# Feed



## cowgirlone

I thought we could post what we use for feed.
Please no "My feed is better than your feed" posts. 
This is more of an information thread for new pig owners to check out what feeds are available and what feeds work for the rest of us.


I know folks use what is available in their area.
We feed a universal feed for all of our animals, horses, pigs, chickens, guineas, cattle, and sheep. We have it mixed by the ton. Each animal gets a certain amount WITH other things.....mineral/salt for horses, alfalfa, hay, hogs get scraps, chickens free range, etc..


Universal Feed
860lb. cracked corn
840lb rolled oats
300lb soybean meal.

The order yesterday came to $278.32....which included $20. for sacking into 100lb bags.
$8. for mixing and 4.30 for rolling.

This comes to $13.91 per 100lb sack. If I did not have it sacked or rolled, the cost would be $12.30 per 100lb sack, which has gone up in the last 15 years, but it's still working for us.  


Anyone else want to share their recipes?  Thanks!!


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## dezeeuwgoats

Alright - here goes:

I feed alfalfa pellets to the goats and cow. Bermuda/alfalfa blend pellets to the horses. All from the same mill, in bulk - they fill 1000lb bags, and the back of our pick up. 3600lbs came to $396 last week. Price fluctuates. 

Hubby is a landscaper and all non-poisenous trees, shrubs,etc are dumped in the back pasture for the goats, and the cow nibbles too. Being in Arizona, with only bermuda pasture - this is a great source of browse.

We feed rolled barley to the pigs, and it is also the grain for the goats on the milk stand. Barley is under ten dollars a fifty pound bag.

Piggies get all surplus milk, whey, and left over people food, fridge clean-outs, etc. This adds up to quite a bit, actually, as we milk ten goats, twice day and the will be adding NINE doelings to the milking string in a couple of months!

Niki


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## highlands

Pasture in the warm seasons
Hay in the winter
Whey
Excess Milk
Cheese trim
Spent barley from brewery (little, just started)
Pumpkins, sunflowers, etc in the late fall
Occasional bread

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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## Up North

Our hogs get: waste milk, cracked corn, alfalfa/hay, scraps.


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## diehard47

My four sows and 1 boar get sweet potatoes for 10months of the year,during July&August they get catfish pellet feed. Been doin it this way for two years and have not had any problems. In the future will give piglets the catfish pellets year round. They have a 1acre pasture to exercise in that connects to fish pont,so they get to enjoy mud year round.And they also get plenty table scraps the house holds in the family.


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## Ronney

Because NZ is mainly grassland farming, that's what my cattle and sheep get supplemented with hay over the winter months. The sheep won't eat hay as they have enough grass to carry them through.

Pigs - anything I can lay my hands on. I milk cows to feed the pigs but added to that are household scraps from 7 town residing families plus squash, corn etc from commercial growers when in season. This is all cooked up to a broth to which I add barley. When we kill sheep, I empty the paunch and all the guts are cooked to feed to the sows and boars. The sheep heads are skinned, cooked up with the pig food fed to the dogs. They also get kibbled maize, palm kernal and bran and molassas - the pigs that is, not the dogs!

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## Argent Farms

My pigs have free access to pasture, I try to improve it a little bit every year by randomly scattering different forage crop seeds in there. I supplement that with a mixture of 2/3 cracked corn and 1/3 spent brewers grains (wheat and barley). They also get a bucket of whey from the local cheese factory whenever I can arrange it.


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## Ebowhunter

Awesome! I know I have asked before and I know that the thread from the first asking was blown out by a bug or new software. This could be a sticky in all the animal forums.

Also, I have come to understand that the soybeans need to be roasted or extruded?


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## beeman97

we have pasture available for everything, we then supplly the hogs with 
2 tons of whole corn, 1000 lbs of freshly roasted whole soybeans, & after that is all ground here, we add fertrell hog mixture to provide the minerals & suppliments.
the cows, goats & poultry all get the same thing as above but we change the fertrell mix to a poultry mixture.
execpt for the poultry the other animals only get alittle of this a day 
& the hogs are only allowed to eat in the feeders for 45 minutes per day.
I came up with this time frame because i took the daily alotment of feed needed for a hog & put it in a bucket & watched how long it took 1 to eat it, i then added about 10 minutes for the compitition that goes on around the feeders which insures that they all get what they need.
We don't get the greatest of gain % on younger hogs because they need abit more feed to gain good , but we aren't really into the whole commericial gotta have it done in X amount of days thing.
All our animals get water from a natural spring & stream that runs through the property. 
I should also mention that all of our grains are Organic & the fertrell mixtures are also organic.
all of our grains are priced at market price for normal grain, so we are mixing our feed for about 50% less then the actual cost of organic feed purchased in bulk from any supplier in the country. our price per lb is also about 20% less then buying conventional feed by the ton from any supplier.


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## BobK

for the pigs we feed a mix of flour & cornmeal screenings from a local flour mill, a bit of sweet COB, and some soybean meal to boost protein....this is soaked twice per day to make their feed and supplemented with a mineral mix 3x each week.......


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## tinknal

First a warning. Be aware of salt. Excess salt can kill hogs! You can go well above the recommended rate, but you need to watch them and be absolutely sure they have plenty of water.

I feed Waste cheese (which I get from work for free) Waste cornstarch from a gummi bear factory (also free), and post dated bread (nearly free).

Besides this they get pasture, garden waste, kitchen scraps, and skim milk.

The only real cost for me is the price of the pigs as I buy feeders in the summer.


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## simplefarmgirl

well since we raise our own pigs, the piglets dont cost us anything. We feed brewery grains,pumpkins and anything I can get out of gardens and feed store has just givine me a load of pumpkins and squashes. We pick up bread from bread store at $20.00 a load we have a 1 ton truck we use for that, We have 3 restruant and 4 stores we pick up their scapr or left over food, not the left over of the plates, from the kitchens. We havent bought grain really in 3 yrs, they run on 5 acres of pasture we rotate every month, plus now I am milking 2 cows piglets get left over milk.


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## Ed Norman

We stole cowgirlone's recipe years ago and use 850 oats, 850 barley, and 300 soybean meal. We feed it to everything. It used to be $180/ton, sacked, but last time the price went up to $200. That was expected. 

We get the weaners in late spring and they get all garden scraps until fall and also love weeds that we pull. We give the grass clippings and some alfalfa once in a while. And all the feed they want.


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## Tam319

For our hogs we buy whole barley from our neighbour and grind it ourselves with soybean meal and stage appropriate mineral premix. Breeding stock get dry sow ration year round, which we topdress with a lactating sow supplement during lactation. My father-in-law owns a seed cleaning plant so we get excess grain from him (barley, wheat, pea screenings, flax). My hubby is a crop researcher and brings him extra of whatever hasn't been sprayed - barley, wheat, whole corn still on the stalk. We feed veggie trimmings and meatless table scraps.

This year we are hoping to expand our pasture so they'll be on clover over the summer and supplement with alfalfa hay in winter. We plan to feed all of our extra milk from our Jerseys and Nubians this year as well.


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## mwtslf23

Where does one find these ingredients in bulk?

Mike


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## JessieinMO

I get mine from a local feed mill. Not the feed store, they resell at higher prices with smaller quantities. I use the same basic recipe as cowgirlone but suppliment heavily with fresh things. I grow mangels (giant red and golden) as well as turnips, cabbage, field corn, amaranth, beets that are fed to the hogs. Of course they get all scraps and I have arranged to pickup leftovers from some local chinese restaurants. (Their favorite is fried zuchini by the way). Mine are on pasture so they get to eat a lot of different things but with all I feed I try to make sure it is natural. 

Jessie


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## ShyAnne

I need to make some changes! After reading what y'all do I am going to be visiting some local restaurants for leftovers,not the customers but the kitchens!
Right now I am using a commercial Sow 16% and a mash. I also give leftovers and scraps.


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## Deschamps_Farm

These are our first pigs (2 yorkshire tamworth mixes) purchased in June; so here it goes:
100lb ground/milled feed sacks for 15 dollars mixed at a local farm (Gibsons Farm in Kinderhook, NY 518-732-7537) which contains soy, corn, barley, oats, wheat & minerals. Our family & neighbors give us all of there meatless table & kitchen scraps along with 2 local restaurants. The only pizza place in town gives us all of the old dough and dairy products. Our whole neighborhood gives us their grass clippings and weeds. Another neighbor gives us her rotten apples! Since we purchased the pigs in June, we've only spent $30 on food, $25 for a bottle of Ivomec & $100 on 4 hog panels. The solar electric fence was recycled from our dogs as well as the xl dog igloo!

I'm really proud of us!


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## 3kidsomy

I get free bread, dried black eyed peas and produce each saturday from a food bank type place. I feed the bread as grain(1lb bread=1lb grain). I soak a 5 gallon bucket of peas at a time, and cook a big crock pot full over night for their dinner. I pick up a truck load of apples each week to feed(we pick up wind fallen or just ripe apples all over the place...bunch of food wasters around here) I also feed eggs from my chickens. I usually pour sweet potato soup or chicken broth on their bread, whatever i got from the food bank that week. Lately there have been more and more families at the food bank, so i have been having to buy animal racks of bread at a bakery outlet sometimes...it's 340-360 loaves of bread for $15.00. I also picked up 2 tons of free pumpkins yesterday from a pumpkin patch that were already in bins(yay no field work). I went from completely grain fed, to grain only in emergencies if there's nothing else to eat.


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## Gailann Schrader

All the hay they can eat (usually left over from what the goats don't eat), plenty of water, a "porkmaker" from the local feed mill (made for big pigs, but I'm using for the PBPigs), cracked corn, rolled steamed oats.

Leftovers (vegetables/fruits) and drops from the orchard.

I have yet to butcher, but the pigs are staying lean-ish currently.

I plan to train them to electric fence and then pasture them more extensively.

These PBPigs LOVE grass and such!


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## TomR

Okay, we just butchered our first three pigs. One pure Berkshire and two Landrace/Doric cross, all three barrows. They were on pasture the whole time they were with us. We still fed a 16% pig grower ration that we purchased from our local feed mill. They mix it there for people like us. The feed mill name is Agplus. I supplemented with 300 lbs of apples a week from an orchard just up the road. They were not too interested in grazing that much at first but after I started throwing the apples over the field they got to enjoy the snacks. I am not sure how much the apples helped on their feed intake because they seemed to eat the same amount each day whether they had apples or not. We purchased 3,350 lbs. of feed with a total cost of $627.64. Now that figure is a little high but we also were raising bred Berkshire gilt (due to farrow Jan 1st.) and another small commercial barrow that was given to us. I would say take $150.00 from the total feed and that will give you a approximate cost of $440.0 The Berkshire and one of the crosses were 245 lbs and the other cross was 260 lbs. That would be .88 cents a lb. in feed costs. Our total costs were close to $3.75 per lb. With all of this said we need to trim our feed costs. Now the questions.
1. What is a PBpig?
2. Can you use unconventional feed like restaurant scraps and still sell a pig or pork products from your farm?
3. Has anyone tried a forage crop like Johnny's seeds Laugh and grow? How has it worked out? Here is the site for pasture mix.
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/catalog/product.aspx?category=289&subcategory=717&item=236
Thanks,
Tom Rusinack
WWW.pondvuacres.com


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## RockHouseRanch

I'm so new at this and really have been concerned about the issue of feed. We're due to pick up our first pigs this week and will be keeping them in pasture/woods. The breed we're getting is supposed to be excellent foragers, and we were told all we had to feed them was corn. But in doing some reading I'm really afraid that that is just not enough. And what about minerals? Are they really necessary? I would much rather not use any kind of commercial mix/feed if at all possible. We have plenty of hay that we put up for the cows and I will be able to give them whey/leftover milk, but that won't be much. Anything else that I really need to be feeding them?


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## tinman1

RockHouseRanch check your pm sent you some info.


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## Ceres Hil

I am surprised no one has tried open pollinated corn....


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## JessieinMO

Besides all of the other things we feed, we also plant goliath silo field corn. It really produces for us. I do not know current prices, I bought a ton (literally) about 3 years ago and just keep planting it. Pigs and all other animals seem to love it. On a side note, my friends gave me half a pickup load of a hybrid type sweet corn (plants and all) and my pigs would not eat it. I do not know if it was a GM type or not, they just grew to much so I got some. Does anyone have a source for barley seed in Missouri?

Jessie
http://www.redwattlehogs.com


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## Country Bumpkin

we start ours out with corn chops and pig starter for the first 3-4 weeks, then they graduate to a mix of corn chops, oats and 12% creep feed as well as having green grass (late fall & winter they get fresh hay from the pasture). if they slow down in growth we replace the creep feed with small amounts of calf manna to get them back on track


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## crickett

I was wondering about baby cereal? It has been iron fortified. Will that harm the pigs any? I know I can't feed it to the chickens as it will kill them, but what about the hogs?


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## linn

I am feeding our piggy gilts barley and oats, soaked in milk with a little ground corn and soybean meal. They also get all the excess garden produce.


