# Best Place to "Bug Out" to



## Warwalk (May 25, 2011)

I'm sure that everyone has their favorite, whether it's deep in the desert or lost in the forest or on a high mountain peak, but what is ~your~ ideal location (in the US or elsewhere) for when TSHTF, and why?

For me, I've come up w/ two places (one I just returned from). Either The Big Island of Hawaii (Fishing is abundant, hunting is abundant, year round growing season, few people, and 3000 miles from anywhere), or Southern Chile (climate similar to the Pacific NW, stable democracy, lots of "room to roam", and far enough from many things that again sheer geographical distance should help keep a person safe).

How's about yall?


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

I do not know about ideal, but........

You would want to be as far as possible from population centers and just far enuff north for a good enuff winter to keep the fools away.

You will need a good supply of fresh water, spring/lake/river/streams...something that produces year round water.

You will need a good soil to produce food and rich enuff soil/vegetation to support wild game.

Anything that met those requirements would work for me.




I think ideal would have to be a underground bunker that was in the middle of nowhere, with enuff provisions that you would not have to even go outside for 2 years.

In 2 years time most of the fools will have starved to death or killed themselves and used up most of the resources that allow distant travel.


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## Warwalk (May 25, 2011)

That's what I had liked about Hawaii. Land on the Big Island isn't too terribly expensive ~ you can get 50 acres for about 200K in some instances. For some not a bargain, but not too extreme. Also, with rainfall of 150" a year, water is in ready supply. Also, it benefits from what alot of land locations don't ~ people would be hard pressed to traverse 3000 miles of Pacific Ocean to arrive at your doorstep. I went out there this summer w/ the kids, and am keeping it on my short list for once I get my house sold in Atl. I was also thinking about a few places in Tennessee or Eastern Ky.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

I have had several friends who have lived on the big island and liked it alot......unfortunatly they lived way out and up on the volcanos...eventually they got tired of evacuating and had the house cut off from lava flow.

They said it was great from a survival aspect as they seldom saw other people and virtually never saw the law and also they said the native islanders were very friendly to those who lived there.

Me personally, I have bought 2 pieces of property soo far......

One in Arizona as I like the gun laws and the isolation the desert offers.

One in the very middle of Kansas, far away from population centers and very sustainable, which also has reasonable gun laws.

One I currently live in here in California, 60 miles north of LA and which I am in the process of selling, so I can vacate this state. Do not get me wrong, cali is beautiful and I live in a area the tempature is 70 average year round and I also live 2 miles from the beach.....it is a wonderful and beautiful state....just do not like the laws and restrictions.....


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

"Land on the Big Island isn't too terribly expensive ~ you can get 50 acres for about 200K in some instances."

I'd call that way too expensive. I bought 45 acres here in the Ozarks for 50k about 15 years ago, and there are still some cheaper pieces of land around.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2011)

*Best Place to "Bug Out" to*

That would be a place where you know what you'll find when you get there. That you know where your water is going to be coming from. Where your food is going to be coming from. What the people are like around where you'll be and how they will receive your being there.

In other words it had better be a place you are already intimately familiar with and better still already live there or at least visit often enough that the locals recognize and accept you as one of them.

Anything less and you are taking some big chances.

Bugging out is simply fraught with risk. It only becomes an acceptable alternative when those risks appear to be less than you'd face by staying where you are already at.


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## JohnnyLee (Feb 13, 2011)

Where ever a bunch of idiots are going so I can kick their butts and take their stuff.

Very little needed in my "bug-out" bag - less to carry, less to worry about.


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## Warwalk (May 25, 2011)

@FourDeuce, it depends on what you're looking for the land for. If you're looking simply to roll up acreage, then indeed it can be had for even less than $1000. If, on the other hand, the prospect of having a perpetual 80 degree temperature, steady rainfall throughout the year, and freedom to plant Mangos, Bananas, or year-round Tilapia is ideal, the Big Island has it's advantages. I had the opportunity to drive through the Ozarks, and they were very nice! I was surprised, having seen them, that they really gave me a strong sense of some places in N. Georgia or E. Tennessee


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2011)

JohnnyLee said:


> Where ever a bunch of idiots are going so I can kick their butts and take their stuff.
> 
> Very little needed in my "bug-out" bag - less to carry, less to worry about.


 At least until you run into the folks who were expecting you.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

JohnnyLee said:


> Where ever a bunch of idiots are going so I can kick their butts and take their stuff.
> 
> Very little needed in my "bug-out" bag - less to carry, less to worry about.


