# Above ground root cellar?



## GBov

Our water table is just about 2 ft below ground level so digging one is out of the question.

But digging a pond is not!

And is on my to do list lol. 

I suddenly thought, what if I take the pond spoil and mound it up OVER my root storage/cellar instead?

So what is cheap and sturdy enough to take not only my budget limits but also the weight of soil?

The largest possible size as well so it can do double duty as a storm shelter if it has too.


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## taylorlambert

I saw on a friend made at his last house the ground was pure rock underneath. He found a deal on some used manhole sections. They are about 8 feet across inside diameter. The stack up and flange together and the bottom section had a 36 inch access hole in the side for a water pipe. first he wanted to try them horizontally but was having trouble making them stay together. He and I talked about stacking them. We leveled off the floor and set the first one down. then set the other on top with a boom truck. We added tar in the joints like they take. It made a pretty tall structure about 10 feet high. We formed the top and poured it. Then opened the bottom water pipe hole up to almost 4 feet. To insulate it we added brought in dirt after a few weeks piling it as it came in. 

It stays at a pretty constant temp. Its in the shade a and all the dirt mounded around it works pretty good. The shelving was a pain in the ass. It all had to be round with flat facing. Once he made the template for the shelves it went pretty quick. THey have also gon through a tornado in it to.


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## idigbeets

Have a cold basement? Cold corner of the barn? Frame it out, insulate it heavily, floor, walls, ceiling. I did this in my barn for an above ground cold storage and so far it works well. In summer if I need to store more items I can add a coolbot and air conditioner to keep it below 42F.


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## GBov

idigbeets said:


> *Have a cold basement? Cold corner of the barn?* Frame it out, insulate it heavily, floor, walls, ceiling. I did this in my barn for an above ground cold storage and so far it works well. In summer if I need to store more items I can add a coolbot and air conditioner to keep it below 42F.


One word.

FLORIDA!

Come summer time, NOTHING is cold, never mind cool lol.

taylorlambert, I like the idea of the culverts.


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## farminghandyman

I would consider a shipping container, I would most likely pour a thin cement cap on the roof, and then water proof the heck out of it and start to cover it,

I have seen school bus bodies use for in ground shelters as well, and top over with soil, using some concrete with some reinforcing for strengthening the roof, http://www.radmeters4u.com/arktwo/photoconstruct/photocon.htm

actual a old clean tank can work well, I used a 10 diameter tank for the top of my cellar, 

If I would have been thinking I would have just found a longer tank and rolled the whole tank in the hole and then built a floor in it or filled with some gravel and put a concrete floor in it, and welded on some angles and put in shelves,,


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## idigbeets

Are you willing to pay to cool this shelter/cellar? Shipping containers etc placed out in the Florida heat will suck down $$ to keep cool. Do you have ANY shaded areas that you can place things, I don't think mounding a little earth on top will do anything.


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## GBov

idigbeets said:


> *Are you willing to pay to cool this shelter/cellar? *Shipping containers etc placed out in the Florida heat will suck down $$ to keep cool. Do you have ANY shaded areas that you can place things, I don't think mounding a little earth on top will do anything.


Nope! And its not going to be a little earth, its going to be three or four feet over the top, mounded up the sides into quite a large hill. I am going to dig a nice pond so everything that comes out of it will go over the "cellar"

Will a shipping container take TONS and TONS of sand over the top of it?


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## PollySC

Same problem here in SC with the water table. What I wouldn't give for a basement ... I've been considering a similar idea based on how they stored sweet potatoes in the "old days". They piled them up on the sandy ground, sometimes on tarps, using pine straw as insulation. I'll be watching for more ideas -- thanks for starting this thread.


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## "SPIKE"

In the other root cellar thread, there is a link to a backwoods home magazine thread that has pictures of the one I built.
This fall/winter season has been way too warm for good storage in a root cellar in my area. Most of my potatoes were starting to sprout earlier than expected. Some of the winter squash have become food for the pigs. The sweet potatoes still look great.
But it is always good to have a storm shelter!:thumb:

SPIKE


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## idigbeets

I dont have any experience on the cooling capacity of burying a large container under tons of sand. I would imagine if you could keep the sand wet it might help... Sounds like a lot of work for something as simple as storing root vegetables. Are you talking tons of crops here?

I'd be more likely to put a few barrels of sand in an unused portion of house and store in there. It should offer less swings in temperature.


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## GBov

idigbeets said:


> I dont have any experience on the cooling capacity of burying a large container under tons of sand. I would imagine if you could keep the sand wet it might help... Sounds like a lot of work for something as simple as storing root vegetables. Are you talking tons of crops here?
> 
> I'd be more likely to put a few barrels of sand in an unused portion of house and store in there. It should offer less swings in temperature.


It will be more a storm shelter/cool place to play and camp for the kids with the additional food storage as a plus. If we loose power in the summer it gets dangerously hot down here. Having a storm shelter to sleep in thats nice and cool (enough sand piled up should give an inside temp of 75) would be a real nice thing to have.

Its going to be awhile til it gets built but as teh pond is top of the to do list, its right up there with it. Huricane season is rolling round again.


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## Studhauler

I know that some campgrounds are burring shipping containers into hillsides to use as storm shelters for their campers. I have not seen one yet, but heard about it as my uncle sells those shipping containers. I have one that I use for storage. They are very stout. I would not be afraid to put two feet of dirt on the top of it. To use a s a storm shelter, one would need a way to close and open the door from the inside. Also one would need to have some kind of ventilation. 

