# Anyone thinking of growing vs. buying corn for hogs?



## Fisch (Jan 6, 2010)

With the corn prices going the way they are, I wonder if more people are thinking about raising their own for hog feed. I will have to buy this year regardless, but am considering planting an acre or two to feed them next year. This in itself brings on a host of new issues: cultivation/weed control, fuel, harvesting, storage, grinding, etc. I have the land and some equipment, but still in debate if I'd really come out ahead in the long run. Any thoughts on this?


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## sherekin1261 (Mar 17, 2004)

We don't want to feed alot of corn to our hogs BUT we are growing in for our chickens, goats and horse. We are also growing it for US--both to grind into corn meal and sweet corn. We a re also growing oats, wheat, fodder beets ( grow to 20 pounds and both the greens and roots are good for stock) pumpkins and winter squash all for animals. This doesn't even begin to touch the garden that we grow for ourselves.

All of ours is weeded and harvested by hand. The corn will be stored on the cob in a crib. Beets, pumpkins and squash will be in a root cellar. LOL I will let you all know how we do  Its an industrious plan, but we are both here all the time now so figure we can put the work in.

Shere


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

If you don't already own the equipment it might be better to see if a local farmer will run it off for you for a fee or if a local farmer will let you buy corn straight from the field in the fall instead.


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## thestartupman (Jul 25, 2010)

sherekin1261, how much corn have you grown, or are you planning to grow?


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

None of the critters here are fed corn.


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## sherekin1261 (Mar 17, 2004)

thestartupman said:


> sherekin1261, how much corn have you grown, or are you planning to grow?


The corn patch is 30' x 30 ' Its not huge. But we don't feed much corn. We did like the corn crib storage as it was easier but not animals can eat it right off the cob and some don't digest whole corn well so we will have to crack it this time. We would do more but we have to be careful to keep the feed corn and the sweet corn far enough apart.

We plant about twice as much wheat as we use it for flour for us first then as grain for the animals and this year we have oats. I haven't done them before so I will have to get back with you on them  Our goal is to harvest and thresh some for us and the rest as feed. Only about a 60 x 60 ' patch this time around. We know this wont feed our animals all year, but will cut down on what we have to buy. We also don't have a huge operation. We have 5 goats, 3 AHHs, and about 20 chickens we over winter every year.
We also make use of any scraps/left overs from meals too. They all go to the animals.

The pumpkin, squash and beets went the furthest for winter feed and cutting the bills. One fodder beet can weigh in at 20 pounds and all parts of it are good for them. They are also easy to store--right in the ground if down south, In a root cellar up here along with the winter squash and pumpkins.

Shere


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Years ago I did grow several patches of corn for our pigs. Worked great. But bad weather for several years in a row have killed each of my plantings. Corn is very fickle. I keep trying. We're also on thin mountain soil. I'm gradually working on improving the soil, terracing and clearing land that used to be nice flat croppable land but the forest had retaken it in the last hundred years. Corn is good energy but just not something I have readily available so I haven't tended to use it.

The big thing is figuring out what you can grow easily. Don't fixate. Experiment. For us, pumpkins, beets, turnips, kale, mangles, squash, sunflowers, sunchokes are all easier to grow than corn.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project:
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa


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## Zookeeper (Sep 7, 2006)

Came on the BB today to ask the same question.

There are 4 of us, boys only here one weekend/month and quite busy with school, etc. during the week so mostly it would be me and DH doing the work. We both also work and have other homesteading chores, so just not sure how realistic it is going to be or whether it is worth it...and not sure how to find out except by trial and error...

We'd be planting/harvesting by hand. Currently do not have proper storage facility...hoping to come up with something cheap there from scrap/salvage.

We have the equipment to prepare the ground with.

Anyone know what kind of yield we might expect in GA? I know it varies based on all kinds of variables but I did a quick internet search and really did not find any answers regarding hand-growing.

We only need enough to feed a couple of cows and a few pigs. Guess what I am trying to figure out is not whether to try it but how much to plant so that we do not get in over our heads and have a bunch of waste that we can not handle harvesting. 

Also...those of you who said you do not feed corn...may I ask if it is due to financial reasons or some other reason?


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## sherekin1261 (Mar 17, 2004)

Well if you are feeding pigs and cows the storage may be easier as you may be able to use the whole plant. I know the dairies do that around here for their cows. They cut the whole stalk, grind/shred it and the cows eat it.

