# Big Problems (Great Dane)



## HendricksHearth (Jul 18, 2009)

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if anyone here might have some advice or information. We have a Great Dane going on four years old that has had digestive issues off and on for years now. He will be fine for months, weeks, or days and then will have bouts of diarrhea. The vet ran his bloodwork recently again and couldn't find any problems with his organs or counts. She even ran a specialized test for his pancreas because she thought he might have a problem there, but everything has been negative. His x-rays, fecal test, heartworm test, lyme/etc. tests all came back negative, too. She gave him a super-wormer just in case and prescription anti-vomiting/anti-diarrheal. We have spent a fortune and can't find any medical reason for his issue. 

To add to the problem, our Great Dane joined our family as an adult and he was raised in an outdoor kennel. We started back from scratch with crate training in our home after making sure he was housebroken, but he has issues there, too. If you confine him, he uses brute strength to break his way out of anything eventually- doors, metal cages for giant breeds, walls, wood, metal, whatever. He will bring the house down if he needs to- and it isn't because he is distraught. He just wants out, but once he is out he gets bored and destroys the house anyway. We took him to trainers and classes several times and the only thing that has worked is to have him wear a police dog muzzle that he can eat and drink through while we are gone. That way he isn't confined and can't get anything in our home. 

If the confinement issue was the only problem, that would be one thing, but now you understand it is three times as bad- he is a giant, he is loose in the house, and has an upset stomach randomly. I am literally tearing the carpet out of our home right now to replace it with tile because of him. Between trying to train him and find a reason for his stomach problems, we have spent over $5K on this dog. My husband is at the end of his tolerance and I am right beside him- I am almost to the point where I just want him gone already. I have never been like this with any pet- I have two other dogs that we have raised from puppies and they are both fine. No problems at all like our Dane has. We also just lost our 17 year old dog that we had since birth and we never had a problem with her like this either. 

On top of everything else, he has allergies that are acting up right now so aside from his stomach, he is licking his paws and scratching that wakes us up at night. Over the years we have switched his food very slowly from one top brand to another and even tried raw for a period in case there was something other than meat that he was sensitive to, but it seems to be something outside and seasonal that bothers him. On every food he had the random diarrhea at some point. We know that he does not get into anything, we even walked him on a leash for a while and it still happened. We have a prescription steroid spray from the vet, but I try to use it as little as possible because steroids aren't a great solution, either. 

Did I mention that I paid an arm and a leg for him? He is out of Champion parents on both sides and was sold to me as a show prospect. In between stomach problems, I have sucessfully shown him just a few weekends total in the years we have owned him, but other than that has never been in good show condition because of his issues. He was supposed to be my foundation stud for my breeding program, but because of all of his problems, we never even had the money to purchase a show-quality female and now I can guarantee you that we will never own another Great Dane. Even if I wanted to (I don't), my husband would go through the roof- he has had it completely and I understand why! 

My Dane's breeder said she would provide lifetime support and then dissapeared for about a year. When I finally got in contact with her and asked for help, we either didn't get a response at all or a very generic reply without any real information. She has since dropped off the earth again.

So here we are. I love this forum and thought that if anyone might have some ideas, it would be some of you. I appreciate you taking the time to read this and thank you in advance for any responses.

Lauren


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## glazed (Aug 19, 2006)

Is the scratching worse at night? Or an all day issue?

About the diarrhea ... worse morning, midday or night?


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## HendricksHearth (Jul 18, 2009)

Thank you for your reply- the scratching and licking (more licking than itching occurs) is off and on all day and night. The diarrhea seems to occur completely random, too. I would say it has happened more often during daylight hours, but he also has random bouts at night. 

Lauren


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

What foods do you feed him? That could be the issue.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

Has your vet tried Metronidazole? Are you on well water? Can he get to rain puddles?


