# cdt shots multipack question



## fiberfaerie (Apr 14, 2008)

I only have three shetlands and purchased a multi pack (plastic0 of vaccine, now have twin lambs and would like to use same vaccine, it has been kept refridgerated and well within date, new needle for withdrawal each time. However, package says DISCARD after initial use, does any one reuse these I would think it would still be viable if properly handled. What do you do?
thanks 
Glenda


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I discard it but if I had a week or so between shots, I'd keep it. It's not worth the risk for me a bottle here is only $8.


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## fiberfaerie (Apr 14, 2008)

Thanks Calleslamb, I will but fresh and uses for both doses and discard. I will wait a couple of more weeks and see if the other ewe "surprises me"
Glenda


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Yes, I'd adjust the timing of the shot to accommodate the most sheep. I have a friend that we share the bottle between us when it works out. You might ask your vet the next time you see him though. It might be okay. He gave me a bottle of selenium that was expired so he couldn't sell it but said it lasted forever. I was happy about that.


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## finnsheep (May 23, 2012)

fiberfaerie said:


> Thanks Calleslamb, I will but fresh and uses for both doses and discard. I will wait a couple of more weeks and see if the other ewe "surprises me"
> Glenda


CD/T should be thrown out after it's initially used. It might last for awhile, but I don't think it's worth the risk. The vaccine is cheap and sheep are not (especially after you buy the winter's hay).

It is a fragile product compared with Bo-Se and other injectables. If it gets warm or frozen, it must be discarded. Keep it well chilled and bring it out in a cooler when you go out to vaccinate. When you bring it home from the feed store (or vet), it should be chilled. Stores should give an icepack with refridgerated pharm products, but most don't. Ask for one. Or use frozen peas or something, or bring a cooler. I love the Playmate coolers for that purpose. 

Lambs should not be vaccinated after birth. If Mom was well vaccinated, and the lambs had sufficient colostrum, they should have good colostral immunity. Lambs are born with naive immune systems. The vaccine will "compete" with the colostral antibodies, rendering the lamb essentially "blank" and therefore at great risk of various infections. 

You should wait at least several weeks before vaccinating the lambs- I've heard anything between 2 weeks and 12 weeks. My vet prefers 12 weeks. It also depends how great a risk there is in your situation. Mine is low-risk. But there is no reason to vaccinate under two weeks of age if the lamb already has good colostral immunity.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I use the same CDT vaccine bottle multiple times until it is gone.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

mekasmom said:


> I use the same CDT vaccine bottle multiple times until it is gone.


You and I both:happy2: and always have done. In fact, nowhere on the box, the pack or the enclosed leaflet does it say to discard after initial use. I will use my pack for several years if needs be and only discard once it is past it's use-by date. Nor do I have lambs falling over dead from pulpy kidney, blackleg.........

Glenda, you appear to have done all the right things in connection with your vaccine and in your shoes, I would continue to use it. The choice is yours.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I would go ahead and use it. Now if it had been in the barn warming up during the initial use even a little, then, I'd chuck it.


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## finnsheep (May 23, 2012)

Ronney said:


> You and I both:happy2: and always have done. In fact, nowhere on the box, the pack or the enclosed leaflet does it say to discard after initial use. I will use my pack for several years if needs be and only discard once it is past it's use-by date. Nor do I have lambs falling over dead from pulpy kidney, blackleg.........
> 
> Glenda, you appear to have done all the right things in connection with your vaccine and in your shoes, I would continue to use it. The choice is yours.
> 
> ...


Bar Vac CD/T does say to use up entire contents when first opened. This implies that it should be thrown out if it isn't used up.

Maybe different products don't need to be discarded, but when in doubt, throw it out! It's very inexpensive and I would never want to risk it. Just because it has worked out okay for one person doesn't mean that it will for another. Just something to keep in mind.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Finn, it hasn't worked out for just one person, it works out for most of my country. While it may be inexpensive I'm not into lining somebody elses pockets when it is completely needless.

Do the maths. I buy one bottle and booster shot my ewes then discard it. 6-8 weeks later I buy another bottle, vaccinate the lambs and then discard it. Sometime after that I buy yet another bottle to booster shot the lambs that aren't going to the works - and then discard it. Like hell! I'm only one person, now multiply that by the 1,000's of homesteaders doing the same thing and the drug companies would be laughing all the way to the bank.

