# Question for the girls or married fellas...



## Abandoned Barns (Dec 25, 2012)

I'm trying to come up with the right same caliber combination of rifle/pistol for our needs. I like the idea of reloading a limited amount of calibers. The long gun (I'm thinking lever action) I'd like to become my goto farm gun; mostly plinking & varmint control, but with enough pop to take down a deer @ 100 yards or so or a ferril hog or scum bag comming out of the woods. The handgun mostly for home defense. 

I'm trying hard to temper the "macho factor" and remember that the guns are also to be used for my wife. She's no sissy (with a .22 long gun she's actually a better shot then I am) but she's only 115lbs. I'm afraid that I get something too heavy or with too much recoil that she won't grab the right gun for the job when it really matters. 

I've been considering .45lc, .45 - 70, .44 & .357/.38. What can I realistically expect her to be comfortable with after a little practice? Any other caliber suggestions?

Budget is also a factor for us, so cost/round & gun price are big considerations. I'm thinking about Rossi 92 or 86 price range for long gun & for hand gun maybe about glock 20 or 17/19 price range.


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## okiemomof3 (Jan 11, 2010)

from a woman/mom's standpoint,for home defense and personal defense, i feel most comfortably with a12 gauge shot gun! 

i can shoot all the others, but this is my "goto" in case of an emergency. 

for plinking/target shooting, etc...i like the .38


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## Abandoned Barns (Dec 25, 2012)

okiemomof3 said:


> from a woman/mom's standpoint,for home defense and personal defense, i feel most comfortably with a12 gauge shot gun!
> 
> i can shoot all the others, but this is my "goto" in case of an emergency.
> 
> for plinking/target shooting, etc...i like the .38


We have a 12 Guage, but it's not the weapon I'd hope she'd choose if someone was in the house - narrow doorways, thin walls & two small boys in this mobile home. I'd like her to also be comfortable using a handgun if she needed to.


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## dkhern (Nov 30, 2012)

from your options nix the 45/70 im 6'4" 225 and i dont like to shoot more than 5-6 rds.

glock 20 will be loud and quick recoil rather then a slower push. glock 17 would be good choice get hi cap mag with low recoil. recoil comparable w/38/357 but much higher capacity

im a big fan of the lc crtg. i have a win 94 in 44mag i like it but i dont load it to max

i agree w/you on shot gun. at short range before pattern opens up even a field load can be extreamly destructive. 

lever action in lc or 44 would be ok for deer at 100yd imo i feel 357 at 100yd a little light would work w/good placement and luck. this is my opinion and other will dissagree thats why they make so many diff choices. good luck


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

think about this from two angles 

first 38/357 is just that much easier to find hand guns in , but still works for a lever gun just fine 
so if i wanted to stock or load just one ammo and would be it not reloading just buying store ammo that would be it 

if i however wasn't apposed to 2 kinds of brass 45lc and 45acp can share the same bullet and same primer and same powder 

as can 38/357 and 9mm can share the same components bullet , powder and primer almost all 9mm barrels are .357 now and not the .355 they used to be you would have to measure you guns


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## Steve L. (Feb 23, 2004)

Abandoned Barns said:


> I'm trying to come up with the right same caliber combination of rifle/pistol for our needs. I like the idea of reloading a limited amount of calibers. The long gun (I'm thinking lever action) I'd like to become my goto farm gun; mostly plinking & varmint control, but with enough pop to take down a deer @ 100 yards or so or a ferril hog or scum bag comming out of the woods. The handgun mostly for home defense.
> 
> I'm trying hard to temper the "macho factor" and remember that the guns are also to be used for my wife. She's no sissy (with a .22 long gun she's actually a better shot then I am) but she's only 115lbs. I'm afraid that I get something too heavy or with too much recoil that she won't grab the right gun for the job when it really matters.
> 
> ...


My GF (also ~115 lbs) has trouble with long guns that fit me (she's 5'5", I'm 6'). Can your wife shoot your rifles/shotguns well? I had a Rossi 92 in in 44 Mag that I think would have fit my GF, so that's an option for you. However, I don't think it has a strong enough action for the magnum loads. When I used my Ruger revolver loads in it, I was seeing some signs of high pressure, so I wouldn't recommend shooting anything other than 44 Specials in it. Don't know how they work in 357.



okiemomof3 said:


> from a woman/mom's standpoint,for home defense and personal defense, i feel most comfortably with a12 gauge shot gun!


