# Building a House, Are we Crazy?



## norcalfarm (Feb 11, 2009)

We are trying to come up with a plan to develop a parcel that we are likely buying. We are currently living on 10 acres that is relatively remote. The land we are currently living on we also bought as bare land so I am familiar with the development of land however, we did a manufactured home at our place now. We found acreage very close to town that we may get at a price that we can afford without a loan. My original goal was to develop it slowly without ever taking a loan and have no mortgage payment. My wife however, wants to be there much quicker. In the meantime, we are moving away from our place out of town and will be renting just a few minutes from the land we hope to buy. This is for many reasons, most of which are totally unrelated. 

Option #1: We have been thinking about the âtiny houseâ concept, as a structure to live in while we build the main residence. I my research, I estimate that I could do it for around $30,000. This appeals to us but we have four young children and we just donât know if we could pull this off especially if we ended up stuck there for years. The advantage with building a tiny house first is that we also would likely not have to finance it or if we did, it would be minimal just to make it happen faster. Once we were in the tiny house, we would no longer be paying rent and could put all of that money toward building the primary residence. Problem here is that I see us potentially living in the tiny house for three years, my wife thinks that we could build a house paying cash faster than this but I think Iâm more of a realist. Even my estimation is probably optimistic. When we are done, the tiny house would become a guest house or large office.

Option #2: Take a construction loan, which I donât know that much about. Use this money to dry in the house and then move to the property, living in the garage/travel trailer while building. Iâm not sure that the bank would allow us to do this, believe they require us to final the house during the loanâs timeframe but it may still be doable depending on the time allotted in the terms of the loan. Then we can use the money saved in rent to do the interior. My initial research indicates that they want it done quickly and Iâm guessing that they want all licensed contractors which would blow our budget, as I hoped to do much of the work myself and using friends with construction experience. 

Option #3: Take a loan to do the entire thing and pay on it for the rest of our lives.

You hear so many stories about construction projects gone bad, people running out of money, taking too long, etc. Hopefully I explained the situation well enough. I just want to do what is best and know that other people have done something similar. I donât mind be inconvenienced for a while if in the end it work out and we love our place. Any advice would be appreciated. Also, has anybody lived in an arrangement like the tiny house with several children for an extended period of time, if so how did it work out or not work out?

Thank you!


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## mike554 (Jun 9, 2012)

If it was me I would do the tiny house. You can plan it to add on as time and money allows. People lived in small homes with kids all their lives not too long ago. I would do anything not to have a mortgage and the control that the bank has with what you are building. I would also get a travel trailer and move to your property while building instead of paying rent. At least you can always sell it when you are done. It will also give you an idea of whether you can live together in a small place. My wife and I lived in ours for about 8 months while finishing our house and we liked it so much we are talking about selling our house when we are completely done and becoming full time RVers for a few years. We will probably build an even smaller house (800 sq. ft. or less) after that. 

M&K TIMBER WORKS - Home


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

I built a barn first, since I needed one anyway. I'm living in the barn while I build the house. It would be more of a challenge if I had to make it comfortable for a family, though. Also, make sure whatever you decide to do is legal in your area.


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## Drizler (Jun 16, 2002)

I hate owing money to banks more than most people but one thing sits quietly in the background here. This is the cheapest time in modern history to borrow money. With that in mind you might just do better overall to just shop up a great rate for a 30 year loan or better yet 15. Pay off the 20% and tell them to stick their mortgage where the sun don't shine. That will save you a pile of money and leave you free to enjoy some of your own life instead of working non stop for years. Take it from me you will lose interest all too soon working a steady job then fighting with and around the weather and seasons for months / years. I love being free of banks but sometimes, times like now, you can almost hire it done cheaper than DIY. If you are some form of government worker / vetern ect you might just be able to swing a super deal with a credit union. A guy I work with and until recently was a financial mess just bought a used truck for $10K using penfed credit union for 1.4% which is fantastic.


