# What is this about???



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

A few moments ago I tried to pull up this HomesteadingToday forum so as to log in and got the message that firefox could not connect because the HT forum had calculated its site in such a way that stops firefox from connecting.

Then I clicked on a "thread" in the HT forum and the thread came up just fine. I was able to log in from there. 

What is this about?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I'd say it's just a random glitch if it doesn't happen repeatedly.
For computers to do what they do, every electron has to be in the right place at the right time every time.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Had the same thing happen earlier.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I've noticed FF has been updating a lot this week on my work computer. I use chrome at home.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I'm using chrome now, I have noticed the FF updates also, had one shortly before I couldn't get to HT. Don't know if it is a clue but strange


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I thought I had the "chrome" browser; but when looked in computer couldn't find it. I'm wondering if maybe I shouldn't get it. Will it work with Windows XP? If I did start using Chrome, would I not be able to do what firefox now permits? Don't want to mess up my computer work.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

motdaugrnds said:


> Don't want to mess up my computer work.


Set a "Restore" point before you download, and if there are problems you can just delete Chrome and go back to where you started.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

motdaugrnds said:


> Will it work with Windows XP?


https://www.cnet.com/news/google-finally-pulling-the-plug-on-chrome-for-windows-xp/


> Google finally pulling the plug on Chrome for Windows XP. Chrome will no longer be supported on older versions of Windows and Mac OS X from April 2016


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> https://www.cnet.com/news/google-finally-pulling-the-plug-on-chrome-for-windows-xp/


You can still download chrome for XP but its not supported and will get no updates, But if your running XP security may not be a of a prime concern for you.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

I think you would have to get very old browser to not support HTTPS. One thing that does happen with sites that use HTTPS, if your computer's internal clock is significantly off (usually means nickel size battery on motherboard that lets it hold bios settings when computer off, is bad) then you wont connect. You can usually set your operating system to automatically update time when you connect to internet. This is a workaround. But on desktop computer, not hard to replace this battery (its sold most places that sell drycell batteries, costs couple bucks). It can be painful procedure on some laptops.

By way I use Firefox 99.9% of the time and have had no problems connecting to this website with it.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> https://www.cnet.com/news/google-finally-pulling-the-plug-on-chrome-for-windows-xp/


Not supported and won't work are two completely different things.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thanks everyone. Guess I'll stick with FireFox until it actually stops working for me.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Here are some alternative browsers for XP.

http://alternativeto.net/list/updated-web-browsers-for-windows-xp

I get it that XP is what you are used to and I am sure its still functional, though modern software that will run on it will gradually decrease. I kept it on my old desktop for long time to run tax software. Then they did something to the software so it would no longer run on XP couple years ago. That was end of that.

I actually switched to first BeOS, then linux back in win98 era for daily use, so never did use XP as daily operating sytem. Experimented some with it. The only version XP I actually really liked was an unofficial one somebody modified and stripped out lot of cruft and called TinyXP. Very fast, and super stable, about same size and speed as Puppy Linux. If Puppy Linux hadnt existed, think I could have lived with TinyXP for the duration.

On older hardware, way to go is something like Slitaz or Puppy or Xubuntu/Lubuntu linux. The latest versions of these can run the latest version of Firefox/Chrome/Chromium/Opera browser. I read the latest Xubuntu 17.04 can now happily run on pc with only 1GB RAM much like Puppy. There are versions of linux that can run on less, but then you get into problem of software like modern browser that has its own RAM requirements. Even if the operating system can boot up, doesnt mean the software can start/run properly.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

I gave quick look and I know Kmeleon is a winner from past experiences with it. Probably Midori and Slimjet be worth exploring too. 

You can have multiple browsers, you dont need to pick just one, assuming you have room for it. Midori is interesting, its was mostly designed as linux browser, but there is a windows version. I might download it and experiment with it, I think I still have TinyXP on one of my old laptops that I no longer use. Thinking about it, its got older version 1.5Ghz Pentium M single core processor and not sure if it has even 1 GB RAM. Probably somewhat similar to specs on your computer. Think it has some older version Puppy too in a dual boot setup, could try replacing that with a more modern version and see how it runs.

Reading about some of alternative browsers in link above, it has gotten to where there are special versions of those browsers for XP and Vista. So they tend to just update security on older version that did run ok on those systems. Since newer versions have stuff XP/Vista cant handle. Kmeleon and Midori are light weight browsers, but if they do what you want them to do, then all is golden. They wont have all the features of latest Firefox or Chrome or Opera.

