# Some say that next fall (2010)big problems.



## remmettn (Dec 26, 2005)

Some say that next fall (2010) Real Estate will have big problems.
The Banks have been saved this year, just like the 1930 when they kept tax rate up till the banks owned most of the land. 
So the banks and Wall Street is safe. 
The ($8,000. 00 give away) will be done, Mortgage rate will jump up and jobs will not be that much better. 
The States got a lot of money from the feds to hire workers this will run out this summer, meaning the State workers should face lay offs.

I have no real go ideas, other then save and keep your head down.

Gold: well like I said the banks and Wall Street are safe; and they will not move to gold. 
:gossip:


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## Possumcat (Oct 2, 2008)

I have heard the same from my dad who watches all of the financial markets and pays attention to stuff way over my head. He said in Oct. the stimulus money that the states were given to "create" government jobs is going to start running out...when all those folks are laid off *bam* instant bad numbers for unemployment...plus, the states will have a tough time finding the money to pay for the new crop of unemployment checks. Just one part of the puzzle I'm sure....


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

Even in the relatively good economic times of the last 20 years, here in louisiana the state has never had the money to match the amount supplied by the federal government. And so, the amounts routinely given in other states were echoed by a small percentage here, plus usually no extentions past the initial 13 or 26 weeks, depending upon the year. This is written in support and to extend the info above, in Possumcat's and remetten's posts. ldc


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

Unemployment numbers were 'unexpectedly' up again this month and housing sales were down. I used to buy, rehab & sell real estate. There are lots of deals / distressed sales going on right now in the home market...also beginning to see fire sales in the commercial market. My buddies who follow the investment market put it this way...with all these bargains available on the market, you would think folks would be chomping at the bit to buy but that isn't the case as the average time on the market around here for a house is almost a year. Most folks are sitting tight because that either don't have the funds or aren't willing to take a chance. Bad scenario either way.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

I've heard things to the tune that a false sense of prosperity will appear via unspent stimulus just as elections roll around....

but it does seem like the cushy life is coming to and end soon....I only hope that the weather is conducive to growing good crops nationwide this Summer but it seems that flooding from all this snow will lead to later planting at the very least.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I believe the next big problem is supposed to be commercial real estate. Who exactly owns all those empty strip malls out there in suburbia?


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## klickitat (Dec 26, 2008)

I have a friend who works in the third largest law firm in the U.S. She told me that they have hired 30% more employees (lawyers, clerks and para's) to handle all the incoming business. They expect 22,000 retail stores in the State of California to close this year. 22,000 is for California ALONE.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

From the Telegraph UK:
Emphasis mine.


> *These are epic warning signals, with echoes of 1931*. Yet the Fed has just raised the Discount Rate. It is winding up liquidity operations, and preparing to reverse QE, _even though the housing market has tipped over again_. New home sales fell 11pc in January to 309,000 units, the lowest since data began, and 24pc of mortgages are in negative equity.
> 
> Fed chairman Ben Bernanke told us in his 2002 speech "Deflation: Making Sure It Doesn't Happen Here" that: 1) Japan's slide into deflation was "entirely unexpected", and that it would be "imprudent" to rule out such a risk in America; 2) "Sustained deflation can be highly destructive to a modern economy and should be strongly resisted"; 3) that a "determined government" has the means to stop deflation, if necessary by use of the "printing press".
> 
> Yet here we are, facing exactly that risk, unless you think one good quarter of inventory rebuilding has conjured away our debt bubble. The one-off inflation blip caused by a doubling of oil prices is already fading, revealing once again the deeper forces of deflation. Core prices fell 0.1pc in January. They plummet from here.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Things are slow at work, even though the economy is supposed to be up. They are making me take a forced day off today. I have to take a forced day off every couple weeks or so. They took away our holiday pay too. We earn paid time off, but I have to use it on those forced days off. No vacation for me I guess and I better not get sick, either.


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

Ernie said:


> Who exactly owns all those empty strip malls out there in suburbia?


While we may not end up 'owning' the malls, I have the sneaking suspicion that we, the tax payers, will end up 'paying' for them.


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## secretcreek (Jan 24, 2010)

State University employees are being told they will be forced to take off unpaid days this year.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Last few times I went down to the Milwaukee area to visit some friends and relatives I noticed a lot of empty strip malls. Unlike the media I am not so quick to break out the champagne and declare the recession is over.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

What about all those people who were cut off today from Unemployment? I heard it was quite a few hundred thousand to a millions who had exhausted their benifits.


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## Hobbes (Apr 1, 2008)

I was at a large family-owned sawmill last week. They have been in business for over thirty years. They said the last few weeks have been the worst ever - they said they might not as well have even opened the doors in the past weeks. They have a really nice setup, too. I'd hate for them to go under...


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

I posted a thread about the connection between AIG and Greece and speculation that US taxpayers would have to bail out Greece. Now, there's news that Goldman Sachs was an even bigger culprit in helping Greece hide their debt. 

What a coincidence that we just had to bail out AIG and GS, huh?.

Wars have been started over things like this. :lookout:


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

I certainly don't trust the "recovery" claims, but I have seen signs of stirs in production. I think if the government had left things alone we would have been seeing some signs of actual recovery now. Stirrings because the crash would have been harder, but the recovery would have been faster.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

remmettn said:


> The ($8,000. 00 give away) will be done, Mortgage rate will jump up and jobs will not be that much better.


If mortgage rates had been higher, say 8 or 9 percent, it would have been much harder to afford a home, and the people that should never ever been in a home, wouldn't have gotten a loan. And, all the toxic assets wouldn't be on the market, and our current financial mess wouldn't exist. Odds are, we'd have a different president also.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

seedspreader said:


> I certainly don't trust the "recovery" claims, but I have seen signs of stirs in production. I think if the government had left things alone we would have been seeing some signs of actual recovery now. Stirrings because the crash would have been harder, but the recovery would have been faster.


I think what they're calling recovery is simply a shifting of the economy. People are still having to spend money to survive. They're just deciding to spend it at Walmart as opposed to Whole Foods. A boost in sales at Walmart does not mean a recovery.


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

I'm one of those who finally lost his unemployment after about 18 months. I claimed it through CA (since that is where I BECAME unemployed) and it either just finally ran out or they figured since all the work I had done in those 18 months (both part-time jobs that lasted about three months total) were not in CA, I should contact ID for my unemployment. Problem is that I didn't work enough, despite having taken EVERY job I have been offered. Thank God for my retirement fund. I may not be able to ever retire, but we have food and a roof over our heads now. Money is trickling in from continued part-time, but flows out in rent, food, utilities and the like.


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

Regarding the question about who owns the strip malls, well I went to a b'day lunch for a 60 yr old recently, and one of the guests in his late 60's was very grumpy. Afterwards the hostess said he couldn't sell his strip mall on a busy artery in a new part of town, and thus, couldn't travel and do the other things he had planned. So that's one owner, an individual businessman. ldc


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Txsteader said:


> I posted a thread about the connection between AIG and Greece and speculation that US taxpayers would have to bail out Greece. Now, there's news that Goldman Sachs was an even bigger culprit in helping Greece hide their debt.
> 
> What a coincidence that we just had to bail out AIG and GS, huh?.
> 
> Wars have been started over things like this. :lookout:


The majority of the 185 billion that went to AIG ended up at GS as AIG had written the CDS's on lehmans for GS.. I suspect this is the same thing with Greece..There is no fixing this CDS problem.. none. It is only a matter of when we will be forced to deal with it.. speculation is that March 31st might be the introduction of a new currency ( 20 to 1) ..not sure what I think about that.. whether or not it might be true? If it is.. God help us.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

We are already in a depression.

All the green shoots we were killing were from government spending.

In GD1 we did not have food stamps, unemployment, any welfare - the politicians did not have the cajones to foist "stimulus" on the taxpayer either.

All of this largess keeps people spending for basics and, the hope is, that the economy will kick start all by itself.

But it won't until the debt overhang clears. This is not a typical business cycle/inventory recession. This is a credit recession. The last one was in 1929.

So it is all BS - all the pumping and the talk.


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

This whole effing mess could have been solved if all those trillions in bail out monies had been handed over to the registered voters in this country. 

Voila! Retirement accounts shored up
Ditto, mortgage crises eased or mitigated
Ditto, consumer spending skyrockets for everything-autos (ding ding ding) consumer goods of all types (ding ding ding) and a whole bunch of people would have paid off their mortgages and invested the rest-thus reversing the rate of savings decline in the US.

But what the heck, would have been too simple. The guy that owns the commercial lot next door to where I work, has the idea that the commercial RE market is going to go up as people look to other investment vehicles. Um, not likely.....there's no credit to be had for most people. 

It would not surprise me to learn that the true unemployment figure is much higher than the one being reported-keep in mind, many people "fall off" the list after exhausting their benefits.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

That would not be a good idea. Can we say, hyperinflation?


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## Randy Rooster (Dec 14, 2004)

Ernie said:


> I think what they're calling recovery is simply a shifting of the economy. People are still having to spend money to survive. They're just deciding to spend it at Walmart as opposed to Whole Foods. A boost in sales at Walmart does not mean a recovery.


WallMart sales were down last quarter. The higher priced stores sales were up. That is indicative of a growing confidence by the consumer.


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## limey (Sep 1, 2004)

Randy Rooster said:


> WallMart sales were down last quarter. The higher priced stores sales were up. That is indicative of a growing confidence by the consumer.


Er No! It means that WalMart shoppers had less money to spend and the wealthy were shopping for $3,000.00 handbags and other "neccessities".

