# I retract everything I've said about trusting the census takers



## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

(Angie, if you need to move this to GC, that's cool. Or maybe CF, but it might get really political there?)

I don't want to set off a tinfoil hat they're out to get me thread...but Oh my god. I'm watching an interview with a woman who had a census taker appear at her door, who "gave me the creeps". She thought she recognized him. She looked up the sex offender registration, and VOILA! there he was. 

He'd used an alias to get into the job. Lied on the application. .... now...I'd been told that everyone is fingerprinted if they make it thru the first round of tests. ... Yes, they're fingerprinted. BUT the fingerprints aren't checked until MUCH LATER...AFTER they're sent out to gather information! <insert jaw dropping smiley>

so...*I APOLOGIZE to all of you who didn't want an unknown person gathering your info.* (I still think you should have sent in the info before hand in the mail..but I'm getting nervous about THAT, too)

sweet mother of god.....The Census bureaucrat who responded to the , er, problem, said "budgetary issues" caused the loophole. 

More and more, it's becoming necessary for personal safety to check and doublecheck IDs, paperwork, etc. Shred bills and anything with identifying markers. TRUST YOUR GUT REACTION...what's the line...Trust, but verify.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

All that said...I just "chatted" with someone I know here who's a supervisor of a group of census takers and he's flabbergasted. He says they're doing full backgrounds on EVERYONE right now.


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

The woman who came to my door was very nice. I had the screen open in my locked screen door and so I talked to her from there. She even said to just stay in, that was fine. So I did. Had it been a man I would've done the same thing but the dogs would have been allowed to be right behind me, instead of told to move off. 

That whole sex offender thing is ridiculous! If a regular person can find them, it makes you wonder about the government....sheesh.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Media/jersey-mom-busts-sex-offender-census-worker/story?id=10697733 is the ABC news blog about it (they did the interview I saw) and HERE is another news article from the local ABC affiliate from the area in NJ where it happened.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/23521443/detail.html

A registered sex offender? That's mild compared to this report. In this link, a census worker in Indiana returned to the house after collecting census information and raped and beat a 21 year old woman. 

If I can't get you to realize the potential danger in letting the GOVERNMENT have this information, then maybe y'all will at least pay attention to the extreme cases where the government's ineptitude has led to harm.


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## Bonnie L (May 11, 2002)

So now we're _all_ evil & untrustworthy? Oh my. 

But then, the government doesn't trust _you_. Census workers are not to go into homes, we are to watch our backs, park facing out the driveway in case a fast exit is needed, & carry cell phones so we can call 911 if necessary. 

Caution goes both ways.


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

There was a census worker in MO that had her dog with her and the dog bit the person in the stomach.


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## Bonnie L (May 11, 2002)

scooter said:


> There was a census worker in MO that had her dog with her and the dog bit the person in the stomach.


Well, now I know what prompted the sudden "no pets in cars" ruling!


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## Kmac15 (May 19, 2007)

Bonnie L said:


> So now we're _all_ evil & untrustworthy? Oh my.
> 
> But then, the government doesn't trust _you_. Census workers are not to go into homes, we are to watch our backs, park facing out the driveway in case a fast exit is needed, & carry cell phones so we can call 911 if necessary.
> 
> Caution goes both ways.


I have people on my street that I wouldn't just walk up to their house, and they know me :gaptooth: You are braver than I am.


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

Here's the story on the man that got bitten by the census workers dog.
http://sitfu.com/2010/05/census-workers-dog-bites-a-south-man-dan-vacca/


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Wow. Well you know what, I don't care who I offend or anger, but no, I don't trust census workers. As I stated in another census post, I"m sure the majority of them are decent people just like myself....but that doesn't mean I have ESP to know that they are decent people, and that doesn't mean I HAVE to trust them. Sorry, but I have to take care of myself first, before any other consideration.

ETA in Houston a couple of weeks ago, some criminals posing as census workers got inside a house and beat and murdered a man. No, they were not census workers, but posing as census workers. My point is that we don't know who the person is claiming to be a census worker. Badges can be made up on someone's home computer or another badge substituted. Chances are if they are close enough to hand you their badge, and they have evil intent, you're not going to actually get to see the badge...


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

JA, that is a point so many that have been saying oh this is all ok, MOST of the Census Workers are just trying to hold a job, have missed! That is true and so is it only takes a very few to ruin the reputation of all. Happens across the board, ask a mechanic or a carpenter how many times they get an "attitude" because we all know there is no such thing as an honest carpenter or mechanic (sarcasm). It does work in reverse, I wouldn't want to roll up to some of the houses here locally because I know there's bad stuff happening.
It's bad enough we mailed info in that is now being lost to "computer glitches" which, BTW, where else do you hear that being used as an excuse anymore? Slow system maybe but in my experience most computer glitches originate with basic human error. BUT, to expect people to trust the person who shows up claiming to be from the Census and expecting that Census person will handle information with a degree of professionalism and confidentialiaty is a leap of faith I am not taking!


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## stickinthemud (Sep 10, 2003)

I agree that most census workers are probably honest & just looking for a job. But this story really disturbed me- http://www.wpxi.com/news/23560365/detail.html
A census worker was accused of taking a wallet, and the wallet owner could get no response from census until they got the TV station involved. Then the census supervisor claimed that the census worker had the wallet because she had been given the it by a third party to return to the owner?? So far there has been no follow-up on TV or website. Does not inspire confidence in census security.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

wow, I feel left out. I filled out a card and mailed it in. No one came to my door.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

tab said:


> BUT, to expect people to trust the person who shows up claiming to be from the Census and expecting that Census person will handle information with a degree of professionalism and confidentialiaty is a leap of faith I am not taking!


THANK YOU! That is what I was trying to get across in the other thread but just couldn't seem to get it worded so nicely!


