# License before you buy - What's next



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Ho Hum.

If I want a gun and I'm a criminal, I can get one within a few hours to a day - without any kind of check. The only thing this will do is keep honest people honest - and the price of unregistered guns will go higher.

This is sorta like prohibition. - The act or practice of forbidding something by law.

But then, isn't this part of the underlying policy of the democrats? Keeping us safe from ourselves?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Wolf mom said:


> Ho Hum.
> 
> If I want a gun and I'm a criminal, I can get one within a few hours to a day - without any kind of check. The only thing this will do is keep honest people honest - and the price of unregistered guns will go higher.
> 
> ...


Exactly


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## weaselfire (Feb 7, 2018)

Many states already require licensing to buy. Try to buy a handgun in NY.

Jeff


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I'm lost. Gun licensing systems have NC on the map. I have my CHP and still have to fill out the paperwork for purchases from a FFL. It's simple enough but how can one assume who "might" become a problem!?!?.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Who might become a problem?
Maybe they should check you political affiliation too.
Once I get my license so I can exercise a Constitutional right, I will also get my free speech permit and my certificate to attend approved religion services.
After all, freedom has a cost.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

weaselfire said:


> Many states already require licensing to buy. Try to buy a handgun in NY.
> 
> Jeff


Ever seen the surveillance videos of gangbangers in Chicago holding a pistol sideways at arm's length above their heads and spraying rounds indiscriminately in all directions?...Maybe they should require shooting lessons before you buy a gun and forget the license thing.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I’m in Ny and really it’s not that bad for us here 
I’ve had my permit for 30 years . 
You just have to fill out your paper work , pay the blood money and weight ? 
If you are not a criminal you can have a permit . It takes 6 weeks to half a year or longer now .
If you buy a hand gun you put a deposit on it . They give you a bill of sale and you then add the weapon to your permit . 
In 3 week to a month you get your paper work and you pick up your weapon . 
I thinkthere are a lot of people that can just go off the deep end over time . 
No permit will help with this , people are not 100% reliable .


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

But you have to keep your gun in your house. Useful for sure for home defense.

However, I prefer to have it with me at all times.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Wellbuilt said:


> I’m in Ny and really it’s not that bad for us here
> I’ve had my permit for 30 years .
> You just have to fill out your paper work , pay the blood money and weight ?
> If you are not a criminal you can have a permit . It takes 6 weeks to half a year or longer now .
> ...


Your opinion seems well conditioned


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

In Ohio you fill out the form for the background check, pay for your piece and walk out the door with it. 

The criminals grab purses or search unlocked cars looking for guns. When we got the weekly police report there was always at least one report about handguns being taken from unlocked cars or houses.

IMO, if a stranger can walk into your house or get into your unlocked car and take your handgun, maybe you should not be allowed to get another gun.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Wellbuilt said:


> I’m in Ny and really it’s not that bad for us here
> I’ve had my permit for 30 years .
> You just have to fill out your paper work , pay the blood money and weight ?
> If you are not a criminal you can have a permit . It takes 6 weeks to half a year or longer now .
> ...


For a law abiding citizen I would consider that ridiculous.

Subject two-The common street thug, or me for that matter.
I go to my local bar, sidewalk pharmacist, barbershop, plumber, and I tell them I want a gun today, no questions asked, cash in hand. I will have my gun. Really doesn't matter if it is Idaho or Brooklyn. Doesn't matter if the government just made it extra illegal.
I'm trying to think of a single gun law that helped anyone other than the sponsor running for reelection. I'm watching one of my pups chew on a rusty logging chain and my mind wandered. I'll think about it again later.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> I'm trying to think of a single gun law that helped anyone other than the sponsor running for reelection.


The laws are to wear us down until they finally get their long desired universal registration in place. Then, after that, they come for the gun.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Firearm and ammunition sales over the past decade would indicate that the American public aren't being worn down.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> Firearm and ammunition sales over the past decade would indicate that the American public aren't being worn down.


Do not underestimate the stamina of the long game.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I don't. But the American people aren't wilting. The activists are intense, the government is still pacing outside the door, but the plan isn't working.
Quite a few states going with constitutional carry this year, and they aren't the ones with the daily shooting numbers spinning like the wheel in a one armed bandit.
The are several cases that SCOTUS will be getting around to that may change the state of gun laws.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Danaus29 said:


> IMO, if a stranger can walk into your house or get into your unlocked car and take your handgun, maybe you should not be allowed to get another gun.


Did you mean that the way I’m understanding it? If someone steals a gun from you, you should lose your right to have a gun?

If so, how is that reasonable?