Limey


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## Betty Jean (Jan 7, 2009)

Randy Rooster said:


> WallMart sales were down last quarter. The higher priced stores sales were up. That is indicative of a growing confidence by the consumer.


Or it means that the higher priced stores are slashing prices to compete. Of course I'd rather spend my $15 on a Christmas gift sweater at Macys than Wally world!


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

NamasteMama said:


> What about all those people who were cut off today from Unemployment? I heard it was quite a few hundred thousand to a millions who had exhausted their benifits.


Reckon they'll have to find work now. Any work. Of any kind. There's little incentive to get out and get dirty, if you can stay at home, watch tv, and still get a 'paycheck'.

I have my own business... I can't forecast more than two months ahead whether I'll have clients willing to pay for my services. I think I broke something in my knee a few weeks ago. A chip? Who knows... I'm limping around. About an hour a day, the pain is barely tolerable... I have to be careful when working around others to keep from screaming. I come down with a cold/flu on Monday. If I don't work, I don't make money. My major client has a time limit..... any day I take off is lost forever...

So I work, while I'm sick, and in pain. Unemployment doesn't work for me (or if some wizard can tell me how I can get unemployment while being self employed, I'd love to chat!!!). My insurance is my checkbook. I have federal workers comp that should cover the problem, but I'd have to take a day off from work, and travel 2.5 hours to the closest approved doc.

And, after working most of the day, I come home and feed and take care of other chores, usually lasting an hour and a half. Besides spending an hour in the morning with milking and other chores.

It doesn't matter how bad I feel, the work has to get done.

I remember unemployment comp... twas a gravy train... IF, they required people to take jobs assigned to them, at minimum wage, such as scrubbing toilets in rest areas, picking up garbage, etc., I daresay most folks would suddenly 'find' a job of some sort. The system is broken...


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I agree with texan! I've never been without a job since I was old enough to work. There IS work out there. It may not be easy, have good benefits or decent pay but it's out there. I've worked some terrible jobs until I could find better.I've done everything from picking fruit, timber cruising,gardening, pet sitting, factory work (UGH, never again I hope), housekeeping, retail, various entry level hospital jobs and more in between. I don;t even work in a field i got my degrees in:shocked:...It's been a while since I could find a job in forestry, and I won't likely find one around here. Oh well I say. At least I'm working!! and I celebrate that fact.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

In California, thousands of teachers are getting laid off. Many of my co-workers who are loosing their job will not be able to afford their mortgages. Now you have hundreds of more foreclosures and people moving out of the state. They take their children with them which reduces the number of teachers needed, so more lay-offs. The vicious cycle continues. And this is just the teachers...add the police officers, state workers, all of the construction workers (no homes are being built), etc. With less money for consumers to spend, Walmart's sales drop and they have to lay off employees.
It is really looking grim....


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

Yep, have to agree with texican too. Seeing folks thinking that this is a paid vacation. Some got let go from higher up positions and are unwilling to 'settle' for anything less. One said that she makes more on unemployment than they would with a minimum wage job so why should she work. She's been out of work for almost 18 months now. You're right, the system is broken.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

> One said that she makes more on unemployment than they would with a minimum wage job so why should she work.


I've heard that too! I'm sorry but if you are able bodied and of sound mind, there is NO reason not to be inputing some kind of work (unless of course its your hard earned retirement time  )!


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

NickieL said:


> I've heard that too! I'm sorry but if you are able bodied and of sound mind, there is NO reason not to be inputing some kind of work (unless of course its your hard earned retirement time  )!


You missed the memo! We crossed that "moral hazard" line when the government pumped taxpayer $ into the TBTF banks which then proceeded to pay the largest bonuses ever. So why should a working stiff care about morality? Which fits nicely into Obamanomics where the State takes care of you.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Yes, sending trillion $$$ or so to 'save' the banks from bust, was a bad deal. I too am self employed, and have always been able to get by. Still transitioning to TX from NM. Sure will be glad when we can buy something to live in.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

cowboy joe said:


> Yep, have to agree with texican too. Seeing folks thinking that this is a paid vacation. Some got let go from higher up positions and are unwilling to 'settle' for anything less. One said that she makes more on unemployment than they would with a minimum wage job so why should she work. She's been out of work for almost 18 months now. You're right, the system is broken.


I don't know about New York but here in Wisconsin the maximum benefit rate is 390. That equals out to a little less than a 10 dollar an hour at a full time job. Sure there might be some folks content to sit on unemployment (like the local drunk I know) but really that amount of money isn't much if you have a family or have a medical condition. For a lot of folks taking a minimum wage means that they'll lose their house and the ability to support their family. So most people are holding out hope that they will find something that at least pays enough to keep them from showing up at the local food pantry or homeless shelter. It's a gamble I suppose, passing on a no benefit low wage job in the hope of finding something that can support one's family. 

I don't think the unemployment system is broken at all, what is broken is this country's trade policies, immigration law, and laws governing our financial sector. This is the aftermath of those broken policies. Having an impoverished working class is not a recovery no matter how you try and spin it.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

This is America. No waiting necessary, everything is instant. We have found the problem, and it is US. 

The only thing that is coming later is a reality check.


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## Deacon Mike (May 23, 2007)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> You missed the memo! We crossed that "moral hazard" line when the government pumped taxpayer $ into the TBTF banks which then proceeded to pay the largest bonuses ever. So why should a working stiff care about morality? Which fits nicely into Obamanomics where the State takes care of you.


FYI, the TARP was passed under President Bush. And the banks have paid most of it back.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Deacon Mike said:


> FYI, the TARP was passed under President Bush. And the banks have paid most of it back.


A Democrat House and Senate passed TARP. Bush signed it. 

Some of the big banks have paid it back. Others are getting a real sweet deal. Heard about one up Chicago way that received $85.5 million (TARP) for preferred stock and just negotiated a swap for $15.5 million in common. There are another 150 in in for that deal. So taxpayers just paid out to banksters big time. It just gets better and better.


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## Nathan (Jun 8, 2006)

I also agree with texican as I used up all my unemployment in 2000,while in 2007 my child support took everything they payed,so I found another job that time real quick.I also have to admit that jobs seem to be harder to find now.


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

Phil Johnson, when family members still lived in NY state, one got $1800.00/month unemployment. It's based on how much each state contributes, and how much the individual was earning prior to unemployment. ldc


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I would not mind so much that folks spend a while on unemployment looking for a better job if they at elast voleenteer or do something to "put back" into the community while during that time! Of all the folks I know on unemployment, I've not known any of them to go out and give of thier time.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

ldc said:


> Phil Johnson, when family members still lived in NY state, one got $1800.00/month unemployment. It's based on how much each state contributes, and how much the individual was earning prior to unemployment. ldc


That's not much more than Wisconsin's rate, the maximum benefit in New York state is $405 a week. Considering the high cost of living in New York city that isn't much. 



NickieL said:


> I would not mind so much that folks spend a while on unemployment looking for a better job if they at elast voleenteer or do something to "put back" into the community while during that time! Of all the folks I know on unemployment, I've not known any of them to go out and give of thier time.


Most folks I know on unemployment spend the time updating their skill base by taking classes so they have a fighting chance in the job market. I don't understand why some folks think that someone should take the first crappy job that comes along. I knew someone who sat on unemployment for 9 months sending out hundreds of resumes before landing another professional level job. I don't see the point of working at a McJob out of some sort of guilt and then being financially unstable. Not to mention most of these folks who aren't so willing to bust down had jobs before that paid enough money to be an asset to the tax system instead of a burden like most low income folks. And if these same folks wind up getting another good job they will continue to be a net gain for the tax system.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Unemployment here in many cases is 1/4th what their paychecks were. Imagine having a fixed amount of bills and having 1/4th the income to cover it. Sounds like a recipe for foreclosure to me, as opposed to a savings opportunity. The only way to save is to give it up, not pay the mortgage, and send them the keys when the sheriff comes to move you out.

It's not an unheard of scenario these days. 

Taxes on properties in this area are $400+/month. That's just shy of one week's pay on unemployment. And then there is COBRA - $800/month. Mortgage - $800/month.

You're a goner in that case. Plenty of people around here dipping into their retirements to make ends meet. If they didn't have retirement accounts to draw on -> jingle mail.


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## Betty Jean (Jan 7, 2009)

Common sense financial advisers recommend having at least six months worth of your expenses in savings. This is why, in case of income disruption. 

Yes, I know, there are many who have been unemployed much longer, but my point is that too many folks in this country never bothered to build any cushion in savings, and spent everything they had coming in. Such a cushion buys you time to re-position yourself in a clinch.

I hope today's youngsters are paying attention to this, and our economy will swing back to a thrifty, savings oriented mindset. It may take a total collapse before that happens, though.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

We all know people who squander every dime they've ever made. There is no shortage of scapegoats to ostracize in this country. But going through our county's recorders office records indicate the biggest majority of property owners are frugal and responsible with their money. 

And then there are those who gamble big and expect the rest of us to pay. Maybe there could be some restitution if the focus was on the fraudsters, the gamblers, and not the little people who toil away at two jobs trying to feed their kids who get bashed if they aren't able to save 6 months of income or hire a financial advisor to manage their $7.50/hour wages.


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## Betty Jean (Jan 7, 2009)

pickapeppa said:


> But going through our county's recorders office records indicate the biggest majority of property owners are frugal and responsible with their money.


I don't mean to be dense, but how can the county land records indicate the financial habits of property owners??? The land records do not include information on a persons income or liabilities.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Betty Jean said:


> I don't mean to be dense, but how can the county land records indicate the financial habits of property owners??? The land records do not include information on a persons income or liabilities.


