# Uneasy feeling about selling land



## MeatCountry

My neighbor of 2 years approached me asking me if I would sell a piece of land to them, it was a small section on their side which I assumed they wanted legal right to set their tractor and other yard equipment on. I told them that was fine.

Fast forward neighbor approaches me with the paperwork I look it over and now they want another piece of my land not mentioned in our conversation. Plus there is no official land survey as to what the neighbor specifically wants. Then they are asking about purchasing land that is not mine?

To be honest now I'm having second thoughts about selling. The small land he wants for his tractor I don't care but the other section they want......I'll admit I'm not keen on. Think of the total plot of land in the shape of the american flag. The blue and stars are the neighbors and the blue and white stripes are mine. The neighbors have to drive on my property to get their home on a very small plot. I have rest of over 4 acres. 

Over the past 2 years the neighbor has taken upon themselves to not only mow my plot well beyond the survey stakes but also started cutting back my trees and bushes and nothing has been set yet. I know most folks are going to say talk to them, well the wife is certainly not nice but I will try to catch the guy. I just want to know how to handle this. Honestly they are for the most part quiet but I want to kick the person who sold them this small patch on my property.


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## mzgarden

Yes, you're probably going to need to try to talk with him. For one thing - he's asking for property that's not yours in the paperwork and the other thing - if he's written up paperwork for land that IS yours that you did NOT agree to sell, then the whole thing needs to be rewritten.


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## crehberg

I'd nip it in the bud right now if possible. I've heard the saying many times over the years "good fences makr good neighbors"...and there is good reason why. It sounds like you've been letting them "ease in on you" for a while...I've been guilty of the same thing.

Talk to em....get it straightened out....


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## hiddensprings

I would think a survey of the area they are wanting to buy is in order that way there is nothing that is uncertain. And do not sign anything you know exactly what they want and personally, I'd have an attorney review it to ensure the legal description is correct on what they are buying.


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## ladytoysdream

Hi.
I don't understand this statement that you made.
* I want to kick the person who sold them this small patch on my property.*
If the property is yours....then who sold them the small section ?
Is that piece of property surveyed ? How big is it ?

*You NEED a lawyer.* And get a lawyer who knows real estate transactions.

*Do NOT sign anything with your neighbor*. You need to have the lawyer read it over
and advise you. Who drew up the paperwork neighbor wants you to sign ?
The neighbor ?

Why do the neighbors have to drive on your land to get to theirs ?
Do they have a right of way ? Sounds like the little piece is land locked.

If you sell and only what you want to sell, and NOT what your neighbor
wants, then you do need a survey *Do NOT sell without a survey*.

Don't take any short cuts. Get legal advice. And don't sign what you don't
know what you are signing.
It will come back around and bite you in the butt .......

If your property has survey stakes in place...build a fence so your neighbor
is not mowing your grass, and cutting your trees.

---------------------------------------------
And or keep it real simple.
Just tell the neighbor at this time, you are not willing to sell any more land.

And build a fence to keep him on his side of it.

He keeps cutting your trees, he is only looking to enlarge his section.

Just tell him no.


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## MeatCountry

Attached is an overview of the property to give folks a better idea. The Black area is my land the red is the neighbor, but the neighbor constantly mows and recently decided to cut down trees. 

The plan is to get a fence built I had to wait on perimeter fencing until some things are taken care of, however this year it will be done. 

No I don't plan on signing anything without a proper survey of what he wants. He told me he got his lawyer to sign up the paperwork but all I see is an appraisal report by the county. Nothing like the documents I signed when I bought the place.


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## ladytoysdream

Who sold your neighbor his property . You ?

Do you have a house on the property yourself ?

Is that a road in the picture ?


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## MeatCountry

ladytoysdream said:


> Who sold your neighbor his property . You ?
> 
> Do you have a house on the property yourself ?
> 
> Is that a road in the picture ?


I have no clue, that's why I said I wish I could kick them lol. 

Yes my house is on my property its hidden by the trees. 

Yes its a road.


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## AmericanStand

Is it a legal road ? If it is how is it legitimized ? Easment ? Rightof way ? Sold property ?Or something he just uses ?
Does he have other access ?
This looks pretty weird to me.
Before I did ANYTHING else I’d tell him I wanted a survey. Go talk to a surveyor you like tell them what’s going on. Tell the surveyor you want a 
boundaries and as built survey.
Then tell the other guy that you want it surveyed by the surveyor you chose.
He pays.
After survey. Come back and let’s talk some more.
I can’t understand why we can’t see your house the other guys it’s pretty plain.
Could you indicate where you can find survey markers on the photo?
Be very careful about signing anything to do with property that may not be yours by giving him a piece of property that he wants that isn’t yours it could make you responsible for obtaining it for him


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## IMFoghorn

You should be able to get your neighbors deed at the county courthouse. That would tell you who he bought it from and give you a legal description of his property.

If it was me, I would not be interested in selling him any land. I would want all the trees I could get between me and the neighbor. I might sell him a right of way to access his property if he is a good neighbor. He doesn't seem like a very good neighbor to me, cutting down trees and mowing on your property.

JMO
Doug


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## ladytoysdream

You can go to your county clerk and or where the property taxes are issued to get information.
Is the neighbors property legally filed at the court house ?

If it was your property that your neighbor has a house on....then you should be able to find
out who sold it. If you did not sell it.
That part is not adding up.

When was your neighbors house built ?

Do you live on the property yourself year round ?


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## MeatCountry

Its not just you I was a bit taken back when I bought the property and kind of upset that it was this way but we won't be here forever. I'm not sure there is another house before you get to ours so I assume it was some sort of public road, but not 100% sure.

I agree if the neighbor is serious about the purchase I'll have them get and pay for the survey of what they want. Gotcha will do when I get more information 

Like I said the house is there but its hidden in the trees by the photo. This google photo is old. I wish I had a drone to take pictures of survey stakes.


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## AmericanStand

Something to be aware of :
I’ve noticed on tiny properties like that survey stakes tend to get up and walk around!


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## MeatCountry

ladytoysdream said:


> You can go to your county clerk and or where the property taxes are issued to get information.
> Is the neighbors property legally filed at the court house ?
> 
> If it was your property that your neighbor has a house on....then you should be able to find
> out who sold it. If you did not sell it.
> That part is not adding up.
> 
> When was your neighbors house built ?
> 
> Do you live on the property yourself year round ?


Okay I think there is some confusion. The black outline is my land and my property the red above is the neighbors. The house you see is my neighbors my house is next to it but hidden by the trees, yes I do live on the property. 

I think this photo is causing more confusion. 

I think it was built in the late 2000's.


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## MeatCountry

AmericanStand said:


> Something to be aware of :
> I’ve noticed on tiny properties like that survey stakes tend to get up and walk around!


Yes he did move two of them, the other 2 stakes are still standing in front of his property.


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## painterswife

What part does he want to buy? Maybe you could draw a diagram without the image.

Where I live almost everyone has easements across others to get to their property. Many also see to think that means they can use those easements like they are their own property. They think they can park on them, mow them and cut down trees. Yes, you need to nip that in the bud. They only get to use the easements for access.

Looks like they have more than enough property of their own that they can clear and park their equipment on. Selling off yours just decreases the value of it when you do want to sell


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## ladytoysdream

If your property surrounds him, his is landlocked. Not good for him.

If he moved stakes then probbably it is a legal matter ? Not sure who you contact.

You would order a survey if you were to sell him any more land. And you would pay for survey normally. He can then pay you if he buys the property. That's one way to do it.

How about little X's on your picture where the property stakes belong ?


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## AmericanStand

Why in the world should meatcountry pay for a survey? He doesn’t need one he’s happy as it is now .
Other guys is the supplicant. 
But if you think he has been moving survey stakes around I wouldn’t even consider selling anything to him. That’s pretty much the same thing as him shooting at me in my book and doesn’t engender good feelings and goodwill


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## MeatCountry

When I get home I will take a ground level of houses along with the stakes so you can see and hopefully clear up some confusion. 

I paid for a survey when I bought the property before that I don't think one had been done since 1990 I believe, I have to check the papers. Stakes were placed by the surveyor before I moved in. A few months later 1 was moved by the neighbor to park a mower then the other was removed when he started mowing the first 2 stakes in the front are still there.....for now. I did reach out to the surveyor about the stakes being removed but never heard back I thought it was illegal to do. 

Like I mentioned I don't think the previous owners cared before I bought the property so the neighbor just did what they wanted. I just wish he would leave my trees and bushes alone. It seems like every time he cuts the hole where the trees and bushes were gets bigger.


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## AmericanStand

Yeah I think the two of you are going in opposite directions. He wants to expand his holdings and I don’t blame him and you don’t wanna see him and I don’t blame you .
Right now while he is wanting something from you I would have him pay for a new survey it needs to be sent done since he move the stakes anyway. 
Then after the survey is done photograph everything and tell him to get his stuff back on his property before you sell him the additional piece he wants. 
After that tell him you don’t want to sell .


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## ladytoysdream

The buyer can pay for the survey.
The buyer can't order up a survey. It's not his property.

When we bought our 2 acres, the seller ordered up the survey. We paid for it.
We paid for the title search / abstract.


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## MeatCountry

AmericanStand said:


> Yeah I think the two of you are going in opposite directions. He wants to expand his holdings and I don’t blame him and you don’t wanna see him and I don’t blame you .
> Right now while he is wanting something from you I would have him pay for a new survey it needs to be sent done since he move the stakes anyway.
> Then after the survey is done photograph everything and tell him to get his stuff back on his property before you sell him the additional piece he wants.
> After that tell him you don’t want to sell .


Honestly I don't care if he wants more land to park the tractor and other stuff, but I wish they had did their homework first. :-/ I didn't mention it before but there is a swamp behind us, and to the left of him is an area farmers use for crops. Thinking about now again he's blocked in. 

The kicker in all this is that I think he's getting ready to move. So another thing making me hesitant. 

Already have too much stuff on my mind last thing I want to think about what the neighbors are doing.


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## AmericanStand

ladytoysdream said:


> The buyer can pay for the survey.
> The buyer can't order up a survey. It's not his property.
> 
> When we bought our 2 acres, the seller ordered up the survey. We paid for it.
> We paid for the title search / abstract.


 Sure he can .The buyer will order up a survey of his own place and the proposed changes. 
But if you notice what I suggested was for the OP to discuss the orders of survey with the surveyor first and then allow the buyer to issue the survey order and agree to pay for it. 

Totally legal 
Another key point in what I said is to order a boundary and as built . That way if any problems come up later on he has a good valid document he can take to courtShowing where the in holder is supposed to be and where he actually is


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## TnAndy

AmericanStand said:


> But if you think he has been moving survey stakes around I wouldn’t even consider selling anything to him.



I'd second that opinion. Get it surveyed, sink BIG long steel posts in concrete in the corners, fence it.


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## ladytoysdream

All our corner posts / survey stakes...are protected by a bigger steel post


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## po boy

I would make him pay for a surveyor to replace the stakes he has moved and based on his history, I wouldn't sell him an inch of property. He is the kind of person that will just want/take more of your property. It's your property and he needs to sty off it.
Do a search on Google for property search in your county and u should be able to see how the property is laid out.


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## Wolf mom

First, an easement is a legal right of way if it is deeded and recorded. Your county will have that information and you can get a plat map that will show all boundaries. In some states it is illegal to sell land locked property.

Second, yes, he can order a staked survey of his property and that will give you your boundary. You can also contact your surveyor and ask if he would re-stake your corners. He already has all the information needed so the cost should be a lot less.