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

Which is why I left my screen locked and talked through the screen door with my dogs nearby. I always let the people coming to the door know that yes I'm home I'm just not coming to the door which is my right. That way they don't think the house is empty! I park in the garage which gives the impression that the house could be empty, I make sure that they are aware that I'm in here even if one of the dogs is sitting in the bay window showing teeth and making bad!

Edited to add: The information that is asked is already out there in so many forms that it just doesn't bother me anymore. Nothing you do is perfectly private.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

"If we run into such debts, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people in Englandare, our people, like them, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses; and the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they now do, on oatmeal and potatoes; have no time to think, no means of calling the mismanagers to account; _but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow sufferers._" Thomas Jefferson 

The italicized refers to *any* low-level government employee, in principle, today, as well as most of those on up the leviathon food chain.
There is little remaining room for naivety; those who take a paycheck for intruding on people's rights, convictions, privacy, provision..... not to mention _life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness_, as a matter of routine course..... are in danger of losing their very souls. 

Is that clear enough ?


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

Census guy came to our neighborhood, to my daughter's home. Hubby high-tailed it over there and met him at the front door. Information was taken for both our families with Hubby on guard. I am so grateful we are here.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Forerunner said:


> "If we run into such debts, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people in Englandare, our people, like them, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses; and the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they now do, on oatmeal and potatoes; have no time to think, no means of calling the mismanagers to account; _but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow sufferers._" Thomas Jefferson
> 
> The italicized refers to *any* low-level government employee, in principle, today, as well as most of those on up the leviathon food chain.
> There is little remaining room for naivety; those who take a paycheck for intruding on people's rights, convictions, privacy, provision..... not to mention _life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness_, as a matter of routine course..... are in danger of losing their very souls.
> ...


Sort of makes one wonder how well they would compost.


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## Bonnie L (May 11, 2002)

It makes me very unhappy to know that a simple need for a paycheck & doing a legal job to get it promotes such hostility. 

Like people have said, much of the information is out there & it is public information. What goes on the census form is NOT public information for 72 years. What's it going to matter then? You'll be dead.

The barest information needed to count - & verify that count - is first & last name of the head of household (owner/renter), the first names of everyone else in the home (even if the last names are different), & the total number of people. We are not allowed to accept one name & a total number of more than one. 

All the other information (sex, age, race, etc) is used in the aggregate only and is used by federal, state, and local communities for demographic purposes. For example, our city could learn if we need to build another grade school or an old folks home. And this is all information you can refuse to give. You just say so. No need to shout or sic the dogs on a poor census worker who just needs to earn some money.

The Census _is_ Constitutional & the right of Congress to decide what questions to ask has been upheld in law. Don't like it? Vote in representatives that don't think we should be asked questions.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

And that is exactly what people will do come the mid-terms and in 2012. 

But further... as a tax paying private citizen of this country, who is helping to foot the bill for all the governmental waste and salaries of the corrupt, self-serving sluggards in congress who would redraw congressional districts in this country via the biased, hackneyed 'census', I refuse to do any more than state the number of people in my household. No names, no ages, certainly no ethnicities or income-- nothing else, period. 

If the GOVERNMENT doesn't like that, then I am in good company with what must be literally millions of other people who have done the same as I. And yes, we will vote accordingly.

Bonnie, I am sorry you are taking this so personally. No one here has said "all census workers" are bad, as you stated in your post. Some of us have had bad experiences in the past and refuse to open ourselves up to the same again.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

America needs good people on the inside of the corrupt system who can leak information, thwart the machinery of tyranny, and stand for America when the rest of their colleagues turn against us.

What we don't need is more propaganda after it's already been proven false.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

If you have lost trust in the "Census Workers" based on the actions of a few, then I would hate to see all the police, firemen, officers of the courts and etc.....that you would not trust, as I am positive that with a little bit of research we can provide links and such for all those and many more professions that have a few bad apples in them......

Not to say that you are wrong, but to generalize a large group based upon the actions of a few...well, guess it just goes to show......

Heck, we had a local fire-fighter get arrested for stealing while on the job, does that mean that I should not trust any firemen based on the actions of one (or a few in this case)? 

Little extreme no?


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

I filled out the form and mailed it off and still had a census worker show up. We sat on the porch swing on the front porch and I gave him the basic data. I politely said I wasn't going to give out additional info and he was fine with that. After he wrote the info down, we talked about politics and a few other things and parted very amiably.

Every job has a few bad apples and mostly decent folks. I figure we should all apply common precautions and otherwise relax.


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## Rocktown Gal (Feb 19, 2008)

The census worker came by here on Saturday. I sent the form in with number listed as to living here. 

I knew when he showed up who it was...but then he disappeared...I was watching him...anyway I go out and asked him could I help him...he said I am trying to find a way to the front door...I said the front door is right here...he said I was trying to get there from the side walk...okay...our sidewalk is up by the garage and is blocked by some junk we have there. 

TODAY THE COUNTY SHOWED UP BECAUSE WE HAD A JUNK COMPLAINT. Can I say that census worker better not come back by here. Because I still only answered the how many people live here and told him I would not answer any more. He was nice and said okay...and then today happened.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Faughts Run Farm said:


> TODAY THE COUNTY SHOWED UP BECAUSE WE HAD A JUNK COMPLAINT. Can I say that census worker better not come back by here. Because I still only answered the how many people live here and told him I would not answer any more. He was nice and said okay...and then today happened.


I've never really bought the whole "it's a job and I just need the money" excuse a lot of these people give. There are PLENTY of other jobs that don't require you to poke your nose in someone else's business.

Rather, I think a lot of these folks (surely not all, but many) are naturally inclined busybodies who like having some perception of authority and enjoy a chance to go snooping around. You notice the census worker who "just needed a job" didn't quote you a price on how much he'd charge to haul away your junk for you.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Maybe I have lost faith in census workers based on the actions of a few. But I will not chastise myself for being distrustful. As I stated, the safety of myself and family comes first, before any other consideration.

