# I kinda wonder



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Its funny how, It seems that the men of this country today, much more than the women are noticed to be, or show their feminine side much more than it is noticed that women have come to show there masculine side. Terms like Metrosexual men have sprung up to show a breaking down of the supposed maniy qualities that our dads and granddads seemed to have. Ive wondered a bit as to why that is. I came to a conclusion that, it may be because, men have taken to housework, and cooking, and most of us know of a man who is a great housekeeper and fine cook. I imagine that nearly all of us know some woman who cant cook, wont cook, and is a poor housemaker. Then again, My sister is a great carpenter, whereas Im a lousy carpenter. Why does it seem there is a growing role reversal among the sexes? Could it be that modernization has made it easier for men to keep house and cook, and made tools more usable for women? I think so. I can remember dad having a Homelite chain saw that was HEAVY, I had a saw like it also when in my EARLY 20s. NOW, they have what I call butter cutters, that one can operate with one hand. They have electric chain saws that have a fair length of blade yet are really light. I see tiny looking saws on TV that can cut wood/metal great. Aluminum ladders, all sorts of tools that are made expressly for either slight men or women to handle them. 
On the other side, MWs have turned cooking around. That and U Tubes, which can tell a man how to cook, can, preserve, and prepare food in any way, makes it easy for a man so inclined to be able to be a fine cook. Any man, so inclined can also be a great housekeeper, if he so chooses.
I think these lines will meld and blur more as time goes on. To what end is anybodys guess. But what do I know?


----------



## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

I am a woman alone. 
I do all that needs to be done, whether it is a traditional male or female job.
If I don't know how to do it , I either have to learn or pay someone. 
Most times I'd rather learn.


----------



## tamarackreg (Mar 13, 2006)

My "butter cutter" is pushing 5hp, has a 22" bar and saws the wood that I split by hand to heat my house. Many other examples of a manly lifestyle abound. I also live in a neat (but "busy" at times), clean house, wear clean clothes and eat well. 

My great Grandmother, the daughter of Swedish and Finnish immigrants raised 5 boys and 3 girls on the farm after great Grandpa died. I'm pretty sure there were some "blurred lines" there too.

Referring to her as "manly" would probably have put you in the same condition as the term "metrosexual" will get you around here.

While some on both sides intentionally cross the line, the cultural stuff goes out the window to the degree one chooses when reality sets in.


----------



## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

I think until up to recent history our physical differences have mattered more than they do now. Men, in general, are bigger and stronger than women and, in a man/woman relationship the bigger person naturally gravitated to the heavier work, building, chopping, plowing, digging, etc. Maybe if the woman was the stronger one in the relationship she did the heavy work but I doubt that was the norm. I think, in spite of tools becoming lighter and machinery around now to do the bulk of the heavy work, you still see more men in the stereotypical jobs of trades and construction.

I've been single most of my life and I do everything here from building and renovation and fixing the vehicles to cooking, cleaning and laundry. I don't look at anything as women's work. Whether you're a man or a woman, if you want it clean, clean it, if you want to eat, cook, if you want the oil changed on your vehicle, change it. If it falls to the bigger and stronger one of the couple to do the heavy jobs, so be it.

I don't think technology has made it easier for a man to learn how to cook. Women learned to cook from their mothers and grandmothers, no reason a man can't learn the same way.


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Men now can, however, learn to cook from watching the youtubes and that was not always the case.

I am small even for a female, and I can tell you that there are tools on the market that us small people find easier to use. 50 years ago you NEVER saw a chainsaw with an 8 inch blade, but that is how mine is. And, I have a set of loppers that needs far les muscle to use than the ones I used as a young woman.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Guy, Girls learned how to cook starting from the time they started school, IF their moms were good cooks themselves. They wanted their girls to be likewise. I don't think men had a want or reason to learn to cook until they got married and found their wives couldn't cook, as in my case with the last, OR they got divorced and thought they should learn to cook. By that time, perhaps there moms were either gone, or had forgot all the receipts they had had in their heads for decades, as with my mom towards the end.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

> Why does it seem there is a growing role reversal among the sexes?


