# I've had It!



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I listen to the daily COVID-19 briefings go over the same things day after day. This is one of the most incompetent undertakings ever attempted. It is old strategy by old men. It requires Americans to hide out in their homes. It destroys the economy. It may or may not save lives.

There has to be other plans that are equal or better. Actually, it would be hard to come up with a plan that is any worse. They keep turning to big business to solve problems instead of to small, innovative companies. They don't seem to be using expertise from our great universities. Heck, with all the money the federal government gives to universities, start tasking them.

Get thinkers like Elon Musk and others together to come with innovative ideas. See what solutions technology and biotech companies can come up with. See what can be done to shorten the time it takes for drugs to be approved. Maybe have a new category between stage 2 and stage 3 trials, so some drugs could be approved quicker.

We need to attack, not retreat. I am embarrassed by this futile charade the government is putting on. Tell old people like me to stay isolated. Lock down nursing homes, retirement homes, etc. Ask for volunteers to make sure some, who might have trouble following the rules, are given support to be successful. Same for people with weakened immune systems.

If grocery stores can be open, why not restaurants? Is the likelihood of getting the virus less in a grocery store? The last 2 times I went grocery shopping, they had no wipes for wiping down shopping carts. Should they allow them to open without proper disinfection? Are grocery store workers less likely to get the virus than office workers? The shut down doesn't make sense.

Why continue to make surgical masks that don't protect the wearer? Why continue to make N95 masks that are difficult to seal and can only be worn for short period of times? Is no one capable of designing a mask that seals the eyes, nose, and mouth, is comfortable, and is reusable?

No one in government seems to be able to think outside the box, to have an original thought. History will question why the world all went crazy at the same time.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Why does E. Musk have any better ideas than the thousands of people now working on the problem? Have you some special insight that would come to a cure? 

The best minds in the medical field are being consulted, and the steps they suggest are being taken. Restaurants, ball games, conventions are discouraged because the virus spreads in person-to-person close contact. Do you get as close to your fellow shopper as you do to the person in the next seat at a ball game? Big crowds at ball games are not essential; groceries are. By the way; countries all over the world are doing what we are doing, but we are doing it earlier in the pandemic than they did.

If you have some good ideas or special expertise, let us hear the facts from you.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> Is no one capable of designing a mask that seals the eyes, nose, and mouth, is comfortable, and is reusable?


All these things have been discussed and explained.



MoonRiver said:


> History will question why the world all went crazy at the same time.


It's not the world.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Trump just announced that we have a very effective treatment now. Unless Trump is exaggerating, this treatment has saved the lives of patients who were literally at death's door.

The meds will arrive in NY tomorrow morning for big trials, and the manufacturer are right now gearing up to produce mass quantities. Apparently the cure is a combination of anti-malarial meds plus antibiotics. This makes perfect sense: the virus does damage lung tissue, and then bacteria might be taking advantage of the weakened tissue to attack the body.

As a person with a weakened immune system I am staying home, but, I have opened the bag of taco-flavored chips to celebrate!

It will, alas, be weeks before the meds are available to everybody who needs it, but, still, if this is at all accurate then the end is in sight!


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Oxankle said:


> Why does E. Musk have any better ideas than the thousands of people now working on the problem? Have you some special insight that would come to a cure?
> 
> The best minds in the medical field are being consulted, and the steps they suggest are being taken. Restaurants, ball games, conventions are discouraged because the virus spreads in person-to-person close contact. Do you get as close to your fellow shopper as you do to the person in the next seat at a ball game? Big crowds at ball games are not essential; groceries are. By the way; countries all over the world are doing what we are doing, but we are doing it earlier in the pandemic than they did.
> 
> If you have some good ideas or special expertise, let us hear the facts from you.


I was going to respond, but it would be pointless. All you did was repeat what the government is doing.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Terri said:


> Trump just announced that we have a very effective treatment now.


There are some studies that show the drug combination is very effective.
Time will tell.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Terri said:


> Trump just announced that we have a very effective treatment now. Unless Trump is exaggerating, this treatment has saved the lives of patients who were literally at death's door.
> 
> The meds will arrive in NY tomorrow morning for big trials, and the manufacturer are right now gearing up to produce mass quantities. Apparently the cure is a combination of anti-malarial meds plus antibiotics. This makes perfect sense: the virus does damage lung tissue, and then bacteria might be taking advantage of the weakened tissue to attack the body.
> 
> ...


No, the end is not in site. Not all people with a serious case of covid-19 will be able to tolerate chloroquine nor do we know if it will work for all patients. I believe there also may be a shortage of chloroquine. At least there won't be enough for it to be used as a prophylactic.

It shortens the time someone is in a hospital bed, but doesn't eliminate it.

Chloroquine, which is made by one manufacturer in the US and was approved in the country in 1949, *has been in shortage since March 9*, according to the American Society of Health-System Pharmacists. Hydroxychloroquine, sold under the brand name Plaquenil, went into shortage on Thursday, according to the pharmacy group, with four of its eight suppliers affected.

https://www.businessinsider.com/chl...-coronavirus-treatment-lupus-arthritis-2020-3​


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Elon does know how to spend government money.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> It shortens the time someone is in a hospital bed, but doesn't eliminate it.


