# When to Beat a Woman ?



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Perhaps this should be in the homesteading families. 
There is a young lady at school who is taken to punching ,stabbing with a pencil and kicking in the groin my son. 
I did not know this until recently when he pushed her away from him and she stumbled and hit her head on the lockers. 
Two problems have arisen from this it was witnessed by a young man who has both told the principal and is now calling my son a woman beater. 
The principal called me in to discuss the situation with me. 
And by discuss the situation he meant to tell me how my son was going to be suspended for fighting with a girl. 
I pointed out that my son merely defended himself and then I told my son in front of the principal that if she ever appears to advance on him to assault him like that again he should punch her down and stomp the life out of her. 

The principle seems to feel that I am unreasonable I pointed out that punishing someone for defending their life is unreasonable and that if my son had to undergo one moment of punishment
I would be suing both him personally and the school system. 
I don’t see were stabbing someone with a pencil is any different than stabbing them with a knife
And kicking him in the groin could have disasterus effect on his ability to reproduce. 

My son and this girl have a history they have been boyfriend and girlfriend often on for several years. 
He finally got tired of the way she was treating him about six months ago and refused to go back to dating her. 
Apparently her tactics since then Have become more and more violent I have told him that I think that she just really wants him back but I believe that the tactics she is using to get him back really reinforce his decision not to date her again
Am I handling this wrong? Should I have told him to beat the snot out of the tattletale that went to the teacher and is calling him a woman beater?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Am I handling this wrong?


Do you really need to ask?



AmericanStand said:


> I told my son in front of the principal that if she ever appears to advance on him to assault him like that again he should punch her down and stomp the life out of her.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

You are right I knew I should told him to beat the lieing little snitch too. 
It’s a poor excuse but his father is a teacher and he is the best basketball player at the school and I was hoping to avoid some problems


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

You need to have a long conversation with the girl's parents.

Lay-out the timeline of all that you have observed.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nip, nip, nip this in the bud! Your son should have simply put some distance between himself and the girl. The more the better. Explain to him that life ain't fair, ain't never been, ain't never gonna be. No, he is not allowed to "defend himself" against a girl. Life stinks, hold your nose as you walk passed the smelliest parts.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I expect the rules in the school are report not retaliation. I don't expect he will because you call it snitching.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I called it snitching because it was an inaccurate report and apparently he saw the entire event. 
He has admitted as much


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Nip, nip, nip this in the bud! Your son should have simply put some distance between himself and the girl. The more the better. Explain to him that life ain't fair, ain't never been, ain't never gonna be. No, he is not allowed to "defend himself" against a girl. Life stinks, hold your nose as you walk passed the smelliest parts.


 Like you say life is not fair he is in junior high school and does not have the option of putting distance between himself and this woman. She has the ability to sneak up behind him numerous times a day and attack him.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> You are right I knew I should told him to beat the lieing little snitch too.
> It’s a poor excuse but his father is a teacher and he is the best basketball player at the school and I was hoping to avoid some problems


 LOL.
I like the way you think, but I doubt that's the reply he was expecting.

But in all seriousness, our first thoughts aren't necessarily the best ones.

Whooh boy.
You're taking me back down memory lane to my own youth.
When I was about 8, I was getting regular beatdowns form a girl in my class that could have whooped almost any boy in school.
I thought self defense was appropriate but I found out I was wrong, after a short meeting with my dad who wasn't pleased with what the school reported on my behavior.
His answer to your question was unconditional - Never!
I was convinced immediately afterwards. 

This situation requires creative thinking.

Your son is now available for a new girlfriend, correct?
Are any of them in the potential pool, ready and able to defend his honor?
It may not be the best solution, but perhaps if she was told by another girl that she needed to stay away and move on with her life, your son's life would become less troublesome.

Just a suggestion.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

farmrbrown said:


> LOL.
> I like the way you think, but I doubt that's the reply he was expecting.
> 
> But in all seriousness, our first thoughts aren't necessarily the best ones.
> ...


So, you are suggesting farming out the beat down.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Like you say life is not fair he is in junior high school and does not have the option of putting distance between himself and this woman. She has the ability to sneak up behind him *numerous times today* and attack him.


They were in school today?


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

HDRider said:


> So, you are suggesting farming out the beat down.


He Isa farmer


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

There is a reason I titled this when to beat a woman and not when to beat a lady. My mother quite clearly explained it to me at one point. “You will never hit a lady “ and from the way she said it to me I believed her! On the other hand she pointed out to me that The female who had chosen to beat on me had proved in doing that she was not a lady!


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I feel for you and your son. That's a real crappy position to be in. Can he do anything to quiet her anger?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Date her again.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Given your solution and the manner in which it's been handled, I would suggest that your son should be getting time off from school fairly soon.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Do you have a better way to deal with it ?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

HDRider said:


> So, you are suggesting farming out the beat down.


No, although I can see how that might be interpreted that way.
I was suggesting that females can often get the point across to each other _without_ resorting to physical means.
The males of a species tend to be more narrow minded when considering our options.
IOW, we're quick to use force first and not much else.


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## montysky (Aug 21, 2006)

First she isn't a woman but a Girl, go to this little girls parents home and talk with them be polite but firm. 2nd have your wife talk with someone at the school (only if talking with the parents didn't work) after what went down with you last time that bridge could be burnt for you. Good luck.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

wr said:


> I would suggest that your son should be getting time off from school fairly soon.


I think they have schools in prison.


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

My grandson dated a girl in high school that he really liked. Only one problem. She was very jealous and had a horrible temper. They would break up and get back together. After high school he moved to a city and roomed with two guy friends. He also found a sane girl friend. Thanks to Face Book these young people were aware of each other. Old girl shows up and raises the roof because she is jealous. She attacks like a savage cat and scratches my grandson. Knowing better than to hit her he wrapped his arms around her and put her outside the apt door and locked it. Then he called me!

I could hear her kicking the door and screaming. He wanted to know what to do? I told him if she kept the noise up someone would call the police and he would probably go to jail because he is 6ft 3in and she is a foot shorter and no one would believe she could be so violent! I suggested standing behind the door and letting her in keeping the door between him and her. Then tell her I wanted to talk to her. 
She hit the room exploding but he stayed calm and she took the phone and talked to me. I convinced her to call her friend to come for her. Later I talked to her again and she was able to move on with her life.

A couple of girl friends later both violent women he finally met a lovely girl who does not have a temper and is very sane. She is his life partner and they have started a family.

It is unfortunate that men always get blamed for domestic violence before blame is established simply because they are bigger and stronger. Some men are guilty and some are not but get authorities involved the man will have to leave. 
In school boys get blamed guilty or not and do not dare to defend against a girl attacking them. In most schools there are cameras everywhere and a quick review will show who the problem is.

I would advise any boy being attacked by a girl to restrain her if she is trying to scratch him or kick him. Can't restrain her then duck, dodge and run! Never hit a girl or woman though as that is considered unequal power because the males are stronger. Run right to the principal's office and tell them their security cameras need to be viewed!

Girls can be bullies same as boys can be. It is a problem here in JR High and High Schools and some times even in elementary schools. Verbal bullying can be annoying and make you mad but it doesn't hurt physically. The way to handle verbal bulling is to ignore the person, turn your back to them and walk away. A bully will stop if they don't get a reaction. If attacked physically by either a girl or boy either restrain them or run. Thank goodness for security cameras in schools ! Who would have ever thought such a thing would become necessary! If there aren't cameras in your school you might suggest the school board have them installed. Cameras don't lie about who started the fight he or she.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

In schools, it seems the attackee always gets in trouble for defending themself while the attacker gets off scott free. 

I have doubts about grabbing the girl and restraining her to keep her from injuring him. She could claim sexual harasment which would get him in even more trouble. Telling the school personnel about the attacks would probably be pointless. It doesn't work for anyone else so why should your son's case be different? 

If he has a phone he can record the encounters himself. If phones aren't allowed he could get one of those small voice recorders and have it running whenever he is between classes.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

You and your son are at the point where it seems that no matter what is done their will be repercussions. So the problem is to figure out which action will stop or slow this little gal down and that you all can handle the side affects from whats done. 

It seems obvious with the little info available that the school is NOT doing its job. So what ever path you all chose it seems that you will want the lack of performance by the school to be in evidence. 

It would be surprising if a conversation with the little gals parents would be of any use. Also very likely to come back to haunt you. I personally would make sure any conversations with them was on record and done in front of proper witness. 

Finding a solution with no side affects will be a challenge. Good luck.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

I always said if a lady hit me, she instantly loses her status as a lady.
what ever happened to women wanting to be equal ?
This girl sounds like she shouldn't be allowed in any public place without supervision. She is at least mildly insane.
hard as it may be, do not attack and defend. get away, go to the principal and show the pencil marks. 
then tell the principal that if her attacks do not stop, he will defend himself. You more or less did this.
all your son can do is avoid her, kind of difficult if she sneaks up behind him.
I would like to hear more womens' comments about this..


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I'd also add one more suggestion in case it was overlooked.
In light of the difficulties of today's school environments and the touchiness of this one in particular, I would also have a frank discussion with the principal/administration and ask exactly what would _they suggest_ your son do the next time it happens?
Then wait patiently for a clear and precise answer.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I think they have schools in prison.