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## angelsprite

We feed our pigs a mix of oats, corn, and 14% horse pellet. Also a little hay, some grass, produce from the garden, but mostly weeds we cut and cart to them. They LOVE iron weeds and Amaranthus. They eat them like candy. They also love pig-weed, go figure! Since we've added weeds to their diet, they have grown a lot faster and they are just blooming in the appearance of good general health. I don't think we're likely to run out of huge weeds out here, so the pigs are a great way to make me cut the weeds. I just figure I have to feed the pigs and then I can get motivated to bother about clearing weeds.


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## MissyMoo

I feed my pigs and goats - alfalfa hay ($9.50 a bale right now from the feed store), grain (corn oats barley with molasses in it, which I pay no less than $12.40 per 50 pound bag for), any leftover veggies and/or fruit from my own kitchen - as I have them, and the pigs get a special treat now and then of a sweet granola bar (which they just LOVE). I am hoping to get a ton of cull yams soon (I have to call up the company and ask if they have any in). they sell the cull yams as livestock feed for $25. per bin. I have to load them in the back of our old minivan to transport them home, and then unload them into empty plastic barrels. A bit of work, but the animals sure love it. I can only get them in the fall. The horse just eats alfalfa with a bit of grain each day (about 1/2 to 1 lb of grain).


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## angelsprite

Missy,
That sounds like a really good deal on the yams. Well worth the extra work, I would imagine. Usually, we will get big loads of pumpkins after Halloween that we are generally given for free and all we have to do is load and unload. I don't know if we will get them this year, but I hope so. The pigs love them. We love them. I only hope we can find someone giving them away again.


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## MissyMoo

I hope you get your pumpkins. I was thinking of getting pumpkins as well but I am not sure how to go about it yet. My goats and horse, etc. especially LOVE the yams. They go crazy for them. The yams are very nice.....nothing wrong with them. I usually bring a few in the house for cooking and give some away as well  they are beautiful. some of them are really huge and some are tiny, so you get an assortment of them. I am going to call the packing company in the morning. :clap: 
My grandpa works for an onion packing shed and you wouldnt believe the amount of nice onions they throw away everyday (lots of different kinds, red, yellow, brown, white, etc). I remember a couple I got from him one time were as big as a dinner plate! wow!


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## Critter-Keeper

we have a yorkshire cross that we feed commercial mix feed as well as household kitchen scraps and cracked corn. Our goats/ sheep free range and receive supplement commercial lamb feed as needed... working on converting our back fields from soybean production to pasture for them and bovine in the near future- any suggestions on SEED please pm me! thanks... 
oh- and our chickens free range with some crack corn and BOSS and crush granite


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## sherekin1261

We feed our pigs a locally grown/locally milled pig ration that consists of oats and corn meal. They also have locally grown hay all the time now that its cold, and pasture during the warm months. We also give them all the produce/kitchen scraps we can tho we dont use any meat scraps that are from ruminants, just the poultry we raise. Im interested in hearing more about what others feed as we have heard alot of cons to feeding soy so have tried to stay away from it?

This is our first year raising pigs in the winter and so far.... all is well 

The chickens are on pasture. We do give them cracked corn in the winter along with minerals and grit. Same with the turkeys. Tho several of them tap at the back door every morning for their "goodies"...usually left overs from breakfast  What can I say? they are a little spoiled 

Shere


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## sherekin1261

Oh! I forgot to add.... definitely use a mill if you can over a feed store. We pay 10.00 per 100# of pig rations as opposed to 16.50 at the local Tractor supply. Plus if you can buy from a mill, you help support the local growers too  They will custom mix for us too if we order 1000 pounds or more... at no extra charge above the cost of the ingredients.

Shere
Crossman Family Farm


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## lonelyfarmgirl

We feed our pigs everything, and I mean everything.
waste milk, hay, millet from a bird seed plant, we get kitchen scraps that I pick up once a week from 3 local schools, we get apples and pumpkins by the tons from a few local orchards in the fall, any rabbits here that die or get chickens that get hit on the road, dead newborn calves from a neighboors dairy farm, we plant mangels and squash here for them, a little bit of cob corn, deer carcasses from the butcher down the road in late fall. In the summer, they get pasture, all the weeds we can pick, house kitchen scraps, and anything else we can get our hands on. They eat it all, and the meat we get is lean and delicious. For pigs, our goal is no out of pocket cash for feed. I would rather spend the time and a bit of gas money, nothing else.


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## Sbrock

Does anyone know how to calculate the total protein in the ration?


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## highlands

Perhaps you're looking to use the Pearson Square technique?

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/PUBS/LIVESTK/01618.html

You'll need the units and the component values which you can find either from your supplier or in standard tables on the internet.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
Save 30% off Pastured Pork with free processing: http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project: http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop


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## Emma88

So take pity on the lowly soon to be pig farmer. We live in Northwest Montana on ten acres raising chickens, geese, ducks and rabbits. We are looking into getting two weaner pigs this spring to butcher in the fall. Donât know what kind but they will most likely be a Yorkshire mix. 

Iâve been reading around this site, and many others, but have a few questions. Yes we are trying to get our hands on that book every one recommends âSmall Scale Pig Raisingâ, but it is currently out of the library and will be back in a few weeks. I like the idea of the âuniversal feedâ but how much are we going to go through? I know there are many factors as to what else we feed them. Our tentative plans of right now are a movable pen. We really donât have the funds to get the electric fence system we want, buy we figured a pen on skis could be pulled with the truck. 

Being so far north we donât have farms that grow much more than alfalfa and a few kinds of grain, so truck loads of pumpkins or yams are not in our future. We will be able to provide a large amount of veggies from our garden, all the hay they want along with the pasture grass/weeds, and maybe bread from an outlet. 

I know, I know, a lot of jaw wagging to get to a few questions right?! 

How much grain will two piggies go through, would it be worth it to buy a ton of the mix? 
Do the new weaners need some thing more, at first, then grain and scraps? 
Do we need to supplement with minerals/vitamins along with the grain?

Give me a few more minutes and Iâm sure I can come up with a few more questions. :kung:


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## lonelyfarmgirl

well, keep in mind that growing pigs need protien. the source is at your discretion. that is our biggest hurdle. you can feed all the apples and weeds you want, but they wont grow on it. not enough protein. 
we feed deer carcasses in the winter, and as much waste milk as we can get our hands on. they do eat some alfalfa hay, but again, thats only around in the winter. we still have a problem coming up with a decent summer protein source.


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## bigmudder77

there are a couple feed stores around me but there 50lb bags are almost $10 where as the sweet feed and cracked corn at the store is just a little about $12 for 100lbs so i get it there and mix it my self 

but this year im switching the feeds around and getting most from a farmer and mixing it at home in a grinder mixer i picked up and renting storage bins off another farm that isnt using them any more so its all pretty close to me and will save me a ton of money even paying rent on the bins vs buying every thing through the store or feed store so well worth it to me 

and hay i get right out of the feild and store in the barn same with straw best way to buy it one farm lets me have a couple loads for you helping unload the hay and straw the other is 50% off what he sells it for and the last i get 2 loads of hay for free for letting him use the hay wagons i have and plowing his drive ways in the winter 

so my hay costs is pretty low but i go through alot of it i like the round bales i got alot of the ones that were out side free this year and the cows eat them if i take off the top bad part but i cant store them and there $10-100 around here from not very good to great tight heavy horse hay stuff and the big squares are good also but again no way to move them around and not alot of room to store them 

but yes mixing your own grain is the way to go if you can or have the like feed store do it (grain mill what ever you wanna call it) and also buying bulk and not in bags saves money 

and most feed stores you tell them what you have or what you will be feeding and they can tell you how much of each they use for most people and if you dont like it you can change things around but most people use the same stuff around here and the feed places keep track of every thing 

but pretty much corn is the best to use for my feed corn is 50% soy bean 15% oats 20% wheat 10% and then all the over stuff is 5% (salt, bone meal, vitamins that kinda stuff)

and thats for a 2000lb batch when i was having it mixed by the ton 

another thing if you have a farmer that sells corn silage thats another thing that gets weight on cows and hogs also and works good and is some what cheap depedning on who is selling it


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## Lazy J

bigmudder77 said:


> another thing if you have a farmer that sells corn silage thats another thing that gets weight on cows and hogs also and works good and is some what cheap depedning on who is selling it



What??

Pigs don't have the enzyme system of the bacterial population to take advantage of the Volatile Fatty Acids present in fermented silages nor the high fiber.


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## Lazy J

bigmudder77 said:


> but pretty much corn is the best to use for my feed corn is 50% soy bean 15% oats 20% wheat 10% and then all the over stuff is 5% (salt, bone meal, vitamins that kinda stuff)


That ration contains approximately 14.7% Crude Protein and 0.71% Lysine while the Metabolizable energy content is very low at 1440 Kilocalories per pound of feed.


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## bigmudder77

i have had pigs for 10 plus years and have been feeding them that and all mine grow great and i have never lost one to this day even when one of them had piglets when it was -20 out side not one died and there pen has no heat its just enclosed at night 

so you can hate on my feed all you want but thats what i feed and it works fine for me 

they also get 3 times a year when i butcher chickens they get all there stuff i dont use there are around 140-145 i get 50 at a time but always have some that need to get thrown out (and they get them too yes chicken bones can be bad for them yes i have heard of people feeding pigs chicken bones and they die none of mine have died from any thing i feed them)


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## Lazy J

bigmudder77 said:


> so you can hate on my feed all you want but thats what i feed and it works fine for me


If if works for you then great, however since pigs don't have the ability to digest silage it is inappropriate to say to the world "Feed 'em Silage, It works great!"

Jim


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## bigmudder77

they root around in it and eat what they want and leave what they dont

and they dont get much of it just what the cows put on the ground and dont eat is less than a 5 gallon bucket a day for 15pigs dont think its gonna hurt them too much


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## PotBellyPigs

cowgirlone said:


> I thought we could post what we use for feed.
> Please no "My feed is better than your feed" posts.
> This is more of an information thread for new pig owners to check out what feeds are available and what feeds work for the rest of us.
> 
> 
> I know folks use what is available in their area.
> We feed a universal feed for all of our animals, horses, pigs, chickens, guineas, cattle, and sheep. We have it mixed by the ton. Each animal gets a certain amount WITH other things.....mineral/salt for horses, alfalfa, hay, hogs get scraps, chickens free range, etc..
> 
> 
> Universal Feed
> 860lb. cracked corn
> 840lb rolled oats
> 300lb soybean meal.
> 
> The order yesterday came to $278.32....which included $20. for sacking into 100lb bags.
> $8. for mixing and 4.30 for rolling.
> 
> This comes to $13.91 per 100lb sack. If I did not have it sacked or rolled, the cost would be $12.30 per 100lb sack, which has gone up in the last 15 years, but it's still working for us.
> 
> 
> Anyone else want to share their recipes?  Thanks!!


Well, my pigs eat grass, old bread, and silage corn(which was given to me).
The bread is $5 dollars a truck load(small Ford Ranger truck), the grass(and their roots) are free.
They seem to be gaining in size.
However these are Pot Belly Pigs.......


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## spurdie

Walter, how are your pigs liking the spent grain? Im a brewer so I have access to about a ton of it a week, but the pigs dont seem to like it.


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## PotBellyPigs

Lazy J said:


> If if works for you then great, however since pigs don't have the ability to digest silage it is inappropriate to say to the world "Feed 'em Silage, It works great!"
> 
> Jim


Interesting how I have heard this before, yet my grandpa, when I was a child used to herd his hogs into the corn field to "fatten up".......
Worked for him, and the hogs ate corn, cob and stock.

Greg Zeigler
Alger, Ohio


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## Lazy J

PotBellyPigs said:


> Interesting how I have heard this before, yet my grandpa, when I was a child used to herd his hogs into the corn field to "fatten up".......
> Worked for him, and the hogs ate corn, cob and stock.
> 
> Greg Zeigler
> Alger, Ohio


Hogging down corn is not the same as feeding a fermented silage as was suggested in the post I replied to previously.

One of the reasons farmers of old allowed hogs to glean fields was the poor job corn pickers did and the poor standability of corn in the past.

Were you to do the same with modern hybrids in the Cornbelt you would not fatten the pigs since there is very little wasted corn.

Jim


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## RW kansas hogs

Is there anything you put in your hog feed other than what you have posted above? Like minerals or any supplements?


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## blaineiac

Lazy J,
I'm feeding Corn, oats, soy: 16% protein and 1% lysine. ground to order and costs $155/1000lb. After reading many of your posts, Is this a proper ration for all stages, sow, feeder, grower?


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## rippdog

I am feeding right now cracked corn direct from a farmer who cracks it and we bag and tie it into 50lb ($11.75 a 100lbs) sacks and load. i then add (which i just switched too) Proleader non med by land O'lakes feed that has a 40% protein and minerals (could not find pig minerals in a bag here) and other things ($85. for 250lbs) and so i just add a small amount to the corn 8 to 1 or more for the little guys. i feed 2 times a day, enough that they have a little left when i feed again. I tried the stores who said the soup kitchen gets the old stuff and i was the 4th on the list and haven't had a call. they get there house filled w/hay grazer i get for $2.50 bale and good grass alfalfa hay at $6. a bale give a few flakes a week. its winter in colorado so not any produce now but next year hope to get more scapes from gardens etc. going to try the pizza parlor for scapes didn't think of that. this seems the cheapest right now. i will add soy to that some times. they get scapes from home and i cut tree branches for them too.


