# Free range pigs



## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

I am seriously thinking about putting up an electric fence and putting some pigs in it to free range, on about, well lets say 1/2 sq. mile. Maybe more but I will start there. It is all woods with a spring fed creek that I can jump the fence over and give them maybe 500 feet of creek bed plus woods on the other side. The creek is a large one but it does run year round and has some wide places that are maybe a foot deep where it ponds up.

I need some info on doing this, such as how many strains of wire will be needed, How big a charger will I need, and what size wire will I need to use.
And if electric fence will even work. Some one one the other thread I started about this said he has a friend that has them in an electric so I just thought I would come here and ask for opinions. 
I can give them a 30 gallon trash can of scrapes every day but was hoping to let them root the ground as much as possible. I can actually give them a lot more than one can a day. If need be, I could get up probably 5 or 10 cans of restaurants for them. 

How much slop does a single pig, or hog need to eat each day????

How often do they mate and how many to a litter, or do they just have a single piglet at a time?? In other words, or a dummies question, how fast will they multiply. 
If they multiply fast I can serve them up with several 30 gallon cans of slop every day, need be. 

I have no idea what they eat, as far as the amount, I do know they will eat anything, including "you" given a chance. 

I just want to put them back there and leave them alone so they can do there own thing as much as possible. 

My uncles and aunts had them all the time but Daddy never did so I am dumb when it comes to them. 

I have my chickens down pat so far, the garden is just about ready to go in, and dad gummit, I was 30 minutes late getting two free goats yesterday from a man that had got "TIRED" of them. Gave them away 30 minutes before I got there. 

I have plenty of deer around here I can hunt, "wabbits" coming out the wood work before I even get the garden planted, and I have a lot of land right here I can use, "I THINK"!!!! 

I haven't yet talked t the man that owns most of the land where I want to do this, but I would bet a dollar to a dime that he says go for it, but he wants some of the meat,:shrug: That ain't no big deal. He may even help me buy the stuff for the fence if he gets a Christmas ham every year, which ain't no big deal either after they multiply. 

Ya'll pig owners, give me some lessons here if you will. Yeas and nays as well. I don't want to start this blind. I need to know the ups and the "DOWNS".

Thanks ahead of time. 
Dennis


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

I would run at least two strands. One about 6 inches off the ground, and the other at about 15-18. You'll have to be DILIGENT about checking it to make sure nothing gets rooted up against it to short it out. If it does it doesn't take them long to figure out it's not hot and out they go.

Most chargers are rated by how strong they are, and will give you a number telling you how many miles of fence they will charge. I've found that most don't quite live up to that number. Figure out how much fence you're running, multiply it by the number of strands you have, and then get a charger that says it will charge as much more than that as you can afford.

High tensile wire is the best, but it's expensive and it's more difficult to work with. I'd go with the 14 gauge electric fence wire. It's more economical and easier to work with than the high tensile, but it's stronger and lasts longer than the smaller wire.

A sow will usually raise two litters per year, and a good sow will average at least 8-10 pigs per litter. So, yes they multiply rapidly. You will need a ready market and a way to load the pigs to sell, or they will overrun your space very quickly. 

You will also need to castrate the male pigs if you're planning to sell them. At this point, there is still a major deduction at the markets for the intact males. If you sell the pork direct to a consumer, most are going to want the males castrated. 

There are some on here who do not castrate with no problems. The strong flavor in the meat known as "boar taint" is a genetic trait. If your hogs don't have the trait, castration is unneccessary, If they do, then you'll need to castrate. The only way to know for sure is let an intact male get to slaughter weight, butcher it and try it.

Be aware that any restaurant swill that you feed to hogs must be cooked first. Most states regulate your cooking methods and require periodic inspections to verify compliance.

With the price of fuel to pick it up, more fuel to cook it, and dealing with the state regulations and inspections, it had never been worth it to me to feed swill. I think you'll be more satisfied if you supplement the pasture with a good quality hog feed instead of the swill. The more pasture you have, the less you'll need to feed.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

crafty2002 said:


> I am seriously thinking about putting up an electric fence and putting some pigs in it to free range, on about, well lets say 1/2 sq. mile.


Sub-divide it up into paddocks to do intensive rotational grazing. This works much better than just free running over the whole thing, less soil compaction, better grazing patters, better parasite control, etc.



crafty2002 said:


> I need some info on doing this, such as how many strains of wire will be needed,


Two wires is enough in most cases. Much harder to fence piglets than bigger pigs. Visual maker helps.



crafty2002 said:


> How big a charger will I need,


As big as you can afford. I would suggest larger than 1.5 joule. 6 joule or larger preferred.



crafty2002 said:


> what size wire will I need to use.


