# Hmmm, where's the "giant" in these Flemish?



## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

I don't see it. Do you see it?
Lady changed her story on their age (1yr then only 10mo), said they weren't related, parents were huge and that these two were 15#. LOL :umno:
My guesstimate is 8#, I'll weigh them tomorrow, the buck is bone thin. Both had no water, old, gross pellets and why bother cleaning out the waste in the drop pans?? Animal lover in me wouldn't let them stay there.....They drank nearly their whole cup of water when I first gave it to them....

Golly, at least they actually are a buck and doe! 
We'll see if they can grow anymore or at least fill out. 

Really don't like the FG breed in general, way too many out there aren't "giant" what-so-ever! 11-12 pounds is not giant. They should all be bare minimum 15# or culled and culled hard! Everyone here has these, few can prove them to be over 12#. 

Doe- Both are fairly docile. Her lady parts seemed small, like how immature rabbit bits can be. 









Buck- Couldn't be bothered to stop drinking his water for a quick picture.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I see potential there for giant influence like the ears on that buck and the bone type... but either poor culling on top of the poor care won't let them get to size... Glad you got them out of there. :/


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Meh, we'll see. Maybe they can spit out something via genetics hidden somewhere in them and make quicker growing kits. If not, the dogs will love them.


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## Distaff (Sep 10, 2014)

At least now they will be cared for in their remaining time. It infuriates me to see animals kept like that. Can't figure out how some people seem to have no shame in letting others witness the disgrace. 

.,.yet where I live, neglect seems to be the norm. I really think society is desintegrating.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Do ate ALL of her pellets, buck dumped some, but most he gobbled up and water was bone dry over night for both....Probably should of given them less pellets for the first day, but didn't think they'd inhale it like that! =0 
Now that they're more relaxed, I can feel that the doe is a bit thin, too. =( Lazy, good natured buns.
Gave them both a second crock of water. 
Hopefully, the buck will learn not to be wasteful. Can't really do what I usually do with him, which would be to skip a feeding and give a little and repeat until I can give him a full amount. He's too thin to not be regularly getting food, especially now that it's getting a couple degrees above freezing at night.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

They may have decent genetics... I'd get them healthy and see what they throw. What's the harm? If nothing else there'll be more meat. 

I can't stand seeing animals from such poor conditions, I'm glad you got them and will help them.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Ok, read your post and realized I needed to still get weights!
So I weighed all 4 of my buns, pair FG and the rex doe & SF buck that have been living free. SF has been small from the start, his sire was small, so that didn't help him any. But he's sweet and blue, I'll always have a soft spot for a SF....so he stays.

I weighed them a few times to get a more accurate weight. Listed below, but can be seen in pics, too. Depending on how they sit in the bowl, the weight changes. So adding them up and dividing gets me, usually, a very close weight. Now if only you guys could feel their round bellies of food and water of the FG! I wonder how much that weighs? Probably takes up a fair amount of their weight, 1/3 pound, half? No idea. They're pooping fairly normally now, so I'm not too worried. 

FG Doe
7.88 & 7.84

















FG Buck
7.40 & 7.46

















SF Buck
6.87









Rex Doe, only one who stayed put and the numbers didn't change. She's due in a week or so.
7.67


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## bonnie in indiana (May 10, 2002)

I just lost my 1.5 year Flem doe. She died in her sleep, I think heart attack. She was a wonderful doe.. She weighed 22 lbs. I don't think that I will get another of her breed even though she was my most loved rabbit.

Thank you for rescuing these rabbits. Something that I cannot stand is a person that does not "fresh water" and feed and treat every day.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Good golly, they're still gobbling up ALL the food then water as they can shove down their faces!...Buck hasn't dumped any feed, he did toss his water cups, most likely after he drank it all and got frustrated. Will have to pick up bottles for them. They're getting grasses, weeds, sycamore branches, pumpkin and fresh grass hay. Poops still fairly normal, so I'll continue to let them gobble food like crazy. They should eventually realize the food isn't going anywhere....

On a related note, my fish ate so much last night that he bloated right up to a medium marble size and floated around....Salted the tank and waited, he got most of the poop out and is still round, but acting more normal. Will have to find a new way to feed my bottom dwelling fish....


