# Tries to drown puppy.



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I just read where some guy in New Jersey, put a puppy in a cage below the tide line, to drown the puppy. He was sentence to a year in the State Pen. I wonder how long he will last when his fellow inmates find out what he did. 

What a world we live in, you might get a year in prison for trying to drown a puppy. But it is ok to abort human babies.

We live in interesting times.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Interesting is a word.

I remember people growing up that would put kittens, pups, etc., in a toe sack and throw them in the river.

My mom knocked them in the head with a wrench.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

How do you guys put down puppies life stock etc. when they need to be?


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

AmericanStand said:


> How do you guys put down puppies life stock etc. when they need to be?


Put down puppies?
Any sick way you want.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

HDRider said:


> Interesting is a word.
> 
> I remember people growing up that would put kittens, pups, etc., in a toe sack and throw them in the river.
> 
> My mom knocked them in the head with a wrench.


That was common practice when i was a kid. Lot better then shooting them 6 times before they died. Just put them in a toe sack and dump them in the water.
Now days i think they gas them or some other cheap way at animal control all over the country. You can save their life if you adopt them.



HDRider said:


> Interesting is a word.
> 
> I remember people growing up that would put kittens, pups, etc., in a toe sack and throw them in the river.
> 
> My mom knocked them in the head with a wrench.


Now animal control takes control of killing them. 
Water or gas. About the same still dead. Law enforce still shoot them sometimes. It really take a good shot to killed a Dog or Cat. Some of them shot 5-6 times before they are dead. Most places now shoot them with a gun that knocks them out and then take them to the animal control to finish the job.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

Someone shot this dog near me.
I would have no problem shooting them.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Why ?


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

Why what?
I have no idea why they shot her.
In the National Forest in the middle of nowhere. 
She was still warm
I would have shot them, the truck I saw heading out.


AmericanStand said:


> Why ?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Why would you shoot them ?
Why are you displeased ?


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

AmericanStand said:


> Why would you shoot them ?
> Why are you displeased ?


That dog should have been shot in the head and left there?
No way.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

What would you prefer ?


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

AmericanStand said:


> What would you prefer ?


The dogs take their owners to the vet and have them put to sleep.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Wow you are one cruel animal hating sadist.

To take a act of loving kindness and turn it into such a sad thing.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

AmericanStand said:


> Wow you are one cruel animal hating sadist.
> 
> To take a act of loving kindness and turn it into such a sad thing.


Nope sorry, too many people should not be allowed to have pets.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> I just read where some guy in New Jersey, put a puppy in a cage below the tide line, to drown the puppy. He was sentence to a year in the State Pen. I wonder how long he will last when his fellow inmates find out what he did.
> 
> What a world we live in, you might get a year in prison for trying to drown a puppy. But it is ok to abort human babies.
> 
> We live in interesting times.


My honest opinion of society today, nothing means nothing, and everything is disposable.

We can only hope and pray the individual in question has his day.


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## Meinecke (Jun 30, 2017)

There are few things that should not be allowed...thats for sure...enforcing is the two sided sword problem...
First of, you cannot make it right for anyone's opinion and second, no one really wants the state to interfere with the freedom to do what ever...
And aborting a pregnancy in the ethical allowed (another of these "you cannot make anyone happy) time period and drowning a puppy are totally different things


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

elevenpoint said:


> Nope sorry, too many people should not be allowed to have pets.


You are talking about yourself?

I just don’t understand why anyone would react like you did to what is such obviously a loving act of compassion. 
I don’t know what you see but I do know what I see. 
A lonely old man taking his beloved aging pet out to a Country setting that he knows the dog enjoys. 
Having a long tearful last talk and then putting his beloved companion out of its misery with a carefully researched and aimed single shot. 
Then slowly hobbling back to his car and crying all the way home. 

You on the other hand want them both to go through the sadest day of their lives alone and scared. 

I don’t see how anyone can be so mean.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Glad the human excrement got jail time. If I caught someone trying to drown an animal, person might need recovery time (hospital).


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Hard to imagine that is an arrest-able offense unless he was doing it somewhere other than his own property, and / or he left the dead carcass somewhere he shouldn't have.

That's how I dealt with the last skunk I caught in live trap. Put the whole trap in the lake, then shook him out under water later so I didn't have to smell it.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> You are talking about yourself?
> 
> I just don’t understand why anyone would react like you did to what is such obviously a loving act of compassion.
> I don’t know what you see but I do know what I see.
> ...


I don't see it.

The picture of the dead dog makes me sick, but in my opinion, no self-respecting dog owner would do such a thing, and if they did, shame on them.

But, as I have mentioned in other conversations on this forum, nothing means nothing, and everything is disposable nowadays.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Drowning a puppy may not be the Best But it’s certainly not the worst way to euthanize


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> Drowning a puppy may not be the Best But it’s certainly not the worst way to euthanize


No animal or pet should ever be made to suffer.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Witch's Broom said:


> I don't see it.
> 
> The picture of the dead dog makes me sick, but in my opinion, no self-respecting dog owner would do such a thing, and if they did, shame on them.
> 
> But, as I have mentioned in other conversations on this forum, nothing means nothing, and everything is disposable nowadays.


 Strange How differently people can both see the same thing.
I’ve always seen those that send their animals to others to kill to die alone and frightened as too gutless to own a animal.