Again, as I stated in this thread and another, I am sure most census workers are good and decent people. But I cannot, and will not, risk my own or my family's safety when the census worker is approaching my house any more than I would from any other stranger approaching my house. After all, they are ALL strangers to me, and sadly in this world we simply don't know who is harmful and who is not. After all, if I were to walk up to your door with a satchel and some sort of identification badge hung around my neck, how would anyone here react? I could be a census worker, I could be from the federal, state, county or city government coming to harass you, I could be a criminal either casing the place or planning to knock you in the head as soon as you open the door, or I could be selling Girl Scout cookies or some equivalent. Harmful or harmless? You can't tell and therefore must be cautious. 

As for police, firemen, etc.... I have personally not had any negative experiences with them, so am at this point not distrustful. I have two family members who are policemen, and my nephews are on the local VFD, and give very selflessly of themselves. 

Of course this is all just my two cents. Your mileage may vary, as they say...

Erine, I agree. If I really had to earn some money quickly, I would personally rather go sack groceries or flip hamburgers than go around this area (fairly rural, some shabby, some upscale) going onto people's private property and knocking on doors. Heck, I'd be in fear of my own life, based on some of the places I've seen around here. No way would I want to go knock on their door and demand information from them.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

JuliaAnn said:


> As for police, firemen, etc.... I have personally not had any negative experiences with them, so am at this point not distrustful. I have two family members who are policemen, and my nephews are on the local VFD, and give very selflessly of themselves.


I did not read where you had the negative experience with a census taker, just that you saw it on TV...... oops there......

So if you have not had a negative experience, why are you distrustful?

I am not chastising you, just curious. By using your statement above, you should be trusting, at least until you experience something negative firsthand, no?

I have no problem opening my door, do it all the time. Last week, helped a lady whose tire had blown and found out that she was a friend of my mother, small world.

I am very cautious, always aware of my surroundings, but I am not scared. To live that way would be very stressful and in my opinion, not the way I want to live.

Apologies if I read your first post wrong and it was indeed you having a negative experience.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

joseph97297 said:


> I did not read where you had the negative experience with a census taker, just that you saw it on TV...... oops there......
> 
> So if you have not had a negative experience, why are you distrustful?


IMO, much of it is the time we live in. I saw the places locally where the advertisements for workers were placed and know waaayyy too many locals to be "trusting". As I stated before, if the paper copies are being mishandled how do we take the leap of faith what we say is being handled correctly? 

Common Sense dictates here that with four days training these people do not have much training (probably shouldn't need much). I have worked with people that are suppposed to be respectful of privacy issues and believe me, some aren't. These are people that have ongoing training and reminders and have had them for YEARS and well, doesn't work, gossip is their forte! So, from my experience with human nature, not so trusting. This isn't just from the perspective this worker hears info, then writes it down but what does the worker SAY later??!!

Further, we have to trust that numbers and what not aren't being duplicated. If a citizen has mailed in the paper form how are we to know numbers aren't being cooked from info gathered from the field. If a computer glitch keeps some paper copies from being recorded, what's to say the info the workers get isn't recorded twice or not at all???!!!


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

BYF, you did fine in the other thread. I got exactly what you were saying. That thread and this one is like so many others where you are basically on one side of the fence or the other, not much middle ground. There was a time when I really believed things could be private and handled correctly. Having seen some of the extremely inept people that have graduated from college, some with Masters, I can only say my faith in people being able to do a job correctly is not as high as it was a few years ago. Further, the ability to keep information secure electronically is not to the level that it should be. An example I keep using over and over is the DOD has been hacked. That's a deal breaker to me.


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

joseph97297 said:


> If you have lost trust in the "Census Workers" based on the actions of a few, then I would hate to see all the police, firemen, officers of the courts and etc.....that you would not trust, as I am positive that with a little bit of research we can provide links and such for all those and many more professions that have a few bad apples in them......


the problem, in my view, is not the "few bad apples", it's the response to the bad apples.

if i buy a product and it doesn't work, i don't immediately vow to never buy that product or buy from that retailer again, i ask for a replacement or refund. if the response is sincere concern for the fixing the problem, then i'll continue to support that retailer/mfg. if they shrug their shoulders and say 'nothing i can do, you just have to put up with shoddy merchandise', only *then* have they lost my business forever.

not to pick on them, but it's a high-profile example of the attitude... look at the catholic church and the pedophile priests. of course the individual priests are a problem. but the far larger problem is the church hierarchy that allowed these problems to fester for *decades* and do nothing about it, hiding the problem, shuffling the problems around without informing people. 

for many people on this forum, gov't credibility is low, and for very good reasons. eg, FEMA and Katrina; SEC and bernie madoff. the responses to prior problems has been more of a shrug rather than an effort to create a good system. so when yet another gov't program has problems, and yet again there's lots of excuses and little action, and virtually no accountability, what reaction do you expect? how many instances where those responsible looked the other way, twiddled their thumbs, and ignored problems, do you have to see before you agree that it's a systematic problem, not isolated instances? in my opinion, every major institution in the US is corrupt -- gov't, wall street, medical care, education. reform is impossible unless people are held accountable. the census is just a small piece of the larger problem, but it's current so it will attract criticism.

--sgl


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

well, I certainly understand the issue of informational security, but that was not the intent of the OP was it? It was a personal decision about the character and such of the Census folks, based on a report from TV (not firsthand experience) I was just curious as to if that applied to other professions?

I have no reason to believe that the information given would remain secure, but unless that is another thread.......

So you have no beef from me, I freely gave the information asked, as they have it already. If you really think they do not, then bravo to you.

