# Water softener salt and septic system



## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

I've heard that the discharge from your water softener is not good for your septic system. It was suggested that you have a setup where this discharge is drained somewhere else than into your septic system. I can understand that the high salt content might not be good for the bacteria in the tank but not really sure if there is any truth to this. I've done searches and read articles on it that go both ways.

Anyone have authoritative info on this?


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## Micahn (Nov 19, 2005)

It is very bad for them as in will kill off all the good things.
I have installed a few hundred of them over the years (water softeners) and we always made what we called a dry well. dig a hole down maybe 3 feet x 3 feet. Line the sides with tar paper or something like that. Fill in the middle with cinder blocks or some sort of gravel. Top off with more tar paper or what ever you use (the tar paper or what ever will keep the dirt from filling in all the spaces between your filler) Then put your drain into it and cover back up.
You want to make it big enough to hold at least around 10 gal or more at one time.
You can also make a bigger one for your washing as bleach and soap can also hurt your septic tank but not as bad as the salt. Remember salt and bleach are more or less the same thing.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Assuming your water softener is recharging at a "normal" frequency, the amount of salt is not going to affect your septic tank. Remember, even tho there is some bacterial digestion that goes on in the tank, the purpose of the sptic tank is not to decompose organic solids. Its purpose is to allow solids to physically settle to the bottom of the tank so they are not discharged to the drainfield where they can plug the soil. In other words, your septic tank can be a "sterile" environment and it would still function as it is suppose to.


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## uncle Will in In. (May 11, 2002)

Our septic tank (1000 gallon) was installed in 1970 and has never been pumped out. We don't run any softener or gray water into it. Still working OK.


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## Micahn (Nov 19, 2005)

Cabin Fever said:


> Assuming your water softener is recharging at a "normal" frequency, the amount of salt is not going to affect your septic tank. Remember, even tho there is some bacterial digestion that goes on in the tank, the purpose of the sptic tank is not to decompose organic solids. Its purpose is to allow solids to physically settle to the bottom of the tank so they are not discharged to the drainfield where they can plug the soil. In other words, your septic tank can be a "sterile" environment and it would still function as it is suppose to.


I have no clue where people get this stuff. Without bacteria working in a septic tank it is not going to be working to well for long.
A well built system that is taken cared of by not putting things that should not be in there should never have to be pumped and will work forever trouble free.
A water softener will use many lbs of salt every time it runs. Most systems run 3 or 3 times a week depending on how hard the water is.
That could easily put 50 to 100 lbs of salt a month into your septic system. None of the bacteria that keeps things running right will live threw that.

Do a little search around online and see just how a septic system should work. You see that the solids should be broken down and pass threw the system like they should.
The septic people will tell you that you should have it pumped out once a year or so because they own and run that part of things as well. I have seen septic systems 50 years old that has never been pumped out that was still working just fine.

To let you know a little bit about myself, I was a master plumber and owned my own company until I got hurt and could no longer work. I also was a instructor at a vocational school for plumbing for many years as well as ran the whole thing for a few.
Every time I ran into a septic system that needed pumped it was because people put things like their water softener drains into it or flushed things that should not have been flushed (female things). Or it was not installed right.

The best thing anyone could do for their septic system is to buy some bacteria cakes every now and then and flush them down. You can buy them at most hardware type stores and they do a lot of good. If you use a lot of bleach around the house it would help more then any pumping out would.


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## Rocky Fields (Jan 24, 2007)

Hey.

Listen to Micahn. He's right.

You DO need the bacteria to break down the waste. Technically, salt sterilizes and kills bacteria...like a saline solution for an infection. 

RF


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

Ours(salty water runoff) just comes out a little hose and dribbles down the gravel driveway into the berry bushes(none the worse for it) the birds love it.


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## rwinsouthla (Oct 24, 2005)

First, I should say that I am a process engineer in an industrial wastewater facility that treats both high and low salinity stream, and we have excellent success doing so. Above 7% salinity, the bacteria go into protective mode and excrete a protective exopolymer that prevents them from digesting the organic material. Below 7%, they are fine. Now having said that, if you typically run 1-3% salinity, they'll be fine with fluctuating salinity levels. But, if you run say 3-4%, but hit them with some 7-10% shock loads, they'll go into protective mode by secreting the exopolymer. 