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## deetu (Dec 19, 2004)

couple ideas... some food that falls off the table? someone feeding the dog when visiting not knowing problem? common ingredient in all the dog foods that reaches a point in his system? some upset that gets his colon all spastic? something on the ground outside licked up before you realize he is not just smelling?

my dog always throws up after she HAS to lick the bird poop she is smelling outside...yuck


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## Rouen (Aug 19, 2004)

HendricksHearth said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> ... If you confine him, he uses brute strength to break his way out of anything eventually- doors, metal cages for giant breeds, walls, wood, metal, whatever. He will bring the house down if he needs to- and it isn't because he is distraught. He just wants out, but once he is out he gets bored and destroys the house anyway. We took him to trainers and classes several times and the only thing that has worked is to have him wear a police dog muzzle that he can eat and drink through while we are gone. That way he isn't confined and can't get anything in our home.


give him a job, after all he is a working breed. he's using his mind, in ways you dont want him to, and giving you a very clear message - he's BORED. 
as for the allergies, my boy Dingo has seasonal environmental allergies and flea allergy. the vet prescribed benadryl for him, typical dose is 1mg per lb, I dose a little lower than that and his itchiness is gone.


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## HendricksHearth (Jul 18, 2009)

> What foods do you feed him? That could be the issue.


Right now he is eating Taste of the Wild, a six-star (top-rated) natural dog food. I am thinking of switching him to homemade at some point because it is the only thing we haven't tried yet. 



> Has your vet tried Metronidazole? Are you on well water? Can he get to rain puddles?


He is on Metronidazole right now and it helps, but only temporarily. Pepto helps, too. Once he is off meds, he returns to his original state. He never has diarrhea ALL the time, just off and on. We have city water and he can get to rain puddles, but he just runs through them like my other dogs. 



> couple ideas... some food that falls off the table? someone feeding the dog when visiting not knowing problem? common ingredient in all the dog foods that reaches a point in his system? some upset that gets his colon all spastic? something on the ground outside licked up before you realize he is not just smelling?


My husband and I are the only ones here and neither one of us feeds table scraps. We think there might be connection between the dog foods and his licking his paws and scratching possibly, but I seem to remember him doing that seasonally on a raw diet, too. Someone suggested last night that he has leaky gut syndrome or irritable bowel syndrome- this has been going on since we purchased him, so I guess anything is possible. The only thing I ever see him get into while running around is sometimes he will take a bite of grass, but my other two dogs do this too and they are fine. 



> give him a job, after all he is a working breed. he's using his mind, in ways you dont want him to, and giving you a very clear message - he's BORED.
> as for the allergies, my boy Dingo has seasonal environmental allergies and flea allergy. the vet prescribed benadryl for him, typical dose is 1mg per lb, I dose a little lower than that and his itchiness is gone.


We have stuffed Kongs frozen many a time along with other interactive toys, given him plenty of training exercises, and he runs every day before work and right after we get home until he flops in the den. He gets to play with two other dogs all the time and is loose in the house to window gaze, play with his toys, whatever. He is only alone half a day five days of the week at most because my husband has different hours than I do and is with us all weekend. My other dogs are both working dogs too even more so than he is (a Siberian Husky and a Catahoula Leopard Dog X) and they are completely normal, happy, healthy dogs. My Dane is destructive when he is bored after he breaks loose from confinement, or maybe he is just jazzed up from his escape and is continuing the rampage. Normally, a tired dog is a good dog, but for him a tired dog is irrelevant if he is confined- he just absolutely refuses to be and he is strong enough to break through anything anyone can come up with within reason. We think he used to be an escape artist with stomach problems before we purchased him and we were never told, but that is another story. The breeder had nine show-quality Danes, why part with this one if he was so spectacular, especially after almost a year of owning him prior to my purchasing him? 

Anyway, we have also used benadryl for him- it helps a little, but mostly makes him drowsy. He will take more naps, but ultimately still licks quite a bit between. My vet said that benadryl works better for some dogs than others- we use it between steroid sprays anyway. Hopefully when the seasons change, this will start to remedy itself on its own like it did last year. If only we could get his stomach under control! My husband and I could live with all of the other issues (and we have been), except the random diarrhea has us at our wit's end.

Thank you for your thoughtful replies,

Lauren


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## HendricksHearth (Jul 18, 2009)

PS. Just to clarify, with the muzzle on and loose in the house, my Dane does not have any destructive tendencies. It is only when confined and we haven't even attempted that for probably more than a year now. These days, he mostly sleeps on the couch and patrols in between, but his big issue for us is the random stomach problems- it is just compounded by the fact that we can't confine him. I had to leave work an hour early yesterday because of it - my husband was done with the whole thing when he came home after a long week and there was yet another huge mess.

Thanks!

Lauren


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

"The breeder had nine show-quality Danes, why part with this one if he was so spectacular"

could be too many to feed and/or too many males.

