# Wondering about tree ID



## VA Susan (Mar 2, 2010)

Here are three pictures of a tree I'd like to identify. The tumors on the tree are more gray than black but they looked black that day because of recent rains. Anyone have an idea what it is? It is very tall with no lower branches. Is it some kind of a birch?


----------



## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

It looks like birch from here. Break a twig off, or whack the bark with a hammer or something and give it a whiff (with your nose), then you'll know.


----------



## tentance (Aug 16, 2012)

looks like firewood to me  wouldnt want that infection near any other healthy trees.


----------



## JawjaBoy (Jan 21, 2013)

Could be red maple. Looks like one I have at my pond, except for the tumors. That tree there looks kinda rough.


----------



## VA Susan (Mar 2, 2010)

Thanks everyone. I'll try the smell test. Thanks for that suggestion. I will look at red maples online too. Thanks. It's on a neighbor's land so we can't cut it down even though it's ugly.


----------



## SilverVista (Jan 12, 2005)

Yep, that's a big old birch tree. Entirely wrong bark for red maple.


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Looks more like a Red Maple than a Birch.
The trunk in the first pic resembles Red maple
The upper branches in the second pictures could be the smooth bark of Red Maple

..... It might not be either but I don't see a birch tree


----------



## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

looks like there is a lot of birch in background, i'm kind of leaning that way to.. is it a wet area?


----------



## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

So what is the disease the tree has?


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

primal1 said:


> looks like there is a lot of birch in background, i'm kind of leaning that way to.. is it a wet area?


Good observation

White Birch dies before it gets big up here in my country

Its hard to identify from pics when you don't have a close up


----------



## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

I agree with you about that first picture, Johnny. I'm still leaning toward birch though


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

You can work in the woods for years and just when you think you know it all you come across one very atypical. Also Southern trees have more moss and other kinds of crud growing on the bark which changes the color.

This is the first time I have visited this forum but I could have some fun here.


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

vicker said:


> I agree with you about that first picture, Johnny. I'm still leaning toward birch though


Now I am leaning towards agreeing with you rather than myself.

..... is it an atypical birch or atypical red maple? or neither

Its been warm enough winter that red maple should be pushing some red bud ...also


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Those background trees also look like Quaking Aspen ....


----------



## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Johnny Dolittle said:


> Now I am leaning towards agreeing with you rather than myself.
> 
> ..... is it an atypical birch or atypical red maple? or neither
> 
> Its been warm enough winter that red maple should be pushing some red bud ...also


HAHA! I'm leaning your way. That trunk sure looks like red maple. Maybe the OP will come back and set us straight.


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

I had time today to take a few pictures .... these are Red Maple showing rough trunk bark and smooth upper bark. I had another trunk picture of another Maple that did not turn out but looked more like the trunk pic in the OP


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

These are Yellow Birch. If you google birch there are other birches also besides White and Yellow. Google and then click on images (up in left corner) and you will have hundreds of Birches to look at. And none look like the OP pictures.

But now I am leaning towards it being a very old old old White Birch with atypical trunk bark.


...Maybe it is another specie .... named "Tricky Tree"ound:


----------



## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

it's a tough one for sure, they don't look the same to me and of course now that Aspen has been brought up.. :stars:


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

I'm wondering how far South Birch grows 

The top of the OP tree will pass for Birch but the trunk......... ????


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

http://isearch.avg.com/images?s=sideNav&cid={7D8525BD-7B0B-4F68-A958-DA6D108C23A2}&mid=c0d9ffa4907047d1a995d1544f45fe67-24021f9be047d0355d73f3c9d22a89a3848e1650&ds=AVG&lang=en&v=13.2.0.5&sg=&pid=avg&pr=pr&d=2012-06-03+18%3a23%3a21&sap=dsp&q=birch+tree+bark


----------



## defenestrate (Aug 23, 2005)

Cut that sucker down and cut off the blight lumps. Could be burl in there if it's not rotten. Burl fetches good money with knifemakers and other folks using it.


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

I am leaning on those background trees being birch also.

My final call ..... Hybrid cross Birch Maple


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

I never knew you could graft Birch onto a Soft Maple trunk ... too cool !!!


----------



## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

I guess you can, but it will not be healthy.


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

I am calling in an expert ... you will know him when he gets here.


----------



## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

I'm going for maple but not red maple . Looks like it was trying to grow some burls .Silver maple i bet .I got one it will put a gallon of sap a day on your car in the summer time 

http://treesandshrubs.about.com/od/selection/tp/Maple-Tree-Species.htm

But i been wrong before . Yep we got Birch here too


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Well that settles that

..... and now I will never know what Maple flavored Birch Beer tastes like.


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

I think Jim has nailed it 
http://maple.dnr.cornell.edu/kids/tree_silv.htm

Silver maple is not a Red Maple but is a Soft Maple. Soft Maple tends to be used synonymously with Red Maple but is not quite accurate to do so ..... Silver Maple is a Soft Maple but not a Red Maple. Silver Maple turns yellow in the fall like Hard (Sugar) Maples.

.... gets confusing


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Silver Maple has more loose bark, but maybe because it is a smaller tree, it doesn't show the loose bark, yet. Silver maple has skinny maple leaf shaped leaf. Soft Maple, AKA Red Maple has fat maple leaves. There is also a Red Maple that has deep dark red leaves all summer. Then there is the Japanise Red Maple that has lacy leaves. Could also be a Hard Maple, AKA Sugar Maple. 
Once you get leaves, you can be sure.
The Soft Maple/Red Maple will put out some red seed like stuff in the spring, before leaves.


