# Shooting at an Oregon College; 10 dead 20 wounded



## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

http://fox59.com/2015/10/01/active-shooter-reported-at-oregon-college-campus/

I'm not watching TV, so maybe this has been updated. Looks like the shooter is still active, or at least at large? Stay safe Oregonites, if you're near Umpqua Community College.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Last I heard they had secured the threat.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Couple things I picked up on reddit. Sounds like the police engaged the shooter and had him down within 5 minutes. 

https://clyp.it/kq454nvx


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

They haven't said it officially yet, but the shooter is dead. 

The number of deceased victims is all but certain to go higher, based on the reports of ambulances leaving the scene without lights/sirens.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wiscto said:


> Couple things I picked up on reddit. Sounds like the police engaged the shooter and had him down within 5 minutes.
> 
> https://clyp.it/kq454nvx



A Good Job to the police !


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

Confirmed; the shooter is dead. 13 victims dead confirmed also.


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## kuriakos (Oct 7, 2005)

Have a little respect for the dead. No need for politicizing it with a stupid joke before their families are even notified. And don't come back with "the liberals politicized it first!" I'm sure some have, and they disgust me just as much.

ETA: This post referred to the deleted one above.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Wonder who did it? The media will assume it is a bitter clinger, as always. Could have been, but it may also have been one of Obama's sons, an Islamic freedom fighter, a teed off spouse, Joe Biden giving a self defense course, or just another mentally ill wacko. From what I've seen, they seem to be mostly focusing on an AK-47 for now. Wonder what made it rise up and kill people?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It's incredibly sad when these things happen and I hope the families get answers soon.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I have a daughter in college the next state over. Heart is breaking for the victims and their families. Wish I could hug my baby right now.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

This was posted by someone on reddit, so take it for what it is right now...unconfirmed source. But this was supposedly a dialogue which took place on the site 4Chan. For those who don't know. 4Chan is a forum where peoples names are all "Anonymous". They're known for dark humor, total BS, pranks, hacking, and in general it's hard to say who is just making something up, who's just going along, and who actually means what they say. It's a site to stay away from, overall, unless you really want to be offended. But they pop up on reddit.com once in a while because of the waves they make. Anyway...

http://i.imgur.com/F90JrJW.jpg


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

poppy said:


> Wonder who did it? The media will assume it is a bitter clinger, as always. Could have been, but it may also have been one of Obama's sons, an Islamic freedom fighter, a teed off spouse, Joe Biden giving a self defense course, or just another mentally ill wacko. From what I've seen, they seem to be mostly focusing on an AK-47 for now. Wonder what made it rise up and kill people?


It could be any one of a number of things but I can't see the point in making wild and derogatory speculations until there is further information.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

I always wonder how a person could be so messed up to do something like this. Probably some panicked families still trying to find out if their loved one is OK or a victim. It will be even sadder when they identify the victims and tell a bit about them, makes it even more personal and tragic to learn what was lost.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

wr said:


> It could be any one of a number of things but I can't see the point in making wild and derogatory speculations until there is further information.


Well, the news does it all the time and my post was to show how silly it is. I get so tired of the talking heads on tv trying to look like they are on top of a story when the final outcome is always different than what they reported. I suppose it is because they want to scoop the other media outlets but the result is lousy reporting.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

This is so sad for the victims and families. My heart goes out to them.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

poppy said:


> Well, the news does it all the time and my post was to show how silly it is. I get so tired of the talking heads on tv trying to look like they are on top of a story when the final outcome is always different than what they reported. I suppose it is because they want to scoop the other media outlets but the result is lousy reporting.


Actually, I would agree with you on that. I don't have television and media saturation is one of my primary reasons. 

I actually know a couple people who were so caught up in 9/11 news that they actually suffered breakdowns.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Shooting at Oregon community college campus...

GUNMAN ORDERED VICTIMS TO STATE RELIGION...

POLICE: 13 dead...

Shooter down...

REPORT: 'Gun-free campus'...

A horrible day in Oregon. 45th school shooting in 2015.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

wr said:


> It could be any one of a number of things but I can't see the point in making wild and derogatory speculations until there is further information.


Actually already addressed in later post.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I wouldn't put much faith in any reports you hear for the first 24-48 hours.
It takes time to sort out reality from the fantasy


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

The death toll could rise because of the injured in the hospital. 2 had to be airlifted and there was only one helicopter. They had to wait until it took the first patient and came back.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

The Oregon Atty General said that a warning was put out on the internet yesterday. He did not say what site. It was a warning that if you lived in NW Oregon you might not want to go to school today.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

wiscto said:


> This was posted by someone on reddit, so take it for what it is right now...unconfirmed source. But this was supposedly a dialogue which took place on the site 4Chan. For those who don't know. 4Chan is a forum where peoples names are all "Anonymous". They're known for dark humor, total BS, pranks, hacking, and in general it's hard to say who is just making something up, who's just going along, and who actually means what they say. It's a site to stay away from, overall, unless you really want to be offended. But they pop up on reddit.com once in a while because of the waves they make. Anyway...
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/F90JrJW.jpg


Knowing what I do about 4chan and Anonymous, I find it a pretty interesting read. That "movement", if you want to call it that, isn't quite as grass-roots, punk kids rebelling against the system as it's meant to seem.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Scary stuff right there.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

That link is creepy.
Other people actually encouraging him?


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-Umpqua-Community-College-in-Oregon-live.html


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Asking their religion is pretty damning.


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## RichNC (Aug 22, 2014)

Woolieface said:


> Knowing what I do about 4chan and Anonymous, I find it a pretty interesting read. That "movement", if you want to call it that, isn't quite as grass-roots, punk kids rebelling against the system as it's meant to seem.


Considering anyone can make the user name Anonymous, I am not sure why are comparing this to the actual "Anonymous"?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Ok, there's another thread about this topic, and I said "social media kings/queens".

What is going on?
Why is being a 'social media sensation' SO important?
What's missing?

Is social media the means evil does it's deeds now?
What is going on?
What is happening to us?


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Asking their religion is pretty damning.


Killing innocent people is pretty damning. Asking their religion is just the insanity in his own head.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I am wondering why the police are not ID'ing this guy now since he is dead.
No clues in this case except what the girl said about him making them tell their religion.

If there had been a concealed weapon in that college safe or a couple of security guards maybe it would have helped someone to subdue him. We'll never know.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

MO_cows said:


> I always wonder how a person could be so messed up to do something like this. Probably some panicked families still trying to find out if their loved one is OK or a victim. It will be even sadder when they identify the victims and tell a bit about them, makes it even more personal and tragic to learn what was lost.


I agree with what you said here, but. I will say, it frustrates me when the media and politicians encourage everyone to place these shootings in the context of "we have to stop these crazy people who can't be responsible for their decisions from getting weapons."

That's a huge oet peeve of mine.

If these mass shooter's had no mental ability to make decisions or be reasoned with, they would not CHOOSE to carry the shootings out at venues that are known or highly likely to be GUN FREE ZONES.

Just my thoughts. Not an attack or criticism of anyone here. Just venting my frustration after hearing about these families who have lost people today.

Praying for them. Hope no one here has anyone affected.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

wr said:


> Actually, I would agree with you on that. I don't have television and media saturation is one of my primary reasons.
> 
> I actually know a couple people who were so caught up in 9/11 news that they actually suffered breakdowns.


It's terrible reporting. I was in my truck and heard it on the radio and they said 5 dead. I checked other stations and got numbers from 5 clear up through 20 dead and several different numbers on injuries. I wish they would just mention a shooting and quit using details from obviously unreliable sources until the facts come in. I also heard AK-47 mentioned on 3 or 4 channels. If they are wrong on the number killed, why should I think they are accurate on the gun used? It makes your head spin.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

RichNC said:


> Considering anyone can make the user name Anonymous, I am not sure why are comparing this to the actual "Anonymous"?


It's not a comparison... the group "Anonymous" was born on 4chan. The name came from the fact that All user names on 4chan are "anonymous".


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

gapeach said:


> If there had been a concealed weapon in that college safe or a couple of security guards maybe it would have helped someone to subdue him. We'll never know.


In fact, I heard an interview with someone today who admitted he was carrying concealed on the campus today in violation of the gun-free zone and was in the vicinity of the shootings. Made no difference whatsoever. So I guess we kind of *do* know.

I don't think most people appreciate how fast these incidents unfold. The majority of these people appear to have been shot within a minute or less.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

gapeach said:


> The Oregon Atty General said that a warning was put out on the internet yesterday. He did not say what site. It was a warning that if you lived in NW Oregon you might not want to go to school today.


If true, it shows this was likely not a guy who just flipped out. It was a planned attack and asking their religions would seem to indicate a radical Islam connection because they often do that to spare fellow Muslims. I'm sure they know a lot about the guy by now but aren't saying because they are looking into his associates or accomplices. Hopefully we'll get the truth. Usually they are quick to say there is no terrorism connection, but not this time.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Cornhusker said:


> That link is creepy.
> Other people actually encouraging him?


Yeah, it's creepy stuff. The popular notion is that Anonymous grew out of 4chan, a forum where all posters are anonymous, as an uprising of youth against the corruption of government systems/tyranny, etc. As with anything else that organizes under that goal and has a name, it becomes absorbed into the psy-ops community and actually becomes a staging ground for false flags under a controlled opposition.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Cornhusker said:


> That link is creepy.
> Other people actually encouraging him?


So far it's legit that this was him posting on 4Chan. I think some of those people were probably genuinely encouraging him. Some were probably making fun of him by speaking facetiously. Some of them were justifiably mad. 

I looked up this "beta uprising" crap, and it's pretty creepy indeed. Basically, the weak links of society have decided that the "sexual revolution" is a bad thing, because only the "alpha males" get the girls, multiple girls actually, while the "beta males" get nothing. 

And now apparently they've decided to prove to everyone why they are completely undesirable by being angry at the world and crying about it on the internet. Except for this guy, who apparently decided that if he doesn't get to procreate, nobody does.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Raeven said:


> In fact, I heard an interview with someone today who admitted he was carrying concealed on the campus today in violation of the gun-free zone and was in the vicinity of the shootings. Made no difference whatsoever. So I guess we kind of *do* know.
> 
> I don't think most people appreciate how fast these incidents unfold. The majority of these people appear to have been shot within a minute or less.


In one of many news feeds after an incident in Canada, a psychologist responded to questions as to why somebody didn't do something to stop the killing in a particular situation. 

