 6 months. _

All it will do, like the pneumonia shot, is keep you from dying if you catch Covid-19.


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## jeepgrrl (Jun 3, 2020)

Fishindude said:


> Whatever happened to HIPPA laws and all of your health information remaining private?


Actually I looked this up before b/c I thought the same thing. Because the pandemic has caused a national health crisis, it seems that the powers-that-be can access public health information without consent. Yet another example of our rights being stripped away.

*The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996*

*What is the HIPAA Privacy Rule?*
To implement HIPAA, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (“HHS”) issued the “Standards for Privacy of Individually Identifiable Health Information” (the “Privacy Rule”), which established a set of national standards to address the use and disclosure of individuals’ health information—called “protected health information” – by organizations subject to the Privacy Rule—called “covered entities” – as well as standards for individuals’ privacy rights to understand and control how their health information is used.

*Implications for Public Health*
The Privacy Rule strikes a balance between protecting patient information and allowing traditional public health activities to continue. Generally, disclosure of protected health information without the authorization of the individual is permitted for purposes including but not limited to:

disclosures required by law (45 CFR § 164.512(a)) or
for “public health activities and purposes.” This includes disclosure to “a public health authority that is authorized by law to collect or receive such information for the purpose of preventing or controlling disease, injury, or disability, including but not limited to, the reporting of disease, injury, vital events…, and the conduct of public health surveillance,… investigations, and… interventions.” (45 CFR § 164.512(b)(i))
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-managers/laws/hipaa/overview.html


And then there is this gem:

*The Confusion Over Privacy: HIPAA, the Constitution, and COVID-19*

Tuesday, June 2, 2020
*Introduction*
The right to privacy has always been heavily debated, especially because the Constitution does not provide any definitive right of privacy. But the battle regarding privacy in healthcare seemed to have been resolved with the passing of the Healthcare Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) in 1996. *However, reacting to the COVID-19 pandemic the Office of Civil Rights (OCR) and other agencies suspended important aspects of HIPAA and Congress passed the, ‘Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act,’ (CARES Act). The CARES Act now creates a paper trail of someone’s health status that will follow them through countless areas of life. *The reaction to COVID-19 has created the exact atmosphere that HIPAA aspired to eliminate. The present-day incentives for releasing patient information ultimately begs for constitutional analysis. Was HIPAA the Constitution’s unofficial Privacy Amendment? Is it unconstitutional to suspend HIPAA? Is the CARES Act in violation of HIPAA and/or the Constitution? 
The Confusion Over Privacy: HIPAA, the Constitution, and COVID-19


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## jeepgrrl (Jun 3, 2020)

mamagoose said:


> and when a government is involved (vaccine documents) you would essentially be making a contractual agreement with that government when you present your "papers", which would most likely include criminal liability for anything they deem to be false or inadequate...


I agree...it won't stop with just the vaccine info, the govt will find ways to add other "pertinent" information to one's papers, reminiscent of Nazi Germany.


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

MoonRiver said:


> And the name of the passport will be - - - the Freedom Passport!


LOL


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## jeepgrrl (Jun 3, 2020)

Where we live, I can't really see this passport thing lasting very long (if at all) at local restaurants/bars and businesses. The barriers that are installed at the bars usually end up pushed at the end of the bar, and every seat taken, no 6 ft distancing. Another restaurant we went to y'day has the wood frames attached to the bar, but the plexiglas is missing (virtual barriers, i guess, lol). No 6 feet distancing, we're down to 3 or less. Signs are on doors to wear masks, but groups of folks parade in without them, and if people are wearing masks, they are either really funky dirty, not positioned over the nose and mouth correctly, or both. The restaurants that are trying to be compliant are usually the ones where you can get a seat b/c no one is going there, everyone flocks to the places that have gone lax regarding the mandates.

At this point in time and space, a passport will do nothing but show that the individual who has received the vaccine has the likelihood of less severe/no symptoms if they contract Covid-19; it is not proof that they can't spread it or are not a carrier.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Wolf mom said:


> Ding Ding Ding _It will not prevent you from catching it or it's variants or from being a carrier. And the longest the vaccine will last, to date, is Pfizer's for 6 months. _


1, There is documented evidence that all three vaccines in use here prevent covid-19 infections.
2. Studies are still underway to determine if vaccinated people can still be carriers. They simply don't know yet.
3. The Pfizer study has confirmed that protection lasts at least six months. The study does not say that six months is the extent of protection.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

todd_xxxx said:


> I'm vaccinated, not terrified of the virus, and I don't give a rat's ass if you get the shot or not.


That is the attitude all should have.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> 1, There is documented evidence that all three vaccines in use here prevent covid-19 infections.
> 2. Studies are still underway to determine if vaccinated people can still be carriers. They simply don't know yet.
> 3. The Pfizer study has confirmed that protection lasts at least six months. The study does no say that six months is the extent of protection.


Sentence one and two would contradict each other.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Wolf mom said:


> That statement makes me think you believe the vaccine is a panacea for life.
> 
> Ding Ding Ding _It will not prevent you from catching it or it's variants or from being a carrier. And the longest the vaccine will last, to date, is Pfizer's for 6 months. _
> 
> All it will do, like the pneumonia shot, is keep you from dying if you catch Covid-19.



I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion from my post, because I in no way alluded to any of the things you gathered from it. 

They don't know how long it will last because no one has been vaccinated long enough to tell yet.