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

I'm with MushCreek on this one. Build a barn and build a living space in it, could be a permanent one or temporary and do away with it when house is built. Or start with a tiny house and design it so you can build on if you need to. I'm assuming your going to be doing all the work, if so do you have the experience to do it.

Bob


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## norcalfarm (Feb 11, 2009)

I would go the barn/shop route and live out of it but the municipality will not allow anything to be built without a residence being permitted first. I would pull permits for both but the house would have to be done within a year or you have to renew the permits.

My wife and I are trying to find a way to build something that could become part of the primary house but finding/designing a plan that allows for that is difficult. 

I can do most of the work. I have built many things while living here and helped friends with portions of their houses. I have never taken on something so big as this but I'm good with my hands and what I don't know, I study up on and figure out how to do it, or ask people for help. I would likely contract the foundation and some of the electric. I also own a dozer and backhoe that would help with the process.

Thanks!


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## mike554 (Jun 9, 2012)

I would just build as big a rectangular 1 1/2 story building as you can. That would be pretty easy to add on to, you can just build a bigger structure up against it like a cape with a larger cape connected.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I'd build small, then larger. The 'research' I've done on tiny houses is jaded by the concept of the owners getting someone else to build it. The prices are the 'same' as large houses, on a square foot basis.

Build it yourself, and you can do it for fractions of the 'tiny house' price. I built a 'tiny house', used as a kennel... but up to code, with insulation, finished inside, with a/c and electrics, for just under 10/sq. foot. 

Mike's idea of having high exterior walls is the way to go... so you can add on extensions easily....


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

Without knowing your income, the cost of the land, your occupation, the age and sex of your children, the type of land, credit rating, savings and any other info, it is hard to make a judgement. 

Personally, I am looking to build a 40 X 40 shop with a small condo type on the front.... 2 story. Then double it, and rent out a 2 bay shop with a single level condo and rent out the second story. I may even add a single shop 30 X 40 with a 2 story condo in it. Over a 4 plex gets pricy and enters the commercial property zone in AK.


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## irondale (Oct 3, 2012)

With interest rates right now I would just get a regular loan and get the house done. Building a tiny house I think would just take time, money and energy away from building the house. While I love to be debt free, sometimes getting a loan is the best thing to do. With the pay as you go model you spend all those years paying for the house before you get to live in it. With a loan you get to live in it while you are paying for it. Just my 2 cents.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

My Son built his house 24'x24' roof line, with a storage attic the full length. (trusses were built for storage attic, only cost $120.00 dollars more) Later he can install dormers and finish as bedrooms. He put down plywood in attic for storage. You could finish as a sleeping loft. It is built with full kitchen and an island as the eating area, enough room for a table pushed right up to island with a good sized family room area with fireplace that will be his dining room later. A bedroom and large bath with washer/dryer. He can/will add out the back when needed, a livingroom and another bedroom with bath. The kitchen/dining/family is 13'x24', front to back, left side, bath/bedroom is 10'x20' on the right, bath in front. Small deck outside bedroom at rear, door opens from family room. Start small and add as funds become available but all concentrated on living space. Small cheap sheds as needed until living space is covered....James


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## CJ (May 10, 2002)

We are going to "build as we go". Unless of course we sell our house first, since it's paid for that will fund the new place... but we really need another houes and shop to move into before selling, because we have so much stuff (shop equipment especially) that it'd be impossible to store.

We are fortunate enough to have a large RV, so plan to live in it while we work on the house. I don't ever want to have any debt again, although we ended up buying a larger piece of land than we anticpated, and didn't have quite enough saved up for it, so we did take advantage of the low interest rates that are available right not, but for less than a year. We'll have it paid off the end of next month.

I don't really mind living in the RV, and I don't want to hurry the building process, I'd like to enjoy it and let it "speak to me" while we build.


