# Give me privacy or give me death



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Would you want our society tracked if it made us safer?

The Tony Blair Institue said that it has “teams” advising world governments “to keep their people safe during this pandemic — not just in respect of Covid-19 itself but also the political and economic collateral damage.”

Widespread adoption of smartphones and other connected devices makes it possible to track what is happening in granular detail and in real time, as almost every action we take leaves a digital footprint. In turn this makes it possible to both get a better view of future macro scenarios and to fine-tune the current policy response down to the level of individual citizens.

Contact tracing is a monitoring process that is a central public-health response to infectious-disease outbreaks. Once a case has been identified, it involves listing all those who have come into contact with the infected person, then monitoring and following up with those people.

https://institute.global/policy/price-worth-paying-tech-privacy-and-fight-against-covid-19​


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## IlliniosGal (Jun 3, 2019)

They would get pretty bored following me back and forth around the yard mowing or in the field planting. Otherwise for the most part my phone sits on the kitchen table.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

IlliniosGal said:


> They would get pretty bored following me back and forth around the yard mowing or in the field planting. Otherwise for the most part my phone sits on the kitchen table.


Maybe some of the folks you bump into at Walmart live more exciting lives. Big brother will find out if they do


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I remember reading an article maybe a month or two ago. It was about a large number of missing cell phone accounts in China. The writers were trying to imply that maybe China had had way more mortality than they were admitting to. It was an obvious attempt at inducing hysteria. I think a more likely scenario was that people in China were wising up, and ditching their phones. If this thing becomes a thing, I will switch to burners with prepaid minutes, and ditch anything resembling a plan.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i only have my house phone. there is a cell phone somewhere in this house but i haven't seen it in years. i only had it for when i went out to my country place but i hardly go out now . i usually wait until my son goes there and he has one. ~Georgia


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

I wouldn't want any government tracking me even though I hardly go any where except around the farm and trailer. I guess its the idea of someone having or taking control of me is what I dislike. I have thought a lot about how Hitler was able to get so many Jewish people to fall in line and do what they were told leading right into the gas chambers. It is not nuclear bombs we need to fear but the mind control that convinces people to be led like sheep to slaughter. There is a proverb that says;" He who hates a gift shall live." Another proverb says;" The borrower is servant to the lender." Translated what it means if you take government handouts or loans you are owned by the lender until the debt is paid. Accepting gifts of money or anything also forms an obligation. The proverb that says "He who hates a gift will live" Simply means you aren't under obligation to reciprocate if you never accept the gift in the first place. I guess I just like being independent and living free like a free ranged chicken! The problem is how to achieve real freedom in a society that is structured on the domino effect where remove one domino and the whole structure falls! Bill and I can live off the land without money if we need too except for one problem; we have to pay property taxes or we won't have any land to live off. That is something to think about.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Alberta has come out with a voluntary tracking app and hell will freeze over long before I download it.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

I stopped regularly carrying a cellphone years ago when I realized I always kept it turned off until checking after getting home to see if anyone called me while I was driving and the two times I might have considered using one to call my tow service, someone behind me call the law because i had traffic blocked and the boys in blue called my wrecker service for me, pushed me out of traffic and waited for the wrecker.

In the years since I have only bought 2 cheap disposable flip phones to use on road trips.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

I don’t own a cell phone never have, but this iPad is likely as easily tracked.

I’m troubled by the direction some of this is taking, tracking who all we meet up with.

I think that has a lot of serious overtones.

we need a better plan than that.

Paul


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

You all have offered some thought provoking comments. I don't think I like where the world is headed.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

My independent streak starts getting twitchy when I hear tracking.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

"Give me privacy or give me death"? Man, you might as well shoot yourself in the head now if you think you can't live without privacy these days.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

No thanks. How about a mandatory vax ? Like that idea?

When I get thinking too much about this I feel like I am going to throw up.
And then I think about my nieces and nephews ages 18 years - 18 months and I feel even sicker.
Next, I resist the urge to bury my phone in the woods.
Finally, I remember fear is going to lower my immune system, so I go listen to the birds sing and breathe.

Days pass, read news, repeat.


