# How Much Ammo



## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

I know most people will say that you never can have enough ammo or, buy how much ever you can afford, etc.; but, what would be a reasonable SHTF amount to stock for hunting and defense for a 30-06, .22, and 410 shotgun?


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Depends on the s that htf. If you are looking at a 6 month time frame where you can't get to the store to buy ammo and you have to hunt for your food I would estimate that 1000 rounds each might get you through if you are a good shot and supplement your hunting with trapping. If you are looking at a scenario where you are fighting off zombie hoards and have no chance of ever buying ammo again 10 million rounds each would not be enough.


----------



## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

With ammunition for a .22 weapon(s) at 500 rounds per brick, I would have at least 10,000 rounds or 20 bricks.

For .30-06 Springfield, which usually comes in 20 rounds per box, then as a minimum I would have 1,000 rounds or 50 boxes. Get several different types such as FMJ Ball mil-surplus (full metal jacket), or SP (soft point) for hunting in different projectile weights such as 150 grains and 180 grains.

For a .410 or other sized shotgun, which comes in boxes of 25 rounds per, I would have at least 40 boxes in different sizes of shot (#4, #6, #7 1/2, etc.) plus some slugs.

Yet for this "Gun Happy Marine', I have a considerable larger amount of ammunition and many more weapons. Think along the lines of needing a forklift and pallets, in order to move it..

In the past before the rise in prices and scaricity of ammunition, Military Surplus ammunition such as the .30-06 Springfield was cheaper and widely available in different sealed containers. I acquired .30-06 FMJ 150 grain Ball ammunition that was packaged in bandoleers on 5 round stripper clips for the model 1903 Springfield, and in 8 round en-bloc clips for the M-1 Garand - in military designed long term storage devices. Besides the standard 20 round paperboard boxes, which are used for the commerical sporting rounds.


----------



## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

Every time my guys talk about getting a new gun I HAVE to say, "No more guns, get more ammo for what we have", one would think that they'd get sick of me saying that...We have enough guns, but we can never have enough ammo!

Thanks for the recommendations!


----------



## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

I look at ammunition from 2 different standpoints:
1) Defend/survival in place.
2) Bugging out.

If you are planning to defend in place and thusly survive by hunting from there too, storage of greater quantities of ammunition make more sense.
30-06: minimum 1000 rounds
.410: minimum of 200 rounds mixed self defense and hunting
.22: I think 5,000 to 10,000 rounds is a good start

Bugging out. I would still start with what I said above but realistically plan for how much you can carry if you needed too.

Obviously you can physically carry more rounds of .22 than 30-06. So tctically a choice might have to be made which weapon and which ammo would be the smarter choice to carry.


----------



## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hi,
When you start having multiples of that I would look into having a stash some other place. With simalr amounts as well as spare BOB type spares. Would you need me to explain why I think so?
Cheers,
Dutch


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I'd consider the 30.06 the main hunting rifle for large game only. I have a couple of hunting rifles, and have only a couple hundred rounds for them. I have a couple of 22lr in pistol and rifle, and have 'my fair share' of rounds... figure enough for ten lifetimes.

A box of ought six is going to be at least $20, unless you get some closeout Federal rounds. Same $20 will get you over 500 rounds of 22lr.

With skill, a person can kill just about anything with a 22lr. [have read about Inuits killing polar bears with 22s. Of course, you have to get out in a boat, in the frozen sea, and shoot them in the ear, while they're swimming]. You get way more bang for your buck with a 22. If your not skilled, or wildlife has done been decimated (and skiddish), the ought six will reach out there and touch someone.

If your bugging out, I'd never consider leaving behind the 22's, simply because I could comfortably carry a couple thousand rounds on my back... carry half that much of ought six ammo, and you'll be carrying not much else, because of the weight.

My ammo purchases are looking to be wise purchases... most of the prices are still rising, ever so slowly. 

The old ought six is a fine cartridge for hunting, and it's what the military use to use... so it'll knock down a 'zombie' if need be. However, most of the rounds are minimum 50c each.

I picked up a couple rifles in 09, that use military ammo, that can still be had for 12 or 13c/round.

You can't go wrong with 22 ammo, ou can sell or trade it later, if need be, regardless of whether society is still functioning...


----------



## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

There is only two times you can have to much ammo 

If you are drowning or on fire :run:


----------



## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

I read this thread to my guys, they did some counting and we decided to run into town...Bimart is having a sale!

Radiofish, you got me looking to see what I had Shotgun shell-wise, oh jeez, I need shells in all sizes except 71/2, I can't imagine why that is the only size I have...I do have slugs, I haven't tried them yet.
Are the slugs any different than regular shells kick wise? My current shotgun hasn't knocked me down yet and I'd like to keep it that way.


----------



## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

I think it depends on what you will be doing. I'm not going to be hiking thru the hills after that elusive buck. I'll mostly be shooting varmints. So lots of .22lr and not so much of anything bigger or pricier. 

You didn't mention a handgun. Really ought to get a couple of good ones.


