# Mama's Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Babies



## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

So this weekend we were BBQing and needed more wood for the fire. My SS/14 went out to split down some of our firewood into nice thin BBQ sized pieces. While doing so he had a splinter bounce up an clip him in the cheek. It was a pretty good size and left an ugly little cut.

When it hit him he instantly dropped to the ground like he'd just taken sniper fire. Of course everyone goes running over to check on him, and his mother rushes him into the house to doctor him up. Not knowing exactly what has happened I do a quick search of the area to make sure he hasn't chopped a finger off or something. When no missing parts are found, and no sign of blood or gore I go in to check on him.

In the bathroom I find his mother spazzing out and assume it's gonna be pretty ugly. I herd the kids out if the area, grab the other first aid kit from the kitchen (just in case) and rush into the bathroom to see how I can help. What I find shocks me... Ready? Men with weak stomachs shouldn't read any more, moms should read on though.

He's got a cut on his cheek about 1/16th of an inch deep and 1/8th inch wide. The gauze pad she has used to clean away the blood has about 7 spots on it. He's laying back on the bench in the bathroom talking in hushed tones like he's near death, come closer he says, I want to tell you something ma... She's in full panic mode at this point (which is very much unlike her)

Ok I think, maybe it WAS worse? I move her aside and go in for a look. Nothing in the wound, not very deep, minimum blood. She's still trying to push over my shoulder and fussing about maybe he needs a trip to the ER. I quickly decide she needs to be somewhere else and send her for ice. (Uh oh, we're out of ice, it's a trip to the store for her) As she's walking out my 7YO son come in and heads for the tub. He needs to clean up he says... Ok.

Now here's where some of you will hate me and most of the men will agree. After the door is closed (and locked) I tell the boy to get up and go to the sink. 'I can't', he says in his deathbed voice. 

'Son, get off your  and go to the sink, NOW!' He gets up but grunts and groans with every little movement. (I'd like to thank the academy, my agent, and all my fans for this award...) When he gets to the sink and looks in the mirror he turns 8 shades of red. Not because the wound scares him but because he realizes how foolish he looks. About this time he starts tending it himself, cleans it up puts a bandaid on it and goes to watch some TV.

I turned my attention to the boy in the tub. When he saw his brother go down he came running and cut his leg on a blackberry thorn. A long cut but not too bad at all. He's climbed into the tub to clean it off and has a bottle of peroxide with him. I go over and help him clean up and start dabbing peroxide on his leg, no big deal. His little eyes well up and he asks me through clenched teeth hurry it up already. Once he's cleaned up he puts his shorts on and paces up and down the hallway for a few minutes looking kinda PO'd, and is outside playing before mom gets back with the ice.

Now some of you will be wondering why I'm posting this in S&EP. It's simple really. Let your kids testicles drop women! The older boy is so used to his mom fussing over every little bump, scrape, and bruise he went down like a sack of tatters when he got a splinter. The younger kid is so used to getting cuts, scrapes, and bruises he goes to tend himself unless it's serious. Who do you think is better prepared for an emergency? Which is better prepared for life in general? If no one had been around the older son would have laid there for how long? 

PS, once the older boy realized he wasn't REALLY hurt he was fine. I think he was more than a little ashamed of himself when he heard his mom and I argue later about her not letting him be a man, and as I said above, her not letting his balls drop...


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2012)

you are the stepfather?


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

mythreesons said:


> you are the stepfather?


 Of the older son yes.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

This is how boys can turn out if there is not a man's influence in their lives. I suggest you buy Mom this book. It may help her understand.


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## Pam6 (Apr 9, 2009)

My kids will probably tell you I was not born with any bed side manner! No coddling from me! I am the one that is as cool as a cucumber when stuff happens and usually I am the one walking the kid away from the situation while DH has the academy award winning drama performance!! 
My kids have never had the chance to panic when one child ran the chainsaw through another child's hand or when 10 yo DS cut his fingers DEEP on the edge of a can lid because they were to busy watching DH freak out to freak out themselves! My 13 yo DS never even cried when the chainsaw went through his hand! I am not raising any pansies here!! 

My two DD's took their drama lessons from DH though!! LOL!!


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## Strange Bear (May 13, 2002)

Women need to learn to suck it up also. I had an older brother to teach me. LOL


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

LOL, you are so right!

I never made a fuss over my son's numerous cuts, bruises, and owies. I check to see if he needs stitches, and that's it. 

Our standard reply is: Are you dying? No? Then go clean it up!  Of course I will say that one summer I went through an astounding number of bandaids, haha


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Ah and my wife fusses when i come in bleeding every where with a bunch of duct tape on a wound .Duct tape is your friend :bouncy:

Did you know some die from minor wounds because they think they are worse than they really are :grumble: In my case i use mind over mater :happy:
If you have no mind it won't matter :nana:


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## WV Farm girl (Nov 26, 2011)

I agree totally! I'm usually the one telling kids and some adults to suck it up. And Strange Bear its not just women. I've known a couple of men who baby their kids Way to much!


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2012)

Yes, I'm one of those mom's to baby my boy's! My 2 oldest boy's however are not wimp's even though I pampered them all their lives..my youngest son is somewhat wimpy only when he around certain family member's though..


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## jessimeredith (Sep 12, 2004)

Standard of operation in our house:

"Are you bleeding?"
"Yes."
"Are you bleeding to death?"
"No."
"Well then...I guess it's not the end of the world then, is it? Go get a rag."


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## stamphappy (Jul 29, 2010)

I got a call from the school nurse to come pick up my child as he hurt his arm on the playground and that I should probably take him to the doctor. 

I get to the nurse's station and my son, age 12, is holding his arm in that telltale position (close to the body, a sign that it's probably broken). Of course he's been sitting in the nurse's station looking like it hurts but as soon as he sees me, he starts to tear up. I didn't hug him or coddle him but I told him 'come on, get up honey, let's head to the doctor'. We take off and get it taken care of that day and the next (yes, it was broken).

When I go to the nurse's station the next day (I work at the school), I was told in a 'teasing' manner by 2 office ladies that I was too tough on my child and I should have spent some time hugging and coddling him. And 'boy, I'm sure a hard mom'. This teasing went on for several days. 

I didn't hug him in front of everyone because I didn't want him to break down in tears and in his opinion lose face in front of everyone in the school. He's a 'big' man on campus 6th grader. 

Besides, we need to keep a calm head, take care of the problem expediently, and _then_ have time for hugs and cuddles.


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## stamphappy (Jul 29, 2010)

jessimeredith said:


> Standard of operation in our house:
> 
> "Are you bleeding?"
> "Yes."
> ...


YES!!! This is the exact same thing we taught our boys and the other neighbor ladies were aghast.


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## jessimeredith (Sep 12, 2004)

stamphappy said:


> YES!!! This is the exact same thing we taught our boys and the other neighbor ladies were aghast.


Oh yes...I'm "the bully mom" on the block. I also do horrible things like make my kids do chores, read books instead of play the Wii and spend quality play time outside. I'm evil and must be destroyed. 

Can.not.wait.to.move! lol


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

ound: I love how you told that story.

You are so right. I do not have any med training. But it happens that at my job, I'm one of 2 people who receive the wounded (900 people at times, very physical and many injuries). It is 99% about the presentation and your reaction so many times. Of course, all people are different, but with those who tend to lean to the dramatic, the attitude of the one that offers help usually means everything.

I haven't read the book CF posted, but I bet it's a great start. I'm sure we all have a family member we need to "train" for reaction sake. I know I have a couple of those.

Hey, and this goes for both MALE AND FEMALE. Same principal, not just a guy thing.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

One of the biggest frustrations when I was a paramedic was dealing with those types of parents. We couldn't refuse to transport anyone, even if it wasn't necessary to go to the hospital at all, let alone in an ambulance. I often tried to talk people out of it by telling them their insurance wouldn't cover the $1000 ambulance ride because it was unnecessary. That may have been a lie (and could have gotten me sued if I was ever wrong) but it worked sometimes. Getting the hysterical parents away from the kids usually made it much easier for all involved...that was true even when there were real serious injuries. I've noticed with babies and small children, when they fall down and they're not hurt, they first look to the adults around them to see how they react before deciding if they will cry. Maybe that continues throughout life for some.

I don't know your particular family dynamics, whether you're the only father figure or if he has his real dad too, but try to get your wife to realize what she's doing to him. That will not serve him well in life.


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

LOL - this made me laugh, although I do believe it isn't just boys who need to toughen up a little - I know of many of my DD's friends who could use a little toughening 

A word of caution on the over dramatics though. Twice in my life I have been guilty of missing a problem because I "thought" the person was over reacting. First time was thirty years ago when my best friend (who was renowned for her drama queen reaction to pain) turned up at my house on her pony in hysterics because the pony had jumped on her foot. We were late to be somewhere and I was used to the screaming, so I told her to get over it and we hurried to pony club. When we got there our instructor asked her what was wrong and, on hearing the story, told her to get off and take her boot off. The boot came off and was absolutely FULL of blood LOL - I crept away from that one with my tail between my legs.

Then a couple of years ago DD had an asthma attack. In all fairness, she had never had one before so I had no real reason to suspect that that was what it really was. I thought she was over-reacting and she was a very poorly little girl by the time I took her seriously enough to get her to the doctor 

I'm not QUITE so quick to dismiss things on the basis of over-dramatic behaviour now LOL :smack


ETA - although in all fairness, DD has never been the sort to get hysterical and over-react either so it was a little unfair of me to think that that was what was happening. She is usually the one who actually HAS hurt herself and wants to keep going LOL


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

I really do think this story circles around into many other aspects of life. 

I grew up with lots of cousins. A few uncles and aunts close to my age also. I wouldnt have stopped cutting the wood myself as a kid in that role. Usually I never even knew where I got worse cuts then that when my mom had a chance to see me at super time. 

My relatives of my age group though? Many of them were coddled as you describe here. ALL of them grew up to be the type who crumble to various degrees under any sort of pressure. I have long thought there is a correlation there. Only three of them even left their parents homes so far (the oldest)two were 29 and 31 respectively when they did, the last was 25 but actually moved in with our uncle. (the 31 yr old listed)

Last time I was back in the area I grew up and shared some of the actually rather tame stories of my "travels" they act like im daniel boone or davey crockett or something and look at me with a mix of fear and respect that really makes me laugh. Even the one among them who was only a step or so away from being an eagle scout!!! (always had his fellow scouts with him)


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

ryanthomas said:


> One of the biggest frustrations when I was a paramedic was dealing with those types of parents. We couldn't refuse to transport anyone, even if it wasn't necessary to go to the hospital at all, let alone in an ambulance. I often tried to talk people out of it by telling them their insurance wouldn't cover the $1000 ambulance ride because it was unnecessary. That may have been a lie (and could have gotten me sued if I was ever wrong) but it worked sometimes. Getting the hysterical parents away from the kids usually made it much easier for all involved...that was true even when there were real serious injuries. I've noticed with babies and small children, when they fall down and they're not hurt, they first look to the adults around them to see how they react before deciding if they will cry. Maybe that continues throughout life for some.
> 
> I don't know your particular family dynamics, whether you're the only father figure or if he has his real dad too, but try to get your wife to realize what she's doing to him. That will not serve him well in life.


 I'm the only dad he's ever known as his dad is in prison. He'd have a fit if he saw her coddling him like that. (West Virginian mountain man type) Thing is his sister (my SD) is tough as nails. She's been messing with him all day, dropping to the ground and rolling around whenever there's a loud noise or whatever. I'd make her stop but I'm not sure it's not good for him in the long run...


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2012)

What do you expect, the next food network star wears lipstick. And he's not a girl, at least I don't think so any way.
Boys are not exposed to hard knocks like when we were kids any more.


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## majik (Feb 23, 2005)

veggiecanner said:


> Boys are not exposed to hard knocks like when we were kids any more.


How about we agree that boys *and* girls could use a little toughening up these days?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

YES Invaild you are valid.

This is just why I worked hard to fine men to menter my son. Dh is disabled --he has his good days but too many bad days and I wanted my son to be a man. Yes I push him. Pounce's son is going to be a man I meet him and was duly impressed.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

In my family I am famous for telling my daughter to, "buck up and shake it off". I did once miss a problem when she told me she had a fever but since she was playing around and acting normally, I didn't pay attention. Finally I agreed to take her temp (although she was still acting normally), and it was 104 degrees! I felt like the worst mom in the world.

Since we have been taking this martial arts class for a couple of years, we are now in the phase where if we come home without some color (aka bruising), we feel like we were slacking. "Suck it up, buttercup, and walk it off!" I broke 2 toes there last week. Just taped them together and went on with life.

One caution I would add though, from a survival standpoint, is not to ignore pain or an injury. Take the time to examine it (whether in yourself or your child), to be sure that it will not be made more severe by tolerating the pain. In a SHTF situation, where people can die from infection from a tiny injury, it does pay to play it safe and err on the side of caution. Go inside, clean the wound, slap on a bandage, toss back an aspirin if needed, and get back to work. But make sure that wound is clean first.


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## Huntinfamily (Aug 14, 2010)

Sounds a lot like my 14 year old . Not only is he the biggest drama queen ever, he is limited as to what chores he can do because some of them are to strenuous. The most exercise he gets is getting off his bed and going to the refrigerator. If I make him do any kind of manual labor he calls Grandma and complains. Now his little brother (12) will split firewood from sun up until sundown, come in the house, take a shower, clean his room and offer to help do the dishes. Big difference between them.yes they are biological brothers but complete opposites. My biological son (16) is the same as the youngest. Hard working and tough as nails. Both of them want to be Marines, the middle one has no future goals.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

veggiecanner said:


> What do you expect, the next food network star wears lipstick. And he's not a girl, at least I don't think so any way.
> Boys are not exposed to hard knocks like when we were kids any more.


 Even the lipstick boys can be tough. My sister was friends with this little fella that went on to be a hairdresser. He as very, um... Anyway, walking out of the corner store one day some big dude starts giving him crap. Surprise of all surprises this little femme kid whooped the crap out of the trash talker. And I don't mean thlapped him thilly either. Toe to toe and blow for blow.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Huntinfamily said:


> Sounds a lot like my 14 year old . Not only is he the biggest drama queen ever, he is limited as to what chores he can do because some of them are to strenuous. The most exercise he gets is getting off his bed and going to the refrigerator. If I make him do any kind of manual labor he calls Grandma and complains. Now his little brother (12) will split firewood from sun up until sundown, come in the house, take a shower, clean his room and offer to help do the dishes. Big difference between them.yes they are biological brothers but complete opposites. My biological son (16) is the same as the youngest. Hard working and tough as nails. Both of them want to be Marines, the middle one has no future goals.


 My stepson wants to be a Marine. I am afraid if I don't do something for him (or he for himself) he won't survive the bus ride, let alone the Marines. It's either toughen him up now or suggest he look into the Coast Guard later.... ound:


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks for posting this, InvalidID! Not only did I get a little laugh out of the deathbed scene in the bathroom, but I am so grateful to know I'm not the only rough cob of a Mom out there. When my kids were little they hated for me to brush their hair or wipe their faces because I was "rough". 

And with injuries, if it's not gushing blood and their are no bones or entrails hanging out, wash it with some soap and water and get on with your life. My kids are pretty tough because they've been raised to know I'm not going to make a big deal out of most average injuries. They've seen me pick a 2" long sliver of wood out of my leg, tape up barbed wire gashes and get back to work, just cuss a little when I crushed my thumb with a rock, and continue butchering chickens when I cut a little divot of flesh out of my hand by accident. I'm a klutz, so I'd have to be institutionalized if I got hysterical every time I hurt myself.

