# Senseless Brutality



## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Ya know, some of y'all may not be good at guessing, so I'll make this point unequivocally.

I'm a white, Southern male over the age of 50.
I've had friends in the Klan and the NAACP. I'm proud of who I am and the way I was raised, there's no doubt I know right from wrong.

I'll congratulate the city police force for firing this guy immediately, I'm just thankful Mr. Patel wasn't a friend of mine and the cop within reach of me.
When I read this kind of story, I can picture myself at a police protest......no matter how light my skin is.
Unfortunately, I think a few paybacks would end this police brutality thing a whole lot quicker than any grand jury investigation.
I'm still working on the mercy and forgiveness thing..........

Read the whole story and tell me how you'd react if your elderly father came for a visit, took a walk, and was trying to find his way back to your house in one of those look-a-like subdivisions.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...charged-with-assaulting-indian-man/ar-AA9jI2j


MADISON, Ala. &#8212; An Alabama police officer has been charged with assault and will be fired after authorities say he badly injured an Indian man whom he stopped to question as the man was walking through his son's neighborhood. The man has filed a lawsuit, and the FBI has opened an investigation.

The lawsuit filed by Sureshbhai Patel on Thursday claims that his injuries include partial paralysis. His son said his father had to undergo surgery to fuse two vertebrae in his spine. Hours after the suit was filed, Madison Police Chief Larry Muncey announced that Officer Eric Parker would be fired.

Last Friday, Parker responded to the neighborhood in response to a call about a suspicious person walking onto driveways and looking into garages, department officials said in a statement.

Parker and other officers stopped Patel, 57, and tried talking to him but he spoke little English, authorities said.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I do not understand why reporters or anyone for that matter have to mention a persons race, religion ect. in a story like this. Get people riled up? It's not like running a BOLO or such.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

7thswan said:


> I do not understand why reporters or anyone for that matter have to mention a persons race, religion ect. in a story like this. Get people riled up? It's not like running a BOLO or such.



If ya have ta ask, it probably won't do me any good ta tell ya.
Same reason I put my own ethnic background at the beginning of my post.

_Should _it matter?
NO.

Does it?
I ain't even gonna try to answer that one.
I already know from life's experiences.

Same goes for the guy's age.
Was this a young punk looking for a break in?
Are there laws about assaulting the elderly specifically targeting higher punishment?
Does it matter?
See above response.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

It kinda, well, really bugs me because I can't tell an Indian or a Mexican from an Arab. And the age thing, in this instance, I'm not sure what a cop might think. I do know that I've never broke into a home and stold anything-but I do look when a garage door is open. That's because I'm a picker.
My story on that, Dh and I used to drive to a farmers place, we bought feeders and piglets from him. On the way, I'd always see a old bike in the open garage-only the handlebars. I'd try to figure out by little glimpses if it was an Harley or an Indian. One day, from far away I saw it sitting by the driveway with a for sale sign on it. I gasped told dh to pull over, bought it on the spot with atleast 5 other people lined up behind us. It's a mint 47 Indian Chief.
Moral of the story, people "look" arround for many reasons.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I admit it bothered me too. Not a race issue so much as an older man who couldn't speak English. A little patience was called for. But it does seem police have no time anymore and so have substituted physical means for it. Certainly his behavior was weird enough to merit police attention.
Maybe our problems have more to do with too few police than anything else. I know they are expensive, at least here, having a basic salary way above average and substantial benefits, but maybe we need less expensive but less pressured police.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

I didn't read anything into the "race" other than that it added some detail as to why the man didn't speak English. 

What he needed was some direction back home. What he got was an assault and probably pain for the rest of his life and a huge fear of those who's job it is to SERVE and PROTECT. 

This cop needs to pay up and provide for this man's needs, for as long as it takes. I don't give a rats butt he lost his job. Accountability, it's time.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

7thswan said:


> It kinda, well, really bugs me because I can't tell an Indian or a Mexican from an Arab. And the age thing, in this instance, I'm not sure what a cop might think. I do know that I've never broke into a home and stold anything-but I do look when a garage door is open. That's because I'm a picker.
> My story on that, Dh and I used to drive to a farmers place, we bought feeders and piglets from him. On the way, I'd always see a old bike in the open garage-only the handlebars. I'd try to figure out by little glimpses if it was an Harley or an Indian. One day, from far away I saw it sitting by the driveway with a for sale sign on it. I gasped told dh to pull over, bought it on the spot with atleast 5 other people lined up behind us. It's a mint 47 Indian Chief.
> Moral of the story, people "look" arround for many reasons.


Very true, I posted this as much as a perspective to those on here 
as much as I did as a commentary on our trend towards a police state.
People generally live in fear......of just about everything.
We've become accustomed to 100% security and protection 24/7 rather than the way life is, used to be and ought to still be.
I get up,walk around and manage to survive every day so far for 50 years without attacking or being attacked except for the very rare occasion.
When the day comes that I can't manage the situation of an old man, lost in a strange country looking for his family, y'all have my permission to put me down like an old dog cuz I would be totally worthless.
Like Sheriff Andy Taylor used to say, "Y'all try to act like ya got some sense."


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

It was an abuse of power.

Criminal charges should.

Burning, looting. Marches no.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

The article said the cop was arrested after being fired. Some jail time would maybe teach him a little respect for others, like his roommate "Bubba".


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

farmrbrown said:


> Very true, I posted this as much as a perspective to those on here
> as much as I did as a commentary on our trend towards a police state.
> People generally live in fear......of just about everything.
> We've become accustomed to 100% security and protection 24/7 rather than the way life is, used to be and ought to still be.
> ...


But one very rare occasion can change your life forever. And maybe diligence is the price to pay for avoid it. Maybe the problem is not as much a police state as a criminal state where escalating violence creates escalating violence in response. Maybe if more noise was made to defend victims, rather than criminals, there would be less reason to demand official protection.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

2 "guests" on the news this morning had to discuss if a Cops name should be given out when they are being investigated for instances such at this story. There should be no problem with witholding names until it is done.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

To many cops have forgotten the motto " to serve and protect " should not be followed by the word. "Cops "


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

where I want to said:


> But one very rare occasion can change your life forever. And maybe diligence is the price to pay for avoid it. Maybe the problem is not as much a police state as a criminal state where escalating violence creates escalating violence in response. Maybe if more noise was made to defend victims, rather than criminals, there would be less reason to demand official protection.




