# Preparing for Post-Election Violence



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

We don't have much time left, so I want to give out a little advice on prepping for post-election violence. This election year is somewhat different than previous ones. We're looking at large segments of the population who haven't traditionally been politically active, and we're looking at a specifically charged environment. I think possibly now more than ever, we are at risk of post-election riots.

Here's what I've been doing to prepare. Keep in mind that I live in a rural area and do not have a daily need to travel into town, so I can isolate myself pretty easily. Your needs may differ and thus your plan will alter accordingly.

1. Buying ammunition. If some of our major cities have erupted into violence, it is possible the government could put out a ban on purchasing firearms and or ammunition. It's possible you might find that all the stores are closed, or have sold out already or been looted. For whatever reason, ammunition may be unavailable to you. Purchase plenty of it now for whatever weapons you have on hand, and if you don't have a weapon then you've just about now got time to get one. 

2. Storing in non-perishable food supplies. A fall election is a good time for me because it hits right after harvest when my stockpiles are still high. However I did bring in a few cases of some of our store-bought favorites as a precaution. Rioting in Chicago could disrupt the distribution sites of various grocery stores near me and I don't want to get caught without my canned pineapple chunks. (That would make life hard.) 

3. One of the methods that law enforcement uses to quell riots is to cut power and water to the affected area to force people out where they can be dealt with one by one. You've seen how the crazy electrical grid works when there's a normal outage. Half the houses in your neighborhood will be without power, but the one right across the street still has their porch light on. I don't know how the systems are wired, but it's possible that to cut power to a large urban area they might need to take down surrounding rural areas as well. Make sure you have candles, batteries, etc. for your lighting needs. A store of firewood or a topped off propane tank would be useful as well. November gets pretty cold in my area.

4. The day prior to the election, make absolutely sure that you have a full tank of gas and at least one spare 5' gallon can full as well. If you decide you need to leave the area in a hurry, stopping at a gas station isn't likely to be an option. I'd keep that tank full for about a week following the election, just in case and to see how everything plays out.

5. If you determine that escaping your current area would be a necessity, or if you live in a place you determine might be more riot prone, then have your bugout bag packed and ready as well as any other additional items you want to take with you. Prepare maps ahead of time for where you're going to go, even if it's just getting on I-90 and heading west until you stop seeing suburbs. Camping can be nice this time of year if you pack warm clothes.

Finally, follow the news media of your choice so you know what's happening and when. Don't be caught off guard. I can see multiple scenarios potentially playing out here, including one where nothing happens at all.


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## Grace&Violets (Apr 4, 2007)

My DH and I were talking about this yesterday. One thing we are doing, so we're not caught at a voting place is to vote early. That way, if things are starting to go south, we won't be out near what's going on. I will be in school during the day, about 30 miles from my house, and DH already has plans on txt msging me all day with updates. 

I'm not really too worried about where I live, just a few young families and retired couples. I don't expect them to riot, since I hardly see them even outside. Even so, it's good to take precautions and make sure we have a way to stay warm and extra food. My pantry should already be sufficient, but it's never a bad idea to do more.


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## Grace&Violets (Apr 4, 2007)

marvella said:


> so who exactly do you think is going to be rioting?


I think with Obama's lead, if he doesn't win, people are going to be mad. I think the news was calling it the Bradley effect or something. That's probably not the correct term, but it was a couple of days ago on MSN. Apparently a lot of white voters had said they were going to vote for a black man in CA for some office, but really had plans on voting for the white man, so on election day, the white man won and everyone thought the voting was rigged.

ETA: link http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/obama.bradley.effect/


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Mental note: must buy

Ammo
pineapple
fill tank
flashlights
beer (for the guys)
TP
antacids


Yup, should cover Ernies basics and mine too. 


People all around the urban sprawl near me have been lining up for hours each day for like a week for EARLY voting.......................

With the six old hens who dominate volunteering at the polls in my village of 370 I'll take my chances on election day. Seems a great time to stock up on gossip, just in case.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Exactly advice Ernie... as usual. Being prepared for many differing scenarios here as the city I work in ( thank goodness not where I live) is on the verge of rioting on most days.. it would take very little to set it off. Personally I have witnessed several unnerving situations recently that make me know that being prepared is a good idea. Thanks


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I'm against early voting, in general. Too many times some skeleton gets dragged out into the light just before the election in the final days and it sways the tide. It happens year after year. Though it wouldn't really change my mind as I'm voting for a non-winning candidate anyway (Bob Barr), I think the big push to get "early voters" by one of the campaigns is a hope to avoid something in the tide that they know is about to get washed ashore. I also think that big push to vote early translates to "don't think too deeply about it ... vote for me now before you come to your senses".

As for who I think will be doing the rioting, that's a baited question, Marvella and you're trying to get me to reveal some deep-seated racial prejudice that you believe must absolutely be there because otherwise why would I NOT like Obama. This isn't GC and I'm not going to allow myself to be baited in clumsy fashion. Just be prepared. There's so much riding on this particular election, more so than I can recall in any election in my entire life, and people are hair-triggered to riot at any provocation. They riot when their favorite teams don't win and they riot when their favorite teams do win. I don't think it's too far fetched to say people might riot over this particular election. And if nothing happens? No big deal. Always nice to have a full tank of gas, canned pineapple and ammunition on hand.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm not doing a thing differently for the election.

.....Alan.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

I think I will cut a bit more firewood.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Deleted as it is not applicable now.

Angie


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I decided to rent a good movie or two for that evening - to keep me away from the news!


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## lorian (Sep 4, 2005)

Yeah, stocking up on gas is a GOOD idea. Thanks for reminding me to fill up the extra cans.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

marvella said:


> took out deleted quote - Angie
> QUOTE]
> 
> *EDIT* To heck with it. I'm still not going to be baited.


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

Don't forget some tobacco for that pipe...
Smoking a pipe eases the stress...


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Angie, do you have an alarm that goes off somewhere every time an Ernie-post hits the forum? 

I don't really make small-talk and if I bother to post at all it's likely to be controversial. I probably owe you a bushel of apples for all the work I cause you.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Ernie said:


> Angie, do you have an alarm that goes off somewhere every time an Ernie-post hits the forum?
> 
> I don't really make small-talk and if I bother to post at all it's likely to be controversial. I probably owe you a bushel of apples for all the work I cause you.


I'm a Mom - eyes in the back of my head...:shrug:

Angie


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Marshloft said:


> Don't forget some tobacco for that pipe...
> Smoking a pipe eases the stress...


You ain't kidding. I keep quite a bit of tobacco on hand, but I will be sad on the day the supply ends and I can't go get more. I used to smoke cigarettes but I found they were not only making me sick, but my stamina was being reduced (not a good thing for a farmer who favors manpower over tractors). So about 5 or 6 years ago I switched to the pipe, which I smoke much less frequently and with far more enjoyment. I advise everyone who smokes cigarettes to switch to a pipe. It's more enjoyable and (arguably) healthier as well.

So that'll be one for me to check up on before November 4th ... do I have enough tobacco on-hand to get me through a potential crisis.


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## wantabunch (Jan 7, 2008)

I have also been concerned about the possibility of nationwide rioting if a particular candidate is not elected. I don't really think my area would be affected, but will be topping off all my normal preps this week just in case. Cars full of gas, pantry full of food, and I'll take some $$ out of the bank just in case things get crazy next week. If they don't, great. But I will not be caught unprepared.


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## Razorback21 (May 13, 2003)

I do believe the chances of any widespread rioting is remote, maybe pockets here and there. However, that being said, if I have learned anything from you all these years on here, is to prepare for the unexpected. So we will prep accordingly, perhaps like one would prep for a hurricane, three to 14 days worth or thereabouts.

Sure wish I was better at predicting the future, so I wouldn't have to go to all this work!!! lol.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Good thread, would apply under any circumstances. There was some ting on the news that said many were prepping just in case for riots.


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

Ernie,
Your concerns may be valid, and I don't think it's because of race, though that could be one of many, many factors. People feel very passionately about the outcome of the elections, and there's no way to know how the losers - R Or D - will react. It never hurts to be prepared...and if it's peaceful, you'll still have a good supply of pineapple and other stuff on hand. I doubt there will be riots in rural areas - a few fistfights and such, perhaps.


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## Razorback21 (May 13, 2003)

Madame said:


> I doubt there will be riots in rural areas - a few fistfights and such, perhaps.


Heck, we have that every Saturday night out here even when there isn't an election going on!!!! lol.


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

A.T. Hagan said:


> I'm not doing a thing differently for the election.
> 
> .....Alan.



me either, except for taking down Ron Pauls sign at 9PM. after reading some posts above, it looks more like some people are getting ready for skeet match.
A prepper should have been prepared months or yrs ago


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

In my own particular location I don't expect too much fuss, mainly because this is where houses start to be a little more spread out. While a little less than a mile away is an "urban" area with houses close together and businesses around, out here there just aren't as many houses or as many temptations like electronics stores. We are somewhere between suburban and rural, most of the houses are on between half an acre and 5 acres, with a few larger properties here and there. The houses are well kept, but this isn't a subdivision and there aren't McMansions.

I will be making sure that we have no reason to leave the house the day after the election, any last minute things will either be gathered in before that day or will have to wait. I'm still not sure that the city I live in would have any trouble, I don't have a great feel for the population yet like I have in other places I've lived. I don't really expect any, but I could be wrong. I do think there is a good possibility of trouble within Pittsburgh, but any of the routes from there to here involve the turnpike or traveling through some fairly rural areas. I don't see any spillover of rioters from there, but possibly the presence there would ignite it here.

So basically my strategy is to avoid well populated areas, and pray that nothing makes its way into this area.

Kayleigh


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

stranger said:


> me either, except for taking down Ron Pauls sign at 9PM. after reading some posts above, it looks more like some people are getting ready for skeet match.
> A prepper should have been prepared months or yrs ago


That's an elitist attitude. You know there are plenty of folks just now coming into this way of life or just lurking the forum who haven't thought of these things.

Though I agree that we should be prepared for any such disruptions all the time, and that I should have posted this probably 2 months ago. However many don't feel there's a problem NOW, and 2 months ago I imagine fewer still would have gotten the point.


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

Ernie said:


> *That's an elitist attitude. You know there are plenty of folks just now coming into this way of life or just lurking the forum who haven't thought of these things.*
> 
> Though I agree that we should be prepared for any such disruptions all the time, and that I should have posted this probably 2 months ago. However many don't feel there's a problem NOW, and 2 months ago I imagine fewer still would have gotten the point.



I disagree about being an elitist, I read all of the post of every thread that grab my eye as yours did. I just think there are many on this fourm and other survivor forums that are not prepping anything and are here for laughs although they try to play along thinking all the time that a prepper is nuts. 

prepping here has been covered sixty ways from sunday, a person that really wants to prep could do a search and come up with a weeks reading on which prepping would suit their situation best.JMO


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

Three of us ladies from my weight loss group have an overnight trip planned for the 5th and 6th. Everyone keep us in your prayers. We will have to go through Dallas to get to where we're going unless we go WAY out of the way. I will have my CCL with me and some protection.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

stranger said:


> I disagree about being an elitist, I read all of the post of every thread that grab my eye as yours did. I just think there are many on this fourm and other survivor forums that are not prepping anything and are here for laughs although they try to play along thinking all the time that a prepper is nuts.
> 
> prepping here has been covered sixty ways from sunday, a person that really wants to prep could do a search and come up with a weeks reading on which prepping would suit their situation best.JMO


I would rather have twenty people laugh at me and be able to help one person than not have anyone laugh at me and let that person fall by the wayside.

All this stuff is overwhelming when you first start out, and a LOT of people are just starting out now. The economy has made a lot of people take a good hard look at the world and they don't like what they see. Since this is a potential scenario that people may have to face in the near future, I see nothing wrong with discussing it.

Do you really think we should all stop talking about prepping because everyone should already know the stuff and because not everyone on prepping boards is completely gung ho?

Kayleigh


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## Razorback21 (May 13, 2003)

******* said:


> I would rather have twenty people laugh at me and be able to help one person than not have anyone laugh at me and let that person fall by the wayside.
> 
> All this stuff is overwhelming when you first start out, and a LOT of people are just starting out now. The economy has made a lot of people take a good hard look at the world and they don't like what they see. Since this is a potential scenario that people may have to face in the near future, I see nothing wrong with discussing it.
> 
> ...


We have been prepping for a year and still feel like rookies, so I say, Please No! Don't stop talking about it. That is how each of us learn. This site, more so than others, looks at a lot of different scenarios, while other sites, mainly the survival types, are focused on Armageddon from the foreign hordes, etc.

At this moment and time in our nation's history, this forum is more important than ever. All of you have provided information to my wife and I that will, I'm afraid, turn out to be invaluable in the future.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

My prepping consist of going to work the next day. I don't think violence will be an issue unless by some miracle McCain wins. And then I don't think it'll be mass rioting everywhere. But only time will tell.........


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## Bloomer (Apr 2, 2008)

Well, being black and living out in the country, we are prepping for the possibility that a certain candidate WILL win the election,
and there might be some retaliatory violence by upset people down here in Texas (even though we are voting third party, most people assume we are for a certain candidate because of our race). We are beefing up on defensive measures for our home and when we travel.


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## wottahuzzee (Jul 7, 2006)

Because we live on an island, we are relatively isolated and we do not think there will be any rioting. However, we did use the possibility as an excuse to get a new gun, order 1K rounds for it, and make a Costco run. Otherwise, everything SOP.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Bloomer said:


> Well, being black and living out in the country, we are prepping for the possibility that a certain candidate WILL win the election,
> and there might be some retaliatory violence by upset people down here in Texas (even though we are voting third party, most people assume we are for a certain candidate because of our race). We are beefing up on defensive measures for our home and when we travel.


Welcome to the forum Bloomer, and HT in general.
It's good to hear from all sorts of people. 

And even if a certain/either candidate wins, there could be celebrations that become riot=like that would cause preps to be useful. New preps, or the ones you already have.

Angie


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## StatHaldol (Sep 1, 2006)

Ernie said:


> You ain't kidding. I keep quite a bit of* tobacco* on hand, but I will be sad on the day the supply ends and I can't go get more. I used to smoke cigarettes but I found they were not only making me sick, but my stamina was being reduced (not a good thing for a farmer who favors manpower over tractors). So about 5 or 6 years ago I switched to the pipe, which I smoke much less frequently and with far more enjoyment. I advise everyone who smokes cigarettes to switch to a pipe. It's more enjoyable and (arguably) healthier as well.
> So that'll be one for me to check up on before November 4th ... do I have enough tobacco on-hand to get me through a potential crisis.


Not trying to hijack the thread...but, I'm a pipe smoker too. Have you ever smoked home grown tobacco? I haven't...I've seen tobacco growing and I've seen it being cured...
I've always thought about reading up on it and growing some just to experiment. From what I've read, curing is an art and a labor intensive project...


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## StatHaldol (Sep 1, 2006)

Madame said:


> Ernie,
> Your concerns may be valid, and I don't think it's because of race, though that could be one of many, many factors. People feel very passionately about the outcome of the elections, and there's no way to know how the losers - R Or D - will react. It never hurts to be prepared...and if it's peaceful, you'll still have a good supply of pineapple and other stuff on hand. * I doubt there will be riots in rural areas - a few fistfights and such, perhaps.*


 That's what governor Blanco here in Louisiana said the day before Katrina...


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Those who assume potential riots would be about electronic stores are a bit optimistic IMHO. People who loot are opportunists who make the "best" of an already volitale situation. I'm sensing that no matter who wins the real anger will stem from deep seeded frustrations with the current state of the union, economy, war....whatever. Those passions being stirred have very little to do with a cart of free goods and greed. A person with a cart of loot goes home to enjoy their goods. A person revolting because something snapped inside themselves and their community is far more dangerous. 

Things may go nowhere which I hope they do. All I know is that the level of tension currently is far greater than the infamous election of 2000. 

Long story short: The election is merely a focal point in already disasterous times, people may place too much of an emphasis on it because of personal fears. When it comes and goes and life is still in a state of disorder *everyone *will be mad. Forget the election, what about the disillusionment that is sure to follow? Neither candidate is a miracle worker and I think that's what the people want.


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## FUNKY PIONEER (Sep 20, 2005)

Why do people talk like there only two candidates? Neither candidate, jeeze. There are several candidates running. No matter, I think the country is full of lots of unhappy people and the election will be interesting to say the least. You all are scaring the poop out of me though, DH works the day after elections.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Hope things stay calm, but it is good to be alert to any and all danger all the time. Not much likely hood of trouble here unless the Embdens and the Buffs get into a turf battle again. LOL


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## chris30523 (Jun 11, 2005)

The only thing I am prepping for is to stay out of More heavily populated areas. I lived through "race riots " in the 70's and do not want to re-live any memories.
We have enough to stay home for quite a while if need be. Not to mention DH picked up extra ammo for hunting season.


