# Sugar/Carb addiction



## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

After recent promotion on this forum of the "Fruity Pebbles and Kool-aid and ice cream" diet, it does bring up how addicted current generation is to sugar and processed carbs. I was never big sugar addict, always preferred my coffee black, but was a big carb addict in form of grain/potatoes. Cheap and convenient. Yes the so called healthy whole grains. But full blown diabetes forced me to radically change my diet to avoid being dependent on insulin and other diabetic drugs. Its been over three years now.

Amazing how sweet things now taste that didnt used to taste sweet at all. Pretty sure anything with sugar added would be repulsive at this point, just way too sweet. Even some raw fruits are just way too sweet for my tastes anymore. Hey the diabetes gives huge incentive to stick with diet necessary to control it. Though I know some rather take the drugs than give up their carb/sugar fix. I know few have same incentive just for weight control, I doubt I would changed my diet without the diabetes. I really missed grain in my diet there for a while but when its controlling a disease with food or drugs, I will always choose diet. Was lot easier giving up honey and other sweeteners than the starchy seeds of grass. Meaning I missed my whole wheat pancakes lot more than I did the honey I put on them.

So how many current generation shoppers are really aware how they have had ever increasing amounts sugars/starches pushed on them by food companies, just like the drug companies push opioids? All for ever more profit from an addicted customer base.

By way for those thinking all food is fuel, just wait until that unlimited fruity pebble addiction gives you the pleasure of diabetes. Even kids are getting type2 diabetes anymore because of the prevalence of high carb processed foods (unheard of when I was young) combined with much less physical activity, but it used to be considered old persons disease. So just cause you got through middle age without type2 diabetes, doesnt mean it cant still happen. And if you believe its all genetic, and yes some are obviously more genetically susceptible, then more power to you, but the shock will be that much bigger when such myths are dispelled by your own experience. Type2 is a pandemic in modern world. Not just from a few being genetically more susceptible.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Geez.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

barnbilder said:


> https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1475-2891-13-97
> https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/82/1/1/4863302
> http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/01/protein-satiety-and-body-composition/
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18469287/


The 1st study I debunked in less than 10 seconds. They claim to compare protein to fat when what they actually compared was protein to carbs and fat. No one has argued that high carbs and high fat are a good idea.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> Sugar and carbs will not make you fat. [URL='https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/82/1/1/4863302'][URL='http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/01/protein-satiety-and-body-composition/'][URL='https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18469287/'][/URL][/URL][/URL]


[URL='https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/82/1/1/4863302'][URL='http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/01/protein-satiety-and-body-composition/'][URL='https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18469287/']No,[/URL] but[/URL] both[/URL] will act as an appetite stimulant. And this is why.

I know of 2 things that will trigger your appetite. There may be more but I know of 2. One is when the cells of your body are not getting the nourishment that they need, and the other is when your blood sugar is rapidly dropping.

For most people the second reason is the most important: the rapidly dropping blood sugar.

You eat sugar and digestion of sugar starts in the mouth BEFORE you even swallow it. This results in a very rapid rise In blood sugar, especially if your stomach was empty. Insulin is therefor released so that the sugar can enter the cells of the body, and this results in a rapid drop in blood sugar because the sugar is very quickly removed from the blood. And a rapid drop in blood sugar stimulates the appetite. Therefor a person wants to eat more very soon

In a person who has a body functioning like it should, refined carbs like white bread are very quickly digested and the result on blood sugar is the same as when a person ate plain sugar, just a bit more slowly.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Even whole grains can have huge proportion of carbohydrate compared to amount fiber. Brown rice zooms my blood sugar just as bad as white despite a bit more fiber. And i swear some starches raise blood sugar faster than eating pure table sugar.