That still frees a bed for someone else.
Production can be ramped up if it proves to be needed.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

This is an example of thinking outside the box. There should be a way to submit ideas like this to a group that would evaluate them for suitability in attacking the virus problem.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> This is an example of thinking outside the box. There should be a way to submit ideas like this to a group that would evaluate them for suitability in attacking the virus problem.


I feel certain they are looking at converting CPAP machines.
People don't need to be building their own.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Johnny Lee just came out with this plan for a Low-Cost Powered Air-Purifying Respirator (PAPR). Put on a pair of gloves and you are near virus proof.

I went to grocery store this morning and cashiers were the only people I got within 6 feet of and they weren't wearing masks or gloves. The 2 people in the store who have the most possible exposure to the virus and no protection.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> Elon does know how to spend government money.


Many of the great minds continue to make "hit records", not because they are able to create new inventions and ideas that ease our lives, but because of their name and wealth. I have met and known a few.
At a point, they absorb ideas and designs created by others, back it with their name and money. That doesn't make them a creative genius; it makes them a better businessman. That isn't bad, it just means they aren't always smart in the ways that you think they are.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Musk is the Edison of this generation.


> SpaceX and Tesla are both well suited to make ventilators, Musk said last week. After all, every Tesla car features a heating, ventilation and air conditioning system, and SpaceX engineers developed a life-support system for the company's Crew Dragon astronaut taxi, which is scheduled to launch its first crewed mission in May. space


And while production is being set up, Musk did what NY said was impossible.


> *Topline*: The Telsa CEO has been a prominent sceptic of the coronavirus crisis branding the pandemic “dumb” but on Monday confirmed that he had donated 1,200 ventilators to Los Angeles to help the city’s fight against the pneumonia-like virus.
> 
> The Tesla CEO tweeted that *he had bought 1,255 FDA-approved medical ventilators from China on Friday evening and had them flown into Los Angeles.* forbes


Just some of the companies Musk either started on his own or helped start:
Zip2
Paypal
SpaceX
Tesla
SolarCity
NeuralLink


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

*Crowd-Sourced Respiratory Ventilator Project*





*Rice engineering majors breathe new life into ventilators in low-resource settings*





Ultimate Medical Hackathon: How Fast Can We Design And Deploy An Open Source Ventilator

MIT Emergency Ventilator (E-Vent) Project


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> We need to attack, not retreat. I am embarrassed by this futile charade the government is putting on.


Isolation is how you attack such a virus. Deny it a new host and the spread stops and the virus dies.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> We need to attack, not retreat.


Attack with what? They're only just starting to work on a vaccine. Bullets, sticks and stones won't halt it.

When you have no weapon which is appropriate for the situation the only solution to survive is to take shelter and ride out the storm.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> Musk is the Edison of this generation.


Just Google "flaming Tesla". Edison never made self driving death traps like Tesla does. No thanks.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Farmerga said:


> Isolation is how you attack such a virus. Deny it a new host and the spread stops and the virus dies.


How about masks that work, are inexpensive, comfortable to wear, and reusable? Beats the heck out of isolation. Leave isolation for those at risk and let others get back to work.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

georger said:


> Attack with what? They're only just starting to work on a vaccine. Bullets, sticks and stones won't halt it.
> 
> When you have no weapon which is appropriate for the situation the only solution to survive is to take shelter and ride out the storm.


Cower in your house then.

Others are inventing cheap ventilators from over the counter parts, masks that work, etc. This is the time for entrepreneurs and inventors to shine, while others hide inside heir houses waiting for the government to tell them it is safe to come out and live again.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> How about masks that work, are inexpensive, comfortable to wear, and reusable? Beats the heck out of isolation. Leave isolation for those at risk and let others get back to work.


At this point a couple of those things are incompatible. Even if one was invented, it would take months of clinical testing before it could be produced and used on a mass scale.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Moonriver, I am not cowering in my home. I am however doing my part to make sure that this virus is handled so that I am not putting others at risk by using medical supplies and personal that can save lives. Itis not only those infected with covid that we are saving but those that are in accidents, have heart attacks or even a life threatening allergy attack and need the services of a hospital.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> Musk is the Edison of this generation


LOL



> MoonRiver said: ↑
> How about *masks that work, are inexpensive, comfortable to wear, and reusable*? Beats the heck out of isolation. Leave isolation for those at risk and let others get back to work.


Those don't exist.

Everyone is at risk if you're out there running around spreading germs all over town.

Your mask, filters, hose tubing and backpack can all carry the virus, and if you don't remove and decontaminate it properly you're really only increasing your risks.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Farmerga said:


> Isolation is how you attack such a virus. Deny it a new host and the spread stops and the virus dies.


And it costs nothing at all for the majority.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Farmerga said:


> At this point a couple of those things are incompatible. Even if one was invented, it would take months of clinical testing before it could be produced and used on a mass scale.


No reason it has to be FDA approved. No reason it can't be open sourced and anyone can make their own. 

*DIY Respirator #2 (improved version)*


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

Look at it this way: This isn't THAT fatal if you get it, even for older people like me with other problems, IF the hospitals are ready, and IF the government has stuff stockpiled (which they should!). The next pandemic might kill 40% of the population, so we are lucky this is what we have this time because if anyone in government has a brain in their heads, we'll be better prepared for the next one. 