I would start by testing your water on a good day and a bad day. if it comes and goes I wouldn't think it was your dog food. you many have to mix canned pumpkin in his food.
Has he been tested for coccidia?(SP?)pretty the vet has but thought I would throw it out there. it can come and go on an adult dog. Has your vet tested for spirochaetes?
I am so sorry you are having problems.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

I would reccoment you joining a group called wholesomedane, it is a yahoo group but there are some of the best Dane experts there and can reccomend products most never hear of.
Fair warning though, they dont believe in feeding danes any type of kibble as it is the source of most issues in dogs and are a raw feeding group.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Yupers, how about trying a raw food diet??

I'd turn him into an outside dog......


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## Saffron (May 24, 2006)

A thought on the licking and itching - perhaps he has an allergy to the carpet or couch? You saw he licks his paws, where does he scratch?

As far as the confinement - sound like he may have been raised in that manner and not treated as properly as he should, that can cause such behavior. Is he's mad about being locked up, won't take it, breaks free, and is going to get you back. Danes have a wonderful mind. Do you give him outdoor free time?

Describe the type of diarrhea he is having.

I know you say you have tried all foods, but are you only using the "show quality" foods or have you truly tried everything? Danes are well-known for having super-sensitive stomachs anyways. The only two foods I have ever fed my Dane are Purina (Large Breed) and occasionally Iams because she likes the flavor (not my favorite but with do in a pinch). I do not raw feed at all. I tried it when my Dane was younger and she had some serious digestive issues from that. My SIL used to breed, train, and show pitbulls so when I have questions, she is who I ask. She recommends the Purina over all others for many reasons, including the fact that it is better for certain dogs with stomach issues. After researching, I agree.

Also, how rapidly/slowly are you changing the food?
Over a period of how long would you say it takes to switch?
How much do you feed him during the day?
Have you noticed the diarrhea happening within a time frame after he eats or it is random?
Have you ever fed him a food where the diarrhea was gone for a longer period of time?
Have you compared the ingredients in the foods you give him?

I am not an expert by any means, but all Danes are different. The breed as a whole is wonderful and I would say don't let this one experience truly color your feeling on Danes.


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## Saffron (May 24, 2006)

for the WholesomeDane group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WholesomeDane/summary


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## Saffron (May 24, 2006)

www.danesonline.com 

BTW - what color is he?


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## HendricksHearth (Jul 18, 2009)

> I would start by testing your water on a good day and a bad day. if it comes and goes I wouldn't think it was your dog food. you many have to mix canned pumpkin in his food.
> Has he been tested for coccidia?(SP?)pretty the vet has but thought I would throw it out there. it can come and go on an adult dog. Has your vet tested for spirochaetes?
> I am so sorry you are having problems.


I will try the canned pumpkin with the food and see if it helps. I know my Dane was checked for coccidia, but I am not sure about spirochaetes/lepto. I will ask when I call. 



> Yupers, how about trying a raw food diet??


I think I mentioned it, but I used to feed a raw diet to all of the dogs. The only reason we put them back on kibble was because it was too expensive and I am losing my job. I am going to try a modified raw diet and see how that goes- like Sojourners mix with raw meat. 



> A thought on the licking and itching - perhaps he has an allergy to the carpet or couch? You saw he licks his paws, where does he scratch?


We have leather couches and are tearing out all of the carpet, but I guess anything is possible. He scratches his belly mostly, but he really does not scratch that much. He does lick his paws a lot, but it comes and goes every year, so I don't know. 



> Do you give him outdoor free time?


Yes, he goes outside every morning and every afternoon to run and play until he is ready to come back inside and flop. We have a large fenced in yard with hills. 



> Describe the type of diarrhea he is having.


Formed, but mushy. Sometimes with a little clear mucus, sometimes not. Normal color, no blood.



> I know you say you have tried all foods, but are you only using the "show quality" foods or have you truly tried everything? Danes are well-known for having super-sensitive stomachs anyways. The only two foods I have ever fed my Dane are Purina (Large Breed) and occasionally Iams because she likes the flavor (not my favorite but with do in a pinch). I do not raw feed at all. I tried it when my Dane was younger and she had some serious digestive issues from that. My SIL used to breed, train, and show pitbulls so when I have questions, she is who I ask. She recommends the Purina over all others for many reasons, including the fact that it is better for certain dogs with stomach issues. After researching, I agree.


