# food stamps $78 a month



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Fellow down the road late 60's Im guessing, just got food stamps through the senior center. Our senior center helped people apply for any benefits they might be eligible for. Anyway this man is going to get $78 a month in food stamps. He didnt qualify for anything else. 

If you had no other money just $78 a month for food what would you buy?


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## pmondo (Oct 6, 2007)

beans and rice


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

The name of the food assistance program is SNAP - Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program. With the key word being SUPPLEMENTAL. But people get it in their heads that's their only food money, any other money has to go for something else. The $78 is supposed to increase his food budget, not be his entire food budget. 

But if I only had $78 a month to feed myself, it would be heavy on beans and cornbread. And bargain meat with bones in it to make broth and double down on all the nutrition it has to offer.


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## COSunflower (Dec 4, 2006)

Beans, potatoes and frozen vegetables!!!


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

Food stamps are supposed to be supplemental as previously mentioned. But in the spirit of the thread, I'll play. 



COSunflower said:


> Beans, potatoes and frozen vegetables!!!


I agree. I'd add rice, cheap breakfast cereal plus eggs and milk when on sale. Last week eggs were $1.00 a dozen at a local grocery and milk was $1.99 a gallon so I stocked up. Eggs last for months in the fridge and milk can be frozen. 

Also don't forget the Dollar Stores. 

At Dollar Tree this past week (all $1.00):
2 lbs. pinto beans
2 lbs. rice
24 oz pasta
10 oz package of meatballs (chop these up in pasta sauce to stretch them)
large can pasta sauce
bag of breakfast cereal
several varieties of 1 lb pack of frozen vegetables 
1 doz medium eggs
large can of bologna
American cheese
small jars of peanut butter
bread

With the addition of milk on sale from elsewhere and this would end up around $15.00 for over a week's worth of eating (10 days for some items) which would include 2 servings of vegetables a day. That leaves a little extra left over for fruit and fresh vegetables. 

Your friend would stretch his budget by also going to a food pantry once or twice a month. The one I used to work at gave out a box of canned and packaged goods that amounted to 5 days of food for one person.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Beans, rice and garden seed.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I was thinking bean rice and the sauce type of season packs like gravy. We dont have a dollar tree we do have a save a lot about 24 miles away. Milk was $3.69 this week. 
Mr. Folyed was saying he didnt know if it would pay well to drive that far and spend more on gas to make it worth his while for $78 maybe he would go shopping every other month. 
I was surprised to hear the senior center had DHHR come in to tell seniors what they might be able to get.


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## Ellendra (Jul 31, 2013)

Potatoes
Tomatoes
Carrots
Peas
Eggs
Milk
Chicken (probably frozen)
Bullion cubes

You can make a lot of meals from that.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

78 a month I would buy bulk oatmeal and rice.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

pmondo said:


> beans and rice


You'll need some lard for those beans, and probably some margarine for the rice. Each are around $1/lb and will do you diet a lot of good. I would probably add potatoes & margarine too.



MO_cows said:


> The $78 is supposed to increase his food budget, not be his entire food budget.


I'm not sure what your point is. Is your point that people aren't supposed to be that poor?


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## tamarackreg (Mar 13, 2006)

- ammo appropriate for local / legal wildlife
- snares 
- fishing stuff (all set there for quite a while, lol)
- garden seeds
- local wild edible info
- goats


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

I'd forage in my backyard and eat weeds.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Quiz QUESTION:

The food stamp program was created to HELP.....*WHO.*......????


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Sourdough said:


> Quiz QUESTION:
> 
> The food stamp program was created to HELP.....*WHO.*......????


People without food or a means of paying for it.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

FOLLOW-UP Quiz Question:

If the Food Stamp program was abolished tomorrow who would suffer the most........???


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

That is what nearly everyone thinks........but it is not accurate.



Heritagefarm said:


> People without food or a means of paying for it.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Sourdough said:


> That is what nearly everyone thinks........but it is not accurate.


Not according to some. It is what I think though.



Sourdough said:


> FOLLOW-UP Quiz Question:
> 
> If the Food Stamp program was abolished tomorrow who would suffer the most........???


What do you think? Mostly poor people.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Heritagefarm said:


> Not according to some. It is what I think though.
> *
> YOU think what you are told to think, And snookered in to thinking that it is your wisdom/intelligence that caused that conclusion.*
> 
> ...


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Sourdough said:


> Quiz QUESTION:
> 
> The food stamp program was created to HELP.....*WHO.*......????


It was created to help hungry folks, but it was expanded to help corporation's.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Sourdough said:


> Heritagefarm said:
> 
> 
> > Not according to some. It is what I think though.
> ...


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

I remember exactly what the reason was for the creation of the Food Stamp Program.

I guarantee you that of all the groups in America that had and continue to have influence on government, the poor people were at the bottom of the list, if they were even on the list.

The Food Stamp Program was created as a way to help the farmers........

http://www.snaptohealth.org/snap/the-history-of-snap/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplemental_Nutrition_Assistance_Program


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Sourdough said:


> I was a young adult in the early to mid 60's having runaway at age 15, never to return home. I got Legal Emancipation. I remember exactly what the reason was for the creation of the Food Stamp Program.
> 
> I guarantee you that of all the groups in America that had and continue to have influence on government, the poor people were at the bottom of the list, if they were even on the list.


Then kindly elaborate without your quizlets...


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

It was created because farmers had no market for their excess crops. It was and continues to be a gift, a subsidy to help the farmers. (A *subsidy* is a form of financial aid or support extended to an economic sector or business)

http://www.snaptohealth.org/snap/the-history-of-snap/



coolrunnin said:


> It was created to help hungry folks, but it was expanded to help corporation's.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Sourdough said:


> It was created because farmers had no market for their excess crops. It was and continues to be a gift, a subsidy to help the farmers. (A *subsidy* is a form of financial aid or support extended to an economic sector or business)
> 
> http://www.snaptohealth.org/snap/the-history-of-snap/


I can't see snap benefiting farmers today, or when first implemented. 

Now commodities on the other hand, yea I'll agree that was direct help to the farmers.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Sourdough said:


> It was created because farmers had no market for their excess crops. It was and continues to be a gift, a subsidy to help the farmers. (A *subsidy* is a form of financial aid or support extended to an economic sector or business)
> 
> http://www.snaptohealth.org/snap/the-history-of-snap/


That may just be a consequence. Farm subsidies were also created - these are given directly to farmers, while food stamps simply make it easier for people to buy food, ergo farmers sell more food.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

It is interesting that people believe what they want.......even in the face of over whelming recorded facts to the contrary.

*1933*








FDR signing the Agricultural Adjustment Act in 1933.

The foundation for SNAP was first built in 1933 as part of the Agricultural Adjustment Act (AAA). *The program, referred to as the Federal Surplus Relief Corporation, was established in the midst of the Great Depression, when prices for crops fell dramatically and farms across America were struggling to deal with the excess supply. To support farmers*, the Federal government bought basic farm commodities at discount prices and distributed them among hunger relief agencies in states and local communities.


*1964*








Isabelle Kelley, the principal author of the Food Stamp Act of 1964.

In 1964, The Food Stamp Act (P.L. 88-525) was passed as a part of President Lyndon Johnson&#8217;s Great Society Program. Ms. Isabelle M. Kelley, the principal author of the Food Stamp Act of 1964, also served as the first Director of the Food Stamp Program.* The goal of this initiative was to achieve a more effective use of agricultural overproduction,*







coolrunnin said:


> I can't see snap benefiting farmers today,* or when first implemented*.
> 
> Now commodities on the other hand, yea I'll agree that was direct help to the farmers.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Ummm dude, on the commodities I agreed with you.
The reincarnation of snap isn't for the farmers, it's for the food corps.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Use the money to buy ammo and harvest polititions:grin:


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## tamarackreg (Mar 13, 2006)

Sourdough said:


> FOLLOW-UP Quiz Question:
> 
> If the Food Stamp program was abolished tomorrow who would suffer the most........???


The politicians who promote themselves on the back of the tax payers.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Nevada said:


> You'll need some lard for those beans, and probably some margarine for the rice. Each are around $1/lb and will do you diet a lot of good. I would probably add potatoes & margarine too.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what your point is. Is your point that people aren't supposed to be that poor?


It wasn't mentioned in the OP that the person was starving or not eating enough before they got the SNAP card. But as soon as it was awarded, the automatic assumption was that the $78 SNAP amount was the entire grocery budget. Which is false. 

The subject in the OP must be quite low income to get $78 for a single person. So that will free up some of their other money for other needs. But still won't buy toiletries and other necessities.

