# Please explain different types of spinning wheels



## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

OK, I have my new spinning wheel and now I'm looking at distaffs (that thread about Roc day is to blame).

Would one of you kind people on here, or several of you kind people, please explain to me (and the others that are reading) the differences in the various kinds of wheels? And what each wheel is used for? I am mostly interested in the distaff and what they are used for. It seems I can buy one as an optional piece for my Ashford Traditional wheel and I think they are kinda cool.

I am positive I've read the info about the different wheels on there before, but I don't remember ever seeing anyone talk about the distaff.

And if you use a distaff, please show pictures of it in use.

Thanks!


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

A distaff is used to hold your fibers as you spin.

There are different styles and different ways to "dress" the distaff. Heck, the colorv of ribbon used to dress a flax distaff even has different meanings! 

I mostly see distaffs being used these days by drop spinners walking around


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

I think distaffs on spinning wheels were usually used for flax, I don't know of anyone who uses one around here.


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## Wind in Her Hair (Jul 18, 2002)

when you ask about different types of spinning wheels- do mean design types or wheel specifically for different types of spinning? 

On the one hand you have:

Saxonies, Norwegians, Castle-wheels, double drive, scotch tension, double treadle, single treadle, E(lectric) spinners, Charkhas, folding/travel wheels, Swedish, Tyrolean, Baltic, wheels from New Zealand, the Shetland Isles, etc to name but a few

and on the other hand you have Indian head Spinners, Flax wheels, artyarn wheels, Canadian Production Wheels, etc


a more precise question and I will be happy to launch off into a lengthy diatribe!


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I have only spun flax when it was in a mix-silk/linen(?)/flax. From the feel of the mix, I can't imagine ever wanting to spin Flax. So no, I do not have a Distaff for any of my wheels.


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

I found this on Woolery last night when I was trying to learn about how the wheel size impacts what different wheels can do. 

http://www.woolery.com/Store/pc/Selecting-a-Wheel-c21.htm

It may or may not be of interest since you already have your wheel but I found it rather interesting. 

I found this interesting as well.
http://abbysyarns.com/2007/02/what-difference-does-drive-wheel-size-make


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

I have used a distaff to hold wool while spinning & once dressed a distaff for spinning flax in tow form. I've spun flax in roving without a distaff. 

I'm trying to imagine a flax/silk mix. What a huge difference in hand!


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Yes, it was strange, it was about 10 years ago, so I went and took a pic. I'm pretty sure there was 3 different fibers, the 3rd I can't remember but my head keeps saying Ramie, ?.


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## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

Thanks everyone.

WIHH, I am really interested in what the different wheels are used for, and why you can't use one wheel for everything by adjusting the tension or changing out the flyer and/or orfice.

I have seen pictures of people using the distaff on *what appear to be* traditional type wheels, some with flax and some with wool. Best as I can tell, the distaff serves the same purpose as the bag of roving people keep on the floor by their side. It just means you pull the fiber from the top down, instead of the floor up, and your arms might get tired .

Cyndi, the distaffs you see people using with their drop spindles, are they the long ones that look like walking sticks? And how in the world do you walk and spin from a distaff a at the same time? Are they attached to your body somehow so you aren't holding both?

7thswan, did you dampen the fibers as they were spun? I'm not sure that's a requirement for the milk-silk, but I've read it's best to keep the linen and flax (aren't they the same kinda sorta?) damp as it's being spun (and even while weaving).


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I do not remember if I dampened it, I might have just tried moistening my fingers once or twice. I have seen wheels that have a cup just for that reason. I'm real fussy with the feeling of certain things on my fingers. I do not even like silk or cotton,it feels so lifeless to me. The slipperiest stuff is more enjoyable to me, like Tensel ,Viscose ,Angora , not to mention, I knit for warmth so spinning thin-ain't happening here. 
I prefer my small Wee Peggy for spinning Angora. My 24" Reeves is by far my favorite wheel for everything. The 30" Reeves/Schant (sp), she is supposed to be for production,but mostly I use her for plying, nothing wrong really, I just fall back to the 24.