Well, I had 10 guys on me in Atlanta, another time a gun in my face in Asheville, a couple of rumbles in Montgomery, but I can honestly say I don't change, I'm the same guy I've always been.

I also know from personal experience the safest place on earth with 3 meals a day, a bed and 24 hr guard service is........jail.
I'll pass on that too.:umno:

I carry myself the same way, watchful, but not fearful.
I don't want gov't protection, don't need it and would hate to think my life were going to depend on it.:thumb:


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

What I cant stand is the officer is charged with assault. If the man did the same to him here in N.C. its called assault on a Government Official ! How about an assault on a Citizen ???


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

I have to disagree with this part of Where I want to's post

_Certainly his behavior was weird enough to merit police attention.
Maybe our problems have more to do with too few police than anything else. I know they are expensive, at least here, having a basic salary way above average and substantial benefits, but maybe we need less expensive but less pressured police. 
_
This guy was not doing anything that merited police attention. He was walking down the sidewalk. Police have to have reasonable suspicion that a person is committing a crime or about to commit one before they can detain them. We have way too many police where I live, don't know about you. Cops make about the same as most gooberment workers. I don't think they are overpaid.

I, and I suspect a lot of other citizens, don't trust the police anymore. This incident is a prime example of one reason why. The cop stops a guy who is walking down the sidewalk and peering at the houses trying to find his son's. He is an older person and they are less likely to be committing a criminal act. The cop detains him and quickly determines that the man does not speak english. When the man shakes off the officer's grip on his arm the cop violently throws him to the ground. He should have gently restrained him until someone could interpret or let the man go. This cop was a bully with a badge. It makes the rest of us wonder what kind of treatment we can expect if we have an encounter with a cop. 

Most people have heard that the cops can lie to you. This does not engender trust in most of us. 

The only encounter I have personally had with a cop was when I called them because a black neighbor was threatening me. He blew it off, I suspect because he didn't want to deal with a black person. 

I have been studying up on my rights when interacting with cops. I will be calm and courteous when dealing with them but will not let them trample my rights.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I just watched the video on the news and you nailed it.
He was just being a bully. He slammed the guy like a linebacker when he had backup with him and another car pulling up.
Personally, I wouldn't be suing, I'd be trying to raise my own bail, lol.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Nimrod said:


> I have to disagree with this part of Where I want to's post
> 
> _Certainly his behavior was weird enough to merit police attention.
> Maybe our problems have more to do with too few police than anything else. I know they are expensive, at least here, having a basic salary way above average and substantial benefits, but maybe we need less expensive but less pressured police.
> ...


The article said a resident reported him as a suspicious person walking around peering into people's garages. So the police responded. That was all that the article I read said about it. That is no justification for the result. But for coming to police attention?


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Todays paper said that although the suspect was non communicative ,refused to take his hands out of his pant pockets and pulled away from responding officers, he was kept under adequate control and dash cameras did show that Parker used excessive force and has been fired from the police force and facing charges.

The non communication issue is a result of folks visiting a country that doesn't speak their language and they didn't learn elementary aspects of the language of where they were.

The suspect keeping his hands in his pockets and pulling away were sufficient cause for added force of responding officers as many folks carry pocket handguns and knives.

An officer with gun and badge are globally recognized as a reason to put your hands up or at least in plain view even if you don't speak the language, which the suspect did not.

After the suspect was adequately restrained, Officer Parker used excessive force documented by video surveillance and has been fired from the police department and faces charges both criminal and civil.

Being that this is a castle law state the suspect is lucky that he wasn't shot and killed by a homeowner as he was trespassing into driveways and garages.

While a bad situation all around, it is being properly addressed and luckily there were no fatalities associated with the incident.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

The man was on the sidewalk, up here the sidewalks cross everyone's driveways and are not considered trespassing. I know, I live in one of these "cookie cutter subdivisions". I would never think to call the police because someone was walking up the sidewalk looking into my garage because that is what people do when you leave the door open.

The old man is likely permanently paralyzed - he had to have two vertebrae fused and he still cannot move his left left and is in a neck restraint - the real kind, not the "show the judge your neck is hurt" kind. He is still in the hospital and is not doing well. 

There was absolutely no reason for that cop to slam that old man to the ground when he had his hands handcuffed behind him at the time. The cop was a punk and should have been fired and arrested and I do hope that he serves time. 

The old man told the copy he did not speak english. What more was he looking for?


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm sorry the man is not doing well. If he should happen to die, and the facts of the case were as stated above, I would hope that the punishment is significant and severe. There is just no excuse.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

'Roids?


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Copying my response from a different forum:

The video of the police actions shows what happened. The use of that amount of force was completely outrageous, beyond all reason, and a danger to ALL citizens. Testosterone fueled young cops have no idea how fragile older and ill folks can be, and training that even gives an hint that such physicality is acceptable in a non-violent arrest is a threat to the community at large. Completely and totally disgusting.

About the only good thing is that for whatever reason the lawyers for the department and union were told to shut up and stand in a corner, rather than coach "do not admit responsibility, as it might prejudice a case." It is about time that abhorrent police behavior was publicly denounced by those in charge, so that the loose cannon will stop seeking employment as legal thugs and REAL policemen and women can become commonplace.

In ironic twist of the whole episode is that Hindus are about the most non-violent of all religions, and the cop was one who had the responsibility of being a trainer. No rallying the troops together on this one to defend actions. His chief made an immediate public apology to the family. Once his trial is over, I hope he leaves the state in shame and gets a job where he can never have power over more than a spoon.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

sidepasser said:


> The man was on the sidewalk, up here the sidewalks cross everyone's driveways and are not considered trespassing. I know, I live in one of these "cookie cutter subdivisions". I would never think to call the police because someone was walking up the sidewalk looking into my garage because that is what people do when you leave the door open.
> 
> The old man is likely permanently paralyzed - he had to have two vertebrae fused and he still cannot move his left left and is in a neck restraint - the real kind, not the "show the judge your neck is hurt" kind. He is still in the hospital and is not doing well.
> 
> ...


