# My family is a threat



## Gottabenutz (May 11, 2010)

I was looking to join a group of local prep minded people to share in knowledge and bullk buying. I was told, that as a single mother with two teens at home, we were detrimental to the group; actually the words used was OPSEC! I was just wondering; if you were in a group of prepper-minded people would you exclude someonne based on any criteria? 
We're not talking about a group who plans to bug out together. We're talking a group who gets together to talk about survival stuff and buy things in bulk. Needless to say I was suprised as I thought most survival minnded folks would want to teach others how to be prepared. Am I wrong? Or did I just stumble upon the wrong group? :bored:


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

Sounds like you stumbled on the wrong group. I can't imagine how being a single mom with teenagers causes you to be a detriment to the group.


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hi,
I would stay away from a group acting like that probably think your to honest to listen to them be. You make them nervous witch probably means you would be an excelent choise for an honest group.
When the Feds or the county stops by to talk to you about them you'll know you didn't want anything to do with them.
Dutch


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

ummm, I can if the group is solely composed of COUPLES(with or without children)...

I moved here as a single woman who had a contractor build her home. Frankly, I got the cold shoulder from the local WIVES until they saw that I was not going to pull "the helpless woman alone" ploy to try for help from THEIR men.

Apparently the 2 getting stronger more able young men in tow is not enough to offset the fact you don't have a grown man "of your own". Remember, they don't know just what you are capable of(and some of the women don't want to find out!!). JMO


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

When people start using terms like OPSEC in conversation, they are either engaging in some serious delusions, or they are a group that will soon be on the news. Either way, I'd steer clear and find a group with an adult in charge.


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## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

yeah what does opsec mean, also what parts of the counrty are you? not specific but where abouts?


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## Pam6 (Apr 9, 2009)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> what does that even mean?


I think it means Operational Security. 

It sounds like a group you want to steer clear of!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I had to look also. Here's what I found.

http://www.hqusareur.army.mil/vigilance/1st_Info_Ops_Command_OPSECGuidelines.pdf



> What Is OPSEC?
> Operations Security, or OPSEC, is keeping
> potential adversaries from discovering our
> critical information. As the name suggests, it
> ...


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## remmettn (Dec 26, 2005)

Natural groupings are best
(Family, area neighbors, church )
Planning with people you donât know or share ideas with why?

in bad times you become the "other /outsider"

good planning in levels.
1.	talk to family plan for what if. also buget with a meal plan have extra food.
2.	plan with neighbors and church.
3.	go camping with the kids in the same place you would bug out (if).

:bouncy:


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

EEEEKKK sounds like they did you a favor by not wanting you!!!!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I don't want to sound too much like a jerk, but I guess I should be true to form.

You're a single mother with two teenage boys. When you showed up to introduce yourself to this group, how were those kids dressed? Like hoodlums, which is to say "fashionable", or did they show up in work clothes and look like productive young men? Or did they sit there the whole time playing handheld video games and texting their buddies?

How were YOU composed? Is your only source of income some entitlement program from the government? Do you WORK for the government? Did you know ANY of these people before you approached them? 

I'm not implying that any of these things reflect your situation, but I'm very aware that we're only hearing YOUR side of the story. There are many, many reasons why a group might turn someone away. Many of those reasons are also going to be valid. 

There are many shysters involved in the survivalist/patriot movement. We have learned this to our detriment and we don't trust easy. If someone doesn't look like they're going to be an asset, we're going to turn them away. We have to. Aside from the fact that some people are simply a burden on an affluent society NOW and more likely to be a burden later, the government is ACTIVELY SEEKING to lure us into comprising positions and entrap us. People have been turned in to the Department of Homeland Security for posting on this very forum. 

You'd better believe we're wary of who we interface with and what we say. I applaud your efforts to find a group. I've come to the same conclusion you have within the past year and that is the conclusion that a lone wolf won't survive what's coming down the pipe. I'm posting this so that you know the mindset of the groups you're trying to interface with and will be able to better adjust for your next attempt.

EDIT: I realize I made the assumption that your teenagers are both boys. They may not be. But teenage girls would be even more suspect.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

I think that if a group has that type of mentality, its probably not a group you'll want to be involved in. Like you said, you have no intention of bugging out with these people anyway. Sounds like you are looking for a group of decent people who would have concern for a single mom and want her to have knowledge that might help her in an emergency.

That group sounds like some kind of weird survivalists that think they will rise from the ashes and thrive 'mad max' style.


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

Ernie said:


> I........... People have been turned in to the Department of Homeland Security for posting on this very forum.


Holey Moley! Truly? Just for posting here?

I don't want to sound paranoid, but I think I will be taking an extended (read permanent) vacation from the entire Homesteading Today board.


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## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

you've already been here they know who you are!!!


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## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

you have vey good points Ernie as always


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

coalroadcabin said:


> Holey Moley! Truly? Just for posting here?
> 
> I don't want to sound paranoid, but I think I will be taking an extended (read permanent) vacation from the entire Homesteading Today board.


There may have been some folks trying to cause trouble for others here.
And, yes, homeland security does read HT. Or at least one or more that works there.

