# Mining for Cybercurrency



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Back in January I decided to try data mining. I wasn't interested in getting in big time, but wanted to learn about it. I bought a suitable desktop computer case with a compatible motherboard ($50) and bought one graphics adapter ($170)that could mine ethereum at 20MH/sec. I joined a mining pool and let it run.

My first month I mined just over 2 ethereum/month. But ethereum was trading at about $10 back then. Backing out power I could keep about $10/month, while backing out $12/month for electricity. Then to expand the mining rig I bought a second graphics adapter in February, allowing me to mine about 4 ethereum/month, which brought my take at $20/month.

Then ethereum started taking off in price, going up to about $230 today. Competition became fierce. Today I mine less than 1 ethereum per month, since difficulty from competition is nearly 5 time what it was 6 months ago. Here is a summary of my expectation right now (from the mining pool website).










At my current hashrate, network difficulty, and ethereum price I'm mining 0.82 ethereum/month worth about $190, so I get to keep about $165 after electricity.

Expanding the mining rig is expensive now. Those graphics adapters that I paid $170 for are selling for over $300 now. Supply & demand I suppose. I've even considered selling them off, but I think I'll just see how mining goes for the time being.

I've enjoyed learning about data mining over the past 6 months. I didn't expect it to become as profitable as it has.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

What are you talking about ??


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> What are you talking about ??


Cryptocurrency, such as like Bitcoin, can be "mined" for profit. To be fair, I didn't understand it either. What were people mining for, and why would anyone pay them to do it? But the truth is that data mining is a security measure that gives value to cryptocurrency.

Mining Bitcoin is out of the question unless your power is very cheap. Ethereum is al alternative cryptocurrency that can be mined with a much smaller investment in equipment, and is profitable with common retail prices for electricity.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

How do you get the money and from who?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> How do you get the money and from who?


As mining progresses cybercurrency is created. In the case of ethereum it's created in "blocks" that miners can win. There is a block every 12 seconds which pays 5 ethereum, plus transaction fees. Today winning a block will bring you about $1200, but network difficulty makes blocks hard to win. For my small 2-card rig it could take a year or more to win a block.

That's why I joined a mining pool. With a mining pool I get paid regularly, and I get paid in ethereum by the pool administrator. The table that I posted in my first message shows what I can expect right now. I have my payout threshold set at 0.2 ethereum, so right now I get about $42 (0.2 eth) every 5 or 6 days.

After getting paid in ethereum I transfer the balance out of my mining account and into my regular coinbase.com account. In coinbase I can collect ethereum, but or sell ethereum, or transfer it to another account. When ethereum is sold there will be a USD balance, which can be transferred to my bank.

Right now there's about a 2 week wait to buy ethereum on the open market. I have a friend who is investing in ethereum and buys my ether as fast as I mine it. So I transfer it to his coinbase account and he pays me through paypal.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Thanks, it is an interesting subject.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Thanks, it is an interesting subject.


As I said, it was a total fluke that it became profitable. I just wanted to learn about it, and there is a lot to learn.

But now I have a computer case in the corner of my room that mines day & night. I'm not getting rich, but it's wine money.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Wine money!! Dang, I wish I didn't have data restrictions.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Wine money!! Dang, I wish I didn't have data restrictions.


The actual act of mining doesn't use much bandwidth. My two cards use about 3K/s, which is practically nothing.

But to start mining you have to download the blockchain database, which is about 3GB. Once you have the entire blockchain in your mining computer you won't need much bandwidth.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I have a 15 GB monthly data limit and the connection is pretty slow. Bogs down repeatedly, can barely watch youtube.  But according to my satellite internet provider it is working great.


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## Ellendra (Jul 31, 2013)

Out of curiosity, which mining software do you use? And which pool did you join?

I did some checking, and my gaming computer already has one of the graphics cards that's recommended. I could definitely use a little extra income this time of year, but I couldn't make heads or tails out of most of the mining websites I found. I was able to find a bitcoin miner that was easy enough to install, but if my calculations are right it would only bring in around $23 a month at the rate it's working.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Ellendra said:


> Out of curiosity, which mining software do you use? And which pool did you join?