The show how many borrowed against their house and how much, whether there are liens against their property, how many refinances in the last 20 years and for how much, how big the mortgage is today vs. when originally purchased . . .


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

For the most part around here places pay 10 bucks an hour, hard to save up 6 months worth of expenses when one has a family. Most folks I know are a major medical disaster away from loosing everything. If someone wants to go around getting their feathers ruffled about people being irresponsible they should save it for the large investment banks that nearly collapsed this country.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

PhilJohnson said:


> For the most part around here places pay 10 bucks an hour, hard to save up 6 months worth of expenses when one has a family. Most folks I know are a major medical disaster away from loosing everything. If someone wants to go around getting their feathers ruffled about people being irresponsible they should save it for the large investment banks that nearly collapsed this country.


I don't buy that excuse at all. Move to a better job. Go to school to improve your skills. 

Lack of panning on their part does not necessitate an emergency on my part.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> I don't buy that excuse at all. Move to a better job. Go to school to improve your skills.
> 
> Lack of panning on their part does not necessitate an emergency on my part.


Because there is a limitless supply of better paying jobs and a shortage of labor. That's why so many are unemployed today and we import people from across the globe to undercut salaries.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> I don't buy that excuse at all. Move to a better job. Go to school to improve your skills.
> 
> Lack of panning on their part does not necessitate an emergency on my part.


Training doesn't always equal a job, I know that people like to think that but it isn't true. In 2003 I went to a technical college with a bunch of folks who were recently laid off. At the time the college systems were pushing IT heavily. A bunch of folks went to get a degree in computer science. Seven years later I see a lot of these folks working at gas stations and stores. 

The vast majority of people on this board want to live in a rural area. Well guess what there aren't that many jobs in these areas. For the most part you have a choice, make a decent wage and be crammed in a city or live in the country and be content with a low paying job or get real lucky. Just recently there was a job opening at a bean cannery about 40 miles from me, they got 400 applicants for 6 openings and wound up hiring people with electrical mechanical engineer degrees to put beans in a can. I recently looked at a job in another town for a city janitor. They had a the ridiculous requirement for a Bachelor's degree to be a friggin' janitor. 

Since you don't read minds I would suggest finding out people's individual and unique situations before being so judgemental. Everything you have could be gone in one accident, nothing is guaranteed in life no matter how much you prep.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> I don't buy that excuse at all. Move to a better job. Go to school to improve your skills.
> 
> Lack of panning on their part does not necessitate an emergency on my part.


Training absolutely dose not mean a job, my husband has a great degree, used to be a stock broker and he's delivering pizza for $4.50 (no that's not a typo) and hour right now and applying to Jobs in Wyoming in the gas fields and jobs across country just try to find anything. So far no job yet, he's every way over qualified or under qualified for most positions. He also can not return to school because he has too many credits to receive financial aid and we can't afford to pay for school outright. So please tell me what excuses is my family using?


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Everybody's going to feel the pain. Whether you're living on interest from your retirement account or a PhD scientist now hauling freight, incomes are plummeting and following that will be the tax revenues generated from them. That's when the government sponsored folks will start feeling it.

It will trickle down, and up.


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## quietstar (Dec 11, 2002)

It wold be wise for everyone to read and study the post from Texican. While it may not be reassuring or comforting, it's real and thats where we are. We must all wake up and realize that the cushy , comfortable life is not part of the Bill of Rights. 

Bank loans on shopping centers and retail lease property will be coming due in 2011, 2012, and 2013 with poor prospects for leases that will cover debt service. Massive foreclosures are expected that may drive the economy into that dreaded double dip recession. My intent is to stay away from this messy market unless I stumble across a small property that has all the winning traits at a bargin price. My gut tells me it's still hunker down, and look around time...Glen


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> deleted the insulting comment from deleted post


Hey give them a break. At least her husband is doing something to try and support him and her  People's attitudes amaze me sometimes on this board. On one hand almost everyone acknowledges that things in America are on the downswing. Yet then when people start saying how they are being affected by it some folks don't want to get off their high horse long enough to think," Gee maybe they are part of this decline I've been talking about."

Right now we don't live in some sort of post apocalyptic barter economy, we live in the economy of now and this economy isn't taking chickens, bullets, or milk for payment. It takes money, if you don't have any your screwed no matter how self sufficient you are.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

I believe that it is very hard to get a job (any job) right now. Of course there will be "some" people that won't work, some that have given up looking, and others that will ride that unemployment out just because they can. However, judging from the sheer numbers of people I know looking right now (actively looking) and willing to take anything to make a buck, I'd say there are more looking than not.

I have sent out 731 resumes as of today since last Oct. I have had two interviews. I have networked, called, had my resume redone twice, tailor every cover letter and resume to the job I applied for, followed up, and spend at least three hours per day looking and have been offered one job. One..that required a 45 minute commute one way, no benefits of any sort, and paid 12. an hour but have the responsibility of an entire department and overtime at will. I turned the job down because I must have insurance and I already have a job with insurance though it requires me to move.

Oh and the job required a four year degree with 5 years experience as well. I would take a lesser paying job if it had insurance, as on that salary, one can't afford to buy insurance and still eat. I am either overqualified or under qualified. How can one be "overqualified"..seems like an employer would want a person who could do more and is willing to make less just to stay in their general location. So I have two versions of resumes..one with my "real" qualifications and one that is dumbed down a great deal.

Our vo-tech school had a 20% increase in enrollment this winter. Where will these people work? There are NO jobs here except health care. If you aren't a nurse or similar, no job for you. I have spoken with several HR people who are friends of mine and all are saying they are not hiring for anything. If they do hire, they use temps so they can keep costs low and let them go without notice. 

Companies are doing more with less people, people are stretched so thin that they can't do their jobs properly but cannot complain either or face losing their jobs. Productivity was up again last quarter based on the figures I just read, but how long can people be productive working like they are without a break? Very hard to keep yourself sharp when you work through lunch and breaks and put in 10 hour days every day and yet, still see yourself falling behind. I do this regularly..I used to have fourteen people in my department. Now I have two. We are barely keeping up and the work increases, but no relief, not even a temp. I work through lunch every day, break? What's a break? But would I quit? Only for a better job and I'll keep putting in 50-60 hour weeks if I have to so I can pay my bills. 

On the other hand, unemployment might give me some much needed rest. lol..but that is terrifying so I am the hamster on the wheel.

I think people who say "well if you want a job, you can get one" are fooling themselves if they think that just because you want something, it comes. Heck I can't get a job as a secretary (overqualified) nor as a manager (underqualified) or as a farm manager (no AG degree - but 30 years experience), nor as a mucker in a barn (overqualified) and McDonald's isn't hiring. Not as simple as some may think to just "go get a job".

Yes moving is an option that I will take. However, it costs bucks to move depending on the distance - for me - 3,000 -5,000 to pick up and move. Not cheap. Many people don't have that kind of cash just lying around in the event they might get a job offer in Texas and they live in Nebraska or some such.

I feel for those that are unemployed or under employed. It is the toughest job market I've seen in a long time. I totally understand about the 4 year degree for a janitor..I replied to an ad that required a 4 year degree for a receptionist..(answer phones, take messages, order supplies, greet people)..uhm just how hard is that job? Not very if you have two brain cells to rub together, but now days companies are requiring degrees for almost everything to do with an office or corporation. (even for jobs that seriously..you really just have to have common sense).

Yes I think things will be bad and worse over the summer going into fall. Think of how many college kids will graduate in May across the country and be hunting for jobs and willing to work for just enough to pay back student loans..they will work for less, some are doing unpaid internships and praying for jobs at the end. That's the competition older job hunters face right now. I know several kids with Master's degrees that work at Walmart right now and are glad to have a job, any job. These kids have degrees in accounting/finance and can't find a job. But they have bills to pay and will work for 7.55 an hour. 

Many of these kids I talk to feel they will never own a home, and will never see the return on investment they put into their degree, but they know as well as I do, there is little to no hope of getting a job period. without one. If I were starting over, I'd be a plumber. Or electrician. Both of these trades are paying well if you can do the work. However, one of my friends in an electrician and he's unemployed right now due to no work. He does jobs "on the side" but it really doesn't pay his bills.

Things are different now..I don't know if this country can ever really recover and be back to how it used to be where one generation was better off than the previous one. My son is scared tuition is going up again..by 35%..said he would finish his degree and move overseas if he had to and teach. America seems to think learning is required but are laying off teachers and professors..how well can 300 kids learn in a lecture hall? Will education be the province of the rich only? Or perhaps a mix of very wealthy and extremely poor as the poor will get grants and the middle class kids will be left out?

Scary times we are living in.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

> Our vo-tech school had a 20% increase in enrollment this winter. Where will these people work? There are NO jobs here except health care. If you aren't a nurse or similar, no job for you. I have spoken with several HR people who are friends of mine and all are saying they are not hiring for anything. If they do hire, they use temps so they can keep costs low and let them go without notice.


Our state just passed a law allowing doctors to delegate tasks to any licensed or unlicensed person who has been trained to do that task.

Expect a flood of visa workers from across the globe to out compete college programs, college grads, and make state licensing boards irrelevant.

So much for those health care jobs.

It might bring health care costs down though.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Wow I want one of them cheap unlicensed workers to read my x-rays! NOT!