It’s a horrible job but I feel like you owe them that much.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> Strange How differently people can both see the same thing.
> I’ve always seen those that send their animals to others to kill to die alone and frightened as too gutless to own a animal.


I share your view, AS, but I would hope that most loving dog or pet owners accompany their sick or dying pets when the end process is administered, remaining with them through the entire process to help comfort and calm them.

I believe that is the most humane way of all.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I have known many people who have had their pets euthanized, I included. I don't know of any that did not stay with their animals at least to the part where they are sedated and unaware.

Drowning is a crappy way to do it.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

The vets I’ve seen won’t let you stay to the end. Not to mention what the vet charges. 

Do they sell the euthanasia shots at the farm store?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> The vets I’ve seen won’t let you stay to the end. Not to mention what the vet charges.
> 
> Do they sell the euthanasia shots at the farm store?


I have never in over 40 years dealt with a vet that did not let you stay to the end.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

Oh boo hoo. where does this "scared" animal stuff come from ?
I just had my old dog done by a vet. She happily walked with the girl to the back room and when the girl brought my leash and collar to me, I left..
In the past I stayed with the dogs to the end. but this time I just couldn't. 
I have shot dogs, and cats. One shot to the back of the head and it is done. You don't let the dog run around the property and then try to shoot it. 
Point blank range..
I have more respect for a person who drowns a litter of pups, than one who lets them grow up and over populates the world with more unwanted animals. 
I know, I know, spay or neuter.. but sometimes it happens..


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> How do you guys put down puppies life stock etc. when they need to be?


Small puppies, I use a stick of firewood. One sharp blow behind the head. Anything else I put a bullet in the brain. Large dogs from behind the head, livestock like horses and cattle one inch below center of forehead. They drop on the spot, never know what hit them.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

101pigs said:


> Some of them shot 5-6 times before they are dead.


Running loose maybe, most people are not good shots. I hold the collar with my left hand and shoot behind the head. I figure I owe them a fast painless death. Killing is a chore, not fun, but a chore none the less.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

elevenpoint said:


> Nope sorry, too many people should not be allowed to have pets.


And of course you are qualified to decide who is good and who isn't. Better a quick death, when they are at ease and not stressed. Than being taken to a strange place that smells like death, (Vet's Office) and injected by a stranger.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> I don't see it.
> 
> The picture of the dead dog makes me sick, but in my opinion, no self-respecting dog owner would do such a thing, and if they did, shame on them.
> 
> But, as I have mentioned in other conversations on this forum, nothing means nothing, and everything is disposable nowadays.


I have put a couple dozen sick or injured dogs, cats, deer, and horses, down this way. It is fast, and painless. People who can't do their own killing shouldn't have pets or livestock.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> I’ve always seen those that send their animals to others to kill to die alone and frightened as too gutless to own a animal.


Yep.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> I share your view, AS, but I would hope that most loving dog or pet owners accompany their sick or dying pets when the end process is administered, remaining with them through the entire process to help comfort and calm them.
> 
> I believe that is the most humane way of all.


And, that is what I do every time. I just do my own killing, I don't farm it out.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

elevenpoint said:


> Someone shot this dog near me.
> I would have no problem shooting them.
> View attachment 83730


So, you would murder someone because they killed a dog? Well, aren't you special.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> I have put a couple dozen sick or injured dogs, cats, deer, and horses, down this way. It is fast, and painless. People who can't do their own killing shouldn't have pets or livestock.


I commend you for your compassion, and yes, in the right context, I agree with this, but to take a family pet out to the country, dispatch it, and leave it for others to find, in my view is sick.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

muleskinner2 said:


> So, you would murder someone because they killed a dog? Well, aren't you special.


Funny, I had that very same thought.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> I commend you for your compassion, and yes, in the right context, I agree with this, but to take a family pet out to the country, dispatch it, and leave it for others to find, in my view is sick.


Not sick, just too lazy to dig a hole.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> Not sick, just too lazy to dig a hole.


Alright, sick AND lazy.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Someone left their dead dog in the ditch just down the road from us. It had the wrap from shots on it's leg. A very big dog.

I posted about it on Facebook and described it. Within a few hours, they had come back and got it.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

painterswife said:


> Someone left their dead dog in the ditch just down the road from us. It had the wrap from shots on it's leg. A very big dog.
> 
> I posted about it on Facebook and described it. Within a few hours, they had come back and got it.


Good on you for bringing it to the attention of others!


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Someone left their dead dog in the ditch just down the road from us. It had the wrap from shots on it's leg. A very big dog.
> 
> I posted about it on Facebook and described it. Within a few hours, they had come back and got it.


That is the first time I have ever heard of a good use for Facebook.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> That is the first time I have ever heard of a good use for Facebook.


It worked extremely well. I did not even have to post a picture. Just described the location and the dog. We live on a forest service road and the ditch was forest land. I think it was because it had been at the vet so it would easily have been identified if I had made a few calls.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

muleskinner2 said:


> That is the first time I have ever heard of a good use for Facebook.


A dead dog in a ditch is about the only "good" that Facebook is for.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

AmericanStand said:


> You are talking about yourself?
> 
> I just don’t understand why anyone would react like you did to what is such obviously a loving act of compassion.
> I don’t know what you see but I do know what I see.
> ...


