# Solar Energy- Good Idea in Missouri?



## HomesteadXing (Jul 12, 2010)

Was wondering if anyone knew about whether putting up a few Solar panels and the system (hubby is building it) to replace electric or at least offset the bills a bit, would be effective in Missouri, there's a nice area to set up the solar system and route it to the house, to where it will have plenty of sun, but was just wondering if anyone else had done this and if so, any tips? (Best brand of panels to go with, pro or custom install, etc) Thanks :goodjob:


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

This site will tell you about all the incentives in MO

http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=MO07R&re=1&ee=1

Your state net metering law really sucks:



> Credited to customer's next bill at avoided-cost rate; granted to utility at end of 12-month period (from the net metering page)


You need to check with your power provider to see if they will hook up to an owner built system. 



> Systems must meet all applicable safety, performance, interconnection and reliability standards established by any local code authorities, the National Electrical Code (NEC), the National Electrical Safety Code (NESC), the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE), and Underwriters Laboratories (UL) for distributed generation. Utilities may require customers to provide a switch, circuit breaker, fuse or other easily accessible device or feature that allows the utility to manually disconnect the system
> 
> (from the interconnection standards page)


I'd also check with your insurance company and see how much your insurance will rise in cost from the system. I'd hate to see you invest very much money in a system to have a hail strom, tornado, or wind storm destroy it and noty beable to recoop some of the cost. The insurance alone can cost more than the power savings.

Gotta run

WWW


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## HomesteadXing (Jul 12, 2010)

wy_white_wolf said:


> This site will tell you about all the incentives in MO
> 
> http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=MO07R&re=1&ee=1
> 
> ...




Oh wow  alot to it lol, ok thanks for the info. I figured I would ask before my husband started delving into hooking up marine batteries and switches of all sorts (he's a electronic nut) and our home is only about 500sq foot. Is the net thing the payback on when we "feed" the meter?


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,
Most places allow people to install PV systems themselves, but as WWW says, you need to check on incentives, with the local code people to see what kind of inspection/permit is needed, and with the utility to see what their rules are for grid tied systems. 

We did our own grid tie system -- all the details here:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/PV/EnphasePV/Main.htm
If you have done some wiring before, its pretty straight forward, but there are some safety issues that are not present in regular wiring, so a bit of reading is in order. We found the code and utility people to be quite cooperative.


But, if you have not taken a serious cut at reducing your demand, that's probably the place to start.
We cut our bill 500 KWH/month (from 1000 KWH down to 500 KWH) with about $1000 of expenditures -- mostly a new fridge, and then a lot of less costly stuff like efficient lights, power strips,...
http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Half/ProjectsConservation.htm

The new PV system cuts the electric usage by about another 300 KWH a month -- down to less than 200 KWH a month -- but this cost $6000 after rebates and with us doing the work. 
Clearly the conservation is the place to start -- it was about 10 times more cost effective for us.

We are still working on the conservation end, and hope to get down below 100 KWH per month. Recently replaced a 148 watt 36 inch TV with a 70 watt 46 inch TV. If every time you buy something that uses electricity you look at power consumption, you can usually make a gain -- but, with the current product labeling, that's not always easy to do.

PVWatts will tell you how much a PV system of a given size will save you in your area.
http://www.nrel.gov/rredc/pvwatts/version1.html



Gary


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

If your DH is capable of doing "home wiring" then you could split your home into two circuits . . .the grid (for the heavy loads) and your home built solar for the lite stuff.

Since you mentioned 'marine' batterys that tells me your 'system' is small so don't get all excited about *payback* in a state that doesn't really want you to "grid tie".

So you can have the personal satisfaction of powering some lights, Tv, puter etc. from solar without all the hassel of "grid tie-ing".


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

Oh, Boy.. If your hubby is an electronics nut like me, it'll become a major project.. LOL

My place has become a toy! I'm always designing or building something that I can use, be it a light fixture or some kind of stereo. 

I have 960 sq.ft. and everything operates from the battery. Jim-Mi has the right idea if you already have the grid connected.


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## iaragwooler (Jun 26, 2010)

We live in southern IA, 7 miles from MO border and are off grid with a "built it ourselves" system. Amish homestead with a 2000 sq ft home but just 2 of us. We invested our $$ in a bigger invertor so can power what we need. This past winter was our first here and we may look at adding a small wind charger as lots of days with some wind but no sun. Still never "ran out" of power.