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

PhilJohnson said:


> Hey give them a break. At least her husband is doing something to try and support him and her  People's attitudes amaze me sometimes on this board. On one hand almost everyone acknowledges that things in America are on the downswing. Yet then when people start saying how they are being affected by it some folks don't want to get off their high horse long enough to think," Gee maybe they are part of this decline I've been talking about."
> 
> Right now we don't live in some sort of post apocalyptic barter economy, we live in the economy of now and this economy isn't taking chickens, bullets, or milk for payment. It takes money, if you don't have any your screwed no matter how self sufficient you are.


Great post Phil.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

sidepasser said:


> Wow I want one of them cheap unlicensed workers to read my x-rays! NOT!


They already are. Some of them use technology to have radiologists on the other side of the globe read images and write the reports.

There are places where doctors who have immigrated from other countries work in the hospital labs until they get their licenses here. Now they don't need one. Just need to work under another doc in the same specialty.

I hate to think what this will do to the educational institutions.

We are in for a rough ride.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

I have a difficult time with my dad, he worked at Boeing forever, has a huge retirement account, great healthcare, house paid off, no debt etc. Occassionally at family get togethers we talk about the economy and it's like he is oblivious. All along in my marriage we have been self employed with a small business(housecleaning), which is a whole other beast regarding how one lives, and though we've tried to explain our limits and responsibilities, he just can't understand it. For instance he gave us a week Alaskan cruise, which is cool, but we had to decline because we just can't go further away from our business than a day's hard drive--which he then interprets as my husband being a workaholic and doesn't want to do something special with his wife.

Not to mention dad is upset his daughter has to clean toilets--which I actually like the work

So far in this economy we are sqeuaking by with barely enough(which I am very thankful!), it gets really hairy when people don't pay us/take a long time to pay(which happens more and more). I get frustrated when we don't get a little understanding from him or even a pat on the back for surviving. 

SOrry to get personal, but the high horse stuff REALLY ticks me off, it does nothing to encourage or help people problem solve their situation, and just adds to the stress. 

On the other hand my dad is dating a gold digger so we'll see how that turns out...(okay, I quit screaming now)


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Since when is common sense getting on a high horse?


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> Since when is common sense getting on a high horse?


Since when is simple math so hard to understand? I guess some people you just can't reach :shrug:


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Wild thang - many of his generation are oblivious but until it happens to him, he will merrily go along thinking all is well. I have seen people at my company with 30-40 years of work experience at this company get laid off. One lady was laid off after 35 years, she had NEVER worked any where else. Came right out of high school and went to work and just stayed there. Thought layoffs couldn't happen to her, and now she is faced with age, and no other skills other than what she learned at this one company.

My advice is to never be complacent as all are just one pink slip away from hard times.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

At any rate part of my prepping for what most folks can agree is an unstoppable slide of this nation is simply keeping my bills as low as possible so if things go real bad I still have a roof over my head. At a bare minimum I need 245 bucks a month to keep my house (property taxes and mortgage payment). My biggest worry is if inflation starts hitting real bad my property taxes will go along with it  My idea is to keep my place looking run down but tidy on the outside and have a palace on the inside to keep the property tax man at bay. I think a crash in the commercial paper market will ease inflationary pressures at least for a while. The cheapest way to hedge against inflation would be to stock pile a bunch of scrap metal. You can get the stuff for free and it holds it value better than a paper currency would. I have a small but growing pile of scrap started now as my own cheap inflation hedge


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

From a hedging perspective I believe the long term issue will be inflation and not that wussy 70s stuff, but bold Beninflation. Helicopter style!

But right now I keep getting bit by the deflation bug. Seems as if big ticket items (autos, real estate, equipment) are deflating while consumables are inflating. Bad for everybody.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

When property taxes start coming down in line with more realistic property values, things will get easier. This county has a surplus. They can afford to shave off a good 30% and still get by just fine. 

Where it's going to hurt is in the schools.

Right now is just waiting for that other shoe to drop. And then the rebound that follows.

But before then, there are a whole lot of public service sector employees who should be in line for benefit reductions to match the smaller tax payer purse. It's just got to happen.


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## remmettn (Dec 26, 2005)

Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100314/ap_on_bi_ge/us_social_security_ious

For more than two decades, Social Security collected more money in payroll taxes than it paid out in benefits â billions more each year.
Not anymore. This year, for the first time since the 1980s, when Congress last overhauled Social Security, the retirement program is projected to pay out more in benefits than it collects in taxes â nearly $29 billion more.
:teehee:


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

It's not the amount ($29 billion) it is the direction (deeper into deficit territory) when this was supposed to hold until 2019.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

pickapeppa said:


> When property taxes start coming down in line with more realistic property values, things will get easier. This county has a surplus. They can afford to shave off a good 30% and still get by just fine.
> 
> Where it's going to hurt is in the schools.
> 
> ...


I've not seen it happen very often... I am a little skeptical here.


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

remmettn said:


> Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100314/ap_on_bi_ge/us_social_security_ious
> 
> ...


Think I heard that after this year and next, there is a projected a short reprieve of a few years where SS will be break even or slightly above. After that, it will operate in the red (more paid out than coming in) for a good many years. 

Looking at people like my folks who broke their backsides and paid into the system for many, many years. Seems they see less and less every year. Not figuring on getting much in the way of SS by the time I'm ready to retire. Glad I made other arrangements.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

The Baby Boomers will turn the system upside down as they retire. 

Not only will they stop contributing to the system but they will be drawing out of the system.

They will also be removing their private retirement from the system and start consuming it which will be bad for equities an such. 

SS and MC will never return to positive cash flow. The PONZI scheme is coming due.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

wyld thang said:


> I have a difficult time with my dad, he worked at Boeing forever, has a huge retirement account, great healthcare, house paid off, no debt etc. Occassionally at family get togethers we talk about the economy and it's like he is oblivious. All along in my marriage we have been self employed with a small business(housecleaning), which is a whole other beast regarding how one lives, and though we've tried to explain our limits and responsibilities, he just can't understand it. For instance he gave us a week Alaskan cruise, which is cool, but we had to decline because we just can't go further away from our business than a day's hard drive--which he then interprets as my husband being a workaholic and doesn't want to do something special with his wife.
> 
> Not to mention dad is upset his daughter has to clean toilets--which I actually like the work
> 
> ...


I can so relate...times and jobs were good for them and financially they feel bulletproof. 
And now both sets of parents want DH and I to take care of them...but don't want a pile of goat poop anywhere in the manicured lawn:nono: I try to explain that goat poo dries quickly and the chicken poo is really the one to be afraid of but their experience is limited!:shrug:


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## Browncoat (Jun 8, 2009)

We will look back on today as being the good ol' days. 

Social security is bust; too many people who can work won't and instead live off the hard work of others; politicians are doing their best to destroy the country to "fundamentally transform" it; many have placed themselves thousands of dollars in debt just so they could have the latest toys; the ecomony is in the tank and the dollar is soon to follow; and I could go on and on and on. 

It's only going to get worse from here. I don't believe the "green shoots" spin and "happy days are here again" nonsense, since the evidence is so overwhelmingly showing the opposite.


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> The PONZI scheme is coming due.


Never thought of it this way but, sadly, that fits all too well...


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

cowboy joe said:


> Never thought of it this way but, sadly, that fits all too well...


If a private person (Ponzi, Madoff, etc) did this they go to jail. But government can do it. We should hang the politicians for punishment.


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## remmettn (Dec 26, 2005)

Unemployment worsens in Spokane, Washington 

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/mar/16/unemployment-worsens-spokane-and-statewide/

The unemployment rates for Spokane County and Washington took unexpected steps backward in February, rising to 11.2 percent and 10.4 percent respectively, the state Employment Security Department said today.
Washington lost 22,000 jobs compared with January, Spokane 2,280, as construction shed another 3,200 jobs. Retail and financial trades added 400 jobs each.
The stateâs seasonally adjusted unemployment rate climbed to 9.5 percent from a revised 9.3 percent for January. The rate for the United States in February was 9.7 percent.
Employment in Washington has falled by 91,700 jobs since February 2009. 
âWe took a couple steps forward in January and one step back in February,â said Employment Security Commissioner Karen Lee.
:hammer:


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## stef (Sep 14, 2002)

sidepasser said:


> I believe that it is very hard to get a job (any job) right now. Of course there will be "some" people that won't work, some that have given up looking, and others that will ride that unemployment out just because they can. However, judging from the sheer numbers of people I know looking right now (actively looking) and willing to take anything to make a buck, I'd say there are more looking than not.
> 
> I have sent out 731 resumes as of today since last Oct. I have had two interviews. I have networked, called, had my resume redone twice, tailor every cover letter and resume to the job I applied for, followed up, and spend at least three hours per day looking and have been offered one job. One..that required a 45 minute commute one way, no benefits of any sort, and paid 12. an hour but have the responsibility of an entire department and overtime at will. I turned the job down because I must have insurance and I already have a job with insurance though it requires me to move.
> 
> ...


I read through this whole thread and your comments are the most accurate, balanced, realistic and compassionate of them all.

There are a FEW people who don't want to work, but for the greater majority who want to, the jobs just are not there.

Sure, you can work for BK or McD (IF they're hiring), but it's not enough to support a family on. 
Blithely saying, "Just do this or that" is totally unhelpful in the current real world scenario.

I would sincerely encourage everyone to 'stock up' on their relationship with God. He will see you through this.

stef


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

There seems to be a deliberate effort to shrink the middle class in this country even though a strong middle class makes for a strong country.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

fishhead said:


> There seems to be a deliberate effort to shrink the middle class in this country even though a strong middle class makes for a strong country.


Your dream team of socialists have been in charge of Congress since 2006 and the WH since 2008. It seems to be getting worse. Is Obeyme/Pelosi/Reid the fascist triumvirate? At least the left could demonize the evil Republicans as being pro-business. Now who are you going to blame?