----------



## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

That's a nearly impossible question to answer, but mine would be "as much as possible without making too much financial sacrifice to other necessary preps".

That said, I'd go real, real heavy on .22 LR. It ain't always ideal, but itl'll bring down most most small-medium game with good marksmanship, and even the .22 (if you have enough) can generate "volume of fire", which keeps an enemy pinned and will make all but a highly-motivated group of zombies look for an easier target.

I'd ditch the 410 and get a 12 gauge. If recoil is an issue, get low-brass rounds.


----------



## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

How much ammo?Minimums of 1000rds of any centerfire rifle or handgun,10,000-.22,shotgun-500...the problem with a .410 is cost of ammo,buying 500 .410 costs as much as 1250-1500-12ga.Look for a used reloader and save a ton of money.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Are the slugs any different than regular shells kick wise?


They usually seem to have more recoil


----------



## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

I should have mentioned that we wouldn't be hunting unless we were in dire need because we're old and handicap (DH can walk a few 100 ft. at a time; I'm in a wheelchair), but I wouldn't rule it out if SHTF goes goes very term and things get desperate. Deer do come close to the house though; we're just not hunters in general.

Mostly, I'm thinking for defense. Bugging out is only a remote possibility and we would have to drive to location, so hauling ammo isn't a problem; but we're thinking more along the lines of protection. We won't be doing any Ruby Ridge type stuff with the Feds (I surrender easy!..lol), just protecting our property and lives from zombies or to scare away desperate people who mean no harm but don't understand what no tresspassing means.


----------



## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

You may not need very much ammo at all. There's people on board here who believe that the wild game will become scarce very fast if the shtf. If that's true, then you won't need much to hunt with. As for defense, what if you looked down the road, or across the field and seen about a dozen pickups heading your way loaded down with bandits. All of them holding rifles and handguns. Do you really thing you and your wheel chaired bound husband can defend yourself. 

I would be hopping in my vehicle with stashed bugout bags and heading the opposite direction.


----------



## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Oldcountryboy said:


> .....snip..... As for defense, what if you looked down the road, or across the field and seen about a dozen pickups heading your way loaded down with bandits. All of them holding rifles and handguns. Do you really thing you and your wheel chaired bound husband can defend yourself. ....snip....


I think they could..... especially if they knew it was a survival situation and such a group was coming on in..... logically if the driver is shot the first rig becomes either a BIG hurdle to get around and it also becomes a HUGE psychological deterrent to the rest of the losers coming in to steal. most people dont have the fortitude to keep on an offensive when their buddy who was also a thief just went down from a well placed round from someone who was supposed to be "easy pickens"

Sometimes running is not as easy as it sounds. and well prepared defenses will aid in over coming what to others may seem to be extreme odds.




marinemomtatt said:


> ..I do have slugs, I haven't tried them yet.
> Are the slugs any different than regular shells kick wise? My current shotgun hasn't knocked me down yet and I'd like to keep it that way.


If you dont have a slug barrel, it may not be a wise thing to shot some slugs out of your shotty. Depends upon the choke or if the barrel is choked....... I have an "Improved Cyl" on my old shotgun and use "sabot" slugs in it... plus a few other of my own loads i developed for "bear hunting" and "defensive bird hunting" 

Anyhow if you are not sure take it to a gunsmith to be checked first before firing a slug through..... ive seen several barrels over the years "blown up" from obstructions and improper rounds used..... injuries resulting therefrom are not fun.

William
Idaho


----------



## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

Slugs will NOT harm any modern (say post 1950) shotgun. The extra slug barrel MAY give you better accuracy, the sights on it are better than the standard front bead. It sounds like you do not want a tacticool shotgun.
My advice for what it is worth.
30-06--200 rounds. Find someone who reloads to make some reduced loads for you or better yet teach you how. (also cheaper) They do sell reduced loads, called managed recoil, but the difference is not much. Minimum practice for what you described as your needs 10 rounds twice a year AFTER you are very familiar with the rifle. You rotate out 1 box a year, about $25.
.22--1,000 + rounds. This is what you mainly practice with, 100+ rounds twice a year.
.410--keep what ammo you have and store it, or sell it and the gun if no sentimental value. Get a 20 GA pump, cheap. By the time you buy 300 rounds of bulk pack ammo at Wal-mart you will have saved enough to almost buy the gun.
Notice that most ammo storage in my mind is for practice! Not only for accuracy, but safety.


----------



## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

22lr - At least 5k
30-06 - atleast 2500
.410 - at least 500

Those are ideally what I'd like to have. If money was tight I'd settle for about half that. With my rifles I've got several different calibers so I might have 2200 of one, 1050 of another and maybe only a few hundred of something else. All depends on price. I wish I had the funds or could justify to buy alot more.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

swamp man said:


> That's a nearly impossible question to answer, but mine would be "as much as possible without making too much financial sacrifice to other necessary preps".
> 
> That said, I'd go real, real heavy on .22 LR. It ain't always ideal, but itl'll bring down most most small-medium game with good marksmanship, and even the .22 (if you have enough) can generate "volume of fire", which keeps an enemy pinned and will make all but a highly-motivated group of zombies look for an easier target.
> 
> I'd ditch the 410 and get a 12 gauge. If recoil is an issue, get low-brass rounds.


