# OK. There is no good place to ask this question



## cindy-e

but I need help, so I am going to do it anyway. Nothing is hated as much in academic circles as excellence. you can say your kid did well at anything else, and people will cheer them on with you. But this... this gets judgement. Either I am pushing her, or she is an uber geek and not well rounded, or we are bragging, or she has no life or... No, no, no. I am honestly, honestly not bragging. I just need help and I don't know where to get it! She is homeschooled, so the only school in the district that will do career or college counseling for her is an alternative school that is geared toward kids who need credit recovery or other things that do not apply to her. They are not geared up to deal with our specific sets of problems. So I don't have anybody to ask. 

suffice it to say my dd did really, really well on her psat. she is participating in an academic competition at NASA which, if she wins will allow her to go to Johnson for a week and work on some peice of engineering for the manned mars mission. She is doing well in the competition so far. Obviously, it looks good on a college resume to be one of 40 girls in the nation who gets this opportunity. But Nasa and Aerospace right now are not heavily funded and in terms of jobs and etc... this may or may not help her, though it certainly could help her with scholarships just because she won an academic competition (if she does). ETA: She is thouroughly enjoying this, and that factors in too. 

that said, here is the thing. She is also getting other opportunities for the summer, that she couldn't do if she got the nasa thing. One of them is a summer at stanford. We were even contacted by an organization that helps kids get scholarships for this program so that it would be paid for. Doing well in this program actually helps kids get into stanford. And up to a certain dollar amount (of income on the fafsa), Stanford is pretty well need blind. (Means if you can get in, you go for little or no money.) What's more, stanford has a legacy policy, which means if she gets in, anybody in our family who can qualify moves up in the admissions process against other like candidates. This org wanting to help her get scholarships for this summer program also helps with the admissions process. But this is not guaranteed. She could do the program and still not get in. But to do well at a stanford summer would surely help with admissions and scholarships elsewhere. (Assuming she gets in and gets the scholarship for the summer program.) So... UG. 

She can't do both. Which is better? Should she apply for both to hedge her bets figuring she won't get into one or the other? But what if she does? STRESS. I had a plan. It was a good plan. She was going to live at home and work and go to school. she had other plans. Also good plans. But I don't know how to help her right now and I feel like any misstep could cost her a lot of scholarship money. UG.

Help? really. Really, help. I need help. How do I find out which is a better course of action? 

Cindyc.


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## Maverick_mg

How old is she? When is she planing on attending collage, and does she want to go to Stanford? Does she have an idea on what she wants to go to school for? 

I would let her apply to both and see what happens from there. If she is luckily enough to get to choose between the two opportunities, then you should let her pick the one most suited to her over all path. It sounds like no matter what her age now, she should have no problem weighing out the pros and cons of each a making a choice from there. I like to make a pro vs con chart as it helps me to wright things down. But let her decide and offer her guidance, that way there are no hard feelings over her choice. The thing with NASA sounds pretty cool and I could see how it would appeal to a young kid. Maybe there would be another opportunity to work with Sanford next summer?


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## cindy-e

Maverick_mg said:


> How old is she? When is she planing on attending collage, and does she want to go to Stanford? Does she have an idea on what she wants to go to school for?
> 
> I would let her apply to both and see what happens from there. If she is luckily enough to get to choose between the two opportunities, then you should let her pick the one most suited to her over all path. It sounds like no matter what her age now, she should have no problem weighing out the pros and cons of each a making a choice from there. I like to make a pro vs con chart as it helps me to wright things down. But let her decide and offer her guidance, that way there are no hard feelings over her choice. The thing with NASA sounds pretty cool and I could see how it would appeal to a young kid. Maybe there would be another opportunity to work with Sanford next summer?


She is a jr in high school and she wants to be an engineer. either of these programs are great for that. Both are only available for girls in the summer after their jr year, so it's now or never. She has been doing the NASA thing for 3 or 4 weeks now, and she really does like it. Stanford is also on her short list of colleges so... how does she choose?

ETA The NASA thing is one week. Stanford is 8 weeks and she gets college credits. Unfortunately, the weeks overlap.


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## gone-a-milkin

Apply for both and then you (both of you) get to put off choosing for a while longer.

Maybe this is seeming hard because it isnt really time to pick one yet?
Just my gut feeling.

Oh, and you have every right to be proud of that girl!
Good luck to her and even if she ends up doing NEITHER of these things, it will still be okay.


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## AngieM2

Good luck - I had a daughter that through Duke talent search was recruited to go to college from 8th grade. We didn't do it she wanted to be more "normal". She did do the last 3 years of school via a correspondence course as school accelerated was too slow and dumb, according to her.

Just to give you an idea. She took the ACT once 32 out of 36.

But, she ended up not going to college, she wanted to be a mom = not saying this will happen for your girl, but watch for what she wants.

As to the opportunities - 
I favor doing the sanford, as if this government funding gets messed with March 1, the Nasa program may get cut.

But, for now - apply for both - one may not make it; 

Good luck to her and you, it's hard being Mom to a special education student that is on the gifted as there are not very many considerations for them.