There are twice as many guest readers as people signed on at almost any time day or night. 

Take a look at the bottom of a thread from time to time to see how many guests - some are just advertising bots, some are bots looking to answer search queries, and some are people that work at interesting places, and some are working at interesting places doing work.

Angie


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## TacticalTrout (Jan 7, 2010)

AngieM2 said:


> ...and some are people that work at interesting places, and some are working at interesting places doing work.
> Angie


This is an instant classic statement!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Don't stop posting because you're being watched. Just be careful not to cross specific lines.

We are not yet at the point where simple anti-government talk and discussions of prepping are going to get you arrested. The day they do, however, it's time to fight. 

As for being on a list, well, I'd be ashamed NOT to be on a list. All my friends already are.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I can understand how a group would consider 2 tnage boys security risks. Especially without a father. Maybe they took their preparations seriously and they decided you with 2 teenage boys wouldn't fit in. Can't blame the group. They are doing what they think they should. Maybe just talking about things and buying things were not the top priority of the group and they would rather not put the group in danger.


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## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

It could be as simple as they don't know you that well. Rather then being direct, the person informing you chose what they felt was the easiest excuse.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

:runforhills:


I "knew" we would attract gov types but to have it confirmed....*ACK*


For the record..I have no supplies stocked, own no livestock and don't even know what a PM is!! And ifin yer lookin fer weapons y'all kin have my baseball bat:gaptooth:

Glad to know I'm in good company here!! Folks keep tellin me if I keep on acting the way I do I'm gonna "make their list". Now I can tell them they are too late; I already made "the LIST"!!!


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

As others have mentioned, I think you stumbled onto the wrong group for you. I agree that it is a bit over the top to be talking to strangers about things like opsec risks. BTW, letting strangers know that you have even considered "opsec" is a breach thereof! Secondly, if you, as a single woman, don't fit into the dynamic of the group, again - it's the wrong one for you. Unless I was truly desperate, I would never try to force myself into such a group. And finally, perhaps this group is a bit more of the "bug out together" variety than you suspect. If they are talking opsec and have a solid idea of who fits the membership criteria, then they are not just a nebulous group of interested folks who want to chat about survival topics.

Another thought just popped into my head. Don't take this personally, since I don't even know you. But could calling you an opsec risk have been another way of saying that they thought you would have been a liability instead of a benefit? Again, not the typical response from just a "learning circle" type of group where people just come to sit and learn or discuss. But for whatever reason, they might have thought of you as someone who didn't have any skills to offer or possibly (as others mentioned) as someone who might disrupt the balance of the group.

Whatever the case, I wouldn't particularly seek to join this group any time soon. Either they are set and don't welcome/need anyone else, or they are judgemental and not open to finding out if you have anything to offer. 

I would be much more likely to join a homesteading group rather than a survival or preparedness one. No sense in advertising that you prep. You don't know who else would be in such a group and whether they would consider your preps as their Plan B, after they ran through their own. IMO, homestead groups tend to focus more on the work and the how-to, which can be equally helpful but does not imply that you have a vast supply of prep materials stocked up.

However, if I did join a survival/prep group, and it was more of the educational sort, then I would be open to anyone with interest also joining. Each on our own journey type of attitude.

If it was a circle of associates who planned to lean on each other to get through future difficulties, then yes, I would encourage being very selective about who would be invited to join. I would expect prospective members to have certain basic supplies in place and be able to support their own family's need for food and protection prior to joining. Or at a minimum that they would have the financial ability to quickly come up to speed in that area. I would also place a premium on recruiting people with certain skill sets - medical, defense and security, food production, animal husbandry, construction, etc. (No offense, but an info technology guy would have to be very good at something else before I would want him in.) 

I would block the admission of anyone who openly displayed an abrasive or disruptive attitude. No on anyone who was a blabbermouth, who was not completely trustworthy, who was divisive, or who couldn't follow orders and the chain of command. No whiners or complainers. And a big NO on anyone who was lazy!!! I would be very careful with unmarried people who could potentially present a problem in terms of relationships, but I also think those types of things would come up eventually due to young children becoming teens or existing marriages becoming troubled.

There are also lots of issues to be considered such as what kind of big ticket resources potential members owned, such as land, livestock, vehicles, and other equipment.

So basically, in answer to your original question regarding whether I would exclude someone, the answer is no, if we are all there to learn and yes, if we were selecting people upon whom to depend.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

to the OP..How did your "vacation" go?? If you posted where you ended up going I must have missed it..????


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## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

ovsfarm said:


> First off, I would be much more likely to join a homesteading group rather than a survival or preparedness one.


Very good point. I would rather be surrounded by people who live their lives with some degree of self reliance, rather then people who fancy themselves as ultra weekend commando's which is how a lot of the groups I've read of come across.

So have your kids join the local 4H or FFA. Or volunteer with the local county fair. Whatever it takes to get you access to as many "homesteading" types of people as you can


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

anyone throwing that word around is a risk of an unknown sort, already.

second, everyone should encourage everyone to read these boards.
that puts EVERYONE on the LIST.

there is at least two or more unknown dynamic's at work in that group that rejected you.

RUN DON'T WALK away from that group. PERIOD.

truly you dont NEED them.