This was a warning shot.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> No reason it has to be FDA approved. No reason it can't be open sourced and anyone can make their own.
> 
> *DIY Respirator #2 (improved version)*


You gonna trust Bubba McGee down the road to make his own mask, then go out among the public?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

MoonRiver said:


> No reason it has to be FDA approved. No reason it can't be open sourced and anyone can make their own.
> 
> *DIY Respirator #2 (improved version)*


That sounds reasonable and I'll go for a walk with that.
Can I also give or sell you one that I designed and manufactured and you won't sue me if there is a problem?
Can I get a promise from everyone and their loved ones?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MoonRiver said:


> Cower in your house then.
> 
> Others are inventing cheap ventilators from over the counter parts, masks that work, etc. This is the time for entrepreneurs and inventors to shine, while others hide inside heir houses waiting for the government to tell them it is safe to come out and live again.


Sad you have lost all faith in the free market, and want to only rely on a giant bureaucracy.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Jennifer L. said:


> IF the government has stuff stockpiled (which they should!).


Most of the "disposable" items (masks, gowns, gloves, etc..) have a limited shelf life. Stockpiling them, in great quantities, would be useless.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Moonriver, I am not cowering in my home. I am however doing my part to make sure that this virus is handled so that I am not putting others at risk by using medical supplies and personal that can save lives. Itis not only those infected with covid that we are saving but those that are in accidents, have heart attacks or even a life threatening allergy attack and need the services of a hospital.


How is the plan working in WA, CA, and NY? How are people in accidents or having heart attacks doing? The plan is a failure. 

Not that hard to be brave in a state that has a total of 28 cases. Post again when there are 1000 cases in Wyoming.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

HDRider said:


> Sad you have lost all faith in the free market, and want to only rely on a giant bureaucracy.


I'm the one championing the free market and rejecting the bureaucracy.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MoonRiver said:


> I'm the one championing the free market and rejecting the bureaucracy.


Then take what comes

Or do some entrepreneuring yourself

Rich market opportunity, Timing is everything


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> No reason it has to be FDA approved.


It has to be approved to be used in treating patients.
It's not needed for the general public


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MoonRiver said:


> How is the plan working in WA, CA, and NY? How are people in accidents or having heart attacks doing? The plan is a failure.
> 
> Not that hard to be brave in a state that has a total of 28 cases. Post again when there are 1000 cases in Wyoming.


So do you think your posts berating others is making a difference?


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i'm certainly not cowering although i'm on lock down again. i spend every day i can in my garden which is what i do summer time anyway. ~Georgia


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> Not that hard to be brave in a state that has a total of 28 cases.


Good point.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Moonriver, did you consider that Wyoming only has a few cases because we started shutting things down before we even had 1 confirmed case?


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Farmerga said:


> You gonna trust Bubba McGee down the road to make his own mask, then go out among the public?


Or, just buy from Bubba


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I suspect this is really why:


> *Wyoming is the least populated state in the country.* It is home to only *579,315 people*. Due to its large land area, Wyoming ranks as the second least densely populated state in the country. A *lack of population centers* and a relatively *harsh climate* are some of the reasons why Wyoming has not attracted a large population.


We have cities with more people.


> Charlotte, North Carolina. The population in Charlotte is 826,060


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

Naw, he just likes to blame things on others. When he has the medical, engineering and public health education or experience, maybe he can come up with something helpful. Til then social distance.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

painterswife said:


> So do you think your posts berating others is making a difference?


At least as much as yours.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I suspect this is really why:
> 
> 
> We have cities with more people.


I thought everyone understood population density was a major factor.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

anniew said:


> Naw, he just likes to blame things on others. When he has the medical, engineering and public health education or experience, maybe he can come up with something helpful. Til then social distance.


What's your problem? The only people I am blaming are those in government who have given us a plan that isn't working, while at the same time destroying the economy. They should have started reacting in January, but didn't. They should have realized we were at the mercy of China for medical supplies in January or even much earlier, and they didn't. States should have been getting supplies and equipment before they were almost out, and they didn't. They should have involved the private sector in February, and they didn't. How is it Elon Musk was able to buy ventilators in China last Friday, yet NY and CA are saying they can't find ventilators anywhere?

What we are experiencing is what bureaucracies do. They make excuses, they lie to cover their butts, and they under perform. This is war and they need to act like it. Stop the bureaucratic BS and get the job done or get out of the way and let someone else step up and do it.

There is absolutely no excuse for what is happening in NYC. They saw it happen in Italy, in France, in Washington state, etc. and they let it happen to them. Why?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yes, the government was behind in reacting. That is a conversation that should take place in the dark rooms.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Yes, the government was behind in reacting. That is a conversation that should take place in the dark rooms.


I'm not making it political, are you?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Another small lab doing what needs to be done.


> He added, “We can use the assay to screen for people who seroconverted and are now immune... It is likely (but needs to be confirmed) that once the antibody response sets in, we become protected.” dbeast


What this means is they can identify who can safely return to work. Critical when it comes to medical staff who may need to perform without adequate PPE.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MoonRiver said:


> I'm not making it political, are you?


I don't believe I am but it seems to me that railing about the government is supposed to be discussed in the dark rooms. Of course, I may be wrong but it sure seems that way.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

painterswife said:


> I don't believe I am but it seems to me that railing about the government is supposed to be discussed in the dark rooms. Of course, I may be wrong but it sure seems that way.


