# Iron Shots for Piglets, let's talk about it



## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I know I have read many post here debating iron shots for piglets or not. I know there are those who probably always give them and those that seldom if ever do. I had considered giving them, but I was not home when my gilts farrowed and figured I would not ask my wife and daughters to see about doing it, as they already are doing alot. I had intended to ask the vet we use when I was there a month or so ago and somehow just did not get around to it. 

Today my daughter sent me an email here at work and said one of the piglets was weak and they had been giving it goat milk, but it did not seem much better (9 days old, 5 lbs.) They took it to the vet and he said "iron deficiency" and gave it a iron shot and some liquid vitamins. Recommended a iron shot for the whole litter and another in 10 days. They are giving shots today. 

Now a little info. The gilts have been running on about 3 or 4 acres for months, with free access to 2 ponds. We live in Stone county, yes lots of rocks, so a person would assume minerals?? I have been feeding about 5 lbs. of feed each to the gilts every day and also adding a bagged mineral supplement every day top dressed on the feed. 

I have 2 litters that are penned outside and this particular litter happens to be penned in one of our horse stalls, which has a gravel floor with sawdust and dirt mixed. The vet was not worried about the litters outside, but suggested this entire litter be given iron shots. He did recommend we start giving iron shots at 2 to 4 days from here out. 

What does this mean? Well for me it means I will be giving iron shots from here out, just in case. maybe needed, maybe not? How many piglets do you lose before it covers the cost of the iron shots? I suspect not many. I also have to wonder how much of the mineral mix I am feeding to the sows is actually being absorbed, as I really thought I would be covered as far as minerals, since I was feeding a separate mineral mix.

I would be interested in your opinions on this or the program you use. I will be making a few changes to my program I know and taking a better look at just how much iron is in the mineral mix I have been using, or if I can provide it a different way, which may be more readily usable to them.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Iron shots are cheap. I rarely give them.

In the warm months when our pigs are on dirt we don't do iron shots.

In the winter when I can get dirt to them by digging up a scoop from under a hay bale I'm grabbing to feed pigs then I don't do iron shots.

In the dead of winter if the land has frozen and I can't get dirt then I may do iron shots. 

I like dirt better for them. They never need iron shots in the warm months and do just fine. Winter is a lot harder in a lot of ways.

In winter I'll also feed kelp sometimes, especially if I can't get dirt.

Note that we have good dirt. It is complete. It has all the minerals in it they need. Everyone should get their soil tested so they know if they're missing iron, selenium, etc. Some lands are mineral poor so this becomes a problem.

Cheers,

-Walter

See: http://SugarMtnFarm.com/2012/03/24/mineral-deficiencies/


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

If your pigs are on dirt then iron shots aren't usually needed, but if they are on milk replacer or concrete then an iron shot won't hurt.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Walter, lazy,
I understand and that is exactly what I thought. I guess the fine line is what constitutes DIRT ??? Like I said mine were in horse stalls (actually mule stalls) which have been used for years. The base layer is unwashed creek gravel with sawdust on top. But as everyone knows through the years with manure and hay and feed and normal use it is not really just gravel and sawdust anymore? But undoubtedly not enough DIRT either for pigs anyway. The outside pens is about 1 foot of sawdust on top of the ground, but undoubtedly it has enough DIRT, as there were no problems with those litters. So I guess the lesson here is just because it looks like DIRT does not mean it is DIRTY enough, and when in doubt, give them iron shots. At least that is what I am taking away from all of this.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Compost may well have plenty of minerals in it as it is breaking down other matter so what is in the horse stalls may be becoming good. I would still tend to want to add some dirt from my fields just because I know from soil tests and years of raising that the dirt out there is complete.

An idea would be to get a soil test on the stall floor materials, another on the creek wash, another on your field soil, another on the sawdust. Might find out interesting things. Just costs money. 

Iron shots are cheap if you aren't sure.

Another thing I do is toss chunks of iron into our waterers and whey tanks. The metal breaks down. A stick of rebar has a lot of iron in it... This is an old trick.