I really think we have tried just about everything. When we purchased him, he was on Purina and he didn't do well right from the start. We talked to the breeder who consulted with Purina and tried a few different formulas over time, but he always had loose stools and left food in the bowl (the only brand he did that with). Over the last years, I think we have tried Nutro, Diamond, Eukaneuba, Purina, Blue Moon, Solid Gold, Orijen, Wellness, Canidae, and a few others, too. We fed him raw for quite some time- not barf, but the prey-model based diet. We tried hypoallergenic diets and dehydrated raw, too. 



> Also, how rapidly/slowly are you changing the food?
> Over a period of how long would you say it takes to switch?
> How much do you feed him during the day?
> Have you noticed the diarrhea happening within a time frame after he eats or it is random?
> ...


We always transitioned super slow and tried it at least a few months before giving up. The only thing that lasted for quite some time was completely raw and I think he did pretty good on that, but still would have the random bout, just a bit less often. We try to feed him as much as we can because he is slender, but it seems like his limit is two cups of kibble in the morning and four at night, pre-soaked in water. If we try to increase beyond that even by 1/4 of a cup, he almost always gets diarrhea. We have compared ingredients to the best of our ability, but can't find a common link that would seem to indicate he is sensitive to something in particular- he just seems to be sensitive to eating. We have trouble wrapping out heads around it- we have never had stomach trouble in any of our other dogs before; we honestly feel like he just can't digest properly sometimes. Is that possible- to have a dog that can't properly process food? 

Also, I don't know if this matters, but we found out after I bought him that my Dane was the runt in his litter and was also rejected by his mother. His breeder hand-reared him with a bottle before starting him on Purina. 

I have been a member of DanesOnline for years- have posted before about problems with my Dane. I have tried all the suggestions there and we are still in the same boat. Not that they gave me bad info or anything like that- just that we haven't found an answer for my dog. Sometimes I wonder if there is one. 

Thanks for the help- information-advice. I appreciate it.

Lauren


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## HendricksHearth (Jul 18, 2009)

PS. He is a harlequin. I personally feel they are more prone to health issues after all these years because of so many people breeding for color, but that is just my opinion. If I could have done it all over again, I would have probably looked for a fawn or brindle from generations of consistent health and type.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

For the allergies, a vitamin C supplement may help. You could give him a human vitamin a couple of times a week, or a natural food with high C content. I've used dried cherries as a treat.


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## Tracy (May 2, 2002)

What exactly were you feeding when doing raw and how long?
This sounds like a classic grain issue and raw feeding will help but not all raw feeding is the same. 
You can feed raw cheaper then a premium kibble.

I had 3 Great Danes my oldest we put to sleep last month. She was 14 years old. I know with out a doubt she lived this long because of raw feeding. I have raw fed over 10 years now.
My other 2 Danes are second generation raw fed 6 and 3 years old and we also have a 4 month old Bordeaux puppy raw fed as well.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Itchness on belly makes me think maybe grass allergy. Had a dog that was allergic to grass! No fun taking him outside even though he liked being outside..can you imagine that! A dog allergic to grass...have heard of dogs allergic to PEOPLE! Very rare but it does happen.


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## HendricksHearth (Jul 18, 2009)

Thank you for your replies- I will try the Vitamin C, too. My vet thinks that my Dane is allergic to grass or some seasonal vegetation- as soon as autumn gets here, he will probably stop licking and scratching again (at least I hope so!). 



> What exactly were you feeding when doing raw and how long?
> This sounds like a classic grain issue and raw feeding will help but not all raw feeding is the same.
> You can feed raw cheaper then a premium kibble.


When I was feeding raw, I tried to offer as much variety as possible- I ordered online ground rabbit, ground tripe, beef organs, etc. I also purchased chicken quarters, goat stew meat, roasts, pork necks, turkey necks, chicken livers, giblets, sardines, etc. Our staple was chicken quarters, but they averaged $1.39/lb and my Dane + my other two dogs would eat 5# plus or minus per day to keep their condition, whereas they take almost two weeks to go through a $50 bag of dog food. That does not include all the other foods at all or the cost of shipping them. I have considered trying to raise my own meat rabbits for the dogs, but I am just not sure we have the space and I am concerned about my own ability to dispatch them humanely and not feel absolutely terrible about it. 

