# For the ones in need, things are getting worse soon



## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Many people might not be aware of it, but many of the programs which are available to help the neediest people are either going away or getting cut drastically. I find it interesting that the government(which is doing the cutting) isn't getting very specific about what's happening. I guess they figure everybody who depends on those programs will find out about it when the programs stop and everybody else doesn't need to know about it.:nana:


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Such as.....????

and how are they funded?


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Energy Assistance Programs(for people who can't pay their heating and cooling bills), Commodities Program(where the government hands out inexpensive food for people who can't afford to buy it), and several other programs are getting completely cut or drastically reduced. The organizations which operated those programs are scrambling around trying to find alternative sources, but they don't have much confidence they'll succeed. Most of them were funded by grants from the Federal government.
Didn't you hear the big announcement about it? :hrm:


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

FourDeuce said:


> Energy Assistance Programs(for people who can't pay their heating and cooling bills), Commodities Program(where the government hands out inexpensive food for people who can't afford to buy it), and several other programs are getting completely cut or drastically reduced. The organizations which operated those programs are scrambling around trying to find alternative sources, but they don't have much confidence they'll succeed. Most of them were funded by grants from the Federal government.
> Didn't you hear the big announcement about it? :hrm:


How many government agencies are doing those same jobs under different names? Some of them need to be cut to reduce the number of government employees. The GAO just announced they found 200 billion in duplicate services and waste. I used to deliver mail to an old guy who lived in a trailer. I hated to have to knock on his door for some reason because he would BEG me to take some of his excess food. He had dozens of boxes of food in his trailer and 3 groups funded by the government brought him more every month. He told them he didn't need it because it was way more than he could eat but they insisted he take it because it was free. He knew it wasn't free.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Too bad the government goons don't cut their lavish lifestyles.
How much did just Pelosi waste on her private publicly funded jet setting?
They talk about cutting spending but when it comes down to it, they won't cut anything but things we'll throw a fit about so they can say "well, we tried".
Obama says "We'll have to make painful cuts" but when it comes time to make those painful cuts, he backs the union crime bosses and sends the dems into hiding.
They aren't going to cut spending until we root the corruption out of our government, and we can't do that as long as they keep us divided.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Maybe it's not quite time for the government to start leading everybody in a few choruses of "Happy Days Are Here Again".:nono:


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

poppy said:


> How many government agencies are doing those same jobs under different names? Some of them need to be cut to reduce the number of government employees. The GAO just announced they found 200 billion in duplicate services and waste. I used to deliver mail to an old guy who lived in a trailer. I hated to have to knock on his door for some reason because he would BEG me to take some of his excess food. He had dozens of boxes of food in his trailer and 3 groups funded by the government brought him more every month. He told them he didn't need it because it was way more than he could eat but they insisted he take it because it was free. He knew it wasn't free.


I once did a small electrical trouble shoot/repair job for a old man. He lived in a old trailer house and looked to not very much money so I didn't charge him but $50 dollars for a job that normally would have cost at least $100 dollars. He was somewhat surprized of my low charge. He looked at me with disbelief and then he said "Hey for no more then your charging me, would you be interested in frozen t.v. dinners?" He opened a upright freezer and it was plumb full of dinners from some kind of a Meals on Wheels type program. He said "I'll never eat it all, why don't you take a bunch home with you?" So he loaded several plastic bags full of it and I brought it home with me. He probably gave me more moneys worth of food then what I didn't charge him for.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

Obama promised us change, and change is what where getting. So anyone that voted for him shouldn't be a gripping.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Not even getting much change these days, after filling up the tank in my mini-van.


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## caroline (Sep 29, 2009)

Sonshine said:


> Not even getting much change these days, after filling up the tank in my mini-van.



A friend of mine is disabled and lives on 700 a month. She gets 200 worth of food stamps and she gets HEAP (heating help) once a winter that fills her propane tank once! She doesn't have a new car, has no pets and eats one meal a day. She has basic cable and an electric bill that runs about 200 a month.

From that 700 she pays 410 in rent, pays her car ins., electric, and has to save the rest if there is any to buy her propane when HEAP runs out.

It ran out in January so I loaned her my quartz electric heater which heated her bedroom and bath and she has been living in that room all winter. 

Today she got a letter telling her no more HEAP this year or next. She is devasted. 
She is single, 52 and all alone. 

She has a college education and had always worked till she ended up with a twisted spine.

I wonder when the so called gov't is going to address this country in a manner that doesn't serve their greed?

They ought to be ashamed to show their faces.


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## LonelyNorthwind (Mar 6, 2010)

Did any of you see the first part of 60 minutes last night? It was a heartbreaking look into the thousands of homeless school children going to bed hungry in the back seat of the family car. Parked at walmart. Cleaning up for school in the walmart bathroom. These are children of professionals whose parents lost their jobs then homes in the suburbs. I cried through the whole thing. If you can see it online somehow, you should. I'm afraid we have a catastrophe looming while we're pouring billions into other countries who have no use for us. AAARRRGH!


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

GrammasCabin said:


> Did any of you see the first part of 60 minutes last night? It was a heartbreaking look into the thousands of homeless school children going to bed hungry in the back seat of the family car. Parked at walmart. Cleaning up for school in the walmart bathroom. These are children of professionals whose parents lost their jobs then homes in the suburbs. I cried through the whole thing. If you can see it online somehow, you should. I'm afraid we have a catastrophe looming while we're pouring billions into other countries who have no use for us. AAARRRGH!


It is no sadder than the thousands of children that have been going to bed hungry and cold for years and years and years. Homeless children are not new. Hungry children are not new. Children whose only meals are the ones they get from the school are not new.
The only thing new is the date and time.
Did any one cry for all of them??

No. Because there moms must be crack addicted you-know-whats. And not families that fell on hard times or lost their home in a fire or lost their job and couldn't find another one...
Nothing is different and there have been 'good' people homeless since the beginning of homes and kids are kids no matter what.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

It is terrible. Just incomprehensible. But whoever it was in a post above said it---the government is wasting billions, literally billions of dollars. And on what? 

Pet projects. Duplicate social programs that we are told were designed to solve problems but do nothing but foster dependancy. Imprisoning people with zero criminal history for years for having an ounce of pot. Border control fiascos like the 'bean bag' shootings. Letting illegals suck our social programs dry. Fraud in programs like SSI, disability, etc. 

I have no problem whatsoever with social programs that help people who are truly in need of help. I know there are those who have dire, life-altering catastrophes happen to them. I know because we have experienced that ourselves, so I know terrible things really do happen to good, decent, hard working people, and I believe we should have some provision for them.

But what we do NOT need is provisions for those who are generational welfare recipients---because they choose not to work. 

I wonder how many tens, or hundreds of billions of dollars could be saved if all this fraud, graft, corruption and outright theft were eradicated. 