By far one of the most disgusting things you have ever said.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Ex was pretty radical. If I was ever going to hit a woman it would have been her. She threw glass ashtrays at me and pots and pans and a few times tried to hit me but wasn't fast enough. Most of the time for working overtime (because I had to have been cheating after all [yeah, they all paid OT I guess]). 

Nah, life is too short so she hit the pavement real quick. 

Get it documented. Do nothing else. These days it would even be hard to defend yourself from the same sex. I would though because it's the right thing to do. They wont learn any other way.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Here is the thing if it was just a little girl punching him I’d deal with it differently .
But this girl is doing some stuff that can cause permanent damage or death. Not just silly teen stuff. 
It’s the pencil stabbing that set me off .
I can kill with a pencil,
Bet you can too. 
And here is this 14 year old girl with out any training going at it willy nilly. 
Changing her grip a inch can be deadly
Changing her impact point can be deadly 
She’s just a kid trying to get attention but what if as she’s sneaking up planning to jab him a quarter inch deep in the shoulder she slips and stabs him a inch through the jugular?
Face it this isn’t a wild improbability. If it goes on long enough it’s nearly a probability. 
From what I understand she pretty much jabs wildly. She’s not calm or steady on her feet. 
So does he have to lose a eye or a ear for the school to take this seriously?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> Here is the thing if it was just a little girl punching him I’d deal with it differently .
> But this girl is doing some stuff that can cause permanent damage or death. Not just silly teen stuff.
> It’s the pencil stabbing that set me off .
> I can kill with a pencil,
> ...


Call the cops, charge her with attempted murder if you feel that threatened, but dont instruct your son to commit crimes that can get him locked up for decades. That is not acceptable. He can avoid her, have a restraining order put on her but he can not give her a beating in the parking lot. Pushing her into lockers etc is not right and Definately not legal. She too is in danger, she could easily slip, fall, hit her head and die. Happens just that way sometimes. They both need to keep hands to themselves.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

The school is not going to take this seriously. Have his friends who hang out with him be on the look out and get any contact on video. If she tries anything else that could be considered a physical attack, call the police and show them the video. If he engages with her physically you know she is not going to back down and it's going to get ugly. They will be far less likely to listen to him at that point. It will just be two folks going at it and since he is the guy, he will get blamed. He needs to be ready to block without pushing and hitting. Yell and get everyone looking and getting their phones out. Make the whole school see she is insane and your son is a gentleman. Funny how groups of young people work. You want her labeled as the nut, not your son. that's what will stop her, peer pressure!


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

If she is assaulting him then id tell my son next time he should only use his hands to protect himself and let her beat the tar out if him. Then id call the police and file charges. 

And tell him to get video or audio if possible next time it starts.

This is unacceptable behavior from any young person regardless of gender. She needs to learn real world consequences.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> So does he have to lose a eye or a ear for the school to take this seriously?


File a police report.
There's no need for a lot of melodrama.
Telling him to beat her and others is foolish.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

For what it's werth, you might tell him to quit kissing girls til he has a license to fight with one. It's been my experierence they get plum mean and nasty when you quit! This is especially true if they find out yer kissin another one instead of them. Thinking he might already know that. Even us possum eatin hillbillys know you never strike a lady..... That ya ain't married to! Better be careful then even.... Ya gotta sleep sometime! Does he know he can bleed out in under a minute if she cuts his throat properly? I dunno bout where y'all live but around here there is what we call "sink holes". Some may only be four or five feet across but if you toss a rock down you can hear it rattle and bounce fer two or three minutes! Just sayin.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> File a police report.
> There's no need for a lot of melodrama.
> Telling him to beat her and others is foolish.


exacalutely.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

AmericanStand said:


> Here is the thing if it was just a little girl punching him I’d deal with it differently .
> But this girl is doing some stuff that can cause permanent damage or death. Not just silly teen stuff.


I was a junior in high school. The first day in English class I had a girl sit down in front of me. She was pretty, and would turn around and look at me and smile often during the period. Like a fool I started engaging in conversation with her.
Within a week, I would return to my desk from up front, the bathroom, etc and find my books all over the floor, my ink pens broken in half and/or papers torn up. She would laugh about and make snarky remarks, then later she might flirt or push me or punch me in the arm with a closed fist, hard. She had a crush on me and I never saw the signs because I never saw signs like that before.
Telling her to stop made it worse.
Avoiding her made it worse.
The day I stood up in class and almost drew back to knock her out was the day I knew I had lost control. The english teacher, as well as the guidance counselor, intervened and she was moved to a different hour. It stopped.
Later on she married a guy from our school. She used to chase him around the house with a knife, stood in the yard throwing dinner plates at him like frisbees, tried to suffocate him with a pillow in his sleep.
The guy's mother hated her and told her she was no good for her son.
So, during a spring rain one evening her house caught fire and burned to the ground....
There but by the grace of God are we...


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> File a police report.
> There's no need for a lot of melodrama.
> Telling him to beat her and others is foolish.


It’s stupid to tell someone to call the cops when their life it’s going to end in 30 seconds....


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

I have noticed that this behavior is a function of family culture. If they see violence at home they accept it as normal. Kids react in school pretty much as they would at home. In today's world klds are forming very close relationships at very early ages. Romantic intrigue ungoverned by mature and reasoned intellect is dangerous. The kid will have to work his way out of this one, but tell him not to get too close to a woman until he (or she) is a bit older. Ideally, every boy should be issued a forty five year old woman at puberty.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Did you guys notice I didn’t send him off to hunt her down. 
just to defend himself. 
“ if she ever appears to advance on him to assault him like that again ”


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> It’s stupid to tell someone to call the cops when their life it’s going to end in 30 seconds....


Calling the cops now means it is on the record in case he has to defend himself.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> I was a junior in high school. The first day in English class I had a girl sit down in front of me. She was pretty, and would turn around and look at me and smile often during the period. Like a fool I started engaging in conversation with her.
> Within a week, I would return to my desk from up front, the bathroom, etc and find my books all over the floor, my ink pens broken in half and/or papers torn up. She would laugh about and make snarky remarks, then later she might flirt or push me or punch me in the arm with a closed fist, hard. She had a crush on me and I never saw the signs because I never saw signs like that before.
> Telling her to stop made it worse.
> Avoiding her made it worse.
> ...


Ahhhh yes! The good old teen years. Learning about the opposite sex, the games played, personal relationships, broken hearts..... What fun life can be!


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Oxankle said:


> Ideally, every boy should be issued a forty five year old woman at puberty.


 That’s the way it used to work. 
Young fertile women married older established men who could support them and their kids then soon passed away . That left older established women to train younger lovers.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Abusive human beings come in all genders. They are basically bullies. There is only one thing that bullies understand, and that is a beatdown. Now that doesn't mean that a beatdown has to come in the form of physical violence. At that age starting a rumor about someones lack of personal hygiene get a bully enraged enough to act out violently in front of authoritative witnesses. If you can break them down in front of people everyone will ostracize them, and then the solitude will further wear them down. But, at that age, if your son was able to mentally manipulate a bully to the point of self destruction, it would concern me more than if he resorted to physical violence to make them choose another target. 

These bullies that get the beatdown without physical violence nowadays, those are the ones that end up shooting up schools, was much better back in the days when a rap on the nose made them choose another target, until they were targeting the weakest links and the authorities saw them for what they were.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> It’s stupid to tell someone to call the cops when their life it’s going to end in 30 seconds....


You're not dead.
He's not dead.
Call now.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

LOL, American Stand; not so very long ago, either, eh?


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> That’s the way it used to work.
> Young fertile women married older established men who could support them and their kids then soon passed away . That left older established women to train younger lovers.


There still be cougars prowling the woods. We read about them in the news from time to time, when the light shines on them during their acts of natural predation on prey that is deemed too young by statute.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I’d like to point out that he was being stabbed with a pencil when he shoved her away. 
he did not mean to shove her into a locker but she stumbled and fell into it
I got a Telya I think that is a pretty well measured and considered action for a 14-year-old under attack. 
But the fact that she stumbled and fell from such a simple thing is part of what has me worried about her doing serious harm.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

It frustrates me that the school will not take this more seriously it seems to me like the school could make it very clear to this young lady the situation so that I don’t have to go to the cops and ruin a 14-year-old girls life over stupid high school stuff


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

Oxankle said:


> I have noticed that this behavior is a function of family culture. If they see violence at home they accept it as normal. Kids react in school pretty much as they would at home. In today's world klds are forming very close relationships at very early ages. Romantic intrigue ungoverned by mature and reasoned intellect is dangerous. The kid will have to work his way out of this one, but tell him not to get too close to a woman until he (or she) is a bit older. Ideally, every boy should be issued a forty five year old woman at puberty.


Oh yes because a 45 year old woman wants to go to prison for a child sex crime. Good grief. Get a grip. It's not common and it's gross, whether you are talking about such a relationship for women or men. 

