# Need advise on buying land without borrowing from bank



## shelralph10 (Feb 18, 2016)

Hello,

We want to homestead, have some chickens, garden, live off grid. We live in Iowa now and the land is so expensive. We have looked at TN, KY, WV, Northern WI. We have some time our youngest is 14, We are 42 and 48. Some people say to old to homestead. Any thoughts. We want something wooded with some source of water. Have a good day.

ShelRalph


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Welcome to the forum..

Buying land you have 3 options IMO:
Pay cash
Bank financing with a large down payment and good credit.
or owner finance.
Best thing to do is do some internet searches for the areas you are interested in.


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

Have you considered caretaking? There are numerous long and short term positions available. It could be a good way to get familiar with an area and the job market, etc. before you had to plunk down money on a place.

Many rural properties are not bank owned and will consider owner financing.


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

shelralph10 said:


> Hello,
> 
> We are 42 and 48. Some people say to old to homestead. Any thoughts.
> ShelRalph


Do they give a reason they think you're too old? Seems to me you're in your prime.....

Maybe the people saying that don't understand what homesteading is. I know some younger people with an interest in homesteading but generally people in their 20's are in college or starting careers and have too much student loan debt to have any choice about working corporate jobs. 

With those few exceptions, the homesteaders I know are 40's, 50's, 60's 70's and even 80's. Sure things change. Maybe you use a chainsaw to cut wood instead of hand cutting it. Or carry smaller bags of feed more often. Or take longer to get anything done as you get older. But 40's? You still have all your strength and energy at that age - it is the perfect time to get started.

Regarding paying for land....I don't like to be in debt. We lived frugally and scrimped and saved to be able to pay cash for our land. Since you say you still have time, now is the time to start saving for when you do find your perfect piece of land.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

shelralph10 said:


> Hello,
> 
> We want to homestead, have some chickens, garden, live off grid. We live in Iowa now and the land is so expensive. We have looked at TN, KY, WV, Northern WI. We have some time our youngest is 14, We are 42 and 48. Some people say to old to homestead. Any thoughts. We want something wooded with some source of water. Have a good day.
> 
> ShelRalph


Hahahah.. too old.. When we moved here to WV a little over a year ago, I was 51, and my wife is fifmmsumpin.. I get along better out here than most of the locals do that half my age..


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## cc-rider (Jul 29, 2003)

No way are you "too old".  I'm not sure what your question is, however. Are you asking about HOW to find land in those areas? Or if we think you are too old? 

If it is how to find land, are you able to pack up and go camping for a couple weeks in the summer? Or a few weekend trips? I'd want to actually see an area before I decided whether to pursue looking there. When I was very young, I had these pipe-dreams of moving to WV and living the good life. Planned for several years to move there. I visited there (albeit during a bad time...the 70s) and decided I couldn't wait to get out of WV. At least THAT part of WV. 

Do you know the websites to search for country properties?


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## Torch (May 25, 2004)

Refreshing to see a younger couple embark on the journey. If you have savings you'll need to decide how much to use for this purchase. Choose wisely.


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

You do not say how familiar you are with the areas in KY, TN, WV and WI you are considering. If not that much, I would start by looking at things that will affect your life outside of homesteading - taxes, availability of work (if you need to work), access to schools & universities for your kids, etc. Only you know what your priorities are but that will narrow it down some. Next, I would go on a road trip. 

We lived in FL and were looking for land in TN. We researched properties we found attractive via Landwatch, LandandFarm, craigslist and MLS. We looked at property appraiser data and Google Earth. Before the trip, we would have a good list of properties to go look at (we would drive by first by ourselves). We would rent a cabin in the area (or several different spots - depending on how much time we had) and spend each day driving - looking at properties, talking to people, making effort to visit local business vs. chains. We also would go to church. After a few trips, it was clear where we want to live. 

I was 40 when we moved, DH was 54, our kids were 5 and 3. Like other's mentioned, in our 20s, we would probably split wood with an axe but a log splitter is a whole lot easier on the back. I am sure we use more power tools than a younger person would but that is not a reason to not follow our dreams.


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## shelralph10 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thank you everyone who has responded with such kindness.I am not sure how to post to each person yet.

We have been to some of these areas.I know more about North east TN and Northern WI. I was born and raised and lived in WI til moving to IA 5 years ago.

Its such a relief to read how people homesteading in there 40's and beyond. 

Also the options to buy land from being a care taker, owner financing,to saving up. Thank you .

I would like more information on websites to search for land. . ...

The other issue we keeping in mind is the ability to hunt on your land and the right to bear arms.