I don't think you'll have much to worry about. Having a "plan" like that will probably mean you won't live long anyway. You won't need many supplies to live for a week or less.:spinsmiley:


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

The Big Island has a water problem. Yes, one side gets a LOT of rain, the other side is DRY as a bone! And in a SHTF situation if you didn't already live there how on earth do you think you will manage to get there - paddle an outrigger?

ANY country that is "stable" now could become very unstable overnight given the right circumstances. If you look and talk like a native you could do well as an ex-pat, if you don't then you will become a high-value target very quickly. 

As Alan said, the best place is one you KNOW and preferably already live at.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

JohnnyLee said:


> Where ever a bunch of idiots are going so I can kick their butts and take their stuff.
> 
> Very little needed in my "bug-out" bag - less to carry, less to worry about.


Interesting statement given the quote in your siggy line. So either you are a troll or you are very confused.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> Land on the Big Island isn't too terribly expensive ~ you can get 50 acres for about 200K in some instances


 :shocked:
I'm with FourDeuce. That is an INSANE price for land!!
We bought 40 acres three years ago for $16K. And that's actually _more_ than the valuation!

Personally, I think where I'm at is about perfect. Accessible water, low population, fairly temperate climate (a few 100 degree days in the summer, a few sub zero in the winter, but generally just a nice 4-seasons type of climate)

Aside from volcanos, Hawaii would be WAY too crowded for me to ever feel safe in a SHTF type of scenario... :shrug:


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## Warwalk (May 25, 2011)

@Wags. You are correct that the Big Island has a dry side and a wet side, but I don't necessarily see it as a problem, unless I wasn't on the right side, lol. But you're correct w/ regard to "how to bug out" to such a far off destination. For me, much of this is early early planning. If TSHTF tomorrow, or next week, or next month, I'd be toast. I'm a single daddy w/ four youngin's. That being said, I'm trying to lay the groundwork as fast as I can, deciding on a well thought out location, making my preparations for moving there, and very interested in hearing what others say about their own favorites.


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## Warwalk (May 25, 2011)

@ ErinP. If it's not secret, where were you able to find land at such amazing rates? I'm not looking for the physical street address lol, just the general area. The best prices I've seen (at least in the Southeast) have run around $1000 / acre, and typically you'd have to buy large tracts to get those kinds of numbers. Tennessee and Kentucky have shown the largest spread of inexpensive ($1000-$2000) lands, Virginia, N. Carolina, and Georgia were more expensive for the most part. Alabama and S. Carolina were somewhere in the middle. Also, do you "work" this land, or use it more as a buffer between yourself and the neighbors? I'm just as new to land prices as I am to everything else, so any and all info is good info =)


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## Warwalk (May 25, 2011)

@ErinP. The population density of the BI really isn't too terrible (depending on what some consider a high density). With 150K people spread over 4000 square miles, they have roughly 37 people per mile. That's just ahead of Kansas and Utah, but well below (surprisingly) some of the seemingly wide open states such as Texas, Oklahoma, Colorado, Iowa, or even Arizona. But for now I'm putting that location on the back burner due to costs.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Warwalk said:


> @ ErinP. If it's not secret, where were you able to find land at such amazing rates?


western Kansas. Central and western Nebraska. Western South and North Dakotas. Eastern Colorado (though they usually run a bit closer to $500 for "cheap" land) and so on. It's out there. You just have to look. 
BUT we're talking undeveloped, raw land here. No house or outbuildings or anything. Maybe that $200K you were talking about included the house and outbuildings?



> they have roughly 37 people per mile


My point exactly. That is WAY too crowded for me. 
I haven't lived in an area with more than 10 people per square mile for nearly 20 years. 
I _prefer_ something more along the lines of less than 3...  (Which is where we've been for the last 10 years.)
Which, btw, is a direct correlation to the cost of land.


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## Warwalk (May 25, 2011)

@ErinP: I'm looking for land in the areas you mentioned =) Much of what I'm seeing is running a good deal higher than $500 (I'm seeing approx. $1000-$2000 or so), but I'll keep digging. The website I was looking stuff up on is www.landwatch.com, but I don't know if that's a good one or not. Seems to be, but maybe their prop's are more expensive? W/ regard to the Hamakua coast, the $200K would actually be for a piece of property that was "off the beaten path", no improvements or structures of any kind. The trouble w/ most of Hawaii is that farmland battles with vacation homes for limited space, and while the BI is where you'll find the best deals, it's still pricey compared to some spots. That being said, the soil is deep, the weather is consistently 80 degrees (so you can grow crops year round... as soon as you harvest, you can prep the soil and plant again), and w/ heavy rainfall there's no need for irrigation. Still, I can't afford it at the moment. Changing subjects, it's interesting how beautiful Kansas is, but it does seem to have extremes in temperature. I'm not sure how similar it is to Oklahoma, but we drove through Oklahoma this summer and when we got out at one point, it was like being in a blast furnace. High winds, very dry and hot (hotter than anything I'd experienced previously, in some ways hotter than Arizona), sucked the moisture right off my skin and made my eyes burn. That could have been just an unusually hot period though. How do people get adequate water in Kansas? The Ogalala aquifer? Also, what do people do for entertainment being so far apart (or is the idea that entertaining is at the house?).