If all it does is keep a person from dying, that seems like a pretty substantial benefit, but evidence seems to show that that isn't all it does. So far, all three vaccines seem to be 100% effective against serious covid and death. I'm pretty fond of things that keep me from serious illness and dying. And again, I don't care if anyone else gets the shot or not.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Apparently China has asked the World Health Organization to appoint China to operate a worldwide vaccine card system. Think about that. A virus originates in China, quite possibly from the Wuhan lab either by accident or on purpose and China stops air travel in China but allows infected people to fly abroad and the WHO dismisses the danger for as long as possible and denies it came from China until the evidence showed otherwise. Then the WHO just did a 'study' which determined the virus likely came from bats even though China did not allow them to investigate. Now China, the same country with horrible human rights and which gives its citizens a social credit score wants to be in charge of your vaccine information. Anyone have a problem with that?

Data Firm Head: China Has Asked WHO to Let it Run Global Vaccine Passport System – Summit News


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

todd_xxxx said:


> I'm vaccinated, not terrified of the virus, and I don't give a rat's ass if you get the shot or not.


I care, insofar as the more people who get vaccinated the faster we can resume business as usual. If your doctor recommends against you getting vaccinated then follow his advice. If you're not taking it because you don't believe in science, then you're hurting yourself and the rest of us by not getting vaccinated.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> I care, insofar as the more people who get vaccinated the faster we can resume business as usual. If your doctor recommends against you getting vaccinated then follow his advice. If you're not taking it because you don't believe in science, then you're hurting yourself and the rest of us by not getting vaccinated.


I dont care about your opinions. 
You've been so wrong about so much so often.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

A lot will depend on the number of illegals that have covid as they are going to spread out over the US, some have already left for different areas. Some have tested positive and are allowed to leave. One article said the children were up to 50% positive.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> I dont care about your opinions.


I'm shocked...


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> If your doctor recommends against you getting vaccinated then follow his advice. If you're not taking it because you don't believe in science, then you're hurting yourself and the rest of us by not getting vaccinated.


You spilled a little Koolaid on your keyboard before you finished the options. 
Some folks are choosing (choosing/choice/freedom of consent/individual right) not to have the shot because well, they don't wanna. Science? It doesn't have to have anything to do with science, or your interpretation of science. They might be following their own advice, their own conscious or it just isn't any of your business why.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> Science? It doesn't have to have anything to do with science, or your interpretation of science.


Vaccines are all about science. Be that is it may, if you don't get the vaccine you're prolonging the pandemic, which impacts us all. I would go so far as the say that getting the vaccine is a patriotic act.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

You probably don't realize that when you evoke terms like "Patriotic" and such to try and goad others to your pov then you tend to sound similar to those in other countries who speak to their comrades of duty and being a good citizen.


----------



## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

Nevada said:


> I care, insofar as the more people who get vaccinated the faster we can resume business as usual. If your doctor recommends against you getting vaccinated then follow his advice. If you're not taking it because you don't believe in science, then you're hurting yourself and the rest of us by not getting vaccinated.


The vaccine manufacturers are not liable what they have created to be injected in your body, there have been no long term studies on the multiple possible issues that could result and to this their response is that none of those possibilities have any credence, because there is no "evidence". Of course, there is no evidence yet. To "believe in science" does not mean much...take DDT for a simple historical example, quite scientific and used extensively for its scientific attributes...

Why are there doctors all over this country recommending that pregnant woman get a vaccination and just as many are recommending against it...vaccines that have never had any testing and certainly no long term research on pregnant women and their babies? 

It is not okay for anyone to accuse someone that they are "hurting" anyone "by not getting vaccinated", or that somehow, they are hurting themselves. And why is it not a person's right to choose natural immunity over a vaccination?


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Vaccines are all about science. Be that is it may, if you don't get the vaccine you're prolonging the pandemic, which impacts us all. I would go so far as the say that getting the vaccine is a patriotic act.


And you would be wrong in that statement.

Informed consent. Have you heard of that? What would be the first word in that phrase? I would like information on any long term (5-10 years out) side effects of this vaccination. (BTW, just the same as I require for any new medication or vaccine prior to putting it into my body.) Can you provide that to me?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> Informed consent. Have you heard of that?


The phrase has been updated now to "Manufactured Consent".


----------



## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Vaccines are all about science. Be that is it may, if you don't get the vaccine you're prolonging the pandemic, which impacts us all. I would go so far as the say that getting the vaccine is a patriotic act.


Here's another example of "science" -- this guy was involved in "stem cell science" via CHINESE research and development labs, using aborted babies of women he had raped.
For Peter Nygard, Alone and Jailed, Rags-to-Riches Story Turns Upside Down - The New York Times (nytimes.com)


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

mamagoose said:


> Here's another example of "science" -- this guy was involved in "stem cell science" via CHINESE research and development labs, using aborted babies of women he had raped.
> For Peter Nygard, Alone and Jailed, Rags-to-Riches Story Turns Upside Down - The New York Times (nytimes.com)


Good grief.


----------



## StL.Ed (Mar 6, 2011)

Nevada said:


> 1, There is documented evidence that all three vaccines in use here prevent covid-19 infections.
> 2. Studies are still underway to determine if vaccinated people can still be carriers. They simply don't know yet.
> 3. The Pfizer study has confirmed that protection lasts at least six months. The study does not say that six months is the extent of protection.


On point #2: If studies are still underway, they are probably wasting money. There is enough evidence of "breakthrough" cases to show that fully vaccinated people can become infected; and, if fully vaccinated people can become infected, they can, obviously, spread the infection.