Some of the kids we've had sleep over make me roll my eyes. One kid fell on the gravel and had a TINY little scrape on her knee - it barely bled one drop of blood. I cleaned it up, put neosporin and a bandaid on it, and she wanted Motrin and an ice pack, and limped and moaned about it the rest of the day. Another kid had a meltdown over the blood from losing a tooth (a baby tooth!) at our house. Another kid had to be picked up and taken home by his Mom because he slid down a tree with my son and had several "road rash" type abrasions on his inner arms. 

I agree totally - life is tough and people who are going to survive it need to be tougher. Moms aren't doing their kids any favors by babying them - not that I don't kiss and hug them when they need it.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Mom and I were digging up a new garden spot when I was young. Cut my foot open on a broken bottle, at the Dr's office I had to sit on a chair and get sewn up while my Dad had to lay on the table. The Dr. didn't even wash out the wound,I suspect he was too preocupied with my Dad. One can still see all of the dirt in my foot. Grow up Boy's ,you don't want to be a wimp dad.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I feel so much better now. I'm the kind of mom with the kind of kid.....that finds the melted bag of ice on his dresser DAYS later and he can't remember what it was for. And the kind of mom that takes the DD to the dr 3 days AFTER she breaks her arm...and and patches up stitch-worthy holes with super glue or reinforced tape. Hey, if it's in a place where you won't see it...why bother with stitches? And overhears DS-12 tell his older brothers and sisters that he's lost 5 teeth this month....!? !? !?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

From what I have seen, stitches just make the scar worse. Better to tape it shut if it's not bleeding that bad, _after_ it's been washed out well. And from what I have seen lately, cleaning wounds ls no longer considered part of the treatment in the ER.

My kids aren't babies. I taught them to clean and dress their own boo-boos when they were little. 

Don't know if either is tough enough to walk around on a broken foot or not though. Hope to never find out.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

7thswan said:


> Mom and I were digging up a new garden spot when I was young. Cut my foot open on a broken bottle, at the Dr's office I had to sit on a chair and get sewn up while my Dad had to lay on the table. The Dr. didn't even wash out the wound,I suspect he was too preocupied with my Dad. One can still see all of the dirt in my foot. Grow up Boy's ,you don't want to be a wimp dad.


 When I was 11 I was attacked by a doberman down the street from my house. Mean dog, and I wasn't the first kid to be bitten. 

After getting cleaned up I was walking around watching the muscle move where the skin as torn away, I thought it was neat to see how the body worked. At the ER the Dr is stitching up my leg and I asked my dad to tilt his head. Everyone had taken extra care to make sure I couldn't see what they were doing, but I was watching in the reflection of dads glasses. At this point the Dr. said, 'Just let him sit up, he wants to watch and I'll be able to stitch him up easier'.

Funny, the nurse wanted to marry my dad on the spot... LOL

ETA: A few days later I killed that  dog. The cop that lived on our street was the one to take the report. He went from her house (owner of the dog) to ours and promptly took me out for ice cream.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Danaus29 said:


> From what I have seen, stitches just make the scar worse. Better to tape it shut if it's not bleeding that bad, _after_ it's been washed out well. And from what I have seen lately, cleaning wounds ls no longer considered part of the treatment in the ER.
> 
> My kids aren't babies. I taught them to clean and dress their own boo-boos when they were little.
> 
> Don't know if either is tough enough to walk around on a broken foot or not though. Hope to never find out.


 This is something I was trying to explain to my wife. I showed her the scars I have and contrasted the smaller wounds that were stitched up, to larger ones that I fixed up myself. Stitches = big ugly pink scars, no stitches = thinner lines of white scar.


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

I was never babied and I sure don't baby anyone - child or adult. I don't tolerate drama scenes. However I do not treat any injury - no matter how small - in a casual manner. 

Cellulitis does not care about size or depth of injury or if your kid can "suck it up". Any cut, fracture, burn or even a scrape increases your risk of cellulitis because the injury gives bacteria an entry point. 

A bang on the head may just bring tears to your eyes but it can also be a serious matter that developes over time. If a kid says it hurts you need to pay attention and not just dismiss it as being wimpish. Pain was given to us as a warning signal.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Ah and my wife fusses when i come in bleeding every where with a bunch of duct tape on a wound .Duct tape is your friend :bouncy:


Duct tape IS your friend.....Amen !

But honestly, that stretchy green/red/pink self adhesive gauze is REALLY cool stuff too......


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## Graham (Jul 24, 2011)

"Does it hurt?"
"Yes!"
"Good"
"What?"
"Pain is the body's way of telling you you are not dead and you need to get off your butt and go clean it up."
If they get up, then I have ascertained basic first aid. They have an airway, they are breathing and if it's bleeding then they have circulation. They are also coherent because they questioned me, so shock is not a problem at the moment.


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## elliemaeg (May 1, 2005)

I learned a lesson from my Mom when I was very young. If I get hurt and scare Mom she will whip me. So, I went thru life taking care of my own injuries and hiding it. It worked out alright. My only problem is now that I am older the Dr ordered an MRI on my stomach section. He thought I had been in a horrible accident. Many hurts but took care of them and went on. But so did Mom.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

Ok, I am not playing devils advocate here but if someone one who supposedly loved me told me to let my sons testicles drop I would drop him immediately. We each do life our own way, period. If sons way is whiney then so be it. No one has to hang around and play with him or listen to it. If wife likes to coddle the kids, let her. They will learn in their own good time that love can not cure all injuries.

If one of my kids is whining (I have one female with that tendency) and her noises draw the attention of the boogy man then she will meet the boogy man...nuff said.

My job is to teach them basic ten commandment stuff, golden rule stuff, personal responsibility etc not how to stuff your feelings.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

By the way LOL, my daughter just read my post and tells me I do the same thing as step dad ROFLOL. I just finished telling her it is a "small burn" with a "small blister" and she still needs to get the cheese off the bottom of the oven before it sets up! I should be ashamed...but I can't stop laughing.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

My son rebuilt that ---- dirt bike of his dads.....no brakes and a throttle cable that stuck....he tried to hide the road rash and broken thumb....had to work at the dairy barn that night.....he went, his boss tried to send him home and he refused" 'cause momma would find out what happened and kick my butt for being stupid with the dirt bike"....he fixed himself and the dirt bike now but he still fears me.....more than the state police and his GF hates me because I tell her to get off her darn phone while driving....spoiled little brat...
My oldest DD is tough and mouthy...she told the neighbor off while at my mom's this summer....I got a phone call.....the neighbor visited my dad and apologized for the BS he was pulling and was shocked to find out DD is only 16....I cannot say the exact things she said but she recommended he find a quieter hobby or she would make his life miserable.....she likes to butcher animals.

My parents were shocked and asked to have her back....


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

Mom_of_Four said:


> ... Another kid had a meltdown over the blood from losing a tooth (a baby tooth!) at our house.


My daughter had a friend visiting who lost a tooth at our house. I was horrified because I knew her family/toothfairy paid a whopping $25 per tooth! I shelled out one slim buck and that was all. When she got up the next morning, I told her it was the travel differential out to our place that caused the difference in pay.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I recommend the book Cabin posted. I read it, then re-read it, and gave my copy away and then bought a Kindle version.

I really think everyone should read it as it tells of Making a man, and it also lets females know what to look for in a man.

And I remember keeping care of my younger brother and him cutting into his calf muscle with his spider bike, in an accident. We rode our bikes over to my aunts, as mom was at work. Some mercerchome or iodine and bandaides after cleaning it. I think maybe a butterfly bandaide, and he was off playing again.

There have been other times - my bike wreck on gravel/paved road and such - 
just clean up, mercerchome/iodine and bandages if appropriate - then keep on going.


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## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

Huntinfamily said:


> Sounds a lot like my 14 year old . Not only is he the biggest drama queen ever, he is limited as to what chores he can do because some of them are to strenuous. The most exercise he gets is getting off his bed and going to the refrigerator. If I make him do any kind of manual labor he calls Grandma and complains. Now his little brother (12) will split firewood from sun up until sundown, come in the house, take a shower, clean his room and offer to help do the dishes. Big difference between them.yes they are biological brothers but complete opposites. My biological son (16) is the same as the youngest. Hard working and tough as nails. Both of them want to be Marines, the middle one has no future goals.




When mine were little, they would tattle on me to grandma..often. It got carried away because she listened and took thier side. Then one day one of the little brats told her an embelishment and she caught them...it was all over but the smack down. LOL. After that it was, tattle and grandma will spank you and then mom will.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

sisterpine said:


> Ok, I am not playing devils advocate here but if someone one who supposedly loved me told me to let my sons testicles drop I would drop him immediately. We each do life our own way, period. If sons way is whiney then so be it. No one has to hang around and play with him or listen to it. If wife likes to coddle the kids, let her. They will learn in their own good time that love can not cure all injuries.
> 
> If one of my kids is whining (I have one female with that tendency) and her noises draw the attention of the boogy man then she will meet the boogy man...nuff said.
> 
> My job is to teach them basic ten commandment stuff, golden rule stuff, personal responsibility etc not how to stuff your feelings.


 Different strokes for different folks I suppose. For me, whiny is not an option. I give my kids quite a bit of leeway on who they want to be but there are certain things they will not be (until they move out anyway). Whiny, dishonest, bullies, sissies (mostly for the boys, but I expect a certain amount of tough from my girls too);I suppose I could make a longer list but I think the idea is there.

As for telling the wife to let the boys testies drop... She knew who I was when she married me. I'm the same man today as I was 10 years ago. She was attracted to me because of who I am. She's tough and would say similar to me if I was whining, and she'd be doing me a favor as far as I'm concerned. We may sound like vikings, but we do it from a place of love. (Anyone wanna hug me?)


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

mpillow said:


> My son rebuilt that ---- dirt bike of his dads.....no brakes and a throttle cable that stuck....he tried to hide the road rash and broken thumb....had to work at the dairy barn that night.....he went, his boss tried to send him home and he refused" 'cause momma would find out what happened and kick my butt for being stupid with the dirt bike"....he fixed himself and the dirt bike now but he still fears me.....more than the state police and his GF hates me because I tell her to get off her darn phone while driving....spoiled little brat...
> My oldest DD is tough and mouthy...she told the neighbor off while at my mom's this summer....I got a phone call.....the neighbor visited my dad and apologized for the BS he was pulling and was shocked to find out DD is only 16....I cannot say the exact things she said but she recommended he find a quieter hobby or she would make his life miserable.....she likes to butcher animals.
> 
> My parents were shocked and asked to have her back....


 Oh man, sounds like when I was a kid. Maybe we're just raised tougher in Maine... LOL


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

My DH will go to the DR. for ANYTHING, really. I have to litterally be dying to go. I knwo there are times I SHOULD go...my ankle probebly needs one of those walkin' casts. I've broken it twice before (once it was put into a big cast) the second time I say NO to the cast as I didn't want to miss out on any work so I am familair with this boo-boo. It's likely jsut a stress fracture, no need to get all frantic about it. A little Ibuprophen and I'm good to go. Then there was that time I got walking pnumonia. I refused to go to the DR. I could get better on my own. DH finially drove me to the clinic and MADE me go when I got to the point I could hardly move for the lack of air. They made me take a WHOLE week off of work for that on 

I don't have any kids, but I'd sure want them to be a bit less stuborn about getting fixed up then I am but I wouldn't want them whinny either over little stuff.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

I have noticed that kids in general are a lot cleaner, paler and "unscuffed" these days. We used to have scraped knees, bruises here and there, sunburned noses and so on. We really got outside and played. Today, parents seem to want to raise the kids to where they never get dirty or hurt.

You have to be careful and not go too far on the "suck it up", side also. My son broke his finger in little league and I sent him back out to play, "walk it off". The coach was giving me the "quit being such a mommy" look and he could move/bend the finger. The next day it was extremely swollen and purple and angry and we were lucky it was still in place. 

Another time we were camping and son got a cut that could have had stitches. We opted for butterfly bandage, plenty of antiseptic and some vet wrap instead of running to the ER. (Vet wrap is great stuff, btw, everyone should have some in their first aid kit) The campground "neighbors" thought we were terrible people but it healed fine, no infection and hardly any scar. 

We did run him to the ER about 3 times, he left with at least 7 stitches each time. Accident prone kid!

When you evaluate an injury, it helps calm the kid down to answer questions and think about something besides the pain. It makes them responsible to tell you what happened and what hurts, not just squall and expect you to wave a magic wand and fix it. Just check them out and use your judgement. Don't make a big deal over a little blood, but make sure all it really needs is cleanup and a bandage.


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## Heidi (Feb 19, 2005)

My kid is scuffed up, bruised, dirty and one tough little SOB! He's a hockey player and knows the penalty for causing a delay of game by laying on the ice after he's been hit...and he isn't worried about the one that the refs will give him...he knows that mom will be WAY harder on him than they will. Unless, of course, he's actually hurt..lol

The rule around our house has always been if you aren't bleeding from your eyeballs...and there are no bones protruding out of your skin...clean it up, bandaid and carry on! 

All of us are that way...our family doctor barely recognizes any of us. If something is bad enough for stitches or antibiotics it's way quicker to go to the clinic anyway. 

My mom never had any patience for sicknesses or injuries when we were kids so I know where I get it from. Sometimes I worry that I will end up ignoring something that actually turns out to be serious but have been lucky so far.


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## mommathea (May 27, 2009)

lol! I'm the mean mom too. When they were babies and toddlers I didn't rush to them when they bumped their heads, or fell down, I went to them to make sure they were really ok, but no panicked rushing and making a big fuss over it. And cheered them when they shook it off and were ok.

My oldest though. He HATES blood. The blood is worse than the injury.  When he had first learned to ride his bike he went though a water puddle and his tires slipped out from under him on the wet blacktop. We made a big fuss about it only be a scrape, and how girls like boys to have scars, and how fussing about it isn't going to make it feel better.
He still panics when he draws blood, but mostly now he'll go and clean himself up and put a bandaid on it himself.

A few months back we were splitting wood and oldest ds job was to take the split wood from the pile and stack it. Well he walked in front of the pile between the me/the splitter and the wood pile just as I tossed a chunk of wood and it caught him on the forehead just at the hair line and knocked him down on his butt. I knew I tossed it hard because I was aiming for the back end of the pile. And boy do those kind of head wounds bleed. I swooped his 8yr old self up and to the house to stop the bleeding. But coddle and fuss over him I didn't. I made him lay down on the kitchen floor so he wouldn't get blood on my carpet in the other rooms and barked orders to get a clean cloth. It was a pretty deep gash. Had to shave his hair to get to the wound. Got the bleeding stopped, washed it out with peroxide, and butterflied him up and gave him some Iboprofen to keep the swelling down. Made him sit in the chair with an ice pack for 1/2hour because it goose egged up pretty good. But you know what, 15min into that 1/2hr he was asking if he could go out and jump on the trampoline. 

Another time the 5yr old ds had messed with something sharp that I told him not to mess with. He ended up cutting some skin on his fingers. I walk into the bathroom later in the day to find bandaid papers on the floor and my sink all bloody. He didn't tell me he cut himself because he knew he'd be in trouble for disobeying.  I scolded him for leaving the bathroom a mess, and made a point that if he had obeyed he wouldn't have gotten hurt, and went into the other room for a chuckle.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

I've never believed in babying kids. Sometimes I think I went over board about brushing off the little things though. Once, a couple of years ago, a neighbor boy tried picking a fight with my DS. He pushed my DS down. When DS told me what happened he acted fine, so I didn't think anything about it, after all, boys will be boys. But for the next couple of days I could tell DS was favoring his left arm. I kept asking him about it and he kept telling me it was fine. I watched for signs of swelling, but didn't see any. After a couple of days I figured I needed to get it checked out because he was still favoring it. He had broken the growth bone in his wrist. Never complained and when asked kept telling me he was fine. I have to watch DS very close because he will not tell us when he's hurt.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

My kids are farm tough - they shake off most everything. When my then 6 yr old daughter sliced off part of her finger the only time she really cried was when they gave her the numbing shot to clean it - those shots hurt like heck! She was brave all through the two reconstructive surgeries as well. 