There will always be poor people. Some thru circumstances out of their control, some from poor choices, but some will always be poor. The war on poverty is no more winnable than the war on drugs.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Im on a short budget I know I sure could use the help but I make $3.00 too much, go figure. I sure can tell when food prices go up. I cant add money to my food budget I have to buy less food. (just like when gas prices go up)Where I live we have one food lion, dollar general, family dollar, 24 miles away is a save a lot and family dollar. Thats it for food shopping. I read in the paper they offer food stamps coupons to use at the farmers market but the prices are so high, I know its nice fresh fruit and vegis but I sure cant afford to buy one peach for $1.30 . Lots of people even if they live in the woods cant hunt and fish for all kinds of reasons, health or leagle . I cant hunt on my land. And if I could I could not physically clean and store a deer. I took a lady to the food bank not too long ago(USDA) she got no meat, she got 2 can corn,4 can fruit, 2 can spegittisauce, 2 packs mac, 4 snack size donuts, PB. thats it. Then I hear of people selling the food benefits.


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

If I knew of people who've been backed into a budget that limited, I'd personally go to the managers of local groceries, explain the general circumstances, and ask if their store had ways to cut some slack for such folks. If they already contribute surplus to local soup kitchens or food banks, and only one or two individuals were on my radar, I'd ask if some fractional amount of their usual donations could be diverted: dented cans, bruised veggies, expiring-date meats. Sometimes a rather token payment for bar coded expiring packaged meats like sausage chubs might help the manager's performance rating out. A couple years ago, I took a few minutes to discuss policies with a local Safeway manager who told me that all their system tracked was whether something (1 lb sausage packs in fact, in this case) were ultimately sold for anything; full price, 50% off, 75% off (day of expiry special) were all the same for him but having to pitch anything the moment of expiration was a negative for his tracked performance numbers. If you're in a more populated area with truly competing stores including a Wal-Mart, IF yours still does ad price matching (apparently they've eliminated the policy at a couple chunks of several hundred locations at a time recently), going over the local ads then hitting Wally for produce they'll match on can be a huge savings and yield better quality than that advertised. The more rural you are, the further it is to more widely-spaced grocery sources, the more important disciplining yourself to garden, hunt, keep goats, and such, would be. Asking neighbors if unharvested produce and fruit trees can be gleaned would be a good idea, also.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

MO_cows said:


> It wasn't mentioned in the OP that the person was starving or not eating enough before they got the SNAP card. But as soon as it was awarded, the automatic assumption was that the $78 SNAP amount was the entire grocery budget. Which is false.
> 
> The subject in the OP must be quite low income to get $78 for a single person. So that will free up some of their other money for other needs. But still won't buy toiletries and other necessities.
> 
> There will always be poor people. Some thru circumstances out of their control, some from poor choices, but some will always be poor. The war on poverty is no more winnable than the war on drugs.


The number is extremely low. Most people can easily get $180 when their income drops. So the person may be receiving a proportionate amount of income that offsets the FS amount, disability, SS, etc.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Forcast said:


> If you had no other money just $78 a month for food what would you buy?


Its called *SUPPLEMENTAL* Nutrition Assistance Program for a reason, it was never meant to be your only source of food.


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## Elffriend (Mar 2, 2003)

Forcast, have you tried the Farmer's Market during the last 20-30 minutes of the day? That's when ours has very good deals, much better than the local grocery stores for some things.


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

Gardening can be a supplement to the Supplement. If you don't have land, then try containers. Everything helps the menu.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Heritagefarm said:


> The number is extremely low. Most people can easily get $180 when their income drops. So the person may be receiving a proportionate amount of income that offsets the FS amount, disability, SS, etc.


I know a widow who is squeaking by on her husband's SS, no other income, she only qualifies for $20/month. Although to be fair if she would kick some of her leeching loser relatives to the curb who keep moving in with her, she could get by a lot better.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

MO_cows said:


> I know a widow who is squeaking by on her husband's SS, no other income, she only qualifies for $20/month. Although to be fair if she would kick some of her leeching loser relatives to the curb who keep moving in with her, she could get by a lot better.


Totally agree, sometimes family is a huge burden. Sometimes I feel lucky not to have very many family members who like me. :bandwagon:


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## Tall Grille (May 4, 2011)

My real estate agent is doing an experiment to see how cheaply she can live. She currently is living in an apartment upstairs of her office. She owns the building, and rents half out to a sub shop. She gets an omelette for breakfast at the sub shop for $2. Eats half and saves half for the next day. During her lunch break, she helps run the cash register for the lunch rush at the sub shop and all employees get a free sandwich for every shift worked so lunch is free. She does not live this way because she needs to but because she wants to


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Vahomesteaders said:


> 78 a month I would buy bulk oatmeal and rice.


 Well for one thing if this person is ONLY getting 78 bucks from the Food Stamp program that person is NOT THAT POOR. The amount you get is based on Income and income only - expenses. So that guy must be getting a few good dollars on SS. Something in the neighborhood of around 1K. And his expenses can't be that much either or he would get more than 78 bucks.
Heck a few years ago when my expenses were higher etc. and SSDI was lower, I was getting OVER that amount. But as SS increased and my expenses Decreased the amount went down substantially, till now it is 16 bucks a month.
Just enough to get a few pounds of burger a month to make into hot dishes etc.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

If yer gonna live on oatmeal and rice you might as well be dead anyway.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

If I had to live on $78 a month, I'd make sure I had the basics first, flour, butter, salt, sugar, potatoes and canned milk.
You can catch it on sale and it'll keep.
Eggs are pretty cheap eating, even if you have to pay grocery store prices, a dozen eggs will last a week or better for most people.
You can but 10# bags of chicken hind quarters for less than $10, that and some egg noodles (homemade) will make a lot of chicken noodles.
Some of us are lucky enough to have space to garden, raise a few chickens, etc. but some folks live in apartments, or aren't able to garden.
It might be interesting to try and see if a guy could live on that amount for a month.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

A few if those ten cent packs if garden seeds at the dollar store would help. 
If need be a few big cans from the local cafeteria or a restraunt would allow you to container garden.


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## vintagecat (Jan 26, 2016)

Assuming for the question that you start with basics of flour, sugar, seasonings on hand and assuming no garden space reflecting an urban user of food stamps on average:

Monthly purchases:
Eggs
Milk
Cheddar type cheese if/when it's on sale in bulk
Beans
Brown Rice
Peanut Butter
Sale Bread (day old, our store has lots of it every day)
Dried pasta
Tortillas
Canned tomatoes
Onions
Garlic
Bottled hot peppers in bulk
Chicken or pork (whatever is on sale)
Sale produce as it comes up
Tea bags


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Most people are not living their life, truth be told. Sad really. Very sad.




gilberte said:


> If yer gonna live on oatmeal and rice you might as well be dead anyway.


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

The fact that he is getting food stamps also qualifies him to get help from Food Pantries--and also qualifies him for help with Medicare programs and part D medical insurance. So--even if its 1.00--it has other benifits


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

I spend about $400-500 a month on two people for groceries. Considering the amount of organic, natural foods and produce I purchase, and the fact that I grow almost nothing myself, that's not actually that bad... Further we have some allergies and gluten intolerance and that drives the price of food up even further. So, no way I could purchase everything I need on $78...


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

i think it does still help farmers--just this week, i heard of the huge amount of cheese--and govt plans to buy 20 million dollars worth, and give to food banks


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Heritagefarm said:


> The number is extremely low. Most people can easily get $180 when their income drops. So the person may be receiving a proportionate amount of income that offsets the FS amount, disability, SS, etc.


Sorry to be late to the thread, but I just checked on my in-laws possible amount.

It was $48/month. Their Social security is about $1200/month for the both of them.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Jolly said:


> Sorry to be late to the thread, but I just checked on my in-laws possible amount.
> 
> It was $48/month. Their Social security is about $1200/month for the both of them.


 Yes it is rated on how much income - some expenses loin cost of rent, cost of healthcare things like that. As my SS goes up my stamps went down.
Now with a very low cost health insurance payments, I get 16 bucks a month, once when I first started many years ago it was close to 100 bucks a month.
And my SS is very close to that 1200 figure too, and that is after Medicare is taken out. LOL


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

arabian knight said:


> Yes it is rated on how much income - some expenses loin cost of rent, cost of healthcare things like that. As my SS goes up my stamps went down.
> Now with a very low cost health insurance payments, I get 16 bucks a month, once when I first started many years ago it was close to 100 bucks a month.
> And my SS is very close to that 1200 figure too, and that is after Medicare is taken out. LOL


I've never qualified for food stamps. I guess my Chevron pension pushes me over the top.

Maybe we'll see a SS raise this year, at least that's what Hillary promises...


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

with SS raise madicare gos up $1.00 more than you gained


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Ok I asked someone that knows the man... he is 60 looks way older hard living I guess. He get SS disability $758.00 a month broke his back 10 years ago. and has medicare that takes out $168.00 a month.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Forcast said:


> with SS raise madicare gos up $1.00 more than you gained


Except for high income retirees, the law includes a "hold harmless" provision that prevents Medicare Part B premiums from lowering Social Security benefits. Therefore, Medicare premiums can't increase by more than the Social Security raise.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nevada said:


> Except for high income retirees, the law includes a "hold harmless" provision that prevents Medicare Part B premiums from lowering Social Security benefits. Therefore, Medicare premiums can't increase by more than the Social Security raise.