It is really amazing the noise a Ruger 10-22 can make, when it has a 50 round magazine attached!

recoil??? ain't no recoil if your shooting at something that your going to eat or might eat you!!! Shoot at paper, dang that mule kicks! Always been a mystery to me... something to do with adrenalin, I 'spect.

If I got bit by 'zombies' and became a raider, I really wouldn't care if the person sending lead whizzies past my ear were in a wheelchair or not. The old saying God Created All Men, Samuel Colt made the Equal... is very true. A bullet shot by a first grader will kill ya just as fast as one fired by a marine sniper.


----------



## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

I wish I could comment on this thread, but I don't believe in stockpiling ammo.


----------



## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

^^^May I ask why not? You do realize ther if anyone local knows you're prepped, minus firearm wise, that'll make you a potential target in a time of crisis?


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Usingmyrights said:


> ^^^May I ask why not? You do realize ther if anyone local knows you're prepped, minus firearm wise, that'll make you a potential target in a time of crisis?


thats why he doesn't comment


----------



## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

Cabin Fever said:


> .... but I don't believe in stockpiling ammo.





GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> thats why he doesn't comment


That says enough right there IMHO. Unless he's being sarcastic and is actually well prepped in the guns/ammo department. For now, I'll take it at face value.


----------



## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

2x as much as DH needs. He is a much better shot.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

have you given any consideration to a defencive hand gun for each of you a 38 or 9mm or something along those lines , reason i say is because if you can't run accross the house to grab your rifle fast enough in good health , doing it in poor health is that much harder. when you need a gun you tend to need it when you don't have one handy , so making one much handier helps 

even a 22 pistol, as they have been used to stop many many crimes and attacks while not ideal still take the title for most used 

plain and simple the best gun is the one you have at the time. 

bad guys come in lots of packaging , some were suits , some t-shirts , but never heard of one yet who came holding a sign saying i am a bad guy and i am here to hurt you and steal your ______.


----------



## Steve L. (Feb 23, 2004)

Cabin Fever said:


> I wish I could comment on this thread, but I don't believe in stockpiling ammo.


 Yeah, me too. :angel:

On the hunting angle, I just counted up my .270 ammo. I've got 168 rounds. Based on my shooting record so far, that should kill me 150 deer. That would last me a long, long time. I've only got a couple of thousand 22 rounds, but I'm working on rectifying that situation. 

I'd much rather have a decent reloading set-up, and a good supply of components (including lead, I've got over 1000 lbs) than the same amount of money in ammo.


----------



## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

My 12 gauge is about as old as I am, we think it was given life in 1964, she's a real beauty, she's got a purdy name too, a warriors name...no, not Xena...~lol~...
I will take it down to Gun Crafters to be sure before popping a slug in there.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> My 12 gauge is about as old as I am, we think it was given life in 1964


As long as it's not a "Damascus" steel barrel, or some fine old English double barrel, it's perfectly safe to shoot slugs.

The only thing you might NOT want to shoot is STEEL shot


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

i shoot a 1947 ithica with slugs just fine i use the winchester super x rifled slugs that come in the 15 round packs 

the 12 ga winchester super x slugs in the 15rnd value pack are the best bag for the buck but shop around for the best price on them


----------



## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Cabin Fever said:


> I wish I could comment on this thread, but I don't believe in stockpiling ammo.


Cabin, I'd like to hear your opinion and why. Feel free to PM me if you feel better about not posting publically.


----------



## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

My comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. My recommendation would be to stock up on as much ammo as you can afford and safely store. What you can't use, you can always trade. It is not uncommon for the two of us, to blow away a couple hundred rounds during practice.

Most of our ammo was stored in my gun safe. Now it has overflowed to the area next to the safe. This summer I am planning on burying some of the overflow in sealed PVC pipes.

I try to limit our ammo requirement to just a few different cartridges: 22LR, 30Carbine, .45acp, 556NATO, 7.62NATO, and .30-06 M2 Ball. Yes, I have a few other miscellaneous cartridges, but not in large quantities.


----------



## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

LOL!! Somehow I knew there would be a picture like that coming


----------



## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hi,
Thats a good idea marking the cans with yellow paint stick.
Dutch


----------



## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

Great picture!
Can't wait to show my guys.


----------



## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

Is the ammo in the cans loose or in the cardboard boxes it came in?




Cabin Fever said:


> My comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. My recommendation would be to stock up on as much ammo as you can afford and safely store. What you can't use, you can always trade. It is not uncommon for the two of us, to blow away a couple hundred rounds during practice.
> 
> Most of our ammo was stored in my gun safe. Now it has overflowed to the area next to the safe. This summer I am planning on burying some of the overflow in sealed PVC pipes.
> 
> I try to limit our ammo requirement to just a few different cartridges: 22LR, 30Carbine, .45acp, 556NATO, 7.62NATO, and .30-06 M2 Ball. Yes, I have a few other miscellaneous cartridges, but not in large quantities.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Thanks for posting that cache pic, Cabin Fever... now it'll appear my meager cache is just that meager.