And personally, people have been inept at their jobs for longer than a few years ago, look at the state of the nation that many say we are in, that happened over decades, not months........ my faith in people being able to do their jobs has always been low, but I have no worries as the OP has about opening my door to folks..... just the mindset we are comfortable with, each and every one of us......


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Joseph, you misunderstood. whether intentionally or not, I don't know. I have no problem with people coming to my door. I never said I did. What I DO have a problem with now, is urging people to tell complete strangers names, ages, numbers of people in the house based on a supposed SECURE government official at the door. If someone "feels" wrong to you....do as the woman interviewed did...call the police.

My post relates an interview done on national television, which I then looked up and provided links to the relevant news articles. If you'd read them, you'd see that there is a huge gaping loophole in the way they hired the census workers. Until I saw that interview, and looked into it, I had no idea of the loophole. 

loophole: they do NOT do background checks on the people using the fingerprints (in other words, they don't know you are who you say you are) until AFTER the workers are out gathering information from thepublic under the guise of "I'm from the government, give me your info, it's the law"

This man was arrested, and he's admitted to trying to gain access to private homes, and get detailed information. There have been a couple of other cases mentioned here along the same lines. 

My post was an effort to apologize to those folks that I've told "it's safe. they've been checked. there's no reason not to give them your info" because obviously, I was wrong. 

I never said that ALL census workers are bad. Just that there is an obvious possibility of someone using the job to get info about you and your household for their OWN purposes. 

I don't need to wait for first hand experience to know that, say, wandering into Iran on a hiking trip is a BAD IDEA - because of the problems the three hikers have gone thru that have been reported by the news organizations. That's one of the purposes of watching the news...so you know what IS going on out there.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I want to address the misconception stated so succinctly in Joseph's post. The belief that the government "has this information already" so there's no real reason to withhold it.

*From Wikipedia: The Privacy Act of 1974, 5 U.S.C. Â§ 552a, Public Law No. 93-579, (Dec. 31, 1974) [1] establishes a code of fair information practice that governs the collection, maintenance, use, and dissemination of personally identifiable information about individuals that is maintained in systems of records by federal agencies*

In the early 1970's, coming full out of the Nixon era and purging the last vestiges of McCarthyism, America was undergoing a full scale shift back towards putting the power in the hands of the people instead of the state. Those few years saw the passing of both the privacy act and the freedom of information act, throwing open the light of day into the dark boardrooms and offices of government functionaries and limiting what they could and couldn't do to exchange information.

The IRS may know your income and how many dependents you claim, but they are bound by law to not disclose it to other government agencies, such as law enforcement. The only cross-department information sharing has to be approved by a judge under the documented writ of law.

_The 2010 Census is not covered under the Privacy Act of 1974._

That being the case, let me enumerate some of the concerns:

1. The 2010 Census is being largely conducted by part-time information collectors who are not adequately trained in the collection, storage, and proper usage of this information. This leads to increased risk of information theft and misuse, as we have seen already in a handful of cases, from rape to the county junk complaint.

2. The census has been historically misused by the Federal government. In this census, NO legislation was put in place nor was any effort made on the behalf of the government to put rules in place to guarantee this information will not be misused again.

3. Since this census can be accessed by law enforcement, we have the right to invoke the 5th amendment and not give information which may be used against us later.

4. Notice in the current census form there is nowhere to delineate between citizens and non-citizens. They are counting solely the number of individuals living at an address. Yet remember they are telling us this information will be used to determine the number of representatives in government our district will be given. This change occurred when the control of the census passed from the Department of Commerce to the White House and I believe it is an unprecedented move to give illegal immigrants more voting power, or at the very least empower the districts and safe havens where they live.

5. They have no constitutional authority to ask questions beyond their mandate. They have extended their mandate on their own authority, and some court cases have backed them up but there is a significant difference between the findings of a court case and practicable law.

This only addresses ONE of the many things you hear regarding the census. I have not yet chosen to address the other potential issues, such as how the census data is being used to apportion schools and other government services in your area. Remember, the census is a _Federal_ project, not a local one.


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## MoonShine (Mar 17, 2003)

I don't know if anyone's answered this or not, but why do they keep coming around? If the form was completed and mailed, why do they show up at the house asking questions? My Grandma's form was completed and mailed in. A week or so ago, a lady census taker came to Grandma's house and asked for her phone number. Why? There have been several others around. I can't understand it.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Joseph, in another thread here somewhere I did post about a bad experience I had the last census around, from a physically dirty, literally foul-smelling. pimple-covered,repugnant little squid of a man who drove onto my property and, when I told him how many people lived here and I politely told him I would offer no information beyond that, he threatened me saying that if I didn't tell him everything "a lot of people from the government will be very intereted to know what's going on in this house". I was working doing some wiring on my shed and had a pair of kleins in my hand. I told him I would take no threats and he had better leave. He kept on, and I told him if he didn't leave I'd cut the air stems on his tires and he'd have to have his vehicle towed. He left.

So to answer your question, yes, I have indeed had a VERY bad experience by someone who thought they were Mr. Government Agent Man and who thought he had authority to threaten me on my own property, with a retaliation that, as far as anyone has ever discovered, does not even exist, and certainly not a host of governmental agents as this little toad implied. He overstepped any authority he had, and crossed a line when he threatened me.

Caution has nothing at all to do with living in fear. Caution is how you head off fear in the first place. 

Hope that explains my view for you. I can add nothing else.

ETA Thanks Ernie, this is what I have been trying to convince people of--- the redrawing of congressional districts!!-----

Quote 4. Notice in the current census form there is nowhere to delineate between citizens and non-citizens. They are counting solely the number of individuals living at an address. Yet remember they are telling us this information will be used to determine the number of representatives in government our district will be given. This change occurred when the control of the census passed from the Department of Commerce to the White House and I believe it is an unprecedented move to give illegal immigrants more voting power, or at the very least empower the districts and safe havens where they live.