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

Some wheels are more specialized than others but most wheels have quite a bit of latitude in what they can spin. You can also get parts to modify some wheels and expand that range. As an example, there is an Ashford Traditional here. Single treadle, Scotch tension. It's a fairly basic wheel, probably the most common spinning wheel on the planet. It's been in production for decades and they are still making them. It easily goes from fingering to bulky using most wools, angora, alpaca, llama, etc. It has a "bulky" flyer (larger orifice) which lets it go up to super bulky yarn as well as ply two full bobbins together to get larger skeins. It also has a "lace" flyer that lets it spin finer yarns, although I don't use that one much at all. There is also a Woolee Winder that fits the standard flyer. It is supposed to make it easier to spin since you don't have to move the fiber onto the next hook, but it doesn't get used as much as I would have expected. I've had this wheel for years, it's my first wheel, actually. There have been several others come and go since then, but this one remains. I don't know if I'll ever outgrow this wheel, it seems to be pretty adaptable to many different fibers and spinning methods.

From old pictures, it seemed folks would sort of put the distaff under their arm while using it with a spindle.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Thank you for starting this thread! :clap::thumb:

I didn't know I could put a distaff on my Traveller or use it for my drop spindle. Or that its basically used just to hold fiber.
I think I shall me getting one shortly.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

I've seen the distaffs hooked under an arm or propped in a belt.

There are also wrist distaffs to hold roving or hold a ball of yarn when knitting/crocheting.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Here is some good info on distaffs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distaff

I have a distaff for one of my wheels but I never use it. I far prefer to keep my fibers in a basket by my side. Distaffs look cool and nice but I'm not sure they are necessary, perhaps they are handy when dealing with flax in the tow form, I've only spun it from 

Any wheel can spin anything you ask of it. Two real questions should be asked. First, is the orifice large enough to accommodate what you are wanting to spin? Second, how hard do you want to have to work? My Country Craftsman has a large drive wheel and is intended to spin fine fibers, the orifice is small so I seriously doubt I can spin anything larger than maybe a worsted weight yarn. Having said that if you have a spinning wheel with a smaller drive wheel you will be able to spin finer yarns as well as thicker yarns, however you will work your little legs hard treadling like crazy to get the twist needed to make a fine yarn. This is where the ratios come in and you can get around some of that hectic treadling by having more whorls on your flyer or bobbin or on some wheels the drive wheel itself has different whorls.

It all probably is very confusing but the best way to learn is to spin and to try and learn as you go. Granted it helps to have a basic understanding of ratios and what they mean and how they are used, such as, a higher ratio will create a finer yarn, and a lower ratio a thicker one.


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## Wind in Her Hair (Jul 18, 2002)

featherbottoms said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> WIHH, I am really interested in what the different wheels are used for, and why you can't use one wheel for everything by adjusting the tension or changing out the flyer and/or orfice.


here's the thing

you kind of can

BUT wheels have become more specialized to do "one thing" (or a few things)_ well_ and* not* everything. 

By adding different whorls, different tensioning systems, and different flyers and bobbins, you can certainly stretch your wheel and "make it" or "trick it" into doing things it wasn't necessarily designed to do. 

The main limitation seems to be orifice size -quite obviously spinning a thick artyarn single was not something that was done "a long time ago" - since orifices were teeny tiny and bobbins were small. Still, a person could ply a bunch of those skinnies into a bigger yarn but spinning an "artyarn" single the thickness of a firehose could not be accomplished with so small an orifice. 

Take up strength is also limiting when you are spinning or plying fat stuff - the take up adjustment necessary for many wheels can feel like you are treading through clay and it is BAD and HARD on the wheel - breaks drive bands under the stress, leathers are stressed and you can even crack a treadle. 

Some wheels were designed to spin fine - thats where they live - like CPWs. Fast and fine - I mean REALLY fast. After all, they were a tool for a person's profession - their livelihood - not recreational relaxing spinning or for creative expression. 

Just as a dogsled will get you from point A to point B, so will a Lambourghini - thats the kind of differences there are between wheels(and spindles for that matter). 

That dogsled may not work so well on the Interstate in Southern California - and that luxurious sport's car will not do so well in the Arctic. :shrug:


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

This is a helpful thread. 

WIHH, what are CPW's? 