The vets here keep a bottle in their fridge from which they draw off small amounts for those with only one or two sheep. I really don't think that all NZ vets are dolts.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I don't know about over seas but here the boxes do say to dispose of any un-used portions. But just like Ronnie's vets our vet will draw off whats needed and sell individual doses too. Teh key is to mix well and keep it cold. Poor mixing or if the pack gets warm and its not worth the risk (that the vaccine has become useless. Interesting the labels are different! NZ is way ahead of N America on sheep vetting and medicine approval.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Are we talking about the same thing? Aren't there 2 different forumlations of CD/T one is an vaccine and the other is something else? I seem to remember having to ask my vet which one I needed. What is a multi-pack? I can only buy a bottle that I draw from. Are there individual sealed syringes of the CD/T available? I can see those lasting longer. I don't mix anything - just buy the bottle. My vet did say that many things will last longer than the expiration dates allows but since handling is critical the companies will always error on the side to save their butt (and perhaps pocketbook). Maybe you can't sue for as much oveseas as we can here?


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## finnsheep (May 23, 2012)

Ronney said:


> Finn, it hasn't worked out for just one person, it works out for most of my country. While it may be inexpensive I'm not into lining somebody elses pockets when it is completely needless.
> 
> Do the maths. I buy one bottle and booster shot my ewes then discard it. 6-8 weeks later I buy another bottle, vaccinate the lambs and then discard it. Sometime after that I buy yet another bottle to booster shot the lambs that aren't going to the works - and then discard it. Like hell! I'm only one person, now multiply that by the 1,000's of homesteaders doing the same thing and the drug companies would be laughing all the way to the bank.
> 
> ...


In my area, there are quite a few problems with sheep that are dying of clostridial infections, when they should have been (were) properly immunized and boosted. Why is this? 

It may be that the vaccines are being stored too long, allowed to get warm, or are contaminated by reusing needles to draw the vaccine. I don't know why that is. I lost a couple of lambs years ago to enterotoxemia. Their mothers were well-vaccinated, they had more than sufficient colostrum intake, were vaccinated right on schedule, and were in a low-risk situation to begin with. It was diagnosed by a very competent vet. This was before I started discarding the vial after the initial use. The vial was probably 7 months old. I can't prove that this is what caused two otherwise healthy and unrelated lambs to drop of enterotoxemia, but it certainly got me thinking. And I would gladly line somebody else's pocket with $8 rather than lose $600 worth of rare purebred lambs again.

I think that the sheep vets in New Zealand are some of the best in the world, and I also think that they necessarily are more careful with their vaccines than the average flockmaster. No vet worth his salt keeps a used vial of vaccine for years, at least none that I know. A few weeks is one thing. If you are willing to take the risk, I don't think that several weeks will necessarily mean a problem if the product was handled properly. 

My vet sells vials (cartons) and individual doses. What he will usually do is call up the shepherd/cattle owner after he's done a call and has a few doses left, and draws the rest up for them to pick up. He never keeps it beyond a couple of weeks, if that.

I don't know a lot about NZ sheep management, but aren't feedlots not very common there like they are here? Are lambs banded or cut more often? Feedlot situations and banding increase the risk of tetanus and enterotoxemia. Grassfed only lambs don't very often suffer from pulpy kidney.

I'm not a vet (hope to be in a few years) and I don't know very much yet about immunology, but I won't risk it again. I don't know for a fact, but I rather doubt that the vets in your country keep a used bottle of vaccine for months and years on end. Vaccine is vaccine, whether it's in the US or NZ, and they do not last forever. I am sure that the pharm companies are trying to be extra careful because of fear of lawsuits, but I also don't think it's a big conspiracy to make more money.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Callieslamb said:


> Are we talking about the same thing? Aren't there 2 different forumlations of CD/T one is an vaccine and the other is something else? I seem to remember having to ask my vet which one I needed. What is a multi-pack? I can only buy a bottle that I draw from. Are there individual sealed syringes of the CD/T available? I can see those lasting longer. I don't mix anything - just buy the bottle. My vet did say that many things will last longer than the expiration dates allows but since handling is critical the companies will always error on the side to save their butt (and perhaps pocketbook). Maybe you can't sue for as much oveseas as we can here?


 By mixing I mean shaking enough to re-incorporate the components. Same vaccine I am sure. Except I use the 8 way which costs near enough the same as just a 3 way.


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