"Let them eat dirt" is proven to work here on our farm with 11 years, hundreds of sows and thousands of piglets on pasture. If you raise them on concrete or wood floors your results will be different. If your soils are deficient then obviously that's an issue. Note that most formulated bagged feeds have the minerals in them so if you're buying pig chow you should be fine too.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Often times real situations have a bigger impact on people than just hearing about it. I think the need for iron shots just hit you on the head. Now you know and you can feel better about ignoring any nonsense to the contrary. 
What is the accepted standardized mineral content in dirt? You believed the myth that if they have access to dirt they are getting minerls. Now you know better. Might be interesting to see if there is iron in your "dirt" and it just isn't absorbable to the pigs digestive system. I don't know.
Sort of like when someone says not to over feed calves. You might be tempted once, but after you lose a calf to scours, you know better.
Take a look at the list and balanced amounts of minerals in a bag of minerals. Do you really believe the soil at your house matches that or even anything close? Sure, some stranger on the internet can tell you all sorts of stuff. Sometimes it is hard to winnow out the truth. 
I've seen mineral deficiency kill pigs, large and small. You have experienced it up close and personal. Perhaps you too will now feel the urge to caution against advice that you know to be dangerous.
There are those that will spread false information because they don't know. I've had to do my own research to dispel several myths. Tobacco or cinnamon isn't a substitute for real wormer. Lots of people ready to share information out there, just not all of it is truth.
Raise sale barn calves, have scours pills ready.
Raise cattle, never trust a friendly bull.
Raise colts, give the mare a shot of selenium.
Raise pigs, give them their iron shots.

IMHO, I don't care if you are raising pigs in an iron mine, a 2 day old pig isn't going to eat enough ore to supply his needs.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I appreciate everyone's opinions on this subject. For me, in my situation, I will be giving iron shots from now on, simply because they are cheap insurance to guard against a possible iron deficiency. I will also be looking into the mineral supplement I have been feeding, and the feed I have been feeding, as well as looking into soil tests. I will not discount anyone's own personal experience, as their situation may very well be different that mine. There are no doubt pigs living in the wild who live without an iron shot, so it is possible. How many more would have lived with one? IKN, maybe a lot, maybe none, all situations are probably different in that respect. Here is what I can say, if anyone cares to listen. If you are new to breeding and raising, as I was with this first litter, you may not have the long track record some of the members here have, which either shows they Do need to give iron shots or DO NOT need to give iron shots. You will all have to read through the vast amount of information on the subject and decide for yourself if this is a risk you would like to take, or one you would not. My unique situation or someone else s may or may not be similar to yours.


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## Pig in a poke (Mar 27, 2013)

We gave our newborn piglets the oral iron booster (from a pump bottle). Like Muleman's litter, they are currently housed on a dirt stall floor. I will probably do a follow up with the oral booster. They are getting more feisty and playful, but I plan on keeping my eye on their level of activity and watch for any decline in robust-ness. 

I've read that the reason for a preference of shots over oral iron is to ensure the dose. But it's not hard getting the right oral dose in them. Is that really the main reason shots are preferred?


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## 3acres (Feb 6, 2013)

As for me, as of now...irons shots for sure for my piglets....even though they will always be on dirt.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Just speculation, but Wild hogs eat a lot more blood and guts than most home raised pigs do. (at least I hope so). Perhaps their slower growth and their source of iron from animals lowers their need for an iron boost.


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## garzafarm (Aug 7, 2014)

With all my litters I clip teeth give iron shots notch ears within the first twenty four hours. Iron is cheap enough that I would rather error on the side of cation. All of my pigs are on dirt. If you give them iron and they don't need it they will just expel any extra while they urinate. 


Chris Garza
Calhan Co
Hog farming is our main income. 

Sent from my iPhone using Homesteading Today


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## danniulrich05 (Mar 24, 2014)

Is is better to do shots and ear notching on day one? I'd read day two-four.


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## garzafarm (Aug 7, 2014)

For me I like to do them all at the same time. Just easier because I can be doing upwards of 30 or 40 piglets a day during farrowing. All twenty of my sows farrow within the same month of each other. So in one month I can have 250 to 300 piglets. Lots of work. 