And yet those who pay taxes keep getting milked.

What is going to REALLY get worse soon is that those of us left who actually pay taxes (and don't get refunds) are going to be bankrupted. So they levy our bank account and we have to close it. They can levy it down to zero balance, whoop de do. So they attach a lien to our home, and we'll burn it to the ground before we let anyone sieze it and sell it. 

When the taxpayer has no more to give them---when they have milked the cow dry, killed the goose that's laying their golden eggs, that's when things really ARE going to get bad.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

JuliaAnn said:


> But what we do NOT need is provisions for those who are generational welfare recipients---because they choose not to work.
> 
> *I agree 100%.*
> 
> When the taxpayer has no more to give them---when they have milked the cow dry, killed the goose that's laying their golden eggs, that's when things really ARE going to get bad.


*I hope you are wrong, but I worry that you are not.*


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## LonelyNorthwind (Mar 6, 2010)

chickenista said:


> It is no sadder than the thousands of children that have been going to bed hungry and cold for years and years and years. Homeless children are not new. Hungry children are not new. Children whose only meals are the ones they get from the school are not new.
> The only thing new is the date and time.
> Did any one cry for all of them??
> 
> ...


What makes you think I don't know that homeless and hungry children are not new. I was one of them abandoned for 3 weeks at age 8 and aged in foster homes 'til 18 and poof, on my own. That's all the more reason to reach out even if it's far away tears for so many in sudden need now. Why do you sound so angry at my post?


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

My apologies.
I have been jaded by too many years here and reading too much heartlessness.
I truly am sorry.
See.. I took it as you were sad because it was suburban kids that were suffering and that made it different somehow from all the kids for generations in the mountains or in the streets that have been hungry.
It is not too far of a stretch around here.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

GrammasCabin said:


> Did any of you see the first part of 60 minutes last night? It was a heartbreaking look into the thousands of homeless school children going to bed hungry in the back seat of the family car. Parked at walmart. Cleaning up for school in the walmart bathroom. These are children of professionals whose parents lost their jobs then homes in the suburbs. I cried through the whole thing. If you can see it online somehow, you should. I'm afraid we have a catastrophe looming while we're pouring billions into other countries who have no use for us. AAARRRGH!


Here it is....very sad.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR3jQOgs9gc[/ame]


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

When the government makes cuts it's like being in a knife fight. They only start slashing where it hurts the most.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

You know...before we abdicated our responsibilities and hired the govt to do our charity work for us....communities helped others in need. Churches, towns, civic organizations....it pulled communities together. We the PEOPLe have allowed the govt to be this way. "THE GOVT" is US.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

poppy said:


> How many government agencies are doing those same jobs under different names? Some of them need to be cut to reduce the number of government employees. The GAO just announced they found 200 billion in duplicate services and waste. I used to deliver mail to an old guy who lived in a trailer. I hated to have to knock on his door for some reason because he would BEG me to take some of his excess food. He had dozens of boxes of food in his trailer and 3 groups funded by the government brought him more every month. He told them he didn't need it because it was way more than he could eat but they insisted he take it because it was free. He knew it wasn't free.


Don't want to 'correct' you Poppy, but that's 340 billion in waste!! Its got so a few bill here, few:hair bill there, seems like chump change, huh.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Sonshine said:


> Not even getting much change these days, after filling up the tank in my mini-van.


Didja hear that they were gonna start showing porn flicks at the pumps? So we can see others getting s****ed at the same time!


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## English Oliver (Jul 2, 2008)

I sold a house last year to a guy that makes around $8000. a year not counting his income from social programs. The agency (Tri-Cap) that helped him get the loan had the house appraised at 25% more than I was asking so he could get a 100% loan. Shortly before I sold the house I had put in new windows, reinsulated it, rebuilt the furnace with new burners and gas valve, and had the water heater and central air all checked out. I ran into the guy three months after I sold the house to him and he said he had a new central air, furnace, and water heater, installed and had the house insulated. I asked him why he did it when none of those things were needed. He said because he qualified for the program and they were free. $15,000. of un-needed improvements to a home that will be paid for with tax money. It may have been free to him but guess who paid for it. The bum should be living in a box in an alley.

"O"


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

English Oliver said:


> He said because he qualified for the program and they were free. $15,000. of un-needed improvements to a home that will be paid for with tax money. It may have been free to him but guess who paid for it.
> 
> "O"


That's the problem I encounter.....people haven't a clue as to where that money comes from, other than 'the government'. :bash:


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## Chickadee_42us (Jan 24, 2003)

Yep, it's said that we are sending food/funding etc. to others when it is plainly needed here. Having said that, I have been wondering if the 'world' has been led with blinders on to the real happenings here. Several years ago when the healthcare debate was ongoing a government representative stated that healthcare was available to everyone. Phooey - it is not. The same propaganda is being spread about food programs. Food programs are not available for all people either. I certainly haven't any direct knowledge of food programs but it is probably based on the same as the healthcare. Do you own a house with a value over $, do you own a car with a value over $. Oh, you don't qualify.

On the service the words sound uplifting. "We take care of our own." In reality, do we?


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Callieslamb said:


> You know...before we abdicated our responsibilities and hired the govt to do our charity work for us....communities helped others in need. Churches, towns, civic organizations....it pulled communities together. We the PEOPLe have allowed the govt to be this way. "THE GOVT" is US.


And they decide who to help- their own come first, and sometimes they only help their own. Their own religion, their own family, their own race, their own type of people, etc. Been there, done that. :stars:


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

The problem IMO is that we don't take care of our WORKING poor. We take care of the poor who have no income, but once you get a job and try to make your life better the govt cuts off all assistance.

I understand that some people (ie those on disability) can't work. But how many times have you seen families where every single stinking person in the family has a "bad back" or "bad nerves" (WTH is that?) and they are milking the system?

Those who are trying are the ones I choose to help. Those who sit at home on the gov't dole and do not a d**m thing receive no sympathy from me.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

GrammasCabin said:


> Did any of you see the first part of 60 minutes last night? It was a heartbreaking look into the thousands of homeless school children going to bed hungry in the back seat of the family car. Parked at walmart. Cleaning up for school in the walmart bathroom. These are children of professionals whose parents lost their jobs then homes in the suburbs. I cried through the whole thing. If you can see it online somehow, you should. I'm afraid we have a catastrophe looming while we're pouring billions into other countries who have no use for us. AAARRRGH!