I am torn between the Traditional and the Traveller. For those of you who have worked with both, what do you see as the main difference between them? The Ashford site says that all of the accessories for the Traditional are available on the Traveller. I see the Traveller has a smaller wheel and is more compact. How does that impact what you create? If one were spinning for a long time is one or the other less tiresome? Would your body position be different?


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## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

Kasota, those are good questions to ask about the two different Ashford wheels.

I know CPW stands for Canadian Production Wheel but I have no idea what it really means. I hope WIHH gets back here soon with an answer.

I am watching an antique Castle Flax wheel on eBay that ends in less than an hour. I am not sure why I am watching this wheel except I like the way it looks and would like to have it here with me to play with. Not that I've even touched the Ashford since I brought it home.

As for what I want to spin - I don't really know what I like to weave so I have to wait and see on that before I know what I want to spin. However, I don't really like bulky and don't lke art yarns. I seem to lean towards thinner yarns in a plain weave and I have a lot of linen and silk here to play with as soon as we get settled in the new place and I get brave enough to try threading something that's over 24 epi. So I *think* I may want a wheel that I can spin silk and linen (flax) and thinner yarns. I am pretty sure this Traditional will work for everything but darn, that Castle flax wheel sure is pretty.

And I bought the books The Ashford Book of Spinning and The Whole Craft of Spinning from the Raw Material to the Finished Yarn by Carol Kroll so they should be here soon. The spinning group meets the last Friday of this month and I may not do anything with the wheel until then. Some of the roving I've ordered should be here by then, too, so I'll have something of my own to take for practice.


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

Featherbottoms, let me know how you like the book! 

I'll bet you are anxious to get to the spinner's group!


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

I taught myself how to spin using Carol Kroll's book.

My first wheel was the Traveler. It served me well. I did get a jumbo bobbin assembly. When I started travelling for work, I could only take a spindle. I needed a travel wheel.

With a surprise bonus check, I got the Kromski Sonata with a WooLee Winder. The Sonata is now my main wheel & the Traveler is my plying wheel.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

My Majacraft Saxonie, is double treadle, I have a fine degree of control, is uber smooth running and I can spin anything from lace weight yarn to super bulky with it.


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## Wind in Her Hair (Jul 18, 2002)

CPWs (Canadian Production Wheels) are just what the name says - but Production wheels were not limited to the Canadians - Gone-a-milkin' has a Finnish-made production wheel as well. 

These were Made in Canada (Quebec) between 1820?-1950s _by the thousands_ for factory/institutional and home production spinning. They were used in Convents and Insane Asylums :teehee: and sold through a catalog store - the Canadian equivalent to our Sears and Roebuck Catalog. 

The wheels sold for $5- $15 and were made "on the cheap" using the cheapest wood available but still maintaining a modicum of aesthetic appeal with surprisingly delicate turnings for the home spinning market. The woods often did not match and so it is not uncommon for some of the wheels to be painted pumpkin orange or yellow  and oftentimes there was actually bark left on the wood in places. There were lots of shortcuts taken to keep the price of these wheels down to afforable for the failing Quebec economy but amazingly, these wheels withstood the test of time and are as solid as a rock. I was lucky to have one drop into my lap that was shipshape and in perfect condition- ready to spin.

While many drive wheels today are 19" in size -these bad boys are a commanding and no-nonsense 30"  and many (but not all) have cast iron parts for durability, weight/momentum, and they all have "tilt tensioning" systems that make adjusting tension as you spin a BREEZE - just by tapping them. Genius. 

These wheels were made to spin POUNDS of fine yarn a day - not ounces. These wheels are speed demons and keeping up with them takes a bit of doing. 

I have to say, I have fallen head over heals in &#9829; with my big guy. Frazzlehead has a near twin - these are Frederic Bordua "tuplets" (did I get that right, Frazzlehead?) 

(notice the cast iron Fleur de Lis treadle and the cast iron saddle clamp tensioning devise this apparatus replaces the screw tension as seen on Norwegian wheels) The tilt tension replaces the screw type twensionthat brings the Mother of All forward and back and just tilts' either closer to or further away form the drive wheel. 


http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/country-homemaking/fiber-arts/499703-look-whats-coming-live-me.html


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

WOW, WIHH, thats some really groovy information !! I'll have to keep an eye out for thoes !! 