----------



## Vicki2x2

I will be getting pigs in March, a couple of pigs for my kid for 4-H and then some guinea hogs in May for myself. I have an opportunity to trade some stuff with a local farmer, he grows straw, wheat, soybeans and corn. I thought this would be a perfect opportunity to stock up some feed for the pigs. What would be the best feed to get?


----------



## TommyS

Being in Kansas and working in a flour mill has it's advantages, especially for a newbie hog raiser. I volunteer to clean up the feed shed and haul off all out of date retain samples. Also there are lots of wheat samples. The bake lab provides about a lawn trash bag of test bake bread daily too.
I have read that not having the right protein will cause slow growth or health issues....but I don't know if that will be a problem. Of course I'm only on my 2nd round of hogs and am raising my first 3 hereford gilts for breeding in about 2 months.
Anyone know of any disadvantages in feeding this way??


----------



## grandma12703

Question? We have a gilt our exchange student showed this spring. We are keeping her and need to switch her off of the expensive show ration. We have some sweet feed we feed to our few cows and horses, can the gilt eat that as well? I am just not sure. Information is appreciated.


----------



## rickfrosty

cowgirlone said:


> I thought we could post what we use for feed.
> Please no "My feed is better than your feed" posts.
> This is more of an information thread for new pig owners to check out what feeds are available and what feeds work for the rest of us.
> 
> 
> I know folks use what is available in their area.
> We feed a universal feed for all of our animals, horses, pigs, chickens, guineas, cattle, and sheep. We have it mixed by the ton. Each animal gets a certain amount WITH other things.....mineral/salt for horses, alfalfa, hay, hogs get scraps, chickens free range, etc..
> 
> 
> Universal Feed
> 860lb. cracked corn
> 840lb rolled oats
> 300lb soybean meal.
> 
> The order yesterday came to $278.32....which included $20. for sacking into 100lb bags.
> $8. for mixing and 4.30 for rolling.
> 
> This comes to $13.91 per 100lb sack. If I did not have it sacked or rolled, the cost would be $12.30 per 100lb sack, which has gone up in the last 15 years, but it's still working for us.
> 
> 
> Anyone else want to share their recipes?  Thanks!!


Question from ignorant future pigger : how much of a pig's ration can be potatoes ? I know it was done in this potato state of Maine.


----------



## rickfrosty

PotBellyPigs said:


> Well, my pigs eat grass, old bread, and silage corn(which was given to me).
> The bread is $5 dollars a truck load(small Ford Ranger truck), the grass(and their roots) are free.
> They seem to be gaining in size.
> However these are Pot Belly Pigs.......


What if the bread gets a little moldy ?


----------



## rickfrosty

Oh, & anybody mix in used veggie oil (fry oil) ?


----------



## CTFarmGal

That is fantastic! I am going to look into this at my local feed lot. There are so many "fillers" in the processed foods. The less processed the food, the better product in my opinion.

Thanks for the info. 
Bri


----------



## masawyer

We are wanting to get a couple of pigs so I have enjoyed this sticky. We have a lot of oak trees around the perimeter of our 3 acres with various 
weeds and tree seedlings. I have read that pigs like acorns. How many
would they have to eat to provide enough protein. Pardon me for my
ignorant questions. Would they eat the weeds and seedlings? We don't
want them grazing in the yard because I've read they root so much. 

I will be asking local restaurants, rest homes and schools for food scraps.

Thanks,

Marsha in OK


----------



## 1acrefarm

I feed alot of kudzu plus my dud eggs from incubator. I also move their pen around so they get plenty of grass. I occasionally throw them a handful of dog food as a treat as that was one pigs sole ration before I got him. I am still developing my feed list. Trying to keep everything as natural and free as possible.


----------



## kranac

cowgirlone said:


> I thought we could post what we use for feed.
> Please no "My feed is better than your feed" posts.
> This is more of an information thread for new pig owners to check out what feeds are available and what feeds work for the rest of us.
> 
> 
> I know folks use what is available in their area.
> We feed a universal feed for all of our animals, horses, pigs, chickens, guineas, cattle, and sheep. We have it mixed by the ton. Each animal gets a certain amount WITH other things.....mineral/salt for horses, alfalfa, hay, hogs get scraps, chickens free range, etc..
> 
> 
> Universal Feed
> 860lb. cracked corn
> 840lb rolled oats
> 300lb soybean meal.
> 
> The order yesterday came to $278.32....which included $20. for sacking into 100lb bags.
> $8. for mixing and 4.30 for rolling.
> 
> This comes to $13.91 per 100lb sack. If I did not have it sacked or rolled, the cost would be $12.30 per 100lb sack, which has gone up in the last 15 years, but it's still working for us.
> 
> 
> Anyone else want to share their recipes?  Thanks!!


Heres my latest reciept from the local Co-op Creamery


1000 lbs rolled corn - $129.50
600 lbs rolled oats - $75.00
350 lbs soybean meal 46% - $68.95
50 lbs High Swine Mineral premix - $27.25
Sacks 20 - $9.60

*Total $310.30 

$15.52 per 100 lbs.*
The 16% hog grower the creamery sells is $18.90 per 100 lbs

$3.38 savings per 100lbs versus buying the premixed bags.

or $27.08 savings per pig (@ 800lbs feed per)

FWIW


----------



## Lazy J

kranac said:


> Heres my latest reciept from the local Co-op Creamery
> 
> 
> 1000 lbs rolled corn - $129.50
> 600 lbs rolled oats - $75.00
> 350 lbs soybean meal 46% - $68.95
> 50 lbs High Swine Mineral premix - $27.25
> Sacks 20 - $9.60
> 
> *Total $310.30
> 
> $15.52 per 100 lbs.*
> The 16% hog grower the creamery sells is $18.90 per 100 lbs
> 
> $3.38 savings per 100lbs versus buying the premixed bags.
> 
> or $27.08 savings per pig (@ 800lbs feed per)
> 
> FWIW


Does the bagged hog grower contain any added fat?

The recipe you have according to my formulation program contains about 16% Crude Protein and 0.84% SID Lysine. The biggest problem is the low energy (1400 ME and 1065 NE). If there is no phytase in the ration the AVaialable Phosphorus might be a tad low.

Jim


----------



## kranac

Lazy J said:


> Does the bagged hog grower contain any added fat?
> 
> The recipe you have according to my formulation program contains about 16% Crude Protein and 0.84% SID Lysine. The biggest problem is the low energy (1400 ME and 1065 NE). If there is no phytase in the ration the AVaialable Phosphorus might be a tad low.
> 
> Jim


Jim,

The bagged hog grower is ground corn, soybean meal and mineral mix. no added fat. 

http://www.thepigsite.com/articles/3/feed-and-nutrition/2571/oats-in-swine-diets

We pasture our hogs and they also get eggs, veggies etc. We usually have excess of something at any given time that we give to the pigs but not the same thing consistently.


----------



## oink

Jim,

Please comment on the difference of available protein in barley when it is 1)soaked, 2)boiled, 3)rolled or 4)ground....and what is a balanced % of diet when part of mostly goat's milk & 16% ration....Thanks


----------



## mtm8878

cowgirlone-

I was wondering how much Universal Feed you feed your pigs from purchase to butcher? What "other" things do they get?

How much do you feed meat chickens (CornishX)? Layers? What "other" things.

What about horses? 

I am intrested in feeding that feed, but need to know more specifics than are provided in the post. 

THANKS!!


----------



## Mainelyhappy

Two weeks ago I bought my first two piglets. I have read every post on here, thank you all! My neighbors and co workers are bringing me "goodies," (left overs, stuff from the 'fridge when it is cleaned, etc.) The pigs are in a 90x 90 pasture with a boggy area to wallow in and lots of grass. They get eggs from the chickens and ducks and a little less than a quart of goat milk per day, along with "pig food." My question: if the leftovers from my kitchen and the neighbors contain a small amount of meat, is that bad? 
Thanks for your help! 
Daryl in Maine


----------



## TimG

Mainelyhappy said:


> Two weeks ago I bought my first two piglets. I have read every post on here, thank you all! My neighbors and co workers are bringing me "goodies," (left overs, stuff from the 'fridge when it is cleaned, etc.) The pigs are in a 90x 90 pasture with a boggy area to wallow in and lots of grass. They get eggs from the chickens and ducks and a little less than a quart of goat milk per day, along with "pig food." My question: if the leftovers from my kitchen and the neighbors contain a small amount of meat, is that bad?
> Thanks for your help!
> Daryl in Maine


I sure hope it's OK, my two pigs just love themselves a little pork fat.

Tim in Maine


----------



## FarmerDavid

I know they like acorns, however my acorn supply is not where my pigs are. Leaves seem easier to pick up then acorns, are oak leaves a decent food stuff?


----------



## SueMc

I plan on asking for or buying the cider leftovers from a local orchard. If I'm lucky and get a lot of apple pulp, is there a limit on what I should feed? If I get large amts should I refridgerate it or can it sit and maybe ferment somewhat before it gets fed?
Thank you


----------



## Boisse

our pigs get
rolled barley
ground wheat 
oats
a soy protein pack


----------



## StayPuff

masawyer said:


> We are wanting to get a couple of pigs so I have enjoyed this sticky. We have a lot of oak trees around the perimeter of our 3 acres with various
> weeds and tree seedlings. I have read that pigs like acorns. How many
> would they have to eat to provide enough protein. Pardon me for my
> ignorant questions. Would they eat the weeds and seedlings? We don't
> want them grazing in the yard because I've read they root so much.
> 
> I will be asking local restaurants, rest homes and schools for food scraps.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Marsha in OK


Just remember, there is a difference between restaurant table scraps, and restaurant kitchen scraps. If you get table scraps, you MUST boil it to remove pathogens and other bad stuff. If I was doing that, I would boil ALL of it. There really is a serious risk involved.


----------



## StayPuff

Here is my hog feed mix that I use. I adjust the amounts to change the protein level for their appropriate weight as they grow. I also get my sacks free, as long as I bring the old ones back without holes in them:

Corn
Toasted Bean Meal
Whole Oats
Black Sunflower
Alfalfa Pellets
Mineral mix
$15 grind charge (everything ground together)

Last time I bought feed (two weeks ago) I paid .23 cents a pound, including the grind and sack charge. Feed has gotten really high.ig:

I have an Excel spreadsheet calculator that I made a while back to quickly help me calculate protein percentages. If anyone wants a copy of it, just send me a message and I'll email it to you.

I also calculated cowgirlone's feed mix, and it averages out to be around 15.5%, if anyone cares to know. I would say that is definitely a good all-round feed. However, some say they use a mix like this for their horses too, but IMO, I would avoid feeding bean meal to horses. Really though, unless your working your horses hard, they don't need grain at all. Good quality grass/alfalfa mix is all they need, along with constant, or near constant turn-out. If I needed to feed grain, I would just use a corn and oats mix in small amounts. Say, about a pound or so in the evening after they've had time to cool down. Just my opinion... everybody has their own way of things.


----------



## Rustaholic

Do any of you know about feeding comfrey to pigs?


----------



## StayPuff

Rustaholic said:


> Do any of you know about feeding comfrey to pigs?


I think someone has a thread for that. It's an old thread, but might contain something useful to you. If you want to check it out: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/pigs/75990-comfrey-pig-feed.html


----------



## Rustaholic

StayPuff said:


> I think someone has a thread for that. It's an old thread, but might contain something useful to you. If you want to check it out: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/pigs/75990-comfrey-pig-feed.html


That does not seem like a good idea.
I believe I got the urge to feed Comfery from the same book as the OP of that topic did.


----------



## kycn

Just found a source for brewers grain, should be pretty cheap. Anything I need to know before feeding it to the pigs? Thanks


----------



## northeastcallin

I feed my 5 gilts brewers grain from a small batch brewery here in ct. They wolf it down, but since I've switched them off of bags of grain they have only been gaining a third of the weight. I also feed them fish remnants from a local fish market, with plans to take them off the fish 6 weeks before butchering. I've tried getting bread from local bakeries, but the only ones who have opportunities open are always cleaned out before I can get there. Been thinking of buying a ton if cracked corn for the extra calories along with the brewers grain. I also supplement with some minerals. 

Anyone know of a responsible bulk feed place in CT? We like to get everything locally. The only place I know of so far is CCC up in Manchester.


----------



## red dog

they like lobster and crab body's and restaurant scraps also blue seal pig and sow and coarse 16 sweet feed.this is our 2nd year going to try apples just before we kill em


----------



## feeddixiefarm

We are going to try to grow as much of our feed as possible. Storage is an issue though. We don't have a grain dryer and have heard about wet storage/silage for corn, milo, or wheat. I read in this thread and elsewhere differing opinions on whether or not pigs can digest grains stored this way. Has anyone stored wet grains in plastic drums? Any suggestions on how to set up such a process?


----------



## Jhammett

I use crim corn/milo mixed with a 5 to 1 ratio of Soybean meal. I was told that would make a 16% protien mixture. Not sure how its doing. Some pigs look to be growing others seem not. I have 8 pigs. I just bought a 3K pride of the Farm feedeer but cant find a bulk feed provider in my areaa so im stuck mixing a drum at the time every week


----------



## highlands

If some are not growing have you tried deworming? Fecal test?