Their response was that people don't realize how quickly it does unfold and young people are particularly vulnerable because they are literally so stunned and horrified by the carnage around them that they are essentially incapable of reacting


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Geez Louise. I just spoke to my dad and that's where my cousin's kid is going to school and nobody has made contact with her. 

Keep your fingers crossed that she's doing what she does best, skipping class in favor of social activities.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Raeven said:


> In fact, I heard an interview with someone today who admitted he was carrying concealed on the campus today in violation of the gun-free zone and was in the vicinity of the shootings. Made no difference whatsoever. So I guess we kind of *do* know.
> 
> I don't think most people appreciate how fast these incidents unfold. The majority of these people appear to have been shot within a minute or less.


Being in the vicinity does not equal being close enough to shoot. I live in the vicinity of a fire house but it is 1/2 mile away. Then the thought that he was not allowed to be carrying had to run through his mind. He had to wonder if he would get in trouble if he drew his gun.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

wr said:


> Geez Louise. I just spoke to my dad and that's where my cousin's kid is going to school and nobody has made contact with her.
> 
> Keep your fingers crossed that she's doing what she does best, skipping class in favor of social activities.



I hope she's okay and the odds are in her favor. Must have your cousin worried to death.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

RichNC said:


> Considering anyone can make the user name Anonymous, I am not sure why are comparing this to the actual "Anonymous"?


That's the typical reaction after these events.

Everyone repeats every wild rumor they hear, and almost instantly it becomes impossible to tell fact from fiction. 

People have no self control

I try not to listen to much of it for a couple of days to give it time to sort itself out


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

poppy said:


> I hope she's okay and the odds are in her favor. Must have your cousin worried to death.


Thanks, it's probably one of those times when I'm happy she's a marginal student with iffy attendance.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*Mass shooting on Roseburg college campus, possible hate crime, draws heavy interest from feds*

By Bryan Denson | The Oregonian/OregonLive 
October 01, 2015 

Federal authorities descended on Roseburg as social media rumors spread of a hate-based motive behind Thursday's mass shooting at Umpqua Community College.

Oregon's top federal prosecutor said he and other government officials have heard the same rumors that the public has about the shooter issuing "some sort of race-related manifesto" before the crime. By late afternoon, there were 10 confirmed deaths.

Billy J. Williams, the acting U.S. Attorney for Oregon, told The Oregonian/OregonLive that the Douglas County Sheriff's Office is the lead investigative agency in the shooting and as far as he knew, that had not changed.


Oregon school shooting: Emergency responder audio, abbreviated
This is a truncated version of a 30-minute audio recording of Roseburg police scanner traffic posted to audio site Clyp.it Thursday by an anonymous user.
An 18-year-old student at the school, Kortney Moore, told a Roseburg newspaper that the shooter asked students to state their religion before opening fire. Moore was sitting in her writing class when a bullet blasted through the window and she saw her teacher shot in the head, the News Review reported
read more...
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...ting_on_roseburg_coll.html#incart_maj-story-1

There was a student from the college on the phone tonight with Bill O'Reilly. He was an ex-soldier going to college there now. He said that he had a concealed gun today at school today. He has a permit for it and he said that the school knows that he has it.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

wr said:


> Geez Louise. I just spoke to my dad and that's where my cousin's kid is going to school and nobody has made contact with her.
> 
> Keep your fingers crossed that she's doing what she does best, skipping class in favor of social activities.


Prayed for your family. I hope she is well and pray she is able to feel the comfort of those around her even if it not family at this moment. Praying y'all find peace. I pray she has also not lost any close friends.

Young college students have so many adult things they must learn to handle as they experience for the first time. Tragedy is never something that is easy or expected for our youngest adults.

Please let us know when you have news. Be well.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Chris Harper Mercer - the gunman

He has IRA pictures on his My Space page.

He is holding a rifle here. His Facebook page had a lot of guns on it. He had all kinds of guns, the police says.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's the typical reaction after these events.
> 
> Everyone repeats every wild rumor they hear, and almost instantly it becomes impossible to tell fact from fiction.
> 
> ...


That's an interesting post. It seems you do tune in on some level. I've read frequently on threads about breaking news where you make similar statements that encourage readers to discount virtually all posts by others referring to information. Many times because you state its not worth following at all until your time limit has passed.

Why then be involved in any discussion of its reporting until its an appropriate time? I honestly don't get the logic there... If it's all bunk for two days, why not ignore the thread the way it seems you're encouraging others to do? 

Maybe I'm interpreting your meaning in a way you didn't intend though. I don't know.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

https://myspace.com/344765151/mixes/profilemix-115341/photo/6808645



I am one of those people who want to know ASAP.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

gibbsgirl said:


> Prayed for your family. I hope she is well and pray she is able to feel the comfort of those around her even if it not family at this moment. Praying y'all find peace. I pray she has also not lost any close friends.
> 
> Young college students have so many adult things they must learn to handle as they experience for the first time. Tragedy is never something that is easy or expected for our youngest adults.
> 
> Please let us know when you have news. Be well.


Thanks very much for the kind thoughts. We still have no word and I kinda feel pretty crappy sitting here hoping that hers isn't on a list of victims because regardless who they are, the victims were loved by their families and didn't deserve this.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

wr said:


> Thanks very much for the kind thoughts. We still have no word and I kinda feel pretty crappy sitting here hoping that hers isn't on a list of victims because regardless who they are, the victims were loved by their families and didn't deserve this.


I'm glad you let us know. Holding things like this in can really take its toll. I hope y'all remember to tell who you need to in real life too. I really think it's better to let people know when you have something going on, so they know you might not have " your head in the game" so to speak.

In your situation, I would be shocked if anyone would not be very receptive to helping work around letting you take it a bit easy, or letting you take over just some tasks that would keep you busy if you needed that.

Anyhoo, I'm praying you get good news just as soon as possible.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

gapeach said:


> https://myspace.com/344765151/mixes/profilemix-115341/photo/6808645
> 
> 
> 
> I am one of those people who want to know ASAP.


I think it's human nature to want immediate answers but I have found that initial reports are not always accurate and I've read that some media actually misidentified the gunman and the family person wrongly identified was treated pretty harshly. 

It's also helpful to remember that beyond the victims who'll be disclosed in the next day or so, the gunman's family is also a victim and their lives have also been shattered.


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

Odd but I am kind of surprised he had a myspace account. I couldn't recall the last time I heard someone using that site.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

gapeach said:


> View attachment 50392
> 
> 
> Chris Harper Mercer - the gunman
> ...


Ruger 10/22?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gapeach said:


> View attachment 50392
> 
> 
> Chris Harper Mercer - the gunman
> ...


I could leap on this and make some serious hay but guess what? I won't. Because people died today and families are struggling to sort through the horrific pain of this tragedy and we have at least one member here worried about a family member. 

I am with BFF on this one I won't be listening to this story until they have some definitive answers.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> I could leap on this and make some serious hay but guess what? I won't. Because people died today and families are struggling to sort through the horrific pain of this tragedy and we have at least one member here worried about a family member.
> 
> I am with BFF on this one I won't be listening to this story until they have some definitive answers.


I think it's human nature to look for answers and while I suspect they won't be found via social media, I kinda understand why people look. 

Perhaps in some ways, people look to see if they can find signs of hate, mental illness or what makes someone so horribly damaged that they could do such a thing. 

Sadly, it's what we can't see that's the problem.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

On the other hand, the first reports will be before the story has been ironed out neat and tidy for all media outlets to report the same details. Quite a bit can be learned in those first hours before the details that don't mesh get lost forever. Or, I guess, we can go on believing everything we hear in official media reports....


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Thanks for the good thoughts. My niece showed up a short while ago and while she's a bit short on details, she's fine but there's a lot of families who aren't nearly as fortunate.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

wr said:


> Thanks for the good thoughts. My niece showed up a short while ago and while she's a bit short on details, she's fine but there's a lot of families who aren't nearly as fortunate.


Praise God. Thank you for letting us know. Y'all are very blessed. Sounds like there are many families who will not be feeling such a sense of relief. Very happy for the ones who are connecting with loved ones. But, very sad for those who are suffering. Truly must be a day that's been filled with dread and desperation for so many.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gibbsgirl said:


> That's an interesting post. It seems you do tune in on some level. I've read frequently on threads about breaking news where you make similar statements that encourage readers to discount virtually all posts by others referring to information. Many times because you state its not worth following at all until your time limit has passed.
> 
> Why then be involved in any discussion of its reporting until its an appropriate time? I honestly don't get the logic there... If it's all bunk for two days, *why not ignore the thread the way it seems you're encouraging others to do?*
> 
> Maybe I'm interpreting your meaning in a way you didn't intend though. I don't know.


I didn't say "ignore the thread" or the incident

I mean don't put too much faith in the reported "facts", and don't be so quick to pass on stories that haven't been confirmed. Just have some patience.

I read the threads more to see the reactions than to learn about what really happened. 

You don't have to "ignore" any of it, but it's best not to TRUST any of it as factual until some time has passed. 

They'll have it mostly sorted out before the weekend is over


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

wr said:


> I think it's human nature to want immediate answers but I have found that initial reports are not always accurate and I've read that some media actually *misidentified the gunman* and the family person wrongly identified was treated pretty harshly.
> 
> It's also helpful to remember that beyond the victims who'll be disclosed in the next day or so, the gunman's family is also a victim and their lives have also been shattered.


(First, I'm glad to hear your cousin's daughter turned up)

That happened at Newtown, CT.

They named Adam Lanza's brother as the shooter, even though he was in different state. 

It happened again with "Dylann" Roof and another "Dylan" Roof.

There are no immediate answers to explain irrational acts and it's been less than 24 hours since it happened.

The one thing we know for certain is the incident ended *within minutes *of the arrival of enough good guys with guns.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Today, the news spends about 20 seconds giving information about the shooting, then about 4 min on the President, Congress, and statisitcs about gun control.

20 seconds reporting information.
4 minutes politicizing. 

I would like to know:

1. IS there a pattern of 'social media' postings prior to the event (looking at the last 30 -40 mass shootings)

2. IS there a pattern of illicit drug use or prescription drugs?

3. WHAT is a consistent thread in all these shooters AND WHAT 'signs' could we see in advance to potentially stop then next incident.

YOU can make all gun illegal today.
You could go door to door, and confiscate every gun (that would take, how many years?)

To disarm America would take DECADES.
To understand why people are choosing to mass shoot? 
You get experts to work together and build a profile......maybe months.

Millions and Millions of Americans, have guns.
The % of Americans who mass shoot? 
So small, barely noticeable, compared to the millions of Americans that do not.