Are they heavy , with the cast iron on them ???


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## Wind in Her Hair (Jul 18, 2002)

I would like to add that the Ashford Traveller is a little more compact and easier to travel with - which may not sound important now - but once you get to going -you may find yourself going with your wheel a lot! 

I have friends with them and they are lovely easy-to-learn on wheels.


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## Wind in Her Hair (Jul 18, 2002)

Miz Mary - they are hefty - so stable - they aren't going anywhere.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

WIHH,

Great post, Thanks!
So the bigger the wheel the faster it goes? I guess that makes sense as the bigger wheel would have more momentum once it gets going.
I have a little Kromski Prelude. Its sorta shaped like a CPW. It is a little speed demon. I sometimes like just the single treadle too.
It leaves my Traveller in the dust in terms of speed. I like my Traveller cause it spins a medium weight easily. The Prelude like to spin thin.

Eta, the downside to the Kromski is the leather flyer holders on the uprights.
Till they get broken in from many many applications of oil, they can be literally & figuratively a real drag.


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

Lovely wheel, WIHH! Still, it's difficult enough to spin the Ashford Traddie here slow enough, a wheel like you have would eat me alive. But it would be lovely to have one anyway. I suppose, with a wheel like that, I'd have to switch over to actually doing real fiber prep instead of just taking it off the bunny and spinning.

The Traditional here goes off with me to different places. A friend with a Traveler brings his frequently. His Traveler is actually heavier than my Traditional, although it is more compact.

I suppose I really don't need another spinning wheel. But that one you have is really lovely!


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

As far as portability goes I also have a Sonata, it's great for travel, compact, carry bag. Sadly I'm sorry, but I cannot say that I'm in love with this wheel, I'm just not. I'm actually thinking of maybe selling it. But anyway, I'm love my Traddy and even though it is not really portable, it is. I take her everywhere and yea! she is a bit awkward but it's worth it to have her with me? I sometimes even travel with a chair I like to spin in


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

Wow! Great information! I love hearing about other people's wheels and what they like and don't like, what they use them for. Thank you all for sharing insights and experiences! 

WIHH, what a beautiful wheel! I looked at your thread on this wheel and was so tickled when you said your wheel has a voice. Do all wheels have a voice? Oh, if that wheel could tell stories....just imagine all the yarn that has been spun...the places it may have been, the families it got to know. 

I have been having dreams about spinning wheels. The other night I dreamed I was sitting on one spinning wheel after another, just like they were chairs. One after another broke into pieces. Before long I was in a room filled with broken spinning wheel pieces and parts. Oh, egads! I am sure these strange dreams will stop once I find a wheel of my own. 

This whole ebay purchase of mine has turned into a nightmare. The seller has sent me nasty-grams telling me what a horrible person I am, saying she believes in Karma and that I am going to get it. She left "positive" feedback about me but when you open it up she is warning people not to sell anything to me and she accused me of being a scammer. Sigh. I called Ebay and they took the negative comments down and said that it is against their rules to leave false positive feedback on others. 

I will be glad when PayPal finally tells me I can send it back. I am almost scared to ship it and have thought I might even just pay a service to pack it as well as ship it, just so that I have that for "evidence" if I need it for some reason. What a mess. It makes me scared to buy a wheel unless I can go pick it up or else buy a new one from a dealer. There is a person who is on Ravelry who is an Ashford dealer and I might end up going that route just because. Ugh.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Kasota, 

That's a real bummer about the wheel & the seller. Its fear of things like that, that I don't buy much from ebay. I haven't ever purchased from Ravelry, so I cant say one way or the other what that's like.

Ive gotten all my wheels from the Woolery with no problems. I just figure for the amount of money involved, I want a good reputable company behind it. That's just me.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

I've gotten a lot of large ticket items from Susan of susansfibershop.com

This time of year she is usually willing to dicker on the price of wheels.

Paul bought my Traveler from her & Susan let him make payments.


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

PearlB, there's certainly logic in that!