I must be doing something wrong, every time I get a "raise" my payment drops a buck or two. Maybe it's the part d? :shrug:


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Sourdough said:


> FOLLOW-UP Quiz Question:
> 
> If the Food Stamp program was abolished tomorrow who would suffer the most........???


I've only read this far, there is over a page more of replies see how close I get to the deal....

Food stamps which evolved into SNAP or whatever fun acronym they come out with this week was an effort to kill 2 birds with one stone. It was to help folks down on their luck with some extra food; and it was supposed to help farmers that we're having a tough time finding markets for their products due to some different market conditions brought on by the govt.

So, it was a minor assist to poor folks and a minor assist to farmers - feed more people, use up more USA produced food stocks.

The govt got off cheaply as they didn't have to increase the regular farm subsidies, and they didn't have to provide otger assistance programs to poor folks.

It was a good idea.

It has changed a lot, and folks are still poor, and farmers still get put in the dumpster from bad govt policies and need subsidies. So not sure it achieved anything, but along the way it was well intentioned.

Paul


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Well, think I got it. Sorry for the misspelling, I don't want to edit my message. 

The govt back then compromised on stuff, and so this was the liberals wanting to help poor folk, and the conservatives wanting to help a segment of business, thry put this back together and both sides got to go back to the home district and say they did something good.

I enjoy the answers to the original question, simply how to buy food for one on under $80 a month. Some good thoughts on that which I can't improve upon.

Paul


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Sourdough said:


> FOLLOW-UP Quiz Question:
> 
> If the Food Stamp program was abolished tomorrow who would suffer the most........???



Suffer ? The working class poor at first. 
Then a little later small business as those people left jobs to move elsewhere for better jobs


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

If the farmers file bankruptcy, then the lenders/banks file bankruptcy....kind'a like the 1930's. Farm implement John Deere and CAT file bankruptcy, more banks close, there is no food available, people are starving. There is no need for trucking or railroad industry, massive unemployment, union riots, food riots.......Just keep telling yourself that only the poor will suffer. "And there sure as HELL will not be Good jobs to move on to"....There will not even be poopy jobs to move on to.

NOTE: AmericanStand........not aimed at you, I just chose yours at random to reply to.



AmericanStand said:


> Suffer ? The working class poor at first.
> Then a little later small business as those people left jobs to move elsewhere for better jobs


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

The biggest thing the person would need to do is have portion control. The next would be to reduce but not eliminate meats. Something like a polish sausage could be used in multiple meals to add some but not a lot of meat so they don't really miss having meat but eat a lot less of it.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Sourdough ,
I don't really see many farmers filing bankrupt if snap closes. 
Those people still have to eat they will find a way. 
Now walmart and other places would take a hit as they change their spending habits to Accommodate food costs. 
A lot of the farmers in the USA today don't raise food or food sold here so that too would help mitigate the hit.


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

The question is bogus at the outset. Food stamps are not, and never were, meant to be the sole food budget - they are a supplement. If he didn't qualify for other help it means he has other resources. 

He needs to spend his own resources before he starts spending mine.


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## HTAdmin (Dec 21, 2015)

pmondo said:


> beans and rice


and lots of it. Maybe some bouillon cubes as well to flavor it.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

SOooooo tell me where exactly do your "RESOURCES" come from......??? Odds are you are someplace in the massive government welfare system. Odds are that without several government programs you would not have resources. Corporate welfare and corporate protection are still welfare. The entire financial system only exists because of Q1 & Q2 & Q3 & Q4 and trade protections. We are ALL part of a massive parasite system. We are all part of a massive fraud, a massive con.




1948CaseVAI said:


> He needs to spend his own resources before he starts spending mine.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Sourdough said:


> SOooooo tell me where exactly do your "RESOURCES" come from......??? Odds are you are someplace in the massive government welfare system. Odds are that without several government programs you would not have resources. Corporate welfare and corporate protection are still welfare. The entire financial system only exists because of Q1 & Q2 & Q3 & Q4 and trade protections. We are ALL part of a massive parasite system. We are all part of a massive fraud, a massive con.


We are certainly far off from the original question here.

I understand what you are saying.

Some folks work hard and try to get ahead. They create their own resources.

Some folks try to get by on freebies. Gal where my wife works several years ago was happy - pregnant with her 5th kid. Different dads. She had it figured out that she could live off the support payments from 5 guys and the many govt support plans now and not need to work. This example actually falls somewhere between a total 'freeloader' and I choose it especially.....

Some folks have a medical issue in their family and get way behind on life. They need a hand up.

Some folks protest that all jobs should pay $15 an hour min so they can live off of checking out groceries and not aspire to work harder, do more, make something of themselves. I don't understand that, starter jobs are just that, not a life long career choice?

On the other hand, a fella busses tables at a cafe I go to now and then, he is autistic or some such deal, very personable fella very polite, I believe the govt subsidies much of his pay and transportation to and from this 2 hour job, and mich of his living expenses along the way. And that is not freeloading, I'm happy that fella has a job he can feel good about, meet folks, do something.

Even if all of these, and you and I, live under a huge house of cards of fake economy propped up by local, state, federal, and world politicians and powerful global corporations? What does that matter? We can't control that so very much at all.

But some of us can be productive, and working towards a better future, and create and use our own resources within the system we are dealt.

And some of us will be freeloaders and live off the resources of others and may work harder trying to do so than if we actually tried to be somebody of value.....

It should be pretty clear to all who is whom?

Paul


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> Sourdough ,
> I don't really see many farmers filing bankrupt if snap closes.
> Those people still have to eat they will find a way.
> Now walmart and other places would take a hit as they change their spending habits to Accommodate food costs.
> A lot of the farmers in the USA today don't raise food or food sold here so that too would help mitigate the hit.


Agriculture is on the edge of a very steep downward spiral right now.

The 2000s were fairly good years. We in ag did not get hit with the real estate crash that hurt the rest of the USA economy.

The past 6 years were a little too good in ag. Global economies and global weather patterns created a very cheap USA dollar and very small crops for a few years, while the Pasific Rim countries had good economic times with lots of money to spend on importing cheap 'to them' USA feed and food.

The inrush of money to ag created very high prices - seed, land rent, fertilizer, property taxes, everything went up.

Now grain crops are returning to surpluses and the USA dollar is becoming high valued again. Grain around the globe is yielding very well and we are growing more than the world can consume. The high USA dollar means we are the last place other countries will import from, they can buy cheaper from South America, Ukraine, etc.

Ag companies see this coming. John Deere is consolidating their dealers, they are buying up cheaper companies.

There are very very few companies supplying fertilizer to the world. The two biggest are consolidating into one, so there is less competition, less chance of fertilizer costs going down.

The seed and herbicide companies are all buying each other out. Of the 5 biggest, I think we will only have 3 left, one of them owned by China, the others based in Europe. Dow, Pioneer, Syngenta, Monsanto, and others will still be heard of, but they will be small portions of much bigger companies. No competition, all coming from just 3 major companies.

Ten years ago I paid $12 an acre in property taxes on farm land. This year I pay $48 an acre. Ten years ago land rent was around $180 an acre. Now it is $250-270 an acre.

Five years ago I got paid over $7 a bushel for some of my corn. Today it is worth 2.85 a bu, and it appears to be dropping lower for the rest of this year.

So,etching has to give.

Farming is set up for a Great Depression again for those who farm the land.

If you buy food at the store, in sure it is much cheaper now than it was 5 years ago? Right? Corn flakes they are paying 1/3 for the corn what they were paying 5 years ago - I'm sure your cornflakes are cheaper too now?

It will be interesting times.

Paul


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

Bit of a stretch, from the way the thread is going--but i am just wondering why, when officals figure your income, they figure what your income is--before Medicare comes out--and you are not allowed to deduct it, as you can private insurance. and, at the end of the year, your tax return shows what you would have gotten, before they deduct money you havent ever seen.. seems like it should be able to be deducted--since your income is figured with it figured in-- this seems disjointed as i re-read it--hope you understand the meaning


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

rambler said:


> Agriculture is on the edge of a very steep downward spiral right now.
> 
> The 2000s were fairly good years. We in ag did not get hit with the real estate crash that hurt the rest of the USA economy.
> 
> ...