.........................Isn't IT Ironic , that , these TV preachers seem to be focused on promoting their "help the children" donation programs , and ALL the children seem too be over in Africa somewhere ! They must be completely , Blind OR Stupid , or both ! , fordy


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

caroline said:


> A friend of mine is disabled and lives on 700 a month. She gets 200 worth of food stamps and she gets HEAP (heating help) once a winter that fills her propane tank once! She doesn't have a new car, has no pets and eats one meal a day. She has basic cable and an electric bill that runs about 200 a month.
> 
> From that 700 she pays 410 in rent, pays her car ins., electric, and has to save the rest if there is any to buy her propane when HEAP runs out.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry for your friend but it is *NOT* the government's job to take care of the individual citizen. It is not the government's job to take money from you and give it to another individual just because the government thinks that other individual deserves or has more need for it than you do.

The government can offer incentives such as tax breaks and such to encourage people and companies to help people like your friend but it should never use the threat of violence via the force of law to take money from them.

Say your local Boy Scout troop has an individual they want to help by building a wheelchair ramp for them, and need money to do it. Now they have a couple of ways to do it. They can set up jars and ask people to give. Or they can offer incentives for people to give; bake goods, car wash, etc. Or they can get together and stop people on the street, demand money and tell the person if they don't give they will be beaten up. 

Of those three ways which would you call wrong? Which of those three match the most closely to what the government does with its "help" programs?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Callieslamb said:


> You know...before we abdicated our responsibilities and hired the govt to do our charity work for us....communities helped others in need. Churches, towns, civic organizations....it pulled communities together. We the PEOPLe have allowed the govt to be this way. "THE GOVT" is US.


It's still that way. Several churches in this rural area have food pantries for the poor and you can't walk into a store without seeing a canister wanting money for someone who is ill or their house burnt or something. The stories of hungry children are sad but they beg the question, whose fault is it? The blame falls squarely on the parents. If you are really that poor, you qualify for Welfare and food stamps. If the food stamps run out before the end of the month, there are food pantries to get you by. I grow tired of people trying to put a guilt trip on people instead of where it belongs. It is usually done by the left to foster the idea that we need bigger government and higher taxes.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

These are positive steps. They have to cut spending. Unfortunately those in need are the ones who always get hit hardest when spending cuts are made because they are dependent on government spending. You can't cut any entitlements from people who don't receive any.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

This is more of Obama's idea of wealth transfer. 

He's also saying that the rich need to give more & help the poor - I work for a non-profit that depends upon donations - let me tell ya - they're feeling pinched also. Our donations are way down. 

As far as the 60 minutes program - it's the parents poor decisions/greed that have made the children homeless. 125% home loans - how greedy can you get? They need to take responsibility for the plight of their children rather than play the victim role. 

Food boxes? When I worked for the state, I'd go to people's homes & see loads of food - most things that people either didn't want or _didn't know how to cook._ - and empty pizza boxes laying around....

Maybe we need to rethink how to help others?? A little education would go a long way ...but then I don't want to get off topic and talk about how schooling isn't preparing our youth to deal with the real world. 

Also, we all need to look at history - look at Germany and what happened when inflation occurred before WWII. Pretty soon there will be NO MORE middle class.....


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Well I hope we can all get past the sour attitudes of those in need to help them. For all these years, with all their bad attitudes that not only do we have to help them but that we owe it to them. It get's older and older.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

SquashNut said:


> Well I hope we can all get past the sour attitudes of those in need to help them. For all these years, with all their bad attitudes that not only do we have to help them but that we owe it to them. It get's older and older.


Are you saying that even with the receiptents bad attitudes "we owe it to them".? 

If that is what you are saying - why, is it "owed" to them?


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

caroline said:


> A friend of mine is disabled and lives on 700 a month. She gets 200 worth of food stamps and she gets HEAP (heating help) once a winter that fills her propane tank once! She doesn't have a new car, has no pets and eats one meal a day. She has basic cable and an electric bill that runs about 200 a month.
> 
> From that 700 she pays 410 in rent, pays her car ins., electric, and has to save the rest if there is any to buy her propane when HEAP runs out.
> 
> ...


I don't believe that this country the wealthiest on the face of the planet cannot afford to help your friend. If we would stop shoveling the money upward to the already wealthy and they would stop shoveling that same money out of the country into creating overseas jobs that compete with Americans there would be plenty of money for our economy.

We also need to help people insulate their homes. In the long run it would save money.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

AngieM2 said:


> Are you saying that even with the receiptents bad attitudes "we owe it to them".?
> 
> If that is what you are saying - why, is it "owed" to them?


That's what they seem to think. We have given till it hurts and now that this country has spent it's self into oblivion. They will be stomping their feet because of the cuts. In some ways it is just sad, as in discusting.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

poppy said:


> It's still that way. Several churches in this rural area have food pantries for the poor and you can't walk into a store without seeing a canister wanting money for someone who is ill or their house burnt or something. The stories of hungry children are sad but they beg the question, whose fault is it? The blame falls squarely on the parents. If you are really that poor, you qualify for Welfare and food stamps. If the food stamps run out before the end of the month, there are food pantries to get you by. I grow tired of people trying to put a guilt trip on people instead of where it belongs. It is usually done by the left to foster the idea that we need bigger government and higher taxes.


To get welfare or food stamps, you have to have an address. If you are homeless, then you don't have one. Many shelters are at capacity and their funding has been cut during a time of unprecendented need.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

fishhead said:


> I don't believe that this country the wealthiest on the face of the planet cannot afford to help your friend. If we would stop shoveling the money upward to the already wealthy and they would stop shoveling that same money out of the country into creating overseas jobs that compete with Americans there would be plenty of money for our economy.
> 
> We also need to help people insulate their homes. In the long run it would save money.


I don't see where we are the wealthiest in the world. We are a debtor nation now. It is up to us to take care of our own now. And I'll just bet the ones who need help and ask kindly will be the ones who get help. The demanding ones, might not.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

SquashNut said:


> That's what they seem to think. We have given till it hurts and now that this country has spent it's self into oblivion. They will be stomping their feet because of the cuts. In some ways it is just sad, as in discusting.


thanks for explaining. What I thought I was reading didn't make sense


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Quite often I don't even understand what I am saying.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

watcher said:


> I'm sorry for your friend but it is *NOT* the government's job to take care of the individual citizen. It is not the government's job to take money from you and give it to another individual just because the government thinks that other individual deserves or has more need for it than you do.
> 
> The government can offer incentives such as tax breaks and such to encourage people and companies to help people like your friend but it should never use the threat of violence via the force of law to take money from them.


I have to agree with this. 

If this person is in need they can go to local churches, etc, without hitting up the gov't. Pretty much everyone - even people who have twisted spines and are wheelchair bound - can do some kind of volunteer work. Can she help in the church office putting together a weekly bulletin, or call some of the elderly in the area who don't have family around to check in on them? I'd imagine that if she looked around she could find a church willing to help her with her expenses in exchange for "volunteer" work that she is capable of doing.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

fishhead said:


> I don't believe that this country the wealthiest on the face of the planet cannot afford to help your friend. If we would stop shoveling the money upward to the already wealthy and they would stop shoveling that same money out of the country into creating overseas jobs that compete with Americans there would be plenty of money for our economy.
> 
> We also need to help people insulate their homes. In the long run it would save money.


