# Wintertime stuff



## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

I was thinking of ordering some unassembled frames to put together for next season. Yet I keep looking at my boxes wondering if I even need them or if some of my hives wont make it. I have 7 hives and I know 1 is really strong (as they clean house big time) but not sure on the other 6 hives. Its Michigan so we still have a long winter ahead. What do you do during the winter to guess if they are okay or not? and do you think assembling hives would be an act of optimism to help them survive? LOL


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I used to use a water glass with the bottom againest the hive to listen as I taped on the hive with a tack hammer. it you hold your ear to the glass open end you can hear them in the hive. 
I finally broke down and got a stetascope at a medical supply plase for about $20.00. 

Makeing up frames and then installing real wax foundation at the last minute so I could put a swarm in a hive was the least like part of bee keeping. Now I make up frames and foundation for about 50% of the colonies we have so I am not forced to doa last second job. 

I also have an idea of how many frames i'm going to have tyo replace because the come is old and black so I make up enough to change that out come spring. Is also a good idea to make up frames and foundation for splits come spring on real strong hives and also nucs too.

Please put Michigan in yopur profile. 6A covers a way bigger area than just Michigan. Makes it easier to answer your bee keeping questions.


 Al


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## siberian (Aug 23, 2011)

I am playing around with a couple of app on the phone that detect heat. Am also going to pick up a camera for this since they have dropped so low in price.

How are they for food?


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## Bob M. (Nov 5, 2018)

7 hives is pretty light, you should have plenty of time after doing inspections next year to decide what s what, but you can split 1 hive into 7 if you really want to push it, so having more frames to swap is never going to really hurt much, and they are always needed really. not sure exactly on your setup, if you have all mediums or supers/etc., but your spitting will probably be done april ish or even may at the earliest I would think.
There are different methods of course, as well as what you are attempting to accomplish, raising brood or stealing honey or building hives. If you do build your frames which is fine, hold off on putting any foundation in now of course. at least I wouldn't, just gives a area for things to live in when done early. and you mentioned building frames then you mentioned building hives, which I am thinking you meant hive bodies? either way the answer is sort of the same, really.
I use a stethoscope also, this is pretty mild winter so far at least here. that can be good and bad. a lot of humidity around.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Your in a different part of Michigan than I am then to say we have had a mild winter so far.
Adveage for my area of Michigan in oct is 43F. We had 25 days with temptures 5 to 10F below adverage.
Adverage in November is 37F we had 28 days that were from 5 to 25F below normal.

December is a whole lot of difference. they we predicting 40F and above this week
We haven't seen a 40F day yet. But Christmas I think is going to be brown.

Not much snow so maybe that is what you ment for mild. I like the snow it insulates the hives from the cold.










Isn't any way I would attempt to do splits in April even if we had a streach of above normal temps. it can get pretty crappy in a hurry in april like the never ending wintewr of 2018.











 Al


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## Bob M. (Nov 5, 2018)

ya, I'm in s-e michigan, we are practically zone 7 as far as growing goes. We are probably 10 degrees warmer steadily than you may be, and no snow here yet really. but like I mentioned that can actually be a problem. We all know it isn;t the cold that really gets bees its the moisture, right?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Yes it is the moisture but the moisture with out the freezeing temps isn't nearly as bad as with the cold and moisture.

this past week was horriable with the 90+ % humidity nearly ever day and temps never getting to 40F at all As thew wether people were saying.


9:10 AM 12-10-18


26F, feels like 17F, humidity 78%, wind WNW at 8.1 MPH, cloudy.


Yesterdays high 32F.



9:10 AM 12-11-18


32F, feels like 23F, Humidity 73%, wind SW at 11.5 MPH, overcast.


Yesterdays high 29F.



9:10 AM 12-12-18


26F, feels like 19F, humidity 92%, wind SE At 5.8 MPH, cloudy 


yesterdays high 31F



9:25AM 12-13-18


36, feels like 36, humidity 85%, wind calm, over cast. 


Yesterdays high 32F.



9:15 AM. 12-14-18 


36F, feels like 36F, humidity 95%, wind calm, foggy.


Yesterdays high 39F


9:20 AM. 12-15-18


31F, feels like 31F, humidity 36%, wind Calm, overcast.


Yesterdays high 38F






8:00 AM 12-16-18


31F, feels like 31F, humidity 97%, wind Calm, foggy.


Yesterdays high 39F.


 Al


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## siberian (Aug 23, 2011)

So what do you do to control moisture in your hive?