I use electrified high tensile smooth wire 12.5 guage for the outer perimeter and polywire for the inside.



crafty2002 said:


> And if electric fence will even work


Pigs are very respectful of electricity once they're trained to it - just like most animals. Train in a securely physically fenced area with a hot wire inside at nose levels (walking low and high). Check fences regularly.



crafty2002 said:


> I can give them a 30 gallon trash can of scrapes every day but was hoping to let them root the ground as much as possible. I can actually give them a lot more than one can a day. If need be, I could get up probably 5 or 10 cans of restaurants for them. How much slop does a single pig, or hog need to eat each day????


I would strongly recommend against using post-consumer wastes (slopping, garbage feeding, etc) such as what comes from restaurants. Disease issues. May be illegal. Check your state laws. There are many sources of pre-consumer foods that are free and make great, safe, legal pig feeds. Bread, dairy, garden gleanings, apple squeezings, cheese trim, etc. Pasture can supply most or even all of the pigs needs. Add other things to balance the diet and they'll grow faster.



crafty2002 said:


> How often do they mate


Two litters a year is typical. A little more if you do well.



crafty2002 said:


> how many to a litter, or do they just have a single piglet at a time??


Six to fourteen per litter is typical, varies with the sow and breed, eight per litter is average.



crafty2002 said:


> In other words, or a dummies question, how fast will they multiply. If they multiply fast I can serve them up with several 30 gallon cans of slop every day, need be. I have no idea what they eat, as far as the amount, I do know they will eat anything, including "you" given a chance. ...


To big a question. There is a great book "Small Scale Pig Raising" by Dirk van Loon that I would *highly* recommend. Also read back through the archives of this discussion group where you'll find many questions answered including those you haven't even thought to ask yet. Pigs are hardy and a lot of fun.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

That was a great help. I had just about given up on the idea but maybe not so fast now. I am going to study it a little more before I decide one way or another and will be asking a lot more questions here.

To start with, Walter, you said you wouldn't use waste from a restaurant because of diseases. If I pressure wash two 30 gallon cans a day and take one up there and swap it out after lunch and then the second one after closing, it looks like the food should be good for the pigs. I am just asking. I know you know what you are talking about and I don't, but if a pig could get some disease from this, I don't think I would even want to eat there. 

The next thing is if I bought a couple of small piglet, how long would it be before they would mate the first time. And would the first time be a smaller litter than after they get larger??? I believe it probably would but as I said, I am pig dumb so far. Hey, I was chicken dumb when I got my first chickens. Just jump in with both feet and enjoy the swim. LOL. 

Next is I can ride the fence line every day with the riding mower to make sure it doesn't get grounded out. And considering the land they will be on touches the city limits, I won't even think about cutting myself short on the fencing. If I can't afford to do it right, I will wait until I can. From what everyone one the other site is saying, I sure don't want them getting out. That will be a main priority. 

As far as them rooting and all, they cant hurt the land I want to put them on. I talked to Chester last night and he said go for it if I want to. 
It is all wooded and over grown. I am hoping to buy it but have to earn more than what my disability check is before I can think of it. So far I am up to 68 chickens and that number is growing pretty fast now. I have two hens setting on I don't know how many eggs. At least 20 and maybe 30 or more. 

Does anyone here do pig pickings?????? 
Pigs slow cooked over the coals. I was thinking about building a trailer with a smoker on it and doing it at party's etc. Any ideas on that. I have plenty of hickory trees if the pigs will clear the way for me to get to them.:sing:

And again, Thanks Walter and tyusclan both for the answers. 

Dennis


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

Tyusclan and Walter have given you lots of good info.
My advice would be this Dennis: Pursue your plan- but ease into it gradual like rather than jumping in both feet first. I say this because pigs are unlike other animals. Raise out a batch of feeders as a way to learn how to work with them. Moving and loading them is an art form best learned by doing. Loading them up at butcher time is an adventure the first time.
Believe you me these ain't like chickens!
If you succeed at this, and you decide you & hogs go together, then get a breeding pair or a couple sows and move into breeding and farrowing. It is a whole 'nother level!

The one thing I disagree with a lot of folks is this: Unless local law prohibits it, I am in favor of using discarded food sources in the raising of hogs. The U.S. is a spoiled country that wastes far too many resources. Resources that people all over the rest of the world would put to good use. Cook it if you can or are required by law to do so.