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## IlliniosGal (Jun 3, 2019)

HDRider said:


> Maybe some of the folks you bump into at Walmart live more exciting lives. Big brother will find out if they do


I haven't shopped at Walmart or any big box store in years. I do all my shopping local, and haven't even needed to do that in the last three weeks. That trip I saw the post mistress, the guy who loaded my truck at the feed store and the cashier who brought my groceries out to my truck.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

IlliniosGal said:


> I haven't shopped at Walmart or any big box store in years. I do all my shopping local, and haven't even needed to do that in the last three weeks. That trip I saw the post mistress, the guy who loaded my truck at the feed store and the cashier who brought my groceries out to my truck.


Are you at all familiar with the use of a "metaphor"?


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

I don't know is this is pertinant to this thread, but:
One night after midnight I was driving home. I came to a live wounded deer lying in the middle of the county highway.
I called 911 for a county mounty to come shoot the deer.
I said I would stay with it until the mounty showed up.
The operator asked me where I was, It was dark and I knew there was a side road just a little way from me.
I said I didn't know the name of that road. The operator said, that's OK.. it is Evergreen road..
that's when I realized that I could be tracked by my cell phone..


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I don't know is this is pertinant to this thread, but:
> One night after midnight I was driving home. I came to a live wounded deer lying in the middle of the county highway.
> I called 911 for a county mounty to come shoot the deer.
> I said I would stay with it until the mounty showed up.
> ...


It IS pertinent 

The technology deployed right now is in its earliest stages. Stay tuned as it gets better, and deployed.. Maybe we will know, and maybe we will not.

Some say it is inevitable, some say ignore it. I am not sure what to say


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

Maybe wrap the cell phone in aluminum foil, or one of those little faraday pouches. Then, you have the phone IF you need to make a call, but can't be traced while it is in the foil/pouch. Just a thought, and no data to prove it.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

You do realize that they can track you pretty easy now either through your cell phone or if you have a smart watch with gps?


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

keenataz said:


> You do realize that they can track you pretty easy now either through your cell phone or if you have a smart watch with gps?


Don' t carry one.


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## IlliniosGal (Jun 3, 2019)

HDRider said:


> Are you at all familiar with the use of a "metaphor"?


Are you typically this rude to people who were just answering your question? As I read your post to me, I didn't read anything that could be taken as a metaphor.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

We are already tracked everywhere on every tech device we use or that stores and businesses use as well as all the surveillance and record keeping used by police, other government agencies including (income tax, property tax, building permits and licenses) financial institutions, insurance companies, employers, schools and the entire social internet.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

IlliniosGal said:


> Are you typically this rude to people who were just *answering* your question? As I read your post to me, I didn't read anything that could be taken as a metaphor.


I missed the part where you answered the actual "yes or no" question:


HDRider said:


> Would you want our society tracked if it made us safer?


I saw the "metaphor".


> HDRider said: ↑
> Maybe some of *the folks you bump into at Walmart* live more exciting lives. Big brother will find out if they do





> NOUN
> 
> a figure of speech in which a word or* phrase* is applied to an object or action to which it is *not literally applicable.*


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Don't be an idiot. Pay your taxes so "we" can develop the technology to take "care" of you.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

IlliniosGal said:


> Are you typically this rude to people who were just answering your question? As I read your post to me, I didn't read anything that could be taken as a metaphor.


I guess you are literal to a fault. 

My level of rudeness is fairly consistent, but does vary as appropriate.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

gilberte said:


> Don't be an idiot. Pay your taxes so "we" can develop the technology to take "care" of you.


I need to renegotiate my payment plan. I'd rather not have "them" take care of me.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

IlliniosGal said:


> Are you typically this rude to people who were just answering your question?


Yes


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

nchobbyfarm said:


> Yes


Don’t be so hard on yourself 

I’m sure deep down you are a nice lady.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

nchobbyfarm said:


> Yes


#2


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I need to renegotiate my payment plan. I'd rather not have "them" take care of me.


 There ain't no payment plan, pay your taxes or other taxpayers will provide lodging for you.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

gilberte said:


> There ain't no payment plan, pay your taxes or other taxpayers will provide lodging for you.


