# Saintolians!



## Michelle98 (May 29, 2012)

Our beautiful Anatolian Shepherd is in the process of delivering! She just had her 7 th puppy! We are so excited! She was bred to our incredible St. Bernard. This is her third litter. The puppies we have had from these two are just amazing. We have kept one from each litter. They are indoor ottomans and outdoor border patrol! We have never lost an animal to a predator yet! Pictures to come!


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

I have wondered about that combo and the saint/pry. need pics. what a nice gift for thanksgiving.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Oh cool!!! How did it go and how many? And pics!! Gotta see those pretty babies


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## Sumatra (Dec 5, 2013)

harvestmoon1964 said:


> Nor are St. Bernards in any way LGD's. The only people who will buy these pups as working dogs are people who shouldn't because they don't know anything. Definitely mutts.


I know many people have strong opinions towards the quality of purebreds, but honestly I wouldn't get anything that wasn't a mutt, and especially not for homesteading purposes. Most breeders have ruined dogs trying to cultivate certain traits.


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## harvestmoon1964 (Apr 24, 2014)

Sumatra said:


> I know many people have strong opinions towards the quality of purebreds, but honestly I wouldn't get anything that wasn't a mutt, and especially not for homesteading purposes. Most breeders have ruined dogs trying to cultivate certain traits.


Still doesn't mean they are LGD's. A Pyr/Anatolian cross, or two of the other LGD breeds would make a meaningful LGD cross, but calling this cross an LGD is simply not true.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Hopefully they aren't being sold as lgds.


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## Michelle98 (May 29, 2012)

These are the dogs that we have combined to guard our family and our livestock. They are wonderful dogs who don''t bark all night, don't run off for miles, and get the job done. 

And where did I say they were Lgd's? Are they large? Yes.. Do they guard? Yes. But I didn't advertise lgd. 

Our girl had a total of 8! They are precious.


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## harvestmoon1964 (Apr 24, 2014)

Michelle98 said:


> And where did I say they were Lgd's? ...I didn't advertise lgd.





Michelle98 said:


> These ARE LDGs! Nothing gets past ours.





Michelle98 said:


> Hi Wintering,
> 
> We have a litter of Saintolians! They are Anatolian/St.Bernard crosses. They are incredible livestock guardians. We kept a pup from last year and she is amazing. They are almost 7 weeks.
> 
> We are just across the border in ID. Not sure where you are.


You actually have a thread entitled, "Saintolians! LGD Puppies for sale!"
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/li...saintolians-lgd-puppies-sale.html#post7108728


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## Michelle98 (May 29, 2012)

That's true. But as I was chastised last April I chose to learn from that mistake. It shows that you people on this forum just choose to continue to criticize. I will not post here again. I didnt know this forum was only for purebreds. I thought it was for successful guardians. Again, my mistake.


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## farmmaid (Jan 13, 2003)

What is up with the cruel remarks. She was happy sharing her excitement. If you are not interested in the breeds, do not buy one. The breed mix works for her and she is sharing her experience! Can not believe this thread!!!!!!!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Michelle98 said:


> That's true. But as I was chastised last April I chose to learn from that mistake. It shows that you people on this forum just choose to continue to criticize. I will not post here again. I didnt know this forum was only for purebreds. I thought it was for successful guardians. Again, my mistake.


You are correct. If they are working for you they are good enough for this forum and maybe others that are not as critical as some that chose to be not so nice here.


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

These are the type of dogs_ I'm_ interested in hearing about. I would give it serious consideration if she lived closer!


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

I hope she comes back. I think it's an interesting combination, regardless and the pups are adorable.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

We had St. Bernard/pry cross puppies once. They were a lot more territorial than the plain GP. I am really interested to see how how tour cross turns out for LGD needs. I assume they will be "hard" dogs compared to a plain GP. They would be great to deter human threats. Please keep us updated on their growth and how they fit into your homestead needs. I know they will be beautiful. Congratulations!


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

First let me just start by saying I hope you do not take some of the comments above to heart as personal attacks and do continue to post and be involved with this forum. These forums benefit everyone when they have input from varied backgrounds and experiences. I will also say I can see some of the points being made, as far as being factually correct as far as breed categories set forth by the various kennel, breed organizations and historical uses for various breeds. 

Let me explain how I got started here which may help explain my position a bit. I read back through literally hundreds of old post before I ever joined this forum. This allowed me to understand some peoples opinions on various topics and see where some were very passionate about different issues. What this did was allow me to start posting and not take offense to some of the comments made as I simply realized that is how that person was "To Everybody". here have actually been a few on various forums here that I wished the moderators would have banned, but in the end I finally decided that from time to time they did add valuable information and maybe some of their comments were not to intentionally be hurtful, but they simply lacked the vocabulary and/or social skills to express their opinions in another way.

