# Ruger 10/22 takedown, shooting with a sling issue



## GREENCOUNTYPETE

we are set to have an Appleseed event soon and several friends are planning to attend , they all thought the 10/22 take down was a very cool idea and purchased them over the past few years. they are a very popular option for people who live in more urban areas and don't want to be seen taking guns in an out of their house all the time. discreet is nice. 

it is a cool idea but the take down has it's draw back and that is shooting with a sling 

they shot great from a bench , with the optic mounted to the receiver , but when you put sling tension on them the barrel moves changing your point of impact to be low.

if your trying to just use the factory iron sights mounted to the barrel the barrel shift shouldn't matter much , and while the factory sights are better than many , if they were as good as an optic or tech sights we wouldn't have the market we do for after market 10/22 sights.

mounting an optic to the barrel may be an option but that is custom drilling and tapping and a long eye relief scope or building a specialty mount.

this issue isn't exclusive to 10/22 take downs , to a lesser effect it can be an issue with any gun where the sling attaches to the barrel I ran into this issue on a AR-15 with a front sight tower and sling attachment , what I found on that was mounting a sling attachment point to the middle of the hand guard put less pressure on the barrel or distributed it better and my groups did get better.

why is a sling so important , it is a sold way to steady your shot that you easily carry with you and is easily adaptable most all shooting positions.

specifically in Appleseed it is taught to students to get them the steady hold necessary to score on the AQT targets and make them effective 1/4 mile shooters.


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## Bearfootfarm

I never attach anything to a barrel if I want accuracy.
I'd look at putting a flush mount swivel on the stock.


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## shawnlee

I would get rid of the scope.....


Open sights are plenty good to hit reasonable sized targets at the intended distances for that size cartridge.

Its all about matching the tool to the task.

I am pretty sure it was open sights to 800 meters on man sized targets with the M-14 and sharp shooting at 300 meters and less with open sights.

Shooting .22 LR at 400 yards it has over 300 inches of drop, that's like shooting.223/5.56 at 1000 yards...…...10 degree temp change of a butterfly creating wind can change impact from 10 inches to many feet easily. Making a hit on a 36 inch steel target quite a task, unless you count burning thru 50 rounds to get there as accuracy.


400 yards or 1200 feet or 1/4 mile is really really pushing a .22 LR even for casual target shooting on large steel targets.


Not knowing what elevation you are using this and at what temps and if it happens to be up or downhill, barrel length or what load.…….you are looking at best case 330 inches of drop to pushing 400.

I shoot 75 grain .223 at 1000 yards, which is very close to the same as 175 grain .308 loads, except it is very prone to extreme wind drift and temp shift......which is about the same drop wise as .22 LR at 400 yards, except it is even more prone to wind drift. At those extreme distances even match grade loads with less than a one MOA variance open up to 10 inch variances shot to shot firing if everything is ideal and each round is firing exactly like the last.


Given you are attending a apple seed event, I am sure you know some of this, but these ballistic variances can be very frustrating to new/young shooters, my recommended rifle would be a bolt action .22 mag or even a .223 for distances to 400 yards...with time, the proper skills,match loads or even hand loads you can push the .223 out to 600 yards with a good 12 inch or less grouping under decent conditions.


Pushing a .22 to 400 yards in a semi auto platform with a shooter new to long distance marksmanship is not going to be the most rewarding experience under ideal conditions. While you can still participate, weight your performance to avoid unrealistic expectations and do not be hard on the results as that really is expert level shooting under those circumstances.


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## crehberg

Pete, I'd check with a gunsmith and see what they could do. I have no experience with a 10/22 takedown, but I have had issues with my regular one in the past. I can't remember what exactly he did, but my "smith" got the barrel seated much better...and hopefully will let me squeak a few more years out of the old girl.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

we are not pushing 22lr to 400 yards , we actually tried after an Appleseed KD event couldn't even see where it was falling short the 22lr falls about 40 inches at 200 yards that is the farthest I have ever realistically taken one to.

we use simulated 4MOA targets at 25 meters 

building Expert level shooters and rekindling the flame of the American spirit is what Appleseed is all about.

Heritage , History ,Marksmanship. Marksmanship is the tool to make better Americans the real goal of project Appleseed. 

if you can repeatedly score a >210 out of 250 on the 25 meter AQT and you are handed an AR rifle you sighted in all you should need to know to be a 1/4 mile shooter is your come ups to keep rounds on a 20 inch target at 500 yards.

a AR with 55gr ammo sighted in with a BSZ battle sight zero at 25 meters will keep you on a full size AQT target to 400 yards 

the 22lr is a training tool a LTR liberty training rifle.

but since the targets are simulated 400 meters they do look surprisingly like what they do at a real 400 yards minus the mirage and the reason for wanting better sights the tech-sights give you almost the same sights as an M16 A2 similar adjustment and similar sight radius.

most of the friends that have the take-down 10/22s are in their 50s and starting to deal with reading glasses , scopes offer a single focal plane making seeing better.

the 25 meter reduce course of fire allows students to sight in once and not have to deal with hold overs or wind deflection while they learn the rest.

which is to shoot standing , seated , and prone to a 4MOA standard to qualify.