Yes, you are wrong. If we can't talk about government then most of the coronavirus threads would have to be moved there. I have very carefully stayed away from blaming any political person or party in this thread.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Not working, look at the countries with a much higher death rate than The US


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Lets ask the mods.
@WR,@Shrek.

Are we allowed to rail at the government as long as we don't mention one person or party in this forum?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> I thought *everyone* understood population density was a major factor.


It seems not.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Population density means nothing without contact. That is the point of social distancing.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> *Population density means nothing* without contact. That is the point of social distancing.


Let's do some simple logic. The less the population density the less likely you are to be in close contact. That makes it easier in Wyoming to avoid contact than in NYC.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Patterns never change, do they?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> How is it Elon Musk was able to buy ventilators in China last Friday, yet NY and CA are saying they can't find ventilators anywhere?


We don't really know he did.
We just know that's what has been reported.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> There is absolutely no excuse for what is happening in NYC. They saw it happen in Italy, in France, in Washington state, etc. and they let it happen to them. Why?


Take a deep breath and ISOLATE. (Really)


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Let's do some simple logic. The less the population density the less likely you are to be in close contact. That makes it easier in Wyoming to avoid contact than in NYC.


Just because wide swaths of this state is not inhabitated does not mean that the areas that have the majority of the state's population are not in close contact. We have towns and cities, restaurants and schools. Bars and tourist destinations. Airports and Walmarts. It is not all cowboys in remote locations. We can get away from people in our recreational time easily but work is not the same.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Just because wide swaths of this state is not inhabitated does not mean that the areas that have the majority of the state's population are not in close contact. We have towns and cities, restaurants and schools. Bars and tourist destinations. Airports and Walmarts. It is not all cowboys in remote locations. We can get away from people in our recreational time easily but work is not the same.


You have towns! Who knew?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> That makes it easier in Wyoming to avoid contact than in NYC.


It also means there's less chance of anyone bringing it there.
Hardly anyone goes there under normal conditions, and half of those go to hunt.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It also means there's less chance of anyone bringing it there.
> Hardly anyone goes there under normal conditions, and half of those go to hunt.


How is that? We have tourists, airports and visitors. We have interstates with people driving through using gas stations, hotels and restaurants. Jackson Hole has direct flights from 13 different US cities during ski season and the summer tourist season. They closed the hills early so those people would not fly in and spread Covid. The east side of the state has a US Air Force base and people constantly traveling through from Colorado and their airport.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

po boy said:


> Not working, look at the countries with a much higher death rate than The US


Try comparing to NY and see how NY is doing.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> You have towns! Who knew?


The biggest is around 65,000 people.
It's smaller than one of our small college towns by about 30,000.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> Try comparing to NY and see how NY is doing.


NY is on the chart as part of the US.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

MoonRiver said:


> I listen to the daily COVID-19 briefings go over the same things day after day. This is one of the most incompetent undertakings ever attempted. It is old strategy by old men. It requires Americans to hide out in their homes. It destroys the economy. It may or may not save lives.
> 
> There has to be other plans that are equal or better. Actually, it would be hard to come up with a plan that is any worse. They keep turning to big business to solve problems instead of to small, innovative companies. They don't seem to be using expertise from our great universities. Heck, with all the money the federal government gives to universities, start tasking them.
> 
> ...


Don't worry. Top man said in a speach on TV yesterday that in a couple weeks plans are being made to put everyone back to work. The main part of this sickness is under control. People can go back to work very soon. A cure is working and will be used very soon. That is what our bright leader said yesterday on TV. I believe every word he says. Note the top medical man in charge of things was not at the meeting yesterday. He does not agree with DT......So he is out of the loop working on something else. He has a big problem he is to old to know anything about this issue.  

For now stay home and stay away from people. No cure has been approved by the government yet. Don't believe any report that says anyone has found a cure for this. Nothing has been proven to work yet.


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## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

No need for a cure when 80% never get sick or have a symptom. Of course some never let a crisis go to waste either. If collapsing a great economy was the main goal - mission accomplished!


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

What I would Do.

I just cut the front lawn and had some ideas as I was pushing the mower. I need some authority, so I will pretend I am the mayor of the city I live in, a population of about 40,000 people.

1) Create a task force and do brain storming

Healthcare
At risk population
Critical businesses
Resources
Police
Web site that has all the information needed by city residents during the crisis
Appoint State, Regional, and National coordinator

Other
2) Appoint healthcare liaison

Resources such as critical care beds, ventilators, staff, supplies
Identify shortfalls
Identify problem areas
Define capacities
Make sure hospital has easy to understand instructions on the home page.
Other
3) Appoint Senior/At Risk Coordinator

How do we identify all the at risk people?
How can we protect them?
What services will they need?
4) Appoint Business Liaison People

Identify nationally critical companies
Identify locally critical companies
Plan for keeping critical businesses open and staffed
Identify and get buy in from companies that might be able to provide manufacturing/assembly/fabrication services
Identify strengths and weaknesses
5. Identify community resources

Can any of the old mills be put back into production for face masks or other PPE?
Do we have industrial sewing machines?
Do we have skilled operators?
Do we have people who could sew face masks?
Do any of our companies make filters or respiratory products?
Other
6. Police and emergency Services

If we have a shelter in place order, how will it be enforced?
How will we provide PPE for police and emergency workers?
How will emergency ambulance service be provided during the epidemic?
7) Outside the Box Group

Come up with creative solutions
Use Internet to search for creative solutions
Work with local businesses to implement and test as appropriate
Figure out ways to keep businesses open, while protecting the workers.
Then I would beat the heck out of the list until every valid question we came up with, had an answer. Every problem had a solution. We always had a fallback position, even if not optimal. 