Humans just didnt evolve to eat huge amounts starch or sugar. In other words cave men didnt have fruity pebbles and rocky road ice cream. They only had real pebbles and real rocks and were smart enough not to try and eat them. This only happened when we tried to out think nature and developed agriculture and commerce. Distant ancestors were mainly limited to sugar naturally occuring in wild fruit (in season) and in occasional find of wild honey. And I suppose some starchy tubers/roots. But most wild fruit and tubers arent nearly as sugar/starch dense as modern ag raised equivalents. We have selectively bred them for high sugar/starch content and less fiber.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Test your blood sugar when you eat different things. It is enlightening what different foods do to you. I know that many here do. I do and I am not diabetic.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

anything with sugar now tastes too sweet to me also. I don't know if I was addicted to sugar but I did like my desserts. lemon rolls etc. I miss my home made bread. I can't have it around though. i could not stop at one slice. before you know it I'd have a loaf gone. 

I don't have diabetes and no one in my immediate family ever had it. my brothers 2 boys had it.one is gone just recently and the other not far off. my husband had it also. he took injections and tons of plls. I have had several friends who have lost their legs due to diabetes. I must say i feel so much better and with more energy since I've been on keto. I was never that big but I've really slimmed down also.~Georgia


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Never had much in the way of sugar when I was a kid. We ate fruit when available, more of a treat. Never developed a taste for it. When I went to college I was surprised at my friends who couldn't get by without sugary snacks, tried some of their food and dang it was so sweet it was gag worthy. So I don't have a personnal comparison, but I do know there is basically no nutrition in sugar.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I tell the truth, it gets deleted. If you are overweight, please don't get advice on this forum. There is nothing here but rabid support of bad health choices fueled by pure ignorance. You can tell them over and over and show study after study, they are missing the point. PM me, and I can tell you what causes weight gain, hunger, and etc.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

For some strange reason, an old Mac Davis song is playing thru my head.

"Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way
I can't wait to look in the mirror
Cause I get better looking each day....."


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Cabin Fever said:


> For some strange reason, an old Mac Davis song is playing thru my head.
> 
> "Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
> When you're perfect in every way
> ...


Nooo, now that song is stuck in my head!


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> I tell the truth, it gets deleted. If you are overweight, please don't get advice on this forum. There is nothing here but rabid support of bad health choices fueled by pure ignorance. You can tell them over and over and show study after study, they are missing the point. PM me, and I can tell you what causes weight gain, hunger, and etc.


Rather, if you do not adhere to the HT rules of posting, you will be deleted.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

All I know is I'm hungry now,lol


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Oregon1986 said:


> All I know is I'm hungry now,lol


Me too!!! Want fried chicken but need to check some fence and do a few repairs. Can't be in two places at once so it's chicken in the instant pot.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I love sugar, just like my caveman ancestors. It tastes good. The reason it tastes good, is because my taste buds evolved to tell me that it is great to eat. This is why poop tastes bad. My caveman ancestors didn't find sugar ever day, but when they did, they ate it until their bodies told them to quit, so they took a nap and ate some more until it was all gone. No matter if it was fruit, honey, whatever. Of course, their teeth wore down from using them as pliers and they died by thirty, if they didn't get stomped by a mastodon first. Of course, they weren't sedentary either, being sedentary is one of the things that gets us in trouble. And the sugar was just fuel to get them to the next big protein feast, glorious protein with it's fat burned away in a fire, gnawed from the bone until stomachs were distended and everyone was in a food induced coma, only to awaken to the stench of rotten meat and the buzzing of flies, sure to draw more dangerous scavengers. 

The main thing that has changed here, it's not the big corporations jamming sugar into everything, you can't get much more sugar than honey, and before people started doing migratory almond pollination, there were bees everywhere. (Heck, I knew a guy that cut down bee trees all summer when I was a kid, sold honey, never kept the first bee, there was no need for it.) The thing that has changed is that we are getting older. Interesting things happen when you get old. Your metabolism changes. For one thing, your ability to anabolize protein decreases as you age. This can lead to muscle loss, if you don't consume enough protein. Muscle burns a lot of calories, even when it is at rest. This is why, when you get older, the weight gain from Christmas cookies doesn't go away as easily when spring activity levels increase. Classic middle age weight gain. Your body will crave food when something is lacking. If you do a lot of work, you will likely get hungry. If your body isn't getting what you need, it might stay hungry, even after you have eaten enough food. If you have sugary foods and fatty foods, without much protein, lying around, it is going to be easy to get into a situation where you are consuming far too many calories to quench a hunger that is not going to go away with the foods that you are eating. Countless studies put fat and carbs almost equal in terms of hunger satisfaction, and neither is as satisfying as protein.