And it might get to where you can do most of what you want with one of them, then only open older bigger browser if you run into some site they wont support.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Still looking for the old Toughbook with TinyXp. But found an old HP laptop with Sempron 2800, which is single core 1.6Ghz and 1GB RAM. It has older puppy linux on it with Firefox 17. Yea that old. I am posting this with it now. Its not super happy with all the ads but its quite usable despite ancient and limited hardware. Will try booting from Knoppix with late version of Chrome and see what it does. Then with Xubuntu 16.04 with fairly recent Firefox.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Ok same laptop, not enough RAM to boot live Knoppix dvd. Xubuntu 16.04 boots but with limited RAM, Firefox crashes. 17.04 supposed to use less RAM.

Booted Tahrpup 6.0.2 and posting this with Palemoon 24.7.1. Its working fine. Will try Slitaz next. Its smaller than Puppy so shouldnt have any problem.

Again doing this to show what works with older single core processor and 1GB RAM memory which is probably what you have.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

I'd forgotten, I only have 64bit version of Slitaz so of course it wouldnt boot on a singe core processor laptop. But I booted 32bit version Sparky Linux 4.3 live dvd. It not only booted to desktop, but I was able to mess with Firefox 45.5 that comes with it and it didnt crash like Firefox did in Xubuntu. Unfortunately for some reason I couldnt connect to wifi. Mysterious since this same Sparky dvd booted on my desktop with the same usb wifi adapter has no problem connecting. I assume it has something to do with this laptop only having usb1.1 ports??? The desktop has usb2 ports. Course Puppy Linux "Tahrpup" had no problem connecting using this usb wifi adapter. So??? Sparky does have a much newer kernel so probably some support for the older hardware broken. Still cool that Sparky with a relatively modern version of Firefox could boot and run without crashing on this old laptop. I bet it is some usb 1.1 support issue in linux kernel 4.x.....

Just saying there is hope for extended life, even on an older single core computer with only 1GB RAM.

Oh I was curious and booted a win10 install dvd on this laptop. It was very slow to boot, but didnt object at any point, but since I didnt want to go through entire process wiping out the hard drive contents, dont know if it would eventually fail or not. Really borderline installation if it worked. But this is older win10 version that should still install with only 1GB RAM. So might hunt up a spare hard drive I dont care about and just try it sometime. Win10 with 1GB RAM be kinda interesting. If I could kill enough background processes from running, it might sorta work ok. Marginally.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Using Sparky right now booted from same live dvd and using same usb wifi adapter, only on my old desktop. Nothing wrong with the driver. Its something with the usb1.1 that the old laptop has. Googling and not finding other mention of this. But seems seems to be some incompatibility with usb controller driver in the 4.x kernel and the laptop hardware. Thats a shame. But Tahrpup 6.0.2 works fine, can use latest browser and has no problem with usb1.1 and wifi adapter.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Well with enough patience and time, probably get anything working. I got Knoppix booting. Getting wifi to work on the old HP Pavillion ZE2000 was painful. Like Xubuntu and Sparky, it has a newer linux kernel and puts up fight on this laptop. First the laptop has a hardware wifi block that Puppy ignored, but Knoppix, Xubuntu, and Sparky honor. There is a button above keyboard you push to toggle this block on and off. Then had to manually start the network manager. Then after wifi completely unblocked, still had to choose the hidden wifi option. Typed in name of my hotspot and hit enter. Bingo it suddenly discovered it and showed it as an option. Clicked on that and it connected. What in world makes all this necessary on the old Pavillion is beyond me. Its all automagic on the desktop using same live dvd and the same usb wifi adapter.

Also seems the Pavillion even with the old 1.6ghz Sempron single core processor, it does have usb2 ports. Just one of them doesnt work. ugh! If its modern enough to have usb2 ports, suspect 32bit version of win10 could be installed.

Anyway using Chrome 53 to post this. 1GB RAM does make it slow to load, same with Firefox. But once loaded it surfs ok. Puppy especially is more ok with 1GB, Sparky too though its considerably bigger.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Tried Xubuntu again. Bingo, I had to 'sudo service network-manager start' but shortly after that command was accepted, the wifi hotspot showed up and I could connect. I assume similar with Sparky. Some odd interaction of the 4.x kernel and the old Pavillion hardware. No doubt if I actually installed it rather than running it from live dvd, I could modify it to run this command automatically during boot process.