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

Plenty of other jobs? Not around here. At least ones that pay $12.25 an hour and 50 cents a mile!!! The going rate for your typical hamburger-flipper type jobs is MAYBE $7.90 an hour and you'll have to sell your soul and tell the boss everyday how much you appreciate the opportunity to help HIM make more money.


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## Jakk (Aug 14, 2008)

Ernie said:


> 1. The 2010 Census is being largely conducted by part-time information collectors who are not adequately trained in the collection, storage, and proper usage of this information. This leads to increased risk of information theft and misuse, as we have seen already in a handful of cases, from rape to the county junk complaint.


My friend works in the welfare office and she said a lot of the welfare recipients take the census job because the pay doesnt count against their benefits. If it did, they would lose their welfare. That is the only reason some of them will do the job. Apparently word speads quickly because she has a LOT of census workers on her case load.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Jakk said:


> My friend works in the welfare office and she said a lot of the welfare recipients take the census job because the pay doesnt count against their benefits. If it did, they would lose their welfare. That is the only reason some of them will do the job. Apparently word speads quickly because she has a LOT of census workers on her case load.


I didn't know any job would not count against welfare benefits.
I really think this is rotten, unless other regular working folks that are trying to work out, and cannot get ahead due to everytime they make more money to get ahead the rent goes up, the food stamps go down, the subsidized rent goes up, etc.

But, I'm not for professional welfare folks, at all. Good to see some working, but the same rules that apply to some need to appy to all.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Jakk said:


> My friend works in the welfare office and she said a lot of the welfare recipients take the census job because the pay doesnt count against their benefits. If it did, they would lose their welfare. That is the only reason some of them will do the job. Apparently word speads quickly because she has a LOT of census workers on her case load.


I didn't know any job would not count against welfare benefits.
I really think this is rotten, unless other regular working folks that are trying to work out, and cannot get ahead due to every time they make more money to get ahead the rent goes up, the food stamps go down, the subsidized rent goes up, etc.

But, I'm not for professional welfare folks, at all. Good to see some working, but the same rules that apply to some need to apply to all.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

That might be because of the temporary nature of it. And remember, initially the White House was trying to get Acorn heavily involved in the census until public outcry ruined that. We've already seen how expert Acorn members were at manipulating welfare.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Ernie - that may be the reason it's being allowed. But I still say the benefits should reflect every cent of the income and be adjusted just as it is for someone that works mandatory overtime which makes them $1 over the monthly income and they loose the benefits to make it harder to get a solid base to get off of everything. (again, this is only applying to the temporiarly down folks working to get out of the hole) 

But, at least those doing the job are showing they CAN work, for after this job showing if a job comes up they can do it instead of welfare.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I completely agree. Many of these professional welfare recipients know every trick in the book on how to get maximum benefits for the least amount of work. It is their _profession_ after all.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Ernie said:


> I completely agree. Many of these professional welfare recipients know every trick in the book on how to get maximum benefits for the least amount of work. It is their _profession_ after all.


As time honored and honest as a politician playing their game too.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

I had my first experience with a census worker this week myself and the interaction was cordial.

We live on a long, narrow, private, single lane, tree-lined, dead-end with no turn-around road, and with only two properties down stream from me there is very little traffic on the 'road'. Most people don't come down the road because they think it is a driveway.

I noticed an unfamiliar vehicle sitting in the road in front of my place and went out to investigate. The lady saw me coming and rolled down the passenger side window. She was a census worker and asked me if the house down the road was house number XXXX because it had no numbers on it. I didn't know the house number and if I did I would not have volunteered that information as it is not my business to do so.

She thanked me and asked if was ok if she remained parked there for a short bit while she did the paperwork. I told her that was fine and she drove off a couple of minutes later yelling thank you out the window and waving.

It was interesting that she asked no further information about the neighbors houses or who lived there etc, which I of course would not have volunteered anyway. 

The one thing that did disturb me was she seemed very disorganized. I kid you not, the passenger side seat was piled up almost to the bottom of the door window with census forms and various paperwork. Similarly she had a small stack on her center console and there was some paperwork spread across the dash. She did have some good looking junk food stuffed in her glove box though, so much that the door could not be closed. The cheetos looked especially good, it's been a long time since I've had cheetos. 

As an aside, this is not the first time I've been asked where house number xxxx is located by people trying to find an address. Maybe I'm an oddball but I don't know my neighbors house numbers, in part because there is some distance between the properties in this area but also because I've just never paid attention. I know where the family with goats live, and the family with chickens and turkeys in their yard, and I know where the guy with the camo painted river boat lives, and the family with the broken down motorhome in the field lives, but I have no idea what the house numbers are.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

"The cheetos looked especially good, it's been a long time since I've had cheetos." 

I laughed out loud!! 

I don't know my neighbor's house number/addresses either. I know the names of the ones directly across the road, and to the properties adjoining north and south, but not their physical address numbers.


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## Sparrow (Sep 23, 2003)

The nursing homes in this area are privately owned, I don't want to pay for another school and I certainly don't need any more representation, the representation I'm getting now is killing me, my only response will be "3".


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## Sparrow (Sep 23, 2003)

This thread must have been an omen, they just left my house. Told the guy that 3 people lived here and that's the only answer I'm going to give, he was fine with that and left.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Frankly, I don't trust any person hired in mass quantities to come to my house and ask questions about our family. Even though the government itself may or may not be trustworthy (which I believe it is not), any individual could pass my information off to anyone, no matter what they signed to get the job. Sure, many or most individuals are just fine, but how do I know which one comes to MY door? 

On the level of the government, I've done too much research into the just plain evil bs that goes on in "research" and politics, in spying and wars and how rich men protect their riches and power at the expense of the average citizen. There again, some politicians are doing their best to help people, more so at the local levels, but many are just off getting their own piece of the pie at our expense and with no concern for their constituents. Whatever fears, lusts, philanthropy motivates them, they are not led by Jesus Christ, they are not my government, they are not Godly. It would be impossible for a man with a real conscience towards the living God to run for office today in a fully corrupt government. 