My job would be protect the at risk population, provide resources to minimize risk to rest of population, keep critical businesses open and staff safe, keep hospital operating, staff protected, and enough resources to get through crisis, to keep as many businesses open as possible, and returning people to labor force as quickly as possible as soon as either tests show it is safe for them to return to work or we have sufficient masks to protect them.

By focusing on at risk population, all these things could be accomplished.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> all these things could be accomplished.


They are already doing all those things and more.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They are already doing all those things and more.


A thousand bucks says my city isn't. And I bet your county isn't either.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> A thousand bucks says my city isn't. And I bet your county isn't either.





MoonRiver said:


> 1) Create a task force and do brain storming
> 
> Healthcare
> At risk population
> ...


We have all those things.



MoonRiver said:


> 6. Police and emergency Services
> 
> If we have a shelter in place order, how will it be enforced?
> How will we provide PPE for police and emergency workers?
> How will emergency ambulance service be provided during the epidemic?


They have planned for those things.
The facilities here have what they need so far and more supplies are coming in.
We have had emergencies before.
People are trained to handle them.



MoonRiver said:


> 7) Outside the Box Group
> 
> Come up with *creative solutions*
> Use Internet to search for creative solutions
> ...


All those are being done.



MoonRiver said:


> Then I would beat the heck out of the list until *every valid question we came up with, had an answer*. Every problem had a solution. We always had a fallback position, even if not optimal.


That's not realistic since conditions can change rapidly.

You'd also have to *accept* the answers, like when they tell the general public they *don't* need to wear masks. Simply *staying at home* helps more than anything. 

You mostly seem to just keep asking the same questions and ignoring what's really happening.

You should be close enough to the border to get UNC TV.
They have daily briefings. There's one on right now.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

All the plans focus on trying to keep people from getting the virus by social distancing. I just can't see that working in most cases. It goes against human nature. Is *trying* to stay 6 ft apart any better than going with a make shift mask? I doubt it. When I went to grocery store, I was about 2 foot from cashier, and there wasn't much I could do about it. A mask might have helped.

The real problem is someone bringing the virus into the area. There are no cases in the city and surrounding counties. There will not be any cases, until someone from outside the area brings it in. How can we stop the virus from coming in? Short of setting up road blocks and taking everyone's temperature, not much. Someone with the virus is going to come into our community, have contact with 5, 10, 20 people before they have symptoms, if they even do, and if tested not know for a couple of days if they have the virus. By then, there could be 10, 20, 50 more people exposed. Is social distancing really going to stop the spread?

It never seems to stop initial spread. It is only when there are a very high number of cases, does social distancing seem to make any difference in a cluster. We have to be able to identify a carrier much faster. That should be a very high priority.

We need to identify those who have immunity. They can act as a buffer. They can be the cashiers in a grocery store, the person who handles food in the restaurant, the doctors and nurses serving in the front line, etc. Getting this test approved and available should also be a very high priority.

Everyone should wear a mask when in public, unless they have been tested and shown to have immunity. Making masks that are effective, comfortable, and cheap should also be a very high priority.

Early, fast test for the virus
Test for immunity
Cheap, comfortable effective masks for general population.
Keep at risk people in isolation
Let the economy roar.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The plan is to slow the rate of transmission so that the medical community can save as many lives as possible. That is why they are using social distancing.

We don't have enough tests, PPE's or even hospital beds at this point of time to do otherwise. Social distancing is what we have until we have more of the medical things we need.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> I just can't see that working in most cases.


It doesn't matter if you "can't see it". It's proven science.



MoonRiver said:


> Is *trying* to stay 6 ft apart any better than going with a make shift mask?


Actually staying at home keeps you away from people.
Your jury rigged "mask" creates more problems than it solves.



MoonRiver said:


> *Everyone should wear a mask* when in public, unless they have been tested and shown to have immunity.


You keep repeating that even after seeing multiple sources saying it's a bad idea.




MoonRiver said:


> *Early, fast test for the virus*
> 
> Test for immunity
> 
> ...


There's one new test that gets results in 4 hours.
There's another that cuts the time to 45 minutes.
You aren't keeping up with what is really happening because you're spending all your time thinking about masks that won't help.

In NC, *95% of those tested came back negative*.

https://www.ncdhhs.gov/covid-19-case-count-nc




MoonRiver said:


> When I went to grocery store, I was about 2 foot from cashier, and there wasn't much I could do about it. *A mask might have helped*.


Staying home would have helped.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> How can we stop the virus from coming in?


By staying at home.



MoonRiver said:


> Someone with the virus is going to come into our community, have contact with 5, 10, 20 people before they have symptoms, if they even do, and if tested not know for a couple of days if they have the virus. By then, there could be 10, 20, 50 more people exposed. *Is social distancing really going to stop the spread?*


It's the one thing proven to work, but one really has to *do* it.

*NC Cases* 398*
*NC Deaths 0*
*NC Completed Tests** 8,502*
* This number reflects positive results from all tests, including the NC State Laboratory of Public Health and all hospital and commercial labs.