Chris Garza
Calhan Co
Hog farming is our main income. 

Sent from my iPhone using Homesteading Today


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## ErikaMay (Feb 28, 2013)

DIRT is complicated. Its not just brown stuff. Its a complex ecosystem full of microbes (good and bad), single cell "animals" (good and bad), minerals, water and ...stuff? I would be highly suprised if your horse stall dirt was a complete mineral balance.

My soil is VERY high in iron. In fact, my pigs white hairs are all dyed red from the iron in their wallow. I don't bother with iron shots since they start rooting and eating dirt immediately. I've seen this over and over. Iron is not shared through pigs milk, so a sow eating carrion and ingesting their iron wouldn't give it to the piglets anyway. How do wild pigs survive? Free ranging many soil types (I've got many different soil pockets and one area ALL pigs, even visiting pigs, till up and eat) available. Wild hogs may farrow near rich soils to get their piglets iron. I don't know, but thats what I would guess if we are in the speculating game.

I've had my soil tested and what i lack is selenium (and according to my tomatoes calcium). Thus, they do get commercial feed to fill in the gaps. Not a problem for piglets.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2014)

Could red cell given orally work in place of an iron injectable? If so, how much and often?

edited to add: What are the signs of iron deficiency in piglets?


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Light gums, light inside of eyelid, short of breath, poor thrift...

-Walter


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2014)

Davstep said:


> Could red cell given orally work in place of an iron injectable? If so, how much and often?
> 
> edited to add: What are the signs of iron deficiency in piglets?


 Red Cell seems to have worked for my piglet. They are all up and running now.


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## njenner (Jul 15, 2013)

I talked to my 30+ year experienced vet yesterday and he concurred that when they are out on pasture/dirt and not on concrete, they do not need iron shots (and he grew up on a pig farm before becoming a vet). Our "dirt" is an excellent loam with lots of minerals in it. I suspect the gravel/stall base may have lacked minerals.


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## Pig in a poke (Mar 27, 2013)

Davstep, how much red cell did you give and what does your piglet weigh?


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## docholiday (Jul 31, 2014)

For what it is worth, the pig farm I work at does not do Iron Shots. The pigs are free range with feed supplement, but the piglets are born in the barn and are not on dirt until older, and in that time period they are give fresh pulled grasses. The piglets will rummage through the grasses and eat the soil stuck to the bottom, giving them their Iron. Obviously sometimes you have to step in if for some reason they still do not have enough iron, but this works for them for 90% of what they birth. They are given grasses 4-5 days a week on average.


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2014)

Pig in a poke said:


> Davstep, how much red cell did you give and what does your piglet weigh?


 I gave 4cc orally. Guess is about 1-2 lb piglet, AGH. I only gave it to the weak one. Not sure if it was the iron, but something worked. Running around now happy with the rest of the litter. They were born outside on the dirt.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

I've raised Russians (wild) in natural pens in Florida and free range domestic in TN. Never gave iron shots. Sure miss Russians....


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2014)

Need to update my previous posts on this thread and retract my statement that red cell worked. The piglet did not make it after all. seemed to be doing better after the first trip inside overnight. Brought it back in on 11/15 for showing the same symptoms of lethargy and not competing with the other piglets. Made it until noon on 11/16. 

So I can not say that red cell works or even if it was iron deficiency. I have never given an iron shot to pigs and all the other piglets and pigs are doing great. I never gave the other piglets red cell either. That specific piglet could have just had a defect. It did not appear to be a runt at birth but the others grew almost twice as fast.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

