# Entering a feud with local Humane Shelter.....



## JPiantedosi (Apr 23, 2012)

So the head of the local humane society contacted my wife yesterday claiming there have been complaints related to our LGDs. She claims that the 2 dogs stand in the middle of the road and "intimidate" and bark at cars driving by, And that they have frightened a man riding by on his bike.

However.... Upon being questioned who the complaints came from she claimed that she had filed one (she is our neighbor) and the other was annonymous. My wife called the sheriff dept. and no one had filed any complaints through them.

This woman has come to our house several times and lectured me about getting my bird dogs (all either kenneled or in the house) fixed, and about threw a fit when I told her that I wouldn't fix the LGDs because at some point I have plans to have puppies out of one of them, and I wont get the other fixed till he is at least 18mo. She essentially told me I dont know anything about dogs and they should have been fixed at 6mo. 

Our LGDs have the run of our place from the horse barn to the sheep pasture, since we have had trouble with stray dog harrasing both our horses and sheep. SO they tend to be in the yard alot(about half way between the 2).

At the moment we are kenneling the dogs during the day and letting them "work" at night.

What can I do? I feel like this lady is starting to feel the effects of her "power" after seizing a few animals, and she is trying to flex her authority.

Some one once posted a link to state by state livestock and LGD related
laws. Can that be reposted?

I feel like there is no point in me having these 2 dogs if I cant let them do their job.

Jim


----------



## tracerracer (Oct 6, 2012)

I don't have the link, but in Oregon there is a "right to farm" law that has been 'tested' in court ( 'lost' in the County court, 'won' on appeal )................. As long as the dogs aren't in the road, and actively 'protecting from perceived threats', you'd be covered............


----------



## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Good luck! I had this problem years ago. Neighbor's dogs killing chickens. I got a LGD and came out one morning to the neighbor's dog penned up against a tree by my girl. Took the D dog to the animal shelter. Because he had a drop of blood on his collar, they wanted me to keep my LGD penned up for 30 days. They slapped me with an order to get a kennel license because of the stray barn cats. ($150) They sat in the neighbor's driveway and staked out my place. I went out of town to visit my Dad and the ex let the LGD out. $210.00 fine for ME! I trapped out the cats, put a gate across the drive, and made them come and pick them up. NOT ONCE in the 18 years that I lived in Hendricks county, did I ever get re-imbursed for dog kills from the neighbor's dogs, although that's what the license fees are supposedly supporting.

My advice--get a lawyer NOW, and see if you can back her off.


----------



## JPiantedosi (Apr 23, 2012)

Judy in IN said:


> Good luck! I had this problem years ago. Neighbor's dogs killing chickens. I got a LGD and came out one morning to the neighbor's dog penned up against a tree by my girl. Took the D dog to the animal shelter. Because he had a drop of blood on his collar, they wanted me to keep my LGD penned up for 30 days. They slapped me with an order to get a kennel license because of the stray barn cats. ($150) They sat in the neighbor's driveway and staked out my place. I went out of town to visit my Dad and the ex let the LGD out. $210.00 fine for ME! I trapped out the cats, put a gate across the drive, and made them come and pick them up. NOT ONCE in the 18 years that I lived in Hendricks county, did I ever get re-imbursed for dog kills from the neighbor's dogs, although that's what the license fees are supposedly supporting.
> 
> My advice--get a lawyer NOW, and see if you can back her off.


Yeah, im kind of leaning that way my self.... 

Fact is I told my wife last nigght if the idiots at the humane shelter get real dumb about this I will go very deep in debt to make sure I own that building and turn it into a puppy mill... 

This is just another case of city folks who move to the country and dont quite get it. im not sure why she wouldnt just come knock on the door.

Jim


----------



## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Who's her boss? Even if she runs the shelter, her paycheck comes from somewhere. If it is a county shelter, go to the mayor/council/board of directors.
If it is a private one - they can't take the bad publicity.

Put pressure on where the money is coming from.
Also, if she is coming to your house, make her follow the letter of the law EXACTLY. If she is a law enforcement official (which many will say they are, when they're not) she needs to be in uniform, have a badge and file all paperwork properly, and you get a copy. 
If she's not, she needs to have a uniformed officer with her. 
As soon as she shows up, call the cops and start recording everything.


----------



## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

What Otter said, plus a lawyer. 

I discovered that Animal Control LOVES to control people. The people who are trying to be law-abiding get jerked around, while the irresponsible people just keep on going. 

She's already throwing her weight around; kinda got that rent-a-cop syndrome. She'll take that itty-bitty piece of authority and S-t-r-e-t-c-h it as far as she can. 

Lawyer-UP! Or you'll never win.