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## dablack (Jul 21, 2011)

We are building a simple structure that will be the garage later. We are almost dried in. I went with a 26 x 52 first floor with attic trusses upstairs that stick out 4.5' out the front and 1.5' on the back. With a 12/12 pitch roof, that gives a 19' wide room upstairs. we aren't doing dormers to keep it simple. The three bedrooms are in the corners so they all have windows. The bathroom is in the middle with no window. Basically, put up four walls, set trusses and put on a roof. makes for a large house quickly. We have four kids under 10 years old.....


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

Started with a 12 X 16 unfinished cabin, finished the inside, added a 12 X 12 bedroom, and 8 X 12 more kitchen area. We are now at 24 X 16. It is working and we are enjoying doing it ourself and paying as we work. There are only the two of us though. However, we have the loft which sleeps 2 and 2 sofa's and now a full bedroom when company comes. It works.


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

There are plenty of free mobile homes. Get that first, It has all the kitchen, toilet etc done. I would do this as you have children involved. You can live in it while you save to build. Then save, save, save until you have enough to get the structure built and enclosed. Thats what I did. It cost way more than I planned. So double what you estimate. It was all worth it. If you spend money on a barn and putting bathroom and kitchen plumbing stuff in, I see it as a waste of time and money in the end. I bought a big cheap camper to live in and now I was able to sell it and have that money back. Good luck


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## mpwithem (Oct 25, 2012)

farmgal said:


> There are plenty of free mobile homes. Get that first, It has all the kitchen, toilet etc done. I would do this as you have children involved. You can live in it while you save to build. Then save, save, save until you have enough to get the structure built and enclosed. Thats what I did. It cost way more than I planned. So double what you estimate. It was all worth it. If you spend money on a barn and putting bathroom and kitchen plumbing stuff in, I see it as a waste of time and money in the end. I bought a big cheap camper to live in and now I was able to sell it and have that money back. Good luck


Free mobile homes?? Where?


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

I don't know why, but in many areas it's against code to move a mobile home over so many years old. Probably because an older one wouldn't meet code in a number of areas. The only free ones I've seen are way past the point of being usable. That's a problem with mobiles; they become a liability, and it cost more to dispose of one than it's worth.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Start watching craig's list, the local classifieds, etc. 
We got ours for $500 (not free, but close enough!), and it's in really good shape. With any kind of luck, I'll put a "free to a good home" ad in the classifieds for it this time next year...


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

MushCreek said:


> I don't know why, but in many areas it's against code to move a mobile home over so many years old. Probably because an older one wouldn't meet code in a number of areas. The only free ones I've seen are way past the point of being usable. That's a problem with mobiles; they become a liability, and it cost more to dispose of one than it's worth.


You got that right. We can move them here and use in temporary set up, they said for 3-5 years, as long as they see progress on the home. But there were lots of other issues. Inspections, moving fee's, permits,etc. Also, if you had water going into the MH, then you needed a septic, If you carried water in, then you can use an outhouse.







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A MH would have been over kill for me, I had just one 15 y/o, but with 4 little ones, this may be more realistic for you...lol I bought a cheap camper instead. I was able to sell the camper quickly also, and MH are harder to get rid of, as mushcreek stated. Also, no inspection with a camper under 26 feet here. All it needs is to have are holding tanks to be legal temporarily. Another words, no park model types. 

I would not recommend building a room on at a time,its structurally disadvantaged. Save enough to get the whole place framed up properly, then do room to room interior. I needed architecturally approved plans also. They are sorta code strict here altho, the enforcer came here once to inspect the framing so I can insulate and he hasnt been back since.. been a year....lol we have 2 electrical inspections and no plumbing inspection. Septic approved by health department etc. Good luck with everything, its a lot of work, driveways, electrical, inspections, plumbing etc etc, etc. Be diligent and do your homework. I see many homes put together poorly. That is a lot of money to waste on a poorly built home. Fire insurance is really high also on unoccupied building, so plan for that. That is if you can even get it.


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

Plan for the unexpected too, here I had to rent a crane to put in a 3800lbs lvl for the great room. 2' wide by 36',Crane cost an extra 500$. 