 The suspect was on the sidewalk after having been seen trespassing into garages in the neighborhood.

Both the LEO and suspect share equally in the outcome of the arrest and should both be charged, The LEO for use of excessive force and suspect for failure to comply and resisting arrest.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Shrek said:


> The suspect was on the sidewalk after having been seen trespassing into garages in the neighborhood.
> 
> Both the LEO and suspect share equally in the outcome of the arrest and should both be charged, The LEO for use of excessive force and suspect for failure to comply and resisting arrest.


No, the suspect was on the sidewalk after having been reported as a "skinny black guy" peering into garages. There was no report that he entered or trespassed into any garage. At the time he was "resisting" he had already been restrained with his hands cuffed behind his back. Exactly what threat did he pose to the officers standing behind him?

The good news is that the police chief handled this appropriately and quickly. He didn't hide anything, prevaricate or try to blame the victim. Sometimes doing the right thing is the best thing and diffuses tensions and eliminates more problems.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

I couldn't get past: "I've had friends in the KKK..."


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Tricky Grama said:


> I couldn't get past: "I've had friends in the KKK..."



I know, right?
Here's something to chew on, you've probably known a few in your life as well.
In case you've misunderstood how that could happen, do you suppose that you know every deep, dark secret about everyone you've ever known?
Ever known someone for years and one day they tell you "Oh, by the way.......".
Or walk up on a group of men talking, one of them you know well, and he introduces you to his uncle and the rest of his "clan"?
:huh:

How many people have voted for former klansman for office? How many people never knew they did? How many people closed the curtain in the voting booth and did it anyway?
We'll never really know will we?
It ain't called a secret society for nothin'.:whistlin:

When I was a kid, I had no idea that the President of the state NAACP was our tv repairman, that his wife would teach me chemistry in high school years later, and their son would be my classmate all through school.
I had no idea that some of my other classmates would be doing other things, not all of them bad. One ended up being an international symphony conductor.
But I wouldn't trade my life experiences for all the tea in China, it makes me who I am.

It's funny the reaction I get when I'm honest with people. I don't make it a habit of talking out of school, but in this case, I thought it insightful because I also listened to the complaint call to the police non emergency number.
The guy was sincerely worried and wanted someone to go out and talk to the "suspect", but being who I am and what I know, I also recognize "code words" that are used to transmit information without being obvious about it.
The fact that he mistakenly described him as a "black man in his 30's, skinny, I mean real skinny. I've been here 4 years and never seen him around here before."..........
Now, many wouldn't know what that means and far fewer would be willing to admit that was in code, but I'll go ahead and let the cat out of the bag to put this in better context.
He told the cops "I think there's a crackhead roaming around my neighborhood, y'all come quick."

Like Nevada's defense of Obama on the Chapel Hill killings, you can say he didn't really say that, but I wasn't born yesterday.

Once they arrived and didn't use the brains God gave them to discern the situation as a case of mistaken identity, the mistakes went on to leave this poor man in the hospital and a cop looking for a new career.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

mmoetc said:


> No, the suspect was on the sidewalk after having been reported as a "skinny black guy" peering into garages. There was no report that he entered or trespassed into any garage. At the time he was "resisting" he had already been restrained with his hands cuffed behind his back. Exactly what threat did he pose to the officers standing behind him?
> 
> The good news is that the police chief handled this appropriately and quickly. He didn't hide anything, prevaricate or try to blame the victim. Sometimes doing the right thing is the best thing and diffuses tensions and eliminates more problems.


That deserves an "atta boy".
I too am glad it was handled correctly and promptly. 
Doing the right thing isn't easy or else everybody would be doing it.
Kudos to Alabama in this case.:thumb:


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Shrek said:


> The suspect was on the sidewalk after having been seen trespassing into garages in the neighborhood.
> 
> Both the LEO and suspect share equally in the outcome of the arrest and should both be charged, The LEO for use of excessive force and suspect for failure to comply and resisting arrest.


I think even you know better than that.
Alabama did good here, don't muck it up for them, lol.
You can't be charged with failure to comply if you don't know the language the order was given.
You can't resist arrest if you don't know you are under arrest.
Listen to the tape, I'll post a link if you want to hear the conversation but I think the first link has it also with sound.
It didn't take 2 minutes between first contact and him being on the way to the hospital, a total of 5 1/2 minutes between the complaint call and the hospital ride.
Please don't defend a dishonorable act, you're a better man than that.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Well, I don't think there was evidence of KKK where I grew up in the middle of KS. But gotta tell ya, there were tons of "Ds" who kept voting for that congresscritter-name escapes me, one of longest in congress & oldest when he died-who was a clansman.
'Nother reason I'm not a "D".
Oh-Byrd.

I DO know that once that fact was uncovered, they'd NO LONGER be a friend!


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Tricky Grama said:


> Well, I don't think there was evidence of KKK where I grew up in the middle of KS. Gut gotta tell ya, there were tons of "Ds" who kept voting for that congresscritter-name escapes me, one of longest in congress & oldest when he died-who was a clansman.
> 'Nother reason I'm not a "D".
> Oh-Byrd.
> 
> I DO know that once that fact was uncovered, they'd NO LONGER be a friend!



Yes, Byrd was one, from West By God Virginia. There were more in the national legislature and many more in the state and locals.

There are Klan in every state whether you know of it or not. One of the vilest rivalries that sparked the Civil War was between Missouri and Kansas. I reckon things haven't changed much.
Many people in the North still look down at their Southern brethren and think, "That doesn't happen up here".......as the Nazis march in the Skokie, Ill., lol.



Now you can stand there and say what you would or wouldn't do, not having any of the experience to go by to back up your claim, and that's fine. People do that all the time. One of the oft repeated phrases is, "You don't know what you'd do until it happens."

And yes, after finding out, we've parted ways and don't keep in touch.
But could I honestly and truthfully stand before you and God and say, "Oh no, he was never a friend of mine!"?