We are willing to work hard and we don't borrow money for nothing. We don't have much debt except my student loans. We don't have s lot but we are content. 

Another question has anyone have experience with building a log cabin in a side of a hill.

Again thank you .

ShelRalph10


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

shelralph10 said:


> Thank you everyone who has responded with such kindness.I am not sure how to post to each person yet.
> 
> We have been to some of these areas.I know more about North east TN and Northern WI. I was born and raised and lived in WI til moving to IA 5 years ago.
> 
> ...


Then you have to save up and pay cash. Owner financing is borrowing money and there is no difference between paying a bank 4% and an owner 4% except that the owner financing property probably doesn't support the asking price or else the owner wouldn't need to do it.


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

Declan said:


> Then you have to save up and pay cash. Owner financing is borrowing money and there is no difference between paying a bank 4% and an owner 4% except that the owner financing property probably doesn't support the asking price or else the owner wouldn't need to do it.


Paying cash is certainly the best option. But there are many reasons properties are owner financed. Homestead properties might not have any house or only a very rustic one and are therefore difficult to finance by traditional means. Also, some buyers won't qualify for a traditional bank loan and having the option to talk to the owner/lender about credit history may open options not otherwise available when talking to a bank. 

When we were shopping for land in NE TN, we used: http://www.crye-leike.com/main/. Kevin O'Brien was really helpful and patient with us during our trips out there (we were also shopping long distance as we still live in Savannah, GA). www.landandfarm.com, craigslist and zillow.com will also all give you a good idea of what kind of properties and price ranges are available in an area. 

Enjoy the journey!


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

www.landwatch.com Lots to keep you drooling there... 

No clue about building a cabin on the side of a hill, but I wouldn't. My land is mostly vertical, hence the reason I call it Vertical Acres.. 

I wish I had more flat land for crops, or at least hay, but I have what I have.. My house is on a flat part of land, but all the water run-off can be a real issue during some harder rains. I still have to work to keep washes and culverts clear, even though this "homestead" has been here well over 100 years.

Also, I'll let you know now, "homesteading" is far from cheap, especially if you have to build, or fix up... People don't think about all the tools and equipment they will need...

Believe it or not.. it's much cheaper for me to buy eggs from the neighbors if I want farm fresh eggs, than it is to raise my own chickens.. and I won't tell you how much my farm fresh pigs cost me per pound to raise... because my wife might read this ... I can tell you, it;s WAY more than it costs in the store.. but at least I know what's in them... 

OH.. as far as hunting and gun friendly ,WV is hard to beat.. Last year my total limit of deer was 5, the year before, 7 that is if I could have gotten the right m/ combination and got my limits.. Being a land owner, you can hunt your own land and not have to pay for a license.

As to being gun friendly, hard to beat WV.. open and concealed carry, and right now, they are working to pass a license-less concealed carry, and a fairly good chance it will pass..


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## shelralph10 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thank you very much. A couple of strengths we have going for us. This is our dream and we will not give up,Second we have job skills to find jobs. I can work at a library like I do now, teach at a school or work for Emergency and Disaster Management. My hubby drives a flat bed but he raised bees with his Dad when he was younger and he can fix anything including cars, mowers, etc God Bless ShelRalph10


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## shelralph10 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thank you. We have looked at Northeast VW. Land is cheap.We know homesteading is not cheap but compare it with credit card debt, cable tv, internet, two cars and a mortgage on your house it's better than those things. We do have tools and we keep accruing things, We don't want pigs, cows, A garden, 2 chickens, maybe sheep not sure. Well we appreciate the info. Have a wonderful day.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Save some money and pay cash for something small on the edge of a rural town. Can find run down old homes with big yards in small mid-western communities all over the place for $25,000 or less. 

If you have the drive and some skills to fix it up, you could develop a nice little min-homestead and probably sell at a tidy profit down the road, upgrading to something a bit bigger.


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## spiritbear (Jan 6, 2016)

You're certainly not too old unless you both have some major disability that prevents you from doing manual labor. Of course cash is the best option but not everyone can do that and depending on your situation it could take years to save up the needed amount. I would look for owner financed places. Sure you are paying interest but the seller is getting the money and not the criminal banks. Our place is owner financed and will be paid off in 10 years. Our payment is less than most 2 bedroom apartments. When I looked at the place I told the owner we wanted it. We basically shook hands and went to the bank and signed a couple of papers and I have him a check for a down payment. Then just dropped by the county courthouse and filed some paperwork. It was very painless. Here in missouri you can easily find 5 acres and a house for 25-45,000 and it's a good and welcoming area to homestead.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Declan said:


> Then you have to save up and pay cash. Owner financing is borrowing money and there is no difference between paying a bank 4% and an owner 4% *except that the owner financing property probably doesn't support the asking price or else the owner wouldn't need to do it.*


That may, or may not, be the case. 


