# Hi :)



## 247haha (Dec 12, 2012)

Hello :sing:
I'm new to this website, and am sooo glad there is a place to talk about soap since I haven't met anyone locally who is making cold process soap like I am. I've been doing it a little over a year now, and I am addicted  

Well, I have a question (well I have a few of them, but I'll go slow one at a time lol) What does it mean to discount water? Like what exactly does it mean, and what happens to the batch when you do vs. not doing it? From my understanding it makes the bar harder and doesn't have to cure as long? I'm confused. I'd like to hear what any of you have to say.

Thanks!
:cowboy:


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Hi Heather,
Hopefully, by giving you a bit of my personal history of experimenting with soap making and liquid amount variations within my recipes will help you understand.

When I started making soap in 1999, the 'standard' CP procedure was to use about 37% of your oil amount for the liquid in your lye solution. That came with a recommended 6-8 week cure. At that time, there were also various HP processes; CPHP (crock pot HP), DBHP (double boiler HP), CSDBHP (closed system double boiler HP ... lid on the soap pot) and others. Then I became aware of CPOP (CP oven process) which used twice the amount of lye used (plus 2 TBL) for the water amount. Then I became aware of DWCP (discounted water CP).

Basically, you are trying to cut down on the amount of liquid in so you don't have to wait as long for the liquid to evaporate out. The only purpose of the liquid in your lye solution is to dissolve the lye and evenly distribute it through out your oils.

What does it mean to discount the water? Simple answer is to use less liquid for your lye solution that you did previously. If you were using 37% of oil weight for your liquid amount, then if you only used 35% oil weight, you have discounted your water.

Other soapers took a more scientific approach to discounting the water (DWCP) basing your liquid amount on the amount of lye used, coming up with a saturation %.

Simplified, if you used 5 oz of lye and 5 oz of water, then you have a 50% saturation of your lye solution. Your lye solution is 50% water and 50% lye. I do NOT recommend this deep water discount!

Other things to consider when discounting your liquid are the oils & the scents you are using in your recipe.

With a water discount, your lye solution is much stronger. Extra care needs to be taken because of this safety issue.

Liquid oils do well with a deep water discount. Oils that are slow to saponify also do well. Some scents do NOT play well with discounted water (florals & 'hot' EO). 

It is quite helpful if you experiment with single oils soap recipes and see how each oil does with various degrees of discounted water before deciding on what water discount works well for your recipe.

On Soap Calc, you have 3 choices for calculating your water amount.

Water as % of Oils is the default, with the default % being 38. Try this experiment. Make two batches of soap. One using 38% and one using 33%. Weigh each of your soap batches after you unmold. Every week, weigh each of your soap batches and compare the difference.

Lye Concentration is what I spoke about before. A 25% concentration means you have 25% lye and 75% water.

Water : Lye Ratio is just that. 3:1 means you have 3 parts water to every 1 part lye.

Using 16 oz of Olive Oil with a 5% superfat, let's look at various water amounts.

All recipes will use 2.059 oz of lye


38% water as % of oils = 6.08 oz water

6.08 oz of water is equal to 25.3% lye concentration and 2.953:1 water:lye ratio


38% water as % of oils = 6.08 oz water
6.08 oz of water is equal to 25.3% lye concentration and 2.953:1 water:lye ratio

33% water as % of oils = 5.28 oz water
5.28 oz of water is equal to 28.057% lye concentration and 2.564:1 water:lye ratio

25% water as % of oils = 4.0 oz water
4.0 oz of water is equal to 33.984% lye concentration and 1.943:1 water:lye ratio

SoapCalc gives you all these percentages, concentrations & ratios.


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## Tinker (Apr 5, 2004)

Good post Cyndi!


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Water discount is simply not using the maximum amount of water allowed by a lye calculator. MMS gives a range for liquid, but SoapCalc does not. Your soap may trace a lot faster and be harder to pour into the mold. The bar may get hard quicker because there is not as much mositure to evaporate, but the curing time will be the same.


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## 247haha (Dec 12, 2012)

Thank u so much! I will try to experiment 

I'm also having problems w soda ash. Some people have said spray w alcohol after cut well I
Have and there is no difference. 

We have moved and I'm not able to find my old soap recipes and notes which is heart breaking to me,
My old recipes never gave me soda ash like they do now :0/


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## shellmar (Apr 4, 2008)

My recipe is ash prone. When I sprayed alcohol on the soap after cutting the bars (I sprayed heavily) the ash would be gone, but the soap looked shiny.

I now spray alcohol on the soap just after it is poured into the mold and this helps reduce or eliminate ash without the shiny appearance. I use 91% alcohol.


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## 247haha (Dec 12, 2012)

Maybe I didnt spray enough on. I'd much rather have.shiny over ashy any day


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