How did you manage to feed your Danes so cheaply on raw? I can't imagine feeding 3 at one time and having one live to 14, that is very impressive! I am sorry for your loss, but I hope it brings you peace knowing that is an exceptional life span for a giant breed. The oldest one I ever knew of was 13 and was not in good health at all. 

Just for the record, I also feel that raw feeding is the best possible way to feed- I would do it again in a heartbeat if I can figure out a way to afford it. My job ends on January 4th (plant closure due to the bad economy) and I am already going back to school after work, so $ will be exceptionally tight for the foreseeable future.

Thanks!

Lauren


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## Saffron (May 24, 2006)

HendricksHearth said:


> We always transitioned super slow and tried it at least a few months before giving up. The only thing that lasted for quite some time was completely raw and I think he did pretty good on that, but still would have the random bout, just a bit less often. *We try to feed him as much as we can because he is slender, but it seems like his limit is two cups of kibble in the morning and four at night, pre-soaked in water. If we try to increase beyond that even by 1/4 of a cup, he almost always gets diarrhea. *We have compared ingredients to the best of our ability, but can't find a common link that would seem to indicate he is sensitive to something in particular- he just seems to be sensitive to eating. We have trouble wrapping out heads around it- we have never had stomach trouble in any of our other dogs before; we honestly feel like he just can't digest properly sometimes. Is that possible- to have a dog that can't properly process food?
> Lauren


Possibly he is eating too much?

I don't know as much about males. My stepddaughter's fil has two danes on a part-raw diet. They are always slimmer than my female due to the build.

But my female does not eat much at all. Maybe 3 cups per day. We keep the food available for the occasional hungry day, but she really doesn't eat much. Also, is the food always available? I have discovered my Dane likes to eat in the middle of the night! at around 2am.

I have a blue.


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## Tracy (May 2, 2002)

Lauren,

The variety you were feeding sounds good. How long did you feed raw for and did you see any signs that your dogs condition was improving on raw? It can take a couple months if not more to see improvements. 
It is also so important that when doing raw that the dog does not get any table scraps etc that has grains in it. Even such things as a piece of bread can cause problems if it is a grain allergy.
Sometimes if you have small children this can be hard to monitor but I still would bet it is a grain issue. 

People compare costs of raw but don't factor in the additional costs of vet visits etc which is so much more typical on kibble fed dogs. I would guess if you start factoring in your vets visits the kibble is not saving you money.
A lot of people have good success posting on craigslist asking for meat.
Post in the wanted section.
Something like this:
"My dog is allergic to most commercial foods si I prepare a home made diet. I will
take your old, freezer-burned meat off your hands! Anything that is uncooked and
minimally processed is great (no lunch meats, sausage, etc.). I'll take chicken
(including bone-in), pork, venison, beef -- pretty much anything!

Thanks for your help!"

Also hunting season will be coming up. Do you have hunters in your family or friends that hunt? We hunt here and will take the back straps and the prime cuts for us and the rest is saved for the dogs. If you have any local processing plants near you ask if they will save their scrap for you from deer processing. Venison is a great food source for dogs.
Look for sales. $1.39 lb is high on leg quarters. You would be better off buying a chest freezer and buying when on sale.
My friend that has 5 Danes at will pick up road kill from deer if it was a fresh kill. Contact the game warden in your state. Sometimes they will call you if requested.

Think outside the box. 


I know the economy is tough right now. You have to do what is best for you in your situation. Not sure where you are located but if you post your location maybe people here have old meat in their freezer as well.


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## HendricksHearth (Jul 18, 2009)

> Possibly he is eating too much?


Entirely possible, but the vet feels that he needs to gain some serious weight. I see him everyday and his skinny frame is normal to me at this point, but he is borderline too skinny despite everything. The dog food bag says he should be getting 5-6 cups/day, but he does not look good to me even at 6 cups/day and it doesn't do him any good if it is going through him. Someone told me about a recipe called Satin Balls with raw meat that is for weight gain- maybe I should try it?



> How long did you feed raw for and did you see any signs that your dogs condition was improving on raw?