Gotta be some way outta here


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Yup. It's the other alternative.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

All phones come with 9-1-1 tracking installed and it can't be turned off. I don't know if putting the phone in a metal box would help or if you could just turn on "airplane mode" to prevent tracking.
You can contact 9-1-1 using a phone that isn't even in service, and they can still track you.

But I often have to wonder just how people think they are safe wearing their masks and gloves when they have their cell phone out and in constant use. The phone is exposed to just as many germs as their gloves and mask. How many people clean that phone when they get into the car?

All the people with Obama phones have agreed to be tracked. It was in the paperwork.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

HDRider said:


> Don’t be so hard on yourself
> 
> I’m sure deep down you are a nice lady.


Thank you for proving my point.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

nchobbyfarm said:


> Thank you for proving my point.


You get what you give.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> All phones come with 9-1-1 tracking installed and it can't be turned off. I don't know if putting the phone in a metal box would help or if you could just turn on "airplane mode" to prevent tracking.
> You can contact 9-1-1 using a phone that isn't even in service, and they can still track you.
> 
> But I often have to wonder just how people think they are safe wearing their masks and gloves when they have their cell phone out and in constant use. The phone is exposed to just as many germs as their gloves and mask. How many people clean that phone when they get into the car?
> ...


Is an Obama phone a thing or is it just a political post?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Its a thing, another freebie with strings from the government, paid for by the tax payers. Pretty sure you know about government and strings and taxpayers providing.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

HDRider said:


> I guess you are literal to a fault.
> 
> My level of rudeness is fairly consistent, but does vary as appropriate.


That it does, but especially rude to liberals


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Danaus29 said:


> All phones come with 9-1-1 tracking installed and it can't be turned off. I don't know if putting the phone in a metal box would help or if you could just turn on "airplane mode" to prevent tracking.
> You can contact 9-1-1 using a phone that isn't even in service, and they can still track you.
> 
> But I often have to wonder just how people think they are safe wearing their masks and gloves when they have their cell phone out and in constant use. The phone is exposed to just as many germs as their gloves and mask. How many people clean that phone when they get into the car?
> ...


Are they now getting Trump phones?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> Gotta be some way outta here


There's too much confusion.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Redlands Okie said:


> Its a thing, another freebie with strings from the government, paid for by the tax payers. Pretty sure you know about government and strings and taxpayers providing.


As a taxpayer since I was 14 I do know about those things.
I never got anything. I even paid off my student loans.
I did not work for the govt in any form.
Did you ever get anything from the govt?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Would you stay home instead of giving out your personal info?

Germany is requiring people going to restaurants to provide personal info and phone numbers to enter.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

painterswife said:


> Would you stay home instead of giving out your personal info?
> 
> *Germany is requiring people going to restaurants to provide personal info and phone numbers to enter.*


Now there is a bastion of individual liberty to model things after. That won't work here like many things that have worked elsewhere, at least not yet and I hope not in my lifetime or my children's or ..... forever.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Would you stay home instead of giving out your personal info?
> 
> Germany is requiring people going to restaurants to provide personal info and phone numbers to enter.


Germany. There is a country with a long history of civil rights and personal liberty.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Obama phones are the free phones given to people who qualify for certain federal assistance programs. They were part of the Obamacare act. You can find all the info about them by googling Obama phone.
https://www.obamaphone.com/
All you who questioned it are well aware of the program. It was beat to death back when the Affordable Care Act, aka ObamaCare was being created.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I wonder why tracking technology is not used for rapists and pedophiles?


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

The book “1984” comes to mind.

Paul


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

There is no privacy now and until the majority stands up and demands change the invasion will continue. I doubt this will ever happen as people would have to give up most if not all social media. And businesses would lobby to prevent this as well. Particularly insurance companies, medical insurance companies, and financial institutions. Even employers.

INSUR.com

The right to privacy is one of the bedrocks of the American value system -- but when it comes to your medical records, there are questions about how far that privacy really extends. If you've ever wondered who has access to your medical records, you're not alone.

The confidentiality of your medical records depends on the people who handle them. Insurance companies use medical information to underwrite policies. Not only does your insurance company share information about your health with other insurers, they receive this information directly from your doctor and other sources.