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## Monica33

Apply to both. She can still put the NASA item on her 'resume' if she gets invited. I would personally have to go with Stanford. It would take her farther than one week at Nasa, but then again depends on where she wants to go.


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## cindy-e

Angie, totally hear you on that one. Right now, she wants to be an engineer. and of course, the decision would be hers if she got accepted to both. ETA I just want to be sure to advise her wisely. Not saying she will take my advice. =0) That said, she really loves this NASA thing. Lots of very brain stimulating work. Interesting historically based ethics problems. she writes at least 2 papers every week, one a case study, and one a technical paper. She has to draw schematics of something or other that she designs every week, and she does a really interesting (and deliberately tricky, though not extremely difficult) multi-step math problem every week. She is having the time of her life. =0) So, I guess no matter what happens, that is pretty cool.


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## halfpint

As an engineer who hired several engineers over my job career, I would think the Stanford would have piqued my interest more than the NASA program - if I had two applicants with the same credentials otherwise whose interviews went well. 

I would recommend that she apply for both as others have said, then make the decision once one or both is offered. Also, I got better 'career' counseling in high school from local engineers than my high school counselor, who for some reason was trying to steer me away from engineering since it was a 'male' career, but times have changed. If she can find some engineers locally that do what she wants to do, then I would suggest getting recommendations from them. One of the men I talked to was also based on a writing assignment - to interview someone who was doing what I planned for my career. 

There is also an organization called "Society of Women Engineers" (we called ourselves SWE when I was involved), that like to help mentor high school girls planning to go into engineering. You might check to see if there is a local chapter. Since I left work 20 years ago, I haven't been a member for a long time but I think they are still active.

Dawn


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## cindy-e

halfpint said:


> As an engineer who hired several engineers over my job career, I would think the Stanford would have piqued my interest more than the NASA program - if I had two applicants with the same credentials otherwise whose interviews went well.
> 
> I would recommend that she apply for both as others have said, then make the decision once one or both is offered. Also, I got better 'career' counseling in high school from local engineers than my high school counselor, who for some reason was trying to steer me away from engineering since it was a 'male' career, but times have changed. If she can find some engineers locally that do what she wants to do, then I would suggest getting recommendations from them. One of the men I talked to was also based on a writing assignment - to interview someone who was doing what I planned for my career.
> 
> There is also an organization called "Society of Women Engineers" (we called ourselves SWE when I was involved), that like to help mentor high school girls planning to go into engineering. You might check to see if there is a local chapter. Since I left work 20 years ago, I haven't been a member for a long time but I think they are still active.
> 
> Dawn


Thanks! That is very helpful. I will check this out. =0)


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## chickenista

I have the same troubles as you do, Cindy.
And mine also wants to be an engineer. He is 10.
I am oh so proud of him. And he excels at everything he touches or even thinks about.
But I get looks and comments from the other mothers in our homeschool group.
They resent how easily he learns and how smart he is and how much more advanced than the other kids (and the parents) He is excluded in some of the group classes because it is all way below his level. 
We had to try to keep secret his 28 hour course at the local community college in Electrical Engineering and Algebra.. it got out anyway though as the class was taught by a grandfather of another kid.

I find myself saying that he is 'not the average kid' a 'geek' a 'freak' because he makes the other moms feel really bad and a touch angry.

But ..... how do I find these awesome opportunities for him?
I plan on sending him to the local community college for high school. He can either do self-study and get a GED early or he can do the classes that get him a 2 year degree along with his high school degree..
But I would like to start building a resume now so that schools can look for him and see him whe the time comes..


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## cindy-e

chickenista said:


> I have the same troubles as you do, Cindy.
> And mine also wants to be an engineer. He is 10.
> I am oh so proud of him. And he excels at everything he touches or even thinks about.
> But I get looks and comments from the other mothers in our homeschool group.
> They resent how easily he learns and how smart he is and how much more advanced than the other kids (and the parents) He is excluded in some of the group classes because it is all way below his level.
> We had to try to keep secret his 28 hour course at the local community college in Electrical Engineering and Algebra.. it got out anyway though as the class was taught by a grandfather of another kid.
> 
> I find myself saying that he is 'not the average kid' a 'geek' a 'freak' because he makes the other moms feel really bad and a touch angry.
> 
> But ..... how do I find these awesome opportunities for him?
> I plan on sending him to the local community college for high school. He can either do self-study and get a GED early or he can do the classes that get him a 2 year degree along with his high school degree..
> But I would like to start building a resume now so that schools can look for him and see him whe the time comes..


Totally hear ya! I have some thoughts, but I have a meeting in about 15 min. Check back later, OK? My first thought is that he's gonna be bored in community college by the time he hits high school. Take a look at their course offerings... you're gonna find that he is probably not going to need most of it by then. I'll talk more about that later. You know, we can't help how our kids are wired anymore than anybody else can. what's with the animosity? I just don't get it. 