I may be a lot of things, some of them not good, but I'm not a liar.
And one thing my friends can always count on is, as our Lord has already taught us, is that no matter what we do in life, forgiveness and mercy is available to us all. AND when we seek out our hearts, we are to do the same.
That was a lesson I learned last week in dealing with a particular contentious fellow employee. It is a constant, life long lesson that I have to keep learning.
But the Potter isn't quite done with this clay pot yet.............


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

farmrbrown said:


> I may be a lot of things, some of them not good, but I'm not a liar.
> And one thing my friends can always count on is, as our Lord has already taught us, is that no matter what we do in life, forgiveness and mercy is available to us all. AND when we seek out our hearts, we are to do the same.
> That was a lesson I learned last week in dealing with a particular contentious fellow employee. It is a constant, life long lesson that I have to keep learning.
> But the Potter isn't quite done with this clay pot yet.............


That's the only way to be in my book. Telling the truth isn't always the popular route with others but to me its the only route.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> I think even you know better than that.
> Alabama did good here, don't muck it up for them, lol.
> You can't be charged with failure to comply if you don't know the language the order was given.
> You can't resist arrest if you don't know you are under arrest.
> ...



Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Police do not have to speak the language of a criminal. This is the U.S. People should speak English.
When cop arrests you if you resist that is resisting arrest, no matter what language the criminal speaks.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

pancho said:


> Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Police do not have to speak the language of a criminal. This is the U.S. People should speak English.
> When cop arrests you if you resist that is resisting arrest, no matter what language the criminal speaks.


Alrighty then.

LING CHAO! LING CHAO!

Now, since ignorance is no excuse, just what did I tell you in Vietnamese.
(Apologies to any Vietnamese on here for my spelling and of course, what I just said)
No, police aren't required to speak every language.
They ARE required to keep their friggen hands to themselves unless they have more than two brain cells between their ears!


BTW, have you done any searching about on any Indian city's police websites, like the larger metropolitan ones?
A little education can really do wonders for ignorance.
Try it, I think you and others might be surprised as to what foreigners are accustomed to in regards to rampant police corruption in their own countries, since you seem to feel that their reactions should be automatic and universal.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> Alrighty then.
> 
> LING CHAO! LING CHAO!
> 
> ...


Don't plan on argueing. A law is still a law no matter what language the criminal speaks.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

7thswan said:


> 2 "guests" on the news this morning had to discuss if a Cops name should be given out when they are being investigated for instances such at this story. There should be no problem with witholding names until it is done.


If you are I were the accused assailant, our names and photo would be on the evening news. Why should there be special rules for cops? If you are accused of a crime, the treatment should be the same. 

And though it doesn't appear to be a problem in this case, trusting the cops to investigate themselves is something I will not do. If my family member, lodge member, or church member were the accused, would the cops trust me to lead an investigation and then report back? Of course not. I'm very rarely an advocate for another gov't office, but there needs to be an independent state agency that investigates and prosecutes cop crime.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

pancho said:


> Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Police do not have to speak the language of a criminal. This is the U.S. People should speak English.
> When cop arrests you if you resist that is resisting arrest, no matter what language the criminal speaks.


way to miss the entire point. 

The issue isn't that the Indian man resisted or if the police are right to detain and restrain him for resisting. The issue is EXCESSIVE FORCE. The police have no right to shoot you for jay walking. The level of force has to fit the crime and the circumstances and in this case, even the police chief thinks it was criminal use of excessive force.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

farmrbrown said:


> Alrighty then.
> 
> LING CHAO! LING CHAO!
> 
> ...


Cahm ahn, bahn toi.

And my Vietnamese is worse than yours, that's my attempt at a phonetic spelling. I had to learn that phrase for when I win a poker pot from the many Viet players. It really puts people on tilt when you thank them for the $$$ in their own language.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

DEKE01 said:


> way to miss the entire point.
> 
> The issue isn't that the Indian man resisted or if the police are right to detain and restrain him for resisting. The issue is EXCESSIVE FORCE. The police have no right to shoot you for jay walking. The level of force has to fit the crime and the circumstances and in this case, even the police chief thinks it was criminal use of excessive force.


Looks like my point went sailing over your head. The point I was making is that a criminal who does not speak the same language the police officer does still has to obey the law. ZOOM


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

pancho said:


> Looks like my point went sailing over your head. The point I was making is that a criminal who does not speak the same language the police officer does still has to obey the law. ZOOM


You are half right. Obey the law, yes. Some crimes are self evident, regardless of the language, like the Indian could not walk into a bank and rob it at gun point, claiming he did not know the law. However, obey unintelligible instructions from a cop is not necessarily a crime. If you were right, a deaf man with his back to the cop could be convicted of resisting arrest for not complying with the cop's verbal instructions. 

And you are still missing the forest for the trees, Zoomie. Excessive Force.

You also exhibit a nice streak of xenophobia. I agree immigrants should learn English but just being in a country does not obligate someone to understand the language. Otherwise we would have to get rid of all those wonderful foreign tourists who pay the bills in Orlando.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

pancho said:


> Looks like my point went sailing over your head. The point I was making is that a criminal who does not speak the same language the police officer does still has to obey the law. ZOOM


Of course he has to obey the law. Now, what law did he break that was cause to arrest him in the first place?

Use of the third consecutive brain cell should have given the officer a big hint that maybe this person was lost and didn't speak the language. Don't you think that should have tempered a response to something less than a WWF move to crush the guy? How about taking a good look and listen and seeing if someone could come and translate for him, to try to figure out what the gentleman's problem was, not just arrest him because he didn't know how to react to a language he didn't understand.

He wasn't crawling through someone's bedroom window carrying a glock with a face mask on. He was on a sidewalk, obviously trying to figure out where he was as he knew that somewhere close by was the home of his family. 

The "crime" of resisting arrest is bogus when there was no cause for arrest in the first place. 

