# Master Spinner program ~ Fleece Section Analysis



## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

Finally! Just a recap of the fleece section study: 

The exercise is to sort a fleece into six sections, and display a lock or staple from each section. Then "Spin a 2-ply, 10-yd skein from each section of the fleece. Provide a detailed description of the appearance and handle of each section."
Here's the diagram of the parts of the fleece:


And the table of the description of each section:


Here are all my skeins lined up (inside picture - will try to get outside picture tomorrow with better light).

Woolen on the left of each pair(prepared using hand cards, then spun long draw); worsted on the right of the pair (prepared using combs, then spun with fingers before the twist):

The last skein on the right got cut off unfortunately

According to the table, the shoulder is the best quality, but I have to disagree. What do they mean by 'best quality'? 

'Finest' I would think would be the softest, since soft fleece is usually finer. But I couldn't tell the difference between any of the other sections, except for #4 Britch/Haunch. The wool seemed almost 'wiry' and looked 'hairy' in both the worsted and the woolen samples


I could tell the difference in luster between the woolen spun compared to the worsted - the worsted was 'smoother' so reflected more light (which makes sense)

Combing also took out the short gray locks that were present in the belly wool You could tell the difference in the locks here. The belly wool was almost 'downy' in nature (like the down breeds) - kind of 'bouncy' and smooshy:


I've got to go look up what it means by 'handle' so I can see how that applies to each skein. I also have not washed the final skeins yet, so I will do that tomorrow and get pictures in better light. 

I feel that I learned a LOT about skirting a fleece, and how to identify each section. BUT, to me, I am not seeing a big difference in the quality of each section (except for #4 britch/haunch - that one was obvious!) 

They do LOOK different, but that could be because of the amount of the gray locks, and I think that's just how Celia grows her wool. I really love the color of the neck wool - just love that gray tweedy look


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

PKBoo,

Beautiful spinning! Good job. 

I agree with you that Celia's wool is really uniform (except for the britch). 
That has not been the case with other fleeces I have worked.

Oftentimes the shoulder and sides have much finer and sort of thicker 'fluffier' wool. 
Like the whole structure of the locks is plumper and a bit shorter (but very uniform and soft)
compared to the strip along the back (and the britch, obvs).
There usually arent many of those "tippy ends" (  ) in those areas?


I will get my pics up sometime later.
My folders on this netbook are in a wild disarray right now. :teehee:


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

YAHOOO GAM! I was so waiting for your response and hoping that I wasn't completely off base! 

Tomorrow in the sunlight I'll get better pictures of each sample, so we can go through them in more detail. 

I know what you mean about the 'fluffier' yarn, and my #2 Side does look 'fluffier' than the others. 

I'm glad to know that other fleeces DO differ in areas - I should have picked another fleece I guess, but you don't know until you do it...

Thanks GAM! (We still need to answer the 'handle' question too...)


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Here are my little samples.

I spun the neck wool on my trindle and it is very soft and springy, but also underspun.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I really enjoy spinning these longwool breeds worsted because it accentuates the luster of the fiber.
That and the springiness. It gives the yarn good memory and makes for nice stretchy fabric.

To me the neck wool was by far the softest, even to the point of being tender and requiring a bit more care in prep.
I can imagine it would snap into little rolly bits if one carded it roughly.

That word "handle"? To me that means how it feels when you handle it. :teehee:
Sort of like when someone asks how a sportscar handles the turns.
I dont really know the official meaning of that word, fiberwise. :shrug:

On my samples I purposely picked out the greyer locks and didnt include them in my samples (except for the neck).
I was trying not to distract myself with the color of the wool.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

This is so interesting to watch and read. Thank you for sharing your experiences with the rest of us.


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

gone-a-milkin said:


> To me the neck wool was by far the softest, even to the point of being tender and requiring a bit more care in prep.
> I can imagine it would snap into little rolly bits if one carded it roughly.
> 
> On my samples I purposely picked out the greyer locks and didnt include them in my samples (except for the neck).
> I was trying not to distract myself with the color of the wool.


The gray wool must have made a difference in the softness then! I left it all in, and I really can't tell the difference between the neck, back, and sides. 


The neck is #6 on the far right, and you can see how much grayer it is than the rest. 


Here's a closeup of all the samples again - can you see the difference between the woolen and worsted? 

Section #1 from the SHOULDER:


Section #2 from the SIDE


Section #3 from the BACK


Section #4 from the BRITCH


Section #5 from the BELLY


Section #6 from the NECK


Going to post this, then compare the 'handle' of each in another post


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

Here's information I found from the Cooperative Research Centre for Sheep Industry Innovation about 'handle'

This refers to fabric, but I think it's applicable here too:

"In fabrics, three key components account for most aspects of handle:

Yarn characteristics: These include the diameter of the fibres and the yarn twist (how tightly the fibres in the yarn are twisted together). A looser twist tends to make a fabric feel softer but it can also negatively impact other fabric performance traits.

Fabric characteristics: The knit structure, e.g. jersey or rib, will affect the softness and smoothness of a fabric, as will the tightness of the knit (looser knits feel softer).

Fabric finishing: Many processes can be changed in finishing, altering the handle and appearance of a knitted fabric. In general, more finishing results in a âhairierâ finish, which gives a softer handle."

When I first started spinning, I remember hearing to try NOT to overspin because the yarn will feel like wire. So I think I always underspin, but when I take the yarn off the niddy noddy, it is balanced, so that's good.

I can't tell much of a difference between the handle of the different sections (except for #4 britch, which is 'wiry' and definitely not as soft)

I think there's a difference between the woolen and worsted samples though! The woolen skeins are softer and 'bouncier' than the worsted samples. 

