# Our Great Pyranese Pups are Home!



## DenMacII (Aug 16, 2008)

We finally found two LGD pups. Pictures will follow.

The search had been on going for quite a while!. We were not looking for fancy, show quality dogs at a crazy high price; and surprisingly, ALL the pet rescue groups in our neck of the woods would not adopt known LGD's to anything resembling a working ranch - no how/no way - if they rescued them, they had to be adopted out to be indoor pets. One even had 2 year old PYR brother and sister from a working ranch and would not adopt out to another working ranch. (stopping rant now).

So we found these two adorable 14 week old pups, a brother and sister from the same litter. Their adult family members are all outdoor protection dogs.

Today was their first day on the farm. They did so good! They were mindful, very aware and alert, and seemed to bond very well with DW, 5 year old son, and me. 

We slowly introduced them to our goats and they did pretty good - curious, but not aggressive. The goats were cautious, but not freaked out.

The one area that was a little concerning was their interest in our chickens. While not constant, they would chase after them - more playful than attacking. 

How would you recommend that we teach them that they are protecting these birds - and they are not play toys or food?

Thanks as always for the great insight!!!

Dennis


----------



## RanchoMadonna (Feb 20, 2011)

Hi Dennis,
How exciting! 
I'm not an expert on this one but I do have some recent experience to share. First of all, PATIENCE and ROUTINE are the things that we have been learning with our dogs.

We have 4 dogs, all rescue in one way or another. 

Ursula, is a 6 year old GP we got from an acquaintance who got her from the state rescue. She has been responsible for us COMPLETELY re-fencing our 15 acres. She can STILL get over or dig under with amazing persistence but she is very gentle with the animals and we love her. We've come to the conclusion that she didn't really come to our place to guard anything, just to give my husband and me LOTS of time together working on our place and making the fences better for all the other dogs and critters.

Jeremiah, an almost 6 year old Kuvasz, came from a woman who had to move off of her place and heard from the Kuvasz rescue that we were looking for a dog. We were told that he had experience with livestock, and he is gentle with our geese and ducks and rabbits. He is intimidated by our cows however, and we have had to really work on breaking him of barking at them as though THEY were the threat.

Gus and Molly, Akbash litter mates came to us at 9 months via the Akbash rescue lady. They were being fostered on a sheep ranch after being rescued from a woman who "couldn't handle them," whatever that means. They are now 22 months old and we STILL don't trust them on their own on the pasture with the sheep and goats because there nave been multiple "chase" incidents which resulted in several sheep injuries. They do spend the night in the pasture, after the sheep and goats have been brought into separate pens in the barnyard, one with Ursula and one with Jere, and they are doing a great job of keeping the coyotes [we can often hear them baying from beyond our fence] and other critters from our place.

With all of our dogs, especially the pups, we have worked them on long leads so that they get brought up short if they do things we don't want them to do. We have also spent hours sitting with one or more of the dogs on our hill overlooking the area where the animals are grazing, or in one or more of the pens, and just giving them time to "get the idea" of what we want THEM to do. We also walk the perimeter of our place with all 4 dogs every morning. Gus and Molly are dragging long leashes so that we can grab or step on the leash if they decide to give chase. Fortunately it hasn't been necessary for awhile but we don't know if they will ever be trustworthy on their own with the stock.

So maybe you have been blessed by NOT being able to adopt from the rescue. 

Since your pups are very young, you need to take a lot of time to be with them and have them leashed when they are with your birds. Teach them things like: NO! SIT! COME! and go from there. I would also recommend that you read a good book on LGDs, if you haven't already. One that we found useful was, Livestock Guardians: Using Dogs, Donkeys, and Llamas to Protect Your Herd (Storey's Working Animals) by Janet Vorwald Dohner (Dec 12, 2007) 

Blessings, Caroline


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I would shy away from rescue dogs unless you could verify the reason they were there. The rescues end up as a home of last resort for many dogs that likely should have been put down. Those dogs from a working ranch left for some reason, maybe they were killing the stock they were meant to protect or they may be human aggressive too. Their policy of no ranch homes only makes they life more difficult and is ridiculous, because it might be the best home for the dogs too! 
Well you have a fresh start so make the best of it, and please share your experiences with the board!