K. FWIW,
Cindyc.


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## cindy-e

OK so chickenista,

If you look at the course catalog and the AA/AS majors at a community college, you will see that most of what they do is designed for mid-level work - skilled labor. For example, my son wants to be a physical therapist. They have a physical therapy assitant program at our local community college. There is very little overlap between the two curricula. And at least one of the reputable universities with physical therapy programs will not even transfer in anything from the cc. The coursework is just not equal. For example, my dh took a full semester course in logic at an online college. My kids were taking a stanford logic course at the same time. Dh didn't even understand it, the concepts were so far above what he was required to know for credit in the class at the online college. Fully acredited reputable online college, btw, and considered a step above cc. 
We have a program around here that pays for 2 years of school for kids who can test into it in high school. Most people jump at it, because that sounds like a good deal. We tried it. We dropped out. They had a micro economics class that didn't have any math in it. How is that even possible? They had an english teacher that would grade down for sentences being "too complicated" that were absolutely clear and correct. But they used a writing technique that my kids learned at another university that the cc level teacher didn't know. she didn't know the difference between ending a sentence with a preposition, and ending a sentence in a preposition that is being used as an adverb, and is totally gramatically correct. In short, my dd was getting graded down for writing TOO well! She literally had to dumb down her writing skill to get an A in that class. Ridiculous! But the cc doesn't want to educate professionals who need to write really well, (and that sounds like what your son wants to do), it wants to funnel a lot of kids into the skilled labor level of the work force. That is what it is designed to do. That is a good thing to do for people who are not skilled labor, and need that or want that. But that is not a good fit for other kids, possibly kids like yours. 

All of the above happened while my kids were still in highschool. (they all are still in high school or lower). Instead, I suggest you use courses from the Teaching Company, from Coursera, etc... Read, read, read. That is what makes a difference on the psat and that is what gets the opportunities for juniors. You can also have him tested as gifted. If he gets in, the duke center that Angie mentioned or Stanford or a few others will give him coursework that will actually challenge him and help him meet his potential. There is a lot of good information on the hoagies gifted and talented website too. The MATHCOUNTS competition math program for junior high kids is a good place to start, once his is in 6th grade. that is one of the best things we have ever done for our kids. Robotics is also a good thing to get into with these kids. FIRST Lego league is good. Once you get into those worlds, (math competition for example) the people there locally can help you find the opportunities in your area that will help him to be competitive in the college admissions process. Then the opportunities will come to him. We didn't seek any of this out. It came to dd because of how well she did on her psat. 

Research shows that these kids are just as "at risk" as learning challenged kids. One of the big traps is that they learn that things are either very easy or impossible. There is no inbetween. In short, they do not learn to work for things in academics. Many gifted kids don't even get through college. It is very, very important to their future that they be challenged. by the time your kid hits high school, I very much think cc will not challenge him anymore. It will bore him to tears. Learning to work hard for what you want is a life skill, and regular academics won't teach it for these kids! They need more. These kids need the puzzle, the challenge, the question. the rote memory for the test bores them to tears. They don't want or need everything spelled out for them. CC is designed for kids and adults who need and want the rote to get the job. I am glad that CCs exist. If I were in a job market, a CC would probably be a good choice for me. But for these kids... it could be soul crushing! and there are plenty of other options open to them. Check them out. HTH. =0)


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## chickenista

That is an excellent point.
We will definitely have to have a look at the stuff at the CC.
Boredom was a serious issue K-2 before we pulled him out.

And there are robotics etc.. but they are an hour away in all directions, so that isn't really an option. So close, but yet so far.

He already likes Coursera, though he cannot officially be in. He still likes the physics lectures and history lectures etc.. he can find online.

I am hoping that as he gets older and closer to high school age we can find programs for him. 
There are so many things he wants to do and so many ideas that he has and his enthusiasm is so great.
I fear that mundane routine, classroom stuff and frustration or failure will crush that as it did before.


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## cindy-e

Oh and check out prufrock press. Also any math by ed zaccarro. Good gifted education curricula for that age group. =0)
google gifted education, you'll see TONS of programs that might work, administered by tons of colleges. =0)


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## offthegrid

I didn't read all the responses so maybe someone has already said this --
it sounds like she will be highly successful NO MATTER WHAT she chooses. Relax!! She is bright, interested in a career path that is often male-dominated (although I know that depends), and has parents that are looking at her best interests. No matter what you choose it sounds like you can't go wrong.

Does she want to spend a whole summer at Stanford? That's a long time to be away from home, and since she will have every summer for the rest of her life to be away from home - maybe not necessary to push it unless SHE is dying to go. What would she be doing there specifically? If it is *schoolwork*...again, I might not push it. 

I would not use job opportunities and the future of NASA funding as a selection criteria -- good engineers will be in demand. And, if aerospace is her *thing* and she loves it - there will be jobs for people like that because they will stand out.

Worst (best) case scenario - apply for both and then decide (unless it is terribly expensive to apply). Your decision might be made for you....but if not, I'd go with what your daughter would enjoy v. what it "will get her" in the future. Because if she can do what she enjoys, she will be successful. 

Good luck!