This IS NOT a gun issue.
This is a human issue.
Let's solve this problem; we have the answers right in front of us!!!!


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I watched all of the police news conference last night at 10 o'clock. At that time the 26 yr old killer's picture had been released as well his name and the pictures of the search going on where he lived.
The police were the ones who said he had all of the guns and there was no doubt as to his identity. The FBI and the States Atty are doing the investigation as a possible hate crime.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Never did like the term "hate crime".

Aren't the shooter's actions heinous enough?


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I don't think the FBI and ATF would be there in such force if they did not have reason to suspect something else though. 

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes
Hate crimes add an element of bias to traditional crimesâand the mixture is toxic to our communities.
Crimes of hatred and prejudiceâfrom lynchings to cross burnings to vandalism of synagoguesâare a sad fact of American history, but the term âhate crimeâ did not enter the nationâs vocabulary until the 1980s, when emerging hate groups like the Skinheads launched a wave of bias-related crime. The FBI began investigating what we now call hate crimes as far back as World War I, when the Ku Klux Klan first attracted our attention. Today, we remain dedicated to working with state and local partners to prevent these crimes and to bring to justice those who commit them.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

So he made "christians' stand up, profess their faith, then he murdered them.

That, is a hate crime.

I am a Believer. I see this a pure, unfiltered evil.
His hate for God, and His people DIDN'T START YESTERDAY. 
His hate was not hidden......and we need to know where he shared it.
Who he shared it with.

This will give us some clues to look for to prevent the next shooting......


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

wr said:


> Geez Louise. I just spoke to my dad and that's where my cousin's kid is going to school and nobody has made contact with her.
> 
> Keep your fingers crossed that she's doing what she does best, skipping class in favor of social activities.


OMG, prayers & good thoughts. Been praying for ALL but its too close to home when you know someone who goes there. 
This was confined to one classroom, seems there's a significance there & at least those who know their family etc were elsewhere have hope.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Last night his My Space acct worked and you could mash the arrows and he had an array of pictures of him in various garbs and with guns. Large crest of the IRA.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I noticed this morning, when they interviewed his father, a very THICK accent.
*I* thought German, but it could be Irish too.......


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> I noticed this morning, when they interviewed his father, a very THICK accent.
> *I* thought German, but it could be Irish too.......


Pretty sure it was Irish. IMHO


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

Bearfootfarm said:


> (First, I'm glad to hear your cousin's daughter turned up)
> 
> That happened at Newtown, CT.
> 
> ...



The reason they initially named Adam Lanza's brother as the shooter was because Adam had his brother's driver's license on him with which they used to identify the body.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Today, the news spends about 20 seconds giving information about the shooting, then about 4 min on the President, Congress, and statisitcs about gun control.
> 
> 20 seconds reporting information.
> 4 minutes politicizing.
> ...


That's all fine and good except for one thing. *Do you trust the government to be the one creating profile and doing the profiling?*​


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Declan said:


> The reason they initially named Adam Lanza's brother as the shooter was because Adam had his brother's driver's license on him with which they used to identify the body.


Yes, they reported false information because they didn't *verify* the identity before rushing to release it to the public.

The media now places more importance on being the first to report rather being the one to accurately report


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> 3. WHAT is a consistent thread in all these shooters AND WHAT 'signs' could we see in advance to potentially stop then next incident.


The consistent thread is - one person kills multiple people. Shooter is dead. There is online "stuff" he wrote. The story is shady from start to finish. Gun control propaganda, gun control propaganda, gun control propaganda. 

I don't know who else thinks this is too weird for real life but, there you have it....


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Yes, they reported false information because they didn't *verify* the identity before rushing to release it to the public.
> 
> The media now places more importance on being the first to report rather being the one to accurately report


It happens up here too and it's sad.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> I could leap on this and make some serious hay but guess what? I won't. Because people died today and families are struggling to sort through the horrific pain of this tragedy and we have at least one member here worried about a family member.
> 
> I am with BFF on this one I won't be listening to this story until they have some definitive answers.


Seems he was a hater of Christains. Was that what you were leaping for, to make hay?


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Like I said in my post with the 4Chan forum conversation. Take it all for what it is. The people in 4Chan claimed he was part of the "beta uprising," but that could have been people making fun of him. Some of the students are claiming he was sorting people out by religion. I think he was probably just generally insane, and generally insane people have a hundred different reasons for a hundred different minutes of the day. He might have used a hundred justifications for his actions, but maybe decided on religion when he got there. For all we know he could have said something else to other students, and maybe we won't hear from them because they're dead. 

Most of these shootings are, bottom line, about power. To make a statement. To be heard. To stand out in an individualist society that makes them feel unremarkable and weak. He talked about that extensively in one of his facebook or myspace posts. To say this was 100% about anything else in particular is probably going to be a false perception. I think that's why people respond the way they do when everyone lines up and claims the political victimization of their particular category.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> That's all fine and good except for one thing.*Do you trust the government to be the one creating profile and doing the profiling?*​


I do not trust the government.
That's what I am saying.
We need professionals, trained educated professionals in the community to work together. 

I have faith that inside the BAC, the Profilers, the LEO's, etc, that there are human beings, that will NOT tow the 'govnt line/lie" but will speak out.



Woolieface said:


> The consistent thread is - one person kills multiple people. Shooter is dead. There is online "stuff" he wrote. The story is shady from start to finish. Gun control propaganda, gun control propaganda, gun control propaganda.
> 
> I don't know who else thinks this is too weird for real life but, there you have it....


Those are the obvious.

Look at it this way.
YOU have a dandelion problem.
You mow it, it comes back
You yank it out, it comes back.
You spray it w/ round up....and it takes a while, but it comes back.

BUT you get a spade, dig 3 feet in diameter around the week, dig 3 feet down, get to the tip of that root, and remove the WHOLE dandelion.
You have to get to the root of the problem if you want it to go away.

We humans have such a 'microwave' mentality.
WE WANT IT NOW.
We are lazy and want a quick fix w/ a pretty bow.

THAT is not real life.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> I do not trust the government.
> That's what I am saying.
> We need professionals, trained educated professionals in the community to work together.
> 
> ...


What I'm saying though is that these "events" are manipulations. They are designed crisis. I have more or less passed the point of caring too much what saying that out loud makes me look like. I just want the pattern to get recognized, even if it's by a very small minority.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Woolieface said:


> What I'm saying though is that these "events" are manipulations. They are designed crisis.


Please expand, I do not understand what you are saying, and I don't want to reply out of ignorance!




> I have more or less passed the point of caring too much what saying that out loud makes me look like. I just want the pattern to get recognized, even if it's by a very small minority.


I want the pattern to be recognized too.

It's gonna take work.
It starts in the womb.
What was mom eating, drinking, drugs taken?
Where did mom live, what toxins in the enviroment was she exposed too?
What was her emotional and mental life like while pregnant?

What kind of delivery? Were there complications?
Full term? Preemie, Vag, C?
Did she nurse? If yes, see the above paragraph

What was his life like 1day to age 6?
And on and on and on......

The root. We have to get to the root.......


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Please expand, I do not understand what you are saying, and I don't want to reply out of ignorance!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, not just at the risk, but the Assurance of being seen as a nut (lol), try for a moment to think way outside the box...

The psy-ops against the American people Far exceed what even the majority of open minded citizens would attribute to their government. This has been an ongoing truth for decades now. The picture we get of reality brought to us through the television screen, etc is almost as real as Disneyland.

When there is an agenda to be pushed by TPTB, they know that the populace respond to fear and trauma. That works on a mass scale in the same way as it did on an individual scale on unwilling victims of programs like MKULTRA. Traumatize the mind so absolutely that it seeks an escape or safety at all costs. The method of escape (an altered state of mind) allows the handler control over the subjects. The subjects have very little ability to question what is fed them after that point.

We see this scenario again and again and again with the mass killing incidents. We will see it again in the future. Give this thing long enough to have simmered down to a dull ache in the minds of the American people and it's time for another one. People write that pattern off any way they can because their minds are in a traumatized, altered state.

These events are manufactured by the control agenda and come straight from government HQ. Sometimes they are entirely fabricated, sometimes they are perpetrated by trained patsies. Listen to the words coming out of Obama's mouth....pay close attention to the first words he said, in fact. Yes, it's about control, and as long as we respond to these events with the emotional roller-coaster reaction that it is intended to incite, we will not think critically about how absurd these events would otherwise look to a rational mind when lined up on a list.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Woolieface, I cannot disagree.
Tinfoil isn't just for cookin' in my house; it's an accessory for my head!


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

I'm with Woolie.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I got to say if you can train a dog with a treat you can train a human with the RIGHT treats.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

TripleD said:


> I got to say if you can train a dog with a treat you can train a human with the RIGHT treats.


You can train them with the "right" punishments too.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Woolieface said:


> The consistent thread is - one person kills multiple people. Shooter is dead. There is online "stuff" he wrote. The story is shady from start to finish. Gun control propaganda, gun control propaganda, gun control propaganda.
> 
> I don't know who else thinks this is too weird for real life but, there you have it....


This is the angle that kills me. It somehow makes far more sense to you that what, this was a false flag? All faked? Students really killed by a government operative or someone brainwashed into it by the CIA? That makes more sense....... 

Real life is this: like all of the other recent shooters this guy had no life. He wasn't going anywhere. He had no hope, no plans, nothing on the horizon. So he looked around and he said I might as well just go out and if I am going to go out I am going to do it with a massive bang. It's the same reason Dylann Roof shot all those church goers, the reason Vester Flannagan shot those news people, it's the reason Abdulazeez shot the people at the Naval Station in Chattanooga. 

Every single case has one thing in common: a disgruntled man whose life has become hopeless and untenable and they decide to go out in a blaze of glory. So if you want to fix the problem you need to start with why do we have so many young men in this country with no hope? No jobs? No family, no friends, no purpose in life? Not one thing they can think of for their future other than death and shaking up the world on their way out.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> This is the angle that kills me. It somehow makes far more sense to you that what, this was a false flag? All faked? Students really killed by a government operative or someone brainwashed into it by the CIA? That makes more sense.......
> 
> Real life is this: like all of the other recent shooters this guy had no life. He wasn't going anywhere. He had no hope, no plans, nothing on the horizon. So he looked around and he said I might as well just go out and if I am going to go out I am going to do it with a massive bang. It's the same reason Dylann Roof shot all those church goers, the reason Vester Flannagan shot those news people, it's the reason Abdulazeez shot the people at the Naval Station in Chattanooga.
> 
> Every single case has one thing in common: a disgruntled man whose life has become hopeless and untenable and they decide to go out in a blaze of glory. So if you want to fix the problem you need to start with why do we have so many young men in this country with no hope? No jobs? No family, no friends, no purpose in life? Not one thing they can think of for their future other than death and shaking up the world on their way out.