Third: There is such a thing as Adverse Possession. If he uses your property for 10 + years, consistently, the property can revert to him....

Trees have monetary value. Do NOT let him cut your trees.......I'd be really upset if someone cut any trees or encroached on my property. And yes, I had 18 acres about 1/2 mile from where I lived. All fenced and checked on often.
You also need to remember, it's your land so if something happens to him while on your land - you have the potential of being liable.
BTW: is any of that equipment you are so graciously letting him put on your land leak oil?

If he is going to sell, why does he need more land? Certainly not for the excuses you gave.

Being the nice guy is ok in some instances - over land you really need to be firm. Since you are not knowledgeable and want to be a nice guy, hire a Real Estate attorney. (Not a general atty - a RE atty)! Let this guy deal through the attorney. Range wars were fought over land boundaries...

Whole thing smells fishy to me....You can have a sit down with him, but you better have your ducks in order - what you are/are not willing to do - and what your bottom line is.

Remember, in real estate, anything verbal doesn't count. It has to be in writing.


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## Fishindude

It's your ground, you run the show not them. Any paperwork or agreement should be prepared by you and your lawyer.
I'd seriously consider getting a survey done, putting a fence on the property line separating you from them, then adding the cost of these items to the land sale price. If they balk at that, keep it.


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## Danaus29

If you feel uneasy and they are already taking over part of your property then back out of the sale. They've already overstepped their boundaries. If they are trying to sell then great for them and you.


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## AmericanStand

Remember he will be a lot more cooperative if he thinks the things are going his way. So get what you want from him before you tell him You don’t want to sell.


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## MeatCountry

Here are the pictures hopefully this clears up some confusion. The first is the frontal view of the property. As you can see my house is surrounded by trees.


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## MeatCountry

This is the neighbors house you can see to the 2 giant stakes out front.


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## MeatCountry

Close up of the stakes where that rock pile is, was where the other long stake was before he moved it. That's how much land I have and how much he's been using it.


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## MeatCountry

Give you an idea of how large the property is.


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## MeatCountry

po boy said:


> I would make him pay for a surveyor to replace the stakes he has moved and based on his history, I wouldn't sell him an inch of property. He is the kind of person that will just want/take more of your property. It's your property and he needs to sty off it.
> Do a search on Google for property search in your county and u should be able to see how the property is laid out.


I still have the paperwork of the survey before I bought the property 2 years ago. I was aware how the property was laid out however he is not. Its just me and I'm not sure how to handle this really don't want a confrontation. 



Wolf mom said:


> First, an easement is a legal right of way if it is deeded and recorded. Your county will have that information and you can get a plat map that will show all boundaries. In some states it is illegal to sell land locked property.
> 
> Second, yes, he can order a staked survey of his property and that will give you your boundary. You can also contact your surveyor and ask if he would re-stake your corners. He already has all the information needed so the cost should be a lot less.
> 
> Third: There is such a thing as Adverse Possession. If he uses your property for 10 + years, consistently, the property can revert to him....
> 
> Trees have monetary value. Do NOT let him cut your trees.......I'd be really upset if someone cut any trees or encroached on my property. And yes, I had 18 acres about 1/2 mile from where I lived. All fenced and checked on often.
> You also need to remember, it's your land so if something happens to him while on your land - you have the potential of being liable.
> BTW: is any of that equipment you are so graciously letting him put on your land leak oil?
> 
> If he is going to sell, why does he need more land? Certainly not for the excuses you gave.
> 
> Being the nice guy is ok in some instances - over land you really need to be firm. Since you are not knowledgeable and want to be a nice guy, hire a Real Estate attorney. (Not a general atty - a RE atty)! Let this guy deal through the attorney. Range wars were fought over land boundaries...
> 
> Whole thing smells fishy to me....You can have a sit down with him, but you better have your ducks in order - what you are/are not willing to do - and what your bottom line is.
> 
> Remember, in real estate, anything verbal doesn't count. It has to be in writing.


Wow that's interesting I didn't know that about landlocks, I can say 100% that's what the neighbor has but the more I read the more it seems like it. 

I'm looking at some cost of fencing now but the way the land is set up I'm not sure how to go about it. Lots of swamp. 

I'm nice because I don't want any trouble.......I bought this land because I like quiet country live and want to raise my livestock. I knew what the land was like but didn't think anything of it because he seemed to stay on his own property. Then recently he started building up his home as you can see in the pictures. When the neighbor added the asphalt road I had contractor trucks parking and tearing up my land. And now the neighbor has contractors that come park and do other things on my property but I can't see much of it due to the trees. That's the stuff I don't like. 

Yeah I need to find out what he wants as far as property and not to sneak things in like he did with the appraisal papers.





Fishindude said:


> It's your ground, you run the show not them. Any paperwork or agreement should be prepared by you and your lawyer.
> I'd seriously consider getting a survey done, putting a fence on the property line separating you from them, then adding the cost of these items to the land sale price. If they balk at that, keep it.


I'll have to post in another area but my land has swamp plus I'm not sure of the cost. I already have the survey from when I bought the property 2 years ago. Its the neighbor that's just not respecting the boundaries.


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## Wolf mom

Sheesh! Such angst. 
Call your appraiser - get the pins replaced that the "neighbor" has moved. Begin there with T-posts and barbed wire. Then POST it with no trespassing signs. Some places need the signs to be legal. Call a fencing company - ask for a bid. They'll let you know how to fence in swampy areas.

Being firm, not nasty is not confrontation. Those folk have already shown you what they are, and can't be trusted. You, too, have shown them that you are easy and they can run over you.


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## ladytoysdream

Stand your ground. Be firm.

Get the survey stakes back in ground that were moved.

Build a cheap fence. T posts and barb wire sound like a plan


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## MeatCountry

Wolf mom said:


> Sheesh! Such angst.
> Call your appraiser - get the pins replaced that the "neighbor" has moved. Begin there with T-posts and barbed wire. Then POST it with no trespassing signs. Some places need the signs to be legal. Call a fencing company - ask for a bid. They'll let you know how to fence in swampy areas.
> 
> Being firm, not nasty is not confrontation. Those folk have already shown you what they are, and can't be trusted. You, too, have shown them that you are easy and they can run over you.


Think it might be too late at this point. Its only me I can't really do anything. Just not sure why I have to pay for a survey again for something they want. 




ladytoysdream said:


> Stand your ground. Be firm.
> 
> Get the survey stakes back in ground that were moved.
> 
> Build a cheap fence. T posts and barb wire sound like a plan


Thank you getting quotes for fencing options  As well as seeing if it would be better to do it myself.


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## AmericanStand

You have a unique opportunity right now to take care of most of these problems without any hassle.
The neighbor will be anxious to please you and do what it takes in order to buy the additional property that he wants.
That additional property needs to be surveyed . At least that’s what you’re going to tell him. If he will agree to pay a surveyor Simply have that surveyor reset the survey markers around the guys house as part of the new survey.
With the new markers set walk the property with the guy and tell him you’re planning on putting up a fence on the boundary. Tell him the fence is going to be put up in 10 days blame it on the contractor if you want.
Be sure any closing date is after that so that by the time closing combs you have him back on his property and the fence up to mark the boundaries.
Then with everything taken care of like it should be ,sell him the property or don’t ,as you wish.


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## anniew

It sounds like you need assertiveness training...not confrontation, but getting done what you want with YOUR property, then make decisions.
If it were my property, I certainly would have made noise when YOUR trees were stolen (taken down) and when the survey stakes were stolen (moved). You seem to have let those things happen without making a peep.
You need to grow a couple!!!! and then, go to the court house and find out all the information you need on both properties, while at the same time discussing the situation with a RE attorney.
You've got a thief and a USER living next to you...not someone you want to deal with, except to make it VERY clear he can't take advantage of you...and I'd never sell to him, unless you are ready to move and sell him everything at the going price.


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## MeatCountry

anniew said:


> It sounds like you need assertiveness training...not confrontation, but getting done what you want with YOUR property, then make decisions.
> If it were my property, I certainly would have made noise when YOUR trees were stolen (taken down) and when the survey stakes were stolen (moved). You seem to have let those things happen without making a peep.
> You need to grow a couple!!!! and then, go to the court house and find out all the information you need on both properties, while at the same time discussing the situation with a RE attorney.
> You've got a thief and a USER living next to you...not someone you want to deal with, except to make it VERY clear he can't take advantage of you...and I'd never sell to him, unless you are ready to move and sell him everything at the going price.


Honestly I do but as a female I don't really know how to deal with this. :-/ They have been doing things on my property for 2 years. Just seems like saying something now seems awkward and especially since I can't see on the other what they are doing unless I drive by. When he was cutting on my property again I really wanted to say something but couldn't after all he'd been doing it before. 

I considered putting signs up he'd probably ignore them.


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## po boy

I think u mentioned your dad, if u can get him to go with u to talk to him.
OR, have an attorney to write a letter that u r rescinding your prior agreement and give him 30 days to remove his stuff and he pay a surveyor to replace the post.


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## ladytoysdream

Keep this as simple as you can. And low cost if you can.
Don't say anymore to your neighbor about selling him any more land.

If you can get your Dad or another family member or a friend to help you,
see if you can get those survey stakes back in the ground. Mark them with T post if
you need cheap metal post. Get a cheap can of spray paint and spray the t post. Bright orange
if need be so it will stick out. And you will know if it has been moved or not.

Sounds like your neighbor built the road ?
If it is on your property, then it's your road, I am thinking 
Or is it a county or state or town road ?

It does look like neighbor's property is landlocked. So some where and it
should be filed with the county, should tell you who gave them
a easement / right of way, to get across your property to their house.
Do they have a legal easement aka right of way,  in writing ?

Is the person you bought your property from, are you able to contact them
and get any more information ?

You don't need to fence your entire property. Start where you are having
the most problems with the neighbor. Cheap t posts might work.
Use baling twine to string from one to the next one. You are just going to
mark your property line right now ( temporary ) . This will let the neighbor
know *you do know where* the property line is. If he asks questions,
you could tell him you need to know how much fencing material,
you are going to need to buy.
You can later do a more permanent fence when time and money let you.
Don't touch the survey stakes in the neighbors front lawn.
Your concern is the back yard where he is mowing your grass and cutting
your trees.

You have to do this now or your neighbor will continue to run you over.

If your neighbor gets stupid, then get a attorney if need be.
I don't think you need to give the neighbor 30 days to move
anything. He is not renting this ground from you. He is just
getting free use of property that is not his.

And moving survey stake is illegal, he may need to be reminded of this.


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## anniew

The old saying, "You can only be imposed upon with your permission," might apply here.


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## StL.Ed

First, you really need to find out you exact property description, including any/all easements you have plus any easements the neighbor has across your property.

If the gravel road in the aerial photograph is not a public road, I suspect you have an easement up to your property line. Further, and this is a guess, I suspect that your neighbor has an easement on the gravel road, and straight across your property towards the left side of their house, where there look to be old tire tracks. (Around here, most easements take the most direct route.) Since the neighbor's main driveway is to the right of their house, they could already be leaving the easement to cross your property to the driveway. (As I said, that is just a guess.)

You haven't said what parts the neighbor wants to buy, but if it crosses the road, how would you get to your house? If they want to extend their property such that you end up with side-by-side rectangles (cutting off the "flag" end of your property) you might lose access to the main part of the gravel road, unless you get an easement across the property you sell to them.