As far as "I'm" concerned... now I feel like a slacker.

Was at a gunshow this weekend, and only one bulk dealer on hand... I know they have to make a profit, but several online sources, even with shipping, were 30 to 40bucks a box cheaper. Could have been the Tucson factor... quite a few folks were sitting at the tables filling out the 4473s.


----------



## Guest (Jan 18, 2011)

A slightly different twist. I have some factory loded ammo for my 30-06, 12 guage, 357 mag, and 2000 rounds for the Ruger 10-22. I have at least 2 guns in each caliber/guage. I have components to load 750 rounds of 30-06, 1500 357, and 2000 12 guage cartridges. 

Components cost less than factory loaded ammo so I can stock more. In the event TSHTF I will sit down at the reloaders and load some up. 

In a barter situation, factory ammo and components trade better than reloaded ammo because the buyer is more certain of the factory ammo and the components than the reloads. You may wind up trading ammo for other necessities.

Make a second stash of guns and ammo somewhere else in case the Gov comes and takes them away, like in Katrina. When the agent says "we have a record of you buying guns that are not here" your response is "well there was this terrible boating accident and they are at the bottom of the lake."


----------



## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

FyredUp said:


> Is the ammo in the cans loose or in the cardboard boxes it came in?


I buy ammo in bulk. It is very rare for me to run down to WalMart and buy a box of shells. For instance, I recently purchased a 1000 rds of new production Federal 5.56NATO. The rounds were loose inside a single plastic bag. Other purchases have included hundreds of rounds of 5.56NATO, 7.62NATO or .30 Carbine on stripper clips in bandoleers.

So, to answer your question, almost none of the ammo is in pasteboard boxes. It is either loose, on stripper clips, in enbloc clips, or loaded in mags.


----------



## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Dutch 106 said:


> Hi,
> Thats a good idea marking the cans with yellow paint stick.
> Dutch


I use the oil-base paint stick. What is nice is that the writing can be easily removed with a bit of nail polish remover (acetone) if you change the contents of the can. The nail polish remover does not remove the OD paint.


----------



## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

Cabin-It looks like we've got the same thoughts on stocking up some certain calibers while only having a small amount of others. Have you've had any trouble with the feed lips spreading on your AR mags? I've heard problems with double feeding with AR mags thats been kept loaded to long. I've personally experienced mag problems with one of my pistol mags that was kept loaded to long. The spring ended up not having enough umph to load the next round everytime. This same gun will feed empty cases with about 70% reliablity (I heard that, that particular model would and had to try it to see if it was true). Also have you thought about going with molle gear to replace your older mag pouches? It would allow you to carry alot more at once.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

One thing a person could do in order to have double duty ammo would be to have handguns and rifles that use the same ammo. There are a lot of handguns that use .22lr ammo. 

I live in an area where domestic animals are rampant. I'd pick those off before starting on wild critters. Dog and cat would be fair game in a true shtf scenario.

Forgot about the poor shot ratio. Dh has trouble hitting the broad side of a barn, from inside it. Need more ammo, can never have too much ammo if the person shooting can't hit anything. 

As for the long run situation, I figure it might take a year or more for the ill prepared or the ones who simply can't cut the mustard to be eliminated from the equation. If all you are eating is wild game and you don't add any vegetables or grains you'll die from malnutrition pretty quick. My main use for ammo would be to keep roaming zombies at bay or to pick off the packs of loose dogs and garden destroying cats.


----------



## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Usingmyrights said:


> Cabin-It looks like we've got the same thoughts on stocking up some certain calibers while only having a small amount of others. Have you've had any trouble with the feed lips spreading on your AR mags? I've heard problems with double feeding with AR mags thats been kept loaded to long. I've personally experienced mag problems with one of my pistol mags that was kept loaded to long. The spring ended up not having enough umph to load the next round everytime. This same gun will feed empty cases with about 70% reliablity (I heard that, that particular model would and had to try it to see if it was true). Also have you thought about going with molle gear to replace your older mag pouches? It would allow you to carry alot more at once.


So far, I have had no problem with my mags. I use only Colt mags in my Colt ARs and only Springfield Armory mags in my M1A. I'm not saying these mags are any better than other mags, just sayin' I have no problems with them to date. 

In my WWII M1 carbine, I use USGI surplus mags and haven't had a problem with those either. I guess time will tell.

To a "purest" like me, who collects US military rifles, it would not be right for me to use aftermarket MOLLE gear....my rifles would disown me! Thanks but I'll stick with the USGI stuff.


----------



## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

So get your hands on some US issue MOLLE gear. Though for the M1 I too would have to stay with the orginal stuff from a purist standpoint. I'm going to shoot you a PM about your safe. I forgot to add it on my last post, and thinking about it, it'd be best to just send it in a PM.