----------



## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

Ross we seem to be clucking from the same beak alot, lol.

The world is full of unwanted dogs and pups put out by neglectful breeders, not just abandoned bad owners. I can't even go to my local shelter because my heart aches too much to see what's there. I once thought about trying to rescue LGD's myself then thought better about it - too much liability there. How could I sell pups to someone out of a dog I didn't know about and had rescued, not knowing the background....ugh. Lawsuit material...what if the dog grew up to bite people....or killed stock....I could just see it. So I won't touch rescue dogs or incorporate any in my breeding program. I have to know where they came from. 

When it comes to the serious business of keeping my goats and sheep safe I can't take chances on an 'unknown' from a pound. Not knowing the dog's background, I could never with a clear conscience sell pups from parents that were something I rescued, hence, all of my dogs come from known working and guarding stock, whether here or abroad.

Let me say, I do know of people who have success with rescue dogs. But for every one of those I also hear nightmarish tales about the others that didn't work out. I also hear about rescues who stipulate "no ranch homes" and can only scratch my head and wonder..... Its a big "IF" and a bigger "MAYBE" but if you are fortunate the genes will be in these pups to guard. I hope so.

I do wish you the best of luck and am truly excited for you.

My dogs don't guard my chickens who are securely kept in their own area however the dogs can go completely around it and so, they are always safe. My focus from day one was breeding dogs for large predator problems more along the lines of wolf, bear and lion (coyotes of course) and so I don't ever sell pups guaranteeing they'll guard birds. Big livestock, you bet. 

There are breeders who do specialize in dogs that guard fowl and I'd recommend asking them as they are the experts in that. You ever get wolf problems come see me and my giants for advice...grin......

Please post pics. I am a sucker for Pyr pups....nothing cuter!


----------



## DenMacII (Aug 16, 2008)

As promised...here's a few photos of our new pups.








A couple of happy pups always ready for action...









Briscoe looks quite majestic standing on the rocks.










Out on pasture learning the fence lines

More to come!


----------



## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

supervise, supervise, supervise! That's the best advise I can offer you. My pups are a bit older than yours, almost 6 months now. Isaac is allowed to be alone overnight with one of the sheep, a ram who will not run from him. They are great friends. I allow the rest of the flock to join them when I am home to see how things are going. Isaac wants SO badly to be with the sheep that he often trots up to them faster than he should. These sheep are not used to dogs, so they trot the other way and he follows. So to the casual observer, Isaac is chasing the sheep. but he's really not.....he is trotting WITH them not after them. It's all very calm and fairly slow. They sheep are getting better and not running as often which is a good thing. Occasionally one will turn and charge Isaac which backs him off quick. When a sheep attacks, he drops to the ground. They have never rammed him but they do put him in his place. Since pups are most playful after dark (when I am sleeping), I do lock them up at night just to prevent accidents. 

Eli is in a different pen, with chickens. For the most part, he ignores them. They can escape though, through the stock panels. that's working really well too. Eli will go out to the pasture with isaac and the sheep this weekend for a trial run. 

These dogs have all the instincts in the world to protect your sheep, but they don't know what's acceptable and what's not, because there is no adult dog there to teach them. So it's your job to supervise and correct them for a long while to come.


----------



## farmmom (Jan 4, 2009)

Very cute! I love the look of a pyr pup.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I love puppies!!!!!! Now pen them up next to your goats and only let them have goat time with you out there with them. In other words, you are now their teacher like Babrbado stated. Do not play fetch, tug a war or roll over tricks, they are not there to entertain you. You sit with them bring a chair and a book or crochet and watch them interact with the goats. Do not allow chasing or biting. When you feel you need to go away from them, place them back into their pen so thay dont have unsupervised access to the goats but they can see and smell them. One day you'll come out and all the goats will be laying around their pen....LOL

Then slowly after a couple of months, let them have alone time with the goats while you are out of site (as far as they know)..LOL but can still hear them in order to correct them.

I just got done doing this with my maremmas and it took time and patience. But it was worth every sec.

Good luck, and make it work you'll sleep better for it.