Vaccinated People Can Get Covid, but It’s Most Likely Very Rare (Published 2021)


“Breakthrough” cases, though quite uncommon, are a sharp reminder that vaccinated people should wear masks while the virus is circulating widely.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> You probably don't realize that when you evoke terms like "Patriotic" and such to try and goad others to your pov then you tend to sound similar to those in other countries who speak to their comrades of duty and being a good citizen.


What's more patriotic than saving American lives, reopening the economy, and providing young people with quality education? Wearing an American flag lapel pin in public?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

StL.Ed said:


> On point #2: If studies are still underway, they are probably wasting money. There is enough evidence of "breakthrough" cases to show that fully vaccinated people can become infected; and, if fully vaccinated people can become infected, they can, obviously, spread the infection.


102 breakthrough cases per million seems like pretty good odds.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> What's more patriotic than saving American lives, reopening the economy, and providing young people with quality education? Wearing an American flag lapel pin in public?


If that is your idea of patriotism you should stand in front of an abortion mill.
That's a gold mine of lives just waiting to be saved by someone like you.
After all, life at conception is science too.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

mamagoose said:


> Here's another example of "science" -- this guy was involved in "stem cell science" via CHINESE research and development labs, using aborted babies of women he had raped.
> For Peter Nygard, Alone and Jailed, Rags-to-Riches Story Turns Upside Down - The New York Times (nytimes.com)


You can't possibly think you just made a valid point.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> If that is your idea of patriotism you should stand in front of an abortion mill.


It seemed like patriotism meant saving American lives in the aftermath of 9/11. That's changed?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Dr. Mike Yeadon is a scientist who is familiar to regular readers of _Health Impact News_. Being the former Vice President and Chief Scientific Officer of the Allergy & Respiratory Research division within the pharmaceutical company Pfizer, he has an insider perspective on the new experimental COVID injections, and has been trying to sound the alarm on them since last year (2020). 

_I’m well aware of the global crimes against humanity being perpetrated against a large proportion of the worlds population.

I feel great fear, but I’m not deterred from giving expert testimony to multiple groups of able lawyers like Rocco Galati in Canada and Reiner Fuellmich in Germany.

I have absolutely no doubt that we are in the presence of evil (not a determination I’ve ever made before in a 40-year research career) and dangerous products.

In the U.K., it’s abundantly clear that the authorities are bent on a course which will result in administering ‘vaccines’ to as many of the population as they can. This is madness, because even if these agents were legitimate, protection is needed only by those at notably elevated risk of death from the virus. In those people, there might even be an argument that the risks are worth bearing. And there definitely are risks which are what I call ‘mechanistic’: inbuilt in the way they work.

But all the other people, those in good health and younger than 60 years, perhaps a little older, they don’t perish from the virus. In this large group, it’s wholly unethical to administer something novel and for which the potential for unwanted effects after a few months is completely uncharacterized._









Former Pfizer Chief Scientific Officer on Experimental COVID Injections: “I Have Absolutely no Doubt that we are in the Presence of Evil”


Dr. Mike Yeadon is a scientist who is familiar to regular readers of Health Impact News. Being the former Vice President and Chief Scientific Officer of the Allergy & Respiratory Research division within the pharmaceutical company Pfizer, he has an insider perspective on the new experimental...




healthimpactnews.com


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> I'm shocked...


Really....


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Here is a pretty good story about Yeadon's flip-flopping on covid. 









The ex-Pfizer scientist who became an anti-vax hero.


The ex-Pfizer scientist who became an anti-vax hero.




www.reuters.com


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

todd_xxxx said:


> Here is a pretty good story about Yeadon's flip-flopping on covid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why did he flip?


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> It seemed like patriotism meant saving American lives in the aftermath of 9/11. That's changed?


That has to be one of the stupidest things you've ever said. You've been very clear you don't care about our rights, especially if they are taken by a Democrat. 
You should seek help about this mental disorder. You really should.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> It seemed like patriotism meant saving American lives in the aftermath of 9/11. That's changed?


That's an interesting advertising slogan, wonder who came up with it, the government or pharma?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> That has to be one of the stupidest things you've ever said. You've been very clear you don't care about our rights, especially if they are taken by a Democrat.
> You should seek help about this mental disorder. You really should.


I don't believe that there has ever been a loss of constitutional rights on the wholesale scale that we saw in the aftermath of 9/11. We never got those rights back, and probably never will. I was screaming from the highest yardarm, but conservatives told me that I was being unpatriotic.

I suspect that conservatives trusted GWB with those rights because he was their guy. They believed that he wouldn't abuse those rights and would restore those rights as soon as the threat was managed. That was a terrible mistake.

But this is very different. I just want to see as many Americans vaccinated as possible. It only benefits us all.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

HDRider said:


> Why did he flip?


No one seems to know. He went from this "He tweeted: “Covid 19 is not going away. Until we have a vaccine or herd immunity” – natural resistance resulting from prior exposure to the virus – “all that can be done is to slow its spread.” A week later he tweeted: “A vaccine might be along towards the end of 2021, if we’re really lucky.” to saying that the vaccine causes female infertility, a claim for which there seems to be no evidence whatsoever. He has made many predictions about covid, and none of them so far have come about in line with his point of view. He was fired by Pfizer, so maybe he is bitter about that? Who knows.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> I don't believe that there has ever been a loss of constitutional rights on the wholesale scale that we saw in the aftermath of 9/11. We never got those rights back, and probably never will. I was screaming from the highest yardarm, but conservatives told me that I was being unpatriotic.
> 
> I suspect that conservatives trusted GWB with those rights because he was their guy. They believed that he wouldn't abuse those rights and would restore those rights as soon as the threat was managed. That was a terrible mistake.
> 
> But this is very different. I just want to see as many Americans vaccinated as possible. It only benefits us all.


