# ... a reminder ...



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Home education can be a very good way (in this day and age) of teaching children. We all are aware of that. However, public education offers something "most" home education does not, i.e. opportunity for social interaction that provide the avenue for "communicational education". (Think about this please. The way we "talk"; the words/gestures/facial expressions/body posture/tone of voice we use to communicate is what lets others know who we are. Even if we use those to hide certain aspects of ourselves from others, the "hiding" shows up in how we convey messages.)

Communication [interpersonal (how we talk "inside" to ourselves) as well as intrapersonal (how we talk to others)] is the golden thread that runs through absolutely everything we do. In home schooling it is important to get beyond "family" methods of processing communication in order to "teach" the child. Can parents & syblings truly do this at home?


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

motdaugrnds said:


> In home schooling it is important to get beyond "family" methods of processing communication in order to "teach" the child. Can parents & syblings truly do this at home?


What would make you think that most homeschooling families do not ever interact with other people. 

Home schooling does not mean "school at home" e.g. I stand in front of the room and put my kids at little desks. Most home schooling families I know would argue they spend more time in the car than at home. In our case, Mondays are the only day of the week that we don't leave our house for a school activity of some sort.

I'm sure that there is a wide variety of methods of home schooling (some people probably spend a lot of time at home and others very little) but statements like this are just ignorant.


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## sherry in Maine (Nov 22, 2007)

why couldn't it be done? Gets done all the time. Home schooling families arent always 'off by themselves'. Homeschooling usually involves other folks, of all ages, including children, older children, adults of all ages . . .. All kinds of experiences throughout life, not just being with your peers. I swear, so many people would say to me-'dont you worry about socialization?' I got tired of it; I just said 'no, no, I let her out of the closet at least once a month'
Wonder why you'd think homeschoolers wouldn't socialize their kids beyond their own family?
What makes you think that their peers (in high school) would be some kind of example to use? ('like, ummmm, ya know, I mean, uhhhhh')


I homeschooled until my dd wanted to go to h.s. in 9th grade.
She had many friends prior to high school;was exposed to many different styles of communication. None of them had anything to do with public school.There are such things are homeschooling groups, field trips, church groups, etc.

Matter of fact, I think she is better prepared for the world and has a better attitude, communication skills and grasp because of her homeschooling. She is popular, level headed, smart pretty mature for her age (but still a teen!) and had a choice whether to return to p.s. That in itself separated her from her classmates. None of them homeschooled. None of them had a choice to attend p.s. or homeschool. Many of them are blase about their schooling, where from what I can see, she is self motivated, wants to succeed, doesn't just sit around with her arms hanging down by her side, waiting to be told what to do.
No, I dont think all publicly schooled kids are bad, or inept or immature or stupid. Public school is just one option. Parents can be good teachers, even better than a teacher with a class of 30 students.

If I am taking this the wrong way, please forgive me.


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## mommathea (May 27, 2009)

Ummm, Wow! I'm assuming that you have never home schooled, or know anyone personally who home schools. 

Unless the family is home schooling to avoid public contact..... you'd be hard pressed to find a homeschooling family who doesn't have extensive contacts with the 'outside ' world. 
Your ending question, assumes that home schooled children do not go to the grocery store, the park, the zoo, church, art clubs, sports clubs, the library, play dates, music classes, those who live in town your assuming that they don't play with the neighborhood kids, ect. 
Such statements and assumptions in your post are grossly ignorant.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

I question if the OP was just trying to start an argument....no one could be that ignorant of homeschooling to think our kids don't have contact with others outside of the family.


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## Jakk (Aug 14, 2008)

I'd like to reply to this question because I get the socialization question a LOT. 

My 14 yr old daughter is more socialized now then when she was in PS. In PS she had ZERO friends. This is after being with the same kids from 2nd-8th grades. When I pulled her from school she began to socialize with a wide age range of people, not just kids. She is on a HS field hockey team and guess what.. she made friends with one girl on her team. This is a big deal because she doesnt let herself get close to anyone. 

We belong to the local HS co-op and she feels comfortable raising her hand in class because there are only 7 other kids in the class. Big difference from the average 18-20 in her PS classes. For MY daughter, HS works. We belong to a huge HS group that is very active. Like another poster said, we spend more time in the car going places, mainly with other families from our HS group. I have taken her to just about every state on the East Coast, she has been to China and in the fall we are going to Mexico to study the Mayan ruins. 

A few weeks ago we decided that studying the American Revolution from a book wasnt enough. We got in the car (with a days notice.. you can do that when the world is your classroom) and drove 600 miles to Camden, South Carolina to walk on the battlefields ourselves. 

Now my younger daughter is a different story. She wants to go to a "real" school. She loves being with other kids ALL the time. She is also very indepedent and mature for her age. I probably will not send her to PS though for selfish reasons.. I love being with my kids. 

