# Abscesses



## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

Just noticed today that Ruby (one of my mini donkeys), has an abscess just above her back hoof. 
How do you guys deal with abscesses? Got any tips? What seems to actually work? I've literally never dealt with an abscess before, so I'm open to all suggestions! I'll try and get some pics of it tomorrow or the day after. It's in a really bad spot, and she seems to be really hurting. 
All tips and advice appreciated! Thanks in advance!


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Since nobody who really knows has given you an answer for 9 hrs now, I'll at least give some general adivce-- Absesses need to be drained to heal. Sometimes they pop naturally. Usually they need to be incised. Antibiotics alone won't do the trick. ...

The antomy can be complicated near a joint with compartments and such. I'd hate to see you take your Swiss Army Knife and stab it, only to find you've cut an an imortant tendon or entered a compartment allowing the small infection to spread and becme a disaster...Or there could be a foreign body in there that has to be removed.

If it's bad enough to affect gait, call the vet.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

An abcess is usually inside the hoof, and you call the farrier to pare it out if possible. Then poultice and bandage.
Soaking the hoof in a bucket with warm water and Epsom salts can help soften and drain it.

maybe a picture of what your donkey has going would be helpful If it’s actually above the hoof and not in it.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

I will take pics when I get home later today and post them. It is right above her hoof. And it is affecting her gait, but only because it is above her overgrown hoof. 
Yes I am dealing with the overgrown hoof. 
But the way the hoof grows, it pinches the abscess as she walks. 
She's going in to the vet on the 28th for an ultrasound so I can get the vet to look at her then. But that's a long way away. 
I think there are definitely important arteries in that area, so I don't really want to pop it, but it does have to drain. 
Maybe if I soak it twice a day in warm water and apply iodine to it? Would that help at all?


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## rbelfield (Mar 30, 2015)

if its above her hoof, then it could be an abcess that worked its way to the coronet band. soaking in epson salts is helpful. i have never had to take one to the vet for an abcess..generally once they blow out, the pain is gone. maybe you have something else going on? pics would be helpful.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

rbelfield said:


> if its above her hoof, then it could be an abcess that worked its way to the coronet band. soaking in epson salts is helpful. i have never had to take one to the vet for an abcess..generally once they blow out, the pain is gone. maybe you have something else going on? pics would be helpful.


it could be a gravel but usually it bursts once it makes its way up to the coronary band.
Is there heat in that foot as compared to the others?
I don’t think soaking it would hurt and might help but without seeing it I’d call the vet or at least the farrier. And soon. If it’s an abcess it’s exquisitely painful and no point in making her suffer.


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

doc- said:


> Since nobody who really knows has given you an answer for 9 hrs now, I'll at least give some general adivce-- Absesses need to be drained to heal. Sometimes they pop naturally. Usually they need to be incised. Antibiotics alone won't do the trick. ...
> 
> The antomy can be complicated near a joint with compartments and such. I'd hate to see you take your Swiss Army Knife and stab it, only to find you've cut an an imortant tendon or entered a compartment allowing the small infection to spread and becme a disaster...Or there could be a foreign body in there that has to be removed.
> 
> If it's bad enough to affect gait, call the vet.


Doc comes through again!!! Take the poor thing to a vet or have a large animal vet make a house call. My vet (I was a tech) and I made house calls as we were a large animal clinic as well as pets. This procedure has to be done under sterile conditions...that animal needs to be down when tis is done or you will be injured!!!! Jeez Louise.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

@AbbySmith , are you certain it is an abcess and not some other kind of swelling? What does it look like? Is it in the coronary band?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

@wr @muleskinner2 
Any ideas here?


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

Lisa in WA said:


> @AbbySmith , are you certain it is an abcess and not some other kind of swelling? What does it look like? Is it in the coronary band?


Well, to be completely honest. I've never seen an abscess. I honestly didn't even notice it. My farrier saw it while he was trimming her hoof. He was trimming and said "oh, she's got an abscess here. You see that?" And that was it. So maybe it's something else? I honestly don't know. I tried getting pics last night but it was too dark to see anything. 😕


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## rbelfield (Mar 30, 2015)

if its already blown out, you should just be keeping it clean and dry. if your farrier saw it, its blown out. she shouldnt be having pain unless you have infection going on in it. does it look like a wound, or just a swelling?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

AbbySmith said:


> Well, to be completely honest. I've never seen an abscess. I honestly didn't even notice it. My farrier saw it while he was trimming her hoof. He was trimming and said "oh, she's got an abscess here. You see that?" And that was it. So maybe it's something else? I honestly don't know. I tried getting pics last night but it was too dark to see anything. 😕


Is your farrier an actual horse farrier or more of a cow, goat, whatever trimmer?
i think that if an abcess is above the actual hoof capsule it should have burst. If it was already burst she wouldn’t be in much pain. Either way, it’s odd for a farrier to say that and not suggest something, in my 35 years of experience anyway.
I think you should call the vet. It could be something worse, especially with the overgrown hoof. Has she ever foundered?


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

Lisa in WA said:


> Is your farrier an actual horse farrier or more of a cow, goat, whatever trimmer?
> i think that if an abcess is above the actual hoof capsule it should have burst. If it was already burst she wouldn’t be in much pain. Either way, it’s odd for a farrier to say that and not suggest something, in my 35 years of experience anyway.
> I think you should call the vet. It could be something worse, especially with the overgrown hoof. Has she ever foundered?