You may say "tin foil hat" or whatever you want, the mess we have running this country today hates God and He's not too fond of them either. False religion, one world government, tyranny, stealing from the people their rights and income and calling it government is a farce. Today's American government has nothing to do whatsoever except for the name with the men that founded this country, many of them led by the living God to do so for the sake of establishing a land of freedom as a witness to the good and loving nature of God. 

We sent in our form, as required by law, but I have no trust that any of that information will be used for the good of any of the people in this land, except some of those at the top of the chain that collected it. I pay my taxes and am grieved because I know I am supporting evil and am become complicit in it all because of that. I thank my God that He will forgive even that for those He calls and I ask Him for a path out of being a part of it.


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## PrincessFerf (Apr 25, 2008)

I have a question that I have not seen posted in these threads relating to the census. We have lived in our home for 5 years. We never received a census form in the mail. Not an original form, no reminders, no letters, nada.

So far, no one has come to our house claiming to be from the government taking census information. If they were to come, do they show up at random times or only during the day?

People are at our home at random times throughout the week based on work schedules. I would hate for a census worker to show up when we're not home, only to be greeted by our 150lb St. Bernard who doesn't like strangers. The water delivery guys already refer to her as "Cujo". 

Maybe they don't know about us?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Sparrow said:


> This thread must have been an omen, they just left my house. Told the guy that 3 people lived here and that's the only answer I'm going to give, he was fine with that and left.


Heh. That's exactly the way it SHOULD go down!

So if I can ask ... what would you have told them before you read this thread? Same thing? Or did we in any way influence you?


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## Sparrow (Sep 23, 2003)

Sorry, I'd like to give you credit but...I've known this for years and refused to even fill out or send in the last census form in spite of the fact they showed up at my house at that time about 10 times. The last census I was one of the lucky ones to get the long form.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Good on you.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

Wisconsin Ann said:


> (I still think you should have sent in the info before hand in the mail..but I'm getting nervous about THAT, too)


It's not necessarily that simple. We filled ours out the day we received it and returned it in the mail the very next day. A census taker still came to our door to take our information. You know what they same about assuming...


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## woodsy (Oct 13, 2008)

Callieslamb said:


> wow, I feel left out. I filled out a card and mailed it in. No one came to my door.


We filled out the form, delivered it to the P.O. and have had two different census workers come by saying they didn't receive it/ can't find it, LOL.
Typical dysfunctional govt. operation if you ask me,
All they are getting now is the # of people that lived here April 1st.


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## Rose_Thorn (Mar 29, 2008)

I had one come to my door about 2 weeks ago. I didn't even open the door. Not in my neighborhood. I personally believe that there are some things that the government doesnt need to know. Its bad enough that we have to register everything from guns to livestock with the government.


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## Sparrow (Sep 23, 2003)

Why avoid them, they will come back and back and back, just tell them how many people live there and leave it at that. You don't have to register everything you just are brainwashed into believing that you do. Anybody who registers their weapons doesn't know the meaning of the word freedom. 

I had advance warning the census taker was headed my way, I had several choices, get out of dodge before he arrived, don't answer the door, answer the door, meet him outside, thought about strapping on a gun and just waiting around the yard until he came, he wouldn't have any idea I had advance warning but I didn't want to freak him out, I met him outside sans the gun.


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## sunshinytraci (Oct 20, 2007)

I filled out the form, and the census worker still came here. However, he said he came by several times but my gates were closed so he didn't enter. The day I left my gates open he came up. All he asked was how many people lived at my place. My husband told him. The guy said thank you and off he went.

Even though it was peaceful, I still resent having someone come up here and ask me such things because I feel that its none of anyone's *^&%^ business who lives here. I am a private person and the whole thing was violating.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Someone told me that if they come, they will come however many times it is they return. My reply to that was that my gate will be closed however many times it was. We answered the first question only. 

For those who fill out the form completley and have census workers say it was never received... this sends up red flags for me. In the scheme of things, how many times does mail really go astray? I mail most of my utility bills, our quarterly IRS pmt., various bills, and I also use the USPS for overnighting our invoices so we can get paid. I can truthfully say that, in my entire lifetime of mailing things, perhaps 6 or 8 things have legitimitallyl gotten lost in the mail. Out of my entire lifetime. So how is it that the census is losing what must be hundreds of thousands, if not millions of forms via the mail? I'm not buying it. Something is rotten in Denmark. I don't know if it could be incompetent employees, or tinkering bureaucrats manipulating numbers in order to skew the census. But something certainly isn't right.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

PrincessFerf, was your home new when you bought it? If so it just might have missed being added to the census database. As for when they come out, ours was out during the day on Saturday, had to be done before 8 pm. He left a note on the door of the guest house giving his name and phone number and that he was from the census bureau.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

They are sure pushy. We have already turned in our census and they came once 2 weeks ago and asked my neighbor about us. He said he didn't know. Well they came back today asking him about us. This time with a supervisor. My neighbor again said he didn't know and then came and chatted with me. Why are they coming around when we have already answered our census? It dosen't sit will with me.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Had one show up here as well. Sent in the form the day after we got it and he "had no record of it." 

*Well if they managed to lose all those forms that people sent in, just how competent are they at keeping the info private for the required amount of time, collating it properly, or any of the other tasks they are supposed to do? *

I was told to expect to be pestered up to seven times. I felt like saying "OK, I'll stand here, you stand there, and you can pester me seven times all at once and save you the gas and expense."

Then he wanted my phone number so someone could call. Good luck on that. I don't recall any governmental requirement to have a phone so I can be pestered at the caller's convenience. I've noticed that phone number requirement cropping up on a LOT of government forms recently. Maybe I'll start giving old numbers - it doesn't say CURRENT phone number...