I fed my other dogs raw for several years, but I think I only fed my Dane raw between 6mo-1yr. I think he was at his heaviest weight-wise on raw, but he still had his random diarrhea bouts. I noticed that he was very gassy after his all chicken or turkey meals, but I also read that is fairly common with poultry in general. I think he does best on red meats, but of course they are more expensive, too. 

I am going to go post a craigslist ad right now. I don't know any hunters, but I can ask around and see if I can find a processor. I already own a chest freezer from when I fed raw, so that is not an issue. It is pretty much empty right now, so I will look at the paper tomorrow and see if there are any meat sales.

I am located in Georgia, east of Atlanta. 

Thanks for your help!

Lauren


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## Willowynd (Mar 27, 2005)

I go through about 15-20 lb of raw a day- so I can understand your concern with the cost. I did the match though and I cannot feed taste of the wild any cheaper. Now I do buy 10 lb bags of walmart chicken quarters for thier meals 5 days a week, I spend $4.50- $6.00 on those depending on which walmart I go to. I do try to get chicken that is more natural when it is on sale and will stock up- but that does not happen often. I know many debate about the sodium levels in walmart chicken, but I do drain the solution and soak and rinse the chicken before feeding. My dogs do not consume copious amounts of water either- so I doubt it is an issue. Thier other meals- old freezer meat, venison and rabbit from hunters, canned fish (all I can get reasonably here), organ meat, farm fresh eggs with shells, sale meat, etc. I usually can feed the dogs for about $50-60/week on raw- less if I got freebies that week.
The stools your describing is not diarreah- it is a soft stool. Adding canned pumpkin should help- and also if you can leave the water out of his food. Soaking is good for a grain based kibble, but taste of the wild is grain free. I have a breed that is prone to bloat as well, and I never soaked kibble- if I did I would get soft stools as well.


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## GoldenMom (Jan 2, 2005)

Your raw diet sounds great for a normal dog. BUT with your dog's problems I would feed a very limited diet and SLOWLY add more variety. Pick one easy to obtain species and feed that and only that for 6-8 weeks. A short amount of time of an unbalanced diet in a grown dog will not harm him (try to pick a protein source that you can feed both meat and bone and if possible organ meat). Dogs can and do react to individual proteins (I'd say chicken is most common). If he does good for the last few weeks on this protein source, then try adding another protein source to the current diet, if he's not doing good start over with a different protein. I would probably give a protein source a month or so after you add it before it is declared "safe" (obviously you may know much sooner if it will be "off limits"). It may take you 6 months or more before you have a comfortable amount of variety in the diet, but it should be worth it.

One thing I noticed with my own dogs-my old dog is totally OK with Wal-Mart chicken but my young dog does not do so great with it. She is fine with my home grown chicken, so I suspect she has a reaction to the "solution" that is added to the commercial chicken rather than the meat itself.

I too feed a lot of venison to keep my diet inexpensive (I feed 2 large dogs and 5 cats). My best venison contact is a conservation officer who is friends with a state trooper. Most of my venison is fresh road kill rather than hunted.

You and your vet may want to explore Tylan powder. I haven't used it personally, but I've heard a lot of people talk about using it long term on chronic diarrhea dogs.


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## Pyrenees (Oct 23, 2004)

GoldenMom said:


> You and your vet may want to explore Tylan powder. I haven't used it personally, but I've heard a lot of people talk about using it long term on chronic diarrhea dogs.


It works as advertised.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

I would have said the same as goldenmom on the complex raw diet you talked about. I would do a strip down diet and start with the basics all over again. I normally strip them down to just chicken products for a week or so, then go from there, if no improvement then ill use some other sorce of meat as chicken can be an allergin. 
One thing I did catch is you said their is mucas in the stool, I would have a series of fecals done at different times, mucas means something is inflaming the digestive tract and thats how it protects itself. Have him checked for whip worms and giardia (sp?) as those can be hard to detect issues but cause the stool problem.
Do you have sod or any type of chemicals on your lawn? Have you had him tested for a staph infection? 
Can we see a picture of the dog and his skin? 
Probotics work great for digestive issues as well as allergies, try a probotic powder or pill, dont give the yogurt just yet.


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## Windy_jem (Feb 19, 2006)

Here is info on the Taste of the Wild recall....I hope you dog isn't involved in this but I thought you should know.