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## Wildwood (Jul 2, 2007)

I'm more worried that our new president will be assasinated and that would be the last thing this country needs. If ever there was a time in history that we need to be united as a country, it's now and we seem on the verge of being divided along party, racial and economic lines. Take your pick, there is a line for just about everyone. My state is too poor to seem too bothered by much of it and we don't have many big cities. I'll be surprised if rioting is an issue here and I'm like Alan, no additional preps here. Just the usual topping off. The economy is what has my attention now and praying that nobody does anything stupid on either side.

BTW welcome aboard Bloomer. I'm an independent girl myself or as I like to say, nondenominational.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

hintonlady said:


> Those who assume potential riots would be about electronic stores are a bit optimistic IMHO. People who loot are opportunists who make the "best" of an already volitale situation. I'm sensing that no matter who wins the real anger will stem from deep seeded frustrations with the current state of the union, economy, war....whatever. Those passions being stirred have very little to do with a cart of free goods and greed. A person with a cart of loot goes home to enjoy their goods. A person revolting because something snapped inside themselves and their community is far more dangerous.


Well, since I was the one who mentioned electronics stores, I will assume this is to me. 

I think that you and I are assuming two different groups of people will riot. I think that the people who might riot WILL mostly be opportunists who are going to use the election as an excuse. You seem to think that the rioters will be people who are more "justified" in rioting.

But anyways, there isn't a reason for people who don't live here to come through here most of the time. I just don't think it's an area that would spring to anyone's mind if they were out to take theirs back from "the man".

Kayleigh


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## highplains (Oct 5, 2006)

I think it's truly a sad state of affairs that we've come down to expecting violence on an election day, this is what our forefathers were trying to avoid, rather than doing the French Revolution from time to time.
Everyone gets a turn, and you can always vote out whoever it is in 2, 3 or 4 years depending on the candidates position in politics.
This is just [email protected] disappointing that a suggestion such as violence is expected to probably happen. Just goes to show the veneer of civilization is wearing thin in spots.


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## Murron (Oct 17, 2007)

A.T. Hagan said:


> I'm not doing a thing differently for the election.
> 
> .....Alan.



Same here. 



.... Thank you, Alan.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Well as a permanent absentee voter, I don't have to go to the election polling place next week.....

In watching the National News just a few minutes ago, the talk of the major downturn in the economy was balanced with news of the surge of 10- 15% increase in the sales of firearms and ammunition!!!! Hummmmm? I wonder why???? This Marine Corps Veteran has been ready to outfit a small South American guerilla force for years.....

In having been through the 1967 Riots in Detroit as a kid, it wasn't only electronics items being looted - furniture, food, clothing, and anything else that wasn't guarded or burned to the ground was fair game. At that time, there was not an extra firearm or box of ammunition to be found anywhere at any price!!!!! I remember my dad loading the weapons, and keeping his eyes open in case the rioting spread into our neighborhood.

Riots can occur anywhere for a multitude of reasons. Sports teams winning/ losing, court decisions, disaster emergencies, and folks just unhappy with life in general, are some of the reasons - besides the upcoming election. A crowd's mood can go from very happy to extremely ugly in a blink of an eye..

I have some extra packages of bulk tobacco in my preps, so I am covered there. Also have enough packs of cigarette papers too....

Maybe after my medical appointment next Tuesday, when I will armed with my CCW weapon and extra magazines. I will immediatedly head for home, lock the gate, and pay attention to the local public service frequencies besides the main stream news outlets..


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

It's too bad that we can't have an election without expecting violence or actually having it. I'd expect such nonsense in a 3rd world country. 

I won't be doing anything different on election day, in fact I'll be taking my kids to the polling place with me. I've always voted with them. While showing them how the machines work I tell them what a privilege and responsibility it is to participate in our democratic process.

But if there is any uproar, over the election or any other issue, we're prepared to stay home a few days and let it settle down. And also to defend our property and family if it comes to that.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

FUNKY PIONEER said:


> Why do people talk like there only two candidates?


It has always been and will remain until further notice just like the Pepsi challenge. Doesn't matter if you like to drink iced tea our political system is a coke pepsi rivalry.

Expecting that to change and people to awaken is like expecting the general populace to understand prepping. Sure would be nice but not especially realistic.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

This is a good example of Angie's quick trigger finger (delete) being a good thing.
Anyone asking "who would" just wasn't doing enough thinking.
Pray that nothing does happen.

Back in 67 I was taking the wife and kids back home (detroit) from vacation and was startled many times when state cop cars went by us at 100+ mph.
We had not heard the news.
And we were heading right for it.
I didn't go to work (midtown detroit) for many days.
It was more than ugly.

Yes to a third party vote............


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I'll be upping my ammo in the next week, but figure I have two more months for the long term stuff... the stuff that'll be banned.

I keep all the other stuff on hand, as a rule...


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Bloomer said:


> Well, being black and living out in the country, we are prepping for the possibility that a certain candidate WILL win the election,
> and there might be some retaliatory violence by upset people down here in Texas (even though we are voting third party, most people assume we are for a certain candidate because of our race). We are beefing up on defensive measures for our home and when we travel.


I think it's going to be bad regardless of who wins. I'm also voting third party, or should say, voted 3rd party. DH and I were talking about this today and if race wars start we're in a weird situation. DH and I are both white, but our son is bi-racial. Since we live in Georgia, not sure how well that's going to go over with either whites or blacks. It's going to be interesting. All I can say is thank God I put my faith in Him and not the government to keep us safe.


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## ailsaek (Feb 7, 2007)

Eh. If it's rioting because McCain lost, it's highly unlikely to be within 100 miles of me. If it rioting because Obama lost, I'll make myself a sign and go join the nearest vigil.


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## jasper (Aug 28, 2006)

Sonshine said:


> I think it's going to be bad regardless of who wins. I'm also voting third party, or should say, voted 3rd party. DH and I were talking about this today and if race wars start we're in a weird situation. DH and I are both white, but our son is bi-racial. Since we live in Georgia, not sure how well that's going to go over with either whites or blacks. It's going to be interesting. All I can say is thank God I put my faith in Him and not the government to keep us safe.


i am not sure of the age of your son, and it shouldn't matter, but i will try to remember to send him a good thought now and then. for your whole family actually. although you appear to have a very strong faith, there may be some awkward moments in the near future. my regards to all of you.


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

I'm filling in my last minute preps and getting ready for voting day....I live in a rural area so I'm hoping there won't be too much raising cain no matter who wins....But we live in between two large cities (our state capitol being one of them) so hopefully we can just lay low for awhile if need be. My husband is in the military so of course we are well armed just in case. At any rate, I hope you all stay safe as well


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

1) Make certain to have water bottles and jugs filled with water, several gallons to perhaps 20 gallons, as you have room and need.

2) Know where basic hand tools are and construction materials such as nails, screws, battery powered drill driver, plywood, 2x4s and such in case reinforcement or repairs are needed.

3) Stock up on inexpensive foods like ramen, instant dry soups, canned meats, pop top cans of food and such if you don't have shelf stable easy open foods just in case you need to pack for a move out.

4) Check out your supplies in your get and go bags, check your skee-dattle tubs of supplies and equipment, check the fluids and replenishment supply of fluids for your get and go vehicle, check your spare tire, lug wrench, jack and other emergency supplies in your vehicle. This is also good to do for your winter emergency kits and such anyway.

5) Refresh your memory and that of your family for your emergency meeting place in case you cannot get home and your fallback plan in such a case.

6) Remember batteries, medical supplies and your sense of humor. This is always a good idea for any potential emergency.

7) Always be situationally aware and if you gut gets squiggly, LISTEN TO IT and GET OUT OF THERE. Better to be safe than sorry.


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

I will be checking my dh's BOB this weekend. It is time anyway, you know time change weekend. Kind of like checking the smoke detector batteries. He changed jobs this summer & is now within a days drive of home at all times.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Fire extinguishers would be a good idea. Seems like in the past when tensions have gotten so bad that there was rioting and stuff, people sometimes had burning objects thrown through their windows.

Kathleen


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

It will be business as usuall after the election, same circus, just different clowns, besides no matter who is elected, G.W. is still in charge, does anyone think he is going to stand by and watch American cities being distroyed after almost eight yrs of peace and prosperity while he was at the wheel.?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

That's an aspect I hadn't considered, Bloomer, but certainly sounds possible. This has been the most charged election in my memory. The difference between the candidates spans the racial, economic, and ideological. We have lost common cause amongst ourselves. I can only see a long, harsh road for us.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

stranger said:


> It will be business as usuall after the election, same circus, just different clowns, besides no matter who is elected, G.W. is still in charge, does anyone think he is going to stand by and watch American cities being distroyed after almost eight yrs of peace and prosperity while he was at the wheel.?



I live outside a very small village IE: middle of nowhere. I sort of need the prep danger to amuse myself. Otherwise I would have to resort to watching grass grow. :dance:


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## booklover (Jan 22, 2007)

reluctantpatriot said:


> 1) Make certain to have water bottles and jugs filled with water, several gallons to perhaps 20 gallons, as you have room and need.


Even if there are riots, which I don't think there will be no matter what, why would you need water? What would happen that you would need to be stocked up on water. Not that I'm not already, because we live in tornado/blizzard/earthquake zone. Just can't figure out the reason that water supply would be shut down.


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

booklover said:


> Even if there are riots, which I don't think there will be no matter what, why would you need water? What would happen that you would need to be stocked up on water. Not that I'm not already, because we live in tornado/blizzard/earthquake zone. Just can't figure out the reason that water supply would be shut down.


How long will a water supply last without electricity to run pumps? It is one thing to power your own well pump, but how long will water towers supply water without power?

With riots there is the potential to lose power, be it by rioters or by those trying to control the riots.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

booklover said:


> Even if there are riots, which I don't think there will be no matter what, why would you need water? What would happen that you would need to be stocked up on water. Not that I'm not already, because we live in tornado/blizzard/earthquake zone. Just can't figure out the reason that water supply would be shut down.


I have also seen mentioned in a few places that cutting electricity and water are ways to control a population. Makes sense, most people won't know what to do with themselves for very long if they can't flush the toilet or wash their hands. Unfortunately, in a rioting area, it also may mean that structures are allowed to burn because there is no water to put them out.

Kayleigh


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## PrincessFerf (Apr 25, 2008)

We live in a rural area, but I work in "the city" (not a very big one, but still /shrug). I'll be working all of next week, unless things are too ugly and unsafe. 

Regardless of the results, I expect nothing to happen in the town where I live. Folks by us have lived in this area their whole lives and will continue to go about their business. Afterall, cows have to be milked, livestock has to be fed, etc. The sun will come up (Lord willing) and things will continue as usual.

If rioting occurs, I believe it would be in smaller pockets at worst. 

I am not prepping any differently than I do any other time. We always have over a month's worth of drinking water on hand and I just finished my canning for the fall so we're good. It'll take months before we'd be going hungry.

Besides, we just picked up a new Yahtzee game, so we're set!


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## Sustainable Joy (Nov 17, 2007)

Hiya Bloomer! Fellow black (wannabe)Homesteader/prepper here... I agree that the threat of McCain supporters lashing out at black folks is high... that's what I'm most afraid of. I won't be leaving the house for probably a week after the election. I don't want to be out someplace with my children and get set upon by a rampaging mob.

ETA: Bloomer, you're already living the dream, but DH and I are still in the city, just gardening in our tiny space and doing what we can while still in an apartment. We're wannabe homesteaders, at least till we can buy some land. I know that term can be loaded, I just wanted to clarify before there would be any misunderstanding.


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

Sustainable Joy said:


> Hiya Bloomer! Fellow black (wannabe)Homesteader/prepper here... I agree that the threat of McCain supporters lashing out at black folks is high... that's what I'm most afraid of. I won't be leaving the house for probably a week after the election. I don't want to be out someplace with my children and get set upon by a rampaging mob.


 I think you have 2008 America mixed up with 1964 Mississippi. Everyone gets a POED when their guy don't win but they get over it.
Now in Obama should win the popular vote and McCains was to get in office by the Electoral College, i think old ****** better keep off the streets.


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## ailsaek (Feb 7, 2007)

stranger said:


> Now in Obama should win the popular vote and McCains was to get in office by the Electoral College, i think old ****** better keep off the streets.


Why is everyone assuming only black people would be hitting the streets if there's anything like a reasonable perception that Obama got shafted?


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

I'm just speaking for myself not "everybody" as i don't know what everybody assumes, but black people have always spoke up when they think they're getting shafted, white people don't unless they belong to a union, then they send a rep down to negotiate. or they hire a lawyer, but most of the time they just shut up and go home.


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## Sustainable Joy (Nov 17, 2007)

stranger said:


> *I think you have 2008 America mixed up with 1964 Mississippi.* Everyone gets a POED when their guy don't win but they get over it.
> Now in Obama should win the popular vote and McCains was to get in office by the Electoral College, i think old ****** better keep off the streets.


Is that so? Hmm. Well, 3 years ago here in the Northeast bastion of liberalism *roll eyes* a white man threatened to "stomp that stroller" when he saw me and my newborn daughter minding our own business in a public place. I'm getting mighty sick of people telling me I don't experience racism. 

I won't be back in this thread.


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## ailsaek (Feb 7, 2007)

stranger said:


> I'm just speaking for myself not "everybody" as i don't know what everybody assumes, but black people have always spoke up when they think they're getting shafted, white people don't unless they belong to a union, then they send a rep down to negotiate. or they hire a lawyer, but most of the time they just shut up and go home.


I plan on speaking up, if it comes to it.


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

Sustainable Joy said:


> Is that so? Hmm. Well, 3 years ago here in the Northeast bastion of liberalism *roll eyes* a white man threatened to "stomp that stroller" when he saw me and my newborn daughter minding our own business in a public place. *I'm getting mighty sick of people telling me I don't experience racism. *
> I won't be back in this thread.


 you should have took it up with that person then and there. No one here has said that you don't experience racism.


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## mamajohnson (Nov 27, 2002)

Ruby said:


> Three of us ladies from my weight loss group have an overnight trip planned for the 5th and 6th. Everyone keep us in your prayers. We will have to go through Dallas to get to where we're going unless we go WAY out of the way. I will have my CCL with me and some protection.


Ruby, ya'll may just want to skirt around Dallas... even if it is longer. Or at least have your ears on! If you must go straight through on 30...well,,,, you could find a riot right there close to downtown - on several sides.
Be sure you don't have to get off the freeway!


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## MoGrrrl (Jan 19, 2007)

stranger said:


> I'm just speaking for myself not "everybody" as i don't know what everybody assumes, but black people have always spoke up when they think they're getting shafted, white people don't unless they belong to a union, then they send a rep down to negotiate. or they hire a lawyer, but most of the time they just shut up and go home.


I will just say this does not accurately reflect my experience as an activist.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Sustainable Joy said:


> Is that so? Hmm. Well, 3 years ago here in the Northeast bastion of liberalism *roll eyes* a white man threatened to "stomp that stroller" when he saw me and my newborn daughter minding our own business in a public place. I'm getting mighty sick of people telling me I don't experience racism.
> 
> I won't be back in this thread.


Don't know if this counts, but I was called a racial slur by a black fella once. He and his friend were getting every white person's face. A year after that I had a white guy trying to get under my skin because he thought I was a Mexican. Racism exsist on all sides. If your a minority were you live (of any skin color) your going to experience some bigotry.

Back to the subject matter, if McCain lost the popular vote but won the electoral college I would be out protesting. I think the idea of an electoral college is total BS and should be abolished.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I've re-opened this as there are some interesting conversations possible and we may learn from each other.

BUT, people stay FIRMLY on topic and not devolve into a "the whites/blacks are out to get us". That's a fairly unproductive line of thought.

I don't believe any of us are oblivious to the fact that this election is having a larger effect on the news and us than any that I can ever remember.

Angie


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

ailsaek said:


> Why is everyone assuming only black people would be hitting the streets if there's anything like a reasonable perception that Obama got shafted?


Precedent


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

I'm not assuming there would be post election violence but I do see where race can be a very bad component of potential violence. I'm NOT saying this to be biased, please bear with me, it ends up being tin foil hat related, I swear.

There could be racially motivated tension starting from *any* race, people who are angry and not thinking clearly. I'm not talking about educated voters I'm talking about fanatics looking for an excuse...............

With as many of us who wear tight foil hats there is an angle that goes beyond us vs. them mentalities. (I'm not negating their existance) Potential race issues are a very "knee jerk reactionary" way to cause infigthing amongst common citizens. Look how quickly it became a sensitive topic amongst us friends?!?!?!? People who normally act civilized can get ugly very quickly when part of a mob. Imagine that possibility occuring when a current president has the potential to invoke certain powers that we may think violate the constitution........imagine an artificially stimulated time of hostility that leads to loss of liberty and/or potential marshall law for our "safety".

What I'm talking about is the potential for peasants of all races to be fighting over scraps while the poilticos break more laws and take more cream off the top ie: ridiculous bail out scenarios that don't help us a bit.

