# insulation



## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

what would be the best insulation option for a pole barn style constructed metal house?
there is bubble wrap. 
I am thinking the styrofoam type kind towards the tin. There will be a nice air gap between the foam insulation and the bubblewrap. Then put in fiberglass on the inside wall side?
Anyone see any issues with this? I think it will be costly but think we would have a highly insulated building


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## oakridgewi (Dec 12, 2006)

What kind of bubble wrap are you talkin about?

Not an expert here by any means, but I would worry about the bubble wrap becoming a vapor barrior which you do NOT want on the outside of your fiberglass. 

I like the foam out to the tin, but even foam has coused water related problems when too tight onthe cold side of the wall in some climates.

Again, no expert, thinkin out loud.

sy


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

the bubble wrap is just the little air bubble plasticy stuff. It is just under the tin and is meant to be a vapor barrier. there would be a good sized air gap between the wrap and the board insulation. then the fiberglass. i just don't know any other way to do it. We may need an air exchanger or dehumidifyer in the house. not sure.
I am needing to get started on this due to curcumstances but do not want to have to redo it from doin git wrong. thanks for your post


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

A really common insulation method for pole houses, timber frames, etc. is just thick foam insulation. Basically make a home made insulated panel type of set-up...


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

You never want fibre glass or mineral wool on the warm side of a vapor barrier. You could put the fibreglass in first and then SM foam (or not) then your vapor barrier and wall board (or whatever). Persoanlly I wouldn't bother with the bubble wrap stuff in a wall. It has uses but they're limited to odd jobs like wrapping ductwork or pipes IMO. I know people who are happy with it on garage doors so it may be fine.


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

In recent years, they've found that air infiltration (leaks) are more of an issue than insulation in many buildings. Address the air leaks first. A popular option is 'flash and batt' which is a thin layer of sprayed on foam and then fiberglass batt or cellulose. The foam seals all of the little air gaps. The foam also stops the sweating seen on the inside of metal surfaces.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Another option that isn't too expensive is blown in cellulose.


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

the bubble wrap is already there. thanks for the resposes.


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

I suggest using spray-in-place foam. These products come in 2 containers that mix at the tip of the sprayer. They are economical when compared with foam board, eliminate air leakage, can be as thick as needed, and are DIY compatible. Since it is sprayed on, you are able to put it in place without the support system required for other insulations.
Gary


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

can you put it on bubblewrap?


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

YES
The bubble wrap could be a good way to prevent the foam spray from expanding from the inside surface to the outdoor surfaces. I have not used this type of product, but it has been an interest of mine, too. 

The foam could also coat the inside structural metal with a layer of insulation.
There is a member of this group living in Maine that I recall posting about making a steel whse structure into a habitat and spraying the inside with foam. I do not exactly recall his user name. IIRC it was something like ETS??.

I will check more and reply again.
Gary


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Since the spray foam is kinda pricey, I would want good adhesion to the wall cavity, so I would pull out the bubble wrap. On the other hand if you ever want to change the tin you'll have a seperation to help with that. Pros and cons to both I guess.


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

check out tigerfoam dot com


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

The group member is ET1-SS.


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

i emailed tigerfoam. If we go with spray in it will have to stick to bubblewrap. pretty much wishing now I had saved the expense of it and not put it in. But way too late. since there is a gap or air between the bubble wrap and where the insulation will go..i know its costly but would the styrofoam stuff work? I am thinking fiberglass would be a bad move. And cellulose also could just get wet and pack down to worthless I guess as well.


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## KySam (Dec 1, 2009)

Is the building a pole barn being finished as a house? Do the outside walls have perlins running horizonal?

If I understand you right you put bubble wrap on the wall then the metal siding.
Did you run the bubble wrap vertical or horizonal on the wall?

If you ran it vertical and over lapped the wrap a couple of inches before you close the wall up buy some Tyvek tape and tape the seams so no cold air can get in the wall.

If you ran it horizonal down the wall you would have nailed it to the perlins to hold it in place. 

Tiger foam is pricey and so is the foam board. The 1 inch thick stuff is $32.00 for a 4x8 sheet. 

A friend has a pole barn and one side is in direct sunlight for at least ten hours a day in the summer time. You could stand 5 foot from the wall and feel the heat. I got some 1 inch thick blue foam baord and cut to fit between the perlins and when you laid your hand on the foam you felt very little heat. The foam was just a slight bit warm.

If you do the foam board I would cut to fit between the perlins and then caulk around the foam board to fill any small crack or just go with the spray foam and be done with it.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I know the DIY foam kits are not economical but there are types of spray foam from insulation companies that are very affordable applied for you. Here at least you'll have to price locally.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

The last time I bought blue foam board it was $10/4x8 sheet 1" (R-5).


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Ross said:


> I know the DIY foam kits are not economical but there are types of spray foam from insulation companies that are very affordable applied for you. Here at least you'll have to price locally.


I checked into Handyfoam when I did the cabin. Lowest I could get it down to was a little over a $1 a board foot. Looks like TigerFoam is about the same price. 

Going with a local installer I was able to get it done for @0.50 a board foot installed. Cheack with the insulation contractors for a bid. No point in even trying to do it yourself.

WWW


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

it is a pole barn style house. the bubblewrap lays vertical. The folks I emailed did say the foam will stick to bubblewrap. I can't imagine it doing a very good job of sticking though...
am thinking bubblewrap next to the tin, then there is an air pocket(, then put styrofoam and then put the spray foam on that? I am very worried about cost but am wanting a very insulated building.Our building is pretty large..30x64 with 10 ' sidewalls.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I wouldn't worry about ahdesion, I have no first hand with it on bubble wrap but it sure sticks to everything else! There could be an advantage to counter expansion and contraction of the steel but many steel buildings are sprayed foamed directly too.


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

we have decided on 1 1/2 to 2" of sprayed in and then if needed we will put in batts of insulation Thanks so much for your advice


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## Qhorseman (Jul 9, 2010)

I have the roll insulation between the tin and the purlins on my roof, that stuff is R15 for heat penetration from the outside in and R9 from the inside out, it sure made a huge summe time difference in my house, I have R40 in fiberglass in the attic.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Since they are there how much more for the foam to fill the void. Did you build stud walls inside the posts of the pole barn construction? Is this where you are placing the batt fiberglass? 2"x4" or 2"x6" studs? ....James


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

he should be coming out tuesday to look at the project.
we used 6x6 treated posts. We have 6 inches total to fill. It was almost 3,000 to just do 1 1/2 inches of the harder foam in just the walls. (building is 30x64 with 10' sidewalls.) I imagine it being much more. My original quote from another company was 12.000 for roof and walls 3 inches of foam. I have a small budget to get so much more done. the driveway estimate was 6-8,000. that will also be waiting
we have framed the interior walls and I think they will be about 2' on center for the batts.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Don't insulate the roof, insulate the ceiling. Are you dry walling the ceiling? Less heat transfer room to room. Use blown in, you can add more later. I was just wondering how you were doing the outside walls, studding up another wall to put in batts? If not, how will you attach wall board? ....James


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

yes my husband is insistent we only insulate the ceiling. We will have a very large vent fan in attic so that we can suck out hot air as needed.
we have framed in the walls to handle batting. The space is around 7 inches i guess. Could go 1 1/2 foam and 5 1/2 inch of the mold resistent batts. I'd rather pay mor eon insulation nnow then to have a byuilding hard to heat and cool. but 12k is wayyyy too much


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