The reason for most owner financing is that banks are quite reluctant to lend money on raw land, especially if that land is mostly land that has not been in traditional agricultural production....such as forest land. That leaves the owners of such land with the only option of either finding a cash buyer, or financing it themselves.

Banks prefer to lend mortgage money on nice, safe, traditional type properties (home with maybe a small amount of acres, but preferably a lot in a subdivision) that they can re-sell in the event the buyer quits paying their mortgage. Banks want to be in the loan business, not the land business.

Farm Credit has been the one exception, being a company geared more towards lending on farm land, plus loans for farming activities....in other words, they deal with professional, traditional farmers. Most homesteaders don't fit their model either, in that most homesteaders are looking to build a home, and make their land support them, not necessarily by the sale of ag products. 

And if you do find a bank, or FC, that will lend on raw land, you'll also find they want a pretty good sized down payment....20% at least.

Then you have the issue of money to build a home/barn/fencing/well/etc....you've tied up your capital in a down payment to the bank, now how do you get started on all the stuff it needs to make it a place to live ?

Just like the OP said....Iowa land is too expensive. Well, *the reason* Iowa land is too expensive is you can FARM it. We bought 75ac in 1982 for $1,000/ac. Rough mountain land with nothing cleared, no utilities (not even power line to the place), and much of it near vertical. 

See this field below ?










About 3 acres (photo only shows part) and it took me almost 2 years to turn it from the forest land you see adjacent to it to some kind of pasture. That was with hiring a dozer to push down the trees, then me sawing up, cleaning up, picking up rocks, and so on. 

I had a similar 3 acre section cleared just recently on some land adjoining me that I bought, and it cost $2,000/ac in machine time, plus I still have hundreds of hours left picking up small rock, limbs, and turning the ground into something that will grow grass AND be mowable when done.....that last one being so it doesn't go back to blackberries, locust and eventually forest again.

At the time we bought ours, I could have gone on down the road 10 miles and bought flat river bottom land...for $4,000ac. Land that was already in production for tomatoes, strawberries or hay. Land that has a nice big river running by it you can pump out of for irrigation. Land you can drive a tractor over every square foot of. Real farm land, in other words....but 4 times the price.

We bought what we bought for several reasons. I thought the price was fair.....heck, I could have sold the timber off it alone for more than I paid for the place (I think the owner had no idea what the value of timber was, but it wasn't my place to educate him either). The property was fairly private, end of a dead end road kind of thing. The property is mostly surrounded by National Forest, meaning no one is likely to build close. 

But the biggest reason is that the owner would finance it. NO ONE else would, and with our annual income at the time being 18k (I taught school full time...12k and wife taught part time....6k), it would have taken use many years to save up enough to pay cash JUST for the land, never mind the thousands it would take to turn it into something we could live on.


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## shelralph10 (Feb 18, 2016)

Good day,

Thank you for the information. We will continue to save and go look at places. My hubby loves Northeast TN. I have only been there once, I love Missouri on the border by Arkansas been through quite a bit.Doniphan, MO that area into Arkansas. Have a great day.


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## shelralph10 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thank you , thank you for taking the time to write a long post. I so appreciate it. We are not totally against owner financing. If we can save up and but it outright. I have looked at some of the real estate companies mentioned here. I also have started to weigh the pro and cons of each State. Have a bless day.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

You are not too old to begin a homestead. Do realize that you may have medical issues as you age that may limit what you can handle. IMHO you should try to have the major work done before you turn 60.

The best way to buy land is with cash. If you can't swing that you will have to get owner financing, borrow from a relative, or take out a mortgage with a bank. The last one is difficult. I like the idea of borrowing from a relative. Set it up just like a mortgage but you pay interest to the relative. The relative will get a higher interest than they could get with a savings account or money market.

http://landradar.com/index.php?action=search_step_2

Have you considered MN as a place to buy land? The timber company, Potlatch, is selling their holdings in MN. This has driven the price of land down. You can find 40 acre parcels for about $1000 an acre. In most places you can get good, drinkable water by driving a sandpoint well.

Good luck.