The house that cash built....>no mortgage!








I need to update my pics...lol

ymca lent us their scaffolding.


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## simplegirl (Feb 19, 2006)

We struggled with this very situation ourselves and have finally decided we are building a tiny house. We found an Amish builder locally who does wonderful log cabin kit cabins and the size we are looking at is going to be about $10,000.. That only includes the logs, chinking, porch and roof but we can negotiate a price for them to do a bit more. DH can do the finish work.

We did not want a mortgage since we are both around 50 and a mortgage at this age doesn't make sense to us. We still have an old house to tear down and then dirt work, a lagoon, and a foundation to get done before actually beginning construction. A construction loan won't work for us either since they want detailed plans for what we are doing including how much everything will cost that we will do ourselves AND the time frame is too restrictive for us. So, we are doing it and paying as we go. 

One thing about trying to live on the property in an RV... be sure your insurance company will cover you. I have heard of people having trouble getting anyone to cover them in that situation either for the RV or for the liability on the property. Check with your insurance agent before you make a decision.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

You might want to start talking to the banks first. Right now, hardly anyone is loaning on land, or giving construction loans, especially if the land has a mortgage on it.. 

I know.. It took me a lot of shopping and talking to find a place that would give a loan on land.. .

Your credit rating has nothing to do with being able to get a loan on land right now. I've got very good credit... It's just no bank is wanting to take the risk with anyone. It sounds like too many people walked away from land mortgages, and the banks were left holding a lot of bad loans. I have a friend that is a CFO with BOA, and he could do nothing to help me, other than tell me to go to Farm Credit.

If it helps, I edned up with Farm Credit.

We are lucky. The place we are buying has a house on it. The outside is in great shape, the inside.. not so great... We'll do the inside using savings and money as we come up with it.


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

I had one more thing, living in a home you are working on is very hazardous, I would not be happy if I had little ones breathing in this dust. Shop vac-ing is a daily chore and its is lot of work just cleaning after each job, because you live in it, you have to keep it extra clean. Not to mention, we have live wires setting in boxes on the wall. I would be worried if I had a small child that could get at them.


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## barn-apart (Feb 10, 2005)

First. Build what is necessary,(core building) kitchen,bathroom,laundry and make them useable in size. Bedrooms can be added to the core building inexpesnsivly as they have only three walls and roof that leans to the core building.
Just a thought. Has worked for me .


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## jhambley (Nov 21, 2004)

We went with option #1. 

http://tinyhouseblog.com/yourstory/little-house-on-the-prairie-2

We are now in the process of building a larger ranch home to grow old in and continue our homesteading dream.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

When I was looking to build, I looked at a lot of plans for smaller houses that included plans for phased expansion. There are companies that produce them out there.Then you might be able to get the same from a local draftsman (asopposed to an architect. Have you chedcked with the country to see what the smallest house they permit is?


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## norcalfarm (Feb 11, 2009)

Thank you all for the input. I haven't logged in for quite a while and was very happy to see all of the good advice. I have been very busy. We are still in negotiations with the bank and making little progress. I'm not sure that it is going to happen. The whole thing has been very frustrating and I'm not sure that I should even continue trying to force it. Honestly, I've quit thinking about the plan for after we get it so that I don't get my hopes up.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

we built a barn and then added an 800 sq ft apartment in it. LOVE IT! I personally don't care if we ever build a house but hubby wants something bigger. I prefer to be outside and 800 sq ft is easier to keep clean then 1800 or more. :clap:


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

hiddensprings said:


> we built a barn and then added an 800 sq ft apartment in it. LOVE IT! I personally don't care if we ever build a house but hubby wants something bigger. I prefer to be outside and 800 sq ft is easier to keep clean then 1800 or more. :clap:


When you built the barn did you list it as a barn or house for code purposes? I would love to build a barn to live in but would love to do without all of the codes needed to be approved. Would love to know how to get around of that?


