# Lost a chicken, grrr



## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

I had put my search on hold for a LGD thinking I just don't have enough land with only 2 acres total. I have two goats (buck and wether) and soon will be adding some does. I'm already loosing chickens. I worry that when the babies come, they will really draw predators. I know we have coyotes in the woods behind our property. You can hear them at night and the guy just up the road saw them grabbing a chicken out of his unfenced yard.

We re-fenced our one acre pasture with 4 foot field wire. It has electric rope top and bottom to keep my animals off the fence. It was previously just electric rope. Something came out of the woods, over the fence, grabbed a chicken well inside the fence and went back over the fence. All I found was a pile of feathers where the hen was grabbed and a small trail of feathers to the fence.

What is the best way to keep a LGD happy on small property? Take him/her for regular walks? We are on a quiet road but I wouldn't want him/her to think the whole neighborhood was his/hers to guard. 

As for the layout of my property. We have a one acre pasture, a dry or sacrifice paddock, a goat yard, our backyard and front yard. All areas are fenced and the animals are rotated so they get some fresh grass/weed. 

Our front yard (which is approximately 1/2 an acre) is the only part that is still only fenced in electric wire. We have the fence to do it, just need to do it.


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## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

Start out with a pup, under 5 months old. A pup won't know the difference or feel deprived of a larger area. Use electric inside at 18" and on the top of your current fencing.

I started one of my pups in a fairly small area, I don't know maybe 50x50, mostly the side of a hill where a lot of energy was used going up and down for both the dog & goats (they had REAL good muscles!). She was very content for 2 years, and if I hadn't lost one of my Pyrs to cancer & relocated her to my doe pen & other LGD, she would still be there & one of my bucks would be alive today. She's currently on 2 expandable acres now & I would not put her back, she'd feel deprived after having the freedom.

Personally, with your set-up, I would fence your property, put up the electric, and create jump-holes between pastures for her to go from pasture to pasture while allowing the goats to remain in their assigned pasture. Look up "Jump Boxes" for ideas for the jump holes. This will allow her maximum space & coverage. If I were to set-up again this is what I would allow for.

Do not take her for walks, do not take her out of the pen and if you do it should NOT be pleasant (like vet visit for shots etc.). Love on her ONLY inside that pasture. Good things only happen inside there. Provide housing she can climb up on top of to watch everything, toys, bones, balls, anything for amusement while she's young. Allow for a "time out excape proof pen" area for dicipline inside this pasture because she will be a pup for a long time.

It can be done, don't let anyone tell you different, but find out from those who have done it, myself and others who may pipe in with more suggestions on how to do it rather than it cannot be done.

HF


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

We already have electric near the bottom to keep my buck off it. He's a MiniMancha. Both are actually and rub along fence, but the buck will really work to get out so this works for him. The top one is to keep one of my horses off the fence. 

While I do have a goat yard, I don't usually keep the goats in it. They sleep in there and eat in there, but it's also so they have somewhere to get away from the horses if the horses are being too playful. I do like the idea of having a jump hole for when I do need to keep them all off the pasture. 

Thanks!


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

On property that size there is no reason why your LGD cannot guard the stock, the house and YOU as well. You need to do some serious fencing. I would not restrict the LGD to a tiny portion of the two acres. I'd let her run the whole place. If your perimeter fence is strong it should keep her in and she should be able to guard everything. I would be concerned if you kept her penned up there'd be heck to pay later. Digging, aggression/frustration issues/clearing over fence. Its not like you have wolves and lion or bear coming in. And...I'd buy two pups, younger than 4 months of age so they would bond strongly to the stock and you. Just my .02 cents worth. On a place that small, cutting back the property the dog can patrol is only making it smaller. Let her have the whole place...


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Goatress, the dog, or dogs would have access to a little over half of the two acres. The goats are not restricted to the goat yard. That yard is to give the goats somewhere the horses can't go but the goats come and go as they like from their yard, the horses' dry lot and the one acre pasture. 

All of that is fenced to keep in my escape artist of a buck so would probably work well for a dog or two. 

We will be re-fencing the front soon. Once that is done, I will arrange for her or them to have access. The only place they cannot be is my back yard. I have pet dogs. While my dogs are in more than out, I would worry the LGDs would see my dogs as intruders when they were out there. 