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## Skarecrow (Oct 13, 2015)

TnAndy said:


> That was with hiring a dozer to push down the trees, then .... I had a similar 3 acre section cleared .... AND be mowable when done ....
> 
> I could have gone on down the road 10 miles and bought flat river bottom land...for $4,000ac. Land that was already in production for tomatoes, strawberries or hay. Land that has a nice big river running by it you can pump out of for irrigation.


Just curious, you destroyed six acres of forested woodlands to provide you some place to ride your mower?

What $ per acre has your time and effort tallied thus far and are you at the point where you are established or is there need for continued improvement?

I live on 3 1/2 acres of wooded land, buildings and codes make annual visits to tell me to butcher the flowering plants on which the bees and butterflies thrive referring to them as weeds given that no respectable nursery is involved in their existence.

I am astonished at people's obsessions with riding mowers and leaf blowers ....

Skarecrow


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Skarecrow said:


> Just curious, you destroyed six acres of forested woodlands to provide you some place to ride your mower?
> 
> 
> Skarecrow


I 'destroyed' 6 acres of woods to have some place to raise grass to either pasture or mow for hay for feed for animals which I eat. It may also be used to raise other crops. I'm thinking of sowing an acre or two in sunflowers.

That leaves about 102 acres of my 108ac still in woods, if it makes you feel any better.

By "mowing", I meant I can keep down the wild rose, blackberries and locust trees that were sprouting on the last 3 acre piece where the previous owner had started clearing it and quit in mid stride.

I don't own a leaf blower.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

TnAndy said:


> I 'destroyed' 6 acres of woods to have some place to raise grass to either pasture or mow for hay for feed for animals which I eat. It may also be used to raise other crops. I'm thinking of sowing an acre or two in sunflowers.
> 
> That leaves about 102 acres of my 108ac still in woods, if it makes you feel any better.
> 
> ...


Good reply!!!!!!
I'm in middle Tn. and you do have to mow, bush hog or cut it for hay unless you want a bunch of scrawny cedar and locust. In addition you need a fair amount of cleared area around your home to keep the ticks at bay!


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

Skarecrow said:


> Just curious, you destroyed six acres of forested woodlands to provide you some place to ride your mower?
> 
> What $ per acre has your time and effort tallied thus far and are you at the point where you are established or is there need for continued improvement?
> 
> ...


Where do you grow your crops or hay? Graze animals? Woodlands are beautiful but how do you farm (even on a small scale) without any clear land? And why would a zoning department care about removing flowering plants?


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

What he means is zoning is getting on him about letting his yard grow up in a jungle, and his neighbors are complaining.

While I think he ought to be able let his acreage grow up in any kind of thing he wants, I ought to have the right to turn a small fraction of mine into productive land. Butterflies not being a big source of protein and all.......


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## LuLuToo (Dec 19, 2015)

You youngsters are no where near 'too old'. We just closed on 40+ acres in KY and we are 60 and 61. (Are you kidding me??? We are THAT old??? How did that happen??). Here's a good piece of advice for you kids. If you follow your dreams at the ripe old age of 48, then where will you be in 10 years? Sitting there, enjoying life and living your dream, at the age of 58. If you don't follow your dreams at the age of 48, you will still be 58 in 10 years. The difference is that you won't be living your dream. 

LuLu


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## shelralph10 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thanks very much for the advise. No I don'think we are old, just some of the people we know think we are crazy for wanting to homestead. 
It's been my hubby's dream for years. I have always wanted to live a simple life. How are the property taxes in KY. How is the hunting laws and guns laws. Have a good night
SHel Ralph


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## shelralph10 (Feb 18, 2016)

Good evening thank you for the infromation. I did look at that website It has lots of land. Not sure if MN is for us. My hubby has a bad back, he wants to move somewhere warmer. Have a good night.

Shel Ralph


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## shelralph10 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thank you for the post. Have a good night

Ralph Shel


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## LuLuToo (Dec 19, 2015)

shelralph10 said:


> Thanks very much for the advise. No I don'think we are old, just some of the people we know think we are crazy for wanting to homestead.
> It's been my hubby's dream for years. I have always wanted to live a simple life. How are the property taxes in KY. How is the hunting laws and guns laws. Have a good night
> SHel Ralph



Not sure yet about KY-specific laws. The property taxes seem much better than where we currently live in Ohio. Just closed on the property 2 weeks ago.

LuLu


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

When we looked at KY, the property taxes seemed reasonable. But we used to live in FL so we were comparing to that.


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## Skarecrow (Oct 13, 2015)

TnAndy said:


> I ought to have the right to turn a small fraction of mine.


Without question ... and did you find it more economical to develop the woodlands than to purchase established farmland?

Skarecrow


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