But your good with vaccination passports....
That, says it all.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

JeffreyD said:


> But your good with vaccination passports....
> That, says it all.


In fairness, there is a pretty big difference between wanting people to get vaccinated, and being good with the vaccine passport.


----------



## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

todd_xxxx said:


> I'm vaccinated, not terrified of the virus, and I don't give a rat's ass if you get the shot or not.


That's great news. Does that mean that you're also ok with being in the vicinity of someone who has not been vaccinated or do you expect those people to stay home?


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

sharkerbaby said:


> That's great news. Does that mean that you're also ok with being in the vicinity of someone who has not been vaccinated or do you expect those people to stay home?


Why would I care about that? People not vaccinated are more at risk of getting covid than people that are vaccinated, so yes, I'm completely fine with being around people that aren't vaccinated. I made my choice, they can make theirs.


----------



## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

That's great. Thank you. You apparently are the exception and I for one appreciate it.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> I care, insofar as the more people who get vaccinated the faster we can resume business as usual. If your doctor recommends against you getting vaccinated then follow his advice. If you're not taking it because you don't believe in science, then you're hurting yourself and the rest of us by not getting vaccinated.


Why ? Those that get the vaccine have no worries. The rest also seem to have no worries. So why the worry ?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

todd_xxxx said:


> In fairness, there is a pretty big difference between wanting people to get vaccinated, and being good with the vaccine passport.


We all want this pandemic to end. Nobody is in favor of businesses closing, job loss, personal bankruptcy, and certainly not in favor of loss of life. We tried pretending that the pandemic wasn't a big deal but things just got worse. Our options for ending the pandemic are limited, and vaccines appear to be our best hope. So even people who don't want to take these vaccines themselves should still be in favor of widespread acceptance of vaccines. That's what's going to get the economy opened up again.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> It seemed like patriotism meant saving American lives in the aftermath of 9/11. That's changed?


That is what I am asking. Science confirms life begins at conception. Is joining the fight against infanticide something we should all band together for? Lock arms and wave flags along the sidewalks in front of the mills, petition our congress, build our unity into a single national voice for the good of the children. How could you not be overjoyed at the thought of saving 600,000 lives every year, based on science, community and nationalism?
Consider the boost to our economy that a half million Americans could be contributing each year.
Doesn't that seem patriotic? Saving American lives in the aftermath of 1973?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> Science confirms life begins at conception.


I'm not all that knowledgeable about life science topics, so I don't know the basis for that finding. Can you help me out on that?


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> We all want this pandemic to end. Nobody is in favor of businesses closing, job loss, personal bankruptcy, and certainly not in favor of loss of life. We tried pretending that the pandemic wasn't a big deal but things just got worse. Our options for ending the pandemic are limited, and vaccines appear to be our best hope. So even people who don't want to take these vaccines themselves should still be in favor of widespread acceptance of vaccines. That's what's going to get the economy opened up again.


Doesn't sound like our leaders want the spread of covid to stop, since they have opened the borders to those that are not vaccinated and some are covid positive. These people are being allowed to go where they want in the US. Sounds like an invitation to a super spreader event.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> I'm not all that knowledgeable about life science topics, so I don't know the basis for that finding. Can you help me out on that?


You have been using the science word without a single link thruout this thread, and now you aren't knowledgeable?
You continue to claim the economy would jump to life, if we would just get in line, but no links or research to support that.
You claim it is our patriotic duty to help save American lives, but you don't understand the value of a life as it is created?
Are the lives that have more or less value than others? 100 that die here seem like a means that justifies the ends if it is for your cause, but in other venues it isn't, or now you seem confused.
I can't help you if you don't tell me what proof you are basing your sure bets on.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> You have been using the science word without a single link thruout this thread, and now you aren't knowledgeable?


You can ask me about gas law behavior, and I'll ask you about biology. Fair enough?


----------



## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Wolf mom said:


> That statement makes me think you believe the vaccine is a panacea for life.
> 
> Ding Ding Ding _It will not prevent you from catching it or it's variants or from being a carrier. And the longest the vaccine will last, to date, is Pfizer's for 6 months. _
> 
> All it will do, like the pneumonia shot, is keep you from dying if you catch Covid-19.


And how can we really believe in that claim that any shot or anything can keep someone from dying?
Surely there is no guarantee at all.


----------



## StL.Ed (Mar 6, 2011)

Nevada said:


> 102 breakthrough cases per million seems like pretty good odds.


I don't know where you came up with 102 per million, since you didn't cite your source. The article I linked to shows closer to 500 known cases per million as of the time of the studies.


> One study found that just four out of 8,121 fully vaccinated employees at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas became infected. The other found that only seven out of 14,990 workers at UC San Diego Health and the David Geffen School of Medicine at the University of California, Los Angeles tested positive two or more weeks after receiving a second dose of either the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccines.


But, perhaps your math is as flawed as the logic of your response. My post was not addressing the probability of being infectious after receiving the vaccine; but, rather, I was simply addressing the fact that it indeed seems possible.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Nevada said:


> What's more patriotic than saving American lives, reopening the economy, and providing young people with quality education? Wearing an American flag lapel pin in public?


Gee, I don't know, maybe respecting the rights of individuals to make their own decisions about their own bodies? Lots of folks could stand to learn that lesson.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

StL.Ed said:


> I don't know where you came up with 102 per million, since you didn't cite your source.


We have a thread in this forum based on that number.