Another thing to keep in mind is any amount you grow, is that much less you have to buy. Have you considered the fodder beets,squash/pumpkins? Highlands suggestions are good ones  We also want to grow sunflower for the BOSS for our goats but arent sure if we will have room. Turnips work, again for the greens and the roots plus hubby hates them hehe so theyre all for the animals. All of these plants are pretty easy to grow and store, and they're nutritious for your animals. Its kind of a myth that they need corn. Corn isn't a natural food for them but its cheap and fills them up so we humans feed it 

Shere


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

As an interesting historical note, feeding corn to pigs developed not as a way of raising pigs but as a way of storing and transporting corn from the big production areas in the mid-west to the cities. The corn is relatively low value density but if you feed it to a pig then the value per pound goes up and the cost to transport those dollars and store them goes down. You see, transportation used to be very expensive. Furthermore, it is a value added product since bacon, hams, loin, etc sell for a lot of money.

We do this same thing with pasture. We're turning sunshine, which is free and hard to store or transport, into plants and then turning the plant forage into high quality pork. If I tried to sell lettuce in the high end restaurants I wouldn't get much but if I sell them all natural pastured pork I get a lot of money. Same idea. Meat is value added sunshine.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project:
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa


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## Fisch (Jan 6, 2010)

I've experimented with turnips (they loved the greens, didn't touch the roots), pumpkins and winter squash were iffy (seemed they liked them somewhat rotted and overripe). I tried sugar beets, similar to a mangel. There are tons of them here in Mid-Michigan that are raised for both sugar processing and deer bait. Pigs didn't seem to care for them. I'd like to get away from feeding corn if possible, but I buy feeders every year who are on a corn based diet from the start. I even gave them some slightly starchy sweetcorn on the ear last year and they turned up their noses. If it wasn't ground to a powder, they didn't touch it. Spoiled pigs, I guess.

I'd like to pasture them, but am not sure how to go about setting up a means of confining them in an accessible area when it comes time to butcher them, if that makes sense. Anyone I've ever talked to that had pigs on pasture said it was a disaster.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== Also...those of you who said you do not feed corn...may I ask if it is due to financial reasons or some other reason? ===


I don't feed GMO feed/food to my critters or the humans.


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## sherekin1261 (Mar 17, 2004)

I don't feed much corn because its not what the animals were designed to eat. Corn has a hard outer shell, most animals do not digest it well. It causes gas/distention in the gut Ever heard the term dog farts? Dogs fed a low or no corn diet do not have this issue. They actually use what they are fed and fewer firmer stools are the result. For people, processed corn products are in everything. High fructose corn syrup is everywhere. But its also in our medications as fillers, in our dietary sweeteners, things you wouldn't think corn, in any form, would be in. It all adds empty calories. And they wonder why Americans are fat and have high type 2 diabetes issues? Granted exercise would help and most of us don't get enough of it, but what we eat has a huge impact.
For beef and hogs corn adds fat. People like that marbled steak. We have all heard "all corn fed beef" But its not good for the animal.

Put them on pasture, let them eat what they were meant to and all of a sudden all the hype about red meat being bad for you goes away. There is a chart on my site that I was given permission to use that compares the nutritional info of grass fed vs confinement ( aka corn) fed.

I know everyone will have their own opinions on this matter and thats cool 
But this is why we do it the way we do. We raise it to eat for us. We want to eat healthy food. So we feed our food to be in a healthy way for them.

Shere


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

You have to also keep in mind that most of todays hogs are not the hogs of yesterday. They have changed over the many , many years. Hogs have been fed corn for several generations and have become more use to it. Granted our grandfathers hogs were fed a much differant diet, and corn was not used near as much. But we have lots of corn now and farmers of today are not going to mix up swill to feed their hogs. Farmersof years ago fed their hogs more or less left over what ever, stuff that was scrap feed from another source from their farm. Milk was seperated at the farm and cream was what was sold, the skim milk was then fed in a mash to hogs. Mash was what ever else was left over from the farm, could be meat scraps, grain, bread, vegtables and what ever the farmer had to feed his hogs. Now as the farming practises have changed so has our feeding of livestock, corn is everywhere and so that is what alot feed to their hogs. And corn was a very cheap feed source for along time, not so much now. And corn has changed over the years also, we went from open pollinated, high protien corn to high oil hybrid corn, and now to very high yielding GM corn. And corn has also gotten harder over the years to be able to withstand harvesting and transportation all over the world. Hogs use to eat whole corn and digest it because it was a differant type of corn. And you never want to powder your corn you feed to your hogs all you need to do is crack it and break it up a little, keeps moving in the gut better. If you do also want to grow your own corn you can and should plant your corn in hills, like it use to be grown. You can cultivate it much easier and harvesting is easier also. You can also buy Open pollinated corn yet which grows better in antique growing methods. You can also use you hog manure as fertilizer for your crop, as can fish scraps, clover cover crop, and even extra milk if you have it. I personally feed old produce, bread, and surplus milk to my hogs and they do very well on it. I know alot about old time feeding of animals and am lost in the new age agriculture. I feel you can feed your hogs whatever YOU grow or can grow in your area. And the more of your own feed you can grow the better it is and will be for you. So feed corn if you want and feed on pasture if you want, if your animals are well cared for that is all that matters. > Thanks Marc


