# No Mans Land



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

new tv show that might be decent....i wont hold my breath...lol.....but it might be ok...one clip i have seen the guy shows a larger version of the cool pot they use in africa and other hot dry places .his is a trash can burried inground with sand around it for the cooling effect....but anyway thought i would post it and everyone can be their own judge and jury to this shows worth.


http://www.history.com/shows/no-mans-land










The desert is one of the most hostile environments on Earthâa no manâs land, where civilization ends. The names on the map testify to the hardship that has been a way of life for 150 years, from Death Valley, CA to Boneyard, AZ. Those who choose to live in this barren landscape operate by a simple motto: adapt or die. It takes a special breed to survive the crippling heat, stealthy predators and volatile weather, but those who make these badlands their home find freedom and for some, escape. Survival here requires ingenuity, grit and self-reliance.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

also to survive an illegal alien encounter....deserts seem to be their favorite place to cross over (multiple choice)


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

the hawk family has an outstanding looking 10acre homestead.looks like they provide a huge portion of their daily needs/goods with their own hands.jason hawk reminds me of johnny depp...he lives there with his partner and daughter and his father.

several of these people seem to have serious primitive skills.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

http://www.history.com/shows/no-mans-land/videos/meet-the-hawks?m=5189719baf036&s=All&f=1&free=false



meet the hawks....3min video.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

The bits and pieces they show makes it hard for me to watch. A more documentery type show about each one would be interesting to me.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Just so long as none of those moochers try to sneak a fish...... :bash:


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Allen W said:


> The bits and pieces they show makes it hard for me to watch. A more documentery type show about each one would be interesting to me.



i was disappointed in it so far....the 3min clip of the hawks homestead was by far more interesting and informative than they show.i think they have nice working homestead.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Forerunner said:


> Just so long as none of those moochers try to sneak a fish...... :bash:



one of them says hes hunting precious stones...he aint fooling me...its ammo for slingshot for killing food.....roflmao....:teehee:....i about popped a blood vessel when he drank straight from a nasty waterhole only to find a dead hawk and squirrel in a pool above him.....lol...$20 lifestraw woulda made it safe to drink.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

See ?

Where's the punitive fine for drinking the king's foul waters ?

Where's the _love_, man ?


:indif:


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Forerunner said:


> See ?
> 
> Where's the punitive fine for drinking the king's foul waters ?
> 
> ...


i got all kinds of love for him....i dont care how many rocks he gathers or fish,fowl and game either or the water he drinks.i only wish i was there to help him....lol....:shrug::teehee:


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Ha-ha-ha, you guys are so funny. These guys are also looking for some airtime to supplement their hunter-gatherer lifestyle. They ain't fooling me.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Ha-ha-ha, you guys are so funny. These guys are also looking for some airtime to supplement their hunter-gatherer lifestyle. They ain't fooling me.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

They say the third time's the charm, BD.

Hit it one more time..........


:hysterical:


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

I thought what I had posted was so important it was worth repeating. :grin:


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

I kinda got the urge to go look in my back 40 to see if the Hawk homestead was on my place. Looked about the same.
I like Yukon Men, MOuntain men and such but those leave me cold, literally, I get the shivers just watching. This show at least looks warm and more to my liking. Will for sure be kepping these to watch over and over so I can look for details on the pause time.
Ed


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

bowdonkey said:


> Ha-ha-ha, you guys are so funny. These guys are also looking for some airtime to supplement their hunter-gatherer lifestyle. They ain't fooling me.



a true hunter/gather type gathers all resources they can be it roadkill or greenbacks.

on video they were doing a large tabletop in exchange for electrical work on their home.

watch video....check out the outside woodfire hot water tank....looks like a giant kelly kettle to me.

the modern hunter/gather/scrounger type will be a blend of past and present technologies.

i can see us now flint knapping while listening to our ipod thingys....or sitting by fire cooking while we drink ice tea...ice made in our small freezer off solar panels.....:teehee::shrug:


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

I guess my definitions are different than most folks. He is no different than a few people on this site. I know more who fit the hunter/gatherer definition here than what's being portrayed on the video. Him and his family are setting up and living a somewhat self reliant lifestyle. Nothing more. And it's great, more power to him. His buildings are fantastic in my book. I would love to see his place. I'm jealous of the fact that in those dry climates you can scavenge wood. Here in a couple years all you have is punk. As an aside, I bet he had a hunting license! Don't ever take me wrong, it's a great lifestyle. I wish more young folks would give it serious thought. I might even divulge my trapping secrets to the right person? He-he! But I would never ask them to don loin clothes to be the real mckoy. Nor would I recomend any youtube video of these type of lifestyles as good examples. All of the folks I've seen rely heavily on modern society. What people have got to realize is they couldn't live their lifestyle independent of modern society. Without it they would fail. :flame:


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

yea but you cant reverse engineer everything or whatever the wording should be....take snare wire...i know you love it me too....so a huge roll along with stops and cams and what ever other hardware you prefer on them will keep you in snares and most likely your children and grandkids too...does that mean they are not self sufficient? not in my book...i think you are looking for pureist primitives and my guess there are very few...all societies after all adapt both for good and bad when they encounter other cultures that have more advanced or other types of technologies that they currently use.and snare wire is a far cry superior than wild made cordages.

take the punky wood you and i have....we should be inoculating the unused logs and stumps with oyster spore....so far the blue dolphin has far been my best spore.

so yes they have a modern metal tank for hot water..but its their daily gathering of wood and gathering of water in tank and fired and then carried inside home for use is a far cry from what most of us do for hot water.....i rely on electric for my hot water but its just a matter of time before i wont be...or at very least only use for part of it.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

elkhound said:


> one of them says hes hunting precious stones...he aint fooling me...its ammo for slingshot for killing food.....roflmao....:teehee:....i about popped a blood vessel when he drank straight from a nasty waterhole only to find a dead hawk and squirrel in a pool above him.....lol...$20 lifestraw woulda made it safe to drink.


 
Rock tanks one water hole isn't connected to the other one like a dirt stream bed.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

if i get exodus into africa i dont wanna foot snare a elephant with honeysuckle...i want a hunk of that amsteel in half inch diameter....then we can harvest him safely with our atlatl darts....we will feed tribes for miles man.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

bowdonkey said:


> I guess my definitions are different than most folks. He is no different than a few people on this site. I know more who fit the hunter/gatherer definition here than what's being portrayed on the video. Him and his family are setting up and living a somewhat self reliant lifestyle. Nothing more. And it's great, more power to him. His buildings are fantastic in my book. I would love to see his place. I'm jealous of the fact that in those dry climates you can scavenge wood. Here in a couple years all you have is punk. As an aside, I bet he had a hunting license! Don't ever take me wrong, it's a great lifestyle. I wish more young folks would give it serious thought. I might even divulge my trapping secrets to the right person? He-he! But I would never ask them to don loin clothes to be the real mckoy. Nor would I recomend any youtube video of these type of lifestyles as good examples. All of the folks I've seen rely heavily on modern society. What people have got to realize is they couldn't live their lifestyle independent of modern society. Without it they would fail. :flame:



if fuel dries up everyone will have a knee jerk reaction...its my opinion we are seeing right now but its desquised and most dont see it....when it costs more in fuel and up keep than you get on return for going to a day job its game over...its happening....its failing right now as i know people in this very position in real life.....thats when people are going to freak if they have to stay home all the time....they better hope and pray they chose a homesite wisely for what comes next.

i see what i think are very capable people on this forum we all wont fail we will adjust and overcome.

the trick is keeping or having or scrounging or bartering for stuff along as time goes on...tnandy will be tiller his garden for sure for a long while.

our modern society we live in has only been around post ww2....thats pretty short lived in my eyes.my granny who is 93 right now didnt get electric until early 1950's and gave birth to my dad in 1942 in her very own bed...people of today would gasp a hissy fit if they had to do that....lol


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

elkhound said:


> if fuel dries up everyone will have a knee jerk reaction...its my opinion we are seeing right now but its desquised and most dont see it....when it costs more in fuel and up keep than you get on return for going to a day job its game over...its happening....its failing right now as i know people in this very position in real life.....thats when people are going to freak if they have to stay home all the time....they better hope and pray they chose a homesite wisely for what comes next.
> 
> i see what i think are very capable people on this forum we all wont fail we will adjust and overcome.
> 
> ...



This post caught my eye. I was born in the late 40's and we received ''lights '' shortly after that. When I read this forum I sometimes am baffled in what people consider a priority if the SHTF. I can not imagine toilet paper even being on the radar as far as survival goes. There were 4 of us kids plus our folks and we never had water or plumbing in the house while I lived at home or after for my folks. Most days we used less than 5 gal. of fresh water. My thinking is the best prep ''tool'' is being able to separate ''needs'' and ''wants''.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

wanda its also based on location too.....theres old homes here that had running water before electric because it came from gravity fed spring up behind the house.

theres a old homestead in alaska i read about in 40's...it had hot running water...for free...it came from a hot spring high up on the mtn side...the woman had her husband and boys build wooden pipline to get it to the house....as time went on they made money with it as fisherman and such would come by to clean up and take a hot bath.

everyone will have a vastly different situation in a shtf as in daily life now....if i had a thermal spring...well you can bet i would have a bath tub and a bidet to clean my rump with it.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Wanda said:


> This post caught my eye. I was born in the late 40's and we received ''lights '' shortly after that. When I read this forum I sometimes am baffled in what people consider a priority if the SHTF. I can not imagine toilet paper even being on the radar as far as survival goes. There were 4 of us kids plus our folks and we never had water or plumbing in the house while I lived at home or after for my folks. Most days we used less than 5 gal. of fresh water. My thinking is the best prep ''tool'' is being able to separate ''needs'' and ''wants''.