----------



## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

These are some pics of when I had opened up for use - a sealed "Spam Can" of 1,224 rounds (17 boxes of 72 cartridges) of Soviet-Bloc 7.62X25mm Tokarev 85 grain (1,600 ft per second muzzle velocity @ 600 ft/ lbs muzzle energy) pistol/ submachinegun ammunition. These cartridges are fired in my several CZ-52 pistols, and I am known to use them as some of my CCW weapons..










Then I take and place two or three (216 rounds) boxes of ammunition, inside several layers of the quart sized heavy duty freezer zip-loc type bags.










Then I place the now 'full' .30 caliber ammo can inside the 20mm larger ammo cans, which can hold four of the .30 caliber ammo cans, and 1 .50 caliber ammo can. I try to have a variety of my calibers, inside of each 20mm large ammo can - this means of long-term storage gives at 3 different layers of moisture protection. I also add dessicants inside the ammo cans..

Plus there is some spare room for storage of a bayonet/ knife and a few addditional items. I can only get two of the 'spam cans', and a .30 caliber into a 20mm ammo can..










I should try CF's yellow ammo can marking system. I have been using a large 'sharpie' for the ID'ing of each boxes contents.










My Quality Control Inspector, giving her final approval before the sealed and secured 20mm ammo cans are placed/ stacked in a cool dark well ventilated area..

On the 1st page of this thread, there was a question about shooting slugs in a 'regular' shotgun barrel. Well as a kid, I fired a lot of .410 slugs in my Dad's double barreled Savage shotgun with no problems. If using my 12 gauge Remington 870's - if possible I would either use the 'slug barrel', or remove the choke tube from the longer ventilated rib barrel.


----------



## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

Hubby says he wants a "lifetime" which basically is 1000+ rounds for each of our guns.


----------



## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Well, I should never have asked this question. I had my husband read the responses and now he's gone well...gun ho! :smack Turns out that, during a conversation with another scout leader, my husband found out he owns a gun shop. This guys said 'anything for fellow scout leader' and told my husband that he would wholesale him all the ammo he wants. He also called him later to tell him about a hand gun he would discount and also a 12 gauge. 

He says, "See, I told you we needed a lot more. I'm only trying to keep you safe". This from a man who never owned a gun in his life up until 3 years ago.

So hubby is in there now looking over the finances (including the savings account balance). After he saw Cabin's ammo pics, he was so impressed that I'm pretty sure we're going to end up taking out a second mortgage. Thanks a lot Cabin!! LOL! :grin:


----------



## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

I wouldn't shoot a shotgun without a choke installed. Thats a great way to bugger up the threads. Sure it can be retapped, but definately would be better to keep them in good shape to start with. Could use an ImprovedCyclinder choke.


----------



## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

Karen said:


> Well, I should never have asked this question. I had my husband read the responses and now he's gone well...gun ho! :smack Turns out that, during a conversation with another scout leader, my husband found out he owns a gun shop. This guys said 'anything for fellow scout leader' and told my husband that he would wholesale him all the ammo he wants. He also called him later to tell him about a hand gun he would discount and also a 12 gauge.
> 
> He says, "See, I told you we needed a lot more. I'm only trying to keep you safe". This from a man who never owned a gun in his life up until 3 years ago.
> 
> So hubby is in there now looking over the finances (including the savings account balance). After he saw Cabin's ammo pics, he was so impressed that I'm pretty sure we're going to end up taking out a second mortgage. Thanks a lot Cabin!! LOL! :grin:




Just make sure he practices... a lot!! We have several guns that we routinely take out, clean, sight in and shoot to keep ourselves sharp.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> If using my 12 gauge Remington 870's - if possible I would either use the 'slug barrel', *or remove the choke tube *from the longer ventilated rib barrel.


I wouldn't shoot it without a choke tube.

Just use the Imp Cyl choke


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Karen said:


> Well, I should never have asked this question. I had my husband read the responses and now he's gone well...gun ho! :smack Turns out that, during a conversation with another scout leader, my husband found out he owns a gun shop. This guys said 'anything for fellow scout leader' and told my husband that he would wholesale him all the ammo he wants. He also called him later to tell him about a hand gun he would discount and also a 12 gauge.
> 
> He says, "See, I told you we needed a lot more. I'm only trying to keep you safe". This from a man who never owned a gun in his life up until 3 years ago.
> 
> So hubby is in there now looking over the finances (including the savings account balance). After he saw Cabin's ammo pics, he was so impressed that I'm pretty sure we're going to end up taking out a second mortgage. Thanks a lot Cabin!! LOL! :grin:


Sounds like hubby has some good friends... wish I had a wholesaling bulk ammo friend!


----------



## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I wouldn't shoot it without a choke tube.
> 
> Just use the Imp Cyl choke


Well I wasn't gonna use a "full choke" tube, while firing a slug... 

That is also why I have the extra 'slug barrel', for each of my Remington 870's.