Again I state its not the governments job nor does it have the right to take money from one individual and give it to another individual who is not providing a good or service to the government.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

TheMartianChick said:


> To get welfare or food stamps, you have to have an address. If you are homeless, then you don't have one. Many shelters are at capacity and their funding has been cut during a time of unprecendented need.


Think about it. How many people losing their homes would not have a relative, friend, co-worker, etc. that would let them use their address for such things? They rarely check up on addresses and if they do all your friend has to say is " Yes, they are staying with me ". It happens all the time. And when have you EVER seen funding cut for any government program that those getting cut didn't claim an unprecedented need for their services?


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

there are charities that can help those truley in need, though donations. The goverment has to borrow the money for these programs and i am getting the idea no one is loaning to them any more.


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2011)

I went to google news and put in the search string

welfare program cuts

There are lots of articles about it.



watcher said:


> I'm sorry for your friend but it is *NOT* the government's job to take care of the individual citizen. It is not the government's job to take money from you and give it to another individual just because the government thinks that other individual deserves or has more need for it than you do.


You're right. It's the job of the Church. The Church has been COMMANDED to. But the Church isn't doing it.


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## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

+1 to Watcher. The Fed does not have an endless supply of our money to redistribute.


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## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

Wolf mom said:


> This is more of Obama's idea of wealth transfer.
> 
> He's also saying that the rich need to give more & help the poor - I work for a non-profit that depends upon donations - let me tell ya - they're feeling pinched also. Our donations are way down.
> 
> ....


How can this be "wealth transfer"? No one is holding a gun to the rich and telling them to give. "Weath Transfer" is when the government is involved and tells you to either pay up or deal with the IRS. The government hasn't said anything about making you give. You can keep your money now. The Republicans are going to be thrilled because now folks can either pull themselves up by their bootstraps or they can give to their beloved little charities and get a case of the warm fuzzies. Let's let the self pontification begin!


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

I think we can still go a long way in helping the plight of the poor and middle class by REDUCING restrictive regulations and government grants.

We should be aiming for a truly free market....and that is something that many large corporation would desperately oppose. In a truly free market, Walmart would not have gotten 50 billion dollars of taxpayer money to open new stores. This effectively makes it impossible for smaller stores to compete. In a truly free market, the auto industry would not have been able to lobby for regulations that make it impossible for anyone without BILLIONS of dollars to manufacture cars.

Large corporations use big government to stifle competition and gain unfair competitive advantages. Henry Ford could never have survived, using his business model, in today's ultra regulated market...it's all sewn up by the big guys. The market with the most innovation is the computer/internet industry because it is the least regulated.

If we truly want to see prosperity, we have to loosen the restraints on individuals and allow natural innovation to take its course. No more bailouts, no more over-regulation, no more taxpayer grant money...no more corporate welfare. Let every business scrap it out in a free market and may the best man win.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

KnowOneSpecial said:


> How can this be "wealth transfer"? No one is holding a gun to the rich and telling them to give. * "Weath Transfer" is when the government is involved and tells you to either pay up or deal with the IRS.* The government hasn't said anything about making you give. You can keep your money now. The Republicans are going to be thrilled because now folks can either pull themselves up by their bootstraps or they can give to their beloved little charities and get a case of the warm fuzzies. Let's let the self pontification begin!


Wealth transfer is forced upon me every time I get paid. I get part of my money removed in "taxes" and that money goes to fund gov't programs. Not just $ to run the govt or necessary things (like paying the electric bill for the White House) but to pay for the groceries that people on Food Stamps get for free, or to the check that welfare recipients get to spend on whatever they want.

Taking my hard-earned money in the form of taxes and using them to pay for necessary expenses to run the gov't is one thing. 

Taking my hard-earned money in the form of taxes, then handing that money over to someone who doesn't want to work IS distribution of wealth.

Take from the haves, give to the have nots. Take from the hard workers, give to the lazy. 

If I tried to avoid allowing my money to be redistributed, I'd be arrested for tax evasion. So yeah, I don't have a choice except to be shaken down by the govt every time I get paid. Its not an optional event for anyone who earns their money the old-fashioned way - by actually working for it.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

People on here warned every one this would happen. It was said if we didn't slow down on giving welfare to able bodied people, there would have to be cuts that would Hurt the truley needy.
Some one said they would rather feed 100 welfare mooches than to pass over 1 truley needy person.
Look where that attitude got us.
Chances are those that are turned down by charities, could do ok with out the help if they tryed.


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## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

bluemoonluck said:


> Wealth transfer is forced upon me every time I get paid. I get part of my money removed in "taxes" and that money goes to fund gov't programs. Not just $ to run the govt or necessary things (like paying the electric bill for the White House) but to pay for the groceries that people on Food Stamps get for free, or to the check that welfare recipients get to spend on whatever they want.
> 
> Taking my hard-earned money in the form of taxes and using them to pay for necessary expenses to run the gov't is one thing.
> 
> ...


I agree. And now the government is cutting back on "giving to the lazy". No more 'wealth transfer', assuming they are paying bills with it-hopefully real things like paying for two wars we should have never goten into or for tax breaks for oil companies....ya know, REAL stuff. Right?


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

I guess fair means different things for different people.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

KnowOneSpecial said:


> I agree. And now the government is cutting back on "giving to the lazy". No more 'wealth transfer', assuming they are paying bills with it-hopefully real things like paying for two wars we should have never goten into or for tax breaks for oil companies....ya know, REAL stuff. Right?


The oil company tax cuts helped us buy our oil cheaper.
And those 2 wars were warrented.
Just because some want to wash the suffering of people from their minds just because they are in a foreign country doesn't mean the suffering isn't there.
often it has been a case of comparing the poor here with their cell phones with peoples in other countries who are oppressed by terrorist regeims.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

KnowOneSpecial said:


> I agree. And now the government is cutting back on "giving to the lazy". No more 'wealth transfer', assuming they are paying bills with it-hopefully real things like paying for two wars we should have never goten into or for tax breaks for oil companies....ya know, REAL stuff. Right?


By Jove I think you got it!


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

caroline said:


> A friend of mine is disabled and lives on 700 a month. She gets 200 worth of food stamps and she gets HEAP (heating help) once a winter that fills her propane tank once! She doesn't have a new car, has no pets and eats one meal a day. She has basic cable and an electric bill that runs about 200 a month.
> 
> From that 700 she pays 410 in rent, pays her car ins., electric, and has to save the rest if there is any to buy her propane when HEAP runs out.
> 
> ...


