# What is a "BAT'SPIT" Crazy-excessive-nutjob "Prepper" in your opinion..??



## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

What is a "BAT'SPIT" Crazy-excessive-nutjob "Prepper" in your opinion..?? Or "WHAT" is the level of being a prepper that is acceptable.....??? In your opinion is anyone who preps for more then a short weather caused power outage a nutjob.....??? What about the dooofiss that preps for a two week SHTF are they bonkers.....???

Where do you draw the line for someone being a smart and prudent prepper vs. when they have crossed the line into wackooo prepper.....???

Or is anyone with more then 3 days food in the home........a crazy nut'job prepper.........???


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## Vjklander (Apr 24, 2018)

I'm good for at least a year. I call it being a responsible adult.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

I don't find anyone that preps to be crazy. However long they chose to prepare for is up to them,but no judgement here. I think the crazy ones are those who don't prep at all


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The “I am the savior guys” are crazy


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

I consider BAT’SPIT the Lone Ranger. Good luck. 

My preps should not necessarily exceed my extended family. But, we need to, and have, agree to a minimum. 

Worry old man.


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## Vjklander (Apr 24, 2018)

I told my wife she only has one job for SHTF: keeping track of the cheerleaders' bus.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I would say the bat spit crazy prepper was well represented by Christopher Walken in the movie "Blast From the Past". Love that film. Walken reminds me sooooo much of my Dad. Our great escape from civilization during the Cuban Missile crisis was one of the best adventures of my life. And neither was wrong in their prepping.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

I only go to town for supplies once a year so I "Have" needed to keep a few years of food on hand. That is currently evolving somewhat with Amazon.com and the free shipping.

People tend to think of prepping as food mostly. But it is really everything, you could ever need over an unknown extended period of time.

I think the 100% guaranteed, "totally safe", "buy the dip", "the government has your back", stock market has seduced many into a perceived alternative to prepping physical goods.

I do have a lot of #10 cans of Mountain House Freeze Dried Food that I keep in caches and remote fall'back shacks. They have a 35 year plus storage shelf life.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

You will know it when you see it...….


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

My father in law is Bat Sh*t Crazy but he doesn't prep.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

The person that preps for future events yet doesn't have the resources to survive the week.

WWW


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

My home preps did very little to help me when SHTF, but the car preps have been very helpful.

As to the OP's question-- Prepping is normal to me, and wise. But when folks start talking about fallout shelters, or giving a few other signs they spend more of their lives preparing for disaster than in just living life-- I start to wonder about them. Live in the moment, not in some negative future you have created for yourself. That's not to say don't prepare, but preparing can quickly become an obsession that supersedes the joy of life.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

ShannonR said:


> My home preps did very little to help me when SHTF, but the car preps have been very helpful......


That is good information, that preppers should consider on the remote chance they have to Bug'Out, quickly. This guy who also got burned out in the CARR Fire, has some interesting insights, namely have $500.00 cash and top quality home owners insurance. He lost most of his preps, but he will have $700,000.00 to buy more. https://survivalforum.survivalmagazine.org/forum/general/general-chat/214874-buggy-s-next-shtf


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Thank you for posting this. I now have work to do on this.


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

That was an interesting read, on the survival forum. It sounds like the fire victim on that thread wasn't too far from me.

The cash on hand advice is absolutely correct. I had a couple hundred stashed away in my car, stupid place for it I know, but it has helped tremendously. 

It was absolute pandemonium in Redding last Thursday evening, the night my dad's place burned up. The whole western side of town was a true gridlock as far as traffic goes, signal lights were not working and a few people were beginning to drive pretty erratically. The road closures everywhere only added to the panic. The 4x4 in my rig would have come in real handy had the fire come any closer to the gridlocked traffic. I got a motel room that night and the power was out in it. I did have flashlights on hand and some basic necessities though.

Keeping my cell phone charged in the car while the power was out in town worked well for me, as I could use it to get fire updates and stay in contact with my family as the events unfolded. My dad went MIA for the night his house burned and I was very relieved to finally hear he was safe.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

I don't think there's an exact set of criteria for crazy prepper, but there do seem to be some signs.. taken individually, or collectively, these tend to paint a picture of the rationalizations.

Signs:
Preppers who's homes are in shambles but they have 100 weapons and 100,000 rounds of ammo. 
Preppers who do nothing else but prep.. it is the primary focus of their existence. 
Preppers who think the government is going to come for them.

The prepper who preps for something he doesn't understand.. Like the guy who thinks some plague is going to wipe out humanity but doesn't even understand the basics of biology or medicine. Or the guy who preps for an EMP but knows nothing at all about how its created or its actual effects.

The prepper who spends more than they can afford buying stuff that may never be needed.