Necessity and reality, IMO.

In the old days - for the most part, men worked the farms and ran business, the women took care of the house and children.

It sort of made sense, since both roles were pretty arduous, so there was usually little need to overlap.

When women started working next to men, it started to make less sense, why the woman should still go home to make dinner, while the man rested and watched TV. Maybe because he would still mow the grass or fix the car, but now the gardener and Ford mechanic often does that.

As far as metro sexual, some of it might just be ego and changing sexual norms, which were one hidden.

I laugh at truck drivers, who flip out because they might have to drive a semi tractor, with and automatic shift transmission, like it's not "manly".


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I laugh at truckers also, or used to. Used to be, they were dirty/greasy kind of guys, who looked plenty tough if an occasion arouse to prove it, and there cabs was likewise. Now, they nearly live in them, and fat people, both men and women drive them.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

I think survival has always been the great motivator for the things we do. Many women use to marry for economic survival and many men who lost their wives due to illness or divorce would often marry quickly to gain a nanny for their children. Or one family I know when the mother died of cancer the father gave up his 5 children to the state and married the babysitter. And he had a real good job... That action caused so much heartache for his children for the next 50 years.

Women and older people of both sexes gain from having those lighter weight tools available. Also, having flexibility in the roles/job duties reduce the amt. of criticism from family and society in general which should make for a happier couple/family. 

The key for any partnership to work is respect for each other and honesty. No matter who cooks the meals or splits the wood without those two values it just isn't going to work out too well...


----------



## Victorianpdx (Aug 14, 2015)

I think there are many realities at play here...more people not having a partner to share the load with, more people with two income homes where it doesn't make sense to say the one that stays home does the house work, more attention paid to teaching boys to cook and girls to change car oil are examples. 

As a single mom, I know that I do most of the "woman" chores and many of the "man" chores. However, I am not above calling in my brother to do stuff if I am in over my head. However, I COULD do the stuff I ask him to do if I knew how. Learning how is on my to-do list.

I also wonder how much of our belief in strict gender line work is true. I don't see Pa not holding the baby while Ma makes the bread if he is sitting at the table. I suspect men have always helped around the house and women have helped with the outside chores. Having hired help would not be feasible for most people. History is written by the upper class in most cases.


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

When I was growing up it was a matter of pride for some young men to have never done any housework. At all. But, my Mom taught my brothers vary basic cooking so that they could take care of themselves when they moved out. 

Then again, we have the diary of a lady homesteader that we were descended from, and she often mentions plowing after she got out of school. They used to do that to trap the snow, to get more water to the soil

I think that who did what varied from family to family.


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

When I was in high school I took both home economics and business and office education in addition to my advance science classes because in addition to knowing the two classes would make it easier living by myself without the need of a resident female if I chose and BOE worked well with the computer information systems aspects of my engineering path.

Plus being the only straight guy in a class of 25 made lining up dates a lot easier after the girls got past the nerd factor and realized that I was after the same things as the other guys and having a $9 an hour part time job in the engineering section of a local contractor in addition to the income from my home electronics repair shop, they all knew I could take them out on better dates than the rest of the guys could.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I took cooking for one year at 4H for the same reasons Jay. That was in the LATE 50s/ EARLY 60


----------



## FarmerJoe (Nov 14, 2009)

With 5 boys and 1 girl in the family we all had to help with the housework and canning. My mother made sure we learned basic cooking and how to follow a recipe. She didn't want her boys going out into the world and have to worry about them going hungry!


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

With 2 boys at the time, We had to help do the canning, the garden, filling and emptying the washing machine, hanging out the clothes. ironing some of the clothes


----------



## tamarackreg (Mar 13, 2006)

Terri said:


> When I was growing up it was a matter of pride for some young men to have never done any housework. At all.