** This number reflects testing completed by the NC State Laboratory of Public Health and reporting hospital and commercial laboratories.

4.6812514702% of tests are positive, so *95% of those tested do not have the virus*.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

New test, results in 4 hours:
blob:https://www.today.com/c2078248-a566-41ac-b344-db97a7dcb146


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## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

MoonRiver said:


> There is absolutely no excuse for what is happening in NYC. They saw it happen in Italy, in France, in Washington state, etc. and they let it happen to them. Why?


The excuse is the idiots who cant seem to understand what social distancing means and continue to congregate
and continue to spreading the virus. Then whine when it spreads the government isnt doing enough to protect them. I think those who purposely expose themselves (like spring breakers)should receive no help not even a ventilator if needed. Act stupid die stupid!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> New test, results in 4 hours:
> blob:https://www.today.com/c2078248-a566-41ac-b344-db97a7dcb146


404 file not found


https://www.today.com/video/new-cor...takes-only-4-hours-to-see-results-80961605870

Is the correct link to the video


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I just was watching the news and a high muckety muck in Italy was talking about the thousands of graduates who will want to party.

He was pretty steamed and said something to the effect of, “We will send police! With *flamethrowers*!”
Now where was he when those knuckleheads in the US were partying in Florida last week?


ETA:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-mayors-lockdown-covid-19-video-a9422166.html


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

GTX63 said:


> That sounds reasonable and I'll go for a walk with that.
> Can I also give or sell you one that I designed and manufactured and you won't sue me if there is a problem?
> Can I get a promise from everyone and their loved ones?


His mask is somewhere between the perfect mask and no mask. It would be your decision f you chose to wear it or not.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> I just was watching the news and a high muckety muck in Italy was talking about the thousands of graduates who will want to party.
> 
> He was pretty steamed and said something to the effect of, “We will send police! With *flamethrowers*!”
> Now where was he when those knuckleheads in the US were partying in Florida last week?
> ...


I know what I would have done if you shot a flame thrower at me when I was 20


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I know what I would have done if you shot a flame thrower at me when I was 20


What?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> What?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


>


Is that a joint, man? That, there looks like a quarter pounder.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> 404 file not found
> 
> 
> https://www.today.com/video/new-cor...takes-only-4-hours-to-see-results-80961605870
> ...


Thanks!


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

MoonRiver said:


> His mask is somewhere between the perfect mask and no mask. It would be your decision f you chose to wear it or not.


I agree with you. That isn't how a litigious society works, however. A society in which members will drink fish tank cleaner because they believe it cures the Wuhan virus.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Very best DIY n95 type mask I have found. The parts I found were more expensive than the video quotes, but those were inhouse hospital prices. I bought enough parts to make 6 masks with a spare filter for each mask for about $45 including shipping or $9 each. In the video, they were able to make a mask for under $3.00 each.

Link to web site for hospital follows video.






https://www.childrenshospital.org/r...tments/surgery/surgical-innovation-fellowship


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

This is exactly what I am talking about. People stepping up when government can't.

https://covidhacks.org/


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> People stepping up* when government can't*.


You keep saying that while all along the govt is providing what is needed as rapidly as possible.
Don't keep confusing the hype with the reality.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Just saw this morning that someone has developed the plan for creating ventilators on 3d printer. He can print one every 12 hours. He is trying to recruit 1000 people with 3d printers to start printing respirators. He says they should be able to make about 14,000 a week. These ventilators can support 2 or 3 patients each, so it's more like making 30-40,000 a week.

More and more small manufacturers are stepping up and making masks or other ppe.

Many small labs are developing tests and treatments.

The exact point I made in OP. It is the individual American and small businesses that will lead us out of this. Innovation!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MoonRiver said:


> It is the individual American and small businesses that will lead us out of this. Innovation!


Isn't that how America is supposed to work?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

HDRider said:


> Isn't that how America is supposed to work?


Then why does government always turn to big business when there is a crisis?


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> Then why does government always turn to big business when there is a crisis?


Production Volume


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

I saw that feature about the 3D printers. the weekly output was only 500 . maybe with enough printers you could get up to your numbers..
some people say that social distancing doesn't work, and then in the same breath say that outsiders should not be allowed into their cities.. That is what social distancing is, figure it out ..
I had someone say to me that social distancing doesn't seem to be working. just look at how the numbers are climbing.. I told her that those numbers are from dumb @55es not doing social distancing..
If UPS delivers a package here, it doesn't come into my house for 48 hours.. I hope that is long enough..


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MoonRiver said:


> Then why does government always turn to big business when there is a crisis?


That is who pays them.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

po boy said:


> Production Volume


I agree with that, but I still say big corporate has bought and paid our elected machine in DC


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I saw that feature about the 3D printers. the weekly output was only 500 . maybe with enough printers you could get up to your numbers..
> some people say that social distancing doesn't work, and then in the same breath say that outsiders should not be allowed into their cities.. That is what social distancing is, figure it out ..
> I had someone say to me that social distancing doesn't seem to be working. just look at how the numbers are climbing.. I told her that those numbers are from dumb @55es not doing social distancing..
> If UPS delivers a package here, it doesn't come into my house for 48 hours.. I hope that is long enough..


Social distancing is almost impossible to implement. Let's say you have to pick up a prescription at the drug store, and they don't offer delivery or window pickup. How can you get your prescription from the pharmacy employee without getting within 6 feet?