This whole thread reminds me of the one of the gal with the neighbors who ignored the No Trespassing signs and tried to get in her house, etc. etc. ad nauseam awhile ago...


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

stars at night said:


> This whole thread reminds me of the one of the gal with the neighbors who ignored the No Trespassing signs and tried to get in her house, etc. etc. ad nauseam awhile ago...


I think Abby is very young.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

Okay, here are some pictures, and to answer some of your questions:
My farrier is a legit farrier. This is his job. He doesn't do anything else. I switched from my old farrier cause he's actually really good!
I do not know if she has foundered before. The previous owner was very vague and it was a very big ordeal to get them in the first place so I don't know much about them.
I am young, I'm only 16.
Oh, and the reason she has the overgrown hoof. Is because she pulled the tendons in her pastern and now she has loosened the ligaments in her leg. Causing the coffin bone to sink down into the hoof. According to my vet anyways, the previous owner said it was because of negligence of the owner before her. Which doesn't make much sense.

Anyhow, here are some pictures. They're not the best. I did my best though, she doesn't like it when I touch it. And I don't have anyone to hold her for me, so...whatever!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

If the coffin bone is sunk into the foot that sounds like she might have foundered Badly in the past.The pics look like an abcess might have blown out. Is there and heat there when you touch it as compared to her other front foot? Is she hugely lame, like not putting any weight on it, or just mildly lame?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

One of our old mods and member here (Tiempo) is a farrier and has donkeys. I just sent her a message and hopefully she can look in.


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## rbelfield (Mar 30, 2015)

do you have xrays to confirm the rotation of the coffin bone? i honestly think her feet look really good for a donkey. just looks like an abcess that blew out the top. can you take her temp? that could show you if she is fighting an infection.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

Her leg is not hot or swollen. I can't take her temp, I don't have a thermometer. 
Vet said that the coffin bone sunk because of stress on the tendons (ie, tripped on a root, leg went down a hole, etc.) 
She is usually mildly lame on that foot because it's overgrown. But she is still putting some weight on it. I feel like the main reason it's hurting so bad is because when she walks, the way her hoof is, the abscess pinches when she puts weight on it. 
And I don't have x-rays of her leg/hoof.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

A thermometer is one thing you should have on hand and luckily they don’t cost much.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

Dad might have one in the cupboard for the other critters. I should take a look.


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## rbelfield (Mar 30, 2015)

there is no way to know that her coffin bone is "sunk" without an xray.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

I'm just repeating what the vet told me. I have zero experience with anything like that.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

If she's usually somewhat uncomfortable, you really need to have your vet have another look. She may have foundered again.

I'm not quite understanding the overgrown hoof. I find anything that's been foundered needs really consistent trims. 

When I check for heat, I seldom look for a thermometer and simply feel above and below the spot that concerns me. Does the area around the coronet band feel the same temperature as the shoulder, knee and further down? 

I soak in warm water and epson salts if I'm concerned and because it's a benign approach that has no negative side effects. 

Are you cleaning hooves daily? Thrush will cause a great deal of discomfort and happens quite often to anything with a misshapen hoof if the ground is moist. My mare would catch it ever spring and while treatment is fairly simple, it does require care. 

You should be restricting her access to lush grass if she's been foundered before. 

My other concern makes me 'that' person again. If you're having trouble with her feet, this is not something that should be bred. The additional weight she will carry late term may very well make a bad situation worse. At the very least, she will be quite uncomfortable near the end of her pregnancy and I don't feel it's fair to compromise her health because you want a cute baby.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

wr said:


> If she's usually somewhat uncomfortable, you really need to have your vet have another look. She may have foundered again.
> 
> I'm not quite understanding the overgrown hoof. I find anything that's been foundered needs really consistent trims.
> 
> ...


 ^^^^ Wise words.

Please soak her foot if you are able. It'll also clean the area so you'll be able to see what's going on with that area better. Warm water is soothing so she might not make a fuss once you get her leg in the bucket. Please do not use iodine. Betadine is a topical antiseptic that'll work instead or even Blu-Kote, (Gentian Violet) that's an antiseptic, germicide and fungicide. Neither will sting like iodine.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

Okay, I do appreciate all of your help! I really do! Lemme just clear a couple things up...


wr said:


> If she's usually somewhat uncomfortable, you really need to have your vet have another look. She may have foundered again.


She was checked by the vet a month ago, and I'm going to have the vet take another look at her on the 28th. See if anything's changed. I can't get her in before then, that's the first available appointment dad can drive them in for.


wr said:


> When I check for heat, I seldom look for a thermometer and simply feel above and below the spot that concerns me. Does the area around the coronet band feel the same temperature as the shoulder, knee and further down?


That is what I have been taught, so that's what I did. And no, no heat at all. And no swelling (compared to the other leg)


wr said:


> Are you cleaning hooves daily? Thrush will cause a great deal of discomfort and happens quite often to anything with a misshapen hoof if the ground is moist. My mare would catch it ever spring and while treatment is fairly simple, it does require care.


I am. Just not that hoof. It's overgrown and so there isn't anything to clean underneath the foot. it is just overgrown hoof. Sometimes I lift it just for practice for the farrier. But that's about it. And the ground is not moist at all. They are in a shed so no rain gets in, it's just a dirt floor.


wr said:


> You should be restricting her access to lush grass if she's been foundered before.