That's how I was. Then I started camping in my late teens / early 20's which made cooking a necessity. That experience carried over and grew when I moved out on my own. I don't follow recipes too much, just cook to taste, except on the rare occasion that I bake. Still don't do anything "fancy" but I can put on a good home cooked meal, grill and cook over an open fire. In the end most of my meals are for just me now - healthy, quick, simple, and not out of a box.

Laundry, housekeeping, etc., just kind of fell into place as a necessity so I don't live in a pig sty. I keep my house "presentable" although it's rare that anyone else is here. LOL


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

bout the same way here


----------



## FarmChix (Mar 3, 2013)

I think we call those very feminine women a "princess". LOL


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

yup, unlessyour married to one and living on a farm lol


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

FarmboyBill said:


> yup, unlessyour married to one and living on a farm lol


 If your married to a fashionista pricess and living on the farm , you call her out of place, you out of your mind and most often you also out of at least half of all you own within 5 to 7 years max of sweating blood if you said the two dumbest words in the male language in most cases


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Yup. That's about right Jay. I know for sure. U mean the 2 words with the 3 letters? lol


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol I think it's the young drivers that see 18 wheels and 18 gears as cool after a few years a lot of drivers would be happy with a magic carpet.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

We here in America we depend on the big trucks to keep us supplied with food and other necessities. I am grateful for their work. 

I wonder if there has ever been studies over a period of time to see what sitting in the cab does to the overall health and especially their kidneys? Is it a profession that a person, man or woman, can do for 30 yrs. and still have a relatively healthy body when they retire? 

I always drove manual trans. from my first car to my 30's decade. While I would still like to have one on good days I wouldn't want one for city driving in my old, not so good days...


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

I've got 27 years now, trucks have changed so much over the years mine is probably more comfortable than your p/u lol.
Alot of big trucks even have autos in them now, I rented a truck awhile back that had one, and was really tempted to incorporate an auto into my truck build, they are really nice.

For me the worst is the lower legs but I combat that by walking the dog every 150 miles or so.


----------



## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

I'll be 30 years driving for a living next year, in everything from pickups to heavy trucks. I'm looking to get out and find something else. It's not at all like it was when I started. We have speed limiters here in Ontario set for 105km/hr max that just make driving boring. We can't even take a run at a hill anymore. Add in MTO inspectors with an attitude, traffic clogging up most roadways and some new traffic laws in the city that make it nearly impossible to get around anymore and the aggravation just isn't worth it. Fortunately, I've hauled mostly construction equipment and water which is specialized work compared to hauling general freight so it made the job much more interesting but it's just not worth the stress anymore. Add winter on top of that and it's getting a bit too much. I've talked to a lot of guys with many years in who would like to get out and find something else to to.

Yes, there are more women driving trucks these days but you mostly see them in general freight where there is not much heavy lifting. I've been in the construction industry for a long time and I can't remember ever seeing a woman hauling equipment, delivering materials (except concrete but also only a couple) or driving specialized vehicles like vacuum trucks, cranes or drill trucks, etc. I think there are industries where women are just not very likely to make much of a dent in, likely primarily because of the physical factor.

Interesting thread drift...lol


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

My last preacher started driving in his late 20s. He showed us pic of him when he was young and had just started driving. He was a muscular wrestler in HS. When I knew him, in the mid late 90s. he was FAT, and stayed FAT. He was also a drunk. Being fat, and the miserys that are usually associated with it, and pill popping and drinking finally killed him.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

light rain said:


> We here in America we depend on the big trucks to keep us supplied with food and other necessities. I am grateful for their work.
> 
> I wonder if there has ever been studies over a period of time to see what sitting in the cab does to the overall health and especially their kidneys? Is it a profession that a person, man or woman, can do for 30 yrs. and still have a relatively healthy body when they retire?
> 
> I always drove manual trans. from my first car to my 30's decade. While I would still like to have one on good days I wouldn't want one for city driving in my old, not so good days...