I don't know the what the easement laws are in Virginia, but if you end up landlocked how easy would it be to get an easement of necessity? Would the neighbor have you at their mercy for a low-ball offer on the rest of your property?

The whole thing sounds sketchy, and as the saying goes "if it sounds wrong, it probably is wrong." I would tell the neighbor "thanks; but, no thanks", and then verify, as mentioned earlier, what easements actually exist. Then fence your property in such a way as to allow the neighbor access only to their easement, and simply say you have plans for your land.


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## AmericanStand

This doesn’t have to be a confrontation. The neighbor is wanting something from meat-country 
So it makes it a good time to do some things.
Meet country has convinced this person that they don’t care too much about the property so they won’t be too alarmed when they are told there Hass to be a survey of the property and the proposed addition. 


Something to keep in mind most surveyer’s on setting a corner in places like this ,Drive rebar below the ground level so that it can be found quickly with a metal detector and they will add another post above ground level for a visual indicator the chances are pretty good that the above ground post were moved but not the below ground. 
So re-sending the survey markers it’s simply something the bank said you had to do before you can sell the property and putting a fence along the property line is also something your bank or insurance company told you needed to be done before selling the property. 

Since this neighbor is the sub account wanting to buy property from you they probably will not object and even if they do it really doesn’t make any difference you’re totally in line to build a fence on your own property and to place the post back where they belong


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## Ryss

You have been given some good advice. I agree that there are probably steel pins where the posts were.
The surveyor should charge you a very minimal amount to find them for you.


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## Analogue

MeatCountry said:


> My neighbor of 2 years approached me asking me if I would sell a piece of land to them, it was a small section on their side which I assumed they wanted legal right to set their tractor and other yard equipment on. I told them that was fine.
> 
> Fast forward neighbor approaches me with the paperwork I look it over and now they want another piece of my land not mentioned in our conversation. Plus there is no official land survey as to what the neighbor specifically wants. Then they are asking about purchasing land that is not mine?
> 
> To be honest now I'm having second thoughts about selling. The small land he wants for his tractor I don't care but the other section they want......I'll admit I'm not keen on. Think of the total plot of land in the shape of the american flag. The blue and stars are the neighbors and the blue and white stripes are mine. The neighbors have to drive on my property to get their home on a very small plot. I have rest of over 4 acres.
> 
> Over the past 2 years the neighbor has taken upon themselves to not only mow my plot well beyond the survey stakes but also started cutting back my trees and bushes and nothing has been set yet. I know most folks are going to say talk to them, well the wife is certainly not nice but I will try to catch the guy. I just want to know how to handle this. Honestly they are for the most part quiet but I want to kick the person who sold them this small patch on my property.


As another commenter wrote- NIP IT IN THE BUD. 

Make any excuse- no matter how confusing, illogical or vague you want- but STOP this right away. Even if you have to place blame on a non-existent being, do so. Heck, blame me! A good one to use would be "Oh, neighbour, there is an issue with the survey, turns out this part (point with your finger to some vague area, a casual wave of the hand- if you're worried about being dishonest, you won't be lying!) "does not belong to me, I will have to go over it with the surveyor" every time he badgers you about this land deal, give another excuse such as "awaiting survey" or what not- he'll get the picture eventually. What ever you do- POSTPONE THIS. And do not sign ANY thing- no matter how innocuous it sounds. If you attempt to sell land that is not yours, you could be charged legally with some sort of fraud. I don't like the sound of this at all. The fact you have butterflies in your stomach is a red flag warning for yourself. 

Good luck- and keep us posted!


----------



## Ridgetop

Absolutely right on this advice.

1. We have several people who have bought property behind us and insist that they have the right to cross our property to get to those properties. NOT TRUE.

2.The only people with legal right to access across your property are people that owb ab EASEMENTeighbors who cross our property to accesstheir homes.


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## Ridgetop

STUPID COMPUTER! I WILL TRY AGAIN.
First, a lot of people that encroach on properties do so because they are mistaken in where there boundaries are. It is imperative that you get a survey done to make sure where your corners are. That way you will know exactly where property lines are.

1. We have several people who have bought property behind us and insisted that they have the right to cross our property to get to those properties. NOT TRUE. We had a survey done early on and the easement to their properties was up on a hillside above the road across our property. The real estate agent told them our road was their easement. They had to BUY an easement from us - not the property, just the easement or right to cross.
2. Unless those people have an easement across your property they cannot cross your property.
3. If there is an easement it will be recorded on your title. Read the title and particularly read your title insurance report if you got one Most people have to get one before a purchase. If there are no easements shown, the neighbor has no legal right to cross your property for any reason.
4. Without your permission he cannot cut down or remove trees, mow grass, or weeds. If you sell him an easement, have it in your agreement that he must maintain the easement himself. You do not want to responsible for maintaining the easement to his house.
5. If this person is planning to sell, he may have found out that he has no easement to his home. The real estate people might have told him he cannot sell without a legal access. Sometimes people will buy a piece of property and forget to check that it has a legal easement. That is the buyer's problem, not yours.
6. If he needs a legal easement in order to sell, he may be trying to buy your property in order to provide himself with one. 
7. This will not help you and may adversely affect you. He seems like a shady character and this seems like an underhanded deal on his part. 
8. He does not have an automatic easement just because his house is landlocked. He might have lied to the permit people about having an easement when he built. (This happened with a piece of property behind us - DH went to the permit people, had them pull the house permit and stop him building.) A proscriptive easement or adverse easement is acquired only when the land is illegally used by another in spite of being told by the owner that said use is not allowed - for a specific number of years. If you have allowed him to drive across your property - WITH YOUR PERMISSION - that stops the adverse easement time period from running. 
9. It is possible that the actual easement (if there is one) to this man's property is on the farmland adjacent, not on your land.

You need to go to an attorney specializing in real estate law. You do not need to sell him anything. You DO need to have someone in your corner to fight for you. Once you have an attorney, you can tell him attorney. If you decide to sell an easement, make sure to put it along the side of your property not through the center. Have the easement requirements include a provision that if the buyer does not maintain the easement, mowing paving, etc., the easement reverts to you. Have the attorney set the price to include fees, surveying costs, etc. as well as the value of the easement. If the neighbor's property has no easement, he cannot sell without one The value of the easement is the dollar difference between the value of a house with no easement, thus no access, and the house with access. Then add in all the costs you have undergone to reach the sales pprice of the easement. It should all be included in the price of the easement. NEVER CUT UP YOUR PROPERTY TO SELL IT.

GET A REAL ESTATE ATTORNEY NOW. DO NOT LET THE NEIGHBOR TELL YOU HE HAS AN EASEMENT WITHOUT SEEING IT LEGALLY RECORDED ON YOUR TITLE. DO NOT LET HIM SCARE YOU. SINCE YOU ARE A WOMAN ALONE AD WORRIED ABOUT THIS, RETAIN AN ATTORNEY AND TURN THE ATTORNEY LOOSE ON HIM. YOU MAY BE AFRAID TO SPEND THE MONEY NOW, BUT FROM THE SOUNDS OF IT, THIS NEIGHBOR IS OUT TO CHEAT YOU OUT OF YOUR LAND. SINCE YOU SAY YOU WANT TO SELL EVENTUALLY, YOU DON'T WANT TO FIND OUT THAT YOU HAVE LOST THE VALUE IN YOUR PROPERTY BECAUSE THIS GUY SCAMMED YOU.


----------



## Danaus29

Oh how I wish I could help you. I could give you a lesson or three about being assertive without being a capital B. I'm not as good as Beverly on _The Goldberg's_ but I've been known to pull a few tricks. I would have called the sheriff about the trees and said they were stolen, just to make a report and give the value of live trees, not the lumber. I definitely would have made the contractors move their equipment. 

The past is in the past. They are now destroying your property and it needs to stop IMMEDIATELY! If they decide you are a B then so be it. You are not a doormat. Your trees and plants have a value that you can't put a price on. If them not using your land means they can't use theirs tough cookies. Buck up and speak up. Do it now before they move their relatives into your home.


----------



## Forcast

Is it still true that people can ease over on your land over 7 years and if in that time you dont stop them they can claim the land as theirs?


----------



## Ridgetop

Depends on the laws in your state or county. You need to check them out. Here in So California it is only if you have tried to stop them or put them on notice that they are trespassing and they continue to do so, and then you fail to stop them. If you are worried, send a registered letter stating that it is your property but that you are giving them limited permission to use it for whatever. Then they cannot claim proscriptive easement rights. That is what we did both privately and through an attorney. Later when the person tried to claim proscriptive rights to an easement we produced the letter and delivery receipt and they had to *pay* us for an easement since the written limited use permission voided the time limit on proscriptive easement. *ALSO*, no proscriptive easement can be set up until you know that there is encroachment on the property. IOW any proscriptive easement against us by others did not start until we had surveyed our new property and discovered that others were encroaching. At that point we immediately sent out the written limited use permission letters, Return Receipt Requested. The surveys and attorneys fees we have paid have been more than paid back by finding out our property borders, learning our rights, and not being pushed around by builders and neighbors who tried to grab our land. 

Since the encroachment on MeatCountry's land has been within the past 2 years, the proscriptive easement time has not run. Since they were doing it with her permission, hopefully she mentioned it was her land and her trees, that would stop the encroachment. MeatCountry needs to immediately send a letter pointing out the property lines, and either give her neighbors limited permission to use her property, or tell them to cease and desist. I think this should be handled by an attorney since MeatCountry does not want to take a chance on any interaction with them. Once they are notified she has retained counsel (by the attorney) they will have to approach her through the attorney only. This will give her some protection. It sounds as though they don't have a legal easement. Do they actually own that piece of property? She needs an attorney.


----------



## MeatCountry

First off thanks for all the responses everyone I will try to answer everyone's questions and clear up some of the confusion. I did some research and it seems that Virginia doesn't have a landlocked law so it can be sold? Not 100% sure but that's what I could gather. 

The driveway is very long the main tire tracks you see in the pictures are for my home, but the neighbors use the driveway because its easy access but again I don't know the easement laws here. Sometimes he maintains the driveway but I'm not sure what deal goes on there with the other neighbors. Honestly the more I dig into this stuff the more I see there's no structure and people just did what they wanted. 

I'm trying to put off with an attorney at the moment but I have to see how serious my neighbor is about purchasing the land. I strongly feel the neighbor is going to sell their home very soon given the extreme remodel of their home within the past few months. I don't want to just sell my land if he's going to sell it to someone else.


----------



## MeatCountry

po boy said:


> I think u mentioned your dad, if u can get him to go with u to talk to him.
> OR, have an attorney to write a letter that u r rescinding your prior agreement and give him 30 days to remove his stuff and he pay a surveyor to replace the post.


