# Improvest vs. Castration ?



## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Has anyone used Improvest instead of castration. Soon i will be castrating all
my piglets. Just wondering if a shot of Improvest really works. It is suppose to
be an alternative to castration.

Thanks for any help and information on this.

Best,
Gerold.

P.S. some news on Improvest.

http://www.improvac.com/sites/improvac/en-NZ/Pages/technicalinformation.aspx

From the information i have looked at i may not use Improvest. It may cost to much to use. It has to be given in shots two times before butchering.


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## blaineiac (Jan 10, 2010)

From what I remember reading about it... I think you have to be certified to administer it.


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

It reads to me that you can administer it but have to get the prescription from you vet

https://animalhealth.pfizer.com/sites/pahweb/US/EN/Products/Assets/Improvest/index.html


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

Haven't had any reason to castrate and do my best not to pump any poisons. JMO.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

BobbyB said:


> It reads to me that you can administer it but have to get the prescription from you vet
> 
> https://animalhealth.pfizer.com/sites/pahweb/US/EN/Products/Assets/Improvest/index.html


Yes. You have to get it from Vet. Just wondering if any tests have been made public to see if it does work.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Rogo said:


> Haven't had any reason to castrate and do my best not to pump any poisons. JMO.


It is some type of protein that is already in the pigs body. Been approved by
the FDA. Which don't mean a whole lot. anyway just checking to see how this one works.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

blaineiac said:


> From what I remember reading about it... I think you have to be certified to administer it.


I may try it out on a couple pigs and see if it does work.

I may have to have someone to taste test it. I butchered a 400 lb. boar that was less than a year old and could not tell that the meat was tainted.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

gerold said:


> Has anyone used Improvest instead of castration.


There was an interesting note in the medical literature where someone accidentally injected themselves. And yes, it worked.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

gerold said:


> I may have to have someone to taste test it. I butchered a 400 lb. boar that was less than a year old and could not tell that the meat was tainted.


Well was it tainted? Most of the time it isn't.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Improvest will not be available to the general public. The application system will be controlled by trained teams of technicians. I've attended several meetings regarding Improvest, but I can't say much more than that at this point.

Jim


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Ed Norman said:


> Well was it tainted? Most of the time it isn't.


Hi Ed. The boar i butchered tasted ok to me. I couldn't detect any taint. However some people may taste the taint if any is there. For some reason
women can taste boar taint more often than men. 
I plan on doing so more research on Improvest before trying it out.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Lazy J said:


> Improvest will not be available to the general public. The application system will be controlled by trained teams of technicians. I've attended several meetings regarding Improvest, but I can't say much more than that at this point.
> 
> Jim


Thanks for your reply Jim. 
I plan on talking to a few vets about this product. Do you know of any large producers using it. According to one web site it is available in 60 different countries.
It is sold under the name Improvac in other countries. Here in the U.S. you need a 
prescription from veterinarian to get it. It has been in use for 10 years in some countries.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

gerold said:


> Hi Ed. The boar i butchered tasted ok to me. I couldn't detect any taint. However some people may taste the taint if any is there. For some reason
> women can taste boar taint more often than men.
> I plan on doing so more research on Improvest before trying it out.


We're lucky we've never had a bit of taint in any boar we butchered, including the old breeders. That includes people who have bought boars from us for eating, too. 

Is this an injection? The thought of it makes me a bit queasy. Say a little abcess forms at the injection site, preventing complete take-up, months later he is butchered, then I make a nice pot of beans with neck bones. And I lose my manhood. Arrgghh. 

An old Animal Science prof I had was telling us about chemical castration, burdizzos, banding, etc. He said when he tosses the nuts in the bucket, then he is sure that critter is castrated. Everything else is a hope and a guess.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

highlands said:


> There was an interesting note in the medical literature where someone accidentally injected themselves. And yes, it worked.


I don't plan on having anymore children. . Maybe a good birth control tool.
Just kidding of course.
For humans taking it by accident it may cause reproductive physiology problems.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Ed Norman said:


> We're lucky we've never had a bit of taint in any boar we butchered, including the old breeders. That includes people who have bought boars from us for eating, too.
> 
> Is this an injection? The thought of it makes me a bit queasy. Say a little abcess forms at the injection site, preventing complete take-up, months later he is butchered, then I make a nice pot of beans with neck bones. And I lose my manhood. Arrgghh.
> 
> An old Animal Science prof I had was telling us about chemical castration, burdizzos, banding, etc. He said when he tosses the nuts in the bucket, then he is sure that critter is castrated. Everything else is a hope and a guess.


Yes it is an injection. It does not have any affect on people when the pork is butchered. So says the FDA.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== Yes it is an injection. It does not have any affect on people when the pork is butchered. So says the FDA. ===


So says the FDA. That's already a red flag!!