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## cindy-e

offthegrid said:


> I didn't read all the responses so maybe someone has already said this --
> it sounds like she will be highly successful NO MATTER WHAT she chooses. Relax!! She is bright, interested in a career path that is often male-dominated (although I know that depends), and has parents that are looking at her best interests. No matter what you choose it sounds like you can't go wrong.
> 
> Does she want to spend a whole summer at Stanford? That's a long time to be away from home, and since she will have every summer for the rest of her life to be away from home - maybe not necessary to push it unless SHE is dying to go. What would she be doing there specifically? If it is *schoolwork*...again, I might not push it.
> 
> I would not use job opportunities and the future of NASA funding as a selection criteria -- good engineers will be in demand. And, if aerospace is her *thing* and she loves it - there will be jobs for people like that because they will stand out.
> 
> Worst (best) case scenario - apply for both and then decide (unless it is terribly expensive to apply). Your decision might be made for you....but if not, I'd go with what your daughter would enjoy v. what it "will get her" in the future. Because if she can do what she enjoys, she will be successful.
> 
> Good luck!


Thank you. You make some very good points. She loves aerospace. She loves school & maths & being around people who love school & maths. She will love either thing. But needing scholarships is a real factor 4 her too. To be an engineer, she has 2 b able 2 afford 2 go 2 school. That is just a reality.


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## offthegrid

cindy-e said:


> Thank you. You make some very good points. She loves aerospace. She loves school & maths & being around people who love school & maths. She will love either thing. But needing scholarships is a real factor 4 her too. To be an engineer, she has 2 b able 2 afford 2 go 2 school. That is just a reality.


I hear what you're saying. I guess I'm just suggesting that absent a better way of knowing which is more likely to drive college scholarships - I'd go with what she enjoys more. Only because it's more likely she'll excel in something she loves.

But, if it's an option - definitely have her apply for both, that way if one doesn't pan out, she'll have another great option to consider.

My gut feeling is that if she could get into either one of those programs, she'll have scholarship offers to choose from.


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## jamala

I agree with others, apply to both. We recently toured the space center here in MS and were told that cuts were coming, so that NASA opportunity may get cut. I think the Stanford would be awesome and open more doors in the long run.


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## Lisa in WA

Hey Cindy-e, one school you might keep in mind is Pacific U. My friend's daughter went there for Physics and Engineering and got huge, huge scholarships. When she graduated, she was immediately hired by MITRE in the DC area and they are paying for her PhD at Johns Hopkins. 
Not nearly as high end as Stanford, but it sounds like you can get a terrific education there inexpensively and use it as a springboard for the big schools.


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## Lizza

I would lean towards the Stanford opportunity only because it is on her short list. We have a friend whose daughter has been leaning towards Stanford. She has been getting huge scholarship opportunities to almost every school she has applied to but will probably go to Stanford if she gets accepted (I have no doubt she will, she got like 2350 on her SAT's, she finds out soon if she won the National Merit). Not my daughter, friends daughter, my kiddo has never been a great test taker, the room full of kids is hard for her for one thing. Kids blowing their noses, the lights, people shuffling, she just deals with it but test taking is hard on her. 

As to the community college. I know what you are saying but you don't get a physical therapy assistant degree or a transfer degree, if your plan is to get a Bachelors you don't go to the community college for advising you go to the college you will be transferring to, they are the only ones who should be advising on classes, only they know what transfers and what is applicable. If you made the unfortunate decision to get a physical therapist assistant degree (not that you did) you would be wasting precious time with classes that would never apply to a physical therapist degree. When you use the CC route you only use it as a resource. 

I too understand what you say about teachers but honestly if they have problems now they will have the same but different problems at the university, they will always have classes they don't like or think the teachers are a bit of an idiot. It is something they just need to work through. Not that CC is the best route for all kids, it isn't. Our friends daughter took a different route that was much better for her. This is all about Homeschooled kiddos by the way for others reading. 

Kids do change their minds. I'm 41 and I change my mind all the time  BUT my daughter came to me at 13 and said she wanted to go to college at 16 and wanted to be a Veterinarian. She is 19 now and is a Junior at an Ag University, pre-vet. She leaves in 3 weeks for a great Internship she applied for (well, great if you are pre-vet! 140k acre ranch with 1500 cows calving and 150 goats kidding, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for 3 months, in the middle of nowhere Oregon). My point is, I think that high achievers need to be listened to and they know what they want! At least mine did, I never took her goals less than seriously and at the end of the day she knows the decisions are always her own. I advice what I can and help her sift through the opportunities but it is has always been her decision, even at 15 or 16 years old. Of course she is a force to be reckoned with but that is another thread all together .


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## Lizza

Oh, one last thing! Like my post wasn't long enough but she may try connecting with other pre-engineer students. My daughter has been a part of a pre-med/pre-vet online forum for years and it has been really helpful to her. I don't know of a pre-engineer forum but with some searching she should be able to come up with something I would think. Just an idea.


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## cindy-e

morningstar said:


> As to the community college. I know what you are saying but you don't get a physical therapy assistant degree or a transfer degree, if your plan is to get a Bachelors you don't go to the community college for advising you go to the college you will be transferring to, they are the only ones who should be advising on classes, only they know what transfers and what is applicable. If you made the unfortunate decision to get a physical therapist assistant degree (not that you did) you would be wasting precious time with classes that would never apply to a physical therapist degree. When you use the CC route you only use it as a resource.


