# Cydectin Sheep drench...



## KayJay (Oct 3, 2006)

So I was looking around online for some of the Cydectin Sheep Drench thinking I'd like to try it out. I found some here:PBS Animal Health - Cydectin Sheep Drench , but it says in the description in bold letters that it is formulated for use in sheep only. What's that all about? I don't know if that's to keep people from using it on animals like dogs or horses or whatever or if it's _really_ only for sheep. I know a couple people here said they use the sheep drench on their goats, do any of you know if that's what they mean? Does anyone know what the difference is between the sheep drench and the cattle pour-on? And last but not least, does anyone know of a source for either where I could order smaller amounts (like just enough to dose 5 adult goats once)? I'm moving soon, and while wormers like Safeguard and Ivermectin aren't too effective here anymore, they are said to be very effective still in the area I'm moving to, so I don't really want to buy a whole lot of Cydectin when I already have a bunch of Safeguard and Ivermectin on hand to use after I move.
Thanks in advance!
ETA: Forgot to add, Livestock Concepts, Inc. says not to use it in sheep that are producing milk for human consumption, so I'm wondering if it's different than the cattle pour-on because it's given orally? But then wouldn't the pour-on given orally to goats have the same issue? Ugh! :help: lol


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

Look to buy the wormer from COWDOCTORLADY on Ebay. Its the best price around. You may have to email her to get her to list it for you.


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## Jillis (Sep 11, 2005)

Cydectin Cattle Pour On is cheaper in the long run. You use less. I got mine from either Jeffers or PBS Animal Supplies, I forget which.

HTH!

Jill!


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## KayJay (Oct 3, 2006)

Thanks for the input!


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

You use less cow pour on and do less killing of worms.

Consider the following - A pour on is made to be somewhat impervious to water so that rain doesn't wash it off the cow. The rumen of a goat or sheep is an aqueous (water) environment. It stands to reason that a drench made without the water repellent properties functions better in the rumen. I'll stick with the drench for my money.

And guess what - if the use of the pour on doesn't kill all the worms you have helped manufacture resistant worms to the best wormer that is out there. Once worms are resistant to this there isn't another wormer to change to - thats why you should be using cydectin as the last resort and be using what is proper for the animal. Doubt what I say - ask your vet his opinion.

Last time I purchased it from COWDOCTORLADY on ebay it was $55.00 per liter and they paid shipping.


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## Jillis (Sep 11, 2005)

Huh! Interesting, Yucca. I was actually quite tired and didn't key in on the "drench" aspect, I was thinking of the cydectin sheep pour-on.

I know that the cydectin cattle pour on did a fantastic job of clearing my heard of ivermectin resistant worms and I haven't needed to repeat it for a long time now. 

Now I would like to hear some input on this from Vicki, Emily and susanne, please!


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

There isn't a sheep pour on that I know of.

If the cow pour on was effective and used as a pour on for sheep I would use it in a minute. It is used as a drench, which it was not intended for. Why do you think the company would go to the expense of making, developing and testing a drench IF the pour on would do the job properly in sheep or goats? Doesn't make sense to me. Why use something off label when there is a product that is labeled??

I think the goat dosage is twice the sheep dosage.

BTW before using the Cydectin at all, check the goats eyelids and see if the conjunctiva is pink. If it is pink they don't need worming at all. Worming for the sake of worming with the last available wormer on the market is trying to help the worms develop immunity. If the eye test isn't your cup of tea, better yet is to learn how to do a worm assay yourself or have the vet do a worm assay.


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## Jillis (Sep 11, 2005)

Just to say: I am definitely not trying to be argumentive here. I am interested in finding the best treatments myself. 

Sometimes when something doesn't make sense to us, it isn't because it really doesn't make sense, it is because we don't have all the relevant information. 

For example, the cattle pour on wasn't developed as a drench, but it doies work well in goats as one. It may, or may not, work better than a drench made specifically for goats. Why? Maybe because goats have not prior to just recently been a big agribusiness, hence the research has not been done or put out there to confirm why this may or may not be so. 