Most loads in the 12 gauge beat my GF (~115 lbs) up too much for her to shoot well. She got a lot better when I set up one gun to fit her, and switched her to low recoil slugs.


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## PistolPackinMom (Oct 20, 2012)

I'm close to the same weight as your lady, and find that the caliber doesn't matter as much as how I hold the gun. Both thumbs forward, leaning into the target, and making sure the bore continues the straight line of my forearm allows me to handle pretty much anything, so long as the grip isn't too wide.

That said, a 9mm is the most comfortable to shoot, and the ammo is (usually!) the most affordable. I'm a fan of semi-autos, and particularly love the 1911 platform. Glocks are probably my second favorite (strange, ain't I?  ) and have the added benefit of all their mags being compatible, which is a huge advantage if you both carry Glocks.

Recoil (IME) really depends more on the gun and how it's held instead of the caliber. I've got a .380 that kicks more than one of our .45's, because of the materials used and ergonomics of the grip.

What sort of guns does your wife enjoy shooting, and what's her level of familiarity?


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## Abandoned Barns (Dec 25, 2012)

Steve L. said:


> My GF (also ~115 lbs) has trouble with long guns that fit me (she's 5'5", I'm 6'). Can your wife shoot your rifles/shotguns well?


She's good with the .22, but was terrified of my Browning 30-06. Trying to find a happy medium.


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## Abandoned Barns (Dec 25, 2012)

Abandoned Barns said:


> She's good with the .22, but was terrified of my Browning 30-06. Trying to find a happy medium.


but to be honest I've seen the woman take out a timber rattler with a bush axe so...


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## Abandoned Barns (Dec 25, 2012)

PistolPackinMom said:


> What sort of guns does your wife enjoy shooting, and what's her level of familiarity?


She's loves her .22 Marlin & that is probably the bulk of her experience. I hate to think of her trying to use it to kill a feral pig if she had to though.


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## BACOG (May 17, 2012)

Abandoned Barns said:


> I'm trying to come up with the right same caliber combination of rifle/pistol for our needs. I like the idea of reloading a limited amount of calibers. The long gun (I'm thinking lever action) I'd like to become my goto farm gun; mostly plinking & varmint control, but with enough pop to take down a deer @ 100 yards or so or a ferril hog or scum bag comming out of the woods. The handgun mostly for home defense.


If you are a reloader I recommend the .44 mag. You can load it up or down until you find the point where recoil gets untolerable. I let a woman shoot mine one time who was all of 115 lbs. She was going bam, bam, bam, this isn't bad, bam, bam, bam. She liked it.

A .44 mag (pistol or rifle) will definitely take down any sized deer @ 100 yards or less.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I know i am jumping off the suggested calibers here but , I really like the feel of the Rem 870 youth 20 ga , if i was looking for one gun for youth or small ladies to be very familiar with and call their Go To Gun it would be it 

easy to break down and clean with nothing more than a golf tee or similar pointed object , dependable , easy to fire , no hammers to have to drop if you decide not to take the shot , shells are color coded short easy to handle and relatively light and it brings the cost down they were selling for right about 300-329 and even a Rossi 357 is going to go at least a hundred more buy some extra ammo with that savings , if having rifle sights is of concern , they make them to attach to the vent rib


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## BACOG (May 17, 2012)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I know i am jumping off the suggested calibers here but , I really like the feel of the Rem 870 youth 20 ga , if i was looking for one gun for youth or small ladies to be very familiar with and call their Go To Gun it would be it


I like that idea. I read an article where they tested different size of shot for penetration through walls. I think #9 shot gave little to no penetration through a standard 4" wall.

A shotgun loaded with #9's fired inside a building would be less danger to the other occupants than a standard pistol load. And a shotgun pump being racked in the dark is an absolutely terrifying sound.