Same with groceries if you have to shop yourself. How do you pay the cashier without getting within 6 feet?

For the 3d printers, he was trying to line up 1000 printers.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Social distancing is not impossible. It is work. 

You can order by phone, you can have curbside delivery. You can do it if you really want to.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Social distancing is not impossible. It is work.
> 
> You can order by phone, you can have curbside delivery. You can do it if you really want to.


The nearest grocery store (large chain) does not offer delivery or pickup in this area. Walmart only says nothing available for grocery pickup/delivery in next 2 days, but doesn't have an option to schedule out any farther. Walmart only has prescription pickup at counter.

How would you know what someone can or can't do? Plus I never said social distancing was impossible. When a company only offers checkout from a cashier and you have to be within 6 feet of the cashier to make the purchase, and the purchase is necessary, you tell me how to maintain social distancing.

I wore gloves this time, but if I have to go again I will be wearing a mask. The people in the store who are most likely to come in contact with someone with the virus are probably the cashiers, and none of them were wearing masks.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MoonRiver said:


> I pointed out in my post why it might not be.
> The nearest grocery store (large chain) does not offer delivery or pickup in this area. Walmart only says nothing available for grocery pickup/delivery in next 2 days, but doesn't have an option to schedule out any farther. Walmart only has prescription pickup at counter.
> 
> How would you know what someone can or can't do? Plus I never said social distancing was impossible. When a company only offers checkout from a cashier and you have to be within 6 feet of the cashier to make the purchase, and the purchase is necessary, you tell me how to maintain social distancing.
> ...


I don't believe that you could not call ahead and request it they won't find a workaround. I also don't believe you can't find a workaround if you need to. It is being done everyday in my community. Even at the local paint store.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

MoonRiver, you are offensive in your opening statement. You talk of "Old Men" as if they in totum, are bad, stupid, and evil. 
What if i were to say "all short, fat, and self adsorbed women" should be ignored? Obviously that is offensive as is your bias.

Get a grip. We are in this together.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

They are mostly old men. What is offensive about calling old men, old men? Where are the young hotshot medical people that might have some innovative ideas? Or someone like an Elon Musk or Peter Thiele?

The beauty in having a committee like this should be the push and pull of different ideas and different approaches. At different ages, people have different perspectives and this committee doesn't seem to be taking advantage of that.

Trump - 73
Pence - 70
Fauci - 79
Redfield - 68
Birx - 64


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> Then why does government always turn to big business when there is a crisis?


They turn to everyone.
Big businesses have the capacity to produce what is needed more rapidly, and they have the infrastructure in place for distribution.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> The beauty in having a committee like this should be the push and pull of different ideas and different approaches.


With pushing and pulling, no one gets anywhere.
You only get chaos.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> Social distancing is almost impossible to implement. Let's say you have to pick up a prescription at the drug store, and they don't offer delivery or window pickup. How can you get your prescription from the pharmacy employee without getting within 6 feet?
> 
> Same with groceries if you have to shop yourself. How do you pay the cashier without getting within 6 feet?


You do the best you can.
One prescription should hold you for a month.
You can buy enough groceries to last for weeks at a time.
You can *actually* *stay at home* instead of going out at least once a week.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You do the best you can.
> One prescription should hold you for a month.
> You can buy enough groceries to last for weeks at a time.
> You can *actually* *stay at home* instead of going out at least once a week.


we switched scrips to mail order and signed up with Shipt. Between that and instacart we can get everything we need delivered.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> we switched scrips to mail order and signed up with Shipt. Between that and instacart we can get everything we need delivered.


Many prescriptions can be done every 90 days now too.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Many prescriptions can be done every 90 days now too.


That’s what we are doing. 
now trying to get our dogs prescriptions at Costco switched to mail order.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

it seems to me that someone who wants to find fault with the six foot rule is trying very hard to make excuses why it won't work. 
actually I feel sorry for them who live in such a part of the country where they cannot maintain the six foot rule.
wearing a mask doesn't protect the wearer, it is to protect the people they come in contact with..
bottom line, if you don't agree with social distancing, don't do it. 
otherwise find a way to work with it..


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Did you read about the woman who went around coughing on the fresh veggies/fruits, the meat cases, etc declaring she had Corona? Seems she's a known problem in the area. Got her behind arrested. The store had to toss out many thousands of dollars of food because of it.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

It depends on your state, the classification of drug, insurance, and/or physician's office if a medication can be filled for 90 days and/or be mail order. 

It's not a given.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> It depends on your state, the classification of drug, insurance, and/or physician's office if a medication can be filled for 90 days and/or be mail order.
> 
> It's not a given.


It also depends on your insurance as well. My neighbor is at the pharmacy at least once a week. I have no clue what for.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> I was going to respond, but it would be pointless. All you did was repeat what the government is doing.


 All you are doing is repeating what the media says is not being done.



MoonRiver said:


> They are mostly old men. What is offensive about calling old men, old men? Where are the young hotshot medical people that might have some innovative ideas? Or someone like an Elon Musk or Peter Thiele?
> 
> The beauty in having a committee like this should be the push and pull of different ideas and different approaches. At different ages, people have different perspectives and this committee doesn't seem to be taking advantage of that.
> 
> ...



Because for many, wisdom comes with age...…….what I though was brilliance at 30 and 40, I now realize was naive ignorance.....