The trouble with protein, it's expensive, and can come bundled with fat (bacon) or carbs (beans). If you find yourself eating at a reduced calorie intake, in order to lose weight, it is very possible to have a very hard time getting enough protein to satiate the added hunger of a diet, prevent muscle loss, and possibly even add muscle (the latter helpful in increasing caloric burn rates). A lot of pre-packaged food choices are sadly lacking in protein. Sugar, since it offers very little in terms of nutrition outside of fuel, is often singled out as a culprit, but it is not so much that sugar is added, it is that protein is missing altogether. 

Sugary foods can still be consumed, by people who are not diabetic, even when dieting. Most people will find, if they are able to hit a high protein level, that they can still enjoy a small portion of their favorite sugary snack, as long as it does not drive their total caloric intake too high, or offset their caloric intake so much as to not allow the much needed protein in their diet. Most will find that if they are hitting their protein, the camping out with a bag of M&M's until the bag is empty is not an issue, like it may have been with them before. This can make a diet much easier to adhere to, especially over the long term. It is also beneficial when a dieter goes to visit family, goes out to eat, etc. You feel much more like a human being when you can partake in Junior's birthday cake, and know that it won't affect your diet goals. 

Gram for gram, sugar is less than half as calorically dense as fat, so be careful substituting fat for sugar. It is highly likely that many of the perceived benefits of a high fat diet are as a result of the added protein that some of those fats are attached to, or as a result of protein rich foods being substituted for carbs. If protein levels aren't met, satiety may suffer, and that can cause diet breakthrough, which means failure. 

I will add the disclaimer, extra protein might not be for everyone. There are medical conditions that might cause problems for someone adding protein to the diet, just as there might be problems for a diabetic person adding sugar to the diet.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I sure don't know how anyone can have a problem getting enough protein unless they are eating too many processed foods. I have to chart my foods just to make sure I don't eat to much protein because it is too easy to eat too much. Why people need to add protein whey always confused me.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

no really said:


> Me too!!! Want fried chicken but need to check some fence and do a few repairs. Can't be in two places at once so it's chicken in the instant pot.


Lol I threw spaghetti sauce in crock pot so it will be ready later when I have time


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

painterswife said:


> I sure don't know how anyone can have a problem getting enough protein unless they are eating too many processed foods. I have to chart my foods just to make sure I don't eat to much protein because it is too easy to eat too much. Why people need to add protein whey always confused me.


I don't get it either. Every meal I have either has a meat protein,egg,or bean


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

We get all, ALL, of our protein from plants, nuts, seeds, and whole grains. No problemo!


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> I sure don't know how anyone can have a problem getting enough protein unless they are eating too many processed foods. I have to chart my foods just to make sure I don't eat to much protein because it is too easy to eat too much. Why people need to add protein whey always confused me.


I do whey protein due to my workouts, sometimes it's hard to eat as much as I need.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

no really said:


> I do whey protein due to my workouts, sometimes it's hard to eat as much as I need.


My youngest daughter has to add whey protein (shakes) and protein bars because of her workouts too. 

I had the misfortune of opening one of her blender cups after it had sat in her car... Blech.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> My youngest daughter has to add whey protein (shakes) and protein bars because of her workouts too.
> 
> I had the misfortune of opening one of her blender cups after it had sat in her car... Blech.


OMG, that had to be really nasty.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

no really said:


> OMG, that had to be really nasty.


It was horrible, she laughed. Brat. 

She eats some type of protein cookie that comes in lemon that is pretty good. I can't remember the name tho. I'm not sure if she's still eating them, she has a trainer do a diet for her now.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> It was horrible, she laughed. Brat.
> 
> She eats some type of protein cookie that comes in lemon that is pretty good. I can't remember the name tho. I'm not sure if she's still eating them, she has a trainer do a diet for her now.


I started out with a sports medicine doc through the VA. Now I use a nutritionist that specializes in athletes. It is worth it!