I should have included more info, two younger guys were less than a mile on the forest road heading out while I was heading in. It was 20 degrees out and the dog had just been shot as it was still warm, this is a remote area with little traffic. 
Dogs in the country are stolen and the news stories about animal abuse are sickening, burned with acid, rubber bands wrapped around their nose, duct tape around their nose, left in a cage on the side of the road, a beagle skinned alive. 
Animal abusers are a special type of sick, I hope I never catch someone skinning a dog alive.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

elevenpoint said:


> I should have included more info, two younger guys were less than a mile on the forest road heading out while I was heading in. It was 20 degrees out and the dog had just been shot as it was still warm, this is a remote area with little traffic.
> Dogs in the country are stolen and the news stories about animal abuse are sickening, burned with acid, rubber bands wrapped around their nose, duct tape around their nose, left in a cage on the side of the road, a beagle skinned alive.
> Animal abusers are a special type of sick, I hope I never catch someone skinning a dog alive.


I for one would welcome a law that would see the hands of such perpetrators, chopped off.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Witch's Broom said:


> I commend you for your compassion, and yes, in the right context, I agree with this, but to take a family pet out to the country, dispatch it, and leave it for others to find, in my view is sick.


 In the picture it’s a old dog humanely put down with a single shot. The only reason I could think someone would take that kinda care and leave it on the road was their inability to walk or walk more than a few steps.
BUT
Perhaps they had planned on taking it to the woods to bury when they heard someone coming 
Did you check on it later to see if the came back and buried it ?


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> In the picture it’s a old dog humanely put down with a single shot. The only reason I could think someone would take that kinda care and leave it on the road was their inability to walk or walk more than a few steps.


I don't know, AS, one side of me wants to believe good intent was involved, but my other side is telling me it was done with malice.

Just so upsetting to see.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Witch's Broom said:


> I for one would welcome a law that would see the hands of such perpetrators, chopped off.


 That just ain’t right
Worse for your soul than theirs.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Witch's Broom said:


> I don't know, AS, one side of me wants to believe good intent was involved, but my other side is telling me it was done with malice.
> 
> Just so upsetting to see.


 Since I didn’t see it I prefer to see good not evil. 
easier on my soul.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> That just ain’t right
> Worse for your soul than theirs.


I have always supported an eye for an eye system, and abusing animals (in my books) would qualify for a punishment that would fit the crime.

Make no mistake, my soul would rest easy.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

No, still laying there four days later. 
Sinister and evil.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> Since I didn’t see it I prefer to see good not evil.
> easier on my soul.


I admire you for thinking the way you do.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

True story. In an area where I used to live, the local vet had to rent a Post Office box in town and take down his mailbox at home. About once a week, he'd go out to get his mail, and there would be a dog tied up to it.

geo


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

geo in mi said:


> True story. In an area where I used to live, the local vet had to rent a Post Office box in town and take down his mailbox at home. About once a week, he'd go out to get his mail, and there would be a dog tied up to it.
> 
> geo


I can believe it.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Me too


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> I for one would welcome a law that would see the hands of such perpetrators, chopped off.


Simple, all you would have to do is convert to Islam. Although they don't like dogs very much, they normally pour gas on them and set them on fire. It seems old Mohammed mentioned in the Koran, that he considered dogs to be unclean.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

muleskinner2 said:


> So, you would murder someone because they killed a dog? Well, aren't you special.


Nobody said anything about murder, maybe just shoot a hand or few fingers off.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

AmericanStand said:


> Drowning a puppy may not be the Best But it’s certainly not the worst way to euthanize


Why don't you entertain all of us on your favorite ways to kill a puppy?
Go ahead, I'm sure it will be interesting.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

muleskinner2 said:


> Small puppies, I use a stick of firewood. One sharp blow behind the head. Anything else I put a bullet in the brain. Large dogs from behind the head, livestock like horses and cattle one inch below center of forehead. They drop on the spot, never know what hit them.


Killing puppies with a piece of firewood, now ain't you special.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Whenever possible I call our mobile vet out on a farm call to euthanize our terminally ill dogs , horses or livestock, however if any of our animals is attacked by coyote or feral dog packs critically , I will resort to using a gunshot to the head to put them out of their misery as quickly as possible before using the backhoe front end loader to dig the grave and carry the carcass to keep the buzzards from circling regardless if our vet has made a farm call to euthanize or I had to head shot euthanize in the middle of the night.

Gunshot euthanizing although not as common today, sometimes is more humane than letting an animal suffer for a couple hours or more for the vet to make a farm call.

As far as our dogs and cats, if they have to be euthanized, we always get a farm call so they can pass in the comfort of home instead of a hospital environment just as the human members of our family hope to die in our own beds.

The only thing I do if calling the vet out to put down a pet that can't stand on their own anymore or some other life ending condition, I check our stock records and have him take care of any stock needing routine farm call exams within a month to reduce overall farm call fee a bit.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

elevenpoint said:


> Nobody said anything about murder, maybe just shoot a hand or few fingers off.


ref: post #35 . when that phrase is used without a qualification note, it usually means shoot to kill.
I know a woman who killed puppies and kittens by chopping them in half with a shovel. She was just a young girl at the time when she was told to get rid of them..


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> ref: post #35 . when that phrase is used without a qualification note, it usually means shoot to kill.
> I know a woman who killed puppies and kittens by chopping them in half with a shovel. She was just a young girl at the time when she was told to get rid of them..