More Info on Taste Of The Wild Retailer Recall
Lead [-]

avatar

Posts: 362

08/18/09 5:23 PM

Below are responses received today from various users of TOTW concerning issues with the salmon formula:
=====================================================
Only the Pacific Stream with the best before date of 01 July 2010 (made in Gaston, SC) was pulled from retailers. The moisture was very low on this batch and we have received reports of feed refusal. The decision was made to pull it from retailers to avoid more customers having trouble with feed refusal. One or two people called about digestive upset so there was a concern that possibly another protein source was introduced into the food. There is not anything poisonous or dangerous in the food. It will not hurt your dogs. I have spoken with many people who are feeding this batch without any issues at all.

This is not a recall, simply a voluntary callback of the food from retailers that had this particular batch.

==============================================================
The Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream batch that has been pulled from the retailers shelves were out of the South Carolina manufacturing facility. The bag that you have would have come from the Missouri manufacturing
facility.

If your pet has digestive upset, please contact our office, 1-800-442-0402
==================================================================
The food was made in Gaston, South Carolina. ONLY the TDP0701 with a best before date of July 1st, 2010 from Gaston was pulled back from retailers.

Many customers have been feeding this to their dogs without any ill effects.

Iowa is not affected by this. Your food comes solely from the Meta, Missouri facility.

Again, there is nothing toxic or poisonous in the food. It had low moisture, which led to the feed refusal complaints. It had slightly higher than normal protein, which simply could have been because of the low moisture but there was a concern that possibly another protein source was introduced into the food. Since this is a limited ingredient diet, that would explain the few reports of mild digestive upset that we received (and I really mean only a few).
=============================================================
Just got an email from Diamonds and here is what they say ....

from Melissa Brookshire
date 18 August 2009 08:29
subject Taste of the Wild
mailed-by diamondpet.com

Dear XXXX
Thank you for bringing this to our attention and I apologize for any concern that it has caused you. The article mentioned is another example of bad information circulating around the internet. There is nothing wrong with the Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul, Premium Edge or Taste of the Wild foods.

Unfortunately, dogs and cats become ill every day and they are usually eating some brand of commercial pet food when they become ill because most people feed commercial pet food to their pets. This does not mean that the food made them sick, but the internet is quick to link pet illness to food.

Taste of the Wild did pull back one batch of Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream out of Gaston, South Carolina (TDP0701, BB July 1st, 2010) because of low moisture and high protein. There were several calls on this batch of food, and rarely is there more than a single call on a batch of food. Extensive testing was performed and there was nothing wrong with the food outside of the moisture and protein, so it was pulled from retailers so that more customers would not have trouble with feed refusal. Iowa is not affected by this situation and this is not a recall and there is nothing dangerous in the food.

I hope this helps alleviate your concern.

Sincerely,
Dr. Brookshire
==================================================================
I too got an email from the quality control dept. at Diamond:

"There has not been a recall of the Taste of The Wild product. We did put a hold on one lot of food because there was a concern that the product was over dried. Low moistures in the food could make the food less palatable to the dogs. This product was made and distributed on the east coast. Your product is made at our plant in California .

Since the recall in 2005 we have made a lot of changes and improvements to our quality control program. We have a new Director of Quality Control who oversees the programs at all of our plants. He also works with and inspects our suppliers.

We have added several more quality control personnel at all of our locations to increase the amount of oversight of the production operators and to handle the increased amount of testing that we do in-house on the incoming ingredients and the products. We have a new lab at the home office where we have and will be expanding our testing abilities by adding more equipment and personnel. We also use independent labs to test ingredients and finished product.

Our ingredients and products go through over 150 checks before the product leaves our warehouses. Our plants are routinely audited for food safety and sanitation by a highly respected independent firm (Silliker Labs, Chicago IL ).

I understand your concerns, but you can not believe everything that you read on the internet. The Taste of the Wild products are made with very high quality ingredients, and you have made a good choice in deciding to feed the Pacific Stream to your dog."
=================================================================
I spoke to TOTW this morning. It's not just higher protein (IF that's even the cause). There seems to be three main problems JUST with the Pacific Stream (not including the other formulas). Those problems are:

1. Possible machine malfunction
2. Wrong protein source added
3. Problem with South Carolina distribution plant
========================================================================


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

fyi - we raise our own meat (chicken, turkey, goat, sheep, etc) and butcher it ourselves. I save all the parts I don't want for a raw feeder to come and get for free. Its even all organically fed! she's thrilled and so are we - I appreciate all parts of the animals going to good use. 