And finally, the most crazy of them all, and by far the most common:
Those who absolutely believe SHTF will happen or won't happen.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

The only crazy ones are those always telling everyone what they have.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Absolutely right. Keep what you have a secret. It is fine to share information with people you trust but you still need to be cautious. Back in 1999 when we were all worried that the computer controlled world was going to crash I advised my neighbour (a mom with 2 kids) to keep some cash on hand and stock up on food. I was quite shocked to overhear her telling the whole neighbourhood at our block party that she had cash hidden in her house because I had advised her to do so because I had cash hidden - and that they should do the same. Needless to say I moved the cash when I realized that she could not keep a secret. Lesson learned.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

One thing I have noticed is that people will ask you "can you keep a secret?" and even if you say "absolutely not" they insist on telling you. Being the keeper of secrets is hard work and a heavy burden - especially when it could be something of extreme importance when it comes to security and safety.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

emdeengee said:


> Absolutely right. Keep what you have a secret. It is fine to share information with people you trust but you still need to be cautious. Back in 1999 when we were all worried that the computer controlled world was going to crash I advised my neighbour (a mom with 2 kids) to keep some cash on hand and stock up on food. I was quite shocked to overhear her telling the whole neighbourhood at our block party that she had cash hidden in her house because I had advised her to do so because I had cash hidden - and that they should do the same. Needless to say I moved the cash when I realized that she could not keep a secret. Lesson learned.


I don't trust my neighbors either.. While I'm friends with all of them, its just neighborly.. there is one I do trust, and he trusts me and we know what each other has.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

We have always been very fortunate in our neighbours. Only one bad one. Like you our relationship is friendly neighbourly. Some have been exceptional and even moved into the good acquaintance category. We help each other when needed but are also all private people living independent lives. Certain things can be shared and we even depend on each other for animal and kid care but we don't trust everyone with everything. It is sad that for some people they do not even have family that they can completely trust.


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

I worry most about the crazy ones that are prepping to first and foremost to kill people. That includes invading your house with his friends to kill all of you and take what you have... and doing that house to house. With the millions of assault weapons that have been sold over the years and truck loads of ammo to go with them ...... it will be a rough go defending your place against a whole bunch of crazies shooting up your place. Most houses are just lumber and drywall .... a .223 ar-15 bullet will travel clear thru your house hitting people in other rooms. Drywall is no protection and pine 2 by 4's aren't much better.
Those are the nut job crazy people I'm worried about the most .... And there are alot of them in every state in this country.
Ohio Rusty ><>


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## Ellendra (Jul 31, 2013)

I'd consider among the "crazy ones" to be the ones who prepare for one specific scenario and ONLY one scenario, when the scenario has never happened before, and they'll scream and rant at anyone who doesn't subscribe to the exact same belief. If you are prepared for total nuclear holocaust but can't function on a normal day with a sprained wrist, you may need to examine your priorities.

Anyone who is looking _forward_ to the idea of hurting people. 

Anyone who thinks "Mad Max" is the only form of disaster there is. Or that "SHTF" is an all-or-nothing thing, when there are countless smaller disasters that can turn your life upside-down, but may not effect anyone in the next town over, or even the next house.

Anyone who tries to scare people away from prepping by making it seem too hard or too violent.

And, quite frankly, anyone whose plans involve waiting until after the disaster hits before they learn the skills needed to go with that stuff they bought. 

That last one may not be "bat spit crazy", but they're still crazy in some form or another.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

Ohio Rusty said:


> I worry most about the crazy ones that are prepping to first and foremost to kill people. That includes invading your house with his friends to kill all of you and take what you have... and doing that house to house. With the millions of assault weapons that have been sold over the years and truck loads of ammo to go with them ...... it will be a rough go defending your place against a whole bunch of crazies shooting up your place. Most houses are just lumber and drywall .... a .223 ar-15 bullet will travel clear thru your house hitting people in other rooms. Drywall is no protection and pine 2 by 4's aren't much better.
> Those are the nut job crazy people I'm worried about the most .... And there are alot of them in every state in this country.
> Ohio Rusty ><>


I think your perception is off.. I don't know of anyone that preps to go invade other's homes... not saying by any means that such a thing won't happen, I'm sure it probably will.. I'm just not aware of any preppers who think that way.. 

The reason is somewhat simple.. its basic statistical mathematics. You're only going to invade a certain number of homes before your luck runs out and someone kills you defending their home. In any SHTF scenario, people will be scared and that fear will cause them to be locked and loaded.. Granted, there will be those who don't own weapons, but eventually, the raider's luck will run out... and probably sooner than later.

I might get chastised for thinking this way, but if I lived on a street and saw bad guys running around victimizing others in a SHTF situation, I wouldn't wait my turn, I'd shoot them down in the street from my front window... In fact, after thinking about it for a second, I'm pretty sure others would do the same.