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

While I don't think things always work out how it should be, I think we're moving at a pace that's about normal for not being that proactive.

I just got indoors from pruning fruit trees and will probably go hang out with the chickens or take the dog for a walk-- one of the nicer things about the stay-at-home order is having less traffic to interfere with road exercise. Nature is still very much around, as are books, cooking, writing, housework (yuck) and all other things people used to do before modern technology. At least there's internet.

I think I'll dig out that calligraphy kit I've been sitting on for years...


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I walk either outside with our 6 lb guard dog or on the treadmill every day. I've cleaned closets, organized cupboards, went through the pantry, the entire house is spotless- including the inside of windows. I'm bored. So bored I've considered painting rooms, and I don't like to paint. I'm at the planning stage, because painting should be done with an open window and it's just not warm enough yet...


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

That was the only cleanup you'll be getting and you'll lose another thread.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> wearing a mask doesn't protect the wearer, it is to protect the people they come in contact with..
> bottom line, if you don't agree with social distancing, don't do it.
> otherwise find a way to work with it..


You are 100% wrong about masks. Yes, a surgical mask provides protection by catching most of the virus in the mask if you cough or sneeze, but have you noticed doctors wear surgical masks? It provides protection against becoming infected as well. It is not a sealed mask, so it is possible for the virus to get in by coming in around the edge. Studies show that doctors wearing surgical masks have a much lower incidence of being infected by a virus than doctors who don't wear a mask.

The N95 mask, a sealed mask, is worn to protect the user. When properly sealed, the mask is 95% effective at blocking the virus. If everyone wore a surgical mask, that would provide adequate protection, when combined with social distancing, washing hands, etc. But if everyone doesn't wear a mask, then an N95 mask provides much better protection.

Many Asian countries require that people wear masks. It is an important part of their plan for controlling the spread of the virus. Even in Asian countries where it is not required, the people still wear them. One reason for this is they were effected by SARS, MIRS, and bird flu. They learned that masks were a major factor in controlling the spread.

Just in the last few days, the Czech Republic has required all people to wear a mask. WHO actually has a recommendation for Asian countries to use masks.

All this information about masks can be found on the CDC and FDA web sites.

See the video I just posted under *Leading COVID-19 Expert From South Korea*


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Terri said:


> Trump just announced that we have a very effective treatment now. Unless Trump is exaggerating, this treatment has saved the lives of patients who were literally at death's door.
> 
> The meds will arrive in NY tomorrow morning for big trials, and the manufacturer are right now gearing up to produce mass quantities. Apparently the cure is a combination of anti-malarial meds plus antibiotics. This makes perfect sense: the virus does damage lung tissue, and then bacteria might be taking advantage of the weakened tissue to attack the body.
> 
> ...


Where did you hear that?


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> Cower in your house then.
> 
> Others are inventing cheap ventilators from over the counter parts, masks that work, etc. This is the time for entrepreneurs and inventors to shine, while others hide inside heir houses waiting for the government to tell them it is safe to come out and live again.


Right now quarantine and closings are our ONLY way to minimize the spread until a vaccine is available.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> Johnny Lee just came out with this plan for a Low-Cost Powered Air-Purifying Respirator (PAPR). Put on a pair of gloves and you are near virus proof.


Plans don't walk the dog


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> I was going to respond, but it would be pointless. All you did was repeat what the government is doing.


What would YOU do?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> *You are 100% wrong* about masks.





MoonRiver said:


> All this information about masks can be found on the CDC and FDA web sites.


They all say masks *don't* help the general public, and you keep saying they do.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Terri said: ↑
> Trump just announced that we have a very effective treatment now. *Unless Trump is exaggerating*, this treatment has saved the lives of patients who were literally at death's door.


Trump *always* exaggerates.
They are doing trials and there have been *some* good results in some cases.
More studies are needed to determine the proper dosage, and to decide if the treatments are safe since there are lots of side effects to the drugs.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

There is no cure for covid-19 and no comprehensive treatment for the virus. Only the symptoms can be treated. This includes trying to reduce inflammation and protect the lungs and use the anti-viral and pneumonia drugs we have. Whether they help seems to be on a case by case basis. 

It will be a year or more before a vaccine or effective treatment will be available. If then.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> It will be *a year or more* before a vaccine or effective treatment will be available. If then.


If a *reliable* treatment is found, it will come sooner.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

or not.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

emdeengee said:


> or not.


maybe


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I've been fair and cleaned this one up once. There are no further chances and we are no longer interested in multiple cleanups.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Mods, thank you for your hard work in trying to keep these threads civilized.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> or not.


Tests have already been fast tracked.
If the drugs are already approved for use in humans there's no need for lengthy trials.
But I get that you won't ever admit Trump might actually get something done.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

it is difficult to post anything without upsetting someone.
you can't please all of the people all of the time....
in order to make a statement, I guess it has to be written as if I was a lawyer. I am not. 
to qualify my statement, I should have said ,
those cotton run of the mill masks are useless for protecting against much except visible dust.
People who suffer from asthma do not take a certain over the counter remedy. It could kill them.
this substance has been found in some of the virus killed people. It has been recommended that substance should be avoided.. advil .


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The article in another post had a statement from a doctor that steroids should not be used in C19 patients, that it harmed instead of helping heal the lungs.

Daughter is taking steroids for her bronchitis now.


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