# 30.5 lbs for 6-7 month old Nubian does?



## farm mom (Oct 10, 2006)

We acquired two Nubian does this morning. One is seven months old and the other is six months old and both weigh 30.5 lbs. Does that seem awfully small? It has been a couple of years since I have had goats and they were Saanens but when I bought them at four months they seemed bigger than they are. The hay they were feeding didn't look very good but I do have paperwork to confirm their birthdate and breeding. We are giving them lots of food but just wondering if they seemed small to the rest of you. Oh, BTW, they are about 21 inches tall for the 7 month old and 20 inches for 6 month old. Thanks!


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## deafgoatlady (Sep 5, 2007)

Welll.. It looks like it is small to me.. Well I dont know too much about saanen... I had two nubian goats.. It was awful!!! One doeling was 4 months old and she weight 11 lbs. Who knows why!! And her half brother was 17 lbs when he was 4 months old. It was crazy. I dont know why.. I fed them and everything.. Oh well..


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## yarrow (Apr 27, 2004)

I wormed two six month old nubian does this morning (so I just happen to know their weights LOL) Sylvia was 63, Molly was 68 - Molly just turned six months, Syliva will be in two more weeks. They are about avg to a little small for my usual six monthers (late spring babies don't grow off as well for me) My jan/feb does were all weighing a bit over 70lbs or so by six months.
susie, mo ozarks


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## HazyDay (Feb 20, 2007)

Thats about half of what they should weigh! Wormed them every 2 weeks for a little bit. Give them a 16% dairy and put it to them (slowly!) and add beet pulp to their feed (or BOSS) Make sure they have a *GOAT* Mineral, (NOT HARD. A POWDER.) Good pasture with trees and other stuff. Baking soda. 

If you follow all those things they should grow like weeds. 

A good weight for them at these ages should be 70-80 pounds. (guess brith weight, 10 pounds is good. Then 10 pounds every month! So they should be like this! 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 = 70 pounds! )


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Sound like cocci victims. 

They ought to be around 60 lbs. I believe Vickie's formula is 10 lbs per month, plus birthweight. Obviously some will grow slower or faster, but not that much slower. I believe cocci can cause permanent damage to the intestines, making it had to them to gain even with good food.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Here's info on cocci

http://www.fiascofarm.com/goats/coccidiosis.htm


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Yes and sadly they may never grow to their potential. Hind site and all, but I always tell new folks to go buy goats with a weigh tape around your neck. Tape the goats...if they are 3 months old than 38 pounds...4 months old 48 and so on. You can cut some slack on high multiple kids...triplets out of young first fresheners, quads or quints, but they should at least be close. This is a minimal weight gain and still won't give you the 90 to 100 pounds you want to breed them the first year and not have summer kids. So these kids will be expensive, in that you now will have maybe kids and milk by next December.

You will want to use different management on your kids when born so you can get them to miking earlier and in better size...it's too expensive to keep dry yearlings.

Worm, cocci treat, trim their feet, good food, good hay, don't rush them on too much grain too quickly. Vicki


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

Yannow, it depends on the bloodline. That's about the size of two wethers I was given several years ago, who were six months old at the time. I could literally pick them up and carry them around under my arm -- they were smaller than my Australian Shepherd.

They didn't stop growing until they were four but grew very slowly. In fact, when I got six month old alpine bucklings a year later, the bucklings weighed more than the nubians who were a year older. Today, they're both over 200 pounds. I looked at them one day and wondered when they'd gotten so big ... 

The alpines hit full size at two years and basically stopped. 

Just genetics. :shrug:


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## fcnubian (Sep 7, 2006)

It could be just the genetics...

I do have a wether that is 9 months that taped (a month or so ago) 57lbs. He was a victim of cocci. If they had coccidia that may be part of their reason for not growing well.

Could be that they didn't have proper nutrition.

Could be many things. Have a fecal done and make sure they aren't wormy. Also try to find out from their other owners if they have ever had cocci.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

I have a yearling doe who, at five months old, taped at eighty pounds. She's 3/4 Oberhasli, 3/16 Boer, and 1/16 Togg. Her brothers were about the same weight at that age. I'd say your little does are way too small -- and cocci, as already mentioned, could well be the culprit. Don't know if they'll ever catch up, if that's the case, as it seems to permanently stunt them. You certainly won't be able to breed them this year, though. They are way too small.

Did you have any kind of guarantee from the purchaser? 

Kathleen


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## farm mom (Oct 10, 2006)

I'm have contacted the purchaser to discuss the situation with her. I don't know much about cocci, will they get to the point to be breedable and milkable at some point? How much does it stunt their growth (if anyone knows). Should I be treating them for cocci now or is it too late? Because they will always be smaller and possibly have more permanent damage should they just be pets and not bred? Is it contagious? I'll do some research on the internet about this as well. Thanks everyone.