First, create a cryptocurrency wallet at coinbase.com. It's free. You'll need to verify your bank account to get full use. It's similar to verifying a paypal account (they make two small deposits, and you tell them the exact amounts).

Second, setup Geth according to Part 1 of these instructions. Skip Part 2 because you'll do pool mining.

https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/guides/how-to-mine-ethereum/

You'll need a SSD drive. Hard drive is too slow. I'm not sure why but I tried it both ways and only SSDs work fast enough to get the blockchain database. Don't try mining until the blockchain finishes. It's a little over 3GB now. It may take overnight to get it all.

To get the pool miner, go to this domain.

https://ethermine.org/

Click on the Pools drop-down menu and select ETH. Software and instructions are on that page. I use the Genoils miner for Windows from this download page.

https://github.com/Genoil/cpp-ethereum/tree/master/releases

To mine, you'll run both Geth and the pool miner.

Transferring your mining profits to your coinbase account takes a little code. When you get to that I can give you the commands that you can copy & paste into the command line to make it easier.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

After reading the first 12 posts in this thread, I still have no clue how you mine something that only exists in cyberspace -- seem like hunting snipe to me.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

mnn2501 said:


> After reading the first 12 posts in this thread, I still have no clue how you mine something that only exists in cyberspace -- seem like hunting snipe to me.


I was sort of lost on that at first too. It turns out that it's reasonable. It all stems from the fact that there's no central banking authority for cybercurrency.

The actual act of "mining" is competition to get paid for processing pending transactions, or "blocks." So if a miner wins a block he will get the transaction fees associated with the transactions, plus 5 ethereum. An ethereum block reward totals about $1200 right now. A block is awarded every 12 seconds, and it goes on 24/7.

In the meantime a lot of worthless transactions occur as miners compete. They calculate trillions of dummy transactions, called hashes, each second. My rig can do 40 million hashes per second. But the thing is that the trillions of dummy hashes look the same as the hash that won the block, making it virtually impossible to hack the system. You never know when or where the next block will be won, so with trillions of hashes being processed each second from miners all over the world, the ethereum system is very secure.

You could say that ethereum blocks are being awarded to provide an incentive for miners to keep the system secure.


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## Ellendra (Jul 31, 2013)

I tried several times to follow the Genoil directions, but never did get it to work. I think I might have been overcomplicating things. 

I followed a tip that kept showing up on several mining forums and how-tos, and downloaded Minergate. It started working right away, no coding or .bat file configuring needed. When there's enough to withdraw, I'll find out if it does what it says it's doing.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Assuming that you have installed the driver for the graphics adapter, make sure that it's compatible with mining. Usually that's a card with 2GB or more of video memory. It won't work with less. Mining works best with 4GB video memory.

Are you getting some kind of error when you open geth? What is the command string that you use to launch geth? I'm using:

"C:\Program Files\Geth\geth.exe" --rpc --fast --cache=1024

What version of Windows are you using?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

What is the contents of the .bat file you created for genoil?


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Oh know! Maybe I shouldn't have just recycled my 10 year old desktop. I thought about setting this up when it was first coming out, but I didn't have the time to figure it all out.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Heritagefarm said:


> Oh know! Maybe I shouldn't have just recycled my 10 year old desktop. I thought about setting this up when it was first coming out, but I didn't have the time to figure it all out.


Admittedly, it's been a journey for me. I'm using an older desktop computer for mining, could be as old as 10 years (Core 2 Duo processor). But it's the graphics adapters that are expensive.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Nevada said:


> Admittedly, it's been a journey for me. I'm using an older desktop computer for mining, could be as old as 10 years (Core 2 Duo processor). But it's the graphics adapters that are expensive.


Why do you need a graphics adapter ti mine? I thought it was all processor and hard drive stuff.


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## DoubleAcre (Dec 15, 2014)

The GPU on the high end graphic adapters are the most capable of handling the algorithms of mining this type of alt-coin. Bitcoin used to be mined with CPU's then they found GPUs to be faster then they created ASIC processors spifiicly for mining btc. Today some coins can't be mined with ASIC chips so it's back to GPU mining. 