Another possibility is that some are hogging the feed and keeping the non-growers from getting enough to eat. Divided feeders can help with that. Another solution is setting up a creep if the size differences are significant enough to allow that.


----------



## Greyrooster==

Everyone has me beat. I haven't purchased any feed for hogs in years. I do plant my pastures twice a year and provide mineral which they never seem to touch.


----------



## highlands

kycn said:


> Just found a source for brewers grain, should be pretty cheap. Anything I need to know before feeding it to the pigs? Thanks


The brewers grain is high in fiber, minerals and protein depending on the source and basically empty of calories since that is what the brewers are taking off to feed their yeasty beasties to make alcohol.

I have read some reports that the corn based distillers grains can cause some problems with the resulting fat on the pigs. We get a little of the barley based spent material and have seen no problem from that. However we also don't get all that much so like with many things it may be a matter of over feeding any particular food source that causes a problem.

When feeding I would suggest mixing it with other things like hay, spreading out the feeding of it, etc so they don't eat it in big clumps. If they do eat large amounts at once then it passes through them in large clumps and they don't get as much value from it.

The one thing to beware of in warm conditions is that it can go bad. If it is just a thin mold layer on the top then that is not a big deal but an entire barrel can get quite nasty in the heat. Feed it out quickly. This balanced with the above note about over feeding means one needs to balance the number of animals to the volume of spent grains.

Chickens also love it.

See:
http://sugarmtnfarm.com/2012/03/09/feeding-barley/
http://sugarmtnfarm.com/2011/12/26/boiled-barley-2/
http://sugarmtnfarm.com/2008/02/24/piglets-on-barley/

Note that spent barley or other distiller's grain is not to be confused with raw grains of the same type. The stuff that has been through the brewing process is cooked and thus more accessible. That which is hard tends to just pass right through the pig thus requiring some form of processing which is what pelleted feed does. On the other hand, if you feed whole grain to your pigs your chickens will love following them!


----------



## lbuxbaum

Hi - we just got pigs and have been feeding them a 16% organic dairy pellet plus veggies, bread, milk, whey and all the weeds they can eat in our garden. I was wondering - I feed our goats a custom grain mix of 3 parts oats, 3 parts barley, 1 part alfalfa pellets, 1 part black oil sunflower seeds, plus molasses. I see that many of you feed your pigs whole grains. Cold I use this mix for the pigs as well? What do you think?


----------



## StayPuff

lbuxbaum said:


> Hi - we just got pigs and have been feeding them a 16% organic dairy pellet plus veggies, bread, milk, whey and all the weeds they can eat in our garden. I was wondering - I feed our goats a custom grain mix of 3 parts oats, 3 parts barley, 1 part alfalfa pellets, 1 part black oil sunflower seeds, plus molasses. I see that many of you feed your pigs whole grains. Cold I use this mix for the pigs as well? What do you think?


IMO, what you're feeding them now is fine, especially if you don't drop the milk and whey to keep the protein a little higher while they are still young. But that is fine. As for your goat mix, according to my calculations, that comes to about 12.8% protein. That would be a little light in protein for your hogs if you're trying to grow them in the standard time frame. If you were to continue feeding milk and whey along with that mix too, you should be fine though. When I feed hogs for slaughter, I start them around 19% and begin backing them down to around 14% when they get close to being finished. But you know what? If you have to be cost conscious, you feed them what you can get and when you can get it...as long as they will eat it. :thumb:


----------



## StayPuff

One more note: My mother feeds her hogs whole corn soaked in goats milk. The important thing, is the soaking. She has always had dairy goats, and milks morning and night. So the milk she pulls in the morning gets put into the corn to soak for the evening feed, and the evening milk gets put into the corn for next mornings feed. She keeps a little hay for them to have something extra to eat, but this is all she uses and grows them very well this way.


----------



## lbuxbaum

Thanks, that's helpful. I don't havbe a consistent supply of milk and whey - only milking one goat right now and she's probably drying off. What if I upped the alfalfa and BOSS proportions?


----------



## WadeFisher

kycn said:


> Just found a source for brewers grain, should be pretty cheap. Anything I need to know before feeding it to the pigs? Thanks


Finishing Hog Feed from 170lb to 270lb; (strait Yorkshire)
I mix my *brewers grain* 50/50 (by volume, not weight) with a corn/alfalfa hay/soy meal/vitamin Grind and Mix batch from my relatives farm. His grind is 13-14% protein, the brewers grain is much higher. 
5 hogs on a 3 acre pasture mix of grass, nut bearing trees and planted turnips.
*They only get 2 - 5 gallon bucket full of the grain mix a day*total, not each. They forage for all the rest of their intake. Or if we have special treats from kitchen type scraps, which they love. They are growing very fast. They will be on target to butcher November 1st as 250lb plus. I think they will go 270.
I bought them as 50lb feeders early June.

Started first month on commercial 'pig starter' unlimited.
At about 75lb I put them on the Mix and Grind mix mention earlier with enough soy flour added to get it to 16-17% protein. Mostly unlimited. If I had the time i would feed morning and evening so they would go forage more. If not I just filled the self feeder.
Now that I see how well they finished on limited processed feed the next batch will be put on limited feeding way earlier. 

Back to the *Brewers Grain* mine do not like it strait. Unless you dump some beer tank draining on top of it. Yes I raise _BEER BACON_ I own a nano brewery. But what they like even better and this is available at your local brewery is the Yeast Dump. And it is packed with all kinds of good stuff. If you look at the ingredients on commercial mix's you will most likely find "brewers yeast". So when at brewery ask to get any yeast they are going to dump. I feed it to my Cows and Pigs. Keep it in the fridge and give some daily!
Also; get your *Brewers Grain* fresh and keep it cold, they (pigs) don't like it when it starts to ferment. But the cows love it fermented. I even put 5 gallon buckets of Brewers Grain in the freezer to hold it, just take it out a day ahead to soften.

The bulk of the brewery grain from my brewery is fed to my beef cows. I have more of them and they are 800-1000lb each right now. But they follow a similar approach; mostly fed on grass pasture and supplemented with grain.


----------



## HerseyMI

Greyrooster== said:


> Everyone has me beat. I haven't purchased any feed for hogs in years. I do plant my pastures twice a year and provide mineral which they never seem to touch.


I bet you spend a small fortune on specialty seeds and grasses, fuel etc. So maybe you have all of us beat on how much you spend on feed?


----------



## Greyrooster==

I don't feed anything. My hogs are on pasture 12 months a year. I plant for summer and fall and again for winter and spring. My only cost is diesel fuel, fertilizer and lime. Pastures have improved so much I will soon be able to skip the fertilizer. I do purchase various seed from a large farm supply at greatly discounted prices. I never feed corn, wheat or soybeans.


----------



## HerseyMI

You are still holding back. How many pigs, number of acres worked... and how many pounds of specialty seed per acre? There isn't a lot of nutrition in a radish... but even deeply discounted the seeds aren't going to compare to traditional feed seed.

I understand your main business is cattle so cost for your pigs is an afterthought probably. Still costs all in all.


----------



## Lazy J

Greyrooster== said:


> Pastures have improved so much I will soon be able to skip the fertilizer.


Can you expand on this? Removing nutrients from the soil whether as grain, beef, or pork should require some sort of replacement.


----------



## HerseyMI

Manure from his pigs and any vegetation they might not eat improves soil. Our soil is light but over the last two years it has really started getting dark and holding moisture better.

But, I think planted crops remove about the same so his soil may hold a balance now?


----------



## hosscartwright

16% pig and sow, soaked cracked corn, and whatever table scraps we have.

Speaking of soaked corn, what's everyone's opinion on how long you can soak it before it goes bad... or will it ever go bad?


----------



## Greyrooster==

diehard47 said:


> My four sows and 1 boar get sweet potatoes for 10months of the year,during July&August they get catfish pellet feed. Been doin it this way for two years and have not had any problems. In the future will give piglets the catfish pellets year round. They have a 1acre pasture to exercise in that connects to fish pont,so they get to enjoy mud year round.And they also get plenty table scraps the house holds in the family.


I'm over on the Mississippi coast and have always wondered about planting Sweet potatoes and letting them root them up. Hogs grow really well on Catfish pellets. However since they cost me twice what hog feed does I'll keep using them in the catfish feeder. I turned some hogs into a pasture with a stocked catfish pond about two months ago. They cleaned in out and made it look pretty but sure muddied it up.


----------



## Greyrooster==

beeman97 said:


> we have pasture available for everything, we then supplly the hogs with
> 2 tons of whole corn, 1000 lbs of freshly roasted whole soybeans, & after that is all ground here, we add fertrell hog mixture to provide the minerals & suppliments.
> the cows, goats & poultry all get the same thing as above but we change the fertrell mix to a poultry mixture.
> execpt for the poultry the other animals only get alittle of this a day
> & the hogs are only allowed to eat in the feeders for 45 minutes per day.
> I came up with this time frame because i took the daily alotment of feed needed for a hog & put it in a bucket & watched how long it took 1 to eat it, i then added about 10 minutes for the compitition that goes on around the feeders which insures that they all get what they need.
> We don't get the greatest of gain % on younger hogs because they need abit more feed to gain good , but we aren't really into the whole commericial gotta have it done in X amount of days thing.
> All our animals get water from a natural spring & stream that runs through the property.
> I should also mention that all of our grains are Organic & the fertrell mixtures are also organic.
> all of our grains are priced at market price for normal grain, so we are mixing our feed for about 50% less then the actual cost of organic feed purchased in bulk from any supplier in the country. our price per lb is also about 20% less then buying conventional feed by the ton from any supplier.


Mine are on pasture also. Before going to a 100% pasture method I purchased one of those high dollar stainless steel one ton feeders. Figuring I would fill it up and when they finish fill it again. Didn't work so well. Hogs ate and ate and ate until I had fat overweight hogs. I swear some of them were eating 50 lbs a day. That was $12.50 per hog per day not figuring transportation costs. Stopped that in a hurry. Feeder is now used just to finish feeder pigs. Ya just keep learning and learning. Now I have hogs that can run instead of wattle.


----------



## HerseyMI

I use a 6 bushel feeder for feeder pigs and young breeding stock. It works great!


----------



## Jhammett

I am new to this my first time ever raising pigs and even selling them at $1.00 to $1.50 per pound of live weight I am likely losing my tail financially. ( at least that's what my wife tells me) 

I have been feeding a mixture of crim corn and milo mixed with Soybean meal at a ratio of 5 parts corn/milo to 1 part soybean meal. I was told that ratio would give me roughly 16% protein in feed.

Loaded the second set of three into trailer last night headed to market this evening Started with 8 pigs have 2 left on farm.


----------



## HerseyMI

I think your wife is pretty smart.


----------



## Jhammett

HerseyMI said:


> I think your wife is pretty smart.


I would have t agree with you. However this pig raising is a whole lot of fun. I m thinking I will regroup and raise a few more next year. Originally I had planned to keep a breeding pair, but decided to get them all gone and break down and rebuild pens fixing the things I felt were less than best this go round. It is hard to make adjustments with pigs in the pens ya know.

I just still don't feel like ive learned a lot still bumbling through. Don't want to go commercial just raising for myself and friends.


----------



## Jhammett

just got weights from the butcher pigs weighed 260, 265 and 285.


----------



## grandma12703

We feed a 10% all stock feed that costs us between $6.00 and $7.00 per 50 pounds. We add corn chop at 1 50 pound bag per 4 bags of all stock feed. They also are on pasture but during the snowy times like right now they get hay to supplement. The pigs get any leftover fruits and vegies which they love (no meat products). Chickens get a little chopped corn and they free range. 

We keep a goat/sheep mineral block out at all times. The animals all look healthy and seem to do great on this.


----------



## haypoint

I don't see much mention of minerals. If you feed hog feed (that has minerals) as only half their feed, they are only getting half the necessary minerals. Rooting in soil doesn't replace balanced minerals. 
When figuring costs, be sure to include the value of the manure.


----------



## highlands

Rooting in soil can easily provide all necessary minerals if you have good soil. Definitely get a soil test so you know. Selenium and iron are two things you want to look for. 

With zero commercial feed and commercial no mineral mix but on our pasture our pigs thrive so obviously they're able to get their mineral needs from the pasture and soil. We have good dirt as proven both by the soil tests and evidence of years of thriving animals.

In our case winter is the tricky time because we're raised up off the ground on top of several feet of snow. The dirt is frozen like iron. This is a problem in particular for the younger pigs, specifically weaners, shoats and growers who have lower reserves and greater needs due to fast growth. The winter hay we get from down valley is low in selenium which can be a problem if not accounted for. By diggin up a scoop of soil each time I feed a round bale that provides plenty of minerals for our pigs. Fortunately the soil under the hay bales is insulated by the bales and stays soft which makes this doable.

A good additional source of minerals is kelp but be careful not to free feed despite what some might advise because it has salt in it. One source is http://www.noamkelp.com/ which harvests kelp along the Maine coast. Their SeaLife Kelp Meal is Organic and they have a reasonable shipping cost.