I did hear back from PayPal and they granted my claim and will give me my money back as soon as I ship off the wheel and provide them with tracking numbers. I have 10 days to ship it. I think I am on the hook for the return shipping. Paypal says they cannot force her to pay for it. 

Right now I am just so blue about all of this that it has taken the wind right out of my sails. Maybe I will just put it all on the back burner for a bit until my spirits improve. 

Tomorrow is a new day.


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks, Cyndi, for the recommendation. I will stash it for later.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

I don't blame you for feeling blue about this. But she is one nasty person in the world of fiber people and there are a zillion others that more than make up for her. Another place I really like to buy things from, Paradise Fibers and also Woodland Wool Works if you check a round with the various stores they each offer some sort of deal if you are purchasing a wheel. Some offer fiber, like a pounds of something, or a percentage off, or some little dodad. Check around and see who offers the best deals. There are lots of good reputable people out there. You could even look locally! MN has many good stores where you can actually go and try wheels, and take one home with you.


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## Wind in Her Hair (Jul 18, 2002)

Kasota, I would recommend going down to Detta's Spindle

http://www.dettasspindle.net/

she normally has a dozen or more wheels to test drive and to sell (many are on consignment) 

let me know if you decide to make the trip - I may just have to join you down there!


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## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

Kasota, have you thought to check a weaving, spinning or fiber guild in your area, or within driving distance? Many fiber guilds have an online classified section, or something in their newsletter, but you can also email and ask if someone has what you are looking for. My weaving instructor just sold a loom she had listed in our guild newsletter. Had I not bought the Ashford last week it would have been listed next month in the newsletter. 

When I was looking for my first loom I checked online at fiber guilds from NM to the East coast because I knew I would be making a trip back East. I actually ended up buying both in the same trip and I found one loom on CL in Brunswick, Ga and the other through the Gainesville Handweavers guild in Fla. The GA loom was originally owned by a woman from Colorado who sold it to the lady in GA who decided she wanted a bigger loom and I just got lucky and she was able to hold it for me for two months until I left on my trip. The loom at the guild in Gainesville had been used up until the time I brought it home. I felt good about both purchases and they have been good choices for me.


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks, everyone! I will for sure check out the links and various places. I'm not worried about fiber peeps. This seller wasn't a fiber peep at all. She bought the wheel for decoration and then decided to go with a different decor. That explains the lack of respect for the wheel. 

I confess to having peeked at Ebay again. Not thinking of going that route again but there are lots of pictures and I saw a CPW there. Now I have no room for it of course not to mention it would be way too much wheel for me...but it was amazing to see anyway. I don't think the person knew what it was. I only recognized it because of the detailed pictures on the other thread. Had the same cast iron treadle.


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## Wind in Her Hair (Jul 18, 2002)

Kasota - call Marianne! 

She has three wheels - an Earl Oman Norwegian like mine (but in walnut instead of birch and oak) and she has a Canadian Lendrum and a Schacht Matchless. She would love to get you "hooked up'.


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## SvenskaFlicka (Nov 2, 2011)

Hey Kasota, if you find a wheel you really like in the Twin Cities, I could certainly go scope it out and pick it up for you. And if you don't mind waiting, I'm driving to Duluth in mid-February. 

Just an option.


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

You guys are just the best! 

Svenska, I did not know you were in the Twin Cities! We are almost neighbors! I used to live there for many years and my son still does, so I get down that way from time to time. 

I will surely call Marianne tomorrow! I have the day off of work.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

The Matchless lives up to its name. The versatility of that wheel can't be matched.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

I would like to add a Matchless to my collection. Maybe someday.


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

I did put in a call yesterday to Marianne. Have not heard back from her yet, but I am sure she will get around to it. 

I think I should crochet myself a spinning wheel. If I sold enough scarves I could add to my 300.00. LOL! 

Everyone sure seems to think highly of the Matchless. I have been googling what people think of them and it sure seems they are versatile! They don't look as traditional but I could get over that real quick. It seems compact, too, which would be a bonus, but I'm willing to re-arrange my craft room to make room for something larger if I really like it. 

There are a couple other wheels over at Ravelry that look so beautiful. A bit out of my budget but I can dream. 