I've found the reason anyone makes for killing puppies is they were irresponsible pet owners. Spay and neuter is not much, if you can't afford it, don't have a pet.
But I've seen firsthand that they can't spay a cat, resulting in endless kittens because they can't "afford" it.
Free lunches for their kids at school too.
But they can "afford" vodka, pot, cigarettes, and $150 a month for Dish.
One more time, some should never own a pet. Never.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> ref: post #35 . when that phrase is used without a qualification note, it usually means shoot to kill.
> I know a woman who killed puppies and kittens by chopping them in half with a shovel. She was just a young girl at the time when she was told to get rid of them..


The young girls parents should have been beaten with a whip at minimum.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

It is a dog. Not a human. No different than a bug caught in a windshield wiper, or the meat on a chicken leg being thrown in the trash. Maybe a needless death. Tied to a post and killed in a game of darts, yeah, that's sadistic, shot in the back of the head, pretty humane. 

Drowning, Ive drowned hundreds of animals. It's the best method in some circumstances. They die pretty much the same way that they die in a CO2 chamber. they thrash a bit and fall asleep. CO works a little better, maybe a tiny bit less thrashing if you ease them into it. Barbiturates are the best, but you have to have a vet, so it's going to cost way more than a .22 shell.

If you enjoy using a dog for any purpose besides turning money into poop, or if you enjoy a particular breed of dog, know this. Somebody, at some time, killed some puppies or adult dogs to make that breed. There were unwanted dogs with undesirable traits as a result of outcrossing, test breeding, or experimentation. There is absolutely no way around it in a breeding program. Once all the neighborhood kids had a "pet" dog, those dogs would have been killed. In more primitive. need oriented cultures it would have been more a matter of, dog doesn't do job, dog does not get fed. Easier with cows and chickens, you can eat the culls.

As for the dog left by the side of the road.You don't know people's life story at a glance. Are they kicked out of their house, health problems, money problems, abusive spouse problems? Did they get somebody to take their dog for them? They could have handed some methheads some money and said here feed my dog until he dies and they hauled it to the woods and shot it. They also could have had to dispose of the dog because their momma has stage 4 cancer and they have to move closer to treatment and they can't take the dog. Would that mean they should never have a dog again? Will the regret they have in this situation make future situations and choices better? You don't know. Did it bite their kid, or kill the neighbor's chickens? What if the landlord had chickens?

I'm just glad they didn't dump it in the country where it could kill somebodies sheep or dig into somebodies good working dog gyp that was coming in heat. They definitely weren't sadistic or evil, shot placement proves that. Also glad they didn't take it to the pound, pounds mean well sometimes, but it's kind of a big waste of time money and resources with the same eventual outcome.

But to wish harm on another human being because something happened to a dog, the details of which you do not know, that is the true sickness here.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

barnbilder said:


> It is a dog. Not a human. No different than a bug caught in a windshield wiper, or the meat on a chicken leg being thrown in the trash. Maybe a needless death. Tied to a post and killed in a game of darts, yeah, that's sadistic, shot in the back of the head, pretty humane.
> 
> Drowning, Ive drowned hundreds of animals. It's the best method in some circumstances. They die pretty much the same way that they die in a CO2 chamber. they thrash a bit and fall asleep. CO works a little better, maybe a tiny bit less thrashing if you ease them into it. Barbiturates are the best, but you have to have a vet, so it's going to cost way more than a .22 shell.
> 
> ...


Nonsense, you don't blow a dogs brains out in the woods and leave it there.
A bug on a windshield? Nope.
Quite a few here have no problem killing puppies and brag about the ways to.
That's where your definition comes from as a human being. 
No pun intended, but there are some real sick puppies here.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2...in-case-of-dog-left-in-cage-with-tide-rising/

It wasn't his dog and it wasn't supposed to be a quick end.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

elevenpoint said:


> Nonsense, you don't blow a dogs brains out in the woods and leave it there.
> A bug on a windshield? Nope.
> Quite a few here have no problem killing puppies and brag about the ways to.
> That's where your definition comes from as a human being.
> No pun intended, but there are some real sick puppies here.


 Why not ?
Barnbuilder got it right. 
You are talking about animals here,commodities ,livestock ,possessions that can be bought sold. 
The reason we treat them with human decency is for the decency of the humans not the pets. 
To be mad at the parents of a child for Miss handling the situation is to show a lack of human decency and compassion. 
Children make mistakes in the learning process for that matter parents do too


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

painterswife said:


> It worked extremely well. I did not even have to post a picture. Just described the location and the dog. We live on a forest service road and the ditch was forest land. I think it was because it had been at the vet so it would easily have been identified if I had made a few calls.


Or maybe someone else decided to do the decent thing and give it a burial?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

elevenpoint said:


> Why don't you entertain all of us on your favorite ways to kill a puppy?
> Go ahead, I'm sure it will be interesting.


 Really? You want to be entertained with stories about how to kill puppies?
That’s. Plain . Wrong.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

elevenpoint said:


> Killing puppies with a piece of firewood, now ain't you special.


 Yes he is. 
He has Chosen to take the responsibility personallyto make their end as quick and painless as possible at the cost of suffering himself. 

