# Incrementalism



## Pack Rat (Nov 9, 2006)

I don't shop for much, or often, but needing to go get a couple sheets of plywood for a spring fix-up project from the nearest centre of 'civlisation', I stopped by the grocery there for a couple items, among them a 6 pack of a of beer I last tasted 40 years ago. Needless to say, I know people who have more beer in a weekend than I have in the past couple decades, so when I got the the checkout and the girl there asked for ID, I thought she was joking. She wasn't. A "new requirement" that the woman in line behind me confirmed. 

So now it isn't enough to look over 30 to buy beer, but some Authority needs to keep track of every Citizen who purchases it, from where, and how much. Next I will need ID to purchase chips with that beer, and soon after, to purchase any groceries at all, especially if I use cash. I'll need a Gov issued ID to buy plywood, or even enter a store. We'll be stopped on the street: "Where are your papers, citizen?" 

What was that Scripture about "none shall buy nor sell without bearing the Mark of the Beast"? All in the guise of fighting "terrorism" or money laundering or some other such carp, when the Beast doing the terrorizing is the gov itself.

It's become a crime to deposit or withdraw large sums of cash. It is considered a crime to have large sums of cash, and to have it confiscated on discovery just by suspicion of crime - no proof need be established. Every credit card transaction is tracked, because Gov knows any of us could well be a criminal, and they are doing all they can to make sure as many of us as possible are, in no small part by making ever more laws to run afoul of.

It's a good time for anyone who still can read (without having to show proper credentials) to go to Project Gutenberg and get a copy of "On the Duty of Civil Disobedience". Or to put Thoreau's verbose essay into 140 characters or less:* governments succeed in being oppressive by the tacit permission and cooperation of those they oppress*. In the same way, the vast majority of people who have committed all manner of war crimes were just "doing their job". Just as this cashier was just doing her job by asking me for ID.

The excuse is "I don't make the rules, but I have to follow them". While you may not get to make the rules, you don't have to follow them either, especially when they are inane or immoral. "Just say no."

For the record, I refused to show my ID. They can keep their beer. I'll keep my freedom.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Tracking one via an ID was surpassed a looooong time ago.
The internet is the biggest keyhole to your life, and the easiest to see thru.
I can see you, your land, your finances, your credit, your criminal history as well as your family, etc.
I can watch you wherever there are security cameras, drones and well, you get it.
Don't have a smart phone or a computer? Your utility company does, your bank does, your insurance company does.
I can use the dark web to go as far as I want and farther than most can believe possible.


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## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

Dont like to show ID for beer ..........join the rest of us and enjoy making your own.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

We live under the guise of freedom, a illusion that most believe since many do not do much that is freedom. But as soon as you do try to exercise some freedom you will soon be facing massive walls of regulations , illogical rules and blatant intrusions that will show you there are very few freedoms.

Be sure to get your real ID or you might not be considered a valid citizen.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

The last time somebody asked me to show my DL for beer I just left it on the counter and to date have not stepped back in for anything else.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

The poor guy/gal at the checkout counter doesn't care who you are or where you live or your ugly picture, they just want to see your birth date because they'll get fired if they don't, and they need that job. Put your frustration in the correct place. B*tch to the people that made the rules.

I'm in my 70's and recently got carded. I laughed and thanked them....


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

I use youtube and look up things on amazon a lot.
the next time I look up something, I am reminded of things I have previously looked at,,not purchased, just looked at.. we are being monitored ..
many young folks just accept it because they never knew any difference.. us old fogies pushing 80 remember when we were much more free..
back in the day, you protected your social security number with your life.. (I was 12 when I got my first job) and my card..
then in Wisc they decided that you needed your social security number to buy a hunting license.
My bro went to the court house . the reason they gave him was that they were tracking non paying fathers for child support. He took his three teenage boys back to the court house with a notorised statement that he was not a delinquent father.. He said the half dozen clerks stood and stared at him like deer in the headlights..
Finally he used our deceased father's social security card and got his license.. has been using it for about 40 years at last count..
until he died..