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## Warwalk (May 25, 2011)

@ErinP: One final question ~ do people use propane or something similar for heating in areas like that? I'd think that wood fired devices would be tough to find adequate fuel for... or no?


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Nope. Wood stoves are quite common. You find plenty of deadfall along creeks and rivers to cut firewood. Propane is more common, but only for the same reason that wood stoves aren't as popular everywhere else--they're more work.

So far as land prices. Yeah, I've noticed that the nationally listed sites (like landwatch) are higher. What you want to find are the local realtors in any area that you're considering and start watching what THEY have. They'll set the local market.
If I were a _seller_, I'd go with a national site because the exposure will drive the price higher. 

Also, as with anything, just because someone is HOPING to get $1000 an acre doesn't mean they actually expect to do so. 
Our place, for example, was listed at $800 per acre (which is a truly _ridiculous_ price for 40 acres of grass in western Kansas lol) But, after a month or two worth of negotiations, the seller was down to a more respectable $400.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Right where I am in northern Idaho. Lots of water, lots of game, lots of firewood. Not a lot of people. Growing season is shorter but our days are longer so we manage okay.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Best Place to "Bug Out" to 

Right out my back door. I don't think we are on anyones hit list and I know this country like the back of my hand. Lived and worked in these hills all my life. Lots of edibles, good water, few 90 degree or 20 degree days and cheap living. I have several stashes around....James


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## RW kansas hogs (Nov 19, 2010)

It would be S.W Montana for me, I havent been there for 14 yrs but thats where i would go. Up in the mountains by a lake with plenty of water,fish,elk,deer & wood. 
We are moving back to Montana after the wife finishes her RN school. Mite try the Great Falls area this time.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

A.T. Hagan said:


> At least until you run into the folks who were expecting you.


I'd imagine the life expectancy of the unprepared, especially those with families, on the road, looking to scavenge or take, would be measured in weeks, or less, depending upon whether they were doing their scavenging/takings in progressive parts of the country, or in flyover country, where most ruralites are armed to the teeth.


Wags said:


> The Big Island has a water problem. Yes, one side gets a LOT of rain, the other side is DRY as a bone! And in a SHTF situation if you didn't already live there how on earth do you think you will manage to get there - paddle an outrigger?
> 
> ANY country that is "stable" now could become very unstable overnight given the right circumstances. If you look and talk like a native you could do well as an ex-pat, if you don't then you will become a high-value target very quickly.
> 
> As Alan said, the best place is one you KNOW and preferably already live at.


As I mature, I'm beginning to think anyone that thinks they're going to get to bug out to their little slice of heaven (BOL) when the shtf is just daydreaming... I know some folks 'have to' live in unsurvivable regions to make a living, and they sincerely think they'd make it to their rural fortress. I think they're delusional and not being honest with themselves.

Bugging out an hour away? Sure, as long as your quick. A day away? Odds are every peckerwood in the country will know it's time to go before you make the long days drive (and I mean >800 miles as a long day) and you'll never get there.

Bugging out to the Hawaiian Islands? Not unless you live there already. If you don't live there, I wouldn't expect anything that I had cached there, to be there, if I had to cross 3K miles of ocean. 

I generally don't think any BOL anywhere would be secure, a few days after the EVENT... if your not on site before it's common knowledge, L and E will break down and your 'stuff' is now someone else's stuff.

If your not living on site for long enough for the locals to KNOW you, odds are you'd not make it past the roadblocks keeping 'others' out of rural areas.... Yes, I own 200 acres over on the other side of town, up in the Cooter Creek drainage... You know this fella, Joe? Not me, you, Bill? Nope, never seen him before... But I own it, here's my paperwork... Sorry Mac, you'll need to turn your rig around... please don't come back, we'll not be as nice next time.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

To me $200,000 for a big chunk of land on the Hawaiian Islands sounds pretty cheap. The further you go West and the closer you are to the ocean, the more you have to pay.

A bitty condo on Oahu can cost over a million $. Look at land near any coast in almost any country in the world. Even in 3rd world countries it is outrageously high.

But then, I suppose you'd have to spend another $200,000 on a used sailboat big enough to get you there.