As for the girl beating up your son....I kind of feel like part of the story is missing. Teens have a knack for making themselves the victim. Maybe a meeting between you, your son, the girl, her parents and the school superintendent is called for. Maybe add a police officer so he can explain consequences. If it were me, I'd pull my son out of school until it's straightened out. I wouldn't take the chance of him becoming permanently injured or the chance of him commiting a crime to protect himself.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

“ Him committing a crime to protect himself“

Isn’t it sad that such a phrase could accurately be used in our day and age?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I tried to tell both sides of the story she likes the attention of the boys she does not like that my son has quit being at her beck and call is no longer her toy to be played with 
that seems to upset her


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> It’s stupid to tell someone to call the cops when their life it’s going to end in 30 seconds....


Good time to exit... Stage right!


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I’m not trying to say that this girl was every bit of evil and while she’s a very sweet little girl very cute and can be quite polite
But there’s something wrong in her head and her relationship with men .it may be because she is one of the very very very few girls in her class. 
She is used to lots of attention from the boys and yet she chose to start prostituting herself in about the fourth grade. 
Get your mind out of the gutter she did things like kiss the boys or show them her panties in return for using their phone or having them buy her a Coke
But I don’t think that’s normal behavior for a fourth grader none of the other or girls in that class do that type of thing. 
I’m quite proud of my son for voluntarily withdrawing from the situation she is the cutest girl in class so I’m sure it took a lot of willpower and probably more bad episodes that I want to hear about


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Good time to exit... Stage right!


 For you and me in normal life yes, for an eighth grader in the middle of school it’s not an option


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Your opinions about the girl may be true but they also may not. You are the adult. Talk to her parents. Get a meeting with all of you together. Explain what you believe is happening. Listen to her opinion of what is happening. Be proactive not reactive.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

It would be all the difference in the world if it was another male...


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> I’m not trying to say that this girl was every bit of evil and while she’s a very sweet little girl very cute and can be quite polite
> But there’s something wrong in her head and her relationship with men .it may be because she is one of the very very very few girls in her class.
> She is used to lots of attention from the boys and yet she chose to start prostituting herself in about the fourth grade.
> Get your mind out of the gutter she did things like kiss the boys or show them her panties in return for using their phone or having them buy her a Coke
> ...


everything about this post is creepy.

if you are in fear for your child's life you should have already gone to the authorities - school doesn't listen - involve the police
expecting a child to "defend" themselves and "stomp the life out of" another human is disgusting.


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

1. switch schools
2. homeschool
3. present the problem to the school board at an OPEN meeting
4. report this to the cops so it is on record
5. SSS...just kidding


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> For you and me in normal life yes, for an eighth grader in the middle of school it’s not an option


Must be a mighty small building!


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

OK I have calmed down a little bit since the initial post in my new plan is as follows
The instructions to defend himself remain I mean it is unreasonable for my sons life to be ruined because of this.
But remember those instructions are to defend not to retaliate
However I fully expect that he will be attacked again without being able to defend himself prior to the attack. 
So instead of letting it go for months as it apparently has before on the very next attack he is to get a hold of me and we will go see the principal she will either get a multi-day suspension or I will call the cops out
I am going to let the principal deal with discussing the stuff with her parents
I think that would be better than it coming from me. 
If there is another pencil or crotch attack after the suspension no matter what the principal says I am definitely calling the cops .


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

RKinTN
LOL, I was proposing an "issue" which presupposes legalizing such relationships. Obviously now the boy must wait until he reaches the age of consent. (And if she wishes to stay out of the public eye, so must she because l4 year-old boys are not sufficiently discreet to maintain silence.) One of the things boys must learn is "Never kiss and tell."

Never, even after marriage, should a man discuss his sex life with his associates. I have learned, however, that not all women are so reticent. A colleague, working one day in the principals office at a high school, overheard a group of girls outside the office window discussing their boyfriend's endowments. High school girls, a half dozen or so sitting at a bench below the window!! (And that must have been 35 or 40 years ago!)


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Must be a mighty small building!


It is but more than the fact that it is a small building it is due to the rules and structures of junior high , his mobility is limited.
You are expected to be in class then from that class to a different class at certain times and then in another class. 
His grade has two classes of about 13 kids each he can’t get too far away from her.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> expecting a child to "defend" themselves and "stomp the life out of" another human is disgusting.


 Really ?
How do you deal with vermin?


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

As an adult, I have never hit anyone even though a guy with a gun (told him to do it) threatened to shoot me and several guys threatened to beat me up and just old them that would be a bad idea. That gave them time to think about what they wanted to do and didn't.
Hitting a woman is a very bad idea. Like other said, document, report and have a si down with the parents as well as the school.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> It is but more than the fact that it is a small building it is due to the rules and structures of junior high , his mobility is limited.
> You are expected to be in class then from that class to a different class at certain times and then in another class.
> His grade has two classes of about 13 kids each he can’t get too far away from her.


I managed to avoid a couple thugs for several years when I was in school. This must be quite a gal!


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> It’s stupid to tell someone to call the cops when their life it’s going to end in 30 seconds....


That's a little over the top right? Get a restraining order. Cost 50 bucks and sends a message to ---the school---the parents ---and maybe even the girl. 

There is something else going on here we cant see. She has learned this be behavior from someone. Maybe her father or mother. By doing this, you could save the life's of all of them so no one needs to die.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

If I get a restraining order because of the size of the school she will not be able to attend. 
I hate to elevate things to that level until I have to


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

I have not read all the replies, but you should have asked the principal what he planned to do about the bullying your son experienced, and what would happen to the girl if it continued.
I'd advise him to go to the nearest teacher if it happens again and report her. Simply have him state the facts, and now there is a record of it.
He is now a victim of assault, and shouldn't be expected to just suck it up. I wouldn't give a care if she can't continue to go to the same school at this point.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I managed to avoid a couple thugs for several years when I was in school. This must be quite a gal!


She is assigned to the same grade unit he is so they have all the same classes together. 
I think I may ask for her to be reassigned


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> It frustrates me that the school will not take this more seriously


Call the police.
Waiting is pointless.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> If I get a restraining order because of the size of the school she will not be able to attend.
> I hate to elevate things to that level until I have to


But she will get help and so will your son.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Call the police.
> Waiting is pointless.


Men of honor do not call the police that’s even worse than hitting a woman


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Men of honor do not call the police that’s even worse than hitting a woman


Then you aren't taking it seriously either.
If he takes your advice, someone will call the police and he will end up in jail.

But it makes no difference to me, so I will leave you to your own devices.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> Men of honor do not call the police that’s even worse than hitting a woman


A man of honor would work towards getting this girl help instead of getting mad and reacting. That is not teaching your son properly. You have admitted you posted that first post as a reaction.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> Men of honor do not call the police that’s even worse than hitting a woman


Seems your concerned that your son could possibly by accident do something that would result in legal issues. According to the post the school and the girls parents have not stoped the problem and do not seem to view it as a major problem. Something needs to be done sooner than later to get their attention and get them to take action that works. Why in the world would you have a problem getting the bases covered right now by reporting the problem to the police? 

Honor, justice, and legal often times has little to do with each other. Waiting and having things go really bad and then the law getting involved is a high risk.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

painterswife said:


> A man of honor would work towards getting this girl help instead of getting mad and reacting. That is not teaching your son properly. You have admitted you posted that first post as a reaction.


So you would not try going through the school and talking to the parents first, you would escalate directly to the police to start with?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> So you would not try going through the school and talking to the parents first, you would escalate directly to the police to start with?


The police would be last but I would deal with the school and her parents at the same time. Your son dated her, you should know her parents already. It should not be hard to arrange a meeting.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Redlands Okie said:


> Why in the world would you have a problem getting the bases covered right now by reporting the problem to the police?
> 
> Honor, justice, and legal often times has little to do with each other. Waiting and having things go really bad and then the law getting involved is a high risk.


 Because I do not trust the police as far as I can tell for most of them their only point in life is to ruin other people’s lives. 
taking any problem like this to the police seems to be creating a far bigger problem for some one then simply getting there but stomped.


Yes I have settled down some and I am trying to figure out how to work things out best for everybody


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

painterswife said:


> The police would be last but I would deal with the school and her parents at the same time. Your son dated her, you should know her parents already. It should not be hard to arrange a meeting.


 As small as the town is I should know her parents but for some reason I don’t and he dated her in junior high school in a town with 13 kids in the class dating amounts to walking up and down the halls with each other I think ,maybe sitting together in the cafeteria


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> Men of honor do not call the police that’s even worse than hitting a woman


Men of honor protect their children from any threat, be it from a girl child or a boy child.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

doozie said:


> Men of honor protect their children from any threat, be it from a girl child or a boy child.


Or the police.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> Or the police.


Well, they may knock on your door if she keeps getting shoved against lockers....go to the school principal Monday, get a plan from the school on how THEY plan to address the problems you son is having with the girl.
If teachers know, they can keep an eye out for any trouble in the halls, keep them separated in class, etc.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> Really ?
> How do you deal with vermin?


 I understand your anger and fear, but two wrongs really don't make a right.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

What wrongs ?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

doozie said:


> Well, they may knock on your door if she keeps getting shoved against lockers....go to the school principal Monday, get a plan from the school on how THEY plan to address the problems you son is having with the girl.
> If teachers know, they can keep an eye out for any trouble in the halls, keep them separated in class, etc.