Just my opinion.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Bellyman said:


> Of course he has to obey the law. Now, what law did he break that was cause to arrest him in the first place?
> 
> Use of the third consecutive brain cell should have given the officer a big hint that maybe this person was lost and didn't speak the language. Don't you think that should have tempered a response to something less than a WWF move to crush the guy? How about taking a good look and listen and seeing if someone could come and translate for him, to try to figure out what the gentleman's problem was, not just arrest him because he didn't know how to react to a language he didn't understand.
> 
> ...


I wasn't even talking about the man or his crime. I was answering a statement that said if a person did not speak the same language as the cop they were free to break a law.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

pancho said:


> I wasn't even talking about the man or his crime. I was answering a statement that said if a person did not speak the same language as the cop they were free to break a law.



Oh please. Are you seriously trying to equate?

"You can't be charged with failure to comply if you don't know the language the order was given.
You can't resist arrest if you don't know you are under arrest."

with

"I was answering a statement that said if a person did not speak the same language as the cop they were free to break a law."

??????


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

I went hunting for an update on the health of the Indian Grandfather and found this on his gofundme site: (if link is not ok, please remove as I am *NOT *soliciting funds for this person, but wanted to have evidence of the update).
(removed the gofundme site)

Update on Sureshbhai:

Hank Sherrod, the family lawyer, has stated that Sureshbhai is improving faster than expected. &#8220;His grip strength is improving, though he can&#8217;t yet handle small objects (like a spoon). His legs are improving, too, particularly his right leg. The doctors attribute the improvement to Mr. Patel&#8217;s hard work and motivation.&#8221; Sureshbhai is in the process of being transferred to a rehabilitation center.

Sureshbhai&#8217;s family is currently trying to determine the medical or medical related expenses they will incur due to this tragic incident. The family has yet to receive bills related to the hospitalization.

He had a surgical fusion at Huntsville Hospital after the incident with the Madison Police Department.

I hope he continues to recover and can only imagine how expensive his Hospital stay, surgery and resulting rehabilitation will be. Seems like the Police Department should have stepped up and accepted responsibility for the bills since they have already acknowledged that their Police Officer was at fault. Would have saved the family from having to get a gofundme site and sue for damages. Suing for damages seems to be the norm these days in order to get the attention of government and hold them accountable since they will fight it every step of the way. If I were the local Madison Co. PD, I would go ahead and settle as this is too widely known to be pushed under the rug.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

You're a misunderstood man pancho.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

bowdonkey said:


> You're a misunderstood man pancho.


I try to keep things as simple as I possibly can.
All a person has to do is read the words.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Pancho, I agree that not being able to speak the language is not an excuse not to obey the law. No one is free to break the law whether they speak the language or not. I don't think we're disagreeing on that point. (?)

I guess I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Bellyman said:


> Pancho, I agree that not being able to speak the language is not an excuse not to obey the law. No one is free to break the law whether they speak the language or not. I don't think we're disagreeing on that point. (?)
> 
> I guess I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make.


That is exactly the point I was trying to make. See, it is simple. 
I am not intelligent enough to hide different meanings in my posts.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Oops... 

Sorry, Pancho. I must have been the one who misunderstood. 

Peace!


:typomat:


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

The man said several times that he did not understand English, he also stated he was from India and gave the house number of his son. 

For those that don't live here in Madison/Huntsville area, it is hard to picture how close the houses are in many of the newer subdivisions. Here is a description of the street where this occurred:

H_ardiman Place Lane passes the eye test as a nice neighborhood - streets lined with curbs, sidewalks on both sides, small manicured lawns in front of one-story brick homes packed closely together. In fact, there is only about 15 feet between homes and few trees or fences. Privacy would not appear to be among the leading draws of the neighborhood._

_*Garages close to road*_

_ The garages, in fact, are typically in the fronts of the homes and in some cases, maybe only about 20 or 25 feet from the sidewalk. If a garage door is open, the inside is visible from the sidewalk. According to audio of the call to Madison police, the caller said Patel was "wandering around driveways" and "walking around close to the garage." Police have not identified the person who made the call.
http://www.al.com/news/huntsville/i...on_street_where_ind.html#incart_story_package_

As I said earlier, in our neighborhoods like this, there is no way one cannot walk down a sidewalk (which is part of the driveway) and not see into a garage. In many areas, you can hear what your neighbors are saying in their own home if they raise their voices.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Years ago, we had friends form Vietnam. They bought one of the cookie cutter homes in a subdivision where most all of the houses were the same. We used to laugh together because on at least one occasion, he drove up to the wrong house, parked in the wrong driveway, walked up the wrong sidewalk, stuck the key in the wrong lock... before realizing he was at the wrong house. Had the key worked, I wonder how much farther he would have gotten without realizing.

Stuff happens, and it's not always with criminal intent.


:typomat:


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

do you have the link for the gofundme site for him SP? i see you said you removed it but was that because you were required to here or you did it on your own? ~Georgia.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

never mind SP i found it! it's up past 173.000 so far. ~Georgia


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Bellyman said:


> Years ago, we had friends form Vietnam. They bought one of the cookie cutter homes in a subdivision where most all of the houses were the same. We used to laugh together because on at least one occasion, he drove up to the wrong house, parked in the wrong driveway, walked up the wrong sidewalk, stuck the key in the wrong lock... before realizing he was at the wrong house. Had the key worked, I wonder how much farther he would have gotten without realizing.
> 
> Stuff happens, and it's not always with criminal intent.
> 
> ...


I had an uncle that rode with some other people back and forth to work. He always went to sleep. They pulled up in front of a house a block away from his house. He went to the door, opened it, and went in the bedroom and went to sleep. The people who lived there had to wake him up and send him on home.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Our neighbor was having a party and one of the guests came walking into our house and was surprised that we lived here. She got the house number wrong. Glad we were both dressed  She apologized and the neighbors also apologized. 

We now keep our garage door down and the doors locked when we are home. But we didn't call the cops or threaten to shoot the woman. Simple mistake.

If I am in my office, like now, if my neighbor opens his garage door, I can hear it.