This is why I pay close attention when emily (ozark jewels), vicki and susanne give input. Emily and Vicki have decades of experience, as well all three being highly intelligent women who have done tons of research and tried a lot of different methods. There experience and knowledge is a tremendous resource to me. 

So, Vicki? Emily? susanne? What's the scoop. 

BTW---I wouldn't worm just because the eyelids and gums are not pink or red enough. That would just be my first step in diagnosing a problem. After that, I would do a fecal---THAT would be the appropriate indicator for worming. There can be other reasons for anemia.


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## crazygoatgirl (Dec 6, 2004)

I have a supply company and I do know Vicki, Emily, and Susanne. I also have had goats for going on 21 years.
The Cydectin Sheep Drench is half the strength of the Pour On, meaning that it has half the ammount of active ingredient in it. This is why you are supposed to use it twice the strength that you would use for sheep. Also remember that there are several products that are made for goats that will kill sheep. Another thing to keep in mind is that almost everything that is used for goats is used off-label because there simply are not many goat products out there and there were even less 2 years ago. There are only 2 dewormers that are "cleared" for goats 1 being Safgaurd and 2 being Rumentel. Here in the south Safegaurd has been very ineffective for years and with me having dairy goats I do not use Rumentel products because of milk withdrawl.
If you pay $58 for a Ltr of the sheep drench or $58 for 500ml of the Pour on then you are still getting the same amount of active ingredient.
So it pretty much goes to preference of producer after that. I absolutely say to do fecals to see what class of wormers to use to kill the particular worm burden that your animals have. If you can not do fecals then the next best thing is to check eyelids and talk to other folks in your area that are doing fecals to see what wormers they are using at different times of the year.
I am not trying to be contraversial, just wanted to give my .02 as a person that has goats for many years and also a person that supplies many people with dewormers.


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

The question that still begs an answer is what is in the pour-on that may INHIBIT it from working properly in the rumen/digestive track of the goat/sheep?? When that is answered then you have the true answer to the question. Maybe the pour-on needs to be twice the strength of the drench because the pour-on water repellent inhibits its working properly. Maybe the drench can be half strength of the pour-on because it isn't inhibited from working. Do you really want to subject your animals to anymore chemicals than necessary???

As a SUPPLIER you should KNOW these answers - you should have access to the manufacturer and get the data. You should have the answer because if you sell product to users and the product causes harm to their goats/sheep YOU ARE LIABLE. As for me IF I were a supplier I would be following and recommending the product the manufacturer is willing to stand behind, and I sincerely DOUBT that the manufacturer stands behind the use of the pour-on as a drench. If they did why would they have gone through the trouble of licensing and testing a drench. 

If any of you are selling milk or meat - really be careful here.


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## crazygoatgirl (Dec 6, 2004)

crazygoatgirl said:


> I have a supply company and I do know Vicki, Emily, and Susanne. I also have had goats for going on 21 years.
> The Cydectin Sheep Drench is half the strength of the Pour On, meaning that it has half the ammount of active ingredient in it. This is why you are supposed to use it twice the strength that you would use for sheep. Also remember that there are several products that are made for goats that will kill sheep. Another thing to keep in mind is that almost everything that is used for goats is used off-label because there simply are not many goat products out there and there were even less 2 years ago. .


The manufacturer does not stand behind the use of a Pour On as a drench just as they do not stand behind using the *sheep* drench on goats because it is all off label as far as they are concerned.
If someone orders Cydectin in any form from me I do not ask them what they are using it on and I do not make reccomendations as to what kind of dewormer they use. The decision is totally up to them and what they choose to do. I do use Cydectin Pour On on *my* animals because that is what I choose to do upon my vet recommending for me to do so.
I have asked the manufacturer what the carrier is in the Pour On that makes it water proof and they will not divulge that information or any information that I have asked for as to the difference of the drench drug content vs. the Pour On drug content and why it is so much different.
As for milk and meat- I know that some folks do not care about withdrawl times and do not give that information to their customers that buy milk or meat. I do know withdrawl times for the dewormers that I use and I do inform my milk customers about the times of withdrawl and I rotate my girls deworming so my customers will not be without milk.


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

Just for fun and giggles I will ask my vet which he will recommend for worming my goats. 