What you've just described is a very good reason to get away from farming for giant companies and do direct to consumer food marketing. Stop giving money to the giant companies who rig the economy and start putting food directing into people's plates.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

ceresone said:


> Bit of a stretch, from the way the thread is going--but i am just wondering why, when officals figure your income, they figure what your income is--before Medicare comes out--and you are not allowed to deduct it, as you can private insurance. and, at the end of the year, your tax return shows what you would have gotten, before they deduct money you havent ever seen.. seems like it should be able to be deducted--since your income is figured with it figured in-- this seems disjointed as i re-read it--hope you understand the meaning




Makes as much sense as my 24 year old daughter having to list my income on her college financial aid application. The child tax credit ends the year they turn 17 and I can't claim her as a dependent on my taxes but for some reason the dpt of education considers her a dependent until 25. She moved out at 19 and has been supporting herself all this time but my income counts against her.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Heritagefarm said:


> What you've just described is a very good reason to get away from farming for giant companies and do direct to consumer food marketing. Stop giving money to the giant companies who rig the economy and start putting food directing into people's plates.


Unfortunately those giant companies are very efficient. I can find "commodity" chicken on sale for 99 cents a pound pretty often. Either whole chicken or one of the packages of parts. The locally raised, family farm enterprise, pastured specialty chicken offered at the store is $3.99 per pound, it never goes on sale. And it only comes as whole chicken, I have to break it down if so desired. $16 for one chicken. What's wrong with that picture? Some people just can't afford it, others simply won't pay it. I can get a rotisserie cooked chicken at Sams club for $5 day in, day out. It's awful hard to stick to one's principles when it costs triple!


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## HappySevenFarm (Jan 21, 2013)

MO_cows said:


> Unfortunately those giant companies are very efficient. I can find "commodity" chicken on sale for 99 cents a pound pretty often. Either whole chicken or one of the packages of parts. The locally raised, family farm enterprise, pastured specialty chicken offered at the store is $3.99 per pound, it never goes on sale. And it only comes as whole chicken, I have to break it down if so desired. $16 for one chicken. What's wrong with that picture? Some people just can't afford it, others simply won't pay it. I can get a rotisserie cooked chicken at Sams club for $5 day in, day out. It's awful hard to stick to one's principles when it costs triple!



I have a coworker that said he'd pay me $5 a pound for the Cornish rocks that I'm raising. There's one catch.....he wants them to be raised in a chicken tractor so they can roam some and have a good life for 8 weeks! Some people will pay the price but I know I wouldn't. 

Btw, how do I get my chickens to taste like SAMs clubs chickens?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

rambler said:


> If you buy food at the store, in sure it is much cheaper now than it was 5 years ago? Right? Corn flakes they are paying 1/3 for the corn what they were paying 5 years ago - I'm sure your cornflakes are cheaper too now?
> 
> It will be interesting times.
> 
> Paul


Actually it is. Maybe not cornflakes but other staples are much cheaper lately. Last week I bought milk for$1.50 a gallon, eggs for a dollar doz, this week I found pork picnics $1.08 lb! Boston butt roast $1.59. Whole pork tenderloins last week for $1.60.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I lost most of my retirement funds in 2008. My plan now is to marry a rich man before I draw SS.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

HappySevenFarm said:


> I have a coworker that said he'd pay me $5 a pound for the Cornish rocks that I'm raising. There's one catch.....he wants them to be raised in a chicken tractor so they can roam some and have a good life for 8 weeks! Some people will pay the price but I know I wouldn't.
> 
> Btw, how do I get my chickens to taste like SAMs clubs chickens?


They are either brined or injected. I would say brined since I've never seen injection holes. But they are even more salty and tenderized than just a regular brine would accomplish. Some kind of tenderizer is added.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

MO_cows said:


> Unfortunately those giant companies are very efficient. I can find "commodity" chicken on sale for 99 cents a pound pretty often. Either whole chicken or one of the packages of parts. The locally raised, family farm enterprise, pastured specialty chicken offered at the store is $3.99 per pound, it never goes on sale. And it only comes as whole chicken, I have to break it down if so desired. $16 for one chicken. What's wrong with that picture? Some people just can't afford it, others simply won't pay it. I can get a rotisserie cooked chicken at Sams club for $5 day in, day out. It's awful hard to stick to one's principles when it costs triple!


LOL yeah that rotisserie chicken that has enough chemicals to burn down a factory... I can't even eat those things. I've been working on my diet really hard the last year or so, and when I eat those chickens now, they send me to the bathroom after only about an hour.

But I see your point. That cheap chicken is very - cheap. But it's not sustainable, in the overall sense of the word, it's just not. People need to eat less meat, period, and it needs to have less noxious chemicals in it. I'm sure someone will come along soon enough to bash me for being anti-farmer and standing in the way of farmers making a living, or maybe that my views are primitive, I think I've heard them all. 

But ultimately that cheap chicken is bad for the consumer, it's bad for the planet, and it's even bad for the economy - no matter hard hard you spinneh.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

A freind of mine raises those "cheap" chickens for a living. They sure help his economy! My Yvonne and I eat quite a bit of chicken every week. Neither of us have had any trouble digesting it, and at $.39 a pound it's a cheap source of protein.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Yes it is cheap. And most all stores around here have a rotisserie going all day for their chicken and by golly it is not too bad either. Pretty dern good cheap meals.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

All this talk about chicken, I think I'll walk over to Sams Club later and pick up a rotisserie chicken -- they are awesome. And at my age I really don't worry about additives.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

You can walk to SAMs club ? My GF would be so jealous!


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## Ellendra (Jul 31, 2013)

terri9630 said:


> Makes as much sense as my 24 year old daughter having to list my income on her college financial aid application. The child tax credit ends the year they turn 17 and I can't claim her as a dependent on my taxes but for some reason the dpt of education considers her a dependent until 25. She moved out at 19 and has been supporting herself all this time but my income counts against her.


If she's self-supporting, she doesn't have to list your income. Any questions regarding her parents can be left blank. If someone's telling her otherwise, they're lying.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Heritagefarm said:


> LOL yeah that rotisserie chicken that has enough chemicals to burn down a factory... I can't even eat those things. I've been working on my diet really hard the last year or so, and when I eat those chickens now, they send me to the bathroom after only about an hour.
> 
> But I see your point. That cheap chicken is very - cheap. But it's not sustainable, in the overall sense of the word, it's just not. People need to eat less meat, period, and it needs to have less noxious chemicals in it. I'm sure someone will come along soon enough to bash me for being anti-farmer and standing in the way of farmers making a living, or maybe that my views are primitive, I think I've heard them all.
> 
> But ultimately that cheap chicken is bad for the consumer, it's bad for the planet, and it's even bad for the economy - no matter hard hard you spinneh.


I don't know what their formula is but why do you assume it's toxic? For example, baking soda is a tenderizer and can also have a laxative effect. There are instructions right on the box for use as a laxative. Some meat tenderizers come from fruit, papaya I believe. But you just jump to the conclusion that they must be putting toxic waste in those chickens!

Sustainable is just a catch phrase like factory farm, no solid definition exists. How sustainable would it be to take those millions of chickens that are efficiently raised in one building, and set aside enough land to raise them? What would have to give to make that happen? It might not be such a "sustainable" enterprise after all.

I think we have a pretty good system. The commodity market is efficient and keeps cost down, but for people who want it and can afford it, there are quality alternatives available too. I still remember when if you wanted "organic", you either had to raise it yourself or go find the hippies at the swap meet!


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> You can walk to SAMs club ? My GF would be so jealous!


It's right next door to the apartment complex I live in -- thankfully I live on the other side of the complex. Not a fan of those tall parking lot lights. But it can be dangerous to live so close.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

MO_cows said:


> I don't know what their formula is but why do you assume it's toxic? For example, baking soda is a tenderizer and can also have a laxative effect. There are instructions right on the box for use as a laxative. Some meat tenderizers come from fruit, papaya I believe. But you just jump to the conclusion that they must be putting toxic waste in those chickens!
> 
> Sustainable is just a catch phrase like factory farm, no solid definition exists. How sustainable would it be to take those millions of chickens that are efficiently raised in one building, and set aside enough land to raise them? What would have to give to make that happen? It might not be such a "sustainable" enterprise after all.
> 
> I think we have a pretty good system. The commodity market is efficient and keeps cost down, but for people who want it and can afford it, there are quality alternatives available too. I still remember when if you wanted "organic", you either had to raise it yourself or go find the hippies at the swap meet!


OK, I checked out the ingredients, and they're not actually terrible. It may be poor preparation that sends me to the bathroom? I don't know - all I know is that very few things can do that do me except 6 cups of coffee in a row followed by whole milk cereal for breakfast. So, it gives me pause.

Sustainable is not a catch phrase. Sustainability is necessary because if we are unsustainable, it means we're living beyond the carrying capacity of the earth. Now, you're a farmer, you understand that you can't run 20 cows on 10 acres without some negative consequences happening fairly fast. That's what sustainable means - if you put everyone in the world at America's standard, you'll need another 4 planets of resources to sustain 7 billion people. This isn't scary manufactured propaganda, this is just math and figuring out how many people the earth can support.

Now, you're right that chicken farms are very efficient, but think about where their food comes from... Corn fields! I wonder what would happen if those corn fields feeding chickens were put to better use? Most scientists agree - we eat too much meat and it puts a lot of stress on the environment.