In normal streams of household waste, having 7% or less salinity would be fine if it was constant. However, since there is no way to control it at a set level, the bacteria would not be very efficient. If it was my tank, I would re-route the salty water from the tank. I just don't think the swings in salinity would give you the organic conversion that would be considered "normal" for a septic tank. Is there any way to capture the salt run off from the softener and bleed it in over several days? That would keep the salinity constant and would prevent problems.


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## fixer1958 (Dec 12, 2005)

I have a system that uses potassium instead of salt. I really don't know what the difference is. It is only used to flush the charcoal once a week.
I know it happens at 2am on saturday morning.
I have a 2000 gallon septic and everything goes into it. 
One thing I do is not to allow any paper into the toilet.
It goes into the trash. It's not as gross as it sounds.

I have been here for over 15 years and haven't had any problems. 
I do put so "cakes" or this powdered junk down the drain periodically.
I have never had it pumped.

I guess I may be in for a surprise one of these days if what I'm doing is bad.
There seems to be alot of different opinions on this subject.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

From: http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=474
The conclusions drawn from these tests is that softened water is NOT harmful to a normally operating septic system or drainage field. Obviously, this is good news to anyone who has suffered through dingy dishes or clothes, or struggled with precipitate build-up in pipes due to hard water. Homeowners can enjoy all the benefits of soft water without worrying that it will disrupt the efficiency of the household septic system.

From: http://www.caitechnologies.com/wate...ater-softener-discharge-on-septic-systems.htm
Common knowledge supports that higher levels of sodium salt can have a direct impact on bacterial life forms. For instance, most bacteria usually found in fresh water ecosystems would be unable to live in a high salinity environment like an ocean. For this reason, concern was generated that septic systems that rely so heavily on bacterial action may be effected by high concentrations of sodium.

These concerns seem to be unwarranted. First, a typical residential sized water softener discharges between 40 and 70 gallons of water per regeneration. Through much of the regeneration process, fresh water is discharged, containing no salt at all, so the total concentration of salt is very dilute. However, during some stages of regeneration, the sodium concentration can reach as high a 5,000 to 10,000 ppm for brief periods of time.

To see if this level of sodium effected microorganisms typically found in aerobic on-site septic systems, a study was performed that exposed these microbes to a worst case scenario of 10,000 ppm brine solution. The study concluded that âthere were no statistically significant differences in the metabolic activity of the microbial communityâ, and that it was âunlikely that failures in domestic water treatment system are the result of exposure to the brine from home water softeners.â (1) 

Other studies indicate that the effect of putting softened water into septic system can actually be beneficial. There is a very low amount of sodium contained in softened water. For every grain of hardness removed, approximately 8 ppm (parts per million) of sodium is added. Although some naturally occurring water sources have very high sodium levels, softened water normally has a slightly elevated sodium level vs. untreated hard water. While this concentration is normally insignificant at typical hardness levels, these higher sodium levels are more in the optimal range for septic system bacterial growth, and can promote bacterial development.(2,7)

From: http://www.lenntech.com/water-softener-FAQ.htm
7.1 Can brine from softeners damage a septic tank?
The Water Quality Association has performed studies on this subject. These studies have indicated that a properly placed septic tank that works adequately cannot be damaged by brine that is discharged from a water softener. And softened water can sometimes even help reduce the amount of detergents discharged into a septic tank.

From: http://outreach.missouri.edu/webster/ag-edge/waste-home/watersoft.html
There are three main questions. 
1. Is the softener's salt brine toxic to the septic tank's bacteria? 
2. Does the liquid flow rate produced during the softener's regeneration cycle upset the septic tank digestion process and carry over solids into the absorption field? 
3. Will the sodium in the brine cause some soils to swell and reduce the water percolation rate through the soil? 
Studies by the University of Wisconsin (UW) and the National Sanitation Foundation (NSF) provide some good news. The answers are (1) no, (2) no, and (3) no.

UW and the NSF found that the increased sodium in the softened water was actually helpful to the bacterial organisms in the septic tank, and did not hurt the soil's ability to absorb water in a normal absorption field. The volume of softener backwash during regeneration was easily within the limits of what the septic tank could handle. An automatic washer would pose a greater threat to the septic tank than a water softener. The calcium-rich backwash acted similar to gypsum, which is a high-calcium mineral long used to increase the porosity of clay soils.

