# The 'tradwife' movement leading the backlash against feminism



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

*https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7899355/What-tradwife-trend-sweping-households.html*

*The 'tradwife' movement leading the backlash against feminism: Submitting to your husband like it's the '50s is the new trend sweeping UK households (and you can even do a training course in 'perfect femininity)*

"Amid the Me Too movement and radical feminism, a new opposing trend has emerged across Britain - the 'tradwife' trend. 

Harking back to 1950s Britain, and already established in the US, the trend sees women reverting to the traditional roles of housewives, practiced in the fifties and sixties.

The belief behind the movement is that wives should not work, and rather spend their days cooking, cleaning, wearing modest and feminine dress, and practice traditional etiquette, being submissive to their husbands and 'always put them first'."


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I believe there are many great mothers and wives making a home and family work


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

I don't understand either extreme. But that's ok. I'll live my life and let them live theirs!


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Is is a lifestyle choice not a backlash.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Weird.
I was a stay at home mom and did the cooking and cleaning (sometimes we had cleaning lady) but as for the rest of it...NUH-UH.
I’m a feminist and I believe every woman should have a choice to do what she wants as far as they can afford it. I do think kids should have a stay at home parent, but that can be the dad too.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Weird.
> i was a stay at home mom and did the cooking and cleaning (sometimes we had cleaning lady) but as for the rest of it...NUH-UH.
> I’m a feminist and I believe every woman should have a choice to do what she wants.


So, in your own words what are the main tenants of feminism?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> So, in your own words what are the main tenants of feminism?


why do I feel like that may be a trick question?
Off the top of my head, To be treated equally and have the same opportunities as men.

I would be remiss in not telling you that it’s “tenets” not “tenants”.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Is is a lifestyle choice not a backlash.


Write to the author of the article if you disagree with them.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Disagreeing right here suits me just fine. You brought the topic here for discussion I assume.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Disagreeing right here suits me just fine. You brought the topic here *for discussion* I assume.


I was discussing who you should tell about that opinion.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I was pretty icked out to hear there is a “domestic discipline” “school of thought” (for lack of a better label) out there too. People are weird.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I was discussing who you should tell about that opinion.


I already decided who I would tell.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> why do I feel like that may be a trick question?
> Off the top of my head, To be treated equally and have the same opportunities as men.
> 
> I would be remiss in not telling you that it’s “tenets” not “tenants”.


First, thanks for catching my misuse of the word "tenants".

Second, it is not a trick question. I just wanted to see how you might define it, and would welcome anyone else so inclined to contribute.

I think your definition is beautiful.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> First, thanks for catching my misuse of the word "tenants".
> .


Thanks for your forebearance. I don’t have a regular job so this is my life’s work. please see my last post in the humor thread.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lisa in WA said:


> Weird.
> I was a stay at home mom and did the cooking and cleaning (sometimes we had cleaning lady) but as for the rest of it...NUH-UH.
> I’m a feminist and I believe every woman should have a choice to do what she wants as far as they can afford it. I do think kids should have a stay at home parent, but that can be the dad too.


But do you believe she should have the right to have the choice to be a traditional wife


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> But do you believe she should have the right to have the choice to be a traditional wife


Of course I do. And I have the right to think it’s weird.
I believe people have the right to do most things until it infringes on the rights of someone else.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Is feminism the correct definition for demanding equal rights? The right to vote, the right to earn the same wage as the male co-worker in the same position, the right to make decisions for ourselves?

Feminism to me was just a bridge too far for me. Too many loud voices that found it offensive to have a door opened for them, burn their bras. I mean really? How is that important in the grand scheme of things?

And if you want to see what Tradwives is just watch TLC.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I already decided who I would tell.


I expected nothing different.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lisa in WA said:


> I was pretty icked out to hear there is a “domestic discipline” “school of thought” (for lack of a better label) out there too. People are weird.





Lisa in WA said:


> I was pretty icked out to hear there is a “domestic discipline” “school of thought” (for lack of a better label) out there too. People are weird.


What’s wrong with domestic discipline ?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

robin416 said:


> Is feminism the correct definition for demanding equal rights? The right to vote, the right to earn the same wage as the male co-worker in the same position, the right to make decisions for ourselves?
> 
> Feminism to me was just a bridge too far for me. Too many loud voices that found offending to have a door opened for them, burn their bras. I mean really? How is that important in the grand scheme of things?
> 
> And if you want to see what Tradwives is just watch TLC.


That was a bit before my time. I think feminism means different things to different people.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> What’s wrong with domestic discipline ?





AmericanStand said:


> What’s wrong with domestic discipline ?


I’m not super into the endless back and forth so I’ll let you decide in your head what you think, I think is wrong with that and just go with it.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

robin416 said:


> Is feminism the correct definition for demanding equal rights? The right to vote, the right to earn the same wage as the male co-worker in the same position, the right to make decisions for ourselves?
> 
> Feminism to me was just a bridge too far for me. Too many loud voices that found it offensive to have a door opened for them, burn their bras. I mean really? How is that important in the grand scheme of things?
> 
> And if you want to see what Tradwives is just watch TLC.


I liked how Lisa put it.

Why should a woman be offended if I open a door for her, if I am not offended when she opened it for me?

Being militant is an altogether different beast. Wearing those pink hats is vulgar. Vulgarity has no place in public.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

That's the right word, militant. I don't like extremes of any kind and many are just too extreme.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I liked how Lisa put it.
> 
> Why should a woman be offended if I open a door for her, if I am not offended when she opened it for me?
> 
> Being militant is an altogether different beast. Wearing those pink hats is vulgar. Vulgarity has no place in public.


well...I did wear a pink hat in the Women’s March, but it wasn’t vulgar.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> well...I did wear a pink hat in the Women’s March, but it wasn’t vulgar.


I think they are.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> What’s wrong with domestic discipline ?


What is your definition of the phrase?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I think they are.


That’s okay. I don’t mind if you think so. I swear sometimes too and I expect that’s vulgar.
I’ve learned to live with my shortcomings.

I did finally quit spitting in public so that’s a bonus.  (Jk)


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> What is your definition of the phrase?


submissive wives who are spanked by their husbands.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> That’s okay. I don’t mind if you think so. I swear sometimes too and I expect that’s vulgar.
> I’ve learned to live with my shortcomings.


I make a habit out of asking people, most often boys or young men, to not swear in front of children. 

I don't like base behavior in public, especially around children, or elders. 

You never know when it might be recorded and then used against you.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I make a habit out of asking people, most often boys or young men, to not swear in front of children.
> 
> I don't like base behavior in public, especially around children, or elders.
> 
> You never know when it might be recorded and then used against you.


If you met me you’d not guess how vulgar I am. I’m an undercover vulgarian.
Unless you were at the Women's March. Then you’d guess it right away. 
Do you dislike all pink hats?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

There isn't much about it on the 'net, at least not much more than what is linked in the op. I don't think it's a big deal, just one woman getting her 15 minutes of fame. She'll probably make a few bucks off it then drop the whole thing.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> If you met me you’d not guess how vulgar I am. I’m an undercover vulgarian.


I actually like undercover vulgarians. I know all the passwords.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lisa in WA said:


> submissive wives who are spanked by their husbands.


Lol
Now that’s funny


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Lisa in WA said:


> submissive wives who are spanked by their husbands.


I just wonder what his definition is. He does have a different outlook from most. 

Hitting (of women) of any kind are not to be tolerated under any circumstance in my house. I cant say that I have never hit a man before though.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol
> Now that’s funny


But do you have an answer to my question or are you pleading the 5th?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> I just wonder what his definition is. He does have a different outlook from most.
> 
> Hitting (of women) of any kind are not to be tolerated under any circumstance in my house. I cant say that I have never hit a man before though.


I totally missed that you’d asked him. Sorry!


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

I think its awesome if that is what the couple wants and enjoys. I was lucky enough to stay at home when my boys were little and didn't go to work until they were both in school. I tried the corporate ladder thing for many years and discovered I don't like people BUT I love my hubby. So, I'm now a full time housewife and love it. Hubby likes it too. I don't wear the 50's dresses nor do I meet him at the door with pearls on, but I keep myself busy doing just about everything around the house. I do help hubby with his business (I'm the HR, Accounting, Techie person) but other than that, I keep the home fires burning. Suits us both just fine. I'm not a surrendered wife....I'm a partner with a man who enjoys taking care of me as I take care of him. 

Personally, I think Women are our own worse enemies. Feminist scream for equal this and equal that. But ladies....we are NOT men. We are NOT equal to men. We are women. Its like comparing apples and oranges. We can do things men can't. They can do things that most women can't (I won't say all women cause there are some pretty tough ladies out there) Why can't women be happy being women? I am not saying that women should be paid less for the exact same job or that women shouldn't go into certain career fields. (although I say if you ladies want to be "equal" and you join the military, the standards should be the same for both men and women....no girls doing less push-ups or not running as fast or not shaving that head in basic). IMO what feminist are really saying is "we want special treatment" so we can be considered equal to men.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The pink hats were beyond ridiculous. I think it made the wearers look like totally ignorant children throwing tantrums. If they think that wearing a hat that resembles a private body part is empowering, they are delusional.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Women are equal to men. They should be able to attempt to do anything men can. Not all men can do the same things, just as not all women can do the same things. Every one should have the right to try.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Lisa in WA said:


> I totally missed that you’d asked him. Sorry!


