# Plug in hybrid from Toyota?



## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,

I guess this would be a good thing? It would be nice to see it powered from your home PV rig rather than plugging into a coal fired electric plant?
Gary


From Toyota:
TM:US
Toyota Motor Corp
Toyota May Add U.S. Plug-In Hybrid, Ethanol-Fuel Cars (Update1)

July 18 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp., the largest seller of hybrid
autos, may produce gasoline-electric models that can be recharged at any
outlet to reduce the use of fuel, the company's North American chief said.

``We are pursuing a `plug-in' hybrid vehicle that can travel greater
distances without using its gas engine, conserving more oil and slicing smog
and greenhouse gases to nearly imperceptible levels,'' Jim Press, president
of Toyota Motor North America, said in a Washington speech today. Toyota is
also ``strongly considering'' adding models able to use ethanol ``in the
near term,'' he said.

Toyota, which trails only General Motors Corp. in global sales, sold 73
percent of the 116,767 hybrid cars and trucks purchased by U.S. consumers in
the first half of 2006, led by the Prius. U.S. gasoline prices stuck near $3
a gallon for much of 2006 have fueled demand for hybrids. U.S. sales of the
vehicles rose 26 percent in the first half of the year as total industry
sales dropped 2.4 percent.

Press, 59, last month said Toyota has ``aggressive'' plans to expand sales
of hybrids, which combine a gasoline engine and electric motor. Their
battery packs are recharged by brakes that capture energy from stopping to
save fuel and limit pollution.

``Plug-ins could be a good thing, but the devil is in the details: What's
the driving distance? What's the cost?,'' said Daniel Becker,
Washington-based director of the Sierra Club's global warming program. ``The
challenge is to maintain the best attributes of gas-electric hybrids without
bringing back the worst aspects of pure electrics, like high cost and poor
range.''

Plug-In Hybrids

Plug-in hybrids recharge at any standard electrical outlet when the vehicle
isn't in use and switch to the gasoline engine when the batteries are
drained. Such vehicles would need about twice the amount of battery used in
a Prius, David Hermance, Toyota's U.S. executive engineer for advanced
technology vehicles, said in a June interview.

GM is also developing a plug-in hybrid vehicle that may be revealed as early
as January at the Detroit auto show, GM officials familiar with the project
said last month. The car would travel more than 60 miles on a gallon of
gasoline, said the officials, who asked not to be identified because the
research is secret.

Press said Toyota aims to offer hybrid options across its entire model line.
To cut the cost of such vehicles, the company is attempting to reduce the
size of components by up to 75 percent.

The First

Press, who is also chairman of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, the
industry's largest trade group, is the first non-Japanese manager to be
president of the Toyota City, Japan- based automaker's North American unit.
He succeeds Hideaki Otaka, who resigned in May after a suit was filed by a
former assistant who claimed to have been sexually harassed by Otaka.

U.S. shares of Toyota fell $2.25, or 2.3 percent, to $94.90 in New York
Stock Exchange composite trading at 1:27 p.m. They have fallen 7.1 percent
this year through yesterday.

To contact the reporters on this story:
Alan Ohnsman in Los Angeles at [email protected];
John Hughes in Washington at [email protected]

*Last Updated: July 18, 2006 14:30 EDT*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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## JAK (Oct 15, 2005)

Cars are still disappointingly expensive and overpowered.
They should provide the option of a much smaller engine.
At least the plug in hybrid will provide some flexibility.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Yeah,Im glad toyota is thinking of doing what the aftermarket engineers and tinkerers are doing.If this becomes reality,I would like my retirement to include PVs and just such a vehicle.

BooBoo


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## Helena (May 10, 2002)

Spoke with a young women the other day when I saw her with her Ford hybrid. She was so very thrilled because she got 28 miles to a gallon...??? I was polite and didn't want to mention that my '91 VW Jetta gets that at least. She said that it runs on electric until about 30 miles an hour and then goes into using gas. It was a 4 wheel drive that she simply needed..I have always managed to climb to my mountain home with the old VW all these years with our snowy PA mountains winters. Hmmmm...should I have been impressed ??