Keep in mind that an undersized septic tank and/or excessive use of drain cleaners or household antiseptic products are more likely to disrupt the normal operation of a septic tank/absorption field.

From: http://www.culliganlaredo.com/septic_tanks.htm
First, it was important to study the effect of dissolved salts in softener regeneration effluents on biological action in septic tank systems. These studies demonstrated that regeneration effluent from water softeners had no deleterious effect on the biological action in a septic tank and that the regeneration waste effluents may actually stimulate biological action. 

Second, it was felt important to assess the hydraulic effect of the volume of water softener wastewater. These studies demonstrated that the volume of recharge effluent from a water softener is less than that of present day automatic clothes washers. The amount of waste effluent developed by a typical household water softener during regeneration is about 50 gallons. This effluent contains calcium, magnesium, and sodium chlorides. The frequency of regeneration is dependent on water hardness, water usage, and regeneration salt dosage. 

Third, the last area of study concerned the effect of softener effluents on soil percolation in septic system drain fields. This portion of the study is important since much of the literature on irrigation contains references to the adverse effects of high sodium water on soil structure and permeability, particularly in clay-type soils. The study concluded that there was an important difference between water softener effluents and sodium effluents, which has an important bearing on soil percolation and permeability. 

The important difference is that water softener effluents contain significant amounts of calcium and magnesium and therefore are not really sodium effluents alone. Calcium and magnesium counteract the effect of sodium and help maintain and sustain soil permeability, even in susceptible clay-type soils. Thus, it appears that water softener recharge effluent brine will not affect biological digestion, hydraulic load, or leach field permeability in a septic tank system. However, if the leach field is composed of swelling clays, permeability will be reduced regardless of the presence of water softener effluent. Moreover, calcium and magnesium contained in regeneration effluents actually increased soil permeability. 

Salts in the waste effluent from recharge of water softeners created no hydraulic conductivity or percolation problems in a properly designed septic tank seepage field. In fact, it was found that soil percolation was increased by water softener regeneration effluents, as compared to soil receiving household sewage effluents without the addition of effluents from the regeneration of water softeners. In other words, lower hydraulic conductivity (HC) might result if regeneration or recharge wastes from water softeners were not allowed to enter the septic tank seepage field. In this case, the beneficial effects of calcium and magnesium would be lost. This would occur if the regeneration wastes were not discharged to the septic system, but to a dry well, roadside ditch, or other point. 

One study was conducted by soil scientists at the University of Wisconsin and dealt solely with anaerobic septic tank systems. The other study, conducted by the National Sanitation Foundation, dealt solely with aerobic septic tank systems. 

Conclusions reached in this study were as follows: 
Water softener regeneration wastes demonstrated no adverse effects on home aerobic wastewater treatment plant performance, even when stressed by loading at a use rate simulating ten persons (twice the average use rate). There was no difference in performance between days in which the plant received regeneration wastes and days in which it did not.


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## fixer1958 (Dec 12, 2005)

I think that was the same speel the saleman gave me.
I know my eyes glazed over during the pitch, so DW said.
I bought it anyway and don't regret it.


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## ColumbiaSC. (Nov 25, 2005)

UHHH that like alot of words or something, I just poo alot so we are not without bacteria and stuff, poo is sometimes a good thing!~
Never poured any rid-ex or the likes down there either. This is the 3rd year now (new system), but we are thinking about getting it pumped out just to 'er on the side of caution. 
We also have a Water Boss system (water softener that I drain into the septic tank) nice unit by the way.
1,000 gal. septic tank, 2 adults and 2 small depositers into the septic 'tank and trust' bank of SW, MISSOURI.


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## Rocky Fields (Jan 24, 2007)

Hey.

I don't think a study done by Culligan is an unbiased source. That's like asking the tobacco companies if cigarettes are safe.

What does the 5,000-10,000 ppm translate to in percentages of salinity for the mean average of the 40 gallon to 70 gallon regeneration? How many grams of salt would that be during each regeneration? I also didn't see anything in regards to bacteria density. You need to be more explicit.

As for the WI study, it may have been skewed by the excessively high ppm of cheese waste.