And I thought that was your thing. 

No worries as I did want to clarify my stance on the subject.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The pink hats were beyond ridiculous. I think it made the wearers look like totally ignorant children throwing tantrums. If they think that wearing a hat that resembles a private body part is empowering, they are delusional.


Thank goodness there wasn't a men's march like that. I don't think I could've watched that one.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> And I thought that was your thing.
> 
> No worries as I did want to clarify my stance on the subject.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

hiddensprings said:


> Personally, I think Women are our own worse enemies. Feminist scream for equal this and equal that. But ladies....we are NOT men. We are NOT equal to men. We are women. Its like comparing apples and oranges. We can do things men can't. They can do things that most women can't (I won't say all women cause there are some pretty tough ladies out there) Why can't women be happy being women? I am not saying that women should be paid less for the exact same job or that women shouldn't go into certain career fields. (although I say if you ladies want to be "equal" and you join the military, the standards should be the same for both men and women....no girls doing less push-ups or not running as fast or not shaving that head in basic). IMO what feminist are really saying is "we want special treatment" so we can be considered equal to men.


THIS^^^ !!!!!

For example: if you are a fireman (um... fireperson?) Ultimately I don't care if you wear your special bits on your chest or between your legs (or... both to be honest), I just want you to be able to carry my butt out of a burning building!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> Thank goodness there wasn't a men's march like that. I don't think I could've watched that one.


The first one was fun. The second one ...not so much. People find a way to spoil everything.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Women are equal to men. They should be able to attempt to do anything men can. Not all men can do the same things, just as not all women can do the same things. Every one should have the right to try.


That's the thing.... in the US anyway, you DO have the right to TRY.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

gleepish said:


> That's the thing.... in the US anyway, you DO have the right to TRY.


Legally but there are people who work hard at not letting you exercise that right.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Legally but there are people who work hard at not letting you exercise that right.


Kill 'em, or move along


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> The first one was fun. The second one ...not so much. People find a way to spoil everything.


I think I might be the only HTer who marched in the Women’s Marches. 
Total vulgarian.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

painterswife said:


> Women are equal to men. They should be able to attempt to do anything men can. Not all men can do the same things, just as not all women can do the same things. Every one should have the right to try.


There have been things I did around our place that was bigger than me but I usually found a way to get it done without the help of a man. Many times it was unorthodox but my carpenter husband would end up being impressed. 

And to put some credence to what you said about not all men being able to the same things as other men. I worked in the parts department of a large dealership. Guy comes in, broke his turn signal handle. Sell him one, tell him how to fix it. He looked at me like I was talking a foreign language. One of the guys tried to explain it to him, the customer still didn't get it. 

So, I grabbed a pair of pliers asked him to take me out to his car. Yanked out the broken part and installed the new one. No big deal but for this male customer it was over his head.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

HDRider said:


> I liked how Lisa put it.
> 
> Why should a woman be offended if I open a door for her, if I am not offended when she opened it for me?
> 
> Being militant is an altogether different beast. Wearing those pink hats is vulgar. Vulgarity has no place in public.


Pink is one of my favorite colors for women to wear. A lady in all pink is beautiful. I do not believe all that stuff about *****pink or whatever. When in H.S. in the 50/s pink slack was a trend for men for awhile. I didn't care about pink for men. However that is their business. I love ladies wearing pink whatever. No it does not remind me of anything vulgar at all. Just a nice color for a lady.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> I think I might be the only HTer who marched in the Women’s Marches.
> Total vulgarian.


You might be. Not agreeing or not joining in didn't stop me from crocheting about 100 of those ugly hats though. Made some good money making them!


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

robin416 said:


> There have been things I did around our place that was bigger than me but I usually found a way to get it done without the help of a man. Many times it was unorthodox but my carpenter husband would end up being impressed.
> 
> And to put some credence to what you said about not all men being able to the same things as other men. I worked in the parts department of a large dealership. Guy comes in, broke his turn signal handle. Sell him one, tell him how to fix it. He looked at me like I was talking a foreign language. One of the guys tried to explain it to him, the customer still didn't get it.
> 
> So, I grabbed a pair of pliers asked him to take me out to his car. Yanked out the broken part and installed the new one. No big deal but for this male customer it was over his head.


 He got you to do the job for him. Now that i am older a lot of young people think i am helpless and want to help do things like change a tire etc. Go for it. Makes me happy.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

101pigs said:


> He got you to do the job for him. Now that i am older a lot of young people think i am helpless and want to help do things like change a tire etc. Go for it. Makes me happy.


He was with a large commercial construction company and worked away from home. So, it was make a honey do list on the weekend he was home, hire someone, or figure out how to do it myself. I liked working out how to do it myself.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> submissive wives who are spanked by their husbands.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> I actually like undercover vulgarians. I know all the passwords.


Has there been collusion with the Vulgarians?


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Bearfootfarm said:


> *https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7899355/What-tradwife-trend-sweping-households.html*
> 
> *The 'tradwife' movement leading the backlash against feminism: Submitting to your husband like it's the '50s is the new trend sweeping UK households (and you can even do a training course in 'perfect femininity)*
> 
> ...


 If no kids in the family most women prefer to work at a regular job. Of course now days most women with kids work regular jobs as rent is high and hard to buy a home on just the man's pay.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

101pigs said:


> If no kids in the family most women prefer to work at a regular job. Of course now days most women with kids work regular jobs as rent is high and hard to buy a home on just the man's pay.


It’s now more of a status thing to be able to stay at home with children, which is sad. 
My CPA daughter went to part time (working at home) after our grandson was born and then quit altogether after Claire was born a year ago. Money is tighter but she’s happy to be able to be there. 
She did end up starting a home business via Etsy that’s been wildly successful so that’s put more back into the family coffers.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> So, in your own words what are the main tenants of feminism?


Having a really bad attitude seems to be one of the biggies.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Having a really bad attitude seems to be one of the biggies.


Well, thanks.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> Well, thanks.


Speaking in general terms, from the male perspective of course.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Having a really bad attitude seems to be one of the biggies.


Rush Limbaugh called them Femi-Nazi's.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Rush Limbaugh called them Femi-Nazi's.


I have to say that Rush Limbaugh’s good opinion is something I don’t much worry about.
I listened to him for a while back in the 90’s when I was a conservative and I didn’t think much of him then either.
I have a low tolerance for gasbags.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> I have a low tolerance for gasbags.


Me too but that description fit well for the ones he was referring to.
He didn't apply the term to all women as far as I know.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Feminism is about being free, as a woman, to make your own choices and run your own life. It is about equal pay for equal work, voting rights, equal opportunity. It is about not being restricted to and forced into a particular role because of gender. It is about not being treated like you are a moron because of gender.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Me too but that description fit well for the ones he was referring to.
> He didn't apply the term to all women as far as I know.


Nor do I. Overall I find women to be the superior half of our species. Then their is that few.....


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Feminism is about being free, as a woman, to make your own choices and run your own life. It is about equal pay for equal work, voting rights, equal opportunity. It is about not being restricted to and forced into a particular role because of gender. It is about not being treated like you are a moron because of gender.


Nobody is "forced" to do anything they don't want to do in this country. It's that "equality under the law" thing. Want better pay? Do better work, improve your negotiation skills. Better yet go into business for yourself... The sky and your own abilities become the limit!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

robin416 said:


> He was with a large commercial construction company and worked away from home. So, it was make a honey do list on the weekend he was home, hire someone, or figure out how to *do it myself*. I liked working out how to do it myself.


That's *much* better than saving the chores for him to do on his days off simply because you don't want to do them.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

My wife, and her best friend both believe that a harkening back to 50s family values would be a good thing, where everyone seemed to be happier knowing what role they played. The Women's Lib movement caused an upheaval in traditional values, but now, women are starting to see that the business world is cut throat, and ruthless. They wish they could stay home with the kids, and have a happy family life, but those days are gone.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lisa in WA said:


> submissive wives who are spanked by their husbands.


 That’s like defining marriage as vanilla wives who don’t want to be touched


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Has there been collusion with the Vulgarians?


There is a secret handshake, a wink, and a nod.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SLFarmMI said:


> Feminism is about being free, as a woman, to make your own choices and run your own life. It is about equal pay for equal work, voting rights, equal opportunity. It is about not being restricted to and forced into a particular role because of gender. It is about not being treated like you are a moron because of gender.


Thank you.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

robin416 said:


> He was with a large commercial construction company and worked away from home. So, it was make a honey do list on the weekend he was home, hire someone, or figure out how to do it myself. I liked working out how to do it myself.


My husband is a nurse, and at one point was working 60+ hours a week. I learned (and figured out, that's the best part) how to do things myself.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Irish Pixie said:


> My husband is a nurse, and at one point was working 60+ hours a week. I learned (and figured out, that's the best part) how to do things myself.


I've seen husbands complain about having to take care of a large yard on the weekend or having to paint a room with the wife who stays at home. My brain is screaming "what is wrong with her doing it?" 