As for the ballistic protection your home affords, you are correct.. but so long as you are aware of it, you can take steps to mitigate the issue should something happen. Or just buy a brick home.

Sandbags will stop everything up to a 50 caliber and they only cost about 30 cents each.. 100 of them can provide almost unlimited protection and only occupy a space equal to about a desktop computer in storage.

if something big happens, you'll have about a week before things get bad.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Murby said:


> I'd shoot them down in the street from my front window.


That would make you one of them.


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

Murby said: _I don't know of anyone that preps to go invade other's homes..._ 

The fellow on the doomsday preppers channel a couple years ago said he was going to do exactly that. Several boards I'm on the 'extreme survivalists' say that is what they are going to do. A guy I know that works for a contractor told me he and his neighborhood groups will come to the rural country and just take what they want by force. There are probably millions with that same mindset that haven't spoken out and are waiting for their chance to grab and go. 

_*I wouldn't wait my turn*, I'd shoot them down in the street from my front window_
So you are also prepping to kill people ... 
This is the craziness that is going to erupt not long after the chips fall. Once they open the prisons and let out the most dangerous convicts because there is no one being paid to house them and keep them in prison... they will have a field day on the general public robbing, pillaging, raping and burning to get back at society for wronging them by locking them in prison.
Ohio Rusty ><>


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Ohio Rusty said:


> The fellow on the doomsday preppers channel a couple years ago said he was going to do exactly that.


I've seen at least one say they would even shoot LEO's if they saw them going door to door.
You can see some really irrational people on some of the "prepper" forums.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

Ohio Rusty said:


> Murby said: _I don't know of anyone that preps to go invade other's homes..._
> 
> The fellow on the doomsday preppers channel a couple years ago said he was going to do exactly that. Several boards I'm on the 'extreme survivalists' say that is what they are going to do. A guy I know that works for a contractor told me he and his neighborhood groups will come to the rural country and just take what they want by force. There are probably millions with that same mindset that haven't spoken out and are waiting for their chance to grab and go.


Don't be so gullible and let people pull your chain like that.. they're just trying to get you worked up. Every prepper forum has one or two of them.. Anyone dumb enough to head out to the rural area, where almost everyone has multiple weapons and knows how to shoot, is going to die fast if they're trying to take things by force.

Heck, I go out into my backyard on a cool summer evening and you can hear gun fire coming from all directions in the distance every weekend.. and some of these guys are firing on full auto.. and I just live a bit outside Detroit where corn and cows rule the landscape.

Come to the rural area's and take what he wants by force? He'd have better luck stopping by the White House first.

People say the dumbest things...

I can see it now: "um honey, me and the guys are going to take the guns, drive up 30 miles in my car that doesn't have gas, avoid being robbed, shot or breaking down, go raid a few well armed homes, and I'll be back later ok??"

Seriously????

Far more likely is the city people will come to the rural area and try to raid farms at night.. trying to avoid confrontation or getting shot.. trying to keep their wife and children fed.. They're not trying to take anything by force, they'll be trying to sneak it out under cover of darkness just so they can eat.. These types are not bad people, they're just trying to survive. Unfortunately for them, they may die too if they're caught stealing food from someone else's mouth.




> _*I wouldn't wait my turn*, I'd shoot them down in the street from my front window_
> So you are also prepping to kill people ...


I'm prepping to keep my family safe.. Safe from disease, safe from starvation, safe from bad people intent on harming us.. If you interpret that as "prepping to kill people" then yes, I'm prepping to kill people who want to harm my family... 
I'm also prepping to feed my own neighbors by buying way more supplies than I need.. and prepping to keep their batteries charged by having a large solar array, and prepping to keep them healthy.. I am prepping to build a sub-community with radio communications and a situation where we all work together to keep each other alive and safe.



> This is the craziness that is going to erupt not long after the chips fall. Once they open the prisons and let out the most dangerous convicts because there is no one being paid to house them and keep them in prison... they will have a field day on the general public robbing, pillaging, raping and burning to get back at society for wronging them by locking them in prison.
> Ohio Rusty ><>


Yes, there will be a "die off" period of about 6 to 10 months where people do stupid things and pay the price for it.. Lots of bad people will die off, some good people will die off.. communities will come together to work together.. but ya, you'll have to survive the chaotic die off period first.. and to do that, you need food and weapons.. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.

I do not know if they will let violent offenders out of prison.. I seriously doubt it.. most likely they will either be given a choice of a bullet in the head or to be allowed to rot in their cells.. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on the subject knows if there is a policy in place or not.. I doubt there is.. But if I was a prison warden, I sure wouldn't let the bad people out.. Let the drug offenders out, the white collar crimes, and the other non-violent's.. the rest can die.