With only 1GB RAM Firefox takes a wee bit time to load, but once loaded it surfs normally. I'd still say it would be worth upgrading to 2GB (max for this laptop) but if you didt want to, it works fine this way. And of course Ghostery and Self Destructing Cookies extensions help a good bit with surfing speed on low spec computer. 

Wish I could find the old Toughbook, not sure it even has 1GB RAM. Seriously if buying a used computer, sellers are asking just as much for the old single core processor versions as the dual core. Buy the dual core! But if you have an old computer setting around or somebody just gives you one, these are perfectly usable.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Ok posting from Sparky now. It actually saw both the usb wifi adapter and the one built in. On a whim, I picked the internal one. Wow, it had proper driver installed and was able to use it. Most of the linux distributions dont have a usable driver ready for it. You have to compile one. So for this particular old laptop, if I were going to use it, 2GB RAM and Sparky Linux. Being able to use that internal wifi adapter means lot less hassle. Though I would use Puppy if I wanted to get by with 1GB.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

usExperimented with two small third party browsers. First one called Dooble. It loaded on the old hp with 1GB RAM in like 4 seconds. Firefox takes 15 to 20 seconds.

Second is called Slimjet. It loaded in 6 seconds. Quite a nice browser uses Chrome "blink" rendering engine. Has a few quirks but on an antique computer with 1GB RAM, might be worth considering. No extensions, but has built in ad blocker you can activate and some script controls.though nowhere as nice as NO-SCRIPT or even Ghostery.

Posting this with it now.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Finally found the Slimjet forum. Seems for version 14.x of linux Slimjet, you need to update a static linux library (like a ddl file in windows). They give handy link. Once I did that, I could modify the toolbar. Oh and seems Slimjet CAN use Chrome extensions. However when I try to point it to the Chrome extension page, it gives a security error and refuses. 

Actually if your system has at least 2GB RAM, not sure it offers any great benefit over Firefox or Chrome. But its nice on low spec hardware. Like say loads in 6 seconds on the antique HP laptop. 

Oh and if I havent already mentioned it, Slimjet for XP and Vista stopped at version 10 though they say they will fix any security problems that crop up on it for some time yet if possible, but since they base Slimjet on Chrome and Chrome no longer supports XP..... You want to use more current version Slimjet on old XP hardware, you will have to install current 32bit version linux and install current linux version of Slimjet. I would suggest either Puppy or Sparky. 3rd party support for XP is waning fast. And the thing that really kills old operating systems off fast is when there is no longer a current browser being produced for them. I suspect not that many more years until 32bit linux is discontinued. Even today most computers are 64bit.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Ah another slimmed down Chrome called SRWare Iron Browser. I personally like this one better than Slimjet. You want the latest version 58. There is at least slightly earlier version that has crazy SSL problems (bug in Chrome source, not Iron Browser) give you security error just trying to do a Google search! Also since like Slimjet, its also based on Chrome, version 49 was last to work with XP. 

I even installed it on my Lenovo cloudbook with win10. It loads almost instantly despite 2GB RAM. I added Ghostery, Cookie Autodelete, and Adblocker Ultimate. All Chrome extensions.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

ok, seems there is some problem for iron browser to deal with SSL on some sites in linux version with kernel less than 4.x. i finally found my old panasonic toughbook c-50. It maxes out at 1.25GB RAM Installed Sparky linux with kernel 4.5 and it boots to desktop in 30 seconds. of course firefox took 15sec to load and was bit clunky surfing. Iron browser loads lot faster and surfs ok, with slight slowness though that might be due to the usb wifi adapter plugged into usb1.1 port. This is an old laptop. But it works ok and I could live with it like this if this is what i had available. Just making point that one can get by with quite old computer for basic use and not having to spend money.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Oh, this is interesting: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/176757-extended-kernel-for-xp-extendedxp/ I had read of people doing this to keep win98 going longer. Now people doing it for win2000 and winXP. On PaleMoon browser forum, somebody showed latest Palemoon that doesnt come with XP support running fine on XP with this extended kernel. If somebody is just deadset on keeping XP going few more years, this is going to be the way to do it.

The downside of either doing the extended kernel thing or switching to linux or other such is that people still running XP tend not to be very technical oriented so doesnt do them a lot of good. They would need a techie friend to do it for them for free. Wouldnt be worth hiring somebody, you could buy a win10 computer cheaper than cost of the labor.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

HJ -- Seems like you're talking to yourself here for the last week or so.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

mnn2501 said:


> HJ -- Seems like you're talking to yourself here for the last week or so.