Heck, I worked full time and still took care of everything outside and as you know, living in the country there's always stuff to do out there.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

robin416 said:


> I've seen husbands complain about having to take care of a large yard on the weekend or having to paint a room with the wife who stays at home. My brain is screaming "what is wrong with her doing it?"
> 
> Heck, I worked full time and still took care of everything outside and as you know, living in the country there's always stuff to do out there.


There is nothing wrong with either doing it. Why shouldn't they both be doing it?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

The "tradwife" revival is an example of women's rights. Women have the right to live the way they want, work or not, have children or not, take birth control without their husband's permission, get a bank loan, have a credit card, and any other thing that is possible now that wasn't in the 50/60s because of feminism and the women's rights movement.

They can enjoy the luxury of *choosing* that lifestyle because other women fought for that right.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> There is nothing wrong with either doing it. Why shouldn't they both be doing it?


Exactly. I loathe yard work (except for gardening), my husband enjoys it. He takes care of the yard. We both do chores, mostly along the lines of who loathes doing it.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> The "tradwife" revival .........
> They can enjoy the luxury of choosing that lifestyle because other women fought for that right.




Lol kinda a stretch there isn’t it ?
I’m pretty sure that choice has been available to them for a long long time


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

painterswife said:


> There is nothing wrong with either doing it. Why shouldn't they both be doing it?


I know. Right? 

But I will fess up that I'd rather be outside on the tractor than in the house with a mop in my hands.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> The "tradwife" revival is an example of women's rights. Women have the right to live the way they want, work or not, have children or not, take birth control without their husband's permission, get a bank loan, have a credit card, and any other thing that is possible now that wasn't in the 50/60s because of feminism and the women's rights movement.
> 
> They can enjoy the luxury of choosing that lifestyle because other women fought for that right.


It's not right, or wrong, in my opinion, I just don't think this is a good example of Women's Rights or Feminism in general.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

gleepish said:


> It's not right, or wrong, in my opinion, I just don't think this is a good example of Women's Rights or Feminism in general.


You have now entered an alternative universe where things are defined according to no laws or reason.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> You have now entered an alternative universe where things are defined according to no laws or reason.


I try not to be rude and insulting, but you seem to seek out some member's posts just to mock them. Do you enjoy being insulting and rude?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> I try not to be rude and insulting, but you seem to seek out some member's posts just to mock them. Do you enjoy being insulting and rude?


I was not mocking them


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

HDRider said:


> I think they are.


Maybe it was just a pink hat and not a copy of her undercarriage?


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> I was not mocking them


I didn't think you were mocking... I actually heard the theme to the Twilight Zone as I read your reply and it made me laugh.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Apparently the tradwife thing has another side.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/01/...s-women-alt-right.html?searchResultPosition=1


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

gleepish said:


> I didn't think you were mocking... I actually heard the theme to the Twilight Zone as I read your reply and it made me laugh.


I almost said Twilight Zone, but wanted to be more HT-centric, and original


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> submissive wives who are spanked by their husbands.



Where can I get me one of those?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Apparently the tradwife thing has another side.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/01/...s-women-alt-right.html?searchResultPosition=1


Everything is always about race. From your link
Over the past few years, dozens of YouTube and social media accounts have sprung up showcasing soft-spoken young white women who extol the virtues of staying at home, submitting to male leadership and bearing lots of children — being “traditional wives.” These accounts pepper their messages with scrapbook-style collections of 1950s advertising images showing glamorous mothers in lipstick and heels with happy families and beautiful, opulent homes. They give their videos titles like “Female Nature and Advice for Young Ladies,” “How I Homeschool” and “You Might be a Millennial Housewife If….”

But running alongside what could be mistaken for a peculiar style of mommy-vlogging is a virulent strain of white nationalism. One such advocate who calls herself “Wife With a Purpose” made international headlines last year when she issued something she titled “the white baby challenge.” Citing falling white birthrates in the West, she urged her followers to procreate. “I’ve made six!” she wrote. “Match or beat me!” Wife With a Purpose might be the most prominent and certainly most openly white supremacist of the women who call themselves tradwives, but she is not an anomaly: These accounts veer dizzyingly from Cosmo-style tips on pleasing your husband to racist musings about “ghetto music” to, on some occasions, calls to reassert their vision of the white race. The seemingly anachronistic way they dress is no accident. The deliberately hyperfeminine aesthetics are constructed precisely to mask the authoritarianism of their ideology.​


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I think that NYT article is based on fear of not letting a government agenda drive how you live.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I think that NYT article is based on fear of not letting a government agenda drive how you live.


Or it's more ugly from white supremacy misogynists and the women that love/serve them.


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## Meinecke (Jun 30, 2017)

A world like that would be so boring...i like that my wife always challenges me and i challenge her... 
Having a housewife waiting at home would be awful...less income, all burden on me and i would not be able to cook haha


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I think that NYT article is based on fear of not letting a government agenda drive how you live.


Maybe. I don’t know anyone who is a tradwife so I have no idea. Looks like it’s more associated with that kind of thing in the US. According to this anyway.
https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p080c4dw/-why-i-submit-to-my-husband-like-it-s-1959-

I did know a “surrendered” wife who I met at the gym about 17 years ago. Homeschooler, home churcher, pretty much arranged marriages for the older kids kind of gal. Husband was a bodyguard and traveled a lot.
We struck up a casual acquaintanceship and she eventually told me her gig. I was polite about it but that was apparently the wrong reaction because she came to work out toting a box full of tapes on how to be a submissive wife. She told me to pass them on when I was done and didn’t want them back so I pitched them into the dumpster and found a new time to work out.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Or it's more ugly from white supremacy misogynists and the women that love/serve them.


I expected you would see it that way. That is how you see everything.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I expected you would see it that way. That is how you see everything.


Do you feel I shouldn't have and express an opinion?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Or it's more ugly from white supremacy misogynists and the women that love/serve them.


So it's only white people?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> So it's only white people?


'Twas in the article that was referenced.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Cornhusker said:


> Where can I get me one of those?


Not at my house, that's fer sure!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Maybe. I don’t know anyone who is a tradwife so I have no idea. Looks like it’s more associated with that kind of thing in the US. According to this anyway.
> https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p080c4dw/-why-i-submit-to-my-husband-like-it-s-1959-
> 
> I did know a “surrendered” wife who I met at the gym about 17 years ago. Homeschooler, home churcher, pretty much arranged marriages for the older kids kind of gal. Husband was a bodyguard and traveled a lot.
> We struck up a casual acquaintanceship and she eventually told me her gig. I was polite about it but that was apparently the wrong reaction because she came to work out toting a box full of tapes on how to be a submissive wife. She told me to pass them on when I was done and didn’t want them back so I pitched them into the dumpster and found a new time to work out.


I agree the white supremacist angle is probably very American oriented, with our abundance of SJWs and race baiters.

Honestly, I find your perspective odd, if I am understanding you correctly. You seem to resent the idea of a traditional housewife on a philosophical, or academic level. It should be a choice made as freely as one of pursuing a career. A traditional housewife is a career choice. 

You don't know one single traditional housewife? You don't know one lady that has spent most of her time, caring for the nest, caring for the brood, as opposed to being more career oriented?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Or it's more ugly from white supremacy misogynists and the women that love/serve them.


How many white supremisists do you hang out with on a regular enough basis to know anything about them, their beliefs, feelings, how they treat their spouse?


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Im somewhere in the middle. I work part time. But i figure since i have the most time at home i run it. I handle all finances, shopping and most cleaning. I try to make dh life as easy as possible so he can work full time in a physically demanding job to allow for me to be home with our son. If he ever gets to the point that its possible i am home full time that would be ideal. I dont think it matters if its the man or woman that stays home. But i do think family life is muxh easier with one partner at home taking care of the domestic stuff and one focuses on career. But it only works if you both agree and are inclined to the respective postions.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Do you feel I shouldn't have and express an opinion?


You blame everything on white men. That is not an opinion, it is a bias.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I agree the white supremacist angle is probably very American oriented, with our abundance of SJWs and race baiters.
> 
> Honestly, I find your perspective odd, if I am understanding you correctly. You seem to resent the idea of a traditional housewife on a philosophical, or academic level. It should be a choice made as freely as one of pursuing a career. A traditional housewife is a career choice.
> 
> You don't know one single traditional housewife? You don't know one lady that has spent most of her time, caring for the nest, caring for the brood, as opposed to being more career oriented?


I know many women (including myself) who opted for more traditional roles in marriage, as in stay at home wives and mothers. They aren’t submissive to their husbands nor do they dress as 50’s housewives as “tradwives” appear to do. They are equal partners in marriage.

To me, Tradwives appear to be role playing for some underlying reason. Maybe sexual, maybe white supremacy, but i get a vibe that the tradwife thing is almost a sort of BDSM. Like so called domestic discipline and surrendered wives.
More of a kink than anything.

I don’t think women need a label, hashtag or movement to be SAHMs and wives. We’ve always been around.

I think you might have misunderstood me.