Yea. Many of the colleges she is intersted in will not transfer the credits anyway. Long story. They only look at CC as a better high school, unless you do AP. We do use CC, btw. Just not for an AA. for us that is not a good financial deal. But there are a few silly requirements for some of the colleges she is interested in that are not already on our transcript, and we use the CC to get some of those, especially if there is an online option. (Psychology and geography for example). She had to take the dumb Compass test today. she made a perfect score. ... Now she has decided that she might shoot for a perfect score on all but the Essay portion of the SAT. I am sometimes glad I am not able to listen to the noise in her head. It would make me crazy and exhausted. But she thrives on it all. I blame her dad. LOL! =0) 



morningstar said:


> BUT my daughter came to me at 13 and said she wanted to go to college at 16 and wanted to be a Veterinarian. She is 19 now and is a Junior at an Ag University, pre-vet. She leaves in 3 weeks for a great Internship she applied for (well, great if you are pre-vet! 140k acre ranch with 1500 cows calving and 150 goats kidding, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for 3 months, in the middle of nowhere Oregon).


That is awesome! I hope she will let you post pics. Sounds like a fantastic place! =0)

Cindyc.


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## Lizza

cindy-e said:


> Yea. Many of the colleges she is intersted in will not transfer the credits anyway. Long story. They only look at CC as a better high school, unless you do AP. We do use CC, btw. Just not for an AA. for us that is not a good financial deal. But there are a few silly requirements for some of the colleges she is interested in that are not already on our transcript, and we use the CC to get some of those, especially if there is an online option. (Psychology and geography for example). She had to take the dumb Compass test today. she made a perfect score. ... Now she has decided that she might shoot for a perfect score on all but the Essay portion of the SAT. I am sometimes glad I am not able to listen to the noise in her head. It would make me crazy and exhausted. But she thrives on it all. I blame her dad. LOL! =0)
> 
> 
> 
> That is awesome! I hope she will let you post pics. Sounds like a fantastic place! =0)
> 
> Cindyc.


My friends daughter made the exact same choices you did, she took a few CC classes but held out for higher SAT scores and the National Merit, she wanted to start as a Freshman, hopefully at Stanford. She did her applying this winter to her schools. 

For us Marisa knew she wanted to transfer to OSU to finish her Bachelors in Animal Science and her CC was the sister school, so she was able to have OSU's adviser help her with all her classes to transfer over. She emailed her adviser which classes she was signing up for at the CC and then the adviser would email back a thumbs up or what to change plus she visited her a few times a year. The adviser also knew which classes to not take at the CC and wait until she got to the University (there were a few she said the CC class was better then the University). Very helpful but certainly not the right path for everyone! 

She has an Iphone so I'm hoping she can post us some picks! Although her professor told her she will be driving to the middle of nowhere, passing that and heading to the ranch, so I'm not sure on cell phone reception or internet reception. The Ranch manager had to drive to LaGrande to get on Skype to interview the kids, so it doesn't seem too promising that we will get pictures too fast. We will probably try to drive out to see her at some point. 

http://www.silviesvalleyranch.com/forms/SVR_Calving_Internship.pdf

http://www.silviesvalleyranch.com/index.php


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## cindy-e

ooooohhhhhh I hope you get to go do the spa thing. That sounds cool! What a neat opportunity. =0)

Cindyc.


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## meanwhile

Wow....wish I had someone to talk to years ago about this same topic. I am here talking from the "old Mom" viewpoint. Been there. Done that sorta thing.

My head is spinning and I wish there was a way for this to be a conversation off line and out of the public eyes. Let me try to offer some things to think about from a view further down the road. 

My boys are now ages 25, 22 and 15. Like mentioned above, we have struggled through the years with the boys working-living at stages far above same-age peers. With my older son, I learned some hard and painful lessons. People in grocery lines would ask me "get him to do that again" when my son would ask questions out loud and family would ask him to do "tricks" at family events. The Kindergarten teacher accused me of "teaching" him math at home so he was "ahead". My Middle son spent days and days in "detention" after he pointed out an error on a science test. He was also asked to leave a history class and sit in the Principal's office for the rest of the week since he already knew the material.......another teacher took away his "Tar Wars" notebook and used it for her own class material.......young son (at age 3) was found sitting alone in the corner of the playground after he correctly pointed out the drink served to the class contained artificial sweetners and he refused to drink it. They left him alone, sitting there and called me to pick him up for "bad" behavior after he said artificial sweetners were dangerous for young children to drink.......

anyway......it was painful........painful......we moved and started Homeschooling.....but that also offers it's own challenges. We were actually asked to leave one Homeschool group because the two younger sons were working "too far ahead" of same-age peers. Yes, asked to leave a Homeschool group! That was a painful round too. 