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hey,
A lot of good thinking there to me it looks like Green county was headed in the right direction then got distracted.
How about a rossi 38/357 lever action and a k frame smith 38/357 (MDL 19) the Rossi is both light weight easy to handle amazingly easy to shoot.
Easy to reload find 38/357. Frankly from the way I have been able to kill most anything I've shot at in an emergency situation I wouldn't feal underguned using it on feral humans either although I'd keep the shooting under 50 yards, but given that it should fill the bill!
Dutch


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

If it was me, I'd go with a 45LC for a rifle, and a 45 auto for the hand gun. As stated, all the same for primer and slug, you'd just need two different brass.. 

I'm a huge 45 fan... It's much easier to swap out a mag than it is to reload a revolver... and there's some wonderful 45LC levers out there.. 

If you did decide you wanted to add a revolver, there's a lot of those out there that will take a 45LC.. such as a Judge.. and you could also use a 410 shell in that too...


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

I'm the same weight and I've never had a problem with recoil even on the bigger guns. Just make sure you teach her to hold them properly and to expect the shoulder bruises every now and again. 

I prefer rifles over shotguns. I don't really like the spray. Good for it's intention but I prefer skilled hunting with a single bullet I can later pinpoint. Ha.

I don't own any of the guns I use regularly so I can't even tell you exactly what they are. There was one light-handed rifle I just loved... hold on....Winchester 357. That was my favourite.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I meant to add, about the recoil for a 45 auto... My wife was shooting mine last weekend and said the recoil wasn't too much, but she didn't like the recoil of the 357 at all and refused to shoot it after seeing how much lighter the 1911 recoil was than it was on a Ruger Security Six.. Now if you were to load the Security Six with 38, the recoil would be less than the 45, but then you're getting into more than one cal...


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

The only, or rather the first, handgun cartridge that truly gets into rifle energy levels, that delivers enough energy to knock a deer down even if things don't go perfectly, is .44 Magnum. You can get by with less, but you're depending on luck and everything going perfectly.
.44 Magnum in a lever-action carbine is good for deer out to about 150 yards. Since weight tames recoil, a big heavy revolver in .44 Magnum may not have too much recoil for a smaller person. If it does, you can step back to .44 Special or even .44 Russian in the same revolver. Because of the weight it throws, even .44 Russian carries more energy than a .38 Special+P.

You could also get .454 Casull paired with .45 long Colt for even more of a good thing.

Or you step back to .357 Magnum (which can also shoot .38 Special). .357 Magnum is a fairly substantial handgun load, but it isn't much of a long-gun load. Still, if you aim perfectly, pass up shots that aren't guaranteed, and don't have the game move once you've committed to squeezing the trigger, you can get by. It's a lot more gun than a lot of the black powder muzzle-loaders the pioneers used. There's also the fact that a lightly loaded .38 Special semi-wadcutter in a long gun is a useful plinking load, and would leave enough of a rabbit to make a meal.

Remember, with long guns and small people, it's critically important that the firearm and firer fit. If not, they can't hold the firearm firmly so recoil gets it moving and then it HITS them. It leaves the shooter crawling the stock to get to the trigger, then recoil is going to beat them up, probably all concentrated into just one corner of the butt. For any woman small enough to fit the size definition of a male youth, she should be using a youth-sized stock. There's no reason why a 115 pound woman can't shoot .30-06, unless the firearm doesn't fit her. That is probably where you went wrong. She needs youth size stocks and soft recoil-absorbent butt-pads, and if you let her shoot anything else then she's just about guaranteed to get beaten up by recoil, get scared of the calibre, and hate shooting - either that calibre, or altogether.


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## Jpchar (May 31, 2012)

My farm combo is a Winchester lever-action and Ruger SP101 in 38/357. The Winchester is small enough to use in tight spaces and capable of taking dear at 150 yards with .357 rounds. The Ruger is built like a tank and will take anything you feed it without a hiccup.

For use in home defense, inside a house with thin walls, I would use CCI .38 shotshell loads. They don't have great range, but they won't penetrate too far either. They will, however, make someone think twice about whether they want to stay in your house. You could also mix your rounds in either gun. Have two rounds of shot, two rounds of .38 +P, and then .357(s) if things are serious.

Oh! My 9 year old, 50 pound daughter can handle the Winchester with .38 +P's in it.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

well it wasnt today , and thankfully it was unloaded but I WAS DISTRACTED when my son dropped the hammer on the marlin , it was in a safe enough direction if there is one with a rifle in a house but had it been loaded i would be repairing the concrete wall in the basement 

it slipped 

that unmistakable sound of hammer on firing pin ping is very distracting 

that is why unless your very very practiced with the lowering of the hammer , you may want to avoid it in higher stress conditions.