 She didn’t get shoved into a locker she got shoved away from the person she was attacking it was her stupid choice to fall into the locker


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I see lots of excuses and little proactive behaviour. You may believe the school or police may not help but all you are teaching your son by saying that is to react instead of working through the problem. I don't see a good result with that attitude.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Not my fault you refuse to see.
Did you read my post where I laid out my current plan of action?
If you have a better plan I will consider it


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> If you have a better plan I will consider it


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Police bad! Stomp the life out of her good! I think I'm starting to get the picture.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> Men of honor do not call the police that’s even worse than hitting a woman


Oh Lordy, here comes the "real men don't" crap. If your sons life is in danger be a real man and give her the beating you seem to want to. Me? I'd not give it a moments worry. If your boy can't defend himself against a little girl without getting physical he's not much man.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

tomorrow it will be day 3 of this thread. 
Nothing has been done in the form of any positive action.
Lots of talk..
I am wondering if this actually happened to the son at all ??


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> If I get a restraining order because of the size of the school she will not be able to attend.
> I hate to elevate things to that level until I have to


Your son's life vs her reputation, I wouldn't have to hesitate before deciding which course of action to take.
One thing about juvenile charges, once the perp turns 18 the records are sealed and forgotten.

Schools have a policy of non-interferrence. They seem to not make a move to protect a student unless required by law enforcement. I worked with a woman who's granddaughter was repeatedly harassed and attacked by a group of other girls. Despite repeated meetings with the school personnel, the attacks continued with increasing violence. One day the grand got caught in the bathroom with the bully girls. They beat her until she was unconscious and left her on the bathroom floor. School threatened to expell the grand. Gma called the police and the bully girls were charged and removed from the school.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Perhaps this should be in the homesteading families.
> There is a young lady at school who is taken to punching ,stabbing with a pencil and kicking in the groin my son.
> I did not know this until recently when he pushed her away from him and she stumbled and hit her head on the lockers.
> Two problems have arisen from this it was witnessed by a young man who has both told the principal and is now calling my son a woman beater.
> ...





AmericanStand said:


> You are right I knew I should told him to beat the lieing little snitch too.
> It’s a poor excuse but his father is a teacher and he is the best basketball player at the school and I was hoping to avoid some problems


AND... Here we go...

1. The ONLY option you discuss, and taught to your son is to FIGHT.
You told the kid to stomp the life out of a girl, beat the 'Snitch',

2. But YOU know you will go to jail, so you threatened the principal & school with legal action.

So, you managed to send even more mixed signals to your son...

And I'm sure this will bounce off you too,
What the kid needs is professional help since he's setting a pattern, encouraged by his father, to beat woman and anyone YOU deem unworthy (snitch), etc.

You son won't be a juvenile forever, and two things are going to be rough on him.
The first is when he tries this crap when his victim isn't helpless.
This can get him badly injured, even killed.
Not everyone is some local and don't really care about lawyer threats, that's even if you know who they are, when he's not in school, you don't know who he's going to run into...

The second is when he winds up in jail for beating, or maybe killing women, or someone smaller.
At least you won't have to worry about him being suspended, they don't give days off in prison for bad behavior...

Prisons are full of the children of bad parenting, you need to decide what you show the son, and how you handle the situation. Taking his lumps now might do a lot more good for his future.
Making excuses and making threats to shield him has an experation date, it's exactly midnight on his 18th birthday...


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## Tobster (Feb 24, 2009)

Since you are out of options and the situation is so dire, put your house up for sale and move to another community. An adolescent junior high student has put you in a corner with no way out. What other choice do you have?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

JeepHammer said:


> AND... Here we go...
> 
> 1. The ONLY option you discuss, and taught to your son is to FIGHT.
> You told the kid to stomp the life out of a girl, beat the 'Snitch',
> ...


 Wow jump right in and make up a lot of lies.
So let me ask you mister jeep hammer. What would you do if somebody walked up and stabbed you? What would you do the second time it happened? What would you do the third time?
I thought I made it quite clear this that this kid is well mannered and quite the peaceful giant. But this girl and the school system are taking advantage of that and putting his life in danger.
So again Mr.jeephammer let me ask what do you do when somebody tries to stab you?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Tobster said:


> Since you are out of options and the situation is so dire, put your house up for sale and move to another community. An adolescent junior high student has put you in a corner with no way out. What other choice do you have?


 Beats me what you’re talking about. I’m not in the corner without any options I’ve got a lot of them. 
Your first option may be to wimp out and run away but not all of us were raised that way


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Tobster said:


> Since you are out of options and the situation is so dire, put your house up for sale and move to another community. An adolescent junior high student has put you in a corner with no way out. What other choice do you have?


He lives in Illinois, so he can't move.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> He lives in Illinois, so he can't move.


That's a shame. If he could move to Colorado the law might help. https://kdvr.com/2016/11/02/11-year-old-arrested-after-pencil-stabbing-at-colorado-springs-school/


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> What wrongs ?


The fact that I have to answer this makes me wonder how much of this story is fabricated...

wrong #1 - your son is attacked by this girl more than once.
wrong #2 - the suggested stomping of life.

jeesh.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I am amazed that anyone feels like defending yourself is a “wrong”.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

If the boy is in only the 8th grade, he should not be required to "handle" this situation. 
That is what parents are for.
Do your job.
You have plenty of time to do it instead of playing games online.


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## Tobster (Feb 24, 2009)

AmericanStand said:


> Beats me what you’re talking about. I’m not in the corner without any options I’ve got a lot of them.
> Your first option may be to wimp out and run away but not all of us were raised that way


My response was tongue in cheek intended to demonstrate the absurdity of the situation. You were given several useful, simple suggestions and you found an obstacle with each one that prevents you from acting. You come across as someone running around with their hair on fire and the problem is no more than children behaving badly toward each other. I am beginning to wonder if the OP is not also in junior high.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

To a certain extent you’re right.

my first reaction to being attacked is to kill three generations burn their homes and salt the earth. 

But you’ll notice after a little bit I calm down and I am willing to take a more measured approach. 
But that said I still believe in defending myself and my family from permanent damage at whatever the cost.
If you attack me with a deadly weapon you cannot expect I need to deal with it with a few words. 
So that advice still stands if he is attacked with a deadly weapon he should respond by making the attacker incapable of pursuing that attack. 
Remember this is a kid in school who really doesn’t have the option of running away ,who must continually turn his back on the attacker .what realistic option is there to ensure his safety and deal with something like that?

remember the authority’s have been made aware of the situation and allowed to deal with it.
If that route works my son will not have to deal with this. 
Obviously if it doesn’t he has to defend himself. 
If he has to deal with it again we will escalate the situation to bringing in the police. The attacks are on record with the school as is the other child’s punishment so there is a paper trail at this point
I am really hoping that the in school suspension will be enough to make this girl wake up I wish the principal had made it an out of school suspension so that the parents would be aware of the situation. Perhaps they are, from the in school suspension
I really didn’t want to involve the cops and give this child a record
for what can be a minor thing. 
But one of the things that I have learned in this thread or perhaps was pointed out to think about was the fact there may be some thing wrong at home
I am deeply conflicted on that point .
I hate to involve the cops or the Department of Child services somebody else’s life. Yet at the same time these are valid concerns. And the child should come first and the situation.
I am really conflicted on the situation.
But my advice to my son will remain the same do not allow anyone to damage you


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> I am amazed that anyone feels like defending yourself is a “wrong”.


No one said that at all.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JeepHammer said:


> What the kid needs is professional help since he's setting *a pattern*, encouraged by his father, to *beat* woman and *anyone YOU deem unworthy* (snitch), etc.


I've also seen you advocate using physical violence against those with whom you disagree.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> No one said that at all.


Sorry barefoot farm but when someone is trying to kill you even if it’s unintentional looking at them and saying no no please don’t do that is not defending yourself.
Responding with just a tiny bit more strength than they use leads to them thinking G they almost did it if they try a little harder they can win and then they will turn in the problem continues.
Creating a situation where you have to keep looking over your shoulder is not a defense.
A defense is responding in such a manner that they are never again tempted to attack you nor is anyone else watching the attack.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Sorry barefoot farm but when someone is trying to kill you even if it’s unintentional looking at them and saying no no please don’t do that is not defending yourself.
> Responding with just a tiny bit more strength than they use leads to them thinking G they almost did it if they try a little harder they can win and then they will turn in the problem continues.
> Creating a situation where you have to keep looking over your shoulder is not a defense.
> A defense is responding in such a manner that they are never again tempted to attack you nor is anyone else watching the attack.


That has nothing to do with my comment, nor the comment I quoted.


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## ticndig (Sep 7, 2014)

you're not beating women , you're beating a dead horse....


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That has nothing to do with my comment, nor the comment I quoted.


 Will you read this thread at all? Lots of people have told me that I should not tell my child to defend himself


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

you say he did defend himself, . 
where did that get him ?
personally I probably would have done what he did.
but now you have to take it to the next step and eliminate the attacker. Not by beating. Go back to the principal and ask him what he is going to do about it ?
If nothing, go to the police. I am not a fan of police either, but........