There are many commercial mineral mixes too which can be bought by the pail and bag. If your local feed store doesn't have it specifically for pigs then check on line.

Be _very_ cautious about the sheep, goat and cattle mineral blocks. Many of those are designed specifically for those animals and have high salt levels which can kill pigs.

Cheers,

-Walter


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## barnbilder

I sure am glad that I read about feeding hay to hogs on here. They reach a point that they need something to keep them occupied, and corn/feed is an expensive pig plaything. Not that hay is free, but they do seem to stay satisfied longer when fed hay. I had tried it in the past, and it seems that they make a muddy mess out of it at first, and I usually gave up or decided that I had "the wrong kind of hogs". Let the cold weather set in and keep throwing them a little hay, and next thing you know they will be winding it in like a cow. Even "commercial" type pigs. A pig that is eating something, even if not getting much out of it, is a pig that is not destroying something.


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## NC_hobbyfarmer

If you are feeding your pigs, or any animal for that sake, byproducts from a grocery store, dairy, bakery etc etc wouldn't it be hard to consider your animals as being "organically" fed?


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## highlands

Rather depends on the grocery store and bakery.


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## KateMountain

barnbuilder -- I totally agree and have found that keeping pigs occupied, especially during winter, is invaluable. 

I like to throw a few handfuls of cracked corn into the snow just to keep them 'doing something.'


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## sandraandjess

It is very interesting reading all the variations of feed. I guess being in different countries would add to that as well. We try to be as free range and natural as we can with all our animals, (Horses, Sheep, Chickens, Ducks, Peacocks, Goats, Geese and now Pigs) One thing I find rather amazing being from Aussie land is that you guys in the USA can feed meat... That is a big no no here and quite illegal. We feed our Pigs on:

Vegetables and Fruit (Cabbage, Cauliflower, Pumpkin, Broccoli, Watermelon, Rockmelon, Figs, Apples, Carrots, Potatoes) that we get in bulk from our local green grocer each week.
Grain - Flaked Barley and wheat
Bread - Soaked in water or milk which we get large amounts of left over from the bakery each week.
Grass - Mostly Buffalo at will
And what ever else they root up in the garden


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## HerseyMI

Any scrap feed other than the scraps produced from your own kitchen table is considered waste garbage in Michigan. Any such waste brought in or delivered to your farm to be used as feed shall go through a controlled treatment operation, namely it shall be placed in spill proof containers and cooked to 212Â°F. That includes whey, baked goods, spoiled produce.... any waste except that off your own kitchen table.


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## gerold

HerseyMI said:


> Any scrap feed other than the scraps produced from your own kitchen table is considered waste garbage in Michigan. Any such waste brought in or delivered to your farm to be used as feed shall go through a controlled treatment operation, namely it shall be placed in spill proof containers and cooked to 212Â°F. That includes whey, baked goods, spoiled produce.... any waste except that off your own kitchen table.


In Mo. no waste or left over products from anywhere including my own kitchen scraps. There is a few companies within 50 miles that has left over cooked soup and veg. that doesn't pass inspection. Some people do feed their stock this stuff but i do not as i like to sell my pigs to the public. There are laws that state you can't feed your pigs this stuff if you want to sell to public or to big meat companies. I can't pull veg. out of my garden and feed it to the pigs. I can plant a pasture and pasture the pigs.


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## highlands

Someone just asked in another thread about what to plant in pasture and I want to include the list of links to threads on this thread:

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/pigs/508933-pigs-clear-land.html
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/pigs/509066-does-hay-make-sense.html
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/pigs/509066-does-hay-make-sense.html
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/pigs/508184-growing-your-own-feed.html
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/pigs/508502-new-rasing-pigs-pasture-help.html
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/pigs/507390-planting-ideas-low-lands.html
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/pigs/507888-help-new-pastured-pigs.html
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/pigs/505550-pasture-planting-no-till-%ages.html


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## kycn

I am not understanding how they can regulate something like that? The honor system? So if you have extra stuff out of your garden, you can't feed your pigs with it? That's outrageous!


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## gerold

kycn said:


> I am not understanding how they can regulate something like that? The honor system? So if you have extra stuff out of your garden, you can't feed your pigs with it? That's outrageous!


If you have a 200 plus pigs to sell and state man comes around and see you feeding stuff you are not suppose to feed you can't sell the pigs in the market where you want to sell. If the pigs are for your own use you can feed them anything.


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## hemlock hamps

I feed a 16% pellet about 4 lbs per day per sow or boar, free choice and pasture for feeders,after weaning sows get hay,sows with piglets 4lbs plus 1pound per piglet per day . Table scraps and garden waste when we have them. When it's really cold I throw a bit of corn. The thing about pellets if a pig drops a pellet they will pick it up mash winds up in the dirt. I am shipping feeders that dress 180 to 200 pounds in 160 days that's 250pounds live weight. Hope this helps Hemlock Hampshires


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## haypoint

hemlock hamps said:


> I feed a 16% pellet about 4 lbs per day per sow or boar, free choice and pasture for feeders,after weaning sows get hay,sows with piglets 4lbs plus 1pound per piglet per day . Table scraps and garden waste when we have them. When it's really cold I throw a bit of corn. The thing about pellets if a pig drops a pellet they will pick it up mash winds up in the dirt. I am shipping feeders that dress 180 to 200 pounds in 160 days that's 250pounds live weight. Hope this helps Hemlock Hampshires


That 160 days you speak of, is that from the time they are weaned, the time they are 40 pounds or from birth? 

So, your feeders have a 16% protein feed in front of them all the time, plus they can root around in the pasture as they desire. A sow with 10 piglets would get about 14 pounds of 16% protein feed, daily. After weaning a litter, sows get 4 pounds of 16% protein feed, plus some hay.

Your 16% protein pellet feed has vitamins and minerals added?


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## hemlock hamps

Sows get hay after weaning until they dry up, 250 pounds 160 days or,feeders free choice feed and pasture,


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## hemlock hamps

Yes a sow with 10 piglets gets 14 pounds a day i usually feed 3times a day


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## gerold

hemlock hamps said:


> Yes a sow with 10 piglets gets 14 pounds a day i usually feed 3times a day


My York sows with piglets get 12 lbs feed a day plus pasture and woods pasture. Switching to Hereford sows and going with pure Hereford and also trying Hereford/York cross. Hoping the Hereford sows will eat less feed when they have piglets. Will see how it works out.

Feed my pigs once a day.


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## HerseyMI

gerold said:


> My York sows with piglets get 12 lbs feed a day plus pasture and woods pasture. Switching to Hereford sows and going with pure Hereford and also trying Hereford/York cross. Hoping the Hereford sows will eat less feed when they have piglets. Will see how it works out.
> 
> Feed my pigs once a day.


Considering the same here. My herefords are very maternal with young pigs not their own. This year will be their first litters. I'm undecided on getting rid of my hamps though. The herefords do seem to gain more on less feed. Jmo...


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## Philosaw

hemlock hamps said:


> Yes a sow with 10 piglets gets 14 pounds a day i usually feed 3times a day



I'm new to you forum and have really enjoyed catching up. It's very informative as well as just plain interesting. My question is how much do you feed your sows when close to term? I have noticed that my Mangalitsa sow has a new interest in food that she hasn't had prior to now, compared to our other pigs. This started in just the last two weeks and she's due next week...I hope.


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## gerold

Philosaw said:


> I'm new to you forum and have really enjoyed catching up. It's very informative as well as just plain interesting. My question is how much do you feed your sows when close to term? I have noticed that my Mangalitsa sow has a new interest in food that she hasn't had prior to now, compared to our other pigs. This started in just the last two weeks and she's due next week...I hope.


Before sow has little ones i watch the weight of the sow. Don't let the sow get to fat. About 6-8 lbs. of feed per day is what i feed. I don't think a little extra feed in the last week would hurt. When she has her pigs she may not eat for a day or sometimes longer depends on the sow.


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## highlands

Philosaw said:


> I'm new to you forum and have really enjoyed catching up. It's very informative as well as just plain interesting. My question is how much do you feed your sows when close to term?


Free fed pasture/hay + dairy which is mostly whey. This is a fairly low calorie diet so we never have fat pigs. On a high calorie diet like corn/soy you may want to watch their condition carefully and back off the calories if they're getting fat as that can interfere with both lactation and farrowing.

If you're feeding commercial feed then go to the sow feeds and on the bag you'll find recommendations.


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## Philosaw

Thanks, that helps. Right now we're feeding commercial organic grower 16%, 4lbs/day, with goat whey and hay. Telling whether a Mangalitsa is fat or not is another thing...They all look fat to me!


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## slvr98svt

Hey guys, I am looking for some mathematical help for calculating some feed. I figured out how to use the pearson's square for doing corn/oats mix with flax and fishmeal to get rid of the soy and keep a 16% protein.

However I would like to throw in some wheat into the "grain" mix part which take it up to 3 parts instead of the 2 needed for the square. I'd also like to calculate in the Fertrell grower mix minerals.

Is there a formula to just put all the necessary info in for each ingredient or what is the case for more than 2 things?

Thanks,
-Matt


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## kycn

If I can't get my hands on any whey or something similar, what about buying milk and watering it down? You can buy a gal for $3 approximately, if you watered it down with a couple gal of water, 1 it seems it might be a similar consistency as whey and 2 have decent feed value for the cost? What do you guys think?


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## highlands

Around here the whole milk is about the same price as the skim milk so I would buy the whole milk for the extra fat. I would also yogurtize it. Just ad a cup of yogurt per gallon of milk, blend them together and let sit in a warm place for a couple of days. The dish water in the sink is good as is over the wood stove and in a vehicle in the warm months - three tricks I use.


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## kycn

Great thanks!


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## beauberkshire

Ive read all the posts in this thread but cant seem to find what people are planting in there pastures to have the hogs graze all year round. Thats what im looking to do. I live in north florida and have about 15 acres. What should i plant in the summer, winter?


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## highlands

Soft grasses, legumes, brassicas, millet, chicory, plantain, etc. We're in the mountains of northern Vermont so a bit different climate.


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## palm farmer

How far north?


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## highlands

If people can fill in their location and zone information that helps with these sorts of discussions. See the Location thread here:

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/pigs/505485-please-fill-location-info.html

For example, we're in the mountains east of Montpelier which is about midway up the state. We still have 3' of snow as of April 9th which is typical. Generally our snow melts by May. Zone 3. So in my location info I put:

Mountains of Vermont, Zone 3

which shows in each of my posts. If you were in Florida near Jacksonville you might put:

Northeast coast of Florida, Zone 9a

Something like that. This helps with context for discussions of things like forage types. If everyone would fill in their location that would would be great. If for some reason you don't want to put in that much detail (e.g., state) then please at least put in your USDA zone. See the link above and read through those posts for how to look up the zone.


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## jenrysdam

Hello everyone! I'm new here and from Northern MN. I have been reading on here and learning for a few days. Thanks so much for all of your experience 
I have a question about Pearson's Square. I entered in barley and oats, and each are approx. 12% protein. I want 20% protein for my new pigs. It says 8 parts barley and 7.7 parts oats will give me the 20%. I don't get how I can put in 2 things that are 12% protein and come up with 20%. Am I doing it wrong? Thanks!
Jennifer


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## jenrysdam

I found something online. Got it now.


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## njenner

We are feeding zucchini and butternut squash right now and some figs. We just went through about 100 pounds of oranges and grapefruit. They have free access to alfalfa and run on 1 acre of irrigated pasture with clover grasses and alfalfa. This fall I'm going to throw out some forage turnips, vetch, Essex rape, crimson clover and rye. Our winters are mild so the clover will pick up steam in the cooler weather. I planted oaxacan green dent corn but it's not ready yet. I'm not sure if I'm going to share it with the pigs or grind it for our own cornmeal. We don't buy anything except the alfalfa and they only eat about 1 flake a week so a bale lasts about 3 months.


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## haypoint

njenner said:


> We are feeding zucchini and butternut squash right now and some figs. We just went through about 100 pounds of oranges and grapefruit. They have free access to alfalfa and run on 1 acre of irrigated pasture with clover grasses and alfalfa. This fall I'm going to throw out some forage turnips, vetch, Essex rape, crimson clover and rye. Our winters are mild so the clover will pick up steam in the cooler weather. I planted oaxacan green dent corn but it's not ready yet. I'm not sure if I'm going to share it with the pigs or grind it for our own cornmeal. We don't buy anything except the alfalfa and they only eat about 1 flake a week so a bale lasts about 3 months.


Good job. That is closer to a real pasture for pigs than I have read in awhile. IMHO, people equate pastured pork with cattle or horse pastures. Not even close. Adding grains (yes, I know corn is technically a grass) and easily digested vegetables should get you to a point where you can cut back on the ground grains and still get good steady growth.


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## loggerbud

Does anybody have a recipe for 18 or 14 % hog feed


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## njenner

I scored about 175 pounds of fruits and veges from friends and a nearby fruit stand. Getting excited about free pig food probably means I'm a country bumpkin!


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## haypoint

njenner said:


> I scored about 175 pounds of fruits and veges from friends and a nearby fruit stand. Getting excited about free pig food probably means I'm a country bumpkin!