Look, I myself have taken issue with the numerous "cutesy" names being developed for all for the toy mixes out there now. do not find it cute, but rather see it as a marketing ploy to entice uneducated buyers to otherwise mixed breed pups. I am not sure Saintatolian is a valid breed name?? But many people make up all kinds of titles for their post. I have seen some titles which had absolutely nothing to do with the threads at all, and lured me into a thread I really had no interest in. I do not believe that is what this poster was trying to do. I understood what the thread was going to be about and sure enough, that is what it was about. Saint Bernard and Anatolian cross puppies. Are they LGD's in the true sense of the word according to breed registries, probably not. Is it possible that these pups have proven to be good homestead dogs and guard livestock and their owners, absolutely. Would I consider one if I were looking for a LGD, I probably would. 

I guess what I am trying to say is, while I understand those who are serious about their breeds and the point they were making that by definition they are not true LGD's. I do not think the OP was intentionally trying to mislead anyone with her description, so I see nothing wrong with the post. I certainly understand the excitement of having a new litter of puppies!! Again, I hope the OP does not give up on this forum, please understand not everyone expresses their opinions in the same way and though it sometimes seems like it ( I know I feel that way at times) not all negative comments are meant to condemn, sometimes they are legitimate arguments just not presented very well.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Sorry, double posted. Stupid computer!!


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

harvestmoon1964 said:


> You actually have a thread entitled, "Saintolians! LGD Puppies for sale!"
> http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/li...saintolians-lgd-puppies-sale.html#post7108728


I thought I remembered them being advertised as lgds. This is a repeat breeding then, the mom's last litter would be 5 months old now. Thanks for the link.


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

I see no reason why this cross can't be good for what the op breed them for. Being nasty is not the point of these forums. Play nice or don't say anything.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

What is wrong worth you negative naysayers here?! Good grief, the poor OP was just excited about her puppies, and I happen to think they are probably awesome dogs. Just because you don't think that as well doesn't give you the right to be jerks about it. If you don't like them, just hush, that would be nice. 

Sorry OP, I do hope you will share more pics of your litter soon


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## farmmaid (Jan 13, 2003)

I hope you do come back. We can always learn new things, isn't that what this forum is about?


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I for one would be interested in seeing some picks of the St. Bernard and the older pups from the previous litters. I like short haired dogs myself, funny how some come out short and some long?? I have been looking for a male pup for a while. I am not sure what part of Missouri ID is in, but I suspect it would be a long drive from here in Arkansas???


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## Michelle98 (May 29, 2012)

I really thank those who reached out to me and defended me! I am back because of you.

I do consider our dogs lgds in the sense of their breeding purpose and their proven ability. I understand that in the "purist" sense of the term they ars not because of the St.Bernard in them. However i would like to share why we choose this combination and what their temperments are like. This is our third litter. We have kept one each from the first two.

What we like in the St.Bernard is their love and loyalty to family. They are not prone to roam and have a relaxed attitude. HOWEVER we have also found that once riled they are all fire. Ha! Our St. Bernard went after a porcupine he was sure was going to kill us and only stopped attacking it when my husband killed it. He had 300 quills in his face alone. He also kept a mother moose and her baby surrounded and away from my kids for 8 hours til she moved on. Another time he cornered a 25 lb raccoon that was after our chickens in the middle of the night. Also, he found one of our sheep that had escaped and brought her home.

The negative to a Saint is that they have a scary bark but are friendly to strangers. He also barks at cars coming up our road but if they talk nice to him he is all for a scratch.

Most of you already know and appreciate the good qualities of the Anatolian. They are very protective of property, fierce livestock guardians, and not tolerant of strangers. I also love the intelligence of this breed. Anatolian don't just go up and bite people. They have a system. They give warning barks and growls and will only attack if not heeded. These dogs though can bark a lot and tend to roam.

So, in combining the breeds we hoped for temperament that would add some fiercness to the loving saint bernard disposition while toning done the Anatolian aggression towards people and the will to roam. And that is just what we got! These dogs take their animal protection seriously as well as their family loyalty. It is an incredible mix and we and our clients have been very happy.


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## Michelle98 (May 29, 2012)

Most of our dogs have gone to farms in Idaho, Montana, washington, and oregon. This big male is a sheep guardian on a hundred acre farm. They also got another in the second litter as a house guardian.


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## Michelle98 (May 29, 2012)

Here are some puppy pics from last litter!


