# Question about title, for realtors



## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

When my husband died, I went to court and got our house in my name...my DH's name was on all the papers before that.

A few months later, I paid the mortgage on the house off. The mortgage (JP Chase) was in DH's name alone. The people holding the mortgage told me I needed to get a loan assumption but would not send me the papers for that, although they SAID they did, multiple times. Finally, I got mad and asked them WHY I couldn't just go ahead and pay it off while it was in DH's name. They said because they would not issue a refund of escrow in MY name. I told them no problem with that! And sent the final pay-off amount.

I soon received a letter (in DH's name) stating that a lein release would be sent to the city. I checked downtown at the courthouse later on and sure enough, there was the lein release, all recorded.

Now, for the question: The court transfered the house to me/my name and that is at the recorder of deeds, and then three months later, the lein release arrives and it is in DH's name, at the recorder of deeds. When I go to sell the house, will I have a problem because the deed and release is in two different names? Will a marriage certificate/death certificate and the probabte records take care of this?

Mon


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## HOTW (Jul 3, 2007)

I would go to th ecourt house and talk to the clerk and bring a copy o fthe death certificate. LAso bring copies of your correspondence. They usually are veyr helpful at the clerks office


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## ozarkchaz (Feb 4, 2005)

If the deed is in your name, you should have no problem. It is proof of legal ownership.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

There are ALL sorts of clerks there! 

I have no deed in hand. They already have death records and probate records. The person/clerk in the recorder's office says it would be no problem. She was also about 22 years old and on the job for six months. What a person SAYS is worth the paper it's written on, usually.

Can I just go to a title office and ask them to run a check to see if the title is clear?

Mon


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

You do not have a problem. The property is in your name, and the debt does not exist any longer. 

Sounds to me like Chase has a problem if they are willing to steal from your late husbands estate. This comes as no surprise to me.

You do not need a Realtor. A Realtor's function is to bring buyer and seller together, nothing more. What you have asked is a legal question, and could be answered by a lawyer, for a fee or; a 22 year old clerk who does this every day and is well supervised by a person who is elected.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

edcopp said:


> ....be answered by a lawyer, for a fee or; a 22 year old clerk who does this every day and is well supervised by a person who is elected.


Unfortunately, those particular people aren't elected, here.

Mon


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## ozarkchaz (Feb 4, 2005)

If the deed was officially recorded by the county, it is public record. Ask in person at the county recorders office to see the original, and/or request a copy.

Or...Just go to the county "recorder" or "assessor" website, and look the property up by owner name or parcel number to see the deed.

The title company should be able to assist too, they were paid a fee for their services. The least they can do is address your concerns.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

This is St Louis city...we are not IN a county. I went to the city recorder's office, checked on their computers and I am listed as the property transfered to me. The lein release, in DH's name, appears a touch later.

Honest, I just want to check to make sure there's no hitches when I have a buyer. Reason I asked for input from a Realtor, I'm sure if they've been in business for a while, they've had one of those last minute glitches.

Mon


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Your Title Company can insure the Title is clear. If your name is on the Deed, a Realtor would be able to list your property. If there weren't any mistakes made by the County, only your name should be on your property record (easy to see that online).

I didn't see your question as a Legal one, as Realtors get asked questions about Title issues regularly. We are supposed to know which questions we can answer, and which ones to refer to other professionals. Right now, I am working with a Seller, whose Ex-DW is on the joint mtg, also on the Title of the home he has listed with me. He asked me if his Ex-DW had to sign everything. I told him yes, of course, since they both held Title. His other option would be to get a limited form of Power of Attorney, for only the Real Estate Transaction.



> A Realtor's function is to bring buyer and seller together, nothing more


According to you, I work wayyyyy too hard for my Clients... :hammer:

There is a lot more to being a Realtor who serves his/her Clients as Listing Agent or Buyers Agent, even if fulfilling just the basic fiduciary responsibilities. I won't start a thread drift though :cute:


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

edcopp said:


> You do not need a Realtor. A Realtor's function is to bring buyer and seller together, nothing more. What you have asked is a legal question, and could be answered by a lawyer, for a fee or


Obviously you haven't done much business with a good realtor. I have had good agents do everything from make interior design decisions, and supervise the flip of a home in a distant location, on my behalf, to saving a deal by walking a totally bat turd crazy buyer "off the ledge" when the deal was about to collapse due to imaginary issues. I've had great agents and really, really bad ones too. A great one does far more than just finding a buyer. Any good realtor can answer the OP's "legal" question. When it comes to legal questions and fees, many lawyers will do a brief consultation for no charge. 