He's offered because he was pissed when he found about what they were doing on my property. I told him to wait until I found out more information regarding the neighbor wanting to buy. 



ladytoysdream said:


> Keep this as simple as you can. And low cost if you can.
> Don't say anymore to your neighbor about selling him any more land.
> 
> If you can get your Dad or another family member or a friend to help you,
> see if you can get those survey stakes back in the ground. Mark them with T post if
> you need cheap metal post. Get a cheap can of spray paint and spray the t post. Bright orange
> if need be so it will stick out. And you will know if it has been moved or not.
> 
> Sounds like your neighbor built the road ?
> If it is on your property, then it's your road, I am thinking
> Or is it a county or state or town road ?
> 
> It does look like neighbor's property is landlocked. So some where and it
> should be filed with the county, should tell you who gave them
> a easement / right of way, to get across your property to their house.
> Do they have a legal easement aka right of way, in writing ?
> 
> Is the person you bought your property from, are you able to contact them
> and get any more information ?
> 
> You don't need to fence your entire property. Start where you are having
> the most problems with the neighbor. Cheap t posts might work.
> Use baling twine to string from one to the next one. You are just going to
> mark your property line right now ( temporary ) . This will let the neighbor
> know *you do know where* the property line is. If he asks questions,
> you could tell him you need to know how much fencing material,
> you are going to need to buy.
> You can later do a more permanent fence when time and money let you.
> Don't touch the survey stakes in the neighbors front lawn.
> Your concern is the back yard where he is mowing your grass and cutting
> your trees.
> 
> You have to do this now or your neighbor will continue to run you over.
> 
> If your neighbor gets stupid, then get a attorney if need be.
> I don't think you need to give the neighbor 30 days to move
> anything. He is not renting this ground from you. He is just
> getting free use of property that is not his.
> 
> And moving survey stake is illegal, he may need to be reminded of this.


Thanks I haven't said much else regarding the land purchase. My dad said he would help me if I need it I just told him to wait until I found out more information. 

I'm not sure what the neighbor did with 2 survey sticks on the side of the property. However far the neighbor hasn't touched the 2 stakes in the front.

Here is an over view on the entire layout. You can see the main road and then the long driveway up until my house ( hidden in trees) 

About easement access I will have to do homework on it as I don't know for sure. I'm assuming whoever he bought the land from. 

Right now just getting quotes ( only one so far that's called me back) but the layout is our biggest issue. The property cuts in front of the neighbor's house and then down towards the road. Hopefully the fencing company can help with this.

I bought some signs and will place them by the area he mows hopefully he gets the picture. 

I'm not too sure when the neighbor removed the stakes the first time I asked my realtor about and they didn't know. So I called the survey company and they stated they would get back to me but never did. :-/


----------



## MeatCountry

Analogue said:


> As another commenter wrote- NIP IT IN THE BUD.
> 
> Make any excuse- no matter how confusing, illogical or vague you want- but STOP this right away. Even if you have to place blame on a non-existent being, do so. Heck, blame me! A good one to use would be "Oh, neighbour, there is an issue with the survey, turns out this part (point with your finger to some vague area, a casual wave of the hand- if you're worried about being dishonest, you won't be lying!) "does not belong to me, I will have to go over it with the surveyor" every time he badgers you about this land deal, give another excuse such as "awaiting survey" or what not- he'll get the picture eventually. What ever you do- POSTPONE THIS. And do not sign ANY thing- no matter how innocuous it sounds. If you attempt to sell land that is not yours, you could be charged legally with some sort of fraud. I don't like the sound of this at all. The fact you have butterflies in your stomach is a red flag warning for yourself.
> 
> Good luck- and keep us posted!


I like this idea and will keep that in mind the next time he approaches me about it.  No no not signing anything nothing will be done until I find out more. 



Danaus29 said:


> Oh how I wish I could help you. I could give you a lesson or three about being assertive without being a capital B. I'm not as good as Beverly on _The Goldberg's_ but I've been known to pull a few tricks. I would have called the sheriff about the trees and said they were stolen, just to make a report and give the value of live trees, not the lumber. I definitely would have made the contractors move their equipment.
> 
> The past is in the past. They are now destroying your property and it needs to stop IMMEDIATELY! If they decide you are a B then so be it. You are not a doormat. Your trees and plants have a value that you can't put a price on. If them not using your land means they can't use theirs tough cookies. Buck up and speak up. Do it now before they move their relatives into your home.


I am more than open to lessons trust me my dad says the same thing :-/ 

Feel a strong suspicion that they are getting ready to sell their home, they have done a tremendous amount of remodeling on their home within the past few months. 



Ridgetop said:


> Depends on the laws in your state or county. You need to check them out. Here in So California it is only if you have tried to stop them or put them on notice that they are trespassing and they continue to do so, and then you fail to stop them. If you are worried, send a registered letter stating that it is your property but that you are giving them limited permission to use it for whatever. Then they cannot claim proscriptive easement rights. That is what we did both privately and through an attorney. Later when the person tried to claim proscriptive rights to an easement we produced the letter and delivery receipt and they had to *pay* us for an easement since the written limited use permission voided the time limit on proscriptive easement. *ALSO*, no proscriptive easement can be set up until you know that there is encroachment on the property. IOW any proscriptive easement against us by others did not start until we had surveyed our new property and discovered that others were encroaching. At that point we immediately sent out the written limited use permission letters, Return Receipt Requested. The surveys and attorneys fees we have paid have been more than paid back by finding out our property borders, learning our rights, and not being pushed around by builders and neighbors who tried to grab our land.
> 
> Since the encroachment on MeatCountry's land has been within the past 2 years, the proscriptive easement time has not run. Since they were doing it with her permission, hopefully she mentioned it was her land and her trees, that would stop the encroachment. MeatCountry needs to immediately send a letter pointing out the property lines, and either give her neighbors limited permission to use her property, or tell them to cease and desist. I think this should be handled by an attorney since MeatCountry does not want to take a chance on any interaction with them. Once they are notified she has retained counsel (by the attorney) they will have to approach her through the attorney only. This will give her some protection. It sounds as though they don't have a legal easement. Do they actually own that piece of property? She needs an attorney.


About the easement I'm straight guilty of ignorance I have no clue how things were before I bought the place. The land situtation I'm sure what was done or said or if the previous people even cared. A year after I moved was when he started coming well beyond his property to cut my bushes and cutting the grass. Along with the remodeling of the home. Since then each time he mows he comes deeper and deeper onto my property which I do not like. I want to put a gate there so bad.


----------



## MeatCountry

Ridgetop said:


> STUPID COMPUTER! I WILL TRY AGAIN.
> First, a lot of people that encroach on properties do so because they are mistaken in where there boundaries are. It is imperative that you get a survey done to make sure where your corners are. That way you will know exactly where property lines are.
> 
> 1. We have several people who have bought property behind us and insisted that they have the right to cross our property to get to those properties. NOT TRUE. We had a survey done early on and the easement to their properties was up on a hillside above the road across our property. The real estate agent told them our road was their easement. They had to BUY an easement from us - not the property, just the easement or right to cross.
> 2. Unless those people have an easement across your property they cannot cross your property.
> 3. If there is an easement it will be recorded on your title. Read the title and particularly read your title insurance report if you got one Most people have to get one before a purchase. If there are no easements shown, the neighbor has no legal right to cross your property for any reason.
> 4. Without your permission he cannot cut down or remove trees, mow grass, or weeds. If you sell him an easement, have it in your agreement that he must maintain the easement himself. You do not want to responsible for maintaining the easement to his house.
> 5. If this person is planning to sell, he may have found out that he has no easement to his home. The real estate people might have told him he cannot sell without a legal access. Sometimes people will buy a piece of property and forget to check that it has a legal easement. That is the buyer's problem, not yours.
> 6. If he needs a legal easement in order to sell, he may be trying to buy your property in order to provide himself with one.
> 7. This will not help you and may adversely affect you. He seems like a shady character and this seems like an underhanded deal on his part.
> 8. He does not have an automatic easement just because his house is landlocked. He might have lied to the permit people about having an easement when he built. (This happened with a piece of property behind us - DH went to the permit people, had them pull the house permit and stop him building.) A proscriptive easement or adverse easement is acquired only when the land is illegally used by another in spite of being told by the owner that said use is not allowed - for a specific number of years. If you have allowed him to drive across your property - WITH YOUR PERMISSION - that stops the adverse easement time period from running.
> 9. It is possible that the actual easement (if there is one) to this man's property is on the farmland adjacent, not on your land.
> 
> You need to go to an attorney specializing in real estate law. You do not need to sell him anything. You DO need to have someone in your corner to fight for you. Once you have an attorney, you can tell him attorney. If you decide to sell an easement, make sure to put it along the side of your property not through the center. Have the easement requirements include a provision that if the buyer does not maintain the easement, mowing paving, etc., the easement reverts to you. Have the attorney set the price to include fees, surveying costs, etc. as well as the value of the easement. If the neighbor's property has no easement, he cannot sell without one The value of the easement is the dollar difference between the value of a house with no easement, thus no access, and the house with access. Then add in all the costs you have undergone to reach the sales pprice of the easement. It should all be included in the price of the easement. NEVER CUT UP YOUR PROPERTY TO SELL IT.
> 
> GET A REAL ESTATE ATTORNEY NOW. DO NOT LET THE NEIGHBOR TELL YOU HE HAS AN EASEMENT WITHOUT SEEING IT LEGALLY RECORDED ON YOUR TITLE. DO NOT LET HIM SCARE YOU. SINCE YOU ARE A WOMAN ALONE AD WORRIED ABOUT THIS, RETAIN AN ATTORNEY AND TURN THE ATTORNEY LOOSE ON HIM. YOU MAY BE AFRAID TO SPEND THE MONEY NOW, BUT FROM THE SOUNDS OF IT, THIS NEIGHBOR IS OUT TO CHEAT YOU OUT OF YOUR LAND. SINCE YOU SAY YOU WANT TO SELL EVENTUALLY, YOU DON'T WANT TO FIND OUT THAT YOU HAVE LOST THE VALUE IN YOUR PROPERTY BECAUSE THIS GUY SCAMMED YOU.


Thank you reading more and more of your responses it seems that I should not put off contacting an attorney yet, I should at least contact them to have an idea of what is going on regarding the property easement. 

Initially he only wanted to buy more land on the side of his home, which I again I was find with, but finding out he wanted the front too in the paperwork without discussing anything was not cool. It was only the appraisal but still I wish he would have discussed that also rather than just putting it in the appraisal.


----------



## ladytoysdream

Yes on you getting attorney asap. Get with one who knows real estate. Not a general type lawyer.

It should be on your survey where those 2 stakes need to be replaced. It should be marked.
If you can't figure it out, then...
Call the survey company daily if need be and be a thorn in their side till they help you with
the location for the stakes.
----------------------------------------------------

We are working on getting 2 problems straightened out for hubby's Dad because he tried to sell
his house last fall, and 2 real shysters almost got the best of him. Finally got Dad a new
lawyer who knows real estate and Dad fired his old lawyer. Problem is not resolved yet but at
least we are not pulling out our hair anymore. I have done a lot of research
trying to get this matter fixed. Getting a better lawyer sure speeded up things.


----------



## GTX63

So much advise there isn't any point in my parroting but I can share a few stories.

In my 20s I bought a house on 3 acres. We were young and new to rural living. I put up a shed, a dog pen, bought some critters, all within a month or two of moving in, and all on our property. However, there was an easement along the side of our property that led to a 10 acre property and house behind us. 
The older couple was very friendly; they let our daughter ride their horse and always waved and would stop to chat from time to time.
The lady came by one day and just mentioned in an off handed way that they would be running fence along our side of the easement soon, and all the way up to the main road. She used a couple of odd reasons that really didn't make sense, but I didn't question it, smiled, said "ok" and moved on to other topics.
Looking back, I think it was obvious they were simply trying to yes "nip things in the bud" and prevent any future issues.
They saw how quickly I was putting up structures, and, they may have had a problem with the previous owners, I don't know.

If I had built on the easement, and they approached me, I would have been embarrassed, apologized and removed my stuff; doesn't sound like your neighbors are that type.

Cliff notes- there are ways to be non confrontational yet absolute and firm, and yes, at this point I would have your dad get involved, at least as a sidekick.