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## ticndig (Sep 7, 2014)

the way I see it is they ask for I.D so as not to sell beer to underage people. the little girl at the cash register is not collecting your name and address or plotting against you , take off the tin foil hat ,it's affecting your thinking...


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

Wolf mom said:


> The poor guy/gal at the checkout counter doesn't care who you are or where you live or your ugly picture, they just want to see your birth date because they'll get fired if they don't, and they need that job. Put your frustration in the correct place. B*tch to the people that made the rules.
> 
> I'm in my 70's and recently got carded. I laughed and thanked them....


I would argue that my frustration was at the exactly the right place at the checkout I was not rude to the the young attendant.
I hope that more people boycott this national chain and force closure in the small town that does not need it in the first place.
We have to draw a line somewhere or before long it will be illegal to purchase items above and beyond our ration. *Welcome to Socialism.*
Its the frog in boiling water and I will keep my tin foil hat on thank you Ticndig.

And FYI I have already had bank details compromised and lost about 500 dollars due to showing my ID at a large department store.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Were you able to purchase beer at another store?
If not, then aren't you the one that is missing out on the beer you wanted?
What's the point with that?


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> Were you able to purchase beer at another store?
> If not, then aren't you the one that is missing out on the beer you wanted?
> What's the point with that?


I just went somewhere else to buy a beer and as others have said I also homebrew. At other stores when they want my name address DL number etc for "warranty and bonus program" etc I just say no thank you and normally that is ok.

I'm not particularly religious but the bible got the part right about the end days people will not be able to buy or sell without the mark in hand or on forehead. China is probably a great early example in one of its largest cities cash and credit card can no longer be used only smartphone which somehow have a social credit score attached. Ill see if I can find the documentary and post.

If anyone here is ok with heading toward that future I pity you. Me like the stubborn PIA I am will not go willingly and will make a peaceful yet annoying point at every opportunity that presents.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

The person checking you out at the register will agree with you - you are making an annoying point (no matter how peaceful) that they have _no control_ over and are really - just annoying.

You want to indulge yourself, go ahead. If you really want to effect change, get involved on a local or state level.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

May your chains set lightly upon you.
Do as you wish Wolf mom.


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

damoc said:


> I just went somewhere else to buy a beer and as others have said I also homebrew. At other stores when they want my name address DL number etc for "warranty and bonus program" etc I just say no thank you and normally that is ok.
> 
> 
> I'm not particularly religious but the bible got the part right about the end days people will not be able to buy or sell without the mark in hand or on forehead. China is probably a great early example in one of its largest cities cash and credit card can no longer be used only smartphone which somehow have a social credit score attached. Ill see if I can find the documentary and post.
> ...



damoc;Technology is driving my husband and I bonkers. So as much as possible we stick with what we know and understand which is living with little money and growing our food. I know we are living in the end times which have been creeping along for many years now. Except now things are speeding up towards calamity and Jesus will intervene before the world destroys itself. Pity the day we are required to use a smartphone; it just won't be happening! I guess we better break up some more ground and plant more to feed the hungry neighbors because most of them are old too and don't understand technology and would starve if buying food depended on using a card or smartphone!


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Wolf mom said:


> The poor guy/gal at the checkout counter doesn't care who you are or where you live or your ugly picture, they just want to see your birth date because they'll get fired if they don't, and they need that job. Put your frustration in the correct place. B*tch to the people that made the rules.


Exactly. Nobody bothers to 'track' you if you pay cash for a 6-pack....they are simply trying to avoid the State giving them grief over selling to underage.

But there certainly IS plenty of creeping incrementalism around in lots of forms.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Jeez I am getting carded for senior discount now.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Pack Rat said:


> I don't shop for much, or often, but needing to go get a couple sheets of plywood for a spring fix-up project from the nearest centre of 'civlisation', I stopped by the grocery there for a couple items, among them a 6 pack of a of beer I last tasted 40 years ago. Needless to say, I know people who have more beer in a weekend than I have in the past couple decades, so when I got the the checkout and the girl there asked for ID, I thought she was joking. She wasn't. A "new requirement" that the woman in line behind me confirmed.
> 
> So now it isn't enough to look over 30 to buy beer, but some Authority needs to keep track of every Citizen who purchases it, from where, and how much. Next I will need ID to purchase chips with that beer, and soon after, to purchase any groceries at all, especially if I use cash. I'll need a Gov issued ID to buy plywood, or even enter a store. We'll be stopped on the street: "Where are your papers, citizen?"
> 
> ...