Tiffany


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

It's only contagious in that it's everywhere and in all soils and all animals. A deep hard freeze will kill it in the pasture, but most folks overwinter cocci and worms in their goats and bedding.

I would have a fecal done, it's like $10 at any vet, even a cat and dog vet can do livestock fecals. Just in a zip lock baggy pick up 7 to 10 nanny berries from each kid. This will tell you what you have, then treat accordingly. Are any of us near you that you can just get help from us?

Sure they will grow, and yes they can kid and be milked. If they are stunted from illness, they will forever be hothouse flowers, lots of poop problems, everything will cause them to have diarrhea, change of feed, change of hay, kidding, spring, being in heat. Unless the genetics are dwarf, spanish, there simply is no excuse for this small of nubian. Sorry this has happened to you, wish you would have found all of us before you got them. Vicki


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## goatkid (Nov 20, 2005)

Those kids are small for Nubians that age. I just weight taped three of mine this morning. The early March doeling weighs 82 lb. The two end of April doelings weigh 68 and 72 lb. I bought two Nubians this year who are 2 year old first fresheners. They were raised with more aggressive breeds of goats and were not consistantly fed grain when they were kids. They are smaller than the two year olds raised here from birth, but have excellent bloodlines and good conformation. I have already seen some growth on them with my management.


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## farm mom (Oct 10, 2006)

Thanks everyone! Wish I had known about this before I got them. Cute little buggers but not sure what to do with them now. I knew about cocci but thought you either treated it as young kids, if showing symptoms (which except for small size these gals don't seem to so far) and they recovered or they died if not treated. Didn't know there was any in between. SIGH!! I have e-mailed the lady I brought from but don't know if she will be any help. I will take a sample in to the vet this week and see what that brings up. I guess I could just keep them for little pets but if they are going to be chronic problems I just don't know. I guess I will see how they respond in the next few days to the new enviroment and feed I have here and see if the diarrhea starts up.


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

Could be cocci?

But I know my elderly Nubian (I don't know her history, but she always has loose poop so maybe she is a cocci kid as well) had twins this last Spring. Tiniest babies I've ever seen. TINY. Maybe 3# each (I didn't weigh, but they were all spindly legs and TINY bodies). In fact, by July (3+ months old) the doeling was still too tiny to show at the county fair. Now? She's about where she should be and growing nicely. In fact, the goat superintendent remarked at how nice she looked and how big compared to what she was in July. 

I guess her mama, Agatha the spotted doe, at 14. Maybe yours were born to a cocci mom and an OLD mom? AND this doeling was the lesser of the twins Agatha had. Did you get the "runts?" 

Maybe several things: genetics, older cocci mom, not enough intervention at a young age, runt, etc...

Good luck and check back with their progress in 6-8 months!


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

Oh! And my OTHER old Nubian doe (10 years old) CANNOT TOLERATE MOLASSES FEED. Gives her scouring diarhea almost immediately. Like WATER out of her. I don't know exactly why? But she can't tolerate it. Soooooo, I would suggest only feeding pellet (the goats don't NEED that pretty molasses anyway - it's for OUR eyes)...

Good luck!


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

farm mom said:


> Thanks everyone! Wish I had known about this before I got them. Cute little buggers but not sure what to do with them now. I knew about cocci but thought you either treated it as young kids, if showing symptoms (which except for small size these gals don't seem to so far) and they recovered or they died if not treated. Didn't know there was any in between. SIGH!! I have e-mailed the lady I brought from but don't know if she will be any help. I will take a sample in to the vet this week and see what that brings up. I guess I could just keep them for little pets but if they are going to be chronic problems I just don't know. I guess I will see how they respond in the next few days to the new enviroment and feed I have here and see if the diarrhea starts up.



i did buy a little doe last year as well. she was 1 1/2 years old and just had a lttle bit over 80#. breeder sad, she is from slow maturing line  since then she gained about 30# and i have no clue if there is more to come. i bought this doe only for her bloodlines. she is the most beautiful and feminine doe on my farm but she will never milk to her genetic potential. although she is very petite, her son grew very nicely. born in april, he has almost 100#. she is here to stay and add some nice things to my herd.
if you sit back now and think about why you bought those two kids in the first place, can you come up with a good reason to hold on to them? is it worth your time and energy to hold onto them? if not, bring them back.


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

i had a tiny little doe born this may, sister to two big boys  
she had just 3#,and this was the first time i had just a tiny kid. she has now 72#(bath scale, poor hubby) and is coming after her dam in size.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

You said they hay they were eating didn't look good. Could it be that the previous owner was just giving them a poor diet?

What did the rest of her goats look like?

In my fish I see a huge variation in growth dependent on food supply. I have fish that are 1 1/2" and fish that are 7" (50 times heavier) that were from the same spawn. Both are healthy and both will reach the same final weight if I provide enough food. I would imagine that goats are no different but not so extreme.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Cold blooded animals are a bit different I think. For example snakes, they never stop growing, just slow. Their growth is in direct correlation to what they are able to find to eat (and their age). I think fish and thing take advantage of availability of food to grow fast and slow up when it can't be found. Whereas mammals more have a certain set way they should grow and try to find food to fit that, there is some flexibility, but it's not the same as cold blooded animals from what I know.