"Breakthrough" covid cases confirmed


As the number of vaccinated people increases, so do the numbers of people who test positive for covid after being fully vaccinated. The experts are quick to comment that no vaccine is 100% effective and there are only a very small number of people who have "breakthrough" covid. You have to do...




www.homesteadingtoday.com


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

todd_xxxx said:


> In fairness, there is a pretty big difference between wanting people to get vaccinated, and being good with the vaccine passport.


Is he good with having to get a passport?
Are you?


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> We all want this pandemic to end. Nobody is in favor of businesses closing, job loss, personal bankruptcy, and certainly not in favor of loss of life. We tried pretending that the pandemic wasn't a big deal but things just got worse. Our options for ending the pandemic are limited, and vaccines appear to be our best hope. So even people who don't want to take these vaccines themselves should still be in favor of widespread acceptance of vaccines. That's what's going to get the economy opened up again.


I dont care if you get one or not. Don't force me too.
Don't force me to have to get a permission slip either.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The stupidity of humans still surprises me on occasion.


Really???

It has become the norm here.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> I dont care if you get one or not. Don't force me too.


OK, I've ignored that enough times that I need to speak up. When did I suggest forcing people to get vaccinated? I have encouraged people to do it, but never tried for force anyone.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> OK, I've ignored that enough times that I need to speak up. When did I suggest forcing people to get vaccinated? I have encouraged people to do it, but never tried for force anyone.


Are you for or against proving that you got vaccinated to travel or do anything?
Prove that you've never tried to force anyone to get vaccinated.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> OK, I've ignored that enough times that I need to speak up. When did I suggest forcing people to get vaccinated? I have encouraged people to do it, but never tried for force anyone.


Really? I got mine because you told me to.


----------



## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

todd_xxxx said:


> No one seems to know. He went from this "He tweeted: “Covid 19 is not going away. Until we have a vaccine or herd immunity” – natural resistance resulting from prior exposure to the virus – “all that can be done is to slow its spread.” A week later he tweeted: “A vaccine might be along towards the end of 2021, if we’re really lucky.” to saying that the vaccine causes female infertility, a claim for which there seems to be no evidence whatsoever. He has made many predictions about covid, and none of them so far have come about in line with his point of view. He was fired by Pfizer, so maybe he is bitter about that? Who knows.


It would appear from different articles linked to him that he was no longer working for Pfizer years before the chinavirus came along.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

JeffreyD said:


> Is he good with having to get a passport?
> Are you?


I don't care about it either way. I have no idea what he thinks. I just said that wanting people to get vaccinated isn't the same as thinking everyone should have a vaccine passport to travel. But since you addressed me directly, I do have a question for you. Why are you unable to discuss it without such open hostility?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> You can ask me about gas law behavior, and I'll ask you about biology. Fair enough?


I'd rather ask you to respond to my questions, which directly address your posts.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

todd_xxxx said:


> Why are you unable to discuss it without such open hostility?


That's the way it is now. You're either with him or against him -- no middle ground. People who disagree are no longer people with a different point of view, they are the enemy.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Nevada said:


> That's the way it is now. You're either with him or against him -- no middle ground. People who disagree are no longer people with a different point of view, they are the enemy.


I don’t think so. I disagree with many of the conservative posters here on various issues and agree with them on others, and they aren’t hostile to me. I count many of them as friends here. We all have our own viewpoints and perspectives and I think there is room for that. Certain issues just bring up strong feelings.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

todd_xxxx said:


> I don't care about it either way. I have no idea what he thinks. I just said that wanting people to get vaccinated isn't the same as thinking everyone should have a vaccine passport to travel. But since you addressed me directly, I do have a question for you. Why are you unable to discuss it without such open hostility?


Why can't you answer a simple question?
What was "hostile" about that post?


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> That's the way it is now. You're either with him or against him -- no middle ground. People who disagree are no longer people with a different point of view, they are the enemy.


The truth doesn't seem to matter to you. Im tired of hearing all the lies you post and not taking responsibility for the things you post that are flat out wrong. You, look at every conservative as the enemy, thats a fact. You can never, ever hold a Democrat accountable for their action, ever. Besides, you don't ever discuss things rationally. Everything is Trumps fault, or Bushes fault. You just can't see what you are. We can because we've seen it for years and years. It's to bad you see that there's no middle ground, but thats only with you, not others. Thats not the way it is now, thats the way it's always been. Remember the other day i agreed with you?
You couldn't stand it so you had to bash Trump or Bush, i dont remember which, to retaliate.
I am now seeing liberals as the enemy. They are trying to destroy America and our values. It's very clear. Liberals have said that those that don't think like them are their enemies, so there you have it.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

JeffreyD said:


> Why can't you answer a simple question?
> What was "hostile" about that post?


I did answer your question, and in the simplest possible way, so what didn't you understand about my answer?


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

todd_xxxx said:


> I did answer your question, and in the simplest possible way, so what didn't you understand about my answer?


Passive aggressive....
My apologies for not seeing your answer, maybe you missed the question.
I'll ask again..."in the simplest possible way".
What was hostile about my post?


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## Max Overhead (Feb 22, 2021)

The passports will be our social credit system, which works so effectively in China. Bunch of first world countries just essentially declared the need for world government due to the pandemic. All starting to come together now and make sense, eh? We're nearing the goal, the point of this whole psy-op we've lived through this past year. Keeping us safe was never the goal, but it's always the perfect excuse.
I won't ever submit to it.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

JeffreyD said:


> Passive aggressive....
> My apologies for not seeing your answer, maybe you missed the question.
> I'll ask again..."in the simplest possible way".
> What was hostile about my post?