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## Qhorseman (Jul 9, 2010)

Our co-op in central MO is not solar friendly, they will allow a grid-tie system because the federal law says they have to. They put really high insurance requirements on it, that makes any gain negligible. I have a hybrid system as mentioned above, everything runs off of solar except the air conditioner and a small space heater.


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## HomesteadXing (Jul 12, 2010)

12vman said:


> Oh, Boy.. If your hubby is an electronics nut like me, it'll become a major project.. LOL
> 
> My place has become a toy! I'm always designing or building something that I can use, be it a light fixture or some kind of stereo.
> 
> I have 960 sq.ft. and everything operates from the battery. Jim-Mi has the right idea if you already have the grid connected.



Well, we're looking to buy a 40 acre wooded parcel in Summersville come fall, and it's not electric accessible, and our home that we're building will be about 500sq ft at most, so we're looking into the solar energy for a main power source, the internet will be most likely done at his computer repair shop in town, so there's not a big deal about that. We thought of wind, but seeing as its mostly woods and missouri is more humidity and sunlight than wind.... that wouldn't work too well.

And yes, I think my hubby will enjoy doing this, he's studied solar power since he was 12 and had his grandpa's collection of popular mechanics to learn from+ his popular science mags that he gets in the mail now.

We mainly want to be able to power lights, a small oven/stove (apartment size) Small refrigerator and the water/water heater. The place is mostly shade, but he plans on logging some of it to make pasture, and we'll set up the panels in the field away from the animals up on a pole with the solar box (containing the batteries, etc) nearby to where we can hook up to it-- or so that's the plan.


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## HomesteadXing (Jul 12, 2010)

BTW our home will be mostly made out of wood, we wont' be able to insure it, no vinyl siding, etc, just log siding, interior, etc with drywall and insulation after putting in electric outlets, etc.

Think of a x-large porta shed made into a home lol.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

You just raised two red flags when you mentioned stove-/-hot water. 
If you are thinking of doing this with a solar electric system the price tag just took a mighty leap upwards.
Even a 'apartment size' are energy hogs.

It makes sense to do cooking and hot water with propane.


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## HomesteadXing (Jul 12, 2010)

Jim-mi said:


> You just raised two red flags when you mentioned stove-/-hot water.
> If you are thinking of doing this with a solar electric system the price tag just took a mighty leap upwards.
> Even a 'apartment size' are energy hogs.
> 
> It makes sense to do cooking and hot water with propane.


Can't do propane in our area, it's way to expensive, though I plan on heating with an outside wood furnace for normal heat.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Takes very little propane to cook or heat domestic water ( use a tankless heater )...you could get by on a few hundred gallons/year.....you're talking maybe 500 bucks/yr....less if you do solar water heating. ( Direct thermal heating, not PV, then resistance electric )

Remember that figure when you start sizing a solar power system to use ANY kind of electric heating ( stove, water, etc ).....You'll find propane is dirt cheap.


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

HomesteadXing said:


> Can't do propane in our area, it's way to expensive, though I plan on heating with an outside wood furnace for normal heat.


Look around and buy your own propane tank. (craigslist,is a good place too start, I have bought several this way.) Then you can shop price. Get a tank that is large enough that you will not have to fill but once a year. Now is the time to buy while prices are probably at there lowest of the season. You may be surprised at what you can buy it for and remember when pricing, cash is king for the best price.


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## HomesteadXing (Jul 12, 2010)

TnAndy said:


> Takes very little propane to cook or heat domestic water ( use a tankless heater )...


Where would I get a tankless heater, I'm assuming that's a water heater? I know it's probably a dumb question, but I'm clueless about this stuff, but my hubby knows more and I'm just trying to find out the info before he delves into it lol. Thanks!





> Look around and buy your own propane tank. (craigslist,is a good place too start, I have bought several this way.) Then you can shop price. Get a tank that is large enough that you will not have to fill but once a year. Now is the time to buy while prices are probably at there lowest of the season. You may be surprised at what you can buy it for and remember when pricing, cash is king for the best price.


About what size would you recommend? And would it come with the tank hose to connect to the house? Or do we need to look for that separate?


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

HomesteadXing said:


> Where would I get a tankless heater, I'm assuming that's a water heater? I know it's probably a dumb question, but I'm clueless about this stuff, but my hubby knows more and I'm just trying to find out the info before he delves into it lol. Thanks!