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## mldollins (Jun 21, 2008)

A five minute discussion with you and a few basic observations will many times reveal if there is a threat or not.

To reiterate a few points of his...

How were the kids dressed?
Were they behaved?
Will mom be a contributor or consumer? Govt supported or actual laborer?

Insurance companies do it all the time. Are you a risk to their group? Their bottom line is the dollar bill. This group its about people pulling their own weight and survival.

To the OP, please forgive me if I made too many presumptions. Its just that you gave very little information and we are all kind of speculating.....also, if you were to elaborate some more...that might help....thanks....


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## Owldancer (Jun 24, 2010)

ovsfarm said:


> (No offense, but an info technology guy would have to be very good at something else before I would want him in.)


OK, So being an info tech guy what exact skill should I have. 


And I would have to agree if a group treated you in this manner, then you are better off without them. I have one friend who could qualify as a prep person. So I am almost on my own, (expect for out here) but I have many friends with skill that would come in handy. I learn from them all the time.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

I think you stumbled across a paranoid group so best to avoid them, but I can still totally understand why they would say you were a risk. Having 2 teenagers - they would be worried that your teenagers couldn't keep their mouths shut about confidential matters. 

They'd think your teens would tell other people about the group's meetings and who the members are and what supplies they have and where they live etc. and the next thing you know your teens friends would tell somebody else and then all the members of the group would get their homes broken into. Stuff would get stolen and somebody could get hurt.

OPSEC. Not worth the risk because if they're typical teens then they probably can't keep their mouths shut.

I'm not trying to be insulting, just pointing out how they would think about it. Aside from considering the risk of breach of confidentiality you and your kids would still be a risk anyway - a single woman and 2 kids who don't have a man as protector, someone to keep the kids in line, provide physical strength and battle preparedness - that means a single woman and 2 kids who have to be protected by other people.

It's just not worth the risk to accept 3 strangers who don't know much or can't look after themselves. If you were friends with those people and they knew you better and that you and your teens were trustworthy they might feel different. Part of being a serious prepper involves not trusting strangers. 

.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Owldancer said:


> OK, So being an info tech guy what exact skill should I have.


One tech guy to another ... almost anything else is more useful. Tech pulls in a lot of money, which is great for prepping, but as a long term sustainable plan it's the absolute worst career choice.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Owldancer..find something you enjoy doing like gardening or wood working. These are both "marketable" after the shtf skills. Then if the dirty brown bomb never hits the spinning metal, you have an enjoyable hobby. Live life now with an eye to the future. A life lived in a foxhole is no life at all.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

I agree with finding another group.
They sound like wannabe goobers to me.

And teens can be an asset. They are strong. They have energy. Even the girls can be an asset for the same reasons.
And a single woman..well, not that awful.

And as far as HS reading and watching.. don't freak out now, but they are watching and checking everywhere you go. They know what Americans buy and eat and wear etc.. and we are not particularily different from anyone else.


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

chickenista said:


> ......And as far as HS reading and watching.. don't freak out now, but they are watching and checking everywhere you go. They know what Americans buy and eat and wear etc.. and we are not particularily different from anyone else.


FWIW, my paranoid self isn't so much worried about Big Brother watching-that's a given. I was more concerned that someone here 'turned in' someone else to Homeland Security. What's up with that? Makes me realize that no one here knows the person behind the screen name.........who's out there stalking and making trouble for people on this board? :teehee:


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

I agree about the teenagers appearance...saggy drawers, earings, hoodies = kid without a clue or work ethic 'cause you can't move with your crotch between your knees

Fashion princess with make-up hair gone wild tight butt crack showing pants and too tight shirts = trouble waiting to get pregnant

My own kids could teach the group as teenagers....words like OPSEC would make them laugh...( seriously )


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## Owldancer (Jun 24, 2010)

Bee, 
I have so many hobbies now. LOL Reenacting, gardening, carving, refinishing my house, scouts, to name a few. I was wondering what skill an info worker could get where he would be really useful, more in jest from being a computer guy. At least for me, most computer guys I know seem to have even more skills then me.


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

Ernie said:


> Don't stop posting because you're being watched. Just be careful not to cross specific lines.
> 
> We are not yet at the point where simple anti-government talk and discussions of prepping are going to get you arrested. The day they do, however, it's time to fight.
> 
> As for being on a list, well, I'd be ashamed NOT to be on a list. All my friends already are.


Gov't can watch if they want....I certainly can't stop them. But the thought that we rely on folks here for advice (at least I do) but we don't know if that person is some lunatic that is going to 'turn us in' to the authorities because they don't like something we say? That's scary! It smacks of cyber-stalking in my mind.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

Owldancer said:


> OK, So being an info tech guy what exact skill should I have.


My husband is an IT guy also. And let me tell you, there are days when I consider him a bit marginal!:smiley-laughing013:

Seriously, if you wanted to figure out good ways to plug in, communications is actually a real weak spot to consider in a postSHTF situation. You could become an expert in how ham radio could be adapted to that situation, or how well would battery powered walkie talkies work if you had only limited ways to recharge the batteries, etc.