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## Jim S. (Apr 22, 2004)

There's another factor, and that's the nutritional plain of the mother while gestating. In warm-blooded animals, poor maternal nutrition almost invariably leads to smaller offspring throughout their lives. Generally, I have found that small kids become smaller adults.

Also, I am not a proponent of "feeding them up," as it usually does not overcome poor maternal nutrition and genetic factors. You can add weight by pouring the feed to them, but not growth. As a general rule for market kids, the additonal weight gain and the shorter time to reach it does not overcome the added cost of the feed, no matter what some university types would like you to believe.


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## farm mom (Oct 10, 2006)

I don't want to deal with these goats. I would like to take them back to the previous owner. All there goats were very small except for a boer they had just purchased. This is one of the main reasons I purchased is because they all looked under fed. The hay they were feeding was more straw looking than green hay. All the goats were gathered around this big pile (which I am wondering if he put out right before we came). Yesterday they didn't stop eating the whole day. But today they do have the diarrhea. Is it cocci, change in feed??? I am going to get a stool sample and take to the vet today. That will arm me a bit better with information to talk to the owner with. I'll update later when I know more. Thanks all!


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## farm mom (Oct 10, 2006)

Oh, and if the owner won't take them back then what? Not sure if I have the heart to cull them here on the farm. We have done it in the past with other animals but these girls are so darn sweet and cute. However, I can't imagine anyone else would want them, especially when there are free ones in the paper all the time. Grrr......Suppose I could just keep them for pets.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Livestock as pets are expensive.

The diarrhea is usually from a huge change of feed and worms activated from the stress of the move.

The cocci I am talking about was what stunted them and now has ruined their intestinal lining, so even with everything in front of them they want to eat, they won't grow because their intestinal lining sloughed off with the cocci they had as young goatlings.


Giving your hard earned money to folks who starve goats, bloodline or not is simply wrong. Lets them think that the non-care they give the goats is OK because with the bloodline they can still get folks to purchase it. Vicki


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

farm mom said:


> The hay they were feeding was more straw looking than green hay. All the goats were gathered around this big pile (which I am wondering if he put out right before we came). !


may i ask where you are located? this sounds so familiar.


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## farm mom (Oct 10, 2006)

Susanne I am in Bend Oregon. 

I agree with you wholeheartedly Vicki. Unfortunately I thought I was more "rescuing" these goats since all of them seemed very small but otherwise seemingly healthy. I've had dairy goats in the past but had a very healthy herd and have not encountered cocci before. If I don't hear from the vet regarding the sample I dropped off today I will call them in the next hour. The seller still has not contacted me back. I don't like supporting her either with my money but if she becomes uncontactable then there isn't much I can do. :shrug:


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## farm mom (Oct 10, 2006)

Well, I just heard from the vet. They do have a huge overload of worms in them. On the paperwork I received at the time of the sale it said the seller purchased them in May and wormed in May but haven't since then. The vet saw no signs of cocci in their sample. I will be picking up a dewormer in the morning from the vet. She said we could treat them for cocci at this time if I want, it wouldn't hurt them. It was the vet tech I spoke with (the vet was out on a farm call) so she wasn't sure if treating them for cocci at this time would help with anything. She supposed the extremely small size could be lack of nutrition and the worms but could have also very likely been from cocci. Would treating them now for cocci be helpful at all? Even though the stool sample came out good? The plan right now was to worm them, get some good food in them, take back another sample in 10 days and see the results of that. She also stated this was only one sample so we can look for cocci again in the next sample. I really appreciate all of your help and expertise on this situation. Thanks!

Tiffany


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## BlueHeronFarm (Feb 9, 2007)

All goats will have some cocci organisms - it is usually only problematic in kids. If they told you it was nothing to worry about just treat the worms for now. Stomach worms will also interfere with absorption of nutrients, I believe.

In any case - stick with your plan - it sounds good to me. You'll know more in 10 days. Good luck.


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

overload on tapes can prevent growth in kids. combined with lack of good nutritional food would explain why they are so little. did the vet say what kind of parasite they have? 
go very easy on their food and start slowly to increase grain and/or alfa. 
i wish you luck


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

If there intestines aren't ruined, I would personally be optomistic about them being able to come back pretty well once they worm load is taken care of and they get good nutrition. They are still young.


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## HazyDay (Feb 20, 2007)

Just so I can tell you a good weight. My doeling who will be 6 months on October 26th was taped at 75pounds and I think she is small for her age! But not now!


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## fcnubian (Sep 7, 2006)

Ok curiousity got the best of me....So I went out and taped my goat, the 9month old that had coccidia....he taped 66lbs today... So he has put on some weight. 

Goodluck with your kids.


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