# Ford & 68 MPG Diesel Compact



## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

No market here for a 68 mpg car burning diesel??? So you are stuck with a 30 mpg gasoline car or, for less than $1.00 a gallon more, could have a 68 mpg one.

http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/ford-wont-sell-65-mpg-fiesta-in-us/164929

Ford: Where dumb decisions are made on a daily basis.


----------



## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

No market? Certainly sounds likes its more of a case of "no profit" - or not enough profit.

Small diesels and small fuel efficient vehicles are very common, just not in North America - baffling indeed.


----------



## FL.Boy (Dec 17, 2007)

Ken Scharabok said:


> No market here for a 68 mpg car burning diesel??? So you are stuck with a 30 mpg gasoline car or, for less than $1.00 a gallon more, could have a 68 mpg one.
> 
> http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/ford-wont-sell-65-mpg-fiesta-in-us/164929
> 
> Ford: Where dumb decisions are made on a daily basis.


It really would be more than a $1.00 a gallon more. Diesels need more oil at oil changes and changing the fuel filters more. A diesel is just way more up keep than a gas.


----------



## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

Diesels are cheaper in the long run to maintain. I change oil and filters every 7500 miles compared to every 3000 on my cars. Yes, they do take more oil, but when you figure out the cost per mile on oil it cheaper with a diesel. 

Bob


----------



## FL.Boy (Dec 17, 2007)

Well yes diesels last a long time but i have seen many gas motors run 150,000 miles with never raising the hood. You would be lucky to do 50,000 miles with a diesel with out raising the hood.


----------



## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

3 things to add in.

1. UK uses imperial gallons and we use US gallons. Equates to about a 10% drop in economy.

2. By the time they get it to pass our emission requirements it'll drop at least another 10%

3. MPG is calulated differently here. Another 10% drop in rated economy.

So how's the market outlook for the Fiesta diesel with an ecomony rating of about 45mpg? not good. Not many would pay the extra when they can get a Yaris or Fit and have it cost less per mile on fuel.


----------



## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Yes exchange rates can really skew things.Shame they didnt build it here,I would buy something like that.


----------



## benevolance (Aug 10, 2008)

It is ridiculous the stringent emissions that they require diesels to have... gasoline cars get a free ride emission wise.

Overall diesel cars the same size and weight as a gas with the same approximate amount of power burn 40% less fuel...So if a fuel efficient eco box like the Scion were to give say for easy math 40 miles to the gallon the same car with a diesel would give 55+ miles to the gallon.

Now regarding emissions...Diesels do emit more particulates and NOX gases... but less greenhouse emissions and if they are burning 40% less fuel that is 40% less carbon released into the atmosphere...

the volkswagons pass the stringent emission requirements for diesels...So the focus could also...The advanced catalytic convertors do not limit the jetta's mileage by 10 miles per gallon...

Fact is that if half the new cars in america were small or mid sized diesels... and america consumed 40% less fuel...the government would collect 40% less taxes and the oil companies would sell 40% less product. we need look no further to determine why we are not offered smaller fuel efficient vehicles here in America.

On top of all of this if America consumed 40% fossil fuels due to automobiles there would be drop in demand worldwide...and the price of crude and gasoline and diesel would drop by 20%... which would cut into the money the oil companies make even more... ditto for the taxation collected by our government...Most of the taxes on fuel are based on the total cost of the fuel...So the more it costs the higher the government taxation rate on it...It is a fixed % of the value of the fuel...

And people wonder why gasoline prices are so ----ed high...

Our local politicians always say they will look into high gas prices.. but they do not want the price of fuel to ever go down... simply because it is a cash cow for them in revenue generation


----------



## FL.Boy (Dec 17, 2007)

benevolance said:


> It is ridiculous the stringent emissions that they require diesels to have... gasoline cars get a free ride emission wise.
> 
> Overall diesel cars the same size and weight as a gas with the same approximate amount of power burn 40% less fuel...So if a fuel efficient eco box like the Scion were to give say for easy math 40 miles to the gallon the same car with a diesel would give 55+ miles to the gallon.
> 
> ...


Doesn't diesel have more tax on it? If not then why is it 25% higher than gas prices? The problem i have with diesel is it has higher maintenance cost then gas motors.


----------



## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

benevolance said:


> It is ridiculous the stringent emissions that they require diesels to have... gasoline cars get a free ride emission wise.
> 
> Overall diesel cars the same size and weight as a gas with the same approximate amount of power burn 40% less fuel...So if a fuel efficient eco box like the Scion were to give say for easy math 40 miles to the gallon the same car with a diesel would give 55+ miles to the gallon.
> 
> Now regarding emissions...Diesels do emit more particulates and NOX gases... but less greenhouse emissions and if they are burning 40% less fuel that is 40% less carbon released into the atmosphere...


Hi,
If you go to www.fueleconomy.gov and compare the Jetta diesel to the Jetta gas it comes out like this:

mpg city/highway 
diesel 30/41 
gas 29/40

CO2 emissions 
diesel 6.2 tons/year 
gas 6.4 tons/year

When you consider that diesel has about a 10% higher heat content in the fuel, it does not seem like much difference to me? Maybe the newer ones coming out based on the low sulfur diesel will be better?