It sounds like you know what type individual to use as the perfect test subject?


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Patchouli said:


> This is the angle that kills me. It somehow makes far more sense to you that what, this was a false flag? All faked? Students really killed by a government operative or someone brainwashed into it by the CIA? That makes more sense.......


Define what doesn't "make sense" in this.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Woolieface said:


> Define what doesn't "make sense" in this.


If this truly makes sense to you then nothing I can say would impact your thinking. Cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing. 

The time involved, the actors needed, the utter impossibility of pulling something off of that magnitude in this day and age are all good reasons why a false flag perpetrated by any of those methods is impossible. 

But I'll throw a question at you: let's say you are right and all of those were faked or manipulated by the government for the ultimate purpose of disarming the populace. Why hasn't it happened? No new gun laws have been passed. Guns sales and ammo sales have been through the roof ever since 2008 and yet not one law at the federal level has been passed to rein in guns. Why? 

Or do you think there is some other purpose?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Someone help me: Did the "cia" do 'human testing' with LSD?
Didn't some of those 'test subjects' do some messed up / criminal things?

I am almost sure I saw a documentary or read something to this extent........

I know a Chemist, that told me and my children DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT EVER sign up for 'experimental drugs, scans, etc'. EVER.
The Chemist would not elaborate, but was PASSIONATE.

This person is not some wacko loose screw person.
Very educated, very logical, well balanced.....

This and 1 other topic are the only 2 times I have seen this individual become animated, and passionate (to the point of raising their voice)

Let me add and say: I DO NOT think this was 'staged' and the people we see on TV are actors.
Humans, are humans, and they talk.
They can't help themselves......There is NO WAY you could pull off this big of a lie w/ so many involved.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Woolieface said:


> Define what doesn't "make sense" in this.


 You know how incompetent most government is, why would you think they could get away with mass murdering Americans every few months, for some far-off agenda, without someone slipping up or saying too much? 
No, the far more likely truth is the simplest one, that in a nation awash with guns, nutcases find it very easy to get ahold of them and cause mass mayhem and destruction. But it could have just as easily been a knife, or a baseball bat, or fists. In that case we'd only be looking at a few casualties, and this wouldn't have been national news. 
So I don't blame 'guns', or the government, or CIA mind control, I blame the perpetrators.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Patchouli said:


> If this truly makes sense to you then nothing I can say would impact your thinking. Cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing.
> 
> The time involved, the actors needed, the utter impossibility of pulling something off of that magnitude in this day and age are all good reasons why a false flag perpetrated by any of those methods is impossible.
> 
> ...


I really want to know what doesn't make sense to you about it. In the ability to define it, you're able to look at it critically. I also simply want to know from someone of your perspective because I don't think the same way and I honestly don't know what thought process goes on behind "this doesn't make sense."

The intelligence community specializes in keeping secrets from whole nations. What makes this country's populace immune or makes such a feat impossible for those who are employed to do just that?

Yes there's more to it than Just guns, there are multiple control factors at play. Some of them have to do with profiling sectors of the population.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Someone help me: Did the "cia" do 'human testing' with LSD?
> Didn't some of those 'test subjects' do some messed up / criminal things?
> 
> I am almost sure I saw a documentary or read something to this extent........
> ...


Yes, the CIA did testing on human subjects with LSD as well as multiple other methods of inducing altered, traumatized states for the purpose of controlling behavior as well as partitioning the memory of that behavior behind amnesia walls.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

greg273 said:


> You know how incompetent most government is, why would you think they could get away with mass murdering Americans every few months, for some far-off agenda, without someone slipping up or saying too much?
> No, the far more likely truth is the simplest one, that in a nation awash with guns, nutcases find it very easy to get ahold of them and cause mass mayhem and destruction. But it could have just as easily been a knife, or a baseball bat, or fists. In that case we'd only be looking at a few casualties, and this wouldn't have been national news.
> So I don't blame 'guns', or the government, or CIA mind control, I blame the perpetrators.


What passes for incompetence is strategic failure. If the government were incapable, then they would not have succeeded on such a scale multiple times....and they have.

Who do you think controls national news?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

With tinfoil properly adjusted:

My question is this?

WHAT is going on in government that we are all being "distracted" by this shooting?
What are they passing?
Who are they making deals with?
What liberties and rights am I being stripped of?
Who's getting money that shouldn't be?

Somehow, some way, we the people are getting screwed by the government because we are too busy being glued to the tv/internet over 'another' shooting........


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Someone help me: Did the "cia" do 'human testing' with LSD?
> Didn't some of those 'test subjects' do some messed up / criminal things?
> 
> I am almost sure I saw a documentary or read something to this extent........
> ...


I'm not really sure I'm following this. But I just wanted to say that there are a ton of reasons to never sign up for a experiments. But you really only need one.... "Experimental."


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Woolieface said:


> I really want to know what doesn't make sense to you about it. In the ability to define it, you're able to look at it critically. I also simply want to know from someone of your perspective because I don't think the same way and I honestly don't know what thought process goes on behind "this doesn't make sense."
> 
> The intelligence community specializes in keeping secrets from whole nations. What makes this country's populace immune or makes such a feat impossible for those who are employed to do just that?
> 
> Yes there's more to it than Just guns, there are multiple control factors at play. Some of them have to do with profiling sectors of the population.


Laura brought up a good point in that we know historically that the government absolutely has used American citizens in experiments without their knowledge or consent. In those cases there was always some purpose to it. Either increased medical knowledge or for future military use for the most part. So the first thing I would need to see to believe all these mass shooting are some sort of experiment or psy-ops action would be a solid rationale for it. Some benefit that would greatly outweigh the possibility of getting caught.

So far as false flags in general the theories I find the most irrational and genuinely offensive are the actor versions. Sandy Hook was a hot one for that, all the children and parents and teachers and first responders were 
actors. That is absurd on every possible level. And deeply offensive because those were real parents who lost real children who have had to field questions from sick people accusing them of faking the whole thing. 

But let's go with the easiest to believe. For whatever reason some shadowy government operative picks some disgruntled young man and pumps him up to go and kill people en mass. Again I have to ask why? Why would the government do that and why do they need to do that? And why do you need that angle to make the scenario believable to you? 

There are a ton of very unhappy, suicidal people out there today. Just look at the suicide rates. Why is it so shocking that a few of them decide to go out in a blaze of glory or hate or world shaking?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Lack of respect for life. Has nothing to do with having a gun ava. Its the sick thinking people accept and are demanded that people accept.
Hear about that crazy woman that got a phych. to help put drain cleaner in her eyes to blind her,because she identifyed with being blind.Not unlike some other things we've been hearing of lately.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

By Jeff Manning | *The Oregonian/OregonLive*
October 02, 2015 

Details about Chris Harper-Mercer, the 26-year-old responsible for the Umpqua Community College mass shooting, remain hazy. On Thursday evening, Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin refused to even name the shooter, saying he didn't want the man glorified.

The Oregonian/OregonLive confirmed the gunman's name. By evening, tabloids around the country and overseas painted him as a Nazi paraphernalia devotee and gun fanatic.

A Myspace page that appears to be linked to the gunman shows a man with a crewcut wearing spectacles and carrying a rifle. The page includes posts of Irish Republican Army propaganda.
Oregon School Shooting - Umpqua CollegePhoto from the Myspace page believed to be that of Chris Harper-Mercer, the slain gunman responsible for the Umpqua Community College shooting.Myspace 

Other apparent social media pages linked to him suggest an outdoors enthusiast and lover of horror movies and goth music.

Multiple media outlets reported that he appears to have uploaded a video about the Newtown shooting earlier this week. They also linked him to a blog post on Aug. 31, 2015, about a man, Vester Flanagan, who killed two TV news employees in Virginia. The post reads, in part, "On an interesting note, I have noticed that so many people like him are all alone and unknown, yet when they spill a little blood, the whole world knows who they are. A man who was known by no one, is now known by everyone. His face splashed across every screen, his name across the lips of every person on the planet, all in the course of one day. Seems the more people you kill, the more you're in the limelight."
more..........
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...cart_most-read_pacific-northwest-news_article

Oregon School Shooting: Neighbor Interview Neighbor said he saw the shooter hang out every night at the apartment complex swingset with the same two little kids. video.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> With tinfoil properly adjusted:
> 
> My question is this?
> 
> ...


The point of such events is to shape public opinion so that when liberties and rights are removed they are perceived as being for the good of the people. They don't need a majority agreement on this...just enough to create the illusion of one. 

Maybe we need militarized police at campuses? Maybe we need biometric id's for use at schools workplaces, etc.? Maybe we need more surveillance?

The answer to the question lies in what you already see getting ramped up in the Big Brother system...it just gets worse by incremental degrees.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Patchouli said:


> Laura brought up a good point in that we know historically that the government absolutely has used American citizens in experiments without their knowledge or consent. In those cases there was always some purpose to it. Either increased medical knowledge or for future military use for the most part. So the first thing I would need to see to believe all these mass shooting are some sort of experiment or psy-ops action would be a solid rationale for it. Some benefit that would greatly outweigh the possibility of getting caught.
> 
> So far as false flags in general the theories I find the most irrational and genuinely offensive are the actor versions. Sandy Hook was a hot one for that, all the children and parents and teachers and first responders were
> actors. That is absurd on every possible level. And deeply offensive because those were real parents who lost real children who have had to field questions from sick people accusing them of faking the whole thing.
> ...


Right, there is a good reason for it. The populace is so easily led that anyone with the technology, power, influence and wealth to create a system of control over them really has limitless possibilities. Of course you first have to believe that they want that level of control over people...badly...or the rest doesn't fall into place. If you question that they want that control, then I have to ask why? The reasons for past experiments did not come down to the betterment of Our society, they all contributed to the power grab.

When you talk about getting caught, who will do the catching? In a completely compartmentalized and controlled environment where every facet of the whole is working (with or without their knowledge) for the goal of those doing these things, there is no recourse. What do simple citizens like us do? Talk on message boards....sometimes desperately... hoping the people of this country will come around, but that has no effective power in catching anyone.

Finding the suggestion that Sandy Hook was a hoax offensive is exactly what I'm talking about with emotional triggers. We get the trigger, our emotions take over and tell us it's "offensive", because somewhere deep inside it makes us feel unsafe or unacceptable to feel otherwise, but there is nothing offensive about pointing out some glaring problems with that story, and there sure are a ton of them.