LOL, thats what hermits do!


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HermitJohn said:


> LOL, thats what hermits do!


I look at the messages you leave. I don't have a lot to add because I don't know much about Linux desktops.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Like say the original poster's fears at the end of life of her operating system and software that will run on it has my interest. The old Toughbook is about oldest computer I have that still runs. I doubt her computer is any lower spec than that. As I say Sparky Linux with XFCE desktop runs on it, but its bit sluggish. 1.25GB RAM (thats it, cant take more RAM than that) is pretty limiting in modern world. The old HP laptop with only 1GB did better and can boot most of 32bit live linux dvds, but its newer/faster processor and can take 2GB RAM. 

I am amazed that Sparky is only current version linux that i have gotten to boot on Toughbook from dvd. The only other in my small collection is Puppy Slacko 5.3. Thats it, Slacko 5.7 and newer wont boot. Slacko 5.3 runs great with no sluggishness, but comes with Firefox 17 which is bit long in the tooth. I havent spent the time to see if it will run latest Iron Browser or newer Firefox. Iron Browser does ok on 32bit Sparky, but has had SSL problems on other 32bit versions of linux especially those with 3.x linux kernel. I think Iron/Chromium 52 might be last version happy with SSL on older 32bit kernels. Chrome doesnt do 32bit versions anymore. Google is trying to force improved SSL security on web. Its painful for those with old systems, but probably good thing in long run. Help get rid of fake websites.

Seriously though I can tinker on this stuff, its probably not something somebody still using XP is probably going to be comfortable doing on their own. You have to be comfortable changing stuff and experimenting, and helps a lot not to be experimenting with your only computer.

Anyway I have also looked in a different direction. You can find BUY IT NOW Core2Duo 3.0GHZ desktop, even comes with a hard drive, and 4GB RAM, though hard drive wiped and you would have to install your own operating system. $35 shipped. That should do pretty well.

But core2duo not that interesting, already have experience with that or equivalent.

But found an Dell Latitude 6330e buisiness laptop having i5 with 4GB, can take 8GB RAM missing hard drive and screen and got it for $20. Boots to bios. On its way. I have never owned anything faster than core2duo or equivalent. Wanted to see if it really made much difference, will just hook it to my desktop monitor. Though complete these sell for lot more money so suppose worth fixing screen. I think i5 not much improvement for most day to day home use type stuff. It would probably run full bloated unrestrained win10, or big bloated KDE/GNOME linux desktop much better. But otherwise for actual usefullness, probably not. Bloat is not useful. 

Can say that if one has any money at all, its not very expensive to significantly upgrade hardware. Saves lot hassle figuring workarounds on old very limited hardware. Course again you have to be familiar with whats being sold. I saw lot of refurbished laptops asking $100+ that were just old core2duo off lease with missing hard drive and win10 installed. Not that great of a buy unless you need to hire your computer worked on, then guess buying a laptop that comes refurbished might be cheaper than paying hour labor at computer shop. Gamble as you dont know how thorough job they did on it. Some horror stories of refurb computers on Amazon. Think they just hire some kid for minimum wage to do this stuff.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

i thought it was odd I couldnt boot anything but Sparky or one older puppy. Well its the funky dvd drive on this old machine that may or may not decide it likes particular home burned dvds. i have an external dvd drive but cant boot from usb, machine too old. But Puppy can be installed manually by copying files from dvd and setting GRUB to boot them. So installed Tahrpup 6.02 manually and set GRUB to boot it. Voila. I am posting with it now. Unfortunately it only came with Palemoon browser, I use this Tahrpup day to day on my desktop, but had installed latest Firefox on my desktop install of Tahrpup. Firefox should work ok on Toughbook too like that as Tahrpup isnt showing the lag that Sparky does. Sparky is just too top heavy to run really well on this old hardware.

And there is a puppyized version of ubuntu 16.04 called XenialDog. its an unofficial one off made by a puppy fan. Quite nice actually, I like it better than Xubuntu, mostly cause its smaller, boots faster, and i dont have to play sudo permission (mother may I?) games to access anything. i can just log on as root when I want to modify things.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

ok posting this from the old Toughbook on Tahrpup 6.02 using IronBrowser Version 58.0.3050.0 portable edition. Anyway it has wee bit lag, but considering the hardware, does really well. modern big bloat browsers just suck on low RAM. Oh and it has the same SSL problem in 32bit linux 3.x kernel as it did on other such systems. 