Many of us prep types are fanatics about personal freedoms. For just a moment try to imagine how racial division could be used against us *all*. Don't just prep for post election, prep for more of the same games and financial decline to play out before our very eyes until our backs finally do break.


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## Jimmy B (Sep 22, 2007)

I think this was a great thread and appropriate to warn, suggest, and prepare for the possibilities of trouble. Some dance around there own true feelings and thoughts surrounding the upcoming election, others state theres. This is a very pivital point for all and don't kid yourselves either way there will be issues.

Thanks
JB


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

In my case, I live up the hill above a very liberal university town on the Left Coast. I can only imagine the youngsters (under 25 years old) running wild in the streets, fueled by alcohol, rage, and stupidity. 

To show what type of town it is down the hill - There is a local measure on the ballot to prohibit the military recruiters from contacting anyone under 18 years of age within the city limits. There have been many demonstrations, and all of the local military recruiters offices have had their windows all smashed out recently. This is all to keep the recruiters out of the high schools, and from contacting the under 18 year olds at home. 

Look at the recent protesting in Berkely, California by "Code Pink" against only the Marine Corps recruiters there. It has gotten ugly, with law enforcement needed to stop the veteran's angainst the 'code pink' folks.

Locally, I have had some minor vehicle vandalism (scratched mirrors and glass with the rocks that were used left on the hood/ roof) in the past - long before this election. Probally due to the US Marine Corps bumper stickers on my trucks, while legally parked in a blue/ handicapped parking spot.... They are not a very patriotic group in this area!!!! Even down at the local Veteran's Hall, we have had vandalism there on a monthly basis!! As the Post Adjutant, I am the one that gets to call and file a report with the city police..

That is why I am concerned, as to what may happen after the results of the election!!!! Nationally and Locally...

Will the City of Arcata P.D., the Humboldt County Sheriff's Office, and the University P.D. be able to contain almost 10,000 students (of high school, college, and university age) on a rampage???


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

The violence could come from any quarter. I have not, in my thoughts, limited it to simply racial violence. While that is still a serious issue, I do not believe it is the most pressing threat to our safety. 

I think the real threat is that we are on the precipice, prepared to take the long plunge down into a third world country. We won't be able to feed ourselves, hold on to our land, or protect our families from outlaws both civilian and federal. 

What bothers me most isn't the descent, but that the people who need most to band together and salvage things can't manage it. We're divided by the same problems the rest of the world are. We think we're superior to our coworkers and neighbors because we have a can of beans in our basement and a darker vision of the future, but yet we're still prey to exactly the same petty crap they are. 

I had a higher ideal, but I lost it. We couldn't hold it together. Now tomorrow, next week, next month, or next decade we're all going to walk in darkness alone. I'm afraid that it's going to be a long, painful time before we've suffered enough to start coming together again.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

radiofish said:


> There is a local measure on the ballot to prohibit the military recruiters from contacting anyone under 18 years of age within the city limits.


That is something I would fully support. I really think the age of recruitment should be 21. I think the tactic of using youthful ignorance as a recruitment tactic is rather low in my opinion.

As far as youth and rioting, it seems to go hand in hand. I think partially this is due to younger people having less to lose. I don't think this election is going to create any widespread violence. I would be willing to bet people aren't desperate enough and that they are too complacent for that senario to take place.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

stranger said:


> you should have took it up with that person then and there. No one here has said that you don't experience racism.



You mean, risk something with a guy who is nuts, with the baby present?

No, Joy should not have. The law will avenge you, not un-injure a child.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I would have supported that measure as well, but not the age of recruitment being raised to 21. I'm firmly in the belief that, if the legal age of accountability is going to be 18 then all matters pertaining to accountability should be stuck at 18, such as legalized alcohol consumption, voting, or military service. Otherwise you create a quasi-second class citizen status that exists from 18-20 where you can be punished by society as an adult but yet not fully partake in that society.

Our military has a tendency to recruit people as young as 16, getting them to sign "commitment papers" where they will formally enlist at age 18. While the commitment papers aren't legally binding, I'm not sure all these young men and women realize that and know that they have the option to change their minds. It's a shady recruiting practice that puts us more in line with countries like Uganda, Liberia, and Zimbabwe that are using child soldiers. 

America has never had a problem finding people to fight its wars. It only has ever had trouble recruiting people for its extended "police actions".


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Ernie said:


> I had a higher ideal, but I lost it. We couldn't hold it together. Now tomorrow, next week, next month, or next decade we're all going to walk in darkness alone. I'm afraid that it's going to be a long, painful time before we've suffered enough to start coming together again.



I am sorry to welcome you to the land of the jaded patriots. Remember a long time ago when I said we were a lot more alike than you knew........ Reality is a cruel mistress, I'm sorry to see you lose some enthusiasm, it happens to the best of us.


As the ship went down it was each man for himself. As the band played bravely on I am sure no one danced or can recall the name of the tune.........an enlightened man has no solace during an age of darkness. :soap:


The best way for me to prep is to decide what my priorities are in the long run. Am I prepping for job loss, snow storm, post apocolyptic survival or rebuilding? What is my eventual goal and what steps do I need to get there? After the dust settles what do I want my world to look like? Most importantly, what am I willing to sacrifice (now and later) in order to get there?


If there were post election violence it will be short lived. Most people are not prepared for anything more than a short burst of anger. A few days minus food and shower will crush the spirit of the avaerage rioter. As for now people have too much to lose. The violent dissent won't ignite until a larger portion of the population is desperately impoverished. Most people can't even manage to quit drinking coffee or smoking cigarettes, I don't see that as a resolve deep enough to fuel a SHTF type scenario. No one really cares deeply enough about politics to complain loudly for long, election 2000 proved that.

What I see is the potential for long term pockets of violence and random outbursts in very small random doses. (much like we have now when crackpots "lose it")


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

Terri said:


> You mean, risk something with a guy who is nuts, with the baby present?
> 
> No, Joy should not have. The law will avenge you, not un-injure a child.



who said he was nuts? a psychiatrist, if he was so nuts, what is he doing on the streets? there are 2 sides to every story, lets get his.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

stranger said:


> who said he was nuts? a psychiatrist, if he was so nuts, what is he doing on the streets? there are 2 sides to every story, lets get his.


Would you trust YOUR child to somebody who had just threatened to stomp him/her?

I remember opening newspapers and seeing another picture of a hanging Black person. There really are people who hate that much.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

stranger said:


> who said he was nuts? a psychiatrist, if he was so nuts, what is he doing on the streets? there are 2 sides to every story, lets get his.


There are 3 sides to every story. In many cases it is side A, side B and the truth in between.

My guess is that a woman who feels she may be vulnerable would be smart to *prep* with a strong will to walk away even if it hurts her pride and mace just in case things get ugly.

It doesn't matter who said what, feeling as if you must defend a child, rather than self is very scary no matter who said what to incite miscommunication. Good communication skills and powers of judgment and observation are likewise very important preps for *all* emergency situations.

No matter what really happened (I won't venture to judge since I wasn't there) I can see how an unexpected situation can get out of hand quickly. A prepper may want to consider just how random emergencies can be. Otherwise you may as well just be filling your pantry for winter, no?

It is not up to me if racially charged topics belong here. What I do know is that it and this thread in regards to it are a perfect illustration of how quickly things can get heated, confused and degrade. That is exactly how it could happen on a greater scale come election time.


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

Look, I was raised on a farm,worked in a prison,worked security, a weekend bartender, a truck driver,construction, heavy eq mechanic,logging and returned to the farm and have ran across every kind of people imaginable, but there are always two sides, did she try to push him out of the way because she had the stroller?, did she over react?
I take my SIL to the big city every couple months to a hospital for a ck up and i meet many people including women on the street and in door ways that push my button every 5 minutes. some people just want their half of the road and your half also. i'm not saying the she does, just 2 sides. case closed this is going no where.


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

*


hintonlady said:



There are 3 sides to every story. In many cases it is side A, side B and the truth in between..

Click to expand...

*correct you are, there is always the truth.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

stranger said:


> case closed this is going no where.



That is exactly what I was trying to point out. Obviously the case isn't closed, you are still arguing your point, walking away and refusing to see another perspective.


I've been a corrections officer, I've worked in bars, I've seen it all too.


I was not trying to point out any one person on the thread was correct or not. What I saw as a neutral observer is two people who *appear* to be a bit sensitive about the topic. Maybe one, both or neither of you are having a bad day. You both obviously feel passionately about your points of view, that is your right.

I'm trying to calmly say that some days people have thick skins, some days they don't. It is very easy to see how things can get confused, wires crossed and things miscommunicated. I'm not blaming you for your opinion just as I am not blaming her. She may have been polite that day she may not have, it doesn't matter in the context of a prepping forum. 

This all circles around, once again into how easily tensions can arise. Now imagine it on a larger scale.............

I have nothing against you stranger. Maybe you percieved that much like I percieved tension in this thread.


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## StatHaldol (Sep 1, 2006)

ailsaek said:


> Why is everyone assuming only black people would be hitting the streets if there's anything like a reasonable perception that Obama got shafted?


 If Obama loses a close race, come on down with me to New Orleans. I'll take you on a tour of the ninth ward and Algiers around midnight. 

It will be a good education....


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

I'm starting to sense a double standard.

If senior citizens had rioted in Florida during the 2000 election people would have applauded them for being brave patriots. It would have been reminiscent of colonial era revolutionary spirit in the face of tyranny. blah blah blah

Why am I feeling that if African Americans felt slighted over an election and politics in general that they have no right to speak out? Why is it assumed that their motives would be sinsiter in some way and less just?

The Boston tea party was held by lawless trouble makers yet we hold them in a higer esteem for defending their rights? Why is that just but the plight of others not?

edited to add: For a nation built on the backs of rebels, for a nation that preaches their principles we sure do expect a lot of rule following and conformity. Am I the only one who finds that odd?


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## StatHaldol (Sep 1, 2006)

hintonlady said:


> If senior citizens had rioted in Florida during the 2000 election


 That would be a sight to see!! Depends, canes and walkers all over the street!!


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

StatHaldol said:


> That would be a sight to see!! Depends, canes and walkers all over the street!!



.....and over as soon as matlock came on :nana:


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## StatHaldol (Sep 1, 2006)

hintonlady said:


> .....and over as soon as matlock came on :nana:


 It would have to be over by 5pm so they could make the "Early Bird" special for dinner!!


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

StatHaldol said:


> It would have to be over by 5pm so they could make the "Early Bird" special for dinner!!


Hey now, be nice. I like senior citizens, they are always prepped for guests and have full candy dishes in the living room. Not to mention a kleenex in the purse when you are desperate for one.

You should see my Moms purse, that lady is prepped for a world war.


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## StatHaldol (Sep 1, 2006)

hintonlady said:


> Hey now, be nice. I like senior citizens, they are always prepped for guests and have full candy dishes in the living room. Not to mention a kleenex in the purse when you are desperate for one.
> 
> You should see my Moms purse, that lady is prepped for a world war.


 I like them too; that's my future...sooner than later!


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

We need to start a new thread, survival with the average womans purse contents, lol.


Nail file
bubble gum
ball point pen
lighter
fem. hygiene products
kleenex
rain bonnet
loose change
mirror
nail polish remover
bottle of water

.....you get the idea. Some of those things can certainly be good preps if you are imaginative. I could make two incidniary devices from the above items alone  I would still have extra goodies to play with after too!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Can we move past the baby and the man in the face and what should have been done? We were not there, and do not know the conditions. But being a Mom, I do go all angry bear if someone messes with my child. (then and now).

I really like what may be in a purse that would be useful if stranded somewhere. (oh darn! that is probably sexist, so we will included men's pockets also)

Angie


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## Wildwood (Jul 2, 2007)

It's obvious some of you have never witnessed racial prejudice in it's purest form. I have no doubt whatsoever that Joy experienced that event just exactly as she described it and with no provocation on her part. This thread has been racial since the first post and I don't think it should have only been closed...I think it should have been deleted. I can't decide if I'm more disappointed or shocked at the turn of this thread. I've seen much less controversial subjects deleted.

Bash away! And by the way I'm a middle aged white woman in an area that is 99% white and if I find it offensive, I can't imagine how a young black woman trying to participate on this board would feel.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

PhilJohnson said:


> As far as youth and rioting, it seems to go hand in hand. I think partially this is due to younger people having less to lose. I don't think this election is going to create any widespread violence. I would be willing to bet people aren't desperate enough and that they are too complacent for that senario to take place.


I think it will be mostly youth, if anyone. I think it will be people who are taking advantage of the current atmosphere. I have said before, the people that riot could very well be people who didn't even bother to vote. I don't know that the election will be the CAUSE as much as the OPPORTUNITY. But that is my take.

Kayleigh


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## Razorback21 (May 13, 2003)

Wildwood said:


> It's obvious some of you have never witnessed racial prejudice in it's purest form. I have no doubt whatsoever that Joy experienced that event just exactly as she described it and with no provocation on her part. This thread has been racial since the first post and I don't think it should have only been closed...I think it should have been deleted. I can't decide if I'm more disappointed or shocked at the turn of this thread. I've seen much less controversial subjects deleted.
> 
> Bash away! And by the way I'm a middle aged white woman in an area that is 99% white and if I find it offensive, I can't imagine how a young black woman trying to participate on this board would feel.


Racial overtones on this thread? I agree. Thread should be deleted? I disagree. We Americans figure the best way to handle racial tension is to ignore it, or least not talk about for fear of being labeled a "racist". Problems don't get solved, by pretending they are not there.

People have justification to fear possible riots as it relates to possible outcomes of the election. It is not being racist at all. We have past precedent in most of our lifetimes that riots by Americans of African ancestry is a possible scenario. Doesn't it mean it is probable to happen; does mean that is certainly within the realm of possibility however. 

I was a child living in the Frayser area of Memphis on April 3, 1968. Believe me, I have a precedent to be concerned about possible riots and that doesn't make me a racist.


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## Wildwood (Jul 2, 2007)

Razorback21 said:


> Racial overtones on this thread? I agree. Thread should be deleted? I disagree. We Americans figure the best way to handle racial tension is to ignore it, or least not talk about for fear of being labeled a "racist". Problems don't get solved, by pretending they are not there.
> 
> People have justification to fear possible riots as it relates to possible outcomes of the election. It is not being racist at all. We have past precedent in most of our lifetimes that riots by Americans of African ancestry is a possible scenario. Doesn't it mean it is probable to happen; does mean that is certainly within the realm of possibility however.
> 
> I was a child living in the Frayser area of Memphis on April 3, 1968. Believe me, I have a precedent to be concerned about possible riots and that doesn't make me a racist.


I spent 15 years living just south of Memphis in north Mississippi starting in 1971. I understand the concern about riots and I have no problem with discussing that issue. It's the way some of it went that I have a problem with. I'm very willing to agree to disagree and you will seldom ever see me post a strong opinion...I like to get along with everyone but ever once in a while, maybe every couple of years or so something gets my dander up and I feel so strongly about it I have to voice my opinion even if it means I lose friends on the board. I feel very srongly about the way Joy was treated.


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

There are some aspects to think about, especially when dealing with large groups of people. The reasons they come together into the same space do greatly matter. 

If they come for the unified purpose or mutual purpose of peaceful social commentary, you get the Selma walk for civil rights. Or the 100,000 strong response in Salamanca Spain (and more groups across Spain) of people wearing white gloves or painting their hands white and protesting the assassination of a Madrid, Spain university professor by a Basque ETA domestic terrorist and shouting "Basta Ya - enough already/we are fed up) while holding banners stating the same.

If they come together for the unified purpose or mutual purpose of aggressive social commentary, you can get something like a somewhat peaceful but borderline dangerous University of Kansas Orange Bowl celebration when spirits are high but wouldn't take much for them to act out against someone not a fan of the team. You can also get more aggressive responses such as other university sports fans trashing urban areas or, worst case, such as the L.A. riots after the Rodney King verdict.

I believe that the tensions may not be as much based on race but the latent beliefs that the system is broken, racially based judgements or even a desire to rise with the tide of emotion with others but carry out one's own acts while in a group of others. Looters in New Orleans come to mind, where some went for live saving or prolonging essentials while others did it for greed or a desire to stick it to whomever they thought had wronged them.

Given that the political fervor as well as racially based ideologies are running rampant across the country, I don't think it would take much, especially with the ability to send information worldwide in an instant, for something to happen. Those who may wish to take advantage of the situation could also add their acts to the actions of others doing something else.

I am roughly a mile from the University of Kansas, downhill of them. It wouldn't be that hard for students to pour out down my way, though more likely they would head toward downtown as it is just as far but more of a Liberal gathering site. This would be due to lots of student rented apartments and Liberal leaning culture there.

Also, I am about half an hour from both Topeka and the Kansas City metro area as well as about half an hour from Ottawa (Kansas) which has been figured into a gang travel point due to its easy access to both KC metro and Topeka. Lawrence is in the middle of major high speed travel routes and has enough political turmoil without elections due to the mix of politicized groups that already protest regularly on this issue or that.