One of the biggest issues is how for families to communicate after a catastrophic event. How is the best way for everyone to contact each other if not in the same location, with phones and power down? And there's also the whole issue of living in a society where secure communications are necessary and where the PTB are constantly monitoring what is being said. You could explore ways to utilize private communications in those situations. So in all honesty, there is a true need for communications stuff in a survival situation, but probably not at all based on computers and many of the electronic gadgets we use now.

What I generally meant by my rather tongue in cheek comment in my last post was that in order to be considered a useful contributor in a post SHTF event, a person would have to be strong in skills that did not rely on either electricity or computers. I won't discriminate against your IT leanings as long as you know how to set a bone, shoe a horse, build a barn, plow a garden, patrol a perimeter, repair a damaged firearm, etc. But if all you could bring to the table was expertise in a field that was no longer viable, then you had best be gathering up some additional skills!


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## TacticalTrout (Jan 7, 2010)

Owldancer said:


> Bee,
> I have so many hobbies now. LOL Reenacting, gardening, carving, refinishing my house, scouts, to name a few. I was wondering what skill an info worker could get where he would be really useful, more in jest from being a computer guy. At least for me, most computer guys I know seem to have even more skills then me.


Communications, at least in some scenarios, could be a very worthy skill to have and to be equipped for. If your brain is wired for the technicals of computer programming, repair or IT you might find that the mechanics of radio comms makes sense as well. Just a thought.


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## michelleIL (Aug 29, 2004)

Hey! Welcome back to the area ernie!


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

coalroadcabin said:


> Gov't can watch if they want....I certainly can't stop them. But the thought that we rely on folks here for advice (at least I do) but we don't know if that person is some lunatic that is going to 'turn us in' to the authorities because they don't like something we say? That's scary! It smacks of cyber-stalking in my mind.


Uummm - it's internet. :shrug: Don't be too trusting with strangers that you can't even see..... it could be that half the people on the board are lunatics and you would never know it. If you are reliant on people on internet then you would be a pushover for con artists who met you in person.

There is nothing wrong with accepting advice but you shouldn't be relying on anybody on internet and don't be giving out personal information that would make it easy for people to track you down. Even the friendliest, most trustworthy seeming person could be your enemy with ulterior intentions. How else are they going to get to you without being friendly and giving you advice? There are more than a few members that have found out the hard way from being too trusting with internet strangers that it can come back and bite you in the butt in a number of ways.

You don't have to get too paranoid about the cyber stalkers on the board, just be careful what you say about yourself.

.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Sooo If I say the "wrong" thing I could get company!!!????:happy::clap:

:nana: Sorry, got to go to work before I DO say the wrong thing(then I would not be home for my company)....:awh:


FYI before you all tell me how serious the subject is, I do understand; my warped sense of humor got the better of me.:smack


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

Oh please, my husband started working as a welder/machinist at 16 and is now a tech guy. He still can out weld and fabricate more stuff than most who are still working in the trade. He's handier than a pocket on a shirt and I would put him up against anyone here for figuring out how to do something. If you only go by looks you'd see Mr. Geek Tech Guy missing out on someone who can build from metal or wood, weld, still machine parts, do electrical wiring/work, chops/splits our wood, does concrete work and a host of other things. But based on what's posted here you only go by looks. :viking:

As for the op, that group wasn't for you it would seem. Sometimes starting your own group is a good thing, I have several friends that prep and we support on another totally.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Prepping support groups? Seriously?


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## TacticalTrout (Jan 7, 2010)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> Prepping support groups? Seriously?


Seriously...do you see something wrong with this? Call it a MAG (mutual assistance group) or a coop of folks that may take advantage of group purchases and leaning on others to learn different skills. A poster in another thread needed some work done in a basement (furnace or something...I'm not gonna dig for it) and found a like minded person to do the work that would come in and not freak about food stores and what not. I personally wish I had some friends or family near me that I could consider a prepping support group or whatever label you want to hang on it. Maybe your situation is different.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Don't know about any group that would accept me as a member. Don't think I would like to associate with them.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

I guess I have a little too much paranoia for any kind of a prep group. Because although I consider myself a really nice, kind, decent person, I'm afraid that I would turn into a person I would hate if it came down to preventing my precious little daughter from starving. I don't expect others to be better than I would be myself. If their children were starving, I'm not sure how far they would go to save them. I assume they would go to any and every length, as would I.

If no one knows what I have, then I don't have to shoot any loving, distraught parent to keep my child alive instead of their child. By being very private about what I have, I save myself the whole ethical issue of what to do in a situation like that. So I trust no one outside of my immediate family.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

ovsfarm said:


> My husband is an IT guy also. And let me tell you, there are days when I consider him a bit marginal!:smiley-laughing013:
> 
> Seriously, if you wanted to figure out good ways to plug in, communications is actually a real weak spot to consider in a postSHTF situation. You could become an expert in how ham radio could be adapted to that situation, or how well would battery powered walkie talkies work if you had only limited ways to recharge the batteries, etc.
> 
> ...