You are probably right.
But scoring a bunch of fruits and vegetables and getting excited as you work to create a recipe that you can add to this bounty to make it a healthy balance might mean you are an animal nutritionist. 
IMHO, any time you stray far from established balanced diets and it makes up a goodly portion of their daily intake, secure the help of a nutritionist. Often available from an Extension Office. Don't forget the minerals.


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## Muleman

Haypoint, Although I must admit, I often disagree with some of your assessments, I do give you credit for sticking to the same train of thought with your ideas, especially when it comes to minerals. I do believe it may be possible that there are some areas where most of the minerals are in the soil, I do not know how many areas have this condition?? I suspect not most, but maybe I am wrong? I do agree with you concerning store bought minerals. They are a very cheap way to insure your animals are getting all of the minerals they need, and I give mineral supplements to everything and provide these free choice where it is possible. An animals body knows when it needs something or something is missing and they will seek this out. I find when my mules run out of free choice mineral mix and salt, at first when I give them more they will visit the trough very often, then after a few days they visit less often. This tells me that they were indeed missing something when they did not have it available and as their need is meet they will simply quit eating it, until they need it again. I think a person could do similar experiments with other animals (pigs included) concerning minerals. If they are already getting all they need they probably will not pay much attention to the tub of mineral sitting there, once the new wears of, and you can quit offering it, or if they are eating it all, you know they are most likely not getting it elsewhere?


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## highlands

This is why I recommend people get a soil test. Our soil is different than the soil down valley. We're fortunate to have complete minerals in our soil. The farm we get our hay from is low in selenium. Knowing this I dig up scoops of our soil when I feed out round bales of hay in the winter so as to provide minerals during the winter to our pigs and chickens. 

If that isn't handy, another good source is kelp but beware the salt so don't free feed kelp and keep water available. Mineral sources are a tricky thing because so many of them have a lot of salt in them as they're designed for horses, cattle, sheep and goats who can tolerate, who even want high levels of salt. Those same high levels of salt can kill pigs.

-Walter


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## Muleman

Walter, brings up a good point for those who are unfamiliar with buying minerals. There are many different kinds, with many different ingredients, some have salt (usually the cheaper ones, which have a high salt content) and some are simply strait minerals with no salt, even in that, there are different mineral blends. Some mineral blends are also specifically blended to be feed at certain times of the year to deal with different levels of nutrients in local forages based on that area. Do not make the mistake of going to your local feed store and simply saying you want a bag of minerals and depend on the kid behind the counter to sell you what you need. Do some research, read the labels and know what it is you are asking for and getting. All bags of minerals are not equal!!


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## DEKE01

haypoint said:


> You are probably right.
> But scoring a bunch of fruits and vegetables and getting excited as you work to create a recipe that you can add to this bounty to make it a healthy balance might mean you are an animal nutritionist.
> IMHO, any time you stray far from established balanced diets and it makes up a goodly portion of their daily intake, secure the help of a nutritionist. Often available from an Extension Office. Don't forget the minerals.


Oh please. An animal nutritionist? If it is food fit for humans, it would be a very rare exception that it would not be fit for pigs. If this guy is running a Highlands sized operation, 175 lbs does not reach the noise level to matter one way or the other as far as affecting pig health. More likely this is a much smaller back yard operation and about the worst thing that reasonably clean food might do is MAYBE delay optimum butchering weight by days compared to a scientifically optimized feed. 

I think better advice is to not do a sudden 100% feed switch to any farm animal, including humans. Let them continue free choice with their current feed and include as much fresh stuff as they will eat in an hour or so. If the stockpile might spoil before it could be fed out, freeze it in daily sized portions. 

If we were talking about something we might not think of as people food (citrus peels and seeds are a local option for my pigs) and it was a long term, high percentage of the diet, I would agree that a serious look at the nutrition could be called for. But extension usually has already tested most of the local options and has info online. 

As with people, a diversity of food sources is a good way to go with pigs. Apples are good for pigs, but I wouldn't make it 100% or even 50% of the diet for months without university testing to know that it was wise. But I would not go to the expense to hire an animal nutritionist.


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## haypoint

Oh please? Really? I never said the load of fruits and vegetables was not fit for pigs. While I did not touch on it, one could assume that it was in some way not fit for the digestively similar humans.
I have no idea if he has a Highland's size operation, do you?
Pigs cannot thrive on a diet of over-ripe fruits and vegetables.
You seem to find my suggestion of trying to balance the hogs ration with the free help from an expert as foolish, yet you offer a suggestion that he fill the freezer with hundreds of pounds of cast off veggies? Do you think maybe he could cook it up and can it? A few hundred quart jars of peach succotash would be a tasty treat after the first snowfall.
You and I agree, don't hire a nutritionist.


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## linnell

We get grain from a local feed mill in Stuarts Draft,VA which provides us with non-GMO(not certified) feed for our pigs,chickens & ducks(layers & broilers). We supplement with:
goat whey from a nearby goat farm,over-ripe produce from a wholesale produce supplier in town,apples from a near orchard and apple pumice from a cidery. We have experimented some with drying the apple pumice we get from the cidery and mixing it in with the grain to help it last longer. I am also looking into feeding hay to our pigs for the cold months. It can be hard to find quality, "no-spray" hay around my area.


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## haypoint

linnell said:


> We get grain from a local feed mill in Stuarts Draft,VA which provides us with non-GMO(not certified) feed for our pigs,chickens & ducks(layers & broilers). We supplement with:
> goat whey from a nearby goat farm,over-ripe produce from a wholesale produce supplier in town,apples from a near orchard and apple pumice from a cidery. We have experimented some with drying the apple pumice we get from the cidery and mixing it in with the grain to help it last longer. I am also looking into feeding hay to our pigs for the cold months. It can be hard to find quality, "no-spray" hay around my area.


Couple questions.
What is in the non-GMO feed? Oats?
What are they spraying on hay in your area? Insect problems or are you talking about the vinegar they spray into the hay to prevent mold?


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## linnell

haypoint said:


> Couple questions.
> What is in the non-GMO feed? Oats?
> What are they spraying on hay in your area? Insect problems or are you talking about the vinegar they spray into the hay to prevent mold?



Our pig grain is: corn,oats,roasted soybean,diatomaceous earth,salt,fertrell brand nutri-balancer, and kelp.

I have asked the feed mill and they only buy grains from their families farms and never plant patented seeds. Now, cross contamination is always a worry, but we try to at least avoid the GM grains. 
We are also looking into cutting soy out of our feeds, it would be replaced with post-consumer fish meal from Terra Mar company. 

A lot of the hay fields in our area are "cut" with roundup. So, standing green hay one day, all brown and dried the next day or two. Then, they cut it and bale it the same day. I saw this happen around me and didn't understand and had to ask around and was told they spray it with round up so they can get it baled quicker and don't have to let it dry once it's cut for risk of it getting rained on. My husband is extremely allergic to round up and can not breathe for days if he's around it. Also, I'd prefer not to feed hay sprayed with herbicides to my animals.


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## haypoint

DE does nothing when used inside of an animal, nothing.
Most family farms use patented seeds. Most of them use GMO. But you may have a source. Trouble is, you pay extra for it and have no way to know if it is non-GMO or not.
There are required "buffer zones" around Bt GMO Corn. Cross pollination is rare.
Spraying a field with Roundup and then cutting it for hay is both illegal and foolish. I think someone is pulling your leg. It takes a week or two for Roundup to kill a plant enough to be noticeable and surely not dry enough to bale the next day, or two or week. 
I'm a proponent of Roundup, but only in reasonable situations. There is no way I'd feed my livestock hay that had just been sprayed with Roundup. I doubt that this happened but if it did, it was done by extremely stupid people.
You didn't just make that story up, did you, just to stir the pot?
The hog feed they sell in Stewarts Draft, VA contains the following: Corn, Oats, Roasted Soybeans, Diatomaceous Earth, Salt, Dicalcium Phosphate, Seashell Flour, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Menadione Dimetylpyrimidinol Bisulfate (source of Vitamin K activity), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Zinc Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate.


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## bigtuna

Our feed mix we get from a family owned facility that also has a dairy farm but its spent brewers grain, cracked corn, peanuts cashews. And cereal. They eat it up. Also add a loaf of bread. I was at the bread store talkin to this ol timer who was telling me he takes the old milk and keeps it in 5 gal buckets lets it stay outzide and curtle then mixes it with the reg feed and bread. Should a guy let it curtle?? Thanks guys


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## highlands

I would suggest adding a cup of yogurt to the five gallon pail, blending and then letting it sit to yogurtize. This is what we do but in three big 1,000 gallon tanks. Pigs love it and it's great for them. Milk, cream, cheese whey all benefit from yogurtizing. Yogurt whey already has it - different than cheese whey.

See: http://www.sugarmtnfarm.com/?s=yogurt

-Walter


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## FarmerDavid

I've found some popcorn that I'm using for non GMO corn right now. It's a pretty good price and they are doing well on it. I've found a certified organic source for soy meal, that's not nearly as high as I expected. If this popcorn option continues to be available it might be a better option then me growing my own non GMO corn. Ill have to talk to them in the spring before plantin ime to make that decision. 5 or so weeks before Butcher ill switch from popcorn to milo. Read quite a but that the milo adds sweetness to the pork. 

Highlands had asked me about silage in another thread. I found this link the other day that mentions silage at the end. http://extension.missouri.edu/publications/DisplayPub.aspx?P=G2360


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## FarmerDavid

haypoint said:


> There are required "buffer zones" around Bt GMO Corn. Cross pollination is rare.
> ]


Buffer zones? Never heard it termed that way and its incorrect, the refuge was never intended as a buffer. It was used as a method of leaving some insects to prevent the tolerance issues that were having with roundup resistant weeds. We haven't planted any refuge acres in two years its all RIB now. RIB is 5% refuge as compared to 20%. 

Whoever says they are cutting hay with glyphosate is plain nutty. Like hay point pointed out roundup doesn't kill over night and hay sprayed with glyphosate would make horrible feed, might as well feed straw. Gramoxon is a herbicide that you can almost see working before you leave the field, but is week on grasses strong in broad leaves. Still I'd question the hay quality. One of the things that made round up work so well is that it is absorbed slower and gets into the root system and kills the entire plant, or use to anyway, gramoxon works faster but works so fast it doesn't get fully absorbed by the roots and alot of weeds will come back.


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## haypoint

&#8220;In situations where desirable vegetation borders a targeted site, aerial applicators typically establish a buffer zone (a distance
between the site of application and area to be protected) to minimize effects to non-target vegetation.&#8221;
http://www.monsanto.com/products/documents/glyphosate-background-materials/gly_drift_bkg.pdf
&#8220;If possible, locate refuge plantings to protect potentially vulnerable non-host insects (e.g. Monarch butterfly). Refuge plantings can serve as buffer zones between the Bt cornfield and the habitat of non-target insects.&#8221;
http://agbiosafety.unl.edu/refugebuilder.shtml
&#8220;Since Bt crops are capable of season long expression of the Bt protein, precautionary steps have to be taken in order to avoid the development of insect resistance. In the US, for example, the EPA usually requires a &#8220;buffer zone,&#8221; or a structured refuge of non-Bt crops that is planted in close proximity to the Bt crops.&#8221;
http://www.isaaa.org/resources/publications/pocketk/6/
In my experience, buffer zones/refuge plantings were done along property lines to alleviate worries about pollen drift of GMO crops onto the crops of other's. Pollen drift is really a non-issue for 99.9% of the farmers that do not save seed. That practice went out of favor 60 years ago. 
"You see, popcorn is a crop that is heavily covered in pesticides, insecticides, herbicides, fungicides, and fertilizers"
http://www.growingupherbal.com/qa-is-popcorn-gmo/
It is a free country, but I choose Bt Roundup Ready crops over crops 
heavily covered in pesticides, insecticides, herbicides, fungicides, and fertilizers as is commonly believed.


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## FarmerDavid

Refuge planting can be used for a buffer zone. A buffer zone is not required, refuge is required. You incorrectly refered to refuge as a buffer in your origional post. As I also previously posted its almost all now RIB which requires no special refuge considerations.


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## FarmerDavid

As for the pop corn link you provided, my non GMO #2 yellow field corn I'm growing is also sprayed with chemicals and insecticides, my product is labeled as non GMO, not organic.

On your last statement do you not believe RR BT corn is fertilized?


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## haypoint

Thanks Highland for the font change. I had a lot of cut and paste in that message and all different size and styles of fonts. Looked kind of screwy. I was trying to make it all readable. Must have picked up a too large font. Sorry.
So, a Buffer zone can be a Refuge area, but a Refuge area cannot be a Buffer zone or is it the other way around?
Congrats on locating some non-GMO soy meal. What is the percentage of GMO Soys now? 90%, 95/%? Other than blind trust, how do you test non-GMO ground soy beans?
Yes, I know GMO corn is generally fertilized with commercial fertilizers. I just think most people don't understand that non-GMO crops generally have a whole hose of chemicals sprayed onto them that the GMO doesn't get. Clearly a complex tradeoff.


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## FarmerDavid

There is no requirement for a buffer, if one wants a buffer to save the monarchs or whatever your link was they would use refuge corn as a buffer. There is a refuge requirement if planting bt corn that is not RIB. It's 20% and can be in the middle of the field , no need for any buffer. RIB, refuge in bag has 5% refuge seed mixed in the bag and no additional refuge is required. 