What do you all think of Kromski's? 
http://www.ravelry.com/discuss/spinners-marketplace/2737609/1-25

And I think this is so pretty. 
http://www.ravelry.com/discuss/spinners-marketplace/2730548/1-25
I would have to sell something to buy it but I have an offer on a "toy" that have for 600.00 and I could scrape up the difference if they would ship. 

And there is this one.
http://www.ravelry.com/discuss/reeves-rock/2778033/1-25

http://www.ravelry.com/discuss/spinners-marketplace/2760487/1-25

And there is this Traveller. 
http://www.ravelry.com/discuss/spinners-marketplace/2812609/1-25

The search goes on....


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

sorry for the double post


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

That's a good deal on the Traveller with all the extras. She doesn't say if its a single or double drive. I like both though. 

I think Kromskis are good wheels. I would be really tempted to get the one in the link.
I think my next wheel is going to be a Kromski Minstrel.

Rick Reeves just doesn't do anything for me, that's just me.

One of these days Im going to get a wheel on Ravelry, I just know it.

Good Luck!


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## Wind in Her Hair (Jul 18, 2002)

personally, for a new spinner, I would be reluctant to advise you to buy a saxony style/****** or Norwegian style wheel as your first wheel (even though thats what I did!) They are heavy, unwieldy, and they rarely travel well- unless you have a big van to haul them upright in. 

Something that travels well is likely to be necessary in order for you to take it to spinning classes, clinics, and to fiber groups. That Traveler is a real deal. Lots of extras!

I love traditional looking wheels and that is why I bought my Norwegian wheel.

I hauled her everywhere and she took a lickin'- after about a year, I bought a folding Bluebonnet Thimble to be my "travel wheel" and that allows my Norwegian wheel to remain safely at home were she belongs. 

Rick Reeves wheels are craftsman made and lovely spinning wheels. Kromskis are nice wheels albeit a little "rickety" and "wobbly" for my taste. 

Another wheel to consider is the MajaCraft Rose- it has traditional styling and amazing spinnability.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

I agree with WIHH on her assment of the saxony style wheels. They can be finicky and fussy especially for a beginner spinner. Ask WIHH, as beautiful as her wheel is it took her some time to find that a sweet spot. If you are a new spinner and you are learning everything, finding a sweet spot can be extremely frustrating. Now I do have to take a bit of an issue when she talks about a traditional style wheel. From what I understand a castle wheel is a traditional style wheel. I suppose "traditional" when NOT talking about the Ashford wheel can mean different things to different people :teehee:


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## Wind in Her Hair (Jul 18, 2002)

to be clear- :grin: when I speak of "traditional" spinning wheels, I am thinking of WOODEN wheels with "turned legs" and a central drive wheel like a ship's wheel. A saxony, a ******, a Norwegian, a Great Wheel, a CPW, and certainly - a castle wheel, etc.

THAT'S truly what I mean when I say "traditional" - just *NOT *something in a traditional "footprint" but made of PVC, or a plywood circle, or in a box like a charkha (although a charkha certainly IS a traditional wheel - in India!) Those wheels, to me, ARE spinning wheels- just not "traditional"-styled. :shrug:

An example: The MajaCraft Rose is a wooden wheel with a traditional castle wheel footprint and turned wooden spokes. As is my Haldane Shetland Wheel. As is your Kromski.


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

> I would be reluctant to advise you to buy a saxony style/****** or Norwegian style wheel as your first wheel (even though thats what I did!)


WIHH, you sure made me smile. I could tear that page out of my life's book just about any day of the week. I used to assess horses for people. Time and again I would tell brand new horse owners to NOT buy that 2 year old untrained Arab. Even though that is exactly what I did for my first horse. LOL! Hopefully I am getting a bit wiser as I age. I've mostly learned to listen. Mostly. 

So thank you all for the advice about the saxony and Norgegian style wheels for beginners. I continue to sleuth. I am for sure tempted by the Traveller and all those extras even though it is single drive and I was hoping for double.


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

I have a Double Drive Kromski Minstrel , and she is a workhorse ! &#9829; her !


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## Wind in Her Hair (Jul 18, 2002)

okay- wait! what?

are you SURE you have that whole single drive/double drive vs single TREADLE/double TREADLE thing down?