----------



## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

Cabin Fever said:


> My comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. My recommendation would be to stock up on as much ammo as you can afford and safely store. What you can't use, you can always trade. It is not uncommon for the two of us, to blow away a couple hundred rounds during practice.
> 
> Most of our ammo was stored in my gun safe. Now it has overflowed to the area next to the safe. This summer I am planning on burying some of the overflow in sealed PVC pipes.
> 
> I try to limit our ammo requirement to just a few different cartridges: 22LR, 30Carbine, .45acp, 556NATO, 7.62NATO, and .30-06 M2 Ball. Yes, I have a few other miscellaneous cartridges, but not in large quantities.




After responding to this post I showed the picture to my husband and his first words were: "I'm jealous". :bow:


----------



## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> i shoot a 1947 ithica


You sir, have a fine taste in firearms.


----------



## Deb862 (Jun 22, 2005)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> Now y'all understand why he can't ask me "Do you NEED another ball of yarn!?!?!?" or else I might ask "Do you NEED another 1000 rounds of ammo?!?!?!" :viking: :bash: :frypan:


:goodjob: Same here LOL, although he did ask the yarn question _once_ :grin:


----------



## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> Now y'all understand why he can't ask me "Do you NEED another ball of yarn!?!?!?" or else I might ask "Do you NEED another 1000 rounds of ammo?!?!?!" :viking: :bash: :frypan:


:rotfl:


----------



## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Danaus29 said:


> Depends on the s that htf. If you are looking at a 6 month time frame where you can't get to the store to buy ammo and you have to hunt for your food I would estimate that 1000 rounds each might get you through if you are a good shot and supplement your hunting with trapping. If you are looking at a scenario where you are fighting off zombie hoards and have no chance of ever buying ammo again 10 million rounds each would not be enough.


Why would you need 1000 rounds of ammo just to hunt for 6 months worth of food?

I shot a deer in late October, and got a good estimated 50 lbs of meat at least. One bullet, and that thing could have lasted me a good 2 months. Even if you have a family, if you can take ten deer that should last you and yours 6 months or you are doing something wrong.

Even if you miss half the time, 20 rounds of ammo and 10 to tweak your sites...thats only 30 rounds. What would you need 1000 rounds for? (assuming a six month hunting only scenario).


----------



## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> Now y'all understand why he can't ask me "Do you NEED another ball of yarn!?!?!?" or else I might ask "Do you NEED another 1000 rounds of ammo?!?!?!" :viking: :bash: :frypan:


I assume the answer to both questions is a resounding "Yes"! :sing:


----------



## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

kirkmcquest said:


> Why would you need 1000 rounds of ammo just to hunt for 6 months worth of food?
> 
> I shot a deer in late October, and got a good estimated 50 lbs of meat at least. One bullet, and that thing could have lasted me a good 2 months. Even if you have a family, if you can take ten deer that should last you and yours 6 months or you are doing something wrong.
> 
> Even if you miss half the time, 20 rounds of ammo and 10 to tweak your sites...thats only 30 rounds. What would you need 1000 rounds for? (assuming a six month hunting only scenario).


We have a family (sons, daughters-in-law, and grandchild) of...well, let's just say, MANY! Let's say I can feed them based on your math. Can I train them? Can I account for possible manufacturing failures? Can I account for loss? Can they take some rifles out for the day and have some fun?

Oh heck. I stock ammo. And food. And med supplies. And seeds. And... And... And....

I don't prep just for need. Some preps are just because it makes me feel better or because I want to. Coffee is one.

How much ammo do I need? MORE!


----------



## VERN in IL (Nov 30, 2008)

I would say 1,000 rounds of each caliber, HIGH QUALITY ammo.

and a 30-60 round ROTATION every WEEK for your marksmanship skills.(VERY IMPORTANT)

and perhaps a LEE reloading system?



> Why would you need 1000 rounds of ammo just to hunt for 6 months worth of food?


Bartering, not everyone has ammo in sufficient quantities.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

In a bartering situation, ammo is worth it's weight in gold. If I were down to my last case of cartridges, gold wouldn't get you very far.

I could easily see cartridges being used as currency.

An Ought Six bullet a dollar

A shotgun shell slug 50c, 

shotgun shell bird shot 25c

pistol cartridge... .44 mag/45 LC 10c

pistol cartridge... 9, 40, or 45, 5c

22LR 1c

of course, depending on how much each area had in total would affect the exchange rate. Every family up and down the road has ten cases of buckshot and only a handful of 22LR would find 22LR being more valuable.

You can't have too much... you can always sell it later... if you need cash, or food.


----------



## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

I have 15,000 22 LR and 25,000 rounds of 45 and 308 combined (or the components to load them).

I also have 300 lbs of wheel weights already smelted into ingots, ready to go...just in case my stockpile of jacketed bullets isn't adequate.

I figure even if I can't use it all, this stuff could make for killer barter. Lots of guys will be looking for 22, 45 and 308.

And it is not all sitting at my house! You really need to spread the stuff around some. If it is all in one spot, and that spot gets found, you lose.