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Well apparently defending himself brought attention to the situation that may be enough to correct it ,we will see


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Will you read this thread at all? Lots of people have told me that I should not tell my child to defend himself


That's not what they said.
I'm not going to explain it again though.
It's been done several times already.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yes it is it’s exactly what they said and you’re not gonna explain it again because you know you’re wrong


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> Well apparently defending himself brought attention to the situation that may be enough to correct it ,we will see


There is a huge difference between defending oneself and your original discussion about ''stomping the life out" of someone or hanging a beating on someone who reported the incident.

I doubt very much if you're going to change your mind and also suspect that you are unlikely to see any satisfaction from the school after telling your son to beat anyone down and stomp the life out of them in front of the principal. You simply sanctioned killing another student in front of witnesses. 

I'm struggling to find your descriptions of both kids as credible (gentle giant vs spurned prostitute) and it really doesn't sound like you've had any reasonable discussion with your son over the whole thing if you're telling him why you believe the problem has arisen. 

Reasonable solutions would have been to have a logical discussion with the school on how the situation could be resolved, switching classes would be a good start, documenting assaults would have been helpful.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wr said:


> There is a huge difference between defending oneself and your original discussion about ''stomping the life out" of someone or hanging a beating on someone who reported the incident.
> 
> I doubt very much if you're going to change your mind and also suspect that you are unlikely to see any satisfaction from the school after telling your son to beat anyone down and stomp the life out of them in front of the principal. You simply sanctioned killing another student in front of witnesses.
> 
> ...


 I’ve already admitted that my OP was a enraged rant .
I’ve also admitted that I have since revised my plan of action

But I would like to ask of you the same I did jeephammer. what do you think a reasonable defense is against a enraged stabbing attack 
?


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Violence begets violence. Much better to let school authorities resolve the problem if they will. If not, file charges with the police and let them deal with it. Since she is a juvie she won't have a "record" and if juvenile court gets involved there will be court ordered counseling and court determined probation rules. Try to dial everything down as much as possible especially in front of your son or it will develop a life of its own.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Ok that’s Fine advice but how do you deal with the problem of keeping the child alive until the authorities can do something?
Again to make it simple what should he do when he is being stabbed by someone?
And to be honest in that moment I don’t care the least bit about the other person my only responsibility is to give my son advice that will keep him alive.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> Ok that’s Fine advice but how do you deal with the problem of keeping the child alive until the authorities can do something?
> Again to make it simple what should he do when he is being stabbed by someone?
> And to be honest in that moment I don’t care the least bit about the other person my only responsibility is to give my son advice that will keep him alive.


Sidestep the attacker.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

It’s a shame the kid can’t dance.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

You're not hearing. You can't seem to comprehend the meaning of what's being said here. The whole thread is futile. You're going to do what you do and you'll see down the line how that turns out for your son's future.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Really ?
I have taken some of the advice here and I have modified my behavior
I am open to ideas. 
Honestly I don’t think your comment is really valid. 
Do you have a better way to offer?
One that will Keep my son from suffering permanent damage?


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> tomorrow it will be day 3 of this thread.
> Nothing has been done in the form of any positive action.
> Lots of talk..
> I am wondering if this actually happened to the son at all ??


Well gee whiz Andy I got the call Friday after school while I wAs in Cali. 
Just what do you expect to happen on the weekend ?
N O school on the weekend 
I was actually Surprised that I got a hold of the principal 
Remember this week we had turkey day?
I think we’ve made pretty good progress over a holiday weekend


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

AmericanStand said:


> Really ?
> I have taken some of the advice here and I have modified my behavior
> I am open to ideas.
> Honestly I don’t think your comment is really valid.
> ...


So we went from a principal visit telling your son in front of the principal to basically kill another student.

To a phone call on a holiday weekend that likely never occurred, interesting.

I'm thinking we are getting another of your fanciful stories.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> Ok that’s Fine advice but how do you deal with the problem of keeping the child alive until the authorities can do something?
> Again to make it simple what should he do when he is being stabbed by someone?
> And to be honest in that moment I don’t care the least bit about the other person my only responsibility is to give my son advice that will keep him alive.


If I were truly concerned for my child's life being in danger, I wouldn't be sending him back to that school tomorrow. Seriously.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

coolrunnin said:


> So we went from a principal visit telling your son in front of the principal to basically kill another student.
> 
> To a phone call on a holiday weekend that likely never occurred, interesting.
> 
> I'm thinking we are getting another of your fanciful stories.


 Have you never talked to the principal on the phone? HAs the school never called you and told you about a problem?


----------



## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> I’ve already admitted that my OP was a enraged rant .
> I’ve also admitted that I have since revised my plan of action
> 
> But I would like to ask of you the same I did jeephammer. what do you think a reasonable defense is against a enraged stabbing attack
> ?





Yvonne's hubby said:


> Sidestep the attacker.





AmericanStand said:


> It’s a shame the kid can’t dance.



LOL.
Ya know, YH is actually onto something in your reasonable defense against a stabbing attack.
I'm no martial arts expert but I learned a few defense moves that are exactly for those situations.

Yes, he'll have to be on guard, but that's not a bad thing to learn.
Sidestepping a lunging attacker lets the laws of physics take over, if they run into a wall and hurt themselves, oh well, you never touched them. 
Learning a few hand blocks and arm holds DOES mean you touched them, but purely in defense.
Besides preventing harm to anyone, it's also capable of bring some physical discomfort and psychologically defeating them as well.
Removing the idea that they can harm you should diffuse the situation without getting anyone in serious trouble.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

To clarify the situation for those of you that are having a hard time understanding it. 
Apparently the situation with the girl hitting my son has gone on for a while perhaps as much as six months.
She has also stabbed him with a pencil

When my fed up son reasonably pushed her away from him to stop the last attack she stumbled and apparently hit her head on the locker. 
another child witnessed this act and went and got a teacher
But then he went around the school calling my son a woman beater
The teacher took the situation to the principal
The principal apparently got to the truth of the situation and issued the girl a one day in school suspension. 
I found out about this Thursday and got a hold of the principal to discuss it Friday. 
That is the situation as it now stands
My current plan of action is as follows
My son has been instructed to vigorously defend himself if he is attacked or he sees her advancing on him with a weapon
We are going to hope
that the one day suspension is enough to change her behavior
However if she’s attacks him again I will be going to the police. 
Monday I will be stopping by the principals office to make that clear to him and to ask him to contact her parents and make it clear to them. 
Thanks to some of the advice that you all have offered in this thread I will also discuss with him the matter what’s going on in her home life that she thinks this is acceptable.
That goes against my experience and the green of my personality so I am going to defer to his judgment on the situation in theory as a professional he should be far better equipped to deal with it than I am.

after a couple of days of calm reason and consideration this seems like the best course to me. 

As always I am open to improvement if someone has a better suggestion.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

farmrbrown said:


> LOL.
> Ya know, YH is actually onto something in your reasonable defense against a stabbing attack.
> I'm no martial arts expert but I learned a few defense moves that are exactly for those situations.
> 
> ...


 Not a bad idea not a bad idea at all I see two problems though number one I don’t think he can be trained by 8 AM Monday morning and number two often the attacks come from behind when he is apparently a target of opportunity


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I'm still trying to wrap my head around school on Friday the day after Thanksgiving.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

No school just the principal I’m his office.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> Not a bad idea not a bad idea at all I see two problems though number one I don’t think he can be trained by 8 AM Monday morning and number two often the attacks come from behind when he is apparently a target of opportunity



Good points.

On the first one, I could teach him a few basic ones this evening and you probably could too. Many really are simple "dance moves".
As much as people made fun of "wax on, wax off" in Karate kid, that particular move is a key one for a knife or any other weapon attack. 
Left hand (most people are right handed) half circle sweep, either up and away or down and away.
(wax on, wax off, lol)
That deflects their hand away from your body.
A continuation of "wax off" - start at center of your body, sweep arm counter clockwise, up and away - is how you trap their arm with one hand leaving your right hand free for an offensive move.
The sweep continues in a full circle ending in their elbow pinned between your body and your left arm. Only slight pressure is needed because their elbow joint is now straightened out and isn't made to bend any further. Ouch.
Their weapon is behind your back now, out of reach and a little extra "snug" with your left arm and they'll drop it with a cry of pain. 


The second one is what I do as common as tying my shoes.
I look at any glass, windows, etc. and look at the reflections. I notice shadows and footsteps behind me too. If you can sneak up on me, you're lucky, good or both.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

farmrbrown said:


> The second one is what I do as common as tying my shoes.
> I look at any glass, windows, etc. and look at the reflections. I notice shadows and footsteps behind me too. If you can sneak up on me, you're lucky, good or both.


 Lol yeah I do that too

But are we concentrating on our books enough to pass our midterms ?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol yeah I do that too
> 
> But are we concentrating on our books enough to pass our midterms ?


I can't say. I was the kid that never studied, just showed up for test days, scored 100 and blew any chance for a curve until the teachers threw mine out so the C - kids could catch a break, lol.
Usually did tomorrow's homework during today's class so I had time to goof off after school.

Being serious though, I'd think that the present distraction is a bigger problem than he's telling you. So the sooner it's handled, the better.
Also, once everyone knows your son isn't a target for any foolishness, his need to have eyes in the back of his head disappears too.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

farmrbrown said:


> Being serious though, I'd think that the present distraction is a bigger problem than he's telling you. So the sooner it's handled, the better.
> Also, once everyone knows your son isn't a target for any foolishness, his need to have eyes in the back of his head disappears too.