Misguided at best...
Because the casher was following the LAW (not 'Orders') that minimum wage casher is a 'War Criminal'?
I want aware the 7-11 declared war on anyone. 

Might want to check the facts about carrying cash, making deposits or withdraws...



TnAndy said:


> Exactly. Nobody bothers to 'track' you if you pay cash for a 6-pack....they are simply trying to avoid the State giving them grief over selling to underage.
> 
> But there certainly IS plenty of creeping incrementalism around in lots of forms.


Most come down from congress, but 50% won't regester to vote, 50% of registered voters don't vote (that's 75%),
That leaves 25% of voters making the decisions.
Usually bad decisions, the average run in Congress is 34 years.
That means the same people screwing us when Reagan was in office are still there...

This guy doesn't understand we live under the rule of law under the Constitutional process.
Maybe a book on the constitutional process is what he should have read...


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## prinellie (Mar 16, 2016)

Like the song ‘Slow Fade’. We have gone too far past the exit already. I don’t believe we can pull it back. It is far worse than most people know even now. And yep - I like my tin foil hat. Except I do my own homework and I know what I know. And when it all goes, some of you will be wishing you had one fit for you...


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

After the J. Edgar Hoover secret files, and before computers, laws were passed to keep information collection of people not under suspicion from being compiled.
That's easy to get around, no regulation on what private companies can collect, like so called credit reporting agencies.

I was sent my entire report by mistake, several hundred pages, from every phone ever registered in my name or at any address I ever used, it even had a pay as you go phone I bought when my cell quit.
My military record was mostly there, minus medical information & specific details of operations.

My internet provides were there, with codes for they websites I visit, and the number of times I visit. (Hope they had fun with the porn!)
It even had a category for 'Dark Web', which I don't know how to access.

Not my medical history, but my medical codes used to bill the insurance companies.
Nearly everyone that ever called me more than twice.
My discount club card numbers from the parts store & supermarket.
A crap ton of other stuff, including what I checked out at the library.

All the government has to do is order my entire file and they have virtually everything.
It cost my potential employer $145 to get everything, and since a security clearance was involved, they got everything, and by some mistake the disk got to me in my employee paperwork packet.

Since they know about my 'Super Saver' cards, I assume they can get my purchase history...
Why how many times I bought junk food would matter, but in Indianapolis one of the food stores identified drug dealers by how many baggies, batteries, drain cleaner , baking soda and twist ties they bought.
That actually made a stink nation wide about privacy issues.
(Moral, don't buy dope supplies with a super saver card for discounts)

While banks are required to report deposits or transfers over $10,000 some banks report as little as $3,000
Withdraw all you want, it's deposits & transfers that get reported.

Thanks to Edward Snowden we all know every phone call from-to and time/length of call is sent directly to NSA... (Meta Data)
We also know the two things NSA has the hardest time with is old fashioned FAXes & local calls on land lines...


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I withdrew twelve thousand dollars from savings last week. If I pay cash to my contractor he gives me ten percent off. The clerk asked for the last four of my social security number, and what I did for a living. I told him I was a male hooker, and that I needed the money for a sex change operation. He entered the information in the computer, and never blinked.


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## prinellie (Mar 16, 2016)

muleskinner2 said:


> I withdrew twelve thousand dollars from savings last week. If I pay cash to my contractor he gives me ten percent off. The clerk asked for the last four of my social security number, and what I did for a living. I told him I was a male hooker, and that I needed the money for a sex change operation. He entered the information in the computer, and never blinked.


Be ready for someone to come knocking on your door... and I don’t mean for your hooker services! 
The max you can take out or deposit without being questioned is 3,000 I believe now. Used to be 5 k. Soon they predict a cashless society so the govt can track everything you purchase


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Anyone who shows up at my door uninvited had better have a warrant. To get to my house you must get past two locked gates and my dogs.

