# Jersey jaw abscess



## kirsten (Aug 29, 2005)

Okay, one last try to pick everyone's brains altogether on my calf's abscess.

I have started to inject the iodine into the open draining areas. When I began this,I started to see more of the abscess coming out, thicker and stringier than just pus which I was glad about because that is the only way it can really shrink if ever it will. But after 4 injections of iodine, I see no progress, no drying up. I am just curious how long this takes? I suppose the larger the abscess the longer? How long was the longest time one of you treated this abscess?

And francis, I didn't say it looked like afterbirth. Or at least, I meant to say that I use the principle of leaving it hang to pull out more of it. You never grab at afterbirth. Right? Right.( Except in the case of humans. That sucked! LOL)

My vet who saw the calf said that iodine doesn't really work and he also said that the abscess may never go away and never stop draining. I don't want to give up though. I also would like to try some antibiotics. I was thinking nuflor since that would kill too birds with one stone- his drinking his milk too fast. I also gave up on the bucket calf thing. I think it is a piece of cake to bottle feed a calf once a day after years of having to get up every 6 hours to feed lambs!

As an aside, I am super keen on nuflor. I had a gimpy lamb with joint ill and I treated her forever with penn and she still limped so I asked the vet for a different drug and he gave nuflor and she fully recovered. The vet thought she would limp for life. 

Another note: this calf who won't eat calf baby food, had at it today with the lambs and their cracked corn and pellets. This always happens to me! I can't get my calves to eat alone but then they compete (poorly) with the sheep for their meals. So I am not sure that chewing is so painful for him since he prefers cracked corn and pellets! nevertheless, I gave him calf, sheep and chicken feed in his trough today to get him to eat anything by his lonesome.... no go yet. Maybe by the morning but then again, the chickens will tackle it all before I even wake up to check! Do I need another calf, I wonder? I have two calves but they have mothers and my little calf is too stinky to join the herd. How much meat do I need? And how long can you let a cow go before butchering for the best meat? I guess I don't even know that!

OKay thanks!
PS. I will post a photo tomorrow. Oh, I just looked at it. URL? I thought it would allow me to browse through my computer files to upload a photo.... I guess I need this explained too!


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

I always nick the knot, sqeeze like heck all the junk out. Now you have a opening to flush the cavity out with iodine. The hole should be big enough to insert a 6ml syringe into the wound. You nick it with a razor blade or scalple. I'm not telling you to do this I'm like telling what I have done....Can't wait to see the photos.


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## kirsten (Aug 29, 2005)




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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

No picture appeared. If you get frustrated send it to my e-mail address and I'll post it for you.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I need to see a picture. Make sure the opening is on the bottom side of the abscess, and your vet is wrong about the iodine, it will help. You may have to get some gauze and soak it in iodine and pack it, I did this with a horse one time and it helped alot. Antbiotics is the next step, I think you can do this. Don`t ever think a Vet knows everything, they don`t. They are just like medical doctors, some are very good and some should never have gone to school. Want to see that picture . >Thanks Marc


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

I'm with Marc on the vet thing. I feel that if this illness is truly diagnosed as an abcess, iodine and nuflor or resflor (nuflor and bantamine mixed) is the best treatment. I'm interested in seeing a pic. It could possibly be a cancer or some major infection that's gonna take some antibiotics to let it start healing from the inside out. (if it's a cancer iodine isn't going to help and neither are the antibiotics.) I've not seen to many (if any that I can remember) on a calf though.


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## kirsten (Aug 29, 2005)




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## kirsten (Aug 29, 2005)

another try


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## matt_man (Feb 11, 2006)

You need to upload the pic to flickr or photobucket or picasa and copy and paste the img code for it to appear.


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## kirsten (Aug 29, 2005)

Well, I am certain of what it is. While I have never had a calf with this, I have raised sheep for years and green pus is actinobacillus. It is lanced on the underside correctly in several places. The vet did use an iodine solution but intravenously. He squeezed out all the liquid pus that would go and I have done that too on several occasions, though there is little at this point, mostly scar tissue. When you see the pics, perhaps you can guestimate the amount of time it may take to heal up given its size? 

I'll get the nuflor tomorrow. I forgot today.
thanks!


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Pictures have been posted as a new thread. Advice need quickly....Topside


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Personally, I'm going to take a step back to the side of conservancy here and say I'd treat the animal with some type of antibiotic, (maybe even some Pen-G), use iodine on it another time or two, and sit back and watch. That scar tissue you're seeing there that has became hard will shrink a little. (maybe not completely)

If I remember correctly, this is a bull calf right? Just get his infection cured and pour the feed to him so he can be turned into steaks!