The beauty of starting out with a batch of feeders is this: If you decide hogs are not for you, or it doesn't pan out financially or for what ever reason, you load 'em all up, haul them to meat locker and you're done with it!

Liquidation or contraction of a hog operation are valuable tools a small scale hog owner may employ at any given time!


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## Paul O (Sep 13, 2004)

A lot of folks feed restaurant scraps to pigs. I know of at least one farmer that takes scraps from a restaurant that only serves organic food. His farm is certified organic but I donât know if he sells his pork as organic also.

In any case it needs to be cooked. I canât imagine any state that doesnât require it to be cooked. Disease could come from the patrons as well as the restaurant. Just storing garbage without refrigeration, even for a short time, allows unwanted stuff to grow (Trichinosis comes to mind). Just think of what would be in the mixâ¦chicken, milk, cream etc. Another drawback is stuff other than food in the trash such as broken glass.

The choice is yours but you really need to cook the stuff first.

Just My $0.02
Paul
:1pig: :1pig: :1pig:


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## derekv (Jan 31, 2007)

see if a gorcery store wont give you the waste food that has spoiled.


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

I will indeed move into it slowly. If I do this it will begin with "TWO" baby pigs that get to know me up front. We will be friends when they decide to mate and have baby pigs. 

I have read a couple of times people talking about cooking the food. There are a few restaurants that I could get food from. Now I am wondering if, and I know if you bring nearly anything to a boil and hold it there for 10 minutes it kills nearly every thing bad. I can build a 30 gallon stainless steal pot and a wood fired cooker to put them on and do that. 
Would you think that may be the safest way to go about this if I use scraps?? 

And I agree with you Up North. If you can turn scraps into good meat, safely, there is no sense in adding to a dump. But like I said, I have barely scratched the top of the mountain of what I need to learn here. 

It's the same way I did with the chickens. I learned, ask questions, learned, asked more questions and learned some more before even getting a toe wet. 
The water felt warm and I took the plunge. I have 45 chickens not 15 feet from me getting ready to go outside as soon as I finish the new tractor I am working on. 
I will be as diligent, well actually even more so with pigs as I was with the chickens. I got bit by a mama hog when I was a kid. I get pecked by the chickens but that's funny. It wasn't funny when that sow grabbed me and pulled me through the mud..........
What I am saying is I know there is a world of difference in hogs and chickens. 
I am just working on the idea now. I really want to raise some but I am not in a situation that I can afford to get in over my head right now. I mean I have to make every penny count and pigs eating free food just sounded like a good idea for me. Given the use of the land and all. 
I am trying to use the free land I have to the best of my ability to help me get out of the hole I got in when I fell. 
I lucked up and they dropped all the hospital bills that SS didn't pay and Thank God for that, But it left me setting at the bottom of the world with a little bitty disability check every month. What's worse is even tho I can't work, "I CAN'T JUST SET HERE ON MY BUTT AND WATCH TV" 
It just don't work for me. It looks like 99% of the people in the US would be happy with what I get but not me. 
I have got to find a way out. I can't work a job, "YET" but can't set back and do nothing either. 
From what I have learned so far, this sounds like a go. 

Another question..... I am also thinking about building a BBQ pit on a trailer and do some "pig pickings" with fresh pigs. 

I am not sure what they charge around here but I know if the price was right there would be a lot more of them. Seems everyone wants to get rich every time they walk out the door. 
If I could raise pigs on scraps, and have to make two trips a day to get the 30 gallon cans of "FREE FOOD" for them, I would love to do pig pickings for a couple hundred bucks a piece and furnish the wild pig to boot. 
I mean, just think about it. I can't work a regular job. I don't have the money to get out and have a good time. My idea of having a good time is working and not hurting. 
If I could raise pigs and BBQ them, heck the more I think about it the better it sounds. I would be the life of the party. That has never happened before. :rotfl: 

But for real, it sounds like a good idea for me personally. If I can get the pigs to stay in a fenced in area and stay there long enough for pig picking, not only would I make some money, but enjoy doing it at the same time. 
How can you beat that?????????????

Well thanks for all the answers and someone said something about people answering questions you never thought to ask. I am well versed in that. The people on HT does that near about every day. 
Thanks again and please keep posting because I know I haven't asked all the questions I need to.