----------



## MeatCountry

GTX63 said:


> So much advise there isn't any point in my parroting but I can share a few stories.
> 
> In my 20s I bought a house on 3 acres. We were young and new to rural living. I put up a shed, a dog pen, bought some critters, all within a month or two of moving in, and all on our property. However, there was an easement along the side of our property that led to a 10 acre property and house behind us.
> The older couple was very friendly; they let our daughter ride their horse and always waved and would stop to chat from time to time.
> The lady came by one day and just mentioned in an off handed way that they would be running fence along our side of the easement soon, and all the way up to the main road. She used a couple of odd reasons that really didn't make sense, but I didn't question it, smiled, said "ok" and moved on to other topics.
> Looking back, I think it was obvious they were simply trying to yes "nip things in the bud" and prevent any future issues.
> They saw how quickly I was putting up structures, and, they may have had a problem with the previous owners, I don't know.
> 
> If I had built on the easement, and they approached me, I would have been embarrassed, apologized and removed my stuff; doesn't sound like your neighbors are that type.
> 
> Cliff notes- there are ways to be non confrontational yet absolute and firm, and yes, at this point I would have your dad get involved, at least as a sidekick.


I like this idea and since there will be a fence makes it even easier now I just need to come with odd reasons but I will figure out more once I speak with the lawyer.


----------



## GTX63

I have a neighbor "Ron" that moved here from Mass 3 years ago.
The old timer "Dave", next to him pulled out Ron's fencing (leaving the wood posts) on their side between the closing and when they arrived.
Ron, saw it was gone and having two horses and a cow, had no secure pasture. He went and knocked on Dave's door.

Ron- "Good morning. I'm Ron, your new neighbor. I noticed my fencing between us is gone. Do you know what might have happened to it?"
Dave-"Nope. That's the way it has always been."

Now Ron, ex military, special forces and later law enforcement, is no wilted lilly, but he knows how to be tactful.

Ron-"Eh, might you have seen strangers? I've got pictures showing the fencing in place."
Dave- "Nope. There has never been any fencing over there. But I told you that already.
That area is my land, by the way, and it is posted."

Ron shared some small talk, shook hands and went back home. He called the sheriff only for a police report, however insisted that the LEO make contact with Dave so he knew he was serious and there was an "investigation".
He then had the surveyor come back out and restake the ground. Pink plastic pens were spaced every 20" along the fence row.
Dave came out the next time he saw Ron, in a fit. He accused Ron of encroaching on his ground. Ron handed him a copy of the survey. Dave then demanded all those plastic clips be removed. "My cows will eat them and be poisoned," Dave said.
Ron- "That is my property. If they stay on your property they won't get at them. But the survey shows my land extended 6' farther than these fence posts, so I'll either have to erect new fence here... or replace the old fence...there"
That is the short version.
Dave, in a "neighborly" gesture, found the old fencing, claiming it was some 2nd hand stuff off an old farm nearby, and helped Ron put it back up.
They are both alpha males, somewhat aggressive who can be inviting to confrontation at times, but Ron knew how to play his hand without going too far. Today they have a mutual respect for eachother and haven't any further issues.

Ron handled it quickly; didn't allow things to simmer or allow one misunderstanding to create more misunderstandings.


----------



## GTX63

MeatCountry said:


> I like this idea and since there will be a fence makes it even easier now I just need to come with odd reasons but I will figure out more once I speak with the lawyer.


We had an odd sort who owned the 80 acres behind us years ago. "Eric".
Not a bad fellow, just a loner who used the property on weekends and summers.
He didn't fool around. He didn't smile and nod and just take bs. He put up game cameras. 

The 60 year old guy across the road who liked to help himself to Eric's mushrooms every spring; he got a letter from Eric's attorney.
So did his son, who liked to go over and fish his 10 acre pond.
So did the farmer a mile down, who used to hunt it with his son.
So did my next door neighbor, who's grandkids took their atvs on the trails.
It was a cease and desist order, sent to each person by name, certified mail, with photos of them encroaching.
The township cut down a tree that straddled his property line. He sued the township and won.
They graveled his drive for 10 years every spring.

He might sound a bit like a jerk, but his method worked. He offended the old timers who thought they could do as they pleased, but the word spread and it was no longer "assumed" his property was public for everyone.


----------



## MeatCountry

GTX63 said:


> We had an odd sort who owned the 80 acres behind us years ago. "Eric".
> Not a bad fellow, just a loner who used the property on weekends and summers.
> He didn't fool around. He didn't smile and nod and just take bs. He put up game cameras.
> 
> The 60 year old guy across the road who liked to help himself to Eric's mushrooms every spring; he got a letter from Eric's attorney.
> So did his son, who liked to go over and fish his 10 acre pond.
> So did the farmer a mile down, who used to hunt it with his son.
> So did my next door neighbor, who's grandkids took their atvs on the trails.
> It was a cease and desist order, sent to each person by name, certified mail, with photos of them encroaching.
> The township cut down a tree that straddled his property line. He sued the township and won.
> They graveled his drive for 10 years every spring.
> 
> He might sound a bit like a jerk, but his method worked. He offended the old timers who thought they could do as they pleased, but the word spread and it was no longer "assumed" his property was public for everyone.


Not at all. I certainly like the photo idea I have plenty. I'd love to get my trees replanted so I could get my privacy back. 

I'm at work at the moment so I have to wait until I can get home and get the paperwork together. That way it will be easier to go over everything with the lawyer.


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## Danaus29

No more talk of waiting to find out what they want to buy, please. The land must now become your property which you are not considering selling. It sounds like what they are doing is taking over and assuming the sale is a done deal. You need to put some sort of barrier along the line, sooner rather than later. This weekend if possible. Even if you put in t-posts every 8 feet or so you need to mark the line NOW. Then take pictures of the posts. Take pictures of the tree and shrub stumps. Send a letter to the neighbors stating that your homeowners insurance agent has requested that the neighbors stay off the property since their "maintenance" constitutes an insurance liability. (which is true, btw. If they get injured on your property they can hold you liable even if they created the hazard.) Inform them in the letter that the insurance agent has also required that any future encroachment must be reported to the local police department. Also state that if they wish to continue to use the property they must sign a rental lease and pay you, oh say $800 a month or whatever unreasonable fee you wish to charge. Also if they wish to rent the property they must provide liability insurance on the property and provide you a copy of the policy.

Run this by your lawyer too. If they are willing you could give the trespassers your lawyers name and info in the letter as the person the rental agreement must go through. In Ohio most renters must submit to a background check which they are required to pay for. Maybe you could stick them with that fee too.


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## Ridgetop

I am so glad toher you are getting a survey and attorney. 

Like I said before these people are up to something. If they are planning on selling it sounds like they are going to give the impression (if not flat out lie) that part of your property s theirs. They have removed your survey stakes and extended their yard space onto your land and any buyer will probably assume that the cleared area on _your _land where they have put their lawn chair seating area, belongs to the neighbors property. The real estate agent will just wave his hand vaguely and say the property line is "over there somewhere". A buyer will not think to check for survey stakes since they will assume that if it is your property you will have fenced these people from encroaching. When the new buyer moves in you will have a whole new problem as the buyer insist that that is his property not yours! At that point you will have to get an entirely new survey, and retain an attorney to deal with that problem. The seller will be long gone with their cash.

I also think the offer to purchase "a small portion" of your property is an angle to procure an access to their property. If they have paved the driveway over your property, that paving is now your personal property since it is on your land. If they have no legal easement or access to their house, you can fence them off from their house until they buy an easement access from you. 

Another reason I think these people are up to something fishy is that they offered a specific price with you for a specific small portion of property, then in the sale contract enlarged the amount of property they were going to purchase but did not raise the amount of money they were paying. That is a sneaky way to buy your property for nothing and cheat you out of your property. 

Once you have contacted your attorney and he is handling this, when the sale sign goes up on the neighbor's property you need to notify the sales agent in writing that the neighbor does not have an easement, and that he has encroached on your property. I am not sure about Virginia real estate law but in most states once the selling agent knows these facts they are usually required to divulge them to the buyers or they can be held liable for fraud.

Friends of our bought an acre piece of property with the house built on one side. They liked this layout and specifically bought the property planning to put a large arena and barns on the empty space. After the sale was concluded and they were putting up the corrals and arena, they were sued by another neighbor to the rear of them. The vacant half acre had a 40' wide road easement on it that the sellers new abut before selling the property. The buyers could not put up their barn and arena or park their large stock trailer on that portion of the property. The lawsuit stretched into several years. This was 20 years ago and eventually although they got some of their money back from the sellers, they still couldn't build their barn and arena. The vacant half acre or so was the reason for them buying the house! 

Always get on property disputes immediately! The longer you wait, the more the problems build up, and the more money it costs to fix.


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## GTX63

Yep, as Ridgetop mentioned, once it goes up for sale, notify the realtor.
I know of a couple that lived on 5 acres with a shared pond. 3/4 of the pond was on their land, the remainder, mostly bank, was on the neighbor's property.
The neighbor went to sell, didn't mention anything about the pond to the selling agent. The agent, either thru incompetence or willful ignorance, never confirmed ownership, maintenance, responsibility etc, and the couple never approached her.
The new owners came in, promptly installed pumps and fountains, benches and a floating dock, and were in the process of building a gazebo when the couple came back from a trip.
This made for a very awkward and uncomfortable meet and greet.
As far as I know the relationship with their neighbors is ok after 5 years but while both had reasonable expectations, it could have gone really wrong quickly.


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## Analogue

GTX63 said:


> We had an odd sort who owned the 80 acres behind us years ago. "Eric".
> Not a bad fellow, just a loner who used the property on weekends and summers.
> He didn't fool around. He didn't smile and nod and just take bs. He put up game cameras.
> 
> The 60 year old guy across the road who liked to help himself to Eric's mushrooms every spring; he got a letter from Eric's attorney.
> So did his son, who liked to go over and fish his 10 acre pond.
> So did the farmer a mile down, who used to hunt it with his son.
> So did my next door neighbor, who's grandkids took their atvs on the trails.
> It was a cease and desist order, sent to each person by name, certified mail, with photos of them encroaching.
> The township cut down a tree that straddled his property line. He sued the township and won.
> They graveled his drive for 10 years every spring.
> 
> He might sound a bit like a jerk, but his method worked. He offended the old timers who thought they could do as they pleased, but the word spread and it was no longer "assumed" his property was public for everyone.


Good for "Eric"! Give someone an inch they take a mile. No one has the right to encroach, trespass, pick berries or mushrooms or hunt or anything on someone's private property, whether they visit the property once every decade, once an hour or never. Outrageous, the advantage some people will take.