Hasn’t put that distasteful job off on someone else.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I find it cruel and heartless for someone to take an animal to a vet to euthanize. I just can’t believe anybody can’t have some empathy in that situation.


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## ticndig (Sep 7, 2014)

I drown hundreds of animals ever year . then coat them with Old bay and get to cracking. They go good with a cold beer too!

well this guy is sure to tick you off --https://www.progress-index.com/news/20200217/21-hunting-dogs-found-dead-in-dinwiddie-kennel


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

muleskinner2 said:


> I just read where some guy in New Jersey, put a puppy in a cage below the tide line, to drown the puppy. He was sentence to a year in the State Pen. I wonder how long he will last when his fellow inmates find out what he did.
> 
> What a world we live in, you might get a year in prison for trying to drown a puppy. But it is ok to abort human babies.
> 
> We live in interesting times.


No one is forced to abort a fetus. That's why it's called "pro-choice". What some want is a woman forced to to carry a pregnancy to term despite it being her body and her decision. Right now at least, women have rights. And there will always be abortion, the only thing that repealing Roe v. Wade will do is cause unsafe, DIY, back alley abortions. More women will die. Perhaps that is what some want, after all, they're only women.

Did you know the issue of abortion was decided on the 13th Amendment? It's at least as important as the 2nd, in my opinion.

ETA: It's also my opinion that jail time for the person who drowned puppies was the right call.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> *Did you know *the issue of abortion was decided on the 13th Amendment? It's at least as important as the 2nd, in my opinion.


*Did you know* this thread is about a dog?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> *Did you know* this thread is about a dog?


I'm sorry, did you miss this in the original post? Plus we simply can't direct which way a thread goes, it's called "thread drift". 



muleskinner2 said:


> I just read where some guy in New Jersey, put a puppy in a cage below the tide line, to drown the puppy. He was sentence to a year in the State Pen. I wonder how long he will last when his fellow inmates find out what he did.
> 
> What a world we live in, you might get a year in prison for trying to drown a puppy. *But it is ok to abort human babies.*
> 
> We live in interesting times.


Happy to help.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm sorry, did you miss this in the original post?


Nope, I didn't miss anything.



Irish Pixie said:


> Plus *we simply can't direct* which way a thread goes, it's called "thread drift".


And yet you did...


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2...in-case-of-dog-left-in-cage-with-tide-rising/
> 
> It wasn't his dog and it wasn't supposed to be a quick end.


What an evil person!


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

I had a mixed breed (you know, half of the dogs from this side of the lab got together with the dogs from the other side of the lab and created 'lab puppies). We were pretty sure that Addith was Irish Setter, because that's what mom looked to be, but Addith really looked more like a pit/boxer kind of dog. And she was a great dog, until she wasn't. At about 4 she decided to kill all the ducks that she had lived peacefully with for her entire life-which we thought odd, but dogs will be dogs. We just figured next spring we'd get a new batch and would not let the free range and all would be safe. Then she went after our other dog, Puppy who was a year older than her. Luckily no real harm done there, and again, dogs will be dogs.

Then one day a woman jogs by our property, she had been doing this for about a year at this point, both dogs knew her and were used to her comings and goings. Completely out of the blue Addi jumps the fence and goes after her. The woman (thank God) knew not to run. She stopped, held a large water bottle she had been carrying out in front of her and started screaming for help. Addi pretty much ravaged that water bottle, and I don't want to think what would have happened if she didn't have it. I walked outside, I immediately called for her and it was like a switch flipped. She stopped and let go of the water bottle, turned around and walked about 4ft to the fence and sat down wagging her tail and waited for me to open the gate. When I did she immediately walked into the yard and walked with me back to the house, where i left her and I went back to make sure the woman was ok. She was scared and a bit shaken up, but was otherwise fine. I gave her my phone number and asked her to call me if she needed anything at all. I never heard from her again, and she never jogged by our place again. 

I realized I needed to do something, that I could no longer trust this dog. So I called every vet within a 20 mile radius--was about 8 vets if I remember correctly. None of them would put her down. They all told me to get her some proper training. They wouldn't put a dog down just because it hadn't been trained. Etc. Etc. 

This dog was trained. She came when called, even when in the middle of a full out I'm gonna get you attack, I called, she came. She had never in 4 years jumped the 4' fence. She sat when told, she stayed, she came when called. Looking back she was one of the best trained dogs we ever had, she just wasn't 'right.' I knew this... my husband knew this, but we couldn't find a vet who would listen to us. We couldn't take her to the pound and take the chance that they'd adopt her out to a family with small kids or pets or even jogging neighbors. No rescue would take her after I told them what happened because she was aggressive.

There comes a point and time when you have to consider taking care of what needs to be done yourself.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> I find it cruel and heartless for someone to take an animal to a vet to euthanize. I just can’t believe anybody can’t have some empathy in that situation.


Ridiculous. 
DIY euthanasia may work for some people, but not for me.


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## tripletmom (Feb 4, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> The vets I’ve seen won’t let you stay to the end. Not to mention what the vet charges.
> 
> Do they sell the euthanasia shots at the farm store?