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## kotori (Nov 15, 2014)

Well it as a movement is kinda garbage I think because most of the ones I've heard are to the extreme that they think marital rape isn't a thing and that women shouldn’t be allowed to vote. In my opinion, that’s up there with the ‘if you don’t have kids you shouldn’t be able to vote’ train of thought.


Less on the movement and more on the surface btis about the traditional stay at home, I’m all for it. You want to stay home and be feminine as all get out and throw dinner parties that make your entire neighborhood jealous? That’s amazing. You feel pressured into doing it or realize you don’t like it but can’t stop because your husband has financial control over you? Way less amazing. Same as looking for other jobs when employed, I feel that a woman should be able to move in and out of home-making as wanted. Not to say it will be entirely without consequence, since finances would shift each time, but it should always be an option.


That goes for men too. They should feel just as free to stay at home instead of working as their wives or spouses. Obviously, this isn’t a perfect world where you can always get by with just one breadwinner, but the most important part here is open dialogue where each party feels free to discuss and come to an agreement about what they want and what is possible.


That turned into a bit of a rant, apologies =)


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> 'Twas in the article that was referenced.


I searched the original article, and I couldn't find anything about white supremacy.
In fact, I did a search for the word "white" and the only results were in side ads and articles about white dresses and other unrelated things.
I don't mean to sound stupid, but could you show me where it talks about white supremacy or misogynists?
I've never heard of "tradwife" until today.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> I searched the original article, and I couldn't find anything about white supremacy.
> In fact, I did a search for the word "white" and the only results were in side ads and articles about white dresses and other unrelated things.
> I don't mean to sound stupid, but could you show me where it talks about white supremacy or misogynists?
> I've never heard of "tradwife" until today.


This article is the one I referenced: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/01/...s-women-alt-right.html?searchResultPosition=1


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Again, do you feel I shouldn't have and express an opinion? Just as you did with this:


HDRider said:


> You blame everything on white men. That is not an opinion, it is a bias.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> I searched the original article, and I couldn't find anything about white supremacy.


And you won't. "White Supremist" is the new Leftist buzz word for everything that the Left doesn't like. It is the term formally known as "racist". There were even some black white supremacists at the Va. 2A protest.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> This article is the one I referenced: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/01/...s-women-alt-right.html?searchResultPosition=1


Thanks for the link.
That was a pretty partisan piece listed as opinion, and I'm pretty sure short on facts and long on exaggeration.
I guess if someone believes that stuff they will see evil white misogynists everywhere.
I don't see a problem with people wanting to get back to traditional family structure.
Not everything is political\racist\nazi\evil, sometimes it's just people making their own choices


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> And you won't. "White Supremist" is the new Leftist buzz word for everything that the Left doesn't like. It is the term formally known as "racist". There were even some black white supremacists at the Va. 2A protest.


not in the OP. It’s from a British paper. The buzz is, that the white supremacy angle is more of an American thing. And whether or not that’s true, you will find a good bit if you plug in tradwife and “white supremacy” into the google machine. 
I’m sure the whole WS thing is overblown by the left, but are you trying to say that there aren’t any white supremacists who are tradwives, or that there aren’t any actual white supremacists?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> not in the OP. It’s from a British paper. The buzz is, that the white supremacy angle is more of an American thing. And whether or not that’s true, you will find a good bit if you plug in tradwife and “white supremacy” into the google machine.
> I’m sure the whole WS thing is overblown by the left, but are you trying to say that there aren’t any white supremacists who are tradwives, or that there aren’t any actual white supremacists?


I'm quite sure we do have a very small minority of white supremacists in this country, along with their wives. The left however would have us beleive that all "conservatives" are racist wife beaters. Simply not true.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I'm quite sure we do have a very small minority of white supremacists in this country, along with their wives. The left however would have us beleive that all "conservatives" are racist wife beaters. Simply not true.


Kind of like the right makes you think that the left believes all conservatives are racist wife beaters?
One generalization about another generalization seems kind of silly.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> Kind of like the right makes you think that the left believes all conservatives are racist wife beaters?
> One generalization about another generalization seems kind of silly.


Let's just say the ones on the left seem to be the noisy ones. Or maybe I'm gotten too sensitive in my old age but it's hard to hear anyone on the left speak more than a few sentences without calling conservatives racist or mysogynists these days.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Lisa in WA said:


> not in the OP. It’s from a British paper. The buzz is, that the white supremacy angle is more of an American thing. And whether or not that’s true, you will find a good bit if you plug in tradwife and “white supremacy” into the google machine.
> I’m sure the whole WS thing is overblown by the left, but are you trying to say that there aren’t any white supremacists who are tradwives, or that there aren’t any actual white supremacists?


Not at all. It is kind of like standing in Wyoming, hearing hoofbeats and thinking "zebras" instead of "horses". Sure, zebras exist, but, what is more likely in the scenario that I put forth?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Let's just say the ones on the left seem to be the noisy ones. Or maybe I'm gotten too sensitive in my old age but it's hard to hear anyone on the left speak more than a few sentences without calling conservatives racist or mysogynists these days.


I think it’s all a matter of perspective. If you disagree with something, it’s bound to be noisier or more abrasive.
I get what you’re saying but people on the left are continuously being called snowflakes, etc.
Everyone is very entrenched in their positions.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> Not at all. It is kind of like standing in Wyoming, hearing hoofbeats and thinking "zebras" instead of "horses". Sure, zebras exist, but, what is more likely in the scenario that I put forth?


well, if they are interviewing a woman who says she is a tradwife and a white supremacist, would you tend to believe her...or think she’s a horse regardless of what she is telling you?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> I think it’s all a matter of perspective. If you disagree with something, it’s bound to be noisier or more abrasive.
> I get what you’re saying but people on the left are continuously being called snowflakes, etc.
> Everyone is very entrenched in their positions.


I don't call anyone a snowflake. Snow flakes tend to be quiet, harmless and actually kinda nice. Cowards, and traitors wishing to destroy our country "by any means necessary" on the other hand....


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Lisa in WA said:


> well, if they are interviewing a woman who says she is a tradwife and a white supremacist, would you tend to believe her...or think she’s a horse regardless of what she is telling you?


I wouldn't believe it unless I heard her say it. Nothing written can be trusted. Even if SHE was I wouldn't stereotype an entire group on the actions of one.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> I wouldn't believe it unless I heard her say it. Nothing written can be trusted.


Then there is no point in discussion because everything here is written.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I don't call anyone a snowflake. Snow flakes tend to be quiet, harmless and actually kinda nice. Cowards, and traitors wishing to destroy our country "by any means necessary" on the other hand....


okay...then no point in my responding since you’re entrenched in your position.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Lisa in WA said:


> Then there is no point in discussion because everything here is written.


No, sometimes videos are provided. I would hope that you take everything here with a big ole shaker full of salt.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> No, sometimes videos are provided. I would hope that you take everything here with a big ole shaker full of salt.


Oh yeah, I do. I know people lie. Big time.

there was a video but it was removed. Don’t know why.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> okay...then no point in my responding since you’re entrenched in your position.


And you know, deep down, that I'm correct.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> I know many women (including myself) who opted for more traditional roles in marriage, as in stay at home wives and mothers. They aren’t submissive to their husbands nor do they dress as 50’s housewives as “tradwives” appear to do. They are equal partners in marriage.
> 
> To me, Tradwives appear to be role playing for some underlying reason. Maybe sexual, maybe white supremacy, but i get a vibe that the tradwife thing is almost a sort of BDSM. Like so called domestic discipline and surrendered wives.
> More of a kink than anything.
> ...


I did misunderstand you, but now you have added another wrinkle. To equate a woman choosing to dress and act a certain way resembling the 50's era as BDSM is a little odd.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I did misunderstand you, but now you have added another wrinkle. To equate a woman choosing to dress and act a certain way resembling the 50's era as BDSM is a little odd.


I wasn’t saying that woman who dresses a certain way is indulging in BDSM...I’m saying the whole package seems like it is to me. The whole submission thing. I’ve found other things via google that confirm that but can’t link to them here.

ETA: well...if a woman dresses in leather and chains and carries a whip, I’ll probably think she’s into bondage.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> And you know, deep down, that I'm correct.


I can see why you’d indulge in that fantasy.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Again, do you feel I shouldn't have and express an opinion? Just as you did with this:


You should have and express whatever you want. It just gets old with the white man being the excuse for everything wrong in your world.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> I wasn’t saying that woman who dresses a certain way is indulging in BDSM...I’m saying the whole package seems like it is to me. The whole submission thing. I’ve found other things via google that confirm that but can’t link to them here.
> 
> ETA: well...if a woman dresses in leather and chains and carries a whip, I’ll probably think she’s into bondage.


I missed the leather and chains, but honestly, you never know what you might get searching for some things


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> You should have and express whatever you want. It just gets old with the white man being the excuse for everything wrong in your world.


You do know of course that white women are also the reason for the wrongs in the world?
The whole Karen, Becky and Janet thing is a form of racism. Even though it’s said that it’s not racism if it’s against whites.
I’m against all forms of racism. But nothings going to change if we allow it to be used against another group of people instead of trying to abolish it altogether.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> You do know of course that white women are also the reason for the wrongs in the world?
> The whole Karen and Janet thing is a form of racism. Even though it’s said that it’s not racism if it’s against whites.