That said, if you are around children that have had a traumatic past (pretty much any kid in foster care) you need to adjust your thinking. Children in high stress situations have a lot of Cortisol (stress hormone) running through their system that dulls pain. If they ever get to the point that they feel safe the Cortisol levels will drop and they will feel pain, sometimes for the first time in their lives. Their body has never learned to deal with normal bumps and bruises so you may a 12 year old that over reacts to the most simple of pain stimuli like their leg has been cut off. It is like a person who has been deaf or mostly deaf getting one of those implants - they are overwhelmed by all the noise because they have never had the opportunity to learn to filter out incoming info. (This is true for some autistics too - not enough filters for all the sensory data coming in so they shut down.) Telling a child in that situation to "suck it up" is not going to help them. Calmly helping them to access the situation - am I bleeding, is it bad enough for a band-aid, can I clean it up myself or do I need to ask for help, etc... is what they need.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

InvalidID said:


> The older boy is so used to his mom fussing over every little bump, scrape, and bruise he went down like a sack of tatters when he got a splinter.


Hey! Watch what you say about a sack of Tators (sp)!

My elder Tator Tot is one tough Soldier, while being a very pretty girl. Seriously, she's a soldier, and has been in the Army since 2003. My younger Tator Tot is a Marine!

I'm thinking that boy went down like some other root vegetable! Turnips or parsnips, THUD!


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

My son just turned 16 and I have been telling him for years that if he doesn't bleed at least twice a week then he isn't playing hard enough!!! We have medical...

He has probably heard "Man up!" and "Take it like a man!" thousands of times throughout his life.

When he started playing football I told his couch that I had been preparing him for football by pushing him down the stairs once a day since he was 2....he has turned out to be an excellent lineman!!!


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Too funny, OP. 

My kids are use to cleaning up themselves. One day I saw my son piggy backing in my crying daughter (they were 10 & 6 at the time). He brought her in an dumped her at the kitchen sink (sitter her on the counter) and left her. I asked what was up. She had a cut on the bottom of her foot, her carried her so it didn't get dirtier and dropped her at the sink so she could wash it and bandage it (I keep a basket of "fix it" stuff in the cupboard above the sink). I went and checked on her. She's on her knees on the counter getting the "fix it" basket, sniffling and saying "I'm fine, Mom, I can do it". No Babies, here, LOL.


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## Trixters_muse (Jan 29, 2008)

We were at a picnic once when my kids who were about 9 and 10, were walking together down a small hill with bottles of water, one lost their footing and both fell down the hill. When they landed and I saw that there was no blood gushing I laughed and said "Hey Jack and Jill, hope you didn't get any grass stains on those new shorts!" DH and I chuckled, checked each child, immediately put ice on the bumps that needed it and went on with our day. The next day three people called me and told me that "everyone" was saying that we were wrong and that we neglected our kids. I was like REALLY? The kids laughed it off, although they both were a little sore the next morning it was hard to tell if the soreness was from the fall or all the running and playing they did all day. When I told my kids about the calls my DD rolled her eyes and said "I'm not a baby mom, thanks for not making me look like a fool by getting all huggy, kissy. That would have been far worse."


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

InvalidID said:


> This is something I was trying to explain to my wife. I showed her the scars I have and contrasted the smaller wounds that were stitched up, to larger ones that I fixed up myself. Stitches = big ugly pink scars, no stitches = thinner lines of white scar.


I worst scars I've ever seen were done with those confounded staples.


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## txplowgirl (Oct 15, 2007)

I'm one that if somethin happened to my boy i'm make sure he wasn't seriously hurt then tell him to go on, my husband would litterally fawn all over the kid and pamper him and I was accused of not loving my son.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Wags said:


> My kids are farm tough - they shake off most everything. When my then 6 yr old daughter sliced off part of her finger the only time she really cried was when they gave her the numbing shot to clean it - those shots hurt like heck! She was brave all through the two reconstructive surgeries as well.
> 
> That said, if you are around children that have had a traumatic past (pretty much any kid in foster care) you need to adjust your thinking. Children in high stress situations have a lot of Cortisol (stress hormone) running through their system that dulls pain. If they ever get to the point that they feel safe the Cortisol levels will drop and they will feel pain, sometimes for the first time in their lives. Their body has never learned to deal with normal bumps and bruises so you may a 12 year old that over reacts to the most simple of pain stimuli like their leg has been cut off. It is like a person who has been deaf or mostly deaf getting one of those implants - they are overwhelmed by all the noise because they have never had the opportunity to learn to filter out incoming info. (This is true for some autistics too - not enough filters for all the sensory data coming in so they shut down.) Telling a child in that situation to "suck it up" is not going to help them. Calmly helping them to access the situation - am I bleeding, is it bad enough for a band-aid, can I clean it up myself or do I need to ask for help, etc... is what they need.


My kiddo(adopted) was never "beaten" but neglected....she will put on the waterworks when caught red handed say.. pulling the dogs ear and making him howl...she can fall off her bike and just ask for a wash cloth....when the scabs come she picks incessantly so something that should heal in a week or two is 6 or 8 and when we speak to her "leave the scab alone" she cries....its weird...she could knock her head and unless she bled she wouldn't tell us...so we keep a close eye on her for sure...I'm surprised she has contracted MRSA the way she picks herself...


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## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

So this 11 year old is home with two younger sisters and the babysitter when she "catches" her fingers in between the slats of the garage door while closing it. Ouch.. Fortunately, it was cold out so the pain was manageable. The 11 year old calls the family friend (as directed to in an emergcency) and tells that mom that she needs to go to the ER she hurt hand. Family friend says, we're eating dinner, I'll call you back.

11 year old sticks her hand in a glass of ice water and sits down to wait. 5 minutes later the phone rings... "did you just say you crushed you hand and need to go to the ER? answer yes, I did." They came over, picked up the 11 year old and headed to the hospital, all the while apologizing for not believing the 11 year old when she first called. They said since the 11 year old wasn't hysterical and was so calm, it didn't sink in at first..

Moral of the story... if not screaming in pain, make sure to convey the urgency of the matter!

The 11 year broke/crushed the middle finger.. hurt like a (*(&$#@ once the cold wore off...


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

7thswan said:


> I worst scars I've ever seen were done with those confounded staples.


 I've been lucky not to have any staples. Yuck.


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## Bettacreek (May 19, 2012)

Kids absolutely follow your lead. My youngest is babied to high hell by my parents, and when they're around, he's a snot-nosed brat who cries over everything. My oldest is a little more rounded... He'll fall, scuff himself up to the point that he's bleeding, but he'll pop up, look at me and say "I'm ok!" and run off to do the next fun thing. The youngest will cry if you give him a dirty look (the "DON'T YOU DARE!!!" look). Granted, now that we're not living with my parents anymore, he's gotten SO much better! He knows that the boyfriend will back me up when I correct him, instead of MY parents overriding every correction I make and babying him (GAH). I have to admit that some of the things my kids do to themselves makes my belly churn. Like, when one splits a lip or something, or even worse, when my oldest chipped a tooth. But, I clean it up, allow a short bit of crying, then tell them that it's enough. When they hear "enough", they stop crying and go back to their business. My brother, on the other hand, is waaaaayyyyy too soft on his kids. His daughter is spoiled rotten, never gets corrected, etc. I mean, so spoiled that when I watch her, she expects me to put her on the potty (ain't gonna happen). She's three and a half, and quite capable of getting up on a potty by herself, but she's spoiled and it's easier to make someone else do it. She has finally learned to stop asking me and just goes and gets on the potty by herself, but when her daddy gets here, she demands that he puts her on the potty. Same with her mommy. Drives me crazy!


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Bettacreek said:


> Kids absolutely follow your lead. My youngest is babied to high hell by my parents, and when they're around, he's a snot-nosed brat who cries over everything. My oldest is a little more rounded... He'll fall, scuff himself up to the point that he's bleeding, but he'll pop up, look at me and say "I'm ok!" and run off to do the next fun thing. The youngest will cry if you give him a dirty look (the "DON'T YOU DARE!!!" look). Granted, now that we're not living with my parents anymore, he's gotten SO much better! He knows that the boyfriend will back me up when I correct him, instead of MY parents overriding every correction I make and babying him (GAH). I have to admit that some of the things my kids do to themselves makes my belly churn. Like, when one splits a lip or something, or even worse, when my oldest chipped a tooth. But, I clean it up, allow a short bit of crying, then tell them that it's enough. When they hear "enough", they stop crying and go back to their business. My brother, on the other hand, is waaaaayyyyy too soft on his kids. His daughter is spoiled rotten, never gets corrected, etc. I mean, so spoiled that when I watch her, she expects me to put her on the potty (ain't gonna happen). She's three and a half, and quite capable of getting up on a potty by herself, but she's spoiled and it's easier to make someone else do it. She has finally learned to stop asking me and just goes and gets on the potty by herself, but when her daddy gets here, she demands that he puts her on the potty. Same with her mommy. Drives me crazy!


 Not long ago we were visiting a friend of my wife. At some point I hear from the back of the house a little voice, 'Mommy, I pooped.' Then a little louder, 'MOOOM, I pooooppped!' Finally, Mom, are you gonna wipe me or not!?'

It was her 6 year old son... :smack


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## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

Makes me wonder who is training who in those situations.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

InvalidID said:


> Not long ago we were visiting a friend of my wife. At some point I hear from the back of the house a little voice, 'Mommy, I pooped.' Then a little louder, 'MOOOM, I pooooppped!' Finally, Mom, are you gonna wipe me or not!?'
> 
> It was her 6 year old son... :smack


Our kids weren't allowed (by the school) to start Kindergarten until they could wipe themselves. It was more of an issue of not being accused of "touching someone" than a time issue. But every kid that age should be able to wipe, unless they are delayed or have a physical problem. They don't always do a great job, but that's what bleach in the laundry is for. And if they aren't forced/allowed to learn, we're only hurting them. :flameproofundies:


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

I never raised up my kids to be whoosies and they all had their share of accidents. Small cuts, bumps or bruises - that's no big deal and it's fine to teach children how to properly tend to such minor injuries themselves. 

But there is no way I'm going to neglect kids injuries like broken bones, bad sprains, spreading hematomas, deep lacerations with copious bleeding and hard knocks to the head where there's a high risk of concussion. It's off to the clinic immediately for things like that and while I'll be calmly reassuring and won't fuss over the kid I'm not going to tell them to suck it up either. Tell a kid enough times to suck it up and go look after their own injuries and make them feel ashamed of themself for being frightened then one day they'll be too frightened to approach you when they've suffered a really serious injury.

Sorry, but I have to say this. I'm absolutely shocked at the poster who said they neglected their kid's broken arm for 3 days before taking their kid for medical treatment. As far as I'm concerned that is child abuse and it made me both sad and angry to read that.

.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Of course, the other side of that is what recently happened in our house. My eldest was complaining of some pain after a bout with the flu, and I wanted to take him to the urgent care, because the pain didn't sound "normal and flu-like" to me. DH pooh-poohed me, said I was being a fuss-budget, told DS to "buck up", etc. Two days later, DS is in the hospital (emergency) with chest pains. Turns out that pericarditis looks an awful lot like a heart attack when you present at emerg -- and they don't mess around. It can be pretty serious, if not taken care of. Hmmm.... should have probably taken him to a doctor... no, really?

To be fair, DH's mother was a nurse who "pooh-poohed" DH's "sprained" wrist for two days when he was 12, until she actually looked at it and realized it was broken. He and his brother were never "allowed" to be sick, and if they were, they sure didn't get any coddling.

I'm not one for raising wussy boys, and my boys show it -- they are pretty tough (they take their bumps and bruises around here, neither thinks twice about minor cuts and scrapes), but when "mom's instinct" is right... well, better safe than sorry, right?


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Bettacreek said:


> Kids absolutely follow your lead. My youngest is babied to high hell by my parents, and when they're around, he's a snot-nosed brat who cries over everything. My oldest is a little more rounded... He'll fall, scuff himself up to the point that he's bleeding, but he'll pop up, look at me and say "I'm ok!" and run off to do the next fun thing. The youngest will cry if you give him a dirty look (the "DON'T YOU DARE!!!" look). Granted, now that we're not living with my parents anymore, he's gotten SO much better! He knows that the boyfriend will back me up when I correct him, instead of MY parents overriding every correction I make and babying him (GAH). I have to admit that some of the things my kids do to themselves makes my belly churn. Like, when one splits a lip or something, or even worse, when my oldest chipped a tooth. But, I clean it up, allow a short bit of crying, then tell them that it's enough. When they hear "enough", they stop crying and go back to their business. My brother, on the other hand, is waaaaayyyyy too soft on his kids. His daughter is spoiled rotten, never gets corrected, etc. I mean, so spoiled that when I watch her, she expects me to put her on the potty (ain't gonna happen). She's three and a half, and quite capable of getting up on a potty by herself, but she's spoiled and it's easier to make someone else do it. She has finally learned to stop asking me and just goes and gets on the potty by herself, but when her daddy gets here, she demands that he puts her on the potty. Same with her mommy. Drives me crazy!


You may have a point here. I usually have a high pain tolerance. When I had an ectopic pregnancy and my tube ruptured the doctor kept sending me home. Guess I didn't "act" like I was in much pain so they figured I was ok. My DS is a lot like that. He doesn't show much pain, but I think he just keeps it in like I do.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

naturelover said:


> I never raised up my kids to be whoosies and they all had their share of accidents. Small cuts, bumps or bruises - that's no big deal and it's fine to teach children how to properly tend to such minor injuries themselves.
> 
> But there is no way I'm going to neglect kids injuries like broken bones, bad sprains, spreading hematomas, deep lacerations with copious bleeding and hard knocks to the head where there's a high risk of concussion. It's off to the clinic immediately for things like that and while I'll be calmly reassuring and won't fuss over the kid I'm not going to tell them to suck it up either. Tell a kid enough times to suck it up and go look after their own injuries and make them feel ashamed of themself for being frightened then one day they'll be too frightened to approach you when they've suffered a really serious injury.
> 
> ...


I think you are referring to me and I did NOT neglect him. I kept an eye on it. There was no swelling, no discoloration and no sign from DS of pain other than he seemed to favor it. It was not 3 days, but 2.


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## txplowgirl (Oct 15, 2007)

My dad sure didn't fuss over me. If I hurt myself my dad would look at me and tell me go do it again. Unless I had a broken limb or was bleeding like a stuck hog I didn't get any sympathy. My mom would check me out give me a little hug and send me on my way.


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## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

Ok, I don't have much more to add to this thread. LOL 

I do remember when I was a kid, playing in the mud, gettin filthy, etc. 

This whole thread reminded me of this song. 

[YOUTUBE]Jum7DsNZqO0[/YOUTUBE]


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Sonshine said:


> I think you are referring to me and I did NOT neglect him. I kept an eye on it. There was no swelling, no discoloration and no sign from DS of pain other than he seemed to favor it. It was not 3 days, but 2.