I have considered having the inside of the container spray foamed, to keep it heated in the winter. It would be very efficient, to heat or cool, if the walls and ceiling were insulated. There would be NO air leaks. The containers come with 4 very small vents located near the roofline. The vents are maybe 2 square inches each, just enough to allow for pressure fluctuation when shipping across continents. I will post a picture of mine later. We have had ours for 3 or 4 years now. Just this fall we noticed that some mold has started to accumulate on some items inside. We don't store food in ours, just junk, or treasures, depending on if it is my stuff or hers. This spring we will put a dehumidifier inside and plumb a drip line outside. Ours is absolutely mouse proof.


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## Studhauler

Here is a link to some talk on conex (storage container) being used under ground. Of course, burring underground and mounding dirt around and on top of it are not quite the same thing.

http://www.survivalblog.com/2007/10/nine_letters_re_questions_on_u.html


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## mosepijo

Last year we finished burying a 25' stepvan. Built shelves and potato bins on each side. Hubby put 4' mill yard waste on top. The first winter we had to leave the door open when it was 0 outside just to cool it down to 60 inside. This winter is has been maintaining 60 inside with the door closed. I think it will get better as the stuff on top composts more. So far we are very happy with it.


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## wvstuck

Depending on what you are trying to store in the cellar and what your expectations are you might not be able to do it cost effectively at all. I am not meaning to rain on your parade, but as many of us have learned... Sometimes you end up with wasted expenses and lots of wasted time. The purpose of a root cellar is to keep food above freezing during the winter months, it can't keep itself cool if it is constantly bombarded by hot sun warming the dirt deeply around it. It may make a good shelter but I have doubts as to whether or not it would keep food fresh. 



> Root cellars serve different purposes depending on their locations, and cellars in regions with excessively hot or cold temperatures are modified to suit their purpose. If winters are mild, as in Arizona or Florida, low temperatures can be difficult to obtain, no matter how deeply a root cellar is buried.


Visit this site for a little information on cellars and the principles.
http://www.hobbyfarms.com/food-and-kitchen/root-cellars-14908.aspx


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## mosepijo

Last summer when it was 100 degrees, we ran a sprinkler on top of it. We also planted a ground cover because yes the sun does warm up the brown soil. All the pumpkins, butternut squash etc. was still good up to April/May when we ate the last. Potatoes, even at the 60 degrees lasted well into March. I have it loaded with canned foods, etc. As for cost of ours... step van ($100)(stripped motor, chassis etc. off of it first) Just set it on the ground. Wood for shelves? scraps from previous jobs. Mill yard waste.. was free. Mill was 1/4 mile away. Cost of fuel for our dump truck and backhoe. And lots of time.


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## rhome

My neighbor used an ice and frozen food delivery truck cargo box.
8'x12'?? walk in,4"rigid foam insulation, aluminum sides, diamond plate floor and a very sturdy gasketed door.
Inserted into a hillside and bermed on 3 sides up to 6'...NO dirt on top.
$500 at auction for cargo box only.
Makes a great storm cellar (SE OHIO) tornados, stays cool 50deg in 90+ heat.


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## Bentley

Just an idea, but you might check with a local company that builds septic tanks. They often have miscuts, or damaged tanks that are still very waterproof. The challenge will be keeping them buried. Back in my old job, I often designed buried tank systems for storing different products. In high water table areas where a coated steel tank was called for, I would have the fabricator weld stub sections of 'I' beam to the outside of the tank. 
The hydraulic lift would need to be known in order to calculate how many stubs are needed. Then the tank can be buried with flowable fill poured in the excavation, but on the outside of the tank for ballast. You could then build an access opening with a ladder. A couple of 100 watt bulbs should light the inside.

B


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## vicb66

Storage containers aren't made to be buried.Apparently the steel skin is unable to deal with never drying out.The analogy an engineer from shelterwerks containers said it was similar to a leather jacket in the rain.The ability for the leather to dry out between bouts of wet and dry keep it from rotting in the water.Steel containers do not have that benefit when they are buried.


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## oldasrocks

I built ours above ground by starting with an old gas tank. 16 ft long and 10 ft diameter. I dug a cradle hole about 2 ft deep then tarred the tank on the bottom and rolled it in. I then cut a door in it on the end. (do not try this unless you know how to torch open a gas tank safely.) I first cut the hinge side and welded a hinge on then cut the other three sides of the door. Then I covered it with dirt from digging out the pond. For the floor I scooped enough rock in to make about a 6 ft across floor.


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## Bentley

vicb66 said:


> Storage containers aren't made to be buried.Apparently the steel skin is unable to deal with never drying out.The analogy an engineer from shelterwerks containers said it was similar to a leather jacket in the rain.The ability for the leather to dry out between bouts of wet and dry keep it from rotting in the water.Steel containers do not have that benefit when they are buried.


You are correct. However there is a simple solution. Sacrificial anodes. Find a cathodic protection company via google, and provide them the square footage that will be in contact with soil, and they will tell you how many anodes, which type, and how to connect them. They should last a lifetime in most situations.

B


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## BobDFL

Thought about the same thing in 07 when we build our house. Ended up after all the research, that for the long term I would be better off building a well insulated shed using PV for power that could run the both an AC unit and multiple Refridgerators and Freezers. We ended up currently using the MIL suite as our storage for freezers and refridgerator since MIL is only here for 6 months out of the year, but am still planning on build the storage building. I know it doesn't sound like the cheapest means but here in South Central FL, I've found soil temps in the upper 70's as far down as 4' (around the mound on which the house is build, water table was only 19" down and had a high mark of just 11").


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