SHTF will most likely happen.. it is a statistical probability.. the only question is when will it happen and are you prepared to deal with it if it happens in your lifetime? (which it probably won't)

You buy insurance for your home right? Why not some insurance for SHTF? At least you get to keep that items you spent money on.. with home insurance, if nothing happens, you're money is gone.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Murby said:


> Heck, I go out into my backyard on a cool summer evening and you can hear gun fire coming from all directions in the distance every weekend.. and some of these guys are firing on full auto.. and I just live a bit outside Detroit where corn and cows rule the landscape.


Hearing gunfire near Detroit?
Who'da thunk it?
Next you'll be telling us people in Chicago have guns too.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

No need to stock up on a bunch of stuff for a SHTF scenario. Just find the weird guy with the solar array. Try to make friends with him. Tell him how smart he is. Then when the time comes, back shoot him while he is spouting off some techno babble, preferably after he shows you what all the switches do. Then you are all stocked up. It's not about what you have, it's about what you can get.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

barnbilder said:


> No need to stock up on a bunch of stuff for a SHTF scenario. Just find the weird guy with the solar array. Try to make friends with him. Tell him how smart he is. Then when the time comes, back shoot him while he is spouting off some techno babble, preferably after he shows you what all the switches do. Then you are all stocked up. It's not about what you have, it's about what you can get.





Ohio Rusty said:


> A guy I know that works for a contractor told me he and his neighborhood groups will come to the rural country and just take what they want by force. There are probably millions with that same mindset that haven't spoken out and are waiting for their chance to grab and go.


See above? There's one or two in every forum.. The technical term is "trolling".. trying to get a rise out of you by saying offensive.. Its a looking glass into a type of mentality.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

Humans are capable of anything including cannibalism I remember kids huffing gas and going brain dead. during the depression many turned to prostitution and running booze today. Mexico is a war zone the best known and most successful gang hit man was 16 years old. in the last few wars children have been used as human suicide bombers. people have sold their children for food drugs and anything else you can think of. parents have murdered their children, killed their parents and grand parents so they could take their SSI checks. and I personally know worse. 

So check your opinions and personal limitations at the door. they are not valid 99% of Americans have no earthly idea of the brutality of humans toward one another. In all the great wars no less than millions died many were sought out because of ethnicity, race creed color or religion or they were property owners or just the bad luck of being a member of the wrong political group -- the loser. Most of the great leaders were murdered by their own or their leader was so paranoid they killed off all their close followers.

In a country as large as ours if you think there will not be little dictators controlling water and any other valuable asset such as fuel food and the travel within their scope of power you have the IQ of a week old doughnut. there are thousands of mentally screwed up people on drug therapy anyone thinks those people are going to evaporate ? what will happen when the states can no longer keep the convicts in prison or pay the guards ? imagine all the animals released under private ownership there are 2,000 tigers in Texas thousands of venomous snakes and then consider all the chemical plants and R&D medical sites trains filled with deadly chemicals being explored by high school drop outs -- needless to say this is just the tip of the iceberg there are things so horrible out there that are only contained by a small number of people in a desolate area and without constant resupply they will be forced to leave and those containments will not be under control over half the country would be irradiated or so toxic whole states would be a write off, air water and all you could grow or hunt would be dead dying or turned to dust. 

We live in a very intricate and technical society if we go Venezuela or the next world war hits it's over this is not your grand daddy's or fathers wars the conventional weapons have no equal some have no detectable signature before you know your going to be dead. Without electricity many with medical issues will be dead in days no way to move water 3 days later they will be dropping like flies the the flies and now disease and more will die then plagues and the surface water will be fouled by the dead, no antibiotics a small trouble will kill you. Children are the weakest child death rates will be astronomical. Again the tip of the iceberg.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Murby said:


> There's one or two in every forum.. The technical term is "trolling".. trying to get a rise out of you by saying offensive.. *Its a looking glass* into a type of mentality.


Yes, it is.



> look·ing glass
> [ˈlo͝okiNG ˌɡlas]
> NOUN
> 
> *a mirror*.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

The "prepping" is getting deep now...…



Take a look at nature and the most brutal animal struggles...…….we are way way way way way way way way more violent and worse than that...…..the thing is we can not control our nature , when starvation and fear take over.


I was lucky enough when I was young to go a while, much longer than most ever have without food, I tried eating grass, paper and even some leaves,...anything to overcome the hunger, then instincts that lay dormant while we are full and docile emerge and those instincts take over, the mind can logically justify any action to sustain life.


The only person that knows you is you and unless you have been thru that, there is no way to explain what the mind is capable of rationalizing as logical, I can tell you I am a pretty level headed good person, but until you know those thoughts for yourself there is no way to understand the power of that survival instinct is ingrained in the DNA of humans.