It really seems like it depends on the person. Long hauling can be a tough way to make a living because a lot are paid by the mile so many push as hard as they can to get a decent cheque. The transient lifestyle does have certain effects on the body and dental care and frequent medical care (other than meeting licensing requirements) seem to get forgotten until the need is serious.

My son is in the heavy hauling sector and it's quite a bit different and while their days can be long, they do have a certain amount of time off and while it's a specialized area, they're much better paid than usual owner/operators or hired drivers, benefits are provided and their permits strictly regulate driving times (daylight, no hauling on certain high traffic times, etc) so they tend to be more inclined to get out and eat proper meals and they seem to have time to participate in fitness programs. 

We own our own company but the big guy gets in a truck and hauls equipment every day and like any other trade, after 25 years, he suffers from a certain amount of aches and pains.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Thanks for the first hand knowledge of the work. I hope more research will investigate how truckers can stay as healthy as possible while doing their job.


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

I remember when an OTR tractor was cab over and when riding with my uncle I sat in the sleeper about the size of a sofa.

Now the frames are stretched enough that the sleeper is more of a 10 to 12 foot long tag behind camper with kitchenette . Some even have camper style toilet/shower stalls also.

Although the driver's compartment rivals a plane cockpit now, the seats on the rigs I have rode in are comfortable air ride space foam filled first class seats.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

FarmboyBill said:


> Its funny how, It seems that the men of this country today, much more than the women are noticed to be, or show their feminine side much more than it is noticed that women have come to show there masculine side. Terms like Metrosexual men have sprung up to show a breaking down of the supposed maniy qualities that our dads and granddads seemed to have. Ive wondered a bit as to why that is.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrosexual

_*Metrosexual*_ is a portmanteau, derived from _metropolitan_ and _sexual_, coined in 1994 describing a man (especially one living in an urban, post-industrial, capitalist culture) who is especially meticulous about his grooming and appearance, typically spending a significant amount of time and money on shopping as part of this.[1] The neologistic term is popularly thought to describe heterosexual men who adopt fashions and lifestyles stereotypically associated with homosexual men. While the term suggests that a metrosexual is heterosexual, it can be used to refer to anyone with any sexual orientation.[2]





> I came to a conclusion that, it may be because, men have taken to housework, and cooking, and most of us know of a man who is a great housekeeper and fine cook. I imagine that nearly all of us know some woman who cant cook, wont cook, and is a poor housemaker. Then again, My sister is a great carpenter, whereas Im a lousy carpenter. *Why does it seem there is a growing role reversal among the sexes?*


My tinfoil hat is in the other room......but.......why?
Because for the last 30 years, 'educational institutions' have been femininzing boys. Elevating women, demonizing men.

Giving males a free pass when then breed, holding them 0% accountable, and women have had to play both mother AND father.

Women are sick of being under a mans thumb and has figured out how to do 90% of what needs done on her own?



> Could it be that modernization has made it easier for men to keep house and cook, and made tools more usable for women? I think so. I can remember dad having a Homelite chain saw that was HEAVY, I had a saw like it also when in my EARLY 20s. NOW, they have what I call butter cutters, that one can operate with one hand. They have electric chain saws that have a fair length of blade yet are really light. I see tiny looking saws on TV that can cut wood/metal great. Aluminum ladders, all sorts of tools that are made expressly for either slight men or women to handle them.
> On the other side, MWs have turned cooking around. That and U Tubes, which can tell a man how to cook, can, preserve, and prepare food in any way, makes it easy for a man so inclined to be able to be a fine cook. Any man, so inclined can also be a great housekeeper, if he so chooses.
> I think these lines will meld and blur more as time goes on. To what end is anybodys guess. But what do I know?