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

The hogs of today were indeed bred to eat corn. Hogs are omnivores, which means they will eat about anything and turn it into pork. If you don't have the equipment to work the ground, plant, spray and harvest, you won't be able to raise much corn. Corn is high now, but so is fuel, seed, equipment and the spray needed to keep off the grass hoppers and root worms. I know most of you don't think much of chemicals, but grain farmers buy it and it adds to the cost of the product. Why don't you see if you can trade a hog or side of pork for enough feed to raise two hogs, one for you and one for the farmer.
We grind our corn with a hog supplement and mineral so it is a complete feed. DH has an excavation business. Sometimes he trades work for grain. As I have mentioned several times on this forum, most farmers will let you pick up corn after the combine has been in the field. It probably will be free or almost free. That is a better deal than trying to raise or buy corn. It just takes some initiative to approach the farmer and some energy to pick up the corn. We used to do this ourselves when we first bought our farm.


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## sherekin1261 (Mar 17, 2004)

Hmmm Dogs have been fed High corn diets for generations and no they still do not digest it. Yup they can live on it--doesn't mean its healthy. Pigs are omnivorous true. Omnivorous doesn't mean they need a diet of all corn and some minerals. Sure they can live on it. Sure they will get fat on it. That does not make it healthy. We can live on potato chips and soda-- doesn't make it healthy. ( We humans are also omnivorous)
Just because agribusiness giants do it that way does not make it the right way

Personally I do not want all the chemicals in my food. If you feed it to the hog and later eat the hog, you are feeding it to you family. You spray the tree then eat the apples, there goes your healthy snack. No thank you  We are not fanatics here. We just got tired of all the junk that is routinely added to modern processed foods. Since we have stopped buying it and now grow our own, we feel better. So it works for us.

Shere


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Sherekin, I'm interested in learning more about how you grow and process your feed since you said you do a lot by hand. I'd be interesting to know what percentage of your own stuff you grow, what equipment you use, how you grind your corn etc. etc. 

I know it's probably a dumb question, but we don't have a tractor or any equipment. I've been wondering if it's possible to just grow a field of corn, wheat, soybeans, etc and let the animals in to eat it, stalks and all?


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

sherekin1261 said:


> Hmmm Dogs have been fed High corn diets for generations and no they still do not digest it. Yup they can live on it--doesn't mean its healthy. Pigs are omnivorous true. Omnivorous doesn't mean they need a diet of all corn and some minerals. Sure they can live on it. Sure they will get fat on it. That does not make it healthy. We can live on potato chips and soda-- doesn't make it healthy. ( We humans are also omnivorous)
> Just because agribusiness giants do it that way does not make it the right way
> 
> Personally I do not want all the chemicals in my food. If you feed it to the hog and later eat the hog, you are feeding it to you family. You spray the tree then eat the apples, there goes your healthy snack. No thank you  We are not fanatics here. We just got tired of all the junk that is routinely added to modern processed foods. Since we have stopped buying it and now grow our own, we feel better. So it works for us.
> ...


Corn, when ground in to smaller particles, is quite digestible by pigs.

The "Eat what they were meant to eat" mantra amuses me. If we follow that logic we should still be feeding russian boar types of pigs not pigs that have been domesticated and selected for meat production for humans.

Jim


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

If you are eating any commercial mixes, anything sweetened with corn syrup, anything with corn meal or gluten in it or commercially prepared flour, then you are eating grain from plants raised with chemicals and sprayed with chemicals. Even if you have your own bees they travel to the neighbor's trees, garden, fields and pastures, so you are not getting chemically free honey. How are you going to supplement the pig's diet with protein. If you buy it commercially, whoops, it is made from soybeans, which by the way are raised using chemicals. Nobody said you had to raise your hogs on corn, but to say it is not digestible to them is incorrect. There are chemical residues that come down on your property with the rain. Don't be fooled, you are ingesting chemicals and pollutants every day. :happy0035:


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## sherekin1261 (Mar 17, 2004)

fffarmergirl said:


> Sherekin, I'm interested in learning more about how you grow and process your feed since you said you do a lot by hand. I'd be interesting to know what percentage of your own stuff you grow, what equipment you use, how you grind your corn etc. etc.
> 
> I know it's probably a dumb question, but we don't have a tractor or any equipment. I've been wondering if it's possible to just grow a field of corn, wheat, soybeans, etc and let the animals in to eat it, stalks and all?


