# Building multiple structures on property?



## oracle (Jul 21, 2011)

I know if you keep your home under a certain size, 250 sq/ft generally speaking, you will not need a building permit. Would building, say, 2-3 separate living structures all under the specified size allowed, be ok without a permit? 

I was thinking, in order to not need a permit one could somehow work around the system, and connect or even keep the structures separated.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Welcome
Depends on where you live. You should be able to get on the puter and your local govt should be online and let you know what you can do.

Where I live we have no building permits


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Here, a structure under 200 s.f. doesn't require a building permit, but there has to be a 'real' house on the property first. The small building can't be the only building on the property. It just depends on the area your land is in, what the rules are going to be. If you don't have land yet, make sure you check on things like this before you buy, or you may be disappointed.

Kathleen


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## oracle (Jul 21, 2011)

BlueJuniperFarm said:


> Here, a structure under 200 s.f. doesn't require a building permit, but there has to be a 'real' house on the property first. The small building can't be the only building on the property. It just depends on the area your land is in, what the rules are going to be. If you don't have land yet, make sure you check on things like this before you buy, or you may be disappointed.
> 
> Kathleen


Thank you


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

Where I built my cabin it is less than 480 SQ FT to built without a permit. It varies by borough up here.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I like the seperate small cheap to build shed type housing. Seperate living, sleeping, bath/kitchen area. Many built this way in tropical areas, could be connected with breezeways later....James


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I have to get a variance to put up a beehive. Mom wouldn't need a permit to build a 20 x 50 ft barn.


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

Depending on local regulations, you may not even be able to live in a building smaller than a certain size. You could build the structure without a permit, but you couldn't legally use it as a domicile.

I like the concept of several smaller structures forming a "compound". It's less expensive to build and maintain and operate a smaller continually condition space -- the main living cabin -- and erect simpler distributed structures for specific tasks as needed, with their own "on demand" heating/cooling only when in use. Lots of task spaces don't need to be as structurally sound, insulated, or conditioned as a domicile so it doesn't make material sense to put them together on the same foundation under the same roof.

On our homestead plan we have several sheds for various dedicated uses (i.e we don't store firewood and fuel in the same shed, and neither in with the food stores!), a garage, workshop, barn/animal shelters, the privy, the wash house (bath & laundry), an abattoir/meat house, a root cellar, an outdoor kitchen (wood-fired grill, smokehouse, earth oven), a power shack (cuz we're off-grid), a pump house (cuz we're on a well), and a greenhouse. Imagine how big that foundation and roof would be and how high our heating costs would be if that were all in the same building (or even a couple of larger buildings)-- yikes!!

In a more temperate climate, a central communal space with individual living and working spaces offers privacy, extensibility and flexibility.


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## oracle (Jul 21, 2011)

jwal10 said:


> I like the seperate small cheap to build shed type housing. Seperate living, sleeping, bath/kitchen area. Many built this way in tropical areas, could be connected with breezeways later....James





PlicketyCat said:


> I like the concept of several smaller structures forming a "compound". It's less expensive to build and maintain and operate a smaller continually condition space -- the main living cabin -- and erect simpler distributed structures for specific tasks as needed, with their own "on demand" heating/cooling only when in use. Lots of task spaces don't need to be as structurally sound, insulated, or conditioned as a domicile so it doesn't make material sense to put them together on the same foundation under the same roof.
> 
> 
> In a more temperate climate, a central communal space with individual living and working spaces offers privacy, extensibility and flexibility.


Ya I was thinking something like breeze ways or just make a center area with 3 or 4 buildings surrounding the center point.

1 building would be to sleep, another for food, cooking, and a pantry.
Another building as a tool shop or study area.

I just thought it would save money doing like this, _IF_, county, state allows you to build a structure with out a permit, of a specific size.


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## oracle (Jul 21, 2011)

Ya, I would think it would be cheaper if you didn't need to purchase a permit and build separate structures.

Sleeping area, kitchen, workshop, study, etc.


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

Roof and foundation are the highest on a normal dwelling. If you add in the extra siding, windows, doors etc....., it may save you money to get a permit.


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

In my experience, the construction permit isn't the expensive one... it's the mechanical, plumbing and electrical reviews, permits and inspections that can really rack up to $$$$ if the charges aren't flat rate. If you study your local regs, codes and ordinances carefully you can normally spot the high ticket items and minimize their impacts by designing very simple systems with minimal deviance from conventional methods. 