I wish that experience on no one, but unless you experience it for yourself, there is no way to truly understand what normal humans are capable of when starving. Talking with others who have shared that experience who might have went longer or less is very enlightening . It is a eye opener for sure.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The decision to backshoot the eccentric prepper is not a forgone conclusion, it is possible to merely form an alliance with him in a SHTF. It would all depend upon whether he assumed a condescending tone based on his perceptions of superiority.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

barnbilder said:


> The decision to backshoot the eccentric prepper is not a forgone conclusion, it is possible to merely form an alliance with him in a SHTF. It would all depend upon whether he assumed a condescending tone based on his perceptions of superiority.


Be sure to tell your mommy and daddy that you love them if it happens.. you're not going to last too long.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

barnbilder said:


> It would all depend upon whether he assumed a condescending tone based on his perceptions of superiority.


So he's most likely getting shot.
He'll make good compost


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

shawnlee said:


> The "prepping" is getting deep now...…
> 
> Take a look at nature and the most brutal animal struggles...…….we are way way way way way way way way more violent and worse than that...…..the thing is we can not control our nature , when starvation and fear take over.


That's not true.. actually we can control our tendencies and our nature... most just choose not to.



> I was lucky enough when I was young to go a while, much longer than most ever have without food, I tried eating grass, paper and even some leaves,...anything to overcome the hunger, then instincts that lay dormant while we are full and docile emerge and those instincts take over, the mind can logically justify any action to sustain life.


Where the hell did you live that you couldn't find wild edibles or animals to eat? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you were very hungry WHILE still trying to follow the law about hunting. 
I mean, where in the USA are there no animals to eat? Even in the city there are squirrels and birds all over. 



> The only person that knows you is you and unless you have been thru that, there is no way to explain what the mind is capable of rationalizing as logical, I can tell you I am a pretty level headed good person, but until you know those thoughts for yourself there is no way to understand the power of that survival instinct is ingrained in the DNA of humans.


 I wish that experience on no one, but unless you experience it for yourself, there is no way to truly understand what normal humans are capable of when starving. Talking with others who have shared that experience who might have went longer or less is very enlightening . It is a eye opener for sure.[/QUOTE]
I agree, hungry people get desperate and desperation causes them to do stupid things. In normal times, it usually means few, if any consequences, like a night in jail... in an SHTF situation, it will most likely mean a dirt nap.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

LOL this might be a biased place to ask the OPs question.
Id think prepping is out of hand if it disrupts the rest of your life.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Murby said:


> most just choose not to.


Correct. 
The things people do are usually done by choice. 
They can't (rationally) blame someone else for the consequences.



Murby said:


> desperation causes them to do stupid things.


Some must be *really* desperate most of the time.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

Most of what I have read is predicated on life as it is today and everything will remain the same and that is a dire mistake since in a world catastrophe all anyone would have to do is forage for wild edibles fish and hunt. Ask anyone in Fukashima Japan, Chernobyl Russia, Bopal India Mt St. Helen in Washington state. and a hundred other ghost towns and wiped out areas that all they have to do is catch local and find happy weeds to eat. Hawaii newest lava spurt and California fires aftermath all those critters are already nicely cooked must be nice.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Murby said:


> That's not true.. actually we can control our tendencies and our nature... most just choose not to.
> 
> *Time and history have shown this is not true, when pushed and no other options exist trapped, starving etc etc, it is pretty universal what people will do, just look at real life stories of people who are desperate. Most will either lock up from fear or do what it takes and at that point of deciding do what it takes puts all options on the table. The mind can justify and rationalize unspeakable things. Lets just say consuming yourself is not off the menu.*
> 
> ...



Most people in this country have never seen real hunger......skipping a bigmac at lunch leaves them starving, a day would be unthinkable for most and that's not even starting to get desperate or hungry yet at 24 hours. I guess it breaks down as above....those who do and those who freeze up, so there are victims and survivors. Survivors will do whatever it takes and when instincts take over, your logical mind is no longer in control. 

I guess it just depends, like animals, how strong your instinct for survival is.....some animals are fighters and some just roll over and die...…….maybe it is preprogramed instinct as to who will be a survivor or who will roll over and give up before the struggle even begins.

I just know that there is no logic that can be applied to desperate starving people.....they are capable of anything......yes, even self consumption, although that is at the very extreme end of the spectrum, they will eat everyone else first they can though.

As pointed out, just look at nature....momma will consume her young to survive as will people, we just like to hide those cold realities deep down away from the light in a corner locked away and forget about that and we as a civilization have been removed from that for quite some time as that desperate of times was long ago, but the capabilities to do that are in everyone.


Its grand and noble to proclaim we are in control or above such things, but until one is in or has been in desperate survival instinct mode, there is no predicting what one will or will not do, but the capability and the history of it is there. I will leave it at that, because the capabilities to survive is easy,they are built in, the living with it part is the hardest, so that's all for me on this subject....hopefully this information helps some one.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Id think prepping is out of hand if it disrupts the rest of your life.