Before rr corn came about no one around here used much if any insecticides. Most of our corn doesn't get hosed with everything under the sun moist of the time we don't even spray glyphosate but its nice to have the option in our rr corn. I'm not sure if we need the bt corn here but most consider it cheep insurance. 

I don't know why a the % of non GMO soybeans is now. I think the latest I saw was 90% but even that seems low. What I found is supposed to be certified and grown by the Amish. Probably comes from over gerolds way. There are two farmers here who hate Monsanto and still grow conventional beans, I'd planned to buy from them then take them to be roasted so I could feed them but this option is easier. It's almost twice the cost of
GMO soy meal but isn't bad if you get a premium from non GMO pork.


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## IloveHazel

Our pigs get non-GMO pig feed, and raw milk from our dairy cow. Pasture too.


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## haypoint

IloveHazel said:


> Our pigs get non-GMO pig feed, and raw milk from our dairy cow. Pasture too.


What are the ingredients in your non-GMO pig feed? Your milk cows get any feed beyond pasture?


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## linnell

haypoint said:


> DE does nothing when used inside of an animal, nothing.
> Most family farms use patented seeds. Most of them use GMO. But you may have a source. Trouble is, you pay extra for it and have no way to know if it is non-GMO or not.
> There are required "buffer zones" around Bt GMO Corn. Cross pollination is rare.
> Spraying a field with Roundup and then cutting it for hay is both illegal and foolish. I think someone is pulling your leg. It takes a week or two for Roundup to kill a plant enough to be noticeable and surely not dry enough to bale the next day, or two or week.
> I'm a proponent of Roundup, but only in reasonable situations. There is no way I'd feed my livestock hay that had just been sprayed with Roundup. I doubt that this happened but if it did, it was done by extremely stupid people.
> You didn't just make that story up, did you, just to stir the pot?
> The hog feed they sell in Stewarts Draft, VA contains the following: Corn, Oats, Roasted Soybeans, Diatomaceous Earth, Salt, Dicalcium Phosphate, Seashell Flour, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Menadione Dimetylpyrimidinol Bisulfate (source of Vitamin K activity), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Zinc Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate.



Sorry to offend Haypoint, but I was simply trying to add "Neighborly help and Friendly advice". 
 Didn't realize this forum was so angry.


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## gerold

linnell said:


> Sorry to offend Haypoint, but I was simply trying to add "Neighborly help and Friendly advice".
> Didn't realize this forum was so angry.


Don't worry about it. This is a nice forum. Most in here are happy to help.


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## haypoint

linnell said:


> Sorry to offend Haypoint, but I was simply trying to add "Neighborly help and Friendly advice".
> Didn't realize this forum was so angry.


Sorry if I sounded angry. The story you posted is outlandish. Perhaps someone lied to you and you were simply repeating what they told you.
Spraying Roundup one day and baling the next is just not how it works. I am sure of it.
I, too, was being helpful. I posted what is in the pig feed at the place you buy your feed. Was that helpful to you?
GM corn and soybean is a hot topic. Some react to it as if it were poison. There is a lot of myths out on the internet, few have the time to research the sources.


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## highlands

I was looking up something else and this topic of the use of roundup on grains and hay came up. A quick Google found this:

http://www.google.com/search?q=use of roundup in hay OR grain&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

http://www.aganytime.com/Sorghum/Pages/Article.aspx?article=155

http://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/12640-timely-use-of-roundup-on-coastal-bermuda/

I don't use RoundUp nor do I plant GMOs so I'm not up on this topic but apparently some people are using RoundUp in ways that would bring up this topic of RoundUp poisoned hay. There may be basis for this story.


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## haypoint

I love Glyphosate (Round up). Before I was farming, all the herbicides were costly and survived to get into ditches, streams and water supplies.
This past weekend, I sprayed a 20 acre field that hadn't been farmed in 20 years, only occasionally brush hogged. The field was weedy and had lots of ground berries, willow, Russian Olive and tag Alder . The whole field had been brush hogged 6 weeks ago. I used Glyphosate, 2,4D and surfactant. The longer the spray stays on the plant, the better. I sprayed in dead calm, just before dark. The dew stayed on for most of the next day. Cloudy and high humidity. The next day, I could see signs of wilting. I used about a quart of product per acre.
Next spring, when the remaining plants get growing, I'll spray it again. I'll broadcast commercial fertilizer according to the soil test results.Then, I'll rototill the top 3 or 4 inches to pull the brush roots and level the seed bed. If it were a smoother field, I'd just no till drill the hay field seed into the dead top growth. I'll plant twice the required 12 pounds per acres of Brome, timothy, orchard grass and perennial rye. By avoiding any clovers (alfalfa, Red, Treefoil) I can spray the following year to knock back any weeds and willow. A couple years of good chemical weed control and I can park the sprayer. Manure applications from livestock fed hay from this field limits the infestation of weeds.
I save soil by limiting disruption of the top soil. Killing plowed willow roots would be difficult by hand and would require repeated passes with a drag and still not do a clean job. This saves compaction and fuel.
In a few days, maybe a couple weeks, depending on weather, the Glyphosate will be gone. 

I looked at the first web site you listed, that is a google search with hundreds of search results. I did not read them all.
I looked at the second web site you listed. Seems in regions where the grain sorghum matures, but the plant stays green, farmers need a way to kill the plant instead of waiting for a fall frost to do it. In olden days and by the Amish today, grain crops are cut when the grain is nearly dry and the straw somewhat green. Cutting, binding and stacking until the whole crop is sufficiently dry. Then the sheaves are tossed into a thresh machine for separation of the grain from the straw.
By spraying the grain crop, it all begins the drying process at the same time. In a few weeks, depending on weather, the crop would be dry and the grain combined. But since Roundup kills the plant and it takes so long to dry out after the plant dies, the Glyphosate is long gone from the grain or straw. But grain sorghum isn't a hay crop.
Killing the plant prior to complete ripening of the grain effects the germination of the grain when used for seed the following year. Harvesting most grains prior to complete development impacts viability of seeds. 
The third web site was a discussion between a few guys with some ways of setting back the weeds and undesirable plants as the hay field just starts growing in the spring. I didn't see how it related to spraying mature hay fields. 

But if this was intended to support the story that neighbors were spraying Roundup one day and baling the next, I don't see it. Drying hay by mechanically cutting the plant is still the fastest and best at retaining nutrients. 
Unless you have RR Alfalfa or don't want hay anymore, I'd keep the Roundup out of the productive hay fields.


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## FarmerDavid

Milo (grain sorghum) around here has started to mature and the seed dry down. In afew weeks when it starts to rain again it will shoot out a sucker head, when the first head is ready to harvest the sucker head has formed seed and is green. By spraying the power max they are either preventing the sucker head or drying it down, depending on the application time. I've never heard of anyone doing it around here but its not a bad idea. We either have to harvest it wet and dry it, expensive, or wait, usually 30+ days for a killing frost. By that time the profit has literally gone to the birds. 

Your link also mentioned that the power max reduces mold, my dad has nearly died from milo mold twice. The second time its a miracle he did live, so that's a selling point as well. 

The plant being alive doesn't cause issues with modern harvesting equipment. Around here Milo usually shoots out a sucker head after it is harvested, I even remember one year that everything hit right and we had a late enough frost that some people got a second cutting, that's pretty rare though might be more common farther south.


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## FarmerDavid

Haypoint i like to use a tank mix of Grazon p+d, remedy, and astute for what you described. I'm usually trying to keep the grass so I don't add glyphosate but it would tank mix well. 

I'm having pretty good luck using fewer chemicals and cutting the weeds multiple times a year.


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## highlands

I don't use RoundUp or GMOs and have no experience with it. As I said, I was merely pointing out something that might have been the basis for the original story. It is very common that people, including you, will read something and then think it means something else without understanding that. It also may be that there is something out there that you don't know about. I realize you're in love with the stuff. Don't direct your anger at me. I was just pointing a possible source of the story that I stumbled across while looking at something else.


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## FarmerDavid

I'm not in love with the stuff. I just posted that trying to help someone understand your link. Glyphosate isn't working on alot of our weeds now. Its expensive when it doesn't work, you pay a tech fee, and can't keep beans for seed. I've even convinced dad to at least think about going back to conventional beans. 

Ill gladly admit I don't know everything. I try to approach things with an open mind. I row crop 1500 acres with my dad, on the 45 that I own I'm using practices that are more insink with most on this site. Being around production Ag for 35 years I'm quite familiar with chemicals, seeds, production practices, and fertilizers.


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## haypoint

I expect that after getting rid of a 40 year weed seed load and brush encroachment, that I'll be able to control weeds and provide lush pastures and hay fields relatively free of noxious, invasive weeds.
In many areas of the country that rotations include corn and soybeans, many farmers have eliminated their weed problems and can skip a season. 
for farmers that follow corn with soybeans, they would be unable to get the corn out of their bean fields by using Roundup, if they planted Roundup Ready corn. So they plant GMO Bt corn, followed by RR soybeans. Followed by wheat with a mid season spray to prevent rust. Then back to corn.


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## FarmerDavid

Where is this weed free utopia that you speak of? Ive read of seeds that can stay dormant in the soil for 100's years. That's an extreme but most of the common weeds around here can stay dormant in the soil for decades in the right conditions. One weed can produce thousands of seeds, I haven't seen any evidence of weeds being eliminated in our area.


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## highlands

Sorry, David, that wasn't directed to you. 

Haypoint had said he loves it. Other people don't. My point was that there are articles that could provide a basis for the confusion that hay and grains are harvested with RoundUp. That was my point. 

I agree harvesting with RoundUp is not a good idea. Seems like everyone here can agree on that.

I'm not arguing pro or con here for the use of GMOs or RoundUp. I don't use either personally in our farming. Some people do, some don't. I'm all for leaving things to market forces as much as possible which means if you use it or don't use it (and GMOs) then tell your customers and they decide what they want to buy. Unfortunately there is a lot of miss-information about it and part of that is Monsanto's own fault because they have been so nasty. The product's not evil but the owners of the company may well be. That's a whole other discussion.

*Everyone:*
This Feed sticky thread has a lot of valuable information in it. The topic of RoundUp and GMOs incites a lot of angst. I think there issues have been more than well covered here. Please move on to other aspects of feed.

-Walter


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## adamg

I have corn, wheat, soy and hay available in my area. And fruit by the bucket fulls daily in season. What sort of mix would be I best to feed?


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## haypoint

adamg said:


> I have corn, wheat, soy and hay available in my area. And fruit by the bucket fulls daily in season. What sort of mix would be I best to feed?


2/3 ground corn, 1/3 ground soybean, add a mineral mix designed for pigs, free choice. A flake (2 pounds) hay per hog per day, substitute a bucket of garden weeds when available. A 5 gallon bucket of fruit per hog.


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## adamg

Thanks


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## adamg

Is there anything else I could add instead of mineral mix I would like to make a mix by the ton


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## FarmerDavid

adamg said:


> Is there anything else I could add instead of mineral mix I would like to make a mix by the ton


Shouldn't be a problem to buy a premix for bulk feed.


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## DLMKA

I've been looking at the Fertrell website and their swine grower ration has roasted soybeans but I can only buy bean meal at my local elevator not whole roasted beans. How do I adjust the rations for bean meal instead of whole beans?


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## haypoint

DLMKA said:


> I've been looking at the Fertrell website and their swine grower ration has roasted soybeans but I can only buy bean meal at my local elevator not whole roasted beans. How do I adjust the rations for bean meal instead of whole beans?


By weight. :kiss:


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## DLMKA

haypoint said:


> By weight. :kiss:


100 lbs of whole roasted soybeans does not 100 lbs of bean meal. I guess it's just the oil removed but protein on percentage basis goes up without the fat. I supposed I could look up the oil content of soybeans and remove that percentage from the bean meal. Soybeans are 18% oil, expeller extraction leaves SBM at 4% fat and solvent extraction leaves SBM at 1% fat. Let's assume I get solvent extracted SBM which has had 17% of the mass removed in oil plus the hull as part of the process which say accounts for another 2% of the mass. 19% of the original weight is gone in SBM. If the "recipe" calls for 100lbs or whole roasted beans and I substitute 81 lbs of SBM I end up with the same total protein content of my mixed feed but without 17 lbs of oil and 2 lbs of hulls. Is it as simple as that? Total calorie content of the feed is reduced without the oil and crude fiber is probably reduced to some degree as well.


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## DLMKA

I had another question about feeding buckwheat. Anyone have first hand experience with this? I'm reading that it has a high lysine content, rare among vegetable sources amino acids. Pink and white pigs can't be fed as much if they are on pasture in the sun because they get an itchy rash, dark color pigs like my berks don't have much white on them so t shouldn't be a problem?

The reason I ask is buckwheat can be double cropped after winter wheat so I can get two crops a year but a good two year rotation would include soybeans or another legume and look like this; winter wheat, buckwheat, rye (winter groundcover/green manure), spring planted beans, winter wheat. I also keep bees and love buckwheat honey so technically I'd be getting 3 crops in one season in the year with buckwheat after winter wheat. If I can mix buckwheat in with pig or chicken rations it seems like it would make a great grain to grow and something I can harvest with the AC All Crop I'm hoping to pick up at auction in a week or so.