If my DH wasn't so sick, we would continue our search for some land/farm out in the county further away from people. But right now is not a good time to do that..I think it would be too much stress on DH with his health problems. Perhaps after his lung transplant (if he qualifies) then we will see. Until then, we are tolerant of our neighbors, people walking up the street and on the sidewalks, neighborhood parties and kids and the awful number of feral cats and one very pesky armadillo that lives behind our house.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

newfieannie said:


> do you have the link for the gofundme site for him SP? i see you said you removed it but was that because you were required to here or you did it on your own? ~Georgia.


I requested the mods remove it if it did not comply with site rules as I do not want people to think I am requesting donations. That site was the only place I could find the latest health updates for the gentlemen, but you know how it is -- no link sometimes equals a barrage of "where's the link?" and I wanted to avoid that to some extent.

I rarely post anything unless I have a few sources to confirm what I post.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

sidepasser said:


> ...
> If my DH wasn't so sick, we would continue our search for some land/farm out in the county further away from people. But right now is not a good time to do that..I think it would be too much stress on DH with his health problems. Perhaps after his lung transplant (if he qualifies) then we will see. ...


I wish the very best for you and your DH in the situation. I've known a few people with serious lung issues and it's a difficult way to live. 

Blessings!


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

pancho said:


> Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Police do not have to speak the language of a criminal. This is the U.S. People should speak English.
> When cop arrests you if you resist that is resisting arrest, no matter what language the criminal speaks.


Maybe maybe not .
http://research.lawyers.com/ignorance-of-the-law-may-be-an-excuse.html

Rule and Exceptions

The general rule that ignorance is no mistake is supposed to make sure no one can willingly and purposefully break a law and then claim he "didn't know" it was against the law. If that could happen, there would be no law and order.

This gives way to the two main exceptions to the rule. First, although it's presumed that you know all of the laws of wherever you are, the laws need to be made known to the general public in the first place. A law can't be passed in secret and then enforced against the unaware public. That's why laws are published in books, online, and even why speed limit signs are on the roads and highways.

So, the US Supreme Court decided years ago that when someone can show she had no idea a law existed, and the authorities make no attempt to prove that she could have and should have known about the law, she can't be convicted of the crime of not following the law.

In a similar vein, when it takes a specific intent to commit a crime - basically meaning someone actually means to do something illegal - ignorance of the law may excuse the illegal act. Again years ago, the Supreme Court decided a taxpayer couldn't be convicted of tax-related crimes that required purposeful or willful conduct when he had a good faith belief he wasn't breaking the law.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Maybe maybe not .
> http://research.lawyers.com/ignorance-of-the-law-may-be-an-excuse.html
> 
> Rule and Exceptions
> ...


I will try once again. Not being able to speak the same language as the cop does not make you innocent of any crime you commit.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

pancho said:


> I will try once again. Not being able to speak the same language as the cop does not make you innocent of any crime you commit.


And the converse of that is not speaking the language shouldn't lead an officer to assume you are committing a crime. There are a very few circumstances where an officer should be allowed to place hands on a private citizen. Placing them into custody or removing them from danger are the main ones. If an officer were to touch me for any other reason I would likely pull away. Am I resisting at that point ?


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

pancho said:


> I will try once again. Not being able to speak the same language as the cop does not make you innocent of any crime you commit.


Nor does it make you guilty :thumb:


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

mmoetc said:


> And the converse of that is not speaking the language shouldn't lead an officer to assume you are committing a crime. There are a very few circumstances where an officer should be allowed to place hands on a private citizen. Placing them into custody or removing them from danger are the main ones. If an officer were to touch me for any other reason I would likely pull away. Am I resisting at that point ?


Only if the cop has told you that you are under arrest :hammer: Under today's system most times the cops make the laws as they go and the judge enforces them .It takes deep pockets to fight city hall ,and they most don't have the money to do it .


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

in case anyone's interested it's up past 183.000 now. I can see this going way up there. it's hitting a lot of people hard and all we can do is donate a little money. (most likely deep down it makes us feel a bit better) I can't see why they didn't offer to pay all his health bills since they've already admitted fault. they'll pay in the end anyway. jmo. ~Georgia.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Nor does it make you guilty :thumb:


But it will get you arrested.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

pancho said:


> But it will get you arrested.


There you are right :thumb: Guilty till proven innocent :buds:


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Sawmill Jim said:


> There you are right :thumb: Guilty till proven innocent :buds:


Seems sort of strange. I always thought it was the opposite. After giving it a little thought I realized I was wrong. Guilty till proven innocent is true.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

pancho said:


> Seems sort of strange. I always thought it was the opposite. After giving it a little thought I realized I was wrong. Guilty till proven innocent is true.


Yep I tried it out so I would have experience on the subject :thumb:


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Yep I tried it out so I would have experience on the subject :thumb:


That isn't one of those things that you want to have a lot of experience in.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

pancho said:


> That isn't one of those things that you want to have a lot of experience in.


Yes to become not guilty costs lots of money :runforhills:


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

mmoetc said:


> And the converse of that is not speaking the language shouldn't lead an officer to assume you are committing a crime. There are a very few circumstances where an officer should be allowed to place hands on a private citizen. Placing them into custody or removing them from danger are the main ones.
> 
> 
> If an officer were to touch me for any other reason I would likely pull away. Am I resisting at that point ?


As Sawmill Jim pointed out, prior experience _can_ lead to having a ready answer.....:hammer:
The answer to your question, like it or not, is usually "yes".
Once stopped and detained, all a cop has to say is he was in the act of placing you under arrest for........(fill in the blank)......... or any kind of pulling away was suspicion enough to do so.

Bottom line is, it's usually easy enough to make the charge stick and rarely would a cop get in any trouble for it, only in the most extreme circumstances. In fact, since you mentioned him placing hands on you, in many instances that is all that's necessary to constitute a charge of resisting _with violence._
That's right, if HE says he HAD to place his hands on YOU, you resisted with violence.
No need to verify that one, once again, experience already knows......:hammer:
Which is why it's worth noting that this man isn't facing any charges at all from this incident.



Sawmill Jim said:


> Only if the cop has told you that you are under arrest :hammer: Under today's system most times the cops make the laws as they go and the judge enforces them .It takes deep pockets to fight city hall ,and they most don't have the money to do it .