A lot of business around here is conducted by barter. Firewood, moonshine, and pot are the three most common items. I didn't want to dip into my stash, (of firewood) so I paid cash.


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## prinellie (Mar 16, 2016)

muleskinner2 said:


> Anyone who shows up at my door uninvited had better have a warrant. To get to my house you must get past two locked gates and my dogs.
> 
> A lot of business around here is conducted by barter. Firewood, moonshine, and pot are the three most common items. I didn't want to dip into my stash, (of firewood) so I paid cash.


I understand completely - I just wanted you to know what could happen. We take money out of atm daily for.... whatever.... that way we have small amounts and receipts so we don’t trigger anything


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

In Ohio the clerk is required to verify the age of any alcohol purchasers if they have concerns about the age. They are also required to refuse alcohol sales if they believe minors will be drinking it. Yes, a lot of customers yell at clerks for doing their job but no one cares that the clerk can get in more trouble than the minor drinking the beer. Blame the legislators and politicians, also the drunk drivers and kids who die from drinking too much. But do not blame the clerks, they are doing their job and following the law. You don't want to show id, that's fine, but do not blame the clerk who has to ask because of their employer's policy or the state law.

https://www.com.ohio.gov/documents/liqr_ServerTraining.pdf


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

Just logged back on after a long hiatus due to my annoyance with this thread and some posters who seem a little less polite than I remember when I started here at HT. To get back to the original topic of incrementalism I have since had to provide ID to purchase not just beer but also car tires and spray paint very soon you will not be able to buy anything without it being recorded.
PS I don't know where I ever said I was yelling at a clerk.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

No, you never said you yelled at a clerk. My daughter got yelled at for asking for ID from a woman who was buying alcohol then trying to get her possibly underage son (??) to pay for it right around the time this thread was originally started. I may be remembering incorrectly but I think there once were more posts in this thread, might have been in response to that, IDK. I have been carded for spray paint but the last time the clerk just entered the "over 18" box on the check-out screen. 

You had to show ID for tires? Did you purchase a warranty for those tires? I know the auto parts stores ask your name and address for warranty information on life-time warranty parts. Not so they can keep track of your vehicles but so they can replace the parts if/when they give out because you own the vehicle for 17 years and need the alternator replaced for the 5th time. And if you have lost your receipt they can look it up.


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Isnt it funny. They want you to produce ID for so many things nowadays...even cold meds. 

But not voting. If want to actually prove someone is who they say they to vote...well thats racist.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

Yes the tire purchase was for "warranty and recall" however I fit my own tires and end up waiving warranty anyway and I could not just refuse to show and let them record and copy. My solution is just to start buying elsewhere. I found much cheaper tires that even seemed to be of better quality than the Goodyears I was buying from Walmart.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Sam's Club asked for my membership card to repair the flat they didn't repair, only because it's free for members. I don't know if hubby gave the place that did repair it his id or not. 

Funny, never thought too much about having to show id for stuff. I will from now on though.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

prinellie said:


> Be ready for someone to come knocking on your door... and I don’t mean for your hooker services!
> The max you can take out or deposit without being questioned is 3,000 I believe now. Used to be 5 k. Soon they predict a cashless society so the govt can track everything you purchase



Nobody will come knocking. What happens is the bank files a CTR....currency transfer report....to the feds, that no doubt get filed somewhere never to be seen by human eyes unless looking backward at some crime. They would then dig them out to follow the money.

It is not illegal to withdraw or deposit cash of any amount. Banks don't like big withdrawals because they only keep enough cash on hand for 'normal' flow of cash, and the last thing they would want is for someone to try to cash a check after you hit them for a large cash withdrawal, and not have the cash to give that customer.....very bad for confidence. 

Banks CAN set the rules on withdrawals (amount, notice ahead of time, etc) because once you deposit your funds in a bank, THEY ARE NO LONGER YOURS......YOU become an unsecured lender to the bank ! Frank-Dodd Act put that language in banking laws....so even though you have an account with your name on it and some figures showing the amount you think you have on deposit, that amount actually belongs to the bank, and thus, they can set whatever rules they want ( Just like they did in Crete) for giving it back to you.


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