Dennis


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## PlowGirl (Nov 16, 2005)

Crafty, if you have permission from the landowner to turn pigs out onto it, and are going to go into this venture cautiously by just starting with a few head, a half square mile (160 acres m/l) will provide all they can eat, without supplementing (food waste or otherwise). Why go to all that time, effort, and expense when the pigs will forage naturally and be better tasting to boot? Unless you plan on running alot more head, right off the bat, you shouldn't need to do anything other than make sure they don't get out. 

I would suggest that you build a sturdy "treat pen" where you can feed somethings especially tasty every so often, just to keep them from going completely feral. It would also make it easier to catch and pen them when it's time to harvest.


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## Dirtslinger (Feb 10, 2007)

At least around here, this wouldn't work because predators would step over the fence and pick them off. Everything needs to be super-fenced, and close enough to see/hear is pretty much required as well. Just a thought, if you have bears, coyotes or even local dogs...


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Put in 3 sides of the pasture as a permanent perimeter fence and have the fourth a temporary fence. The temporary side is where the expansion will occur should you decide this is a viable venture. Reverify the amount of area you will be fencing as 1/2 of a square mile is 320 acres. Only use 12 1/2 gauge grade 3 galvanizing high tensile wire to get it to last. Do not use the cheap plastic posts, get the 3/4 inch diameter fiberglass predrilled posts and you will not have to use insulators and you can adjust the fence heights in 2 inch increments. These posts can be easily pounded into the ground with a manual tee posts driver. The high tensile wire comes in 4000 feet lengths per roll. This fence can tolerate tree limbs and even trees falling on it and survive. You do not want to be chasing a herd of pigs about town trying to get them back in the fence. Escaped pigs can do a lot of damage and you will be responsible. Buy the most expensive charger your can afford but spend at least $200 plus. Get a brand name one with a good warranty. Eventually you will need a second charger as a standby for when the in use one breaks. The best advice given was to start small. You will quickly learn whether you like the smell of hog manure or not. Good luck with your venture!


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

I want to thank everyone for the answers I am getting but I am not getting answers to some of my questions that I need before I decide whether to get into this or not. 

So I'll tell you where I stand right now and maybe you can help me better. Plus I will ask some point blank questions. 

As it stands right now, I have I think, only 42 acres that I can use as of now which should be good for a while to come. 
As I said, I am going to start out slow any way, but looking at the size of the litters a sow has, and the fact they have them two times a year it wont take long to multiply like crazy. 
If Darrel says I can use his land, which I feel like he will, I will have a lot more land to use but I can't tell right now how much it will be. I don't think it will be more than 1/2 sq. mile if that much. I think the max will be about 250 acres looking at the maps and trying to figure it out. 

But that should be plenty to raise all the pigs I want to fool with. 

OK, for the questions,,,,

How Long does it take a pig to get to have her first litter????

Is the first litter the smallest and then they start having more each time to a certain point???

If I graze them and move them about, how long will they be OK on how many acres before having to move them??

I have 20 more acres of field right behind the house I can use but it is in the city. All but two acres anyway, but I can grow whatever I can for the pigs there. I plan on planting about 2 acres this year for chicken feed already. I have already bought 10# of poultry mix and I bought two 25# bags of bird seed today to mix with it. 
So what kind of seed can I plant for the pigs? 

I have to run now so I will check back later and check out the answers. 
Thanks a lot.

Dennis


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

crafty2002 said:


> How Long does it take a pig to get to have her first litter????


About a year.



crafty2002 said:


> Is the first litter the smallest and then they start having more each time to a certain point???


Yes.



crafty2002 said:


> If I graze them and move them about, how long will they be OK on how many acres before having to move them??


Too many variables.



crafty2002 said:


> I have 20 more acres of field right behind the house I can use but it is in the city.


What is a city?



crafty2002 said:


> So what kind of seed can I plant for the pigs?


Beets, mangles, turnips, carrots, potatoes, clover, grasses, herbs, corn, pumpkins, sunflowers, burdock (your neighbors will hate you), thistle (same)... Figure out what grows well. Pigs will eat most anything.



crafty2002 said:


> I have to run now so I will check back later and check out the answers.


Hmm...

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Thanks Walter. I saw the picture on your blog of the sow and the piglets. They won my wife and daughter over for me getting some pigs. :sing:
Stacey said the spotted one wasn't really a piglet. She says it's a Dalmation ,LOL. 
Why are my neighbors going to hate me??? They will be at least a quarter mile from any body else's house. If the oder is that strong even when they free range maybe I should just forget it. 
I remember when I was a kid and we went to a few uncles or aunts houses the pig pens smelled really bad but they were locked in pens not half as big as my house is. I mean it wasn't anything but mud and hog poop. I am not expecting to have something like that. I hope not anyway. 
I already have seeds for all you listed except for mangles, clover, burdock (What in the world is that anyway), and thistle(same question).
I know I don't have nearly enough seeds for this year but I am planning on letting a lot of everything I plant this year go to seed. 
But I do have a lot of packets of beets carrots and turnip seeds. Probably a half dozen of each of them. 