I do however love the idea of a pump rimmed cartridge pistol carbine 

i think an ideal frame for it would be the Ithica bottom feed bottom eject M37 sized for a 410 and fitted to run a fixed barrel with 44 or 45 or 357

with that wide open bottom port you could be stuffing shells any time you weren't loading 

the safety was could be set to right or left handed by turning it over 

fitted with a receiver peep sight and a partridge front 

what wouldn't be to like


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I think #9 shot gave* little to no penetration* through a standard 4" wall.


It gives the same amount to the bad guys too.

Stick with BUCKSHOT when your *life* is on the line, and* plan your* *shot angles* rather than worrying about overpenetration


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

How about we come at this from a different perspective. You state you want to reload. Great. This means you can make lower powered rounds that won't freak out the wife and still be powerful enough to put down an intruder or feral pig. 

You are thinking about a pistol and rifle that use the same ammo. The positives to this approach are that the straight walled pistol cases are easier to reload (use a carbide die set and you don't have to lube the cases), you can't mix up the ammo, and you only have one powder, set of dies, size of primers, and diameter of bullets to keep track of. 

If you settle on weapons that can use two different cartridges, like the 38 special/357 magnum or the 44/ 44 magnum, just buy and load the bigger cases. If you use the shorter cases it leaves about 1/8 inch of the chamber unfilled. This can get crudded up with lead if you are fireing lead bullets and then won't fully chamber the longer cartridges. The crud takes a lot of effort to clean out.

Some lever action rifles can hold up to 17 rounds in the tubular magazine which is good if 4 thugs break down your door. Lever action rifles do have an issue with the exposed hammer. The older versions wind up with the hammer cocked and ready to fire when you finish loading. If you pull or snag the trigger , the gun goes off. You have to put your thumb on the hammer and slowly lower it while pulling on the trigger to lower the hammer all the way. This makes it so the gun won't go off if the trigger is accidently pulled. Lowering the hammer can be difficult with cold fingers or hands in gloves so you always have to expect the hammer to slip. Point the gun in a safe direction while lowering the hammer. The newer lever guns have some form of safety and are less likely to accidently discharge.

Pistols in 357 and 44 magnum are usually revolvers. They require that you cock the hammer before they can fire. Single action means you have to pull the hammer back and it locks. Then the trigger will fire the gun and it's usually a very light trigger pull. Double action means you can pull the trigger and the gun will cock the hammer and fire. This requies a lot more force on the trigger. 

I have to go now. hope this gives you some useful info.


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

I love plinking with my .22. I am very comfortable and confident with my 12g, but if I had my choice FOR A gun for knocking over a deer at 100 yards. I would have to chose the 30-30. I am surprised that it has not been mentioned yet???


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## KyMama (Jun 15, 2011)

PistolPackinMom said:


> Recoil (IME) really depends more on the gun and how it's held instead of the caliber. I've got a .380 that kicks more than one of our .45's, because of the materials used and ergonomics of the grip.


Totally agree with this. I was afraid to shoot my DH's .45, but him and my son _talked_ me into and I love it. My .380 makes my hand sore if I put too many rounds through it, but I could shoot that .45 all day.

And I agree with the comments about the size of rifle being more important than the caliber. My son has a rifle that I can't even hold up because of the length and weight. I'm not a gun expert but maybe you could look at something that has a telescoping stock so that it "fits" both of you. 

My home defense is a Mossberg 500 youth 20 gauge. But my home's layout is probably different than yours. The bad guys have to come down a hallway to get to me and my boys. Nowhere for them to go and a lot better chance of me hitting them in the confined space. 

Sorry that I don't have any advice on caliber size, but I'm not that experienced with rifles. (I love my .22) Do you have any friends or family that have something that you could borrow to see if she likes it?