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Give those FG some time. I think you'll be pleased. Just watch their feet for sore hocks. 

What kind of fish?

We raised rabbits when our kids were in 4H. My DH would like to again for meat but we may have to get a little more hungry before that happens. It may just take time and grocery prices escalating. Good luck with your new ones! How much did you pay for them?


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## ad in wnc (Jan 12, 2014)

Just an observation: the buck looks the size of a 5 mos litter of FG I saw when I was SF shopping. Any chance the seller got the age wrong? Also the way his skin hangs suggests dehydration to me. Glad you took them home with you!


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

No idea how/where you're seeing skin hanging down....?

Lady was lying about age, like I already mentioned in the OP, she said they were a year old and then changed it to 10 months. The only thing she got right is that they are a buck and doe. She could be wrong on breed as well, maybe FG mixes, who knows. 

They had no water in their cages when I went to see them, also posted in OP. They just had months of build up, dry bottles and gross, old bits of pellets left in their jfeeders. 

In other news, SF was culled this morning.


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## ad in wnc (Jan 12, 2014)

In the second pic the skin is hanging in folds around his back leg. Also in the second pic on the scale. I had a puppy with skin folds like that and the vet worried about dehydration.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Yea, I only do the pinch test. Everything folds when sitting weird and pressed in odd ways.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

If your fish bloat try a better food, feeding smaller meals, and offering peas which are a natural laxative for fish. Went through this with my "special needs" betta.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

No, he's just a gluten that went after an algae wafer ~at night~ with zero lighting. He should of been asleep like the others, but he's a nightowl of a fish....

I used salt and time, feeding him more would of killed him. No room in there after eating two big wafers!

He's totally fine now, I feed 3-6 times a day, they are baby Discus. 
I have some wood floating, hoping it will sink soon because it's concave underneath and I can slip food under it so the discus can't eat it. But the wood is taking its merry time, lol. 

Rain finally broke for a bit! Will get new weights on them to see if they're growing any. Have some hot wire fence and willow trees to plant as well. Those darned horses better not find a way to eat them!!!


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Well, have to redo the weighing and pics...Just don't believe he could be less with how he's eating.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Well, how do you feel he looks compared to before? If he was severely dehydrated he could have been bound up and now he is eating and drinking more properly his system is clearing out?


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Alright, reweighed him and he's 8.33#.
Gosh darn pound of food and water! 
Guess I'll have to wait much longer to see weight changes based on muscle growth and not just full or empty stomachs!


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## ad in wnc (Jan 12, 2014)

He looks much better!


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## bonnie in indiana (May 10, 2002)

Fish food??????????????????????????


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## 64102 (Sep 21, 2010)

that rabbit may be a FG/mix. Our purebred FG would never be mixed with these colors......unless the breeders did not care about colors.
Try worming them...... they should put on more weight after that.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

"Sandy" is "chestnut" so it is an accepted color. And that is what these two are, chestnuts, a very common and usually hated color in most other breeds.

Most people, at least here, don't have a well bred FG. They just have whatever popped out of FG rabbits with probably random breeding just to make more of these, usually expensive selling, rabbits. Ones from a good breeder are $150 easily, but people want the same thing for dollars. Same thing has happened to the Silver Fox, everyone wants one, but no one wants to pay $60-90 per rabbit. It's why I quit SF, everyone around me was selling pedigreed for $35 or a little more and selling all kits in the litter.


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## summerluvin_ca (Sep 30, 2014)

they look like our buck and doe! we love the two we have started with. 

I had no problem paying $120 for our pair, as we are just starting out and breeding for meat consumption only.


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## 64102 (Sep 21, 2010)

secuono said:


> "Sandy" is "chestnut" so it is an accepted color. And that is what these two are, chestnuts, a very common and usually hated color in most other breeds.
> 
> Most people, at least here, don't have a well bred FG. They just have whatever popped out of FG rabbits with probably random breeding just to make more of these, usually expensive selling, rabbits. Ones from a good breeder are $150 easily, but people want the same thing for dollars. Same thing has happened to the Silver Fox, everyone wants one, but no one wants to pay $60-90 per rabbit. It's why I quit SF, everyone around me was selling pedigreed for $35 or a little more and selling all kits in the litter.