One note about the OP's situation. I've been butt deep in estates for three years now. My mom, dad and MIL all passed recently. I know how rough it can be dealing with incompetent or dishonest banks. My battle with BOA is over, but I wouldn't wish USAA on my biggest enemy. When it comes to estate issues they are scum. The one big issue here is how to handle events like Chase refusing to deal with you, and issuing a refund in your late husband's name. Many times they are bound by federal banking law and have no choice but to issue correspondence and funds in the name of the decedant. Once you are granted control of the estate by your local court, you have total control over anything in your late husband's name. You should have a document from your court that clearly names you as the executor. Sending a copy of this to the bank should end the battle over who deserves your husband's assets. I wrote "should" because it doesn't always go smoothly. My wife and I both had cases of banks who refused to cooperate, in violation of state and federal law, even when they had all the proper documentation. Sometimes it's just a matter of not giving up until you find somebody at the bank who knows what they are doing, and sometimes it takes a nastygram from your lawyer to stop the games, but they eventually will cooperate, if you don't let up. . You should have an estate checking account opened and you can deposit any estate related funds in there. Remember, at some point you will have to file tax returns for the estate. Good luck, I hope it all goes as smoothly as possible for you.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

I read numerous cases of people with a Chase mortgage waiting over two YEARS and still not receiving the papers for a loan assumption (due to a death). I didn't want a loan, I wanted to pay it off and was told I HAD to get a loan assumption, which they didn't send the papers for.

I think that they secretly hope the family will go belly up and they'll get the house back!

Mon


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

frogmammy said:


> Unfortunately, those particular people aren't elected, here.
> 
> Mon


That's bad.:hrm:


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

frogmammy said:


> When my husband died, I went to court and got our house in my name...my DH's name was on all the papers before that.
> 
> A few months later, I paid the mortgage on the house off. The mortgage (JP Chase) was in DH's name alone. The people holding the mortgage told me I needed to get a loan assumption but would not send me the papers for that, although they SAID they did, multiple times. Finally, I got mad and asked them WHY I couldn't just go ahead and pay it off while it was in DH's name. They said because they would not issue a refund of escrow in MY name. I told them no problem with that! And sent the final pay-off amount.
> 
> ...


Even a "good" Realtor can NOT practice law. Ever. Nowhere. Get some info before you attempt to judge me or my knowledge.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

> Obviously you haven't done much business with a good realtor. I have had good agents do everything from make interior design decisions, and supervise the flip of a home in a distant location, on my behalf, to saving a deal by walking a totally bat turd crazy buyer "off the ledge" when the deal was about to collapse due to imaginary issues. I've had great agents and really, really bad ones too. A great one does far more than just finding a buyer. *Any good realtor can answer the OP's "legal" question*. When it comes to legal questions and fees, many lawyers will do a brief consultation for no charge


Here, you made excellent points! The confusion lies a bit with understanding when a question can be answered by providing information or when we must refer to an Attorney. 

Clarifying public information with frogmammy. isn't practicing Law. She was referred to a Title Company. They can assist her and then refer her to an Attorney, if necessary.

If an Agent/Realtor offered to "take care of this for frogmammy," then that would be practicing Law. The same would go if one was to advise her in a Legal capacity. 

In Real Estate, Agents/Realtors are supposed to understand Title issues to a degree, so they can refer to the right professionals. 

In not thread drifting too much, I'll share that I read my Client's Title Reports. Am I doing this for them, guaranteeing them anything? NO! I read the Reports to offer another pair of eyes. This allows me to possibly uncover something that may be missed. The Escrow Officer I use, also reads the Title Reports. We discovered an error in a Legal Description, so I referred that Client to a Real Estate Attorney to have it corrected (he re-wrote the Legal Description). I tell every single Client to read the Title Report completely! They always are pleased when I call and ask them to refer to a page, due to something I read (warranting their attention). 

Any Agent/Realtor who lists a property is supposed to insure the Seller is the Legal Owner. We pull up County Records to confirm they are showing at the County level. When the Title Report is done, the Chain of Title, is then reviewed. If there are problems, an Attorney is referred to resolve them. In some cases, an Escrow Agent can. There are times when Title Companies will give out some general information to assist their Customers.

I do Short Sale Negotiation for some of my Clients, and refer Attorney's for others. This is allowed in WA State. Only under certain situations, will I do the Negotiation, due to the legalities that can arise. I referred some Clients to an Attorney, when I learned of the complexity of their situation. They brought in all their Tax Returns, Mortgage Documents, and etc..., asked me to copy it all for them, keep a copy in my office, and one for the Attorney. I had to explain to them, I don't keep confidential documents, they would need to scan what the Attorney asked for, and send everything to him. The other option, to save $,. was to copy the documentation requested as they may be charged for printing services if they emailed the documents. I did tell them to clarify how much the Attorney wanted, as they were preparing to give him far more than the standard Short Sale paperwork required (I saw the list the Atty sent). 