The kindling is stacked and well placed and the major logs have been laid upon it in the form of this year's presidential election. I can only hope that the matches and lighter fluid are not added somewhere, someplace.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

I have been discriminated against for at least a handful of various reasons and the discrimintaion came from a handful of different types. I am aware of discrimintaion but rest assured it is not ONLY a color issue. It is painful no matter why it happens, when it happens a lot it does get frustrating.

Perhaps I personally did not do a good job in explaining: I did not and still do not take sides in this thread. I was hoping to bridge the gap in communication or at least ease some tension. I have no no opinion except for

*This is exactly how miscommunication starts*, miscommunication that leads to anger and possibly violence. Doesn't matter if I am purple, mad at the dog from down the road for eating my chickens or a lady at the store who took the newest elmo doll out of my cart during a hoilday sale.


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

My previous comment, I will point out specifically, is about Lawrence where the majority are white, very well educated folks. However, we are near areas where the socioeconomic mix is not as well off financially or educationally. We also have existing gang and drug issues as well as politically hot topics. Mix all of this together and one way or another there will be someone, somewhere wanting to make a statement.

I don't fear any one group specifically. Rather I fear the perfect storm of sorts when we have so many groups with hot blood rising from so many areas at the same time.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

Ernie said:


> I would have supported that measure as well, but not the age of recruitment being raised to 21. I'm firmly in the belief that, if the legal age of accountability is going to be 18 then all matters pertaining to accountability should be stuck at 18, such as legalized alcohol consumption, voting, or military service. Otherwise you create a quasi-second class citizen status that exists from 18-20 where you can be punished by society as an adult but yet not fully partake in that society. Agreeing with you here.
> 
> Our military has a tendency to recruit people as young as 16, getting them to sign "commitment papers" where they will formally enlist at age 18. While the commitment papers aren't legally binding, I'm not sure all these young men and women realize that and know that they have the option to change their minds. It's a shady recruiting practice that puts us more in line with countries like Uganda, Liberia, and Zimbabwe that are using child soldiers. Just curious, how does recruiting a 16yo high school junior or senior correlate to kidnapping a 6yo after killing his entire family?
> 
> America has never had a problem finding people to fight its wars. It only has ever had trouble recruiting people for its extended "police actions".


They aren't having problems now. You will hear about "recruiting numbers down" every once in a while, but if you listen, you will also hear about how the recruits today are better educated and older. But you have to listen closely, because the "All Army Recruits are Dropouts" headlines will be shouted from the rooftops for days, but anything esle, anything positive, you might see that once, in print only, and then never hear it again.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

Mobs are mobs, regardless of color, age, or agenda. Sometimes there is a fairly understandable reason for their anger, if not their methods of expressing it. Rampant injustice or threats to my children, I could understand.

However, sometimes mob violence is merely an outlet for petty minds full of unfounded anger. In the university town where my dh works there is one day every year when this happens. Not Halloween. Not some religious holiday. Not the commemoration of some political leader. It happens the night we turn the clocks ahead for Daylight Savings time. The students are so incensed by losing one hour of time in the bars that night that they riot. Cars are overturned, windows smashed, fires started. General violence and mayhem.

My point here is that although mob violence may occur in response to understandable frustration, it also may occur just because some people are mad and have no respect for the property of others. Some people just go around looking for a reason to fight. It takes very little to set them off and often they don't even really care about the issue at hand, they just like having an excuse to destroy something.

The bottom line is that I do not want to be held hostage by those people. I don't want to be forced to fear that some little something may set someone off. I hope that any rioters on Election Evening will be arrested by whatever means necessary and held accountable to the letter of the law. I don't care if they are black, white, pink, or purple (or wrinkley). If they are destroying property, threatening the safety of others, or breaking laws, into the slammer with them. We have plenty of other ways of expressing dissent in this country available to us that do not violate the rights of others. Protest all you want, speak your mind on the public square or street corner, take out ads in the local paper, run for office and vote for those who have not compromised their position. It's not like one puny riot (or even several large ones) is going to change the electoral system where these other expressions won't. My brother's small business and his employees should not have to suffer and walk in fear because someone is pi**ed off about something completely unrelated to them. IMO, rioters are nothing but bullies and should be stopped.


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## mamajohnson (Nov 27, 2002)

AngieM2 said:


> Can we move past the baby and the man in the face and what should have been done? We were not there, and do not know the conditions. But being a Mom, I do go all angry bear if someone messes with my child. (then and now).
> 
> I really like what may be in a purse that would be useful if stranded somewhere. (oh darn! that is probably sexist, so we will included men's pockets also)
> 
> Angie


Hey I have known guys that carry 'men bags' lol!
they had lots of stuff in there!

I have downsized, I could only partially save the world with my purse contents.
And I no longer have toy cars or barbies residing there. 
Guess I need to go find some of the confiscated lighters (boys, ya know!) and place one in there - just in case.

I guess I am on the precipice of 'old lady' because most of the girls at church come to me when they need help..... kleenex, brush, hygiene products, bobby pens, safety pens.... yep, mamaj always has what they need!


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## Mutti (Sep 7, 2002)

Already voted absentee...don't gotta go anywhere on election day....DEE


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## GingerN (Apr 24, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> I'm a Mom - eyes in the back of my head...:shrug:
> 
> Angie


You got eyes in the back of the head with your babies? I feel gipped. I only got a little bird that tells me stuff. Must be hereditary-I told my mama that when I got grown, I was gonna kill that little birdy that kept me in trouble.:viking:


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

GingerN said:


> You got eyes in the back of the head with your babies? I feel gipped. I only got a little bird that tells me stuff. Must be hereditary-I told my mama that when I got grown, I was gonna kill that little birdy that kept me in trouble.:viking:


That's Birdism and you should be ashamed of yourself!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Well, brave patriots and revolutionaries aren't usually breaking windows to steal flatscreen televisions and NIKE shoes. Again, that's not a racial issue. That's a thief issue.

If post-election I see some true revolutionary action I may go help them, not condemn them. But the purpose of my initial post was to warn that there might be a problem. Newspapers are talking about it, police forces are preparing for it, I figured we needed to prepare as well.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-riots-if-Barack-Obama-loses-US-election.html


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

You know, I take offense that this whole thread was racist from the beginning. It wasn't. I don't consider myself a racist in any form and I don't think I've ever posted anything here or on any forum that would lead people to believe I am.

So let me throw out another scenario for you. Let's say that Obama leads in the polls by 30% but on election day the scene is fraught with voting irregularities, problems with the voting machines, early shutdowns, police blocking voting sites, etc. After all those irregularities and the huge polling lead, McCain somehow comes out the winner by a large margin. 

Do you think there's going to be problems? Oh you better believe there will be unrest, regardless of skin color. Would I agree that the unrest is probably warranted? Yes, a little civil unrest is a good thing. Would I want to be caught in that situation with my family and no firearms, ammunition, gasoline, or pineapple? No way. 

A number of years ago, all it would have taken was for Al Gore to say, "No, we don't accept the Supreme Court's decision" and people would possibly have taken up arms. And the difference between Al Gore and George Bush is relatively slight compared to McCain and Obama. I'm not talking about age and skin tone here either. They share completely different ideologies. 

So what happens if a candidate who perceives he's been screwed over by a corrupt election process says live on CNN, "If you believe in hope for the future, change, and justice then it's time to take to the streets"? What do you think is going to happen? While there might be a lot of patriots out there, you can bet there will be a lot of thieves, brigands, rapists, and murderers as well. 

From top to bottom we are a criminal society. Heck, even here on this forum there's usually someone who jokes on the sly that, "if a problem happens I'll just steal from those who prepped when I didn't." If that mentality is open enough to be joked about then you'd better believe plenty of people hold it as a real option.


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## ailsaek (Feb 7, 2007)

StatHaldol said:


> If Obama loses a close race, come on down with me to New Orleans. I'll take you on a tour of the ninth ward and Algiers around midnight.
> 
> It will be a good education....


You guys are missing my point. There are a lot of non-black Obama supporters, in fact we're probably the majority.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

And there are blacks that are not Obama supporters. As a couple have told me in person this week. 

So - to conclude from this - there are supporters of all shades of skin tones for each candidate.

Angie


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Ernie said:


> So what happens if a candidate who perceives he's been screwed over by a corrupt election process says live on CNN, "If you believe in hope for the future, change, and justice then it's time to take to the streets"?


Going out on a limb here but I don't think that is Obama's style. Speaking in the hypothetical......if the populace as a majority agreed with him and felt he was their rightfully elected leader I could definitely see sparks flying. I could see dissent in a rainbow of colors a group of angry villagers who could care less about petty crime.

If something happened like that the person would be marked as a terrorist and dealt with quickly. Civil unrest makes the politicos very edgy.


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

AngieM2 said:


> And there are blacks that are not Obama supporters. As a couple have told me in person this week.
> 
> So - to conclude from this - there are supporters of all shades of skin tones for each candidate.
> 
> Angie


I think Ernie and I, and a few others, agree with you on this matter.

For my part my major concern is that it is not going to be any one group that goes off the deep end, rather several different demographics that might feed off of each other for perhaps similar, or different, reasons but give the same results, mainly chaos in the streets. Add to that those who would enjoy using the cover of the chaos for their own ends and you would have a nice big mess to deal with.

My concern overall is that we will have a variety of groups responding to this situation and have a larger effect as a whole than any one single group would have by itself.


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

I am counting on the goodness of 90% of Americans to act like they have some sense and control their tempers if their candidate does not win the election. So I'm pretty sure that riots and violence won't be the problem for most of us. 

However, I have read on some democrat boards that if Sen. Obama does not win it will be because the republicans stole the election - & they are saying that everyone should have a bag packed so that they can decind on Washington DC in protest. Now, if Obama loses and if there are a majority of Obama supporters who will actually converge on DC to protest, that will cause some major traffic problems.......it could disrupt transportation on the east coast for a few days, that could cause supply problems for gas stations, grocery stores, pharmacies and <gulp> beer distributors. (lame joke, sorry) Anyway, those that don't prep could find themselves without basic necessities and that could cause problems. Being prepared to spend a few days isolated at home is a good idea (folks here already are, though) 

I have not checked out the republican boards, it may very well be that there is a plan afoot for them to protest if McCain does not win.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

hintonlady said:


> Going out on a limb here but I don't think that is Obama's style. Speaking in the hypothetical......if the populace as a majority agreed with him and felt he was their rightfully elected leader I could definitely see sparks flying. I could see dissent in a rainbow of colors a group of angry villagers who could care less about petty crime.
> 
> If something happened like that the person would be marked as a terrorist and dealt with quickly. Civil unrest makes the politicos very edgy.


I agree, that's not like him, nor is it like McCain . . . . 

But it _is_ like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, et al.

Obama would not call for "protests," but some of his "supporters" would.

(I said "supporters" because these people voluntarily aligned themselves with him, so his camp gets them, even if they don't want them.)


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Ernie said:


> I would have supported that measure as well, but not the age of recruitment being raised to 21. I'm firmly in the belief that, if the legal age of accountability is going to be 18 then all matters pertaining to accountability should be stuck at 18, such as legalized alcohol consumption, voting, or military service. Otherwise you create a quasi-second class citizen status that exists from 18-20 where you can be punished by society as an adult but yet not fully partake in that society.
> 
> Our military has a tendency to recruit people as young as 16, getting them to sign "commitment papers" where they will formally enlist at age 18. While the commitment papers aren't legally binding, I'm not sure all these young men and women realize that and know that they have the option to change their minds. It's a shady recruiting practice that puts us more in line with countries like Uganda, Liberia, and Zimbabwe that are using child soldiers.
> 
> America has never had a problem finding people to fight its wars. It only has ever had trouble recruiting people for its extended "police actions".


Ernie - I enlisted into the US Marine Corps at the age of 17 and 1/2 years old, my parents signed for me to join 1 week after graduating from High School in 1978. That was when the legal drinking age in Michigan was 18 years old, and the voting age was 18 years old - as a result of the protests from the Viet-Nam era. 

The recruiters did not hold a weapon to my head or have me enlist under duress back then, and it is the same today. Once in a while, I do go and say hello to the local recruiters, and to show them that the entire community does not want them out of the area.

As Ovsfarm posted, it does not take much for the youngsters to get upset. I listen to it every weekend on the police scanner as the bars kick them out at closing time. Several police departments have to push the drunken students off of the plaza, and the students reply with throwing items, pushing back, and getting arrested.

It does not take much for mob violence to erupt if there is a catalyist to get the momentum going. I have seen it as a child during the 1967 Detroit riots, after natural disasters, and during times of hightened emotions.


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## wvstuck (Sep 19, 2008)

WOW! That was interesting, a thread about preparing for something that "May" happen, turned in to a thread about Racism in America. I have never seen so many people try to hide how they feel by carefully wording things around the truth.

I feel an uprising on some level is certainly likely, no matter the outcome, the response of the Candidates and the Media directly afterward will determine how far it escalates. If someone of any American Race that has the public eye chooses to throw gasoline on the fire, then it could get rather ugly. Otherwise we will all go back to worrying about the economy and the far worse things headed our way irregardless of the outcome of this election.

We are all members of this forum, we should learn to tolerate each others opinions without judgment. Sure this election is nasty, it even has preppers cutting each others throats. The family feeling of this forum is coming unraveled.

I support McCain, I respect those who oppose me (even though I don't understand why they don't understand me ... Since there is more than one choice and we are free to make up our own minds, the foundation of the Republic is still standing! God Bless America.


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

I guess we need AA batteries, a bathtub full of water (for flushing the toilet), some drinking water, and, um... well, that's it. We have a couple of flats of canned pineapple in the pantry (Thank you, Sam's and Costco!).

I'm not particularly concerned about rioting. Like almost everyone else in WV I live in a 99.9% white area far from a major city. I'd feel differently if I still lived in Atlanta, you betcha. The last election, DH and I only saw 2 or 3 other people at the polling station when we went to vote. 

That reminds me, our volunteers start at about 5 a.m. and don't quit until about 8 p.m., what with all the prep and cleanup. They don't do shifts, and they don't get a lunch break. Those three women are there for the duration. I told them last election I'd bring them a snack.


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## Gregg Alexander (Feb 18, 2007)

I have stores of supplies , can hold out for a short while


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

ailsaek said:


> You guys are missing my point. There are a lot of non-black Obama supporters, in fact we're probably the majority.


We got your point, we were trying to be polite and ignore it... but since you keep bringing it up.

The thread has been about rioting. You've intimated that if Obama doesn't win you would think about joining in on it. You didn't directly say that, but that's the only conclusion I can draw from your statements... unless you missed the point that this was a discussion about rioting/civil unrest .

Assuming you didn't miss that point (about this discussion being about rioting), why do think that if Obama loses that it's worthy of protest or rioting?



> Eh. If it's rioting because McCain lost, it's highly unlikely to be within 100 miles of me. If it rioting because Obama lost, I'll make myself a sign and go join the nearest vigil.


According to your posts it sure seems like you'll join rioting if Obama loses.

THAT is the exact reason this thread was started... and as you said, you're white... so the cries of racism against Ernie just don't cut it.

Seems to me, Ernie was spot on.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

seedspreader said:


> We got your point, we were trying to be polite and ignore it... but since you keep bringing it up.
> 
> The thread has been about rioting. You've intimated that if Obama doesn't win you would think about joining in on it. You didn't directly say that, but that's the only conclusion I can draw from your statements... unless you missed the point that this was a discussion about rioting/civil unrest .
> 
> ...



Whoa whoa whoa, seedspreader agreeing with Ernie? What the heck? I just figure this place out and you go changing the rules on me?


I'm confused and not sure if I support this message.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

hintonlady said:


> Whoa whoa whoa, seedspreader agreeing with Ernie? What the heck? I just figure this place out and you go changing the rules on me?
> 
> 
> I'm confused and not sure if I support this message.


LOL, ernie and I agree on almost everything except the degrees of the ideology probably.

We're both weak-minded Christians, you know.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

seedspreader said:


> LOL, ernie and I agree on almost everything except the degrees of the ideology probably.
> 
> We're both weak-minded Christians, you know.




You opened yourself up there pal, :banana02: but today, because I like you..........I'll cut you some slack. 


I like: 
degrees of separation
degrees plato

But this degrees of ideology thing you speak of, hmmmm. Oh gosh, does that mean you and I may agree on things? :rotfl:


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## toadshadegal (Jun 10, 2008)

This thread is very interesting because my husband and I were just talking about the chances of violence after the election. We live in an area that is heavily Republican and my question to my husband was "How do you think the people around here will react to an Obama win?". Since it seems likely he will, we have decided to stay home for a few days after the election and finish outside chores before winter weather.


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

Conservatives generally don't fight until you push them into a corner.

Liberals generally fight if you challenge their views and ideologies with facts.