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## Bob Huntress (Dec 17, 2012)

If you can start with a barn that has power and water, you can dig a septic system, and if the land is isolated enough, no one should give you grief over the mobile home that no one sees.


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## Tonah (Jan 4, 2013)

gray water systems dont cost much you can also use it for gardening. Yurts dont cost that much I think they are plenty livable. Easy and quick to put up. Not that expensive.
http://www.lodge-tech.net/ is a cheap place.


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## Skyhawk (Jan 5, 2013)

The scam is to trap folks into a $700 per month 30yr mortgage, so you are a slave for your whole life, a well and septic system alone is $20 thou, a compost toilet and rain barrels $1500.
Yes I know a guy in Mich with a Lodge Tech Dome, he lives free and clear sort of back in the woods -but free!


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## Lavendergrl (Sep 15, 2006)

Build a barn. You can get 400 square feet for the price of a tiny house half that size. Build it behind where you would like a house, and the gambrel roof barn will look great behind the house in the future.

Less than 400 sf ft with those kids is a suicide mission.

Have you seen these? www.tuffshed.com

Country type builders diss them, but I've built several and they are almost as good as the ones I've had built. You can get A NICE one for $10,000-$12,000 for the shell.


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## norcalfarm (Feb 11, 2009)

Thank you everyone! I would really like to go the shop/garage route and live in that while we build a house. Problem is that the municipality requires that no structures be built until a house in constructed. I could pull permits on both and just finish shop first but house would have to be finaled within one year. Not very practical. They do allow two residences on this size lot however. That is what made us consider the tiny house. I agree, we will probably be miserable.


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## gimpyrancher (Jun 6, 2010)

NorCalFarm,

I am a member of the Log Home Builders Association. (.org)

You might be interested in visiting http://www.loghomebuilders.org .

These are not kit homes.

This is about the cheapest and most long lasting way to build. Look through the member built houses. 98% of them were built by people that have never built a house before.

I get nothing for this referral except a desire to give you options. I bought my land and will start a 14x14 shed this year and hopefully start my home next year.


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## commonsense (Jun 1, 2008)

mpwithem said:


> Free mobile homes?? Where?


I have one you can have for free


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

We had a construction loan 12 years ago. They required the plans for the house etc before approving the loan. So I don't thnk you could use a construction loan for a home that you do not intend on finishing right away. The loan would not put up the money all at once either. The contractor would have to submit paperwork for different phases of the house before the bank would release the money


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

I wanted to make a little connected wood sheds into houses...
=D
But I don't think it would be to code...
=(


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

I know of two folks who have nice homes they did without code. well, the original structure was code and then after all inspections, they turned it into a house. The first was a pole barn with a dirt floor and a nice loft and electricity. After inspection, they poured a concrete floor and finished the inside. It's a nice little house! The second one was a fairly nice sized metal building with a concrete floor. They had the rough plumbing stubbed up under the slab, with just the thinest layer of concrete on top of it. the garage did have power. Once the final was done, they converted that metal garage into a nice house. still a metal garage from the outside, but a beautiful home inside. and really low taxes too, because as far as the county knows, it's a big garage.


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## gimpyrancher (Jun 6, 2010)

There are still places across the country where there are no building codes. :walk:


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Yep. I've had 13 homes in four states in the past 20 years and not a one of them was (or is currently, for that matter) in an area with building inspections/permitting.


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## norcalfarm (Feb 11, 2009)

Finally after four months of negotiating with the bank that owns the parcel, we are finally in escrow. We still are not sure what route we are going to take. I think that the small house idea is out. We are looking at building a two-story house and only financing the bottom story. Then we will remodel the attic space into a top story out of pocket. I will try to start a new post with pics as soon as it closes escrow and will keep everybody updated on the development. Thanks!


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## Post_Oakie (Aug 20, 2012)

Every situation is different. When we built our passive solar post & beam home 35 years ago, we got a frame up and had it in the dry as quickly as possible. Because of the structure, we were able to put up internal walls after we moved in. One thing that I love about our house is that I milled every stick of lumber in it. I still run a portable sawmill in my spare time for fun & profit.