I don't know the "Karen and Janet thing".


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I don't know the "Karen and Janet thing".


I think it might have started with the outraged white woman the calling cops on a black family legally barbecuing in a park. She was reviled on social media and dubbed, Barbecue Becky. There were a bunch of videos of various women calling the cops on black people for various ridiculous things and they all received nicknames associated with white women. Like Karen, Janet, etc.
from there it’s taken off into various memes on the left. A tag for well off, entitled white women.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> I think it might have started with the outraged white woman the calling cops on a black family legally barbecuing in a park. She was reviled on social media and dubbed, Barbecue Becky. There were a bunch of videos of various women calling the cops on black people for various ridiculous things and they all received nicknames associated with white women. Like Karen, Janet, etc.
> from there it’s taken off into various memes on the left. A tag for well off, entitled white women.


Another way to divide. I see this tradwife thing as a divider too. We keep finding new and creative ways to drive ourselves into smaller and smaller groups at war with each other.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/words-were-watching-becky
same thing with Karen, Janet, Susan, etc.

On a sunny California Sunday in late April 2018, a white woman in Oakland called police because a few black people gathered at Lake Merritt for a barbecue were using a charcoal grill in the area designated for non-charcoal grills. In the days following the viral YouTube video of the woman's two-hour wait for a police response, she came to be known as "BBQ Becky." Her given name is not Becky or anything related to Becky. The nickname was not, however, solely alliterative. 

These days, Becky is increasingly functioning as an epithet, and being used especially to refer to a white woman who is ignorant of both her privilege and her prejudice.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Pretty good example here. 


https://medium.com/@LeciaMichelle/i...ren-withdrew-her-ally-membership-cb5dd3422465


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Not my words but the correct definitions.

Masculism may variously refer to advocacy of the rights or needs of men and boys; and the adherence to or promotion of attributes (opinions, values, attitudes, habits) regarded as typical of men and boys.

Feminism is a range of social movements, political movements and ideologies that aim to define, establish, and achieve the political, economic, personal, and social equality of the sexes. Feminism incorporates the position that societies prioritize the male point of view, and that women are treated unfairly within those societies. Efforts to change that include fighting gender stereotypes and seeking to establish educational and professional opportunities for women that are equal to those for men.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

HDRider said:


> You don't know one single traditional housewife? You don't know one lady that has spent most of her time, caring for the nest, caring for the brood, as opposed to being more career oriented?


I was raised by a "traditional housewife" but she would not have wanted to identify with the "tradwife" movement. Back when my grandma was a young woman, women could not work in many jobs. If they were lucky enough to hold the same job as a man, the woman was paid quite a bit less. She never held a real paying job but my grandma worked very hard all the years I knew her. We lived on a farm, grandpa had a full time job off the farm. Grandma had over 100 chickens and made some money selling eggs and butchered (occasionally live) chickens. She grew a huge garden and processed the food that garden produced. She made jams and jellies, meals, desserts and treats, all from scratch. Cared for a total of 8 children, tended house, made clothing, mended socks, wrapped butchered cows and pigs, cared for her husband and did farm hand work when necessary. She worked more than any person I have ever known. Back then it was simply called being a farm wife. Women who held that title were respected and treasured. She never wore pearl necklaces or make-up because she didn't have time for such nonsense. Besides, jewelry and made-up faces would be a mess by the end of the day.

I miss her terribly.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> You don't know one single traditional housewife? You don't know one lady that has spent most of her time, caring for the nest, caring for the brood, as opposed to being more career oriented?


Many of the ones I've know have regretted that choice when their marriage goes bad or something happens to the spouse and they have no skills to fall back on.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Many of the ones I've know have regretted that choice when their marriage goes bad or something happens to the spouse and they have no skills to fall back on.


It IS a vulnerable feeling. I was a marketing analyst way back in the 80’s but my skills are way out of date and useless at this point. My husband and I made sure I was in very good financial shape if something happens but it’s a hard topic to broach. No one wants to think their marriage might go south or their partner might die unexpectedly.

I harped one my daughters about having a career and experience before having kids and facing that choice. So far I’m 50 percent successful. The other one hasn’t started her career yet really.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Danaus29 said:


> I was raised by a "traditional housewife" but she would not have wanted to identify with the "tradwife" movement. Back when my grandma was a young woman, women could not work in many jobs. If they were lucky enough to hold the same job as a man, the woman was paid quite a bit less. She never held a real paying job but my grandma worked very hard all the years I knew her. We lived on a farm, grandpa had a full time job off the farm. Grandma had over 100 chickens and made some money selling eggs and butchered (occasionally live) chickens. She grew a huge garden and processed the food that garden produced. She made jams and jellies, meals, desserts and treats, all from scratch. Cared for a total of 8 children, tended house, made clothing, mended socks, wrapped butchered cows and pigs, cared for her husband and did farm hand work when necessary. She worked more than any person I have ever known. Back then it was simply called being a farm wife. Women who held that title were respected and treasured. She never wore pearl necklaces or make-up because she didn't have time for such nonsense. Besides, jewelry and made-up faces would be a mess by the end of the day.
> 
> I miss her terribly.


I've got the greatest respect for women like your grandmother. Most women who were married to a working farm, this was the life they led. Women in suburban households rarely see the challenges your grandmother faced and rarely got the satisfaction of seeing hard work benefitting the farm.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> I agree the white supremacist angle is probably very American oriented


I think the Germans started that movement.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> Another way to divide. I see this tradwife thing as a divider too. We keep finding new and creative ways to drive ourselves into smaller and smaller groups at war with each other.


amen. who cares what other people do in their relationships. who cares.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> amen. who cares what other people do in their relationships. who cares.


This has always been a pretty open place. I remember a poster way back who practiced Gorean lifestyle.. I had to look that one up.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> I remember a poster way back who practiced Gorean


They worshiped Al Gore?
(I'm scared to look it up. It might offend my sensitivities.)


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They worshiped Al Gore?
> (I'm scared to look it up. It might offend my sensitivities.)


You’ll have to look that one up. Based on books about Gor.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Lisa in WA said:


> This has always been a pretty open place. I remember a poster way back who practiced Gorean lifestyle.. I had to look that one up.


not sure why you quoted me...


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> not sure why you quoted me...


Because you said that you didn’t care what other people did in their relationships. HT has always been live and let live about that kind of thing. I was agreeing with you.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Lisa in WA said:


> Because you said that you didn’t care what other people did in their relationships. HT has always been live and let live about that kind of thing. I was agreeing with you.


ahhh I get it now. So I fit right in with not caring.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> ahhh I get it now. So I fit right in with not caring.


Exactly.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

CKelly78z said:


> My wife, and her best friend both believe that a harkening back to 50s family values would be a good thing, where everyone seemed to be happier knowing what role they played. The Women's Lib movement caused an upheaval in traditional values, but now, women are starting to see that the business world is cut throat, and ruthless. They wish they could stay home with the kids, and have a happy family life, but those days are gone.


I have many friends that enjoy the good life of staying home and raising their children the way they want. Some take part-time jobs at the local school so they can be home most of the time to take care of home work. I know one really nice lady that has 6 kids and she also cleans houses for folks in the movie business. Gets top pay and has a nice home. Her husband has his own business making outdoor camping equipment, like tents etc. My cousin here in small town i live close to has a gun business and pawn shop combined. She does have the old family farm and her husband raises horses. My niece in Springfield,Mo. has a beauty shop now for 15 years makes very good income. In H.S. she had a child at a very young age and quit H.S. and went to a local beauty college. Her son never got married and was a bartender most of his life. He got tired of that and moved back home with his Mother. Well she opened a cocktail lounge and combined it with with her beauty shop and let her son run it. The ladies can enjoy a drink before and after they have their hair done. She opened that new shop about 4 years ago and it is really a going business. All her friends told her it wouldn't work. 
All my kids are married and make good living and have their own homes and business. 
Stay at home Mothers can have a great family and stay at home and also work. Nothing is free in life a person has to work at it no matter what they do. I could go on and on about all the ladies i know that stay at home and raise their kids and also go on and has a good job and life after the kids grow-up. My wife went back to teaching after our kids grew up. She didn't have to as we owned quite a bit of property at that time. Also besides teaching she got a bunch of rabbits for a side business. 

There is a diff. between WLM and Radical Feminism. The WLM has been a good thing in the U.S.A. It has created many new jobs for Ladies in all fields of employment and also in everyday life. As far as Feminism etc. it would take a large book to explain the different between it and the WLM movement. Don't get me wrong i will not down Feminism i know quite a few.


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## dyrne (Feb 22, 2015)

In the end I don't see anything but this lifestyle with our current one seen as something of a tragic aberration. After all the only groups breeding at more than replacement rates are those with a traditional lifestyle. What's kind of amusing is that the US also has this trend on a much more massive scale... we call them the Amish. They've doubled in size every 20 years to their current population of 250,000. They are set in the next 20 years to double again, and so on. They're the most dramatic example but the trend holds true across homes in the US and Europe. Religious and traditional equals more children which in the end settles any argument as your detractors are for the most part... relegated to history.