I understand that. One of the reasons I advocate going bat crap crazy on anyone who attacks you is because I was always the new kid in school every year. 
I quickly learned that one good bat crap crazy I’m going to kill three generations of your family beat downs would save me a dozen fights later on.

And I really hate to fight


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

you keep referring to your son getting maimed or killed.
If you really believe that, don't send him to school.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> you keep referring to your son getting maimed or killed.
> If you really believe that, don't send him to school.


You are right and I am conflicted about this. But it doesn’t seem right that my son should have to suffer because someone else cannot control them self.
I think we are taking reasonable steps to deal with the level of the threat


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

AmericanStand said:


> To clarify the situation for those of you that are having a hard time understanding it.
> Apparently the situation with the girl hitting my son has gone on for a while perhaps as much as six months.
> She has also stabbed him with a pencil
> 
> ...


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

101pigs said:


> I haven't been keeping up with this report. Anyway i would talk to the school and tell them to take action with in 24 hours or the police and your lawyer will handle this case. In the mean time your child will be out of school and a lawsuit will follow. NO child should be allowed to harm another at a public school. You have no recourse except to file charges and protect your son. No way should you attack or talk with the girl or her parents. That is the school and the police or your lawyers job.


I'm sure that is the way many people would handle this type of thing these days, but it always gives me a little culture shock when I see it.
I don't say this intending to single you out by any means, but that's almost the opposite of the way things were a few decades ago.
Parents, kids, teachers, principals and yes, even cops all knew and talked to each other....and things usually never went too far or got out of hand.
Calling the police or lawyers wasn't even considered and everyone from the kids to adults DID consider it their job to handle it.
Confrontations from verbal to physical weren't encouraged but they were expected to happen occasionally - to nearly everyone at some point during the 12 years they attended school.
It was simply one of the things you had to learn to deal with in life. It's a big bad world out there and it doesn't get any easier after graduation either.

Maybe things are different now, but i can't say they are any better.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yes 50 years ago she would’ve got a beat down and left my son alone but look at the responses nowadays that I got for merely instructing him to defend himself!


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Some thought it wrong for him to push her from him during the attack.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Sadly they are not wrong in this day and age vigorously defending yourself could wind you up in jail


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> I’ve already admitted that my OP was a enraged rant .
> I’ve also admitted that I have since revised my plan of action
> 
> But I would like to ask of you the same I did jeephammer. what do you think a reasonable defense is against a enraged stabbing attack
> ?


I'm assuming that we're still referring to the pencil as the deadly weapon? I'm sorry but I'm not convinced that it justifies stomping the life out of anyone. 

You're always quick to mention 'back in the day' but I'm pretty convinced that it's when the story fits your narrative. Back in the day, quite a few of us were assaulted with the same deadly weapon and we carry a little dark spot under our skin. 

You already let slip a couple pages ago that there is a significant size difference between your gentle giant and the crazed prostitute so I feel he should be able to avoid being stabbed through the heart with a pencil fairly easily.

You clearly indicated that you told your son to kill another schoolmate and I find that absolutely shocking and possibly ther worst parenting skills I've ever heard of. 

You will continue to justify your actions and explain to me why your son may need to kill a classmate but in the end, your advice if foolish and I feel sorry for your son. He's dealing with conflict at school and a parent who feels that the best way to resolve a middle school confict is to end someone's life.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

AmericanStand, you have my sympathy about dealing with the situation long distance. It wasn't clear about who got suspended, glad to see it was the girl and not your son.

My daughter had a similar situation. I would have beat the snot out of the boy picking on her (which the teachers were perfectly aware of but still tossed them into the same class to try to "make them be friends"). If I hadn't been going through a terribly rough spot myself, I certainly would have got hold of the boy hitting and threatening her and changed his attitude. 

It's a sad society that keeps children from being able to defend themselves without fear of retaliation by adults who are supposed to protect them. Every person most definitely should have the RIGHT to defend themself, despite the sex of the attacker. 

I hope it works out for AS's son's benefit. IMO, the girl should be removed from the school and sent for a mental health evaluation. The school needs to protect children who are forced to be in their care.


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

What does the mom and/or stepmom think about the situation?


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

This is an example of a school handbook page regarding fighting.
Surely your school has one, and your son the girl and you should know what's in it.
This one even suggests walking away.
I'm sure your son would be excused from arriving late to class to report any threats or contact.



https://www.wsfcs.k12.nc.us/Page/71244
* Fighting*

A student shall not assault, hit, kick, punch, fight, intentionally harm or threaten to harm another person. A student shall not incite or instigate a fight. A student commits this offense by actively urging or directing others to take part in the fight or by causing or instigating the fight to occur. Students committing this offense will be disciplined in the same manner as those students actually engaging in the fight.
A student should avoid a fight by walking away from a threatened conflict and/or reporting the other student’s threats to a teacher or administrator. A student may, in a defensive manner, restrain the other student or block punches, kicks etc. but if the student retaliates by kicking, hitting, striking, etc. the other student, that action is considered fighting. 

An affray is a fight between more than two people which causes a large public disturbance. Examples of an affray are fights involving multiple students in the school cafeteria or at an athletic event. A person who commits an affray may be guilty of a misdemeanor.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

AmericanStand said:


> I quickly learned that one good bat crap crazy I’m going to kill three generations of your family beat downs would save me a dozen fights later on.


Somewhere can be heard the sound of a dime dropping.
Don't be shocked at the knocks on the door, just answer their questions. You are in Illinois so you won't have any firearms to surrender anyway.
Try and text before the relaxants kick in.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

rkintn said:


> What does the mom and/or stepmom think about the situation?


The boys or the girls. ?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I do love the flag.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

“A student may, in a defensive manner, restrain the other student or block punches, kicks etc. but if the student retaliates by kicking, hitting, striking, etc. the other student, that action is considered fighting. ”
Obviously whoever wrote that knows absolutely nothing about defense.
That’s not defense that deference.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> “A student may, in a defensive manner, restrain the other student or block punches, kicks etc. but if the student retaliates by kicking, hitting, striking, etc. the other student, that action is considered fighting. ”
> Obviously whoever wrote that knows absolutely nothing about defense.
> That’s not defense that deference.


Defense is to defend. Fighting back is fighting back.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

The schools could care less about defense. It’s all about liability and responsibility. Neither the teachers or principle or board want to be responsible or held liable for something they actually did. So its much easier to say walk away from problems and to ask your child to walk away than it is for them to insure they properly watch over the children in the school. Chances are the parents of the problem causing children are not doing their job either. The police and other parts of the legal system are not gong to get involved unless they have to, thus the requirement to personally call them and get them involved. 

Bottom line is that now a days you best walk away and contact the authorities how ever many times it may take or be willing to spend some time in jail and some money to deal with the authorities. 

Justice and legal are two different subjects. The children might as well learn how the system currently works. 



P.s I have been surprised at the number of people that suggest for a parent to personally contact or actually go to the home of a problem child and contact that parent. Lots of chances for that to go wrong in so many ways and little chance of a positive outcome.


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

The boy's


AmericanStand said:


> The boys or the girls. ?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

rkintn said:


> What does the mom and/or stepmom think about the situation?


 She is my sons bio mom , I am the step dad. 
She is as upset as me , perhaps more. One thing I have noticed is she is not willing to cut the girl any slack.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> “A student may, in a defensive manner, restrain the other student or block punches, kicks etc. but if the student retaliates by kicking, hitting, striking, etc. the other student, that action is considered fighting. ”
> Obviously whoever wrote that knows absolutely nothing about defense.
> That’s not defense that deference.


But first try and walk away and report it. Immediately.

Did she try and stab him with a pencil, or actually leave a mark and beak the skin, and why have you let this go on for "possibly months"?!


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> Perhaps this should be in the homesteading families.
> There is a young lady at school who is taken to punching ,stabbing with a pencil and kicking in the groin my son.
> I did not know this until recently when he pushed her away from him and she stumbled and hit her head on the lockers.
> Two problems have arisen from this it was witnessed by a young man who has both told the principal and is now calling my son a woman beater.
> ...


Don't talk to the principal, or her parents. If they haven't done anything by now they are unlikely to. Make a police report, and keep after them until they do something. Get child services involved, that will get their attention.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Around here I’ve gotten the impression the cops don’t really want to get involved in school kid problems unless the school requests them. Is it different there ?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> Around here I’ve gotten the impression the cops don’t really want to get involved in school kid problems unless the school requests them. Is it different there ?


Yes it is. I have taken students out of class in handcuffs, and booked them into juvy. Let the courts and lawyers figure it out. I have had the parents show up at the school and complain that I couldn't take their child, or even talk to their child without their permission. It just caused more paper work, and I would then book the parents for interfering with an investigation. If a child is attacking someone with a weapon, and a pencil can be a deadly weapon, the time for talking is over.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Were you responding to a request from the school ?
Or did the situation come to your attention in some other way?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Both ways, we would get calls from parents, students, even teachers who had become fed up with the school administration. I once responded to a call from the school. They wanted a student arrested because he had a pocket knife in a backpack. This was a violation of school policy, but not any real law. When I refused to arrest the student, the principal threw a fit. I told him that a school could not make up their own laws. He spent months trying to get me fired.