I only need a 10-yd skein for each sample, and I have about 18 yards, so I'm going to wrap smaller skeins (the best of the it!), and knit a sample from each section. Maybe I'll be able to tell more of a difference then! Right now there's just a jumble of skeins in front of me


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Thanks for the 'handle' descriptive.

Maybe my neck wool yarn came out so noticably softer because I underspun it.
I bet that is at least partially it, though I notice it is definitely finer, even in the locks.
The crimp is tighter and the structure of the locks is different.


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

I love all those locks lined up! You really can see the difference in the crimp. And look at the britch compared to the rest of them! I'd forgotten how they looked!

How in the world did you separate out the gray locks on the neck? 

Wow - patience is not a virtue of mine! :teehee:


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I think it helps that I only had one pound of wool to work with, not a whole jumbled fleece.
I just worked through each baggie one at a time.
Admittedly, I LOVE to touch all the greasy wool and look it over, pick out the big chunks of vm. 
Generally I just enjoy handling it.
Maybe a little too much. :teehee:

Notice towards the tips on the neck wool. You can see the fineness and felting there.
(the cut end is UP and the tips are DOWN on all these samples, 
for anyone who might not be familiar).


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

I dont know which section is which part of the sheep , so I will have to refer them as numbers ! In the pics is left to right 1-5 ...... I will just refer back to my notes I took while doing this ... 



















I used a flicker on all of this , and spun it drafting around 6-12" , then letting the twist enter between my fingers before the take up .... 

#1 : Crimp/locks remained for the most part after washing ....
Fluffed nicely, soft , easy to work with ... I did OVER flick this batch 
causing nubs ... little lanolin 

#2 : Fuzzier, less crimp area , may be softer than #1 , very little VM, fluffs 
beautifully , softest yet !

#3 : seems coarser ?may be more lanolin in this batch ? 

#4 : More individual locks , flatter locks, not much crimp , LONG locks ! , grey 
color in it , not as soft ... controlling the thickness while spinning this
was the easiest yet ? no nubs ..

#6 : Dirty ! guessing hiney end , more VM than the others , greasy, clumpy 
not as much a joy to spin 

I have no idea if this correct !!


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Miz Mary, how come you dont know which section is which?
Did you lose track of your labels?

Good job on your spinning.
It is really cool to see how 3 different spinners handled the same wool.

Something I would love to see the HT spinners do sometime is all spin the same dyed roving 
each in our own way and see how different they would come out.
Wouldn't that be fun?


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

Miz Mary said:


> #1 : Crimp/locks remained for the most part after washing ....
> Fluffed nicely, soft , easy to work with ... I did OVER flick this batch
> causing nubs ... little lanolin
> 
> ...


Hmmmm - it doesn't seem like your numbers are the same as my numbers...

Here's the numbers and corresponding sections:
1). Shoulder
2). Side
3). Back
4). Britch/Haunch
5). Belly
6). Neck

I think I might not have sent you any belly wool, cuz there wasn't much of that and I needed it for my project. 

Your #6 sounds like the britch area - hardly any crimp; very dirty; 

By the color of your skeins though, it almost seems like your #6 is the neck - in my sample that had the most gray. But it's also very soft, with lots of crimp, so now I'm not sure!

Did you keep the baggies that the samples came in? I cut up plastic milk jugs, and use a sharpie to label them. Use a hole puncher and I can tie them to the skeins. They can go into hot water and I can keep everything organized and labeled. 

If I don't label, I am lost :smack

I can't remember what I did the day before... :stars:


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

GAM I love that idea . A SAL (spin a long)


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

I didnt have any lables in my box !! Made it REALLY fun , not knowing ,I was able to give a non bias opinion ! hahaa !! I'm having fun now matching up my descriptions to the area of fiber !! I could just focus on spinning them up, and guessing where they came from ! 

I did each bag one at a time, from washing to spinning ....kept the box in the other room so there wasnt any mix up .... I thought it was odd I my bags went from # 4 to # 6 , #5 didnt show up to the party !  

Looks like my #4 Britches and my # 6 Neck did a switcherooni ..... If so, it would make the neck area the NICE fiber to spin ?!?

SO, when looking to buy a fleece, I would want to make sure there is alot of neck/side fiber , rather than hiney /belly ?!?


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Personally, when I buy a raw fleece I want it as it comes off the sheep. I want to do my own skirting. I'm not sure I trust other people's skirting abilities, especially if I don't know the person or source.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I use that britch wool to knit the soles of slippers.
The coarse, wiry fiber is very strong and durable.
It takes up the dyes very well and strongly.
I bet it would be great for making straps and ropes too.
Maybe just the thing to use for animal halters?


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

AGH! Miz Mary I'm so sorry I forgot to put the label in! You should have let me know... at least the bags were labelled, so now you can match them. That's a VERY unbiased way to do it haha! 

Marchie - I agree with you about skirting, now that I've done it. I got some different breed samples through our guild, and I think that a few of the samples were britch wool, based on what I know now. 

Like GAM said, britch wool is good, you just have to know what you want to use if for.


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## tracyjayne (Dec 12, 2012)

I am so sorry to not have gotten back here sooner. I loved this learning experience. I did not use the same fleece that you all did. But I must say "Freeda" was wonderful to spin and I am now a fan of Shetland. The Birch section was my least favorite, but in saying that I do tend to think it would be great for slipper bottoms as GAM said. My favorite is the neck area, and Freeda had some grey in her that spun up so nice. I am going to dye my small skines and think I will make a pair of slippers for my daughter and If I have enough left over a pair of fingerless gloves for me. 
Thank You Paula for sharing the fleece and I would love to know if you have any whole fleece you might part with later down the road. 
Have a great day all and Thanks for sharing this fun with me!


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