Wish I still had my 28 280x's.


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## DoubleAcre (Dec 15, 2014)

Found a photo of our old mining "farm"


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Heritagefarm said:


> Why do you need a graphics adapter ti mine? I thought it was all processor and hard drive stuff.


With Ethereum and most cryptocurrency it's done with high end graphic adapters. Typically, they hang 6 of them on a single motherboard. I use only 2.

The cards I use have the Radeon RX 470 chip. The RX 480 is a little faster.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

DoubleAcre said:


> Found a photo of our old mining "farm"


Nice. Not much to show on mine.


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## ed/La (Feb 26, 2009)

Check these guys out. Appear to be pros


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

ed/La said:


> Check these guys out. Appear to be pros


I've seen youtube clips of big-time miners, who run maybe 6 or 8 rigs with six cards each. The problem with doing that is each rig draws maybe 1,000 watts. To avoid throwing breakers they place them in various rooms around the house, so each rig is on a different breaker.

My problem is heat. I spend a lot of money staying cool in the summer, so since my rig draws maybe 400 watts I don't want to pay to transfer 400 watts of extra heat outside. So my rig is in a place that isn't air conditioned at all. But I'm not sure doing that is worthwhile. This spring when the rig ran cool I was mining at about 40MH/s, but running hot it only mines at about 35MH/s. As expensive as Ethereum is right now it might actually be more profitable to mine at 40MH/s and pay to cool it.

I'm doing really well right now for a guy with just two cards. My rig has averaged 37MH/s over the past 24 hours. Here's the estimated pay table.










Gross take will be $230 this month if nothing changes. Backing out $25 for power I'll keep $205.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Ellendra said:


> I tried several times to follow the Genoil directions, but never did get it to work.


I've done some additional work on setting up a mining rig for a neighbor, so I'm able to simplify the procedure considerably. You also won't need to use a SSD (hard drive will work fine) and you won't need to download the blockchain data.

My instructions with Geth were unnecessary. It's necessary for solo mining, but not for pool mining. With poll mining you can use the coinbase account that you already created because mining through a pool is much more secure than solo mining.

1. Create an account at coinbase.com. After logging in to your coinbase.com account, click on accounts and then to the right of ethereum click on "get ethereum address." That long address will be used in the mining setup later.
2. On a Windows computer, install a graphics adapter with at least 2GB memory. 4GB will work better.
3. Install the driver software for your graphics adapter.
4. Download the pool mining software for Ethereum from this link.
https://github.com/Genoil/cpp-ethereum/blob/master/releases/ethminer-0.9.41-genoil-1.1.7.zip
5. Create a new folder in your system for the pool mining application, and then expand the zip file into that folder.
6. Using Notepad, create a new file in the pool mining application folder called ethermine-pool.bat
7. Paste the following code into the new file you just created.

setx GPU_FORCE_64BIT_PTR 0
setx GPU_MAX_HEAP_SIZE 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_SINGLE_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
ethminer.exe --farm-recheck 200 -G -S us2.ethermine.org:4444 -FS us2.ethermine.org:14444 -O <Your_Ethereum_Address>.rig1

In place of <Your_Ethereum_Address> enter your coinbase ethereum address from step 1. Save the file. It might be helpful at this point to right-click on the ethermine-pool.bat file and create a shortcut on the desktop. You will launch the pool mining software by executing the ethermine-pool.bat file.

If the pool mining application finds a compatible graphics adapter and an Internet connection then it should start mining when you run ethermine-pool.bat. If the Window opens and then closes right away run that same file using the Command Prompt to see which error it reports when it closes.

To monitor your mining progress, go to the following URL but substituting your ethereum address in place of <Your_Ethereum_Address>.

https://ethermine.org/miners/<Your_Ethereum_Address>

You'll want to bookmark that URL to make it easy to get to. For just one graphics adapter you'll want to lower the payout threshold to 0.1 or 0.05 ethereum. You'll find that in Settings at that link.


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

I've heard it really sucks electric to be profitable. It is all a little bizarre to me but "mining" is basically a network in which you are being the bank's computer for them.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Declan said:


> I've heard it really sucks electric to be profitable.