----------



## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

I'm still a bit unsure, though the lower bark could pass for silver maple, the younger doesn't look grey enough.. could be the lighting in the picture though... Hope VA Susan posts a picture when the buds open!


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

primal1 said:


> I'm still a bit unsure, though the lower bark could pass for silver maple, the younger doesn't look grey enough.. could be the lighting in the picture though... Hope VA Susan posts a picture when the buds open!


I have to agree with you on that bark looking too white for Silver Maple !!!!!

I have been wondering if the photographer in the OP took a picture of the top of the tree and then swung down to take the base and somehow photographed the base of another tree of another variety !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I was a kid my Dad had a Silver Maple and various Red Maple in the yard. The Silver was later to leaf and sooner to color than the Red Maple. Also the Red Maple colored red in the Fall and the Silver colored yellow. Then in the late '70's I bought and reconditioned a junk Belsaw sawmill. So I had a reason to need to learn to ID trees and fortunately an uncle who was good at it. I quickly learned to distinguish 
Soft from Hard Maples. The Silver Maple in the yard had a bark that seemed to have features common to both trees .... but because it leafed yellow I considered it as being a Hard Maple..... But as a result of participating in this thread I now know Silver is a Soft Maple.

Yep tree ID can be difficult ..... there is genetic variation within a variety.... there is the affect of regional and micro climate. A variety growing in a forest compared to one tree in a field..... and then in this case the true shape is distorted by disease and Southern trees having more mold moss and crud growing on and discoloring the bark.

Much easier when the leaves are on

I would like to have this one positively IDed.


----------



## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

My Tree Id teacher was pretty amazing at id'ing trees in winter and for sure it is something that takes many years but even he had trouble at times and he has been in the forest near 40+ years. I'm just an amateur still but it's fun trying


----------



## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

we could know for sure in a couple of weeks if VA Susan could get a branch and stick it in water in the house!


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

primal1 said:


> we could know for sure in a couple of weeks if VA Susan could get a branch and stick it in water in the house!


You have done a lot of good thinking here. ..... If she could get up to a branch .... maybe she could just wait till leaves have expanded and take a pic. for us.

This tree is really irritating me. My logging has always been just for salvage of wind falls or when a building lot needed cleared. I was never professional. But for past 23 years I have walked dogs in the woods and fields around here.... this being my quality time each day.... I have always had to ID the trees where ever I walk .... which is on about a dozen different properties besides my own. For me IDing trees is an instinct.... not even a conscious choice !!!!!!!!!! Some of the junk species I never bothered to learn ..... but I know a few .... like Ironwood ..... the one that makes the sparks fly !!!! But this tree is really irritating me .... sometimes a tree can look like it could be either of two species .... but I never thought I would see the day when I would be wondering if a tree was either Birch or else Maple !!!!!!!!!!!!

The top branches in the OP looks Birch .... the mixture of light smooth bark and some rough bark looks Birch although not as white as it should be .... but that could be due to mold. There is character there hard to qualify concerning shape of branching of the multiple trunks which my gut is telling me is Birch ????

.... now having said this .... i look at the trunk again and that is not Birch ?????????????????


----------



## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

Ironwood junk tree??? HAHA I have a very old ironwood work bench in my kitchen, i love it's wood! The property i work on is littered with them, some of them over a foot thick and i can't wait to find some that need to come down!
I hear ya, thats why i suggested we get a branch i so need to know! HA


----------



## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

Sorry just realized there are quite a few trees know as ironwood so we may be talking about different tree!


----------



## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

My experience is as a log scaler, and IDing them laying in the ground, sans leaves. They look a lot different standing up! Haha she can do the smell test for birch. That would either confirm or eliminate that choice.


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Being a jack-of-all-trades ... I scale also.... I use Doyle scale, Scribner, International, Universal, and I know how to make a Cheater stick. I also have a cruising stick but I decided to put a handle on and use it as a cane. Makes a great conversation piece.

I sniffed that Yellow Birch and it had no odor .... then I remembered that I can't smell anything due to many sinus infections... I guess i will need to take along an assistant with a good nose if I am going to sniff ID trees.

I think this thread is fizzling... HT should have a special place for us Woodsmen to hang out .... socialize etc.


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

vicker said:


> My experience is as a log scaler, and IDing them laying in the ground, sans leaves. They look a lot different standing up! Haha she can do the smell test for birch. That would either confirm or eliminate that choice.


When I have trouble IDing on the ground..... I just stand them back up ound:


----------



## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Sometime they end up upside down though, then it really gets confusing.


----------



## Badger (Jun 11, 2010)

Although I am not very well versed in the trees of Virginia I will go out on a limb :teehee: and throw my .02 in the ring. My guess is a Linden also known as Basswood. The damage to the tree is galls caused by insects - Most likely a small wasp. 

I wouldn't bet the farm on it but I think it's pretty accurate. Leaf buds and bundle scars are always helpful when IDing winter trees.


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Badger I think you probably IDed it.... Here is trunks and smooth bark on limbs

My only concern is the light bark in the OP looks more off white than light grey/silver.

http://www.qdma.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16938


----------



## Badger (Jun 11, 2010)

If you noticed in the picture of the branches there is a zig zag pattern in the new growth. Bark color and new growth color can be influenced by many environmental factors such as mineral content of the ground, available moisture, even exposure to sunlight.


----------



## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

I just don't see it, not saying you're wrong at all Badger but on my screen that bark still looks too white to me.. i don't really even see it as really light grey:shrug:


----------



## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

I still so need to know!?


----------