_Everything you love, kills you._


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Heritagefarm said:


> OK, I checked out the ingredients, and they're not actually terrible. It may be poor preparation that sends me to the bathroom? I don't know - all I know is that very few things can do that do me except 6 cups of coffee in a row followed by whole milk cereal for breakfast. So, it gives me pause.
> 
> Sustainable is not a catch phrase. Sustainability is necessary because if we are unsustainable, it means we're living beyond the carrying capacity of the earth. Now, you're a farmer, you understand that you can't run 20 cows on 10 acres without some negative consequences happening fairly fast. That's what sustainable means - if you put everyone in the world at America's standard, you'll need another 4 planets of resources to sustain 7 billion people. This isn't scary manufactured propaganda, this is just math and figuring out how many people the earth can support.
> 
> ...


Corn doesn't have enough protein to sustain the extremely rapid growth of commercial broilers. Yes there is some corn in the feed but not the main ingredient by a long shot. 

You would think somebody so passionate about these things would want learn a little and know what you are ranting about. When you go off on a tangent based in myth, it reminds me of Rosanne Rosanna Danna. Before your time I'm sure bet I'll bet there's a youtube.......

I wonder if your digestive upset is from MSG? Under a certain level, they can label it as another name which I forget right now. Some people are very sensitive to it.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

MO_cows said:


> Corn doesn't have enough protein to sustain the extremely rapid growth of commercial broilers. Yes there is some corn in the feed but not the main ingredient by a long shot.
> 
> You would think somebody so passionate about these things would want learn a little and know what you are ranting about. When you go off on a tangent based in myth, it reminds me of Rosanne Rosanna Danna. Before your time I'm sure bet I'll bet there's a youtube.......
> 
> I wonder if your digestive upset is from MSG? Under a certain level, they can label it as another name which I forget right now. Some people are very sensitive to it.


I see... Unable to come up with any quality arguments, so pick the one thing I got wrong to pieces? We've got this entire argument, which is pretty much global in scope, but OH here's this little piece, we'll just focus on this piece right here, that makes us look smarter. AND we wonder what's wrong with stuff in this world? Huh.

Oh and yes, now that you mention it I do remember, when I grew several thousand chickens, that I couldn't get away with feeding them corn for very long and usually I fed them that grower crumble. OOPS so sorry for forgetting that little detail! Any other little details you'd like to pick over? How about my grammar and syntax, is that tiny enough?

And before you go calling my posts myths, perhaps YOU would like to educate yourself on which parts are mythical. Sustainability is a very real thing and some people, who actually care about others and making the future a better place, are concerned about our currently unsustainable direction.

Go eat your Sam's Club chicken...


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

Ellendra said:


> If she's self-supporting, she doesn't have to list your income. Any questions regarding her parents can be left blank. If someone's telling her otherwise, they're lying.


Unless the parents are a party (co-signer) of the loan. Then they care.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Heritagefarm said:


> I see... Unable to come up with any quality arguments, so pick the one thing I got wrong to pieces? We've got this entire argument, which is pretty much global in scope, but OH here's this little piece, we'll just focus on this piece right here, that makes us look smarter. AND we wonder what's wrong with stuff in this world? Huh.
> 
> Oh and yes, now that you mention it I do remember, when I grew several thousand chickens, that I couldn't get away with feeding them corn for very long and usually I fed them that grower crumble. OOPS so sorry for forgetting that little detail! Any other little details you'd like to pick over? How about my grammar and syntax, is that tiny enough?
> 
> ...


So if you know all that, what was the point of posting this:
_Now, you're right that chicken farms are very efficient, but think about where their food comes from... Corn fields! 




_


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

MO_cows said:


> Corn doesn't have enough protein to sustain the extremely rapid growth of commercial broilers. Yes there is some corn in the feed but not the main ingredient by a long shot.



What is the main ingredient ? 
You see around here corn is the main ingredient. Add a bit of soy meal for protein and pinch of vitamins and minerals and that's pretty much it.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

MO_cows said:


> So if you know all that, what was the point of posting this:
> _Now, you're right that chicken farms are very efficient, but think about where their food comes from... Corn fields!
> 
> 
> ...


The main point is that chickens have to be fed. In order to be fed, they have to be given food. In order for the food to appear, it has to be grown. In order for it to be grown, there has to be land. So, land for the grain (there, all inclusive now), land for the chickens. So, we could see some improvement when the broilers are pasture raised. For my purposes, I saw about a 50% reduction in feed for my broilers when I pasture raised them over simply housing them. 

They are also genetically not sustainable birds - sustainable chickens don't kill themselves through their own excessive weight gain. Rediculous...


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Heritagefarm said:


> The main point is that chickens have to be fed. In order to be fed, they have to be given food. In order for the food to appear, it has to be grown. In order for it to be grown, there has to be land. So, land for the grain (there, all inclusive now), land for the chickens. So, we could see some improvement when the broilers are pasture raised. For my purposes, I saw about a 50% reduction in feed for my broilers when I pasture raised them over simply housing them.
> 
> They are also genetically not sustainable birds - sustainable chickens don't kill themselves through their own excessive weight gain. Rediculous...


Yet we have been doing this with broilers for 60 years. Your right it's wasteful of resources but a vegetarian diet isn't exactly healthy to humans.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

coolrunnin said:


> Yet we have been doing this with broilers for 60 years. Your right it's wasteful of resources but a vegetarian diet isn't exactly healthy to humans.


True, but neither is the prodigious quantity of meat we consume. We do not need 3 hamburgers every week. Hamburgers (collectively) alone contribute as much greenhouse gases as all the SUVs in the country.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Heritagefarm said:


> True, but neither is the prodigious quantity of meat we consume. We do not need 3 hamburgers every week. Hamburgers (collectively) alone contribute as much greenhouse gases as all the SUVs in the country.


I don't know, I doubt I eat 3 hamburgers a month, but in full disclosure I do eat a lot of chicken because it's easy to cook in the truck.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Heritagefarm said:


> True, but neither is the prodigious quantity of meat we consume. We do not need 3 hamburgers every week. Hamburgers (collectively) alone contribute as much greenhouse gases as all the SUVs in the country.


Actually, protein and fat is all you need. My diet is lots of fat and I am getting healthier. My blood pressure and cholesterol have both dropped drastically.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

coolrunnin said:


> I don't know, I doubt I eat 3 hamburgers a month, but in full disclosure I do eat a lot of chicken because it's easy to cook in the truck.


It's more likely you're crash and die than die from eating too much chicken. Hope that makes you feel better.:huh:



painterswife said:


> Actually, protein and fat is all you need. My diet is lots of fat and I am getting healthier. My blood pressure and cholesterol have both dropped drastically.


A balanced diet is important, I think. Some minerals and vitamins from plant sources are essential (obviously). I assume you're eating natural fats? I do subscribe to the "Eat More Butter" philosophy. The government's war on saturated fat was extremely destructive in my opinion.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Heritagefarm said:


> It's more likely you're crash and die than die from eating too much chicken. Hope that makes you feel better.:huh:
> 
> 
> 
> A balanced diet is important, I think. Some minerals and vitamins from plant sources are essential (obviously). I assume you're eating natural fats? I do subscribe to the "Eat More Butter" philosophy. The government's war on saturated fat was extremely destructive in my opinion.


A balanced diet as prescribed by the food pyramid is not important. You can get all the vitamins and minerals from animal protein and fat and a few green leafy vegetables Your brain and your body work much better on those.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

painterswife said:


> A balanced diet as prescribed by the food pyramid is not important. You can get all the vitamins and minerals from animal protein and fat and a few green leafy vegetables Your brain and your body work much better on those.


Bazillions of books have been published on how to eat right. According to my research, there is no set diet that works "the best" except eating real food - that is, staying away from processed foods. Our bodies can handle pretty much any diet except veganism, which is practically a starvation sentence.

One potential problem from consuming too many animals fats, however, is that this is where animals tend to store bio-accumulated environmental toxins, such as certain pesticides and heavy metals.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Heritagefarm said:


> It's more likely you're crash and die than die from eating too much chicken. Hope that makes you feel better.:huh:
> 
> 
> 
> A balanced diet is important, I think. Some minerals and vitamins from plant sources are essential (obviously). I assume you're eating natural fats? I do subscribe to the "Eat More Butter" philosophy. The government's war on saturated fat was extremely destructive in my opinion.


I wasn't feeling bad, just thought your wild accusations needed clarification.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

coolrunnin said:


> I wasn't feeling bad, just thought your wild accusations needed clarification.


Where have I made wild accusations? I can back up any of my claims with citations if you'd like. Some of them may be from books and journals, however, instead of online sources.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Heritagefarm said:


> Bazillions of books have been published on how to eat right. According to my research, there is no set diet that works "the best" except eating real food - that is, staying away from processed foods. Our bodies can handle pretty much any diet except veganism, which is practically a starvation sentence.
> 
> One potential problem from consuming too many animals fats, however, is that this is where animals tend to store bio-accumulated environmental toxins, such as certain pesticides and heavy metals.