Oh, a city is that place that used to be the country but got anexed by the people down town, :lookout: . 

Something told me it would be about a year before they could have babies. So if I didn't slaughter any for a few years I am looking at , (OK let me see here, no, I don't even want to try to do the math,) a bunch of pigs really fast after the first two years.

I best get started building a cooker on wheels, :buds:

How large will a pig get in a year???
And how long do you keep your pigs before you slaughter them?? I saw on your blog that you have them different weights, so can you give me an idea of how many months for what weights??? I know it will be according to what they are feed, but a ball park figure I can judge what I could do on. 

Thanks again.
Dennis


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

crafty2002 said:


> Thanks Walter. I saw the picture on your blog of the sow and the piglets. They won my wife and daughter over for me getting some pigs. :sing:
> Stacey said the spotted one wasn't really a piglet. She says it's a Dalmation ,LOL.
> Why are my neighbors going to hate me???


Nothing to do with pigs. We have no smell issue with pigs on pasture. I was refering to the thistles and burdock. Beautiful flowers. Horrible spines and seed packages that get bound up in the fur of dogs, wool of sheep, etc. Pigs are worth getting if one has thistles or burdock in order to clear out the patches. The pigs love those plants and will tear out the roots. Thistles & burdocks begone.



crafty2002 said:


> What in the world is that anyway), and thistle(same question).


Thistles:
http://sugarmtnfarm.com/blog/2005/09/thistle-seeds.html

Burdock:
http://i.treehugger.com/files/burdock_burr.jpg

Google is a friend of mine...



crafty2002 said:


> Oh, a city is that place that used to be the country but got anexed by the people down town, :lookout:


Sounds scary. I'll keep my eyes out for them.



crafty2002 said:


> Something told me it would be about a year before they could have babies. So if I didn't slaughter any for a few years I am looking at , (OK let me see here, no, I don't even want to try to do the math,) a bunch of pigs really fast after the first two years.


Yes. Sharpen that pencil.



crafty2002 said:


> How large will a pig get in a year???


Depends greatly on the breed. Around 350 lbs. Maybe more for fast growers. You want meat, not fat.



crafty2002 said:


> And how long do you keep your pigs before you slaughter them??


Typically about six months. Less for smaller roasters and such.



crafty2002 said:


> I saw on your blog that you have them different weights, so can you give me an idea of how many months for what weights??? I know it will be according to what they are feed, but a ball park figure I can judge what I could do on.


It takes about six months for a pig to grow to a slaughter weight of about 225 to 250 lbs or so. They grow at a faster rate earlier but at a faster pound per day from the middle on. 250 lbs / 180 days = average gain per day. They put on more fat at the end. Make a chart of your target weights, gain rates and days to goal. Then throw it away, the chart, because what breed you have, feed and other conditions will be different.  After a few years experience you'll figure it out. Don't get too hooked up in exactness.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Thanks again Walter. Now I know what those skin jerkers are, LOL. 
I had no idea a pig could grow that fast. That in itself made up my mind on whether or not to buy a couple and give it a try. 
Hold do they need to be before you take them away from mama sow???? 

I have no idea what bread I should try to get. Heck, I don't even know what breeds there are yet. What would you suggest for a beginner????
Plus I do want some fat on them to mix with deer meat for sausage and hamburger. My BIL used to make the best sausage and hamburger both that I have ever tasted from deer and pork fat. 

I am thinking if I got about for of them instead of two I could be cooking a pig in a smoker in maybe 4 months now. I buy big hunks of pork and don't really care which cut it is now and cook it and we chop it up for BBQ. We just freeze what we don't eat the first day along with the grease it's in and heat it back up and love it. Cole slaw and French fries and look out, :icecream:.....

Thanks again and here's cheers to you too.:buds: LOL.

Dennis


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

crafty2002 said:


> Thanks again Walter. Now I know what those skin jerkers are, LOL.


I'm not familiar with the term skin jerkers...?



crafty2002 said:


> I had no idea a pig could grow that fast. That in itself made up my mind on whether or not to buy a couple and give it a try.
> Hold do they need to be before you take them away from mama sow????