There is no such acceptable color " chestnut" in pedigree FG. There is " SANDY" Acceptable colors are........Sandy, Fawn, Black, White, Blue, Light Grey,( this color is more like a chinchilla) Grey ( same...chin ) and Steel. From the pictures it looks like there is too much grey. That is why I said I thought it was a mix.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Many breeders mix colors within the breed. Purists loose their minds over that, rest of the world doesn't give a toot. And people who are breeding for quick dollars, they also don't give a toot.
Since they didn't come with a pedigree and matching tattoo, even if they looked and grew to perfect FG standards, they are mutts. Just like any rabbit you can buy, even pure straight from a breeder, if the pedigree doesn't come with it, they are considered a mutt. 
So yes, like from the start, these are chestnut colored, big eared, big footed, neglected mutts. Which also happen to be eating so dang much!!!


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

secuono said:


> Most people, at least here, don't have a well bred FG. They just have whatever popped out of FG rabbits with probably random breeding just to make more of these, usually expensive selling, rabbits. Ones from a good breeder are $150 easily, but people want the same thing for dollars. Same thing has happened to the Silver Fox, everyone wants one, but no one wants to pay $60-90 per rabbit. It's why I quit SF, everyone around me was selling pedigreed for $35 or a little more and selling all kits in the litter.


I raised SF and holy heck you hit it right on the head.  They often buy their stock for 75.00 or more and then wonder why they can't SELL the entire litter for 75.00 each. But they still want their money back so they sell the entire litter for 35.00... As if more than 1 or may be 2 of the litter was WORTH selling, lol. Most have no idea how to evaluate their stock or to cull the ones that NEED culling. Most of the SF I still see tagged at 75.00 or MORE (mostly because they're from 'such and such' lines would NEVER have made it out of my cull pen, so far from standard it's horrible... but they have stand up fur and are 'very sweet!'. /end rant.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Have you added some oats and BOSS to his feed? If you introduce it slowly it might help him bulk up a bit. 

I've been working on switching mine over to fodder and natural food along with hay, getting away from commercial pellets. They are doing very well with the natural feeds. Their coats are shinny, nice body form without being over fat. Overall, I'm very happy with the change.

I just read the original post again and see it's a FG. I have Rex so there is a big difference in breeds. I did some research on the FG breed when I was thinking of getting them. Their high side of the weight scale is unlimited so you might be able to breed up and get some nice giants from them. Maybe they are so small from being starved and mistreated. Hopefully they have some good bloodlines in their pedigrees.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Tomorrow would be their weekly weigh-in, I think I'll go ahead and weigh them instead of waiting the month I said I would. =/
Buck feels more normal and filled in. He didn't want to pose or sit still!! Had to tell me the food was out, "feed me, feeeeeed meeeeeee!!"









Doe was very comfortable on her pottied bit of siding. =/
I move it to the clean corner, she moves it back to her toilet corner....










And the Rex, she's huge!!! And still holding out on me...where are my kits!!?
She has a white bin/drawer that she likes to lay in. It must stay next to the nest, but not on her peeing corner! Or she will fling the bin at you! =D
~beached whale!~ lol


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Rex is fat, looks like she's eating less, so should be any day now!


Buck weighs the same, but he feels like a rabbit now and not just a sack of bones.
Doe is still gaining, 8.91#.









Wassup doc?









Decided to lightly pose the buck like a FG, forgot to pose the doe.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

It's back to more rain today.
But my rexie had her kitties!!!
Tons of fur in the nest she made last week. Felt about 3, saw one, warm and toasty!
Don't want to annoy her too much, she's on her 3rd chance and don't want to ruin it for her.
=D
Can't wait to see them grow up! Blacks and chestnuts most likely.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Counted 8 or 9 kits, all fed. =D


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

ummm.... pics? :grin::happy2:


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Nest doesn't fit through the door put together, it's a plastic cat crate without the door. I'll get pics when they're a bit older or when there's no crazy rain and wind.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)




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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

ohmygosh they are so cute!