We don't have a tractor either. So we have to weed thresh etc by hand. Its work yes but not horrible. I will also say, hubby and I are here all the time. We work out of our home ( he creates games, I do the artwork for them) so we don't have to go in to an office etc. We did grow open pollinated corn last year and fed stalk and all to the pigs. I have read recently that you can do the same with soy, wheat, or most other grains. The thing is you will need more room to store it if that's your goal.

last year we only grew about 25% of what we fed. We have increased to 75% this year. Alot of what we feed is things like the beets, squash, pumpkins, beans for the animals, soy ( hard to find non GMO but it is available) and other things. They also get all the left over produce we grow for ourselves. whey from the milk when we make cheese, cream we don't use, milk we don't drink etc.

Shere


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## sherekin1261 (Mar 17, 2004)

linn said:


> If you are eating any commercial mixes, anything sweetened with corn syrup, anything with corn meal or gluten in it or commercially prepared flour, then you are eating grain from plants raised with chemicals and sprayed with chemicals. Even if you have your own bees they travel to the neighbor's trees, garden, fields and pastures, so you are not getting chemically free honey. How are you going to supplement the pig's diet with protein. If you buy it commercially, whoops, it is made from soybeans, which by the way are raised using chemicals. Nobody said you had to raise your hogs on corn, but to say it is not digestible to them is incorrect. There are chemical residues that come down on your property with the rain. Don't be fooled, you are ingesting chemicals and pollutants every day. :happy0035:


Hmm  I do believe I did say we weren't fanatics...  I know pollutants and chemicals are everywhere. We choose to minimize our intake that's all. You still don't get it  NO our corn is NOT covered with pesticides as we don't use them NO our Soy is NOT covered by pesticides as we don't use them. We choose not to use commercially prepared foods--so again whoops NO our animals are NOT full of chemicals. For us it is a lifestyle we have chosen. No one said it is the only way. The question was, why we don't feed much corn. I have given my answer.
Go online for yourselves, do your own research. Corn as a whole grain is not that digestible. Yes when you crack it you make the starch more available. Starch is cheap energy. 

Yup animals can live on it. But come to your own conclusion about if an all corn diet is truly healthy. If you think it is fine!  Feed corn to your hearts content! They're your animals after all. 

As for what do we use for protein? We use poultry. We raise chicken and turkey and the pigs get what we do not eat. They think chicken is very tasty.

Shere


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== How are you going to supplement the pig's diet with protein. If you buy it commercially, whoops, it is made from soybeans, which by the way are raised using chemicals. ===


My house pets and livestock are not fed soy, corn, wheat. The dog food has none and no overseas ingredients. It's only sold here in the southwest.

Everything that breathes here also gets 100% food grade diatomaceous earth (DE) daily. It has 28 trace minerals and prevents sickness and diseases. Having used it for over 30 years, it's proved itself.

I experiment. If something works, I stay with it. If not, I change it.

The AHH are new for me and I'm feeding them Bermuda hay, raw eggs from my poultry, barley. They also eat whatever plants/weeds on the land appeal to them. The menu changes if I think it needs to. So far, things have only been changed once! And nothing is in stone!


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## sherekin1261 (Mar 17, 2004)

Oh I had forgotten the eggs Rogo 

Our AHHs get them too and they love them! We always have more than we need so this way they don't go to waste.

We do feed soy--but its NON GMO ( was very hard to find!!!) and as there are no soy fields anywhere around us, should remain that way. 

Talk to me a little about the DE? I have heard its good for parasites but am not sure how to use it.

Shere


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

sherekin1261 said:


> Corn as a whole grain is not that digestible. Yes when you crack it you make the starch more available. Starch is cheap energy.


Wheat is poorly digestible too when fed whole. By your logic we should stop using wheat since it hase to be ground. Man I am going to miss my bread and doughnuts.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

sherekin1261 said:


> NO our corn is NOT covered with pesticides as we don't use them NO our Soy is NOT covered by pesticides as we don't use them. We choose not to use commercially prepared foods--so again whoops NO our animals are NOT full of chemicals.


I have no problem with the manner you choose to feed your pigs.

I DO have a problem with you spreading misinformation about commercial feeds. Can you enlighten me on the chemical that commercial feeds are full of?


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== Talk to me a little about the DE? I have heard its good for parasites but am not sure how to use it. ===

Shere, no one knows why DE works like it does. Frankly, I don't care!

DE, fossilized plants from the oceans and lakes, has been used by humans/critters for thousands of years.

If the right amount is fed, it works. It also deworms, so I've had no need to buy commercial dewormers for any of my critters.