About four to six weeks typically. Longer and the sow's milk production has dipped and the piglet's needs have grown too high.



crafty2002 said:


> I have no idea what bread I should try to get. Heck, I don't even know what breeds there are yet. What would you suggest for a beginner????


Anything will do to get you started. Get two or four piglets this year. Raise them up. Butcher them. Eat them. Share them. Learn. You'll know so much more next winter. Then rinse and repeat. After a few years of that you'll be a bit experienced and ready to try your hand at breeding. Don't rush, plenty of time.

Have fun,

-WalterJ


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## .netDude (Nov 26, 2004)

not trying to be confrontational or disparaging, but there is a certain physical aspect to rasinig hogs - namely if one gets out, castrating time (if you choose) and at loading time. Not to mention fencing that 42 acres. Not sure what your disability is, but maybe something you want to consider.


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

.netDude said:


> not trying to be confrontational or disparaging, but there is a certain physical aspect to rasinig hogs - namely if one gets out, castrating time (if you choose) and at loading time. Not to mention fencing that 42 acres. Not sure what your disability is, but maybe something you want to consider.


I am quite disabled but the good thing is I am more hard headed than that. I ain't but 53 years old and ain't ready to set down yet. It hurts to even walk but you can't get from point A to point B by wishing it to happen. 
The fencing will take me some time to do. I know that and I know my body isn't going to like it but it doesn't like setting in a chair watching TV either. If I am going to hurt I might as well hurt doing something I want to and I hate TV anymore. Two or three years of TV force feed to you, well it just gets old. 
But thanks for your concern.



Walter, I just made up the term "skin jerkers" !!! That's what they are. The plants that jerk the skin from you when you try to walk through a patch of them. :lookout:
I guess I will go to the auction this month and see what they have. I probably was 10 years old the last time I was out there. 
That's funny. That is about the only place still here that was here when I was that young. I hadn't thought of that. The Va./ N.C. livestock market. I'll call them tomorrow and see what's up. That's somewhere my daughter needs to go. At least one experience that I had growing up. I did take her to an old auto action I used to go to and she enjoyed it but I think she will love this. She loves animals. 

One more question. If you would, check out this site and see if the fence chargers are worth their weight in salt. www.harborfreight.com , item # 47454-1VGA. 
They say they are good for 3 to 5 miles of fence. I can make insulators easily from PVC pipe and attach them to the trees around the area I am fencing in , or will be if I do this and what I would like to do is buy two of these for two single wires this month and add one a month until I have 5 strains of the high tensile wires with a separate charger for each wire. 
I don't want these pigs getting loose if there is any way to keep it from happening. 
I want a solar powered charger because the fence will start about 1,200 feet from the house and it would cost more for wire to run down there than a big charger would cost. 

Thanks again for the info.
Dennis

ETA:: .netDude, I didn't feel you were being confrontational or disparaging at all. Advice is what I am looking for and I have found out there are a lot of questions I never even know to ask that gets answered here. I know I will have my hands full but I can round up some help when really needed. I very seldom ask but I know where it's at if I do need it.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

I've seen very little that comes from Harbor Freight that isn't junk, and this charger is no exception.

Go to your local feed store or coop and see what they have. You might also check with Tractor Supply or Agri Supply. I haven't looked to see what they have, cause I have to get up from here and go to work. The links for each are below.

A good charger is gonna cost you quite a bit more, but I'm sure you will not be satisfied with this one from Harbor Freight.

www.agrisupply.com
www.tractorsupply.com


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

tyusclan said:


> I've seen very little that comes from Harbor Freight that isn't junk, and this charger is no exception.
> 
> Go to your local feed store or coop and see what they have. You might also check with Tractor Supply or Agri Supply. I haven't looked to see what they have, cause I have to get up from here and go to work. The links for each are below.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice tyusclan. I have another question now. I saw some where, ether on one of the threads I started or someone else's, where some one posted to get a charger that was 1.5 to 6 .0 joules. What I am seeing is .25 and .5 joules mostly. I still don't know exactly what a joule is, even tho I was an electrician but I imagine that it is the amount of "bite" the fence will have.
There was one charger that jumped from .??? joules to 15 joules. Is this misprints or is there no in between. I can't believe they don't have 2 or 3 joule chargers and then jumps all the way to 15 joules.

I remember as a kid the man next door had two horses in a pen with a 9 volt battery powered charger that would knock the s*** out of you. At least it did me when I was 10-12 years old. More than one time too. And it kept the horses in. I guess they were pony's but they never got out that I remember. 