dav, thanks for the update. There are some things we will just never know. Some piglets (and pigs) will die that is just a fact of life and we may never fully know the real reason. Everyone has to make their own choices, as to how they are going to care for their livestock. I have chosen to give iron shots for the time being at least. I see no down side to giving them. Iron is not a chemical, like a wormer for instance, it is only a few bucks per piglet (if that) so it is inexpensive, and it only takes a second or 2 to give the shot when you are notching ears or looking them over that first time. So for me it is just one possible risk I can eliminate and be assured they have 100% of the iron they need, with very little effort.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The "must argue with nature camp" is always quick to point out that pig milk doesn't have iron, dirt doesn't have iron that piglets can assimilate, etc. Those are all valid arguments. The time for iron uptake is during fetal development. If you have a problem with your piglets, it is because you have a problem with your sow. There is a food source that is very taboo that fits nicely into a more natural feeding regimen, that is very high in iron, but people don't do that anymore. It was once common advice for a pregnant sow to give her some meat. But due to trichinosis this was discouraged. Some soils have plenty of iron, but it is sow uptake that prevents your problem. Meat might be taboo, but they love red cell in their water. Seems a lot easier than trying to find all of your sows nests and disturbing the force by trying to handle their pigs. If, for some scientific reason, pigs can't live through proper sow diet, then all of your wild hog troubles would be simple to fix. Just quit giving those striped piglets their iron shots!


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2014)

barnbilder said:


> The "must argue with nature camp" is always quick to point out that pig milk doesn't have iron, dirt doesn't have iron that piglets can assimilate, etc. Those are all valid arguments. The time for iron uptake is during fetal development. If you have a problem with your piglets, it is because you have a problem with your sow. There is a food source that is very taboo that fits nicely into a more natural feeding regimen, that is very high in iron, but people don't do that anymore. It was once common advice for a pregnant sow to give her some meat. But due to trichinosis this was discouraged. Some soils have plenty of iron, but it is sow uptake that prevents your problem. Meat might be taboo, but they love red cell in their water. Seems a lot easier than trying to find all of your sows nests and disturbing the force by trying to handle their pigs. If, for some scientific reason, pigs can't live through proper sow diet, then all of your wild hog troubles would be simple to fix. Just quit giving those striped piglets their iron shots!


 I agree with the above and yes they are omnivores. Being one myself I would not feel as good if I were never to eat meat. I have never had one eat any of the free ranging feathered packages but I see why they would. Our pigs roam quite a bit of woods and I'm sure they eats newts and such. Not quite the same though. Have seen them look at snakes in their fences before and never think about eating them. 

In the wild they would eat a whole prey item, including the blood and blood filtering organs which is where the natural iron would be.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

If, hypothetically, your pasture was arranged in such a way that your brood sows "found" the offal (or at least the parts that you don't pick out) from every animal that you butcher on the farm, in addition to every chilled rabbit kit, drowned duckling etc., they will gladly utilize the protein. I would recommend excluding things like, meat that humans have had on their plates, pig meat, things that you don't know the cause of death on, anything diseased or aborted, and meat from predators. Or, if that is too squishy for you, you could just add some red cell in their water.


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2014)

Adding meat in any way is not an option for us since we sell pork to others. Most everything we have processed goes to a USDA inspected facility. No offal pit to be found.

At this point not sure I need to add or do anything different. All of the other piglets, pigs present and past are doing great. Just that one individual had a complication. Our pigs receive loads of iron rich produce along with other things. We rarely feed any type of grain, only to supplement in extreme cold which we have. 

Not sure I would want red cell regularly consumed by them or the cost of purchasing it on a large scale.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Hypothetically, if you were adding meat, in raw form, without composting it first or breaking it down into egg form with an offal conversion unit,(chicken) and you did so to your brood animals and not your feeders, it might not be a problem.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Speaking of meat. From time to time I will find a freshly killed deer by the side of the road. I usually bring them home and chop them up to give to the dogs, chickens etc. Nothing more amusing to watch than a bunch of pigs, or especially piglets running around with a bone trying to find a place to eat it and keep anyone else from getting their bone. As soon as they lay it down another comes up, grabs it and takes off running. The way a pig or piglet will do with a bone is almost identical to a bunch of dogs or puppies. less the growling of course?? Who needs a TV when you got entertainment like that. 

Sorry might have been a bit off topic, but I was almost laughing reading BB post about feeding meat and thinking of how mine do!! Now back on topic again.


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