It is so sad for your friend and it will be like that for many, many people next year.
If we took.. say the billions upon billions upon billions that we give to the oil companies.. who have been having the highest profits in recorded history.. billions in take home pay! each year and used it towards the folks, like your friend, that really need help.. that would be nice.
The money needs to be directed away from greed and more to need..
And people that don't truly need it should be nice and not take any.. and we should play fair.. and I am completely insane and I do know that none of this will happen..ever.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

have you guys looked into how much of that oil money is taxes taken by the goverment already?


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

It's strange to see people defending tax breaks for the richest corporations on the planet who are probably going to post world record profits again. Strange!


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

I just think you should look into why they get the tax breaks.
About $.75 of every gallon goes to taxes for state and feds.

It looks to me that the energy assistance programs have just flat run dry for the year. I know it is snowing here today.

In case you want to know it was Obama who cut the program.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

When someone is in a car wreck and is permanently disabled - often the first thing the family is instructed is how to get govt assistance. Do this long enough and we "need" a national health care plan. Children not getting equivalent educations across the country?- we get govt controlled education. Don't protect our borders? we get to get very familiar with airport security curtesy of Homeland Security.

What will be next? We need to be more wise than we have in the past. As a people, have taken the easy road too many times. We need to look back to our roots and remember the hard decisions that were made in the past - yes, some suffered. We cannot alleviate all of it. I just hope we get the chance to have a DO OVER!!!!


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

One of the county extension office employees developed a program that reached out to the people on welfare and poorer people that used the Angel Food boxes or the donations of local companies. Her goal was to teach these young mothers to cook with what they had adn how to stretch a dollar. After the class they were given a box of food using what they used in the class. We allowed the group to use our kitchen at church for a couple of years. Guess what? Most of the women who came (not all mind you) only came for the free food. They could have cared less about learning how to take care of themselves. She really cared about those girls and worked her butt off for them. It was a real good program and had the support of our church. She raised three boys and supported and unemployed husband on $25,000 a year. She walked the walk and talked the talk.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

We are seeing the tail end of a cycle that has begun, ran it's course, and ended in disaster for the populace so afflicted time and time again in history.

It all starts with a petition, or a consent, on the part of a citizenry/tribe/village, for/to a group of men ( man-made government) to offer protection, or provision, usually in the smallest degree.

Once any free wanderer or inhabitant on the planet accepts provision or protection in the smallest degree, the slippery slope is established to being taxed into oblivion.

Ben Franklin warned, and that rather harshly, of what he saw that those who seek safety/security at the cost of liberty deserve--neither safety/security...nor liberty.

Proverbs warns of the dangers of casting your lot with sinners that "we might have one purse".

Take responsibility for yourselves while you still have any semblance of liberty/economic opportunity to do so.
It's far to late for the nation, and the world. 
When this coming cataclysm runs it's course, it will be survival of the mentally and physically fittest, i.e. the best prepared. That preparation may or may not manifest itself in the form of "rice and beans".

The largest gated city (economic prison) ever to manifest itself on this planet is just about to close it's gates on the unsuspecting inhabitants, maybe, this time, forever.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

Callieslamb said:


> You know...before we abdicated our responsibilities and hired the govt to do our charity work for us....communities helped others in need. Churches, towns, civic organizations....it pulled communities together. We the PEOPLe have allowed the govt to be this way. "THE GOVT" is US.


Yes! And this is exactly what Beck was talking about during his restoring honor speech. Where are the Churches? Of course the church is only as strong as its leadership and its congregation. What exactly is the leadership doing to insert the Church more assertively into the community to help with the various social issues? And where are the Church members to do the same and hold their leadership accountable?

Sometimes a mirror is needed to find the truth.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

And now we're being told that hidden in the healthcare bill is 104 BILLION dollars of your money and mine to be spent within the next few years - along with a clause that says we HAVE to fund it!!

AND it comes out that Sebelius KNEW about it before the bill was passed. 

Talk to me about wealth transfer.....:hair

Makes me sick!


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2011)

Callieslamb said:


> You know...before we abdicated our responsibilities and hired the govt to do our charity work for us....communities helped others in need. Churches, towns, civic organizations....it pulled communities together. We the PEOPLe have allowed the govt to be this way. "THE GOVT" is US.


Some communities are still that way. The Amish are a really good example.



bluemoonluck said:


> The problem IMO is that we don't take care of our WORKING poor. We take care of the poor who have no income, but once you get a job and try to make your life better the govt cuts off all assistance.
> 
> I understand that some people (ie those on disability) can't work. But how many times have you seen families where every single stinking person in the family has a "bad back" or "bad nerves" (WTH is that?) and they are milking the system?
> 
> Those who are trying are the ones I choose to help. Those who sit at home on the gov't dole and do not a d**m thing receive no sympathy from me.


Ditto!!!!!!!!!!



Wolf mom said:


> As far as the 60 minutes program - it's the parents poor decisions/greed that have made the children homeless. 125% home loans - how greedy can you get? They need to take responsibility for the plight of their children rather than play the victim role.


No doubt that's the case with many of them, but most likely plenty of them were just caught up in the bad economy that hit that area.



Wolf mom said:


> Food boxes? When I worked for the state, I'd go to people's homes & see loads of food - most things that people either didn't want or _didn't know how to cook._ - and empty pizza boxes laying around....


I've seen so much of that in welfare neighborhoods...


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

When we change the attitude from "What we have to do"....as in do it or else. To seeing what we are able to do, What we need to do. Maybe things will change.

Many of the churches are teaching social justice.(spread the wealth) as they are being infiltraded by the progressives, just like the White House has been.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Sooo ..... what do y'all think you need to do then? :hrm:

.


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2011)

naturelover said:


> Sooo ..... what do y'all think you need to do then? :hrm:
> 
> .


As individuals, we can do a lot- if we will.

Each one of us could get involved: volunteer in a local charity, or even adopt an elderly person or family in need. 

If each and every family who has a little time, money, or resources to spare- no matter how little- could help one person or family in need, the world would be a better place.

No pressure, no forceful taking of taxes by the government for the purpose of distributing to to the masses, but done so voluntarily, and as much or little as one feels comfortable with.

No money at all? You can still make a difference. Is there an elderly neighbor who could use a little help changing lightbulbs and sweeping under the bed? Little acts of caring and compassion can make a person's life cheerier.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

What do we need to do?

Anything that is done, that works, will be painful to the ones whose government gifts will be cut. That is welfare, home loans, business loans, education loans, grants for this and that, etc., etc. 

So, we need to all be aware of this and not cave when things are put in place. There are people who truly do not realize they are supposed to provide for themselves. There are people I know that are now 4th generation on welfare. They truly believe that is their due. These people will have to be educated - as harsh as that sounds. Parents will have to be made to realize they are responsible for the upkeep of their children - that means both parents. 