She has already knocked on your door and told you what to do with your dogs and life. You didn't listen. Now she's using the stick. You need to get your own stick and swat her across the chops a couple of times with it.


----------



## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Is this a local SPCA-type place, or is it the place where Animal Control houses the animals that they seize (and it may be both - the one I worked at was)?

Unless this person is actually an Animal Control Officer, SHE cannot make you do anything :shrug:. She can report you to AC, harass you, call the cops on you, etc...but SHE does not have the authority to do anything other than what any other normal citizen could do.

You could hire a local attorney to handle this, but before you do that I'd call your local Animal Control and ask them point-blank if this lady is one of their officers. Explain that you have working LGD's and per the legal precedents in your state that you are aware of, your dogs are doing nothing wrong. However this lady is HARASSING you and threatening XYZ, and you just want to know if she's sworn law enforcement or not <innocent> and if she is, you want to speak to her supervisor. When they tell you she's NOT an AC officer, thank them for their time and politely hang up. What this does is put the REAL AC on alert that this lady is harassing and threatening people, so if/when she calls them they have a heads-up as to what game she's playing.

Then call the local sheriff's office and ask what you need to do to about her harassing you, and specifically inquire about a restraining order and your legal recourse if she tries to seize your dogs without having the authority to do so. Same deal as above, in that you're putting them on alert that this lady has an issue with your well-cared for WORKING dogs.

If she contacts you again after you take those two steps, then you should call an attorney. Do the research now on which attorney you want to use so you can just pick up the phone and call. If she steps foot on your property again, call the police immediately and report her as a trespasser and ask an officer to come remove her.

Ignoring her will only empower her. Nip this in the bud, QUICK.


----------



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Bluemoonluck hit on the head what I would do!

A similar situation occurred here with a neighbor who chose to set their house just 20 ft from our fence. The lady there called and reported my dogs so many times that the last time the Animal Control Officer came over he told me it had become obvious to him through the months that I took good care of my dogs, indeed all my animals he said; and the Officer told me his office was getting tired of her complaints. He had come out this time only because he had to follow thru! (It wasn't long after that this neighbor moved...and I was so very happy.) 

You do need to be active. I sure wouldn't just wait for her to continue to feel as though she has some type of intimidating power over you.


----------



## MARYDVM (Jun 7, 2004)

Are the dogs in the road? Or are they confined to your property?


----------



## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

You will want to check the laws in your state and county to make sure you are not in violation of any laws. In my state, livestock owners have a duty to keep animals confined to their own property unless they are in an area designated "open range". That also applies to our LGDs since they are part of the ag enterprise.

If your dogs are on the county road and you are not on open range, the law might not support your dogs running completely loose.

That said, I hope you can back her off. Shelters are notoriously not friendly to folks who use working dogs -LGDs, herding.

Good luck.

Anita
Dan-Ani Pygmy Goats, Idaho


----------



## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

MARYDVM asked the question that I had. Are these dogs on your property? If they are and IF you are in a state that has a "right to farm" law then you are fine, but will most likely still have to fight for your rights. If the dogs are going out onto the public right of way or a neighbors property then people have good reason to be upset and to file complaints. As someone who was harassed by a local Animal Control "officer" I can tell you that often as not their boss knows ---- well what they are doing and they don't care. Enough people will roll over and pay the fines and let them do what they will and most will not fight. Get a lawyer, research the local county and state laws, and be prepared for it to get ugly. Also lock your gate and post no trespassing signs if you don't already do that and consider getting a game camera for the gate area. Our ACO was climbing out gate when we were at work and taking himself on tours of the place. I wish we had the game cam for more proof (he actually documented his illegal activities on our property (without a search warrant or just cause) in his reports. Had we been in the position to pay even more to a lawyer we would have sued the county.


----------



## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

I would have a conversation with them
1. Why should I get my dogs fixed? They will come off with the standard answers, I.E. it is more healthy for them, less rick of cancer unwanted breeding ect.
(I then turn the tables and ask if they are going to have their children fixed, less rick of ovarian, cervical or testicular cancers, and it eliminates unwanted breeding.)
Then they have no answers, 
2. What do they want from me? 
3. Why is it any of their business what I do with my animals on my property?
4. If the internet hacker group anonymous, has a problem with your dogs, they know where you live. Seriously it is just a way for them to make up fake stories, that never happened, and is a violation of the 4th amendment because it does not satisfy *"supported by oath or affirmation,"*
5. I would go to the local sheriff and magistrate, file a complaint against her, the shelter and their funders. They are infringing on your right to farm, and violating your 4th amendment ""*The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."*
Your place of living is your house, your dogs are your effects
That is where I would start


----------



## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

anita_fc said:


> You will want to check the laws in your state and county to make sure you are not in violation of any laws. In my state, livestock owners have a duty to keep animals confined to their own property unless they are in an area designated "open range". That also applies to our LGDs since they are part of the ag enterprise.
> 
> If your dogs are on the county road and you are not on open range, the law might not support your dogs running completely loose.
> 
> ...