I was not referring to you. Maybe you need to read some of the other posts again. 
.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

My 11yr old stepped on a tooth pick Fri. It went about a 1/4" into her foot. She screamed like a stuck pig until we pulled it out and cleaned it up. Then she said the hole is no bigger than a sticker hole and ran off to play. I checked her shot records for her tetanus shot and called the Dr anyway. They said just keep it clean and watch it. She hasn't thought of it since. My MIL would have rushed her to the ER and had her completely freaked.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

naturelover said:


> I was not referring to you. Maybe you need to read some of the other posts again.
> .


Ok, I just re-read them. Maybe the poster that waited 3 days had the same type situation as I did with my DS. He seriously did not act like his arm was very bad and with no swelling or discoloration I really did not believe it was broken. I figured, at the worst he might have a pulled muscle. Could have knocked me over with a feather when the doctor told me the growth bone was broken. I never even heard of a growth bone before. It's been my experience that with breaks there is usually swelling, and I'm not sure why his arm didn't swell, but it didn't, and he kept right on playing.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

naturelover said:


> Tell a kid enough times to suck it up and go look after their own injuries and make them feel ashamed of themself for being frightened then one day they'll be too frightened to approach you when they've suffered a really serious injury.
> 
> 
> 
> .


where does the idea of making someone feel ashamed for being scared come from? 

It isnt to hard with most kids anyway to help them face their fears in such a way they can stand on their own in spite of them. Im sure parents who try this in a poor fashion can do what your saying, but everyone Ive personally met with this mentality didnt do that. Moving forward in the face of fear is a powerful powerful gift to give a child. I know many adults who have major trouble with this to their detriment in some cases severe detriment. 

It isnt about giving a child no support as if they were part of a litter of recently weaned rabbits left to forage themselves and run fast or be eaten. though like I said poor parents who think this way may do basically that. 

Its about giving them just enough support they can stand on their own two feet including emotionally. In my experience it does the exact opposite of leaving them frightened and ashamed. Many of my peers seem emotionally damaged needing support through even normal life events we all face by comparison to those I know who were raised in such a way they can face whatever comes head on, including things they fear, things that inevitably hurt them emotionally and everything in between.

My son (only one of my kids is old enough much Ive said is relevant) knows very well hes loved, and has backup through anything he faces. He also isnt afraid to look his fears in the eye. heck I share MY fears with him. nothing wrong with being afraid. The problem comes when it shuts you down. which it does for a good many I have known. 

Heres an example. My son is afraid of the dark. (he is 5) He also loves hide and seek. So I got into the habit of taking him with me out to our goat pen in the middle of the darkness of the night. His fear never went away, but he loves this. Eventually I go around to asking him if he wants to play hide and seek outside like this. I went slow, keep him excited and answer him if he gets overly excited as he has during this. (so he knows im right there) After several sessions of this I have him running around the hills in our yard in the dark STILL afraid!!! yet happy and in the moment. Who knows if he will ever stop being afraid of the dark. In a wat I kind of am sometimes myself honestly as is my wife. (not the dark of my closet kind of thing, more the dark of some wilderness) It sure never stopped us, and now it wont stop my son. 

Heres another example. He was worried "monsters" might get him. I didnt tell him, monsters dont exist go to sleep. I instead tell him I doubt a monster is here, and take his hand have him look for it with me. when he asked what he should do if it comes out when I leave, I old him to yell for me WHILE he tries to run or fight depending on what is needed. I tell him, if you have a way to fight, fight that mean monster, if you cant fight him, run. All while assuring him I will be heading there to help him IF I was able to hear his calls and I wasnt running or hiding from a monster at the same time. 

I dont want him to think this world has no monsters, because it does. I dont want him to rely on me for help even though I absolutely will be there when he needs it if I can, because the reality is I might not be there when he does need it. I want him to know I would be there if I can, no matter what... I also want him to fight or flight when he doesnt have that support, because on some issue or another that day will come for pretty much everyone. 

Sorry for the long winded post. I had lots to say.  Im not to good at distilling my thoughts into smaller sections and still getting my point across.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

> I've noticed with babies and small children, when they fall down and they're not hurt, they first look to the adults around them to see how they react before deciding if they will cry. Maybe that continues throughout life for some.


And that's how you tell if they're really hurt or not. When kids look around for the reactions in my family, or go Drama Queen, we laugh. The kid laughs. When they're hurt for real, they let me know!

My youngest DD is the most determined. After her first bad landing on her first flight requiring 4 stitches in her forehead, anything involving pain, she would fight the tears, dance around and exclaim, "NO BLOOD, NO BLOOD!" 
Ask what's that running out between her fingers, she would run in and get it patched up on her own. I get to see it when she calms herself down or she calls for me.

Her and I agree next time she needs stitches I will do Superglue and duct tape since the scars on the animals look better than the ones the PA leaves on her. I told him last time she was a little girl, not a mattress.

My last crash & burn, I was striding way too fast, tripped and went face first into a brick building and knocked myself silly. My first though was my cousins weren't there to laugh at me. Second thought was they weren't there to pick my butt up off the sidewalk, either.


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## Kazahleenah (Nov 3, 2004)

It's not always the "Moms" that teach their kids to be "over-the-top-babies".... just want that said. (my Ex coddled his daughter to the extreme) I usually didn't coddle my kids, they were taught to keep their head so to speak. Sometimes, it was a case of "Oh, it'll be OK, a band-aid and you'll be back playing outside, relax."... a few times it was... "We better see a doctor for this, they can help us out." Yes, I would hug them, give the all famous "mommy kisses" and wipe tears. But IMO, to teach kids to completely come unglued over minor injuries etc, is giving them a handicap. As adults, both of my kids are well rounded, kind, and responsible. When my son had a bad car accident last year, the EMS said that if he wouldn't have remained as calm as he did while they worked to free him from the car that his injuries would have been worse/compounded or he could have quite possibly died that day. I do not regret teaching my kids that while it's ok to cry if it hurts, there IS a limit to what crying can/will do, and usually, crying makes it seem worse than it is. Then again, a lot depended on their age at the time.

My son's car after the accident...


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

My son wears his scars like a badge of honor. He has a story for everyone of them.

Great story! Thanks for sharing!!


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

My DD is always complaining that some thing hurts, well one day she was complaing about a lump on her inner thigh, I checked it and yes there was a small lump, figured I would just keep an eye on it. Checked it the next day, still the same. The following morning I was running late for work. Trying to get the kids to day care. DD complains her toe hurts. Told her to buck up and get her shoes on as we were running late. About an hour later day care calls and says her toe is really red and swollen, then it hits. "Is it the same leg with the lump in her thigh?" Yes it is. So it only took me 15 min to get to her, by the time I do there is a red line running up her foot. I rush her to the hospital and the give her some very strong IV antibiotics and send us home with instructions to keep an eye on it. That evening when she come out of the shower, the line has moved to her ankle. Takes 5 min to get to the hospital and the line is now half way up her leg. Called DH to let him know they were admitting her. He was there in 5 min and it's the first time I have seen him cry. We were both so scared for her. She was a trooper though, never cried once. We were in the hospital for 5 days. She even helped pull the IV needles out every time they had to move it. Which was about 8 times. We could have lost her all because of me telling her to buck up. Those words will never come out of my mouth again. Does she complain allot about things yes, but when push comes to shove and she really is hurt or sick, she bucks up with out me having to tell her.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

My oldest DD is Autistic (she's high-functioning/Aspergers) and drama runs in her veins . When I adopted my younger DD she had spent her first 2 1/2 years at an orphanage in India where hard knocks were just a part of life.

I used to always be able to tell who had fallen when I heard the sound of someone wiping out in the house: eldest DD would wail like she was being beaten, younger DD would shout "I okay!" then get up and keep running. Whenever younger DD complains that something hurts, I sit up and pay attention because she's not one to invent a boo-boo to get attention. With eldest DD, I still check her out but in the back of my mind I'm very aware that this is often attention-getting behavior for her.

With my eldest, she looks for an audience. If she hurts herself and I stay calm, she doesn't get so dramatic. When she hurts herself around my Mom (who plays into the drama ) even a slight bump turns into a major ordeal.

My DH was chatting with my Mom one day and eldest DD came running down the stairs to show Grandma something, lost her footing and tumbled down the last few stairs. DH is a cop and has first responder training, and he saw DD look to Grandma (who was freaking out) and start to freak. So he stepped in between Grandma and DD - no more line of sight - and very calmly assessed her to ensure she had no major injuries. Once the audience was gone, DD was much calmer and DH was able to determine that she was fine. When he stepped out of the way to let DD go hug Grandma, the hysterics started  and both of them took a good 20 minutes to get a hold of themselves.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if the adult caring for the child remains calm and carefully assesses the injury, the child learns two things. 1) The adults will take me seriously if I think I have an injury. 2) There's no need to make a mountain out of a molehill.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Merks said:


> My DD is always complaining that some thing hurts, well one day she was complaing about a lump on her inner thigh, I checked it and yes there was a small lump, figured I would just keep an eye on it. Checked it the next day, still the same. The following morning I was running late for work. Trying to get the kids to day care. DD complains her toe hurts. Told her to buck up and get her shoes on as we were running late. About an hour later day care calls and says her toe is really red and swollen, then it hits. "Is it the same leg with the lump in her thigh?" Yes it is. So it only took me 15 min to get to her, by the time I do there is a red line running up her foot. I rush her to the hospital and the give her some very strong IV antibiotics and send us home with instructions to keep an eye on it. That evening when she come out of the shower, the line has moved to her ankle. Takes 5 min to get to the hospital and the line is now half way up her leg. Called DH to let him know they were admitting her. He was there in 5 min and it's the first time I have seen him cry. We were both so scared for her. She was a trooper though, never cried once. We were in the hospital for 5 days. She even helped pull the IV needles out every time they had to move it. Which was about 8 times. We could have lost her all because of me telling her to buck up. Those words will never come out of my mouth again. Does she complain allot about things yes, but when push comes to shove and she really is hurt or sick, she bucks up with out me having to tell her.


What was wrong with her that caused that bad of an event? Sounds nasty.
I'm glad she's okay now.


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## mommathea (May 27, 2009)

lol! Just had a drama moment.  The 3boys age 8,5,3 are out unloading our small trailer of firewood - small branches the neighbor gave us. Well the 8yr old (our drama king) came scratching into the house shouting that the 3yr old had threw a stick and hit the 5yr old in the head. In comes the 5yr old, lightly whimpering, but not crying. I asked him what happened, and asked where he was hurt. He showed me where the piece of wood caught him in the corner of the eye and gave him a bit of road rash. I asked him if it hurt and he said - yea, a little. I asked him if he wanted to wash it off with a cold wash cloth. He said yes, but only if he could look at it first. We went to the bathroom where he climbed up and looked at the mirror. He then asked if he could have a bandaid. I told him no, that you can't put bandaids on your eye. He then got in the drawer, grabbed a wash cloth, wet it, and put it on his eye, and proceed to head back outside to get back to work. 

It it had been the 8yr old who had gotten hurt it would have been WAY more dramatic, even though my response and reply would have been the same exact in dealing with the 5yr old. And the 3yr old would only have come inside if he knew he could get the person in trouble who had hit him, but still not the over the top dramatics of the 8yr old.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Merks said:


> My DD is always complaining that some thing hurts, well one day she was complaing about a lump on her inner thigh, I checked it and yes there was a small lump, figured I would just keep an eye on it. Checked it the next day, still the same. The following morning I was running late for work. Trying to get the kids to day care. DD complains her toe hurts. Told her to buck up and get her shoes on as we were running late. About an hour later day care calls and says her toe is really red and swollen, then it hits. "Is it the same leg with the lump in her thigh?" Yes it is. So it only took me 15 min to get to her, by the time I do there is a red line running up her foot. I rush her to the hospital and the give her some very strong IV antibiotics and send us home with instructions to keep an eye on it. That evening when she come out of the shower, the line has moved to her ankle. Takes 5 min to get to the hospital and the line is now half way up her leg. Called DH to let him know they were admitting her. He was there in 5 min and it's the first time I have seen him cry. We were both so scared for her. She was a trooper though, never cried once. We were in the hospital for 5 days. She even helped pull the IV needles out every time they had to move it. Which was about 8 times. We could have lost her all because of me telling her to buck up. Those words will never come out of my mouth again. Does she complain allot about things yes, but when push comes to shove and she really is hurt or sick, she bucks up with out me having to tell her.


You're right to come to that conclusion for situations like that with no obvious explanation. Just out of curiosity, what was the infection?

For minor injuries that you witness yourself, no need to get all worked up. Even for major injuries, freaking out doesn't help, either in the immediate sense or long term. I wonder if it's possible to learn how to be calm and collected in all situations. I'm naturally that way, but probably got more that way just from life experience.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Sonshine said:


> Ok, I just re-read them. Maybe the poster that waited 3 days had the same type situation as I did with my DS. He seriously did not act like his arm was very bad and with no swelling or discoloration I really did not believe it was broken. I figured, at the worst he might have a pulled muscle. Could have knocked me over with a feather when the doctor told me the growth bone was broken. I never even heard of a growth bone before. It's been my experience that with breaks there is usually swelling, and I'm not sure why his arm didn't swell, but it didn't, and he kept right on playing.


Our son recently broke a finger in baseball. It was a Salter-Harris II fracture, which means the growth plate was broken, and a small flange on the edge of the bone was broken too. He kept on playing for a full inning after the injury, but eventually had to stop because it hurt too bad (he's a catcher and it was on his glove hand - ow!). We iced it and applied a splint and waited until morning to assess it, and even though it wasn't blue and he could still bend it, it was painful and swollen. So we decided to get an X-ray and found that it was fractured. I was proud of him for not freaking out, and proud of us for calmly examining it and deciding to go for medical help when it was more than we could handle confidently.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

I did not read all the posts, will try later.

I'm a Father though and my Belief is raising children to be Independent.
We as society seem to think Age and Ability go hand in hand.
From my childhood , I know this not to be true.
I was always ahead of other kids my Age.
I was always held back because of age though.
I always felt that to be a injustice.
Yes let Kids be kids but if you see them ready for the next step, then they should be allowed to take it.

this is a excerpt from one of my posts on another forum, the thread dealt with some of the issues facing this country. I thought this part may be pertinent here.

"I endeavored to raise my children to be Independent,free thinking,open minded,civil,civic,polite and to defend what they believe to be right. to always put family first and friends second. to love their country but watch their government. to know the rules and laws and to obey them.that work is not a dirty word but to also work smart and not hard. to be proud of their heritage and who they are. to know their history both family and world.

Every generation has it easier then the previous or at least they should. was it easy to instill and promote these things within my children.
No but I did it because they are my responsibility, I love them more then myself and only want the best for them. I believe they have turned out AWESOME! I also believe they are on a pretty even keel which will be a life long effect and these things will be passed to the grandchildren and their well being. that my friend is a legacy.

Now if everyone took this approach with their children (I mean for like the last 50 years) we would be so much better off. but the masses seem to think it better to pass the buck and let the school babysit. Show no real interest in them,make no effort to mold them,or just give up when it becomes hard."


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

Start them young. This book provides some basic ideas.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

My diabetic wife got the flu once and was feeling bad.
She said she needed to go to the hospital -- I forget what I was doing but it was important at the time and complained about her not toughing it out. 
I ended up taking her to the ER where she was put into Intensive care for 3 days for diabetic keto-acidosis (sp?) it really was life threatening -- I listen to her now when she says she's not feeling well.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Wayne02 said:


>


The son who recently broke his finger got that three Christmases ago, and has gotten so much out of it! It's full of great boy-scout-type projects and old fashioned projects, most of which have a small element of danger because they could hurt themselves or get dirty.  It's a GREAT book!


