# Setting your twist or crochet off the bobbin?



## southernmom (May 1, 2013)

Howdy again!
So I got my antique wheel all prettied up and ready to spin. So far I've got the general hang of it, though some of my yarn is pretty hilarious. I just don't know what 'normal' is in terms of how newly spun yarn should act. Some of it will just fuzz and unwind (even though i spun it tightly). And then it will be fine for a good run. 
That being said-this whole twist business. Do I have to set the twist by soaking, pressing the water out, then beating my yarn? Or could I knit off the bobbin? If this is a super repetitious question, just point me in a direction.

Thanks!

Edited to add: I have been using everything from freshly carded tufts to roving, both merino and corriedale.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Are you Plying it? If not, some knitting done right off the bobbin will aguire a slant to the work done with single ply.
I used to wash everything, mostly now, I steam on the knitty knoddy. If I spun up a fiber and it left color on my hands, I'd for sure wash.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

I'm one who gives all of it a good soak, and then a squeeze, and a couple serious whacks. Hang to dry, and then use.


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## southernmom (May 1, 2013)

I honestly don't know if I'm plying it or not. Off to research...

Ok I get it, no I am not intentionally plying.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Thwacking isn't necessary. Neither is soaking it or washing it. I always wash my yarn when it is finished because it gets grimy while you are spinning. Especially if it was a grease (raw) fleece, or maybe an Alpaca that was only soaked and lightly washed before spinning. The other option is to let the spun yarn sit on the bobbin for a day or two, that also will set the twist. One thing you do NOT want to do is to weight your yarn while it dries. Here is why. 

Ater you wind your skein and remove it from the niddy noddy it will either twist to the right or the left or hand perfectly in a loop. If it hangs perfectly in a loop it is considered a perfectly balanced yarn. If it twists to the right or left it means you have too much twist in either the original single or the ply, I can never remember which. Generally, it just means your yarn will be "energized" and they isn't a bad thing. First yarn is usually always over twisted. Let's say you have this yarn that is all twisty turny. You wash it squeeze it and give it a good thwacking and it is still twisty turny. Now if you hang it to dry and put weight on that skein, it will straighten that yarn out and it will look beautiful when it is dry. But keep in mind that wool has memory. You spend your time making something beautiful out of your "perfect" yarn and then you wash it when you are finished. Guess what happens when that yarn hits the wash water? Yup, they yarn remembers it was all twisty turny.


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## southernmom (May 1, 2013)

Thank you so much for that info! It helps me a lot. The original video I watched said to weight it so I'm glad I asked ya'll


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Heres a couple links on the subject.

http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEdf11/KSFEATdf11glossary.php
https://www.google.com/#q=knitty+how+to+set+yarn+twist

I know one is google. I was recently researching too.
I was looking for a specific page on knitty about this. The one above is kinda close, not the exact one I was looking for.
What I generally do & its just me, is too put it on a hanger on bathroom shower rod, & hang a weight, like a bottle of window cleaner or some such. Then Warm water soak, gently wring out excess, thwack, & then hang/ heavily weighted on clothes line to dry.
Its just the process I devolped.

Since you have the older wheel & likely not many bobbins:, 
I just prefer to wind off the bobbin onto a kniddy knoddy. I can get one huge skein of yarn that way. I just don't like changing bobbins unless I have too.
I posted some pics & method in this thread.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/country-homemaking/fiber-arts/514500-skeins.html


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

You can crochet or knit with a "single" off the bobbin. Those are called "energized" and your crocheted or knitted item will slant one way or the other. 

Most yarn is made by spinning up two or more bobbins of fiber, those are usually called "singles", I think. All the bobbins of singles should be spun going in the same direction. For me, I push the top of the wheel towards the right when making singles and towards the left for plying.

So, after you get a few bobbins of yarn spun up, put them on a "lazy kate". That can be nothing fancier than a shoe box with knitting needles poked through the top edge of it with the bobbins in the box on the needles. Once you have your bobbins of yarn arranged so you can pull the singles off of them, spin the singles together _in the opposite direction that the singles were spun in_. Now you have plied yarn, what most of us are used to seeing when we use the term "yarn".

If your yarn is all twisty, run it back through the spinning wheel really fast spinning the other direction. That will take some of the twist out of it.

If you don't have lots of bobbins to hold the singles until they are plied, you can make them up into balls or cakes and then ply from that. If I'm plying from balls, I just drop each one into a big gallon sized glass jar so it doesn't roll around all over the place while plying.

For washing yarn, usually it just gets tossed into the same gallon sized glass jar that the balls of yarn were plied from. Add a bit of shampoo or dish soap, put the top on and then slosh back and forth for a bit. Dump it out, rinse and then spin it in a salad spinner to get the water out. We have an oven with a pilot light, so during rainy season, I'll put it in there to dry, otherwise it just gets hung over the clothesline.