Insurance companies use "underwriting standards" to determine whether they will issue the policy the customer requests and what the price will be. When underwriting a policy, life insurance companies factor in your age, height, weight, personal medical history, family medical history and whether you smoke. Underwriting standards for members of a group (such as group life insurance purchased through work) are less stringent than for someone who wants to buy an individual policy, but there is still an underwriting process. According to the National Association of Health Underwriters, large health insurance policies are medically underwritten, but only at the time of purchase. Rates are generally based on prior claims experience.

*The MIB*
If you have applied for an individual life, health, disability, long-term care or critical illness insurance policy in the past seven years with an MIB Group, Inc. member, and you have a medical condition severe enough to impact your health or longevity, your information (stored as codes, not "medical files") may be in a database at MIB (formerly named the Medical Information Bureau). MIB provides medical information to its nearly 475 member life and health insurance companies -- information taken from individuals' insurance applications. Member companies report information to the MIB.

Insurance companies pay a fee to become members of the MIB, and they also pay a fee every time they request information from the company's database. You will be notified when you apply that the insurance company plans to check the MIB for any record of you, but that notification may be buried in fine print of the authorization you sign. Ask an agent when you fill out the application if pre-existing medical conditions might raise your rates or nix your application altogether.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

keenataz said:


> You do realize that they can track you pretty easy now either through your cell phone or if you have a smart watch with gps?





emdeengee said:


> We are already tracked everywhere on every tech device we use or that stores and businesses use as well as all the surveillance and record keeping used by police, other government agencies including (income tax, property tax, building permits and licenses) financial institutions, insurance companies, employers, schools and the entire social internet.


I don't have a cell phone (the closest of which is 7 miles from my place) or even a land line and my watch is a 100+ year old pocket watch so I think I'm safe there. My motor vehicles are both pre-1975... so no electronics to be tracked there either. The only electronic item I have is this old laptop and it is only used on free public wifi and there is absolutely no signal near my property.

My mailing address is a P.O. box and my delivery address is at a general store that accepts packages for me. They gave me a 911 "street" address several years ago but it doesn't actually mean anything because the 5 mile "road" leading to my place is really just a old dirt track/logging road from the late 1800's. When there's any substantial rain it's to muddy to get most any vehicle back here and the water is too deep at at least 3 of the 5 creek fords. In the winter, if there's any snow or ice (which there usually is) you are seriously taking your life into your own hands to get over the ridge and down into my holler (hollow for you city folk  ).

There's no income tax because I have no "taxable" income. The property tax people have surveys (very old) and property descriptions for the various and sundry tracts that make up my property... my favorite starts out "from the old forked oak tree at the southeast corner of Old John ******'s place". I didn't need/use building permits.

As I've said before... few know I'm here... less know how to get to me... and only a couple are willing to try. I feel pretty secure with my privacy.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Sounds like something to enjoy and appreciate.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

They would have had fun trying to track me the other day. Left my phone in the vehicle that hubby took to work. He turned it off and locked it up for me. 
Although both my mom and son got worried that I wasn't answering my phone.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I don't know is this is pertinant to this thread, but:
> One night after midnight I was driving home. I came to a live wounded deer lying in the middle of the county highway.
> I called 911 for a county mounty to come shoot the deer.
> I said I would stay with it until the mounty showed up.
> ...


I know they can pinpoint you from your cell phone call it does have some compatibility issues, here anyway.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I had the same experience when calling in a road kill.


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## Robotron (Mar 25, 2012)

As I read through this thread I find it amusing that people who worry about being tracked are sitting here complaining about it. But yet are using the very technology that does the tracking. Short of having nothing around, you are tracked. Even then if you show up in town with nothing somewhere you are recorded. Whether you use the technology or not.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

They don't even need your cell phone. I called in something to the cops for my boss from work. He asked my name and when I told him he asked if I lived at "my address". It is all there at their fingertips.