I know you are young and you believe that books written are bibles but I will tell you I have lived quite a few years. I know from experience with doctors and ways of eating what different foods do to your body as a system over time. The majority of books written in the last 40- 50 years are based on bad studies.

For example that animal fat is bad for you and you should eat lean meat. Add to that the doctors who push statins and diabetes medication when all they need to do is have you cut the carbs out of your diet.

When you get to my age and you actually experience the difference between the brain fog and a clear mind or the energy you get when you cut out those carbs that are pushed on you from grains to fruit and replace it with the fat on that juicy steak or hamburger ( no bun). It is like turning back the clock. I think about what I could have accomplished if I was feeding my body this way my whole life and cry.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

painterswife said:


> I know you are young and you believe that books written are bibles but I will tell you I have lived quite a few years.


You know that? Interesting.
You misunderstood my sentence. I meant that the vast majority of books published on diets and eating right are pure bogus. If you want to read a truly fantastic book on eating right, read Michael Pollan's books. They are real eye openers. In Omnivore's Delimma, for instance, he discusses how food policy in the US has shaped the manner in which we eat. He explores the socioeconomic ramifications behind these policies and discusses the history of eating.
In "In Defense of Food," he discusses why most vitamin and mineral supplements are scams and mostly unneeded warranted a natural, healthy diet void of processed foods, and how much eating wrong has messed up American bodies.



painterswife said:


> I know from experience with doctors and ways of eating what different foods do to your body as a system over time. The majority of books written in the last 40- 50 years are based on bad studies.


Everyone's body is also different. This further complicates matters and often, what is healthy for one person simply will not work for another person.



painterswife said:


> For example that animal fat is bad for you and you should eat lean meat. Add to that the doctors who push statins and diabetes medication when all they need to do is have you cut the carbs out of your diet.
> 
> When you get to my age and you actually experience the difference between the brain fog and a clear mind or the energy you get when you cut out those carbs that are pushed on you from grains to fruit and replace it with the fat on that juicy steak or hamburger ( no bun). It is like turning back the clock. I think about what I could have accomplished if I was feeding my body this way my whole life and cry.


Currently I honestly worry less about what I'm eating and make sure I'm eating whole foods and foods from natural sources. However I actually do agree with you that animal fats and protein are necesary for our proper functioning.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Heritagefarm said:


> Currently I honestly worry less about what I'm eating and make sure I'm eating whole foods and foods from natural sources. However I actually do agree with you that animal fats and protein are necesary for our proper functioning.


What are "whole foods"? And what do you consider to be "unnatural sources"?


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> What are "whole foods"? And what do you consider to be "unnatural sources"?


Basically, the fresher, closer to original form you can eat it, the better. I'm talking about avoiding things like twinkles and more things like stir fry with chicken and beef, that kind of thing. Basics...


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Heritagefarm said:


> True, but neither is the prodigious quantity of meat we consume. We do not need 3 hamburgers every week. Hamburgers (collectively) alone contribute as much greenhouse gases as all the SUVs in the country.


Where do you get this stuff? Most hamburger comes from old worn out cows and bulls. The ones from the beef side of the industry would have been on pasture all of their lives. Maybe some supplement needed in the winter. Even choice/prime cut beef animals would have been raised on pasture then get their final weeks of finishing in the feedlot. 

A lot of cow calf operations use land that is not capable of any other food production. Turning grass into protein. And the water, minerals and hay provided for cattle is taken advantage of by wildlife.

And the beef industry is the last holdout of independent production. Most of the chicken and pork raisers are contract serfs, the "vertical integration" model.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

MO_cows said:


> Where do you get this stuff? Most hamburger comes from old worn out cows and bulls. The ones from the beef side of the industry would have been on pasture all of their lives. Maybe some supplement needed in the winter. Even choice/prime cut beef animals would have been raised on pasture then get their final weeks of finishing in the feedlot.
> 
> A lot of cow calf operations use land that is not capable of any other food production. Turning grass into protein. And the water, minerals and hay provided for cattle is taken advantage of by wildlife.
> 
> And the beef industry is the last holdout of independent production. Most of the chicken and pork raisers are contract serfs, the "vertical integration" model.


I "get this stuff" from scientific journals, documentaries and textbooks. Where do you "get your stuff"? Beef industry papers? That might be a little biased, don't you think? And when I said "hamburger," I meant the whole shebang, trucking, storefronts, manufacturing. You have to think beyond your cowfield - I know that's obviously unnatural, but it's necceary for having an intelligent discussion.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Heritagefarm said:


> I "get this stuff" from scientific journals, documentaries and textbooks. Where do you "get your stuff"? Beef industry papers? That might be a little biased, don't you think? And when I said "hamburger," I meant the whole shebang, trucking, storefronts, manufacturing. You have to think beyond your cowfield - I know that's obviously unnatural, but it's necceary for having an intelligent discussion.


Unless you can get 320 million odd folks on enough ground to raise there own, how do you suggest raising food to feed em all more ecologically friendly?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Heritagefarm said:


> I "get this stuff" from scientific journals, documentaries and textbooks. Where do you "get your stuff"? Beef industry papers? That might be a little biased, don't you think? And when I said "hamburger," I meant the whole shebang, trucking, storefronts, manufacturing. You have to think beyond your cowfield - I know that's obviously unnatural, but it's necceary for having an intelligent discussion.


I got "my stuff" from growing up on farms and ranches, then doing my "homestead" thing for the past thirty+ years. All of my mentors were real deal country folk... And would get quite a chuckle hearing the term "cow field". We grow food crops in fields, cows are found in pastures, or on open range.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I got "my stuff" from growing up on farms and ranches, then doing my "homestead" thing for the past thirty+ years. All of my mentors were real deal country folk... And would get quite a chuckle hearing the term "cow field". We grow food crops in fields, cows are found in pastures, or on open range.


Around here, there aren't many crops growing. Maybe a few people have gardens. We do have soil, but only about an inch of it is useful, so most people are here run cattle. Everything is a "field," or cow field. Technically or clay qualifies as soil, but it's not very fertile.



coolrunnin said:


> Unless you can get 320 million odd folks on enough ground to raise there own, how do you suggest raising food to feed em all more ecologically friendly?


Good question. Most people are more worried about survival than whether or not their chicken dinner was raised equitably. Understandable. Unless you have some spare time, worrying about that stuff is pretty hard, maybe even seen as a waste of time. Personally I think the pastured poultry option is excellent. Reduces feed, healthier chickens being outdoors, and if they're moved around, they get bugs which make them taste better. It may take less land and it certainly requires less infrastructure. Sell locally and you have less fossil fuels being used to transport grain, fertilizer, feed, and then trucking the dang chicken all over the country. No offense to you truck drivers intended, but the less emissions from shipping we can get, the better.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Heritagefarm said:


> Around here, there aren't many crops growing. Maybe a few people have gardens. We do have soil, but only about an inch of it is useful, so most people are here run cattle. Everything is a "field," or cow field. Technically or clay qualifies as soil, but it's not very fertile.
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Most people are more worried about survival than whether or not their chicken dinner was raised equitably. Understandable. Unless you have some spare time, worrying about that stuff is pretty hard, maybe even seen as a waste of time. Personally I think the pastured poultry option is excellent. Reduces feed, healthier chickens being outdoors, and if they're moved around, they get bugs which make them taste better. It may take less land and it certainly requires less infrastructure. Sell locally and you have less fossil fuels being used to transport grain, fertilizer, feed, and then trucking the dang chicken all over the country. No offense to you truck drivers intended, but the less emissions from shipping we can get, the better.


In a perfect world what you are saying works, but what about predators decimating your flock. I'm all for keeping your food supply closer to home, heck it means I'm home more. You just have the problems of not all areas are useful for agricultural operations and we are still feeding 320 million folks. 

Really less land to pasture raised? Your still going to have to supplement in the winter, and maybe through the heat of summer, where's that coming from.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

coolrunnin said:


> In a perfect world what you are saying works, but what about predators decimating your flock. I'm all for keeping your food supply closer to home, heck it means I'm home more. You just have the problems of not all areas are useful for agricultural operations and we are still feeding 320 million folks.
> 
> Really less land to pasture raised? Your still going to have to supplement in the winter, and maybe through the heat of summer, where's that coming from.


The specifics can be taken care of on a per-farm basis. 

Pretty soon, we're going to add even more people to the planet. We'll need to either become more efficient and extract ever more nutrients from the ground or expand and take over ever more land. We need to figure out how to do that without further damaging the environment. It's a huge challenge that scientists around the world are working on.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Heritagefarm said:


> The specifics can be taken care of on a per-farm basis.
> 
> Pretty soon, we're going to add even more people to the planet. We'll need to either become more efficient and extract ever more nutrients from the ground or expand and take over ever more land. We need to figure out how to do that without further damaging the environment. It's a huge challenge that scientists around the world are working on.