Anyone care to guess which off label product he will choose??


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## Sweet Goats (Nov 30, 2005)

If you stop and think about it, isn't about ALL the products we use on our goats OFF LABEL PRODUCTS? there really isn't much made for goats. 
I just used the Cydectin on a doe of mine that has all her hair on her butt, under her tail, around her nose and eye falling off. I have had a Vet almost not pass her for a Health check becasue they were not sure. I have used Ivomectin and other stuff and it has not changed. I was told by someone to use it 2X the recommended amount (as per cattle), and a week later use the recommended amout. guess what, it is clearing up. She has had this for two years now.


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## Jillis (Sep 11, 2005)

Yucca, it is really hard to tell tones of "voice" on line, but you do sound a bit sarcastic and defensive. We are all trying to find the best answers. No one is arguing with you simply because they are questioning the information you favor. 



> Just for fun and giggles I will ask my vet which he will recommend for worming my goats.
> 
> Anyone care to guess which off label product he will choose??



For what its worth, I have yet to find a vet, except for one who was raised on a goat farm and specialized in goats, who really knows anything helpful about goats at all. And I live in an area with LOTS of goats. Lots of big lievstock, too. 

That's why I turn more to those on this forum with knowledge and experience rather than opinions.


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## Patty0315 (Feb 1, 2004)

Use whatever product you like ! We have the results to show that Cydectin pour on given orally to goats works. Plain and simple. Fecal before and fecal after. The proof is in the testing.

As for asking Vets go ahead . I am sure a few girls on this forum know more about goat health than 95% of the Vets do . There is not alot of money to be made in goats for Vets or vaccine companies. If there were you bet we would have more knowledgeable Vets and more products labeled for goats .

If someone wishes to spend more on sheep drench than go ahead . I am sure Sharon could always use more buisness. By the way her prices are great and I would rather give my money to someone I know.


Patty


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Well......almost *everything* is off label in goats.....so that is not a reason not to use something. As for asking the vet?? My vet says to use Safeguard....ahem, say what?? Safeguard is like worming with water. Oh, and if Safeguard doesn't work?? He says to use Ivomec(also off label, notice). Well, that doesn't work here either. Most vets know about *this* much about what really works in goats, because most do not have a herd of their own. So they reccomend what they *think* works and we the owners have to deal with the results.
Why do I use the Cydectin Cattle Pour-On orally?? It *works* and has for many years. I personally have not tried the sheep drench, but see no reason to when the cattle pour-on works so well.


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## KayJay (Oct 3, 2006)

KayJay said:


> ETA: Forgot to add, Livestock Concepts, Inc. says *not to * use it in sheep that are *producing milk for human consumption*, so I'm wondering if it's different than the cattle pour-on because it's given orally? But then wouldn't the pour-on given orally to goats have the same issue? Ugh! :help: lol


Anyone have any info to share on this part? I think this is the biggest question for me now, and thanks for all the answers!


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## APPway (May 27, 2005)

cydectin has changed the way parasites in cattle are controlled. Cattle treated with Cydectin can easily be recognized by a purple streak on their back, which remains for a short period of time after treatment. Cydectin also features no slaughter withdrawal or milk withholding when used according to label directions - 1 ml. per 22 pounds of body weight. This means treated cattle may be used for human consumption any time following treatment. Cydectin controls roundworms, lungworms, lice, grubs, horn flies and mites. It controls the brown stomach worm (Ostertagia ostertagi) for 28 days and the Dictyocaulus viviparus lungworm for 42 days after treatment.

http://www.americanlivestock.com/p-281-cydectin-pour-on.aspx


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

First......just because you are moving to a new area that Safeguard works at for the folks around there, I would be curious for them to name the worms it works on, because aren't you taking your resistant worms with you IN your stock as you move? Yes...in case you didn't figure that out  But if you like me rarely see strongieds and are moving onto property where they are a problem, where like me you always fight haemoncous, than your worming strategy may need to change. Cydectin is a great wormer, but we also know it doesn't touch tapes or 4th stage arrested larve of haemoncous, so you really are having to deal with other wormers anyway during different lifecycles of the worms life.