As always, I appreciate your input.

I thought I should clarify that where the goats can go, the dog/s will be able to go, too. That is around an acre and a quarter. I also plan to make a jump hole like HF suggested so they have access to the front once that's fenced.


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## CornerstoneAcre (Mar 10, 2011)

I tried to google jump hole...can't find anything. Can somebody post a link for me? I don't mean to hijack, but my property size and set up is quite like yours so I thought maybe this might come in handy here too.


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## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

Google LGD Jump Box, not jump hole.

Here's a link:
http://www.ronanfibers.com/rcf_site_029.htm

Our hole is a bit bigger than the one pictured, I figured if they were running for a predator it would be safer for their toes when they were running quickly. 

When ours were pups, for our jump box (where we feed them), we put a hole on the ground for them to crawl under, the only issue with that at the time was the ducks could go through it. The goats never have. When the dogs got bigger, we closed it off & taught them to jump it. On ours, we framed the lower portion of the fence so they could rest their feet while hovering over the hole. We thought that might be useful for pups or when our dogs got older & less agile. The height, size, and design depends on your size of goats.

HF


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## CornerstoneAcre (Mar 10, 2011)

Thank you happy farmer. Acutally I did google Jump box as well and got battery booster boxes LOL. I did not however put in the LGD part. 
I like the link and that explains it well. I think that will work awesome for us here!! That will allow ours to "guard" the entire pasture - even the bucks.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

I'm glad somebody asked. I couldn't find it either. The goats seriously don't go through that? Interesting. I'll have to give that a try.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

I really don't see how a goat would NOT go through that hole. A sheep might not, but any goat I ever had was really good at finding ways to escape.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

With only that much room I would not go with a large LGD.
A smaller dog would give you warning and better fences would be a better investment.
It should be easy to fence in two acres so that most all predators except airborne ones could be kept out. 
One thing to remember. 
You don't have to feed a fence.
You don't have vet bills for a fence.
And a fence does not sleep, get out, or cause much problems.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

Yeah but fences are sooooo boring.....and they don't protect a darned thing, just keep things in...lolol...


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Goatress, I'm with you on that one. What's another mouth or two?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Goatress said:


> Yeah but fences are sooooo boring.....and they don't protect a darned thing, just keep things in...lolol...


Also pretty good at keeping things out.
I will agree on the boring part but boring can be a good thing sometimes.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Oh, and I do have airborne predators. I lost several young pullets to hawks earlier this year. They can't pick up a full sized hen but they try. At least once a week I see one try. 

But if your main concern is feeding and vet bills, I already have dogs and always have had dogs and always will. One or two more won't put too much of a dent in the wallet.


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## MonsterMalak (Apr 15, 2011)

Thanks for the Jump Hole link.
Habe to say I was going to throw in my 2 cents,,,, But there is already great advise on here. Well done,,haha.

Love the fact that some more serious people have taken to this forum. And that many of the trouble starters have backed off or moved on.

Great info.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

You might also consider electrified poultry netting from Premier
http://www.premier1supplies.com/list.php?mode=list&cat_id=139

A friend of mine uses this for her chickens and ducks, it works great. I've been using the electronet for my sheep and it's still good after years of use.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

HappyFarmer said:


> Google LGD Jump Box, not jump hole.
> 
> Here's a link:
> http://www.ronanfibers.com/rcf_site_029.htm
> ...


Just a thought here, may or may not be an issue. I would be a little worried about the dog catching his paw/s in the wire while going through, and getting hung up. I've had this happen with goats going over fencing. I've also seen dogs get hung up a few times while exiting a crate too fast on the bottom wire. You wouldn't think. Once they are hung up they often panic and don't know how to get themselves out. 
I know my goats would figure it out.


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## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

Good observation Wendle. I had the same thought, I posted about my frame around the hole in my 2nd post on this thread, it is possible to clip those nails in the wire.

I do want to point out it took us several adjustments to get our "hole" the proper height & width for our animals. Anyone trying this I recommend doing a trial hole before making too many of them. You will probably have to make some adjustments to your size & height, also.

HF


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