You always do specifics on a per farm basis, I've never seen any 2 exactly alike, that means nothing. 

And your right science has been working on improving farm methods for what 100 years or so, and would you not agree they have made huge strides with more to come?


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

coolrunnin said:


> You always do specifics on a per farm basis, I've never seen any 2 exactly alike, that means nothing.
> 
> And your right science has been working on improving farm methods for what 100 years or so, and would you not agree they have made huge strides with more to come?


Yes, I agree. But currently, the trajectory of the developed world in terms of sustainability is quite dismal. Here in America, we do not recycle enough, our cars are too big, our diets too fattening, and our consumer habits destructive. While we're at it, here are some sustainability problems from the viewpoint of a soil scientist (farmer?):


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Heritagefarm said:


> Yes, I agree. But currently, the trajectory of the developed world in terms of sustainability is quite dismal. Here in America, we do not recycle enough, our cars are too big, our diets too fattening, and our consumer habits destructive. While we're at it, here are some sustainability problems from the viewpoint of a soil scientist (farmer?):


They can't process all that's recycled now, not sure who's fault but it's a fact. My vehicles are just big enough to get the job done, get over it. My family is within suggested guidelines of weight sorry. Now my our consumer habits may be destructive I'm not sure, but probably could do better.

Not really impressed with your little picture sorry.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

coolrunnin said:


> They can't process all that's recycled now, not sure who's fault but it's a fact. My vehicles are just big enough to get the job done, get over it. My family is within suggested guidelines of weight sorry. Now my our consumer habits may be destructive I'm not sure, but probably could do better.
> 
> Not really impressed with your little picture sorry.


I don't care about you or your family, no offense. If you can do a few things to improve, great. I'm working on a few things myself. My recycling habits could be improved, but everyone around here is a dingbat, so there aren't any recycling centers. It has to be collective action, but done at the individual level.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I've done my part..... No offspring to waste resources! Now if we can get everyone to do the same for three or four generations. Anything else is merely prolonging the agony.


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

Words from a dingbat in south missouri--even our small town has a recycling center-and i do-papers go into compost, alum and metal-and bottles--are recycled.remember--this may be a world wide forum--but careful with the name calling--some of us live in your posted area


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

ceresone said:


> Words from a dingbat in south missouri--even our small town has a recycling center-and i do-papers go into compost, alum and metal-and bottles--are recycled.remember--this may be a world wide forum--but careful with the name calling--some of us live in your posted area


I stand by my word. The one remaining recycling center was shut down, likely due to a similar reason as the other ones. Next major recycling center is an hour or so away. Yes we have an inordinate quantity of dingbats living here. Take it or leave it - I prefer to leave it.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

They shut our recycling program down this July. Closest is an hour away. Different county, they don't like others using their system.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

We have a scrap metal outfit here in the county but not much else in the area. Nearest landfill is in the adjacent county to our west.


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

I agree on the type of people living here--I just object to being "lumped into" everyone else. Perhaps, and evidentally I do,have a different perspective on people.We have a group of people.
, in our neighborhood, mostly from 2 families, that fit into the Archie Bunker era, but-then there are some fine people that live in the area. two of which are building multi-million dollar homes on our road.
But, aside from that--try Burnham Recycling--and the P.D. has bins behind their station too. west plains recycling also buys cans--metal-- My paper and cardboard are all recycled in my garden--but then, perhaps, I too, am "strange"


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

The best recycling program is to not buy so much stuff to begin with that needs recycled. Bottled water is a ridiculous product from an environmental point of view. All that plastic, all that fuel trucking the heavy stuff around. 

There is a paper and cardboard receptacle for recycling nearby, it benefits one of the benevolent organizations in town. Also a place that will buy metals but he's a ripoff. Always paying less than anywhere else, and his scales weigh light. So we accumulate metal and take it in to the city once or twice a year. Mostly aluminum cans but also any other bits and pieces. We always get way more than the fuel to get it there cost. Plastic, I just try not to buy it in the first place. Or repurpose the plastic containers myself for dry storage. Like 2 liter pop bottles and those jugs that the "not from concentrate" OJ comes in. We buy milk in glass jugs.


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## Elffriend (Mar 2, 2003)

In our region in southwestern Ontario recycling is picked up on the same day as trash. We have special blue bins for any paper or cardboard, glass containers, most plastics and cans. We also have sealed green bins for food waste and a limited list of other compostable materials. They also pick up yard waste. Recycling is highly encouraged here.


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## LaBella (Jan 9, 2013)

Declan said:


> The biggest thing the person would need to do is have portion control. The next would be to reduce but not eliminate meats. Something like a polish sausage could be used in multiple meals to add some but not a lot of meat so they don't really miss having meat but eat a lot less of it.


That reminds me of something. A some years ago, there was a show on PBS about people doing the homesteader thing.. but back in the day. And they had experts come in and critique their efforts on everything, including their eating habits.
I remember vividly the expert pointing out how much meat waste one family was leaving on the bone, and it kind of stuck with me.
Later I started buying whole chicken. Before I would buy parts but I was trying to learn to be more economical, and so whole chicken and then work from there.
It was just me and my two daughters who were rather small but I still wanted to do better. And so I learned to make one small chicken last into almost a weeks worth of dinner.
First day, roasted, second day probably some kind of fahita kind of meal, third day something like chicken salad, fourth day, picking the bits and having chicken sandwiches. By this point the chicken was close to bone, with mostly the back and ribs..
Then I remembered something else form way back in the day when I was given some kind of really big fish by a neighbor.. and when I say really big, that sucker was at least 2 feet long.
I didn't want to waste the head, so I boiled it down in a crock pot and then ran it through a blender and put it over my dogs food.
I got the idea to boil the rest of the chicken carcass down.. I didn't have dogs, but I thought about all the times I cooked chicken and the meat fell off the bone and so I wanted to get all that meat I was missing.

I'm not going to lie, it's a bit messy and time consuming, but since then, that is what I do, I simmer the carcass and then pick all the bones out. ALL the bones.. You gotta get your hands in there and feel around. Scrub up!!! I shred up what meat I fine and it becomes the base for chicken stew. With what I add to it, it's very thick and very rich, and just put a ladle over rice or pasta and it's amazing... That's day five off one bird. Day six, add water and rice or orzo pasta and have chicken soup.
Of course by this point we're chickened out, lol.
I tell this to people and they are amazed that I can get 6 days of dinner from one 6-8 lb chicken. That's because they don't do day 5 and 6, once the chicken is down "to the bone" so to speak, they think it's done. 

Portion control IS a lot of it. We have been taught that the meat should be a major portion of the meal, and we cook and serve accordingly (we in general). I have tried to get into the mental habit that meat is more of a garnishment to the meal. A small amount of flavorful meat with rice or pasta or vegetables.
So you'll see my meals are something like a 1/2 cup of the the chicken "stew" served over rice. Or one cup of chunked and chopped breast mixed with broccoli for 4 or 5 people.
I make a delicious pot of greens and I will cook up a mess of mixed greens that is pounds of collars, kale, turnip and mustard, and flavor it with a smoked turkey neck.. that I shred up and mix into the the whole thing and it would make a huge pot of greens that was just about a meal in of itself.. And if it wasn't so labor intensive, I would probably have it morning noon and night forever, lol.
Learn how to make beans and rice. I was taught, and very little meat goes into the dish, but it's delicious, and as a plus, you can use pretty much any kind of meat. Split pea soup.. with the bone from the small ham you bought used to help flavor. That ham, I can make three to four meals from it, before getting to the bone.
Polish sausage like the U shaped ones you get at the grocery store? Chop it down and use half it in cabbage (I usually cook for an army, I should mention, so many of these things make several meals, like when I cook cabbage, lol), it's amazing. Fry the other half and use it in beans.
The examples go on and on. Portion control and use the meat more for flavor or a garnish, not as the main meal itself.

Edit: I want to add that in part learning to better stretch things like meats was in part because I was in my first place by myself, in subsidized housing and on food stamps which was TANF then, I think. And I wanted to make sure I wasn't wasting what I got while getting back on my feet. 
I can feed my family of 4 or 5 (depending on if my brother breezes in or not) for 2 weeks on 78 dollars.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Wow, you're good. You should write a book or start a blog. Lots of young women could learn from you. Folks just aren't teaching this to kids anymore.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

LaBella said:


> I got the idea to boil the rest of the chicken carcass down.. I didn't have dogs, but I thought about all the times I cooked chicken and the meat fell off the bone and so I wanted to get all that meat I was missing.
> 
> I'm not going to lie, it's a bit messy and time consuming, but since then, that is what I do, I simmer the carcass and then pick all the bones out. ALL the bones.. You gotta get your hands in there and feel around. Scrub up!!! I shred up what meat I fine and it becomes the base for chicken stew. With what I add to it, it's very thick and very rich, and just put a ladle over rice or pasta and it's amazing... That's day five off one bird. Day six, add water and rice or orzo pasta and have chicken soup.
> Of course by this point we're chickened out, lol.
> I tell this to people and they are amazed that I can get 6 days of dinner from one 6-8 lb chicken. That's because they don't do day 5 and 6, once the chicken is down "to the bone" so to speak, they think it's done.