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Kazahleenah said:


> My son's car after the accident...


 I think we can buff that out.... 

Seriously though, glad your son is ok.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

About 8 or 9 years ago, my son walked in to the ER and told them he had broken his arm. Smart alec nurse asked him how he knew it was broken. He told em because he could touch his left elbow with his left hand.


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## wanda1950 (Jan 18, 2009)

It's not good to overreact, of course. But it will pay to see that even small wounds are properly cleaned, medicated & bandaged. Even doing this, my son got cellulitis (swollen with pus & red streaks) many times in his childhood--he was a dirt lover & actually his dad made him a mud hole & mud hill once--every kid around loved it & we'd spray them off with the hose when they finished.

Some people are just more dramatic by nature & some people are more sensitive to pain & fear than others. I think a calm parent (not an unfeeling one) will help but nothing but the Lord Himself can change disposition.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

> originally posted by naturelover
> 
> "...... while I'll be calmly reassuring and won't fuss over the kid I'm not going to tell them to suck it up either. Tell a kid enough times to suck it up and go look after their own injuries and make them feel ashamed of themself for being frightened then one day they'll be too frightened to approach you when they've suffered a really serious injury.





silverseeds said:


> where does the idea of making someone feel ashamed for being scared come from?
> 
> It isnt to hard with most kids anyway to help them face their fears in such a way they can stand on their own in spite of them......


You're right, it shouldn't be too hard to help kids face their fears but for a lot of parents it is. My full statement that I made (above) - you focused on asking me where does the idea of shame come from, while the emphasis on my part really is that *I will never tell a child to suck it up*. The only people that I might tell to suck it up are ignorant, whiny, complaining adults that I think are being unreasonable or using poor judgement. Young children should never be relied upon to use good judgement or make good judgement calls for themselves. Even if they are capable of using good judgement, adults should not rely on young children to do so.

Where the idea of a child being ashamed for being frightened comes from is from dealing with the numerous abused or neglected children that came through my home in years gone by when I was foster parenting. Kids that had been ignored or told to "suck it up and quit whining" and even slapped around enough times for complaining (about whatever) that the end result was they were made afraid to approach their parents with even the most serious of concerns or maladies. Hungry and malnourished kids with poor immune systems who were afraid to tell their parents that they were still hungry. Beat up and bullied kids that had to endure older siblings abusing them. Kids that were afraid to open their mouthes to talk about anything even casually for fear of being told to shut up because they're being stupid and don't know what they're talking about. Kids that had been told over and over again that children were made to be seen but not heard. Kids with fractures or other injuries that never got medically attended to because their parents decided they were minor home accidents and the kids didn't show evidence of injury or complain about their pain .... because the kids had been shamed about showing fear and shamed for going to their parents for support.

So I don't care what the child is complaining about or if he's having what I think are unreasonable tantrums or hysterics - I will show respect and never, ever tell a child to suck it up because telling a child to suck it up makes them feel ashamed. I will be calm and reassuring and not feed into their fears. I will help walk them through their fears and teach them that fear is their own worst enemy but I won't downplay their fears whether they're real fears or not. 

I will teach them how to look after minor injuries but will always insist on them bringing their injuries to me first so I can examine their injuries and determine for myself it it's something the child can attend to - before saying "yes, it's okay for you to go clean it up yourself and put a bandaid on it" or "no, this is too complicated for you, it's something I need to fix up for you" or "get in the car, we're going to the doctor now".

.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Sonshine said:


> Ok, I just re-read them. Maybe the poster that waited 3 days had the same type situation as I did with my DS..... .


Maybe, maybe not. At least you had the decency to explain and defend here what you and your child's situation was after you thought I was referring to you. Whereas with the other person I have yet to hear why it was so nonchalantly tossed off that one child needed a forgotten icepack and the parent didn't know the reason for it, why one had a broken arm that didn't get attended to for 3 days, and why a 12 y.o. lost 5 teeth in one month and the parent didn't know about it or notice it until she 'overheard' it. By about age 12 the majority of children have already lost all of their baby teeth and have a full set of permanent teeth. To lose 5 permanent teeth in one month at such an early age should be cause for concern to a parent. It's not like they're going to grow a second set of adult teeth to replace the ones they just lost and it's not something for a parent to be nonchalant about or expect their child to be nonchalant about. Why did the child lose the teeth and the parent not notice it? Was it because of accidents or was it because of malnutrition and neglect? Or what? Taken altogether, all of those 3 incidents and lack of parental observation or concern are all things that make my "neglect" alarm bells ring and I have concerns about _why_ things like that have happened when given no explanation for it. I don't think I'm being unreasonable in my concerns.

I'm not asking her for an explanation either, just like I didn't ask you for your explanation - you took that upon yourself (although I do appreciate your courtesy). I do, however, think the other parent needs to be more careful about what and how she posts things and not expect people to read her mind if she doesn't want to arouse suspicions of neglect.

.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

naturelover said:


> The only people that I might tell to suck it up are ignorant, whiny, complaining adults that I think are being unreasonable or using poor judgement.
> .


How do you think they got that way? 

I only quoted the part of your post relevant to what I was saying.


> I will show respect and never, ever tell a child to suck it up because telling a child to suck it up makes them feel ashamed.


I cant agree. abusing them is a lot different then telling them to suck it up, the times sucking it up is what they need. Even kids need the reality check from time to time you say you offer adults. 

Lots more Id love to say, but I will keep it there.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

I think there's a big difference between telling a child to suck it up and telling a teenager to suck it up. And I believe you can say it in a loving way that gets the point across without being hurtful. But I'm not a parent (I do have two of them) so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Luckily, my sisters and I, aren't 'free bleeders'. Can't ever recall parent's taking us to the ER for cuts... squeeze it, make it bleed, and if it was real bad, put a bandaid on it, and enjoy the scarring. We didn't get tattoos growing up, but plenty of scar tissue...


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

All you modern folks amaze me We got a cut Granny stuck it in coal oil she called it, Kerosene to the city folks .You didn't get sick for fear of the cure and should you slide into bad health a few drops of turpentine on a spoon of sugar would fix it . :clap::clap:


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Sawmill Jim said:


> All you modern folks amaze me We got a cut Granny stuck it in coal oil she called it, Kerosene to the city folks .You didn't get sick for fear of the cure and should you slide into bad health a few drops of turpentine on a spoon of sugar would fix it . :clap::clap:


My Dad tells of those remedies, and so did my uncles. Seems to be the remedies of moms choice in the 30's - 40's timeframe.


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## candyknitter (Apr 23, 2009)

I absolutely love the way you told this story - brilliant! 

I used to be quite tough on stuff like this ("Oh well, nvm, get up and get on with it") but I am just like your wife now - fear kicks in! 
What happened was when I was 19 my mom came back from a holiday in Greece and said she had a headache and went to bed. Now my mum was always quite a drama queen so sis and I left her to it. We popped in with cups of tea and offers of food etc but she kept moaning about feeling bad, tired etc. Sis said to me "She just had 2 weeks relaxing while we've been working hard, and still she moans"
About six the next morning I went to visit the bathroom and found mom lying on the floor in the hall. I asked her what she was doing there and she said she had been to the bathroom and then felt to dizzy to make it back to bed. I said I'd help her back and she said "No just leave me here..." so I thought typical mom being dramatic and basically just stepped over her and left her there.
A few hours later we decided enough was enough and called out the doctor. He had mom rushed to an isolation hospital, turned out she had bacterial meningitis! 
Boy did we feel bad, but the thing was she ALWAYS acted like that, even with a splinter or earache - how could we have known?! Anyway now I make double-triple sure if anyones ill just in case I mess up again.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

ryanthomas said:


> You're right to come to that conclusion for situations like that with no obvious explanation. Just out of curiosity, what was the infection?
> 
> For minor injuries that you witness yourself, no need to get all worked up. Even for major injuries, freaking out doesn't help, either in the immediate sense or long term. I wonder if it's possible to learn how to be calm and collected in all situations. I'm naturally that way, but probably got more that way just from life experience.


She had gotten a very small cut on her toe, that she never told me about and it got infected and she got blood poisoning. I'm pretty shure she never told me because I had gotten so sick and tiered of her complaining, My tummy hurts, head, hand, fingure.... you get they idea and this has been a daily thing for the years. I just started basically blowing it off. Well she has learned a good lesson since this happened and does not complain so much and comes to me when something really is hurting or did happen.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

Graham said:


> "Does it hurt?"
> "Yes!"
> "Good"
> "What?"
> ...


You reminded me of a saying my grandma used to say to us kids when we got hurt...

"you know what pain is?"

"what"

"God's way of telling you don't do that again"


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

My knee doc said:
Let pain be your guide. If it hurts, don't do that.
Seems simple enough


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

candyknitter said:


> I absolutely love the way you told this story - brilliant!
> 
> I used to be quite tough on stuff like this ("Oh well, nvm, get up and get on with it") but I am just like your wife now - fear kicks in!
> What happened was when I was 19 my mom came back from a holiday in Greece and said she had a headache and went to bed. Now my mum was always quite a drama queen so sis and I left her to it. We popped in with cups of tea and offers of food etc but she kept moaning about feeling bad, tired etc. Sis said to me "She just had 2 weeks relaxing while we've been working hard, and still she moans"
> ...


All the more reason to teach your kids not to cry wolf unless there's actually a wolf. When someone always complains or is dramatic about harmless stuff, we tend to ignore their whining when they really need our help.


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## candyknitter (Apr 23, 2009)

ryanthomas said:


> All the more reason to teach your kids not to cry wolf unless there's actually a wolf. When someone always complains or is dramatic about harmless stuff, we tend to ignore their whining when they really need our help.


Oh absolutely, if she hadn't cried wolf so many times before then we would never have been so dismissive. I just wanted to show that even whiney people are sometimes genuinely in a bad way. Invalid though did the right thing in checking out the situation before seeing it was a fuss about nothing.


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

I have been reading the posts and I must say I am quite disturbed at the suck it up, grow a pair, be a man, toughen up, wimp etc comments.

My husband faints when he gets blood drawn, gagged when he changed diapers and if you vomit he vomits right along with you. And the coddling required with a cold or a paper cut is quite funny. But he is a brave man. Just because a person (adult or child) wants to be comforted when they are injured is no reason to demean them.

When I was a child our neighbour treated his son to all the nasty comments - and more - I listed above. Admittedly he was a 12 year old boy who cried when he fell down or really banged his head and could really put up a show - but so what? Stuff hurts. 

One day we went on a picnic with both families. The young sister of this boy fell into the river and got swept away. Without a second's hesitation HE jumped in to try and save her. His father, MR MACHO, ran up and down the shore but did nothing. He could not swim. Neither could the boy. My Dad and Mom jumped in and pulled both of them out. I was never so scared in my life. All of us kids were wailing and carrying on including the nearly drowned siblings. Now you would think the father would have been proud of his son. Nope. Treated him even worse. It did not matter. To all of us it was clear who was the wimp.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

pumpkin said:


> Just because a person (adult or child) wants to be comforted when they are injured is no reason to demean them.


I didnt happen to catch anyone doing that or suggesting it should be done myself.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

We've raised four daughters, no sons. We did raise them to be tough. But on one occasion I broke down and cried (later after it was over).

Our DD had a severe compound break in her forearm from getting bucked off a horse and had to have it pinned. I had DH go with her when it was time to have the pins removed as I just didn't feel I wanted to be there. About a half hour later he came and got me, she'd requested me. I went in and there were tears running down her face and I could see the pain that she'd been in while they were trying to unscrew those pins. I sat there and comforted her through the process, then I completely broke down when we got home. 

I was there years later with her for the birth of our first grandchild and saw how tough a gal, how really in control she was. But I am now of the opinion that removing pins from a bone needs to be done under a heck of a lot more anesthesia than it is!


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

silverseeds said:


> I didnt happen to catch anyone doing that or suggesting it should be done myself.


Actually that seems to have been the whole theme of the thread. Suck it up, be a man, shake it off, walk it off, wimp, baby, ignore the whiner, crying wolf. All those are demeaning comments and don't offer much comfort. Just watch a child's face when any one of those things is said to them.

And "be a man" is wrong anyways. If you are talking about enduring pain then an accurate instruction would be "be a woman" since women bear pain better than men.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

ya what ever

pretty sexist comment there.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

To each his/her own. Raise your kids how you wish.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

pumpkin said:


> Just watch a child's face when any one of those things is said to them.


I do. Which is why I see no validity to what you are saying. Some parents do demean their kids in that way but in my experience that is a small minority, and the same parents demean them in other ways as well. 

In all honesty Im a bit baffled by your stance. I guess time will tell whos children will be best able to face life on its own terms. We have much of a whole generation raised as you suggest imo its failing horrendously. Valuable life skills babied right out of them.


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

silverseeds said:


> I do. Which is why I see no validity to what you are saying. Some parents do demean their kids in that way but in my experience that is a small minority, and the same parents demean them in other ways as well.
> 
> In all honesty Im a bit baffled by your stance. I guess time will tell whos children will be best able to face life on its own terms. We have much of a whole generation raised as you suggest imo its failing horrendously. Valuable life skills babied right out of them.


My stance is one of experience and observation. As I said in my first post I don't baby anyone - but I do have respect for everyone. 

To humiliate a child serves no purpose and the type of comments made (as I listed before) are intended to do just this.

I don't believe in this gender nonsense. Everyone needs to be able to take care of themselves and their children and wives or husbands - both housework and farm work.

The children we raised are all on their own now. Paid their own way through University with hard work, have good jobs and are devoted to their families. And they are bringing up their kids in our way. I guess it worked.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

I find it amazing that a valid topic can be totally invalidated with black and white thinking.

Childhood is too short to let kids waste it on hystrionics. Teach your children to self-comfort and self-assess their boo-boos. Ya'll have a lot more fun and adventures, be happier and become well adjusted adults when you don't coddle the Baby Within.

As far as missing serious medical problems, even doctors miss some big ones. That doesn't make it neglect.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Please consider that not everyone posting on this thread, has the same cultural background and they may find one way not the way they were brought up.


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## fishinshawn (Nov 8, 2010)

InvalidID said:


> So this weekend we were BBQing and needed more wood for the fire. My SS/14 went out to split down some of our firewood into nice thin BBQ sized pieces. While doing so he had a splinter bounce up an clip him in the cheek. It was a pretty good size and left an ugly little cut.
> 
> When it hit him he instantly dropped to the ground like he'd just taken sniper fire. Of course everyone goes running over to check on him, and his mother rushes him into the house to doctor him up. Not knowing exactly what has happened I do a quick search of the area to make sure he hasn't chopped a finger off or something. When no missing parts are found, and no sign of blood or gore I go in to check on him.
> 
> ...


I am constantly fighting about this with my wife.:smack


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

pumpkin said:


> To humiliate a child serves no purpose and the type of comments made (as I listed before) are intended to do just this.


I find this pretty offensive actually. Wanting a child to face life head on has nothing to do with humiliation.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

Culture and cultural survivalism. Right off the top, the last culture to coddle infantile behavior in those who were not infants were the French Royalty. They did not survive the Revolution.


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

silverseeds said:


> I find this pretty offensive actually. Wanting a child to face life head on has nothing to do with humiliation.