Third party candidates prefer to debate and live and let live in the end.


Now, as for what I have been hearing about the issue of race and violence due to the elections, NPR had someone in rural Wisconsin ask why it was brought up as they already have things on edge in her state as it is. Others responding to the same story asked, on both sides, how much the other candidate paid to have the topic on the program. NPR is not for one side or the other, at least from what I have heard in their stories, and it really is on both sides better than any other media outlet.

I think, for my part of the world at the moment, that I would be ok outside of Lawrence in the rural area between that city and my work in Topeka. Inside the urban areas all bets are off. I am fifty/fifty as to how I feel as of this moment. I hope for the best but am preparing for the worst.


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## chris30523 (Jun 11, 2005)

I thought this post was about being prepared for post election violence not whether it will or will not happen. Just by the emotional responses here to this question makes me want to be more prepared. I pre-voted and will be staying home for a few days.


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## MoGrrrl (Jan 19, 2007)

reluctantpatriot said:


> Conservatives generally don't fight until you push them into a corner.
> 
> Liberals generally fight if you challenge their views and ideologies with facts.
> 
> Third party candidates prefer to debate and live and let live in the end.


Aw, c'mon. Which are you? Can I guess? (EDIT TO ADD: I mostly mean this as a gentle jest. It seems like we all think the "other side" is more likely to cause trouble.)

My DH and I are liberals. Probably what most would refer to as bleeding heart, knee jerk liberals. And we are also peaceful people. I think the majority of any of these groups will try to get you to see their side, maybe argue. Avoidance or "working the system" or other ways to deal with it. We have conservatives and liberals in my family, and I think the conservatives are the most argumentative - us liberals just want to have a family meal without heartburn. (Of course, my Dad loves to get a rise out of me for any reason.)

Back more to prepping, I think a cool head is one of your best assets.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Me and Seedspreader ... bitterly clinging to our guns and religion. 

I don't give myself any label, but if someone else were to they're probably call me a libertarian-revolutionary-anarchist-Christian-wacko. Yeah. That fits.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Ernie said:


> Me and Seedspreader ... bitterly clinging to our guns and religion.
> 
> I don't give myself any label, but if someone else were to they're probably call me a libertarian-revolutionary-anarchist-Christian-wacko. Yeah. That fits.


Well I DO live in Western Pa. you know.


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## lorian (Sep 4, 2005)

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen so many different conversations/rabbit trails emanating from one post.

Anyway, a month ago my DH brought up the subject of post-election violence.
I poo-pooed him. But after reading this thread........I'm really glad to be living in the middle
of nowhere.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

I am glad we live in the middle of nowhere too.

If that rowdy Mr. Crosby across the street comes at me... I'll step back out of the reach of his oxygen tank/tube.


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## Modern Pioneer (Jun 9, 2008)

Im not too concerned with post election violence. It may happen, but down where i live i doubt it. I am very happy yo be away from the big city. I wont change a thing on or post election day, just keep on keeping on. I will however keep my ears glued to the radio/tv. You never know what may happen. This thread has been all over the place. I just have to say that as i appear to be a white man and i actually look like a "good ol' boy" , but appearences are decieving. I too have experienced the name calling, strange looks, people crossing the street to avoid me, even threats of violence. Its always funny when i meet people for the first time and im wearing long sleeves, and how i seem like a nice, clean cut "christian"till i roll up my sleeves. I dont beleive in racial seperation. To me there is only 1 race, the human race. Now if we are going to fight about racism what about all those aliens? The ones that arent human?? Haha

kEEP YOUR POWDER DRY.


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## Razorback21 (May 13, 2003)

Wow, this thread is still going!!!!! Preparing for Post Election Violence....Isn't that like a yes or no question? Either you are or you ain't?!!!!!!! lol. Oh well, there always has to been one thread that seems to go on and on, might as well be this one. I guess this thread is only good until November 5, then we'll find out what the answer is to whether there will be any widespread rioting. Well, back to prepping....


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

Razorback21 said:


> Wow, this thread is still going!!!!! Preparing for Post Election Violence....Isn't that like a yes or no question? Either you are or you ain't?!!!!!!! lol. Oh well, there always has to been one thread that seems to go on and on, might as well be this one. I guess this thread is only good until November 5, then we'll find out what the answer is to whether there will be any widespread rioting. Well, back to prepping....


Answer a yes or no question with yes or no? Are you crazy? I don't think any of us are _capable_ of just answering yes or no, even if we wanted to!


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Modern Pioneer said:


> Im not too concerned with post election violence. It may happen, but down where i live i doubt it. I am very happy yo be away from the big city. I wont change a thing on or post election day, just keep on keeping on. I will however keep my ears glued to the radio/tv. You never know what may happen. This thread has been all over the place. I just have to say that as i appear to be a white man and i actually look like a "good ol' boy" , but appearences are decieving. I too have experienced the name calling, strange looks, people crossing the street to avoid me, even threats of violence. Its always funny when i meet people for the first time and im wearing long sleeves, and how i seem like a nice, clean cut "christian"till i roll up my sleeves. I dont beleive in racial seperation. To me there is only 1 race, the human race. Now if we are going to fight about racism what about all those aliens? The ones that arent human?? Haha
> 
> kEEP YOUR POWDER DRY.



Sleeves huh, sweeeeet! I get that type of discrimintaion, among others too. 


As for post election violence I vote for bankers to get mugged for their parachute bonus deals. I think they were a little too economically stimulated and I want my portion back. :viking:

edited to add: If they had done a good job worthy of a bonus wouldn't they have NOT needed .gov to cover it? Isn't messing up a bank system sort of a no no? :shrug:


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

Yes or no.

There, are we happy now? :dance:

Ok, time for :icecream: and :spam: and then a :zzz:.

Never be it said that I have no sense of humor. I am a Browncoat living in an Alliance controlled town. I _*HAVE*_ to have a sense of humor to handle that.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

reluctantpatriot said:


> Yes or no.
> 
> There, are we happy now? :dance:
> 
> ...



*YES*

However, I reserve the right to discriminate for whom I am cheering and towards whom this violence seems fair. 


I'm all for semi trucks running over voting computers should that be an issue. I'm tired of chads, touch screen fat finger syndrome and l o n g drawn out post election drama.

Therefore I reserve the right to violently defend my desire to not have Jerry Springer intterupted by news updates regarding cases pending in the supreme court for recounts. Give them pistols and let them duel it out. End of story.

Oh yeah, I get to wedgie any smug voters who brag that their candidate won, no matter who it is. Is a wedgie considered violent? I'm sure it is an assault but not sure if it would be considered violent.

So who's with me? :viking:


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Oh, my bad. I thought we were voting on if we wanted post election violence. 

If it's just about prepping for it, well gosh NO. This is a prepping forum, haven't we all prepped for stuff already? Same paranoid preppers lifestyle differnt day!

Aw shucks is my face red...................


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

hintonlady said:


> *YES*
> 
> However, I reserve the right to discriminate for whom I am cheering and towards whom this violence seems fair.
> 
> ...


At this point in time in this election, you sound surprisingly rational.

Wow, this _has_ been a bad one, hasn't it?


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

Narshalla said:


> At this point in time in this election, you sound surprisingly rational.
> 
> Wow, this _has_ been a bad one, hasn't it?


We aren't talking rational dear, we have just cracked to the point that we just sound like it. 

I hear them coming to take me away to the funny farm where the sky is green and the grass is purple.....:dance:


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

reluctantpatriot said:


> We aren't talking rational dear, we have just cracked to the point that we just sound like it.
> 
> I hear them coming to take me away to the funny farm where the sky is green and the grass is purple.....:dance:



Not US with the :TFH:


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

. "That night" . .I will do my usual and not turn the telly on until the 11 pm . ."news".

Any "watching" of the boob tube that day or evening can only lead to indigestion, gray hair, tooht knawing, anxziety, indigestion, hyper tension, cursing, you get the idea.

I've seen it before......"AND OHIO IS PROJECTED..........."
Opps gotta "cut away" and go to Rita Hot Lips in Poodunk with this "special report"...................................

Blabbering idiots trying to sound like they know something.

If thats your kind of "entertainment" well then have at it.

Gotta get a good nights sleep before I put up a 120 foot tower and turbine on the 5th.


I'm Jim from Mich and I approve of this message.


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## mamajohnson (Nov 27, 2002)

I can already tell ya, curiosity will get this cat! I will have fox on full time to see what happens.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

ailsaek said:


> Why is everyone assuming only black people would be hitting the streets if there's anything like a reasonable perception that Obama got shafted?


The college elitists would demonstrate... a few of them (friends of O[Ayers]) might actually throw a few molotov cocktails. Guess I should qualify that by saying Urban White Elitists... If rioting does occur, it would only be Karma biting them in the rear...

All I have to go on is experience, and I read, and have read, voraciously, all of my life. How many riots have caucasians, asians, American Natives, hispanics precipitated in the last century? Where individuals in the riot went out and run through the stores, 'shopping'?

I still say, no matter what your race, religion, or ethnicity, if you live in the country, you should be safe. If, you discover your race, religion, or ethnic group is rioting in the big cities, and you wish to join them, pass thru the countryside quietly, and join them. Bring it home, and you'll find red blooded Americans, of all races, religions, and ethnicity, ready willing and able to end the discussion quickly, if not somewhat noisily.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm going third party also, for the first time in my life. I just got so fed up with having to vote for someone I didn't like to try to keep out someone I really, really didn't like. Until I did some research and decided on my third party choice, I was seriously considering not voting for a presidential candidate at all for the first time since I was old enough to vote. The Big Two had soured me on the whole process to the point where I was ready to pass on exercising that most basic and important right.

I am also refusing to vote for any candidate who sent me a postcard full of tattles on their opponent. I don't consider anyone with the kindergarten mindset capable of performing well in office.


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## SCRich (Feb 27, 2008)

It's not a race issue it would be an emmotional issue. I don't see the need to edit or delete this topic. I have not been on here in a couple of months and this is the first place I thought to come and see what others were thinking. Deleting and editing of posts is very powerful to some, my family came from a communist country and the supression of speech is one of the first things to happen in a socalist or communist regime. The HTF site should be the place that like people go to find information that may effect their lives, is that not why the forum is here?

I think there are just as many chances of McCain supporters rioting as there are Obamma supporters. As someone else mentioned people riot when their favorite sports team loses and people riot when their favorite sports team wins. Take that into account we have 4 different outcomes where rioting can happen, either a loss or win on either side and take into account how many people are affected by current events in the country and it numbers a lot of more people than follow sports I think there is a VERY good chance it may happen.

Prep? I don't think it's that likley that it will happen and effect people on a widespread basis. I live in the country but work all over, both city, innercity and country. I can't carry while working or even in my company truck, I'll stay away from large population areas on Tuesday and Wed if at all possible but I am also on-call for the week and will be working 24/7. 

What will I do ? I am going to make sure I have fuel in all of our cars/trucks. Make sure the tractor is filled up and I have 20 extra gallons of gas and diesel. I am not buying more ammo than what I have but I'll make sure I have it set asside and possibly loaded in a few magazines. I'll be going food shopping tonight and will make sure I got the essential stuff like toilet paper and cookies.

Have I been shopping for a new gun ? Yes...but not because of the riots but because I think that sales will continue to increase as they have been for the past month and it will become a supply/demand problem. I am particular as to what I buy and I want to try to buy it now instead of having to order it, pay in full MSRP + some stupid surcharge (price gouge) and then wait months to have it delivered.


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## SCRich (Feb 27, 2008)

ovsfarm said:


> I'm going third party also, for the first time in my life. I just got so fed up with having to vote for someone I didn't like to try to keep out someone I really, really didn't like.



I hear you BUT like the others have said WHO ELSE is running ? This race, as with most of all the previous ones is just 2 sided. Voting 3rd party accomplishes nothing in the election other than to make you feel better in saying you voted. Voting for a 3rd party in reality is not sending a message to the "big 2" they will never know and it will not affect the outcome of the election. Not that I do not agree a 3rd party person will probably do a better job but it's a matter of hurting ourselves. If we value our democratic liberties and ANY of our firearms voting No Bamma or No Cain is just like voting for Mr. OBamma and I think it has been made very clear that the American liberties will be changing if he is given the opportunity. I am very afraid it will be the begining of the UNdoing of our country as we know it. If he is as soft spoken as he is with his views it will slowly approach us and before we know it we will be another socialist country. BUT if he becomes vocal I am sure he will not succeed and he will be voted out in 4 years or sooner. We will see. :soap:


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

SCRich said:


> I hear you BUT like the others have said WHO ELSE is running ? This race, as with most of all the previous ones is just 2 sided. Voting 3rd party accomplishes nothing in the election other than to make you feel better in saying you voted. Voting for a 3rd party in reality is not sending a message to the "big 2" they will never know and it will not affect the outcome of the election. Not that I do not agree a 3rd party person will probably do a better job but it's a matter of hurting ourselves. If we value our democratic liberties and ANY of our firearms voting No Bamma or No Cain is just like voting for Mr. OBamma and I think it has been made very clear that the American liberties will be changing if he is given the opportunity. I am very afraid it will be the begining of the UNdoing of our country as we know it. If he is as soft spoken as he is with his views it will slowly approach us and before we know it we will be another socialist country. BUT if he becomes vocal I am sure he will not succeed and he will be voted out in 4 years or sooner. We will see. :soap:


I use to agree with you, but if you will notice, many people here have stated they are voting 3rd party for the first time, myself included. Each year more and more people are getting fed up enough to say enough is enough. Eventually, if those who really want a change, not talking Obama change here, will make a difference.


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## Space Cowboy (Apr 26, 2008)

reluctantpatriot said:


> Yes or no.
> 
> There, are we happy now? :dance:
> 
> ...


I'm hunkerin down in Serenity valley (really). I hope that's a good thing.....

SC


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## SCRich (Feb 27, 2008)

Sonshine said:


> I use to agree with you, but if you will notice, many people here have stated they are voting 3rd party for the first time, myself included. Each year more and more people are getting fed up enough to say enough is enough. Eventually, if those who really want a change, not talking Obama change here, will make a difference.


Ok now we are geting a bit off topic but I agree with your agreement :bow:
This year is different though, it's too late BUT it was proven that some 3rd parties did do a good show at the start, too many people had already drank the kool aid though. Everyone is politically enlightened now and the eyes will be on DC. 3rd party will not work this year, sorry that is where we are going to disagree but I think the seed has been planted and depending on what happens in the next 4, other political parties may have a really good chance when the time comes around again.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Voting third party usually ends up with the greater of two evils actually winning... Clinton didn't win a majority of the popular vote either time... Ross Perot got Clinton his first term...

If we had a Parliamentary form of govt., third, fourth, and twenty sixth parties would all be a viable choice, as coalitions have to form...


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

> Voting third party usually ends up with the greater of two evils actually winning...


There is not difference between the two evils: evil is still evil. One evil may be six foot tall and the lesser evil could be five foot six. But they are both evil.



.


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## outofmire (Aug 21, 2003)

I don't think there will be much in the way of riots. People aren't really ready for a change as much as they think they are. As long as they don't lose too many rights too quickly, people will quietly give up all their rights eventually, as long as they "think" they are free, have money, etc. etc. Proof of that is the popularity of some of Obama's policies. 

My biggest issue is the fact that we murder 1 million people every year in this country, and I get a sick feeling every time someone votes for their pocketbook instead. Shame on America. We will eventually have to pay for all that innocent blood. Who's preparing for that?


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

Hmm, no rioting here at all, I am quite sure. We'll all be glued to the net and tv screens, watching the drama unfold instead, lol

But should the unthinkable happen, I am pretty well screwed if there is a long term power outage. I can heat and cook, but I need water, as I am on a well. Have a generator of course, but no switch in the panel to hook it too yet. Worst case scenario, I put a couple of my greenhouse water barrels into the back of my truck, drive to neighbors and fill up. Messy, but workable.

Hmmm, I think I will top the cars fuel tank today, and I can't really think of anything else to do that I am not already fairly well ready for-I have a well stocked pantry, food on hand for the critters for months too. I should probably get more gasoline though, right?


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## Razorback21 (May 13, 2003)

I think the violence has already started. A guy in the parking lot at the office backed into the back of my truck....He had an Obama sticker on his back bumper and it almost took off my Charles Baldwin for President sticker off my bumper.lol


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2008)

A million people are expected to show up in Grant Park in Chicago tomorrow night to celebrate Obama's victory:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/03/chicago-prepares-massive-obama-victory-celebration/

So what happens in Chicago if he loses? Will they burn the city down?


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## PAcountry (Jun 29, 2007)

Went shopping today to stock up on some extras and there seem to be quite a lot of people out grocery shopping for a Monday afternoon. But then again I dont normally shop on mondays in the afternoon.

I am stocking up but I always stock up hehe

I hope nothing happens but time will only tell and I want to be perpared


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## PA_MIKE (Mar 25, 2007)

Went shopping today also. Bought 2 box's of 40SW and a box of 270. 