When I was first shopping for wheels I had no idea what kind on TENSION system I'd need/prefer. :shocked: But I thought I wanted a single TREADLE because that "seemed" traditional (and is).

here is a brief explanation of the difference in tensioning systems and treadles from a discussion on Knitting Help.com





> Single and double drive wheels should not be confused with single or double treadle wheels, they're two different things. A single drive wheel can have two treadles and a double drive wheel can have one treadle. A single treadle wheel has one foot pedal (treadle) while a double treadle has two.
> 
> A double drive however is where the drive band is looped in two and goes over both the flyer and bobbin whorl turning them both at the same time. The flyer whorl however is smaller than the bobbin whorl so it turns a little faster than the bobbin, winding on.
> 
> ...


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

Ok, maybe I am confused. 

I am not set on either single or double treadle. I think I could work with either. 

My understanding is that double drives can be set up to work as single but that when set up as double drive will give a more even yarn. However, if a single drive is more adjustable then that would probably be better. If I bought a double drive wheel that was designed to run either way...wouldn't I have both options? Or is it that it really never "likes" the single drive option? 

So much to learn. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate everyone's help!!!


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

In the add she just said it was a single treadle. She doesn't state if its a single or double drive. I would ask her.

My Traveller is a double drive/double treadle. I mostly use it in single drive though.
I finally got it all apart & am going to be lightly sanding it down & putting a finish on it.

I think single treadles over all are faster too.

Shes got over $200 in extras on that wheel.

Eta: If you really like spinning you likely will wind up with a couple of wheels. That Traveller with the extras, is a good setup for a beginning spinner. I don't think you will likely find a better deal for that price.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Miz Mary said:


> I have a Double Drive Kromski Minstrel , and she is a workhorse ! &#9829; her !


 That is going to be my next wheel!!


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

The lady with the Traveller has another thread where she shows some close up pictures and when I compare the bobbins to ones listed on Ebay they look like single drive to me rather than double drive. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I did send her a PM to see if she still has it and asked a few more questions but have not heard back from her yet. 

PearlB, here is a question for you. If you had your choice between a Minstral and a Traveller - which would you choose? If you have a Traveller and are looking to get a Minstral - what would the Minstral do that the Traveller you have won't do? 

I am so sorry for being a pest. I don't mean to be annoying. I'm on the verge of ordering something from a dealer on Ravelry or from The Woolery or from one of the other dealers suggested to me if the woman with the used Traveller doesn't have it or won't ship it. I agree - with all the extras, it's a good beginner wheel. 

I think the words of wisdom about getting something more portable so I can get to spinning lessons, etc is a very good idea. So I have rather narrowed things down to a Traveller, a Mistral or a Matchless. 

I have heard nothing but good things about a Matchless but they are expensive. I have found a couple used ones for around 800 or 900 but I'm leary of that expensive of a private sale where they have to ship it. I could buy one new (ack) if I sold one of my hunting items that I no longer use. My brother just took it to a federally licensed individual and had it all checked out as it has been sitting a while and he made an offer on it. Between the hunting item sale and the money I'm getting back from the seller of the the wheel I shipped back - and maybe a weee bit more I could swing a Matchless. 

Between a Traveller or a Minstral the decision needs to be single treadle or double treadle, single drive or double. Both of them seem to be easy enough to get parts for and extra do-dads.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Kasota,

Your not being a pest at all. I don't have access to a place where I can test wheels out. I just have to buy one & see if I like it.

The reason for the Minstrel? I like my Prelude enough Im betting that the Minstrel will be a good wheel too. Theres a few things Im not so fond of on the Traveller. The bobbin set-up. I think its a pain to change. I stopped, I just wind off on a Kniddy Knoddy.
Theres a thing they have that goes with the jumbo kit. Its supposed to be so you don't have to change everything to use the regular flyer, cept it doesn't work with the double drive. I haven't really bought many extras for it yet. Its slow too, compared to the Prelude.

I get em unfinished, saves a lot. I want to see what the Minstrels like. Then sell whichever one I don't like so much.

I like the way both the Traveller & Minstrel look. To me, they look like spinning wheels.