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

OK, first off. Most calves that develop lumps or abbcesses on the jaw line are from a bacteria entering the gum line. The bacteria is commonly found in the mouths of sucking calves. It helps to digest the milk and keep the calf health. But, sometimes it has adverse effects on them. Most notablly you will see this with calves sucking each other. For the most part they just swell up and never fester out like yours did. In this case it did not drain into the mouth but built up a scare barrier on the inside and caused it to break and drain out. Flushing with iodine will due 2 things. It will cleans the wound and also dry and seal up the good tissue. By doing this it will help the healing process and slow the spread of the infection into teh good tissue. Also I have never tyred anything other then pen-g on calves with this. If it wass me I would just use the pen-g due to the cost of nuflur and also irragate the area after flushing it with some pen-g. This way your fighting the infection from the inside and outside. You can tell by the discharge from the eye the calf has the infection spreading and needs antibiotics. I would suggest a dose of 10 cc's of pencillin for 4 or more days till a noticable difference is seen.
Bob


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## kirsten (Aug 29, 2005)

Okay penn-g it is. And I have been treating aggressively and making no progress, that is why I keep bothering you guys to pick your brains.  it is stubborn infection! Had it been my calf, it would not have gone so far nor been left untreated so long. I'll give updates.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

topside1 said:


> Pictures have been posted as a new thread. Advice need quickly....Topside


This is a link to the thread with a picture.

As for what I would do, I'd cut between the two visible holes to allow really good drainage, then flush it out thoroughly, then use iodine twice daily until it dries up. Pen-G is also a good idea.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Narshalla said:


> Ok, I wouldn`t cut between the holes, this calf can`t take this much more, this needs to be flushed with Iodine/saline solution several times a day and squeeze out all the pus. Pennicilen(sp) is your next step. you need to get that crap out of there, and try to keep it clean. And I to think that the lump will not go away completley. >Thanks Marc


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)




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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

It's your calf, but if one of mine had something that looks that nasty, I'd surely have the vet out to take care of it properly, prescribe the correct antibiotic (Nuflor is usually for respiratory disease and sometimes footrot, isn't it?). You are bottle feeding this baby just once a day? Something just isn't right about all of this, including the abscess treatment, and I fear the calf is going to pay.


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

I agree, Do not cut between the holes. Could be to much live tissue there and cause a real bad bled. Also it could be 2 abcesses that broke open and not even a common cavitiy.
Bob


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

I'm with Mark on this one. The holes are there, as I mention a few days ago you need to squeeze like heck and get all the junk out of the cavity. It's not a barrel of fun but it's what I see needs to be done. Ask the Vet who visited what their thoughts are? You have paid them once so now it's time for some free advice. I'm sure they will recommend exactly what Marc wrote in post # 16. Be aware the calf will probably pass out during the squeezing, it won't be fun. Topside


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Incredibly, this condition is usually caused by your calves eating stemmy hay or hay with briars in it...Splinters, thorns, metal, etc. I've learned that grass hay is best for young calves...Topside


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Oh, I forgot to mention wear disposable gloves when you work on this calf, and a clothspin on your nose. I don`t think you need to call the Vet., not that one anyway. He ain`t much of a vet if he hasn`t figured out what to do before now. I`d give the calf 10cc. pen, the first day and 8cc. the next two, on the third day give some probiotic to get the guts going again. Flush that wound with Iodine/saline solution, and squeeze all the pus out you can, and keep doing that several times a day for a couple days. Make sure that the flies don`t get in it. >Thanks Marc


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

topside1 said:


> Incredibly, this condition is usually caused by your calves eating stemmy hay or hay with briars in it...Splinters, thorns, metal, etc. I've learned that grass hay is best for young calves...Topside


Yes the debris causes the irrataion but teh bacteria from the salava causes the infection. I have seen alot of swllen jaws over the years on calves that are not eating hard food yet. Mostly been seen in jerseys that cross suck each others navals. Seledomly is there anything ever found in the gum area of the calf if you where to do a inspection to find the cause. 

Have you ever had a calf nick your knuckles or fingers when they are done sucking the bottle? Seems like they can feaster up over night. Also this is why calves that suck cows and bottles do better then bucket calves. They make more salava to digest the milk better and utilize what they take in. To do so the salava is loaded with bacteria.
Bob


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## DroppedAtBirth (Sep 23, 2010)

Don't know much at all about calves, but if that were a person they'd clean the infection all the way out (incision and drainage) and then pack the cavity and leave a "wick" hanging out through the opening in order to make sure it heals from the inside out. Healing too fast on the exterior sets you up for a repeat round of infection if ANY of the bacteria are still present in the cavity. Then the person would get a course of antibiotics in addition to the wound care. Again, I don't know if the same is recommended with calves, but if it were mine, I would ask the vet about it.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

DroppedatBirth you have a PM....Kristen how's the calf? Update?


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