My 25 year old went to Community College early, then early to 4 yr college, graduated early and now is working and thinking about Grad school. My 22 year old son also went to Comm College early, graduated with a 2 yr degree from Comm College, started 4 year but "burn out" set in and he is taking "time off". Our 15 year old was a "drop out" from Homeschooling and just last year started a new group and thankfully it is working out. 

Sorry this is so long but I wanted to give you an idea of where I am speaking from. Here are my tips:

*Burn Out:* 
Burn out. Be careful about burn out. Smart bright kids often work harder and longer and burn out can set it. We are working through it now with our 22 year old. It is hard to find a balance between letting the students run full blast and fast......at whatever speed they want to go and yet......finding the quiet "down time" for them too. I would suggest planning carefully for "down time" in simple ways. Plan a family picnic or hike or a family movie time. Anything quiet, peaceful and that will let the student have "quiet brain time". Teach your students to learn their own body and mind rhythms so that later, when away from home, they will recognize when they need quiet "down time". 

*Same Age Peer Issues: * 
Not sure what to call this.......around here we call it "Public School Teenager Stuff". 
(NOTE: calling it "public school" is not meant to be offense. My sister says it is rude for us to call it that. I do NOT mean it to be rude.)
Students who think things through often choose to "skip" activities that some see as negative or counterproductive. Examples could include teasing, dating, buying certain clothes, makeup, early sexual adventures, group sports, fascination with music or movies, gossip, drugs, alcohol......the list would be different for each student. Basically, for us it was activities that at first glance seem "social" issues but, not exactly necessary. When our kids choose not to participate in some of these things, later they lack the knowledge of same and thus, have to "learn" that others are operating with a different set of skills. It is sorta like social "games". Our kids do not know all the "rules" and so they have to think more about it to get along in the social world. When we first realized we had "missed" these lessons, we decided to learn about these things from watching movies. That helped a lot. 

*Emotional ages:*
Be aware that students who work above their age, might still be "kids" emotionally. Protect them from others who expect older emotional behaviors. Just because a student can do College math at age 10 does not mean she can behave like a 19 year old. Let a ten year old do and act like a ten year old. She can still do College math but...help her be a kid. 

Be watchful when the students start Community College and go away to school. Our oldest was in a Dorm with 21 and 22 year old kids when he was only 18. Now...that was a learning experience! 

*Parents and students relationship:*
Talk. Talk a lot. Talk about everything. Stay close to your kids. They will need to ask more questions as they get older. Be aware that "teenager" stuff does happen naturally but work through it and stay emotionally connected to your kids. Let them know that no matter what, your family is there for them and will help them learn through anything. 

Around here, at our house and the family, we call it "The Pit Crew." The Pit Crew is for all of us. If our older son needs help with something, The Pit Crew helps him. If I need help with a project, all the boys are my Pit Crew. The Pit Crew is the family and we help all of us with anything. 

Good luck! I think it is great that you are asking questions early and often. Hang in there.


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## meanwhile

I wanted to add that to help select the best school match for a student, nothing beats lots of visits. Visit on the regular "tour" but also visit on your own without school staff along. Eat in the lunch room. Walk the halls. Park and just walk around. Watch and listen. Ask your student to walk ahead of you or alone and see if they can get a "feel" for the place. Can they imagine themselves there participating?

Once while visiting a possible College, my son had almost made up his mind to apply. We just happened to take an extra day that weekend to spend time in the town. That night, a ball game was at the campus and the whole entire atmosphere changed. We walked around, watched and listened and it was very clear, this was not the school for him. Things are not always as they seem at first visit. 

See if the school will allow the students to visit in the classroom. Ask if the student can spend a morning or afternoon going to class with another student. Visit the library and see if enough computers are available. Ask about "extra" costs. Be sure to ask and ask again about all costs and fees. Once you get a few answers, ask again. There are always extra costs!


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## cindy-e

Meanwhile... this might be the first time -ever- that I have really felt understood. Your advice is very good and timely. Thank you, thank you, thank you! I am going to print this and ponder it some more. 

thank you so, so much! It just feels good to be heard. 

Cindyc. (who also quit doing things with other homeschoolers most of the time b/c it was just too hard. )


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## meanwhile

Glad I could be of help. When we started Homeschooling there was only one Mom that I really "connected" with for a long time. She understood since her son had similar challenges. She and I are still friends and still compare notes even though our sons are older.

Hang in there with the Homeschooling. Try to find another group. My youngest son did not attend any Homeschool or any "outside" school groups for four years! I thought I was the worst Mom in the world. But, we kept trying. At first he refused to keep trying groups and so we came up with a "Plan". The "Plan" was that I would attend the group meetings first. I could tell flat out real quick if it might have a chance at all to work. Most of the time, I had to admit it would be a waste of time. 

If, however, I thought there might be even one kid that would be a possible friend, then I would go back and my son would attend too. We have a "rule" that he would attend three full times since our theory was that maybe one time could just be a bad day. Or even a 2nd day could be an off day. But, if after three times, he did not want to go back, we would agree not to go back. 

He did meet other kids and even though we did not keep going to the groups, he "visits" with three of the boys via Skype. 