One article on the subject "how long until we're all amish". 
https://medium.com/migration-issues/how-long-until-were-all-amish-268e3d0de87


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

dyrne said:


> In the end I don't see anything but this lifestyle with our current one seen as something of a tragic aberration. After all the only groups breeding at more than replacement rates are those with a traditional lifestyle. What's kind of amusing is that the US also has this trend on a much more massive scale... we call them the Amish. They've doubled in size every 20 years to their current population of 250,000. They are set in the next 20 years to double again, and so on. They're the most dramatic example but the trend holds true across homes in the US and Europe. Religious and traditional equals more children which in the end settles any argument as your detractors are for the most part... relegated to history.
> 
> One article on the subject "how long until we're all amish".
> https://medium.com/migration-issues/how-long-until-were-all-amish-268e3d0de87


That was an interesting read! Thanks for sharing.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Danaus29 said:


> I was raised by a "traditional housewife" but she would not have wanted to identify with the "tradwife" movement. Back when my grandma was a young woman, women could not work in many jobs. If they were lucky enough to hold the same job as a man, the woman was paid quite a bit less. She never held a real paying job but my grandma worked very hard all the years I knew her. We lived on a farm, grandpa had a full time job off the farm. Grandma had over 100 chickens and made some money selling eggs and butchered (occasionally live) chickens. She grew a huge garden and processed the food that garden produced. She made jams and jellies, meals, desserts and treats, all from scratch. Cared for a total of 8 children, tended house, made clothing, mended socks, wrapped butchered cows and pigs, cared for her husband and did farm hand work when necessary. She worked more than any person I have ever known. Back then it was simply called being a farm wife. Women who held that title were respected and treasured. She never wore pearl necklaces or make-up because she didn't have time for such nonsense. Besides, jewelry and made-up faces would be a mess by the end of the day.
> 
> I miss her terribly.


I had a gran like that too, but she didn't raise me. I wish she had...

My mother lived the "trad" lifestyle in the 50/60/70/80s and she was dead in 1983- wasn't allowed a job, no credit card, no birth control (even tho my brother almost killed her), and my father controlled every cent in the house. She was given an "allowance" for groceries. He cheated on her with multiple women and I have half siblings all over NY state. She had no way to support herself and two kids, and (back then) he didn't have to pay child support unless he felt like it.

Nope, not for me. Everything we have ever owned was in both our names, still is. We're partners in life.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

dyrne said:


> In the end I don't see anything but this lifestyle with our current one seen as something of a tragic aberration. After all the only groups breeding at more than replacement rates are those with a traditional lifestyle. What's kind of amusing is that the US also has this trend on a much more massive scale... we call them the Amish. They've doubled in size every 20 years to their current population of 250,000. They are set in the next 20 years to double again, and so on. They're the most dramatic example but the trend holds true across homes in the US and Europe. Religious and traditional equals more children which in the end settles any argument as your detractors are for the most part... relegated to history.
> 
> One article on the subject "how long until we're all amish".
> https://medium.com/migration-issues/how-long-until-were-all-amish-268e3d0de87





Irish Pixie said:


> I had a gran like that too, but she didn't raise me. I wish she had...
> 
> My mother lived the "trad" lifestyle in the 50/60/70/80s and she was dead in 1983- wasn't allowed a job, no credit card, no birth control (even tho my brother almost killed her), and my father controlled every cent in the house. She was given an "allowance" for groceries. He cheated on her with multiple women and I have half siblings all over NY state. She had no way to support herself and two kids, and (back then) he didn't have to pay child support unless he felt like it.
> 
> Nope, not for me. Everything we have ever owned was in both our names, still is. We're partners in life.


I do quite a bit of business with the Amish and Mennonite folks. I keep them in breeding stock. Mainly Hogs. The Amish very hard working folks and do not drive autos. They do take care of their folks if someone passes on. The Mennonite folks do drive mostly new autos. I do a lot of business with them also. They pay with cash for any stock i sell them. The Mennonite ladies here do run a few stores and sell a lot of home grown veg. etc. The Breeding stock i sell them is the very best. Cash and carry is what i like Single ladies try to get me to join their Church.  One friend i do business with has a butcher shop. Take two 500 lb. butcher Hogs to him to butcher for myself and his family. One Hog for me and one for them. These folks are very nice. I also trade some work with them. I plow up a few gardens for them in the Spring. That way i get a supply of fresh veg. Eggs, and fruit. Also bit of canned peaches they give me. The women do most of their shopping in town. Sometimes on Sat. some of the men will bring their families to Walmart to shop. Most of the men here have sawmills and build pallets and other rough lumber products. They have a very simple life style and stay mostly to their own kind. The women are mostly stay at home housewives.


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

dyrne said:


> In the end I don't see anything but this lifestyle with our current one seen as something of a tragic aberration. After all the only groups breeding at more than replacement rates are those with a traditional lifestyle. What's kind of amusing is that the US also has this trend on a much more massive scale... we call them the Amish. They've doubled in size every 20 years to their current population of 250,000. They are set in the next 20 years to double again, and so on. They're the most dramatic example but the trend holds true across homes in the US and Europe. Religious and traditional equals more children which in the end settles any argument as your detractors are for the most part... relegated to history.
> 
> One article on the subject "how long until we're all amish".
> https://medium.com/migration-issues/how-long-until-were-all-amish-268e3d0de87


Ive always wanted to be amish...in theory. But i really need my modern conveniences....and doctors.


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> I had a gran like that too, but she didn't raise me. I wish she had...
> 
> My mother lived the "trad" lifestyle in the 50/60/70/80s and she was dead in 1983- wasn't allowed a job, no credit card, no birth control (even tho my brother almost killed her), and my father controlled every cent in the house. She was given an "allowance" for groceries. He cheated on her with multiple women and I have half siblings all over NY state. She had no way to support herself and two kids, and (back then) he didn't have to pay child support unless he felt like it.
> 
> Nope, not for me. Everything we have ever owned was in both our names, still is. We're partners in life.


Yeah it probably doesn't work if you have a terrible husband. Im sorry she had to endure his abuse.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> I had a gran like that too, but she didn't raise me. I wish she had...
> 
> My mother lived the "trad" lifestyle in the 50/60/70/80s and she was dead in 1983- wasn't allowed a job, no credit card, no birth control (even tho my brother almost killed her), and my father controlled every cent in the house. She was given an "allowance" for groceries. He cheated on her with multiple women and I have half siblings all over NY state. She had no way to support herself and two kids, and (back then) he didn't have to pay child support unless he felt like it.
> 
> Nope, not for me. Everything we have ever owned was in both our names, still is. We're partners in life.


I'm sorry about your mom. That's the kind of life several of my mom's friends or their mothers had lived (maybe not the cheating part, that's one of those things you don't ask friends). My grandma raised her girls to be independent and only 1 didn't have a "real" job, but she ran a small business for many years.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> *https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7899355/What-tradwife-trend-sweping-households.html*
> 
> *The 'tradwife' movement leading the backlash against feminism: Submitting to your husband like it's the '50s is the new trend sweeping UK households (and you can even do a training course in 'perfect femininity)*
> 
> ...


Good.

The kind of stuff you see today, my grandmother in the old country would have a field day chasing people down with her broom, whacking them and scolding them.

Whatever was good enough for my grandparents is good enough for me.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

I don't need or want a tradwife as characterized earlier. I need what I have, someone to tell me when I am being a dumba** when I am being a dumba**. I believe she is a traditional wife.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

I spend my day cooking,cleaning and taking care of the kids but I sure as heck am not submissive


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

My husband and I are a team. We each do what we do best and it just happens to be something the other is not good at so it works out perfect. We look out for each other, listen to each other, respect each other, and never try to boss or tell the other what they should do. I had a career and we moved several times because of it. He had a job where he could easily move with me so it worked. I've always been very independent and consider myself a feminist but love that he has been my protector and yes he opens the doors for me. When we married 45 years ago we made a promise not to do something we would not want the other doing and for the most part we haven't. He knew better though than to ever tell me I could not do something or I would have done it by midnight! He didn't need to because I love and respect him. That's the only control he's ever had on me, that which I volunteer to give him.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

kotori said:


> Well it as a movement is kinda garbage I think because most of the ones I've heard are to the extreme that they think marital rape isn't a thing and that women shouldn’t be allowed to vote. ......
> 
> That turned into a bit of a rant, apologies =)


 The reason it sounds like that is because it’s not a story in the news if you can’t focus on something salacious and Sexual.
Most traditional wives live very calm normal lives.
There’s just nothing there to interesting news unless they bring up extreme domestic discipline or the extreme outlooks


Lisa in WA said:


> ETA: well...if a woman dresses in leather and chains and carries a whip, I’ll probably think she’s into bondage.


 Why ? That just doesn’t make any sense.


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## brosil (Dec 15, 2003)

dmm1976 said:


> Ive always wanted to be amish...in theory. But i really need my modern conveniences....and doctors.


 Actually, they tend to use a lot of advanced medicine as well as home remedies. They've even converted some of the doctors into using their Burn and Wound Salve. Apparently, it works. As for modern conveniences, it's amazing what you can do with hand cranks and horsepower. Horse Progress Days will be at Mt. Hope, Ohio this year on the 3rd and 4th of July. I recommend it.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

georger said:


> Whatever was good enough for my grandparents is good enough for me.