Yep. They are in a pen with zero grass, they get about 2lbs of hay twice a day. So 4 pounds a day. In slow feed hay bags.


wr said:


> My other concern makes me 'that' person again. If you're having trouble with her feet, this is not something that should be bred. The additional weight she will carry late term may very well make a bad situation worse. At the very least, she will be quite uncomfortable near the end of her pregnancy and I don't feel it's fair to compromise her health because you want a cute baby.


I do understand that. And I thought about that as well. It will be another year before she foals out, and the farrier should be able to get her feeling better by then.


Wolf mom said:


> Please soak her foot if you are able. It'll also clean the area so you'll be able to see what's going on with that area better. Warm water is soothing so she might not make a fuss once you get her leg in the bucket. Please do not use iodine. Betadine is a topical antiseptic that'll work instead or even Blu-Kote, (Gentian Violet) that's an antiseptic, germicide and fungicide. Neither will sting like iodine.


I will try! You guys need to know that she is not the most well behaved donkey in the world. We have come a long long ways, but she still needs a lot of work. I will try and soak it tonight though.

This is the pen she's in...


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Has your vet actually taken images of the coffin bone? There is nothing that can be done without knowing exactly what the problem is.

Your determination to breed without knowing if she can remain sound or comfortable, so you can have a cute baby verges on animal abuse.

No responsible stockman would ever put their wants ahead of the wellbeing of their livestock.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I thought you had decided not to breed them and were planning on getting a riding horse.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> I thought you had decided not to breed them and were planning on getting a riding horse.


No, she decided to keep the donkeys and wait on the horse.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> No, she decided to keep the donkeys and wait on the horse.


That’s too bad. Wr is right. It’s irresponsible to breed a donkey that is lame.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

If your donk is a foodie, soaking her foot in a bucket may be easier if she's distracted by her food.

Keep trying - there's lots of good advice here.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> No, she decided to keep the donkeys and wait on the horse.


Wouldn't it be more comfortable to wait inside on an easy chair?


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

doc- said:


> Wouldn't it be more comfortable to wait inside on an easy chair?


For the donkey or her?...


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

Wolf mom said:


> If your donk is a foodie, soaking her foot in a bucket may be easier if she's distracted by her food.
> 
> Keep trying - there's lots of good advice here.


She does love her food! I guess I can try when I feed her next. I don't want to give her anything extra cause I'm trying to get her to lose wight right now. But good idea! Thank you!!


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

doc- said:


> Wouldn't it be more comfortable to wait inside on an easy chair?


The only thing I am going to say about this is that I am not 'waiting' for the horse to 'come' to me. I am waiting until I have the money to buy one and support one. I was going to sell the donkeys to buy a horse, but I decided to keep the donkeys cause I wasn't sure where they would end up, and if they would continue with getting Ruby's hoof better. I care about the girls, and wanted to make sure they have a good safe home with me. Even though a horse has been my lifelong dream, I have put it aside to care for the animals I have already commited to. I am not sitting inside complaining to daddy so that he will eventually buy me a horse. I am outside every day, taking care of the donkeys, and all the other animals. I am working as often as I can and saving up all the money that I can. I volunteer at an animal rescue and am learning all I can about horses and the care for one. I am solely responsible for the donkeys. Farrier, vet, feed, grooming, halter, checking them daily, grooming them daily, washing out water buckets, buying hay nets, etc, etc. And I plan to be responsible for my horse as well. Eventhough there is nothing in the world I would love more, than the opportunity to buy one of the horses at the rescue right now, I'm not going to, because I know she's not what I need, and it would be unfair to her. Even though she means the world to me, she deserves a better home. Just one of the many things I have given up to be able to have my own horse one day.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> That’s too bad. Wr is right. It’s irresponsible to breed a donkey that is lame.


My old girl had what I considered the ultimate pedigree and as close to perfect conformation one could possibly have. Although she was never lame,I refused to breed her because I had too many concerns about how a pregnancy would affect her. 

Under ideal circumstances, so much nutrition goes into the foal that hooves need extra care and there is no true way to predict how hormonal changes would affect an already affected coffin bone. 

I will say that any equine that's been affected by laminitis needs more frequent hoof care than normal. She absolutely could not wait longer than 4 weeks to see a farrier, 3 would have been ideal but 6 was courting disaster. 

I absolutely wouldn't buy something like her again but she was otherwise perfect for perfect horse for the test pilot and she more than earned the extra care she required.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

@AbbySmith, you just can't get some people to understand what you are saying when they already have judged what you are doing.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

So true!! I'm not trying to make it sound like every one has to agree with what I'm doing. I know some people are going to think I am doing it wrong. I just want them to see where I'm coming from, and how much I actually have given up to be able to keep these donkeys. If I 'abused' animals, I would have sold them by now and not cared where they end up. I would have saved my money for a horse, and not been paying for the farrier every 4weeks. But I do care about them, so I have kept them, and put my dreams to the side. But I can still work towards them without waiting for daddy to make things better! Because believe me, 'daddy' is the only reason I don't already have a horse 😅😂


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AbbySmith said:


> So true!! I'm not trying to make it sound like every one has to agree with what I'm doing. I know some people are going to think I am doing it wrong. I just want them to see where I'm coming from, and how much I actually have given up to be able to keep these donkeys. If I 'abused' animals, I would have sold them by now and not cared where they end up. I would have saved my money for a horse, and not been paying for the farrier every 4weeks. But I do care about them, so I have kept them, and put my dreams to the side. But I can still work towards them without waiting for daddy to make things better! Because believe me, 'daddy' is the only reason I don't already have a horse 😅😂


There is a great deal of misinformation in your definition of abuse but I do understand your desire to gravitate toward opinions that mirror your own. 