the AQT is basically the same COF as service rifle matches with the exception that we teach hasty sling for stage 1 otherwise the reloads and times are nearly identical

4MOA is conveniently 1 inch at 25 meters so much of the instruction is done on 1 inch squares on 1/4 inch graph paper 

taking 22lr out past 100 meters is not worth it much of the ammo is not 1moa to start even some of the better stuff and when the round goes trans sonic it gets really frustrating especially with wind.

while you can do the AQT with a bolt action it can prove additionally frustrating , I did my first rifleman score with a bolt stage 1 is 2 minutes simulating a 100 yard target standing , stage 2 is 55 seconds transition to seated with a reload , stage 3 is 65 seconds transition to prone with a reload and stage 4 is 5 minutes slow fire prone.

part of why most LTRs are built on a 10 round semi auto rifle platform typically the Ruger 10/22 or marlin 795.


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## shawnlee

Nice...was not familiar with the specifics, sounds like the great program I thought it was. Have heard nothing but good things !


I totally get the hard to see thing as I am in the same boat too....lol

So to sum up my long dissertation….I have no helpful info...….


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

ON


Bearfootfarm said:


> I never attach anything to a barrel if I want accuracy.
> I'd look at putting a flush mount swivel on the stock.


 on the take down the forearm of the stock is attached to the barrel, the for stock and barrel fasten to the receiver with a twist and a tighten and why it flexes


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## Bearfootfarm

shawnlee said:


> I am pretty sure it was *open sights to 800 meters on man sized targets* with the M-14 and sharp shooting at 300 meters and less with open sights.


That's usually a bunch of young guys shooting at an 18 X 24 target as opposed to mostly older people trying for both speed and precision.

Even then military has come to realize optical sights are far superior.

It's the sling location that is the problem here.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

shawnlee said:


> Nice...was not familiar with the specifics, sounds like the great program I thought it was. Have heard nothing but good things !
> 
> 
> I totally get the hard to see thing as I am in the same boat too....lol
> 
> So to sum up my long dissertation….I have no helpful info...….


it is all good , I am aspiring to get out past 500 , but for that I plan to use more than just a rifle and a sling probably a bi-pod or bags , just got my 20moa scope base installed today 880 yards an even half mile is my goal it is a 308 bolt gun heavy 24 inch barrel.

I have to wait for the corn to come down to shoot any further than 200 right now so I am getting a load worked up and then will play when the corn comes down.


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## Bearfootfarm

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> on the take down the forearm of the stock is attached to the barrel, the for stock and barrel fasten to the receiver with a twist and a tighten and why it flexes


I that case I'd use a different rifle or forget about using the sling as a brace.

Another alternative would be to mount the sling as close as possible to the receiver to minimize flexing, but that won't carry as well.

A take down with optics on the receiver will seldom be as consistently accurate as a fixed free floating barrel.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I think they decided to go buy a normal 10/22 they really liked the tech-sights when they tried them. they are 50 year old men with good jobs and no kids a 200 dollar rifle as they put it will cost about what running their ARs for the weekend which is a solid option you can run center fire in appleseed.

Appleseed focuses strongly on the sling and that is why they are attending the appleseed , they have seen it work in the club service rifle shoot and want to work it also.

they have all been shooting a long time , one was a law enforcement training instructor some years back.


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## GunMonkeyIntl

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I think they decided to go buy a normal 10/22 they really liked the tech-sights when they tried them. they are 50 year old men with good jobs and no kids a 200 dollar rifle as they put it will cost about what running their ARs for the weekend which is a solid option you can run center fire in appleseed.
> 
> Appleseed focuses strongly on the sling and that is why they are attending the appleseed , they have seen it work in the club service rifle shoot and want to work it also.
> 
> they have all been shooting a long time , one was a law enforcement training instructor some years back.


A standard 10-22 will probably have the same problem- maybe only to a lesser extent. You generally eliminate the issue in a NM rifle by running a floating handguard. The standard 10-22 could be floated, but you'd also have to remove the barrel band. 

If you've seen standard 10-22s do well but the take-down do poorly, it might just be a matter of that extra gap between the forend and center-section. Maybe jam a shim in there and see if it does as well as the standard one. 

If not, try an extra long sling and mount a stud on the front of the center section.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

the standard will hold the 4moa necessary to complete the Appleseed COF.

the solid stock and barrel band do not seem to be an issue even with the barrel band it likely stays rigid enough to be a non issue, many hundreds of standard 10/22 have been used to score rifleman at Appleseed events all over the country. 

but the stock forward of the mag well on the take down is only attached to the barrel. I saw one shooter coming very close with the factory irons and a take down 10/22 but he didn't manage by the end of the weekend , watching his shooting I think had he been handed a standard , deluxe or target with tech-sights or optic Sunday morning he would have made it.

a shim or wedge might help some on the take down I think it would be great if someone made a replacement stock that would allow the take down barrel to attach to the receiver but not touch the stock . if it resolved the issue would be worth it at a reasonable price 

I think a deluxe stock could be made to work if you could mill out for the barrel attachment. 
I don't have a take down to look at but I think something could be made for a stock to work.


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