Bosh and Rennai are the two that have the best reputation. Here is a place that carries them....you would want a fairly small one, I'd think....the "cabin" model most likely would do ya.

Bosch Tankless Water Heaters

Goggle propane tankless water heaters for other sources. They will run a bit more than tank type heaters, but they make it up in the long run with the amount of propane you DON'T use with a standing pilot light, or keeping a tank of water hot when you don't use it. DEFINITELY go tankless.....when my tank model dies, I am.....










HomesteadXing said:


> About what size would you recommend? And would it come with the tank hose to connect to the house? Or do we need to look for that separate?


I would start with a couple of 100lb cylinders.....you see them used for 75 to 100 bucks ea on Craig's list, or they run 125ish at Lowes/HomeDepot/Farm Stores/etc. They hold about 24 gallons of propane, and you can take them in a pickup truck to get filled at a propane seller. Runs about 60 bucks here to fill one. Buy two of them, and then go to a propane dealer and buy a "dual" regulator like this:










You can hook two tanks to it, using one at a time, when one empties, ( a red indicator shows "out of gas" on the unit ), you simply flip a switch, and go to the other tank....then you take the empty to a dealer and get it filled. 

Doing this will give you an idea how much propane you will use over the course of time, then you might want to go to a larger tank. 250 to 500 gallon tanks run about 1.50/gallon to buy...some propane places will sell them, some won't ( they prefer the rental income ). I bought a used one last year ( 500gal ) for 800 bucks and it was 25% full ( the bigger tanks have a gauge on them ), which when I subtracted the value of the propane, the tank was about 500 bucks. ( Craig's List find )


From the regulator to the house, you run either copper, or a flex stainless steel line. Best you locate the tanks right outside the kitchen/utility area so you keep the line shortest. Lowe's carries a nice "fireplace" connection set that includes plastic coated stainless steel line, ( 25' ), valve, connectors, etc to connect set of gas logs, or anything else ( I used it to hook up my stove ) all in a kit.


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

HomesteadXing said:


> Where would I get a tankless heater, I'm assuming that's a water heater? I know it's probably a dumb question, but I'm clueless about this stuff, but my hubby knows more and I'm just trying to find out the info before he delves into it lol. Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with TnAndy, Make sure you stay with one of the name brand water heaters, they are about as good as they come and some of the others are pure junk.(worked on appliances for years)

I like lots of storage for LP gas, so if the prices spike you are not caught with your pants down.:grin: As Andy said you can get by with 2 of the 100 lb. cylinders which hold around 24 gallons at 85% full. If it were me, and you are there for the long haul I would look for a 330 or 500 gallon tank. Then you can buy when the price is down at the lowest of the season.


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## HomesteadXing (Jul 12, 2010)

Tarheel said:


> I agree with TnAndy, Make sure you stay with one of the name brand water heaters, they are about as good as they come and some of the others are pure junk.(worked on appliances for years)
> 
> I like lots of storage for LP gas, so if the prices spike you are not caught with your pants down.:grin: As Andy said you can get by with 2 of the 100 lb. cylinders which hold around 24 gallons at 85% full. If it were me, and you are there for the long haul I would look for a 330 or 500 gallon tank. Then you can buy when the price is down at the lowest of the season.


Thanks all, I will look into these, and let my hubby know. Yes, we are planning to stay there for quite some time and make a home on the acreage, Thanks again!


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## crunchy_mama (Aug 7, 2010)

We live in MO as well. We have looked into solar power a few times and it never seemed like it would be worth it for us. I was hoping perhaps things had changed but it seems like it hasn't. Dh has been looking into propane for our backup as well. We currently have 2 of the 100lb tanks that we bought from the local classifieds. We are looking for a 500gal tank though. We have a propane heater for backup heat and we are converting the generator to propane as well.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Handling a full 100lb tank is not an easy matter.
Where as with a 350 or 500 tank you can get the "home delivery" . .much easier.......
And with the larger amount you need not worry about 'refilling' . . .might last you a year or more....

I have two 500's (300bucks each) that were installed and >pressure tested< by the propane Co.

if you do have a 'big' tank the deliver-ing propane people have a law and the right to demand a pressure test (65 bucks the last I heard).
I have the receipts from my installs so as to forgo the pressure test.
worth it to have it done and a receipt in hand........

ps With my own tanks I can shop around for the best price.......


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