Finally after years of alone time, he has joined a Robotics group and very much enjoys it and the mentors and other kids. It is an hour drive, one way for us and the class times are usually at night. Some nights we do not get home till 10:30 PM but it is worth it. 

Hang in there. 

Funny Story: One time (before we had the three times rule) I demanded that my younger two boys go to a new Homeschool group and give it a try. My older son just happened to be home and so he told his brothers he would go along for moral support. We all get out of the car and Older son just happened to walk up first to the group we were meeting at a park. 

Older son walks up to the other Moms, chats a minute while I was getting stuff out of the car, he turns around......waves goodbye to the group and hisses to his brothers to "get back in the car QUICK!" 

Older son comes up to me, gently puts my things back in the car and he says "Mom, don't even think about trying to talk to them." We left. 

Later, I met some of those Moms at another group and had to laugh to myself at how smart my Older son was to spare us the pain of trying that group. He just knew it was not going to work out. 

But, hang in there. Somewhere out there is a group and some friends for you and your students. It is hard to find! And....this is a hard topic to discuss especially in "public". Other parents can find it hard to understand. I cannot even count the number of times my own sisters have snapped at me and said "OH for heavens sake. Just MAKE the boys go and they WILL make friends." 

It is just not that easy for some of us. We wish it was and we watch with curiosity while it is easy for others. But, it is just not easy sometimes.

Private message me or send an email. I would be happy to help out in any way I can. I think you are on the right track to ask lots of parents for lots of input. Get a ton of information from many sources and then use what works best for you, your student and your family. 

Good luck!


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## cindy-e

Thank you again. =0) There is a local homeschool co-op that I have not gone to look at. Maybe I will just go observe. They won't have anything for my high schoolers. I can already tell you that. But maybe they will have something for my younger two. Sigh...

Cindyc.


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## skeeter

SWE is still around and engineering has changed a lot. There are a lot more women working in the field and it is very diverse. 



halfpint said:


> There is also an organization called "Society of Women Engineers" (we called ourselves SWE when I was involved), that like to help mentor high school girls planning to go into engineering. You might check to see if there is a local chapter. Since I left work 20 years ago, I haven't been a member for a long time but I think they are still active.
> 
> Dawn


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## skeeter

chickenista said:


> That is an excellent point.
> We will definitely have to have a look at the stuff at the CC.
> Boredom was a serious issue K-2 before we pulled him out.


We have a program here in California with the Community Colleges. High School students can take classes at local Community Colleges and their tuition is waived. They must buy their own books and provide their own transportation but it allows them to gain transferable college credits and high school credits at the same time. One of my sons choose this path and he had enough credits for an Associates Degree when he received his High School Diploma. So the work he did benefited him in two ways. I also believe that it provided a richer learning environment than I could of provided at home.


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## skeeter

morningstar said:


> As to the community college. I know what you are saying but you don't get a physical therapy assistant degree or a transfer degree, if your plan is to get a Bachelors you don't go to the community college for advising you go to the college you will be transferring to, they are the only ones who should be advising on classes, only they know what transfers and what is applicable. If you made the unfortunate decision to get a physical therapist assistant degree (not that you did) you would be wasting precious time with classes that would never apply to a physical therapist degree. When you use the CC route you only use it as a resource.


I would check with your local community college. Most credits that are transferrable are marked in the catalog with the college system that takes them. Locally, our community college has agreements with certain colleges and those colleges send counselors to support students who want to attend their university. This can provide a sure way into a school that in some cases you would not qualify for by just applying, depending on how impacted the school's degree program has become. I would at least talk to them and find out if they have any resources for students that want to move onto the university. I think this route works good for some kids especially where is a potential that they will drop out of college due to not used to that education system or if cost is a barrier since it cost less to spend the first two years at a community college.


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## cindy-e

skeeter said:


> I would check with your local community college. Most credits that are transferrable are marked in the catalog with the college system that takes them. Locally, our community college has agreements with certain colleges and those colleges send counselors to support students who want to attend their university. This can provide a sure way into a school that in some cases you would not qualify for by just applying, depending on how impacted the school's degree program has become. I would at least talk to them and find out if they have any resources for students that want to move onto the university. I think this route works good for some kids especially where is a potential that they will drop out of college due to not used to that education system or if cost is a barrier since it cost less to spend the first two years at a community college.


This is part of the problem. I already know that the schools she is interested in will not accept the cc credits. she did do some AP tests this year, and she took some Subject tests, also CLEPs. Now, we didn't do these for credits (because the schools in question won't give credits for those either) but to "prove" the level of her work. CC just isn't a good deal for her for reasons I have mentioned before. =0) For some kids, it isn't. 

Update: Anyway our income was slightly too high for the quest bridge program, so she could not afford the Stanford summer. She ended up doing the NASA program. She goes in a couple of weeks. It has been surprisingly good, though and has already opened some doors. This week she got an email from MIT. Anyway... FWIW.

Cindyc.