The words used - suck it up, grow a pair, be a man, toughen up, wimp, baby, whiner - ARE very offensive. There is nothing character building in those words. You don't have to use demeaning language to encourage a child to face life head on. People today just accept crude language. Very sad considering the English language is so rich.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Give it up as a lost cause pumpkin. :sob: Some people are just not ever going to grasp the concept.

eep:

.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

pumpkin said:


> The words used - suck it up, grow a pair, be a man, toughen up, wimp, baby, whiner - ARE very offensive. There is nothing character building in those words. You don't have to use demeaning language to encourage a child to face life head on. People today just accept crude language. Very sad considering the English language is so rich.


 Different strokes for different folks is all I can say. Some of us believe there is a time and a place to tell a child to suck it up and be a man. Part of being a parent is doing the hard things, the unpleasant things, and yes; sometimes what would appear to be the mean things. 

As for the words being very offensive... You raise yours as you see fit and we'll raise ours as we do. I think the whole participation trophy mentality is offensive. This isn't the family forum, this is S&EP. We're not PC here and I don't see that changing anytime soon.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

pumpkin said:


> The words used - suck it up, grow a pair, be a man, toughen up, wimp, baby, whiner - ARE very offensive. There is nothing character building in those words. You don't have to use demeaning language to encourage a child to face life head on. People today just accept crude language. Very sad considering the English language is so rich.


I agree that the name calling is not called for, however, the whole theme of not coddling them makes sense to me. When our DS was small and learning to walk, when he fell I didn't run over to him and make a fuss over him, but told him to get up and try again. Of course I was watching and knew if he had hurt himself or just got startled. When he got older and got the flu I would treat him and hug him, but discouraged the crying and hysterics I've seen other kids displayed. I think parents can go overboard in their attempt to protect their children. Children have to learn that there are times we aren't going to feel well or that we are going to get a cut or a bruise. It's not the end of the world, but they will react to how we respond. If we panic, then they will too and as they grow they will always respond in a panic to every little mishap in their lives. Life is hard, it's best to prepare our children for real life.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

There is no excuse to ridicule a child. When mine wasn't hurt badly, I just looked and told him he'd live. Name calling is not called for.

Incidentally, little girls ought to be taught to cowboy up, too, but no need to ridicule little girls, either.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

oregon woodsmok said:


> There is no excuse to ridicule a child. When mine wasn't hurt badly, I just looked and told him he'd live. Name calling is not called for.
> 
> Incidentally, little girls ought to be taught to cowboy up, too, but no need to ridicule little girls, either.


 Is telling a kid to buck up ridicule? I think it's not.


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

InvalidID said:


> Different strokes for different folks is all I can say. Some of us believe there is a time and a place to tell a child to suck it up and be a man. Part of being a parent is doing the hard things, the unpleasant things, and yes; sometimes what would appear to be the mean things.
> 
> As for the words being very offensive... You raise yours as you see fit and we'll raise ours as we do. I think the whole participation trophy mentality is offensive. This isn't the family forum, this is S&EP. We're not PC here and I don't see that changing anytime soon.


As I wrote in my original post I do not baby anyone. Everyone must pull their weight. No one in our family gets a prize just for showing up and being able to breathe in and breathe out. You earn your way. You are praised and you are reprimanded as the circumstances demand. The circumstances for a reprimand to a child never require demeaning words. 

I don't care about being PC. In fact tell me to "suck it up' and you would be sucking your pureed steak through a straw. Vulgar threats aside - what I am talking about is simply good manners. If you want to talk like a rough and uneducated person to your child then that is your right to raise your child as you see fit. Personally we have never found the need to use bullying words. I am sure that your child would grow up to be just as tough and strong if you say to him/her "take a breath, the pain will go away" instead of "suck it up, be a man, grow a pair". But again - your choice.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

pumpkin said:


> As I wrote in my original post I do not baby anyone. Everyone must pull their weight. No one in our family gets a prize just for showing up and being able to breathe in and breathe out. You earn your way. You are praised and you are reprimanded as the circumstances demand. The circumstances for a reprimand to a child never require demeaning words.
> 
> I don't care about being PC. In fact tell me to "suck it up' and you would be sucking your pureed steak through a straw. Vulgar threats aside - what I am talking about is simply good manners. If you want to talk like a rough and uneducated person to your child then that is your right to raise your child as you see fit. Personally we have never found the need to use bullying words. I am sure that your child would grow up to be just as tough and strong if you say to him/her "take a breath, the pain will go away" instead of "suck it up, be a man, grow a pair". But again - your choice.


 An internet tough guy huh? That's so cute. But moving along...

Interesting you'd choose the words vulgar and uneducated. Did you bother to read the OP all the way through?

ETA: If you got a splinter and acted like you were crossing over... Yes, I would make fun of you, a grown man (woman?). If you had the grits to get up and crack me in the jaw I'd laugh and ask why you were acting like a baby in the first place.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

pumpkin said:


> Actually that seems to have been the whole theme of the thread. *Suck it up, be a man, shake it off, walk it off, wimp, baby, ignore the whiner, crying wolf*. All those are demeaning comments and don't offer much comfort. Just watch a child's face when any one of those things is said to them.
> 
> And "be a man" is wrong anyways. If you are talking about enduring pain then an accurate instruction would be "be a woman" since women bear pain better than men.


Likely you'd be offended 95% of the time in these parts then. :shrug:

But, you'd "get over it" soon enough.:nana:


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

time said:


> Likely you'd be offended 95% of the time in these parts then. :shrug:
> 
> But, you'd "get over it" soon enough.:nana:


Yep there are sharks in these waters and sometimes travel in schools :awh:



And crock's too :croc::runforhills:


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

InvalidID said:


> An internet tough guy huh? That's so cute. But moving along...
> 
> Interesting you'd choose the words vulgar and uneducated. Did you bother to read the OP all the way through?
> 
> ETA: If you got a splinter and acted like you were crossing over... Yes, I would make fun of you, a grown man (woman?). If you had the grits to get up and crack me in the jaw I'd laugh and ask why you were acting like a baby in the first place.


Yup. Tough on the internet, on the telephone, by letter post, in person and probably in a text message if I used texting (even with only 160 characters at my disposal) - and cute with it. 

I did read the OP. Not impressed.

I long ago ceased to accept the often ridiculous strutting and posturing of supposed real men - and women - who take pride in the use of offensive language as they "parent" their children. 

No where in my posts did I say that there is not a need to check a child who is going over board on the drama. All I have said is that there is no need to use offensive and derogatory language while doing it.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

pumpkin said:


> Yup. Tough on the internet, on the telephone, by letter post, in person and probably in a text message if I used texting (even with only 160 characters at my disposal) - and cute with it.
> 
> I did read the OP. Not impressed.
> 
> ...


 You're not PC, you just don't like that I used the word ass when talking to my kid.... :smack That's the definition of PC isn't it? Don't say anything offensive or derogatory? Allow me to share MY personal definition of politically correct:

The way we speak in America so as not to offend all the whining, . 

Maybe Angie will ding me for this one but I really think you need to get over yourself.


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

InvalidID said:


> You're not PC, you just don't like that I used the word ass when talking to my kid.... :smack That's the definition of PC isn't it? Don't say anything offensive or derogatory? Allow me to share MY personal definition of politically correct:
> 
> The way we speak in America so as not to offend all the whining, .
> 
> Maybe Angie will ding me for this one but I really think you need to get over yourself.


You are absolutely correct. I do not like the culture of vulgarity that is completely accepted now. It serves no purpose. It does not make a child better, stronger or tougher. Just teaches them to be as coarse. An intelligent and decent person can say what needs to be said without offensive, derogatory or demeaning language. In other words "use your big boy words". However if it makes you feel powerful to call a child an ass go ahead.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

This thread has made me very sad!

<BG> In 1946,(I was four-years-old) I had polio. As part of my rehabilitation, I had to go for what they called "exercise". The exercise was a lot of stretching by so-called therapists and it HURT!!!

As a reward for NOT crying during that torture my parents would buy me an ice cream cone. Once a therapist even told me to stop crying or he'd give me something to cry about! In other words, I had to hold my pain and tears in or I'd be punished. <End>.

I wonder to this day how different my life would have been if I'd learned to express my fears and pain and been comforted by my parents.

For God's sake, comfort your children when they're hurt. A hug won't kill either of you!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Ardie - sorry for your situation, but
don't you think making a federal case out of a splinter, and playing it up for all it's worth, is just a bit different than your situation?

No one here has said to be gruff to anyone with a real hurt, or issue. But those drama prince and princess need a kick in the seat once in awhile, to make sure they don't grow up to be powder puffs and useless bublle wrapped people.

Not one person here has said to do it most of the time, but occasionally - a good swift kick in the seat, even if verbal would do wonders that coddling will not accomplish. And we are becoming more of a coddling society that needs "big daddy" go take care of them. 

This forum is for people that want to raise self sufficient, strong people; not wuzzes.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

pumpkin said:


> You are absolutely correct. I do not like the culture of vulgarity that is completely accepted now. It serves no purpose. It does not make a child better, stronger or tougher. Just teaches them to be as coarse. An intelligent and decent person can say what needs to be said without offensive, derogatory or demeaning language. In other words "use your big boy words". However if it makes you feel powerful to call a child an ass go ahead.


 Oddly enough the big boy (That's you) is acting like a child. I was willing to let this go at different strokes for different folks but you and your decency seem unable to accept that. For someone that preaches manners, political correctness, and decency I sure am confused to your inability to accept different cultures... 

You also seem unable to read for comprehension, (you're the educated, intelligent one right?) as I never called the boy an ass, I told him to get off his. Which University did you attend? 

Anyway, you've proven to be a hypocrite and dishonest which makes me bored. We're done here.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

AngieM2 said:


> Ardie - sorry for your situation, but
> don't you think making a federal case out of a splinter, and playing it up for all it's worth, is just a bit different than your situation?
> 
> No one here has said to be gruff to anyone with a real hurt, or issue. But those drama prince and princess need a kick in the seat once in awhile, to make sure they don't grow up to be powder puffs and useless bublle wrapped people.
> ...


 :Hugs: :goodjob:

ETA: Ang, I think you nailed it here. For some reason a few people seem stuck on the crazy idea that we're talking about trash talking a child whenever they are hurt, which I don't recall anyone saying. It would appear that there are a few folks that wish to see to see the worst in their fellow man no matter what. Quite a shame really.


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

InvalidID said:


> Oddly enough the big boy (That's you) is acting like a child. I was willing to let this go at different strokes for different folks but you and your decency seem unable to accept that. For someone that preaches manners, political correctness, and decency I sure am confused to your inability to accept different cultures...
> 
> You also seem unable to read for comprehension, (you're the educated, intelligent one right?) as I never called the boy an ass, I told him to get off his. Which University did you attend?
> 
> Anyway, you've proven to be a hypocrite and dishonest which makes me bored. We're done here.


And this last post of yours clearly shows that the OP was your way of showing off to the world what you thought was an impressive lesson in parenting and that you just cannot accept that anyone would not think that your way was impressive or correct. 

No where in my posts did I say that there is not a need to check a child who is going over board on the drama. All I have said is that there is no need to use offensive and derogatory language while doing it. 

Using the term wuzzes or whiner or wimp is disrespectful. Using such language all you teach a child is that they are not worthy of respect and common courtesy. Do you speak to your wife that way? A co-worker? If you do then I do not wonder that you think it is just fine to talk to a child that way. 

Disrespect breeds disrespect. An intelligent person knows this and can teach the lesson of self reliance without resorting to such vulgar words. But then again if you think that vulgarity is an important part of your culture so be it.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

pumpkin said:


> Disrespect breeds disrespect. An intelligent person knows this and can teach the lesson of self reliance without resorting to such vulgar words. But then again if you think that vulgarity is an important part of your culture so be it.


And this is a prime backhanded insult to all those that does not believe as the poster believes. Done with such a smooth delivery, and even intelligence. Shows how well an intelligent person can insult without getting to the short and sweet comments. And even to saying vulagarity is an important part of "your" culture - such a nice insult. So intelligent and clever. Vularity would be using words that would get infraction points, telling someone even an older child to get over a minor wound, is not vulgar.

So, we have someone apparently not from USA, insulting our culture. That's intelligent also.

I think this is such a hypocritical outlook -


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

And PS to all the rest.... just as one American posting does not represent anyone other than themself ; does not represent the country over all; please do not let those that put us down and make insults to our way represent anyone other than themself and only themself.


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## jbowyer01 (Aug 4, 2008)

jessimeredith said:


> Standard of operation in our house:
> 
> "Are you bleeding?"
> "Yes."
> ...


This is pretty much the standard in our house LOL. Except my final sentence is "is there bone sticking out?" if not stop crying.


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

AngieM2 said:


> And this is a prime backhanded insult to all those that does not believe as the poster believes. Done with such a smooth delivery, and even intelligence. Shows how well an intelligent person can insult without getting to the short and sweet comments. And even to saying vulagarity is an important part of "your" culture - such a nice insult. So intelligent and clever. Vularity would be using words that would get infraction points, telling someone even an older child to get over a minor wound, is not vulgar.
> 
> So, we have someone apparently not from USA, insulting our culture. That's intelligent also.
> 
> I think this is such a hypocritical outlook -


You are mistaken. It was not a backhanded insult. It was a direct comment. Too subtle perhaps. 

And I did not bring up culture. I believe you sniped first.


AngieM2 said:


> Please consider that not everyone posting on this thread, has the same cultural background and they may find one way not the way they were brought up.


I was discussing the upbringing of children which is a universal subject. And apparently there are Americans who do feel the same way as I do so why did YOU find it necessary to make this a thing about country and culture?


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

pumpkin said:


> I long ago ceased to accept the often ridiculous strutting and posturing of supposed real men - and women - who take pride in the use of offensive language as they "parent" their children.


I long ago ceased to accept the often ridiculous strutting and posturing of those who are convinced they are of higher intelligence than other people with whom they disagree.


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## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

partndn said:


> I long ago ceased to accept the often ridiculous strutting and posturing of those who are convinced they are of higher intelligence than other people with whom they disagree.


I agree with you.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

not sure how, but...

you did bring up a subject that's a big concern for me:
swimming and the danger of having no training.


Anyone else here know NON swimmers? I don't mean you need competition skills or big recognized letters after your name.
I mean, if someone was drowning, getting swept away, injured and fell in, whatever, can everyone swim well enough to be of some help?

I think it's an incredibly dangerous state to be helpless in the water. I do not know what that's like. Fortunately, almost everyone I know was put in the water before they have any memory. It's something I took to easy and was able to have many other trainings throughout my life.

_Fear is a killer quick when it comes to water._ I say get your kids in the water when they are too small to have any fear, and let them grow from there.

A child of say- 8 or 10 who is terribly afraid of water is such a sad thing to see. AFTER they have developed the fear, it takes a lot of patience and much, much re-exposure to get over that.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

partndn said:


> not sure how, but...
> 
> you did bring up a subject that's a big concern for me:
> swimming and the danger of having no training.
> ...


 I send my kids to a swimming camp every summer for just this reason. Well, that and the kids love it... LOL


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

InvalidID said:


> I send my kids to a swimming camp every summer for just this reason. Well, that and the kids love it... LOL


I put my son in the infant swim research class. He learned to swim before he was out of diapers. Of course, mine wasn't because he feared the water, but he loved it so much I was afraid he'd jump into a pool before I could catch him.  Now he swims like a fish and you can't keep him out of the water.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Sonshine said:


> I put my son in the infant swim research class. He learned to swim before he was out of diapers. Of course, mine wasn't because he feared the water, but he loved it so much I was afraid he'd jump into a pool before I could catch him.  Now he swims like a fish and you can't keep him out of the water.