Why would the government do that? Because they can. The rabbit hole is deep and I've been to a few corners of it. Power is corrupting. Our nation is certainly not the only one that does this and the end goal would take a long time to explain, but it suffices to say that where mankind Can wield power over the powerless, they will.

I don't need to believe this for the goal of some other emotional agenda, I wouldn't choose to if it were a matter of what I'd rather. I'm not sure who would. The simple answer is, it is just the opposite... I let go of what "I'd rather" when I was confronted with the truth.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

I have yet to see a shred of proof that actually held up on any of these false flags. Since we come from fundamentally different viewpoints on government and why the people at the top do what they do I am not at all predisposed to believe any of the so called proof of dark government conspiracies. I can apply a common sense lens to what I see and any hint of a conspiracy vanishes. 

It's not about emotional when it comes to how these false flag believers hurt people who have lost loved ones in these tragedies. Yes it makes me deeply angry that any troll would go up to a parent who lost a child at Sandy Hook and get in their face and accuse them of being an actor and ruining America. But it makes me angry because it is wrong. And stupid. And a truly vile thing to do. If you want to sit on the internet and trade conspiracy theories good for you, we all need our hobbies. But if you take that into real life and attack innocent hurting people with it then that is just wrong.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Patchouli said:


> I have yet to see a shred of proof that actually held up on any of these false flags. Since we come from fundamentally different viewpoints on government and why the people at the top do what they do I am not at all predisposed to believe any of the so called proof of dark government conspiracies. I can apply a common sense lens to what I see and any hint of a conspiracy vanishes.
> 
> It's not about emotional when it comes to how these false flag believers hurt people who have lost loved ones in these tragedies. Yes it makes me deeply angry that any troll would go up to a parent who lost a child at Sandy Hook and get in their face and accuse them of being an actor and ruining America. But it makes me angry because it is wrong. And stupid. And a truly vile thing to do. If you want to sit on the internet and trade conspiracy theories good for you, we all need our hobbies. But if you take that into real life and attack innocent hurting people with it then that is just wrong.


You didn't find find Robbie Parker's burst of laughter and mustering of crocodile tears the least strange after his daughter was "killed"?

I was never predisposed to believe that the government wasn't all it was cracked up to be either. That's just where some undeniable things led me.

You have to understand that from the perspective of even "MAYBE this is not what they said it was", questioning these events are not offensive...but having that be the overwhelming response we get for questioning certainly does help choke it out of public discussion. That's a very useful reaction right there. If you can be so open minded as to not believe you absolutely Know for sure these things aren't what you've been told, then tell me, should people be silent because it's found to be offensive?

It's not wrong to question...it's Certainly not stupid. Perhaps you perceive me as wrong and stupid, but I'm not a midnight researcher of blogs wearing a tinfoil hat as you may believe. I've actually got a decently working brain and I care very much about right and wrong or I would keep my mouth shut.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I love the spin.

First hand, multiple witnesses said that he singled out Christians for murder.

Now the news says "he wasn't singling anyone out, he just hates everyone".

Such a sack of fertilizer.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> I love the spin.
> 
> First hand, multiple witnesses said that he singled out Christians for murder.
> 
> ...


1. All of the firsthand witnesses said that? How do you know?
2. Do you actually prefer the story line that he singled out Christians?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I prefer truth.
Ft. Hood was NOT WORK PLACE VIOLENCE.
Call it what it is.

Multiple people who were in the room, including a girl who was shot and played dead said he asked the religion and everyone who said "Christian" was murdered; the rest were non lethal wounds.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

After reading a lot today about the shooter, my guess is as good as anyone's that I have read here. He could have an identity problem. He is mixed racially. I have not seen his mother but his father's accent sounded Irish to me. Born in England and at some point moved to California. Mother/Father split up since he has step sister. Father stays in CA. Mother and son move to Oregon. He flunked out of the Army. He is on a dating site and according to the police, he did not have one person contact him. The police say that he was way out there on the internet with not so nice websites. He has left a letter. He premeditated this act of hate, terror and killed + wounded a lot of people. Many others will have emotional scars. 
He was a misfit.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Why.
WHY was this kid, a misfit?
Why.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Woolieface said:


> You didn't find find Robbie Parker's burst of laughter and mustering of crocodile tears the least strange after his daughter was "killed"?
> 
> I was never predisposed to believe that the government wasn't all it was cracked up to be either. That's just where some undeniable things led me.
> 
> ...



You know what? Who knows how any of us would react if we just heard our little kid we sent off well and happy to school that morning was gunned down by a lunatic? People have weird reactions. Just for example if you have ever been in healthcare you know people can do anything from scream and cry when they are in severe pain to laugh or have no reaction at all. We're all different. I can say that in the days after my father died I laughed quite a lot just to keep from crying. People would tell me funny stories about him. We tried to laugh instead of just being all glum because we knew that was what he would have wanted. 

You know what makes me sick? I just Googled Robbie Parker and most of the top page of hits were that he is an actor and the whole thing was faked. My lord people. I looked at a few of the pages. Utter nonsense. Look it's Emilie in a picture with Obama 2 days after the shooting! Um she had 2 younger sisters. Her middle sister is now old enough to have grown into her hand me down dress and looks a good bit like her. Hence the fact that there are 2 little blonde haired Parker girl's next to Obama instead of three. Again try Occam's Razor on these claims and they melt like butter.

You are right that there is nothing wrong with questioning and we all should be doing it. And I don't believe everything the government does is for our benefit. The difference between us is just what we believe the government's motivation is (in my opinion everyone in Washington is motivated mainly by ego and greed) and the conclusions we reach after looking at the evidence. You either go in looking for a conspiracy or just looking at the facts and seeing where they lead. Rarely do they lead to conspiracies. And never so far as I can see in recent history to false flags.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gapeach said:


> After reading a lot today about the shooter, my guess is as good as anyone's that I have read here. He could have an identity problem. He is mixed racially. I have not seen his mother but his father's accent sounded Irish to me. Born in England and at some point moved to California. Mother/Father split up since he has step sister. Father stays in CA. Mother and son move to Oregon. He flunked out of the Army. He is on a dating site and according to the police, he did not have one person contact him. The police say that he was way out there on the internet with not so nice websites. He has left a letter. He premeditated this act of hate, terror and killed + wounded a lot of people. Many others will have emotional scars.
> He was a misfit.



Sounds exactly like what I said earlier: 



Patchouli said:


> Real life is this: like all of the other recent shooters this guy had no life. He wasn't going anywhere. He had no hope, no plans, nothing on the horizon. So he looked around and he said I might as well just go out and if I am going to go out I am going to do it with a massive bang. It's the same reason Dylann Roof shot all those church goers, the reason Vester Flannagan shot those news people, it's the reason Abdulazeez shot the people at the Naval Station in Chattanooga.
> 
> Every single case has one thing in common: a disgruntled man whose life has become hopeless and untenable and they decide to go out in a blaze of glory. So if you want to fix the problem you need to start with why do we have so many young men in this country with no hope? No jobs? No family, no friends, no purpose in life? Not one thing they can think of for their future other than death and shaking up the world on their way out.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> I prefer truth.
> Ft. Hood was NOT WORK PLACE VIOLENCE.
> Call it what it is.
> 
> Multiple people who were in the room, including a girl who was shot and played dead said he asked the religion and everyone who said "Christian" was murdered; the rest were non lethal wounds.


I guess what I'm saying is that the media could be backing off that statement for several reasons. For one thing, the guy literally talked about how mass killers are talked about and known. Maybe they don't want to stir that pot until they know more and talk to more people. Can you honestly tell me that you have the timeline of that shooting down 100%. You know where everyone was, how many rooms he shot in... Delay the anger.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Why.
> WHY was this kid, a misfit?
> Why.


I don't know. That is why there are so many FBI agents in LA. They want to know about his life while they lived there. There is a lot about him on that Oregon live website and what they police are doing to get as much background on him as they can. If he is mentally handicapped then he never should have joined the Army. We just don't know what kind of home life that he has had.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> Sounds exactly like what I said earlier:


I am glad we can agree on something. Something new has come out that Chris Harper Mercer graduated from a learning center in CA for children with learning disabilites and Autism. As a teenager, maybe he did not have a lot of socialization with other kids his age. He has a stepsister but she said she has not seen him in over a year. The reality is though, that the parents whether they are apart or together really bear the responsibility of supervising their teenager. He is 26 now. If he is distant and aloof like his neighbors say he is, he just may have started following other mass murderer's profiles and the police say that his computer shows that. Well, when my youngest son was going to college and still living with us in his 20's, I would have never gone into his computer and can see why other parents would not either. Once kids are 21, then it was up to him unless he needed help and nobody helped him.

*Official: Oregon gunman left angry note glorifying mass killers - a manifesto*
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/10/02/oregon-college-shooting/73192562/


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Here. The media is talking about it. Top story on Yahoo. Not a conspiracy.

http://news.yahoo.com/oregon-college-gunmans-family-shocked-he-shared-095908046.html


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

wiscto said:


> 1. All of the firsthand witnesses said that? How do you know?
> 2. Do you actually prefer the story line that he singled out Christians?


The reports I saw said he asked if they were Christian. 
If they said yes, they were shot in the head, otherwise, they were shot in the legs.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

wiscto said:


> Here. The media is talking about it. Top story on Yahoo. Not a conspiracy.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/oregon-college-gunmans-family-shocked-he-shared-095908046.html


I have listened to recordings of the witnesses and read news articles about them too. They are completely honest, I think. The girl who laid on the floor, played dead, while dead bodies were around her. She saw her teacher shot in the head first. Then he made them tell if they were Christians. He shot them in the head if they were, he shot others in the arm or leg and one in the spine. She is in the hospital. I believe her.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

So we all agree it's not the guns fault?
Obama's fake tears and push for gun control is politics at it's worst?
Glad to see the Obama fans agreeing with us and not Obama


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> So we all agree it's not the guns fault?
> Obama's fake tears and push for gun control is politics at it's worst?
> Glad to see the Obama fans agreeing with us and not Obama


I think we agree it is not the gun's fault or at least none in my house harmed anyone today.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

wr said:


> I think we agree it is not the gun's fault or at least none in my house harmed anyone today.


None in my house even looked at anyone cross-eyed.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkbsXIWIPF8[/ame]


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> So we all agree it's not the guns fault?
> Obama's fake tears and push for gun control is politics at it's worst?
> Glad to see the Obama fans agreeing with us and not Obama


Way less people would be dead and wounded today if he had not had access to a pile of guns and ammo. Surely you can acknowledge that reality?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> Way less people would be dead and wounded today if he had not had access to a pile of guns and ammo. Surely you can acknowledge that reality?