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## adamg

Is it bad to feed raw soy to pigs


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## highlands

Yes:
soybeans must be cooked with "wet" heat to destroy the trypsin inhibitors (serine protease inhibitors). Raw soybeans, including the immature green form, are toxic to all monogastric animals.​http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean

This is part of why they're cooked for commercial corn/soy feeds.

Please fill in your location information which makes it easier to answer questions. At the very least your zone. See this thread:

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/pigs/505485-please-fill-location-info.html

Cheers,

-Walter


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## adamg

I'm in Fenwick Ontario Canada and thank u for ur reply


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## highlands

There is a nifty little book "Garth Pig Stockmanship Standards" that is filled with charts on just this sort of thing. I have the paper copy but it is also online at:

http://www.thepigsite.com/stockstds/1/pig-stockmanship-standards

Lots of good info for this topic.


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## StayPuff

highlands said:


> There is a nifty little book "Garth Pig Stockmanship Standards" that is filled with charts on just this sort of thing. I have the paper copy but it is also online at:
> 
> http://www.thepigsite.com/stockstds/1/pig-stockmanship-standards
> 
> Lots of good info for this topic.


Thanks, but I can't get the link to work. Is it working for others?


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## StayPuff

I found it. Try this link if you're having problems... http://www.thepigsite.com/stockstds/1/pig-stockmanship-standards


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## highlands

Great, you found it. I fixed the links above so they'll work.


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## KFhunter

I put up a lot of oat hay this year

wondering how much that can consist for the feed and how they'll do on it, and if there's some tricks to get them to eat more of it?


I notice they'll eat it a little better when wet. It has all the oat heads in it cut in the milky stage.


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## WadeFisher

DLMKA said:


> The reason I ask is buckwheat can be double cropped after winter wheat so I can get two crops a year but a good two year rotation would include soybeans or another legume and look like this; winter wheat, buckwheat, rye (winter groundcover/green manure), spring planted beans, winter wheat. I also keep bees and love buckwheat honey so technically I'd be getting 3 crops in one season in the year with buckwheat after winter wheat. If I can mix buckwheat in with pig or chicken rations it seems like it would make a great grain to grow and something I can harvest with the AC All Crop I'm hoping to pick up at auction in a week or so.


 It is a little trickier than other crops. It's either high moister or it dries and 'shatters' when trying to harvest. To get the earlier 'summer' crop is the tricky one. Ideally you cut it into swaths to dry then you have to have a 'pick-up' head on your combine. These are not so common in my area. ( PA )
I also have bees ( a lot of them ) and I do grow buckwheat. I am in the process of selling buckwheat seed that is 'honeybee' approved. Not all buckwheat seed is! 
I have fed it to cows but not pigs. But my reading leads me to believe as long as it is not the majority of their diet it is good. 
Once our crop from this year is cleaned for seed sales the middling (reject ) grains will be fed to the pigs. 
Also; the pigs like buckwheat mixed in their forage mix to eat the whole plant right in the pasture. I have scattered it in with my radish plantings for the pigs and cows.
This year we wet baled and bagged some buckwheat fields to make 'baleage'(spelling?) to see how the cows and pigs like it in the winter season.

Here is a field of buckwheat with several hundred hives sitting in it waiting to be loaded out to Florida.









Close up of Honey Bee working the bloom.


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## highlands

I've read that buckwheat can also cause photosensitivity.


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## WadeFisher

highlands said:


> I've read that buckwheat can also cause photosensitivity.


I believe if you feed 'too much' this is a problem.

Look back at history though, 75 years ago buckwheat was a major crop on us farms. Now it barley registers. But I'm sure the old farmers used it as feed stock quite a bit.

Just my thoughts and what granddad told me.

I will find out more this year. This is the first year I planted much acreage and kept the harvest for myself. I will update as it unfolds.


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## highlands

Aye, as with most things.


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## DLMKA

WadeFisher said:


> It is a little trickier than other crops. It's either high moister or it dries and 'shatters' when trying to harvest. To get the earlier 'summer' crop is the tricky one. Ideally you cut it into swaths to dry then you have to have a 'pick-up' head on your combine. These are not so common in my area. ( PA )
> I also have bees ( a lot of them ) and I do grow buckwheat. I am in the process of selling buckwheat seed that is 'honeybee' approved. Not all buckwheat seed is!
> I have fed it to cows but not pigs. But my reading leads me to believe as long as it is not the majority of their diet it is good.
> Once our crop from this year is cleaned for seed sales the middling (reject ) grains will be fed to the pigs.
> 
> 
> Here is a field of buckwheat with several hundred hives sitting in it waiting to be loaded out to Florida.


I'd be interested in buying some "bee approved" buckwheat seed for replanting. I've put in a few small plots and while the bees work it they don't seem to make much, if any, honey off it. I've had acre plots the last two seasons from a VNS bag of buckwheat seed I got from local seed/feed store.

If I were to plant 6-7 acres of buckwheat is it worth my time and effort as a nectar source? 

The photosensitivity issue I've read about but it more pronounced with light skinned pigs, wasn't sure if the black berkshires (with small patches of white) would be affected.

I bought an Allis Chalmers All-Crop 72 pull type combine complete with a pick-up attachment on the header. Swathers are nearly impossible to find in our area and I don't have room for one anyway so was just going to cut with a sickle bar mower with some swathing bars fashioned to it or time the planting for a frost kill after seeds are mostly mature.


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## highlands

I've read that in horses the photosensitivity is a problem for black horses on their light patches such as a face streak.


----------



## DLMKA

highlands said:


> I've read that in horses the photosensitivity is a problem for black horses on their light patches such as a face streak.


Interesting. I'm going to keep reading and see if I can uncover anything else.


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## njenner

I've had experience with photosensitivity in horses; Walter is correct. For example, I worked on a case where a paint/pinto horse developed the blisters and peeling associated with this on all of the white splotches. The dark hair areas were unaffected. It can be very debilitating which is why I was working on this case. The horse owner blamed the hay grower for allowing certain weeds in the alfalfa hay bale. However, alfalfa can actually cause this disorder as well and the hay was sent to UC Davis for analysis. It's a very complicated series of events that leads to the disorder.


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## KFhunter

local craigslist ad:


> Locally grown NON GMO pig feed. Freshly ground whole grains. Wheat, barley, and peas. High protein feed that will put the weight on your pigs. Easy to handle 50 lb sacks. Added mineral package specific for hogs. This is very high quality feed. $15 for 50lb sacks. Also have 1000lb totes for $235. weights are guaranteed.



There's also another company I'm considering using that's a little closer, here's their label. 










I forget the cost on this one, but it's very reasonable. I need to call them back.


----------



## WadeFisher

Found this little blurb:
<<
_BUCKWHEAT HEALTH BENEFITS
Buckwheat contains higher levels of zinc, copper, and manganese than other cereal grains, and the bioavailability of zinc, copper, and potassium from buckwheat is also quite high. Potassium helps to maintain the water and acid balance in blood and tissue cells, zinc helps to bolster the immune system, and copper deficiency leads to a number of really scary-sounding neurodegenerative diseases and disorders with terrifyingly long names. Bottom line? Having buckwheat in your diet can help you stay fit, nimble, and healthy. 

Buckwheat also provides a very high level of protein, second highest only to oats. Not only is buckwheat protein well-balanced and rich in lysine, its amino acid score is 100, which is one of the highest amino acid scores among plant sources as well. Before you pin a gold star on buckwheat for its perfect test score, itâs important to note there is some evidence that the protein digestibility in humans can be somewhat low. While this makes it a less than ideal source of protein for growing children or anyone with digestive tract issues, itâs perfectly fine for the grown-ups of the world. Besides, humans are meant to have a varied, omnivorous diet, so itâs good to obtain protein from a variety of sources.
>>_


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## WadeFisher

KFHunter:
I saw the heavy use of Triticale in the hog mix. I never saw this before so I did some reading.

<<_
High protein and lysine content com Large variation in nutrient content between varieties
&#8226; Some varieties have anti-nutritional factors and poor palatabilitymmmnnnn
&#8226; Feed refusal has been observed
Triticale is a small, synthetic grain produced by crossing durum wheat with rye. Triticale varieties
typically contain the combination of the high crude protein and digestible energy of wheat and the
hardiness, disease resistance and protein quality of rye. Research has shown considerable variation
among triticale varieties in agronomic traits, ergot susceptibility and nutrient composition.
Limited triticale feeding research has been done with starter diets. Iowa State University recommends
including it at a maximum of 25 percent in starter pig diets. A limit of 25 percent of the total diet is
suggested for breeding stock.
Ergot-infested triticale should not be fed to the breeding herd and triticale with more than 0.1 percent
ergot should not be fed to growing-finishing swine without diluting it with other grains. Screening
has allowed the selection and development of triticale varieties with low ergot susceptibility. In some
studies, growing and finishing pigs fed triticale performed similarly to pigs fed corn-based and barleybased
diets when they were balanced for lysine concentration with soybean meal or synthetic lysine_
>>

I do not know any of this for a fact. 
But we have some Triticale planted for spring forage so I saw the above post as interesting.
Being listed as the first ingredient makes me believe it is the BULK of the mix.
This seems to be okay for Grower/Finisher but seems for sows you should limit to 25% of the mix.


----------



## WadeFisher

I just finished my feed mix for the winter stocks:

67.5 Bu Corn @ $3.80 = $256 == 3982lb 
99 Bu Barley @ $2.80 = $277 == 4750lb
SBM [email protected] $0.26 = $156 == 600lb
Vitamins 150lb @ $.56 = $84 == 150lb

TOTALS $773 9482lb = .082/lb
Grind and Mix on farm with our machine stored in bulk.
We take a gravity grain wagon to local farmer with his own bulk storage and scales.
He dumps in wagon the mix I want of grain. All i have to do is gravity flow it into New Holland Mix and Grind bag it up in 'super sacks' and bins.

This is approx 14-15% Protein
Will be fed to Cows/Pigs and whatever else shows up.

I keep extra SBM to mix some starter feed to higher percentage.

Grain prices are really low right now.
I'm going back next week to get 50 bu of corn in the wagon for feeding deer and snacks for the pigs. Not to mention I use it in my spring planting forage mix.

I just wish I had my Buckwheat seed separated already so I could put the rejects in the mix.


----------



## DLMKA

> Buckwheat can be used to replace about 25 to 50% of corn. Buckwheat has only 80% of the energy value of corn but is higher in fiber and can be planted later in the season as a substitute crop in emergencies. Buckwheat should not be used for nursery rations or for lactating sows, because of their higher energy requirements. Buckwheat should be limited to 25% replacement of corn for white pigs housed outside. Buckwheat contains a photosensitizing agent called fagopyrim that causes rashes on pigs' skin and intense itching when the pigs are exposed to sunlight. This condition is called fagopyrism or buckwheat poisoning.


http://thenaturalfarmer.com/article/hog-production-alternatives


25% of ration max.


----------



## WadeFisher

DLMKA said:


> http://thenaturalfarmer.com/article/hog-production-alternatives
> 
> 
> 25% of ration max.


DLMKA:
That has been what I have gathered from several pieces of documentation.


----------



## WadeFisher

Here is the reply from our local feed mill
From October 11, 2014 
This is a quote we received right before we made our own. You can see it is very feasible compared to prices the last couple years. 
<<
_The delivered price on the pig meal you called about yesterday would be $273.00/ton

Here is a 1 ton mix:

885 Grd corn

885 Grd Barley

180 soymeal

50 swine premix

We would need a 2 day lead time, and prefer to deliver at least 3 tons. We could go less, but the price may need to be increased. Please me if you have any questions.


Thanks,_
>>
That is $0.1365 per lb delivered to our location in 50lb bags.

Last year the price was almost twice that when I called them.


----------



## Buckles

This is a stupid question...but where do you find bulk feed or custom feed sellers? Anyone know of any in the Tampa Bay Area?


----------



## feeddixiefarm

Ok i switch to a new feed and its a 14%pellet and i need to increase the protien another 2 or 3%. I have used sprouted lentils in the past but i am open to opinions. I do not have a reliable source to whey which would be a useful product. Thanks


----------



## FarmerIvan

Can you free choice colostrum milk to 60-70 lb breeder pigs? Also, when they reach around 250 or so pounds what feed should you switch em on to and how many times a day should you feed em?


----------



## miraclemant

I found a way recently to use a wood chipper to run my whole corn thru, to make cracked corn. I would estimate that 99% of the corn gets cracked running it thru the chipper. 

Cracked corn + hog 40 concentrate mixed to whatever protein level I am trying to get.

Currently have 3 Blue butt gilts, running with a pure breed Duroc. expecting piglets in late March of 2016. Which reminds me, I need to build a couple of portable farrow duplexes for them, haha


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## KFhunter

some growers are feeding Pea pellets, it's a by product of making split peas. I think it has pea shells, fines and peas all steam pelleted. 

Wondering what else I should put in if I go this route? Not sure this byproduct should be a sole feed. 

I could also get pea culls which would contain more peas less shells, hotter feed slightly more expensive.


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