I suspect that anyone who has to go out on the road with only what they can carry is in for a very rough time.


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## Warwalk (May 25, 2011)

I shoulda been clearer in my thread title. I guess what I was really asking wasn't where someone would go on the day the SHTF, but rather, of one hadn't decided (or been able) where they would go, what would be a person's ideal location and why. I agree with most of what everyone has said. If Hawaii was my choice, I shouldn't have moved back at the end of the summer (but this danged pesky house is turning into my last big asset, even as even ~it's~ value erodes). 
For me, I guess what I'd be curious about is, if you could move to the "perfect hideaway" location (for those not already there), where would that place be?
I think that both Kansas and Idaho seem like great options, w/ inexpensive land, lots of game, and not much likelihood spillover from cities would reach these respective areas any time soon. I've heard from some in the past that the 'northern peninsula' in Michigan is an ideal spot, with all of the aforementioned (land, game) coupled with difficult weather that'd inhibit people from moving that direction for some parts of the year. 
Alot of people have their own "pet" ideas about what SHTF will actually entail. For me, I see it as something economic related ~ either a gradual decline in purchasing power / jobs, and a corresponding increase in crime / other, ~or~ some single event, such as war against Iran, where overnight the Persian Gulf is shut down and gas spikes to over ten dollars a gallon.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

For myself, it's right where I am, because I know the area, my preps are here, my family is close, and until that SHTF day comes, if it does, I have well-paid gainful employment. Ideally, I'd like a little more land, better water, more isolation, but I'm blooming where I'm planted until opportunity presents itself.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

If I have to bug out I think I will go to Nunja.


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## beachcomber (Dec 2, 2008)

would that be Nunja Binnus ?


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## chris30523 (Jun 11, 2005)

manygoatsnmore said:


> For myself, it's right where I am, because I know the area, my preps are here, my family is close, and until that SHTF day comes, if it does, I have well-paid gainful employment. Ideally, I'd like a little more land, better water, more isolation, but I'm blooming where I'm planted until opportunity presents itself.


The older I get the more I feel safe in my own backyard. Everything I need is here.
200K for 50 acres in a tropical paradise sounds like a good deal. Where I live in NE Ga. even large acreage is high. Cheap here would be 10k an acre. It all depends on your perspective.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Warwalk said:


> I think that both Kansas and Idaho seem like great options, w/ inexpensive land, lots of game, and not much likelihood spillover from cities would reach these respective areas any time soon. .


In my part of Idaho (far north) where we have lots of water, etc. there really is no inexpensive land. Maybe down south there is, but then you'll run into the water problem.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

My folks live in Cusick, WA - basically northern ID - no cheap land there...


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## Warwalk (May 25, 2011)

@Chris, I'm glad to see someone else here from the Peach State (Go Dawgz)! Ya, being here in Atl, even after the crash, our idea of cheap land would be 5-10K an acre, and during the boom, 30K an acre for unproductive red clay and pine trees would be a good cost approximation. (Heck, even now, right behind me in my neighborhood we've got 3 acres of rugged land listing for $200,000. It's crazy. I've heard even back since revolutionary times land in Jaawja has been pricey, but couldn't say as for why. You're in a real nice part of the state there, heading up towards lake Hartwell and stuff ~ beautiful part of the state.

@Lisa, it seems like Idaho is undergoing what so many other areas seem to be undergoing ~ land prices rising as people from Urban areas snap up what they can, where they can. Heck, I was looking at farmland in S. Dakota going for nearly $2K an acre, lol, and that was merely for giggles. It seems like everyone that can is snapping up tracts where they can, and that the desirable properties even in the most of remote areas are harder to come by. I've heard especially in that valley area surrounding Boise that home prices have risen drastically. 

Speaking of a Georgia - Idaho link, first game of the football season puts the mighty Bulldogs against Boise State's high octane offense. Will Mark Richt turn things around and make a run for the championship after last season's performance? Or will Boise State gain an early season polls bounce, and have a run of their own... this'll be one to watch folks!


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## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

Howdy, Georgia neighbors! 

I live 2 days' walk from Atlanta. I do NOT want to be here when SHTF.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SCRancher said:


> My folks live in Cusick, WA - basically northern ID - no cheap land there...


Right across the Pend O'Reille river from northern Idaho. We buy our hay in Cusick. For some reason, Cusick timothy is fantastic. It's a beautiful place.

Oddly, my husband's family is in South Carolina!