 Maybe someday we'll be cheering for him at the Olympics! His name isn't Ryan or Mike is it? ound:


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

AngieM2 said:


> And PS to all the rest.... just as one American posting does not represent anyone other than themself ; does not represent the country over all; please do not let those that put us down and make insults to our way represent anyone other than themself and only themself.


 I think most of us here are intelligent enough to know that there are self righteous people on every continent. Lord knows we have our fair share of them here in the States.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

I have another thought for all the parents reading this thread.

The very children that you are raising now might just become your primary caregivers when you're old and helpless. They will treat you as you treated them when they were children! When you have pain, they will react to you just as you did when they were in pain or lonely or confused or disappointed. 

Something to think about...


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

InvalidID said:


> Maybe someday we'll be cheering for him at the Olympics! His name isn't Ryan or Mike is it? ound:


LOL, unfortunately, no. Although he's good at taikwondo too, something else I signed him up for at an early age. DH had been activated after 9/11 and I was afraid that with DH gone that DS would end up being too much of a sissy, being raised by just me, so I put him in taikwondo. He loves it! He's 14 now and still going strong. Broke his first board when he was 6 and has several trophies from competing. When we first moved to GA I got aggravated at the sensei. It was a woman who thought because DS was a special needs child that she should let him get away with not doing his forms properly. I pulled him from her pretty quick and now have him in a studio that makes him perform just like the others. He's never competed against special needs kids, but in regular competitions and has done well. Why make him go easy when I know what he's capable of?


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

pumpkin said:


> You are mistaken. It was not a backhanded insult. It was a direct comment. Too subtle perhaps.
> 
> And I did not bring up culture. I believe you sniped first.
> 
> I was discussing the upbringing of children which is a universal subject. And apparently there are Americans who do feel the same way as I do so why did YOU find it necessary to make this a thing about country and culture?


I _love_ this reply!

Your post, Pumpkin, was post #133. In that post you directly said "But then again, if you think that vulgarity is an important part of your culture so be it."

Angie replied to it in post #134, then added an addendum in post #135.

Your reply was post #137, which is the one I've quoted and underlined.

So, _she_ brought it up, not you -- but _you_ are the one who posted first, mentioned it first, and insulted first, as anyone who looks back can see.

All Angie did was make sure that it was clear that she was point out the flaws of _one poster_, not an entire group of people, however large or small that group might be. _You_ are the one doing the insulting, but it's all _her_ fault. Nice trick!


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Ardie/WI said:


> I have another thought for all the parents reading this thread.
> 
> The very children that you are raising now might just become your primary caregivers when you're old and helpless. They will treat you as you treated them when they were children! When you have pain, they will react to you just as you did when they were in pain or lonely or confused or disappointed.
> 
> Something to think about...


I can only pray that my DS treats me as I have treated him through the years. I have shown him love, but have encouraged him to stand up on his own two feet. I have also not given in to tantrums. I've had some say I was too hard on DS and expect too much of him, but according to his developmental specialist, he's one of the most well rounded kids he's ever seen. Most kids with learning disabilities are not pushed to do their best, but are given a pass because "they can't do it". I refuse to give my DS a pass. He will always have an uphill battle. He's got learning disabilities, such as a pragmatic language delay, both expressive and receptive. He's been called names from some bullies in the neighborhood (in the past, not so much now) he's often misunderstood. He's also bi-racial, which is also a point against him in most places, in fact he was put up for adoption as a special needs child, not because of his learning disabilities, but because he was bi-racial. If I don't love him enough to make him a fighter he will always depend on others for everything in his life. I prefer to equip him to survive and hope that when I am unable to take care of myself he will encourage and if need be badger me to push beyond what I'm comfortable with.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Narshalla said:


> I _love_ this reply!
> 
> Your post, Pumpkin, was post #133. In that post you directly said "But then again, if you think that vulgarity is an important part of your culture so be it."
> 
> ...


The first reference to culture was post #112. Not hers. She expressed a different opinion and outlook at the way people speak to children. She did not make this about nation or culture. She just responded. If you can dish it you should be able to take it. Apparently not.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

This thread (and Sonshines last post especially) got me thinking about a poem. It was quoted in the movie Act Of Valor as having been written by Tecumseh but I've seen it attributed to Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse as well.
*
So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. 
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. 
Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people.
Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide.
Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, even a stranger, when in a lonely place. 
Show respect to all people and grovel to none. 
When you arise in the morning give thanks for the food and for the joy of living. 
If you see no reason for giving thanks, the fault lies only in yourself. 
Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision. 
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. 
Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.*


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

emdeengee said:


> The first reference to culture was post #112. Not hers. She expressed a different opinion and outlook at the way people speak to children. She did not make this about nation or culture. She just responded. If you can dish it you should be able to take it. Apparently not.


A call for all posters to respect other cultures is not equal to a a backhanded insult to the culture of a person who disagrees with you (generic you, not you specifically.)


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

Ardie/WI said:


> I have another thought for all the parents reading this thread.
> 
> The very children that you are raising now might just become your primary caregivers when you're old and helpless. They will treat you as you treated them when they were children! When you have pain, they will react to you just as you did when they were in pain or lonely or confused or disappointed.
> 
> Something to think about...


I suspect the parents in this thread treat their children quite compassionately when they are truely in need.

I would hope that my children allow me to be a person when I age and not coddle me. I see the frustration in the old folks who's kids hardly allow them to live. "You shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that." "Your too old to be at home alone".

Once a man, twice a baby.

I do hope my kids don't coddle me. If they try, I'll wander off.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Sonshine said:


> I put my son in the infant swim research class. He learned to swim before he was out of diapers. Of course, mine wasn't because he feared the water, but he loved it so much I was afraid he'd jump into a pool before I could catch him.  Now he swims like a fish and you can't keep him out of the water.


Yay! Way to go! :goodjob:

In the sea-side fishing town I was born in there had been so many drownings of both children and adults (before I was born), the town finally built an aquatics center with a competition sized pool next to the conjoined elementary and high school. After the aquatics center was built it was made mandatory for all infants to start swimming lessons at the age of 6 months and all other children of all ages in school were required to learn to swim and to keep up with their swimming. 

Continuance of swimming lessons became part of the school curriculum for all grades, right up to grade 12. There were swim classes for all students every week. It wasn't made mandatory for adults to learn to swim but all non-swimmer adults were strongly encouraged to take swimming lessons and parents were encouraged to participate with the swimming lessons of their children. 

My favourite school day of each week was the day we went for swim classes. After a few short years it eventually became a point of pride for the whole town to be able to claim that every resident of the town was a strong swimmer and knew what to do in the event of an emergency in the water. Those mandatory swimming lessons ended up saving a lot of lives.

.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Narshalla said:


> I _love_ this reply!
> 
> Your post, Pumpkin, was post #133. In that post you directly said "But then again, if you think that vulgarity is an important part of your culture so be it."
> 
> ...


Uuummm - Narshalla, I think you didn't look back far enough. You forgot to mention post #112, which I believe is the very first post that mentioned anything about other people's cultures.



AngieM2 said:


> Please consider that not everyone posting on this thread, has the same cultural background and they may find one way not the way they were brought up.


Just sayin' ......... :hrm: 

I don't think it's right for anybody to bring up anyone else's culture when discussing child rearing, since child rearing really is a universal thing but one thing all of us posting here have in common is that we all share the North American western society's culture. Some people have been raised to be more polite and respectful than others, but we're still all of the same western culture.

.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

It's our job as parents to teach kids how to handle things, but to do it in a loving and POSITIVE way. For example, if your kid comes to you with a stubbed toe/splinter/boo boo/etc, instead of saying, "Get over it/Suck it up/don't be a baby/etc, how about saying, "good thing you're tough/brave/strong/etc and you can handle it!" It's really not that hard to be supportive AND encourage your kid to handle minor injuries.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

AngieM2 said:


> And PS to all the rest.... just as one American posting does not represent anyone other than themself ; does not represent the country over all; please do not let those that put us down and make insults to our way represent anyone other than themself and only themself.


For all those using this to bash me for bringing up culture - it's a fact that various areas have a different way of doing things - culture.

This was suppose to difuse and let each have their own belief in this matter, but instead it was used as a jumping off point to bash more.

Love you guys and gals....


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

naturelover said:


> Uuummm - Narshalla, I think you didn't look back far enough. You forgot to mention post #112, which I believe is the very first post that mentioned anything about other people's cultures.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Ok, we're getting into the weeds here but I gotta say this. Child rearing is very much affected by culture. Saying it's universal is like saying food is universal. Yes, we all have to eat. But the foods we eat, the way they are prepared, and the rites we perform vary a great deal from culture to culture. There is even variance between very similar cultures. There is even variance between regions of the same culture. 

So yes I agree child rearing is universal in so much as we all do it, I wholeheartedly disagree that we do so in a similar manner. Take someone from the inner city of Chicago, a guy from rural Texas, and one from Newfoundland. Tell me they're all going to raise their children the same way... 

That you would be willing to say North American Western Culture is actually disappointing to me. I would expect much more acceptance and understanding of diversity from you Nature, it's one of the reasons I've come to respect you. Using my example above you've got three very different cultures. We can look within one family and see different cultures; My Irish Catholic grandmother and I are very distinct.


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## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

I agree that culture plays a big part in how children are raised. Look at different ethnic groups even in the same city and you'll most likely find differences in their culture. Now move across the country or an ocean and see even bigger differences.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

InvalidID said:


> Ok, we're getting into the weeds here but I gotta say this. Child rearing is very much affected by culture. Saying it's universal is like saying food is universal. Yes, we all have to eat. But the foods we eat, the way they are prepared, and the rites we perform vary a great deal from culture to culture. There is even variance between very similar cultures. There is even variance between regions of the same culture.
> 
> So yes I agree child rearing is universal in so much as we all do it, I wholeheartedly disagree that we do so in a similar manner. *Take someone from the inner city of Chicago, a guy from rural Texas, and one from Newfoundland.* Tell me they're all going to raise their children the same way...
> 
> That you would be willing to say North American Western Culture is actually disappointing to me. I would expect much more acceptance and understanding of diversity from you Nature, it's one of the reasons I've come to respect you. Using my example above you've got three very different cultures. We can look within one family and see different cultures; My Irish Catholic grandmother and I are very distinct.


I know that most black people raise their children different than most white people. I also know there is a difference in the way most hispanics raise their kids compared to either black or white. So it's not just within nations, but also within races that there is a difference.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

AngieM2 said:


> Please consider that not everyone posting on this thread, has the same cultural background and they may find one way not the way they were brought up.


This is the correct first time I mentioned cultural background, sorry for getting the wrong one the first time today.

Now - how is this causing strife? To acknowledge differences? 
To try to allow for different points of view to be different and neither one RIGHT?

Again - you guys keep it interesting - love ya.


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## dancingfatcat (Jan 1, 2008)

The way I see it, it's a generational thing. When I was a kid we were allowed, expected to go outside and play, run, explore and do all the things that kids do, AND without adult supervision. We had clackers, metal wheels on our skates and skateboards, had cap guns, bb guns and swiss army knives. We went bare foot and stubbed our toes while riding bikes and got ourselves scraped up by all kinds of bushes and branches. We stepped on thorns, broken glass, tacks and nails. Cut our selves while learning to whittle or peel potatoes or a million other things. We built fires, built forts, walked hundreds, if not thousands of miles. We fell down, were pushed down, stepped on and sat on. Got scrapes and bruises and sunburns. We played street sports, made up tag games and ran ALOT! We dug holes and ditches and helped with the farm, garden and stock. We were taught to do chores, be respectful and be self reliant. To take care of one another We were to watch out and be careful and that things had consequences. We were loved and hugged, disciplined (yes, spanked) and taught self control and common sense. We were taught that we weren't the center of the universe and that the world didn't stop revolving because we were placed on it. If we got hurt we washed it off/out in the hose, stream or creek and maybe packed some mud on it to stop the bleeding till we got home. Once there we threw some macuracrome or bactin or alcohol on it, forget the bandage. If it was something bad someone would run to get a parent or adult cause in those days everyone looked out for each other.
The younger generations had too much fear placed on them, both parents and children. They weren't allowed to play on a concrete playground, pads had to be installed so no knees were scraped. Sun screen must be applied because if it isn't and a child get burned CPS will be knocking on your door. If the kids are seen outside playing "unattended" there's hell to pay because it is negligence. If your child runs into the street you can't swat their butt in fear of being turned in for abuse and showing up on youtube. And everyone is supposed to mind their own business cause it's not your kid. So is it any wonder that the parents and kids of today are softer? They don't know any different, it's such a foreign concept. And most of the younger generations ( in the past 30 years) think that the way us older folks were raised is awful and scary...........I mean, really who would let their kids go outside and not hear from them for 10 hours or so??? Um, my parents, that's who. And it was a wonderful childhood, filled with so many memories. I feel sorry for the younger kids and parents of today because they will miss out on so much and never really know how good we had it. As a side note...... I think this lack of expoiser is why we now have what is called extreme sports enthusiast. They were never allowed to have that experience. I'm all for the "here, let me look at ya, you ok? ok, go on then" and "get up, your ok" because in my experience people WILL let you know if they aren't. I do, however have a problem with letting a known broken bone go for days before it's treated. I have seen it happen, took the kid home myself and told the father, but he was to busy with work. He took him to the ER three days later......sad, but I did what I could, put a splint on it, ice and ibuprofen. Kid never complained, guess he had some balls


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## dancingfatcat (Jan 1, 2008)

I meant to add to the OP............surprised he was chopping wood, might hurt himself with the axe. Just a little tease  
All in all, I'm sure he's a fine young man. The chunk probably hit him so hard that he "thought" he was hurt worse than he was.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

Well said Dancingfatcat!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

dancingfatcat said:


> The way I see it, it's a generational thing. When I was a kid we were allowed, expected to go outside and play, run, explore and do all the things that kids do, AND without adult supervision. We had clackers, metal wheels on our skates and skateboards, had cap guns, bb guns and swiss army knives. We went bare foot and stubbed our toes while riding bikes and got ourselves scraped up by all kinds of bushes and branches. We stepped on thorns, broken glass, tacks and nails. Cut our selves while learning to whittle or peel potatoes or a million other things. We built fires, built forts, walked hundreds, if not thousands of miles. We fell down, were pushed down, stepped on and sat on. Got scrapes and bruises and sunburns. We played street sports, made up tag games and ran ALOT! We dug holes and ditches and helped with the farm, garden and stock. We were taught to do chores, be respectful and be self reliant. To take care of one another We were to watch out and be careful and that things had consequences. We were loved and hugged, disciplined (yes, spanked) and taught self control and common sense. We were taught that we weren't the center of the universe and that the world didn't stop revolving because we were placed on it. If we got hurt we washed it off/out in the hose, stream or creek and maybe packed some mud on it to stop the bleeding till we got home. Once there we threw some macuracrome or bactin or alcohol on it, forget the bandage. If it was something bad someone would run to get a parent or adult cause in those days everyone looked out for each other.
> The younger generations had too much fear placed on them, both parents and children. They weren't allowed to play on a concrete playground, pads had to be installed so no knees were scraped. Sun screen must be applied because if it isn't and a child get burned CPS will be knocking on your door. If the kids are seen outside playing "unattended" there's hell to pay because it is negligence. If your child runs into the street you can't swat their butt in fear of being turned in for abuse and showing up on youtube. And everyone is supposed to mind their own business cause it's not your kid. So is it any wonder that the parents and kids of today are softer? They don't know any different, it's such a foreign concept. And most of the younger generations ( in the past 30 years) think that the way us older folks were raised is awful and scary...........I mean, really who would let their kids go outside and not hear from them for 10 hours or so??? Um, my parents, that's who. And it was a wonderful childhood, filled with so many memories. I feel sorry for the younger kids and parents of today because they will miss out on so much and never really know how good we had it. As a side note...... I think this lack of expoiser is why we now have what is called extreme sports enthusiast. They were never allowed to have that experience. I'm all for the "here, let me look at ya, you ok? ok, go on then" and "get up, your ok" because in my experience people WILL let you know if they aren't. I do, however have a problem with letting a known broken bone go for days before it's treated. I have seen it happen, took the kid home myself and told the father, but he was to busy with work. He took him to the ER three days later......sad, but I did what I could, put a splint on it, ice and ibuprofen. Kid never complained, guess he had some balls


Of course the kid didn't complain. Obviously he knew that nobody cared if he was in pain!