My large critters free choice feed it. 

DE deposits are on the land, but some of us have to get it at the feed stores!

Since the subject has been covered before, send me an e-mail for specifics.

[email protected] 

Put DE in the subject line.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Did you miss the part of my post where I said we ground our corn. I think you jumped ahead so you could try to refute any information that did not agree with your philosophy. Good for you for being self-sufficient. Let me ask this, how many years have you been farming? DH and I were both born on the farm, grew up on the farm and have farmed this place for over 30 years. We have tried various methods of raising livestock and this is where we are at the present time. Nobody is saying what you are doing is wrong, so please don't take the superior attitude that we who choose to feed corn are wrong. 
For myself, I would rather eat the chicken than feed it to the pigs.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

sherekin1261 said:


> Hmm  I do believe I did say we weren't fanatics...


I just read the first page of you website. It is so full of lies I can see that you have a perception of commercial agriculture that is incorrect. Unfortunately I know what I and others say won't sway you from your fanatical opinion. Good luck with your Pot Belly Pigs.

I am now off to the kitchen to prepare a Boneless Pork Loin Roast basted with a Garlic Cilantro marinade. I am looking forward to eating that chemical ridden pork!!!!


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Maybe those Vietnamese pigs need a different diet than American developed pigs.:gaptooth:


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Fisch, I have always fed corn to my pigs, as a part of their diet, not the entire diet. I feed steam rolled corn when I feed corn. Corn contains a lot of calories. Nothing wrong with calories when you want a critter to grow. But you also need additional nutrition.

I always make a mash of the grain that goes to the pigs, because they are supposed to get the most use of it that way. (Cover with boiling water, place a towel over the bucket and allow it to steam. Wait until it it cold before feeding it. )

I suspect that corn cobs aren't going to do much for your pigs. Shelling corn would be a lot of work, unless you have the specialized equipment to do it. Corn cobs can cause impactions in dogs that require surgery. I don't know what they do to pigs, but I would be cautious about it.

Potatoes for pigs have traditionally been cut and boiled. Pumpkin and turnips would probably be better received if they are at least cut, and probably at least partially cooked. On the other hand, they'll eat about anything if they are hungry enough.

Just keep in mind that starving pigs aren't growing at their optimum


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## sherekin1261 (Mar 17, 2004)

Oh Brother guys, This is supposed to be a forum where people can talk and exchange ideas. Hopefully in a civil way. I guess I was mistaken. I said if you are happy doing it your way great! That makes me neither superior or inferior in my views. I didn't attack ANYONE. I didn't call names, and I didn't sit there trying to make anyone feel stupid. It was a discussion. Plain and simple. What you put into a typewritten text is your own issue, not mine, since no insult to anyone on my part was intended. 

But since you insist, no, I absolutely do not buy into it that spraying a crop full of pesticides makes it safe to eat just because it makes more of the crop for the farmer to sell any more than I think tampering with the genes of a plant to make it "roundup ready" is a good idea. Selective breeding is one thing, a good thing mostly, genetic tampering is another kettle of fish. After all, DDT used to be considered "safe" too. There is no harm in being careful. 

However, I have also said in other posts that doing what I do would be hard to do on a large scale. I am not trying to feed millions, just my own family. If it offends some of you "long time farmers", I am genuinely sorry. 
I am not the only one who believes in doing things in a more natural way. I have plenty of customers happy with what we do. 

You say I'm wrong? Fine. Feel better now? Does it change anything? Probably not. So what. This forum is called HOMESTEADING today which, by reasonable assumption, would indicate that maybe some of the people were don't want to do the the way the factory farms do. 

Me and my pot belly pigs will do just fine one way or the other. BTW....I didn't feed them the way I was talking about here. They are new this year as we wanted a smaller pig to work with. I raised Duroc/hampshire crosses for the freezer. The first batch we raised on corn and the meat was so fatty we ended up disposing of a lot of it. The pigs we raised on the veggies and home grown feed were much leaner, but still good weights. ( 218 and 223 respectively hanging weight at almost 6 mos) so have fun with your jibes. 

For those who may be interested Watch Food Inc. That is what changed our minds. There were other factors too but that was the clincher. You can get it from NetFlix. Do your own research. And if you're not interested, that's fine too.

Y'all have a nice day now.

Shere


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Well that's how some of the rest of us feel, but if you start putting our comments in quotes and offer a commentary on every point we make, with little faces added, you can expect some rebutal. As the old saying goes, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." And by the way, I don't remember calling anyone a name or saying they were wrong in their philosophy. Now this is all I am going to say on the subject, so if you want to argue, it will have to be with someone else.