Welfare as we now have it is a terrible hoax that has been perpetrated on several generations of Americans and it has taken it toll.

It won't just be the welfare people, either as many business benefit greatly from welfare. It will mean a loss of jobs for some - medical field, grocery stores, clothing stores, etc.

If we do this, and help each other through it, we are bound to come back a stronger nation with stronger, more self-reliant citizens.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

"If we do this, and help each other through it, we are bound to come back a stronger nation with stronger, more self-reliant citizens."

Yes, those who survive should come back that way, but there will probably be quite a few people "lost" along the way.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Wolf mom said:


> And now we're being told that hidden in the healthcare bill is 104 BILLION dollars of your money and mine to be spent within the next few years - along with a clause that says we HAVE to fund it!!
> 
> AND it comes out that Sebelius KNEW about it before the bill was passed.
> 
> ...


Uh, WM, it was 106 BILLION!!
Where's the left's response on this??? They think its perfectly OK?? 
How can anyone align themselves w/this party??

Oh, and edited to add, what about the 340 billion of pure WASTE that was found b/c of so many unnecessary gov't programs?? And the dems can only come up w/about .28% reduction in spending??? Yeah, I'll cut my months grocery bill by $.50, same thing.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Tricky Grama said:


> Uh, WM, it was 106 BILLION!!
> Where's the left's response on this??? They think its perfectly OK??
> How can anyone align themselves w/this party??
> 
> Oh, and edited to add, what about the 340 billion of pure WASTE that was found b/c of so many unnecessary gov't programs?? And the dems can only come up w/about .28% reduction in spending??? Yeah, I'll cut my months grocery bill by $.50, same thing.


Wall Street skimmed off enough in one year to hand out $136 Billion in bonuses at the bottom of the Great Recession. I think they handed out another $100+ Billion last year.

If someone found $340 Billion in waste why did the Republicans only come up with $60 Billion? And why are they insisting on giving the oil companies another $4 Billion in welfare?


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

naturelover said:


> Sooo ..... what do y'all think you need to do then? :hrm:
> 
> .


Personally I'm walking the walk now. I help out those in need when and where I can. And am working on changing the political system.

Politically what we need to do is get the government back to its constitutional limits. We can start this by cutting *ALL* of these programs by 5-10% a year for the next 10 years then end them completely.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

fishhead said:


> Wall Street skimmed off enough in one year to hand out $136 Billion in bonuses at the bottom of the Great Recession. I think they handed out another $100+ Billion last year.
> 
> If someone found $340 Billion in waste why did the Republicans only come up with $60 Billion? And why are they insisting on giving the oil companies another $4 Billion in welfare?


I completely agree with you. We need to have a bit of compassion for those with nothing rather than further lining the pockets of the ultra rich.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

There was a thread about welfare reform in the Politics forum not too long ago.

I proposed that we phase out welfare / food stamps / etc over a 5 year period. If you are currently on the rolls, you get job training and GED classes if you are a dropout. Those not currently on the rolls are not allowed on - no new applications.

All SSI / SSD files are to be reviewed. Cases of generational disability (ie bad backs / bad nerves for everyone in the family for 3 generations) would be reviewed by a panel to see if this is legit or a scam. Scammers would be placed into the job training programs with the welfare group.

Legit SSI / SSD cases would be reviewed to determine what contributions that person IS able to make. They would be required to volunteer a certain number of hours (determined by a panel of doctors) doing something within the limits of their disability. For example, my uncle is on SSD because his back is unstable (and its legit), but he could still call the elderly in the community to check in on them...or be trained to answer a suicide/depression/etc hotline from home....or spend up to an hour a day sitting at his computer making flyers for the community or doing other community service work. 

Under the reformed system, even those who are disabled would be helped to find something that they can do - again, within the boundries of their disability - to "earn" their monthly SSI / SSD check. Depending on your disability that may only be an hour or two of work a month, but that's okay.

Kids who receive SSI for their disabilities would get a free pass until they are in their teen years, then they would go before the review panel of doc's to see what volunteer work they can do. 

Only the truly severly disabled (ie those who are non-verbal/severely autistic, traumatic brain injury, etc) would be exempted from the "volunteer to earn your SSI/SSD" program. 

It would take every bit of those 5 probationary years to evaluate everyone on the gov't dole and establish the job training programs. And the gov't would have to stand firm - no exceptions - people would have to KNOW that they were serious and that in 5 years there will be no more free ride courtesy of the American taxpayer.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

mekasmom said:


> I completely agree with you. We need to have a bit of compassion for those with nothing rather than further lining the pockets of the ultra rich.


Considering that its the ultra rich who actually pay for most of government handouts..... I would say their pockets are not being further lined, but rather they are being emptied. This results in factories closing down, job losses and all too often just moving their businesses overseas where they can operate at a profit.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

bluemoonluck said:


> There was a thread about welfare reform in the Politics forum not too long ago.
> 
> I proposed that we phase out welfare / food stamps / etc over a 5 year period. If you are currently on the rolls, you get job training and GED classes if you are a dropout. Those not currently on the rolls are not allowed on - no new applications.
> 
> ...


You are aware of course that there are currently government employees drawing fat checks to determine who is disabled or not, and to determine what jobs people can or cannot do. They arent doing their jobs very well now, so what makes you think hiring more of the same would improve the system?


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## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

I like the job training part. We have people trained and looking for work that can't find it. What jobs would you train them for? Maybe they could become the welfare police.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

If we round up the illegals and send them home, there will be lots of jobs for Americans to fill here in the States. Yeah, they are "hard labor" type of jobs, but if you're not getting gov't $ for sitting at home watching Jersey Shore I'd guess you would have to decide how hungry you are and go from there.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

GrammasCabin said:


> Did any of you see the first part of 60 minutes last night? It was a heartbreaking look into the thousands of homeless school children going to bed hungry in the back seat of the family car. Parked at walmart. Cleaning up for school in the walmart bathroom. These are children of professionals whose parents lost their jobs then homes in the suburbs. I cried through the whole thing. If you can see it online somehow, you should. I'm afraid we have a catastrophe looming while we're pouring billions into other countries who have no use for us. AAARRRGH!


http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7358670n&tag=related;photovideo


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

caroline said:


> I wonder when the so called gov't is going to address this country in a manner that doesn't serve their greed?


Could you expound on this a little bit?

The world is changing. Or, maybe I should say, already has changed.

I feel sorry for your friend... does she not have any family at all? No husband, no children? No one? If not, I feel for her, but folks in these situations (unfortunately) may not survive through the dark days ahead.

ANYONE depending on the government to live, is in for a rude awakening. Whether that be SS, Medicare, Pensions, welfare, food stamps, AFDC, etc., will be on their own...

Do not place all (any?) faith in the govt.