That is some serious dark ages thinking there


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

deleted, too much drift


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## tracylee (Jun 29, 2013)

I am a stay at home. I homeschooled my girls and homeschool 2 grandchildren. I do all the morning milking and feeding, I do all the housekeeping, all the cooking, laundry, sewing, my own schooling. I own and wear only dresses, and never cut my hair. I don't own a purse and have no need for my own personal money. Yes, my husband's needs always come first. I cook every single one of his meals, fix his lunch for work every single day, make his coffee and start his truck every morning. 
I chose this way, I LOVE this way. It's not for everyone and I don't expect every women to agree with it but just for me I don't support feminism and want no part of it.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

tracylee said:


> I am a stay at home. I homeschooled my girls and homeschool 2 grandchildren. I do all the morning milking and feeding, I do all the housekeeping, all the cooking, laundry, sewing, my own schooling. I own and wear only dresses, and never cut my hair. I don't own a purse and have no need for my own personal money. Yes, my husband's needs always come first. I cook every single one of his meals, fix his lunch for work every single day, make his coffee and start his truck every morning.
> I chose this way, I LOVE this way. It's not for everyone and I don't expect every women to agree with it but just for me I don't support feminism and want no part of it.


To each their own! I just wanted to say your husband is a very lucky man! I love taking care of my family's needs and being "domestic" but where we differ is I also like to be "one of the guys" shooting guns,fishing,hunting and wheeling. Its what makes each person happy that matters


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

tracylee said:


> I am a stay at home. I homeschooled my girls and homeschool 2 grandchildren. I do all the morning milking and feeding, I do all the housekeeping, all the cooking, laundry, sewing, my own schooling. I own and wear only dresses, and never cut my hair. I don't own a purse and have no need for my own personal money. Yes, my husband's needs always come first. I cook every single one of his meals, fix his lunch for work every single day, make his coffee and start his truck every morning.
> I chose this way, I LOVE this way. It's not for everyone and I don't expect every women to agree with it but just for me I don't support feminism and want no part of it.


God bless you and your contentment


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## tracylee (Jun 29, 2013)

Oregon1986 said:


> To each their own! I just wanted to say your husband is a very lucky man! I love taking care of my family's needs and being "domestic" but where we differ is I also like to be "one of the guys" shooting guns,fishing,hunting and wheeling. Its what makes each person happy that matters


I love shooting guns! My husband requires that I know how to care for and shoot guns and we do a lot of fishing together. My husband has also taught me to work on vehicles and even taught me to tear down motors and transmission when we were younger.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

tracylee said:


> I love shooting guns! My husband requires that I know how to care for and shoot guns and we do a lot of fishing together. My husband has also taught me to work on vehicles and even taught me to tear down motors and transmission when we were younger.


That is great!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

tracylee said:


> I am a stay at home. I homeschooled my girls and homeschool 2 grandchildren. I do all the morning milking and feeding, I do all the housekeeping, all the cooking, laundry, sewing, my own schooling. I own and wear only dresses, and never cut my hair. I don't own a purse and have no need for my own personal money. Yes, my husband's needs always come first. I cook every single one of his meals, fix his lunch for work every single day, make his coffee and start his truck every morning.
> I chose this way, I LOVE this way. It's not for everyone and I don't expect every women to agree with it but just for me I don't support feminism and want no part of it.


It's great that your lifestyle leaves you content and fulfilled and I really like that you understand that works for one woman may not work for all. 

It would be so great if women would simply support each other's choices yet so many times I hear stay at home speaking unkindly about working moms and working moms speaking the same way about stay at home moms.

It's hard to convince the rest of humanity to respect our choices when we don't respect each other.


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## tracylee (Jun 29, 2013)

wr said:


> It's great that your lifestyle leaves you content and fulfilled and I really like that you understand that works for one woman may not work for all.
> 
> It would be so great if women would simply support each other's choices yet so many times I hear stay at home speaking unkindly about working moms and working moms speaking the same way about stay at home moms.
> 
> It's hard to convince the rest of humanity to respect our choices when we don't respect each other.


Two things I can't stand are women who tear down their men and women who tear down each other. If women uplifted each other we would have better marriages, better mother's and better relationships. Our differences are what makes each one beautiful.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

tracylee said:


> Two things I can't stand are women who tear down their men and women who tear down each other. If women uplifted each other we would have better marriages, better mother's and better relationships. Our differences are what makes each one beautiful.


Well said


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> It's great that your lifestyle leaves you content and fulfilled and I really like that you understand that works for one woman may not work for all.
> 
> It would be so great if women would simply support each other's choices yet so many times I hear stay at home speaking unkindly about working moms and working moms speaking the same way about stay at home moms.
> 
> It's hard to convince the rest of humanity to respect our choices when we don't respect each other.


Name one group that does not talk down to, or try to tear down another.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I think the article itself was meant to pit women against each other. Feminism against traditional lifestyles when feminism is just fighting for the right to choose your own lifestyle.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wr said:


> It's great that your lifestyle leaves you content and fulfilled and I really like that you understand that works for one woman may not work for all.
> 
> It would be so great if women would simply support each other's choices yet so many times I hear stay at home speaking unkindly about working moms and working moms speaking the same way about stay at home moms.
> 
> It's hard to convince the rest of humanity to respect our choices when we don't respect each other.


That’s the truth. and women who choose not to have children being criticized for their choices and them criticizing those of us who did choose to have kids.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> I think the article itself was meant to pit women against each other. Feminism against traditional lifestyles when feminism is just fighting for the right to choose your own lifestyle.


The virtuous against the unwashed


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> I think the article itself was meant to pit women against each other. Feminism against traditional lifestyles when feminism is just fighting for the right to choose your own lifestyle.


There is plenty of fighting among feminists too. Many feminists don’t want penis bearing people intruding on safe places for women and then they are vilified as TERFS and threatened.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Name one group that does not talk down to, or try to tear down another.


I can’t think of one. It’s the human condition.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

dmm1976 said:


> Ive always wanted to be amish...in theory. But i really need my modern conveniences....and doctors.


I was in Kentucky a couple of years back and saw several Amish buggies parked outside a brand new modern hospital. They are quick to use modern medicine if need be and the community pitches in (voluntarily) to pay the bills of other community members.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> I think the article itself was meant to pit women against each other. Feminism against traditional lifestyles when feminism is just fighting for the right to choose your own lifestyle.


I agree. And there are extremists on both sides, who don't represent either traditionalist or the feminist.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> I can’t think of one. It’s the human condition.


And we are very, very good at it. I think we are improving that skill faster than any other.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> I agree. And there are extremists on both sides, who don't represent either traditionalist or the feminist.


Nice labels


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Nice labels


Thanks.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> Name one group that does not talk down to, or try to tear down another.


I'm thinking hard and not coming up with any at the moment.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> I'm thinking hard and not coming up with any at the moment.


Sad isn't it?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HDRider said:


> Name one group that does not talk down to, or try to tear down another.


There are people that do that but I don’t think there’s enough of them to be a group........


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Sad isn't it?


Buddhists...like real ones not westernized ones.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

dmm1976 said:


> Buddhists...like real ones not westernized ones.


I have known only a few Buddhist, and the ones I really knew were westerners. 

I might concede the most devout Buddhist may make every effort to not speak ill of others, but I expect they have to work at it.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

dmm1976 said:


> Buddhists...like real ones not westernized ones.


the Dalai Lama apparently has catty things to say about unattractive women. Among others.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/27/world/dalai-lama-female-successor-europe-trump-bbc-trnd/index.html


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> the Dalai Lama apparently has catty things to say about unattractive women. Among others.
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/27/world/dalai-lama-female-successor-europe-trump-bbc-trnd/index.html


My last illusion shattered into a million little pieces.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

My grandparents were real Buddhists from Japan. They were human and said bad things about others.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> My grandparents were real Buddhists from Japan. They were human and said bad things about others.


Is Buddhism a religion in the same sense as Christianity or Islam?

Can Christian also be a Buddhists?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Farmerga said:


> I was in Kentucky a couple of years back and saw several Amish buggies parked outside a brand new modern hospital. They are quick to use modern medicine if need be and the community pitches in (voluntarily) to pay the bills of other community members.


The last I heard there were about a quarter million amish with expectations that number would double in the next 20 years.
I don't believe that includes Mennonites, etc.
I deal with the amish quite a bit, and know of a few folks that have converted.
It is a dedicated lifestyle.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

If the Amish did become a majority it seems like it would spell trouble for our military. Its nice to be pacifistic if you have other people defending the country.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Big hit in taxes and revenue for firearms, vehicles, gas taxes, utility corps, big pharma, etc.


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

Made it through thread,a few comments.

Somehow it is demeaning to submit to husband to get what you want, but empowering to have a career and submit to bosses, customers, shareholders, etc to get what you want.

And it is also not demeaning when men work nasty, deadly jobs and hand over their paycheck to their wife?

My brother has septic business and has had pumps blow up getting feces in his face.

My logging buddy was killed by tree falling on him. Feminists should be marching for equality - equal right to die and suffer, but they cherry pick.