Yes communications is weak spot. Especially if a tech guy has radio experience it could be a quite valuable skill. As well keeping a few computers up and running stocked with downloaded web sites, e-books not to mention ability to extract and use any CD's or DVD's or hard drives or info others might have had on their computers and such and be in need of would also be valuable.

Electricity and computers aren't going away, even if the grid goes down permanently. I know my computer would simply be run by solar, and the reams of useful information stored in it such as books and how to guides, not to mention entertainment, would still be quite useful and important.

I've got a lot of other skills, far more then the average Joe, but technology skills I just can't see as becoming useless.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

d1337 said:


> Seriously...do you see something wrong with this?


Actually, yes, I do. I wouldn't want a bunch of strangers, who have no vested interest in my survival or the survival of my kids, to have ANY idea of what I had or where I had it, or what other preps I had made. YMMV.



> I personally wish I had some friends or family near me that I could consider a prepping support group or whatever label you want to hang on it. Maybe your situation is different.


Ah, but the OP isn't talking about friends or family, is she? She's talking about a group of strangers.



ovsfarm said:


> If no one knows what I have, then I don't have to shoot any loving, distraught parent to keep my child alive instead of their child. By being very private about what I have, I save myself the whole ethical issue of what to do in a situation like that. So I trust no one outside of my immediate family.


What ovsfarm said.


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## Gottabenutz (May 11, 2010)

My intro was sent over email; so the boys weren't an issue. They know how to properly use a belt; just as I do...no saggers in my house. They're actually pretty quiet kids. Anyway, they were looking for families interested in being ready for a variety of SHTF, 100% prepared not necessary. 
My actual guess is they may be part of some "militant" type group or such, that like another poster said; I'd see in the news someday! If they hadn't said OPSEC, I would have just thought maybe like Bee said and they thought we would drag down their group.
Someone recommended grouping with people from church. I'll try to think nice thoughts about those folks at my church; but the only prepping they do is for their next gossip session. 
I'll continue reading stuff here and trying to learn stuff here and there. Hopefullly HS won't be knockinng on my door for anything!


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Gottabenutz said:


> I was looking to join a group of local prep minded people to share in knowledge and bullk buying.


Doesn't sound like a bulk buying club of preppers to me.


:runforhills:


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Devils Advocate here...

I'd be loathe to join any group of strangers, and leary of any stranger wanting to join me... 

Just my 2 cents, but you (I) would need a lot of prior knowledge/interaction with someone before I'd even dream of broaching the subject.

Children, in and of themselves, imho, an OPSEC consideration, whether they're your own or someone else's. Kid's talk... that's what they do. They have friends over.... do you have all of your goods completely hidden away, from your family and their friends. Don't know about ya'll, but a locked anything is just a itch waiting to be scratched by young'uns.

Joining a group of strangers, and having two teenage children, would naturally cause concern (unless possibly they're homeschooled.)

If I were an unattached woman, I'd have to think of a lot of potentialities of joining a bunch of strangers.

Needless to say, Jerngen, you've touched upon an elemental issue of prepping, and who to trust...


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Gottabenutz said:


> I was looking to join a group of local prep minded people to share in knowledge and bullk buying. I was told, that as a single mother with two teens at home, we were detrimental to the group; actually the words used was OPSEC! I was just wondering; if you were in a group of prepper-minded people would you exclude someonne based on any criteria?


Many people are willing to teach, depending upon the level of preparedness and the skillsets you already have...... yours may not have been to te level to accept you into the group at this time and it may have been a "wait and see" if ou say anything to anyone about it, including this or any other similar forum!

Yes i know of groups that exclude, and they are decent groups, but they have been together for a long time and only open new memberships when someone moves, dies or drops out of the group and the selection process for new membership is extensive.

Ive been asked to be a member of different groups over the past 15 plus years, and declined, though being a member of the right group at the right time would be beneficial, I have always had a hard time trusting in certain types of folks....... and many times ive been correct......



Gottabenutz said:


> We're not talking about a group who plans to bug out together. We're talking a group who gets together to talk about survival stuff and buy things in bulk. Needless to say I was suprised as I thought most survival minnded folks would want to teach others how to be prepared. Am I wrong? Or did I just stumble upon the wrong group? :bored:


You may have asked a question wrong or answered a question wrong or just made a statement that threw up red flags to some folks. 

the biggest security risk to folks not knowing you is mainly can you keep quiet about what others have in their storage...... you may have let on you know more than what someone was likelto want out, and a group buying in bulk may not have wanted a POTENTIAL leak of information, although with the way records are kept these days, i suspect the dot gov agencies looking to know what you buy before your order is accepted.

William
Idaho


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## Topaz Farm (Jan 27, 2005)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> what does that even mean?


Asking again.


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## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

Topaz Farm said:


> Asking again.


Angie and Pam answered y'all on the first page  

OPSEC ='s Operational Security


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Topaz Farm said:


> Asking again.


Please read the thread, about 2 posts below hers is the explanation and a link to where the explanation came from.

I' bet you just accidentally skipped over it when you came back to new posts on this thread.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

2 of my kids don't talk---they know better.....my adopted one though needs constant supervision....incessant chatter is a symptom of RAD (reactive attachment disorder) but w/o outside audience she is very manageable and productive....which is why I homeschool and very much limit her social interactions....if the rabbits cages were bugged...no telling what agencies would be up my butt....Dept of I can't have a lollipop for breakfast?