But what are you prepared to give in return? 

Will it still be okay if you have to hand over some of your firearms for destruction, get a special permit do you can buy ammo and powder? 

Are you also okay with the idea your home can be searched on the premise you may have illegal firearms or they could simply be removed from you home in the event of a community disaster?


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Patchouli said:


> Way less people would be dead and wounded today if he had not had access to a pile of guns and ammo. Surely you can acknowledge that reality?


Way less people would be dead if there wasn't access to so many cigarettes, knives, hammers, cars, bats, motorcycles, gasoline, drugs, pills, alcohol etc... Can we acknowledge that?


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

If it were strictly access to weapons that was the issue, a military base should be chock full of mass murders. Yet they aren't.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> Way less people would be dead and wounded today if he had not had access to a pile of guns and ammo. Surely you can acknowledge that reality?


Or poison, or bombs or moving cars or......... The main problem with focusing on guns it the impossibility of removing them at all. The idea has the virtue of simplicity but the sin of surity of failure.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Even with the long gun registry having been abandoned, we still have gun control and it's rife with contradictions. I suspect it's saved a few lives, although I haven't seen proof of that and I'm very reluctant to call it a success. 

During the massive flooding in High River, the entire town was evacuated and all access in and out of the town was heavily controlled by the RCMP, yet they still felt justified in breaking into homes and removing firearms that were technically safe and secured. 

Granted, people were allowed to have their firearms back, as long as they could prove they had they had the legal right to own them, which proved tricky because a lot of people evacuated in such a hurry that they were without documents and a few heirlooms were deemed 'illegal' weapons. 

It was found that the search and seizure of these firearms was a gross overreach by the RCMP and the legal battle wages on. 

Another little irony is that the big guy ordered a new trigger for something on our 'restricted' list and he's busy enough right now that he doesn't have time to take his gun into the gunsmith to have the work done. 

I do, but I'm not licensed for restricted firearms and technically not considered safe enough to transport one gun with a trigger lock into the city, have the trigger replaced, trigger lock put back on and deliver it back to our safe, yet two warring gangs who are shooting each other in the streets of Calgary, can go to the range at the same facility and legally hone their marksmanship skills.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

I guess this was going to get political eventually. I don't respect the idea that less people would have died if he didn't have a "pile of guns and ammo." In my opinion, that is just Barrack Obama clinging to what he thinks is a brilliant solution.

I think it comes from a misunderstanding of guns. I'm an amateur. But I can tell you right now that limiting my magazine to 10 rounds wouldn't accomplish much. If someone wants to ambush and surprise a school full of people, forcing them to reload after 10 rounds could maybe save someone...but more likely than not people will just manufacture their own magazines. Which honestly...doesn't appear to be that difficult. You only need ONE gun to shoot 30 people.

Furthermore. I just read a NYT article that said the UK, Canada, and Australia have the same mental health problems the United States does. I think that's utter bull. Our culture is actually pretty different. Ask any non-American if that's true or not.

I'm not willing to let the government touch our guns. And I'm not even willing to discuss restrictions (outside of letting a city ask people to not walk around with an AK slung on their shoulder) with the Left until they admit that the statistics are skewed. Gang violence in our inner cities make up the vast majority of our gun violence in the United States. I've never heard one liberal gun control advocate admit that. Ever. I've never heard them admit that we have a very different inner city gang problem than the UK, Canada, Australia, Japan....whoever. I would compare us more to Johannesburg, South Africa than any of those countries. And it isn't like gangs in other countries, who have less gangs and therefore less gang violence, don't have gang related gun violence. I would argue that if they had the same gang problem as us, their statistics would look a lot different.

So when that particular side of the debate tells me to "get real." All I really have to say is. No. You get real. Norway has stricter gun control laws. They had one of the worst massacres I've ever heard of. And it wasn't very long ago.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

wr said:


> But what are you prepared to give in return?
> 
> Will it still be okay if you have to hand over some of your firearms for destruction, get a special permit do you can buy ammo and powder?
> 
> Are you also okay with the idea your home can be searched on the premise you may have illegal firearms or they could simply be removed from you home in the event of a community disaster?


No I am not. I do not want to give up any rights until it can be absolutely proven that there is some benefit t it. And if you have read my other posts here you would know that my focus is actually not on the guns. He didn't do it because he had guns and he was bored. Or because guns are somehow inherently evil and possessed him to do it. 

The shooter is part of a group of unhappy and disgruntled young men in this country who have no hope and no future and they see no way out and so they decide to go out in a blaze of glory. Guns just make it a whole lot easier to kill people en masse. And yes they do occasionally use bombs or fire. But it's the rarity no the norm. 

Guns and ammo are very cheaply and easily acquired and raise no red flags. I don't know any way as of right now to change that and unless someone comes up with a way to flag purchasers without unduly trampling the rights of all of us law abiding citizens I won't be for it.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> No I am not. I do not want to give up any rights until it can be absolutely proven that there is some benefit t it. And if you have read my other posts here you would know that my focus is actually not on the guns. He didn't do it because he had guns and he was bored. Or because guns are somehow inherently evil and possessed him to do it.
> 
> The shooter is part of a group of unhappy and disgruntled young men in this country who have no hope and no future and they see no way out and so they decide to go out in a blaze of glory. Guns just make it a whole lot easier to kill people en masse. And yes they do occasionally use bombs or fire. But it's the rarity no the norm.
> 
> Guns and ammo are very cheaply and easily acquired and raise no red flags. I don't know any way as of right now to change that and unless someone comes up with a way to flag purchasers without unduly trampling the rights of all of us law abiding citizens I won't be for it.


Whoa. They may be disgruntled but they certainly have more than average in line of options. They choose this one because the have the wherewithal to choose it.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*Oregon college shooter Christopher Harper-Mercer's suicide after deadly rampage was planned, survivor says*

BY NANCY DILLON NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Updated: Saturday, October 3

The Oregon college killer made good on a promise to his innocent victims: His deadly rampage would end in suicide.

An autopsy determined gunman Christopher Sean Harper-Mercer killed himself Thursday morning after his shooting spree on the campus of Umpqua Community College, said Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin.

Authorities initially believed the 26-year-old killer died in a gunfight with police respond to the campus. He apparently shot himself as cops closed in after responding to a 911 call.

One of the students who survived the killing of nine people inside a college classroom told the Daily News on Saturday that Harper-Mercer mentioned several times that he planned to shoot himself after killing his classmates.

Rand McGowan was inside the Snyder Hall classroom when Harper-Mercer walked through the door and casually started shooting, he said.

The heavily armed killer huddled the students together and then began singling them out for death while asking them about faith.

Despite some reports to the contrary, McGowan said Harper-Mercer didn't appear to target Christians in particular.

"He didn't really, honestly," McGowan said in a quiet voice while standing on the doorstep of his house in Roseburg, Oregon, on Saturday morning.

McGowanâs right arm was wrapped up after surgery from a gunshot wound.
Read the rest:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...mercer-planned-kill-witness-article-1.2384171

Read the rest. There is new information about what happened.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

gapeach said:


> *Oregon college shooter Christopher Harper-Mercer's suicide after deadly rampage was planned, survivor says*
> 
> BY NANCY DILLON NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Updated: Saturday, October 3
> 
> ...


Whether he said anything at all about religion, I still say that we can't really take him seriously. He was disturbed, depressed, delusional, and looking to go down in a blaze of glory. I do believe religion was probably one of the many things he covered in his self indulged rants. I would imagine that it might have even come to mind that day considering he fully intended to kill people, and die himself. I wouldn't be surprised if he had some things to say about it as a result. That doesn't make Christianity the victim here. 

And I know you aren't saying that it does, gapeach, I just wanted to respond to the information you posted.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

wiscto said:


> Whether he said anything at all about religion, I still say that we can't really take him seriously. He was disturbed, depressed, delusional, and looking to go down in a blaze of glory. I do believe religion was probably one of the many things he covered in his self indulged rants. I would imagine that it might have even come to mind that day considering he fully intended to kill people, and die himself. I wouldn't be surprised if he had some things to say about it as a result. That doesn't make Christianity the victim here.
> 
> And I know you aren't saying that it does, gapeach, I just wanted to respond to the information you posted.


I don't know what caused him to do what he did. I had not heard though that he was a student in that class. I wonder why he would have shot the teacher in the head through the window first? The writings that he did must have revealed a lot to the FBI. Nothing we have read about him suggests that he had a racial problem but he did. The FBI is saying that his writings were race and hate based. Then he also likes Nazis, the IRA. They probably have told just a little bit of what they know. I guess the conclusion is really that he just hated everything and maybe everybody too.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Sure. Lets say the shooter asked if the vic's if they were muslim and shot them when they said yes. The media would be sobbing 24/7 for weeks. But oh no, he couldn't be asking and shooting if they were Christians.....
Will we hear about the manifesto he handed someone,dought it.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

gapeach said:


> I don't know what caused him to do what he did. I had not heard though that he was a student in that class. I wonder why he would have shot the teacher in the head through the window first? The writings that he did must have revealed a lot to the FBI. Nothing we have read about him suggests that he had a racial problem but he did. The FBI is saying that his writings were race and hate based. Then he also likes Nazis, the IRA. They probably have told just a little bit of what they know. I guess the conclusion is really that he just hated everything and maybe everybody too.


My experience with this personality type is that they are all over the map. Nazis, IRA, anti-religion...I'm sure he vehemently believed all kinds of things at various points in time. But I will also agree to just wait for all of the information.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

It will probably be quite a while before they release the manifesto because they want to see if there were any others that he might have worked with or have known.

I did read that his mother is an LPN not an RN.
She is only licensed in Oregon.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

gapeach said:


> It will probably be quite a while before they release the manifesto because they want to see if there were any others that he might have worked with or have known.
> 
> I did read that his mother is an LPN not an RN.
> She is only licensed in Oregon.


Peach, have you heard about cnn changeing the image of the shooter to make him look more "white". I also just sent you more info about the russian connection...


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

wiscto said:


> My experience with this personality type is that they are all over the map. Nazis, IRA, anti-religion...I'm sure he vehemently believed all kinds of things at various points in time. But I will also agree to just wait for all of the information.


I don't think we are going to get all the info. Not if it makes people stop the refugee surge.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

7thswan said:


> Peach, have you heard about cnn changeing the image of the shooter to make him look more "white". I also just sent you more info about the russian connection...