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## sherekin1261 (Mar 17, 2004)

I do not want to argue. I put the smiles in to help indicate I was chatting, nothing else so that people would not take it in any other way. Email and typed content can be difficult as we all tend to put our own "tone" in what we read. Its human nature and we all do it. The smiles didn't work. I quoted simply to indicate what statements I was replying to. You say I was rebutting everything you all said... isn't that what a discussion is? Different sides expressing ideas? You all dished out pretty well too.... the whole feeding natural mantra is amusing? Enjoying your chemical laden pork loin? Ok.
I am new to breeding pigs. I have said so. I have appreciated the knowledge shared on this list. That doesn't mean I am new to farming, raising my own food etc. But there are a million different ways out there to do it. The only person I have any real issue with is the one who claims my website is full of lies and that the whole natural approach is bogus. 
I do not believe so. But then there are times people have to agree to disagree.

I do deep apologize if my response to the original question was any way inappropriate. I will go back now to quietly lurking.

Shere


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

I don't know 2 folks who tend/feed alike, whether it's cats, dogs, livestock, whatever.

I've been asked what I do to reach the success I have and when told what I do, I've been told I'm doing things wrong!! -LOL-

I just fluff it off. I do what works for my critters and me.

It gets tougher and tougher to avoid GMOs for both the critters and me, but so far, all is okay. I quit keeping soy products in my house many years ago when I found out what U.S. soy does to the innards of humans and critters.


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## sherekin1261 (Mar 17, 2004)

What you're saying makes sense. My father in law was appalled we didn't slop the first pigs we had. We fed a 16% protein grower that to me looked like sawdust from our local mill. That was to the pigs that got so fatty.

I didn't cook the veggies last time but I did notice that they didn't seem to like the turnips as well. So maybe boiling would help. Would it hurt to add in the eggs when boiling everything? The chicken they get is usually the parts we don't eat--legs/feet, backs, necks liver gizzards etc.

I have also heard soy should be roasted. Is this true? We fed it fresh.

Shere


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

sherekin1261 said:


> The only person I have any real issue with is the one who claims my website is full of lies and that the whole natural approach is bogus.
> I do not believe so. But then there are times people have to agree to disagree.


As I said previously I have no problems with you raising your food they way you do. In fact I am a strong advocate for nechie producers on both this forum and in my daily work life.

You do have lies on your website though. Here are a couple.

_*The hogs are packed so tightly together that they cannot turn without having to fight other hogs for space to do so.* _

How in the world would this work? If they are so crowded that they can't turn then how would they reach the feeder or waterer?

_*Then the commercial growers take babies away sometimes when the little ones are only a week to ten days old.*_

Segregated Early Weaning was a tool used to help improve the health of pigs, but it didn't involve 7 day old pigs in regular production. In fact the average weaning age has increased substantially in the past years, among the databases that I have access to the average weaning age is a tad over 20 days.

_*They are fed diets full of hormones to make them get big fast, and antibiotics to keep them alive until they do*_

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!! There are absolutely, without a doubt NO hormones fed to hogs in the USA.

_*hens are caged all their lives and pushed to lay twice a day*_

Chicken breeders have tried to increase laying efficiency for centuries, but no one has yet bred a chicken that has a circadian rhythm which allows for two eggs a day. If someone did they would be millionaires.



I have said repeatedly that I fully support niche producers, but don't promote your product using lies about the commercial producer. Tell YOUR story, promote YOUR product and farm with your practices and theories, but stop telling lies.

Jim


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

sherekin1261 said:


> What you're saying makes sense. My father in law was appalled we didn't slop the first pigs we had. We fed a 16% protein grower that to me looked like sawdust from our local mill. That was to the pigs that got so fatty.


I propose that your pigs were 'fatty' not due to the feed, but do to inappropriate nutrition. Feeding a 16% protein feed to a 250 lb pig will make it fat since the excess protein will be deaminated then metabolized to provide energy for the pig, laid down as adipose tissue.


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## Fisch (Jan 6, 2010)

Sorry to have opened a can of worms with this discussion. I would certainly love to raise more of my own inputs for my hogs. With my market garden, they gets lots of good supplementary garden items to go along with their grain diet as it is. But if I really looked at raising my own corn and soybeans, that's not only a substantial investment in equipment, but time as well, moreso I feel if I keep it lowtech. With three little shavers under the age of 9, one being an infant, I don't have a whole heck of alot of time to plant, cultivate, hoe, pick, husk, dry, store, shell, grind and mix corn. In my forever quest to maintain balance in all things, I will most likely continue to buy feed (which really produces a fairly lean product in my opinion. Some fat, yes, but not really too much). Maybe I could adjust the mix. In a 500 lb mix, I was using 400 corn, 75 soy and 25 vitamin/mineral mix. That ran at about a 16 percent protein level. Anyone have any other suggestions? I would like to feed more things like squash and pumpkins as they have a pretty decent level of protein, but their maturity never really coincides with my time of pork production to make a significant impact.