The case where I arrested a student in the classroom, I think the 911 call was made by another student. 

This principal married one of his students when she turned eighteen. They had been "dating" since she was fifteen. The age of consent was fourteen. Last I heard he was still the principal, at that school. This is the world we live in now.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Ain't ya glad yer retired?


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## kotori (Nov 15, 2014)

My stepsister was in a similar situation...escalated to being thrown down a flight of stairs then choked. as she started to black out she pushed the girl off of her. was considered an equal participant and got the same punishment. Is it stupid? unbelievably. Do you have to play by the rules? Yup. If you raise a hand against them you're seen as being just as guilty, even on level playing ground. with your son being much larger and you going on record as advocating murder....it would go very bad. your words can be taken as premeditation which would rule out a defense argument. I'm not a lawyer, but by saying that you made things much much worse....

I perused some references of 'Assault with a deadly weapon' and while you might be able to swing that with a pencil, it would open up the same for your son since even hands and feet can be considered such if used with intent to harm, especially if there is a strength discrepancy. 

If you contact the girl's parents, I recommend doing so with a mediator present, such as the principal or w/e. Record the conversation with their permission. if nothing else, it will get solid proof that when confronted with the allegations they didn't deny them, or that they were informed of such. If you want to go a step further, you could send a cease and desist letter certified so they have to sign and therefore leave evidence.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

This thread is good example of why and how this country has gone down the wrong path.
It used to be we didn't have discipline and violence problems in the schools.
We didn't have cops posted in the buildings and lawyers on speed dial.
And the parents and teachers were the FIRST people called to handle the situation IF it occurred and you better believe it was handled before the sun went down that same day!
The next morning everyone knew it was time to go to school, learn something and behave yourself - absolutely 100% crystal clear.
I guess that was too easy.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Around here I’ve gotten the impression the cops don’t really want to get involved in school kid problems unless the school requests them. Is it different there ?


The events you described aren't "school kid problems".
They are criminal assaults.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Any reason they can’t be both ?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

gilberte said:


> Ain't ya glad yer retired?


Yep, don't miss it at all.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> Any reason they can’t be both ?


They can't be both because the school has no business or authority to handle a criminal issue.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

You should probably give thanks for being in New Mexico here in Illinois the schools are obligated to do all kinds of weird things having to do with the kids fighting not fighting mental health bullying etc. etc. etc. I’m not the school systems lawyer or principal and I am glad of that!


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> Any reason they can’t be both ?


They _could be_ but most people like to try and keep kids, their kids or anyone else's, out of jail. If not permanently at least until they get out of the house.
There's plenty of time later on to go to jail for fighting, like after they learn how to get drunk at the local bar.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> You should probably give thanks for being in New Mexico here in Illinois the schools are obligated to do all kinds of weird things having to do with the kids fighting not fighting mental health bullying etc. etc. etc. I’m not the school systems lawyer or principal and I am glad of that!


The rules are on your side, if you had stopped and thought before making threats. 

If your son is being abused as you describe, the school handbook should define clearly what happens to the student(s) that are bullying. Your son is also being physically abused, which is also clearly spelled out in the student handbook. Your son's mental well being is being compromised by way of physical assaults and bullying and that should also be spelled out within the student handbook. 

I'm not sure if it's the same in the US but in Canada, a copy of the student handbook is sent home to parents for them to read and sign, along with the student. You might want to ask the school for a copy so you can see how the rules are intended to protect your son, book an appointment with the principal and discuss those rules and how you expect them to be enforced.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

LOL yeah basically they can punish a kid that starts a fight IF its witnessed and the other kid responds so they can then punish BOTH kids for fighting But if he doesn't respond its not a fight so the starter doesn't get much.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wr said:


> I'm assuming that we're still referring to the pencil as the deadly weapon? I'm sorry but I'm not convinced that it justifies stomping the life out of anyone.
> 
> You're always quick to mention 'back in the day' but I'm pretty convinced that it's when the story fits your narrative. Back in the day, quite a few of us were assaulted with the same deadly weapon and we carry a little dark spot under our skin.
> 
> ...


LOL wow what a bunch of hyperbole.
Yes I was pretty worked up when I responded first to the situation , My kid his life in danger etc. 
But long before you posted this I settled down. 
Look back WAY back I calmed down, why prolong the Rant? heck I wouldn't even mind if the whole thread was deleated,,,,,,,,,,
We have resolved the situation. the kids have made up (thank god NOT kissed and made up!)
"stomp the life outa" is not at all the same thing as Kill its more like stomp the Fight out of someone. Ie to beat them enough they change their mind about seeking contact. I wish I had said that perhaps next time I will, add that to the list of things I learned in this thread.
You think he should be able to avoid being stabbed through the Heart. Can You guarantee it? More likely though is being stabbed through the jugular. He was stabbed FROM BEHIND only a couple inches from there.
But yes I would still tell him to kill someone if that's what it takes to keep from being killed.
Remember its not the weapon its the intent that justifies the response. and yes a out of control girl with a pencil ,nail file key or broken coffee cup can be pretty deadly, or a rock just a plain ol rock.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> But yes I would still tell him to kill someone if that's what it takes to keep from being killed.
> Remember its not the weapon its the intent that justifies the response. and yes a out of control girl with a pencil ,nail file key or broken coffee cup can be pretty deadly, or a rock just a plain ol rock.


This I agree with 100%. Despite getting in trouble at school, every person has the right to defend themself. I hope your son never trusts this girl again and keeps his distance as much as possible.

I would have informed the girl and the school pesonnel that if anything similar ever happens again I would be contacting the police and pressing charges.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Danaus29 said:


> This I agree with 100%. Despite getting in trouble at school, every person has the right to defend themself. I hope your son never trusts this girl again and keeps his distance as much as possible.
> 
> I would have informed the girl and the school pesonnel that if anything similar ever happens again I would be contacting the police and pressing charges.


 That is essentially what the school and I have agreed upon. But they are aware that I have also instructed my son to defend himself to whatever degree needed


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I’d like to point out this is one of those little things that can totally get out of hand quickly.
Notice that it’s currently a little thing. 
I don’t for a moment believe this girl intends to kill my son. 
But I also know that when a rage people do strange things. They don’t really intend on. 

I also know that although she might intend simply to hurt him a little bit and get his attention that a small slip could turn deadly. 
Young teenagers not thinking through the possible results of their actions is not exactly anything new .
But it’s also the reason that my son should be able to protect himself in a very clear way. Because you don’t know when that small school fight could turn into a deadly assault with a weapon simply due to a mistake on the assaulters part.
So yes I accept this was a small event blown out of shape and I am overjoyed that is what it is. I am overjoyed that it stayed that way. And I do not want it to ever start up again


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

unfortunately, most of the time the schools do nothing. And, if this young lady is as violent has you describe, I doubt talking to her parents will make much of a difference either. (I suspect she probably gets her way by doing similar things at home). I raised two boys and know girls can be crazy. But I'd never let my boys hit a girl. Do the girls deserve it? Absolutely!! But in our society, while females wants to be equal to males....they do not like males hitting females. They just don't. Your poor son will be the aggressor and poor little sweetie pie will be seen as the victim. Sad, yet true. He needs a "wing man" to help document and witness this abuse and then report it to a teacher, principle, whoever. If they continue to do nothing, call the cops. My oldest was dating a girl who was totally nuts. Cute girl, very nice, you'd never know. They were out one night with friends and she got ticked off and beat the crap out of him. When I saw him in the morning, I asked how he got the black eye and cut on his chin (looked like he'd been in a accident).....she punched him. (he's 6'1" and she is a little thing) I said "did you hit her back?" He said "no mom, I locked myself in the bathroom and the other couple drove her home once she calmed down". We took pictures of his injuries for documentation in case she continued to come around or worse.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> They _could be_ but most people like to try and keep kids, their kids or anyone else's, out of jail.


That policy helped Nikolas Cruz.


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## NChemungGuy (Sep 5, 2004)

To answer the question posed in the thread title, when it comes to fighting I'm pretty equal opportunity. If a woman wants to step up and fight like a man, she best be ready to get knocked on her ass like one.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

AmericanStand said:


> Perhaps this should be in the homesteading families.
> There is a young lady at school who is taken to punching ,stabbing with a pencil and kicking in the groin my son.
> I did not know this until recently when he pushed her away from him and she stumbled and hit her head on the lockers.
> Two problems have arisen from this it was witnessed by a young man who has both told the principal and is now calling my son a woman beater.
> ...


A lot more to this then it seems. Your side of the story. What's the young girls side of the story ? Haven't heard it. Why has your son been going back dating this young lady for years if she is so bad. Her actions don't seem that bad. Your son pushed her and it could have had really caused her life time problems. 
The rules are you don't fight in school and you don't hit ladies. You said you may knock the life out of this girl. That is serious grounds for a law suit. In the last 6 mos. that you say your son was abused by this young lady at school did he report to anyone at the school or anywhere else. If he didn't report it how would he prove that she abused him. If you or your son hurts this young lady again you could be in real trouble.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

101
I don’t think you have read the entire Now way to long thread.
Do you just stand there and let somebody beat you to death because they’re not happy with you. Or would you have responded by pushing them away from you so they would stop hitting you?
Or would you have done something stronger?

