# Drugs & the elderly



## TnMtngirl (Jun 30, 2002)

We have had to put our mom in a nursing home.She had the sores on her toe that didn,t heal so her foot Dr sent her to a vascular surgeon.He did the stents (SP) in her leg & put her on Plavix,Norvasc,&Atorvastatin.All was going well & the toe is healing, then she has a fall,3 cracked ribs from that.Back to the hospital for 5 days.I had noticed her mind was getting a little off a few weeks ago before she fell,my brother & me had been staying with her 24 hrs a day since january.We were worn out & couldnt care for her at home like she needed to be.So we sent her to the home for rehab,now her mind is worse not just in the evening but all day.I will be going with her to the vascular surgeon tomorrow for her checkup & I am going to ask him to take her off the 3 new drugs,I think they are the cause.I have read the fine print on them & its all there confusion,hallucinations,,memory problems.Mom will be 92 in Oct I feel she will live just as long without the drugs as she will with them.We want our mom back!She was sharp as a tack 2 months ago,scans show nothing wrong in her brain.So it has to be the meds.


----------



## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

Sorry for the mis-information - I mis-read my drug book!


----------



## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Oh... don't even get me started.
For 5 1/2 years my dad was here with us.
I managed to turn Emphysema into mild COPD and kept him super healthy.. not even a head cold.
I treated him totally with herbs etc.. and all was fine.

Then he had a sodium crash and had to go to the hospital.
They turned him into a half dead man within a month, cost him his dignity by causing bowel and bladder failure etc..

Now he is in a nursing home (just turned 69) with a diaper and a catheter.

It is a CONSTANT battle over drugs.
He wanted a little something to help him sleep. (I suggested Benadryl.. totally harmless for him)
They went with Ambien. Then he got a dementia diagnosis.
I freaked and had him taken off Ambien and he is fine again.
Then they put him on this, then that, then this one, then another one.

And each and every time I have to research and freak out.
Exhausting. Totally exhausting.
Had to demand a Urinalysis to prove that the pain was a bladder infection. I was right. 
I could have easily treated it with some cranberry, marshmallow etc.. but they have him on heavy anti-biotic injections twice a day.

Sigh.

You have my sympathies.
Keep fighting the good fight.
Every danged day.


----------



## topofmountain (Nov 1, 2013)

goatlady said:


> It's most probably the Norvasc, which is an anti-depressant! THe other 2 meds are specifically to keep the stent from clogging up and to keep the rest of her arteries from clogging. SHe MUST have the Plavix to keep those stent open and functioning, but that Norvasc is a brain duller! The medical profession seems to feel that one IS depressed when one is/get older! Not true, but what do we, as non-medical folks, know! Besides it makes the patient more docile and easier to "manage!"


I'm interested as to where you found the information that Norvasc is an anti-depressant?

To TnMtngirl, 
It is hard to put your parents in a home. I had to also do it ( my mom was 90). But then there comes a point where they don't wish to go on living. My mom starved herself 56 days without food. She refused to eat. & that was tough. But she also had made it clear to us kids that she wanted to be without anything to keep her alive. We even debated if the Oxygen she was on, was a life support. Your facing a tough time. I will pass on to you what my best friend gave to me after going through the loss of his mom "that we would have to make decisions we don't want to make" If she has a Will or Trust then you need to follow her directions even if you don't want to. Sadly it is a process of letting go. You need to support your siblings as they need to support you. I hope you find a peace.


----------



## sss3 (Jul 15, 2007)

Had the exact opposite w/Mom. She was in hosp. Sis discovered; she wasn't getting drugs that were prescribed. I take that drug; it's very expensive. Think that's why she didn't get.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

goatlady said:


> It's most probably the Norvasc, which is an anti-depressant! THe other 2 meds are specifically to keep the stent from clogging up and to keep the rest of her arteries from clogging. SHe MUST have the Plavix to keep those stent open and functioning, but that Norvasc is a brain duller! The medical profession seems to feel that one IS depressed when one is/get older! Not true, but what do we, as non-medical folks, know! Besides it makes the patient more docile and easier to "manage!"


Norvasc (Amlodipine Besylate) is a calcium channel blocker not an antidepressant. It's used to lower blood pressure and/or treat angina.


----------



## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Before you do anything, ask them to give her a urinalysis as well as a urine culture and sensitivity. So often that causes confusion in the elderly. Please insist to have these done and if negative with no growth, then you can go about talking to her primary care physician about the drugs and side effects or possibly polypharmacy reaction.


----------



## topofmountain (Nov 1, 2013)

Thank you for the correction on Norvasc. 
I have taken it for years with good results & never read or heard anything about it being an anti-depressant. When I read that it kind of shocked me. In fact my Heart Doctor told me years ago it was one of the safer drugs on the market.
But drugs are so dangerous in my opinion. They can effect different people so different. 
Again we just send our prayers.