To sum up my response: I sent the information. You lost it or are lying and attempting to get more info than is required by statute. I'm not repeating myself or playing your game. Deal with it. And have a nice day.


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## Sandhills (Jun 15, 2004)

I answered every last question they asked me even though I didn't like it but, I thought it was required by law. Next time I will refuse some of the questions. Especially my phone number. They won't stop calling. This has been going on for weeks now. I talked to a second census worker that stopped by our house and thought that would be the end of it. But no, the calls have started again. I refuse to answer the phone. 
So I was wondering if we can sue for harassment.


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## rdhdstpchild (Jul 13, 2009)

We seem to have had better luck. Our visit was short n sweet. I told her how many people were living here & explained we wouldn't answer any other questions. She stated she would put down "refused". I told her that was fine. Then she asked for a number we could be called at, I informed her that could be found in the book if they really wanted it.

I escorted her back to the gate "to keep the chickens off ya". (The laced polish aren't too bright but they are super friendly!) She exclaimed she was admiring our babies and offered to purchase some. 

No pressure, no threats, no silliness. :dance:


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

We have "No Trespassing, Violators will be prosecuted" signs up on both legs of our u-shaped drive. The Census Worker pulls down our driveway, our dog Sam barked up a storm (always when someone walks or drives onto our property), and he rolls down his window to tell me who he was and what he was doing here. Len was in his shop, but heard Sam, so he came out to see who was here. The CW got out of his car, approached me, eying Len, and also Sam. He looked nervous, but not nearly so much as when I asked what he had with him for protection (here, I should interject this was out of concern for the risks he was taking, not to intimidate him in any way). I wasn't in the least concerned about him. Had he been one of the animals we read about and hope not to encounter (I have and won't forget)? One word from me, Sam would have taken him down, Len would have been out, and well... probably would have been over with pretty fast. As it was, I answered the questions and recommended he have something better than pepper spray. I told him that someone with wasp spray could get him faster and be 10 feet or more from him, not to mention what all kinds of other weapons could do. I live in a community of people who are old fashioned. There isn't much crime here, for that reason.

Turns out this worker hadn't had a job in eight months and took this out of desperation for work.

I was a bit surprised the CW drove down our driveway, actually. When you encounter "No Trespassing" signs, you shouldn't be expecting a warm welcome.


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## farmwoman59 (Aug 7, 2008)

Our gate is left open one night a week when the folks come over for Bible Study. Hubby leaves it open when he comes in from work around 4ish and it stays open til they all leave around 8ish. So four hours a week....well, five minutes after he got home this past Wednesday a red Jeep pulls into the driveway (we're 2/10 of a mile off the road) and out the fella gets despite barking snapping dogs. Wants to know where a certain address is which happens to be my late mom's home behind our house - I told him it was unoccupied just like it was when I sent the form back. Also wanted to know about another address - my best guess was it was a small lot where a camper has burned down about a year ago. He wanted my name as a "contact person". I said what for? I gave you a "guess" as to where it might be located. He then asked for a phone number....I repeated my answer was a guess at best and no, I would not provide a number. He said OK, got back in his Jeep with the dogs still snapping at his heels and left. Needless to say the gate will now be opened right before Bible Study and closed immediately afterwards.

We cannot stand strangers coming onto our property.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

lorichristie said:


> He looked nervous, but not nearly so much as when I asked what he had with him for protection ...


Wow. That could have been misconstrued in _so many ways._


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## jokey (Aug 17, 2005)

Had a census worker come here yesterday, we had already filled out the how many people live here question and sent it back in. Of Course she said they didn't receive it .
She tried to argue with my DH and say he couldn't refuse to give her information. He politely told her he DID not have to give any information except how many people live here. She tried to say she had been at the neighbors the day before and didn't know the road continued. What?she had a vision in her sleep?
Anyway, she said for a 10 dollar an hour job she wasn't ready to be mistreated. I looked at her and said lady you make more than I do. She said it with an attitude like 10 dollars an hour was beneath her. 
She also said she would be working on Monday, Memorial Day. I said oh gee I bet people will be just thrilled to have you visit them on a holiday.
She left and thanked DH for being polite and for the little information he gave her which was that 2 people lived here and we are white.
Wonder how many times they'll be back? And with all the missing forms that were sent in what's up with the post office? Seems the census bureau is Slandering them.


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## rhome (Aug 10, 2006)

I spoke to my CW friend just to see how the week went for him.
He works a small town and some rural, I asked about the no trespassing signs. His supervisor said that CWs are on official biz...something like a meter reader.
Gated and locked property is another matter, he just leaves a notice on the gate.

Overall he had a good week with only a few refusals...no problem...thanks them and is on his way.
Turns out many homes in his area never got the census form.

My CW friend is a hard working (construction) family man with 2 kids, his wife works part time to help "keep the wheels on the wagon".
He's very considerate and respects people's privacy. 

Most counties in this area have an Auditors website for property owner's name
if you have an address. Then use the web whitepages for their phone number.

Heres the deal with refusals...*possibly * more visits or phone calls or some other CW asking your neighbors about you.
BTW my CW friend will quit before he's asked to do any of that crap.
Good luck


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## PrincessFerf (Apr 25, 2008)

I wonder how many people never got forms like us.


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## CarolynRenee (Jan 30, 2008)

Months ago, we had a guy come from the Census to "verify" our address. Then we got a letter in the mail saying that the census form would be coming shortly. Then we got the form. Then we filled out the "how many people" area & sent it in before the deadline. Just a few weeks ago got a visit from another Census lady to verify our address AGAIN. Then got ANOTHER visit from a different lady asking why we didn't send in our form. Told her we did, but she said she still had to ask the questions. We sat on the front porch, offered her a glass of iced tea, answered the "how many people" question & told her that was all we were going to answer. She said thanks & went on her way.