For some it's just the latest fad.

They think because they started doing it a couple of years ago they are now "experts" from reading the internet prepper and survival sites.

You can throw all the money you want at it and still end up losing it all by thinking you're bullet proof.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

Yes it is hard to tell those that have not experienced it that no matter the firepower or defensive measures there is some aspect that cannot be defended against. Numerous chemicals can eat through any substance many can vaporize and kill on contact or when inhaled leach into the water table and cannot be detected without special testing.

There have been a few incidents one in Elk river spill in Virginia, the Animas river in Colorado, this is with all the ability to contain and clean law and EPA oversight. What happens when those controls are no longer in place.

30,000 mines are leaching toxins and poisons into the water table a major event could leave whole areas unlivable.
https://inhabitat.com/over-30000-mines-are-leaking-toxic-waste-into-american-waterways/

28 most toxic sights in America
https://www.thedailybeast.com/americas-28-most-polluted-places


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

Deleted.. computer issues


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

shawnlee said:


> Most people in this country have never seen real hunger......skipping a bigmac at lunch leaves them starving, a day would be unthinkable for most and that's not even starting to get desperate or hungry yet at 24 hours. I guess it breaks down as above....those who do and those who freeze up, so there are victims and survivors. Survivors will do whatever it takes and when instincts take over, your logical mind is no longer in control.
> 
> I guess it just depends, like animals, how strong your instinct for survival is.....some animals are fighters and some just roll over and die...…….maybe it is preprogramed instinct as to who will be a survivor or who will roll over and give up before the struggle even begins.
> 
> ...


I agree with you for the most part.. hence the need for defense.. 

I also think that its only going to last for about 6 months or so before the desperate and stupid are killed off.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

6 months ? the depression 1929 lasted until after WWII 1945 we had to borrow the money to fight the war. that and our manufacturing strength got us out of debt and things did not get better overnight the "good times" did not come along until about 1955. Some states never were in the groove and lived off of logging coal mining and did not have the diversity to maintain their state economies, and are still struggling today. 

Up until the late 1990s there were still companies that paid in script you shopped at company stores if they did not have it they ordered it. 1990s they were still using script !!! look up the song 15 tons from Tennessee Ernie Ford and it was legal the only reason it stopped here was because the company failed.

Berkshire- Hathaway company run by Warren Buffet out of Omaha Nebraska has their own money called the Berkshire it is used in many areas In that state probably other states. Companies do not have to accept paper cash they can demand and refuse anything other than digital cash.

There is a whole world that does not deal in U.S. dollars the only reason we are not in a depression is our currency is the defato petro currency in order to buy fuel any transactions have to be in U.S. dollars so other countries have to trade their money for ours to be able to buy fuel and that includes jet fuel on sight in over 180 nations.

Russia China India and Germany If I recall had meetings to change the Petro dollar to another currency but they know that if like decoupling a train once the link is separated they world economy would falter as just how could you get everyone onboard and seamlessly move from one currency to another -- it would have to be done digitally and only one currency in the world -- that's right the one world government where governments have no power only the bureaucrats and the UN to mandate all laws and they have that agenda in place -- waiting for the collapse of paper currency and it's coming it happened in 2008 and by all rights that should have cratered the system --but its coming.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Murby said:


> I also think that its only going to last for about 6 months or so before the desperate and stupid are killed off.


High value targets won't last that long.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Depends on how bad TSHTF.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

I lived a long the Mississippi river during the 1993 floods...….where many places/towns were under water. We lost water service for a couple months...….with just that small disruption thing got pretty tense.

All bridges and roads were in place still, electric was on etc, just a interruption in the water over loaded manufacturing and delivery where they could not bring in liquids of any type fast enough. Anheiser Busch shut down beer production in St loius and canned water on those lines and used their trucks and distribution systems to get water out to people for free by the semi load.

If it was not for that, things would have gotten out of hand, grocery stores could not get semi loads of bottled water and any other liquid drinks fast enough.....tension levels in town were rising pretty quick, lucky it was a smaller city in the Midwest where people tend to be a little more tolerant and polite.....but it was still pushing critical levels as far as turning bad quickly was concerned....people got on edge and pretty uptight.

It was eye opening to watch semi load after semi load of even regular groceries vanish as quick as it could be stocked and entire semi loads of bottled water/gator aid/ fruit juices etc went in carts as fast as they could stock it,...it went out the front door in carts fast as it came in the back door and was stocked...…..even a couple weeks of this they still could not catch up until the beer plant started canning water instead of beer.