Bring it on


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

Looked at a poll just a few minutes ago on AOL and it shows that McCain will win. While not everyone in the US uses AOL. I would guess that it does represent a cross-section of Americans so I don't think you can just ignore the poll results.



.


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## SCRich (Feb 27, 2008)

Must be that they are the "rich people" don't you know the net is just for the rich folk? 

Honestly, I don't believe polls, they are just as biased and one sided as the people who run them. Wild example is that if you want a poll on who wears flip flops or boots and want boots to win you go to Alaska, if you want flip flops to win you go to Florida and do the poll. 

I am just plain ol' plum out from this politics stuff. I'd rather watch Opra or What Not to Wear instead of the news these days.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

It was a real bummer at the amount of time cbs >news< gave to boomboom on the 6:30 - 7 pm block this evening.
And none for Mclame.
Talk about jaded.....

I voted today and so can stay away from the "crowds" on tues.

When a village of 1500 has a crowd form its something to behold.

The place that I will NOT be hear tue is
yup . . . chicago


thank goodness.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

As far as post election violence.....

Is it just me or is an open air, monster sized rally in Chicago just about the most dangerous thing Obama could do?

There have got to be crack pots somehwere who would love to assasinate/martyr or whatever him. That happening on election night, especially if he was found to be the winner would cause mayhem like current generations have never seen.

Just a thought, of course I'm hoping that at least some of those circumstances do not come to be. Just strikes me as a very brazen thing to do, considering.............


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I'm kinda close to chicago...where I work is about 30 minutes from the city......If it looks like trouble, I'm bailing out on work.


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## Aint2nuts (Feb 18, 2008)

I would love to be WRONG. However I am preparing to be RIGHT. Three days from now I would love to come back to this board and say "Wow, overreact much?"

Tomorrow and Wednesday my kids aren't going to school. We have packed the car to bug out. Water, gas, full tank, food, clothing, cpap machine, gun and ammo, extra cash, Bug out bags, and camping gear. We may wind up in the mountains for a few days. Just taking things easy.  

I believe, no matter what the out come of the election, there will be either rioting and violence celebraiting/anger Obama/McCain's victory/defeat. Either way, there will be groups in SOME CITY, IN SOME STATE that will decide they don't like the way things are going and it is going to lead to mob violence. 


I believe my neighborhood to be particulary suceptible to the violence. It is very low income, racially diverse, and gang ridden. I am locking up the house, putting the cats on house arrest, feeding the bird extra, and hoping for the best tomorrow and Wednesday, while preparing for the worse.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2008)

*Police fear riots if Barack Obama loses US election*

Police departments say they cannot rule out disorder and are mobilising extra forces and putting SWAT teams on standby.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-riots-if-Barack-Obama-loses-US-election.html


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

Aint2nuts said:


> I am locking up the house, putting the cats on house arrest, feeding the bird extra, and hoping for the best tomorrow and Wednesday, while preparing for the worse.


You might want to consider making space for your pets, just in case things get really ugly. Rioters will have no sympathy for pets if they get into your house.


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## Aint2nuts (Feb 18, 2008)

reluctantpatriot said:


> You might want to consider making space for your pets, just in case things get really ugly. Rioters will have no sympathy for pets if they get into your house.



 

I didn't think about that. Shoot. I have two cat carriers. However, right now, we are on a 'hold and wait' pattern instead of an actual bug out. Everything will be ready to leave if things start looking nasty. First to my Mom's, in a better part of town, then to my ex-SIL in another part of the state. 

Now I am looking at things with a different eye, I might be thinking tomorrow about packing a few of the things I would hate to lose. Including the pets. I love them critters like my kids.


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

Forgot to add something else. My wife said that in the 1960s there were Vietnam War riots created by the anti-war protesters. They broke out the windows of the high school that is just a block away from our home, though be it straight line distance from us through our backyard, the backyard of the neighbor who backs us and their front yard plus the football practice field just south of the school building.

I grant that anti-war protesting in the 1960s is a bit different and a generation apart from the current election created tensions. However, it did give me pause about the level of safety I thought we had.

I am wishing for the general apathy and social unconsciousness of the college student population and the small turnout of any protesters in this city. However, if that theory fails, we are stocked up and can hold out as needed.


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

Aint2nuts said:


> I didn't think about that. Shoot. I have two cat carriers. However, right now, we are on a 'hold and wait' pattern instead of an actual bug out. Everything will be ready to leave if things start looking nasty. First to my Mom's, in a better part of town, then to my ex-SIL in another part of the state.
> 
> Now I am looking at things with a different eye, I might be thinking tomorrow about packing a few of the things I would hate to lose. Including the pets. I love them critters like my kids.


This is just me talking about how I view things. For a bugout pets are people too. My philosophy is also based on bugging out as a last resort given the local conditions. Given the mood of this city we are in, I think it would be more prudent to stay put as we would have to get through a major population center three ways of the compass and have to cross a choke point bridge to get into open country on the final compass point. That would also require us to pass through major parts of this city that would be bound up by traffic of all kinds if things broke out.

I am not trying to make you feel bad, I just want you to be aware of what might happen. After Katrina and what I saw about pets left behind, our dog goes with us everywhere in a bugout or we don't go.

And all of this is me thinking out loud so to speak and giving you theoretical feedback to consider. I am still 50/50 as to how I think the next 48 hours will go. I hope things are a tempest in a teapot in reality.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Wishing us all well tomorrow
Wishing us all that we look back on this thread and just shake our head with wonder
BUT
Stay aware of your surroundings and take care if needed.

Angie


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

FUNKY PIONEER said:


> Theres more than two canidates running, why not vote for a better one?


Somehow the big 2 get all the others banned from the ballot. In my state a write in vote is tossed in the trash, not even counted (although they may not admit it publicly). If I write in a candidate of my choosing, it voids my entire ballot so my vote for local elections would be tossed out too. 

The whole voting system is totally broken. 

That's why we are working at the local level to send Constitutional & Libertarian candidates up the ladder of one of the big 2 parties (hopefully BOTH of the big 2 parties!). That's the only way we can take our country back.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

I'm still trying to finish the left over Halloween candy around here.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Let me see a show of hands as to who would like to be working as the secret service body guards for those two "souls" for the next day or so................?????????


Have fun . . . . . . . . . . .


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

Jim-mi said:


> Let me see a show of hands as to who would like to be working as the secret service body guards for those two "souls" for the next day or so................?????????
> 
> 
> Have fun . . . . . . . . . . .


I think the guards need to drop away from both and let the people decide.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

reluctantpatriot said:


> I think the guards need to drop away from both and let the people decide.


I hope you aren't implying what it seems like you are.

You want to allow any whackos out there the chance to do harm to either candidate? We already know that there are people out there who are sick enough to want to kill them. What on earth would be the purpose of this?

The people as a whole wouldn't be deciding anything.

Kayleigh


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## ailsaek (Feb 7, 2007)

Sorry for dropping out of this thread. I went from firey to politicked out and pondering starting my own Jewish offshoot of the Plain People. I acknowledge seedspreader and others' legitimate arguments and _man_ will I be glad when this is all over (hopefully7 at 11 PM EST).


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

******* said:


> I hope you aren't implying what it seems like you are.
> 
> You want to allow any whackos out there the chance to do harm to either candidate? We already know that there are people out there who are sick enough to want to kill them. What on earth would be the purpose of this?
> 
> ...


No, don't be silly. I just think that it is not going to matter what happens. There will already be a wacko out there somewhere in the crowds that is just waiting to do something. For that matter, I would not put it past some organized group to try something either.

The reality is, there are wackos all around us to a lesser or greater extent. They may be caught, or they may succeed. It is not like I have anyway of knowing any of that. What I do know is, given the tensions and the way emotions are going, we have kindling for an emotive bonfire.

It will not matter if someone succeeds or not as the act itself will catalyze things that have been slow in moving. Perhaps I am being a bit fatalistic and just want it all to be over with and thus speak a bit morbidly.

I do not wish harm on anyone, really.


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## Bonnie L (May 11, 2002)

Isn't it wonderful that we Americans are civilized? No riots, no violence. :goodjob:

I remember how much destruction of public property there was in Portland when the Blazers won the championship, or whatever it's called. I was trapped in my car by the mobs of cheering idiots. They made me late for work. 

I didn't hear anything like that & this election was much more important than a basketball game.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

Well, where my mother lives outside of Georgia she has seen a few fistfights, and quite a few situations that easily could have escalated into fights. So I am glad to say that there hasn't been rioting, but there has been at least some small-scale violence.

I was praying that we wouldn't have rioting, and I am glad I haven't heard of any. I am continuing to pray that nothing happens that would incite anyone, because tensions are still running as high as they were before the election, if not higher, in some places.

Kayleigh


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

This is resurfacing as a potential issue. 

http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08-570.htm

The Supreme Court has issued docket 08-570 which states that Obama MUST produce his birth certificate by December 1st. The Obama/DNC attorneys tried to get an injunction against this until after the official turnover of government, but Justice Souter denied the injunction. December 1st is the deadline. Make sure those preps are ready.

(Thanks to the watchful soul out there who alerted me to this.)


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Thanks for keeping us up to date. Thank your friend, also.

Angie


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## mamajohnson (Nov 27, 2002)

Thnx Ernie, that is good to see!


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/



> The ultimate document we sought was Obamaâs birth certificate. Unlike the other documents, Hawaii birth certificates arenât public record. Only family members can request copies, so when the campaign declined to give us one, we were stalled.
> 
> On June 13, 2008, Obamaâs campaign finally released a copy, while launching a fact-check Web site of its own, Fightthesmears.com. The site is a direct response to allegations about Obama that wonât go away: Heâs Muslim. He took the oath of office on a Koran. He refuses to say the Pledge of Allegiance. PolitiFact has researched all of these accusations and none of them are true.
> 
> ...


http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html



> We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.
> 
> Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaiiâs Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.


http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html?rss=hon&psp=news



> HONOLULU -- The state's Department of Health director on Friday released a statement verifying the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama birth certificate.
> 
> The state has received multiple requests for a copy of Obama's birth certificate. State law does not allow officials to release the birth certificate of a person to someone outside of the family.





From the same party that told millions of Americans to just "get over it" when Bush "won" 2 elections under extremely questionable circumstances, they sure don't seem to be able to "get over it" themselves.

Really. Use some logic on this. He would have to have the State of Hawaii and many others covering for him. The likelihood of someone being able to pull off forging his BC and getting the State to back him up are astronomical.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

reluctantpatriot said:


> I think the guards need to drop away from both and let the people decide.




Am I reading this correctly? Angie? You let this stay after telling me to cut out the political discourse with SS? Seriously?

I stayed away from this board and all others after the election due to the outright bigotry and racism coming from people who call themselves patriots. I guess I should have stayed away longer.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

BTW, do a Google search for Philip J. Berg, the petitioner on that docket. He's a freaking nut bag.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

JGex, I don't know and don't care. I do think it's fishy that they kept trying to push this off until after the official swearing in, but I have no idea whether or not this is or isn't a conspiracy or a real issue. If it's not a real issue, he'll produce his birth certificate to the court and we'll be on our merry way. If he can't do that to their satisfaction then he'll go into the history books as the first black man ever elected president and then thrown into prison before the swearing in.

Not a one of those people who say they have seen and verified the birth certificate have been willing to do so under oath or in a sworn affidavit. Personally, I think that they may find some technicality with which to challenge his election or at least put it on hold and then that's going to cause some major upheaval. 

I intend to be watchful and wary until this is finally settled. I suggest you do the same, regardless of your political beliefs.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

You don't think this official state=ment:



> The state's Department of Health director on Friday released a statement verifying the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama birth certificate.


means anything?

My political beliefs are that I'm still waiting to see if Obama can live up to the hype. I am not a blind follower who thinks he can do no wrong.

I do, however, think this birth certificate issue is not an issue at all. His COLB has been confirmed by the state and Politifact and Factcheck.org are non-partisan fact finding agencies that I have not found to be wrong in the past. I'm using LOGIC to come to my opinion on this.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Geesh, I just reported this. Why are you implying that I'm NOT using logic?

As we saw in the Bush administration, MANY government officials are willing to say one thing to the public or the press but then back off or disappear completely when it comes time to swear an affidavit. 

Regardless of what YOU think, Factcheck.org thinks, or the governor of Hawaii thinks ... the SUPREME COURT has decided that they ought to look for themselves. I think it will be a good thing for them to do so. These waters are pretty murky and the DNC didn't do anything but stir the mud at the bottom. 

I'm anti-government all the way. They are (each and every one of them) corrupt. I wouldn't believe them if they told me the sky was blue. I distrust them from the President of the United States to the lady who (sporadically) delivers my mail.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

I thought that Keyes also put forth a suit about this issue, if Berg's credibility is the sticking point.

Kayleigh


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

awwwww, all the mail men (and one mail lady) I've known are great folks. Except for that one biddy "Perdita" at the PO(I always think of Cruella DeVille when I see her). 

And the one mail lady friend of mine she would take time to stop and chat at the few old homebound folks on her route, and check on them in the winter and take them meals. SO there


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I'm seeing this as a Supreme Court issue. It's only political as it does pertain to a President Elect that is not producing to the Supreme Court what they've asked to see.

As it is a serious inquiry, since they are letting it stand. And since it's relevant to this up coming swearing in - 
Yeah, it's not doing a McCain/Obama issue, but it's a Supreme Court/Obama issue.

That's the difference to me

Angie


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

JGex said:


> The likelihood of someone being able to pull off forging his BC and getting the State to back him up are astronomical.


And, if you would have told me a few years ago, that someone that had no executive experience, had used illegal drugs, and on and on, would be president... I would've said the odds were astronomical.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

This isn't about Bush. (at least he's was a Governor of a large state first)
It isn't about McCain
It isn't about Palin.

Let's just see what happens with the Supreme Court.
Okay

Angie


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

AngieM2 said:


> This isn't about Bush. (at least he's was a Governor of a large state first)
> It isn't about McCain
> It isn't about Palin.
> 
> ...


I'll predict what's going to happen: They are going to laugh it right out of the Court.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

And just exactly where did everyone get the idea that being a Governor is a more experienced or higher job position than Senator? Governors are big fish in little ponds. Senators are big fish in big ponds. They deal with issues that effect the entire country, not just one state.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

The remark you erased was absolutely relevant, Angie. It was about Berg, not about Bush. But thanks for being even handed on that moderation.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

What about the fact that Keyes has also filed about the same issue? Is his credibility in question also?

Kayleigh


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

******* said:


> What about the fact that Keyes has also filed about the same issue? Is his credibility in question also?
> 
> Kayleigh


Yeah, I can't think of a reason why a former opponent of Obama would file the suit. 

[/sarcasm]


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

One thing I have noticed about this ... anytime you bring up anything even remotely related to Obama, unless you're wearing an Obama t-shirt, waving an Obama flag, sporting an Obama bumper sticker on your Prius, and with a new "I love Obama" tattoo on your arm then you're going to be attacked. Without mercy. 

You want to know why I think there will be blood and violence in the streets if Obama gets thrown out by SCOTUS? Even in this thread, when all I do is mention that the Supreme Court is going to hear the case, the attacks start. It will only take one small spark to turn this verbal war into a shooting one.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

http://www.sonorannews.com/archives/2008/081029/FrntPgJudge.html



> Judge dismisses Obama lawsuit over lack of standing
> By Linda Bentley | October 29, 2008
> 
> Hawaii Governor Linda Lingle seals Obamaâs birth records
> ...


This has already been thrown out of at least one Court Berg brought this before and it has been thrown out of several courts in several other states. Berg is entitled to his appeal, but this is political sour grapes at its worst.

Oh, and the REPUBLICAN Gov. of Hawaii certified his BC several weeks ago.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

And if you're right, the Supreme Court will throw it out. If not, then this is something to watch and see what happens next.

Angie


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Ernie said:


> One thing I have noticed about this ... anytime you bring up anything even remotely related to Obama, unless you're wearing an Obama t-shirt, waving an Obama flag, sporting an Obama bumper sticker on your Prius, and with a new "I love Obama" tattoo on your arm then you're going to be attacked. Without mercy.
> 
> You want to know why I think there will be blood and violence in the streets if Obama gets thrown out by SCOTUS? Even in this thread, when all I do is mention that the Supreme Court is going to hear the case, the attacks start. It will only take one small spark to turn this verbal war into a shooting one.


I'm not attacking you, Ernie. I'm a little disappointed that it looks like you believe this stuff when I know how smart you are and that you could do the same Google searches I just did and see that the 2 news agencies associated with reporting the "story" is World Net Daily and Pravda. Almost everything else is on blogs.

They had 2 years, longer actually if you count Keyes in this, to establish grounds to halt Obama from being on the ballot. Every single attempt has failed. Does that not speak volumes? It does for me... if there was ANYthing to this, surely it would have been outed by now.