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I doubt that they've done this in just 4 years. Must be Carters fault.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Stef said:


> I read through this whole thread and your comments are the most accurate, balanced, realistic and compassionate of them all.
> 
> There are a FEW people who don't want to work, but for the greater majority who want to, the jobs just are not there.
> 
> ...


I talk to God all the time.
Our conversations always end with Him saying, "welcome to the real world, kid".


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> If a private person (Ponzi, Madoff, etc) did this they go to jail. But government can do it. We should hang the politicians for punishment.


I'll get the rope. First I gotta take down the kids tire swing.


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## Deacon Mike (May 23, 2007)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> SS and MC will never return to positive cash flow. The PONZI scheme is coming due.


Oh, jeez. SS is not a Ponzi scheme. Don't be ridiculous.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Deacon Mike said:


> Oh, jeez. SS is not a Ponzi scheme. Don't be ridiculous.


Let me see. We need new payees to pay for the existing payouts. Actually, we will be down to about 2 payees to 1 payout soon. We are now in the red. What would you call it? A grand parade with colors?


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

In the last week, various friends who have been "consulting" and working part-time, while looking for full-time in their original lines of work, have told me that they signed up for Social Security, so they can have health care (stop paying COBRA), and not lose their houses. They are each 5 to 8 years away from their originally planned retirement age but had all turned 62...and not not been hired back at the old place, nor found something new...made me think. ldc


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

fishhead said:


> There seems to be a deliberate effort to shrink the middle class in this country even though a strong middle class makes for a strong country.


You got that right. When the middle class was strong and growing, it was the best of times. Only makes sense, the more people with money, the more money spent. I believe it was TR who said if there wasn't a middle class, there couldn't be a democracy.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> Let me see. We need new payees to pay for the existing payouts. Actually, we will be down to about 2 payees to 1 payout soon. We are now in the red. What would you call it? A grand parade with colors?


Now you know why they wanted amnesty for illegals, and more illegals and more amnesty.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

sidepasser said:


> Our vo-tech school had a 20% increase in enrollment this winter. Where will these people work?


I wonder the same thing. I also wonder if the smart play going forward is some sort of 'training', certificate or degree in a more emerging and specialized field. While I'm sure much of the 'green jobs' deal is hype, I also think the green train has left the station from a business perspective, and those who can leverage this may end up with a more stable career path. Despite all the controversy and fraud surrounding global warming and the like, the 'green' effort is likely here to stay.

In the future when there is a significant over supply of auto technicians, electricians, and computer help-desk operators etc who can't find work, there may be other people who have a one year certificate or two year degree in 'wind turbine inspection' and is gainfully employed in a field that will do nothing but grow and likely for decent pay and benefits. Possibly even working for .gov in some capacity. 

The path to promotion in these emerging fields is often fast-tracked for those who get in on the gig early, simply because there is so little competition for positions and a growing field needs supervisors, managers etc. Compare that to an auto technician or the like who is competing with hundreds of others for promotions or upgrades in a well established and possibly stagnant career field.

There must be websites out there that contain these kind of studies and data. What are the emerging career fields going forward, positives and negatives about said fields, pay rates etc?


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## Loquisimo (Nov 14, 2009)

Wayne02 said:


> I wonder the same thing. I also wonder if the smart play going forward is some sort of 'training', certificate or degree in a more emerging and specialized field. While I'm sure much of the 'green jobs' deal is hype, I also think the green train has left the station from a business perspective, and those who can leverage this may end up with a more stable career path. Despite all the controversy and fraud surrounding global warming and the like, the 'green' effort is likely here to stay.
> 
> In the future when there is a significant over supply of auto technicians, electricians, and computer help-desk operators etc who can't find work, there may be other people who have a one year certificate or two year degree in 'wind turbine inspection' and is gainfully employed in a field that will do nothing but grow and likely for decent pay and benefits. Possibly even working for .gov in some capacity.
> 
> ...


I actually considered becoming a solar panel installer. But all the sites that were promoting it seemed to belong to the government. I saw very little if any private initiative to create solar innovation, as we'd need. ALL the sites were just .gov fluff. I tried getting a hold of the teacher who teaches the classes, and I never did. Plus there's all the climbing around in very high up places. So I decided that the whole "green jobs" thing was more smoke than fire, at least for now. Construction has stopped here, and it seems that a lot of construction guys are fighting over a handful of green-tech jobs. Most of the newly hot job fields are stuff like debt collectors and bounty hunters, which leaves out those of us who aren't raging psychopaths. It's like getting a job as a mafia capo, do you really want to cut people's hands off all day, and if you do are you sane?


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Loquisimo said:


> I actually considered becoming a solar panel installer. But all the sites that were promoting it seemed to belong to the government. I saw very little if any private initiative to create solar innovation, as we'd need. ALL the sites were just .gov fluff. I tried getting a hold of the teacher who teaches the classes, and I never did. Plus there's all the climbing around in very high up places. So I decided that the whole "green jobs" thing was more smoke than fire, at least for now. Construction has stopped here, and it seems that a lot of construction guys are fighting over a handful of green-tech jobs. Most of the newly hot job fields are stuff like debt collectors and bounty hunters, which leaves out those of us who aren't raging psychopaths. It's like getting a job as a mafia capo, do you really want to cut people's hands off all day, and if you do are you sane?


I looked into training in nanotechnology. It appears the government funding for nanotech upstarts is mingled together with training, and the only classes being taught are at the community college level in a special program only for spanish speaking residents of New Mexico.

Once again, we're paying to sell ourselves down the river. 

It doesn't take a genius to figure out where those jobs and companies will be starting out.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

NamasteMama said:


> Training absolutely dose not mean a job, my husband has a great degree, used to be a stock broker and he's delivering pizza for $4.50 (no that's not a typo) and hour right now and applying to Jobs in Wyoming in the gas fields and jobs across country just try to find anything. So far no job yet, he's every way over qualified or under qualified for most positions. He also can not return to school because he has too many credits to receive financial aid and we can't afford to pay for school outright. So please tell me what excuses is my family using?


There may be some jobs in the oilfield, where you can email, fax, or mail in a resume. From my experience (was raised in the oilpatch, my father worked his way from worm to region boss), if you don't walk in the door, shake some hands, and make an impression, you're not getting a job.

Now, if someone is looking at CEO, IT, or 'white collar' position, yeah, maybe it'd work...

But, if you want work, it's gotta be on site. Kind of work that results in Lava Soap being used, before you 'wash' your hands.

High school kids are walking into 40K jobs here. 21 year olds can start driving locally (saltwater/vacuum trucks) (((even without any kind of education... have a 10th grade graduate cousin making over 50K/year))) and make good money.

Good luck... does hubby get all the free pizza he wants? as a perk? I love pizza but rarely if ever get any.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

wyld thang said:


> I have a difficult time with my dad, he worked at Boeing forever, has a huge retirement account, great healthcare, house paid off, no debt etc. Occassionally at family get togethers we talk about the economy and it's like he is oblivious. All along in my marriage we have been self employed with a small business(housecleaning), which is a whole other beast regarding how one lives, and though we've tried to explain our limits and responsibilities, he just can't understand it. For instance he gave us a week Alaskan cruise, which is cool, but we had to decline because we just can't go further away from our business than a day's hard drive--which he then interprets as my husband being a workaholic and doesn't want to do something special with his wife.
> 
> Not to mention dad is upset his daughter has to clean toilets--which I actually like the work
> 
> ...


Sure you know this... wonder if your pa does...

If the economy really tanks, that mailbox money (pension) will evaporate instantly. 

I've even heard rumors of the govt. taking all pensions, for themselves.

If I lived on a pension, I'd be a very very nervous camper.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Forerunner said:


> I talk to God all the time.
> Our conversations always end with Him saying, "welcome to the real world, kid".


There you go!


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Sorry for four in a row... I haven't had a chance to log on as much as usual...

Folks, if you think it's bad now, like others have already mentioned, these (bad as they are) could be the 'good ol days'.

Some jobs are never coming back. Never. Folks can cling to non existent hope, or get over it. And move on.

Good 'jobs' in the future, might be some wages, sans all benefits. We're in a death spiral already... everything the govt. does to help, actually speeds up the death spiral. At some point, we'll go under the foam at the bottom of the whirlpool. What I'm trying to do is hold onto whatever I can, learning everything I can to survive after the final plunge.... People that insist on thinking they're coming out of the spiral are doomed. There is no way out. Best to go down the rabbit hole and be prepared for what's on the other side.

I have a good business now... but I don't have any illusions... it could end next week... and never come back. I should be getting some huge paydays (year's worth of work in one chunk) but knowing how fickle things are, I won't be going out and spending it all at once. I have a prioritized list of things to buy... basically spending on stuff I know I'm going to use in the next few years, buy it now, to avoid inflation (And, to have the goods here instead of some warehouse on the other side of the country).


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

texican said:


> Sure you know this... wonder if your pa does...
> 
> If the economy really tanks, that mailbox money (pension) will evaporate instantly.
> 
> ...


I'd be doing exactly what wildthang's Dad is doing and date a gold digger. In fact more than one!" Live while yer living cause yer a long time dead" is what I live by.:gaptooth:


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Ya gots to make your own job. 
Seriously, those who did not plan ahead during the good times of the last 10, 20 , 30 years, [depending on your age], are not going to EVER get anything better. Most every body talks about needing to pay for healthcare. Sorry, but 70-80% of the worlds population does not have it. If you can't get healthcare, you are going to die. Even if you have healthcare, you are going to die. 