Right on Wanda. But I still want lots of TP laid by. Things can get mighty uncomfortable in the winter here, even in an outhouse.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

bowdonkey said:


> Right on Wanda. But I still want lots of TP laid by. Things can get mighty uncomfortable in the winter here, even in an outhouse.




I like TP also but do recognize the fact that it is a ''want'' in a SHTF situation. It is a lot easier to think you can store enough ''wants'' than it is to see if you can actually do without them.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Wanda said:


> I like TP also but do recognize the fact that it is a ''want'' in a SHTF situation. It is a lot easier to think you can store enough ''wants'' than it is to see if you can actually do without them.


I think of what the Shackleton expedition went through. Oh man it had to be rough.


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

You bury your cool box close-up near the centre of your house wall (or a cliff, or a tree), so the east and west sun don't affect it much. Put it on the south side in the southern hemisphere, north in the north, so from morning to the middle of the day to the afternoon it's shaded.

Water: take your murky old water from the stagnant river, run it through a sand filter, put it in clear glass or plastic soda bottles, lie it flat on a rock in the sunlight for a day, and heat and ultraviolet will sterilise it.
Large-scale, stir a shovel-full of cement powder or even lime into five hundred gallons of muddy water (or 600 of the wimpy little shrivelled girly-man wizened-up US gallons), like a teaspoon of sugar in a cup. This will cause the suspended clay to clump-up (flocculate) and settle out. Then sterilise the cleared water. The water in the bottom, containing the settled mud, you can either use on the garden (best, as the plants get additional nutrients from the clay and the settling agent), or for drinking water for livestock, or pass it through a sand filter to get rid of the debris.

There is no need for an arid zone to be a desert. There are plenty of suitable plants and trees you can grow. Grow succulents and cacti relatives. Dragon fruit are good. New Zealand spinach or Warrigal greens are a succulent cooked, eaten, and tasting like spinach. Saltbush (atriplex spp.), particularly old-man saltbush, grow tasty succulent leaves which make an excellent salad or cooked green. Figs, dates, mulberries, ------ plum (this is the proper name, starting with Kaff, but apparently we are so overcome with political correctness these days that we cannot identify useful plants), olives, carob, locust, pistachios, and various seed-bearing pines are good desert plants. Citrus will grow and fruit well in hot arid conditions if they are watered. Peaches and apricots do well too, but require even more water. Grapes can thrive, particularly if they receive water only on one side. This gives them sufficient water to grow and mature a lot of fruit, but the dry side triggers the plant's drought response, and they concentrate a lot of sugar into the fruit, and mature them early. 
With adequate shade, you can grow a few hand-watered familiar vegetables, such as cherry tomatoes and chillies. Of course, the "three sisters", corn, beans and squash, were grown in arid areas with hand-watering, providing each other mutual shade and support. The soil under squash, pumpkin or melon leaves is well-shaded, quite cool, and will retain moisture.
If you have a definite wet season, possibly a monsoonal influence, possibilities open even further. Cashews are a good one - they grow both fruit and nutritious tasty oil-rich nuts. There are others.
Of course, you need decent fences, otherwise the desert wildlife will eat your precious plants.
Many acacias and mesquites grow pods of edible seeds.
http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/forum/desert-fruits-berries/
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-378.html
http://www.on-line-foods.com/tech_paper/P.R.Meghwal&M.M.Azam.pdf
http://www.aridzonetrees.com/AZTimes%20Trees/Tree%20Hardiness.htm
http://www.fao.org/docrep/t0122e/t0122e0f.htm

Goats and chickens are excellent arid climate animals, provided they have drinking water. They must be supervised, though. Both are vulnerable to predators, but also goats will go feral in the blink of an eye, and uncontrolled feral goats will turn an oasis into a sterile desert in about two minutes. 
The masai herd cattle in arid conditions. A few adapted cattle could give milk and blood, greatly increasing your dietary options. Cattle are quite good draft animals and adequate riding animals as well. They could also let you plough a few small scattered fields to grow small hand-harvested grain and seed crops.
In fact, supervising herders are not a bad idea. A goat herd, and his little sister watching over the chickens. Both armed with slings and bringing home the occasional rabbit or bird, and possibly the goat-herd with a staff sling as well. The staff is useful in itself, and a staff-sling is a fearsome weapon, more than comparable to a bow, accurately throwing fist-sized rocks that hit like a bomb at a couple of hundred yards range - maybe not up to a 45-70 or 30-30, but way ahead of a 32-20 - maybe say like a falling-block 44-40 long-arm. 
Maybe you could have a teacher with class overlooking the herd.

Use solar power when possible.
Solar dry excess meat and vegetables for later.
Solar cook (like a slow cooker) food, fresh or dried, when possible.


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