----------



## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Also, work on basic obediance now too because once they get older, it will be nearly impossible to teach them anything. Not because they are not intelligent but quite the opposite. They are VERY intelligent and think for themselves. They need to learn basic commands such as Come, Heel, and Leave it. Leash train them and teach them how to ride in a car (for future vet visits). Socialize them with people so they do not fear them. It will not make them bad guardian dogs at all, but better farm dogs. The last thing you need is a farm dog that weighs 140 pounds and wants to bite visitors. Teach them to allow you to handle their feet (for nail trims) and ears (they will need ear cleanings from time to time).


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Unless you have my boys, they are rebels and will do what they want when they want....LOL

"Come" works if it benefits them. Heel? whats that? I use "it's okay" in place of "leave it" that works when they are barking at horses, frogs and turtles.

Socialize? They know everyone in the household and their vehicles, they are not having it when meeting new people. I've tried trust me, they are bull headed.

I'm afraid that I've failed in the socializing part. Their just not having it.


----------



## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Knowing what Heel means makes it SO much easier to walk them on leash. They are taught not to pull and walk by my side. Not too much of a big deal when they were little, but I am coming to appreciate it more and more as they get bigger. I use Leave it any time they are messing with something I don't want them to bother. I use "that's enough" when I want them to stop barking. All of these commands are work in progress for them, but they are getting it. They do walk VERY nicely on a leash though. I know as they get older it will be much harder to get them to obey, but a good foundation of obediance makes things much easier. I do socialize them every change I get. We go to handling classes once a week in preparation of showing. We also go to the Farmer's market on Saturdays and to Tractor supply. Isaac will probably be trained to be a therapy dog and Eli will do better in the show ring. But both dogs are getting socialized off the farm. Isaac is much more social than Eli is.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Neither of my boys like leashes. At 8 weeks and now 10 months the more I work with them the more they fight it. I've never had a dog I could not leash train till them.
When we go to the vet, it's almost impossible to get them to load up. They think I am punishing them. When i get to the vet ziggy will semi act okay with a leash, but Boomer lays his 80 lbs down and refuses to move...I mean REFUSES!!!....LOL


----------



## DenMacII (Aug 16, 2008)

We have been keeping the pups separated, but visible, from the goats. When the pups are in during the day, the goats can walk up to their enclosure (you can see it behind Briscoe) and usually do, as do our couple of cattle from the pasture to the side. The pups will scamper towards the goats if out - and as Barbados Sheep said, the goats are not freaked out, but do trot quickly away. 

Our chickens are a different story. The flock from one coop was attacked by a stray dog a couple of months back and as soon as the pups are seen this entire flock goes into panic mode and hides. The other flock will huddle together and quietly move themselves to where they feel safe - and that's only if the pups get close to them. 

DW thinks that a week of training should have made bigger inroads by now - some training goes real well, then the next is as if they forgot everything. At 15-16 weeks, they can forget a lot in a few hours, that's what the repetition is for...

We've had folks tell us to let them enjoy all the rawhide bones they can handle, and others tell us to not let them get to the eating part, as that can impact their intestines. We do plan to convert them to a raw diet gradually. Any thoughts?


----------



## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Rawhide is very bad for dogs. They LOVE it, but it can indeed cause impactions. Raw bones are great toys though. Either beef bones from a butcher or deer bones if you can get anyone to save you some. 

When I first started working my pups with the stock, it was on a long leash. If they started moving too fast, I'd tell them "easy" and they learned that means to slow down some. Nothing about this training period is fast or easy. You just have to be patient and slow and realize that one day, you WILL have awesome protection dogs. but it will take a while. 

Fowler, when I first got these two boys at 3 months, they had not been on leashes. They were very unhappy. The first time I tried to walk Eli, he laid down and would not budge. But now they adore going for walks and they know leashes are part of that. Eli does not like riding in the car but Isaac loves it and hops right in.


----------



## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

OMG I forgot how dar n cute pups are....

HF


----------



## alpacamom (Jan 28, 2007)

They're so adorable and look like such happy pups! Good luck with them!


----------



## DenMacII (Aug 16, 2008)

Here's one more of Bella Bubbles...


----------