When the weather breaks, I will use UTube to work on my Jeep.
Between a manual and a UTube video, I should be able to get it done!!
I taught myself how to lay down insulation and hang drywall by renting a VHS tape at the library....It needed done, and no one else in the house was going to do it.....so I figured it out.:goodjob:

I taught my son basic household maintenance.......he knows how to read a recipe, bargain shop for the ingredients, and how to bring it all together to make a meal. He knows and appreciates a clean and clutter free home, and knows how to maintain that status! I wanted him to be able to live on his own, and do it well, not live in squaller waiting for some 'woman' to clean him up. :clap:


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Having no girls, my mom raised us about the same way.


----------



## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Hey Bill...have you heard from Chuck in the past three months or so?

Mon


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

frogmammy said:


> Hey Bill...have you heard from Chuck in the past three months or so?
> 
> Mon


He posts here a few times a week.


http://homesteadingfamilies.proboards.com/board/18/gardening


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Nope, I havnt


----------



## Huckleberrie (Sep 23, 2015)

Men have egos. They say they want a woman who is independent and can take care of everything. They want a woman who is able to do it all. Their talk is all bs. Deep down the truth is a man needs to feel like a man. Men want a princess but not a diva.


----------



## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

oneraddad said:


> He posts here a few times a week.
> 
> 
> http://homesteadingfamilies.proboards.com/board/18/gardening


Thanks, ORD, but I'm talking about oxankle....wrong Chuck!

Mon


----------



## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

FarmboyBill said:


> Nope, I havnt


I've sent him a couple emails over the last four months, heard nothing back. Thought it might have been because of the holidays.

Mon


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Huck, Men don't want a diva for sure, and they may, at least the men on here not necessarily want a princess, BUT, the men , at least I think the men on here want a woman who is informed, and handy. My sister is an accomplished carpenter, and I have all the respect in the world in her abilities.


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

frogmammy said:


> Thanks, ORD, but I'm talking about oxankle....wrong Chuck!
> 
> Mon


So am I, I've been reading his posts since he left here. He also posts some in the outdoor forum.


----------



## RichNC (Aug 22, 2014)

frogmammy said:


> Thanks, ORD, but I'm talking about oxankle....wrong Chuck!
> 
> Mon


He, like ORD said, posted a post about Jung's seeds about 20 or so hours ago on the forum ORD linked.


----------



## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Guess that could be him....odd that it says he joined HT last year, though.

Mon


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

frogmammy said:


> Guess that could be him....odd that it says he joined HT last year, though.
> 
> Mon



He joined when Melissa started the forum, it's him guaranteed.


----------



## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

I think there's a difference between oxankle and Oxankle.

oxankle joined in 2015

Oxankle joined in 2003

Looks like two different ones.

Mon


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

frogmammy said:


> I think there's a difference between oxankle and Oxankle.
> 
> oxankle joined in 2015
> 
> ...


There was no Homesteading Families in 2003, it was started in 2015


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

I've been following his story about fixing up his new little homestead and his fishing adventures. They just got back from a trip to New Orlean, sounds like he's doing well.


----------



## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Oh, ok. Thanks, ORD!

Mon


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Good to know.


----------



## Huckleberrie (Sep 23, 2015)

FarmboyBill said:


> Huck, Men don't want a diva for sure, and they may, at least the men on here not necessarily want a princess, BUT, the men , at least I think the men on here want a woman who is informed, and handy. My sister is an accomplished carpenter, and I have all the respect in the world in her abilities.


I know. Men all say that but they do the opposite. They always stick with the princess. They say they want an equal but they don't. They want to feel in charge and provide. Men don't want to compete with a woman and lose.


----------



## MattB4 (Jan 3, 2016)

Huckleberrie said:


> I know. Men all say that but they do the opposite. They always stick with the princess. They say they want an equal but they don't. They want to feel in charge and provide. Men don't want to compete with a woman and lose.


Problem with your statement is it assigns a characteristic of a subset of men to all men. It is like saying all men are abusers. Or all men cheat. It may be true for that subset but is not true for the population at large.

Funny enough, studies of career driven women show that they are much more likely to be dissatisfied if their mate is not producing as much or more than she. Is that all women? Or just those that are ambitious, power seeking?


----------