Oh yeah.



pancho said:


> I will try once again. Not being able to speak the same language as the cop does not make you innocent of any crime you commit.


No it does not. You are right about that and never meant to imply that it does.
But a language barrier does not negate any innocence either. Cops have a great leeway in manhandling you while placing you under arrest. Obviously that boundary was violated.
They still have the responsibility not to hurt someone without good cause.
Giving instructions like "Show me you I.D." and then reacting to reaching in your pocket for the I.D. requested isn't going to convince anyone that the cop had a good command of the English language either........


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

pancho said:


> Ignorance of the law is no excuse. .


Ive heard that but I don't think its true, Don't you have to have intent?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

DEKE01 said:


> I'm very rarely an advocate for another gov't office, but there needs to be an independent state agency that investigates and prosecutes cop crime.


:buds: Close But if I loan ya that beer could I get you to change that to a Independent NONgovermental agency?


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

AmericanStand said:


> :buds: Close But if I loan ya that beer could I get you to change that to a Independent NONgovermental agency?


if you can figure out how to make that happen, I'll probably back your proposal when you run for office.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

AmericanStand said:


> :buds: Close But if I loan ya that beer could I get you to change that to a Independent NONgovermental agency?


Interesting idea, but I don't see how it would have the authority to do anything about the cop crime without it being a government agency. Sure, we the people could grant said agency the authority to arrest and prosecute criminal cops...but it seems that granting the authority would make it government.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Ive heard that but I don't think its true, Don't you have to have intent?


No, people and LEO always look for intent but that is usually to make it easier to find a crook.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Intent is written into many laws. The same action can be either perfectly legal or a crime, depending on the actor's intent.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

jtbrandt said:


> Intent is written into many laws. The same action can be either perfectly legal or a crime, depending on the actor's intent.


Oh, you mean like breaking into a house or vehicle?
That would be a crime anywhere, right?
But if the house was on fire, or a baby trapped in a car, is the destruction of property to save a life considered quite differently than the intent to steal?

Intent is indeed an integral part of the law, always has been.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Oh, we could have some fun with Latin if I could remember more than a bit of it. Mens rea and actus reus are probably relevant, though I'm no legal scholar so I'd have to consult with someone more knowledgeable to really say anything worthwhile on the subject. But yes, at least some crimes rest very heavily on intent.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2015)

jtbrandt said:


> Oh, we could have some fun with Latin if I could remember more than a bit of it. Mens rea and actus reus are probably relevant, though I'm no legal scholar so I'd have to consult with someone more knowledgeable to really say anything worthwhile on the subject. But yes, at least some crimes rest very heavily on intent.


http://thelawdictionary.org/criminal-intent/
(source: Black's Law Dictionary)
Criminal Intent: Overview
Criminal intent is a necessary component of a "conventional" crime and involves a conscious decision on the part of one party to injure or deprive another. It is one of three categories of "mens rea," the basis for the establishment of guilt in a criminal case. There are multiple shades of criminal intent that may be applied in situations ranging from outright premeditation to spontaneous action.


In my experience it was almost always required to show intent in criminal cases.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

The few exceptions being things like statutory rape and DUI homicides in some states. It gets a little dicey when you start to really think about whether those should be exempt from the intent requirement, though. Anyway, back to the topic...resisting arrest certainly requires intent...it also requires a lawful arrest (I think) which as far as I could tell wasn't happening until the moment of the extremely excessive force.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Deleted


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol 


where I want to said:


> I admit it bothered me too. Not a race issue so much as an older man who couldn't speak English. A little patience was called for. But it does seem police have no time anymore and so have substituted physical means for it. Certainly his behavior was weird enough to merit police attention.
> Maybe our problems have more to do with too few police than anything else. I know they are expensive, at least here, having a basic salary way above average and substantial benefits, but maybe we need less expensive but less pressured police.


 Maybe to get good cops we need to pay for a good cops. 
It’s seldom that I buy the cheapest and expect to get the best. 


7thswan said:


> 2 "guests" on the news this morning had to discuss if a Cops name should be given out when they are being investigated for instances such at this story. There should be no problem with witholding names until it is done.


Lol no way. 
Why should they get special protection win all the people they investigate have their name is published ?
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander and all that


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

If it went down like the report says and the man was not under arrest, the officer should be charged with assault. I really don't understand modern policing. I have responded to hundreds of calls, and made many arrests. Mostly by myself, with backup thirty minutes or more away. I have never had to slam anybody to the ground, or shoot a fleeing suspect. I must have been doing it wrong all of those years.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I think it may have been because you didn’t have the Faux military uniform ?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> I think it may have been because you didn’t have the Faux military uniform ?


The first place I worked was in Eastland County, Texas. The uniform was jeans a white shirt and a Ten X beaver Stetson, your badge hung on your shirt pocket. You paid for your own clothes, carried your own gun, and most of us reloaded our own ammo.

This was in 1979, I still have the Stetson. I wore it when I went to the post office this morning.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

muleskinner2 said:


> The first place I worked was in Eastland County, Texas. The uniform was jeans a white shirt and a Ten X beaver Stetson, your badge hung on your shirt pocket. You paid for your own clothes, carried your own gun, and most of us reloaded our own ammo.
> 
> This was in 1979, I still have the Stetson. I wore it when I went to the post office this morning.



Nice hat. I had to look up what that meant (10x Stetson)
One of the disadvantages of not being a cowboy or from Texas. 

https://www.stetson.com/our-company/faq/



muleskinner2 said:


> If it went down like the report says and the man was not under arrest, the officer should be charged with assault. I really don't understand modern policing. I have responded to hundreds of calls, and made many arrests. Mostly by myself, with backup thirty minutes or more away. I have never had to slam anybody to the ground, or shoot a fleeing suspect. I must have been doing it wrong all of those years.


LOL.
More like you were doing it right and would have been good at training others.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Nimrod said:


> I have to disagree with this part of Where I want to's post
> 
> _Certainly his behavior was weird enough to merit police attention.
> Maybe our problems have more to do with too few police than anything else. I know they are expensive, at least here, having a basic salary way above average and substantial benefits, but maybe we need less expensive but less pressured police.
> ...