I do see your point about the words/gestures/facial expressions/body posture/tone of voice we use to communicate that is prevelant in schools...... and I dont like it. If I wanted to teach my child to use swear words, look like a clown with a ton of make up and show off her navel or butt crack I would have kept her in PS school.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Yikes! I did not say anyone is not doing this. I simply stated it was important. Give me a break! If the information I gave does not fit you, that is ok. It just might be useful to someone else.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Do you honestly think there is a single soul who is home schooling that _hasn't_ considered the socialization issue?? :nerd: 

That's one of the first things we run up against from family, friends, spouses, etc. It's the most common criticism of homeschooling. There is a reason you got so many responses so quickly-- Because everyone runs into this one ALL THE TIME!


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

ErinP said:


> Do you honestly think there is a single soul who is home schooling that _hasn't_ considered the socialization issue??
> 
> That's one of the first things we run up against from family, friends, spouses, etc.


No kidding. Not to mention random strangers, people you meet a parties, sales clerks and waitresses when you are out during the day, etc. 

*To the OP*: Do you homeschool your kids? Because, if not, your advice is sort of out of place, no matter how well-intentioned. 

Most homeschooling families will agree that giving children the opportunity to *socialize* with other children is important. But traditional school is, by no means, the only or the best place for children to socialize. In fact, there is very little time for kids to actually socialize during a typical school day. 

Remember that up until the last 100 years or so MOST children were not educated in an institutional school setting, and yet they were able to learn social norms and gain "communicational education" despite this fact.


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

All our kids are homeschooled, none of them have ever even seen the inside of a public school. But honestly, my kids are very outgoing with other children. Some more than others. They do have their different temperament types. But it just amazes me that people think that kids are "missing out" on something by not going to public school and being picked on, criticized for being different, dealing with little girls and their clicks and fickleness. I can't say there is anything about school age kids that in any way, shape or form resembles the adult world. shrug


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

You know, I honestly thought we were beginning to get beyond this level of ignorance when it comes to what home education really is.

To the OP: Please don't buy into this sort of ridiculous misinformation when it comes to home education. I have spoken at home education conferences for ten years, and I've met a broad range of home educators from all over the world -- trust me when I say that the VAST majority of us have considered, in detail, what our children require in order to attain proper social skills.

Just because we don't agree with the portion of our society that believes a child has to spend seven hours a day in a room with one adult and thirty other kids just as ignorant as they are in order to learn those social skills doesn't mean we're not INTIMATELY aware of the requirements.

I am the proud parent of 16 and 14 yo boys who have traveled the world, have had real conversations with people from many different walks of life on real issues, and are perfectly comfortable interacting with others, no matter how like or unlike themselves they may be. My experience in home education tells me that we are not unique; as a matter of fact, we're the norm.

This opinion about how home educated children lack the opportunity for social development is born purely from a lack of knowledge of what home education really is. Buying in to the belief that home educators are all xenophobes, or something close to it, promotes the belief that our children are "missing out" socially. It's based on erroneous assumptions, and is, quite simply, wrong.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Unfortunately predjudice is encountered on both sides of this argument- those who homeschool and those who don't both have misguided points of view- as evidenced in this thread...


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## HouseBunnyMomma (Apr 7, 2010)

I wonder what the OP's intention was. I really like the responses though, you seem really cool with great points. I hope to have kids and then home school them. I would want more for my kids than to be like everybody else, so I'm not afraid to be different. When I was in school the good socializing part was after school with my friends, and I would have had more time to do that if it wasn't for homework.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

We have 2 kids in PS and one kid who does 'virtual school', so we are different than most 'home schoolers' in that way - but I'll try to answer the question in the original post:

_In home schooling it is important to get beyond "family" methods of processing communication in order to "teach" the child. Can parents & syblings truly do this at home? _

Frankly, the first answer that came to my mind is "why on earth not?"

Now, our family does have some very peculiar turns of phrase and so on that we use amongst ourselves - it's like a 'family dialect' and we have fun with it. My sister says it is a tribal identification thing.  Do my kids use our silly household vocabulary with non-family members? Nope. Not even the little ones do (the kids are kindergarden, grade 2 and grade 8). They instinctively 'get it', that this is family dialect, 'home' talk. 

Regardless ... CAN we teach them to communicate effectively with the larger world?

Well, again, why on earth not?

I'm a functional adult with a full time job. So is my husband. We have lots of practice with 'real world communication'. And, we make a conscious effort to help our kids learn how things go 'in the big world'. You want a pet? Okay, let's have a family meeting and you present your case to the family, just like you would if you had an idea you wanted to present to the boss at work. You're only five, so we'll take it easy on you, but you need to prepare your case, answer our questions and possible objections with courtesy and clarity, and then we can go forward. Yes, you're talking to your family - but it's practice for the Bigger World. That's what learning is for, right?