Tim


----------



## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

My $0.02 is this; as much as you feel you will need, and then a few extra boxes for barter. My neighbor is a big time hunter; one shot, one animal in the freezer. Yet he only buys a few shells at a time. We often exchange veggies for venison, and I always hear, "Need to get some shells for next season".
Well, I figure a few extra boxes of shells, should he need them, may mean a continued source of venison, if SHTF. Plus, he knows I also have the delivery devices for said ammo, and it makes for a fair trade.
Matt


----------



## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

My opinion, get rid of the .410 and get a 20 or better yet a 12 gauge. Cheaper ammo, more readily available and wider range of hunting capacity and defensive capacity.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Roadking said:


> My $0.02 is this; as much as you feel you will need, and then a few extra boxes for barter. My neighbor is a big time hunter; one shot, one animal in the freezer. Yet he only buys a few shells at a time. We often exchange veggies for venison, and I always hear, "Need to get some shells for next season".
> Well, I figure a few extra boxes of shells, should he need them, may mean a continued source of venison, if SHTF. Plus, he knows I also have the delivery devices for said ammo, and it makes for a fair trade.
> Matt


We were that way growing up. One shot, one kill. Rarely would there be a whole box of cartridges for each of the numerous firearms in the house. One day Pa brought home a case of shotgun shells... thought I was in heaven. At that point in time, a brick of 22lr was a large box with ten little boxes of 50 inside... usually those individual boxes were sold. Remember when I got my first 10-22 and got a 'banana clip' for it. Pa wanted to know what the heck I was going to shoot with that many bullets.... just get the rifle and kill it for goodness sakes.

I still know lots of folks that are one box johnnies... why stockpile, Wallyworld has plenty.

Boxes for barter, for these one box johnnies, could come in real handy.

Subsonic 22lr is nice to have, when taking small critters without attracting unwelcome zombie ears...


----------



## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

Walmart doesn't always have plenty. Just last year, you'd be lucky to find handgun, .22lr or one of the mainstream military calibers ammo on the shelf. If there was it'd be only a box or two.


----------



## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

Karen said:


> I know most people will say that you never can have enough ammo or, buy how much ever you can afford, etc.; but, what would be a reasonable SHTF amount to stock for hunting and defense for a 30-06, .22, and 410 shotgun?


 Well, you might take into consideration whether it's going to be banned/confiscated - how much backbone do you figure we all have ? Are we going to jail for hiding it ?
If it came to letting it go/going to FEMA-jail, you might let it go easier if you hadn't an inordinate amount ?
This is a worthwhile question - will the stuff be like money ? I can't see that because you don't want to be advertising your stash, just like w/silver coins or gold - how can you dare to use that until things have gotten semi-civilised again ? Ammo won't be in such demand after the worst of the crisis, no ?
All moot for me, as I have none you understand !


----------



## Old John (May 27, 2004)

O/T but...DSW has been after me, to get started learning to Reload. Ammo is getting more expensive every year. And "Gee, you have to practice, right?" 
It's easy to burn through 4 or 5 boxes in an afternoon, of various calibers.
So, I guess that's the next investment for me. 
I've been saving brass for a few months now.
I have to hit the Reloading books and the internet first, though.


----------



## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> .....maybe you are not in deer country and maybe you are shooting gamebirds, duck, geese, pheasant, grouse, doves, squirrels, raccoons, stray cats?
> 
> And maybe all that gunfire attracks zombies - you might need MORE than 1000 rounds to keep that **** on your own BarBQ :shocked:
> .....


Speaking of *****, I've never had a need to procure them with a rifle. The hav-a-hart trap and a chicken bone usually gets them within an hour after sundown. 

True, I currently use a .22 short to dispatch them. If I need to do it silently, I'd probably just lower the trap into the creek for an hour and then process the carcass.

I recently served one up at a local potluck. Everyone thought it was beef!

The trap is re-usable and much cheaper to operate and easier to get than a rifle - depending on what state you are in.

Just a thought for those who want to procure their meat without a noisy rifle.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Usingmyrights said:


> Walmart doesn't always have plenty. Just last year, you'd be lucky to find handgun, .22lr or one of the mainstream military calibers ammo on the shelf. If there was it'd be only a box or two.


Very familiar with this scenario. Wallyworld, the world champion at supply/delivery logistics, failed to see the unique opportunity that presented itself, with the election an avowed progressive. They should have sensed that he could win, and ordered vast quantities ahead of time and had them in distribution centers. For a while, you could only get bricks of 22lr reliably... then they were gone. Supplies have recovered in the last six months or so. Every red blooded American that treasures their 2nd amendment rights went out and bought several lifetimes worth of firearms and ammunition.

Alas, a large percentage of those stocks are at the bottom of a large lake... 

I'd already filled my holes, but jawboned regularly with all the ammo distributors in the area, and knew exactly when their supplies arrived each week. Didn't get cases from any locals, as their markups were too steep. But I always made some purchase...


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Old John said:


> O/T but...DSW has been after me, to get started learning to Reload. Ammo is getting more expensive every year. And "Gee, you have to practice, right?"
> It's easy to burn through 4 or 5 boxes in an afternoon, of various calibers.
> So, I guess that's the next investment for me.
> I've been saving brass for a few months now.
> I have to hit the Reloading books and the internet first, though.