Oh, my gosh, no but am not surprised.:facepalm:


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Patchouli View Post
> Way less people would be dead and wounded today if he had not had access to a pile of guns and ammo. Surely you can acknowledge that *reality*?


Reality is even with record numbers of guns being sold, the murder rates continue to drop. 

He had committed no prior crimes to my knowledge, and had no history of true "mental disabilities" serious enough to restrict his rights.

There are hundreds of millions of guns in the country that are never going to be used in any crimes, and tighter restrictions won't stop these things from happening.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

He went to a school in CA that specialized in learning disabilities , mental difficulties, Autism and told his mother that they had worked with children with Aspergers Syndrome. His mother said that her son had Aspergers and that she also had worked with people with Asperger's where she was employed.

I posted this on the wrong thread but it should work here as well.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Reality is even with record numbers of guns being sold, the murder rates continue to drop.
> 
> He had committed no prior crimes to my knowledge, and had no history of true "mental disabilities" serious enough to restrict his rights.
> 
> There are hundreds of millions of guns in the country that are never going to be used in any crimes, and tighter restrictions won't stop these things from happening.


You're right but these things WILL cause restrictions and possibly bans. I would never have thought Britain and Australia would ban gun ownership but mass shootings caused them both to. Millions of people, many who don't even own guns or want guns, are fine with others owning them. Every one of these incidents causes more of them to question the wisdom of allowing gun ownership. I'll guarantee there are fewer people today for gun ownership than before this incident.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

poppy said:


> You're right but these things WILL cause restrictions and possibly bans. I would never have thought Britain and Australia would ban gun ownership but mass shootings caused them both to. Millions of people, many who don't even own guns or want guns, are fine with others owning them. Every one of these incidents causes more of them to question the wisdom of allowing gun ownership. I'll guarantee there are fewer people today for gun ownership than before this incident.


Problem is one day after Oregon Australia had a semi mass shooting killing at least 2. And neither of those nations had a constitutional right to bare arms. They will never be banned as they know a civil war would follow. Americans love their guns. It would be chaos and the party that does it would never be in power again.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Problem is one day after Oregon Australia had a semi mass shooting killing at least 2. And neither of those nations had a constitutional right to bare arms. They will never be banned as they know a civil war would follow. Americans love their guns. It would be chaos and the party that does it would never be in power again.


Of course it won't prevent anything but that is not the goal of the left. Their goal is control. Sure, it would be chaos for awhile and the party that does it would not win reelection for awhile, but would it be undone? From what I've seen with Obamacare so far from the republicans, no, it would not.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Everything that comes from the left is control. They want to take over our rights for everything. Free speech, gun rights, all of our freedoms.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

poppy said:


> Of course it won't prevent anything but that is not the goal of the left. Their goal is control. Sure, it would be chaos for awhile and the party that does it would not win reelection for awhile, but would it be undone? From what I've seen with Obamacare so far from the republicans, no, it would not.


The republicans do not have enough majority in either house to override a veto.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Obama cant use eo on a constitutional right. It would require a constitutional amendment. He cant do that by himself. He can try certain weapons and mag capacities, but that's about it. I have zero fear of a ban. There is way to much money and power in the gun business and it's politicians. Now assault weapons abs mag capacities could get hit. Even certain ammo types. But the guns I use in my life for hunting and protection of both my family and livestock, aren't going anywhere.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

What IS it he wants? He keeps saying we need to do something about all this...but offers no solutions. Therefore we all think he means taking guns...prolly so, but just what would he think would work?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Hypothetically

A mom, who is on anti-depressants, consumes copious amounts of artificial sweeteners during pregnancy and is in a verbally/emotionally abusive marriage, carries a son to full term and delivers.

This boy is coddled, babied, favored by both mom and dad, while his "step sister" (mom's from a previous marriage, and who is 7 years older than the boy) is verbally, emotionally abused by the step father, and never defended by the mother.
By age 3 anyone with eyes can see this boy is fully in control of this family......
By age 5 there's something in that kids 'eyes' that just isn't right.
It's more than just a 'spoiled brat'.

By age 9, he has pulled a knife on the neighbors, caused property damage and then bold faced lied about it (cause mommy runs to the rescue, and daddy does too).
He uses his sister (who is 16) as his scape goat and has since he was 5 because it worked.
Eventually the family had to SELL THEIR HOME AND MOVE because the child had ruined ALL relationships on their culdesac, AND at the local elementary school.
So way out in the country these city folks go.
They buy him whatever he wants. Motorcycles, ATV's, Bow and Arrows, Rifles.......

He's on social media. He's deep into porn; his posts, likes are grossly perverted (he's 14 years old now). He is completely self absorbed (read Narcissist) and believes he is so special (per mommy and daddy) that he can do no wrong, and is above any law (read Sociopath).

He's been on and off medication since he was 9.

Relatives, close friends of the family have said since this kid was 5:
"We will read about him in the paper one day......and he will start w/ his own family before he goes out and mows down the masses".

He is a middle teen.
He has NO police record.
His mommy and daddy will buy him whatever he wants, when ever he wants, and they see NO problem with their son, because they believe he is SO SPECIAL (think god like status) that people just 'don't understand'.

Someone tell me; what can joe average citizen do?
What can his teachers do?
What can the neighbors do?
What can realitives do?

I asked this question on another thread an NO ONE answered.........


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Hypothetically
> 
> A mom, who is on anti-depressants, consumes copious amounts of artificial sweeteners during pregnancy and is in a verbally/emotionally abusive marriage, carries a son to full term and delivers.
> 
> ...


How can anyone answer your fabricated scenario?
What would you expect anyone to "do" when it's none of their business?


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> His mommy and daddy will buy him whatever he wants, when ever he wants, and they see NO problem with their son, because they believe he is SO SPECIAL (think god like status) that people just 'don't understand'.
> 
> Someone tell me; what can joe average citizen do?
> What can his teachers do?
> ...


 Don't buy him a gun, for starters.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> How can anyone answer your fabricated scenario?
> What would you expect anyone to "do" when it's none of their business?


What if it's not fabricated?
And there are PLENTY of posts saying "someone should have done something" about this recent unstable / full of hate, shooter.

MY QUESTION was for those who said something should be done with people who exhibit 'unstable, hatefilled, lives'

If you didn't pose this question or position then I guess the question was not for you.......



greg273 said:


> Don't buy him a gun, for starters.


Re read.
The gun is already purchased.
NOW what do you do? What CAN you do?


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> The republicans do not have enough majority in either house to override a veto.


But they do have a majority. So who is going to pass what? What would even make it to the Oval Office to get a veto?


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Apparently he was telling people they could beg or crawl for their lives, and shot them anyway. Gave an envelope to a pastor's daughter and said she was the lucky one who got to spread his message to the police.

http://news.yahoo.com/oregon-gunman-army-dropout-studied-mass-shooters-041933070.html#


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wiscto said:


> But they do have a majority. So who is going to pass what? What would even make it to the Oval Office to get a veto?


Repealing the entire bill could be passed today. And die tomorrow when Obama vetoes it. What's the point?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> What if it's not fabricated?
> And there are PLENTY of posts saying "someone should have done something" about this recent unstable / full of hate, shooter.
> 
> MY QUESTION was for those who said something should be done with people who exhibit 'unstable, hatefilled, lives'
> ...


Promise Lenny boy that he can take care of the rabbits when we get our own place, then take him for a long walk after supper.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> What if it's not fabricated?
> And there are PLENTY of posts saying "someone should have done something" about this recent unstable / full of hate, shooter.
> 
> MY QUESTION was for those who said something should be done with people who exhibit 'unstable, hatefilled, lives'
> ...


You said it was hypothetical.

Even if it were real, the situation you describe involves no crime, no violence, and no official declarations of mental deficiencies.

It's merely describing a family, and it's no one else's business

"Unstable" and "hatefilled" mean nothing without crimes or violence committed to warrant a restriction of anyone's rights.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You said it was hypothetical.
> 
> *Even if it were real, the situation you describe involves no crime, no violence, and no official declarations of mental deficiencies.
> 
> ...


The kid in my scenario HAS been in trouble HAS been noted by his elementary teachers he has a propensity to violence/violent outbursts.
HE HAS shown/displayed anger and hate.......

The shooter at that college, had no record, bought the guns legally, and was "odd"......

*Many posters were saying "we should do more" "someone should have said something" etc.

*My question was to those posters...........
Someone tell me; what can joe average citizen do?
What can his teachers do?
What can the neighbors do?
What can realitives do?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

wiscto said:


> Furthermore. I just read a NYT article that said the UK, Canada, and Australia have the same mental health problems the United States does. I think that's utter bull. Our culture is actually pretty different. Ask any non-American if that's true or not.


I'm not sure I'm understanding your point on this matter. Certainly your culture is different than mine but I'm trying to understand if you're of the opinion that societal impact resulting from mental illnesses are different or if you're suggesting that in some countries mental illness are simply less significant.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

I believe we have more people going through mental breakdowns and problems with mental health in this country due to our lack of morals and the constant pushing of all this technology, sex, drugs and more. I think to many kids are warped from prescription drugs while their brains are still in development and I believe the parents and their doctors are most to blame. There is no family structure anymore. Feminist made sure of that. To many broken homes. It's a combination of things but most start in the families. And even before birth with whatever the moms are taking, eating, drinking and so on. Guns are the lowest thing on the list of problems.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-oregon-shooting-20151004-story.html

A simple heartbreaking dose of reality. The story from a survivor.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Vahomesteaders said:


> I believe we have more people going through mental breakdowns and problems with mental health in this country due to our lack of morals and the constant pushing of all this technology, sex, drugs and more. I think to many kids are warped from prescription drugs while their brains are still in development and I believe the parents and their doctors are most to blame. There is no family structure anymore. Feminist made sure of that. To many broken homes. It's a combination of things but most start in the families. And even before birth with whatever the moms are taking, eating, drinking and so on. Guns are the lowest thing on the list of problems.


it's nice that you believe all of this. Do you have any evidence to base it on?


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

basketti said:


> it's nice that you believe all of this. Do you have any evidence to base it on?


Which part? The part where 1 in 7 children are on some form of physciatrict medicine? The part where 1 in 4 women are on them? The part where a spirited kid who looks for outdoors activities is adhd and put on meds while their brain is still developing? When other countries ban all those meds under 18. Or the part where feminist jumped out of their traditional nurturing role and have feminized men to be their equal and churning out weak men and weak children with no sense of direction. And ending the traditional family structure. I could go on and on.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

*
 Obama Goes Beyond Mere Gun Control, Hints at Confiscation

"We know that other countries, in response to one mass shooting, have been able to craft laws that almost eliminate mass shootings. Friends of ours, allies of ours &#8212; Great Britain, Australia, countries like ours. So we know there are ways to prevent it."