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

I eat enough greens that the rabbits are jealous,not worried


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The USDA RDA on protein is 0.4 grams of protein per pound of body weight. Body weight is calculated as your ideal body weight for your height, if you are "in a cut" or eating at a lower than maintenance calorie level (dieting). While you can metabolize all protein consumed (burn for fuel) your ability to anabolize (build muscle with) protein decreases with age. With any degree of exercise or training, protein levels must be kept higher to ensure that there is protein present when needed for muscle growth, muscle regeneration, or to keep muscle from being depleted. Most nutritionists who deal with athletes agree that the RDA is sadly lacking for much more than a baseline for sedentary people. 0.6 grams per pound is more in line, and most will shoot for 0.8 per pound to stave off muscle depletion during a calorie reduction. 

Most body builders shoot for 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. A lot of body builders eat 1.2 grams per pound with no ill effects. Since proteins of different types have different digestion rates, timing is hard to predict. Bodybuilders and professional athletes want to make sure that there is protein present at the proper time post-workout, to build muscle, since excess will be burned as energy much the same as fats or carbs. They don't want to run into a situation that they burned off all their extra protein as energy, and don't have enough to build or repair muscle after the workout.

The jury is out on if there is such a thing as too much. The old school of thought is that too much damages organs like kidneys, but newer studies suggest that normally functioning kidneys can handle higher levels than previously thought. Damaged kidneys definitely don't handle excess protein well. 

If you follow the RDA it is pretty easy to hit 0.4 GpP. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that someone who is older, dieting, and doing any degree of exercise needs more than 0.4 GpP to build or maintain muscle, and to stave off hunger.

Personally, if I get much below 0.8 GpP of protein, I am hungry, no matter how much fat I substitute for carbs. At bulking calories, I have no problem hitting that goal. At maintenance calories it takes careful planning, but I can still get there with regular food. When I switch to cutting calories, I have to use protein supplements of one form or another. At cutting calorie levels, I would probably have breakthrough eating problems at anything below 0.6 GpP if I stayed there for very long.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

And yes, whey protein powder coffee residue smells really bad, and worse if left in the sun.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-too-much-protein-bad-for-you#section6

Here is an article that says pretty much what I said but it's not me saying it. Lots of links in there.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I went to the American Legion Hall in Blessing for supper. Catfish, stuffed crab, shrimp, baked potato with sour cream, and a Shiner Bock. 

It was great!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Thanks for starting this thread, apparently I am not getting enough protein. Might be why I get so tired and worn out easily lately. 

As for the sugar/carb addiction, I love cookies! But I know cookies have a lot of sugar. Even cereal is mostly sugar and fluff. Hidden sugars are a problem for people trying to eat better. I was reading some salad dressing labels recently and was shocked to see most contain more sugar than seasoning. Sugar in salsa and spaghetti sauce is pretty high too. Read those labels!


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

There is no such thing as hidden calories, if you track your food. If you like cookies, and want cookies, and aren't diabetic, and you hit your protein requirement for the day and still have calories left over, then you get to have a cookie.

Here is an article that I have been reading posted on one of the diet/fitness pages I follow.
http://revivestronger.com/2015/09/28/the-poor-misunderstood-carbohydrate/


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

I tried watching Carbs and Sugar. It drove me nuts. Finally I just cut what I was eating in half. Lost 11 pounds so far and still losing.

big rockpile


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

What I find amusing is that those with damaged systems bark the loudest. I hear an intense maintenance program to try and make up for lack of proper oil changes. 

A nutritionist can be a cat, literally. If you want proper advise, see a Registered Dietician.


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## ed/La (Feb 26, 2009)

I put honey on ice-cream. In coffee and several other things.Other then that I eat healthy. I also eat whey protein in smoothies. I am skinny trying to slowly gain weight.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The thing about cookies is that the portion size on the package is so misleading. Once you open that package you have about 48 hours to finish it before they become stale and yucky. Keeblers zip and stick packaging sucks! If I want cookies I much prefer to get the break and bake ones. There's only a dozen there and you can have warm oven fresh cookies for supper. Of course the home made ones are much better, but there's also more to eat. Then again, you can freeze the dough in small batches and have oven fresh cookies any time you want. 

Mmmm, peanut butter cookies.


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