I do this with EVERY chicken that comes into this house. LOL I take the bones and toss them in the crockpot with a couple of carrots cut into chunks, a few stalks of celery cut into chunks with the leaves as well, an onion with the skin (only outermost peeled back), salt, pepper, and whatever seasonings I feel like tossing in there. I also cut a head of garlic in half horizontally and toss that in. I cook it overnight (usually do this as soon as we strip the chicken for dinners)so it goes at least 12 hours. By the time I get to it in the morning, it is GOLDEN and lovely. I strain off the solids, refrigerate the stock, and pick through all of the solids to get as much meat as possible. That gets put back into the stock and then divided up into containers for the freezer or it gets stored for a day or two until I want chicken soup. I tend to freeze this in 2 cup portions for the freezer with added fresh diced carrots and celery to make "chicken soup starter" for whenever anyone is ill. My son was sick 2 weeks ago and in just 20 minutes, I had hot chicken rice soup from the freezer into a bowl and in front of him.  I just added some leftover rice I had on hand. BEST stuff ever!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Miss Kay said:


> Wow, you're good. You should write a book or start a blog. Lots of young women could learn from you. Folks just aren't teaching this to kids anymore.


How sexist..... Boys could learn a lot too!


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

Forcast said:


> Fellow down the road late 60's Im guessing, just got food stamps through the senior center. Our senior center helped people apply for any benefits they might be eligible for. Anyway this man is going to get $78 a month in food stamps. He didnt qualify for anything else.
> 
> If you had no other money just $78 a month for food what would you buy?


I would buy at least 1 bell pepper (save the seeds)
At least 1 tomato (save those seeds)
At least 1 cucumber (save the seeds)
At least a few green beans (save the seeds)

you get the idea.. 

Then I would plant all those seeds in composted leaves and pee all around the plants every chance I got. 

I would then take the produce and sell some of it to purchase a bb-gun or a 22lr so I could kill some small game animals for meat. 

I would then dehydrate some of that meat to eat during the winter.

By the time I was done, I'd have my own food production system set up so I don't have to depend on $78/ month anymore.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Murby said:


> I would buy at least 1 bell pepper (save the seeds)
> At least 1 tomato (save those seeds)
> At least 1 cucumber (save the seeds)
> At least a few green beans (save the seeds)
> ...


Great idea.... If you don't starve to death while waiting for those first crops to ripen and have the space to operate your farming enterprise on, not to mention the physical capacity require to handle these chores. I'm also sure you are aware that composted leaves while good to build soil tilthe are very poor fertilizer not counting quite acidic in most cases.... A bit of lime and some plant nutrients really help.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> How sexist..... Boys could learn a lot too!


 Sure they could but how many would. By the way, I'd love it if they did. My hubby is a great cook.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Sourdough said:


> Quiz QUESTION:
> 
> The food stamp program was created to HELP.....*WHO.*......????


It was Implemented as a Farm Subsidy, So those who where economically impacted could pay for the Food Produced.

It is after all Administered by the Department of Agriculture.

But most never consider how it actually supplements so many more today.

It not only helps the Farmers but Manufacturers,Middle men,Grocers,The Trucking and Rail companies,middle men of all sorts,all the above employees and finally you the consumer.

Demand would still be there for the food but with out a method of payment, the food will not be.

Simple supply and demand, Demand is a mute point with out pay, so production is scaled down, stock is minimized and less is sold at higher mark ups to maintain profit from lost sales. Mean while those workers who benefit from the subsidized market start seeing layoffs,closures and find themselves in need of such a program. Adding to the Domino Effect created by the vacuum of phasing out the program with out alternatives in place.

So to the second Quiz, Everybody suffers!


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

A few things that have been missed by the answers are WHAT can be purchased to give the most bang for your buck. For example... seeds, vegetable plants, fruit trees and other items that you can grow into food are able to be purchased on food stamps. http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/eligible-food-items

Nation wide there is also a program that allows a person on food stamps to DOUBLE their money up to $25 on foods purchased from any farm market where the farmers are participating in the program. http://www.fns.usda.gov/ebt/snap-and-farmers-markets 
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt...-bucks-for-food-stamps-conquered-capitol-hill

My middle daughter qualifies for some SNAP assistance. By taking her $25 of food assistance to the farmers market she not only helps the local farmers she also brings home an AMAZING amount of wonderful food for the $50 she is now allowed to spend with the program. For example... she has purchased over 30 pounds of "seconds" tomatoes for $10 and then taken those home and canned them. That purchase alone turned $5.00 of SNAP into jars and jars of canned tomatoes to use in all manner of recipes. Buying direct from the farmer also has extra advantages. Often those farmers will get to know you when you shop frequently from their stalls. Once they know you and see you spending the wooden SNAP nickles they often give you even better bargains. Many farmers do not want to take food home at the end of the day and have offered my D2 to "come and take" at market close time. By not focusing on a meal at a time and putting some homestead skills to good use, it is amazing what you can buy on $78.00 a month.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Love all the seed buying people, Of course you do not live in an apartment with rules and regulations not to mention northern exposure from the only windows in the place.

Also like the fact you can use the stamps at a farmers market one near us had double days. or buy 2.00 worth for a buck. 

Beans and rice are great and so much can be done with them but buying from a grocery store waste money when you can buy direct from the farmer in some cases. No rice grown where I live but corn soy beans and navy beans are grown here.



 Al


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

I don't live in an apartment ... now, true enough.

However, we (my grandson and I) DID grow a crop of (pole) green beans in a large flower pot in my north facing window last winter. It was a huge success and actually provided enough beans for several meals. We are expanding our winter bean farm this year to include about 5 times the growing space. 

We grew our (apartment) bean farm with natural light. I am sure that more could be produced indoors in an apartment setting with grow lights, especially if a person were to embrace micro greens.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

OH yes that is the answer of course silly me. Get some extra money for food and use the other money to pay for electric to grow stuff. How stupid of me.

I know I should let the wife use 10 gallons of gas to drive 50 miles to save a nickel on a loaf of bread but some how I don't think of that as a savings.

 Al


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

Forcast said:


> If you had no other money just $78 a month for food what would you buy?


The original question (shown above) is about HOW to stretch a small amount of money received via SNAP. That is the question that I was trying to answer, while others (including moderators it seems) simply want to argue. 

In our area very few people seem aware of the ability to buy garden seeds and plants with those benefits and even fewer seem aware of the chance to DOUBLE part of the money by merely shopping at a participating Farmer's Market. Any chance to double even a small portion of money should be looked on as an advantage. It also answers to the original question as a means of providing more food on the low amount of available assistance money. 

Obviously everyone can not use the funds to buy garden supplies because not everyone is able to garden or even grow a green bean in a pot beside a north facing window... but SOME people can. Why make fun of the idea that buying seeds can be a extremely good use of the money for some people? If I can buy a $2.00 pack of tomato seeds with some of that $78 and then turn those into several dozen plants, which in turn could produce all the tomatoes that I would need to eat for the next year ... I would say that was a good use of $2.00 worth of food stamp money. Wouldn't you?

Or do you just want to ignore the original purpose of this thread and make up ridiculous scenarios about driving 50 miles to save a nickle on bread?


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## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

I didn't know about being able to basically double a portion of your SNAP benefits when buying from participating local farmer's market sellers. I'm sure there're _a lot_ of other people who also don't. Thank you! Back when I needed, and gratefully used, food stamps, I didn't know about the seeds thing either, until someone like you was kind enough to tell me. Maybe it doesn't work for everyone, but that doesn't mean it won't work for a lot of people who never even knew they could try it. 

I think the key to staying ahead of the game --no matter what the subject is-- is to try to stay flexible in your approach; to be open minded. For instance, if it's a new or different approach and you want to know if it'll work for you, give it the same amount of fairness when you're judging it that you would like from others if it was _you_ who had a new idea.


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

Thanks for that comment. 

Yes. I totally agree. Staying ahead of the game takes a lot of forms too. Instead of operating at a "needs for the moment" level at all times like so many with little income tend to do, you need to keep the future in mind. 

For example ... You may need a can of beans to go with your rice tonight. Most low income families would just buy that can of beans. A person "staying ahead of the game" would look a bigger picture. For probably the same money or slightly more they could buy a package of dry beans that, with the addition of some water, could make four times (or more) the amount of beans in that can. By cooking their own beans and freezing the extra for tomorrows need they have now effectively stretched that food bill considerably. 

That type of forward thinking is what I worked on with my daughter and it has really had benefit for her.


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