You want to buy a big ticket toy of some kind? Okay, write up a 2 page proposal explaining the pros and cons, your plans for financing the purchase, and your risk management strategy (if it is a potentially dangerous thing). Present your case in writing, as though I were the boss and you had to convince me (because honestly, I am, and you do). Then I may annotate your document with some questions and send it back for edits and further research, or we might just have a discussion. Sound like what happens at work? Well, it's how I have to do things at work ... that's why we do it this way at home. Good skills to learn.

In public school, the kids spend their days with kids who have a shared common experience - and then they get home and have to talk to people who *didn't* spend their day immersed in the same experience ... and they get stuck. We have actually worked with our PS kids to help them learn to "tell the story of your day" in a way that can be understood by someone who *wasn't actually there*. All the rest of the people they dealt with during the day *did* know what they were talking about if they said a half sentence like, "remember when Mrs P did that thing with the chalk?" It takes them quite the mind-shift to recongize that the people at the dinner table have no clue what they are talking about and they need to start at the beginning and include the relevant details for listeners who are not aware of all the context. That's what good speakers do: they make it easy for the listener to follow the thread of the conversation. And, it's a skill all kids need to learn - not just home schooled ones. 

The oldest boy is a teenager. We've had conversations about how his body language/intonation is screaming something profane and rude (regardless of how he may be controlling his actual tongue) and that he needs to correct his non-verbal communication as well. I think most PS teachers would simply be glad the kid was minding his actual tongue and let the rest of it go, so long as it was sufficiently subtle. But see, I'm his mom - and he's not getting that nonsense past me. I don't quite see how my intimate knowledge of my kid's body language (and my willingness to point out to him what messages he is sending - purposely or not) is detrimental to his socialization.

Really, what it boils down to is this: if I can get along in my office and in the world in general with my communication skills, why on earth would I be an ineffective teacher of communication skills for my children? 


I can't quite see what kind of response you thought you'd get to a post like this... but there's my two cents, since you brought it up.


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## jc12551 (Feb 10, 2008)

As a public school teacher whose DH homeschools the kid, I don't want my child to learn the types of interpersonal communication that I see everyday in my classroom. My child is only in 3rd grade but carries on conversations like an adult (often better than most adults).


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I can't understand how anyone can call what goes on in public school "socialization".


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## Quiver0f10 (Jun 17, 2003)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> You know, I honestly thought we were beginning to get beyond this level of ignorance when it comes to what home education really is.
> 
> To the OP: Please don't buy into this sort of ridiculous misinformation when it comes to home education. I have spoken at home education conferences for ten years, and I've met a broad range of home educators from all over the world -- trust me when I say that the VAST majority of us have considered, in detail, what our children require in order to attain proper social skills.
> 
> ...


Well said.


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## okgoatgal2 (May 28, 2002)

i would love to be able to homeschool my children. i share custody with their father and he will not allow it. sigh. so they are exposed to socialization at school. which includes, in the small rural school (175 kids max, prek-8) the two youngest attend: this year alone: 7th grader brought baggie of pot to school and showed to my 7th grade dd, who promptly turned her in. (they are still friendly, which says a lot); 6th graders talking about how many times they snuck out of their house to go to bf/gf house during the last week/month in the middle of the night; how many boys/girls they've "hooked up with" (my school only goes thru 8th grade); various uses of foul language that i didn't even know until i was much much older, much less use in front of teachers; 7th grader "came out" and announced he was spending the weekend with his boyfriend, with his mother's knowledge; kid that graduated out of our school last year od'd and almost died a few weeks ago; need i go on? oh. the there's the kid who asked, when he was in 5th grade if it was ok to have sex with a cousin. the 6th grader who asked if two minors could go to jail for having sex. hmmmm. socialization at it's best, no?
i won't go into the stories my older two bring home from their slightly larger high school. (about 150 kids per class) 
there is value in public education. lots of it. but it has gone too far toward the liberal end of make sure all kids have a "feel good" experience and too many parents have turned the raising of children over to the schools. it isn't the public school's job to teach kids manners, behavior, etc. it is the parents. unfortunately, too many parents are too scared of dhs and their kids to teach their kids how to behave properly, so we have to spend much of our day doing this. which is why we have so many negative socialization issues. 
i may have gotten off topic, but this is one of my soapboxes. i hate to see public schools touted as evil incarnate. i hate to see homeschooling touted as the saviour of childhood education. i hate to see public schools touted as the only route to education. i hate to see homeschooling labeled as abuse or whatever. some things work for some people and not others. i have seen homeschooling that was so ineffective it was abuse. i have seen public school go way down hill. i have seen the opposite. 
the bottom line is you as a parent have to do what is best for your family and your kids.


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Wow.....I thought everyone was over that one......


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## Cashs Cowgirl (Jan 26, 2006)

To the OP....seriously? Wow...you are quite behind the times. Most homeschooling families that I associate with are out and about, having interactions with people of all different ages. When our children enter college or the workplace, they will encounter people of all ages. I want my children to be able to converse with them all comfortably. They are able to do that quite well at 10 and 12 yrs of age now. Some of their friends that attend mainstream schools can't.


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