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## RedRidge (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm only 5'2" and our most common caliber is 9mm
That said... I find it isn't the caliber so much as the weapon.
a) if she doesn't like it, she won't practice with it
b) if it's not dependable and fits well, she won't like it

So... while 9mm is our standard, it would only be a good choice if there was a 9mm weapon that was her choice... I'm a glock person myself.
That said, I am very fond of the Bersa Thunder .380 for concealment. I don't say that easily because I dispise most .380s

A 45 isn't too much if it's the right load in the right weapon... but you need to let her decide.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

I'm w/ Greencountrypete 20ga pump in a youth stock. When DW decided she wanted her own gun we went with a 16ga 870 with a youth stock added. It's so nice I keep borrowing it to hunt with.
The 20 with the plug pulled and loaded as follows:
2 smallest buckshot you can find or largest steel shot (T,F etc)
2 big birdshot like 4
2 trap load 7-9 shot size (one in the chamber)

The trap loads are effectively big super soft slugs out to about ten feet. For the next ten to fifteen feet they'll hit HARD even if they don't kill. The 4s will kill at most household ranges and can also be effective on farm pests (like ****) out to pretty good ranges. The buckshot goes without saying.


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## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

BACOG said:


> And a shotgun pump being racked in the dark is an absolutely terrifying sound.


That and the angry buzz of a rattlesnake are two sounds that almost everyone instantly recognizes as possible danger, even if they have never heard it before.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It gives the same amount to the bad guys too.
> 
> Stick with BUCKSHOT when your *life* is on the line, and* plan your* *shot angles* rather than worrying about overpenetration


On most human beings 4 inches of penetration in the center of the chest is slamming into the center of the heart, not the surface but the center? The important thing about the fine shot is that it does function like a slug real close. But even a little further out (like 10 yards) a complete load of 9 shot from a trap load opens up to about a 4-10" pattern. Might not make a penetrating kill shot but it will knock the wind out of you same as a bean bag or rubber slug. Which is why I suggested the loading I did. And big bird shot is way underrated, I know an old timer that regularly killed deer with 4s. He limited his shots to about 40 yards but said they dropped like a rock.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I had a 20 ga loaded like that one time fist up in the tube was 3 rounds of #6 bird shot then 2 slugs , shooting a **** at about 5 yards , i knew i hit it with 3 rounds of #6 lead bird shot before i got to the slug that finished it , it would be half knocked of it's feet with each hit then get right back to walking then hit again i was so close i could see the fur move no question i was hitting it , all body shots aiming center 
2 things i learned bird shot will mess you up but not stop a critter so don't wast time on bird shot for anything but birds and real small stuff like rabbits and squirrel , cause if a big **** can take it some bad guy in a leather coat , don't shoot to kill , shoot to stop and bird shot only stops the undetermined.
could the **** have already been dead an just not known it , maybe but it and I were sure when it took the slug. cause that's when it stopped 

I also have a co worker who was shot about 20 years ago with #6 bird shot nearly point blank in the gut , they had to re route his stomach for a bit and he had a feeding tube , but he is alive.

I have another co worker who was shot nearly point blank with a 9mm fmj it traveled thru his right upper leg and into his left.

my uncle was shot with a 22 in the back of the shoulder , he walked out of the hospital the same day, his initial thought was what just stung me as he was shot from a distance , they never found who shot him or they could have answered the question what is the lead on a guy in a motor boat going down the river.

you would never know any of them had been shot if it weren't for scars


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## Lilith (Dec 29, 2012)

Best advice I can offer you is to ask her what she wants to shoot. 

My husband and I have EXTREMELY different shooting styles. He is of the military spray and pray school (don't tell him I said that) and I am a Kentucky windage gal. We did decide to have his and hers guns, but in a limited number of calibers. We have pistol, small game, large game, and shotgun. This means that there are only 4 sizes of ammunition running around our house, and I have made him come over to the dark side and he shoots both my large game and small game loads now. (His accuracy has improved as well.) Where we store all our ammunition in our gun safe, we have one load per shelf. This means that even in the dark, I can quickly grab a gun and the right ammunition for it, and I even have a choice of my load or his for the pistol. You can't say that I won't think about this in an emergency, because this is where I ALWAYS grab the ammunition for that gun from. It quickly becomes muscle memory. 

This affects our reloading very little. We have 3 powders (pistol, small rifle, and large rifle) 3 bullet tips, 3 primers, and the shotgun stuff. Even before I shot the barrel out of my wild cat, we only had 3 powders and 3 primers. 

I would resist the urge to over simplify your reloading supplies and go with what works over what is absolutely correct.


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