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## Michelle98 (May 29, 2012)

Yes Muleman! We get short hair or medium hair. We kept the short haired.  I can get some pictures of our 18month old female and our 7 month old male. He has already grown passed his sister! Big boy


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

In all honesty I wish you were closer to me. I am tired of contacting breeders and having them expect me to pay big money, just because they can list a long line of names, which I guess is supposed to be impressive? A dog must be physically able to perform the task and have a stable mindset, but the most important part will be proper training. I remember a few years back when I was looking for a hog dog (as in hunting, not guardian) I visited a guy who had Leopard Catahoulas. I explained what I wanted to do and ask if he thought the dogs would be suitable for the job. He told me all about his dogs and how good the parents and previous litters were at hunting and baying. He explained to me that the father would bay, but not catch! The mother would try to catch rather than bay, if she had another dog with her. He then told me something profound in my mind that everyone on here can benefit from, if they will take it to heart. 

"If you spend time with the dog and show it what you want, it will do a good job for you, if you simply take it home and feed it, it will just be a dog!!

Pedigree may give an inclination of ability, but it does not insure a dog that will do a good job. Another way of looking at it is this. A doctors son will not automatically know how to be a doctor when he grows up, without being trained as such. The same way that there are many good doctors who did not have doctors as a parent. 

I became uninterested in the horse world because of the tendency to throw around big names and have your horse judged just as much by pedigree as ability. I was drawn to the mule world because there is no pedigree and each animal is judged on ability, not the grand sire, of the grand mother, of the blahh blahh blahh. I view dogs in the same way. I do not want to hear what some dog did generations back, I want to hear what your dogs are doing now. There is not a wild hog or dog that I know of in Arkansas who knows how to read, so all the pedigree papers in the world will not protect your stock here. You better have a dog with physical ability, who has been trained to know his job.
Size matters, just ask why we want to have a big military, or in a fight the big guy usually has the advantage. Why do people choose big people as body guards? Agility is important, but a Chihuahua is fairly agile and quick, but I do not want one as a guardian.
I can see the benefit of breeding an Anatolian to the much larger St. Bernard in that light. If you are able to add size without losing the mindset of the Anatolian.

I believe people are mistaken if they believe they can simply buy a dog classified as a LGD and take it home and turn it out in their pasture and they will have a dog that will know what to do and guard their property. Come on people lets use a little common sense here. Lets think this through, if you take a child with a high IQ and place them in a room with a bunch of rocket parts, do you think they will just know how to build a rocket??


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

What gorgeous pups Wish I needed one right about now. Sigh...


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## BrownYaks (Mar 6, 2013)

We have two purebred Saints who are great with our sheep.
I will say they aren't bonded to the flock but they definitely see them as part of their domain. 

They definitely take after momma as far as looks go don't they?


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## Michelle98 (May 29, 2012)

BrownYaks said:


> We have two purebred Saints who are great with our sheep.
> I will say they aren't bonded to the flock but they definitely see them as part of their domain.
> 
> They definitely take after momma as far as looks go don't they?


Yes they do! They also get a lot bigger than Anatolians though. More muscle.

Could you post a pic of your Saints?


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## Michelle98 (May 29, 2012)

Hi Muleman! I agree with you. We have found that this mix is very intelligent. We had a GP in the past and she was not a smart dog. She barked all night and didn't care about us at all. And she loved to eat our free range chickens. We paid a LOT of money for her. 

I wanted a dog that bonded with family as much as they bond with their animals.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Well said Muleman. 

I just wanted to sneak peeks at cute puppies! Success for that at least.


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

You know, I think this breeding would have a higher chance of being a failure in situations where the dog(s) are way out with the flock and basically by themselves. No people around, really. You see that here a lot with the sheep around here. The flock and dogs are out on the range and checked on once a day or so.

However, as a farm dog/lgd, these would probably be awesome. My situation is one like that. The dog has the run of the pastures and 'house yard'. The animals are all on roughly 40 acres and we can see it all from the house. We need a dog that patrols, defends/attacks if necessary but, most importantly, lets us know something is up so we can go out and take care of it. The dog also needs to be well attached to the family and good with people. We don't have a lot of people over, but the kids do have their friends over and they do go out and play in the pastures. The dog watches over them just as much as the he does the animals. I have had good luck with Pyrs in this regard but my best is my current and he is a GP/farm collie cross. He's great with kids and our animals and is very friendly with most people. Unfortunately, we've had a new pack of coyotes move in and an increase in mountain lion traffic and he's getting old. I think it's a bit much for him to take on by himself at the moment. So, I'm in the market for a couple of new dogs.

Anyway, these would still be legitimate lgds in the correct situations.

I really, really, really wish Michelle98 was closer!


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