I don't have a problem shooting a pet when it's time, if I/we could do it. Some we have and some we couldn't. I would bury him though rather than just leave him. That's just me though. 
Never had an issue with the vet.
We even had a vet come to the house on Christmas eve morning. Our Pal went with his head in my lap in his own living room with his family around him. We'd already dug a hole for him out back. 
Next time, took him for one last truck ride. Vet came out to the parking lot, he never had to get out of his truck. 
Point being, you had the wrong vet. 
Again though, I don't disagree with your method.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

doozie said:


> Ridiculous.
> DIY euthanasia may work for some people, but not for me.


 I think you misunderstood my post. 
I had just commented 
“Yes he is. 
He has Chosen to take the responsibility personallyto make their end as quick and painless as possible at the cost of suffering himself. 

Hasn’t put that distasteful job off on someone else.”
Then I said 
“I find it cruel and heartless for someone to take an animal to a vet to euthanize. I just can’t believe anybody can’t have some empathy in that situation.”

I wasn’t talking about do it yourself euthanasia
I was talking about how cruel it is for you to take an animal to a vet to kill. 
I bet if you interviewed every vet in the country not one of them will ever say I got into the business so I could kill animals. 

The only reason they ever put an animal down is to ease it’s suffering. 
They do it because they’re afraid you’re going to botch it so bad, Not for the money. 
It just seems cruel to force someone to kill an animal who’s entire life is dedicated to making their lives better.
Someone that obviously loves animals. 
I’m sorry I don’t See anything good about taking an animal to the vet to be put down other than it lets you shirk your responsibilities. 

I think I said it somewhere before in this thread if you can’t kill a animal you shouldn’t have one.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> I think you misunderstood my post.
> I had just commented
> “Yes he is.
> He has Chosen to take the responsibility personallyto make their end as quick and painless as possible at the cost of suffering himself.
> ...


Your last sentence is just as ridiculous

I could kill my animal to ease its suffering but I choose to do it in a manner my vet and I have mutually agreed on.
I'm not "forcing" my vet to provide a service. And I've had yet to have one advise me to prolong a pets life for either of our sakes.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

doozie said:


> Ridiculous.
> DIY euthanasia may work *for some people*, but not for me.


It only has to work for the dog.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

GTX63 said:


> Just an fyi, you are being trolled.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

doozie said:


> Your last sentence is just as ridiculous
> 
> I could kill my animal to ease its suffering but I choose to do it in a manner my vet and I have mutually agreed on.
> I'm not "forcing" my vet to provide a service. And I've had yet to have one advise me to prolong a pets life for either of our sakes.


You have no empathy for him ?


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## ticndig (Sep 7, 2014)

have you ever shot a dog?


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> I know a woman who killed puppies and kittens by chopping them in half with a shovel. She was just a young girl at the time when she was told to get rid of them..


Confirmation that evil exists among us.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

elevenpoint said:


> The young girls parents should have been beaten with a whip at minimum.


At minimum is right!


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> You have no empathy for him ?


I have a heck of a lot more empathy for my vet than the person that bonks a puppy upside the head or holds them under water. That's just me though...


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

elevenpoint said:


> Why don't you entertain all of us on your favorite ways to kill a puppy?
> Go ahead, I'm sure it will be interesting.


Do Bob Cats count?


elevenpoint said:


> Why don't you entertain all of us on your favorite ways to kill a puppy?
> Go ahead, I'm sure it will be interesting.


I have seen photos posted on the net with skinned Cats hanging outside market for sale. Would that count. Some people do eat Cats. I don't see anything wrong eating Cats if you like Cat meat.  How about some Cat and dumplings or Cat soup.

China- over 10k Cats per year killed for meat.
India
Korea
Switzerland
Vietnam
Indonesia, Asia, Taiwan etc.
That is just a few countries that eat cats.
Many more countries eat cat meat also Dog meat.
While living in Long Beach, Ca. years ago a lot of Chinese etc. moved to L.B.Ca. A lot of pet Cats and Dogs went missing for a few years. 

How about Horse. It is sold in the U.S.A.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

elevenpoint said:


> Killing puppies with a piece of firewood, now ain't you special.


Thank you. There are chores that need to be done. At the end of the day, there are two kinds of people in this world. Cowards, and the rest of us.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> I find it cruel and heartless for someone to take an animal to a vet to euthanize. I just can’t believe anybody can’t have some empathy in that situation.


When Mom had her last dog put down the vet came out to the car in the parking lot to do it. Both he and Mom bawled like babies afterward. Mom has put down dogs before, but just couldn't do it with that one.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

doozie said:


> What an evil person!


And that is why the charge and sentence were so severe.

I just wonder why the dog was put up for "adoption" and not returned to the owner.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> Thank you. There are chores that need to be done. *At the end of the day, there are two kinds of people in this world. Cowards, and the rest of us*.


Oh-oh... sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. 

To take a life, _any life_, doesn't come easy for most, and nor should it, but to suggest that those who are 100% adverse to taking a life are cowards, is wrong. It doesn't boil down to cowards vs heroes, or the strong vs the weak, or, look at me, I can do this, and you can't.

We are each born with and harvest our own strengths and weaknesses, and for those unwilling to end an animals life account suffering, that's where qualified people come into play, but to paint those as cowards who seek the help and assistance of such services, is pinheaded.

Now come on, Mule, quit being a pinhead, would you!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

doozie said:


> I have a heck of a lot more empathy for my vet than the person that bonks a puppy upside the head or holds them under water. That's just me though...