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## Ridgetop

People think that it is just a one time thing, or they don't want to have trouble with a neighbor, or whatever, so they allow neighbors to encroach "just a little". The little bit you allow now as a favor, becomes a big problem later down the road when people demand it as a right that you owe them. You can't play around with property rights, and you can't let others walk over you with respect to your property. We have seen builders and developers try to take advantage of neighbors who did not want to stand firm and fight for their rights. You have to know your property boundaries, and enforce them with fences and legal action if necessary. Once people know that you understand your boundaries and rights, they usually back off and are more agreeable. Let them know you don't know, or are afraid to enforce your property boundaries, they will go for your throat and you take a chance on losing your property in multiple little ways. Here in southern California we have laws requiring horses to be licensed like dogs. Horsekeeping areas were being rezoned out of existence without the owners' knowledge using the excuse that there were no more horses being kept in the neighborhoods. This in spite of the fact that you could drive down the street and see horses in corrals in yards everywhere! It turned out that people were unaware of the licensing requirement. Not enough horse licenses in the neighborhood and you found your property rezoned - no horsekeeping allowed. Developers buying large lots and getting rezoned for subdivisions. Large properties lost value without the horsekeeping. Also, elderly neighbors whose kids had grown and left no longer had horses and people would buy the property and build over close to the property line. Once they had done that, the original owner could not put horses back on the property since there was a distance requirement to keep horses away from the neighbor's house. Some properties could no longer be sold as horsekeeping lots since neighbors had extended their houses up to the lines on either side. This could have been avoided if the owners had licensed horses on their property even though there were no actual equines. Our neighborhood has a strong Property Owners Association keeping an eye on builders, and developers trying to come in! Once we realized the problem, our POA had a big horse licensing drive in our area for everyone to license at least one horse on their property. We are down to our last horse, but have continued to pay $35.00 per year for 5 horses in order to show that we keep horses on our property. With horses licensed on our acreage, builders can't build within 150' of the horsekeeping areas. Needless to say we have empty corrals located all over our property. 

Property issues and encroaching neighbors are problems not to fool around with.


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## MeatCountry

I agree with everyone here I realize my mistake. :-/ I should have said something initially, but what's done is done and I will do what I can to prevent future issues. The fence builder comes this week for an estimate. I also bought and placed some "no trespassing" signs at the start of my property. 

I was unable to get in contact with my lawyer on Friday so I have to contact them again tomorrow. 

My neighbor approached me today to give me a check? I told them nothing was done but they insisted the appraisal was something. I told them no and that I was in contact with my lawyer to do this properly. Then they asked me when I got home from work? I'm in no rush to do this but them constantly contacting me regarding the status is getting out of hand.


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## ladytoysdream

Tell your neighbor, you are talking with a lawyer before you do anything else.
Just keep telling neighbor NO

Your neighbor is being pushy because they are up to something. And it is NOT in your best interest.

Do NOT take a check from him and do NOT sign anything with the neighbor.

Tell neighbor his questions about the land, need to go through the lawyer now.


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## IMFoghorn

Your neighbor wanting to get this done quickly is another sign that something may be amiss. I would give him my lawyer's information and tell him to contact my lawyer with any further questions.

JMO 
Doug


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## MeatCountry

ladytoysdream said:


> Tell your neighbor, you are talking with a lawyer before you do anything else.
> Just keep telling neighbor NO
> 
> Your neighbor is being pushy because they are up to something. And it is NOT in your best interest.
> 
> Do NOT take a check from him and do NOT sign anything with the neighbor.
> 
> Tell neighbor his questions about the land, need to go through the lawyer now.


No worries here I am not and I told them I had to get in touch with my lawyer.

Not going lie my anxiety has been spiking over the constant inquiry and why. I keep to myself but this does have me wondering now.



IMFoghorn said:


> Your neighbor wanting to get this done quickly is another sign that something may be amiss. I would give him my lawyer's information and tell him to contact my lawyer with any further questions.
> 
> JMO
> Doug


I just may do that after I get my lawyer up to speed on the situation.


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## GTX63

So you might feel a little guilty because maybe you think you led the neighbor on, or you didn't handle it the way you wanted and you are thinking of everything you should have said instead of what you said, and now, because you blame yourself, you feel obligated.
We all have been there. "Krap! What have I done and what am I gonna do?"
That's when 3rd parties come in. Whether pops or Lawyer Louie, if you just don't think you can properly handle the discussion in person, let them intervene. You can have your attorney find all sorts of reasons why the sale cannot happen as is. Dad can be there to put out his two cents and deal with the guy. It is called triangulation. It is your intent but someone else becomes the bad guy.
Maybe your dad wanted the land for something down the road and he is just now telling you.
Maybe there is some vagueness about the easement, assessment, etc that may need more time to clarify, drag out and wear the buyer down.
It is always best to control the conversation and resolve it quickly; these are just a few options after the fact.


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## MeatCountry

Thank you that's definitely how I feel at the moment. I will feel better when this thing blows over, but I still want to kick the person who sold the neighbor that landlocked parcel. 

Yeap I agree certified letters and lawyers from now on.


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## Danaus29

You may have made a mistake at the onset but you have time to correct that mistake. Good for you standing up for yourself like that. Just keep it up and do not back down no matter how much the neighbor pushes. The more they push the more you need to push back. Trust me, it does get easier the more you do it.


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## empofuniv

Your neighbor asking when you get home from work made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Pls be very careful and aware for your own personal safety.


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## AmericanStand

Everybody here seems to want to get really confrontational when there’s no need to. 
Let the neighbors desires for your property lead him into doing the things you want done first then when the stuff you want done is finished telling me that you don’t wanna sell no muss no fuss


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## Danaus29

Maybe she can get the neighbors to replace those trees she didn't want removed. Yep, that'll happen.


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## AmericanStand

Lol that will be delicate 
She’s going to need to accept the check for them at the closing just before she declines to sell the property


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## AmericanStand

Google maps has a timeline feature a photo of the missing trees can be found there.


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## [email protected]

I have read only the OP.. 
I would not sell any of 4 acres.. I had nine acres and sold one to the neighbor. 
I am not one to squabble about lot lines. 
the old neighbor , long since died, and wife sold their house . It turned out that his small tool shed was partly on my land. I signed a release for the new neighbors so they wouldn't have to move it. but they cannot claim squatters right, either..
the original neighbor kept trying to buy more land from me.. I flat out refused. 
as it is, I might be able to split my acreage in half and sell a building lot.. I probably will never do that, though
If you ever decide to sell your place, It will sell much easier with more land.. don't put yourself into a pinch.
I don't mind the neighbor mowing the grass around the pine trees on the edge of my land. but I would raise holy h3ll if he cut any trees..
selling land to them will not improve his wife's disposition toward you.
......jiminwisc.....


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## ladytoysdream

AmericanStand said:


> Lol that will be delicate
> She’s going to need to accept the check for them at the closing just before she declines to sell the property


*Don't do this. That would be playing a bad game.* Then buyer could come back at you for refusing to sell to them.
----------------------------------------------------------

Hubby's Dad stopped his house closing date with only 24 hours left. He cancelled the sale. Buyer let it be known
he could sue and had up to 6 years to do so, for refusing to sell him the house.
Dad's new lawyer got a letter sent out letting them know the sale was not going to happen. The old
lawyer forgot to sign his own signature to make the contract a legal binding agreement. So far ,
it looks like Dad got out of the deal. But we are still waiting to hear from new lawyer exactly what
the answer was to his letter sent to buyer's lawyer, to cease and desist.


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## AmericanStand

If you have a contract to sell the house of one thing if the other guy just makes it all up in his head that’s his problem


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## Ridgetop

So far MeatCountry has not signed anything, nor has she agreed to sell any specific piece of property so there is no contract. There might be some sort of verbal agreement that she might sell some part of her property, but without a legal description, it is not enforceable. They have not even signed any agreement and she has tld the neighbor that she needs to consult her lawyer.

_*Why would the neighbor try to give MC a check?*_ *Because if MC accepts the check, the neighbor can claim that the deal was accepted, and when MC physically accepted the check in payment it was a completed property contract sale.* That is why when buying property all down payments and funds are usually paid through a title company - a 3rd person holding company, or a lawyer for safety. Nothing is recorded until all terms of the contract have been met. 

Since he supposedly just wants a *portion *of the property, the property has to be resurveyed to identify the portion he wants to buy. That small portion the neighbor is buying needs to be split off from the original piece and then correctly identified by the surveyor. It has to be surveyed, and that portion identified by a new legal property description in order to convey it to the neighbor. It also has to be identified in the tax records by its new description and shown that it is no longer attached to MC's property otherwise MC will continue paying taxes on a piece of property MC no longer owns. Otherwise, MC runs the risk of having *all MC's property convey to the neighbor *if the property description is not corrected. Sometimes this lot split costs a lot of money to do and if he can get MC to accept a check for what he will claim is full payment for the property MC will have to pay all the fees to split the property. The fees to split the property might be much higher than the actual price the neighbor is trying to pay for the property. *OR* the legal description that the neighbor puts into the sales contract may convey more property than was agreed on if the legal description is not correct. Which is what it sounds like he is trying to do. This really sounds like this neighbor is in a big hurry to grab some of MC's property. Alarm bells should be going off all over the place!!! 

As an example of what a lot split would cost - We own 2 pieces side by side. We wanted to move our property line over to move 50-100' more of the larger 5 acre piece onto the smaller 1.6 acre piece. To do it we would have had to do a property split, then legally add that slice of property to our 1.6 acre property. Just the property split of 100 feet off the 5 acre piece would have cost almost $30,000 in permits, petitions for lot split, EIRs, etc! Depending on your state and county the cost can be a few thousand dollars up to many thousand dollars. Another reason not to agree to sell* any* of your property without an attorney.

It sounds like this guy is getting desperate for some reason. Be very careful, and don't even talk to him without a witness of your own with you. You don't want him to claim that you agreed to something you did not agree to.


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## IMFoghorn

OP, this keeps going through my mind so I'm going to post it here:


You have no obligation to the neighbor because his land is landlocked. That is his problem, not your. 

There is a piece of property that adjoins my farm that is landlocked and has been for many decades.(long before I came on the scene in the late 60s). The heirs to the property finally got a clear title to the land and approached me stating that I or the other neighbor that their land adjoined had to give them access to the property because land cannot be landlocked. I told them they were wrong but I would give a fair price for the land if they decided to sell. They hired a dozer to cut a right of way through my neighbors land. My neighbor objected strenuously. (to put it nicely) After several years of posturing the heirs came to me to see if I was still interested. I was, of course, and offered them a fair price. They rejected my offer so I told them to take it or keep the land. I gave them 3 days to make up their mind before I would withdraw the offer. They accepted on the third day. I'm glad to be through with them and all their baloney. 

That is a long story to say that you are not responsible for for your neighbors mistakes here where I live. I bet your lawyer will tell you the same thing.

JMO
Doug


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## Ridgetop

Same thing with us. The property was landlocked and the buyer first told us we had to remove our pool and patio because he was putting a road in there. After he found out it was landlocked the builder tried to force us to give him an easement. He continually called us at all hours and harrassed us for access. We had to padlock or gate because when we were not there he would drive across our property to his property, often bringing heavy equipment. We finally sold him an easement on the rear of our property where he would have to put in a road, fire hydrants, street lights, etc. It would have cost him millions. The neighborhood property owners association and we fought him over putting more houses on the land than zoned for and doing illegal severe cutting into steep hillsides that would have undermined our and neighbors' properties and caused landslides. We ended up buying the property and paying 6x the value just to get the builder out of our hair and avoid nervous breakdown on my part. The city turned down all his permit applications, but it was just a matter of time before money greased the right hands. We immediately fenced the property with ours and run our sheep on it. When we first moved in 10 years earlier and realized the parcel was landlocked we tried to put an offer on it but the broker refused to submit it. The owner would have sold it to us. I did not know at the time that the broker was required by law to submit any offer made! Now I have learned a lot more about property laws, surveys, zoning, etc. Knowledge is power and with the power of knowledge it is harder for people to cheat you. 

*MeatCountry* what did your lawyer say?


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## ladytoysdream

Hope you were able to get this figured out.
Are you able to give us any update ?
Thanks.