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## IowaLez (Mar 6, 2006)

Later today I will take a few pics of the weights I use, that Stan made for me. They weigh an ounce or two, so not too heavy. Made of wood and a stainless steel hook kind a thing where it hangs on the yarn. I don't use it to stretch the yarn so much as to just to get it to lay nicely while drying it outside where it can be windy and make ANY yarn look unbalanced. I, silly me, hang the skeins over the electric meter outside the carport.


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## southernmom (May 1, 2013)

All this info is so helpful! I only have one bobbin and I need to find some that fit the antique spinning wheel I have, or I may rig something out of dowels for my extra bobbins.


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

You'll probably have to make or have made new bobbins since most of the antique wheels are all different sizes. The hardware store should have various widths of brass tubing, that would be a good starting point for making bobbins. Then if you're lucky, you will already have a big cup shaped 1.5" to 3" drill bit that will cut a circle with a center pilot hole. Those make perfect ends for bobbins.


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## Taylor R. (Apr 3, 2013)

I like to finish my yarn because it isn't the most even (in size or twist) and it seems to help balance that out. Maybe when I get better at this, it'll be a different story. I soak, thwack it on the bath tub for a while (I REALLY beat it up so long as the fiber I'm using can withstand it), and hang to dry (using my husband's shoe as a weight :ashamed: ).


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

Not your own shoe? 


For folks with only one bobbin, there's something called "Navaho plying" where you use just one bobbin to ply from. Although if you only have one bobbin, you'd still have to take it off the bobbin to use it to ply with, now wouldn't you?

Hmm, a CPW will appear here eventually and more than likely it's only going to have one bobbin. So, is it easier to make more bobbins to fit an antique wheel or to figure out some way to take the singles off the one bobbin and then ply them from something else? Considering CPWs are supposed to specialize in making loads of fiber spun fine, it might be better to make more bobbins otherwise it will take forever to get the singles off the bobbin and somewhere else.

Just thinking out loud here, I think it's past my nap time, too. A hui hou!


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

Yarn ball winder -
http://www.walmart.com/ip/10660868?...59668350&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=34440684670&veh=sem

I work from a cake or a ball or whatever you want to call it. I'll toss it in a container to bounce around in and away I go. If I draw from the center, I make sure the outside loose end is snugly tucked in or vice versa so I don't knot. Most of the time, I'll slide an old toilet paper roll onto where the yarn loads. It wont fit all the way on but will stay on the end. I cut the end of the roll and attach the yarn, then make my little cake, and when done, slide it across onto the roll. If you don't wind too snug, this works and then you have an opening to use it on your lazy kate or bounce it in a box too. But, I have been known to go back to the very basic way of winding my own ball by hand off the bobbin. Then, put that ball in a box to bounce and ply away. Poor gal's crafting ideas 

Navajo is my favorite way to ply


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

Taylor R. said:


> I like to finish my yarn because it isn't the most even (in size or twist) and it seems to help balance that out. Maybe when I get better at this, it'll be a different story. I soak, thwack it on the bath tub for a while (I REALLY beat it up so long as the fiber I'm using can withstand it), and hang to dry (using my husband's shoe as a weight :ashamed: ).


I used to use water jugs. The jug had loop at the top to help connect to the yarn. I would fill enough water in it and screw the top on. Sometimes, I was so overly twisted that I had to use a lot of water weight to straighten it out. lol The day I finally had balanced yarn was ground breaking! Friends fell the their knees, children cheered for me, and the question was asked (by Rabbitgeek), "What will you do with your weights now?" I replied, "I will drink them."  

When you are ready to work on balance, let me know and I'll tell you how I did it. No more water jugs for me


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## Taylor R. (Apr 3, 2013)

I'm actually getting there, slowly but surely. My current project on my wheel isn't way overspun, which is AWESOME! Working on my drop spindles first gave me a good course in balanced yarn (and the twist was easier to control there), it was just harder to put into practice on my wheel. That Scotch tension had a learning curve!!

P.S., I use my husband's shoe because they're a little heavier than mine (and he had a pair of shoes just the right weight that he doesn't wear, so they're clean!).


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

I also use my spindles to see what the fiber Im planning to use is going to spin like.


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

Well, Taylor, there goes the image of crimson sparkly stiletto heels dangling from twisty yarn! Manly clumpy boots just don't have the same mental image.

Was it water in the water weight jugs, RB, or something much more interesting? Inquiring minds want to know! We could always start a new trend, ya know. Maybe for cotton it would have to be a jug of mint juleps. Wool might require scotch, don't you think? Sake or a rice wine for silk. Hmm, maybe plum wine for silk and sake with bamboo fiber? What would you spin if you wanted margaritas?

If you didn't have your spindle handy, Pearl B, you can also pull some single off the spinning wheel and let it wind back up on itself to simulate a double ply. Or pull three strands off and let them curl around each other. Sometimes I'll do that with a new fleece. Spin a bit thin and then pull it off and ply it by hand. Then spin some fat and pull and ply. Gets a lot of different samples really quick.