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## acde (Jul 25, 2011)

Love the story. In our house we say, "Put your big girl panties on and take care of it", because my DD has had more stitches than both boys put together and never a tear.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

I think you're right Dancingfatcat. When I was about ten years old I got my first ten speed and proceeded to ride it at a high rate of speed around my neighborhood. I came around a corner and the front wheel went down in a drain grate, causing me to flip over the bike and of course damaged the bike. I picked myself up and with blood running down from my knees and arms, drug the bike and myself about a mile home. I think my Mom felt worse about the bike than me, but she did clean me up and pat me on the back. I still have a scar on my knee from that episode. 

I personally wouldn't have ever allowed one of my DD's to be a mile away from home by herself on a bike, even WITH a cell phone!


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

julieq said:


> I think you're right Dancingfatcat. When I was about ten years old I got my first ten speed and proceeded to ride it at a high rate of speed around my neighborhood. I came around a corner and the front wheel went down in a drain grate, causing me to flip over the bike and of course damaged the bike. I picked myself up and with blood running down from my knees and arms, drug the bike and myself about a mile home. I think my Mom felt worse about the bike than me, but she did clean me up and pat me on the back. I still have a scar on my knee from that episode.
> 
> I personally wouldn't have ever allowed one of my DD's to be a mile away from home by herself on a bike, even WITH a cell phone!


Me neither-not in this day and age!


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

InvalidID said:


> That you would be willing to say North American Western Culture is actually disappointing to me. I would expect much more acceptance and understanding of diversity from you .....


So are you saying you think there's no western culture, no commonalities that we all share in North America? If there's no recognized North American western culture then what are we, are we all individuals living in separate bubbles?

Don't the majority of our average, run of the mill kids share commonalities of a recognized western culture? I'm not talking about distinct cultures like the Amish, just average western culture kids. Don't they all go to schools with more or less similar curriculums from kindergarten to grade 12 everywhere and don't they all do homework? Don't they get dental check ups and physical check ups? Don't they like breakfast cereals, hotdogs, french fries, corn on the cob, pizza, ice cream, BBQ's? Don't they like to watch kids TV shows, and movies, and video games? Don't most kids share the benefits of electricity and modern western conveniences? Don't they all want their own cel phones or iPods or Wii games or computers and don't most of them appreciate music and like to dance? Don't most of them like to ride bikes or skate boards and go fishing or camping when they can? Isn't there 4H clubs all over the continent? Don't they get involved in sports like baseball, soccer, basketball, etc.? Aren't there boy scouts and girl guides and camp outs and jamborees for them everywhere, and don't girl guides everywhere sell girl guide cookies every year? Don't they all expect to get their driver's license when they come of age and yearn for that very first car of their own?

I could probably go on and on about the commonalities and experiences that people all over the continent share and accept as being part of western culture because so many of those things are what you and I grew up with and that's what our children or grandchildren are growing up with now. It's all part of common western culture and the fact that there's an invisible line called a border separating you and I, and separating one country from another, does not negate the fact that we all share the same western culture.

I find it rather offensive if somebody tries to hint around that my culture is different from your culture simply because I live in a country that has a different name from yours and there's an invisible line running between us but we still both live on the same continent and we all live in common ways and share the same kinds of common habits, common conveniences, and common pleasures and fears and dangers. There can be no segregation in western culture.

.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

naturelover said:


> So are you saying you think there's no western culture, no commonalities that we all share in North America? If there's no recognized North American western culture then what are we, are we all individuals living in separate bubbles?
> 
> Don't the majority of our average, run of the mill kids share commonalities of a recognized western culture? I'm not talking about distinct cultures like the Amish, just average western culture kids. Don't they all go to schools with more or less similar curriculums from kindergarten to grade 12 everywhere and don't they all do homework? Don't they get dental check ups and physical check ups? Don't they like breakfast cereals, hotdogs, french fries, corn on the cob, pizza, ice cream, BBQ's? Don't they like to watch kids TV shows, and movies, and video games? Don't most kids share the benefits of electricity and modern western conveniences? Don't they all want their own cel phones or iPods or Wii games or computers and don't most of them appreciate music and like to dance? Don't most of them like to ride bikes or skate boards and go fishing or camping when they can? Isn't there 4H clubs all over the continent? Don't they get involved in sports like baseball, soccer, basketball, etc.? Aren't there boy scouts and girl guides and camp outs and jamborees for them everywhere, and don't girl guides everywhere sell girl guide cookies every year? Don't they all expect to get their driver's license when they come of age and yearn for that very first car of their own?
> 
> ...



Most of what you is listed is true of lots of countries and isn't unique to North America. I'd dare say that what is acceptable language and behavior on the USA's southern border is much different than what is on our northern border. Lines on a map don't have much of an effect on "culture".


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

terri9630 said:


> Most of what you is listed is true of lots of countries and isn't unique to North America. I'd dare say that what is acceptable language and behavior on the USA's southern border is much different than what is on our northern border. Lines on a map don't have much of an effect on "culture".


That's exactly my point. Western culture includes more countries than just those in North America. Lots of commonalities of culture between North America, Great Britain, some other countries in Europe, South America, even Australia and New Zealand have become "westernized" - it's still still called western culture and a lot of it became common in North America years in advance before it did in other foreign countries since the North American culture has become a leader and trend setter for the world in so many ways.

I see no harm in being a trend setter, and I see no harm in setting a trend in civility and respectfulness either .... it's something I would like to see more of.

.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

naturelover said:


> That's exactly my point. Western culture includes more countries than just those in North America. Lots of commonalities of culture between North America, Great Britain, some other countries in Europe, South America, even Australia and New Zealand have become "westernized" - it's still still called western culture and a lot of it became common in North America years in advance before it did in other foreign countries since the North American culture has become a leader and trend setter for the world in so many ways.
> 
> I see no harm in being a trend setter, and I see no harm in setting a trend in civility and respectfulness either .... it's something I would like to see more of.
> 
> .



Sitting around eating junk food and having your kids participate in extra activities isn't what I consider culture. Culture to me is values, beliefs, attitude, skills and such. Not just living on the same continent. There are 20 some odd countries that are considered to be in N. America and I don't believe everyone has the same beliefs, knowledge, or values.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Yes there are over 20 North American countries and sovereign territories and if you go to most of them you find specific cultures along with common values, beliefs, attitudes and skills found in the US. Not ALL are the same but there is enough of a commonality to be included in Western culture. Even Cuba fits the mold. But then again Americans cannot go there to find out because of political differences.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

naturelover said:


> So are you saying you think there's no western culture, no commonalities that we all share in North America? If there's no recognized North American western culture then what are we, are we all individuals living in separate bubbles?
> 
> Don't the majority of our average, run of the mill kids share commonalities of a recognized western culture? I'm not talking about distinct cultures like the Amish, just average western culture kids. Don't they all go to schools with more or less similar curriculums from kindergarten to grade 12 everywhere and don't they all do homework? Don't they get dental check ups and physical check ups? Don't they like breakfast cereals, hotdogs, french fries, corn on the cob, pizza, ice cream, BBQ's? Don't they like to watch kids TV shows, and movies, and video games? Don't most kids share the benefits of electricity and modern western conveniences? Don't they all want their own cel phones or iPods or Wii games or computers and don't most of them appreciate music and like to dance? Don't most of them like to ride bikes or skate boards and go fishing or camping when they can? Isn't there 4H clubs all over the continent? Don't they get involved in sports like baseball, soccer, basketball, etc.? Aren't there boy scouts and girl guides and camp outs and jamborees for them everywhere, and don't girl guides everywhere sell girl guide cookies every year? Don't they all expect to get their driver's license when they come of age and yearn for that very first car of their own?


 The same could be said for kids and families in Japan, China, Russia, Brazil etc. but they aren't part of this western culture either. (PS, we don't have girl guides we have girl scouts).


naturelover said:


> I could probably go on and on about the commonalities and experiences that people all over the continent share and accept as being part of western culture because so many of those things are what you and I grew up with and that's what our children or grandchildren are growing up with now. It's all part of common western culture and the fact that there's an invisible line called a border separating you and I, and separating one country from another, does not negate the fact that we all share the same western culture.


 Indeed, but being as many places in the world share similar experiences it doesn't make us one culture either. The world isn't that homogenized just yet.


naturelover said:


> I find it rather offensive if somebody tries to hint around that my culture is different from your culture simply because I live in a country that has a different name from yours and there's an invisible line running between us but we still both live on the same continent and we all live in common ways and share the same kinds of common habits, common conveniences, and common pleasures and fears and dangers. There can be no segregation in western culture.
> 
> .


 I didn't suggest your culture is different because you're Canadian, I suggest it's different because the people around you have a different culture than the people around me. If you read what I said you'd see I also included two people from MY nation that would have pretty distinct differences in culture as well.

The people of China, India, and Russia share continent yes? Are you suggesting they are the same culture? To suggest there can be no segregation in western culture is absurd. That's what makes traveling so much fun, the segregation of cultures. New Orleans has it's own distinct cultural differences and flavors right? Boston would be a different place and it's people would have different cultural norms, even though they also share many as well. Having been to Cuba I can tell you it's different than Miami, even though Miami is full of Cubans. Puerto Rico and Mexico are very different cultures as well.

Your argument is lacking. Celebrate diversity!


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> Yes there are over 20 North American countries and sovereign territories and if you go to most of them you find specific cultures along with common values, beliefs, attitudes and skills found in the US. Not ALL are the same but there is enough of a commonality to be included in Western culture. Even Cuba fits the mold. But then again Americans cannot go there to find out because of political differences.


 Exactly. The term western culture is a catch all phrase. It's like saying Asian culture, which does not and can not accurately account for the rich diversity of an entire continent.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

InvalidID said:


> Exactly. The term western culture is a catch all phrase. It's like saying Asian culture, which does not and can not accurately account for the rich diversity of an entire continent.


But I still agree with other posters and do not count using demeaning language against children as culture or an example of a rich diversity. It is unnecessary and just crude. But if you are including this as part of your culture that is your right.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> But I still agree with other posters and do not count using demeaning language against children as culture or an example of a rich diversity. It is unnecessary and just crude. But if you are including this as part of your culture that is your right.


 Again, we agree. What you consider demeaning language and what I do are not exactly the same, because we have cultural differences. I'm claiming that in the culture I was raised telling a 14 year old kid to get off his  in the situation I recounted would not be considered offensive.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

InvalidID said:


> *Celebrate diversity!*


:bouncy: I am so very happy to see you say that. :bouncy:


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## cc (Jun 4, 2006)

These whinny kids are the same ones who can't make a decision either. I have friends who still make every decision for their grown children. Not just give them their thoughts or suggestions but actually make the decisions for them. These are adults. (well sort of adults but not really.) 
My mom was one of those "are you bleeding?" kind of moms. It took me a while to decided I had really broke my arm last week but I had got up, gone back into the house, put on an ice pack and waited before I decided to called my DD to come and get me and take me to the ER. Actually, if it hadn't been hurting so bad I would have waited until the next morning and gone to my regular doc!


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

cc said:


> These whinny kids are the same ones who can't make a decision either. I have friends who still make every decision for their grown children. Not just give them their thoughts or suggestions but actually make the decisions for them. These are adults. (well sort of adults but not really.)
> My mom was one of those "are you bleeding?" kind of moms. It took me a while to decided I had really broke my arm last week but I had got up, gone back into the house, put on an ice pack and waited before I decided to called my DD to come and get me and take me to the ER. Actually, if it hadn't been hurting so bad I would have waited until the next morning and gone to my regular doc!


No point in going to the ER. When my DD broke her wrist I took her in, paid my copay waited 5hrs only to be told "yep its broke". Call the bone Dr Monday, keep an ice pack on it and take some ibuprofen. Complete waste of time and money. I already had ice on it and had given her ibuprofen. When I busted my collarbone into 5 pieces on a Saturday I just took some ibuprofen and waited till Monday to call "our" bone Doctor.


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## Queen Bee (Apr 7, 2004)

I agree--- teach you children-- NOT just your sons, not to be babies... I hate wimpy, whiney women almost as much as I do wimpy, whiney men... Give them the confindence to take care of themselves, from an early age.. 

When our oldest dd was in college, she was dating a handsome, very intellengent young man from the north... He lived in a big city and didn't drive. She taught him to drive.. One night, they were on a double date, it was pouring rain, dd was driving..and a tire went flat... DD gets out of the car to see what''s wrong.. BOth the young men decided they needed to call a truck to fit it... MY beautiful daughter, said "I don't think so"! She changed the tire, in the pouring rain while they sat in her car!!!!! Needless to say, she was not dating him the next visit home... She threw her arms around her dad's neck and said "thank you for teaching me to do for myself"...


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

As I was out tending to my critters this AM, I thought I treat people and animals the same in many instances. I use that sixth sense and common sense to figure out if something is wrong. As pointed out, docs make mistakes, sometimes one has to go with what the gut says. Guess I can't be all wrong because the vet tells me if I call at 11:00 PM, she knows the is a problem.

My dgd KNOWS, KNOWS, KNOWS that grama loves her and yet she knows the drama doesn't cut it. It works well with others but not so much with gm. Afterall, if she has to sit and nurse a booboo, she might miss a trip to the barn! Yet, if she is truly in need of attention, she knows she will get it. Just like we care for the animals. Some of them, geriatric, need extra, every day and they get it. Just a fact of life. If it isn't bleeding, bruising or swelling, suck it up and deal with it.

That said, I have spent years working with kids. Often the kids that get the most attention are whiners. Everyone knows most whiney kids have whiney parents that complain and act like, well, bratty toddlers. The funny thing is, most of the adults don't really like the whiners. A smile and nice talk covers a lot of disdain. Now that may not be pc but it is what I have observed.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Queen Bee said:


> She threw her arms around her dad's neck and said "thank you for teaching me to do for myself"...


I've thanked my Dad many times over the years for FORCING me to learn to drive a stick shift, change the oil and plugs in my car, change a tire, do simple electrical wiring and plumbing, do simple carpentry jobs, and how to garden. At the time I wasn't always willing to learn, but his lessons have come in handy hundreds of times through the years.

Edited to add: He also taught me to balance a checkbook, and how to make a budget so I could live on what I made. Two valuable skills that a lot of young kids don't have these days.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

cc said:


> These whinny kids are the same ones who can't make a decision either. I have friends who still make every decision for their grown children. Not just give them their thoughts or suggestions but actually make the decisions for them. These are adults. (well sort of adults but not really.)
> My mom was one of those "are you bleeding?" kind of moms. It took me a while to decided I had really broke my arm last week but I had got up, gone back into the house, put on an ice pack and waited before I decided to called my DD to come and get me and take me to the ER. Actually, if it hadn't been hurting so bad I would have waited until the next morning and gone to my regular doc!


These are also the ones that can't seem to leave the nest.


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