You provide more than you know every time you touch a keyboard or use a credit card. If you have a mortgage on your property it is in the online files for your county. If your relative joined a DNA registry your DNA can be found. Hiding is pretty useless these days.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Robotron said:


> As I read through this thread I find it amusing that people who worry about being tracked are sitting here complaining about it. But yet are using the very technology that does the tracking. Short of having nothing around, you are tracked. Even then if you show up in town with nothing somewhere you are recorded. Whether you use the technology or not.


My IP address show me across the state.

Doing something that you know is tracked is one thing, being forced to be tracked, or being tracked covertly is something else.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> They don't even need your cell phone. I called in something to the cops for my boss from work. He asked my name and when I told him he asked if I lived at "my address". It is all there at their fingertips.
> 
> You provide more than you know every time you touch a keyboard or use a credit card. If you have a mortgage on your property it is in the online files for your county. If your relative joined a DNA registry your DNA can be found. Hiding is pretty useless these days.


Tracking your person is different than what you describe.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

homesteadforty said:


> I don't have a cell phone (the closest of which is 7 miles from my place) or even a land line and my watch is a 100+ year old pocket watch so I think I'm safe there. My motor vehicles are both pre-1975... so no electronics to be tracked there either. The only electronic item I have is this old laptop and it is only used on free public wifi and there is absolutely no signal near my property.
> 
> My mailing address is a P.O. box and my delivery address is at a general store that accepts packages for me. They gave me a 911 "street" address several years ago but it doesn't actually mean anything because the 5 mile "road" leading to my place is really just a old dirt track/logging road from the late 1800's. When there's any substantial rain it's to muddy to get most any vehicle back here and the water is too deep at at least 3 of the 5 creek fords. In the winter, if there's any snow or ice (which there usually is) you are seriously taking your life into your own hands to get over the ridge and down into my holler (hollow for you city folk  ).
> 
> ...


You do seem very isolated but you are still being tracked. Cameras everywhere. Information passed around. Whether or not "they" could find you is probably in your favour. I had a boss who was an expert at avoiding any paper trail but even he could not escape notice.


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## Robotron (Mar 25, 2012)

Your about 100 years late if you expect to live life without being tracked. Even then they tracked you, it just took longer.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

We are not tracked today in real time, and full time. 

We might be someday.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

If you live in an area with traffic cameras, you are seen and your actions recorded. If you pass a police car, your license is scanned by a plate reader system. You, as an individual, may not be tracked, but if they want you they will find you.
Unless you are on America's top 10 wanted list.

But to be tracked, as an individual, and your movements logged and followed is just a bit uncomfortable to most people.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

emdeengee said:


> You do seem very isolated but you are still being tracked. Cameras everywhere. Information passed around. Whether or not "they" could find you...





Danaus29 said:


> If you live in an area with traffic cameras, you are seen and your actions recorded. If you pass a police car, your license is scanned by a plate reader system. You, as an individual, may not be tracked, but if they want you they will find you...
> 
> But to be tracked, as an individual, and your movements logged and followed is just a bit uncomfortable to most people.


The _"they"_ in my case is people in general. The local Game Wardens, Sheriffs Deputy's and State Police know how to get in touch with me because I help them occasionally with my dogs. I don't particularly avoid cameras... I'm just generally not around where there is one. "Neighbors" don't have any and don't believe in them... folks around here are pretty private. There's not a traffic camera (or traffic signal) within 25 miles until you get into "town".

I typically only go into the local "village" once a month or so (more often now while the kids and grands are staying with me for a while) and into town once a year and typically drive a motor vehicle less that 100 miles a year.

I don't tend to blend into a crowd easily... I'm 6'6" tall, weigh 250 lbs. and have a beard and hair (mostly white) down to my waist. To top it off I do almost all my local travel in a horse drawn buggy or farm wagon (even around here that's not usual).


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

It is quite probable that companies will continue to allow many of their employees to work from home after the pandemic is under control. They are finding out that this is a very economical way to do business. Of course this will mean a lot of smaller offices and thus more empty commercial space. And it will also have an effect on earnings for public transportation and parking and restaurants and shops close to business sectors. 