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Had a bit of a giggle at some of the posts:grin:

Improvest isn't something I would even look at let alone use - but then I don't castrate either. And I'm a woman and no boar taint in our pigs as far as I'm concerned or anybody else for that matter.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## Chickenthistle (Jan 16, 2012)

As @highlands said - it does work... and if you get a needle stick and are a guy... you may see first hand. The risk to the injector appears to be one needle stick - you may recover from it as a temporary event... two - your immune system was already primed by the initial injection and now your reaction is significant and long enough - you may very well be "done", so to speak.
It's not a "poison" - it's an immunization that makes the boars immune system capture and destroy some of the hormones produced by the testes (specifically androstenone and skatole). It basically creates a mini-autoimmune response for a period of time post injection.
As for the risk in eating meat that was from a boar "castrated" in this manner - there isn't any (and not because the FDA says so, but because of how immunology works). The immunological method and action of this approach isn't going to work (remain viable) via the oral route. Full stop. That's one of the great things about having stomach acid as an omnivore 
I think it's funny how many of the European countries that outlaw "physical castration" do allow this form of "chemical castration"... but it should really be called "immunological castration" in the end, I suppose.
We go back and forth on what we will do with our piglets this spring... castration is certainly "easier" in terms of just being able to let them all hang out with each other on pasture before heading to the butcher... we then think maybe we will leave one intact and test the meat that way... but gee - for a small operation, that's a mighty expensive "test"... this is certainly a tough (and personal) decision. Nice to know other folks are struggling with it too! (well, not nice, but refreshing)


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Ronney said:


> Had a bit of a giggle at some of the posts:grin:
> 
> Improvest isn't something I would even look at let alone use - but then I don't castrate either. And I'm a woman and no boar taint in our pigs as far as I'm concerned or anybody else for that matter.
> 
> ...


Glad you had a few giggles from the replies Ronnie. So did i. 
Most of the studies done with this product has been conducted by the company that sell it. Seems it has been used in your country for 10 Plus years. 
I think it cost to much and to much trouble to use it so i will just leave this one alone. 

Best to you,
Gerold.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

The commercial piggeries have been using it for some time but it would be almost impossible for the backyard pig owner to obtain it even if they wanted to.

I'm not a greenie, tree hugger or anything like that but my mantra on growing our own food is to poke as little unneccessary stuff into them as possible unless it is for the wellbeing of the animal.

Personally, I think you've made a wise choice in opting to by-pass it.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## Chickenthistle (Jan 16, 2012)

I posted an information chalk-full of thought goodness reply in this thread earlier today and saw a moderation message and it never appeared... Anyone have any idea why? Who are the powers that be and what bribes do I need to send them? It was on topic, no flame, just some facts and questions...


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Chickenthistle said:


> I posted an information chalk-full of thought goodness reply in this thread earlier today and saw a moderation message and it never appeared... Anyone have any idea why? Who are the powers that be and what bribes do I need to send them? It was on topic, no flame, just some facts and questions...


Well I don't know, but I just used AdBlock Plus on Firefox to block your advertisement image in your signature. Maybe that torqued someone.


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## Chickenthistle (Jan 16, 2012)

Ed Norman said:


> Well I don't know, but I just used AdBlock Plus on Firefox to block your advertisement image in your signature. Maybe that torqued someone.


Huh... I figured since the forum supported images in signatures that was approved and encouraged... Not wanting to be a wanker with an ostentatious signature line (which was just the banner image from the top of our website) I have removed the image... Still can't imagine the image would have made the whole post "castrated" (see how I got back on topic).


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Chickenthistle said:


> Huh... I figured since the forum supported images in signatures that was approved and encouraged... Not wanting to be a wanker with an ostentatious signature line (which was just the banner image from the top of our website) I have removed the image... Still can't imagine the image would have made the whole post "castrated" (see how I got back on topic).


I'm not saying that's the problem, I stay out of admin affairs. But personally, I don't care what people look like or shill for so I keep things nice and neat with a bunch of addons. PM a moderator and see what they say.


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## Jayzandra (Mar 23, 2014)

I'm just wondering if anyone here eats chickens that have been vaccinated for Merricks. Because that's basically the same way Iprovest works. As a vaccine, it basically just causes the pigs own immune system to produce it's own antibodies to "fight off" the hormones that produce taint.

I'm really interested in trying it. 

This thread is pretty dang old, so has anyone found any updated info?


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

I am less concerned with eating pork that has been vaccinated than I am with accidentally sticking myself with the needle and sterilizing myself. Iprovest has caused sterility in humans who stuck themselves when giving vaccines. I've given tens of thousands of vaccines. Sometimes you get stuck.

It hasn't been proven yea or nay if the vaccinated pork produces suppressed fertility in consumers. It's too new.

-Walter


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## Shore Farming (Jan 9, 2014)

Jayzandra said:


> I'm just wondering if anyone here eats chickens that have been vaccinated for Merricks. Because that's basically the same way Iprovest works. As a vaccine, it basically just causes the pigs own immune system to produce it's own antibodies to "fight off" the hormones that produce taint.
> 
> I'm really interested in trying it.
> 
> This thread is pretty dang old, so has anyone found any updated info?


We recently had a couple of pure-bred boars whose ears were not breed standard. I asked our vet about obtaining it, so we could use them for our meat biz. We can't afford to take a chance on a boar with our processing fees being so high. She checked and said it is not currently available in the U.S. for use. At least, she couldn't get it.


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