Thankfully, I have been blessed with excellent health all my life, and I ate well as a child, even when my dad was a low paid GS [civil service] worker.

Folks, we aren't going back. The good old days are gone, the harsh reality of life is that we are going to toil. The era of US prosperity is ending, with potential anarchy and civil unrest taking it's place.

Plan on having the same car for 20 years, with no AC, balding tires, etc. Plan on wearing patched, old clothes for 3-5 years or even more. Plan on no cable/dish TV, no cell phones, no computer games, no netflix even.

It will be survival only, barely living if at all. Just like the majority of the world. The difference between the majority of the US population and the rest of the worlds population is diminishing.

Regarding moving for jobs. The whole family does not have to move, simply send the main breadwinner out [normally husband] have him travel away from home for work for 6 months or a year. He can live in his car if he has to, I have done so from time to time. Send the paycheck home to cover the bills.

It's crummy being separated, but necessity makes one do unpleasant things.

I'm sorry to hear about those in tough situations, we have had our daughter living with us for the past 2 years as she is a single mom. Not fun, & often very stressful.

Better post this before my page times out.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

I agree GCM, good post!


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

ha, you guys are funny 

I think my dad is set up relatively well, his money is spread around in realtively safe stocks(what there is in stocks) and his stuff is paid off. I dont' begrudge him at all for having fun with his money--he earned it, he worked very hard! 

My main thing with him is that he has a blind side to how precarious it is for me and my sister's families to make money in this day and age--he just thinks "stuff" is not that bad at all( he's stuck in 1960 something?). RIght now we are blessed to make enough, just enough, but it's NOT guaranteed and the whole thing is very day to day. He got his job at Boeing and worked there for 50 years, and always had security there because he had valuable talent. 

Ha, and someone mentioned parents not liking mud/animals, that is totally how it is too, I had to beg my parents for an outdoor cat growing up(didn't get one till a stray showed up)--just not animal people. My dad hates dogs and we have two mid/big dogs and 6 cats, and the general dirt. FUnny, though, he "loves" the gold digger's neurotic king charles spaniel who poops and barfs on everything


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

If I was in his shoes, a barfing dog would be the least of my problems.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

With both the Conservatives (Tea Party, etc.) and the left-wing (La Raza, etc.) scheduled to have large demonstrations in DC this weekend, we might not have to wait until this fall for the bad times to begin.

Kathleen


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## remmettn (Dec 26, 2005)

So it has been 3 months, now how do we feel?
Will the financial system make it to the fall?
:shrug::l33t:

I hate being Henny penny.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

100% I believe the system will fail, its slowly happening right now, but its so slow that its har for some to say the poop hit the fan. I think of it like a house of cards, right now there is a breeze blowing a few random cards away to reveal the instability of our country. One day a big gust will come and bring the whole thing down in one fell swoop. I think hindsight will be 20/20 on this one.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

remmettn said:


> So it has been 3 months, now how do we feel?
> Will the financial system make it to the fall?
> :shrug::l33t:
> 
> I hate being Henny penny.


Short answer "Nope". I doubt July 4 will be pleasant for anyone in the U.S. 
"Flash Crash"... = Butter Scotch...B instead of M = *B*utter *S*cotch
BP= Award for safetey in April of 2010, then goes "BOOM".
OCare...we all know that one
Wall Street reform = Rehash of Healthcare reform = 
Az re-enforcing the Fed law = appologies to dictatorship nations
Freddie=Fannie=FEMA=SocialSecurity=*BANKRUPT*
GM now = Gvmnt Motors
Cap and Trade=Finacial Reform= KYAGB
Today=The first day of the rest of your life
Kleenex= a definite BUY BUY BUY!!!!!
Matt


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

sidepasser said:


> I believe that it is very hard to get a job (any job) right now. Of course there will be "some" people that won't work, some that have given up looking, and others that will ride that unemployment out just because they can. However, judging from the sheer numbers of people I know looking right now (actively looking) and willing to take anything to make a buck, I'd say there are more looking than not.
> 
> I have sent out 731 resumes as of today since last Oct. I have had two interviews. I have networked, called, had my resume redone twice, tailor every cover letter and resume to the job I applied for, followed up, and spend at least three hours per day looking and have been offered one job. One..that required a 45 minute commute one way, no benefits of any sort, and paid 12. an hour but have the responsibility of an entire department and overtime at will. I turned the job down because I must have insurance and I already have a job with insurance though it requires me to move.
> 
> ...


This possibly may be one of the best posts I've ever read on HT.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Here is some stuff that I'm seeing in the economy:

I ebay for a living. Before the economy crashed, sales were booming. Sales fell off significantly after the fall of the economy, but were still decent. Since late last fall, sales have been absolutely horrid. For instance, I have three items on ebay that used to sell like hot cakes. They were high profit items, and we jokingly referred to them as the cash cow or the tri-fecta. It used to be easy to sell 5 of those deals a week. I just sold my first tri-fecta in 5 months...that is no joke.

It is incredible to me how little is selling on ebay, and the low prices that items are selling for. I have some tools that would have brought $50 each a few years ago. They aren't even bringing $10 on ebay these days. On the flip side, I've bought a few absolute bargains recently. I bought a brand new pair of $169 boots for $29 shipped to my door. It is almost surreal.

I also do some flea marketing, and sales are just awful. A few years ago, anything you set out would sell. People bought stuff like crazy. These days, items that should be selling like hot cakes, especially because of price and need, are sitting on my shelves. Those items are selling one here, and another one there. Two years ago, people were buying 6 to 10 at a time, and literally wiping our shelves clear of items.

The flea market is full of shoppers, but they are being super selective with purchases.

I've been watching shoppers at places like TSC, and while they still have buyers, it appears that people are only buying items they need.

In a nutshell, I have a hard time believing this economy is on an upswing, and I cannot see the economy improving much for a long, long time.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

After November, I'd say it's all going to change. Things are being proped up right now. Now that the Dems aren't getting voted back in, the change could happen before.Also the Gov. would like uprisings to happen in winter, people will be more willing to give in to the gov. when cold and hungry.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

There are so many bad things going on right now.. it is really hard for me to see how anyone can honestly say things are getting better... just look at the Euro Zone and Greece, China's own problems as well as their warning to the US to "get our act together or else" Tensions in several places from Greece to Thailand..Iran/ NK..The leak in the Gulf ...Unemployment claims up higher again.. the market volatility.. deflationary oil prices... VIX rising which is showing how fearful investors are... it is a mess out there that is for sure.. the pot seems to be boiling over and It is all more than a little disconcerning...


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## Ohiogal (Mar 15, 2007)

So has anyone put the pin on the time when things start imploding? The Euro is going to be the trigger, sad to say.
I think in Sept of this year, when things come due debt wise at the national level for the US, and before the elections in November which will sweep the Dem's and any incumbants who voted against the people and for their own pockets - out office. Only it will be too late  to offset the damage.
I'm rushing around like crazy settling things out and preparing. Its not easy and its like looking at a huge black hole in the distance. And its rapidly approaching!


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

I think that by mid-summer you will start to see some serious things going on. I'm not making any prophecies, just going on what I'm seeing happening right now. North Korea/South Korea; Iran/Syria/Lebanon/Israel; economic stuff -- we are facing what looks like it could be a 'perfect storm,' and a lot of people who ARE in a position to know things are making some very serious warnings for late June/early July. 

I HOPE that they are wrong, but it's best to be prepared for the worst AND for the best, as much as possible. In other words, right now, don't do anything that would hurt you if nothing bad really happens, but you don't want to be sitting there twiddling your thumbs, either.

My guess -- not prophecy -- would be that the economy is coming down world-wide, and TPTB will make sure we get a war to cover up their malfeasance. It won't make a whole lot of difference in the results that we see on our level -- expect to see the internet cut off, food and fuel prices skyrocket, and probably a lot of disruption in the larger cities. Who knows where things will go from there, but we are more likely to end up with martial law and a dictatorship than with anarchy and Mad Max.

Have a plan, and make sure you are right with God.

JMO.

Kathleen


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Yahoo has a big front page artcile on wall street tanking today.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Stocks-tumble-as-euro-drops-apf-2425241358.html?x=0


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

Who knows what to believe these days, the only thing certain is uncertainty.

This recent article suggests the possibility of a strong crash before year-end, yet other articles I read say things will get worse in 2011, and in my local area hiring has been picking up for those in demand career fields or those with specialized skills, or advanced degrees.

I believe that there is a possibility of a somewhat sudden crash, but I think a more likely scenario is that the 'economy' such that it is can ride along in a coma for a number of years, or operate in a steadily declining state for many years as it has been doing for some time now. This scenario is just like the frog in the boiling water concept except instead of the frog it is the middle class that is getting slowly but surely killed. As twisted as this sounds it almost seems like a real crash (not just dramatic dips in the market now and then) would be more beneficial for the long haul in our country.

Manufacturing companies are moving to those business friendly states at a rapid rate so the writing is on the wall for those who want to work in manufacturing or related fields. The bulk of the rest of the economy will continue to move towards a service sector economy (mostly already there), and some tech industries scattered here and there.

For those of us with children it is critically important to provide guidance in terms of career fields, education etc. The trade and most 'professional' schools are over filled with students expecting a job upon graduation, yet the career fields in many of these areas are already overly saturated. Our children must be able to differentiate themselves from their career field competition. The new economy favors those with advanced degrees or training in niche or new and upcoming tech fields where competition for open slots is still relatively small. Aside from the career aspect the new economy also favors those who live below their means, take personal responsibility for their own retirement, and have skills, knowledge and resources to be somewhat self-sufficient. This second item is particularly critical if you enter into a career field that has a low income structure.