That's been true for Bitcoin, but not for ethereum. Power costs about $12/mo for each graphics adapter, so I'm paying right around $25/mo for two adapters + a computer. But the gross take right now is about $225. I get to keep $200.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I hear the Russians are getting into Ethereum.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...reum-founder-create-national-virtual-currency


> *Putin Meets With Ethereum Founder To Create National Virtual Currency*
> ZeroHedge
> by Tyler Durden
> Jun 12, 2017 7:10 PM
> ...


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I hear the Russians are getting into Ethereum.


Seems that way. The mining pool that I belong to is huge, accounting for about 25% of all ethereum mining (total network in 40 TH/s, but my pool is about 10 TH/s.

Note in the chart at the link below that Europe mines about 6 TH/s, while US east is about 1.2 TH/s and US west is about 0.6 TH/s. Somebody over there is mining wholesale.

https://ethermine.org/stats


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## Yellowsnow (May 11, 2016)

Stop buying up all the AMD cards. I really want to build a new pc and can't find an RX 580 anywhere.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Yellowsnow said:


> Stop buying up all the AMD cards. I really want to build a new pc and can't find an RX 580 anywhere.


It's high demand hardware. I bought two RX 470 adapters in January & February for $170 each. Those adapters are over $300 each now.

As I said earlier, mining difficulty (competition) is about 6 times harder now that it was when I started 6 months ago. When I started I could mine 3 to 4 Ethereum/month with two adapters. Today I'm only mining about 0.6 Ethereum/month with the same equipment. But the kicker is that I'm making a lot more money than I was back then. When I started Ether was trading at $10 to $12, but today it's about $400.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

G


Heritagefarm said:


> Why do you need a graphics adapter ti mine? I thought it was all processor and hard drive stuff.


Graphics processors are just very, very fast but 'single minded' processor chips. They only do one thing they are not very versitle, but they are also very fast. For the task of 'mining' they do the job way much better than a general computer processor. Instead of processing graphics, they are told to process the mining data. That are not handling graphics at all, even tho thry are 'graphics cards'.

My take on the virtual mined money is that it is a pyramid scheme, but generally all of business and currency technically is also so that is not a kiss of death? Just - that is what it ends up being.

I believe they are set up so that difficult math problems have to be turned in for homework, and as you turn in answers you get rewarded with electronic currency.

As time passes, the math questions get harder, and or less currency is earned per answer.

This is the 'pyramid' of it.

Or perhaps a treasure hunt?

It is structured so that it is easy to get in at first but it doesn't pay much. As time passes there is less and less being paid out, which makes the currency worth more and more. Early on any old computer can churn out enough answers to earn a little bit. After a few years, the answers become so difficult (time consuming) that even a mega high dollar speed machine won't come up with an answer in a week.


There is some good aspects to how this is set up, it is well thought out.

There is scary stuff too, as it is unregulated and not backed by any government. Clearly any place there is money, there are theives and scammers. Unregulated and no got oversight, how is your currency protected, what happens in whomever is in charge decides to pull the plug on the 'bank' computer some day and go home? Again, there is a lot of thought into these issues, but they are still real questions?

If you look at the pyramid aspect of these electronic currencies, it would appear the growth and excitement of them is in the early days, when it's easy to get into and they are gathering quickly. This will lead to many copy cat currencies forming, and trying to catch on and get popular.

In other words, we will be flooded soon with many many different cyber currencies. Not all will be well run, or secure. In fact, many new ones will end up being scams.

Which will shake the faith in the whole concept, and even the real ones will hit a drastic dip in value.

At some point they could be shunned, or regulated out of existence by the governments and bodies that run the Internet. This would be doff icily, but possible. What happens if you have lots of value sitting in one, and your country eliminates it? One reason that governments really hate these is they are like Swiss bank accounts used to be - anonymous and unregulated and untaxed. A great place to hid mafia or drug or cyber attack or terrorist money. So government have a lot of incentive to break this activity down, stop it.

It is a very interesting thing to watch, how money is created with the honesty of math, and where it gets stored and and how you access it and who is running the backbone of it, which groups are for and against the whole idea. very interesting social examination.