I havent tried it yet on tinyXP since i still need to get an XP driver for the wifi adapter, but have Kmeleon, version 75.1. I tried it on win10 and its what i would expect, small and fairly fast. Pointless though on modern system as Chromium and Firefox do fine on such and Kmeleon probably not that much noticably faster. But Kmeleon has always been great on old hardware. Long ago I kept an old win95 only laptop going far beyond when everybody else had given up on such hardware, just because of Kmeleon ran reasonably well on it. 

Also looking at a browser called Otter Browser, its supposed to be imitation open source version of old Opera 12 browser before Opera became a Chromium clone. only modernized. No extension support but if you dont mind that, it might be worth considering, posts on their forum indicate that it still supports XP though they admit that support will wane over time. nobody is supporting XP and nobody is creating or patching the parts needed to create a modern browser for it. Both 32bit and 64bit for windows. Only 64bit linux version so to run in linux on older system need to run it in Wine which it apparently does ok. But with very limited RAM, trying to use Wine probably be pretty slow and frustrating.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Very hot afternoon, so playing more with the Toughbook. ok, install PLOP boot manager to the mbr of hard drive. It lets ole betsy boot from usb, option not available in bios. So boot 32bit demo version of Xubuntu from a thumb drive. Night and day!!! Using Firefox 45 built into it without the lag when I used Firefox in Sparky. 

I was wondering why the old HP was so much faster since they are very similar spec. The HP can max at 2GB RAM, but right now it only has 1GB. however i had been running systems on it from usb and live dvd, since it will boot an usb without PLOP boot manager and its dvdrom lot less picky. Well apparently the big bottleneck is a slow cludgy old hard drive on Toughbook. Puppy boots fast and runs fast as it runs mostly in RAM however you load it. Sparky was fully installed so lot more dependent on hard drive. Sparky is much like Xubuntu, just has newer kernel. I imagine the Toughbook would improve greatly using usb SSD. Its got IDE hard drive so with adapter necessary for SATA SSD, you arent going to gain any speed over usb SSD. But take some experimenting and living with it a bit, but guessing the old Toughbook has more life left in it than I suspected.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Got my 2 sticks of generic 1GB RAM for the HP with Sempron 1.6ghz. Ok used both sticks and it wont boot anything. Yep, one of sticks is bad. So remove it and add one of old sticks. Surprisingly it still shows 2GB. I guess it was only recognizing one of the old sticks. One was Crucial and other generic.

Booted now with into Tahrpup. Well it does run faster. I could live with this. But I think the functional generic stick ram is little twitchy. Its working but... Sucks but on this old stuff, the generic is only ram available in sizes to max out laptop ram capacity, the name brand stuff is rare and expensive in larger sizes.

Now as experiment i got 4GB DDR2 to double my desktop ram from 2GB to 4GB. Thats max for it. Was able to get name brand used for it. Seriously if you have any choice, avoid the generic stuff, had problems in past. I only got it for the HP cause there wasnt any serious alternative. Could buy a newer used newer laptop with more RAM included than buying namebrand in size needed for the HP.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Rainy day so playing more with the HP Pavilion today. Yes Sempron 1.6Ghz officially, but got to reading as it seems significantly faster than the 1.5Ghz Pentium M on the old Toughbook. They had this Sempron competing with the pentium 4 back in the day. So the Sempron is the equivalent of a P4 rated 2.8Ghz. Thats nearly speed of my old desktop 3.4Ghz P4, though its not hyperthreaded like the P4. Means the P4 can pretend to be dual core and run 64 bit system if one should so desire. I think some of last Semprons did similar so they could also run 64bit though still single core. But like the hyperthreaded P4, it was just marketing until they could scale up production of the two core processors.

Also the Pavilion doesnt officially support USB boot. When I plugged the SSD I use to run Puppy on desktop computer, into the one working usb port on the HP, it booted. I was surprised. With 2GB RAM and the fast SSD, dont see much difference in how Puppy runs on either. Running Puppy off the SSD faster than running it from live cd.

Course saying this, frankly with the Intel i5 and AMD A8 retired laptops out there cheap, there isnt much point in running an old single core unless you just want to or are super frugal. Even core2duo or turion64 is faster than single core.


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