I'm not trying to be mean spirited or anything... just to let you know the paradigm has shifted. Please, if you haven't already, start making arrangements NOW to NOT be in the situation your friend is in... Trust in yourself, not others. Plant an orchard and garden, get your livestock, dig a pond, and try and attain as much self sufficiency as possible.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

fishhead said:


> Wall Street skimmed off enough in one year to hand out $136 Billion in bonuses at the bottom of the Great Recession. I think they handed out another $100+ Billion last year.
> 
> If someone found $340 Billion in waste why did the Republicans only come up with $60 Billion? And why are they insisting on giving the oil companies another $4 Billion in welfare?


So look at the dems, why are they only wanting to give up 6 bill???


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Wall Street skimmed off enough in one year to hand out *$136 Billion *in bonuses at the bottom of the Great Recession. I think they handed out another *$100+* Billion last year.


Wouldn't close to 40% of that come right to the Govt as income tax?


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

fordy said:


> .........................Isn't IT Ironic , that , these TV preachers seem to be focused on promoting their "help the children" donation programs , and ALL the children seem too be over in Africa somewhere ! They must be completely , Blind OR Stupid , or both ! , fordy


I'm thinking the starving kids overseas are actually starving, you know, the swollen bellies and gonna die real soon kind... not the 'starving' kids in America, that are usually obese, and have simply 'food security' issues.



AngieM2 said:


> Are you saying that even with the receiptents bad attitudes "we owe it to them".?
> 
> If that is what you are saying - why, is it "owed" to them?


This is the problem with nationalized welfare... when it was localized, through the church or community, folks with bad attitudes had to either adjust and conform, or move away. No one wants to feed an evil morally despicable human. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. With nationalized welfare, evil can flourish, and be fed regularly.



SquashNut said:


> Quite often I don't even understand what I am saying.


Know what you mean...



megafatcat said:


> +1 to Watcher. The Fed does not have an endless supply of our money to redistribute.


Au contraire, they own the presses, and can always find some walking around money, for their pet projects...



chickenista said:


> It is so sad for your friend and it will be like that for many, many people next year.
> If we took.. say the billions upon billions upon billions that we give to the oil companies.. who have been having the highest profits in recorded history.. billions in take home pay! each year and used it towards the folks, like your friend, that really need help.. that would be nice.
> The money needs to be directed away from greed and more to need..
> And people that don't truly need it should be nice and not take any.. and we should play fair.. and I am completely insane and I do know that none of this will happen..ever.


Alas, Obama hasn't got us into the "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" yet... Oil company profit percentages are some of the lowest of all industries. Now the volume of profits are huge, because they go through huge amounts of product. Now if Oil Company profit percentages were like Google's and other tech companies, then yeah, we'd have a reason for anger.

Btw... Uncle Sam's 'profit' on oil is a lot higher than any oil company... and he doesn't do a blessed thing to earn any of it. Greatest Leech in history!


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

bluemoonluck said:


> If we round up the illegals and send them home, there will be lots of jobs for Americans to fill here in the States. Yeah, they are "hard labor" type of jobs, but if you're not getting gov't $ for sitting at home watching Jersey Shore I'd guess you would have to decide how hungry you are and go from there.



Or just steal what you need. I see that happening first.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Hey, someone had to suffer a hit so those of us in the top 10 percent could keep our Bush tax cuts without driving the nation into insolvency!

I say it's good of the poor to take one for the team.


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## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

bluemoonluck said:


> If we round up the illegals and send them home, there will be lots of jobs for Americans to fill here in the States. Yeah, they are "hard labor" type of jobs, but if you're not getting gov't $ for sitting at home watching Jersey Shore I'd guess you would have to decide how hungry you are and go from there.


 Sounds so simple doesn't it. All of those illegals and their jobs and benefits and all of those pesky,lazy welfare folks. Yeah, they're just going to all move to AZ and start picking lettuce or go and start cleaning motel rooms. Nah, I'll tell you what they will do. They'll be selling drugs to your kids at school and stealing everything that isn't bolted down.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Never said any of this was simple..... just giving my opinion.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

The 60 Minutes video was heartbreaking. My family traveled to Florida a few times per year and spent a lot of time along HWY 192 as we did the usual touristy things. We haven't been back in a coouple of years. The next time that we go back, I will probably be looking at that area with a different lens. It is a shame to see children suffer.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Wouldn't close to 40% of that come right to the Govt as income tax?


No because they have manipulated the tax code through campaign contributions so they only pay 15% capital gains tax I believe.

It's a myth that the pockets of the ultra wealthy are being depleted by welfare. The exact opposite is true. The ultra wealthy are continuing to amass billions at a rapid rate.

The top 400 Americans are worth $1,250,000,000,000. That's 1 1/4 TRILLION DOLLARS in the hands of just 400 people.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Here's some charts that explain what's wrong with our economy.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I see this is from 2006 but I'm sure they haven't lost any ground.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/54/biz_06rich400_The-400-Richest-Americans_land.html


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## Tabitha (Apr 10, 2006)

chamoisee said:


> And they decide who to help- their own come first, and sometimes they only help their own. Their own religion, their own family, their own race, their own type of people, etc. Been there, done that. :stars:


that is quite understandable. I would do the same and help my own family and my own kind first. Just about everybody does. 
there is an old Chinese saying that has a lot of merit imo. If everybody sweeps in front of their own door, the whole street will be clean.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

willow_girl said:


> Hey, someone had to suffer a hit so those of us in the top 10 percent could keep our Bush tax cuts without driving the nation into insolvency!
> 
> I say it's good of the poor to take one for the team.


What I find ironic about the whole thing is how quietly they are trying to get this done. I haven't even heard any official announcement about the programs being cut. The people who use the programs will not find out about it until they go to the offices and try to apply for them(as they do each month). I'm sure SOME of them will not be shy about showing their displeasure so the word will get out then, but when the government does something they consider a good thing they usually announce it with bells and whistles. The fact that they're trying to sneak this out tells me maybe they're not too proud of it.:hrm:


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## VT Chicklit (Mar 22, 2009)

When those on public assistance no longer have cable tv, internet in the home, expensive sneakers and big name clothes, more than one cell phone in the home, access to better quality food than I can afford, government loaded food cards that will buy more than basic food ingredients, new computers etc. . . I will then believe the government is being adequately judicious in the spending of my tax money to help the poor. The government has taken what was a basic "safety net" and turned these programs into a "Sealy Posturepedic mattress". There are those who need help to get them through a rough patch and there are a few who will need life long help due to a real (incapacitating) disability, unfortunately for the American tax payer, many on the dole do not fall into either of these two catagories and should not be receiving our largess. The government uses my (our) tax money to make themselves indispensable to large numbers of the population and thereby insureing their jobs far into the future. 