Nobody has ever indicated that you aren't trying to do things right but I firmly stand by my statement that you need to ensure you can permanently clear up the lameness before you breed and cause an animal to live in pain to meet your desire for a cute baby. 

Letting any animal remain in pain long term is abuse, even if it is back by good intentions.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

So I sent some pictures of her hoof to the vet the other day. Vet says that the abscess has popped, and it blew up through the coronary band. Which is good I guess in most circumstances. But since the abscess is on the one overgrown hoof, the hoof pinches it as she walks :/ So she lays down a lot which isn't good. It would be so much easier if it had been on any of the other hooves, but of course it had to be that one.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

What treatment?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

AbbySmith said:


> So I sent some pictures of her hoof to the vet the other day. Vet says that the abscess has popped, and it blew up through the coronary band. Which is good I guess in most circumstances. But since the abscess is on the one overgrown hoof, the hoof pinches it as she walks :/ So she lays down a lot which isn't good. It would be so much easier if it had been on any of the other hooves, but of course it had to be that one.


How is just one hoof ”overgrown”?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> How is just one hoof ”overgrown”?


It's in another thread, it was that way when she acquired the donkeys.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

Lisa in WA said:


> How is just one hoof ”overgrown”?


I explained it earlier on. It was like that when I bought her. My farrier us fixing it.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

This may have some information for you.



> While reading the book ‘Perfect Partners by Kelly Marks (an excellent book by the way) I was struck by a very true statement she made…. “Well meaning is not the same as well being for the horse”.
> 
> One of the ways we tend to show good care for our horse is to provide plenty of feed. Unfortunately this over-caring can be cruel to a horse or pony especially in spring and early summer when grasses are high in sugar.
> 
> Our equines (that includes donkeys and mules) often have to endure the pain of a hoof abscess caused by too much rich grass, and can be affected even if they don’t appear to be overweight. These photos show the various stages of an abscess which in the beginning can cause three-legged lameness before it bursts through soft tissue.























> The pain the horse endures at this stage is similar to when you hit your thumb with a hammer and the swelling and blood is trapped under your thumbnail.
> 
> Eventually the pus and serum are forced from the internal hoof structures and come out through the coronet band or heel bulb areas.













> An abscess that has burst through the coronary band.
> Sometimes a milder abscess is not even evident in a horse not exercised regularly, only showing up when the hoof trimmer discovers a rotting hole in the sole or hoof wall.
> 
> https://naturalhorseworld.com/hoof-abscess/#:~:text=A hoof abscess can be a warning sign,or treats but this can cause more problems.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Danaus29 said:


> @AbbySmith, you just can't get some people to understand what you are saying when they already have judged what you are doing.


You are misinformed. The problem is that even if someone is young, they still need to learn. She has mentioned a couple times that one or both of the donks are not sound and lameness indicates something hurts.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

wr said:


> You are misinformed. The problem is that even if someone is young, they still need to learn. She has mentioned a couple times that one or both of the donks are not sound and lameness indicates something hurts.


You weren't listening to some of what was said. The abcess was a new development after the missed attempt at breeding. The group scolding was given after the missed attempt at breeding. Granted, the overgrown hoof should have been corrected before breeding but that apparently happened before the poster visited ht.

Education is one thing. Continually chastising a poster for past mistakes is not education.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

The scolding comes from her firm statement that she is bringing a Jack for a play date.

The soundness issue is longstanding and no cure in sight. Lameness indicates pain, pain will increase with additional weight and if laminitis is involved, the shift of nutrients to the foals, will make a bad thing worse.

Continual laying down is extremely dangerous for equines and can result in pneumonia or cause sever muscle atrophy.

I fully understand the mistakes of others but consciously doing the same is unwise under these circumstances.

I have have about 50 years experience and have strongly suggested verifying that the hoof problem can be corrected and the animal made sound before breeding.

Please explain why you feel breeding her with a significant health issue is urgent or wise? It’s my understanding she’s approximately 5 years old, so there is plenty of time to make sure she well enough to breed safely. Wouldn’t you agree?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

It was my understanding that after the first breeding didn't take, she had decided to wait to breed the one with the problem hoof after hearing the advice from knowledgeble and experienced people on this board. I agree that it would not be wise to breed that particular animal while it is undergoing treatment for the hoof problem.

The donkey with the hoof issues should be evaluated by a vet to see if it is sound enough to withstand the extra stress that would occur if a pregnancy was allowed to happen. That was brought to the op's attention. From what I have read, she has dropped, for now, the issue of breeding the donkeys.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

@AbbySmith
Have both donks been bred including the lame one?
Is the stud in with them?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> @AbbySmith
> Have both donks been bred including the lame one?
> Is the stud in with them?


The last I heard, he was comming over for a 'play date.'


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Abbey, please set the record straight. Are you still planning on breeding the donkey with the foot problem before the foot is healed?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wr said:


> The last I heard, he was comming over for a 'play date.'