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## sherekin1261 (Mar 17, 2004)

Lazy J said:


> I propose that your pigs were 'fatty' not due to the feed, but do to inappropriate nutrition. Feeding a 16% protein feed to a 250 lb pig will make it fat since the excess protein will be deaminated then metabolized to provide energy for the pig, laid down as adipose tissue.



I suppose its possible. We fed what the mill recommended for their ages. They were piglets when we got them, and were butchered out around 6 mos of age. They had access to free choice minerals all the time as well. All I know is that the second set were fed the way we feed now and they were not fatty.

Shere


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I have no idea why some of you on here say that you can`t farm without chemicals. I have to some degree for many years, and am pretty much organic right now. I started out farming very much the way most do now days and have changed my thinking. I have farmed all my life and have seen the light as far as farming goes, I also hate pumping chemicals on my ground to grow a crop. We use manure, cover crops, and crop rotation, it may take a little longer for me to farm this way but this is MY choice to farm this way, and my neighbors chuckle at me sometimes also. But when I buy a new piece of equipment, they think I must be doing something right. It can, can, can be done without chemicals, there are several farmers near me farming several hundred acres organicly, so never say never. Sherekin, does have some misinformation in their website, but who doesn`t now days. It is no differant than the commercials you see on TV saying their product for what ever is better because and they feed us a line of BS to sell their product. One product I would never use in big ag production is Anhydrous ammonia which is a nitrogen fertilizer. Nasty stuff that kills everything it touches, even yourself. This all boils down to do what you want to farm the way you want, but don`t come down on someone because they don`t do things the way you want to. I have good neighbors that don`t farm the way I do, but I still think the world of them. We have been brain washed for many years buy big Ag companies that chemicals are the way to go, you know who rights the checks for Ag colleges. My great Grandfather and Grandfather farmed a lot of years without chemicals. And my Father farmed a good many years with chemicals, and now I choose not to use them again. I feel my farm is mine to use and not abuse, and to leave it in as good of shape or better than when I got it, and I hope my children can farm it after I`m gone, and so on and so forth. Thank You all. Marc


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

I know quite a few farmers who don't use equipment and they don't use chemicals. They use their farm critters. Swine til the land, chickens smooth the earth and eat insects, cattle do something else, etc. And they all fertilize the earth.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I also forgot to add the old timers use to hog down corn, that is planting corn in a field then letting the hogs in to eat the corn. I personaly think you might waste alot of corn if they didn`t clean it up very well. Maybe fence off sections so they wouldn`t have the whole patch at once. > Thanks Marc


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

I don't remember anyone saying that you could not farm without chemicals. If so, please point out the exact statement. It seems to me that some statements have been misconstrued here. However, I am not going to be drawn into a fruitless and endless round of explanations.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Thank you, LazyJ. I'm a slow typist and you covered my thoughts quite well.
To me, a belief that there are dangerous chemicals on commercial feed and that contamination is passed on to us throught the meat we eat is fanatical.

Its a free country, people can be fanatics if that suits them, just need to own up to it when you are.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Sorry Linn, I missread a one of the threads, non the less you can buy soybean meal that was raised organicly. If you want to feed your aniumals non GMO grain you can, it will sure cost you more. I have never figured out how people do sell honey as organic, as Linn said bee`s fly for miles, unless they live under that magical dome in never land. Gotta run for now. > Marc


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

I'm going to jump right in the middle here and point out that pigs are absolutely the easiest animal to grow. Provided you can keep them inside the fence, which can be a challenge.

There is no "bad" breed of pig. They are all delicious. They all grow well. They all convert feed into meat well. They are all easy to get along with if they are properly treated.

You can feed them just about anything and they will grow and be delicious. Some feeds will make them grow faster. A different feed might make then grow slower. One diet might produce more fat, or softer fat. No matter, they will all taste yummy. (actually, exercise goes into the fat pig equation, so it isn't all about feed)

I've raised world class delicious pork on windfall apples. They grow slower than pigs fed on hog grower. So what? The apples were free and the pigs grew and were very tasty.

I won't feed fish, for fear of flavoring the meat, but other than that, I think just about anything is fair game for feeding hogs. They'll eat just about anything, up to and including cow poop, and they'll grow on it.


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## bruceki (Nov 16, 2009)

I'm planting 7 acres of corn this year and plan on having the pigs harvest it themselves; when it's ready, electric fence off a few thousand square feet and let the hogs at it. 