He has dated to her off and on for years because apparently they are attracted to each other. I think she is considered to be the most attractive young lady in her grade.
But my son came to the conclusion that other things are important and the last time she came back to him he he declined to be her boyfriend. 
Apparently that was when the physical violence started. 
Like any new thing you think of it only happened once ,and then you think it’s going to get better, and then you think it’s probably over by now . 
After six months she picked a inopportune time to attack him and he pushed her away from him. 
Would you have done any less or would you prefer to allow her to beat you to death?
And we all know she probably wouldn’t beat him to death with her fist but is there really any reason for him to wear marks and bruises from her?
Do you think that pushing her away was more than he should’ve done?
I see a pattern here he doesn’t respond in a decisive matter so she just keeps hitting him.
I think an overwhelming beat down would convinced her that it was not worthwhile to harass him. 
However It seems like this suspension has been enough to convince her to modify her behavior. She apologized to my son ,explained what she was doing wrong and apologized for that. They have agreed to be friends ,let’s hope that it is over with.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That policy helped Nikolas Cruz.


Not exactly the policy I was talking about, notice I said "most" people.
I was referring to my earlier post about a time not so long ago, when parents and teachers were proactive and kept order and discipline in the schools. Sure, fights and bullies were present, but calling the cops was a last resort.
Cruz had serious personal/mental issues and was one of those exceptions that obviously needed law enforcement to be involved. In some cases, hopefully rare ones, the best thing you can do for that kid IS lock them up. Maybe they'll straighten out, maybe not, but everyone is safer in the long run.
That isn't needed for the average school scuffle though.

In my jr. high and high school, they both had assistant principals and Phys. Ed. coaches that were more than capable of handling anything that came their way not to mention more than a few regular classroom teachers that you wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley, lol.


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## kotori (Nov 15, 2014)

To answer the title question, I would do it as a last resort only if death was the other option -- male or female. I'm a woman, once was a girl who was irregularly bullied. got choked by a boy, stared him in the eyes until his grip loosened and I freed myself with minimal force and walked to a teacher. No marks, nothing happened but he never messed with me again.
By reacting in a bullying case*, only escalation happens imo. A single punch might work this time, but what about next time? You beat them down, it seems to work, but then they escalate to a knife/gun -- what then? I've seen that happen at my school, luckily knife guy didn't manage to stab anyone but he said it was in revenge for being beat up. I don't want to open myself up to that sort of retaliation.

*for house invasion/ actual crime? nothing is sacred then.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> Not exactly the policy I was talking about, notice I said "most" people.


The policy used with Cruz was "keeping kids out of jail".
That's close enough for me.



farmrbrown said:


> Cruz had serious personal/mental issues and was one of those exceptions that obviously *needed law enforcement to be involved*.


They were "involved" on multiple occasions, but he was never charged or jailed.
Because of the "policy".



farmrbrown said:


> That isn't needed for the *average school scuffle* though.


The OP talked about a "stabbing with a deadly weapon" and assaults on more than one occasion.
Of course, the story keeps changing.....who knows what really happened?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Oh yeah, the answer to the original question........

I'd say never.
But definitely, absolutely, under any circumstances you should NOT do it right before your bedtime.

Two words.

Lorena Bobbitt.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

we had a similar episode in out neighborhood.
Our friend's sister found out that her DH was having extracurricular excitement.
as a last act before she filed for divorce, she super glued his joy stick to his stomach..
It was temporary, but got the point across.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

kotori said:


> To answer the title question, I would do it as a last resort only if death was the other option -- male or female. I'm a woman, once was a girl who was irregularly bullied. got choked by a boy, stared him in the eyes until his grip loosened and I freed myself with minimal force and walked to a teacher. No marks, nothing happened but he never messed with me again.
> By reacting in a bullying case*, only escalation happens imo. A single punch might work this time, but what about next time? You beat them down, it seems to work, but then they escalate to a knife/gun -- what then? I've seen that happen at my school, luckily knife guy didn't manage to stab anyone but he said it was in revenge for being beat up. I don't want to open myself up to that sort of retaliation.
> 
> *for house invasion/ actual crime? nothing is sacred then.


Being choked is a actual crime.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The policy used with Cruz was "keeping kids out of jail".
> That's close enough for me.
> 
> They were "involved" on multiple occasions, but he was never charged or jailed.
> Because of the "policy".


Again, "close" is a relative term.
The moon is "close" but very few have been there.
That particular policy was not the way things were handled in my youth and not relevant to my post, in case there was any confusion.



> The OP talked about a "stabbing with a deadly weapon" and assaults on more than one occasion.
> Of course, the story keeps changing.....who knows what really happened?


Yep. The occasional pencil jab was rare but not unheard of back then and usually accompanied by a few days suspension and of course the expected butt whooping when they got home.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The OP talked about a "stabbing with a deadly weapon" and assaults on more than one occasion.
> Of course, the story keeps changing.....who knows what really happened?


 How has the story changed ?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> How has the story changed ?


I'm not going to explain it to you.
Anyone who can read can see it.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> That particular policy was not the way things were handled *in my youth* and not relevant to my post, in case there was any confusion.


I wasn't talking about you or your youth.
I was talking about Nicholas Cruz.



farmrbrown said:


> Yep. The occasional pencil jab was rare but not unheard of *back then* and usually accompanied by a few days suspension and of course the expected butt whooping when they got home.


See the answer above.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I wasn't talking about you or your youth.
> I was talking about Nicholas Cruz.


Exactly.
Entering examples that aren't part of the topical context is unnecessary.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> Entering examples that aren't part of the topical context is unnecessary.


Cruz was topical.
He was the end result of a program to keep kids out of jail.

How things were 40 years ago, not so much.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

double post


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Cruz was topical.
> He was the end result of a program to keep kids out of jail.
> 
> How things were 40 years ago, not so much.



THAT policy was shown to be a failure and had nothing to do with the policies I referred to from the past.
https://www.realclearinvestigations...cipline_policy_and_the_parkland_shooting.html

Leniency to the point of being legally negligent is the opposite of the way things used to be handled, which was the topic we were discussing before you interjected Cruz.
And it is indeed relevant to the reason there is a discipline problem today in our schools.
Bringing up an extreme example of a *lack* of parental and school discipline only proves my point.
There's more than one way to keep kids out of jail, ya know.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> *THAT policy was shown to be a failure* and had nothing to do with the policies I referred to from the past.


Of course it was, hence the reference to Cruz.



farmrbrown said:


> And it is indeed relevant to the reason there is a discipline problem today in our schools.


So you say.
I can't take your word for anything though, and it has nothing to do with what I said about Cruz.
But maybe if you repeat it all one more time........


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Of course it was, hence the reference to Cruz.
> 
> 
> So you say.
> ...


Nope, that won't be necessary. The people that know the reason can see it plain as day, the ones that can't are probably clueless and have been told many times already.
I'm indifferent to whether anyone takes my word for anything, I only care if they falsely claim what I actually said.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> I'm indifferent to whether anyone takes my word for anything, I only care if they falsely claim what I actually said.


I've never said anything about you that isn't true, but that has nothing to do with Cruz either.
It's still not about you.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I'm not going to explain it to you.
> Anyone who can read can see it.


I think you’re wrong. If you were right you would take great joy in proving you were right. 
Now if you’re trying to say that the story has progressed That would be true but that has an entirely different connotations than what you said.
I have clarified a few things but I haven’t changed anything. I think it’s very juvenile of you to scream you can’t believe something because the story has changed when there have simply been a few words that have been clarified or perhaps used 12 instead of a dozen.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I've never said anything about you that isn't true, but that has nothing to do with Cruz either.
> It's still not about you.


Since the thread is about another member's son having a problem at his school, it's obvious what and who this is "about".
After AS made progress in resolving it, discipline problems in general were discussed.
My observation was........



farmrbrown said:


> This thread is good example of why and how this country has gone down the wrong path.
> It used to be we didn't have discipline and violence problems in the schools.
> We didn't have cops posted in the buildings and lawyers on speed dial.
> And the parents and teachers were the FIRST people called to handle the situation IF it occurred and you better believe it was handled before the sun went down that same day!
> ...





farmrbrown said:


> They _could be_ but most people like to try and keep kids, their kids or anyone else's, out of jail. If not permanently at least until they get out of the house.
> There's plenty of time later on to go to jail for fighting, like after they learn how to get drunk at the local bar.


After which you *falsely claimed this.....*



Bearfootfarm said:


> That policy helped Nikolas Cruz.


Keeping kids out of jail by keeping them in line is NOT the policy that Cruz's school district implemented. The link I posted clearly showed it was the opposite of the policy I advocated.
Where is Cruz now?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> After which you *falsely claimed this.....*


There's nothing "false" about my statement.



farmrbrown said:


> Keeping kids out of jail by keeping them in line is NOT the policy that Cruz's school district implemented.


I never said a word about the "school district".
That's your normal "refute something never stated" routine.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It looks like this one has run it's course.


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