I'm not being passive aggressive. You just seem to have a lot more vested in this than I do, and it seems to be affecting your ability to discuss it without anger. I don't care whether anyone gets the vaccine. I don't care about the passport. I didn't say your question to me was hostile, I said you seem to have trouble discussing this without hostility, as evidenced by your posts throughout the thread. I don't expect you to agree. 

I will admit to not agreeing with either extreme point of view. On one side, you have people equating the vaccine passport with Nazi Germany and showing your papers. I think that is overly dramatic and silly, and I think the people saying it know it is. On the other hand, you have people saying it's unpatriotic and you don't care about other people if you don't get vaccinated, and I think they are being disingenuous as well. I think that point of view is just as overly dramatic, and just as silly.

I can understand the reasons for people not getting the shot, even though I don't agree. I would just like a return to people being able to have rational discussions. Name calling and emotional tirades rarely, probably never, persuade anyone to rethink their point of view.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

I am seeing advertising on television about how to improve or repair your online reputation. 

Chinese style social credit score or vaccine passport..... the mess is already here and the many of the politicians and voters seem to think its a good idea. Sad times coming.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

It's starting to sound like the vaccine passport would be the mark of the beast. If you have to show it to go somewhere or buy something you migjt as well just have it pasted to your forehead.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> It's starting to sound like the vaccine passport would be the mark of the beast.


Maybe not that critical, but people are taking their vaccination cards very seriously. but if a vaccine passport becomes a reality in the US U kind of doubt that the CDC card will become the standard of proof. They're too easy to fake. Still, a lot of people are laminating their CDC cards.









You should think twice before laminating your vaccine card


While it may be tempting to get your vaccine card laminated as soon as possible, you should take your time and make sure you've considered a few things beforehand.




www.cnn.com


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Hmmm, starts out with cough in your arm, keep a distance now to permission slips under threat of shunning. Keep the line moving.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> Hmmm, starts out with cough in your arm, keep a distance now to permission slips under threat of shunning. Keep the line moving.


It's not personal. It's just common sense guidelines to prevent the spread of disease.

But if you;re really that concerned about "shunning" you can always get vaccinated.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Nevada said:


> It's not personal. It's just common sense guidelines to prevent the spread of disease.
> 
> But if you;re really that concerned about "shunning" you can always get vaccinated.


Or people could respect the rights of other people to make decisions about their own bodies and stop attempting to coerce, bully, browbeat or force them into doing what they are told. What part of "we don't have enough long term data on this vaccine to be comfortable injecting it" are you not getting? What part of "if I have an adverse reaction to this vaccine I have no recourse because the vaccine companies have been made immune from consequences and that makes me wary" are you not getting?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It is getting rather tiresome to hear someone compare getting "the shot" to being patriotic.
Rosie the Riveter this ain't.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Here are the cards, Print up your own and fill out what you want on it. There is no "tracking" number of id number. Its just a piece of paper.. Not going to protect you, might be illegal, but if thats what someone needs to let you in the door it should work. Or just get the shot Your choice.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Thanks Gary, I think I'll set up an Etsy Store right now and cash in.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I'm not in the age group right now that are eligible to take the vax. When the time comes that I am coerced/forced into it I'll only take the J&J, per doctors advice. I am sure that my employer will be directed to institute it. 

I've already had covid and have been tested repeatedly for antibodies, which I have after months of testing.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Maybe not that critical, but people are taking their vaccination cards very seriously. but if a vaccine passport becomes a reality in the US U kind of doubt that the CDC card will become the standard of proof. They're too easy to fake. Still, a lot of people are laminating their CDC cards.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What about folks that can't have this vaccine?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> What about folks that can't have this vaccine?


On medical advice, they should decline the vaccine.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> On medical advice, they should decline the vaccine.


What about the "passport"? Will they be exempt, or will they not be allowed the Constitutional right to travel?


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> On medical advice, they should decline the vaccine.


Are there going to be roadblocks at every state border? What about the southern border?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> What about the "passport"? Will they be exempt, or will they not be allowed the Constitutional right to travel?


No. The idea of passports is to prevent the spread of disease. If someone isn't vaccinated they can't pretend that he is.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Are there going to be roadblocks at every state border? What about the southern border?


I don't expect the government to make use of covid passports.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I don't expect the government to make use of covid passports.


For sure they won't stop those at the southern border even if they test positive. I guess the're not contagious.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> No. The idea of passports is to prevent the spread of disease. If someone isn't vaccinated they can't pretend that he is.


So, in your world, only those with papers could travel. That sounds familiar. Those with exemptions are just sol? How fair and balanced of you. Maybe it's a she.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

JeffreyD said:


> What about folks that can't have this vaccine?


Here is your self help immunity booster. Send me $35 and a pre-addressed stamped envelope and I'll print you a vaccine card out.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Max Overhead said:


> I won't ever submit to it.