RF


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Rocky, I just posted the first four of hundreds of websites that said the same thing. Many of the websites were from state agencies and universites. Of course, you know better.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

And as many years now water softeners have been in use you sure would think people would have complained by now that their septic system is going funky, But I don't see any sites even talking about septic systems that have been ruined by using water softeners, And surely in this length of time IF Softeners Were Damaging Septic systems there would be tons of them by now.


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## mike3367 (Dec 15, 2004)

why worry about it, just pump out the solids once every 2 years and dont wory about it much easier than just letting is set there waiting for bad things to happen. around here is cost me 130 bucks to pump it so it so much cheaper to do that then wait for it to go bad


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## Micahn (Nov 19, 2005)

I think some are missing the main point. A health septic system never needs pumping. If your having to pump it every 2 or 3 years then your system has problems.
Like I said above a easy way to help the systen is putting water softener drains into a dry well. Just about anyone could build one in a hour or so with a little work and it will save you a lot in the long run. The cost of one pumping out would pay the cost of building 10 dry wells.


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## Rocky Fields (Jan 24, 2007)

Hey.

"The first action salt has on a septic system is on the performance of a leach field. If the salt solution gets intothe leachate, it kills the bacteria in the leach field and eliminates the accumulation of bacterial slimes, and thisallows the leach field to work better. However, the leachate then is more polluting because it containsuntreated sewage with dead bacteria in it, an effect of the salt in the septic tank. Although the leach field will not fail as quickly, the system as a whole is working poorly and will need to be pumped often in order tofunction well. This regular addition of salt will have this effect continuously over the life of the septic system."

Taken from a University of Alaska-Fairbanks pdf.

source: http://www.uaf.edu/coop-ext/faculty/seifert/pdf_nuaf/septicsys.pdf


RF


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

Seems there is strong opinion on both sides of this issue. That is what I got out of my internet searches too. So regardless of which one is right or wrong, sounds like the safest way is to dump it into its own dry well. I agree, it should be simple to do. Where I live, though, that will not pass code and this is new construction so they are all over me with doing things to code. What I have to fugure out now is how to first plumb it so that it will drain into the septic so it will pass inspection but at the same time make sure the plumbing is in such a way that after inspections are over and I don't have to answer to them, I can quickly and easily change it over to draining otherwise. Not a big deal just requires some ingenuity.

Thanks *ALL* for the input. And Cabin, thanks for your involvement. I was hoping you would jump on this thread when I posted it as I consider you our resident expert in this area.

Robert


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## rwinsouthla (Oct 24, 2005)

Cabin Fever, I stand corrected. I just read the sites. It DOES look like it'll be okay.


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## Cloverbud (Sep 4, 2006)

logbuilder said:


> What I have to fugure out now is how to first plumb it so that it will drain into the septic so it will pass inspection but at the same time make sure the plumbing is in such a way that after inspections are over and I don't have to answer to them, I can quickly and easily change it over to draining otherwise.


Drainfield behind the house, connected to house by pvc pipe through a basement window. Bathtub, washer, softener emptied into pvc pipe via garden hoses. Sometimes we had to thaw it out right at the window w/ a blow dryer. Still had to have the septic pumped regularly, though. YMMV.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

rwinsouthla said:


> Cabin Fever, I stand corrected. I just read the sites. It DOES look like it'll be okay.


Rwinsouthla, I believe what you stated is correct. The thing of it is, the salinity produced from a single recharge of a water softener is not all that high. Let's say a typical recharge cycle uses 5 pounds of salt. And, let's say a typical septic tank contains 1000 gallons of liquid. The salinity created by adding 5 pounds of salt to 1000 gallons of water is about 600 mg/l (parts per million) or 0.06%, much less than the 7% you quoted. In layman's terms, the amount of salt added to the septic tank during one recharge cycle is equivalent to one-tenth of a teaspoon of table salt per quart of water....hardly enough to have any biocidal effects. By the time the next recharge cycle takes place, the salt from the last cycle would be flushed through the septic tank. Consequently, the septic tank's salinity would not increase with each recharge cycle of the water softener.