----------



## Nyxchik (Aug 14, 2012)

I agree with Jax-mom. I work at hospice, and one of the first things that is suspected with out-of-the-blue mental changes is a uti. Of course, the meds could certainly be the culprit too. Hang in there, and thanks for being an advocate for your loved-one. 
~nyx


----------



## TnMtngirl (Jun 30, 2002)

Saw the doc today he would not take her off the drugs,he says they are not the problem.Just that all she has been through the past 2 months has caused the mind problems.her toe is healing but may have to remove the tip of it later just have to wait & see.
Thanks for all the information & good thoughts & prayers .I will ask about the urinalysis next time we visit her.It could be her age,it could be the books on cd she has listened to for so many years,some of them are pretty wild.But I can't take them away she enjoys them so much.She thinks I am in trouble & selling the home place,when she calls at 10:30 at night and wants me to bring the law she is serious I feel like I really need to do it.Then I have to call the nurse & have her check then call me back.If this goes on much longer I will be in the bed next to her or a padded room.Her health seems very good for her age,she has lost a few pounds & don't want to eat the food they serve.Today she asked me to bring a strawberry milk shake & a hamburger,2 bites of the burger & that was enough.She did take the shake & a big piece of cake to therapy with her.& she is a diabetic but I say feed her whatever she will eat.


----------



## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

You know, my mother acted like that too, and was eventually diagnosed with vascular dementia. They put her on Namenda and Aristat and between the two, they've really slowed down the memory changes. It was happening fast, and I mean, really fast, but once she started taking those meds, it really slowed down. She's 88 and she's been on them for 9 years. Look at all your options.


----------



## TnMtngirl (Jun 30, 2002)

We have our mom back !The doctors changed some of her medications & the change is amazing !!! She is walking with a walker,has a way to go but she will be coming home soon.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I'd lay money on the Lipitor causing the problem. One of the ladies I work with started having mental issues after taking it for a few weeks. 

One thing that really ticks me off. You have an elderly (as in over 75) patient who has cholesterol that is a little high but they have none of the supposedly related cholesterol health issues. If that person was going to develop a supposedly related cholesterol health issue they would have had it long before. However, many statins cause other issues especially for elderly people. (no, I have no link. There is no medical study that will admit statins cause problems, even after Lipitor was linked to diabetes in women. I have heard too many first hand stories of the dangerous effects of statins.) But the doctors get their kickbacks for writing the scripts and get no benefit if a person remains healthy.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Danaus29 said:


> I'd lay money on the Lipitor causing the problem. One of the ladies I work with started having mental issues after taking it for a few weeks.
> 
> One thing that really ticks me off. You have an elderly (as in over 75) patient who has cholesterol that is a little high but they have none of the supposedly related cholesterol health issues. If that person was going to develop a supposedly related cholesterol health issue they would have had it long before. However, many statins cause other issues especially for elderly people. (no, I have no link. There is no medical study that will admit statins cause problems, even after Lipitor was linked to diabetes in women. I have heard too many first hand stories of the dangerous effects of statins.) But the doctors get their kickbacks for writing the scripts and get no benefit if a person remains healthy.


If a Doctor doesn't at least try to treat a disease that is high on the reference range they can be held liable. The patient can always refuse, at which time the liability is on them.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

A doctor that truly cares about the patient would weigh the risks and benefits. And they would give the patient an informed choice. Most doctors know elderly patients will not argue with them about any recommendations and therefore should take that into consideration.

I have heard of too many cases where family members or even the patient were concerned about the side effects of statins yet the doctor refuses to take the patient off the medication. It is a huge problem when the patient is in a hospital or nursing home where the doctor has the final word and the patient gets so confused from the medication that they can't question anything anyway.

The risk of statin use in elderly patients really needs to be studied more closely. That won't happen because those are the people who end up taking them most. It's a cash cow for the manufacturers.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Most Doctors do truly care about their patients, to insinuate otherwise is simply not true. All a patient has to say is "I would like more information, please" and most Doctors will make sure they get it. 

I know many elderly patients that will argue. Are you saying that Doctors deliberately target the elderly to pad their kickback prescription schemes? Which because the myriad amount of security checks in place doesn't happen nearly as often as TV shows make it out to be. 

No one is forced to take a drug. Ever. A simple no from either the patient or their health care advocate will work immediately. Any person, inpatient or outpatient should have a health care advocate, it can be a family member, friend, anyone that can look out for the patients best interest.

Then there are those state medical boards and other agencies that oversee patient care. If they see that a 75 year old's test result was high yet there isn't any indication that Dr. McDreamy did anything about it. Dr. McDreamy is going to get in trouble, enough trouble and Dr. McDreamy loses his license.


----------



## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

What I see in my line of work, beside kickbacks (which a doctor relative has schooled me on) is more often than not, drugs are pushed for the simple convenience. It's a lot easier to treat a patient than cure, i.e. using a drug as a band-aid rather than go after trying to find the root cause.

Very rarely do I find an elderly patient has resisted a drug - it's usually their kids or POA and interestingly enough, the doctors treat it as an argument. I actually like hearing about what they call the 'difficult' patients because it makes it more interesting.


----------



## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Well, Jax-mom, you'd REALLY like me! My doctor and I have had more than a few heated arguments over meds. Seems our main problem is, she wants me to live forever and I think she's nutz.

Mon


----------