I've been thinking about that too


----------



## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

A friend of mine wants to trade his complete cartridge reloading set up for my T/C Contender with 3 barrels. I am tempted. But, I am not convinced that I would save that much $$ reloading over buying bulk surplus ammo for the very common calibers that I use.

Would appreciate if a reloader would provide a cost breakdown for reloading .45acp or .30-06.


----------



## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hey,
45acp 
Cases will reload about 20-30 times depending on how heavy a load, how heavily crimped the bullet.
I usually buy or scrounge once fired from people who don't reload, cheaper.
But brand new about 
50 cents a piece . used free to 10 cents or so.
primer 2 cents to 3.5 cents
powder win 231 5.7 grains=5.43 cents a round
bullet cast = about 5 cents a piece, jacketed about 22 to 30 cents a piece.
so 45ACP about 12.5 cents to 80 cents or about 35 cents a round or so if you figure you will get 20 uses out of new cases.
a round new at Wally world 60 cents or so or about with the cheapest bullets.


30-06 
cases 45 cents to free reload about 20 times if you are carefully or more if your very careful and don't heavy load.
Primer about the same from 2 - 3.5 cents each
powder imr 4895 with a 49 gr load= 14 cents
Bullet cast with gas check about 10 cents each, with jacketed bullet 25 Cents to 1.00 each.
so 30-06 27.5 cents a piece to 1.25 a round with expensive high performance bullets.
factory cheap= 1.5$ a round 
factory expensive $4 a round 

Plus of course what you pay for your reloading equipment.
now I have primers I paid less than 1 cent a peices and bullets I bought much cheaper 20 + years ago and I have been reloading for 35 + years.
Price is only one advantage to reloading with care you can build much more accurate ammo that works at ideal velocities for your rifle, and the bullets.
Cheapest lee loader single loader for 25 or so each caliber particularly for tapered rifle cases. but thats slow compared, I have some 8,000 plus 45 acp loaded still sitting from the last time I set up the Dillon square deal progresive loader some years ago.
its all what you want to pay and how involed you want to be.
Cheers,
Dutch


----------



## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Dutch

You might want to double-check your W231 price. I know you aren't paying $70/lb!!

My 45 ACP rounds with Nosler Factory 2nd jacketed bullets and 5 gr of Titegroup cost me about 17 cents each. I buy my powder in 8lb kegs at Powder Valley in KS...very cheap! Same load with cast bullets is about 5 cents.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Cabin Fever said:


> A friend of mine wants to trade his complete cartridge reloading set up for my T/C Contender with 3 barrels. I am tempted. But, I am not convinced that I would save that much $$ reloading over buying bulk surplus ammo for the very common calibers that I use.
> 
> Would appreciate if a reloader would provide a cost breakdown for reloading .45acp or .30-06.


Imho, unless your shooting thousands of rounds, and really enjoy reloading, it's hardly worth it, if you shoot mostly milsurp.

Now if you're shooting premium ammo, you can save money fast. You can load premium bullets in your cases, and fine tune the loads to your individual gun, for way less than a box of el cheapo noise bangers. I shoot 300gr. Hornady XTP's in my 44 mag. The individual bullets are relatively cheap (you can check Midway's online catalog or numerous other dealers for up to date prices), you can spend three or four cents for a primer, a dime or quarter for powder, and come out ahead. If I buy a box of 44 in 300gr XTP's, it's pretty much boxes of 20 only, and they're 'proud'.

Besides having a basic reloading setup, I invested years ago in bullet molds. It's an interesting art in itself. Can make numerous different sized bullets. One of my favorites is/was (haven't made any in years) is 320 gr bullets, heat treated for hardness. Mule deer I shot with one years back had a thumb sized hole on the left shoulder and a fist sized hole on the right. 75 yard shot. I think it would have done as good with an elk, which is what I was really carrying it for, just in case a bull snuck up on my blind side.


----------



## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

tarbe said:


> Dutch
> 
> You might want to double-check your W231 price. I know you aren't paying $70/lb!!
> 
> My 45 ACP rounds with Nosler Factory 2nd jacketed bullets and 5 gr of Titegroup cost me about 17 cents each. I buy my powder in 8lb kegs at Powder Valley in KS...very cheap! Same load with cast bullets is about 5 cents.


Huh, 
no that 4.5 cents not 4.5 $ a round. Win 231 runs around 23 $ per pound and will roll about 1250 rounds of 45 acp. With my loads.
So your saying all my numbers are wrong as well?
Dutch


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I shoot *300gr. Hornady XTP's *in my 44 mag.


They do great in a 50 cal muzzleloader too


----------



## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

If you reload you can take that 30-06 down to about .22lr velocity and noise. 2 rifles in one.


----------



## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Thanks Dutch, that really helps put things in perspective for me. For the kind of shooting that I do, I don't think I'd save much reloading.

The last .45acp I purchased was a 600 rd box of new manufacture Remington 230 gr FMJ came to $200 with tax....or about 34Â¢ per round.

The last .30-06 I bought was at a gun show. It was US milsurp linked M2 ball, 200 rds for $100 or 50Â¢ per round. Price included ammo can.


----------