That’s what I heard too.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Living The Life on A Farm


Hey y'all! Thought I'd start a journal here to record everything I am doing lately! In this journal I'm gonna post about my donkeys and progress that we are making together, my time at the animal rescue, and whatever else I want to tell you guys about lol! And don't worry, I take way too many...




www.homesteadingtoday.com





And the stud was referenced again two weeks ago.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

The stud was brought here 3 weeks ago. He was with the girls for 2 weeks before I brought him back last Sunday.
He was with the both of the donkeys at separate times, they go in for ultrasounds on the 28th of July so I will see who is bred then.
I did have him with the one with the overgrown hoof, because I had thought that my farrier would be able to fix it. As of today, I realize that it probably wasn't the best decision, even though my farrier should have her fixed up by the time she gets further along, I realize now that I should have waited until she was better to begin the breeding process. There is nothing I can do about it now, and that is why I have not responded to a lot of things on this thread.
I have made my decision, I realize a lot of you think it was a bad one, but there is nothing I can do about it now.
If the donks turn out to not be bred, I will not be trying to rebreed them. Possibly the one with good hooves, but definitely not the other.
I'm not even sure if I would breed one, I may just keep them, or sell them. I don't know yet. I will decided after the 28th.
Also, my vet and my farrier both knew that I was going to breed her, and neither of them said anything. I feel like if it was as big of a deal as you guys have made it, they would have at least said something. I do realize that it was not a smart decision, and I get where you guys are coming from. I really do. And I have taken it all into account by deciding I won't try and rebreed her. As of right now, there is nothing I can do about it.
Any more questions?


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

AbbySmith said:


> The stud was brought here 3 weeks ago.


Pet peeve.

Please forgive me for being a nit picker, however, a stud is a male horse and a jack or jackass is a male donkey.

https://researchmaniacs.com/Animals/Male/What-is-a-male-Donkey-called.html

Unless you were going for hinnies and were actually employing a stud to accomplish that end. 



> A ‘mule’ is a widely used term is the offspring of a male donkey (a jack) and a female horse (a mare).
> 
> A ‘hinny’ does not refer to a donkey or an ass either. It is the hybrid between a female donkey (a jenny) and a male horse (stallion). Genealogically, it is more difficult to reproduce a hinny in comparison to a mule.
> 
> What is the Difference Between a Donkey, a Mule and an Ass?


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

Ok. That is good to know! Honestly. 
I've just always used the term 'stud' for any male animal used to breed a female. Doesn't matter the animal. But good to know! 👍


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AbbySmith said:


> The stud was brought here 3 weeks ago. He was with the girls for 2 weeks before I brought him back last Sunday.
> He was with the both of the donkeys at separate times, they go in for ultrasounds on the 28th of July so I will see who is bred then.
> I did have him with the one with the overgrown hoof, because I had thought that my farrier would be able to fix it. As of today, I realize that it probably wasn't the best decision, even though my farrier should have her fixed up by the time she gets further along, I realize now that I should have waited until she was better to begin the breeding process. There is nothing I can do about it now, and that is why I have not responded to a lot of things on this thread.
> I have made my decision, I realize a lot of you think it was a bad one, but there is nothing I can do about it now.
> ...


There are ways to correct you poor decision but I don’t get the impression you would be interested.

I also don’t get the impression you are consulting with your vet or your farrier to the degree you should. Perhaps you aren’t experienced enough to know what questions to ask or maybe you aren’t comfortable asking.

You need to know the cause of the abscess so you can be sure it’s resolved. You need to know what causes the overgrown hoof in order to know what her long term prognosis is.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

@AbbySmith 
How old are you?
Not asking in a mean way…just wondering.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Danaus29 said:


> You weren't listening to some of what was said. The abcess was a new development after the missed attempt at breeding. The group scolding was given after the missed attempt at breeding. Granted, the overgrown hoof should have been corrected before breeding but that apparently happened before the poster visited ht.
> 
> Education is one thing. Continually chastising a poster for past mistakes is not education.


I'm actually waiting for your response on this one because you chastised me when you ignored critical information. 

The jack was returned for another 'play date', which means she could very well could be bred and another UT has been scheduled to confirm. 

At this time, shes uncomfortable enough that her owner indicates she's laying down a lot, which puts her at risk for pneumonia or worse and between hormonal changes and additional weight on the hoof, there could be greater damage. 

My dissention is because I really don't want to see a young girl put in the position where she may have to euthanize a beloved animal. Perhaps you share your thoughts and expertise because it seems like an awful harsh lesson for any young person.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

wr said:


> At this time, shes uncomfortable enough that her owner indicates she's laying down a lot, which puts her at risk for pneumonia or worse and between hormonal changes and additional weight on the hoof, there could be greater damage.


I just want to clarify here that her abscess is healing. I am not overly concerned about it at this point. She is not laying down as much as she was, and she is back to her normal self. She was a really good girl last night, and she let me handle it. It seems to be doing much much better now, and I'm going to have the vet take a look at it as well, when I bring them in.

@Lisa in WA I am 16.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Not everyone posts all the relevant information. She had said the donkeys were under the care of a vet and a farrier. Both professionals did not advise against breeding. Supposedly thd vet knows more about all that has been going on with the donkeys than those who have half the information.