You're not alone. The Vet that euthanized our 15 year old beagle last fall, got down on the floor and fussed over her with us. He'll forever have our gratitude.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> Oh-oh... sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
> 
> To take a life, _any life_, doesn't come easy for most, and nor should it, but to suggest that those who are 100% adverse to taking a life are cowards, is wrong. It doesn't boil down to cowards vs heroes, or the strong vs the weak, or, look at me, I can do this, and you can't.
> 
> ...


Coming up with excuses, and calling names is just cowardly. My view of the world is very black and white, you either can or you can't. There is no try, only do.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Obviously there are people here who have never had to deal with livestock. Unwanted pups must be disposed of---which is more cruel---leaving them on the roadside to die, a single shot to the head, drowning, a blow to the head, or gas? My own method was to put the pups in a plastic garbage bag, squeeze the air out of the bag and fill the bag with carbon dioxide---Carbon monoxide might have been faster and has been used by some city pounds. In either case the animals were asphyxiated. Picking up starving pups off the roadside and putting them down is unpleasant work that causes one to despise people who think they "love" animals. 

Cancer-eyed or "downer" cows got a single shot to the head. Stray dogs harassing livestock got a shot wherever it hit. Stray or feral cats usually got a shotgun blast. ***** and other such varmints got a bullet in the head if trapped. ("Bullet" includes a pellet from a high powered pellet gun, quiet and inexpensive.)

Kipling wrote "Never give your heart to a dog"---the man was right. People who agonize over a dog but approve of abortion are, in my humble opinion, nuts.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Oxankle said:


> Obviously there are people here who have never had to deal with livestock. Unwanted pups must be disposed of---which is more cruel---leaving them on the roadside to die, a single shot to the head, drowning, a blow to the head, or gas? My own method was to put the pups in a plastic garbage bag, squeeze the air out of the bag and fill the bag with carbon dioxide---Carbon monoxide might have been faster and has been used by some city pounds. In either case the animals were asphyxiated. Picking up starving pups off the roadside and putting them down is unpleasant work that causes one to despise people who think they "love" animals.
> 
> Cancer-eyed or "downer" cows got a single shot to the head. Stray dogs harassing livestock got a shot wherever it hit. Stray or feral cats usually got a shotgun blast. ***** and other such varmints got a bullet in the head if trapped. ("Bullet" includes a pellet from a high powered pellet gun, quiet and inexpensive.)
> 
> Kipling wrote "Never give your heart to a dog"---the man was right. People who agonize over a dog but approve of abortion are, in my humble opinion, nuts.


You shouldn't have an abortion, not ever. Maybe not a dog either...


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Oxankle said:


> Obviously there are people here who have never had to deal with livestock. Unwanted pups must be disposed of---which is more cruel---leaving them on the roadside to die, a single shot to the head, drowning, a blow to the head, or gas? My own method was to put the pups in a plastic garbage bag, squeeze the air out of the bag and fill the bag with carbon dioxide---Carbon monoxide might have been faster and has been used by some city pounds. In either case the animals were asphyxiated. Picking up starving pups off the roadside and putting them down is unpleasant work that causes one to despise people who think they "love" animals.
> 
> Cancer-eyed or "downer" cows got a single shot to the head. Stray dogs harassing livestock got a shot wherever it hit. Stray or feral cats usually got a shotgun blast. ***** and other such varmints got a bullet in the head if trapped. ("Bullet" includes a pellet from a high powered pellet gun, quiet and inexpensive.)
> 
> Kipling wrote "Never give your heart to a dog"---the man was right. People who agonize over a dog but approve of abortion are, in my humble opinion, nuts.


spaying and neutering work well.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

Oxankle said:


> Obviously there are people here who have never had to deal with livestock. Unwanted pups must be disposed of---which is more cruel---leaving them on the roadside to die, a single shot to the head, drowning, a blow to the head, or gas? My own method was to put the pups in a plastic garbage bag, squeeze the air out of the bag and fill the bag with carbon dioxide---Carbon monoxide might have been faster and has been used by some city pounds. In either case the animals were asphyxiated. Picking up starving pups off the roadside and putting them down is unpleasant work that causes one to despise people who think they "love" animals.
> 
> Cancer-eyed or "downer" cows got a single shot to the head. Stray dogs harassing livestock got a shot wherever it hit. Stray or feral cats usually got a shotgun blast. ***** and other such varmints got a bullet in the head if trapped. ("Bullet" includes a pellet from a high powered pellet gun, quiet and inexpensive.)
> 
> Kipling wrote "Never give your heart to a dog"---the man was right. People who agonize over a dog but approve of abortion are, in my humble opinion, nuts.


No sense leaving them on the side of the road, which is where one of the beagles was about run over.
Her sister was on the porch one morning about 4am about 2 months before her sister was picked up.
One set of triplets, two sets of twins.
Which ones the only male?


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## markt1 (Dec 15, 2013)

People who abuse animals are the same types that abuse kids. I always carry both mace and a 454 Casull magnum revolver in the woods. If I encountered a situation where I caught someone abusing a dog in the woods, I would hold him at gunpoint, mace him in the face, then shoot out a kneecap. And those are MY moral values. With no apologies.


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## dyrne (Feb 22, 2015)

Shooting a dog cleanly out in the woods where it is comfortable and happy is in my opinion kinder than the stress of taking it into vets office to die under florescent lights in a sterile room. People are too removed from the real world these days. They think that they can abdicate responsibility for basic things to these authority figures. No, if you had your dog put down it wasn't kinder to take it into the vet from its perspective. It was just easier on you.