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

Cabin Fever said:


> Assuming your water softener is recharging at a "normal" frequency, the amount of salt is not going to affect your septic tank. Remember, even tho there is some bacterial digestion that goes on in the tank, the purpose of the sptic tank is not to decompose organic solids. Its purpose is to allow solids to physically settle to the bottom of the tank so they are not discharged to the drainfield where they can plug the soil. In other words, your septic tank can be a "sterile" environment and it would still function as it is suppose to.


thats good to know Cabin. My mother has used lots of bleach for cleaning over the years, and I always thought it would kill the decomposition, and ruin their sytem. Im glad to hear this info from you.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

If a healthy system never needs to be pumped, then why did the State of WI make in manditory that all systems be pumped out every three years?

And they get nasty with you if you don't too . . .


Yea, I know, don't expect common sense from government. 

Cathy


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Macybaby said:


> If a healthy system never needs to be pumped....


This is a fallacy.


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## valerie1 (Jan 13, 2016)

logbuilder said:


> I've heard that the discharge from your water softener is not good for your septic system. It was suggested that you have a setup where this discharge is drained somewhere else than into your septic system. I can understand that the high salt content might not be good for the bacteria in the tank but not really sure if there is any truth to this. I've done searches and read articles on it that go both ways.
> 
> Anyone have authoritative info on this?


Hey logbuilder 

The discharge from your water softener does not damage septic system instead ,the waste improves the soil percolation .Septic tank effluents containing water softener effluents include significant amounts of calcium and magnesium, which counteract the effect of sodium and help maintain soil permeability.If you feel like knowing more about the softeners and keen to know their pros and cons you could visit http://www.top5watersofteners.com/ ,this site provided me the information which helped me a lot to maintain softeners.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

valerie1 said:


> Hey logbuilder
> 
> The discharge from your water softener does not damage septic system instead ,the waste improves the soil percolation .Septic tank effluents containing water softener effluents include significant amounts of calcium and magnesium, which counteract the effect of sodium and help maintain soil permeability.If you feel like knowing more about the softeners and keen to know their pros and cons you could visit http://www.top5watersofteners.com/ ,this site provided me the information which helped me a lot to maintain softeners.



That post is 9 years old ~!


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## JoePa (Mar 14, 2013)

Here's an old-timers advise - get the tank periodically pumped out - sure you may not have any problems for a long time but eventually you could - and if that happens you may find that your drain field is no good anymore and your going to pay to get a new one put in - and sometimes that may not be so easy - I've seen tanks that were not ever pumped and then when it had to be done the tank was filled to the top with solid waste with some running into the drain field - the service man had a hard time even pumping it out - had to keep adding water - so be safe - get it pumped every 3 or 4 years -


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## OH Boy (Dec 22, 2010)

I would never allow laundry water containing bleach to go into my septic system. That is one sure way to shut down the bacterial digestive action in the whole system. It will result in a LOT more sludge buildup in the tank, requiring much more frequent pump-outs. 

I don't think the water softener salt will have as much of an effect, BUT (depending on your particular system) the additional water going into the tank can be excessive, potentially flushing suspended solid matter into the leach field before it has been fully digested. Which in turn can plug the leach field up prematurely. Best practice is to route as much of the 'gray' water to another place as possible and save the septic tank for the really significant 'black' waste water.


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

arabian knight said:


> That post is 9 years old ~!


In that case I am going to ask the OP ... how is your septic working out?


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## chestnut (Sep 9, 2008)

I was told not to run the softener water into septic because the salt corroded the pump and shortened the life of it.


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## bja105 (Aug 25, 2009)

Are there any opinions on an iron removal system's effect on a septic system?


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I had two iron removal tanks on my system and had it for many yeas and never had any problems with the septic system. Even when the system was using and flushing with Potassium Permanganate.


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## JoePa (Mar 14, 2013)

The worst thing for a septic tank is - grease - I always wipe pots and dishes with a paper towel before wa shing so that no grease goes into the septic tank - the grease will coat the drain field and it won't work anymore -


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## flewism (Apr 2, 2007)

I'm no expert at all on septic or softeners, but I own them and family has them and my softener back flushes into the sump pump basin in the basement.


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## valerie1 (Jan 13, 2016)

arabian knight said:


> That post is 9 years old ~!


Hey arabian 

oops ,I did not notice the date of the post.I am extremely Sorry .


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