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

To the OP, maybe you didn't follow their wannabe Chain Of Command and formally applied to become part of their 'Group'? Or could it have been that their Commanding Officer was feeling a bit insecure that day? 

That may be why I will veer away from any affilation with the wannabe/ unorganized/ para-military/ patriot fringe groups. I'll do my organized efforts with a Local/ State Level Governmental Agency which issues me an offical ID card, provides necessary logistical support, and is well organized. 

Bunch of who knows what kind of members were in that original group (were they dressed in Cammies?), and then they immediatedly start throwing out acronyms such as OPSEC (Operational Security). If they initially invited you, did they not know of your circumstances? Of your being a single parent of two teenagers?

I would suggest that you quietly leave their AO (Area of Operation) PDQ, and see if you could find some other group, besides one found by a blind meeting arrainged by an e-mail. Did you find them on Craigslist? 
Kinda of sounds like they may be the sort of folks, that you would not want to associated with - in any way, form, or manner...

I do know quite a few of my neighbors up here on the hilltop, and I am meeting more as time goes by. Maybe try looking at people near you that go fishing, hunting, garden, etc., they shouldn't be too difficult to spot. Then see if you can 'network' with them. It never fails to amaze me, when folks don't even know their own neighbors after living in the same neighborhood for years. 

For those tech folks out there, obtaining a Ham Radio License nowadays just requires buying a book and memorizing the exact questions and answers in the 'test pool' that you would be tested on.. Yet you can get as technical as one wants to be, and not just being another 'appliance operator' doing the plug-n-play thing. One can simply operate a piece of radio equipment straight out of the box, hooked up to a store bought antenna. But could a newer ham - repair or even build their own equipment or antennas as needed?


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## Topaz Farm (Jan 27, 2005)

AngieM2 said:


> Please read the thread, about 2 posts below hers is the explanation and a link to where the explanation came from.
> 
> I' bet you just accidentally skipped over it when you came back to new posts on this thread.


Thanks, guess I did miss it.


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## working-mom (Apr 19, 2004)

Gottabenutz said:


> My intro was sent over email; so the boys weren't an issue. They know how to properly use a belt; just as I do...no saggers in my house. They're actually pretty quiet kids. Anyway, they were looking for families interested in being ready for a variety of SHTF, 100% prepared not necessary.
> My actual guess is they may be part of some "militant" type group or such, that like another poster said; I'd see in the news someday! If they hadn't said OPSEC, I would have just thought maybe like Bee said and they thought we would drag down their group.
> Someone recommended grouping with people from church. I'll try to think nice thoughts about those folks at my church; but the only prepping they do is for their next gossip session.
> I'll continue reading stuff here and trying to learn stuff here and there. Hopefullly HS won't be knockinng on my door for anything!


just my 2 cents:
Please don't let the stupidity of one group slow you down in your search for like minded individuals in your area. If you don't have family/freinds that think as you do then I can totally understand wanting to find additional. I was a single mom for 10 years with out a "man" in my life. I had troubles in this area as well, but I didn't let it daunt me in the least in my search info and like minded folks. Good luck in your search hon and prayers to you and yours.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Owldancer said:


> OK, So being an info tech guy what exact skill should I have.
> 
> 
> And I would have to agree if a group treated you in this manner, then you are better off without them. I have one friend who could qualify as a prep person. So I am almost on my own, (expect for out here) but I have many friends with skill that would come in handy. I learn from them all the time.


Like Ernie said... great money right now, but a skill set with little value in a world without electricity, (unless you have off grid power), no internet, no hard drives, servers, etc.

I think DeaconJim has a thread up right now with a list of useful skills. Building a home from scratch, raising animals, a garden, a field of grain. Hand tool skills. Hunting, fishing, trapping, butchering, preparing, storing food.

Basically, anytime you pay anyone anytime to do anything for you, ask yourself.... can I do this? If you know you can, and you pay, just for convenience (time is money), fine... if you can't, make it your mission to learn how to do it, and do it well.

I went thru my skill sets, and found a hole this summer... footwear. I can make moccasins, but everything I've read over the years say they only last a few days or weeks, if 'rode hard and put up wet'. Have been collecting gear to make sandals from tires. I'd only do that if absolutely necessary... as I've had bad shoes before and suffered on long marches.... So, I filled the hole with prepped gear, namely shoes. Picked up two pair of new boots on closeout at Walmart ...Herman Survivors, 10$ and $7.50. Picked up some German and Swiss army surplus boots, 4 pair at ~20 each. 12 pair of Swiss boots, at $6 each. Figure I have a decades worth of boots easily.

Find a weakness, something you can't/haven't done, and learn how to do it... get a book, get on the internet, and just do it.

One more point about IT... we all have computers... but if the grid goes bye bye, if we don't have extra parts, when they break, they'll be cannibalized for parts or make great paper weights. If a person doesn't have a LOT of media backed up, they'll instantly be paperweights.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

texican said:


> Basically, anytime you pay anyone anytime to do anything for you, ask yourself.... can I do this? If you know you can, and you pay, just for convenience (time is money), fine... if you can't, make it your mission to learn how to do it, and do it well.