If you’re not secure with your social security number, and someone steals it and fraudulently votes in your name, should you lose your right to vote? If someone hacks your online account, and does something illegal with it, should you lose your 1st amendment rights?

Is the 2nd amendment a second-class right?


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

GTX63 said:


> For a law abiding citizen I would consider that ridiculous.
> 
> Subject two-The common street thug, or me for that matter.
> I go to my local bar, sidewalk pharmacist, barbershop, plumber, and I tell them I want a gun today, no questions asked, cash in hand. I will have my gun. Really doesn't matter if it is Idaho or Brooklyn. Doesn't matter if the government just made it extra illegal.
> ...


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I would say that even in New York, there is privately an increase in gun sales among those who publicly decry firearms.
The more felons and criminals created by the passing of laws, the fewer people there are to abide by them.
If Oklahoma made owning a firearm illegal tomorrow, how many millions just became outlaws while sitting on their couch watching Vanna White? 
How many will stand in line with a duffle bag of military grade bolt actions and assault revolvers to turn in at the white Costco tables set up in every town square or Dollar General parking lot?
The Felony was not designed to be a catch all, and used to eliminate a person's rights.
Buying a bag of left handed cigarettes or tax evasion make one too dangerous to owning a firearm.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I think if you are carrying a weapon you should be responsible for loosing it . 
I would not want to go see my judge and have to explained how I left my weapon in my truck and some one robbed it .


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Wellbuilt said:


> I think if you are carrying a weapon you should be responsible for loosing it .
> I would not want to go see my judge and have to explained how I left my weapon in my truck and some one robbed it .


I think it is reasonable to expect someone to answer for why they let their muffin tops push their 1911 out and in between the booth cushion.
And if you put your pistol in a locked glove compartment before exiting your truck because your post office, or cafe or yoga instructor forbids them on their property, and Goblin Gary steals it, should you also be liable?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Did you mean that the way I’m understanding it? If someone steals a gun from you, you should lose your right to have a gun?
> 
> If so, how is that reasonable?
> 
> ...


No, you are not understanding what I meant. If someone leaves their social security number painted on their car and drives around showing it to the world it will be stolen and used illegally. That's just common sense, unless you are the Lifelock guy.

Every gun owner has a responsibility to make every attempt to secure their firearm. You don't leave your guns laying on the seat of an unlocked car. You don't leave your guns laying on your coffee table in your living room with your front door open and you out in the back yard. You don't leave your gun laying on the counter in a restaurant while you use the restroom.

If your gun is concealed in your car and someone breaks into the car, you made a reasonable attempt to secure your gun. If your front door is locked and someone breaks your window and comes in and takes your gun from under your couch, you made an attempt to secure your gun.

If you made a reasonable attempt to secure your gun and it was stolen there should be no restrictions on buying another. If you left it laying where anyone walking by can walk away with it, you are irresponsible.

I've heard of guns being stolen at swap meets and gun shows. I've seen unattended booths with loose guns at swap meets and gun shows. People steal, gun owners need to make every attempt to keep their arms from being stolen. After all, you don't park your car in a bad neighborhood with the doors unlocked and the keys inside and expect your insurance company to cover your loss when it gets stolen do you?


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

GTX63 said:


> I think it is reasonable to expect someone to answer for why they let their muffin tops push their 1911 out and in between the booth cushion.
> And if you put your pistol in a locked glove compartment before exiting your truck because your post office, or cafe or yoga instructor forbids them on their property, and Goblin Gary steals it, should you also be liable?


 I think you need to secure you weapon . 
If you louse your Roscoe between the seat at the movies you are doing some thing wrong for sure .
I won’t carry my sig p238 on my belt because I can’t feel it on my side , my 1911 talks to me all day . 
It would be impossible to have it slip out and me not know it . 
I did see a guy drop a airweight sw38 and kick it across the floor at me in a grocery store. 
I stoped it with my foot and the guy casual walked over and picked it up . 
It did get him questioned by security . 
If you lock your weapon in a plastic glove box on you dash I do not count that as securing your weapon. 
I have steal lock boxes in my Vehicles Bolted under the seat. 
In a locked car I would think this would be ok . 
I don’t go where I can’t carry , recently I had to lock my weapon in my lock box to enter
ny Motor vehicle , thay had every one going thru a Metal detector like if you where entering a 
court room . 
If you guns are robed from your home from a secured area you are off the hook .


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Wellbuilt said:


> I think if you are carrying a weapon you should be responsible for loosing it .
> I would not want to go see my judge and have to explained how I left my weapon in my truck and some one robbed it .


If someone steals your car, should your insurance pay for it, or is it your fault it wasn't locked securely in your garage with the tires and wheels taken off and the battery removed?