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

I don't have pets anymore, but when I did have to put a pet down, I used a vet who did it properly.

For the record, I don't drill my own teeth, represent myself in court, or install my own gas furnace either. I do the things I can do competently, and hire professionals to do the things I can't. If someone can put down an animal humanely themselves, I have no problem with that. But leaving the carcass out by the side of the road is poor form in anyone's books.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> Confirmation that evil exists among us.


Poor technique, doesn't make you evil.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

There is no “win” in this debate , just different suck. 
My only real argument is with those that purposely make a death worse than it needs to be. 
everything else is just shades of suck.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

elevenpoint said:


> I've found the reason anyone makes for killing puppies is they were irresponsible pet owners. Spay and neuter is not much, if you can't afford it, don't have a pet.
> But I've seen firsthand that they can't spay a cat, resulting in endless kittens because they can't "afford" it.
> Free lunches for their kids at school too.
> But they can "afford" vodka, pot, cigarettes, and $150 a month for Dish.
> One more time, some should never own a pet. Never.


People drop cats and dogs off here all the time. I had 3 cats fixed. That is all the cats I want.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> People drop cats and dogs off here all the time. I had 3 cats fixed. That is all the cats I want.


I was pretty content with the old gal next door having 2 outside cats and me owning none, until someone felt the need to start dropping older house cats in my yard every time the temperature drops. 

My first mistake was believing the shelter in town would find them good homes. The shelter is full and I haven't got the heart to shoot them now so they're well settled. Given the fact that neither are competent mousers, I'm pretty sure they would have starved to death if they hadn't frozen to death. 

I'm pretty convinced there's a special place in hell for people who dump pets.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> There is no “win” in this debate , just different suck.
> My only real argument is with those that purposely make a death worse than it needs to be.
> everything else is just shades of suck.


I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. If a pet needs to be put down, it needs to be put down humanely. 

Some people are able to do it correctly and others are too emotionally involved to make sure they do the job right. The only thing that really matters is making sure the decisions we make don't cause animals further suffering.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Fist cleanup.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> I was pretty content with the old gal next door having 2 outside cats and me owning none, until someone felt the need to start dropping older house cats in my yard every time the temperature drops.
> 
> My first mistake was believing the shelter in town would find them good homes. The shelter is full and I haven't got the heart to shoot them now so they're well settled. Given the fact that neither are competent mousers, I'm pretty sure they would have starved to death if they hadn't frozen to death.
> 
> I'm pretty convinced there's a special place in hell for people who dump pets.


I have no mice problems


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

muleskinner2 said:


> Thank you. There are chores that need to be done. At the end of the day, there are two kinds of people in this world. Cowards, and the rest of us.


So you do your own veterinary work on your animals? Rabies, distemper, etc?
I've had all of them spayed, neutered, their shots, heartworm prevention, etc.
One knocked out and stitched up, really endless what the vet has done for them.
When my horse had a sarcoid tumor on his side I called the equine vet, I didn't cut it off with a knife. 
The opposite of coward would be bravery?
You feel brave when you whack a puppy to death with a piece of firewood?
It don't work like that.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wr said:


> Fist cleanup.


 No doubt that’s accurate.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

It's one thing to put down your own pet for whatever reason. You do what you want or have to with your own. That is NOT why the guy was charged with animal cruelty.

It's a totally different thing to steal your ex-girlfriends dog, lock it in a crate and set it in the low tide zone on the beach. That is what that guy did and that is why he was charged with cruelty.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Setting the abortion issue aside for a different discussion. But for the puppy drowning:
A) Cruelty to animals is wrong. A decent society has laws against it. 
B) Humane killing of animals is part of our society. Stockyards do it. Farmers do it.
C) Humane killing is becoming more and more risky and homesteaders should be concerned. For example, I had a 15 yr old dog suffering terribly but I did not dare to take a gun and put hm out of his misery as some neighbor might report me, but rather I called the vet. Also, I did not have the heart to do it. Is someone going to report me if when I behead my meat chickens?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

MichaelZ said:


> Is someone going to report me if when I behead my meat chickens?


Now that you mention it, my wife has been following a thread on facebook recently.
A woman raises meat rabbits. 
New neighbors bought a house on a hill overlooking the woman's property. It is rural but the houses are both near the property line together. Everything seemed fine between the two women at first. Then one morning the woman went out back and began butchering her rabbits. The neighbor saw it and has a 4 alarm meltdown. It seems the new neighbor is a vegan and a PITA (the organization as well as a pain in the grits). Every time the woman goes out to the rabbit cages, the neighbor sends her kids out to watch and make comments. The neighbor has called county animal control. Rabbit cages have been broken into and rabbits missing. Paint poured onto a stainless steel processing table.
Since they can see down onto her land anytime, the woman has had to hang blue tarps on clothes lines so she can work in private.
And yes, the neighbor is a liberal, a socialist and pro abortion/murder of children.
It isn't uncommon for my wife to see to admin post on various homesteading/off grid/self sufficiency pages warning people to stop complaining about threads and photos of dead deer, hogs, turkeys, and the processing of such.
People, it is an outdoors thing.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Last cleanup.


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