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## Ramblin Wreck (Jun 10, 2005)

I caught part of a special on the Discovery Channel the other day. It was titled "Addicted to Oil" and was created/hosted by Thomas Friedman of the NY Times. One of the many interviews was with a hybrid car owner who, along with others, wondered why an opening in the dash was covered by a filler/face plate. It turns out that the same car is sold outside the US with a home recharging option. Why not have the option in the US: Because the company spent millions in this country advertising the importance not being tied to the "plug". Ah, marketing rules again!! 

If you get a chance to watch this documentary, I highly recommend it.


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## Unregistered (Aug 27, 2004)

I filled up on gas today and checked my mileage. I drive this car only back and forth to work. At least half is city driving. I got 37.5 mpg. This is not a new car, 94 mitsubishi eclipse. Surely they have improved since then.


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Ramblin Wreck said:


> I caught part of a special on the Discovery Channel the other day. It was titled "Addicted to Oil" and was created/hosted by Thomas Friedman of the NY Times. One of the many interviews was with a hybrid car owner who, along with others, wondered why an opening in the dash was covered by a filler/face plate. It turns out that the same car is sold outside the US with a home recharging option. Why not have the option in the US: Because the company spent millions in this country advertising the importance not being tied to the "plug". Ah, marketing rules again!!
> 
> If you get a chance to watch this documentary, I highly recommend it.



Hi, 
I wonder if they got that right.
The Prius in the US is missing a switch that the ones marketed elsewhere have. The switch allows you to force the Prius to start out on battery only (not stat the IC engine). 
Some of the Prius experts on the Yahoo Prius 2G group have looked into this in agonizing detail, and their data shows that using the switch does not improve gas mileage.

Anybody know any more about this?

------
On hybrid mileage, the hybrids vary a lot. 
An SUV in hybrid version is still not going to get good mileage -- it will do better than the pure gas version, but you can't overcome an extra ton of dead weight by adding an electric motor.

On some of the new hybrids (e.g. the Accord) they used the hybrid advantage as much to increase acceleration as economy, so the hybrid accelerates faster than a regular Accord, but does not do as much better in the mileage department as it could have -- seems like a bad decision to me.

My Prius gets 50 mpg -- I've kept track of every fill up for 25,000 miles. 
It varies from 45mpg up to 56 mpg -- all kinds of driving.

There is a good site for evaluating hybrids:
http://hybridcars.com/calculator/index.php

It lets you plug in your current car and a hybrid of your choice.

Going from a Ford Exploer to a Prius it shows this:

--------- Ford -- Prius
Gas use 927 gal 270 gal
Gas cost $2780 $809 
MPG 16 56
CO2 17,600 lb 5127 lb

I suppose its a extreme comparison, but, we live in the SUV, pickup truck capital of the world (Bozeman, MT), and when I drive into town and look at the sea of SUVS and pickup, 99% of them have one or two persons and nothing the back of the PU.
Just my 2 cents, but it seems like we should be making some changes.

I've had the thought that around here, a lot of people buy a pickup for that once in a while they will need to haul something. If there was a "Truck Share" service where you could borrow a PU for a few hours, I wonder if more people would buy smaller cars??



Gary


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## kabri (May 14, 2002)

My Prius (2003) gets consistantly 54 mpg in summer if I don't run the AC. About 48 in winter cause I DO use the heater! Makes a difference! Would love to be able to plug in at night, anyone figure out how much $ per gallon the electricity would be, or how to calculate it?


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## DrippingSprings (Sep 22, 2004)

In recent independent tests several different magazines exposed the fact that the diesel tdi jetta gets just as good and sometimes better mileage than the hybrids out there including the prius


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## DrippingSprings (Sep 22, 2004)

btw my grandfather has an old vw rabbit that gets right at 50 and its diesel


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## DrippingSprings (Sep 22, 2004)

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-06-10-diesel-vs-hybrid_x.htm


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## Ramblin Wreck (Jun 10, 2005)

SolarGary said:


> Hi,
> I wonder if they got that right.
> The Prius in the US is missing a switch that the ones marketed elsewhere have. The switch allows you to force the Prius to start out on battery only (not stat the IC engine).
> Some of the Prius experts on the Yahoo Prius 2G group have looked into this in agonizing detail, and their data shows that using the switch does not improve gas mileage.
> ...