Revelation 13:16-18 (ESV) Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

__





WO2020060606 CRYPTOCURRENCY SYSTEM USING BODY ACTIVITY DATA


Human body activity associated with a task provided to a user may be used in a mining process of a cryptocurrency system. A server may provide a task to a device of a user which is communicatively coupled to the server. A sensor communicatively coupled to or comprised in the device of the user...



patentscope.wipo.int






In June 2019, Microsoft Technology Licensing applied for the patent and was published in March 2020 under the number WO20200*6*0*6*0*6*A1. The said patent is for the cryptocurrency system that makes use of the body activity data.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

HDRider said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You find significance in a 14 digit number supplied by the patent office that has 3 6s in it? Odds are that has happened literally thousands of times


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

Gary in ohio said:


> Here are the cards, Print up your own and fill out what you want on it. There is no "tracking" number of id number. Its just a piece of paper.. Not going to protect you, might be illegal, but if thats what someone needs to let you in the door it should work. Or just get the shot Your choice.
> 
> View attachment 95180


yep, the "illegal" part...then they'll start imprisoning people over falsifying a fake government "record"


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

Nevada said:


> No. The idea of passports is to prevent the spread of disease. If someone isn't vaccinated they can't pretend that he is.


all kinds of diseases are spread every day everywhere


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> It's not personal. It's just common sense guidelines to prevent the spread of disease.
> 
> But if you;re really that concerned about "shunning" you can always get vaccinated.


Now I know where I have heard the tag words. From commissioned based salesmen.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Why would someone with the vaccine shot shun someone without the shot ? Seems illogical.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

This is the event that the BBC and the rest of the legacy media tried to airbrush out of history: thousands upon thousands of people marching through central London in protest over lockdown and the imminent threat of vaccine passports. 









WATCH: Many Thousands Rally In London Against Vaccine Passports


This is the event that the BBC and the rest of the legacy media tried to airbrush out of history: thousands marching against lockdown...




www.breitbart.com


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

HDRider said:


> A nationwide digital “vaccine passport" is being developed ,” The Washington Post reported.


"Papers? Vere are your PAPERS!"
Guess I'm not going traveling much....


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Fishindude said:


> Whatever happened to HIPPA laws and all of your health information remaining private?


I was informed by the HR person at work that here in Michigan (an "at will" state), I can be required to get a Covid vaccine, if the company deems it necessary.

My reply was, if that occurs, my consulting fee will be $1K/hour, including travel time, and phone consults would be at $500/hour. Considering that I know more about the past 6 (each over $500K ) installs than EVERYONE (including my boss) in the shop combined, we will see.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

todd_xxxx said:


> I'm vaccinated, not terrified of the virus, and I don't give a rat's ass if you get the shot or not.



I'm NOT vaccinated, not terrified of the virus, and don't give a rat's ass if you get the shot or not.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Riverdale said:


> I'm NOT vaccinated, not terrified of the virus, and don't give a rat's ass if you get the shot or not.


Exactly...


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

ImmunaBand, runs about $20 and stores vaccine records on it so people don’t have to haul around their vaccine cards. Once purchased, the customer sends in a copy of their vaccine card and the company loads the record to its encrypted website.

The bracelet then comes in the mail with a QR code on it. If someone wants to verify the wearer’s vaccine records, they pull out their cell phone, snap a picture of the QR code and see the record.








ImmunaBand


ImmunaBand




www.immunaband.com


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

And how much other information is connected with that QR code? One version of the band also has your name right on it.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)




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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> This is the event that the BBC and the rest of the legacy media tried to airbrush out of history: thousands upon thousands of people marching through central London in protest over lockdown and the imminent threat of vaccine passports.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Things have gotten messy in my province since the government started seizing properties and arresting of some who are refusing to to continue locking down. 

Grace Life Church has had their property seized and their pastor spend a fair amount of time in remand, the owner of a cafe and gas station had thier property seized on the weekend and the owner remains in remand at this time after a rally in his home town. The pastor featured in another thread tossing Alberta Health Services and police out of his building was arrested on the weekend and awaits sentencing in remand.

My friend has been told that if anyone catches Covid that can be traced back to his 'End Lockdowns' rodeo, he will be charged with attempted murder. 

Mosques with packed parking lots seem to have completely escaped the attention of Alberta Health Services and police.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

I still don't see the point in developing a vaccine passport system. Despite disappointing reluctance of many to get vaccinated, I'm confident that we'll get 70%+ sometime this summer. In fact I'm expecting to see vast improvements in pandemic numbers in the next few weeks. But by end of August we should be at or near heard immunity, which is only 3 1/2 months away. It will take longer than that to setup a passport system.

People who need to do international travel for work will probably suffer hardships without a passport system. Hopefully the CDC card will be enough.

I've been to Mexico several times during the pandemic but was never asked about covid testing or vaccination, either entering Mexico or reentering the US. Each time I went I was in a US motel and stayed 3 days, crossing the border each day, so I made quite a few border crossings. Never any questions about covid.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> Things have gotten messy in my province since the government started seizing properties and arresting of some who are refusing to to continue locking down.
> 
> Grace Life Church has had their property seized and their pastor spend a fair amount of time in remand, the owner of a cafe and gas station had thier property seized on the weekend and the owner remains in remand at this time after a rally in his home town. The pastor featured in another thread tossing Alberta Health Services and police out of his building was arrested on the weekend and awaits sentencing in remand.
> 
> ...


The Canadian Gestapo were smarter this time. Instead of breaking into and swarming Canadian Pastor Artur Pawlowski’s church — as they previously did during an Easter weekend service, only to be appropriately shamed and heckled out of the place — this time the Canadian Gestapo waited until after Saturday services to arrest Pawlowski, and did so on a public highway.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

wr said:


> Things have gotten messy in my province since the government started seizing properties and arresting of some who are refusing to to continue locking down.
> 
> Grace Life Church has had their property seized and their pastor spend a fair amount of time in remand, the owner of a cafe and gas station had thier property seized on the weekend and the owner remains in remand at this time after a rally in his home town. The pastor featured in another thread tossing Alberta Health Services and police out of his building was arrested on the weekend and awaits sentencing in remand.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's crazy stupid stuff going on up there. 