Of course the bank would laugh you out the door if you applied for a loan to do that, and the insurance folks could never wrap their heads around the fact that the house just needs a little supplemental heat from a wood stove now and then.


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## Hoopjohn (Mar 8, 2013)

Lots of variables at play here.

Banks generally don't lend money to owner/builders unless ones credit is near perfect, and the borrowers have good long term income.
In short, they pretty much have money to lend to people that don't need it.

Banks often will only lend money for building purposes if you go through an approved general building contractor. 

Then, there are zoning & building code issues. 

Building a house (even having a house built) will unquestionably be one of the most stressful times in your life. It will put an enormous strain on everyone involved. 

Certainly, the saying related to building of "everything will take twice as long and cost twice as much" has a profound ring of truth to it.
Frankly, IMHO, the figure of getting into a livable house for $30,000 is an unrealistic figure. In many areas, getting a well, septic system and electricity can run this much. I'm not saying it isn't possible. It just isn't likely.


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## Drizler (Jun 16, 2002)

LittleRedHen said:


> We had a construction loan 12 years ago. They required the plans for the house etc before approving the loan. So I don't thnk you could use a construction loan for a home that you do not intend on finishing right away. The loan would not put up the money all at once either. The contractor would have to submit paperwork for different phases of the house before the bank would release the money


Yea you gotta watch those banksters dealing with construction loans. They demand all sorts of out of place things all out of order,. Ours had us all jammed up demanding some sort of INSURANCE during the construction. Mind you the place was a modular and 3/4 done. They threaten as they always do to shut off the $$. I had to go in there and get ugly (which time) and demand to know exactly what the name of this insurance was since no one heard of it. They couldn't even tell me so I told them they were stuck with the homeowners ins I already had and they backed down. Guess what it was the only requirement these morons were just too stupid to check but real quick to make demands they themselves didn't understand. Then it went on to putting down grass seed. We had lots of REAL work to do and these morons needed grass seed with as always the accompanying threat. I even had to furnish documentation that the place would sustain grass. The farmer I got it from had a good laugh " Pretty good to have to prove grass will grow in the middle of a hay field isn't it?" Same with the well. I got the best well driller in the area and they had him --------ting up some fantastic water survey the likes of which no one had ever seen around here. Then they had me tiling the kitchen / dining room floor for nothing, as always in a serious hurry taking me away from doing things that NEEDED doing. On and on this is how it went to where I finally had all the "drops" paid in and I told them to go to hell from there. The contractor who sold me the modular swore he would never use them again and even lost a sale next year because someone insisted on these guys. That's why you want to deal with a credit union or local bank that people, yes real people like and speak well of. Of course this was 18 years ago during the Go Go mortgage / derivatives (blocks of millions in mortgages traded freely) switcharoo shell game. The best part for all that saleability nonsense they held onto the note themselves to date. Anyways while not as ugly as this these sort of things you may well run up against borrowing construction loan style. You won't have time by yourself to even begin to keep up with their demands in all likelihood so watch out for deadlines and such as they can be a killer. It goes a long way to explaining why folks do up the foundation, cap it and live there till they get more money saved.


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## bigmobrown (Aug 8, 2011)

I don't know if it's legal in your area, but here in Texas as lot of people are building metal buildings with living quarters installed...we call them "barndominiums". My wife and I are going this route but the entire building will be living quarters...30x40 with attached covered porch. Here's a link showing my metal house shell being contructed...in 3 days. [ame]http://youtu.be/kbz6tPuHh8s[/ame] The concrete slab cost $9600 and the metal shell was approx. $20K. The energy effecient windows and doors added another $2K. 

We've added gutters and set up a rainwater catchment system to harvest rainwater from the roof, which is stored in a 2500 tank. 

We plan to have foam insulation sprayed on the roof and walls once we get the interior framing completed.


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