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

LOL :buds: Hotzcatz - I'm sure you're an awesome spinner, and of course I'm much better (lol :nana, but most of the people here could spin us under the table with their eyes closed. Or is it drink us? Or both? :facepalm: Don't drink and spin! 

A special drink for each special yarn...LOLLL


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## southernmom (May 1, 2013)

Thanks for all the input! I'm finally spinning a pretty 'decent' yarn so plying isn't too far in the future.


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

But now we have the big question of what you're drinking along with it? Was it a change in beverages that improved the yarn quality? Or was it sheer skill and determination? Inquiring minds want to know!


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

I'd like to suggest a spinning top cocktail! :spinsmiley:


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

I highly recommend plying - it hides a multitude of sins, as it were. 

I also have antique wheels, one bobbin each - I use the ball winder method, wind off into cake, let that sit while I spin up some more, then ply from the cakes. It works really well and a ballwinder is a very useful tool in general!

I wash and whack all my yarns because I am a woolen spinner, and I want my yarn to poof up and do whatever it's gonna do when it gets wet before I knit with it. I do not ever weight my yarn as it dries though - I want to see what it looks like just the way it is, the way it'll return to being after it is washed (after being knit) ... so I don't weight it. 

Spinning is awesome, so many ways to make pretty string!


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm not sure about the one bobbin each deal. The current wheel here (Ashford Traddie) has about four regular bobbins, three for the Woolee Winder and three jumbo bobbins for the jumbo flyer. Oh, couple of lace bobbins for the lace flyer, too. So, now there is an antique single bobbin wheel on it's way here (still not here yet *sigh!*) and it only has one bobbin.

Should multiple bobbins be made for it? It's a CPW which is a spin fine sort of wheel, so wouldn't that be miles of thin singles to unwind from the bobbin and try to keep contained somehow until time to ply? Wouldn't winding into cakes encourage singles barf?


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

No, don't bother with extras, Hotzcatz. They are very finicky to get exactly right and it's honestly easier to wind off than change a bobbin.

I have a spare for mine and never use it. 

Cakes only barf badly with super fine yarn pulled from the centre. The solution is to put a TP roll on the ballwinder, wind onto that (so the yarn doesn't collapse) and pull from the OUTSIDE not the inside. Even with fine yarn, it's usually no big deal as long as you pull from the outside, and it's best if you let the yarn cake sit for a few days before plying, to help the twist energy go to sleep.


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

^ Yep.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

frazzlehead said:


> No, don't bother with extras, Hotzcatz. They are very finicky to get exactly right and it's honestly easier to wind off than change a bobbin.
> 
> I have a spare for mine and never use it.
> 
> Cakes only barf badly with super fine yarn pulled from the centre. The solution is to put a TP roll on the ballwinder, wind onto that (so the yarn doesn't collapse) and pull from the OUTSIDE not the inside. Even with fine yarn, it's usually no big deal as long as you pull from the outside, and it's best if you let the yarn cake sit for a few days before plying, to help the twist energy go to sleep.


 I think even with the newer spinning wheels its easier & faster to just wind off the bobbin. Unless Im going to be plying that's what I do


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

I have bobbins coming out my ears, but I also have many, many projects going at once. Does this pic describe my life today? I wrapped some kid mohair with plastic so I could start spinning angora. lol You know..if I saw a special wheel that only had one bobbin and modern bobbins didn't work for it or I was on a budget, I wouldn't let that stop me. I'd make it work. I have to collect some of these bobbins around the house and off load them onto tp rolls. LOLLLLL


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

Southernmom - I was watching this video tonight and thought about you crocheting your single ply. It covers how to handle the energy in single ply (hot water/steam). There is a preview video down the page too. If you decide you want the video, WEAVE15 is a coupon code that will save 15% through 5/31.

http://www.interweavestore.com/spinning-energized-yarns-download?source=igodigital


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

First, before you look..I was spinning in the grease last night. Please ignore grungy hands  lol

Hub was spinning last night but he hasn't plied yet, so I plied it for him. Since we've been talking about one bobbin and working from balls or cakes, here's an example of how I do it. In this case, there was a lot more single ply on one bobbin than another so eventually I needed to ply from one bobbin. I removed it to the ball winder on a tp roll. I slipped the tp roll out and used a dowel from my niddy noddy initially pulling from the outside and inside plying. When the center was hollow enough, I put it on my fingers and rocked my hand sorta up and down to help one strand, then the other strand move around my fingers. I have more control to avoid knotting near the end if on my hand. I can't do this with really fine yarn or really fuzzy yarn that knots easily. In this case, I'm using California red wool. Very pretty with little raspberry hairs in it. 

Hope you are enjoying your new wheel Hotzcats and that this helps until you are able to find more bobbins.


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