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Only way to see all of them is to roll them to the front of the nest, did that to count them and they were rolling right out onto the wire! Nest is a hill going to the back, then a hole w/fur n kits.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Warm and sunny today, so decided to pull out all the kits to check them over. There's only 5 left, 2 chestnuts and three black. Not sure if they wandered out and the dogs got to them or if mom messed with them. 5 look fat and totally fine, no cuts or chew marks.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

FG now feel normal, no sharp bones and you can feel real muscle. Tomorrow is their next weigh-in. Buck still can't be free-fed, but he does have a water bottle now. He's been tossing his water bowls all over the place once he drinks it all up. 

Tuesday I should be meeting someone for 4 Rex. And Friday, I should also be meeting my transporter for the other Rex from convention. Also getting two Harlequins from the transporter. Haven't heard back from the breeder from convention, so I'm worried I may not get them at all. =( 



The sheep wanted to see what I was up to. They were hoping I was feeding the rabbits and some food would drop. No such luck this time, fed them earlier in the day while the sheep were sleeping in the barn.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Ughhhh, now the doe is a digger.... *headdesk*


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

2 kits gone, one close to dead this morning, 2 fat. She'll be dog food as soon as these kits are gone or magically make it to weaning...


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Darn, sorry to hear it.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

3rd kit is warmed back up. Going to make a taller front bottom wall and hope it saves the last three...


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Mom is full of milk, these guys must be roaming....Made the wall 4.5in tall and shoved the hay away from it so they can't just crawl out. Other two seem 2x as big as the one that got out this morning, very strange. All 5 were there yesterday morning. =/


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Could she be kicking out ones she doesn't want or something? That seems weird if she's taking care of some and not others... but I'm not a rabbit expert at all.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Yea, I'm starting to think I'll give her a 4th try if these stay in the nest and grow. I'll move her to my other cage that is made of all 1/2 Ã 1/2in wire and place it in the shed. 
Gah, she's such a friendly rabbit, really don't want to cull her. When she was living free on the ground, she'd allow me to walk up and pet her.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Maybe if it doesn't work out you could find her a pet home? She's so shiny, if she's the one in the pic with the 'giants'. Hopefully she will raise the last ones.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Three are still in the nest and fed. She tried to rip off the half wall, but it's still there and no kits escaped. She's moody today, too. 

Need new batteries for my scale, so no updated weights on the FG this week.

Took pictures of the 4 Rex, it's nice out today. No one really wanted to pose, but that's ok.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

The two black kits are actually gold tipped steels, so there's just one black now. Black one is the one that was found near death the other day, full now and eyes are starting to open. It's funny how fat they get when there are few kits and lots of milk. Wish they would keep up this growth rate once weaned! ugh

















And here are the 3 Harlequins.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

I've decided to try and rehome the two FG, they are in good weight, growing and now I have purebreds again, I'd like to stick with all pure stock. It gets so hard with mutts, sometimes, they are extra sweet or a cool color pops up, then you don't want to eat it.... =/ 
I have two locals who are interested, hopefully they will take them home.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

FG weights-
Buck 8.54
Doe 9.69


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)




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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

So, I am wondering, was it the mom or the cage that caused the mortality?

If meat continues to as costly as shrimp we may start raising rabbits again...


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Before it was her, twice, so I don't want to rule that out. But looks like she's getting a 4th try.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Moved her and the kits into a wood/wire hutch. They can see, but just want to sleep. =)


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Billy the ram doesn't get rabbits.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Both FG found a new home with a nice couple.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)




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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

I'm thinking of putting the bucks from both groups together and same with the does. Right now, they're still together from the breeders, 1 buck and 3 does, other is 2 bucks and 1 doe. So it'd be cage one with the 3 bucks and cage two with the 4 does. Easier to feed/water that way for a couple more months before they are too big and might start fighting. 

The 3 mutt kits are one buck, one doe and one possible doe. =) They still rather stay in the nest area, but have started to leave the main sleeping area to potty in a corner. =D


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)




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## ad in wnc (Jan 12, 2014)

Absolutely precious! I have kits due in two weeks and I am really excited to play with the kits and fill the freezer!


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Kits are super fun, especially when they are 2wks to 6wks, in all their baby fluffiness!
You'll love it, but remember that they are dinner.


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## ad in wnc (Jan 12, 2014)

I don't forget they make great stew. They are just perfect to play with when they are little but as they get bigger they aren't so cute and start taking up too much cage space. That's how I now its time for freezer camp.


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