So what is the deal with the joule's ???????? Most of them just says 5 miles or ten miles etc. 

Plus I see where they say light to moderate or moderate to heavy weeds. . 
Since it hurts to walk very far when I put the fence in, I will cut a path with the riding mower all around it before I even start to install the fence and cat keep the weeds down with a weed eater after I get them cut the first time. Actually I have walked the area pretty good to see where I could put the fence at and there is a pretty clear circle that is already fairly clear to start with. 

I really wanted a solar powered charger if possible but after looking I am not so sure plus I am wondering if I shouldn't just criss cross it and start by going around my gardens to start with to keep the thieves out at the same time. I wanted to put a fence around them also so I may just be better to buy a 120 volt charger and do that. 

I am still just trying to figure out the cheapest, but yet sufficient way to do it. 
Thanks for all the advice you have given me. Just learning before I even stick a toe in the water, LOL.
Dennis


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## RedHogs (Jul 7, 2006)

For the area you are talking about, two chargers will be necessary to be safe....10 joule + each.....Paramark's Range master is my perferred choice. With two chargers and lightning protection.....$600 dollars would be a cheap setup.....Don't scimp on charger, don't buy the best...buy two.


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## downtheginroad (Mar 20, 2008)

derekv said:


> see if a gorcery store wont give you the waste food that has spoiled.


This is what I do. Don't bother asking the folks at ChinaMart, they'd rather toss it out than let you have it, but a lot of your smaller supermarkets will hook you up if you ask nicely and promise to be discrete and prompt on the pickup. We fill 2 32 gallon trash cans a day with fruits and veggies of all sorts, and that's after we've cherry picked it for what we want for ourselves. The closest to spoiled that I've picked up was a smashed bell pepper or tomato, most of it is darn near pristine.


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## jdcollis (Jan 1, 2008)

I pick up produce everyday from a local store, 2 50 gallon trash bags full of all kinds of stuff. What the pigs won't eat, our chickens will  Here's a picture of one of our gilts at the trough.


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

Dennis a good resource to learn about fence chargers, how they work,why they sometimes don't work, and what power is appropriate for your situation, I would suggest that you go to www.premier1supplies.com and request their *FREE* catalog. A good reference on all types of fencing materials and constructions. 
We use a fencer that is rated at 6 Joules/100 miles. If properly maintained, a cow or hog will not breach the fence.


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

jdcollis said:


> I pick up produce everyday from a local store, 2 50 gallon trash bags full of all kinds of stuff. What the pigs won't eat, our chickens will  Here's a picture of one of our gilts at the trough.


Hand me a fork and a bottle of Ranch Dressing and I'll shove that Hamp aside myself!...LOL!


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## jdcollis (Jan 1, 2008)

Up North said:


> Hand me a fork and a bottle of Ranch Dressing and I'll shove that Hamp aside myself!...LOL!


LOL 

Sometimes I think they eat better than me!


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Up North said:


> Dennis a good resource to learn about fence chargers, how they work,why they sometimes don't work, and what power is appropriate for your situation, I would suggest that you go to www.premier1supplies.com and request their *FREE* catalog. A good reference on all types of fencing materials and constructions.
> We use a fencer that is rated at 6 Joules/100 miles. If properly maintained, a cow or hog will not breach the fence.


Thanks Up North. I ordered the catalog today. I also looked at some at Tractor Supply when I picked up the chicken feed today too. OUCH!!!!!! I guess I'll have to pay if I play, LOL. 

I also know the manager at the Old Dutch grocery store so I will ask her about it the next time I see her. 

And RedHogs, I was thinking I should get several lower powered chargers instead of one large one already. Maybe I can spread the cost out over about 3 months. 

Let me ask you all this question! Is a young pig more, well I don't know how to say it. Will a baby pig get zapped harder from a certain charger that one say one 3 or 4 months old??? 

Thanks for all the info. I am still weighing the cost and pain against the gain, but it still looks it's worth it so far. The thought of 4-500 lbs of meat from 2 or 3 pigs sure sounds tasty.  Plus even 150-175 lbs. each would pay for a lot of wire and a couple of chargers. 
And like everything else we eat, I would know it was raised right, what went into them and I know it would be better than store bought. 

Thanks again for the help.
Dennis


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

The heavier the liveweight of an animal, the more down pressure to make contact between soil and hoof, the bigger the ZAP!
If their feet are standing in water or wet ground, any animal will get knocked on it's butt. Store this in your memory for the day you "train" your pigs to electric fencing.