The future on this will be wild. I read the other day the first few bitcoins mined were used to buy a pizza I think it was, and today would be worth 2.3 million usa$? That will make many others want to try new ones, and hope to get that kind of growth on the new currencies. But as always, only the first working one will get those returns, copy cats will be much lower in growth and value as the market gets saturated.

Another interesting thought, a lot of in touch with nature, tree hugger types also are mining for cyber currency. And actually, one is burning a lot of electricity just to do math problems that don't have real value, just create an artificial currency. There is some humor in the two sides of that.....it puts different groups of people into odd points of view for what they normally champion.

Paul


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Nevada said:


> It's high demand hardware. I bought two RX 470 adapters in January & February for $170 each. Those adapters are over $300 each now.
> 
> As I said earlier, mining difficulty (competition) is about 6 times harder now that it was when I started 6 months ago. When I started I could mine 3 to 4 Ethereum/month with two adapters. Today I'm only mining about 0.6 Ethereum/month with the same equipment. But the kicker is that I'm making a lot more money than I was back then. When I started Ether was trading at $10 to $12, but today it's about $400.


My other reply was probably too long.

Mining for currency requires ever faster math calculations. Graphics cards are very specialized processors that do this better than any other processor, so that is why you need them, and can use a rather old slow main processor computer - the main processor has very little to do, just support the graphics cards. The mining software programs the graphics processors into figuring out the tough math problems single mindedly.

The pyramid structure of these cyber currencies says doing the math and finding answers to the problems will get ever harder, resulting in less and less new currency being generated as time goes on. This provides a rapid growth of coins at first, and then The supply tightens up as time passes. It will be interesting what happens to the different coins when they get to the peak, of very little to no new mining, their value will then have to rely upon people believing they have a value, not in the change of supply. It will be a come to Jesus event to see what their future will be, if they hold value, gain value, or drop value when the mining phase essentially ends.

Paul


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

rambler said:


> the main processor has very little to do, just support the graphics cards.


That's why I tried mining with a Core 2 Duo processor machine. I bought the computer at eBay for $50 (delivered price) and it supports two graphics adapters, so the peripheral equipment investment is only about $25 per adapter. You can't really beat that.

Ethereum mining with two cards doesn't put much load on the system at all. Internet usage floats around 3 k/sec, which even dialup Internet service would be plenty (but I have DSL, of course). It also uses less than 2 GB memory, and and only about 3% if the C2D processor is being used.

Running Windows 7 64-bit, mining using ethminer-0.9.41-genoil-1.1.7 on the USA West network. Mining with two Radeon RX 470 adapters (one Sapphire and one MSI).

I don't have a monitor or keyboard on the mining computer. I administrate it from my laptop using Windows Remote Desktop. In fact the image below is a screen capture of a Remote Desktop session.


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## Ellendra (Jul 31, 2013)

Sorry for not replying sooner!



Nevada said:


> What is the contents of the .bat file you created for genoil?


I never actually figured out how to get to a .bat file. And the errors I got before that step kept changing every time.

I'm definitely more of a hardware person. Command line is complete gibberish to me. I can retype things, but half the time not sure if I'm even following instructions for the right operating system.

Minergate seems to be working, though. Click a button and it goes.


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## Ellendra (Jul 31, 2013)

I


Nevada said:


> I've done some additional work on setting up a mining rig for a neighbor, so I'm able to simplify the procedure considerably. You also won't need to use a SSD (hard drive will work fine) and you won't need to download the blockchain data.
> 
> My instructions with Geth were unnecessary. It's necessary for solo mining, but not for pool mining. With poll mining you can use the coinbase account that you already created because mining through a pool is much more secure than solo mining.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'll keep those instructions handy.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Ellendra said:


> Thanks, I'll keep those instructions handy.


There are also a few other things that you'll want to do, mostly to deal with a power failure when you aren't around. If that happens you'll want the mining rig to be able to restart and begin mining unattended. Here are the things I to do accomplish that.