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## moonspinner

Ridgetop, fantastic post. I understand Meaty's dilemma because I too tend to be more non-aggressive and don't make waves. But there are times you must stand up and no one messes with my land! My advice is to arm yourself with the facts, know with absolute and provable certainty what is your land, what is his and let him know once and for all you will not be selling! Put it on your lawyer if you have to, that he advised not to sell. But this is a case of give someone an inch and they'll take a yard (literally here!) Your neighbor has just slowly gone further and further, and because you've not stopped him he now expects a sale. This predicament and stress will not abate until he is convinced the matter has ended. Please give an update - I'm hooked on the story!


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## Ridgetop

*MEAT COUNTRY!:* Where are you? What happened?


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## MeatCountry

Hi guys sorry I don't meander much on the web these days. Anyways after I rejected the initial offer and placed "No Tresspassing" signs things were fine for the last few weeks until yesterday. 

My neighbor hired someone to do landscaping on their property which needless to say turned into landscaping on my property. Not only did they mow on the area where all 3 of my "No Tresspassing" Signs were staked in the ground but also came further onto my property. I asked the guy mowing in the future if he would not cut this area as it was my property, he apologized and said no problem. 

Also my neighbor had a survey done on their property so it seems they are still intent with buying, he says it has to go through the county or something........

I've had a few further incidences with my neighbor altering my survey stakes by either removing them or placing flags inside the poles. This on top of parking his items on my property and the now recent restarting of mowing and altering my landscape. Honestly it seems petty in the grand scheme of things but its to the point where I feel violated. 

For example one day I let my chickens free range ( Yes I was in the wrong I need a fence) they wondered over to his property when he reseeded his lawn. Best believe I got a personal visit asking me to lock them up to which I did comply ( again I admit I was in the wrong.) This happened once. Yet it seems I can't get the same courtesy regarding my space and land. I've placed signs and asked him to stop encroaching but nothing seems to be working. I don't want to be the bad guy and want to keep peace between my neighbors who are elderly. Plus they somewhat maintain the long driveway ( I'm still not sure how that deal works between them and another neighbor.) 

I can't afford a 6K fence at the moment and my real estate lawyer is as useless as they come. If you haven't guess no I still no nothing about the easement rights. And given VA law I doubt I can fully fence in my property. 

Anyway sorry for the rant I feel like just barricading my property in pallets lol at least those are free and honestly I still don't know what to say to the neighbor when he comes over regarding buying the land whenever that happens.


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## MeatCountry

moonspinner said:


> Ridgetop, fantastic post. I understand Meaty's dilemma because I too tend to be more non-aggressive and don't make waves. But there are times you must stand up and no one messes with my land! My advice is to arm yourself with the facts, know with absolute and provable certainty what is your land, what is his and let him know once and for all you will not be selling! Put it on your lawyer if you have to, that he advised not to sell. But this is a case of give someone an inch and they'll take a yard (literally here!) Your neighbor has just slowly gone further and further, and because you've not stopped him he now expects a sale. This predicament and stress will not abate until he is convinced the matter has ended. Please give an update - I'm hooked on the story!


I'm just not sure what to say regarding it now. The neighbor does it because no one else on the lane says anything we all just kind of stick to our own world. Even if I had enough money for fence around the perimeter I couldn't really do much with it because he would be locked in and VA has laws against it. 

Sorry for the typos taking some extra shifts I'm tired. lol.


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## GTX63

Landscapers, loggers, etc do not work on property adjacent to their job site when no trespassing signs are posted.
A logger cuts down a tree on my property, there can be expensive legal penalties.
A guy mowing runs over my property with his mower and damages my wife's flowers, puts a rock into my truck door, etc he is liable...so, unless the contractor was a Moe Howard moron, he was working under his clients directive, and/or lies.


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## GTX63

I feel so badly for you but unless you have a brother, pop, boyfriend or a decent attorney willing to close their fist, so to speak, you are going to have to be a dog's grits, either now or later when it is way beyond the point of return.


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## GTX63

When the neighbor comes for a visit to complain about chickens or access or something, that is the time for you to educate him.
You should put your thoughts on paper, even read them outloud; practice what you are going to say. Be clear, direct, to the point.
Do not let your discussion wander or allow them to start bringing up other issues. Just make your point, repeat your points in response, and before too long, thank him for understanding and stop the conversation.


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## Solar Geek

A short term temporary (but effective) 'land marking' can simply be wooden posts or those green metal landscape posts/fence posts placed intermittently with string or garden netting or fish line (but hang some string so no one can claim injury for not seeing the fish line). So you would not put a continuous fence in, just maybe every 15' put in 2 posts and tie the string over another 5'-10' area. Clearly looks temporary and will likely stop the incursions.


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## MeatCountry

GTX63 said:


> Landscapers, loggers, etc do not work on property adjacent to their job site when no trespassing signs are posted.
> A logger cuts down a tree on my property, there can be expensive legal penalties.
> A guy mowing runs over my property with his mower and damages my wife's flowers, puts a rock into my truck door, etc he is liable...so, unless the contractor was a Moe Howard moron, he was working under his clients directive, and/or lies.


I'm not sure how the guy missed the two giant stakes in the yard or decided to mow my no trespassing signs. We'll see if it continues. 



GTX63 said:


> When the neighbor comes for a visit to complain about chickens or access or something, that is the time for you to educate him.
> You should put your thoughts on paper, even read them outloud; practice what you are going to say. Be clear, direct, to the point.
> Do not let your discussion wander or allow them to start bringing up other issues. Just make your point, repeat your points in response, and before too long, thank him for understanding and stop the conversation.


Trying to be nice a keep the peace but I'm getting tired.


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## GTX63

You sure have plenty of folks here that are supporting you, if it helps at all.

My thought is that if you are miserable and upset over this, you are not keeping the peace.
The saying "Happy wife happy life" only applies to husbands.
Happy neighbor doesn't mean much to you right now, I'll bet, because whether he is happy or not, you are suffering.


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## MeatCountry

Solar Geek said:


> A short term temporary (but effective) 'land marking' can simply be wooden posts or those green metal landscape posts/fence posts placed intermittently with string or garden netting or fish line (but hang some string so no one can claim injury for not seeing the fish line). So you would not put a continuous fence in, just maybe every 15' put in 2 posts and tie the string over another 5'-10' area. Clearly looks temporary and will likely stop the incursions.


That's a great idea and I do have some metal t-posts around.


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## GTX63

Keeping the peace doesn't mean sucking it up. Sometimes it means being proactive.

I'm not a confrontational person, but I bet I'd get my neighbor's attention if I sent a bill over for his mow guy running over my stakes, my flowers, my foot, whatever.


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## MeatCountry

GTX63 said:


> Keeping the peace doesn't mean sucking it up. Sometimes it means being proactive.
> 
> I'm not a confrontational person, but I bet I'd get my neighbor's attention if I sent a bill over for his mow guy running over my stakes, my flowers, my foot, whatever.


I agree, next paycheck I'm buying more t-posts and will section that part off. I may just build a cheapie fence myself. It just sucks how my front part of the land is since my land goes up to the front of his house.


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## Ziptie

I would put the T-post and string up. If he complains tell him your planning on putting a fence for your chickens(so they don't bother him) and just working on it a little bit at a time.


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## Michael W. Smith

MeatCountry said:


> Also my neighbor had a survey done on their property so it seems they are still intent with buying, he says it has to go through the county or something........
> 
> I've had a few further incidences with my neighbor altering my survey stakes by either removing them or placing flags inside the poles. This on top of parking his items on my property and the now recent restarting of mowing and altering my landscape. Honestly it seems petty in the grand scheme of things but its to the point where I feel violated.
> 
> I still don't know what to say to the neighbor when he comes over regarding buying the land whenever that happens.


I wonder what the neighbor has told the surveyor? I'd be guessing he showed the surveyor the part of your property he intends to buy, and the surveyor will be doing the work and the deed to get it split off. The surveyor assumes you are in agreement.

He will continue to take advantage of you because you are letting him. Anything he parks on your land would "disappear". Take a picture of it on your land, and make it disappear into your garage. When the law gets involved, show them the picture and tell them the stuff was "abandoned" on your property. Inform them if the neighbor wants the stuff back, you want this crap to stop NOW.

When the neighbor shows up with the new survey and the new deed asking when you can meet him at the lawyers office to get the deal done, inform him that due to all the crap he has been doing - messing with your stakes, mowing your ground, etc., the property is NOT FOR SALE. Bid him good day and let him know it's the end of discussion.


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## Danaus29

The police should have been contacted months ago. But now is a good time to start playing hardball. You will have to push back. Your jerk neighbor is a bully and you are the little nerdy kid wearing glasses or walking with a limp. But unlike school, the police will actually intervene. At the very least you will have some record of him harassing you and littering, trespassing and destroying your property. In some states continued trespass after being notified of trespassing can become a felony.


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## MeatCountry

Danaus29 said:


> The police should have been contacted months ago. But now is a good time to start playing hardball. You will have to push back. Your jerk neighbor is a bully and you are the little nerdy kid wearing glasses or walking with a limp. But unlike school, the police will actually intervene. At the very least you will have some record of him harassing you and littering, trespassing and destroying your property. In some states continued trespass after being notified of trespassing can become a felony.


You are correct and actually my dad and I had this talk this past week. Basically he said basically man up, say no sale, and contact the police the next time he trespasses. I just don't want to cause any waves other than this annoyance the road is very quiet. My neighbor is very old and he takes care of the easement ( not on my property) but a road I use to get to it. 

Even if I call the police there is nothing I can do because its a civil matter from what I read. Plus the neighbor does these things when I'm not there. Other than taking pictures I have no video proof of him trespassing. 

At the end of the day I just don't want to be that dick causing waves in the neighborhood. This neighbor is someone I have to see everyday and I really don't want fractious relations. In either case I see a lawyer today to assist me with the fencing issues so we'll see how that goes.


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## Danaus29

You aren't the one causing problems. The trespassing neighbor is the one causing waves. Have your lawyer send him a letter and set up some cameras. Trespassing is a misdemeanor and the penalty is up to 12 months in jail and a $2500.00 fine. But you have to give him notice and catch him in the act. You could also just put up signs and cameras.
http://humbrechtlaw.com/criminal-ch...crimes-in-virginia/virginia-trespassing-laws/

Good luck. I hate people who have no respect for others.


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## MeatCountry

Danaus29 said:


> You aren't the one causing problems. The trespassing neighbor is the one causing waves. Have your lawyer send him a letter and set up some cameras. Trespassing is a misdemeanor and the penalty is up to 12 months in jail and a $2500.00 fine. But you have to give him notice and catch him in the act. You could also just put up signs and cameras.
> http://humbrechtlaw.com/criminal-ch...crimes-in-virginia/virginia-trespassing-laws/
> 
> Good luck. I hate people who have no respect for others.


I have set up signs but the neighbor disregards them.Also my lawyer stated that even if I catch my neighbor trespassing and call the police its a civil issue. Nothing would be done. My best bet is the fence right now. I asked my lawyer about erecting the fence that would block my neighbor on one side and was told its not my problem as long as the neighbor can and enter and leave the property.


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## farmrbrown

MeatCountry said:


> I have set up signs but the neighbor disregards them.Also my lawyer stated that even if I catch my neighbor trespassing and call the police its a civil issue. Nothing would be done. My best bet is the fence right now. I asked my lawyer about erecting the fence that would block my neighbor on one side and was told its not my problem as long as the neighbor can and enter and leave the property.