Interesting report that covers the whole diesel picture.
http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/clean_vehicles/dieseldilemma_fullreport.pdf

It says that when you consider all factors, the lifetime CO2 emissions from a new diesel powered car (one that meets the new standards) would be about 15% less than an equivalent gasoline powered car.

Makes me wonder if hybrids don't offer a better path? Or, maybe T. Boone's CNG cars?


Gary

Some quotes from above doc:
From UCS
Future diesel vehicles may not be as clean as
todayâs best gasoline cars. Todayâs diesel cars and
trucks are major polluters, releasing substantially
more toxic soot and smog-forming nitrogen
oxides from the tailpipe than the average
gasoline vehicle. New federal regulations coming
into full effect in 2009 will hold diesel engines
to the same set of tailpipe standards as gasoline
cars and trucks, but the structure of these standards
allows some cars to release two times
more soot and nearly three times more nitrogen
oxides than the average vehicle.

While some conventional and hybridelectric
gasoline cars are already several times
cleaner than the average vehicle under the new
tailpipe standards, no diesel vehicles are currently
capable of meeting even the average standards.
If diesel cars are unable to meet progressively
tighter emissions standards, future
progress in protecting public health may stall.


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Benevolance, I've been hearing in the last few days about how the feds are concerned big time because driving and demand for gas is down so less fed taxes meaning less fed money for road building.

What a vicious circle that one is.

And yet another case of a fed department that has gotten use to a very fat budget . . . . . . . .And now look we gotta trim the budget . . .and we don't know how to do that. 

So by that reasoning if Joe public had a 68mpg "car" . . All our roads would fall apart. 

We must Not interfere with the beauro-snots cash cow. (taxes)


----------



## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

FL Boy-I dont think you know dogsquat about motors----150,000 WITHOUT raising the hood on a gas motor-quit smoking before typing.....Diesels are far more efficent,longer lasting,etc than gas...But what do I know I just turned 889,750 on my Detroit....


----------



## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Diesel option on a new car is usually high dollar compared to whatever standard gas engine comes in that car. Figuring in the higher cost for diesel, how many miles before you even pay for diesel engine let alone save anything. 

Also remember these are new car buyers they are trying to appeal to. Mostly brand new car buyers buy out of an emotional need, not to actually try to save a few pennies in the second hundred thousand miles on the odometer. Forget diesels for a moment and just as a used car buyer, I dont want all the gadgets that usually are non functional or malfunctioning by time I get hold of the car. I absolutely hate electric windows, consider them the scourge of mankind. Also not thrilled with high tech engines and high tech fuel delivery systems. All this means its going to be EXPENSIVE to fix if something breaks, probably more than car is worth if the parts are even still available. And whats with these things they are calling pickups now, basically a Bronco with a tool box bolted on rear of it, forget any practical use as a working truck.


----------



## FL.Boy (Dec 17, 2007)

zant said:


> FL Boy-I dont think you know dogsquat about motors----150,000 WITHOUT raising the hood on a gas motor-quit smoking before typing.....Diesels are far more efficent,longer lasting,etc than gas...But what do I know I just turned 889,750 on my Detroit....


I saw it done over and over, 889,750 with lots of rebuilding and work.


----------



## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

The motors never been touched internally-externally just the usual-waterpump and air compressor..Most Detroit go 1.2m if you do maintence....


----------



## FL.Boy (Dec 17, 2007)

zant said:


> The motors never been touched internally-externally just the usual-waterpump and air compressor..Most Detroit go 1.2m if you do maintence....


Dump truck , Semi ? Diesel is great for big trucks pulling 10,000 or more and is great for tractors, equipment. But diesel is not the answer to our gas problem. Look on the Internet and you will find that diesel motors in cars and 1 ton pickups get very little if any better mpg than the same gas car or truck, with more up front cost and higher maintenance fees and higher fuel prices diesel is a step back. Plus the diesel motors in cars and trucks is no where near the quality that larger trucks and equipment get.


----------



## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

FL.Boy said:


> Doesn't diesel have more tax on it? If not then why is it 25% higher than gas prices? The problem i have with diesel is it has higher maintenance cost then gas motors.


 Diesels will outlast gas engines. Partly because of lower average RPMS over the life of the engine.


----------



## FL.Boy (Dec 17, 2007)

greg273 said:


> Diesels will outlast gas engines. Partly because of lower average RPMS over the life of the engine.


yes they will but high price up front for a diesel and higher maintenance fee and higher fuel prices will put them right back in the same ball park. But i have seen and owned many cars with 300,000 miles on them. Propane is great they burn clean and last a long time. My dad had a 77 Ford E-150 with a 300 6 cyl that ran on propane had 400,000 plus miles on it all he did to that van was add oil and transmission fluid. He got rid of it still running but the sides of it had rusted out looked like Swiss cheese


----------