If a major disruption happens in the larger cities it will get ugly in short order.....supplies disappear at unbelievable rates, I am glad I got see it first hand in a minor emergency...we still had national guard around to make sure all was well with law and order.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

shawnlee said:


> I lived a long the Mississippi river during the 1993 floods...….where many places/towns were under water. We lost water service for a couple months...….with just that small disruption thing got pretty tense.
> 
> All bridges and roads were in place still, electric was on etc, just a interruption in the water over loaded manufacturing and delivery where they could not bring in liquids of any type fast enough. Anheiser Busch shut down beer production in St loius and canned water on those lines and used their trucks and distribution systems to get water out to people for free by the semi load.
> 
> ...


Wow.. I'll have to start saying nice things about Busch.. I didn't know they did that.. 

But something I don't understand.. If clean drinking water is unavailable in such a flooded zone, why not just distill your own drinking water?? That's basic boy scout stuff. 
So what am I not aware of that would prevent people from doing such a thing? 

I've never been in an area that experienced a major flood like that.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Murby said:


> Wow.. I'll have to start saying nice things about Busch.. I didn't know they did that..
> 
> But something I don't understand.. If clean drinking water is unavailable in such a flooded zone, why not just distill your own drinking water?? That's basic boy scout stuff.
> So what am I not aware of that would prevent people from doing such a thing?
> ...



Lack of skills...….most people are a few generations removed from farming/homesteading/self reliance of any kind.


The water comes from the tap or bottles from the store.....much like a domesticated cow will stand in front of the feeder or waterer waiting until such a time as it provides, people will line up at the grocery store or stand in line to buy a bottle of water, when there is none they still go back to and wait at those same places looking/waiting for it to be available again.


Since this is survival and emergency section, we will keep the speculation down to a minimal is this is simply a natural evolution or events or a plan to separate us from the survival skills learned thru many generations and leave the masses very dependent on a system.


Many places even have laws that prevent you in one way or the other from remaining self reliant in these ways, so you have no choice but to wait in line outside the water trough for supplies. It is illegal to harvest rain water in many places, many places do not even allow water rights on land you own or the water is soo far down and only a licensed driller is allowed to make it available if possible.

Some places have laws in effect that prevent you from even growing food in your own yard.....open fires are not allowed in some areas, there can be many reasons from laws to a simple case of lost knowledge...…..



Many skills take specialized knowledge and some of it requires careful use of skill or it could be very dangerous in just doing it or even the end product might be deadly when done wrong...……


Distiling water is asking a lot from tide pod challenge generation, who play video games and walk in front of cars or off a cliff looking for pokeman on the phones. Sadly it is asking a lot for most people as we have lost valuable survival skills since in most cases they are not needed and never used.

One who prepares for these dangers and happens to practice these skills soon finds threads of this nature which insinuate at some point they are crazy nut jobs for learning and practicing useful skills to are a benefit to life.

While many useless trinket and bobble hobbies that consume people are considered normal...…….to each their own, but I submit a plastic toy hobbiest who spends hours a day on the hobby or a Nike shoe collectors who spends thousands is the batspit crazy ones...…….I would never consider a person who learns and practices traditional living skills as crazy for using those skills each day.

That was once considered very normal and was the only way to stay alive.....what is considered normal now, would have been considered crazy then...…..that's why I choose to disregard societal norms as they are situational and change with time.


The skills to stay alive....grow food, secure water and what we need to survive remains unchanged …….


So I tend to hold off any judgement of others......batspit crazy is not limited to any one thing, it encompasses everything and you will certainly know it when you see it, but before you pass judgement of it, remember what most consider normal would have been considered crazy and what most now consider crazy would have been considered normal.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

shawnlee said:


> Distiling water is asking a lot from tide pod challenge generation,


You need to post a warning before saying things like that.. I almost spit my iced tea out my nose.. 

That was funny...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Murby said:


> But something I don't understand.. If clean drinking water is unavailable in such a flooded zone, *why not just distill your own drinking water??* That's basic boy scout stuff.
> So *what am I not aware of* that would prevent people from doing such a thing?
> 
> I've never been in an area that experienced a major flood like that.


You answered your own question:



> I've never been in an area that experienced a major flood like that.


I'm sure you've had this conversation before too though.
The answers are still the same.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> *I'm sure you've had* this conversation before too though.
> The answers are still the same.


Kind'a perverted to follow someone around for several decades, listening to all their conversations.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

Just distillation is not enough as phenol's and petroleum boil at a lower temperature than water so they come over first other chemicals come over at differing temps that are very toxic. depending on your altitude as to what boiling point of water is. Distillation does not carry over minerals in this case the water would strip the minerals from your body because water is a collider it attracts mineral if it is in the water the body absorbs it. If water does not have a certain mineral or too much of one like a lithium it has consequences on the population. 