No matter how good they have it, feminists will be marching for “equality”. Because there is good money in the victim industry.

As Cassie Jaye explains, despite abuse between men and women being about equal, there are about 2000 women’s shelters in the US, and one for men.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

DJ in WA said:


> Made it through thread,a few comments.
> 
> Somehow it is demeaning to submit to husband to get what you want, but empowering to have a career and submit to bosses, customers, shareholders, etc to get what you want.
> 
> ...



It’s like you read a whole different thread than I did.


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

BTW, there are always exceptions, but given millions of years of survival, it should be obvious that most women want children and family over careers.

But feminists have done a great job of convincing women otherwise.

Suzanne Venker includes this as one of the bigger lies of feminism.

https://www.suzannevenker.com/feminism/4-feminist-lies-that-are-making-women-miserable/


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

There are truths and there are absolutes.
The modern term of "gaslighting" is one of the methods used to convince people that up is down, in spite of their own sensibilities.
It applies to most everything.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> It’s like you read a whole different thread than I did.


No, it illustrate how two different people can come to very different conclusions. It hinges on the thing we are discussing in another thread, how our bias overrides or controls how we decide something.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> There are truths and there are absolutes.
> The modern term of "gaslighting" is one of the methods used to convince people that up is down, in spite of their own sensibilities.
> It applies to most everything.


And, sadly, it works very well


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

One more thought before I hit the road. Feminists want the right to choose family or career but are men free? Not many women seeking a guy as homemaker.

In fact, I’ve seen relatives divorced by wives who were dissatisfied with his level of income, and the courts favored them with custody, etc.

Which is why more men going MGTOW and avoiding the risk that Dr Helen Smith describes


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

DJ in WA said:


> One more thought before I hit the road. Feminists want the right to choose family or career but are men free? Not many women seeking a guy as homemaker.
> 
> In fact, I’ve seen relatives divorced by wives who were dissatisfied with his level of income, and the courts favored them with custody, etc.
> 
> Which is why more men going MGTOW and avoiding the risk that Dr Helen Smith describes


i know several men personally who are homemakers, wives are doctors and lawyers. One wife is a partner at a public accountting firm. I haven’t interviewed them but will assume they ironed out who would stay home previous to marriage and childbirth.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> i know several men personally who are homemakers, wives are doctors and lawyers. One wife is a partner at a public accountting firm. I haven’t interviewed them but will assume they ironed out who would stay home previous to marriage and childbirth.


There are always exceptions.

Are most women more attracted to masters of the universe, or a man yearning to stay home and keep house? Maybe the metro-sexual phenomenon is teeing that up to change. Ha, I make myself laugh.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

What good news that Buddhists don't talk down to people - they only murder them in the name of religion.

In August 2018, a study estimated that more than 24,000+ Rohingya people were killed by the Myanmar military and local Buddhists since the "clearance operations" started on 25 August 2017.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> What good news that Buddhists don't talk down to people - they only murder them in the name of religion.
> 
> In August 2018, a study estimated that more than 24,000+ Rohingya people were killed by the Myanmar military and local Buddhists since the "clearance operations" started on 25 August 2017.


OK. It is settled. Everyone, everywhere is bad. Evil reigns supreme. We are doomed


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> There are always exceptions.
> 
> Are most women more attracted to masters of the universe, or a man yearning to stay home and keep house? Maybe the metro-sexual phenomenon is teeing that up to change. Ha, I make myself laugh.


Maybe. It’s interesting how many men are interested in a woman finishing law school though. My daughter dated a guy with an MBA from Pepperdine who told her he wanted to be a house husband. But..as you say, she wasn’t particularly attracted to that. Maybe it’s more men who want to be house husbands than women who want them. 
Dunno. I would t have been interested in it, myself. I knew I wouldn’t have wanted to leave my kids.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Maybe. It’s interesting how many men are interested in a woman finishing law school though. My daughter dated a guy with an MBA from Pepperdine who told her he wanted to be a house husband. But..as you say, she wasn’t particularly attracted to that. Maybe it’s more men who want to be house husbands than women who want them.
> Dunno. I would t have been interested in it, myself. I knew I wouldn’t have wanted to leave my kids.


I think we agree


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

HDRider said:


> OK. It is settled. Everyone, everywhere is bad. Evil reigns supreme. We are doomed


What a terribly sad comment and attitude - but explains a lot. The world is filled with evil and always has been but my experience is that there is more good in the world than evil. However it is pointless to be naive about the evil. Also lumping groups into all good or all evil is not reality.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I think the article itself was *meant to pit women against each other*. Feminism against traditional lifestyles when feminism is just fighting for the right to choose your own lifestyle.


The article was to talk about the movement.

Not everything is done as instigation.

Women are already "against each other".


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> dmm1976 said: ↑
> Ive always wanted to be amish...in theory. But i really need my modern conveniences....and doctors.


The Mennonites seem to have the best of both worlds.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> What a terribly sad comment and attitude - but explains a lot. The world is filled with evil and always has been but my experience is that there is more good in the world than evil. However it is pointless to be naive about the evil. Also lumping groups into all good or all evil is not reality.


OK. Sorry you did not get my sarcasm, but I got your jab. Carry on.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

HDRider said:


> Name one group that does not talk down to, or try to tear down another.


I'll name 2, children under the age of 2 and those who are seriously mentally retarded. I think tearing down other people is a learned behavior and those 2 groups have not or are unable to learn such behaviour.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> Name one group that does not talk down to, or try to tear down another.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> painterswife said: ↑
> *I think* the article itself was meant to pit women against each other. Feminism against traditional lifestyles when feminism is just fighting for the right to choose your own lifestyle.





Irish Pixie said:


> *I agree.* And there are extremists on both sides, who don't represent either traditionalist or the feminist.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Women as a class are NOT equal to men in all respects. Some women are bigger than some men and can do more puish-ups, run faster and farther, are stronger, more aggressive and less hairy. But in general they are weaker, less aggressive and physically weaker. I suspect as a sex they are a bit smarter than men.

So, we take them one by one; I see some women who are as vulgar as prostitutes, carrying crude and vulgar tattoos. I also see some women who would be welcome in any social setting, polite, well spoken, nothing crude or vulgar about them. I expect that there is a man somewhere to match each of them. 

It is the mis-match that we notice---the brutal husband who treats his wife as an appliance and diminishes her stature in the eyes of all he meets. We also see the domineering harpie who treats her husband as a wayward child a meal-ticket and lackey. 

Complicating this discussion is the fact that both men and women are distriuted all along the curve from refined to gross.

I think it depends on our viewpoint. In my opinion the women who wore the "pink" hats were intentionally grossly vulgar and I'd stay as far from one of them as possible.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

tracylee said:


> I am a stay at home. I homeschooled my girls and homeschool 2 grandchildren. I do all the morning milking and feeding, I do all the housekeeping, all the cooking, laundry, sewing, my own schooling. I own and wear only dresses, and never cut my hair. I don't own a purse and have no need for my own personal money. Yes, my husband's needs always come first. I cook every single one of his meals, fix his lunch for work every single day, make his coffee and start his truck every morning.
> I chose this way, I LOVE this way. It's not for everyone and I don't expect every women to agree with it but just for me I don't support feminism and want no part of it.


What do you do from 10-4?


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## IlliniosGal (Jun 3, 2019)

tracylee said:


> I am a stay at home. I homeschooled my girls and homeschool 2 grandchildren. I do all the morning milking and feeding, I do all the housekeeping, all the cooking, laundry, sewing, my own schooling. I own and wear only dresses, and never cut my hair. I don't own a purse and have no need for my own personal money. Yes, my husband's needs always come first. I cook every single one of his meals, fix his lunch for work every single day, make his coffee and start his truck every morning.
> I chose this way, I LOVE this way. It's not for everyone and I don't expect every women to agree with it but just for me I don't support feminism and want no part of it.


Do you worry about what would happen to you if you were to lose your husband, or has he prepared so that you will be financially stable if he were to die or become permanently disabled. I know that would be my biggest worry if I didn't have my own money, house and land.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Not to mention what would happen to him if you were to die or become permanently disabled. Can he cook and clean and do laundry for himself? Do the finances if you are the one who has handled them? Take care of you if you need help? It is unwise for either partner to be incapable of taking full control of the home and finances.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> OK. It is settled. Everyone, everywhere is bad. Evil reigns supreme. We are doomed


That's why we need to preserve and defend our constitution here in the USA.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

tracylee said:


> I am a stay at home. I homeschooled my girls and homeschool 2 grandchildren. I do all the morning milking and feeding, I do all the housekeeping, all the cooking, laundry, sewing, my own schooling. I own and wear only dresses, and never cut my hair. I don't own a purse and have no need for my own personal money. Yes, my husband's needs always come first. I cook every single one of his meals, fix his lunch for work every single day, make his coffee and start his truck every morning.
> I chose this way, I LOVE this way. It's not for everyone and I don't expect every women to agree with it but just for me I don't support feminism and want no part of it.


If that is the life you chose and it was not forced on you, then good for you. That’s what feminism is all about—women being free to choose the lives and roles they want and not being forced into those they do not want.


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