For example, keeping all your plumbing on one wet wall with the kitchen/laundry backing the bathroom with the water heater in it so that all your inlets, vents and soil pipes are short and simple... all electrical on that wall above any water line, etc. Don't have garbage disposals or dishwashers. Put any vented appliance as close to an outside wall as possible or vent them straight up through the roof with no bends (i.e. the dryer, the flue for a gas water heater, exhaust fans, etc). HVAC systems are a nightmare for permits and inspections... if you pay for no other pro service, really consider paying an engineer to review your HVAC plans and optimize it before you take them to the permit office.

But, in any case, really consider the structural needs of the different utility spaces you want. Does that space even need a hefty foundation and a fully framed floor? Would it be just as effective with post footing and a dirt/gravel floor? Does that space really need to be conditioned all year round? Will you really use it every day? In every season? If you can't justify putting something on a solid foundation under a solid roof with daily conditioning, don't attach it to your house unless you absolutely have to for some freaky zoning or code reason. While adding 100 sq ft to your foundation and roof cost be less than erecting the same 100 sq ft separately with the same level of foundation and roof construction, if you really don't need that level of construction why waste the resources at all... go with something detached that's simpler, built as you need it.


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

"Generally speaking" if'n you built 2 or more buildings (250sq/ft ea) without a permit by joining them via a roof or sheltered walkway wouldn't you now have a building 500 sq/ft (or more) and then require a permit???????? 
Around here if'n they (codes enforcer) see that you are trying to "game" the local system you are watched closer then if'n you just got the permit; and if you're off by just an inch........... what was built *will* come down and fines are leveed.


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

Yep, connecting the buildings with any kind of covered or enclosed walkway (especially if it's tied into the roof line) is considered an addition in most jurisdictions and subject to any permit requirements mandated by the increase footprint... regardless of whether it's new construction or not. We nearly got tagged with this when we were considering roofing over the walkway from our detached garage and house in the old house, even though both were the same age and we didn't build them... just wanted a covered walkway.

Same goes for extending any of your main service lines to detached structures. Want electric or water in that workshop? Need a permit. Want an NG wall heater in that backyard home office? Need a permit.

Some places aren't that strict... but more of them are, and it's getting worse every year. It might all be in the interest of public safety, but anytime you walk into the permit office, it's "F-you, pay me"... and Lord help you if you're walking into the permit office because they caught you doing something you shouldn't have been, then it's "F-you, pay me, twice, and we're going to ride your backside the whole time just for kicks". And then the Tax Man shows up with an astronomical assessment because you've made improvements.... sigh.

(can you tell I've had some really horrible experiences with the permit folks? Yeah, but I'm not bitter about it or anything though  )


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

We're starting a barn on our property in SC, and the permit (including plumbing) was only $80 for 1350 sq ft. In other areas of the country, it could be thousands. So much depends upon your local rules.


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

MushCreek said:


> We're starting a barn on our property in SC, and the permit (including plumbing) was only $80 for 1350 sq ft. In other areas of the country, it could be thousands. So much depends upon your local rules.


Amazing how some imaginary line on a map can have such a huge impact isn't it!? Between the HOAs, city/township, county/borough, state and federal rules there's just soooo much to investigate before you buy land you want to build on!


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## oracle (Jul 21, 2011)

PlicketyCat said:


> Yep, connecting the buildings with any kind of covered or enclosed walkway (especially if it's tied into the roof line) is considered an addition in most jurisdictions and subject to any permit requirements mandated by the increase footprint... regardless of whether it's new construction or not. We nearly got tagged with this when we were considering roofing over the walkway from our detached garage and house in the old house, even though both were the same age and we didn't build them... just wanted a covered walkway.
> 
> Same goes for extending any of your main service lines to detached structures. Want electric or water in that workshop? Need a permit. Want an NG wall heater in that backyard home office? Need a permit.
> 
> ...


Ya thanks. There is a lot to consider, and a lot of research to do. Especially being brand new to all this. I have much to still research. I have seen someone try to put in a window without a permit, they got caught and had to pay the permit, so I know how it is sometimes.

Everyone made some good points and things to look out for. Its good to see what others experiences are so I can take this all into consideration.


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