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

todd_xxxx said:


> If someone steals your car, should your insurance pay for it, or is it your fault it wasn't locked securely in your garage with the tires and wheels taken off and the battery removed?


 insurance is totally different , you are paying money for the Insurance company to take your 
Responsibility and paid for your mistake. Here they assign blame to the claim 
If you weapon was stolen with the car and it was locked up in side I don’t think you would be responsible Of course they would not pay to replace your weapon.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

My point was just that there is a time when I feel you have done enough. If my weapon is locked in the glove box, and the vehicle is locked, and someone still breaks in and steals it, I've done my due diligence. I don't feel the need to have a safe welded into my vehicle as well.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

A thousand dollar handgun will run you about $15 or so on your homeowner's policy.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

A console or glovebox is considered by most state LE agencies as "secured".


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> I don't. But the American people aren't wilting. The activists are intense, the government is still pacing outside the door, but the plan isn't working.
> Quite a few states going with constitutional carry this year, and they aren't the ones with the daily shooting numbers spinning like the wheel in a one armed bandit.
> The are several cases that SCOTUS will be getting around to that may change the state of gun laws.


Complacency is the Activists' best ally


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Danaus29 said:


> IMO, if a stranger can walk into your house or get into your unlocked car and take your handgun, maybe you should not be allowed to get another gun


Maybe they should outlaw criminals. Or maybe if I catch a criminal in my house, I should be allowed to keep him.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

In NJ NY they want you to lock your weapon in the trunk of the car , I drive trucks so I have steel lock boxes . 
I never even considered the loss of $1000 pistol
I just never want to have that much Explaining to do


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

muleskinner2 said:


> Maybe they should outlaw criminals. Or maybe if I catch a criminal in my house, I should be allowed to keep him.


You're missing my point.

But if we are allowed to keep criminals, can we keep them chained in the dungeon?

I didn't suggest consequences for your gun being stolen when it is inside your locked vehicle when that is stolen. Which BTW, your auto insurance covers the vehicle but the contents are under your homeowners policy. At least it's that way in Ohio.

If you live in a high crime area and own a firearm, at least lock your doors before going out in the back yard to mow. Your gun does no good against a crminal if it's on the coffee table and not at your side.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Danaus29 said:


> You're missing my point.
> 
> But if we are allowed to keep criminals, can we keep them chained in the dungeon?
> 
> ...


I agree with the spirit of your point, but not the original statement. I agree that owners should responsibly store and retain their firearms, but I don’t believe it is OK to punish them for being the victim of theft. If an owner is truly negligent, there are already legal recourse and consequences. If you leave a loaded firearm sitting on a bench in a playground, and someone gets hurt, you’re in for some trouble- as you would be if you left a knife on that same bench and someone got hurt.

Which brings me to the scrutiny test I use when developing my view on any new firearm restriction: I repeat the text/idea of the new restriction twice, once with “knife” in the place of “firearm”, and once with “circular saw” in the place of “firearm”. If it doesn’t make sense with at least two of the three, then it doesn’t wash with me.

If you leave your firearm/knife/circular saw on a bench in a playground, do you hold any responsibility if a kid gets hurt?

If someone steals your firearm/knife/circular saw from your car (locked or unlocked), do you hold any responsibility if the thief hurts someone with it?


A lot of the erosion of our defensive-armament rights have been the result of placing firearms in a logical bubble where they are considered absent of any other context. That makes it easier for those in the civil-disarmament movement to compartmentalize them, and create special restrictions that wouldn’t be tolerated for other items- let alone items associated with a sacred and enumerated right.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Danaus29 said:


> If you live in a high crime area and own a firearm, at least lock your doors before going out in the back yard to mow. Your gun does no good against a crminal if it's on the coffee table and not at your side.


If you’re going outside to mow, good neighborhood, bad neighborhood, or The Vatican, you should have a least one gun on your person.


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## weaselfire (Feb 7, 2018)

HDRider said:


> Do not underestimate the stamina of the long game.


They've been at this game since 1934. 

Jeff


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## Big_Al (Dec 21, 2011)

When I first started buying guns in a store, 50 years ago, you walked in, payed your money, walked out with the gun you wanted.
No paperwork, no back ground check, no "waiting period", nothing. In fact, I bought my first M1 Garand ( a REAL "weapon of war") from Woolworth Department Store.
How many mass shootings were there in the 1970's? Per capita, there were as many guns in this country as today.

I owned my first very own rifle at age 10. My first shotgun at age 15. I never killed any of my classmates, never shot up the neighborhood.

The whole "mass shooting epidemic" using "weapons of war" is politically driven by leftists in government and their willing acomplices in the main stream media.
Remember - a socialist is nothing more than a communist who doesn't have all the guns yet.


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