Abbey, did you notice the abscess before or after the 2nd breeding attempt?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Danaus29 said:


> Not everyone posts all the relevant information. She had said the donkeys were under the care of a vet and a farrier. Both professionals did not advise against breeding. Supposedly thd vet knows more about all that has been going on with the donkeys than those who have half the information.
> 
> Abbey, did you notice the abscess before or after the 2nd breeding attempt?


The lameness predates the second breeding attempt and it's my understanding goes back to the time when she purchased the animal with at least one overgrown hoof, that looks a lot like laminitis. 

I'm not sure that she consulted with the vet about the wisdom of breeding and I'm not sure the vet is offering much beyond quick fix solutions or there would have been x-rays of the hoof to identify the position of the coffin bone.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Yes, the hoof issue was there before the first attempt.

Was a vet consulted before the first attempt? I don't know. The vet who did the ultrasound should have brought up the hoof issue then.

If the vet said something about not breeding the one with the hoof problem and the op did it anyway, chastisement is warranted. 

And now after reading all the posted information, I should hope the op does not consider breeding the one with the hoof issue again without having it looked at more closely.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

The overgrown hoof was there when I bought her, she had it during the first and second breeding. Both my vet and my farrier have told me that xrays are not necessary. I have asked them both about it. There is a surgery I could do to fix the hoof, but it is 5k, and not a guaranteed fix. Since I don't have the money, it's not an option. The vet said that with continual trimming, the pastern ligaments may heal. So that is what I am doing. I have the farrier trimming her every 4 weeks, and she is on restricted feed. It is not laminitis, or founder, all, or at least one other, hoof would also be overgrown if that were the case. 
Both the vet and farrier have confirmed that.
The abscess appeared after the second breeding. The day before the stud returned. It is now healing, and she is putting weight on it, and letting me touch it. The vet will take a look on it on the 28th though, to make sure I'm not missing anything.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Danaus29 said:


> Yes, the hoof issue was there before the first attempt.
> 
> Was a vet consulted before the first attempt? I don't know. The vet who did the ultrasound should have brought up the hoof issue then.
> 
> ...


A vet isn't going to advise against breeding unless you ask about it or at least mention it's part of the plan. 

Another concern is that if this isn't a case of laminitis, there is a chance that another backyard breeder is passing on weak genetics for somebody else to deal with.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

wr said:


> A vet isn't going to advise against breeding unless you ask about it or at least mention it's part of the plan.


She did know I was breeding her. She still did not advise against it. As did my farrier. I talked to them both about it. Neither said anything to me about it.


wr said:


> Another concern is that if this isn't a case of laminitis, there is a chance that another backyard breeder is passing on weak genetics for somebody else to deal with.


Her overgrown hoof is NOT genetics! I don't know how many times I have to say this, but it is because she has loosened the ligaments in her pastern. We do not know how. Could have been from tripping over a root, falling in a hole, or kicking out at something. This caused the pastern ligaments to loosen, the coffin bone to sink down into the hoof, and the hoof to grow weirdly because it knows something is wrong. It is not hereditary, and will not be passed on to the baby.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

Okay. I can understand people warning me, and telling me their opinion on my actions. But that was just rude. Sorry, but it was.
You don't know anything about me. Only what I have told you about the donkeys, and what everyone else has said, and assumed about me. You have assumed that I am a 'stupid teenager'. Maybe I am, but I don't think so. That may sound like I'm full of myself, but I'm not. 
Plus, my dad was right there with me the whole time. He had to drive the donkeys in. If the vet really thought I was a 'stupid ol' teenager' she could have told my dad not to breed them. If she was uncomfortable saying anything to him in front of me, she had plenty of time to do it while I was loading the donkeys in the trailer. 
I realize now that it wasn't smart to breed Ruby. I have said that a thousand times. I feel like I literally just keep repeating myself, and no one is listening to what I'm saying.
Yes I am young. Yes you might think I am 'irresponsible' and an 'animal abuser'. But if you knew _anything_ about who I really am, you wouldn't say anything like that. Everyone that _actually_ know me, says I have a special love, and passion for animals. I would never do anything to hurt them, and I do listen to what people tell me. That is why I bred the girls in the first place. My dad told me it would be a good idea. I know realize that it was stupid, and I have already said that I won't be breeding her again if she didn't take this time.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AbbySmith said:


> Okay. I can understand people warning me, and telling me their opinion on my actions. But that was just rude. Sorry, but it was.
> You don't know anything about me. Only what I have told you about the donkeys, and what everyone else has said, and assumed about me. You have assumed that I am a 'stupid teenager'. Maybe I am, but I don't think so. That may sound like I'm full of myself, but I'm not.
> Plus, my dad was right there with me the whole time. He had to drive the donkeys in. If the vet really thought I was a 'stupid ol' teenager' she could have told my dad not to breed them. If she was uncomfortable saying anything to him in front of me, she had plenty of time to do it while I was loading the donkeys in the trailer.
> I realize now that it wasn't smart to breed Ruby. I have said that a thousand times. I feel like I literally just keep repeating myself, and no one is listening to what I'm saying.
> Yes I am young. Yes you might think I am 'irresponsible' and an 'animal abuser'. But if you knew _anything_ about who I really am, you wouldn't say anything like that. Everyone that _actually_ know me, says I have a special love, and passion for animals. I would never do anything to hurt them, and I do listen to what people tell me. That is why I bred the girls in the first place. My dad told me it would be a good idea. I know realize that it was stupid, and I have already said that I won't be breeding her again if she didn't take this time.