Again, I am NOT an ardent Obama fan. I didn't vote for him in the primaries and I am waiting like many others to see if he will be able to live up to his hype. But I usually know BS when I see it, and this has all of the earmarks.


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## Seagrape (Aug 4, 2008)

JGex said:


> Oh, and the REPUBLICAN Gov. of Hawaii certified his BC several weeks ago.


She certified that it existed, not what it said. It is unknown whether Obama has ever presented his long-form birth certificate to anyone and, to my knowledge, no one has claimed to have seen it or examined it. There are several legal actions pending in several courts around the country to force Obama to produce his long-form birth certificate. His failure to do so plus his grandmother saying she attended his birth in Kenya is what has fueled all the speculation. The first lawsuit was filed last summer before the Democrat Convention, so the brouhaha over his birth certificate has been going on for awhile. Another investigator has filed FOIA requests for several documents, including State Department travel and passport records for Obama's mother around the time of his birth. If such records still exist and are released, what they show will either settle the matter or pile more fuel on the fire. 

I hope hope this issue can be settled to everyone's satisfaction _before_ the inauguration. If it is proven after the inauguration that he was, indeed, born in Kenya I shudder to even contemplate the consequences to the country.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

The Supreme Court publishes lists of their dockets, and I saw it there after a friend sent me an email about it. Blogs are crap and newspapers are only worth wrapping around dead fish these days. I don't believe a word of it.

I do believe what the Supreme Court has said, and that's the fact that they are demanding to see the birth certificate. I also know that the DNC has thwarted attempts to see this in court for over 2 years, as you've pointed out. This little issue would have never bubbled up on my conspiracy radar if not the fact that they have _refused_ for so long to show it. An issue this potentially serious needs to be dealt with, and their obfuscation and legal games have done nothing but undermine my confidence that they can really produce the document. I have to show a birth certificate or give an SSN every time I get a fishing license, go to the DMV to pay for my tags, or go to the doctor's office to have a wart removed. I find it hard to believe that you can get as far towards the presidency as Obama has and NOT show it. 

I also believe that there's enough technicalities and legal restrictions on what constitutes true citizenship to probably have ME declared an illegal alien, even though I was born in Dallas. Some nurse forgets to sign the right form, some doctor checks the wrong box, or some anonymous clerk in the great bureaucratic machine forgets to file form 19-84b by the deadline and BAM, you're not eligible. A number of years ago I had to find my military discharge papers. I called the VA and they'd never heard of me. Wasn't in their files. I called the military and they had no record of my service. I provided dates, names, locations ... nope. Not a clue. Who are you again? Took them three months to find the proper paperwork, and half of it was wrong then. 

Just any one of those things could end up putting Biden in the president's chair and Obama out on the curb. I've got lentils (the miracle bean!), pineapple, and ammunition put away for just such an occasion.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Oh, and get this ... one of my friend's birth certificate states that he was BORN DEAD. Yes, according to his birth certificate he is not among the living. He is deceased. He is an ex-person. He laughs and says, "Ironic that the government who didn't know I was alive has happily taken my income taxes over all these years." 

He's been trying for about a year now to get his birth certificate updated to show that he is, in fact, alive. The whole thing never came up until he tried to get his passport renewed. They didn't catch it when they issued it the first time, but upon renewal a keen-eyed bureaucrat finally noticed that they were reissuing a passport to a man whose birth certificate said he was born dead in '68.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

Ernie said:


> This little issue would have never bubbled up on my conspiracy radar if not the fact that they have _refused_ for so long to show it. An issue this potentially serious needs to be dealt with, and their obfuscation and legal games have done nothing but undermine my confidence that they can really produce the document.


This is the issue for me too.

I filed it under "email spam" until they just never did anything about it. Putting something on a website doesn't compare to handing over the documents to a court one time and putting an end to the issue.

Kayleigh


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## Bonnie L (May 11, 2002)

Seagrape said:


> It is unknown whether Obama has ever presented his long-form birth certificate to anyone and, to my knowledge, no one has claimed to have seen it or examined it.


What's a long-form birth certificate? I saw a copy of Obama's birth certificate on the Internet somewhere & it sure looked like the real thing. It was very similar to the birth certificates of my children. We have only the 1 for each of them.


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## Seagrape (Aug 4, 2008)

Bonnie L said:


> What's a long-form birth certificate? I saw a copy of Obama's birth certificate on the Internet somewhere & it sure looked like the real thing. It was very similar to the birth certificates of my children. We have only the 1 for each of them.


Page 2 at this link gives an example of a real long-form Hawaii birth certificate placed next to what Obama has provided on his website. The person's true information has been blacked out. This one looks like my own and my children's bc's.

ETA: For anyone wanting to follow what is happening regarding the various legal efforts here is one site that seems to have a lot of information on it.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Seagrape said:


> Page 2 at this link gives an example of a real long-form Hawaii birth certificate placed next to what Obama has provided on his website. The person's true information has been blacked out. This one looks like my own and my children's bc's.


From a site that is forming a "resistance" - uh huh, no agenda there.

Hawaii has already said the BC being questioned is indeed like the certs they issued.

Try reading this whole page:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

There are pictures of the certified copy and the raised seal. The original is filed in Hawaii.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

> The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. *The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department.* We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.


Wow. Someone actually took the time to check some facts.


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## Seagrape (Aug 4, 2008)

JGex said:


> From a site that is forming a "resistance" - uh huh, no agenda there.
> 
> Hawaii has already said the BC being questioned is indeed like the certs they issued.
> 
> ...


Oh, good grief. She asked what did a "long-form birth certificate" look like. That's the only example I could find. Jeeeez.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Wow. Someone actually took the time to check some facts.


And those "facts" are just another DODGE to keep from admitting the REAL FACT that the ORIGINAL BC LONG FORM has never been produced

And Factcheck.org is an offshoot of the Annenberg Foundation, to whom Obama and Ayers have close ties ....But youre not interested in THAT fact are you?


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Seagrape said:


> Oh, good grief. She asked what did a "long-form birth certificate" look like. That's the only example I could find. Jeeeez.


Not to split hairs, but you said:



> It is unknown whether Obama has ever presented his long-form birth certificate to anyone and, to my knowledge, no one has claimed to have seen it or examined it.


My post answered *why* no one has seen it. Everyone has pulled as much tin foil out as possible on this, and by "everyone" I mean all of the conspiracy blogs that are perpetuating this when there are reasonable and logical explanations that have been given. Just it's not what the theorists want to hear, so the explanations and rebuttals to the accusations are simply being ignored.



> âIf you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.â
> 
> Joseph Goebbels


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> And those "facts" are just another DODGE to keep from admitting the REAL FACT that the ORIGINAL BC LONG FORM has never been produced
> 
> And Factcheck.org is an offshoot of the Annenberg Foundation, to whom Obama and Ayers have close ties ....But youre not interested in THAT fact are you?


The long form BC is on file in Hawaii. It is not an option when requesting a copy.

And Annenberg is a hardcore Republican that endorsed McCain. So?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> My post answered *why* no one has seen it.


No, it didnt. It merely tried to explain it away.

This all could have been settled MONTHS ago if Obama would release the form


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

http://blog.castyourvote2008.com/20...nnenberg-foundation-endorsed-john-mccain.aspx



> On Wednesday morning, John McCain's campaign released a list of 100 former ambassadors endorsing the GOP presidential nominee.
> 
> *Second on the list, though her name is misspelled, is Leonore Annenberg, currently the president and chairman of the Annenberg Foundation and widow of ambassador and philanthropist Walter Annenberg. Ms. Annenberg was herself the "chief of protocol" at the State Department under President Reagan.*
> 
> If the last name sounds familiar, it's because it also graces the name of the Chicago education board where Barack Obama and William Ayers sat in the room six times together.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

seems to me if Hawaii only sends that shorter certified copy when one is requested, I'd think if it's important enough to the Supreme Court they could supena the original from Hawaii. That would settle it for them.

I think that the Supreme Court keeping the date is much of what gives the issue the importance that will not allow all the lower courts opinions cited by JGex to stand. 

Now - when it gets to the Supreme Court hearing - it may be seen and basically dismissed, or there may be more to it and then all heck could let loose if a group or groups of disappointed folks get all hot and bothered.

But no matter what is posted here, what's gone on before - until that Supreme Court hearing is dismissed or carried out - - this is an issue that can cause a lot of distress to many people, and the outcome could be iffy.

Angie

Angie


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

You're losing the very argument YOU started, Jgex. Particularly when you invoked Goebbels. That statement is as offensive as your tag line comparing Jesus to Obama. I think it's fairly clear at this point where you stand. 

Look, this is not an issue to be decided in an internet forum. For every website saying one thing there is another website saying the opposite and the two sides just provide links back and forth that the other one discredits due to some affiliation or content. 

What you absolutely cannot dispute is that this is not "tinfoil hat" grade conspiracy. This matter has made it all the way to the top of the legal system, using legal means and through legal ends, whether you find them to be credible or not. The Supreme Court has demanded to see the documentation. If he can produce proof of citizenship then it's a done deal. If not, then he's a fraud perpetrated on the American public and we have a situation on our hands.

Don't invoke Goebbels again. Save that for where it's actually needed, such as the real fascists in our government out there, not someone in an internet forum.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

What is so hard about put up or shut-up? If the SC is looking into this,well what happened?
Did they run out of other cases to look at? Are they bored?
If he cant prove he's elligable will we wind up with a Hillary/Biden ticket?
If he gets assasinated over some such issue, will we wind up in a race war the likes of which weve never seen, & will bush declare marshall law & refuse to leave office?
I wish he would just put the rumors to rest


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

The short form shown on the Internet does not show what hospital BO was born in or the doctors name. The long form will show both. 



> His COLB has been confirmed by the state and Politifact and Factcheck.org are non-partisan fact finding agencies that I have not found to be wrong in the past.


The COLB does not mean that BO was born in Hawaii. It only means that his birth was registered with the state. He could have been born in Kenya, flown to Hawaii, and then his birth registered, which would explain why his grandma was at his birth and why it is a COLB instead of a BC.




> I thought that Keyes also put forth a suit about this issue, if Berg's credibility is the sticking point.


Keyes filed suit in California.




> I'll predict what's going to happen: They are going to laugh it right out of the Court.


If the SCOTUS thought it was a laughing matter they would not have gotten involved. Of course, if they determine that BO cannot hold office, they (TPTB) might cover it up to prevent mass rioting.




> And just exactly where did everyone get the idea that being a Governor is a more experienced or higher job position than Senator?


Governors actually have to manage their state, senators just take money, spend money, and pass laws that undermine the Constitution.




> Oh, and the REPUBLICAN Gov. of Hawaii certified his BC several weeks ago.


Nope, it was the person in charge of vital statistics who said she saw the birth certificate and that it was legit. She did not say if it was a Birth Certificate or a Certificate of Live Birth. Big difference between the two.




> They had 2 years, longer actually if you count Keyes in this, to establish grounds to halt Obama from being on the ballot.


How do you figure they had two years? I only found out a few months ago myself. Why would someone else have known about this two years ago? You come across like there was a statute of limitations when it comes to BO proving his citizenship.


.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Where is my dead horse? :bdh:

Even if this whole birth certificate deal is real my prediction is it will be swept under the rug. If by some very extremely small chance that this is more than just some sore losers and too much tin foil and the supreme court rules in a way other than what I expect, it won't be pretty.


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

If it is so easy for Obama to request the release of his records to the Supreme Court, would that not be the fastest, easiest and most expedient way to resolve this matter?

I mean, why would this matter even go to court? If it were me, I would just present the legal documents that I need to prove something, if they were available, and put an issue to rest.

Now, to respond to my long past comment about the SS just dropping back and letting the public decide what they wish to do with the candidates, that was a tongue in cheek comment leading up to election night. I was full well tired of all the back and forth of the news so I figured it would be just as well for the people to just do what they wanted, one way or the other, and either let the political process work or be a mob, whichever they wanted. So far it seems we want to let the political process work peacefully.

If something terrible is to pass to Obama it will come to pass. If something terrible is not to pass to Obama it will not come to pass. I have zero control over what happens either way. I for one am just tired of the Liberal sniping about everything. The Conservatives are just slightly less annoying, but the Liberals seem to be gloating just a bit too much right now and putting down what little is left of my ability to tolerate them.

Edited to add: We ought to let the Supreme Court decide this matter and just let the facts come out. Most of the time I agree with the judgments of the court to do what is right.


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## Seagrape (Aug 4, 2008)

JGex said:


> Not to split hairs,


No, it's not "splitting hairs"....it's more like tangling them. 

I responded to this question from BonnieL:

"What's a long-form birth certificate? I saw a copy of Obama's birth certificate on the Internet somewhere & it sure looked like the real thing. It was very similar to the birth certificates of my children. We have only the 1 for each of them." 

with a link to a site where she could see a sample of a long-form Hawaii birth certificate along side the birth certificate Obama has released to the public. Nothing more, nothing less.

You responded with this: 

"From a site that is forming a "resistance" - uh huh, no agenda there."

Now you bring in something I said in a previous post, which wasn't on the table before. That's "tangling" hairs, not "splitting" them. 

As for factcheck, they have a conflict of interest in that they have associations with the Annenberg Foundation, which is somehow associated with ACORN, which received beaucoup buks from the Obama campaign--all of which casts a bit of doubt on their impartiality in claiming the birth certificate to be genuine. (The web is so tangled, it's hard to follow.) 

I, personally, have no agenda other than getting to the truth about Obama's birthplace and I feel there are sufficient grounds for the public to demand definitive proof of where, exactly, he was born. If it really was Hawaii, so be it. That settles it. If it was Kenya, as his grandmother has said, then Obama is perpetrating a fraud upon the American people and should be called to account for it.


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

If BO does not provide proof of citizenship then the Constitution is dead.


.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

uyk7 said:


> If BO does not provide proof of citizenship then the Constitution is dead.


Not really. If he cannot provide proof of citizenship and still becomes President, _then_ it is dead.

Of course (pull out those tinfoil hats!) if he doesn't prove citizenship, then Bush will have a good reason to not leave office, and then . . . . . 

I'll finish the scenario after I stop laughing!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

That's an idea that keeps me awake at night. What if he isn't a valid candidate? Does it automatically default to McCain? That disenfranchises a lot of people. Does Biden get it? That also disenfranchises a lot of people. Does the Bush administration stay in power? For how long?

I don't know that this situation has ever been faced before. I have no historical precedent to draw upon.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Flip a coin, one of those new Amero's.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Worse yet, what if it defaults to Pelosi. She is speaker of the house, 3rd in line on the power scale. If the current president cant serve,cause his term is up, & no viable candidate was elected, would it fall to the speaker of the house?


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

Ernie said:


> That's an idea that keeps me awake at night. What if he isn't a valid candidate? Does it automatically default to McCain? That disenfranchises a lot of people. Does Biden get it? That also disenfranchises a lot of people. Does the Bush administration stay in power? For how long?
> 
> I don't know that this situation has ever been faced before. I have no historical precedent to draw upon.


I have those questions, too . . . 

If the SCOTUS rules that he is not a valid candidate _before_ the Electoral College votes, can the electors vote for someone else? In many states there are laws that state no, they can't. They will _have to_ cast for Obama (I don't know how many votes we're talking about, here.) For the other states, who had the majority of votes go to Obama but can pick someone else, who will they vote for? Biden? I don't know.

If the SCOTUS rules that he is not a valid candidate _after_ the Electoral College votes, will that invalidate their votes? Or will Biden become POTUS, as he would if anything were to happen to Obama?

But if they have not been sworn in yet, who will get it then? I mean, if Bush/Cheney are on their way out (and they will be), but Obama/Biden have not been sworn in yet, then the Speaker of the House of Representatives would be next . . . .

But the House is in recess right now, so while Nancy Pelosi _was_ the last Speaker, and _will be_ the next Speaker, technically, right now, she's not . . . . That leads to the President pro tempore of the Senate, Robert Byrd . . . . Thanks, but no thanks!

Either way, this is keeping me up, too!


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

Well, I was under the impression that if anything happens before the electoral college casts their votes, they would decide who would fill the presidency. How and who they would decide I don't know.

I honestly hope that all of his paperwork is legit, and that he will just present it to the courts and get it over with. I don't see what he has to gain by ignoring the accusations at this point. He has already won the election, and clearing this up would be more beneficial for our country than him pretending this doesn't exist would be for his own "image".

Kayleigh

And Narshalla typed a better synopsis than I did.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Im not really trying to be crazy with this, although I do like a couple of tin-foil websites.
Yet what if their isnt a declared winner in the elections? If OB is disqualifed & no one voted 
the others in to office as president,how can the Electoral College qualify any one for president?
Would't it fall to the speaker of the house to step up & be acting president under the circumstances at that point?
Just weird thoughts that roll through my mind sometimes


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Ernie said:


> The Supreme Court publishes lists of their dockets, and I saw it there after a friend sent me an email about it. Blogs are crap and newspapers are only worth wrapping around dead fish these days. I don't believe a word of it.
> 
> I do believe what the Supreme Court has said........