> 2010's coming stock market crash: 1987 all over again
> (Fortune) -- In two tumultuous weeks in October 1987, the stock market shed nearly one-third of its value in perhaps the second most notorious crash in U.S. history. It could happen again. Don't be deceived by the rebounding economy, any more than the bulls should have been misled by the balmy climate during the late Reagan years. Right now, stocks are extremely vulnerable to the same scenario. The reason: The market is even more overpriced than when thunder struck on that distant Black Monday.
> 
> That doesn't mean that a giant correction is inevitable; far from it. But the quasi-bubble that followed the big selloff in late 2008 and early 2009 makes the probability of sudden downward swing far more likely. And today's high prices make it practically certain that investors can, at best, expect extremely low returns in the years ahead.


http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/17/magazines/fortune/2010.crash.1987.again.fortune/index.htm


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

The euro implosion could be a factor

I think the true test will be when the average joe and jane, who've never really delved into the troubles, and looked at their own futures, realize they've been sold a bill of goods. Their social security is gone, their 401k's are all paper, their annuities, savings, and pensions are non-existent. When people realize what they have at this moment could be all they'll ever have, and they're going to have to work (and possibly start really working, by the sweat of their brow, instead of slapping keys on a keyboard [whoops, that's what I'm doing...:angel:]) until they die... or they'll die.

When that atomic shock bomb hits them... the financial industry will get a 'run', and everything liquid will be pulled out... or attempted to.


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## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

I, too, don't see anything good coming soon. There is just too much out there that is going wrong.

As fuel prices go up, our monthly expenses will also go up. Therefore our net income will go down. On our good weeks we are trying to pay extra on what we owe as well as stock up and add to our preps. We have managed to pay off the car last month. The DH still has his Harley (I refuse to tell him he has to give it up even though it costs us over $400 a month!) and the rest of the things we owe (land, trailer, semi truck) are our largest expenses and are difficult to pay much extra on to make very much of a difference. But we are trying. The trailer and truck will be paid off before the end of next year. Just hope we can survive financially that long.

I have this desperate feeling that we're running out of time.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Wayne02 said:


> Who knows what to believe these days, the only thing certain is uncertainty.
> 
> This recent article suggests the possibility of a strong crash before year-end, yet other articles I read say things will get worse in 2011, and in my local area hiring has been picking up for those in demand career fields or those with specialized skills, or advanced degrees.
> 
> ...


Do you read the Ticker? If so, Karl has a really good one today entitled.. "The Roof is On Fire" it is worth the read...

www.tickerforum.org


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## Ohiogal (Mar 15, 2007)

> I have this desperate feeling that we're running out of time.


Me too.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

texican said:


> The euro implosion could be a factor
> 
> I think the true test will be when the average joe and jane, who've never really delved into the troubles, and looked at their own futures, realize they've been sold a bill of goods. Their social security is gone, their 401k's are all paper, their annuities, savings, and pensions are non-existent.


I agree, however, we live in an instant gratification, short attention span, media sound- bite society where the vast majority go on about their business in such a manner as to be ill-informed about the future and pre-occupied with what flavor of latte they will have in the morning.

These folks only panic when the msm tells them to panic or their monthly 401K statement shows up with a zero balance one day and they think it must have been some sort of data entry mistake. And even when the msm tells them to panic it will start to subside at the end of the 24hr news cycle and folks 'assume' things will come back to 'normal' eventually. 

Unless something very dramatic happens in a single event that is readily identifiable and absolutely crushing in nature, these folks will continue to exist like the frogs in the eventually to be boiling water.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

Aintlifegrand said:


> Do you read the Ticker? If so, Karl has a really good one today entitled.. "The Roof is On Fire" it is worth the read...
> www.tickerforum.org


I don't anymore on a regular basis, just overwhelmed with information overload these days. That is an excellent piece though, thank you.



> Folks, it's quite simple. Accumulation of debt is inflationary. It pulls forward demand from tomorrow. Look at house prices from 2003-2007 for your best and finest example - they quadrupled in some areas and doubled in many more. 20%+ "appreciation" annually was common.
> 
> But when you take on debt to buy something you're buying today what you would otherwise consume tomorrow. This is the Wimpy action: "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."
> 
> ...


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## Guest (May 20, 2010)

Ernie said:


> A boost in sales at Walmart does not mean a recovery.





Randy Rooster said:


> WallMart sales were down last quarter. The higher priced stores sales were up. That is indicative of a growing confidence by the consumer.





limey said:


> Er No! It means that WalMart shoppers had less money to spend and the wealthy were shopping for $3,000.00 handbags and other "neccessities".





Betty Jean said:


> Or it means that the higher priced stores are slashing prices to compete. Of course I'd rather spend my $15 on a Christmas gift sweater at Macys than Wally world!


Walmart sales are DOWN. I wish I remember where the link is, but a few weeks ago I read an article in a retail trade pub in which Walmart SPECIFIED that they are losing customers to CVS and also to either Family Dollar or Dollar General, I forget which they said.

They are also losing loads of customers to Target.

I read and watch msm news as well as read the trade pubs, so I've been watching the trends.

The wealthier customers who had cut back spending drastically last year are picking up their luxury spending again.

The high-end stores had bad sales last year, and had drastically cut a lot of prices, but with sales picking up again now because their rich customers are coming back, they will probably return to normal; at least for a while.

Middle-class customers are the backbone of the economy, and they haven't picked up spending as much as the upper class has done.

Middle class people became frightened by the faltering economy, and there is an explosion of bargain hunting amongst the middle class. Which is WHY Walmart is losing customers. People go searching on the web trying to find ways to stretch their money, and stumble across power-shopping/couponing blogs, forums and other sites (One of the popular coupon forums gained 2 MILLION new members in the last year. All the popular forums are gaining from hundreds to thousands of new members DAILY). 

As a result of searching on the net, people are finding out that Walmart is a rip off. Tons better deals are to be had elsewhere. 

(I'm watching Walmart with great interest to see if they will succumb to the pressure and start some sort of rewards program of their own).


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Funny that you say that, LadyCat.

When the economy faltered originally, everyone and their brother was claiming that Walmart stock "would be the safe haven investment that people are looking for".

Whatever. Walmart has lost their way over the years, and unless someone steps up and starts running the place like Sam originally did, Walmart will eventually be like Woolworth.

Are you stunned by Walmart's unbelievable price increases?


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Anybody see this?

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/default.aspx?feat=1758823&GT1=33002

I don't understand much about the stock market but I am going to assume this is bad. Very bad.


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## Ohiogal (Mar 15, 2007)

We are heading into a double-dip decline. Which means the second leg of the Great Depression of the Millenium is just starting. Way back in the last Depression, a little country called Austria was the match to light the tinder. The Euro is the flame this time.


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## Guest (May 20, 2010)

clovis said:


> Funny that you say that, LadyCat.
> 
> When the economy faltered originally, everyone and their brother was claiming that Walmart stock "would be the safe haven investment that people are looking for".
> 
> ...


I noticed some steep price increases there recently, but actually, I've been getting very little at Walmart. They're mostly good for using high value coupons to get free stuff. I used $2 coupons for Kraft mayo this week and last week to get 18 quarts of mayo that was priced at only $1.97 (free plus overage). I used stacks of $3/5 canned Mighty Dog because it's only 57Â¢ each there. So I got a few cases for free plus overage. And so on and so on etc etc.

I'm learning to work the Target program- very much like CVS, but actually simpler. Stack store coupons plus manufacture coupons plus roll gift cards, and get tons of free stuff. I have cut back considerably on my CVSing, because Target has MUCH cooler stuff.  CVS is more time consuming, and I can't work _both_ of them to the max; too much time and mental strain involved.

My recent Target trips, in order:

$98.90 before TQs/MQs/GCs
Out-of-pocket 90Â¢

$158.57 before TQs/MQs/GCs
Out-of-pocket $0.00

$82.27 before TQs/MQs/GCs
Out-of-pocket $2.23

By hanging around the Target boards at the coupon forums, and the Target blogs, I'm finding that loads of people are abandoning Walmart as they discover the coupon forums and learn to work Target.

I am VERY interested in seeing what Walmart is going to come up with to retain customers.


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## PrincessFerf (Apr 25, 2008)

Do you mind sharing the link to the coupon forums you're referring to ladycat?


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## Guest (May 21, 2010)

PrincessFerf said:


> Do you mind sharing the link to the coupon forums you're referring to ladycat?


There are dozens of them, but after spending a considerable amount of time checking out bunches of them, I settled on the following routine to maximize savings with the least amount of time involved.

====================================

*1.* I follow this lady on Twitter:

http://twitter.com/totallytarget

She posts hidden deals and coupons as she finds them, and does a lot of coupon matchups. If you don't do Twitter, her blog is here:

http://www.totallytarget.com/

*2.* I read the new posts in this thread every day:

http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1993878

It will confuse the heck out of you at first, but read read read until you start getting the hang of it. The regulars there are fabulous, and no deal escapes them. 

It's a very busy thread, and everytime it reaches a few hundred pages, they close it and start a new one to continue. 

*3.* On Sunday, I go here:

http://www.southernsavers.com/category/target/

and print out my shopping list for the sale for that week. You choose only the items you want, and it prints out with coupon matchups. It doesn't show many of the Target coupons that you will already have from having followed the Slick Deals thread, but it has the manufacturer coupons, and everything is categorized, so it only takes a short while to gather up your coupons and be ready to go shopping.