The area that I'm going to plant has been their winter paddock, and they've plowed and fertilized it already. In my area, corn planting season is in late april to mid-may, as soon as the soil dries out enough to till. 

Most commercial hog feed is a high percentage corn mixture. I figure i'll offer supplments so that they get what they require for appropriate nutrition. My local ag extension was helpful in coming up with a plan for that. 

I've planted turnips, parsnips and various squashes in the past, but found that I could get tons of squash for basically nothing after halloween, so decided to grow stuff that I could feet to poultry as well. 
Bruce / ebeyfarm.blogspot.com


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

A trick we found with this is to leave gaps in the planting so we could run a hot wire more easily.

I just got some heritage corn seed from a friend that I'm going to try on one of our winter areas which is rich from several years of being used as a sacrificial paddock. Some is to save as seed and some will be for the pigs and chickens if we do well with it.

I'm hoping for better weather. Last year we actually got corn where as we had a string of bad weather years before that.


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## bruceki (Nov 16, 2009)

gaps are a good idea, I'll have to give that a try. Forecast around here is for a wet, cold spring and summer. Hope we get enough heat for corn. 

Bruce / ebeyfarm.blogspot.com


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

grass fed vs confinement ( aka corn) fed.,,, tghere is a big diffrence between what you had written and what i am about to write. as everyone knows these animals. no matter what it is. used to roam in the wild. we for a fact have no real idea what they ate,, but i have to define the word confinement.. it is definitley not what my standards are, even though i do feed corn. it is ground with beet pulp and my grain has oats and sorgum molassess. and fine mineral with selinium. when i bring out the bucket they are all in line at the trough, but they only get it when it is really cold for the energy. and my calfs are started on it. till they go on pasture.. they are mainly fed hay. grass hay or clover hay.


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

and i do raise 4.3 acres of corn every year. for all my animals.. about 900 bushel.


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## GBov (May 4, 2008)

shagerman said:


> grass fed vs confinement ( aka corn) fed.,,, tghere is a big diffrence between what you had written and what i am about to write. as everyone knows these animals. no matter what it is. used to roam in the wild. *we for a fact have no real idea what they ate*,, but i have to define the word confinement.. it is definitley not what my standards are, even though i do feed corn. it is ground with beet pulp and my grain has oats and sorgum molassess. and fine mineral with selinium. when i bring out the bucket they are all in line at the trough, but they only get it when it is really cold for the energy. and my calfs are started on it. till they go on pasture.. they are mainly fed hay. grass hay or clover hay.


Judging by the piles of pig poop in the Wild Life Management Area I hunt, it looks like they mostly eat bunnies and palmetto berries - lol.


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## HeritagePigs (Aug 11, 2009)

So...if I was to plant a few acres of corn...and wanted to use it through the winter...

How do you store it? My desire would be to reduce my feed cost in the winter so I would need it to last. Do I need a special grain bin or something?

I've got the soil ready but for the past few days have wondered if planting corn was really the best use of the space. If I did plant corn could I overseed with clover then, in fall, harvest the corn and let them have the clover and fallen kernels?

Also I've heard that some heritage corn has a higher protein content than today's feed corn. Is this true and does anyone know of a source?

Thanks.

Brian

added: I keep 50 odd breeding hogs through the winter so feed cost is a big deal to me. I spent more than $12K last winter for feed and that included 1200 square bales of alfalfa / mixed grass hay and more bags of feed than I care to count. I know I probably can't raise enough corn to make much of a difference but I do have a few extra acres to try and do something (in addition to cutting my own hay on 10 acres) to cut down on the cost. If only I could find a breed that could eat rocks...


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## bruceki (Nov 16, 2009)

Why not an old-fashioned corn crib? Pretty easy to build, stores a couple of tons without too much trouble. Whole corn on the cob. To get the best value out of it with hogs you'll have to crimp, soak or hammermill it or the kernels will pass through undigested. 

My plan is to let the hogs directly harvest the bulk of it in the fall. 

Bruce / ebeyfarm.blogspot.com


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## windhound (Mar 18, 2008)

Oregon woodsmoke,
There is a guy up in NJ who is a commercial fisherman who feeds his hogs on fish and garden produce until a month or so before slaughter, then switches to a commercial diet and says he has never had off flavor. He said they play with tuna heads like they were beach balls!

Know a few folks here that also feed fish, early on.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

We grind whole ears of corn with clover hay, mineral and supplement for our sows. They are doing well on it, in fact we got 12 and 13 pigs the last two litters and each sow saved eleven each. The only reason we lost that many was because it was below zero and even with heat lamps on some of the pigs didn't make it out of the slimy stuff covering them and chilled before we got to out to the farrowing house.


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