# Toulouse Geese and Gender



## Pony

Okay, so is it true? Can it be that there is NO way to determine the gender of my Toulouse geese, Artie and Deco, until they become sexually mature? 

And how do I know when that happens? 

I've not been able to find ANYthing about sexing them, other than that I should have ordered sexed goslings and not bought these two without knowing their genders ahead of time.

I really want to know before Christmas gets here. If they're both girls, they stay. If one is a gander and one is a goose, they both stay.

If they're both ganders, they'll have their own sauce.


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## Cyngbaeld

Pix? It might help. I can sometimes tell.


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## Caprice Acres

You can vent sex them. I've been fairly sucessful doing this with young birds, but it can be done with fully grown ones. For adults I've heard of a few ways - nasal speculum to see inside, or just applying pressure in the right areas... though it's much harder with adults than with babies. I've never tried on adults, I just do it with the babies. With my Tolouse/Embden crosses, my ganders are bigger than my hens so that made it pretty easy... (of course, I still have three ganders and two hens because nobody is looking forward to butchering such big waterfowl! )


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## Pony

If I can convince the camera to stop acting up (there are Elfie pics in it - no wonder!) I will post pics.


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## Pony

Just overall body pics, or butts, or heads, or....?


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## Yellow Creek

Info at the bottom if the article. http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/livestock/poultry/species/geese-raising/egg-production


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## KSALguy

Ganders will have thicker head an necks. They will also stand more upright holdibg their head up looking around more. As they mature the will start acting like a showoff celebrity. The should start showing these traits soon if they were early spring babies. Geese will have a more horizontal stance holding more of a curve to their head an neck an will have a softer chatter voice like an adoring fan to their gander.


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## Pony

Yellow Creek said:


> Info at the bottom if the article. http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/livestock/poultry/species/geese-raising/egg-production


Yeah, we tried that. Didn't work so good. 

KSALguy, the Toulouse is unique in that it really doesn't have consistent secondary sex characteristics.

Wish I'd known that BEFORE I fell in love with how they look....


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## Cyngbaeld

Overall pix and try to get different angles. Sometimes you have to look at several to be fairly sure.


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## KSALguy

Ganders still look an act like ganders an geese still look an act like geese. Not real sure what you mean about consistant seccondary sex traits.


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## farmergirl

Well, if the one you're sure is a gander starts laying eggs, you'll know!

(ask me how I know this...)


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## Cyngbaeld

Not that buff I gave you?


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## oregon woodsmok

When you find one sitting on a nest full of eggs, that one is the girl.


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## Oxankle

Vent sexing a goose is much easier than trying to guess. If the goose is grown it may take two people to hold it in position and turn the vent inside out, but it is a foolproof way to sex geese. 

If you do not have a small speculum, use a rubber glove and a bit of ky jelly on your finger. Swirl the finger around inside the vent to cause it to relax, then turn it inside out. A mature gander has a penis the size of a pencil and half as long. You cannot mistake it. If it is not there you have a goose.

I really like geese and have had as many as 35 of them at a time here, but my garden is not fenced and they eat like cattle.


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## Pony

Oxankle, wish you were closer. Nick and I did our level best to vent sex these two once they got to be 3 months old, but it was difficult and we were very concerned that we might hurt them.

Is it true that you can damage their reproductive system by vent-sexing? We read so many horror stories...


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## Oxankle

Pony; look it up on the internet and do as posted there. No, I have never seen one that appeared hurt. Indignant, humiliated yes, hurt, no. After you have seen a gander leave a goose and drag his penis around on the ground as he struts and honks there is little reason to think they are "tender".


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## Pony

Oxankle said:


> Pony; look it up on the internet and do as posted there. No, I have never seen one that appeared hurt. Indignant, humiliated yes, hurt, no. After you have seen a gander leave a goose and drag his penis around on the ground as he struts and honks there is little reason to think they are "tender".


Okay, now THAT is something I have to see, so I'd better corral Nick this weekend and we can do a Sex Check.

Still fighting the camera blues, but hope to resolve that issue this weekend as well.

Thanks, Everyone. I'll keep you posted!


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## olivehill

Vent sexing adult geese is very simple and the only fool proof way to know for sure. Catch the goose, have a place to sit down handy -- a lawn chair works fine. Turn the goose upside down and backwards so that the neck goes underneath one of your arms (I find it easiest to have the neck under my non-dominant arm). Sit down, position the goose so that it's back is on your legs with it's butt being positioned about halfway between your body and your knees. At this point you should be able to use your forearms to gently hold the goose in place while using both hands to clear the down and open the vent. If the goose is struggling just hold it for a moment and wait, it will stop. Resting the outside of your hands on either side of the vent (the side that your pinkies extend off of), use your fingers to push the down back away from the vent so you can get a good view. Then, using whichever fingers are most nimble/comfortable to you apply pressure just in front off and in back off the vent on both sides, using a stroking motion to firmly press/pull the vent open. You are really going to have to be rough to injure an adult goose so don't worry about that, you need to apply firm pressure in the right place and direction for it to work so be patient with yourself until you get the hang of it. Some will tell you that you can only fidget with one goose for so many seconds to a minute before it will be impossible to get it done as they will clamp up. This is not a problem, ime, so be patient and take your time. The goose is not loving the process, but you're not harming it and it's better to take your time and figure it out than to try to rush and end up frustrated. 

Males will have a white, spiral shaped penis with small hair-like spikes on it. Females will not have a penis, but ime, do have a small red "dot" to be found. Most directions say "if you found a penis it's a boy, if you didn't it's a girl or you did it wrong" but once you get the hang of it you'll come to recognize female anatomy, too. 



oregon woodsmok said:


> When you find one sitting on a nest full of eggs, that one is the girl.


Not necessarily. Some Ganders will take turns.


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## Cyngbaeld

http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/y4359e/y4359e07.htm#TopOfPage


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## dmbenson

get Pilgrims :grin: you can sex them from birth!


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## Pony

Wow. This is an old thread.

To bring an end to the story, we were able to finally tell for sure that Artie and Deco were BOTH ganders. Mean, nasty creatures they were, too. They'd grab hold of the goats' tails and hang on while the poor goats ran away and bellowed.

The ganders were, without fanfare or ceremony, killed, plucked, and cooked.


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## KSALguy

now that you have seen how a gander grows and acts you can try again and know what to look for, the opposite would be a female lol,


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## Pony

KSALguy said:


> now that you have seen how a gander grows and acts you can try again and know what to look for, the opposite would be a female lol,


LOL!

But no, I don't think we'll be trying geese again in this lifetime. Nick seems pretty opposed to it. 

It's a stone witch-with-a-capital-B to get those birds plucked clean!


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## KSALguy

did you use hot wax? yes waterfowl are a pain, hot water with dawn dish soap to get the first layer and then melted wax and ice water to get the down and small feathers, or you can just skin them lol, once in a great while I miss my geese, but only once in a GREAT while lol


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## Pony

KSALguy said:


> did you use hot wax? yes waterfowl are a pain, hot water with dawn dish soap to get the first layer and then melted wax and ice water to get the down and small feathers, or you can just skin them lol, once in a great while I miss my geese, but only once in a GREAT while lol


Naw, it was an impromptu butchering. No hot wax, a little squirt of Dawn, and a goodly amount of "HA! Take *that*, you goat abuser!!!" :hammer:


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## KSALguy

good eating though I bet lol


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