I rarely pay anyone to do anything for me beyond goods I buy like clothes and food and fuel and electricity.

My car never sees the inside of a shop, my house never sees a repairman etc. unless I just decide I'd rather pay someone than fix it myself.

I was trained as electronics tech years ago, even learned and was tested on vacuum tube stuff. That's a skill I have let degrade, barely remember any of it.


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## Pelenaka (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm well connected with another militaristic group(said with love), homeschoolers. We do long term bulk buys under the classification of "pantry stocking". How each of us choose to store our pantry items is our own business. Bomb shelter or kitchen shelves. 
Deals that are in the planning stages are; bread flour, heirloom garden seeds, and a visit to LDS cannery in March. Anyone on the email list can suggest a deal and post the facts. 
There are a few on this list that I believe to be preppers but we don't discuss it. Instead we give an alternative use for an item that is more survial inclined. Water purification tablets were a deal last spring - reason giving was for deep woods camping since a number of hoemschool Moms were teaching Louis & Clark. 
A group like you described would scare me. All I could think about is how easy it would be for these people to turn on each other or me.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

OP, I dont' know how notsuburban you are, but your kids could try FFA or 4-H and you can find a lot of homesteady connections that way. Often there are farmers who will board the animals for some sort of arrangement. You can ask around for canning classes, gardening clubs, community gardens, etc. 

I love my teenage boys(well, one is 20 now). They work hard and have a lick of sense.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Txrider said:


> I rarely pay anyone to do anything for me beyond goods I buy like clothes and food and fuel and electricity.
> 
> My car never sees the inside of a shop, my house never sees a repairman etc. unless I just decide I'd rather pay someone than fix it myself.
> 
> I was trained as electronics tech years ago, even learned and was tested on vacuum tube stuff. That's a skill I have let degrade, barely remember any of it.


There you go!

I can imagine letting vacuum tube techniques wane... it's been a ***** age since I saw a tube (in person).


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

My hubby has a tube amp  sounds pretty

one of my childhood memories is going to Radio Shack, back when it was dusty and full of shelves with things in cardboard box bins, my dad buying MORE tubes for the tv.


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## calliesue (Sep 5, 2009)

I went thru my skill sets, and found a hole this summer... footwear. I can make moccasins, but everything I've read over the years say they only last a few days or weeks, if 'rode hard and put up wet'. 

Can't remember the site now but there is a guy who makes moccasins like the ones worn by Tommy Lee in Missing. He also makes them for Renisance (?) fairs, You can learn to make them or have them custom made., But they have long lasting soles.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

calliesue said:


> I went thru my skill sets, and found a hole this summer... footwear. I can make moccasins, but everything I've read over the years say they only last a few days or weeks, if 'rode hard and put up wet'.
> 
> Can't remember the site now but there is a guy who makes moccasins like the ones worn by Tommy Lee in Missing. He also makes them for Renisance (?) fairs, You can learn to make them or have them custom made., But they have long lasting soles.


Look to the third world for foot wear solutions.

Down in South America, they use tire treads for the bottoms of sandals and moccasins.

http://www.hollowtop.com/sandals.htm


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## catahoula (Dec 14, 2005)

I have a tube amp I built from a kit, I listen to it every day. 

I thought tube stuff was EMP proof, think tube powered HAM radio run on a battery. 

Of course I have a tube amp because I'm an audioholic, it has more to do with quality of life than survival.


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## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

deaconjim said:


> When people start using terms like OPSEC in conversation, they are either engaging in some serious delusions, or they are a group that will soon be on the news. Either way, I'd steer clear and find a group with an adult in charge.


I agree with the good Deacon on this one. If they can't see the work value alone in two well brought up teen aged boys then they're off their rockers. Yes, you have to feed them, but my brothers did way more work in a good day than what it cost to feed them. Toss in a Momma who knows how to raise two good teenaged boys and who knows how to prep and well....you ARE a threat! LOL


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Bee FWIW, West Virginia has its share of schizoid groups. One planned to damage a government center in the North central area years ago. Another aspect of WV is a very organized drug trade supported by law enforcement in some areas. When you add the two together you see some curious outcomes.

"You're not from around here, are you?" is another reality. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. My thought is anyone that starts talking about operational security is not someone I want know other than in passing.

For some reason West Virginia seems to get more than its share of fugitives. People like that seem to get picked up fairly quickly. It's another reason for suspicion. Don't take any of it personally. Much of it is due to Appalachian culture.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Have you ever heard of ELF, the Earth Liberation Front? The Federal government has never been able to successfully infiltrate them. Mostly because they are all small, autonomous cells acting without coordination to any larger front. They don't receive monies from a greater state. They don't hold meetings. They don't recruit. You want to join ELF? You simply go out and commit an act that they would approve of. You won't be contacted by ELF leadership, because there is none. 

There is going to come a time when the things we discuss here in the survival forum become illegal. Many know this. They have formed bonds already that they intend to have see them through the bad times. Just because you show up on someone's doorstep and express the same views they do doesn't mean you're a friend or someone to be trusted. When the chips are down, I'm going to rely on someone I've known for years, not someone who is new to the group. 