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## bourbonred

For us in rural areas, it is hard to find enriching opportunities for our kids. By 8th grade, my dd had learned about all I could teach her. CC was 1/2 hour away and the large city with enriching opportunities was 1 hr 15 min away. She scored well enough on her first ACT that the dean at the CC let us start with a few classes, and she continued building through high school. By the end of her senior level, she had 2 1/2 yr of cc credits, had a 3.91 there, and yet was unable to claim her dual assoc in science and assoc in arts because it would limit scholarship opportunities not being a freshman for college. CC was the only choice for us. Other than her last few classes (physics and Calc2) she humbly admits she didn't crack a sweat. She is pre-med and was planning on a chemistry major, but UL offered her a 5 year scholarship in their engineering program that will drop her out with a masters in chemical engineering instead. For her, everything in her college career depended on the scholarship. We've given her the best homeschool opportunity we could, but college costs would be on her. Med school is sooooo expensive, she needed to get through the bachelors for free. BTW, we were told only 20% of the students entering UL Speed Engineering School are female. (I teased my dd that this meant great dating opportunities, but she just brushed me off--she's all about the academics!) She's my only gifted student--the other 2 are smart but not motivated. Where I've always had to push the boys, I've held her back by her tailfeathers.


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## Lizza

I'm not sure your daughter is still wanting to do Med school but an option is a MD/PHD dual enrolled program, if she can get in of course. They come with zero debt and some come with living stipends. My daughter is trying for a DVM/PHD dual enrolled with the same benefits. I think I said this but our main goal was graduating with zero debt for the bachelors (and that will happen), now we are working on Vet school with zero or little debt which is just as expensive as Med school but without the money after graduation. She wants her PHD anyways, so this is a good option. Not that it is easy but for the smart and motivated it is a good way to go. 





bourbonred said:


> For us in rural areas, it is hard to find enriching opportunities for our kids. By 8th grade, my dd had learned about all I could teach her. CC was 1/2 hour away and the large city with enriching opportunities was 1 hr 15 min away. She scored well enough on her first ACT that the dean at the CC let us start with a few classes, and she continued building through high school. By the end of her senior level, she had 2 1/2 yr of cc credits, had a 3.91 there, and yet was unable to claim her dual assoc in science and assoc in arts because it would limit scholarship opportunities not being a freshman for college. CC was the only choice for us. Other than her last few classes (physics and Calc2) she humbly admits she didn't crack a sweat. She is pre-med and was planning on a chemistry major, but UL offered her a 5 year scholarship in their engineering program that will drop her out with a masters in chemical engineering instead. For her, everything in her college career depended on the scholarship. We've given her the best homeschool opportunity we could, but college costs would be on her. Med school is sooooo expensive, she needed to get through the bachelors for free. BTW, we were told only 20% of the students entering UL Speed Engineering School are female. (I teased my dd that this meant great dating opportunities, but she just brushed me off--she's all about the academics!) She's my only gifted student--the other 2 are smart but not motivated. Where I've always had to push the boys, I've held her back by her tailfeathers.


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## skeeter

bourbonred said:


> (I teased my dd that this meant great dating opportunities, but she just brushed me off--she's all about the academics!) She's my only gifted student--the other 2 are smart but not motivated. Where I've always had to push the boys, I've held her back by her tailfeathers.


There are a lot more women going into the field and it is changing it greatly. As for finding a husband there....ugh!! Good luck with that one. I know many single engineers (male and female) and I really doubt they will ever get married (for many different reasons and no disrespect meant).


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## skeeter

morningstar said:


> I'm not sure your daughter is still wanting to do Med school but an option is a MD/PHD dual enrolled program, if she can get in of course. They come with zero debt and some come with living stipends. My daughter is trying for a DVM/PHD dual enrolled with the same benefits. I think I said this but our main goal was graduating with zero debt for the bachelors (and that will happen), now we are working on Vet school with zero or little debt which is just as expensive as Med school but without the money after graduation. She wants her PHD anyways, so this is a good option. Not that it is easy but for the smart and motivated it is a good way to go.


There is also a military doctor program. They pay for your education and you only have to work for a short time with them in return. It is really a fair deal. But don't just talk to recruiter. Go online and find the program to apply. It is not simple since it requires references and stuff. It sure is a great opportunity for the right person.


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## ErinP

Another option: 
In Nebraska, we have RHOP. Rural Health Opportunities Program. It's a full-ride scholarship given to kids who pledge a certain number of years to practicing in rural clinics/hospitals. It's available to future doctors, PAs and nurses, if I'm not mistaken. 

I'm guessing there are similar programs in other states as well.


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## cindy-e

So my daughter is back from NASA. She has received a mentor for through out her high school and college career, and she was recommended by her tech mentor (different person) for the NASA paid internship program (cooperative education during college). That doesn't mean she will get the internship automatically, but it is a very, very good first step. 

Just reporting back.

Cindyc.


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## melissajean2000

That is pretty neat! Silvies Valley Ranch is in my neck of the woods.... Neat


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## Lizza

She had a great time at Silvies! It was really a once in a lifetime kind of opportunity and she loved every minute of it. Although it was hard work and basically no days off. 

We visited her and have never seen an operation like that, it was pretty amazing out there! 



melissajean2000 said:


> That is pretty neat! Silvies Valley Ranch is in my neck of the woods.... Neat


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