Do you know anyone who raises their own meat and butchers it too? Might be a good source - course you would need to have the stomach to go through it, process it, save/toss as appropriate.

gl!


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## HendricksHearth (Jul 18, 2009)

> Soaking is good for a grain based kibble, but taste of the wild is grain free.


Thank you, I will try without soaking. I did notice a difference in the size of the kibble after soaking, but it if it is moot than I will do without for sure. 



> Your raw diet sounds great for a normal dog. BUT with your dog's problems I would feed a very limited diet and SLOWLY add more variety.


I definitely did start very slowly with all of my dogs and added variety one item at a time with a waiting period in between. He didn't ever seem to have an issue with any particular item except that he was gassy with poultry. I also have Tylan powder already - we used it previously after several breeders recommended it to eliminate tear stains on the white part of his muzzle. It didn't work on him and he still had his same old off and on issues while on it, unfortunately. 



> Have him checked for whip worms and giardia (sp?) as those can be hard to detect issues but cause the stool problem.
> Do you have sod or any type of chemicals on your lawn? Have you had him tested for a staph infection?


I know for sure he has been checked for whip worms and guardia, everything has been negative. We do not treat our lawn and our gardens are organic. I am not sure what kind of staph infection you mean- he has had skin scrapings, but the vet diagnosed allergic dermatitis (skin allergies). 



> Here is info on the Taste of the Wild recall....I hope you dog isn't involved in this but I thought you should know.


Thank you very much. I feed the High Prairie Canine Formula right now (the venison and buffalo one), but it does not look like that one is included in the recall/hold, thank goodness.



> fyi - we raise our own meat (chicken, turkey, goat, sheep, etc) and butcher it ourselves. I save all the parts I don't want for a raw feeder to come and get for free. Its even all organically fed! she's thrilled and so are we - I appreciate all parts of the animals going to good use.
> 
> Do you know anyone who raises their own meat and butchers it too? Might be a good source - course you would need to have the stomach to go through it, process it, save/toss as appropriate.


Wow, that is awesome. I wish I lived closer to you! :goodjob: I don't know of any other people around me that raise and/or butcher their own meat, but I did post an ad on craigslist yesterday so hopefully that will generate some activity. I am definitely feeling more hopeful after this thread about one day getting my Dane on track- thank you all so much. 

Lauren


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## Windy_jem (Feb 19, 2006)

I'm glad your dogs food isn't involved in the recall. Sometimes wild game like venison is too rich for a dogs stomach too.... 
I hope you figure this out.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

If you live in the south east, check out www.blueridgebeef.com they are reasonable and are really good folks who take pride in what they do. They sell all kinds of meat, no fillers or junk, just the whole meat and organs period.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

There is also a couple of people on the wholesomedane group that sell prepakaged raw all over the country, I think I have a link somewhere.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

Pyrenees said:


> It works as advertised.


I agree!
Dang why didn't I think of it  We use it if a dog gets the runs at a show.
Oh I see you already tried it. WOW you are in a pickle


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## glazed (Aug 19, 2006)

I am a homeopathic student, and I assigned myself to this case for one of my credit/clinical homework assignments. Hope you don't mind.

I've really appreciated all of your detailed descriptions in your posts, and it has helped me formulate a constitutional plan for your pet. I ran it by my professor, and he thinks this would be a good place to start for you.

I (we) focused upon these key issues in your pet: bowel/skin/stress.

By treating his constitution (possible stress) it would hopefully, and positively, address his anxiety/hyperactivity when enclosed, destruction, occasional urinary incontinence, lack of healthy bowel control, skin nuisances, and habitual nervous fixation on licking himself.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know what I've been up to over here  

If you are interested in hearing what we recommend you trying, at least for a place to start, please let me know.

Y'all can still incorporate all of the other healthful/helpful suggestions above (since they are strictly physical in nature) as it will not negatively affect constitutional work (which encompasses the WHOLE being.)


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## HendricksHearth (Jul 18, 2009)

Of course, I would be glad to hear what you recommend Mama Crow.


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## beerancher (Dec 30, 2008)

Wolf mom said:


> I'd turn him into an outside dog......


I would never recommend or make a dane into an outside dog. Sounds like the breeder was less than reputable and sold you one of her problem dogs


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