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## Bob M. (Nov 5, 2018)

I dont do anything because I make my hives well. A lot or people do a lot of things, putting quilted layers inside, making quilt boxes or moisture boxes/etc. you can use inside covers with burlap/vivaldi boards/etc too.A lot of people see moisture and they think the idea is to seal their boxes completely. they want to 'trap in the heat' so to speak...bad idea. think of what happens when you cook pasta in the kitchen in the middle of winter to the windows...the warm moist air hits a cold surface and what happens? you get condensation. that is if it gets warm., if it gets too cold it then freezes. building a hive with the right air circulation and right beespace (So they dont close off airflow areas,), head space/vent area is important. The same is really true with humans. if you are dry and cold it isnt o bad...if you get moist or wet and cold...you are screwed. bees need to produce energy to heat their area and stay warm during the winter. the more they need to create the more food/etc they have to consume to create those calories. good food, good moisture absorbent materials used in the hives that breath, and air circulation is the key. not airflow like the wind blowing though your hive, but air exchange.)

a way to maybe look at how a hive can be, is think about your house, chances are it has a attic which is insulated. it also has airflow, the heat from your home, and its moisture rises up into the attic, if you didn't have insulation you would lose a lot of heat. not all of it, and if you didnt have a attic that circulated the heat and moisture through the soffit vents, you would have moisture problems probably. doing the same for your bee hives is a good idea imo. it doesnt have to be a peaked roof mind you. a regular telescoping lid with a moisture box (your attic) and some insulation, quilt, wood shavings/etc as insulation and to absorb any moisture that may drip before it hits the bees, vent holes for air flow is fine.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I have burlap I bought in a roll. Cut it double the side of a inside deep top and bottom. Make a bag fill it with cedar shavings (for pet beds) and sew it shut with garden jute twine and a large curved needle. lay them right on the top bars. The cedar chips asorbe moisture, take them out in the spring and store them iin a dry place for next years use. 


 Al


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## siberian (Aug 23, 2011)

Last year I put a bag of opened sugar in the top. It gathered water pretty well.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Some people lay a bit of straw on the top bars too.

 Al


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

Well I am down to 3-4 hives. It seems Mites took down two of my hives with a possible 3rd. I will be learning how to do the OA treatments in 2019 for sure!


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## Bob M. (Nov 5, 2018)

always a shame to hear that. it is really pretty easy to use OA, but you may also check into breaking your mite cycles with on the spot queen rearing (OTS) and disrupting the hive, making it go queenless/broodless for a bit. if you do this at the right time, it breaks the mite cycle correctly and disrupts them reproducing enough to outgrow the hive before winter. It further allows you to have multiple laying queens, common sense means 1 queen laying X eggs means 5 queens laying x eggs. allowing the hive to out grow the mites also and go into winter much stronger. furthermore you can also replace queens as you wish always keeping them in their laying primes, and furthermore you also develop the species from survivor stock of your own. survivor stock should always pretty much, with a few exceptions be preferred over new stock.
Anyways, look into it and see if it is something you may be interested in for yourself "OTS" or "On the spot queen rearing" it is actually a whole system and way of doing things, it isn't just about raising queens, but hive management and propagation.

here if you are unfamiliar with the basic method. but you should look up OTS on google and do more research, as there is more to it than this by far:


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I don't screw around with any thing except proven stuff. Mite away II strips work great and can even be used with honey supers on if you so desire.
I also rotate drone comb every 20 days 
Raise my queens from stock that has made it thru at least 3 winters and have seprate mateing yards with hives of drones from stock that have made it thru at least 3 years also.

 Al


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

It all intimidates me. But I will hang around here more and soak up the knowledge of you wiser beekeepers


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## siberian (Aug 23, 2011)

alleyyooper said:


> I don't screw around with any thing except proven stuff. Mite away II strips work great and can even be used with honey supers on if you so desire.
> I also rotate drone comb every 20 days
> Raise my queens from stock that has made it thru at least 3 winters and have seprate mateing yards with hives of drones from stock that have made it thru at least 3 years also.
> 
> Al




In all respect, I myself cant depend on proven ways. Dolittle showed without a doubt that constant splitting was the way to go, and at the time it was. New research is verifies some old ways like with the research on propolis. New research also show the difference between feeding pollen or bee bread and even the difference in pollen. On a personal level, I think that beekeeping has transformed from being a game of checkers to a game of chess.


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## siberian (Aug 23, 2011)

By the OA has been around in countries that have much stricter food laws than we do for a number of years, and OTS for queen rearing is far from new, it is a very dated method that has come back into the spotlight.


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