1. Edit the BIOS to automatically restart after a power failure. By default, most systems require pressing the power button to restart after a power failure. Unfortunately protecting the mining rig with a UPS for extended power failures isn't practical because advanced graphics adapters pull a lot of power, so you'll just have to let the system go down for power failures. That's fine (not ideal, but ok) as long as the computer can restart when power is restored.

2. Edit the startup folder to contain a shortcut to the mining application, which will start the application automatically when the account is logged in.
A. Select mining shortcut on desktop, and copy (ctrl + c)
B. Windows Key + r
C. Enter shell:common startup
D. Paste mining shortcut (ctrl + v)

3. Set a password for the user account so that Remote Access is secure.

4. Allow automatic entry to the user account without prompting for password. Note that a password will still be required for Remote Desktop access. Here's how to do it.
A. Windows Key + r
B. Enter netplwiz
C. Select User account
D. Uncheck “Users Must Enter A User Name And Password”
E. Click OK

5. Setup Remote Desktop to access the mining computer from your workstation computer.

Doing that will allow you to do all administration of the mining computer from your regular computer. That way the mining rig won't need a monitor, keyboard, or mouse. To make things even more simple I created shortcuts on the mining computer desktop for rebooting & shutting down the mining rig. Here are the commands:

shutdown -r (reboots computer)
shutdown -s (shuts off the computer)


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## Ellendra (Jul 31, 2013)

Honestly, I think if I get to the point of building a dedicated rig, I'll probably get my brother to program it. He's the software person. I'm the hardware person. He's been rewriting BIOSes since he was 7. I've been taking things apart and rebuilding them since I was 7. When we can manage not to fight, we're a pretty good team


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I heard the Ethereum had a big crash today.


> *Ethereum Flash Crashes By 96% After Status ICO Clogs Network*
> ZeroHedge
> by Tyler Durden
> Jun 21, 2017 4:27 PM
> ...


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-21/ethereum-flash-crashes-after-status-ico-clogs-network


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I heard the Ethereum had a big crash today.


I've been watching. It's been extremely volatile. The trading range today was more than $200.










But it's back to $322 right now.


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## DoubleAcre (Dec 15, 2014)

rambler said:


> ...The pyramid structure of these cyber currencies says doing the math and finding answers to the problems will get ever harder, resulting in less and less new currency being generated as time goes on...


The only way the math becomes harder is if the network requires the change. Four example, a bitcoin block should be found every 10 minutes. As more people start mining, the hash rate increases and the blocks get found faster. The network adjusts the difficulty to compensate for this. If people loose interest and stop mining, the hash rate would drop and the difficulty would also drop making it easier again.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

DoubleAcre said:


> The only way the math becomes harder is if the network requires the change. Four example, a bitcoin block should be found every 10 minutes. As more people start mining, the hash rate increases and the blocks get found faster. The network adjusts the difficulty to compensate for this. If people loose interest and stop mining, the hash rate would drop and the difficulty would also drop making it easier again.


The real question is the future of cryptocurrency after coin awards end, which is built-in to the plan for all cryptocurrency. The idea is that by that time there will be enough transactions to attract miners on the transaction fees alone.


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## Yellowsnow (May 11, 2016)

Please leave the AMD cards alone. I really want to purchase an rx 580. I don't want Vega.

In all honesty, this is going to hurt AMD in the long run. Gamers and system builders are now forced to buy Nvidia because the miners are buying all amd cards. Why not use Nvidia cards? Is the very slight percentage gain really needed?


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## DoubleAcre (Dec 15, 2014)

Exactly. With only a set number of btc to be produced, the transaction fee award per block would still be profitable as long as large amounts of transactions are being made.

I don't see a pyramid scheme here. Everyone gets there share according to their contribution. There isn't anyone on top with workers of different levels below them all making different cuts.

If the idea was pre mining to earn coins before it gets popular, each coin has a different approach to that and usually really fair. Or if the theory came from those in the beginning earning the most. That's a gamble as they don't know if it will take off. The thread about the pizza delivery proved that. At the time btc wasn't worth hardly anything and he offered 10k coins to someone that would bring him a pizza. If he had known he'd be worth 26 million had he kept the coins.....


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