I also offer FREE Credit Repair Counseling, for my Clients. Here, I put it in caps, to emphasize that I do not charge for this service, as I didn't want to get licensed to do it. I have five years of Loan Officer experience and did a lot of Credit Repair for my Clients in that capacity. WA State requires licensing if Credit Repair is charged for. 

In addition to my Real Estate representation, the extra free services are what differentiates me from others. Most good Agents, going the extra mile, assist in all kinds of non-real estate related areas. They are still held to Legal Standards and absolutely cannot practice Law.


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

edcopp said:


> Even a "good" Realtor can NOT practice law. Ever. Nowhere. Get some info before you attempt to judge me or my knowledge.


 your kidding right??? If I call my realtor, title insure agent, settlement agent or other knowledgeable person and ask, " I would like to list this property for sale, can you do a quick check of the county records to see if I hold clear title, before we start the process?" in YOUR mind the person that person is practicing law. No need to judge you or knowledge on that one............you have made it pretty clear.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Today, I attended an Attorney Consultation, which included a presentation on Short Sales, Foreclosures, Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure, Non-Judicial Foreclosure, Judicial Foreclosure, Deficiency Judgments, and all the effects of those on Credit! This was with a Client of mine, with spouse. At the end of the Consultation, I was given the Divorce Decree, to provide to the Title Company. Why? The property to be sold shows an Ex-DW on Title, but in the Divorce Decree, she was to be taken off Title. The Attorney then told me to contact the Ex-DW, speak with her about the process, and inform her that he was going to be assisting her Ex-DH in Short Sale Negotiation. There will be documentation required and I can either request it and send it to the Attorney or the Ex-DW can get in touch with the Attorney and I am out of the loop. As it now stands, this Ex-DW doesn't need to sign any of the Real Estate paperwork.

The line was clear in that I was not the one advising the Clients in any legal capacity, but I was assisting them. 

The Consultation was very informative! Just before the ending, the Attorney told my Clients he was very pleased to see I was there with them. He also informed us that only 2% of Agents attend, even though they are all invited (?)


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

wharton said:


> your kidding right??? If I call my realtor, title insure agent, settlement agent or other knowledgeable person and ask, " I would like to list this property for sale, can you do a quick check of the county records to see if I hold clear title, before we start the process?" in YOUR mind the person that person is practicing law. No need to judge you or knowledge on that one............you have made it pretty clear.


There is a slight difference between reading PUBLIC RECORDS and practice of law. You might enhance your "profession" by learning the difference.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

frogmammy said:


> my DH's name was on all the papers before that.
> 
> The mortgage (JP Chase) was in DH's name alone.
> 
> ...


I am not a lawyer, but it appears to me that all things are good here. The lien was against the property, in your husbands name, and has been properly released (in his name) by the bank, and duly recorded. If you want to ease your mind further, speak to an attorney in your state about this.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wharton said:


> Obviously you haven't done much business with a good realtor. I have had good agents do everything from make interior design decisions, and supervise the flip of a home in a distant location, on my behalf, to saving a deal by walking a totally bat turd crazy buyer "off the ledge" when the deal was about to collapse due to imaginary issues. I've had great agents and really, really bad ones too. A great one does far more than just finding a buyer.* Any good realtor can answer the OP's "legal" question.*


I was a pretty good agent while I was in the game, and provided a lot of "extra" services for my clients and customers, right down to helping unload the moving truck for one couple. However, in my state answering any legal questions was (and to my knowledge still is) strictly forbidden by not only state law, but KREC regulations as well. Our standard answer was always to refer them to an attorney for those answers. Good habits are hard to break... if you will notice my answer to the OP directly above. I first announced that I was NOT an attorney, and that things "appear" to be in order, but also recommend they speak to an attorney in "their" state.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wharton said:


> your kidding right??? If I call my realtor, title insure agent, settlement agent or other knowledgeable person and ask, " I would like to list this property for sale, can you do a quick check of the county records to see if I hold clear title, before we start the process?" in YOUR mind the person that person is practicing law. No need to judge you or knowledge on that one............you have made it pretty clear.


That person would only be practicing law if they gave you an official answer to your question regarding the status of title on your property. They are perfectly within their bounds to look up the public records, but offering an opinion of title is a bit beyond their qualifications. Not only that, only a fool would ask a real estate agent to do their legal work for them. It would be akin to asking your plumber to perform your heart bypass surgery.


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