Y'all should take this woman's original post as a warning. _The doors are closing._ Your window of opportunity to network and make the friends and allies you'll need to survive is just about up.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

Gottabenutz said:


> My intro was sent over email; so the boys weren't an issue. They know how to properly use a belt; just as I do...no saggers in my house. They're actually pretty quiet kids. Anyway, they were looking for families interested in being ready for a variety of SHTF, 100% prepared not necessary.
> My actual guess is they may be part of some "militant" type group or such, that like another poster said; I'd see in the news someday! If they hadn't said OPSEC, I would have just thought maybe like Bee said and they thought we would drag down their group.
> Someone recommended grouping with people from church. I'll try to think nice thoughts about those folks at my church; but the only prepping they do is for their next gossip session.
> I'll continue reading stuff here and trying to learn stuff here and there. Hopefullly HS won't be knockinng on my door for anything!



While it is tempting to think it is because the group is composed of whackos, it very well could be simply the dynamic.

Perhaps another previous member had teens who blabbed how dumb their parents were for getting into a group and buying hoards of food? 

That would be a big no-no for most people who prep. It is, at least to my thinking, quite reasonable to be wary of who is joining up and likely to blab that sort of thing. And from looking at so many posts on this very board where people write quite often how quiet they keep their preps, it seems likely that most of the posters here would be leery of who they simply let come in and tour their preps.

Or, it could be that they've had previous issues with a single woman and the group...or with teens and someone's son or daughter...or any number of other criteria.

While I agree that using such a word is generally strange, I also know we...as a military family....use that word in relation to hiding the Christmas presents.

It's all relative and I can't see lumping a bunch of people immediately into the lunatic fringe group because of that one thing is very helpful.

After all, how many here have posted how shockingly wrong the media gets things and how often they classify perfectly normal people as insurgents, anti-American or potential terrorists because of something very simple. 

Let's not help them in the effort to classify all preppers as dangerous.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

calliesue said:


> I went thru my skill sets, and found a hole this summer... footwear. I can make moccasins, but everything I've read over the years say they only last a few days or weeks, if 'rode hard and put up wet'.
> 
> Can't remember the site now but there is a guy who makes moccasins like the ones worn by Tommy Lee in Missing. He also makes them for Renisance (?) fairs, You can learn to make them or have them custom made., But they have long lasting soles.


Reckon if you kept material around to make soles out of, the long lasting problem would be solved. Have thought about making sandals out of tires... have the knowledge, and the tires, sawblades, knives on hand. Know it could some day come down to it..... but when I can find boots that'll last years, for the price of a hamburger combo, I jump on it.


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## mellowguy (Jul 8, 2009)

AngieM2 said:


> There are twice as many guest readers as people signed on at almost any time day or night.
> 
> Take a look at the bottom of a thread from time to time to see how many guests - some are just advertising bots, some are bots looking to answer search queries, and some are people that work at interesting places, and some are working at interesting places doing work.


I browse as a guest, and sign in only when I want to post, like right now. I should probably be a more active member of this community, but time escapes me.

I'm a semi active member in 3-4 different forums, and frequent several others as a simple guest. I've actually been a lurker on here for at least 1-2 years before signing up.

Here's another forum I frequent regularly. This one is about personal finance, and the ratio is 1 registered to 5 guests right now. I doubt the government is much more interested in people interested in personal finance than survival. 

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/index.php

Although I don't suspect that Homeland Security employees monitor regularly on here, I think that the ratio of guests to members doesn't say much about anything. As Ernie said, you should always be careful what you write.


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## marilynpacheco (Mar 28, 2011)

It's not considered a group
<img src="http://ad.retargeter.com/seg?add=106324&t=2" width="1" height="1" />


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## Geary_Johns (Oct 27, 2007)

I think the âgroupâ or whatever you want to call them have confused OPSEC Operations Security for PERSEC Personnel Security. Like a few have said, just because they chose not to add a person does not make them bad. Just because they use terms such as opsec and persec does not make them a group to steer clear off.


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## TooManyHobbies! (Mar 27, 2011)

That doesn't sound like a preparedness group of the type I'd be interested in as a parent of teens, anyway.

I suppose it depends a bit on what you are prepping for. Are you (like me) prepping for natural disasters like flood, wildfires, extended severe winter weather with power failures and business/road closures? Prepping for unemployment or a continued hard time, economically? Are your bug out bags geared toward having things ready to throw in the car if there is an evacuation of your area because of something like a chemical spill or nuclear leak?

Or, are your bug out bags primarily packed with weapons & thousands of rounds of ammo, backwoods survival gear, etc. with the idea that you'll need to hide out from the government & from the majority of the populace (or fight against one or both...)

I suspect you stumbled onto group 2 & they decided that you'd be a liability to them as an unattached woman.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm not sure I would want to join with a group of people I don't really know. I'm establishing relations with like minded neighbors.


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

Just as a side note...on OPSEC...I can remember being in an elevator at Ft Leonardwood's base hospital and it had up a sign that read: Remember your conversation can be overheard by others.


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