In the disasters I mentioned it is almost impossible to treat the water you have to allow nature to move it away, this is why a reservoir is such a problem if a toxin enters an amount of time would be needed to allow that to sink or to float and be captured and removed and that could take time too much time if the population was not willing to be patient.

Water purification is a science most water can be rendered drinkable by filtering it through alternating layers of sand and hardwood charcoal in a slow drip if the flow is too fast water can run around to an area of lest resistance and avoid completing the journey through all the layers the charcoal would almost have to be dust granules like peas or not powdered would allow for the water to not be effective enough. so that water may still need to be treated again through another similar type filter and still need to be boiled or distilled depending on the pathogen or toxin.

Some pathogens can survive boiling water for minutes others die in sunlight but unless you have a test facility your average tide pod challenge person would never know or would I as I would be winging it in a survival situation.

There are a couple of ways to test by catching birds and giving them the water or "canary in a coal mine " test or if you have a microscope add the water to normal pond water make sure the water is the same temp and see how the one celled creatures react if they die don't drink the water. it is also not advisable to bathe or wash clothes if the water fails either test.

this is why a personal storage of potable water is the most important part of surviving an event for yourself animals and family that may need rescue and you need proper containers not makeshift milk cartons, tupper wear and your bathtub consider hot weather will result in the need for more water per person per day a minimum is a gallon per day so double that for hot summer.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Sourdough said:


> Kind'a perverted to follow someone around for several decades, listening to all their conversations.


You're making false assumptions.
I didn't have to follow anyone anywhere to know that fact.

I read a lot at many different forums, and it's surprising what one can learn merely by observing.  

It's also surprising how often one will see the same people saying the same things, as well as saying things totally opposite of what they've said elsewhere.

That's why I prefer to stick to the truth.
That way I only have to remember one version of the story.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That way I only have to remember one version of the story.


So............mostly what you post, you claim is "STORY"..........Interesting.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

4tu said:


> There are a couple of ways to test by catching birds and giving them the water or "canary in a coal mine " test *or if you have a microscope add the water to normal pond water make sure the water is the same temp and see how the one celled creatures react if they die don't drink the water.* it is also not advisable to bathe or wash clothes if the water fails either test.


Does that actually work? Seriously? Got a link to that? 

I have a decent microscope that can easily see the little critters in pond water.. Its like a little horror show!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Sourdough said:


> So............mostly what you post, you claim is "STORY"..........Interesting.


No, that's not what I said.
That's you still making false assumptions.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

OK it's getting


Murby said:


> Does that actually work? Seriously? Got a link to that?
> 
> I have a decent microscope that can easily see the little critters in pond water.. Its like a little horror show!


Got that right, but toxins and poisons kill them pretty fast that is why dead water smells foul all the life in it died. if you are bugging out a pocket microscope would be good to see if water is live or dead alkali is poison so water that contained enough to be harmful would be devoid of single cell critters -- so don't drink it. if it is alive treat it then a rolling boil 3 minutes cool and drink.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

Murby said:


> Does that actually work? Seriously? Got a link to that?
> 
> I have a decent microscope that can easily see the little critters in pond water.. Its like a little horror show!


don't know if there is a link but I am sure as soon as someone reads this they would post one -- and it would not be me.

I know many things that are not commonly known I did well in science and chemistry I am fairly intelligent, and like a monkey copy something I have seen done a few times, and I read a lot but not for entertainment I have movies for zoning out and relaxation.

Consider if water has no life or a scant minimum something is wrong in the wild or inner city outside now if we buy distilled water or effervescent or carbonated water it should show no signs of critters.

you still have to be cautious some single celled critters thrive on sulfur and other elements certain grasses remove radiation from the soil of course that wold take a long long time. If you have seen common pond water you know what to look for if the life is not there pass on it.
The great thing about tanks and ponds and lakes is the bottom once a chemical sinks into that it becomes trapped in sediment proof is that Edison had a shop by the river it was so polluted at one time that is was considered dangerous so the Government super fund thought to clean it up even though the water tested clean, once they started dredging all that trapped toxins killed fish for miles, God or nature can handle most of our mistakes problem is we keep making them.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I wrote that what I consider to be bat spit crazy prepping is well illustrated in the film "Blast from the Past". It is about a man who prepares for nuclear war by building a self sustaining bunker. I do not consider this to be bat spit crazy - actually quite practical if you have the money and skill. What I consider bat spit crazy is that he locked his family in for 35 years and actually did not know what the "apocalypse" that they were running from was all about. No fail safe to let them out. Or even find out what was going on above their heads in the world. And a little too happy at the isolation.

I also don't think it is healthy to live anticipating an apocalypse. Prepare for what you think you can control (but so many scenarios would leave no wiggle room) while still living the life you choose in the present day, month, year and century. It may never happen.


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