# Bill to ban use of lead ammo across calif.



## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

"SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) â A proposal to ban lead ammunition in California to keep the toxin from poisoning scavengers that eat gut piles left when hunters dress animals in the field promises to revive a debate between gun groups and environmental advocates. Final language of the bill was introduced Monday by Assembly Member Anthony Rendon, D-Lakewood, who said that after lead bans in paint, gasoline, children's toys, and in shells used by hunters of waterfowl, the legislation would remove a lingering source of pollution from the environment."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2996054/posts

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## wildcat6 (Apr 5, 2011)

What a joke. Sure glad I don't live there.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Most lead that shot the animal isn't left in a gut pile... 

And like there's really all that much stray lead slugs littering the forest...

To me, it sounds like one more way to make ammo very expensive, and harder to acquire since there's not a lot of non lead options out there for non lead pistol and rifle ammo..


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

It will make stock piles of lead ammo useless....of course it's on purpose to make law abiding citizens criminal by a swift change of laws. If folks don't belong to the NRA...it's time for you join the fight!
brownegg


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

What is killing the scavengers in CA isn't the lead in ammo....it's the chrome and plastic used in auto bumpers and grills along with some casualties from rubber tires.


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## CHOUTS (Dec 4, 2012)

i used to live there and it is just as bad as it seems. my friends and i used to go shooting at this outdoor range all the time. it was just a valley in the hills. everyone who shot out there basically had their spots and knew what areas were safe to shoot certain guns. one day they decided to shut the gates for 6 months to revamp the place. when the gates opened we went up there and they had put up signs and maps to tell you that now you can only shoot this type of firearm (shotgun, pistol, rifle) from this particular spot directly at this other particular spot. common sense would tell you that maybe it was a safety issue. nope...it was because of the amount of lead in certain ammunitions would collect in common target areas and they thought the animals would get sick. a few months after all the changes, the range got shut down permanently because someone got shot due to the placement of two spots. the people who run that state havent got a lick of common sense.


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## RonM (Jan 6, 2008)

Getting like that lack of common sense everywhere.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Steel shot costs as much as lead shot nowdays. What they're worried about is the rare California condor which DOES scavenge on dead animals that have died from various methods including being shot. Lead is extremely toxic to birds. I have a friend who runs a raptor rescue and approximately 75% of the birds that come in are ill from ingesting lead from fish, and critters that they catch. The birds have to undergo special treatment to get their blood rid of the lead content. He told me it can take as little as ONE pellet of lead to make a bird ill. Lots of raptors also hunt ducks which tend to survive being shot and carry lead pellets. Main reason people shoot with lead is because they think that lead shoots better than steel. It could well be true. I just think it's because lead shot used to be cheaper than steel shot.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Ted

Lead is denser than steel, so the shot has a higher ballistic coefficient and does not lose velocity as quickly as steel.

There are denser non-toxics (bismuth for one) but they cost even more.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> He told me it can take as little as ONE pellet of lead to make a bird ill. Lots of raptors also hunt *ducks which tend to survive being shot and carry lead pellets*.
> Main reason people shoot with lead is because *they think that lead shoots better* than steel. It could well be true. I just think it's because lead shot used to be cheaper than steel shot.


Lead IS better
It's all about hardness and density

And Lead shot had been *illegal for waterfowl* all over the US for DECADES now, so your friend is terribly misinformed


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

What am i supposed to put in my muzzle loader? Silly putty?


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## Pugnacious (May 17, 2012)

Ross said:


> What am i supposed to put in my muzzle loader? Silly putty?


I don't think a ball itself constitutes ammo.

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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I don't think a ball itself constitutes ammo.


They aren't banning "ammo"
They want to ban* LEAD*


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## Pugnacious (May 17, 2012)

I see. So the title of the post is wrong? I was just commenting on what wss stated.

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## Pugnacious (May 17, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Lead IS better
> It's all about hardness and density
> 
> And Lead shot had been *illegal for waterfowl* all over the US for DECADES now, so your friend is terribly misinformed


 
Facts are inconvenient.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Ross said:


> What am i supposed to put in my muzzle loader? Silly putty?


Sabot containing a Barnes all copper projectile.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/components/muzzleloader/expander-mz-2/


Tim


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

They ain't coming to get your guns they say...

But it's pretty dang hard to shoot them without bullets.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> So the title of the post is* wrong*?


No, because it says *"Lead* ammo", not "*all* ammo"


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## Pugnacious (May 17, 2012)

Again. I don't think a ball itself constitutes ammo. 

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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Again. I don't think a ball itself constitutes ammo.


Again, you'd be mistaken
The balls are LEAD, and since they are *fired from a gun*, they are therefore "ammunition"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ammunition
*amÂ·muÂ·niÂ·tion*



> /&#716;Ã¦m
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Pugnacious (May 17, 2012)

Again. Muzzleloaders do NOT meet the standards that a FIREARM would meet and is NOT classified as such. Therefore a lead ball by itself PROBABLY doesn't meet the standard of ammunition. Depending on how the law is written, in this case.

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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

From the California Fish and Game website (bolding is mine):

"If you hunt in this area, you will be required to use nonlead *projectiles* to hunt big-game and non-game species beginning July 1, 2008. In addition, while hunting these species in this area hunters may not possess any lead *projectiles*/ammunition and a firearm capable of firing that lead *projectile* or ammunition".

Muzzle loaders are clearly covered by this law.


Tim


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## Pugnacious (May 17, 2012)

Thanks tarbe, clearly they covered their bases. In Utah, they will/would actually pay for nonlead ammunition for people hunting in the condor area.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

I think ammo still has lead here in Kansas. I'll double check.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Sabot containing a Barnes all copper projectile.


Those work *if *the rate of twist is fast enough

Many guns are 1 in 48, which is a little too slow for *optimum* performance with conicals, and lots of guns are 1 in 64, which is meant for round ball only

Most of the "modern" ML's are around 1 in 28


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