When we take a stand, we rationalize and bend the truth. That is what you've done. here. The old guy wasn't just walking down the sidewalk. He was peering into people's garages, in their driveways. In common terms that is called " casing the joint". A few people in the community were alarmed and called the police. Language barrier or not, old or young, black, brown or white, it is never a good idea to resist the Cops. Cops cannot allow such action.

It sort of becomes a chicken or the egg. People that have no respect for Cops tend to exacerbate every contact with police. As push comes to shove, it often ends badly for the resister. When Cops come to expect disrespectful behavior, they are mentally prepared to increase the force when things begin to get out of control. When split second choices must be made, they can be the wrong choice when the outcome is known and a few days to ponder other choices.

People that make a big deal to insure Cops "don't trample their rights" go into any police contact prepared to put them in their place, to be confrontational, to display their lack of cooperation. You may say you are calm and courteous, but it is a common human reaction to spout your newfound knowledge, to keep your rights from being trampled. Sometimes a bit of knowledge is just enough to overstep your rights. Being wrong, but thinking you are right is bound to end badly. 

I worked with a guy that went on vacation to Rome. Due to the time change, he couldn't sleep, and went for a walk down the streets of Rome. He had no intention of buying anything, so left his billfold with his wife in the Hotel. An American, unable to communicate with anyone, no identification, walking aimlessly at 3 AM got him a interview with the local police. Had Frank become agitated it would have ended badly. Sort of like this old peeping Tom.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Check the updates on the story;
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...n-assault-charges-dropped-20160513-story.html
Apparently refusal to obey an officers order is punishable by excessive force.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Danaus29 said:


> Check the updates on the story;
> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...n-assault-charges-dropped-20160513-story.html
> Apparently refusal to obey an officers order is punishable by excessive force.


What a twisted tale.
Alabama Atty General switched the standard from probable cause to beyond a reasonable doubt, which is supposed to be for the jury to decide.


To top it off the only person convicted in the whole thing was the police chief, for contempt.
And he fired the officer because he violated dept policy.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> Alabama Atty General switched the standard from probable cause to beyond a reasonable doubt, which is supposed to be for the jury to decide.


Juries decide after seeing the evidence.
Prosecutors decide if there's enough evidence to convince a jury.
Probable cause is for warrants and arrests.
Nothing was "switched".
You just misinterpreted his statement and focused on the wrong words.



> Alabama Attorney General Luther Strange filed a motion to dismiss the case, saying *there wasn't sufficient evidence* to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Juries decide after seeing the evidence.
> Prosecutors decide if there's enough evidence to convince a jury.
> Probable cause is for warrants and arrests.
> Nothing was "switched".
> You just misinterpreted his statement and focused on the wrong words.


Really?
Did I "misinterpret" the legal standard for going forward with a charge?
http://judicial.alabama.gov/docs/library/rules/cr2_4.pdf
http://judicial.alabama.gov/docs/library/rules/cr5_4.pdf
Can you find me the ruling that states a prosecutor can't try a case unless he's sure of a conviction?
They DO have great latitude in deciding whether to prosecute, but how many assault charges with a videotape of the incident are dismissed for "lack of evidence"?

https://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/05/alabama_to_drop_case_against_m.html


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Wow three brave cops against one frail old man. 
I’m so proud that they were able to hand him a beat down. 
Bet they are still bragging on that one. 
Specialty now that the courts have declared it the way to treat confused old men. 
Arrrrgh !


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> Really?
> Did I "misinterpret" the legal standard for going forward with a charge?


Probably, but it's just as likely you know I'm right but you won't acknowledge reality.



farmrbrown said:


> Can you find me the ruling that states a prosecutor *can't* try a case unless he's sure of a conviction?


I never said he "couldn't".
He never said he "couldn't".

Let's not play the silly word games.
I've seen them all many times.



farmrbrown said:


> They DO have great latitude in deciding whether to prosecute


Yes, they get to decide.



farmrbrown said:


> how many assault charges with a videotape of the incident are dismissed for "lack of evidence"?


How many trespassers get charges dismissed even when it's obvious they were told to leave?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Awwww, I thought this was going to be a thread about football.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Sidepasser: Long time no see;
In all the places I've lived you could stand on the sidewalk and look, but it was definitely not good form to walk up to the garage and peer in. Of course the garages were set back at least 35 to 50 feet. (Unlike the condo here where 15 feet is more like it. )


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Weird I didn’t see a single no trespass or a bit of purple paint. On the entire street


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Weird I didn’t see a single no trespass or a bit of purple paint.


They aren't required.
No one has the right to snoop around on your property.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Not all states require property to be posted against trespassers. But the problem with the old man and the supposed trespass is that it is only trespass if the person "knowingly" enters or remains on private property. If he was looking for a relative's home and not knowing Alabama law he could not "knowingly" have entered prohibited property. 

However, I question why the family would let him wander around an unfamiliar area, knowing he could not speak the language of the land, totally unassisted.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Things need to change...….


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol no way.
> Why should they get special protection win all the people they investigate have their name is published ?


Arrests are a matter of public record.
"Investigations" are not.
Many names aren't published unless charges are filed.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I have to admit for someone from a foreign land of the paved driveways along that street might simply seem to be extensions of the public Pavement of the sidewalks and street. 
In other words all that concrete may have seemed to be public right-of-way to him.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...er-partially-paralyzed-after-frisk-goes-awry/
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...ed-by-citizens-treatment-2015feb13-story.html

The man was not old and frail. The press kept saying he was a grandfather but he was only 57. Apparently he had visited his family several times previously. There are also several different accounts of what was reported to the police. One says he was in driveways looking into garages, another says he was looking at houses. The call went through as a non-emergency call so most likely there is no recording of what was actually reported. The person who called seems to mostly have been concerned about a black man in the neighborhood. My top link has the police video where he was knocked down. The cop got pissed off because Patel turned away from him, that can be heard on the video. Just another case of walking while black.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

farmrbrown said:


> More like you were doing it right and would have been good at training others.


No thanks. Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

What brought this thread back up? It is old.

It is sad to see all the members long gone.


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