It also brings into question how bosses will watch the productivity of those working from home. There are already software programs that can track every key stroke, time spent and even an employees eye movements. So far the only control seems to be that the employee must agree to this surveillance. But if you refuse your boss has the right to lay you off as you will not be conforming to the new work standard for his business.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I've worked with people who couldn't be bothered enough to do their job when the boss was right there in the room with them. Do you think they would do any work when home without any supervision?


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

"Would you want our society tracked if it made us safer?"

No. If I wanted the Government and dictators survaling me I would move to a socialist state.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> "Would you want our society tracked if it made us safer?"
> 
> No. If I wanted the Government and dictators survaling me I would move to a socialist state.


I have to ask, is your chicken ranch similar to the one in La Grange


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Danaus29 said:


> I've worked with people who couldn't be bothered enough to do their job when the boss was right there in the room with them. Do you think they would do any work when home without any supervision?


The boss you describe is not worthy of his/her position. Not only does it hurt the business but the other employees. Any boss I ever had knew how to hire and knew their workers. Those who did not do their job did not last long. I did not say that there should not be supervision. That is the boss' job as well as overseeing the work. If you can work from home and are not producing then they will know.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

HDRider said:


> I have to ask, is your chicken ranch similar to the one in La Grange


No, Y? Not that lucky. My chickens on the other hand have a pretty good life (until we eat them).


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

They may be able to spy on me and track me but they can not control me. I will never give in to Microsoft and their bullying. They have now said that two spaces between sentences is too many and the software will now show this as an error. The blue squiggly line. Apparently I am out of "style". They should see my jeans.


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

HDRider said:


> Would you want our society tracked if it made us safer?
> 
> https://institute.global/policy/price-worth-paying-tech-privacy-and-fight-against-covid-19​


NO.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

emdeengee said:


> The boss you describe is not worthy of his/her position. Not only does it hurt the business but the other employees. Any boss I ever had knew how to hire and knew their workers. Those who did not do their job did not last long. I did not say that there should not be supervision. That is the boss' job as well as overseeing the work. If you can work from home and are not producing then they will know.


The person was fired after 2 days on the job. Complicated situation, the boss on site did not hire and could not fire temps. They could fire company people. 

People I know who do work from home are required to punch in on their computer. The computer is owned by the employer and is linked to the company oversight program. The people I know who work that way are informed their usage is tracked and the agree to work under those conditions. Not much different than being on the computer at the job site. 
BUT working from home on a company computer is very different than your private movements being tracked through your personal cell phone.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> The person was fired after 2 days on the job. Complicated situation, the boss on site *did not hire and could not fire temps*. They could fire company people.



That is just so foreign to me. I would not work for a company where I didn't have control of the people under me. And if my boss don't have my back I will only have his/hers for 2 weeks more. Then I walk after I give notice. I was looking for a job when I found the one I got now. I can look again. 

Don't you just hate pencil pushers who have never been in the field? 

I had a guy show up once. The first thing he said was "I eat dinner with the owner every Saturday." After 2 weeks I fired him for being so lazy I caught him sleeping in the mechanical room where he thought no one would find him. The owner called me the next day and asked me why I fired him. 

I was livid but still reserved.

So I told him why. He said "Well some times we hire people for "political" reasons." I asked him was this one political or not? He said "No. I have been waiting for someone with enough balls to fire this guy for years now." 

I quit anyway. If the owner don't have the balls then I don't need to work for him either.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The first temp agency I worked with did have their hiring personnel working in the field. They came in and learned the jobs so they could properly train new hires. The second (same job, just different temp service) temp service never had their people work the job, never stayed on site, never bothered to learn how to train new hires, did not even tell them that cell phones were forbidden and you could not open mail left in mail trays.

The best the company bosses could do was report the temp to the temp agency. In reality, the temps were not company employees. The company could report them them but the temp agency had to fire them.

There were a lot of people who took advantage of the situation.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> The first temp agency I worked with did have their hiring personnel working in the field. They came in and learned the jobs so they could properly train new hires. The second (same job, just different temp service) temp service never had their people work the job, never stayed on site, never bothered to learn how to train new hires, did not even tell them that cell phones were forbidden and you could not open mail left in mail trays.
> 
> The best the company bosses could do was report the temp to the temp agency. In reality, the temps were not company employees. The company could report them them but the temp agency had to fire them.
> 
> There were a lot of people who took advantage of the situation.