Im still newish & undecided. I have certain likes at this point. Im looking for a good all around wheel, & a good single drive/single treadle wheel. The Prelude is small & has limitations.

Good Luck in your search! I do like having the option of a double drive on at least one of my wheels.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

To my knowledge a double drive wheel does not spin any smoother than a single drive. I wonder if you got that from us talking about the CPW? Either way the Traveller can be either single or double drive, I think you can switch it at will. Single or double treadle with Ashfords, if you have a single treadle you can buy a double treadle kit to convert it over.


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## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

Kasota, I know you are kinda soured on eBay but this pretty wheel showed up (I looked over the seller's feedback before I decided to post this here, but I'm not you). It's in New Zealand.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEAUTIFUL-N...538?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d0c51ca2



Also, even though I said I didn't think I was the spindle type, I broke down and ordered a Kundert spindle from the link that you had posted. I got the walnut and bird's eye maple. It is so pretty - and light - and I have no idea how to use it . I'm taking both the spindle and the wheel and some of the beautiful roving I have now to the spinning group the end of the month. I hear there's one other newbie spinner that may be there.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

At least for some of the Traveller models, the double drive can be used with either a Scotch (flyer led) or Irish tension (bobbin led). Not all can though. It depends if the drive band is on the back of the bobbin (can be used as single drive) or in the front of the bobbin (DD only).

The DD can make more minute changes in the take up than a SD can. 

When I started spinning with my Traveller, the DD was much easier for me. With the Sonata, I have no problems with the Scotch tension.


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

Thank you all (again!) for the help and encouragement. I know my wheel is out there somewhere. 

I didn't get the idea that DD would spin more evenly from the CPW conversations here. I got it from talking to someone on Ravelry who is an Ashford dealer. I was told it is a little more forgiving than SD. 

I am just one of those people who likes to have options. So when I think of DD or SD - if I get one that can be set up either way to me that would seem to be a good thing, but I could be wrong. Kind of like one of my old horses - he looked as nice under English saddle as he did chasing cows. People would see me riding him down the road and ask where I got the little dressage pony. (he was all of 14.3 hands) and then they might see me team penning and be stunned when they realized it was the same horse.  Multipurpose is good. Things that can be expanded upon - like the Matchless or Ashford or Kromski over a very vintage I-can't-get-parts wheel would be a better choice for me. I don't know enough to buy something I can't get pieces parts for. 

Featherbottoms, ty for the link. Looks like a very pretty wheel but you are right, I am a little leery of large ticket items on Ebay just now. I could go broke paying shipping to send it back if it turned into the nightmare that the last one was. LOL! 

The Traveller on Ravelry is pending sold. Seller told me she would email me if it falls through. 

I just need to get off my duffer and make something happen. But my duffer has been dragging. ha! It will happen when it is meant to happen.  

Thanks again, everyone!!!


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Your questions really got me to thinking too!

Im leaning towards an Ashford Elizabeth 2 now. I know what you mean about options.
Personally I would rather have a wheel with DD. That way you can use it as either SD or DD. Ashfords do have a quality to them. 

I got my Prelude all tightened up & running better than ever, still, it is a little on the wobbly side. I cant say all Kromskis are like that. Mine is. Its their cheapest one though.

The Elizabeth 2 is the style that I like the most. I like the single treadle & 24" wheel


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

I don't find the Kromski Sonata wobbly at all. It has a very solid base.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

I have spun on (actually I own both) SD and DD (all my wheels at ST, as my body mechanics don't like double treadle).

The difference between wheels is much greater than the difference between tension types, to me. I have heard people say you need a certain kind to do certain things, but this is not my experience at all. The tool matters... But the spinner makes more difference to the yarn than the tool does.

Get the wheel that sings to you. The one you think is lovely, and in your budget. Preferably not a finicky antique but a flexible modern wheel... Portable if you will travel much...but keep in mind that some of the bigger wheels (like the Elizabeth) will fit in your back seat if your car has lots of leg room, not everyone needs a folding wheel, it kinda depends how often you travel and how big your car is.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Ditto what Frazzle just said


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

> Get the wheel that sings to you. The one you think is lovely, and in your budget.


I am just smiling. That's good advice for a lot of things in life.


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