At the end of the day, they are your animals, you can do what you want with them and would encourage you to realize that you have two options. You can learn from the experience of others or you can do exactly what you're doing now. Do what you feel is best for you and learn from the mistakes you make. Sometimes it will turn out well and sometimes it will be very costly. Somebody should have helped you make your first purchase so you could have avoided unsound animals but that's the start of the learning process. 

I don't think you're stupid but I do believe you are willful and assume that passion is all you need. I hope your experience is a good one but the biggest thing that turns young people away from their passion for animals is cost, painful learning curves.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Something that turns young people away from asking for advice is people being nasty and mean without giving helpful advice. There are posters who jump all over those who make mistakes or jump into a project without looking. They forget they might have made those same mistakes themselves.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> Something that turns young people away from asking for advice is people being nasty and mean without giving helpful advice. There are posters who jump all over those who make mistakes or jump into a project without looking. They forget they might have made those same mistakes themselves.


I’ve only seen one poster here be mean in any way. And that post appears to have been deleted. 
is there something I’m missing?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

It was a general statement, not necessarily relating to incidents in this thread. I have seen it in other threads.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Danaus29 said:


> It was a general statement, not necessarily relating to incidents in this thread. I have seen it in other threads.


Unfortunately, your sentiment is what has chased off a lot of our most experienced members.

They also thought that if someone asks for advice, they actually wanted advice.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Not appreciating nastiness is chasing away older members?

Gee, I thought it was the bickering and heated debates resulting in a slew of banned posters that lost a lot of members. The general board changes cost the site quite a few members. A good number of our most experienced posters has passed away just recently too. Are you suggesting that my sentiment against general nastiness had something to do with all that?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Danaus29 said:


> Not appreciating nastiness is chasing away older members?
> 
> Gee, I thought it was the bickering and heated debates resulting in a slew of banned posters that lost a lot of members. The general board changes cost the site quite a few members. A good number of our most experienced posters has passed away just recently too. Are you suggesting that my sentiment against general nastiness had something to do with all that?


No, I'm not and there was no bickering but there was one out of line comment, which I deleted before it was even reported. 

What I am saying is that those of us with experience, that you're chastising were actually trying to avoid seeing a young member have to euthanize a beloved pet and now that you have there is a strong chance, nobody is going to step of that ledge again.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

wr said:


> Unfortunately, your sentiment is what has chased off a lot of our most experienced members.
> 
> They also thought that if someone asks for advice, they actually wanted advice.


First of all, my post was written between the time that post was made and when it was deleted.
Second, in this thread, the deed was done before this thread was posted. 
Third, you stated that objections to nastiness chased off older, more experienced members. That is not true.
Fourth, I don't want her donkey to have additional problems either. If it was mine I would not have bred her until the hoof issue was cleared up. I would not have bred either of them until they had been tamed down enough to be handled.
Fifth, reading this thread to that point as it is now, I would not have posted what was there. Feel free to delete it and all my responses in this thread if you wish.

AbbeySmith, I know you are anxious to have baby donkeys but I hope this breeding didn't take either. You need to get the hoof problem resolved and the donkeys need to tolerate being handled more.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

Danaus29 said:


> You need to get the hoof problem resolved and the donkeys need to tolerate being handled more.


Yes. I know. The farrier is coming out in the next week or so and will have another look at her. And they go in to the vet on Wed, so she will look at them too.
As for them having to be more 'handleable'. Where exactly did you get the idea that they weren't? Not being rude here. Just genuinely curious. They weren't when I got them, but they are very well behaved now. I have no problem handling them. Minus leading, but we're still working on that.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Didn't you say they were good for you but not necessarily other people? I know you said the one didn't like you messing with her foot, but it may be just that foot. Sorry if I misunderstood. I know you have been working hard to get them to allow you to touch and groom them. 

Do you have halters that fit them? Leading is a big part of handling. They might get a bit overprotective if they have babies and you don't want them trying to push you away from a baby that needs attention from you or a vet. It's hard to teach them to be led without proper halters.

Do they let you brush and groom them? Not just their backs but down their legs and through the tail?

Some animals get a little weird during pregnancy, delivery and when the babies are very young. I know donkeys have been having babies for thousands of years. Most of the time without any problem. But I also know how difficult it is to stand by and not be able to get near a first time mama that is skittish but needs help. If they are halter trained you would at least be able to tie them if necessary.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

Danaus29 said:


> Didn't you say they were good for you but not necessarily other people?


Yes and no. If the person handling them actually knows what they're doing, they're good for them. Not saying that I know everything that I'm doing! I know I definitely do not. But they are used to the way I teach them. For example, they are really good for the farrier and have no problem with him! He can lift their hooves, trim them, rasp them, no problem! My brother goes to just touch their feet, and uh-uh. They can tell that he's nervous of being kicked or something, and won't let him.


Danaus29 said:


> the one didn't like you messing with her foot


That was just when the abscess was still being a problem for her. And I worked with her a bit, and she was letting me touch it eventhough it hurt. And she's back to normal now. No problems there.


Danaus29 said:


> Do you have halters that fit them?


Yep! They each have their own halter, and leads.


Danaus29 said:


> Do they let you brush and groom them? Not just their backs but down their legs and through the tail?