I guess that happens. Not on my jobs though. That is crazy to me. When I hire temps I call them direct and tell them what I need and what I will tolerate. Most never seem to get it though. The last time I needed temps the first batch was not bad except for a guy I went to high school with and even walked down the aisle at graduation with. He thought he was a shoe in. I fired him before the day was over for playing on his phone plus other stuff.


I guess I look at it like this. I have to give the best value to my client. That is what I am paid to do. Hiring substandard/cheap labor is exactly what the competition does. That is why I am still working today. It's why I am recruited a lot. Those guys give the rest a bad name. If you were paying me, you would expect no less.


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

I was with a friend last year or so and came upon a brush fire that jumped the road. So I used my cell phone to call 911. We didn't know our exact location and the operator asked me to wait a minute and came back and told me where we were! What I want to know is; can a cell phone be tracked when it is shut off or does it have to be on?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

lmrose said:


> I was with a friend last year or so and came upon a brush fire that jumped the road. So I used my cell phone to call 911. We didn't know our exact location and the operator asked me to wait a minute and came back and told me where we were! What I want to know is; can a cell phone be tracked when it is shut off or does it have to be on?


According to a report from Washington Post, NSA is capable of tracking cell phones even when they are turned off. And this isn’t anything new. As per the report, NSA has been using this technique, dubbed “The Find”, ever since September 2004. This technique was used in Iraq, and it helped identify “thousands of new targets, including members of a burgeoning al-Qaeda-sponsored insurgency in Iraq,” according to a special operation officer who was interviewed by Post.

The Washington Post story doesn’t throw light on this. But the only way NSA could track switched off phones must be by infecting the handsets with *Trojans*. That would force the handsets to continue emitting a signal even if the phone is in standby mode unless the battery is removed. When the battery is removed, the compromised handset will not have a power source to emit the signals, and hence would fail to share its location details.

https://techpp.com/2013/08/22/track-phone-turned-off/


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

HDRider; I just got back on line and saw your reply. Thankyou for the information. So it appears if we want the convenience of a cell phone the only way it can't be tracked is when the battery is removed! This is good to know. Years ago we just had a land line. Then we went through a long stretch of years that we couldn't afford a phone or vehicle for 17 years. It was hard but we made it through those times. I would make a list of places I needed to call like Dr. appts, insurance etc. and when I could get to town I would take my bag full of quarters and find an out of the way pay phone and make my phone calls. Then later pay phones were removed in town except two at the hospital and two at the YMCA and one at a grocery store. All were in opposite ends of town. So eventually we decided to try a land line again when finances were better. Then we moved to our present home and decided to go with cell phones since we aren't here part of the year to answer the phone. Cell works whether here or at the farm camping. Although it doesn't always work perfectly and has trouble picking up a signal among hills at the farm. We each have a phone; the cheapest possible which is a flip phone with nothing but calling and receiving calls but free long distance across Canada. Being my husband has health issues it is important we can reach each other when apart or he can call 911 if needed. The two phones cost $63.09 a month with the tax. Someone told me you can buy disposable phones ? Can they be tracked too? Is there any other kind of phone independent of a telephone company? I want to get away from monthly bills.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

TracPhone, in the US, used to offer a minute plan. You pay for a certain number of minutes to be used within a certain time frame. You can buy up to 6 months of service but IIRC it costs about $100, US. They give you a limited number of text and a certain amount of data too. Everything rolls over if you buy another card before the end of the service term.

I don't know how it works in Canada but in the US you can get the phones and cards from most grocery stores and Walmart. There are many companies that have cheap phones and cards available.


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

Thanks Danaus for the information. I never heard of TracPhones here but will look into this. I just need an emergency phone to keep track of Bill when we are apart. His cell we will keep as he talks to his friends a lot. I don't talk on the phone if I can help it. Guess I am not very sociable. Our bill will drop by half with only his cell. Have a nice day.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

removing the battery on an iPhone is nearly impossible. wasn't always like that. I noticed when it became that way, and knew it had a fishy smell.

Also noticed when the pay phones all disappeared. also seemed unnecessary.


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