Now about all this accounting and trying to see if you will come out to the good. All well and good. Now how about the Therapeutic benefits of raising a few hogs? Knowing that the animals depend on you and you alone to get outside and feed and water them can be good for a person. If a person has a down day or it is grey and rainy, sit and watch the antics of pigs for a spell.
The sheer joy they take in just being alive can make anyone forget their troubles. Better entertainment than television, LOL.

Hey, always remember, Persistance Overcomes Resistance.


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Up North, I had already figured I would keep the ground wet when training them to it but never thought about the weight being a factor. So the little piglets won't get as big a zap as they will the bigger they grow. 

I have several rolls of caution tape from my contracting days and I have seen several places they talked about the wire being visual so I figured when I train them and on the pasture fence also I will tie peaces of tape to the top wire about every 3 or 4 feet so they can see it and think back to when they got zapped the first time. 
Does anyone thing this will help???

And my chickens have taught me how to relax already, LOL. I go out to feed them sometimes and just turn them loose and if nice outside I will just set down and sometimes lay down and they will climb all over me. They are better than TV sometimes. I swear they act like they are playing basket ball or football or some other game where the thing is to keep whatever they have. Throw something out to them they have to peck at to eat and the game is on. It looks like the ref dropping the hockey puck.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

crafty2002 said:


> One more question. If you would, check out this site and see if the fence chargers are worth their weight in salt. www.harborfreight.com , item # 47454-1VGA.


We have three different kinds of energizers. Less than 1.5 joules is useless. I like the 6 joule and above best. Here is the fence charger which I have found to be best of the ones I have used:

http://kencove.com/fence/Mains+Energizers_detail_EK6Z.php

I have also bought the same thing under a different brand name at Tractor Supply. Names are different but patent numbers are the same.

There are many others that work well too. Lightning eventually kills them even though I have extreme protection setup. Nothing stops a direct lightning strike on the fence wires and the copper veins in our mountains suck the storms to us. Plan on replacing a charger every year or two in addition to having maximum surge protection on both sides of the charger.

You can spend a lot more for a fencer with a lot of bells and whistles. I would suggest to instead get a good testing meter. See this:

http://sugarmtnfarm.com/blog/2007/07/calibrating-pain-fence-testing.html

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

OK now here's a question regarding fence energizers.
These Black Plastic Box fencers....repairable or ney? I recently lost had one go dead on me(Lightning?..who knows what) and I could not see any way to even open the box up to try to repair it. Is this just another product that is manufactured to intentionally be throw-away, so your only option is to go buy another new one?

Are the Parmak old style steel box models repairable?


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

I've taken them apart and repaired them as well as many other things. Often the damage is obvious. If not a multimeter can often find it. But, I'm a hacker*. I take stuff apart. I fix things.

Can you repair it? Depends on your skills and what you're willing to try. Don't get shocked. It's 10,000 volts inside that box. It is dangerous. Be careful...

Cheers,

-Walter

*My wife jokes that the sign of a Jeffries is that when they get a present they take it apart, improve it and put it back together better than ever. She says its genetic. My parents take people apart and put them back together - e.g., they're doctors. My brothers and I do machines. My sister does people repairs too. Our kids do this too. Maybe my wife is right.


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

Walter the one that died was marketed by Zareba, but it looks suspiciously identical to the K-6 model in the link to Kencove. You don't suppose they come down the assembly line and get different stickers slapped on the face of them?
I tinker and fix but my skills lean towards welding, metal fabrication,
dissassembly and reassembly of tractors and machinery.

Electrical Dummy though. Heck I thought Joule was a pretty young pop star :doh: LOL.
Maybe I'll pry it apart and see what I find. It's sitting in the tool storage shelves in my shop(er, ahem, poultry incubation area :stars.
And no, it is not plugged in!


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## RedHogs (Jul 7, 2006)

Paramark warranty is awesome, with the top end model, the warranty is a full two years, and my coop exchanges, but they do know me....Lightning protection is printed on the box, *some exclude *lightning strikes....I keep mine indoors and clean, and then ebay every 2 years....I get 70% of the purchase price and buy the latest model...That way I always have a super cadillac model of charger and never have to buy one outright...If you haven't had the multiple source line chargers or digital output models you will just kick yourself when you try. The _soft bounce_ digital circuit board chargers are throwing 14000 volts and 12-15 joules through polywire here. They some how regulate the hit according to the load so that clean fence dosn't burn up with light weight polywire.


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