You probably know this already, but your lawyer is wrong.
I was going to post the same link as Danus29, it's a misdemeanor, a criminal offense same as everywhere else.
If he's been given notice first, that's it.
Now, getting a local cop to DO anything is a different problem, which can usually be solved with a phone call to their boss.


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## Danaus29

Yes, the lawyer is wrong. That's why I posted the link. Trespassing is a criminal matter. Civil matters don't have jail time as a penalty. Makes me question the lawyers motives. What are they gaining by lying to a client?


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## MeatCountry

I'll be honest I did not like this lawyer it took them a long time to get back to me, and even so I had to ask a realtor to nudge them a bit. However this lawyer did the closing on my property. 

The lawyer stated they would get back to me regarding the easement but haven't heard from them yet, and doubt I will.


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## GTX63

Many attornies will offer an initial consultation, usually 30 minutes, without a charge.
That gives you say, 5-10 minutes to summarize your issues, and allow time for Q&A, feedback, etc.
You should know by the end of that period whether the lawyer is qualified to represent you and "get results".
Unfortunately, in my experience, a lot of lawyers, as well as some doctors, can be non-committal in their answers and in their forecasts. They are just another "guy".

I once sat in with a business partner in a conference room with 4 real estate attornies and their assistants, one who represented several high profile personalities, while we discussed a rather messy dispute. We had purchased a block of properties that had several contracts attached to vendors we were not aware of at closing and needed to litigate an exit strategy with them.
It seemed that every time the question was raised on how to proceed, one of them would respond with "If we do A, then B could happen, or if we do C then D, etc". Rephrasing the question only caused them to rephrase their reponse, which was vague and non-committal.
Your attorney should be telling how he is going to WIN for you, explaining his methods and the expected results and a timeline for both.
Honest and forthright up front and willing to put a foot on your target's head.
Otherwise you are going to have stiff neck looking out your window at the neighbor one minute and your phone the next.


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## MeatCountry

GTX63 said:


> Many attornies will offer an initial consultation, usually 30 minutes, without a charge.
> That gives you say, 5-10 minutes to summarize your issues, and allow time for Q&A, feedback, etc.
> You should know by the end of that period whether the lawyer is qualified to represent you and "get results".
> Unfortunately, in my experience, a lot of lawyers, as well as some doctors, can be non-committal in their answers and in their forecasts. They are just another "guy".
> 
> I once sat in with a business partner in a conference room with 4 real estate attornies and their assistants, one who represented several high profile personalities, while we discussed a rather messy dispute. We had purchased a block of properties that had several contracts attached to vendors we were not aware of at closing and needed to litigate an exit strategy with them.
> It seemed that every time the question was raised on how to proceed, one of them would respond with "If we do A, then B could happen, or if we do C then D, etc". Rephrasing the question only caused them to rephrase their reponse, which was vague and non-committal.
> *Your attorney should be telling how he is going to WIN for you, explaining his methods and the expected results and a timeline for both.*
> Honest and forthright up front and willing to put a foot on your target's head.
> Otherwise you are going to have stiff neck looking out your window at the neighbor one minute and your phone the next.


This was what I was expecting. :-/

I paid $75 for a 25 minute consultation that didn't really make me feel confident or and the lawyer didn't give a rat's. I was angry about it.


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## po boy

Most closing attorneys are experts at reading closing documents and a little about real estate law or continuing trespass.

This may have been posted already. Find an attorney that will sue for the continuing trespass and get it in front of a judge.


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## Danaus29

If you were angry with the lawyer, dump them and hire another. You need a lawyer that works for you, not one that just wants to collect money.

You don't want a real estate lawyer. Right now you need one that specializes in harassment cases.


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## Ridgetop

*Constant encroachments by "nice" neighbors are their way of wearing you own until you passively let them go ahead with whatever they are doing. This can then set up an easement across your property without any signatures. You will have a harder time to fight this if it comes to court when the "nice' neighbor (or the buyer of his property) sues you in court for "his" property! 

Yes, you have to "man up" or "woman up", whichever. You are making excuses for allowing this to happen. 

First, on encroachment cases, there is a time period for the proscriptive easement justification. This starts after you have notified the trespasser to cease and desist. This has happened so your time has started running. Forget about the attorney, YOU write out and send him a letter, with a Return Receipt Requested that he has to sign, telling him that you are not interested in selling any portion of your property. The letter must also reference his continued trespass and DEMAND that he stop trespassing, removing shrubbery, trees, etc. I SUGGEST YOU SEND HIM THIS LETTER THROUGH THE GENERAL POST AS WELL AS BY RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED MAIL.

Next, unless you have it in writing that YOU must maintain the easement access to your property, the property owner is usually required to maintain it. 

Then, you may have to sue him for a Cease and Desist Order to keep off your property. Once you have that Order, you can call the police when he disobeys it. TAKE PICTURES OF HIS WORKMEN OWING, CHOPPING DOWN, REMOVING, ANY PORTION OF YOUR PROPERTY, AND STORING ANYTHING ON IT.*

*LAST, BUT NOT LEAST, GET A NEW ATTORNEY, ONE THAT DOES LITIGATION NOT JUST REAL ESTATE CLOSING LAW!*

You have received lots of good advice here. You have not taken any of it. If you let this continue, you will lose some of your property, lots of money, and all of your self-esteem. You say you want a "peaceful life". Constantly having this "nice" neighbor put you through a lot of worry, stress, and misery does not sound like he is going to let you have a "peaceful" life..

Frankly, I would find a personal injury litigation attorney and sue this so-and-so for trespass, harassment, and mental anguish. Most personal injury attorneys will jump all over this. Usually they work on a percentage basis of what they think you will get in damages. The neighbor's homeowner's insurance will have an amount that covers this. If it doesn't cover it and you win your attorney will proceed against the neighbor's bank account and home. 

Not to be unsympathetic, but this forum has pretty much done all it can for you. It is up to you now..


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## Danaus29

Just wanted to add that we've recently had a trespasser on our other property. Neighbor saw a truck in the driveway and a man walking around the house. Called the police who said that if I had the property posted they would have been able to visit the trespasser (we got the license plate number) and give them a warning about trespassing. Then if they were seen again the police would be able to arrest them. BUT despite Ohio's 'no trespassing' law, the violator must be notified for it to be escalated. The police told me that posts, rope, and signs together constitute written notice and violators who walk or drive past signs can be prosecuted. Laws might vary in your area but a visible property line and signage serve as written notice here. 

Meatcountry, If you put posts and ropes or string up on the line again, make sure you get pictures. Video of you walking the line with the signs and visible markings in the video would go a long way if your jerk neighbor continues to trespass. Maybe include a shot of a current newspaper with date legible as part of a posted signage picture. Time and date stamps on cameras can be fudged and may not be considered valid proof of the date.


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## GTX63

You know it isn’t too difficult for you to find out who that license plate number belongs to.


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## Danaus29

GTX63 said:


> You know it isn’t too difficult for you to find out who that license plate number belongs to.


Please enlighten me. I don't have any police friends that are willing to share the info. I just know what city they live in.


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## Alice In TX/MO

There is an online service that will do this for a fee.... my friend says. I have not personally used it.


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## Alice In TX/MO

There is an online service that will do this for a fee.... my friend says. I have not personally used it.


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## moonspinner

Someone was trespassing on my place and I called the cops and they immediately came and were very serious and checked out everything.


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## Danaus29

moonspinner said:


> Someone was trespassing on my place and I called the cops and they immediately came and were very serious and checked out everything.


My responding officer would have checked it out if I had asked or the building had been broken into. But out here in the sticks the response time is very long. I was surprised that it was less than an hour. Your state laws may be different about trespassing and required notification.


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## MeatCountry

Well its official I told the neighbor I am not longer selling the land.  Thank you to this forum! 

Of course he seemed upset about it, but honestly I couldn't do it anymore. I just hope the badgering and unannounced visits stop now.


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## MeatCountry

Small update, we started marking the area for the fence. The neighbor was not happy they came out with their vehicle and started accessing the marks. I believe they don't want me to fence my driveway because they want to enter their property using mine. Since their portion is now paved in a "U" they can enter and leave easier.


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## GTX63

Meatcountry, I'll agree that the neighbor may not be happy. They might be out there eyeballing the marks the same way I used to eyeball my pittance of a paycheck on Fridays. As a young man I stared at it long and hard but it didn't change anything, lol.
Now that you have started taking positive action and have enlisted a few others, he can't do much.
He knows it isn't just between "you and him".
If he thought he had a legal right, then he would've/should've exercised it by now.
Glad you have kept everyone updated and shared some good news.


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## AmericanStand

Danaus29 said:


> Please enlighten me. I don't have any police friends that are willing to share the info. I just know what city they live in.


 Call the state department that does license plates in your state usually there is a small fee. I think in my state it is three dollars


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## Danaus29

Thanks. I found the site then. If I can find that number or get one from another person on my property I will get the info. Costs $5 here.


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## MeatCountry

GTX63 said:


> Meatcountry, I'll agree that the neighbor may not be happy. They might be out there eyeballing the marks the same way I used to eyeball my pittance of a paycheck on Fridays. As a young man I stared at it long and hard but it didn't change anything, lol.
> Now that you have started taking positive action and have enlisted a few others, he can't do much.
> He knows it isn't just between "you and him".
> If he thought he had a legal right, then he would've/should've exercised it by now.
> Glad you have kept everyone updated and shared some good news.


I'm slightly concerned about him becoming aggressive, just find it odd anyone would do that. I'll definitely feel better when the fence is completed.


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## GTX63

MeatCountry said:


> I'm slightly concerned about him becoming aggressive, just find it odd anyone would do that. I'll definitely feel better when the fence is completed.


Maybe I should have asked you to define “aggressive “.
Might not want to have any further contact without a witness or a recording device.


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## MeatCountry

GTX63 said:


> Maybe I should have asked you to define “aggressive “.
> Might not want to have any further contact without a witness or a recording device.


Blocking construction or when the fence is completed blocking me in at the gate. I'm not saying that my neighbor will do this but I've had friends who had neighbors who were for a better term quite unbelievable in their actions. 

I'm preparing for the worst while hoping for the best.


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## Danaus29

Blocking you at the gate is technically unlawful detention, a federal offense. I would have no problem calling the cops about that one. Blocking construction is another matter but the local police should be responsive if someone is blocking your access or exit to your property.


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## ladytoysdream

MeatCountry said:


> Over the past 2 years the neighbor has taken upon themselves to not only mow my plot well
> beyond the survey stakes but also *started cutting back my trees* and bushes and nothing has been set yet.


If your neighbor cuts any of your trees, you can have a DEC officer come in, and your neighbor can be arrested for
that and have to pay fines. If neighbor has no written permission to be on your land, and has no lease in place,
then he is in the wrong. for causing damages.


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## AmericanStand

Problem with that is how are you gonna prove it


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## MeatCountry

There is a laundry list of things I could in hindsight I go after my neighbor for. While some annoying (like another missing survey stake) its not worth escalating imo. When the fence is finished on that side I will replant replacement trees and bushes. 

interesting this popped up though because it appears he's asking the neighbors in front for property.


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## AmericanStand

Lol Well now that you have stood up to him he’s got to do something


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## MeatCountry

Well he doesn't like me now as I don't exist anymore lol. However I will say part of me is curious what portion of land he's trying to buy. We are surround by working fields or swamp. My only guess is a small piece of land he already built his shed and other things on.


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## AmericanStand

Lol well yes it would be good to own the land you have built on!


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