I don't use FAMACHA as a first line of defense, the eyelid test talked about above, because you are then worming at salvage. The doe is already getting anemic when you then worm, probably not a problem in sheep, but in production animals by the time you see anemia that can be seen with an eyelid FAMACHA test, you have lost milk and likely condition on the animal. I do check eyelids, but this is along with fecals, the only real secret bullet with all this.

I know that Ivermectin oral sheep drench is many times less drug than Ivermectin 1% injectable, and I don't recommend it for goats because it's nearing the need of being tubed in goats it's soo much carrier toget to the same percentage of drug...I would worry about aspiration in bigger goats. Same as using Sulmet that is already made in the little white bottles, compared to using a much more concentrated sulfa or corrid.

I am not switching to a more expensive product that you have to use more of, the 1cc per 25 pounds of the cattle pouron orally in a goat is just way too conveinent and we know it works, we don't have to refecal after worming to see if this new product with a new carrier is working or what the milk withdrawal of the new carrier is.

The rumen is not filled with water, it is actually quite dry, goats do not drink water into their rumen, they cock the valve in their neck and the water slides past the rumen into the 3rd stomach. The water in the rumen is mostly saliva, so this whole carrier for pouron cydectin vs/compared to the oral drench carrier isn't very supportive of the defense of one over the other. 

I know most folks don't care about all the info some of us do care about, they want a simple answer to the question of....what do I worm my goat with and how much and how often. Purchase the Cydectin pour on, worm your doe the day she kid, 10 days after, when you wean her kid and before the buck breeds her. Think about worming with something like Ivermectin Plus when she is 100 days bred for liverflukes and lungworm if you have standing water or snails on your property...worm you infants with safeguard or Valbazen at 3 and 6 weeks, the only time that tapes are problem in your herd than move to Cydectin at weaning. Use it orally, 1cc per 25 pounds. Up north and this is way overkill. But the only real answer is to learn to fecal.

I don't change the management here for anything that I read on the internet. Now when we have our next parasite meeting at club where a real parisitologist who tests goats, and not for drug companies, comes and talks to us about the new tests, the new information than yes I may look into changing something. Ask my vet? Hmmmm, she would like tell a new person to inject ivermectin, because it's what she learned at vet school. Vicki


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## caroline00 (Nov 10, 2002)

The goat breeders here say that the cattle pour on burns the goats throats if used everytime you worm.

What are your thoughts on that?


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## Sweet Goats (Nov 30, 2005)

caroline00 said:


> The goat breeders here say that the cattle pour on burns the goats throats if used everytime you worm.
> 
> What are your thoughts on that?


 Like I said, I have only used it once. Most the dewormers I use the goats fight me, but this one I thought she was going to go crazy because to me it smelled like keroseen, but she sucked it out.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Same as Lori, Cydectin is the first wormer I have every used that the goats do not hate, some love it, and yes the carrier is strong. I am only worming about 3 times of year, so knowing if it is burning their throat or not isn't even a consideration. And really, how would a goat tell you it has burned their throat? Having Nubians, if it hurt their throat it may make them less vocal...hmm simply yet another benefit of Cydectin  vicki


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

caroline00 said:


> The goat breeders here say that the cattle pour on burns the goats throats if used everytime you worm.
> 
> What are your thoughts on that?


Can't see how that would be since many of them will literally suck it out of the drenching syringe. Cydectin junkies!


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## DocM (Oct 18, 2006)

My ADHD is bad today. 

I need to start rotating wormers, not because my goats are resistent, but apparently everyone else's around here are (according to local goat friends). 

I currently use Ivomec cattle injectable orally.

The dosage for Cydectin cattle pour on is orally 1cc per 25 lbs? Yes? Is that what I'm reading? 

Please correct me if that's not it. Make it a SHORT message, all these novels posted today are wrecking havoc on me!


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## Patty0315 (Feb 1, 2004)

The thought is not to switch to a new wormer unless the old one is not working. If Ivermectin works for you do not switch. Once you go to cydectin there is nothing else to go to yet.