Soooooo.......

Why does it take TWO mailings & THREE individuals to do this? 

I also spoke with my Mom's neighbor (who is a census worker) who said that he's still working & going to be visiting people AGAIN to check up on the person who did a home visit before he did. How much TAXPAYER money is being WASTED on this? I won't even go on about the WASTED money on Superbowl & other ads.

When I found out how much the Census workers were getting, I almost fell over. My DH works his behind off for less than what they get. I'm sorry if I'm offending any census workers, but these jobs are just a "working" welfare check for you.....and a highly inflated one at that. Where do you think that money is coming from to pay the workers & all the other "stuff" that goes along with it?????

I find it very "interesting" that there are so many that state they sent their forms in, yet still had visits because according to the govt., they did NOT send them in. Kind'a makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Sorry. Done venting now.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Actually, having read input here from people who have received multiple visits and unending phone calls even after mailing in forms (even completly filled out forms) and speaking to my family members and friends....

I really am beginning to believe something VERY fishy is going on. 

My immediate conclusion is that the census (under the president this time) is manipulating numbers (as they have with all the bailouts and economic reports that go through them directly) in order to further their agenda.

I have read news stories about census workers being hired, working an hour two, or maybe a day, being laid off and then rehired and being told it counts as two census workers hired as opposed to just one. If the government is willing to lie about the numbers of census workers/jobs, I have not one iota of doubt they are fully willing to manipulate the entire census in order to further entrench the far left, liberal agenda that is destroying the foundations of this country.


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## sulix (Jan 28, 2003)

i went to a census training school here in So.Dakota two weeks ago. i am paid for mileage, perdiem, motel expenses and my time for traveling.and the time for schooling .. Never heard from them again. Never got an assignment......almost $700. 
My personal feelings it is a MAKE work program, Maybe it is one way for the government to have the Unemployment ratio better.......


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Well _THAT_ was interesting. Just had another census worker knock on the door. He was a quality control worker, checking up on another worker. He asked if I knew where such and so lived so he could check to see if the worker had been there. 

I said "I've never heard of them, but oh, by the way..." and asked him about "missing" forms that had been sent in. He said this was the first he had heard of it. 

We continued chatting a bit and he said that he only worked in X county. I then said, "Uhhh, this is Y county." After some more conversation, I realized that he was looking for someone not one, not two, but THREE roads over. I gave him directions and he meandered off.

After about 10 minutes I decided "I think I need to check this out." I drove over to the street in question and sure enough, he was there going from house to house.

There is a saying about government that goes something like "Never be quick to attribute malice to an action that can be explained by incompetence and stupidity." You would think in this day and age that people could do better at finding streets than look in the wrong county. I guess not.


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## woodsy (Oct 13, 2008)

I have to wonder if the lost or missing forms thing is a lie to have census workers come around to verify information that was submitted, and/or employ the unemployed.
When the 2nd census worker showed up the 2nd question beyond how many people lived here was do you own , rent or have a mortgage, to that i replied thats none of the govts. business. When asked why they would ask such a question the census worker replied something to the effect that the more people that owned their homes the more leverage the govt. had to borrow money from foreign countries.
Just what we need huh the govt. borrowing more money from foreign countries.
Don't know how much truth there is to this.


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## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

I had my _*fifth*_personal visit today. Before the mailing I was visited by someone verifying my address, the next day, had someone verify the first visit. A week or so later, ANOTHER person came to verify my address. Received a letter saying that the census form would be mailed soon!?!? A couple of weeks ago a man came and talked to my husband, saying they did not receive the form that I completed and mailed. Today, another gentlemen pulled in the driveway just minutes after I returned from running errands. I sat down on the porch to answer questions, gave him the count, phone number - stopped at first names only. He asked two more times for our complete names before he stood up to leave. He then told me that he looked inside my front door and thought the bookcase facing the front door was a nice touch! He did not have the opportunity to look inside the door while I was there - must have come by while I was gone. It seems to have taken me a long time to get there, but finally, I'm leary.

I can only guess what this has cost us! This man lives in a county that is at least 35 miles away. I don't know about the others CW's that visited, but I'm about 50 miles from the nearest big city, 20+ miles from any city. I'm just one household; with 5 visits and 2 mailings, it must have cost at least $100 just to count 2 people!


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

He then told me that he looked inside my front door and thought the bookcase facing the front door was a nice touch! He did not have the opportunity to look inside the door while I was there - must have come by while I was gone

Ok, I would have taken that as some sort of hint at something unsavory. I would have taken his license plate # down, gone to the county courthouse and paid $5 or whatever it is these days and done a registration verification and gotten the guy's home address. Just in case.


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## farmwoman59 (Aug 7, 2008)

Marilyn said:


> He then told me that he looked inside my front door and thought the bookcase facing the front door was a nice touch! He did not have the opportunity to look inside the door while I was there - must have come by while I was gone.


OK, now that right there crosses the line - he had NO business looking inside your home. He would have been invited to leave very quickly after that comment.


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

Hmmm, invite him to leave? Or, is that the time to ask him to wait just a minute, "my phone is vibrating," walk into the yard the necessary distance, keeping the nosy creep in sight, and call the cops while he's standing on the porch. These people need some push back. 

This encounter is an excellent illustration as to why we all need to be prepared to defend ourselves wherever we are. Inside and outside our homes and wherever we go. I would not have given him the opportunity to be within my personal space, defined by distance necessary to close in a certain amount of time. You truly cannot be too careful.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I spoke with a cencus worker aquantaince he was telling me they are told to push for names and ages "to avoide counting anyone twice" i said but all i am required to say is the number of people living in the house no more he said yes thats all you are required to give.
but they are instructed to get more if possable some push others i suppse don't , so give your number and say good day and walk away.


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