And Obama is not the only one who suggested taking a gun-free approach to American life. The anti-Second Amendment message was also pushed by Slate, Vox, and Dan Savage.

For example, on October 1 Slate ran a story reminding readers that Australia enacted their gun ban in response to an attack on April 28, 1996, wherein a gunman &#8220;opened fire on tourists in a seaside resort in Port Arthur, Tasmania.&#8221; Thirty-five were killed and 23 others wounded in the attack. Twelve days later Australia&#8217;s government banned guns, period...*

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...s-beyond-mere-gun-control-hints-confiscation/


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

wr said:


> I'm not sure I'm understanding your point on this matter. Certainly your culture is different than mine but I'm trying to understand if you're of the opinion that societal impact resulting from mental illnesses are different or if you're suggesting that in some countries mental illness are simply less significant.


I'm saying our culture has a different effect on susceptible minds.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I know it seems like a lot of crazys doing a lot of shootings but we have three hundred million people and maybe thirty of them a year go off the deep end per year. That's one nut case per ten million.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Well that's why they run per-capita statistics, YH.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wiscto said:


> Well that's why they run per-capita statistics, YH.


Sometimes and sometimes not.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Here's the point. 








You're over here.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

gapeach said:


> Everything that comes from the left is control. They want to take over our rights for everything. Free speech, gun rights, all of our freedoms.


But you'll have the right to marry a goat and force it to bake you a cake.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Hypothetically
> 
> A mom, who is on anti-depressants, consumes copious amounts of artificial sweeteners during pregnancy and is in a verbally/emotionally abusive marriage, carries a son to full term and delivers.
> 
> ...


Did this kid run for president?


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Cornhusker said:


> But you'll have the right to marry a goat and force it to bake you a cake.


You know the government had no business in marriage. Your cake guy had a point. Everything else you guys have been upset about with the marriage ruling is just your side trying to CONTROL everyone else. Accept the truth.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> But you'll have the right to marry a goat and force it to bake you a cake.


Only if it's over 18, mentally competent, can read, understand and sign the license and operates a retail business open to the public


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Only if it's over 18, mentally competent, can read, understand and sign the license and operates a retail business open to the public


Oh come on those are just details. How do you know goats won't be able to read in the future? ;-)


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

wiscto said:


> Oh come on those are just details. How do you know goats won't be able to read in the future? ;-)


I see plenty of people who don't meet all those qualifications, so I'm not holding out too much hope for the goats


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I see plenty of people who don't meet all those qualifications, so I'm not holding out too much hope for the goats


Just you wait until they cook up those evil genius GM goats in the lab.......


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MO_cows said:


> Just you wait until they cook up those evil genius GM goats in the lab.......


They've cloned sheep already.
They may be running the whole show now


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wiscto said:


> You know the government had no business in marriage.


So does this mean marrying ones goat should be legal? Anything is legal if the government makes no law against it.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> So does this mean marrying ones goat should be legal? Anything is legal if the government makes no law against it.


Look at you going against your own philosophical principles and embellishing reality just to argue with me. This must be a hard time for you.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wiscto said:


> Look at you going against your own philosophical principles and embellishing reality just to argue with me. This must be a hard time for you.


What philosophical principles are you talking about? I simply asked for clarification. :shrug:


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> What philosophical principles are you talking about? I simply asked for clarification. :shrug:


Oh okay. Clarification ha? People can say they're married to a goat all they want. If they act like they're married to a goat they're going to jail on bestiality charges, probably animal abuse, and they might be on their way to an involuntary stay at a state run mental illness center. 

See now I was worried all of the sudden that you thought a government should have the right to decide who can and cannot get married.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wiscto said:


> Oh okay. Clarification ha? People can say they're married to a goat all they want. If they act like they're married to a goat they're going to jail on bestiality charges, probably animal abuse, and they might be on their way to an involuntary stay at a state run mental illness center.
> 
> See now I was worried all of the sudden that you thought a government should have the right to decide who can and cannot get married.


I have never argued the government should be in charge of who can or cannot get married. Only that if they do get involved that all citizens be granted equal treatment under the law.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I have never argued the government should be in charge of who can or cannot get married. Only that if they do get involved that all citizens be granted equal treatment under the law.


Then I guess I'll assume that you're trolling me.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wiscto said:


> Then I guess I'll assume that you're trolling me.


I was just asking a question based upon your comment that appeared as though you thought government should not be involved with marriage. No trolling involved.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I was just asking a question based upon your comment that appeared as though you thought government should not be involved with marriage. No trolling involved.


ound:


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Cornhusker said:


> But you'll have the right to marry a goat and force it to bake you a cake.





wiscto said:


> *You know the government had no business in marriage. *Your cake guy had a point. Everything else you guys have been upset about with the marriage ruling is just your side trying to CONTROL everyone else. Accept the truth.





wiscto said:


> Oh come on those are just details. How do you know goats won't be able to read in the future? ;-)





Yvonne's hubby said:


> *So does this mean marrying ones goat should be legal? Anything is legal if the government makes no law against it.*


sorry but I see no trolling, fly, or any other kind of fishing. So let's try again and see if you will give us an honest straight up answer. Do you think marrying a goat should be legal. A simple yes or no will suffice.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> sorry but I see no trolling, fly, or any other kind of fishing. So let's try again and see if you will give us an honest straight up answer. *Do you think marrying a goat should be legal.* A simple yes or no will suffice.


Only if it is a REAL pretty goat. Don't marry a pig. If you have sex with them, they'll squeal on ya.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

poppy said:


> Only if it is a REAL pretty goat. Don't marry a pig. If you have sex with them, they'll squeal on ya.


I don't even wanna know how you know that!:hysterical:


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> *I have never argued the government should be in charge of who can or cannot get married.* Only that if they do get involved that all citizens be granted equal treatment under the law.





Yvonne's hubby said:


> sorry but I see no trolling, fly, or any other kind of fishing. So let's try again and see if you will give us an honest straight up answer. Do you think marrying a goat should be legal. A simple yes or no will suffice.


ound:

Do you really think I'm just going to play your little game with you? "A simple yes or no will suffice." Are you spinning a little coin? Is this supposed to be hypnosis? You speak your magical words and suddenly I will forget that reality doesn't exist inside the little question marked box you decided to put it in on my behalf? 

I believe it is impossible to marry a goat. That's what I believe. I believe people can walk around saying they're married to whomever and whatever they want. As soon as it becomes a problem, we already have laws on the books to deal with that sort of thing. Just like some town in Ohio dealt with the guy who decided to fornicate with a park bench.

Now. Your turn. Do you think marrying a goat should be illegal? It's a simple question, yes or no will suffice.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wiscto said:


> ound:
> 
> Do you really think I'm just going to play your little game with you? "A simple yes or no will suffice." Are you spinning a little coin? Is this supposed to be hypnosis? You speak your magical words and suddenly I will forget that reality doesn't exist inside the little question marked box you decided to put it in on my behalf?
> 
> ...


Yes. Ok to add enough characters.... That's not a hard question at all.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Yes. Ok to add enough characters.... That's not a hard question at all.


So just to clarify. You think it's possible to marry a goat. And you think government should be involved in marriage.

Roger that.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wiscto said:


> So just to clarify. You think it's possible to marry a goat. And you think government should be involved in marriage.
> 
> Roger that.


i said it should be illegal to marry a goat, but then again maybe not, my Yvonne is married to an old one........ So I've been told.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Id say it should be illegal to try to claim government benefits based on such a marriage or to consummate such a marriage but if being married to your goat makes you happy it does me no harm so there should be no law prohibiting it. Heck, if you want to marry all your goats it's between you and them.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

How did this go from a shooting to marriage?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> How did this go from a shooting to marriage?


Government.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

I'm sorry I came late to this thread


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*Alleged Oregon Shooter Discharged From Army After Suicide Attempt
Christopher Harper-Mercer left basic training after just one month in 2008*

By DAN FROSCH and BEN KESLING
Updated Oct. 7, 2015 8:46 p.m. ET

The alleged gunman who killed nine people and wounded nine others at a rural community college in Oregon last Thursday had been discharged from the Army after attempting to commit suicide, according to law-enforcement officials familiar with the case.

Christopher Harper-Mercer, who was 26 years old at the time of the shooting, was discharged from basic training at Fort Jackson, S.C., after just one month in 2008.

The Army said it couldn&#8217;t confirm details of his discharge due to privacy regulations. But law-enforcement officials familiar with the investigation into last week&#8217;s mass shooting at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg said the discharge occurred after Mr. Harper-Mercer tried to take his own life. read more....
http://www.wsj.com/articles/accused...-after-attempting-suicide-1444249903?mod=e2fb

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/alleg...rom-army-after-suicide-attempt-20151007-01234

Why is he still the alledged shooter? He was the shooter for sure.
IMO, all schools now need to have an armed guard.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*-delete double post- Firefox hung up.*


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Has anyone seen the local people in Roseburg commenting on obama's plans to visit?

Those folks have not been afraid to say what they feel. They don't want the media following a pres visit will have. They don't want to hear about any gun control. And they want to be left alone.

I don't think o' will have much of a welcome wagon.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

partndn said:


> Has anyone seen the local people in Roseburg commenting on obama's plans to visit?
> 
> Those folks have not been afraid to say what they feel. They don't want the media following a pres visit will have. They don't want to hear about any gun control. And they want to be left alone.
> 
> I don't think o' will have much of a welcome wagon.


Local news had a piece. One Republican objecting and the Republican mayor just pleased as punch. Your usual puff piece where an interview from opposing sides constitutes 'balanced reporting.' 
I imagine the national press will follow the President to Roseburg and there will be a lot of close up shots of the crowd. Those who would normally protest will be restrained by the tragedy into silence. Unfortunately not the President I think although rarely he has seemed to respond appropriately to the circumstances.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Why does the President have to go in the first place?

I don't understand.

Show sympathy? They don't know him, and he doesn't know them......

I don't care WHOM the sitting President, I don't see how he/she being there makes any difference? 

Quite frankly, if I lived there, and was part of that community, I would NOT want the President there. 
He/She would disrupt the mourning and rebuilding process with all the media, security, shutting down roads, check points, etc.

Leave these people alone and let them mourn, bury their dead, and heal.


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