My property is on both sides of a state road, the cornerstone on my barn says 1803, and the 1937 state road is on the old farm road up thru the valley. The state maintains a right away for the road, but technically it is still my property. Deed and recorded as 1 parcel with the road through it.
When I lost a dog on the road _(he was chasing a bear off) _I told the people my insurance would pay to fix their car. If they needed a ride tow truck or both I would take care of that, shortly. They were so upset _(I think about me shooting the dog, his, spine was severed)_ they called the State police, Pat Dowling shows up, he asked me what happened. I told him to ask them they were there, I was up behind the spring house and heard brakesqueal and a thump, knew someone hit something, so I came down. 
"They said "the bear came running out she slamed on the brakes not to hit it and hit the dog right behind it. Then I came out of the tree line messed with the dog a minute and shot it. Put it in a tractor bucket and drove it up on the hill"
After checking he told them my dog never left the property, that since they had comprehensive coverage, that would pay for the damage, and I didn't have to, but offered to pay their deductible. She asked why I shot the dog, I told her his spine was severed, that was what I was checking poking his hind quarters with my knife point, an I was not going to bury him alive. That it is a loss to me _(The dogs production value of at least $25K) _but the dog was doing his job, I never saw the bear dont know how close he was to me. 
_PS: This is the 1st time I really thought of it all together:smack, just after dawn, you see a bear, then hit a dog. Some Grisly Adams looking guy comes out of the trees pokes the dog several times with a knife, then pulls out a pistol and shoots it. (maybe they were nervous)_


----------



## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Don't worry too much about paying for the lawyer, if you have good grounds for a civil suit many will take the case on contingency for 20-50% no win no pay.


----------



## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

Boyohboy. You do have seem to have a lawyer-worthy case where your property is on both sides of the road. Still, here in Idaho if you are not on Open Range, you would be required to keep you animals off of the state road. Don't know how they do it in other states. I believe I'd bet getting that lawyer.

Hope you will keep us posted. Again, good luck. (I did have to LOL about what those people must have been thinking!)

Anita
Dan-Ani Pygmy Goats, Idaho


----------



## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

Oops, mixed up Rock with the OP.

Anita
Dan-Ani Pygmy Goats, Idaho


----------



## stanley (Aug 22, 2011)

I had the Dept. of Game hassle me when they had no cause they called the Dept of Agriculture who declined to take up their case they then called the County Animal Control who was more than willing to take action. An inexpensive letter from a Lawyer stating they were to bring a warrant next time they showed up or he would file charges on them for harassment stopped the madness.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Rock said:


> (I then turn the tables and ask if they are going to have their children fixed, less rick of ovarian, cervical or testicular cancers, and it eliminates unwanted breeding.)


That is a good one.
Hope I can remember it the next time I hear someone talk about neutering and spaying.
Thanks


----------



## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

pancho said:


> That is a good one.
> Hope I can remember it the next time I hear someone talk about neutering and spaying.
> Thanks


When people get nasty with me because I breed dogs, and talk about all the poor homeless shelter dogs out there needing homes, I ask them if they have any kids. When they say yes I say "Well I certainly hope you adopted all of them! It would be terribly selfish of you to breed biological children while there are millions of orphans waiting for homes all over the world! Really, with the human overpopulation crisis our planet is facing, having biological children is irresponsible!" That usually shuts them up quite nicely :grin:


----------



## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

The OP used the phrase "local humane society" so I start with figuring that's what's involved, the Humane Society but not a more official pound or animal control facility. I'd start by researching the group's official structure then call their state office after researching your state and local laws. The problem with lawyering-up might be that the woman would have Humane Society attorneys to handle any action unless you could show she is *not* following their organization's policies and procedures. I seem to recall reading that some of their branches are closely connected to PETA whackos, but others, not so much so. I like the idea of game cameras or security cameras covering the road area, but that could get expensive fast if you can't plan to use the equipment sensibly elsewhere on your property later on, too. I'd be most concerned about possibilities that the dogs actually do at times stand on the pavement and/or chase bicyclists. You'd need to train them out of any such behaviors, pronto, if they do, or else limit their road access, imo.


----------



## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

Local Humane Societies in general are not tied in any way, shape, or form to the Humane Society Of The United States. HSUS actually gives less than 1% of what they take in via donations to any shelters. 

Since the OP has not commented on any of this or answered any questions to help us help them, it is kind of hard and we are all basically just thrashing around in the dark. I hope it works out well for them. Trouble with people over dogs is a real headache.


----------