====================================

One thing to keep in mind, if you strictly go by the Target sale paper, you will miss out on 90% of the deals, including all the freebies. That's why coupon forums are so valuable- they teach you all the tricks and keep you updated on all the unadvertized and hidden deals. This goes for any store, not just Target.

Target is great! A fraction of the time that you need for doing CVS deals, and WAY cool stuff: household supplies, cleaning supplies, groceries, toys*, electronics, clothes, outdoor supplies, and even DVD movies! And more!

I'm still doing some CVS, but I've learned that often you can get better deals at Target than you can at CVS for the exact same items.

(*I'm going to be soooo popular with my great nieces and nephews this coming Christmas) :cute:


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## PrincessFerf (Apr 25, 2008)

Thank you very much!


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## Ohiogal (Mar 15, 2007)

This just across the wire. Things are going to be changing by the hour from here on out. There is a general panic going on with stocks and the bond market will probably overinflate and collapse. Please be advised!

http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/British-Expert-Great-Depression/2010/05/21/id/359746


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> The Baby Boomers will turn the system upside down as they retire.
> 
> Not only will they stop contributing to the system but they will be drawing out of the system.
> 
> ...


Don't forget that we (baby boomers) have paid into SS for 40+ years!


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## Guest (May 21, 2010)

Ohiogal said:


> This just across the wire. Things are going to be changing by the hour from here on out. There is a general panic going on with stocks and the bond market will probably overinflate and collapse. Please be advised!
> 
> http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/British-Expert-Great-Depression/2010/05/21/id/359746


I saw all the breaking news alerts about the White House passing something that's going to regulate Wall Street, but I don't understand what it all means.

But judging by what I've seen so far of this administration, I'm guessing it won't be good in the long run.


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## Guest (May 21, 2010)

Oh wow, look at this article at Market Watch:

The Senate's approval Thursday of its own version of the financial reform bill already approved by the house is the biggest defeat to the industry since the fallout of the stock market crash in 1929. If it becomes law, and it most certainly should, it will turn 20 years of banking philosophy -- the drive to integrate securities with consumer banking --on its head.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dont-blame-washington-for-wall-st-reform-2010-05-21


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## Ohiogal (Mar 15, 2007)

One of the reasons we are here is because of the deregulation of banks back in the 70's and 80's allowing them to be brokers in real estate, and use other 'instruments' other than plain fixed interest loans to finance their profits. If they are stopping that then good, that needs to be done as that is what is driving the speculators to put cash into doubtful investments and thereby drive the process because the banks make a premium on each sale/trade of those same investments. Think about the ATM machine - when it first came out, the charged you and then they figured out it would eliminate a job (human) so they pushed it based on cost savings, and now they are charging you once again because you have grown used to the risk of having your money dispensed by a machine. The investor takes all the risk, and they take the profit.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

URGH! It is just all so confusing! I don't understand what any of this stock market and political junk means. 

Can anyone dumb it down for me?


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## SLD Farm (Dec 19, 2007)

The economy is terrible. We own a carry out and business is way off. I can't afford to quit my HR job and go to work out there full time so I have employees who work there M-F and I work at least 8-12 hours there on the weekends. I have to work 7 days a week, 60 hrs at least, inorder to make the budgets work for both home and the carryout and even then there are weeks that it is touch and go. This weather isn't helping business at all. Most if not all small businesses are hurting.
On the other side of the coin though, at my place of employment we have multiple job openings and can't get them filled. I work for a Nursing Home-Skilled care facility and we are always begging for Nursing Assistants. We use to offer the class, free, with the agreement that you came to work for us, and it was tough to get people to fill the class and graduate 4 wks later! Its even harder to get Aides to come to work! Now, is the pay great? $8-9 an hour but for someone with no to little education and we have guaranteed raises for them each year...I think it is pretty good. I hear people complaining about the tough times they have, but when I offer OT, it gets turned down! Now I work 60 hrs a week, I don't expect others to do so, but for time and a half, I would think they would be jumping at it. Some people want to work and others don't. I feel for those that want to work and better themselves, I'll do what I can to help. Its the other group with their hands out that infuriates me.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

So the stock market goes up, and the stock market goes down.

Meanwhile we have this:



> Employment Increased in 38 U.S. States in April
> May 21 (Bloomberg) -- Payrolls increased in 38 states in April, led by Ohio, Pennsylvania and New York, indicating the recovery in the labor market is becoming more broad-based.
> 
> Employers in Ohio boosted staff by 37,300 workers last month, the biggest jump in 22 years, the Labor Department said today in Washington. Those in Pennsylvania added 34,000 workers, and employment in New York climbed by 32,700.
> ...


http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...eased-in-38-u-s-states-in-april-update2-.html

Is the stock market so disconnected at this point that it's fluctuations no longer matter to employers in their hiring decisions? Is the economy moving on in spite of the stock market?


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

I hope that I'm not drifting this thread too far:

I checked our sales at the indoor flea market that we sell in. We sold a whopping $78 in two days.

$60 of that was for a swing set kit that I sold the daylights out of two years ago for over $100, and sold them almost as fast as I could get them out.

The flea market still has plenty of shoppers. In fact, the parking lot is full almost every day.

The problem is that people are not spending money, and when they are, they are making thoughtful purchases.

Corporate America may say that sales are up, but I'm not seeing them locally or on ebay.


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## Guest (May 22, 2010)

clovis said:


> I hope that I'm not drifting this thread too far:


Not really OT, since it's an illustration of how the economy is suffering. Which DOES belong in S&EP because it's further confirmation that we all need to stay prepped.

I don't think things are going to get better in the forseeable future.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Luxury goods will still be available but may require a significantly higher energy contribution to reach. We will probably not see drastically reduced standards of living within the next five years, but in our old age we will compare things with "the way they used to be" and wonder how this happened.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Wayne02 said:


> So the stock market goes up, and the stock market goes down.
> 
> Meanwhile we have this:
> 
> ...


Is this seasonally adjusted? Highway and construction hiring based on stimulus money has started.


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## J2E1 (Oct 15, 2009)

clovis said:


> The problem is that people are not spending money, and when they are, they are making thoughtful purchases.
> 
> Corporate America may say that sales are up, but I'm not seeing them locally or on ebay.


I'm sorry sales for your product are down, but can you really honestly say that the problem is that people AREN'T spending money thoughtlessly? Isn't that part of how we got in this whole mess to begin with? It's not a problem if people don't spend money on a product they have thoughtfully considered purchasing and decided it's not in their best interest to trade their cash for a product. It's the role of the producer to consider the demands of the consumer and produce a product that will sell, not the other way around.


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## Guest (May 30, 2010)

ladycat said:


> Walmart sales are DOWN. I wish I remember where the link is, but a few weeks ago I read an article in a retail trade pub in which Walmart SPECIFIED that they are losing customers to CVS and also to either Family Dollar or Dollar General, I forget which they said.
> 
> They are also losing loads of customers to Target.
> 
> ...


It got into the msm, less specific details, but interesting.


_Wal-Mart was one of the few beneficiaries when the Great Recession began, as shoppers traded down to save money. Now it's having trouble keeping customers in a slowly recovering economy. *Cash-strapped shoppers are looking elsewhere for better deals such as dollar stores and local grocery chains.* And some wealthier customers, feeling more flush, are starting to head back to the mall._

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g12YsNleHMdPwq84mPKdXlbBaokgD9G0IHV81


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

NamasteMama said:


> What about all those people who were cut off today from Unemployment? I heard it was quite a few hundred thousand to a millions who had exhausted their benifits.


Exhausted their benefits. They don't count any more. The job numbers will get better because they will just go away.:grit:


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

I call August. I am doing every single money job I can called "making hay while the sun shines."

The stinkulus effect is running out and summer seasonal employment is not even up. Without census workers (temporary) we are still printing "no change" to the unemployed even though summer is starting. Look at the internals on the earnings reports. Cisco is at 1/2 of the volume of product they were 2 years ago. Just because they are profitable does not mean all is well. And we have 100,000s dropping off the radar every month as their benefits expire.

Lending is way down and credit card debt is contracting. No debt no excess spending. We must adjust to the new normal. 

We must have a deflationary depression to clear all the debt. No other way.


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

No work where I am still, I've been looking for a job here since December 2008, there is just too many people out of work and not enough job openings to go around. I've never had a problem getting (or keeping) a job but being out of work this long sure takes a toll on your spirit and your self-esteem. Not to mention the example I am trying to set for my children, that hard work is the way to take care of your family. I wish I knew that things would improve soon but I'm afraid the economy will never again be as prosperous as it once was.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

clovis said:


> I hope that I'm not drifting this thread too far:
> 
> I checked our sales at the indoor flea market that we sell in. We sold a whopping $78 in two days.
> 
> ...


If you are an experienced FMT you should already know that FMs are antithesis to corporate America and the WSJ is a reverse barometer for FMTs even if your inventory is original package closeout most FM customers prefer to second hand household junk.

This has been the FM norm since at least 1986 or 1987 when the nature of FM inventories began changing.


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## PrincessFerf (Apr 25, 2008)

I think things will be worse starting January 1st (if not before then). When the Bush tax cuts expire 1/1/11 (and there are many), I think that will help further push spending down.

I am hoping that the recession (or depression) is simply the painful readjustment to a "new normal".

To be honest, its refreshing to hear that people in general are being more thoughtful about their purchases and buying NEEDS instead of WANTS all of the time. Living within your means doesn't mean that the world will end, it just means that there will be a higher demand for more practical goods and services.


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