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## Warwalk (May 25, 2011)

Ya, Atl would ~not~ be a good place to be when the SHTF. Not good at all. I was trying to catch some of what was going on in Milwaukee recently (now ~That~ would be a good new poll: See how many people heard anything about Milwaukee) and hopefully it won't be a precursor of what could be coming if things don't improve. 
I think something I really need to look at is not only ~where~ to go potentially, but with land choices ~what~ I'm hoping to do with this land. I can say sincerely that there's no way in heck I'd be "working" a full 40 acres, so would I be buying it for grazing? A buffer? General satisfaction? I think, probably a little of everything, and while I could get by on far less, idealize the prospect of having a small part in crops, a small part in orchard, some animals, and just in general room to stretch out and let the kids go wild. 
If and when there'll ever be some sort of rlly terrible event is anyone's guess, much less by what means. But, in the meantime, it'd just be nice to have a more back-to-earth lifestyle than suburbia provides, and to be able to go to sleep from the exhaustion of hard work rather than from stress or something.


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## Space Cowboy (Apr 26, 2008)

Do NOT go to the big Island! I lived there for awhile. The population isn't too bad there, but you have a MUCH smaller island (Oahu) not far away. It has a LOT of people. Guess where they're going? I spent some of my time "living off the land" (more or less) there and it wasn't easy. One last thing is that a lot of people (me included) go island happy after awhile. You are very isolated and have no where to go.

SC


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## machinist (Aug 3, 2010)

A. T. Hagan said:

"That would be a place where you know what you'll find when you get there. That you know where your water is going to be coming from. Where your food is going to be coming from. What the people are like around where you'll be and how they will receive your being there.

In other words it had better be a place you are already intimately familiar with and better still already live there or at least visit often enough that the locals recognize and accept you as one of them.

Anything less and you are taking some big chances.

Bugging out is simply fraught with risk. It only becomes an acceptable alternative when those risks appear to be less than you'd face by staying where you are already at."


Words of the wise here. Been there, done that, and agree completely. :clap:


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Why bug out??We live way out in country-great deep well-prime farm land-animals-great people that believe in hard work-95m from a city-great fields of fire...we''ll stay put.


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## Warwalk (May 25, 2011)

I subscribed to your Ga prepper site =)


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## chris30523 (Jun 11, 2005)

I am in the far NE corner so I am a bit further than boldviolet but still within walking distance of Atlanta if they choose to take the back roads into Good Ole Boy country.Thats why land is so expensive we have all of the million dollar second homes of the Atl. Elite here.

We should be as safe here as on the road with people we don't know. I married into the Good ole boy network and they look after their own. We have 30 acres with good gun toting families all around us.The only bad neighbor I have is a whiney single woman with 57small dogs in a double wide trailer.

My husbands family owns several hundred acres about 3mi up the road. I would rather stay here with the support of a network of friends and family then walk or ride off into the unknown. Better the "Devils you know"

Yep Mark Richt has a hard year ahead if he wants to keep his job.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

zant said:


> Why bug out??We live way out in country-great deep well-prime farm land-animals-great people that believe in hard work-95m from a city-great fields of fire...we''ll stay put.


Agree. We don't plan to ever "bug out" we're in the group that will be "bugging in."


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## JohnnyLee (Feb 13, 2011)

Wags said:


> Interesting statement given the quote in your siggy line. So either you are a troll or you are very confused.


Um, well I am neither. Actually, the after any of the major SHTF scenarios, there will be plenty to live off of for a while, then have to start getting into the preps - that should last about a year. After that, whomever survived the initial kill off/die off (whatever) - a big percentage of them will start dying off due to various diseases, infections (both bacterial and viral), so the population will decrease dramatically.

Look at it this way, if everyone wants to "bug out" somewhere, most survivalists talk about getting out in nature, leaving the big citys, etc. Most people, unless they have trained for survival living in the "mountains" or forest or wherever you favorite "bug out" place is. I would realistically give them about 1-2 years until they are done in. Now, I am talking about your "typical american" today. Those of us that grew up way out in the country have a better survival rate than most. People that train WELL and OFTEN, can increase their survival rate tremendously.

So, if you or I am lucky enough to make it past the 2 year mark, there should be stockpiles of stuff from people that didn't. Not that I am counting on that solely for my survival.


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## JohnnyLee (Feb 13, 2011)

FourDeuce said:


> I don't think you'll have much to worry about. Having a "plan" like that will probably mean you won't live long anyway. You won't need many supplies to live for a week or less.:spinsmiley:


Huh? Do you understand the written word? The OP was talking about where your "bug-out" places where. I never even said where, nor did I indicate that was my plan at all, just an option given all the scenarios, and you people attack me saying I won't last long because of a "plan" that I never said was my plan, or based on my signature line? Geez! :hysterical:


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