Patty


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## KayJay (Oct 3, 2006)

Errr, I was really hoping that if I wormed them before I moved with a two part dosing once about 12 days before I leave and then again a couple days before I leave with something that is supposed to be very effective, that maybe that would help me have a better chance to be rid of at least most of the parasites from here... Am I way off on this? It'd be nice if no one feels the need to point out how ignorant I apparently am, I can only go on the info I've been given (by vets and local goat people) or read online.


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

"but you do sound a bit sarcastic and defensive."

Not in the least of either. and yes some vets here in Texas have seen a few goats. My vet is older than me, has seen literally thousands of goats, maybe hundreds of thousands (yup, Texas has a lot of goats).

He will tell you in an instant that the only way to see what is there, and see what is working is to do Fecals. He hated to teach me, but he did even though it costs him money.


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## Jillis (Sep 11, 2005)

KayJay, sounds like you're doing a great job! You are doing exactly what I did as a newbie (I am still very much a newbie, I'm now just a well-informed newbie!). And what I still do now! I get as much information as I can from a variety of sources, weed out the sources that are less trust-worthy, sift and compare what is left---and then---_see what works for me and my goats!_ And then, I don't camp there, I remain open for more and perhaps better information that might come my way. 

Yucca, okey dokey!


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

"Yucca, okey dokey! "

Thanks for understanding. I consider it much the same as my mini-pickup. All my friends say that 10W-30 oil is fine. Manual (and warranty) says only to use 5W-30 oil. Whom do I believe?? Well since the cost is essentially the same I will go with the manual. In many cases I trust the manufacturers knowledge and testing to figure out which product performs best in which circumstance. They have the ultimate product liability and in this case would not have wasted the additional funds and time getting a product certified and tested if it wasn't better.

As for the rumen, I would dispute what environment a healthy rumen actually is. The rumen is basically a large bacterial fermentation tank. Bacteria won't flourish and divide in a "basically dry environment". Sorry it just doesn't happen. Even molds which do function in a more or less dry environment need a significant amount of moisture to flourish. There may be a lot of dry matter put into the rumen, but there is significant moisture there too


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## caroline00 (Nov 10, 2002)

Kay
where are you leaving?

we raised goats for 15 years in the Taft/Bakersfield area. So did my sis...she still lives there but doesnt have goats anymore.


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## Suemo (Sep 19, 2002)

I've butchered sheep that had obviously been drenched with Cydectin a few days earlier... The lining of their stomach was purple! I would think that proves that Cydectin pour-on doesn't ball up in the gut, is spreads and breaks down.
Bess


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## Patty0315 (Feb 1, 2004)

Also the carrier is made to stand up to rain not stomach acids !


Patty


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

basically dry environment".
.....................

Actually quite dry...is what I said. There is a rumen cow at Texas A&M that they have a clear plug in, they can unscrew this and you can watch the rumen churning the grass/alfalfa hay over and over just like a front loading washing machine. If it was liquid, like most would think our stomach contents are, it would flood out. It is actaully quite dry. Saliva is added to the cud of course. They give you transplants of this when your ruminants have surgery. It's alot like moist lawn clippings, not the soaking wet swamp you would think. Vicki


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## KayJay (Oct 3, 2006)

caroline00 said:


> Kay
> where are you leaving?
> 
> we raised goats for 15 years in the Taft/Bakersfield area. So did my sis...she still lives there but doesnt have goats anymore.


Caroline, I'm in Merced County (home of the 2nd worse air pollution in the country, go Merced County!), and about 2 1/2 to 3 hrs from Bakersfield.


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## Jillis (Sep 11, 2005)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians said:


> basically dry environment".
> .....................
> 
> Actually quite dry...is what I said. There is a rumen cow at Texas A&M that they have a clear plug in, they can unscrew this and you can watch the rumen churning the grass/alfalfa hay over and over just like a front loading washing machine. If it was liquid, like most would think our stomach contents are, it would flood out. It is actaully quite dry. Saliva is added to the cud of course. They give you transplants of this when your ruminants have surgery. It's alot like moist lawn clippings, not the soaking wet swamp you would think. Vicki


That certainly gives a better idea of why grain and especially cracked corn isn't the best food for a goat's digestive system.


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