(sorry for the spelling errors, spell check is on the fritz)


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

VT Chicklit said:


> When those on public assistance no longer have cable tv, internet in the home, expensive sneakers and big name clothes, more than one cell phone in the home, access to better quality food than I can afford, government loaded food cards that will buy more than basic food ingredients, new computers etc. . . I will then believe the government is being adequately judicious in the spending of my tax money to help the poor. The government has taken what was a basic "safety net" and turned these programs into a "Sealy Posturepedic mattress". There are those who need help to get them through a rough patch and there are a few who will need life long help due to a real (incapacitating) disability, unfortunately for the American tax payer, many on the dole do not fall into either of these two catagories and should not be receiving our largess. The government uses my (our) tax money to make themselves indispensable to large numbers of the population and thereby insureing their jobs far into the future.
> 
> (sorry for the spelling errors, spell check is on the fritz)


I had an incident a few months ago that really got my knickers in a knot. We have been scrapping by (lots of chicken leg and thigh quarters, potatoes, rice and the like on our table; if you know what I mean) and I'm standing in the check out line at the store. There's a couple in front of me with at least one kid. Young, healthy looking man and woman. Both with several tattoos the female had a fresh one on the back of her calf, this thing was several colors and as big as my hand so I know it cost a good chunk of change. They have their cart full of stuff then I notice they are paying for their food with MY MONEY. The wife had to restrain me from saying something. I get so ticked off that I bust my hump to scape by while these slugs use MY MONEY to buy food then spend their money on tattoos and the like.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> The fact that they're trying to sneak this out tells me maybe they're not too proud of it


They aren't trying to "sneak" anything, and I don't think anything has been finalized.
Last I heard there were two proposals to cut different amounts.

Don't *assume* that because YOU don't know or haven't heard that no one else has.

This isn't even the first thread about the cuts


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They aren't trying to "sneak" anything, and I don't think anything has been finalized.
> 
> *My wife's job has been "finalized". She has about a week left. I'm not sure which "authority" told you nothing has been finalized, but at the local office they have already told people they won't have a job after next week.*
> 
> ...


*This might be the first one with some firsthand information in it.*


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

fishhead said:


> Wall Street skimmed off enough in one year to hand out $136 Billion in bonuses at the bottom of the Great Recession. I think they handed out another $100+ Billion last year.
> 
> If someone found $340 Billion in waste why did the Republicans only come up with $60 Billion? And why are they insisting on giving the oil companies another $4 Billion in welfare?


Not to make excuses for the "R"s, I'm not one, but I think that report came out a while after their bill was written...not sure why they don't revise it tho...not too happy about news talking about it but I've missed an actual lawmaker saying anything about it.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

texican said:


> I'm thinking the starving kids overseas are actually starving, you know, the swollen bellies and gonna die real soon kind... not the 'starving' kids in America, that are usually obese, and have simply 'food security' issues.
> 
> This is the problem with nationalized welfare... when it was localized, through the church or community, folks with bad attitudes had to either adjust and conform, or move away. No one wants to feed an evil morally despicable human. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. With nationalized welfare, evil can flourish, and be fed regularly.
> 
> ...












With many tnx to Topaz Farm for the icon.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

fishhead said:


> No because they have manipulated the tax code through campaign contributions so they only pay 15% capital gains tax I believe.
> 
> It's a myth that the pockets of the ultra wealthy are being depleted by welfare. The exact opposite is true. The ultra wealthy are continuing to amass billions at a rapid rate.
> 
> The top 400 Americans are worth $1,250,000,000,000. That's 1 1/4 TRILLION DOLLARS in the hands of just 400 people.


Are they doing this illegally? If not, then why are you complaining? 
At what rate are the poor 'ammassing'? 
Seems to me, if I have $100, it will grow if I don't buy beer, netflix, cell phone time, baggy pants, tennis shoes, tvs. If you have $1000, it will grow too, but the % makes it amass more.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

naturelover said:


> Sooo ..... what do y'all think you need to do then? :hrm:
> 
> .


I'm doing my part by ridiculing every dem. 

The fact that Reid, LEADER??? of the senate would get up & speak about the horrors of losing $$$ for a cowboy poet event is appalling. Telling, really-shows just what the dems are all about. 

That and their 'waaahwaaaahwaaaahs' over NPR, ACORN, NEA, Plannned Parenthood-shows where their "hearts" are. (in quotes b/c we know they have NONE)


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> No because they have manipulated the tax code through campaign contributions so they only pay 15% capital gains tax I believe.



A "bonus" is not "capital gains"

It's income


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> This might be the first one with some firsthand information in it.


There's less *actual information *about the details in this thread.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

watcher said:


> I get so ticked off that I bust my hump to scape by while these slugs use MY MONEY to buy food then spend their money on tattoos and the like.


Would it make you feel better if they used their own money to buy food, and spent yours on tattoos and the like?


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

My Dad just emailed me this:

Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I'd do is to get women Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligatures. Then, we'll test recipients for drugs, alcohol, nicotine and document all tattoos and piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get tats and piercings, then get a job.

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks? You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your "home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your own place.

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers and put that money toward the "common good."

*Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realize that all of the above is voluntary.* If you want our money, accept our rules. Before you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self esteem," consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered
self esteem.

If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system rewards them for continuing to make mistakes and bad choices. 

AND while you are on Government subsistence, you no longer can VOTE!
Yes, that is correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will voluntarily remove yourself from the voting rolls while you are receiving a Government welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.


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## chickenslayer (Apr 20, 2010)

bluemoonluck said:


> My Dad just emailed me this:
> 
> Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.
> 
> ...


Outstanding post


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

"realize that all of the above is voluntary"

That sounds nice, but remember the bank bailouts? That was voluntary, too, and yet a LOT of that money was handed out as bonuses to the same executives who "helped" their banks get into trouble. :yuck:


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2011)

bluemoonluck said:


> Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.


Why would you want to penalize those who use their food stamps wisely?


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

ladycat said:


> Why would you want to penalize those who use their food stamps wisely?


I would argue that if you're using your food stamps to buy ho-hos and ding-dongs, you're not using your food stamps wisely. If they're buying basic staples (rice, beans, blocks of real cheese) then they're doing what should be done.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> That was voluntary, too, and yet a LOT of that money was handed out as bonuses to the same executives who "helped" their banks get into trouble.


It was paid because it was part of their contracts, and legally couldn't be withheld.

Also much of that money has been paid back.

You just seem to want to complain without really checking the facts


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Put me in charge of food stamps. I'll pull an Obama and decide its unconstitutional and order my people to stop enforcing it.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It was paid because it was part of their contracts, and legally couldn't be withheld.
> 
> Also much of that money has been paid back.
> 
> You just seem to want to complain without really checking the facts


Thanks for the reminder. Sometimes I forget.


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