To my way of thinking they just need to lock up the ones that attended that rodeo. He didn't strong arm anyone that went to it. They went on their own. Maybe they need to charge them with attempted suicide instead. 

I can't believe how fanatical some have become.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> Wow, that's crazy stupid stuff going on up there.
> 
> To my way of thinking they just need to lock up the ones that attended that rodeo. He didn't strong arm anyone that went to it. They went on their own. Maybe they need to charge them with attempted suicide instead.
> 
> I can't believe how fanatical some have become.


There is a lot of people starting to push back hard. The common complaint is the lack of consistency in regulations and a lot of businesses just can't hang on any longer.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Students attending universities in New York won’t be able to continue classes unless they get vaccinated against COVID-19, the disease caused by the CCP virus.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Colleges here are requiring it too









Bates requiring COVID vaccine for fall 2021 students


Bates joins UNE, COA, and Bowdoin in requiring that fall 2021 students get the COVID-19 vaccine.




www.newscentermaine.com


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> View attachment 96816


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> View attachment 96816


unfortunately, I've been around long enough to know "they" would try and I've got plenty of popcorn for the rest of the show


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

Interestingly OSHA has put out new guidance for employers that require vaccination as a condition of employment that caused a ripple. I wonder if anything similar will be applied to Colleges?

_"If I require my employees to take the COVID-19 vaccine as a condition of their employment, are adverse reactions to the vaccine recordable?

"If you require your employees to be vaccinated as a condition of employment (i.e., for work-related reasons), then any adverse reaction to the COVID-19 vaccine is work-related. The adverse reaction is recordable if it is a new case under 29 CFR 1904.6 and meets one or more of the general recording criteria in 29 CFR 1904.7." (link)_


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MAY 9, 2021
People who have been fully vaccinated against COVID-19 are exempt from many restrictions in Germany from Sunday after the government passed new legislation to restore some freedoms.

Curfews and limits on social contacts no longer apply to those fully vaccinated—more than seven million people—or recovered from a COVID infection under the new rules.

They will also no longer have to present a negative test result to access certain services such as hairdressers and "click and meet" shopping appointments.

If returning to Germany from abroad, they will not be required to quarantine unless arriving from a country deemed high risk due to virus variants.

However, they will still be required to adhere to social distancing and hygiene measures such as wearing masks in shops and on public transport.









Fully vaccinated enjoy new freedoms in Germany


People who have been fully vaccinated against COVID-19 are exempt from many restrictions in Germany from Sunday after the government passed new legislation to restore some freedoms.




medicalxpress.com


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MAY 11, 2021 
At least half of the medical staff in hospitals has not yet been vaccinated against Covid-19, BNR reported after discussing the situation with many of the larger hospitals in the country.









Half of medical workers not yet vaccinated against Covid-19


At least half of the medical staff in hospitals has not yet been vaccinated against Covid-19, BNR reported after discussing the situation with many of the larger hospitals in the country. Despite as many as 90 percent of their employees willing to get a jab, vaccines are delivered in small...




nltimes.nl


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

HDRider said:


> Students attending universities in New York won’t be able to continue classes unless they get vaccinated against COVID-19, the disease caused by the CCP virus.


Michigan is the same. My son (20 yo) said 'Nope'.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Riverdale said:


> Michigan is the same. My son (20 yo) said 'Nope'.


Good for him.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

HDRider said:


> The Canadian Gestapo were smarter this time. Instead of breaking into and swarming Canadian Pastor Artur Pawlowski’s church — as they previously did during an Easter weekend service, only to be appropriately shamed and heckled out of the place — this time the Canadian Gestapo waited until after Saturday services to arrest Pawlowski, and did so on a public highway.
> 
> View attachment 96825


It is amazing to me, the things that some people will tolerate. If they tried that in the community where I live, they would soon run out of police officers.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> It is amazing to me, the things that some people will tolerate. If they tried that in the community where I live, they would soon run out of police officers.


Do you know what happened to muleskinner1?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

HDRider said:


> Do you know what happened to muleskinner1?


I heard he is living in a small village in Panama. And that he is doing contract "wet work" for third work dictators.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

muleskinner2 said:


> I heard he is living in a small village in Panama. And that he is doing contract "wet work" for third work dictators.


i KNOW that guy.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Worked with a State Trooper who was in his probationary period, he made a pass at a gal and was dismissed from the State Police. He got involved with a private security company and is doing very well. Much better than he would have with the State Police.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SEATTLE — With the U.S. and Washington lifting most mask mandates for those that are fully vaccinated against COVID-19, federal officials are warning that faking a vaccine card to claim immunization can carry serious consequences.
“This is actually a federal crime,” said Amy Alexander, public affairs officer for the FBI in Seattle. “It's called misuse of a government seal. And it comes with potential prison time and or fines.”

That can carry a penalty of up to five years in prison.









FBI warns of penalties for faking vaccine cards, as Washington lifts mask mandates


Carrying a fake vaccine card is a federal crime. The consequences include potential prison time or fines.




www.thv11.com


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Just a quick follow up on my friend's 'End Lockdowns' protest rodeo. AHS has tried hard to trace anything back to the event as of yesterday (19 days after the first Grand Entry), AHS has confirmed *one case *that they feel can traced back to the rodeo. Not an outbreak, no superspreader and no certainty that the rodeo caused this horrible event. 









'Directly linked': Alberta says COVID-19 infection found in attendee of Bowden rodeo


Health officials have confirmed to CTV News that a positive case of COVID-19 has been found in an individual who attended an illegal rodeo event in central Alberta at the beginning of May.



calgary.ctvnews.ca


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