I think the car on the Friedman special was a Honda Civic...which probably wouldn't compare with a Prius...which is the subject of this thread!


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## WanderingOak (Jul 12, 2004)

DS, that article is 2 years old. Also, VW is discontinuing TDI sales for their 07 year, bringing in a new diesel when lower-sulpher diesel is available. It should be 2008, or at least that is what I heard. Then again, I have also heard that there will be several more diesels to compete with VW when that happens. Perhaps a diesel hybrid geting 60+ MPG could be in the future.


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

WanderingOak said:


> DS, that article is 2 years old. Also, VW is discontinuing TDI sales for their 07 year, bringing in a new diesel when lower-sulpher diesel is available. It should be 2008, or at least that is what I heard. Then again, I have also heard that there will be several more diesels to compete with VW when that happens. Perhaps a diesel hybrid geting 60+ MPG could be in the future.


Here is one hybrid diesel:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/01/psa_peugeot_cit.html

Sounds nice, but still quite a couple years out.

Gary


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

SolarGary said:


> Here is one hybrid diesel:
> http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/01/psa_peugeot_cit.html
> 
> Sounds nice, but still quite a couple years out.
> ...


Now that sounds phenomenal... throw in biodiesel production and you have a winner there.


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## WanderingOak (Jul 12, 2004)

What would be interesting is a 'diesel-electric' hybrid, with a small diesel genset under the hood, a modest battery pack and electric motors to drive the wheels. If it was done right, a transmission may not be required at all, except for reverse. Gensets are usually more efficient and last longer than other IC engines because they are optimized to run at a fixed speed. What wastes the most fuel and causes the most engine wear is acceleration. Submarines and freight trains have been using this technology for decades.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Wouldnt even need a transmission for reverse, just reverse the current,right?

Yes,thats a good sytem you describe.Charge batteries at home,and on board charging for range increases under currently available battery systems.

BooBoo


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## WanderingOak (Jul 12, 2004)

mightybooboo said:


> Wouldnt even need a transmission for reverse, just reverse the current,right?
> 
> BooBoo


That would work for a DC motor, and it _might_ for a properly designed AC motor. I think for AC, you would need two sets of windings, once for forward, and one for reverse. AC motors are more efficent, powerful and compact than DC motors, at least that is the impression that I have.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

I didnt know they were AC motors,or that it even makes a difference.
I like the motor per wheel designs.

BooBoo


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## Dubai Vol (Mar 22, 2006)

I buy A/C motors that reverse just by switching two wires in the connection box, so that's not an issue. I also like the motor per wheel design, except for the unsprung weight issue. Also, regenerative braking. Use the motors as generators when you need to slow down. That's also simple switching, there's an old army genset that uses its generator as a starter motor....


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

Its about time. Id buy an all electric care just for commuting if they were still produced. I have a 19 mile commute. I dont need a huge range on an electric car


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

WanderingOak said:


> What would be interesting is a 'diesel-electric' hybrid, with a small diesel genset under the hood, a modest battery pack and electric motors to drive the wheels. If it was done right, a transmission may not be required at all, except for reverse. Gensets are usually more efficient and last longer than other IC engines because they are optimized to run at a fixed speed. What wastes the most fuel and causes the most engine wear is acceleration. Submarines and freight trains have been using this technology for decades.


A multi fuel diesel that would run on veggy oil, clean used engine oil, Ethanal, whatever.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

The EV-1 came up on another thread.The 2nd generation had real world drivers getting 160 miles range on NiMh batteries.In a comfortable real live car.And it was fast,shut down Mustangs and jags,eat miatas,give porsches a run for the money.

Further research brought up cars now getting 300 miles per charge on Lithium batteries

Add an on board diesel generator,you would have probably (in my case) 98% of my driving on batteries,yet still have a long range option.

Now that would be a vehicle,eh?
Grid tie with 2 tier price metering,charging at night?
Sell solar at prime prices during the day like the guy in homepower last month did?
Your own solar to charge?

I would spend 20 grand for panels to have that option of vehicle use too.

Hope we see those 300 mile battery cars a reality someday.The EV-1 sure was a great step,lets see if the japanese make it a true reality,doubt america will.
The EV-1 worked.GM crushed em,but they now know electrics are real.

BooBoo


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