Like anyone can really believe the goobermint! 

Nothing like people schilling for their overlords!


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## HilltopDaisy (Feb 26, 2003)

stranger said:


> who said he was nuts? a psychiatrist, if he was so nuts, what is he doing on the streets? there are 2 sides to every story, lets get his.


Oh boy, as a person who has worked in psych for many years, let me tell you, there are more folks than you can imagine, walking the streets, who should be locked up FOREVER. They walk up to strangers in the pharmacy, or the pizza place, punch them in the face, spend 6 months in the hospital, and are discharged. I see this all the time. If a facility needs a bed, a whacko with no insurance will be released to make room for a better paying customer.


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## QuiltingLady2 (Jan 3, 2007)

I'm still waiting for news of impending violence and/or doom......


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

Trinity3 said:


> I'm not really trying to be crazy with this, although I do like a couple of tin-foil websites.
> Yet what if their isn't a declared winner in the elections? If OB is disqualified & no one voted the others in to office as president, how can the Electoral College qualify any one for president?
> Wouldn't it fall to the speaker of the house to step up & be acting president under the circumstances at that point?
> Just weird thoughts that roll through my mind sometimes


Though many like to think that a vote for the president means something, in reality, our votes don't. We aren't really voting for a Presidential candidate, we're voting for members of the electoral college, who will then vote for the President.

Also, right now, everyone _assumes_ that the electoral votes will go the way they have been predicted by the popular elections in the individual states. This is, normally, a safe assumption, because every other election cycle in living memory, the voters in the electoral college have voted the way the people of each state have told them to (no stray votes for Buchanan here!)

Some states have laws that make it mandatory for the members of the electoral college to vote the same way as the popular vote of that state. Some do not. Of those that do not, the electors of the electoral college can vote for whomever they please, provided that the person is eligible to serve as the POTUS under the guidelines of the Constitution. For instance, they couldn't vote for _me_ because I am not old enough, IAW the Constitution, but they could vote for my mom, who meets all the requirements. They won't, but they _could._ Yes, you are correct, if anyone voted for my mom, they really did throw away their vote, but if they wanted to, they _could._

If the SCOTUS rules that Obama is eligible, that's the end of it. If they rule that Obama is not eligible, let the games begin.

_All_ of the electoral votes that are going to McCain will be cast for him, regardless.

Some of the electoral votes that are going to Obama will _have to be_ cast for him, regardless, because individual state law says so. The others, though, are the ones that will make everything I can think of look tame. Would the others still vote for Obama? Would they vote for Biden? Hillary?

Let's say, though, that the SCOTUS rules that Obama is not eligible. The voters of the electoral college vote the way their states' populations have told them to vote. What happens then? Obama is not eligible, but has received the most electoral votes. Do those votes, then, not count? That would make McCain the winner, wouldn't it? Or would it?

Would Biden take office? _Could_ he? After all, the VP takes office when the POTUS is incapacitated, but if Obama was not eligible to be POTUS, then how can Biden be eligible for VP?

This is a wonderful can of worms, from a tinfoil hat point of view!


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

> This is a wonderful can of worms, from a tinfoil hat point of view!


All because someone wouldn't release their birth certificate.

Everyone who likes BO need to realize that this issue, right now, isn't about BO. It is about who has a right to know if a person is eligible to POTUS. The judge in the original Berg case stated that voters don't have a right to know; that it was up to Congress to determine eligiblity. One senator I contacted stated that he couldn't get involved since he was a senator. All I can say is, I bet Russia wishes they had known about this type of situation, they could have had one of their own in power.


.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

this is one heck of a Civics lesson.

Angie


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I'd rather be reading about it in a history book as opposed to living it.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

Ernie said:


> I'd rather be reading about it in a history book as opposed to living it.


I can't disagree with you. Don't want to, either!


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## FUNKY PIONEER (Sep 20, 2005)

QuiltingLady2 said:


> I'm still waiting for news of impending violence and/or doom......


Did you miss all the attacks that are going on twards Christians who voted for prop 8 in Cali and prop 102 in AZ? Crosses burning, bibles burning, etc. Sound quite violent.


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2008)

FUNKY PIONEER said:


> Did you miss all the attacks that are going on twards Christians who voted for prop 8 in Cali and prop 102 in AZ? Crosses burning, bibles burning, etc. Sound quite violent.


It's getting really ugly. It's spreading into other states, too.


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## SCRich (Feb 27, 2008)

Wonder why the media have not been reporting on this ????
But I did find out this morning that he ordered a cornned beef sandwich at Manny's delli yesterday! Real usefull information. :bash:

Listen it looks cut and dry to me and it should have NEVER gotten this far. If I were to refuse to present my birth certificate at DMV I would be refused to apply for a license. He refused to present it he should have been refused to run PERIOD DONE!

Now he still refuses to produce it, he has something to hide plain and simple what is so difficult about it. Why does this man have a problem following our rules ? If he has a problem following OUR rules why in the he11 would we even want him to represent us, a birth certificate right now, what else tomorow ? Why is he above the rules ? 

It's not a matter of refusing him to take office it's a matter now of fraud, criminal intent and the hundreds of millions of dollars he stole from the tax payers to run his campaign along with all the money he stole from the goverment for assistance and all these big money companies that are sitting there and expecting a return on their investment in a fraud! AND the countless other millions of dollars it will cost us to get out of this mess which drags on and on. They just need to demand it be produced and shown to the court in the next 72 hours and be DONE WITH IT!


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2008)

SCRich said:


> Wonder why the media have not been reporting on this ????


It's been all over the news.

It's getting less coverage than Wall Street and the banks and the Big Three. But it's there.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

This whole birth certificate thing is pretty much like y2k. Does anyone really think that (even if he wasn't legally born here) the president elect wouldn't be able to present the best manufactured documents in the world?

As far as Obama goes, he has nothing to gain by submitting anything to anyone until it actually comes to the forefront of the American mind... and it won't happen with the economy the way it is, the very pro Obama media, etc.


Funny sidenote, I was watching the news this morning (we get NBC and ABC here at the house) and NBC was advertising the "Yes We Can" DVD special. too funny... even in Clinton's tenure the media wasn't this far behind him.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

QuiltingLady2 said:


> I'm still waiting for news of impending violence and/or doom......


soooo, the Israel/Iran thing, the unemployment snowball, the articles popping up about "depression lite"(trying to break it to us gently), Russia getting testy, unending bailouts(there will be a point when the turnip will have no more blood) aren't enough for ya?

(and I didn't even say anything about "him", who believes in a fluid "living" constitution--that's worse than lighting it with a match and starting over)


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

so far the racial violence has been restricted to children chanting kill Obama and some morons having a dead poll on when he will be assassinated . seems those who were predicting violence were the most likely to insight it .


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

PyroDon said:


> so far the racial violence has been restricted to children chanting kill Obama and some morons having a dead poll on when he will be assassinated . seems those who were predicting violence were the most likely to insight it .


There's been racial stuff from both sides, don't be obtuse, besides which those who were predicting racial violence said (and are still saying) that it would be a result of Obama LOSING the election... not winning.

Once he won they adjusted it to the fantasy (imo) of him not being eligible for the office and the supreme court ruling it as so.


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2008)

seedspreader said:


> those who were predicting racial violence said (and are still saying) that it would be a result of Obama LOSING the election... not winning.


That's what had me worried.

There were multiple huge crowds of Obama supporters (all races) gathered all over the country on election night, even before the votes were counted. These were some very psyched up people. If Obama had lost, I shudder to think what may have happened.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

seedspreader said:


> There's been racial stuff from both sides, don't be obtuse, besides which those who were predicting racial violence said (and are still saying) that it would be a result of Obama LOSING the election... not winning.
> 
> Once he won they adjusted it to the fantasy (imo) of him not being eligible for the office and the supreme court ruling it as so.


actually if you go through the posts you'll notice that some stated it would happen whether he won or lost . so far that is been false .

it is my opinion that those predicting such things do so because either they see their own nature or actually hope such things will happen to vindicate their view of others ignorance . 
I tend to be less cynical and feel that most people are good , even those I disagree with


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2008)

PyroDon said:


> actually if you go through the posts you'll notice that some stated it would happen whether he won or lost . so far that is been false.


I was afraid it *might* happen if he won, but I was 10 times more afraid it *would* happen if he lost.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

PyroDon said:


> actually if you go through the posts you'll notice that some stated it would happen whether he won or lost . so far that is been false .
> 
> it is my opinion that those predicting such things do so because either they see their own nature or actually hope such things will happen to vindicate their view of others ignorance .
> I tend to be less cynical and feel that most people are good , even those I disagree with


So I am sort of confused, are you saying that those who predicted those things really AREN'T good or are you just being cynical?

Or are you seeing your own nature in those you are attempting to subtly say that THEY would revolt if their person lost.

Of course, their person did lose and they didn't revolt.

The most I got out of your post is that all those other people are bad, but your good because you see the best in people. Feel free to correct me.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Color me cynical. 

I think it's likely there would have been violence had he immediately lost. If the Supreme Court finds some reason to kick him out (valid or otherwise) then I suspect the violence will be worse. And it will not be divided solely across racial lines. 

As for you, Seedspreader (evil laugh), have you followed much of Obama's history, being an Illinois resident like me? The man has never done anything by himself. All through his career there has been some mentor or mastermind behind the scenes pulling the strings. They got him into local government, they got him into the senate, and I suspect they got him into the presidency. I'm inclined to believe that those same sinister forces could have manufactured a citizenship if there were not one already. However, I cannot for the life of me imagine WHY they wouldn't have produced one to any of the courts or officials who have been asking for it before now. If you have a fake driver's license, you don't wait until the police officer wrestles you to the ground and goes through your wallet. You show it to him right away and smile. 

What's the purpose of creating this issue? And trust me, Obama and his forces created this issue. It's not something cooked up by the Republican party. He has refused to show a proper proof of citizenship. That was entirely in his control to do all along the way.

Let's play the tinfoil game for a moment ...

Let's say an organization or group of men wished to seize control of the country. They can't easily do it from where we stand. We need at least two or three more generations worth of chewing at public education and the Constitution before they can implement a true fascist agenda. But let's say they've lost patience and wish to speed this along.

First, you bring up a demagogue from the bottom. While he's in the senate, you give him easy and very popular legislation to sponsor. You have him vote 'present' on anything that even smells like controversy. You keep him waiting in the wings until the most unpopular president ever shows up, and then you spring him on the public to talk about hope and change. Once he becomes the president-elect, only THEN do you pull the rug out from under your man and the public by letting the whole thing fall apart in court ... due to a technicality that you were aware of the whole time. Poor Obama may even think that he deserves what he's gotten and that all the admiration is really about him. He may even be deluded into thinking that those sinister masterminds are _actually on his side_ and that they're going to fix the problem without a fuss. Only they don't. They let the country erupt in violence and chaos and then after a suitable timeframe they put forward someone else, someone with a firm hand who will "take charge" and "stop the violence". Americans would be willing to accept that after a few months of disruptions. 

Presto. That's how you take over a country.


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## Henry (Mar 1, 2006)

I think Bush fills your argument even better. At least Obama distinguished himself in earlier life. I am thinking first Black to be editor of Harvard Law review and did he not oppose the war from the first? Bush on the other hand was spoon feed everything in life from "Guard duty" to chosen to be president by big oil.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Bush wouldn't have fit the theory exactly BECAUSE he's never done anything. Aside from being a president's son he's a nobody. How he got elected I have no idea. However, it's plausible that the capitalist forces that put Bush in office are different and diametrically opposed to the fascist forces who are pushing Obama forward. In the Illuminati-esque conspiracy theory, there's no rule that says there's one unifying theme that the shadow government follows. It could be (and probably would be) just as fractured and segmented as the real government.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

seedspreader said:


> So I am sort of confused, are you saying that those who predicted those things really AREN'T good or are you just being cynical?
> 
> Or are you seeing your own nature in those you are attempting to subtly say that THEY would revolt if their person lost.
> 
> ...


Obviously Im not good Im human as such Im as flawed as anyone .
some seem to have been hoping for violence and appear disappointed that it didnt happen.
Is it possible that if the person elected by the people is kept from taking office there may be a revolt ? certainly as well there should be . 
Unless of course you support a dictatorship or soviet style republic .
I doubt that race would have much to do with it . Despite claims to the contrary race had very little to do with how most voted .
I doubt seriously that a mans skin color weighed into your choice of who to vote for , if it did I am very sorry and have mis interpreted the calibure of person I believed you to be .


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## Seagrape (Aug 4, 2008)

Ernie said:


> Presto. That's how you take over a country.


I've actually entertained this notion, Ernie.

So......if something like this plays out, we can say you said it first.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Just remember that I had nothing to do with it and I'm on your side.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

PyroDon said:


> Obviously Im not good Im human as such Im as flawed as anyone .
> some seem to have been hoping for violence and appear disappointed that it didnt happen.
> Is it possible that if the person elected by the people is kept from taking office there may be a revolt ? certainly as well there should be .
> Unless of course you support a dictatorship or soviet style republic .
> ...


Why do you always have to make things personal and try to attack SOMEONE in your posts?

It really gets old posts like:

"I don't think (make absurd statement), but IF IT DID (make indirect subtle stab at person's character). 

The formula is well known and it may be ok for GC, but this isn't GC. Your past two posts now have followed this same formula. 

I simply stated that what you said OTHER'S said, isn't really what they said, then you suggested that their motives for saying such were really because of poor character. 

Since the majority of people on HT know where I stand and what I value, they know that I would never vote for Obama simply because I will never vote for someone who is pro-abortion... so subtle character attacks are useless.


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

> However, I cannot for the life of me imagine WHY they wouldn't have produced one to any of the courts or officials who have been asking for it before now.


Well, the longer he takes to produce the documents the closer to the WH he is and the chances of someone being able to verify the documents goes down. I still think that IF the documents are produced AND they are fake, or prove him ineligible, there WILL be a cover up of the facts. We will never know the truth. The truth would be made available 100 years down the road when everyone living today will be dead/dying.

.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

How would you cover it up when it's being looked at by the Supreme Court? They're pretty split as conservative/liberal, Republican/Democrat AND they're elected for life. They don't go anywhere else, they have no career path. They don't really have much to profit from covering it up. Now if suddenly a few (or even one) Supreme Court justices end up DEAD then you've got a potential cover up.

To a certain degree you're correct though ... the speculation of cover up will now exist for a hundred years.

Consider the Woodrow Wilson issue. When he had a stroke, he took to his bed and his wife wouldn't let anyone see him. There's a whole series of legislation that was signed into law, presumably by him, but the conspiracy theory side believes that this legislation may have been signed by his wife with NO INPUT from the duly elected official. Essentially you had the First Lady running the country for a period of time. That conspiracy theory is almost a 100 years old and has never been put away properly.


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2008)

uyk7 said:


> I still think that IF the documents are produced AND they are fake, or prove him ineligible, there WILL be a cover up of the facts.


I think that too.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

seedspreader said:


> Why do you always have to make things personal and try to attack SOMEONE in your posts?
> 
> Since the majority of people on HT know where I stand and what I value, they know that I would never vote for Obama simply because I will never vote for someone who is pro-abortion... so subtle character attacks are useless.


what character attack ,.I think you see what you wish to see .
My post above was no more an attack on you than your was on me .
You assume that because we may disagree That I would think less of you.
nothing is further from the truth. 

Despite the obviously low opinion you have of me , I have never considered you to be anything other than a decent person.

I fully admit the above statement is my own personal impression based on the responses you have made in the past and may not reflect your actual opinion.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

See that's what you're missing, this isn't about me. This is about statements like the bold ones below. 






PyroDon said:


> Obviously Im not good Im human as such Im as flawed as anyone .
> some seem to have been hoping for violence and appear disappointed that it didnt happen.
> Is it possible that if the person elected by the people is kept from taking office there may be a revolt ? certainly as well there should be .
> Unless of course you support a dictatorship or soviet style republic .
> ...





PyroDon said:


> actually if you go through the posts you'll notice that some stated it would happen whether he won or lost . so far that is been false .
> 
> *it is my opinion that those predicting such things do so because either they see their own nature or actually hope such things will happen to vindicate their view of others ignorance .*
> I tend to be less cynical and feel that most people are good , even those I disagree with





PyroDon said:


> so far the racial violence has been restricted to children chanting kill Obama and some morons having a dead poll on when he will be assassinated . *seems those who were predicting violence were the most likely to insight it .*



In fact, Ladycat must have interpreted the post pretty much the way they are written because she had to post clarification because you basically said that what she said might happen was based on her own nature...

My point remains there is no need to vague insinuations or insults, you've laid out that you believe anyone who thought there might be violence was because that somewhere in their character that it's what they would do. I disagree with that statement completely.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

This thread is going further down hill.

If anything comes of the Supreme Court and the required birth certificate - Then let us know... here or in Politics forum.

This thread is closed.

Angie


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