Yes! They are very very good for grooming! I usually groom them at least 4 times a week, usually more. They are super good for it. I don't have to tie them up or anything, I can brush them pretty much anywhere I want, down the legs, on the face, under the belly, etc. 


Danaus29 said:


> If they are halter trained you would at least be able to tie them if necessary.


Yes they are completely halter broke. Zero problem there. They are actually really good for the halters. And I have tied them up a lot to get them used to it, and they have no problem with it.

Also, I'm going to be locking them up in a smaller pen before they foal out. Right now they are in a 15x30ft pen. Usually they are out in a 20 acre field (I can still get halter on them, and groom them, and lift their feet in the field). So I'll lock them up probably by month 11 or 12? I think anyways! I still have a ton to figure out!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AbbySmith said:


> Also, I'm going to be locking them up in a smaller pen before they foal out. Right now they are in a 15x30ft pen. Usually they are out in a 20 acre field (I can still get halter on them, and groom them, and lift their feet in the field). So I'll lock them up probably by month 11 or 12? I think anyways! I still have a ton to figure out!


Locking them in a small pen isn't always a great idea. 

Lack of exercise can cause delivery problems, equines don't actually like being watched when they deliver, which is why most breeders use cameras and in the last term most of the nutrients are going to the baby so no exercise and a fat baby often lead to big vet bills.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Abby, if you actually want opinions from experienced people about your animals, you’re going to have to develop a little thicker skin. Horse folks as a group don’t tend to sugar coat things, Equines are too big, too fast, too expensive, too dangerous and too breakable to behave like you’re housebreaking a puppy.
If you want the older ladies who will pet you and coo over your pictures then you’re best off on Countryside Families.
But if you really want advice from seasoned horsemen, post here and don’t get your feelings hurt.
Wr really knows her stuff. She’s learned it over a lifetime.
And folks who really don’t know what they’re talking about should probably stay in their own lane.
Abby is 16 and wants to do right by her critters.
She can handle tough advice and doesn’t need protectors.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

You have a lot of experienced people willing to help you. Please take their advice. Don't let the nasty posts turn you away. The vast majority of the people here are sincerely concerned about helping you and your animals.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

That is a good point! I am going to lock them up though. Because we have a _huge_ issue with crows here. We lambed out 150+ lambs every year, and the crows would come down and eat the lambs eyes/butts as they were being born. So we had to lock them up and lamb in Januaury to keep them away from the crows. So I would be worried about that with the donkeys.
I would like to leave them out. I'm hoping that I will be able to find a pen kind of inbetween sizes. Only problem there is that we don't really have any dry pasture. Only lush grass pasture, or dirt floors in the barn. So they are in the barn right now on slow feed hay nets so they can loose some weight. 
I could set up an area near the house, right under by bedroom window for them. I can just set up the moveable electric mesh. They are used to it. My only worry there would be that they would eat too much grass and become obese, or that if they touched the fence, would that affect the baby?
Do you think it would be beneficial to like lock them up over night in the 15x30ft pen with no food, or maybe just some straw? And then let them out on pasture between like 12pm-7pm? 
Only thing there is that then overnight when they'd be most likely to pop, they would be in the barn. I could get a camera for them so maybe that won't be a problem. I know I'll be checking on them 2-3 times a night when they get close, I just don't want anything to happen to them. Your thoughts on all of this?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I've never found crows to be a problem but coyotes and the rez dogs are so I kept a Longhorn cow and her calf in the same pasture with the broodmares and checked them once a day. 

They really don't like being crowded when in labour and as long as they're in good health, things take care of themselves. I do prefer to calve and foal on grass rather than dirty pens. 

If you're nervous, let them out for exercise during the day and pen them at night but don't crowd them too much.


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## AbbySmith (Apr 23, 2021)

wr said:


> I've never found crows to be a problem but coyotes and the rez dogs are so I kept a Longhorn cow and her calf in the same pasture with the broodmares and checked them once a day.


Yeah, we're the total opposite lol! I would love to keep them out, but it's just not an option right now. It might not be a problem by next year. We have sold all the sheep, so maybe they have learned to move on? I don't know. I guess we'll see next year!


wr said:


> I do prefer to calve and foal on grass rather than dirty pens.


I could lock them in another pen with a thick hay/straw/shavings bed, instead of just dirt.


wr said:


> If you're nervous, let them out for exercise during the day and pen them at night but don't crowd them too much.


I think that's what I'll end up doing. Just take things nice and slow. I don't want anyone getting hurt. I'll start getting them used to things as soon as possible so they get used to routine, and aren't as stressed later on.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AbbySmith said:


> Yeah, we're the total opposite lol! I would love to keep them out, but it's just not an option right now. It might not be a problem by next year. We have sold all the sheep, so maybe they have learned to move on? I don't know. I guess we'll see next year!
> 
> I could lock them in another pen with a thick hay/straw/shavings bed, instead of just dirt.
> 
> I think that's what I'll end up doing. Just take things nice and slow. I don't want anyone getting hurt. I'll start getting them used to things as soon as possible so they get used to routine, and aren't as stressed later on.


Everything has risk and donkeys aren't nearly as passive as sheep and you may very well see a strong change in personality after they foal. 

I'd rather see them foal on clean bedding than dirt for sure and it would be wise to discuss additional nutrition with your vet.


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